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MR. CHAVKIN: Congressman, I'm not sure which email you're referring to.
You said VIP ~~

MR. SWALWELL: We asked about the April 2016 Mayflower event and --

MR. CHAVKIN: We sent that into the committee. That's the attendance
list.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Well, | mean, we'll have to check on that. |
haven't seen that from the majority, and that's a problem separate from what you
have sent, but we have not seen that.

MR. CHAVKIN: May I just say, because | have --

MR. SWALWELL: | will just say because | have a limited amount of time.

So, Mr. Lewandowski, have you deleted any email accounts since you
started with the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you been interviewed by Special Counsel?

MR. CHAVKIN: No. We're not -- Congressman Swalwell, | have
immense respect for you, but we went through this the first time, and | told you we
do not comment about other investigations.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, are you refusing to answer that
question?

MR. CHAVKIN: He's advised not to.

MR. SWALWELL: I'll correct it. Apparently we do have that document
that | earlier referenced, so | appreciate that.

MR. CONAWAY: So the reference to the majority sharing that with you is
not right?

MR. SWALWELL: Yeah. I'll withdraw that.

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media.

MR. QUIGLEY: And did he talk to you about what you might
communicate?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir, not to my recollection.

MR. QUIGLEY: He just said, "If you want to speak on behalf of the White
House as a surrogate, you have to fill out this form"?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir. He asked me if | wanted the talking points
distributed, that they distributed to most of the other surrogates, and | said | did.

MR. QUIGLEY: And what did those talking points include?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | honestly don't recall.

MR. QUIGLEY: Do you still have them?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do not.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you use them?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall.

MR. QUIGLEY: Your conversations with Mr. Priebus about this, Russian
investigations in Congress, when was the last time you talked with him about this?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It would have been prior to Mr. Priebus' departure.
He departed the White House | believe in July of last year.

MR. QUIGLEY: You haven't spoken to him since about this?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate. Yes, sir.

MR. QUIGLEY: And what specifically did you talk about involving these
investigations to Mr. Priebus?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe it was my recommendation to have the
communications team put together some talking points so that surrogates who

were unfamiliar with the topic would have something to say if they appeared on

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For the PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE:

For COREY LEWANDOWSKI:

PETER CHAVKIN

MINTZ LEVIN

701 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.
Suite 900

Washington, D.C. 20004

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Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

Hive minutes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk to Donald Trump after James Comey,
James Clapper, and John Brennan went to Trump Tower during the transition?
Did you talk to him within that period of time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I've spoken to Mr. Trump since that meeting, yes,
but |

MR. SWALWELL: | guess, | mean, within like the day or days after that
meeting. Did you talk to him --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump ever talk to you about the Steele dossier
that he was briefed on by Mr. Comey?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Has he ever talked to you about that dossier?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall specific conversation about the
dossier, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to anyone in the Trump family
about that dossier?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not that! recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know that Ms. Hicks had been approached in
February 2016 by the Russian embassy to connect Donald Trump to Russia
Today? Did she ever tell you that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm sorry. What was the timeframe?

MR. SWALWELL: February 2016.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: In August 2016, Roger Stone tweeted to the effect:
John Podesta is about to spend his time in the barrel.

Did Donald Trump have knowledge of Mr. Stone's tweet, based on your
interactions with him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: What prompted Mr. Schiller to bring up the Moscow
offer with you? ~How did that happen?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall. It was -- | think we were on the
airplane flying somewhere, and we were just having a conversation.

MR. SWALWELL: Was that the only time Mr. Schiller had ever talked to
you about offers of that nature that had been made to Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever talk to Mr. Trump about that offer?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump ever talk to you about any plans he had
ever had to put a Trump Tower in Moscow?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir, | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know that that was a part of -- that the genesis
of that was from the 2013 Miss Universe? ;

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not know that.

MR. SWALWELL: Following up on Ms. Speier's questions about Signal,
Confide, and Snapchat, I'm only interested if you had conversations with
individuals on the campaign using those messaging services if they related to

Russia. Did you ever talk to anyone about Russia through those messaging

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MR. QUIGLEY: How many times have you been to the White House since
the inauguration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know the answer to that question.

MR. QUIGLEY: One time, 5 times, 10 times, two dozen times. You have
to have some ballpark sense of how many times.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: More than 1, less than 100.

MR. QUIGLEY: And how many of those less than 100 times did you talk
with the President of the United States?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Probably 70 percent of the time | was at the White
House | spoke to the President.

MR. QUIGLEY: And in those meetings, in those discussions, there was
never any discussions with you about Russia or sanctions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: There were no conversations regarding Russian
sanctions.

MR. QUIGLEY: Russia or sanctions.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: During my time at the White House, no. There
were no conversation | recall about Russia or sanctions?

MR. QUIGLEY: That's a lot of times going to the White House. Do you
have an official, unofficial role of some sort there?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have no role.

MR. QUIGLEY: So, when you are there, you are there advising the
President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Those were all social visits?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: They vary.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | did.

MR. SCHIFF: And how did you bring it up?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, | mentioned to the
President that Mr. Papadopoulos had pled guilty and said something to the effect
of: | don't even know who this guy is.

MR. SCHIFF: And when you brought it up, did the President -- was he
already aware that Papadopoulos had pled guilty?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know what he was aware of, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: Did anything he say indicate whether he was aware of it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI:_ His response was he was aware of it because it
was widely distributed on the news media at that point.

MR. SCHIFF: And did he discuss the facts of that guilty plea, that the
Russians had told Papadopoulos that they were in possession of stolen DNC or
Clinton emails as early as April 2016?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We did not discuss any of the facts of the plea.

MR. SCHIFF: During the course of the campaign, did it ever come to your
attention that the Russians had approached George Papadopoulos?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It did not.

MR. SCHIFF: When was the first time that you learned that they, the
Russians or their intermediaries, had approached Papadopoulos?

MR. CHAVKIN: Just to clarify one thing, Mr. Schiff, when you say
"Russians approached," do you mean with respect to the emails or just generally
Russian outreach?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm referring particularly to the emails.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, | found out about it

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are you saying that there were multiple conversations that took place after the
campaign on the topic of the Russia investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We didn't discuss an investigation.

MR. SCHIFF: All right. | don't want to get hung up on the word
"investigation." You have testified you talked with him somewhere less than 100
times.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | said | visited the White House less than 100
times. | didn't say | spoke to him less than 100 times. ,

MR. SCHIFF: How many times would you say you have spoken to the
President since the election?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | can't quantify that number. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: But it is would you say dozens of times?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And in those dozens of times you have talked with the
President since the election, is it your testimony that a President that speaks about
Russia almost every day has only had one conversation with you on the topic?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall multiple conversations with the
President on the topic?

MR. SCHIFF: So, in those dozens of conversations since the election, to
the best of your recollection, the President has only raised the topic of Russia in
any way, shape, or form a single time. Is that your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No. My testimony is that, as it relates to a
Russian investigation, | only recall one conversation directly with the President,
which was | initiated the discussion of saying that | was there from the beginning,

and | never met a Russian and never interacted with a Russian, and he confirmed

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Russia to affect the outcome in a U.S. election, they should go to jail for the rest of
their life.

Would it surprise you now, knowing what you know about Mr. Manafort, if
you learned that he had worked with the Russians?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't think right now, what I've learned about Mr.
Manafort, anything would surprise me.

MR. SWALWELL: And any reason that you say that with respect to the
Russians and Mr. Manafort?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Just the emails which have been produced where
Mr. Manafort offered to have private discussions with people overseas and brief
them on the campaign.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you referring to emails where Mr. Manafort is trying
to pass messages along to Olig Deripaska?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Those emails I'd be referring to, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if Mr. Trump, if President Trump is aware
that Mr. Manafort had done that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do not know.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back to Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you had a chance to read General Flynn's guilty plea
and the statement that he submitted at the time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. SCHIFF: In that statement, he acknowledges that he briefed certain
senior transition officials on his discussions with Ambassador Kislyak. Do you
know who those senior transition officials are?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: _! do not know for certain, no.

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were there for just minutes. Is that what you said?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is.

MS. SPEIER: So who do you access in order to get clearance?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, what purpose does this serve? You've got about
10 minutes left, by my watch, on an hour, and --

MS. SPEIER: Mr. Chavkin, I'm asking the question. If you are urging him
not to answer it, go right ahead.

MR. CHAVKIN: It's not pertinent. No reason to answer.

MS. SPEIER: Did you and the President ever talk about George
Papadopoulos?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We might have had a conversation about George.

MS. SPEIER: And when would that conversation have taken place?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Some months ago, probably around the time
where it was revealed that George had pled to Mr. Mueller.

MS. SPEIER: And tell me about that conversation. Who initiated that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall who initiated that conversation.

MS. SPEIER: And tell us about that conversation. What did you say to
the President about George Papadopoulos?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | said, Who the fuck is this guy?

MS. SPEIER: Well, you have had many emails with him, so how could you
not know who the fuck she was?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know George Papadopoulos.

MS. SPEIER: Well, you interacted with him in emails.

MR. CHAVKIN: He also got 300,000 emails during the campaign.

MR. SCHIFF: You're not testifying.

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should appropriately do, as Congressman Rooney told you to do.

MR. SWALWELL: Hey, sit tight, Counsel. I've got more questions.

MR. CHAVKIN: Good.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, you've refused to ask (sic) whether
the President has asked you to lie or others to lie. Have you ever lied for the
President?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, not -- same question, same advice.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, have you ever seen the President
ask others to lie about Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Has the President ever asked you to lie about Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever discussed with the President a pardon
for any role that you may have had with Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever heard the President discuss with others
a potential pardon for any role they may have had with Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: You testified earlier that the President told you that he
had never met with, talked to, engaged with, a Russian during the campaign. Do
you remember telling us that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know that the President had written
correspondence with Russians during the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not know that.

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[12:00 p.m.]
MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Speier.
MS. SPEIER: How much time?

HR, 0u have about 30 seconds, ma'am.

MR. SCHIFF: We will send back to you.

MR. KING: Mr. Lewandowski, since you are being asked questions post

the election, at any time during the transition, or since the President took office,
are you aware of any coordination, conspiracy, collusion between the Trump
administration, President-elect Trump, and the Russians?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir, never.

MR. KING: Or anyone in the Trump campaign organization during that
time, or the White House staff during that time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

HR, Lewandowski, are you aware of any evidence or
information that might be qualified as evidence, whatever your definition of that
word may be, that would show that there was any collusion, coordination, or
conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russian
Government?

MR. CHAVKIN: Can | just jump in?

Hs sure.

MR. CHAVKIN: We're all aware there were a bunch of emails out there
with Papadopoulos and Page. We're excluding that, | assume?

HE, cs. sir.

MR. CHAVKIN: Okay.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | am not.

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Mr. Trump to Moscow?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did.

MR. SWALWELL: When did he talk to you about that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It would have probably, to the best of my
recollection, been sometime in 2015.

MR. SWALWELL: What did he tell you?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He told me that he and Mr. Trump had gone over
to Moscow for, | think it was, a Miss Universe pageant.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller ever share with you that individuals on
that trip had offered Mr. Schiller to send women up to Mr. Trump's room?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did.

MR. SWALWELL: What did Mr. Schiller tell you about that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He told me they would never do that.

MR. SWALWELL: Can you say that again?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He said they would not do that.

MR. SWALWELL: Who is "they"?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Trump nor Mr. Schiller wanted any women sent
to the room.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller tell you if that offer was passed onto
Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller talk about any other offers on that trip
that were made for Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller tell you who had made that offer for

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MR. SCHIFF: Have you discussed who those senior transition officials
might be with anybody in the administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss any of the facts of that plea with the
President at the time --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have never, no.

MR. SCHIFF: | think you said earlier you did not know who George Nadir
(ph) was. Is that correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is.

MR. SCHIFF: Since it became public within the last week or so that he
may have been present at a meeting in Trump Tower with representatives of the
UAE as well as a meeting in the Seychelles with Erik Prince, have you discussed
that issue with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you discussed it with anybody else in the
administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: At one time, there was a Ukraine peace proposal. It's
been described as presented by Felix Sater or presented to Felix Sater and
Michael Cohen from a Ukrainian Parliamentarian. Were you aware of that at the
time it was going on?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: When did you first become aware of that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Only through public accounts.

MR. SCHIFF: And have you discussed that proposal or that meeting or

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heard of. | live in the town directly next to Londonderry, and I'm fairly well versed
on who the vendors are in that general area.

MS. SPEIER: So did you pursue it any further?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | spoke to Alan Weiselberg about it.

MS. SPEIER: And what was the final result? Was it a legitimate
expense?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know the answer to that.

MS. SPEIER: So you didn't follow up on it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was only made aware of the expense after it had
been publicly disclosed in the Federal Elections Commission report.

MS. SPEIER: Did you talk to then-candidate Trump about the
expenditure?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not on that expenditure, no.

HR Ore minute.

MS. SPEIER: The second questionable expenditure you identified was a
disbursement to an entity called Left Hand Enterprise. Is that correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is.

MS. SPEIER: And that was for $730,000 from the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe that's accurate, yes.

MS. SPEIER: In your testimony, you indicated that this transaction came
to your attention through the FEC report. Do you recall how close in time to the
transaction you received this report?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm not exactly sure of when the report was
published to when the expenditure was made, but it was approximately 60 days or

less.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | |'ll just take advice of counsel.

MR. SCHIFF: But you do acknowledge talking with her about this meeting
and the statement that came out of it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you also discuss with Mr. Priebus the meeting at Trump
Tower and the administration's response to it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | spoke with Mr. Priebus about it as well.

MR. SCHIFF: And would that have been within a week or so of the
statement?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe that to be accurate, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And did he reach out to you, or did you reach out to him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall who -- who initiated that conversation.

MR. SCHIFF: And what was the nature of the conversation? What did
you say, and what did he say?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, Corey, | advise you not to answer.

MR. SCHIFF: So you won't tell us what advice or instructions or message
or characterization either Hope Hicks or Mr. Priebus had about the meeting and
about the statement that came out of it. Is that correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: At the advice of counsel, I'll just take his advice.

MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Speier?

MS. SPEIER: So you were very active in the campaign in early 2016, were
you not? You were the campaign manager.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate, yes.

MS. SPEIER: So, when the candidate Trump went and met with one of the

editorial boards -- | think it was The Washington Post, it might have been The New

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as campaign manager pertinent under anyone's concern. So thank you for being
here. When was the last time you spoke with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Monday.

MR. QUIGLEY: And did you talk about your testimony today?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Have you ever spoken to the President of the United
States about your testimony, either before you were testifying or after you
testified?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: So the day before you testified the first time, you
mentioned that you had a call with the President on January 16th, that, again, the
day prior to your interview. Who initiated that call with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The President.

MR. QUIGLEY: And he called you the day before you testified. Was he
calling you from the White House?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | can't answer that question. | don't know where
he called from.

MR. QUIGLEY: How long did that conversation last?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know.

MR. QUIGLEY: Minutes, hours?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Minutes.

MR. QUIGLEY: Was anyone else on the call?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | can't answer that question, | don't know.

MR. QUIGLEY: Well, did you hear anyone else's voice on the phone?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

HS". Chairman, over to you, but | believe there may be an
opening statement.

MR. CONAWAY: Thank you.

Mr. Lewandowski, thank you for coming back. Appreciate that.

Mr. Schiff, any comments?

MR. SCHIFF: No, chairman. | look forward to the hearing.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Lewandowksi, | think you said you wanted to make
an opening statement. So the floor is yours for a brief statement.

MR. CHAVKIN: With the chairman's permission, if | may. | just wanted to
take a couple of minutes to describe how we came about today's appearance. As
you may remember, we were here for a very lengthy, at least almost 8-hour
appearance, during which time Mr. Lewandowski answered every single question
put to him about his time as campaign manager, which is a period of about 18
months.

At that time, we did not prepare for questions about his time after leaving
the campaign because we felt it was not relevant to the parameters of the
committee. But Mr. Lewandowski pledged to come back to answer all relevant
questions.

After we left the first appearance, we discovered two things: First, there
was a stunning lack of preparation by the minority in connection with its
questioning. The minority did not even know that it had a great number of
documents that we had seen and which we even provided a copy of to the
committee after that first appearance.

Second, members of the minority mischaracterized Mr. Lewandowski's first

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And I've testified | saw no collusion, no cooperation, no coordination
between Trump campaign and anything | was part of and the Russians. | can't be
more clear than that. | can't be more clear than that.

| have been as crystal clear as | can be from the day | started with Donald
Trump to the day | left the campaign. | sawno collusion. | saw no cooperation.
| saw no coordination at all. | don't recall ever interacting with Russians in any
way, shape, or form. | don't recall them trying to influence me or the campaign or
any policy on any matter.

So I've been as clear as | can be about that. And if we want to discuss
every conversation since | left the campaign -- I'm willing to entertain you, but what
| don't understand is if we're trying to find out if the Russians did something to
impact the election, if that's what this is -- and I've been very clear -- I'm not on TV
as much as you are, but I'm on TV a lot.

And | have said this many, many times: If anybody attempted to or was
successful in impacting the outcome of a U.S. election, | hope they spend the rest
of their lives in jail. I've been very clear on the record about that, forever. So
let's find out if that's what took place because that's what | think we're here for.

MR. SCHIFF: Then let's just answer the questions, okay.

Ms. Speier.

MS. SPEIER: So you talked with the President about George
Papadopoulos. What did the President say to you about Mr. Papadopoulos?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, the President said
he did not recall meeting Mr. Papadopoulos.

MS. SPEIER: And what did you say to him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't remember exactly, but | probably said, |

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not being honest either with the American people or with this committee. Is that
true?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate, sir.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: And we hope that doesn't happen, but it does
happen. It happens far too often.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Schiff, 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lewandowski, have you had any conversations with the administration
about joining the administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And how recent have those conversations been?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Five months ago.

MR. SCHIFF: That was the most recent conversation was 5 months ago?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: So you haven't had any more recent discussions with the
President about whether you might get a job in the administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you had any conversations with the President's
campaign about serving the campaign in some role, either directly or indirectly?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: You testified earlier about discussing Mr. Papadopoulos
with the President. Was that at the time of his guilty plea?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was.

MR. SCHIFF: And who brought up Mr. Papadopoulos in that

conversation?

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MR. CHAVKIN: Senator Grassley --

MR. SCHIFF: I'm not interested in what other Members who are not a part

of the House might have to say on this subject. | am interested in the answer to

the question. And the witness will either answer it or he won't.

But my question stands. It can be read back to you, if necessary. And |

would like an answer.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Could you read me the question again, please?
MR. CHAVKIN: Can you just hang on one second?

[The reporter read back the record as requested.]

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you have a subsequent conversation with the

President, with Hope Hicks, or others in the administration about how to respond

to the revelation of the meeting in Trump Tower?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | probably did have a conversation, but it was after

the response had already been drafted, distributed, and the media was reporting

on it.

MR. SCHIFF: And how soon thereafter?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It would have been days after.

MR. SCHIFF: And who was that discussion with?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | would have at that time spoken with Reince

Priebus, who would have been the White House chief of staff at the time, and |

believe Mr. Spicer, Ms. Hicks, but not the President or any of the other parties.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever spoken to the President about the meeting at

Trump Tower?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

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EXECUTIVE SESSION

PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

INTERVIEW OF: COREY LEWANDOWSKI

Thursday, March 8, 2018
Washington, D.C.

The interview in the above matter was held in Room HVC-304, Capitol
Visitor Center, commencing at 11:00 a.m.
Present: Representatives Conaway, King, Ros-Lehtinen, Stewart, Schiff,

Himes, Sewell, Carson, Speier, Quigley, Swalwell, Castro, and Heck.

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to get caught in a word game with you about using the word "investigation."

So have you discussed the matters that we have asked you about today
with Mr. McGahn?

MR. CHAVKIN: !'m going to advise him not to answer.

MR. SWALWELL: If! may, Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, have you spoken with Mr. Futerfas,
Alan Futerfas?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you spoken with the lawyers of any -- have you
spoken with any lawyer representing a witness who has been interviewed in the
Russia investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Have | spoke with, I'm sorry, any lawyer
representing anyone who has been interviewed? Is that --

MR. SWALWELL: In the Russia investigation.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Lewandowski, thank you very much. We are done.
Appreciate it.

(Whereupon, at 1:46 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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reporter making a record of these proceedings so we can easily consult a written
compilation of your answers.

Because the reporter cannot record gestures, we ask that you answer all
questions verbally. If you forget to do this, you might be reminded todo so. You
may also be asked to spell certain terms or unusual phrases.

Consistent with the committee's rule of procedure, you and your counsel
upon request will have a reasonable opportunity to inspect the transcript of this
interview in order to determine whether your answers were correctly transcribed.
The transcript will remain in the committee's custody. The committee also
reserves the right to request your return for additional questions should the need
arise.

The process for the interview will be as follows: The minority will be given
45 minutes to ask questions. Then the majority will be given 45 minutes to ask
questions. We will take any brakes that you desire, after which time, we will
continue to 15-minute intervals until questions are complete. Time will be kept by
myself for each section with 5-minute and 1-minute marks being provided
respectively.

To ensure confidentiality, we ask that you do not discuss the interview with
anyone other than your attorney. And you are reminded that it is unlawful to
deliberately provide false information to Members of Congress or staff. Lastly, the
record will reflect that you are voluntarily participating in this interview, which will
be under oath.

Mr. Lewandowski, would you raise your hand to be sworn, sir?

Thank you. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole,

truth and nothing but the truth? Do you swear?

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MR. SCHIFF: And how did that come up?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't remember exactly, but he and | were
discussing an unrelated topic, and | said to him that | had been asked by the
committee to come. | told him that. And his response to me was: Go tell the
truth.

MR. SCHIFF: Now | thought that you had written to the committee to say
that it was a conversation the day before your testimony before this committee,
your prior testimony, that the President had told you to tell the truth.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It may have been on that occasion, but | can't with
100 percent certainty say that was the occasion, but the only time | recall having a
conversation with the President about anything relevant to this committee was
when | told him | had been asked to come to the committee, and his response was
to tell the truth.

MR. SCHIFF: And why did you bring that up with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | thought it would be relevant that he should know
that | was going to appear before the committee.

MR. SCHIFF: And why did you think he should know that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Because the news was going to report that | was
going to appear.

MR. SCHIFF: And were you looking for his guidance on what you should
do in the testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did | understand your testimony earlier that you had a
conversation with the President about his never meeting any Russians, and you

had a conversation with the President about having better relations with Russia.

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message, Russia has been eager to meet Mr. Trump for quite some time and have
been reaching out to me to discuss. | thought it would be prudent to send to you.
I'm free to discuss if you are free.

So why would Mr. Papadopoulos be communicating with Mr. Manafort at
that point in time and not you?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's a question for Mr. Papadopoulos.

MS. SPEIER: So he would have had access to Mr. Manafort's email, much
like he had access to your email?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | think all the emails were first initial last name
@DonaldTrump.com, so anybody would have access to all of the emails.

MS. SPEIER: So it appears that Mr. Manafort forwarded this email to Rick
Gates: Let's discuss. We need someone to communicate that DT is not doing
these trips. It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any
signal.

Had there been conversations about trips that surrogates could make on
behalf of the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall.

MS. SPEIER: So you didn't have any conversations with Mr. Manafort
about surrogates taking trips?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my knowledge, | did not.

MS. SPEIER: So can you interpret what Mr. Manafort meant by saying it
should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send a signal. What
could possibly he have meant?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have no idea what Mr. Manafort meant.

MS. SPEIER: So, again, you're still the campaign manager on June 7th,

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MR. SCHIFF: What else do you recall him saying about it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | responded to him saying that something
to the effect of: Donny Jr. should have known better.

And he said something along the lines of: You're right about that, but he
was trying to help.

MR. SCHIFF: And what else do you recall the President saying?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall much more of the conversation other
than the basic parameters are -- were that he outlined to me it was a short
meeting, it was dumb to do, and he believed that his son was trying to help.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he bring up the effort to characterize it as about
adoptions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not bring that up to me, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he give you any indication of whether he knew about the
meeting prior to its becoming public?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SCHIFF: And when you say he did not, he didn't give you any
indication one way or the other?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He never told me that he was aware that the
meeting took place prior to it becoming public.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he discuss with you at all what his son had hoped to
acquire at the meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He didn't.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he tell you what he thought of the response that the
administration had given, the statement that they had issued?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe he and | discussed the statement

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the Senate, any House or Senate committees?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Can you repeat the question, please?

MR. QUIGLEY: At any time previous to any testimony you have given or it
was suggested you might give, before any House, Senate committees or before
the special counsel, your conversations with the President, were there any other
times, other than the one you just mentioned where he said, "tell the truth," that
you talked to the President about your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He never instructed me to testify one way or the
other, never.

MR. QUIGLEY: But did you talk about it with him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: About my testimony and what | would say? | did
not.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did he talk to you at all about your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: In all the conversations that you could possibly imagine,
remember before your first or second testimony, not just before the House?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did anyone else associated with the campaign or with the
White House talk to you before your first interview here or before any testimony
you were going to be asked to give about what you should or shouldn't say?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to anyone else, other than your attorney,
about what you might say?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | might have told my wife | was coming here

because | figured someone would leak it anyways.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe she came to the campaign after | had
already left, so it would have been post June 20.

Hr minute.

MS. SPEIER: So what was her role? Do you know what her role was?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe she served on the communications team,
but | didn't work directly with her.

MS. SPEIER: How about Sam Nunberg's role on the campaign, what was
his role?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He was an adviser to the campaign, and an
adviser to Mr. Trump prior to us launching the campaign.

MS. SPEIER: So he had worked for Mr. Trump for quite a while at that
point, hadn't he?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He had worked for Mr. Trump for a series of years
prior to the campaign, yes.

MS. SPEIER: So he knew him pretty well?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: So he became involved in the campaign at what point?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Nunberg was part of the campaign from its
inception.

MS. SPEIER: Did you highly regard him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: Who did?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm not sure anybody did.

HS. Stewart.

MS. SPEIER: Well -- go ahead.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, he did not.

MS. SPEIER: All right.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Lewandowski, if | could, just one other followup question
before | yield to Mr. Swalwell.

Regarding the statement that was produced about the Trump Tower
meeting, did you ever discuss that with Mr. Corello (ph)?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: There have been public reports that Mr. Corello (ph) was
concerned that the statement that they were putting out might constitute an act of
obstruction of justice. Did you ever discuss that issue with Hope Hicks?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | didn't -- to the best of my knowledge, | didn't
discuss any conversations that Ms. Hicks might have had with Mr. Corello (ph) at
all.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss a concern whether putting out a false
statement about the meeting in Trump Tower might constitute an act of
obstruction? Did you ever discuss that with Hope Hicks or anyone else?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SCHIFF: | yield to Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump know Erik Prince?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever see them together?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection.

MR. SWALWELL: Has he ever talked about Erik Prince?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't remember a direct conversation about

Mr. Prince, no.

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when Mr. Mueller indicted Mr. Papadopoulos.

MR. SCHIFF: So no one ever informed you that Mr. Papadopoulos or
anyone else from the campaign had been contacted by Russians or Russian
intermediaries about stolen DNC or Clinton emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SCHIFF: After you learned about this through the Papadopoulos plea
and subsequent to that conversation with the President, did you discuss the
Papadopoulos interaction with the Russians with anyone else in the
administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know. | don't recall specific conversations,
sir.

MR. SCHIFF: Did anyone in the administration ever indicate to you that
they -- not at the time, but after the plea -- that they had been aware that
Papadopoulos was having discussions with the Russians?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: My colleague asked you about different efforts to set upa
meeting between the President and Mr. Putin during the campaign. You attended
the NRA dinner during the campaign that the President also attended?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I did. It wasn'ta dinner. It was just a speech.

He did not sit for dinner.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you observe any interactions between the President
and any of the Russian guests who were present for that NRA event?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | wouldn't have recalled any specific interactions
that would have been out of the ordinary, no, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you aware at that time of an effort through the NRA to

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HE Thank you.

That's it. Back over to you, Ms. Speier.

MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Speier.

MS. SPEIER: Mr. Chavkin, let me just ask you a couple question. Did
you talk to any member of the majority staff before the first interview?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm not here testifying, Ms. Speier.

MS. SPEIER: | know you're not here to testify, but we are -- we do want to
know whether or not you had conversations with any members of the majority staff
before the first interview?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm not going to answer questions by the committee at this
point. I'm not here as a witness.

MS. SPEIER: Well, you're here representing your client.

MR. CHAVKIN: Absolutely.

MS. SPEIER: So it's conceivable that you had a conversation with the
majority staff in terms of representing your client. Did you?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm not getting into any conversation ! did or did not have.
I'm not here as a witness, Ms. Speier. I'm here to advise Mr. Lewandowski with
respect to your questions.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. You said that you spoke, Mr. Lewandowski, that you
spoke to the President on Monday, correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: And how long was that conversation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Approximately 5 to 10 minutes.

MS. SPEIER: And who initiated that conversation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The President.

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The Trump Organization.

MS. SPEIER: Did he have a role in the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: But you raised your concerns -- in your previous testimony,
you raised your concerns about the disbursement to Left Hand Enterprises to
Mr. Calamari. So why would you have done that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He's a trusted individual to the President.

MS. SPEIER: But he had no role with the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate.

MS. SPEIER: So, again, were you wanting him to convey that to the
President, then-candidate, | mean?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | thought it was important that | notified individuals
who | knew the President trusted, then-candidate Trump trusted, of my concerns
about Mr. Manafort and the spending.

MS. SPEIER: So there was a third $5 million transaction that you
previously acknowledged being made. How was the potential for this transaction
uncovered?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my knowledge, on the day | left the
campaign, Mr. Manafort asked for a $5 million transaction to then Jeff Dewitt, and
Mr. Dewitt asked to have Mr. Trump's initial on the piece of paper before he wired
the money.

MS. SPEIER: So the money was wired with candidate Trump's initial on it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my knowledge, the $5 million was
never wired.

MS. SPEIER: It was never wired?

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this guessing game?

MR.

. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Scavino would have had -- to the best of my

knowledge, Mr. Scavino, Mr. Schiller, potentially Mr. Glassner.

MS. SPEIER: Mr. Glassner?

MR

MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.

with him?

MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.

. LEWANDOWSKI:  Glassner, yes.

SPEIER: And can you refresh my memory of who he is?
LEWANDOWSKI: The deputy campaign manager.

SPEIER: So it was a — did you use it with any of the Trump children?
LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

SPEIER: Mr. Kushner?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, ma‘am.

SPEIER: Have you ever had a Proton mail account?
LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know what that is, no, ma'am.

SPEIER: Neither do |.

LEWANDOWSKI: So maybe we both have one and don't know.
SPEIER: Okay. Sam Nunberg, did you have -- did you use Confide

LEWANDOWSKI: | did not, to my knowledge, no.
SPEIER: With George Nater?

LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know who that individual is.
SPEIER: With Amaroso Matagolf (ph)?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MS.

SPEIER: Okay. So how about Kelly Love?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS.

SPEIER: When did you first meet Kelly Love?

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Correct.

MS. SPEIER: So it never showed on any FEC report then?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate.

MS. SPEIER: So do you believe it never was provided, nonetheless?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe the money was never sent.

MS. SPEIER: So in September of 2016, after you left the campaign,
Carter Page traveled to Budapest, Hungary, where he presented himself as the
member of then-candidate Trump's foreign policy team.

There he held a 45-minute session with Geno Megyesy, M-e-g-y-e-s-y, who
was a close adviser to Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Oroban, and focuses on
relations with the United States. The meeting was held in Sgivney's office in
Budapest.

Page held another meeting at a hotel in Budapest, this one with
Szemerkenzi, S-z-e-m-e-r-k-e-n-z-i. And he initially met Szemerkenzi at the
Republican National Convention in Cleveland. You were at that convention,
correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: Did you meet this individual?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: So when did you become aware of Mr. Page's trip to
Budapest?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: About 30 seconds ago.

MS. SPEIER: Are you aware of any travel by Trump campaign personnel
to any foreign countries during the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We made a trip to Mexico. You may recall, it was

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was -- it was -- again, it was part of a larger
conversation, and the other data he was more interested in seeing than
talking — we didn't even have a discussion about the Flynn data. | just ran
through a series of points, favorable, unfavorable, et cetera, et cetera, and that
was just one of the questions.

MR. SWALWELL: And what were the numbers on that?

MR. CHAVKIN: On the Flynn?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'd have to go back and look, but, by and large, the
Republican base was opposed to a potential pardon.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk to Donald Trump at all, President Trump at
all about the Rick Gates plea?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe | have.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you have any knowledge of George -- did you have
any knowledge, prior to it being public, that, in January 2017, George
Papadopoulos was contacted by the FBI at Dulles Airport?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | had no prior knowledge, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of anyone who had prior knowledge of
that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: Around October 2016, there were public reports that
Rudy Giuliani had contact -- through Rudy Giuliani's own press interviews, he was
suggesting that the FBI might reopen its investigation into Secretary Clinton. Did
Donald Trump have knowledge of this at the time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | can't speak to that, sir. | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you have knowledge of that at the time?

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York Times -- and was asked about his foreign policy advisers, you were prepping
him at that point in time, correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm sorry; | was what?

MS. SPEIER: You would have been in the position of counseling him,
advising him, prepping him for that editorial interview?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was the campaign manager at the time, yes.

MS. SPEIER: So one of the key advisers that was identified by
then-candidate Trump was George Papadopoulos, correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, it is.

MS. SPEIER: So where did you get that name?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Dr. Clovis.

MS. SPEIER: So you did not vet him separately?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That is correct.

MS. SPEIER: And as with Carter Page, was Carter Page also identified as
one of his chief foreign policy advisers, and was that a recommendation by whom?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe we've gone through this. That
recommendation came from Mr. Cox.

MS. SPEIER: Mr. Cox, all right.

So, on May 24th, Mr. Papadopoulos emailed Paul Manafort. You're still
the campaign manager at that point in time, correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: So he sends greetings from Athens: Athens. I'm in town
for meetings with Greek Foreign Minister and Defense Minister. |'ve been told
Athens will be sending me an official invitation for Mr. Trump to visit Greece

sometime this summer, should his schedule allow. Regarding the forwarded

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don't remember the guy either.

MS. SPEIER: Did you talk to the President about Mr. Manafort after he
was indicted?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did.

Hive minutes.

MS. SPEIER: And what did you say to him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, | said, | think Paul is
a bad guy.

MS. SPEIER: That he's a bad guy or a mad guy?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Bad with a "B."

MS. SPEIER: Bad guy. And what did the President say?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, the President said
he thought he was treated unfairly when the FBI served the no-knock warrant on
his house.

MS. SPEIER: Was he astonished by the kind of money he had spent on
items?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have no idea if the President was astonished or
not.

MS. SPEIER: So there was a time during the campaign where you were
very concerned about Mr. Manafort having a separate funding source, or separate
account, if | remember correctly.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's correct.

MS. SPEIER: And if! recall correctly, you mentioned in your prior
testimony that Mr. Manafort insisted on having his own pot of money. How did

that discussion arrive? Did you push back on this demand?

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HE Good morning all. This is a transcribed interview of Corey
Lewandowski. Thank you for speaking to us today. For the record, | am i
HS BR 1212 at the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence for the majority. There are a number of other folks present in the
room who will announce their appearance as the proceedings get underway.
And, also, the record will reflect this is Mr. Lewandowski's second appearance
before the committee, having also previously appeared on January 19th of this
year.

Before we begin, | wanted to state a few things for the record. The
questioning will be conducted by members and staff. During the course of this
interview, members and staff may ask questions during their allotted time period.
Some questions may seem basic, but that is because we need to clearly establish
facts and understand the situation. Please do not assume we know any facts that
you have previously disclosed as part of any other investigation or review. This
interview will be conducted at the unclassified level. We ask that you give
complete and fulsome replies to questions based on your best recollection. Ifa
question is unclear or you are uncertain in your response, please let us know.
And if you do not know the answer to a question or cannot remember, simply say
so.

You are entitled to have counsel present during this interview, and I see
that you have done so. At this time, counsel can announce their name for the
record.

MR. CHAVKIN: Peter Chavkin, C-h-a-v-k-i-n, from Mintz Levin.

HR, Thank you. The interview will be transcribed. There is a

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question, and I'm advising him not to answer.

MR. SCHIFF: No, I'm asking about Bob Mueller.

Did you ever -- let me put it this way: -Did you ever have any conversation
with the President about the possibility of firing Bob Mueller?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm advising him not to answer.

MR. SCHIFF: Are you refusing to answer questions about the
conversations you had with the President about firing Bob Mueller?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'll take advice from counsel.

MR. SCHIFF: Earlier my colleague asked if you had been asked to lie on
behalf of the President. It was recently reported, as | mentioned earlier, that
Mr. McGahn had been asked by the President to represent publicly that he had
never been told to fire Bob Mueller.

Had you ever been given instructions by the President to say something
publicly, as a commentator in your current position, that wasn't true that had a
bearing on any of the questions we've asked you today?

MR. CHAVKIN: That's a pretty broad --

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Schiff, narrow it down into something that the
witness can talk about specifically with respect to our four questions, please.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, has the President ever asked you to communicate
publicly, through your appearances on television, something pertinent to the
Russia investigation as we have discussed during the hearing today that wasn't
true?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Deripaska ever come to your attention during the

campaign?

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SWALWELL: How about with respect to deleted Hillary Clinton
emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe Mr. Trump ever asked me about
those, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Donald Trump have any foreknowledge of
Russian-hacked emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | can't speak to Mr. Trump's knowledge --

MR. CHAVKIN: I'msorry. Sorry about that. Just to clarify, to the extent
Mr. Lewandowski knows about the President's foreknowledge --

MR. SWALWELL: Did Donald Trump ever say anything to you that led you
to believe that he had foreknowledge that Russia had hacked DNC, John Podesta,
or Hillary Clinton emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Once the Billy Bush tape was released, it was followed
by WikiLeaks releasing John Podesta emails. What was Donald Trump's reaction
to that, if you knew?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the Billy Bush tape or to --

MR. SWALWELL: No, the WikiLeaks release within hours of the Billy Bush
tape.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know. | was not in New York at that time.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk to him about the Wikileaks release of John
Podesta emails following the Billy Bush tape?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe | did, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller ever talk to you about his trip with

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The individuals that would potentially prepopulate
in my phone who have the application as well.

MS. SPEIER: And who are they?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: They range from media reporters to individuals
working on the campaign to friends.

MS. SPEIER: So during the campaign, were there other members of the
campaign staff then that you would use Confide?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe so, yes.

MS. SPEIER: Could you -- | guess, the candidate Trump didn't use email?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate.

MS. SPEIER: Or text?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Accurate.

MS. SPEIER: So he would not have used any of these apps. So would
you use it in conjunction with Mr. Manafort?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: Would you have used it with Hope Hicks?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: Would you have used it with Sam Coats? Is that his
name? Clovis. Sam Clovis?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe so, no.

MS. SPEIER: Did you use it with General Flynn?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MS. SPEIER: So, so far the only person you used it with was Ms. Hicks?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate so far.

MS. SPEIER: Well, can you identify anyone else so we don't have to do

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MR. SWALWELL: Did President Trump tell you whether he knew that
General Flynn had been interviewed by the FBI with respect to these
conversations?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware that, on December 29, 2016, General
Flynn had another conversation with the Russian Ambassador about Russia's
response to Obama administration sanctions for Russian interference?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to President-elect or President
Trump about what the U.S. response should be for Russian interference?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to President-elect or President
Trump about sanctions against Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Back to Mr. Prince. Did you know that he had a
relationship with UAE?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: When Paul Manafort was brought on board, did Donald
Trump have knowledge of Mr. Manafort's prior work with Ukraine?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know the answer to that.

MR. SWALWELL: It's something that Mr. Trump never brought up to you?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That is correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of Mr. Manafort's prior work with
Ukraine?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

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television.

MR. QUIGLEY: And your conversations with General Kelly, what was the
last time you spoke with General Kelly?

MR. CHAVKIN: Are we talking about the topic of --

MR. QUIGLEY: | just want to find out the last time he spoke with General
Kelly first.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | spoke with General Kelly on Sunday.

MR. QUIGLEY: And what did you talk about with General Kelly?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, Mr. Quigley, same rabbit hole. You want to ask a
specific quéstion about whether his conversations with General Kelly related to --

MR. QUIGLEY: Well, since it was Sunday, did you talk to him about the
special counsel's investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to him about policy toward Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to him about Russian sanctions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI:_ No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to him about the FBI Director or James
Comey at all?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to him about the actions of Attorney General
Rod Rosenstein?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Or the actions and the investigation by Special Counsel

Mueller?

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trying to help you get to the point and you are trying to get to the point where he
doesn't answer questions. However you phrase this, | am trying to do this a little
bit shorthand so we can not beat the dead horse.

MR. CHAVKIN: No, | appreciate that and admire the effort. What! think
the last question is a different question from what you have asked before, so could
you repeat it, please?

MR. QUIGLEY: Have you had any discussions with anyone at the White
House during transition or since the inauguration about the Russian investigations
in Congress

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: And who were those conversations with?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | discussed it with Ms. Hicks, Mr. Schiller,
Mr. Bannon, very likely other members of the communications team of the White
House.

MR. QUIGLEY: Can you name some of them?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Could have been Mr. Spicer, Mr. Priebus.
Probably Mr. Kelly, Mr. Miller.

MR. QUIGLEY: Is that general?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is.

MR. QUIGLEY: What was the most recent of these conversations?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The best recollection that | have is probably some
90 days ago.

MR. QUIGLEY: Who was that with?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Probably Ms. Hicks.

MR. QUIGLEY: And what did you tell her?

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that presentation of documents with anybody in the administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have.not.

MR. SCHIFF: And | think you said earlier, but just for the record, are you
refusing to answer questions about conversations you had with the President
about the firing of James Comey?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm advising him that that's not pertinent.

MR. SCHIFF: So you're refusing to answer those questions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm taking the advice of counsel.

MR. SCHIFF: You've probably seen public reports that the President met
in the Oval Office with Russians and discussed having gotten rid of James Comey.
Did you discuss that meeting with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: You mean the meeting as it related to the public
reports of Russians in the Oval Office? | never discussed that meeting with the
President, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss that meeting with anyone else in the
administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not that I recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: It was reported this week that the President instructed
Mr. McGahn to publicly state that he had never ordered Bob Mueller's firing and
that Mr. McGahn told the President that he wouldn't because that wasn't true. Did
you ever discuss that with the President?

MR. CHAVKIN: That statement that he told McGahn?

MR. SCHIFF: The interaction that he had with Mr. McGahn about the
Comey firing -- I'm sorry, about the potential of firing Mueller.

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, Mr. Schiff, that is exactly the same as the Comey

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conversation.

MR. SCHIFF: And in related to about his meeting with Putin, did he
discuss with you their discussion about Russia's role in the hacking of emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss with anyone at the White House the
GOP memo on the FISA application involving Carter Page?

MR. CHAVKIN: We are talking about the recent memo?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MR. CHAVKIN: Okay.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe I've had a conversation with anyone
at the White House on that, no, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you had a conversation with anyone affiliated with the
campaign about the GOP memo?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection, no.

[Recess.]

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go through that process. But it's better done if that is done privately, not publicly,
and not before the media and not before the cameras.

And | just feel like it's worth making that point that this has had a real impact
on individuals’ lives, and that that's unfortunate, and sometimes unnecessary.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Mr. Chairman, | yield back.

MR. KING: Yeah. | would like to emphasize that point. | mean, I've been
involved in different investigations over the years, and different people, you know,
are bad guys. There's other people you may have questions about. But! think
this investigation -- maybe it's true of others. But so many innocent people get
swept up into it and people forget, you know, the human cost.

| remember during the Clinton administration, one person happened to be in
the Oval Office. When some other meeting was beginning, he was leaving, cost
him 100,000 legal fees. He had nothing to do with the first meeting or the second.
He happened to be there and his name was listed on the roster.

So | think we should keep that in mind. And just because somebody is
near the party, doesn't make them the enemy. And, again, I'm not here to testify,
but I'm just saying that | have no reason to doubt any of your testimony.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Schiff, 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, when we last left off, we concluded
with my asking for an email that you referenced about a VIP reception. And your
counsel said, Congressman, in the spirit of cooperation, which we really have
pledged from the beginning, we'll try to get you access to that.

Did you bring those emails today?

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establish a channel with the Russians, a back channel with the Russians?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did it ever come to your attention, either at that time or
thereafter, that the Russians might be funneling money through the NRA?

“MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | had no knowledge of that whatsoever.

MR. SCHIFF: No one ever raised a concern to you or alerted you that
there might be money going to the NRA from the Russians?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Never.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

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General Kelly if it has nothing to with this committee. He wanted to know how my
trip was Greece was because | had just gone over and made a speech which is
not relevant to anything that transpires here, so why | have to disclose my
conversation with General Kelly, which was a personal conversation about how my
travel went, is not relevant to the committee's jurisdiction. It's very simple.

MR. QUIGLEY: It makes it a lot easier if you -- no one is going to want to
know the details of those, but it answers the questions, and we can move on
because the rabbit hole goes on forever if you don't answer it because we have to
keep asking to find out if isn't any one of -- we have to negate all the other things it
can't be because you won't answer it.

MR. CHAVKIN: Mr. Quigley.

MR. QUIGLEY: It is a deep, deep hole.

MR. CHAVKIN: | don't want to cut you off. Are you finished? Because
one thing | have learned about the minority members on this committee is that
there is no answer that will be sufficient because the next answer will lead to
another question so that you can have your sound byte that Mr. Lewandowski
didn't answer some question.

MR. QUIGLEY: | am looking for the cameras.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Oh, | am sure you guys all know where the
cameras are.

MR. CHAVKIN: In fact, last time, you managed to see the cameras during
Mr. Lewandowski's appearance.

MR. CONAWAY: Gentlemen, let's get back on topic.

MR. QUIGLEY: Have you ever talked to anyone on the majority staff about

your testimony?

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MS. SPEIER: So he was basically saying, "You're going to be closer to me
in terms of what I'm doing," almost like a body man kind of thing?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | always traveled with the candidate.

MS. SPEIER: So, after that June 7th speech in which he may have or may
not have extemporaneously talked about a major speech the next week, you didn't
feel compelled to say to him, "What is this going to be on, where are we going to
do it, what's the location of this major speech going to be?"

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: Why wouldn't you do that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | didn't feel there was a need to do that.

MS. SPEIER: You were the still the campaign manager. No comment?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI!: Your statement is accurate. | was still the
campaign manager.

MS. SPEIER: But as the campaign manager, aren't you supposed to be in
the know about major speeches that are going to be given and what they're going
to be about? | mean, don't you sort of plan-that out?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: And that wasn't happening as to this speech that was going
to take place the following week?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: There was no decision to make a major speech
other than the extemporaneous words that Mr. Trump gave that night.

MS. SPEIER: So, as campaign manager earlier in the campaign, you no
doubt did opposition research on Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, that's not accurate.

MS. SPEIER: Most campaigns do that.

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MR. QUIGLEY: What was that conversation about?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The conversation didn't pertain to anything about
this committee.

MR. QUIGLEY: Well, what did you talk about?

MR. CHAVKIN: | am going to advise my client that he is not going to
answer a question that broad. That's a fishing expedition. If you want to ask him
whether he discussed any one of the parameters or anything related to those four
parameters, that's fair game. But you are not going to go into what his
conversations with the President entailed.

MR. QUIGLEY: It gets to where Mr. Schiff was. The conversation could
be about a multitude of things, and that would be a fishing expedition -- if | started
listing 50 things that, in your mind, may or may not be pertinent: discussions
about sanctions, discussions about Russia, discussions about election issues and
involvement by other countries. So, if we have to do it that way, it's a much
longer fishing expedition. You don't want 8-hour interviews, just answer that
question.

MR. CHAVKIN: He's not going to answer a general question about what
he talked about with the President that has nothing to do with the parameters of
this committee. If you want to start asking him about specifics, whether that came
up in the conversation, that's fine.

MR. QUIGLEY: Again, Mr. Chairman, all | can say is | don't know how else
to do this, and if the attorney is going to be allowed to dictate exactly how every bit
of this testimony goes, it is not going to be particularly productive.

MR. CONAWAY: Michael, all | can say is keep asking the questions that

you want answered.

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[1:00 p.m.]

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, you talked about that the polling data
you provided to the President with respect to pardoning Mr. Flynn was in the
context of the larger project. Does that properly characterize that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That was part of a larger poll, and that was one of
the questions.

MR. SWALWELL: Were there other questions in that poll about Russia or
the Russia investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: So the only part of that poll that related to Russia or the
Russia investigation or any investigation into President Trump or the campaign
was the one question on whether General Flynn should be pardoned?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone ask you to put that in the poll?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No. It wasn't my poll.

MR. SWALWELL: Whose poll was it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was shared to me from a common vendor. So it
wasn't something | paid for or was privy to prior to it going into the field, but the
results were provided to me after they were publicly available.

MR. SWALWELL: Who paid for it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know the answer to that.

MR. SWALWELL: Who was the vendor?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: McLaughlin and Associates (ph).

MR. SWALWELL: What was the President's reaction when you told him

about the polling data with respect to pardoning General Flynn?

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MR. SCHIFF: Or how the administration responded to the press reports of
the meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: So you've never discussed that meeting in any way, shape
or form with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Other than to say what I've said publicly, which |
thought it was politically a very stupid thing to do to have that meeting, and it
should have been vetted through the legal team first.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did you have that conversation with the
President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: After the media reports of the story coming out.

MR. SCHIFF: And how soon after that would that conversation have taken
place?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Potentially within a week.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you -- where did the conversation take place, over the
phone or in person?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe it was a telephone conversation.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he call you, or did you call him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't remember who initiated that call.

MR. SCHIFF: And who brought up the topic of the meeting at Trump
Tower and the administration response?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe Mr. Trump brought that up.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did he say when he brought it up?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He acknowledged it was a short, stupid meeting

too and probably shouldn't have taken place.

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matter, that does not include smearing the current President of the United States.

As Congressman Rooney put it, before this investigation, quote, "we were
there just to find out what our spies were doing and what we are doing in the
clandestine world and the Intelligence Community and help them do their job," end
quote.

| want to reiterate, when | advise Mr. Lewandowski not to answer a question
that's not pertinent, just so we are absolutely 100 percent crystal clear, he is not
invoking a privilege; he is being guided by his lawyer on the most basic legal right
of every American, which | believe in my heart every member of this committee
wants to honor.

Thank you for affording me the time, Mr. Chairman.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Schiff, 45 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Before | yield to my colleague | want to respond to counsel. First of all,
that was a very nice speech.

MR. QUIGLEY: Ora lecture.

MR. SCHIFF: There was a stunning lack of preparation before Mr.
Lewandowsk's last appearance, but it wasn't by the minority. It was by Mr.
Lewandowski and yourself. To come before this committee and say, "We are not
going to answer any questions, however relevant they may be, as to anything that
Mr. Lewandowski saw or heard about the issue of collusion after he left the
campaign, because we are not prepared," and that's what you said, was a
stunning lack of preparation.

Now, actually, | don't think it was because of lack of preparation. | think

you were all too prepared for those questions and had just made the decision that

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communications on behalf of Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No knowledge at all.

MR. SWALWELL: I'll yield back to Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Lewandowski, | think you said when you testified
previously that you were unaware of the June 9 meeting at Trump Tower at the
time it was taking place. Is that correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did you first learn about that meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | learned about it from the public media reports.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you a party at all to the discussion about how to
handle those news reports that took place between the President, the President's
son, Hope Hicks, and others while the President was returning from his trip?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm sorry. Can you just repeat that question? |
was trying to understand it.

MR. SCHIFF: Yes. Were you a part of the discussions that were taking
place at the time the story first became public about how to respond, the
discussions between the President, the President's son, Hope Hicks, and others
as the President was returning from Europe?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm going to advise Mr. Lewandowski that that's not
pertinent. And let me explain, if | may, Mr. Schiff, why.

Public characterizations of events, how the matter was going to be
presented to the public are, in my view, not pertinent. And | say that quite
advisedly because | don't think it's just my view.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, I'm really -- it is so clearly relevant. |'m really not

interested in your --

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Was the first time you heard his name after the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did you first learn of Mr. Deripaska?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Just through public reports.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss Mr. Deripaska with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Never.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss him with anyone else in the
administration?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me just do a final review and | think we may be done.

Have you had any conversations with Mr. McGahn since you left the White
House -- or, I'm sorry, since you left the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And have these conversations been pertinent to any of the
questions we've asked you today?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, if | may adopt what the chair has suggested, you
mean relating to the Russia parameters?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, not as you define them, Counsel, but as we have
defined them through our questions today.

So have you discussed any of the matters that have been covered by your
testimony today with Mr. McGahn?

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm going to advise him not to answer that.

MR. SCHIFF: That's absurd, Counsel, with all due respect. What we've

been asking about has been directly pertinent to the investigation, and | don't want

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MS. SPEIER: So were you being eased out of the campaign at that point?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: By June 9th, yes.

MS. SPEIER: When were you being eased out of the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: My final day was June 20th.

MS. SPEIER: No, | understand that. But when did you start seeing the
shift of power to Mr. Manafort?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know what date that would be.

MS. SPEIER: You said you were being eased out by then. | mean, you
must have had some notice at that point in time that you were no longer going to
be:the campaign manager. What happened or what gave you that impression?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: There was a meeting sometime in late, mid to late
May of the restructuring of the campaign. And so that would have been made -- |
would have been made aware of it at that time.

MS. SPEIER: So that meeting took place where, that restructuring
meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: In Trump Tower.

MS. SPEIER: Was it in Mr. Trump's office?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: Who was actually running that meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Kushner.

MS. SPEIER: So was he -- had he had a conversation with you before that
meeting on restructuring that you were going to be eased out of your position?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No. It was a -- a new organizational chart was
established.

MS. SPEIER: And in that organizational chart, what was your -- where

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MR. CONAWAY: Thank you.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you bring -- and Mr. Quigley asked you this earlier,
but you also did pledge that you would give us the cell phone number for the
President?

MR. CHAVKIN: We've been over this.

MR. SWALWELL: And you're refusing --

MR. KING: | would just say, the last thing we need is CNN getting the
President's telephone number.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you, Mr. King.

MR. KING: And! mean that sincerely. This has gone on for too long.
And to ask for the President of the United States cell phone number is --

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. King, do you want to sit over there with them?

MR. KING: No. I'm sitting here as a member telling you when it's out of
line, because | know exactly what you have in mind.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you want to sit over there?

MR. KING: I'm sitting where | am.

MR. SWALWELL: You can join them, if you'd like.

MR. KING: You don't tell me where to sit. |'m sitting right here. You
want to move me?

MR. CONAWAY: Peter. Peter. Can | -- their 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: If! could, Mr. Chairman, we're not interested in the
President's current cell phone number. Mr. Swalwell did ask if you were aware of
the cell phone number he used during the campaign, and you said you were. And
he asked if you would provide it, and you said you would.

We have phone records -- this is more information than you need to know,

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Is that not true?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: As a result of that, has a negative cloud in any
way been cast over your reputation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Of course, sir, yes.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Has it been cast over, in some ways, the
reputation of some of your associates?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It has.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Or other people around you?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, sir.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: And | want you to state one more time whether
you ever witnessed collusion or conspiracy between yourself or any other
individuals in the Trump campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | never witnessed any collusion, conspiracy
between myself or anyone else in the Trump campaign.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: And yet, you've been accused of that publicly?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, sir.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: How have those allegations impacted your
personal life?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Well, it's very difficult, more so for my family
and -- who doesn't understand the full extent of how unfortunate those allegations
are.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: How about your professional life?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It's clearly caused my ability to earn income with

certain entities not to be able to materialize.

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So we make that request, Mr. Chairman. We will continue with our
questions because | know you want to take that under consideration, but no
credible investigation can be conducted if the witness decides what questions he
will answer and what questions he won't, particularly ones that are so clearly
pertinent to our investigation.

MR. CHAVKIN: That is an especially skewed representation of what this
witness has told you. He is prepared to answer whether he had conversations
connected with Russia, connected with this investigation, and he answered that.

MR. SCHIFF: That you deem connected.

MR. CHAVKIN: No, no, no. It has to do with what your questions ask.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, you are reserving the right to decide without
explaining any basis.

MR. CHAVKIN: lam explaining the basis, Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel --

MR. CHAVKIN:  -- to test Mr. Lewandowski's --

MR. CONAWAY: One atatime. One ata time.

MR. SCHIFF: Let's just go on with the questions.

MR. QUIGLEY: Allright. | know nobody wants to be here 8 hours, so |
will go through a punch list of what you -- any time during the campaign, transition,
and post-inauguration, did you talk to the President of the United States about
Russian investigations in Congress?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, the only
conversation | recall having with the President, the President-elect or the
candidate would have been me telling him that | was there from the beginning of

the campaign and never saw a Russian, never interacted with a Russian. And he

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about Michael Cohen, as his office was directly next to Mr. Trump's.

MS. SPEIER: So since the election, and more recently, as the disclosure
of $130,000 was made by Mr. Cohen on behalf of himself, have you hada
conversation with the President about that transaction?

MR. CHAVKIN: Can I -- I'm really intrigued as how that possibly could
relate --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The answer is no.

MR. CHAVKIN: -- to this committee.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It has nothing to do with it, but the answer is,no. |
haven't spoken to the President about Mr. Cohen or any transaction that
Mr. Cohen may or may not have made.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. You also mentioned that Jared Kushner was
involved in the investigation into these transactions. To the best of your
knowledge, what was his role?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Kushner was an adviser to the campaign.

MS. SPEIER: So -- but did he have some accounting role, or why is it it
was brought to his attention?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not have an accounting role, but he was, at
the end of the campaign and progressively before the campaign ended, tasked
with the allocation of funds for social media activity.

MS. SPEIER: And were either of these transactions about social media
though?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: So Matt Calamari, who is Matt Calamari?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe his title is the chief operating officer of

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Are you asking me are there any other applications
on my phone that! use? Yes, there's a number of them. The Wall Street Journal
app, The New York Times, | mean --

MS. SPEIER: For purposes of communication.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: There's also a messenger app, which is standard
text messaging, yes.

MS. SPEIER: Which one of these apps did you use in the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Text message would be something | would have
used in the campaign, as well as Snapchat.

MS. SPEIER: And did you use Confide during the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did.

MS. SPEIER: So you used Snapchat, Confide, and Signal, did you say?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | did not use Signal during the campaign.

MS. SPEIER: Allright. So text, Snapchat, Confide. Anything else?

Hive minutes.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection. Trust,
potentially.

MS. SPEIER: How did you distinguish which of these apps to use? As |
understand it, for instance, Confide kind of self-destructs after it's sent. So did
you use that app a great deal?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: As it relates to the number of messages | sent and
received, it was not a plurality of messages on that application, no.

MS. SPEIER: Did you specifically use that application with certain people?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: And to whom would those be?

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devices?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you, since the campaign and once this
investigation was launched, have you talked to any individuals about the Russia
investigation on those messaging devices?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe so, no.

Hive minutes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you have any knowledge of -- let me back up.

As someone who was the campaign manager and followed the campaign
once you left, were you aware that the NRA was using independent expenditures
to support Donald Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was not aware of that.

MR. SWALWELL: You never saw any NRA ads or communications during
the campaign to support Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | was not aware of the independent
expenditure program the NRA was running.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you see -- well, aside from the independent
expenditure program, did you see television and digital ads that the NRA was
running for Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: If | did, | don't recall them.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware that the NRA was supporting Mr.
Trump during the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you have any knowledge of the sources of funding

_ that the NRA were using to pay for the digital and television and radio

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MR. QUIGLEY: Before your second -- before today's testimony, anybody
associated with the campaign or the White House, before your testimony here or
any other testimony you may have given or might give, anyone talk to you about it
in any way, shape or form?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, other than counsel,
no one has instructed me to testify one way or another on any topic that would be
pertinent to this committee, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did they talk to you about your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: They did not.

MR. QUIGLEY: Going back a minute. You mentioned in your first
interview that you normally communicated with the candidate at the time in person
or by cell phone. You testified that Mr. Trump at the time used a 212 number
during the campaign and you would provide us with that number. Do you have
that information today?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do not.

MR. QUIGLEY: Is it your intention to produce that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | think if you want the President's cell phone
number, you should call the White House.

MR. QUIGLEY: Again, Mr. Chairman --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is not my obligation to provide you with the
President's cell phone number. Sorry.

MR. QUIGLEY: It is your responsibility to provide production as requested.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: If you want the President's cell phone number, you
can call the White House and get it or call General Kelly. He might be able to

share it with you.

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MR. SCHIFF: Chairman, do you want to see -- would you like a break at
all?

MR. CHAVKIN: No. We'd like to get this done, but thank you.

MR. QUIGLEY: And for the record, | hope you get home to your family.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: | understand why you do want to get this done.
I think many of us share that as well.

I'm going to ask you a series of questions, and | want you to know that in
doing so, I'm giving you an opportunity to answer that | wished every witness who
had been before this committee had had a chance to answer these questions.

Earlier, you stated, | want to give you a chance to state it again with clarity,
while working with the Trump campaign, did you ever participate or witness any
Collusion or conspiracy between any member of the Trump campaign, including
the President himself, and any Russian agents or Russian individuals?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Never, no.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Never, no, not at all?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Never, sir, no.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Okay. Have you heard your name publicly
associated with some of the allegations regarding conspiracy and collusion?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Have you publicly been accused of conspiracy
and collusion in some of these interactions that you've seen with individuals,
whether it's on television or other speaking or other public interactions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: You, yourself, have been accused of these.

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appearance, and that was very troubling on a number of levels. First, he was
lumped in with two other witnesses who had invoked executive privilege, which he
had not done. He never once invoked executive privilege or, for that matter, any
privilege.

Second, members of the minority suggested very pointedly that Mr.
Lewandowski was stonewalling the committee at the request of the White House
when there wasn'ta single bit of evidence to support that. And, indeed, Mr.
Lewandowski had testified under oath that he had not been asked by the White
House to decline to answer any question put by this committee.

And, thirdly, the minority did not -- members of the minority did not
acknowledge that Mr. Lewandowski had answered every single question put to
him for 8 hours about his time in the campaign, suggesting that he had avoided
answering questions. And to Congressman King's great credit, as he pointed out
during the hearing, Mr. Lewandowski's testimony was as detailed or more detailed
than any other witness who had come before the committee to that point. None
of that, none of that was disclosed to the media. Instead, a skewed portrait of
what happened was put out on the airwaves. In addition, no one mentioned from
the minority side that Mr. Lewandowski had pledged to return.

Now that would have been troubling if it had been aberrational, but the
problem for us was compounded by the fact that this appeared to be part of a
pattern. And if | may, Mr. Chairman, | want to just quote from something that
Congressman Rooney, who was the chair for our hearing last time, put out bravely
and eloquently to The New York Times. As he said, and | quote: The House
Russia investigation has just completely gone off the rails politically. It has

become a tool for Democrats, whether it be Members or staff, to use to drive the

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MR. SWALWELL: Why did you do that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Because, from time to time, | provide the President
polling data.

MR. SWALWELL: Was a pardon being considered by the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you think that was something he would want to
know because he might be considering a pardon?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was part of a larger context of recent data that |
was providing the President.

MR. SWALWELL: | can yield back.

HE. Chairman.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: I'm interested -- again, taking a little bit of a
different tack. Do you understand the rules of the engagement on this? This is a
closed session?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, sir.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: And being closed is not classified, but it's
supposed to be confidential. Is that true?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, sir.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: There was a bit of a heated line of questioning
regarding honesty and the President and some of those communications. Is your
fear now that that's going to be leaked, that that will be talked about in the press?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It is, sir.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: So you sit here trying to answer the
questions -- some of them may or may not be appropriate -- and your worry is that

now someone is going to go to the press and describe that conversation as you

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to him about the FBI Director?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you talk to General Kelly about Michael Cohen?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Ever?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall ever having a conversation with
General Kelly about Michael Cohen.

MR. QUIGLEY: Just so you can say one more time, because we are
having to go through this exercise, you talked to General Kelly on Sunday and you
didn't talk about the House, this House committee investigating Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That is correct. | did not speak to General Kelly
about that.

MR. QUIGLEY: And you can't tell us what you talked to General Kelly
about just a few days ago.

MR. CHAVKIN: No, no, that's not --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Well, | can.

MR. CHAVKIN: He can. He is being advised that that's not pertinent.
He has also answered now what looks to me like a dozen questions about what he
spoke with Mr. Kelly about.

MR. QUIGLEY: He won't answer the things that --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | -- General Kelly asked how my trip to Greece was
that | had just returned from on Sunday.

MR. SCHIFF: That would have short-circuited --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It's none of your fucking business why | talked to

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MR. SWALWELL: And I'm not talking about building a relationship. !'m
talking about actually meeting with him during the campaign. Were you aware
that there were efforts by outside -- multiple outside individuals to make that
happen?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm aware that Mr. Cohen attempted, or had an
email to try and make that happen upon, | believe it was, Mr. Putin's arrival in
New York for the UNGA.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Mr. Trump made aware of that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI:_ | don't know the answer. | don't know the answer
to that.

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that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you ever involved while you were working for the
campaign, during the transition, and to present day in the facilitation of payments
from Donald Trump, anyone at The Trump Organization, or a Trump family
member to silence an individual from talking about Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was not.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you have any knowledge of any of those
arrangements?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: Has Donald Trump ever asked you to lie for him?

MR. CHAVKIN: Whoa, this is Groundhog Day. You did this with Hope
Hicks apparently, according to the press.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, has he ever asked you to lie for him?

MR. CHAVKIN: He's not going to answer a question about whether the
President ever asked him to lie. If you want to ask the question about whether
the President asked him to lie about his testimony, about Russia, about collusion,
fair game.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, are you refusing to answer whether
Donald Trump has ever asked you to lie for him?

MR. CHAVKIN: Corey, | advise you not to answer.

MR. SWALWELL: For the record, the witness is not answering.

Have you ever seen Donald Trump ask others to lie for him?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, it's the same advice, Corey. And | will also say,

for the record, Mr. Swalwell, you're not trying to narrow that question as you

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that | am aware of between myself and the principal.

MR. QUIGLEY: Any conversations, communications with the President,
with the candidate, the same timeframe, sir, involving former FBI Director James
Comey?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, that is a question that has nothing to do with the
parameters of this investigation by this committee.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, it has everything to do with the parameters of our
investigation and the U.S. Government response to the Russian hacking of our
election. So you can instruct your witness not to answer the question, but don't
tell us it's not pertinent.

MR. CHAVKIN: | am instructing him on the basis of pertinence.

MR. QUIGLEY: Let's just -- | will play the game. This committee's
investigation began with Director Comey announcing that there was an
investigation and that -- when it started and why and the fact that there was
Russian interference and it was to help one candidate and not another. So that's
kind of the crux of why we're here is because of that investigation starting and the
fact that Director Comey was the one that announced it to the world and the fact
that since then, oh, by the way, he has been fired by the same President of the
United States. So, in a million years, | am trying to imagine how you figure that's
not pertinent because if that's not pertinent, being here 8 to 10 hours would be a
waste of time. If that's not pertinent, you are wasting everybody's time.

MR. CHAVKIN: Obviously, we disagree, Mr. Quigley. Mr. Lewandowski
has answered a great number of your questions already.

MR. QUIGLEY: How about how Mr. Comey was fired, Director Comey

was fired? Never have a conversation about that?

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MS. SPEIER: And did he complain about the committee to you at that
time, the House committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We had no discussion about the committee at all.

MS. SPEIER: He didn't complain to you about this being a hoax?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We had no discussion regarding Russia or the
committee's work at all.

MS. SPEIER: Did he comment on your loyalty?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, he did not.

MS. SPEIER: So when you had this conversation, and you're not clear, to
my understanding, whether it was this conversation or the one before your initial
interview, and there was a confirmation that you hadn't met with any Russians,
and that the President hadn't met with any Russians. Did the President initiate
that confirmation statement?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No. | did.

MS. SPEIER: You did. And how did that come up?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That discussion did not take place on Monday. It
took place some months ago, and | believe it is when -- | don't recall the exact day
of the discussion, but | stated to him -- | was at the campaign from the beginning
and was unequivocal, in my belief, that | had never met a Russian or interacted
with any Russian during the campaign. And he said, You're right. You were
there from the beginning, and | never did either.

MS. SPEIER: And that was just a comment you made apropos of nothing?
It just sort of was something that popped into your head? It wasn't part of a
conversation about the potential relationship or intervention of the Russians in the

campaign or the reference that Director Comey made about doing an

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MR. STEWART OF UTAH: You mentioned your family. Do you have
children? ,

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have four children.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Has it impacted them?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: My oldest daughter, who's 11, has access to the
internet and always questions what she sees, if it's true or not. And so she's
raised the issue to us, my wife and |, many times.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: So aside from, you mentioned your ability of
future earnings and income, has it impacted your financial well being in other
ways?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It has.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: Could you elaborate on that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: In addition to my good friend Peter, who | love,
who is in not free, look, this investigation has probably cost me north of $250,000,
which is, you know, for a guy who grew up poor in Lowell, Massachusetts, more
money than | thought I'd ever make in my life, let alone have to pay in attorney
fees.

MR. STEWART OF UTAH: All right. And | could go on on this, but | hope
I've made my point in this. Again, | ask you these questions -- and | wish we
would have been able to ask every witness who appears before this committee
those questions -- have you seen evidence? Have you been accused publicly?
Has that had an impact on your life, on the life of your family or the people around
you?

And, look, | understand that an investigation has to ask difficult questions.

| understand an investigation has to bring everyone associated in, and we have to

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LEWANDOWSKI: | think we were discussing the relevant news of the

day and whatever CNN was reporting on the latest Russian hoax.

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

QUIGLEY: Do you recall what you told her?
LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall specifically, no.
QUIGLEY: Do you know generally what you said?
LEWANDOWSKI: | probably said this is all bullshit.
QUIGLEY: And do you recall what her response was?
LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall verbatim. No.
QUIGLEY: Did she talk to you about your testimony?
LEWANDOWSKI: No.

QUIGLEY: Did you talk to her about it?
LEWANDOWSKI: No.

QUIGLEY: How about Mr. Schiller?

LEWANDOWSKI: | can just clarify. Again, | did not speak to anyone

from the White House about my testimony. So we can through each individual |

just mentioned, but what | am going to say is | think | have answered that question

that no one from the White House has instructed me to testify. | will be happy to

go through each individual again if you would like.

MR.

QUIGLEY: Let's go back to Mr. Schiller about your discussions with

him about the Russia investigations in Congress.

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

LEWANDOWSKI: Is that a question?
QUIGLEY: Yes.

LEWANDOWSKI: Is the question?
QUIGLEY: When was that conversation?

LEWANDOWSKI: Probably the same timeframe, 90 days

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correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: On June 7, then-candidate Trump had just won the New
Jersey primary. Do you recall that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | recall winning New Jersey, yes.

MS. SPEIER: Were you there with him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | was, yes.

MS. SPEIER: So he gave a speech that night, and I've actually watched it
on YouTube a number of times. He gave a speech that night in which he says
he's about to give a major speech about Hillary Clinton in the next couple of days.
Maybe he said Monday. What was he referring to?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know.

MS. SPEIER: Well, did you not help him draft the speech?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | didn't.

MS. SPEIER: Who helped him draft the speech?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI!: Mr. Miller.

MS. SPEIER: So Mr. Miller did?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Miller was the person who drafted the
speeches.

MS. SPEIER: And did you talk to Mr. Miller about what he was talking
about about all the things that they were going to be exposing about Hillary Clinton
in that subsequent Monday speech?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm not sure that the remarks that Mr. Trump made
weren't made extemporaneously.

MS. SPEIER: But it appeared that there was something big that the

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I did. Mr. Manafort went directly to candidate
Trump and outlined, to the best of my recollection, a plan where he would have
one pot of money, and | would have’a separate pot of money, both
oversaw -- overseen, | guess, by one individual who would have the ability to wire
funds, based on preapproved spending.

MS. SPEIER: So after you heard that Mr. Manafort went directly to
Mr. Trump, did you challenge Mr. Manafort? Did you go to then-candidate Trump
and say, this is not a good idea? | mean, what action did you take?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was very clear in my concern to Mr. Trump about
providing a separate account for Mr. Manafort.

MS. SPEIER: And what did Mr. Trump say at the time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He ensured me that there were checks in place,
checks and balances in place, so Mr. Manafort wouldn't have unfettered access to
the money.

MS, SPEIER: Did you say to then-candidate Trump that you were
concerned that Mr. Manafort could steal money from the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not say that initially, no.

MS. SPEIER: So you first identified a questionable expenditure of about
$20,000. To the best of your recollection, what was the nature of that
transaction?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe it was for a list rental is how it was
described in the Federal Elections Commission report.

MS. SPEIER: And what caused you concern about that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The vendor that was paid that sum was listed in

Londonderry, New Hampshire, and it just happened to be a vendor | had never

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that was issued ever.

MR. SCHIFF: And what other comments did you make during the
conversation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | think | said: There's no crime in being stupid.

MR. SCHIFF: How did that conversation come about? Did he reach out
to you, or did you reach out to him?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall who initiated that particular --

MR. SCHIFF: And was the majority of the conversation on that topic?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was, yes, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have the impression that this was something he
wanted to talk about?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Only in that it was the relevant news of the day,
and nothing more.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you speak with Hope Hicks about the -- about the
meeting or about the statement that went out characterizing the meeting?

MR. CHAVKIN: Mr. Schiff, I'm going to advise -- we've gone down this.
You've asked about the President. Anything else --

MR. SCHIFF: | haven't asked this question, Counsel, so the question
stands.

MR. CHAVKIN: I'm advising him not to answer.

MR. SCHIFF: You're advising him not to answer.

MR. CHAVKIN: And | want to just complete the record that you wouldn't let
me complete, which is that Senator Grassley --

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, I'm not interested in your stonewalling.

MR. CHAVKIN: It's not stonewalling.

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they don't want to give it, then we will reconsider it. But it's not appropriate to ask
him for the President's cell phone.

MR. SCHIFF: Of course, it is appropriate. So your answer is he won't
provide it. He's changed his mind. Okay.

Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, did you talk to Ms. Hicks since
she -- have you talked to her since she testified to our committee?

MR. CHAVKIN: When did she testify before your committee?

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Lewandowski, have you talked to her since she
testified before our committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | had a conversation with Ms. Hicks.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Did you discuss her testimony with our
committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you messaged with her since she last talked to
our committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you discuss, in your messaging with her, her
testimony with our committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Ms. Hicks ever tell you while she was working for
the campaign that her emails had been hacked?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe she did, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know that Ms. Hicks had deleted email

accounts while she was working for the campaign? Did you have knowledge of

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MR. SCHIFF: Itis. Itis.

MR. CHAVKIN: When you use terms like "stonewalling," you imply that
we're trying to --

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, yes, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. You
are obstructing.

MR. CHAVKIN: And | can quote chapter and verse about -- did | have the
floor there, Mr. Chairman? .

MR. SCHIFF: No, | have the floor, Counsel, you don't. You can instruct
your client not to answer.

MR. CHAVKIN: He's instructed not to answer.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay.

So, Mr. Lewandowski, you won't discuss what Hope Hicks had to say about
her role in the creation of the false statement over the meeting at Trump Tower?

MR. CHAVKIN: You've also loaded the word "false statement" in there,
right?. So --

MR. SCHIFF: Well, Mr. Lewandowski, will you answer this committee's
question about your discussion with Hope Hicks about the statement
characterizing the meeting in Trump Tower as about adoptions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Hope simply said to me after the statement was
out, we -- she and | had a brief conversation about it.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did she say about it?

MR. CHAVKIN: Corey, I'm advising you not to answer. | believe it's not
pertinent at this point.

MR. SCHIFF: And are you going to refuse to answer the question, Mr.

Lewandowski?

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Was that one conversation or two conversations?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The conversation which took place about better
relations with Russia took place, to the best of my recollection, during the
campaign as he was talking about potential relationship with Russia. And it would
have taken place on multiple occasions. And it was the same basic conversation,
which was, why is it that we can't have a better relationship with Russia so that we
can join together to fight ISIS?

Hive minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: And so the conversation you described in which the
President said that he had never met any Russians during the campaign, that was
the one conversation you had after the campaign with the President on the subject
of Russia. |s that your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: So with the President, who talks about Russia literally every
day or almost every day, both publicly and reportedly within the White House, in
the somewhere less than 100 conversations you have had with him, he only
brought it up once. Is that your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, my testimony is that, during the campaign, we
discussed the ability to work with Russia on multiple occasions and partnering
potentially with Russia to rid ISIS off the face of the Earth. And following that,
there had been very limited, if -- | don't recall many conversations at all about
Russia following the campaign, during his tenure as the President.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, | am not sure how to reconcile what you are saying
with what you said earlier. Are you saying now that it was only one conversation

that you had where he said he had never met a Russian during the campaign, or

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he can refuse to answer any question he wants.

What you can't do is refuse to answer questions and then go out and tell
people you are fully cooperating when you are not and when your client is not.

But your client is here voluntarily. We will proceed on that basis. We
have urged, where witnesses refused to answer pertinent questions, that they be
subpoenaed. At times, we have done that, and at times, we have not. And |
hope, though, that won't be necessary.

And, with that, | yield to my colleague Mr. Quigley.

MR. QUIGLEY: | always appreciate an early morning lecture. | guess the
only thing | would have added to the comments would be so you mentioned that
his testimony was more detailed than any other previous interview. How in the
world would you know that?

MR. CHAVKIN: May | respond, Mr. Chairman?

MR. CONAWAY: Yes.

MR. CHAVKIN: MR. Quigley, if you were listening carefully -- it may be
early in the morning for you, but not for me; | have been up for a number of
hours -- it was Mr. King's comment. Mr. King has been here for a good number of
the hearings. | have no idea how detailed his testimony is compared to any other
witness, but | do trust in the judgment of one of the great Congressmen on this
committee.

MR. QUIGLEY: So, Mr. Lewandowski, thank you so much for coming
back. | appreciate that. | can't guarantee you there won't be -- we are going to
try not to -- avoid any duplication. But there will be some that at least have to be
referenced to give understanding of the question. And there are issues that have

come up since your previous testimony which make questioning about your time

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MS. SPEIER: What caused you concern about that transaction?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Even for a presidential campaign, it was a fairly -- it
was a Significant sum for our campaign. $730,000 was a lot of money based on
our standard run rate.

MS. SPEIER: And what was it for?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe it was for mail pieces, pieces of mail.

MS. SPEIER: Did you ever see any of the mail pieces?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MS. SPEIER: Did you confront Mr. Manafort about these two expenses?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MS. SPEIER: Did you talk to anyone about the $730,000 expense?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | spoke to the legal counsel of the campaign, Alan
Weiselberg, who had authorization over funding. | also spoke to Mathew
Calamari about that expense.

HE. Chairman, over to you.

MR. CONAWAY: [have no questions. Fifteen minutes.

MS. SPEIER: So was Michael Cohen involved in any of these
transactions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MS. SPEIER: Have you talked to the President about Mr. Cohen?

MR. CHAVKIN: Are we talking about during the campaign? What time
period?

MS. SPEIER: Well, during the campaign, after the campaign, relative to
the campaign.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Sure. | spoke to the President hundreds of times

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you were not going to answer them and see if you could get away with the failure
to answer those questions.

| am glad that Mr. Lewandowski has come back to answer them, but it was
all the more stunning because it wasn't based on any claim of privilege. It was
just based on a "I'd rather not answer, | am not prepared to do so." That was
stunning. And | think that was stonewalling. You may not want to characterize it
that way, but given there is no applicable privilege and given the questions were
relevant, it is hard to reach any other conclusion.

| would also say that the coincidence that the point at which Mr.
Lewandowski refused to answer questions, that is, after he left the campaign,
being exactly the same point at which Mr. Bannon refused to answer questions
after he left the campaign was striking to this committee. We know, of course,
with respect to Mr. Bannon, that that was at the request of the White House. You
have represented that was not true of Mr. Lewandowski, but we asked Mr.
Lewandowski about his conversations with the President. And while he answered
some of them, he refused to answer a great many others. So we were not able to
ascertain what advice he was given or what comments the President or others
may have made in anticipation of his testimony. Hopefully, we can rectify that
today.

Finally, with respect to your representation that you will instruct the witness
not to answer any question that you deem in your own opinion not to be sufficiently
relevant, that's not your decision. Relevance is a decision for the committee to
make. You may not know why a question is relevant. You haven't sat here and
listened to all the other witnesses. And so you are not in a position to lecture us

about what is relevant or not. You can advise your client anything you want, and

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MR. CHAVKIN: Well, as a moment ago, you asked me to testify.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you said you weren't going to testify, so if you could
keep your editorializing to a minimum.

MR. CHAVKIN: That's correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And | also want to point out here, this is exactly the problem
with the position you've taken. This witness has said he has had no other
conversations about Russia. And Ms. Speier asks, have you talked about George
Papadopoulos, and the answer is yes. So this is a game of hide the ball. That's
clearly pertinent to our investigation.

And your witness would have left a dramatically misleading impression with
the committee, based on his prior answers had Ms. Speier not asked specifically
about George Papadopoulos. So do we need to go by chapter and verse and
name everyone in the investigation to get answers from your client?

MR. CHAVKIN: That's the way it seems like it's most productive to
proceed.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, that's the way you hide the ball, Counsel.

MR. CHAVKIN: | don't think so at all.

MR. SCHIFF: And if you want the committee hearing to go expeditiously,
that's not the way to do it.

| yield back to Ms. Speier.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: You know, Mr. Schiff, with all due respect, I'm here
as a volunteer to answer your questions. I've spent 8 hours already answering
questions. I'm here as a volunteer again to try and help you understand that
based on my tenure at the campaign, and post that, | saw no collusion, no

cooperation, no coordination between the Trumps, the Trump campaign, and the

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responded, and | paraphrase: | never spoke to a Russian either. You know that.
You were there.

That's, to the best of my recollection, the extent of our conversations
regarding anything to do with Russia.

MR. QUIGLEY: And Russian investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Including the Russia investigation. Yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: How about Special Counsel Mueller's investigation. Any
communication at all with the President?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, | have never spoken
to the President about Special Counsel Mueller.

MR. QUIGLEY: Or his investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Or his investigation. That's right.

MR. QUIGLEY: Same question, same timeframe, his policy toward
Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Which policy, sir?

MR. QUIGLEY: His foreign policy used toward Russia?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe that my conversations with then-candidate
Trump were the same conversations he had in public, which were to have him say:
Why can't we have a better relationship with Russia so that we can fight ISIS
together in Syria?

MR. QUIGLEY: Did he talk about how he might have that better
relationship? What he would have to do to improve the relationship?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, he did not.

MR. QUIGLEY: Improved cooperation, easing sanctions?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir. Those conversations never took place

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MR. CONAWAY: Just keep asking the questions.

MR. QUIGLEY: When was the last time you were at the White House?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yesterday.

MR. QUIGLEY: The day before -- just yesterday, right?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That would be the day before today, right.
Yesterday is how we define that.

MR. QUIGLEY: All right. Who did you talk to at the White House
yesterday?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No one.

MR. QUIGLEY: You didn't say a word when you were there the whole
time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's correct.

MR. QUIGLEY: How long were you there?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Minutes.

MR. QUIGLEY: So what was the purpose of your meeting, your attending
the White House?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, this is not pertinent to the parameters of this
committee's investigation.

MR. QUIGLEY: You were invited to some event or a meeting at the White
House. Is that correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, it's not.

MR. QUIGLEY: You just showed up.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: So what was the reason you went to the White House?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, the same question, Mr. Quigley.

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media of the day. This is no longer an investigation about getting information.
This is an investigation to see who can get to the media first to make the other
side look bad.

Even a Congressman for which | have great respect, Jim Himes, bemoaned
that too much time is being spent in the news. And | wish, although | don't see
him here today, that members of the minority -- oh, | guess | do see him -- would
embrace what Congressman Heck did last night when Don Lemon on CNN asked
him whether Mr. Mr. Lewandowski was coming back today. And Congressman
Heck said, with great responsibility, that he does not identify who or when
witnesses come before this committee. And, yet, again, Mr. Lewandowski's
appearance today, just like his first appearance, was leaked to the press.

So why have we returned? Because the chairman had asked us to return,
and we have great respect for that request, and we are honoring it today. But
these events lead us to the following: We are not here to replow ground covered
in the 8 hours of our first appearance. So we are not going -- | am going to advise
Mr. Lewandowski that questions about his time as campaign manager, which was
thoroughly exhausted during his first appearance, are out of bounds. Second, we
believe that any relevant question or questions should take a good deal south of 1
hour. And, thirdly, | will be advising Mr. Lewandowski not to answer any question
that is not pertinent to the purposes of this committee.

And | want to be clear about something before anybody, majority or
minority, goes out to the media to characterize this. This is not the invocation of a
privilege. This is the invocation of a legal right of every American citizen. It
dates back, Mr. Quigley, to 1957, a dark chapter in American history that came out

of the House Un-American Activities Committee, when the Supreme Court in

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: If that's a media inquiry, I'm sure Ms. Hicks would
have notified me of that.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you recall being notified of that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall that specific outlet, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of any approaches that Ms. Hicks had
received from the Russians up until Election Day?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall specific indications of the Russians
attempting to contact Ms. Hicks during the campaign. She probably, other than
from a media side, would not have been the principal point of outreach.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you remember -- is there any recollection of
Ms. Hicks discussing with you Russian approaches that had been made to her?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not that | recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Donald Trump Jr. ever talk to you about fall 2016
conversations he had with WikiLeaks?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of any outside efforts to connect
Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin during the campaign?

MR. CHAVKIN: Understanding that he's seen emails, right, since he's left
the campaign?

MR. SWALWELL: I'm not talking about what you've read in the press,

Mr. Lewandowski. |'m talking about emails that you were on or conversations that
you had with people.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yeah, | believe there were multiple emails where
individuals had recommended Mr. Trump build a relationship with Mr. Putin during

the campaign.

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approximately.

MR. QUIGLEY: Was there only one conversation with him about that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Probably, yes. One conversation, to the best of
my recollection.

MR. QUIGLEY: And what did you communicate to Mr. Schiller?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The same sentiment which | communicated to Ms.
Hicks.

MR. QUIGLEY: And his response?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: "You're right," paraphrased.

MR. QUIGLEY: Let's go to the communication team. What was your -- do
you recall when your conversation with Mr. Spicer would have been?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That would have been probably sometime last
summer, late spring, before Mr. Spicer departed the building.

MR. QUIGLEY: And the general topic of that conversation and about the
Russian investigations, what were you suggesting at that time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | probably contacted, to the best of my recollection,
Mr. Spicer for whatever the relevant news of the day was as he was
doing -- providing talking points to surrogates on behalf of the White House.

MR. QUIGLEY: He was providing those or you were helping him come up
with --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He was providing those as the communications
director of the White House.

MR. QUIGLEY: And so he wanted you to be one of those?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my knowledge, it is a standard

document that gets distributed to anybody who may be on television or in the

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MR. QUIGLEY: What topics were discussed in your conversation?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, that's the same question, Mr. Quigley.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you discuss anything related to your future
employment?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Was the word "Russia" included anywhere in the
conversation?

MR. LEWANDOWSK!: Not that | recall, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Prior to your first interview before this committee, did
anyone suggest to you that you not answer any questions beyond your tenure with
the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. CHAVKIN: Other than his counsel.

MR. QUIGLEY: Correct.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did anyone before your first interview talk to you about
what you should or -- other than counsel, what you should or should not talk
about?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Anyone remotely connected with the campaign or with the
White House, no one at all?

MR. CHAVKIN: One minute.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Other than being told to tell the truth, there was no
other conversation about any testimony or information | should share with the

committee from anybody associated with the campaign or the White House.

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MR. CHAVKIN: Majority staff of this committee?

MR. QUIGLEY: Yes.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Have you ever talked to the chairman of this committee
about the actions of this committee or your testimony before this committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Chairman Conaway? No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Chairman Nunes?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I've never spoken to Chairman Nunes in my life.

MR. QUIGLEY: Or his staff.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Have you made any promises or representations to
anyone that you will not put the President in any sort of legal liability with respect
to this investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. QUIGLEY: How much time do we have?

ME ight minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: | just want to ask a few followup questions on Mr. Quigley's
line of inquiry. You testified that the President called you the day before your
testimony when you last came before this committee. Is that right?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI:_ Yes, it is.

MR. SCHIFF: And you said, during that conversation, the President told
you to tell the truth in your testimony. Is that right?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't think it was that conversation, but that was
the only conversation | ever had about potential testimony, was he simply said:

Tell the truth.

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know if it was implied, but my guess would
be that he told me just in case | was asked of a potential strategy for Afghanistan.

MR. SWALWELL: By Mr. Trump?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Or someone else in the administration, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of any efforts Mr. Prince had
undertaken to establish a back channel between Russia and the United States in
January of 2017?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I was not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Prince talk to you at all about his trip in January
2017 to the Seychelles?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Has Donald Trump ever talked to you about Erik
Prince's travel in January 2017 to the Seychelles?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you talked to anyone in the Trump family or White
House about Erik Prince's travel to the Seychelles?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you first learn that Erik Prince had gone to
the Seychelles?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | learned from public reports.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of a December 1st, 2016, meeting
between Jared Kushner and Michael Flynn with Ambassador Kislyak?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | would only have been made aware of that
through the public media reports.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever talk to President-elect or President Trump

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campaign was about to unload on Hillary Clinton and provide the public with. |
would think you would be aware of that, would you not?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | If there was something that was planned, | would
have been made aware of it, yes.

MS. SPEIER: So, June 9th, the meeting in Donald Trump Jr.'s office takes
place. Both Manafort and Kushner are there. You indicated that you would look
back on your schedule to see what you were doing that day. Did you do so, and
what did you determine you were doing that day?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe that was the day that we ended up
traveling to Florida midday.

MS. SPEIER: You and whom else?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Trump, Mr. Miller, Ms. Hicks, Mr. Scavino,

Mr. Schiller, Secret Service.

MS. SPEIER: | don't -- did you actually check your records?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | thought my record indicated that at the end of that
evening we RON'd at Mar-a-Lago.

MS. SPEIER: So that would be at the end of the evening. This was
happening at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. What did your schedule suggest you
were doing at 4 o'clock in the afternoon?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't keep a detailed schedule of what | do hour
by hour.

MS. SPEIER: Well, since this was such an important meeting that was
going to provide dirt on Hillary Clinton, and --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | wasn’t made aware of the meeting prior to it being

made public.

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MR. QUIGLEY: Who told you to tell the truth?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: The President.

MR. QUIGLEY: So when did you talk to the President where he said to tell
you -- the truth about this testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know the day.

MR. QUIGLEY: Was it before your first testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was.

MR. QUIGLEY: If it wasn't the day before, how soon before that day you
testified did you talk to the President where he said that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: You know, Mr. Quigley, | know you may not believe
this, but | speak to the President on a regular basis, and | don't write down every
time | that. And so | can't tell you the specific date | spoke to the President and
he said: Make sure you tell the truth.

MR. QUIGLEY: What else in that conversation did you talk to the
President about relating to this testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Nothing.

MR. QUIGLEY: So the only thing he said was he just blurted out, "When
you testify, tell the truth"?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: You didn't ask him what you should say? You didn't ask
the President of the United States what not to talk about at all any time previous to
your first testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. QUIGLEY: Any time previous to today, did you talk to the President of

the United States about any testimony you might give to anybody, special counsel,

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MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever met Erik Prince?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you work with him during the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you first meet Mr. Prince?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Sometime probably mid last year to March, April,
May of last year.

MR. SWALWELL: What was that in the context of?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He asked me to get a cup of coffee with him at the
hotel, Trump Hotel.

MR. SWALWELL: In Washington?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: What did you discuss?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He discussed a new strategy for Afghanistan.

MR. SWALWELL: Was he making a pitch to you about a strategy for
Afghanistan?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: His recommendation is -- was to reduce the
number of troops in Afghanistan and use a different type of force there. And so
he walked through what he thought would be a better, different strategy than what
the administration was pursuing.

MR. SWALWELL: And was he asking you to pass along that to Mr.
Trump? ;

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He didn't directly ask me that, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it implied that he wanted you to pass that along to
Mr. Trump?

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MR. SWALWELL: Was there any vetting done on Mr. Manafort prior to
him coming on board, meaning besides what was available in a Google search?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Why was Mr. Manafort working for free?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | can't answer that question.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you working for free at that time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Was there anybody as senior as you or in the C-suite
level of the campaign who was working for free at that time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Kushner.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it unusual to you that Mr. Manafort, that his
arrangement was to work for free?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Why?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Just based on the number of hours that someone
would put into a campaign, you would traditionally want to be compensated for
that, regardless of your standing.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if that was Mr. Manafort's decision or Mr.
Trump's?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was Mr. Manafort's decision.

MR. SWALWELL: Did that strike you as unusual, that somebody would
offer to do all that work for free?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Manafort portrayed himself as a very wealthy
individual and didn't need the compensation.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, you said earlier that if somebody worked with

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MR. SWALWELL: Do you know the Agalarov family?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: So if you did know that the President was having written
correspondence with Russians, that would change your answer, right?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm unaware of any written correspondence the
President has with anyone from Russia or Russians.

MR. SWALWELL: Once you left in June 2016, up until Election Day, did
you ever talk with Donald Trump about the dissemination of hacked DNC emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall a conversation with Mr. Trump about
that.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever assist Mr. Trump in crafting a speech
where he would discuss the dissemination of hacked Democratic emails?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever help Mr. Trump write any tweets during
the campaign once you left?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't think the characterization would be accurate
to say | helped him write a tweet, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever advise him on a tweet that he should
write?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | think if you allow me the liberty to say that he
would ask me if he should put a tweet out or not would be a fair characterization.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he ever ask you about whether he should put a
tweet out or not during the campaign with respect to WikiLeaks?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: How about with respect to Russia?

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MR. SWALWELL: Did Michael Cohen tell you about that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MR. SWALWELL: How did you know?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Ms. Hicks told me.

MR. SWALWELL: When did Ms. Hicks tell you that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It would have been contemporaneously.

MR. SWALWELL: Who else would have had knowledge of that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: At that point, | can't speak to anybody else who
would have known.

MR. SWALWELL: What was Donald -- did you talk to Donald Trump
after -- President Trump after General Flynn pled guilty?

(Ore minute.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have spoken to President Trump after Mr. Flynn
has pled guilty, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk to President Trump about General Flynn's
guilty plea, or did he talk to you about it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | think the only thing -- the only part of the
conversation that | would recall regarding Mr. Flynn was some polling data, which
had just been provided showing that, by and large, the Republican base was not in
favor of a pardon for General Flynn.

MR. SWALWELL: Who had asked for that polling to be conducted?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don’t know who asked for it to be conducted --

MR. SWALWELL: -- the President talk about that polling?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No. | provided that data to the President.

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MR. QUIGLEY: Was yesterday a social visit?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, it was not.

MR. QUIGLEY: So you went there and you didn't meet anyone and you
didn't talk to anyone yesterday?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's an accurate representation. Yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: How many times did you go to the White House where
you just showed up, didn't talk to a soul, didn't meet with a soul?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Just yesterday.

MR. QUIGLEY: Just yesterday. No coincidence that you are testifying
today and yesterday you were at the White House and didn't talk or meet with
anyone?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | see no coincidence to that, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: How are the tours this time of year?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't know, but if you would like to get access, |
might be able-to get you in. There is a long line, though.

MR. QUIGLEY: You don't have a badge to enter the White House?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, sir.

MR. QUIGLEY: But you have to be invited and cleared each time you go
since you are not an employee, correct?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe that's the processes, yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: So who authorized you to enter yesterday?

MR. CHAVKIN: Again, what -- the purpose of this committee is not to
investigate how the White House conducts its business on a regular basis. It is to
investigate what Russia apparently did in connection with the Presidential election.

| apologize for the lecture here, Mr. Schiff, but the fact is sometimes it is necessary

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about that meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe | did, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever talk to Ms. Hicks about a communication
strategy about explaining that meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware of a December 2016 meeting between
Jared Kushner and VEB Bank Chairman Sergey Gorkov?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | was not.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if Donald Trump was aware of that
meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | do not know.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to Donald Trump about that
meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to Ms. Hicks about a
communication strategy with respect to answering questions about that meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with a meeting at Trump Tower during
the transition that included Jared Kushner, Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, and UAE
Officials?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | am not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to Donald Trump about that
meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to Ms. Hicks about a

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MR. CHAVKIN: Same point.

MR. QUIGLEY: He's not going to answer that?

MR. CHAVKIN: It doesn't relate to the parameters of your investigation,
which is Russian interference, Russian cyber activity.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, you are instructing your witness not to answer?

MR. CHAVKIN: | am.

MR. QUIGLEY: How about conversations with Attorney General Jeff
Sessions?

MR. CHAVKIN: Conversations between the witness and Attorney General
Jeff Sessions?

MR. QUIGLEY: | was going through the checklist of conversations that Mr.
Lewandowski may or may not have had with the President of the United States
involving these people. So | was going through the checklist to try to do this as.
quickly as possible.

MR. CHAVKIN: | am instructing him not to answer on pertinence grounds.

MR. QUIGLEY: Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

MR. CHAVKIN: Same point.

MR. QUIGLEY: FBI Director Christopher Wray.

MR. CHAVKIN: Same point.

MR. QUIGLEY: How about that same question with anybody else in the
White House or related to the campaign?

MR. CHAVKIN: | am not sure | understand the question, Mr. Quigley.

MR. QUIGLEY: Have you had conversations with anyone else in the
White House about Russia investigations in Congress? | am going to go through

the same checklist, if you want to say that he can't talk about those. | just -- | am

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live on television.

MS. SPEIER: But there were no other surrogates that made trips, to your
knowledge, that may not have been paid for by the campaign?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | couldn't accurately attest to people's travel plans
outside the country if they weren't directly under my purview, no.

MR. CHAVKIN: Ms. Speier, just so we're clear, there is a Carter Page
request on June 19, 2016, to travel. He made a speech at, | believe, New
Economics School. Mr, Lewandowski is aware of that email.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. When we last met, we rattled off a number of ways
of communication and you answered yes, but we didn't ask you specifically. So
we'd like to go through that specifically.

Have you ever used WhatsApp?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | don't believe so.

MS. SPEIER: Have you ever used Signal?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: Have you used Telegram?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't believe so, no.

MS. SPEIER: Have you ever used the app Confide?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: Have you ever used Snapchat?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: Have you ever used Twitter?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: Any other apps used that you did not -- that | have not

mentioned?

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MR. LEWANDOWSKI: We're not most campaigns.

MR. SPEIER: | understand that. So there was no opposition research
done by the campaign on the candidate?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That's accurate.

MS. SPEIER: Was there opposition research done on Hillary Clinton?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: Were you ever familiar about the sale of the mansion in
Florida by Mr. Trump to Mr. Rybolovev?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: It never came up?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: He never bragged about making $45 million on a sale when
you'd fly down to Mar-a-Lago?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: Was -- Cohen was identified as being part of the campaign
in the early days.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I'm sorry, who?

MS. SPEIER: Cohen, Michael Cohen. Was he just kind of an add-on, or
on did he sit in on meetings?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Michael Cohen had no role in the campaign.

MS. SPEIER: Did he sit in on meetings?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No.

MS. SPEIER: So he was never at campaign-related events?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | didn't say that. | said he didn't sit in on meetings.

MS. SPEIER: Any strategy meetings, he didn't sit in on strategy meetings?

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that with his statement, to paraphrase, which he said: You were right. You were
there from the beginning. And you know | never met a Russian either.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Lewandowski, you seem to be taking the word
"investigation" very literally.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | thought that's what we were here for, an
investigation.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, we are, but we don't want you to behind a very strict
legalistic interpretation of my question.

Are you saying that you had other conversations with the President since
his election that were about Russia but didn't involve the word "investigation"?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | cannot say with 100 percent certainty that, during
any conversation | have had since he has become the President, the word
“Russia” did not appear in that discussion. | could not stay that with 100 percent
certainty.

MR. SCHIFF: Could you tell us what other conversations you have had
with the President about any aspect of Russian policy, his interactions or that of
those of his campaign with Russia or the Russia investigation. Can you tell us
about any other conversations you have had with him since he was elected?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Again, there's nothing that immediately comes to
mind of a discussion regarding Russian policy or Russia investigation, but that's
not to say the term "Russia" never arose in our conversations.

MR. SCHIFF: But you can't give us any specifics. Is that your testimony?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | think -- no, | believe, upon his return from an
overseas travel where he met with Vladimir Putin, | think he told me that he met

with him, which was widely reported, but that's all. There was no in-depth

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when things are so far off the rails, as Congressman Rooney pointed out.

MR. QUIGLEY: You have got to imagine that what we are talking about
here is the possibility of cooperation or collusion with members of this
administration. And the fact that you were at the White House yesterday and
didn't talk to anyone, didn't meet anyone, you won't talk about any other of these
discussions about what the topics were or those that you had with the President of
the United States on the day before, it's just -- it strains credibility, and that's why
you have to ask these questions because, frankly, you are not answering them.

MR. CHAVKIN: Mr. Quigley, that's not accurate.

MR. SCHIFF: If | could interject here. | think we can see enough that we
are going to need to subpoena this witness, and | make the request that we do so.

Counsel, the witness goes to the White House the day before his testimony.
He won't tell us why he went. He won't tell us whether he was invited. He won't
tell us whether he had a meeting with the President and it was canceled or the
President was otherwise busy. He had a conversation with the President the day
before his testimony, but he won't tell us what that conversation was about,
because you deign it not relevant. Well, we don't know if it is relevant. And you
don't know if itis relevant. You think you know it, but we need to test the veracity
of this witness.

Now if he testifies that he went to the White House to talk with the President
about someone's wedding, fine. Tell us it was somebody's wedding; we won't
probe about the wedding plans. But if it is pertinent to this investigation and it is
pertinent to us to tell whether Mr. Lewandowski is telling us the truth, we need to
get answers. And it isn't sufficient and this committee has never accepted of

other witnesses a simple "we'll decide what is relevant and what is not."

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but -- that we would like to cross reference and determine whether there were calls
made to the President during the campaign. It's very relevant. We're not
interested in his current number.

And so the question is, you represented earlier when you testified that you
had access to it, would provide it. Are you going to provide it, or have you
changed your mind?

MR. CHAVKIN: What Mr. Lewandowski said, Mr. Schiff, is that, get it from
the President. Get it from the White House.

MR. SCHIFF: No. No. No.

MR. CHAVKIN: Wait. He said --

MR. SCHIFF: What he said -- Mr. Swalwell said, "Do you still have it on
your phone?" Mr. Lewandowski answered, "That's very possible." "Okay.
Could you check on that and report back to us and we would redact that from your
transcript?" Mr. Lewandowski said, "Yes, happy to.”

So that was your testimony when you previously appeared. Are you still
willing to do it, or have you now changed your position on that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He said today, was what | was referring, today in
this hearing --

MR. SCHIFF: | know, Counsel, and I'm referring to the commitment he
made earlier.

MR. CHAVKIN: We got it. We got it.

MR. SCHIFF: So you changed your mind and you're not willing to provide
that?

MR. CHAVKIN: He will consider providing it if you first ask Dowd or Ty

Cobb or someone connected to the White House for that phone number, and if

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Watkins v. United States made clear the following: The power of the Congress to
conduct investigations is broad, but broad as is this power of inquiry, it is not
unlimited. Congress is not a law enforcement or trial agency. No inquiry is an
end in itself. It must be related to and in furtherance of a legitimate task of the
Congress.

And here is perhaps the most important quote: This is a jurisdictional
concept of pertinency drawn from the nature of a congressional committee's
source of authority. And that's at page 206, 354 U.S., 1957.

Now, pertinency is defined by the purpose of this committee, and
fortunately, Congresswoman Speier, we don't have to guess about the purpose of
this committee because the committee has made that abundantly clear in its four
parameters. The purpose of this committee, as defined by the committee, is to
investigate: What Russian cyber activity and other active measures were directed
against the United States and its allies? Did the Russian active measures include
links between Russia and individuals associated with political campaigns or any
other U.S. persons? What was the U.S. Government's response to these
Russian active measures, and what do we need do to protect ourselves and our
allies in the future? And, finally, the fourth parameter, what possible leaks of
classified information took place related to the Intelligence Community assessment
of these matters?

As | might remind the committee, which | assume the committee needs no
reminding, the House Resolution 658 from 1977, which established the new
Permanent Select Committee of the House, states that the purpose is to oversee
and make continuing studies of the intelligence and intelligence-related activities

and programs of the United States Government. If! may Say, as a personal

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were you listed?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: As the campaign manager.

MS. SPEIER: So how would you suggest that that was a restructuring
then, if you were still the campaign manager?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Well, because the responsibilities were going to
shift from day-to-day operations of everything at the campaign to a more limited
role, which would have included travel, communications. And the State
operations was going to be moved over to Mr. Manafort.

MS. SPEIER: And once Jared had provided that new organization chart,
who did you talk to about it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Probably Mr. Trump.

MS. SPEIER: And what did he say to you?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | don't recall the exact conversation about it.

MS. SPEIER: But he conveyed to you that you were no longer going to
have the chief role as campaign manager?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: No, | would still have the campaign manager role.
Mr. Manafort's title was then campaign chairman.

MS. SPEIER: But your responsibilities were shifting into a much smaller
role?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: That is correct.

MS. SPEIER: And what did he say about giving you fewer responsibilities
and why he was doing that?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He didn't necessarily address it. He just said it will
be the way it used to be, which is us flying around the plane and me taking care of

his schedule and not worrying about the State operations.

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investigation, looking into whether or not the campaign had a relationship with
Russian operatives?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | That's right.

MS. SPEIER: It just came into your head and you said it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI:_ | was probably responding to a news story and
started the conversation, or part of our conversation was related to some topic we
saw on the news, and that was why I raised the issue to the President.

MS. SPEIER: So how did you raise it?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: To the best of my recollection, | said to him, Sir, |
was there from the beginning, and | never met a Russian, never saw a Russian,
never interacted with a Russian. He said, You're right. You were there from the
beginning, and | never did either.

MS. SPEIER: And this news story, what was it about?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It was -- | couldn't speak specifically to the story.
I'm sure it was a story on CNN and their incessant coverage of this topic.

MS. SPEIER: Have you spoken to any Members of Congress?

MR. CHAVKIN: About what?

MS. SPEIER: About anything about this committee?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection, no.

MS. SPEIER: So you haven't spoken to Mr. King, for instance?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: I've spoken to Mr. King, sure, not about the
committee.

MS. SPEIER: Not about the committee? Not about the investigation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Not to the best of my recollection.

MS. SPEIER: You said you were at the White House yesterday, but you

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communication strategy to respond to that meeting?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you aware of communications that General Flynn
had in December 2016 with the Russian Ambassador about a U.N. Security
Council resolution?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Only from the public reports.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever talked to Donald Trump about General
Flynn's role during that time of the transition with the Russian Ambassador?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: | believe | had a conversation with the President,
and part of the discussion was about -- after the public reports were made about
General Flynn. | believe it was actually after he had already left his position in the
White House. And the President asked me something along the lines of, what is
the big deal of the incoming National Security Advisor to talk to other
governments?

MR. SWALWELL: When was that conversation?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: It would have been after Mr. Flynn had left the
White House. So that would have been sometime in probably March or April of
2017.

MR. SWALWELL: Did President Trump tell you whether he knew that
General Flynn was having those conversations at the time?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did President Trump tell you whether he knew that
General Flynn had lied about those conversations to the Vice President or Vice
President-elect?

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: He did not.

UNCLASSIFIED/COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


45
UNCLASSIFIED/COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

Russian Government or anybody associated with that, that I'm aware of.

I'm trying to answer your questions in the most expeditious manner,
because this is not enjoyable for me. I'd like to leave here. But what | don't want
to do is leave here and have you walk out and say, | wasn't cooperative. | didn't
answer your questions.

So I'm here for the second time as a volunteer at a fairly significant cost to
myself to help your committee get to the bottom that there was no collusion. And
so | think a little latitude to understand that would be appreciated.

Furthermore, you may or may not care, but there was a massive snowstorm
that took place yesterday in my hometown, so my family has no power. My four
kids have no access to heat right now. So I'm here trying to help you while my
family is suffering.

| know it's not your problem, but it's my problem. So if | could return to my
family sometime in the near future, I'd appreciate that. So if we could expedite
this, I'd like that. If not, | understand that too, but | am here as a volunteer. But
my priority is my family. But instead, I'm here with you because | made the
commitment to be here.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Lewandowski, you may this find hard to be too, this isn't
fun for us either.

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: So --

MR. SCHIFF: And it would expedite matters if we didn't have to play 20
questions. And --

MR. LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Schiff, I've spent 9 hours in front of this
committee, okay. I've answered all of your questions as it related to whatever

may or may not have taken place during the campaign, | was directly privy to.

UNCLASSIFIED/COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES