1 

### UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

# DECEIV DEPARTMENT OF**TRANSPORTATIO~l** 

# D OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

## JUL 242014 HEARING DO KET IN THE MATTER OF: BAER AIR, INC., FDMS No. FAA-2014-0112 Respondent.

Wednesday, July 9, 2014

The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 10:46 a.m.
BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433

### APPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: VINCENT BENNETT, ESQ. Of: Federal Aviation Administration Office of the Regional Counsel 12 New England Executive Park Burlington, MA 01803 (781) 238-7040

On Behalf of the Respondent: JARED ALLEN, ESQ. 1997 Annapolis Exchange Parkway Suite 300 Annapolis, MD 21401 (301) 294-8550

NEAL R. GROSS 2

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·44333

1 

### P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 

### 10:46 a.m. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the 4 record in the matter of Baer Air, Inc. This 5 is Docket No. FAA-2014-0112. 6 Today is Wednesday, July 9, 2014, 7 and the parties have convenedby telephone for 8 

### a litigation scheduling conference. 9 

### The Federal Aviation 10 Administration, which I'll hereinafter refer 11 to as the FAA is represented by its Attorney 12 of Record, Mr. Vincent J. Bennett. The 13 Respondent, Baer Air, Inc. is represented by 14 its Attorney of Record, Mr. Jared M. Allen. 15 Good morning, everyone. 16 MR. BENNETT: Good morning, Judge. 17 

### MR. ALLEN: Good morning. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Note that we 19 started late today because of the snafu in my 20 office. Apparently, there was no court 21 reporter hired, or there had been a 22 miscommunicationabout the hiring of the court

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·44334

1 

### reporter this morning. 2 So, we're very grateful to our 3 Court Reporter, Josh Borden, for appearing on 4 

### such short notice. 5 

### I' 11 

### note that prior to today's 6 

### conference, on June 16, 2014, an order 7 

### continuing the originally scheduled Rule 16 8 

### litigation scheduling conference was filed. 9 

### Subsequently on July 2, 2014, an 10 order finding Respondent filed a timely 11 

### request for a hearing and denying FAA's motion 12 to dismiss was filed. 13 

### In addition, I have before me, an 14 Agency and Respondent joint proposed 15 

### litigation schedule that was filed by the 16 parties on approximately June 4, 2014. 17 

### So, I'm going to thank both 18 Counsel for their patience in waiting for this 19 conference to get started. We normally don't 20 have these problems. So, I really appreciate 21 your patience. 22 I think we' 11 

### have a very short

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44335 

### 1 conference, given the work that the Counsel 2 have already done. 3 So, I have the proposed litigation 4 schedule before me, and I have a couple 5 questions to ask, and I'll start with you, Mr. 6 Bennett. 7 You had indicated that you wanted 8 the hearing in Orlando, Florida around the 9 week of March 16, 2015. 10 What I need to know is about how 11 much time do you think the hearing will take, 12 and I'd like you to assume, just for the sake 13 of argument today, that there are all the 14 issues on the table at the date of trial that 15 might appear to be on the table today. 16 Obviously, if some things get 17 resolved between now and the date of the 18 hearing, that will narrow the amount of time 19 the parties have to spend, but I do want to 20 have the largest estimate of time, so that we 21 schedule enough time for the hearing now, in 22 the event that nothing gets resolved.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234·44336

1 So, how much time do you think 2 your presentationof your case in chief would 3 be, just as a general guess? 4 MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, as a 5 general swag, I would assume that I could put 6 my case on probably within six hours, at the 7 very, very longest, and that at most, I don't 8 I would not anticipate that the entire 9 hearing would take anymore than one day, but 10 I would block two. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 12 MR. BENNETT: Just to be on the 13 safe side. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say it 15 would take you only six hours to put on your 16 case, are you talking about just the 17 presentation of your direct exam, or you're 18 including the potential cross-examination of 19 your witnesses? 20 MR. BENNETT: That would be 21 including the cross-exam, as well. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then Mr.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44337 

### 1 Allen, let me turn to you. 2 How much time do you think it 3 would take for the Respondent to present its 4 responsive case, assuming it puts one on? 5 

### MR. ALLEN: Well, Judge, I can say 6 that we probablymost likelywould put one on, 7 and as far as time is concerned, something 8 similar to Mr. Bennett's time estimate, but 9 overall, I would estimate that the three days 10 would probably be a safe assumption, for a 11 full hearing. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 13 Then let me ask a different question. 14 On page 1 of the two-page proposed 15 litigation schedule, under paragraph (b), 16 Motions, you, Mr. Bennett, have indicated on 17 behalf of everyone that all pre-hearing 18 motions needed to be served by January 16, 19 2015, and I have a question about that. 20 Typically, I set up a due date for 21 filing any and all dispositivemotions with an 22 answer date and a reply date, and then I also

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44338 1 set up a telephone conference for argument on 2 dispositive motions. 3 My question is, was it your intent 4 to have all of those motions filed before 5 January 16, 2015, with the telephone hearing 6 occurring about that time, or was this just a 7 general date that you were willing to work 8 with? 9 MR

. BENNETT: Ma'am, it was a 10 general date. I thought that it would provide 11 backing up, if you would please, from our 12 proposed date of mid March. Thirty days prior 13 would give at least

-- that would be February 14 15th, and within the 30 days prior to that, it 15 would give Your Honor time to go ahead and 16 have some flexibility, as to what she wanted 17 to do. 18 So, the January 16th date was what 19 we suggested, so that the schedule would have 20 enough flexibility or be as rigid as you 21 wanted it to be. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44339 

### 1 Allen, would you have anything to add to that? 2 

### MR. ALLEN: No, Your Honor. 3 Respondent wouldn't have any objection to 4 having everything filed by January 16th, and 5 if you would like to have a hearing for those 6 motions on that day or some time in the near 7 future after that date, there would be no 8 objection from the Respondent. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so it 10 sounds like it's a little flexible for you 11 both. 12 Let me tell you a little bit about 13 my schedule. 14 I currently have

-- I'm going to 15 double-check to make sure that I haven't had 16 anything added since I last looked. 17 

### You're right about where I have 18 

### stopped setting trials. I have a trial the 19 week of February 22nd, and then I have a trial 20

-- another trial the week of March 9th through 21 the 13th, and that about ends where I have 22 set.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443310 1 So, let's talk about setting a 2 trial date and then we can back-track and talk 3 about a comfortabletime to be filing motions, 4 and maybe I should talk a little bit about 5 that too. 6 Mr. Bennett, starting with you, 7 and I know that things can change, but just 8 given your general knowledge of the case right 9 now, do you think it's possible that you might 10 be filing dispositive motions, and when I say 11 dispositive motions, I'm talking about a 12 motion for summary judgement, for example. 13 MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, it is 14 possible. I think that the case really is 15 going to be a very simple one. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 17 MR. BENNETT: It will depend on 18 what happens in discovery, but yes, I'd say 19 yes. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 21 MR. BENNETT: If that answers your 22 question, yes, Ma'am.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443311 

### 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 2 In your general experience, once you get a 3 summaryjudgementmotion or once you file one, 4 how much time do you like to have when you 5 want to answer something like that? 6 

### Typically, I give two to three 7 weeks, and then I give a two week window for 8 any reply. 9 Do you have a different time frame 10 that you usually like to work with, or does 11 that sound about right to you? 12 MR. BENNETT: Ma'am, that would be 13 fine. I've seen the judges use anywhere from 14 15 to 30 days, to get a reply in, and then a 15 subsequent response from the Agency, back to 16 them. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, Mr. Allen, 18 how about you? Any comments or a differing 19 opinion? 20 

### MR. ALLEN: No, Your Honor. Two 21 weeks would be acceptable for reply to any 22 sort of dispositivemotion for the Respondent.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443312

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, that's very 2 helpful. Thank you. 3 So, let me take a look, and let's 4 talk about holiday schedules. 5 You're talking about having all 6 discovery completed by December 5, 2014. 7 Typically, it's been my experience 8 that around, I would say December 15th, 9 everyone starts to get very tired and they 10 don't want to do anything but spend some time 11 with their family, and then everyone re12 energizes around January 7th or 8th. 13 If you want to work during the 14 holiday period, I certainly will not stop you 15 from doing that, but I just want to know if 16 either one or both of you have kind of gotten 17 a sense that you would rather just not have a 18 lot of work during that time, and I ask 19 because I used to sit on the Bench in the 20 state where I used to work, and it was pretty 21 quiet over the holidays, no matter whether you 22 wanted to schedule things or not, people just

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443313 

### 1 are not amenable, and that's reasonable. 2 

### So, if you don't want to work 3 during that time frame, I '11 probablypush out 4 a little bit on the January 16th date, but Mr. 5 

### Bennett, I'll start with you. What is your 6 preference? 7 MR. 

### BENNETT: Your Honor, I 

### 8 appreciateyour sensitivitiesto the holidays. 9 My initial thoughts for putting it 10 out on December 5th was that everyone would 11 have gotten over the heavy food from 12 Thanksgiving and might want to get everything 13 done before the Christmas holiday started. 14 I would have no objection at all 15 to pushing this farther off of the holidays. 16 I agree, I don't think anything really is 17 going to get done of significance over the 18 holidays. 19 My wife has already indicated to 20 me for example, that I'd better not be 21 planning on taking anything home because if I 22 do, she won't

-- I will not like the result.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443314

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, that seems 2 clear. 3 MR. BENNETT: So, there was no 4 question, as to what that message was meaning. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, how about 6 you, Mr

. Allen? 7 MR. ALLEN: Respondent would have 8 no objection to amending the dates. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, let me take 10 a look at my calendar, and I'm going to 11 suggest some things to you. 12 So, let's see, and Mr. Court 13 reporter, there is going to be a little bit of 14 silence, but you'll just need to bear with me. 15 (Pause) 16 Okay, how about this. I'm going 17 to suggest this and see what you think. 18 If you want, you can keep your 19 December 5th, 2014 end date for discovery, but 20 you may want to change it a little bit, based 21 on what I'm going to suggest. Maybe not. 22 If we have all dispositive motions

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·443315 1 filed by January 23, 2015, that would put a 2 response date for the responding party, or 3 both, if you both file them, on February 13th, 4 or thereabouts, with a reply due on February 5 27,2015. 6 Then I need to be in town to 7 actually hear motions, so, I'm thinking March 8 17th or March 18th, for the telephone 9 argument, and if there is no dispositive 10 motion, I suppose I should keep them on my 11 calendar and I have them available and I hold 12 them for final pre-hearingstatus conferences, 13 which can be very helpful to the parties and 14 to me, as well. 15 If we do that, then we're talking 16 about setting the matter in late May 2015, and 17 I'm going to explain why. 18 It's been my experience when I do 19 summary judgement motions, that if I don't 20 give myself about a two month window between 21 the date of the oral argument and the date of 22 the hearing, I'm short-cuttir:g everybody,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE

.. NW. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443316 

### 1 including myself. 2 Essentially, I need some time to 3 write the summary judgement order, and those 4 are very time-consuming, as you might imagine, 5 because they can be dispositive. 6 In addition, I want to get it out 7 to you before you have to start putting 8 together all of your hearing materials, and 9 so, if we have at least two months between the 10 oral argument and the hearing, that should 11 give me at least enough time to get that order 12 out and you enough time, so that you don't 13 have to do work that you don't need to do, if 14 in fact, I grant the motion in full or in 15 part. 16 

### So, essentially, what I would do 17 is set the witness

-- exchange of exhibits and 18 witness lists after the oral argument is done, 19 and I'll also set the stipulations or if you 20 have agreed motions in limine you want to do 21 ahead of time. Far enough out after the 22 telephone conference, so that you don't have

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234·4433

### 17 1 to do duplicative or unnecessary work. 2 If you're willing to do that, then 3 you can bump out your December 5, 2014 date or 4 

### keep it the way it is. It just depends on 5 what you think would work for you. 6 

### So, Mr. Bennett, starting with 7 

### you. What is your thought? 8 

### MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, I think 9 that based on your comments, pushing the 10 December 5th date into January would make a 11 tremendous amount of sense. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I don't want you 13 to have to work when you're doing that. I 

### 14 mean, I don't want you to work over the 15 holidays, but if we set, for example, the 16 dispositivedue date for-- I'm sorry, the due 17 date for filing dispositivemotions on January 18 23, 2015, when do you think it would be 19 reasonableand maintaina healthyboundaryfor 20 your holidays, to have your discovery cut-off 21 date, and I could suggest, for example, that 22 you could push it out to say, December 15th

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443318 

### 1 and then just have that time free and know 2 that you're going to come back to the office 3 and either write a summary -- a dispositive 4 motion or not. 5 

### MR. BENNETT: I think December 6 15th is a good date, Your Honor. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, what 8 

### about you? 9 

### MR. ALLEN: Yes, Judge, I would 10 say no later than December 15th would be 11 acceptable. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 13 

### talk about

-- Mr. Bennett, I'll start with 14 you, will January 23rd, February 13th and 15 February 27th, all in the year 2015 work for 16 

### you, in terms of filing deadlines for 17 dispositive motions, responses and replies? 18 

### MR. BENNETT: I'm pulling up a 19 calendar right now, and December 15th, Your 20 Honor, is a Monday? 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: January 23rd. 22 MR. BENNETT: January 23rd is a

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443319 

### 1 Friday? 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. 3 

### MR. BENNETT: The fourth Friday in 4 the month, and that is the

-- probably the 5 

### third Friday after the holiday. That would 6 work very well, I think. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, what about 8 February 13th, which is three weeks beyond 9 

### that, for the response to summaryjudgement or 10 dispositive motions? 11 

### MR. BENNETT: I would have no -- I 12 think that that would be adequate time for the 13 Government to go ahead and form any response 14 that Respondent might choose to go ahead and 15 prepare. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what about 17 the 27th for any final reply, which is a two 18 week gap? 19 

### MR

. BENNETT: And I think that 20 would be an adequate one, as well. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen, 22 how about you? Any concerns, in looking at

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443320 

### 1 your calendar? 2 

### MR. ALLEN: Judge, I am just 3 looking at a calendar and I

-- excuse me, off 4 the top of my head, I don't recall if 5 President's Day is a Federal holiday. I know 6 it falls on the

-- in between the February 7 13th and February 27th date. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: It is the

-- 9 

### MR. ALLEN: I don't know if anyone 10 would lose a day. 11 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: It's February 12 16th, and so, you would lose a day. 13 If you want to push that out until 14 March, we could do that. You're talking about 15 the reply date? 16 MR. ALLEN: Correct, Your Honor. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What day the 18 

### following week, do you think would be 19 reasonable, because I know sometimes people 20 take another day or two around a three-day 21 weekend. 22 

### MR. ALLEN: We are talking then

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS ·1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443321 

### 1 the first week of March, correct? 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. What 3 day would you think would be reasonable for 4 any reply? 5 

### MR. ALLEN: March 3rd, which is a 6 Tuesday, would

-- I would say would provide 7 enough time, Your Honor. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Bennett, is 9 that acceptable to you, as well? 10 MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am, 11 absolutely. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so noted. 13 Then let's talk about settinga telephone time 14 for argument. 15 Looking at the week of March 15, 16 2015, Mr. Bennett, doyouhaveanyparticular 17 black-outs in that week that I should know 18 about? 19 

### MR. BENNETT: None that I am aware 20 of right now, Your Honor. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 22 

### MR. BENNETT: My kids are in

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443322 

### 1 school in May

-- or until May, so, I won't be 2 traveling to go move them out or anything. 3 That happens after finals in May. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 5 

### MR. BENNETT: But March, we're 6 

### clear. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm sorry, I cut 8 

### you off. 9 

### MR. BENNETT: I'm sorry, Your 10 Honor? 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Could you go 12 ahead and say that again, please? 13 

### MR. BENNETT: I have nothing that 14 I'm aware of right now, that would interfere 15 with a -- anything in the week of March 15th. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen, 17 how about you? 18 

### MR. ALLEN: I 

### have all 

### 19 availability of March 15th, Your Honor. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen, 21 stayingwith you, do you have a preference for 22 morning or afternoon? We're talking about 90

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·443323 

### 1 minutes on your calendar. 2 

### MR. ALLEN: Afternoon, Judge. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. 4 Bennett, is that acceptable to you? 5 

### MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 7 talk about Thursday, March 19, 2015, and let's 8 say 1:30 to 3:00p.m., EasternStandardTime, 9 and I think both of you are on the east coast. 10 So, that should work out beautifully. 11 

### So, now, let's go into May and Mr. 12 Bennett, let's start with you in terms of 13 school schedules, because I don't want to 14 interfere with that, if at all possible, and 15 I know we also have a federal holiday the week 16 of May 24th, and that would be on May 25th, 17 2015 for Memorial Day. 18 

### So, we're looking at scheduling 19 three days in Orlando, Florida, and then for 20 all of us, we have some travel time to 21 consider as well. 22 Do you want to look at the end of

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443324 

### 1 May or do you want to look at the first week 2 of June? What's your preference? 3 

### MR. BENNETT: I don't know what 4 the schools are using right now to pull the 5 kids out. 6 I do know from this year, that for 7 example, my son is going to Loyola, was given 8 24 hours to get out. 9 

### So, if that becomes a hard and 10 fast date, if Your Honor, wouldn't mind, I 11 would suggest that we tentatively set it for 12 that last week in May. Finals have got to be 13 done well before then, I would think, and that 14 will give us the maximum gives me the 15 maximum flexibility. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well, I 17 actually don't have enough time the week of 18 May 25th, because of the holiday and what I'm 19 doing. 20 So, I can do it 21 MR. BENNETT: The week of the 22 18th?

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443325

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### I 'm looking to 2 see if that would work. The 18th? I could do 3 it the week of May 17th or I could do it the 4 week of June 1st, and we could make it 5 tentative and then if something comes up, you 6 know, and you can let us know, do you think 7 you would be able to let us know fairly soon, 8 Mr. Bennett? I don't want everyone to, you 9 know, get all their witnesses excitedand then 10 find out that we have to change. 11 

### MR. BENNETT : Yes, Ma'am. I'm 

### 12 trying to find out right now, what the 13 schedule looks like. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### Okay. You know 15 what we could do, because I know you all have 16 been on the phone for a while, we could choose 17 one of these weeks and then Mr. Bennett, if 18 you find out something different, you could 19 talk to Mr. Allen and then call Mr. Smith, the 20 attorney who assists me, and if we needed to 21 tweak the trial date a little bit, we could 22 probably do that within the next 30 days.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443326 

### 1 Would that work okay? 2 

### MR. BENNETT: Well, I just found 3 out that they don't have an exam schedule 4 published yet for Spring 2015. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 6 

### MR. BENNETT: So, that becomes 7 slightly problematic. I know that this year, 8 the exam schedule was -- wait a minute. Let 9 me look at

-- maybe I can get one here. 10 So, I'd be-- May 2nd looks like11

- all right, so, it's going to be an early 12 year. 13 We can do it earlier in May than 14 that last week, the week of the 18th would be 15 fine. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, would 17 that work for you? 18 MR. ALLEN: The week of May 18th 19 would work for us, Judge. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 21 try for May 19th. That's the first day. That 22 would be May 19th, 2015, and that's a Tuesday,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443327 

### 1 leavingMonday to be a travel day, if you need 2 it, and we'll continue on May 20, 2015, and 3 May 21, 2015, ending at 5:00p.m. If we need 4 that third day, we have Friday the 22nd of May 5 2015 as another travel day. 6 

### Typically, Counsel, I 

### usually 7 start at 9:00a.m. and I go to 5:00p.m., with 8 a one hour and 15 minute lunch break, and then 9 I always take a break in the morning for about 10 15 minutes and a break in the afternoon, so 11 that you can count on those times. 12 Whenever, possible, I do try and 13 get a U.S. District Court Courtroom, so that 14 we have as much space as possible, and also, 15 whenever possible, I try and get counsel and 16 

### chambers, as well. But sometimes, not quite 17 as successful with that because space is such 18 a premium now in the courthouses. 19 Let's talk about, just for a 20 moment, exchange of exhibits and list of 21 witnesses. 22 So, we're going to have our oral

NEAL R. GROSS (202)**234~4433** COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C.**20005~3701** (202)**234~4433**28 

### 1 argument on March 19, 2015, and I'm going to 2 back-track from May 19th into April. 3 How about if we set April 21, 2015 4 for your due date for your witness list and 5 

### exhibits? Would that work for you, Mr. 6 Bennett? 7 

### MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Allen? 9 

### MR. ALLEN: Yes, that works, 10 Judge. 11 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and I would 12 also set that same date, give you a chance to 13 submit any written stipulations or agreed 14 motions in limine, where you are narrowingthe 15 factual and legal issues, so that if you 16 decide, for example, that there are certain 17 underlying facts that no one is disputing and 18 you just want to make sure that they're all 19 agreed to and adopted by the Court, you can 20 submit those by agreement ahead of time. 21 Okay, let's talk about a couple 22 other things.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443329 

### 1 I have no problem with your 2 recommendationabout the exhibits and how you 3 

### want to mark them. That's great. 4 I would simply also add that I do 5 need to have you each provide an index list of 6 your exhibits, so that I have one or two 7 sheets in front of me, and hopefully, you 8 would have the same for yourself, and I can 9 keep track of what exhibits have been moved 10 for admission, what exhibits have been ruled 11 upon or not ruled upon, what exhibits were 12 never mentioned and so forth. 13 At the end of the hearing, if you 14 have had exhibits that you brought with you 15 that have not been moved for admission, I'll 16 

### offer them back to you. If you don't want 17 them, I'll simplyput them in the recycle bin. 18 Obviously, I shouldn't be taking 19 or looking at exhibits that you have decided 20 not to use. 21 In terms of motions, and I'll send 22 out an order that says all of this and a

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443330 

### 1 little bit more, but you want to file your 2 motions, if you have problems with discovery, 3 

### as soon as possible. Always include a 4 declaration, a 3-7 Declarationabout trying to 5 resolve the matter before bringing it to the 6 Court's attention. 7 I don't need to see any of your 8 discoveryexchange, unless it becomes an issue 9 of contention and you're moving for relief, 10 because of the discovery problem. 11 I do also offer, if people want, a 12 due date for disclosing retained or hired or 13 expert witnesses. So, if you would like me to 14 

### add in a deadline for a part for the 15 parties to exchange those names on a specific 16 date, I can do that. Otherwise, I will leave 17 it up to you, to decide when to do it during 18 your discovery flow. 19 Mr. Bennett, any preference? 20 

### MR. BENNETT: None for the Agency, 21 Your Honor. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### Mr. Allen, any

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443331 

### 1 preference? 2 MR. 

### ALLEN: No preference, Your 3 Honor. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, why don't I 5 give you a due date then, just to be on the 6 safe side? This would be for either experts 7 a party hires or experts that are within the 8 FAA, 

### that the FAA 

### utilizes on a regular basis 9 

### to provide expert testimony. 10 Prior to December 15, 2014, when 11 do you want to have that disclosure, and this 12 would include the name of the witness, the 13 resume of the person and their written report 14 or statement. 15 MR. 

### BENNETT: Their statement of 16 opinions, as to what they're going to testify 17 to? 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. 19 MR. 

### BENNETT: The 15th is-- let's 20 see, we're going to go ahead and set

-- how 21 about on the 15th when discovery closes? 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, typically,

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443332 

### 1 people may want to have a deposition, take a 2 

### deposition of a disclosed expert. So, you 3 want to do it prior to December 15th, which is 4 the deadline for completing your general 5 discovery. 6 

### MR. BENNETT : Jared, would you 7 have any problem arranging for a deposition 8 within two weeks of notification of that? 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I would 10 simply note that if you want to consult with 11 Counsel, I'd be happy to allow you to. 12 Mr. Allen, would you answer that 13 question, please? 14 

### MR. ALLEN: Just given the time of 15 year, YourHonor, itwouldconcernme, as far 16 as scheduling depositions right around

-- in 17 the weeks following December 15th. 18 So, I would agree with Your Honor, 19 in that we might want to have a date that is 20 perhaps several weeks before December 15th. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: May I make a 22 

### suggestion to you? If you have that

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443333 

### l disclosure by say, October 22nd, you should 2 have plenty of time, even with Thanksgiving 3 and Veteran's holiday, to do a deposition if 4 needed. 5 Mr. Bennett, would that work for 6 

### you? 7 

### MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am, and I 8 

### apologize, I did not mean to overstep my 9 bounds in asking the question directly of Mr. 10 Allen. ll JUDGE SULLIVAN: No, I understand, 12 it

-- we're having a conversation and people 13 

### forget. So, don't worry about that. 14 Mr. Allen, any objection to 15 October 22, 2014? 16 

### MR. ALLEN: No objection, Your 17 Honor. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I'll set 19 that as a due date, as well. 20 Now, I'll include in the order 21 that I send out to you, notes about how to 22 request modificationof the order, if there is

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-443334 1 a problem. I also have a section about 2 attorney withdraw, so that it's clear that if 3 an attorneywishes to withdraw, and obviously, 4 this would be specificallyto the Respondent's 5 Counsel, how to go about doing that. 6 Then hopefully, anything else that 7 might come up, frequently asked questions, I 8 try and address in the order, as well. 9 Mr. Bennett, on behalf of your 10 client, at this time, however, is there 11 anything else that you need to ask or clarify, 12 before we close today? 13 MR. BENNETT: No, Your Honor. 14 Thank you. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. 16 Mr. Allen, on behalf of your client, anything 17 you would need to clarify or ask about for 18 your client? 19 MR. ALLEN: Nothing further, 20 Judge

. Thank you. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you 22 both very much for your presence today and for

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234·443335 

### 1 your work, in setting this up. 2 

### I will send out an order, either 3 today or tomorrow, at the very latest, and I 4 look forward to talking to you in the new 5 year, and with that, or earlier, if you call 6 upon me. 7 

### (Whereupon, the above-entitled 8 matter went off the record at 11:20 a.m.) 9 

### 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 

### 20 21 22

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433A a.m 1:13 3:2 27:7

35:8 able25:7 above-entitled35:7 absolntely21:11 acceptable 11:21 18:11 21:923:4 add9:129:430:14 added9:16 addition4:13 16:6 address34:8 adeqnate 1 9:12,20 Administration2:8

3:10 Administrative 1:19 admission29:10,15 adopted28:19 afternoon22:22

23:2 27:10 Agency4:14 11:15

30:20 agree 13:16 32:18 agreed 16:20 28:13

28:19 agreement28:20 ahead8:15 16:21 19:13,1422:12 28:20 31:20 Air 1:5 3:4,13 Allen2:173:14,17

7:1,5 9:1,211:17 11:20 14:6,7 18:7 18:9 19:21 20:2,9 20: 16,22 21:5 22:16,18,2023:2 25:1926:16,18 28:8,930:22 31:2 32:12,14 33:10,14 33:16 34:16,19 allow32:11 amenable 13:1 amending 14:8 AMERICA!:! amount5:18 17:11 Annapolis2:18,20

202-234-4433 answer7:22 11 :5 32:12 answers 10:21 anticipate6:8 anymore6:9 apologize33:8 Apparently3:20 appear5:15 APPEARANCES

2:3 appearing4:3 appreciate4:20 13:8 approximately

4:16 April28:2,3 argument5:13 8:1

15:9,21 16:10,18 21:1428:1 arranging32:7 asked34:7 asking33:9 assists25:20 assume5:12 6:5 assuming7:4 assumption7:10 attention30:6 attorney3:11,14

25:20 34:2,3 availability22:19 available 15:11 Aviation2:8 3:9 aware21:1922:14 B b7:15 back11:1518:2

29:16 back-track 10:2

28:2 backing8:11 Baer1:5 3:4,13 based 14:20 17:9 basis31:8 bear 14:14 beautifully23:10 behalf2:5,15 7:17

34:9,16 Bench12:19 Bennett2:7 3:12,16

5:6 6:4,12,20 7:16 8:910:6,13,17,21 11:1213:5,714:3 17:6,818:5,13,18 18:2219:3,11,19 21:8,10,16,19,22 22:5,9,13 23:4,5 23:1224:3,21 25:8,11'1726:2,6 28:6,730:19,20 31:15,19 32:6 33:5,734:9,13 Bennett's7:8 better 13:20 beyond 19:8 bin29:17 bit9:12 10:413:4 14:13,2025:21 30:1 black-outs21:17 block6:10 Borden4:3 boundary 17:19 bounds33:9 break27:8,9,10 bringing30:5 brought29:14 bump 17:3 Burlington2:11 

### c calendar 14:10 15:1118:1920:1 20:3 23:1 call25:19 35:5 case6:2,6,16 7:4 10:8,14 certain28:16 certainly 12:14 chambers27:16 chance28:12 change 10:7 14:20

25:10 chief6:2 choose 19:1425:16 Christmas 13:13 clarify34:11,17 clear 14:222:6

34:2 client34:10,16,18 close34:12 closes31:21 coast23:9 come 18:2 34:7 comes25:5 comfortable 10:3 comments 11:18 17:9 Complainant2:5 completed 12:6 completing32:4 concern32:15 concerned7:7 concerns 19:22 conference3:8 4:6

4:8,19 5:1 8:1 16:22 conferences 15:12 consider23:21 consult32:10 contention30:9 continue27:2 continuing4:7 convened 1:12 3:7 conversation33:12 correct 19:220:16

21:1,2 31:18 counsel2:94:18

5:1 27:6,15 32:11 34:5 count27:11 couple5:4 28:21 court3:20,224:3

14:12 27:13 28:19 Court's30:6 courthouses27:18 Courtroom27:13 cross-exam6:21 cross-examination

6:18 currently9:14 cut22:7 cut-off17:20

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Washington DC Page 36 D date5:14,177:20

7:22,22 8:7,10,12 8:18 9:710:2 13:4 14:19 15:2 15:21,21 17:3,10 17:16,17,21 18:6 20:7,15 24:10 25:21 28:4,I2 30:12,1631:5 32:19 33:19 dates 14:8 day6:9 9:6 20:5,10

20:12,17,2021:3 23:1726:21 27: I 27:4,5 days7:9 8:12,14 11:1423:1925:22 deadline30:14

32:4 deadlines 18:16 December 12:6,8 13:10 14:1917:3 17:10,22 18:5,10 18:1931:10 32:3 32:17,20 decide28:16 30:17 decided29:19 declaration30:4,4 denying4:11 DEPARTMENT 1:1 depend 10:17 depends 17:4 deposition32:I,2,7

33:3 depositions32:16 different7:13 11:9

25:18 differing 11: 1 8 direct6:17 directly33:9 disclosed32:2 disclosing30:12 disclosure31:11

33:1 discovery 10:18

www.nealrgross.comPage 37 12:6 14:1917:20 29:9,10,11,14,19 forget33:13 hard24:9 issue30:8 30:2,8,10,18 experience 11:2 form 19:13 head20:4 issues5:14 28:15 31:21 32:5 12:715:18 forth29:12 healthy17:19 dismiss4:12 expert30:13 31:9 forward35:4 hear 15:7 J

---- dispositive7:21 8:2 32:2 found26:2 hearing4:11 5:8,II J3:12 10:10,1111:22 experts31:6,7 fourth 19:3 5:18,216:97:11 J.E 1:18 14:2215:916:5 explain 15:17 frame 1I:9 13:3 8:5 9:5 15:22 January7:18 8:5 17:16,1718:3,17 free 18:1 16:8,1029:13 8:18 9:4 12:12 19:10 F frequently34:7 HEARINGSI:2 13:4 15:1 17:10 disputing28:17 FAA3:11 31:8,8 Friday19:1,3,5 heavy 13:11 17:1718:14,21,22 District27:13 FAA's4:11 27:4 helpfull2:2 15:13 Jared2:17 3:14 Docket3:5 FAA-2014-0112 front29:7 hereinafter3: I0 32:6 doing 12:15 17:13 1:5 3:5 full7:11 16:14 hired3:21 30:12 joint4:14

24:19 34:5 fact 16:14 further34:I 9 hires31:7 Josh4:3 double-check9: I5 facts28:17 future9:7 hiring3:22 Judge 1:19 3:3,16 due7:20 15:4 17:16 factual28:15 hold 15:11 3:18 6:11,14,22 17:16 28:4 30:12 fairly25:7

- ---- G holiday 12:4,14 7:5,12 8:22 9:9 31:5 33:19 falls20:6 gap 19:18 13:13 19:5 20:5 10:16,2011:1,17 duplicative 17: I family 12:11 general6:3,5 8:7 23:15 24:18 33:3 12:1 14:1,5,9

--- far7:716:21 32:15 8:1010:811:2 holidays 12:21 13:8 17:12 18:7,9,12 E farther 13:15 32:4 13:15,1817:15,20 18:21 19:2,7,16 earlier26:13 35:5 fast24:10 give8:13,15 11:6,7 home 13:21 19:21 20:2,8,11 early26:11 FDMS 1:4 15:20 16:1124:14 Honor6:4 8:15 9:2 20:1721:2,8,12 east23:9 February8:13 9:19 28:12 31:5 10:13 11:20 13:7 21:21 22:4,7,11 Eastern23:8 15:3,4 18:14,15 giveu5:110:824:7 17:8 18:6,20 22:16,2023:2,3,6 either 12:16 18:3 19:8 20:6,7,11 32:14 20:1621:7,20 24:1625:1,14

31:6 35:2 federal2:8 3:9 20:5 gives24:14 22:10,1924:10 26:5,16,19,20 ends9:21 23:15 go8:15 19:13,14 30:21 31:3 32:15 28:8,10,11 30:22 energizes 12:12 file 11:3 15:3 30:1 22:2,11 23:11 32:18 33:17 34:13 31:4,18,22 32:9 England2: 10 filed4:8,I0,12,15 27:7 31:20 34:5 HONORABLE 32:21 33:11,18 entire6:8 8:4 9:4 15:1 going4:179:14 1:18 34:15,20,21 ESQ2:7,17 filing7:2110:3,10 10:15 13:1714:10 hopefully29:7 34:6 judgement10:12 essentially 16:2,16 17:17 18:16 14:13,16,2115:17 hour27:8 11:3 15:19 16:3 estimate5:20 7:8,9 final15:12 19:17 18:224:726:11 hours6:6,1524:8 19:9 event5:22 finals22:3 24:12 27:2228:1 31:16 judges 11:13 everybody 15:22 find25:10,12,18 31:20 I JulyI:8 3:64:9 exam6:1726:3,8 finding4:10 good3:15,16,17 imagine 16:4 Jnne4:6,1624:2 example 10:12 fine 11:13 26:15 18:6 include30:3 31:12 25:4 13:20 17:15,21 first21:1 24:1 gotten 12:16 13:11 33:20

- ---·- 24:728:16 26:21 Government19:13 including6:18,21 K exchange2:18 flexibility 8:16,20 grant 16:14 16:1 keep 14:18 15:10 16:17 27:20 30:8 24:15 grateful4:2 index29:5 17:429:9 30:15 flexible9:10 great29:3 indicated5:7 7:16 kids21:22 24:5 excited25:9 Florida5:8 23:19 guess6:3 13:19 kind 12:16 excuse20:3 11ow30:18 initia113:9 know5:10 10:7 Executive2:10 following20:18 H intent8:3 12:15 18:1 20:5,9

---------- exhibits 16:17 32:17 happens 10:1822:3 interfere22:14 20:1921:17 23:15

27:20 28:5 29:2,6 food 13:11 happy32:11 23:14 24:3,625:6,6,7,9

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Washington DC www.nealrgross.com25:14,15 26:7 knowledge 10:8

----- largest5:20 Iate3:19 15:16 latest35:3 Law 1:19 leave30:16 leaving27:I lega128:15 let's 10:1 12:3 14:1218:1221:13 23:6,7,11,12 26:2027:19 28:21 31:19 limine 16:2028:14 list27:20 28:429:5 lists 16:18 litigation3:8 4:8,15

5:3 7:15 little9:10,12 10:4 13:4 14:13,20 25:21 30:1 longest6:7 look 12:3 14:10

23:2224:1 26:9 35:4 looked9:16 looking 19:22 20:3

21:15 23:1825:1 29:19 looks25:13 26:10 lose20:10,12 lot 12:18 Loyola24:7 lunch27:8
M3:14 MA2:11M

Ma'am8:9 10:22 11:12 21:10 23:5 25: II 28:7 33:7 maintain 17:19 March5:9 8:12

9:20 15:7,8 20:14 21:1,5,15 22:5,15

202-234-4433 22:19 23:728:1 mark29:3 materials 16:8 matter I:4 3:4

12:21 15:16 30:5 35:8 maximum24:14,15 MD2:20 mean 17:14 33:8 meaning 14:4 Memoria123:17 mentioned29:12 message 14:4 mid 8:12 mind24:10 minute26:8 27:8 minutes23:127:10 miscommunicati

...

3:22 modification33:22 moment27:20 Monday 18:2027:1 month 15:20 19:4 months 16:9 morning3:15,16

3:174:1 22:22 27:9 motion4:1110:12 11:3,22 15:10 16:1418:4 motions7:16,18,21

8:2,4 9:6 I0:3,10 10:11 14:22 15:7 15:1916:2017:17 18:1719:1028:14 29:21 30:2 move22:2 moved29:9,15 moving30:9 N name31:12 names30:15 narrow5:18 narrowing28:14 near9:6 nced5:10 14:14

15:6 16:2,13 27:1 27:3 29:5 30:7 34:11,17 needed7:18 25:20

33:4 never29:12 new2:1035:4 normally4:19 note3:184:5 32:10 noted21:12 notes33:21 notice 1:13 4:4 notification32:8

----------- 0 objection9:3,8 13:14 14:8 33:14 33:16 obviously5:16

29:18 34:3 occurring8:6 October33:1,15 offcr29:16 30:11 office 1:22:9 3:20

18:2 okay6:11,22 7:12

8:22 9:9 10:16,20 11:112:1 14:5,9 14:16 18:12 19:7 19:2121:12,21 22:4,16,2023:3,6 24:16 25:14 26:1 26:2028:11,21 31:4 33:18 34:21 once II:2,3 opinion 11:19 opinions31:16 orall5:21 16:10,18

27:22 order4:6,10 16:3 16:11 29:22 33:20 33:22 34:8 35:2 originally4:7 Orlando5:8 23:19 overall7:9 overstep33:8 p P-R-0-C-E-E-D-

... 3:1 p.m23:8 27:3,7 page7:14 paragraph7:15 Park2:10 Parkway2:1 8 part16:15 30:14 particular21:16 parties3:74:16

5:19 15:13 30:15 party15:2 31:7 patience4:18,21 Pause 14:15 people 12:2220:19

30:11 32:1 33:12 period 12:14 person31:13 phone25:16 planning13:21 please8:11 22:12

32:13 plenty33:2 possible I0:9,14

23:1427:12,14,15 30:3 potential6:18 pre-hearing7:17 15:12 preference 13:6

22:21 24:2 30:19 31:1,2 premium27:18 prepare19:15 presence34:22 present7:3 presentation6:2,17 President's20:5 pretty12:20 prior4:5 8:12,14

31:10 32:3 probably6:6 7:6

7:10 13:3 19:4 25:22 problem29:I

30:10 32:7 34:1 Page 38 proposed4:145:3

7:14 8:12 provide8:10 21:6

29:531:9 published26:4 pull24:4 pulling 18:18 pursuant1:13 push 13:3 17:22

20:13 pushing 13:15 17:9 put6:5,15 7:615:1

29:17 puts7:4 putting 13:9 16:7

. - ___ _.QL_

__ question7:13,19

8:3 10:22 14:4 32:13 33:9 questions5:5 34:7 quiet 12:21 quite27:16 R really4:20 I0:14 13:16 reasonable 13:I 17:1920:1921:3 recall20:4 recommendation

29:2 record3:4,12,14

35:8 recycle29:17 refer3:10 Regiona12:9 regular31:8 relief30:9 replies 18:17 reply7:22 11:8,14 11:21 15:4 19:17 20:15 21:4 report3I:13 reporter3:21 4:I,3 14:13 problematic26:7 problems4:20 30:2 represented3:11 3:13
Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Washington DC www.nealrgross.comPage 39 request4:ll 33:22 set7:20 8:I 9:22 stopped9:I8 tentative25:5 tomorrow35:3 resolve30:5 16:17,1917:15 submit28:13,20 tentatively24:11 top20:4 resolved 5:I7,22 24:11 28:3,12 subsequent11:15 terms 18:16 23:12 town 15:6 Respondent 1:6 31:20 33:18 Subsequently4:9 29:21 track29:9

2:15 3:13 4:10,14 setting9:18 I0:I successful27:17 testify31:16 TRANSPORT A,, 7:3 9:3,8 11:22 15:1621:13 35:1 suggest 14:11,17,21 testimony31:9 1:I 14:7 19:14 sheets29:7 17:2124:11 thauk4:177:12 travel23:2027:1,5 Respondent's34:4 short4:4,22 suggested8:19 11:112:234:14 traveling22:2 responding 15:2 short-cutting 15:22 suggestion32:22 34:20,21 tremendous 17: 11 response 11:15 side6:13 31:6 Suite2:19 Thanksgiving trial5:149:18,19 15:2 19:9,13 significance 13:I 7 SULLIVANI:18 13:1233:2 9:20 10:225:21 responses 18:17 silence 14:14 3:3,18 6:11,14,22 thereabouts 15:4 trials9:18 responsive7:4 similar7:8 7:12 8:22 9:9 things5:16 10:7 try26:21 27:12,15 result 13:22 simple 10:15 10:16,2011:1,17 12:22 14:11 28:22 34:8 resume3I: 13 simply29:4,17 12:1 14:1,5,9 think4:22 5:11 6:1 trying25:1230:4 retained30:12 32:10 17:12 18:7,12,21 7:210:9,1413:16 Tuesday21:6 right9:17 10:8 sit 12:19 19:2,7,16,2120:8 14:17 17:5,8,18 26:22 11:1118:1921:20 six6:6,15 20:11,1721:2,8 18:5 19:6,12,19 turn7:I 22:1424:425:12 slightly26:7 21:12,21 22:4,7 20:18 21:3 23:9 tweak25:21 26:11 32:16 Smith25:I 9 22:11,16,2023:3 24:13 25:6 two6:10 11:6,7,20 rigid8:20 snafu3:19 23:6 24:1625:1 thinking 15:7 15:2016:919:17 Rule4:7 son24:7 25:14 26:5,16,20 third 19:5 27:4 20:2029:6 32:8 ruled29:10,11 soon25:7 30:3 28:8,11 30:22 Thirty8:12 two-page7:14 

## s sorry 17:16 22:7,9 31:4,18,2232:9 thought8:10 17:7 typically7:20 II:6 sort 11:22 32:21 33:11,18 thoughts 13:9 12:727:6 31:22 safe6:13 7:10 31:6 sound 11:II 34:15,21 three7:9 II:6 19:8

-- sake5:12 sonnds9:10 summaryI0:12 23:19 

### u says29:22 space27:14,17 11:3 15:1916:3 three-day20:20 U,S27:13 schedule4:15 5:4 specific30:15 18:3 19:9 Thursday23:7 underlying28:17

5:21 7:15 8:19 specitically34:4 suppose 15:10 time5:II,18,20,21 understand33:II 9:13 12:2225:13 spend5:19 12:I0 sure9:15 28:18 6:1 7:2,7,8 8:6,15 UNITED 1:1 26:3,8 Spring26:4 swag6:5 9:6 10:3 11:4,9 unnecessary 17:I scheduled4:7 Standard23:8

-- 12:10,1813:3 useII:13 29:20 schedules 12:4 start5:5 13:5 16:7 T 16:2,11,12,21 usually 11:1027:6

23:13 18:13 23:1227:7 table5:14,15 18:1 19:1221:7 utilizes31:8 scheduling3:8 4:8 started3:194:19 take5:11 6:9,15 21:13 23:8,20

23:18 32:16 13:13 7:3 12:3 14:9 24:17 28:2032:14 

### v schoo122:1 23:13 starting10:6 17:6 20:2027:9 32:1 33:2 34:10 Veteran's33:3 schools24:4 starts 12:9 talk 10:1,2,4 12:4 time-consuming Vincent2:7 3:12 section34:I state 12:20 18:13 21:13 23:7 16:4 

### w see 14:12,1725:2 statement31:14,15 25:19 27:1928:21 timely4:I0 ----

30:7 31 :20 STATES 1:1 talking6:16 I0:II times27:11 wait26:8 seen 11:13 status 15:12 12:5 15:1520:14 tired 12:9 waiting4:18 send29:21 33:21 staying22:21 20:22 22:22 35:4 today3:6,195:13 want5:19 11:5

35:2 stipulations 16:19 teleconference 1:12 5:15 34:12,22 12:10,13,15 13:2 sense 12:17 17:11 28:13 telephone3:7 8:1,5 35:3 13:12 14:18,20 sensitivities 13:8 stop 12:14 15:8 16:2221:13 today's4:5 16:6,20 17:12,14 served7:18 te119:12 20:13 23:13,22

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Washington DC www.nealrgross.com24:1 25:8 28:18 29:3,16 30:1,11 31:1132:1,3,10 32:19 wanted5:7 8:16,21 12:22 way 17:4 we'll4:2227:2 we're3:3 4:215:15

22:5,2223:18 27:22 31:20 33:12 Wednesday 1:8 3:6 week5:99:19,20 11:719:1820:18 21:1,15,1722:15 23:15 24:1,12,17 24:21 25:3,4 26:14,14,18 weekend20:21 weeks11:7,2119:8

25:1732:8,17,20 welcome34:15 went35:8 wife 13:19 willing8:7 17:2 window 11:7 15:20 wishes34:3 withdraw34:2,3 witness 16:17,18

28:431:12 witnesses6:19 25:9

27:21 30:13 workS:! 8:7 11:10 12:13,18,20 13:2 16:13 17:1,5,13 17:14 18:15 19:6 23:10 25:2 26:1 26:17,19 28:5 33:5 35:1 works28:9 worry33:13 wouldn't9:3 24:I0 write 16:3 18:3 written28:13

31:13 X

202-234-4433 y year 18:15 24:6

26:7,1232:I 5 35:5 

## z 214012:20 2233:15 22nd9:19 27:4

33:1 2315:1 17:18 238-70402:12 0 __ 23rd 18:14,21,22 2424:8 018032:11 24th23:16 1 ... 25th23:1624:18 2715:5 17:14 1:3023:8 10:461:13 3:2 11:2035:8 122:10 13th9:21 15:3

18:14 19:8 20:7 1511:1421:15 27:8

27:10 31:10 15th8:14 12:8

17:22 18:6,10,19 22:15,19 31:19,21 32:3,17,20 164:6,75:9 7:18

8:5 16th8:18 9:4 13:4

20:12 17th 15:8 25:3 18th 15:8 24:22

25:2 26:14,18 1923:728:1 19972:18 19th26:21,2228:2 1st25:4
24:9 2027:2 2

2014 1:8 3:6 4:6,9

4:1612:614:19 17:3 31:10 33:15 20155:9 7:19 8:5 15:1,5,1617:18 18:15 21:1623:7 23:1726:4,22 27:2,3,5 28:1,3 2127:328:3 27th 18:1519:17 20:7 294-85502:21 2nd26:10
3-730:4 3:0023:83

30 8:14 11:1425:22 3002:19 301 2:21 3rd21:5 4 44:16 5 5 12:6 17:3 5:0027:3,7 5th 13:1014:19 17:10

7812:12 7th 12:12
8th 12:126 7

8

9

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. Washington DC Page 40

www.nealrgross.com41
C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Baer Air, Inc.

Before: US DOT/FAA

Date: 07-09-14

Place: Washington, DC

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202) 234-4433 Court Reporter

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com