### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 1

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PUMPS NEGOTIATED RULEMAKING WORKING GROUP

Wednesday, March 5, 2014 8:00 a.m.

Reported by: Linda D. Metcalf, RPR/CSR, Capital Reporting Company

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 DOUG BROOKMAN 3 CHARLES POWERS 4 PAUL LIN 5 CHARLES CAPPELLINO 6 GREG CASE 7 MARK HANDZEL 8 ALBERT HUGER 9 ROBERT BARBOUR 10 DOUGLAS POTTS 11 GREG TOWSLEY 12 LOUIS STARR 13 STEVE ROSENSTOCK 14 GARY FERNSTROM 15 TOM ECKMAN 16 MEG WALTNER 17 LUCAS ADIN 18 BETSY KOHL 19 ALLISON WILLIAMS 20 SARAH WIDDER 21 DANIEL WEINTRAUB 22 CALLIE REIS

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued) 2 ROB BOTELER 3 ALEX BOESENBERG 4 LAURA PETRILLO-GROH 5 STEVE THOMPSON 6 JOANNA MAUER 7 JEREMIAH FREEMAN 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (8:09 a.m.) 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Let's begin. Please 4 take your seats. 5 Good morning, everyone, and nice to see you 6 here bright and early on a Wednesday morning. This is 7 the U.S. Department of Energy's Commercial and 8 Industrial Pumps Negotiated Rulemaking Working Group. 9 Today is March 5th, here in Washington, 10 D.C., in the Forrestal Building. This is the second 11 day of the third meeting of the working group. 12 Let's start with doing introductions -- I 13 think I got that right -- around the room. We'll start 14 to my immediate left, and get used to turning these 15 microphones on and off. Please. 16 MR. POWERS: Chuck Powers, Flowserve 17 Corporation. 18 MR. LIN: Paul Lin, Regal Beloit. 19 MR. CASE: Greg Case, Hydraulic Institute. 20 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel, Xylem. 21 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson. 22 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour, TACO.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 5 1 MR. CAPPELLINO: Charlie Cappellino, ITT 2 Corporation. 3 MR. POTTS: Doug Potts, American Water. 4 MR. TOWSLEY: Greg Towsley, Grundfos. 5 MR. STARR: Louis Starr, NEEA. 6 MR. FERNSTROM: California -- Gary 7 Fernstrom, California Investor-owned Utilities, PG&E, 8 Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas and 9 Electric, and the Southern California Gas Company. 10 And it is a pleasure to be here on time this 11 morning. 12 MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer, Appliance 13 Standards Awareness Project. 14 MR. ECKMAN: Tom Eckman, Northwest Power and 15 Conservation Council. It's pleasant to be here 16 instead of on the phone. 17 MS. KOHL: Betsy Kohl, DOE General Counsel. 18 MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Please stand up, Callie. 20 MS. REIS: Callie Reis, Navigant. 21 MS. WIDDER: Sarah Widder, Pacific Northwest 22 National Laboratory.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 6 1 MR. WEINTRAUB: Daniel Weintraub, Navigant. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Alison Williams, Lawrence 3 Berkeley National Laboratory. 4 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler, Nidec. 5 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 6 MS. PETRILLO-GROH: Laura Petrillo- Groh, 7 AHRI. 8 MR. THOMPSON: Steve Thompson, TACO. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Again, thanks to all of you 10 for being here to get an early start on this day. 11 We had a very, very productive day 12 yesterday. By the way, are folks joining us through 13 the Web? 14 PARTICIPANT: Meg is on line. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Welcome, Meg. Glad you could 16 join us. 17 We had a very productive day yesterday. We 18 really covered a lot of ground and I'm very pleased 19 about that progress. 20 Wanting to have a brief discussion here at 21 the outset about what we intend to cover today. Left 22 over from yesterday as we covered at the end of the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 7 1 day was the issue of clean water definition and 2 whether we need that versus, for example, the decision 3 making tree that is included in the packet here or 4 whether there is some hybrid or some other thing that 5 would solve the dilemma that was fully described 6 yesterday. 7 In addition, we hope to cover probably this 8 morning the test metric, further discussion on that. 9 And then in our constant and ongoing quest 10 to establish scope, if you all look at page 3 in your 11 handout, since you've had a chance to sleep on this, 12 see if there's anything additional that we can do 13 today regarding, I guess, principally the items in 14 yellow. 15 We've heard over and over from especially 16 the Energy Efficiency Caucus that they want more data. 17 They seem pretty resolute on what they want in the 18 data. So maybe there is nothing to be done today. 19 However, if there is, that would be -- that 20 would be good. And so we just see if there's any 21 additional conversation can advance that goal. 22 And then finally, the few individuals that

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 8 1 were unable to join us yesterday, Tom Eckman being 2 one, we are glad you could make it here today. You, I 3 believe, said ASRAC is going to be meeting either at 4 the end of March or end of April? 5 MR. ECKMAN: Actually the middle of April. 6 I think the tentative dates were either the 19th of 7 March or April 14th. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas and I were having a 9 brief discussion before we started about whether the 10 working group should be sending anything to ASRAC at 11 this stage. We don't have an established scope yet. 12 We don't have anything akin to a proposal yet. We've 13 made good progress on parameters, exclusions, a 14 variety of things, and I was wondering, looking at 15 both Lucas and Tom, if there's any kind of conveyance 16 that would be beneficial from the working group to 17 ASRAC. 18 Lucas, go ahead. 19 MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. 20 So as Doug stated, I think the impression 21 that we have from the group is that to be able to make 22 a decision on items that are left in yellow, there are

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 9 1 still some more data that we need to collect and look 2 at. I mean, if anyone in the group feels otherwise 3 that they are able to actually make a decision on 4 those things today, we would be interested to know 5 that. 6 But to the extent we are able to make a 7 specific recommendation to the ASRAC, it seems like we 8 would need to actually as a group make a decision on 9 those things before we can specifically recommend that 10 we're going to take them up on a follow-on rulemaking. 11 So it may not be today. It may be at the 12 next meeting we need to do that, but that is something 13 that I personally think that we should be prepared to 14 be able to do if, in fact, we want to pursue any of 15 those items in a follow-on proceeding. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Tom, the ASRAC, typically 17 they'd be meeting something like quarterly or bi18 monthly? 19 MR. ECKMAN: We can meet any time, but the 20 in-person meetings happen about I think we're doing it 21 twice a year, maybe three times a year. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 10 1 MR. ECKMAN: But that's -- they can convene 2 it at any point in time there seems to be a need for 3 action. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Just to confirm that the 5 schedule -- we established, well, our next meeting 6 date for the working group is March 26th-27th. So 7 that's like 21 days, and we hope based on Al Huber's 8 efforts and the efforts of the manufacturer caucus 9 that we'll have a lot of data available for review and 10 discussion at that point. 11 So that would lead me to have the hope and 12 expectation that that would be the time that we would 13 try very hard to establish scope and decide what we're 14 doing about, for example, circulators especially and 15 the other items listed here in yellow. 16 So that's my general thinking about this, 17 and then I think after that we're on our way. We just 18 get right into the nitty-gritty here. 19 MR. ECKMAN: Yes. If the ASRAC meeting were 20 not until the April date, we could take a proposal to 21 them if there is one to take at that point in time for 22 an extended discussion on whatever residual numbers

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 11 1 outside of the current core group we've got. 2 So if it's the 19th, we'll miss that 3 opportunity, but -- 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 5 MR. ECKMAN: -- I think we certainly can have 6 some conversations today about the feasibility once we 7 get a little more discussion on the metrics and what 8 have you. I'd like to have some conversation with 9 some of the manufacturers to see where we are on the 10 follow-on proposal, and maybe we could take something 11 to ASRAC. I don't know. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 13 MR. ECKMAN: I'm still fresh today. 14 (Laughter.) 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Tom. 16 Some of the discussion yesterday was about 17 how it would work, for example. Some of the 18 manufacturers, again, made an appeal as they did in 19 the last meeting to address circulators as a separate 20 matter, a separate rulemaking and how that would work, 21 how the sequencing would work, how if we confine the 22 scope to some combination of the green elements,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 12 1 perhaps some of the yellow elements and excluded 2 circulators and then took them up at the conclusion of 3 this working group's activity, just how that might 4 work, and so that's a definite issue for ASRAC. 5 MR. ECKMAN: Yeah. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 7 MR. ECKMAN: My impression was that was 8 going to be an issue. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, okay. 10 MR. ECKMAN: So we're prepared to take that 11 up. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: So nothing really new there. 13 Okay. Great. 14 I'm not sure which we should do first, which 15 among these we should do first. I think we confirmed 16 yesterday that sanitary and hygienic, we're not likely 17 to gain any ground on that today, correct? 18 PARTICIPANT: Next meeting. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Next meeting. Do we have 20 additional thoughts on clean water definition versus 21 the -- Al Huber. 22 MR. HUBER: We caucused last night, and it

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 13 1 is our opinion the definition needs to be there, but 2 if it's not going to be there, then there is going to 3 have to be a lot of pumps moved into the red category, 4 but there's a lot of pumps that could possible pump 5 clean water, but are not used for clean water that are 6 not on any of these lists. I mean, there's 7 peristaltic pumps. There's lobe pumps, there's rotary 8 gear pumps. There's all kinds of pumps. 9 So either we're going to have to go back and 10 delineate each and every pump, or else we're going to 11 have to have a clean water definition, and I want to 12 make this clear so that everybody understands. We 13 started all of these negotiations and all these things 14 around a definition of clean water. It was in the 15 framework document, and now it has been changed, and 16 we think it, from our side, that's a major change. 17 So now we've got to go back and make sure 18 that we don't miss anything. We weren't too worried 19 about it as long as there was the definition of clean 20 water, but if you remove that, then we've got to go 21 back and do a lot of study, and then we're going to 22 have to come back and do a presentation at the next

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 14 1 meeting about the long list of pumps you've got to 2 exclude. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 4 MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. 5 So at least for DOE's part, I don't think we 6 have any disagreement about what the intended scope is 7 to be. I think it's really just a question at this 8 point of how we're going to identify it clearly in 9 regulatory language. 10 So when we had gone through this process of 11 trying to figure out the best way to specifically 12 identify it taking into account not just what we want 13 to identify it, but how we want to be able to 14 distinguish those things from things that should or 15 should not be covered eventually in enforcement 16 situations, we just wanted to be as clear as possible, 17 and our view had been, well, it's better just to 18 identify whatever exclusions you have and whatever's 19 left is covered, but it's sounding like that's not 20 really at all easy to do. 21 And we understand that, and that's okay. 22 It's just we want to make sure we come up with the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 15 1 right language to identify what is covered, and so I'm 2 not personally opposed to using a clean water 3 definition approach. We just want to come up with the 4 right words, and we might have to do a little more 5 thinking about what that will be. 6 MR. HUBER: Okay. Al Huber, Patterson. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 8 We're doing -- yesterday the room did not 9 favor everybody saying their name before they speak, 10 but I know we'll do better today, but we did well 11 enough, but we're on our pathway. 12 Al Huber. 13 MR. HUBER: Well, in the event that we can 14 agree to a definition of one that's clear, we will go 15 ahead and go back and identify as best we can the 16 types and number and the definition of the number of 17 pumps that would have to be excluded. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 19 MR. HUBER: We have to do one or the other. 20 We can't just leave this open. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. Chuck. 22 MR. POWERS: Yes. I'm going to make a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 16 1 recommendation here. We need to stay focused on the 2 effort. If we go back and get all of our teams, 3 Worldwide and all of the other pump companies, to 4 start spending time on what Al's recommending, all 5 it's going to do is take us away from the goal, right? 6 So the question would be could we vote, 7 could we agree to whatever you want to say that we 8 will have some type of definition of clean water in 9 there? That would put us at ease, maybe not the 10 actual wording yet, but we could possibly vote or 11 agree on the fact that we will have some type of 12 definition in there, and we can allow you all because 13 if you have an idea, put it on paper. Tell us what you 14 think it wants to be. Let's look at your version 15 instead of ours if there's a different version of 16 clean water or whatever it might want to be, gray 17 water and all the other aspects. 18 So there's two pieces. So one is if you're 19 understanding that some type of definition needs to be 20 there, let's agree on that, and then come up with the 21 definition at the next meeting or if you can come up 22 with something today, and we vote on that.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 17 1 That way Al's team, well, aren't spending a 2 lot of time doing stuff now that's going to be no 3 value added. 4 MR. ADIN: So Lucas Adin, DOE. 5 I'm open to doing it that way, and for DOE's 6 part, I don't know if we'd be ready to vote on 7 something today. I mean, I think we need a little 8 more time to think about it. 9 We're happy to make some suggestions at the 10 next meeting. I mean, we'll look at some of the 11 definitions we have for other products and think 12 about, you know, the way this typically works for us 13 and what our concerns are and make some suggestions. 14 But I completely agree that we do not want 15 to be doing a bunch of extra work around something 16 that in theory we should be able to come to an 17 agreement on, and I also don't think that this item 18 should stop or slow work on other things that we 19 clearly need to do to get resolution on scope and 20 other things by the next meeting. 21 So I don't want this to be a distraction. 22 MR. POWERS: So this is Chuck. Sorry.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 18 1 So let me make sure. When you say you don't 2 want to do a vote on it, so you don't want to do a 3 vote on the specific wording? I agree, but could we 4 at least agree and vote so it puts it to bed saying we 5 will have some type of definition? 6 We all agree that we will use some type of 7 definition towards clean water or whatever, and we 8 agree on doing that path. That puts the alternative 9 to bed, and now we focus on what that definition wants 10 to be later. That's fine. 11 Is that what you're okay with? 12 MR. ADIN: Let me make sure I understand 13 what you mean. It sounds like you're saying just 14 agree to the principle or in principle using a single 15 definition to identify clean water pumps as a 16 classification or category of covered products that 17 we're addressing for these standards. Is that 18 basically what you mean? 19 MR. POWERS: That would be my opinion. I 20 don't know if Al and the others, but I think that's 21 what I'm trying to get to. 22 MR. ADIN: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 19 1 MR. POWERS: Al, do you? 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Al says yes. 3 MR. STARR: Louis Starr. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: let me just say for the 5 record, having done a lot of work with DOE over the 6 years, some of this is rather a nuanced construct of 7 the form, the language, all that stuff, all the stuff 8 that the legal folks that labor at length -- but 9 anyway, who did I recognize there? Louis. 10 MR. STARR: So Louis Starr with NEEA. 11 I think also part of the solution might be 12 there's an administrative way. You know, DOE does 13 those cross-walks all the time. I don't know if there 14 could be a cross-walk with this definition in terms of 15 putting it somewhere in there where the intent is 16 there, but the actual regulations are outside of it. 17 So that also would be another solution. So 18 it would encompass what you're trying to do. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Joanna. 20 MS. MAUER: Joanna. 21 Al, could you just give one or two examples 22 of these other pump types that you mentioned? What

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 20 1 are they pumping, just so I have a better sense? 2 MR. HUBER: Well, a lot of -- 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 4 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson. 5 Most of them pump viscous liquids of one 6 type, the ones I described, but we will have to go 7 back and look. I mean, there's a tree of hundreds of 8 different types of pumps, but we're going to have to 9 go back through there and make sure that we have 10 excluded everything that needs to be excluded if we're 11 not going to say clean water. 12 You don't normally pump clean water with a 13 rotary gear pump. You don't pump clean water with a 14 rotary lobe pump. You don't generally do it with a 15 diaphragm pump. You know, there's pumps you don't 16 normally use, but if we're not careful I don't want to 17 get a regulation on a very small niche of the market 18 and put a lot of folks out of business. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg and then we can hear 20 from -- 21 MR. HUBER: That's what we're very concerned 22 about. I want everybody to understand it. We're not

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 21 1 trying to be hardheaded here. We're saying that's 2 fine, and by the way, we are not as a group interested 3 in any cross-walk. We want it in the regulation or we 4 want to go through every possible pump and categorize 5 it, whichever way you want to do it -- 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Hang on Chuck. 7 MR. HUBER: -- but we've got to do this. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg Case and then we're 9 going to hear from Alison. 10 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 11 What we're talking about doing is taking 12 what we call HI 1.1, which has all of our standards 13 and nomenclature and looking at that tree and saying, 14 "Okay. We need to eliminate everything in this tree," 15 because if we're saying this is a clean water -- we 16 want this just for clean water, we're going to have to 17 start pruning all of that stuff back that it wouldn't 18 be a clean water pump. 19 So you know, it was very easy for us when we 20 said all the pumps for clean water. There may be a 21 whole sector of those that we haven't even considered 22 because they'd never be used for clean water

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 22 1 applications -- 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Alison. 3 MR. CASE: -- but we'd have to remove them. 4 MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. 5 I'm wondering can we switch the order sort 6 of? So first we would define end suction close 7 coupled and the other pumps, and then you would only 8 have to exclude the non-water type pumps that also 9 fall into those categories. 10 Would that make it easier? Because then 11 like you wouldn't have -- you know, you would have 12 chemical pumps that are end suction frame mounted but 13 perhaps you wouldn't have some of these other wide 14 universe of pumps. So maybe that would narrow down 15 what you had to exclude. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: I don't know which of you 17 wants to speak for the Caucus. 18 MR. POWERS: Let me just first make one 19 comment. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck, yeah. 21 MR. POWERS: At the end of the day you've 22 got to look back at the basics and say what is the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 23 1 highest volume; what's the best impact to help an 2 efficiency or whatever, right? 3 I mean, you leave it wide open. You could 4 get into peristaltic. You get the heart transfer, 5 right? Go to the hospital. You'll see we call it the 6 rope pump, but peristaltic pump moving blood. And you 7 open up and don't put clean water; you could be adding 8 -- I mean, we're going to have to take the list of 9 products and go across the full gamut. 10 So you know, is that what you also want to 11 tackle and make a list? I mean, I'm picking. You 12 asked for some examples, Joanna. I was just saying 13 what I was trying to say is we have to look at form 14 stainless. We have to go -- there's a whole myriad of 15 products. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: I thought I understood 17 Alison's -- the thrust of her comment. 18 Al, Al Huber. 19 MR. HUBER: Well, now, I'm not in agreement 20 with that, Alison, because you have defined pump. 21 Okay? And it's a very broad definition. If we don't 22 put the clean water in there and we don't define what

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 24 1 we're going to regulate, then everything that's a pump 2 can be regulated. 3 I mean you went very broad on your 4 definition, and that's a fact. That's a very broad 5 definition. It includes even solids and any kind of 6 liquid basically. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin. 8 MR. ADIN: Let me see if I can provide a 9 little bit of clarification there because I understand 10 your concern, Al. What Alison described is more about 11 being concise about exactly which types are, in fact, 12 covered by the standards that we're going to write. 13 So you're right that the pump definition we adopted is 14 very broad, but we would be writing very concise 15 definitions for the types that we're actually setting 16 standards for and restricting the applicability of 17 those standards just to those very specific types. 18 And then with in each configuration, you 19 know, whether it's end suction close coupled or all 20 those types, and within those you could identify, 21 alright, which ones are the clean water ones and which 22 ones are not.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 25 1 I think Alison's question was just whether - 2 - is it easier to make that distinction once you've 3 separated them into those types or is it better just 4 to do it up front and say clean water, not clean 5 water, and then separate them into different types. 6 MR. HUBER: Our problem is we haven't 7 considered this until recently. So we really haven't 8 thought about it. 9 Yeah, I mean, we would have to look at it. 10 I'm not certain. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: I thought yesterday that in 12 discussion we got a pretty clear picture of some of 13 the problems and limitations and really heard clearly 14 why you're attached to clean water as a definition. 15 Mark, you're next. 16 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. 17 Just along the lines, you know, as Al said, 18 we have been following this path for over two and a 19 half, three years, and that's the direction we've 20 communicated to all of our membership. So this is a 21 significant change that we cannot make without a lot 22 of time to consider.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 26 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: So it's clear. I mean, I 3 know it's been said before, but this is not intended 4 to change intent at all. We still expect the scope to 5 be the green and possibly some of the yellow pumps, 6 all clean water pumps, and we're really just talking 7 about how to define it. We completely agree with you 8 guys about what we think the scope is going to be in 9 terms of clean water, and so I'm just basically trying 10 to wonder if we have an OH3 pump that's covered, is it 11 easier to say, well, we just have to exclude some of 12 these chemical pumps? 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Whereas then you don't have 15 to exclude peristaltic pumps and whatever because 16 they're already outside the scope of the standard. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie? Are you all set? 18 Gary. 19 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary representing 20 the California IOUs. 21 I am very empathetic with our friends from 22 industry because we kind of agreed from the start of

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 27 1 our discussions that clean water ought to be the 2 scope, but I don't think any of us realized at the 3 time that, you know, that's really an application and 4 poses a lot of difficulties with respect to how DOE 5 handles this. 6 I have the same issue with swimming pool 7 pumps. Swimming pool pump looks the same as a pump 8 that might be used for other applications. In the 9 small sizes there's no differentiation between those 10 used in residential application and those used in 11 small commercial. 12 So it would be great if DOE could conjure up 13 some way of developing a regulation that gets out the 14 application and resolves this issue for all of us. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Maybe we need some time to 16 continue conjuring this, as you say. I thought 17 Alison's proposal held promise, you know, that kind of 18 a construct that would get you to -- that would 19 continue to narrow the gate, so to speak. 20 But Lucas. 21 MR. ADIN: This is just a quick question, 22 more of a technical question, I guess, about pumps

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 28 1 generally, but my understanding is that the scope is 2 intended to be limited to rotodynamic pumps, but I 3 heard mention peristaltic pumps, which I don't think 4 are rotodynamic. Are they considered rotodynamic 5 pumps? 6 MR. CASE: No. 7 MR. ADIN: So if we're concerned about 8 including pumps like that, then the definition should 9 also specify that they're rotodynamic for the purposes 10 of coverage under the standard. 11 I'm sorry? 12 MR. POWERS: The Europeans -- 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck. 14 MR. POWERS: The EU used those words. You 15 decided not to. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie, follow on. 17 MR. CAPPELLINO: Charlie Cappellino, 18 ITT. 19 We do have an exclusion in the red section 20 here that says positive displacement. So I think by 21 having that entry, I mean, that serves to basically 22 exclude all of the lobe pumps and positive

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 29 1 displacement pumps and focus on the rotodynamic. 2 So I don't know if that's a piece of the 3 solution here or not. Al, I don't know if you want 4 to. 5 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson. 6 I think if we include it in the definition 7 of bare pump maybe or pump, the rotodynamic, I think 8 that would help. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 10 MR. ADIN: I mean, it's a question of 11 whether you have a specific exclusion for positive 12 displacement or you say rotodynamic. If there's only 13 two, you know what I mean? You say one or the other - 14

- 15 MR. HUBER: That's true. 16 MR. ADIN: -- and you've got it. We'll think 17 about the -- 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Let me hear what Alison. 19 MR. ADIN: Alison has a comment. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: If are defining the 21 individual pump types that are covered for the scope 22 of the standard, then I mean it gets back to like we

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 30 1 could define rotodynamic pumps and say they are all 2 included, but each of the pump types that we select 3 for coverage are only going to be rotodynamic. So 4 they're implicitly excluded when we define the 5 individual pump types for coverage. 6 MR. POWERS: This is Chuck again. 7 We spent time on this yesterday. It was 8 clear that that rotodynamic was in the EU, but for 9 some reason we're bound and determined to come up with 10 our own version and continue to convolute. 11 I'm just telling you. We voted on it. I'm 12 just going by what's on paper. So rotodynamic, which 13 as in the EU, was not included in this definition. 14 Just bear with me. So I get it, but my question is we 15 want a clear process here. We don't want to say maybe 16 just end suction on all pumps and, to Alison's point, 17 try to break it down because then you're going to have 18 people later on coming to qualification, "Well, it is 19 this, but it isn't this." 20 If you have some clear phases, gates to go 21 through, there's no guessing later. 22 MR. FERNSTROM: Gary Fernstrom.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 31 1 Every one of these refinements helps, I 2 think. So our discussion about rotodynamic, but there 3 are lots of rotodynamic pumps that aren't necessarily 4 clean water pumps either. So some pumps, for example, 5 that's an interest of mine -- so I hope we could come 6 to some universal solution that doesn't require that 7 we list all kinds of individual exceptions. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 9 MR. ADIN: I agree, Gary. I think in 10 principle we're actually all agreed. I mean, we've 11 been hitting on different pieces of this, but based on 12 the discussion we've just had in the last few minutes, 13 it doesn't sound like we're going to come to an 14 agreement today on -- 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's let this settle a 16 little bit. 17 MR. ADIN: But what I will say is that DOE 18 will for its own part do some more thinking about this 19 since, you know, obviously some of the major concerns 20 about how the language would be constructed is on our 21 side, and so having experience in the application of 22 these definitions and how they might be important in

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 32 1 an enforcement situation, which we've dealt with 2 before, we'll see if we can make some proposals next 3 time that might be okay for this group and that might 4 accomplish this intent that I think we're all in 5 agreement on. 6 And just to -- no, I think that's it. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Yeah, so in this 8 conversation I haven't heard any single person not 9 supportive of the clean water concept. Every single 10 person has said the same thing. So we need to figure 11 out some pathway that's going to satisfy DOE's needs 12 to have something that's enforceable, and we'll just 13 bring it back up when it's timely to do so. 14 But I don't think that your entire caucus 15 should be worried at this point. Okay? 16 Okay. So then should we move now to test 17 metric? Yeah? 18 Lucas, please. Yeah, maybe you can. Go 19 ahead. 20 MR. ADIN: Sure. Thanks, Doug. 21 Just a brief introductory statement, I 22 guess, before we move into this next phase of our

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 33 1 discussion. 2 So this material we're about to present was 3 actually essentially in the same form sent out already 4 to the group. These were the slides that we had 5 provided to the HI group for a more specific 6 explanation of an example of the metric that we had 7 discussed at the last meeting. 8 So we have a couple of additional slides in 9 here, but otherwise it's essentially the same thing. 10 We're just going to talk through in a little bit more 11 detail what that potential metric is, how it might 12 work and a couple of points that the group may need to 13 consider and how it's constructed and used. 14 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Sarah Widder, at the podium. 16 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Is that good? Yes. 17 So as Lucas said, this is going to be 18 similar to the discussion we had last meeting, but 19 hopefully get into a little more detail, although the 20 slides will look the same. I'm going to try and talk 21 through in a little more detail how we might generate 22 the variables that go into the PER equation, and then

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 34 1 also talk about some of the nuances of the 2 construction of the metric and maybe the goal of this 3 discussion or my goal is to hopefully get to a general 4 agreement in the room about what the general metric 5 architecture or framework will look like, maybe even 6 vote on the equation format, but keep those 7 discussions at a high level, and then save discussions 8 regarding how we get those variables and how the 9 standard will work. 10 We can answer those questions if we need to, 11 but if we can agree on what the metric wants to 12 capture, I think that will get us long ways towards 13 being more productive in those subsequent discussions. 14 So here is the slide that we have all seen 15 before just describing the basis for the metric. So 16 you see the pump configurations along the top, the 17 bare pump, bare pump plus motor or driver, and bare 18 pump plus motor and controls, driver and controls. 19 And we wanted to come up with a metric that 20 addressed pumps, the bare pump, and would be sold in 21 any configuration, and the same metric would be 22 applied to, in this construct anyway, the same metric

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 35 1 would be applied to the pump regardless of what metric 2 it was sold in, but different variables would go into 3 the equation to represent the performance. 4 So you'd get different numbers for the same 5 pump, but it would be the same, you know, efficiency 6 or we're going to call it pump energy rating -- I just 7 made that up -- PER. That's what I've been calling 8 it, but we could call it anything, open to 9 suggestions. 10 So this is just another figure that talks 11 about the same thing. We want to capture bare pump 12 energy use, efficiency or energy use in the metric, 13 and that's actually probably most fundamental that we 14 have a representation of the efficiency or energy use 15 of the pump. 16 And so using HI terminology, that would be 17 representative of the MEI or EU. In the EU the MEI is 18 represented by that block, but then we also want to 19 represent in the metric the efficiency or energy use 20 of a motor that would be pared with that pump as it's 21 sold and potentially any controls that would be paired 22 with that pump as it's sold, that bare pump.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 36 1 So this is the general high level framework 2 of the pump efficiency rating as we've considered it 3 so far. There's basically four weighted variables. 4 The weighting is on the left-hand side. It's .25, 5 equally weighted load points in this construct, and 6 then the P1 BEP, P1 .75 BEP, those P variables are 7 representing the power input to the pump, the larger 8 pump plus motor plus controls. So the input power to 9 that pump system at four load points, which would 10 correspond to the light green load points if you were 11 a bare pump or pump plus motor, and the darker green 12 load points moving down a system curve if you were a 13 pump sold with motor and controls. 14 And this is a head flow curve, but we can 15 imagine in our mind where those power numbers, those 16 four power numbers, especially the load points at 50 17 percent and 25 percent would be much lower power 18 numbers. So you would result in a much lower PER 19 rating for that pump. 20 There's a little bit of note on this slide. 21 Then I'll have more details on the other slide. 22 One of the differences of this metric versus

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 37 1 the EEI metric that has been discussed in the EU and 2 also proposed by HI in their framework comments is 3 that there's no denominator. The units of this metric 4 would be horsepower. 5 And it could be beneficial for reasons, for 6 some reasons to normalize this PER, this weighted 7 horsepower rating on the top by some other value on 8 the bottom. That would make it more like an 9 efficiency where you can compare a let's say 70 10 percent efficient large pump to a 70 percent efficient 11 small pump. 12 I mean, it won't be complete comparable and 13 there will still be some speed and flow dependence of 14 that metric. So you can't completely not consider the 15 size, but that's true in other equipment, too. You 16 know, we know that smaller equipment just in general 17 is sometimes less efficient due to clearances and 18 tolerances and things like that. 19 So we could consider doing a denominator 20 here. I have a few slides about what that denominator 21 might be, but I'm going to stop right now and I 22 thought Gary had a question.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 38 1 MR. FERNSTROM: Thank you, Sarah. I do. 2 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 3 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 4 So a lower PER is better? 5 MS. WIDDER: In the way the metric is 6 written right now, lower is better, sort of like golf. 7 MR. FERNSTROM: Oh, okay. Well, you know, 8 if PER is going to mean pump efficiency rating -- 9 MS. WIDDER: Pump energy. Sorry. 10 MR. FERNSTROM: Oh, energy. Okay. 11 MS. WIDDER: I may have misspoke. My 12 mistake. 13 MR. FERNSTROM: You probably didn't. I 14 probably misheard it. I think it would be great if we 15 could get a higher number to be better, but I think 16 this is a very interesting approach and accomplishes a 17 lot of what I'd like to see. 18 MS. WIDDER: Thanks, Gary. 19 And I think if we move -- that's actually 20 one of the benefits potentially of considering a 21 denominator, is that it can now -- higher is better. 22 We can construct a denominator such that higher is

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 39 1 better. 2 So with that, unless there's any other 3 questions, comments, yeah. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck. 5 MR. POWERS: Yeah, the question I have is to 6 go back to the first page. Sorry. Next one down. I'm 7 sorry. 8 MS. WIDDER: This one. 9 MR. POWERS: So when you put the word "pump" 10 in that very first equal sign to the left -- 11 MS. WIDDER: Un-huh. 12 MR. POWERS: -- it really isn't pump. It's 13 the system. 14 MS. WIDDER: It's pump as we have defined it 15 for the purposes of applying standards. 16 MR. POWERS: But I think it will confuse 17 people because it's really if you consider the pump 18 and the motor and controls as the world looks at it 19 and everybody is wire to water, system, a lot of 20 variables. 21 MS. WIDDER: Right. 22 MR. POWERS: I'd have a problem with the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 40 1 word "pump," just to clarify. 2 MS. WIDDER: All right. Lucas, go unless 3 you want me to say something. 4 MR. POWERS: I'd like to add my -- 5 MS. WIDDER: Yes, yes. Sorry, Chuck. 6 MR. POWERS: That's okay. Go on to the next 7 slide if you would please. 8 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 9 MR. POWERS: I don't know if the committee 10 agreed on the .25. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg Case, go ahead. 12 MR. CASE: We have a little bit of an issue. 13 Greg Case, HI. 14 We had a little bit of issue with the .25 15 point on throttle pumps, and you know about that. 16 MS. WIDDER: Yeah, yeah, and actually I 17 think that's an -- those are good. In addition to the 18 denominator there are two other things that I'd like 19 to have discussions about, not all at once hopefully. 20 One will be whether these 25, 50, 75 and 100 percent 21 of BEP flow rates are the right load points or whether 22 they should be different. Should there be four or

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 41 1 three? 2 We can have that discussion. This is just a 3 general construct, and then are the weighting, the .25 4 weighting -- equal weighting, is that appropriate or 5 should we come up with something different? 6 So those are two things to keep in mind, 7 more in the details, I would say, so that we can maybe 8 save this for later. 9 Yeah. 10 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, Edison 11 Electric Institute. 12 On the last slide or on this slide, I 13 submitted some edits that were posted to say instead - 14 - if you go back to the previous slide -- 15 MS. WIDDER: Oh, we should say driver, yes. 16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Diver, please. 17 And the next one, next slide, average input 18 energy and take out electric to be more fuel neutral. 19 MS. WIDDER: Thank you, Steve. 20 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 21 Again, I keep saying this, and it seems 22 never to show up on the slides. Thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 42 1 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: We'll go to Al first and then 3 I'm coming back to Louis. 4 MR. HUBER: Is it not possible for the DOE 5 and/or their consultants to use an MEI for the bare 6 pump and an EEI or whatever you want to call it for 7 the -- the reason we don't want to put 25 percent in 8 there is because at full speed you won't be operating 9 the pump at 25 percent. It's not good for the pump, 10 and it's not within our operating allowances and 11 operating ranges suggested by the Hydraulic Institute 12 and just about every pump manufacturer will not have 13 it in there. 14 Now, I realize you might want it in there if 15 you go on variable speed, but if you're trying to use 16 one formula for everything, then we think it shouldn't 17 be there because at constant speed you wouldn't use 18 it. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. 20 MR. HUBER: So the question is: is there a 21 compelling reason that we only have one formula? 22 MR. FERNSTROM: So this is Gary.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 43 1 I agree with that. I think we'd be better 2 served if we could have more than one metric for 3 different circumstances, but I also understand that 4 may be difficult for DOE to do. 5 MS. WIDDER: Right. So I think there's one 6 just technical point to bring up, is that the .25 7 point, percent of BEP flow, load point is definitely 8 not set in stone, and we actually recognize that it's 9 probably not feasible on all pumps and needs to be 10 revised. So we can just ignore that 25 percent load 11 point. 12 And let's just talk about 50, 75 and 100 and 13 maybe we can consider others, but generally I 14 recognize your comment, Al, that some bare pumps, a 15 metric that just looked at the pump performance might 16 be more representative of the performance of that 17 product as it's being sold into the market. 18 The difficulty, so if we have like an MEI 19 for just bare pumps but then applied something like 20 this PER to pump plus motors and pump plus motor plus 21 controls, I don't know. We'd have to -- I'm not going 22 to speak for what we can do, but a difficulty from a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 44 1 technical perspective or just a logical perspective, 2 it would be difficult to compare the performance of 3 that bare pump to the pumps sold in other 4 configurations. 5 Now, that may or may not be relevant for the 6 purposes of this committee. You guys can decide 7 whether that's important, but you wouldn't be able to 8 capture the benefits of controls for that bare pump. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Louis first. 10 MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr with 11 NEEA. 12 I did something similar with what you did 13 there, except for distribution of hours I took a 14 normal curve. 15 MS. WIDDER: Right. 16 MR. STARR: So like for the weighting 17 factors, for 25 percent I've got like two percent and 18 12 percent for the next factor and 42 for the next one 19 or -- I'm sorry -- 37, 48 and 50. 20 So one way to think of it is if you do that 21 weighting factor, assume that your load curve 22 throughout the hours of the year is just a normal

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 45 1 factor. Then all of a sudden what they are talking 2 about, I mean, the fact they are at 25 percent was 3 three percent. So very little hours are weighted 4 there. 5 Most of the hours are at the next load 6 points of 50 and 75, and it's like 37 percent. So I 7 just sort of added the hours. 8 MS. WIDDER: Right. 9 MR. STARR: I actually can show you what I 10 did. 11 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 12 MR. STARR: But it's a different way of 13 doing it. 14 MS. WIDDER: And I think that makes sense 15 and may also, especially if we considered 50, 75 and 16 100 or maybe 50, 70, 100 and 110, that normal load 17 point would actually then sort of apex over the BEP, 18 which is -- or near it, you know, a little below, but 19 yeah. Go ahead. 20 MR. STARR: Well, in reality I don't know 21 that you necessarily want to get around BEP. You want 22 to get where the operation -- it's like if you were to

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 46 1 go to any application. Where is the VFD? 2 And that's where you'd want to capture most 3 of your time at. 4 MS. WIDDER: Right. 5 MR. STARR: So that's why the normalized 6 curve would -- I mean, essentially what I did is I 7 went in ASHRAE and looked for a building to see where 8 they have, and it basically is a normal curve, what 9 their distribution of hours are at different run 10 points, percentage of load. 11 And so that's why I chose that one, but -- 12 MR. WIDDER: Yeah, makes sense, makes sense. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's let Al follow on. 14 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: And then I'm coming right 16 back to you. 17 Al. 18 MR. HUBER: We have no problem in one metric 19 as long as 25 is not in there. 20 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 21 MR. HUBER: If you want to add 110 -- 22 MS. WIDDER: I'm just going to take it out

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 47 1 right now so we can stop talking about it. 2 MR. HUBER: If you want to add 110, then 3 we're okay with that, too. 4 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 5 MR. HUBER: It's up to you, but the reason 6 110 was in there is that on the bare pumps and/or 7 pumps and motors we see in the field many times that 8 you're running at least ten percent beyond the best 9 efficiency point. 10 It's not really what you want to do, but we 11 see it all the time. 12 MS. WIDDER: Right. 13 MR. HUBER: So it's a reality of the 14 marketplace, and I guess that's what we're trying to 15 reflect. 16 MS. WIDDER: So I -- 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Well, wait a second. 18 MS. WIDDER: Oh, go ahead. Sorry. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Al. That was very 20 helpful. 21 Now, Chuck, please, you're next. Thanks for 22 being patient.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 48 1 MR. POWERS: No problem. The question I 2 have in my earlier days I was a hydraulic designer. 3 Okay? And one of the things that we have to be 4 careful that all the pump guys would deal with is if 5 we're going to focus on BEP, right? Or whatever the 6 ruling is or the spread across that, right, and all of 7 a sudden somebody says, "Well," -- you know, I'll just 8 pick a number -- "we know BEP is 70 percent 9 efficiency. We all agree." 10 And by all the greatest minds in the world 11 maybe you get 70 and a half, maybe 71, whatever, 12 right? Which is a bare pump. Okay? 13 But if all of a sudden somebody says, "Yeah, 14 but we're going to evaluate this pump at .75, so 15 really we want you to change that efficiency, too," 16 you know, when you do curve profiles and hydraulic 17 changes, you know, the load -- what's going to happen 18 is when you impact one point, it's going to change the 19 dynamics on the other, right, and you can change 20 dynamics on NPSH and a lot of factors in these pumps. 21 So what I'd be worried about is if we're 22 just taking the basic measurement, fine, but if we

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 49 1 disqualify a pump because the BEP was okay to the 2 standard but the other points were not, we could 3 create a problem. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: The basic measurement is 5 there, too, Sarah, for ease of application in testing, 6 is it not? 7 MS. WIDDER: I'm not sure I understand. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Go ahead. 9 MR. ADIN: Let me see if I can -- 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 11 MR. ADIN: -- help clarify a little bit. I 12 might be misunderstanding what you're saying, Chuck, 13 but at least the way that we have it up here you would 14 use the overall measurement to compare it. The 15 standard would be based on that overall profile, 16 right? So those, a single number that's generated 17 using those weighted points, and the pump would be 18 compared to that number not each individual point. 19 So it wouldn't -- it wouldn't fail one and 20 pass another. It would have to pass an overall 21 weighted and an overall weighted value. Is that not 22 what you were saying?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 50 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck, please. 2 MR. POWERS: What I'm trying to say is if a 3 product that we design, we start with the best 4 efficiency point, and then you work the pump, you 5 know, with we call it peaking efficiencies or broader 6 curves or we, you know, look at the dynamics of the 7 entire product. 8 And if the peaking point is, you know, .7 9 and the other factors are lower than that obviously, 10 but then when you add them all up, they equal this 11 overall. The problem is if one of the ones down on 12 the right, you know, impede you enough that even 13 though your BEP is perfect, you're going to bring the 14 whole thing down and you're either going to disqualify 15 a pump or there's going to have to be a lot of work, 16 and then you're going to suffer in other areas of the 17 product to make it not as effective as a unit. 18 MR. ADIN: Right. Okay. I understand what 19 you mean now. 20 MR. POWERS: We've got to be careful. I'm 21 not -- 22 MR. ADIN: Right.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 51 1 MR. POWERS: -- I'm just saying we've got to 2 be really careful on how we -- how we qualify this. 3 MR. ADIN: And that's fine. That's 4 something that we'll need to evaluate more closely 5 once we start gathering data on actual pump 6 performance and all that. I mean, what we have up 7 here, you know, as we've stated a number of times, 8 it's just a suggestion. We can deliberate about all 9 of the individual points, how they should be weighted, 10 et cetera, and the actual implications of using a 11 metric like this in terms of how specific pumps would 12 conceivably meet a standard or what have you, but, 13 yeah, that's something we'll just want to evaluate. 14 MR. POWERS: And then I'll just leave it 15 with engineered products. We deal with this every 16 day. 17 MR. ADMIN: Right. 18 MR. POWERS: But standard run of the mill by 19 the thousands, it's a different ballgame. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: So we're talking about a 21 construct here, right? This is the basic frame. 22 MR. ADIN: Well, and just to finish that

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 52 1 point, Doug. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas, please, yes. 3 MR. ADIN: You know, I mean, I think we're 4 all in agreement on this, but you know, we're not 5 concerned just with operation at BEP because pumps 6 don't always operate at BEP. We want something that 7 reflects, you know, the range of conditions under 8 which they'd be used in the real world. So that's 9 really what we're trying to get across, I think. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock, then back 11 to Greg. 12 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 13 Just being the appliance geek that I am I 14 would have to point out that for all motors whether 15 large or small, DOE has decided that the efficiency 16 metric and the test procedure just based on full load, 17 even though a lot of motors are hardly ever used at 18 full load, it varies by product whether it's just one 19 rating point at one loading factor or I'll say a 20 seasonal or a variable load type of thing like SEER 21 for central air conditioners or HSPF. That's more of 22 a seasonal type of thing.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 53 1 But for motors it's a full load efficiency 2 metric and that's it. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg, it seems as though Tom 4 has got a follow-on comment related to Steve's 5 allegation. 6 (Laughter.) 7 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 8 That's not an allegation. That's just a 9 statement of -- 10 MR. BROOKMAN: I'm just kidding. I'm just - 11

- 12 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 13 MR. ROSENSTOCK: I'm wide awake this 14 morning. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: It's a representation of the 16 way this thing works. So, Tom, follow on. Go ahead. 17 MR. ECKMAN: Well, that may be true. I 18 think we have the advantage here of being able to 19 treat this as a system, and I think everybody in this 20 room agrees that the real benefit here is to get the 21 system right, not just the individual components. 22 And this metric allows us to take advantage

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 54 1 of that, and however we decide what those actual 2 points are, the concept here is to be able to take 3 advantage of system efficiencies, and this is a great 4 step forward in order to get that happen. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Several people wish to speak 6 approximately in this order: Greg, maybe Paul, back 7 to Lucas, and then maybe Mark. Greg first. 8 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 9 I was just going to suggest that we hear 10 more of how Sarah wants to make this metric work. We 11 are particularly interested in what the bare pump 12 metric looks like, how you're going to process this 13 data to be able to find a bare pump efficiency level, 14 and that's what all of these comments are really 15 about, and we don't know how you plan to do that yet. 16 So -- 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 18 MR. CASE: -- we may all be speaking a 19 little too early. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: So these comments, the 21 truncated comments, Paul first. 22 MR. LIN: Paul Lin with Regal.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 55 1 Just maybe as a reference, Steve, the fan 2 efficiency rating for the furnace fan does take into 3 account other speeds other than the full rating -- 4 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Understood. Steve 5 Rosenstock. I understood. I was just talking about 6 the match. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: And Lucas. Thanks for the 8 follow-on. 9 MR. ADIN: So the motor standards as I'm 10 sure you're aware are written into statute. So 11 Congress essentially told DOE which metric would have 12 to be used. So in this case we do have more 13 flexibility. We're able to decide which metric we 14 think is appropriate, and so we have that advantage 15 with this product. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve. 17 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thanks. Steve Rosenstock. 18 Yeah, but also DOE has decided now or 19 recently that, you know, it was a SEER metric for 20 central air conditioning. Now it's SEER and EER. So 21 you know. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 56 1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: For certain parts of the 2 country. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: So let's let -- based on 4 Greg's invitation, let's let Sarah keep going. 5 MS. WIDDER: Okay. And based on Greg's 6 question, I will discuss particularly where the 7 variables come from. I do want to keep in mind, and I 8 think getting into those details is important; I do 9 want to keep in mind and come back to maybe at the end 10 of the discussion today what are the appropriate load 11 points; what are the appropriate weightings. 12 I think if we're all okay with the general 13 construct once I've discussed the variables, those 14 types of questions, getting them resolved today would 15 be really great. 16 So and then the denominator, which I will -- 17 do you want to talk about where the variables come 18 from or the denominator? Anybody? Any have -- 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg. 20 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 21 I think we -- you can present it in any form 22 you want.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 57 1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 2 MR. CASE: Or any order, however you're set 3 up, but I think a lot of the questions that we were 4 throwing back were based on our lack of understanding 5 on how you were going to come up with, for lack of a 6 better term, an MEI value. 7 MS. WIDDER: Right. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: So I'd just like to suggest 9 last time we had a lot of back-and-forth like this, 10 and the way we diminished that was to give her a 11 chance to actually present for a while. So let's let 12 Sarah do that. 13 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Can you enlarge that? 15 MS. WIDDER: Yep, I will do that. I will 16 make it large. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: And let's let her present 18 however much she wants to present, Sarah. 19 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I think the way that 20 I'm going to do this is just the way the slides are 21 laid out now. I'm going to talk through the 22 denominator options because that is one of the, I

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 58 1 think, larger issues about what we want to have, 2 higher better or lower better and what that 3 denominator is. 4 And then I'll talk through some example of 5 where the variables would come from and how bare pump 6 performance is captured for the different I'll just 7 call them equipment types for now, bare pump, bare 8 pump plus motor - driver, bare pump plus driver and 9 controls. 10 So just thinking about the denominator for a 11 little bit, there's a couple of things to consider 12 when you're comparing having a denominator versus not 13 having a denominator. We can make the final PER, 14 whatever we determine to call it, the final metric 15 dimensionless if we use a denominator. It becomes 16 more like an efficiency and higher is better. 17 The denominator -- the no denominator 18 approach that we discussed earlier is a very strong 19 function of speed and flow. You know, with larger 20 pumps you're going to use more energy to move more 21 fluid. That's obvious, and if we use a denominator 22 that is representative of either hydraulic pump power

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 59 1 for that pump or something that scales the metric to 2 the size of the pump, we can have it be a weaker 3 function of flow and specific speed. It won't be 4 removed entirely, but just like efficiency, it's not 5 removed entirely. Larger equipment is very often more 6 efficient because of economies of scale. 7 The benefit of having a denominator is it 8 would make the EEI or the PER, this metric, more 9 comparable across pumps of different sizes, whereas 10 the no denominator approach, the same pump, a larger 11 pump and a smaller pump could maybe serve the same 12 design intent, design purpose, but the larger pump 13 would have a larger PER. And so that would just be 14 something -- I mean there's intelligent people 15 specking pumps hopefully and they can recognize that, 16 and the PER is used to demonstrate compliance with the 17 standard, but it would be more difficult to compare 18 the PER for a pump that was slightly larger or 19 slightly smaller that could meet the same design 20 intent or the same application. 21 But the negative part of having a 22 denominator is the way the EU has proposed to have an

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 60 1 EEI is the denominator is a reference pump efficiency. 2 So if we go back here, we would have the denominator 3 be just P ref., P-1 ref., and it would represent a 4 nominal motor efficiency, any efficiency that we want 5 to account for standardized controls, and a nominal 6 pump efficiency, which would be like the baseline MEI 7 if we were going to set a pump efficiency or pump 8 power input at BEP. 9 So it would be pump power input accounting 10 for motor efficiency and standardized driver 11 efficiencies. So it would just be like a baseline 12 value for a pump of that size and specific speed. 13 And it will be analytically more difficult 14 for us to do that because we don't have the MEI to 15 start with. So there's a couple of options that we 16 can use to get around that. So these are four options 17 that we have just been kicking around and thinking 18 about. 19 The first is power -- this is similar to 20 what HI proposed in their comments -- power 21 consumption of the same pump in an uncontrolled 22 system. We might as well really not talk about that

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 61 1 one because it only represents the benefit of controls 2 for that pump. It normalizes out the performance of 3 that given pump, and so it's not really helpful for 4 comparing one pump to another. So we'll just write 5 that one off. 6 The next one is reference shaft power for a 7 minimally compliant bare pump with minimally compliant 8 motor. This is what's done in the EU. It does result 9 in a value between zero and one where higher is 10 better, and it clearly indicates the performance of 11 the pump relative to some established baseline. 12 The difficulty is that it requires 13 designation of that minimally compliant pump 14 inherently. So that's where the MEI would come in 15 potentially to this metric, and depending on how we 16 set it, it may over or under represent the baseline 17 performance for some pumps. 18 But that is definitely a viable approach. 19 Some of these other approaches are similar to that. So 20 instead of taking a reference shaft power we could 21 basically set the reference to be a market average. So 22 look out at pump performance generally as we see it in

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 62 1 the United States for the scope of pumps we're 2 considering for this rulemaking, and then tie it to an 3 either market average motor or a minimally compliant 4 motor. 5 Then the EEI now is not necessarily zero to 6 one, but it indicates the performance of the pump 7 relative to the rest of the market. So it's more 8 comparable to where we are right now. The negative 9 thing is that it ties the pump market to a point in 10 time or it would need to be revised periodically, and 11 so it's not as clean, I would say, as the previous 12 approach. 13 And then the last approach, which I would 14 say is the easiest to implement, but is theoretically 15 less logical is having a denominator of just the 16 tested pump's hydraulic power output at BEP, and so 17 it's a way of normalizing to the size and the power 18 output of the pump, but we don't then need that 19 reference pump performance or the pump efficiency sort 20 of is now no longer in the denominator. You still are 21 accounting for the pump efficiency in the numerator, 22 in the power inputs, but you have -- so if we go back

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 63 1 to this equation, these P-1 across the top would be 2 the power input to the pump inclusive of motors and 3 controls and then underneath would be hydraulic power 4 at BEP. 5 So in a way it would be a weighted 6 efficiency of the entire system. Since pump 7 efficiency is input power over hydraulic output power, 8 and the nice thing, it's just analytically a little 9 bit easier because we don't need to specify that MEI 10 first, but it would not be zero to one necessarily. It 11 might be a little bit -- it won't be zero to one 12 because you can't get 100 percent. 13 But that's sort of like efficiency, and then 14 there would be lower PER ratings for smaller pumps 15 just because lower capacity equipment is inherently 16 less efficient, but that's again something we deal 17 with with other equipment and efficiency metrics. 18 So those are the denominator options. I 19 don't know if we want to have -- it looks like we want 20 to have some discussion about that. But we will get 21 to the variables, Greg, I promise. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 64 1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 2 Again, I know you talked about Europe, but 3 are they doing the same thing for non-electric drivers 4 in these equations? 5 MS. WIDDER: I do not believe that they are 6 addressing non-electric drivers. 7 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. Because I believe 8 that -- again, Steve Rosenstock, EEI -- that again, 9 these equations should just be modified mainly 10 compliant driver as well and it be any driver, and you 11 could just still use these formulas. 12 And the second thing, and again, the other 13 thing I wanted to say is you're still assuming that 14 the numerator is what you had on the previous page, 15 right? This is just the denominator for the whole 16 formula. 17 MS. WIDDER: Right, right. 18 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Because the reason I ask 19 that is that, again, if as we go down this path it 20 could be that, you know, if we do different metrics 21 for different configurations, one metric for bare 22 pump, one metric for bare pump plus driver, a third

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 65 1 metric for bare pump plus driver plus controls, some 2 of these denominators might change based on the 3 manufactured configuration, right? 4 MS. WIDDER: If we wanted to consider 5 different metrics for each pump configuration, 6 certainly the numerator and denominator or lack of 7 denominator could be different for those cases. This 8 is, as you said, considering the same numerator, and 9 then any one of these denominators for all three 10 configurations. 11 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. 12 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 14 MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr with 15 NEEA. 16 I had a thought about -- mine was probably 17 too simple for the denominator option, but I 18 envisioned just using the same weighting factor for a 19 pump that you throttle and you divide it by a pump 20 that has VFD, and you divide those two. Then you have 21 an MEI. 22 So if you had it with just a bare pump,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 66 1 you'd have an MEI rating and then you had it with a 2 VFD, you would see what the factor is with the VFD. So 3 it splits the motor. It gets the motor separated, and 4 the VFD and the motor are together separate from the 5 pump. 6 MS. WIDDER: Right. 7 MR. STARR: So it kind of gives the market 8 the idea here's the benefit of what a VFD is, and then 9 to get more detailed information about motors you can 10 get some of those elements that are separate from the 11 pump. So you just get a pump and then you look at the 12 other elements separately. 13 MS. WIDDER: And that's just how the EU is 14 proposing to do it. They have the MEI, which is 15 representative of pump performance, and then the EEI 16 is just a you described it, a controlled -- the 17 controlled power input at those load points, and then 18 the uncontrolled system at those same load points, and 19 so it's zero to one, benefits of motor and controls, 20 and that's actually the top. 21 I mean it could be we could modify the top 22 and the top one to have not just one power but, you

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 67 1 know, power at each of the loading points. So this 2 top row here could represent that power consumption at 3 the same pump in an uncontrolled system, but then it's 4 like you said, just representative of the benefit of 5 motor controls for that pump. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Paul Lin. 7 MR. LIN: Maybe just a comment. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: A little closer. 9 MR. LIN: Maybe just a comment from other 10 rulemakings. A denominator option, a max flow rate so 11 you'd normalize it to performance, that's been ruled 12 out or looked at? 13 MS. WIDDER: A max flow rate? 14 MR. LIN: Right. So with the pump you 15 divide it up as a denominator? 16 MS. WIDDER: Like flow in gallons? 17 MR. LIN: Right. 18 MS. WIDDER: That, so then we would wind up 19 with units of horsepower per gallons. 20 MR. LIN: Right. 21 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Yep, that could 22 definitely be considered also. It would not account

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 68 1 for different head -- the different heads that's 2 provided by different designs of pumps, but that's 3 very similar maybe to the bottom row where we're 4 talking about hydraulic output. It could be maximum 5 hydraulic output or hydraulic output at BEP where 6 that's just the flow and head condition at that BEP 7 point or maximum hydraulic output point. 8 But, yes, it could be flow also. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg. 10 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 11 The problem there would be our data 12 collection so far doesn't allow you to have maximum 13 flow rate. 14 MS. WIDDER: Right. I mean, yes. So for 15 maximum flow rate, we would have to collect more data 16 in order to do analysis. 17 MR. CASE: Or maximum horsepower or -- yeah. 18 MS. WIDDER: Well, and we have been talking 19 a lot about BEP, which is another reason we are 20 sticking around that -- 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis Starr and then we're 22 back to you Chuck.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 69 1 MR. STARR: One of things I envision is that 2 if you have a number of pieces of information that are 3 kind of very modular, like MEI, you just have a pump 4 and then you have something that indicates what the 5 VFD and the driver are together, and then you have 6 another thing that -- I mean, you can communicate on 7 many different levels like where you have kilowatt 8 hours a year and then there's different pieces that 9 you could put together so like a design engineer or 10 actually not even a design engineer, but someone 11 that's maybe a buying, a procuring agent in a company. 12 MS. WIDDER: Right. 13 MR. STARR: Or they could have a number of 14 elements that sort of on many ways could communicate 15 many different aspects. So I think instead of trying 16 to capture it all in one, I mean, you would use one 17 metric maybe but have different information that kind 18 of informs the buyer whether that be an engineer or 19 someone that's not. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck Powers. 21 MR. POWERS: Yes. A question, Sarah. Is 22 the MEI, just looking at my notes, related to the pump

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 70 1 type, the size, which was the flow at BEP, specific 2 speed, which then takes on the characteristics of -- 3 MS. WIDDER: Un-huh. 4 MR. POWERS: -- hydraulics and the 5 variations, which by the way also takes into 6 consideration the head in a way, right? And then 7 there is a prediction on that on efficiency cutoff, 8 right? 9 And then, again, that's at the part load, 10 full load, and over. What concerns me is some of the 11 statements you made that I get the impression that the 12 formula is, the way you want it, that there's some 13 huge gain on pump, and it's really the system in 14 total. You know, there might be bigger gains between 15 the motor and the drive system and all. The pump may 16 have minor, but at the end of the day it's the system, 17 right? 18 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. So you mean that there's 19 potentially better -- there's more opportunity for 20 improvement from the motor and controls than from just 21 the pump. 22 MR. POWERS: Right, and the way you related

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 71 1 it or some comments you made that, you know, that it 2 indicates performance of the pump that would improve, 3 and I'm worried about people think there's huge gains 4 or something, right? 5 MS. WIDDER: I think that's a really good 6 point and a really excellent segue into the next point 7 where we talk about where the variables come from, but 8 first Steve had a comment. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: One more quick, Steve. 10 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 11 Again, there was -- and I'm just thinking 12 about Gary's charts from yesterday -- it was GPM per 13 kilowatt hour or GPM per BTU is another possible way 14 of -- again, we're throwing out all of these possible 15 metrics. 16 MS. WIDDER: Un-huh. 17 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Again, for a pump plus a 18 driver, that could be another possibility or you have 19 -- again, he showed the system curves. You know, we 20 have a fan efficiency rating now -- 21 MS. WIDDER: Right. 22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: -- at ASHRAE, which is

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 72 1 basically a system curve. So that could also be 2 another -- again, as another possibility down the line 3 for consideration by the group. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: So you were making a segue to 5 the next slide. 6 MS. WIDDER: Right. I'm just going to 7 respond to that really quickly. So, yes, we certainly 8 could consider essentially flipping the metric and 9 then something like hydraulic output power would go on 10 the top or just flow. Again, we'd need to account for 11 head in some way because those are both very 12 important. So I would maybe recommend a hydraulic 13 output power on the top and then the load points on 14 the bottom. 15 But I think that we'll keep those all in 16 mind. We've thought somewhat about this metric and 17 think that this accomplishes our purposes pretty well 18 for analysis, but I think that if there's suggestions 19 particularly about why a, for example, gallons per BTU 20 metric would be beneficial, that is what would be 21 helpful. 22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: I'll explain.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 73 1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 3 You know, for the consumers, it's a metric 4 that the consumer will be able to understand, be able 5 to do cross-comparisons against at an easily -- you 6 know, for example, you have a system that needs 100 7 gallons per minute of flow. 8 MS. WIDDER: Un-huh. 9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: You have various options, 10 whether it's, you know, non-electric or electric 11 driver. Okay. System A does 100 gallons per minute 12 per kilowatt hour. System B does 50 gallons per 13 minute per kilowatt hour. 14 Well, okay. System B using that metric will 15 use twice as much energy as System A. The same on the 16 BTU side, it's a way for a customer to easily cross17 compare products. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: In terms that they'll 20 understand. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 22 I think we want to keep staying at the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 74 1 conceptual level here to the extent possible. 2 Al Huber. 3 MR. HUBER: In general -- 4 MR. BROOKMAN: In general. 5 MR. HUBER: In general, the -- 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Although ... 7 MR. HUBER: -- pump industry prefers to stay 8 as closely aligned as possible with what the EU has 9 done -- 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. 11 MR. HUBER: -- for a lot of reasons. One of 12 the large ones is that we all manufacture on both 13 continents or many of us do; a great deal of us do. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 15 MR. HUBER: And we would try to -- we would 16 like to see the metrics as close as possible. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. 18 MR. HUBER: Trying to rate something at 19 BTUs, while that may be great for circulators, which 20 are used in heating and cooling, not necessarily very 21 good for municipal, industrial and other applications. 22 So what we're trying to do here, I think, is

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 75 1 come up with a metric that is good for all 2 applications, and what this does, it compares the same 3 pump type with the same pump type. If Pump A from 4 Company B are the same type pumps, then they're both 5 rated. You can look at -- you could look at their MEI 6 or whatever you want to call it, PER, and if one is 7 better than the other one, then you can make a 8 determination that, hey, I'd rather have this one 9 because it's got a better energy rating. 10 And if one is better than the other one, 11 then you can make a determination that, hey, I'd 12 rather have this one because it has got a better 13 energy rating. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 15 MR. HUBER: And I think that's what we're 16 after here. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 18 MR. HUBER: But we need a -- because there's 19 a lot of different applications and a lot of ways you 20 can measure things. It would be better, we believe, 21 to be consistent. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 76 1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So now I'm going to move 2 on to the details of where the MEI fits in and where 3 some of these variables are coming from. Unfortunately 4 I'm going to have to talk a lot, and I don't have 5 really detailed slides at this point. Maybe I'll use 6 that whiteboard, too, to make sure that we all 7 understand how this might work. 8 I'm going to continue to use the equation at 9 least general construct that is represented on this 10 slide, recognizing that some of the same variables 11 could fit into another construct the same way. 12 So for a bare pump, if we consider -- for a 13 bare pump, if we consider the PER metric wanting to 14 capture the pump performance and standardized motor 15 efficiency and maybe controls, the only thing we're 16 going to measure is the pump performance data. 17 These two things will be from a table and 18 will just be applied into the equation. Do I have an 19 example of that? Yes, okay. 20 So we'll use this one. So in this equation, 21 the P1 value that we saw before has now been split 22 into a numerator and a denominator. These numerators

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 77 1 are pump shaft power input at the load points divided 2 by the motor efficiency. 3 And this could be motor efficiency at these 4 particular load points or in the case of a bare pump 5 what would happen or what we're considering is just 6 using the pump power input at the load points that we 7 determine and taking the nominal full load efficiency 8 from DOE's CFR standard table based on the either 120 9 percent plus of the BEP flow rate or hydraulic output. 10 We can decide how to size the motor in a standardized 11 way so everyone is picking the same number, but let's 12 say it's 93 percent efficient, minimally compliant 13 motor would be paired with this pump. 14 So we would plug 93 percent into each of 15 those motor efficiency variables. The pump power 16 would be different and measured for that pump using 17 something like HI's 14.6 or the new 40.6, sweeping the 18 pump curve just the way it's always done, and then the 19 weightings would be applied based on what we decide 20 they should be. 21 And you just add that all up and that's your 22 PER for a bare pump. You just test the pump just like

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 78 1 you always do, but we're inserting pump power input 2 instead of efficiency. 3 And if we were to include a denominator, 4 say, denominator is hydraulic power, then now you have 5 -- now you're creating much more like a weighted 6 efficiency metric. 7 So that is what would happen for the bare 8 pump. If we go to a pump plus motor -- yep, there we 9 go -- okay. So a pump plus motor, bare pump plus 10 motor, it would be very, very similar except for now 11 we're taking the manufacturer motor efficiency that 12 the pump is paired with, and so if we go back to this 13 equation, instead of 93 percent we would look up the 14 name plate efficiency of the pump -- of the motor 15 that's paired with that bare pump. Let's say it's a 16 95 percent NEMA efficiency in this case. 17 Now we have 95 percent on the denominator in 18 each of those four fractions, and our PER without a 19 denominator is lower, which is better in this 20 construct. 21 But if we -- yes, Steve, you had a question. 22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 79 1 My only thought was at different loadings, 2 so the motor efficiency will also be lower. 3 MS. WIDDER: That is an excellent point, and 4 something that we have definitely considered. I don't 5 know if it's on here. So that's something we've 6 talked about a lot. There is a couple ways that we 7 can account for that. I'll discuss all three of them, 8 and then the committee can consider it, and then I'm 9 going to go to the motor and controls case just so we 10 can finish the examples, and then sort of open it up. 11 So for the motor there's a number of ways we 12 could account for losses. One is we don't account for 13 losses. We just assume they're zero, that there's the 14 same efficiency at all the load points. We know 15 that's inaccurate, but it's applied consistently to 16 all pumps or all pump plus motors. So it's consistent 17 among pumps. It's also the easiest. 18 Another approach that we've considered 19 that's minimally burdensome is to have a standardized 20 loss equation. It would be a little bit more 21 accurate. You would account for the losses as you 22 move down the - down loading on the motor, and it

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 80 1 would still be consistent across all pumps or pumps 2 plus motors. You just have some equation that you 3 plus the full load efficiency into and get, you know, 4 essentially get what the reduction is at these 5 different load points. 6 It would improve accuracy a little bit, but 7 you know, you wouldn't be able to differentiate 8 different efficiency curves for different motors. 9 The most burdensome approach obviously is to 10 test your motor at these load points. That is another 11 thing that could be considered. It would increase 12 burden significantly, and in the nameplate, in the 13 cases where you can just use the motor and nameplate, 14 actually no motor testing is required at all, even if 15 you're selling a pump and a motor. You can just look 16 up the motor nameplate, put it on your pump, and away 17 you go. 18 Yes. 19 MR. STARR: Would there be possibly another 20 option, is that for different motor technologies you 21 had different equations? 22 MR. BROOKMAN: That was Louis Starr.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 81 1 MS. WIDDER: Yes, that is certainly another 2 option, that for different motor technologies we could 3 have different loss curves if that was warranted and 4 we had sufficient data to create said loss curves. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: It's kind of like we should 6 be trying to list the characteristics, and we're 7 trying to -- 8 MS. WIDDER: List the characteristics? 9 MR. BROOKMAN: That we're trying to put 10 together here. 11 MS. WIDDER: Oh, yes. No, I have a list at 12 the end. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 14 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Because we keep diving deep 16 and then surfacing. 17 MS. WIDDER: We do, and I have all these. 18 We'll come back to it. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 20 MS. WIDDER: We will. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. 22 MS. WIDDER: And, Lucas, did you want to add

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 82 1 something or can I -- okay. 2 I'm going to move on to the motor, pump and 3 controls example. Then we'll be done and then we'll 4 get to that summary slide and be able to have more 5 discussion about these things. 6 So bare pump, motor, and controls, same as 7 the bare pump plus motor case where we plug in pump 8 power input in the numerator of these fractions. The 9 drive efficiency in this denominator is 10 representative. So this slide is -- I wish I had the 11 other slides -- this slide could be a little bit 12 different. 13 So I'm going to change it as we're talking 14 here because I think that will help us. So let me 15 increase this so you can see it. 16 There's a couple ways that this could work. 17 Let me go up. Number one is just like this. This 18 drive efficiency is an efficiency representative of 19 the motor and the drive together, applied to the pump 20 power input to get a power input to the system. That's 21 what the fraction is representative of at each of 22 those load points and weighted.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 83 1 To do that we would need drive efficiency, 2 which is -- there's a test procedure that AHRI has 3 developed that we've discussed previously, AHRI-1210. 4 That data is not widely available yet. It's not 5 widely used, and so that might be a technical hurdle 6 towards implementing something like this. 7 Another approach that we've considered is 8 instead to continue to have this efficiency be 9 representative of the motor -- oh, that's not what I 10 meant to do -- anyways, have this efficiency be 11 representative of the motor and then take this whole 12 thing and then multiply it by a -- I came up with the 13 term "load control factor," but essentially use the 14 affinity laws to determine what the reduced -- what 15 the benefit of controls would be, and it's a purely 16 analytical approach for representing the benefit of 17 controls in the PER metric. 18 So you can think through how that might go. 19 We can take the power input to the pump. BEP would 20 stay the same. The power input at .75 would be 21 reduced by the cube of the speed essentially. Same at 22 the other reduced loading points. The motor

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 84 1 efficiency would either be the same or adjusted based 2 on our loss equation, and a ratio of those two values 3 would come up with some savings you get from applying 4 controls. 5 In a couple example calculations I have done 6 just follow the affinity laws and these loading 7 points, it's about .46 or .5, and so as a purely 8 analytical approach to representing the benefit of 9 controls, you could just do what we did for -- take 10 what you would get if you were just selling the bare 11 pump as a pump plus motor, and if you're putting 12 controls on and you're selling it with controls, just 13 multiply the whole thing by .46, .5. We can determine 14 what the appropriate load control factor is. You have 15 a better number, and that's what you sell your pump 16 under. 17 We could still include a denominator, but 18 essentially its' a credit for controls. The benefit 19 is it's easy to apply. We could have different load 20 control factors for different control technologies. 21 We'd have to come up with a list of what those control 22 technologies were that we wanted to account for, but

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 85 1 that could be done. 2 The negative thing is there's no real 3 verification of the control performance, and there's 4 no differentiation between a better performing or 5 worse performing control of the same type. So this is 6 a description of essentially the three, you know, back 7 to talking about how we might characterize drive 8 performance with controls. 9 I just talked through the calculation method 10 at the top where we have some factor we account for, 11 controls performance with A. B would be something 12 similar to applying AHRI 1210 where we have drive, 13 rated drive efficiency in some format, and that goes 14 in the denominator, and then C is, of course, wire to 15 water testing. We're familiar with that, but 16 recognize that it's extremely burdensome considering 17 all the different combinations of equipment that one 18 could have. 19 So that is how we've been thinking about the 20 metric and where the variables would come from. One 21 thing I will say about how MEI fits into this is the 22 way MEI -- I mean, aside from the fact that we might

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 86 1 have a reference MEI in the denominator, in the 2 numerator MEI is essentially pump efficiency at three 3 load points. 4 And I mean, if we really wanted to have MEI 5 in there, we could say instead of BEP, it would be MEI 6 BEP divided by pump hydraulic output or something to 7 get the power input, right? Or times; it would be 8 times pump hydraulic output because it's efficiency 9 times the pump's hydraulic output would get you the 10 power rating. 11 So Alison is trying to say something. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: (Speaking from an unmiked 13 location.) 14 MS. WIDDER: Oh, it is? 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Find a microphone. 16 MS. WIDDER: Alison says it's in one of the 17 next slides. Oh, here we go. 18 So, yeah, this is very small. So let me 19 make it a little bit bigger so we can see it. 20 So this is the same PER equation, but it's 21 sort of rearranged where now pump efficiency is on the 22 bottom and hydraulic output power is on the top with

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 87 1 the motor efficiency. So this is the same equation 2 for a pump, a bare pump or pump plus motor, but then 3 now you're seeing where the pump efficiency could fit 4 in instead of just pump input power. 5 So now I'm going to go back to these issues 6 that I told you I was keeping a list of, Doug, and we 7 can talk about any one of them. We welcome comments. 8 So these are the things that I think we need to 9 discuss. 10 I'm going to add the motor losses right now. 11 Steve. 12 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 13 I appreciate this, but you know, in terms of 14 metrics to vote on, I think we need to list everything 15 that's out there, MEI, EEI, gallons per minute per 16 energy input, energy input per gallons per minute. 17 This committee can decide what it wants to 18 recommend. So I appre -- 19 MS. WIDDER: That's completely correct. 20 MR. ROSENSTOCK: And, again, other metrics 21 might have other advantages or disadvantages for this 22 whole group to look at and decide upon.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 88 1 MR. BROOKMAN: But let me note that we're a 2 long way from voting on this at this point. 3 Greg or -- pardon me -- Charlie. 4 MR. CAPPELLINO: Charlie Cappellino, ITT. 5 So a couple things I wanted to kind of just 6 put on the table here. There's a lot of complexity to 7 what's presented here, and to translate that into what 8 we do as pump manufacturers, you know, I think we 9 could get there, but it's pretty complex, and the 10 people around this table -- and we've seen it all. We 11 can kind of wrap our heads around it, but I'm sitting 12 here trying to think of, okay, how are we going to 13 take that and then communicate that across our own 14 organizations and then educate the users who can be a 15 wide range from somebody who's buying, you know, a 16 sump pump or all the way up to somebody who's a 17 sophisticated contractor. 18 And the things that keep coming to mind for 19 me are the things that people generally understand 20 today in the marketplace are, one, they understand 21 pump efficiency, and that's a pretty widely understood 22 concept, and the MEI basically ties to pump

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 89 1 efficiency. So that's one of the things I think you 2 want to keep in mind, is there's an advantage to the 3 MEI, is it already relates to things that people who 4 are dealing with this kind of equipment already 5 understand. I think they can wrap their heads around 6 that. 7 The other thing that people understand -- 8 and Louis mentioned it earlier -- is they understand 9 things like annual operating cost, and whether that's 10 your television or a pump or whatever, and one of the 11 questions I had, and I think it kind of goes to Lucas, 12 is as we move forward with this from a goal 13 standpoint, is it possible to separate and regulate 14 something from a labeling standpoint versus the actual 15 regulating the performance of equipment. 16 And where I'm going with that, so just bear 17 with me, is what I have a hard time wrapping my head 18 around is when we get into the complexities of the 19 system is how do you regulate around that. 20 I can understand how you would label around 21 that, where you could say, look, for these different 22 scenarios, this scenario because a customer may have -

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 90 1 - they understand their system. They have a Scenario 2 A. Another customer might have Scenario B, and you 3 can label that and give the customer information so 4 they can make a good decision. 5 But figuring out how you regulate that, I'm 6 still having a hard time wrapping my head around it, 7 and maybe the rest of the team here can help me with 8 that. 9 So the MEI piece is very -- that's something 10 you can regulate. We've already proven you can 11 regulate that, and so I'm just looking for some help 12 here in terms of is it possible to separate those two 13 in terms of regulation from the labeling standpoint so 14 everybody is calculating something like annual energy 15 usage the same way so that you're comparing things, 16 and people do that today. 17 I mean, a lot of our customers will do that 18 today. They look at annual energy usage and then make 19 purchasing decisions based on that. 20 MR. ADIN: So let me see if I can make sure 21 I'm clear on what you're asking. It sounds like -- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 91 1 MR. ADIN: Thanks, Doug. 2 -- the question is -- I get used to assuming 3 everyone knows who I am, but yeah. 4 It sounds like the question is essentially 5 if you're going to have a metric that is used for 6 comparing a given product to a standard, you're going 7 to write an efficiency or energy consumption standard 8 for these products and have a number that's used to 9 compare that product to the standard for the purposes 10 of compliance, but may not necessarily communicate 11 very useful information to a customer about the 12 product or a comparison between that product and 13 another one. 14 But you know there's another number that is 15 useful for that purpose. Can you have both numbers 16 and have one on the label and one for the standard? 17 That has issues for DOE's side. It would be 18 certainly preferable. I'm not even sure. Well, we'd 19 have to have some deliberation on our side, and maybe 20 we could, you know, address that today, but it would 21 be preferable to have a single number that can 22 accomplish both. I think that's really what we were

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 92 1 trying to get to with this, and it sounds like there's 2 still some questions around the table about whether 3 this can serve that purpose, how useful a number like 4 this really would be to consumers, and that's 5 understood. 6 I mean, I completely understand that 7 argument. It is, in fact, our goal with any number 8 that we pick to be able to communicate useful 9 information to consumers. We want to be able to do 10 that. 11 We're really trying to -- well, there's 12 actually kind of three parts, I think, from the way 13 that I look at this anyway. One of them is supplying 14 useful information to consumers in the metric. One is 15 comparing to a standard, and then the other is having 16 a metric that is minimally burdensome to obtain. So 17 that's the testing part of it. 18 You know, we started talking about that a 19 little bit, but so there's these three dimensions that 20 we have to work with all at the same time, and we'd 21 have to think a little bit about in practical terms 22 how we'll accomplish that.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 93 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's let Charlie follow on. 2 MR. CAPPELLINO: To me it kind of gets back 3 to a point that Doug made, and that's, you know, one 4 of the things that it's still not real clear to me, is 5 kind of the high level -- we could articulate the high 6 level end goals of what we want to really accomplish 7 with the metrics in what we're doing here. We've kind 8 of touched on it, but you know, easy to understand. 9 You know, the energy savings goals, how do we want to 10 -- I mean, it's some of those high level principles 11 that I think you've got to kind of bounce some of 12 these concepts off of because, again, there's a lot of 13 complexity here that we've got to try and figure out. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock and then to 15 Al. 16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 17 You talked about labeling. You know, 18 there's an FTC program for consumer products that are 19 regulated by DOE. We call them the yellow energy 20 guide labels. So you'll see an estimated annual 21 energy usage and annual energy cost. 22 I don't believe there's a similar

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 94 1 requirement for commercial products, commercial2 industrial products. The labels -- what? 3 MS. KOHL: This is Betsy Kohl, and Lucas can 4 explain it, but there is in Section 6315 labeling 5 provisions, and Energy Department does that rather 6 than FTC. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 8 MR. ADIN: Right. So I'll articulate that a 9 little bit more clearly, hopefully. Right. 10 So FTC handles the labeling - by statute 11 they have authority to do the labeling for consumer 12 products. We're in the commercial section. We have a 13 specific labeling provision in EPCA that deals with 14 these issues, and this actually gets back to Charlie's 15 point. 16 But so at a minimum whatever we decide is 17 going to be the metric for the standard, that number 18 would have to be on the label. The statute requires 19 that. So if we pick a metric for a standard, you have 20 to use that on the label, but DOE can also write into 21 the rule a specified, prescribed way for calculating 22 things like annual energy costs or annual energy use,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 95 1 and that could also be used on a label in addition to 2 that other number. 3 So that is a pathway that we could 4 potentially follow. 5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 6 And, again, just as a follow-up, just for 7 clarification, I'm just trying to think of for any 8 commercial and industrial product, had DOE specified a 9 specific label like Charlie was talking about? 10 MR. ADIN: The only product for which DOE 11 has -- on the commercial product side, the only 12 product for which there are currently labeling 13 requirements that I can think of is electric motors. 14 MR. ROSENSTOCK: And that means you have to 15 have the nameplate, the full load efficiency on the 16 nameplate as produced by the manufacturer, right? 17 MR. ADIN: Correct. Well, I should specify 18 that that's the only product for which DOE 19 specifically requires a label with efficiency on it. 20 Obviously any product can be labeled if DOE says to 21 the extent you use a label you have to use the number 22 that comes out of the DOE test procedure, but motors

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 96 1 are the only one where we actually say you must have a 2 label and it must have the efficiency on it, and it's 3 just the efficiency metrics. 4 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thanks. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 6 MR. HUBER: If we're looking at the goals 7 here, I mean, actually there's I would say probably 8 two or three. One of them is we want to be able to 9 compare one pump to some metric so that you can choose 10 or the consumer can choose which is the best, you 11 know, for him. One is more efficient. One is less 12 efficient. One costs more. One costs less. He can 13 make that choice, right? I mean, that's one of the 14 things we're trying to do. 15 The other thing we're trying to do is we're 16 trying to educate the consumer that taking a pump and 17 throttling it with a valve is going to cost him 18 energy, and we've got to be able to compare that 19 somehow or communicate that somehow to the consumer, 20 that a -- that comparing that to a variable speed 21 drive unit is more efficient. 22 You know, we instinctively know that, but

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 97 1 the consumer may not understand what benefit that 2 really is, and we've got to find a way to communicate 3 that, and I think the NGOs all agree with me on that. 4 I mean, that's one of the things we've talked about 5 for three years. So we've got to be able to do that. 6 I don't know that we're hitting that with 7 this. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: I would add one more to the 9 list at least, and maybe there's a -- I've got a list 10 of about five here, and the other which is critical 11 for you all is ease of application, not being 12 burdensome on the manufacturers and at the same time 13 it has got to pass muster. It has got to, you know, 14 have sufficient rigor to do the job sufficiently. 15 Chuck. 16 MR. POWERS: Yes. And also I was thinking. 17 I've got some questions to -- 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Get close to that thing. 19 MR. POWERS: I've got some questions for 20 Sarah's stuff in a minute because she's brought up 21 some good points, but also the path to the market. If 22 several pump guys, 100 percent of some of them, 50

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 98 1 percent of others and zero in others, go to the market 2 with a bare pump, not the motor, not the drive, okay, 3 I'm trying to picture in my mind like Charlie was 4 saying the other option, I mean, his views, too, on 5 how you label things. 6 So we could label the pump, but if we're not 7 packaging the motor VFD and somebody else is, you'd 8 have to say to them, "Okay. By the way, go to the 9 standard. Do all of the formulas. Do all of this 10 stuff. Get certified, and we assume you can." 11 That's just one point, right? 12 And I'm not defining. I'm just trying to 13 say how would a pump guy be responsible for all the 14 other factors, be responsible for the bare pump if 15 he's shipping 100 percent out the door, right? And 16 then somebody else is packaging it. 17 And a lot of the offshore coming to the 18 States would be that way, right? 19 The other one was in Sarah's formula, I'll 20 sit there and say on motors, okay, get it, right. It's 21 pretty cool, but if you throw in turbines or engines, 22 we'd have to look at the load factors and the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 99 1 governors and the systems. So you'd have to have 2 another set of series of those. 3 The other thing on the -- and just keep 4 going on the -- this is Chuck by the way -- on the VFD 5 drive, my experience and maybe some of the others', 6 the part load factor can be an issue. Instead of 7 putting it on the overall package, I still think the 8 individual, Greg, you know, in my testing, in my 9 experience is huge, and you know, again, I'm not 10 saying how we end up is contrary to what she was 11 mentioning, maybe have one overall. 12 The other thing is in my experience taking 13 generic motor efficiency is one thing, but then 14 actually doing testing and guaranteeing would have to 15 get a certified motor, right, to actually do testing 16 to qualify these factors to know where those motors 17 are and part load and how they're going to impact it, 18 you know, to feel comfortable that is there nominal -- 19 MR. BROOKMAN: It would need to be 20 calibrated or something. 21 MR. POWERS: There's a lot of -- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Something like that.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 100 1 MR. POWERS: There's a lot of work here, 2 which is good, but it isn't just straightforward as it 3 sounds, right? 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 5 MR. POWERS: You'd have to actually get the 6 actual data to do the test to make sure because, 7 again, if there's minimal gain on the pump, the 8 package is maybe the consequence here. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Let me note as a process 10 feature, in about ten minutes we're going to take a 11 break, just so you'll know. 12 I liked where we were headed, that kind of 13 listing the principal characteristics or the principal 14 goals they were trying to achieve at kind of a high 15 level. I thought that was a sensible thing to do. 16 Al, you started on that. Do you want to 17 keep talking here? 18 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson. 19 I had a couple more. One of the things I 20 think is a goal, and I see real problems with this, 21 and that is how do we measure the real savings. I 22 mean, if we're going to evaluate whether we regulate

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 101 1 something, we have to know what the real savings are, 2 and we're taking this analytical approach. Although 3 it's real easy or easier, it may not be accurate. 4 I mean, motor efficiencies do vary with 5 load. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary. 7 MR. HUBER: VFD efficiencies vary with load. 8 I mean, they just do. And so I'm a little concerned 9 that we may run off and decide that something is worth 10 spending a lot of money on based on analytical 11 shortcuts, and it just may not be there. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Fernstrom. 13 MR. FERNSTROM: So this is Gary for the 14 California IOUs. 15 Al, I agree with you, but I think Sarah very 16 clearly outlined the tradeoffs, the loss of accuracy 17 versus the additional burden, and I personally think 18 some of these analytical approach that were proposed 19 are very good and will give us accurate enough results 20 that we can avoid the burden of testing everything. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas -- Rob. Go ahead. 22 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob Boteler with

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 102 1 Nidec. How's that? 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 3 MR. BOTELER: Just one comment. You know, 4 we're talking I think about compliance testing where 5 we are looking at a formula that uses the values for 6 the motor and the control. I think where Al is headed 7 is then we have this other step called enforcement, 8 and the question is: is enforcement going to follow a 9 formula or is enforcement going to follow -- 10 MS. WIDDER: Yes, yes. 11 MR. BOTELER: It is? 12 MS. WIDDER: Enforcement will follow the 13 exact same procedure that the pump was certified 14 under. 15 MR. BOTELER: Okay. So there won't be a 16 wire to water test for enforcement. Okay. 17 MS. WIDDER: Well, I'm not going to say no. 18 I'm going to say there will be -- anyway, I'll let 19 Lucas. 20 MR. ADIN: Let me clarify that. I mean, 21 this obviously all depends ultimately on whatever it 22 is that we decide is the appropriate way to certify

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 103 1 these products. To the extent we do choose a course 2 which relies upon a calculation method, any testing 3 done for that product would be done the same way. 4 So if it's done as a calculation for 5 certifying the product, it would be done the same way 6 for any subsequent compliance or enforcement testing. 7 8 9 MR. BOTELER: I guess then the question I'd 10 have to ask if the formula uses the same value for 11 every motor, every pump manufacturer uses the same 12 value for the motor and the same value for the 13 control, the only variable we're actually measuring is 14 the pump. So why did we do this? 15 That's my second question. 16 MR. ADIN: So there is another possibility 17 here. This is one way to do it, and this was in 18 response to a lot of the concerns that we had heard 19 about the potential burden of doing wire to water 20 testing on every single configuration of pump and 21 motor and controls. 22 The other is to have a standardized

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 104 1 calculation approach but with a wire to water test 2 and, in fact, I mean, for DOE's part anyway, be 3 inclined to do this anyway just to have a backup if 4 someone actually did want to do the whole test and 5 find out what the real value is. 6 Like you'd still be able to if you were -- 7 say, for example, you were using a motor that is more 8 efficient than the baseline assumed motor and you want 9 to be able to recognize or represent the efficiency 10 improvement that's associated with that motor. Well, 11 we'd still have this test you can do to reflect those 12 savings in the efficiency rating for that particular 13 combination. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: And we can also allow use of 15 a nameplate, efficiency value, that's more efficient 16 than the baseline. So two options. 17 MR. ADIN: Yes, that's the other option, 18 correct. Thanks, Alison. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis and then to Greg. 20 MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr with 21 NEEA. 22 To answer Rob Boteler's question of why we

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 105 1 might want to do this, I think currently we don't have 2 a way to look at VFD's accuracy, but AHRI has a test 3 procedure now and five or six years they will know 4 probably accurately how VFDs perform over a variety of 5 loads. So it will have essentially a power curve for 6 VFDs. 7 And I think the same thing will happen with 8 the motor. So perhaps this time around we won't have 9 a rulemaking that actually utilizes real data that we 10 use in idealize, but seven years from now there will 11 be. 12 So this is setting the framework for the 13 future when we might actually do real world testing, 14 so where the pump and some of the other items actually 15 get tested together. 16 So I think it provides an excellent 17 opportunity for something in the future, and that's 18 why we want to set up the framework. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg Case. 20 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 21 To echo Alison's comment, I think the use of 22 -- the ability to use nameplate data other than the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 106 1 standardized motor and standardized control will allow 2 the manufacturer to upgrade his PER number of whatever 3 we call it by using premium equipment. 4 And if we just didn't give the controls a 5 pass, in Europe they've said the controls are, you 6 know, -- there's 100 percent efficiency there. So if 7 we created some fictitious load curve based on a swag 8 for the controls and then we also had a test procedure 9 but we had the test procedure allow us to do those 10 controls, and it would benefit you to do the test 11 procedure because our control curve would make the 12 calculation less efficient than if we actually went 13 and did the testing. 14 So I think that addresses Al's point. That 15 addresses why we would put different motors in there, 16 and that allows us to -- the manufacturer could just 17 calculate all of this out or he could actually do a 18 test and the test would be beneficial to the 19 manufacturer to run that test. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Laura. 21 MS. PETRILLO-GROH: Hi. Is it on now? 22 Laura Petrillo-Groh, AHRI.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 107 1 Louis, I think that test data will actually 2 be available sometime this year. The standard was 3 published in 2011, and the certification program for 4 that equipment was launched this year or at the very 5 end of last year. 6 You know, I think a lot of the concern the 7 manufacturers here have are the same as the 8 manufacturers who joined the certification program 9 with the additional benefit of it not being optional 10 or the opposite of benefit. A lot of testing is 11 required to establish this information and to, you 12 know, go through all of these tests. 13 It's a very large expense for a manufacturer 14 to go through, and using, you know, an established 15 test method where you can compare the products, 16 especially when products are used in, you know, 17 different applications, different equipment types, you 18 know, with VFDs, with pumps or with, you know, 19 blowers, fans and motors, has the benefit of a 20 manufacturer being able to test, get reliable data, 21 and provide that for, you know, their customers. So 22 just like the pump guys.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 108 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock. 2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 3 We've kind of flipped back between like the 4 metric and then the test procedure, kind of back and 5 forth, and I'm just thinking that somehow, you know, 6 thinking on the high level just seeing with this 7 conversation there might -- again, as a possibility, 8 there might be a use for multiple metrics, you know, 9 especially like when Charles was saying the bare pump 10 thing. 11 Well, if so many people are shipping, you 12 know, if 70 percent of the market is just shipping 13 bare pumps, then doesn't it make sense just to have a 14 bare pump metric because that's what's happening in 15 the marketplace? And a standard and a test procedure 16 would cover both domestic and imports. 17 So, again, it's out there as a general 18 concept in terms of our multiple metrics needed. It 19 could be in this case. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 21 Tom Eckman. 22 MR. ECKMAN: Well, I want to say a couple of

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 109 1 things. I want to support exactly what Greg said 2 about the advantages of having a test and the option 3 of using default values because I think -- or using 4 book values better than the minimum compliant values 5 because you guys have an opportunity to differentiate 6 your products and, you know, to the extent that we 7 make those default values conservative, you can pick 8 better and do better by using tested products or using 9 better book values. 10 So I think that's a shared goal on our part 11 and where we want to go. 12 And to Rob's point, I think we would have a 13 pump only test value. You don't need multi-metrics to 14 do it because the people who just use the book values 15 are going to get the test values, are going to get the 16 pump value. That's it. 17 So we have that without having to have -- 18 because all of those defaults will add up to the same 19 number except for the pump. So I think there's 20 elegance in that solution where you have one metric 21 that covers the whole gamut. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: So we are going to break in a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 110 1 minute, but I just want to introduce what I'm going to 2 talk about after that because I think it will help 3 some of this discussion. 4 So I'm going to go through how we could 5 potentially set a standard using this metric, and I 6 think that will elucidate just what Tom just said, 7 that although it's just a single metric, it really 8 does address just the pump only. It will show how MEI 9 can be kind of embedded in it and hopefully that will 10 help resolve some of these issues about why we think 11 this might work instead of multiple metrics and still 12 get at the bare pump. 13 Because, like Tom said, really the only 14 variable changing in it is pump efficiency. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: You're going to keep them in 16 suspense until after the break. 17 Let's take a break. It's ten o'clock and 18 we'll resume at 10:15. I think actually we've made 19 some progress in this last conversation. 20 We'll see you back here at 10:15. Please 21 make sure the wear your badges in the room. 22 (A brief recess was taken.)

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 111 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Please take your seats. 2 Okay. So I've been asked to make sure that 3 we get these microphones close to our faces because 4 apparently those that are listening on line are having 5 a hard time hearing us. So if we could do that. 6 Let me talk about scheduling for a moment. 7 Several individuals have approached me and said they 8 need to leave at one or 1:30 or so. There are at 9 least two. How many of you need to leave today, one, 10 1:30-ish to catch a plane? 11 Just two. Okay. That's not as many as I 12 had expected. We would still have a quorum at that 13 point. 14 No, I was just kidding. 15 So the question is one individual suggested 16 that maybe we should just work through lunch, stop at 17 one or 1:30, call it a day, that sort of thing, and 18 then everybody could get on their way, or 19 alternatively, we can work till 12:30 or one-ish, 20 12:30 or so, and those individuals that need to leave, 21 they can leave and we can reconvene and work till 22 three o'clock.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 112 1 So I don't have any strong feeling about it. 2 My general predisposition is to keep you captive as 3 long as possible, but I'll entertain other ideas at 4 this point if there are any. 5 I think most of you have travel plans for 6 later in the day. So I'd just as soon stay here and 7 keep working at it till three o'clock. 8 Steve. 9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: The only thing I'll 10 suggest, if you think there's need for caucus to get 11 together during lunch in terms of any sort of decision 12 point, then you might want to break for lunch. If 13 not, if it's still just information and analysis, then 14 work through. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: It's a good point, and I had 16 a conversation with you folks over the break. Maybe 17 we may gain more ground in this last presentation 18 format, and Alison is also about to begin here. She's 19 going to describe how what Sarah presented, how the 20 MEI fits with that, and then we're going to see if we 21 can do some sort of a confirmation sort of a 22 discussion after this next presentation segment. Okay?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 113 1 So then I think what we're going to do is 2 we're going to allow those individuals that need to 3 leave to catch a plane or a train, allow them to leave 4 and then we're going to just plug on here until three 5 o'clock. That's the plan. 6 Okay. Alison. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So I think these 8 slides went out earlier, too. I just want to go 9 through them. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Can I? Pardon me. 11 One more request. A number of individuals 12 have requested that these slides that are being 13 presented today and the ones that were done yesterday, 14 that were edited, if they could be sent out and soon, 15 then that would be helpful to members of the working 16 group. So I hope that will be feasible. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So I will just plan to 18 edit or to just double check them for typos and stuff 19 on the plane tonight and then we can send them. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. That's 21 helpful. 22 Now, Alison.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 114 1 MR. ADIN: I didn't know what you meant by 2 soon. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Oh, okay. Well, that's what 4 I meant by soon. 5 MR. ADIN: Yeah. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: That means soon. 7 MR. ADIN: That's what we, I think, meant by 8 soon, too, is we'd make sure that they're correct 9 based on the discussion that we have today and send 10 them out as soon as possible. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: So maybe soon means within a 12 few days. 13 MR. ADIN: Right. Okay. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So just up front, I'm 16 going to talk about how we could potentially -- sorry. 17 This computer is super slow -- I'm going to talk about 18 how we could potentially set -- oh, I don't -- oh, I 19 guess so. I'm not taking notes now. Oh, oops, I hit 20 the wrong button. We'll get there one day. 21 Okay. So while it's thinking, what I'm 22 going to talk about is purely hypothetical, something

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 115 1 that could be done. It does not indicate any decision 2 that DOE has made. So please don't take it as, you 3 know, set in stone or whatever. It's just some 4 slides to hopefully help understand how we think maybe 5 MEI could be involved in this metric. 6 Okay. So Sarah showed this slide briefly 7 before. So what we're going to talk about is how you 8 can set an efficiency level, and so this is a little 9 different from how you would calculate your own PER 10 score for your own pump. So this is a discussion of 11 how we're going to get to what the minimum efficiency 12 level would be. 13 So the same equation as before, but instead 14 of electric input power, we're showing the components 15 of it with hydraulic power, pump efficiency and motor 16 efficiency. 17 Hydraulic power is a measured value for each 18 pump. So just as the MEI is a function of flow and 19 specific speed, the PER would also be a function 20 probably of flow and specific speed. 21 As we talked about before, the motor we use, 22 well, so in this case the motor we would use to set a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 116 1 standard would probably be the efficiency of a 2 minimally compliant motor with rules on how they're 3 sized so that everyone's sizing the motor the same 4 way. It may be full load efficiency or we may use 5 some other loads as well. 6 And I think the key part of this is that the 7 pump efficiency at BEP is a target value, but is a 8 function of specific speed, flow and potentially C 9 values. So this would basically be how the MEI is 10 rolled into this. 11 So we could evaluate different levels of MEI 12 basically by setting different target values for the 13 "n" pump BEP. You wouldn't have to meet that. You 14 only have to meet the PER. So it wouldn't be, you 15 know, a standard that we're setting. We're just 16 looking at different efficiency levels. 17 So this first bullet just says basically 18 that we could calculate pump efficiency at BEP as a 19 target value exactly the same way that the MEI does. 20 So, you know, we could potentially look at MEI ten, 21 40, 60, whatever and try those different efficiency 22 levels and plug them into this equation.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 117 1 And just as in the house of efficiency 2 approach in the EU, the target values for pump 3 efficiency at part loads -- and you can ignore the 25 4 percent -- would just be some percentage of pump 5 efficiency at BEP. So somewhere around 95 percent for 6 the 75 percent flow and it currently looks like the 7 market average is around 79 percent for 50 percent 8 flow. 9 So in this equation we have "n" pump BEP, 10 again, would be a function of just like MEI is. The 11 .785 and the .95 are percentages for the 75 percent 12 and 50 percent load points, and the motor efficiency 13 value would be the federal minimum compliance level 14 for an appropriately sized motor. 15 So and then the hydraulic power just is 16 different for every pump that you test. So basically 17 you can look at different levels of pump efficiency, 18 which is basically different levels of MEI and just 19 use this equation to make an equivalent PER for every 20 MEI. 21 So the only thing changing is the MEI. The 22 motor efficiency is going to be the same. The

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 118 1 percentage at part load is going to be the same. The 2 weights are going to be the same. The hydraulic power 3 is going to be the same. You're just changing 4 different MEI levels essentially. 5 So this is an example pump that we're going 6 to calculate to see how it would compare to an MEI 7 standard and a PER standard. So these are -- the flow 8 and specific speed. We calculated the shaft and 9 hydraulic power at the three load points and the pump 10 efficiency at the three load points. 11 We're using -- this pump has a nameplate 12 efficiency for the motor of 95 percent. So we plug 13 these values into this equation, the shaft power at 14 each of the load points. So load points and the motor 15 efficiency. So I have the efficiency level here, and 16 -- sorry. 17 So this chart demonstrates -- this chart has 18 a C value and the pump efficiency at BEP at these four 19 different MEI levels we looked at, and then we used 20 this equation up here to calculate what the equivalent 21 PER would be at each of the MEI levels. 22 So you can see that if we looked at the pump

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 119 1 efficiency for this pump, it's 84.04 percent. So it 2 would pass under an MEI or under a pump efficiency 3 standard up to MEI 70. The calculated PER is 29.23, 4 and so in this example it's actually lower than all 5 these levels. 6 So you can see that there is a slight 7 difference. It would -- there are some points at 8 which a pump might pass one and not pass another, but 9 the only thing that is changing in setting the 10 efficiency level is just the pump efficiency, which 11 would basically -- so it all goes back to this one red 12 variable. This is the key one that would change with 13 efficiency level. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck. 15 MR. POWERS: Question: so in that equation 16 did the motor load efficiency at those different 17 conditions include it? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: We -- yes, in this example we 19 just used the nominal full load efficiency across the 20 board. 21 MR. POWERS: Oh, so you did use the others, 22 which is important because they will vary. Then it

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 120 1 would not be just the pump. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: But it would be -- if we were 3 setting a standard, we would set -- we would just use 4 a standardized motor part load curve. So every pump 5 would be using the same part load curves. So the only 6 variable changing would still be the pump efficiency. 7 That's for setting a standard. It's 8 different from how you would calculate your own pump's 9 rating. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: So I'm looking at this side 11 of the table over here. I'm noticing there aren't as 12 many furrowed brows as there were previously. 13 (Laughter.) 14 MR. BROOKMAN: So my hypothesis is that this 15 is starting to work. And, Greg, you were nodding 16 affirmatively, I'll add for the record. 17 (Laughter.) 18 MR. BROOKMAN: So, no, I want you to explain 19 back what Alison just said for all of us. 20 (Laughter.) 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Or someone else because I 22 want to make sure -- can you do that or should I rely

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 121 1 on someone else? I thought that that last explication 2 surrounding MEI, I thought that was rather clear. 3 MR. CASE: I agree. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Okay. Steve 5 Rosenstock. 6 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock. 7 I'm not trying to explain it. I promise, 8 but if you could go forward to where the table of 9 results was. Yeah, that one. 10 On a previous slide -- and, again, this is 11 from your earlier slides -- the unit, the PER 12 calculated the way the equation is that it's like a 13 29.23, and then in a previous slide it said 14 horsepower, HP. 15 Is that the unit that you're calculating? 16 Okay. 17 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, currently the PER that 18 we're using in this formula is a power based metric. 19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. In looking at this 20 table, it is that that would be a minimum value or a 21 maximum value? I'm just trying to get my bearings all 22 straight here because with all the -- in terms of a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 122 1 standard, it would have to be at least 29.23? 2 MS. WILLIAMS: So the MEI levels in this 3 chart are like efficiency levels -- 4 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Right. 5 MS. WILLIAMS: -- that we usually look at, 6 right? And so your maximum -- but since lower is 7 better, it's really a maximum. 8 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. So that would be a 9 maximum. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So MEI 10, the maximum 11 PER would be 33.6. 12 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: And for this pump we're 14 calculating a PER of 29. So it would be good to go. 15 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. Again, just thinking 16 about it, when you say horsepower that just -- 17 unfortunately that implies not an efficiency metric; 18 just more of an output, of a work output. Using it 19 might cause confusion in the marketplace if there was 20 some way to -- I don't know how, but -- 21 MS. WILLIAMS: So I want to separate. I 22 mean, I think that's the conversation about the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 123 1 denominator because we can get to a different unit 2 with the denominator, and so I want to keep that 3 conversation separate and try to make this more of a - 4

- 5 MR. BROOKMAN: And I want to keep this 6 conceptual still. 7 MR. ROSENSTOCK: That's why I was kind of 8 saying at the high level as, you know, again, just as 9 a -- this is the first time I've seen -- 10 MS. WILLIAMS: So we can use the denominator 11 to make almost any unit we want basically. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. Let's go to Lucas. 13 MR. ADIN: I think -- I don't know if this 14 addresses your concern, Steve -- but I think really 15 the main point we're trying to make in going through 16 this example and this explanation is really to drive 17 home the point that the only variable that under this 18 construct we would be considering for the purposes of 19 setting a standard is a pump efficiency. 20 Like we could create a different metric with 21 a denominator or whatever that would, you know, 22 accomplish those other purposes that we're talking

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 124 1 about about communicating information to consumers or 2 whatever it is, but at the end of the day when we do 3 the analysis to set a standard, we'd just be varying 4 that pump efficiency value. 5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Understood. Steve 6 Rosenstock, EEI. 7 I understand that, but you know, the metric 8 becomes what's published in all the tables and what -- 9 MR. BROOKMAN: We're not going there yet. 10 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Oh, I know, I know. Just 11 again -- 12 MR. BROOKMAN: We're staying at a conceptual 13 level. 14 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Yes. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis, are you going to keep 16 us at a conceptual level? 17 MR. STARR: Yeah. On the -- Louis Starr 18 with NEEA. 19 If you've got the motor in there, it seems 20 like you should also have the efficiency of the VFD as 21 well. I mean, it's not going to change your equation. 22 Just it also has --

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 125 1 MR. ADIN: So in this example -- I'm sorry? 2 MR. STARR: Never mind. Go ahead at this 3 point. This is just the pump only. 4 MR. ADIN: Right. 5 MR. STARR: So we're not at the VFD. 6 MR. ADIN: We're not talking about that 7 level. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Here, here. 9 MR. STARR: Sorry. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: So I don't know if this will 11 help clarify it at all, and so the PER consists of the 12 control, the motor, and the pump, and so here's where 13 we're changing the MEI levels for the pump. The motor 14 value would be a default value, most likely the 15 federal minimum efficiency. 16 We could also have a default value for 17 controls. It may be one, but we could talk about if 18 there should be something else, but you know, setting 19 a standard we would probably -- we would assume no 20 controls in the most likely scenario. So those would 21 probably be one. This would be default, and we would 22 just look at different efficiency levels here, and

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 126 1 these all go together to create the PER. 2 MR. ADIN: Right, and just to clarify, where 3 it says default, we'd have to make a choice about what 4 we use as that default. So for the motor, for 5 example, I mean, we could choose to just use the 6 minimum, a minimally compliant motor, right? So you 7 assume that it's a motor that just meets the minimum 8 federal standard. 9 Well, if that's what the pump standard is 10 based upon, well, then a product that uses a more 11 efficient motor based on its nameplate data would 12 basically be shown as being more efficient than a 13 standard on the basis of the motor, perhaps in 14 addition to the pump. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: And it would be a 16 calculation, and so that would be minimally burdensome 17 on manufacturers. 18 Steve Rosenstock, at a conceptual level. 19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Again, at a conceptual 20 level -- 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: -- if there are pumps that

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 127 1 use motors that are not covered by federal standards, 2 would there have to be another possible default 3 considered? 4 MR. ADIN: This is Lucas. That's something 5 that we would have to look at. I mean, we'd have to 6 consider for each class of pumps that we're looking at 7 really what are the motors that are -- because it 8 would have to be realistically based on what's 9 actually going on in the market and not just, you 10 know, a flat baseline assumption. 11 But it would have to be based on 12 information. So yes. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Do you have more slides? 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Nope. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: So I want to take it back one 16 notch. Doug Potts first. 17 MR. POTTS: Doug Potts. 18 I'd like to ask a quick question. Could you 19 explain what the C value is? 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, so in the MEI, it's a -- 21 what kind of equation is it? The quadratic equation, 22 right, and so there's a scale or variable that just

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 128 1 moves up and down, and so that's what the C value is, 2 and in the EU they set a minimum C value basically to 3 say how high or low the minimum pump efficiency is. 4 So it's -- for this pump, this flow and 5 specific speed, these are the equivalent BEPs. So the 6 C value is really just defining the minimum pump 7 efficiency for a specific flow and specific speed 8 pump. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: So I'd like to take it back 10 because I liked starting with this information that 11 Sarah wrote up here. I believe this is what Al said 12 with a few additions. 13 The goals of the metric would be to be 14 objectively measurable and minimally burdensome, to 15 differentiate pump performance, to apply standards, 16 and to help consumers make decisions. I think those 17 are kind of the overarching goals in this metric. 18 And in this last description where you 19 applied the MEI to the PER equation, I thought that 20 was -- also showed how those pieces are put together, 21 right? 22 So I was wondering now, anybody in the room

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 129 1 has questions on how this would be utilized, how it 2 would be applied? 3 Steve Rosenstock. 4 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock. 5 With that equation you could replace driver 6 for motor and it would still work, wouldn't it? 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 8 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Alison? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: So, yes. Sorry. 10 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Let me address that real 12 quick. So I know we voted the covered product, 13 including drivers that may include non-electric 14 motors. Currently the format we have proposed for the 15 metric makes the assumption that pumps are driven by 16 electric motors, and if you were selling a pump 17 designed with or designed for use with an engine, it 18 would basically be considered a bare pump, and it 19 would be treated in this equation where you would just 20 -- the bare pump would still be regulated, but the 21 metric would not account for engine efficiency. 22 So it -- let me finish -- so this is what we

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 130 1 are suggesting right now as a first step to set this 2 metric dealing only with electric motors, and either 3 now or in the future we could consider default value 4 for an engine or a turbine or other values if the 5 working group determined that that was something that 6 needed to be addressed in the metric. 7 However, just because -- I mean, as we wrote 8 the covered product definition very broadly it 9 includes all sorts of pump types that were not 10 included in the scope of the standard. So similarly, 11 just because it includes all kinds of drivers, they 12 don't necessarily all have to be within the scope of 13 the standard. 14 So that's something that the working group 15 can discuss, whether or not the metric needs to 16 address those things. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve. 18 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 19 Thank you very much. Again, I think that 20 would be something for us to determine, and that was 21 one of the data points that we were looking for, is 22 because as I discussed in the last meeting, at one

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 131 1 point they said ten percent of the products were sold 2 with non-electric drivers. Then at a later meeting it 3 was two percent. 4 I still have no information about what that 5 market is, and then you showed the slides about the 6 agricultural thing where we're certain -- in certain 7 segments there is a significant portion of the market 8 in terms of dollars spent using either propane or 9 natural gas or diesel drivers in that market, in the 10 agricultural market. 11 So in my view, again, if I had the data that 12 showed what the actual percentage of the market is it 13 would be one thing to limit it, but right now I don't 14 have any data that says why certain segments of the 15 market should be limited, especially because you're 16 trying to save all types of energy and not just 17 electricity. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: So I'm just guessing and from 19 what I recall from the previous meetings was -- and 20 maybe we need more data, better data -- that electric 21 motors are in the high '90s, and so maybe we need more 22 data, but it just seems like this construct is a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 132 1 matter of convenience. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, and I just want to say 3 we don't have full data in yet, but I can tell you 4 that so far all of the data we have received, there 5 have been zero shipments of pumps with engines in it. 6 So I mean, we'll keep collecting that data and see if 7 any comes in, but that's the current state. 8 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. Steve 9 Rosenstock, EEI. 10 You're getting data from distributors? 11 Because someone's shipping them. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: We're not getting data from 13 distributors. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck. 15 MR. POWERS: Yeah, I think when you get into 16 some -- 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Microphone. 18 MR. POWERS: It is on. When you do talk 19 through diesels, engine drives and all, you may find a 20 lot of them are above 200 horse. There is a lot of 21 little stuff, but they're probably involved in some 22 very small, but when you get into the majority of

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 133 1 them, you're going to go above 200 horse. 2 Now, they may stop at 500 horse. It depends 3 on if you're talking about 3208 Cat. or Wakashaws, 4 whatever. That's my take, Steve, and I agree that -- 5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Oh, Steve Rosenstock. 6 I appreciate that, and again, if I had that 7 information, I'd be happy to do it. Again, I'm going 8 partially -- Steve Rosenstock -- just I don't have the 9 data. So in terms of -- 10 MR. BROOKMAN: We got your point, Steve. 11 MR. ROSENSTOCK: -- not excluding something 12

-- 13 MR. BROOKMAN: We got it. We did. 14 MS. WILLIAMS: This is Alison. 15 What I would propose is let's table that for 16 later when there is data and just move forward with 17 the assumption that currently we're just covering 18 motors and we'll later have a discussion about whether 19 or not to get the drivers in there so we can keep 20 going. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: I'm looking at the 22 manufacturers caucus here, and I'm wondering what you

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 134 1 think. Does what has been presented -- does it make 2 sense to you? Are there still gaps in the 3 understanding here? Can you see the application for 4 you as manufacturers and your plants back home? What 5 do you think? How does this look to you? 6 Greg Case. 7 MR. CASE: Greg Case from Hydraulic 8 Institute. 9 I think as a conceptual construct we can see 10 the path here, and obviously there's details in some 11 of this that we would want to see more information on 12 how the MEI, whatever it's called, number is going to 13 be determined. But I think the path here seems clear. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin. 15 MR. ADIN: On that point perhaps we can make 16 a request. With full understanding that there are 17 some issues that you would need to consider with this 18 and it's potentially they're -- it's a complex issue. 19 I mean, potentially there are a number of factors that 20 might be involved, not just in, you know, the 21 calculation of the number itself, how it's obtained 22 for the testing part of it and how we do the standard.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 135 1 When we come back at the next meeting, just 2 if we could hear, you know, about what your specific 3 questions or concerns are so we can talk through and 4 see if we can come a little closer to resolving the 5 concerns on your side because, you know, I just hope 6 that we can get a little closer; if not, settle the 7 matter of what we're really going to use for the 8 metric next time. 9 So thanks. 10 MS. WIDDER: So I brought back up this slide 11 which has a number of issues to discuss. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Sarah Widder. 13 MS. WIDDER: Sorry. This is Sarah from 14 PNNL. 15 We still have a little bit of time, and I 16 was wondering if maybe especially the bottom two 17 bullets, the load points and the weighting, if we 18 generally agree that we will capture multiple load 19 points in the equation, it may look something like the 20 PER equation up there or it may be slightly different. 21 Maybe we could discuss what those load points might be 22 as a -- it seems like a detail, but it would be a nice

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 136 1 thing to have some resolution around and may be 2 easier. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Well, I think that's a 4 sensible thing. 5 Al Huber. 6 MR. HUBER: As far as the industry is 7 concerned, it would be the bottom on the load points. 8 That's the one that we've sent the surveys to you on. 9 That's the one we've had all of our membership report 10 on and hopefully you'll have 25 companies reporting 11 50, 75, 100 and 110. So you'll have the data. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: That's good. That's helpful. 13 MS. WIDDER: Excellent. 14 MR. HUBER: We are not reporting 25. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, you stated earlier why. 16 Okay. Right. That makes sense. Good. So that's 17 helpful. 18 Any significant heartburn with those load 19 points? They're consistent with what the consultant 20 team thinks makes sense. I just thought I'd get the 21 general sense now. Everybody is generally okay with 22 this?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 137 1 Louis. 2 MR. STARR: Just, you know, this is more you 3 could really do it over the whole range of things and 4 kind of integrate things together. I mean, it's a 5 more complex way of doing it, but rather than use 6 specific load points, you just do it over the whole 7 range of curve and grade over the normal. 8 Anyway, it's a technical aspects of it that 9 is really -- could be done that's more -- 10 MS. WIDDER: Right. 11 MR. STARR: -- representative of what the 12 real situation is. 13 MS. WIDDER: The difficulty with that, 14 although analytically there are a couple of ways, but 15 from the test procedure perspective, we have to 16 specify a number and specific load points that the 17 manufacturers will test their pump at. 18 MR. STARR: Right. 19 MS. WIDDER: And so it can't be infinite. 20 You know, there has to be a reasonable number, and 21 then you could, you know, specify a curve and then 22 apply that curve to, you know, another equation where

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 138 1 you get your load profile, but it just seems perhaps 2 very complex. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis, keep going. 4 MR. STARR: So maybe an alternative to that 5 is just looking at the bin hours and just picking the 6 large bin. 7 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 8 MR. STARR: So 25 percent probably would be, 9 but maybe like 37, and you know, off of the 25, 50. So 10 37, 62, whatever 12 plus 75 is, in those ranges that 11 might be better load points because very little hours 12 has it actually run at 100 percent a lot of times and 13 so -- 14 MS. WIDDER: Right. 15 MR. STARR: -- maybe a little bit off of 16 that would be preferable. 17 MS. WIDDER: And I recognize it would be 18 excellent to set the load points based on a 19 representative load shape or profile. The struggle is 20 that that data is not widely available. It is for 21 HVAC, but that's not the only application of pumps 22 we're addressing in this rulemaking, and so you know,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 139 1 manufacturing, industrial, agriculture might have very 2 different load shapes. So we sort of went with 3 something middle of the road for that reason. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: And for which the industry is 5 used to compiling this data. 6 Rob Boteler. 7 MR. BOTELER. Yeah, Rob Boteler with Nidec. 8 I just have one question. The load points 9 we're talking about, are these -- these are the pump 10 load points, not the motor? 11 MS. WIDDER: Correct. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Correct. 13 MR. BOTELER: Okay. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Paul Lin. 15 MR. LIN: Maybe just a couple comments from 16 a high level standpoint. If we follow through with 17 that kind of an approach, you're not taking into 18 account the actual motor watt draw, right? So you're 19 really taking into account the full load point, and if 20 we're talking about an energy rating, you know, the 21 motor is the one that's drawing the energy, right, not 22 the pump itself.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 140 1 And so from a different standpoint with 2 different technologies, that doesn't come out. You're 3 not able to differentiate from different technologies 4 with the way of having a single full load point. 5 And also to the count of having a control on 6 it, you're not giving I don't think adequate weighing 7 of having a -- of the ability to control the various 8 loads because your separation of watts at partial 9 loads is significant, especially -- I mean, the watts, 10 it's tied to speed if you write cubic relationship 11 there. 12 So I think those are mainly two of the 13 things that I have kind of stuck in my head. One is 14 the actual watt draw, and then two is how do you 15 account for the variable load with a control. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 17 MR. ADIN: So, I mean, I think those are two 18 issues that we still need to decide upon. I mean, 19 what we described up here is based upon the use of an 20 assumed efficiency value for all load points, but we 21 fully understand the point that that's going to -- the 22 watt draw and the efficiency of the motor itself is

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 141 1 going to vary, you know, at each load point. 2 So, you know, how in practical terms would 3 we deal with that? Would we use an assumed load curve 4 or an efficiency curve for that motor? I mean there 5 are potentially different ways you could do it, but we 6 want to make sure that we're minimizing the amount of 7 actual burden that's involved in obtaining an 8 efficiency rating for that pump. 9 So we need to balance one with the other and 10 then I'll let Sarah speak to this as well. 11 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: But Sarah first. 13 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Just to add onto that, 14 we definitely recognize the reduction in accuracy that 15 you would have to do in order to just assume full load 16 motor efficiency, and in light of that we performed 17 some preliminary calculations based on some pump and 18 motor testing data that we have to look at how 19 accounting for motor losses versus tested motor losses 20 versus assuming a full load efficiency would affect 21 the PER rating. 22 So we tried to look at calculated motor

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 142 1 losses if we assume some curve, a default curve, 2 versus the tested losses versus just full load 3 efficiency, and the difference was like .02 in PER 4 points, which is -- so it was like 29.87, 29.89, and 5 29.86 or something like that. 6 And I have the calculations and we can go 7 through that at a later time, but we found it to be a 8 very small difference in accounting for the losses 9 because for many -- I recognize not all motors -- but 10 for many motors the efficiency doesn't drop off 11 significantly until you get to significant loading, is 12 my understanding. I'm not -- 13 MR. POWERS: Except for VFD drives. 14 MS. WIDDER: Well, VFD drives is different, 15 yeah. I think maybe -- 16 MR. BROOKMAN: So Chuck says except for VFD 17 drives. Now, Sarah. 18 MS. WIDDER: If we can maybe separate the 19 motor losses from the how to account for controls and 20 the interaction of motor controls, just whether or not 21 we account for motor losses, I think, is an issue in 22 and of itself that we can keep separate.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 143 1 So we've shown or seen from the data we have 2 that it's not a very large impact at the loading that 3 we're looking at. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 5 MS. WIDDER: That said, we could think of a 6 way to account for it. We also considered -- it 7 wasn't presented here -- but the motor test procedure 8 does capture other rating loading points besides full 9 load, although full load is the only one that's 10 required to be reported for purposes of compliance 11 with DOE standards. 12 Theoretically one could, if that data is 13 available for motor efficiency at multiple load 14 points, somehow interpolate between the available data 15 and the pump load points -- 16 MR. BROOKMAN: But let's note that -- 17 MS. WIDDER: But anyways -- 18 MR. BROOKMAN: -- it might require some 19 additional work, but as we are staying at a conceptual 20 level still, we're not going to solve the problem now. 21 Rob Boteler. 22 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler with Nidec.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 144 1 Yeah, that's kind of why I brought up the 2 question earlier if it's compliance testing versus 3 enforcement testing. If we stay on one track and we 4 use, you know, just the data, just the calculated 5 data, then we don't run into issues. If we don't, if 6 we switch back and forth, then on the enforcement side 7 the pump manufacturers are going to have a real issue, 8 I think, because they'll have a different way of doing 9 it. 10 And to your point, the motors are going to 11 behave differently when they're run on a variable 12 frequency drive. The losses are going to change. 13 MS. WIDDER: Certainly. 14 MR. BOTELER: Each motor manufacturers' are 15 going to be different. Most manufacturers do publish 16 100 percent, 75, 50 percent load, and that would be 17 something that would be available to the pump 18 manufacturers, but that's not a -- to your point, 19 that's not a table within the regulation. 20 MS. WIDDER: Right. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock. 22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 145 1 I'm just kind of curious. At the 110 2 percent of BEP flow, is that analogous to a higher 3 than 100 percent load on the motor in some cases? 4 MS. WIDDER: My understanding, and I will 5 let the pump manufacturers respond after that, is no. 6 The motor is sized at pump run-out essentially so that 7 you're always under the max loading of the motor, 8 regardless of how the pump is run. 9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: So at 110 percent, what 10 would be the analogy in terms of the actual motor load 11 at 110 percent of BEP? 12 MS. WIDDER: It varies because, you know, 13 there's discrete -- a motor size is discrete and a 14 pump size discrete. 15 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Understood, understood. 16 MS. WIDDER: And so it's going vary. I 17 would imagine that it would be above -- I'm looking at 18 the pump guys -- 80 percent. 19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. 20 MS. WIDDER: Higher. 21 MR. POWERS: I think to help Sarah so she 22 doesn't work herself into a corner, I think the factor

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 146 1 is the non-overloading. It could be anywhere on a 2 curve. Some products are close to the shutoff. 3 There's more axial flow products. We don't have axial 4 in here, but some of them could get down, can get up 5 on specific speeds and get there. It will be to the 6 left. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 8 MR. POWERS: Some of them are on run-out. 9 There's max load. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 11 MR. POWERS: It just depends where. Don't 12 assume it's -- she said always run-out. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 14 MR. POWERS: It may not always be there. 15 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 16 Again, you know -- 17 MR. BROOKMAN: That was Chuck there. Now 18 Steve. 19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Again, it's just a matter 20 of if there's ever a situation, and motors can handle 21 overload for short periods of time; if there's -- when 22 you're doing the analysis, is there data at 102

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 147 1 percent, 105 percent load for the motor? Because it 2 can happen. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Let me ask if we can now move 4 to the weighting issue. 5 MS. WIDDER: So I will just respond to Steve 6 quickly. We can certainly look at that, but that will 7 -- it has to do with the motor losses, that bullet, 8 yeah. 9 MR. STARR: One last question on motors. So 10 the difference between an induction motor and a three11 phase induction motor or an ECM permanent magnet 12 motor, ECM motor, my understanding is there's like 13 eight percent difference in those efficiencies. Is 14 that kind of the number that we're -- five to eight 15 percent difference? 16 So it seems like that would show up a lot in 17 the PER, but it sounds like you're saying that amount 18 of difference is not enough to affect the values very 19 much. 20 MS. WIDDER: Oh, no. No, I mean the -- 21 you're talking about five to eight percent efficiency 22 at full load.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 148 1 MR. STARR: Even at part load and even 2 better at part load a lot of times they pick up as 3 they -- or the -- 4 MS. WIDDER: Right. 5 MR. STARR: -- ECM motors tend to be more 6 efficient at part load. 7 MS. WIDDER: At part load. 8 MR. STARR: But even at full load they're 9 pretty good, but you know, they're not -- they're 10 similar to your regular motors, but it seems like the 11 part loading would help you out a lot. 12 MS. WIDDER: Right. And so to your point 13 earlier we could have different part loading curves 14 for different motors. 15 MR. STARR: Oh, so you're just using the 16 full load one, yeah. So that won't distinguish the 17 technology to use the full load the whole one. 18 MS. WIDDER: Right. 19 MR. STARR: So that's probably not a good 20 idea, but okay. Got it. 21 MS. WIDDER: Right. 22 MS. WILLIAMS: And just to note, we think

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 149 1 ECMs would probably be treated as controls, right. So 2 you would get credit also for being able to reduce 3 speed with an ECM. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 5 MR. STARR: Well, maybe let Paul take this. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Paul, please, yeah. 7 MR. POWERS: Maybe just as a side note, AHRI 8 1210 excludes ECM. 9 MS. WIDDER: Yes. 10 MR. POWERS: So right now you don't have a 11 method in which to rate an ECM. 12 MS. WIDDER: Right. Well, depending on how 13 we decide to rate pump/motor/control pumps, we may not 14 need that test. We may go with -- if we were to go 15 with an approach like A or an approach like C, you 16 never need to know the drive efficiency of the ECM 17 motor. So we could just have a different load control 18 factor that accounted for motor losses as well as 19 improvements from speed reduction that was for the ECM 20 that was similar to or different than a VSD load 21 control factor. Yah. 22 MR. STARR: There's only one thought about

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 150 1 that. A lot of times let's say you've selected a 2 pump. You know, you have a certain flow head 3 condition and you come out with I need 3.6 horsepower. 4 You'll be bumping up to a five horsepower motor 5 because that's what's available. 6 So now you're actually running your motor at 7 part load. So you're no longer really at 100 percent. 8 So in other words, in constant volume applications you 9 may still be using running the motor at part load. 10 MS. WIDDER: Right. 11 MR. STARR: So it would be nice to catch it 12 in the motor metric, not in the VFD metric. 13 MS. WIDDER: Right. 14 MR. STARR: In other words, the part load 15 operation. And that happens a lot, too, because your 16 system, what you're hooking up to, they could misjudge 17 what the static head and all that is, and they usually 18 overestimate it. So that means you're really backing 19 your motor down or backing your operating point down. 20 Therefore, you're really only part loading your motor. 21 So it's very common that they miss that all the time. 22 MS. WIDDER: Right.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 151 1 MR. BROOKMAN: So can we now move to 2 weighting? 3 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So Doug wants us to move 4 to weighting. 5 (Laughter.) 6 MR. BROOKMAN: That's what I want us to do. 7 MS. WIDDER: So I think we're going to have 8 to discuss the way we account for controls and motor 9 losses more. I don't think we're going to get there 10 today. So I think that's why we want to move on. 11 Tom has it. 12 MR. ECKMAN: I think conceptually what we 13 want to make sure is however that's resolved, that we 14 get the opportunity to differentiate between a 15 standard permanent magnet motor and the rest of the 16 classes of stuff that we're looking at. 17 MS. WIDDER: Right. 18 MR. ECKMAN: So that you guys can take 19 advantage of that by improving products, but not be 20 disadvantaged if that's what the product has in it. So 21 you want to be able to show that they have a different 22 response to loading than does the standard motor

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 152 1 product. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: And how is that accomplished 3 in this? 4 MR. ECKMAN: Well, you mentioned having two 5 default curves, if you will. 6 MS. WIDDER: Right. 7 MR. ECKMAN: One that has a different 8 response to partial loading, part loading and one that 9 doesn't or one that has a -- well, a differential 10 response. I think that's the important part. What 11 those actually look like is, you know, you're going to 12 have to derive somehow, but basically being able to 13 show that someone could insert instead of a default 14 minimum federal standard, get a better result by 15 putting in an ECM motor -- 16 MS. WIDDER: Right. 17 MR. ECKMAN: -- as a drive. And the same 18 thing with, you know, the -- I think if you start with 19 controls, 1.0, and then everything that is controlled 20 better than that is going to be improvements -- 21 MS. WIDDER: Right. 22 MR. ECKMAN: -- in your rating, then that's

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 153 1 a good standard point, but conceptually you want to be 2 able to take advantage of any improvement in that 3 three-chain event so that you can improve either the 4 drive or the control. 5 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 6 MR. ECKMAN: And any differentiation of the 7 curves in any one of those points needs to end up with 8 a higher PER or higher MEI or whatever we're calling 9 this. 10 MS. WIDDER: Better rating. 11 MR. ECKMAN: Whatever the rating is. 12 MS. WIDDER: Better rating. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Louis first, then 14 Steve. 15 MR. STARR: My only concern with what Tom's 16 talking about is kind of why it would be nice to have 17 MEI always available, is that essentially you could 18 pick a very low efficiency pump and a high efficiency 19 motor, but really effectively operate it in a, you 20 know, properly sized application and then actually it 21 would be really not saving any energy at all. 22 So it's kind of helpful because the engineer

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 154 1 will know whether it's going to operate a full load or 2 not, and so I don't know what the cost differential on 3 the pumps are, but if it's more than what the motor 4 is, there could be advantages to gaining it such that 5 you've got this really crappy pump and you compare it 6 with maybe an ECM motor and -- 7 MS. WIDDER: Well, one thing I just want to 8 respond just really quick, and then I think Mark 9 actually might be saying something similar, is we can 10 discuss what goes on the label from DOE's perspective, 11 but I highly doubt that our standard here will affect 12 the data that pump manufacturers make available to 13 design engineers, and there is -- I mean, those pump 14 curves that look at power versus flow at different 15 trims and efficiency and the BEP for that pump, I 16 mean, all that information will still be available. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg. 18 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 19 To Louis' point, I think we're going to have 20 to pass the PER number for the bare pump alone on most 21 applications. I mean, there's going to be very few 22 where we only sell it with a motor attached in the Lot

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 155 1 11 group we're talking about. So you're already going 2 to have to pass that minimum PER hurdle. So you're 3 not going to have that bad pump. You're going to 4 already cross that hurdle. 5 Now the next hurdle is you can improve the 6 motor or improve the control system also. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve, you're next. 8 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 9 Just thinking conceptually in terms of the 10 controls, you've shrunk the thing. I would say for 11 I'll say all types of controls. For example, there 12 might be applications where a two-speed control is the 13 best application, high speed or low speed flow. That's 14 all they need. 15 MS. WIDDER: Right. 16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: You know, it's simpler, 17 lower cost, as much or possibly as good energy 18 savings. So conceptually they account for all 19 different types of controls. 20 And then I guess another concept I want to 21 throw out there is I'm thinking that there's also 22 controls on multiple pump applications. I guess we're

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 156 1 just looking at individual pumps, but think about 2 sequencing of pumps as a control to maximize the 3 energy efficiency of the pumps. That's multiple pump 4 application. That's a control that's used that can 5 save energy, but I think we probably just want to 6 focus on individual pump for this one. 7 I'm just saying that that's another one as 8 well, but individual pump type controls. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck. 10 MR. POWERS: Yeah, a question I have to 11 Sarah is if the message that we have to communicate to 12 the field, I've been hearing all the talks; Al was 13 talking about how do we communicate. Charlie brought 14 up, you know, how we go about it. 15 The PER we were kicking around, and I know 16 we're not hung up on whatever, but maybe a better 17 definition of like we were saying maybe SER, system 18 energy, you know, rather than use that pump for the 19 overall because if you have a motor and a VFD and a 20 pump, again, it's not the pump only, even though the 21 factors and the way you guys are approaching it. I 22 think it's better to communicate to the consumer, you

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 157 1 know, it's the overall energy of this process, not 2 necessarily the piece of SER. Come up with something 3 that might benefit us, you know, a better metric. 4 MS. WIDDER: Yep, we can definitely. So two 5

-- 6 MR. POWERS: And whether it was SER, we were 7 just using SER, but whatever you think because I think 8 the pump over here in the equation is perfect on that 9 one slide you had, pump, motor and whatever, but I 10 think putting the pump over here for that whole 11 grouping might, you know, mislead the consumer. 12 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So those are some high 13 level discussions that we're going to take into 14 consideration and talk about probably next time also, 15 and maybe we'll have some more detailed slides at the 16 next meeting to talk about how we might account for 17 motor losses, and we'll have some maybe proposals or 18 thoughts about that and different methods accounting 19 for controls. 20 But do we feel like maybe we can talk about 21 these four load points if we all agree on those and 22 maybe the weighting?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 158 1 MR. BROOKMAN: I thought we were close. Mark 2 do you want to go first? And then I want to once 3 again turn to weighting. 4 MR. HANDZEL: I was just going to -- and to 5 answer your question, Sarah, yes, I think we can agree 6 on those four weighting points. 7 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 8 MR. HANDZEL: So from the manufacturer's 9 perspective we all would be in agreement to -- 10 MR. BROOKMAN: On the load point. 11 MR. HANDZEL: Right, on the load points, 12 right. 13 MS. WIDDER: On the load point. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Just kind of a quick 15 temperature, looking around the table here, no one 16 seemed to object to those four load points 17 significantly. 18 Doug? 19 MR. POTTS: I just had a question. I was 20 looking at the EU standards. That was 75 percent, 75 21 percent, 100 percent and 110 percent. I'm just 22 wondering why we're adding the 50 percent to load

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 159 1 point. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. Doug is asking why the 3 50 percent since that doesn't track with what the EU 4 is doing. 5 Greg Case. 6 MR. CASE: To answer Doug's question, that 7 was only for the MEI, and we're considering what the 8 EU calls the EEI or the energy efficiency index, which 9 is the pump drive and motor altogether. That MEI only 10 applied to the pump end only, so only the wet end. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks, Greg. 12 Now, Louis. 13 MR. STARR: Just above 100 percent seems a 14 little -- I don't know. It seems like it's going to 15 disfavor the VFD, and hopefully people aren't 16 designing things which don't really handle the load 17 that they're supposed to. So -- 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 19 MR. STARR: -- or less than 100. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 21 MR. HUBER: The 110 percent is 110 percent 22 of BEP. It's not a load.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 160 1 MR. STARR: We're not speeding over. 2 MR. HUBER: We're not over-speeding. We're 3 not overloading the pump. It's 110 percent of BEP. 4 MR. STARR: Okay. 5 MR. POWERS: It would be the full operating 6 range of the pump. 7 MR. HUBER: It gives you more of an 8 operating range, and then the constant speed pumps, 9 which there's still going to be a lot of them out 10 there, they generally operate between 110 and 75. 11 That's why the Europeans went with that for pump only. 12 MR. STARR: (Speaking from an unmiked 13 location.) 14 MR. BROOKMAN: So I'm taking it that 15 everybody is comfortable with this, with these load 16 points, and now we're moving on to weighting. 17 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So weighting, we had 18 initially discussed an equal distribution. Louis had 19 also suggested perhaps a normal distribution that 20 would more heavily weight probably the 50 and 75 21 percent load points depending on how we applied the 22 normal distribution.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 161 1 I don't know if there's other suggestions. 2 We had initially suggested an equal weighting for the 3 same reason that we suggested sort of the these 4 representative load points as due to a lack of data 5 and the variability of loads in the field and load 6 profiles in the field and all these different 7 applications of pumps. Some pumps go to multiple 8 applications. 9 So that's where the equal weighting came 10 from. It just seemed a pretty consistent thing, and 11 also it was what was suggested by HI in response to 12 the framework document. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock. 14 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 15 Just out of curiosity, I'm just kind of 16 curious if you did any sort of estimate of energy 17 usage, if you did an equal weighting versus, let's 18 say, 100 percent. At 100 percent what would be the 19 annual energy difference? 20 MS. WIDDER: At 100 percent? 21 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Well, it's equal weighting 22 at 50, 75, 100 and 110.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 162 1 MS. WIDDER: Oh. 2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: What if you just chose one 3 constant speed, let's say, 100 percent of BEP? 4 MS. WIDDER: Right. 5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: What would the difference 6 be in terms of an annual energy for I don't want to 7 say a typical pump, but for maybe a pump that you've 8 looked at? 9 MS. WIDDER: Right. So we did do some of 10 that. I don't have the numbers here and we didn't do 11 the very extreme scenarios that you looked at. We did 12 look at equal weighting, and then we looked at more 13 heavily weighting, 75 and 100; more heavily weighting, 14 50 and 75; and less weighting, the lower load points 15 less than -- I mean, actually didn't matter that much 16 because the improvement in power sort of overwhelms 17 the whole PER thing. 18 MR. ROSENSTOCK: What kind of variance did 19 you see? 20 MS. WIDDER: I would have to look back at 21 the numbers. This was a while ago. So I will bring 22 that to the next meeting.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 163 1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: I mean, that would help the 2 decision process -- 3 MS. WIDDER: Yep, it certainly would. 4 MR. ROSENSTOCK: -- in my mind. Thank you. 5 MS. WIDDER: Yep. Okay. Oh, one other 6 thing that Alison just mentioned, which I think is 7 worth adding, but we will bring examples to the next 8 meeting, is that if you change the weighting, it won't 9 change the ranking of pumps. It will just change the 10 value. 11 So in a way, the loading is arbitrary if 12 it's equally applied. That doesn't mean you don't 13 want to have a representative weight because you do 14 want your metric to be representative. We were 15 arguing that equal weighting is as representative as 16 anything else, but we certainly can bring whatever 17 data we have and some sensitivity analysis to the next 18 meeting. 19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 20 Thanks, because eventually that spills over 21 into the national impact analysis and the economic 22 analysis. So thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 164 1 MS. WIDDER: Right. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Paul Lin. 3 MR. LIN: Maybe can I make a suggestion? 4 Instead of bringing it to the next one, can you send 5 it ahead of time so we can -- 6 MS. WIDDER: Oh, yeah, yeah. We will try to 7 make materials available in advance, as much in 8 advance of the meeting as possible. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: So I'm still waiting for 10 comments on weighting. 11 Chuck Powers. 12 MR. POWERS: But before that, before I can 13 go any further with anything to be fair to us, 14 everything you've shown us today needs to come to us 15 today. 16 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 17 MR. POWERS: By email so we can share with 18 our other people and we can start studying this and 19 understanding their values and -- 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Or maybe tomorrow if they get 21 a chance to. 22 MR. POWERS: Whatever, next day or two.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 165 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Maximum. 2 MR. POWERS: Yeah, because -- 3 MR. BROOKMAN: But exactly as they've shown 4 it so that they can just make sure that they note 5 clerical errors, that sort of thing. 6 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Did we get comments on 8 weighting, on whether it should be equal weighting or 9 there should be more of a distribution? 10 Al Huber. 11 MR. HUBER: We looked at this as the HI. The 12 Europeans have looked at it. The problem you have 13 with trying to focus in on a load profile is that it 14 varies with the application. It varies with the 15 system. It varies with the designer, and many times 16 they may think they have that, but you really don't 17 know what the load profile is until you actually put 18 the pump in and check it. 19 So we believe that because we're trying to 20 come up with a comparison of product, right? I mean, 21 in the end that's what you're doing, that as long as 22 we equally weight it, then nobody will be favored.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 166 1 And answer Steve's issue with wanting to go 2 to why not do the 100 percent, the reason that the 3 Europeans went 75, 110 and 100 is they didn't want 4 somebody to come up with a pump curve or a design 5 where you just hit BEP and it went off -- it went, you 6 know, like this, and it off -- it went, you know, like 7 this, and on either side it didn't perform. 8 And we know that out in the field it's not 9 going to -- most of the time probably not going to run 10 at 100 percent. So that's the reason they did that, 11 was in order to protect the consumer, and we don't 12 disagree with that. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin. 14 MR. ADIN: I think just speaking for DOE's 15 case the biggest issue that we've had is there's just 16 so little data on what load profiles really look like 17 in the field. I mean, it's -- excuse me -- kind of 18 all over the place, and so, you know, if really we're 19 going to try and focus on what's most realistic, we 20 may never get there at least in the scope of this 21 negotiation. 22 But to get to the broader point of how these

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 167 1 load points might bear on calculations of national 2 energy use, national impact analysis, that sort of 3 thing, I think really what we're concerned about is 4 the comparison between the base case and the standards 5 case, and so if you use the same assumption for both, 6 you're still getting a measurement of what the 7 national energy savings would be, even if your 8 estimate of what the actual energy consumption is for 9 the base case isn't exactly accurate. At least you're 10 getting a consistent comparison. 11 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thanks. Steve Rosenstock. 12 That's extremely helpful, and the only 13 reason I mention the 100 percent at one of those 14 loading factors was just because it sounds like there 15 is a significant portion of the market that is 16 constant speed application, constant flow application. 17 So, again, depending on the data, depending on the 18 research, that could also have an impact on this. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg Case. 20 MR. CASE: I would agree there is a huge 21 portion of the market that is constant speed, maybe 22 not constant flow, but once again, it's not at 100

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 168 1 percent of BEP. It's some other spot. 2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Whatever it was -- Steve 3 Rosenstock, EEI -- whatever it was, I didn't mean to - 4 - I was just -- whatever that you thought it would be, 5 again. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 7 MR. STARR: Louis Starr with NEEA. 8 The equal weighing ultimately I think, kind 9 of what Sarah is saying, it probably doesn't matter 10 too much which one you use, the equal weighting or the 11 normal distribution, but the only other thing it 12 probably does matter is with the other items in the 13 metric, which are the motors and the VFDs, and that 14 probably makes a lot of difference with those guys. 15 So that kind of in the future and also if 16 you think about if you're headed towards the test 17 procedure, maybe not now but down the road are those 18 points going to work for you? 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Tom Eckman. 20 MR. ECKMAN: Yeah, I want to emphasize 21 Louis' point. In terms of the economic analysis, the 22 loading points are going to matter for pump efficiency

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 169 1 where you look at the whole system, but since we're 2 only varying pump efficiency and not the rest of the 3 system to set the minimum standard, it shouldn't 4 matter for that analysis either, but it could if we 5 were trying to think about this as a system 6 performance target, but we're not. We're talking 7 about the pump. 8 So we've isolated and said those are going 9 to be default values for the purpose of determining 10 the pump efficiency. So I think we're okay with equal 11 weighting because they're not going to enter into the 12 equation in terms of the determination of savings from 13 improving those other parts of the drive system. 14 If we were, that's a different matter, but 15 we're not. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: This is Alison. 17 I mean, we are hoping to be able to account 18 in the analyses for actual real life energy use. So -- 19 MR. ECKMAN: I understand that, but in terms 20 of the concern about biasing, whether we would -- if 21 we were talking about changing the efficiency of the 22 entire system and we are considering the system as the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 170 1 target for the standard as opposed to just the pump, 2 then the cost of putting in different controls and 3 higher performance motors to get to a system number 4 that was improved would matter, and then loading does 5 matter. 6 But as long as we're just talking about 7 isolating the effect of improving the pump itself and 8 holding those others constant, that doesn't change the 9 economic analysis nor the performance. 10 MS. WIDDER: Right. 11 MR. ECKMAN: So I'm okay with that is what 12 I'm saying. 13 MS. WIDDER: Good. And so one other thing, 14 just to tag onto Tom's point, in absence of data and 15 because we are isolating the pump as a starting point 16 in this rulemaking, those weightings are determined 17 for this rulemaking, you know, and so if we were -- if 18 DOE were to determine to reopen this rulemaking or 19 amend this rulemaking or amend the test procedure at a 20 later date, those weighting factors will still be 21 there as variables that can be adjusted to account for 22 either additional data or to improve the test

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 171 1 procedure or account for more controls, technologies 2 that we have a better means of capturing. 3 MR. ECKMAN: One comment just occurred to me 4 because I may have overstated my enthusiasm. For 5 integrated products, where those things are sold as a 6 box, drive, motor control, that's a different matter, 7 and we have -- all of those are options for an 8 integrated product in my mind because we're talking 9 about a thing that is pieced together from all pieces. 10 That's not just a bare pump assembly anymore. 11 MS. WIDDER: Right. 12 MR. ECKMAN: It is an integrated product. So 13 you have to be careful about the weightings when we 14 talk about an integrated product, if we're going to 15 rate something that way. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 17 MR. HUBER: Well, today many manufacturers 18 sell it as an integrated product. I know you've got 19 in the back of your mind circulators, but there are 20 others of us who sell product that we ship, a pump 21 motor and VFD mounted together on a base plate. The 22 horsepower is way beyond circulators.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 172 1 So I'm telling you, Tom, and I'm trying to 2 be as honest as I can, the information is not out 3 there, and you'll never get agreement with anybody on 4 the load factors. You've got municipal; you've got 5 industrial; you've got HVAC. You've got all these 6 things, and we're never going to agree to that. That's 7 why HI chose to say, look, the only reasonable 8 approach at this point is just equal distribution of 9 the load. 10 MR. ECKMAN: Trust me. I've been working 11 for seven years to get an end use load research 12 project off the ground. 13 (Laughter.) 14 MR. ECKMAN: So I'm with you. 15 MS. WIDDER: The other thing I'll just 16 clarify is to make sure we're all clear on the 17 application of the weighting. So we will account for, 18 to the extent possible and the extent we have any 19 scrapings of data, real load shapes in the energy use 20 analysis and will account for energy use and use these 21 load -- I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Alison -- but 22 use the efficiency at the load points, not the PER in

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 173 1 general, to represent the energy use for pumps. 2 And so even though we're applying equal 3 weighting in terms of determining the metric, that 4 doesn't limit us to assume equal weighting in the load 5 profiles that we apply for the energy use analysis to 6 determine the impacts of standards. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, I mean, but just 8 specifically the plan for the energy analysis to 9 actually take a database of pumps with real 10 performance data and match it to customers and real 11 with customers with loads and see where the energy use 12 falls out. So the weights aren't really there. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Fernstrom. 14 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 15 I agree with Al that applications vary 16 widely, and it's probably not practical to think we 17 can come up with a load factor for everything. 18 However, there are some niche applications where I 19 think we probably can come up with a reasonable load 20 factor and get the benefit of utilizing that in our 21 methodology. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis Starr.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 174 1 MR. STARR: So Louis Starr with NEEA. 2 The only other thing I was thinking about is 3 kind of trying to make sure that whatever point you 4 use your load points or whatever those points are is 5 that the data is being collected in other things, such 6 as AHRI 1210, and if they're doing stuff on the 7 motors, that you're able to leverage that information 8 down the road. 9 So whatever you pick can influence those 10 things. So it's just something to think about. 11 MS. WIDDER: Yeah, we -- 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Sarah. 13 MS. WIDDER: -- we definitely are 14 considering that. I think it's going to be difficult 15 due to the discrete nature of the pump size and the 16 motor drive size like we talked about before. You're 17 going to have to do some interpolation sort of no 18 matter what, but that's definitely something that 19 we've considered and can talk through how that might 20 work next time. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Chuck. 22 MR. POWERS: Chuck at Flowserve.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 175 1 I think also I know I just got some 2 correspondence from my team if this is the path we 3 take, and I've actually corresponded with a couple 4 other companies out there. We're going to probably 5 have to do an evaluation on the variance between EU, 6 and that's outcome numbers and impact, and what you 7 guys want to do. We'll have to do that ourselves. 8 And the reason is Charlie brought it up 9 earlier or Al or something. If, you know, 20 percent 10 of my product on a particular one, okay, is impacted 11 by this, but that same product if I'm lucky enough 12 that way, ISO or not ISO metric and all that, is built 13 offshore, then what we have to do is say, okay, how 14 many millions of dollars do we have to spend. 15 And this was a Flowserve. How many millions 16 of dollars do we have to spend to be compliant with 17 the 20 percent we make versus the other 80 percent 18 that EU is okay with or we're okay with or whatever? 19 And then to Charlie's point, if we had to 20 vary the designs and have two designs now rather than 21 one, you know, it could -- you know, we have to look 22 at all of that in the variables.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 176 1 Now, if you go to a smaller company, it 2 could be quite detrimental to them in a big way, and 3 because they may only be a domestic player and 4 whatever, and, okay, maybe the government only cares 5 that there are only 50 people in the company and we 6 can do away with them, fine, but that's not my mode 7 here, right? 8 Secondly, what I'm concerned about and some 9 of the communications I'm getting back is the 10 decisions here, which is great. There are a lot of 11 other factors involved, right, with going to the 12 market and how now we have to communicate to our third 13 party sales to say, hey, look. 14 Here's our pump gig and here's what we're 15 doing here, but you have to make sure on the motor, on 16 the VFD you follow these rules, too, because Big 17 Brother is going to come back to the pump guy and say, 18 "How are you managing this and how are you regulating 19 it?" right? 20 So there's a lot of pieces here because the 21 concern is right, wrong and indifferent, and there's 22 probably a whole level of reasons why, we used to be

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 177 1 the king of motors in the U.S. We are no longer. 2 They're all made offshore. 3 There is a handful. Don't get me wrong. You 4 can find a few here and there, but the motor 5 manufacturers are almost all offshore, right? And the 6 pump industry when we did some studies, 20 years ago 7 there were a lot of them in the U.S. There's not as 8 many in the U.S. There's still quite a few. 9 So we've got to be careful that the 10 migration -- and here's my concern -- I'm not arguing 11 we've got to do this. I'm not arguing that we have to 12 approve efficiency. Everybody's on board. I'm not 13 arguing that we have to improve technology and do some 14 good stuff. No argument. 15 Where it's made and where that technology 16 changes may be offshore because the costs are going to 17 be less. It's closer to the foundries which we all 18 know are offshore, the majority of them. So we get 19 closer to that technology, okay, we have to bring it 20 to the States and meet a certain criteria, but all of 21 a sudden the jobs here are lost and they go offshore 22 to be able to do that.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 178 1 It's all good stuff, but what we have to do 2 as pump guys, we're going to have to balance this. We 3 have to look at all of this and see where that's going 4 to be because it isn't going down to Walmart and 5 buying a unit off the shelf for your house. Okay? 6 It's a different ballgame here, a totally different 7 ballgame. 8 So it's just factors that we have to look 9 at. This is a real game here. This is not just a 10 couple sheets to get thrown at us the first day and 11 look at a couple of numbers and assume we're all 12 happy. It's not kumbaya. You know what I mean? 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve. 14 MR. THOMPSON: Steve Thompson, TACO. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. Try it. 16 MR. THOMPSON: How's that? 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 18 MR. THOMPSON: So the most efficient way to 19 drive your car is to have to modulate the speed of the 20 car with your foot on the gas pedal and not put your 21 foot on the brake pedal. So in an HVAC application 22 you're talking about different load points. I'm

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 179 1 seeing the word "flow" up there, and I'm trying to get 2 my head around what this -- the other part of this 3 point is, which would be "head." 4 MS. WIDDER: Oh. 5 MR. THOMPSON: And trying to match the most 6 efficient HVAC closed loop pump or circulator would be 7 one that would very closely match the system curve. 8 So the two technologies that are -- that 9 there's more than two technologies, but there's one 10 technology that's called self-sensing or sensorless 11 where the algorithms of the performance curves are 12 programmed into the drive, and it has a -- some have a 13 linearly inclining, straight line incline performance 14 curve. Some have parabolic incline performance curve 15 that's programmed into the drive. 16 How would you weight that control strategy 17 against pump and motor and frequency drive that 18 directly responds to a building management system? 19 So you've got a pump that reacts to a 20 building management system. Then you've got a pump21 motor-drive combination that has its own logic. How 22 would you weight those two different control

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 180 1 strategies? 2 MS. WIDDER: So that is an excellent 3 question, and so I'm going to -- I think there was two 4 parts there. The first was the load points and the 5 fact that they're a percentage of flow and there's no 6 head variable. So I'm just going to respond to that 7 really quickly and make sure we're all on the same 8 page, and I'm going to keep the question about a I'm 9 going to call it a closed loop control versus one that 10 responds to a building automation system. 11 So first, if you look at in B, you can see 12 the system curve with the darker green dots there. Let 13 me make this bigger or I could draw it, I suppose 14 might help. 15 Okay. So following this system curve down, 16 these axes aren't labeled, but the Y axis is head and 17 the X axis is flow, and so just in terms of specifying 18 the points, we're allowing the pump curve to -- so the 19 way this would go from a testing perspective is you 20 would determine the BEP flow and head point. 21 So there's a BEP flow and head point for 22 each pump, and then the loading points back from or

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 181 1 around the BEP flow and head point would be based on 2 flow, changing the flow variable only, and then head 3 we'll just change according to either the pump curve 4 if there's no control or according to the system curve 5 if there is control. 6 So we're just adjusting flow and letting 7 head be what it is, yeah. 8 MR. HANDZEL: So, Sarah, I think the answer 9 to Steve's question is that your factor is the same 10 for both because they both have a drive. Okay? So 11 you're not factoring in any sort of efficiency 12 improvement based on the control type. You're just 13 saying there's a drive. So this control factor goes 14 in here. 15 MS. WIDDER: So I didn't address that 16 question yet, but, yeah, you're getting ahead of me. 17 MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 18 MS. WIDDER: So in answer to that, so I was 19 just trying to get at his flow versus head, why are we 20 only talking about flow thing. But talking about the 21 different kinds of controls -- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Mark, do you want to jump in?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 182 1 MR. HANDZEL: Yes. I think what Steve was 2 trying to say is that there's different ways to 3 control the VFD. 4 MS. WIDDER: Right. 5 MR. HANDZEL: And different input signals, 6 you know, and the centralist one he was talking, and 7 it's really operating off the motor amperage is what 8 it's doing. 9 MS. WIDDER: Right. 10 MR. HANDZEL: Sensing amperage and 11 controlling that way -- 12 MS. WIDDER: Right. 13 MR. HANDZEL: -- versus the other one, truly 14 measuring the system head and what's needed in the 15 system, and it slows the pumps down to match the 16 requirement systems. 17 So it's a -- again, they're both a drive, 18 but -- 19 MS. WIDDER: Right. 20 MR. HANDZEL: -- they just have different 21 control inputs telling the drive what to do. 22 MS. WIDDER: Right. No, I'm totally with

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 183 1 you. So if -- and we're really just talking about A 2 here. I mean, that's where if we did a full wire to 3 water test, that performance would clearly be 4 differentiated. If we did B where AHRI 1210 data or 5 similar is available, we would also see that 6 difference in performance from like a straight line 7 system curve versus a parabolic system curve. 8 So B and C, I think we're okay there. They 9 allow us to differentiate between control methods 10 because there's physical testing at the load points. 11 Oh, sorry. 12 But for A, that's really where the rubber 13 hits the road, and that's what we're talking about 14 because it's the least burdensome to apply. So for 15 the default controls performance that we apply, this 16 load control factor for -- the difficulty is for every 17 type of control that we might want to differentiate or 18 represent, we would have to come up with a load 19 control factor that everybody applied in order to 20 differentiate. 21 So for that example, a VSD could have a 22 certain load control factor. Let's call it .46; a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 184 1 sensorless control that did a straight line. We could 2 specify them very clearly, would have a load control 3 factor of .6 instead because we're representing that 4 head isn't dropping off quite a quickly. 5 These are just hypothetical examples, but we 6 aren't limited to only one load control factor. It 7 could be load control factor A where A is whatever 8 control, and we can specify as many controls as we can 9 think of and specify a representative system curve for 10 each of those controls. 11 So how that would have the pump head reduced 12 or the power reduced as flow is reduced, we would need 13 this committee's help in generating that list of 14 representative control technologies. We can think of 15 some, but that would be something if we were to go 16 down this A path that would probably be something we'd 17 want to consider, is a list of technologies and a 18 different system curve resulting in a different load 19 control factor for each technology. 20 The struggle there is then we're locked in 21 to technologies in a way. So yeah. Okay. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 185 1 MS. WIDDER: So -- 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 3 MR. CAPPELLINO: Charlie Cappellino, ITT. 4 So, Sarah, if you go back to the previous 5 slide. 6 MS. WIDDER: This one? 7 MR. CAPPELLINO: Yeah. Are you envisioning 8 a regulation that would actually drive more use of 9 variable speed drives or adjustable speed drives with 10 the approach that we're taking here? 11 MS. WIDDER: So I'm -- 12 MR. CAPPELLINO: It's a fundamental 13 question. 14 MS. WIDDER: It is. 15 MR. CAPPELLINO: And what I'm trying to 16 understand is, again, it's this -- 17 MS. WIDDER: Right. 18 MR. CAPPELLINO: -- labeling idea and 19 understanding energy usage versus regulation, and I 20 keep going back to bare pump versus bare pump plus 21 motor. 22 MS. WIDDER: Right.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 186 1 MR. CAPPELLINO: And then the bare pump plus 2 motor plus drive, and how will regulation drive 3 because I think we all understand that in some 4 applications the variable speed drive or adjustable 5 speed drive does produce significant energy savings 6 and in some cases it doesn't. 7 So how does the work that you're doing move 8 us in the direction of energy savings and more 9 adoption of adjustable speed drives when it makes 10 sense? 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin. 12 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 13 MR. ADIN: Let me see if I can address that. 14 So to some extent it depends on what you mean by the 15 regulation because the way we've been discussing it 16 conceivably there would be two parts. There would be 17 the efficiency standard part of it, and then there 18 would be a labeling component, and each one of those 19 could have an impact on -- 20 MR. CAPPELLINO: Okay. 21 MR. ADIN: Right? So one affects the 22 physical changes that are being made to products being

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 187 1 sold in the market to make them more efficient, and 2 the way that we've conceptualized the development of a 3 standard, that focus is just on the pump, the bare 4 pump component of it. 5 So there would be efficiency improvements 6 made to the pump, and there would be an energy savings 7 associated with that improvement there. But then with 8 the way that this metric is being conceptualized and 9 the way it could be shown on a label for, you know, 10 the broader system type of pump out to the drive, then 11 you'd be showing the savings that are associated with 12 the use of variable speed drive. 13 So that would influence consumer choices. 14 MR. CAPPELLINO: It's more of a labeling 15 approach. 16 MR. ADIN: Right, and so conceivably there 17 are -- and you know, that might be a little bit harder 18 to quantify because we can't necessarily predict how 19 consumers will respond to that, but there is 20 potentially a significant savings to be realized from 21 consumers making choices based on that piece of 22 information.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 188 1 MR. CAPPELLINO: Okay. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Joanna. 3 MS. MAUER: Joanna. 4 Just in regards to your question, Charlie, I 5 mean, I think it maybe comes down to product classes 6 and, you know, would we set separate standards for the 7 three configurations, bare pump, pump plus motor, pump 8 plus motor and controls, or you know, we've tried to 9 do some thinking about, you know, could we define some 10 category of pumps where it would make sense to have, 11 regardless of whether you're selling a pump with just 12 a motor or a pump with a motor and controls, you'd 13 have to meet the same standard, and if you set a high 14 level, you could effectively require that pumps with 15 motors also be sold with a VFD. 16 MR. CAPPELLINO: For specific product 17 classes. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie, please use the 19 microphone. 20 MR. CAPPELLINO: For specific product 21 classes as far as that last piece is concerned? 22 MS. MAUER: So right. I think we've tried

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 189 1 to think about is there some subset of pumps where 2 that approach might make sense, and what we were 3 considering is, for example, low horsepower pumps 4 where our understanding is that pumps tend to be sold 5 with a motor by the manufacturer today, and that may 6 be a subset of pumps where a VFD is generally 7 beneficial. 8 And I don't know if those two things are 9 true or not, but we are trying to think about is there 10 a subset of pumps where they tend to be sold by the 11 pump manufacturer with the motor and where adding of 12 the VFD would, you know, generally be beneficial in 13 terms of energy savings. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas, do you want in here? 15 Okay. No? Steve Rosenstock. 16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 17 Again, just thinking about other products 18 that are regulated, lumens per watt for lighting or 19 EER or AFUE, it's the product, where the metric is for 20 the product. If the consumer adds a control or 21 there's a building code requirement for a control, 22 that adds on top of those savings that are required by

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 190 1 the standard. 2 So it's really up to this group and it's 3 eventually up to DOE in terms of, you know, what is 4 the boundary of the standard. What is it going after 5 in terms of generically improving the efficiency of 6 all pumps or generically not only improving the 7 efficiency of the pumps, but structuring the standard 8 such that for certain classes of pumps they're pretty 9 much going to have to put in some sort of control to 10 meet the efficiency standard. 11 Again, that's a high level, but again, just 12 have to just thinking about what's been done in the 13 past. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin. 15 MR. ADIN: It's a good question, and as far 16 as we're concerned, it's still an open question. I 17 mean, we don't want to suggest -- I mean, again, we've 18 stated this a bunch, ad nauseam. 19 But you know, by putting this up here we're 20 not saying DOE has decided this is what we can do and 21 it's the only way it can be done, but to the extent we 22 -- certainly to the extent we make a decision to set a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 191 1 standard for a certain subset of products or class of 2 products, whatever it is that would be designed to 3 compel the use of a variable speed drive based on the 4 standard level you set, obviously we need to know 5 really what are the economic considerations there. 6 So that's kind of obviously perhaps, but you 7 know, it would be another set of data that we need to 8 get and make sure we fully understand that. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis Starr. 10 MR. STARR: Louis Starr, NEEA. 11 Another thing to think about, if the 12 standards are set up in such a way there can be 13 utility programs that will essentially be a floor 14 that's set out there so that the utility programs to 15 incent the use of various technologies that make sense 16 and system designs so it can be a good way to increase 17 the adoption of certain things. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel. 19 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. 20 I mean, we're still, I think, struggling 21 with, you know, is there a requirement to put a drive 22 with all pumps are being sold or what's the definition

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 192 1 of when a drive needs to be used with a pump. 2 And I think, you know, we on the pump 3 manufacturers' side clearly see it as an application 4 type basis, but we know we can't regulate 5 applications. So we kind of feel like we're chasing 6 our tail, I think, a little bit right now. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 8 MR. HANDZEL: I don't want to speak for all 9 my fellow manufacturers. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, right. 11 MR. HANDZEL: But I think that's the 12 position we're in, trying to understand how this will 13 drive the market this way. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. So -- 15 MR. ADIN: Understood. I mean, to some 16 extent I feel like we're kind of going in circles a 17 little bit, but circulating, if you will. 18 (Laughter.) 19 MR. ADIN: Sorry. Got to get one in there 20 at least once a day. 21 So what we've proposed -- not proposed, but 22 I mean what we've put up here and what we've been

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 193 1 talking about wouldn't necessarily do that. Right? It 2 would -- 3 MR. HANDZEL: Provide a method of measure. 4 MR. ADIN: That's right, and you could write 5 a standard that just uses assumptions for those 6 configurations that use a drive. So really at the end 7 of the day you're just driving the pump efficiency to 8 improve. 9 The metric would allow for the use of other 10 components, the motor or the drive, that are above 11 that assumed baseline, and you could still represent a 12 number that's better than whatever the standard would 13 compel you to do. 14 But you wouldn't be in this particular case 15 setting a standard that compels someone who only 16 manufactures a pump or pump with a motor to put a 17 drive on it to meet the standard. You'd be comparing 18 a pump that's already sold with a drive to a standard 19 that's based on the use of a drive, not across those 20 configurations. 21 Does that help? 22 MS. WIDDER: Is it maybe worthwhile to

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 194 1 revisit the criteria upon which DOE must consider when 2 setting standards, like utility and economic impact? 3 So DOE has to account for all of those 4 things, the availability of - the utility of pumps for 5 a constant speed application, for example, as well as 6 the economic impact to manufacturers and consumers, as 7 well as energy savings when setting a standard. 8 So to do what Joanna -- in other equipment 9 classes, to do what Joanna talked about where the 10 standard is set in such a way that it, in effect, 11 compels a certain technology, DOE is limited in the 12 way that it can do that because it cannot limit its 13 utility or availability of products in the marketplace 14 that serve a particular need, if that makes sense. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Mark, please. 16 MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, Mark Handzel from Xylem. 17 And I guess, you know, when I sit and look 18 at businesses and markets, you know, Steve, obviously 19 you're heavily involved with ASHRAE 90.1. I could see 20 ASHRAE 90.1 taking this PER, whatever we're going to 21 call it, SER, whatever, and putting in a number and 22 saying for building applications, you know, variable

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 195 1 load applications, you will hit a PER of this. 2 You know, so for that market, I think 3 there's a regulatory way that it can be, you know, 4 mandated where it's very applicable. Other markets, 5 that's I guess the struggle. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve. 7 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 8 Well, ASHRAE just takes -- they publish the 9 efficiency standards typically either ASHRAE developed 10 of the ones from the federal government, and then they 11 add controls and drives on top of that. I mean, for 12 certain equipment if you have a motor that's over a 13 quarter -- now it's down to a quarter of a horsepower 14 for certainly applications -- you have to put a drive 15 on it for certain HVAC applications. 16 For other applications it's like five 17 horsepower. So they don't say what kind of drive. 18 They just say you have to put it in to add onto this 19 to make it more efficient. That's it. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. Louis, do you want add 21 on, and then to Gary? 22 MR. STARR: Yeah. Well, for 90.1-2013, for

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 196 1 fans that are less than two horsepower, which fans and 2 pumps are not that far apart if you think about it, 3 they require ECM motors. So that's a technology, 4 right? 5 So I mean, the standards, the 90.1 is doing 6 that, and they're just a prescriptive requirement. 7 They don't go into all of this, you know, complexity. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Fernstrom. 9 MR. FERNSTROM: So this is Gary. 10 What we're talking about here is intent, and 11 maybe the California example would be good to use to 12 illustrate our intent. It's what we've done with the 13 swimming pool pumps. 14 So that's a specialized application. It's, 15 you know, not big pumps. It's not all pumps in 16 general, but the intent was to try and find a way to 17 address through regulation not only new construction 18 but replacement because these products have a life of 19 about ten years, and they're usually replaced in the 20 whole, although you can replace the motor only. 21 We developed a metric that takes into 22 account the benefit of reduced speed operation. We

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 197 1 haven't required variable speed because we think 2 that's too big a step for the present, but we did 3 require two-speed for products over one total 4 horsepower. 5 And I hope through this proceeding we can 6 come to take a step forward in valuing the benefit 7 associated with controls and drives for reduced speed 8 operation, although I don't think we should go so far 9 as to do something that might require certain kinds of 10 controls at this point. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Paul Lin. 12 MR. LIN: Maybe my view is that -- and 13 that's why I was talking more about being able to 14 differentiate the watts of different technologies as 15 well as the control methodology -- is that not 16 necessarily setting a standard that would require 17 that, but having a method in which everyone is 18 evaluated the same, and then therefore, with our 19 utility partners can then have a method of having a 20 rebate program like our extended product discussion 21 that we were all kind of in. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 198 1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 2 There have been a lot of utility programs 3 out for years, and some of them cover drives and some 4 of them don't. 5 In terms of the DOE standard that's written 6 basically in the absence of any outside incentive 7 program, it's designed to be the minimum standard for 8 all products sold in the U.S., who are imported in the 9 U.S., regardless of how many, you know, how many 10 programs there are. 11 So it's always good to know and always to 12 see, you know, in terms of non-regulatory type of 13 analysis, but you know, when push comes to shove, it's 14 basically this is in the absence of outside 15 incentives. You know, this is going to be the 16 standard regardless of current incentives or past 17 incentives. This is going to be the standard from now 18 on after a certain date. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. Lucas Adin. 20 MR. ADIN: Just to follow on to that 21 comment, I mean, Steve's absolutely right that this -- 22 for the purpose of setting a standard, we're not

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 199 1 considering what utilities might do as far as 2 incentive programs, but certainly having a 3 standardized metric and test procedure that, you know, 4 a follow-on benefit to having those things, and so, 5 yeah, it would be potentially, right, helpful in that 6 respect. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: So to reiterate what Lucas 8 said about five minutes ago, to empathize with you, 9 Mark, and the fellow manufacturers, you're in kind of 10 right now, the stage of this negotiation that's kind 11 of in this "Netherland," it is an open question, what 12 gets regulated, the things for which standards get set 13 and the levels at which they get set. 14 Ad we're moving rapidly in that direction. 15 We've made huge progress in the last -- yesterday and 16 in previous days where we're setting ourselves up with 17 the metric and the test procedure discussion that will 18 begin with next time, and also zeroing in on this 19 scope to really, really get a much clearer picture of 20 how this is going to land on manufacturers and how 21 it's going to affect utility programs and affect the 22 energy savings that the energy efficiency advocates

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 200 1 are so interested in. 2 But having said that, I think we should take 3 lunch. We've made a lot of progress today. 4 Chuck, you're going to leave us at one. So 5 I think that means that when we return one o'clock, 6 you're going to be gone. 7 When we return from lunch and Charlie, and 8 maybe shortly thereafter you're going to be leaving as 9 well; when we return from lunch, I want to get any 10 additional questions, comments on the metric. I 11 thought we gained a lot of ground on that today, and 12 also look ahead to the next meeting or beyond the next 13 meeting to make sure that we're clear on what we need 14 to be put out there in less than three weeks. 15 Okay. So it's now almost one or noon, 16 almost noon. We'll resume at one o'clock and see you 17 back here. 18 Please make sure to wear your badges in the 19 building. 20 (Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the meeting 21 was recessed for lunch, to reconvene 22 at 1:00 p.m., the same day.)

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 201 1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's resume. 3 Hey, Jack, do we have folks joining us via 4 the Web? How many? Five individuals via the Web. 5 The Department of Energy, for those of you 6 joining us via the Web, tries to make these meetings 7 accessible to all via the Web. So welcome. Glad you 8 could listen in on this working group meeting. 9 At the lunch break, Alison queried Greg Case 10 and asked about the meeting. They deferred on dinner 11 and all recreation last night so they could meet at 12 length to compile data and do analysis. 13 I know this because this morning Al Huber 14 asked me for some sort of a statement that he could 15 give to the IRS to claim that it was actual meeting 16 time put in. 17 Anyway, Alison, do you have this information 18 now? Are you in a position to? 19 MS. WILLIAMS: Sure. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg said you would be doing 21 it, Greg Case. 22 Alison.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 202 1 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So we're just updating 2 the circulator data from yesterday. So the 3 manufacturers said they were going to collect an 4 estimated delta price for switching from AC induction 5 to ECM motors for the circulator. 6 So for the 1/25th to quarter horsepower, 7 they came up with $112.50 as the current price 8 differential. Using the terawatt hour savings and 11 9 cents per kilowatt hour, that's approximately $10 10 annual electricity cost savings. 11 So with a $113 delta price it's a 12-year 12 payback. However, just to note that the delta price 13 is the current market price, and it may be that, you 14 know, when we do -- if we did analysis for this, we 15 would look at actual cost differentials. We would 16 look at how it might change over time as the market 17 matures a little bit more. 18 So this is sort of just a snapshot in time 19 and does not necessarily mean that that 12-year 20 payback would hold for a long-term period. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Comments? Elucidations 22 from members of the manufacturing caucus? No? Nothing

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 203 1 additional? 2 Greg? 3 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 4 I guess that compares pretty well with our 5 calculation on Gary's data yesterday that we came back 6 with 13.5 years with your calculation, so bringing it 7 back down to 2,150 hours. So that's -- that seems 8 pretty reasonable. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Gary. 10 MR. FERNSTROM: Well, also that doesn't take 11 into account the -- I don't think adequately -- the 12 water recirculation utilization. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: So this is only constant full 14 load energy savings, switching from AC to ECM. So 15 it's really just reduced wattage of an equivalent ECM. 16 So it's not taking into account any sort of loading or 17 anything like that. 18 MR. FERNSTROM: So realistically in doing 19 this we looked at the opportunity to reduce speed a 20 little bit and we want to see factored into the 21 analysis the incidence of hot water recirculation 22 where we believe the operating hours are much higher.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 204 1 MS. WILLIAMS: So as I mentioned yesterday, 2 we were hoping to separate hot water from hydronic or 3 potable water from hydronic heating, but we cannot. 4 We're not able to because we don't have enough 5 differentiation of the material types for the 6 circulators. 7 So at this point we don't have that data. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Louis. 9 MR. STARR: So what's the wattage of the 10 pump that's for the $10 one and then the 37? 11 MR. CASE: One/twenty-fifth. 12 MR. STARR: One/twenty-fifth? 13 MS. WILLIAMS: So I guess so the $10 is 14 actually from the weighted average wattage between 15 1/25th and one quarter horsepower, which I don't 16 recall the wattage on that at the moment. 17 Can you look at -- Dan's going to look it 18 up. 19 MR. STARR: So that's 31 watts. You take 20 778, one horsepower and it's 1/25th. So divided by 20 21 to the -- that's 31 watts in terms of the energy. 22 Go.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 205 1 MR. WEINTRAUB: Dan Weintraub. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Get a microphone, Dan. 3 MR. WEINTRAUB: Dan Weintraub, Navigant. 4 As we've discussed with the manufacturers, 5 those nameplate horsepowers do not convert to actual 6 watts that are drawn by the motor, right? Your 1/25th 7 on average is about 85 watts, 90 watts, 100 watts, 8 something like that. So just to put it in 9 perspective. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Dan. 11 Gary. 12 MR. FERNSTROM: So this is Gary. 13 So I've been real clear about my two issues, 14 you know, one hot water domestic circulation and, two, 15 reduced speed operation. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. All right. Consulting 17 with Alison, are you finished presenting? 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Yep. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Consulting with Alison over 20 lunch, I was inquiring about the data that we 21 anticipate that's going to be available at our next 22 meeting, and she told me that she expects that Al and

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 206 1 the manufacturers, that their effort to obtain 2 additional data would basically get new data, we hope, 3 additional data on virtually all of the pump types 4 listed in yellow with the exception of circulators. 5 That is, she didn't anticipate any additional 6 information would be coming forth, any additional data 7 for circulators, and so -- go ahead, Al, please. 8 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson. 9 She currently has all the data we have. So 10 there will be no additional data. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: I think that's what I was 12 trying to say. 13 MR. HUBER: Yeah, and there will be no 14 additional data for that. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Which is, right, no 16 additional data on circulators. So what we have now 17 is what we're going to have next meeting and perhaps 18 the meeting thereafter maybe for the -- till the end 19 of this negotiation. 20 So go ahead, Gary. 21 I mean, aside from the data that you're 22 creating that your test --

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 207 1 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. Thank you, 2 Doug. 3 Right, you know, what we have now is what 4 we're going to have. We may get a little more 5 clarification of the market in California that we can 6 share with the DOE consultants. Certainly, we can't 7 do that nationally. 8 The price of electricity is considerably 9 different as a national average than it is where we 10 live. So we might choose to debate the price. We've 11 chosen the smallest size circulator pumps to analyze 12 here. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Yep. 14 MR. FERNSTROM: We've analyzed them only in 15 one mode of operation, which is at full speed. So I 16 think there's more discussion to have, but we're 17 zeroing in on all the information we're going to be 18 able to get. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Lucas. 20 MR. ADIN: So I guess I just have a 21 question, and this is for the group generally. 22 But with respect to the decision at hand,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 208 1 with respect to circulators which coming out of the 2 last meeting my sense was that it had less to do with 3 whether we're going to cover or whether we're going to 4 write a standard for circulators at all, but more 5 rather whether we're going to do it as part of this 6 rulemaking or follow-on, and so the question is: what 7 is it, for those in this group who are undecided on 8 that point, what is it that you think would help 9 clarify in your mind what we should do in that regard? 10 What would help you decide on that point at this 11 point? 12 Because certainly if we're going to 13 recommend it as something for a follow-on to the 14 ASRAC, we need to decide that or it would be better to 15 decide it relatively soon. 16 MR. FERNSTROM: Well, this is Gary. 17 I think you raise an excellent point. I 18 don't know how much information we're going to be able 19 to get to address this later in any way different than 20 we can address it now. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 22 MR. STARR: You know, one thought, too, is I

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 209 1 guess we're going to have a roll-up or roll-out of the 2 different pumps that were initially estimated in their 3 savings estimates, and so it looked like those numbers 4 weren't so accurate. So the pump guys are going back 5 and providing information. 6 And so there's different classes of pumps 7 and how much national energy savings or I can't 8 remember if it's put out that way, but how much 9 national energy savings for each one of the classes of 10 pumps. 11 So, you know, I guess the circulators are 12 going to be part of that, too, and you know, there's a 13 lot of things in here on these analyses. Like the 14 national energy savings is assuming a five-year life 15 of these pumps, and it might realistically be ten 16 years. Well, that's not just a factor to 30-year 17 shipment. So we have -- 18 MS. WILLIAMS: I changed it to seven to ten 19 years. 20 MR. STARR: Oh, okay. But anyway, there's a 21 lot of things that sort of roll up and change those 22 numbers, and you know, in my mind there should be at

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 210 1 least somewhat of a -- there's a more accurate 2 analysis that would be done, you know, rather than 3 just assuming that a certain number of hours -- and 4 it's kind of really I see it as sort of DOE's role to 5 kind of come up with some of those numbers so that a 6 decision could be made similar with the other pumps. 7 So the same exercise that we started out 8 with initially, and everybody looked at the numbers 9 and they had some problems with them, but then that -- 10 that would have the same kind of similar analysis 11 coming up with an energy savings. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. 13 I mean, I think I'm just going to respond to 14 part of this, and Lucas can jump in or whatever, but, 15 I mean, the data that the manufacturers are providing 16 for us from the 25 manufacturers is for pumps only. 17 These are updated circulator numbers from what we 18 showed last time. We already received updated data 19 from the circulator manufacturers, and this is it. 20 A more extensive analysis is pretty time 21 consuming for circulators, and so at this point we 22 have focused our resources on creating models for the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 211 1 11 type pumps. We would have to create essentially 2 completely different models with different 3 assumptions, different structural things, all sorts of 4 things for circulators. 5 So just from an analytical standpoint, it's 6 a little more difficult. I mean, our plan with the 7 data that they provide us for the green and yellow 8 pumps, not including circulators is to redo the energy 9 use estimates and to do an estimate of the energy 10 savings from increasing pump efficiency to a few 11 different levels, and that's that the level of 12 analysis that we hope to be prepared to present next 13 week as far as those pump types, to help determine if 14 they're involved or not. 15 And the full analyses, LCC energy use, 16 national energy savings, typically we're not planning 17 to do until pump types are decided for coverage. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Yesterday -- I think it was 19 yesterday -- the question was if DOE tried to do 20 analysis on all of this would that diminish their 21 capacity to do more detailed analysis on a subset of 22 these pump types, and I think you're sort of answering

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 212 1 that question. 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. I mean, so 3 specifically for circulators from an analytical 4 standpoint, we would conduct separate engineering 5 analysis, separate energy use analysis, separate LCC. 6 Many of the other pump types in yellow we could 7 probably fold into the existing structure of the 8 analyses that we already have planned for the ones in 9 green. 10 So the circulators are a little bit 11 different of an animal analytically to pursue and 12 potentially with the test procedure as well. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Fernstrom. 14 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 15 So, Alison, we're not suggesting that a 16 different form of analysis needs to be done. We're 17 simply asking that in the next few weeks you revisit 18 with us some of the basic assumptions that were made 19 in this analysis. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 21 MR. FERNSTROM: And you know, we'd be happy 22 if we could have that discussion with you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 213 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. And so you would 2 do that in between the meetings? 3 MR. FERNSTROM: Yes. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 5 Steve Thompson. 6 MR. THOMPSON: So just for clarification, 7 there is more data that we sent you folks that hasn't 8 been presented yet, and that was the manufacturing 9 impact on switching motors over to ECM motors. So I 10 don't know if everybody has responded to you on that 11 part, but I know we did. 12 Gary, to your point about annual operating 13 hours on domestic hot water recirc. pumps, the 14 analysis and the 2,150 hours or 2,160 hours for a 15 heating circulator is based on a six-month season 16 running that circulator 12 months a day or -- pardon 17 me -- 12 hours a day, which is probably more -- it's 18 probably more than actually in reality happens. In a 19 domestic hot water recirc. we -- HI came up with the 20 same number, the 2,160 hours, that's running a 21 domestic hot water recirc. six hours a day 12 months 22 of the year.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 214 1 So if you're circulate -- if your domestic 2 hot water recircs. Are running more than six hours a 3 day, then that's like -- that's like penalizing 4 circulator manufacturers the same way you would 5 penalize automotive manufacturers by not turning your 6 car off. That's not as much a function of the 7 technical design of the circulator as it is as much a 8 function of how you're turning it on and off, my 9 opinion. 10 MR. FERNSTROM: Well -- 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Fernstrom. 12 MR. FERNSTROM: -- this is Gary. 13 Are you suggesting that residences only wish 14 to have and have instant hot water at their tap six 15 hours a day? 16 Many of the residents I have seen simply 17 operate their hot water recirculation pumps 24 hours a 18 day so whenever they go to the tap they get hot water. 19 MR. THOMPSON: There's more and more 20 technology -- Steve Thompson of TACO. Did I do that 21 right? 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 215 1 MR. THOMPSON: Okay. There's a number of 2 various different control strategies that will 3 actually enable domestic hot water circulator. There's 4 self-learning technologies where they'll learn the 5 consumer's usage. There is wireless sensors that 6 actually -- motion sensors that can tell you when the 7 person walks into the room. 8 There's 24-hour timers that are set to turn 9 the pump on when you schedule it. So and I'm not 10 suggesting that an ECM domestic hot water circulator 11 is not going to save energy. It's going to save and 12 we talked about this. At least 50 percent of the 13 electrical energy is going to be saved right off the 14 bat by going from standard AC to ECM circulators. 15 I'm just - it's hard for the circulator 16 group or the Hydraulic Institute to come up with some 17 quantifiable hours of operation. That's what makes it 18 tough. 19 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 20 I agree with you it's tough to come up with 21 these hours of operation, but I'm telling you that our 22 observation is that these available and capable

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 216 1 control systems are not used, and they're not used 2 particularly in retrofit where a domestic hot water 3 recirculator may fail and the plumber goes out and 4 just replaces it. 5 The plumber goes out and says, "I'm going to 6 have to be replacing your circulator pump. I can put 7 in this control system that's going to save you some 8 money for several hundred dollars." 9 There doesn't seem to be a discussion around 10 "by the way, I could sell you this more efficient 11 circulator which is going to save you a lot of energy 12 regardless of how you may turn it on and off," and I'm 13 just trying to get to the point where we might 14 encourage or require by standards the more efficient 15 circulator which is going to have a big market effect 16 in the retrofit market, where these capable but 17 sophisticated controls don't seem to be utilized. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Louis. 19 MR. STARR: You know, in terms of the 20 analysis I was talking about, I'm not talking about a 21 full-blown, you know, DOE-whatever life cycle cost 22 analysis. I'm just talking about some more basic

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 217 1 things. 2 I mean, I guess I just start out here, I 3 mean, the cost savings, we're looking at the smallest 4 pump that there is in the one-quarter horsepower. You 5 know, there's kind of understanding what that wattage 6 is and some, you know, using the 2,100. Perhaps 7 that's reasonable for the smallest class. 8 The next class up or even in the one-quarter 9 size, it's really a commercial application most 10 likely, and so then we're talking about maybe running 11 all the time that the building is available, which is 12 4,000 hours. 13 And then you talk about the lifespan of the 14 pump. Well, that changes your energy savings by more 15 than a factor of three or four probably when you went 16 from five years to ten years. So there's a whole 17 bunch of things like that. 18 The price, you know, probably fine with the 19 price on that, but just some more robust kind of 20 numbers in there that kind of maybe reflect, you know, 21 essentially maybe a little bit of DOE analysis. I 22 think we saw that in the first place. I think they

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 218 1 had 155 watts as the original number, and so I think 2 we've reduced down a little bit from that number to 3 get the $10. 4 So there's just a number of things in there 5 that I'd kind of like DOE to come up with, and this 6 is, you know, just a spend an hour on it and come up 7 with some numbers and show them. That's what I'd be 8 interested in. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks for the 10 clarification. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: I mean, so I'm just going to 12 throw a couple of things out there, right? 13 I mean, I think these wattage estimates are 14 much better. We got detailed data from the 15 manufacturers on wattage of their products. So I 16 think this is better than it used to be. 17 In terms of better estimating operating 18 hours, we can take a look at that. One of the key 19 pieces we're missing is the percentage of pumps that 20 we think are in heating versus plumbing recirculation 21 applications. 22 I know from HI's estimate there's not much

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 219 1 difference, but if we wanted to look at different 2 numbers, we would need to have some idea of that split 3 in the circulator sales, but I don't know if that's 4 something because we weren't -- because we couldn't -- 5 MR. HANDZEL: Xylem didn't give that to you, 6 but I'll get that to you. 7 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 MR. HANDZEL: Okay? So I mean we do have 9 that, and I can get that to you. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. That would be great. 11 So if we can get that number from some more 12 manufacturers, then we can do a little bit more 13 variations in the operating hours' estimates. 14 MR. STARR: Isn't the quarter -- this is 15 Louis -- isn't the quarter horsepower -- is that not 16 going to be a commercial application or are there -- 17 MR. BARBOUR: Are you talking 1/25 18 horsepower? 19 MR. STARR: No, no. The one-fourth, three 20 horsepower. 21 MR. HANDZEL: He's saying the 90,000 units 22 in one-quarter to three horse.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 220 1 MR. STARR: Okay. So that class is 2 definitely commercial. So the one-quarter, the 1/25th 3 to one-quarter, is that -- is any section of that 4 commercial at all? 5 MR. HANDZEL: A very small portion of it 6 would be, you know, but again, Louis, the problem is, 7 you know, we sell those products all to the same 8 people. So we -- you know, we can give you estimates, 9 but all they are are our best estimates of where we 10 think they go. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: That was Mark Handzel. 12 Al, do you want to weigh in here? 13 MR. HUBER: Yeah, Al Huber, Patterson. 14 With the data that I think has been 15 presented, it's -- you know, it appears to us that the 16 savings are not there. However, if Louis feels like 17 you need some more information, we certainly, you 18 know, are willing to listen to it, but at the same 19 time, this is a very different product, and we've 20 offered to negotiate that separately, and we think 21 that's probably what needs to happen here. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 221 1 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 2 I'd agree with Al that based on the analysis 3 that's presented so far the savings don't look very 4 impressive. However, we haven't looked at the cost. 5 So the question is what is the value of 6 savings relative to the cost, and I continue to 7 believe that the estimate of savings is going to be -- 8 continued to be subject of debate here. 9 You know, we'll provide information that 10 will give a different perspective on that. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Bob. 12 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour with TACO. 13 I'm not sure what Gary means by cost because 14 I thought the differential was shown here on the 1/25. 15 It was the $112 differentiate. 16 Yeah, that's consumer cost. 17 MR. FERNSTROM: Okay. I may have to revise 18 my thinking here because Bob is correct. The cost is 19 shown, and it's very similar to what we found. I am 20 agreeing with you. The cost is shown and it's similar 21 to what we found. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 222 1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 2 I look at numbers all the time, and 3 obviously like everyone said, depending on the 4 application, the payback is going to vary probably 5 anywhere from three to 12 years depending on the 6 application, the hours of use, and type of control 7 you're using. 8 The bigger issue is, as Lucas and Alison 9 were saying, is for this group should it be -- again, 10 it all gets back at a high level. Should this be part 11 of this negotiation and rulemaking, yes or no? That's 12 -- you know, we're going to get a range of answers. 13 Let's face it, and the answer is at some point we have 14 to say yes or no, and it's probably especially because 15 that way for a lot of people to know, et cetera, in 16 terms of time and resources to analyze the data, 17 that's what it boils down to. Should the circulators 18 be a part of it? 19 And I think we're getting good information. 20 Gary is going to present more information, but at some 21 point we're all going to have to decide if we can get 22 consensus as part of this rulemaking or as another

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 223 1 possibility to say circulators as part two. 2 I'm just going to throw that out there at a 3 high level. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Should we consider taking a 5 vote today on this? Gary. 6 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 7 In answer to that question, no, I don't 8 think we should because there's more information to be 9 found, but I think we're close to having all we can 10 learn and taking a vote. 11 The other thing is with regard to the cost, 12 what we're showing here is what appears to be the 13 current retail cost difference, price difference, not 14 what the ultimate price difference would be, seeing 15 the benefits of economies of scale in production. 16 So my off-the-cuff guess is the PM ECM motor 17 probably isn't any more than $20 more expensive that 18 the induction motor it would replace, but looking at 19 the current retail cost difference, the PM products 20 are produced in relatively small quantities and sold 21 at a premium because they offer benefits to the 22 customer.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 224 1 The induction motor products are commodity 2 products sold in large quantities with relatively 3 lower margins. So we're going to see this incremental 4 cost reduce between now and when any rule might become 5 effective. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve, I would note that when 7 you -- pardon me -- Gary, I would note that when you 8 made your estimate, several other members in the room 9 kind of rolled their eyes and -- 10 MR. FERNSTROM: Well, let me give an 11 example. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: -- didn't think you landed on 13 the mark there. 14 (Laughter.) 15 MR. FERNSTROM: I'm sure they did. My 16 freezer unfortunately failed about a year ago, and 17 three or four weeks ago I fixed it. It turned out the 18 evaporator fan motor had frozen, not literally, but it 19 stopped turning, and all I had to do was touch it, and 20 it started turning again and it has been working fine 21 ever since. 22 But the evaporator fan motor in the back of

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 225 1 my refrigerator is a small split-phase motor similar 2 to what used to be used in phonograph turntables, and 3 after we quit using phonographs, there were a surplus 4 of these motors. They found their way into 5 refrigerators. 6 I priced the replacement product. It was 7 $35, but I could go down to Radio Shack and buy a PM 8 computer fan motor for $12 that would perform a lot 9 better and serve the same utility in my freezer. 10 I realize we're not talking about freezers 11 here. We're talking about pumps, but I think the same 12 opportunities exist with regard to cost reduction as 13 these products become commoditized as contrast to 14 specialty items. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Paul Lin. 16 MR. LIN: Let me just comment because, you 17 know, from a general ECM standpoint I think we've 18 looked at those before, and I think from a cost 19 standpoint I would say that that would be probably 20 greater than $20 difference between that, but you 21 know, I know the Navigant guys have experience tearing 22 down our ECM controls, and you know, they compare the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 226 1 difference between the ECM circulator design versus 2 the designs that they've torn down relative to the 3 HVAC side that they can come up with a rough 4 estimate. 5 MR. FERNSTROM: This is Gary. 6 But, yes, Paul. Correct me if I'm wrong 7 though. The products that you make and sell into the 8 circulator market would generally be considered to be 9 greater than 1/25 and 1/16 horsepower; is that 10 correct? 11 MR. LIN: We would, but also we do make ECM 12 motors in the same wattage range for walk-in coolers 13 and freezers. So regardless of the application, it's 14 the output that really matters, and I know from our 15 cost basis there's a delta. 16 MR. FERNSTROM: So those motors you make for 17 walk-in applications would be for fluid movement or 18 for air movement? 19 MR. LIN: For air movement. 20 MR. FERNSTROM: Okay. So we're talking 21 about a different thing here. I'd just like to 22 establish that. You don't make motor products in the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 227 1 1/16 and 1/25 horsepower range that are utilized on 2 circulator pumps circulating fluids. 3 MR. LIN: Correct, and just saying in 4 general if you're a motor control, you don't care what 5 you're driving, right? You -- the only thing that you 6 care from a motor control standpoint is how much 7 output you're giving out. 8 So it's air agnostic to the load. 9 MR. FERNSTROM: I didn't say anything about 10 the control. I was simply speaking about the PM 11 motor. Do your motor products include a control that 12 would cost more than $20 or are you speaking simply of 13 the PM motor without any control? 14 MR. LIN: I'm speaking that if you're 15 looking at an induction motor versus an ECM in that 16 wattage range, we see a greater than $25 delta. 17 MR. FERNSTROM: And would that ECM motor 18 that you referred to include a control or not? 19 MR. LIN: Yes. 20 MR. FERNSTROM: Okay. So I'm speaking about 21 one that would not include a control. 22 Thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 228 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Louis. 2 MR. STARR: So Louis with NEEA. 3 I think what would help is just maybe a 4 little more transparency, and this would be DOE 5 contractors doing some analysis of the numbers that 6 fill in those columns and then the final -- the 7 overall annual or I'm going to call it the savings 8 over 30 years, whatever that's called. 9 And I think what will help is that the other 10 pumps that you have, you're rolling out and you're 11 getting the information in March. You're going to 12 have basically all of these classes of pumps that are 13 in yellow, I believe. 14 You're basically going to have energy 15 savings associated with those guys, too, and that was 16 kind of an exercise we did our first time as we were 17 looking at the relative energy savings between classes 18 of pumps and figuring out where the opportunities are. 19 I guess there's two things. One, there's a 20 logistical problem that there's different test 21 procedures for these pumps than the other ones. So 22 it's easier to add on maybe a double suction pump than

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 229 1 it is a circulator because you have a whole new test 2 procedure. 3 So I realize that difficulty, and the only 4 thing I would say is that ultimately it's the energy 5 savings I'm thinking about. That will also help to 6 figure out whether there even needs to be another 7 rulemaking or not, right? 8 If there's so little energy out there to be 9 saved, are you really going to dedicate a whole 10 rulemaking to one quad of energy as a separate 11 rulemaking? 12 Like any of these pumps, I don't know that 13 you would necessarily do that because there's such 14 small savings, and DOE, you only have so many 15 resources. Are they really going to spend the 16 resources chasing after such a small amount of energy? 17 So part of the thought is that it may not be 18 efficient for DOE to start another rulemaking. So 19 that's kind of some of the aspect of keeping it part 20 of this. Since it's a pump, it's more favorable to 21 have it in this rulemaking, but I realize there's some 22 logistical problems with it.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 230 1 But it's something for DOE -- maybe you can 2 talk about that a little bit, Lucas, as far as how you 3 might see that. 4 MR. ADIN: Well, so this is Lucas. I don't 5 want to say categorically that we would decline to do 6 a rulemaking purely on the basis of an initial 7 estimate about what the savings might be. I mean, 8 there are a lot of -- obviously, for one thing, there 9 are a lot of different ways of evaluating the 10 potential energy savings. 11 Gary brought up some points that are very 12 good that we need to evaluate. We need to look at, 13 you know, realistically what might the savings look 14 like, what might the economic aspects look like that 15 would rely on a lot more involved analysis that, as 16 Alison mentioned, we haven't done yet. That would 17 come farther out. 18 So, yeah, I mean, sitting right here, I have 19 no particular reason to say that DOE would not do 20 that. I think we've been pretty clear that it's 21 something that we're willing to consider. You know, 22 if the group says we're just not ready yet, and I

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 231 1 think for DOE's purposes we have some practical 2 limitations that would prevent -- well, or at least 3 limit our ability to analyze these particular products 4 in a way that I think they properly should be analyzed 5 within the time frame that we've been talking about 6 for this rule. 7 So that's the practical side of it. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary. 9 MR. FERNSTROM: And this is Gary. 10 I'd just like to say for the record for our 11 friends in industry I'm willing to accept the outcome 12 even if circulators don't make sense. I just want to 13 make sure that we give it the proper consideration 14 before we come to that conclusion. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock. 16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: To follow up with Gary, 17 maybe for the next time, again, it could be either a 18 vote or a straw poll, you know, less official. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: As I said before, I'm not a 20 big fan of straw polls, but I'm thinking -- 21 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Okay. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: -- maybe we should take a

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 232 1 straw poll at this one. 2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: And I'll just throw out 3 three options: include circulator pumps; have 4 circulator pumps as a second stage of a -- of a -- 5 second stage of a rulemaking after this one; or a 6 third one, just don't include circulator pumps. Those 7 could be three possible options to look at. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, I was thinking maybe we 9 should just maybe take a straw poll to see how many 10 people want to proceed to three options or even take - 11 - consider taking a vote today. Just get a -- you 12 know, just to get a sense of where people are in their 13 decision making process. 14 So I'd like to pose the question. If you 15 think it's worth further discussion and considering 16 taking a vote today on whether circulators should be 17 excluded, let's just get a sense. How many people 18 think it's worth pursing that today? Raise your 19 hands. 20 This is a straw poll. This is not a formal 21 vote. I'm taking the temperature of the members 22 present whether you think it's worth trying to have

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 233 1 more discussion on this today and push it to an actual 2 vote to obtain -- to see whether we have a consensus 3 on this point or not and just see from the individuals 4 in the room, vote if you think this deserves more 5 discussion and we should push it toward a vote today. 6 So was that not clearer? 7 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Oh, it's actually clear 8 MR. BROOKMAN: That was clear. This is just 9 a -- 10 (Laughter.) 11 MR. BROOKMAN: This is a straw poll. All 12 those that think that we should consider pushing -- 13 Doug? 14 MR. POTTS: Can I ask a question? So the 15 question is whether or not we should have more 16 discussion, correct? Or is there an Option B of 17 proceeding to a vote without more discussion? 18 MR. BROOKMAN: No. If we're proceeding to a 19 vote, then we need more discussion, I think. 20 MR. ROSENSTOCK: But today. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, yeah, because we have 22 another hour and a half almost, and there's not a heck

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 234 1 of a lot on the agenda in additional, and we've heard 2 that there's not going to be a lot of additional data, 3 maybe some, and I was just curious about where the 4 members stand on this. 5 Lucas, go ahead. 6 MR. ADIN: Well, maybe this is more of a 7 question for some of the members who are still 8 considering the issue of circulators in particular. 9 Given that we expect we're going to have a little bit 10 more data and some analysis on those other pump 11 categories in yellow, does the outcome on those have 12 any bearing on what you're thinking about with respect 13 to the circulators in particular? 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Tom Eckman. 15 MR. ECKMAN: Yeah, looking at the Slide 16 16 of a prior presentation where you had sort of a back17 of-the-envelope estimate of what the potential usage 18 was but not necessarily savings, you know, there are 19 things in Lot 11 that are order of magnitude similar 20 to the circulators. 21 So the question is, you know, why take them 22 off if there's things in Lot 11 we're going to deal

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 235 1 with that are comparable in size, and the things in 2 Lot 11 don't indicate potential improvement 3 necessarily. You know, all we know is what the load 4 is or an estimate of the load. 5 We have some option here where there's an 6 ECM possible substitute for a standard motor that 7 gives us a fairly sizable improvement, not just -- you 8 know, total load is one thing, but the ability to 9 improve. The pump efficiency can only go up a few 10 notches, and we're not going to even -- and the load 11 is small to begin with -- we're not going to get a lot 12 of terawatt hours' worth of savings. 13 This one has an opportunity for improvement, 14 a fairly substantial one, even though the total load 15 isn't all that big. It has a bigger potential for 16 savings relative to its total given the option there. 17 Now, that's because it's sold as an 18 integrated product. That to me is a reason to 19 consider, you know, the resource allocation of going 20 forward, whether it's now or we talk as a follow-on, 21 and I'm perfectly fine -- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Al Huber.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 236 1 MR. ECKMAN: -- fine having that rank 2 ordering so we have something in mind saying, "Well, 3 we're not going to touch things below this." 4 Well, I don't know that everything we're 5 looking at is below that already. 6 MR. HUBER: It could be. Al Huber, 7 Patterson. 8 I think from an industry standpoint, we 9 don't have any problem in delaying this discussion 10 until we have all the data on all the pumps we're 11 considering and then we can take them all up. But I 12 think what the DOE and the Navigant is trying to tell 13 us is they don't think they can get there with that 14 category because they can't get the analysis done for 15 circulators. 16 I mean, that's what I heard. Maybe I'm 17 wrong, but -- 18 MR. ADIN: So, Al, I think -- 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas. 20 MR. ADIN: -- you're basically correct. I 21 mean, there's not a whole lot more we can do with what 22 we have right now. We can do some tweaking based on

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 237 1 changes to the assumptions that are being used to 2 generate, you know, some of these basic life cycle 3 costs and payback period for circulators, but there's 4 not a whole lot more that we're going to get without 5 doing a much more involved analysis which, as Allison 6 stated, would be potentially quite a bit different for 7 circulators than it would be for other types of pumps. 8 So -- 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Are you able to say -- answer 10 the earlier question, the one that I reposed ten, 15 11 minutes ago? 12 If the consultant team of DOE were to devote 13 its resources to doing that analysis in circulators, 14 would that detract from its ability to do the analysis 15 on the other classes of pumps that are here? 16 MR. ADIN: Yes. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. That was 18 clear. Thank you. 19 MR. ECKMAN: This is why I think -- Tom 20 Eckman -- why we were discussing the potential for an 21 adjunct to follow this to deal with that, because the 22 work load could be leveled out a little bit and still

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 238 1 get to it, and so I think we still have that as an 2 option. 3 Whether we want to pursue it or not, I'm 4 willing to take a look at the data relative to the 5 other motors that are in Lot 11 or -- motors -- 6 relative to the pumps that are in Lot 11 and see are 7 we dealing with the same magnitude of -- if it's worth 8 doing for some, it will be worth doing for that. If 9 it turns out it's not in the range of options here or 10 it does not turn out to be an economic choice, then 11 you know, we're spinning our wheels. 12 I think we're willing to take a look at the 13 data and make a decision. That's where we're at. Tom, 14 that was helpful. 15 And, Al, your comment was also helpful. 16 Bob Barbour. 17 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour with TACO. 18 I was just curious. How does the DOE take 19 into consideration the estimate as far as what it 20 would cost manufacturers to switch over? How does 21 that work into this whole scheme? It's such a large 22 number I know for our company.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 239 1 MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. 2 Dan can jump in if he needs to, but so 3 typically does only looks at increased cost based on 4 materials and labor and stuff. Our plan for this 5 rulemaking is to look at conversion costs of switching 6 over and to develop a method to disperse that cost 7 across product lines based on conversations with the 8 manufacturers and how we think, you know, that might 9 increase the manufacturer markup for different 10 products to recoup the costs that they have invested 11 in switching over and to basically account for that in 12 the MSP. 13 So you would -- 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Bob, go ahead. 15 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour again. 16 Does that take into consideration or is 17 there any kind of mechanism in there where you 18 actually look at whether or not a company may be 19 forced to go overseas? 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Oh, hold on. 21 MR. WEINTRAUB: Dan Weintraub, Navigant. 22 So, yes, there's a whole manufacturing

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 240 1 impact analysis section that will be performed. That 2 is in the whole bulk of the analysis, the rulemaking 3 analysis. It's not something we can do up front as 4 part of a back-of-the-envelope calculation. 5 But, yes, it's called the manufacturing 6 impact analysis. It's essentially a discounted cash 7 flow model of the industry as a whole looking to see 8 how manufacturers as a whole, how they are affected 9 and whether things are going -- will go downhill 10 quickly or not, and that will all come into play. 11 DOE uses that to help them make their 12 decisions on where they're going to set a standard. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Once you've determined the 14 scope clearly. 15 MR. WEINTRAUB: Yes, yes, yes. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 17 MR. WEINTRAUB: And that's the reason that 18 all of this manufacturing cost information was 19 collected. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Tom Eckman. 21 MR. ECKMAN: Yeah. Having been here several 22 times before, I can tell you that the manufacturing

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 241 1 impact analysis does weigh in DOE's decision making 2 process and, in fact, has reduced the standard level 3 that they would have otherwise gone to to mitigate 4 manufacturing impact. 5 So it's not there's not a precedent where 6 the impacts -- weighing the manufacturing impacts 7 didn't affect the outcome. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Bob. 9 MR. BARBOUR: This is Bob Barbour again. 10 I was just curious because none of those 11 topics were brought up during the course of any of 12 these discussions. 13 MR. ECKMAN: And there's a whole model that 14 gets built around your -- your industry. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin. 16 MR. ADIN: Maybe to respond more generally, 17 we had gotten a comment from Charlie earlier today 18 which was kind of broadly about, you know, how the 19 practical implications of a rule would how, and you 20 know, assuming we select a certain metric and a test 21 procedure and set a standard, how that would work all 22 the way to implementation of the rule.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 242 1 So that's something we can talk about next 2 time, but the other part of this is what are the 3 practical aspects of setting a standard. Like what 4 does the process, recognizing that, you know, not 5 everyone here is entirely familiar with all the 6 analysis we do, and that's something we can also -- 7 we're happy to cover next time up front so that, you 8 know, all of these questions that you're having -- 9 actually what we might do is in the interim periods, 10 you have some time to read through -- I mean, we do 11 have literature that explains in pretty excruciating 12 detail -- 13 (Laughter.) 14 MR. ADIN: -- exactly how we do this, and 15 you can see it, you know, actually carried out for 16 another product. 17 I can provide some -- 18 MR. BARBOUR: That would be helpful. 19 MR. ADIN: Yeah, just refer you to some 20 particular literature that would explain how this 21 works so you can see these things in effect. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary, but, Al, you're in the

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 243 1 queue also. 2 MR. HUBER: I'll defer to Gary. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary. 4 MR. FERNSTROM: Okay. This is Gary. 5 So, Bob, there's kind of like two hurdles. 6 The one we're at now, should we even consider this or 7 not, and if the answer to that turns out to be yes, 8 then there is the whole rest of the procedure where 9 all of these things are considered in detail, 10 including the manufacturer and industrial impact. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Al, please. 12 MR. HUBER: Will the DOE come back to this 13 group with the results of their analysis for us to 14 review and to ask questions about how you arrived at 15 it? 16 I know that we as an industry have given you 17 at least on the -- only on the Lot 11 now, we've given 18 you some what we think are cost impacts to the 19 retooling or whatever we have to redesign and 20 everything that we'd have to do. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. 22 MR. HUBER: Now we've the ones in yellow

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 244 1 which, by the way, if those come in the cost of 2 tooling those and the cost of designing those is much 3 higher than Lot 11 pump, and we've never been asked 4 about that. So we probably are going to have to go 5 back and take a look at that. 6 MR. ADIN: So the answer -- Lucas Adin, 7 Lucas Adin. 8 So actually it sounds like there's almost 9 another question imbedded within that one, but the 10 first question was will you get a chance to see the 11 results of these analyses, and the answer is yes. So 12 you'll see the results of everything that we do. I 13 mean, we'll perform essentially the full-up analysis 14 that we would do for a normal standards rule to be -- 15 you know, we'll do it more quickly than we normally 16 would, but, yeah, you'll see the results of all of 17 those before we pick a standard and put it into a term 18 sheet as a proposal for the ASRAC. I mean, our 19 selections -- 20 MR. HANDZEL: So that will still be done 21 while we're still meeting, and the intent will be -- 22 MR. ADIN: Correct. Oh, yeah, and it needs

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 245 1 to be because you're voting on the standard level on 2 the basis of the output of those analyses. 3 MR. HANDZEL: There's a whole bunch of more 4 analysis. You know, you gave us the guidelines at one 5 of the first meetings, Lucas, where you said you 6 wanted us to try to be done June-July because you said 7 you had five to six months' worth of work to do before 8 a NOPR could be issued. 9 So is that a different type of analysis? 10 MR. ADIN: Oh, well, that includes the time 11 that's required for us to -- so we put our proposal 12 into a term sheet and submit it to the ASRAC. The 13 ASRAC has to take it up and consider it. Then the 14 ASRAC has to submit it to DOE. Then it has to go 15 through our full internal process of translating that 16 into a notice. 17 So most of that is really just 18 administrative process. It's the ASRAC and -- 19 MR. BROOKMAN: And then there's DOE's, 20 right. 21 Greg. 22 MR. CASE: Well, I actually had a different

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 246 1 topic. So, Steve, if you have something on this 2 topic. 3 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Well, just real quick in 4 terms of process, again, it's also is this going to be 5 -- result in a NOPR or a recommendation for a direct 6 final rule? Because that will also change the 7 potential in terms of timing. 8 MR. ECKMAN: That depends on whether we get 9 to agreement or not. If we get to agreement, we'll 10 make a recommendation to ASRAC probably for a direct 11 final rule. If we don't it will be a NOPR and a 12 rulemaking. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: I think that -- Betsy, go 14 ahead. Yeah, I think my recollection -- correct me. 15 MS. KOHL: So -- 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Don't correct me. You go 17 first. 18 MS. KOHL: Betsy Kohl, DOE, GC. 19 So we've done a negotiated rulemaking with 20 distribution transformers, and yes, we didn't reach 21 100 percent consensus on all issues, but it was turned 22 into a proposed rule.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 247 1 We have separate authority for direct final 2 rules when we get a consensus agreement, but that's a 3 different animal. The negotiated rulemaking will turn 4 into a proposal. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: That's my recollection. 6 MR. ECKMAN: -- comment on and it goes 7 through the whole thing. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: That if we achieve a 9 consensus and if ASRAC accepts this term sheet, then 10 the Secretary is obligated, as his notice of proposed 11 rulemaking, to take the content to the extent possible 12 and translate that into his NOPR document. 13 MR. ADIN: Right. So thank you for that 14 clarification, Doug. 15 The proposed rule would reflect what was 16 proposed by this working group. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. 18 MR. ADIN: Now, the proposed rule, of 19 course, is open to public comment, and depending on 20 the comments that we receive from the public, you 21 know, many of whom obviously have nothing to do with 22 this working group, they might have other data, other

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 248 1 comments, you know, other things that we didn't 2 consider. Things in the final rule could be 3 different, but that's -- you know, that's just another 4 stage that we don't have -- 5 MR. BROOKMAN: But just to be clear because 6 Charlie made this comment to the two of us as we were 7 heading to lunch. I think that we could do a kind of 8 a -- a description of as a typical flow or pattern it 9 would be do this and then this and then this analysis 10 and then consultation and discussion, you know, and 11 kind of sort of a typical sequence that we wouldn't be 12 bound to, but would be so you would know the major 13 points where analysis was going to be discussed and 14 stuff like that. 15 Yes, Al. 16 MR. HUBER: The reason that's important to 17 us is that some of the analysis that we've seen so far 18 and some of the things that we've seen so far, we are 19 not in agreement with, and so we don't want -- I mean, 20 we were really concern that we were going to vote for, 21 you know, something to be included, and they go off 22 and do the analysis and it's over and we've got no

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 249 1 more say and we can't question anything. That's what 2 we were concerned about. 3 Now we understand it, and so I think those 4 concerns are somewhat allayed at this point. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 6 MR. ADIN: And one other possible outcome 7 that should be mentioned is even for these other pump 8 categories that we include, the possibility still 9 exists that we'll do the analysis and the standard 10 just won't be economically feasible. 11 MR. HUBER: Yeah. 12 MR. ADIN: I mean, that's possible. It 13 doesn't mean that we're starting on a course that we 14 can't turn back. 15 MR. HUBER: Turn back away from, yeah. 16 MR. ADIN: That we can't stop the train. You 17 know, it's like that could be an outcome. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Greg, do you still want in 19 the queue? 20 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 21 A little bit different topic. Going back a 22 little bit, do we need to make a recommendation to

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 250 1 ASRAC for their next meeting about going forward with 2 this second rulemaking? Do we need to get that done 3 here today, or are they going to meet before we meet 4 again? 5 MR. BROOKMAN: We're not sure. You're not 6 sure about the date, Tom? 7 MR. ECKMAN: Yeah. Jeremiah was actually 8 trying to arrange it, do a little poll to figure out 9 which date it was going to be. So I don't -- 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Either mid-March or mid11 April. 12 MR. ECKMAN: Yeah. 13 MR. CASE: So do we need to take care of 14 that just in case? 15 MR. BROOKMAN: I don't see how that would -- 16 maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how 17 that's going to bind us up, some kind of notice at 18 this point for the next meeting. 19 MR. ECKMAN: No. Tom Eckman. 20 I think I'm sure ASRAC will meet again. If 21 we decided it sometime in April-May time frame that we 22 needed a follow-on for maybe circulators, maybe

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 251 1 something else -- who knows what comes up? -- or 2 extended time just to get the -- you know, we're one 3 month away but we need another month, I'm sure taking 4 a proposal to ASRAC and say we need more time to do 5 that would be something we could do, and whether they 6 had to convene it in person or over the phone, it 7 could be done either way. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. 9 MR. ECKMAN: So it's not a logistical issue. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. Greg, keep going. 11 MR. CASE: Second new topic. Greg Case. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Can I go back to -- are you 13 going like way off topic? 14 MR. CASE: No. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Because I wanted to respond 16 to some of the analysis questions. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Wait just for a second then. 18 But before we move on, did you -- okay. So you 19 respond to the analysis question, Alison. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. I just wanted to follow 21 up on the questions about what kind of analyses we'll 22 show you and that kind of thing. So in prior

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 252 1 negotiated rulemakings almost all of the time is spent 2 on, you know, the consultants showing the analyses, 3 the assumptions, like going through in excruciating 4 detail how they're done, the results, and analyzing 5 the results to determine how to set a standard level. 6 And so we do plan to go through a similar 7 process here. The problem is just that we -- in order 8 to do those analyses, we have to basically know what 9 the scope and the metric is, and so the longer -- I'm 10 not trying to like push you guys to do anything, but 11 you know, hopefully if we decide on scope and metric 12 at the next meeting, hopefully in April we could start 13 sharing results and going through the analyses and 14 talking about them and making, you know, changes 15 together into the scenarios or the assumptions and 16 that kind of thing. 17 And then, you know, we would basically have 18 April, May and June to do those conversations and look 19 at the analyses; that's a pretty compressed scale for 20 us. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: So I would just add to what 22 Alison just said. You may recall Dan Cohen saying in

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 253 1 our very first meeting that this format lends itself 2 toward taking that analysis and having the back-and3 forth between folks like yourselves who are deeply 4 familiar with this content. So there's the real 5 opportunity for that kind of real time revision, 6 scrutiny that's going to yield a better product. 7 Now Greg or Mark, either one 8 MR. HANDZEL: I'll see what Greg comes down 9 to. 10 MR. CASE: Going back to the analysis, since 11 we are planning on providing new data to you and we 12 are planning to provide that through our NEMA BIS 13 third party, we need to know how you want that 14 analysis done. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, I wanted to talk to you 16 about that. 17 MR. CASE: So in the next couple days we 18 need to know what formula we're going to use to cover 19 that data. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. 21 Mark. 22 MR. HANDZEL: This is Mark.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 254 1 And following along that same line, I know 2 you've been crediting Al with survey, but you should 3 know that I took most of your survey and really 4 created the survey. So -- 5 MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mark. 6 MR. HANDZEL: -- it's really in a format 7 similar to yours, but obviously we've been able to get 8 more people to agree to participate because they've 9 asserted confidentiality with our third party. 10 So we want to give it to you in a format 11 that you will get the most use out of. So that's why 12 we need to talk quite a bit -- 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 MR. HANDZEL: -- and obviously we know you're 15 going to want the data as soon as possible so you have 16 time before the next meeting. We're going to be 17 crunched with some time things. So we just need to do 18 a little preparation. 19 MS. WILLIAMS: And I think we can do some 20 prioritization because to do the energy savings 21 estimates for the next meeting we might need less 22 detail than we might need for some of our other

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 255 1 analyses. So we -- you know, let's definitely have a 2 conversation this week because if we don't get -- I 3 mean, ideally we would get all the data just masked as 4 to manufacturer and brand because we do need pretty 5 complicated analyses done. So we'll just have to have 6 some chats about that. 7 MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, and this is Mark Handzel 8 again. 9 I don't know if we've got the authority to 10 do that. You know, we promised aggregated data would 11 be shared. So that's the thing we're going to have to 12 go back and forth on a little bit. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, okay. 14 MR. HANDZEL: But, you know, obviously, we 15 want to make sure that the next meeting we have data 16 that we aren't sitting here trying to figure out what 17 to talk about. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Right, yes. It would be 19 great to accomplish something next meeting. 20 MR. HANDZEL: Right. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Tom Eckman. 22 MR. ECKMAN: Sooner or later the light will

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 256 1 stay on. 2 -- have agreement on a metric and probably 3 not on scope yet, but certainly on the question of 4 metric so you could estimate what savings might be in 5 it. 6 I thought we left this morning feeling 7 pretty well with consensus on the metric and that 8 there would be some decision made largely by you guys 9 about whether there was a -- what kind of denominator 10 would be most useful because that's not our drill. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. And just to follow up 12 on this, we were having a short conversation about the 13 denominator, and I'm not sure, although it's important 14 for what we want to do and present to the public, I 15 think we can do some preliminary energy savings 16 analysis without the denominator and it won't really 17 change the results at all that we would get with a 18 denominator because it's just a scaling factor. 19 So if we get the data, what we're hoping to 20 do for next meeting is not just an energy use 21 estimate, but also look at a few different levels of 22 MEI and the equivalent PER and see what kind of energy

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 257 1 savings you could get at those various levels. So 2 that's our goal if we have time to do that analysis. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Which does not diminish Tom's 4 comment, that is, if the manufacturers collectively 5 said, "This is what we'd really like to see used," 6 then that would be very, very helpful. 7 Al. 8 MR. HUBER: I want to make something clear 9 here. I want to make sure that there's no 10 misunderstanding. The only thing that we're 11 authorized to give you is aggregated data, period. 12 We're not authorized to give you anything else. 13 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. Yeah, we just weren't 14 sure if it was going to be like the MEI data that we 15 got before, which was aggregated, but blinded. So 16 we'll have -- we can have a separate conversation. 17 MR. HUBER: What we really need you to do, I 18 think, Alison, is to put it down in writing exactly 19 what you want or you desire is, okay, and how you want 20 to see it and send it to us right away, and we'll get 21 that to NEMA BIS because we have given them -- I was 22 wrong yesterday -- we have given them a deadline of

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 258 1 March the 12th -- 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 MR. HUBER: -- to have all of the data in. 4 They take three to five days to process it. Okay? 5 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. 6 MR. HUBER: We don't have a lot of time. So 7 we want to go ahead and give that to them so they have 8 a little bit of time ahead of that to prepare, get 9 ready to parse the data the way you want it. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: Right. 11 MR. HUBER: The way you can use it. 12 MS. WILLIAMS: Actually I'm worried it will 13 take longer than three to five days to process because 14 of what we're going to ask for. So we will get 15 together and I'm just -- just straight up, just to 16 tell you like we had been planning in our analysis to 17 use the database of pumps actually, and so if we're 18 not getting that, I need to just go back to my team 19 and think about how we can request distributions of 20 those parameters. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: But also though you indicated 22 that there would be priorities here. That is, you

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 259 1 know, you could imagine that they would do certain 2 kinds of analysis first and that might be made 3 available, right? 4 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. I mean, we're going to 5 have to go back and think about -- we almost don't 6 need to have this conversation now. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 8 MS. WILLIAMS: Because we need to think 9 about things. You know, we need shipments by 10 efficiency. We need performance data distributions. 11 We need MSPs by shipment. So there's just a lot of 12 things that -- 13 MR. HUBER: Shipments by efficiency? 14 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. So these are a lot of 15 details. 16 MR. HUBER: That's not going to happen, 17 Alison. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: It's in the data. So we 19 should have a conversation because if some of these 20 things can't happen, then this is not useful to us. So 21

-- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: It seems like I liked Al's

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 260 1 suggestion that you write down -- 2 MS. WILLIAMS: Yep. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: -- precisely what you would 4 like to obtain, and then you start that conversation 5 back and forth and quickly. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, and we'll try to write 7 down like why we need it so it makes a little more 8 sense that me just saying -- 9 MR. BROOKMAN: That would be great. 10 MS. WILLIAMS: -- shipments by efficiency. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. So I thought that was 12 productive, that last round there. 13 Now, it's two o'clock. I think we've 14 covered a great deal of what we intended to cover 15 today. Are there other things on your list? Because 16 I have an issue or two. 17 MR. ADIN: I don't know that I have anything 18 else specific. I mean maybe I should just ask 19 generally for the group to let me know -- well, maybe 20 we need to -- 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, they're doing a brief - 22

-

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 261 1 MR. CASE: Sorry. 2 MR. ADIN: Oh, that's all right. That's 3 okay. I mean, I've heard throughout the meeting today 4 and yesterday various things that might be helpful for 5 next time for DOE to do, and I don't know if I 6 captured them all. 7 I mean, we have some things that we're going 8 to look at, maybe some potential refinements to the 9 basic energy use numbers for circulators, and we're 10 going to try and think a little more about the 11 definition. This is the clean water categorization 12 for pumps. 13 MR. CASE: If I could just comment, so, 14 Lucas, that's another one that is kind of important 15 for us because, based on what you kind of decide on 16 that is going to direct what we need to start to 17 communicate to our membership. 18 So you know, we'd like to do that before the 19 next meeting so we're prepared to say it's okay or 20 it's not okay. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. So we were clear, in 22 the summary statement that everybody intends, right,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 262 1 to carry forward the concept of clean water. 2 MR. HANDZEL: Right, right. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: So I think that you're on 4 solid ground with that. 5 MR. HANDZEL: Right. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: And then the question is how 7 DOE and General Counsel and the like are going to 8 translate that. So I need the enforcement business 9 will be practical and will be workable, right? 10 MR. ADIN: To clarify, I mean, when I say 11 we're going to do it before the next meeting, we're 12 going to do it as soon as possible before the next 13 meeting and provide some feedback to the group so that 14 you all have time to think about it. 15 For this one in particular, I think what 16 probably would be most beneficial is for us to think 17 about some options. It's not that we're just going to 18 pick one and say this is what we think it should be. 19 It will be, you know, here's some different ways that 20 we can do this, and I mean, to the extent we have one 21 in particular that we think would work best based upon 22 the considerations that we have, we'll point it out,

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 263 1 but you know, it obviously depends in large part on 2 the input from your side. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, and then so I'll just 4 continue with my list here. So following Tom Eckman's 5 last statement, I did think we made significant 6 progress on the metric today. I really do, and so, 7 Alison, I believe you said that next time around you 8 can -- for our next meeting that -- that -- or maybe 9 it was Sarah that said this -- that you can do another 10 layer deeper, right? 11 MS. WIDDER: Un-huh. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Or do maybe a couple of 13 examples or -- 14 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: -- application sort of a 16 thing so that it's clearer how that gets all applied. 17 I think we don't need a proposal to ASRAC. 18 Go ahead, Lucas. 19 MR. ADIN: There is one other broader topic 20 that we really haven't addressed directly over the 21 last couple of days, but that's the test procedure, 22 and we've been talking about metric which obviously

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 264 1 involves the test procedure as far as how you're 2 actually going to get some of these numbers. 3 But as I've alluded to previously, DOE will 4 prior to the establishment of a standard have to 5 establish a test procedure for these products. 6 So we might do a little bit more discussion 7 about that at the next meetings, with the 8 understanding that -- go ahead, Greg. 9 MR. CASE: Greg Case, HI. 10 We have the chairman of that committee 11 prepared to speak at the next meeting on our 40.6 12 standard. So he needed a little more time to finish 13 it up, but he plans on it. I don't know if it's via 14 the Web or personally, but he will be speaking to that 15 or our efforts on that. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Is 40.6 -- has it now been 17 validated? Is it on its way or -- 18 MR. CASE: It has been validated. They 19 needed to clean up comments from members, and I 20 believe they have completed that or are close to 21 completing that. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 265 1 MR. ADIN: Great. That's good news, and we 2 really will appreciate that, that kind of input. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: So the test procedure stuff 4 that you might take up next time would be to provide 5 kind of a general format framework kind of? 6 MR. ADIN: I think it's more -- well, you 7 know, we might have to have more involved discussion 8 depending on the questions that we get, but I think at 9 the very least I wanted to provide a sense to the 10 group as to the process, so, you know, to set 11 expectations as far as how this is actually going to 12 work. 13 You know, whenever HI finishes 40.6, you 14 know, we can take that into consideration and roll 15 that into a -- so at some point DOE will have to 16 publish a NOPR for a test procedure, and so, you know, 17 we'll have to consider 40.6 for part of that, and then 18 these other elements of the metric that we're 19 considering. So that's the motor part of it, the 20 drive. All those things will have to be part of the 21 test procedure as far as how you come up with a number 22 for a given -- for a given pump.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 266 1 And so that'll have to be translated into a 2 notice, and I just wanted to make sure everyone 3 understand what actually has to -- 4 MR. BROOKMAN: And on to it for the scope 5 that you establish for this negotiation, the 6 Department of Energy anticipates that the test 7 procedure would be concluded for the scope of this 8 negotiation during the term of this negotiation 9 essentially, right? 10 MR. ADIN: Right. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. Mark. 12 MR. HANDZEL: I just want to, I guess, just 13 clarify. So when we come in next time to do that 14 presentation on the test procedure, what specifically 15 are you looking for? Because we could spend hours 16 going through that specification, and I don't think 17 that would be everyone's best use of time. 18 So, you know, what is it that we want to 19 focus on? Just an introduction for this group as to 20 what our test procedure is for testing a pump, the 21 bare pump, which is really what that procedure focuses 22 on?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 267 1 MR. ADIN: Well, I mean, I think that was 2 generally what we had in mind. 3 MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 4 MR. ADIN: I tend to agree that it wouldn't 5 be necessarily beneficial to get into all of the 6 nitty-gritty details of, you know, what's different in 7 this one from 14.6 or all of these other little -- you 8 know, that's probably not germane to this discussion, 9 and you know, maybe there are other members of the 10 group that have specific things they'd like to hear 11 about, but that's sort of generally what I have in 12 mind. So we have a sense of what's actually involved 13 in testing a pump. 14 MR. HUBER: You know, I think it would be 15 beneficial for the rest of these that the folks here 16 to understand that we've been working with Navigant on 17 this new procedure -- I mean Pacific Northwest. So 18 we've tried to get it to where it would be one that 19 you could use for regulations. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 21 MR. HUBER: So hopefully a lot of your job 22 will be completed, we hope.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 268 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 2 MR. HUBER: We hope. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Other issues that 4 individuals want to raise? I've got a few others on 5 my list, just kind of "to do" sorts of things. 6 Chuck and others requested that these slides 7 that we used that have been edited real time as we've 8 been going along, aside from a sort of quick review to 9 check for grammatical stuff and other kind of editing 10 things, but those get sent out soon in the next few 11 days? 12 I'm looking at Sarah and Alison. 13 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: That's okay with DOE? Yes. I 15 just wanted to make sure. 16 And then -- 17 MR. BARBOUR: Doug. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 19 MR. BARBOUR: Is Tom going to cast a vote on 20 all of the issues that we voted on yesterday? 21 MR. BROOKMAN: I raised that issue with 22 Tom, and sine he wasn't here for the discussion and

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 269 1 since had hadn't offered a proxy to anybody aside from 2 that first vote on the definition, and of course, Meg 3 did register a yes vote on the definition so we noted 4 that. I registered him as being an abstention. If he 5 wants to go -- we still had plenty of votes to pass 6 all of those and obtain a consensus. 7 If he wishes to either consult with his 8 colleagues or read the transcript or somehow get 9 familiar with what was done there and wishes to 10 register a yes vote or a no vote, we would certainly 11 be open and welcome to hear that. 12 I see Louis wants to go first. 13 MR. STARR: You know, technically speaking, 14 if he wasn't here he doesn't vote. He's not really an 15 abstention. You can't abstain if you're not there. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Well, that's a good point, 17 yeah. But I figured that -- 18 (Laughter.) 19 MR. BROOKMAN: I figure though he might -- 20 it was kind of a place holder. 21 MR. STARR: I just meant to think of how it 22 looks to the committee.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 270 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 2 MR. STARR: If it looks like someone 3 abstained for some reason but in reality they just 4 weren't here. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Good point. So I don't know, 6 Tom, whether you wish to do anything about that or 7 whether you're content with -- 8 MR. ECKMAN: Well, he did make the proxy on 9 the first vote. So that's fine, and I think the 10 parameters as they pertain to the Lot 11 group were 11 perfectly fine with me. So I'm supportive of that as 12 well. I don't think we've had -- and I told Meg that 13 as well. So I'm good with them. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 15 MS. WILLIAMS: So should we change the 16 abstention notation to something else? 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, we should. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: Like just absent or -- 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Well, just the number of yes 20 votes. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 22 MR. ADIN: Unless someone else had something

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 271 1 at the moment, there is on a different topic an 2 administrative item that came up. I did get a 3 question about whether non-working group members could 4 get access to the SharePoint site, and what I've heard 5 from our side, our site managers, is that previous 6 working groups have voted on whether to give non7 working group members access to the SharePoint, and 8 they did it for basically just read only access, like 9 they wouldn't change anything or add documents, but 10 they could see what's on there and access it and all 11 that. 12 So I don't really have a personal preference 13 as to whether we do it that way, but it seems 14 reasonable to -- 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Maybe you and I just had this 16 conversation, but it seems like we talked about this 17 as a ground rule for discussion, but maybe we didn't. 18 Gary, you want to start on this? 19 MR. FERNSTROM: Well, this is Gary for the 20 California IOUs. 21 I think it would be very helpful if the 22 consultant team that supports me could have at least

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 272 1 read only access, and the work that we do that we're 2 going to be sharing with Alison and the rest of you 3 will need to be posted, and it would be so much easier 4 for me if they could just post it to the Website 5 instead of having to ask me to do it. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Although I understand 7 through -- somebody told me that it's not so easy 8 getting in and out of SharePoint, but maybe that's 9 another matter. 10 So other thoughts on this? I guess the 11 proposal on the table is that the SharePoint Web 12 access be provided to members and on a read only basis 13 to non-members. Bob. 14 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour. 15 Does that include, you know, the alternate 16 members, too? Would they be treated as a member or 17 would they be treated as a non-member? 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Since the ground rules -- 19 this is my take on it. Since the ground rules specify 20 that an alternate can serve in the member's absence 21 and vote -- 22 MR. BARBOUR: Right.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 273 1 MR. BROOKMAN: -- in the member's absence, 2 then I think that the alternate should have the same 3 access. So that's a good clarification. 4 Steve Rosenstock. 5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI. 6 I would support giving the access for read 7 only documents as you've said because these are open 8 meetings to the public, and you know, we are producing 9 documents. So you know, if they're on the phone right 10 now today, they're kind of limited if they aren't able 11 to review it. If they work with or work for a working 12 group member, then I think they should have access. 13 It's just being more open and transparent. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. I think it's a good way 15 to go. I'm thinking it's a good way to go. So I'm 16 casting my eyes around the room. We're going to do it 17 that way, yes? 18 No one objects. Okay. 19 MR. ADIN: All right. Good. So I'll notify 20 Jeremiah that we agree to provide read only access to 21 non-members and for anybody who has someone in their 22 team or a member that wants to access, just email

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 274 1 Jeremiah and he'll get them access. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: And also I would say that it 3 has been very helpful, Lucas, for you to send emails 4 with attachments and notifications, whether it's you 5 or Jeremiah or whomever. So that's very helpful, and 6 that's the reason I haven't been on SharePoint yet. 7 All of the information, most all of it has been coming 8 via other sources. 9 And so for that to continue, that would be 10 nice. 11 Bob. 12 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour again. 13 Would it be possible also for us to get the 14 slides a couple days in advance if they're going to be 15 going up on the screen? Like for myself here, it's 16 almost impossible to read some of the slides. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 18 MR. BARBOUR: So it would be nice if I had 19 the printed out slide to be able to actually follow 20 some of -- 21 MR. BROOKMAN: This last time, they did go 22 out a couple of days in advance.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 275 1 MR. ADIN: Well, not all of them did. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 3 MR. ADIN: The ones that we started with 4 yesterday, the scope ones did. The other ones we had 5 actually provided, well, a little while ago, with the 6 exception of two slides in that group. We had 7 provided those. 8 MR. BARBOUR: What about the ones that 9 Alison went through today? 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Oh, no. 11 MS. WILLIAMS: These, these metrics slides 12 with the -- yeah, Lucas is saying with the exception 13 of Slides 5 and 6 -- went out to the working group 14 between meetings, like pretty soon after the last 15 meeting, I think. Right? You guys saw that one, 16 yeah. 17 MR. ADIN: Right, but we did -- we did make 18 some changes. I mean, this is -- 19 MR. BARBOUR: It would just be helpful. 20 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 21 MR. ADIN: Oh, sure, absolutely. To the 22 extent we can do that, we will, yes.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 276 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay? So I'm about to 2 provide a brief summary and then we're going to head 3 towards closure. Yes. 4 MR. ECKMAN: Doug, next meeting dates to 5 remind us again, 26 and 27th, correct? 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 7 And it March 26th and 27th, and to confirm 8 the decision we made last time, day one will start at 9 9:00 a.m. We'll have to confirm the room. Right now 10 I think we're in here. 11 MR. ADIN: So I had heard some comments in 12 favor of the room we had yesterday. I don't know how 13 everyone else in here feels about that. I never had a 14 meeting in there before, but in some respects -- 15 MR. BARBOUR: It was fine. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Do you like it better than 17 this room? 18 (Simultaneous conversation.) 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 20 MR. FERNSTROM: So this is Gary. 21 I think it depends upon where you were 22 sitting.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 277 1 (Laughter.) 2 MR. FERNSTROM: You know, some of the energy 3 efficiency crew were at the end of the table. It was 4 hard to hear and be heard and see, and this is a much 5 closer. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: I agree with that. I was 7 sitting at one end and when Joanna and others were 8 having a conversation directly across the table to 9 another person or head in the other direction, I was 10 really straining to hear. 11 Of course, I'm a little -- half diminished 12 anyway, but -- so in that respect this room is better, 13 but fortunately, when we are meeting we have multiple 14 options, and so I'd like to stick with this room, and 15 I think it's easier to do this setup on the Web access 16 and all that other stuff as well. 17 Jeremiah, I don't think you were in the 18 room. We'll talk with you about SharePoint access. 19 JEREMIAH: Yep, I heard. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Oh, you did. Okay. Great. 21 So other comments along those lines? Lucas? 22 MR. ADIN: No.

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 278 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. So I just want to 2 summarize that in the span of the last two days we've 3 really made a lot of progress, and following on from 4 the progress we've made in the previous two meetings. 5 Related to scope, we did succeed in talking 6 about federal preemption. We talked about the 7 feasibility and timeline if DOE do not follow up on 8 rulemaking, and we further clarified that today. 9 We didn't get all the way through defining 10 completely the scope of the negotiation in the pump 11 types, but we did clearly define the scope for 12 negotiation and coverage. Particularly, we had 13 considerable discussion on clean water definition, and 14 a decision making tree that's still being considered, 15 still to be decided; closed on exclusions and 16 parameters, and good discussion on those; and defined 17 covered product. We voted that in as well; consensus 18 on those items. 19 We had a lot of clarification, a lot of 20 discussion on the metric today. I thought we made 21 good progress on that as well. 22 We've received requests for additional

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 279 1 analysis and data and looking ahead. We're looking 2 forward to HI and Al and Mark's efforts at gathering 3 that data and sending it forward for the next meeting. 4 And I think that generally, Alison and 5 others described kind of a general plan for the 6 analysis for the items in green and the items in 7 yellow, with the possible exception of circulators. 8 So I think that's pretty much where we are 9 at this moment, and I welcome any additional thoughts 10 on what I've missed. 11 (No response.) 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Then for my part, I 13 think we're pretty much done, and before we go, 14 anybody that wishes to make closing comments, I 15 particularly appreciate the tenor of the conversation 16 in these last two days. I very much appreciate 17 everybody being so forthright, straightforward, 18 pleasant. 19 Really, we're forming as a group here and 20 being very, very productive, I think. So I look 21 forward to seeing that continue. 22 Closing remarks from anybody in the room?

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 280 1 (No response.) 2 MR. BROOKMAN: No closing remarks? Then 3 thanks to all, and we'll see on March 26th a 9:00 4 a.m., I think in here until we get bumped by the 5 Secretary. 6 (Whereupon, at 1:22 p.m., the working 7 group meeting was concluded.) 8 * * * * * 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION 2 3 I, MARY JO MITCHELL, hereby certify that I am 4 not the Court Reporter who reported the proceeding 5 and that I have typed the transcript of the 6 proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and 7 recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript 8 is a true, correct and complete transcription of the 9 proceedings. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 281

### Capital Reporting Company Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014

1 CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER 2 3 I, LINDA D. METCALF, the Court Reporter before 4 whom the foregoing proceeding was taken, do hereby 5 certify that the proceeding was recorded by me; that 6 the proceeding was thereafter reduced to typewriting 7 under my direction; that said transcript is a true and 8 accurate record of the proceeding; that I am neither 9 related to nor employed by any of the parties to this 10 proceeding; and, further, that I have no financial 11 interest in this proceeding. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Digital Cou t Reporter

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 282

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 1

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 $ $10 202:9 204:10,13 218:3 $112 221:15 $112.50 202:7 $113 202:11 $12 225:8 $20 223:17 225:20 227:12 $25 227:16 $35 225:7 0 02 142:3 1 1.0 152:19 1.1 21:12 1/16 226:9 227:1 1/25 219:17 221:14 226:9 227:1 1/25th 202:6 204:15,20 205:6 220:2 1:00 200:22 1:22 280:6 1:30 111:8,17 1:30-ish 111:10 10 122:10 10:15 110:18,20 100 40:20 43:12 45:16 63:12 73:6,11 97:22 98:15 106:6 136:11 138:12 144:16 145:3 150:7 158:21 159:13,19 161:18,20,22 162:3,13 166:2,3,10 167:13,22 205:7 246:21 102 146:22 105 147:1 11 155:1 202:8 211:1 234:19,22 235:2 238:5,6 243:17 244:3 270:10 11:55 200:20 110 45:16 46:21 47:2,6 136:11 145:1,9,11 158:21 159:21 160:3,10 161:22 166:3 12 44:18 138:10 213:16,17,21 222:5 12:30 111:19,20 120 77:8 1210 85:12 149:8 174:6 183:4 12th 258:1 12-year 202:11,19 13.5 203:6 14.6 77:17 267:7 14th 8:7 15 237:10 155 218:1 16 234:15 19th 8:6 11:2 2 2,100 217:6 2,150 203:7 213:14

2,160 213:14,20 20 175:9,17 177:6 204:20 200 132:20 133:1 2011 107:3 2014 1:11 21 10:7 24 214:17 24-hour215:8 25 36:4,17 40:10,14,20 41:3 42:7,9 43:6,10 44:17 45:2 46:19 117:3 136:10,14 138:8,9 210:16 26 276:5 26th 276:7 280:3 26th-27th 10:6 27th 276:5,7 29 122:14 29.23 119:3 121:13 122:1 29.86 142:5 29.87 142:4 29.89 142:4 3 3 7:10 3.6 150:3 30 228:8 30-year 209:16 31 204:19,21 3208 133:3 33.6 122:11 37 44:19 45:6 138:9,10 204:10 4 4,000 217:12 40 116:21 40.6 77:17 264:11,16 265:13,17 42 44:18 46 84:7,13 183:22 48 44:19 5 5 1:11 84:7,13 275:13 50 36:16 40:20 43:12 44:19 45:6,15,16 73:12 97:22 117:7,12 136:11 138:9 144:16 158:22 159:3 160:20 161:22 162:14 176:5 215:12 500 133:2 5th 4:9 6 6 184:3 275:13 60 116:21 62 138:10 6315 94:4 7 7 50:8 70 37:9,10 45:16 48:8,11 108:12 119:3

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 2

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 71 48:11 75 36:6 40:20 43:12 45:6,15 48:14 83:20 117:6,11 136:11 138:10 144:16 158:20 160:10,20 161:22 162:13,14 166:3 778 204:20 785 117:11 79 117:7 8 8:00 1:12 8:09 4:2 80 145:18 175:17 84.04 119:1 85 205:7 9 9:00 276:9 280:3 90 205:7 90,000 219:21 90.1 194:19,20 196:5 90.1-2013 195:22 90s 131:21 93 77:12,14 78:13 95 78:16,17 117:5,11 118:12 A a.m1:12 4:2 200:20 276:9 280:4 ability105:22 140:7 231:3 235:8 237:14 able 8:21 9:3,6,14 14:13 17:16 44:7 53:18 54:2,13 55:13 73:4 80:7 82:4 92:8,9 96:8,18 97:5 104:6,9 107:20 140:3 149:2 151:21 152:12 153:2 169:17 174:7 177:22 197:13 204:4 207:18 208:18 237:9 254:7 273:10 274:19 absence170:14 198:6,14 272:20 273:1 absent270:18 absolutely198:21 275:21 abstain 269:15 abstained 270:3 abstention 269:4,15 270:16 AC 202:4 203:14 215:14 accept 231:11 accepts 247:9 access 271:4,7,8,10 272:1,12 273:3,6,12,20,22 274:1 277:15,18 accessible201:7 accomplish 32:4 91:22 92:22 93:6 123:22 255:19 accomplished

152:2 accomplishes 38:16 72:17 according181:3,4 account14:12 55:3 60:5 67:22 72:10 79:7,12,21 84:22 85:10 129:21 139:18,19 140:15 142:19,21 143:6 151:8 155:18 157:16 169:17 170:21 171:1 172:17,20 194:3 196:22 203:11,16 239:11 accounted149:18 accounting60:9 62:21 141:19 142:8 157:18 accuracy 80:6 101:16 105:2 141:14 accurate79:21 101:3,19 167:9 209:4 210:1 282:8 accurately

105:4 achieve100:14 247:8 across 23:9 48:6 52:9 59:9 63:1 80:1 88:13 119:19 193:19 239:7 277:8 action 10:3 activity 12:3 actual16:10 19:16 51:5,10 54:1 89:14 100:6 131:12 139:18 140:14 141:7 145:10 167:8 169:18 201:15 202:15 205:5 233:1 actually8:5 9:3,8 24:15 31:10 33:3 35:13 38:19 40:16 43:8 45:9,17 57:11 66:20 69:10 80:14 92:12 94:14 96:1,7 99:14,15 100:5 103:13 104:4 105:9,13,14 106:12,17 107:1 110:18 119:4 127:9 138:12 150:6 152:11 153:20 154:9 162:15 165:17 173:9 175:3 185:8 204:14 213:18 215:3,6 233:7 239:18 242:9,15 244:8 245:22 250:7 258:12,17 264:2 265:11 266:3 267:12 274:19 275:5 ad 190:18 199:14 add 40:4 46:21 47:2 50:10 77:21 81:22 87:10 97:8 109:18 120:16 141:13

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 3

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 195:11,18,20 228:22 252:21 271:9 added 17:3 45:7 adding 23:7 158:22 163:7 189:11 addition 7:7 40:17 95:1 126:14 additional 7:12,21 12:20 33:8 101:17 107:9 143:19 170:22 200:10 203:1 206:2,3,5,6,10,1 4,16 234:1,2 278:22 279:9 additions 128:12 address 11:19 91:20 110:8 129:11 130:16 181:15 186:13 196:17 208:19,20 addressed 34:20 130:6 263:20 addresses 106:14,15 123:14 addressing 18:17 64:6 138:22 adds 189:20,22 adequate 140:6 adequately203:11 Adin 2:17 5:18 8:19 14:4 17:4 18:12,22 24:7,8 27:21 28:7 29:10,16,19 31:9,17 32:20 49:9,11 50:18,22 51:3,22 52:3 55:9 90:20,22 91:1 94:8 95:10,17 102:20 103:16 104:17 114:1,5,7,13 123:13 125:1,4,6 126:2 127:4 134:14,15 140:17 166:13,14 186:11,13,21 187:16 190:14,15 192:15,19 193:4 198:19,20 207:20 230:4 234:6 236:18,20 237:16 241:15,16 242:14,19 244:6,7,22 245:10 247:13,18 249:6,12,16 260:17 261:2 262:10 263:19 265:1,6 266:10 267:1,4 270:22 273:19 275:1,3,17,21 276:11 277:22 adjunct237:21 adjustable 185:9 186:4,9 adjusted 84:1 170:21 adjusting 181:6 ADMIN51:17 administrative 19:12 245:18 271:2

adopted 24:13 adoption 186:9 191:17 advance 7:21 164:7,8 274:14,22 advantage 53:18,22 54:3 55:14 89:2 151:19 153:2 advantages 87:21 109:2 154:4 advocates 199:22 affect141:20 147:18 154:11 199:21 241:7 affected 240:8 affects 186:21 affinity 83:14 84:6 affirmatively 120:16 AFUE 189:19 against73:5 179:17 agenda234:1 agent69:11 aggregated 255:10 257:11,15 agnostic227:8 ago 162:21 177:6 199:8 224:16,17 237:11 275:5 agreed26:22 31:10 40:10 agreeing221:20 agreement17:17 23:19 31:14 32:5 34:4 52:4 158:9 172:3 246:9 247:2 248:19 256:2 agricultural 131:6,10 agriculture139:1 ahead 8:18 15:15 32:19 40:11 45:19 47:18 49:8 53:16 101:21 125:2 164:5 181:16 200:12 206:7,20 234:5 239:14 246:14 258:7,8 263:18 264:8 279:1 AHRI 6:7 83:2 85:12 105:2 106:22 149:7 174:6 183:4 AHRI-1210 83:3 air52:21 55:20 226:18,19 227:8 akin 8:12 Al4:21 10:7 12:21 15:6,12 18:20 19:1,2,21 20:3,4 23:18 24:10 25:17 29:3,5 42:2 43:14 46:13,17 47:19 73:21 74:2 93:15 96:5 100:16,18 101:15 102:6 128:11 136:5 156:12 159:18,20 165:10 171:16 173:15 175:9 201:13 205:22

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 4

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 206:7,8 220:12,13 221:2 235:22 236:6,18 238:15 242:22 243:11 248:15 254:2 257:7 279:2 ALBERT 2:8 Alex3:3 6:5 algorithms 179:11 aligned 74:8 Alison 6:2 21:9 22:2,4 23:20 24:10 29:18,19 86:11,16 104:18 112:18 113:6,22 120:19 129:8 133:14 163:6 169:16 172:21 201:9,17,22 205:17,19 210:12 212:15 222:8 230:16 239:1 251:19 252:22 257:18 259:17 263:7 268:12 272:2 275:9 279:4 Alison's 23:17 25:1 27:17 30:16 105:21 allayed 249:4 allegation 53:5,8 Allison 2:19 237:5 allocation 235:19 allow 16:12 68:12 104:14 106:1,9 113:2,3 183:9 193:9 allowances 42:10 allowing 180:18 allows 53:22 106:16 alluded 264:3 alone 154:20 already26:16 33:3 89:3,4 90:10 155:1,4 193:18 210:18 212:8 236:5 alright24:21 Al's 16:4 17:1 106:14 259:22 alternate 272:15,20 273:2 alternative18:8 138:4 alternatively 111:19 altogether

159:9 am26:21 52:13 91:3 221:19 281:3 282:8 amend 170:19 American 5:3 among12:15 79:17 amount 141:6 147:17 229:16 amperage 182:7,10 analogous 145:2 analogy145:10 analyses 169:18 209:13 211:15 212:8 244:11 245:2 251:21 252:2,8,13,19 255:1,5

analysis 68:16 72:18 112:13 124:3 146:22 163:17,21,22 167:2 168:21 169:4 170:9 172:20 173:5,8 198:13 201:12 202:14 203:21 210:2,10,20 211:12,20,21 212:5,16,19 213:14 216:20,22 217:21 221:2 228:5 230:15 234:10 236:14 237:5,13,14 240:1,2,3,6 241:1 242:6 243:13 244:13 245:4,9 248:9,13,17,22 249:9 251:16,19 253:2,10,14 256:16 257:2 258:16 259:2 279:1,6 analytical83:16 84:8 101:2,10,18 211:5 212:3 analytically60:13 63:8 137:14 212:11 analyze 207:11 222:16 231:3 analyzed 207:14 231:4 analyzing 252:4 and/or42:5 47:6 animal212:11 247:3

annual 89:9 90:14,18 93:20,21 94:22 161:19 162:6 202:10 213:12 228:7 answer34:10 104:22 158:5 159:6 166:1 181:8,18 222:13 223:7 237:9 243:7 244:6,11 answering 211:22 answers 222:12 anticipate205:21 206:5 anticipates 266:6 anybody56:18 128:22 172:3 269:1 273:21 279:14,22 anymore171:10 anyone 9:2 anything 7:12 8:10,12 13:18 35:8 163:16 164:13 203:17 227:9 249:1 252:10 257:12 260:17 270:6 271:9 anyway19:9 34:22 92:13 102:18 104:2,3 137:8 201:17 209:20 277:12 anyways 83:10 143:17 anywhere 146:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 5

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 222:5 apart196:2 apex45:17 apparently111:4 appeal11:18 appears 220:15 223:12 appliance 5:12 52:13 applicability 24:16 applicable 195:4 application 27:3,10,14 31:21 46:1 49:5 59:20 97:11 134:3 138:21 153:20 155:13 156:4 165:14 167:16 172:17 178:21 192:3 194:5 196:14 217:9 219:16 222:4,6 226:13 263:15 applications 22:1 27:8 74:21 75:2,19 107:17 150:8 154:21 155:12,22 161:7,8 173:15,18 186:4 192:5 194:22 195:1,14,15,16 218:21 226:17 applied 34:22 35:1 43:19 76:18 77:19 79:15 82:19 128:19 129:2 159:10 160:21 163:12 183:19 263:16

apply84:19 128:15 137:22 173:5 183:14,15 applying 39:15 84:3 85:12 173:2 appre 87:18 appreciate87:13 133:6 265:2 279:15,16 approach 15:3 38:16 58:18 59:10 61:18 62:12,13 79:18 80:9 83:7,16 84:8 101:2,18 104:1 117:2 139:17 149:15 172:8 185:10 187:15 189:2 approached 111:7 approaches 61:19 approaching 156:21 appropriate41:4 55:14 56:10,11 84:14 102:22 appropriately 117:14 approve 177:12 approximately 54:6 202:9 April8:4,5,7 10:20 250:11 252:12,18 April-May

250:21 arbitrary 163:11 architecture 34:5 areas 50:16

aren't17:1 31:3 120:11 159:15 173:12 180:16 184:6 255:16 273:10 arguing 163:15 177:10,11,13 argument92:7 177:14 arrange250:8 arrived243:14 articulate93:5 94:8 ASHRAE 46:7 71:22 194:19,20 195:8,9 aside 85:22 206:21 268:8 269:1 aspect229:19 aspects 16:17 69:15 137:8 230:14 242:3 ASRAC 8:3,10,17 9:7,16 10:19 11:11 12:4 208:14 244:18 245:12,13,14,18 246:10 247:9 250:1,20 251:4 263:17 assembly171:10 asserted254:9 associated104:10 187:7,11 197:7 228:15 assume44:21 79:13 98:10 125:19 126:7 141:15 142:1

146:12 173:4 178:11 assumed104:8 140:20 141:3 193:11 assuming64:13 91:2 141:20 209:14 210:3 241:20 assumption 127:10 129:15 133:17 167:5 assumptions 193:5 211:3 212:18 237:1 252:3,15 attached25:14 154:22 attachments 274:4 authority94:11 247:1 255:9 authorized 257:11,12 automation 180:10 automotive 214:5 availability 194:4,13 available 10:9 83:4 107:2 138:20 143:13,14 144:17 150:5 153:17 154:12,16 164:7 183:5 205:21 215:22 217:11 259:3 average41:17 61:21 62:3 117:7

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 6

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 204:14 205:7 207:9 avoid 101:20 awake 53:13 aware 55:10 Awareness 5:13 away16:5 80:16 176:6 249:15 251:3 257:20 axes 180:16 axial146:3 axis 180:16,17 B back-and 253:2 back-and-forth 57:9 backing 150:18,19back-of-theenvelope 240:4 backup 104:3 bad 155:3 badges 110:21 200:18 balance 141:9 178:2 ballgame51:19 178:6,7 Barbour2:9 4:22 219:17 221:12 238:16,17 239:15 241:9 242:18 268:17,19 272:14,22 274:12,18 275:8,19 276:15 bare29:7 34:17,20 35:11,22 36:11 42:5 43:14,19 44:3,8 47:6 48:12 54:11,13 58:5,7,8 61:7 64:21,22 65:1,22 76:12,13 77:4,22 78:7,9,15 82:6,7 84:10 87:2 98:2,14 108:9,13,14 110:12 129:18,20 154:20 171:10 185:20 186:1 187:3 188:7 266:21 base 167:4,9 171:21 based 10:7 31:11 49:15 52:16 56:3,5 57:4 65:2 77:8,19 84:1 90:19 101:10 106:7 114:9 121:18 126:10,11 127:8,11 138:18 140:19 141:17 181:1,12 187:21 191:3 193:19 213:15 221:2 236:22 239:3,7 261:15 262:21 baseline 60:6,11 61:11,16 104:8,16 127:10 193:11 basic 48:22 49:4 51:21 212:18 216:22 237:2 261:9 basically18:18 24:6 26:9 28:21 36:3 46:8 61:21 72:1 88:22 116:9,12,17 117:16,18 119:11 123:11 126:12 128:2 129:18 152:12 198:6,14 206:2 228:12,14 236:20 239:11 252:8,17 271:8 basics 22:22 basis 34:15 126:13 192:4 226:15 230:6 245:2 272:12 bat215:14 bear30:14 89:16 167:1 bearing234:12 bearings 121:21 become 224:4 225:13 becomes 58:15 124:8 bed 18:4,9 begin 4:3 112:18 199:18 235:11 behave 144:11 believe 8:3 64:5,7 75:20 93:22 128:11 165:19 203:22 221:7 228:13 263:7 264:20 Beloit4:18 beneficial8:16 37:5 72:20 106:18 189:7,12 262:16 267:5,15

benefit53:20 59:7 61:1 66:8 67:4 83:15,16 84:8,18 97:1 106:10 107:9,10,19 157:3 173:20 196:22 197:6 199:4 benefits 38:20 44:8 66:19 223:15,21 BEP 36:6 40:21 43:7 45:17,21 48:5,8 49:1 50:13 52:5,6 60:8 62:16 63:4 68:5,6,19 70:1 77:9 83:19 86:5,6 116:7,13,18 117:5,9 118:18 145:2,11 154:15 159:22 160:3 162:3 166:5 168:1 180:20,21 181:1 BEPs 128:5 Berkeley6:3 besides 143:8 best14:11 15:15 23:1 47:8 50:3 96:10 155:13 220:9 262:21 266:17 Betsy2:18 5:17 94:3 246:13,18 better 14:17 15:10 20:1 25:3 38:4,6,15,21 39:1 43:1 57:6 58:2,16 61:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 7

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 70:19 75:7,9,10,12,20 78:19 84:15 85:4 109:4,8,9 122:7 131:20 138:11 148:2 152:14,20 153:10,12 156:16,22 157:3 171:2 193:12 208:14 218:14,16,17 225:9 253:6 276:16 277:12 beyond 47:8 171:22 200:12 bi9:17 biasing 169:20 bigger70:14 86:19 180:13 222:8 235:15 biggest166:15 bin 138:5,6 bind 250:17 BIS 253:12 257:21 bit24:9 31:16 33:10 36:20 40:12,14 49:11 58:11 63:9,11 79:20 80:6 82:11 86:19 92:19,21 94:9 135:15 138:15 187:17 192:6,17 202:17 203:20 212:10 217:21 218:2 219:12 230:2 234:9 237:6,22 249:21,22 254:12 255:12 258:8 264:6 blinded 257:15 block 35:18 blood 23:6 blowers 107:19 board 119:20 177:12 Bob 4:22 221:11,12,18 238:16,17 239:14,15 241:8,9 243:5 272:13,14 274:11,12 Boesenberg3:3 6:5 boils 222:17 book 109:4,9,14 Boteler3:2 6:4 101:22 102:3,11,15 103:9 139:6,7,13 143:21,22 144:14 Boteler's 104:22 bottom37:8 68:3 72:14 86:22 135:16 136:7 bounce 93:11 bound 30:9 248:12 boundary190:4 box171:6 brake 178:21 brand 255:4 break 30:17 100:11 109:22 110:16,17 112:12,16 201:9 brief 6:20 8:9 32:21 110:22 260:21 276:2

briefly115:6 bright4:6 bring 32:13 43:6 50:13 162:21 163:7,16 177:19 bringing 164:4 203:6 broad 23:21 24:3,4,14 broader50:5 166:22 187:10 263:19 broadly130:8 241:18 BROOKMAN2:2 4:3 5:19 6:9,15 8:8 9:16,22 10:4 11:4,12,15 12:6,9,12,19 14:3 15:7,18,21 19:2,4,19 20:3,19 21:6,8 22:2,16,20 23:16 24:7 25:11 26:1,13,17 27:15 28:13,16 29:9,18 31:8,15 32:7 33:15 39:4 40:11 42:2,19 44:9 46:13,15 47:17,19 49:4,8,10 50:1 51:20 52:2,10 53:3,10,15 54:5,17,20 55:7,16,22 56:3,19 57:8,14,17 63:22 65:13 67:6,8 68:9,21 69:20 71:9 72:4 73:18,21

74:4,6,10,14,17 75:14,17,22 80:22 81:5,9,13,15,19, 21 86:15 88:1 90:22 93:1,14 94:7 96:5 97:8,18 99:19,22 100:4,9 101:6,12,21 102:2 104:19 105:19 106:20 108:1,20 110:15 111:1 112:15 113:10,20 114:3,6,11,14 119:14 120:10,14,18,21 121:4 123:5,12 124:9,12,15 125:8 126:15,21 127:13,15 128:9 129:7 130:17 131:18 132:14,17 133:10,13,21 134:14 135:12 136:3,12,15 138:3 139:4,12,14 140:16 141:12 142:16 143:4,16,18 144:21 146:7,10,13,17 147:3 149:4,6 151:1,6 152:2 153:13 154:17 155:7 156:9 158:1,10,14 159:2,11,18,20 160:14 161:13 164:2,9,20 165:1,3,7 166:13

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 8

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 167:19 168:6,19 171:16 173:13,22 174:12,21 178:13,15,17 181:22 184:22 185:2 186:11 188:2,18 189:14 190:14 191:9,18 192:7,10,14 194:15 195:6,20 196:8 197:11,22 198:19 199:7 201:2,20 202:21 203:9 204:8 205:2,10,16,19 206:11,15 207:13,19 208:21 211:18 212:13,20 213:1,4 214:11,22 216:18 218:9 220:11,22 221:11,22 223:4 224:6,12 225:15 228:1 231:8,15,19,22 232:8 233:8,11,18,21 234:14 235:22 236:19 237:9,17 239:14 240:13,16,20 241:8,15 242:22 243:3,11,21 245:19 246:13,16 247:5,8,17 248:5 249:5,18 250:5,10,15 251:8,10,17 252:21 253:20 255:21 257:3 258:21 259:7,22 260:3,9,11,21 261:21 262:3,6 263:3,12,15 264:16,22 265:3 266:4,11 267:20 268:1,3,14,18,21 269:16,19 270:1,5,14,17,19 271:15 272:6,18 273:1,14 274:2,17,21 275:2,10 276:1,6,16,19 277:6,20 278:1 279:12 280:2 Brother176:17 brought97:20 135:10 144:1 156:13 175:8 230:11 241:11 brows 120:12 BTU 71:13 72:19 73:16 BTUs 74:19 building 4:10 46:7 179:18,20 180:10 189:21 194:22 200:19 217:11 built175:12 241:14 bulk240:2 bullet116:17 147:7 bullets 135:17 bumped280:4 bumping150:4 bunch 17:15 190:18 217:17 245:3 burden 80:12 101:17,20 103:19 141:7 burdensome79:19 80:9 85:16 92:16 97:12 126:16 128:14 183:14 business 20:18 262:8 businesses 194:18 button 114:20 buy225:7 buyer69:18 buying 69:11 88:15 178:5 C calculate106:17 115:9 116:18 118:6,20 120:8 calculated118:8 119:3 121:12 141:22 144:4 calculating90:14 94:21 121:15 122:14 calculation 85:9 103:2,4 104:1 106:12 126:16 134:21 203:5,6 240:4 calculations 84:5 141:17 142:6 167:1 calibrated99:20 California 5:6,7,8,9 26:20 101:14 196:11 207:5 271:20 Callie 2:22 5:19,20

capable 215:22 216:16 capacity 63:15 211:21 Capital1:18 Cappellino 2:5 5:1 28:17 88:4 93:2 185:3,7,12,15,18 186:1,20 187:14 188:1,16,20 captive112:2 capture34:12 35:11 44:8 46:2 69:16 76:14 135:18 143:8 captured58:6 261:6 capturing171:2 car178:19,20 214:6 care227:4,6 250:13 careful20:16 48:4 50:20 51:2 171:13 177:9 cares 176:4 carried242:15 carry 262:1 case2:6 4:19 21:8,10 22:3 28:6 40:11,12,13 54:8,18 55:12 56:20 57:2 68:10,17 77:4 78:16 79:9 82:7 105:19,20 108:19 115:22 121:3 134:6,7

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 9

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 154:18 159:5,6 166:15 167:4,5,9,19,20 193:14 201:9,21 203:3 204:11 245:22 249:20 250:13,14 251:11,14 253:10,17 261:1,13 264:9,18 cases 65:7 80:13 145:3 186:6 cash 240:6 cast268:19 casting273:16 Cat133:3 catch 111:10 113:3 150:11 categorically 230:5 categories 22:9 234:11 249:8 categorization 261:11 categorize 21:4 category 13:3 18:16 188:10 236:14 caucus 7:16 10:8 22:17 32:14 112:10 133:22 202:22 caucused 12:22 cause122:19 central 52:21 55:20 centralist 182:6 cents 202:9

certain 25:10 56:1 131:6,14 150:2 177:20 183:22 190:8 191:1,17 194:11 195:12,15 197:9 198:18 210:3 241:20 259:1 certainly 11:5 65:6 72:7 81:1 91:18 144:13 147:6 163:3,16 190:22 195:14 199:2 207:6 208:12 220:17 256:3 269:10 CERTIFICATE 281:1 282:1 certification 107:3,8 certified98:10 99:15 102:13 certify102:22 281:3 282:5 certifying103:5 cetera51:10 222:15 CFR 77:8 chairman 264:10 chance7:11 57:11 164:21 244:10 change 13:16 25:21 26:4 48:15,18,19 65:2 82:13 119:12 124:21 144:12 163:8,9 170:8 181:3 202:16 209:21 246:6 256:17 270:15

271:9 changed 13:15 209:18 changes 48:17 177:16 186:22 217:14 237:1 252:14 275:18 changing 110:14 117:21 118:3 119:9 120:6 125:13 169:21 181:2 characteristics 70:2 81:6,8 100:13 characterize 85:7 Charles 2:3,5 108:9 Charlie 5:1 26:17 28:16,17 88:3,4 93:1 95:9 98:3 156:13 175:8 185:2,3 188:4,18 200:7 241:17 248:6 Charlie's 94:14 175:19 chart118:17 122:3 charts 71:12 chasing 192:5 229:16 chats 255:6 check 113:18 165:18 268:9 chemical22:12 26:12 choice96:13 126:3 238:10 choices 187:13,21

choose96:9,10 103:1 126:5 207:10 chose46:11 162:2 172:7 chosen 207:11 Chuck 4:16 15:21 17:22 21:6 22:20 28:13 30:6 39:4 40:5 47:21 49:12 50:1 68:22 69:20 97:15 99:4 119:14 132:14 142:16 146:17 156:9 164:11 174:21,22 200:4 268:6 circles 192:16 circulate214:1 circulating192:17 227:2 circulation 205:14 circulator179:6 202:2,5 207:11 210:17,19 213:15,16 214:4,7 215:3,10,15 216:6,11,15 219:3 226:1,8 227:2 229:1 232:3,4,6 circulators 10:14 11:19 12:2 74:19 171:19,22 204:6 206:4,7,16 208:1,4 209:11 210:21 211:4,8 212:3,10 215:14 222:17 223:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 10

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 231:12 232:16 234:8,13,20 236:15 237:3,7,13 250:22 261:9 279:7 circumstances 43:3 claim201:15 clarification 24:9 95:7 207:5 213:6 218:10 247:14 273:3 278:19 clarified 278:8 clarify40:1 49:11 102:20 125:11 126:2 172:16 208:9 262:10 266:13 class 127:6 191:1 217:7,8 220:1 classes 151:16 188:5,17,21 190:8 194:9 209:6,9 228:12,17 237:15 classification 18:16 clean 7:1 12:20 13:5,11,14,19 15:2 16:8,16 18:7,15 20:11,12,13 21:15,16,18,20,2 2 23:7,22 24:21 25:4,14 26:6,9 27:1 31:4 32:9 62:11 261:11 262:1 264:19 278:13 clear13:12 14:16 15:14 25:12 26:2 30:8,15,20 90:21 93:4 121:2 134:13 172:16 200:13 205:13 230:20 233:7,8 237:18 248:5 257:8 261:21 clearances 37:17 clearer 199:19 233:6 263:16 clearly14:8 17:19 25:13 61:10 94:9 101:16 183:3 184:2 192:3 240:14 278:11 clerical 165:5 close22:6 24:19 74:16 97:18 111:3 146:2 158:1 223:9 264:20 closed 179:6 180:9 278:15 closely51:4 74:8 179:7 closer67:8 135:4,6 177:17,19 277:5 closing 279:14,22 280:2 closure276:3 code189:21 Cohen 252:22 colleagues 269:8 collect 9:1 68:15 202:3 collected174:5 240:19 collecting132:6

collection 68:12 collectively

257:4 columns 228:6 combination 11:22 104:13 179:21 combinations 85:17 comes 95:22 132:7 188:5 198:13 251:1 253:8 comfortable 99:18 160:15 coming 30:18 42:3 46:15 76:3 88:18 98:17 206:6 208:1 210:11 274:7 comment 22:19 23:17 29:19 43:14 53:4 67:7,9 71:8 102:3 105:21 171:3 198:21 225:16 238:15 241:17 247:6,19 248:6 257:4 261:13 comments37:2 39:3 54:14,20,21 60:20 71:1 87:7 139:15 164:10 165:7 200:10 202:21 247:20 248:1 264:19 276:11 277:21 279:14 commercial1:7 4:7 27:11 94:1,12 95:8,11 217:9 219:16 220:2,4

committee 40:9 44:6 79:8 87:17 264:10 269:22 committee's 184:13 commoditized 225:13 commodity

224:1 common150:21 communicate 69:6,14 88:13 91:10 92:8 96:19 97:2 156:11,13,22 176:12 261:17 communicated 25:20 communicating 124:1 communications 176:9 companies 16:3 136:10 175:4 company1:18 5:9 69:11 75:4 176:1,5 238:22 239:18 comparable 37:12 59:9 62:8 235:1 compare 37:9 44:2 49:14 59:17 73:17 91:9 96:9,18 107:15 118:6 154:5 225:22 compared 49:18 compares 75:2 203:4

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 11

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 comparing 58:12 61:4 90:15 91:6 92:15 96:20 193:17 comparison 91:12 165:20 167:4,10 compel191:3 193:13 compelling 42:21 compels 193:15 194:11 compile 201:12 compiling 139:5 complete 37:12 281:8 completed 264:20 267:22 completely17:14 26:7 37:14 87:19 92:6 211:2 278:10 completing 264:21 complex88:9 134:18 137:5 138:2 complexities 89:18 complexity88:6 93:13 196:7 compliance 59:16 91:10 102:4 103:6 117:13 143:10 144:2 compliant61:7,13 62:3 64:10 77:12 109:4 116:2 126:6 175:16 complicated 255:5 component186:18 187:4 components 53:21 115:14 193:10 compressed 252:19 computer114:17 225:8 conceivably51:12 186:16 187:16 concept 32:9 54:2 88:22 108:18 155:20 262:1 concepts 93:12 conceptual74:1 123:6 124:12,16 126:18,19 134:9 143:19 conceptualized 187:2,8 conceptually 151:12 153:1 155:9,18 concern 24:10 107:6 123:14 153:15 169:20 176:21 177:10 248:20 concerned20:21 28:7 52:5 101:8 136:7 167:3 176:8 188:21 190:16 249:2 concerns 17:13 31:19 70:10 103:18 135:3,5 249:4 concise24:11,14 concluded 266:7 280:7 conclusion 12:2

231:14 condition 68:6 150:3 conditioners 52:21 conditioning 55:20 conditions 52:7 119:17 conduct212:4 confidentiality 254:9 configuration 24:18 34:21 65:3,5 103:20 configurations 34:16 44:4 64:21 65:10 188:7 193:6,20 confine 11:21 confirm10:4 276:7,9 confirmation 112:21 confirmed12:15 confuse 39:16 confusion 122:19 Congress 55:11 conjure27:12 conjuring27:16 consensus 222:22 233:2 246:21 247:2,9 256:7 269:6 278:17 consequence100:8 Conservation 5:15 conservative109:7 consider25:22 33:13 37:14,19 39:17 43:13 58:11 65:4 72:8 76:12,13 79:8 127:6 130:3 134:17 184:17 194:1 223:4 230:21 232:11 233:12 235:19 243:6 245:13 248:2 265:17 considerable 278:13 considerably 207:8 consideration 70:6 72:3 157:14 231:13 238:19 239:16 265:14 considerations 191:5 262:22 considered21:21 25:7 28:4 36:2 45:15 67:22 79:4,18 80:11 83:7 127:3 129:18 143:6 174:19 226:8 243:9 278:14 considering 38:20 62:2 65:8 77:5 85:16 123:18 159:7 169:22 174:14 189:3 199:1 232:15 234:8 236:11 265:19 consistent75:21 79:16 80:1 136:19 161:10 167:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 12

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 consistently79:15 consists 125:11 constant7:9 42:17 150:8 160:8 162:3 167:16,21,22 170:8 194:5 203:13 construct 19:6 27:18 34:22 36:5 38:22 41:3 51:21 56:13 76:9,11 78:20 123:18 131:22 134:9 constructed31:20 33:13 construction 34:2 196:17 consult269:7 consultant136:19 237:12 271:22 consultants 42:5 207:6 252:2 consultation 248:10 Consulting 205:16,19 consumer

73:4 93:18 94:11 96:10,16,19 97:1 156:22 157:11 166:11 187:13 189:20 221:16 consumers 73:3 92:4,9,14 124:1 128:16 187:19,21 194:6 consumer's 215:5 consuming210:21 consumption 60:21 67:2 91:7 167:8 content 247:11 253:4 270:7 continents 74:13 continue 27:16,19 30:10 76:8 83:8 221:6 263:4 274:9 279:21 continued 3:1 221:8 contractor88:17 contractors 228:5 contrary 99:10 contrast 225:13 control83:13 84:14,20,21 85:3,5 102:6 103:13 106:1,11 125:12 140:5,7,15 149:17,21 153:4 155:6,12 156:2,4 171:6 179:16,22 180:9 181:4,5,12,13 182:3,21 183:9,16,17,19,2 2 184:1,2,6,7,8,14, 19 189:20,21 190:9 197:15 215:2 216:1,7 222:6 227:4,6,10,11,13 ,18,21 controlled 66:16,17 152:19 controlling182:11 controls 34:18 35:21 36:8,13 39:18 43:21 44:8 58:9 60:5 61:1 63:3 65:1 66:19 67:5 70:20 76:15 79:9 82:3,6 83:15,17 84:4,9,12,18 85:8,11 103:21 106:4,5,8,10 125:17,20 142:19,20 149:1 151:8 152:19 155:10,11,19,22 156:8 157:19 170:2 171:1 181:21 183:15 184:8,10 188:8,12 195:11 197:7,10 216:17 225:22 convene10:1 251:6 convenience132:1 conversation 7:21 11:8 32:8 108:7 110:19 112:16 122:22 123:3 255:2 256:12 257:16 259:6,19 260:4 271:16 276:18 277:8 279:15 conversations 11:6 239:7 252:18 conversion 239:5 convert 205:5 conveyance8:15 convolute30:10 cool98:21 coolers 226:12

cooling 74:20 core11:1 corner145:22 Corporation 4:17 5:2 correct12:17 87:19 95:17 104:18 114:8 139:11,12 172:21 221:18 226:6,10 227:3 233:16 236:20 244:22 246:14,16 276:5 281:8 correspond36:10 corresponded 175:3 correspondence 175:2 cost89:9 93:21 96:17 154:2 155:17 170:2 202:10,15 216:21 217:3 221:4,6,13,16,18 ,20 223:11,13,19 224:4 225:12,18 226:15 227:12 238:20 239:3,6 240:18 243:18 244:1,2 costs 94:22 96:12 177:16 237:3 239:5,10 Council5:15 Counsel5:17 262:7 count140:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 13

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 country56:2 couple 33:8,12 58:11 60:15 79:6 82:16 84:5 88:5 100:19 108:22 137:14 139:15 175:3 178:10,11 218:12 253:17 263:12,21 274:14,22 coupled 22:7 24:19 course85:14 103:1 241:11 247:19 249:13 269:2 277:11 Court281:4,6 282:1,3,18 cover6:21 7:7 108:16 198:3 208:3 242:7 253:18 260:14 coverage28:10 30:3,5 211:17 278:12 covered6:18,22 14:15,19 15:1 18:16 24:12 26:10 29:21 127:1 129:12 130:8 260:14 278:17 covering133:17 covers 109:21 crappy154:5 create49:3 81:4 123:20 126:1 211:1 created 106:7 254:4 creating78:5 206:22 210:22 credit84:18 149:2 crediting254:2 crew277:3 criteria177:20 194:1 critical97:10 cross 73:16 155:4crosscomparisons 73:5 cross-walk

19:14 21:3 cross-walks 19:13 crunched 254:17 cube 83:21 cubic 140:10 curiosity161:15 curious 145:1 161:16 234:3 238:18 241:10 current 11:1 132:7 198:16 202:7,13 223:13,19 currently 95:12 105:1 117:6 121:17 129:14 133:17 206:9 curve36:12,14 44:14,21 46:6,8 48:16 72:1 77:18 105:5 106:7,11 120:4 137:7,21,22 141:3,4 142:1 146:2 166:4 179:7,14 180:12,15,18 181:3,4 183:7

184:9,18 curves 50:6 71:19 80:8 81:3,4 120:5 148:13 152:5 153:7 154:14 179:11 customer73:16 89:22 90:2,3 91:11 223:22 customers 90:17 107:21 173:10,11 cutoff 70:7 cycle216:21 237:2 D D.C 4:10 Dan 205:1,2,3,10 239:2,21 252:22 Daniel2:21 6:1 Dan's 204:17 darker36:11 180:12 data7:16,18 9:1 10:9 51:5 54:13 68:11,15 76:16 81:4 83:4 100:6 105:9,22 107:1,20 126:11 130:21 131:11,14,20,22 132:3,4,6,10,12 133:9,16 136:11 138:20 139:5 141:18 143:1,12,14 144:4,5 146:22 154:12 161:4 163:17 166:16 167:17 170:14,22

172:19 173:10 174:5 183:4 191:7 201:12 202:2 203:5 204:7 205:20 206:2,3,6,9,10,1 4,16,21 210:15,18 211:7 213:7 218:14 220:14 222:16 234:2,10 236:10 238:4,13 247:22 253:11,19 254:15 255:3,10,15 256:19 257:11,14 258:3,9 259:10,18 279:1,3 database 173:9 258:17 date10:6,20 170:20 198:18 250:6,9 281:17 dates 8:6 276:4 day4:11 6:10,11,17 7:1 22:21 51:16 70:16 111:17 112:6 114:20 124:2 164:22 178:10 192:20 193:7 200:22 213:16,17,21 214:3,15,18 276:8 days 10:7 48:2 114:12 199:16 253:17 258:4,13 263:21 268:11 274:14,22 278:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 14

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 279:16 deadline 257:22 deal48:4 51:15 63:16 74:13 141:3 234:22 237:21 260:14 dealing 89:4 130:2 238:7 deals 94:13 dealt32:1 debate207:10 221:8 decide 10:13 44:6 54:1 55:13 77:10,19 87:17,22 94:16 101:9 102:22 140:18 149:13 208:10,14,15 222:21 252:11 261:15 decided 28:15 52:15 55:18 190:20 211:17 250:21 278:15 decision 7:2 8:22 9:3,8 90:4 112:11 115:1 163:2 190:22 207:22 210:6 232:13 238:13 241:1 256:8 276:8 278:14 decisions 90:19 128:16 176:10 240:12 decline 230:5 dedicate229:9 deep 81:15 deeper263:10 deeply253:3 default109:3,7 125:14,16,21 126:3,4 127:2 130:3 142:1 152:5,13 169:9 183:15 defaults 109:18 defer243:2 deferred201:10 define 22:6 23:22 26:7 30:1,4 188:9 278:11 defined 23:20 39:14 278:16 defining 29:20 98:12 128:6 278:9 definite 12:4 definitely43:7 61:18 67:22 79:4 141:14 157:4 174:13,18 220:2 255:1 definition 7:1 12:20 13:1,11,14,19 15:3,14,16 16:8,12,19,21 18:5,7,9,15 19:14 23:21 24:4,5,13 25:14 28:8 29:6 30:13 130:8 156:17 191:22 261:11 269:2,3 278:13 definitions 17:11 24:15 31:22 delaying 236:9 deliberate51:8

deliberation 91:19 delineate 13:10 delta202:4,11,12 226:15 227:16 demonstrate59:16 demonstrates 118:17 denominator 37:3,19,20 38:21,22 40:18 56:16,18 57:22 58:3,10,12,13,15 ,17,21 59:7,10,22 60:1,2 62:15,20 63:18 64:15 65:6,7,17 67:10,15 76:22 78:3,4,17,19 82:9 84:17 85:14 86:1 123:1,2,10,21 256:9,13,16,18 denominators 65:2,9 Department1:4 4:7 94:5 201:5 266:6 dependence 37:13 depending 61:15 149:12 160:21 167:17 222:3,5 247:19 265:8 depends 102:21 133:2 146:11 186:14 246:8 263:1 276:21 derive152:12 describe112:19 described 7:5 20:6 24:10 66:16 140:19 279:5 describing 34:15 description 85:6 128:18 248:8 deserves 233:4 design 50:3 59:12,19 69:9,10 154:13 166:4 214:7 226:1 designation 61:13 designed 129:17 191:2 198:7 designer48:2 165:15 designing 159:16 244:2 designs 68:2 175:20 191:16 226:2 desire257:19 detail33:11,19,21 135:22 242:12 243:9 252:4 254:22 detailed 66:9 76:5 157:15 211:21 218:14 details 36:21 41:7 56:8 76:2 134:10 259:15 267:6 determination 75:8,11 169:12 determine 58:14 77:7 83:14 84:13 130:20 170:18 173:6 180:20 211:13 252:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 15

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 determined 30:9 130:5 134:13 170:16 240:13 determining 169:9 173:3 detract 237:14 detrimental176:2 develop 239:6 developed 83:3 195:9 196:21 developing 27:13 development 187:2 devote237:12 diaphragm20:15 Diego 5:8 diesel131:9 diesels 132:19 difference 119:7 142:3,8 147:10,13,15,18 161:19 162:5 168:14 183:6 219:1 223:13,14,19 225:20 226:1 differences 36:22 different16:15 20:8 25:5 31:11 35:2,4 40:22 41:5 43:3 45:12 46:9 51:19 58:6 59:9 64:20,21 65:5,7 68:1,2 69:7,8,15,17 75:19 77:16 79:1 80:5,8,20,21 81:2,3 82:12 84:19,20 85:17 89:21 106:15 107:17 115:9 116:11,12,16,21 117:16,17,18 118:4,19 119:16 120:8 123:1,20 125:22 135:20 139:2 140:1,2,3 141:5 142:14 144:8,15 148:13,14 149:17,20 151:21 152:7 154:14 155:19 157:18 161:6 169:14 170:2 171:6 178:6,22 179:22 181:21 182:2,5,20 184:18 197:14 207:9 208:19 209:2,6 211:2,3,11 212:11,16 215:2 219:1 220:19 221:10 226:21 228:20 230:9 237:6 239:9 245:9,22 247:3 248:3 249:21 256:21 262:19 267:6 271:1 differential 152:9 154:2 202:8 221:14 differentials 202:15 differentiate 80:7 109:5 128:15 140:3 151:14 183:9,17,20 197:14 221:15 differentiated 183:4

differentiation 27:9 85:4 153:6 204:5 differently144:11 difficult43:4 44:2 59:17 60:13 174:14 211:6 difficulties 27:4 difficulty43:18,22 61:12 137:13 183:16 229:3 Digital282:18 dilemma7:5 dimensionless 58:15 dimensions 92:19 diminish 211:20 257:3 diminished 57:10 277:11 dinner201:10 direct246:5,10 247:1 261:16 direction 25:19 186:8 199:14 277:9 282:7 directly179:18 263:20 277:8 disadvantaged 151:20 disadvantages 87:21 disagree166:12 disagreement14:6 discounted 240:6 discrete145:13,14 174:15

discuss 56:6 79:7 87:9 130:15 135:11,21 151:8 154:10 discussed 33:7 37:1 56:13 58:18 83:3 130:22 160:18 205:4 248:13 discussing 186:15 237:20 discussion 6:20 7:8 8:9 10:10,22 11:7,16 25:12 31:2,12 33:1,18 34:3 41:2 56:10 63:20 82:5 110:3 112:22 114:9 115:10 133:18 197:20 199:17 207:16 212:22 216:9 232:15 233:1,5,16,17,19 236:9 248:10 264:6 265:7 267:8 268:22 271:17 278:13,16,20 discussions 27:1 34:7,13 40:19 157:13 241:12 disfavor 159:15 disperse 239:6 displacement 28:20 29:1,12 disqualify49:1 50:14 distinction 25:2 distinguish 14:14

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 16

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 148:16 distraction 17:21 distribution 44:13 46:9 160:18,19,22 165:9 168:11 172:8 246:20 distributions 258:19 259:10 distributors 132:10,13 Diver41:16 divide 65:19,20 67:15 divided 77:1 86:6 204:20 diving 81:15 document

13:15 161:12 247:12 documents271:9 273:7,9 DOE 5:17,18 8:19 14:4 17:4 19:5,12 27:4,12 31:17 42:4 43:4 52:15 55:11,18 93:19 94:20 95:8,10,18,20,22 115:2 143:11 170:18 190:3,20 194:1,3,11 198:5 207:6 211:19 217:21 218:5 228:4 229:14,18 230:1,19 236:12 237:12 238:18 240:11 243:12 245:14 246:18 261:5 262:7 264:3 265:15 268:14 278:7

DOE's 14:5 17:5 32:11 77:8 91:17 104:2 154:10 166:14 210:4 231:1 241:1 245:19 DOE-whatever 216:21 dollars 131:8 175:14,16 216:8 domestic 108:16 176:3 205:14 213:13,19,21 214:1 215:3,10 216:2 done 7:18 19:5 61:8 74:9 77:18 82:3 84:5 85:1 103:3,4,5 113:13 115:1 137:9 190:12,21 196:12 210:2 212:16 230:16 236:14 244:20 245:6 246:19 250:2 251:7 252:4 253:14 255:5 269:9 279:13 door98:15 dots 180:12 double 113:18 228:22 doubt154:11 Doug2:2 5:3 8:20 32:20 52:1 87:6 91:1 93:3 127:16,17 151:3 158:18 159:2 207:2 233:13 247:14 268:17

276:4 DOUGLAS 2:10 Doug's 159:6 downhill 240:9 draw139:18 140:14,22 180:13 drawing 139:21 drawn 205:6 drill256:10 drive 70:15 82:9,18,19 83:1 85:7,12,13 96:21 98:2 99:5 123:16 144:12 149:16 152:17 153:4 159:9 169:13 171:6 174:16 178:19 179:12,15,17 181:10,13 182:17,21 185:8 186:2,4,5 187:10,12 191:3,21 192:1,13 193:6,10,17,18,1 9 195:14,17 265:20 driven 129:15 driver34:17,18 41:15 58:8 60:10 64:10,22 65:1 69:5 71:18 73:11 129:5 drivers 64:3,6 129:13 130:11 131:2,9 133:19 drives 132:19 142:13,14,17 185:9 186:9 195:11 197:7 198:3 driving 193:7 227:5 drop 142:10 dropping 184:4 due 37:17 161:4 174:15 during 112:11 241:11 266:8 dynamics 48:19,20 50:6 E earlier48:2 58:18 89:8 113:8 121:11 136:15 144:2 148:13 175:9 237:10 241:17 early4:6 6:10 54:19 ease16:9 49:5 97:11 easier22:10 25:2 26:11 63:9 101:3 136:2 228:22 272:3 277:15 easiest62:14 79:17 easily73:5,16 easy14:20 21:19 84:19 93:8 101:3 272:7 echo 105:21 Eckman 2:15 5:14 8:1,5 9:19 10:1,19 11:5,13

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 17

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 12:5,7,10 53:17 108:21,22 151:12,18 152:4,7,17,22 153:6,11 168:19,20 169:19 170:11 171:3,12 172:10,14 234:14,15 236:1 237:19,20 240:20,21 241:13 246:8 247:6 250:7,12,19 251:9 255:21,22 270:8 276:4 Eckman's 263:4 ECM147:11,12 148:5 149:3,8,11,16,19 152:15 154:6 196:3 202:5 203:14,15 213:9 215:10,14 223:16 225:17,22 226:1,11 227:15,17 235:6 ECMs 149:1 economic 163:21 168:21 170:9 191:5 194:2,6 230:14 238:10 economically 249:10 economies 59:6 223:15 Edison 5:8 41:10 edit113:18 edited 113:14 268:7 editing 268:9 edits 41:13 educate88:14 96:16 EEI 37:1 42:6 52:12 53:7 59:8 60:1 62:5 64:1,8 66:15 71:10 73:2 78:22 87:12,15 93:16 95:5 108:2 124:6 130:18 132:9 144:22 146:15 155:8 159:8 161:14 163:19 168:3 189:16 195:7 198:1 222:1 273:5 EER 55:20 189:19 effect170:7 194:10 216:15 242:21 effective 50:17 224:5 effectively153:19 188:14 efficiencies 50:5 54:3 60:11 101:4,7 147:13 efficiency7:16 23:2 35:5,12,14,19 36:2 37:9 38:8 47:9 48:9,15 50:4 52:15 53:1 54:13 55:2 58:16 59:4 60:1,4,6,7,10 62:19,21 63:6,7,13,17 70:7 71:20 76:15

77:2,3,7,15 78:2,6,11,14,16 79:2,14 80:3,8 82:9,18 83:1,8,10 84:1 85:13 86:2,8,21 87:1,3 88:21 89:1 91:7 95:15,19 96:2,3 99:13 104:9,12,15 106:6 110:14 115:8,11,15,16 116:1,4,7,16,18, 21 117:1,3,5,12,17, 22 118:10,12,15,18 119:1,2,10,13,16 ,19 120:6 122:3,17 123:19 124:4,20 125:15,22 128:3,7 129:21 140:20,22 141:4,8,16,20 142:3,10 143:13 147:21 149:16 153:18 154:15 156:3 159:8 168:22 169:2,10,21 172:22 177:12 181:11 186:17 187:5 190:5,7,10 193:7 195:9 199:22 211:10 235:9 259:10,13 260:10 277:3 efficient37:10,17 59:6 63:16 77:12 96:11,12,21 104:8,15 106:12 126:11,12 148:6

178:18 179:6 187:1 195:19 216:10,14 229:18 effort16:2 206:1 efforts 10:8 264:15 279:2 eight147:13,14,21 either8:3,6 13:9 31:4 50:14 58:22 62:3 77:8 84:1 130:2 131:8 153:3 166:7 169:4 170:22 181:3 195:9 231:17 250:10 251:7 253:7 269:7 electric5:9 41:11,18 73:10 95:13 115:14 129:16 130:2 131:20 electrical215:13 electricity131:17 202:10 207:8 elegance109:20 elements 11:22 12:1 66:10,12 69:14 265:18 eliminate21:14 else 13:10 98:7,16 120:21 121:1 125:18 163:16 251:1 257:12 260:18 270:16,22 276:13 elucidate110:6

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 18

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Elucidations 202:21 email164:17 273:22 emails 274:3 embedded 110:9 empathetic26:21 empathize 199:8 emphasize168:20 employed 282:9 enable 215:3 encompass 19:18 encourage216:14 energy 1:4 7:16 35:6,12,14,19 38:9,10 41:18 58:20 73:15 75:9,13 87:16 90:14,18 91:7 93:9,19,21 94:5,22 96:18 131:16 139:20,21 153:21 155:17 156:3,5,18 157:1 159:8 161:16,19 162:6 167:2,7,8 169:18 172:19,20 173:1,5,8,11 185:19 186:5,8 187:6 189:13 194:7 199:22 201:5 203:14 204:21 209:7,9,14 210:11 211:8,9,15,16 212:5 215:11,13 216:11 217:14 228:14,17 229:4,8,10,16 230:10 254:20 256:15,20,22 261:9 266:6 277:2 Energy's 4:7 enforceable32:12 enforcement14:15 32:1 102:7,8,9,12,16 103:6 144:3,6 262:8 engine 129:17,21 130:4 132:19 engineer 69:9,10,18 153:22 engineered51:15 engineering212:4 engineers 154:13 engines 98:21 132:5 enlarge57:14 enter169:11 entertain112:3 enthusiasm171:4 entire32:14 50:7 63:6 169:22 entirely59:4,5 242:5 entry 28:21 envision 69:1 envisioned 65:18 envisioning 185:7 EPCA 94:13 equal39:10 41:4 50:10 160:18 161:2,9,17,21 162:12 163:15 165:8 168:8,10 169:10 172:8 173:2,4 equally36:5 163:12 165:22 equation 33:22 34:6 35:3 63:1 76:8,18,20 78:13 79:20 80:2 84:2 86:20 87:1 115:13 116:22 117:9,19 118:13,20 119:15 121:12 124:21 127:21 128:19 129:5,19 135:19,20 137:22 157:8 169:12 equations 64:4,9 80:21 equipment 37:15,16 58:7 59:5 63:15,17 85:17 89:4,15 106:3 107:4,17 194:8 195:12 equivalent117:19 118:20 128:5 203:15 256:22 errors 165:5 especially7:15 10:14 36:16 45:15 107:16 108:9 131:15 135:16 140:9 222:14 essentially33:3,9 46:6 55:11 72:8 80:4 83:13,21 84:18 85:6 86:2

91:4 105:5 118:4 145:6 153:17 191:13 211:1 217:21 240:6 244:13 266:9 establish 7:10 10:13 107:11 226:22 264:5 266:5 established 8:11 10:5 61:11 107:14 establishment 264:4 estimate161:16 167:8 211:9 218:22 221:7 224:8 226:4 230:7 234:17 235:4 238:19 256:4,21 estimated93:20 202:4 209:2 estimates 209:3 211:9 218:13 219:13 220:8,9 254:21 estimating 218:17 et51:10 222:15 EU28:14 30:8,13 35:17 37:1 59:22 61:8 66:13 74:8 117:2 128:2 158:20 159:3,8 175:5,18 Europe 64:2 106:5 Europeans 28:12 160:11 165:12 166:3

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 19

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 evaluate48:14 51:4,13 100:22 116:11 230:12 evaluated197:18 evaluating230:9 evaluation 175:5 evaporator 224:18,22 event15:13 153:3 eventually14:15 163:20 190:3 everybody

13:12 15:9 20:22 39:19 53:19 90:14 111:18 136:21 160:15 183:19 210:8 213:10 261:22 279:17 Everybody's 177:12 everyone4:5 77:11 91:3 197:17 222:3 242:5 266:2 276:13 everyone's 116:3 266:17 everything20:10 21:14 24:1 42:16 87:14 101:20 152:19 164:14 173:17 236:4 243:20 244:12 exact 102:13 exactly 24:11 109:1 116:19 165:3 167:9 242:14 257:18 example 7:2 10:14 11:17 31:4 33:6 58:4 72:19 73:6 76:19 82:3 84:5 104:7 118:5 119:4,18 123:16 125:1 126:5 155:11 183:21 189:3 194:5 196:11 224:11 examples 19:21 23:12 79:10 163:7 184:5 263:13 excellent 71:6 79:3 105:16 136:13 138:18 180:2 208:17 except 44:13 78:10 109:19 142:13,16 exception 206:4 275:6,12 279:7 exceptions 31:7 exclude 14:2 22:8,15 26:11,15 28:22 excluded 12:1 15:17 20:10 30:4 232:17 excludes 149:8 excluding 133:11 exclusion 28:19 29:11 exclusions 8:13 14:18 278:15 excruciating 242:11 252:3 excuse166:17 exercise210:7 228:16 exist225:12

existing212:7 exists 249:9 expect 26:4 234:9 expectation10:12 expectations 265:11 expected111:12 expects 205:22 expense107:13 expensive 223:17 experience31:21 99:5,9,12 225:21 explain 72:22 94:4 120:18 121:7 127:19 242:20 explains 242:11 explanation 33:6 123:16 explication 121:1 extended10:22 197:20 251:2 extensive210:20 extent 9:6 74:1 95:21 103:1 109:6 172:18 186:14 190:21,22 192:16 247:11 262:20 275:22 extra17:15 extreme 162:11 extremely85:16 167:12 eyes 224:9 273:16 F face 222:13

faces 111:3 fact9:14 16:11 24:4,11 45:2 85:22 92:7 104:2 180:5 241:2 factor44:18,21 45:1 52:19 65:18 66:2 83:13 84:14 85:10 99:6 145:22 149:18,21 173:17,20 181:9,13 183:16,19,22 184:3,6,7,19 209:16 217:15 256:18 factored203:20 factoring181:11 factors 44:17 48:20 50:9 84:20 98:14,22 99:16 134:19 156:21 167:14 170:20 172:4 176:11 178:8 fail 49:19 216:3 failed 224:16 fair 164:13 fairly235:7,14 fall 22:9 falls 173:12 familiar85:15 242:5 253:4 269:9 fan 55:1,2 71:20 224:18,22 225:8 231:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 20

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 fans 107:19 196:1 farther230:17 favor15:9 276:12 favorable 229:20 favored 165:22 feasibility 11:6 278:7 feasible 43:9 113:16 249:10 feature100:10 federal117:13 125:15 126:8 127:1 152:14 195:10 278:6 feedback 262:13 feel99:18 157:20 192:5,16 feeling 112:1 256:6 feels 9:2 220:16 276:13 fellow 192:9 199:9 Fernstrom2:14 5:6,7 26:19 30:22 38:1,3,7,10,13 42:22 101:12,13 173:13,14 196:8,9 203:10,18 205:12 207:1,14 208:16 212:13,14,21 213:3 214:10,11,12 215:19 221:1,17 223:6 224:10,15 226:5,16,20 227:9,17,20 231:9 243:4 271:19 276:20 277:2 fictitious 106:7 field 47:7 156:12 161:5,6 166:8,17 figure 14:11 32:10 35:10 93:13 229:6 250:8 255:16 269:19 figured 269:17 figuring 90:5 228:18 fill 228:6 final 58:13,14 228:6 246:6,11 247:1 248:2 finally 7:22 financial 282:10 fine 18:10 21:2 48:22 51:3 176:6 217:18 224:20 235:21 236:1 270:9,11 276:15 finish 51:22 79:10 129:22 264:12 finished 205:17 finishes 265:13 first12:14,15 22:6,18 39:6,10 42:2 44:9 54:7,21 60:19 63:10 71:8 116:17 123:9 127:16 130:1 141:12 153:13 158:2 178:10 180:4,11 217:22 228:16 244:10 245:5 246:17 253:1 259:2 269:2,12 270:9

fit76:11 87:3 fits 76:2 85:21 112:20 five 97:10 105:3 147:14,21 150:4 195:16 199:8 201:4 217:16 245:7 258:4,13 five-year209:14 fixed 224:17 flat127:10 flexibility 55:13 flipped 108:3 flipping72:8 floor191:13 flow 36:14 37:13 40:21 43:7 58:19 59:3 67:10,13,16 68:6,8,13,15 70:1 72:10 73:7 77:9 115:18,20 116:8 117:6,8 118:7 128:4,7 145:2 146:3 150:2 154:14 155:13 167:16,22 179:1 180:5,17,20,21 181:1,2,6,19,20 184:12 240:7 248:8 Flowserve4:16 174:22 175:15 fluid 58:21 226:17 fluids 227:2 focus 18:9 29:1 48:5 156:6 165:13 166:19 187:3 266:19

focused 16:1 210:22 focuses 266:21 fold 212:7 folks 6:12 19:8 20:18 112:16 201:3 213:7 253:3 267:15 follow-on 9:10,15 11:10 53:4 55:8 199:4 208:6,13 235:20 250:22 follow-up 95:6 foot178:20,21 forced 239:19 foregoing 282:4 foregoing/ attached281:7 form19:7 23:13 33:3 56:21 212:16 formal 232:20 format 34:6 85:13 112:18 129:14 253:1 254:6,10 265:5 forming279:19 formula42:16,21 64:16 70:12 98:19 102:5,9 103:10 121:18 253:18 formulas 64:11 98:9 Forrestal4:10 forth 108:5 144:6 206:6 253:3

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 21

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 255:12 260:5 forthright279:17 fortunately277:13 forward 54:4 89:12 121:8 133:16 197:6 235:20 250:1 262:1 279:2,3,21 foundries 177:17 fraction 82:21 fractions 78:18 82:8 frame22:12 51:21 231:5 250:21 framework

13:15 34:5 36:1 37:2 105:12,18 161:12 265:5 FREEMAN3:7 freezer 224:16 225:9 freezers 225:10 226:13 frequency144:12 179:17 fresh 11:13 friends 26:21 231:11 front25:4 114:15 240:3 242:7 frozen 224:18 FTC 93:18 94:6,10 fuel41:18 full 23:9 42:8 52:16,18 53:1 55:3 70:10 77:7 80:3 95:15 116:4 119:19 132:3 134:16 139:19 140:4 141:15,20 142:2 143:8,9 147:22 148:8,16,17 154:1 160:5 183:2 203:13 207:15 211:15 245:15 full-blown 216:21 full-up 244:13 fully 7:5 140:21 191:8 function 58:19 59:3 115:18,19 116:8 117:10 214:6,8 fundamental 35:13 185:12 furnace 55:2 furrowed 120:12 future 105:13,17 130:3 168:15 G gain 12:17 70:13 100:7 112:17 gained 200:11 gaining 154:4 gains 70:14 71:3 gallons 67:16,19 72:19 73:7,11,12 87:15,16 game178:9 gamut 23:9 109:21 gaps 134:2 Gary 2:14 5:6 26:18,19 30:22 31:9 37:22 38:3,18 42:22 101:6,12,13 173:13,14 195:21 196:8,9 203:9 205:11,12 206:20 207:1 208:16 212:13,14 213:12 214:11,12 215:19 220:22 221:1,13 222:20 223:5,6 224:7 226:5 230:11 231:8,9,16 242:22 243:2,3,4 271:18,19 276:20 Gary's 71:12 203:5 gas 5:8,9 131:9 178:20 gate27:19 gates 30:20 gathering51:5 279:2 GC 246:18 gear13:8 20:13 geek 52:13 general5:17 10:16 34:3,4 36:1 37:16 41:3 56:12 74:3,4,5 76:9 108:17 112:2 136:21 173:1 196:16 225:17 227:4 262:7 265:5 279:5 generally20:14 28:1 43:13 61:22 88:19 135:18 136:21 160:10 189:6,12 207:21 226:8 241:16 260:19 267:2,11 279:4 generate33:21 237:2 generated49:16 generating184:13 generic99:13 generically 190:5,6 germane 267:8 gets 27:13 29:22 66:3 93:2 94:14 199:12 222:10 241:14 263:16 getting56:8,14 132:10,12 167:6,10 176:9 181:16 222:19 228:11 258:18 272:8 gig 176:14 given 61:3 91:6 234:9 235:16 243:16,17 257:21,22 265:22 gives 66:7 160:7 235:7 giving 140:6 227:7 273:6 glad 6:15 8:2 201:7 goal7:21 16:5 34:2,3 89:12 92:7 100:20 109:10 257:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 22

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 goals 93:6,9 96:6 100:14 128:13,17 golf 38:6 gone 14:10 200:6 241:3 gotten 241:17 government176:4 195:10 governors 99:1 GPM71:12,13 grade137:7 grammatical 268:9 gray16:16 great 12:13 27:12 38:14 54:3 56:15 74:13,19 176:10 219:10 255:19 260:9,14 265:1 277:20 greater 225:20 226:9 227:16 greatest 48:10 green 11:22 26:5 36:10,11 180:12 211:7 212:9 279:6 Greg2:6,11 4:19 5:4 20:19 21:8,10 40:11,13 52:11 53:3 54:6,7,8 56:19,20 63:21 68:9,10 88:3 99:8 104:19 105:19,20 109:1 120:15 134:6,7 154:17,18 159:5,11 167:19 201:9,20,21 203:2,3 245:21 249:18,20 251:10,11 253:7,8 264:8,9 Greg's 56:4,5 Groh 6:6 ground 6:18 12:17 112:17 172:12 200:11 262:4 271:17 272:18,19 group 1:8 4:8,11 8:10,16,21 9:2,8 10:6 11:1 21:2 32:3 33:4,5,12 72:3 87:22 113:16 130:5,14 155:1 190:2 201:8 207:21 208:7 215:16 222:9 230:22 243:13 247:16,22 260:19 262:13 265:10 266:19 267:10 270:10 271:3,7 273:12 275:6,13 279:19 280:7 grouping 157:11 groups 271:6 group's 12:3 Grundfos 5:4 guaranteeing 99:14 guess 7:13 27:22 32:22 47:14 103:9 114:19 155:20,22 194:17 195:5 203:4 204:13

207:20 209:1,11 217:2 223:16 228:19 266:12 272:10 guessing 30:21 131:18 guide 93:20 guidelines 245:4 guy98:13 176:17 guys 26:8 44:6 48:4 97:22 107:22 109:5 145:18 151:18 156:21 168:14 175:7 178:2 209:4 225:21 228:15 252:10 256:8 275:15 H half 25:19 48:11 233:22 277:11 hand 207:22 handful 177:3 handle 146:20 159:16 handles 27:5 94:10 handout7:11 hands 232:19 Handzel2:7 4:20 25:16 158:4,8,11 181:8,17 182:1,5,10,13,20 191:18,19 192:8,11 193:3 194:16 219:5,8,21 220:5,11 244:20 245:3 253:8,22 254:6,14

255:7,14,20 262:2,5 266:12 267:3 Hang 21:6 happen 9:20 48:17 54:4 77:5 78:7 105:7 147:2 220:21 259:16,20 happens 150:15 213:18 happy17:9 133:7 178:12 212:21 242:7 hard 10:13 89:17 90:6 111:5 215:15 277:4 harder187:17 hardheaded 21:1 hardly52:17 haven't21:21 25:6,7 32:8 197:1 221:4 230:16 263:20 274:6 having 8:8 19:5 28:21 31:21 58:12,13 59:7,21 62:15 90:6 92:15 109:2,17 111:4 140:4,5,7 152:4 197:17,19 199:2,4 200:2 223:9 236:1 240:21 242:8 253:2 256:12 272:5 277:8 head 36:14 68:1,6 70:6 72:11 89:17 90:6 140:13

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 23

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 150:2,17 179:2,3 180:6,16,20,21 181:1,2,7,19 182:14 184:4,11 276:2 277:9 headed 100:12 102:6 168:16 heading 248:7 heads 68:1 88:11 89:5 hear20:19 21:9 29:18 54:9 135:2 267:10 269:11 277:4,10 heard 7:15 25:13 28:3 32:8 103:18 234:1 236:16 261:3 271:4 276:11 277:4,19 hearing111:5 156:12 heart23:4 heartburn 136:18 heating74:20 204:3 213:15 218:20 heavily160:20 162:13 194:19 heck 233:22 held 27:17 he'll274:1 help 23:1 29:8 49:11 82:14 90:7,11 110:2,10 115:4 125:11 128:16 145:21 148:11 163:1 180:14 184:13 193:21 208:8,10 211:13 228:3,9 229:5 240:11

helpful 47:20 61:3 72:21 113:15,21 136:12,17 153:22 167:12 199:5 238:14,15 242:18 257:6 261:4 271:21 274:3,5 275:19 helps 31:1 hereby281:3 282:4 here's 66:8 125:12 176:14 177:10 262:19 herself 145:22 he's 98:15 219:21 269:14 hey75:8,11 176:13 201:3 Hi21:10,12 33:5 35:16 37:2 40:13 54:8 56:20 60:20 68:10 105:20 106:21 154:18 161:11 165:11 172:7 203:3 213:19 249:20 264:9 265:13 279:2 high 34:7 36:1 93:5,10 100:14 108:6 123:8 128:3 131:21 139:16 153:18 155:13 157:12 188:13 190:11 222:10 223:3 higher38:15,21,22 58:2,16 61:9 145:2,20 153:8 170:3 203:22

244:3 highest23:1 highly 154:11 HI's 77:17 218:22 hit114:19 166:5 195:1 hits 183:13 hitting 31:11 97:6 hold 202:20 239:20 holder269:20 holding 170:8 home123:17 134:4 honest172:2 hooking 150:16 hope 7:7 10:7,11 31:5 113:16 135:5 197:5 206:2 211:12 267:22 268:2 hopefully 33:19 34:3 40:19 59:15 94:9 110:9 115:4 136:10 159:15 252:11,12 267:21 hoping 169:17 204:2 256:19 horse132:20 133:1,2 219:22 horsepower37:4,7 67:19 68:17 121:14 122:16 150:3,4 171:22 189:3 195:13,17 196:1 197:4 202:6 204:15,20 217:4

219:15,18,20 226:9 227:1 horsepowers 205:5 hospital23:5 hot203:21 204:2 205:14 213:13,19,21 214:2,14,17,18 215:3,10 216:2 hour71:13 73:12,13 202:8,9 218:6 233:22 hours 44:13,22 45:3,5,7 46:9 69:8 138:5,11 203:7,22 210:3 213:13,14,17,20, 21 214:2,15,17 215:17,21 217:12 218:18 219:13 222:6 235:12 266:15 house 117:1 178:5 How's 102:1 178:16 HP 121:14 HSPF52:21 Huber4:21 12:21,22 15:6,12,13,19 20:2,3,4,21 21:7 23:18,19 25:6 29:5,15 42:4,20 46:18,21 47:2,5,13 73:21 74:2,3,5,7,11,15, 18 75:15,18 96:5,6 100:18 101:7 136:5,6,14

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 24

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 159:18,20,21 160:2,7 165:10,11 171:16,17 201:13 206:8,13 220:13 235:22 236:6 243:2,12,22 248:16 249:11,15 257:8,17 258:3,6,11 259:13,16 267:14,21 268:2 Huber's 10:7 huge 70:13 71:3 99:9 167:20 199:15 HUGER 2:8 hundred 216:8 hundreds 20:7 hung 156:16 hurdle 83:5 155:2,4,5 hurdles 243:5 HVAC 138:21 172:5 178:21 179:6 195:15 226:3 hybrid 7:4 hydraulic 4:19 42:11 48:2,16 58:22 62:16 63:3,7 68:4,5,7 72:9,12 77:9 78:4 86:6,8,9,22 115:15,17 117:15 118:2,9 134:7 215:16 hydraulics 70:4 hydronic 204:2,3 hygienic 12:16 hypothesis 120:14 hypothetical 114:22 184:5 I I'd 11:8 38:17 39:22 40:4,18 48:21 57:8 75:8,11 103:9 112:6 127:18 128:9 133:7 136:20 218:5,7 221:2 226:21 231:10 232:14 277:14 idea 16:13 66:8 148:20 185:18 219:2 idealize 105:10 ideally255:3 ideas 112:3 identify 14:8,12,13,18 15:1,15 18:15 24:20 ignore 43:10 117:3 I'll36:21 48:7 51:14 52:19 58:4,6 72:22 76:5 79:7 94:8 98:19 102:18 112:3,9 120:16 141:10 155:11 172:15 219:6 232:2 243:2 253:8 263:3 273:19 illustrate196:12 I'm6:18 11:13 12:14 15:1,22 17:5 18:21 22:5 23:11,19 25:10 26:9 28:11 30:11 33:20 37:21 39:6 42:3 43:21 44:19 46:15,22 49:7 50:2,20 51:1 53:10,13 55:9 57:20,21 71:3,11 72:6 76:1,4,8 79:8 82:2,13 87:5,10 88:11 89:16 90:5,11,21 91:18 95:7 98:3,12 99:9 101:8 102:17,18 108:5 110:1,4 114:15,17,19,21 120:10,11 121:7,21 125:1 131:18 133:7,21,22 142:12 145:1,17 155:21 156:7 158:21 160:14 161:15 164:9 170:11,12 172:1,14,21 175:11 176:8,9 177:10,11,12 178:22 179:1 180:3,6,8 182:22 185:11,15 210:13 215:9,15,21 216:5,12,20,22 218:11 221:13 223:2 224:15 226:6 227:14,20 228:7 229:5 231:11,19,20 232:21 235:21 236:16 238:3 250:16,20 251:3

252:9 256:13 258:12,15 268:12 270:11,13 273:15 276:1 277:11 imagine36:15 145:17 259:1 imbedded244:9 immediate4:14 impact 23:1 48:18 99:17 143:2 163:21 167:2,18 175:6 186:19 194:2,6 213:9 240:1,6 241:1,4 243:10 impacted 175:10 impacts 173:6 241:6 243:18 impede50:12 implement62:14 implementation 241:22 implementing 83:6 implications 51:10 241:19 implicitly30:4 implies 122:17 important

31:22 44:7 56:8 72:12 119:22 152:10 248:16 256:13 261:14 imported 198:8 imports 108:16

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 25

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 impossible274:16 impression8:20 12:7 70:11 impressive221:4 improve71:2 80:6 153:3 155:5,6 170:22 177:13 193:8 235:9 improved 170:4 improvement 70:20 104:10 153:2 162:16 181:12 187:7 235:2,7,13 improvements 149:19 152:20 187:5 improving151:19 169:13 170:7 190:5,6 inaccurate79:15 incent191:15 incentive 198:6 199:2 incentives 198:15,16,17 incidence 203:21 incline 179:13,14 inclined 104:3 inclining 179:13 include 29:6 78:3 84:17 119:17 129:13 227:11,18,21 232:3,6 249:8 272:15 included 7:3 30:2,13 130:10 248:21

includes 24:5 130:9,11 245:10 including 28:8 129:13 211:8 243:10 inclusive 63:2 increase80:11 82:15 191:16 239:9 increased239:3 increasing211:10 incremental224:3 index 159:8 indicate 115:1 235:2 indicated 258:21 indicates 61:10 62:6 69:4 71:2 indifferent

176:21 individual 29:21 30:5 31:7 49:18 51:9 53:21 99:8 111:15 156:1,6,8 individuals 7:22 111:7,20 113:2,11 201:4 233:3 268:4 induction 147:10,11 202:4 223:18 224:1 227:15 industrial1:7 4:8 74:21 94:2 95:8 139:1 172:5 243:10 industry26:22 74:7 136:6 139:4 177:6 231:11 236:8 240:7

241:14 243:16 infinite 137:19 influence 174:9 187:13 information 66:9 69:2,17 90:3 91:11 92:9,14 107:11 112:13 124:1 127:12 128:10 131:4 133:7 134:11 154:16 172:2 174:7 187:22 201:17 206:6 207:17 208:18 209:5 220:17 221:9 222:19,20 223:8 228:11 240:18 274:7 informs 69:18 inherently61:14 63:15 initial230:6 initially 160:18 161:2 209:2 210:8 in-person 9:20 input 36:7,8 41:17 60:8,9 63:2,7 66:17 77:1,6 78:1 82:8,20 83:19,20 86:7 87:4,16 115:14 182:5 263:2 265:2 inputs 62:22 182:21 inquiring 205:20 insert152:13 inserting78:1

instant214:14 instead 5:16 16:15 41:13 61:20 69:15 78:2,13 83:8 86:5 87:4 99:6 110:11 115:13 152:13 164:4 184:3 272:5 instinctively96:22 Institute4:19 41:11 42:11 134:8 215:16 integrate137:4 integrated 171:5,8,12,14,18 235:18 intelligent59:14 intend 6:21 intended 14:6 26:3 28:2 260:14 intends 261:22 intent19:15 26:4 32:4 59:12,20 196:10,12,16 244:21 interaction 142:20 interest 31:5 282:11 interested9:4 21:2 54:11 200:1 218:8 interesting38:16 interim242:9 internal245:15 interpolate143:14 interpolation

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 26

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 174:17 introduce 110:1 introduction 266:19 introductions 4:12 introductory 32:21 invested 239:10 Investor-owned 5:7 invitation 56:4 involved 115:5 132:21 134:20 141:7 176:11 194:19 211:14 230:15 237:5 265:7 267:12 involves 264:1 IOUs 26:20 101:14 271:20 IRS 201:15 isn't30:19 39:12 100:2 167:9 178:4 184:4 219:14,15 223:17 235:15 ISO 175:12 isolated 169:8 isolating 170:7,15 issue 7:1 12:4,8 27:6,14 40:12,14 99:6 134:18 142:21 144:7 147:4 166:1,15 222:8 234:8 251:9 260:16 268:21 issued 245:8 issues 58:1 87:5 91:17 94:14 110:10 134:17 135:11 140:18 144:5 205:13 246:21 268:3,20 item17:17 271:2 items 7:13 8:22 9:15 10:15 105:14 168:12 225:14 278:18 279:6 it's 5:15 11:2 13:2 14:7,17,19,22 16:5 23:21 24:19 26:2,3 29:10 32:13 33:9,13 35:20,22 36:4 39:12,14,17 42:9,10 43:8,17 45:6,12,22 47:5,10,13 48:18 51:8,19 52:18 53:1,15 55:20 59:4 61:3 62:7,11,17 63:8 66:19 67:3 70:13,16 73:3,10,16 75:9 77:12,18 78:15 79:5,15,16,17 81:5 83:4,15 84:7,19 85:16 86:8,16,20 88:9 93:4,10 96:2 98:20 101:3 103:4 107:13 108:17 110:7,17 112:13,15 114:21 115:3 119:1,4 120:7 121:12 122:7 124:21 126:7 127:20 128:4 134:12,18,21

137:4,8 140:10 143:2 144:2 145:16 146:12,19 150:21 153:22 154:1,3 155:16 156:20,22 157:1 159:14,22 160:3 161:21 163:12 166:8,17 167:22 168:1 173:16 174:10,14 177:15,17 178:1,6,8,12 182:7,8,17 183:14 185:12,16 187:14 189:19 190:2,15,16,21 195:4,13,16 196:12,14,15 198:7,11,13 199:21 200:15 202:11 203:15,16 204:20 209:8 210:4 211:5 213:17 215:11,15,20 217:9 220:15 221:19,20 222:14 226:13 227:8 228:22 229:4,20 230:1,20 232:15,18,22 233:7 235:17,20 238:7,9,21 240:3,5,6 241:5 245:18 246:4 248:22 249:17 251:9 254:6 256:13,18 259:18 260:13 261:19,20

262:17 263:16 264:13 265:6 272:7 273:13,14,15 274:4,15 277:15 ITT 5:1 28:18 88:4 185:3 I've 35:7 44:17 56:13 97:9,17,19 111:2 123:9 156:12 172:10 175:3 205:13 261:3 264:3 268:4 271:4 279:10 J Jack 201:3 Jeremiah 3:7 250:7 273:20 274:1,5 277:17,19 JO 281:3,17 Joanna 3:6 5:12 19:19,20 23:12 188:2,3 194:8,9 277:7 job 97:14 267:21 jobs 177:21 join 6:16 8:1 joined 107:8 joining 6:12 201:3,6 jump 181:22 210:14 239:2 June 252:18 June-July245:6

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 27

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 K key116:6 119:12 218:18 kicking 60:17 156:15 kidding 53:10 111:14 kilowatt69:7 71:13 73:12,13 202:9 kinds 13:8 31:7 130:11 181:21 197:9 259:2 king 177:1 Kohl2:18 5:17 94:3 246:15,18 kumbaya178:12 L label89:20 90:3 91:16 94:18,20 95:1,9,19,21 96:2 98:5,6 154:10 187:9 labeled 95:20 180:16 labeling 89:14 90:13 93:17 94:4,10,11,13 95:12 185:18 186:18 187:14 labels 93:20 94:2 labor19:8 239:4 Laboratory

5:22 6:3 lack 57:4,5 65:6 161:4 laid 57:21 land 199:20 landed 224:12 language 14:9 15:1 19:7 31:20 large37:10 52:15 57:16 74:12 107:13 138:6 143:2 224:2 238:21 263:1 largely256:8 larger36:7 58:1,19 59:5,10,12,13,18 last11:19 12:22 31:12 33:7,18 41:12 57:9 62:13 107:5 110:19 112:17 121:1 128:18 130:22 147:9 188:21 199:15 201:11 208:2 210:18 260:12 263:5,21 274:21 275:14 276:8 278:2 279:16 later18:10 30:18,21 41:8 112:6 131:2 133:16,18 142:7 170:20 208:19 255:22 Laughter11:14 53:6 120:13,17,20 151:5 172:13 192:18 224:14 233:10 242:13 269:18 277:1 launched 107:4 Laura3:4 6:6 106:20,22

Lawrence 6:2 laws 83:14 84:6 layer263:10 LCC 211:15 212:5 lead 10:11 learn 215:4 223:10 least14:5 18:4 47:8 49:13 76:9 97:9 111:9 122:1 166:20 167:9 183:14 192:20 210:1 215:12 231:2 243:17 265:9 271:22 leave15:20 23:3 51:14 111:8,9,20,21 113:3 200:4 leaving 200:8 left-hand 36:4 legal19:8 lends 253:1 length 19:8 201:12 less 37:17 62:15 63:16 96:11,12 106:12 159:19 162:14,15 177:17 196:1 200:14 208:2 231:18 254:21 let's 4:3,12 16:14,20 31:15 37:9 43:12 46:13 56:3,4 57:11,17 77:11 78:15 93:1 110:17 123:12 133:15 143:16 150:1 161:17 162:3 183:22

201:2 222:13 232:17 255:1 letting181:6 level34:7 36:1 54:13 74:1 93:5,6,10 100:15 108:6 115:8,12 117:13 118:15 119:10,13 123:8 124:13,16 125:7 126:18,20 139:16 143:20 157:13 176:22 188:14 190:11 191:4 211:11 222:10 223:3 241:2 245:1 252:5 leveled237:22 levels 69:7 116:11,16,22 117:17,18 118:4,19,21 119:5 122:2,3 125:13,22 199:13 211:11 256:21 257:1 leverage174:7 life 169:18 196:18 209:14 216:21 237:2 lifespan 217:13 light36:10 141:16 255:22 lighting 189:18 likely12:16 125:14,20 217:10 limit 131:13 173:4

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 28

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 194:12 231:3 limitations 25:13 231:2 limited28:2 131:15 184:6 194:11 273:10 Lin 2:4 4:18 54:22 67:6,7,9,14,17,2 0 139:14,15 164:2,3 197:11,12 225:15,16 226:11,19 227:3,14,19 Linda 1:18 282:3,18 line 6:14 72:2 111:4 179:13 183:6 184:1 254:1 linearly179:13 lines 25:17 239:7 277:21 liquid 24:6 liquids 20:5 list14:1 23:8,11 31:7 81:6,8,11 84:21 87:6,14 97:9 184:13,17 260:15 263:4 268:5 listed 10:15 206:4 listen 201:8 220:18 listening 111:4 listing 100:13 lists 13:6 literally224:18 literature 242:11,20 little 11:7 15:4 17:7 24:9 31:16 33:10,19,21 36:20 40:12,14 45:3,18 49:11 54:19 58:11 63:8,11 67:8 79:20 80:6 82:11 86:19 92:19,21 94:9 101:8 115:8 132:21 135:4,6,15 138:11,15 159:14 166:16 187:17 192:6,17 202:17 203:20 207:4 211:6 212:10 217:21 218:2 219:12 228:4 229:8 230:2 234:9 237:22 249:21,22 250:8 254:18 255:12 258:8 260:7 261:10 264:6,12 267:7 275:5 277:11 live 207:10 load 36:5,9,10,12,16 40:21 43:7,10 44:21 45:5,16 46:10 48:17 52:16,18,20 53:1 56:10 66:17,18 70:9,10 72:13 77:1,4,6,7 79:14 80:3,5,10 82:22 83:13 84:14,19 86:3 95:15 98:22 99:6,17 101:5,7 106:7 116:4 117:12

118:1,9,10,14 119:16,19 120:4,5 135:17,18,21 136:7,18 137:6,16 138:1,11,18,19 139:2,8,10,19 140:4,15,20 141:1,3,15,20 142:2 143:9,13,15 144:16 145:3,10 146:9 147:1,22 148:1,2,6,7,8,16, 17 149:17,20 150:7,9,14 154:1 157:21 158:10,11,13,16, 22 159:16,22 160:15,21 161:4,5 162:14 165:13,17 166:16 167:1 172:4,9,11,19,21 ,22 173:4,17,19 174:4 178:22 180:4 183:10,16,18,22 184:2,6,7,18 195:1 203:14 227:8 235:3,4,8,10,14 237:22 loading 52:19 67:1 79:22 83:22 84:6 142:11 143:2,8 145:7 148:11,13 150:20 151:22 152:8 163:11 167:14 168:22 170:4 180:22 203:16 loadings 79:1

loads 105:5 116:5 117:3 140:8,9 161:5 173:11 lobe 13:7 20:14 28:22 location 86:13 160:13 locked 184:20 logic 179:21 logical44:1 62:15 logistical228:20 229:22 251:9 long 13:19 14:1 34:12 46:19 88:2 112:3 165:21 170:6 longer62:20 150:7 177:1 252:9 258:13 long-term

202:20 loop 179:6 180:9 loss 79:20 81:3,4 84:2 101:16 losses 79:12,13,21 87:10 141:19 142:1,2,8,19,21 144:12 147:7 149:18 151:9 157:17 lost177:21 lot6:18 10:9 13:3,4,21 17:2 19:5 20:2,18 25:21 27:4 38:17 39:19 48:20 50:15 52:17 57:3,9 68:19 74:11 75:19 76:4

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 29

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 79:6 88:6 90:17 93:12 98:17 99:21 100:1 101:10 103:18 107:6,10 132:20 138:12 147:16 148:2,11 150:1,15 154:22 160:9 168:14 176:10,20 177:7 198:2 200:3,11 209:13,21 216:11 222:15 225:8 230:8,9,15 234:1,2,19,22 235:2,11 236:21 237:4 238:5,6 243:17 244:3 258:6 259:11,14 267:21 270:10 278:3,19 lots 31:3 Louis 2:12 5:5 19:3,9,10 42:3 44:9,10 65:13,14 68:21 80:22 89:8 104:19,20 107:1 124:15,17 137:1 138:3 149:4 153:13 154:19 159:12 160:18 168:6,7,21 173:22 174:1 191:9,10 195:20 204:8 208:21 216:18 219:15 220:6,16 228:1,2 269:12 low 128:3 153:18 155:13 189:3 lower36:17,18 38:4,6 50:9 58:2 63:14,15 78:19 79:2 119:4 122:6 155:17 162:14 224:3 Lucas 2:17 5:18 8:8,15,18,19 14:3,4 17:4 24:7 27:20 31:8 32:18 33:17 40:2 49:10 52:2 54:7 55:7 81:22 89:11 90:22 94:3,7 101:21 102:19 123:12 127:4 134:14 140:16 166:13 186:11 189:14 190:14 192:7 198:19 199:7 207:19 210:14 222:8 230:2,4 234:5 236:19 241:15 244:6,7 245:5 261:14 263:18 274:3 275:12 277:21 lucky175:11 lumens 189:18 lunch 111:16 112:11,12 200:3,7,9,21 201:9 205:20 248:7 M magnet 147:11 151:15 magnitude234:19 238:7 main 123:15 mainly64:9 140:12 major13:16 31:19 248:12

majority132:22 177:18 management 179:18,20 managers 271:5 managing176:18 mandated195:4 manufacture 74:12 manufactured 65:3 manufacturer 10:8 42:12 78:11 95:16 103:11 106:2,16,19 107:13,20 189:5,11 239:9 243:10 255:4 manufacturers 11:9,18 88:8 97:12 107:7,8 126:17 133:22 134:4 137:17 144:7,14,15,18 145:5 154:12 171:17 177:5 192:3,9 194:6 199:9,20 202:3 205:4 206:1 210:15,16,19 214:4,5 218:15 219:12 238:20 239:8 240:8 257:4 manufacturer's 158:8 manufactures 193:16 manufacturing 139:1 202:22 213:8 239:22 240:5,18,22 241:4,6 March 1:11 4:9 8:4,7 10:6 228:11 258:1 276:7 280:3 margins 224:3 mark 2:7 4:20 25:15,16 54:7 154:8 158:1 181:22 191:18,19 194:15,16 199:9 220:11 224:13 253:7,21,22 254:5 255:7 266:11 market20:17 43:17 61:21 62:3,7,9 66:7 97:21 98:1 108:12 117:7 127:9 131:5,7,9,10,12, 15 167:15,21 176:12 187:1 192:13 195:2 202:13,16 207:5 216:15,16 226:8 marketplace47:14 88:20 108:15 122:19 194:13 markets 194:18 195:4 Mark's 279:2 markup 239:9 MARY 281:3,17 masked255:3 match 55:6 173:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 30

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 179:5,7 182:15 material33:2 204:5 materials 164:7 239:4 matter11:20 132:1 135:7 146:19 162:15 168:9,12,22 169:4,14 170:4,5 171:6 174:18 272:9 matters 226:14 matures 202:17 Mauer3:6 5:12 19:20 188:3,22 max 67:10,13 145:7 146:9 maximize 156:2 maximum 68:4,7,12,15,17 121:21 122:6,7,9,10 165:1 may 9:11 21:20 33:12 38:11 43:4 44:5 45:15 53:17 54:18 61:16 70:15 74:19 89:22 91:10 97:1 101:3,9,11 112:17 116:4 125:17 129:13 132:19 133:2 135:19,20 136:1 146:14 149:13,14 150:9 165:16 166:20 171:4 176:3 177:16 189:5 202:13 207:4 216:3,12 221:17 229:17 239:18 252:18,22 maybe7:18 9:21 11:10 16:9 22:14 27:15 29:7 30:15 32:18 34:2,5 41:7 43:13 45:16 48:11 54:6,7 55:1 56:9 59:11 67:7,9 68:3 69:11,17 72:12 76:5,15 90:7 91:19 97:9 99:5,11 100:8 111:16 112:16 114:11 115:4 131:20,21 135:16,21 138:4,9,15 139:15 142:15,18 149:5,7 154:6 156:16,17 157:15,17,20,22 162:7 164:3,20 167:21 168:17 176:4 188:5 193:22 196:11 197:12 200:8 206:18 217:10,20,21 228:3,22 230:1 231:17,22 232:8,9 234:3,6 236:16 241:16 250:16,22 260:18,19 261:8 263:8,12 267:9 271:15,17 272:8 mean 9:2 13:6 17:7,10 18:13,18 20:7 23:3,8,11 24:3 25:9 26:2 28:21

29:10,13,22 31:10 37:12 38:8 45:2 46:6 50:19 51:6 52:3 59:14 66:21 68:14 69:6,16 70:18 85:22 86:4 90:17 92:6 93:10 96:7,13 97:4 98:4 100:22 101:4,8 102:20 104:2 122:22 124:21 126:5 127:5 130:7 132:6 134:19 137:4 140:9,17,18 141:4 147:20 154:13,16,21 162:15 163:1,12 165:20 166:17 168:3 169:17 172:21 173:7 178:12 183:2 186:14 188:5 190:17 191:20 192:15,22 195:11 196:5 198:21 202:19 206:21 210:13,15 211:6 212:2 217:2,3 218:11,13 219:8 230:7,18 236:16,21 242:10 244:13,18 248:19 249:12,13 255:3 259:4 260:18 261:3,7 262:10,20 267:1,17 275:18 means 95:14 114:6,11 150:18 171:2 200:5 221:13 meant83:10 114:1,4,7 269:21 measurable 128:14 measure 75:20 76:16 100:21 193:3 measured 77:16 115:17 measurement 48:22 49:4,14 167:6 measuring 103:13 182:14 mechanism 239:17 meet9:19 51:12 59:19 116:13,14 177:20 188:13 190:10 193:17 201:11 250:3,20 meeting 4:11 8:3 9:12,17 10:5,19 11:19 12:18,19 14:1 16:21 17:10,20 33:7,18 130:22 131:2 135:1 157:16 162:22 163:8,18 164:8 200:12,13,20 201:8,10,15 205:22 206:17,18 208:2 244:21 250:1,18 252:12 253:1 254:16,21 255:15,19 256:20 261:3,19

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 31

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 262:11,13 263:8 264:11 275:15 276:4,14 277:13 279:3 280:7 meetings 9:20 131:19 201:6 213:2 245:5 264:7 273:8 275:14 278:4 meets 126:7 Meg2:16 6:14,15 269:2 270:12 MEI 35:17 42:5 43:18 57:6 60:6,14 61:14 63:9 65:21 66:1,14 69:3,22 75:5 76:2 85:21,22 86:1,2,4,5 87:15 88:22 89:3 90:9 110:8 112:20 115:5,18 116:9,11,19,20 117:10,18,20,21 118:4,6,19,21 119:2,3 121:2 122:2,10 125:13 127:20 128:19 134:12 153:8,17 159:7,9 256:22 257:14 member272:16 273:12,22 members 113:15 202:22 224:8 232:21 234:4,7 264:19 267:9 271:3,7 272:12,16 member's 272:20 273:1 membership 25:20 136:9 261:17 mention 28:3 167:13 mentioned 19:22 89:8 152:4 163:6 204:1 230:16 249:7 mentioning 99:11 message 156:11 Metcalf 1:18 282:3,18 method 85:9 103:2 107:15 149:11 193:3 197:17,19 239:6 methodology 173:21 197:15 methods 157:18 183:9 metric 7:8 32:17 33:6,11 34:2,4,11,15,19, 21,22 35:1,12,19 36:22 37:1,3,14 38:5 43:2,15 46:18 51:11 52:16 53:2,22 54:10,12 55:11,13,19 58:14 59:1,8 61:15 64:21,22 65:1 69:17 72:8,16,20 73:3,14 75:1 76:13 78:6 83:17 85:20 91:5 92:14,16 94:17,19 96:9 108:4,14 109:20 110:5,7 115:5 121:18 122:17 123:20 124:7

128:13,17 129:15,21 130:2,6,15 135:8 150:12 157:3 163:14 168:13 173:3 175:12 187:8 189:19 193:9 196:21 199:3,17 200:10 241:20 252:9,11 256:2,4,7 263:6,22 265:18 278:20 metrics 11:7 63:17 64:20 65:5 71:15 74:16 87:14,20 93:7 96:3 108:8,18 110:11 275:11 microphone 86:15 132:17 188:19 205:2 microphones 4:15 111:3 mid250:10 middle8:5 139:3 mid-March 250:10 migration 177:10 mill51:18 millions 175:14,15 mind36:15 41:6 56:7,9 72:16 88:18 89:2 98:3 125:2 163:4 171:8,19 208:9 209:22 236:2 267:2,12 minds 48:10 mine31:5 65:16

minimal100:7 minimally61:7,13 62:3 77:12 79:19 92:16 116:2 126:6,16 128:14 minimizing 141:6 minimum94:16 109:4 115:11 117:13 121:20 125:15 126:6,7 128:2,3,6 152:14 155:2 169:3 198:7 minor 70:16 minute73:7,11,13 87:15,16 97:20 110:1 minutes 31:12 100:10 199:8 237:11 misheard38:14 misjudge150:16 mislead157:11 miss 11:2 13:18 150:21 missed279:10 missing218:19 250:16 misspoke38:11 mistake38:12 misunderstanding 49:12 257:10 MITCHELL 281:3,17 mitigate 241:3 mode176:6 207:15

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 32

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 model 240:7 241:13 models 210:22 211:2 modified 64:9 modify66:21 modular69:3 modulate178:19 moment111:6 204:16 271:1 279:9 money 101:10 216:8 month251:3 monthly 9:18 months 213:16,21 245:7 morning 4:5,6 5:11 7:8 53:14 201:13 256:6 motion 215:6 motor34:17,18 35:20 36:8,11,13 39:18 43:20 55:9 58:8 60:4,10 61:8 62:3,4 66:3,4,19 67:5 70:15,20 76:14 77:2,3,10,13,15 78:8,9,10,11,14 79:2,9,11,22 80:10,13,14,15,1 6,20 81:2 82:2,6,7,19 83:9,11,22 84:11 87:1,2,10 98:2,7 99:13,15 101:4 102:6 103:11,12,21 104:7,8,10 105:8 106:1 115:15,21,22 116:2,3 117:12,14,22 118:12,14 119:16 120:4 124:19 125:12,13 126:4,6,7,11,13 129:6 139:10,18,21 140:22 141:4,16,18,19,2 2 142:19,20,21 143:7,13 144:14 145:3,6,7,10,13 147:1,7,10,11,12 149:17,18 150:4,6,9,12,19, 20 151:8,15,22 152:15 153:19 154:3,6,22 155:6 156:19 157:9,17 159:9 171:6,21 174:16 176:15 177:4 179:17 182:7 185:21 186:2 188:7,8,12 189:5,11 193:10,16 195:12 196:20 205:6 223:16,18 224:1,18,22 225:1,8 226:22 227:4,6,11,13,15 ,17 235:6 265:19 motor-drive 179:21 motors 43:20 47:7 52:14,17 53:1 63:2 66:9 79:16 80:2,8 95:13,22 98:20 99:16 106:15 107:19 127:1,7

129:14,16 130:2 131:21 133:18 142:9,10 144:10 146:20 147:9 148:5,10,14 168:13 170:3 174:7 177:1 188:15 196:3 202:5 213:9 225:4 226:12,16 238:5 mounted22:12 171:21 move32:16,22 38:19 58:20 76:1 79:22 82:2 89:12 133:16 147:3 151:1,3,10 186:7 251:18 moved 13:3 movement 226:17,18,19 moves 128:1 moving23:6 36:12 160:16 199:14 MSP239:12 MSPs 259:11 multi-metrics 109:13 multiple108:8,18 110:11 135:18 143:13 155:22 156:3 161:7 277:13 multiply83:12 84:13 municipal74:21 172:4 muster97:13 myriad 23:14

myself 274:15 N nameplate 80:12,13,16 95:15,16 104:15 105:22 118:11 126:11 205:5 narrow22:14 27:19 national5:22 6:3 163:21 167:1,2,7 207:9 209:7,9,14 211:16 nationally207:7 natural131:9 nature174:15 nauseam190:18 Navigant5:20 6:1 205:3 225:21 236:12 239:21 267:16 necessarily

31:3 45:21 62:5 63:10 74:20 91:10 130:12 157:2 187:18 193:1 197:16 202:19 229:13 234:18 235:3 267:5 NEEA5:5 19:10 44:11 65:15 104:21 124:18 168:7 174:1 191:10 228:2 negative59:21 62:8 85:2 negotiate220:20 negotiated1:8 4:8

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 33

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 246:19 247:3 252:1 negotiation 166:21 199:10 206:19 222:11 266:5,8 278:10,12 negotiations 13:13 neither282:8 NEMA6:5 78:16 253:12 257:21 Netherland199:11 neutral41:18 news 265:1 NGOs 97:3 nice 4:5 63:8 135:22 150:11 153:16 274:10,18 niche 20:17 173:18 Nidec6:4 102:1 139:7 143:22 night12:22 201:11 nitty-gritty

10:18 267:6 nobody165:22 nodding 120:15 nomenclature 21:13 nominal60:4,5 77:7 99:18 119:19 non 271:6 none 241:10 non-electric64:3,6 73:10 129:13 131:2 non-member 272:17 non-members 272:13 273:21 non-overloading 146:1 non-regulatory 198:12 non-water22:8 non-working 271:3 noon 200:15,16 Nope 127:14 NOPR 245:8 246:5,11 247:12 265:16 nor170:9 282:9 normal 44:14,22 45:16 46:8 137:7 160:19,22 168:11 244:14 normalize37:6 67:11 normalized 46:5 normalizes 61:2 normalizing62:17 normally 20:12,16 244:15 Northwest5:14,21 267:17 notation 270:16 notch 127:16 notches 235:10 note36:20 88:1 100:9 143:16 148:22 149:7 165:4 202:12 224:6,7 noted 269:3

notes 69:22 114:19 281:6 nothing 7:18 12:12 202:22 247:21 notice245:16 247:10 250:17 266:2 noticing 120:11 notifications 274:4 notify273:19 NPSH48:20 nuanced 19:6 nuances 34:1 numerator62:21 64:14 65:6,8 76:22 82:8 86:2 numerators 76:22 O object 158:16 objectively

128:14 objects 273:18 obligated 247:10 observation 215:22 obtain 92:16 206:1 233:2 260:4 269:6 obtained 134:21 obtaining 141:7 obvious 58:21 obviously31:19 50:9 80:9 95:20 102:21 134:10 191:4,6 194:18 222:3 230:8 247:21 254:7,14

255:14 263:1,22 occurred171:3 o'clock 110:17 111:22 112:7 113:5 200:5,16 260:13 offer 223:21 offered 220:20 269:1 official 231:18 offshore 98:17 175:13 177:2,5,16,18,21 off-the-cuff 223:16 of-the-envelope 234:17 oh 38:7,10 41:15 47:18 81:11 83:9 86:14,17 114:3,18,19 119:21 124:10 127:20 133:5 147:20 148:15 162:1 163:5 164:6 179:4 183:11 209:20 233:7 239:20 244:22 245:10 261:2 275:10,21 277:20 OH3 26:10 okay4:3 9:22 11:4 12:6,9,13 14:21 15:6,18 18:11,22 21:14 23:21 29:9 32:3,7,15,16 33:14,16 38:7,10 40:6,8 42:19 44:9 46:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 34

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 47:3,4 48:3,12 49:1 50:18 54:17 55:22 56:5,12 57:1,13,19 64:7 67:21 73:1,11,14,18 75:17,22 76:1,19 78:9 81:13,14,19,21 82:1 88:12 98:2,8,20 100:4 102:15,16 111:2,11 112:22 113:6,7,17,20 114:3,13,14,15,2 1 115:6 121:4,16,19 122:8,10,12,15 129:10 136:16,21 139:13 141:13 145:19 146:7 148:20 149:6 151:3 153:13 157:12 158:7 159:11 160:4,17 163:5 165:7 169:10 170:11 175:10,13,18 176:4 177:19 178:5 180:15 181:10,17 183:8 184:21,22 186:20 188:1 189:15 200:15 202:1,21 203:9 204:8 205:16 207:19 209:20 212:20 213:1 215:1 218:9 219:7,8,10 220:1 221:17 226:20 227:20 228:1 231:21 237:17 243:4 249:5 251:18 253:20 255:13 257:13,19 258:2,4 259:7 260:11 261:3,19,20 264:22 267:3 268:1,3,14 270:14,21 272:6 273:18 275:2 276:1 277:20 278:1 279:12 One/twenty-fifth 204:11,12 one-fourth 219:19 one-ish 111:19 one-quarter 217:4,8 219:22 220:2,3 ones 20:6 24:21,22 50:11 74:12 113:13 195:10 212:8 228:21 243:22 275:3,4,8 ongoing 7:9 onto 141:13 170:14 195:18 oops 114:19 open 15:20 17:5 23:3,7 35:8 79:10 190:16 199:11 247:19 269:11 273:7,13 operate52:6 153:19 154:1 160:10 214:17 operating 42:8,10,11 89:9 150:19 160:5,8 182:7 203:22 213:12 218:17 219:13

operation 45:22 52:5 150:15 196:22 197:8 205:15 207:15 215:17,21 opinion 13:1 18:19 214:9 opportunities 225:12 228:18 opportunity11:3 70:19 105:17 109:5 151:14 203:19 235:13 253:5 opposed 15:2 170:1 opposite 107:10 option 65:17 67:10 80:20 81:2 98:4 104:17 109:2 233:16 235:5,16 238:2 optional107:9 options 57:22 60:15,16 63:18 73:9 104:16 171:7 232:3,7,10 238:9 262:17 277:14 order22:5 54:4,6 57:2 68:16 141:15 166:11 183:19 234:19 252:7 ordering236:2 organizations 88:14 original218:1 others 18:20 43:13 98:1 99:5 119:21 170:8 171:20 268:4,6 277:7 279:5 otherwise 9:2 33:9 241:3 ought27:1 ours 16:15 ourselves 175:7 199:16 outcome 175:6 231:11 234:11 241:7 249:6,17 outlined 101:16 output62:16,18 63:7 68:4,5,7 72:9,13 77:9 86:6,8,9,22 122:18 226:14 227:7 245:2 outset6:21 outside 11:1 19:16 26:16 198:6,14 overall 49:14,15,20,21 50:11 99:7,11 156:19 157:1 228:7 overarching 128:17 overestimate 150:18 overload146:21 overloading160:3 overseas 239:19 over-speeding 160:2 overstated 171:4

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 35

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 overwhelms 162:16 P p.m200:22 280:6 P1 36:6 76:21 P-1 60:3 63:1 Pacific5:21 267:17 package 99:7 100:8 packaging 98:7,16 packet7:3 page 7:10 39:6 64:14 180:8 paired 35:21 77:13 78:12,15 paper16:13 30:12 parabolic 179:14 183:7 parameters 8:13 258:20 270:10 278:16 pardon 88:3 113:10 213:16 224:7 pared 35:20 parse258:9 partial140:8 152:8 partially133:8 PARTICIPANT 6:14 12:18 participate254:8 particular77:4 104:12 175:10 193:14 194:14 230:19 231:3 234:8,13 242:20 262:15,21 particularly54:11 56:6 72:19 216:2 278:12 279:15 parties 282:9 partners 197:19 party176:13 253:13 254:9 pass 49:20 97:13 106:5 119:2,8 154:20 155:2 269:5 past190:13 198:16 path 18:8 25:18 64:19 97:21 134:10,13 175:2 184:16 pathway15:11 32:11 95:3 patient47:22 pattern 248:8 Patterson 4:21 15:6 20:4 29:5 100:18 206:8 220:13 236:7 Paul2:4 4:18 54:6,21,22 67:6 139:14 149:5,6 164:2 197:11 225:15 226:6 payback 202:12,20 222:4 237:3 peaking 50:5,8 pedal178:20,21 penalize 214:5 penalizing 214:3 people 30:18 39:17 54:5 59:14 71:3 88:10,19 89:3,7 90:16 108:11 109:14 159:15 164:18 176:5 220:8 222:15 232:10,12,17 254:8 per33:22 35:7 36:18 37:6 38:4,8 43:20 58:13 59:8,13,16,18 63:14 67:19 71:12,13 72:19 73:7,11,12,13 75:6 76:13 77:22 78:18 83:17 86:20 87:15,16 106:2 115:9,19 116:14 117:19 118:7,21 119:3 121:11,17 122:11,14 125:11 126:1 128:19 135:20 141:21 142:3 147:17 153:8 154:20 155:2 156:15 162:17 172:22 189:18 194:20 195:1 202:9 256:22 percent 36:17 37:10 40:20 42:7,9 43:7,10 44:17,18 45:2,3,6 47:8 48:8 63:12 77:9,12,14 78:13,16,17 97:22 98:1,15 106:6 108:12 117:4,5,6,7,11,1

2 118:12 119:1 131:1,3 138:8,12 144:16 145:2,3,9,11,18 147:1,13,15,21 150:7 158:20,21,22 159:3,13,21 160:3,21 161:18,20 162:3 166:2,10 167:13 168:1 175:9,17 215:12 246:21 percentage46:10 117:4 118:1 131:12 180:5 218:19 percentages 117:11 perfect50:13 157:8 perfectly235:21 270:11 perform105:4 166:7 225:8 244:13 performance 35:3 43:15,16 44:2 51:6 58:6 61:2,10,17,22 62:6,19 66:15 67:11 71:2 76:14,16 85:3,8,11 89:15 128:15 169:6 170:3,9 173:10 179:11,13,14 183:3,6,15 259:10 performed 141:16 240:1

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 36

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 performing85:4,5 perhaps 12:1 22:13 105:8 126:13 134:15 138:1 160:19 191:6 206:17 217:6 period 202:20 237:3 257:11 periodically62:10 periods 146:21 242:9 peristaltic13:7 23:4,6 26:15 28:3 permanent147:11 151:15 person 32:8,10 215:7 251:6 277:9 personal271:12 personally9:13 15:2 101:17 264:14 perspective44:1 137:15 154:10 158:9 180:19 205:9 221:10 pertain 270:10 Petrillo 6:6 Petrillo-Groh 3:4 6:6 106:21,22 PG&E 5:7 phase 32:22 147:11 phases 30:20 phone 5:16 251:6 273:9 phonograph 225:2

phonographs 225:3 physical183:10 186:22 pick 48:8 92:8 94:19 109:7 148:2 153:18 174:9 244:17 262:18 picking 23:11 77:11 138:5 picture25:12 98:3 199:19 piece29:2 90:9 157:2 187:21 188:21 pieced 171:9 pieces 16:18 31:11 69:2,8 128:20 171:9 176:20 218:19 plan 54:15 113:5,17 173:8 211:6 239:4 252:6 279:5 plane 111:10 113:3,19 planned 212:8 planning 211:16 253:11,12 258:16 plans 112:5 264:13 plants 134:4 plate 78:14 171:21 play240:10 player176:3 pleasant5:15 279:18

please 4:3,15 5:19 32:18 40:7 41:16 47:21 50:1 52:2 110:20 111:1 115:2 149:6 188:18 194:15 200:18 206:7 243:11 pleased 6:18 pleasure 5:10 plenty269:5 plug 77:14 82:7 113:4 116:22 118:12 plumber216:3,5 plumbing 218:20 plus 34:17,18 36:8,11 43:20 58:8 64:22 65:1 71:17 77:9 78:8,9 79:16 80:2,3 82:7 84:11 87:2 138:10 185:20 186:1,2 188:7,8 PM223:16,19 225:7 227:10,13 PNNL 135:14 podium 33:15 point10:2,10,21 14:8 30:16 32:15 40:15 43:6,7,11 45:17 47:9 48:18 49:18 50:4,8 52:1,14,19 62:9 68:7 71:6 76:5 79:3 88:2 93:3 94:15 98:11 106:14 109:12 111:13

112:4,12,15 123:15,17 125:3 131:1 133:10 134:15 139:19 140:4,21 141:1 144:10,18 148:12 150:19 153:1 154:19 158:10,13 159:1 166:22 168:21 170:14,15 172:8 174:3 175:19 179:3 180:20,21 181:1 197:10 204:7 208:8,10,11,17 210:21 213:12 216:13 222:13,21 233:3 249:4 250:18 262:22 265:15 269:16 270:5 points 33:12 36:5,9,10,12,16 40:21 45:6 46:10 49:2,17 51:9 54:2 56:11 66:17,18 67:1 72:13 77:1,4,6 79:14 80:5,10 82:22 83:22 84:7 86:3 97:21 117:12 118:9,10,14 119:7 130:21 135:17,19,21 136:7,19 137:6,16 138:11,18 139:8,10 140:20 142:4 143:8,14,15 153:7 157:21

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 37

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 158:6,11,16 160:16,21 161:4 162:14 167:1 168:18,22 172:22 174:4 178:22 180:4,18,22 183:10 230:11 248:13 poll231:18 232:1,9,20 233:11 250:8 polls 231:20 pool27:6,7 196:13 portion 131:7 167:15,21 220:5 pose 232:14 poses 27:4 position 192:12 201:18 positive 28:20,22 29:11 possibility 71:18 72:2 103:16 108:7 223:1 249:8 possible 13:4 14:16 21:4 42:4 71:13,14 74:1,8,16 89:13 90:12 112:3 114:10 127:2 164:8 172:18 232:7 235:6 247:11 249:6,12 254:15 262:12 274:13 279:7 possibly 16:10 26:5 80:19 155:17 post272:4

posted 41:13 272:3 potable 204:3 potential33:11 103:19 230:10 234:17 235:2,15 237:20 246:7 261:8 potentially35:21 38:20 61:15 70:19 95:4 110:5 114:16,18 116:8,20 134:18,19 141:5 187:20 199:5 212:12 237:6 Potts 2:10 5:3 127:16,17 158:19 233:14 power5:14 36:7,8,15,16,17 58:22 60:8,9,19,20 61:6,20 62:16,17,22 63:2,3,7 66:17,22 67:1,2 72:9,13 77:1,6,15 78:1,4 82:8,20 83:19,20 86:7,10,22 87:4 105:5 115:14,15,17 117:15 118:2,9,13 121:18 154:14 162:16 184:12 Powers 2:3 4:16 15:22 17:22 18:19 19:1 22:18,21 28:12,14 30:6 39:5,9,12,16,22

40:4,6,9 48:1 50:2,20 51:1,14,18 69:20,21 70:4,22 97:16,19 99:21 100:1,5 119:15,21 132:15,18 142:13 145:21 146:8,11,14 149:7,10 156:10 157:6 160:5 164:11,12,17,22 165:2 174:22 practical 92:21 141:2 173:16 231:1,7 241:19 242:3 262:9 precedent

241:5 precisely260:3 predict187:18 prediction 70:7 predisposition 112:2 preemption 278:6 preferable 91:18,21 138:16 preference271:12 prefers 74:7 preliminary 141:17 256:15 premium106:3 223:21 preparation 254:18 prepare258:8 prepared9:13 12:10 211:12 261:19 264:11

prescribed94:21 prescriptive196:6 present33:2 56:21 57:11,17,18 197:2 211:12 222:20 232:22 256:14 presentation 13:22 112:17,22 234:16 266:14 presented88:7 112:19 113:13 134:1 143:7 213:8 220:15 221:3 presenting205:17 pretty 7:17 25:12 72:17 88:9,21 98:21 148:9 161:10 190:8 203:4,8 210:20 230:20 242:11 252:19 255:4 256:7 275:14 279:8,13 prevent 231:2 previous 41:14 62:11 64:14 121:10,13 131:19 185:4 199:16 271:5 278:4 previously83:3 120:12 264:3 price 202:4,7,11,12,13 207:8,10 217:18,19 223:13,14

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 38

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 priced 225:6 principal100:13 principally 7:13 principle 18:14 31:10 principles 93:10 printed 274:19 prior234:16 251:22 264:4 priorities 258:22 prioritization 254:20 probably7:7 35:13 38:13,14 43:9 65:16 96:7 105:4 115:20 116:1 125:19,21 132:21 138:8 148:19 149:1 156:5 157:14 160:20 166:9 168:9,12,14 173:16,19 175:4 176:22 184:16 212:7 213:17,18 217:15,18 220:21 222:4,14 223:17 225:19 244:4 246:10 256:2 262:16 267:8 problem25:6 39:22 46:18 48:1 49:3 50:11 68:11 143:20 165:12 220:6 228:20 236:9 252:7 problems 25:13 100:20 210:9 229:22 procedure52:16 83:2 95:22 102:13 105:3 106:8,9,11 108:4,15 137:15 143:7 168:17 170:19 171:1 199:3,17 212:12 229:2 241:21 243:8 263:21 264:1,5 265:3,16,21 266:7,14,20,21 267:17 procedures 228:21 proceed232:10 proceeding9:15 197:5 233:17,18 281:4,6 282:4,5,6,8,10,1 1 proceedings 281:9 process 14:10 30:15 54:12 100:9 157:1 163:2 232:13 241:2 242:4 245:15,18 246:4 252:7 258:4,13 265:10 procuring69:11 produce 186:5 produced 95:16 223:20 producing 273:8 product43:17 50:3,7,17 52:18 55:15 91:6,9,12 95:8,10,11,12,18 ,20 103:3,5 126:10 129:12 130:8 151:20

152:1 165:20 171:8,12,14,18,2 0 175:10,11 188:5,16,20 189:19,20 197:20 220:19 225:6 235:18 239:7 242:16 253:6 278:17 production 223:15 productive 6:11,17 34:13 260:12 279:20 products 17:11 18:16 23:9,15 51:15 73:17 91:8 93:18 94:1,2,12 103:1 107:15,16 109:6,8 131:1 146:2,3 151:19 171:5 186:22 189:17 191:1,2 194:13 196:18 197:3 198:8 218:15 220:7 223:19 224:1,2 225:13 226:7,22 227:11 231:3 239:10 264:5 profile 49:15 138:1,19 165:13,17 profiles 48:16 161:6 166:16 173:5 program93:18 107:3,8 197:20 198:7 programmed 179:12,15 programs 191:13,14 198:2,10 199:2,21 progress 6:19 8:13 110:19 199:15 200:3 263:6 278:3,4,21 project 5:13 172:12 promise27:17 63:21 121:7 promised255:10 propane 131:8 proper231:13 properly153:20 231:4 proposal8:12 10:20 11:10 27:17 244:18 245:11 247:4 251:4 263:17 272:11 proposals 32:2 157:17 propose 133:15 proposed 37:2 59:22 60:20 101:18 129:14 192:21 246:22 247:10,15,16,18 proposing 66:14 protect 166:11 proven 90:10 provide 24:8 107:21 193:3 211:7 221:9 242:17 253:12 262:13 265:4,9 273:20 276:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 39

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 provided 33:5 68:2 272:12 275:5,7 provides 105:16 providing 209:5 210:15 253:11 provision 94:13 provisions 94:5 proxy269:1 270:8 pruning 21:17 public 247:19,20 256:14 273:8 publish 144:15 195:8 265:16 published 107:3 124:8 pump 13:4,10 16:3 19:22 20:5,12,13,14,15 21:4,18 23:6,20 24:1,13 26:10 27:7 29:7,21 30:2,5 34:16,17,18,20 35:1,5,6,11,15,2 0,22 36:2,7,8,9,11,13, 19 37:10,11 38:8,9 39:9,12,14,17 40:1 42:6,9,12 43:15,20 44:3,8 48:4,12,14 49:1,17 50:4,15 51:5 54:11,13 58:5,7,8,22 59:1,2,10,11,12, 18 60:1,6,7,9,12,21 61:2,3,4,7,11,13, 22 62:6,9,18,19,21 63:2,6 64:22 65:1,5,19,22 66:5,11,15 67:3,5,14 69:3,22 70:13,15,21 71:2,17 74:7 75:3 76:12,13,14,16 77:1,4,6,13,15,1 6,18,22 78:1,8,9,12,14,1 5 79:16 80:15,16 82:2,6,7,19 83:19 84:11,15 86:2,6,8,21 87:2,3,4 88:8,16,21,22 89:10 96:9,16 97:22 98:2,6,13,14 100:7 102:13 103:11,14,20 105:14 107:22 108:9,14 109:13,16,19 110:8,12,14 115:10,15,18 116:7,13,18 117:2,4,9,16,17 118:5,9,11,18,22 119:1,2,8,10 120:1,4,6 122:13 123:19 124:4 125:3,12,13 126:9,14 128:3,4,6,8,15 129:16,18,20 130:9 137:17 139:9,22 141:8,17 143:15 144:7,17 145:5,6,8,14,18 150:2 153:18 154:5,12,13,15,2

0 155:3,22 156:3,6,8,18,20 157:8,9,10 159:9,10 160:3,6,11 162:7 165:18 166:4 168:22 169:2,7,10 170:1,7,15 171:10,20 174:15 176:14,17 177:6 178:2 179:6,17,19,20 180:18,22 181:3 184:11 185:20 186:1 187:3,4,6,10 188:7,11,12 189:11 192:1,2 193:7,16,18 204:10 206:3 209:4 211:10,13,17,22 212:6 215:9 216:6 217:4,14 228:22 229:20 234:10 235:9 244:3 249:7 265:22 266:20,21 267:13 278:10 pump/motor/ control149:13 pumping20:1 pumps 13:3,4,7,8 14:1 15:17 18:15 20:8,15 21:20 22:7,8,12,14 26:5,6,12,15 27:7,22 28:2,3,5,8,22 29:1 30:1,16 31:3,4 34:20

40:15 43:9,14,19 44:3 47:6,7 48:20 51:11 52:5 58:20 59:9,15 61:17 62:1 63:14 68:2 75:4 79:16,17 80:1 107:18 108:13 126:22 127:6 129:15 132:5 138:21 149:13 154:3 156:1,2,3 160:8 161:7 163:9 173:1,9 182:15 188:10,14 189:1,3,4,6,10 190:6,7,8 191:22 194:4 196:2,13,15 207:11 209:2,6,10,15 210:6,16 211:1,8 213:13 214:17 218:19 225:11 227:2 228:10,12,18,21 229:12 232:3,4,6 236:10 237:7,15 238:6 258:17 261:12 pump's 62:16 86:9 120:8 Pumps 1:7 4:8 purchasing 90:19 purely83:15 84:7 114:22 230:6 purpose 59:12 91:15 92:3 169:9 198:22 purposes 28:9 39:15 44:6 72:17

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 40

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 91:9 123:18,22 143:10 231:1 pursing 232:18 pursue 9:14 212:11 238:3 push 198:13 233:1,5 252:10 pushing 233:12 puts 18:4,8 putting 19:15 84:11 99:7 152:15 157:10 170:2 190:19 194:21 Q quad 229:10 quadratic 127:21 qualification 30:18 qualify 51:2 99:16 quantifiable 215:17 quantify 187:18 quantities 223:20 224:2 quarter195:13 202:6 204:15 219:14,15 quarterly

9:17 queried 201:9 quest7:9 question 14:7 16:6 25:1 27:21,22 29:10 30:14 37:22 39:5 42:20 48:1 56:6 69:21 78:21 91:2,4 102:8 103:9,15 104:22 111:15 119:15 127:18 139:8 144:2 147:9 156:10 158:5,19 159:6 180:3,8 181:9,16 185:13 188:4 190:15,16 199:11 207:21 208:6 211:19 212:1 221:5 223:7 232:14 233:14,15 234:7,21 237:10 244:9,10 249:1 251:19 256:3 262:6 271:3 questions 34:10 39:3 56:14 57:3 89:11 92:2 97:17,19 129:1 135:3 200:10 242:8 243:14 251:16,21 265:8 queue 243:1 249:19 quick 27:21 71:9 127:18 129:12 154:8 158:14 246:3 268:8 quickly 72:7 147:6 180:7 184:4 240:10 244:15 260:5 quit225:3 quite 176:2 177:8 184:4 237:6 254:12 quorum111:12 R Radio 225:7

raise208:17 232:18 268:4 raised 268:21 range52:7 88:15 137:3,7 160:6,8 222:12 226:12 227:1,16 238:9 ranges 42:11 138:10 rank 236:1 ranking 163:9 rapidly199:14 rate67:10,13 68:13,15 74:18 77:9 149:11,13 171:15 rated75:5 85:13 rates 40:21 rather19:6 75:8,12 94:5 121:2 137:5 156:18 175:20 208:5 210:2 rating35:6 36:2,19 37:7 38:8 52:19 55:2,3 66:1 71:20 75:9,13 86:10 104:12 120:9 139:20 141:8,21 143:8 152:22 153:10,11,12 ratings 63:14 ratio 84:2 reach 246:20 reacts 179:19 ready17:6 230:22 258:9

real52:8 53:20 85:2 93:4 100:20,21 101:1,3 104:5 105:9,13 129:11 137:12 144:7 169:18 172:19 173:9,10 178:9 205:13 246:3 253:4,5 268:7 realistic166:19 realistically127:8 203:18 209:15 230:13 reality45:20 47:13 213:18 270:3 realize42:14 225:10 229:3,21 realized27:2 187:20 really6:18 12:12 14:7,20 25:7,13 26:6 27:3 39:12,17 47:10 48:15 51:2 52:9 54:14 56:15 60:22 61:3 70:13 71:5,6 72:7 76:5 86:4 91:22 92:4,11 93:6 97:2 110:7,13 122:7 123:14,16 127:7 128:6 135:7 137:3,9 139:19 150:7,18,20 153:19,21 154:5,8 159:16 165:16 166:16,18 167:3 173:12 180:7

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 41

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 182:7 183:1,12 190:2 191:5 193:6 199:19 203:15 210:4 217:9 226:14 229:9,15 245:17 248:20 254:3,6 256:16 257:5,17 263:6,20 265:2 266:21 269:14 271:12 277:10 278:3 279:19 rearranged 86:21 reason 30:9 42:7,21 47:5 64:18 68:19 139:3 161:3 166:2,10 167:13 175:8 230:19 235:18 240:17 248:16 270:3 274:6 reasonable137:20 172:7 173:19 203:8 217:7 271:14 reasons 37:5,6 74:11 176:22 rebate197:20 recall131:19 204:16 252:22 receive247:20 received132:4 210:18 278:22 recently 25:7 55:19 recess 110:22 recessed200:21 recirc 213:13,19,21 recircs 214:2

recirculation 203:12,21 214:17 218:20 recirculator

216:3 recognize19:9 43:8,14 59:15 85:16 104:9 138:17 141:14 142:9 recognizing76:10 242:4 recollection 246:14 247:5 recommend9:9 72:12 87:18 208:13 recommendation 9:7 16:1 246:5,10 249:22 recommending 16:4 reconvene111:21 200:21 record19:5 120:16 231:10 282:8 recorded282:5 recordings 281:7 recoup 239:10 recreation 201:11 red13:3 28:19 119:11 redesign 243:19 redo 211:8 reduce149:2 203:19 224:4 reduced 83:14,21,22 184:11,12 196:22 197:7 203:15 205:15 218:2 241:2 282:6 reduction 80:4 141:14 149:19 225:12 ref 60:3 refer242:19 reference55:1 60:1 61:6,20,21 62:19 86:1 referred227:18 refinements 31:1 261:8 reflect 47:15 104:11 217:20 247:15 reflects 52:7 refrigerator

225:1 refrigerators 225:5 Regal4:18 54:22 regard208:9 223:11 225:12 regarding7:13 34:8 regardless 35:1 145:8 188:11 198:9,16 216:12 226:13 regards 188:4 register 269:3,10 registered 269:4 regular148:10 regulate24:1 89:13,19 90:5,10,11 100:22 192:4 regulated24:2 93:19 129:20 189:18 199:12 regulating89:15 176:18 regulation 20:17 21:3 27:13 90:13 144:19 185:8,19 186:2,15 196:17 regulations 19:16 267:19 regulatory

14:9 195:3 Reis 2:22 5:20 reiterate 199:7 related53:4 69:22 70:22 278:5 282:9 relates 89:3 relationship 140:10 relative61:11 62:7 221:6 226:2 228:17 235:16 238:4,6 relatively 208:15 223:20 224:2 relevant 44:5 reliable 107:20 relies 103:2 rely120:22 230:15 remarks 279:22 280:2 remember

209:8 remind 276:5

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 42

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 remove 13:20 22:3 removed 59:4,5 reopen 170:18 replace129:5 196:20 223:18 replaced196:19 replacement 196:18 225:6 replaces 216:4 replacing216:6 report 136:9 reported1:18 143:10 281:4 Reporter 281:4 282:1,3,18 Reporter's 281:6 reporting1:18 136:10,14 reposed237:10 represent 35:3,19 60:3 61:16 67:2 104:9 173:1 183:18 193:11 representation 35:14 53:15 representative 35:17 43:16 58:22 66:15 67:4 82:10,18,21 83:9,11 137:11 138:19 161:4 163:13,14,15 184:9,14 represented 35:18 76:9 representing 26:19 36:7 83:16 84:8 184:3 represents 61:1

request113:11 134:16 258:19 requested113:12 268:6 requests 278:22 require31:6 143:18 188:14 196:3 197:3,9,16 216:14 required 80:14 107:11 143:10 189:22 197:1 245:11 requirement94:1 182:16 189:21 191:21 196:6 requirements 95:13 requires 61:12 94:18 95:19 research 167:18 172:11 residences 214:13 residential27:10 residents 214:16 residual10:22 resolute7:17 resolution 17:19 136:1 resolve110:10 resolved56:14 151:13 resolves 27:14 resolving135:4 resource235:19 resources 210:22 222:16 229:15,16 237:13 respect 27:4 199:6 207:22 208:1 234:12 277:12 respects 276:14 respond 72:7 145:5 147:5 154:8 180:6 187:19 210:13 241:16 251:15,19 responded 213:10 responds 179:18 180:10 response103:18 151:22 152:8,10 161:11 279:11 280:1 responsible 98:13,14 rest 62:7 90:7 151:15 169:2 243:8 267:15 272:2 restricting 24:16 result36:18 61:8 152:14 246:5 resulting184:18 results 101:19 121:9 243:13 244:11,12,16 252:4,5,13 256:17 resume 110:18 200:16 201:2 retail223:13,19 retooling243:19 retrofit 216:2,16 return 200:5,7,9 review10:9 243:14 268:8 273:11 revise221:17 revised43:10 62:10 revision 253:5 revisit194:1 212:17 rigor97:14 road 139:3 168:17 174:8 183:13 Rob 3:2 6:4 101:21,22 104:22 139:6,7 143:21,22 ROBERT 2:9 Rob's 109:12 robust217:19 role210:4 roll209:21 265:14 rolled 116:10 224:9 rolling 228:10 roll-out209:1 roll-up 209:1 room4:13 15:8 34:4 53:20 110:21 128:22 215:7 224:8 233:4 273:16 276:9,12,17 277:12,14,18 279:22 rope23:6

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 43

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Rosenstock

2:13 41:10,16,20 52:10,12 53:7,12,13 55:4,5,17 56:1 63:22 64:1,7,8,18 65:11 71:10,17,22 72:22 73:2,9,19 78:22 87:12,20 93:14,16 95:5,14 96:4 108:1,2 112:9 121:5,6,19 122:4,8,12,15 123:7 124:5,6,10,14 126:18,19,22 129:3,4,8,10 130:18 132:8,9 133:5,8,11 144:21,22 145:9,15,19 146:15,19 155:8,16 161:13,14,21 162:2,5,18 163:1,4,19 167:11 168:2,3 189:15,16 195:7 197:22 198:1 222:1 231:15,16,21 232:2 233:7,20 246:3 273:4,5 rotary 13:7 20:13,14 rotodynamic 28:2,4,9 29:1,7,12 30:1,3,8,12 31:2,3 rough 226:3 round 260:12 row67:2 68:3 RPR/CSR

1:18 rubber183:12 rule 94:21 224:4 231:6 241:19,22 244:14 246:6,11,22 247:15,18 248:2 271:17 ruled 67:11 rulemaking1:8 4:8 9:10 11:20 62:2 105:9 138:22 170:16,17,18,19 208:6 222:11,22 229:7,10,11,18,2 1 230:6 232:5 239:5 240:2 246:12,19 247:3,11 250:2 278:8 rulemakings 67:10 252:1 rules 116:2 176:16 247:2 272:18,19 ruling 48:6 run 46:9 51:18 101:9 106:19 138:12 144:5,11 145:8 166:9 running 47:8 150:6,9 213:16,20 214:2 217:10 run-out145:6 146:8,12 S sales 176:13 219:3

San 5:8 sanitary12:16 Sarah 2:20 5:21 33:15 38:1 49:5 54:10 56:4 57:12,18 69:21 101:15 112:19 115:6 128:11 135:12,13 141:10,12 142:17 145:21 156:11 158:5 168:9 174:12 181:8 185:4 263:9 268:12 Sarah's 97:20 98:19 satisfy32:11 save34:7 41:8 131:16 156:5 215:11 216:7,11 saved 215:13 229:9 saving 153:21 savings 84:3 93:9 100:21 101:1 104:12 155:18 167:7 169:12 186:5,8 187:6,11,20 189:13,22 194:7 199:22 202:8,10 203:14 209:3,7,9,14 210:11 211:10,16 217:3,14 220:16 221:3,6,7 228:7,15,17 229:5,14 230:7,10,13 234:18

235:12,16 254:20 256:4,15 257:1 saw76:21 217:22 275:15 scale59:6 127:22 223:15 252:19 scales 59:1 scaling 256:18 scenario 89:22 90:1,2 125:20 scenarios 89:22 162:11 252:15 schedule 10:5 215:9 scheduling 111:6 scheme 238:21 scope7:10 8:11 10:13 11:22 14:6 17:19 26:4,8,16 27:2 28:1 29:21 62:1 130:10,12 166:20 199:19 240:14 252:9,11 256:3 266:4,7 275:4 278:5,10,11 score115:10 scrapings 172:19 screen274:15 scrutiny253:6 season 213:15 seasonal52:20,22 seats 4:4 111:1 second 4:10 47:17 64:12 103:15 232:4,5 250:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 44

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 251:11,17 Secondly176:8 Secretary247:10 280:5 section 28:19 94:4,12 220:3 240:1 sector 21:21 seeing87:3 108:6 179:1 223:14 279:21 seem7:17 216:9,17 seemed 158:16 161:10 seems 9:7 10:2 41:21 53:3 124:19 131:22 134:13 135:22 138:1 147:16 148:10 159:13,14 203:7 259:22 271:13,16 seen 34:14 88:10 123:9 143:1 214:16 248:17,18 SEER 52:20 55:19,20 segment112:22 segments 131:7,14 segue71:6 72:4 select 30:2 241:20 selected150:1 selections 244:19 self-learning 215:4 self-sensing 179:10 sell84:15 154:22 171:18,20 216:10 220:7 226:7 selling 80:15 84:10,12 129:16 188:11 send 113:19 114:9 164:4 257:20 274:3 sending 8:10 279:3 sense 20:1 45:14 46:12 108:13 134:2 136:16,20,21 186:10 188:10 189:2 191:15 194:14 208:2 231:12 232:12,17 260:8 265:9 267:12 sensible 100:15 136:4 Sensing 182:10 sensitivity163:17 sensorless 179:10 184:1 sensors 215:5,6 sent33:3 113:14 136:8 213:7 268:10 separate11:19,20 25:5 66:4,10 89:13 90:12 122:21 123:3 142:18,22 188:6 204:2 212:4,5 229:10 247:1 257:16

separated25:3 66:3 separately

66:12 220:20 separation 140:8 sequence248:11 sequencing 11:21 156:2 SER 156:17 157:2,6,7 194:21 series 99:2 serve59:11 92:3 194:14 225:9 272:20 served43:2 serves 28:21 setting24:15 105:12 116:12,15 119:9 120:3,7 123:19 125:18 193:15 194:2,7 197:16 198:22 199:16 242:3 settle31:15 135:6 setup 277:15 seven 105:10 172:11 209:18 several 54:5 97:22 111:7 216:8 224:8 240:21 Shack 225:7 shaft61:6,20 77:1 118:8,13 shape 138:19 shapes 139:2 172:19 share164:17

207:6 shared 109:10 255:11 SharePoint 271:4,7 272:8,11 274:6 277:18 sharing 252:13 272:2 sheet244:18 245:12 247:9 sheets 178:10 shelf 178:5 she's 97:20 112:18 ship 171:20 shipment 209:17 259:11 shipments 132:5 259:9,13 260:10 shipping 98:15 108:11,12 132:11 short146:21 256:12 shortcuts 101:11 shortly200:8 shove 198:13 showed 71:19 115:6 128:20 131:5,12 210:18 showing 115:14 187:11 223:12 252:2 shown 126:12 143:1 164:14 165:3 187:9 221:14,19,20 shrunk 155:10

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 45

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 shutoff 146:2 sign 39:10 signals 182:5 significant 25:21 131:7 136:18 140:9 142:11 167:15 186:5 187:20 263:5 significantly 80:12 142:11 158:17 similar33:18 44:12 60:19 61:19 68:3 78:10 85:12 93:22 148:10 149:20 154:9 183:5 210:6,10 221:19,20 225:1 234:19 252:6 254:7 similarly 130:10 simple65:17 simpler 155:16 simply212:17 214:16 227:10,12 Simultaneous 276:18 sine 268:22 single 18:14 32:8,9 49:16 91:21 103:20 110:7 140:4 sit98:20 194:17 site 271:4,5 sitting 88:11 230:18 255:16 276:22 277:7 situation 32:1 137:12 146:20 situations 14:16 six 105:3 213:21 214:2,14 245:7 six-month213:15 sizable 235:7 size 37:15 59:2 60:12 62:17 70:1 77:10 145:13,14 174:15,16 207:11 217:9 235:1 sized 116:3 117:14 145:6 153:20 sizes 27:9 59:9 sizing 116:3 sleep 7:11 slide 34:14 36:20,21 40:7 41:12,14,17 72:5 76:10 82:4,10,11 115:6 121:10,13 135:10 157:9 185:5 234:15 274:19 slides 33:4,8,20 37:20 41:22 57:20 76:5 82:11 86:17 113:8,12 115:4 121:11 127:13 131:5 157:15 268:6 274:14,16 275:6,11,13 slight119:6 slightly59:18,19 135:20 slow 17:18 114:17 slows 182:15 small 20:17 27:9,11 37:11 52:15 86:18 132:22 142:8 220:5 223:20 225:1 229:14,16 235:11 smaller 37:16 59:11,19 63:14 176:1 smallest 207:11 217:3,7 snapshot202:18 sold 34:20 35:2,21,22 36:13 43:17 44:3 131:1 171:5 187:1 188:15 189:4,10 191:22 193:18 198:8 223:20 224:2 235:17 solid 262:4 solids 24:5 solution 19:11,17 29:3 31:6 109:20 solve 7:5 143:20 somebody48:7,13 88:15,16 98:7,16 166:4 272:7 somehow 96:19 108:5 143:14 152:12 269:8 someone 69:10,19 104:4 120:21 121:1 152:13 193:15 270:2,22 273:21 someone's 132:11 sometime107:2 250:21 somewhat72:16

210:1 249:4 somewhere 19:15 117:5 Sooner255:22 sophisticated 88:17 216:17 sorry 17:22 28:11 38:9 39:6,7 40:5 44:19 47:18 114:16 118:16 125:1,9 129:9 135:13 183:11 192:19 261:1 sort22:5 38:6 45:7,17 62:19 63:13 69:14 79:10 86:21 111:17 112:11,21 139:2 161:3,16 162:16 165:5 167:2 174:17 181:11 190:9 201:14 202:18 203:16 209:21 210:4 211:22 234:16 248:11 263:15 267:11 268:8 sorts 130:9 211:3 268:5 sound 31:13 sounding 14:19 sounds 18:13 90:21 91:4 92:1 100:3 147:17 167:14 244:8 sources 274:8 Southern 5:8,9 span 278:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 46

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 speak 15:9 22:17 27:19 43:22 54:5 141:10 192:8 264:11 speaking 54:18 86:12 160:12 166:14 227:10,12,14,20 264:14 269:13 specialized 196:14 specialty225:14 specific 9:7 18:3 24:17 29:11 33:5 51:11 59:3 60:12 70:1 94:13 95:9 115:19,20 116:8 118:8 128:5,7 135:2 137:6,16 146:5 188:16,20 260:18 267:10 specifically9:9 14:11 95:19 173:8 212:3 266:14 specification 266:16 specified 94:21 95:8 specify28:9 63:9 95:17 137:16,21 184:2,8,9 272:19 specifying 180:17 specking 59:15 speed 37:13 42:8,15,17 58:19 59:3 60:12 70:2 83:21 96:20 115:19,20 116:8 118:8 128:5,7 140:10 149:3,19 155:13 160:8 162:3 167:16,21 178:19 185:9 186:4,5,9 187:12 191:3 194:5 196:22 197:1,7 203:19 205:15 207:15 speeding 160:1 speeds 55:3 146:5 spend 175:14,16 218:6 229:15 266:15 spending 16:4 17:1 101:10 spent30:7 131:8 252:1 spills 163:20 spinning 238:11 split76:21 219:2 split-phase 225:1 splits 66:3 spot168:1 spread 48:6 stage8:11 199:10 232:4,5 248:4 stainless 23:14 stand 5:19 234:4 standard 26:16 28:10 29:22 34:9 49:2,15 51:12,18 59:17 77:8 91:6,7,9,16 92:15 94:17,19 98:9 107:2 108:15 110:5 116:1,15 118:7 119:3 120:3,7 122:1 123:19 124:3 125:19 126:8,9,13

130:10,13 134:22 151:15,22 152:14 153:1 154:11 169:3 170:1 186:17 187:3 188:13 190:1,4,7,10 191:1,4 193:5,12,15,17,1 8 194:7,10 197:16 198:5,7,16,17,22 208:4 215:14 235:6 240:12 241:2,21 242:3 244:17 245:1 249:9 252:5 264:4,12 standardized 60:5,10 76:14 77:10 79:19 103:22 106:1 120:4 199:3 standards 5:13 18:17 21:12 24:12,16,17 39:15 55:9 127:1 128:15 143:11 158:20 167:4 173:6 188:6 191:12 194:2 195:9 196:5 199:12 216:14 244:14 standpoint 89:13,14 90:13 139:16 140:1 211:5 212:4 225:17,19 227:6 236:8 Starr2:12 5:5 19:3,10 44:10,16 45:9,12,20 46:5 65:14 66:7 68:21 69:1,13 80:19,22 104:20 124:17 125:2,5,9 137:2,11,18 138:4,8,15 147:9 148:1,5,8,15,19 149:5,22 150:11,14 153:15 159:13,19 160:1,4,12 168:7 173:22 174:1 191:9,10 195:22 204:9,12,19 208:22 209:20 216:19 219:14,19 220:1 228:2 269:13,21 270:2 start 4:12,13 6:10 16:4 21:17 26:22 50:3 51:5 60:15 152:18 164:18 217:2 229:18 252:12 260:4 261:16 271:18 276:8 started8:9 13:13 92:18 100:16 210:7 224:20 275:3 starting120:15 128:10 170:15 249:13 state132:7 stated8:20 51:7 136:15 190:18 237:6 statement32:21 53:9 201:14

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 47

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 261:22 263:5 statements 70:11 States 1:4 62:1 98:18 177:20 static150:17 statute55:10 94:10,18 stay16:1 74:7 83:20 112:6 144:3 256:1 staying73:22 124:12 143:19 step 54:4 102:7 130:1 197:2,6 Steve2:13 3:5 6:8 41:10,19 52:10,12 53:7 55:1,4,16,17 63:22 64:1,8 71:8,9,10 73:2 78:21,22 87:11,12 93:14,16 95:5 108:1,2 112:8 121:4,6 123:14 124:5 126:18 129:3,4 130:17,18 132:8 133:4,5,8,10 144:21,22 146:15,18 147:5 153:14 155:7,8 161:13,14 163:19 167:11 168:2 178:13,14 182:1 189:15,16 194:18 195:6,7 197:22 198:1 213:5 214:20 221:22 222:1 224:6 231:15 246:1 273:4,5 Steve's 53:4 166:1 181:9 198:21 stick 277:14 sticking 68:20 stone 43:8 115:3 stop 17:18 37:21 47:1 111:16 133:2 249:16 stopped 224:19 straight121:22 179:13 183:6 184:1 258:15 straightforward 100:2 279:17 straining 277:10 strategies180:1 215:2 strategy 179:16 straw231:18,20 232:1,9,20 233:11 strong58:18 112:1 structural

211:3 structure212:7 structuring190:7 struggle138:19 184:20 195:5 struggling 191:20 stuck 140:13 studies 177:6 studying 164:18 stuff 17:2 19:7 21:17 97:20 98:10 113:18 132:21 151:16 174:6 177:14 178:1 239:4 248:14 265:3

268:9 277:16 subject221:8 submit245:12,14 submitted41:13 subsequent34:13 103:6 subset189:1,6,10 191:1 211:21 substantial235:14 substitute 235:6 succeed278:5 suction 22:6,12 24:19 30:16 228:22 sudden 45:1 48:7,13 177:21 suffer 50:16 sufficient 81:4 97:14 sufficiently 97:14 suggest54:9 57:8 112:10 190:17 suggested42:11 111:15 160:19 161:2,3,11 suggesting130:1 212:15 214:13 215:10 suggestion 51:8 164:3 260:1 suggestions 17:9,13 35:9 72:18 161:1 summarize278:2 summary82:4 261:22 276:2 sump 88:16

super114:17 supplying 92:13 support109:1 273:6 supportive 32:9 270:11 supports 271:22 suppose 180:13 supposed 159:17 sure 12:14 13:17 14:22 18:1,12 20:9 32:20 49:7 55:10 76:6 90:20 91:18 100:6 110:21 111:2 114:8 120:22 141:6 151:13 165:4 172:16 174:3 176:15 180:7 191:8 200:13,18 201:19 221:13 224:15 231:13 250:5,6,20 251:3 255:15 256:13 257:9,14 266:2 268:15 275:21 surfacing 81:16 surplus 225:3 surrounding 121:2 survey254:2,3,4 surveys 136:8 suspense 110:16 swag 106:7 sweeping 77:17 swimming 27:6,7

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 48

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 196:13 switch 22:5 144:6 238:20 switching 202:4 203:14 213:9 239:5,11 system36:9,12 39:13,19 53:19,21 54:3 60:22 63:6 66:18 67:3 70:13,15,16 71:19 72:1 73:6,11,12,14,15 82:20 89:19 90:1 150:16 155:6 156:17 165:15 169:1,3,5,13,22 170:3 179:7,18,20 180:10,12,15 181:4 182:14,15 183:7 184:9,18 187:10 191:16 216:7 systems 99:1 182:16 216:1 T table 76:17 77:8 88:6,10 92:2 120:11 121:8,20 133:15 144:19 158:15 272:11 277:3,8 tables 124:8 tackle23:11 TACO 4:22 6:8 178:14 214:20 221:12 238:17 tag170:14 tail192:6 taking 14:12 21:11 48:22 61:20 77:7 78:11 96:16 99:12 101:2 114:19 139:17,19 160:14 185:10 194:20 203:16 223:4,10 232:11,16,21 251:3 253:2 talk 33:10,20 34:1 43:12 56:17 57:21 58:4 60:22 71:7 76:4 87:7 110:2 111:6 114:16,17,22 115:7 125:17 132:18 135:3 157:14,16,20 171:14 174:19 217:13 230:2 235:20 242:1 253:15 254:12 255:17 277:18 talked 64:2 79:6 85:9 93:17 97:4 115:21 174:16 194:9 215:12 271:16 278:6 talking 21:11 26:6 45:1 47:1 51:20 55:5 68:4,18 82:13 85:7 92:18 95:9 100:17 102:4 123:22 125:6 133:3 139:9,20 147:21 153:16 155:1 156:13 169:6,21 170:6 171:8 178:22 181:20 182:6 183:1,13 193:1 196:10 197:13

216:20,22 217:10 219:17 225:10,11 226:20 231:5 252:14 263:22 278:5 talks 35:10 156:12 tap 214:14,18 target 116:7,12,19 117:2 169:6 170:1 team17:1 90:7 136:20 175:2 237:12 258:18 271:22 273:22 teams 16:2 tearing225:21 technical27:22 43:6 44:1 83:5 137:8 214:7 technically269:13 technologies 80:20 81:2 84:20,22 140:2,3 171:1 179:8,9 184:14,17,21 191:15 197:14 215:4 technology148:17 177:13,15,19 179:10 184:19 194:11 196:3 214:20 television 89:10 temperature 158:15 232:21 ten 47:8 100:10 110:17 116:20 131:1 196:19 209:15,18

217:16 237:10 tend 148:5 189:4,10 267:4 tenor279:15 tentative8:6 terawatt 202:8 235:12 term 57:6 83:13 244:17 245:12 247:9 266:8 terminology35:16 terms 19:14 26:9 51:11 73:19 87:13 90:12,13 92:21 108:18 112:11 121:22 131:8 133:9 141:2 145:10 155:9 162:6 168:21 169:12,19 173:3 180:17 189:13 190:3,5 198:5,12 204:21 216:19 218:17 222:16 246:4,7 test 7:8 32:16 52:16 77:22 80:10 83:2 95:22 100:6 102:16 104:1,4,11 105:2 106:8,9,10,18,19 107:1,15,20 108:4,15 109:2,13,15 117:16 137:15,17 143:7 149:14 168:16 170:19,22 183:3 199:3,17 206:22 212:12 228:20

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 49

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 229:1 241:20 263:21 264:1,5 265:3,16,21 266:6,14,20 tested62:16 105:15 109:8 141:19 142:2 testing49:5 80:14 85:15 92:17 99:8,14,15 101:20 102:4 103:2,6,20 105:13 106:13 107:10 134:22 141:18 144:2,3 180:19 183:10 266:20 267:13 tests 107:12 thank 11:15 15:7 38:1 41:19,20,22 42:19 47:19 53:12 65:11 75:22 81:21 108:20 113:20 130:19 132:8 163:4,22 205:10 207:1 213:4 227:22 237:17,18 247:13 253:20 254:5 276:6 thanks 6:9 32:20 38:18 47:21 55:7,17 91:1 96:4 104:18 135:9 159:11 163:20 167:11 218:9 280:3 that'll266:1 that's 10:1,7,16 12:4 13:16 14:19,21 15:14 17:2 18:10,20 20:21 21:1 24:1,4 25:19 26:10 27:3 29:2,15 31:5 32:6,11,12 35:7,13 37:15 38:19 40:6,17 44:7 46:2,5,11 47:14 49:16 51:3,13 52:8,21 53:2,8 54:14 58:21 61:14 63:13,16 66:13,20 67:11 68:1,2,6 69:11,19 70:9 71:5 75:15 77:21 78:15 79:5,15,19 82:20 83:9 84:15 87:15,19 88:21 89:1,9 90:9 91:8,22 92:4,17 93:3 95:18 96:13 97:4 98:11 103:15 104:10,15,17 105:17 108:14 109:10,16 111:11 113:5,20 114:3,7 120:7 122:22 123:7 126:9 127:4 128:1 130:14 132:7 133:4 136:3,8,9,12,16 137:9 138:21 139:21 140:21 141:7 143:9 144:1,18,19 148:19 150:5 151:6,10,13,20 152:10,22 155:13 156:3,4,7 160:11 161:9 165:21 166:10

167:12 169:14 171:6,10 172:6 174:18 175:6 176:6 178:3 179:10,15 183:2,12,13 190:11 191:6,14 192:11 193:4,12,18,19 195:5,12,19 196:3,14 197:2,13 198:5 199:10 202:9 203:7 204:10,19,21 205:21 206:11 209:16 211:11 213:20 214:3,6 215:17 216:7 217:7 218:7 219:3 220:21 221:3,16 222:11,17 228:8 229:19 231:7 235:17 236:16 238:13 240:17 242:1,6 245:11 247:2,5 248:3,16 249:1,12 250:17 252:19 253:6 254:11 255:11 256:10 257:2 259:16 261:2,14 263:21 265:1,19 267:8,11 268:14 269:16 270:9 272:8 273:3 274:5,6 278:14 279:8 theoretically62:14 143:12 theory 17:16 thereafter

200:8 206:18 282:6

therefore150:20 197:18 there's 7:12,20 8:15 13:4,6,7,8 16:15,18 19:12 20:7,15 23:14 27:9 29:12 30:21 36:3,20 37:3 39:2 43:5 50:15 58:11 59:14 60:15 69:8 70:12,18,19 71:3 72:18 75:18 79:11,13 82:16 83:2 85:2,3 88:6 89:2 91:14 92:1,11,19 93:12,18,22 96:7 97:9 99:21 100:1,7 106:6 109:19 112:10 127:22 134:10 145:13 146:3,9,20,21 147:12 149:22 154:21 155:21 160:9 161:1 166:15 176:20,21 177:7,8 179:9 180:5,21 181:4,13 182:2 183:10 189:21 195:3 207:16 209:6,12,20 210:1 214:19 215:1,3,8 217:5,16 218:4,22 223:8 226:15 228:19,20 229:8,13,21 233:22 234:2,22

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 50

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 235:5 236:21 237:3 239:22 241:5,13 243:5 244:8 245:3,19 253:4 257:9 259:11 they'd 9:17 21:22 52:8 267:10 they'll73:19 144:8 215:4 they're26:16 28:9 30:4 75:4 79:13 99:17 114:8 116:2 132:21 134:18 136:19 144:11 148:8,9 159:17 169:11 174:6 177:2 180:5 182:17 190:8 196:6,19 211:14 216:1 240:12 252:4 260:21 273:9,10 274:14 they've106:5 165:3 226:2 254:8 third 4:11 64:22 176:12 232:6 253:13 254:9 Thompson 3:5 6:8 178:14,16,18 179:5 213:5,6 214:19,20 215:1 thoughts 12:20 157:18 272:10 279:9 thousands 51:19 three-chain 153:3 throttle40:15 65:19 throttling96:17

throughout44:22 261:3 throw98:21 155:21 218:12 223:2 232:2 throwing 57:4 71:14 thrown 178:10 thrust23:17 tie 62:2 tied 140:10 ties 62:9 88:22 till111:19,21 112:7 206:18 timeline 278:7 timely32:13 timers 215:8 today4:9 6:21 7:13,18 8:2 9:4,11 11:6,13 12:17 15:10 16:22 17:7 31:14 56:10,14 88:20 90:16,18 91:20 111:9 113:13 114:9 151:10 164:14,15 171:17 189:5 200:3,11 223:5 232:11,16,18 233:1,5,20 241:17 250:3 260:15 261:3 263:6 273:10 275:9 278:8,20 tolerances 37:18 Tom2:15 5:14 8:1,15 9:16 11:15 53:3,16 108:21 110:6,13 151:11 168:19 172:1 234:14 237:19 238:13 240:20 250:6,19 255:21 263:4 268:19,22 270:6 tomorrow164:20 Tom's 153:15 170:14 257:3 tonight113:19 tooling 244:2 top 34:16 37:7 63:1 66:20,21,22 67:2 72:10,13 85:10 86:22 189:22 195:11 topic 246:1,2 249:21 251:11,13 263:19 271:1 topics 241:11 torn 226:2 total70:14 197:3 235:8,14,16 totally178:6 182:22 touch 224:19 236:3 touched 93:8 tough 215:18,20 toward 233:5 253:2 towards 18:7 34:12 83:6 168:16 276:3 Towsley2:11 5:4 track 144:3 159:3 tradeoffs 101:16 train 113:3 249:16 transcript

269:8 281:5,7 282:7 transcription 281:1,8 Transcriptionist 281:17 transfer23:4 transformers 246:20 translate88:7 247:12 262:8 translated266:1 translating245:15 transparency 228:4 transparent 273:13 travel 112:5 treat 53:19 treated 129:19 149:1 272:16,17 tree7:3 20:7 21:13,14 278:14 tried141:22 188:8,22 211:19 267:18 tries 201:6 trims 154:15 true29:15 37:15 53:17 189:9 281:8 282:7 truly182:13 truncated54:21

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 51

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Trust172:10 try10:13 30:17 33:20 74:15 93:13 116:21 123:3 164:6 166:19 178:15 196:16 245:6 260:6 261:10 trying14:11 18:21 19:18 21:1 23:13 26:9 42:15 47:14 50:2 52:9 69:15 74:18,22 81:6,7,9 86:11 88:12 92:1,11 95:7 96:14,15,16 98:3,12 100:14 121:7,21 123:15 131:16 165:13,19 169:5 172:1 174:3 179:1,5 181:19 182:2 185:15 189:9 192:12 206:12 216:13 232:22 236:12 250:8 252:10 255:16 turbine 130:4 turbines 98:21 turn 158:3 215:8 216:12 238:10 247:3 249:14,15 turned 224:17 246:21 turning 4:14 214:5,8 224:19,20 turns 238:9 243:7 turntables 225:2 tweaking 236:22 twice 9:21 73:15 two-speed 155:12 197:3 type16:8,11,19 18:5,6 20:6 22:8 52:20,22 70:1 75:3,4 85:5 156:8 181:12 183:17 187:10 192:4 198:12 211:1 222:6 245:9 typed 281:5 types 15:16 19:22 20:8 24:11,15,17,20 25:3,5 29:21 30:2,5 56:14 58:7 107:17 130:9 131:16 155:11,19 204:5 206:3 211:13,17,22 212:6 237:7 278:11 typewriting 282:6 typical162:7 248:8,11 typically9:16 17:12 195:9 211:16 239:3 typos 113:18 U U.S 4:7 177:1,7,8 198:8,9 ultimate223:14 ultimately102:21 168:8 229:4 unable 8:1 uncontrolled 60:21 66:18 67:3 undecided 208:7 underneath 63:3 understand 14:21 18:12 20:22 24:9 43:3 49:7 50:18 73:4,20 76:7 88:19,20 89:5,7,8,20 90:1 92:6 93:8 97:1 115:4 124:7 140:21 169:19 185:16 186:3 191:8 192:12 249:3 266:3 267:16 272:6 understanding 16:19 28:1 57:4 134:3,16 142:12 145:4 147:12 164:19 185:19 189:4 217:5 264:8 understands 13:12 understood 23:16 55:4,5 88:21 92:5 124:5 145:15 192:15 unfortunately 76:3 122:17 224:16 Un-huh 39:11 70:3 71:16 73:8 263:11 unit50:17 96:21 121:11,15 123:1,11 178:5 United 1:4 62:1 units 37:3 67:19 219:21

universal31:6 universe 22:14 unless 39:2 40:2 270:22 unmiked 86:12 160:12 updated 210:17,18 updating 202:1 upgrade 106:2 upon 87:22 103:2 126:10 140:18,19 194:1 262:21 276:21 usage 90:15,18 93:21 161:17 185:19 215:5 234:17 useful 91:11,15 92:3,8,14 256:10 259:20 users 88:14 usually 122:5 150:17 196:19 utilities 5:7 199:1 utility191:13,14 194:2,4,13 197:19 198:2 199:21 225:9 utilization 203:12 utilized 129:1 216:17 227:1 utilizes 105:9 utilizing 173:20 V validated 264:17,18

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 52

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 value 17:3 37:7 49:21 57:6 60:12 61:9 76:21 103:10,12 104:5,15 109:13,16 115:17 116:7,19 117:13 118:18 121:20,21 124:4 125:14,16 127:19 128:1,2,6 130:3 140:20 163:10 221:5 values 84:2 102:5 109:3,4,7,9,14,1 5 116:9,12 117:2 118:13 130:4 147:18 164:19 169:9 valuing 197:6 valve 96:17 variability161:5 variable 42:15 52:20 96:20 103:13 110:14 119:12 120:6 123:17 127:22 140:15 144:11 180:6 181:2 185:9 186:4 187:12 191:3 194:22 197:1 variables 33:22 34:8 35:2 36:3,6 39:20 56:7,13,17 58:5 63:21 71:7 76:3,10 77:15 85:20 170:21 175:22 variance162:18 175:5 variations 70:5 219:13 varies 52:18 145:12 165:14,15 variety 8:14 105:4 various 73:9 140:7 191:15 215:2 257:1 261:4 vary101:4,7 119:22 141:1 145:16 173:15 175:20 222:4 varying124:3 169:2 verification 85:3 version 16:14,15 30:10 versus 7:2 12:20 36:22 58:12 89:14 101:17 141:19,20 142:2 144:2 154:14 161:17 175:17 180:9 181:19 182:13 183:7 185:19,20 218:20 226:1 227:15 VFD 46:1 65:20 66:2,4,8 69:5 98:7 99:4 101:7 124:20 125:5 142:13,14,16 150:12 156:19 159:15 171:21 176:16 182:3 188:15 189:6,12 VFDs105:4,6 107:18 168:13 VFD's 105:2 via 201:3,4,6,7 264:13 274:8 viable 61:18 view14:17 131:11 197:12 views 98:4 virtually206:3 viscous 20:5 volume23:1 150:8 vote16:6,10,22 17:6 18:2,3,4 34:6 87:14 223:5,10 231:18 232:11,16,21 233:2,4,5,17,19 248:20 268:19 269:2,3,10,14 270:9 272:21 voted30:11 129:12 268:20 271:6 278:17 votes 269:5 270:20 voting88:2 245:1 VSD 149:20 183:21 W wait47:17 251:17 waiting 164:9 Wakashaws 133:3 walk-in 226:12,17 walks 215:7 Walmart178:4 WALTNER

2:16 warranted81:3 Washington 4:9 wasn't 143:7 268:22 269:14

water5:3 7:1 12:20 13:5,11,14,20 15:2 16:8,16,17 18:7,15 20:11,12,13 21:15,16,18,20,2 2 23:7,22 24:21 25:4,5,14 26:6,9 27:1 31:4 32:9 39:19 85:15 102:16 103:19 104:1 183:3 203:12,21 204:2,3 205:14 213:13,19,21 214:2,14,17,18 215:3,10 216:2 261:11 262:1 278:13 watt139:18 140:14,22 189:18 wattage203:15 204:9,14,16 217:5 218:13,15 226:12 227:16 watts 140:8,9 197:14 204:19,21 205:6,7 218:1 ways 34:12 69:14 75:19 79:6,11 82:16 137:14 141:5 182:2 230:9 262:19 weaker59:2 wear110:21 200:18 Web 6:13 201:4,6,7 264:14

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 53

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 272:11 277:15 Website272:4 we'd 17:6 22:3 43:1,21 72:10 84:21 91:18 92:20 98:22 104:11 114:8 124:3 126:3 127:5 184:16 212:21 243:20 257:5 261:18 Wednesday1:11 4:6 week 211:13 255:2 weeks 200:14 212:17 224:17 weigh 220:12 241:1 weighing 140:6 168:8 241:6 weight160:20 163:13 165:22 179:16,22 weighted 36:3,5 37:6 45:3 49:17,21 51:9 63:5 78:5 82:22 204:14 weighting 36:4 41:3,4 44:16,21 65:18 135:17 147:4 151:2,4 157:22 158:3,6 160:16,17 161:2,9,17,21 162:12,13,14 163:8,15 164:10 165:8 168:10 169:11 170:20 172:17 173:3,4 weightings 56:11 77:19 170:16 171:13 weights 118:2 173:12 Weintraub 2:21 6:1 205:1,3 239:21 240:15,17 welcome6:15 87:7 201:7 269:11 279:9 we'll 4:13 10:9 11:2 15:10 17:10 29:16 32:2,12 42:2 51:4,13 61:4 72:15 76:20 81:18 82:3 92:22 110:18,20 114:20 132:6 133:18 157:15,17 175:7 181:3 200:16 221:9 244:13,15 246:9 249:9 251:21 255:5 257:16,20 260:6 262:22 265:17 276:9 277:18 280:3 we're 9:10,20 10:13,17 12:10,16 13:9,10,21 14:8 15:8,11 17:9 18:17 20:8,10,16,21,22 21:1,8,11,15,16 23:8 24:1,12,15 26:6 28:7 30:9 31:10,13 32:4 33:2,10 35:6 47:3,14 48:5,14,21 51:20 52:3,4,9 55:13 56:12 62:1 68:3,21 71:14 74:22 75:15 76:15 77:5 78:1,11 81:6,9 82:13 85:15 88:1 92:11 93:7 94:12 96:6,14,15 97:6 98:6 100:10,22 101:2 102:4 103:13 112:20 113:1,2,4 115:7,11,14 116:15 118:5,11 121:18 122:13 123:15,22 124:9,12 125:5,6,13 127:6 131:6 132:12 133:17 135:7 138:22 139:9,20 141:6 143:3,20 147:14 151:7,9,16 153:8 154:19 155:1,22 156:16 157:13 158:22 159:7 160:1,2,16 165:19 166:18 167:3 169:1,6,10,15 170:6 171:8,14 172:6,16 173:2 175:4,18 176:14 178:2,11 180:7,18 181:6 183:1,8,13 184:3,20 185:10 190:16,19 191:20 192:5,12,16 194:20 196:10 198:22 199:14,16 200:13 202:1

204:4 206:17 207:4,16,17 208:3,5,12,18 209:1 211:16 212:15,16 217:3,10 218:19 222:12,19,21 223:9,12 224:3 225:10,11 226:20 230:21,22 233:18 234:9,22 235:10,11 236:3,4,10 237:4 238:11,12,13 242:7 243:6 244:21 249:13 250:5 251:2 253:18 254:16 255:11 256:19 257:10,12 258:14,17 259:4 261:7,9,19 262:11,17 265:18 272:1 273:16 276:2,10 279:1,13,19 wet159:10 we've 7:15 8:12 11:1 13:17,20 21:7 25:19 31:10,12 32:1 36:2 50:20 51:1,7 72:16 79:5,18 83:3,7 85:19 88:10 90:10 93:7,13 96:18 97:2,4,5 108:3 110:18 136:8,9 143:1 166:15 169:8 174:19 177:9,11 186:15 187:2

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 54

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 188:8,22 190:17 192:21,22 196:12 199:15 200:3 205:4 207:10,14 218:2 220:19 225:17 230:20 231:5 234:1 243:17,22 244:3 246:19 248:17,18,22 254:7 255:9 260:13 263:22 267:16,18 268:7 270:12 278:2,4,22 whatever10:22 14:18 16:7,16 18:7 23:2 26:15 42:6 48:5,11 58:14 75:6 89:10 94:16 102:21 106:2 115:3 116:21 123:21 124:2 133:4 134:12 138:10 153:8,11 156:16 157:7,9 163:16 164:22 168:2,3,4 174:3,4,9 175:18 176:4 184:7 191:2 193:12 194:20,21 210:14 228:8 243:19 whatever's 14:18 wheels 238:11 whenever214:18 265:13 whereas 26:14 59:9 Whereupon 200:20 280:6 whether7:2,4 8:9 24:19 25:1 29:11 40:20,21 44:7 52:14,18 69:18 73:10 89:9 92:2 100:22 130:15 133:18 142:20 154:1 157:6 165:8 169:20 188:11 208:3,5 229:6 232:16,22 233:2,15 235:20 238:3 239:18 240:9 246:8 251:5 256:9 270:6,7 271:3,6,13 274:4 whichever21:5 whiteboard 76:6 whole 21:21 23:14 50:14 64:15 83:11 84:13 87:22 104:4 109:21 137:3,6 148:17 157:10 162:17 169:1 176:22 196:20 217:16 229:1,9 236:21 237:4 238:21 239:22 240:2,7,8 241:13 243:8 245:3 247:7 whom 247:21 282:4 whomever

274:5 who's 88:15,16 Widder2:20 5:21 33:14,15,16 38:2,5,9,11,18 39:8,11,14,21 40:2,5,8,16 41:15,19 42:1

43:5 44:15 45:8,11,14 46:4,12,14,20,22 47:4,12,16,18 49:7 56:5 57:1,7,13,15,19 64:5,17 65:4,12 66:6,13 67:13,16,18,21 68:14,18 69:12 70:3,18 71:5,16,21 72:6 73:1,8 76:1 79:3 81:1,8,11,14,17, 20,22 86:14,16 87:19 102:10,12,17 135:10,12,13 136:13 137:10,13,19 138:7,14,17 139:11 141:11,13 142:14,18 143:5,17 144:13,20 145:4,12,16,20 147:5,20 148:4,7,12,18,21 149:9,12 150:10,13,22 151:3,7,17 152:6,16,21 153:5,10,12 154:7 155:15 157:4,12 158:7,13 160:17 161:20 162:1,4,9,20 163:3,5 164:1,6,16 165:6 170:10,13 171:11 172:15 174:11,13 179:4 180:2 181:15,18

182:4,9,12,19,22 185:1,6,11,14,17 ,22 186:12 193:22 263:11,14 268:13 wide 22:13 23:3 53:13 88:15 widely 83:4,5 88:21 138:20 173:16 Williams 2:19 6:2 22:4 26:2,14 29:20 86:12 104:14 109:22 113:7,17 114:15 119:18 120:2 121:17 122:2,5,10,13,21 123:10 125:10 127:14,20 129:9,11 132:2,12 133:14 148:22 169:16 173:7 201:19 202:1 203:13 204:1,13 205:18 209:18 210:12 212:2 218:11 219:7,10 239:1,20 251:12,15,20 253:15 254:5,13,19 255:13,18 256:11 257:13 258:2,5,10,12 259:4,8,14,18 260:2,6,10 270:15,18,21 275:11,20 willing 220:18

### Capital Reporting Company

Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working Group Meeting 03-05-2014 Page 55

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 230:21 231:11 238:4,12 wind 67:18 wire 39:19 85:14 102:16 103:19 104:1 183:2 wireless 215:5 wish 54:5 82:10 214:13 270:6 wishes 269:7,9 279:14 wonder 26:10 wondering 8:14 22:5 128:22 133:22 135:16 158:22 wording 16:10 18:3 work 11:17,20,21 12:4 17:15,18 19:5 33:12 34:9 50:4,15 54:10 76:7 82:16 92:20 100:1 110:11 111:16,19,21 112:14 120:15 122:18 129:6 143:19 145:22 168:18 174:20 186:7 237:22 238:21 241:21 245:7 262:21 265:12 272:1 273:11 workable 262:9 working 1:8 4:8,11 8:10,16 10:6 12:3 112:7 113:15 130:5,14 172:10 201:8 224:20 247:16,22 267:16 271:6,7 273:11 275:13 280:6 works 17:12 53:16 242:21 world 39:18 48:10 52:8 105:13 Worldwide 16:3 worried 13:18 32:15 48:21 71:3 258:12 worse 85:5 worth 101:9 163:7 232:15,18,22 235:12 238:7,8 245:7 worthwhile 193:22 wrap 88:11 89:5 wrapping 89:17 90:6 write 24:12 61:4 91:7 94:20 140:10 193:4 208:4 260:1,6 writing 24:14 257:18 written 38:6 55:10 198:5 wrong 114:20 172:21 176:21 177:3 226:6 236:17 257:22 wrote128:11 130:7 X Xylem4:20 25:16 191:19 194:16 219:5 Y Yah 149:21 yellow7:14 8:22 10:15 12:1 26:5 93:19 206:4 211:7 212:6 228:13 234:11 243:22 279:7 yep 42:1 57:15 65:12 67:21 78:8 153:5 157:4 163:3,5 165:6 205:18 207:13 260:2 263:14 268:13 277:19 yesterday 6:12,17,22 7:6 8:1 11:16 12:16 15:8 25:11 30:7 71:12 113:13 199:15 202:2 203:5 204:1 211:18,19 257:22 261:4 268:20 275:4 276:12 yet8:11,12 16:10 54:15 83:4 124:9 132:3 181:16 213:8 230:16,22 256:3 274:6 yield 253:6 you'll23:5 93:20 100:11 136:10,11 150:4 172:3 244:12,16 yours 254:7 yourselves 253:3 you've 7:11 14:1 22:21 25:2 29:16 93:11 124:19 150:1 154:5 155:10 162:7 164:14 171:18 172:4,5 179:19,20 240:13 254:2 273:7 Z zero 61:9 62:5 63:10,11 66:19 79:13 98:1 132:5 zeroing199:18 207:17