1 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DECEIV 

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATIO~l D 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS JUL 2 4 2014 

HEARING DO KET 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

BAER AIR, INC., 

FDMS No. 

FAA-2014-0112 

Respondent. 

Wednesday, 

July 9, 2014 

The teleconference convened, 

pursuant to notice, at 10:46 a.m. 

BEFORE: 

THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, 

Administrative Law Judge 

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APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

VINCENT BENNETT, ESQ. 

Of: Federal Aviation Administration 

Office of the Regional Counsel 

12 New England Executive Park 

Burlington, MA 01803 

(781) 238-7040 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

JARED ALLEN, ESQ. 

1997 Annapolis Exchange Parkway 

Suite 300 

Annapolis, MD 21401 

(301) 294-8550 

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1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 10:46 a.m. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the 

4 record in the matter of Baer Air, Inc. This 

5 is Docket No. FAA-2014-0112. 

6 Today is Wednesday, July 9, 2014, 

7 and the parties have convened by telephone for 

8 a litigation scheduling conference. 

9 The Federal Aviation 

10 Administration, which I'll hereinafter refer 

11 to as the FAA is represented by its Attorney 

12 of Record, Mr. Vincent J. Bennett. The 

13 Respondent, Baer Air, Inc. is represented by 

14 its Attorney of Record, Mr. Jared M. Allen. 

15 Good morning, everyone. 

16 MR. BENNETT: Good morning, Judge. 

17 MR. ALLEN: Good morning. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Note that we 

19 started late today because of the snafu in my 

20 office. Apparently, there was no court 

21 reporter hired, or there had been a 

22 miscommunicationabout the hiring of the court 

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1 reporter this morning. 

2 So, we're very grateful to our 

3 Court Reporter, Josh Borden, for appearing on 

4 such short notice. 

5 I' 11 note that prior to today' s 

6 conference, on June 16, 2014, an order 

7 continuing the originally scheduled Rule 16 

8 litigation scheduling conference was filed. 

9 Subsequently on July 2, 2014, an 

10 order finding Respondent filed a timely 

11 request for a hearing and denying FAA's motion 

12 to dismiss was filed. 

13 In addition, I have before me, an 

14 Agency and Respondent joint proposed 

15 litigation schedule that was filed by the 

16 parties on approximately June 4, 2014. 

17 So, I'm going to thank both 

18 Counsel for their patience in waiting for this 

19 conference to get started. We normally don't 

20 have these problems. So, I really appreciate 

21 your patience. 

22 I think we' 11 have a very short 

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1 conference, given the work that the Counsel 

2 have already done. 

3 So, I have the proposed litigation 

4 schedule before me, and I have a couple 

5 questions to ask, and I'll start with you, Mr. 

6 Bennett. 

7 You had indicated that you wanted 

8 the hearing in Orlando, Florida around the 

9 week of March 16, 2015. 

10 What I need to know is about how 

11 much time do you think the hearing will take, 

12 and I'd like you to assume, just for the sake 

13 of argument today, that there are all the 

14 issues on the table at the date of trial that 

15 might appear to be on the table today. 

16 Obviously, if some things get 

17 resolved between now and the date of the 

18 hearing, that will narrow the amount of time 

19 the parties have to spend, but I do want to 

20 have the largest estimate of time, so that we 

21 schedule enough time for the hearing now, in 

22 the event that nothing gets resolved. 

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1 So, how much time do you think 

2 your presentation of your case in chief would 

3 be, just as a general guess? 

4 MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, as a 

5 general swag, I would assume that I could put 

6 my case on probably within six hours, at the 

7 very, very longest, and that at most, I don't 

8 I would not anticipate that the entire 

9 hearing would take anymore than one day, but 

10 I would block two. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

12 MR. BENNETT: Just to be on the 

13 safe side. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say it 

15 would take you only six hours to put on your 

16 case, are you talking about just the 

17 presentation of your direct exam, or you're 

18 including the potential cross-examination of 

19 your witnesses? 

20 MR. BENNETT: That would be 

21 including the cross-exam, as well. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then Mr. 

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1 Allen, let me turn to you. 

2 How much time do you think it 

3 would take for the Respondent to present its 

4 responsive case, assuming it puts one on? 

5 MR. ALLEN: Well, Judge, I can say 

6 that we probably most likely would put one on, 

7 and as far as time is concerned, something 

8 similar to Mr. Bennett's time estimate, but 

9 overall, I would estimate that the three days 

10 would probably be a safe assumption, for a 

11 full hearing. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 

13 Then let me ask a different question. 

14 On page 1 of the two-page proposed 

15 litigation schedule, under paragraph (b), 

16 Motions, you, Mr. Bennett, have indicated on 

17 behalf of everyone that all pre-hearing 

18 motions needed to be served by January 16, 

19 2015, and I have a question about that. 

20 Typically, I set up a due date for 

21 filing any and all dispositive motions with an 

22 answer date and a reply date, and then I also 

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1 set up a telephone conference for argument on 

2 dispositive motions. 

3 My question is, was it your intent 

4 to have all of those motions filed before 

5 January 16, 2015, with the telephone hearing 

6 occurring about that time, or was this just a 

7 general date that you were willing to work 

8 with? 

9 MR . BENNETT : Ma'am, it was a 

10 general date. I thought that it would provide 

11 backing up, if you would please, from our 

12 proposed date of mid March. Thirty days prior 

13 would give at least -- that would be February 

14 15th, and within the 30 days prior to that, it 

15 would give Your Honor time to go ahead and 

16 have some flexibility, as to what she wanted 

17 to do. 

18 So, the January 16th date was what 

19 we suggested, so that the schedule would have 

20 enough flexibility or be as rigid as you 

21 wanted it to be. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr. 

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1 Allen, would you have anything to add to that? 

2 MR. ALLEN: No, Your Honor. 

3 Respondent wouldn't have any objection to 

4 having everything filed by January 16th, and 

5 if you would like to have a hearing for those 

6 motions on that day or some time in the near 

7 future after that date, there would be no 

8 objection from the Respondent. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so it 

10 sounds like it's a little flexible for you 

11 both. 

12 Let me tell you a little bit about 

13 my schedule. 

14 I currently have -- I'm going to 

15 double-check to make sure that I haven't had 

16 anything added since I last looked. 

17 You're right about where I have 

18 stopped setting trials. I have a trial the 

19 week of February 22nd, and then I have a trial 

2 0 -- another trial the week of March 9th through 

21 the 13th, and that about ends where I have 

22 set. 

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1 So, let's talk about setting a 

2 trial date and then we can back-track and talk 

3 about a comfortable time to be filing motions, 

4 and maybe I should talk a little bit about 

5 that too. 

6 Mr. Bennett, starting with you, 

7 and I know that things can change, but just 

8 given your general knowledge of the case right 

9 now, do you think it's possible that you might 

10 be filing dispositive motions, and when I say 

11 dispositive motions, I'm talking about a 

12 motion for summary judgement, for example. 

13 MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, it is 

14 possible. I think that the case really is 

15 going to be a very simple one. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

17 MR. BENNETT: It will depend on 

18 what happens in discovery, but yes, I'd say 

19 yes. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

21 MR. BENNETT: If that answers your 

22 question, yes, Ma'am. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 

2 In your general experience, once you get a 

3 summary judgement motion or once you file one, 

4 how much time do you like to have when you 

5 want to answer something like that? 

6 Typically, I give two to three 

7 weeks, and then I give a two week window for 

8 any reply. 

9 Do you have a different time frame 

10 that you usually like to work with, or does 

11 that sound about right to you? 

12 MR. BENNETT: Ma'am, that would be 

13 fine. I've seen the judges use anywhere from 

14 15 to 30 days, to get a reply in, and then a 

15 subsequent response from the Agency, back to 

16 them. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, Mr. Allen, 

18 how about you? Any comments or a differing 

19 opinion? 

20 MR. ALLEN: No, Your Honor. Two 

21 weeks would be acceptable for reply to any 

22 sort of dispositive motion for the Respondent. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, that's very 

2 helpful. Thank you. 

3 So, let me take a look, and let's 

4 talk about holiday schedules. 

5 You're talking about having all 

6 discovery completed by December 5, 2014. 

7 Typically, it's been my experience 

8 that around, I would say December 15th, 

9 everyone starts to get very tired and they 

10 don't want to do anything but spend some time 

11 with their family, and then everyone re12 energizes around January 7th or 8th. 

13 If you want to work during the 

14 holiday period, I certainly will not stop you 

15 from doing that, but I just want to know if 

16 either one or both of you have kind of gotten 

17 a sense that you would rather just not have a 

18 lot of work during that time, and I ask 

19 because I used to sit on the Bench in the 

20 state where I used to work, and it was pretty 

21 quiet over the holidays, no matter whether you 

22 wanted to schedule things or not, people just 

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1 are not amenable, and that's reasonable. 

2 So, if you don't want to work 

3 during that time frame, I '11 probably push out 

4 a little bit on the January 16th date, but Mr. 

5 Bennett, I'll start with you. What is your 

6 preference? 

7 MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, I 

8 appreciate your sensitivities to the holidays. 

9 My initial thoughts for putting it 

10 out on December 5th was that everyone would 

11 have gotten over the heavy food from 

12 Thanksgiving and might want to get everything 

13 done before the Christmas holiday started. 

14 I would have no objection at all 

15 to pushing this farther off of the holidays. 

16 I agree, I don't think anything really is 

17 going to get done of significance over the 

18 holidays. 

19 My wife has already indicated to 

20 me for example, that I'd better not be 

21 planning on taking anything home because if I 

22 do, she won't -- I will not like the result. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, that seems 

2 clear. 

3 MR. BENNETT: So, there was no 

4 question, as to what that message was meaning. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, how about 

6 you , Mr . All en? 

7 MR. ALLEN: Respondent would have 

8 no objection to amending the dates. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, let me take 

10 a look at my calendar, and I'm going to 

11 suggest some things to you. 

12 So, let's see, and Mr. Court 

13 reporter, there is going to be a little bit of 

14 silence, but you'll just need to bear with me. 

15 (Pause) 

16 Okay, how about this. I'm going 

17 to suggest this and see what you think. 

18 If you want, you can keep your 

19 December 5th, 2014 end date for discovery, but 

20 you may want to change it a little bit, based 

21 on what I'm going to suggest. Maybe not. 

22 If we have all dispositive motions 

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1 filed by January 23, 2015, that would put a 

2 response date for the responding party, or 

3 both, if you both file them, on February 13th, 

4 or thereabouts, with a reply due on February 

5 27,2015. 

6 Then I need to be in town to 

7 actually hear motions, so, I'm thinking March 

8 17th or March 18th, for the telephone 

9 argument, and if there is no dispositive 

10 motion, I suppose I should keep them on my 

11 calendar and I have them available and I hold 

12 them for final pre-hearing status conferences, 

13 which can be very helpful to the parties and 

14 to me, as well. 

15 If we do that, then we're talking 

16 about setting the matter in late May 2015, and 

17 I'm going to explain why. 

18 It's been my experience when I do 

19 summary judgement motions, that if I don't 

20 give myself about a two month window between 

21 the date of the oral argument and the date of 

22 the hearing, I'm short-cuttir:g everybody, 

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1 including myself. 

2 Essentially, I need some time to 

3 write the summary judgement order, and those 

4 are very time-consuming, as you might imagine, 

5 because they can be dispositive. 

6 In addition, I want to get it out 

7 to you before you have to start putting 

8 together all of your hearing materials, and 

9 so, if we have at least two months between the 

10 oral argument and the hearing, that should 

11 give me at least enough time to get that order 

12 out and you enough time, so that you don't 

13 have to do work that you don't need to do, if 

14 in fact, I grant the motion in full or in 

15 part. 

16 So, essentially, what I would do 

17 is set the witness -- exchange of exhibits and 

18 witness lists after the oral argument is done, 

19 and I'll also set the stipulations or if you 

20 have agreed motions in limine you want to do 

21 ahead of time. Far enough out after the 

22 telephone conference, so that you don't have 

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1 to do duplicative or unnecessary work. 

2 If you're willing to do that, then 

3 you can bump out your December 5, 2014 date or 

4 keep it the way it is. It just depends on 

5 what you think would work for you. 

6 So, Mr. Bennett, starting with 

7 you. What is your thought? 

8 MR. BENNETT: Your Honor, I think 

9 that based on your comments, pushing the 

10 December 5th date into January would make a 

11 tremendous amount of sense. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I don't want you 

13 to have to work when you're doing that. I 

14 mean, I don't want you to work over the 

15 holidays, but if we set, for example, the 

16 dispositive due date for-- I'm sorry, the due 

17 date for filing dispositive motions on January 

18 23, 2015, when do you think it would be 

19 reasonable and maintain a healthy boundary for 

20 your holidays, to have your discovery cut-off 

21 date, and I could suggest, for example, that 

22 you could push it out to say, December 15th 

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1 and then just have that time free and know 

2 that you're going to come back to the office 

3 and either write a summary -- a dispositive 

4 motion or not. 

5 MR. BENNETT: I think December 

6 15th is a good date, Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, what 

8 about you? 

9 MR. ALLEN: Yes, Judge, I would 

10 say no later than December 15th would be 

11 acceptable. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 

13 talk about -- Mr. Bennett, I'll start with 

14 you, will January 23rd, February 13th and 

15 February 27th, all in the year 2015 work for 

16 you, in terms of filing deadlines for 

17 dispositive motions, responses and replies? 

18 MR. BENNETT : I'm pulling up a 

19 calendar right now, and December 15th, Your 

20 Honor, is a Monday? 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: January 23rd. 

22 MR. BENNETT: January 23rd is a 

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1 Friday? 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. 

3 MR. BENNETT: The fourth Friday in 

4 the month, and that is the -- probably the 

5 third Friday after the holiday. That would 

6 work very well, I think. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, what about 

8 February 13th, which is three weeks beyond 

9 that, for the response to summary judgement or 

10 dispositive motions? 

11 MR. BENNETT: I would have no -- I 

12 think that that would be adequate time for the 

13 Government to go ahead and form any response 

14 that Respondent might choose to go ahead and 

15 prepare. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what about 

17 the 27th for any final reply, which is a two 

18 week gap? 

19 MR . BENNETT : And I think that 

20 would be an adequate one, as well. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen, 

22 how about you? Any concerns, in looking at 

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1 your calendar? 

2 MR. ALLEN: Judge, I am just 

3 looking at a calendar and I -- excuse me, off 

4 the top of my head, I don't recall if 

5 President's Day is a Federal holiday. I know 

6 it falls on the -- in between the February 

7 13th and February 27th date. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It is the --

9 MR. ALLEN: I don't know if anyone 

10 would lose a day. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It' s February 

12 16th, and so, you would lose a day. 

13 If you want to push that out until 

14 March, we could do that. You're talking about 

15 the reply date? 

16 MR. ALLEN: Correct, Your Honor. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What day the 

18 following week, do you think would be 

19 reasonable, because I know sometimes people 

20 take another day or two around a three-day 

21 weekend. 

22 MR. ALLEN: We are talking then 

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1 the first week of March, correct? 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. What 

3 day would you think would be reasonable for 

4 any reply? 

5 MR. ALLEN: March 3rd, which is a 

6 Tuesday, would -- I would say would provide 

7 enough time, Your Honor. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Bennett, is 

9 that acceptable to you, as well? 

10 MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am, 

11 absolutely. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so noted. 

13 Then let's talk about setting a telephone time 

14 for argument. 

15 Looking at the week of March 15, 

16 2015, Mr. Bennett, doyouhaveanyparticular 

17 black-outs in that week that I should know 

18 about? 

19 MR. BENNETT: None that I am aware 

20 of right now, Your Honor. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

22 MR. BENNETT: My kids are in 

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1 school in May -- or until May, so, I won't be 

2 traveling to go move them out or anything. 

3 That happens after finals in May. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

5 MR. BENNETT : But March, we're 

6 clear. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm sorry, I cut 

8 you off. 

9 MR. BENNETT : I'm sorry, Your 

10 Honor? 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Could you go 

12 ahead and say that again, please? 

13 MR. BENNETT: I have nothing that 

14 I'm aware of right now, that would interfere 

15 with a -- anything in the week of March 15th. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen, 

17 how about you? 

18 MR. ALLEN: I have all 

19 availability of March 15th, Your Honor. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen, 

21 staying with you, do you have a preference for 

22 morning or afternoon? We're talking about 90 

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1 minutes on your calendar. 

2 MR. ALLEN: Afternoon, Judge. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. 

4 Bennett, is that acceptable to you? 

5 MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 

7 talk about Thursday, March 19, 2015, and let's 

8 say 1:30 to 3:00p.m., EasternStandardTime, 

9 and I think both of you are on the east coast. 

10 So, that should work out beautifully. 

11 So, now, let's go into May and Mr. 

12 Bennett, let's start with you in terms of 

13 school schedules, because I don't want to 

14 interfere with that, if at all possible, and 

15 I know we also have a federal holiday the week 

16 of May 24th, and that would be on May 25th, 

17 2015 for Memorial Day. 

18 So, we're looking at scheduling 

19 three days in Orlando, Florida, and then for 

2 0 all of us, we have some travel time to 

21 consider as well. 

22 Do you want to look at the end of 

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1 May or do you want to look at the first week 

2 of June? What's your preference? 

3 MR. BENNETT: I don't know what 

4 the schools are using right now to pull the 

5 kids out. 

6 I do know from this year, that for 

7 example, my son is going to Loyola, was given 

8 24 hours to get out. 

9 So, if that becomes a hard and 

10 fast date, if Your Honor, wouldn't mind, I 

11 would suggest that we tentatively set it for 

12 that last week in May. Finals have got to be 

13 done well before then, I would think, and that 

14 will give us the maximum gives me the 

15 maximum flexibility. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well, I 

17 actually don't have enough time the week of 

18 May 25th, because of the holiday and what I'm 

19 doing. 

20 So, I can do it 

21 MR. BENNETT : The week of the 

22 18th? 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I 'm looking to 

2 see if that would work. The 18th? I could do 

3 it the week of May 17th or I could do it the 

4 week of June 1st, and we could make it 

5 tentative and then if something comes up, you 

6 know, and you can let us know, do you think 

7 you would be able to let us know fairly soon, 

8 Mr. Bennett? I don't want everyone to, you 

9 know, get all their witnesses excited and then 

10 find out that we have to change. 

11 MR. BENNETT : Yes, Ma'am. I'm 

12 trying to find out right now, what the 

13 schedule looks like. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You know 

15 what we could do, because I know you all have 

16 been on the phone for a while, we could choose 

17 one of these weeks and then Mr. Bennett, if 

18 you find out something different, you could 

19 talk to Mr. Allen and then call Mr. Smith, the 

20 attorney who assists me, and if we needed to 

21 tweak the trial date a little bit, we could 

22 probably do that within the next 30 days. 

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1 Would that work okay? 

2 MR. BENNETT: Well, I just found 

3 out that they don't have an exam schedule 

4 published yet for Spring 2015. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 

6 MR. BENNETT: So, that becomes 

7 slightly problematic. I know that this year, 

8 the exam schedule was -- wait a minute. Let 

9 me look at -- maybe I can get one here. 

10 So, I'd be-- May 2nd looks like11 - all right, so, it's going to be an early 

12 year. 

13 We can do it earlier in May than 

14 that last week, the week of the 18th would be 

15 fine. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, would 

17 that work for you? 

18 MR. ALLEN: The week of May 18th 

19 would work for us, Judge. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 

21 try for May 19th. That's the first day. That 

22 would be May 19th, 2015, and that's a Tuesday, 

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1 leaving Monday to be a travel day, if you need 

2 it, and we'll continue on May 20, 2015, and 

3 May 21, 2015, ending at 5:00p.m. If we need 

4 that third day, we have Friday the 22nd of May 

5 2015 as another travel day. 

6 Typically, Counsel, I usually 

7 start at 9:00a.m. and I go to 5:00p.m., with 

8 a one hour and 15 minute lunch break, and then 

9 I always take a break in the morning for about 

10 15 minutes and a break in the afternoon, so 

11 that you can count on those times. 

12 Whenever, possible, I do try and 

13 get a U.S. District Court Courtroom, so that 

14 we have as much space as possible, and also, 

15 whenever possible, I try and get counsel and 

16 chambers, as well. But sometimes, not quite 

17 as successful with that because space is such 

18 a premium now in the courthouses. 

19 Let's talk about, just for a 

20 moment, exchange of exhibits and list of 

21 witnesses. 

22 So, we're going to have our oral 

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1 argument on March 19, 2015, and I'm going to 

2 back-track from May 19th into April. 

3 How about if we set April 21, 2015 

4 for your due date for your witness list and 

5 exhibits? Would that work for you, Mr. 

6 Bennett? 

7 MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Allen? 

9 MR. ALLEN: Yes, that works, 

10 Judge. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and I would 

12 also set that same date, give you a chance to 

13 submit any written stipulations or agreed 

14 mot ions in limine, where you are narrowing the 

15 factual and legal issues, so that if you 

16 decide, for example, that there are certain 

17 underlying facts that no one is disputing and 

18 you just want to make sure that they're all 

19 agreed to and adopted by the Court, you can 

20 submit those by agreement ahead of time. 

21 Okay, let's talk about a couple 

22 other things. 

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1 I have no problem with your 

2 recommendation about the exhibits and how you 

3 want to mark them. That's great. 

4 I would simply also add that I do 

5 need to have you each provide an index list of 

6 your exhibits, so that I have one or two 

7 sheets in front of me, and hopefully, you 

8 would have the same for yourself, and I can 

9 keep track of what exhibits have been moved 

10 for admission, what exhibits have been ruled 

11 upon or not ruled upon, what exhibits were 

12 never mentioned and so forth. 

13 At the end of the hearing, if you 

14 have had exhibits that you brought with you 

15 that have not been moved for admission, I'll 

16 offer them back to you. If you don't want 

17 them, I'll simply put them in the recycle bin. 

18 Obviously, I shouldn't be taking 

19 or looking at exhibits that you have decided 

20 not to use. 

21 In terms of motions, and I'll send 

22 out an order that says all of this and a 

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1 little bit more, but you want to file your 

2 motions, if you have problems with discovery, 

3 as soon as possible. Always include a 

4 declaration, a 3-7 Declaration about trying to 

5 resolve the matter before bringing it to the 

6 Court's attention. 

7 I don't need to see any of your 

8 discovery exchange, unless it becomes an issue 

9 of contention and you're moving for relief, 

10 because of the discovery problem. 

11 I do also offer, if people want, a 

12 due date for disclosing retained or hired or 

13 expert witnesses. So, if you would like me to 

14 add in a deadline for a part for the 

15 parties to exchange those names on a specific 

16 date, I can do that. Otherwise, I will leave 

17 it up to you, to decide when to do it during 

18 your discovery flow. 

19 Mr. Bennett, any preference? 

20 MR. BENNETT: None for the Agency, 

21 Your Honor. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, any 

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1 preference? 

2 MR. ALLEN: No preference, Your 

3 Honor. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, why don't I 

5 give you a due date then, just to be on the 

6 safe side? This would be for either experts 

7 a party hires or experts that are within the 

8 FAA, that the FAA utilizes on a regular basis 

9 to provide expert testimony. 

10 Prior to December 15, 2014, when 

11 do you want to have that disclosure, and this 

12 would include the name of the witness, the 

13 resume of the person and their written report 

14 or statement. 

15 MR. BENNETT: Their statement of 

16 opinions, as to what they're going to testify 

17 to? 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. 

19 MR. BENNETT: The 15th is-- let's 

20 see, we're going to go ahead and set -- how 

21 about on the 15th when discovery closes? 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, typically, 

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1 people may want to have a deposition, take a 

2 deposition of a disclosed expert. So, you 

3 want to do it prior to December 15th, which is 

4 the deadline for completing your general 

5 discovery. 

6 MR. BENNETT : Jared, would you 

7 have any problem arranging for a deposition 

8 within two weeks of notification of that? 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I would 

10 simply note that if you want to consult with 

11 Counsel, I'd be happy to allow you to. 

12 Mr. Allen, would you answer that 

13 question, please? 

14 MR. ALLEN: Just given the time of 

15 year, YourHonor, itwouldconcernme, as far 

16 as scheduling depositions right around -- in 

17 the weeks following December 15th. 

18 So, I would agree with Your Honor, 

19 in that we might want to have a date that is 

20 perhaps several weeks before December 15th. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: May I make a 

22 suggestion to you? If you have that 

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l disclosure by say, October 22nd, you should 

2 have plenty of time, even with Thanksgiving 

3 and Veteran's holiday, to do a deposition if 

4 needed. 

5 Mr. Bennett, would that work for 

6 you? 

7 MR. BENNETT: Yes, Ma'am, and I 

8 apologize, I did not mean to overstep my 

9 bounds in asking the question directly of Mr. 

10 Allen. 

ll JUDGE SULLIVAN: No, I understand, 

12 it -- we're having a conversation and people 

13 forget. So, don't worry about that. 

14 Mr. Allen, any objection to 

15 October 22, 2014? 

16 MR. ALLEN: No objection, Your 

17 Honor. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I'll set 

19 that as a due date, as well. 

20 Now, I'll include in the order 

21 that I send out to you, notes about how to 

22 request modification of the order, if there is 

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1 a problem. I also have a section about 

2 attorney withdraw, so that it's clear that if 

3 an attorney wishes to withdraw, and obviously, 

4 this would be specifically to the Respondent's 

5 Counsel, how to go about doing that. 

6 Then hopefully, anything else that 

7 might come up, frequently asked questions, I 

8 try and address in the order, as well. 

9 Mr. Bennett, on behalf of your 

10 client, at this time, however, is there 

11 anything else that you need to ask or clarify, 

12 before we close today? 

13 MR. BENNETT: No, Your Honor. 

14 Thank you. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. 

16 Mr. Allen, on behalf of your client, anything 

17 you would need to clarify or ask about for 

18 your client? 

19 MR. ALLEN: Nothing further, 

2 0 Judge . Thank you . 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you 

22 both very much for your presence today and for 

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1 your work, in setting this up. 

2 I will send out an order, either 

3 today or tomorrow, at the very latest, and I 

4 look forward to talking to you in the new 

5 year, and with that, or earlier, if you call 

6 upon me. 

7 (Whereupon, the above-entitled 

8 matter went off the record at 11:20 a.m.) 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

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Page 39 

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Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

Washington DC 

Page 40 

www.nealrg ross.com 
41 

C E R T I F I C A T E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Baer Air, Inc. 

Before: US DOT/FAA 

Date: 07-09-14 

Place: Washington, DC 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

(202) 234-4433 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com