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 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY 

+ + + + + 

ENERGY CONSERVATION STANDARDS FOR 

COMMERCIAL CLOTHES WASHERS 

+ + + + + 

PUBLIC MEETING 

+ + + + + 

MONDAY 

SEPTEMBER 24, 2012 

+ + + + + 

The meeting was held in the 

Forrestal Building, Room 8E-089, 1000 

Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, D.C., 

at 9:00 a.m., Doug Brookman and James Raba, 

Facilitators, presiding. 

PRESENT: 

DOUG BROOKMAN, Facilitator, Pacific Solutions, 

Inc. 

JAMES RABA, Facilitator, Department of Energy 

BETSY KOHL, Department of Energy 

STEPHEN WITKOWSKI, Department of Energy 

ALSO PRESENT: 

BEN BARRINGTON, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 

LINCOLN BILLINGS, Intertek 

DONALD BRUNDAGE, Southern Company 

JENNIFER CLEARY, Association of Home Appliance 

Manufacturers 

ANDREW DeLASKI, Appliance Standards Awareness 

Project 

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CAMILLA DUNHAM WHITEHEAD, Lawrence Berkeley 

National Laboratory 

JULIA FARBER, UL LLC 

AMANDA GONZALEZ, Energy Solutions 

MAITHILI IYER, Lawrence Berkeley National 

Laboratory 

STEVE LEYBOURN, Association of Home Appliance 

Manufacturers 

TIM LONG, Lawrence Berkeley National 

Laboratory 

PHIL MANTHEI, Alliance Laundry Systems 

JOANNA MAUER, Appliance Standards Awareness 

Project 

MARK MENZER, Intertek 

RENATA MORTAZAVI, Natural Resources Canada 

CHUN CHUN NI, Lawrence Berkeley National 

Laboratory 

ED OSANN, Natural Resources Defense Council 

JUDITH REICH, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 

LOUIS STARR, Northwest Energy Efficiency 

Alliance 

TIMOTHY SUTHERLAND, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 

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 TABLE OF CONTENTS 

Welcome, Opening Remarks, and................4 

Agenda Review 

Rulemaking Introduction and.................16 

Background 

Regulatory History, Test Procedure.........17 

Issues, Rulemaking Process Overview 

Market and Technology Assessment,...........38 

Screening Analysis, and Engineering 

Analysis 

Manufacturer Impact Analysis................57 

Markups Analysis, Energy and Water Use.....67 

Analysis, Life-Cycle Cost and Payback 

Period Analysis, Shipments Analysis, 

National Impact Analysis, Consumer 

Subgroup Analysis, Utility Impact 

Analysis, Employer Impact Analysis, 

Emissions Analysis, and 

Regulatory Impact Analysis 

Other Issues and Comments, Closing.......122 

Remarks 

Adjourn 

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 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

(9:00 a.m.) 

MR. RABA: Okay, let's get started. 

Please take your seats. Welcome. Whether 

you're attending today's public meeting via in 

person or via the webinar, this is the U.S. 

Department of Energy's public meeting about 

energy conservation standards for commercial 

clothes washers. 

Today is Monday, September 24th, 

2012, here in the Forrestal Building in 

Washington, D.C. My name is Jim Raba with the 

Department of Energy. I will be acting as 

your facilitator at the outset, and then turn 

it over to Doug Brookman when he arrives. 

As facilitator, I'm your process 

custodian. My job is to ensure that we 

satisfy the purpose for the meeting, and in so 

doing anyone who wishes has an opportunity to 

speak. So good morning, good to see you all 

this morning, those present in the room, and 

good to hear from you, those present via the 

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webinar. 

Steve Witkowski, would you have any 

opening remarks? Please. 

MR. WITKOWSKI: No. I just want to 

thank you all for coming. We appreciate your 

participation, and as it says in the purpose 

of the meeting, this is for DOE to present its 

methodology for the standards rulemaking for 

commercial clothes washers, and this being a 

framework document meeting, we are here to get 

your input, either verbally or in writing and, 

you know, to ask for your participation. 

We have a great deal to cover 

today. This is a half a day meeting, and 

there's another meeting on dehumidifiers this 

afternoon. So I'm not going to say any more 

than welcome, and we'll get started. 

MR. RABA: Well, thank you, Steve. 

Steve, Steve Witkowski is your presiding 

officer for today. Traditionally, we start 

off by doing introductions around the room, 

and then followed by introductions from those 

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that are with us via the webinar. 

I'm going to start in a clockwise 

fashion to my left. Introduce yourself, 

please. Turn your microphone on before 

speaking. State your name and organization. 

Speak loud and clear, and then turn your 

microphone off when you finish speaking. 

MS. GONZALEZ: Hi. This is Amanda 

Gonzalez with Energy Solutions on behalf of 

the California Investor-Owned Utilities. 

MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary with 

the Association of Home Appliance 

Manufacturers. 

MR. MANTHEI: Phil Manthei, 

Alliance Laundry Systems. 

MR. BILLINGS: Lincoln Billings, 

Intertek Testing Services. 

MS. KOHL: Betsy Kohl, DOE General 

Counsel. 

MR. WITKOWSKI: You know who I am. 

MR. RABA: That was Steve 

Witkowski, DOE. In the back please. Go to a 

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microphone. There's one behind you there, the 

stand up mic, remote. 

MR. LONG: Hi. Tim Long from LBNL. 

MR. RABA: Okay. Again, please 

introduce yourselves. State your name loud 

and clear and the organization. 

MS. NI: Chun Chun Ni from LBNL as 

well. 

MS. REICH: I'm Judith Reich from 

Navigant. 

MR. BARRINGTON: I'm Ben Barrington 

from Navigant. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Timothy Sutherland 

from Navigant. 

MS. IYER: Maithili Iyer from LBNL. 

MS. DUNHAM WHITEHEAD: Camilla 

Dunham Whitehead, LBNL. 

MR. RABA: Well, thank you. We're 

going to do the same introductions, again 

likewise via the webcast. Again, speak --

state your name and organization, speak loud 

and clear, and when you're finished, please 

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place your telephone on mute when you're 

finished speaking. 

This will help here in the room to 

reduce audio feedback that can occur between 

the speakers and the microphones here in the 

room. So again, please those participating 

via webinar, please introduce yourselves, name 

and organization. You can turn off mute 

please, if you're on the -- calling by 

telephone. 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay, nothing heard. If 

they have a queue from the sound stage here, 

if someone would like to speak via the 

webinar, please let us know. Raise your hand 

and queue it up. I'll get back, we'll do more 

introductions, around the room. Thank you. 

Two ways for the folks participating remotely 

to provide questions and comments. 

One is via telephone. Indicate 

that you would like to provide a question or 

comment by raising your hand. And in the 

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GoToMeeting software, the moderator will be 

notified that your hand is raised, and once 

called upon, state your name and organization. 

Speak loud and clear. 

Also, via the GoToMeeting, use the 

question window in GoToMeeting to submit a 

question to be relayed to the moderator, and 

note that if it's a technical question of some 

length, it's best to use this function to help 

us understand clearly what your comments or 

thoughts are. 

One more thing. We have another 

guest here this morning. Please again turn 

your microphone on. State your name loud and 

clear, and your organization represented. 

MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer with the 

Appliance Standards Awareness Project. 

MR. RABA: Okay, thank you and 

welcome. So thank you all for being here this 

morning. As part of our going over our 

overview of the meeting today, there's some 

things here we'd like to call our norms. 

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These have been, come over the years as 

something that's kind of reliable for us. 

In my previous life, I would call 

these rules of engagement, but here they're 

norms. First, please listen as an ally. Use 

short, succinct statements to keep to the 

point. Hold sidebar conversations outside the 

room; focus on issues, not personalities. 

One person speak at a time. Raise 

your hand to be recognized, and state your 

name for the record. And cell phones, please 

set them to silent or vibrate mode. Any 

questions so far? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay. Some housekeeping 

items. You've all been given a visitor's 

badge. Please display that in full view above 

the waist so the security can see you. 

Emergency exits, each end of the passageway 

there are stairwells. Go all the way down to 

the first floor. Ground level will be under 

the building, first floor and exit first 

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floor. 

We had one situation we did have to 

evacuate, but the point is think about 

emergency exits if the elevators are not 

working. Likewise, restrooms are either under 

the passageways, either direction. Places to 

eat for a coffee break or lunch, if you're 

going to stay that long. 

We have a cafeteria, a small snack 

bar directly below us on the ground level 

floor. Take the elevators, go straight down. 

It's right directly below us, and also later 

on if you happen to want to stay for lunch, 

the meeting's over, something like that, we 

have a cafeteria at the far end of the 

building, the west building. You can go down 

to the ground floor again and walk in the long 

passageway just past the auditorium and up the 

escalator there and follow the crowd. 

If you do leave the building, you 

must come back through security and 

participate with all the checks and things 

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like that. So if you want to go to the other 

building, go down underground and follow the 

rest of the people there, okay. 

Evaluation forms. At the end of 

today's public meeting, we'll be handing out 

these evaluation forms. We need comments from 

you as to how you think the meeting went, 

okay, some constructive comments there. 

And upon entry, you received a 

receipt with your laptop computer. DB 

Security gave it to you and they'll be looking 

for that upon exit to check the receipt and 

match the computer, and you'll be good to go. 

If you've not already done so, 

please leave your business card with Brenda, 

so we can have a record of who's here and we 

can share that too. Now we have some more 

people that have come in the room. Please 

welcome to the public meeting for commercial 

clothes washers here at DOE. 

Take your seats, please, around the 

table. There's plenty of room here. As you 

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come in the room, please introduce yourself, 

your organization. Turn your microphone on 

and speak clearly and loudly. Your name and 

organization, please sir. 

MR. MENZER: Hi. I'm Mark Menzer 

with Intertek Labs. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: Don Brundage, 

Southern Company, electric utility. 

MR. RABA: Sir? 

MR. OSANN: Ed Osann with the 

Natural Resources Defense Council. 

MR. RABA: And we have one more 

coming in. We have one in the back there. 

Use the stand up microphone please sir and 

introduce yourself. 

MR. LEYBOURN: Steve Leybourn. 

Steve Leybourn, Association of Home Appliance 

Manufacturers. 

MR. RABA: Okay, and again, please 

turn your microphone on. State your name and 

organization clearly. 

MS. STARR: Louis Starr, Northwest 

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Energy Efficiency Alliance. 

MR. RABA: Did you get that? Okay. 

Thank you very much. Now turn your 

microphones off so we can get started then 

too. Okay. So you all received a packet of 

information when you came in the door. I'm 

referring to this packet right here. 

It contains an agenda, a slide 

deck, which we're presenting from today, and 

which is the basis for discussion, and a copy 

of the Federal Register notice that announced 

the meeting. 

We'll start briefly by going over 

the agenda today, the purpose of today's 

meeting is to present DOE's methodology for 

conducting energy conservation standards 

rulemaking for commercial clothes washers. 

DOE will seek input from you and others about 

the planned methodologies, assumptions, and 

data sources. After each presentation, we'll 

entertain comments and discussion. 

We'll take a break around 10:30, a 

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short break there, and following that we'll 

continue with presentations and more comments. 

We're scheduled to finish today at 12:00 noon, 

so are there any comments or questions about 

today's agenda? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay. So please keep 

the focus up here. Turn your cell phones to 

silent mode, if you would please, and limit 

sidebar conversations. Is there anyone now 

who wishes to make an opening statement, a 

brief opening statement? 

None seeing at this time, note that 

throughout today's presentation, 

presentations, there will be other slides like 

this one to cue for issues. We'd like 

comments and feedback on. So you see this 

come up from time to time at the appropriate 

times, okay. 

And Steve Witkowski, would you care 

to make rulemaking introductions. Okay, good 

to go. 

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 MR. WITKOWSKI: I should stress, 

though, that the information for submitting 

comments is here in your data sheet as well as 

on line. So that's what we're looking for. 

We hope you participate in this entire 

rulemaking process. Thank you. 

MR. RABA: Thank you. Again, we're 

here to listen to you, and we want your data, 

feedback and comments as well. So a lot to 

cover. Let's get started. Our first 

presenter will be Tim Sutherland from Navigant 

Consulting. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Test, there we go. 

Okay. I'll reintroduce myself. Tim 

Sutherland from Navigant. We know why we're 

here, so I'll continue. Throughout today's 

presentation, in specific areas DOE solicits 

comment. We'll present those in green boxes 

like this. 

The comment numbers correspond to 

the comment numbers that appear in the 

framework document, and as always, DOE 

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welcomes comment on the specific issues 

identified, as well as any other issues that 

anyone may wish to comment on. 

And here are the instructions for 

submitting written comments after today's 

meeting. The key date to note is that the 

comment period ends October 12th. So let's 

briefly review the regulatory history for 

commercial clothes washers. 

The Energy Policy Act of 2005, 

which we'll abbreviate as EPACT, that amended 

the Energy Policy and Conservation Act of 

1975, or EPCA, to include commercial clothes 

washers as a covered product. EPACT 

established the first energy conservation 

standards, and in addition, it required DOE to 

complete two rulemaking cycles to determine 

whether to further amend those standards. 

The first final rule was issued by 

DOE December 18th, 2009. That satisfied the 

first rulemaking cycle. The second final rule 

is required by January 1st, 2015, and the 

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current rulemaking will satisfy that second 

requirement. 

EPACT 2005 also provided the 

definition for commercial clothes washers, in 

terms of what's considered a covered product. 

So I won't read through this entire 

definition, but the key point here is we're 

dealing with soft-mount clothes washers. 

For horizontal access or frontloading, the capacity limit is 3.5 cubic feet. 

For vertical access or top-loading, the 

capacity limit is 4.0 cubic feet, and these 

are primarily washers that are found in multifamily housing, common laundry areas or coin 

laundries or laundromats. 

In a brief look at the actual 

standards, so the first table there shows the 

standards that were established by EPACT 2005. 

Modified Energy Factor or MEF of 1.26, and 

that's a minimum, and a Water Factor or WF of 

9.5, and that is a maximum. 

Those are the current standards. 

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The first DOE rulemaking cycle amended these 

standards by product class. It introduced 

separate standards for top-loading clothes 

washers and front-loading clothes washers, 

which are shown in the second table. 

For top-loaders, the standard will 

be 1.6 MEF, 8.5 Water Factor, and for frontloaders, the standard will be 2.0 MEF, 5.5 

Water Factor, and again, those become 

effective January 8th, 2013. 

I'll just pause to see if there are 

any questions on anything we've covered so 

far. Okay. Let's quickly review some of the 

test procedure issues that we, that are 

relevant to this current rulemaking. 

EPCA requires commercial clothes 

washers to use the same test procedure as 

residential clothes washers, and on March 7th 

of this year, DOE published a final rule 

amending its procedures for residential 

clothes washers. 

That final rule included minor 

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amendments to Appendix J-1, which is the test 

procedure that is currently effective. It 

also introduced a new test procedure at 

Appendix J-2, which we'll discuss over the 

next couple of slides. 

Appendix J-2 retains -- retains 

calculations for the MEF and Water Factor 

metrics. It also establishes two new metrics, 

shown in this green box. The first is 

Integrated Modified Energy Factor or IMEF, 

which incorporates stand-by power measurement. 

The second is Integrated Water 

Factor or IWF, which incorporates water 

consumption from all the wash temperatures 

included in the energy test cycle, rather than 

just the cold wash cold rinse, which is what 

Water Factor is based on. 

Appendix J-2 will be required for 

use beginning March 7th, 2015, and that 

applies to both residential clothes washers 

and commercial clothes washers. This is 

important to note because the current clothes 

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washer standards and the amended standards 

that will be effective at that time are based 

on MEF and Water Factor, as measured according 

to Appendix J-1. 

And MEF and Water Factor, as 

measured according to Appendix J-1, are not 

equivalent to MEF and Water Factor, as 

measured according to Appendix J-2. So to 

deal with this, DOE is considering developing 

correction factors for translating the MEF and 

Water Factor values measured under Appendix J1 into their equivalent Appendix J-2 values. 

Those correction factors would 

apply beginning March 7th, 2015, to determine 

compliance with the 2013 standard levels, and 

they would remain effective until the date of 

any new standards that may arise from the 

current rulemaking. 

Just another slide to visually show 

the timelines that we're talking about. So on 

the top, we show the residential clothes 

washers, which are using Appendix J-1 until 

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March of 2015, switching over to Appendix J-2. 

In addition, they'll be using the IMEF and IWF 

metrics at that point. 

On the bottom, we show the 

commercial clothes washer timeline, using 

Appendix J-1 until March of 2015, at which 

point, as we just discussed, switching over to 

Appendix J-2, still based on MEF and Water 

Factor, but using the conversion factors to be 

developed. 

And then from 2018 onwards, that 

will be determined during the course of this 

rulemaking. Whether the standards remain in 

terms of MEF or IMEF and Water Factor or 

Integrated Water Factor. 

So let's pause here for comments. 

Item 1-1, DOE invites comments on developing 

correction factors for translating the 

Appendix J-1 MEF and Water Factor values into 

their equivalent Appendix J-2 values, that 

would apply beginning March 7th, 2015, at 

which time commercial clothes washer 

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manufacturers will be required to use Appendix 

J-2. DOE also welcomes any data on the 

appropriate correction factors. 

MR. RABA: We have two comments. 

Go ahead, please, you're first. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: Don Brundage, 

Southern Company. Not specifically to this 

correction factor, but the way I understand 

the washer test procedure, a large portion of 

the energy savings is the reduced drying time 

from reduced water in the clothes. 

Has there been any modeling or 

research to see whether, to validate the 

reduced drying time? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: I'm not sure 

exactly what you mean by "reduced drying 

time." In the test procedure, one of the 

components of energy consumption is an 

approximation of the dryer energy, and that 

derives from a measurement of the remaining 

moisture content. 

So in Appendix J-2, that equation 

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has been changed. I'm not aware of any 

studies or anything that have validated that 

portion of the equation, but --

MR. BRUNDAGE: The reason I'm 

asking was I was at an Electric Power Research 

Institute meeting last week, and they were 

telling me about some of their ongoing 

research, and they've done some metering on 

residential washers and dryers in real live 

situations. 

They said they weren't, they hadn't 

made it through all their internal 

validations. They weren't ready to release 

data, but they said their findings were that 

there was very little energy savings from 

reduced moisture content, because people still 

dried them the same way, even if they came out 

of the washer with less water in them. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: I strongly 

encouraged them to submit that before your 

comment deadline, but I don't have any hard 

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data. But they had told me they did not find 

much energy savings on dryer, on the dryer 

side. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay, thank you. 

As always, DOE welcomes whatever data may be 

out there. So we strongly welcome submission 

of that data. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: Yeah. 

MR. RABA: I saw a hand over here 

first and then over there second. 

MR. MANTHEI: Phil Manthei, 

Alliance Laundry Systems. I think this one 

just doesn't pass the common sense test. 

DOE's proposing to use a lot of resources and 

time to produce correction factors which could 

be, have an error. 

I think the requirement is that any 

existing model that's in production, when 

there's a standard or a test procedure change, 

still has to be valid after the test 

procedure. 

Why can't DOE general counsel look 

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at a way to continue to use Appendix J-1 for 

three more years, and not waste resources for 

doing something that's really not necessary? 

MS. KOHL: So this is Betsy Kohl 

with DOE General Counsel's office. There's a 

statutory requirement that the test procedure 

for commercial clothes washers be the same as 

the test procedure for residential clothes 

washers, and the requirement for compliance 

with that residential clothes washer test 

procedure is keyed off of the new standards, 

and that's March 7th, 2015. 

So we're -- compliance with the 

statute is what's driving this. But we 

welcome comment obviously on what those 

correction factors might be. 

MR. RABA: Thank you, Phil. Yes, 

over here for Ed on this side too. 

MR. OSANN: Yes. This is Ed Osann 

with NRDC. Just to follow up on the first 

point that was made, we think it's important 

to consider the potential energy savings, the 

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validity of the potential energy savings 

derived from the test procedure in the 

commercial washer context. 

The savings from reduced moisture 

content are most effectively captured with a 

dryer with, that is sensor operated, and in 

the commercial setting, it is more common 

perhaps than in the residential setting, for 

dryers to be operated on a time dry basis. 

We think it would be appropriate 

for DOE to collect data on the existing stock 

of dryers in the commercial setting, and the 

availability of a sensor dry feature in 

today's stock of commercial dryers. 

MR. RABA: Thank you. On the right 

please, from AHAM. Your name please? 

MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. Can 

you just expand a little bit on how you are 

thinking about doing these correction factors? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: I think probably a 

similar process that was used for residential, 

where units that are currently available on 

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the market would be tested to both test 

procedures, and the correlation of Appendix J1 results to Appendix J-2 results, that would 

be the basis for their correction factors. 

MS. CLEARY: And would you be using 

minimally compliant units or a mixture? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: I don't think 

that's been decided yet. 

MS. KOHL: Hi, this is Betsy Kohl 

at DOE OGC. We're aware of the statutory 

provisions and the reference to minimally 

compliant, so we'll be taking that into 

account when we develop the correction 

factors. 

questions? 

audience. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Thanks, Betsy. 

MR. RABA: Any other comments or 

Anything from our webinar 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay, none assuming. 

Proceed with another one. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay, thank you. 

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Okay. So here are two comments related to the 

use of new metrics. 

When using Appendix J-2, or this is 

with regards to using Appendix J-2, DOE 

invites comment on whether to establish new 

energy efficiency standards for commercial 

clothes washers, based on the new IMEF metric, 

which would incorporate standby and off mode, 

and Item 1-3, DOE invites comment on whether 

to establish new water efficiency standards 

based on the new IWF metric, which would 

incorporate water consumption from all the 

temperature cycles included as part of the 

energy test cycle. 

MR. RABA: Yes, comment or 

question? State your name and organization. 

MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 

On Item 1-2, I was wondering if DOE is 

considering doing a consumer use study, to 

determine how the usage for inactive versus 

standby might be different in the commercial 

context versus the residential context? 

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 MR. SUTHERLAND: I'm not aware of 

any plans for consumer usage studies, but DOE 

does plan to conduct standby power testing as 

part of its investigation into the possibility 

of using the new metric. 

MS. CLEARY: I just have a followup question, Jen Cleary. 

MR. RABA: Sure, go ahead. 

MS. CLEARY: Do you also anticipate 

that the definition of standby might be the 

same or different for commercial? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: That will be one 

of the issues under investigation during this 

rulemaking. 

MR. RABA: As we go through the 

comments and the questions, again, I would 

like to hear from you with your written 

comments as well. It would be very helpful. 

Thank you. Anybody else here in the room? 

Remotely? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay. Let's go ahead, 

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please. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay. One 

additional note. There may be other test 

procedure issues that crop up during the 

course of this rulemaking. So DOE will 

consider any other test procedure issues 

relating to the use of Appendix J-2 throughout 

this rulemaking for commercial clothes 

washers. 

Okay. We have just a few slides 

here to describe the overall rulemaking 

process. For energy conservation standards 

rulemaking, new or amended standards must be 

designed to achieve the maximum improvement in 

efficiency that is technologically feasible 

and economically justified, and DOE performs a 

variety of analyses to make that 

determination. 

This table shows the analyses that 

DOE conducts to determine technological 

feasibility, and we'll discuss each of these 

analyses in greater detail throughout today's 

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presentation. 

The second table shows the seven 

factors that DOE must consider, to determine 

whether new or amended standards are 

economically justified, and the seven factors 

required by EPCA are shown on the left, and 

the corresponding analyses that DOE conducts 

are shown on the right. Again, we'll discuss 

each of these analyses in more detail 

throughout today's presentation. 

Here's an overall look at the 

schedule for this rulemaking. Beginning with 

the framework, which was published on August 

13th of 2012. 

The next step will be the NOPR, 

which is the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, 

with a target publishing date of January 31st, 

2014, and the final rule target date is 

December 31st, 2014. As shown on the 

timeline, the 2013 standards will become 

effective January 8th, 2013. 

DOE plans to leverage the analyses 

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that were performed during the previous 

commercial clothes washer rulemaking, which 

wrapped up at the end of 2009, beginning of 

2010, leverage those analyses to allow DOE to 

proceed directly to the NOPR stage, following 

the framework stage. 

Here's a quick look at the various 

analyses that DOE will perform during the NOPR 

period. When DOE publishes the NOPR, that 

will be a preliminary determination of whether 

standards should be amended, and if so, the 

proposed new levels. The results of the NOPR 

will be presented in a technical support 

document or TSD, and there will be a public 

meeting and comment period following 

publication. 

After that, DOE will revise its 

NOPR analyses as necessary, based on public 

comments. Also, there will be consideration 

of the Department of Justice determination of 

any impacts on market competition. 

Finally, the final rule will 

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provide DOE's determination of whether 

standards should be amended, and if so, the 

new standard levels. The final rule will also 

provide the compliance date of any new 

standards, and the final rule will have its 

own separate technical support document. 

So any questions on the overall 

process, before we continue discussing the 

individual NOPR analyses? 

MR. RABA: Go ahead, please. 

MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 

I was just wondering why DOE decided not to do 

an ANOPR. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: The ANOPR or the 

preliminary analysis, DOE felt that because 

the prior rulemaking wrapped up at the 

beginning of 2010, that DOE would be able to 

leverage a lot of the analysis that was 

performed during that period, which would 

allow it to effectively shorten the analysis 

period for this rulemaking. So DOE felt that 

that would allow it to go straight to the 

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NOPR. 

MR. RABA: Other questions, 

comments? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Before we proceed, I saw 

a couple of folks arrive, albeit late. Those 

who just arrived recently, please state your 

name with the microphone over there, remote 

microphone, and your organization represented. 

MR. DeLASKI: Andrew DeLaski, 

Appliance Standards Awareness Project. 

MS. FARBER: Julia Farber with UL. 

MR. RABA: Anyone else, please, 

that slipped in? Okay. Go ahead. Okay. 

Wait, wait. 

MS. GONZALEZ: I actually have a 

question. 

MR. RABA: Name and organization? 

MS. GONZALEZ: Yes. This is Amanda 

Gonzalez on behalf of the California IOUs. 

When you said that DOE would consider any 

other issues with the test procedure for 

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commercial clothes washers, does that mean 

that DOE will consider amending them for the 

commercial clothes washer rulemaking? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: DOE, statutorily, 

commercial clothes washers are required to use 

the residential test procedure. But DOE will 

investigate any test procedure issues that 

need to be investigated. Well, Betsy, do you 

have any -- okay. 

MR. RABA: Thank you. Others, 

please? Go ahead. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: Don Brundage, 

Southern Company. While you have to use the 

same test procedure, you could do something 

like make assumptions that for commercial, 

they have to make assumptions about percentage 

in the market of things like water sensors and 

the dryers and that submarket. 

There's ways to do it that could 

address some of these issues on commercial 

while using the same test procedure. 

MR. WITKOWSKI: Okay. In the back 

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there please, Andrew DeLaski? 

MR. DeLASKI: I have follow-up. 

This is Andrew DeLaski. I just want to follow 

up on Don's point. 

It just strikes me, just thinking 

about this, that there's no reason why the 

residential clothes washer test method might 

not have a commercial section, just to make 

that sort of explicit, that you could have a 

commercial section of a residential clothes 

washer test method, and it may be a way around 

this. 

If it is a problem, it might be a 

way to deal with it. I see Betsy smiling, 

thinking this is maybe a little too creative 

for her. But it's something to think about. 

MS. KOHL: Thanks very much. This 

is Betsy Kohl with DOE OGC. 

MR. RABA: Okay, great. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Great. We're 

right on time, so this is good. Okay. So 

we're going to dive into the individual 

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analyses that DOE will be conducting in 

development of the NOPR. 

First up is the market and 

technology assessment. The purpose of this 

analysis is to characterize the overall 

commercial clothes washer industry and the 

market. 

As part of this analysis, DOE will 

gather historical shipments and other relevant 

data, and as part of the technology 

assessment, DOE will identify technology 

options that exist for improving energy 

efficiency. 

First, request for comment here, 

Item 3-1. DOE requests information that would 

contribute to the market assessment for 

commercial clothes washers, and this includes 

information on current product features and 

efficiencies, product feature and efficiency 

trends, and historical product shipments and 

prices. 

MR. RABA: Wait. Before we 

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proceed, I have two hands raised, one 

remotely, and then one here in the room. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Oh. 

MR. RABA: Remotely, we have Renata 

Mortazavi hand raised. Yes, go ahead please. 

Is the -- are we hearing anything from the 

audio? Oh my. 

MS. MORTAZAVI: Hello. Can you 

hear me now? 

MR. RABA: Yes, thank you. 

Welcome. 

MS. MORTAZAVI: Hi. Oh my gosh. 

It saves me typing. I just want --

MR. RABA: Wait, wait, stop. 

Please say your name for the record and the 

organization you represent? 

MS. MORTAZAVI: Yes. It's Renata 

Mortazavi from Office of Energy Efficiency, 

Natural Resources Canada. I just want to make 

a quick comment to the last comment actually, 

around the test procedure difference for the 

residential. 

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 I don't see why do we have to have 

two different test procedures for commercial 

clothes washers, because they are the same 

units. So they will be testing the same way 

as the residential dryer. That's it. 

MR. RABA: Renata, this is Jim 

Raba, facilitator. Would you please state 

again a little more slowly? The audio's not 

that great here. No. I can hear your 

enthusiasm, but the audio's not that great, 

and so just do it again, please. 

MS. MORTAZAVI: Because somebody 

mentioned that you have to have two different 

test procedures for the commercial style 

clothes washers. I want to know the reason 

why we have to develop two different test 

procedures for commercial clothes washers? 

They are the same unit, right? But 

it's the same with residential machine, right? 

So we don't really need to have, worry about 

separate test procedure for clothes washer for 

a commercial clothes washer. 

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 MR. RABA: Okay. We'll note that 

for the record, thank you. Over here, please. 

Phil Manthei. 

MR. MANTHEI: I'm sorry. Oh. 

MR. RABA: Your name and 

organization? 

MR. MANTHEI: Phil Manthei, 

Alliance Laundry Systems. For the request for 

comment on the slide up there, obviously the 

big issue right now is of course that the 

products for the new standard, that it takes 

effect on January 8th, 2013, are not in the 

marketplace yet. 

It's very difficult for DOE or 

anyone, probably, to make the assessment as 

to, you know, how that impacts and what the 

market will be like, until later on in 2013, 

early 2014. 

And then I guess I'll also address 

Renata's question. Yes, there are some 

differences. Yes, they are very similar. The 

basic construction of a commercial clothes 

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washer in this rulemaking is very similar to a 

residential. 

However, there are issues, as we 

just talked about, possibly regarding such 

things as the standby power and how those 

usage factors for the standby power would be, 

would be addressed for commercial, because 

they are probably going to be different. 

MR. RABA: Thank you. Others? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay. 

MR. OSANN: Question. 

MR. RABA: Oh sir. Your name and 

organization, please. 

MR. OSANN: Ed Osann with NRDC. 

This request for comment includes historic 

product shipments and prices. There was, I 

think, significant attention to shipments in 

the last rulemaking, and noting a trend for --

a downward, a downward trend in unit 

shipments. 

That may or may not have 

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Page 43 

stabilized, and I'm wondering whether DOE can 

provide an indication of what elements of the 

prior analyses you're intending to repurpose 

for this rulemaking, compared with what 

analyses that will be done anew. 

It's one thing to say you've got 

analyses that were done for the 2010 rule; but 

how much of that, what are the components that 

you're actually going to be reusing, and what 

about new inputs to those components? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Well, for the 

market and technology assessment, clearly DOE 

will be seeking to supplement the prior 

analysis with more recent data on shipments 

from 2009, 2010, onwards. So that data, of 

course, would be updated with more recent 

data. 

Some of the information on the 

technology itself, product features, 

efficiency features, much of that information 

will probably, DOE will probably be able to 

carry over. 

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Page 44

 But it will really be a case-bycase basis, in terms of information that DOE's 

able to reference from the last rulemaking, 

versus information that needs to be reassessed 

for this rulemaking. Any other questions? 

Okay. A quick mention of product 

classes. During the last rulemaking, DOE 

established two separate product classes based 

on location of access, top-loading and frontloading, and DOE is considering retaining 

these two product classes for the current 

rulemaking. 

So a request for comment on this 

topic. DOE seeks comment on the merits of 

retaining two product classes, based on 

location of access, top-loading and frontloading. 

MR. RABA: Go ahead. 

MR. OSANN: Ed Osann for NRDC. We 

recommend that DOE revisit the product class 

determinations that were made for the 2010 

rule. 

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 At that time, prior to that time, 

there was a single product category in the 

initial statutory authorization for efficiency 

standards for commercial clothes washers, and 

in the 2010 rule, a separation of those 

classes was made, based upon assumed customer 

utility, deriving from shorter cycle times for 

top-loaders versus front-loaders. 

This was based largely on a 

Consumer Reports assessment that presented 

cycle times for front-loaders in the range of 

70 to 110 minutes, or something along those 

lines. Whether or not that was ever apt for -

- an apt characterization of cycle times for 

commercial front-loaders, it certainly doesn't 

appear to hold true today. 

The products in the market that 

have front-loaders that have cycle times in 

the range of 30 minutes, from several 

manufacturers. These front-loaders are 

performing in a time, in the time frame that 

is comparable to top-loaders. 

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 So we think this bears a thorough 

reexamination and consideration of a single 

product class. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Thank you. 

MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary with 

AHAM. We would disagree respectfully with 

that comment. We think that the product class 

separation should remain the same, and DOE got 

that analysis correct in the last rulemaking. 

MR. RABA: We certainly invite your 

written comments from DOE's view also, both 

sides. Anybody else in the room? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay, go ahead. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay, and to wrap 

up this section, a discussion of the 

technology assessment portion. DOE will 

consider technology options that it considered 

during the previous rulemaking. A subset of 

those are shown here, plus any new available 

technologies that may be available. 

So DOE seeks -- Item 3-3, DOE seeks 

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comments on whether any of the technologies 

listed in the table should be removed from 

consideration, or whether any other 

technologies not listed in the table should be 

added for consideration. I'll go back to that 

table if there are any comments on that. 

(No response.) 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay. We'll move 

along to the screening --

MR. RABA: One comment. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Oh sorry, go 

ahead. 

MR. OSANN: We'd recommend that DOE 

consider a feature that might be characterized 

as cycle-based pricing. 

It's a combination of the controls 

in the machine and the coin box or fee 

collection system that will allow for 

differentiation based upon water temperature 

selection, so the customers actually have an 

incentive to go for a warm or cold water wash. 

This is a feature that's offered by 

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more than one manufacturer today. We may loop 

back and find there's a test procedure issue 

in how to effectively characterize or capture 

the energy savings. But it is a feature. 

It's in the market now. It has a 

potential to save perhaps a significant amount 

of energy, and we think it ought to be 

assessed in the technology assessment. 

MR. RABA: Thank you. That comment 

was from Ed Osann of the Natural Resources 

Defense Council. Other comments or questions? 

(No response.) 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Great, thank you. 

MR. RABA: All right. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay. So we'll 

move along to the screening analysis. The 

purpose of the screening analysis is to screen 

out technology options that DOE will not 

consider during this rulemaking, and there are 

four specific criteria that DOE uses. 

The first is technological 

feasibility. The second is the practicability 

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Page 49 

to manufacture, install and service that 

technology. The third is whether that 

technology has any adverse impacts on product 

utility or availability, and the fourth is 

whether that technology has any adverse 

impacts on health or safety. 

So Item 4-1 seeks comment on 

whether any of the technologies listed in that 

table should be removed from consideration, 

based on any of these screening criteria, and 

if so, please provide specific details 

regarding the specific screening criteria that 

would preclude consideration 

technology option. 

MR. RABA: Thoughts? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Go ahead. 

of that 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Okay. So we'll 

move along to the engineering analysis. The 

purpose of the engineering analysis is to 

determine the relationship between 

manufacturer cost and energy efficiency. 

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 Part of that is defining the 

different efficiency levels on the market. So 

these two tables show the preliminary 

efficiency levels for consideration during 

this rulemaking. 

For top-loading commercial clothes 

washers, DOE is unaware of any top-loading 

washers currently on the market that exceed 

the January 2013 standard levels. 

So the baseline efficiency level 

for top-loaders is defined as the 2013 DOE 

standard of 1.6 MEF and 8.5 Water Factor. For 

front-loaders, DOE has the four efficiency 

levels defined here. Again, the baseline is 

defined as the 2013 DOE standard of 2.0 MEF, 

5.5 Water Factor. 

Level 1 and Level 2 are based on 

the Consortium for Energy Efficiency tier 

levels. So Level 1 corresponds to CEE Tier 2 

of 2.2 MEF, 4.5 Water Factor. Level 2 

corresponds to CEE Tier 3, which is 2.4 MEF, 

4.0 Water Factor, and Level 3 represents the 

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Page 51 

maximum available efficiency currently on the 

market, of 2.6 MEF and 3.7 Water Factor. 

We have, I believe, four requests 

for comment on these efficiency levels. So 

let me read through all four, and then I'll go 

back to that table and we can, we'll take 

comments. 

So the first, Item 5-1, seeks input 

on whether the January 2013 standard levels 

are appropriate for characterizing the 

baseline efficiency levels for both products, 

product classes. 

Item 5-2, DOE seeks input on 

whether any higher efficiency levels should be 

considered for top-loading washers. If so, 

the basis for such consideration. Item 5-3, 

DOE seeks input on the appropriateness of the 

higher efficiency levels that have been 

identified for front-loading washers, and Item 

5-4, DOE seeks input on the appropriate 

maximum technologically feasible energy 

efficiency levels, and the basis for why those 

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should be selected. 

So I'll go back to the table 

showing the efficiency levels if you have any 

comments. 

MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 

I just have a question. I think in the 

framework document, DOE stated that it will 

use Appendix J-1 for the engineering analysis, 

but use J-2 for the energy and water use 

analysis. Can you just explain why that would 

be? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: I'm not familiar 

with exactly what you're referring to, but 

DOE's intention is to use Appendix J-2 for the 

purpose of performing the analysis and 

establishing the new standards. DOE will be 

using Appendix J-1, as we discussed earlier, 

to develop correction factors if it decides to 

do that. So it will really be a combination 

of both. 

MS. CLEARY: Just so I understand 

what you said, this is Jen Cleary following 

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up. The only reason you think you would use 

J-1 would be to develop the correction factor. 

So like as a basis for comparison, and there 

wouldn't be any other --

MR. SUTHERLAND: Well, I don't want 

to say that there wouldn't be any other 

purpose. That would be the primary purpose 

for using it. 

MS. CLEARY: Okay. What else might 

it be used for? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Well, to be 

determined. 

MS. CLEARY: Okay. 

MR. RABA: Further questions, 

comments? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Okay. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Brief description 

here of DOE's approach for determining the 

cost efficiency relationship. DOE uses a 

combination of two approaches: The efficiency 

level approach and the design option approach. 

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The efficiency level approach, for that 

approach, DOE solicits industry-aggregated 

incremental costs for achieving each higher 

efficiency level. 

As part of the design option 

approach, DOE performs reverse engineering 

teardowns to validate the cost efficiency 

relationships obtained using the efficiency 

level approach. Just a note on proprietary 

designs. Those will only be considered if 

they do not present a unique path to a given 

efficiency level. 

So DOE requests feedback on the use 

of the efficiency level approach, to determine 

the cost efficiency relationship, supplemented 

as needed by a design option approach. Item 

5-6, are there any proprietary designs or 

technologies of which DOE should be aware in 

this rulemaking? 

If so, what are these designs or 

technologies, and how should DOE acquire the 

cost data necessary for evaluating them? 

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 MR. RABA: I see a hand raised. 

MR. OSANN: Yeah. This is Ed Osann 

with NRDC. This actually goes to the previous 

request for comment on the engineering 

analysis and efficiency levels for 

consideration. 

MR. RABA: Sure. 

MR. OSANN: I didn't quite get it 

in before you switched subjects. 

MR. RABA: No problem. 

MR. OSANN: I just wanted to 

clarify that there are no max tech levels 

shown here, and ask whether it is in fact 

DOE's intention to develop a max tech level 

for each product class? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: That will be 

determined during the course of the rulemaking 

as part of that analysis. 

MR. OSANN: The max tech level will 

be determined, not whether to identify a max 

tech level, but what the specific level is? 

MR. SUTHERLAND: That's correct. 

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 MR. RABA: Okay. Comments? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: Go ahead. 

MR. SUTHERLAND: Thanks. Okay, and 

last note relating to the engineering 

analysis, are impacts on consumer utility. 

EPCA requires DOE to consider any lessening of 

utility or performance likely to result from a 

new standard. 

So DOE will consider whether new 

standards may impact consumer utility of 

commercial clothes washers. On this topic, 

request for comment, Item 5-7, DOE seeks 

comment on whether any new standards may 

impact the utility of commercial clothes 

washers, and if such impacts exist, can the 

effects be quantified, and if so, how? 

(No response.) 

MR. SUTHERLAND: No comments, okay. 

At this point, we are going to jump ahead to 

the manufacturer impact analysis, and I'll 

turn it over to Ben Barrington, who will 

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present that. 

MR. BARRINGTON: Thanks for all 

this equipment. 

(Pause.) 

MR. BARRINGTON: Is that pretty 

good? Thanks. Thanks very much, Tim. I may 

need to move this up a little bit. Good 

morning, everyone. I'm Ben Barrington with 

Navigant Consulting. I help conduct the 

manufacturer impact analysis as part of DOE's 

efficiency standards rulemakings. 

I'm going to walk you through sort 

of why we do the manufacturer impact analysis 

and sort of the process that we follow. So 

the manufacturer impact analysis fulfills two 

of EPCA's requirements, to determine economic 

justification of a proposed efficiency 

standard. 

Specifically, those are the 

economic impacts on manufacturers themselves, 

but also the impact on the industry at large 

and the competitive dynamics therein. There 

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are some format changes described in a 2006 

report to Congress. 

It's available in the link 

displayed below, primarily relating to 

specific activities that have to happen as 

part of the manufacturer impact analysis. 

So there are roughly five stages 

that happen as part of this portion of the 

analysis. It's downstream from the 

engineering and shipments analysis, and so we 

use inputs that are created as part of those 

other analyses, in performing the MIA. 

But it starts off with an industry 

profile, in which we aim to identify current 

and past industry structure, ownership 

structure, whether things are manufactured 

domestically, whether they're imported, things 

of this sort. 

Along with that, we examine the 

annual reports and 10-Ks as filed in the SEC 

by manufacturers of these products that are 

publicly traded, and where available, publicly 

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available information from their annual 

reports as well, to develop an industry 

weighted average set of financial parameters. 

Also during that phase, we look 

through databases of companies that engage in 

this type of activity, looking through the 

North American Industry Classification System 

codes relevant to this particular industry, to 

develop a list of manufacturers, and identify 

if any of those are small businesses or other 

subgroups of manufacturers that we're 

considering in this particular rulemaking. 

Beyond that, we also work to 

develop our framework for analysis, which is 

an industry discounted cash flow, to determine 

the net present value of the industry itself, 

both with amended standards and absent amended 

standards. 

I should stop and pause and solicit 

any questions that anyone might have on this 

point. 

(No response.) 

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 MR. BARRINGTON: Okay. I'll move 

forward, then. Once that framework has been 

developed, we also developed an interview 

guide that we circulate to members of 

industry, to get their input on a variety of 

topics, ranging from the key issues that they 

see relevant to this particular rulemaking, to 

how they anticipate shipments might change 

over time, how they anticipate consumer 

preference for products might change over 

time, pricing, so on and so forth. 

I won't go through them, but there 

are about a dozen different topics that we 

address during the course of these interviews. 

We also circulate these interviews with a nondisclosure agreement, that maintains 

confidentiality of the information provided by 

manufacturers during interviews, between 

Navigant Consulting and the manufacturer 

themselves. 

Once we’ve circulated these 

interview guides and booked a day to conduct 

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the interviews, we moved forward with those, 

and as I mentioned, those are carried out on a 

confidential basis. 

Thereafter, we take the information 

provided by manufacturers, additional 

information that's been developed through the 

course of other analyses like the engineering 

and shipments analysis, and work that together 

into an industry cash flow, and then discount 

that back to the present value at the weighted 

average cost of capital for the manufacturers 

represented in our analysis. 

The key quantitative aspects of the 

manufacturer impact analysis are the industry 

net present value, as well as the impact on 

domestic employment. 

Additionally, we also assess the 

cumulative regulatory burden associated with 

the rulemaking, the effects on competition as 

required by EPCA, as well as the 

disproportionate effects on any particular 

subgroup of manufacturers that we've 

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previously identified. 

So that brings us to these two last 

areas in our sort of preliminary screening of 

the industry to date. We've identified one 

small business manufacturer of commercial 

clothes washers, and we've also identified one 

low volume manufacturer of commercial clothes 

washers, that is a sort of carryover subgroup 

that was analyzed separately in the last 

rulemaking. So we're moving forward with 

doing that again. 

With regards to the cumulative 

regulatory burden, these are other regulations 

that could affect the industries impacted by 

this rulemaking, and those include standards 

on residential clothes washers, clothes 

dryers, as well as room air conditioners, as 

well as the ROHS or Reduction of Hazardous 

Substances directive. 

I think that takes us to our first 

comment. In our attempts to identify small 

businesses that are engaged in manufacturing 

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or commercial clothes washers, we would 

greatly appreciate any input from industry who 

could help point us in that direction. So if 

there are any comments? 

(No response.) 

MR. BARRINGTON: None? Okay. 

Additionally, we're open to considering 

additional manufacturers subgroups that we may 

not have considered to date. 

As mentioned, we're doing, we're 

looking at the disproportionate effects on 

small business manufacturers and low volume 

manufacturers. So if there are any other 

subgroups that we should consider, I'd greatly 

appreciate your input. 

MR. RABA: Go ahead. 

MR. OSANN: Ed Osann from NRDC. 

Two questions. Is the disproportionate -- the 

analyses to determine disproportionate 

impacts, is that a standard DOE analysis, or 

is that -- is generally applied across all 

product categories, or is that one-off for 

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this particular rulemaking? 

MS. KOHL: Betsy Kohl from DOE OGC. 

As far as impacts to small businesses, we're 

required by the Regulatory Flexibility Act to 

look at those impacts in every rulemaking that 

we do. So that's a standard analysis. 

MR. OSANN: I guess my question 

was, is the methodology for assessing those 

impacts standardized? 

MS. KOHL: Yes. I mean -- this is 

Betsy Kohl, DOE OGC. There may be 

differences, depending on the specific facts, 

the industries that are out there. But 

typically, the analysis is pretty much the 

same. 

MR. RABA: Thank you, Ed. Other 

comments or questions? 

(No response.) 

MR. RABA: In all, you may want to 

again, certainly we invite, DOE invites your 

comments in written form after this, as we 

proceed on from the public meeting here to 

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Page 65 

think about it, and if you have something that 

you'd like to raise as part of the issue to 

move the process forward constructively, it 

would be very helpful. 

MR. BARRINGTON: Okay. I think we 

have one more request for comment. With 

regards to cumulative regulatory burden, if 

there are other products that are also 

simultaneously being regulated by DOE in terms 

of minimum efficiency standards. 

We welcome your comment on those, 

as well as any other things outside of the 

scope of efficiency standards that might 

impact your business. 

MR. RABA: None seen in the room at 

this time. Any via the webinar would like 

offer comment or question at this time? Well, 

we've proceeded quite ahead of schedule this 

morning, which is a good sign, so he's being 

very efficient. So let's take a break to come 

back at 10:30 by that clock up there. 

Remember there's a coffee shop 

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Page 66 

directly below us on the ground floor, and as 

you walk about the building, be sure you wear 

your pink badge above the waist so it's very 

visible. Otherwise, security may stop you and 

I don't know who they are. But yes, please do 

that. 

So a good start to the day, and 

take a break. Be back here at 10:30 please. 

(Whereupon, the above-entitled 

matter briefly went off the record.) 

MR. RABA: Please take your seats. 

Brenda's passed out a record of our attendance 

here. From the attendance, you can see who is 

here, the business cards and the sign-ins. 

So we did before the break the 

manufacturer impact analysis, and now we will 

start with the markups analysis, energy and 

water use analysis and so forth and so on. 

Say it. 

(Off record comments.) 

MS. IYER: Okay. All right. Good 

morning, everybody. My name is Maithili Iyer. 

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I am with the Lawrence Berkeley National 

Laboratory. In the next hour or so, I'll be 

covering analysis, the economic analysis that 

follows engineering work. 

As part of this, you see that there 

are many boxes that I'm supposed to cover in 

the next hour or so. I'll try to be as 

detailed or short as required, and I 

appreciate any comments or questions from all 

of you. Feel free to interrupt me whenever 

you feel like it. 

I will first cover the life cycle 

cost analysis, and cover two important inputs 

to this piece of analysis. These two are 

mark-ups and energy and water use. This is a 

flow chart of the life cycle cost and payback 

period analysis inputs. 

The yellow boxes here represent the 

data inputs; the green ones represent 

intermediate analyses, and the blue boxes are 

the output results. There are several 

intermediate steps to finally get to the life 

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cycle cost and national impacts. 

One of the important things, since 

the life cycle cost looks at the total cost of 

owning and operating an appliance over the 

life of the equipment, we look at the purchase 

expense or the total installed cost, and the 

annual operating expense, which is basically a 

part of the lifetime operating expense. 

For this, we require energy and 

water use to establish energy and water 

consumption of the commercial clothes washer 

unit, and the consumer retail price markup, 

which is required to develop the retail 

prices, once we have the manufacturer price. 

DOE needs to understand the 

distribution channel in order to develop the 

markups. The boxes in the middle of this flow 

diagram show the distribution channel of 

commercial clothes washers. 

You'll notice that we have 

manufacturers and route operators supplying 

the units to common area laundry in multiNeal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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Page 69 

family establishments, and distributors or 

wholesalers supplying to laundromats. 

In order to get to the final retail 

price, DOE will develop whatever markup is 

necessary to move from the manufactured 

product to the consumers, which are basically 

the laundromats and multi-family buildings 

here. 

You will see that this graph is 

from 1998. It is fairly old. We would like 

inputs from the stakeholders, if this 

distribution channel still represents what we 

see in the market today. 

There are essentially two types of 

markups that we consider under this. One is 

the baseline markup and the other is the 

incremental markup. The baseline markup 

typically includes all those costs that are 

part of moving a manufactured product to its 

final consumer retail price. 

This will include things like 

salaries, wages, rentals, etcetera. What this 

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will not include is the sales tax. The 

incremental markups, on the other hand, are 

those costs -- include those costs that are 

specific to a more efficient product. 

So this is generally very small, 

and will not include salaries or rentals, but 

will include specific costs that are required 

to sell a more efficient product. So 

something like marketing of a more efficient 

product will become part of this cost. 

In order to develop these markups, 

DOE will utilize data from the SEC 10-K 

reports that are filed by companies or part of 

the distribution chains, and also the economic 

Census data from the U.S. Census Bureau. DOE 

will also develop and apply a sales tax, and 

will use the data from sales tax clearinghouse 

for this purpose. 

We have a specific request for 

comment here. Item 7-1 requests comments from 

you on the distribution channels that we just 

described. Item 7-2 seeks input on the data 

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Page 71 

sources that will be used for developing the 

markups. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Maybe you can go 

back to the diagram. Good morning, everyone. 

Surely we can comment on this. This is 1998. 

Come on. Yes, okay. 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: Okay. So that concludes 

the markups analysis. We will now look at the 

second key input to the LCC analysis, which 

establishes the operating cost expense as the 

input. 

The purpose of the energy and water 

use analysis is to develop annual energy and 

water consumption data, to establish the life 

cycle cost at varying efficiency levels for 

the product. 

DOE will utilize the per unit 

energy and water use data at different 

efficiency levels for the product, for both 

the top-loading and front-loading, and utilize 

this in connection with the usage of the unit, 

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the number of cycles that any clothes washer 

unit goes through. 

The test procedure that describes 

the calculation of energy and water use 

utilizes a single value for the number of 

cycles, based on residential use. DOE 

therefore needs to establish an appropriate 

range for the commercial clothes washer units 

in the field. 

In the past, DOE utilized research 

studies available from Multi-Housing Laundry 

Association, the Coin Laundry Association, 

Consortium for Energy Efficiency, and Southern 

California Edison, to establish the usage for 

these products. 

The two primary applications that 

DOE will consider under this are, as we have 

already discussed, will be multi-family 

buildings and laundromats. This is specific 

request for data. DOE requests per cycle 

energy and water use for each efficiency 

level, for both the top- and the front-loading 

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clothes washers. 

The past studies that I mentioned, 

which were used in the previous rulemaking, 

established the average number of cycles for 

multi-family applications as 3.4 cycles, and 

for laundromats, six cycles per day. Now you 

see that there is a wide variation in the 

number of cycles that we have from different 

studies. 

We would definitely want to improve 

this estimate, and if there are any new 

studies that people want to point us to, we 

welcome those. 

This slide provides more detail as 

to how we calculate the energy use, the annual 

energy use by efficiency level for a specific 

application type. 

The green box here represents, 

takes the annual usage per application type, 

which is the total number of cycles per year, 

and multiplies that by the per cycle energy 

use, to arrive at the annual energy use by 

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efficiency level for that application. 

The equation here is from the test 

procedure, and you would notice that the 

energy component comprises of three parts: 

the machine energy, the water heating energy 

and the dryer energy. 

The machine energy is primarily the 

motor energy required to turn the agitator or 

to rotate the wash basket. So the annual 

energy use is basically per cycle energy use 

times the number of cycles. 

We have a request for comment here. 

Item 6-1. Here, DOE seeks input on the 

approaches considered for specifying the 

typical annual energy and water consumption. 

Most importantly, we would like 

information on establishing the 

commercial clothes washers in the field. 

data 

usage 

or 

of 

MR. RABA: Ed Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Yeah. This is Ed Osann 

with NRDC. In this portion of the framework 

document, DOE states that other applications, 

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meaning other than multi-family housing and 

coin laundry, include lodging establishments, 

inpatient health care facilities and nursing 

homes. 

Relative to multi-family buildings 

and laundromats, these other applications are 

a small segment of the market. In the prior 

rulemaking, the 2010 rule, the entire analysis 

seemed to ignore the on-premise laundry 

segment. 

There were analyses that were 

carried forward in some detail for coin 

laundry, laundromat sector and multi-family, 

and really no analysis. I don't think they 

were even included in the unit count for 

machines that were used for on-premise 

laundry. 

I guess I would start with a 

question, that there is no -- it is clear that 

machines that are used for on-premise laundry 

that meet the size qualification in the 

statute are in fact covered products, are they 

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not? 

MS. KOHL: Betsy Kohl, DOE OGC. If 

it meets the definition in the statute, then 

yes, it's a covered product. 

MR. OSANN: Okay. Yes, it refers 

to other commercial applications in addition 

to multi-family housing, common areas and coin 

laundries. I would just point out that while 

this may be a relatively small segment of 

product line, the usage factors may in fact be 

greater than say common area laundry rooms. 

So it would seem to be worthwhile 

for DOE to acquire data on on-premise laundry 

usage, and develop usage factors and do a 

comparable degree of analysis as was done for 

these other two categories. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

Don Brundage. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: I'm trying to 

envision what sort of applications you're 

talking about. You're talking about something 

like a business that has laundries for 

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uniforms or small equipment located at a place 

like a hotel, or what -- can you give 

examples? 

MR. OSANN: Ed Osann. Yes, as 

noted in the framework document, the 

hospitality industry, bed and breakfast, there 

of course is a wide range of equipment that is 

supplied by this industry that's beyond the 

size thresholds that limit the scope of 

covered products. 

But there are what you might call 

family size or small load machines that are 

offered by most of the purveyors of commercial 

products, specifically for the on-premise 

laundry market. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

Additional comments? 

MS. IYER: Thank you. We will now 

move to describing the life cycle cost and 

payback period analysis in greater detail. 

The purpose of the life cycle cost analysis is 

to assess the net life cycle cost impact on 

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Page 78 

consumers for differing efficiency levels of 

the product. 

As we have explained before, this 

includes the purchase expense, which is the 

consumer price and the installation, and the 

operating cost of running that equipment over 

the lifetime. 

The operating cost is discounted 

over the lifetime of the unit to present 

value, to get us the total life cycle cost. 

The difference of the life cycle cost between 

a baseline unit and the standard or potential 

efficiency level, or the unit potential 

efficiency level gives us the life cycle cost 

impact. 

DOE implements this analysis in an 

Excel spreadsheet, and as part of this, will 

also calculate payback period, which measures 

the amount of time it takes to recover a 

presumed increased price of higher efficiency 

product through reduction in operating costs. 

Recognizing that several of the 

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inputs to the LCC analysis have a lot of 

variability and uncertainty associated with 

it, DOE will model these uncertainties and 

variabilities using a Monte Carlo simulation, 

and by assigning probability distributions to 

these input variables. 

We saw that -- we noticed the wide 

range of variability in the clothes washer 

usage. This introduces uncertainty in the 

energy and water use value, and we addressed 

this uncertainty through the variability that 

is assigned to the usage factor. 

This type of analysis allows DOE to 

quantify the percentage of consumers that may 

benefit from a potential standard, and those 

that may not. 

The benefits are calculated with 

respect, in relation to a base case efficiency 

distribution, and therefore that distribution 

is very critical, so as to not overstate the 

benefits accruing from a particular efficiency 

level. 

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 We come up with a comment here, 

Item 8-1. Here, DOE seeks input on the extent 

to which purchasers of commercial clothes 

washers are able to either pass on the higher 

purchase cost of more efficient clothes 

washers, or are otherwise able to recover 

these costs. This is relevant for the multifamily laundry application. 

Item 8-6. DOE requests data from 

interested parties to characterize the current 

mix of commercial clothes washers, washer 

efficiencies in the market. Any comments? 

MR. BROOKMAN: Ed Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Yes, this is Ed Osann 

from NRDC. I think one of the areas that 

could benefit from more development in the 

record is more transparency on typical 

contract arrangements between route operators 

and the host building owners. 

I think there was very little in 

the record the last time around about that, 

but typical contract terms, typical coin box 

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splits. These would be useful things to have 

in the record, and I think that it ought to be 

possible to acquire that information, under 

the same kind of confidentiality protection 

that's afforded to manufacturers. 

MS. IYER: Okay. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

Other comments? 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: Okay. Here's an example 

of the Monte Carlo simulation. This is an 

efficiency distribution from the prior 

rulemaking, from the 2010 commercial clothes 

washer LCC analysis. This sort of describes 

how we conduct this analysis. 

The plot here on the X axis 

provides the life cycle cost savings for a 

specific efficiency level, and the Y axis 

shows the probability of its occurrence. The 

bold blue line that separates the red bars 

from the blue bars is the point where there is 

-- this is the point of no impact. 

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 Everything to its right is LCC 

benefit, and everything to its left is not. 

The dotted line represents the mean LCC 

savings. It is 179 here, and the table here 

provides the percentage of population that 

actually is benefitting from that, which is 85 

percent. 

So this sort of explains how the 

LCC analysis really takes care of the wide 

distribution that we see amongst consumers. 

I will now move to covering all the 

other inputs that go into the LCC analysis. 

I'll start with energy prices. Energy prices, 

in combination with energy use, covers the 

operating cost pertaining to energy use for a 

commercial clothes washer. 

DOE will develop the electricity 

prices from the EIA Form 861 data and the 

natural gas and oil prices from the Natural 

Gas Monthly and The Petroleum Navigator, also 

published by the EIA. 

The EIA Form 861 data provides 

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utility-based data, which allows DOE to 

develop these average prices for 13 geographic 

regions. These include the nine Census 

divisions and the four large states. DOE will 

use the residential population rate for these 

geographic areas, to come up with an average 

price for the nation. 

For projecting the energy prices 

out to the future, DOE will utilize EIA's 

Annual Energy Outlook, that provides 

projections for reference, high and low cases. 

We also welcome other quantitative price 

projections that may be available, and 

stakeholders want DOE to run sensitivities on. 

The water and waste water prices, 

in combination with water usage, covers the 

operating costs pertaining to water. DOE will 

develop the water and waste water prices by 

utilizing the water and waste water rate 

survey conducted by the American Water Works 

Association and the Raftelis Financial 

Consultants. 

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 The water and waste water rate 

survey covers about 216 water utilities, and 

about 153 waste water utilities. Since 216 is 

not a large enough number to represent all the 

water utilities and all geographic areas, DOE 

will develop the average prices at the four 

Census region level. 

To forecast the future prices, DOE 

will use the historical Bureau of Labor's 

consumer price index for water and sewerage 

for this purpose. Again, DOE may evaluate 

other projections that may be available, and 

the stakeholders may want to provide. 

We have a request for comment here. 

Item 8-2. Here we seek input from all parties 

on the planned approach for estimating current 

and future energy and water and waste water 

prices. Questions? 

MR. BROOKMAN: Ed Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Yes. This is Ed Osann 

from NRDC. I had thought that the AWWARaftelis survey covered a large scope of 

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utilities than 200 plus water and 100 plus 

sewer. 

Are you citing to a particular, to 

a particular survey publication, or are those, 

is that the number of utilities that may have 

been comparable for the entire series, or 

what's the basis for the numbers that you 

cited on the number of utilities? 

MS. IYER: Water and waste water 

rate survey, but I'll allow Camilla to speak 

more on that. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Would you find a 

microphone? 

MS. DUNHAM WHITEHEAD: Camilla 

Dunham Whitehead, LBNL. Whoops. Yeah, this 

refers to the 2010 AWWA and Raftelis survey, 

and those were the numbers of utilities that 

were, that had responded to their survey. 

So what we try to do is generalize 

the information recorded in the AWWA-Raftelis 

survey to the entire country, and as Maithili 

said, to the four Census regions. 

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Page 86

 MS. IYER: Thank you. We'll now 

look at discount rates as an input. Discount 

rates are developed to allow DOE to discount 

the future operating costs to present day. 

DOE will use similar approach as it has done 

before for other commercial product standards 

rulemaking. 

DOE will develop the estimates of 

discount rates based on the cost of capital 

for companies to purchase commercial clothes 

washers. This may be in the form of funds 

that are required to be raised in the form of 

finance cost, from debt incurred, or in the 

form of equity from capital used, interest 

from equity used. 

The data that DOE will use to 

develop the discount rate is Damodaran Online 

and Ibbotson Associates. We will use whatever 

publicly available data exists, and if there 

are other data that stakeholders would want to 

refer us to, we'll be happy to receive those. 

Specific comment here, Item 8-5. 

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Page 87 

DOE seeks stakeholder input on the planned 

approach for estimating discount rates for 

commercial customers. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Ed Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Yes. This is Ed Osann 

from NRDC. I have a question about the 

application of the discount rate. In the 

past, DOE has used this to discount financial 

costs, and also discount energy savings. Is 

it still your intention to use a discount rate 

to discount energy savings? 

MS. IYER: It's the operating cost 

that we are discounting. The purchase of the 

equipment happens at the time, you know, in 

the present day terms. So that doesn't need 

to be discounted. 

This is from the consumer 

perspective. So any expense that is incurred 

in the future is going to be discounted, based 

on this. 

MR. OSANN: Right. We appreciate 

the use and the need for a discount rate in 

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Page 88 

the, in financial analyses. I think we have a 

long-standing objection to the use of the same 

discount rates, those that are developed for 

financial analyses, for discounting energy 

savings. Just make a record of that. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. 

MS. IYER: Okay. In this slide, we 

combine three inputs to the LCC analysis: the 

maintenance, repair and installation costs. 

We combine three, all three over here, even 

though installation cost pertains to the 

initial or the first cost at the time of the 

equipment purchased. 

The maintenance and repair occurs 

over the lifetime of the equipment, and are 

actually part of the operating costs. We do 

that because DOE does not have information 

indicating that routine repair and maintenance 

or installation of a more efficient commercial 

clothes washer unit will be that much 

different from a baseline unit. 

Since LCC savings are calculated as 

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Page 89 

the difference between a baseline unit and 

those of a more efficient unit, we expect the 

difference to be negligible or zero. 

That brings us to a comment. Item 

8-3. DOE seeks input on whether it is correct 

to assume that changes in maintenance, repair 

and installation costs will be negligible for 

more efficient commercial clothes washers, and 

if we are not correct about that, DOE is 

interested in the reasons as to why it is so, 

and specific ways that DOE should correct this 

assumption. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. No comments 

here. Okay. 

MS. IYER: Okay. Product 

lifetimes. Product lifetimes are important to 

calculate the operating cost over the life of 

the equipment. The past DOE analysis utilized 

the following product lifetimes: we 

calculated 7.13 as the life, an average life 

for a laundromat application, and 11.25 years 

for multi-family laundry application. 

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Page 90

 These were developed based on the 

sources that are listed here. We would like 

to update these, if there is any change, and 

we are also looking for other studies that 

provide inputs on the lifetime. 

Request for comment here. Item 8-

4. DOE seeks input on appropriate lifetimes 

for the commercial clothes washer classes 

covered in this rulemaking. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Ed Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Ed Osann with NRDC. 

I'd just note in the previous slide there's no 

presentation of information for on-premise 

laundries. 

MS. IYER: We have utilized 

whatever studies were available, and those did 

not cover smaller establishments with onpremise laundry. So if you have information 

available, we would definitely encourage you 

to submit that. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, please. 

Amanda, is it? 

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Page 91

 MS. GONZALEZ: Yes. This is Amanda 

Gonzalez on behalf of the California IOUs. 

Can you just mention how those lifetimes were 

calculated? 

MS. IYER: Sure. 

MS. GONZALEZ: Did you take into 

account the market-rated averages for toploading and front-loading? 

MS. IYER: Yes. 

MS. GONZALEZ: Because the --

(Simultaneous speaking.) 

MS. GONZALEZ: --seemed low. 

MS. IYER: Yeah. The studies 

listed over here, you would notice that they 

all have a wide range. DOE made the 

assumption that because laundromats experience 

heavier usage, we considered those studies or 

those data sets that pointed to ten years or 

less, and came up with an average based on a 

number of data sets that were available. 

For multi-family laundry 

applications, because it does experience less 

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usage, sorry let me correct myself. It was 

ten years or more, and in the case of -- in 

the case of multi-family laundry applications, 

it is basically seven years or more. That was 

ten years or less. I'm just blabbering here. 

So we used those data sets, that sort of fell 

into that criteria, to develop the averages. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Additional 

questions or comments. Yes, please Phil. 

MR. MANTHEI: Phil Manthei, 

Alliance Laundry Systems. I would suggest 

that DOE, of course, contact our customers, 

who are the multi-housing route operators, and 

you know, I don't even see them listed up 

there as a source of information. Certainly, 

you know, they could tell you a lot about, you 

know. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Phil, are they 

represented by an entity, or are they kind of 

MR. MANTHEI: Sure. There's MultiHousing Laundry Association. 

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Page 93

 MS. IYER: Right. We did not have 

any study that pointed to lifetime, but we 

definitely look for it. 

MR. MANTHEI: But certainly you can 

ask each one of them, you know, and you know 

who they are. You can go to the Multi-Housing 

Laundry Association and get their names. You 

can get their names from our letters from our 

customers that were submitted to the 

Department of Justice during the last 

rulemaking. 

MS. IYER: Yes. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

Additional comments? 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: Thank you. That 

concludes all the inputs to the LCC analysis. 

We will now cover shipments analysis. The 

purpose of the shipments analysis is to 

quantify the changes in product shipments, due 

to a potential efficiency standard. 

The shipments model is pretty 

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straightforward, in that it forecasts or 

projects future shipments when the standard 

comes into effect, for the entire period of 

the analysis. The shipments model is 

developed based on different data sources and 

includes historical shipments data. 

The model primarily serves two 

purpose. One is of course to project the 

future shipments during the analysis period. 

The second is to develop a stock that is sort 

of vintage-based, that allows us to assign the 

correct efficiency or energy and water use to 

the entire stock. 

So we use a stock turnover 

methodology and we develop the affected stock 

as part of the shipments model. 

The first step in developing 

shipments projections is to come up with the 

base case projection. That is when, in the 

event of no standards. Rather than 

extrapolating the current trend of shipments, 

the shipments model uses driver inputs, driver 

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Page 95 

variables as inputs, to inform the shipments 

pertaining to particular market segments. 

We looked at two market segments 

here. One due to new construction or new 

installations, and the second that is due to 

retirements of the existing clothes washer 

units. The new construction shipments are 

driven off of housing starts, in combination 

with the purchase rate for these multi-family 

housing establishments. 

The retirements, of course, come 

from the lifetime distribution function. We 

have data listed here that we need for 

developing the shipments model, which includes 

historical data, as well as saturation rates 

to properly account for the existing stock of 

products. 

In the past, we have used the AHAM 

fact book, RECS, and American Housing Survey, 

for coming up with saturation rates. I have 

highlighted market share efficiencies as one 

of the data points here. It is not a direct 

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input to the shipments model, but is a very 

important input for the National Impact 

Analysis, which we'll cover later. 

This is a plot of the historical 

shipments data. The Y axis has the total 

shipments in millions, and we cover from mid80's to 2010 here. 

You'll see, and this pertains to 

some of the comments that were there earlier 

about the shipments trendyou'll see that 

there's an increasing trend, up to late 90's, 

and then the shipments start to decline. 

The four black diamonds here are 

from AHAM, that we received as part of the 

last rulemaking. Because of the declining 

trend, DOE in the past rulemaking projected a 

flat shipments out to the future. 

We attributed some of the decline 

to conversions of apartments to condos. We 

did find justification for that assumption 

from the American Housing Survey. 

You'll see that we have five new 

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data points, which are actually based on the 

quantity index of commercial laundry 

equipment. It includes all the equipment that 

falls in this category, not just the product 

that is being covered. 

But you would see that there is a 

pretty good correlation between the AHAM data 

submittal over there and the quantity index. 

We have just plotted this, to sort of show 

that we are continuing to see a declining 

trend, and would like input from stakeholders 

on what they think about the trend. 

This is a request for historical 

sales data, and for market share efficiency. 

These are by product class. 

We come to a specific request for 

comment, Item 9-1. DOE seeks historical 

shipments data, broken down by product class. 

Item 9-2, DOE seeks input on whether 

conversions from apartments to condos or 

townhouses are still occurring. Questions? 

MR. BROOKMAN: Ed Osann. 

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 MR. OSANN: Yes. This is Ed Osann 

with NRDC. What is the basis -- what's the 

source for the quantity index? 

MS. IYER: Bureau of Economic 

Affairs. 

MR. OSANN: Okay, and is it a unitbased index, or is it a dollar-based index? 

MS. IYER: They're available in 

both. This is quantity, so it's unit-based. 

MR. OSANN: Thank you. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Comments on 

conversions from apartments to condos and 

townhouses? 

(No response.) 

MR. BROOKMAN: No comments. Okay. 

MS. IYER: Okay. Once we have 

developed the base case shipments projections, 

DOE needs to come up with standards case 

shipments projections. These are developed 

pretty much the same way, except now we 

account for impact on shipments from potential 

price increases from a new standard. 

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Page 99

 Realizing that data that captures 

the purchase price impact on shipments and the 

operating cost savings on the shipments is not 

easy to procure, and particularly for a 

commercial clothes washer unit, which is a 

small segment of the total clothes washer 

market. 

We request data on that, but in the 

absence of any such data, DOE may use the 

purchase price elasticities that were 

developed for the residential clothes washer 

rulemaking. 

DOE will also, if we're not able to 

come up with a proper elasticity, we may 

create scenarios based on specific drops in 

shipments as a sensitivity, and DOE will also 

account for any cross-price elasticity impacts 

between the product classes, to forecast the 

market shares into the future. 

We have a specific request for 

comment. Item 9-3, request input from 

manufacturers and other stakeholders on 

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historical shipments by efficiency, historical 

prices of commercial clothes washers for 

specific product categories. This will allow 

us to determine purchase price elasticities. 

Item 9-4 seeks input from 

manufacturers and stakeholders on the 

potential impact of amended commercial clothes 

washer energy conservation standards on 

equipment shipments, and whether the 

elasticities developed for residential clothes 

washers would be appropriate for commercial 

clothes washers. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, please. Julia. 

MS. FARBER: Sorry. This is just a 

point of clarification that I have. So is the 

Department of Energy considering, also in 

doing these price elasticity reviews, are you 

also considering any incentive programs that 

might be out there, to encourage people to 

purchase any of these products? 

MS. IYER: Since we are focusing 

mainly on price increases pertaining to 

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standards, we don't really consider those 

programs for this particular purpose. 

MS. FARBER: Thank you. 

MR. BROOKMAN: You see the comment 

boxes 9-3 and 9-4, historical shipments and 

elasticities. No additional comments or 

questions? 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: That concludes shipments 

analysis. We will now cover the National 

Impact Analysis. National Impact Analysis 

allows DOE to assess national energy and water 

savings, and the national economic impact. 

In order to develop annual national 

energy and water savings, DOE utilizes the 

shipments projections that is generated by the 

shipments model, and the per unit energy and 

water use data developed as part of the LCC 

analysis, to develop the energy and water 

consumption of the entire stock of commercial 

clothes washer units in the country. 

DOE aggregates all of the costs and 

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the consumption, and reports national energy 

savings and national water savings. DOE 

discounts the operating cost savings, to come 

up with the Net Present Value. 

This graph here, which is a flow 

chart of how this is implemented, will explain 

it further as to how base case and standards 

case annual energy and water use is developed. 

You will see that the shipments 

analysis on top provides both the base case 

and the standards case projection of 

shipments. The time period considered is from 

2018, the potential year for the energy 

conservation standards to kick in, up to 2047, 

which is a 30-year period. 

DOE potentially will calculate 

annual energy and water consumption for every 

single year in that period, and will calculate 

energy and water consumption as it pertains to 

the complete stock of commercial clothes 

washer units in the country. 

These are aggregated to arrive at 

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the total, which is the base case cumulative 

energy and water savings, water use, and the 

standards case cumulative energy and water 

use. 

These are then converted from site 

to source, using a site to source energy 

conversion factor, to arrive at the source 

energy and water use in the base case and the 

standards case. The difference between the 

two gives us the national energy and water 

savings. 

The NPV, the National Consumer Net 

Present Value follows a similar procedure. 

The inputs come from shipments model in the 

form of base case and standards case 

projections, and DOE will develop two streams 

of costs here, operating costs and the total 

equipment costs. 

The operating costs come from the 

energy and water costs, and the repair and 

maintenance costs for the same analysis period 

that we computed the national energy savings 

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for. The equipment cost informs the part of 

total equipment cost increase for the same 

period of analysis. 

These are discounted to arrive at 

the Net Present Value and the difference 

between the operating cost savings and the, 

excuse me, equipment cost increase, gives us 

the national Net Present Value. 

This slide talks about shipmentrated efficiency data and market share 

efficiency data, and how it is important for 

calculating the National Impact Analysis, or 

conducting the National Impact Analysis, and 

projecting future changes in efficiency. 

The historical trends in product 

efficiency helps DOE to project future product 

efficiencies. Other than that, DOE also uses 

other market pull programs that may be in 

existence, such as Energy Star or others, that 

informs the base case efficiency trend. 

The market share efficiency data is 

utilized to create the market share efficiency 

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distribution when the standards kick in. In 

the past, DOE has utilized a roll up scenario 

to project the standards impact, which 

basically moves all the units below a certain 

standard level out of the market and moves the 

efficiency to the standard level. 

DOE will also report the full fuel 

cycle measure of energy and greenhouse gases 

as part of the NIA. Basically, what the full 

fuel cycle does is it goes beyond the power 

sector to calculate the extraction, processing 

and transportation of fuels to the power 

sector. We will present detailed technical 

documentation in the technical support 

document. 

This is a data request for 

historical shipment-weighted average 

efficiency by product class. We request data 

going as far back as 1997, because the more 

data we have, the better we are able to 

project the future trends. 

We're coming up for request for 

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comment. Item 10-1, DOE seeks historical 

shipment-weighted efficiency data by product 

class. We also seek historical market share, 

showing the percentage of equipment shipments 

by efficiency level for as many product 

classes as possible. 

MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here. 

MS. IYER: Okay. Moving on --

okay. 

MR. MANTHEI: Phil Manthei from 

Alliance Laundry Systems. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Phil. 

MR. MANTHEI: I guess I would think 

that you would have all the data up to the 

last rulemaking, and from the historical, you 

wouldn't need to really ask for that again, 

right? It would just be the more recent? 

MS. IYER: We do have some data. 

It wasn't very detailed the last time around. 

We had the shipment-weighted efficiency data 

for three years. So any new data we can get 

will always be useful. 

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Page 107

 Okay. I will now move on to 

consumer subgroup analysis. The purpose of 

the consumer subgroup analysis is to analyze 

economic impacts of standards on those 

consumers that are likely to be 

disproportionately impacted by a potential 

standard. 

The method DOE employs to assess 

this impact is to extend the LCC, or the Life 

Cycle Cost analysis, to examine the impacts on 

specifically defined groups. 

In the past rulemaking, DOE looked 

at specific groups such as laundromats, small 

businesses, or landlord-owned apartment 

buildings, small lodging establishments that 

have on-site laundries. So we covered some of 

the subgroups as part of the consumer subgroup 

analysis. 

We have a request for comment. DOE 

requests input on any consumer subgroups it 

should consider when analyzing the standards 

for commercial clothes washers, and in fact 

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we'd like to develop these subgroups based on 

stakeholder input. Yeah. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Ed Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Osann with NRDC. In 

this context, are consumer subgroups subgroups 

of purchasers of the equipment, or subgroups 

of users of the equipment? 

MS. IYER: Purchasers. 

MR. OSANN: So for instance, 

Americans With Disabilities, ADA-compliant, 

availability of ADA-compliant equipment would 

not be a consideration? 

MS. IYER: If they purchased their 

own equipment, they will be. The way we 

define the consumer here is somebody who is 

purchasing it and operating it. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Additional comments? 

MS. IYER: Okay. We now move to 

utility impact analysis. The purpose of the 

utility impact analysis is to assess the 

overall impact from a conservation standard on 

electric and gas utilities that supply energy. 

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Page 109 

The national energy savings from the National 

Impact Analysis forms the input to this 

analysis. 

DOE will use the NEMS-BT model, 

which is a variant of the national energy 

modeling system developed by the EIA, for 

conducting this analysis. The analysis will 

be developed for two cases, the base case and 

the standards case, and the standards case 

will be run as a departure from the AEO 

reference case. 

Request for comment. Item 13-1. 

DOE seeks input from stakeholders regarding 

its plan to use the NEMS-BT model to conduct 

the utility impact analysis. We would like 

input on whether NEMS-BT model is appropriate 

for this analysis, and if not, we would like 

inputs as to why. We would also like inputs 

from the stakeholders on any other model that 

they consider more appropriate for conducting 

this analysis. 

MR. BROOKMAN: No comments on NEMS. 

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Okay. 

MS. IYER: Okay. We move to 

employment impact analysis. The basic purpose 

of the employment impact analysis is to assess 

the overall impact from a conservation 

standard on national employment at that level. 

Employment impacts include both 

direct and indirect impacts. The direct 

impacts were already covered by Ben in the 

manufacturer impact analysis that he covered. 

The indirect employment impacts result from 

any changes from a reduced energy consumption 

or changes in equipment prices. 

These can be in the form of 

substitution effect or income effect. DOE 

intends to use an input/output model to assess 

these impacts. The impact of sector energy 

technology is an input/output model of the 

U.S. economy that DOE plans to use. 

We have another request for comment 

here. Item 14-1, DOE welcomes feedback on its 

approach to assessing national employment 

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Page 111 

impacts. 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: No comments? 

MR. BROOKMAN: No comments on 

employment impacts. 

MS. IYER: Moving on, emissions 

analysis. The purpose of the emissions 

analysis is to assess the environmental 

impacts from a potential energy conservation 

standard on commercial clothes washers. 

These will include impact from 

power sector emissions, as well as the full 

fuel cycle emissions, and also the site 

emissions from the use of oil and gas from 

water heating. 

DOE will base the emissions factors 

for full fuel cycle on EIA's Annual Energy 

Outlook, and will supplement that with other 

data sources for developing the multipliers. 

The standard power sector emissions 

will include carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, 

nitrogen oxides and mercury. The full fuel 

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cycle in addition will provide emissions of 

methane and nitrous oxide, both of which are 

recognized as greenhouse gases. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: Yes. Don Brundage. 

I just want to emphasize the importance in 

looking at electric utility emissions, and 

making sure you supplement data from other 

sources. Things are moving very rapidly, with 

additions of emission controls and retirements 

of plants. 

So it's very important to do a good 

job on this, because the future is not the 

past for these emissions. Thank you. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

MS. IYER: Thanks. DOE also 

monetizes emissions reductions for carbon 

dioxide and nitrogen oxide. For this, DOE 

will use the most current social cost of 

carbon values developed by inter-agency 

reviews. 

At the present time, the interagency estimates of the potential global 

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benefits resulting from carbon dioxide 

emissions are provided in this slide. 

We do anticipate that these values 

are likely to change, depending on the 

contributions of CO or other GHG emissions, 

2 

and the economic damage that ensues from them. 

So we are aware that this is not something to 

be cast in stone. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Don Brundage. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: One more comment. 

On your carbon emissions, are you basing the 

emissions on measured emissions or the input 

fuels? 

MS. IYER: These will be, since we 

are going through a full fuel cycle, these 

will include the measured, the emissions that 

pertain to the power sector, and those that 

actually will impact through the fuel supply 

chain. 

MR. BRUNDAGE: Okay. The reason 

I'm bringing it up is there are some plants, 

and my own company has one, that removes and 

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sequesters carbon dioxide. We have one 

currently under construction for completion in 

2014, which will remove two-thirds of the 

carbon dioxide. 

So some of the standard ways of 

calculating this may not be true in the future 

as they have in the past. 

MS. IYER: Okay, duly noted. Since 

we use NEMS-BT for the power sector emissions, 

I'm assuming that EIA actually has in its 

database information about, you know, plants 

that have this capacity, and incorporates 

that. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

MS. IYER: So we now come up with a 

specific request for a comment. DOE seeks 

input on its plan to use NEMS-BT and other 

sources to analyze emissions impacts on 

potential standards on commercial clothes 

washers. 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: Okay. Moving on to 

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Page 115 

regulatory impact analysis. This will be the 

last analysis I'll be covering today. 

Recognizing that there are several 

other efforts that are ongoing, either from 

utilities or manufacturers or other interested 

parties, that helps improve the efficiency of 

commercial clothes washer units, DOE will 

conduct its regulatory impact analysis for all 

the non-regulatory approaches that are out 

there. 

For this purpose, DOE will evaluate 

actual impacts that have been there from other 

such programs in the past, and will also 

include any existing programs that are likely 

to have impact in the future. That's pretty 

much the conclusion of regulatory impact 

analysis. Thank you very much. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Ed 

Osann. 

MR. OSANN: Going back to the 

monetization of the emissions reduction, what 

slide is that? 

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 MS. IYER: I have it up. 

MR. OSANN: Okay, Slide No. 108. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. I think 

she's got it. 

MR. OSANN: Is this simply a side 

bar or an illustrative analysis, or is this 

incorporated into the economic component of 

the National Impact Analysis? 

MS. IYER: This is not 

incorporated, as far as I know, and correct 

me, Betsy, if I'm wrong. But DOE reports 

this. Betsy, do you want to take this 

question? 

MR. BROOKMAN: Betsy. 

MS. KOHL: Sure. This is Betsy 

Kohl at DOE OGC. I can probably confirm it, 

but I think it's not part of the, strictly 

part of that seven-factor analysis. It might 

be under the others, or just something that we 

consider as part of establishing the standard. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 

MS. IYER: Any other questions or 

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comments? 

MS. FARBER: Can I ask a clarifying 

question? 

MS. IYER: Okay. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Julia. 

MS. FARBER: Hi. This is Julia 

from UL. I'm actually not asking -- I'm just 

asking out of curiosity. I have some points 

of clarification. 

Could somebody in the room share 

with me what exactly happens to these products 

when they're done being used in the cycle? Do 

they get sold to somebody else or do they get 

trashed? Is there some other fate for them? 

MR. BROOKMAN: Phil. 

MR. MANTHEI: Well, it depends on -

- if you're mainly talking about the multihousing segment, is that what you're talking 

about, or the --

MS. FARBER: I-- sure. 

(Laughter.) 

MR. MANTHEI: Okay. The coin 

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Page 118 

laundry segment, those probably get trashed, 

because those are pretty well done by their 

lifetime. 

But the multi-housing, depending on 

the contract or leasing arrangement, the 

buyers of our product, the route operators, 

may redeploy them. They may refurbish them 

and redeploy them. 

There's, you know again, I suggest 

DOE discuss that and ask those kind of 

questions, you know, with our customers. But 

I know that is what happens. 

MS. FARBER: Thank you. So then 

going back to that one slide where you were 

asking clarification on and updates from 1998, 

about what happens to the cycle, just curious 

that there is potential for these products to 

be used, reutilized or in certain parts of the 

sector, if they have another life, that should 

be considered in that piece, where the end is 

not really the end, and they get either broken 

down in other pieces and move forward. 

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 I'm also asking also clarification, 

probably to you as well at Alliance. If there 

is a movement in that direction in the 

industry, to start thinking of the products as 

a source of -- another way to either recycle 

or break down the product, reuse some of those 

aspects, so that they don't necessarily just 

go right to landfill? Just out of curiosity. 

MR. MANTHEI: Phil Manthei from 

Alliance. I'm going to probably defer a 

little bit to Jennifer Cleary from AHAM, but 

AHAM has quite a record of, to respond on how 

white goods, as they're called, clothes 

washers and major appliances, are recycled in 

the United States, and it's like 99 percent or 

something like that, mainly because they're 

primarily, you know, metal. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Jennifer. 

MS. CLEARY: Jen at AHAM. Yes, I'd 

be glad to discuss that maybe later on. It's 

just, it's very detailed and complex, but just 

building on what Phil said. 

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 MS. FARBER: Yes, fair enough. The 

reason I was asking is because I was also 

thinking is, do you know where those products 

sold? Like are those pieces sold? Because if 

so, then that may also impact the way that you 

do the analysis, of how, the economic impact 

is there a potential to create another part of 

the industry that's not really part of the 

larger stream. They're just ideas, I know. 

I'm just asking questions, that's all. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, please. 

Amanda. 

MS. GONZALEZ: Hi, yes. This is 

Amanda Gonzalez on behalf of the California 

IOUs. There's actually been research done on 

that question, to look at the energy and cost 

savings associated with refurbishing clothes 

washers, relative to buying them new. 

So I could point you to that, if 

you're interested. If you'd give me your 

business card afterwards. 

MS. FARBER: Yes, absolutely. All 

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right. Well, that will conclude my question 

session. Thank you very much for indulging 

me. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Additional and 

perhaps final questions, before I turn it back 

to Stephen Witkowski for final comments? 

(No response.) 

MS. IYER: I have a request. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes please, go 

ahead. 

MS. IYER: I have a request. 

Amanda, can you point me to the study that 

you're referring to as well? 

MS. GONZALEZ: Yes. 

MS. IYER: Thank you. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Take us to the last 

slide. So I see that the Department has 

furnished a copy of the business cards for 

individuals present here today that signed in. 

So thanks to the Department for doing that. 

Then back to Stephen Witkowski --

MS. KOHL: Before -- this is Betsy. 

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 MR. BROOKMAN: Betsy, yes. 

MS. KOHL: I just wanted to make 

one point of clarification to the discussion 

that we had on Slides 15 and 16, about that 

March 7th, 2015 date on the test procedure. 

That, as many of you in the room 

know, is contingent on DOE adoption of those 

new standards that we established in that 

direct final rule at the end of May. 

And as many of you in the room also 

know, notice for that is due at the end of the 

week. So keep a lookout for that. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Stephen 

Witkowski. It's not on. 

MR. WITKOWSKI: Well, on Slide 113 

is the information for submitting your 

comments, and please note that the comment 

period date closes on October 12th. 

We strongly encourage you to get 

your comments in and get them in by that date, 

and I want to thank you all for coming today 

and participating, and we look forward to as 

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many comments and as much data as you can 

provide. So thank you very much. 

MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. I'm 

going to hand out an evaluation form, send 

that around. We welcome your comments. 

Julia. And if any of you are staying for the 

afternoon meeting, that will commence on time 

at one o'clock. 

(Whereupon, the above-entitled 

matter went off the record at 11:42 a.m.) 

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Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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6
 

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C E R T I F I C A T E
 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 


In the matter of: Conservation Standards for

Clothes Washers: Public Meeting

Before: US DOE

Date: 09-24-12

Place: Washington, DC

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 


my direction; further, that said transcript is a 


true and accurate record of the proceedings. 


-----------------------

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com