1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9:03 a.m. to 8 p.m. 12



### Tuesday, July 29 , 201 4 13

14



### Room A 15



### OMNI Hotel 16



### 100 CNN Center 17


### Atlanta, Georgia 30303 18

19

20

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### EPA PANEL 1: 1



### HEATHER McTEER TONEY, Pane l 1 Chair; and 2


### Regional Administrator, Region 4 , EPA 3



### NICK HUTSON, Technical Lead, 4



### Office of Air and Radiation, Headquarters, EPA 5


### JEANEANNE GETTLE, Deputy Director, 6



### Air, Pesticides and Toxics Management Division, 7


### Region 4 , EPA 8

9



### EPA PANEL 2: 10



### FRED THO MPSON, Panel 2 Chair; and 11



### Associate Division Director, 12


### Sectors Policies and Programs Division, 13


### Air Quality Planning and Standards, EPA 14



### NICK HUTSON, Technical Lead, 15


### Office of Air and Radiation, Headquarters, EPA 16



### JULIA MILLER , Energy Efficiency Exper t, 17


### Office of Air and Radiation, Headquarters, EPA 18

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### EPA PANEL 3: 1



### HEATHER McTEER TONEY, Panel 1 Chair; and 2


### Regional Administrator, Region 4 , EPA 3


### JULIA MILLER, Energy Efficiency Expert
, 4


### Office of Air and Radiation, Headquarters, EPA 5



### CAROL KEMKER, Dep uty Director, 6



### Air, Pesticides and Toxics Management Division
, 7


### Region 4 , EPA 8

9

10

11

12

13

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15

16

17

18

19

20

21

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### MORNING SESSION 3



### DON PARSONS, 4


### Georgia State Repr esentative, Cobb County 2 4 5



### CHUCK MARTIN, 6


### Georgia State Repres entative, 49th District 2 9 7



### BLAINE GALLIHER, Senior Advisor, 8



### Office of Governor of Alabama 3 5 9



### JEREMY ODEN, 10



### Alabama Public Service Commissioner 4 1 11



### STEPHEN A. SMITH, Executive Director, 12


### Southern Alliance for Clean Energy 4 7 13



### FLACO ALEMAN , Execu tive Director, 14


### Kentucky Jobs with Justice 5 3 15



### LUTHER STRANGE, Alabama Attorney General 5 8 16



### LYLE LANSDELL **,** 17



### Sustainable Farmer in Sandersville, Georgia 6 3 18



### HOWARD J. FELDMAN, 19



### American Petroleum Institute 6 6 20



### LEE BO ONE, Chairman, 21



### Heard County Board of Commissioners 7 1 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### MORNING SE SS ION (continued) 3



### TIM ECHOLS, Commissioner, 4


### Georgia Public Service Commission 7 6 5



### JOHN NOE L, President, 6



### SACE Board of Directors 8 1 7


### LUIS MARTINEZ, Senior Attorney, 8



### National Resources Defense Council 8 6 9



### ROBERT STAMPER , Concerned Citizen 9 1 10



### C LAUDIA HANES, Concerned Citizen from Kentucky 9 4 11



### ASHTEN BAI LEY, Staff Attorney, Greenlaw 9 7 12


### DAREL PREBLE, Space Solar Power Institute 10 3 13



### ANNE MELLINGER

- BIRDSONG, M.D., Pediatrician 10 6 14



### ROBY GREENWALD, 15



### Rollins School of Public Health, 16


### Emory University 11 3 17



### BENTON WISLINSK I, Director, 18


### Conservation Advocacy for the South Carolina 19



### Wildlife Federation 11 9 20



### BRANDON PRESLEY, Commissioner, 21


### Mississippi Public Service Commission 12 4 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### MORNING SESSION (continued) 3


### JIM JESS, Vice President, Georgia Tea Party 1 30 4



### ROBERT KAPPELMANN, 5


### Florida Municipal Electric Association 13 6 6


### COURTNEY HANSON, Director of Organizing, 7


### Georgia Women's Action for New Directions 1 40 8



### BARB ARA ANTONOPLOS, Concerned Citizen 14 5 9



### ADRIANNA QUINTERO , Senior Attorney, 10



### Natural Resources Defense Council; and 11



### Founder/Director of Voces Verdes 1 50 12



### REV. ALEXIS CHASE, 13


### Vicar of Holy Comforter Episcopal Church 15 6 14



### JENNIFER RENNI CKS, Concerned Citizen 1 60 15


### MARILYN BROWN, Professor of Public Policy, 16


### Georgia Institute of Technology; and 17


### Director, Climate and Energy Policy Lab 16 5 18



### DENNIS CREECH, Executive Director, 19


### Southface Energy Institute 16 9 20



### DAV ID HAYES, Concerned Citizen from Tennessee 17 4 21



### ARTHUR G IBERT, Concerned Citizen from Georgia 17 6 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### MORNING SESSION (continued) 3


### SARAH LYNN CUNNINGHAM, Environmental Engineer 1 80 4



### GLE NN CARROLL, Nuclear Watch South 18 5 5

6



### AFTERNOON SESSION 7



### TWINKLE ANDRESS CAVANAUGH, President 8



### Alabama Public Service Commission 19 6 9



### LANE BOLDMAN, 10


### Kentucky Environmental Foundation 200 11



### VICKIE TERRY, 12



### Concerned Citizen from Tennessee 20 6 13



### DR. MAEVE HOWETT, Clinical Associate Professor, 14


### Emory University 2 1 2 15



### REV. KATE McGREGOR MOSLEY, 16



### Interim Executive Director, 17


### Georgia Interfaith Power & Light 21 4 18



### MICHAEL MIGLIACCIO, 19


### Regi onal Business Development Manager, 20



### Johnson Controls 2 2 1 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### AFTERNOON SES S ION (continued) 3


### GRETCHEN DAHLKEMPER, National Field Manager, 4



### Moms Clean Air Force 22 6 5


### GARRY HARRIS, President of HTS Enterprises; 6


### Managing Director of Center for Sustainable 7


### Communities; and Managing Director of 8



### Emerald Cities Atlanta 2 3 2 9



### DR. DANIEL JORANKO, President, 10



### Tennessee Interfaith Power & Light 23 8 11



### DR. PATRICIA ANNE WILLIAMS, 12



### Concerned Citizen from Atlanta 2 4 2 13



### ANNA JANE JOYNER, Coordinator, Creation Care 14



### Alliance of Western North Carolina 24 7 15



### BARBARA S. PAUL, 16



### Concerned Citizen from Atl anta 25 3 17


### DAVID A. THEISS, Mayor of Ellaville, Georgia 25 6 18



### RUSSELL OLIVER, 19



### Kentuckian for the Commonwealth 2 60 20



### MICKEY McCOY, 21


### Concerned Citizen from Inez, Kentucky 26 7 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### AFTERNOON SESSION (continued) 3



### STEPHEN WILKINS, 4



### Kentuckians for the Commonwealth 27 2 5


### DOUG MIELL, Georgia Chamber of Commerce 27 8 6


### BARBARA KELLY, Concerned Citizen from Georgia 28 4 7


### PAM JONES, Citizens Climate Lobby 28 9 8



### NICK MULLINS, C oncerned Citizen from Kentucky 29 5 9



### ALEXANDRIA MULLINS, 10


### Daughter of Nick and Rustina Mullins 29 9 11



### DR. JAMES RUST, Heartland Institute 30 3 12



### DOUG FULLE, Vice President, 13



### Environmental Affairs, 14



### Oglethorpe Powe r Corporation 30 7 15



### RUTH BAMBERGER, 16


### Concerned Citizen from Kentucky 31 2 17



### BRYAN TOLAR, President, 18


### Georgia Agribusiness Council 31 6 19



### ANUP SHAH, 20



### Environment Affairs Metro Atlanta Chamber, 3 20 21



### RICK FOWLER, Concerned Citizen from Kentucky 32 7 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### AFTERNOON SESSION (continued) 3



### BEN TERPSTRA, 4



### Concerned Citizen from Tennessee 33 1 5



### REL CORBIN, 6



### Concerned Citizen from Arkansas 33 6 7



### TIM DARST, Executive Director, 8


### Kentucky Interfaith Power & Light 33 9 9



### SUSAN CORBETT, Chair, South Carolina 10


### Chapter of the Sierra Club; and Chair, 11



### National Sierra Club Nuclear

- Free Campaign 34 5 12



### BOB McQUEEN, Green for All 35 3 13


### BOB GALE, Ecologist and Public Lands Director, 14



### Western North Carolina Alliance 35 8 15



### CAROL JUDY, Concerned Citizen from Tennessee 36 3 16



### JUNE DEAN, Senior Vice President, 17


### Public Policy and Health Promotion. 18


### American Lung Association in Georgia, 19



### North Carolina, and South Carolina 367 20



### RUSTINA MULLINS, 21


### Concerned Citizen from Kentucky 370 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### AFTERNOON SESSION (continued) 3



### DANIEL MULLINS, 4



### S on of Nick and Rustina Mullins 373 5



### ELIZABETH BARGER, 6



### Concerned Citizen from Tennessee 378 7



### JEANNE CERULEAN, 8



### Concerned Citizen from Tennessee 381 9



### TAYLOR ALLRED, 10


### Southern Alliance for Clean Energy 388 11



### PATTI BL EVINS , 12


### Health Safety Environment Manager, 13


### Johns Manville Corp, Winder, Georgia 393 14

15



### EVENING SESSION 16



### AMY ADAMS, 17



### Concerned Citizen from North Carolina 405 18



### CANDEE HENDERSON, 19


### Concerned Citizen from Georgia 411 20



### BERT SCHUSTER, 21


### Concerned Citizen from Georgia 416 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2


### CHRIS McCORKLE, Vice President of Operations, 3


### McCorkle Nurseries in Georgia 421 4


### BONITA DODD, Georgia Public Polic y Foundation 424 5



### ELLEN DUGAN, 6



### Concerned Citizen from North Carolina 429 7



### DR. GERALD STATON, Board of Directors, 8


### American Lung Association of the Southeast 432 9



### ANTHONY HUDSON, Concerned Citizen 437 10


### TAMMYE VAUGHN, Manager of Marketing, 11



### Altamaha Electric Membership Cooperative 440 12



### BRAD ROUSE, Concerned Citizen 443 13


### TERRY FLOYD, Concerned Citizen from Georgia 447 14


### BARBARA STAHMKE, Registered Dietician 452 15



### JANE LAPING , 16



### Concerned Citizen from North Carolina 456 17



### DAVID WHITE, Director, 18


### Gulf of Mexico Restoration Campaign, 19



### National Wildlife Federation 460 20



### JAMA EILER MAN N, 21



### Concerned Citizen from North Carolina 466 22

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1



### MORNING SESSION 2


### MS. TONEY: Good morning, everyo ne. 3


### ATTENDEES: Good morning. 4


### MS. TONEY: Good morning. I love the 5


### energy already. It is 9:03, so we are going to 6


### go ahead and begin and get started today. Good 7


### morning again. My name is Heather McTeer Toney. 8


### I am the Regional Administrator for the 9


### Environmental Protection Agency here in Region 4, 10


### the Southeast Region. 11


### First, let me say I am so glad to see 12



### each and every one of you and thank you so much 13


### for joining us today. I am one of the Chairs for 14


### today's Public Hearing, and we are going to ha ve 15



### a very, very good day today. 16


### Joining me on this panel this morning is 17



### Mr. Nick Hutson, who is the Technical Lead for 18



### the Office of Air and Radiation out of our 19


### Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

-- thanks so 20


### much for joining us this morning

-- and also 21



### J eaneanne Gettle, who is the Air, Pesticides, and 22

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### Toxic Deputy Director in Region 4. 1


### Thank you all again for joining us. We 2


### are here today to listen to your comments on two 3


### proposed rules to reduce carbon pollution from 4



### power plants. EPA announced both o f these 5



### proposed rules on June the 2nd of 2014. 6


### Just a little background information for 7



### you. Power plants are the largest source of 8


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 9



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 10



### emissions. The first rule is EPA's Proposed 11


### Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 12


### proposal consists of two main parts: 13



### state

- specific goals to lower carbon pollution 14


### from the power plants and guidelines to help 15


### states develop their plans for meeting the goals. 16


### This pr oposal gives states flexibility in 17


### determining how to meet their goals, and states 18


### will choose what goes into each of their plans 19


### that show how they will achieve the needed 20


### reductions and meet their goals by 2030. 21


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 22

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### address Carbon Dioxide Emissions from Modified 1



### and Reconstructed Power Plants. This rule would 2


### set emission limits for two groups of power 3


### plants, those that make physical or operational 4


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 5


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 6



### that replace components to such an extent that 7



### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 8


### capital cost of an entirely new or comparable 9


### facility. 10


### Now, if you would like more details on 11


### either of these proposed rules, there are fact 12



### s heets that are near the registration desk. Let 13


### me also take this time to remind you
, if you have 14


### not signed into the EPA registration, we would 15


### please ask that you make sure that you sign into 16


### the registration desk for EPA as you receive or 17


### pick up any of the materials that we have outside 18



### that are for you. 19


### So today's hearing is one of four Public 20


### Hearings across the country this week on the two 21


### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 22

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### in these hearings, and we are especially glad 1



### that we are able to host one of these hearings 2


### here in the Southeast Region. 3


### I really want to thank you all for taking 4


### out your time to travel here today. I think that 5


### is shows not only how critically important this 6


### is to all of us, but it shows how important it is 7



### for us to hear and listen to the comments that 8


### you have. And that's exactly what we intend to 9



### do today. 10


### So, again, make sure that you have signed 11


### in. If you have signed in to speak online or by 12



### phone but haven't told us that you're here, 13



### please make sure th at you step out to the 14


### registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 15


### you have arrived. 16


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 17


### given a room letter where you checked in, Room A 18



### or Room B. We are in Room A, and so let's make 19


### sure right now. If you're a speaker, check where 20


### you are supposed to be and if you're in the right 21


### room. If you're not in the right room, this 22

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### might be a good time to switch and go over to 1


### Room B, which is right through those doors. If 2


### you are in the right room or if you're just h ere 3


### to listen, by all means, make yourselves 4



### comfortable. 5


### All right. So here is how today's 6


### hearing is going to work. I am going to call the 7


### speakers up in pairs. When your name is called, 8



### please come to the table here at the front of the 9



### room. If you need assistance coming up the 10



### steps, we do have someone, one of the staff 11



### members who will raise their hand. We will have 12


### someone to assist you if you need some assistance 13


### making it up to these steps. 14



### When I call on you to speak, please state 15



### your name and spell it for the court reporter. 16


### All of the comments today are being recorded. 17


### Your comments are going to be transcribed and 18



### included in the record of comments on the 19



### proposed rule. 20


### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 21



### comments, and we have a li ght here to help you 22

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### know how much time you have left to speak. When 1


### the light turns from green to yellow, that means 2


### you have 1 minute remaining. When it turns to 3


### red, that is a signal that you need to wrap up 4


### your testimony. When the light will flash to red 5


### and it starts beeping, that means you have spoken 6


### for 5 minutes and it is time to stop. If I start 7


### waving my hands like this, that means it is the 8



### end. I know we won't have to do that because 9


### everyone here is going to work with us 10


### accordingly. 11



### Bu t the point is that we want to make 12



### sure that we get a chance to hear everyone's 13


### testimony, that we give you the opportunity to 14


### speak, and that we don't run overtime, so that we 15


### can hear as many people as possible. 16


### We, again, are here to listen to you 17



### tod ay. When you are finished speaking, please 18


### remain at the table until the person next to you 19


### has completed his or her testimony. 20


### We are here to listen to you today, but 21


### we may ask you a clarifying question. The 22

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### clarifying question, we may or may not ask. 1


### Again, it will not take away from your time. It 2


### is simply to understand maybe a definition or 3


### just to be a little clearer on the statement that 4


### you have made. After that, I will call the next 5


### pair and so on and so on, until we finish this 6


### morning sessi on. 7


### If you have brought a written copy of 8


### your testimony with you today, please give that 9


### to the staff at the registration desk before you 10



### leave today, so that we can make sure that we 11



### also have that as a part of our record. 12



### Because of the large number o f people who 13


### have signed up to speak today and to be 14


### absolutely fair to everyone here in the room, we 15


### are going to have to strictly enforce the 16



### 5

- minute rule. So please be kind and be 17


### cognizant of the other people who would like to 18



### speak. We want to make sure that we listen to 19


### everyone and that we abide by that 5

- minute rule. 20



### We also want to make sure that we are 21


### very respectful of everyone speaking and 22

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### everyone's opportunity of what they have to say. 1


### You should know that I have bragged quite a bit 2



### on t he fact that we are in the Southeast Region, 3


### and we know Southern hospitality better than 4


### anyone else. So I know that we will have an 5


### opportunity to really listen to everyone's 6


### comment and then have the opportunity to share in 7



### those later on, maybe after these sessions are 8



### over with. 9


### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 10



### much consideration to comments we receive in 11


### writing as we do to comments that we receive at a 12


### Public Hearing such as this. If you have more 13


### that you would like to say and you don't h ave an 14


### opportunity to get it all out in the comments, 15


### please, please make sure that you write those 16


### comments down, that you submit those comments to 17


### us, because they will be reviewed. There is 18


### plenty of time to get written comments in, and 19



### there are comme nt cards available at the 20


### registration desk. 21


### The comments must be received by October 22

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### the 16th, 2014. Again, that is October the 16th. 1


### That is how long we have to receive those written 2



### comments. 3


### We will put any written comments that we 4


### receive today in to the official docket for the 5


### proposed rule. Don't feel slighted or don't feel 6


### bad if you don't get a chance to get up to speak 7


### or you didn't sign up to speak and you want to 8


### write something and you have a thought and you 9



### want to write it down. Please m ake sure that you 10


### do that, and that you submit it to us at the 11



### desk, so that we can make those as a part of our 12



### record. 13


### We are scheduled to go to 8 p.m. tonight, 14


### and we are going to take a lunch and a dinner 15


### break, so everyone can get something to eat. 16



### R ight now, the lunch break is scheduled for noon, 17



### and the dinner break is scheduled for five 18



### o'clock. 19


### In addition, we may take additional short 20


### breaks throughout the day, as needed, and we will 21



### keep you posted as the day goes on. 22

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### Of course, if you have an y questions, we 1



### have many staff, EPA staff, that are here, that 2


### are ready to assist and help you, and we will try 3



### to make sure that we can answer or address any of 4


### your concerns and needs as quickly as possible. 5


### Finally, I want to ask each of you

-- and 6



### I have said this, but just to reiterate it, just 7



### a little bit more

-- please be respectful of 8


### everyone who speaks today. We have a wide 9


### variety of different views and thoughts, and they 10


### are all equally important to this process. That 11


### is really the beauty of this process is that here 12


### today, we have an opportunity to listen to 13


### everyone, everyone's views, and get it as a part 14



### of our record. 15


### I can tell you that our Administration, 16


### this is very, very important to her that we hear 17



### from every aspect of the commu nity, and we want 18


### to hear from all of you. We want to be fair to 19


### everyone, so please listen, listen quietly, so 20


### that we can transcribe properly and make sure 21



### that we get your comments on the record. Even 22

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### applause can slow things down sometimes, and I 1



### kno w there are some comments that we may be 2


### really excited about, but if we can, let's try to 3


### make sure that we listen, that we get the 4


### information in, that it is transcribed correctly, 5


### and that we are fair to everyone who is signed up 6



### to speak. 7


### Again, thank you so much for taking out 8


### your time, your travel to be here with us today, 9


### and with that, let's go ahead and get started. 10


### Our first two speakers are Chuck Martin 11



### and Don Parsons. If Chuck Martina and Don 12



### Parsons would please make your way to the tables

. 13



### [Pause.] 14



### MS. TONEY: Technical difficulties, which 15


### is why we have backup. 16



### MS. GETTLE: Jane, can you go get the 17


### people and tell them to come and reset this? 18


### MS. TONEY: In the meantime, we are going 19



### to do old

- fashioned technology here. 20


### All right. We are going to reverse the 21


### order just a minute. I think we are going to go 22

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### Don Parsons first. 1



### If you would, please state your name, 2


### spell it correctly for the court reporter, and 3


### any titles that need to be added, as well. You 4



### may proceed. 5



### MR. PARSONS: Okay, thank you. My name 6



### is Don Parsons. That's D

- o

- n, P

- a

- r

- s

- o

- n

- s. I 7


### am a Georgia State Representative from Cobb 8


### County, Georgia. I am the Chair of the Energy 9



### Utilities and Telecommunications Committee in the 10


### Georgia House of Representatives. I w ant to 11


### thank you for the opportunity to present my 12



### thoughts on the proposed rule. 13


### I appreciate much of the work done by the 14


### EPA. There is no doubt in my mind that the air 15


### we breathe today is cleaner than if the EPA had 16



### not been established. 17



### From the tim e I was in the fourth grade 18


### until I graduated from college, my family and 19


### neighbors breathed polluted air. Our cars and 20


### streets were covered in a black grit every 21


### morning, and we dealt with a strong and pungent 22

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### odor of chlorine and other chemicals on a da ily 1


### basis. This was in the Kanawha Valley of West 2


### Virginia, once only second to the Ruhr Valley in 3


### Germany in the production of chemicals and 4


### chemical products. I know that sometimes 5


### industry does not do the right things with people 6


### affected by its actio ns, and sometimes the people 7



### need some help. 8



### However, I also know that those chemical 9


### plants provided the jobs for most of the people 10


### in that valley. The fathers of most of my 11


### classmates work in some capacity for Union 12



### Carbide, Westvaco, Monsanto, DuPont , or some 13


### other chemical plant. Those plants were the 14


### economic engine of the valley. The coal that was 15


### used in those plants provided jobs for miners 16


### from throughout the region and provided the 17


### livelihood for their families, and the management 18



### of those co mpanies demanded excellence in the 19


### public school systems. Although I did not 20



### realize it at the time, this nation as well as 21


### that region were beneficiaries of that. 22

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### These are some of the components of the 1



### proposed rule change, and unfortunately, the EPA 2



### a nd the current administration in Washington, 3


### D.C., are apparently not taking into 4



### consideration. I don't know whether or not the 5


### Ruhr Valley in Germany is still an unwanted 6



### chemical

- producing area of the world, but I am 7



### pretty sure that the Kanawha Valley is not number 8



### two. 9


### If this proposed rule is adopted, more 10


### and more of those miners of West Virginia, 11


### Southwest Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, 12


### Pennsylvania, and from across the country will 13


### lose their jobs, with no way to provide a 14



### livelihood for their fam ilies. These are good, 15


### hardworking people who have done nothing to 16


### deserve that their livelihood be taken away from 17



### them. 18


### What they have done is to provide a 19


### resource to build the factories, the skyscrapers, 20


### the tanks, the warships, the vehicles, and 21



### air planes that have made this country what it is 22

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### and to defend it against those who hate it for 1



### what it is. 2


### I seriously doubt that anybody was 3


### complaining about carbon emissions from the 4


### burning of coal for the production of warships 5



### and aircraft on D

- Day. 6


### In its Executive Summary, the EPA states, 7


### "We project job gains and losses relative 8



### to

. . . coal and natural gas production, and 9


### demand side energy efficiency sectors." This is 10


### the EPA saying it. "In 2020, we project job 11


### growth of 25,900 to 28,000 jobs

. . . in the 12


### power production and fuel extraction sectors, and 13


### we project an increase of 78,800 jobs in the 14



### demand

- side energy efficiency sector." 15



### I don't see how reduction and use of coal 16


### can possibly result in a job growth of 28,000 17


### jobs in the fuel ext raction sector. 18


### The EPA makes very prominent references 19



### to the President's Climate Action Plan, which 20


### according to the EPA recognizes that climate 21



### change has far

- reaching, harmful consequences and 22

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### economic cost. It goes on to say the Climate 1



### Action Plan details a broad array of actions to 2


### reduce greenhouse gas emissions that contribute 3


### to climate change. 4


### To that, I offer the following. When the 5



### health and welfare of people are adversely 6


### affected by the actions of man, some positive 7


### action is sometimes j ustified when very limited 8


### negative economic activity might occur. However, 9


### for action as drastic as the proposed rule to be 10


### put in place, an action that will place severe 11


### economic hardships on citizens of this nation, 12


### based upon unproven theories of clim ate change, 13


### there is a completely different thing and should 14


### not be considered, should not be accepted, should 15



### not be approved. 16


### In closing, the EPA in its summary 17


### states, The CAA, as interpreted by the courts, 18



### identifies several factors for the EPA to 19



### con sider in a Best System of Emission Reduction 20



### determination. These include technical 21


### feasibility, costs, size of emission reductions 22

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### and technology, whether the system promotes the 1


### implementation and further development of 2



### technology. 3



### I would ask the EPA to consider what 4


### Senator Manchin has proposed, and that is give 5


### industry time to develop the technology needed to 6



### allow the use of coal to meet the desired 7



### standards. 8



### I do not own one clump of coal. I have 9



### no financial interest whatsoever in the coal 10



### ind ustry, but I know what a great source of 11


### energy it is. I know that we have vast reserves 12


### of it, and I know that we should not penalize the 13


### coal industry and the families that depend on the 14


### mining of it just to enact standards that are not 15



### perfected. 16



### Than k you. 17



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 18



### Mr. Martin? 19


### And I believe our light is working. 20


### MR. MARTIN: Thank you. My name is Chuck 21


### Martin. I represent the 49th House District in 22

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### Georgia. Chuck is spelled C

- h

- u

- c

- k. 1



### M

- a

- r

- t

- i

- n. 2


### I am a member of the Georgia H ouse 3


### Energy, Public Utilities, and Telecommunications, 4


### and Chair of Energy, Public Utilities 5


### Subcommittee for Chairman Parsons and my fellow 6


### citizens in Georgia. I am the immediate past 7


### Chairman of the Southern Legislative Conference's 8


### Energy and Environm ent Committee, and I am the 9



### current Co

- Chair of the Council of State 10


### Governments Energy and Environment Committee. 11


### To be clear today, I am here in my 12


### individual capacity and to represent those that I 13


### represent in the State House. I also am here to 14



### repres ent my mother, a 77

- year

- old cancer 15


### survivor, and my two sons that are 24 and 27. 16


### Ladies and gentlemen, I know there are 17


### people in this room that are on two sides, 18


### whether you think CO 2 

### will or will not affect our 19



### environment over time. That is not what we are 20


### here to talk about today. We may all believe we 21


### are going to the same place. 22

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### I would like to talk to you today about 1


### how we're getting there and how this rule is 2


### relative to that, our economy, and each of us in 3



### America. 4


### There are four building b locks that the 5


### EPA says states can use to get there. The first 6


### is to optimize fossil fuel

- fired plants, 7


### primarily coal plants. They assume you can get a 8


### 6 percent increase in a thermal transmission of 9


### those plants. Ladies and gentlemen, it's just 10



### not po ssible. New plants that have just been 11



### built that have been built to state

- of

- the

- art 12


### standards can't get 6 percent overnight. They 13


### wish us to use more lower emitting fuel, such as 14


### natural gas. They wish that utilization to come 15


### up to 70 percent, yet in the polar vortex last 16


### year, if we had counted on that much natural gas, 17


### it would have been very cold in Ohio, because you 18


### cannot simply at this time deliver natural gas to 19


### the plants that exist, much less those that would 20


### be transferred to natural gas in the future. 21



### We should use all of the above strategy, 22

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### but we can't do it tomorrow. We can't do it next 1


### year, and quite frankly, we can't do it by 2020. 2



### They would have us use more zero and 3



### low

- emitting sources. Renewable energy. That's 4



### wonderful. We s hould do that. American 5


### ingenuity has brought those forward for years in 6


### the past, and we continue to do that, yet we 7



### cannot continue to count on or we cannot count on 8



### in the future renewables, wind and solar as 9


### baseload generation. Had we been doing tha t in 10


### Ohio when the polar vortex came down, it would 11



### have gotten really cold. 12


### They wish us to use electricity more 13


### efficiently. We have done that with light bulbs. 14


### We have replaced things, and our American 15


### ingenuity will continue to do that, yet the 16



### numb ers that account for that simply do not exist 17


### to make this policy work by 2020. 18


### So my question is

-- we have been assured 19


### in various cases. We can keep our clean 20



### affordable

-- if we like it, we can keep our 21


### clean affordable energy, and we will be fine, but 22

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### we have heard that before recently in a different 1


### area, and it hasn't been to pass. 2


### So I just want us to be eyes wide open 3


### that this rule, to get us to the place we may all 4


### want to go one day, is not achievable. The EPA's 5


### take on the rule says it wi ll reduce electric 6


### bills 8 percent by 2030, yet our Public Service 7


### Commission in Georgia is already tasked to give 8


### us the cheapest energy of reliable and 9


### affordability. 10


### So I would ask you this. When you take 11


### options for them off the table, when they are 12


### already mandated by law to provide the cheapest 13


### energy, how is energy going to get cheaper? They 14


### say there is going to be no impact on 15


### reliability, yet 121 gigawatts of baseload fossil 16


### fuel generation is scheduled to come offline 17


### according to the EPA's ow n documents. They say 18


### it will be a boon to the economy, yet tens of 19



### thousands of coal miners and thousands of union 20


### workers that haul coal around this country have 21


### lost their jobs, because it used to be 40 percent 22

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### of the railroads' cargo was coal, and tha t is 1


### going down every year. 2


### Ladies and gentlemen, if coal comes off 3


### the trains, all the other products that ride on 4


### the trains are going to get more expensive in 5


### your department store or in your grocery store. 6


### If you don't believe that that will have a 7



### n egative impact on the economy, we just differ. 8


### They say it will spur the economy, yet 9


### time and again, innovation in this country has 10



### been spurred when government has allowed 11


### businesses to thrive and do things rather than 12


### placing limitations on them. 13



### The EPA says it will work to develop 14


### plans in a time frame that is achievable, yet I 15



### stand before you today and tell you that the four 16


### building blocks are not achievable. 17


### Ladies and gentlemen, if we need to get 18


### to a point, let's do that, but I would 19



### respectfu lly request that the EPA withdraw or 20


### amend this rule, including its timeline, to allow 21


### American ingenuity to work as it has for over two 22

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### centuries, so that we as American people can 1


### adopt and adapt and provide for our clean 2



### environment like we have better than anybody has 3



### in the world. 4


### Thank you for allowing me to comment. 5



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Mr. Martin. 6


### Our next two speakers will be Blaine 7


### Galliher and Jeremy Oden. 8


### While they are coming to the stage, if 9


### you would also take this opportunity to take y our 10


### electronic devices, and please turn them to 11



### silent or vibrate, so that we don't disturb the 12


### transcription or the testimony that is coming 13



### forward. Thank you. 14


### MR. GALLIHER: Good morning. Blaine 15


### Galliher, Senior Advisor, Governor Bentley, 16



### B

- l

- a

- i

- n

- e , G

- a

- l

- l

- i

- h

- e

- r. 17



### My comments today reflect Governor 18


### Bentley's deep philosophical belief and concern 19


### with EPA's proposed environmental regulations. 20


### These regulations will dictate how utilities 21



### generate power and how consumers use that power 22

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### for decades to come. In doing so, the proposal 1


### ineffectively restructures the electric sector. 2



### The costs are real; the benefits are not. The 3


### link between affordable energy and economic 4


### growth cannot be ignored. 5



### Throughout Governor Bentley's term, 6



### Alabama has aggre ssively pursued new industry and 7


### jobs. Alabama's manufacturing industry has 8



### proven to be extremely valuable to our economy. 9


### In 2011, the manufacturing sector provided more 10


### than 237,000 direct jobs in Alabama and created 11


### many more indirect jobs and small businesses. 12


### Alabama's manufacturing industry also 13


### produced more than $13 billion in exports. These 14


### economic contributions depend on low

- cost energy. 15


### The compliance with the proposal for reductions 16



### in CO 2 

### emissions by almost 30 percent will 17


### directly cost the state by increased energy 18


### rates, loss of jobs in industry, and a negative 19


### impact of less in energy reliability. 20


### The U.S. Chamber of Commerce predicts 21


### that the compliance cost of these new regulations 22

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### will be $28 billion each year to 2030, which is a 1


### cumulative total of nearly $480 billion. This is 2


### three times larger than EPA's estimate. Rising 3


### electric rates would damage our gross domestic 4



### product. 5


### According to estimates, the loss in GDP 6


### will be $50 billion per year, peaking at $100

- 7



### billion in 2 025. To bring these numbers into 8


### perspective, a typical family in Alabama would 9


### lose monthly disposable income during the time 10


### contemplated by the regulation. The impact on 11


### Alabama's poor families is disproportionate and 12


### devastating. 13



### While it is abundan tly clear that Alabama 14


### will incur these costs, the benefits are vague. 15


### Any claim that the proposed guidelines will make 16


### a material difference in global temperatures is 17


### dubious at best. Theoretically, the rule might 18


### reduce global concentration of carbon d ioxide by 19


### less than 1 percent, and it might reduce global 20



### temperatures by less than 100th of a degree. 21



### Governor Bentley feels that EPA's 22

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### proposal exceeds legal authority under the Clean 1


### Air Act. By this proposal, EPA attempts to 2


### require actions by entiti es which are not 3


### directly subject to the regulation on the Clean 4



### Air Act. 5


### In doing so, EPA exceeds its authority. 6



### The Clean Air Act forbids Section 111(d) 7


### regulations based on emission reductions that 8



### cannot be achieved at individual facilities. 9



### EPA's g oal calculation to be imposed on Alabama 10


### cannot meet this requirement, but instead relies 11


### on reductions by an entire system, state, and 12


### region to include facilities and state 13


### governments acting in tandem. 14


### EPA also improperly, and outside of its 15


### authority, seeks to impose additional regulations 16


### under Section 111(d) of the Act on existing 17


### source categories already regulated. There is no 18


### question that existing coal

- fired electric 19


### generating units are already regulated by Section 20



### 112. Therefore, these may no t be further 21


### regulated under Section 111(b), as EPA seeks to 22

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### do. 1



### EPA seeks to perform an end run around 2


### the congressional mandate of the Clean Air Act 3


### and violates Congress' plain intent of Section 4


### 112. This overreach ignores the constitutional 5


### principle of separation of powers and as a result 6


### runs headlong into the sovereign right of the 7


### states to protect the general welfare of their 8



### citizens. 9


### Increased electricity costs and impacts 10


### on reliability. Historically, Alabama's retail 11


### electricity suppliers h ave achieved reliable, 12


### affordable energy by maintaining a balance of 13


### resources, including hydroelectric, coal, natural 14


### gas, nuclear, and renewables. This proposal 15


### effectively bans traditional coal

- fired 16


### generating technology as a future supply option. 17



### Th is effective ban is despite the fact that this 18


### technology has provided reliable cost

- effective 19


### electricity to Alabama consumers for decades. 20


### The predictable result will be a sharp increase 21


### in cost for energy and a noticeable decrease in 22

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### energy reliability

. 1


### Coal plant retirement would result in a 2


### diminished capacity of 114 gigawatts or about 40 3


### percent of existing capacity. EPA's proposal 4


### jeopardizes, again, reliability by reducing 5


### available resources for power generation during 6


### peak times of use and dema nd. The extreme cold 7


### of last winter provides the unmistakable lesson 8


### that fuel diversity is necessary to achieve both 9


### energy reliability and a cost

- effective solution 10


### to our nation's power needs. 11


### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Mr. Galliher. 12



### MR. GALLIHER: May I conclude? 13



### MS. TONEY: If you would please

-- 14



### MR. GALLIHER: Two seconds. 15



### MS. TONEY:

-- give those remarks to us 16


### in written form, we will make sure that they are 17


### included in the record. Thank you so much. 18



### MR. GALLIHER: I have submitted all the 19



### comme nts and sources in written form. 20



### Thank you, ma'am. 21



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 22

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### Mr. Oden? 1



### MR. ODEN: Thank you. Jeremy Oden, 2



### Public Service Commissioner, State of Alabama, 3



### O

- d

- e

- n. 4



### I would like to first thank the 5


### Environment Protection Agency for hosting a 6


### public hearing here and across the United States, 7


### especially here in the Southeast

-- thank you

-- 8


### and extending the comments to 60 days, making 9


### yourself available to state leaders, regulators, 10



### and various stakeholders. 11



### As an elected official, I feel it is 12


### vital to get in front of those who have affected 13


### and listened to what the public has to say. 14



### Under President Obama's Climate Action 15


### Plan, plants regulate carbon emissions on both 16


### new and existing sources, will have a 17



### far

- reaching effect, and will decre ase the 18


### reliability, affordability, and the fuel 19


### diversity of our electricity generation fleet. 20


### Before addressing specific issues and 21


### presenting some of my own questions, I would like 22

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### to briefly give a foundation of my state, 1


### Alabama's electricity landsca pe. We are one of 2


### the largest producers of electricity in the 3


### nation, supplying our surrounding states with 4


### reliable and affordable energy. We have two 5


### nuclear plants within our borders, Browns Ferry 6


### and Farley, with Browns Ferry having the second 7



### larges t generating capacity in the United States. 8


### As of April 2014, this fuel source was 9



### over one

- third of our state's generation. With 10


### over 20 hydroelectric dams as well, we are 11


### extremely fortunate to have this zero fuel cost, 12



### zero emission

- generating source that provides 9 13


### percent of our state's electricity generation. 14


### As Commissioner, I am charged with these 15



### duties to ensure safe, reliable, and affordable 16


### electricity to customers of regulated entities. 17


### While much debate can be had over regulating 18



### carbon em ission and the effect it has on the 19


### climate, my comments today will focus on the rule 20



### itself and issues that need to be addressed in 21



### the final version. 22

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### The EPA has chosen to use Section 111(d) 1


### in the Clean Air Act to propose regulations for 2



### carbon and dir ect the states to implement plans 3



### or SI Ps for compliance. The Clean Power Plan 4


### uses best systems of emission reduction to 5



### control the CO 2 

### emissions. With the EPA giving 6


### four building blocks for states to base their 7



### individual SI Ps on. It is within these building 8


### blocks that I would like to focus this morning. 9


### The first building block addresses the 10


### heat rate improvement for coal

- fired 11


### electricity

- generating units, or EGUs. With the 12


### EPA estimating a 6 percent reduction in CO 2 13



### emissions, these investments come to a great cost 14



### and are shouldered by the consumers and the 15


### customers of the utility. Utilities within our 16


### state have spent hundreds of millions of dollars 17


### within the last few years just to comply with 18


### various regulations and the costs associated wi th 19


### controlling the CO 2 

### emissions and can potentially 20


### have an exponential amount of increase. 21



### Look at the actions of the states that 22

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### you are considering in our country, and look at 1



### where we have been and what we have already done 2



### to comply to some of these measures. 3


### Building block two. It calls for a 4



### re

- dispatching of the EGUs from coal to gas with 5



### the EPA

- suggested capacity factored for existing 6



### natural gas

- combined units. It is up to 70 7


### percent ratio. 8


### In relation to building block one, if I 9



### as a PSA C ommissioner authorized the large 10



### investments to increase these heat ratios of 11



### coal

- fired plants, one would expect that unit to 12



### run more often. Yet, within our CPP, utilities 13


### economic base would be forced to dispatch these 14



### in the environmental basis and no t necessarily 15



### the low

- cost economic basis. 16


### Third building block speaks to zero 17



### carbon fuel sources, which includes renewable 18


### energies and nuclear generation, yet it 19


### completely ignores the original emission

- free 20


### production of low

- cost hydroelectricity and 21


### hydroelectric generation. With many nuclear 22

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### reactors facing relicense, combined with the low 1


### price of natural gas, choosing to close these 2



### emission

- free fuel sources would only increase 3



### our reliance on fuel force and also fossil 4



### fuel

- based generation. 5



### A s a result of this, in the world today, 6


### we are seeing 72 new nuclear reactors going 7


### online. Only five of those are currently under 8



### consideration in the United States. 9


### Finally, building block four. It relies 10


### on the end user efficiency status. We are 11



### loo king at a 1.5 percent annually. The EE does 12


### not have many benefits. These programs come at a 13


### cost to the entire rate base, not just to 14



### consumers on the residential side but all 15



### consumers. The EE is unclear, and it is also 16



### almost unenforceable with its u n

- clarity. 17


### Finally, I would like to summarize my 18


### comments, if I can. After looking at all four 19


### building blocks, the EPA's decision will decimate 20



### the cost factor of the utilities in which I have 21


### to regulate. These utilities will increases 22

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### their costs. 1



### M S. TONEY: Mr. Smith, thank you. If you 2



### would

-- 3



### MR. ODEN: I am Mr. Oden, but that's 4



### fine. 5


### MS. TONEY: Mr. Oden. I apologize. 6


### Forgive me. 7



### MR. ODEN: I do want to summarize that

-- 8


### MS. TONEY: Well, if you will please 9


### provide those summaries for us, those written 10


### comments, we would greatly appreciate it and make 11


### sure that we include them in the transcription. 12


### MR. ODEN: The biggest thing is

-- 13


### MS. TONEY: Thank you both for coming. 14



### MR. ODEN:

-- those four building blocks 15


### is just not acceptable. 16


### MS. TONEY: I appreciate that. Thank 17


### you, sir. 18



### MR. ODEN: SO that's why we're

-- thank 19



### you. 20



### MS. TONEY: Thank you both, sirs, for 21



### those comments. 22

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### MR. GALLIHER: Thank you, ma'am. Thank 1



### you. 2



### MS. TONEY: At this time, we will have 3



### Mr. Steven Smith and

-- please forgive me if I do 4


### not pronounce this correctly

-- Flaco Aleman. I 5


### hope that I did get that pronunciation close. 6


### Thank you, sir. 7


### MR. SMITH: You did get the "Smith" 8



### correct. 9


### [Laughter.] 10


### MS. TONEY: It is going to be a good day. 11


### All right. 12


### So we will begin with Mr. Smith followed 13


### by Mr. Aleman. Mr. Smith? 14



### DR. SMITH: Great. Thank you for the 15


### opportunity to speak in strong support of the 16



### draft EPA Clean P ower Plan. My name is Dr. 17



### Stephe n Smith. I am the Executive Director of 18



### the Souther n Alliance for Clean Energy
, 19



### CleanEnergy.org. 20


### Our organization works across the 21



### Southeast to reduce the health and environmental 22

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### impacts of how we produce and consume energy. 1



### Trained in the sciences as a 2


### veterinarian, my biology and chemistry 3



### backgroun d, coupled with my training and systems 4



### theory, has enabled me to follow the complex yet 5


### rapidly changing global climate science and the 6


### increasingly apparent impacts of climate 7


### disruption. 8


### While my training vocation motivated me 9


### to speak in support of th e rule, my primary 10



### motivation is that I am a father of three sons, 11


### and I have two grandsons. It is in my role as a 12



### father and a grandfather that I worry the most 13



### about what kind of world we will leave for our 14


### children. I have been blessed in my 50

- plus 15



### y ears to see and enjoy healthy coral reefs, 16


### beautiful beaches, biologically diverse mountain 17



### forests, abundant farms and gardens, never 18


### seriously worrying about our food supply. My 19


### years of healthy Southern living have been made 20


### possible by a stable climat e, with few extremes, 21


### and the work of generations before me that 22

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### understood and accepted science and took actions 1


### that eradicated many vector

- born diseases, 2


### diseases like malaria, in our region. 3


### The commitment of every previous 4


### generation to attempt to le ave the world better 5


### for the one who follows has made my life rich, 6


### comfortable, and fulfilling. I fear that my 7


### generation is not committed to the same future 8


### for our children. Rejecting science, failing to 9


### address and curb global warming pollution, whic h 10


### is leading to climate change and extreme climate 11


### disruption, shreds the intergenerational 12


### commitment of leaving a better world to our 13


### children. Irresponsibly passing a future of 14


### increasingly extreme climate will ensure that my 15


### children and grandchildren a much diminished 16


### life. This is not acceptable to me as a father 17



### and a grandfather. 18



### Why, when we have the tools to address 19


### this problem, would we choose to place our 20


### children's future in peril? Having spent much of 21


### my professional career studying the e nergy 22

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### sector, I know that we have low

- or no

- carbon 1


### technologies like renewable energy that are cost 2


### effective today. We have a deep well of energy 3


### efficiency technologies that can dramatically 4



### reduce waste and squeeze more work out of each 5


### kilowatt we pr oduce. 6


### There is no technological reason why we 7


### are not solving the climate crisis. What is 8


### blocking our fulfillment of this 9


### intergenerational bond of a better world? It is 10


### simply those who have a financial interest in the 11


### current high

- carbon pollution i nvestments. These 12


### individuals and their companies have a vested 13


### interest in not addressing this critical issue. 14


### They have intentionally muddied the water with 15


### pseudoscience, obstructed the political and 16


### regulatory processes with mouthpieces that have 17



### bou ght into, both figuratively and literally, 18


### their misinformation campaign. 19


### Today, many of these individuals will be 20


### speaking here

-- we have actually heard some 21



### already

-- questioning the scientific consensus, 22

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### warning of economic calamity, and downplaying the 1



### risk. 2


### My favorite argument against this role 3


### has been offered by my friends in the utility 4


### industry. They complain about how complicated 5


### this rule is. "The most complicated rule ever 6


### issued," I've heard them say. Of course, these 7



### are the same voice s that have repeatedly called 8


### for greater flexibility in rulemaking. 9



### See, if EPA had issued a 10



### command

- and

- control emission target, these voices 11


### would cry, "It was too prescriptive," and not 12


### flexible enough. Now given a flexible rule with 13


### multiple pathway s of compliance, it is too 14


### complicated. Let us not make this too 15


### complicated. The objection to this rule is here 16



### for one reason and one reason only: to protect 17



### the interest of the industries that emit carbon 18


### pollution or protect their investment in 19



### tech nologies that emit large amounts of carbon at 20


### all of our expense. They ignore the innovation, 21


### the technological advancement, and the power of a 22

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### properly configured market to solve this problem, 1


### choosing instead to cling to an outdated world 2



### view and busin ess model. 3


### Yes, in a free society, they have that 4


### right, but one right they do not have is to allow 5


### their poorly conceived business interest to shred 6


### the intergenerational compact of all mothers and 7


### fathers, myself included. That we will leave the 8



### world a better place than the one we inherited 9


### for our children and grandchildren. 10


### That is why I ask EPA to move forward 11


### with deliberate speed on this long overdue, 12



### modest rule to start us on a path to the future 13


### of addressing carbon pollution. 14



### Thank you. 15



### M S. TONEY: Thank you, Dr. Smith. 16


### [Applause and cheering.] 17


### MS. TONEY: Thank you, ladies and 18



### gentlemen. 19


### Please, before we go on, let me remind 20


### you, I do know that there will be some comments 21


### that do incite some encouragement from the crowd, 22

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### but I would please ask you if you would hold your 1


### applause, so that we can be fair to all that are 2


### speaking, and that we can make sure the 3


### transcription is done correctly and properly. 4


### Thank you, Dr. Smith. 5



### Mr. Aleman. 6


### MR. ALEMAN: Hi. My name is Flaco 7



### Aleman. I am the Executive Director for Kentucky 8



### Jobs with Justice. 9


### Kentucky Jobs with Justice is a coalition 10


### of faith, labor, and community organizations 11



### spread across the State of Kentucky. In 12


### addition, we have over 10,000 activists spread 13



### across the state, from eastern Kentucky to 14



### northern Kentucky to the far western reaches of 15



### the state. 16


### I would like to begin with a brief story. 17


### In 2014, five times I have been hospitalized for 18


### complications because of asthma, twice in March. 19


### One of those times in March, my 1 8

- year

- old 20


### daughter stood by my side in tears as she 21


### listened to the doctors worry that I was going 22

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### into cardiac arrest because I couldn't breathe. 1



### Time after time after time, doctors tried 2


### to figure out what was triggering the asthma. As 3



### it turns out, m any of you may know that the Ohio 4


### Valley is home to one of the highest asthma rates 5


### in the country. Over 13 percent of the people in 6


### Kentucky have asthma due to our complications and 7



### the poor health hazards that we have. 8



### Many people are aware of the coal fields 9


### that we have in the eastern and western parts of 10


### the state, and one of the things that has become 11


### pretty complicated, a complicated question, is 12



### how do we blend together good renewable energy 13



### laws with our coal friends in the coal min e s. 14



### The Unite d Mine Workers of America have 15


### been longtime friends and partners with ours, and 16


### one of the things that we have continued to 17


### stress is that as we begin to look at these new 18


### rules that the EPA is proposing, that we enforce 19



### these new rules, and that we also take a look at 20


### the rules. I know looking at the proposed rules, 21



### they seem to focus on the end

- of

- pipes' carbon 22

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### dioxide emissions, which is wrong, because one of 1


### the things that does is it leaves the value of 2


### human lives at stake, people such as myself, 3



### pe ople such as my children, and those 13 percent 4



### of us Kentuckians who suffer from asthma

- related 5



### problems. 6


### One of the things that the current EPA 7


### proposed rule does not do is that it does not 8


### recognize that coal

- fired and nuclear power 9


### plants are incompati ble with renewable

- based 10


### electrical grids. It is far past time that we 11


### not only move the United States forward, but we 12


### move Kentucky forward off of dirty energy, off of 13


### dirty coal, and on to clean renewable energy 14



### sources. 15


### One of the things that we know is that 16


### the price is dropping drastically for solar and 17


### wind energy. Both of those are prime for the 18



### State of Kentucky. 19


### We look at the state of mountaintop 20


### removal in Kentucky because of greedy coal 21


### companies who care nothing for my health, for the 22

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### healt h of my children, or for the health of my 1


### fellow Kentuckians, and we need EPA today to take 2


### a strong stand and not take a meager position on 3



### these new rules. 4


### We are asking that you protect the 5



### over

- couple

- million folks in Kentucky and all 6


### Americans in pro tecting us from greedy coal 7


### companies. We know as long as the coal companies 8



### and our Senators who bend at their whim have 9


### their way, we are going to continue to die at 10



### tremendous rates. 11


### We are going to continue to have 12



### asthma

- related problems, and being a person who 13


### doesn't have health insurance, when I have to pay 14


### for my asthma medication, I can tell you it's a 15


### far cry from being cheap. Each asthma inhaler 16


### costs me approximately $75, and in the current 17



### state lasts about 2 weeks. So every 2 weeks, I 18



### am spending $75 just on an asthma inhaler for 19



### myself alone. 20



### We have a new child, and we are worried 21


### that our new child is going to have asthma, as 22

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### well, because we live in Ohio Valley. 1


### We saw just a couple weeks ago that the 2


### Louisville Gas and Electric Comp any had a leeway 3


### in the law that allowed them to dump into the 4


### Ohio River, and what they have done is exploited 5


### that loophole in the law. There was a camera set 6


### up for almost a year watching them pour tons and 7


### tons and tons of pollution into our river, no t 8


### mentioning the amount of pollution they are 9


### pouring into our air. 10



### We have in Louisville alone over three 11



### coal

- fired plants that are producing dirty 12


### emissions, that are killing our people in 13



### Kentucky, and we need the EPA today to stand 14



### strong to protect our lives and to protect our 15


### jobs. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 18


### Can we have, please, at this time, 19


### Claudia Haynes and Luther Strange. Claudia 20


### Haynes. Claudia Haynes and Luther Strange. 21



### [Pause.] 22

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### MS. TONEY: Is Claudia Haynes present? 1


### [No audible response.] 2


### MS. TONEY: If Claudia Haynes is not 3


### present, going once, going twice

-- 4


### [No audible response.] 5


### MS. TONEY: All right. Lyle Lansde l l. 6



### [Pause.] 7


### MS. TONEY: Thank you. We will begin 8


### with Mr. Strange. 9


### MR. STRANGE: Good morning , and thank 10



### you. It's Luther Strange, S

- t

- r

- a

- n

- g

- e. 11


### MS. TONEY: Mr. Strange, give me just a 12



### second. I want to make sure you get your full 13


### time on our timer. Now go ahead. 14



### MR. STRANGE: Great. Thank you very 15


### much, and good morning. I appreciate this 16


### opportunity very much. 17


### My name is Luther Strange. I am the 18



### Attorney General of the State of Alabama. 19


### As Attorney General, my sworn duty is to 20


### uphold the rule of law for our 4.8 million 21


### hardworking men and women in Alabama. That duty 22

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### includes enforcing the environmental laws that 1



### help protect our natural resources and the health 2



### of our citizens. 3


### One of the most important matters that I 4


### am dealing with as Attorney General is serving as 5


### the Coordinating Counsel for the Gulf States in 6



### the historic BP oil spill litigation that 7



### devastated Alabama. Alabama's coastline was 8


### covered in oil, and our economy was shut down for 9


### months as a result of the spill. So I understand 10


### firsthand the importance of environmental 11


### regulations. 12


### With that said, my comments today reflect 13


### a continuing concern with this administration's 14


### approach to environmental regulation. EPA's 15


### proposed guidelines for existing power plant 16


### Purple Line performance standards under the Clean 17


### Air Act Section 111(d) are simply the most recent 18



### example o f the Federal Government's usurping 19


### authorities properly delegated to the states. 20


### The defense of this proposal will be that 21


### the states have, quote, flexibility, but 22

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### providing the states with a narrow range of 1


### costly policy choices, which most of the state s 2


### did not choose for themselves, does not provide 3


### any actual flexibility and still produces the 4


### same outcome, higher electricity prices and 5


### decreased generation. Repeating over and over 6


### the word "flexibility" is not an adequate defense 7



### or an adequate answ er to the low

- income consumers 8


### in my state or any other state who will ask why 9



### they must pay more to reduce CO 2 

### emissions when 10


### those reductions cannot and will not impact the 11


### global climate. 12


### Congress did not intend the Clean Air Act 13



### Section 111(d) to have such far

- reaching 14


### consequences for the American people. Indeed, to 15


### prevent impact, such as those, that will flow 16


### from EPA's proposed emission guidelines, Congress 17


### took care to limit EPA's authority under Section 18



### 111(d). 19



### Given the enormous burdens that w ould be 20


### imposed by EPA's proposed guidelines, however, it 21


### may be obvious that EPA has simply disregarded 22

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### the limits of the law. Those limits, moreover, 1


### are not questionable or controversial. They are 2


### expressed in clear elements of the Clean Air Act. 3



### Fir st, the Clean Air Act forbids 4


### regulating sources under Section 111(d) if they 5


### are regulated under Section 112 of the Act. 6


### Existing electric utility generating units are 7


### regulated under Section 112. 8



### Second, the Clean Air Act also forbids 9



### Section 111(d) re gulations that are based on 10



### emission reductions that cannot be achieved at 11


### individual facilities, whether they instead rely 12


### on reductions that require actions by an entire 13


### system, including facilities acting in tandem, 14


### state governments, and even electrici ty 15


### consumers. EPA's proposed emission guidelines 16



### fully embrace a system

- wide approach to 17


### regulation. 18


### Third, EPA has improperly attempted to 19


### limit Section 111(d)'s expressed statutory 20


### authority, delegation of authority to the states, 21


### and in doing so, EPA' s proposal not only rejects 22

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### state discretion under the Clean Air Act but 1


### jettisons decades of unquestioned precedent 2


### establishing state jurisdiction over electricity 3



### markets. 4



### In conclusion, the State of Alabama 5


### vigorously opposes EPA's proposed mandate to 6


### effectively restructure the electric sector, as 7


### it would have disastrous consequences for 8


### electric reliability and the economy. These 9



### consequences, moreover, would all stem from a 10


### patently unlawful application of the Clean Air 11



### Act. EPA's proposal seeks to expand the scope of 12


### Section 111(d) in an unprecedented manner. It 13


### would do so at the expense of state authority 14


### that is expressly identified and preserved in the 15


### Clean Air Act and in the unquestionable 16


### jurisdiction of states over intra

- state 17



### electricit y markets. And it would do all of 18


### these things for no discernible benefit. 19


### Given the increasing ambitions of China 20


### and other developing economies, there is no 21


### rationale that can support such a regulation, and 22

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### the proposed rule should be withdrawn. 1



### Thank you very much for this opportunity 2


### to express my views this morning. We greatly 3


### appreciate it. 4



### MS. TONEY: Thank you very much. 5



### Ms. Lansdell? 6


### MS. LANSDELL: My name is Lyle Lansdell. 7


### I worked for my whole adult life in

-- 8



### MS. TONEY: Would you pleas e spell your 9


### name for the transcript. 10



### MS. LANSDELL: Lansdell, L

- a

- n

- s

- d

- e

- l

- l. 11



### First name, L

- y

- l

- e. 12


### I've worked for 35 years or so in health 13


### research, the last 25 years of those in 14


### epidemiology, conducting epidemiology studies. 15



### But I came home 5 years ago to my 16


### hometown, Sandersville, Georgia, to save my 17


### family farm, and farming is not an easy job in 18


### any case, but it's made much more difficult by 19


### weather that is made more erratic by global 20


### warming. 21


### And I want to thank you for creating your 22

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### plan and re gulations, and I hardly support you. 1


### Just to give a couple of examples, 2 2


### years ago, it started in middle Georgia. 3


### Temperatures of 102 started in May and went on 4


### through August, and 1 year ago in June, mostly in 5



### June, we had 49 inches of rain, when the u sual 6



### rainfall would have been about 7 inches. So if 7


### you can try to imagine growing vegetables and 8



### livestock in those two extreme conditions, it is 9


### very difficult, and I fear that it will only get 10



### worse. 11


### I am a group of Middle Georgia 12



### sustainable farmers. To give a plug for 13


### sustainable farming, perhaps small diverse farms 14


### may be able to provide some food for communities 15



### when huge mono

- crop conventional farms may have 16


### whole crops fail in very bad weather events. So 17


### if there is anything the EPA can do to p rotect 18


### the structure of sustainable farming, please 19



### continue to do so. 20


### As for your soliciting comments on more 21


### stringent regulations, earlier due dates, more 22

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### costly measures, I would opt for all of those, 1



### because I believe that the costs that we will 2



### incu r and havoc that we will incur many decades 3


### from now from not having stringent regulations 4



### will be much worse than we will incur in the next 5


### decades or so. In other words, worrying about 6


### jobs and costs in the next decade will only make 7


### the hardship of the costs and disastrous 8


### consequences worse in the decades following. 9


### I believe that human beings are 10


### unfortunately shortsighted, and I'm worried about 11


### the world that we will leave to our great 12


### grandchildren. I think human beings are not able 13



### to manage how bad it might get to be. It's not a 14



### few days that go by that you don't hear on the 15


### news that sea levels are rising faster than we 16


### thought and the glaciers are melting faster than 17



### they thought , and there will be more extreme 18



### weather events than we thought and so on. 19


### So thank you very much for holding these 20


### hearings and for hearing me today. 21



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, and thank you 22

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### both. 1



### We will now hear from Howard Feldman and 2



### Lee Boone. 3



### [Pause.] 4


### MS. TONEY: We will begin with Mr. 5



### Feldman. 6



### MR. FELDMAN: G ood morning. Thank you 7


### very much for holding this hearing today. It is 8


### appreciated. I am Howard J. Feldman, and I am 9


### representing the American Petroleum Institute. 10


### API represents over 600 oil and natural gas 11


### companies, leaders of a technology

- driven 12



### in dustry that supplies most of America's energy, 13


### supports more than 9.8 million jobs and 8 percent 14


### of the U.S. economy, and since 2000 has invested 15


### nearly $2 trillion in U.S. capital projects to 16


### advance all forms of energy, including 17



### alternatives. 18



### Our membe rs are dedicated to continuous 19


### efforts to improve the compatibility of our 20


### operations with the environment and our 21


### communities, while economically developing energy 22

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### resources and supplying high

- quality products and 1


### services to consumers. We recognize our 2


### responsibility to work with the public, the 3



### government, and others to develop and use natural 4


### resources in an environmentally sound manner, 5


### while protecting the health and safety of our 6


### employees in the public. 7


### Many of our members will be directly 8


### impacte d by the proposed new source performance 9


### standards rulemaking, which is the focus of 10


### today's public hearing. 11


### I have three key points I would like to 12


### make today. First, our industry is doing its 13


### part to contribute to the reduction in carbon 14



### dioxide emissi ons through the increased 15


### production of clean natural gas. 16


### Second, this rulemaking is problematic. 17


### It threatens our industry's international 18


### competitiveness due to higher energy costs. 19


### Third, we have specific concerns with the 20



### proposal and the precedenc e it sets. Among our 21


### concerns is EPA's approach to base the state's 22

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### target reductions on the use of 1



### outside

- the

- fence

- line reductions and the 2


### possible imposition of reduction requirements on 3



### non

- EGU facilities. 4


### Furthermore, this rulemaking and related 5



### 11 1(b) rulemaking needs to be modified to avoid 6


### adversely impacting the use of cogeneration at 7



### industrial facilities. 8


### First, as you're probably aware, 9


### America's energy revolution has changed the 10


### global landscape, thanks to innovations in the 11


### oil and gas ind ustry, particularly hydraulic 12


### fracturing and horizontal drilling. America is 13



### now the number

- one producer of natural gas in the 14



### world and is on course to become the number

- one 15


### producer of oil. 16



### Market

- driven forces are helping us to 17



### use these fuels efficie ntly, and with the growth 18


### of natural gas, U.S. carbon dioxide emissions are 19



### now near 20

- year lows, without job

- destroying 20


### regulations. 21



### Our members at API believe that economic 22

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### prosperity and environmental progress are not 1


### mutually exclusive. From 2000 to 2012, America's 2


### oil and natural gas industry invested more in 3



### zero

- and low

- emissions technologies than the 4



### Federal Government and nearly as much as all 5



### other industries combined. 6


### But America's success as an energy super 7



### power depends on an all

- of

- the

- ab ove strategy 8


### where new rules are designed to complement, not 9


### strangle, the renaissance America is 10


### experiencing, thanks to new energy production. 11


### Second, this rulemaking is problematic. 12


### Unfortunately, the proposed EPA rule ignores the 13



### successful example o f our free market and 14



### guarantees adverse consequences for nearly every 15



### consumer and business in the United States. 16


### American refineries, for example, have been a 17


### tremendous bright spot in the U.S. economy, but 18


### energy is the second largest cost associated w ith 19


### operating a competitive refinery. 20


### Given the potential impact of the rule on 21


### electricity prices, businesses like these will 22

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### have no choice but to reevaluate new investments 1


### based on electricity sources that are less 2



### affordable and less secure. The unc ertainty 3


### caused by this rule could have a chilling effect 4


### on investments throughout the manufacturing 5


### sector, potentially costing millions of jobs and 6


### damaging all aspects of our economy. 7


### Moreover, by eliminating diversity in our 8



### fuel choices, this rule c reates the potential of 9


### future electricity shortages and price spikes 10



### that would do great harm to those who can least 11


### afford it: hardworking American consumers. 12


### Third, we have specific concerns 13


### regarding the proposal and the precedence it 14



### sets. EPA's proposed approach to set 15



### state

- specific emissions reduction goals based on 16


### analysis that takes into account emissions 17



### reductions that occur outside the fence line of 18


### the fossil fuel EGU that are subject to proposed 19


### regulation, EPA's reliance on these 20



### outsi de

- the

- fence

- line options dramatically 21


### expand the scope of the best system of emissions 22

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### reductions, beyond the fossil fuel EGU, subject 1


### to regulation, and exceeds the scope of EPA's 2


### authority under the Clean Air Act. 3



### Furthermore, we think that the final r ule 4


### should indicate explicitly that EPA and the 5


### states do not have the legal authority to require 6



### emissions reductions from outside the EGU. 7


### Finally, we're concerned about the impact 8


### on cogeneration facilities, combined heat and 9


### power facilities capturing utilized heat. The 10



### 111(b) rule needs to be modified to avoid 11


### bringing these sources in, and this 111(d) 12


### rulemaking needs to reflect that. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 15



### Mr. Boone. 16


### MR. BOONE: Yes. My name is Lee Boone. 17



### That's L

- e

- e, B

- o

- o

- n

- e. I am Chairman of the 18



### Heard County Board of Commissioners, which his 19


### located here in Georgia. 20



### I am not here to talk about the science 21



### of carbon emissions because I am not a scientist. 22

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### I am not here to talk about the health aspects of 1



### carbon emissions beca use I am not a medical 2



### doctor. But I am Chief Executive Officer of a 3



### county that has a coal

- fired plant in it. 4


### Georgia Power's Plant Wansley is located 5


### in the northeast portion of Heard County. The 6


### residential growth in the northern portion of the 7



### count y over the past 25 years has been 8


### unprecedented. Georgia Power is the largest 9


### industrial employer in the county and has been 10


### the financial backbone of our community since 11


### they generated the first kilowatt of electricity 12



### from that plant. 13



### I have personally witnessed three 14


### generations of local residents who work there, 15


### live the American dream, by earning a respectable 16


### wage, raise a family, and being able to build a 17



### home to call their own. 18


### Georgia Power is, and has been, the most 19



### sought

- after place to work, and they are in fact 20


### the economic driver for Heard County. 21


### Georgia Power spent millions of dollars 22

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### to build a new scrubber to comply with a change 1


### in EPA regulations to reduce carbon emissions. 2


### Now, as Chairman of the Board, I am in a position 3



### that would make me directly aware of any 4



### health

- related issues in our county as a direct 5



### result of the current emissions, and there are 6



### none that I am aware of. 7


### After the project was complete and a 8


### letter of compliance was achieved, Heard County 9



### was assured on the continuing purchase of coal; 10


### therefore, the county felt confident to proceed 11


### with our long

- term plan of capital improvements. 12



### The sales tax from the purchase of coal 13


### constitutes 35 percent of the total revenues paid 14



### to the General Fund of Heard County. T he 15



### additional 1 cent SPLOST tax on the same coal has 16


### fundamentally transformed Heard County with many 17


### capital improvements. 18



### For example , a once

- volunteer fire 19


### department is now a fully staffed department, 20


### occupying nine fire stations, armed with the 21



### lates t modern equipment, including modern 22

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### ambulances occupied by a paramedic and EMT. 1


### Calls are received and dispatched by a central 2


### communication center with an enhanced 911 system 3


### equipped with the latest in technology. All of 4



### these are 24/7 departments. 5



### T ar a gravel roads are now asphalt roads, 6


### and many dirt roads are now paved roads, and many 7


### homes with wells are now connected to a county 8



### water system. 9


### Our children are enjoying recreation 10



### activities on an 85

- acre sports complex, which 11


### has proven itself b y helping to build character 12



### and discover hidden talents and athletic 13


### abilities they were unaware of. 14



### The local school board sold bonds on 15


### anticipated SPLOST revenues and built new 16


### elementary, middle, and high schools. 17



### There is still bond indebtedness o n these 18


### projects. If the EPA stops the use of coal as a 19


### source to produce energy, the capital projects in 20


### Heard County will abruptly end. Vital services 21


### such as fire protection, EMS, and law enforcement 22

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### directly contributing to the health and welfare 1



### of our citizens will be compromised. Schools may 2


### be forced to close, and the economic impact would 3


### devastating our way of life, undermining 4


### everything we have achieved, and permanently 5


### cripple our infrastructure. 6



### The loss of sales tax revenues from the 7



### elim ination of coal purchases cannot be 8


### transferred to the property owners and will put 9


### Heard County on the road to insolvency. This 10


### will be the fate of our county, and I can only 11


### imagine the devastating ripple effect that will 12



### be felt across this nation. 13



### Th ank you. 14



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Mr. Boone. 15


### [Applause.] 16



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 17



### We will now have Mr. Echols

-- Tim Echols 18



### and John Noel. 19



### If you would, please spell your names for 20



### the transcriber. 21



### Mr. Echols. 22

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### MR. ECHOLS: Good morning. I am Tim 1



### Echols , E

- c

- h

- o

- l

- s, and I am a Commissioner on 2


### the Georgia Public Service Commission. In fact, 3



### we are one of only 12 states that elect our 4


### regulators, and all five of us on the Public 5


### Service Commission face the voters every 6 years. 6


### All five of us have great concern about the rule. 7



### I am here today really to tell you that 8


### Georgia has made enormous progress with air 9


### quality, and it is my hope that the proposed rule 10



### will be withdrawn. 11


### Since 2008 within the Georgia Power 12


### system, did you realize our CO 2 

### is down 30 13



### percent? Mercury and NO x 

### are both down 85 14



### percent, and SO x 

### is down 90 percent. 15


### Today, we have 411 CNG buses in Atlanta's 16


### bus fleet. You may have taken one over this 17


### morning. I came in, in an electric car, and we 18



### are the number

- one market in America for the 19



### Nissan Leaf. I also own one of those. We are 20



### also the fastest

- growing solar state in America, 21


### and by the way, we have done all of this without 22

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### an RPS, and we have done all of this without this 1


### rule. And we've done it all maintaining 2


### competitive rates, which is so important. We've 3


### made great progress, but this rule is going to 4


### force us to strand assets and to raise energy 5


### prices. There's no doubt. 6


### In 2005, 60 percent of Georgia Power's 7


### generation was coal. Today, it's 26 percent. In 8



### 2005, we had only 3 percent of our generation 9


### powered by natural gas. Today, it's almost 30 10



### percent, a ten

- fold growth, and we're building, 11


### as you know, two new nuclear reactors just on the 12


### Savannah River at Plant Vogtle. 13


### It was in February of this year when 14



### Comm issioner McDonald, my colleague, and I sat 15



### with President Obama's climate advisors in the 16


### Old Executive Office Building at their 17



### invitation, where we were told that without a 18


### substantial growth in nuclear power, the 19


### President's clean energy goals could not be met, 20


### yet this rule does not send the signals to 21


### trigger the enormous investment required to do 22

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### what we're doing here in Georgia and over in 1



### South Carolina. 2



### I don't have to tell you that all of the 3


### country's nuclear fleet is under economic stress. 4



### Tha t same low

- cost natural gas that has allowed 5



### us to fuel

- switch all of these coal plants has 6


### made nuclear power less competitive as well, 7


### especially in FERC jurisdictional markets and in 8



### the Wind C orridor in America. 9


### Nuclear generation is undervalued in th e 10


### marketplace. States need to join Georgia and 11


### South Carolina and recognize the importance of 12


### the nuclear fleet and adopt policies that will 13


### allow us to develop reactors like we're doing. 14



### Unfortunately, the rule doesn't go far enough. 15



### In fact, the new r ule, most likely, will make us 16



### even more dependent on natural gas. 17


### A simple calculation illustrated recently 18


### by FERC Commissioner Norris demonstrates that the 19



### country's gas

- fired fleet already emits more CO 2 20


### than our 2050 national target. Therefore, it 21



### s eems paramount that any rule must substantially 22

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### incent new and existing nuclear power far more 1



### than this rule does. The rule's evaluation of 2


### the cost and impact of new requirements assume 3


### that Plant Vogtle's Units 3 and 4 add zero 4


### dollars to Georgia's CO 2 

### reduction efforts. This 5


### rule assumes that the Georgia PSC and Vogtle 6



### owners did not consider the cost of carbon at all 7


### when we certified Plant Vogtle as a 8



### carbon

- free

- emitting resource. Nothing could be 9



### further from the truth. 10


### In fact, our ongoing moni toring of this 11


### plant continues to consider the cost of carbon 12


### every 6 months, but you can bet the cost is not 13



### zero dollars, as this rule assumes. 14


### In fact, in January, during the polar 15


### vortex, natural gas prices soared, especially in 16



### New York and New Engl and. One New York plant 17


### operator told me that it was cheaper to burn oil 18


### in New York State 21 out of the 31 days than 19


### natural gas during the polar vortex. That's a 20



### crisis. 21


### We've built a model here in Georgia that 22

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### provides flexibility, so that we can use the most 1



### cost

- effective fuel source at any time. Under 2


### this rule, that will be over. We have gone to 3


### great lengths to create a diverse portfolio to 4


### protect our ratepayers. This rule unravels all 5


### the planning that we've done for 20 years. Under 6



### this ru le, a good economy becomes an enemy, and a 7


### polar vortex could trigger a substantial fuel 8


### cost. Under this rule, we ignore the impact and 9



### cost to ratepayers. 10


### Let me just wrap up by saying things are 11


### on the right track here in Georgia. This rule 12



### bypasses the federal and state legislature

-- 13



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Mr. Echols. 14



### MR. ECHOLS:

-- ties the hand of the 15


### Governor and usurps my authority as a 16



### constitutional officer. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Mr. Echols. 19



### Mr. Noel, or is it "Noel"? 20



### MR. NO EL: In Christmastime, it's "Noel." 21


### MS. TONEY: All right. Mr. Noel. 22

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### MR. NOEL: All right, thank you. 1



### Well, Mr. Echols, I want you to know I 2



### came in on an electric car, also. 3


### MR. ECHOLS: Congratulations. 4


### MR. NOEL: Good morning, folks, and thank 5



### you to EPA. I am John Noel, President and CEO of 6



### a 40

- year

- old investment real estate company in 7



### Nashville, and I wish to advance the notion that 8


### the recent Environmental Protection Agency rule 9


### to reduce carbon dioxide pollution will be good 10



### for business. 11



### N o industry has been given as much free 12


### rein to pollute our air in our country's history, 13


### and now, thankfully, reasonable action is being 14



### taken. 15



### Here are four reasons why EPA power rules 16


### makes sense and will be good for business. 17


### Number one. It will keep energy costs 18



### low. Under this rule, the states can have a 19


### diversity of cost

- effective options that motivate 20


### innovation. Various scientific reports find that 21


### EPA power plant rules could generate $35 billion 22

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### in savings by 2020, savings businesses' and 1



### cust omers' money, while also creating 275,000 2


### jobs, jobs from solar installers, roofers, 3



### carpenters, and others. 4


### Since 2009, the solar industry has 5


### increased tenfold. Many states are uniquely 6


### positioned to achieve EPA's proposed reductions. 7



### TVA since 2005 h as reduced carbon dioxide 8


### approximately 23 percent, primarily by coal plant 9



### closures, and are on track to be 40 percent. 10


### Colorado and Wisconsin are in a similar position. 11


### Several industry and science studies of 12


### major electrical grid systems, which collec tively 13


### supply some 60 percent of the power to the United 14


### States shows that renewable energy provides 15



### system

- wide cost savings to the tune of tens of 16


### billions of dollars a year. 17



### Number two. This will hasten a 18


### transition to clean energy. There is a natura l 19


### attrition of the closer of existing electrical 20


### coal plants, and according to the CitiGroup, new 21


### electrical generation by 2020 in the U.S. could 22

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### come from renewable energy sources if recent 1


### price trends continue. 2


### The new EPA rules will level the playing 3


### field and encourage more investment in clean 4


### energy. Many states and large companies are 5


### finding renewable energy to be the cheapest 6


### option for electric generation and investing in 7


### these renewables primarily because of the 8



### cost

- effective sources of energy

. 9


### Number three. Businesses are already 10


### paying the price for climate change. More 11


### extreme weather and disorderly weather patterns, 12


### such as precipitation, heat waves, drought, are 13


### disrupting the supply systems and the ability to 14


### produce timely goods and s ervices. 15


### The transportation systems are 16


### compromised by flooding the roads, rivers, and 17



### coastal infrastructure. 18


### On a personal note, I am from Nashville, 19



### and the 2010 flood came within 2 inches of 20


### knocking out the last water treatment plant and 21


### shutting do wn the city's water supply. Due to 22

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### these events, insurance costs have risen across 1


### the business board. Crop yields have become less 2


### predictable and more price volatile. Businesses 3


### are increasingly making the connection between 4


### carbon and climate disrupt ion, recognizing the 5


### risks and understanding that reducing CO 2 

### is 6


### essential for business operations. 7



### With 160

- plus countries and 97 percent of 8


### the climate scientists in agreement, it is clear 9


### that people and co are the main cause of climate 10


### change and its resulting disruption. 11



### The recent Climate Action Assessment 12


### clearly details the far

- reaching consequences 13


### that climate change poses to our health and 14



### natural resources. 15



### And the last one, number four. Business 16



### asserts itself as a world leader. The 17



### admi nistration's CO 2 

### reduction announcements sends 18


### a vigorous message to the world that we are 19



### serious about the climate threat, that the 20


### standards that lay down for the climate action 21


### and stabilization for generations to come will be 22

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### here. Well

- funded climat e deniers will continue 1



### to sow the seeds of doubt, but in truth, these 2



### rules are reasonable and long overdue. These 3


### rules simply make sense for our planet, our 4



### future, and our business. 5



### Thank you. 6



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 7


### [Applause.] 8



### MS. TONE Y: Ladies and gentlemen in the 9


### audience, I appreciate your enthusiasm. Trust 10



### me, I love the energy, but please don't make me 11


### be a spoiled sport. We want to make sure that we 12


### are fair to everyone. 13


### May we have Luis Martinez and Ashten 14


### Bailey please join us on the podium. 15


### As they are coming to the podium, let me 16


### remind those who may have just joined us, please 17


### make sure that you sign in at the EPA 18


### registration table, and we also have materials 19


### there, if you would like more information on 20


### today's topic. 21



### W e have Luis Martinez and Ashten Bailey. 22

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### You are? 1



### MR. MARTINEZ: Luis. 2



### MS. TONEY: Mr. Martinez? 3



### MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. 4


### MS. TONEY: Okay. Ashten Baily going 5


### once, going twice. 6


### [No audible response.] 7



### MS. TONEY: Is Robert Stamper present? 8



### Robert Stampe r. 9



### [Pause.] 10



### MS. TONEY: Go ahead. Thank you. 11


### MR. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Thank you 12


### for the opportunity to speak here today. My name 13



### is Luis, L

- u

- i

- s, Martinez, M

- a

- r

- t

- i

- n

- e

- z, and 14



### I work for the Natural Resources Defense Council 15



### for the past 10 yea rs, and I live in Asheville, 16



### North Carolina. 17



### I am the father of two boys, ages 4 and 18



### 1

- 1/2, who love exploring the outdoors and are 19


### pretty terrified of the crazy thunderstorms we 20


### get lately, and they stand to inherit the 21



### problems that we create. 22

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### I am als o the son of an asthmatic mother, 1


### and even though she tries to not let that slow 2



### her down much, hot days are always very 3



### troublesome. 4



### It is on their behalf and on behalf of 5



### the close to 1.5 million members and activists 6



### that NRDC has that I am here to str ongly support 7


### the Environmental Protection Agency's Clean Power 8



### P lan. I also want to thank EPA and President 9


### Obama for taking action to address climate 10


### change. It is NRDC's top institutional priority 11


### to address climate change, and we believe it is 12



### the gr eatest climate crisis, the greatest 13


### environmental issue that we are facing. 14


### Climate change may be a global problem, 15


### but its impacts are very personal, and none of us 16


### can escape it. My wife and I met in New Orleans 17


### during law school and fell in love with the city. 18


### We left a few years before Katrina hit, but like 19


### many of you, we saw with terror as the storm it 20


### and the lives of our friends, neighbors were 21



### destroyed. 22

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### After 8 years living in northern New 1


### Jersey and working in New York, we left for North 2



### Car olina just a few months before Super Storm 3


### Sandy hit that area, and yet again, we saw the 4


### lives of our friends, neighbors, colleagues 5


### impacted by these extreme weather events. 6


### While we know we were very lucky to not 7


### be in the path of those horrible storms , we also 8


### know that when it comes to climate change, we are 9


### all standing in the path of it, and we need to 10



### address it. 11



### In the Southeast, for example

-- and now 12



### that we are in North Carolina, we know we are in 13


### the path of climate change. In the Southeast, 14


### the National Climate Assessment predicts that we 15


### will experience a greater heat index increase 16


### than any other region in the United States. That 17


### is temperature and humidity or how hot it feels. 18


### The Southeast will be the most impacted region. 19



### We also kno w that since 1980, the 20



### Southeast has had more billion

- dollar weather 21


### disasters than any other region of the United 22

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### States, and climate change is expected to 1



### exacerbate those. 2


### For too long, we have been using our 3


### atmosphere as a giant garbage can to dump 4



### p ollution, only to see it turn around and affect 5



### us. This has never made any sense, and we have 6



### to stop. 7


### Some might say that addressing climate 8


### change will be too difficult or too expensive, 9


### but time and again, we have been able to reduce 10


### pollution faster and cheaper than we foresaw or 11



### that we expected. 12



### In the Northeast, where I used to work, a 13



### group of states came together and created a 14


### program called the Regional Greenhouse Gas 15



### Initiative that has so far, since 2009, reduced 16



### CO 2 

### emissions by about 30 pe rcent, while 17


### generating jobs and while being a lot cheaper 18



### than expected. 19


### In my very own state now, in North 20


### Carolina, we also have a very strong example. In 21



### 2002, North Carolina enacted the Clean 22

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### Smokestacks Act, with the intention of reducing 1



### sulfur di oxides and nitrogen oxides by 70 percent 2


### in about 10 to 12 years. As of right now, that 3


### has been reduced by 90 percent, and the benefits 4


### are an order of magnitude greater than the cost. 5


### Having worked as an environmental 6


### regulator and with numerous agenci es, I commend 7


### EPA's approach to giving states lots of 8


### flexibility and a good amount of time to both 9



### plan and get to where they need to get. We also 10


### believe that EPA's approach of encouraging states 11


### to work together will address cost issues

-- or 12


### help impr ove any cost issues and address any 13


### reliability concerns that they might have. 14


### Finally, we think that renewable energy 15


### and energy efficiency are not only the key to 16


### reducing carbon pollution and fossil fuel 17


### addiction. They also drive jobs in all of these 18


### states, and they reduce energy bills. And we 19



### think these resources can contribute even more to 20



### the Clean Power P lan. 21



### So we need real action, we need it now, 22

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### and we want EPA to move forward. 1


### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Mr. Martinez. 2



### Mr. Stamper. 3



### MR. STAMP ER: Yes, ma'am. Thank you so 4


### much, and good morning, everybody. My name is 5



### Robert Stamper, S

- t

- a

- m

- p

- e

- r. I represent no 6


### organization. I suppose you could say I am here 7


### representing my son Kirk, K

- i

- r

- k, and I have 8


### come to speak specifically about wha t I note is 9


### the last point in the list of request for 10


### comment, the one pertaining to environmental 11


### justice from page 34950 in the Federal Register. 12


### I am not a scientist. My wife actually 13


### is. She is a researcher in cancer prevention and 14



### also in diabetes. I work in real estate 15



### investment. 16



### Both of us are very grateful for the work 17


### done by the EPA. It helps us to find properties, 18



### both to live in or to invest in or to recommend 19



### to others, which are not located in areas which 20


### are being affected negatively b y immediate 21


### proximity to pollution sources. We are able to 22

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### find through the EPA's data that they make 1


### available, places to live in the state where 2


### people don't have to worry about the air that 3


### they are breathing or what is being produced by 4



### local industri es, and so thank you so much for 5


### the role that the EPA plays in making that 6



### information available. 7


### In speaking with people about pollution 8


### and its dangers, we have noted that the people 9


### who take those questions most seriously are those 10



### who personally have been affected by a serious 11


### illness or an early death. Those people are 12


### always very, very concerned about the information 13


### that we found about pollution sources in their 14


### area and always want to know what the pollution 15


### is, the effects of it, how prevalent i t is, how 16


### closely they can live to the source and still be 17



### safe, because they have actually lost someone for 18


### a cause they can't pinpoint. 19


### In terms of environmental justice, 20


### thinking about the presentations that have been 21



### made so far, we have heard a lot o f horrifying 22

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### stories, or at least I have

-- they were 1


### horrifying to me

-- about millions of jobs lost, 2


### industries crushed, school systems collapsing, 3



### horrible futures. Who knows what to believe? 4


### I think as a father, as somebody who 5



### cares very deeply abou t living in a clean place, 6


### about preserving this world for my son, for our 7



### ch ildren. I hope that in the name of 8


### environmental justice, we will err on the side of 9


### caution and on the side of doing whatever we 10



### believe based on the best available evidence is 11



### likeliest to least to the best result for the 12


### maximum number of people. 13


### And to me, it's very clear that the Clean 14



### Power Plan that has been proposed by the 15


### government is a very positive step in that 16


### direction. It may have environmental costs, but 17



### then aga in, those costs are costs that I am 18


### willing to bear, willing to discuss with people 19


### of good faith and conscience in order to protect 20


### our planet and my family. 21


### And so thank you so much for giving us 22

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### this opportunity. I'm very grateful for it. 1



### Thank you. 2



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. Thank you both, 3



### gentlemen. 4



### At this time, can we have Claudia Hanes 5


### and Ashten Bailey. Claudia Hanes and Ashten 6


### Bailey. 7



### [Pause.] 8


### MS. TONEY: Good morning, ladies. We 9


### will begin with Ms. Hanes. 10


### MS. HANES: My name is Claudia Ha nes, 11



### C

- l

- a

- u

- d

- i

- a, H

- a

- n

- e

- s. I am a Kentuckian. I 12



### am also a retired teacher of middle school 13


### students for 31 years, an atheist, and the Social 14


### Justice Action Committee Chair of my local 15



### Unitarian Universalist Church. 16


### I dream of a just, healthy, econom ically 17


### stable community, where the uniqueness of Planet 18


### Earth is celebrated and protected, and for that 19


### reason, I appreciate so much that we in this 20


### country have an agency that is solely dedicated 21


### to protecting Planet Earth. 22

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### I believe human rights include air that 1


### is breathable, land that supports life, and water 2


### that is not toxic. Earth is a fragile place, and 3


### I know your agency has been tasked with a 4


### daunting mission of protecting her. 5



### I am convinced that we stand at a 6


### critical point in time and must a ccept, as a 7


### society and a world community, our responsibility 8


### to take actions that address global climate 9


### challenges that are threatening life on Earth as 10


### we have always known it. 11


### As an atheist, I place no hope in other 12


### people's deities to magically fix t he damage that 13


### humanity is doing to Earth. We are all we have. 14



### We are all Earth has to protect and save her. We 15



### are it. 16


### I would like to quote a famous author, 17


### Kurt Vonnegut. This is called "Requi em ." The 18



### crucified Planet Earth, should it find a voice 19


### and sense of irony, might now well say of our 20


### abuse of it, "Forgive them, Father. They know 21


### not what they do." The irony would be we do know 22

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### what we're doing. When the last living thing has 1


### died on account of us, how fitting it would be if 2



### Earth could say in a voice floating up from the 3


### Grand Canyon, "It is done." People did not like 4



### it here. 5



### EPA leaders, your clean power rule must 6


### be strengthened. As currently written, they are 7


### inadequate. The clean power plant rules must 8


### include just economic tran sition for coal workers 9


### and communities. The targets for reducing carbon 10


### emissions by 2030 are too low and don't reduce 11


### climate change risk enough. You underestimate 12


### energy efficiency potential. You dangerously 13


### underestimate climate and health consequen ces of 14


### switching from coal to gas, natural gas, and your 15



### clean power rule must be federally enforceable 16


### with consequential, real penalties for 17


### noncompliance. 18


### I give as an example our Kentucky 19


### legislators who have recently passed House Bill 20



### 388 in which th ey don't intend to comply with any 21


### of it. They are not speaking for Kentuckians, 22

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### but they are absolutely speaking for fossil fuel 1



### industries. Put some teeth in the 2


### accountability. 3


### And I have another quick quote from Kurt 4


### again: There is no reason good can't triumph 5


### over evil. If only the angels would get 6


### organized along the lines of the Mafia. 7


### Finally, the rule doesn't effectively 8


### protect the health of communities that are most 9


### affected by the consequences of pollution. Year 10



### after year after year, I attend the I Love 11


### Mountains Action in Frankfurt, Kentucky, and 12



### people from eastern Kentucky come. They talk 13


### about how their drinking water is ruined, and 14


### their mountaintops are gone, and their kids are 15


### sick, and they have no way to fight back. You 16



### are th eir champions. Please listen to them. 17



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 18


### Ms. Bailey. 19


### MS. BAILEY: Hi. Good morning. My name 20


### is Ashten Bailey, and I am Staff Attorney at 21



### Greenlaw. That is A

- s

- h

- t

- e

- n, B

- a

- i

- l

- e

- y. I 22

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### focus on air and energy law here in Georgia. I 1


### am here today to voice support for EPA's decision 2


### to address carbon pollution from existing power 3



### plants. 4



### However, before I get to that, I would 5


### like to start off by saying that I am very proud 6



### to be an American, and I choose to live in the 7



### Southeast b ecause I love the land and the people 8


### here. But after hearing much of the commentary 9


### surrounding this rule, I am wondering if a lot of 10


### us haven't forgotten our history. 11


### Part of what I love about this country is 12


### our innovative thinking, and it is helpful to put 13


### the Clean Power Plan proposal into our historical 14



### context. 15



### In 1960, no human had even been in outer 16



### space, and a mere 9 years later, the U.S. had 17



### landed an astronaut on the Moon. To put that 18


### another way, Neil Armstrong landed on the Moon 19



### and retur ned safely in 1969, even though 10 years 20


### earlier, it was impossible. We didn't even have 21



### the technology to be able to do that. 22

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### In contrast to our mission to the Moon, 1



### we have no choice but to address carbon 2


### pollution. Climate destruction challenges our 3


### way of life and our very existence on this 4


### planet. Our land is disappearing, our food is 5


### getting more expensive, and our national security 6


### and economic viability as a country are very much 7



### at risk if we do not move now to address climate 8


### disruption. 9



### With this backdrop, it is hard to 10


### understand why some are so opposed to this rule, 11


### especially when we have the technology now to 12


### begin to addressing carbon pollution in a 13



### cost

- effective manner. 14



### I am very glad the EPA has proposed to 15


### regulate carbon pollution from existing power 16


### plants, which are one of the most significant 17


### emitters of carbon pollution, and I am going to 18


### spend the rest of my time talking about Georgia 19



### under the proposed rule. 20



### While overall, the rule could be 21


### strengthened to increase carbon red uctions in 22

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### other states and can be strengthened in the 1


### future, EPA's 44.4 percent reduction for Georgia 2



### is fair, and it is achievable. The calculation 3


### for Georgia is fair for a number of reasons, 4


### including location of pollution sources and cost 5



### effectiven ess of addressing carbon pollution in 6


### Georgia. 7


### We have the largest single source of 8


### greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S. sitting in 9



### our back yard, Plant Scherer. Everyone who 10


### receives power or profit from this plant has a 11


### responsibility to address the po llution that also 12


### comes from it, and we in Georgia can do that by 13


### moving away from coal

- fired power and upping our 14


### investments in renewables and energy efficiency. 15



### The cost effectiveness of renewable and 16


### energy efficiency resources is another reason 17



### that this rule is fair to Georgia. Georgia's 18


### largest utility has already said that wind 19


### resources from the Midwest put downward pressure 20


### on rates. They have also said that solar 21



### resources do not put upward pressure on rates. 22

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### It is widely accepted that it is generally 1



### cheaper to create a "negawatt" than a megawatt. 2


### All of these resources provide more rate 3


### stability than resources that require wanting to 4


### purchase fuels, like coal

- and natural gas

- fired 5



### units. 6


### So what does this mean in plain English? 7



### That if we move toward renewables and energy 8


### efficiency, we will have a clean, safe, and 9


### affordable energy here in Georgia. 10


### Turning to my other point, a 44.4 percent 11


### reduction in carbon pollution from Georgia is 12


### also technologically feasible. With respect to 13



### ene rgy efficiency, the American Council for an 14


### Energy Efficient Economy found that Georgia could 15


### save 24 percent of its generation, or 16


### approximately 34 million megawatt

- hours just 17


### through energy efficiency. 18


### The National Renewable Energy Laboratory 19



### estimated technical potential for renewables in 20


### Georgia to be over 5,000 terawatt

- hours, and that 21



### number does not include Midwest wind or 22

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### technological advances, like higher hub height 1



### wind. 2


### Again, what does this mean in plain 3


### English? That we still have a lot of room for 4


### energy efficiency and renewables in Georgia, and 5


### that even if Plant Vogtle didn't expand, we could 6


### still meet the 834 pounds per megawatt

- hour that 7


### EPA has proposed for Georgia. 8


### To wrap up, we can achieve substantial 9


### reductions in carbon pollutio n in a 10



### cost

- effective manner, both in Georgia and across 11



### the United States. We can do this with the 12



### technology we have now, and we can use our 13



### American innovation to make more reductions in 14


### the future. We need to take this step now, so 15



### that future genera tions will have a brighter 16


### future and the opportunity to take their own 17



### leaps. 18



### Thank you very much. 19


### MS. TONEY: Thank you both, ladies. 20



### We will now hear from Darel Preble and 21


### Anne Mellinger

- Birdsong. 22

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### Sir, did I pronounce your last name 1



### correctly? 2



### MR. PREBLE: Close enough for government 3



### work. 4


### [Laughter.] 5



### MS. TONEY: Is it "Preble"? 6



### MR. PREBLE: "Preble" is correct. 7



### MS. TONEY: Preble, okay. 8


### And, Ms. Birdsong? 9


### All right. We will begin with Mr. 10



### Preble. 11



### MR. PREBLE: I worked in the

-- 12



### MS. TONEY: You can give us the spelling 13



### of your name. 14



### MR. PREBLE:

-- Strategic Planning Group 15


### at Southern Company when I left there in 1997. 16



### MR. HUTSON: Spell your name, please. 17



### MR. PREBLE: I'm sorry? 18



### MR. HUTSON: Spell your name. 19



### MS. TONEY: Spell your name

. 20



### MR. PREBLE: The first name or the last 21



### name? D

- a

- r

- e

- l, P

- r

- e

- b

- l

- e. I am with the 22

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### Space Solar Power Institute, a non

- profit. 1



### In the last 20 years, the world has spent 2


### $2 trillion building renewable power plants. We 3



### have accelerated the growth of C O 2 

### during that 4



### time. CO 2 

### is growing at five times the rate that 5


### it was when we first started measuring it in the 6



### late '50s. 7


### The bottom line is the power companies 8


### simply don't have the technical generation 9


### necessary to fully address our massive CO 2 

### , 10



### econ omic, and environmental problems. The only 11


### generation technology adequate to address the 12


### massive electrical generation technology we need, 13


### without adversely affecting our economy and our 14


### environment is space solar power. 15


### Japan and China are aggressively pursuing 16


### this. I will be visiting China in September. 17


### The Chair of our workshop in Microwave Power 18


### Transmission will be teaching this in Chins this 19


### fall. It is a simple choice. We can pursue this 20


### in the United States or buy it from Japan and 21



### China. 22

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### We are prepared within the university 1


### systems to do this. It is not simple. It is not 2


### cheap. It is not easy, but building Hoover Dam 3


### was also not simple, not cheap, and not easy. We 4


### can do this. The technology exists. It is all 5



### about us. We have thous ands of satellites 6


### already operating in space. We understand that 7



### environment. 8


### It is better to have a direct tap to the 9


### sun than putting nuclear processes a hundred 10



### miles from Atlanta. 11


### The typical average income of the median 12


### American has dropped 36 pe rcent in the last 10 13


### years. The price of electricity to the average 14


### American has gone up 42 percent. The problems 15


### that we face are simply not able to be addressed 16


### directly by forcing the utilities to do this. 17


### The reason is they are not charged to build 18


### high

- risk ventures like this. Even NASA is not 19


### chartered to do this. They are a public company. 20


### What we need to do, just as we chartered 21


### COMSAT Corporation in 1962 to build a 22

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### communications satellite industry, which has been 1



### very successful, we must cha rter a power 2


### satellite company. I call it "sunset 3


### corporation." We have draft legislation 4



### available to do this. 5


### This is really the only viable pathway. 6


### There's no venture capitalists going to fund this 7


### because it simply doesn't fit the venture capital 8


### model of invest $10 million and get twice that 9



### out a few years later. They get glazed over when 10


### you talk about this, as you can imagine. 11


### This is exactly what Japan has done. 12


### This is a public private venture, and this is 13


### what we need to be doing. 14



### Thank you. 15



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 16


### Ms. Birdsong. 17



### DR. MELLINGER

- BIRDSONG: Hi. A

- n

- n

- e, 18



### M

- e

- l

- l

- i

- n

- g

- e

- r, hyphen, B

- i

- r

- d

- s

- o

- n

- g. 19


### Hello, and thank you for letting me speak 20


### today. My name is Anne Mellinger

- Birdsong. I am 21


### a pediatrician, an epidemiologist, and a parent. 22

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### I am here today to speak in favor of the proposed 1


### rule for carbon pollution. 2


### The American Academy of Pediatrics' 3



### statement about the proposed rule states that 4


### while we often think of climate change in terms 5



### of environmental effects, there are also 6



### wide

- reaching health impacts that are especially 7


### damaging to vulnerable populations like children. 8


### These health impacts include the broad effect of 9



### weather disasters, increases in rain shifts and 10



### climate

- sensitive infections, increases in 11


### allergi c and asthmatic diseases, food and water 12


### insecurity, and increased heat

- related deaths. 13


### Also, as climate change accelerates, 14



### children will continue to suffer 15


### disproportionately. In fact, according to the 16



### WHO, more than 80 percent of the current health 17



### bu rden due to the changing climate occurs in 18


### children younger than 5 years old. Children are 19


### not just little adults. They breathe faster. 20


### They spend more time outside, and they have 21


### proportionately greater skin surface exposed to 22

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### the environment, making t hem especially 1


### vulnerable to all environmental exposures. 2


### The AAP policy statement on climate 3


### change notes that because of their physical, 4


### physiologic, and cognitive immaturity, children 5



### are often most vulnerable to adverse health 6



### effects from environment al hazards. Anticipated 7


### direct health consequences of climate change 8


### include injury and death from extreme weather 9



### events and natural disasters, increase in 10



### infectious diseases, increases in air 11


### pollution

- related illness, and more heat

- related 12



### illness. W ithin all of these categories, 13


### children have increased vulnerability compared 14


### with other groups. 15


### Children are dependent on their parents 16


### or adult caregivers for food, shelter, and 17


### physical safety. They cannot choose where they 18


### live, where they go to scho ol, or the quality of 19


### the air they breathe. They are dependent on 20



### adult decision

- makers to set policies which 21


### provide the best living conditions for health, 22

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### growth, and learning. 1


### Climate change is anticipated to cause 2



### more draughts, more floods, and more extreme 3


### weather events. During these events, children 4



### are more vulnerable because they are dependent on 5


### adults for aiding and protecting them, telling 6



### them what to do, where to go, how to reach safety 7



### or shelter, or to escape. 8


### Climate change is antici pated to cause an 9


### increase in air pollution with increased 10


### temperatures allowing formation of more ozone and 11


### particulate air pollution. Ozone causes asthma 12


### attacks, respiratory symptoms, hospitalizations, 13



### school absences, decreased lunch function, and 14



### als o decreased lung growth and through the 15


### teenage years. Children are more vulnerable to 16


### air pollution because they breathe more air per 17


### body mass than adults. They spend more time 18


### playing outdoors, and because their lungs are 19


### growing and developing. Chil dren's lungs develop 20



### all the way through the teenage years. 21


### Reducing carbon pollution will also 22

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### reduce other pollutants and reduce the burden of 1


### air pollution now and into the future, preventing 2



### up to 4,100 premature deaths and 100,000 asthma 3



### attacks in 2 020. 4


### Climate change is anticipated to expand 5


### the range of vectors, which transmit disease to 6


### humans, such as mosquitoes, ticks, and rodents. 7



### Examples of vector

- borne diseases we have in the 8


### United States which could be affected by this 9


### include Lyme disea se, West Nile, Rocky Mountain 10


### Spotted Fever, and Hantavirus. All of these 11


### could increase as the growing season becomes 12



### longer and the range of the vectors expands. 13


### Examples of other diseases which could be 14


### imported to the U.S. as their vector base expand s 15


### includes malaria, dengue fever, and yellow fever. 16


### Again, children are more vulnerable to these 17


### diseases because they spend more time outdoors 18


### and are less likely to use protective measures. 19


### It is possible for humans to adapt to 20



### some of the effects of c limate change, for 21


### example, by improving weather forecasting, 22

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### disaster planning, and developing new vaccines 1


### and medicines. However, it is far better to try 2


### to do all that we can now to prevent the buildup 3


### of greenhouse gases and reduce the impacts of 4



### cli mate change. 5



### Therefore, I support the new EPA carbon 6


### standards. They are crucial for our health and 7



### well

- being. 8



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. Thank you both. 9


### Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we 10


### are going to take a very, very quick 5

- minute 11


### break to give e verybody an opportunity to stand 12



### up, stretch. 13


### Give yourselves a round of applause 14


### because we haven't had a chance to officially do 15



### that, so thank you. 16


### [Applause.] 17


### MS. TONEY: It is approximately 10:50. 18


### We will start promptly at 10:55, and our next two 19


### speakers, if they will make their way forward 20


### that time, is Roby Greenwald and Benton 21


### Wislinski. I will see you back at 10:55. 22

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### [Recess taken from 10 to 10:55 a.m.] 1



### MS. TONEY: Let's get started. We have 2


### been listening intently to all of the comments 3



### th at have been made. You have been so wonderful 4


### and so patient. 5


### This next session or next part of this 6


### session, it will be ending and wrapping up the 7


### morning session. 8


### If you have signed up to speak, please 9


### make sure that the registration desk knows that, 10


### so that they can make sure they are bringing us 11


### the cards. I do not have the list of speakers up 12


### here with me, but they are coming to us as they 13


### are put in order. 14


### Again, just a reminder that we are

-- and 15


### we have done an amazing job. I really appreciate 16


### everyone being so respectful of all of our 17


### speakers and listening intently. 18


### We do have a very strict 5

- minute time 19


### limit. At the point in time that that 5 minutes 20


### is up, first, you will see the green flash. The 21


### green flash will let you know that you ha ve 1 22

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### minute remaining. The yellow light is the 1 1


### minute. Once the yellow light begins flashing, 2


### then the red light will come on. At the buzzer, 3



### that means a hard stop. We do that to try to 4



### make sure that we hear from each and every person 5



### that we have on our list today, so thank you so 6



### much. 7


### At this time, we are going to hear from 8


### Roby Greenwald. Did I pronounce that correctly? 9


### MR. GREENWALD: That is correct, yes. 10



### MS. TONEY: Okay. Then after Mr. 11


### Greenwald, Mr. Wislinski. If you would, please 12



### spe ll your names for the transcribers. 13



### Mr. Greenwald. 14


### MR. GREENWALD: Thank you. My name is 15


### Roby Greenwald. That is R

- o

- b

- y, 16



### G

- r

- e

- e

- n

- w

- a

- l

- d. 17


### I am on the faculty of the Rollins School 18


### of Public Health, Emory University, here in 19



### Atlanta, and I am a scie ntist that studies the 20


### influence of air pollution exposure on human 21



### health. 22

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### I did not come here today, though, to 1



### speak as a scientist. I came here as a concerned 2


### citizen and as a parent. 3


### I have a child who was born last year. I 4



### have another child who will be born later on this 5


### year. So, in other words, my children are going 6


### to be the age that I am now in middle part of the 7


### 2050s, and they are going to be in their 70s in 8


### the 2080s. My hope for future grandchildren will 9


### be entering the prime of their l ife at the end of 10


### this century and will be entering their senior 11


### years in the beginning of the next century. That 12


### is the time scale that I am thinking about this 13



### issue on. 14



### The reason I am so concerned about this 15


### is because the world that my children are going 16


### to inherit in the middle to latter part of this 17


### century is going to look significantly different 18



### from the world that we live in now if we take no 19



### further action on this issue. 20


### For example, here in Atlanta, under the 21


### current climate regime that we ar e used to and we 22

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### have been experiencing for the last several 1


### decades, it is very unusual for us to have more 2


### than 1 day in a summer where the temperature is 3


### over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. In a typical series 4


### of summers, we might have 2 or 3 days like that 5



### e very couple of years. 6


### By the current projections under the 7



### business

- as

- usual climate scenario, by the latter 8


### part of this century, we are going to have 30 or 9


### more days in the summer where the maximum 10


### temperature is over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. This 11



### is so mething that is already being experienced in 12



### the desert Southwest; however, there is one 13



### notable distinction between us and the desert 14



### Southwest, and that is that we have relative 15


### humidities that are 60 to 70 percent in the 16


### summertime compared to very low, zero to 10 17


### percent, in the desert Southwest. 18


### The combination of 60 percent humidity 19


### and 100 degrees Fahrenheit in terms of heat index 20


### is approximately equal to 135 degrees and 10 21


### percent relative humidity. Nobody is used to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### that. That is borderline unl ivable conditions, 1


### and we will have 30 days like that in the typical 2


### summertime by the end of this century if we do 3


### nothing at all. 4



### So I am very concerned about that for my 5


### children and my future grandchildren. I am also 6



### concerned about many of the other health effects 7


### that would be related to this, besides simply 8


### heat. For example, we're going to have changes 9


### in food supply security. It is virtually 10


### unpredictable right now with a projected 3 to 4 11


### degrees Celsius change in global temperature what 12



### the in fluence would be on the food supply, but 13


### it's not good, and that carries all kinds of 14


### geopolitical ramifications, as well, when you 15


### start having reduced food security. 16


### In addition, there will be changes in the 17



### spread of vector

- borne diseases. Many diseas es 18


### are limited in range by maximum summertime 19


### temperature; for example, Lyme disease is 20


### restricted, dengue fever, malaria, West Nile 21


### virus. All of these diseases are going to expand 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### in range in two areas in the United States where 1


### they have not previously been experienced, and 2


### that is going to have pronounced public health 3


### implications. 4


### In addition to that, there's going to be 5


### issues related to air quality. For example, 6


### right now, one of the issues that I've studied 7


### professionally is looking at exposure to ozone 8


### and particulate matter related to transportation 9



### sources on human health. The concentrations of 10


### ozone in the future, if the emissions are exactly 11


### the same, are going to increase because of 12


### weather patterns related to higher temperatures 13



### and more stagnant air masses over urban areas, 14


### and that is going to reduce air quality, and it 15


### is going to result in public health issues 16


### related to pediatric respiratory health and a 17


### couple of other major diseases. 18



### For these reasons, I am really concerned 19



### about w hat the global environment is going to 20


### look like mid and later century. This is a very 21


### significant issue that requires global actions, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### and the United States has to provide some 1


### pronounced leadership on this in order to have 2


### any kind of global action take place. 3


### So that is why I thoroughly support his 4


### rule. It is, frankly, inadequate, but it is the 5



### best tool we have in our arsenal at this time to 6


### address this issue. Without any action on this, 7


### we are not going to see any subsequent action 8



### from other worl d powers, as well, such as China 9


### is currently discussing internally what their 10


### future climate projections are going to be, what 11


### their future targets on CO 2 

### emissions are going to 12


### be. They are not going to act unilaterally if we 13


### provide no leadership at al l on this issue, which 14


### is why I think it's very important for the EPA to 15


### take a leadership role on this. 16



### That's all I have to say. Thanks. 17



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 18



### Mr. Wislinski. 19



### MR. WISLINSKI: Sure. Thank you for 20


### having me. My name is Benton Wislins ki. That is 21



### B

- e

- n

- t

- o

- n; Wislinski, W

- i

- s

- l

- i

- n

- s

- k

- i. I 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### serve as the Director of Conservation Advocacy 1



### for the South Carolina Wildlife Federation, and I 2


### myself am an avid hunter and fisher. 3



### The South Carolina Wildlife Federation 4


### was founded in 1931 by a handful of sportsmen who 5



### recruited other outdoor enthusiasts. We are the 6



### oldest South Carolina

- based conservation 7


### organization, and our mission is to advocate for 8



### wildlife habitat and the environment, to educate 9



### citizens in the conservation ethic, and t o 10


### support outdoor traditions. 11



### I am here today to speak about the 12


### effects of climate change on our wildlife natural 13



### resources and habitats. I was born and raised in 14



### South Carolina, and as I said, I do a lot of 15


### hunting and fishing. As an outdoor enthusias t 16


### and sportsman, I have been fortunate to enjoy the 17


### abundant wildlife and fishery resources in our 18


### state. The evidence is overwhelming. 19



### In South Carolina, as is true for most 20


### coastal states, adverse impacts will be 21


### particularly devastating to coastal res ources, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### and we worry not only for the impact on fish and 1


### wildlife along the coast but also of what's to 2



### come in the future, unless we act now. 3


### As someone with ties to our precious 4


### coast, I can say that we have no more time to 5



### waste. The South Carolina De partment of Natural 6


### Resources recently issued a climate change 7


### report, and it lists the following impacts: 8


### detrimental change in habitat, detrimental change 9



### in abundance and distribution of species, 10


### detrimental change in biodiversity and ecosystem 11



### service s, detrimental change to the traditional 12


### uses of natural resources, detrimental change in 13


### the abundance and quality of water, and 14


### detrimental change in sea level. 15


### These effects are brought about by rising 16


### sea levels, warming temperatures, and changes in 17



### p recipitation patterns, especially increased 18


### drought, and act synergistically to compound the 19


### severity of impacts. For example, less 20



### drought

- induced river and stream flow allows 21



### grea ter saltwater intrusion and sea

- level rises. 22

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### Affected coastal resources s upport large 1


### tourism, recreational, and commercial fishing, 2


### waterfowl hunting, and recreational activities, 3


### including ecotourism. South Carolina's beaches 4


### alone generate about $3.5 billion annually and 5


### support 81,000 jobs. Fishing, hunting, and 6



### wildlife viewing contribute almost $2.2 billion 7



### annually to our economy and support nearly 59,000 8


### jobs. 9



### As sea

- level rises, critical habitat 10


### types that contribute to ecosystem services and 11


### economics and general public enjoyment of the 12



### coast will be threatened. Th ese include salt 13



### marshes, mud flats, beach hammocks, maritime 14



### forests, and tidal brackish and freshwater 15



### systems. 16


### These habitats provide nurseries for 17



### commercial and recreational

- sought fisheries and 18


### critical nesting, feeding, and wintering habitat 19



### for s horebirds, wading birds, marsh

- dependent 20


### birds, sea turtles, and many other wildlife 21


### species too numerous to list. 22

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### South Carolina also supports 1


### approximately 70,000 acres of managed wetland 2


### impoundments, many of which are remnants of 3



### historic rice fields. These serve as wintering 4


### habitat for migratory waterfowl, wading birds, 5



### and a host of other wildlife. 6



### Sea

- level rise compounded by drops in 7


### river flow due to increased droughts will make it 8


### difficult and probably impossible in the long 9



### term to continue management of these areas, 10


### particularly for important brackish and 11


### freshwater impoundments. 12


### Private and government impoundment 13


### managers in many basins are already experiencing 14


### significant problems in controlling dike topping 15


### and saltwater intrusion. Impo rtant coastal 16


### habitat provided by maritime forest associations 17


### in our barrier islands will disappear, as will 18


### coastal hammocks. Hammocks are small, unique 19


### coastal islands associated with large barrier 20



### islands. 21


### These ecosystems provide valuable resting 22

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### an d feeding stations for migratory shore birds 1



### and natural refuges for coastal mammals, 2


### including deer otter, mink, and others that 3


### provide critical migratory bird habitus. 4


### Monogamous fish runs, already greatly 5


### isolated from historic spawning grounds by dam s, 6


### will be impacted as saltwater moves further up 7


### the river systems of the state, further reducing 8


### needed freshwater spawning habitats. Lots of 9


### monogamous fish, young

- of

- year, outwelling into 10


### the ocean will reduce food availability in the 11


### marine system an d affect marine fish stocks. 12


### The severity of climate

- related impacts 13


### is also compounded through past, present, and 14


### future cumulative impacts on the coastal 15


### landscape, making it more difficult for systems 16


### to adapt to climate changes. These will lead to 17



### ha rdened shorelines, precluding migration of 18


### coastal marshes, dams preventing seaward sediment 19


### migration, and shortstopping monogamous fish 20


### runs. At best, adaptation of species and 21


### habitats to climate change is unlikely to occur 22

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### without significant losses f or both. 1


### For these reasons, it is imperative that 2


### we invest in significant mitigation strategies by 3


### reducing carbon emissions; hence, we strongly 4



### support the proposed EPA 111(d) rule. 5



### Thank you. 6



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, gentlemen. 7



### Our next speakers are B randon Presley and 8



### Jim Jess. 9



### [Pause.] 10


### MS. TONEY: We will begin with Mr. 11


### Presley in just a moment. 12



### Mr. Presley. 13



### MR. PRESLEY: Thank you very much. 14


### Administrator Toney, I will tell the group, you 15



### and I knew each other in a former life when we 16



### both ser ved as mayors together in Mississippi, 17


### and so it's good to be here, and thank you for 18


### giving us this opportunity. 19



### I am here today to offer comments not on 20


### behalf of the entire Mississippi Public Service 21


### Commission. I don't have the luxury to speak for 22

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### m y colleagues but to speak for myself and my role 1



### as Commissioner for the Northern District of 2


### Mississippi. 3



### These rules, as proposed, have a 4


### detrimental effect to Mississippians as they 5



### stand today, as the rules stand today, based on 6



### several investments th at our state has made to 7


### try to, one, comply with existing rules of the 8


### Environmental Protection Agency and also to bring 9


### about diversity to our electric mix and electric 10


### generation mix in Mississippi. 11


### As of today, the State of Mississippi has 12



### invested in just two projects alone, well over 13


### $850 million in increased projects and generation 14


### for the folks in our state. One is to comply 15


### with EPA regulations at Plant Daniel for 16


### Mississippi Power. The Public Service Commission 17


### approved $600 million in cost to clean up the 18



### environmental controls on Plant Daniel that serve 19


### the Gulf Coast region of our state, which caused 20



### a rate increase for those folks, and based on the 21


### rules as they are presented today, that $600 22

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### million isn't worth a penny. That $600 million 1



### i s lost. That doesn't count into the fact that 2


### that Plant Daniel and the upgrades that were done 3



### there have a 25

- year life expectancy that can 4


### provide good electricity to the people of South 5


### Mississippi who have been faced not only with 6



### Hurricane Katrina b ut with the BP oil spill and 7


### with an economy that is struggling to get up and 8


### running in our state. That $600 million, it's 9



### lost because these rules use a 2012 benchmark, so 10


### that is the first problem and error that just 11


### jumps out with this. 12


### Secondly is M ississippi was proud

-- and 13



### I was proud to vote

-- to uprate Grand Gulf 14


### Nuclear Station in Port Gibson to be the largest 15


### standalone nuclear power plant in the United 16



### States of America. We were able to take that 17



### and, to use a layman's term, do a tune

- up at 18



### Grand Gulf and get 178 more megawatts of 19


### electricity out of that plant. That is a $250 20


### million cost to the people of Mississippi

-- 21


### Entergy Mississippi

-- and that is not counted 22

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### for and doesn't mean anything when these rules go 1


### into place. It is not co unted. We don't get 2


### credit for that, although that provides very 3


### inexpensive electricity to the people of our 4



### state, and it's an investment that's been made. 5



### We all want clean air. We all want clean 6



### water. We wall want a safe environment. There 7



### is nob ody out here, no matter what your opinion 8


### of this issue, that don't want that, but my 9



### concerns are economical. And while we talk about 10


### green, one of the greens that worries me is this 11


### green, and that is the dollar bills that are 12


### going to be paid by folks in our state for 13



### unfunded mandates. 14


### There is no funding attached to this to 15


### help pay for it. It has to be picked up on the 16


### backs of the working people, small businesses, 17


### and industry in Mississippi who

-- quite frankly, 18


### right now we have the highest unem ployment in the 19



### United States of America, and these rules don't 20



### help that at all. 21



### While I understand the need to want to 22

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### make sure that we do everything we can, again, to 1



### have clean air and clean water. We must be 2


### cognizant of the dollar bills and of the small 3



### business owners and mom

- and

- pops. 4


### We are in the State of Georgia. I want 5


### to quote former Governor Zell Miller, who talked 6


### about the small business owner who stays open 7



### late and calls her customers by name, and the 8


### farmers that plant their own crop s and bale their 9


### own hay, these are the people that are going to 10


### have to pay for these upgrades when there is no 11


### mechanism to help with that. 12


### This rule is flawed. This rule is very 13


### flawed when it looks at states like Mississippi 14



### and doesn't take into acc ount the investments 15


### that our people have already made and the life 16



### expectancy of plants that have already been 17


### environmentally controlled because the rules 18



### continue to shift, and so we have one set of 19


### rules. We spend $600 million to comply with 20



### that, and the rules change. 21


### We simply cannot afford to keep going in 22

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### that direction and not knowing where these 1


### investments pay off. This rule is flawed. 2


### I was in a meeting yesterday with FERC 3


### Commissioner Tony Clark, who said that much of 4



### this is based on the m odels in the New England 5



### states and California, the RGGI model and the 6


### California model, which produce the highest rates 7



### in the United States of America. The biggest 8


### reliability problem is on the electric grid. We 9


### don't need to export that throughout thi s 10



### country. 11



### I would ask the EPA and ask all of you 12



### all to take these comments to heart and to 13


### remember the folks who are going to have to pay 14



### the bills for this. There is no Santa Claus. 15


### There is no Tooth Fairy. Nobody is going to drop 16



### the money out of the sky to pay for these 17


### upgrades. It is going to be the people that I 18



### represent and the people that you represent, 19


### quite frankly, as members of the federal 20



### government, so please remember that. 21


### We have made good investments in 22

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### Mississippi, and we have tr ied to do what's 1


### right. We would ask for that to be recognized. 2



### Thank you very much. 3



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 4


### [Applause.] 5



### MS. TONEY: Mr. Jess? 6


### MR. JESS: Thank you. My name is Jim 7



### Jess. Last name is J

- e

-- 8



### MS. TONEY: Wait a minute. We want to 9



### mak e sure you get your full time. Give us just a 10



### moment. 11



### MR. JESS: Oh, okay. 12



### MS. TONEY: Okay, go ahead, Mr. Jess. 13


### MR. JESS: My name is Jim Jess. The last 14


### name is spelled J

- e

- s

- s. I am Vice Chairman of 15


### the Georgia Tea Party. 16


### George Tea Party, Inc., i s a 501(c)(4) 17



### non

- profit organization based in Marietta, 18


### Georgia. Our mission statement is to impact 19


### public policy by teaching all who seek to learn 20


### the principles and spirit of individual liberty 21


### and constitutionally limited self

- government. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Since 2009, we have educated and 1


### organized citizens and met with local, state, and 2



### federal elected officials and candidates, 3


### informing them of our desire to restore our 4


### constitutional republic. We reach several 5



### thousand people through our e

- mail list, and 6



### about 50 a ctivists are engaged with our various 7



### task forces. 8


### This past May, GeorgiaPundit.com referred 9


### to Georgia Tea Party as, quote, one of the 10


### stronger and more effective Tea Party groups in 11



### the state, and there are about a hundred. 12


### Georgia Tea Party opposes th is 13


### overreaching and extreme Clean Power Plan rule 14


### and strongly urges you to withdraw it. Not only 15


### will it impoverish millions of ratepayers, it is 16


### unconstitutional. The President cannot simply 17


### impose his own policies because he lacks the 18



### skill to convinc e Congress of a desired course of 19


### action. The three branches of our government 20



### were constructed for a reason. 21


### The proposed rule is another example of 22

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### this administration's abuse of its power. In the 1



### Constitution, in Article II, Section 3, the 2



### President is charged with the responsibility to, 3


### quote, take care that the laws be faithfully 4


### executed, unquote. Article I, Section 1, of the 5


### Constitution says all legislative powers herein 6


### granted shall be vested in a congress of the 7


### United States, unquote. This new rule is 8


### excessively legislative. It is not an 9


### implementation of any law that has been passed by 10


### Congress. This rule violates the Separation of 11


### Powers Doctrine, which is the underlying purpose 12



### of the three branches of our Federal Government. 13



### Our Found ers recognized that a chief 14


### executive should not have the power to impose his 15


### own laws. In fact, they had experienced too much 16


### of that with King George. They specifically 17


### delegated the legislative power, which is the 18


### power to establish policy to Congress

. 19


### The President was given just 14 20


### responsibilities in the Constitution, and none of 21


### them includes domestic policy

- making. The 22

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### President may recommend legislation, but he may 1


### not impose his own laws without the consent of 2



### Congress. 3



### The Declaration of Ind ependence says 4



### government must rule by consent of the governed. 5


### Our Constitution established a process to be 6


### followed when crafting new laws, and making laws 7


### is a responsibility of the legislative branch, 8


### not the executive branch. When the process is 9



### fol lowed, the consent of the governed is honored, 10


### and liberty is secured. The executive branch may 11


### not impose its own rules just because it wants 12



### to. 13


### Our Founders set up the three branches in 14


### a way that prevented any single branch from 15


### becoming so powerful that it could threaten the 16


### liberty of citizens. That is why they separated 17


### the legislative function from the executive 18


### function. If these functions are merged, so that 19


### executive and legislative powers are wielded by 20


### one agency or one person, liberty will not be 21



### secured. It will be violated. 22

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### Your new rule violates American liberty 1


### in ominous and frightening ways. If a new agency 2


### can decree without the consent of Congress that 3


### the work and treasure of a private company, a 4


### public utility, or a cooperative enterprise can 5


### be wasted to achieve a clean air objective that 6


### has negligible impact on the quality of the air, 7



### then we have entered a new era of tyranny, 8


### because it will not be these companies that pay. 9


### It will be their ratepayers. 10


### I would very much li ke to see our nation 11


### spared your destructive rules, but if you insist 12


### on writing them, you will help us recruit. As 13


### you tighten the noose around the necks of the 14


### American people, we will organize. We will elect 15



### men and women to federal office who will sh rink 16



### your budgets, hollow out your agency, and return 17


### many of your agency's responsibilities to the 18



### states, where they belong as the 10th Amendment 19


### requires. 20


### I urge you to withdraw this destructive 21


### rule. It is not worth any miniscule benefits it 22

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### might ac hieve. Furthermore, the technology you 1


### are trying to force on the power industry, carbon 2


### capture and storage, is not a proven technology. 3



### This rule is foolish and wasteful. 4


### Listen to the American people and 5


### withdraw this rule. Thank you. 6



### MS. TONEY: T hank you. 7


### [Applause.] 8



### MS. TONEY: We will now hear from Mr. 9



### Robert Kappelmann and Ms. Barbara Anto nopl o s. I 10



### hope I have pronounced that correctly. Robert 11


### Kappelmann, Barbara Antonoplos, if you will make 12


### your way to the front at this time. 13



### MS. ANTONOPL OS: I am Barbara Antonoplos. 14


### May I switch my time slot with the person right 15


### after me? She has a commitment she needs to get 16


### to, an important commitment. Would that be okay? 17



### MS. TONEY: So we will have Mr. Robert 18



### Kappelmann and Courtney Hanson. 19



### If yo u will please make sure that you 20


### spell your name for the transcriber, and we will 21


### begin. I hope that I pronounced it correctly. 22

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### Is it "Kappelmann"? 1



### MR. KAPPELMANN: Correct. 2


### MS. TONEY: All right. You may begin. 3



### Thank you. 4



### MR. KAPPELMANN: Yeah. R obert 5



### Kappelmann, K

- a

- p

- p

- e

- l

- m

- a

- n

- n. 6


### My name is Robert Kappelmann. I am here 7


### representing the Florida Municipal Electric 8



### Association. 9


### FMEA represents 34 community

- oriented and 10



### - owned electric utilities serving 3 million 11



### Floridians. Our utilities are almost entirely 12


### dependent on fossil fuel generation, and it is 13


### critically important to our customers and our 14



### communities that we are able to continue to 15


### deliver reasonably priced and reliable electric 16



### power. 17


### In the 1980s, to meet growing electric 18



### demand, the FMEA members built over 2,400 19



### megawatts of coal

- fired generation. This was in 20


### response to the natural gas and fuel oil 21


### prohibitions in the Electric Power Industrial 22

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### Fuel Use Act of 1977. Many people are not aware 1


### of all the electric generation with coal came in 2



### the State of Florida. 3



### FMEA members invested billions of dollars 4



### on new coal

- fired generation, because we were 5


### given no other alternative for baseload 6


### generation. Many of our utilities carry 7



### considerable debt on these coal

- fired units. In 8



### ad dition, our utilities recently spent $2 billion 9


### for new air pollution controls to meet the 10


### interstate rule and the utility max rules. 11


### Forcing these utilities out of service 12


### prematurely, our big concern, will leave our 13


### ratepayers with hundreds of millions of dollars 14


### in stranded costs. These costs do not appear to 15



### be taken into consideration in EPA's economic 16


### analysis. 17


### The proposed ESPS, emissions reduction 18


### goals, depend on four building blocks that were 19


### developed considering national and regional 20


### assumpti ons and costs that may not translate to a 21


### state or its utilities. The 6 percent efficiency 22

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### improvement building block is unrealistic since 1


### Florida's relatively new coal

- fired generating 2



### fleet already employs nearly all of the 3



### cost

- effective heat rate impr ovements that are 4



### available. 5


### Florida's ESPS building block two depends 6


### primarily on frontloading and shifting 90 percent 7



### of our coal

- fired generation to gas

- fired 8


### generation. This shift will result in the 9


### premature closing of many of our coal

- fired 10



### gener ations. We find it ironic that the Federal 11



### Government, which directed that our utilities 12



### build coal

- fired generation, is now proposing a 13


### regulation that will assure their premature 14



### shutdown. 15


### EPA's building blocks three and four 16



### assume about 10 percent of Florida's generation 17


### will come from renewable energy by 2030, as well 18


### as a 10 percent reduction in electric demand. 19


### However, Florida's projected growth rate and lack 20



### of cost

- effective renewable energy resources make 21


### the 10 percent assumption unrealistic. 22

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### ESPS tends to punish early CO 2 

### emission 1


### reductions by including them in the calculation 2



### of the state emission

- limiting goals. EPA needs 3


### to allow the states to adjust emission reduction 4


### goals to reflect early actions made by the states 5


### prior to the effec tive baseline date of 2012. 6



### We have numerous additional concerns 7


### about EPA expanding the traditional boundaries 8


### for BSER beyond not only the electric

- generating 9


### unit but also going to generating sources and 10


### segments of the economy, not specifically 11



### regula ted by the Clean Air Act. 12


### Our preliminary analysis indicates EPA 13


### has overestimated greatly the monetized benefits 14



### for this rule and also underestimated the cost to 15


### the public. EPA also failed to fully incorporate 16


### the latest UN study in the IPCC AR findin gs, 17


### which show reduced equilibrium climate 18


### sensitivity and a great moderation in the 19


### prediction of severe weather from the AR4 report. 20


### People here are concerned about the science, and 21



### we feel that EPA needs to use that latest science 22

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### report, especially wh en the climate sensitivity 1


### has such a tremendous impact on the cost 2


### predictions for climate change. 3


### Thank you for this opportunity to address 4



### you. 5



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 6



### Ms. Hanson. 7



### MS. HANSON: Hi. My name is Courtney 8



### Hanson, C

- o

- u

- r

- t

- n

- e

- y, H

- a

- n

- s

- o

- n. I am 9


### Director of Organizing for Georgia Women's Action 10


### for New Directions, and for the past 4 years, I 11


### have had the honor of working with the Shell 12


### Bluff community in East Georgia. They live in 13


### the shadow of a nuclear power plant Vogtle, which 14



### has its two operating nuclear reactors and is 15


### hope to the construction site of the first new 16



### nuclear reactors in the U.S. in about three 17



### decades. 18


### In the fact of high poverty, cancer rates 19


### that are much higher than the national average
, 20


### and intimidation by the nuclear industry, this 21


### community has continuously raised their voices 22

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### for a real clean energy economy, for safer jobs, 1


### and for their own public health. 2


### So I'm here today to raise concerns about 3



### the role of nuclear power and the EPA's Clean 4



### Power Plan. 5



### T he draft rule declares that nuclear 6


### power is a core element of the nation's climate 7


### policy and pushes states to preserve, expand, and 8


### subsidize nuclear reactors. The EPA does this by 9


### pressuring states to ensure that reactors now 10


### being built are completed, no matter the cost, 11


### authorizing states to subsidize existing reactors 12


### to prevent uncompetitive ones from closing, and 13


### encouraging states to subsidize expensive 14


### retrofits to increase the power output of 15


### existing reactors. 16


### These provisions could undermine the 17



### growth of real renewable energy and prevent the 18



### closure of coal

- fired power plants. The rule 19



### encourages states to set up cap

- and

- trade 20



### programs and so

- called "clean energy standards," 21


### which could permit nuclear plants to sell 22

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### emissions credits and off sets to fossil fuel 1


### plans. This is not just dangerous for our 2


### environment; it's dangerous for our communities, 3


### especially those communities living downwind and 4



### downstream of nuclear power plants. 5



### The EPA must abandon subsidies and 6



### incentives for nuclear power in their plan and 7


### instead require that nuclear reactors that close 8


### are replaced with sustainable energy resources, 9


### including renewables efficiency and energy 10



### storage. 11


### Certainly, we know that carbon dioxide is 12



### a pollutant that we must address as a le ading 13


### cause of climate change, and there are no 14


### questions that we must drastically cut our carbon 15


### releases, and we thank you for this rule for 16



### that. But there are other releases that we need 17


### to take seriously and consider, and by basing 18



### clean energy stand ards on this implicit carbon 19


### formula, we are ignoring the past years of 20


### accumulated knowledge of the effects of radiation 21


### on public health. 22

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### The National Academy of Science maintains 1



### that there is no safe dose of radiation for 2



### humans, and we know that nucl ear power facilities 3


### release a variety of cancer

- causing 4


### radionuclides, including tritium, strontium 5



### nitrate, cesium

- 137, plutonium

- 239, and dozens 6



### more. 7



### Recently, the Nuclear Regulatory 8


### Commission has acknowledged that there have been 9



### releases of radioac tive tritium from existing 10


### nuclear power reactors exceeding safe drinking 11



### water limits at 37 sites. That is more than half 12


### of our nuclear power sites. 13



### The EPA allowable tritium standard is 14


### 20,000 picocuries per liter, but there have been 15



### 18 reactor sites that have had levels of over a 16


### million picocuries per liter. With a half

- life 17


### of more than 12 years, the tritium released by 18



### these reactors will remain hazardous to the 19


### environment and likely be added to by new 20



### reactors for the next century. 21



### Nuclear is the only one of many power 22

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### technologies that can produce electricity that is 1


### capable of a catastrophic event, that can kill 2



### tens or even hundreds of thousands of people, as 3


### we recently saw at Fukushima and other historical 4


### accidents. It presents a securit y threat of 5


### unprecedented proportions because of its 6


### vulnerability and creates a lethal byproduct of 7



### nuclear waste that will remain toxic for hundreds 8



### of thousands of years. 9


### So to call nuclear power as clean is an 10



### affront to science and an affront to comm on 11


### sense. Again, we urge the EPA to take the clean 12


### part of the Clean Power Plan very seriously and 13



### abandon nuclear power as part of the plan. 14



### Thank you. 15



### MS. TONEY: Thank you both. 16


### At this time, can we please have Barbara 17


### Antonoplos and Adrian n a Quinte ro. 18



### MS. ANTONOPLOS: I wonder how much energy 19


### they would save if they didn't make it as cold as 20


### wintertime in this building. 21


### [Laughter.] 22

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### MS. TONEY: All right. We will proceed 1


### with Ms. Antonoplos first, and then

-- did I 2



### pronounce your name correctly? Is it "Quintero"? 3


### MS. QUINTERO: Yes, you did. Thank you. 4



### MS. ANTONOPLOS: Yes. I am Barbara 5


### Antonoplos. That is B

- a

- r

- b

- a

- r

- a, 6



### A

- n

- t

- o

- n

- o

- p

- l

- o

- s. I am here today as a 7



### concerned citizen. 8


### I would like to say that I support the 9



### basic intent of the EPA's proposed Clean Power 10


### Plan. Runaway carbon emissions are destructive 11


### to life on this lovely planet and must be 12


### decisively curbed. However, as proposed, the 13


### rule includes unnecessary and counterproductive 14


### support for nuclear power for existing, aging
, 15



### uneconomical reactors, as well as for 16


### construction of new reactors, which is something 17



### I adamantly oppose. 18


### On the surface, this proposal is about 19


### mitigating climate change due to the effects of 20



### carbon

- emitting energy sources, but the bedrock 21



### issue is th e fact that the planet is being 22

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### seriously degraded by the effects of our 1


### country's energy choices, and that truth applies 2


### not only to coal but also to nuclear generation 3


### and to fracking. 4


### Whether we destroy our plant by climate 5


### change from excessive CO 2 

### or by destabilizing the 6


### Earth and polluting our water sources through 7


### fracking or by nuclear radiation that causes 8


### genetic mutations and cancers and leaves large 9



### swaths of Earth and ocean dangerously 10


### contaminated and uninhabitable, the technology 11


### for which p roduces enormous quantities of lethal 12


### waste that must be isolated from all living 13


### things for 240,000 years, which is itself an 14


### unfathomable environmental problem, the result is 15



### the same, irreversible destruction. And so it is 16



### unacceptable for the EPA to p ropose a rule 17


### limiting CO 2 

### emissions while giving support to 18


### other industries to irreparably harm the planet 19


### simply by different means. Such support has no 20


### place in a Clean Power Plan and must be entirely 21


### stripped out of the final rule. 22

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### Those who benefit financially from the 1


### nuclear industry, which is already being propped 2


### up by inflated rates and bloated profits awarded 3


### by industry

- captive regulators, and billions of 4



### dollars of taxpayer

- funded corporate welfare say 5



### that these carbon rules cannot be met w ithout 6



### ramped

- up nuclear power. That is going on in 7


### Georgia. 8


### Their spinmeisters are working around the 9


### clock to get that mythical message out in hopes 10


### that their cash cow will keep producing, so that 11


### they never have to reckon with the realities of a 12



### new era, but it is not the job of the EPA to prop 13


### this toxic industry up one more way for one more 14


### risky moment, especially when it is already being 15


### proven that energy efficiency and renewables are 16


### the most effective means by which to immediately 17



### address the c limate challenges we face. 18


### My mother was the daughter of a Georgia 19


### sharecropper, who ultimately owned his own farm 20


### and raised his own family on it. My father was 21


### the son of immigrants who, though they could 22

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### speak little English, developed very successful 1


### businesses. My parents lived through two world 2


### wars and the Great Depression, fully embracing 3


### the need for sacrifice and ingenuity that those 4


### situations presented. 5



### After World War II, my father became the 6


### first member of his family to earn a college 7



### deg ree. In fact, he earned two degrees from 8


### Emory University. Their legacy of marshalling 9


### resourcefulness and creativity to successfully 10


### meet formidable challenges has been passed on 11


### through my life to my children. So I don't have 12


### one ounce of patience wit h mega

- billion

- dollar 13


### corporations whining about not being able to meet 14


### the challenge of how to exist on this Earth 15


### without destroying it one way or another. 16



### For decades, these industries have seen 17


### the warnings that the need for a paradigm shift 18



### was immin ent, and they have obstinately refused 19



### to heed them. 20


### They have even had the financial 21


### resources and brain power to innovate to match 22

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### the times, and they have refused. So more perks 1


### and incentives and more time to get with the 2


### program is not what this inc reasingly dire 3


### situation that they have helped create calls for. 4


### When it comes to protecting the air we breathe, 5


### the soil we grow our food in, and the water we 6



### drink, both for ourselves and for future 7


### generations, it is way past time to take action. 8



### The EPA's own documents state the mission 9


### of the EPA is to protect human health and the 10


### environment, and EPA's purpose is to ensure that 11


### all Americans are protected from significant 12



### risks to human health and the environment where 13


### they live, learn, and work. T his is the job I am 14


### calling upon you to do with regard to this rule, 15


### and it cannot be accomplished by jumping out of 16


### the coal frying pan and into the nuclear fire. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 19


### [Applause.] 20


### MS. TONEY: Ms. Quintero. 21



### MS. QUINTERO: Good morning. My name is 22

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### Adrianna Quintero. 1


### MS. TONEY: Give me just a second. We 2


### want to make sure you get your full time. 3



### MS. QUINTERO: Sure. 4



### MS. TONEY: Yes. 5


### MS. QUINTERO: Right now? 6



### A

- d

- r

- i

- a

- n

- n

- a, Q

- u

- i

- n

- t

- e

- r

- o. 7


### Good morning, and thank you for the 8


### opportunity to provide my comments. As I said, 9


### my name is Adrianna Quintero, and I am a Senior 10


### Attorney at the Natural Resources Defense Council 11



### and the Founder of Voces Verdes, which is a 12



### national coalition of Latino leaders in business, 13



### civ ic, and civil rights, as well as medical, 14


### public health sectors. We also represent 15


### organizational partners who represent in turn 16



### over 5 million Latinos nationwide. 17



### Voces' leaders advocate for action to 18


### fight climate change and support clean energy, 19



### and a s the Director of Voces, I am here to 20



### express our strong support for the Clean Power 21



### Plan. 22

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### Our partners recently submitted a letter 1



### of support for the Clean Power Plan to EPA to 2


### finalize the strongest carbon pollution standard 3


### for existing power plants, t o address the main 4


### cause of climate change, and protect our health 5


### and the health of future generations from the 6


### devastating impacts of extreme weather. 7


### We have an obligation as citizens to 8


### protect our children and future generations from 9


### the impacts of c limate change by addressing its 10


### causes, including carbon pollution from power 11



### plants. In the U.S., these plants are 12


### responsible for nearly 40 percent of the carbon 13


### pollution that is driving climate change, and 14


### while we currently protect our children from 15


### public health threats, like arsenic, lead, 16


### mercury, soot, and other pollution, there are no 17


### existing national limits on carbon pollution. 18


### That is not safe, and it must change. 19



### Nationwide, 9 out of 10 Latinos want the 20


### government to take action against the dangers of 21


### climate change. Additionally, 8 out of 10 22

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### Latinos want the government to take action 1



### through the Clean Power Plan to curb carbon 2


### pollution. This support holds across all party 3


### lines, with 55 percent of Republicans, 88 percent 4



### of all Democrats , and 86 percent of Independents 5


### supporting presidential action. And those 6



### numbers date to December of 2013. 7



### In Florida, one of the states, most 8


### threatened by flooding and other impacts of 9


### climate change, almost 7 out of 10 Latinos 10



### support the Clean Powe r Plan, and 8 in 10 believe 11



### there should be limits now on how much carbon 12


### pollution a power plant can release. 13


### This plan would also avoid up to 6,600 14



### premature deaths each year, 150,000 asthma 15



### attacks for children, over 3,000 heart attacks, 16



### and almost a h alf

- a

- million missed days of work 17


### or school. For Latinos, these health impacts 18



### cannot be understated. 19


### Ninety percent of Latinos live in 20


### metropolitan areas, and one out of two lives in a 21


### state that doesn't meet air quality standards 22

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### regularly for ozone an d air pollutants. As we 1



### know, extreme weather and heat worsen those 2


### impacts, causing children and adults alike to 3



### suffer the consequences. 4


### For Hispanic children, this again cannot 5


### be understated; for Hispanic parents, as well. 6



### Even full

- time employed Hi spanics are less likely 7


### to be fully insured and have to resort to 8


### emergency rooms and incur increased costs for 9



### treatment. 10


### As a result, Hispanic children are almost 11


### twice as likely than non

- Hispanic white children 12


### to be admitted to the hospital for asthma . In 13


### addition to that, it is an impact on family 14


### income, since a large number of our agricultural 15


### workforce, as well as many in the construction 16


### space, work outdoors. This causes many Hispanics 17


### to have to miss days of work when air quality is 18



### poor or suf fer the consequences. 19



### For our leaders at Voces, the proposed 20


### Clean Power Plan is not only about protecting our 21


### community's health but also about unleashing a 22

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### tremendous amount of economic potential. In our 1


### leadership coalition, there are business leaders 2


### and owners who recognize this is an opportunity 3


### to preserve our environment, while also doing 4


### good for business. This plan is good for our 5


### environment, our health, and our economy, and 6


### will create incentives for entrepreneurs to enter 7



### the clean energy an d efficiency space. 8



### But I am also here as a mother of two 9



### children. We have the facts. We know from 10


### scientists, from governments, from activists, 11


### from doctors, and we have been making these 12


### connections for years. Sadly, our children 13



### continue to face th is without a solution in site. 14


### This plan from EPA is one of those steps towards 15



### a solution. 16


### The incessant political debate around 17


### proven climate science fueled by those who have 18


### put their financial interests before our 19



### well

- being must stop. 20


### Is my time u p? My time is up. Thank 21



### you. 22

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### MS. TONEY: Thank you very much. 1



### If you have comments that you were not 2


### able to share, please make sure that you give 3


### those to us at the registration table, so that 4


### they can be included. Thank you. 5


### MR. HUTSON: I just hav e a quick 6


### question. What is the organization that you 7



### represent? 8



### MS. QUINTERO: Voces, V

- o

- c

- e

- s, Verdes, 9



### V

- e

- r

- d

- e

- s. 10



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 11



### We will now hear from Alexis Chase and 12



### Jennifer Rennicks. 13


### As they are coming up, just another quick 14



### reminder to everyone, please make sure that your 15


### cell phones are turned to silent or vibrate for 16


### these hearings. Also, if you would, please try 17



### our best

-- I know we have a lot of energy, but 18


### if we will try our best to hold our applause to 19


### the very end, it helps t o preserve the time for 20


### the speakers as well as to give clear 21


### transcription for our transcriber. 22

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### We will now hear from Ms. Chase. 1



### REV. CHASE: Hi. My name is the Reverend 2



### Alexis Chase, A

- l

- e

- x

- i

- s, C

- h

- a

- s

- e, and I am 3


### the Vicar of Holy Comforter Episcop al Church, 4


### here in the City of Atlanta. I am here to speak 5


### strongly in favor of the proposed Clean Power 6



### Plan standards. 7


### As an ordained person, but more 8


### importantly as a Christian, I know that the Earth 9


### is not ours to own or destroy, nor did we create 10



### it in the first place. God was and is part of 11


### creating the world around us and placed us here 12


### to care for and tend this great earth, and when 13



### we don't take care of the planet, when we blow up 14


### its mountains to get at the coal underneath, when 15



### we waste energy not only in our production 16


### process but in how we use energy, when we 17


### knowingly and unnecessarily spew carbon, one of 18


### the key drivers of climate change in the air, 19


### then we are sinning. We are sinning against God, 20


### and we are sinning against the creation th at God 21



### put here. 22

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### As a mother and as someone that takes 1


### seriously the call God had put on my heart and on 2


### the heart of all people of faith to care for the 3



### least of us and the smallest of us when we 4


### knowingly and unnecessarily spew carbon into the 5



### air, whic h causes more asthma attacks, affects 6


### air quality, we are sinning against God and the 7


### very people that have been put into our care. 8


### As Christians and as adults, it is high 9


### time we start acting like it and set standards 10


### for the carbon pollution that comes from our 11


### power plants. Setting sensible carbon pollution 12


### standards for our power plants is the right thing 13



### to do. It will contribute to vital resilient 14


### community. 15



### The national Climate Action Plan includes 16


### provisions to enhance the infrastructure of our 17


### communities, so they can deal with the impacts of 18


### climate change that they are already feeling. It 19


### also promotes new energy efficiency measures to 20


### conserve and save consumers money, while also 21


### investing in clean energy sources, expanding 22

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### economic opportun ity in clean energy, and 1


### providing jobs. 2


### Carbon pollution exacerbates climate 3


### change, contributing to more frequent and more 4



### violent extreme weather that cost communities, 5


### the Federal Government, and our economy billions. 6



### We have the technology at hand t o produce energy 7


### while also producing less carbon pollution, and 8


### the technology will create a new generation of 9


### clean energy jobs. These new clean energy jobs 10


### will replace the thousands of jobs that have 11


### already been lost in the dirty energy sector. 12



### As s omeone that is actually from Kentucky 13


### and who is related to generations of coal miners, 14


### my family saw firsthand that coal companies could 15


### get 75 percent more coal with 75 percent less 16


### workers. So the myth that jobs in the dirty 17


### energy sector will be lost because of these 18


### standards is just that, a myth. Those jobs 19


### haven't been there for generations. 20


### There is money to be had in the hills and 21



### hollers of Appalachia, but it is not in blowing 22

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### up the mountains. It is in leaving them alone 1


### and creating a pathwa y for retraining the 2


### existing working force and putting new investment 3


### in the new clean energy economy. 4


### Since 1970, every dollar invested in 5


### compliance with Clean Air Act standards has 6


### yielded $4 to $8 in economic benefits. Those are 7


### real and lasting eco nomic benefits that we can 8


### take advantage of now and into the future. 9


### I support the new carbon reduction 10


### standards proposed by the EPA as a Christian, as 11


### a mother, and as a human on this planet that 12



### would like to breathe clean air and drink clean 13



### water an d leave that also for my son. 14


### I will continue to pray for the EPA, as I 15



### do every day, and I hope the rest of you do the 16



### same. 17



### Thanks. 18



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 19



### Ms. Rennicks? 20



### MS. RENNICKS: Thank you. 21


### MS. TONEY: Give me just one moment, so 22

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### we can make s ure you have your full time. 1



### Okay. 2


### MS. RENNICKS: Good morning. My name is 3



### Jennifer Rennicks, J

- e

- n

- n

- i

- f

- e

- r, and my last 4



### name is Rennicks, R

- e

- n

- n

- i

- c

- k

- s. 5



### I offer my strong support today to the 6


### Environment Protection Agency for your proposed 7



### rule to regulate and reduce carbon dioxide and 8


### other invisible pollutants because I am the 9


### mother of an asthmatic child, and I speak for her 10



### today. 11


### As the single largest source of carbon 12


### emissions in the United States, coal plants dump 13



### more than 2 billion tons o f carbon pollution into 14


### the air every year, and limiting these emissions 15


### as well as sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, and 16


### particulate matter, it will drastically reduce 17


### the levels of air pollutants that aggravate 18


### respiratory diseases, and this is critically 19


### important to me, because my child, Emma, is one 20



### of the 7 million children in America that 21


### currently struggles with asthma. This is a 22

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- 3376161



### chronic respiratory disease that can leave her 1


### struggling for breath and wheezing with seemingly 2



### little notice. 3



### For 13 ye ars, my efforts to limit her 4


### exposure to triggers that caused asthma attacks 5


### have been restricted to things that were under my 6


### control only, pets, dust mites, allergens, mold, 7


### tobacco smoke, things like that. But by speaking 8


### in support of these proposed c arbon rules today, 9


### I can finally take an action against one of the 10


### most significant triggers for asthma attacks, and 11


### that is outdoor air pollution caused by fossil 12



### fuel

- powered plants. 13


### When these rules are finally implemented, 14


### I will applaud the economic benefits that result 15


### when harmful levels of carbon pollution are 16


### reduced by deploying clean energy, but I will 17


### celebrate the possibility that my child will be 18



### one of 150,000 Americans that will not suffer an 19



### asthma attack each year. 20



### I hope you, and I hope others listening 21


### today, understand that visits to urgent care to 22

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### treat a moderate to severe asthma attack, coupled 1


### with the necessary medications and supplies, have 2



### real financial costs. But those financial 3


### impacts have been easier sometimes to handle th an 4



### the emotional ones. 5


### I want you to imagine holding a young 6


### child barely 3 years old in your arm as she gasps 7


### for breath, and now I want you to picture her 8


### surprise and fear as strangers try to cover her 9



### face with a mask. She doesn't understand that 10



### the mask is there to help her breathe. She sees 11


### it as another obstacle, and it's scary. 12



### In an attempt to soften the harsh and 13



### clinical nature of asthma treatments, nurses 14



### would connect my very young daughter to 15


### nebulizers, and one in particular had a fish

- f ace 16



### mask. And you can see here today that her rescue 17



### inhaler still has a duck

- face mask on it. 18


### These silicon parts are designed to make 19


### the whole process less daunting, but a silly face 20


### does not erase the fact that dealing with asthma 21


### is scary for chil dren, it is worrisome for 22

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### parents, and it is expensive for our communities. 1


### Asthma's costs impact families far beyond 2


### medical bills, as parents have to miss work 3



### sometimes to care for their children. All 4


### employers don't provide paid sick leave, so 5



### somet imes parents are bringing home smaller 6


### paychecks to provide that care. 7


### To those who loudly proclaim that 8


### reducing carbon pollution may be too costly, I 9


### would point out the direct and indirect cost from 10


### cooking with asthma alone costs approximately $18 11



### bil lion a year, and asthma is not the only 12


### disease that is impacted. Other heart and lung 13


### diseases are also worsened by pollution from coal 14



### power. 15


### A recent Harvard Medical School study 16


### found that coal pollution costs the United States 17



### taxpayers between 175

- and $523 billion every 18


### year in health and environmental impacts, so coal 19


### is actually three times at least more expensive 20


### than it would appear on our power bills. 21



### Thankfully, my daughter's asthma symptoms 22

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### appear to be lessening over time; however, that 1



### ma y not always be the case. Scientists and 2


### public health experts warn that carbon

- fueled 3


### climate may aggravate her symptoms because more 4


### heat and more smog may continue to make it 5



### difficult for her to breathe. I don't think this 6



### is a future scenario that a ny of us should be 7


### willing to accept, nor when we know there are 8


### solutions that are working right now. 9


### I applaud EPA for proposing a flexible 10


### rule that can reduce these invisible yet harmful 11


### pollutants, and I urge you to finalize the Clean 12



### Power Plan as s oon as possible, because these 13


### benefits cannot come soon enough for our children 14


### and our communities and, in particular, my 15



### daughter. 16


### And I thank you for your consideration. 17


### MS. TONEY: Thank you, ladies. 18


### We will now hear from Marilyn Brown and 19



### Dennis C reech. Marilyn Brown and Dennis Creech. 20



### [Pause.] 21


### MS. TONEY: Ms. Brown, we will begin with 22

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### you. 1


### MS. BROWN: Good morning. My name is 2


### Marilyn Brown. I am a Professor of Public Policy 3


### at the Georgia Institute of Technology and also 4



### the Director of the Climate and Energy Policy 5



### Lab. Let me spell my name. M

- a

- r

- i

- l

- y

- n, 6



### B

- r

- o

- w

- n. 7



### The Clean Power Plan not only encourages 8



### states and utilities to use less carbon

- intensive 9


### energy supplies, that is, the inside

- the

- fence 10


### approach, but it also encourages sta tes and 11


### utilities to assist consumers in using less 12


### electricity by using it more efficiently. We 13



### call that the "outside

- the

- fence approach." The 14


### role of this proposed rule, the role this 15


### proposed rule may play in creating stronger 16



### markets for that energy efficiency side of the 17


### solution in the South, is the focus of my 18



### comments today. 19


### It's particularly important in the South 20


### because we have been the beneficiary of low 21


### electricity rates for decades, and this has been, 22

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### of course, the reason that our economi c growth 1


### has been so strong. But it also is a reason that 2


### we have become so energy inefficient. The low 3


### electricity prices have made energy efficiency 4



### and conservation less valuable. As a result, we 5


### live in a region with a bountiful opportunity to 6



### reduc e its energy demand if the proper incentives 7



### are used, such as in the Clean Power Plan. 8



### Because the South uses energy so 9


### wastefully, if you just take a look at home 10


### energy bills

-- I had one of my students do some 11



### calculations

-- the average home energy b ill, 12


### that is, electricity and natural gas, in the 13


### South is $170 a month, and for the nation, 14


### including electricity and natural gas and fuel 15


### oil, the principal home energy fuels, it is $175 16


### a month. So our bills are almost as high as 17


### regions with more seve re climate, despite the 18


### fact that we have such cheap electricity because 19



### we are so inefficient. 20



### In the year 2013, the South was home to 21


### 35 percent of the nation's population, but it 22

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### consumed 43 percent of the nation's electricity, 1


### a very high intensity, i ndeed. The region has a 2



### great deal of demand

- reduction potential, as I 3


### mentioned, and indeed, the documentation backing 4


### up the Clean Power Plan cites my work in 5


### justifying the push for energy efficiency, 6



### because I've done a lot of work to show how cost 7



### ef fective it is. 8



### But in fact, I believe that the 9



### documentation and the Clean Power Plan does not 10


### sufficiently reflect the opportunity for 11


### efficiency. More is actually available than is 12


### in the proposed goals for states across the 13


### country and particularly in the South. 14


### The high levels of energy intensity 15



### reflect a lot of factors in the South. We have 16


### poor energy efficiency policies. Twenty U.S. 17


### states have energy efficiency resource standards, 18


### and only two of these 20 are in the South. 19



### Sixteen states ha ve decoupled utility profits 20


### from sales, but only two of those are located in 21



### the South. 22

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### Utilities in the South have spent on 1


### average $7 per capita on electricity efficiency 2


### programs. The average nationwide is $19, and the 3


### average in the State of Georgia is $3. So there 4


### is certainly room for improvement. 5


### When I talk about energy efficiency, I 6


### don't just mean cold showers and warm beer. We 7


### are talking about using energy more wisely, with 8


### high

- efficiency florescent bulbs, for instance, 9


### solid state lighti ng, smart thermostats that idle 10


### equipment when it is not needed. The list goes 11



### on. 12


### In 2010, I coauthored a study with a team 13


### of researchers from Duke and Georgia Tech, and we 14


### looked at the potential for energy efficiency in 15



### the South. We demonstrated, f or instance, in the 16


### State of Georgia alone, an energy efficiency 17


### potential that could save Georgians $3.8 billion 18


### annually, if implemented

-- 19



### MS. TONEY: Ms. Brown? 20



### MS. BROWN: Is that it? 21


### MS. TONEY: That is time, but thank you. 22

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### MS. BROWN: Okay. 1



### MS. TONEY: If you would, please, for us, 2


### if you would take those comments and make sure 3



### that we have them, and we can make them a part of 4



### the record. 5



### MS. BROWN: I will. I will submit them 6


### electronically online. 7



### MS. TONEY: Thank you so much. 8



### MS. BROWN: Thank you. 9



### MS. TONEY: Mr. Creech. 10


### MR. CREECH: Good morning. I am Dennis 11



### Creech. I am the Executive Director of Southface 12


### Energy Institute, an Atlanta

- based non

- profit 13


### organization that has provided education, 14



### research, and technical assistance on cl ean 15



### energy development across the Southeast for 35 16



### years. 17


### My perspective on the proposed in EPA 18


### standard is simple: Georgia can meet this 19


### standard and, in doing so, further stimulate the 20


### growth of our clean energy economy. While we as 21



### a state have made significant progress in 22

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### promoting energy efficiency and developing new 1



### renewable energy, we can do much, much more. 2


### I come today to share a practitioner's 3


### perspective. For more than three decades, 4


### Southface has been on the ground, training 5



### builders, work ing with code officials, assisting 6


### local governments and utilities, and supporting 7


### clean energy companies. 8


### I would like to give a couple of examples 9



### of our market

- based approach to advancing clean 10


### energy that show that clean energy works in 11


### Georgia and th at we have a strong clean energy 12


### industry that can scale quickly to meet the 13



### proposed EPA standard. 14


### Fifteen years ago, Southface and the 15



### Greater Atlanta Home builders Association 16


### established EarthCraft, the first green building 17


### certification program desig ned for the Southeast. 18



### To date, builders have certified more than 30,000 19



### EarthCraft homes, homes that cut energy and water 20


### costs and put money in the pockets of consumers. 21


### Two years ago, Southface partnered with 22

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### the City of Atlanta and the commercial rea l 1


### estate industry to launch the Atlanta Better 2


### Buildings Challenge. As a result, over 70 3


### million square feet of commercial office space in 4



### Atlanta has pledged to save energy and water use, 5



### at least 20 percent by 2020. By the way, the 6



### Omni, the site of to day's hearings, as well as 7


### the Sam Nunn federal building, which houses the 8


### offices of Region 4 EPA, have joined the Atlanta 9


### Better Buildings Challenge. 10


### Our local utilities, too, have expanded 11


### their energy efficiency programs. Georgia Power 12



### saves 300,000 megawatt

- hours a year with its 13



### current demand

- side management programs. 14


### Likewise, Georgia's 41 electric membership 15


### cooperatives offer a range of energy efficiency 16


### programs to their customers. 17


### However, neither private sector nor 18


### utility energy efficiency initiatives in Georgia 19


### have come close to exhausting the potential for 20



### cost

- effective savings. Each day, we see 21


### enormous potential for cutting energy waste in 22

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### our economy. 1


### We also see untapped potential for 2


### renewable energy production. While we have 3



### fin ally moved beyond the myth that solar energy 4


### doesn't work in Georgia and developed a strong 5



### solar market, we can do much, much more. 6


### Southface maintains an online solar energy map 7



### that tracks solar installations across the state. 8



### We know of more than 920 residential and 9


### commercial projects with the collective capacity 10



### of 110 megawatts. 11


### Our utilities have also shown leadership 12


### in this arena. Georgia Power's Advanced Solar 13


### Initiative will bring online more than 700 14


### additional megawatts of solar energy by the end 15


### of 2016. GreenPower EMC, which provides clean 16


### energy to the state's electric membership 17


### cooperatives, recently announced a 20

- megawatt 18



### solar deal. 19


### As with energy efficiency, we have 20


### untapped potential and a solar industry in 21


### Georgia ready to crea te jobs and strengthen local 22

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### economies. In fact , clean energy is already 1


### having a positive impact on Georgia's economy. 2


### In 2013, Southface partnered with 3


### government and industry to conduct the Georgia 4



### Clean Energy Industry Census. The data shows 5



### more th an 600 clean energy firms in the state. 6



### About two

- thirds of the firms provided employment 7


### and sales data. These companies employ over 8



### 9,700 full

- time personnel and generate at least 9


### $2.6 billion annually in revenues. This sector 10


### is poised to grow more. 11


### In closing, I want to acknowledge that 12


### there will be some who say we can't cut carbon 13


### pollution. They will claim such regulation is 14


### burdensome, and it will drive up the cost of 15


### electricity, destabilize the grid, and cost 16


### American jobs. I don't believe i t. I have seen 17


### firsthand the potential for energy efficiency and 18


### renewable energy to enhance our quality of life 19



### and grow our economy. 20


### We can achieve the carbon pollution 21


### standard in Georgia, and it is the smart thing to 22

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### do. 1



### Thank you. 2



### MS. TONEY: Tha nk you. 3


### At this time, we are going to hear from 4


### David Hayes and Arthur G ibert. 5


### Before we break for lunch, we are going 6


### to complete the list before lunch. If you will 7


### please be patient with us just a few more 8


### moments, we will hear from David Hayes, Art hur 9



### G ibert, and then immediately following those two 10


### speakers, we will hear from Teri Blanton and 11



### Glenn Carroll. So if Teri Blanton and Glenn 12


### Carroll can just simply make their way to this 13


### front row, so they will be prepared to take the 14


### podium after these two speakers. Then we will 15



### break for lunch. 16


### David Hayes. 17


### MR. HAYES: My name is David Hayes, 18



### H

- a

- y

- e

- s, and I am a 21

- year

- old resident of 19


### Tennessee. I will send in more specific comments 20



### based on an EPA's request later, but for now, I 21



### don't want to ta lk about specifics or 22

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### environmental protection. I want to talk about 1


### human protection. 2


### When asthma rates are devastating the 3



### lives of children, cancer rates on the rise, when 4


### an estimated 500 people a year die in Tennessee 5


### from coal pollution, we need to act. We 6


### shouldn't find excuses why we can't act. We need 7


### to find ways to act and make progress. 8


### We shouldn't claim to oppose this new 9


### rule to protect the working class and lower 10


### income homes when they are the ones facing the 11


### consequences of dirty air a nd an unstable climate 12


### from carbon pollution. 13


### I support this new policy not because it 14


### will clean our air and save our climate overnight 15


### but because I am morally obligated and owe it to 16


### the people suffering now and the future 17


### generations, and I need to st and up for them and 18


### stand up with them and work in their best 19



### interests. 20


### First, I applaud the EPA for proposing 21


### this new rule, and I urge them to not only keep 22

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### going from here but to help save people suffering 1


### now and also look after people who are comin g 2



### after us. 3



### Thank you. 4



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 5



### Arthur G ibert. Did I pronounce that 6



### correctly? 7



### M R

. G IBERT: Yes, ma'am. Thank you. 8


### My name is Arthur Gibert. That is 9



### A

- r

- t

- h

- u

- r, G

- i

- b

- e

- r

- t. I am a native of 10


### Atlanta. I am a landscape architect and planner. 11



### I'm NABCEP entry level

- certified as a solar 12


### designer. 13


### I would like to first say, generally, I 14


### strongly support any and all EPA actions to 15


### protect the climate that we all rely on. We live 16



### in it. We breathe it. We have to drink clean 17



### water. If we don't, we die young. We die bad 18


### deaths. Time is short anyway, so we do not need 19


### to squander any opportunities to clean the 20


### environment of air pollution, water pollution, 21


### contaminated soils, carbon pollution. We need to 22

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### address climate change, and I strongly support 1


### the EPA's Clean Energy Plan and guidelines. 2


### I strongly support any action that the 3


### EPA will take to limit any further delay of 4


### closing inefficient, dirty power plants, 5


### particularly coal

- burning power plants. 6



### I am alarmed by an apparent c omplacency 7


### for the nation to start switching to natural gas, 8


### which though cleaner still generates heat, carbon 9


### pollution, still relies on extraction of 10


### resources. In that game as well, there will be 11



### winners and losers. 12


### Economically speaking, we have a fa r 13


### better option in front of us. There is enough 14


### solar power falling on the State of Georgia to 15


### power the entire country. 16


### Countries like Germany, which have 17


### subsidized solar development, have proven that 18



### solar power can work. We don't even really need 19



### to do that. What we need to do is level the 20


### playing field economically by withdrawing 21


### subsidization from fossil fuel industry. If that 22

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### needs to happen gradually, then fine, as long as 1


### we'll do it, because dumping waste products into 2



### the air is, in business parlance, an 3



### externalization of cost. 4


### I am subsidizing with my health and my 5


### lungs and my lifestyle, my outdoor activities, my 6


### nieces and nephews' health. I am subsidizing 7


### Georgia Power and the Southern Company, allowing 8


### them to dump their waste product s into the 9


### atmosphere. They need to do every possible thing 10


### they can to clean their waste out of the air. 11


### I will tell you, I have been a 12



### development consultant for a quarter of a 13



### century. I have worked for developers of all 14


### sizes and scales and types. Here is the deal. 15


### If you clarify the rules and you help them comply 16


### with the rules, they will follow the rules. We 17


### need to make the rules, and they will stop 18


### dumping their junk into our air. Otherwise, they 19



### will not. 20


### You may hear from lobbyists, and I am not 21


### pointing fingers or naming names, but you may 22

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### hear from many different lobbyists who will tell 1


### you that they are not ready; it could take 2


### another 20 years to get their mess cleaned up. 3


### Well, that is the same thing we heard from the 4


### car industry abo ut seat belts and airbags, and 5


### guess what? When they are required to do it, 6


### they can do it. In fact, the utilities have 7


### their plans already drawn up. They can do it and 8


### they will do it as soon as we make them do it. 9


### Until then, they won't. 10



### That is all I have to say right now, but 11


### I will fill out online comments. Thank you so 12


### much for the opportunity to speak. 13



### MS. TONEY: Thank you both, gentlemen. 14



### Can we have Teri Blenton and Glenn 15


### Carroll. These will be our final two speakers 16


### for the morning sessi on. Teri Blenton and Glenn 17



### Carroll. 18



### MS. CUNNINGHAM: I am not Teri Blenton. 19


### We can't find her, and the folks at your front 20


### desk told me to go ahead and jump in. 21


### MS. TONEY: Okay. So please give us your 22

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### name. 1


### MS. CUNNINGHAM: My name is Sarah Lynn 2



### Cun ningham. S

- a

- r

- a

- h, L

- y

- n

- n, Cunningham like 3


### it sounds. I am a lifelong Kentuckian. I am an 4


### environmental engineer registered in the State of 5


### Kentucky. My home and my office are powered with 6


### solar power, photovoltaics. 7


### I have practiced engineering as both a 8


### regulator, an environmental regulator, albeit at 9



### the state and local level, and I have been a 10



### member of the regulated body who had to help my 11


### employer figure out how to comply with EPA 12


### regulations. So I see this with two different 13



### hats. Well, actu ally more than that, but those 14


### are the two I am going to focus on. 15


### I am currently a retired civil servant, 16


### but I earn my living by helping my clients to 17


### improve their energy efficiency and to tap 18



### renewable energy and as an educator. I represent 19



### the Louis ville Climate Action Network, the 20


### Kentucky Conservation Committee, the Climate 21


### Reality Project, all of whom recognize that the 22

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### U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the 1



### U.S. EPA needs to regulate greenhouse gases per 2



### the Clean Air Act, and that is wh at we are hoping 3


### you will do. 4


### I gave up 2 days of earning wages because 5


### I believe that global climate change is the moral 6


### crisis that faces us this century. It is the 7


### crisis of the century, and because Kentuckians, 8



### of all people, need your help. 9



### I am no t going to bother talking about 10


### the scientific consensus because I know you know 11


### that about climate change. 12


### Coal has long dominated you know politics 13


### for well over a century, despite the fact that 14


### the industry really doesn't care about Kentucky 15



### or about K entuckians. It has had a very long 16


### history of laying off miners and trashing the 17


### economy of small coal field economies as fast as 18


### it could, replace those people with mechanization 19


### or shortcut techniques like mountaintop removal. 20


### The cost of electricity i n the last 10 21


### years in Kentucky residential, commercial, and 22

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### industrial sector has averaged an increase of 6 1


### percent per year. It is not like stable prices 2


### are the status quo and you are going to change 3


### them. For that price, we could be doing so much 4



### bet ter. 5


### The State of Kentucky's legislature has 6


### long protected or at least historically protected 7


### the tobacco industry. We compromised our health, 8


### our laws, our economy to protect that industry, 9


### all the while they're shipping our jobs to places 10


### with cheaper labor. We have a history of being 11


### allegiant to industries that don't care about us, 12


### and we're doing it now with coal. 13


### They are trying to maintain control. I 14


### understand the industry is really not happy that 15


### they can't keep using our state as their free 16


### dump, but it's too bad. We need to do better 17


### than this. However, our legislature won't do it. 18



### Less than 1 percent of Kentucky's workers 19


### work for the coal industry, and yet it still 20


### dominates our politics. Our 21


### Democratically

- controlled Statehouse is cha ired 22

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### by somebody in the coal business. Our 1


### Republican

- controlled State Senate, the 2


### environmental committees of both of these groups, 3


### energy committees, he is in the coal industry, as 4


### well. So it's pretty incestuous. 5


### No financial advisor would say to yo u, 6


### put 93 percent of your investments in one basket, 7


### and yet that's what our state does for electrical 8


### production, 93 percent in coal. That is dumb. 9


### We so provide economic subsidies and so 10


### allow this industry to externalize its waste and 11


### its pollution in to the rest of the economy and to 12


### tearing up our roads, reducing our property tax 13


### base, which impacts the schools, to say nothing 14


### of our health, and so we really just desperately 15


### need the U.S. EPA to step in where we can't seem 16


### to do it ourselves and prote ct us. So we really 17


### want you to comply with the Supreme Court's 18


### rulings. 19


### I left my Show and Tell in my backpack, 20


### but at one point in Louisville, visibility was so 21



### bad due to coal smoke, you had to use your 22

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### headlights in the middle of the day. The averag e 1



### Louisvillian in 1933 was calculated to inhale 2



### 1

- 1/2 cups of soot per year. My own grandmother 3



### and great

- grandmother of COPD from coal smoke. 4


### They never smoked tobacco in their life. We have 5


### a long history of being forced to be subservient 6



### to this indu stry. We really need your help. 7



### Cap

- and

- trade was a Republican idea. It 8


### worked really well on acid rain precursors. It 9



### would work even better on greenhouse gases. 10



### I want you to know I really care about 11


### miners. I just spent 4 days in the coal fields 12



### m yself. I really care about those people. I 13


### understand they are freaked out about their jobs, 14


### but you know what, replacing inefficient furnaces 15



### and air

- conditioners, insulating businesses, 16


### homes, and schools requires people with good 17


### handy skills. 18



### Does t hat mean it's time? 19



### MS. TONEY: That's time. 20



### MS. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. I wondered 21


### when you were going to give me a warning. 22

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### MS. TONEY: Thank you. We appreciate it. 1



### MS. CUNNINGHAM: Those coal miners could 2



### be trained to do that work. 3



### MS. TONEY: T hank you. 4



### MS. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. 5



### MS. TONEY: Thank you for your comments. 6



### Ms. Carroll? 7


### MS. CARROLL: My name is Glenn Carroll. 8



### I represent Nuclear Watch South. We have a 9


### thousand members in Georgia and 17,000 members 10



### around the world. 11



### This rule that the EPA is proposing is 12


### historic and important. It is hard to imagine 13



### the amount of pressure that you are under, 14


### especially from moneyed special interests. 15



### We have an ask from Nuclear Watch South 16


### that you take the nuclear support provisions out 17



### of the rule. It is counterproductive, and it 18


### eclipses truly clean energy, wind and solar. We 19



### can do better than build radioactive waste 20


### factories to meet our goals. 21


### Georgia and Georgia Power provide a good 22

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### illustration of wrong consequences from the draft 1


### rule as it stands. Georgia Power is building two 2


### new nuclear reactors. They are charging us a tax 3


### on our power bills ahead of time to defray some 4


### of the costs. They have received $6.5 billion in 5



### free loans from our Treasury, from the U.S. 6



### Treasury, exce pt Georgia Power isn't even using 7


### almost half of its available power. It is 8


### experiencing a 10

- year trend of flat sales, which 9


### has turned into the past 3 years, a trend in 10


### falling electricity sales, but Georgia Power is 11


### achieving its carbon coals by buildi ng two new 12


### radioactive waste factories at Plant Vogtle with 13


### almost $18 billion of mostly public money. This 14


### is not what we need to accomplish. 15



### God forbid

-- well, now let's get EPA. 16



### These radioactive waste factories, these nuclear 17


### power plants in our st ate, dump hot water into 18


### our rivers and steam into the atmosphere, which 19


### is a greenhouse gas at high enough elevation, so 20


### you must consider certain emissions even from 21



### nuclear that aren't carbon. 22

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### God forbid that these nuclear reactors 1



### would ever accident ally dump all of its radiation 2


### into the entire northern hemisphere. That would 3



### not be what we're after here. 4


### Fracking. Oh, my gosh. You know, that's 5


### not an area I am conversant in. I hope you are 6


### going to hear from fracking activists, but in the 7



### upsur ge of fracking recently, we have burned less 8


### carbon emissions from burning, but we have 9



### increased our emissions because of the methane 10


### that is getting out as we attempt to retrieve 11


### this cheap natural gas, so I hope somebody is 12


### speaking about that. 13



### I will enter "Carbon

- Free and 14



### Nuclear

- Free Future" into the record. I know the 15


### author did meet with the EPA, and I will send you 16


### guys a copy of it. I have got this darling 17



### little brochure about it. 18


### I want to sing you a verse from a song 19



### that a friend of mine w rote, and her husband has 20



### COPD. And I don't know if it's from coal. He 21



### smoked tobacco, but she's got to put a pacemaker 22

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### in her husband tomorrow, and she couldn't be 1


### here. But she has this wonderful song, and this 2



### is the chorus. 3


### [Singing.] "We are gathe red here to honor 4


### the atmosphere. That precious life

- giving 5


### source. In the coming days, we must change our 6


### ways. Now we begin to chart our course. 7


### Thank you for bringing us together." 8


### Thank you for bringing us together. 9



### MS. TONEY: And thank you very much. 10


### With that being our final speaker for 11


### this morning's session, I think that is a very 12


### fitting place for us to give a round of applause 13



### to all of our speakers for today. 14


### [Applause.] 15


### MS. TONEY: Again, thank you all for 16


### coming and spending your time

. 17


### We are now going to take our lunch break. 18


### We will resume at 1 p.m. It has been a pleasure 19


### being your Chairperson for the Morning Session, 20


### and I want to thank you again to my co

- chairs 21


### here. You all please go and enjoy your lunch 22

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### break, and we will re sume at 1 p.m. 1



### Thank you. 2



### [Luncheon recess.] 3



### AFTERNOON SESSION 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Ladies and gentlemen, we 5


### would like to get started. If folks could find 6


### their way to a seat, we will get this moving. 7



### [Pause.] 8



### MR. THOMPSON: For the record, this is 9



### the pu blic hearing on the proposed carbon 10


### pollution plan and proposed carbon pollution 11


### standards for modified and reconstructed power 12


### plants being held in Atlanta, Georgia, on July 13



### 29th, 2014. 14


### Good afternoon. My name is Fred 15


### Thompson. I am the Associate Divis ion Director 16



### of the Sectors Policies and Programs Division in 17


### EPA's Office of Air Quality Planning and 18


### Standards and one of the Chairs of today's Public 19


### Hearing. Thank you all for coming today. 20


### Joining me on the panel this afternoon 21


### are, to my right, Nic k Hutson, one of the 22

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### engineers leading the rule; and to my left, Julia 1


### Miller, an energy efficiency expert. 2


### We are here today to listen to your 3



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 4


### pollution from power plants. EPA announced both 5



### of these prop osed rules on June the 2nd, 2014. 6



### Power plants are the largest source of 7


### carbon pollution in the U.S., accounting for 8



### roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse gas 9



### emissions. 10


### The first rule is EPA's Proposed Clean 11


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 12


### proposal consists of two main part : 13



### s tate

- specific goals to lower carbon pollution 14


### from the power plants and guidelines to help 15


### states develop their plans for meeting the goals. 16


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 17



### determin ing how to meet the ir goals. S tates will 18


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 19


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 20


### their goals by 2030. 21


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 22

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### address Carbon Dioxide Emissions from Modified 1



### and Reconstructed Power P lants. This rule would 2



### set emission s limits for two groups of power 3



### plants: those that make physical or operational 4


### changes that increase the plant's maximum 5


### achievable hourly rate of emissions and those 6



### that replace components to such an extent that 7



### the new components exceed 50 percent of the 8



### ca pital cost of an entirely new, comparable 9


### facility. 10



### I f you would like more details on either 11



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 12


### available near the registration desk out front. 13


### Today's hearing is one of four Public 14


### Hearings across the country this week on the se 15



### two proposed rules. We have had tremendous 16



### interest in each of the hearings, and I would 17


### like to thank you for taking the time out of your 18


### day today to join us and share your comments. 19



### We have a lot of people signed up to 20



### speak today, and we want to hear from all of 21


### them. So before we get started, I would like to 22

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### go through a few housekeeping and ground rules 1


### that will hopefully help make today's hearings 2



### run smoothly. 3


### First, please be sure y ou have checked in 4


### at the registration desk, even if you are not 5


### planning to speak today, and if you signed up to 6


### speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 7


### you are here, please step out to the registration 8



### desk and let the EPA staff know there that you 9



### have arrived. 10


### Second, if you are a speaker, you were 11


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 12



### or Room B. This is Room A. So this would be a 13


### good time to ask the question, are you in the 14


### right room, and if not, that's okay. This would 15



### be the appropriate time to make the switch. 16


### So here is how today's hearing will work. 17


### I will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 18


### is called, please come to the table at the front 19



### of the room, which is located here. When I call 20



### on you to speak, please st ate your name and spell 21


### it for the court reporter. Your comments will be 22

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### transcribed and included in the record of 1



### comments on the proposed rule. 2


### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 3


### comments. We have a light right here. Yes, we 4


### have a light that t urns green to yellow, and that 5


### means you have 1 minute remaining. When it turns 6


### red, that's the signal to wrap up your testimony. 7


### The light will flash red and beep when you have 8


### spoken for 5 minutes, and it's time to stop at 9


### that point. 10


### When you are fin ished speaking, please 11


### remain at the table until the person next to you 12


### has completed his or her testimony. 13


### We are here to listen to you today. 14


### However, a panel member may ask you questions to 15


### clarify your comments. I will then call up the 16


### next pair of speakers and so on. 17


### If you have brought a written copy of 18


### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 19


### the registration desk before you leave today. 20



### Because of the large number of people who 21


### have signed up to speak today and to be fair to 22

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### everyone, w e are going to have to strictly 1



### enforce the 5

- minute limit. 2


### If you have additional comments you would 3


### like to make, you can submit them in writing. 4


### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 5


### consideration to comments we receive in writing 6



### as we do to comments we receive at public 7


### hearings like this one. So if you have more that 8


### you would like to say, please submit it. Your 9



### comments will

-- I assure you, they will be 10



### reviewed. 11


### There is still plenty of time to get 12



### written comments in, and there are co mment cards 13


### available at the registration desk. Comments 14


### must be received by October 16th, 2014. I will 15


### repeat that. Comments must be received by 16



### October 16th, 2014. 17


### We will put any written comments today in 18


### the official docket for the proposed rule. 19


### Instructions for submitting written comments in 20


### other ways are available at the materials table 21


### near the registration desk, again, that is 22

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### located out front. 1


### We are scheduled to go until 8 p.m. 2


### tonight, and we will take a dinner break. Right 3



### now, the din ner break is scheduled for five 4


### o'clock. In addition, we may take occasional 5



### short breaks throughout the afternoon, as needed. 6


### If you have any questions during the day, 7


### please see the staff at the registration desk, 8


### and someone will try to help you. 9



### Fin ally, I want to ask each of you to 10



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 11


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 12



### views in the audience, and we want to hear from 13


### all of you. So we can do that and to be fair, we 14


### ask that everyone listen quietly. Even applause 15


### can slow things down, and we want to hear from 16


### everyone who has signed up to speak. 17


### Thank you again for taking the time today 18



### to share your comments on the EPA's proposed 19



### rules. 20


### With that being said, let's get started. 21



### At this time, I wo uld like to invite Commissioner 22

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### Cavanaugh and Lane E. Boldman to the podium for 1


### testimony. 2



### [Pause.] 3



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, ladies. 4


### Starting with Commissioner Cavanaugh, could you 5



### pronounce and spell your name for the court 6


### reporter and then begi n your testimony. 7



### MS. CAVANAUGH: Twinkle Andress 8



### Cavanaugh. T

- w

- i

- n

- k

- l

- e, A

- n

- d

- r

- e

- s

- s. 9



### Cavanaugh, C

- a

- v

- a

- n

- a

- u

- g

- h. 10


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 11


### today on behalf of all Alabamians. My name is 12


### Twinkle Andress Cavanaugh, and I am Presiden t of 13



### the Alabama Public Service Commission. 14



### I am h ere today to ask you to please stop 15


### strangling our State with more federal mandates 16


### that cripple our economy and seek to forever 17


### change our way of life. 18



### As President of the Alabama Public 19



### Service Commissi on, I promised that I would 20


### fight. I would fight to keep our power rates 21



### affordable and reliable. At a time when families 22

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### and businesses can least afford to pay, federal 1


### mandates from Washington have obstructed our 2


### ability to make the best decisions for our state, 3


### and they have driven up the cost that consumers 4


### pay for electricity. 5


### Alabama families are financially 6


### strapped. We have an anemic economy, a rising 7


### cost of living, and a complete uncertainty, both 8



### here and around the world, but, you know, afte r 9


### traveling all around Alabama, it is clear that 10



### what mamas and daddies want is the least 11


### expensive option to power their homes. 12


### Small businesses and industry also share 13



### that same concern. They depend on affordable and 14


### reliable power to stay in business and to grow 15


### jobs. 16



### I am a mom, and as a mom, I can assure 17


### you that we want a clean environment. However, 18


### we have clearly reached the point of diminishing 19


### return. The cost of compliance and the burdens 20


### placed on working families are enormous compared 21



### to w hat is now very debatable benefits. 22

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### With $2.7 billion already spent over the 1


### last decade by the largest utility company in 2


### Alabama and another billion dollars in projects 3


### already underway to comply with current federal 4



### mandates, I am compelled oppose any new mandates 5


### coming out of Washington. 6


### Currently, the average residential 7


### customer in Alabama pays 144 extra dollars every 8


### year, more than they did just a decade ago, to 9


### comply with the federal mandates that are already 10



### on the books. The expenses that ar e already 11


### being passed on to the customer each month have 12


### reduced emissions by close to 80 percent. 13


### I can't stand by idly now and let you 14


### continue to place a bigger burden on the backs of 15


### Alabamians. By your own admission, by your 16



### administration's own admission, electricity 17


### prices will increase, and jobs will be lost. 18


### That's not what we need in this country, and it's 19



### not what we need in Alabama. 20


### Our Federal Government must stop picking 21


### winners when our hardworking citizens are the 22

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### losers. 1


### Electricity , it should not be a luxury 2


### item. Our seniors, single moms, and struggling 3



### families should not have to choose between what 4


### they need for their family, their basic needs, 5


### and keeping the lights on. They shouldn't have 6



### to choose whether or not they can kee p their air 7


### conditioner running during hot, sweltering 8



### summers in Alabama. 9


### One of the primary drivers for bringing 10


### new jobs to our state has been the ability to 11


### offer both reliable electricity and electricity 12


### as a competitive rate. At a time when job gro wth 13


### is crucial to the recovery of not just our 14


### nation's economy but Alabama's economy. Why 15


### would you handcuff us with more burdensome 16


### regulations? 17


### With all the unrest we are experiencing 18



### around the world, this is the absolute worst time 19



### to further restra in our energy supply and 20


### continue the drain on our economy. I ask you to 21



### please let us use our most abundant resource: 22

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### coal. I refuse to dismiss the use of our own 1



### God

- given natural resource and the ability to 2


### produce inexpensive energy by using it. 3



### Pl ease let us use our least expensive 4


### option. Don't intrude on our ability to make 5



### decisions that affect our future and Alabama. 6


### Our future as a free nation depends on it. It 7


### depends on the ability to power our country and 8


### to grow our economy, to grow job s. 9


### I ask you to consider a moratorium on 10



### more mandates and let our economy recover. 11


### Thank you for letting me speak on behalf 12



### of the great State of Alabama. 13


### [Applause.] 14


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Commissioner 15


### Cavanaugh. Thank you for your testimony. If you 16



### will remain seated. 17



### Ms. Boldman. 18


### MS. BOLDMAN: Yes. My name is Lane 19



### Boldman, L

- a

- n

- e, B

- o

- l

- d

- m

- a

- n, and I represent 20


### the Kentucky Environmental Foundation, an 21


### organization dedicated to securing solutions for 22

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### environmental problems by safeguarding h uman 1



### health. 2


### We appreciate the EPA's Clean Power Plan 3


### and attempts to address climate change. We want 4


### to suggest some areas of strengthening the Clean 5


### Power Plan, and we will submit longer comments in 6


### writing, but I will give you the highlights. 7



### For hea lth impacts, we would like to see 8



### the EPA demonstrate how each of the proposed 9



### methods of carbon reduction in the Clean Power 10


### Plan protects human health. Kentucky is a state 11



### that has elevated asthma rates and cardiovascular 12



### disease, both of which are link ed to carbon 13


### pollution. The Clean Power Plan does not address 14


### the environmental impacts to human health and 15


### externalities of the whole fuel cycle as a basis 16



### for decision

- making. 17



### The American Public Health Association 18



### and the World Health Association have identified 19


### climate change as one of the biggest threats to 20


### public health in this era. Kentuckians face a 21


### wide range of risks associated with climate 22

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### change, and our state already has suffered 1


### significant damage from carbon pollution for many 2



### decades. 3



### Ke ntucky has some of the highest rates of 4


### asthma in the nation. According to the CDC, in 5


### 2008, adult lifetime asthma prevalence was 14.7 6


### percent, high above the U.S. average, same with 7


### asthma rates in children, 9.7 percent. 8


### In addition, air pollution can a ffect 9



### cardiovascular disease, where Kentuckians have 10


### significantly higher rates. According to the 11



### Cabinet for Health and Human Services in 12


### Kentucky, Kentucky ranked eighth out of 50 states 13



### for cardiovascular death rates. 14


### The EPA's proposed carbon polluti on 15


### standards could protect our citizens more by 16


### reducing the smog that triggers asthma attacks 17



### and other health threats, but efforts by our 18



### state regulators and state enforcement efforts 19


### still leave Kentuckians near the very bottom of 20


### every indicator compa red to what is actually 21


### possible or being achieved in other states. 22

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### That's why we need the EPA to step in. 1


### State regulators are either unable or 2


### unwilling to strongly enforce local standards 3


### that protect human health from coal's impacts. 4



### We authored a h ealth impact assessment of coal 5


### and clean energy options in Kentucky, which we 6


### will send to you. 7


### We want to address environmental justice. 8



### The Clean Power Plan does not do enough to 9


### address concentrations of localized pollution. 10



### We would like to see str onger incentives to 11



### protect low

- income communities who can be 12


### disproportionately affected by carbon pollution. 13


### We'd like to see stronger reduction 14



### goals. Even though the Clean Power Plan focuses 15


### on reducing carbon pollution from power plants by 16



### 30 percen t by 2030, the EPA estimated we could 17



### make the reductions faster. 18


### Kentucky's Assistant Secretary for 19



### Climate P olicy, John Lyons, recently stated that 20


### the average carbon emissions of Kentucky's fleet 21



### of coal

- fired power plants should meet the new 22

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### standard by 2020. That is because 11 coal 1


### boilers are already scheduled to be shut down 2


### because of EPA's air quality regulations. So, in 3



### other words, Kentucky can meet the Clean Power 4


### Plan standards simply by continuing their present 5



### course, with little incentive s for additional 6



### innovation. 7


### We understand their plea for flexibility, 8


### but flexibility should not override strong 9


### incentives for states to step up their game. 10


### That's the whole point of this. 11



### While the EPA standards call for 30 12


### percent reduction in the n ation's carbon 13


### emissions, Kentucky's specific goal is only 18.3 14



### percent. We are already at the bottom, and our 15



### regulators don't want to do more. The 16


### flexibility is a disincentive for real action. 17


### Kentucky's progress to date allows it to 18



### remain at the ve ry bottom of every indicator, 19


### from efficiency to clean power to protection of 20



### human health. The Clean Power Plan continues the 21



### subsidization of obsolete coal

- fired and nuclear 22

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### power, making it more difficult to move our state 1



### forward and to cleaner resour ces. We have to 2



### move forward. 3


### We need stronger incentives for energy 4


### efficiency and renewables. The Clean Power Plan 5



### incentivizes conversion of coal towards natural 6


### gas and nuclear over conversion of wind, solar, 7


### and more importantly, for our state, ene rgy 8


### efficiency. It only lists energy efficiency as 9


### an option, not a mandate. Efficiency is a 10


### particular issue for Kentucky. We are far behind 11


### many other states when it comes to diversifying 12


### our energy portfolio. We have no renewable 13


### energy portfolio st andards or energy efficiency 14



### resource standards. 15



### Our dependency on coal has made us 16


### economically vulnerable. Coal mining in Kentucky 17


### has collapsed with the loss of 40 percent of the 18



### state's coal

- mining jobs. Now they are less than 19


### 1 percent statewide em ployment. 20



### We need incentives to move to our next 21



### future. You need to help us get there. You need 22

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### to put out standards to put the pressure on our 1


### state legislators and regulators. 2



### Thank you. 3


### [Applause.] 4



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Boldman. 5



### Ladies, before you leave, are there any 6


### questions? 7


### [No audible response.] 8


### MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you for 9


### your testimony. Thank you very much. 10



### At this time, I would like to invite 11


### Vickie Terry and Amy Adams to the podium for 12


### testimony. Vickie Terry and Amy Adams. 13



### Okay, we'll proceed. Good afternoon. 14



### MS. TERRY: I have a little voice. I am 15


### Vickie Terry. V

- i

- c

- k

- i

- e. Terry, T

- e

- r

- r

- y. I 16



### am from the Campbell

- Claiborne county line in 17


### Tennessee where they are doing mountaintop 18



### removals. 19



### I know thi s is about the air quality and 20



### stuff, so I'd like to start when I was in Ohio, 21


### young. My perception happened with a coal plant. 22

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### It was across the river, across the bridge. The 1


### gate over there was yellow. They have a big 2


### clock full of lights. You know, country girl, 3


### cornfields. So that was my perception of heaven. 4



### In that same area, there was Armco Steel, 5


### and every time you'd go near Middletown, Ohio, 6


### you could smell it. I had asthma, and I'd lose 7



### my breath. I couldn't breathe and get near 8



### Middletow n, Ohio, near that coal plant and steel 9



### mill. 10


### Then my husband retired, and I moved to 11


### the mountains. Coal was still in my life. Now 12


### they are blowing up the mountains, and I don't 13



### care what they say. Tennessee changes the 14


### terminology, a word, a sentence , just to change 15


### it for their benefit. Office of Surface Mining 16


### is liars and crooks. I can tell you why I know 17


### this, but I only have 5 minutes. 18


### I am like desperate at this moment. They 19


### are doing mining all around me, the dynamite. 20



### There is health iss ues. I don't think you're 21



### aware that we have 50 more percent cancer rates, 22

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### 60 percent more respiratory diseases. They are 1


### having a lot of issues with gallbladders. 2


### And now let me tell you how this is 3


### affecting me. I can hear the heavy machinery 4



### behind my house now, where instead of hearing the 5


### birds. I live on a little ridge. I'm very 6


### lucky. I have the luxury of living on it. I 7


### have my own little ridge in the mountains, and 8


### it's beautiful. I love it like my family, and 9



### here I can hear this. Instea d of the dew drops 10


### on the leaves and the birds in the morning, I am 11


### hearing the heavy equipment, and it is very 12


### disturbing the last few weeks. 13


### My granddaughter is losing her 14


### gallbladder next month. She is 13. It just quit 15


### working. Her friend is 13, and in May, she lost 16


### her gallbladder. It just quit working. It was 17


### full of slurry stuff. The only thing they have 18


### in common besides their age and being friends is 19


### they live in the same community and have been 20


### playing in the water below the tipples where th ey 21


### clean the coal, before they put it on the trains. 22

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### I could go on and on and on, but I am 1


### here to tell you this is affecting communities. 2


### I have seen whole communities disappear. I have 3


### seen people lose their homes, and I am scared to 4



### death about my gr andchildren's health. One of my 5


### grandbabies, she's got rheumatoid arthritis and 6


### then went blind in one eye. Children's Hospital 7


### won't see her because she hasn't been diagnosed. 8


### They don't even know what's wrong with her. How 9


### do I know this pollution ha sn't done this to my 10


### baby? We are scared we're losing her. She 11



### cannot even walk. She is 17 now. She has been 12


### going through this over 2 years. She can't even 13



### hardly walk. 14



### Her name is Diamond, and she has lobbied 15


### for clean water protection. She has do ne so much 16


### to protect the mountains, and she can't even 17


### walk. She was going to go to college, and she 18


### got upset because she missed one day at school 19


### and made a B. And now she has given up, said, 20


### "I've missed so much school because I was going 21



### to the doct or. I can't go to college now." This 22

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### is affecting my home. This is affecting my 1



### children. 2


### And this is not about just jobs and 3


### stuff. There can be jobs made with solar and 4


### wind, making the batteries storing it. We need 5



### sun. What about that cloudy day ? That is where 6


### the batteries come in to store the energy. The 7


### only reason we are not going to solar and wind is 8


### because people are trying to figure out how to 9


### make a profit out of our electric. They have 10


### turned electric into a luxury that is making it 11


### almost impossible. 12



### I mean, the bills are ridiculous. It's 13


### killing us, whole communities, and it's just 14


### outrageous. We don't know if they have

-- we 15


### can't prove the carbon dioxide is causing the 16



### climate effect. 17



### Well, James Hansen

-- talk to a NASA 18



### sci entist. If he isn't reliable, who is? Who 19


### hired this top scientist in NASA? He seems 20


### pretty reliable to me, and he is against it. 21


### I don't agree with your blocks. I want 22

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### you to be more aggressive and faster. 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Ms. Terry, thank you 2



### sincere ly. Thank you for your testimony. 3



### MS. TERRY: Thank you. 4



### MR. THOMPSON: Before you go, are there 5


### any questions for Ms. Terry? 6


### [No audible response.] 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you for 8


### coming today. 9


### MS. TERRY: I'm sorry for going long. 10



### Thank you. 11


### [Applause.] 12


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. At this time, I 13



### would like to invite Maeve Howett and Kate 14



### McGregor Mosley to please come forward. 15



### DR. HOWETT: Hi. 16



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 17



### DR. HOWETT: Good afternoon. 18



### MR. THOMPSON: Hi. 19


### Starting with Ms. Ho wett. 20



### DR. HOWETT: I am Dr. Maeve Howett, 21



### M

- a

- e

- v

- e, H

- o

- w

- e

- t

- t. 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Please begin. 1


### DR. HOWETT: Thank you. I appreciate 2


### this opportunity to talk about climate change. I 3


### am a Clinical Associate Professor at Emory 4


### University in the Nursing S chool. I am a 5


### pediatric nurse practitioner, and I go all around 6


### the country talking about children's health and 7


### how children are a more vulnerable population and 8



### what we need to do to make their lives better. 9


### I have just come from a week talking 10



### about ch ildren's nutrition, and I teach this. I 11


### am convinced that the disparities that we see in 12


### health are directly related to the disparities in 13


### a child's environment, and there is nothing that 14


### working on children's nutrition, children's 15


### physical activity, chil dren's increased education 16



### -- none of those things matter as long as the 17



### environment is unsafe for those kids. So there 18


### is no greater responsibility, I feel, for the EPA 19


### today than to stop dirty coal, whatever you can 20



### do. 21



### I applaud these efforts, but I d o feel as 22

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### though they are not strong enough. There should 1


### be no more investment in coal. It needs to stay 2


### in the ground. I have every confidence that the 3


### economy is creative and they will find a way to 4


### make jobs in clean and renewable sources of 5



### energy. That the science is unequivocal, it is 6


### actually killing kids

-- respiratory disease, 7


### cardiovascular disease, neurotoxicity, cancers. 8


### We know there are epidemic numbers of brain 9


### tumors in children that we can't explain. We 10


### know that's epidemic numbers o f autism, 11



### behavioral disorders that have not been seen I 12


### populations before, and I think it's directly 13


### related to the amount of pollution that kids are 14



### faced with. 15


### It may be related to what we do with the 16


### coal when it comes out of the ground, but there' s 17


### also health effects for the coal burning, and we 18


### need to address those things in children's lives 19


### and fix them for them permanently. 20


### So when we talk about protecting the 21


### environment and making it better, we are not 22

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### talking about protecting an environmen t for a 1


### polar bear. We are talking about a protecting an 2


### environment for your children and their 3


### grandchildren. Everything we do today has an 4


### effect for seven generations, and this is your 5


### most important work. 6



### Thanks. 7



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Dr. Howe tt. 8


### Thank you for your testimony. 9



### Ms. Mosley? 10



### REV. McGREGOR MOSLEY: Yes. Hi. I am 11



### Reverend Kate McGregor Mosley, K

- a

- t

- e, 12



### M

- c

- G

- r

- e

- g

- o

- r, M

- o

- s

- l

- e

- y. 13


### Thank you for hearing my testimony today. 14


### I live here in Atlanta; in Decatur, Georgia. I 15



### am a mom of three children, and certainly I care 16


### about clean air issues and environmental policy 17


### for the sake of my children, but I come to you 18


### today to present a different angle because I'm a 19


### Presbyterian minister, and this is the place that 20



### I stand as I spea k to you. 21


### I have been a Presbyterian minister here 22

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### in Georgia for close to 10 years now, and really 1


### specifically for the last 6 years, I have been 2


### working on environmental issues from a faith 3


### perspective, because faith and ecology are 4


### closely linked. The y are tied together. 5


### Right now, I am the interim Executive 6


### Director of Georgia Interfaith Power & Light, not 7


### Georgia Power, but GIPL, Georgia Interfaith Power 8


### & Light. We have been working for 10 years as a 9



### faith

- based environmental organization across t he 10


### state helping faith communities embrace 11


### environmental stewardship and sustainability as a 12



### witness to faith. 13


### We have been active with congregations, 14



### mosques, synagogues, prayer houses, all of them 15


### to encourage the practice of environmental 16


### stewardship. 17


### We focus largely on energy efficiency. 18



### That has been our most successful program to 19



### date, and that's what I want to speak to you 20


### about today, because it does connect directly to 21


### 111(d) and the carbon pollution standards. 22

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### I speak in favor of these carbon 1


### pollution standards. Let me be clear about that. 2


### I am convinced this is sound policy that, quite 3



### frankly, should have been enacted long ago, and I 4


### say that because I know houses of worship who 5


### have been at this work of reducing their carbon 6


### footprint fo r the past several years, not because 7


### it is all the corporate rage, but because it is 8


### the right thing to do. They see it as a witness 9



### to their faith. 10


### They have been eliminating pollution and 11



### waste within their facilities and related 12



### ministries for some t ime now. They have taken on 13


### the important work of incorporating energy 14


### efficiencies into every aspect of their 15


### congregational life. 16


### GIPL has helped specifically 150 17


### congregations embrace energy efficiencies that 18


### have them saving on average 20 percent, bu t as 19


### much as 46 percent on their utility bills, and 20


### that is an average of $2,000 per congregation per 21



### year. 22

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### More importantly, these congregations 1


### have collectively also saved close to 8 million 2


### pounds of carbon pollution from being released 3



### into the atmos phere. These are churches and 4


### synagogues. They have done this, doing this, 5


### because they know it's the right thing to do and 6


### it's the smart thing to do. 7


### So do you all know what 8 million pounds 8


### of carbon pollution looks like? That is like 9


### removing the e quivalent

-- well, that is the 10


### amount of the equivalent to planting 100,000 11


### trees every year. It also means that 4 million 12


### pounds of coal did not have to be burned because 13


### of these energy efficiencies and to meet these 14


### energy needs. So if our houses of w orship can do 15


### it, it's time the power plants step up and do it 16



### too. 17


### Furthermore, when congregations save 18


### money on their utility bills, they put that money 19


### directly back into the communities they love to 20


### serve, they are called to serve. It is a win

- win 21



### fo r us all. Those congregations have also hired 22

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### local companies to help them with the 1



### energy

- efficient projects in their houses of 2


### worship, so their participation in the local 3


### economy has been very tangible. 4


### Our organization has helped congregations 5



### pay fo r these energy efficiencies to close to 6


### $745,000 in grant monies that we have shared with 7


### these houses of worship, and that is just in the 8



### last 6 years through our grant program called 9


### "Power Wise." It's working. 10



### We estimate that close to 4 million 11



### kilo watt

- hours have been saved through this one 12


### program in Georgia alone, so you can see I 13


### represent congregations that are passionate and 14


### know the benefits of energy efficiency and see 15


### its value, particularly within this Clean Power 16



### Plan. 17



### Therefore, we are seeking to hold the 18


### power plants accountable for the carbon pollution 19


### they produce as well as support this rule, so 20


### that this pollution is reduced by 30 percent in 21



### the years to come. 22

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### Again, congregations across Georgia are 1


### doing this every day, and it is not required of 2


### them. No one passed a law saying churches should 3



### do this, but we know that the new Clean Power 4


### Plan is to increase energy efficiencies, and it 5


### will move us beyond this localized practice of 6


### household to household incorporating it or 7



### church es to churches. These new standards will 8


### normalize the practice of energy efficiency, and 9


### we all benefit from this. Our economy will grow. 10



### We will contribute to vital resilient 11



### communities. 12


### As a person of deep faith, I believe 13


### strongly in the shared re sponsibility to care for 14



### what God has created as good and for us to all 15


### practice stewardship. We are in this together. 16


### We need these carbon pollution standards, and 17


### there are houses of worship who support this too. 18


### Thank you for your time. 19



### MR. THOMPSON : Thank you, Reverend 20



### Mosley. 21


### Ladies, before you step away, I do want 22

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### to ask, Are there any questions? 1


### [No audible response.] 2


### MR. THOMPSON: Are both of you planning 3



### to submit written comments? 4



### REV. McGREGOR

- MOSLEY: Yes. 5



### MR. THOMPSON: Good. I woul d like to 6



### hear more about Power Wise. 7



### REV. McGREGOR

- MOSLEY: Great. 8



### MR. THOMPSON: Well, thank you both. 9



### DR. HOWETT: Thank you. 10



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 11


### testimony. 12



### At this time, I would like to invite Mike 13


### Migliaccio and Gretchen Dahlkemper

-- and forgive 14


### me if I am mispronouncing the names

-- up front 15


### for testimony. 16



### [Pause.] 17



### MR. THOMPSON: Gretchen Dahlkemper? 18



### MS. DAHLKEMPER: That's me. 19


### MR. THOMPSON: Oh, okay. Take your time. 20



### Good afternoon to the both of you, and 21


### thank you for comin g today. Please help me 22

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### pronounce your last name, sir. 1


### MR. MIGLIACCIO: It's "Migliaccio." 2


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. So if you will 3


### pronounce it again and spell it for the court 4



### reporter, that would be excellent. 5


### MR. MIGLIACCIO: Very good. Michael 6



### M igliaccio, spelled M

- i

- c

- h

- a

- e

- l, 7



### M

- i

- g

- l

- i

- a

- c

- c

- i

- o. 8


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. You may begin. 9



### MR. MIGLIACCIO: Good afternoon. My name 10


### is Michael Migliaccio, and I am the Regional 11


### Business Development Manager for Johnson Controls 12


### here in Georgia. Johnson Controls is a global 13


### diversified technology and industrial leader with 14


### 170,000 employees serving customers in more than 15



### 150 countries. Our services include solutions to 16


### optimize energy efficiency in buildings. Our 17


### commitment to sustainability dates back to our 18



### roots in 1885 with the invention of the first 19



### electric thermostat. 20


### Johnson Controls is a part of an industry 21


### that provides energy efficiency products and 22

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### services to building owners across multiple 1


### markets. Within our industry, we are referred to 2


### as "energy services companies," or the acronym 3



### ESCO. 4


### One of the compliance options under Rule 5


### 111(d) is to support end

- use energy efficiency by 6


### utilizing as a means to reduce energy 7


### consumption, thus, reducing greenhouse gas 8


### emissions, while creating loc al benefits in the 9


### form of additional jobs. We believe that 10


### efficiency offers an opportunity to create over 11


### 300,000 new jobs, save consumers $100 billion per 12


### year in energy bills, and eliminate 600 million 13



### tons of CO 2 

### emissions each year. 14



### In addition to the utility

- based energy 15


### efficiency programs, we urge that the energy 16


### efficiency building block should promote and 17


### account for energy efficiency initiatives taken 18


### on by building owners themselves. 19



### Data from the Bloomberg New Energy 20



### Finance article entitle d "Sustainable Energy in 21


### America Fact Book" shows that energy efficiency 22

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### through ESCO activities is substantial. In fact, 1



### there are about as much investment in end

- use 2


### efficiency through ESCO activities as there are 3


### through utility programs. 4



### The energy e fficiency initiative that my 5


### industry provides is known as guaranteed energy 6


### savings performance contracts. It is a 7


### procurement model available to federal, state, 8


### local government agencies, universities, 9


### elementary schools, and industry. Under this 10



### procu rement model, building owners receive 11


### infrastructure replacement associated with 12



### energy

- consuming equipment, such as lighting, 13


### heating, and cooling. The replacement of the 14


### older technology systems with new efficient 15


### systems creates the reduction in utilit y 16


### consumption, which translates into less need for 17


### generation, hence lowering GHG emissions. 18


### Furthermore, what makes energy savings 19


### performance contracting an ideal method of 20



### end

- use efficiency is that the reductions are 21



### measured, verified, and documented . These steps 22

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### are necessary in every performance contract as 1


### the ESCO must guarantee to the billing owner that 2


### the energy consumption will be achieved each year 3



### of the contract. 4



### In this context, Johnson Controls 5


### recommends six policy principles for energ y 6


### efficiency as a compliance tool. Number one, 7



### end

- use energy efficiency should be available as 8


### a means of compliance. 9


### Two, the EPA should provide guidance to 10


### states on presumptive, approvable energy 11


### efficiency provisions in compliance plans. The 12



### EPA sh ould be explicit and not silent. 13


### Number three, existing state utility 14


### programs should be recognized and scaled. 15


### Four, mechanisms for creating private 16



### sector

- delivered energy efficiency activities 17


### should be available, including crediting of sale 18


### of high

- e fficiency appliances, facility energy 19


### efficiency projects, and energy performance 20


### contracting. 21


### Number five, energy efficiency can and 22

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### should be explicitly credit in both rate and 1



### mass

- based compliance systems. Either system can 2


### work with the appropriate policy design. 3


### Finally, number six, the EPA should be 4


### explicit about criteria used to approve energy 5


### efficiency elements of the state plans. Criteria 6


### should have environmental rigor, quantifiable, 7



### enforceable and sustainable, administrative ease, 8



### clear i nvestment goals and management 9


### requirements, and adaptability with periodic 10


### review of state plans, with prospective 11


### adjustments, as needed. 12



### Johnson Controls supports the EPA's 13


### consideration of energy efficiency as a 14


### compliance tool, and we appreciate the 15


### opportunity to make a statement today. 16



### Thank you. 17



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 18


### testimony. 19



### Ms. Dahlkemper. 20



### MS. DAHLKEMPER: Good mornin g. My name 21


### is Gretchen Dahlkemp er, G

- r

- e

- t

- c

- h

- e

- n, 22

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### D

- a

- h

- l

- k

- e

- m

- p

- e

- r. And usually, it's my name 1



### they have a hard time pronouncing, so . . . 2


### [Laughter.] 3


### MS. DAHLKEMPER: Good morning. My name 4


### is Gretchen Dahlkemper, and I am the National 5


### Field Manager for Moms Clean Air Force. We are a 6



### force of over 340,000 members across the United 7



### States who banded together over 3 years to 8


### support your mercury and air toxic standards. 9



### Because a lot of our members cannot be 10


### here today, since they are busy, busy moms, I 11


### brought signatures from our members all 12


### throughout the region and handprints from the 13



### tiniest of those who can't sign. 14


### Today, I want to thank Administrator 15


### McCarthy and her agency for once again taking an 16


### important step and protecting America's children, 17


### including my own three, from the devastating 18


### effects of toxic air pollution. 19


### Climate change is the greate st public 20



### health threat we face as a civilization. It is 21



### also the greatest challenge that I face as a 22

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### mother. 1


### Children and other vulnerable populations 2


### worldwide are already suffering from the health 3


### effects of a changing climate. Without 4


### aggressive act ion to limit the air pollution that 5


### causes climate change, we will see increased 6


### suffering among children on a global scale. 7


### To turn the tide of the coming public 8


### health catastrophe, we need prompt action to 9


### sharply limit carbon dioxide emissions, one of 10


### the major drivers of climate change. Power 11



### plants today currently account for 40 percent of 12



### our nation's carbon dioxide output. 13


### In the weeks since the plan was proposed, 14



### thousands and thousands of moms have told EPA 15


### that we want aggressive limits on the carbon 16


### dioxide emissions that are fueling climate 17


### change. Many moms, however, like me, think that 18


### this Clean Power Plan does not go far enough in 19


### protecting our children. 20


### EPA's goal proposed is to reduce 21


### emissions by 30 percent, and quite frankly, it 22

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### doe s not go far enough. Our children need 1


### protection now, and they need serious protection. 2


### We want stricter limits and today ask the EPA to 3



### move forward and finalize the rule that reduced 4


### carbon dioxide emissions to 40 percent below 2005 5


### emissions by 2020. 6



### So why do I and other moms care about a 7



### 640

- page highly technical proposed rule on power 8


### plants? The answer is simple. Because our 9


### current path, it harms our kids. 10


### I sympathize with the families who are 11


### worried about their jobs. I grew up actually in 12


### Coal Country in western Pennsylvania. I 13


### understand the fear that comes with job 14


### uncertainty. However, I do not sympathize with 15


### an industry that has little to no regard for the 16


### health of my children. Just like the tobacco 17


### industry did decades ago, the f ossil fuel 18


### industry continues to lie to the American people 19


### by refusing to admit that their product is 20


### directly responsible for deaths across the globe. 21



### I am mom to three small children, two of 22

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### which suffer from chronic health conditions that 1



### are currentl y impacted by climate change. 2


### Fiona is a feisty 3

- year

- old who loves to 3


### play outside. She is actually really good at 4


### soccer. I'm not just saying that. But she 5



### suffers from asthma, and I am no stranger to 6


### heading to the Children's Hospital in 7


### Philadelph ia at midnight when she can't breathe. 8



### Declan, my 1

- year

- old, suffers from a 9



### rare form of mass cell disease. His condition is 10



### aggravated by extended allergy seasons and 11


### extreme heat. His tiny little body can't handle 12


### being outside in the summer hot days , and the 13


### allergy seasons inflame sores all across his body 14


### that he can barely function with. 15


### These are just a few of the stories of 16


### our children who are suffering from climate 17


### change and whose conditions will only get worse. 18


### If industry voices have thei r way and EPA's Clean 19



### Power Plan is weakened or scuttled, we can be 20



### sure that climate

- related health impacts will 21



### continue. 22

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### Heat

- related illnesses, such as heat 1


### stroke and heat exhaustion, already the leading 2



### cause of weather

- related deaths, will become e ven 3



### more common. 4


### The air pollution that triggers asthma, 5


### like my Fiona suffers from, will worsen. That is 6


### because climate change makes air pollution worse, 7


### especially in urban area. One in 10 U.S. 8


### children are already suffering from asthma, and 9



### where I am from in Philadelphia, that number is 10



### almost one in four. 11


### Changes in rainfall will increase the 12



### risk for serious floods in North America and the 13


### related injuries and infectious diseases that 14


### accompany major flooding. Droughts will become 15



### more common. Yields of food crops, including 16


### corn, soybeans, and rice, are already raising our 17


### grocery and pantry prices, and food shortages 18


### will exacerbate starvation conditions, especially 19


### in those nations where child malnutrition already 20



### affects almost half of the w orld's children. 21


### As a mom, I simply cannot look away. The 22

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### scope of these problems will make the worst 1


### influenza epidemic we have ever known look like a 2


### case of the sniffles. That is why parents are 3


### coming together to protect our children and 4



### future gene rations from the health effects of 5


### climate change. They are coming here to testify 6


### to you today to ask you to take serious action. 7


### Power plants are required to limit 8


### emissions of harmful industrial pollutants; 9


### mercury, the chemical precursors of 10



### asthma

- p roducing ground

- level ozone or smog. In 11


### the past few decades, such limits have paved the 12


### way for air quality improvements and health 13


### benefits from millions of children. It is past 14


### time to use the Clean Air Act to safeguard the 15


### health of our children by l imiting the amount of 16


### carbon dioxide that power plants are allowed to 17



### emit. 18



### Thank you. 19


### [Applause.] 20



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for your 21


### testimony. Thank you both. 22

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### Are there any questions? 1


### [No audible response.] 2



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both very much 3



### f or your testimony. 4


### Okay. At this time, I would like to 5



### invite Garr y Harris and Dan Jora nko to please 6



### come forward. 7



### Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thanks for 8


### coming. 9


### Starting with you, Mr. Harris, could you 10


### state your name and spell it for the court 11



### repo rter, and then begin your testimony. 12



### MR. HARRIS: Okay, great. Good 13


### afternoon. Garry Harris. G

- a

- r

- r

- y. Last name 14



### is Harris, H

- a

- r

- r

- i

- s. 15



### Good afternoon, and thanks a lot for 16


### having me. My name is Garry Harris. I am the 17



### President and CEO of HTS Ent erprises. We are 18


### energy engineering, policy research, and 19


### education. Also, I am the Managing Director for 20



### the Center for Sustainable Communities. We make 21


### communities green, clean, healthier, and safer. 22

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### Also, I am the Managing Director for Emerald 1



### Citie s Metro Atlanta. We are all about good, 2


### clean, high

- quality jobs. 3


### Last February, I was returning from 4


### Florida where we had just taken some kids on a 5



### wonderful adventure at a naval submarine base. 6


### As you can imagine, they were so excited to have 7



### made the trip from isolated Sapelo Island to the 8


### naval facility, but for me, it was nearly a 9



### 9

- hour trip

-- a 9

- hour trip

-- and I was so 10



### tired. But little did I know that it would be an 11



### even longer day for me. 12



### As I neared Atlanta, I noticed that the 13



### skies darke ned, and that the snow began to fall 14



### on that day. It snowed harder and harder and 15


### then even harder, and then everything around me 16



### came to a halt. I saw large trucks overturned, 17


### blocking vital off ramps. I saw family after 18


### family after family with no foo d, no water, no 19


### access emergency are, stuck in their vehicles for 20



### hours. It was a climate

- induced severe weather 21


### nightmare. 22

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### I had made it to an off ramp where I 1



### worked for several hours to free a stuck MARTA 2


### bus. We used that bus as a rescue boat, picki ng 3


### up stranded elderly, handicapped, and 4



### transit

- dependent, vulnerable residents, 5


### transporting them to shelter. Children were 6


### forced to sleep in schools all night on that day. 7



### Businesses were forced to close. Thousands of 8


### flights were cancelled. 9



### I am c ertain that everyone in this room 10


### remembers that day, exactly what they were doing 11


### and where they were. It affected us all. It is 12



### a rare occurrence for extreme weather to hit 13


### Atlanta, but with climate change, that frequency 14


### and the magnitude of that occu rrence is going to 15


### increase. Both the frequency and occurrence of 16


### severe weather would dramatically increase, 17


### again, due to climate change, making scenarios 18



### like this one more and more and more common. 19



### Therefore, we must be prepared. We must 20



### act now, an d we must make our communities more 21


### resilient. We must learn to adapt, and most of 22

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### all, we must address root causes. 1


### Having worked at nearly 20 utilities and 2


### over 80 power stations, root

- cause analysis is 3


### fundamental to solving fundamental overall 4



### proble ms to identify proven corrective action. 5


### Power plant emissions is a proven primary root 6


### cause of climate change. 7


### The clean power rule and its requirements 8


### adequately address the primary root cause to 9



### solve the fundamental overall problem. We must 10



### act no w. We must all do our part. Our 11


### organization has already done several things. 12


### For example, for Emerald Cities, we formed a 13


### collaborative of experts and regional leaders 14


### that made recommendations not only to the Mayor 15



### but the Governor, some 19 of them, o n how to make 16


### our community more resilient. We are creating 17


### climate change action plans to address vulnerable 18


### populations. We are building resilient 19


### infrastructure. We are improving coordinating 20


### and communications. We found those to be our top 21


### priority recommendations. 22

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### We also submitted an application with the 1


### city to establish an Office of Resilience, so 2



### that we are better prepared for these extreme 3


### weather emergencies, with an emphasis on climate 4


### and weather mitigation. 5


### We are conducting events to c reate a 6


### dialogue and sensitivity on climate issues. We 7


### took community leaders on tours of the Weather 8



### Channel and also the National Weather Service 9


### seminars. We even had a global conference here 10



### on weather, with a focus on severe weather and 11



### its interact ion and its impacts on 12



### infrastructure. 13



### We have done a lot, and we have even, 14


### through the Better Building Challenge, audited 15


### seven buildings here and found millions of 16


### gallons of savings in water and energy and also 17



### CO 2 

### emissions, as well. So we are proud of our 18


### record, but everybody needs to do their part. We 19



### all have to address root causes. 20



### On a national level, Emerald Cities and 21



### the Center for Sustainable Communities 22

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### participate in national forums on climate and 1


### energy, creating appropriate policy pla ns, among 2


### other things. 3


### We are also conducting a research project 4


### to determine if we were to implement this rule, 5


### what are the high

- quality jobs that we can 6


### implement. 7



### We have also, as we started with, took 8


### youth on trips. We are also having a Green App le 9


### Service Day where we are going to invite about 30 10



### schools in and teach kids all about climate and 11


### weather and those things. 12


### The time to act is now, so please 13


### implement the clean power rule. 14


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Harris. 15



### Mr. Joranko. 16



### DR. JORA NKO: Yes. Dr. Daniel Joranko, 17



### D

- a

- n

- i

- e

- l, J

- o

- r

- a

- n

- k

- o. 18



### I am Dan Joranko, President of Tennessee 19


### Interfaith Power & Light, a statewide network of 20


### faith groups, a spiritual response to the moral 21


### challenges of climate change. I also teach at 22

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### Vanderbilt Divinity School, and I preach on 1



### numerous occasions at United Methodist Churches. 2



### We as a nation now understand that our 3


### burning massive amounts of fossil fuel has caused 4


### climate change. We are a generation causing 5


### climate pollution, but it's our childr en and 6



### their children who will suffer the burdens of the 7


### increasing weather extremes of unabated climate 8


### change, increased hunger, homelessness, a decline 9


### in public health, and the changing of the natural 10


### world that will no longer support their 11



### well

- being as it has ours. 12


### Through our inaction, we are imposing the 13


### costs of our behavior on our children and upon 14


### the most vulnerable. Climate change is 15


### fundamentally a moral issue. The core moral 16


### principle embodied within the climate change 17


### challenge is that we should not harm others for 18


### our own perceived self

- benefit. 19


### Our national moral response to climate 20


### change turns on our willingness to act on climate 21


### change, even if we must risk certain perceived 22

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### benefits from carbon pollution. While many would 1



### agree tha t our children should not bear the 2


### burden of our private gain, as a nation we still 3


### have yet to determine what it is worth to us to 4


### avoid future generations suffering from the 5


### consequences of our own behavior. 6


### The religious traditions represented in 7



### Tenne ssee Interfaith Power & Light teach us that 8


### we have special responsibilities to be stewards 9


### of creation and protect the sanctity of the 10



### natural world. These traditions can call on us 11



### to make sacrifices to fulfill our moral duties. 12



### The small but real chan ce exists that 13


### unabated pollution, carbon pollution, will cause 14


### an utter climate catastrophe that risks 15


### ecological collapse and untold human suffering. 16


### We believe we must avoid a climate catastrophe 17


### that might put at risk our very survival. The 18



### time to t hink about the future is upon us. 19


### We as a society must acknowledge the 20


### moral issues associated with climate change and 21


### the need for difficult and perhaps uncomfortable 22

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### decisions. We must reduce carbon pollution to 1



### safe levels. We can work together to re deem 2


### ourselves for the sake of our children. Through 3


### our actions of fulfilling our moral 4


### responsibilities, we can avoid putting our 5


### children in harm's way. Our children and their 6


### children will look back upon us with gratitude 7



### for what we did to abate cli mate pollution. 8


### We can uphold the sanctity of the natural 9


### world through learning how to live with it 10


### harmoniously. By keeping in mind those living 11


### today and in the future, the most vulnerable here 12


### within our community and those around the globe, 13



### we can p articipate in the collective moral 14


### response to climate change. 15


### Adopting national limits on carbon 16


### pollution of the EPA Clean Power Plan is a 17


### critical first step in abating our carbon 18


### pollution. Tennessee Interfaith Power & Light 19


### agrees with the EPA that the plan will lead to 20


### climate and health benefits, outweighing what we 21


### as a nation risk in perceived benefits. Our own 22

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### generation can benefit from being on a healthier 1


### and more stable footing. 2


### We as a nation already know how to reduce 3


### our carbon pollutio n, methods the EPA has already 4


### presented the states as options to use within 5


### their State Implementation Plans. Tennessee 6


### Interfaith Power & Light upholds the vision of 7


### our generation accepting the moral 8


### responsibilities of our actions and determining 9



### to d o the right thing, something that we already 10



### know in our hearts to be true. 11


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 12



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Dr. Joranko, 13


### and thank you, Mr. Harris. 14


### Are there any questions? 15


### [No audible response.] 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Agai n, gentlemen, thank 17



### you very much. 18



### At this time, I would like to invite 19


### Patricia Williams and Anna Jane Joyner to please 20



### come forward. 21



### [Pause.] 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Hi. How are you? 1


### MS. JOYNER: Good. How are you doing? 2



### MR. THOMPSON: Great. Thanks. 3



### Goo d afternoon to both of you, and thanks 4


### for coming. I would like to start with Ms. 5



### Williams. 6


### DR. WILLIAMS: Thank you for this 7


### opportunity to speak. I am Dr. Patricia Anne 8



### Williams. That's P

- a

- t

- r

- i

- c

- i

- a, A

- n

- n

- e, 9



### Williams, W

- i

- l

- l

- i

- a

- m

- s. I am a Doc tor of 10



### Education. I am a member of the Green Friends 11


### Group of Atlanta Friends Meeting, a member of the 12


### Sierra Club Centennial Group in Marietta, an 13


### active member of the Climate Change Lobby, a 14


### member of Quaker Earthquake Witness, and under 15



### all of this, I am the daughter of a forester dad 16



### who took me in the woods with him as a small 17


### child. I am a longtime proponent of health for 18



### both myself and others. 19


### Several years ago, I was evincing 20


### symptoms of deep fatigue. I was pushing myself 21


### to do everything I was doing. At the suggestion 22

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### of my medical doctor, I underwent a standard test 1


### of toxic metals in my bloodstream. When the 2


### results came in, I felt frightened, very 3


### frightened, because I had toxic levels of these 4



### elements

-- tin, bismuth, silver, aluminum, a nd 5



### mercury

-- in my blood stream and body. 6


### I immediately began chelation therapy 7



### with the use of intravenous EDTA

-- that is 8



### E

- D

- T

- A

-- which dripped in my bloodstream at one 9


### sitting for 3 or 4 hours. 10


### After about eight treatments of EDTA and 11


### being retest ed, new toxic metals appeared. These 12


### were titanium and nickel, along with a much 13


### greater increase in aluminum. The medical doctor 14


### explained to me that the amount of titanium and 15


### aluminum had been masked by the silver, and once 16



### the silver had been extract ed from my body, the 17


### titanium and aluminum showed up at their true 18



### toxic level. 19


### Several years after having undergone more 20


### EDTA intravenous treatment, lead and mercury 21


### appeared in the test results, as well as thallium 22

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### and arsenic. It was explained that th ese could 1


### have been masked by the former high amounts of 2



### aluminum. I continued with the EDTA treatments 3



### and am still in treatment. 4


### When I was tested in April 2013, I was 5


### extremely high in antimony, mercury, and 6


### moderately high in arsenic, cesium, lead, n ickel, 7



### and thallium. What were the sources or are the 8


### sources of these toxic metals in my body? 9


### My reading in medical journals and 10


### various health writings indicated that arsenic 11



### could have come from non

- organic chicken. Other 12



### toxic metals could have com e from non

- organic 13


### coffee beans. Lead is found in some lipsticks 14


### and some types of gas for vehicles. I had all of 15


### the mercury extracted from the fillings in my 16


### teeth, but mercury is also found in fish. The 17


### nickel could have come from the particulates of 18


### diesel fuel. Thallium is typically found in 19


### airborne plumes from lead and zinc smelting. 20


### Continuing the explore the possible 21


### source of these toxic metals, I read a press 22

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### release in January 2013 to the effect that there 1



### was to be an installation of filte rs on two of 2



### the smokestacks at a coal

- fired 3


### electricity

- producing plant north of Atlanta. I 4


### also found a study published in the Journal of 5


### Mood Disorders stating that the presence of 6



### coal

- fired electricity plants can correlate with 7



### airborne levels of nic kel, mercury, lead, 8


### chromium, cadmium, beryllium, and arsenic. 9


### The upshot of my efforts to rid my body 10


### of these toxins is that I am continuing with EDTA 11


### treatments and at the same time, I am continuing 12



### to drive in Atlanta's traffic. I reduced the 13



### amount of hair dye, which could have contained 14


### some toxic metals, and I have changed to safe 15


### lipsticks. However, I continue to struggle with 16


### fatigue. 17



### Over a 30

- year period of visiting my 18


### parents at their island home in the marshes of 19


### Georgia near Midway, I woul d notice that I felt 20


### more energetic after I had been there for as 21


### little as 2 days. I wasn't surprised when a 22

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### recent finding of the American Lung Association 1


### indicated that the coastal area of Midway, 2


### Georgia, had the cleanest air in the entire 3



### state. 4



### I feel deeply concerned also about those 5


### school children I have known throughout my career 6


### as a school librarian who bring nebulizers to 7



### school to ward off asthma attacks. 8


### I feel grateful for this opportunity to 9


### support the EPA in its long

- term efforts to 10


### develop clean power, so to make this area free of 11



### carbon

- based fuels. 12


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Dr. Williams. 13



### Ms. Joyner. 14



### MS. JOYNER: I am Anna Jane Joyner. 15



### That's A

- n

- n

- a, J

- a

- n

- e, J

- o

- y

- n

- e

- r. 16



### As a Christian woman and a millennial, I 17



### believe that climate change is the greatest 18


### challenge and story of our time, but I also 19


### believe that we can be the heroes of this story, 20


### and I think you all play a big part of that. 21


### I was born in Jackson, Mississippi. I 22

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### spent every summer at my mother's family home o n 1



### the Gulf Coast of Alabama. I was raised in 2


### western North Carolina in the Blue Ridge 3


### Mountains and live there today, went to college 4



### at UNC

- Chapel Hill, and have spent the vast 5


### majority of my life in the Southeast. 6


### These days, I am the Coordinator of th e 7



### Creation Care All iance of Western North Carolina, 8



### a network of clergy, lay leaders, and about 40 9


### congregations working together to protect God's 10



### creation. 11



### The Creation Care Alliance of Western 12



### North Carolina believes that we are called to be 13



### good stewar ds of our planet, God's magnificent 14


### creation, and to love and protect our neighbors, 15


### and that there's nothing we could be doing more 16


### to love and protect our neighbors than combatting 17


### catastrophic climate change, the biggest 18



### challenge on our planet today. 19


### We believe that climate change isn't a 20


### political issue, though it has unfortunately been 21


### politicized. It is a moral issue and, therefore, 22

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### a spiritual one. 1


### I got involved in this work because my 2


### father is the pastor of a large evangelical 3


### church just outs ide of Charlotte, North Carolina. 4


### His ministry actually owns the former PTL 5


### property of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker fame, so I 6


### grew up in the church. 7


### I became passionate about environmental 8


### justice in college after learning about how the 9


### terrible practice of mountaintop removal coal 10


### mining is destroying whole mountain ranges in 11


### communities in Central Appalachia, not too far 12


### from my beloved Blue Ridge Mountains and also not 13


### too far from where my husband grew up in eastern 14


### Kentucky, who is here with me today. I have been 15


### working at the intersection of faith and climate 16


### and environmental justice ever since. That was 17



### about 7 years ago. 18


### Recently, I had the surreal experience of 19


### being featured in an Emmy

- nominated Showtime 20


### series on climate change called "Years of Living 21



### Dangerously." The producers, Hollywood legends 22

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### Jerry Weintraub, James Cameron, and Arnold 1


### Schwarzenegger, believe that climate change is 2


### the greatest challenge and story of our time, so 3


### they rallied topnotch Hollywood cinematographers 4



### and celeb rity correspondents to tell the stories 5


### of ordinary people experiencing the extraordinary 6


### impacts of climate change and the stories of 7


### those fighting it. 8


### "Years of Living Dangerously" featured my 9


### story, appropriately called "Preacher's 10


### Daughter," in Episo de 4, because they were 11


### inspired by my work with the Creation Care 12


### Alliance and what we are doing with clergy and 13


### churches on the Asheville Beyond Coal Campaign. 14


### The Asheville Coal plant is the largest local 15


### source of not only carbon pollution but also ai r 16


### and water pollution in our region. Needless to 17


### say, destroying nearby Appalachian Mountains, our 18


### beloved French Broad River, God's magnificent 19


### creation, and the climate we all depend on to 20


### survive just to turn on our lights does not sit 21


### well with many o f the clergy, congregations, and 22

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### people of faith in western North Carolina. So we 1


### are working hard to retire the plants and move 2


### our region to clean, renewable, just energy. 3


### When we do, it will be the equivalent of taking 4



### 500,000 cars off the road. 5



### Befo re the "Years of Living Dangerously" 6


### project, I understood climate change from an 7



### intellectual, scientific, and even moral 8


### perspective, but it was a few months into the 9


### filming that I began to understand it on a deeply 10


### personal level. For weeks, I had imm ersed myself 11


### in all the latest climate research, reading about 12


### how climate change is harming and will harm 13


### millions, if not billions of people all around 14



### the world, and it is well documented that we are 15


### already seeing hunger from more pervasive 16



### droughts, d isplacement, strife, loss of life 17



### cau sed by flooding, mudslides, sea

- level rise, 18


### wildfires, and worsening storms. We are also 19


### seeing the loss of climate

- dependent livelihoods 20



### in industries such as tourism, seafood, and 21


### farming. The list goes on and on. 22

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### But I also began to feel this very 1



### visceral sensation of loss. As Author Zadie 2


### Smith said, "In the end, the only thing that 3


### could create the necessary traction in our minds 4


### was the intimate loss of the things we loved." 5


### Climate change is threatening the people, places, 6


### and things that I love. 7


### From my morning cup of coffee with my 8


### husband to my evening glass of wine on the porch 9


### with dear friends, from my occasional ski 10


### vacations to those spent frolicking on my 11


### family's beach haven at Perdido Beach, Alaba ma, 12


### from catching the Jazz Festival in New Orleans to 13


### hiking in the autumn glory of the Blue Ridge 14


### Mountains to the simplicity of a back yard tomato 15


### garden, climate change is messing with our 16


### everyday lives, taking away what makes our days 17


### special and mean ingful and allows us to feel 18



### connected to the world and to each other. It is 19



### and will steal those freedoms and far more basic 20



### ones

-- clean water, access to food, a place to 21



### call home

-- if, a big "if," we don't do 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### something about it now. 1



### I, too, believe that climate change is 2


### the biggest challenge and story of our time, but 3


### while it is a story of loss, it is also a story 4


### of possibility and maybe even a story of hope and 5


### healing, as well. 6


### We can be the heroes of this story, but 7


### we need you to lead this c harge and to pass 8


### strong, effective, carbon protection rules, for 9



### as we all know, when the United States leads, the 10



### world follows. 11


### [Applause.] 12



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Joyner and 13


### Dr. Williams, as well. Are there any questions? 14


### [No audible response .] 15


### MR. THOMPSON: Ladies, thank you both for 16


### your testimony. Thank you very much. 17



### At this time, I would like to invite 18



### Barbara Paul and David Theiss, T

- h

- e

- i

- s

- s. 19



### Would you please come forward. 20



### [Pause.] 21



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. Good 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### afternoon to the both of you. Thanks for coming. 1


### Starting with you, Ms. Paul, if you would 2


### state your name and spell it for the court 3


### reporter, and then begin your testimony. 4


### MS. PAUL: Okay. My name is Barbara, S 5



### as in Sam, Paul, P

- a

- u

- l. 6


### Thank you for coming to Atlanta and for 7


### allowing members of the public, such as myself, 8



### to comment on the administration's C limate Action 9



### P lan and to share a few thoughts. I am going to 10


### submit other comments, but just

-- 11



### MR. THOMPSON: Sure. Good. 12



### MS. PAUL: I commend the President and 13


### the EPA for your willingness to tackle the hard 14


### issue of frequent and intense climate disruption 15


### that we are experiencing around the world and 16


### also experiencing firsthand here in Georgia. 17



### Attempts to seek common

- sense solutions 18


### give me hope that the EPA is taking its 19


### responsibility to protect the health of our 20


### citizens seriously and putting our children's 21


### futures first before protecting the pocketbooks 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### of polluting industries and enormous power 1


### providers. 2



### Thank you. 3


### Speaking on behalf of my , well, 4



### grandmothers, as myself, or my grandson and 5



### granddaughter, ages 9 months and 3 years 6


### respectively, whose preschool playground sits on 7


### Martin Luther King Drive, right down the road 8


### near our State Capitol, thank you for providing 9



### at least a plan for action that may alleviate the 10



### constant deep chest coughs that they have 11


### developed and the potential asthma that could 12


### eventually keep their active growing bodies 13



### indoors on the all

- too

- familiar Code Orange Alert 14



### Days. 15


### I would like to just suggest one thin g 16


### for your consideration as you move forward. No 17


### matter what solutions are agreed to in curbing 18


### pollution and getting climate disruption under 19



### control, I suggest that you look at every 20



### proposal and apply a cradle

- to

- grave criteria. 21



### How do we start, and h ow do we end? From 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### build

- up to clean

- up, we must begin to honor the 1


### worthiness of having a safer society that invests 2


### not only in an innovative brain trust to provide 3


### innovative cutting

- edge power and development of 4



### new energy sources but also a plan for each 5


### application's waste, its mess, our legacy. We 6



### need to uphold clean

- up jobs as worthy, 7


### honorable, and profitable in order to provide for 8



### a healthier future for all. 9


### This is just one reason that I cannot 10


### speak in favor of the development of more nucle ar 11


### power plants which have not been able to provide 12


### solutions to the massive nuclear waste problem 13



### that we've had for over 65 years. If we have not 14



### been able to deal with the back end of the 15


### nuclear fuel cycle in all that time, why would we 16



### suggest that t his dangerous, dirty, and damned 17


### expensive

-- excuse me

-- form of energy be a 18



### serious consideration in the Climate Action Plan

. 19


### On the other hand, if all energy 20


### providers can provide a viable end game for their 21


### energy source, including a safe disposal an d/or 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### storage of their industry's waste and all the 1


### byproducts, they should be active and welcome 2


### stakeholders in the Climate Action Plan. If they 3


### cannot, I implore you to take them off the 4


### drawing board. 5



### We teach, ask, and even demand that our 6



### children c lean up their toys and their mess 7


### before they move on to their next frontier. 8


### Let's agree to apply the same protective and 9


### instructive guidelines, even with love, to all 10


### energy industries, especially those that are just 11


### being imagined. 12



### Thank you. 13



### MR. TH OMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Paul. 14


### Sir, please state your name and spell it. 15


### MR. THEISS: My name is David Theiss. It 16



### is T

- h

- e

- i

- s

- s. 17


### I am Mayor David Theiss of Ellaville, 18


### Georgia. Ellaville is a unique community with a 19



### blend of small

- town hospitality and large

- city 20


### conveniences. People can walk from their houses 21


### and shop for all their daily needs for food, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### gifts, hardware, clothing, and do their banking. 1


### It is a place where local business owners still 2


### greet you by name and family. Faith and 3


### community in volvement is not a thing of the past. 4



### That's from our website. 5


### And if you all don't like the air up here 6


### in Atlanta, you're welcome to come down to ours, 7


### because we can breathe quite freely. 8


### Ellaville is one of many public power 9


### communities in Georgia. Our community's electric 10


### department provides electricity at retail to our 11



### homes, businesses, and schools. Ellaville does 12


### not generate its own electricity. We receive our 13


### electric supply from Municipal Electric Authority 14


### of Georgia, also known as MEAG Po wer or just 15



### MEAG. MEAG is a not

- for

- profit entity 16


### established under Georgia's statutes that 17


### provides electricity at wholesale to most of 18


### Georgia's public power communities. 19


### More than half of the electricity 20


### supplied to us by MEAG is emissions

- free, 21



### gener ated from nuclear and hydropower sources, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### and we will be getting additional emissions

- free 1


### electricity in the near future from participation 2


### in the Plant Vogtle nuclear project, satisfying 3



### our needs for many years to come. 4


### We are very concerned with the U.S. 5


### Environmental Protection Agency's proposal for 6


### carbon dioxide emission regulations. These 7


### proposed regulations appear to go far beyond what 8


### the federal Clean Air Act actually requires and 9


### will adversely affect our low

- and fixed

- income 10



### citizens. The very clean fossil fuel

- generating 11


### units that supply part of our community's 12


### electricity would need to change their levels of 13


### output, regardless of cost and reliability 14


### effects. The existing and new nuclear

- generated 15


### electricity that supplies Ellaville wo uld come 16



### under EPA's regulatory umbrella, even though 17



### there's no emissions. 18


### Ellaville would have to acquire new 19


### renewable electricity sources that we clearly 20


### don't need, and Ellaville's ratepayers would bear 21


### the cost of this superfluous wind and solar pow er 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### generation that is much more expensive than what 1



### we already have. 2



### Ellaville's retail electric customers 3


### would have to meet new energy efficiency 4


### requirements that accelerate in stringency year 5



### by year. 6


### We urge EPA to drop its current proposal 7



### and to do what the Clean Air Act actually calls 8


### for; that is, to have Georgia and other states 9


### carefully review what could be economically done 10


### to improve energy efficiency at individual 11



### fossil

- generating units on a case

- by

- case basis. 12


### That is something I belie ve we can all support. 13



### Thank you. 14


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mayor Theiss. 15



### I would like to ask, What is the 16


### population down in Ellaville? 17



### MR. THEISS: It is 1,840. 18


### MR. THOMPSON: Are there any questions, 19


### additional questions? 20


### [No audible response.] 21



### M R. THOMPSON: Well, thank you. Thank 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### you both for your testimony. 1



### MS. PAUL: You're welcome. 2



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 3



### At this time, I would like to invite 4


### Russell Oliver and Mickey McCoy to please come 5



### forward. 6



### [Pause.] 7



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen, 8


### and thanks for coming. 9


### Starting with you, Mr. Oliver, could you 10


### state your name and spell it for the court 11


### reporter, and begin your testimony. 12


### MR. OLIVER: My name is Russell, 13



### R

- u

- s

- s

- e

- l

- l, and Oliver, O

- l

- i

- v

- e

- r. 14



### I live in Haza rd, Kentucky. I live in 15


### eastern Kentucky where mountaintop removal and 16


### strip mining is all around me. We need stronger 17


### regulations on coal

- fueled power plants. 18


### Stronger regulations would encourage the gradual 19


### elimination of coal and encourage alternate 20



### e nergy which would decrease the need for 21


### mountaintop

- removal coal and strip

- mining coal. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### According to recent health surveys, heavy 1


### strip

- mining communities are among the 2


### unhealthiest places to live in the United States. 3


### Strip mining is very destructive to unborn babies 4


### who have a higher rate of mental retardation and 5



### other health problems. Many people's homes are 6


### destroyed by flooding related to mountaintop 7


### removal mining and other forms of strip mining. 8


### Areas of mountaintop removal mining and 9


### strip mini ng have among the highest levels of 10


### unemployment and poverty. Stricter coal

- fueled 11


### power plant regulations would encourage alternate 12


### energy in eastern Kentucky besides coal, and more 13


### jobs would result in eastern Kentucky. There are 14


### more jobs in solar and wind energy in the United 15


### States than all the combined mining jobs in the 16



### United States. 17


### An increasing number of coal miners, both 18


### surface miners and deep miners, are getting black 19


### lung and silicosis caused by rock dust. A lot of 20



### miners have lost their jobs. A decrease in coal 21


### power plants would increase alternate

- energy jobs 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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- 445

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### to replace coal jobs, and alternate

- energy jobs 1


### would be better for workers' health and provide 2



### steady long

- term work, unlike the boom

- and

- bust 3


### of the coal industry. 4


### Water polluti on from coal strip mining 5


### carries the heavy metals and other contaminates 6


### of the drinking water downstream from eastern 7


### Kentucky to Louisville, Kentucky; Louisville, 8


### Kentucky, Cincinnati, Ohio; and all the way down 9


### the Mississippi River where it harms the fishing 10


### industry in the Gulf of Mexico. Alternate energy 11


### such as solar and wind would not pollute the 12


### water like strip mining. We need stronger 13



### coal

- fueled power plant regulation to discourage 14


### using coal and encourage environmentally friendly 15



### alternate e nergy. 16


### Coal is the main source of global 17


### warming. We need stronger regulations to 18


### discourage the pollution of coal and use more 19


### alternate energy. As coal production and the 20



### number of coal miners decrease, the subsidies for 21


### alternate energy should increa se. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### All the glaciers of North America are in 1


### a state of retreating. The observed retreat has 2


### increased rapidly since approximately 1980, and 3


### overall, each decade since has seen greater 4


### retreats than the preceding ones. The 5



### long

- feared collapse of a port ion of the West 6


### Antarctic ice sheet is underway and irreversible. 7


### The Iceland ice sheet, the northeastern part, is 8


### losing 10 billion tons of ice per year for the 9


### last decade, resulting in the rise of sea water. 10


### Cities like Miami, Florida; New York City; and 11


### Norfolk, Virginia will have future flooding 12



### problems. 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Oliver, could you just 14


### move the mic just a little closer to you, sir? 15



### MR. OLIVER: Okay. 16



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you very much. 17



### MR. OLIVER: Some scientists believe that 18



### an incre ase in earthquakes will result from the 19


### decrease in weight of melting glaciers. Glacier 20


### expert Jason Box said coal

- fired plants in Europe 21


### and China have sent an unexpected thick layer of 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### soot over the Arctic region last summer, which 1



### settled onto Greenlan d's vast frozen interior, 2


### increasing the amount of sunlight the ice and 3



### snow absorb, which in turn accelerates the 4


### melting. 5


### According to NASA, Greenland and 6


### Antarctica are losing three times as much ice 7


### each year as they did in the 1990s. The Arctic 8



### is w arming faster than any place on Earth. 9



### Fossil

- fueled power plants are 10


### contributing to melting of glaciers in the United 11


### States and the rest of the world's glaciers. We 12


### need stronger fossil

- fueled power plant 13


### regulations and more alternate energy. 14



### The he ating of the oceans from global 15


### warming makes hurricanes, cyclones, and typhoons 16


### more intense and evaporates around 2 trillion 17


### gallons of additional water into the skies above 18


### the United States, resulting in record

- breaking 19



### downpours all over the world and also causing 20



### mudslides. 21


### Sea waters are 30 percent more acid than 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### four decades ago and causing problems for the 1


### marine food chain on the ocean bottom. Large 2


### number of species are becoming extinct in the 3



### oceans. 4


### Dirty coal pollution near coal power 5



### plant s cause bronchitis, asthma, and cancer. I 6


### have talked to young people who live near a coal 7



### power plant, and they have suffered health 8



### problems, and they blame the coal power plants 9


### for their health problems. 10


### A product of burning coal is coal ash 11



### with all its health and environmental problems. 12


### Alternate and decreasing of the 13



### dependence on coal would solve many of the health 14


### and environmental problems. The price of solar 15


### panels has fallen 90 percent in a few decades, 16


### and it won't be easy to shift our econ omy off of 17


### coal, gas, and oil. Germany on a sunny day can 18


### generate half of its power from solar panels. 19


### Texas makes a third of its energy from wind. 20


### Kentucky gets more sunlight than Germany. 21


### Some analysts in Germany believe by 2020 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### that 50 percent of i ts electricity will be from 1



### wind and solar. With increased to alternate 2


### energy and stronger regulations on fossil fuels, 3


### we can stop our heavy reliance on fossil fuels, 4


### which are the major contributors to global 5


### warming. 6


### As a result of global warming, 10 0 7


### percent of California is in a drought, with an 8



### increase in fires and mudslides. California 9



### produces much of the U.S. food and crop 10


### reduction, which will result in higher prices at 11


### the super market and possible shortage of food. 12



### Governor Brown is even d iscussing water plants to 13


### convert seawater to freshwater, which is very 14


### expensive. 15


### Increases in storms like Hurricane Sandy 16



### and a recent tornado in New York State that 17


### Governor Cuomo said that part of New York State 18



### had never had a tornado in that area. 19


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay, Mr. Oliver. I'm 20


### sorry. I am going to have to

-- unless you can 21



### do it in 15 seconds. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### MR. OLIVER: In eastern Kentucky, surface 1


### coal is greatly depleted and deep

- mining coal is 2


### greatly depleted. The coal is rapidly running 3



### out. We need alternate energy to replace coal. 4


### Alternate energy supplies more jobs than mining. 5


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir, and we 6


### would also welcome written comments from you, as 7


### well, if you like to submit them out front. 8



### MR. OLIVER: Okay. 9



### MR. THOMPSON: Just sit tight for now. 10



### Thank you. 11



### Mr. McCoy. 12


### MR. McCOY: Can you hear me, sir? 13



### MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. 14


### MR. McCOY: I am Mickey McCoy. That's 15



### M

- i

- c

- k

- e

- y, and McCoy as in the victor of the 16



### Hatfield

- McCoy feud. 17


### [Laughter.] 18



### MR. McCOY: That's M

- c

- C

- o

- y. 19


### I am Mickey McCoy from Inez, Kentucky, 20


### home of the Martin County toxic sludge flood, an 21



### event that the United States Environmental 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Protection Agency once labeled the worst 1


### ecological disaster east of the Mississippi 2



### River. 3



### N ow, on October the 11th in 2000, 308 4


### million gallons of toxic sludge burst from the 5


### bottom of a coal waste impoundment and flooded 6


### our community. Our creeks and rivers overflowed 7



### their banks with black slow

- moving lava

- like 8



### toxic waste and went into Ohio and on down to 9


### Mississip pi. 10



### There were no immediate human deaths, but 11


### one would have to be a damn fool to imagine we 12



### suffered no health hazards from that toxic waste 13


### which entered our public water system, by the 14



### way. 15


### Now, if there are people in this hall 16



### that haven't heard of t he Martin County toxic 17



### sludge flood, you are not alone. Those of us 18


### from Appalachia know damn well why we are 19


### supposed to be quiet about such negative 20



### coal

- related events happening in our home. The 21


### coal industry and its powerful lobby demand that 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### all hil l folk follow suit alongside the local, 1



### state, and national elected leaders and the 2


### hometown media sources and alleged protective 3


### agencies from coal

- producing states and become 4



### Friends of Coal. 5


### Friends of Coal is a very successful 6


### campaign, using bumper s tickers and vehicle 7


### license plates, along with print and media 8


### broadcast propaganda to rally residents as well 9


### as those living outside the mountains into 10


### believing to regulate any regulation, to make 11


### bomb harvesting of coal and the burning of coal 12



### more exp ensive or troublesome for the coal 13



### brokers in America amounts to a war on coal. 14


### Now, it's as if there has been a pledge 15


### that has been taken by political leaders, such as 16



### Mitch McConnell, whose reelection coffers 17


### overflow with blood money from the industry

. 18


### The Friends of Coal Pledge must go 19


### something like this: "In the name of King Coal, 20


### I solemnly swear to support the bombing of any of 21


### God's mountains that might have a 2

- foot seam of 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### coal underneath it. I promise to turn a blind 1



### eye to the fact that Ce ntral Appalachia has the 2


### highest cancer death rate per capita than any 3


### area in the nation. I deny studies proclaiming 4


### that pregnant women who live under an MTR area 5


### have 185 greater chance of giving birth to a 6


### child with birth defects. I agree to dispute 7


### reports that claim mountain bombing, poisonous 8


### water and air, bringing about high rates of 9


### respiratory and circulatory disease, and I 10


### believe that burning coal does not produce 11



### chemicals that affect the Earth or its 12


### inhabitants. Furthermore, I will fight any 13


### effort for safer energy sources that will save 14


### human lives, so help me, my God King Coal." 15


### [Applause and cheering.] 16


### MR. McCOY: I come here from the stripped 17


### hills of Appalachia where people are dying. I'm 18


### not asking that you do your job, guys, not asking 19



### but, as a tax

- paying American citizen, demanding 20


### that you do it. 21



### Don't sludge watered

- down regulations. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Don't take the pledge. Take a lesson from the 1



### fearless Congress Members, John Yarmuth and 2


### Louise Slaughter, who are sponsoring the 3


### Appalachia n Community Health Emergency, referred 4


### to as the "ACHE Act," H.R. 526, calling for a 5



### national health st udy to address all the concerns 6



### that countless peer

- reviewed studies have 7


### uncovered in Appalachia. 8


### Listen now, you guys, America needs laws 9


### and regulati ons with teeth

-- teeth, real teeth 10



### -- to fight against corporate greed's heartless 11


### jaws of death. It's your job. Do it. 12


### [Applause and cheering.] 13



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. McCoy. 14


### Folks, if you could hold your applause, 15



### please. 16



### Thank you both for your testimony, first 17


### of all. Are there any questions for either of 18



### the gentlemen? 19


### [No audible response.] 20


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Again, well, thank 21


### you very much for your testimony. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### MR. OLIVER: You're welcome. 1



### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would lik e 2


### to invite Stephen Wilkins and Doug M

- i

- e

- l

- l to 3



### please come forward. 4



### [Pause.] 5



### MR. WILKINS: We're supposed to follow 6



### that? Wow! 7


### [Laughter.] 8



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen, 9


### and thank you for coming. 10



### MR. WILKINS: Good afternoon. 11



### MR. THOMP SON: We'd like to start with 12


### you, Mr. Wilkins. 13


### MR. WILKINS: Okay. Yep. My name is 14



### Steve Wilkins. That's S

- t

- e

- v

- e, W

- i

- l

- k

- i

- n

- s. 15


### MR. THOMPSON: And could you just move 16


### just a little closer to the mic, just a little 17



### closer to you. Thank you very mu ch. 18



### MR. WILKINS: I am a Kentuckian and a 19



### member of our Commonwealth's largest true 20


### grassroots organization: Kentuckians for the 21



### Commonwealth. I am here to speak a truth 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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- 445

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### different from the rhetoric that's been recently 1


### spewing from some of Kentucky's so

- called 2


### leaders, leaders beholding to large corporations, 3



### leaders who opposed the Clean Power Plan before 4


### they even knew what was in it. 5


### I grew up not in Kentucky but in West 6


### Virginia and not in West Virginia's coal fields 7



### but in what was then steel count ry. I remember 8


### seeing the sky glow orange at night as the huge 9



### blast furnaces shot sparks and sulfurous fumes 10


### skyward each time there was a blow. Snow

- covered 11


### ground would turn gray with soot in just a few 12



### hours. 13


### I was too young to know that it was the 14


### frequent weather inversions that made my asthma 15


### and my sister's asthma flare up. I lived just a 16


### couple of blocks from the Ohio River, an 17


### attractive place for a boy of 13, a place 18


### forbidden to play in or around because of the 19



### filth in the river. The river was at the time an 20


### open sewer with toilet residue floating by. That 21



### was before the EPA. That was before the Clean 22

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### Air Act and the Clean Water Act. That was the 1


### way business was done. Rivers burst into flames, 2


### 20 people died, thousands sickened from a 3



### pollutant

- laden inversion in a town about 60 4


### miles east of my home. Yet it would be decades, 5


### decades before America put the health of our 6


### children and of you and of me ahead of corporate 7



### bottom lines. 8



### Today, the pollutants we can see and 9



### smell are contro lled much more , and yet 10



### businesses still flourished. Now we face a 11


### challenge we can neither see nor smell. We only 12


### know of its presence because of the data sent to 13


### us by satellite and ocean buoy, numbers given 14


### meaning by the world's climate scientists. We 15


### only experience its consequences as our climate 16



### becomes more volatile. 17


### So now America must step up once again 18



### and put the well

- being of our children and our 19


### children's children ahead of corporate profit 20


### margins. We do not have decades to get started 21



### w ith this. 22

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### I have been in a unique position as a 1


### citizen and member of a grassroots organization 2


### to have been at the table with electric utility 3


### executives, administrators, and lawyers as part 4


### of a clean energy collaborative. Though I still 5


### consider mysel f a novice, I have learned the 6


### lingo. I know about baseload, dispatchable, and 7


### variable generation, various types of 8



### power

- generating options, cost structures, 9


### decoupling, automated metering, but I have also 10


### learned a lot about energy efficient and 11



### demand

- side management strategies. I have 12


### immersed myself in research on overcoming various 13


### barriers to advancing these strategies, and I am 14



### here to tell you that Kentucky has barely 15


### scratched the surface of what is possible. 16


### Do not be swayed by those legislat ors and 17


### corporate interests who say that the 18


### Environmental Protection Agency is killing the 19


### economy and destroying jobs. They want business 20



### as usual. That's understandable. Hell, it's 21


### easier to keep doing what you have been doing. 22

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### That said, Kentucky a nd the nation have 1



### innovated and shifted in order to create a better 2



### tomorrow. Just look at our rural electric 3


### cooperative system, and you will see one 4


### innovation that propelled us out of the 19th 5



### century. 6


### Kentucky's legislature has had bills 7



### before it t he last several sessions that show a 8


### way forward to reducing fossil fuel

- based 9


### generation while creating more jobs than 10


### continuing business as usual, good jobs that can 11


### be had, not just in Urban Kentucky but also in 12


### Appalachian Kentucky, a region that is f ighting 13


### for survival now that the coal is almost gone. 14


### These bills not only create new employment 15


### options; they also keep electric rates in check 16


### far more than continuing business as usual. 17



### Analyses, top

- quality analyses, have been 18


### presented to the legis lature showing a viable, 19


### rejuvenating way forward, yet these bills 20


### languish without ever coming to a vote. 21



### The proposed Clean Power Plan has set a 22

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### very low bar for Kentucky. Louisville's Courier 1



### Journal stated that the coal

- fired power plants 2



### already sla ted for decommissioning will take 3



### Kentucky most of the way towards the Clean Power 4


### Plan goal. The remaining 7 percent reduction in 5



### coal

- fired generation could easily be achieved 6


### through energy efficiency and demand

- side 7



### management. 8


### Far from imploring the agency to scrap 9



### the Clean Power Plan as vested interests insist, 10


### I join many others here in saying that your plan 11


### is not bold enough. Kentucky and the nation can 12


### do even more. Any revisions to the Clean Power 13



### Plan should be done to create an even more r obust 14


### carbon reduction goal. The costs of doing less 15


### are far too great for Kentuckians, Americans, and 16



### all our relations across the world. We have 17


### already tarried for decades, just as we did in 18



### the '50s and '60s when we knew American needed a 19



### Clean Water Act and a Clean Air Act. We don't 20



### have more time. The time is now. The action is 21



### bold. 22

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### Thank you for being here to listen to 1


### ordinary folks like me. God's speed. 2


### [Applause.] 3


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Wilkins. 4



### MR. MIELL: Good afternoon. My na me is 5


### Doug Miell. That is M

- i

- e

- l

- l. 6


### I am representing the Georgia Chamber of 7


### Commerce. The Chamber is the largest voice of 8


### Georgia's business community. We understand that 9


### our members shared one important requirement, and 10



### that is the need for reliable and affordable 11


### energy. It is a major key to Georgia's 12


### competitiveness and success and underpins our 13


### business investment, employment growth, and 14


### enviable living standards. 15



### The Chamber seeks to preserve these 16


### advantages for Georgia and its communities and 17


### therefore does not support EPA's decision to 18


### regulate greenhouse gas emissions under the Clean 19



### Air Act. 20



### The Chamber supports market

- based 21


### development of energy generation capabilities, of 22

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### which coal

- fueled generation is an important 1



### component. 2



### Currently, the development and management 3


### of the state's energy generation and distribution 4


### systems is carefully planned to stimulate 5


### required investment, provide supply certainty and 6


### reliability, and minimize, to the maximum extent 7


### possible, upward pressure on cons umer process. 8



### EPA's regulatory processes must preserve these 9


### principles. 10


### Georgia has already achieved significant 11


### emissions reductions through the combined actions 12


### of utilities, regulators, and consumers. This 13


### demonstrates that ongoing change can be ach ieved 14


### without driving the state's economy into a ditch 15


### or forcing consumers to bear the burden of 16


### inevitable price increases not only in power 17


### process but all manner of goods and services they 18


### rely on to underpin their quality of life. 19



### Data in the 2014 Ge orgia Energy Report 20


### reveals that in recent years, Georgia has 21


### significantly changed its energy generation mix 22

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### and reduced its carbon emissions by fuel 1


### switching, utility investments, and consumption 2



### efficiencies, and I think that number is 3


### approximately 30 percent since 2005. This can be 4



### attributed to a combination of market forces, 5


### regulatory stimulation, and consumer behavior, 6


### all achieved during a period of slow national 7


### economic recovery and without a debilitating coal 8



### clean power plan. 9



### Our state is a prime example of what can 10


### be done when providers have the opportunity to 11


### identify solutions that make the most sense not 12


### only for them but also for the communities they 13


### serve, something they will no longer be allowed 14



### to do should EPA's one

- size

- fits

- all r egulation 15


### be implemented next year. 16


### The United States can also learn a cheap 17



### lesson from the recent Australian carbon tax 18


### experience. During its 2

- year life span, the 19


### carbon tax slugged business and industry $9 20


### billion per yea r. Power processes skyrocke ted, 21


### all for miniscule, barely measurable reductions 22

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### in emissions. Businesses were hit with a tax 1


### their international competitors did not have. 2


### Some closed. Others shifted off shore. Many 3


### struggled to survive and prosper. Clearly, 4


### taxation and heavy

- h anded regulation are not the 5


### panacea to achieving meaningful reductions in 6



### carbon emissions. 7


### This pathway delivered at best symbolic 8


### emissions reductions, placed an undue burden on 9


### consumers, and clearly illustrates the economic 10


### uncertainty that faces the U.S. economy if EPA's 11


### Clean Power Plan is implemented, as proposed. It 12


### is not a pathway the Chamber wants to see imposed 13


### in Georgia. 14


### As has been demonstrated here in Georgia, 15


### it is indeed possible to achieve meaningful 16



### environmental outcomes while maint aining 17


### affordable process, without subjecting the 18


### economy to draconian measures that will hit 19



### business and consumer confidence, store business 20


### investment, and hinder employment growth. Rural 21


### consumers are likely to be hardest hit in this 22

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### scenario and have the least ability to cope with 1


### any price increases. 2



### The Chamber believes that EPA is not 3


### completely focused on respecting roles defined by 4


### law. EPA's actions must allow the states ample 5


### time to perform their rightful rules and 6


### rulemaking authorities. 7



### W e do not support EPA's heavy

- handed 8


### approach of many of its recent actions, often 9


### ignoring the specific needs of regions and 10



### states. We are concerned that EPA appears to be 11


### rushing to achieve an arbitrary deadline without 12


### fully considering state

- specific options, and 13


### individual Chamber members are very concerned 14


### that EPA's actions will undermine the reliability 15


### and affordability of their energy supplies, 16


### potentially impacting their business 17


### profitability and competitiveness. 18



### Chamber absolutely agrees that Georgia's 19


### natural beauty and quality

- of

- life are resources 20


### that should be protected, but we believe that 21


### that can be done in a way that does not risk our 22

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### ability to create jobs, encourage investment, and 1


### maintain the globally competitive status we have 2



### wo rked so hard to create. 3


### We implore the EPA to take the needs of 4


### individual states and our economy into 5


### consideration before finalizing the rules, as 6


### proposed, in the Clean Power Plan. 7



### And I know over the course of these 2 8


### days, you are going to hear much testimony from 9


### our business colleagues and industry, utility 10


### providers, et cetera, and the Chamber supports 11


### the views that they will be presenting to you. 12



### Thank you. 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Miell, and 14


### Mr. Wilkins, as well, thank you. 15



### Are there an y questions? 16


### [No audible response.] 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, gentlemen, thank 18


### you very much for your testimony. 19



### At this time, I would like to invite 20



### Barbara Kelly and Pam Jones. Please come forward 21


### if you are here in the room. 22

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### [Pause.] 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Go od afternoon, ladies. 2


### Thanks for coming. 3


### I would like to begin with Ms. Kelly. 4



### MS. KELLY: Good afternoon. I am Barbara 5



### Kelly, B

- a

- r

- b

- a

- r

- a, K

- e

- l

- l

- y. 6


### I am a school counselor here in Georgia. 7



### I don't have a lot of money. I don't have a lot 8



### of infl uence. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn 9


### last night. I'm not as eloquent as many of the 10



### speakers that you have already heard and that 11


### I've heard this morning, and I'm not an engineer 12


### or a lawyer, although you will hear engineers and 13


### lawyers who will speak t o the same concerns I am, 14


### and they will provide all the details and lingo 15



### that I can't. But I do support them. 16



### I am here to add my comments on the 17



### proposed Clean Power Plan, and I'll tell you how 18


### I arrived at my views after I first tell you how 19



### I feel ab out the rules. 20


### Number one, first, you need to make the 21


### rules stronger. I want you to increase the total 22

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### emissions reductions. I want you to expect 1


### states to expand renewables, both wind and solar, 2


### and rules should focus more on energy efficiency. 3



### The c heapest plans are those that don't need to 4


### be built, and that helps us put money in 5


### everybody's pockets, not just the utilities but 6



### cities, towns, and individuals in their homes. 7


### I want you to limit this business of 8


### changing coal to using gas. Where are we going 9


### to get all this gas? From fracking? That's a 10


### whole nother nightmare. No way can we afford the 11


### damages that this huge influx of natural gas is 12


### going to have, especially if it is all coming 13


### from fracking, which it mostly seems to be, to 14



### our water tables, and that gets us into a whole 15


### nother thing about the dangers of the most 16


### important resource, I think, besides air is 17



### water. 18



### And there needs to be ways to measure and 19


### rigorously enforce the rules. I have seen states 20


### with pitiful enforcement capab ilities. It 21



### doesn't happen. 22

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### Now, I want to tell you a little about 1


### why I have reached these opinions. I told you I 2



### was a school counselor, and you can also see that 3


### I have been around a while. Unlike the lady who 4


### changed her hair dye, I just never chos e to ever 5


### dye mine, so you can tell I've been around a 6



### while. While all this is anecdotal, I know there 7


### is research backing me up. 8


### In 1995, I went to training by the 9


### American Lung Association to allow me to conduct 10


### support groups for children with asthma at my 11


### school, and at my school, we had several children 12



### with asthma that I went back home from the 13


### workshop here in Atlanta. I went back and worked 14



### with these kids. 15


### Well, here it is almost 20 years later, 16


### and there are now so many children at my school 17



### with their inhalers, with their little machines 18


### that you have to do the vapors. "Vaporizing 19



### nebulizers," that's the word for it. It's 20


### incredible. There are kids bringing their 21


### nebulizers to school every day in their school 22

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### bags. There's way too many. It's impossible for 1



### me to hold support groups for them. There's not 2


### enough time, and we've got to get into No Child 3


### Left Behind and all that. We're too busy reading 4


### and writing. But there are just too many kids 5



### with asthma. 6



### So I don't want you to colla pse your 7


### proposed rules. We just heard from the Chamber 8


### of Commerce about how bad, oh, it's going to be. 9


### Our kids need them as you've proposed them, if 10



### not stronger. 11



### Now, I've heard other people here that 12


### were here today and probably will be here 13



### tomorr ow that claimed that the rules would cost 14



### people. Oh, they'd cost people. There was one 15


### lady that the audience hugely clapped. She was 16


### one of the first speakers this afternoon, because 17


### she said, "Oh, the poor people"

-- I think she 18



### was from Alabama

-- " couldn't afford all the 19


### expenses that the rules would bring on." Well, 20


### what about the medical costs when you have a 21



### child with asthma? Those medical costs are 22

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### overwhelming to families, and their kids are 1


### facing death, along with all the bills from 2



### medici nes and the ER trips and all of that. 3


### Another reason I'm here, not just from 4


### the health aspects that I see, is the effect that 5


### carbon is having on our weather. Two years ago, 6


### huge winds blew from a direction that wind never 7


### blows in my home, and I have b een in my house 8


### since 1978, and my wonderfully tall, mature maple 9


### tree blew over. Several nearby communities had 10


### devastating destruction, and I deal with kids who 11


### are now frightened when there are winter storms. 12


### I am almost finished. I am trying to 13



### wrap it up. 14


### MR. THOMPSON: All right, 30 seconds. 15



### MS. KELLY: We have had such storms, 16


### especially this winder when we lost huge days of 17


### school, and this is climate change. We need to 18


### cut the carbon pollution, and, EPA, you need to 19



### stand strong for we the pe ople. 20



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Kelly. 21


### Please don't leave us just yet. 22

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### [Applause.] 1


### MR. THOMPSON: All right. Ms. Jones, 2



### please state your name for the court reporter. 3


### MS. JONES: My name is Pam Jones, P

- a

- m, 4



### J

- o

- n

- e

- s. I am here representing Cit izens 5


### Climate Lobby. 6



### Citizens Climate Lobby greatly 7


### appreciates that President Obama recognizes the 8


### urgency of climate change and has directed the 9



### EPA to develop the Clean Power Plan. However, 10


### Citizens Climate Lobby would like to see it 11


### improved by expli citly including a carbon tax as 12


### a viable means of compliance and also including 13


### guidance on the administration, implementation, 14


### price, and escalation rate that a tax would need 15


### to have to satisfy those requirements. 16


### Citizens Climate Lobby is a national 17



### or ganization of citizen volunteers whose mission 18


### is to create the political will for a stable 19


### climate. In particular, we lobby our elected 20



### officials to enact a federal revenue

- neutral 21



### carbon tax that taxes fossil fuels at the source 22

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### of extraction and return s 100 percent of the 1



### revenue to American households. This will offset 2


### the rising cost of energy and spur the transition 3



### to low

- carbon energy sources. 4



### As we work for a federal carbon tax, we 5


### are also seeing many states studying this 6



### approach as a way to b oth reduce their CO 2 7



### emissions and also to stimulate their state 8


### economies. For example, Washington and Oregon 9


### are actively studying a state carbon tax. 10


### Among economists, a carbon tax is widely 11


### accepted as the most economically efficient and 12



### cost

- effecti ve way to reduce CO 2 

### emissions. 13


### Detractors who argue against a carbon tax 14


### say that it will kill jobs, drag down the 15


### economy, and burden families with higher energy 16



### bills, but a well

- designed carbon tax that 17


### recycles revenue back to households and into the 18


### economy would protect families from rising costs 19


### and actually add jobs. 20


### A recent study by Regional Economic 21



### Models, Inc., or REMI, found that a carbon tax in 22

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### California, even at very high levels and even on 1



### top of the cap

- and

- trade program they already 2



### h ave, would increase GDP and add hundreds of 3


### thousands of jobs, provided the revenue is 4


### returned to the public either as tax cuts or 5


### direct payments. REMI is a leading economic 6


### modeling firm whose clients include the Federal 7


### Government itself, many state a nd regional 8


### governments, and several leading universities, so 9


### it is a very reputable, respected economic 10


### modeling firm. 11


### REMI also just released a first

- ever 12



### 20

- year analysis of the impacts of a gradually 13


### increasing national revenue

- neutral carbon tax, 14



### and that study showed that under such a plan, the 15



### U.S. would reduce CO 2 

### emissions to 50 percent of 16


### 1990 levels, while growing the U.S. economy by 17


### $1.3 trillion and adding 2.8 million jobs. 18



### One of the strengths of the EPA's Clean 19



### Power Plan is that it's not t elling states how to 20


### meet the targets. Rather, it is letting states 21


### choose. Much of the draft rule includes ways 22

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### that states could be incompliance with the new 1



### rule. For example, cap

- and

- trade, renewable 2


### portfolio standards, and energy efficiency 3



### measur es are all discussed as compliance 4



### mechanisms. However, conspicuously absent from 5


### the draft rule is any explicit mention of a 6



### carbon tax. 7


### EPA officials have stated in public that 8


### states could use a carbon tax to comply, but if 9


### it is not in print, it is u nlikely that states 10


### will want to take the risk of not being in 11


### compliance. 12


### For example, in Tennessee, which is where 13


### I'm from, it is expected that the State 14


### Implementation Plan will be developed by the 15


### Tennessee Department of Environment and 16



### Conservation, specifically the Air Pollution 17


### Control Board. At their July 9th meeting, the 18



### Air Pollution Control Board reviewed the EPA 19


### rule, and Quincy Styke, the Deputy Director, 20


### said, and I quote, EPA guidance will be a major 21


### factor in SIP development. 22

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### Therefore, as you determine the options 1


### that states will have to be in compliance with 2


### the EPA regulations, Citizens Climate Lobby 3


### requests that you consider the following. A 4


### carbon tax should be clearly specified in the 5


### final rule as a viable means of compliance, a nd 6


### also, you should include clear guidance on the 7


### administration, implementation, price, and 8


### escalation rate for a tax that would satisfy the 9


### requirements of EPA's new rule. 10


### States should have as many options 11


### available to them as possible, as long as they 12


### are effective in reducing carbon emissions. A 13


### carbon tax would be highly effective and easy to 14



### administer. If states choose to make such a 15



### carbon tax revenue

- neutral

-- and they did not do 16



### so in Australia; it was not revenue

- neutral

-- it 17



### will also stre ngthen their economies. 18


### On behalf of our grandchildren and 19


### children and future generations, thank you for 20


### taking a step to reduce the causes of global 21


### warming, the most urgent challenge of our 22

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### lifetime. 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Jones. 2


### Just a quick question for you. 3


### [Applause.] 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Are you planning to submit 5



### written comments? 6



### MS. JONES: Pardon me? 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Are you planning to submit 8



### written comments? 9



### MS. JONES: I will. 10



### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. Because you 11


### referenced a modeling f irm I want to learn more 12



### about. 13



### MS. JONES: The written comments will 14



### have links. 15



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 16



### MS. JONES: Yes, thank you. 17



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both for your 18


### testimony. 19



### At this time, I would like to invite Alex 20



### Mullins and Nick Mullin s. Please come forward. 21



### [Pause.] 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon to the both 1


### of you. Hi. 2



### MR. MULLINS: Good afternoon. 3



### MR. THOMPSON: Could you state your name 4


### and spell it for the court reporter, and then you 5


### can begin testimony. 6



### MR. MULLINS: Okay. Do you want to start 7



### with me first? 8



### MR. THOMPSON: Please. 9



### MR. MULLINS: My name is James Nicholas 10



### Mullins, J

- a

- m

- e

- s, N

- i

- c

- h

- o

- l

- a

- s, 11



### M

- u

- l

- l

- i

- n

- s. 12



### I am a former fourth

- generation 13


### underground coal miner, and while I can't sit 14



### here and rattle off fac ts, I can describe what I 15


### saw and have seen around my home in Virginia. 16



### We've seen the creeks turn colors. I've 17


### witnessed the mountain above my home laid to 18


### waste. They took the top of it off to extract 19


### the coal and forever ruined our spring. 20



### We have s een the casualties of coal 21


### mining within our family. I've seen my father 22

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### struggle with is pain every day from injuries 1


### incurred in the mines. I see it in the injuries 2


### of my uncles who, too, were injured in the mines, 3



### who sometimes in a visit can't get of f the floor. 4


### They have to lay flat at their back and stare 5


### straight at the ceiling and apologize for not 6


### being able to stare at you or to talk to you 7


### normally because they are having to deal with 8


### those pains. Coal hasn't been kind to my family. 9



### I went i nto the mines myself hoping to 10


### give my kids a good future, and I realized that 11


### that's the worst way I could be doing it. 12


### We have to realize the problems that are 13


### being caused by coal extraction, by natural gas 14


### extraction that also is occurring nearby. We 15


### have to open our eyes to the much bigger pictures 16



### out there. That we can't live this kind of 17



### wasteful life. 18



### I have often flown across cities and seen 19


### the lights, millions of lights out there burning 20


### bright, and people will say that coal keeps the 21


### lights on, that this is important for our 22

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### economy, but I can't help but wonder why we have 1


### to have so many lights all the time. Is that 2


### really going to help our children in the future 3


### as we continue to blow up these mountains? 4


### [Applause.] 5



### MR. MULLINS: I've h eard a few of the 6


### testimonies from people here, from the business 7



### leaders, the people who look at economy and look 8


### at business, and I can't help but wonder why they 9



### believe or don't understand what it does to 10


### people to extract these energies. 11



### I was raised believing that we had an 12


### alienable right to life, freedom, and the pursuit 13


### of happiness, but that happiness seems to be 14


### coming for a majority while a minority are caused 15



### to suffer. It is a form of Benthamite 16


### utilitarianism, not democracy. It's quantitat ive 17


### heathenism whenever so many people in this nation 18


### get to have the choice of having a wonderful life 19



### and a healthy

- ish life while those of us back 20



### home have to worry about whether or not our 21


### children are going to be the next to go to St. 22

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### Jude's, whether or not our families are going to 1


### get further hurt in the mines or even killed. 2


### I know that we leave a lot of things 3


### behind. It is not just the mountaintop removal. 4


### Unfortunately, I participated in acts in the 5


### mines of changing gear oils , in which we ne ver 6


### captured it. One day, I decided to just 7


### calculate that up. I realized that we were 8


### draining 3,000 gallons of used gear oil into that 9


### mine every year. We had hydraulic oil leaks, and 10


### we were required to refill the tanks on our 11


### equipment. None of tha t was ever captured, and 12



### we would often have to go load 60 gallons of 13


### hydraulic fluids to replace used hydraulic fluids 14


### that hadn't escaped into the environment. 15


### These go somewhere. They don't just 16


### disappear. They either remain in the mine where 17



### they ev entually become part of the water table, 18


### or they end up in coal slurry, which again 19


### eventually ends up into the water table. 20


### We have to do something. The EPA is here 21



### to protect us. 22

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### I appreciate what you are trying to do, 1



### but we need more of it. We need focus on energy 2


### efficiency. We don't need to learn ways to find 3


### more energy and use more energy. We need to find 4


### ways to become more energy efficient, and that 5


### can bring us jobs. 6


### [Applause and cheering.] 7



### MR. MULLINS: That can employ coal 8



### miners. Tha t can give people all across this 9


### nation a chance to try to do what I was trying to 10


### do, and that's work to give my kids a better 11



### future. 12



### Thank you. 13


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Mullins. 14


### [Applause and cheering.] 15



### MR. MULLINS: State your name and spell 16



### it. 17


### ALEXANDRIA MULLINS: My name is 18



### Alexandria Mullins, A

- l

- e

- x

- a

- n

- d

- r

- i

- a, 19



### M

- u

- l

- l

- i

- n

- s. 20


### I am 9 years old. I am going into fourth 21


### grade. I used to live in Clintwood, Virginia, 22

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### where my family had lived in the mountains for 1



### almost 200 years. My dadd y was a coal miner, so 2



### was my papa, my great

- granddaddies, and even my 3



### great

- great

- granddaddy. When I was 6, we had to 4



### move away because my parents wanted me and my 5



### brother to have healthier lives. 6


### Other people in the USA don't live near 7



### coal mines. Coa l trucks came through, and coal 8


### dust was always coming out behind them. They 9


### haven't experienced having mountaintop removal on 10


### a mountain behind their homes. They did it to 11



### us. 12


### First, they take all the trees down and 13


### burn them. Next, they drill holes i n the 14


### mountain and put explosives in them and blow them 15


### up. It is terrible. If people know where I used 16


### to live, they would learn what is happening in 17


### Appalachia, like the mining which caused the 18



### creek down our hollow to white with black stuff 19



### all in it. 20


### I even saw an orange polluted spring 21


### coming out of the woods above our house, and 22

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### Daddy said it was the one that my family used for 1


### four generations before they mined above us. 2



### I loved our home in Clintwood where we 3



### could climb the mountains, but now we can't. The 4


### mountain behind our old house is gone. In order 5


### to keep all the flying squirrels and other 6



### animals, we have to save these mountains. That 7


### way, they can live and do not have to leave. 8


### The Clean Power Plan sounds like a great 9



### idea because we do need to use our energy wisely. 10



### I want the people to know where energy really 11


### comes from, because the mountains in Appalachia 12


### are being destroyed just for the coal. 13



### Coal

- fired power plants are making carbon 14


### limitations necessary because the coal

- fired 15


### power plants make carbon dioxide, and it's not 16


### just coal, though. It's natural gas too. 17


### Natural gas is being pulled out by wells. Some 18


### are even causing people's water to become toxic 19



### and catch on fire when matches are took to it. 20



### Where are we supposed to get our water 21


### from? That's my question for you. 22

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### The Clean Power Plan sounds like a great 1


### idea. We really need to be more energy 2


### efficient. Less energy means less mountains 3


### being destroyed, less springs being polluted, 4


### less wells being drilled, and less people getting 5



### sick. 6



### Please help us. 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Alexandria. 8


### [Applause and cheering.] 9


### MR. THOMPSON: I have a question for you. 10



### How old are you? 11



### ALEXANDRIA MULLINS: Nine. 12


### MR. THOMPSON: What grade are you in? 13



### ALEXANDRIA MULLINS: I'm going into 14



### fourth. 15


### MR. THOMPSON: You did an excellent job 16


### testifying. Excellent job. Thank you for your 17


### testimony, and, Dad, thank you, as well. 18


### Any questions? 19


### [No audible response.] 20


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you again. Great 21


### job. 22

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### MR. MULLINS: T hank you. 1



### ALEXANDRIA MULLINS: Thank you. 2



### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 3


### to invite James Rust and Doug Fulle to please 4



### come forward. 5



### [Pause.] 6



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen. 7



### I would like to start with Mr. Rust. 8



### DR. RUST: I am Dr . James Rust, R

- u

- s

- t. 9


### I represent the Heartland Institute. I am a 10


### retired engineering professor from Georgia Tech 11


### with over 50 years' experience in areas related 12



### to energy. 13



### The EPA came out with their rule on the 14


### 2nd of June on carbon pollution standar ds, asking 15


### for a 30 percent reduction on carbon pollution by 16


### the year 2030. Carbon pollution to me means 17


### soot. Carbon pollution to EPA means carbon 18


### dioxide is what they want to reduce by 30 19


### percent. Carbon dioxide is not pollution. They 20


### are saying thei r rules will help your public 21


### health and will also stop global warming. 22

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### I have heard the word "asthma" bounced 1


### around here. Carbon dioxide has nothing to do 2



### with asthma, no matter what the level there is, 3


### and this is pure fabrication by the EPA and 4



### misr epresentation equating carbon dioxide to 5


### causing health problems. We need it to live 6



### with. 7


### The science saying that carbon dioxide 8


### increases are causing catastrophic global warming 9


### is greatly overwhelmed by the stuff I got piled 10



### here. I don't have all. There's more that 11


### refutes. You are using United Nations' reports 12


### to base your rulings. These reports are 13


### distorted because they based on politics. This 14



### stuff is real science that shows EPA rules are 15


### wrong. Carbon dioxide increases has a negligible 16



### effe ct on global warming. 17



### All these rules that come forth here will 18


### do nothing as far as the climate is concerned. 19



### We talk about 800 million tons of CO 2 

### being 20


### reduced by the year 2030 for that particular 21


### year. Today, it is almost 900 billion tons of 22

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### carbon dioxide are produced on this planet, 94 or 1



### 95 percent by Mother Nature. So any of these 2


### activities here amount to nothing but an increase 3


### in your expenses, and the Federal Government will 4


### be telling you how to live, where you shop, and 5



### -- 6


### ATTENDEE: [Spe aking off mic.] 7



### MR. THOMPSON: Please continue with the 8


### testimony, sir. 9



### DR. RUST: Okay. 10


### But interfering in your way of life. The 11


### time this came out on the 2nd, the first thing 12


### that came to my mind

-- I've been around for a 13


### long time, and I have a lot of sense of history 14


### that's going on in this country. 15



### When I saw their initial announcements on 16


### this thing, I was reminded of Attorney Joseph 17


### Welch, which I don't think anybody in this room 18


### knows who I am talking about, but in 1954, he was 19



### an attorney repr esenting the U.S. Army at the 20


### McCarthy televised hearings on communism. 21


### McCarthy had accused his lawyers deporting him of 22

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### homosexual activities, and Welch pointed to 1


### McCarthy and said, "You have done enough now. 2


### Have you no sense of dignity?" I am sayin g this 3


### now in activities of EPA. They have done too 4


### much. This is going to destroy America's 5


### economy. It is going to ruin our ability to 6


### negotiate on foreign affairs. Energy is causing 7


### all this distress in the Middle East, if you pay 8


### any attention, and Putin has got power because he 9


### controls the natural gas falling into Europe. We 10


### can't explore because EPA's policies and the 11


### government policies are to thwart the use of 12


### fossil fuels and production of fossil fuels in 13


### this country. 14



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank y ou, Dr. Rust. 15



### Mr. Fulle. 16


### MR. FULLE: My name is Doug Fulle. 17



### That's F

- u

- l

- l

- e. I am the Vice President of 18


### Environment Affairs for Oglethorpe Power 19


### Corporation. 20


### Thank you for this opportunity to comment 21


### on EPA's Clean Power Plan. Oglethorpe Power is 22

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### o ne of the nation's largest power supply 1


### cooperatives, with approximately $9 billion in 2


### assets and serving 38 electric membership 3


### corporations, or EMCs, which collectively provide 4


### electricity to more than 4.1 million Georgians. 5



### On behalf of these citizens, I'd like to make the 6


### following four points. 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Could you move the mic 8


### just a little closer to you, please. Thank you. 9



### MR. FULLE: First, under

- construction 10



### nuclear should not be included in the calculation 11


### of state goals. EPA's inclusion o f Vogtle 3 and 12


### 4 in setting Georgia's performance standard is 13


### inequitable and misguided. Rather than rewarding 14


### states and utilities that are the early movers in 15


### permitting and constructing this important type 16



### of non

- emitting generation, EPA's inclusion of 17



### under

- construction nuclear in calculating state 18


### goals serves instead as a penalty. 19


### Specifically, the electricity consumers 20


### of Georgia should not be penalized for stepping 21


### up and spending over $14 billion on Vogtle 3 and 22

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### 4, which will provide the state wi th 2,200 1


### megawatts of power, with zero CO 2 

### emissions. It 2


### is blatantly unfair and sends precisely the wrong 3


### message to the business community. 4


### Second, Oglethorpe Power does not believe 5


### the Clean Power Plan, as proposed, fairly spreads 6



### the burden of reduci ng CO 2 

### emissions among the 7


### states. While Georgia has already reduced its 8



### tons of CO 2 

### emissions by around 30 percent between 9


### 2005 and 2012, the state is required to reduce 10


### its emission rate by another 44 percent between 11



### 2012 and 2030, which is the sixth la rgest 12



### reduction of all the states. Other states, which 13


### have been much less proactive than Georgia in the 14


### past, are being required to do much less than 15


### Georgia in the future. 16


### Third, we are very concerned about the 17


### potential impact that EPA's Clean Power P lan will 18


### have on the cost of electricity to our member 19


### systems and their customers. Over the last 20


### several years, Oglethorpe Power has invested 21


### around $1 billion on environmental control 22

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### equipment at Plants Scherer and

-- 1


### [Technical interruption.] 2



### MR. T HOMPSON: All right. Very good. 3



### Please continue. 4


### MR. FULLE: Okay. I will pick up again. 5


### Oglethorpe Power has invested about a 6



### billion dollars on environmental control 7


### equipment at Plant Scherer and Plant Wansley, 8



### which we co

- own with several other ut ilities in 9


### order to comply with various EPA regulatory 10



### programs. 11



### If EPA's Clean Power Plan were to be 12


### finalized, as currently proposed, these capital 13


### investments would need to be spread over and 14


### recovered over significantly fewer 15



### megawatt

- hours, resulting in an increase in the 16


### cost of the electricity we generate. This 17


### increased cost would be borne by our member 18


### systems and their customers. 19


### Another significant concern relates to 20


### how heavily the cost of compliance depends on the 21



### future cost of natural gas, which has 22

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### historically been extremely volatile. EPA's 1


### building block number two assumes a very large 2


### increase in generation from natural gas combined 3


### cycle facilities, which will significantly 4


### increase the demand for gas nationally. Exactly 5


### how much pri ces will rise in response to this 6


### increase and demand is unknown at this point, but 7


### the cost of compliance is so heavily tied to the 8


### future price of this fuel, this is a serious 9



### concern and one that we don't feel EPA has 10


### adequately addressed in this propos al. 11


### Finally, fourth, Oglethorpe Power has 12



### serious concerns related to the reasonableness 13


### and technical justification associated with the 14


### assumptions EPA used in developing the four 15


### building blocks used to calculate state interim 16


### and final goals. Almost a nything is technically 17


### feasible if you are willing to spend the 18


### necessary money, but we question whether the CO 2 19


### reductions assumed in the four building blocks 20


### are economically feasible. 21



### For example, EPA's renewable energy and 22

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### energy efficiency assumption s for building blocks 1


### three and four rely heavily on assuming what's 2


### been done in one state is therefore technically 3


### feasible and can be reasonably done in other 4


### states, a logic which we believe is seriously 5



### flawed. 6


### Just because a certain level of energy 7


### efficiency has been reached in one state does not 8


### mean it can be repeated in another state with a 9



### different mix of residential, commercial, and 10


### industrial electricity customers. EPA needs to 11


### develop the assumptions it uses to calculate 12



### state performance g oals by evaluating what can be 13



### done in each state. EPA should not base the 14



### goals on what a few states have done and assume 15


### they can be repeated either regionally in the 16


### case of renewables or nationally in the case of 17


### energy efficiency. 18



### We thank you for o ur time. 19



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Fulle. 20


### Just for clarification, your third point 21


### was address the impact on the cost of 22

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### electricity. Is that what it was? 1


### MR. FULLE: Yeah, the cost of electricity 2



### to our members. 3


### MR. THOMPSON: Okay. I just wante d to 4


### make sure I got it right. We had the mic 5



### problem. 6


### Are there any questions for either Mr. 7



### Fulle or Dr. Rust? 8


### MR. HUTSON: I just hope you will be 9


### submitting comments. 10



### MR. FULLE: Oh, we will. 11



### MR. HUTSON: Good. 12



### MR. THOMPSON: Well, gentlemen, t hank you 13


### both for your time today and for your testimony. 14



### Thank you. 15



### At this time, I would like to invite Ruth 16


### Bamberger and Bryan Tolar if they are in the room 17



### to please come forth. 18



### [Pause.] 19



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon to the both 20



### of you. 21



### MS. BAMBE RGER: Ruth Bamberger, 22

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### B

- a

- m

- b

- e

- r

- g

- e

- r. 1


### I live in Ludlow, Kentucky, across the 2



### river from Cincinnati on the Ohio River where we 3



### have seven coal

- fired power plants up and down 4


### the river in that region. 5



### I support the new carbon rules, though 6



### modest, redu cing carbon emissions by only 30 7


### percent by 2030 based on high emission 2006 8



### levels. 9


### The European Union, by contrast, has 10


### adopted a much stronger policy of 40 percent 11


### reduction by 2030 based on lower emissions 1990 12


### pollution levels. 13



### That said, I dismiss the harsh rhetoric 14


### and claims made by numerous politicians and 15


### energy industry leaders that the new carbon rules 16


### are unattainable. As reported in the New York 17


### Times on June 8th, the EPA gives Kentucky wide 18


### flexibility in reducing its carbon output by only 19



### 18 percent by 2030. Moreover, the state has many 20


### options under the rules to reduce carbon 21


### pollution, including efficiency improvements at 22

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### power plants, energy conservation programs, and 1


### renewable energy standards for public utilities, 2


### a policy already in effect in half the states in 3



### the U.S. 4


### Kentucky lawmakers can readily work 5


### toward the new EPA standards if they will support 6


### the Clean Energy Opportunity Act, which has been 7



### before our General Assembly the last 4 years. 8


### This bill sets the renewable energ y goal of 12.5 9



### percent from clean energy resources by 2024, sets 10


### energy efficiency standards for utilities, and 11



### establishes feed

- in ta riff rates that utilities 12


### pay in state energy producers. 13



### Moreover, a study by Synapse Energy 14



### Economics estimated that 28 ,000 new jobs could be 15


### created if this legislation passes. 16



### Coal generates 93 percent of the 17


### electricity in Kentucky. We rank number one in 18


### the nation in carbon emissions per unit of 19


### electricity produced from all sources. Indeed, 20



### coal is a culture here, but even natives of Coal 21


### Country recognize the inevitable changes afoot. 22

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### When I recently worked the crowds at the 1


### Cincinnati Coney Island Appalachian Fest, 2


### soliciting signatures on a petition to stop 3


### mountaintop strip mining in eastern Kentucky, I 4



### was ama zed by the number of those signing on who 5


### were natives of the area or who had family 6



### members who were or are miners. 7


### Last year, the state kicked off Project 8


### SOAP, Shaping our Appalachian Region, to initiate 9


### new job opportunities in the region. Non

- profit s 10


### such as the Mountain Association for Community 11


### Economic Development and Kentuckians for the 12


### Commonwealth are working to enable a transition 13


### from a coal economy to jobs in energy efficiency 14


### industries and agriculture. 15


### Citizens like myself ask our leaders to 16


### stop the foot dragging and face the reality of a 17



### post

- fossil fuel era. 18


### I thank the EPA for nudging us forward. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Bamberger. 21


### [Applause.] 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Tolar, please. 1



### MR. TOLAR: Thank you for that warm 2



### w elcome. I am Bryan Tolar, B

- r

- y

- a

- n, T

- o

- l

- a

- r. 3


### I am proud to be the President of the 4


### Georgia Agribusiness Council. We are a statewide 5


### trade association made up of over 850 6


### agribusinesses across the state. That includes 7


### farmers, processors, and distrib utors of the food 8


### and fiber products that we all enjoy. 9


### We come to you today in opposition to the 10


### rules that are proposed because of the impact it 11


### will have on our agriculture economy. 12


### When you look at the production of 13


### agricultural products, it is a v ery 14



### energy

- intensive industry. That includes a lot 15


### of electricity that is used for processing 16


### products like cotton, shelling, processing 17


### peanuts, even poultry houses and other livestock 18


### facilities. We also use a lot of natural gas. 19


### That natural gas is u sed to produce fertilizer. 20


### Nitrogen is the key component. The cost of 21


### producing nitrogen, 80 percent of that is natural 22

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### gas. So when you look at the energy alternatives 1



### that have been proposed through the rules that 2


### are out there that we're discussing t oday, we are 3


### looking at a drastic increase in the usage of 4



### natural gas product. 5


### We know from our energy providers that 6


### the cost of electricity is going to go up under 7


### this proposal, and we also know through supply 8



### and demand that the cost of natural gas a lso will 9



### go up. 10


### Now you think that perhaps increasing 11


### costs, well, that's just part of doing business, 12


### right; we just pass that on to the consumer? 13


### Well, agricultural products are sold in a world 14


### market. Farmers are price

- takers, so the margins 15



### there ar e very thin. When you look at increasing 16


### the overhead, then we look at decreasing the 17


### opportunity for those farmers to be profitable. 18


### We are competing in a global market, so 19



### what does that do? That means that those 20


### countries that we compete with to prov ide those 21



### food and fiber resources that don't have these 22

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### burdens, all of a sudden, have the economic 1



### advantage. 2


### The very industry that grew this country, 3


### the very industry that leads the economy here in 4


### Georgia is directly under fire by these proposed 5



### reg ulations. 6


### When you look also at food and fiber 7


### production, it is not just about what do we bring 8


### to the marketplace and what do we bring to 9



### consumers. It is also an issue of national 10


### security. A country that does not produce its 11



### own food and fiber is a country that cannot 12


### protect itself. 13



### I can guarantee eve r yone in this room 14


### today has already eaten or will eat. You are not 15


### going to pick up a gun and fight. You are not 16


### going to challenge the borders of our state. You 17


### are going to enjoy the agricultura l products that 18


### our farmers provide, and that much, we should be 19


### very grateful for, because that is real national 20


### security. 21


### As we look forward to this process taking 22

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### on more discussion and your time here in Atlanta, 1



### I want us to think about what the real economic 2


### impact are for our state, because for us, 3


### agriculture is not something that we do. It's 4


### something that is Georgia. It is our largest 5


### economic engine, over $80 billion annually, 6


### 375,000 jobs. It is not just providing jobs in 7


### an area large like A tlanta. It also is what 8


### drives the economies of rural Georgia. 9



### Two

- thirds of our state's counties have 10


### agriculture as the number

- one or number

- two 11


### economic engine, and those farms, they're not 12


### just farming. They're providing jobs for schools 13



### and for hos pitals, for libraries, for the feed 14


### and seed, and little grocery stores that are all 15



### scattered across our communities. This is an 16


### industry that is about community, and it's an 17


### industry that needs the big hands of government 18



### to get out of the way, so that we can complete in 19



### a global marketplace and do what we do best, and 20


### that is provide the cheapest, safest food 21


### products in the world. 22

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### Thank you very much for your time. 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Tolar. 2


### Are there any questions for either Ms. 3



### Bamberger or Mr. Tolar? 4


### [No audible response.] 5



### MR. THOMPSON: Well, thank you both very 6


### much for your testimony. 7


### At this time, I would like to invite Anup 8


### Shah and Rick Fowler to please come forward. 9



### [Pause.] 10



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen, 11



### and thank you for coming. 12


### I'd like to start with you, Mr. Shah. 13



### MR. SHAH: Anup Shah. A

- n

- u

- p. Last 14



### name, Shah, S

- h

- a

- h. 15


### Good afternoon. I am Anup Shah, Vice 16



### President of Environment Affairs at the Metro 17



### Atlanta Ch amber. 18


### First of all, I want to express Met ro 19


### Atlanta Chamber's appreciation for this 20


### opportunity to come here and share our 21


### perspectives on the proposed clean power rules. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Metro Atlanta Chamber was established in 1



### 1860. Over the past 100

- plus years, we have 2



### convened businesses and non

- profit lead ers to 3


### address some of the toughest challenges in the 4


### region. Today, we serve as a voice for over 5


### 3,000 businesses and over 1 million employees in 6


### the region. 7


### Earlier this year, Metro Atlanta Chamber 8


### received a presidential award for export service, 9



### lead ing the exports out of this country. So we 10


### are the economic development entity for the 11



### 29

- county MSA around Metro Atlanta. 12


### Let me begin by saying curbing carbon 13


### dioxide emissions is important, but Metro Atlanta 14


### Chamber has significant issues with the app roach 15



### EPA has taken through these proposed rules. 16


### Climate change is a global phenomenon, 17


### and it needs to be addressed in a global way. 18



### Each carbon dioxide molecule that is emitted in 19


### the atmosphere, whether it comes from U.S., 20



### China, India, or Brazil, c ontributes equally to 21


### the climate change. Today, India and China are 22

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### emitting more carbon dioxide than the United 1


### States. Energy policies in these countries call 2



### for several new large

- scale coal

- fired plants. 3


### Just yesterday, Australia approved a project by 4


### an Indian company to build one of the largest 5


### gold mines in the world. 6


### The point I am trying to drive is U.S. 7


### acting alone curbing carbon dioxide emissions is 8


### not going to solve these issues. We must also 9


### think about the unintended consequences of th e 10



### proposed rules. 11



### At Metro Atlanta Chamber, we know energy 12


### price is a key factor in economic development. 13


### EPA's proposed rules will cause underutilization 14



### or abandonment of some of the domestic resources 15


### for electricity generation. It will force 16



### utiliti es to offer energy sources outside of the 17


### economic dispatch. This will naturally lead to 18


### high energy prices in the U.S., and higher energy 19


### prices here will erode competiveness of the 20


### domestic manufacturers trying to export in a 21



### global market. 22

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### Over the la st few years, we are noticing 1


### a manufacturing resurgence in the U.S.; however, 2


### if the energy prices go up in the U.S., we will 3


### again see these manufacturers leave for overseas 4


### markets, to markets that are still relying on 5



### coal

- based but low

- cost energy. 6



### I magine this. If the same products, 7


### let's say this pen, is now manufactured overseas 8


### using a dirty power, there might be more 9


### emissions to produce this pen overseas than here 10



### in the United States. That is not the outcome we 11


### are looking for. By moving man ufacturing 12


### overseas, we may actually see the worldwide CO 2 13



### emissions increase. That is not what we are 14


### looking for. 15


### On a domestic front, the proposed rule 16


### will create imbalance among various states and 17


### disturb the economic development policies here, 18



### as w ell. 19


### Historically, Georgia has had lower than 20


### average electricity prices, because we relied on 21


### a diverse generation mix to provide fuel 22

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### flexibility and reliability to achieve consistent 1


### low prices. Simply by responding to market 2



### conditions and Public S ervice Commission

- directed 3


### adjustments, Georgia has reduced its carbon 4


### dioxide emissions by more than 33 percent in the 5



### last decade. 6


### Georgia has been proactive in adopting 7



### nuclear and other renewable energy sources, 8


### including one of the first nuclear plan t 9


### expansions in the nation since the '80s. In this 10



### state, we have invested tens of billions of 11



### dollars to expand Plant Vogtle nuclear plan, to 12



### produce new carbon

- free energy. However, the 13



### timeline chosen in the proposed rules does not 14


### appropriately credi t Georgia for these proactive 15


### actions. Rather, EPA's guidelines would force 16


### Georgia to make further investments. It will 17


### make Georgia opt for energy sources that are 18


### outside of the economic dispatch and again 19


### increase energy prices in the state. 20



### At Cham ber, we know uncertainties 21


### regarding energy prices breed lack of confidences 22

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### from businesses and manufacturers. It will 1


### impact further investment and job creation in the 2



### state. For businesses, reliable, cost

- effective 3


### electricity is of utmost importance. Access to 4


### reliable and affordable energy supply is critical 5


### to Georgia's recovery and future economic growth. 6



### EPA has never set enforceable statewide 7


### limits for all justified directions at an 8



### affected source based outside

- the

- fence 9



### measurements. Such a pproach, we believe is 10



### unprecedented. 11


### Rather than seeking parity in carbon 12


### intensity across all states, we believe EPA's 13


### current approach of outlining CO 2 

### reduction goals 14



### is random. 15



### The 2030 CO 2 

### emissions goal or carbon 16


### dioxide emissions goal for many st ates is lower 17


### than the beginning baseline for several of the 18


### states. We believe through this plan, EPA 19


### appears to be picking winning and losing states 20


### for economic development. Clearly, that should 21


### not be the objective and goal of the Clean Air 22

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### Act or an y actions to fight climate change. 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Shah? 2


### MR. SHAH: One last point. So I urge EPA 3


### to withdraw and reconsider the proposed rules. 4



### As I conclude, I wanted to draw attention to a 5



### recent development. 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Thirty seconds. 7



### MR. SHAH: Australian government voted 8


### just on July 17th to repeal a decade

- old carbon 9


### tax. Let's learn from the experience and seek a 10


### comprehensive and global solution, and we believe 11


### a solution for climate change should be a 12


### comprehensive and worldwide solu tion. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, and thank you 15


### for your testimony. We would welcome your 16


### written comments, as well, please. 17



### Mr. Fowler. 18


### MR. FOWLER: My name is Rick Fowler, 19



### R

- i

- c

- k, F

- o

- w

- l

- e

- r. 20


### And I'm just a guy. I'm 64 years old, 21



### and I live in Owensboro, Kentucky, where we're 22

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### surrounded by strip coal mines and coal

- powered 1


### electric generating plans. 2


### My father was a coal miner, a union coal 3


### miner. I grew up in Spurgeon, Indiana, so my 4


### friends are or were coal miners. Pike County was 5



### th e richest county in the state per person one 6


### day, and the next day, Pike County was the 7


### poorest county in the state per person. The coal 8



### mines closed down. 9


### Spurgeon is now an island surrounded by 10



### overturned and broken rocks. They were supposed 11



### to reclai m the land, but the land can no longer 12


### be farmed as it once was, and the only trees that 13


### are growing there are small pine trees that will 14


### grow in that poor soil. 15


### I was raised to clean up after myself. 16


### My father was sick from black lung, and he later 17



### died from it, so I did all the chores around the 18



### home. When I was 16 years of age, I learned to 19


### drive my father's '54 Chevy pickup, and I hauled 20


### coal to people in town that heated their house 21



### with coal. We heated our house with coal. I'm 22

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### quite familiar with what it does. I know about 1



### the soot. And I was taught I should clean up 2



### after myself. 3


### According to the third United States 4



### National Climate Assessment in the Midwest, 5


### heatwaves during pollination of field crops will 6


### reduce yields. Heatwaves during pol lination of 7


### field crops will reduce yields. Climate change 8


### will exacerbate a range of risks to the Great 9


### Lakes, including a change in the range and 10


### distribution of certain fish species and 11


### increased invasive population of non

- indigenous 12


### species, harmful b looms of algae, as well as a 13



### decline in beach health. 14



### Twenty years ago, my son and I took a 15


### camping trip to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. 16


### We swam or rather jumped into Lake Superior. It 17


### was so cold, we could barely stand it. 18


### I took another trip th ere last summer, 19


### and not only was the water warmer, it was much 20



### warmer, almost too warm to cool off. There was 21



### some sort of scum for the first 10 feet of water 22

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### along the shore. 1



### I support the CO 2 

### regulations. I do not 2


### feel that it goes far enough, but I guess it's a 3



### start. We need to clean up after ourselves. 4



### The United States National Climate 5


### Assessment, the National Academy of the United 6


### States, the Royal Society of the United Kingdom 7


### have written papers that support the consensus 8



### that billions of ton s of CO 2 

### and other greenhouse 9


### gases released by burning coal have warmed the 10


### Earth's climate, and consequences will be 11


### increasingly harmful. Dozens of other scientific 12



### societies have issued similar statements. 13


### If you wish to deny that climate change 14



### is h appening for any other reason, you must have 15


### at the very least similar sources to help private 16


### your allegations. We must move away from coal 17


### and begin a new economy using clean, renewable 18



### fuels. I think there would be less wars in the 19



### Middle East because of that. 20


### According to the 2014 Clean Air Task 21



### Force Study, the coal

- burning power plant in 22

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### Owensboro, Kentucky, the Elmer Smith plant, 1



### contributes to 230 asthma attacks as well as 14 2


### deaths per year. I don't know if that's carbon 3



### dioxide or soot, but it does. 51,000 people live 4


### within 5 miles of the Elmer Smith plant, and they 5



### face 3 million tons of CO 2 

### emissions as well as 6


### five other plants within a 20

- mile radius of 7



### Owensboro. 8


### In an article in Science and Technology, 9



### Issue 15

- 20, titled "Scientists P olitely Remind 10


### the World that Clean Energy Technology is Ready 11



### to Go Whenever," Dr. Sandra Eakins writes, "[We] 12


### are pretty much ready to go anytime. We've got 13


### solar, wind, geothermal

-- we're all set to move 14


### forward with this stuff whenever everybody else 15


### is . . . You seriously should see the new 16


### hydrogen fuel cells we have." The magazine 17


### Science and Technology stated, "At press time, 18


### representatives from the world's leading 19


### economies had signaled that they would continue 20


### to heavily rely on fossil fuels u ntil they have 21


### something more than overwhelming scientific 22

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### consensus to go on." I believe we need to clean 1



### up after ourselves. 2



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Fowler. 3


### Are there any questions for Mr. Shah or 4



### Mr. Fowler? 5


### [No audible response.] 6



### MR. THOMPSO N: Gentlemen, thank you for 7


### your testimony. 8



### MR. SHAH: Thank you. 9



### [Pause.] 10



### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 11


### to invite Ben Terpstra and Rel Corbin to please 12


### come forward with your testimony. 13



### [Pause.] 14



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. Just one 15



### m oment, gentlemen, to get the timer set here. 16


### Again, good afternoon. We are going to 17


### start with Mr. Terpstra. 18



### MR. TERPSTRA: Good afternoon. My name 19


### is Ben Terpstra. I'm 21 years old, and I'm from 20


### Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Ben as in Benjamin and 21



### T

- e

- r

- p

- s

- t

- r

- a. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Now, I'm not a scientist, but I learned a 1



### lot in middle school. I learned about 2


### equilibrium and the Earth's cycles and systems. 3



### I learned about the greenhouse effect, and I 4


### learned some simple math. And that's really all 5



### you need to understand why our emissions are such 6


### a huge problem, at least at a basic level. 7


### I also grew up in the Presbyterian 8


### Church, so I've had some key Christian values 9


### engrained in my soul, and for that I'm very 10


### grateful. I believe we are called to be stewards 11



### for God's good creation and to stand up for those 12



### whom Christ called the least of these, 13


### coincidentally those impacted most severely by 14


### climate change. They have no control over how 15


### our emissions impact their lives, and although 16


### many of them live in our country, ma ny more live 17


### on the other side of the globe. It's often easy 18


### for us to ignore what climate change is doing to 19


### them, but they are feeling its effects right now. 20



### In fact, the Department of Defense has 21


### identified climate change as one of the biggest 22

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### threats to global security in the coming decades. 1


### This stems largely from conflicts over our most 2


### basic resources, things like water and food and 3



### arable land. 4


### India is building a wall, far larger than 5


### the one in Israel, to keep climate refugees from 6



### Bangladesh from crossing into their country. 7


### Australia has deported climate refugees back to 8


### the Maldives, and places like Yemen that have 9


### nearly run out of water entirely, conflict is 10


### already erupting, and villages that have lived in 11


### peace for centuries are now fi ghting and killing 12


### their neighbors for control of the local well. 13


### The revolution in Syria was preceded by 5 years 14


### of draught and plummeting food supplies, largely 15


### the result of climate change. 16


### As for our own country, widespread 17


### drought is destroying live s in the Heartland. 18


### California is pretty consistently on fire. 19



### Hurricane Katrina in 2005 was the costliest 20


### natural disaster in U.S. history . In 2012, Super 21



### Storm Sandy devastated New England. Last month, 22

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### two tornadoes converged on the Town of Pilger, 1



### N ebraska, all but wiping it from the map, and 2


### just a couple days ago, a tornado touched down 3


### outside just north of Boston. Boston. Boston 4



### doesn't get tornadoes. 5



### We must stand up for the least of these 6



### for our children and for ourselves. This is an 7



### issue of justice, not liberal, not conservative, 8



### but moral. We must ask ourselves not what the 9


### cost will be of enacting these regulations, but 10



### rather what the cost of inaction will be. 11


### I don't think you need to be a person of 12


### faith to see that it's our respon sibility to do 13


### something about global warming. Is that still an 14



### okay term to use? For some reason, we seem to 15


### prefer "climate change" these days, but calling 16


### it "global warming" highlights one of the most 17


### crucial aspects of the climate crisis. It's 18



### glob al. 19


### I've worked on this issue for 7 years, 20


### and prior to that, I've always recycled. I turn 21


### off the lights when I leave the room, and I never 22

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### leave the water running when I brush my teeth. 1


### My family even owns an electric car, which I 2


### sometimes get to dri ve, but none of that really 3


### makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. 4


### It's incredibly important, and I hope everyone 5


### does it, but unless we make change at a societal 6



### level, none of it will matter. 7


### Climate change is a global problem. It 8



### has globa l impacts, and it requires global 9


### solutions. Individual actions simply isn't going 10


### to cut it. There have been several attempts to 11


### create a global coalition to face this crisis. 12


### Kyoto and Copenhagen come to mind. But the U.S. 13


### hasn't been willing to pla y ball. How can we 14


### expect the global community to act when the 15


### global leader won't lead? All right. I'll stop 16


### saying "global" now. 17


### These new regulations are in a very real 18


### way the first example of societal

- level action in 19



### our country. Are they perfect ? Absolutely not. 20


### Are they even sufficient? Absolutely not. But 21


### they are taking a step in the right direction, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### and it's the first such step we're taking as a 1


### nation. That, especially given our current 2


### political climate which seems geared toward 3



### preven ting action on any issue, is a really big 4



### deal. 5



### As a Christian, as a millennial, and as a 6



### future father, I thank you for that from the 7



### bottom of my heart. 8



### MR. THOMPSON: And thank you, Mr. 9



### Terpstra. Thank you very much. 10


### [Applause.] 11



### MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Corbin. 12



### MR. CORBIN: I'm Rel Corbin. I came over 13


### from Little Rock, Arkansas. My mother was born 14


### in Appalachia, Wise County, Virginia. 15


### MR. THOMPSON: Sir, I'm sorry. Could you 16



### state and spell your name for the court reporter. 17



### MR. CORBIN: Oh, I'm sorr y. Rel, R

- e

- l, 18



### Corbin, C

- o

- r

- b

- i

- n. 19



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. 20



### MR. CORBIN: My mother's father was a 21


### coal miner in Appalachia and in Harlan County, 22

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### Kentucky. He got black lung disease, so I've got 1



### an interest here. 2


### We must stop burning carbon to produc e 3


### energy. I'm not concerned about electric 4


### utilities making money and producing cheap power. 5


### Their accountants, lawyers, and engineers are 6


### very clever and can make big bucks and create 7


### many jobs by switching to renewable energy 8


### sources. They just have t o change their mindset. 9


### The very practical Germans are already 10


### producing a significant amount of their energy 11


### from solar, while they have much more cloud cover 12



### than most of the United States. 13



### Accumulation of waste from nuclear 14


### energy, from producing and burning coal, and from 15


### producing natural gas are becoming huge problems. 16


### And I understand solar and wind energy already 17


### provide more jobs than coal mining does. 18



### When World War II began, the U.S. had 19


### vast unemployment and was essentially bankrupt, 20



### but ext remely fast, we mobilized, industrialized, 21


### and created many millions of jobs. We developed 22

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### the atomic bomb in about 3 years. We can switch 1


### to renewable energy resources fast, creating 2


### millions of good jobs and making many people rich 3



### or richer. We must protect God's creation, 4


### including our children, and provide some 5


### leadership to the world. 6



### Thank you. 7


### [Applause.] 8


### MR. THOMPSON: And thank you, Mr. Corbin, 9



### and Mr. Terpstra, as well. 10


### Are there any questions for either of the 11



### gentlemen? 12



### I heard you say you were about to become 13



### a new father. 14



### MR. TERPSTRA: Oh. 15



### MR. THOMPSON: Not you? 16



### MR. TERPSTRA: I plan to. A future 17



### father

. 18



### MR. THOMPSON: A future father. 19



### MR. TERPSTRA: It's one of my greatest 20


### goals in life. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Well, congratulations with 22

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### that. Good luck. 1


### Thank you, gentlemen, for your testimony. 2



### At this time, I would like to invite Tim 3


### Darts and Susan Corbett to please come forward if 4


### you are in the room. 5



### [Pause.] 6



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon to the both 7



### of you. 8



### I'd like to st art with Mr. Darst. Is it 9



### D

- o

- r

- s

- t, Dorst? 10



### MR. DARST: It's Tim, T

- i

- m, D

- a

- r

- s

- t. 11



### MR. THOMPSON: D

- a

- r

- s

- t. Okay, thank 12


### you. All right, please. 13



### MR. DARST: I am the Executive Director 14


### of Kentucky Interfaith Power & Light. I 15



### represent nearly 3,000 members at 74 16


### congregations in Kentucky who care for God's 17


### creation and care about the people of this Earth 18


### and want a healthy future for our children. We 19



### support strong carbon safeguards under the Clean 20



### Energy Plan. 21


### I bring with me a petition of over 20 0 22

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### signatures from people of faith in Kentucky who 1


### applaud strong carbon pollution standards that 2


### come at a pivotal time when more people than ever 3


### have recognized the threat to their health and 4


### safety from unregulated pollution. 5


### I'd like to submit that pe tition with my 6


### written comments, if that's possible. 7



### MR. THOMPSON: Sure. 8


### MR. DARST: These rules will safeguard 9



### our communities, our climate, and our children's 10


### future. As people of faith called to care for 11


### God's people and creation, especially the mos t 12


### vulnerable, we have a moral obligation to address 13


### the profound impacts of the way we use energy. 14


### In addition to protecting our climate, 15


### curbing pollution offers many important benefits, 16


### including saving lives and reducing health risks 17


### to those suffering from heart disease and 18


### respiratory ailments such as aa. 19


### Many signing this petition are religious 20



### leaders

-- priests, ministers, religious sisters, 21



### and other faith leaders

-- who know that we 22

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### cannot continue to pollute God's creation without 1



### serious cons equences to the health of the people 2



### of this Earth. 3



### The Clean Power Plan proposes 4



### common

- sense solutions, and we support these 5



### first

- ever limits on carbon pollution from power 6


### plants. Our congregations are already taking 7



### action and, in some cases, reduci ng emissions 8


### from their operations more than 30 percent while 9


### saving money. They are installing efficient 10


### lighting, programmable thermostats, 11



### energy

- efficient heating and air conditioning 12


### units. Three have even installed solar panels 13


### and encouraged their members to do the same. 14


### People of faith know the importance of loving 15


### their neighbor by not polluting their neighbor's 16



### air or water. 17



### In Kentucky, we have some of the worst 18



### air in the nation due to our more

- than

- 90

- percent 19



### reliance on coal for electricit y. Asthma rates 20


### are wreaking havoc on our children. 21


### I had a personal experience with this 22

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### myself. When my daughter was 14 and she was on 1


### the gulf team at her high school, I had her out 2


### in a city park in Louisville practicing her 3


### putts. She hit a really long putt, and I mean 4



### really long, the full length of the green, and 5


### she got really excited. She jumped up and down 6


### and started running over to give me a big hug, 7



### and she lost her breath. She had never had any 8


### asthma problems before. She started panick ing, 9


### and she hyperventilated. 10



### I took her to an emergency room at 11


### Audubon Hospital in Louisville, and when we got 12


### there, we noticed that the emergency room was 13



### very busy, lots of people there, and I got a 14



### little worried that we wouldn't be able to treat 15



### he r immediately. But they took her right back, 16



### put her on oxygen, and she's okay. 17


### But I asked the nurse what's going on, 18


### and she says, "Well, it's Ozone Alert Day. In 19



### the summer, we burn so much coal because of air 20


### conditioning that the ozone levels are r eally 21


### high," and she said, "You shouldn't be out. 22

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### Young people, older people shouldn't be out on 1


### those days." That was something that really 2



### changed the way I looked at Ozone Alert Days and 3


### the way we get our electricity. 4



### We cannot continue to burn foss il fuels 5


### without having serious health effects that prey 6


### upon the most vulnerable of our population. We 7


### need serious energy

- efficiency measures to reduce 8


### the horrible waste we are seeing in this country, 9


### particularly in Kentucky. We also need incentive 10



### f or renewable energy sources like wind, solar, 11


### geothermal, and hydroelectric. Strict standards 12


### for carbon pollution will move us in the right 13


### direction. Kentucky is one of the worst states 14


### in terms of our percentage of energy we get from 15



### fossil fuels. Co nsequently, we have some of the 16



### worst air in the nation. 17


### As a seventh generation Kentuckian, I 18



### believe we need this Clean Power Plan, and we 19


### don't need to give Kentucky any breaks on it. We 20


### need the clean air benefits more than any other 21



### state. 22

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### We have a moral obligation to protect our 1


### children and future generations from the impacts 2


### of climate change by addressing the single 3


### largest source of carbon pollution in our 4



### country: power plants. 5


### Drawing on the strength and ingenuity of 6



### American innovation, the EPA's Clean Power Plan 7


### helps drive investment in energy efficiency and 8


### clean energy that will power the 21st century. 9



### The Clean Power Plan means we will never have to 10


### choose between healthy communities and healthy 11


### economy. America will benefit from e nergy 12


### innovation with lower energy costs, more 13


### diversified and safer energy supplies, and 14


### cleaner energy. For the health of our children 15


### and grandchildren, in the interest of clean air 16


### and clean water, I urge you to implement strong 17



### carbon standards to pr otect God's creation. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Darst. 20



### Ms. Corbett. 21



### MS. CORBETT: Thank you. Good afternoon. 22

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### My name is Susan Corbett. that's S

- u

- s

- a

- n, 1



### C

- o

- r

- b

- e

- t

- t. I live in West Columbia, South 2



### Carolina. I am the Chair of the S outh Carolina 3


### Chapter of the Sierra Club, and I'm also Chair of 4



### the National Sierra Club Nuclear

- Free Campaign. 5


### So I'm here today kind of wearing two hats, 6


### although in this situation, they are kind of 7


### virtually one in the same. 8



### I want to thank you for ho lding these 9


### hearings and for being so patient and listening 10


### to all of this, and I hate to start off by being 11


### negative, but I want to say that we want to take 12



### issue with this all

- of

- the

- above energy plan that 13


### the EPA seems to be endorsing with these carbon 14


### rules. I will tell you why we are not in favor 15



### of the all

- of

- the

- above approach. 16



### All of the above has brought us mercury 17


### in our rivers and in our fish. It's brought us 18


### mountains of coal ash leaking arsenic into our 19


### water, and it's brought us unbreathabl e air. All 20


### of the above has brought us fracking and a toxic 21


### stew of chemicals injected into our groundwater, 22

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### methane in our drinking wells, and earthquakes 1



### where there never were earthquakes before. All 2



### of the above has brought us 80,000 tons of 3


### plutoniu m

- laced nuclear waste with nowhere to go 4


### and no way to get rid of it, 7,000 tons of it in 5


### my own state, South Carolina, and I can tell you, 6


### all of you out there with nuclear power plants, 7


### if you think you are going to dump your nuclear 8



### waste in South Carol ina, you better think again. 9


### It has also brought us radioactive 10


### tritium leaking into our rivers. Virtually, 11


### every nuclear power plant is leaking tritium into 12


### the groundwater. And it's brought us the 13


### continued use of 23 dangerous Fukushima Type Mark 14



### I re actors, one of them here in Georgia, and an 15


### oversight agency populated by industry insiders. 16



### That's what the all

- of

- the

- above approach is 17


### bringing us. 18



### And what these carbon rules seem to be 19


### indicating is that in all likelihood, we are 20


### going to see more f racking for natural gas and 21


### more building of nuclear power plants as well as 22

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### the relicensing and continuing drawing out of 1


### these unsafe aging reactors. This is very 2


### concerning to South Carolina. In particular, we 3



### have seven reactors, two of them that hav e 4


### consistently been on the NRC Most Dangerous

-- 5



### Most Unsafe Reactor List. 6


### This proposal effectively supports 7


### nuclear power and natural gas fracking without 8


### any mention or consideration to the environmental 9


### and economic effects of the result of promoting 10


### these things. 11


### Corporations are not going to reduce 12


### nuclear and natural gas if coal is completely 13


### shut down. It is just going to make gas and 14



### nukes more attractive, the baseload model, and 15


### especially if the EPA puts your finger on the 16



### scale and kind of cr eates advantages for these 17


### industries and seems to be promoting them. 18



### Nuclear and natural gas are not clean 19


### energies. I cannot believe that we are even 20


### considering thinking nuclear is clean. Yes, it 21


### may not be released in carbon, but there is 22

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### nothing cl ean about nuclear power. 1


### The EPA should not be characterizing 2


### nuclear as clean energy. You could say it's 3



### low

- carbon energy, but it is not clean. The fact 4


### that even as we speak today, the EPA is 5


### attempting to reduce the ionizing radiation 6


### protection rul es to what we think are ridiculous 7


### levels. This should be a wakeup call to all of 8


### us who seem to not be understanding that the 9


### EPA's actions means the future of our energy 10


### policy and the political support for increase in 11



### governmental

- sponsored nuclear pow er. Increasing 12


### nuclear power is going to mean more radiation in 13


### the environment, and a lowering of the standards 14


### means we're all going to get more doses of 15



### radiation. 16


### Now, I don't want you to interpret this 17


### as a statement that I am supporting dirty coal 18


### and its debilitating health effects and its 19


### horrible effect and it's ruining our climate. 20



### No. We know that carbon emissions must be cut. 21


### This is a warning to use caution in the direction 22

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### of the travel in the EPA as there appears to be 1



### no vision for the future. It could be said that 2


### you're being reactionary and actually supporting 3


### that which creates greater environmental debt 4


### down the road due to a very myopic approach to 5


### energy policy. 6



### A much better course in our mind would be 7


### just a comprehensive ener gy policy supporting 8


### energy efficiency, sustainable, renewable, a 9


### really clean energy power generating forms, not a 10


### lackluster, piecemeal environmental policy in 11


### which the cancellation of one poison will 12


### increase the use of other poisons. That sooner 13



### or l ater, you're going to be back here forcing

-- 14


### we're going to have to confront these poisons, 15


### along with all of the impacts on their health and 16



### our safety. 17


### The EPA's draft carbon pollution rule for 18


### the first time declares nuclear power a core 19



### element of th e nation's climate policy and pushes 20


### states to preserve, expand, and subsidize nuclear 21


### reactors. You seem to be pressuring states to 22

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### ensure that reactors that are now being built are 1



### completed, no matter what the cost, and I can 2


### tell you in South Carolina , we have had five rate 3



### hikes associated with V.C. Summer. We are 45 4



### percent coal, 55 percent nuclear. We now pay the 5


### highest energy cost in the whole South because of 6


### our commitment to nuclear power. So you cannot 7


### be pushing this. It's too expensive. 8


### Overcommitment to nuclear power has 9


### ensured that our state has the highest cost, and 10


### in fact, the big energy users in our state have 11


### partnered with South Carolina in the latest 12


### challenge at the Public Service Commission about 13



### the cost overruns at V.C. Sum mer. So the energy 14



### users are very concerned about the cost of 15



### energy, and we have no solar. It's all nuclear. 16


### So you are encouraging states to 17


### subsidize this instead of opening the door to 18


### other things. 19


### I am going to move on because I know I am 20


### running out of time here. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: Yes. Final thoughts? 22

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### MS. CORBETT: I am just going to skip to 1


### the end here. I think you see where I am going 2



### here. 3


### I will mention you have also ignored the 4


### vast consumptive water needs of nuclear, which is 5


### going to b e a big problem in a global warming 6



### world. 7


### So we want you to abandon your incentives 8


### and subsidies for nuclear power and instead focus 9



### on clean renewable energy. 10



### You know, I'm old enough, and I'm not 11


### going to say how old, but I'm old enough to 12



### remember w hen President Kennedy said, "We're 13


### going to go to the Moon," and we all went, "Go to 14



### the Moon?" We went to the Moon 7 years later. 15


### We created a million products just to go to the 16



### Moon. We can do this. We can cut carbon. We 17


### can move away from fossil fu els. We can create a 18



### truly green clean energy economy. 19



### Thank you. 20


### [Applause and cheering.] 21



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Corbett and 22

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### Mr. Darst. Before you go, are there any 1


### questions? 2


### [No audible response.] 3



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you both for your 4



### tes timony. Thank you. 5


### We are going to take a really quick 6



### 10

- minute break. If folks could be back at 4:25. 7


### Before you leave, Julian McQueen and Bob 8


### Gale are going to be testifying when we come back 9



### from break. 10


### [Recess taken from 4:15 to 4:25 p.m.] 11



### MR. T HOMPSON: Ladies and gentlemen, we 12


### are going to get started again, so if you could, 13



### grab a seat. 14


### Again, I would like to invite Julian 15



### McQueen and Bob Gale. 16



### [Pause.] 17



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, gentlemen, 18



### How are you? 19



### MR. McQUEEN: Good afternoon. 20



### M R. GALE: Good afternoon. 21



### MR. THOMPSON: We would like to start 22

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### with you, Mr. McQueen. If you could, just state 1


### your name, spell it for the court reporter, and 2


### then you can begin your testimony. 3


### MR. McQUEEN: Julian McQueen, 4



### J

- u

- l

- i

- a

- n. Last name, McQ ueen, M

- c

- Q

- u

- e

- e

- n. 5


### All right. So good afternoon, and thank 6


### you for the honor and privilege to be here. I'm 7



### so glad to be here today. 8


### I am here representing an organization 9



### called Green for All, and Green for All is a 10


### national organization, a non

- prof it organization. 11


### Our mission is to help to develop an inclusive 12


### green economy strong enough to lift people out of 13


### poverty, and it's that mission that brings us 14


### here today, because I think the clean power rule, 15



### the Clean Power Plan, and the issues that we' re 16


### looking at today are really the nexus of those 17


### two things, the environment and the economy. 18


### At Green for All, we particularly focus 19



### on low

- income communities and communities of 20



### color. That's our focus. That's who we work 21



### with, and that's who we work for. 22

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### For that reason, it's even more important 1



### that we're here, because this rule has such a 2



### direct effect on the communities that we serve. 3


### When we talk about climate change and when we 4


### talk about carbon pollution that causes climate 5



### change, low

- income communities and communities of 6



### color bear the burden of the choices we make on 7



### both the cause and the effects. So, globally and 8


### nationally, when you look at what's happening in 9


### terms of climate change, the severity of storms, 10


### increasing number of storms, it is poor 11



### communities that suffer from that who are less 12


### able to adapt to what's needed, what's happening, 13


### who is less able to leave a community in the time 14



### of urgency. That takes place globally and here 15



### in the United States. 16



### Also, when we talk about ho w we are 17


### creating our energy, it's also low

- income 18


### communities largely and communities of color that 19



### bear the burden of the choices that we make 20


### there. The NAACP came out with a report called 21


### "Energy Justice," and it states that 68 percent 22

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### of African Amer icans live within 30 miles of a 1



### coal

- fired power plant, and what that means is 2


### that, also in the same report, one in six African 3


### American children experience asthma versus one in 4


### ten nationally, as the national average. That's 5


### almost twice as many. So we are really seeing 6


### poor communities and communities of color are 7


### bearing an undue and unjust and unfair burden 8



### when it comes to the choices we make around 9


### energy, and that's why this plan is so important. 10


### It is time to shift away from these energies, 11



### from this dirty energy, and it's time to shift 12



### towards clean energy. 13


### It's a moral obligation. It's one that 14



### we all share, and it's one that we'll all benefit 15



### from if we do it and if we do it well. 16



### I also think it's makes fiscal sense to 17


### begin to look at how we create our energy, 18


### especially when we take into account the cost of 19


### inaction. I think the cost of dealing with the 20


### effects of unmitigated climate change would make 21


### the cost of shifting away from dirty energy just 22

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### peanuts at best. Maybe not peanuts. Maybe 1


### peanut shells. It is almost incomprehensible, 2


### the cost, if we don't begin to try to address 3


### climate change. 4


### I think when you look at it from there, 5


### when you look at it as a health care issue, in 6


### 2011, we spent $100 billion on health care issues 7



### re lated to coal, $100 billion in 1 year related 8


### to coal only. That is a huge amount of money, 9


### and so I think when you take into accounts things 10


### like that, shifting away makes good economic 11



### sense. 12


### I think one of the big questions is how 13



### do we do it and what 's there, and I don't have 14



### all the answers there. I think we have some 15


### really, really solid options, but what I do know 16


### is that if we get serious about our decision to 17


### move away from dirty energy, then we will get 18



### serious about innovation, and we will fin d the 19



### solutions that we need. I think we can do it 20


### quickly. 21


### Somebody just mentioned that when we 22

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### decided to go to the Moon, we just did it, and it 1


### didn't take long. And we created a ton of 2


### products and services and industries around that. 3



### I think we ca n do the same thing. 4


### In 1968, somebody mentioned we hold more 5


### computing power in our pockets with our cell 6


### phones than existed in the world in 1968. That's 7


### a pretty ridiculous fact, and I think with that 8


### in mind, it is outrageous to suggest that we 9



### can't figure out how to shift away from an 10


### energy, from coal, that's built this country. So 11


### I salute coal for doing that. I salute the 12



### people that have worked on all of our behalf to 13


### power this country, but it's time to move on . We 14


### need to work with the peop le that are currently 15


### working in coal to find solutions and move away 16



### from that. 17


### Again, it's time. We have the 18


### responsibility to move away. We have the 19


### opportunity to innovate and create new and better 20


### jobs and more jobs and jobs that won't be 21


### poisoning our community and our world. 22

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### Thank you very much for the opportunity 1



### to be here. 2



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. McQueen. 3



### Mr. Gale. 4


### MR. GALE: Thank you for requesting 5


### comments on this important proposal. Bob Gale, 6



### G

- a

- l

- e. 7


### My name is Bob Gale, and I am the 8


### Ecologist and Public Lands Director with the 9



### Western North Carolina Alliance. Our 10


### organization advocates for healthy forests, clean 11



### air and water, and livable communities in the 23 12


### southern Appalachian Mountain counties of North 13



### Carolina. I am s peaking on behalf of our staff, 14



### board of directors, and our 3,500 members and 15



### supporters. 16


### Our organization supports EPA's proposed 17



### rule to cut carbon dioxide emissions from 18


### existing coal plants. Existing power plants are 19


### the largest source of the nation' s carbon dioxide 20


### emissions accounting for 38 percent, much of 21


### which stems from aging coal

- fired power plants. 22

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### In western North Carolina, the coal

- fired 1


### plant in the Asheville area alone emits carbon 2


### dioxide equivalent to that produced by a 3



### half

- a

- million cars on the road annually. 4


### Cutting emissions from existing power plants is 5


### the most immediate way the U.S. can alleviate 6


### climate disruption. A lot has been said about 7


### this today, and others will, no doubt, offer 8



### similar comments tomorrow. 9


### As an ecologi st, I'm concerned about the 10


### impacts of CO 2 

### on the natural environment. For 11


### example, there is a real possibility that the 12


### high

- elevation spruce fir forests of the southern 13


### Appalachian Mountains will completely disappear 14


### as lower elevation species favored b y a warming 15


### client replace them, and there are other impacts 16


### anticipated for other mountain forest habitats. 17



### I work with federal, state, and local 18


### agencies, as well as other organizations and 19


### citizens, to restore the natural ecosystems on 20


### our public lands that are increasingly under 21



### threat from non

- native invasive plants. These 22

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### plants are damaging a number of habitats which 1


### include rare, threatened, and endangered plant 2


### and animal species. Biologists are concerned 3


### about increasing levels of carbon dioxid e because 4


### this actually favors the growth of many 5



### non

- native invasive plants. Such plants already 6


### have a competitive advantage over native species. 7


### Besides lacking biological controls, they 8


### tolerate a wide variety of climatic conditions, 9


### including extrem es in temperature and moisture, 10


### two conditions that are currently being 11


### exacerbated by carbon dioxide increase. 12



### The increase in CO 2 

### is even causing 13


### impacts to native species that are problematic 14


### for humans. The chemical compound, which causes 15


### allergic re actions from plants such as poison 16


### ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac has been 17


### increasing on toxicity with warmer temperatures 18



### over the last 30 years and probably longer. 19



### A number of non

- native aquatic species or 20


### invasive species are spread by water bodies , and 21


### their spread has greatly increased from flooding 22

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### brought about by catastrophic hurricanes and 1


### storms. Such events are predicted by climate 2


### change models based on increased carbon dioxide. 3


### That these increased events directly cost 4



### billions of dollar s to the human environment is 5


### well known, but could they also be contributing 6



### harm to wildlife? 7


### Recently, individuals from a population 8


### of waterfowl feeding on three non

- native invasive 9


### water plants were observed to be unable to right 10



### themselves in water, walk upright on land, or 11


### even fly. Studies of their tissues revealed a 12


### toxin produced by a cyanobacteria that lives 13


### within the aquatic

- invasive plants. This toxin 14


### attacked the myelin within the brains of these 15



### waterfowl. Even worse, because the sick bi rds 16



### could no longer escape from predators, bald 17


### eagles fed on them, suffered similar illness, and 18


### passed the toxin on to eaglets within their 19



### nests. This unfortunate event had never been 20



### documented. 21



### The concern here is that such a scenario 22

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### and others lik e this could increase and add to 1


### all of the other impacts that unchecked levels of 2



### CO 2 

### is bringing. 3


### Please implement this proposal as quickly 4


### as possible not only for the human environment 5



### but for the natural environment, as well. 6



### Thank you. 7



### MR. THOMPSO N: Thank you, Mr. Gale. 8


### Are there any questions for either Mr. 9



### McQueen or Mr. Gale? 10


### [No audible response.] 11



### MR. McQUEEN: Thank you. 12



### MR. THOMPSON: Gentlemen, thank you both 13


### for your testimony. Thank you. 14


### [Applause.] 15



### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I w ould like 16


### to invite Carol Judy and June Dean to please come 17



### forward. 18



### [Pause.] 19



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, ladies, 20


### and thank you for coming. 21


### We would like to start with Ms. Judy, 22

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### please. 1


### MS. JUDY: Hi. I'm Carol Judy. That's 2



### J

- u

- d

- y. It is my last name. I live in the 3


### Clear Fork Valley in Tennessee. It boundaries 4


### Kentucky. Pine Mountain and Cumberland Mountain 5


### formed the valley that I live in, so that's two 6


### states, four counties, unincorporated 7



### communities. 8


### I want to thank EPA because it's very, 9


### very seldom we really feel like that government 10


### gets to hear our voice, so I appreciate this 11


### opportunity. 12



### I wanted to know what speakers were part 13



### of, so I tried to list some that were relevant. 14


### I am a participant in the Sierra Club. I am a 15



### member of t he Tennessee Clean Water Network, 16


### CWEET, which is Clean Water Expected in East 17



### Tennessee. I am also a member of Rural 18


### Development Leadership Network fellow. You can 19


### look it up, RDLN.org, online. And I am an active 20



### 10

- year participate with Mountain Justi ce, and I 21


### also participate with App Voices and Alliance for 22

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### Appalachia. 1


### In my community, we are historically the 2


### one area of our state where we have mountaintop 3


### removal coal mining, and what I've discovered is 4


### we also have a major

-- you know, there is a lot 5



### of the elements of colonialism that are still in 6


### the makeup of the culture of my community. 7


### I am also a root digger. So I get out in 8


### the mountains, and I dig roots. That's 9



### non

- timber forest products. These products 10


### support a $40

- billion

- a

- year indu stry. 11


### I am often confused by the contradictions 12



### that I see that are in where I live at, because 13


### WHO, the World Health Organization, part of the 14



### United Nations, tells me that the mountains 15



### produce 80 percent of the world's potable, 16



### taste

- able, drinkable, living waters. They 17


### produce 100 percent of it where I live. 18



### We are the headwaters for the Upper 19



### Cumberland Watershed, and that heads down to 20


### Nashville and goes into the Mississippi and then 21



### into the Gulf of Mexico. I would like water 22

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### healthy from its s ource, so the more we can do 1


### with our mountains, the better water is going 2



### down stream. 3



### I also know that where I am at is in 4


### Central Appalachia, and Central Appalachia has 5


### two contradictory identities nationally, and one 6


### is we are a temperate rainforest. We have over 7


### 1,000 medicinal and culinary herbs that help 8


### support a $40

- billion

- a

- year industry. We are 9


### also one of the four persistent areas of 10


### generational poverty. These are contradictions 11



### to me, because how can we have so much wealth and 12



### yet be cons idered generational poverty? 13


### I think that we need to do better jobs of 14


### keeping our mountains whole because coal, gas, 15


### and oil are extractive industries, and they also 16


### waste more water with fracking because they push 17


### that down in, so your water is at risk two 18


### different ways. Your watershed is at risk, and 19


### your waters that are being used in the mining are 20


### also being affected. 21



### So I think the EPA for us to have a 22

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### future for our kids, grandkids

-- and I am a 1



### great

- grandmother, and I want my kids to have 2



### work, so I think that the EPA has an opportunity 3


### to take strong leadership for the generations to 4



### come. 5



### I've heard the carbon emissions need to 6


### be reduced by 2030, and what I know is I probably 7


### won't be here, but I want my grandkids and great 8


### grandkids to hav e good work that keeps the 9


### mountains whole, because the one thing cities 10



### can't do is create air and water. Those are 11


### created by the mountains. We need to become 12


### rural and urban together again. 13


### Cities can deliver water. They can try 14


### to clean it up and p rotect and try to clean up 15


### air. The EPA should be the agency that takes 16


### strong leadership in this, from my perspective, 17



### because we are rural and urban, not or. 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Judy. 20



### Ms. Dean. 21


### MS. DEEN: Hi. My name is June De en, 22

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### J

- u

- n

- e, D

- e

- e

- n. I am the Senior VP of Public 1


### Policy and Health Promotion for the American Lung 2


### Association in Georgia, North Carolina, and South 3


### Carolina. I want to thank you for providing an 4


### opportunity for me to speak today. 5



### As many of you know, the Lung 6


### Association's mission is to improve lung health 7


### and prevent lung disease. The American Lung 8


### Association believes we need strong carbon 9



### standards to protect the lung health of everyone, 10


### especially those who suffer from lung disease. 11



### Carbon pollu tion leads to warmer 12


### temperatures that can enhance the conditions for 13


### harmful air pollutants, including ozone and 14


### particle pollution. Scientists warn that climate 15


### change is likely to increase the risk of 16


### unhealthy air in large parts of the United 17



### States, leading to more unhealthy air days than 18



### we would otherwise have. 19


### More pollution means more childhood 20


### asthma attacks and complications for those with 21


### lung disease, including increased risk of 22

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### premature death. 1


### Air pollution also affects people with 2



### cardi ovascular diseases, diabetics, and 3



### low

- income families. Children growing up where 4


### ozone levels are high may risk having lung 5



### diseases later in life. 6



### Out West, we already see the effects of 7


### devastating drought from the changes in weather 8



### patterns and heat . The drought threatens human 9


### health in many ways. Wildfires and dust storms 10


### blow fine particles that people inhale deep in 11


### their lungs, triggering asthma attacks and heart 12



### attacks. 13


### People do their best to prepare for these 14



### events and to protect themsel ves, but we really 15


### need to prevent the problems in the first place 16


### by reducing the carbon pollution that is changing 17



### the Earth's climate. 18


### We are committed to fighting carbon 19


### pollution because it helps us save lives and 20


### improve lung health. If we follow t he steps 21


### outlined in the Clean Power plan, we can prevent 22

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### up to 4,100 deaths in 2020, and more each year 1


### after that, avoiding up to 6,600 premature deaths 2


### in 2030 when all the steps are in place. We can 3


### prevent up to 100,000 childhood asthma attacks in 4



### 20 20, rising to prevent 150,000 attacks, 10 years 5



### later. 6



### We need to have a strong Clean Power Plan 7


### in place to cut carbon pollution and lessen the 8



### burdens on the health of millions of Americans. 9


### We urge EPA to adopt standards that will ensure 10



### we do as much as we can to fight these threats 11


### and protect public health. 12



### Thank you. 13



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Dean. 14


### Are there any questions for Ms. Judy or 15



### Ms. Dean? 16


### [No audible response.] 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Ladies, thank you again 18


### for your testimony. Thank you very much. 19


### [Applause.] 20



### [Pause.] 21



### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 22

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### to invite Rustina Mullins and Daniel Mullins to 1



### please come forward. 2



### [Pause.] 3



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon. 4



### MS. MULLINS: Good afternoon. 5



### MR. THOMPSON: I thought there was o ne 6


### more with you. Okay. 7


### If you would, just state your name and 8


### spell it for the court reporter, and then begin 9


### your testimony. 10


### MS. MULLINS: My name is Rustina Mullins, 11



### R

- u

- s

- t

- i

- n

- a, M

- u

- l

- l

- i

- n

- s. 12


### Coal mining has been a part of our family 13



### for several generations. My husband was the 14


### fourth generation in his family to mine coal in 15


### the underground coal mines of Appalachia, but for 16


### all the paychecks and benefits, coal mining has 17


### come at a greater cost to our family. 18


### The health impacts that are being tie d to 19


### coal extraction forced us to uproot our children 20


### from our ancestral home in Virginia. I watched 21


### the spring which was our family's water source 22

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### for four generations turn orange after a coal 1


### company used explosives to blast off the mountain 2



### above us in order to extract the coal. The 3


### acidic water laden with heavy metals now joins 4


### the drainages of a 100

- year legacy of coal 5


### extraction, both surface and underground, which 6


### comprises the watershed of the local municipal 7



### water supply. 8



### I am not a scientist, b ut I am a mother, 9


### and this water is pumped into homes throughout 10


### the county. It is drank by nursing mothers and 11



### mixed in the bottles of formula for newborn 12


### babies. Despite what the industry says, coal 13


### extraction has not been kind to the people of 14



### Appalac hia. Too many of our friends and family, 15


### both young and old, are getting sick with cancer 16



### and other diseases. Our children need a better 17



### future. 18


### I believe the Clean Power Plan will help 19


### to reduce the negative health effects, health 20


### impacts affecting the people of Appalachia by 21


### reducing the demand for coal that is being 22

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### extracted from the mountains. I see the Clean 1


### Power Plan as a way of progressing Appalachia 2



### into a better future, one of economic 3


### diversification with job opportunities for coal 4



### miners in both energy efficiency and renewable 5


### energies. 6


### However, in order for this plan to work, 7


### we must put energy efficiency in top priority. 8


### Energy efficiency can reduce our carbon emissions 9


### by decreasing the demand for electricity, in turn 10


### lessoning the amou nt of coal being burned at 11


### power plants, thereby saving what natural 12



### resources we have left, such as the diverse 13


### rainforests of the Appalachian Mountains, and 14


### helping improve the health of the people of 15


### Appalachia. 16


### Energy efficiency will create jobs acros s 17


### the nation. We need to start thinking of future 18


### generations and what they need. The idea of 19


### putting things off until tomorrow has come to an 20


### end because our children, grandchildren, 21



### great

- grandchildren are more important than our 22

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### wants of today. 1



### The C lean Power Plan must be a promise of 2


### clean water, clean air, and innovative job 3


### opportunities for future generations. 4



### Thank you. 5


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Mullins. 6


### [Applause.] 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. And your name 8



### is? 9


### DANIEL MULLINS: My name is Daniel 10


### Mullins. I am 12 years old, and I am in seventh 11



### grade. 12


### MR. THOMPSON: Daniel, spell your name 13



### for us. 14



### DANIEL MULLINS: D

- a

- n

- i

- e

- l, 15



### M

- u

- l

- l

- i

- n

- s. 16


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, sir. 17



### DANIEL MULLINS: There was a day I went 18


### exploring up in the woods behind my house in 19


### Clintwood. I came upon the old family spring, 20


### and it was all orange. I asked my dad what the 21


### orange was. He said it was sulfur and iron. Dad 22

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### said they mountaintop

- removed above our home 1



### before I was born to get to the coal, and afte r 2


### the first blast, the spring became acidic and 3


### turned orange. He said it used to be where our 4


### family got its water until the mining started. 5


### Since then, I have learned there are many 6


### more springs impacted like this. I have learned 7


### that according to the EPA, over 2,000 miles of 8


### streams have been buried and permanently polluted 9


### when coal companies destroyed over 500 mountains 10



### to get to the coal. 11


### I learned that runoff from strip mines, 12


### abandoned underground mines, and even coal sludge 13


### dumps from coal tipp les all make its way into our 14


### rivers, lakes, and including the Flannagan 15


### Reservoir where the people get their water in 16


### Dickenson County. 17


### Because of all the mining, Mom and Dad 18


### decided to move us away from our home. They were 19


### afraid it was not safe anymor e. They said people 20


### in our county were getting sick a lot. Even my 21



### cousin

-- 22

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### [Time clock sounds.] 1



### MR. THOMPSON: Please continue, Daniel. 2


### DANIEL MULLINS: Even my cousin who got 3



### cancer when he was 5 and had to go to St. Jude's. 4


### If we want Appalachia to be a safe place 5


### to live, we need to start being smarter as a 6


### nation about how we use energy. It's not just 7


### about making Appalachia a safer place, either. 8


### It is anywhere fossil fuels are extracted and 9



### burned where children who live in these areas 10



### have a higher chance of getting sick. 11


### I have seen natural gas wells in 12


### Appalachia too. I've seen the big trucks hauling 13


### poisoned water everywhere, and even in 14


### Pennsylvania where we visited this summer. 15


### The world does not need any more fossil 16



### fuels. We need to life more sustainably, using 17


### less energy and developing more ways to create 18



### clean energy. 19


### We can help this world instead of harming 20


### it. We can start now by realizing how much we 21


### are wasting every second of every day. I just 22

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### want to see a future where the water is clean to 1



### drink and our air is clear to breathe and we 2


### still have mountains to play on. 3



### We kids need this Clean Power Plan. We 4


### need to limit carbon emissions that are warming 5


### the whole planet and to protect places like our 6


### home from being po lluted and destroyed. 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Daniel. 8



### DANIEL MULLINS: You're welcome. 9


### [Applause.] 10



### MR. THOMPSON: How old are you, and what 11


### grade are you in, Daniel? 12


### DANIEL MULLINS: How old am I going to 13



### be? 14



### MR. THOMPSON: How old are you now? 15



### DA NIEL MULLINS: I'm 12 right now. 16



### MR. THOMPSON: Twelve. And what grade 17


### are you in? 18



### DANIEL MULLINS: I'm in seventh. 19


### MR. THOMPSON: Is Alexandria your sister? 20



### DANIEL MULLINS: Yes. 21


### MR. THOMPSON: You guys both did an 22

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### awesome job today. Thank you for your testimony. 1



### DANIEL MULLINS: Thank you. 2



### MR. THOMPSON: And thank you, Mom. 3



### MS. MULLINS: Thank you. 4


### MR. THOMPSON: Any questions? 5


### [No audible response.] 6


### MR. THOMPSON: Again, thank you very 7



### much. 8



### MS. MULLINS: Thank you. 9



### DANIEL MULLINS: You're welcome. 10


### [Applause.] 11



### MR. THOMPSON: At this time, I would like 12


### to ask Elizabeth Barger, if that's B

- a

- r

- g

- e

- r, 13



### and Jeannie

-- I can't tell if this is

-- 14



### MS. CERULEAN: Cerulean. 15



### MR. THOMPSON: That's it. 16



### [Pause.] 17



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, ladie s. 18


### Good afternoon to the both of you. We are going 19



### to start with

-- and that is B

- a

- r

- g

- e

- r, Barger; 20



### is that correct? 21



### MS. BARGER: Barger. Yeah, Barger. 22

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### MR. THOMPSON: Yes, ma'am. Okay, we'd 1


### like to start with you. 2



### MS. BARGER: Okay. 3



### MR. THOMPSON: Please state and spell 4



### your name for the court reporter, and then you 5


### can begin your testimony. 6


### MS. BARGER: All right. My name is 7


### Elizabeth Barger, B

- a

- r

- g

- e

- r, and I am from 8


### Summertown, Tennessee, and I really appreciate 9


### being able to talk to you all

. 10


### I do have more information to back up 11


### some of the things that I am going to say, but it 12



### would take more than 5 minutes to do all that, so 13


### we will send that on to you. 14



### MR. THOMPSON: Excellent. 15


### MS. BARGER: I just have to say that 16


### clean coal is a dirty joke, and it's second only 17


### in pollution to nuclear and natural gas. And I 18


### say this because of some of the things that I 19


### will send to you later, but I wanted to add a 20



### little art to this situation. 21


### I have been writing sonnets, and so I 22

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### have one on frackin g. It's called "No Frack." 1


### It says, "Children are crying at the death of 2


### trees. The creek in the valley is not singing. 3



### While we work for a frack

- free Tennessee or 4


### suffer sorrow, silence is bringing. Under the 5


### curse of interesting times, we laugh at t he old 6


### wisdom we forgot and hear what he struggle is all 7


### for naught. We can't find reason or difficult 8


### rhymes. I understand about lighter than air. 9


### The concept is clear enough for you to see, but 10



### when we cry danger, we don't show care. When 11


### blowing sha le to set dinosaurs free, why the need 12


### to destroy our Mother? It's not as if we can get 13



### another." 14


### So the other thing that has me very upset 15


### is the fact that we are bringing tar sands mining 16


### into the United States. We have already seen the 17



### terrible toll that it's taken in Alberta, Canada, 18


### and we know that taking this tar sands, this 19



### bitumen out of the Earth will add to carbon 20


### terribly. And we also know that fracking adds to 21



### methane in the air. 22

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### So the first people lived cooperatively, 1



### and they used to ga ther all their fat together 2


### for winter and gathered it in the middle of the 3


### village. If somebody came and stole it, they 4



### were called a "fat taker." So this is about tar 5


### sands mining. 6


### "A toxic pulsing worm diseased too long 7



### pushes hot death through the l iving Heartland. 8


### The guardian soul cries out, "This is wrong," and 9


### struggles to stop the destructive hand. Crushed 10


### underbidding of violent greed, sacred Earth 11


### battered, bleeds an oil puss. What is this 12


### monster? What is the need? Killing the green 13



### for pottage is not just. Cannot drink bitumen. 14


### Can't eat. Money is not food. Safety is a joke. 15


### Promised jobs, that's a lie. Families are 16


### choking. The water is no good. To enrich a few, 17


### so many must die. Corrupt and careless, the 18


### rapers must fail. Onl y the people aroused can 19


### prevail." 20



### And that's what we need. We need to 21


### really un that we can stop this. Nuclear is one 22

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### of the dirtiest energies that we can have. It 1


### kills from the beginning to the end. The 2


### fracking of the aquifers in the West is poiso ning 3


### those aquifers to get uranium. Mining for 4


### uranium, the tailings, I have seen the children 5


### playing on the tailings, and I know that the 6


### incidence of leukemia and other cancers is very 7


### high in the Navajo Nation, some of the first 8



### people. 9



### And then we b ring that to use coal and 10


### natural gas to refine the uranium, which is much 11


### more energy than the uranium produces, and then 12


### with the waste, we don't have any place to put 13


### it. And it lasts for a billion years. So it's 14


### ridiculous to call nuclear energy clea n. 15



### Thank you very much. 16



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Barger. 17



### Please. 18


### MS. CERULEAN: My name is Jeannie 19



### Cerulean, J

- e

- a

- n

- n

- i

- e, C

- e

- r

- u

- l

- e

- a

- n. 20


### I just want to talk about the climate for 21



### innovation that the Environmental Protection 22

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### Agency could creat e, and I believe that this is a 1


### window of opportunity for the Environmental 2


### Protection Agency to establish what your agency 3


### is really going to be capable of doing in the 4



### future. 5


### Even though there's this idea of just 6


### filtering some of the pollution, you kn ow, like 7


### let's put a filter on that pollution of these 8


### plants, I know that what you are hearing is a lot 9


### of people saying, "Well, it's more than just 10


### filtering some pollution." We actually want to 11



### create a channel, and we want you to help create 12



### this chan nel that innovation can just flow out 13


### and begin to give us some of the things that we 14



### actually need. 15



### And a lot of these solution side 16


### activities that people could do in our country, 17


### this is something that by creating a really solid 18



### standard and a really g reat template, that when 19


### states come together or regions and they take a 20



### look at your rule and they take a look at the 21


### template you are suggesting and they are like, 22

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### "Oh. Well, this is a pretty good template, let's 1


### follow it," they are going to decide bas ed on 2


### your guide what to do. They are looking to you 3


### for leadership, and so this is a great 4


### opportunity for you to really lead. I think that 5


### most people in the Environmental Protection 6


### Agency probably went to college as environmental 7



### scientists, so I fee l like maybe we are telling 8


### you stuff that you already know in some cases. 9


### So I just want you to think about the 10


### future of the Environmental Protection Agency and 11


### what you will permit, because that's what you do. 12


### You write permits for things to happen. So will 13


### you permit us to have health? Will you permit us 14


### to have innovation through the strength of what 15


### you are going to create? And I hope that it will 16


### be more than you've already written and that you 17



### will take our comments into consideration. 18



### I want you to promise me that you will 19


### not permit caps on renewables. All these 20


### different states have a cap on renewables. So we 21


### just like turn and face the person who is putting 22

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### solar on their business or solar on their house, 1



### and they are told, "Oh, I'm sorry . We've reached 2


### the 5 percent that we've put aside for 3


### renewables." So we need to get rid of the caps 4


### and hope that will be part of your template to 5


### just have no caps on renewables. 6


### And then would you also promise me that 7


### you will not permit fracking? Because it 8



### pollutes our water, and we need that water to 9



### drink. 10


### And I would like for you also to not 11


### permit any new nuclear to go online and take all 12



### the money that was budgeted to complete these 13


### plants and put that exact amount of money into 14


### taking apart the plants, because it costs a whole 15


### lot to decommission a plant, so let's just go for 16



### that now. No new nukes. No new nukes. Like 17


### President Reagan knew that, and everybody in 18



### Japan knows that, and everybody on our West Coast 19



### knows that. And we don't w ant any more. 20


### So please do not permit mountaintop 21


### removal or surface mining. That is a whole lot 22

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### of stuff for you not to permit, but if you look 1


### at the faces, like Elizabeth was talking about, 2



### look at the faces of Native Americans who have no 3



### elders beca use they're all gone. At 45 years 4



### old, there's no one left in the tribe because 5


### they are mining uranium, and they are dying. 6



### We love St. Jude's. They have done an 7


### amazing thing, but they would really like it if 8


### we would stop all of the nuclear pollutio n that 9


### is giving children leukemia in this country, and 10


### that is proven. Children who live within 5 miles 11


### of a nuclear pollution are more likely to have 12


### leukemia. So it's cool that St. Luke's figured 13


### out how to save their lives, but yeah. 14


### So, you know, i f you would also face the 15


### people in Appalachia that are being dumped on, 16


### they are dumping our forests into our water. 17


### They are destroying this culture, the sky, the 18


### children, and so don't dump on those people, 19



### either. 20


### So what would you permit? What I wo uld 21


### like for you to permit is that this solution 22

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### side, this flow, that you could help put into 1


### this template. 2



### [Time clock sounds.] 3


### MS. CERULEAN: Could I just say my list 4


### really quickly? 5



### MR. THOMPSON: Sure. 6



### MS. CERULEAN: Okay. Number one, 7



### efficient and trying to like come up with 8


### programs to reward states or regions that do 9


### these efficiency measures, so they would get the 10


### packages for helping, for construction, and we 11


### know that we can use passive solar and geothermal 12



### construction, and that will save on the energy 13



### that we need. 14



### Also, what Canada had tried that has 15


### worked really well is Sun Comes Up Solar. So it 16



### is 3.5 cents a kilowatt

- hour, and it is just 17


### putting solar without batteries on everything, 18


### anything and everything, and it cuts the baseline 19


### in half, because every day that all that solar 20


### runs with no batteries will effectively cut the 21



### baseline in half. 22

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### And then the other thing is there's a lot 1



### of innovation in universities, and I'm a 2


### professor at a university. I am seeing a lot of 3


### great inn ovation through research, and so we 4


### could do some public

- private partnerships in 5


### which we take these good ideas and this research 6


### and we bring it into reality. 7


### One of those examples is taking river 8


### currents and turning that into currents of 9


### electricity. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. Cerulean. 12


### Are there any questions for either Ms. 13



### Barger or Ms. Cerulean? 14


### MR. HUTSON: I just wanted to ask where 15


### you are from because you didn't

-- 16



### MS. CERULEAN: I am from Chattanooga, 17



### Tennessee, and I teach at the University of 18



### Tennessee at Chattanooga. 19



### MR. HUTSON: Okay. Thank you very much. 20


### MR. THOMPSON: All right. Well, ladies, 21


### thank you both for your testimony. Thank you 22

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### very much. 1


### [Applause.] 2



### MR. THOMPSON: I would like to at this 3


### time invite Taylo r Allred and Patti Blevins. 4



### [Pause.] 5



### MR. THOMPSON: Good afternoon, folks. 6



### MR. ALLRED: Good afternoon. 7


### MR. THOMPSON: Thanks for coming. 8


### MR. ALLRED: Thank you for having us. My 9


### name is Taylor Allred. That is T

- a

- y

- l

- o

- r, 10



### A

- l

- l

- r

- e

- d. I am here sp eaking on behalf of the 11


### Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, or SACE. 12


### SACE appreciates this opportunity to 13


### provide oral comments to the EPA on the proposed 14


### Clean Power Plan. Today, my comments will focus 15


### on energy efficiency. 16


### I would like to start by say ing that SACE 17


### appreciates the EPA's use of energy efficiency as 18


### a building block in the proposed rule. SACE 19



### applauds the EPA's acknowledgement that energy 20


### efficiency is an abundant resource that can be 21


### used to reduce carbon emissions while also saving 22

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### peo ple money on their utility bills. 1


### SACE also appreciates that the EPA has 2



### proposed state

- level efficiency goals that will 3


### significantly increase the level of energy 4


### efficiency in the Southeast. 5


### The proposed cumulative goals for 6



### southeastern states will sa ve approximately 10 7


### percent of retail electric sales by 2029. SACE 8


### believes that these goals are not only achievable 9


### but also fairly conservative compared to the 10


### region's full energy efficiency potential. 11


### SACE believes that maximizing energy 12


### efficiency i mpacts is essential for our nation 13


### and particularly for southeastern states for 14



### several reasons. 15



### First, the United States as a whole 16


### currently fails to lead in energy efficiency. In 17


### a recent Energy Efficiency Scorecard published by 18



### the American Council for an Energy

- Efficient 19


### Economy, or ACEEE, the U.S. is ranked 13th out of 20


### the 16 largest economies. The scorecard 21


### considers energy

- efficiency policies and programs 22

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### covering several different categories, including 1


### buildings, industry and transportation, an d data 2



### on overall energy use. 3


### Our country and our region cannot afford 4


### to fall behind on energy efficiency. Among the 5


### nations with higher energy

- efficiency rankings in 6


### the U.S. are Germany, China, India, and South 7


### Korea, all of which enjoy a competitive advantage 8


### by being able to produce goods and services using 9



### less energy. 10



### Moreover, southeastern states have lagged 11


### behind in energy efficiency in the U.S. In 12



### ACEEE's state

- level Energy Efficiency Scorecard, 13


### not a single southeastern state is ranked in th e 14



### top 30. 15



### Consumers in the Southeast also have some 16


### of the highest electricity bills in the country. 17


### Recent data from the Energy Information 18



### Administration indicates that 8 out of the 15 19


### states with the highest average monthly 20


### electricity bills are in th e Southeast. 21


### High electricity bills combined with low 22

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### median incomes result in a higher than average 1



### financial burden for southeastern families, and 2



### U.S. Census data shows that southeastern states 3


### make up 9 out of the 15 states with the lowest 4



### median inco mes. 5


### It is SACE's understanding that 6



### energy

- efficiency measures that have been put 7


### into place after the proposed rule was released 8


### may count toward the initial annual goals. 9


### SACE applauds the EPA for allowing early 10


### action on energy efficiency to count to ward the 11



### goals, and SACE has encouraged southeastern 12


### utilities to consider this factor as they make 13


### decisions about energy efficiency investments 14



### today. 15


### Energy efficiency will also help the 16


### economy in several ways. To begin with, energy 17


### efficiency create s a lot of jobs. A study by 18


### Southface, a Georgia

- based organization focused 19


### on green building services, they found that over 20


### 4,100 Georgians were employed full

- time in the 21



### energy

- efficiency and building sciences sector in 22

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### 2013. 1


### In addition to direct job creation, 2


### energy efficiency puts more money in consumers' 3


### pockets, which drives economic growth and further 4


### job creation. 5


### Lower utility bills also position local 6


### businesses to be more profitable and create even 7


### more jobs. 8



### SACE is also aware of the EPA's request 9


### for comments on several other issues, including 10


### increasing the states' savings targets to 2 11


### percent per year to reflect the impact of energy

12


### efficiency strategies outside of the utilities 13


### sphere, such as building efficiency codes and 14


### state applian ce standards. 15


### SACE looks forward to commenting on this 16


### and other topics in the coming weeks. Thank you 17


### for your time. 18



### MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Allred. 19


### Please state your name and spell it for 20



### the court reporter. 21


### MS. BLEVINS: My name is Patti, 22

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### P

- a

- t

- t

- i, Blevins, B

- l

- e

- v

- i

- n

- s. 1



### Hi. I am with Johns Manville in Winder, 2


### Georgia. I am the Health Safety Environment 3


### Manager, and we've been making fiberglass 4



### insulation since 1969. It is about an hour 5



### northeast of here. 6


### Johns Manville as a corporation is part 7



### of the North American Insulation Manufacturers 8


### Association, NAIMA, and we strongly agree with 9



### EPA that the end

- use energy

- efficiency 10


### enhancements can substantially reduce electricity 11


### usage and the emissions generated to provide that 12


### electricity. 13



### Regardless of the amount of greenhouse 14


### gas emissions to be reduced by EPA Section 15



### 111(d), energy enhancements can be a way to 16



### achieve immediate and cost

- effective emissions 17


### reductions in the utility sector. 18


### Because 40 percent of all energy is used 19



### in heat ing and cooling homes and buildings, there 20


### are many opportunities for energy savings and the 21


### corresponding emissions reductions. Energy 22

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### efficiency also supports growth, what I said 1



### before. 2


### The American Council for Energy

- Efficient 3



### Economy recently comple ted a study of the 4



### energy

- efficiency savings that can be achieved in 5



### each state, the cost and the benefits of such 6


### investments and the policies and the impact of 7


### these efficiency investments on employment and 8



### grow state product. 9


### And reducing emissions in the utilities 10


### sector has several important co

- benefits, 11


### including improvements to grid reliability and 12


### public health. 13


### Johns Manville is working with others in 14


### our industry to update a 2003 Harvard Study that 15


### quantified the public health improvements from 16


### retrofitting all under

- insulated homes in the 17



### U.S. to current model energy codes. The 18


### researchers will be investigating both the 19


### mortality and morbidity improvements that 20


### accompany utility emissions reductions. 21


### The results of the update will be 22

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### availabl e in time to include in our formal 1



### comments, written comments to EPA. 2


### While we agree with including 3



### energy

- efficiency enhancements as a method to 4



### achieve emissions reductions, we do have several 5


### suggestions that we would like to make. 6


### First, we would sug gest that the proposal 7


### encourage early emissions reductions through 8



### early deployment of end

- use energy

- efficiency 9


### enhancements. The proposal, as written, really 10


### focuses on the compliance period between 2020 and 11


### 2030 and does not adequately credit early ac tion 12



### from early enhancement, energy

- efficient projects 13


### or even renewable energy projects. 14



### Second, we would suggest that 15



### energy

- efficiency enhancements can last well 16


### longer than 10 years. For example, passive 17


### energy efficiency improvements to homes and 18



### bu ilding envelopes, like insulation or air 19


### ceiling, will last for the life of the building 20



### and with little or no maintenance. This is in 21


### contrast to other more active improvements like 22

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### HVAC refrigeration equipment and things like 1



### that. 2


### Third, we would sugg est advanced energy 3


### codes in the energy

- efficiency building block as 4


### an important way to achieve energy savings. 5


### Lastly, we would like to remove any 6


### ambiguity and specifically refer to insulation as 7


### a method to achieve energy efficiency, especially 8



### in bui ldings. 9


### We estimate that all insulation currently 10


### in place in homes and building in the U.S. 11



### reduces the amount of CO 2 

### emissions by 780 million 12


### tons per year. This is the equivalent to over 13



### 150 coal

- fired power plants or the electricity 14



### used by over 90 m illion homes in 1 year. 15


### Thanks very much for this opportunity. 16



### MR. THOMPSON: And thank you. 17


### Are there any questions? 18


### MR. HUTSON: My question is just, Could 19


### you say again the company that you represent? 20



### MS. BLEVINS: Johns Manville. 21



### MR. HUTSON: Man ville Johns. Okay. 22

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### MS. BLEVINS: The "s" is with the 1



### "Johns." 2


### MS. MILLER: I have a question for Mr. 3


### Allred, and I hope I am not putting you on the 4


### spot by asking this. But somebody earlier today 5


### was talking about the energy

- efficiency goals and 6



### how th ey felt like it shouldn't be a national 7


### standard, it should very state by state. Do you 8



### have any thoughts on that? 9


### MR. ALLRED: As far as the flexibility 10


### built into the goal, speaking on my own behalf 11


### without kind of referencing an official SACE 12


### policy, I would say that it's helpful to build a 13


### broad consensus by building in a degree of 14


### flexibility for states to meet the goals. I 15


### think as a starting point, it's helpful for 16


### getting initial results now. 17


### MR. THOMPSON: Well, again, thank you 18



### both for your t estimony here. Thank you very 19


### much for your testimony. 20



### MR. ALLRED: Thank you. 21



### MR. THOMPSON: Folks, at this time, I 22

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### think we are going to break for dinner. We are 1


### going to return to Room A at 6:20. Thank you. 2



### [Dinner recess taken from 5:20 to 6:20 3



### p .m.] 4


### MS. TONEY: Good evening, everyone. 5


### Thank you for joining us for this evening's 6


### session, and we appreciate your patience. My 7



### name is Heather McTeer Toney. I am the Regional 8


### Administrator for Region 4 of the Environmental 9


### Protection Agency here in the Southeast Region, 10


### and it is certainly our pleasure to have you here 11


### at our Public Hearing this evening. 12


### Joining me on the panel this evening are 13


### Julia Miller, who is an energy efficiency expert 14



### for the Office of Air and Radiation out of 15


### Washington, D. C., and Carol Kemk er, who is our 16


### Region 4 Air and Pesticides Toxics Management 17


### Division Deputy Director. Thank you, ladies, for 18


### joining me on the panel today. 19


### We are here today to listen to your 20



### comments on two proposed rules to reduce carbon 21


### pollution f rom power plants that EPA announced in 22

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### June of this year. 1


### Now, power plants, just as a little 2


### background information for you, again, on our 3



### purpose, power plants are the largest source of 4


### carbon pollution in the U.S. accounting for 5


### roughly a third of all domestic greenhouse gas 6



### emissions. 7


### The first rule is EPA's Proposed Clean 8


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 9


### proposal consists of two main parts: the 10



### state

- specific goals to lower carbon pollution 11


### from the power plants and guidelines to states 12


### to develop their plans for meeting the goals. 13


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 14


### determining how to meet their goals, and states 15


### will choose what goes into their plans that shows 16


### how they will achieve the needed goals by 2030. 17



### The second rule is E PA's proposed rule to 18



### address the Carbon Dioxide Emissions from 19



### Modified and Reconstructed Power Plants. This 20


### rule would set emissions limits for two groups of 21


### power plants, those that make physical or 22

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### operational changes that increase the plant's 1



### maximum achievable hourly rate of emissions and 2



### those that replace components to such an extent 3



### that the new components exceed 50 percent of the 4


### capital cost of an entirely new comparable 5


### facility. 6


### Now, if you would like more details on 7


### either of these plans and programs, please visit 8


### our registration and materials table that is 9


### located right outside of the doors, and we have 10


### materials that are available for you. 11


### Let me also take this time to remind you 12


### that if you have not registered as the EPA 13


### registration des k, please make sure that you stop 14


### at the registration desk and sign your name, as 15


### we want to make sure that we are accounting for 16


### everyone who has joined us here today. 17


### Now, this is one of four Public Hearings 18


### that's taking place across the nation. There are 19


### also Public Hearings that are taking place in 20


### Washington, D.C.; Denver, Colorado; and 21


### Pittsburgh. We are very, very excited and really 22

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### appreciate you taking out the time, especially 1


### this evening, to come in and share your comments. 2



### All of the commen ts are being transcribed 3


### and will be a part of the record, so there are a 4


### few things that we would just like to run through 5


### very quickly with you as to how we are going to 6



### proceed. 7


### If you are a speaker, you were given a 8



### room letter, and the room letter wi ll go along 9


### with where you are to be speaking. This is Room 10


### A, and so you should have that letter "A" with 11


### your speaking assignment. This would be a good 12


### time to check and make sure that you are in the 13


### correct room, and if you are not, we won't hold 14



### it a gainst you if you have to leave and go into 15



### Room B. 16


### How we are going to proceed with the 17


### speakers will be, as follows. I am going to call 18


### the speakers up in pairs. When your name is 19



### called, please come to the table here at the 20



### front of the room. When I call on you to speak, 21


### please state your name, and spell it for the 22

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### court reporter. Your comments, again, are being 1



### transcribed and will be included in the record of 2



### comments for the proposed rule. 3


### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 4



### your comments, and we do have lights here to help 5


### you know how much time you have left to speak. 6


### When your light turns from green to yellow, that 7


### means that you have 1 minute left to speak. When 8


### it turns to from yellow to red, that means that 9


### your time to speak has end ed. If you have any 10


### additional comments that you have not made at 11


### that time, please make sure that you leave those 12



### comments with us because we do want them to be a 13



### part of the record; however, we do also want to 14


### make sure that we respect everyone's time an d 15


### that we get an opportunity to hear each person 16


### fairly. 17


### Again, we don't want you to feel like you 18


### don't have enough time to make all of your 19


### comments, but we are accepting written comments 20


### at the table that, again, is located right 21



### outside of the doors. So please, again, make 22

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### sure that you leave us your written comments, if 1


### you have brought those, or if there is something 2


### additional maybe that you would like to say, you 3


### can write those and leave those with us today, as 4



### well. 5


### Finally, we are here to list en today. We 6


### may have a clarifying question of you. If we 7


### have a clarifying question, it will not bite into 8


### your time. It is simply just to make sure that 9


### we are understanding what your statement is or 10


### maybe the name of an organization or something to 11



### t hat extent. 12



### We also ask that, out of respect for all 13


### of the speakers, when you are finished speaking, 14


### if you would, please stay at the table until the 15


### person has finished speaking, and then we will 16


### call the next pair of speakers up, as well. 17



### This has bee n a wonderful session, I will 18


### tell you, we've been hearing, and I know a lot of 19


### our panelists and a lot of the people who have 20


### been listening here today have had the pleasure 21


### of enjoying wonderful Southern hospitality, and 22

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### that everyone has been very respe ctful of all of 1


### the speakers. And I know that that will only 2


### continue this evening, and that we will have an 3


### opportunity to listen and hear everyone's 4


### comments fairly and equally. 5


### With that, I think we have gotten 6


### everything ready. We have our timer rea dy. We 7


### are scheduled to go until 8 p.m. tonight. We are 8


### going to try to make sure we get everybody's 9


### comments in, and so if we need to go a little 10


### past that, we will. But just so you know, we are 11


### scheduled to go to 8 p.m. this evening. 12



### If you have any questions, please feel 13


### free to see any of the staff at the registration 14


### desk. They will be able to help you, and if you 15


### need assistance in getting up the steps, we do 16


### have staff in the room that can assist you if you 17



### need that, as well. 18


### Again, thank you for taking out the time, 19


### and we are going to go ahead and get started with 20


### our first two speakers. Amy Adams and Hazel 21



### Adams. Amy and Hazel Adams, are you present? 22

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### [Pause.] 1


### MS. ADAMS: Thank you for allowing me the 2


### opportunity to speak with you this ev ening. My 3


### name is Amy Adams, A

- m

- y, A

- d

- a

- m

- s. I am here 4


### today from North Carolina with my daughter, 5


### Hazel. Hazel is here with me today because she 6


### suffers from asthma and has spent lots of time in 7


### and out of the hospital in the first 2 years of 8



### her lif e. 9


### Healthy air is critical for her growth 10


### and development. She is paying the price for 11


### power plants' unregulated carbon emissions. 12



### In North Carolina, we have 3 of the 50 13


### dirtiest power plants in the country. For her 14



### and millions of children like her a cross the 15



### country, carbon must be better regulated. 16


### Hazel, do you have something to say? 17



### Your four words? 18


### [No audible response.] 19



### MS. ADAMS: Hazel's words were "I need 20



### clean air." 21


### Carbon is not only affecting the health 22

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### of my family; it's also affecti ng my childhood 1


### home of eastern North Carolina by increased 2


### severe weather, more intense storms, and rising 3



### sea levels. 4


### I grew up the daughter of a sailboat 5


### captain along the shores of the Pamlico River in 6


### the Outer Banks of North Carolina. My parents' 7



### h ome has been flooded repeated times in the last 8


### 10 years. The water which used to occasionally 9


### overtop the bulkhead only during Nor'easters and 10


### hurricanes now routinely overtops. The changes 11


### in the intensity and frequency of flooding are 12


### directly tied to carbon pollution. Flooding and 13



### seawater intrusion from sea

- level rise and 14


### increasing storm surge threaten the North 15



### Carolina coast. 16


### Until recently, I worked for the 17


### Department of Environment and Natural Resources 18


### as the regional office supervisor for th e Surface 19



### Water Protection Section of the Division of Water 20


### Quality. While working for the department, I was 21


### involved with wetland and coastal permitting and 22

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### have seen firsthand the evidence of a changing 1



### coast. 2



### A subdivision in rural North Carolina I 3



### am familiar with was platted in the coast with 4



### the coastal and 404 lines marked in 2004. Since 5



### that time, this site ha s had to be remarked 6



### m ultiple times due to the progression of the 7



### wetland line inland. Several l ots now have a 8


### buildable footprint only ne ar the road setback
, 9



### several hundred feet from the water
, or some have 10


### no buildable footprint at all. 11


### In another subdivision, lots that perked 12


### but were never developed have seen their perk 13



### renewal s denied. T he lots are now too wet for 14


### traditional septic

. 15


### This story i s repeated throughout eastern 16



### North Carolina

. More dike and pumping permits 17


### are being issued just so farmers can farm the 18


### outer coastal plain . However, in North Carolina 19



### we deny sea

- level rise, choosing to legislate it 20



### away. 21



### Last month, I witnessed for the first 22

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### time the overwhelming destruction of mountaintop 1


### removal. I took this aerial flight as a learning 2


### trip as North Carolina has no extractive 3


### industry. Fracking, however, is beating down our 4



### door. 5



### But we have borne the cost of coa l 6



### leftovers. Coal ash storage and the 7



### contamination it leaves behind have sullied the 8


### Dan River from the third largest coal ash spill 9



### in the nation. Thirteen other communities across 10


### North Carolina are fighting to get basic 11


### safeguards at the remaining un lined coal ash 12


### pits. 13


### From blasting apart mountains to the 14


### transport of coal through our communities to the 15


### unsafe storage of coal ash and now the fracking 16


### industry thirsty for North Carolina resources, 17



### North Carolina is in the crosshairs, and the 18



### cries of her people are falling on deaf ears. 19


### Recent developments in North Carolina 20


### politics have seen the elimination of the 21



### Department of Environmental staff and funding, 22

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### slashing of environmental protections, exemptions 1


### for a multitude of regulations, and a 2



### pr o

- industry, business

- friendly takeover. North 3



### Carolina ' s Governor and Environmental Secretary 4


### question the legal authority of EPA to enact 5



### these carbon rules. 6



### North Carolina 's head

- in

- the

- sand 7


### leadership exemplifies why we need a strong 8



### federal rule. It is not only good science; it's 9


### a critical step in protecting North Carolinians
, 10



### not only from the effects of an unregulated 11



### carbon emission but from a decreasingly 12


### protective political will. 13


### I encourage the EPA to do everything 14


### within its power to streng then the proposed rules 15


### and fight back against industry naysayers and 16



### climate deniers. Set stronger standards. 17


### Promote energy efficiency and renewables as the 18



### gold standard for our country. 19



### North Carolina must rely on EPA to set 20



### strong enforceable stand ards. It cannot rely on 21



### its state government if the course continues. We 22

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### must rely on EPA. Our state will not protect us. 1



### T hank you. 2



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 3


### MS. ADAMS: Do you want to say you line? 4


### [No audible response.] 5



### MS. ADAMS: You still can't. 6



### MS. TONEY: Hazel, can you show us what 7


### your sign says? 8


### MS. ADAMS: Can you show your sign? 9


### MS. TONEY: Will you show us your sign? 10



### MS. ADAMS: Here we go. 11


### MS. TONEY: Thank you. That is a very 12


### nice sign, Hazel. Thank you. 13



### MS. ADAMS: Can you take your asthma 14



### inhaler? 15



### There we go. Thank you. 16



### MS. TONEY: Okay, thank you. 17


### MS. ADAMS: Good job. 18



### Our next speakers are Candee Henderson 19


### and Bert Schuster. If I have mispronounced your 20



### name, please correct me. I want to make sure 21


### that I get it correc t. 22

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### Ms. Henderson, did I say that correctly? 1



### Is it Candee? 2



### MS. HENDERSON: Candee. 3


### MS. TONEY: Okay, all right. 4


### MS. HENDERSON: It's just a little 5


### different spelling. 6



### MS. TONEY: So we will have Ms. Henderson 7



### first, and then Mr. Schuster will follow. 8


### If you will please spell your name for 9



### the court reporter. 10


### MS. HENDERSON: My name is Candee, 11



### C

- a

- n

- d

- e

- e, Henderson, H

- e

- n

- d

- e

- r

- s

- o

- n. 12


### Good evening. Thank you for coming to 13


### Atlanta from Washington. I am Candee Henderson. 14



### My husband Bob and I have also come some 15



### distance. We live in the southwest corner of 16


### Georgia, more than 200 miles from here. 17


### We have the privilege of living in a 18


### rural area of southwest Georgia. Our yard is 19


### flush with grass and trees. Early in the 20


### morning, the air is fresh. The lawn is sparkling 21


### with dew. Is it any wonder that so many people 22

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### cannot believe that our precious life support 1


### system is endangered? 2


### Imperceptible to our limited senses, the 3


### amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere of the 4


### entire planet continues to rise far beyond the 5


### ideal 350 parts per million. Around the world, 6


### hundreds of millions of people are suffering from 7



### the effects of sea

- level rise and floods and 8


### droughts and fires that are exacerbated, if not 9


### directly caused by this rise in carbon dioxi de. 10


### Some Americans might say, "There have 11


### always been people living on the edge. What can 12



### I do, anyway?" I say we are our brother's 13


### keeper. We are the leaders in this world. It is 14


### our duty and our testimony to do everything in 15



### our power to reverse the causes of global 16


### warming. 17



### That gets to why you are here today. We 18


### applaud the Clean Power Plan that will put limits 19



### on the amount of carbon dioxide that coal

- fired 20


### electric power plants can spew into the air, 21


### especially since we Georgians get 35 percent of 22

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### our electricity from the burning of coal, and we 1


### have the dubious distinction of having the 2



### coal

- fired plant that is number one in emissions 3


### in the USA. The Clean Power Plan is especially 4


### important for us. 5


### But the Clean Power Plan is a single step 6



### in the journey of a thousand miles that will take 7


### us to a place of sustainable energy. I predict 8


### that this modest proposal of 30 percent carbon 9


### reduction by 2030 will be met and surpass long 10


### before the due date. Solar and wind power 11


### industries are growing like the cell phone 12


### technology at the beginning of this century. 13


### Georgia's sun index is higher than most states 14


### and significantly higher than Germany, where 1 15


### day recently 74 percent of the nation's 16


### electricity came from solar installations and 17



### wind turbi nes. 18


### Georgia could do this. Power companies 19


### could be incentivized to encourage efficiency and 20


### renewable sources of electricity. Every public 21


### building could have a south

- facing roof covered 22

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### in solar panels, every school, every courthouse, 1



### every church, e very library, all producing 2


### electricity. 3


### In 1931, not long before he died, the 4


### inventor Thomas Edison told his friends, Henry 5


### Ford and Harvey Firestone. Thomas Edison said, 6



### "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. 7



### What a source of power! I hope w e don't have to 8



### wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle 9


### that." Imagine if we had heeded Thomas Edison in 10


### the 1930s. The fossil fuel industry might have 11


### turned its entrepreneurial skills to hawking 12


### sunshine and wind, and this hearing would be 13



### nec essary. 14



### But unfortunately, that's not how the 15



### story unfolded. About 200 years ago when the 16


### connection between electricity and magnetism was 17


### discovered, entrepreneurs jumped at the 18


### opportunity to put motors to work for mankind. 19


### In the 19th century, it wa s a miracle of sorts. 20


### We began digging up more and more of the fossil 21



### carbon. There seemed to be an endless supply. 22

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### The world was transformed. People's lives were 1



### forever changed. No one knew 200 years ago that 2


### the coal had formed from plant material living in 3



### a much different climate, a much different Earth 4


### than we have today. No one knew that returning 5


### that fossil carbon to the Earth's atmosphere 6



### would also return to the Earth to that ancient 7



### climate. 8



### Now, I realize that this is an 9


### oversimplificati on, but the bottom line is we 10


### have experienced the benefits of fossil carbon. 11


### It is time to address its consequences. 12


### It is a precious non

- renewable resource. 13


### Coal, oil, and gas, all are too valuable for mere 14


### burning. So one small step is to limit CO 2 

### from 15



### coal

- fired electricity production. It is our 16


### responsibility as citizens to direct you, the 17


### Environmental Protection Agency, to control 18


### emissions, put limits on the unbridled use of 19


### fossil fuels. We give you permission with 20


### citizen oversight to imple ment our laws. We 21


### expect you to do your job, regardless of pressure 22

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### from those who benefit in the present from 1


### spewing carbon dioxide that endangers the future. 2


### Take this small step and continue the 3


### journey until our atmosphere is returned to 350 4



### parts p er million of carbon dioxide, from the 5



### 400

- plus per million we now experience. 6


### Renewable energy must replace the burning of 7



### fossil carbon or we're toast. 8



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 9



### MS. HENDERSON: Thank you for your 10



### attention. 11



### MS. TONEY: Thank you, Ms. He nderson. 12


### MR. SCHUSTER: Hello. My name is Bert 13



### Schuster, B

- e

- r

- t, S

- c

- h

- u

- s

- t

- e

- r. I live in 14


### Buford, Georgia, and I am a retired person. I 15


### don't represent any organization. I speak for 16



### myself. 17



### Last month was the third month in a row 18



### in which carbon d ioxide levels in our atmosphere 19


### topped an average of 400 parts per million, a 20



### level not seen on Earth since at least 800,000 21


### years. It's scary, right? 22

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### I think it is high time that the Federal 1


### Government and all 50 states adopt regulations to 2



### curb the emi ssions of greenhouse gases. I 3



### strongly support the proposed rules by the EPA to 4


### reduce carbon dioxide emissions from existing and 5


### future electric power plants and to foster 6


### increased use of green energy and increased 7


### energy efficiencies. 8



### It is worth noti ng that in recent years, 9



### a large number of coal

- fired power plants were 10



### either shut down or have been scheduled for 11


### retirement. Older plants especially were, or 12


### still are, a source of harmful pollution, often 13


### falling disproportionately on poor communities
, 14


### causing respiratory problems, heart attacks, and 15



### death. 16


### To me, the overriding reason for reducing 17


### the emissions from power plants is to counter the 18



### effects of human

- induced climate change. In many 19


### countries, we are already experiencing extreme 20



### weather conditions caused by climate disruption, 21


### such as severe drought, wildfires, record heat, 22

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### and super storms like hurricanes and typhoons. 1


### If we did nothing to modify how we generate and 2



### use energy and operate our farms, we would soon 3



### be faced with serious e conomic and health risks 4


### that would significantly escalate with each 5


### passing year. 6


### I am here to speak about global warming 7



### because I am concerned about our future. My 8


### concern stems from my reading about climate 9


### science and from my religious faith. 10



### One o f my religious principles is respect 11


### for the interdependent web of all existence of 12


### which we humans are a part. To live sustainably 13


### on this Earth is a moral imperative, and we have 14


### a fiduciary responsibility to deliver a safe 15


### atmosphere and climate to fut ure generations. 16


### I recently saw the highly acclaimed 17


### documentary movie "Chasing Ice," which his really 18


### wonderful and which I recommend to anybody. This 19


### movie came out in 2012, and it documents by means 20



### of time

- lapsed photography how global warming 21



### causes glaciers in Iceland, Greenland, and Alaska 22

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### to erode and disappear. I cannot think of a more 1


### compelling wakeup call. This documentary shows 2


### us that drastic climate change is already 3


### happening. The glaciers are disappearing with 4


### alarming speed. 5



### While I strongly support the proposed EPA 6


### rules, it is clear to me that they are just an 7


### important and necessary first step. To quote 8


### James Hansen who wrote in April of this year, 9



### "Atmosphere CO 2 

### today is already in the danger 10



### zone, and the government should pres ent a plan to 11



### reduce fossil fuel emissions and increase carbon 12


### uptake by the land and biosphere at rates 13


### requires to reduce atmospheric CO 2 

### this century 14


### to, at most, 300 parts per million." End of 15



### quote. 16


### I am just a concerned citizen and do not 17



### have any special expertise, but I would like to 18



### suggest that the EPA make every effort to 19


### regulate hydraulic fracturing for oil and gas, so 20



### as to reduce leakage of methane and prevent 21


### groundwater pollution. 22

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### In addition, there are a number of 1


### policies that I would like the Federal Government 2


### to adopt and implement to avert climate threats. 3



### They probably go beyond the EPA's current 4



### mandate, but I feel compelled, nevertheless, the 5



### mention them here. 6


### End all subsidies for the coal mining 7


### industry, which is helped by low

- priced leases on 8


### federal lands and indirect support for exports. 9



### I have three more sentences. Can I 10



### finish those? 11



### MS. TONEY: Go ahead. 12


### MR. SCHUSTER: Stop awarding leases for 13


### offshore oil and gas drilling. Do not permit 14


### drilling in the Arctic. R egulate hydraulic 15


### fracturing for oil and gas, so as to reduce 16



### leakage of methane, and prevent groundwater 17


### pollution. Create incentives for corporations 18


### and businesses to innovate and profitably develop 19


### alternative energy sources. 20


### I am going to stop here and give you a 21



### copy. 22

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### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 1



### MR. SCHUSTER: Thank you very much. 2



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 3


### Our next speakers are Chris McCorkle and 4



### Bonita Dodd. 5



### [Pause.] 6


### MS. TONEY: We are going to begin with 7



### Chris McCorkle. 8


### MR. McCORKLE: My name is Ch ris McCorkle, 9



### C

- h

- r

- i

- s, M

- c

- C

- o

- r

- k

- l

- e. 10



### I am somewhat reminded that there is a 11


### saying that there seems to be at least one expert 12


### in every room, and it seems that I've been 13


### surrounded by seemingly a whole room full of 14



### experts, many of whom frankly I'm ha ving a 15


### difficult time agreeing with. 16


### I come to you as a third generation 17


### family business owner. I am Vice President of 18


### Operations of a horticultural nursery, and, yes, 19



### we do claim to be in the environmental 20



### enhancement business. We cover over about 800 21


### acres of land in McDuffie County, Georgia, which 22

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### is just west of Augusta. We employ 150 1


### associates and their families to produce 4.5 2


### million plants per year. 3


### From the time my grandfather founded our 4


### company in 1942, our operations have relied on 5



### electri city provided by Jefferson Energy 6


### Cooperative. Energy is a key component to our 7


### operations. From irrigation systems to our 8


### information technologies, affordable and reliable 9


### energy is one of the most critical factors to our 10



### business. 11



### As an owner of our f amily business, the 12


### impacts of energy costs are one of my greatest 13


### concerns and make up a significant portion of 14


### McCorkle Nurseries' operating expenses. Apart 15



### from labor, electrical costs are one of our 16



### greatest expenses. 17


### Having been a member of the Jeff erson 18


### Energy Cooperative for 72 years, our company 19



### knows they try to keep our energy costs as 20


### inexpensive as possible, but I have no doubt that 21


### the EPA's proposal will increase McCorkle 22

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### Nurseries' energy cost, and those increases will 1



### have to be passed on to our customers. 2


### I also fear that energy reliability could 3


### be jeopardized because these rules will remove 4


### coal from the energy mix and reduce the overall 5


### amount of power generation available. McCorkle 6



### Nurseries cannot continue our record of 7



### successful b usiness with rolling blackouts or 8


### brownouts, and though that is an electrical term, 9


### plants that rely on irrigation to survive, I 10


### would probably have to show you a brownout, which 11


### would be millions of dead plants. 12


### As a citizen voter and taxpaying 13



### entrepren eur and business owner in Georgia, I 14


### urge you to reject this proposal and consider a 15



### more balanced approach. 16


### I am reminded of why our country is the 17


### greatest in the world. It is not by the virtue 18


### of government regulation and overreach but due to 19


### the inge nious contributions of the individual. 20



### Thank you. 21



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 22

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### MS. DODD: I know this is going to take 1


### away a few minutes from me, but I will have to 2


### tell you I have never met or seen this gentleman 3



### before. But I have been to McCorkle Nurseri es, 4


### and it is one of the most environmentally 5


### responsible and sustainable operations that I've 6



### ever seen, so . . . 7



### MR. McCORKLE: Thank you. 8



### MS. DODD: And they have great sales on 9



### Father's Day weekends. 10


### [Laughter.] 11


### MS. DODD: My name is Bonita Dodd, a nd I 12


### am from the Georgia Public Policy Foundation. We 13



### are a state

- focused think tank. 14


### We believe that the EPA's subsequent 15


### action from its order in the Federal Register 16


### threatens the public health and welfare of 17


### current and future generations of Georgia ns far 18



### more than greenhouse gases do. 19


### The EPA declares the goal of its Clean 20


### Power Plan is to cut carbon pollution from the 21



### power sector by 30 percent from 2005 levels. 22

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### When the agency starts with referring to carbon 1


### emissions as carbon pollution, it dem onstrates to 2



### us a slanted, not a science

- based agenda. 3


### According to the Federal Register, 4


### President Obama's executive order specifically 5


### directs EPA to build on state leadership, provide 6


### flexibility, and take advantage of a wide range 7



### of energy sources an d technologies towards 8


### building a cleaner power sector. Unfortunately, 9


### the flexibility that the EPA is offering Georgia 10


### is akin to letting a condemned man choose his 11


### method of execution. One way or another, it's 12



### the end. 13



### EPA has offered no alternatives to this 14


### expensive climate change agenda action. It would 15


### require Georgia utilities to cut emissions by an 16


### additional 44 percent by 2030 at existing plants, 17


### and it expects this to be done by converting to 18


### alternative sources of energy and by energy 19



### conserv ation and efficiency. But the EPA won't 20


### credit Georgia's utilities for their work done in 21


### embracing carbon

- free energy by building the 22

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### first nuclear unit since Three Mile Island. 1


### EPA's goal is also to shrink electricity 2


### bills, roughly 8 percent, by incre asing energy 3


### efficiency and reducing demand in the electricity 4


### system. Reducing energy demand, like with water 5



### conservation measures, leaves the utilities 6


### further lacking the revenue they need for the 7


### efficiencies the government wants. 8



### In the Federal Reg ister, the EPA notes, 9


### "At this time, we don't have any estimates 10


### regarding the benefits and costs of this action, 11


### but we do expect it to be a significant 12


### regulatory action with annual effects on the 13


### economy exceeding $100 million." In the rule, 14



### the EPA pr ojects that net climate and health 15


### benefits are 48 billion to 82 billion by 2030. 16



### In the overview, the benefits climb to 55 billion 17


### to 93 billion in 2030, including avoiding 2,700 18



### to 6,600 deaths and 140,000 to 150,000 asthma 19



### attacks in children. 20



### We neve r want our children to suffer, 21


### especially not if their asthma attacks are caused 22

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### by polluting power plants. So these numbers are 1


### important for two reasons. 2



### First, this nation deserves a credible 3


### approach that yields tangible results. Second, 4



### as taxpayer s, we deserve justification of the 5



### financial costs and the claimed benefits. "We 6



### can't tell you the costs, but we do know how much 7


### it can save you." Sounds like a pitch from a 8


### sleazy car dealership. 9



### And those caveats are based on these 10



### statements. When then

- EPA Administrator Lisa 11


### Jackson told Congress back in 2009 that U.S. 12


### sanction alone will not impact global carbon 13


### emission levels, that this was part, quote, of an 14


### overall strategy that is positioning the U.S. for 15


### leadership in an international discus sion. 16


### And then just this month, a former EPA 17


### computer modeler wrote in the Wall Street 18


### Journal, "I realize that my work for the EPA 19



### wasn't that of a scientist. It was more like 20


### that of a lawyer. My job as a modeler was to 21


### build the best case for my clie nt's position." 22

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### Meanwhile, the Institute for 21st Century 1


### Energy predicts that this will cost America's 2


### economy over 50 billion a year between now and 3


### 2030. As for using this action to reduce asthma 4


### attacks and fatalities, the EPA has highlighted 5



### the dr amatic improvements in air quality over the 6


### past 30 years, despite the increase in 7


### population, the economy, and vehicle miles 8


### traveled. So if outdoor pollution is the 9


### problem, why is it that rates of asthma have 10


### risen sharply over the past 30 years? Why are 11


### asthma prevalence and deaths climbing among lower 12


### income and minority families? We should be more 13


### concerned with the EPA report that the average 14


### American spends 90 percent of their time indoors, 15


### and that studies of human exposure to air 16



### pollutants by EPA indicate that levels of 17


### pollutants may be two to five times and 18


### occasionally more than a hundred times higher in 19



### outdoor pollutant levels. 20


### And I see that my time is up, but I will 21


### submit the rest of my testimony. Thank you. 22

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### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 1



### O ur next speakers are Ellen Dugan and Dr. 2



### Gerald Staton. 3



### And for those who do have additional 4


### testimony that they are providing to us, I do 5


### believe that testimony needs to be made available 6



### to

-- there is a table right outside of the door. 7



### Please make sur e that we do get a copy of that, 8



### so that it's included in the record. 9



### [Pause.] 10


### MS. TONEY: We are going to begin with 11



### Ellen Dugan. 12


### MS. DUGAN: Hello. My name is Ellen 13


### Dugan, and I would like to thank the EPA for 14


### having this Public Hearing and the OMNI Hotel for 15


### hosting. I came here today after a 4

- hour car 16


### ride from Asheville, North Carolina, to tell you 17


### my story and my thoughts on the issue at hand. 18


### I am a recent graduate in environmental 19


### health here at Emory University. Before that, 20



### though, about 9 years back, I was a timid high 21



### school student in Asheville, North Carolina. 22

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### My main worries at that time were what my 1



### classmates thought of my clunky green van or 2



### whether the long

- haired boy in my homeroom liked 3



### me. What I should have been more consciou s 4



### about, though, was the coal

- fired power plant 5


### right across the street from my school, about a 6


### quarter mile, which is also the largest 7



### electric

- generating facility in western North 8



### Carolina. 9


### Only recently did I learn that this plant 10



### is on a list of the 1 00 most polluting coal 11


### plants in the United States. It is number 69 out 12



### of about 7,000 power plants. And even more, the 13


### site is listed as high hazard, meaning that if 14


### the coal ash pond or impoundment spilled, there 15


### is a, quote, high likelihood of causing death or 16


### serious injury. 17



### I also learned that the plant has had a 18


### coal ash spill in the past, of which none of the 19



### citizens were informed. 20



### All of this information has led me to 21


### many questions that I did not consider in my time 22

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### in high school: What kinds of effects has this 1



### plant had on my health over the years? What 2


### about the health of my family, my friends, and 3



### the Asheville citizens, as well? 4


### My family has monopolized the 5



### cross

- country running team at my high school over 6



### the century. They even call us the "Dugan 7


### Dynasty," after our last name, because my sister, 8



### two brothers, and I have been on the team for all 9


### 4 years of each of our high school experiences. 10


### As fun as this sounds, I am seriously 11


### concerned about what impacts this has had on our 12



### health as we have each run for 4 years during our 13


### high school career. What is this effect still 14


### having on my little brother's health who is 15


### currently in high school? The most worrisome 16


### part of all this information is the fact that we 17


### have clean energy options at our fingertips. 18



### I believe, as an affected citizen and as 19


### a public health professional, that sanctifying 20


### the Clean Power Plan is necessary to show the 21


### commitment of the United States in combatting 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### climate change and the commitment of the United 1



### States a s world leaders. 2



### Thank you. 3



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 4



### Dr. Staton or "Staton"? 5



### DR. STATON: "Staton." 6



### MS. TONEY: "Staton." Dr. Staton. 7


### DR. STATON: So my name is Gerald Staton. 8



### That's G

- e

- r

- a

- l

- d, S

- t

- a

- t

- o

- n. Thank you for 9


### providing an opportunity f or me to speak. I am a 10



### member of the Board of Directors of the American 11


### Lung Association of the Southeast, and I speak to 12


### you today on behalf of the Lung Association. I 13


### am a physician here in Atlanta, and I practice 14


### and teach at Emory. My specialty is p ulmonary 15



### and critical care medicine. 16


### The American Lung Association's mission 17


### is to save lives by improving lung health and 18


### preventing lung disease. The American Lung 19


### Association believes that we need strong carbon 20



### standards to protect the lung health of everyone, 21


### especially those who suffer from lung disease. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Here in Georgia, tens of thousands of 1


### people have chronic lung diseases that can be 2


### serious or even life threatening. Prevalence 3


### estimates are that nearly 609,000 adult Georgians 4



### have asthma, as to 269,000 children. 528,000 5


### Georgians have chronic obstructive pulmonary 6



### disease, a disease that over time makes it harder 7



### and harder to breathe. If you add those three 8


### up, the asthma in children and adults and those 9



### with what we call "COPD," it is more t han twice 10


### as many patients with cardiovascular disease here 11


### in Georgia. 12


### Carbon pollution leads to warmer 13


### temperatures that can enhance the conditions for 14


### harmful air pollutants, including ozone and 15


### particle pollution. Scientists warn that climate 16



### change is likely to increase the risk of 17


### unhealthy air in large parts of the United 18


### States, leading to more unhealthy air days than 19


### we could have otherwise. More pollution means 20


### more childhood asthma attacks and complications 21


### for those with lung disease, includi ng increased 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### risk of premature death. 1


### In preparation for this, I looked up the 2


### statistics for Fulton County, where I live and 3


### where we are right now. The local data indicate 4


### that we have a failing grade for ozone and a 5


### failing grade for annual particulat e pollution 6


### here in Georgia, right where we are today. 7



### For the millions of Americans who live 8


### with chronic lung diseases, high ozone can make 9



### it difficult for them to breathe, cause them to 10



### cough and wheeze, and can send them to emergency 11


### rooms at hospita ls. Breathing high ozone can 12


### even increase their risk of dying early. 13


### Ozone pollution has been linked to 14


### limiting the growth of lung function in children, 15


### a serious concern, given that 80 percent of a 16


### child's lung develops after birth, and that 17



### limited l ung function can increase the chance of 18


### developing lung disease later in life. 19


### Particle pollution can increase the risk 20


### of heart disease, lung cancer, and asthma 21


### attacks, and can interfere with the growth and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### work of the lungs. The EPA has stated in thei r 1


### integrated science assessment for particulate 2


### matter, December 2009, that fine particle 3


### pollution poses serious health threats. 4


### I just have to give a little aside. As I 5


### said, I am practicing physician here in Atlanta. 6


### I don't need to know what your ai r quality 7



### numbers are, whether we are orange, red, yellow, 8



### green, because the number of messages I have from 9


### patients every day directly correlates with the 10


### air pollution. I mean, it's real thing that I 11



### have to deal with. 12


### In August, particularly when we have 13


### those red air days, I have a lot more calls from 14


### my patients. 15


### Those at high risk from exposure to these 16


### air pollutants are already facing the effects of 17


### warmer temperature. Evidence shows that unless 18


### we can cut carbon pollution, the risk will grow. 19


### In the Lung Association's latest State of 20


### the Air Report, warmer temperatures led to much 21


### worse ozone pollution in cities across the nation 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### in 2010 to 2012. Over 147 million people live in 1


### counties that suffered too many unhealthy ozone 2


### days during that period. Even though we have 3


### made great strides in cutting air pollution, 4


### warmer temperatures will make it much more likely 5


### that we will see more years with too many 6


### unhealthy air days. 7


### By the way, Atlanta is the number 18th 8


### worst city in the country for particulate 9


### pollution. 10


### Cleaning up air pollution will help my 11


### patients, my family, and frankly me. On behalf 12


### of the American Lung Association, I urge EPA to 13


### adopt the strongest possible carbon pollution 14



### standards in the Clean Power Plan in order to 15



### prote ct public health, both now and for my 16



### children in the future. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. Thank you both. 19


### Next, we will hear from Anthony Hudson 20



### and Tammye Vaughn. 21



### [Pause.] 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### MR. HUDSON: Hello. My name is Anthony 1



### Hudson. 2



### MS. TONEY: Just a sec ond, Mr. Hudson, to 3


### make sure we give you all the time. 4



### Go ahead. 5


### MR. HUDSON: My name is Anthony Hudson, 6



### A

- n

- t

- h

- o

- n

- y, H

- u

- d

- s

- o

- n. 7


### We thank you for having this hearing. We 8


### have a great concern about nuclear plants. Right 9


### now, today in Fukushima, t here is a disaster 10


### ongoing today. Over 300 tons of nuclear 11


### radioactive water is being spilled in Pacific 12



### Ocean, and the nuclear

- contaminated radiated 13



### water has now reached and has long now reached 14



### the California shore. 15



### The EPA, as far as I understand

-- and 16


### please correct me if I am wrong

-- do not provide 17


### any types of public notifications of tracking of 18



### this contaminant. 19


### And excuse me for getting a little bit 20


### political because politics impacts the 21


### environment. Our nation has through wars dumped 22

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### over 41 0 tons of depleted uranium in what is 1



### termed the Middle East

-- Pakistan, Iran, and 2


### Iraq. What we are using as depleted uranium, 3



### tank busters, when it hits, it becomes aerosol, 4


### like a fine mist. You can't recapture it. It 5



### becomes airborne. 6



### There is, to my knowledge, no tracking of 7


### this contaminant as it goes through our air and 8


### water systems, but we know that the contamination 9


### lasts for 4.5 billion years. 4.5 billion years. 10


### We know that where it is occurring, there are 11


### birth defects, 1,000 percent inc rease, children 12


### being born without eyes and organs and organs on 13



### the outside. 14


### We know that what they are saying is we 15


### need these nuclear plants for electricity, but we 16


### know the process. They are boiling water for 17


### electricity. That the real purpose of th e 18


### nuclear plants is to create that depleted uranium 19


### and that uranium and dominate the world by 20


### actually poisoning it. We are really asking for 21


### some courage at this point to face it, to state 22

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### it, to track it, to report it, and then to look 1


### at history, beca use we have test law who came up 2


### with a way of providing energy for the world that 3


### is not aggressively destroying us, and we are 4


### ignoring it. It's locked up, and we need to 5



### unlock it. 6


### There are what we call "magnetic 7


### conduction motors" that continue to p roduce 8


### energy without a toxic effect. 9



### It shows a bit callous not to mention and 10


### urge those things, and we would encourage you to 11



### do that because the number of

-- one gentleman 12


### was talking about "I can take you to the number 13



### of plants that are dead because we may not get a 14



### brownout." Well, you don't want to go to the 15


### hospitals that have the children who are 16


### devastated by the contaminated wars and our 17



### nuclear programs. 18


### Thank you for allowing me to speak, and I 19


### hope that the EPA can exert some honesty in th is 20


### policy. Thank you. 21



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Ms. Vaughn? 1


### MS. VAUGHN: Good evening. My name is 2



### Tammye Vaughn. That's T

- a

- m

- m

- y

- e, Vaughn, 3



### V

- a

- u

- g

- h

- n. 4


### Let me begin by thanking you for your 5


### time and for the opportunity to be here today to 6



### express my opposition to EPA's proposed rules for 7


### existing power plants. 8


### I am the Manager of Marketing and 9



### Communications for Altamaha EMC. Altamaha EMC is 10


### an electric membership cooperative located in 11


### southeast Georgia. We supply electricity t o just 12



### under 20,000 members in seven rural counties in 13


### southeast Georgia. 14


### The members of Altamaha EMC simply cannot 15


### afford higher electricity prices. Our rural 16


### members are in a lower income and ge nerally pay a 17


### greater percentage of their income for energy. 18



### Many of the hous eholds in our seven county 19


### service areas spend an estimate average of 22 20


### percent of their after

- tax income in energy 21


### alone. For many of the families in our area, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### such as the elderly and those on fixed incomes, 1


### their annual income is often less than $10,00 0. 2


### Less than $10,000. For these folks, energy bills 3


### represent 71 percent of their family incomes 4


### before accounting for any energy assistance 5


### programs that may be available to them. 6



### At Altamaha EMC, we see the never

- ending 7



### battle every month, as many of our members 8


### continually struggle to pay their electricity 9


### bills. Additional energy cost with no benefit is 10


### simply unacceptable. 11


### The cost of electricity directly impacts 12


### the quality of life in the communities served by 13


### electric cooperatives across the sta te. 14


### Increased cost will slow economic growth, reduce 15


### job opportunities, and force families to make 16


### tough budget decisions. We see this every month, 17



### as many of our members are already forced to make 18


### the tough decision between putting food on the 19



### table for their families. The elderly have to 20


### choose between the medicines that they need for 21


### their health or paying their electric bill. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### I urge the EPA to withdraw this proposal 1



### and work with us on a new common

- sense approach 2



### that will be a true all

- of

- the

- above energy 3


### strategy. Thank you again for your time. I 4


### appreciate your attention. 5



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 6



### Could you please spell the name of the 7



### group, Altamaha? 8


### MS. VAUGHN: Yes. It is Altamaha, just 9



### like the river. It's A

- l

- t

- a

- m

- a

- h

- a, EMC for 10



### Electri c Membership Cooperative. 11



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 12



### MS. VAUGHN: Thank you so much. 13



### MS. TONEY: Our next speakers are Brad 14



### Rouse and Terry Floyd. 15


### I don't know if I pronounced it. Is it 16



### "Rouse" or "Rouse"? 17


### MR. ROUSE: You said it right. 18



### MS. TONEY: "Ro use"? 19



### MR. ROUSE: "Rouse." 20



### MS. TONEY: Okay. 21



### MR. ROUSE: Like "house" with an "R." 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### MS. TONEY: Got it. 1


### MR. ROUSE: Are you going to let me go 2



### first? 3



### MS. TONEY: Mr. Rouse. 4



### MR. ROUSE: Yes. B

- r

- a

- d, R

- o

- u

- s

- e. 5


### I support the EPA regulations as a fir st 6


### step in ending our dependence on fossil fuels, 7



### but make no mistake about it, we need to have a 8



### longer term plan that gets to end our dependence 9



### on fossil fuels. 10


### I also support an approach which would 11



### allow the use of a carbon tax at the state or the 12



### re gional level as a superior approach to the 13



### regulatory rules and the process. 14


### I had studied economics in college, got 15



### an MBA, have a 38

- year career in planning, and 16


### over half of that is in the utility industry, as 17


### a planner for the utility industry. 18



### I als o grew up in eastern North Carolina 19


### and learned to love and enjoy the Outer Banks. 20


### Whenever I go back there, I really just

-- it's 21


### such a magical place, and it pains me to think 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### that future generations might not have that to 1


### enjoy, might have less than wh at we have and some 2



### of the great places that would be threatened. 3



### I have studied fossil fuels. I have 4


### studied the impact of fossil fuels, and we just 5


### have a fossil fuel dependence problem in this 6


### country. We need to be moving off of fossil 7



### fuels. 8



### Ther e is a big problem. Through my 9


### business background, I have developed a big faith 10


### in the free market as the best way to provide a 11


### good living and a good life for people, but 12


### honestly, the free market is based on two people 13


### trading and both of them being ma de better off by 14


### the trade. If we do just more of that trading 15



### and do that, then the world would be better off, 16


### and that is the whole theory of the free market 17



### and why the free market works. 18


### But the problem is when you have a trade 19



### and the costs of that trade are not incorporated 20


### into that trade and instead the costs are being 21



### borne by somebody else, then that becomes a 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### failure of capitalism. What we have with fossil 1


### fuels today is the failure of market capitalism. 2



### It is in fact the worst failure of mar ket 3


### capitalism in the history of capitalism. 4


### What you are doing through the EPA is 5


### saying that society has to step in and make a 6


### change in some form or fashion to correct the 7


### problems in the market. You are doing the things 8


### that Teddy Roosevelt did when he broke up the 9


### trusts and people on down the road. It is sort 10


### of part and parcel of our American history, and 11


### so I applaud the EPA for taking that step and 12


### doing that. 13


### We have a problem, though, with the 14


### rules, and this is why I advocate for a carbon 15



### t ax, because you are only covering the large 16


### sources of power. You are only looking at the 17



### power sector, and there are a lot of other 18


### contributors to the carbon problem. One of them 19


### is heating, and another one is transportation. 20



### Then another one, I think was mentioned earlier, 21


### is cogeneration or the small source of power 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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- 3376446



### producer, and there are others. 1


### One of the things that I am concerned 2


### about is that with your carbon rules, we should 3


### have more of an emphasis on the fact that that 4


### longer term ending of dependence on fossil fuels 5


### probably means that electricity is the big winner 6


### long term in terms of our energy supply. We 7


### don't have a lot of point

- source use of fossil 8



### fuels in the future. 9


### But your rules would tend to discriminate 10


### against electric vehic les. Your rules would tend 11


### to discriminate against electric heat pumps, and 12


### both of those are technologies which really 13


### utilities ought to be pushing and which I think 14



### would add to the carbon problem. 15


### So I would just encourage that you would 16



### allow a carb on tax, a revenue

- neutral carbon tax 17


### as an option for the states, so that they could 18


### incorporate. I mean, it might very well be that 19


### utility output would increase because they would 20


### get a greater share of the total energy pie, 21


### which is what needs to happe n long term, and yet 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### it would hurt them on the carbon rules. But it 1


### would help overall with the CO 2 

### reduction. 2


### So with that being said, I really applaud 3


### what you are doing. I think it is great that you 4


### are taking a step, and I Just would look for some 5



### f lexibility, maybe provide an incentive if a 6



### state would adopt a carbon tax that would be 7



### broad

- based, that the large emitters could 8


### actually get sort of a less stringent restriction 9


### in exchange for the fact that they are adopting a 10



### broader based carbon tax , which is really where 11


### it hopefully will go nationally and 12


### legislatively. 13


### And with that, I thank you very much. 14



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 15



### Mr. Floyd. 16


### MR. FLOYD: Good evening. My name is 17



### Terry Floyd, T

- e

- r

- r

- y, F

- l

- o

- y

- d. 18


### And I'm from Georgia, and my f amily came 19


### here in 1820s. My father, he worked at Oak Ridge 20


### during World War II and Huntsville at NASA after 21


### the war on space adventures, and I just kind of 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### enjoyed life. 1


### But anyway, everyone has seen the movie 2


### or people have seen the movie "Silkwood" ab out 3


### the lady that worked at the nuclear plant in 4



### Oklahoma or Arkansas, and in that movie, she was 5


### working there, and she got contaminated. The 6


### question was, Was she deliberately contaminated 7



### or not? It was because she was a troublemaker. 8



### She was a union organizer. In the movie, there 9


### is a character, Karl Morgan, and he is one of the 10


### experts. His character, a real

- live person, was 11


### the expert witness that supported Karen 12


### Silkwood's situation, and he appeared in many 13


### courtroom situations concerning nuclea r energy 14



### for about 15 or 20 years. 15


### Well, I have right here a book called 16


### "The Angry Genie: One Man's Walk Through the 17


### Nuclear Age," Karl Z. Morgan. Also, after his 18


### retirement at Oak Ridge, he came to Georgia Tech 19


### and was here. Karl Morgan is recognized as being 20



### the founder of nuclear health and how to evaluate 21


### exposure to radiation and the damages that are 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### there for humans and other living beings. 1


### Well, in this book that was published in 2



### 1999, Karl Morgan wrote about a nuclear reactor 3



### that was develope d at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, under 4


### the direction of Dr. Albert Weinberg. I am going 5



### to read two sentences on page 67, Chapter 4, and 6


### the title of this chapter is "My Biggest 7


### Mistake," by Dr. Karl Morgan. 8


### "I remain firm in my conviction that the 9



### molten salt thermal breeder reactor that we had 10


### developed and built at Oak Ridge provided a safer 11



### and more acceptable means of nuclear power. The 12


### molten salt thorium breeder held great promise as 13


### an energy system for the future and received 14


### enthusiastic support amon g most scientists at Oak 15


### Ridge." And that's where we dropped the ball on 16



### energy. 17



### Richard Nixon in 1972 canceled this 18


### program, and by the way, this just happens to be 19


### during the intensity of what people know as 20


### Watergate. Now, we know at that time, Nixon was 21


### the most rational person, and I don't think he 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### knew the difference between a breeder reactor and 1


### a mousetrap. Anyway, he closed funding on this 2



### reactor, and that's where we need to revisit and 3


### investigate, and we have a great opportunity 4



### there. 5



### I su pport what you are doing, and as far 6


### as scrutinizing the emissions of our atmosphere 7



### -- and by the way, thorium and the nuclear 8


### isotopes that are naturally on our planet that we 9


### live on is the atmosphere stabilizer. 10


### You have heard of the Northern Lights

. 11


### We don't get to see them down here, but it's the 12


### thorium that generates those electromagnetic 13



### waves

-- with intersection of the solar winds 14


### generates that, and it is also the thorium that 15


### provides the sustainability of our atmosphere. 16



### That is the diffe rence between Earth and Mars. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. Thank you, 19



### gentlemen. 20



### Our next speakers are Barbara Stahmke and 21


### Jane Laping. Please correct me if I have not 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### pronounced those names correctly. 1


### MS. STAHMKE: You did a good job. 2



### MS. TONE Y: All right. 3



### MS. STAHMKE: Most people can't. 4


### Hi. My name is Barbara Stahmke, 5



### B

- a

- r

- b

- a

- r

- a, S

- t

- a

- h

- m

- k

- e. 6


### As a registered dietician, I work with 7


### people to prevent disease and promote health. I 8


### see the impacts of climate change and 9


### environmental ju stice through this lens. As a 10


### person of faith, I believe that we live within an 11


### interdependent web of existence. I see the 12


### impacts of climate change and environmental 13


### justice through this lens. As an American, I am 14



### grateful that we are able to speak out and make 15



### choices. 16


### I see the impacts of our loss of win

- win 17


### thinking when we don't consider climate change 18


### and environmental justice in our choices and 19


### commentary. I would like to comment from this 20


### philosophy of my life and experience. 21


### As a registered d ietician, I worry about 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### the loss of food diversity and security, which 1


### will lead to increased malnutrition. I worry 2


### about food insecurity and food diversity, which 3


### our nation already is experiencing in those at 4


### the margins of income. Food insecurity and food 5


### diversity will be impacted by decreased 6


### production, increasing variability of weather, 7


### including frequency of major weather events like 8


### droughts and floods. Those are the margins of 9


### income and eventually those at the median of 10


### income may find food in creasingly at prices that 11


### cannot be afforded for the diversity of diet 12


### necessary for a healthy existence. 13


### American can already see what happens 14



### when a diverse diet is not available to the 15


### population. Right now, in our country, it seems 16



### to be related to a n inability to purchase healthy 17


### food or inappropriate choices in food. It's 18


### leading to rising health care costs, obesity, 19



### heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. These are 20



### all related to some form of malnutrition. 21


### We think of malnutrition as a poor 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### people' s disease. The reality is it is also 1


### related to the poor choices in our diet. With 2


### climate change's impact on food security and 3


### diversity, it will no longer be our choice. Our 4


### choice will be limited by the limited 5


### availability of food, whether because i t is 6


### totally not available in some areas or due to 7



### costs of food, because it has become limited in 8


### availability or, in economic terms, a scarce 9



### resource. 10



### Malnutrition in children leads to a 11


### decreased capacity to learn and grow to physical 12


### productivity. M alnutrition in adults leads to a 13


### decreased ability to think, work, and 14



### problem

- solve. These losses will not be evident 15


### quickly. These losses will creep up on us to the 16


### point we have no ability to solve our problems 17


### anymore. This decreases our economic v iability 18



### as a nation. We must make decisions now to be a 19



### successful nation in the future. 20


### As a person of faith, I believe we are an 21


### interdependent web. From Matthew 25:40, "Truly, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### I say to you, to the extent that you did it to 1



### one of these brothers of m ine, even the least of 2


### them, you did it to me." 3



### Whether we think of these brothers of 4


### mine as our Earth, as our fellow beings on this 5


### planet, the nations of the world, American 6


### brothers and sisters, local neighbors, or our 7


### immediate family and friends, I believe we must 8


### remember always that we are an interdependent web 9



### of life. 10



### We must make decisions that value this 11


### planet and our brethren. As was stated this 12



### mo r ning by the Reverend Gerald Durley, civil 13


### rights activists of longstanding, minister of 14



### faith , and man called to environmental action, 15



### the First Commandment of the God of Abraham is to 16


### take care of this gift of the Earth to us. This 17


### interpretation was a gift to me this morning from 18


### Reverend Durley, and it's a gift to all of us 19



### that we have domini on over this Earth, and we are 20


### acting as God of this world. We bear ultimate 21


### responsibility for our actions. Our decisions 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### for America impact the whole world in so many 1



### ways. We are models for some of a way to be on 2


### this Earth. We are beneficent caregi vers for 3



### some. We are consumers of resources to others. 4



### We are hated intermediaries for others. Our 5


### decisions in America on every level are 6


### important. We must take courage in hand and make 7


### choices that will help for the long run. That 8



### will leave us wi th a planet to live on that will 9


### allow all people an opportunity to succeed in 10



### this wonderful web of life that we have been 11



### granted. 12


### As an American, I am grateful that I live 13


### in a place that will listen to my thoughts on 14


### this issue. I am grateful that I have sufficient 15



### food today. I am grateful that I have a career 16


### to help people make choices to be assisted to 17



### resources that will make a health difference in 18


### their lives. I am grateful. We must start to 19


### treat our commons better. We must do our job. 20



### Tha nk you. 21



### [Time clock sounds.] 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### MS. STAHMKE: And I support clean air. 1


### [Laughter.] 2



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 3


### Is it Ms. "Laping" or "Laping"? 4


### MS. LAPING: "Laping." You said it right 5



### the first time. 6


### MS. TONEY: I said it right the first 7


### time. Okay, "Lapi ng." Ms. Laping. 8


### MS. LAPING: My name is Jane Laping, 9



### J

- a

- n

- e, L

- a

- p

- i

- n

- g. 10



### I am a long

- term environmentalist and a 11


### person of faith, and for those reasons, I felt 12


### compelled today to come from Asheville, North 13


### Carolina, to give my comments about the Clea n 14



### Power Plan. 15


### My comments will be brief. Congress has 16



### failed to act. President Obama has directed the 17


### EPA to carry out his Climate Action Plan. Now 18



### it's the EPA's turn. 19


### I said my comments would be brief, but 20


### they're not going to be that brief. 21


### [Laugh ter.] 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### MS. LAPING: I thought you all needed a 1


### little humor after a very long day. I do. 2


### Time after time, Congress has denied that 3


### climate change exists. Time after time, Congress 4


### has been unable to bring any legislation about 5


### climate change forward, an d time after time, 6


### Congress has avoided the conversation as much as 7


### possible. 8



### Out of frustration with this ineffective 9


### Congress, President Obama courageously exerted 10


### his executive powers and directed the EPA to 11


### carry out his Climate Action Plan. EPA's Cl ean 12


### Power Plan is welcome but long overdue. EPA has 13


### a pattern of controlling air pollution from power 14



### plants pollutant by pollutant. Controls have 15


### been put in place in arsenic, mercury, sulfur 16


### dioxide, nitrogen oxide, and particulate matter, 17


### costing indu stry millions of dollars. 18



### But now for the first time, EPA is 19


### proposing placing limits on carbon dioxide 20


### emissions. Will industry fight these limits? 21


### You better believe they will. But the bigger 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### question is, Will EPA stand strong against 1


### industry? 2



### I re spectfully ask the EPA to make the 3


### Clean Power Plan rues as stringent as you can. 4


### Make them so stringent that it will be 5


### economically unfeasible to operate a fossil 6



### fuel

- fired power plant. Make them so stringent 7


### that the power industry will fully invest in 8


### cleaner alternative energy sources that don't 9


### depend on fossil fuels. Make them so stringent 10


### that innovation will be spurred, newer 11


### technologies will be developed, and energy will 12



### cost less than it does now. 13



### In addition, I ask the EPA to shorten the 14



### t ime frame for controlling carbon dioxide. 15


### Cutting carbon emissions from power plants by 30 16


### percent by 2030, 16 years from now, is not enough 17


### or soon enough. Climate change is a critical 18


### situation, and timing is urgent. We need to work 19



### better and faster. Not just our health, but our 20


### survival as a human species is at stake. 21


### God created a beautiful planet for us to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### live on with abundant clean air, clean water, 1


### clean land, and gave us the responsibility to 2



### care for it. Since the industrial revolution, we 3


### have done a good job of fouling this gift of the 4


### Earth that God has given to us. 5


### EPA, we are counting on you to do what is 6


### in your power to reduce carbon emissions from 7



### power plants. You may be our last hope. But 8


### will you have the strength to act to mak e rules 9


### more stringent, or will you be like Congress and 10



### fail to act? 11


### In a list of EPA goals, the first goal is 12


### to address climate change and improve air 13


### quality. If you live up to this challenge, 14


### don’t' stop there. Controlling one

- third of 15



### carbon pollu tion that comes from power plants 16


### won't solve global climate change. The U.S. 17


### needs to be a leader in energy efficiency and 18


### energy production and be a model for countries 19


### across the globe, just as we were a model, 20


### unfortunately, for excessive energy use a nd 21


### unsustainable and thoughtless sources of energy. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### The world looks to the U.S. as a leader. Show 1


### the world the just and sustainable way to reduce 2


### carbon dioxide emissions that are implicated in 3


### causing climate change. We are depending on you. 4



### Thank yo u so much. 5



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. Thank you, 6



### ladies. 7


### Our next speakers are David White and 8



### Harry Gregory. 9



### [Pause.] 10


### MS. TONEY: Mr. White or Mr. Gregory? 11



### MR. WHITE: Yes. 12



### MS. TONEY: Mr. White. 13



### MR. WHITE: Mr. White. 14



### MS. TONEY: Mr. Gregory present ? 15


### [No audible response.] 16



### MR. WHITE: David White, D

- a

- v

- i

- d, 17



### W

- h

- i

- t

- e. 18


### Thank you for the opportunity to submit 19


### testimony in support of EPA's proposed clean 20


### power rule. My name is David White, and I am the 21



### Director of the Gulf of Mexico Restoration 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### Cam paign for the National Wildlife Federation. I 1


### live in St. Petersburg, Florida, but my work 2



### covers the entire Gulf Coast. 3


### The goal of the Gulf Campaign is to 4


### ensure the recovery of fish and wildlife 5


### populations in the communities of the entire Gulf 6



### Coast, following the BP oil spill disaster in 7


### April of 2010. 8


### As devastating as the oil spill was, 9


### climate change and ocean acidification from 10


### carbon pollution are still the largest threats 11


### facing coastal fish and wildlife resources, 12


### marine ecosystems, and coast al communities. If 13


### we fail to dramatically reduce carbon pollution, 14


### accelerating climate change and ocean 15


### acidification could eventually undermine all of 16


### our restoration efforts, waste literally tens of 17



### billions in restoration dollars, escalate 18


### degradatio n of important coastal ecosystems, and 19



### increase threats to entire coastal communities. 20


### About 10 million people live along the 21


### Gulf Coast. These communities face increasing 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### challenges from annual natural disasters, such as 1



### hurricanes and severe coastal fl ooding, and from 2



### long

- term hazards, such as storm

- induced erosion, 3



### land subsidence, and sea

- level rise. 4


### In just the past 10 years, eight of the 5


### costliest hurricanes in American history caused 6


### an estimated $225 billion in damages to the five 7



### Gulf states. Hurricanes in Katrina and Rita in 8


### 2005 caused the loss of 217 square miles of 9


### Louisiana's coastal wetlands, destroying 10


### important nesting, wintering, and foraging areas 11


### for countless birds, including ducks and 12


### waterfowl, wading birds, and migrating songbird s. 13


### The estuaries and coastal systems of the 14


### Gulf Coast, such as the Mississippi River Delta, 15


### Mobile Bay, Galveston Bay, Tampa Bay, and the 16


### Mississippi Sound, provide critical nursery 17


### habitat for 80 to 95 percent of all of the 18



### commercial and recreational fish species in the 19


### Gulf and support nationally important oysters and 20


### shrimp industries. 21


### Many of these areas have been recognized 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### as estuaries of national significance by EPA's 1


### national estuary program, and they are 2


### particularly vulnerable to climate chan ge. 3


### From Florida to Texas, increasing erosion 4



### of coastal barrier islands undermine storm 5


### protection for coastal communities, degrades 6


### beaches and supports the local tourism economy, 7


### and affect numerous species like Kemp's ridleys 8



### and loggerhead sea turtle s. Just about all of 9


### the wildlife species that occur along the coast 10


### are at increasing risk from habitat loss from 11


### rising sea levels associated with the climate 12


### change. While these coastal habitats might 13


### naturally move inland as sea levels rise, the 14



### curr ent rate of increase is likely to be too fast 15



### for these natural processes to occur. 16


### Efforts to resist increasing coastal 17


### erosion by building sea walls and other hard 18


### infrastructure will prevent inland migration of 19



### coastal habitats and lead to even more lo ss of 20



### coastal wetlands. 21


### Coral reefs are among the most important 22

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### biologically ecosystems in the Gulf, supporting 1


### high levels of biodiversity and providing 2


### significant economic value through tourism and 3


### fishery habitat. Oyster and coral reefs in the 4



### Gulf provide many human services, including 5


### reducing shoreline erosion and storm surge, 6


### creating habitat from many other species, and 7


### providing water quality by filtering nutrients 8



### and sediments. These habitats have declined as a 9


### result of increased water temp erature and 10


### increasing ocean acidity from carbon pollution. 11



### Ocean surface waters have become 30 12


### percent more acidic as they absorb large amounts 13


### of atmospheric carbon, adversely affecting 14



### shell

- building organisms like corals, krill, 15



### oysters, clams, and cr abs, and thereby 16


### threatening the entire marine food chain. 17


### Clearly, our changing climate is already 18


### altering the physical, chemical, and biological 19



### characteristics of our oceans, coasts, and 20


### adjacent watersheds. Increasing air and water 21



### temperatures, cha nging precipitation patterns, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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### rising sea levels, and ocean acidification will 1


### increasingly confound efforts to restore or 2


### sustain coastal ecosystems. Actions taken now to 3


### significantly reduce carbon pollution will reduce 4


### future impacts from storms and sea

- level rise, 5


### significantly decreasing the expense of response 6



### and recovery. 7


### We owe it to future generations to make 8


### these necessary reductions in carbon pollutions 9



### now. 10


### Thank you for this opportunity to express 11


### our strong support for EPA's historic actio n to 12


### combat climate change and ocean acidification. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 15



### Is Harry Gregory present? Harry Gregory? 16


### [No audible response.] 17


### MS. TONEY: All right. At this time, do 18


### we have anyone else who is present who would like 19



### to speak at this time, who may not have signed up 20


### but is present and would like to speak? 21


### Yes. If you would, please come and give 22

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### us your name. and spell your name for us for the 1



### record. 2


### MS. EILERMANN: My name is Jana 3



### Eilermann, J

- a

- n

- a. Last name is 4



### E

- i

- l

- e

- r

- m

- a

- n

- n. 5



### MS. TONEY: Can you spell that for me 6


### again? I'm sorry. 7



### MS. EILERMANN: Yeah. It's tough. 8



### E

- i

- l

- e

- r

- m

- a

- n

- n. I am coming today from 9



### Asheville, North Carolina. I work there in 10


### mental health care, and my background is in 11



### wilderness and envir onmental education. I come 12


### here because I feel a strong connection to the 13



### environment around me, and because of that, the 14


### need to protect it. 15


### I am studying ecopsychology which relates 16



### how we relate to nature as to how we relate to 17



### ourselves, and when I l ook at my students and 18


### myself and my family members and I see a massive 19


### amount of depression, anxiety, and ADHD, I know 20


### that that's not necessarily related to ourselves 21


### but how we're relating to our environment. And 22

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### we're looking at our environment as a w ay, like 1



### we are better than the environment. We need to 2


### own it, we need to understand it and manipulate 3


### the environment. I don't think that is a very 4


### healthy way to look at it. 5


### When I think about the energy crisis and 6


### what we are going through now tryin g to find 7


### enough energy resources and use things 8


### appropriately, I think a lot of our approach is 9



### we are better than the environment, we need to 10



### own it, we need to dominate it. 11


### So from my perspective, I would like to 12



### see the EPA kind of hold us accountable to that 13


### and force people to relate to nature a little bit 14



### better and as more of a collaborative effort as 15


### we're trying to move forward and create something 16



### that is sustainable and can last a while. 17



### Thank you. 18



### MS. TONEY: Thank you. 19



### Do we have anyone el se that would like to 20


### add their testimony to the record at this time? 21


### [No audible response.] 22

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### MS. TONEY: One more. Anyone else who 1


### would like to add their testimony at this time? 2


### [No audible response.] 3


### MS. TONEY: Seeing none, at this time, we 4


### are goi ng to adjourn

-- not adjourn. Let me 5


### correct that. We are going to recess. We are 6


### going to recess until we have additional speakers 7


### or until 8 p.m., whichever arrives first. 8



### Let me say thank you to those of you who 9



### have come and who have taken out your time to 10


### share with us this evening. We do greatly 11


### appreciate that. 12



### At this time, we will stand in recess 13


### until we have additional speakers. 14


### [Recess taken from 7:45 to 8 p.m.] 15


### MS. TONEY: It is now officially 8 p.m., 16


### and we are adjourned until tomorrow . Thank you. 17


### [Whereupon, at 8 p.m., the Public Hearing 18


### was adjourned, to reconvene at 9 a.m., Wednesday, 19


### July 30, 2014.] 20

21

22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washingto n: 202

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