MR.

MR.

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SWALWELL: Yes, please.

TRUMP: Can you give me the names of the other people? Because

| am not sure.

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

MR.

SWALWELL: We discussed Natalia Veselnitskaya.

TRUMP: Okay.

SWALWELL: We have discussed Anatoli Samochornov.
TRUMP: Is that the translator?

SWALWELL: That's her interpreter, yes.

TRUMP: So AS?

SWALWELL: AS would be all right. We have discussed Rinat

Akhmetshin.

MR.
MR.

TRUMP: | didn't remember him being there.

SWALWELL: And we have discussed Ike Kaveladze, also known as

lrakly. And Mr. Goldstone. And if you could, once you are done, just sign that at

the bottom. And | will admit that as exhibit 4, if that's okay with the chairman.

MR.

| said.

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

[Trump Exhibit No. 4
was marked for identification.]

TRUMP: Understanding that this is to the best of my recollection, like

SWALWELL: If you want to write --

TRUMP: | don't think | need to, unless -- it's on the record. Okay.
CONAWAY: Does that include Manafort and Mr. Kushner?
TRUMP: What's that?

SWALWELL: Did you depict where Mr. Kushner and --

TRUMP: Yes, | did. We were on this end of the table. Again, those

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attend. When did you find out that, in fact, he would be in the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: At the meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he tell you that "| decided to attend after all" or did you
ask him to be in attendance?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know either way.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall Rinat Akhmetshin being present as well?

MR. TRUMP: I've read that. | don't recall. Unless that's the translator, |
don't recall that, but I've read that he was there.

MR. SCHIFF: Had you ever met him before?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: And Mr. Kaveladze, | believe you said earlier you had met
before?

MR. TRUMP: | had not met before face to face. | had communicated, |
believe, through emails, and maybe he was on a conference call or two when we
were talking about the real estate deal with the Agalarovs in, | guess, 2014.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you recognize at the time, when you were introduced to
him, that he was the same person you had been in communication with before as a
representative of Mr. Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: At what point did you realize that this is somebody you had
communicated with before?

MR. TRUMP: Whenever this became -- whenever this was brought up. |
imagine it was earlier this summer.

MR. SCHIFF: And the translator has been identified as Anatoli

Samochornov. Had you never met him before?

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MR. TRUMP: She worked with Mr. Goldstone prior to all of that, in '13,
bringing the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And the same goes to Ms. Rachel Frommer (ph). Did
you tell her or seek to follow up with her about the June 9 meeting with respect to
Mr. Goldstone or any information that she could have given you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know who that is.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. You stated earlier that WikiLeaks is an
opportunistic organization. Do you remember saying that to us?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. And you would agree that with respect to what
WikiLeaks had to offer, you were an opportunistic campaign?

MR. TRUMP: | believe anything they put out publicly that was being picked
up by, arguably, every media outlet in the world, yes, | was there.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, you tracked and followed WikiLeaks pretty closely
throughout the campaign. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: No more so than | did the other major news agencies.

MR. SWALWELL: And you were aware that on June 12, 2016, Julian
Assange had announced on Twitter, an account that you followed, that he had new
information about Hillary Clinton's emails. Do you remember that?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know if | followed Julian Assange at that time. | know
that | followed WikiLeaks at that time. So | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you remember on June 12, 2016, when WikiLeaks
announced, via Julian Assange, that it had had new damaging emails on Hillary
Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember that specifically, but it would not surprise

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MR. SCHIFF: Well, let's take a look at the phone records. If you could
provide those to the witness.

If you could look at the AT&T bill and the phone call that occurred on
Monday, June 6, at 4:04 p.m. There's an incoming call from a number that has
a -- that begins with 798.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recognize that phone number?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recognize it, but it's my understanding that's Emin
Agalarov's cell phone.

MR. SCHIFF: And how is that your understanding?

MR. TRUMP: Just in preparation for this.

MR. SCHIFF: In preparation for this you looked at Emin's phone number
and this number and found it to be the same number?

MR. TRUMP: We looked at the phone bill and went back to see if there
was any relation. | didn't have Emin's cell phone number in my contacts, but we
went through it and determined that was the case.

MR. SCHIFF: So you would have received an incoming call then at 4:04
from Emin --

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: -- for approximately 2 minutes. But you don't recall what
you discussed?

MR. TRUMP: | don't even know that -- you know, my understanding is that
2 minutes could be 61 seconds. | don't know if that's him leaving me a voicemail
and | missed it or not. So I don't recall that, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Immediately after that is a blocked call. Who is that call to

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MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Fast forwarding to fall 2015, are you familiar with an
effort in the fall of 2015 to have a Trump Tower in Moscow?

MR. TRUMP: Vaguely, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: How are you familiar?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that another gentleman in our office, Michael
Cohen, had worked on a deal that got to LO! to build a Trump Tower Moscow.

MR. SWALWELL: Who was Michael Cohen working with?

MR. TRUMP: Who was he working with?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: On that deal?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: | believe he was working primarily by himself.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, he wasn't talking to himself about a deal on Trump
Tower. Who was he working with --

MR. TRUMP: You mean outside of The Trump Organization?

MR. SWALWELL: Yeah.

MR. TRUMP: | don't know who the other counterparties are. | know in
studying for this | don't know who the person in Russia was that they were talking
with. | believe he had worked with someone named Felix Sater on it.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you first learn about the effort to put a Trump
Tower in Moscow in 2015?

MR. TRUMP: I don't remember. | wasn't very involved at all.

MR. SWALWELL: Who first told you? Was it Mr. Cohen directly or

somebody else?

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MR. SWALWELL: And you were -- do you recall Mr. Kushner's statement
about the June 9 email? He issued a public statement. Do you remember
reviewing that?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Kushner's public statement references that he was
approached on October 30th via email by what appeared to be spam to him in
effort to seek your father's tax returns in exchange for a ransom, or that they
had -- | am sorry, that they had -- this organization had your father's tax returns,
and that they were going to release them unless Mr. Kushner paid a ransom. Do
you recall Mr. Kushner stating that in a public statement?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Kushner ever talk to you about any email that
he had received like that around the tax returns?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so. He may have, but | probably would have
remembered that.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, the WikiLeaks reference to your father's tax
returns also referenced that by leaking your father's tax returns, WikiLeaks would
be perceived as being fair and balanced, something to that extent. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: | would have to look at it, but --

MR. SWALWELL: When | say "fair and balanced,” WikiLeaks references
that they were perceived by the public as conducting one-sided attacks against
Hillary Clinton, but that if they were releasing your father's tax returns, the public
would look at them as being more objective. Do you recall a post directly to you
from WikiLeaks in that tone?

MR. TRUMP: | know | read it. | don't recall if | got into that level of detail,

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Ros-Lehtinen, Wenstrup, Stewart, Gowdy, Stefanik, Schiff, Himes, Sewell, Speier,
Quigley, Swalwell, Castro, and Heck.

Also Present: Representative Granger.

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only that this was going on, but | may have shook his hand. | don't remember.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did the general or Jared Kushner tell you about what took
place in that meeting?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. QUIGLEY: You had no discussion with either one of them about what
was said in that.meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you see a readout of the meeting or any notes about
what took place in the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you or your father ever discuss with the general his
December 22 calls with the Russian ambassador?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did your father ever talk to you about those calls with the --

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember ever having a conversation with my father,
no.

MR. QUIGLEY: To your knowledge, did your father instruct General Flynn
to make those calls?

MR. TRUMP: | have no knowledge of the calls or any instructions.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you ever talk to Mr. Kushner about any such
communications?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Are you aware or did you have any conversation with your
father about any calls or meetings that he had with the transition team about

Security Counsel resolutions?

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MR. SCHIFF: And how is it that you don't believe anything happened from
it? On what basis do you make that conclusion?

MR. TRUMP: I'm just not aware of anything.

MR. SCHIFF: If we could show the witness Bate stamp 245. Is this the
email communication that you're referring to?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it is.

MR. SCHIFF: And at the top, this is an email from Rhona Graff to Steve
Bannon dated November 22, 2016. It provides, "hi, Steve, the P.E." -- presumably,
President-elect -- "knows Aras well. Rob is his rep in the U.S. and sent this on.
I'm not sure how to proceed, if at all."

MR. TRUMP: | believe it's November 28, right? | think you may have said
22nd. | just want to make sure I'm looking at the same one.

MR. SCHIFF: Yes, itis. The attachments are dated November 22. Yes.
Thank you

MR. TRUMP: Got you.

MR. SCHIFF: And the attachment appears to be an email from Rob
Goldstone to Rhona Graff; subject matter, from Mr. Trump. "Hi, Rhona: Aras
Agalarov has asked me to pass on this document and hope that it can be passed on
to the appropriate team. If needed, a lawyer representing the case in New York
currently. |'m happy to meet with any member of this transition team. Best, Rob."

And the attachment is about the Magnitsky Act. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Can | read it?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes, of course.

MR. TRUMP: | sort of skimmed it. | think | have a general idea.

MR. SCHIFF: So does this indicate to you that the Agalarovs were -- Aras

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commentary, either public or directly to you, about the election being rigged?

MR. TRUMP: As | have said numerous times, | don't recall ever speaking
to him about it.

MR. SWALWELL: So from September 20th, now all the way up to
November 8 -- let's go to November 9. 12:49, a.m. November 9, WikiLeaks DMs
you again with a one-word message, wow. Did you read that message?

MR. TRUMP: Atsome point. At 12:49, | probably wasn't reading DMs,
but it doesn't seem like a strange response. | had plenty of people that | had
known through various parts of life saying Wow, because | think it was probably
the biggest upset in political history.

MR. SWALWELL: So from September 20th to November 9, we have seen
a number of direct messages from WikiLeaks to you, and sometimes responses.
And | just want to be clear, your testimony today is that in that period, you never
conveyed to your father in person, by telephone, or any other electronic
communication, that you were in contact with WikiLeaks.

MR. TRUMP: It is my testimony that | do not recall ever speaking to him
about WikiLeaks or them contacting me.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever tell the FBI, prior to the election, that
WikiLeaks was in direct contact with you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | had any communication with the FBI before
then.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever tell anyone in law enforcement that
WikiLeaks was talking to you about Hillary Clinton's emails or anything that they
had?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

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MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: -- or whether it was voicemails?

Now, the combination of the two incoming calls from Russia is about
5 minutes in duration. Is it your testimony that you think that might be a 5-minute
voicemail or two voicemails adding up to 5 minutes? That's a pretty long time to
leave a voicemail.

MR. TRUMP: | didn't -- | don't know that it was just a voicemail. Someone
could have picked up and been on hold. | have no idea because | have no
recollection of what -- of those calls.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Goldstone or the Agalarovs or anyone else in that
meeting ever offer at any other time to deliver the promised material, incriminating
information on Clinton or Russian assistance?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you would recall if they had offered subsequently
that -- subsequent to that meeting any further dirt or incriminating information on
Hillary Clinton, wouldn't you?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine | would.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever ask them to?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Isn't that the kind of thing you would remember as well if you
followed up by asking Emin or Rob Goldstone or someone else to give you better
dirt on Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: | probably would, but, again, | think given the outcome of the
meeting | just sort of moved on.

MR. SCHIFF: Was there any followup from the meeting of any kind?

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MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

19

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SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

conversations.

MR.

is no.

TRUMP:

And who did you consult in that decision?
Counsel.

Did you discuss it with anyone other than counsel?
Not anyone other than in privileged conversations.

Now, Mr. Trump, apart from counsel, there are no privileged

Correct. So it would've been with counsel. So the answer

MR. SCHIFF: So the decision to release the emails publicly you never

discussed with your father?

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

present?

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

Not without counsel.
Not without counsel present?
Correct.

So you did discuss this with your father with counsel

Yes.

And did you discuss this with Mr. Kushner as well?
| don't recall.

Did you discuss it with Mr. Manafort?

No.

Did you discuss it with anyone else, whether counsel was

present or not present?

MR. TRUMP:

| don't believe so, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So the only one you discussed the release of these emails

with was your father, apart from counsel?

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two could be reversed in terms of order. | don't remember. | think Veselnitskaya
and her interpreter were on the next corner. And Kaveladze and then Goldstone.
And he may have been just sort of floating around. | think the translator sat next
to -- | think the translator sat next to the interpreter. But again, he could have sat
on this side of her and she could have been here. | don't -- to the best of my
knowledge, this is the setup. Again, there is one person missing, because | don't
remember them being there, but | --

MR. SWALWELL: So to your recollection, you, Jared Kushner, and Paul
Manafort all sat in a row together?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Was there an additional person on behalf of the Trump
campaign or organization in that room taking notes?

MR. TRUMP: Not that ! recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Ivanka present at the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Ivanka present before the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't think so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you see Ivanka present after the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Her office is next to mine, so she may have been there, but
she wasn't in the meeting.

MR. SWALWELL: And if someone were to describe -- if Rob Goldstone
were to say days later that you had followed up and were breathing down his neck
to get the dirt on Hillary Clinton as a followup, would that be true or false?

MR. TRUMP: §Patently false.

MR. SWALWELL: And Mr. Trump, you said that you were willing to at

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how many hours it is. So that's not our goal at all. We just want to make sure we
do a thorough job. So we'll be as expeditious as possible when we get back, but
that would be my suggestion.

MR. ROONEY: Okay. We'll stand adjourned.

[Recess.]

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that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And you logged into that website without having
authorization from that website to use that password. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone affiliated with putintrump contact you and
give you that password?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: You don't know if anyone from putintrump.org gave you
that password?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know if WikiLeaks was part of putintrump. But so
you know, they sent me this at 11:59 p.m. on 9/20/2016. At 11:07 p.m., 1 hour
before, they put this same information, as well as the password, out publicly on
their Twitter page to their 5.3 million followers.

MR. SWALWELL: WikiLeaks did not tell you that they were responsible for
putintrump.org, though. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. SWALWELL: So, at least from what WikiLeaks had represented to
you, you were logging into putintrump.org without putintrump.org's authorization.
Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: I don't know.

MR. CONAWAY: Allright. Time.

Trey.

MR. GOWDY. "Guys, | got a weird Twitter DM from WikiLeaks." What did

you mean by "weird"? Why did it strike you as being weird?

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[2:35 p.m.]

MR. CONAWAY: We are done.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Trump, welcome back. You had last referenced
with respect to WikiLeaks that you had equated contact from WikiLeaks to, it was
your example, Jake Tapper, Katy Tur, or Tom Hamburg. Do you remember that
exchange?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And it is your testimony to this committee that you
consider them all equally journalists?

MR. TRUMP: | considered WikiLeaks a media outlet, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Had either of those individuals you referenced, Tapper,
Tur, Hamburger, Heileman, had any of them or any other journalists ever offered
you login information to a website that you did not have prior authority to access?
Was WikiLeaks the first time that ever occurred from a journalist?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: You are familiar with Mike Pompeo. You know who he
is?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, | know him.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar that on April 13, 2017, Mike Pompeo
stated, in remarks to the Center for Strategic and International Studies, "It is time
to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is, a nonstate hostile intelligence service,
often abetted by state-like actors like Russia." Did you hear those comments.

MR. TRUMP: | am sorry, what was the date of that?

MR. SWALWELL: That was April 13, 2017.

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MR. FUTERFAS: Madam Congresswoman, | think we're going to maintain
our objection that this has no connection to the election. It has no connection to
the matters that are under review by this committee. The fact that someone may
have had a particular Canadian Russian, | guess it is, is not, without any further
information or understanding, that somehow this is connected to the election or
involvement in the election.

This is a -- and if | may say, this was a commercial venture with lots of
details, lots of moving parts, and really has no connection to the matters. We
don't see one at all to the matters that are under investigation by this committee.

MS. SPEIER: Allright. We'll move on to another project. Let's move on
to Trump Ocean Club in Panama.

The Trump Organization has, according to the lead broker, whose name is
Ventura Nugaria (ph), The Trump Organization had to approve everything
because Mr. Trump's name was on the project. So it was more than just a
licensing deal.

There's some discussion that the prices were inflated on the units. The
Trump Organization got a cut on every sale. And Ventura Nugaria (ph) said that
two Russians, Mr. Bogdonabov (ph) and Mr. Kazakikov (ph), bought at least
12 units there. Are you familiar with that?

MR. TRUMP: I'm not.

MR. FUTERFAS: Again, this is a licensing -- this is a licensing project that
has no connection, and we have no -- we see no possible connection to the
matters under investigation by this committee.

And we've -- | think you've seen today, since 10 o'clock and it is now 4

o'clock, that we've been very broad in our view of pertinency. But this is -- we're

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[3:39 p.m.]

MS. SPEIER: Thank you, Mr. Trump, for being here.

MR. TRUMP: Thank you.

MS. SPEIER: You know, in listening to you today, | get the impression that
you didn't have a lot of contact with your dad during the campaign.

MR. TRUMP: | actually didn't.

MS. SPEIER: And yet, we have testimony from others that suggested that
you had at least weekly meetings to talk about the campaign as a family. Is that
not the case?

MR. TRUMP: We would have weekly meetings probably -- | don't know
that my father was always in those meetings. That would be oftentimes with my
brother-in-law, my sister, my brother, other members of the campaign staff. He
was often on the road, as was | most of the time.

MS. SPEIER: But there were weekly meetings then?

MR. TRUMP: Sure.

MS. SPEIER: And so you spoke about strategy, | presume.

MR. TRUMP: Yeah.

MS. SPEIER: So candidate Trump kept talking about this rigged election,
this election is rigged. So that was a strategy that had been discussed by all of
you as part of the campaign team, correct?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that talking about a potentially rigged election
was part of a strategy, no.

MS. SPEIER: Well, did you believe it was rigged at the time?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that anything is possible. | don't know -- | don't

know enough about it to know whether it was or was not. There were certainly

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to the meeting?

MR. FUTERFAS: | think we're going to have to -- if you don't mind, we're
going to have to discuss amongst ourselves whether -- the privileged nature of that
and whether we choose to answer, if you can give us a few minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Sure.

MR. CONAWAY: Go right across the hall.

[Recess.]

MR. CONAWAY: Back to work. Mr. Schiff, you have the table.

Hime was up.

MR. CONAWAY: Oh, time was up?

HN, time had expired, but | understand there was a
pending -- there was a last question that was pending.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yes, we understand the question. Thank you, but at this
time, I'm going to have to request that my client not answer. There are -- we
believe there are valid privilege invocations given that there were counsel, both on
his side of the conversation and on his father's side of the conversation who were
present for that conversation, and certainly, we want to count -- get counsel from
and speak to his father's counsel to understand their position. They may feel
similarly or not.

If, at some point, we all agree that it is not privileged, or whatever the case
may be, we can always respond to your question in writing after this, but at this
point, | have to instruct him, because of those concerns, not to answer that
question.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, Mr. Trump, our research indicates that these

communications are not privileged, and | do want to inform you that if you decline to

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But anything is possible.

| Five minutes, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: And what kind of meetings would you invite Jared Kushner
to?

MR. TRUMP: Same. We had a very different kind of campaign. We're
all -- we were an underdog. We were small and understaffed. We would jump in
wherever. You know, whatever hole needed to be plugged, people would jump in
along the way.

MR. SCHIFF: Why did you think it was important to have Jared Kushner at
this meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: It appears that you forwarded the email chain to both
Kushner and Manafort along with a message that: The meeting got moved to 4
o'clock at my offices. Had you forwarded the email about the meeting to them
before this?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine that would have come up in discovery, so perhaps
not.

MR. SCHIFF: So the first time you can recall informing Kushner and
Manafort that a foreign government might be offering help to the campaign would
have been on the day of the meeting?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to the form of the question.

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. | don't remember.

MR. SCHIFF: But you don't recall having any communication with Kushner
or Manafort, apart from this email, prior to the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't recall speaking to them about it.

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contacts, and he is not in my contacts.

MR. SWALWELL: | would like to hand you another email dated May 17,
2016, from Rick Dearborn to Jared Kushner, with copies to Paul Manafort and
Rick Gates. Actually, | will come back to that ina moment. Mr. Torshin is
described as a deputy governor of the Bank of Russia. Did you know that when
you met with him in Kentucky?

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember.

MR. SWALWELL: He also served as a Russian senator for 14 years. Did
you know that?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Were there any other persons who you knew to be
Russians that you met with while you were in Kentucky for the NRA convention?
MR. TRUMP: | recently read about a lady, Batina (ph) something.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that Maria Batina (ph)?

MR. TRUMP: Maybe that's what it is?

MR. SWALWELL: Did you meet with her.

MR. TRUMP: | saw her there at this meeting, and she was at the NRA
show, but no, | didn't have a meeting with her. Casual niceties again.

MR. SWALWELL: What is a casual nicety?

MR. TRUMP: Hello. Brief conversation in the room in front of someone.
And that's the extent of it.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk with Ms. Batina (ph) at all about the
Presidential election in the United States?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that I recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did she mention it to you?

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MR. CONAWAY: We'll, | suspect, go through each one of them in detail, but
can you just broadly talk about what was going on, why they thought they made
contact with you, and what was your impression of what was happening with this
WikiLeaks exchanges.

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. Perhaps they reached out to me because | was
retweeting a bunch of their stuff, and | have a relatively formidable social media
platform.

MR. CONAWAY: And what was the -- on the September 21 tweet, what's
the anti-Trump PAC?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't know. They reached out to me, asked me for
comment on some PAC. They had put that out publicly an hour before they ever
reached out to me, so | may have seen it then. You know, perhaps they DM'd me
to highlight it. And that's about the extent of it.

MR. CONAWAY: Allright. And then an October 3 exchange, something to
do with pushing out a statement and if you've already done that. What's involved
there?

MR. TRUMP: | believe they were, you know, doing one of their many
dumps, and they asked me if | would, again, retweet it so that my followers would
see the material that they were pushing out.

Apparently, based on my response, by the time | had received the DM,
because it goes through Twitter, so | may not check it as often certainly as email, by
the time | had seen the response or their request | had already done so because |
must have thought whatever it was that they were asking was interesting.

MR. CONAWAY: And then you asked them, "What's behind this

Wednesday leak | keep hearing about?" What was that Wednesday leak, do you

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He wanted to get out there and be speaking to people. That's why I spent
very little time actually with my father, because | figured out very early on in the
campaign that if you're in the same room as him, he's going to create a vacuum,
and | should be wherever he isn't, which is why | didn't communicate much with
him. | did my own thing and, you know, didn't feel the need to bring anything like
this to him, certainly not from Rob Goldstone.

MR. ROONEY: Okay. | have a couple questions with regard to the email
that Mr. Schiff was discussing with you.

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. ROONEY: So the first email is from Mr. Goldstone to you.

MR. TRUMP: Uh-huh.

MR. ROONEY: And it talks about, as Mr. Schiff referred to, the crown
prosecutor of Russia. You had said that you weren't sure if there was such a title.
Do you know if there is?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe there is. | believe it's actually an English
title.

MR. SCHIFF: The question that | had for past witnesses who also dealt
with this sentence, the crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father, Aras. Aras
is the senior Agalarov, correct?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. ROONEY: So what | don't understand, and maybe you can help us
with, if you can, is the crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras. Does
Aras have a son or daughter who is a lawyer? Do you know?

MR. TRUMP: I don't know. | only know Emin to be his son, who's the --

MR. ROONEY: Do you think the crown prosecutor of Russia could have

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MR. TRUMP: Not that | am aware of.

MR. SWALWELL: During the campaign did you ever provide any
individual with any information related to Hillary Clinton or any other can political
candidate or party?

MR. FUTERFAS: Hold on. Do you mind repeating that question?

MR. SWALWELL: Sure. During the campaign, did you ever provide any
individual with any information related to Hillary Clinton or any other political
candidate or party?

MR. TRUMP: | mean, | could interpret that question | mean, if | sent
something out on Twitter, | am providing information to someone, right? | mean
do you mean like specific information that | somehow got somewhere? | don't
understand --

MR. SWALWELL: Nonpublicly available information.

MR. TRUMP: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you aware of anyone who provided information to
the Russian Government or an agent of the Russian Government during the
campaign?

MR. TRUMP: No, | am not.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you aware of anyone who provided information
about Hillary Clinton or any other political candidate or party to the Russian
Government, an agent of the Russian Government, or any other party or individual
during the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: During the 2016 U.S. election period, let's just say from

June 2015, when your father announced as a candidate up until Election Day, did

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respect to the 2016 election cycle? Number 2, with whom, if anyone, did they do
it? Number 3, what was the U.S. Government's response? And then number 4,
the issue of maskings and unmaskings, and the dissemination of classified
information.

So under the heading of Russia's efforts to interfere with or otherwise
influence the 2016 election cycle, let me ask you whether or not you know -- do you
know whether Glenn Simpson, who worked for Fusion GPS, which was hired by a
law firm that was paid by the DNC, do you know whether or not he met with Natalia
Veselnitskaya?

MR. TRUMP: | have read that. | do not have intimate knowledge of it
beyond what I've read.

MR. GOWDY: Do you know who else was at that meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. GOWDY: Do you know what they discussed?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't

MR. GOWDY: Do you know whether any documents were produced by the
Russian Government lawyer to Glenn Simpson?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. GOWDY: Do you know whether they met after your meeting at Trump
Tower?

MR. TRUMP: | have read that, but | don't have any actual knowledge of it.

MR. GOWDY: Do you know whether Ms. Natalia Veselnitskaya would have
told Glenn Simpson, who was at Fusion GPS, which is an oppo research firm hired
by a law firm that was hired by the DNC, do you know whether or not she would

have told Glenn Simpson about then content of your meeting at Trump Tower?

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to The Trump Organization?

MR. TRUMP: No, I'm not.

MS. SPEIER: To your father?

MR. TRUMP: No, I'm not.

MS. SPEIER: To you?

MR. TRUMP: No, I'm not.

MS. SPEIER: To any member of your family?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of, no.

MS. SPEIER: Jared Kushner?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MS. SPEIER: So why do you think Deutsche Bank was willing to give you
these loans, that | guess amount to about $300 million, due in 2023 and 2024,
respectively, when no other bank would --

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that -- | don't know what you're talking about
when it comes to no other bank would. That's just simply not accurate.

MS. SPEIER: So you do have loans with other banks?

MR. TRUMP: We have loans. We have relationships with other banks.
We've built a good relationship with Deutsche Bank Private Wealth. Part of that
deal is that if we personally guarantee the loans, you can get a very low-interest
rate loan, so we'll risk that guarantee as opposed to it just being collateralized by
the project with our own cash, if we believe the projects to be good and that we
can make them worth our while.

Oftentimes, when you have lender relationships, if those relationships are
good, it's easy to do another deal with someone because you just negotiated a

similar deal. And so we have done quite a few deals as of late with Deutsche

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Government. So it didn't mean much to me.

Q_ And even given that you weren't sure exactly what you were in for
based on this premise, as you testified, given your prior understanding and
dealings with Mr. Goldstone, even given that it was we could say a somewhat
dubious or uncertain source, did that portion of the premise give you any pause
such that you consulted with anyone else as to whether you ought to take that
meeting, even not knowing --

A No. {don't believe | consulted with anyone at the time. | know what
he wrote. | also knew it was Rob, and | had no way of validating what he was
saying, so | don't know that | thought all that much about it.

HR That's all | have, sir.

MR. CONAWAY: All right. Adam, 15?

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: You stated earlier, Mr. Trump, to counsel, that
WikiLeaks was contacting you and asking for things that you weren't going to give
them. Do you remember that line of questioning?

MR. TRUMP: | do.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that your independent recollection that you
independently remember them asking you for things that you weren't going to give
them, or is that your recollection after reviewing the production that you have
provided us?

MR. TRUMP: I don't know. | probably remember both. The one that
struck out to me was asking for -- | believe they asked somewhere in here for my
father's tax return. And | wasn't going to leak them our tax returns. It's

20,000 -- it's a rather large document that | wasn't going to give to WikiLeaks.

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MR. TRUMP: No, not that I recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone emailed you on June 7 that he would send
the names of two people meeting with you for security that day. Did he send you
those names?

MR. TRUMP: No, he did not.

MR. SCHIFF: How were these people able to get through security?

MR. TRUMP: | presume Mr. Goldstone called up from security, said it was
Mr. Goldstone and his group, and security let him up.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether he sent the names to anyone else?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe he did.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he have any communication with Rhona about the
meeting after your initial email exchange?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: What would the procedure be for pre-clearing individuals to
come in into the building for meetings?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: | think since I only have a minute left I'll pause here and
yield back to the majority.

MR. CONAWAY: = Mr. Rooney.

MR. ROONEY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Trump, for participating in our interview today with regard to
Russian interference in the 2016 election. What | want to do is ask some followup
question to Mr. Schiff line of questioning and then I'm going to turn it over to
Mr. Gowdy.

With regard to this investigation, our job as an Intelligence Committee is to

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nature: you're aware that the Russians had shut down. | guess it may have been
a -- | wasn't aware of that much. | know | had read about them shutting down an
adoption program for Americans of, you know, Russian children, and, you know,
started off with that.

Because of various sanctions, and you know, this was sort of the lead-in to
the Magnitsky Act, and it was unfairly penal of Russia. Again, it was an Act | had
never really heard of. | listened for a few minutes and ended the meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: And were you asked for the campaign support for appeal of
the Magnitsky Act?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall if they asked. We were -- | do know that in my
statement, | believe | told them, Hey, we're private citizens. We're running a
campaign. We don't have anything to do with government. This is not going to
be, you know, as sentimental as it may be to a lot of people. It's not a campaign
issue, nor would it ever be a campaign issue, and you know, we just don't have
anything to do with this.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you tell them that they should come talk to you after the
election and you might help?

MR. TRUMP: | may have said, If we win, go deal with the administration,
because it was clear that they were lobbying for something to me, and that would be
a standard course of practice. | don't recall saying that, but | may have.

MR. SCHIFF: And did either Ms. Veselnitskaya or the Agalarovs follow up
after the election to seek your assistance with the Magnitsky Act?

MR. TRUMP: In preparation for this, | believe | saw an email from Rob
Goldstone that | was not on, you know, asking about it, but | don't believe anything

happened from it.

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just -- | am not going to permit an inquiry about a commercial venture that has
nothing to do with what the matters of inquiry on this committee.

MS. SPEIER: Well, let me just suggest to you, it wasn't just a licensing
deal.

MR. TRUMP: Why is that?

MS. SPEIER: The Trump Organization got a cut on every sale.

MR. TRUMP: That's how our payment process works on a license deal.
We get a piece of the gross sales price.

MS. SPEIER: So the extent to which --

MR. TRUMP: If Ritz-Carlton does it, they get the same thing, and they
also have approval rights over quality aspects because you'd need that for a
five-star luxury brand.

MS. SPEIER: So my understanding is that you had an upfront fee for the
license of $1.2 million, and on the share of sales The Trump Organization was
eligible to gain about $75 million from the project?

MR. FUTERFAS: Again, Madam Congresswoman, with all due respect,
every deal has a contract that has terms with respect to what that contract is. The
contract terms with this particular project and how the project went forward,
whether it was successful or not successful, did it make as much money as
anticipated or not make as much as anticipated or more money than anticipated,
whatever it might be, we see no pertinency to the questions here.

MS. SPEIER: So --

MR. FUTERFAS: And | just -- | am uncomfortable to allow basically
general deposition into a commercial transaction that has no -- that | don't see a

pertinency to what you all are inquiring about.

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Tom. Thank you.

MR. ROONEY: So just to be clear, can you -- do you know of any of the
people that were involved in the Trump Toronto project, whether as developer or
licensor, that had any influence on the Trump campaign and its coordination with
the Russian Government to assist the Trump campaign in beating Ms. Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: Not in Trump Toronto or any other Trump project.

MR. ROONEY: Okay. Then | won't go into any other because you said
any other.

MR. TRUMP: I'll save you the hassle.

MR. ROONEY: | could go through them all. But, | mean, | just think that,
you know, | think that it's important that we hear that from you directly because |
think that's where a lot of these questions were going and going to go. So
hopefully that answers them, but | suspect that | could be wrong.

Ten minutes to go in this vote, three votes. What would you like to do?

MR. SCHIFF: | suggest we just recess until we come back. I'm not sure
that it would do much -- add much value to have staff ask questions while we're
gone if we just need to go over then back when we return. So | would just
suggest we come back immediately after votes.

MR. ROONEY: Do you have any idea how many more questions or how
much time --

MR. SCHIFF: You know, we've gone through the bulk of the areas, but we
still have additional questions. But | think we're certainly far closer to the end than
we were the beginning.

And notwithstanding my colleague's representation to the contrary,

everyone expects you to be here a long time. It's not going to be newsworthy

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think?

MR. TRUMP: They, throughout the course of, you know, the 40-something,
whatever, however many leaks that they were doing, they were promoting and
teasing: Hey, we're dropping a big, you know, big bomb on Wednesday or
whatever it may be with each one of these.

They were being, you know, | guess, good promoters and getting everyone,
media included, frenzied as to what was coming next. So | simply asked what was
to it, because | believed they were building up to something big and | was curious.

MR. CONAWAY: Yeah. So I'm not real familiar with the mechanics. Did
you retweet or resend that October 3 --

MR. TRUMP: Apparently | did it, because anything that they had sent me,
they had put out publicly on their Twitter account before they ever sent it to me.
They DM'd me to perhaps highlight the issue to make sure | would see it.

So | had already seen it when they released it publicly, and I'd already hit
retweet. You know, it takes about 1 second, so that | can just hit the retweet
button. Everyone that follows me now sees what they had put out as well.

MR. CONAWAY: Gotcha. And you think you did, in fact, retweet that one?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | did because my response to them says that, hey, |
already -- by the time | saw their message to me, | had already done it because,
again, they were releasing all their things publicly first.

MR. CONAWAY: And then WikiLeaks did not respond to your question?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe they did, no.

MR. CONAWAY: All right. And then the rest of the incoming tweets,
apparently, you did not respond to. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

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MR. TRUMP: Not specifically to those days, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you have any reason to quarrel with the conclusions of
the Directors of Homeland Security and National Intelligence that | have just
stated, including that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized
these activities?

MR. TRUMP: | don't have any knowledge of it, so | don't -- no, I can't.

MR. SCHIFF: But you don't remember whether you were aware of this at
the time that the agency heads made this announcement?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | may have been. | have no recollection of being
made aware of it or knowing it. It was a pretty busy time for us.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, on the same day that the U.S. intelligence agencies
made public that this was part of a Russian effort, making use of WikiLeaks, on
that same day, you were pushing out information that WikiLeaks was disclosing
about John Podesta and Hillary Clinton's speeches on Wall Street. Does that
refresh your recollection at all?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: If you had been aware at the time that the U.S. intelligence
agencies concluded that WikiLeaks was being used as a part of a Russian
operation to interfere with our election, would you have nonetheless made use of
the WikiLeaks vehicle the Russians were using?

MR. TRUMP: | don't want to speculate as to what | may have done. |
don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: | am asking you if you were aware that the U.S. intelligence
agencies concluded that senior-most Kremlin officials were orchestrating the use

through WikiLeaks of a process designed to influence our election, would you

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public that they were in communication with you. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: Meaning | wouldn't want -- if | had a response or if | had
information, | wouldn't want that to be public unless | wanted it to be public. It's
how | would respond to any requests from a journalist making an initial outreach.

MR. SWALWELL: And at this point, you had not told anyone publicly
yourself that you were in contact with WikiLeaks. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And you wrote this response, is that right, it wasn't
somebody else used your Twitter account?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Has anyone else ever used your Twitter account?

MR. TRUMP: Sure.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, can we agree that the WikiLeaks correspondence
at each point, from the receipt to the response, is you writing?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: We've reviewed your Twitter account, and we found
180 tweets of yours between September 4, 2016, 2 weeks before WikiLeaks direct
messaged you, until as recently as November 13, 2017.

And I'd like to submit for the record, Mr. Chairman, exhibit 2, which is a
compilation of public tweets that refer in some way to WikiLeaks.

MR. CONAWAY: Without objection. Yeah, we have a copy of that.

[Trump Exhibit No. 2
Was marked for identification.]
MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Trump, on September 21, you wrote an email titled

"WikiLeaks" to several members of the campaign team, Kellyanne Conway, Steve

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California makes reference to, | think he may have even called it a Russian
Government lawyer, although | don't want to put words in his mouth -- | call her
Natalia, because | can't pronounce her last name -- had you heard that she met
with Glenn Simpson before the meeting that you had?

MR. TRUMP: | have since heard that, yes, and | believe I've seen pictures
of her with many of your colleagues here in Washington, D.C.

MR. GOWDY: Had you heard that she met with Glenn Simpson after your
meeting at Trump Tower?

MR. TRUMP: I've heard that as well.

MR. GOWDY: So | guess what I'm trying to sort out is the difference is you
memorialized your meeting in an email, whereas, Glenn Simpson and this Russian
Government lawyer didn't memorialize their two meetings in emails?

MR. TRUMP: | think that was the point | made earlier. If | believed that
this was something that was bad, | would not have probably responded in email.

MR. GOWDY: These official documents, had they existed, first of all, and
had they been disseminated through the media, do you think you'd be here?

MR. TRUMP: Based on what I've seen, probably not.

MR. GOWDY: Had they existed and had they been disseminated,
hypothetically, through an opposition research firm commissioned by the DNC and
laundered through another law firm, do you think you would be here?

MR. TRUMP: | highly doubt it.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. Well, let's move on to the next part of it.

"Part of Russia and its government support for Mr. Trump." Were you
aware that the Russian Government supported your father?

MR. TRUMP: | was not.

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MR. SCHIFF: Michael Caputo?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Michael Cohen?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: Dan Scavino?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | don't recall speaking about this to anyone.

MR. SCHIFF: Hope Hicks?

MR. TRUMP: | did not speak with Hope about it. We had text
communications. It was that week in July -- in July of --

MR. FUTERFAS: This year, 2017.

MR. TRUMP: -- of this year.

MR. SCHIFF: And have those text communications been produced to the
committee?

MR. FUTERFAS: No.

MR. SCHIFF: And why is that?

MR. FUTERFAS: Actually, | don't believe they have. But we did not read
the committee's request -- we read the committee's -- this committee's request to be
for information about the meeting itself and about individuals who were part of the
meeting. We did not read this committee's request to include how individuals were
going to discuss or -- discuss the meeting a year after it occurred. That's our
reading of this committee's request.

MR. SCHIFF: So your communications with others, including Hope Hicks,
about how you were going to discuss the meeting that took place, you have not
produced to the committee?

MR. FUTERFAS: | believe that's the case. We will -- we could -- we can

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assistance to the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to the form of the question. I'll permit my client
to answer it, but | think there's a characterization of the email. So in any event,
we can proceed, but | just want to note that.

MR. SCHIFF: It's what the email explicitly says.

Prior to receiving the June 3 email, when had you last spoken to
Mr. Goldstone?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone's email mentions Emin and Aras. This is
Emin Agalarov and Aras Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: After you received the email from Rob Goldstone, did you
discuss it with your father at any time?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that I recall.

MR. SCHIFF: So at no point you discussed receiving the email from
Mr. Goldstone offering dirt on Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: With my father?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: No,-not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Tell us, if you would, who the Agalarovs are.

MR. TRUMP: They're real estate developers in Russia and Azerbaijan.
They hosted us with the Miss Universe pageant in 2013 in Moscow. That's how!
know them.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you attend the pageant?

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HE, Good morning. This is an unclassified transcribed interview
of Donald Trump, Jr. Thank you for being here today.

For the record, | am [EEE @ staff member of the House Permanent
Select Committee on Intelligence. Others present today will introduce themselves
when they speak.

Before we begin, | have a security reminder. Please make sure that you've
left all of your electronics outside.

| also want to state a few things for the record.

The questioning will be conducted by members, and potentially by staff,
during their allotted time period. Some questions may seem basic, but that is
because we need to clearly establish facts and understand the situation. Please
do not assume we know any facts that you have previously disclosed as part of
any other investigation or review.

We ask that you give complete and fulsome replies to questions based on
your best recollection. If a question is unclear or you're uncertain in your
response, please let us know. And if you do not know the answer to a question or
cannot remember, simply say so.

During the course of this interview, we will take any breaks that you desire.

The interview will be transcribed. There's a reporter making a record of
these proceedings so we can easily consult a written compilation of your answers.
Because the reporter cannot record gestures, we ask that you answer verbally. If
you forget to do this, you may be reminded to do so. You may also be asked to

spell certain terms or unusual phrases.

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but | may have.

MR. SWALWELL: And do you agree with that characterization by
WikiLeaks that without a leak of your father's tax returns that the public record at
least would be that WikiLeaks, the information they were disseminating was
one-sided, and it was primarily anti-Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: | agree that it was more one-sided, but we also hadn't had a
track record in public life or public service that our opponent had at the time, so
that wouldn't surprise me.

MR. SWALWELL: On November 8, Election Day, WikiLeaks direct
messaged you again with a proposal. "Hi, Don. If your father loses we think it is
much more interesting if he does not, in all caps, concede and spends time
challenging, all caps, the media and other types of rigging that occurred." Are you
familiar with that message from WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: What was the date of that?

MR. SWALWELL: That was November 8, 2016.

MR. TRUMP: Okay. What was the question?

MR. SWALWELL: Did you read that message from WikiLeaks on
November 8?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know if | read it on November 8, but I've read it since.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it common practice during the campaign that you
would check your Twitter account not just for tweets that others had posted, but
direct messages that were sent to you?

MR. TRUMP: It was common practice for me to check my Twitter account.
| wouldn't often or all that often check my DMs. Some would go unanswered for

days, probably.

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taxes, maybe, in Russia and the U.S. It really didn't make all that much sense to
me.

Now, bear in mind, we were speaking through a translator. She didn't
speak English, so | don't know what was or was not lost in translation along the
way. You know, that slows things down considerably, and it was still a pretty
short meeting, but it became pretty clear to me that there was really nothing there
that was that useful.

The second | sort of expressed that, it shifted quickly to Russian adoption
and ultimately to, you know -- and Russian adoption -- wouldn't it be great to bring
this program back, you're aware that this has been shut down, and you know, that
was sort of the segue to something called the "Magnitsky Act," which | had never
heard of.

MR. ROONEY: Aside from this email chain from Mr. Goldstone, the music
producer, was there any other times during this campaign where you actively, or
were aware of collusion, coordination, conspiracy with Putin and the Russian
Government to conspire to help the Trump campaign over Hillary Clinton, or did
you participate in any of that activity?

MR. TRUMP: No, not at all.

MR. ROONEY: Mr. Gowdy.

MR. GOWDY: Good morning, Mr. Trump. I'm going to skip over the
Crown prosecutor of Russia part. It seems like an archaic term. I'm not even
sure the prosecutors in this room know whether or not there is such a thing. Sol
want to skip to the second sentence, if you will, or the second clause, "To provide
the Trump campaign with some official documents."

What did you think when you saw “official documents"?

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deal, or the workup, the letter of intent for Trump Tower in Moscow, that's dead or
that's going nowhere?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall having that conversation.

MR. SWALWELL: So to your knowledge then, in 2016 that deal still could
have been active?

MR. TRUMP: | am not aware of it being active, so | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: When you took a meeting on June 9, 2016, with, as Mr.
Schiff referred to it as the Russian delegation, it sounds like your testimony is
today that you would not have known if the Trump Tower Moscow deal was active
or inactive?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe it was active, but | wasn't involved enough to
know one way or the other.

MR. SWALWELL: So if you just testified a moment ago that you didn't
know when it had ceased, and you didn't even know if it had ceased, how did you
know on June 9 that it was no longer active?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine if a deal was progressing, | would probably keep
hearing about it, and if | hadn't heard about it in a long time | wouldn't have been
aware of it.

MR. SWALWELL: But it's fair to say that when you sat in that meeting on
June 9, 2016, it doesn't sound like you could say for sure, one way or the other, if
the deal was active or inactive.

MR. TRUMP: Ihave no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you aware that in 2016, Mr. Sater and Mr. Cohen
were in negotiations or communications about visas for Mr. Cohen and your father

to travel to Moscow for the Trump Tower deal?

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So let me ask you again: What did you tell your father about the emails?

MR. FUTERFAS: Well, just to be clear, the only conversations -- you're
talking about conversations where Mr. Trump, Jr. was accompanied by counsel and
his father was accompanied by counsel? Are you including those conversations, or
are you saying aside from those conversations?

MR. SCHIFF: | am asking about both conversations -- any conversations
that you had with your father. Whether they were in the presence of counsel or
not, your direct communications with your father are not privileged. So my
question is, | think you've answered, but maybe I should be more specific.

During the period from June 9 to -- June 9, 2016, to July 10, 2017, did you
have any conversation with your father about the meeting in Trump Tower or the
emails that preceded it, either alone with your father, in the company of others, or in
the company of counsel?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So the first discussion you had with your father would have
been in the presence of counsel on July --

MR. TRUMP: | believe 11th.

MR. SCHIFF: -- 11th of this year.

MR. FUTERFAS: Whatever the Monday was. It might have been 10th,
July 10, whatever the Monday --

MR. TRUMP: Whatever that Monday was.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yeah.

MR. SCHIFF: And without asking about any of your comments to your
attorney or your attorney's comments to you, what did you tell your father, and what

did your father tell you about the meeting and the emails that were exchanged prior

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have been referring to them on June 7?

MR. TRUMP: |! don't know that that's what he was referring to.

MR. SCHIFF: Was he referring to the information that had been promised in
the Trump Tower meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | didn't speak to him, to my recollection, about it at all,
so | would find that very hard to believe.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether Mr. Manafort or Mr. Kushner spoke
with your father about what was promised in the Trump Tower meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether anyone else spoke to your father about
the Trump Tower meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether your father was aware that the Russian
Government, at least according to Aras Agalarov through Emin and Rob Goldstone,
was offering dirt on Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: On several occasions during the campaign and afterwards,
the Agalarovs sent notes wishing good luck or conveying congratulations to your
father via Rob Goldstone who then emailed Rhona Graff. On each occasion,
Rhona made sure that your father saw those notes and made it clear that doing so
was, quote, "important." And he replied more than once with many handwritten
notes of his own.

But in this instance, when Aras Agalarov offered your father a gift of helpful
information from the Russian Government, that information wasn't passed on to

your father?

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EXECUTIVE SESSION

PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

INTERVIEW OF: DONALD TRUMP, JR.

Wednesday, December 6, 2017
Washington, D.C.

The interview in the above matter was held in Room HVC-304, the Capitol,

commencing at 9:59 a.m.

Present: Representatives Conaway, King, LoBiondo, Rooney,

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MR. TRUMP: Could you -- I'd have to see them both. | don't have them in
front of me, so | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you, in a statement that was included in the New
York Times story, you were quoted as saying, quote, "It was a short introductory
meeting. | asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program
about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American
families years ago and was since ended by the Russian Government. But it was
not a campaign issue at the time, and there was no followup. | was asked to attend
the meeting by an acquaintance. | was not told the name of the person | would be
meeting with beforehand."

Was this the entirety of the statement that you issued?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it was. | don't have them, you know, | don't have
them in front of me, but | believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, this statement makes no mention of the purpose of the
meeting, which was, as you understood it prior to going to the meeting, to obtain dirt
on Hillary Clinton. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether that was your father's preference, that
you issue a statement that excluded that?

MR. TRUMP: | don't think | know.

MR. FUTERFAS: If | may have a moment.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. TRUMP: I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes. The statement makes no mention of the purpose of the

meeting, which was to obtain derogatory information about Secretary Clinton. Was

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MR. TRUMP: He's totally disputed that. It's totally inaccurate. And none
of our bank statements or any accounting that has been presented and made
public has -- I'm not aware of any Russian financial institutions that were involved.

MS. SPEIER: Well, maybe not from Russian financial institutions, but
Russian oligarchs that invest in your properties.

MR. TRUMP: I'm not aware of any investors or partners that are -- if we're
a developer, and we're in charge of that, I'm not aware of any of that.

Now, if someone is a buyer of a condominium unit that we build, they may
be, yes. They're investing in a building that we built. They are owning it, just like
anyone else could. That doesn't make them a partner. It doesn't make them an
investor with us. It doesn't make them anything other than a buyer of real estate.

Hore minute.

MS. SPEIER: So in 1984, so this is before you became associated with
the organization --

MR. TRUMP: | was 7.

MS. SPEIER: Well, so you won't remember this, but you've certainly heard
about this. David Begotin (ph), a Russian emigre with little apparent financial
resources, purchased five units in Trump Tower for $6 million, allin cash. The
transaction was so unusual that your father personally attended the closing.

MR. TRUMP: | have not read this, by the way, so | don't know.

MS. SPEIER: Allright. Allright. So this is new to you.

In 1987, Begotin (ph) pled guilty to taking part in a massive gasoline
bootlegging scheme with Russian mobsters. The government seized all five of
those condos at Trump Tower, saying that they had been purchased to launder

money to shelter and hide assets.

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MR. TRUMP: Brad Parscale was, you know, data operation as well as
social media. Dan Scavino was social media. The other names, you probably
know.

MR. GOWDY: Kellyanne Conway would be the Kellyanne Conway that we
think that is.

Steve Bannon, was he in an official role with the campaign at the time.

MR. TRUMP: | believe he was at that time, yes.

MR. GOWDY: Jared Kushner would be your brother-in-law and also
someone involved in the campaign.

Dave Bossie?

MR. TRUMP: Another higher campaign person.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. So, "Guys, | got a weird Twitter DM from
WikiLeaks. See below. Tried the password, and it works, and the ‘about’ section
they reference contains the next pic in terms of who is behind it. Not sure if this is
anything."

Aside from the plain language of "not sure if this is anything," what did you
mean by that?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine the words speak for themselves.

MR. GOWDY: | would think so. "But it seems like it's really WikiLeaks
asking me, as | follow them, and it is a DM.". What did you mean by that?

MR. TRUMP: If you follow someone and they follow you, you can
exchange direct messages, almost like having, you know, an email account one
way or the other. If you don't follow someone, you can maybe send them and
there's another -- but they were -- they would have been able to reach out to me.

It's a verified account, so it appeared to me like it was possibly WikiLeaks. But |

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MR. TRUMP: | don't recall. | just know | have seen one correspondence
with her in it talking about if things progress or whatever, we would need to bring in
a good architect to look at the deal.

MR. SWALWELL: In November 2015, Mr. Sater was attempting to
connect your father, a candidate for President at the time, with Vladimir Putin.

Are you familiar with that effort?

MR. TRUMP: With Vladimir Putin? No, | am not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Cohen ever talk to you about email exchanges
he had with Mr. Sater with respect to the Trump Tower in Moscow?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Sater had told Mr. Cohen on November 3rd, 2015,
"buddy boy" -- | am sorry, "Buddy, our boy, can become President of the United
States and we can engineer it. | will get all of Putin's team to buy in on this." Did
Mr. Cohen ever relay that sentiment from Mr. Sater to you.

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Had your sister ever sat in Vladimir Putin's chair?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you heard of that account from Mr. Cohen or Mr.
Sater?

MR. TRUMP: | have heard of that in preparation for this. | don't know that
that's accurate.

MR. SWALWELL: Has she ever told you that she sat in his chair?

MR. TRUMP: She hasn't.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back. | have more questions.

MR. CONAWAY: No questions on our side at this time. Your 15 minutes.

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ALAN G. GARTEN

EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION

725 FIFTH AVENUE

NEW YORK, NY 10022

KARINA V. LYNCH, ESQ.
WILLIAMS & JENSEN, PLLC
701 8TH STREET, N.W.
WASHINGTON, DC 20001

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MS. SPEIER: One of the things that we are looking at --

HS Vi2’ar, we have 1 more minute. | apologize. We have 1
more minute.

MS. SPEIER: -- is the active measures that Russia was taking during the
campaign and after to persuade either the President or the candidate. And in this
particular case, you had a dozen units that were purchased by two Russians.

MR. TRUMP: In what year?

MS. SPEIER: And | regret that | don't have the exact date here. But what
is significant is that most of these clients, according to Ventura Nugaria (ph), who :
was selected by The Trump Organization to be the broker, said that most of his
clients never intended to live at Ocean Colony.

And so the question becomes, what due diligence do you within The Trump
Organization do to make sure that those who invest are complying with the
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act?

MR. TRUMP: Again, we weren't the sales organization and we weren't the
developer. We had licensed it. And if people buy investment property in an
emerging market like Panama -- again, | too don't understand the relevance of
this. | could have bought units. You could have bought units. Other people
bought units in Panama. | don't -- if a Russian did this in 2010, what's the point
now --

MR. GARTEN: These are legal issues, and | would rather him not answer
this question.

HE Time. wr Rooney.

MR. ROONEY: Well, let me try to boil it down, because | think, having

been here for some of the other witnesses where this may be tied up, and, you

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be no phone call if you don't produce them.

MR. FUTERFAS: | don't have those documents in front of me. |
understand what you're saying. And we'll review the documents we've produced,
and we will also look for records, cell phone records in advance of that.

MR. CASTRO: Thank you.

What did you they -- what did you discuss at the dinner that caused her to
go to Moscow to meet with a senior Russian official?

MR. FUTERFAS: Object to the form of the question. It assumes
causation and -- but, nonetheless, I'll let you answer.

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that | spoke to anything that would have caused
her to go there.

MR. CASTRO: Well, let me ask you this, because in the contract on the
speech it says that you may speak about whatever you like. So they were paying
you $85,000 to go there and talk about whatever you wanted. What did you
speak about?

MR. TRUMP: It was a Chattam (ph) House rules-type roundtable,
probably 35, 40 businessmen, politicians, in a room, and they were asking me
questions about what was going on in the U.S. election. It was clearly foreign to
them what was happening, and it was a free for all.

If people did ask questions of a more foreign policy nature, | may have
given them my opinion, but not based on anything other than my opinion, making it
clear that | was not there to speak as a foreign policy wonk.

MR. CASTRO: Were there any Russians there?

MR. TRUMP: [| don't know.

MR. CASTRO: Did you receive a guest list?

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it your father's desire that this information not be part of the statement?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. | know my father and his advisers preferred the
shorter form of the statement, which | don't believe had that included.

MR. SCHIFF: Did the longer form of the statement include information
indicating that the purpose of the meeting was to obtain damaging information about
Hillary Clinton or that was a part of the setup to the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it did.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know why your father preferred the short version?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it just brought up questions that weren't relevant,
because while it appears optically bad, it wasn't actually what the meeting was
about. In the end, they left it to me, and | decided that there is truth to that.
There's no reason to talk about to The New York Times what the meeting wasn't
actually about simply because that was the premise that got them in the door.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss whether you thought that the true purpose of
the meeting would ever be disclosed?

MR. FUTERFAS: |'msorry. Could you repeat the question?

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss with Hope Hicks or your father or anyone
else whether you believed the true purpose of the meeting might ultimately be
disclosed?

MR. TRUMP: | don't -- I'm trying to remember.

MR. FUTERFAS: Just a moment.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. TRUMP: Yeah. | may have had that text conversation with Hope. |
just don't have them in front of me, so --

MR. SCHIFF: So you may have discussed with her whether this would

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and me.

When did you first tell Mr. Manafort about the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall, but | believe we sent -- | forwarded the email.

MR. SCHIFF: And did Mr. Manafort indicate to you that he would be
coming?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Manafort ask you anything about the details of the
meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall having a conversation with Mr. Manafort about

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall anyone asking you, in preparation for the
meeting, what was this information they were offering or who this attorney was or
what you could tell them about it?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't recall that.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever represent to Mr. Manafort or Mr. Kushner or
anyone else anything that Emin had communicated to you about the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So you don't recall having any kind of communication or
conversation with Emin Agalarov prior to your attending the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Correct, | don't recall speaking to him.

MR. SCHIFF: Why did you ask Mr. Manafort to come?

MR. TRUMP: He was the head of the campaign. He knew more about
this stuff than | did. So | asked him to sit in on it, as | would with a lot of meetings
throughout the course, if they were available.

MR. SCHIFF: He knew more about what stuff?

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MR. CASTRO: It's from Michael Erickson (ph). Who is Michael Erickson
(ph)?

MR. TRUMP: | don't have any recollection of a Michael Erickson (ph).

MR. CASTRO: The email is sent to several people, including yourself.
You said that your father doesn't really use email. You'll notice in this email it
seems that this message is sent to some kind of email address of his. |s that
correct?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know what that is. | don't know -- | don't know if it's
accurate. | don't know if they just put in an email that says
«| pave v0 idea. | can't see what the email is. |
don't even know what my father's email is, if he has one, but he doesn't use it
actively because he doesn't own -- doesn't even use a computer.

MR. CASTRO: Well, you produced this document, so | assume that it was
in one of your email accounts. Is that fair to say?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that it was. But get stuff from people that -- you
know, people put my email address online every few months, and | get a bunch of
people that do the same thing and then they start bombarding you with stuff.

| may have met Michael Erickson (ph). | don't know who it is right now.

MR. CASTRO: Okay. Well, let's try to -- because he includes -- in the
message he includes it to your father and to you, and then he cc's or copies
Michael Cohen.

Who is Michael Cohen in the organization?

MR. TRUMP: He's an attorney.

MR. CASTRO: He includes

MR. TRUMP: | don't know who that is.

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MR. SCHIFF: And did Hope Hicks initially communicate via text with you or
did you reach out to her?

MR. TRUMP: | don'tknow. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did she say in her text communication?

MR. TRUMP: | believe there was some back and forth about the statement
that | would put out. There were a couple iterations that | had worked on with
counsel, a longer version, a shorter version, and about which one to go with.

| believe she may have made some minor suggestions to one or both of our
statements. | wasn't -- | don't recall. ‘

In the end, it was up to me which one to go with, and we did that.

MR. SCHIFF: And at what point were you provided with the emails again, or
were they always in your possession?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine they were always in our possession, but | don't -- |
had -- | hadn't seen the email, | don't believe, until we handed them over probably
for -- to either one of the committees or special counsel.

MR. FUTERFAS: Is your question -- just to clarify your question -- is your
question -- the meeting we all, | think, agree is June 9, 2016. The events that
Mr. Trump, Jr. is just describing with the text messaging with Hope Hicks was over
the weekend of July 8-9 of 2017, 13 months later. So is your question did
Mr. Trump, Jr. have -- retain those text messages from the 13 months before?

MR. TRUMP: The emails from the 13 months before.

MR. FUTERFAS: The emails from the 13 months before.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, counsel. That is my question, and it was inartful.

When the issue was raised with you in July of this year, was it initially raised

with you by Hope Hicks or by The New York Times?

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operated as such and basically had our name on it. We were a minority
shareholder.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. Can you tell us what the nature of The Trump
Organization's relationship is with Deutsche Bank?

MR. TRUMP: They are a lender.

MS. SPEIER: Do you know approximately how much they have lent to
The Trump Organization?

MR. TRUMP: They're a primary lender on three of our projects, the Old
Post Office in Washington, D.C., our building in Chicago, and the Trump National
Doral down in Florida.

MS. SPEIER: How about 40 Wall Street?

MR. GARTEN: What's the pertinence of this question?

MR. TRUMP: | don't -- | don't know.

MS. SPEIER: How about Trump World Tower?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that Trump World Tower has any financing on it
tight now. They may have been a construction lender or something like that at
the time when it was built in the mid-'90s, but | don't believe there's any mortgage
on that building now. It's a condominium. It's been sold out for years.

MS. SPEIER: And then Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago?
That's one of the ones you referenced.

MR. TRUMP: Yes, it is.

MS. SPEIER: And that's $640 million, correct?

MR. TRUMP: That was the construction loan. | believe the remaining
debt is, what -- yeah, the remaining debt on that building is about $40 million ina

separate loan that had nothing to do with the construction loan.

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last questions. You're asking my client to speculate about things that he does not
have personal knowledge of. That's what those questions sound like. I'll, of
course, allow my client to answer, but | note my objection for the record. Thank
you.

MR. TRUMP: Yeah. | don't know Rhona would have or would not have
done with it.

MR. SCHIFF: How long have you known Rhona?

MR. TRUMP: Thirty years.

MR. SCHIFF: And knowing her for 30 years, you think that she would have
taken emails along the lines of what Mr. Goldstone was promising and, instead of
delivering them to your father, she would have thrown them out?

MR. TRUMP: She gets pretty inundated. | don't know if she would have
thrown them out. | don't know that she would have gotten to them. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: In any event, they didn't get to her because you thought it
was better to have that conversation than have the emails forwarded on?

MR. TRUMP: Where does it say that?

MR. FUTERFAS: Objection. Object to the question.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, Mr. Goldstone offered to provide the information to
Rhona but said it was sensitive, and you didn't take him up on that offer, did you?

MR. TRUMP: I did not take him up on the offer, no. | don't even know that
| noticed it.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you involved at all in helping your father prepare for the
speech that he was previewing about the very, very interesting information on the
Clintons?

MR. TRUMP: | was not.

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MR. TRUMP: No, not that I'm aware of.

MR. SCHIFF: Prior to the June 3 email, had the Agalarovs offered their
support or assistance to the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you have the copy of the email chain between you and
Mr. Goldstone?

MR. TRUMP: Yes. The one you gave me?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes. It should be Bates stamped 485 to 487.

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Is this copy an accurate representation of what you tweeted
publicly?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: And does this email capture the entire communication with
Mr. Goldstone on this matter?

MR. FUTERFAS: Just for clarification, we believe it does. We found after
this tweet that there were responses. There might be one or two small material
responses that were not tweeted, but -- and | think those were turned over to
another committee. | don't know if they were turned over to your committee. But
in all material respects, that's the accurate email chain.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, when you say they were not tweeted, are you talking
about when Mr. Trump tweeted out his email exchange?

MR. FUTERFAS: That is correct. And then what we found is after that
there were one or two other basically scheduling lines, very short, that --

MR. TRUMP: That they weren't on the chain, | think. It was just separate.

MR. FUTERFAS: Right. They weren't on this particular chain.

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| want to ask you some basic questions first that we haven't gone over.

The first one is, is there any reason why today your memory would be
impaired about the questions or events you've been asked about? Any medical
condition? Any medication? Anything that would impair your memory?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. CASTRO: Let me ask you also about -- and we'll use the time period
January 1, 2015, to the present day -- any kind of communication, methods, and
devices that you used. So for that period between January 1 and the present
day, how many email addresses did you use?

MR. TRUMP: Email addresses? | believe, two. | have my work one and
a personal one.

HSV. Castro, 1 minute, sir.

MR. CASTRO: Okay. How about telephone numbers?

MR. TRUMP: Primarily my cell phone, but | have a work line, and | think |
have a home phone number too, but | don't know what it is.

MR. CASTRO: Have you ever -- did you -- during that period --

MR. TRUMP: Never used it.

MR. CASTRO: -- did you ever use a burner phone that was disposable?

MR. TRUMP: No. And any phone that I've had, I've given to counsel to
be able to review to be able to hand over the appropriate information.

MS. SPEIER: And the AT&T phone for which you produced documents, is
that your personal cell phone?

MR. TRUMP: I don't know. If you give me the number, I can tell you.

MR. CASTRO: I'll try to -- I'll get it back to you after we break.

MR. TRUMP: Sure.

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MR. KING: Okay. Thank you very much.

MR. CONAWAY: Do you need a break?

MR. TRUMP: We can --

MR. FUTERFAS: Can we take 5 minutes?

MR. CONAWAY: Let's reconvene at 11:30.

[Recess.]

MR. CONAWAY: Let's reconvene. We will now go to 15-minute swaps
back and forth. So Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. | want to go back through the
meeting at Trump Tower in some detail, but before | do, | just want to ask some
follow-up questions based on your testimony in response to my colleagues.

I think you said that at the beginning of the meeting, Ms. Veselnitskaya
started off talking about Clinton getting money from different sources. She started
out talking about the supposed dirt on Hillary Clinton; is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: | believe, you know, per my original statement, she started off
talking about, | guess, some donors of both Hillary Clinton and the Clinton, either
Foundation or the DNC, that were doing business in Russia and, | guess, avoiding
paying taxes both there and in the United States, but it was sort of a very
convoluted thing. And again, | don't know if that's because it was just convoluted,
or if it was because it was through a translator, but it didn't appear to be anything
that really was of any use to us.

MR. SCHIFF: But she started off the meeting discussing this. This was the
first topic that she raised.

MR. TRUMP: That's my recollection, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Which would indicate that she understood the

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media, the fact that something that should be big news, which is another country
trying to interfere with our election, very few people heard about, but the Access
Hollywood audiotape, | think everybody knows where they were when they heard
that. So on October the 7th, there were three big stories, all three important
stories. All three of them should have been covered. They just weren't covered
equally. And what my friend from California made reference to, | would argue,
was covered the least of the three, which is the assessment of the Intelligence
Community. | want to pick up on another line of inquiry to try to help you
understand where they are getting, which is the fact that you would retweet
something from WikiLeaks because WikiLeaks obtained it illegally, not just
improperly, but illegally. That the redissemination, the retweeting of that
somehow also impacts you. Which makes me wonder whether or not you have
ever retweeted a story by CNN?

MR. TRUMP: | have.

MR. GOWDY: Have you ever retweeted a story by The New York Times?

MR. TRUMP: | have, yes.

MR. GOWDY: Have you ever reed a story by The Washington Post?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. GOWDY: One thing all three -- well, they actually have a lot of things
in common, but one thing the three of them have in common is they have all
written stories where they relied on anonymous sources to disseminate classified
information, which is a felony. All three of those entities have broken stories
using anonymous sources that disseminated classified information. And yet,
there is no outrage that you would retweet anything from the three of them.

MR. TRUMP: Of course not.

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people they were with. | believe they were coming back from Munich on Air Force
One. So, you know, a team of people on the plane preferred that.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm going to let Mr. Quigley go into that information then.
Before | do, let me just conclude one other matter.

On the same day as the June 9 meeting, at 4:40 p.m., your father tweeted,
“How long did it take your staff" -- "your" referring, | think, to Hillary Clinton -- "of 823
people to think that up, and where are your 33,000 emails that you deleted?"

Do you have any idea why your father was tweeting about the deleted emails
at the time of your meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Quigley.

MR. QUIGLEY: Afternoon. Thanks for being here.

MR. TRUMP: My pleasure.

MR. QUIGLEY: Thank you.

So did Ms. Hicks tell you who else was involved on her side with editing this
or contributing to this response?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it was -- | believe my father was there, and | believe
his, you know, a bunch of lawyers were there as well or involved.

MR. QUIGLEY: Well, she told you that, correct? Is this all by text?

MR. TRUMP: This is all by text. | don't believe | spoke to anyone about
this, so this is all by text, yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. And so she mentioned your father was there, and
your understanding that he would have contributed to this or was?

MR. TRUMP: At least partially, yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. And did she mention anybody else by name?

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remember.

MS. SPEIER: Do you remember Icelandic Bank?

MR. TRUMP: Not particularly.

MS. SPEIER: Well, reports suggest that it was a major source of funding.

MR. TRUMP: They may have been. Again, | wasn't the developer, so |
didn't arrange financing for the building.

MS. SPEIER: And who recommended it? Do you know?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MS. SPEIER: So who were your partners?

MR. TRUMP: The primary developer would have been the Sapir
Organization, and the other owner would have -- other partner with that would
have been the Bayrock Group.

MS. SPEIER: So Felix Sater was the Bayrock Group, correct?

MR. TRUMP: Well, he was president of the Bayrock Group. | don't know
that he owned it. But, yes, he was part of it.

MR. FUTERFAS: May | just have one moment, Congresswoman?

MS. SPEIER: Sure.

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Congresswoman Speier, we have a concern that
the -- we're getting into a question of pertinence to the committee's inquiry with this
line of questions about a Trump SoHo deal that's 2010, | think. And we -- I'm just
not clear exactly the pertinence of this line of questioning to the, at least publicly
stated, areas of inquiry by this committee. And | just wanted to note that and put

that on the table for you all to kind of consider. Thank you.

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what's been said multiple times.

MR. TRUMP: To put an end to this, bottom line is | didn't think there was
anything wrong with listening to information.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you, based on our consultation with House
counsel --

MR. CONAWAY: Time. We are going to swap sides.

MR. GOWDY: | appreciate your desire to put an end to it, Mr. Trump.

And the last time | said this, my friends on the other side got upset. But there is a
reason you were asked the same question eight to 10 to 20 different times. The
longer you are here, the more important you seem, the bigger the story it is.

MR. TRUMP: | understand. :

MR. GOWDY: And if we time it just right, it will be in time for some of the
evening news shows. My friend from California is right, October 7 should have
been big news, should have been big news. Any time the Intelligence Community
concludes that a foreign actor that is hostile to the United States is interfering with
our election it should be big news. He is also right the Podesta emails came that
day. 1am sure it was inadvertent, but he failed to cite the biggest news story of all
that day. Are you familiar with an Access Hollywood tape that came out?

MR. TRUMP: lam.

MR. GOWDY: Do you know what day that came out?

MR. TRUMP: | don't specifically, but it's close.

MR. GOWDY: Would it surprise you to know it was October 7?

MR. TRUMP: It was a pretty long day forme. That could be why | may
not have heard of the other news, because | was pretty busy.

MR. GOWDY: Yeah. And | don't know if it's a reflection of us or the

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answer them on the advice of counsel, which you have every right to do, it will be
necessary, in consultation with House counsel, to require you to come back. A
written response won't be sufficient. However, if your subsequent discussions
indicate that there is no privilege or if that's at odds with our House counsel, it may
be necessary to subpoena you to return. | just want to make sure that you're
understanding of that in advance.

MR. TRUMP: Understood.

MR. ROONEY: And | want to also add to that that a subpoena is voted on
by the majority of the committee based on what the committee's, you know,
arguments on both sides would be or the chairman. So, you know, | think that it's
important that you understand, and that everybody in here understands that, you
know, that is a decision the full committee makes, not the ranking member.

May | see that?

VOICE: Let me interrupt, if | could, Mr. Rooney, but the --

MR. HIMES: | think, Mr. Rooney, that's inaccurate and that we should just --

MR. ROONEY: | think that, if we could, | think that we should make sure
that we understand that because this is the second interview in a row where that
threat has been made, and | think that it's important that our people that are coming
in here voluntarily, if they're subsequently asked a question where the counsel has
said that he would provide the answer, if they -- if they feel like it's not privileged
and then that is followed up by a threat that you will be subpoenaed if you don't, that
it's clear that whatever our rules are with regard to whether the minority leader can
unilaterally issue such a threat, that that is, in fact, the way that it works.

MR. HIMES: | understand. Mr. Chairman, just a point of clarification.

MR. CONAWAY: Gentleman, one at atime. Gentleman, one ata time.

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[5:25 p.m.]

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall getting any voicemail messages at any time
from Emin Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: I don't. We didn't communicate all that often.

MR. SCHIFF: Can you tell us whether he was going to leave you a
message it would be more likely by text or by voicemail?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Castro, were you finished with your questions?

MR. CASTRO: | just have like two or three more.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. Mr. Castro and then Mr. Swalwell.

MR. CASTRO: You mentioned earlier, when Mr. Swalwell was questioning
you about your exchanges with WikiLeaks, especially when they were sending you
direct messages, that you considered them a kind of news organization. Is that
right?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. CASTRO: | would like to refer to the document that is Bates stamped
DJTJRO1269. And it is an exchange, if | am correct, it was 11/8/16, on Election
Day. And | will read it. It says, "Hi, Don. If your father loses, we think it is much
more interesting he does not concede and spends time challenging the media and
other types of rigging that occurred. Does a media organization give you political
advice about claiming that an election was rigged?

MR. FUTERFAS: | am going to object to the question. It's been asked
and answered. And that question specifically was asked by a colleague of yours

an hour, an hour-and-a-half ago. | am really not going to permit him to answer

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recommend to the Intelligence Community how they can do a better job so
hopefully we're not influenced or the integrity of our election process could be
called into question in future elections with regard to whatever Russia's intent is or
any other country that wishes to do harm to our country and our process.

So having said that and being here, sitting here for the last, well, since
March, and conducting dozens and dozens of interviews and asking basically
every interviewee the same questions with regard to Russian collusion,
conspiracy, coordination with the Trump campaign and its efforts to help the
President, the then-candidate Donald Trump, defeat Hillary Clinton, we are, | think,
getting to the point where we have interviewed a lot of the main players with
regard to who would know what, when, and how.

And until this email chain, there really has not been any witness that | can
recall -- and maybe -- I'm sure there's people in the minority who may disagree
with me -- but | don't think so, because we've all heard the same evidence with
regard to people in the Obama administration or on the Trump campaign with
regard to if they were aware of coordination, collusion, or conspiracy of the Trump
campaign to coordinate with Russia. And in this email chain, we see some things
here that raise some flags.

But before | get into that, | would like to get a little bit better idea of this
Goldstone. ‘Is it Goldstone or Goldstein?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it's Goldstone.

MR. ROONEY: Goldstone guy. And you use the term "understanding
Rob Goldstone." Well, that's what I'd like to try to do so is little bit here, if | could.

Because you said something that was very curious to me, is that you didn't

want to present your father with anything that this guy had told you until, | think

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indeed a lot of money coming for new builds and resales." |s that accurate?

MR. TRUMP: I've read that, yes.

MS. SPEIER: Well, you're quoted as saying that.

MR. TRUMP: Yes, I've read that. | don't remember saying it, but I've read
it and | don't have a reason to dispute it.

MS. SPEIER: So it was accurate then. Does that remain accurate today?

MR. TRUMP: Not as much because we haven't built as much new
condominium-type development. We're a high-end real estate developer in New
York City. When you're a high-end real estate developer in New York City that
lends itself to foreign nationals from any number of countries, oftentimes
depending on a market cycle, what's going on in those countries, who invest in
real estate in New York City.

So if I'm talking at a high-end Russian real estate conference, it would not
be uncommon for me to say that, yes, Russians are big investors in New York.
That wouldn't be a stretch. It also wouldn't be a stretch to say there are big
investors in Miami.

It would be a stretch to say that there are big investors in Toledo, Ohio.
But where we build our projects in New York City, it would not be uncommon to
have quite a few Russian buyers, Saudi buyers, Chinese buyers, Latin American
buyers, wealthy people from any number of markets.

So if | was speaking at a Russian real estate conference, | imagine | would
have said that, yes.

MS. SPEIER: In August of 2013, your brother was at the Trump National
Golf Club in Charlotte and said, quote, "We don't rely on American banks. We

have all the funding we need out of Russia," unquote.

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a tax return. So --

MR. CASTRO: So you didn't perceive that they were biased towards --

MR.FUTERFAS: Can you let my client finish his answer?

MR. CASTRO: Sure.

MR. TRUMP: So, again, | don't think that's there and that's to impartiality.
| don't know that there's much impartiality in any media today.

MR. CASTRO: So Jake Tapper and these folks were saying, Hey, you
ought to challenge the election?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't say that either, but plenty of people were asking me
for information as well, so -- along the way.

MR. CASTRO: | yield.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Trump, my colleague, Mr. Castro, asked you about
Signal. Did you use Signal in 2016 or 2017?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection.

MR. SWALWELL: Are there any apps that you had in the period he
described from January 2015 to the present day that you have since deleted from
your phone?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you go to the annual NRA meeting in Kentucky in
May 2016?

MR. TRUMP: | did.

MR. SWALWELL: Who invited you?

MR. TRUMP: Various people at the NRA, probably Chris Cox.

MR. SWALWELL: | would like to hand you an email sent on May 10, 2016,

from Paul Erickson to Rick Dearborn. And while | do that, can | just ask do you

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one of the bigger stories of 2016.

MR. GOWDY: When did you learn that John Podesta's email had been
accessed or hacked?

MR. TRUMP: The same as everyone else in the country, barring perhaps
people such as yourselves with intelligence clearances.

MR. GOWDY: When | use the words "collude," “conspire,” and
“coordinate,” do they have appreciably different meanings to you?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. So then I'm going to separate them out. Do you
have any evidence, regardless of the source, and frankly, regardless of whether or
not you even find the evidence to be credible, any evidence at all, regardless of
the source, of collusion between Donald Trump and the Russian Government to
access John Podesta's email?

MR. TRUMP: None whatsoever.

MR. GOWDY: Do you have any evidence of coordination between Donald
Trump to access John Podesta's email?

MR. TRUMP: None whatsoever.

MR. GOWDY: Do you have any evidence of a conspiracy between Donald
Trump and the Russian Government to access John Podesta's email?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't.

MR. GOWDY: All right. Same three words, "conspire," "collude,"
"coordinate," the question now is the DNC server.

MR. TRUMP: Yes, sir.

MR. GOWDY: Any evidence?

MR. TRUMP: None.

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MR. SCHIFF: I'm sorry. What did | say, Stein? I'm sorry. | keep doing
that.

On June 29 of 2016, Rob Goldstone emailed Dan Scavino, copying you,
Rhona, and Konstantine Sidorkov about Russia's largest social media network, VK,
“offers Trump campaign message to over 2 million registered Russian American
voters in the U.S."

Mr. Goldstone says to Mr. Scavino, "Dan, |'m following up on an email awhile
back of something | mentioned to Don and Paul Manafort during a meeting
recently.”

Was that meeting at Trump Tower?

MR. TRUMP: He may have mentioned it at our meeting. | don't recall
meeting with Rob any other time -- again, other than the WGC tournament 2 years
prior. So he may have mentioned something at the time. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Was this before the meeting or after the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall what he had to say about what this Russian
Facebook could offer?

MR. TRUMP: | only remember seeing the emails in preparation for this.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall him discussing using the Russian Facebook to
create a Vote Trump 2016 promotion?

MR. TRUMP: | recall the email saying, yes, that there is a, | guess, 2 million
Russian American voters that may be subscribed to this network that are legally in
the U.S. and are registered voters, and they maybe wanted to do something social
media-wise, which would be normal, | think.

MR. SCHIFF: At this time, did you have any knowledge that the Russians

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MR. TRUMP: | didn't think it was a problem to listen. | think, as an
American, it would be relative -- relevant for us to hear about, you know, the
fitness and wellbeing of a potential candidate for the presidency of the United
States.

MR. GOWDY: Does it surprise you to know that the other side was doing it
to your father?

MR. TRUMP: Not at all.

MR. GOWDY: Were you surprised to learn that the very lawyer that you
met with had met with the folks that were doing it on the other side to your father?

MR. TRUMP: Not atall. At this point, nothing surprises me.

MR. GOWDY: | don't think | have any more questions.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. King.

MR. KING: Mr. Trump, thank you for being here today. This is really just
based on the press reports.

If this was some sort of secret meeting and some clandestine activity by the
Russians, my understanding in recent press reports is that Goldstone actually did
a selfie of himself checking into the hotel before the meeting, and then he posted
something after. Is that accurate?

MR. TRUMP: My understanding is that Rob Goldstone took a selfie in the
lobby of Trump Tower on his way up, posted it on his, | believe it was a public
Facebook page, and tagged himself, the location, et cetera, et cetera, at the time.

MR. KING: Okay. So not really a very secret clandestine type
espionage --

MR. TRUMP: | would not call that a movement that James Bond would

undertake, no.

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Bank. But we've used Deutsche Bank for decades as well, and we've used other

banks throughout the years. But I'm not aware of anything related to Russia and

Deutsche Bank.
MS. SPEIER:
MR. TRUMP:

MS. SPEIER:

MR. TRUMP:

that we've dealt with.

MS. SPEIER:

MR. TRUMP:

MS. SPEIER:

MR. TRUMP:
approximately.

MS. SPEIER:
these loans then?

MR. TRUMP:

MS. SPEIER:

So do you know Rosemary Robalic (ph)?
Yes, | do.
And how do you know her?

She's one of the heads of Deutsche Bank Private Wealth

And how did you meet her?
| met her through Jared Kushner.
And how long ago was this?
Maybe 2011. | don't want to speak exactly, but

And has she been your major contact in terms of acquiring

Yes, she has.

Is there anyone else at Deutsche Bank that The Trump

Organization has worked with?

MR. TRUMP:

Well, Dominic Scousey (ph) would be part of her -- with, you

know -- her partner in that division.

MS. SPEIER:

Okay. | think that's it forme. Thank you.

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.

MS. SPEIER:

MR. SCHIFF:

| yield.
Mr. Castro.

MR. CASTRO: Thank you.

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this she should drown Assange.

MR. TRUMP: | don't want to speculate what | was thinking at the time,
but perhaps.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, what were you thinking at the time?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. | just said | already did that, and I'm not
surprised that she could do something like that and not have it be a real story.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you believe that Hillary Clinton had gotten away with
a bunch of stuff?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: You went on to say, what's behind this Wednesday leak
| keep reading about, question mark. Do you see that?

MR. TRUMP: | do.

MR. SWALWELL: What was your interest in the Wednesday leak?

MR. TRUMP: They had been teasing publicly, you know, Podesta number
76, or | don't know what number it was, but they were leaking these things out on
a weekly, if not biweekly, sometimes more basis. They were teasing it that, you
know, this is another big one. | simply asked a question about what is it that | am
reading about?

MR. SWALWELL: And you agree that you were demonstrating with your
response to WikiLeaks that you were interested in leaks?

MR. TRUMP: | was interested in the content that they were putting out, as
was every media outlet in the world at the time.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you get a response from WikiLeaks as to your
question about the leak?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

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MR. GOWDY: Lay "Then Candidate Trump" aside, and we'll just insert
“Trump campaign," official members of the Trump campaign, any evidence,
regardless of the source, and frankly, regardless of whether or not you even find it
to be credible or not?

MR. TRUMP: None whatsoever.

MR. GOWDY: Collusion, coordination, conspiracy between the campaign
and the Russian Government to access either Podesta's emails or the DNC
server?

MR. TRUMP: None.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. The other pivot point to me is the dissemination
of that information. And there is contact between you and WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: I'm sure my colleagues are going to ask you about it in the
next round, so I'm going to ask you about it now.

Was there any coordination, alignment, whatever synonym you want to
employ, between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks to disseminate information
acquired from the Podesta email or the DNC server?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that I'm aware of.

MR. GOWDY: Did you have any advance knowledge that the information
would be disseminated?

MR. TRUMP: No, !did not. Anything that | received from them was
actually put out publicly before they ever direct-messaged me to, perhaps,
highlight it, but | imagine | saw anything that they put out there, because | also
followed them, along with approximately 5.3 million other people.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. Apparently there's a division of authority,

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MR. SCHIFF: | think we're getting close to the end. | have a few cleanup
questions, and then I'm going to pass to my colleagues for a couple other items
that you may or may not have information about.

With respect to Deutsche Bank, did you ever have any conversations with
anyone at Deutsche Bank about due diligence Deutsche Bank was doing on the
issue of money laundering?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did anyone from Deutsche Bank ever discuss with you
whether Russians or others were laundering money through Trump properties?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did anyone outside of Deutsche Bank discuss with you
whether Russians were using your properties to launder money?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did it ever come to your attention -- whether people
discussed it with you or not -- did it ever come to your attention that people were
using properties in your buildings, that is Trump Organization buildings, to launder
money?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: After the meeting at Trump Tower, did you ever tell Steve
Bannon that you went to discuss the meeting with your father?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | remember, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you would remember if you told him that, wouldn't
you?

MR. TRUMP: | probably would if | told him that, but | don't remember

speaking to anyone about it afterwards.

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MR. CASTRO: But you traveled to Paris to speak at a foreign policy think
tank and were paid $85,000 to do it. So why go speak at a foreign policy think
tank in Paris if you're not a foreign policy expert?

MR. TRUMP: Because they weren't inquiring about foreign policy.
Frankly, these were foreign policy-type people, foreign people who are very
involved in politics, and they're looking at what's going on in this American election
where this guy comes out of nowhere, and, frankly, they were much less
concerned about policy.

And | was clear before going over there that | can't speak to the policies of
the campaign in that great of detail, but | could speak to what was going on in the
ground, what I was witnessing traveling through Middle America, and I'd be able to
speak to that.

Because they were very curious, because over there, as you've probably
tead, people had no idea what was going on. Frankly, people here didn't have
any idea what was going on to have this sort of upwelling. So | was someone
who could speak quite accurately to what | was witnessing.

MR. CASTRO: You said that you made that clear to the organizers, or to
Jan, | imagine?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. CASTRO: Where is that reflected in the documents that you
produced?

MR. TRUMP: | don'tknow. | had spoken to Jan, and | said it there.

MR. CASTRO: So you're stating that you did this by phone?

MR. TRUMP: I'm saying I've communicated with Jan by email, by phone,

and | said it at the event, that I'm not here as a foreign policy wonk. | can discuss

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MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall telling anyone that you went to talk to your
father right after the Trump Tower meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | wouldn't have gone to speak with my father right after the
Trump Tower meeting. But, no, | don't recall speaking to him about it.

MR. SCHIFF: Or telling anyone that you had?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: You mentioned that you had done speaking engagements
before the one in Paris. Were you ever offered as much as 85,000 for a speech
before?

MR. TRUMP: I've been offered more.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you offered more before your father ran for President?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And when was that?

MR. TRUMP: | would have given -- | gave a six-figure speech in Dubai in
maybe 2012.

MR. SCHIFF: You mentioned at the Paris speech that there were
politicians in attendance. Politicians from where?

MR. TRUMP: | believe a few European ambassadors, some media
organizations, some business people. It was a little bit of a mix.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether there were ambassadors from Russia
or Hungary present?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: You've received text messages from Emin Agalarov, haven't
you?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that -- | don't remember. | may have.

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MR. ROONEY: And then Mr. Goldstone works for the Agalarovs, so it's sort
of a proxy to a proxy. Do you believe that to be true?

MR. TRUMP: | know that he works for the Agalarovs, so | don't know
anything beyond that.

MR. ROONEY: So | guess -- | guess where I'm going with this is if
Goldstone apologized to you, but then reiterated, you know, a need for the Trump
team to understand this act, it might be possible but you have no awareness of
that?

MR. TRUMP: | have no awareness. That's not what | was thinking at the
time.

MR. ROONEY: That's it.

MR. CONAWAY: Anybody else?

Mr. Schiff, 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Trump, by your account, the meeting did not end up being what
Mr. Goldstone had promised. Did you ever raise your concern or disappointment
after the meeting with Emin Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't believe | did.

MR. SCHIFF: So you don't recall whether you spoke with Emin before the
meeting. Is it your testimony that after the meeting you never discussed what took
place on June 9 with Emin?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | spoke to him, and | don't have any phone
records that indicate that | would have.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, there is the phone record indicating context prior to the

meeting, but you don't recall whether that conversation took place --

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double check that, and I'm sure we will, but | don't think they were.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Chairman, those should be produced to the committee.
They have a direct bearing on what took place during the meeting. If they were
private communications about what happened in the meeting that are at odds with
what the public testimony or the private testimony has been, that's obviously very
pertinent to the committee.

MR. CONAWAY: Do you have any objection for us to expand the scope of
the request to provide those?

MR. FUTERFAS: No, | have none.

MR. CONAWAY: Allright. We'll get those to the committee quickly.

MR. FUTERFAS: Okay. Thank you.

| One minute, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: To the best of your recollection, what did you -- was this a
text communication or an email with Hope Hicks?

MR. TRUMP: Text communication.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did you text Hope Hicks?

MR. TRUMP: We were discussing my response to an inquiry to them, and
then later to us, about the meeting from The New York Times.

MR. SCHIFF: So after you were contacted by the New York Times, is that
when you texted Hope Hicks, or did you text her prior to being communicated with
by The New York Times?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that The New York Times reached out to them first
and then to us. | had had numerous conversations with counsel about response.
Then | believe -- I'm not sure the exact chronology, but | believe then Hope got

involved because they had reached out to them as well.

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MR. TRUMP: Again, | didn't know what to make of any of that because of
where it's coming from, who's delivering me the message. _| didn't know if this
was perhaps public documents available in Russia at the time, they just never
made it here or were never picked up here, so, you know, | didn't know what to
make of any of this, but | was willing to sit down and listen.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. So after they use that phrase, "official
documents," and then they use the word, "information," I'm assuming your answer
would be the same if | ask you what you thought by the use of the word
"information"?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: "That would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with
Russia.” Now, that part lifted out to me, because | knew she was a Secretary of
State, and | know that she was a United States Senator, and | know that she was
a First Lady. What other dealings with Russia could there have been other than
in her official capacity?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know, and perhaps that's what struck out to me as
well. And obviously, we've all read about some of the potential scandals. | don't
know, you know, enough about them, but we've been reading about this for quite
some time, so | didn't know if this was public information about those very things
that we've been reading about for maybe years.

| don't know the exact date for all of these things, but -- so, again, | wasn't
sure what to make of it, but | was happy to listen.

MR. GOWDY: | guess that's what kind of struck me when i read this the
first time. You have a Secretary of State and then you have the phrase, "official

documents and information,” and | got to confess, I'm not an expert on opposition

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MR. TRUMP: It was just sort of -- it was odd that they reached out about
some, you know, again, recycled PAC, but, you know, again, at this time, | didn't
know who was doing what and where. They're asking me for comment behind it.
They're telling me it's about to go live. | wanted to see what, if anything, we knew
about it and who was saying what.

MR. GOWDY: Is this the first contact you had ever had with WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, | believe it is.

MR. GOWDY: So you'd never reached out to them before, and to your
knowledge, they never reached out to you before?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. GOWDY: | want to go back to your response, "off the record." If
there is any group in the world that would understand what that phrase means and
why it was written, it'd be the people in this room.

MR. TRUMP: | would think so.

MR. GOWDY: So for those who may not have used that phrase in the last
30 seconds, what did you mean by that?

MR. TRUMP: | mean, | wasn't going to reply to something, a question
asked by a media organization, without any knowledge until | could ascertain what,
if anything, there was to reply about. It was clear that there wasn't anything to
reply about.

MR. GOWDY: Again, you and | have different perspectives on WikiLeaks,
but your perspective is the only one that matters today, and you viewed them as a
media outlet.

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. GOWDY: Had other media outlets or personalities contacted you in

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MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall after the main G20 meeting there was a private
meeting with your father and leaders of the G20, a private dinner?

MR. TRUMP: | know there was a -- | read about a private dinner at the G20,
yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you also read that at that meeting the President left his
seat next to the Japanese Prime Minister and joined Mr. Putin for a conversation?

MR. TRUMP: At the same table?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: Yes, I'd read that.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you read also that he represented that he had
discussed with Mr. Putin adoptions?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall reading that, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know why your father would have raised the topic of
adoptions contemporaneous with your discussion with him about the statement?

MR. TRUMP: | don't, and perhaps it was brought up by Mr. Putin. | don't
know. | wasn't there.

MR. SCHIFF: To your knowledge, was this an effort to portray the Trump
Tower meeting about adoptions and nothing more?

MR. FUTERFAS: May | ask, Congressman Schiff, if you could rephrase the
question. | don't know what the "this" is in that sentence, in that question.

MR. SCHIFF: To your knowledge, was the President representing that he
discussed adoptions with Mr. Putin the continuation of an effort to portray the
meeting you had at Trump Tower as about nothing more than adoptions?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object, I'm sorry, on another ground. | think your

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MR. TRUMP: I'm certain | don't recall ever doing that, correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, you're certain you don't recall is different than
you're certain it didn't happen.

MR. TRUMP: | never said I'm certain it didn't happen. | said | don't recall
ever having those conversations with my father.

MR. SWALWELL: So it could have happened?

MR. TRUMP: Anything is possible, but | doubt it.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, I'm just trying to focus on what could have
happened. And it sounds like, just as you're saying it could not have happened, it
also equally could have happened?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | would remember a conversation like that with my
father, and | also would not bring my father something that | believed to be a waste
of time. I've learned that through many years of working with him the hard way.

MR. SWALWELL: You're certain that, following the June 9 meeting, you did
not talk to Mr. Goldstone ever again about the June 9 meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that's accurate, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever talk to a Paula Shughart about the June 9
meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Does that mean that you could have or that you did not?

MR. TRUMP: Paula Shughart used to run the Miss Universe organization.
| don't believe that even during that time, I'm not sure, she doesn't work with us
anymore, but it's just not something | would talk to a person that ran Miss Universe
about.

MR. SWALWELL: She worked with Mr. Goldstone?

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what | know.

MR. CASTRO: Right. But you just said that before you went over there
you communicated that?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. CASTRO: I'm asking you -- I'm saying | didn't see that in the
documents you produced which were emails. So are you saying that you did that
by some other means, such as by telephone?

MR. TRUMP: | must have, | guess, yes, because it was --

MR. CASTRO: Are you willing to produce those phone records?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea. | don't know where they are.

MR. FUTERFAS: We will look. Are you making -- let me be clear -- are
you making a request --

MR. CASTRO: Yes.

MR. FUTERFAS: -- for phone calls around this period of time that he may
have had with --

MR. CASTRO: To the organizers.

MR. TRUMP: Yeah. | may have -- | don't know when | would have
spoken to Jan, but it could have been weeks before an event like this.

MR. CASTRO: Sure.

MR. FUTERFAS: | understand. We will take a period of time before,
maybe we will go back a month or 6 weeks or whatever it is, and any phone calls
that we find between them we will produce.

MR. CASTRO: Just for the record, if there is no telephone call or record of
a telephone call, then | will assume that message was not communicated,

because there's no production of documents that indicates that, and there would

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Bannon, Jared Kushner, David Bossie, and Brad Parscale. In the email, you
stated: "Guys, | got a weird Twitter DM from WikiLeaks. See below. | tried the
password, and it works. In the ‘about' section they reference ‘contains the next
pic in terms of who is behind it.’ Not sure if this is anything, but it seems like it's
really WikiLeaks asking me, as | follow them, and it is aDM. Do you know the
people mentioned and what the conspiracy they are looking for could be. These
are just screen shots, but it's a fully built out page claiming to be a PAC. Let me
know your thoughts and if we want to look into it."

Were those your words to the team in that email?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Why did you choose individuals that you put on that
email?

MR. TRUMP: | wanted to see if other people high up in the campaign had
any understanding of what this supposed PAC was about.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone respond?

MR. TRUMP: | believe Brad Parscale responded.

MR. SWALWELL: What did he say?

MR. TRUMP: Idon'tknow. You'd have to show me the emails.

HE (Ore minute, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, WikiLeaks mentioned a website. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And you logged into that website. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And you entered, as you logged into the website, the

password that WikiLeaks had privately given you through a direct message. Is

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MR. TRUMP: | would have to check. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did your father ever discuss with you the January 6 briefing
he received from Comey in which Comey briefed him on the findings of the
Intelligence Community assessment as well as the so-called dossier?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did the President ever express his frustration to you about
Director Comey's investigation into Russian interference in the election?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did your father ever discuss with you any of his interactions
with Mr. Comey prior to his firing Mr. Comey?

MR. TRUMP: No, he did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he ever discuss with you after he fired Director Comey
his decision to fire the Director?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you part of any other discussions with White House
officials or family members about the firing of James Comey?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: That concludes our questions.

MR. CONAWAY: Well, Mr. Trump, let the record reflect we have been at it
some 6 hours and 15 minutes cumulative. You have been here longer than that.
We took a break, went to vote, and do all that kind of good stuff. Thank you very
much for your straightforwardness in answering all of our questions. And as we
said earlier on, if there is something else that comes up, we will be back in touch.
Thank you for today. We appreciate it. We are adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 5:51 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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the current administration." _ The email goes on to say that "Russia planned to use
the NRA's annual convention to make first contact with the Trump campaign."
Who is the emissary referred to in this email?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you familiar with this effort to have a Kremlin
connection at the NRA meeting in Kentucky?

MR. TRUMP: As it relates to through Rick Dearborn or Paul Erickson, no.

MR. SWALWELL: As it relates to anyone. Were you aware of any effort
at the NRA convention in Kentucky for Russians to reach out to you or anyone
with the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: =| was made aware, | believe, at the time, that a friend,
acquaintance that was maybe a former top guy at the NRA had an associate or a
friend who was a Russian. He asked if | would say hello to him.

MR. SWALWELL: Who was your acquaintance?

MR. TRUMP: Was that David --

MR. FUTERFAS: Your recollection. Whatever you recall.

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall exactly.

MR. SWALWELL: Who was the person, the Russian that he wanted you
to talk to at the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | am not sure if | knew at the time, but it turns out to be Mr.
Torshin.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that Alexander Torshin?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you meet Mr. Torshin at the NRA meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

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MR. SWALWELL: If we were to review your direct messages on either
October 12th, when you did not respond to a WikiLeaks direct message, or on
November 8, would we find that you were active on direct message those days?

MR. TRUMP: I don'tknow. | guess November 8 was Election Day, so |
may very well have been active.

MR. SWALWELL: Your testimony is that you don't --

MR. TRUMP: | have no recollection of being active on there. | was very
active on social media that day, but | also had other people operating that while |
was on TV, on radio, et cetera. So -~-

MR. SWALWELL: In this direct message of November 8, WikiLeaks using
a phrase "rigging." They go on to say the discussion about the rigging may be
transformative as it exposes media corruption, primary corruption, PAC corruption,
et cetera. You are familiar with your father's statements publicly prior to election
day that the election might be rigged?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: What was the genesis of the rigging claims that your
father was making?

MR. TRUMP: Well, you know, whatever he has put out there publicly
would be that. | don't recall having specific conversations with him about it. But
he believed that there was some injustice, generally speaking, in the system.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever share with him this November 8, 2016,
WikiLeaks direct message?

MR. TRUMP: No. We were all very busy on November 8. _| certainly
would not have done that.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever share with him any WikiLeaks

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MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

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TRUMP: | would imagine it was Michael, but | don't know.
SWALWELL: Did you work on the same floor in 2015 as Michael?
TRUMP: No, | did not.

SWALWELL: What floor was he on?

TRUMP: 26.

SWALWELL: And what floor were you on?

TRUMP: 25.

SWALWELL: Who is Felix Sater?

TRUMP: Felix Sater was a developer. He was a gentleman who

worked at what was then the Bayrock Group, an organization that did two projects

with us where we licensed -- well, one where we were partial owner, but primarily

a licensor of our brand and expertise.

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

SWALWELL: When did you first meet Felix Sater?

TRUMP: Mid-2000s.

SWALWELL: How were you introduced to him?

TRUMP: | guess through the Bayrock Group.

SWALWELL: And I am going to stick -- | know there is other

questions that Ms. Speier is going to have in a moment about that. But with

respect to Mr. Sater and Mr. Cohen, what did Mr. Cohen tell you for the Trump

Tower 2015 project that Mr. Sater's role would be?

MR.

TRUMP: I don't remember him per se having a role. | know that they

were talking about it. | think | generally think of Mr. Sater as a broker. So if he

made introductions to Michael, to whoever the developer would have been,

because we wouldn't have been a developer for the most part outside of the

country. So | would have likely assumed he would have been a broker, but | don't

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For the PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE:

For DONALD TRUMP, JR.:

ALAN S. FUTERFAS, ESQ.
565 FIFTH AVENUE, 7TH FLOOR
NEW YORK, NY 10017

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MR. TRUMP: | am sorry, what was the date of that again?

MR. SWALWELL: October 12, 9:23 a.m. Do you see that?

MR. TRUMP: Yep. 9:23?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: Okay.

MR. SWALWELL: Why did you retweet that one?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. | guess | thought it was relevant at the time.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk to your father at all prior to that retweet?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. FUTERFAS: [am sorry to interrupt. Are you getting -- do we know
whether this time is Eastern Standard Time or some other time linked to his
phone, because he was in Europe on this date, so -- just point of clarification.

MR. SWALWELL: Counsel, it's a fair question, and | will make sure we
clear it up before we end the interview. A lot of this production was provided by
your client.

MR. CONAWAY: Wewill swap sides. We have got some questions.
=

HN, 000 afternoon. As mentioned, | am a member of the
majority staff, and just had a couple things | wanted to follow up on.

EXAMINATION
oY

Q_ With respect to your direct messages with WikiLeaks, | believe it has
been your testimony that you viewed them analogous or similar to other press
outlets with which you were interacting. Just now, Mr. Swalwell made reference

to the fact that the Intelligence Community, both under President Obama and

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MR. TRUMP: | don't know if she was with him the whole time. This is a
chain of events over maybe 2 days? Soldon'tknow. She was traveling with him.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, | think you said to Mr. Quigley that Hope Hicks
communicated to you that your father preferred the short version of the statement.
Is that right? ;

MR. TRUMP: | believe that is correct, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you speak to your father directly during this period about
how to respond to the New York Times?

MR. TRUMP: No, I did not. In fact, she asked me if | wanted to, and | said
there's no need. | had the information | had. | had worked with counsel. | was
happy with the short statement, and | put it out accordingly.

MR. SCHIFF: So you had no direct discussion with your father prior to
putting your statement out about the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And the only way that you know your father preferred the
short version was because Hope Hicks told you that?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that's correct, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Did anyone other than Hope Hicks communicate to you what
your father's view was on the statement?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. SCHIFF: To what degree was your father involved in drafting the
statement?

MR. TRUMP: | don't think he was very significantly involved at all, because |
had worked extensively with counsel on numerous drafts, and the final product

was -- | don't want to say identical but virtually identical to those statements. So

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MR. TRUMP: Best guesstimate, probably 20 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: And at what point did Mr. Kushner take the call?

MR. TRUMP: Halfway through.

MR. SCHIFF: And did he leave the room to take the call?

MR. TRUMP: | believe he did.

MR. SCHIFF: And did he return?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe he did.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss the meeting with Mr. Kushner afterwards?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: So you never discussed the meeting with Mr. Kushner?

MR. TRUMP: | have no recollection of speaking about the meeting ever
again, frankly, once we left.

MR. SCHIFF: So you didn't speak to Mr. Kushner about the meeting before
you went into it, and you didn't speak to him after the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And you didn't speak to Mr. Manafort before the meeting, and
you didn't speak to Mr. Manafort after the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | have no recollection of speaking to either of them before or
after the meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: So neither of them said effectively what was that all about, or
why did you set up that meeting or what was supposed to happen there?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did Ms. Veselnitskaya say during the meeting about
the Magnitsky Act?

MR. TRUMP: It started off with Russian adoption, sort of the sentimental

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MR. GOWDY: Allright. Well, you know how lawyers are. There's a
reason people don't like them, and they are going to focus on that very last
phrase, which is "to the best of your knowledge," because they're going to say,
Well, you could have known it at some point but now don't recall it.

MR. TRUMP: No, I don't recall ever hearing that. | don't recall seeing
anything of the sort. | just don't believe it happened, and | believe that is severe
enough that if | had at one point in time heard it, | would remember it.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. Back to the meeting that you had. | don't know
how to pronounce the name of the Act that's in the document, Magnitsky.

MR. TRUMP: Magnitsky, | believe.

MR. GOWDY: Right. How much of the time was spent discussing that,
and how much of the time was spent discussing dirt on Secretary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: Again, the majority was really split up between -- really
started off as Russian adoption, which was sort of the, you know, what | perceive
to be sort of the feel-good segue to probably lobbying for something as it related to
that Act. So, you know, I'd say we spent less than, you know, 5 minutes of the
20 minutes, again, speaking through a translator about the quote/unquote "dirt,"
and the rest was a quick segue, bait-and-switch, whatever you want to call it, to
speak about Russian adoption and Magnitsky Act.

MR. GOWDY: So to be clear, regardless of the fact that we just went
through that litany of questions about actual collusion, coordination, and
conspiracy, there will be some who hold up this meeting and this email string as
evidence of a willingness to do so.

MR. TRUMP: Understood.

MR. GOWDY: And your response to that would be what?

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MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you a number of questions based on
consultation with House counsel. These are factual matters that will help us
evaluate your counsel's claim of privilege. The conversation which you are
claiming may be covered by attorney-client privilege when you spoke with your
father, when did that conversation take place?

MR. TRUMP: Monday.

MR. FUTERFAS: Monday, | believe it is July 10, 2017.

MR. SCHIFF: Was this conversation in person?

MR. TRUMP: No, it was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you testified earlier that the conversation you had -- or
the text messages you exchanged with Hope Hicks were the only communication,
and you only indirectly learned that your father preferred the short version. Was
this conversation you had with your father before or after the communication with
Hope Hicks?

MR. TRUMP: It was after.

MR. SCHIFF: And was that communication in person or by phone?

MR. TRUMP: By phone.

MR. SCHIFF: And so, when you say that it was in the presence of your
lawyer, was your lawyer in the room with you when you were on the phone with
your father?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, he was.

MR. SCHIFF: And how do you know that your father was also in the
presence of counsel?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | was told.

MR. SCHIFF: Told by whom?

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MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: By phone? By email? In writing?

MR. TRUMP: Probably not email, probably not writing, because my father
doesn't really use email, but they may have spoken by phone, yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. To your knowledge, did your father and the general
ever discuss the RNC platform?

MR. TRUMP: To my knowledge, no. | don't know.

MR. QUIGLEY: To your knowledge, or were you aware of any times they
discussed Ukraine and the Ukraine part of the platform to the RNC?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my knowledge.

HES ust about 1 minute lef, sir.

MR. QUIGLEY: To your knowledge, did your father and the general ever
discuss Russia and President Putin, to your knowledge?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my knowledge, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: U.S.-Russia relations?

MR. TRUMP: Also not to my knowledge.

MR. QUIGLEY: Ukraine?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. QUIGLEY: U.S. sanctions?

MR. TRUMP: Again, not that I'm aware of.

MR. QUIGLEY: The Russian ambassador, Ambassador Kislyak?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that he had any conversations with my father
about that.

MR. QUIGLEY: WikiLeaks or Julian Assange?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

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or from?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Would that be a call that you received?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Does your father have a blocked number?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: You don't know if your father has a blocked number?

MR. TRUMP: I'm not sure | get calls from him. Usually oftentimes
through his assistant. Maybe his cell phone is. | don't recall. |! get calls from the
White House now, so that number is blocked, yes. But at the time, | don't
remember.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, yeah, I'm not asking about now that he's the President
of the United States. But last year, you don't know whether when you'd receive a
call from your father it showed up on your phone as a blocked number?

MR. TRUMP: Idon't. But, again, | didn't communicate with him all that
much, frankly, on the campaign trail.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have a conversation with your father at 4:27 p.m. on
June 6 that's indicated in these phone records?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have a conversation with your father after speaking
with Emin on that date?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: And the second call, which is labeled Russia, that looks like
the same number from Emin. Do you recall that call?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

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MR. TRUMP: Yes, | did.

MR. SWALWELL: Did this trip occur when the Brexit vote was happening?

MR. TRUMP: Approximately, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you aware as to -- well, did you meet with Nigel
Farage while you were on this trip?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall meeting with Nigel, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you see Nigel Farage on this trip?

MR. TRUMP: He may have been there. | don't remember. | had seen
him elsewhere, but not on this trip, | don't think.

MR. SWALWELL: Had you seen him in Scotland before?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | have seen him in Scotland before, no.

MR. SWALWELL: So your testimony is you don't recall as to whether you
saw him on this trip or not?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall that.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Alexander Nix? Do you know who Alexander Nix
is?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Trump, just | am going to ask you to do something
we have asked others todo. That poorly drawn rectangle is the table.

MR. CONAWAY: We will make a copy of that once it's done.

MR. SWALWELL: And if you don't mind, that is an effort to depict the
conference table at Trump Tower. And to the best of your recollection, just using
initials, could you depict where each person sat during that meeting? If you don't
know where someone sat you can put a question mark.

MR. TRUMP: Are you talking about the June 9 meeting?

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something that would be better you discussed over the phone?

MR. TRUMP: No. | think if | felt that way, | probably would not have
responded in email.

MR. SCHIFF: But you didn't respond in email in the sense of asking him to
send Rhona the information, did you?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't respond about Rhona at.all, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And you didn't ask him to email you the information?

MR. TRUMP: No. | just asked if | could speak to Emin.

MR. SCHIFF: Instead, they arranged to have people fly all the way from
Moscow to sit down in a private meeting.

MR. TRUMP: My understanding is that the person, the lawyer in question,
was actually already on her way over here to deal with other matters that she was
doing. | think that's made clear later on in the email chain.

MR. SCHIFF: But nonetheless, you didn't want this information sent to you
or sent to Rhona?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that | thought about it one way or the other.

MR. SCHIFF: If time was so precious at this point in the campaign,
wouldn't it have been easier to just email you the information about Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | didn't follow up for a few days after my initial
response to him. He contacted me. | was going to be around, so | was willing to
take the meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: And prior to the meeting, did you tell your father about the
email or the overture that Mr. Goldstone had made?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you tell Mr. Manafort about it?

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MR. CONAWAY: And you didn't respond because you saw them too late?
What was the rationale there for that?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't respond because it wasn't something | was going to
do, and | wasn't going to follow through on their requests. And if | didn't think it was
beneficial to me, | wouldn't have done it.

MR. CONAWAY: Tom.

MR. ROONEY: I'm good.

MR. CONAWAY: All right. Adam, 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

| just want to ask you a few followup questions before | turn it back to Mr.
Quigley. | want to make sure | understand what was happening and where
everyone was at the time that you were communicating with Hope Hicks.

So the time you were text messaging Hope Hicks, was she on the plane with
the President?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know specifically. You'd have to ask her where she
was. | know they were -- | guess it was the G20 meeting, perhaps in Munich,
whatever was going on at that time. So they were there. | don't know where she
was throughout the course of the text chain. But they were in Germany, and | was
at my country place, and | believe | was up in the Catskills, in upstate New York.

MR. SCHIFF: You said, | think, though, that at the time that you were
texting the President was on Air Force One. Did | understand that correctly?

MR. TRUMP: For at least a portion of that. Again, they did a fast travel
time, so they may have been on the ground. They were in the air, | know they
were in the air for at least a component of that, | believe.

MR. SCHIFF: But Hope Hicks was with your father?

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MR. TRUMP: Not that I recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Cohen ever discuss that with you?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SWALWELL: In an October 12, 2015, email exchange between Mr.
Sater and Mr. Cohen, Mr. Sater references a person named Andrey Kostin, who
Mr. Sater labels as Putin's top finance guy. Are you familiar with Mr. Kostin?

MR. TRUMP: | am not.

MR. SWALWELL: Had you ever heard Mr. Cohen discuss Mr. Kostin?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection.

MR. SWALWELL: Had you ever heard anyone in The Trump Organization
discuss Mr. Kostin?

MR. TRUMP: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: According to the email, Mr. Kostin indicated that he
would finance Trump Moscow. In your role as executive vice president, would the
investors in a Trump project overseas be something that you were familiar with?
Or potential investors?

MR. TRUMP: By some point in time perhaps, but again, we would not
have been the developer of Trump Moscow, so their financing could have been
done on their own. The developer would have done that.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you aware of which bank Mr. Kostin served as
CEO?

MR. TRUMP: | am not.

MR. SWALWELL: In late 2016, the Russian Government approved the
extension of six trademarks held by The Trump Organization. Four of them,

which related to the hotel and branding efforts in Russia, were finalized on

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you ever receive information about Hillary Clinton or any other individuals related
to the Democratic Party, and Clinton's political campaign from Russia or an agent
of the Russian Government?

MR. TRUMP: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. GOWDY:. That might depend whether or not you consider WikiLeaks
to be an agent of the Russian Government.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Gowdy, respectfully, you want to sit on this side or
over there?

MR. TRUMP: | don't think | got anything from them that wasn't publicly,
you know, made available.

MR. FUTERFAS: Why don't we say not to his knowledge. How is that?

MR. SWALWELL: Are you aware of anyone who received information
from Russia or an agent of the Russian Government about Hillary Clinton or any
other individuals related to the Democratic Party and Clinton's political campaign
during the campaign?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to the form of the question, only because the
question is whether he is aware of anyone receiving information. Again --

MR. SWALWELL: Just going to your knowledge.

MR. FUTERFAS: Butit's -- okay. Can we suggest that the question is
limited to other than whatever was publicly available via WikiLeaks, et cetera, that
we have talked about here?

MR. SWALWELL: Sure. Are you aware of anyone who you knew
receiving information from Russia or an agent of the Russian Government about
Hillary Clinton or any other individuals related to the Democratic Party and

Clinton's political campaign during the campaign?

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indicate, that he is not going to speculate on hypothetical situations that weren't
occurring at that time.

MR. SCHIFF: | am not asking your client to speculate on hypothetical
situations involving other people. | am asking your client what he would have
done if he was aware, as the Intelligence Community concluded, that WikiLeaks
was being used as part of a Kremlin-directed effort, would he still have made use
of that?

MR. TRUMP: If the other -- as | said earlier, if the other media outlets
continued to cover them, would | retweet something of CNN talking about these
things, even if the intelligence organizations said that it was bad, but hundreds of
millions of people around the world are seeing it? | may have. | don't know. If
you are asking me if | am the only person that had that information and the
intelligence agency said it was obtained, | may not have. | likely would not have.
But again, | don't want to speculate as to, you know, these scenarios.

MR. SCHIFF: But on June 9, because the rest of the world wasn't aware
of the meeting at Trump Tower, you were willing to entertain making use of
information that was represented to you as coming from the Russian Government.

MR. FUTERFAS: | am going to object to the question. This was asked
and answered. This was the subject, this question was asked for at least an hour
earlier today. And it's been answered numerous times. At this point, | don't
appreciate that, because | think we are here, we are here voluntarily. We have
answered lots of repetitive questions, but now we are getting into where it's
another question that's identical to what's been asked many times before. And
the answer that you received before many times was didn't know what to make of

the email, decided to take the meeting, see what would come up of it. That's

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MR. TRUMP: No, not that | remember.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have any conversation with any of the other
participants in the meeting prior to it taking place, that is, not Manafort, not
Kushner, but any of the other representatives who showed up in the room that
day?

MR. TRUMP: | had no idea who was showing up in that meeting, so --

MR. SCHIFF: So no prior conversation with Veselnitskaya?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: And no conversation with the Russian interpreters or the
Russian representative of the Agalarovs?

MR. TRUMP: | had had prior conversations with who | knew as Ike, Ike
Kaveladze, although he was introduced as Irakly. And | didn't realize that
perhaps that Ike and Irakly may be like Richard and Dick.

So | didn't know that | had had prior communications with him by email
when we were looking at the Russian real estate deal, but | had -- | didn't know
that he was someone | had spoken to before.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you know he was coming to the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you speak with him prior to the meeting about the
meeting itself?

MR. TRUMP: No. | probably hadn't communicated with him since the
deal sort of went by the wayside in, you know, again, late 2014-ish.

HO re minute, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you tell your father, inform your father in any manner

about the planned meeting before it took place?

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179

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether there was any nonlawyer with your

father?

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

lawyers?

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

you.

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

At that time | don't know, no.

And where were you when the call was placed or received?
| was in my office.

And which of your counsel was present?

This Alan and this Alan.

Were there any other parties present apart from your

| don't believe so.

And who placed the call?

| don't remember.

Do you know who scheduled the call?
| don't.

And what was the purpose of the call?

FUTERFAS: We are going to assert privilege at that point. Thank

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss any steps that would be taken to keep the

discussion confidential?

MR. FUTERFAS: Again, the content. We are not going to go into content

to the telephone call.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you or your father speak to communications staff within

the White House or Trump Organization or elsewhere about or describe your

discussion with your father with respect to whether to release the email exchange,

or how to handle the press that accompanied the release of your statement?

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least receive the information, the dirt, on Hillary Clinton as information, and that
you were willing to engage with WikiLeaks because they were a media
organization. Just for our committee's understanding, what were you not willing to
receive? Like what red lines would you have had as far as information you
wouldn't have received if it were offered to you during the campaign?

MR. FUTERFAS: | am going to object and direct my client not to answer it.
It's been asked and answered dozens of times over the past --

MR. SWALWELL: Not in this committee.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yes, it has. It's been asked numerous times what
would he do? Hypotheticals were asked by your colleague, Congressman Schiff.
Hypothetical after hypothetical. What would you could do if this happened. What
if the information was this? What if the info source was this?

MR. SWALWELL: Counsel, | understand.

MR. FUTERFAS: | am directing him not to answer. It's asked and
answered repeatedly, and | think it's an argumentative --

MR. SWALWELL: | understand. So Mr. Trump, you are refusing to
answer that question?

MR. FUTERFAS: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: Sure.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back to Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: | just have a few remaining questions. Did Mr. Froshe (ph)
provide any assistance to the campaign, to your knowledge?

MR. TRUMP: | know he spoke at a few events. | think | met him in
Mississippi at an event that he spoke at. | am not sure of any other campaign

information.

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[1:25 p.m_]

MR. TRUMP: Okay.

MR. SCHIFF: The article that Mr. Goldstone emails is an article about the
Russians hacking the DNC emails. Is it not?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, it is.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm sorry?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, it is.

MR. SCHIFF: And Rob Goldstone is communicating -- this is after your
Trump Tower meeting -- that this is eerily weird based on the Trump meeting last
week with the Russian lawyers.

Did it also strike you as a strange coincidence that the Russian hackers had
stolen Dems' Trump files, that this story would come out right after your Trump
Tower meeting?

MR. TRUMP: I'm sorry, | didn't understand the part about damaged Trump
files?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm just reading the headline of the article. But Mr.
Goldstone thought it was "eerily weird" that it would be disclosed that Russian
hackers had stolen Democratic files right after the meeting you had with the
Russian lawyers, et cetera. Did that also strike you as a strange coincidence?

MR. TRUMP: | don't even know that | saw this article, so it doesn't.

MR. SCHIFF: You did become aware, though, as Mr. Goldstone did and
much of the public, that in the week after your meeting it was disclosed that the
Russians had hacked the DNC emails?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know, actually.

MR. SCHIFF: You don't remember being struck, as Rob Goldstone was, by

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MR. KING: My understanding is particularly Manhattan and certainly
China would have a tremendous amount of investment in condominiums?

MR. TRUMP: Certainly much more so than Russia currently, yes.

MR. KING: Also, again, to clarify for me, could you lay out the distinctions
between a developer and a licensor, exactly what that means to you and The
Trump Organization?

MR. TRUMP: Yeah. We're a developer. We're acquiring the land.
We're designing the building. We're building the building. We're getting
construction financing. We're doing the marketing usually, if we were doing it
ourselves as developer.

If we're the licensor, we're giving another developer who's going to be
building a set of guidelines, some advice as to what we would and would not
accept in terms of quality of finishes, design layout, maybe some help on
marketing.

But they are going out there doing the selling. They are going out there
raising the equity. They are going out there -- or supplying it themselves -- going
out and obtaining construction financing and/or any other mezzanine financing that
would be required to bridge the gap between equity and what it takes to get the
building done.

You know, we're basically a brand, but because we're an ultra luxury brand
we can't just haphazardly say, "Congratulations, you do whatever you want with it.
You call it Trump, and we'll live with what you build.". We do have to have some
guidelines as to the quality of ultimately what is built. But it is nowhere near as
active an involvement as if we're building the stuff ourselves.

MR. KING: If you're a licensor, even a developer, if a person purchases a

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MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone during that conference in Louisville mention
anything that related to the email that | just showed you, which was a Kremlin
connection to the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: No, not at all.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you learn from anyone else -- let me ask this. Who
else from the campaign was there?

MR. TRUMP: My father came in, gave a speech, and left. So whoever
was with him. But he literally came in, gave a speech, and left. | stayed around.

MR. SWALWELL: How long was your father there?

MR. TRUMP: A few hours.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he meet with Mr. Torshin?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did your father meet with Ms. Batina (ph)?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did they have casual niceties?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Were there any other Russians there that you saw your
father interact with at the May 2016, Kentucky NRA meeting?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Who else from the campaign besides your father was
there?

MR. TRUMP: Excuse me?

MR. SWALWELL: Who else besides your father?

MR. TRUMP: Was there?

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MR. SWALWELL: Did you tell your father about the September 20th
direct-message outreach from WikiLeaks to you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: When you say "you don't believe so," that's something
you would remember if you had?

MR. TRUMP: Probably. But it's also something | wouldn't really speak to
my father about.

MR. SWALWELL: Why not?

MR. TRUMP: It just doesn't seem very significant.

MR. SWALWELL: Your father is somebody who has talked about
WikiLeaks publicly, right?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And you had at this point been contacted directly by
WikiLeaks, right?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And it's your testimony that that didn't seem relevant as
to something that you would talk to your father about?

MR. TRUMP: Them making contact about something like this was not
something that | would speak to him about.

MR. SWALWELL: On October 3, 2016, WikiLeaks direct messaged you
again asking that, quote-unquote, you guys comment on or push a story that
WikiLeaks' Twitter page had promoted earlier that day. WikiLeaks' tweet linking
to a page on TruePundit.com said Hillary Clinton on Assange. Quote, "Can't we
just drown this guy?" And that is Bates stamped DJTJRO1265. And if you would

like to look at that, or if you have it already, to refresh your recollection.

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MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Speier.

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April -- this would have been weeks before your June meeting -- that the Russian
Government was in possession of stolen Hillary Clinton emails.

Was that information communicated to you prior to your June meeting?

MR. TRUMP: No, it was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you believe that the Russian Government might have
stolen Clinton emails?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea, but no.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you aware of speculation at that point that the Russian
Government was behind the hack of the DNC, and may be in possession of the
stolen emails?

MR. TRUMP: I'm aware of that ata time. | don't know if | was aware of this
at that time yet. | was aware of those things, as | said earlier, whenever it became
public to everyone else.

MR. SCHIFF: Did it occur to you, when you were informed by Mr.
Goldstone, that they had dirt on Hillary Clinton, that this might be in the form of
stolen Clinton emails?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And to the best of your recollection, who was in attendance at
the meeting in Trump Tower.

MR. TRUMP: It would have been myself, Mr. Manafort, Mr. Kushner, Mr.
Goldstone, the -- Ms. Veselnitskaya, | guess, her translator, and to my knowledge, |
guess, lrakly Kaveladze. | had heard since then that there was one other person in
attendance, but | don't remember. | don't remember that being the case, but again,
| didn't think too much of the meeting at the time.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, Rob Goldstone had indicated he probably would not

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insignificant, it was 20 minutes in a day filled with a lot of other stuff at a crazy,
hectic time, | wouldn't -- | didn't pay it any mind. | didn't think anything about the
meeting.

| didn't think anything about it, frankly, from the minute that meeting
concluded to pretty much this weekend in July. | wouldn't have given it another
thought. So, again, there could have been 15 people in the meeting. | wouldn't
have remembered.

Hive minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: You would agree, though, that by stating that you were not
told the name of the person you'd be meeting beforehand, you gave a misleading
impression that that was the only party apart from your campaign that was present?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to the question.

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. FUTERFAS: But I'll let him answer.

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: The Washington Post reported on July 31 of 2017 that the
President personally dictated your July 8 statement. Is that accurate?

MR. TRUMP: No, it's not.

MR. SCHIFF: So the only input that your father gave, to the best of your
knowledge, vis-a-vis the statement, was to choose the short version, not the long
version?

MR. TRUMP: That's my understanding through Hope, but | wasn't involved
in exchanging drafts.

MR. SCHIFF: Was this the same G20 meeting that your father attended

where he would later acknowledge speaking to Putin about adoptions?

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There is a transcript.

MR. SCHIFF: One thing | can assure you, my colleagues, if House counsel
concurs that this is not privileged, that will be public, and if the majority declines the
subpoena and the witness still refuses to come, the majority will have to explain why
it's not interested in getting the answer.

So yes, | cannot represent that the majority will agree with the minority, but |
can promise you both you and the majority will have to explain why we are acting
contrary to the advice of House counsel.

MR. ROONEY: | have no problem with that. House counsel, you know,
can issue any opinion that they want, and if the full committee does not feel that that
is justified, then we will have to explain that to the public. | totally agree with that.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Himes.

MR. HIMES: | don't disagree with what Mr. Rooney said. | was just raising
the point of information that | think that under our rules, the subpoena is at the
discretion of the chairman in consultation with the minority as opposed to voted on
by the majority. So my point of information is simply that none of us walk away
with inaccurate --

MR. ROONEY: It's both.

MR. CONAWAY: Reclaiming, reclaiming the control, what little we've got.
We need to get back to the witness. We'll have these family fusses off the record
at some point in time.

MR. ROONEY: I'm up.

MR. CONAWAY: You're up? So 15 minutes for Tom.

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wasn't really a significant thing to me at the time.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, prior to receiving this email about the Russian
Government attorney flying over from Moscow, did you know that there was a
Russian Government attorney flying over?

MR. TRUMP: Prior to the email, no.

MR. SCHIFF: You mentioned that the attorney was going to be here
anyway. How did you know that?

MR. TRUMP: | think it says -- it either says something in here, or I'd heard
it after the fact, that she was going to be coming in. Yeah. Would it be possible
to move tomorrow meeting to 4 o'clock. The Russian attorney is in court until 3, |
was just informed. So she was there on other business.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you ask about the Russian Government attorney?

MR. FUTERFAS: At what point in time, for clarification, please?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, the email from Emin makes reference to -- I'm sorry.
The email from Mr. Goldstone makes reference to a meeting that you are aware of
with you and the Russian Government attorney flying over from Moscow for this
Thursday.

Did you ask any questions about who this Russian Government attorney is
or why the Russian Government was sending an attorney?

MR. TRUMP: Well, it doesn't say that I'm aware of it. It says that he
believes I'm aware of. But --

MR. SCHIFF: And so let's assume then that you're not aware of this. Did
you ask him why is the Russian Government sending an attorney to provide this
information?

MR. TRUMP: Well, in his email, he says the Russian Government attorney

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version that she had been presented?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, what do you recall of the interchange?

MR. TRUMP: | know she had, | believe, given some suggestions to
counsel. | gave a suggestion or two myself. And in the end it was left to me which
version, long or short, to go with.

MR. SCHIFF: And was the version that you drafted with counsel, was that
the long or the short version?

MR. TRUMP: Both.

MR. SCHIFF: So you drafted two different versions?

MR. TRUMP: Correct. We probably had -- may have even had a few
more. But there was a long form and a short form.

MR. SCHIFF: And what information was in the long form that wasn't
included in the short form?

MR. TRUMP: More ancillary details as it pertained to the meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: And what was Hope Hicks' recommendation?

MR. TRUMP: Her recommendation, she preferred going with a short form of
the statement.

MR. SCHIFF: Did she make any substantive recommendations or
alterations to either statement?

MR. TRUMP: Not with me.

MR. SCHIFF: Did she make that with others?

MR. TRUMP: | believe with counsel.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you ultimately go with the long or the short

statement?

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MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:
attend that?
MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:
MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:
MR. TRUMP:

| did not.

There was also a pageant event in Las Vegas. Did you

| did not.

And how well did you know Aras Agalarov?
I've never met.

And how about Emin?

| had met him at the WGC championship. | believe that

was the first time I'd met him in person. We had discussed a potential real estate

transaction. Shortly after that, during that period of time nothing materialized from

it, so we'd had some conversations thereabouts, but that's the extent of it

generally.
MR. SCHIFF:
Emin Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP:

And what was the real estate transaction you discussed

We were looking to potentially do a Trump Tower in Moscow

adjacent to the Crocus City Hall, which was the venue that held the Miss Universe

pageant.
MR. SCHIFF:
MR. TRUMP:

MR. SCHIFF:

MR. TRUMP:

And when did those discussions take place?
Shortly after the pageant and for a period of a few months.
Was Emin involved with his father's business?

He was -- I'd never spoken to the father, to my knowledge.

Maybe he was on a conference call. But my primary point of contact would have

been through Emin on that deal.

MR. SCHIFF:

performer?

And was Emin in the real estate business apart from being a

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(12:15 p.m]

MR. ROONEY: May | see that document? | just have one followup
question with that.

You had said previously, Mr. Trump, that you -- that Mr. Goldstone made
some iteration after the Trump Tower meeting that he apologized or felt, you know,
apologetic for, did you say wasting your time or something along those lines?

MR. TRUMP: | don't want to put words in his mouth, but something to the
effect, yes.

MR. ROONEY: So this email from Rhona to Steve -- just a second: Aras
Agalarov asked me to pass this document in the hope that it can be passed on to
the appropriate team. If needed, a lawyer representing the case in New York
currently and happy to meet with any member of his transition team.

So this with regard to the act. | guess my question is just, if he basically
apologized for wasting your time, | wonder -- and you might not know this -- why is
he following up with more of the same in this email to Rhona? Do you know?

MR. TRUMP: Idon'tknow. But | notice that I'm not on the email.

MR. ROONEY: Right.

MR. TRUMP: And | know that he did cc me on a lot of email
correspondence to Rhona. So | don't know, but | only saw that in preparation for
this.

MR. ROONEY: | guess where I'm curious is to, you know, one of the
allegations that's been made, and | don't know that it's true or not, that the
Agalarovs act as a proxy for Putin and the Russian Government. Do you know if
that's true?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

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MR. TRUMP: To what are you referring to? The initial email to me?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: Again, I've stated numerous times that | don't recall ever
bringing it to him or speaking to him about it.

MR. SCHIFF: Why would mere greetings from Aras Agalarov be considered
important enough to get to your father but this information wouldn't be?

MR. TRUMP: Idon'tknow. They communicated with Rhona Graff, and
that would have been something. But Rhona Graff wasn't on the initial email, so
casual niceties would have probably gone through her.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, the offer was made to send this to Rhona, though,
wasn't it?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that's -- | see the date of that, post-election. Yes, |
believe it was.

MR. SCHIFF: And had this information been sent to Rhona, it would have
gone to your father, correct?

MR. TRUMP: Or it may have gone in the recycling bin. | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, Rhona didn't recycle mere greetings from Aras
Agalarov. She marked them important and sent them on to your father. Did she
not?

MR. TRUMP: Sure, as she would have with any other friend wishing
congratulations.

MR. SCHIFF: And you really think that Rhona would have taken this email
from Aras Agalarov offering information that would be helpful to your father and
thrown it out?

MR. FUTERFAS: | would just like to state an objection to a number of the

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and tend to err on the side of believing emails from people, particularly ones that
we haven't talked to and are unfamiliar with. But let's assume for the sake of
argument that what's in this email is true. | read it the same way, he is deadly
serious about building a good relationship with Mr. Trump, which suggests that
one does not exist.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: Are you aware that your father talked to Mr. Erickson or
anyone else at the NRA conference?

MR. TRUMP: | am not.

MR. GOWDY: And the full extent of your interaction, as my friends on the
other side call it, the Russians at this conference would be what?

MR. TRUMP: The full extent? Maybe 4 for 5 minutes as | took a break
from my group of 25 people that | was having dinner with.

MR. GOWDY: Okay. That's all | have.

MR. CONAWAY: Mr. Swalwell for 15 minutes.

MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, prior to November 8, 2016, had
your father ever met Vladimir Putin?

MR. TRUMP: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: Prior to November 8, 2016, had your father ever talked
on the phone with Viadimir Putin?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you go to Scotland on June 23, 2016?

MR. TRUMP: | would have to check my calendar, but that sounds vaguely
familiar. That sounds like the opening of Turnberry.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you travel with your father?

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MR. TRUMP: | don't recall any, but maybe casually once or twice.

MR. SCHIFF: So this isn't someone that you heard from frequently?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: And was your relationship with him strictly business,
concerning his representation of Emin Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: Generally speaking, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he have a relationship with anyone else in your family?

MR. TRUMP: | believe he had met my father perhaps at Miss Universe,
but | don't know for sure.

MR. SCHIFF: In terms of your conversations with him, did you talk
frequently enough for you to have his phone number in your phone?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | had it in my phone when we were doing our
research, but I'm not sure. | may have.

MR. SCHIFF: And prior to the email correspondence that initiated the
meeting in Trump Tower, do you recall the last time that you heard from
Mr. Goldstone?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: You mentioned that he may have had some contact with
your father. What can you tell us, if anything, about his relationship with your
father?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe there's much of a relationship other than he
was a manager of someone that performed at Miss Universe and performed at the
WGC Cadillac championship a few months later. So maybe as part of that. But!
don't believe there was any other relationship there.

MR. SCHIFF: Did he know your father well enough to either call him or

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MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. FUTERFAS: Object to the form of the question.

MR. TRUMP: | don't. The meeting was primarily about Russian adoptions
and the Magnitsky Act. That's not what got them in the door, but that's what it
ended up being about.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you make no mention in your statement of the
Magnitsky Act, though, do you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Hope Hicks, in your exchange with her, discuss with you
whether to mention the Magnitsky sanctions law?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe she did.

MR. SCHIFF: Why didn't you acknowledge the other participants in the
meeting in your statement?

MR. TRUMP: Because in July of this year, if you put them all in this room, |
wouldn't have been able to pick out anyone other than Goldstone.

MR. SCHIFF: Your statement says, "| was asked to attend the meeting by
an acquaintance but was not told the name of the person | would be meeting with
beforehand." That suggests, does it not, that you were only meeting with one
person?

MR. TRUMP: | thought | was only meeting with the Russian lawyer. You
know, then she brought a translator and apparently brought two other people. But!
was not informed of anyone else coming to the meeting prior to them showing up.

MR. SCHIFF: But at the time you issued the statement, you were aware of
there were, in fact, multiple other parties in the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | think my point was that to me the meeting was so

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What was your father referring to?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss the speech with him?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you talk with him before the speech?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall speaking to him about it at all.

MR. SCHIFF: And after your meeting at Trump Tower and before he was to
give this speech, did you talk with him?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: What very, very interesting information about Hillary Clinton
was he teasing?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know, but this could have been at the time when
WikiLeaks and others were teasing information. | don't know how many Podesta
email leaks there were, but | believe it was over 30- or 40-something iterations, so
they were teasing that for months. That could have been around that time, so
maybe that's what that was.

MR. SCHIFF: | believe Mr. Assange only made public that he had the stolen
emails after your Trump Tower meeting.

MR. TRUMP: | don't know of the timing. I'm just -- I'm trying to answer
your question what he may have been referring to, but | don't recall having a
conversation with him.

MR. FUTERFAS: One second, please.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. SCHIFF: Well, if Wikileaks hadn't made it public prior to the Trump

Tower meeting that they were in possession of these emails, how could your father

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MR. TRUMP: | do.

MS. SPEIER: And why was he selected since he had no experience in the
hotel or condo development business?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. Maybe he wanted to resurrect a good project.
| don't remember being involved that early on.

MS. SPEIER: So there's been a number of stories about the Trump
International Hotel in Toronto and how it failed. And you're aware of that?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: And while all the other hotels in Toronto at the time
succeeded, this is the only one that failed. Do you have any understanding of
why it failed?

MR. FUTERFAS: We're going to raise a pertinency objection. Is there
any suggestion or any evidence that this situation has anything to do with Russia
or any connection to what's being discussed here today? | think, on our side,
we've tried to be very -- give very wide berth on the pertinency issues, including
certainly Trump SoHo because Mr. Sater was involved and et cetera, but | don't
see it as to this Toronto deal, with all due respect.

MS. SPEIER: Well, again, he was a Russian-born Canadian. At one
point Mr. Schnader (ph) said that 75 percent of the units were sold. A few months
later Mr. Trump that said it was 70 percent. Later the development company said
60 percent. A year later the company admitted that fewer than 50 percent were
sold.

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm going to have to consult, if you don't mind, Madam
Congresswoman, fora moment. Thank you.

[Discussion off the record.]

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there wasn't significant changes made.

MR. SCHIFF: Were there any changes that you would consider insignificant
that were made by your father?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know specifically. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Were there changes of any kind made by your father, to your
knowledge?

MR. TRUMP: Actually, no, because | didn't exchange drafts other than
through counsel.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you --

MR. FUTERFAS: Can| have 1 minute? Excuse me.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you informed subsequent to your text exchanges or
during your text exchanges with Hope Hicks that your father had made any
alterations to the statement?

MR. TRUMP: No. | don't recall having any idea what my father was doing
or saying.

MR. SCHIFF: And you know nothing more about your father's role in the
formulation of the statement than what you've already testified to just now?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that's correct.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether your father wanted information
about Russia offering this information as a part of its government support for your
father's campaign? Do you know whether your father wanted that included?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: That was in the -- was that in the longer version?

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communications with Hope Hicks, that's obviously very directly pertinent. If, on the
other hand, Mr. Trump's communication with Hope Hicks corroborates his
recollection of the meeting, then that is also very pertinent to the meeting -- to the
investigation. So --

MR. FUTERFAS: Well, | would say this. We could certainly, you know, as
a matter of courtesy, we could certainly provide those text messages. But if the
subject matter of this committee is now going to be expanded to an inquiry about
what -- how someone responded to a media report, | think that's something that we
would have to consider carefully and maybe brief this committee on.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, counsel, | appreciate your comments. We're not
asking your client about some extraneous topic and communications strategy
vis-a-vis the Balkans. We're talking about a meeting that is the very center of this
investigation. So, in any event, your concerns have been noted.

But | would return to the question, Mr. Trump.

MR. CONAWAY: Let me -- the witness is here on a voluntary basis. It's
the committee's responsibility to determine the scope of our jurisdiction.

Appreciate your thoughts, but it's our responsibility to do that. And so if the witness
is here on a voluntary basis, if he chooses not to answer, he chooses not to answer.
We understand that.

So, Mr. Schiff, you'll continue with your questions, and we'll keep moving.

MR. FUTERFAS: Can | just have a moment?

MR. CONAWAY: Sure.

MR. FUTERFAS: Actually, could we have a moment just to discuss our
position on this? Thank you.

MR. CONAWAY: Let's take a 5-minute break, everybody.

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you've beén unsuccessful in getting these projects going in Russia?

MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:
MR. TRUMP:

Deals aren't easy.
So you can't point to anything in particular?

No, | can't.

MR. FUTERFAS: Just a minute.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:
MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:

I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?
| said, you can't point to anything in particular?
No, | can't.

So in 2011, you were on a business trip to Moscow, and you

said, and | quote, "I really prefer Moscow over all cities in the world."

MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:
MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:
MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:

I may have. | don't know.
So why did you say that?

| don't know that | did, but --
Well, you're quoted --

-- it's a very nice city.

You reference St. Basil's, | guess, as one of the most

spectacular places that you always go to when you're in Moscow. Is that --

MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:
MR. TRUMP:
MS. SPEIER:

It's beautiful. | don't remember saying that, but | may have.
And how many trips have you made to Russia?
| believe five, according to my passport.

In September 2008 -- now, this is September 2008, this

country is on its knees. Frankly, the world is on its knees from a financial

standpoint. You're at a real estate conference, and you said, quote, "We see a lot

of money pouring in from Russia of Trump Organization properties. There's

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So you've never heard about that particular --

MR. TRUMP: No.

MS. SPEIER: -- set of circumstances?

HS Tine, ma'am.

MR. ROONEY: We yield.

MS. SPEIER: Subsequently, it appears, once you were in part of the
organization, the New York Police arrested 29 suspects who were allegedly
running gambling rings and money laundering out of two condos, one of which
was -- occupied an entire floor at Trump Tower. Two of these suspects were
Russians who owned Trump condos in Florida.

A notorious Russian mafia boss, Almazan Taktak Konuoff (ph), was the
only target to slip away. Seven months later, after the 2013 indictment, he
appeared near your father in the VIP section of the Miss Universe pageant in
Moscow. As of May of this year, he is still at large.

Do you have any recollection of any of that?

MR. TRUMP: I don't. And, again, just for clarification, Trump Tower was
originally topped out in 1982. So any of those sales, that unit ora combination of
units that he may have occupied, he could have purchased from a third party that
could have been the fifth buyer or occupier of a unit that we may have nothing to
actually do with because it's a condominium. It's not a rental apartment. So |
don't know that we would have any connection to those people necessarily.

MS. SPEIER: So one-third of the units in the Trump Tower were
purchased by either individual buyers from the former Soviet Union or limited
liability companies connected to Russia. Sixty-three buyers with Russian

addresses or passports spent $98 million on Trump properties in southern Florida.

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MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So, in terms of the Russian delegation, for lack of a better
description, you had not met any of them before, and the only one you had any prior
correspondence with was Mr. Kaveladze?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

Hive minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Was the entire meeting through translation, or was only part
of it through translation?

MR. TRUMP: | believe most of it was through translation, because | only
recall Ms. Veselnitskaya speaking. | don't remember anyone else chiming in.
Now that was through interpreter, so her translator spoke, but | don't know that
anyone -- | don't know that | recall anyone else speaking or chiming in.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, the email said that the meeting would be in your offices.
Where exactly was the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: It was in the 25th floor conference room in our offices.

MR. SCHIFF: And how far is that from your father's offices.

MR. TRUMP: My father is on the 26th floor, so a floor.

MR. SCHIFF: And was your father in his office at the time you had the
meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Was your father in the office that day?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: So you don't recall seeing your father at all that entire day in
the office?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | don’t recall much about that meeting because it didn't

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MR. TRUMP: In hindsight, that's probably accurate, but | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: And in hindsight, you wouldn't have invited Mr. Kushner if you
weren't going to get anything more useful than that?

MR. TRUMP: | may not have. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: And it's also fair to say that you were hoping that the
derogatory information you were going to get was going to be useful in your
campaign?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine so.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you communicate that disappointment during the
meeting by asking Ms. Veselnitskaya, Is this all you've got?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you make it clear during the meeting that you were
hoping for something different than what they presented you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember. | may have.

MR. SCHIFF: When Mr. Goldstone informed you by email that the
Agalarovs had information to provide you, dirt on Hillary Clinton from the Russian
Government, did you know what form that information was going to take?

MR. TRUMP: | did not, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you know whether the information -- the derogatory
information might come from emails?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you believe what they're referring to was information
contained in emails? :

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Was the campaign very interested in obtaining what it

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meet with Rob and these emissaries for Mr. Agalarov, notwithstanding your view
of Mr. Goldstone?

MR. TRUMP: | think that would be pretty common. We all worked in the
same building. We would jump in on meetings daily.

MR. SCHIFF: When Mr. Goldstone represented that the Agalarovs had
information, official documents that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with
Russia that would be very useful to your father, what was your understanding of
what you were being offered?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't know what | was being offered. | know what Rob
wrote, but, again, | had no way to validate any of that.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone wrote that this was part of Russia and its
government's support for Mr. Trump, helped along by Aras and Emin. Did you
understand what he meant by that?

MR. TRUMP: No, because | was not aware of any support from Russia.

MR. SCHIFF: You replied less than 20 minutes later saying, "If that's what
you say, | love it, especially later in the summer." Why were you willing to accept
help that was part of Russia and its government's support for your father?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | think what | say "I love it," especially if I'm putting it
off by a few months, it's a colloquial term of expression, as | said in my statement
a few months ago. | would have been willing to listen and hear him out, and, you
know, again, that's about the extent of it. But at the time | wasn't giving it too
much credence, otherwise | wouldn't have put it off till the end of summer.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, were you putting it off till the end of summer or were
you saying that the best timing to receive the derogatory information on Secretary

Clinton would be in late summer?

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capacity, right?

MR. TRUMP: | would think so.

MR. GOWDY: And I guess my belief is modified by the use of the word
"official" before the word "documents."

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: So we'll -- | digress.

You don't think it was unlawful that you took the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't think it's unlawful to listen.

MR. GOWDY: All right. Do you believe it would have been unlawful had
they actually had official documents related to her dealings with Russia and given
them to you?

MR. TRUMP: [have no idea. I'm not a lawyer.

MR. GOWDY: Would it have been -- do you consider it to be improper that
you took the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Not really, no.

MR. GOWDY: | guess what I'm struggling with is how it could be either
unlawful or improper for you to take the meeting with this Russian lawyer, but
Glenn Simpson to have taken a meeting before and after your meeting, and God
only knows what was discussed, and the same analysis not be applied.

MR. TRUMP: I've seen that in the media myself, and I've struggled with
the very same thing.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. There are three pivot points. There's the hack of
the DNC server. When did you learn that the DNC server had been hacked?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | don't know when you guys found out about it, but |

probably found out about it with the rest of the world whenever it broke as maybe

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MR. GOWDY: So we've addressed the server; we've addressed the
Podesta email. | want to address the dissemination of any of this information by
ill-gotten gains, and I'm happy to have a conversation about whether or not it's
proper, moral to benefit from improper gains. Again, I'm not a fan of relativism, so
| think we ought to apply the same standard across the board, but be that as it
may, was there any conspiracy, collusion, coordination between candidate Donald
Trump and WikiLeaks to disseminate the information acquired ill-gottenly?

MR. TRUMP: None that I'm aware of, no.

MR. GOWDY: How about with members of the campaign not named
"Donald Trump"?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of, no.

MR. GOWDY: Do you know Carter Page?

MR. TRUMP: I've heard about him since, but | did not know him on the
campaign.

MR. GOWDY: George Papadopoulos?

MR. TRUMP: | had to Google search "George Papadopoulos" when |
heard about the news about him 3 weeks ago. That doesn't mean, for the record,
that | hadn't met them on a campaign floor somewhere, but | had no idea who
either of those were.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. So if | understand your testimony correctly, there
is no evidence, regardless of the source and regardless of whether or not you
believe it, of conspiracy, collusion, coordination between your father, the official
campaign, or even unofficial hangers-on, to hack Podesta's email, the DNC server,
or disseminate the material acquired therefrom?

MR. TRUMP: To the best of my knowledge, that is 100 percent accurate.

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MR. FUTERFAS: I'm sorry. What was the question?

MR. SCHIFF: Was there any followup from the meeting of any kind?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss the meeting with Corey Lewandowski?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | did.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss the meeting with Michael Flynn?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss the meeting with anyone else involved in the
campaign?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | discussed it with anyone after the meeting, so
no.

MR. SCHIFF: | mentioned before that Mr. Papadopoulos has acknowledged
that he was informed by the Russians through intermediaries that they were in
possession of stolen Clinton emails prior to your Trump Tower meeting. Was it
ever communicated to you by anyone from the campaign or anyone outside the
campaign that the Russians were in possession of stolen Clinton emails?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Your father gave a speech, a campaign speech on the
evening of June 7. This would have been 4 days after you got the Goldstone email
and after the exchange of calls with Emin, whether they were answered or
otherwise.

In that speech, your father said, "I'm going to give a major speech on
probably Monday of next week, and we're going to be discussing all of the things
that have taken place with the Clintons. | think you're going to find it very

informative and very, very interesting."

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MR. TRUMP: No, | pretty much do my own social.
MR. SWALWELL: On October 10th, 2016, your father, candidate Trump,

stated at a rally in Pennsylvania, that he loved WikiLeaks. Do you remember

that?

MR. TRUMP: | remember reading about it after the fact. | don't know if |
was there.

MR. SWALWELL: Prior to that speech, did you talk to him at all about
WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he ever tell you after the speech why he said he
loved WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SWALWELL: On October 12th, 2016, at 8:31 a.m., WikiLeaks --

MR. TRUMP: | am sorry, what was the date again?

MR. SWALWELL: October 12th. October 12th, 8:31 a.m., WikiLeaks
alerts you to the release of -- you want to catch up?

MR. TRUMP: Yes. Okay. | am good.

MR. SWALWELL: October 12, 8:31 a.m., WikiLeaks alerts you to their
release of Podesta emails part four, and sends you this longer message, "Hey
Donald, great to see you and your dad talking about our publications. Strongly
suggest your dad tweets this link if he mentions us wisearch.tk. 1!.e. you guys can
get all your followers digging through the content. There is many great stories
there the press are missing and we're sure some of your followers will find them.

MR. TRUMP: Uh-huh.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you see that direct message from WikiLeaks?

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MR. TRUMP: | have read that since in preparation for this. Obviously, |
could not have heard it at the time that | received this because it was, you know --

MR. SWALWELL: Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. | really don't know that | have an opinion on it.

MR. SWALWELL: You at least agree that he was labeling them as a
nonhostile intelligence service.

MR. FUTERFAS: In April of 2017?

MR. SWALWELL: You agree in April of 2017 he labeled them as a
nonhostile --

MR. TRUMP: | agree that he labeled them that, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Allright. Now, going back to your interaction with
WikiLeaks, you sent around an email on September 21st about the login
information they had shared, and you stated the only email response back was
from Brad Parscale. Did you interact with anyone else on that email chain in a
non-email form, whether in-person conversation or by phone?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: And that's something you would recall if it had
occurred?

MR. TRUMP: | may have, meaning | may recall it, but | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you discuss this WikiLeaks approach with anyone
who was not on the email chain?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone express to you any concerns that the
approach to you was from WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

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MR. TRUMP: Yeah.

MR. SCHIFF: Have those been produced to this committee?

MR. FUTERFAS: | believe they have, but we could check.

MR. SCHIFF: If you would check to be sure.

MR. FUTERFAS: We will do that.

MR. TRUMP: Ofcourse.

MR. SCHIFF: We received, | think, just within the last 24 hours additional
300 pages of discovery. Why was that provided at this late date?

MR. FUTERFAS: Are you asking me or asking the witness?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm asking anyone who can answer the question.

MR. FUTERFAS: We have been responding to numbers of committees.
We have been continuing to collect information. And in preparation for this we did
additional searches and -- to make sure that your committee had whatever else
was out there, and we kind of redoubled our efforts to make sure that this
committee had whatever it needed and that we were fully responsive.

MR. CONAWAY: If you could use the microphone. She's having a hard
time recording.

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm sorry. We were -- we've obviously been responding
to various committees, different requests from various committees. And in
preparation for this interview, we redoubled our efforts. We went back. We ran
additional searches to make sure this committee had everything that it needed.

And that's -- and those additional searches revealed or at least uncovered
those additional documents and we wanted to make sure that you all had them.

So it was really, getting preparation for this, we kind of redoubled our efforts

to make sure you had everything.

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MR. TRUMP: Sure. Yes, | have it.

MR. SWALWELL: And you responded, "Already did that early today.”
When you said already did that earlier today, are you talking about retweeting?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, | am.

MR. SWALWELL: And you had in fact retweeted that story about
TruePundit.com. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And when you said already did that earlier today, did
you mean to say that you had done it because you saw the WikiLeaks DM, or that
you had done it independently?

MR. TRUMP: No, that | had done it independently. Anything, again, that
they had sent me they had made public first, and so | saw it before | ever got a DM
from them and said, Hey, this is interesting, | am going to retweet it.

MR. SWALWELL: You went on to say in that October 3rd response, it's
amazing what she can get away with. Who is "she"?

MR. TRUMP: | presume if they are talking about Hillary Clinton, | am
probably responding about that.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. What did you mean by it's amazing what she
can get away with?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | think if my father should say something like we
should just drown Assange, | think that would be a big deal in the press, and this
wasn't getting that much pickup other than through a smaller website, like a
TruePundit.

MR. SWALWELL: And you also, from the reading of this, it seems

believed that she had gotten away with other statements or offenses besides just

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purpose -- ostensible purpose of the meeting as you did, which was to provide
derogatory information about Clinton.

MR. TRUMP: To my understanding, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, you said that there was nothing there that was all that
useful; is that right?

MR. TRUMP: You know, again, | don't know that it was anything that was
all that relevant, correct. It didn't make all that such sense to me.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you said, when you responded to my colleague's
questions, that it wasn't that useful. If you had known this was the derogatory
information that she had on Secretary Clinton, would you have taken the meeting to
begin with?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you said it was essentially a bait-and-switch and a
waste of time, did you not?

MR. TRUMP: | did.

MR. SCHIFF: Does that indicate that if you knew that in advance, you
would have not taken the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: If! would have known that, | perhaps would have heard them
out, but | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: But it's fair to say that you were hoping for something more
useful than what you got?

MR. TRUMP: That's fair.

MR. SCHIFF: And is it fair to say you wouldn't have invited the campaign
chairman to the meeting if all you knew you were going to get was what they

provided in terms of derogatory information?

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Additionally, there's a green button on the microphone. If everyone
present could just make sure to press that when speaking so the reporters can
hear you clearly.

You are entitled to have counsel present for this interview, though you are
not required to do so. _| see you have counsel present and would ask that your
attorneys make an appearance for the record at this time.

MR. FUTERFAS: Good morning. Thank you for inviting us to this
committee. My name is Alan Futerfas, counsel for Mr. Trump, Jr.

MR. GARTEN: Alan Garten, general counsel for the Trump administration.

MS. LYNCH: Karina Lynch, Williams & Jensen, counsel for Donald Trump,
Jr.

HT hank you.

To ensure confidentiality, we ask that you do not discuss the interview with
anyone other than your attorneys.

Consistent with the committee's rules of procedures, you and your counsel,
if you wish, will have a reasonable opportunity to inspect the transcript of this
interview in order to determine whether your answers were correctly transcribed.
The transcript will remain in the committee's custody. The committee also
reserves the right to request your return for additional questions should the need
arise.

The process for the interview is as follows. The minority will be given
45 minutes to ask questions, then the majority will be given 45 minutes to ask
questions. Immediately thereafter, we can take a brief break if you'd like, after
which, the minority will be given 15 minutes to ask questions and the majority will

be given 15 minutes to ask questions. We will then proceed in subsequent

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MR. TRUMP: Either my father or counsel, | don't recall.

MR. FUTERFAS: It was announced. It was clear there was counsel in
the room.

MR. SCHIFF: Was the call on a speaker phone?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, it was.

MR. SCHIFF: And did the parties who were present identify themselves at
the beginning of the call?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: And who was identified as being present?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know which lawyer was there on behalf of your
father or were there multiple lawyers?

MR. TRUMP: | believe there were multiple, but | don't remember.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether your father's lawyer was his personal
lawyer or his White House lawyer?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall the names of anyone of your father's counsel
that were on the phone?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall whether there were others in the room in
addition to your father and his counsel on your father's end of the conversation?

MR. TRUMP: | am sorry, repeat the question please?

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether there were others present with your
father not including your father and his lawyers?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

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[4:52 p.m.]

MR. CONAWAY: Ms. Speier.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. | just want to get clarification on two things, and then
| have one other set of questions.

Does The Trump Organization allow foreign governments, foreign officials,
foreign government-owned entities to buy property using shell companies?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that we have a specific policy on the matter.

MS. SPEIER: So in order to do the due diligence necessary under the
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, how do you go about doing it?

MR. TRUMP: I don't know. | don't know that selling —-

MR. FUTERFAS: | think that's a legal --

MR. TRUMP: | guess you'd have to refer to legal department.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yeah, that's a legal question.

MS. SPEIER: So are you familiar with the Taj Mahal project, Trump Taj
Mahal?

MR. TRUMP: | am vaguely, but it was a public casino company, so |
wasn't involved in it at all.

MS. SPEIER: Well, the Federal agency called FinCEN imposed a
$10 million civil penalty that was levied in 2015, but it covered a period back to
2003, for not maintaining an effective anti-money laundering program.

MR. TRUMP: | wasn't involved. | don't know anything about it.

MS. SPEIER: Do you have strong protections in place to guard against
doing business with entities that are trying to launder money?

MR. TRUMP: You'd have to speak to the legal department. But, again,

the Trump Taj Mahal, in my recent memory, was a public company that was

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know who Paul Erickson is?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know who Rick Dearborn is?

MR. TRUMP: | do.

MR. SWALWELL: Who is Rick Dearborn?

MR. TRUMP: He was Jeff Sessions’ chief of staff, and he was involved
with our campaign, primarily on the transition team.

MR. SWALWELL: The subject of that email is "Kremlin connection." Is
that correct?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it is. Can | read it?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes. And counsel, if you could also read the Bates
stamp for us just for the record.

MR. FUTERFAS: | don't see a Bates stamp on my copy.

HE, hose are actually not Bates stamped.

MR. SWALWELL: Can | enter that as Exhibit 3?

MR. CONAWAY: Without objection.

[Trump Exhibit No. 3
Was marked for identification.]

MR. TRUMP: Okay.

MR. SWALWELL: Prior to this moment, had you seen that email before?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: The email says in part, "Happenstance and sometimes
the international reach of the NRA placed me in a position a couple years ago to
slowly begin cultivating a back channel to President Putin's Kremlin. Russia is

quietly but actively seeking a dialogue with the U.S. that isn't forthcoming under

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November 8, 2016. They were originally filed between 1996 and 2007. Were
you involved at all in obtaining Trump Organization trademarks in Russia?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you familiar with the efforts between '96 and 2007
to obtain trademarks in Russia?

MR. TRUMP: | am familiar with generally speaking we have obtained
trademarks in countries all over the world in for our brand, but not particularly
Russia.

MR. SWALWELL: So your testimony is that you were not familiar with any
efforts to obtain any trademarks in Russia?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Something you had never heard of?

MR. TRUMP: Not specifically to Russia, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you notified on November 8 or around November
8 that the trademarks were finalized?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. FUTERFAS: If! could have a moment. Thank you.

MR. SWALWELL: During the campaign did you ever provide the Trump
campaign with any information about Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: Did I?

MR. SWALWELL: Yeah.

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. SWALWELL: During the campaign, did you ever provide the Russian
Government, or an agent of the Russian Government, with any information related

to Hillary Clinton or any other political candidate or party?

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decision to publish the emails. Did you have any prior discussion with your father
after the meeting and prior to the discussion about the publication of your emails?

MR. TRUMP: About the publication. No, not that | remember.

MR. SCHIFF: So the first conversation you had with your father after June 9
of last year and prior to the date, this year when you published the emails, during
that period, you had no discussion with your father about the meeting or the emails
that led up to it?

MR. TRUMP: Could you just say the question again, because | want to
make sure. It's sort of a long timeframe.

MR. SCHIFF: You stated that -- do we have the date that Mr. Trump
published the emails. Do you recall the date in which you published the emails?

MR. FUTERFAS: | believe it's Monday, July 11, 2017.

MR. SCHIFF: Between June 9 of 2016 and July 11.

MR. FUTERFAS: Or 10th.

MR. SCHIFF: 10th or 11th of 2017.

MR. FUTERFAS: 10.

MR. SCHIFF: Between those two dates, did you have any discussion with
your father, in person, by phone, or written communication with your father, about
the meeting in Trump Tower?

MR. TRUMP: No, I don't believe | did.

MR. SCHIFF: Once you did discuss the emails with your father, what took
place -- I'm not going to ask you about what you asked your attorney or what your
attorney told you, but what did you tell your father about the emails?

MR. FUTERFAS: That's a -- we're going to assert privilege there, please.

MR. SCHIFF: There's no privilege between Mr. Trump, Jr. and his father.

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MR. SCHIFF: So after Mr. Goldstone emails you about the sensitivity of
the information and suggests that you speak directly with Emin, there are calls
from Emin, but you can't recall whether you actually spoke with him?

MR. TRUMP: So we may have played phone tag, I'm saying, but it
appears that we tried to make contact. | just don't recall if we did or not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you speak with him separate and apart from the calls
that are listed on this register? In other words, did you have a call on a different
line that may not show up on this phone record?

MR. TRUMP: | would find that hard to believe, but | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Does that mean that the entirety of the information that you
had prior to the meeting about the substance of the damaging information they
would offer was contained in the initial emails?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | don't recall speaking to Emin, so possibly, but |
don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: After these phone records indicate they were calls,

Mr. Goldstone emailed that Emin asked him to schedule a meeting that he
believed you were aware of, with you and the Russian Government attorney who
was flying over from Moscow for this Thursday. Does that indicate to you that you
indeed did have a conversation with Emin?

MR. TRUMP: It doesn't. It perhaps indicates that maybe we exchanged
voicemails. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: So that Emin may have left you a voicemail about the nature
of the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. It doesn't -- he may have believed we spoke.

He may have realized that we tried to connect. | just don't remember. This

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the DNC was, you know, the thing | mentioned about, you know, perhaps
proper -- improper campaign contributions, and/or DNC contributions by these
people who were, you know, avoiding taxation in either or both countries.

MR. SCHIFF: Was there any mention of John Podesta?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Any mention specifically of Hillary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: My recollection is that the mentions of Hillary Clinton were as
it pertains to, you know, the people who were doing this, being donors of hers.

MR. SCHIFF: And how about the Clinton Foundation. Was there any
discussion of the Clinton Foundation?

MR. TRUMP: Perhaps, but not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: And why do you say "perhaps"?

MR. TRUMP: There may have been. | may have asked if they were talking
about donations from any of these things. | don't know. | read about that
yesterday, but | don't recall it.

MR. SCHIFF: But you may have asked Ms. Veselnitskaya about whether
she had any dirt on the Clintons, vis-a-vis, the Clinton Foundation?

MR. TRUMP: | may have asked if that's what she was talking about as it
related to donations, but! don't know. | don't know specifically, and | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever have a conversation -- well, was there any
discussion in the meeting of any Hillary Clinton emails?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever have a conversation with anyone, either in the
context of this meeting or otherwise, about attempts to secure the Clinton 33,000

deleted emails?

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President Trump, may have had a different assessment of WikiLeaks, and that
assessment was made public on October 7, 2016, and then again with Director
Pompeo's comment in April. But | just want to focus my questions on what your
knowledge and thinking was at the time. So the first, as we have discussed, the
first exchange you have with WikiLeaks in your direct messages is they send you
a direct message on September 20th, and then you send them a response on
September 21st. Is that correct?

A __ That's correct.

Q_ And at the time that you had this interaction with them, did you, based
on what you knew, have any knowledge or belief that Wikileaks was acting on
behalf of the Russian Government or the Russian intelligence services?

A No.

Q_ And at this time on September 20 and 21, did you have any
knowledge or belief that the source of the materials that WikiLeaks was publicly
exposing was the Russian Government or Russian intelligence services?

A No.

Q_ Same questions for the second exchange you had with them on
October 3, which is on October 3 did you have any knowledge or belief that
WikiLeaks was acting on behalf of the Russian Government intelligence services?

A __ I|did not.

Q__ And on October 3 did you have any knowledge or belief that the
source of the material WikiLeaks was publicly releasing was the Russian
Government or Russian intelligence services?

A {did not.

Q_ And | believe that your October 3 response is the -- the October 3,

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campaign platform, and we moved on.

MR. SCHIFF: And what would you have said to try to steer her back to the
purpose of the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | may have asked another question or so, but again, | don't
recall doing that, so | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ask her whether she had anything else on Secretary
Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: I may have. | have no recollection of it, though.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ask her where she got the information that she
provided you?

MR. TRUMP: She didn't really provide me any information. It was sort of,
you know, speak theoretical stuff that didn't make much sense to me, so | don't
know that did, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ask her who was providing this information to the
campaign, who she was representing?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did she provide you with any documents during the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | remember, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did she present any documents to anyone else during the
meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I saw.

MR. CONAWAY: Time, sir.

MR. GOWDY: Very quickly, Mr. Trump. Mr. Rooney may have gone
through this. He usually does, but if he did not, | just want to make sure you

understand the four kind of the pillars of our investigation: What did Russia do with

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be willing to listen.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, he wasn't offering you a beer though. He was
offering you damaging information on your political opponent, right?

MR. TRUMP: As | said, I'd be willing to listen.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, it's more than you were willing to listen. You would
welcome, indeed love that kind of assistance. Isn't that what you were
communicating?

MR. TRUMP: As | said, in a colloquial manner, that's what | would respond
if - to people asking me numerous things throughout the day.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone indicated this was particularly sensitive
information. Why didn't you ask him what information it was in the email?

MR. TRUMP: Because | wasn't sure what to make of it.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you also concerned that this would be put in writing?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: The email describes this as part of Russia and its
government's support for your father's campaign. To your understanding, what
was meant by part of Russia's support?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you aware of other ways in which Russia was
supporting your father's campaign?

MR. TRUMP: I'm not.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone's email also says that he can send -- "also
send this information to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to
send it to you first."" Who is Rhona?

MR. TRUMP: My father's assistant.

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you said, you verified it or whatever.

Who is this guy? What is your impression of him as far as his legitimacy,
as far as what -- | guess my question is this. We're all politicians and we all have
campaigns and we all have people that offer to help. And there's levels of
seriousness, | guess, we would take certain people but also trying to be -- not
trying to be mean or disregard certain people for whatever reasons.

I'm just trying to get an idea of what your impression was of Mr. Goldstone
while this was all going on.

MR. TRUMP: Listen, he's a music promoter. He was in, | guess, a past
life Michael Jackson's manager. He was a tabloid journalist. So, you know, he's
sort of a sensational character PR person type of guy. | know him to, you know,
manage an Azerbaijan pop singer.

And he was always very cordial with us in whatever little dealings we had
had. And, you know, again, | didn't have a very strong relationship with him, but |
knew him to be a little bit of a character and a kind of flamboyant guy.

MR. ROONEY: One would wonder why you would give somebody like that
the time of day when it comes to, you know, trying to help your father get elected
President.

MR. TRUMP: You know, where | come from, not the world of politics but
the world of business, everything is about relationships. We had done business
with the Agalarovs, whether -- you know, for Miss Universe. We had looked at
potential real estate deals.

If he's, you know, representing them somewhat, I'm going to give him a little
bit of the time of day because, who knows, down the line, maybe they show up

with a real estate deal that's in a better location that we would want to do.

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MR. TRUMP: Reasonably. | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: What was your father's knowledge of Mr. Sater and Mr.
Cohen's effort to put a Trump Tower in Moscow in 2015?

MR. TRUMP: Idon'tknow. But for a license deal, my father would not
typically have gotten all that involved.

MR. SWALWELL: So you were, at that time in 2015, the executive vice
president?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And what was your father's role in The Trump
Organization in 2015?

MR. TRUMP: President.

MR. SWALWELL: And your father, in the fall of 2015, was also a
candidate for President of the United States in the Republican primary. Is that
right?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so, yes. Wait, wait. Yes, fall of 2015, yes, that's
correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And it's your testimony today that you never talked to
your father once about a potential Trump Tower in Moscow at all in 2015?

MR. TRUMP: | am aware that he signed an LOI for it. | don't recall having
specific conversations with him about it, because | wasn't really involved on the
deal side of the project.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Michael Cohen ever tell you whether he was in
contact with your father about a Trump Tower in Moscow in 2015?

MR. TRUMP: He may have. Not that | recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, this was at least the second effort to -- well, let me

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considered to be the 30,000 deleted Hillary Clinton emails?

MR. TRUMP: As it pertains to WikiLeaks, | imagine the campaign would
have wanted them out, but | don't know. | don't know that this was -- | don't think |
even thought about this as being part of it.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you believe that the dirt that the Russians might be
offering you, as represented by Mr. Goldstone, might be in the form of stolen Hillary
Clinton emails?

MR. TRUMP: | did not have any reason to believe anything at that point. |
had no knowledge of what it was going to be presented.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you read the information that George Papadopoulos
pled to?

MR. TRUMP: | read that he had pled to lying to the FBI.

MR. SCHIFF: Are you aware in the information that Mr. Papadopoulos
represented that as early as April, this would have been weeks before your June
meeting, that the campaign, via Mr. Papadopoulos, was informed by the Russians
that they had Clinton stolen emails?

MR. TRUMP: | was not aware of that at the time, no. I've read that since.

MR. FUTERFAS: Just for clarification. Congressman Schiff, | think you
were referring to something called "an information," and | don't know if Mr. Trump,
dr. is -- understands that you're referring to a particular type of charging instrument.
| just want to -- to the extent you might want to make that clear. I'm not sure if he
understands that.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, let me ask this again then.

As a part of Mr. Papadopoulos' plea, he acknowledged that the Russians,

through intermediaries, made him aware, as a member of the campaign, as early as

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MR. TRUMP: | had mentioned it to them, if they could come by the
meeting when that was eventually set up. | don't know if | spoke to them. | don't
believe | spoke to them before that.

MR. SCHIFF: So you forward them an email, but you never discussed
what the meeting would be about?

MR. TRUMP: Idon'tknow. Perhaps the email spoke for itself, but | don't
recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall having a conversation with Mr. Manafort that
the Agalarovs were offering you information from the Russian Government that
was derogatory about Secretary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall having a conversation with him about it, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall discussing the matter with Mr. Kushner?

MR. TRUMP: | don't. .

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall discussing the matter with anyone else?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: And prior to the meeting, did you have any conversation
with your father about the Agalarovs' effort or offer to help with information about
Secretary Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Why wouldn't you share this with your father?

MR. TRUMP: Because, understanding Rob Goldstone, this isn't something
| would bring to my father till | actually knew what it was. He was very busy, and
he's not the kind of guy you bring something potentially to. You vet it out and you
see what's there and then you would bring him real information.

So this to me was, you know, an email from a flamboyant music promoter.

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MR. TRUMP: No. I don't recall any.

MR. SWALWELL: Where was your father on October 12th in the morning?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you observed your father tweeting before?

MR. TRUMP: Yeah.

MR. SWALWELL: Meaning you have seen the phone in his hand, the
tweets being written; and it being sent?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you observe this during the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever observe a pattern or practice as to how
tweets would be composed, reviewed, and then sent, or was there no pattern or
practice?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know if there was a pattern. Sometimes he would
dictate it to someone, sometimes he would do it himself. | don't know that there
was a pattern.

MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, who else had access to your
father's Twitter account throughout the campaign.

MR. TRUMP: | imagine Dan Scavino would have had it as head of the
social media operation.

MR. SWALWELL: Anyone else that you know of as having access?

MR. TRUMP: No, not during the campaign.

MR. SWALWELL: At 9:23 a.m. you retweeted on October 12th another
WikiLeaks story, "RT at WikiLeaks: Hillary Clinton reads from script during

interview. Hashtag Podesta emails."

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MR. TRUMP: | believe it was raised by The New York Times.

MR. SCHIFF: And did The New York Times provide you with emails and
ask you about them, or how did the emails again come to your attention?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall if it was for that or if it was through, you know,
production to either one of the committees or special counsel that we first saw them.

MR. SCHIFF: So you may have seen emails again prior to being contacted
by The New York Times?

MR. TRUMP: | may have. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: And then going to the communication with Hope Hicks, | think
you said you weren't sure who had contacted whom first, or did | misunderstand?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall, correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And what was Hope Hicks’ suggestion vis-a-vis the emails?

MR. TRUMP: | believe we had presented multiple statements, a longer-form
version and a shorter-form version. And | believe she preferred, in speaking with
people, whoever they were, to go with a shorter-form version of the statements that
we had started preparing with counsel.

| We're past time, sir.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm sorry.

MR. ROONEY: Do you want to take a break?

MR. TRUMP: I'm fine.

MR. CONAWAY: Do you have anything?

Another 15, Adam.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

When you say longer-form or shorter-form version, are you talking about a

version that would include all of the emails or some of the emails, or are you talking

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MR. GOWDY: It's only when it's other information. So if you are
struggling to find consistency, or an absence of relativism in some of the questions
that you are getting, that might help you understand it.

MR. TRUMP: That's fair. Thank you.

MR. GOWDY: That's all | have.

MR. CONAWAY: Fifteen.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Trump, | would only say
there have been any number of iterations of what happened at the June 9
meeting, beginning with your initial statement, subsequent statements, and your
testimony today. That's why we are asking detailed questions about this. In
terms of length of our meeting today, | would only point out that the hearing with
my colleague and Secretary Clinton lasted 11 hours. So we are moving at
breakneck speed compared to that hearing. | want to --

MR. TRUMP: Which hearing was that?

MR. SCHIFF: That was the one with Hillary Clinton.

MR. TRUMP: About this topic?

MR. SCHIFF: No, about Benghazi.

MR. TRUMP: | would argue that her, as Secretary of State, where
Americans died is perhaps bigger than a 20-minute nonmeeting with the Russians,
but that's just me.

MR. SCHIFF: And what would you say about the significance of a foreign
adversary intervening in our Presidential election? Would you consider that
insignificant?

MR. TRUMP: | don't consider that insignificant, but | have no knowledge of

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research. The good news for the committee is we've had an opportunity to
interview some people who are experts in opposition research. And one thing |
learned is that they actually travel to various sites and conduct research on public
records and public information, and every now and again, they use sources and
subsources that are anonymous. That's something the committee has learned
over the course of the past 10 months.

So | see official documents, and | see reference to a presidential candidate
who's held arguably three, but for sure, two, public positions, and I'm just
wondering if that could have been information that would have been available
otherwise?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine that's at least one component of things that were
going through my mind because | didn't know what to expect. _| was happy to
listen. It could have very well been public information over there.

MR. GOWDY: Speaking of listening, | don't know whether this is true or
not, but had you heard that -- well, first of all, have you heard of someone named
Glenn Simpson?

MR. TRUMP: | have, since in preparation for this, but | had not at the time,
no.

MR. GOWDY: Had you also heard that Glenn Simpson was part of a
group called "Fusion GPS"?

MR. TRUMP: I've heard that since in preparation for this, yes.

MR. GOWDY: Had you heard that Fusion GPS was commissioned,
retained to do opposition research on your father?

MR. TRUMP: | have since heard that, yes.

MR. GOWDY: Have you heard that the Russian lawyer that my friend from

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MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever ask your father what he meant by the very

informative and very, very interesting information on Clinton?
, MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Rob Goldstone's June 3 email to you said that Emin Agalarov
had "asked me to contact you with something very interesting." Was this the very
interesting information that your father was referring to?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: So you have no idea whether it was ever communicated to
your father that the Russian Government, via Aras Agalarov, was offering very
interesting information on Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: | know that I don't recall ever giving it to him. | don't recall
bringing it to anyone else. So | can't imagine it was. And given the outcome of
the meeting, there was nothing interesting.

MR. SCHIFF: So your best estimate would be that it was a coincidence that
your father was promising very interesting information on Clinton at a time when
Rob Goldstone was promising from Aras Agalarov very interesting information on
Hillary Clinton?

MR. FUTERFAS: The objection at this time is to this question has been
asked and answered about five times. Calls for speculation. But notwithstanding
that, I'll certainly allow my client to answer.

MR. TRUMP: Yeah. Listen, | know of a lot of things that were coming
around at that time. | know they were talking about the book "Clinton Cash." |
know they were talking about all these, you know, Clinton conspiracies. People
were bringing up more and new things, so it could have been any one of those

things. | wasn't involved. Idon'tknow. But there was certainly no shortage of

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MR. FUTERFAS: Do you mind rephrasing the question? | don't
understand the question.

MR. SCHIFF: Yes. Did you or your father, to your knowledge, speak with
communications staff within the White House or The Trump Organization or
elsewhere, in which you discussed the discussion you had with your father with
respect to the email exchange?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you speak with anyone else about that conversation,
whether they were with communications staff or not?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So this phone conversation you had, you didn't discuss with
any other members of your family?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Or anyone outside your family?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, apart from counsel, obviously.

MR. SCHIFF: To your knowledge, did your father speak publicly about
whether he had any discussions with you about releasing the email exchange or
the statement that would accompany it?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: To your knowledge did your father speak privately with
anyone about your discussions about the email exchange?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Apart from this conversation, did your father ever express
any anger over your meeting at Trump Tower or how you handled it?

MR. TRUMP: No. Not that | remember.

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MR. TRUMP: I may have. | don't recall.

MR. CASTRO: Usually at these events -- all of us have been part of
them -- they'll give you a heads-up about who's supposed to attend. They don't
want to just throw you to the wolves, | don't know who I'm talking to.

MR. TRUMP: They may have. | just don't remember.

MR. CASTRO: Who would have provided that to you?

MR. TRUMP: Presumably Jan or Fabien. | don't know.

MR. CASTRO: Who traveled with you to Paris?

MR. TRUMP: | went by myself.

MR. CASTRO: In the contract, it says that they were willing to pay for two
people to go.

MR. TRUMP: | went by myself.

MR. CASTRO: No assistant? Nobody with you?

MR. TRUMP: Don't need an assistant for a 24-hour turnaround.

. MR. CASTRO: All right.

Let me ask you about WikiLeaks. And know you went over most of this
with Congressman Swalwell, so I'm not going to retread the whole thing. But let
me take you to -- let me see -- it's the document that is Bates stamped
TrumpOrg_13_00001.

MR. TRUMP: | don't have that one.

MR. CASTRO: Okay. Let me ask you about that document.

MR. FUTERFAS: If you could give us 1 minute just to review.

MR. CASTRO: Sure.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. TRUMP: Okay.

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influence by Russia to any of the loans or any of the financial dealings that he's
aware of. | mean, | think that's the only question, because beyond that, these are
facts that, you know, | think are just unknown to us.

MS. SPEIER: Well, you know, Deutsche Bank is being fined now by the
New York State Department of Financial Services to the tune of about $475 million
and another 163 million pounds by the London Financial Conduct Authority due to
money laundering schemes.

So we're trying to see to what extent Donald Trump, Sr., who had poor
credit during this time, was countersuing Deutsche Bank, and then was successful
in getting two mortgages against Trump National Doral Resort in Miami, as well as
a $170 million loan to finish his hotel in Washington in The Old Post Office.

MR. TRUMP: First of all --

MR. FUTERFAS: No, before you answer, could we caucus on this, if you
don't mind, Madam Congresswoman?

MS. SPEIER: Sure.

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.

_[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: | think -- thank you, Madam Congresswoman. | think
what we would be willing to do to stay within the pertinency boundaries, | guess, is
answer questions on whether he has any knowledge of relationship or connection
between Deutsche Bank and Russia or Russian influence with respect to loans
that he's aware of with Deutsche Bank. But | think beyond that, we're -- | think
we'd be running pretty far afield on the pertinency questions.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. So let me ask it this way. Are you aware of any

Russian financial support in securing or playing any role in Deutsche Bank loans

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MR. TRUMP: | don't know what he felt. You'd have to ask him.

MR. SCHIFF: But he did apologize because the meeting wasn't as it was
represented?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And as near as you can recall, what did Ms. Veselnitskaya
tell you about on the subject of Clinton and the derogatory information?

MR. TRUMP: Again, it was a -- she was talking about some Clinton donors.
Again, | don't know if those are campaign donors as well as DNC donors that were
apparently doing business in Russia of some sort and had managed to figure out a
way to perhaps unlawfully avoid paying taxes in either the U.S. or Russia, but again,
through translation, it just -- not a lot of it made sense to me, and so | didn't really
know what we were -- they were listening about.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you ask her for more details about this information?

MR. TRUMP: I don't recall. | imagine | would have said, | don't
understand, or can you please clarify, is there something here that, you know,
means more than this, but | don't really remember. It became apparent to me
pretty quickly that this was a nothing, and that's when she translated -- sort of
transitioned over to speaking about Russian adoption.

He rinute.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you try to steer her back to the discussion about what
information they could offer on Clinton?

MR. TRUMP: Not that! recall. Again, | may have briefly, but it became
pretty apparent to me that that wasn't what this was about. We listened for a few
minutes about the Magnitsky stuff and Russian adoption, made it clear that we were

private citizens, this isn't something that we knew anything about, it wasn't a

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smoke that they could have been talking about.

MR. SCHIFF: Before July 2017, when the news broke about this meeting,
did you discuss the meeting with your sister lvanka?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall speaking to her about it.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever discussed this meeting with your sister?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss it with your brother Eric?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, but, again, | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss it with Kellyanne Conway?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss it with Jeff Sessions?

MR. TRUMP: | haven't spoken to Jeff Sessions since the election probably,
so | doubt it, but | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss it with Steve Bannon?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever discussed this or your contacts with WikiLeaks
with Roger Stone?

MR. TRUMP: I don't believe so, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Rick Gates?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Carter Page?

MR. TRUMP: I've never met Carter Page, so | doubt it.

MR. SCHIFF: And | think you've already said you didn't discuss this with
Michael Flynn. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | did.

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subject line, "dr jr," which | take it was referring to you.

MR. TRUMP: DR, Jr.?

MR. SCHIFF: DR.

MR. TRUMP: DT?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, it says "dr jr."

MR. TRUMP: Can | see it?

MR. SCHIFF: Oh, I'm sorry, it does say “dt," "dt jr." Attached to the email
is the email you released publicly about the June 9 meeting.

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: The body of the email says, "Why did he release this email
admitting to collusion?" This is Bate stamped 4 and 5.

Do you know why either of the Kaveladzes, the one who was present in the
meeting i. would be under the impression that you were colluding?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you.

Mr. Trump, you stated a couple of times today -- a number of times
today -- that you do not recall particular details with respect to the June 9 meeting,
but you are quite certain that you did not tell your father, prior to the meeting that it
occurred. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that's correct, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And just to also clarify, you are certain that you did not
tell your father between the June 9 meeting and up until the point that the statement
was made in July anything about the meeting. | just want to make sure we're

certain about that.

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condominium, are there any restrictions on whom you can sell that to? | mean,
do you monitor that?

MR. TRUMP: That would really be up to them, up to the seller. In most
cases, you know, we wouldn't even be involved in the sales process. They would
have to vet that accordingly. And, you know, they would do with that as they see
fit. I'm not aware of really any restrictions to that, no.

MR. FUTERFAS: My understanding is, not that I'm a real estate lawyer in
New York, but if you buy a condominium, you own it fee simple. So you own your
home. So it's just like if you have a home in a suburban place, no one is going to
tell you who you can sell it to or not to.

MR. TRUMP: Well, and that was part of my point that | was making earlier,
which is that Trump Tower, it was built in 1982. The person who bought from my
father when he was sponsor-slash-developer at the time, once he owns it, he
owns it.

So that person can sell to whoever he wants, even if he sells to a Russian.
We have no ability to prevent that sale. The building could be 100 percent

_ Russian. It doesn't mean we have any relationship to those people at all. They
could be buying from the first purchaser or they could be buying from the 12th
purchaser over a 32-, 33-year-old building.

MR. KING: So it's not your responsibility in your course of business to be
monitoring who's living in each unit in your condominiums --

MR. TRUMP: We wouldn't even be allowed to by law. | mean, if
someone owns something fee simple, we can't tell them who -- we can't restrict
them from selling their property to someone else.

MR. KING: Fee simple. | feel like I'm back in law school.

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me. :

MR. SWALWELL: You produced to the committee direct messages with
WikiLeaks' official Twitter account spanning from September 20, 2016, through
July 11, 2017.

And Mr. Chair, | would like to submit those Twitter direct messages for the
record as | believe would be exhibit 1. They are Bate stamped DJTJRO1265-74.

MR. CONAWAY: Without objection.

[Trump Exhibit No. 1
Was marked for identification.]

MR. SWALWELL: On September 20, 2016, Mr. Trump, WikiLeaks sent
you a direct message. Do you remember that?

MR. TRUMP: On September 20. Could | see them, please?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MR. TRUMP: Thank you.

MR. SWALWELL: That's correct, that September 20, 2016, WikiLeaks
sent you a direct message?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And it's your testimony to the committee today that your
production of your communications with WikiLeaks is a complete record of any
communications you had with WikiLeaks ever. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, that's correct.

MR. SWALWELL: So September 20, 2016, was the first direct message
that WikiLeaks had sent to you?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Did they -- had they, prior to September 2016, ever

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MR. TRUMP: Campaign procedures and what we could or couldn't do.
So | would have brought him in on any meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: Was there a question in your mind about whether you could
or could not accept help from the Russian Government?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that | thought about it.

MR. SCHIFF: Did it have to rise to a certain level of seriousness for you to
ask the campaign manager to attend a meeting on the eve of a disputed
convention?

MR. TRUMP: Probably not. | think if they were in town, we would have
had meetings about a lot of little things that pop up along the way in a campaign.
So | think it would be very commonplace to say, "Hey, if you're around, come on
in."

MR. SCHIFF: Well, if you thought Mr. Goldstone was so frivolous and
would overstate matters, why would you invite the campaign manager to come?

MR. TRUMP: Because | didn't know what Mr. Goldstone had. | was
willing to listen to it, and | thought they should maybe be involved.

MR. SCHIFF: Why didn't you insist on finding out from Emin or someone
else just what he was offering before inviting the campaign manager?

MR. TRUMP: Idon'tknow. Presumably because | was busy with
everything else, and, you know, | only responded to their outreach to me.

MR. SCHIFF: Is it possible that you did have a conversation with Emin
about the specifics of what was being offered?

MR. TRUMP: It is possible that we spoke. | imagine, given the length of
the phone calls, it would've been very hard to get much done in, you know, a

2-minute call, 3-minute call, and a 2-minute call that appears to be phone tag.

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recall having a specific conversation with Mr. Cohen about that.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know Mr. Sater to be a Russian national? Did
you know that about his background?

MR. TRUMP: No, | thought he was American.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know that he had any ties to Russia?

MR. TRUMP: | knew that he had ties to Russia, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: When | say a Russian national, | mean somebody who
was born in Russia, a Russian American.

MR. TRUMP: | may have known that at some time. | don't know that
now. | thought he was American.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know in 2015, when Mr. Cohen was negotiating
a Trump Tower and working with Mr. Sater, that Mr. Sater had a prior criminal
history?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, | had read that.

MR. SWALWELL: You read that prior to Mr. Cohen working with Mr.
Sater?

MR. TRUMP: Prior to 2015, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: How long have you known Mr. Cohen?

MR. TRUMP: Twelve years, probably.

MR. SWALWELL: And you knew Mr. Cohen to be someone who was
friends with Mr. Sater, not just business associates, but also someone who grew
up with Mr. Sater?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that they grew up together. | know they were
acquaintances, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Long time acquaintances.

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things that were at times perhaps suspect to me in seeing how things were going,
but I don't ever recall having a conversation with my father about talking about a
rigged election as a strategy, so -- or anyone else on the campaign team, frankly.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. I'm going to move into a whole different area.

When did you first start working for your father at The Trump Organization?

MR. TRUMP: 2001.

MS. SPEIER: 2001. And what was your title then?

MR. TRUMP: | was some sort of associate, low level.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. And by 2015, you were the executive vice
president?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MS. SPEIER: And certainly since then, you and your brother have been
running The Trump Organization?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MS. SPEIER: As you look -- as we look at all of the engagement with
Russia, | mean, the then Trump in November of 1996 announced that he was
going to invest $250 million in Russia and put his name on two luxury residential
buildings. Again, in 2005, when you were working with your father, there was an
effort to try and do some project in Russia. Again in 2008. Again in 2013.
Again in 2015 and '16.

So you have had a concerted effort for a long period of time within The
Trump Organization to build projects in Russia, correct?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, and many other countries in the world that we also
don't have projects in.

MS. SPEIER: And is there a reason that you've come up with as to why

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MR. TRUMP: Probably.

MR. SCHIFF: And do you know who you were with on the road at the time
you received the email?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: What records would exist that would help you determine
where you would have been at the time?

MR. TRUMP: Perhaps my calendar would have where | would be.

MR. SCHIFF: | think we have your calendar, but | think much of your
calendar is blacked out. Do you have a copy of your calendar such that you could
refresh your recollection?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: When you received Mr. Goldstone's email, did you discuss it
with anyone that you were traveling with?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss that you received the email with anyone?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: June 3 was a Friday. Did you talk with anyone over the
weekend about the email?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Was this the first time that Mr. Goldstone reached out to you
about the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: No. He had sent sporadic congratulations along the way as
we won primaries or such.

MR. SCHIFF: Was this the first communication you received from

Mr. Goldstone where he indicated that the Russian Government wanted to provide

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MR. CASTRO: But my last question, then I'll turn it back over. What
about encrypted messaging apps, Signal, for example, and so forth, which of
those, if any, have you used during that period?

MR. TRUMP: I've used WhatsApp, | believe. Maybe -- | don't know if
FaceTime is considered one of those. But like | said, anything that I've had, any
phone like that, I've handed to counsel to be, you know, appropriately forensically
searched.

MR. CASTRO: |'ll turn it back and then I'll resume.

MR. CONAWAY: We don't have any questions.

MR. CASTRO: Okay. How about direct messaging through Twitter,
obviously? What about through Facebook?

MR. TRUMP: | believe we've looked at all of that.

MR. CASTRO: But I'm asking, which of these platforms have you used?

MR. TRUMP: Facebook, \ may have used, Twitter, and Instagram are
really the only social media platforms I've used. So those have all been checked.

MR. CASTRO: So in response to what the committee asked for, you
reviewed all of these platforms, your email addresses, your telephone numbers,
where you may have received texts, for example, or emails, your Instagram, your
FaceTime, your Facebook, your Twitter, everything?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, as far as I'm aware.

MR. CASTRO: Okay. Have you been interviewed or asked to submit
documents by Special Counsel Mueller?

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm going to not have him answer on pertinency ground.
| think what another committee or agency is doing is not pertinent to the factual

questions that are -- if it makes it easier for you, you could just assume that we've

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MR. SWALWELL: Between October 3 and October 9 you posted several
tweets promoting WikiLeaks and Guccifer 2.0 leaks of Clinton emails. And |
believe they are in the record. But are you familiar that on October 7, 2016, the
Intelligence Community assessed that Wikileaks and DCLeaks were working with
Russian intelligence services? Do you remember that analysis?

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember that.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with that analysis?

MR. TRUMP: | am not, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you agree that WikiLeaks and DCLeaks, as our
Intelligence Community has said, was working with Russian intelligence services?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: And your testimony to this committee today is that you,
at the time, had no knowledge that this assessment was made by our Intelligence
Community?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall knowing that, no.

MR. SWALWELL: But if you did have knowledge and you continued to
tetweet someone who was assessed to have been working with the Russian
intelligence agency, that's something you probably would remember, right?

MR. TRUMP: Probably.

MR. SWALWELL: So your testimony is that your retweeting of WikiLeaks
and the Guccifer 2.0 leaks was without the knowledge that they were assessed to
have been working with Russia's intelligence services?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that's correct, but | don't recall knowing otherwise.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you tell your father that WikiLeaks had asked you

on October 3, 2016, to retweet the TruePundit.com story?

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2016, response is the last direct message exchange or direct communication you
had with WikiLeaks. Is that correct?

A Correct. October 3.

Q__ And note here that they sent you a variety of messages thereafter to
which you did not respond. Is that correct?

A Correct.

Q__ And do you recall the reason, if there was a particular reason, why you
didn't respond at all after October 3?

A __ | don't recall a specific reason, but | know they started asking me for
things that | wasn't going to give them. So | didn't feel the need to respond to
those.

Q__ Then just one question regarding the email chain to set up the Trump
Tower meeting on June 9, 2016, which we have discussed extensively, or | guess
one issue. Now, as Mr. Gowdy noted earlier, neither campaign had a monopoly
on seeking derogatory information on their opponents from Russian sources, as
has been subsequently publicly revealed?

A __ | believe that's correct.

Q___ But the thing that kind of stuck out to me when | read this email chain,
so | don't want to focus on the incriminating Hillary and her dealings with Russia
that Mr. Gowdy asked about, | just want to focus on the fact that the information is,
quote, "part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump." So to the
best of your recollection, what, if anything, was your reaction to that particular
piece of the purported premise of the meeting?

A__ | don't know that | had a reaction. Again, | knew it was from Rob

Goldstone, and | wasn't aware of any support being offered from the Russian

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MR. SWALWELL: Shifting to the Trump Tower project that you referenced
with Emin, were you referring to a November 11, 2013, deal made with the Crocus
Group?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know what that deal is.

MR. SWALWELL: How about a letter of intent?

MR. TRUMP: What exactly is the question?

MR. SWALWELL: You referenced earlier that your familiarity with Emin
was that he and his father were a part of the early discussions after the Miss
Universe contest in Russia to have a Trump Tower in Moscow.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And Iam asking you, is the group that that was with not
actually the Agalarovs, but their group the Crocus Group?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that was Crocus, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you involved in that deal or the effort to make that
deal?

MR. TRUMP: | was involved in the effort to make that deal, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Who else was involved besides the Crocus Group and
The Trump Organization?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know of anyone. Maybe if they had an architecture
firm that may have been speaking with us at the time, but | don't remember any
other, you know --

MR. SWALWELL: Were there other potential investors?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | am aware of.

MR. SWALWELL: And the Crocus Group, as far as you knew at the time,

and today, was owned by Russian oligarch Aras Agalarov?

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MR. GOWDY: Did they support him in the primary?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, unless they can vote in Wisconsin.

MR. GOWDY: Did you see any manifestation of the support for your father
by the Russian Government?

MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. GOWDY: Your brother-in-law attended the meeting, and without
going directly into what he said -- well, let me just ask you: Did he stay for the
whole time?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so. | think he took a phone call partway
through.

MR. GOWDY: And left?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, | believe so.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. There are three pivot points, the way | look at it.
My colleagues on the other side may look at it differently, and perhaps I'm missing
something, but there are three pivot points that | want to ask you about
specifically. Number 1 is the hack of the DNC server.

MR. TRUMP: Yes, sir.

MR. GOWDY: Well, before | get to that, let me ask you this: Do you
believe your taking of this meeting was unlawful?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. GOWDY: Do you believe that had they actually had official
documents -- let me make sure | got the phrase right -- that would incriminate
Hillary and her dealings with Russia -- and again, | keep coming back to the fact
that she was a Secretary of the State and she was a United States senator, so

whatever dealings she had with Russia would have necessarily been in her official

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MR. TRUMP: A gentleman named Fabien Baussart. He's a, | guess,
Parisian businessman who also runs this think tank, | forget what the acronym
was, political think tank. They have had Kofi Anan speak. They have had
numerous U.S. politicians speak there, and they asked me to speak.

MR. CASTRO: Now, you're aware that the Center of Political and Foreign
Affairs Recently nominated Vladimir Putin for a Nobel peace prize?

MR. TRUMP: | am not.

MR. CASTRO: You're not aware of that?

MR. TRUMP: I'm not aware of that.

MR. CASTRO: And a key organizer of this event, Ronda Cassis (ph), did
you meet her?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, | did.

MR. CASTRO: She told reporters that she flew to Moscow after the event
and discussed details of your dinner with Mikhail Bogonov (ph), the deputy head of
Russia's Foreign Ministry. Did Fabien or did Ronda (ph) communicate to you that
they were going to go to Moscow and speak about what you spoke about?

MR. TRUMP: No, not to my recollection. Ronda (ph) is Fabien's wife, so
in looking at this | didn't think to see what his wife was. We had lunch, as | would
with anyone who was hosting me at a speaking engagement like this.

MR. CASTRO: Now, you said earlier that you're not a foreign policy
expert?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. CASTRO: That's why you didn't weigh in on a lot of foreign policy
stuff?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

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MR. SWALWELL: Yeah, of the senior principals.

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you remember Mr. Kushner being there?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Your sister lvanka?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Paul Manafort?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea who was with him.

MR. CONAWAY: Trey?

MR. GOWDY: Do you know Paul Erickson?

MR. TRUMP: Like | said, | may have met, but | couldn't tell you who he is
right now.

MR. GOWDY: Nothing more than the presentation of a gift for Mrs. Trump
tied to the Russian Orthodox church. | guess if you are married there would be
two Mrs. Trumps, and if Erik's married there would be three Mrs. Trumps. Do you
know which Mrs. Trump they are making reference to in the email?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine, since they are referring to Mr. Trump initially,
probably Melania Trump.

MR. GOWDY: They didn't give you any gifts, though?

MR. TRUMP: Not that ! recall.

MR. GOWDY: Will you look at the last paragraph for me? The paragraph
beginning, Putin is deadly serious about building a good relationship with Mr.
Trump. What does that suggest to you if he is interested in building one?

MR. TRUMP: That there is no relationship prior.

MR. GOWDY: You know, | am always astounded that we take verbatim

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write him directly?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, on June 3, Mr. Goldstone sent you an email with the
subject line, "Russia - Clinton - private and confidential.". Were you expecting this
email?

MR. TRUMP: | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: And where were you when you received the email?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | was in New York City.

MR. SCHIFF: And what were you doing in New York City?

MR. TRUMP: | was working on the campaign and our business at the
time.

MR. SCHIFF: Your email response to Mr. Goldstone, | think around
20 minutes after receiving it, was that you were on the road. Would that have
referred to New York, or would that have referred to somewhere else?

MR. TRUMP: I don't know. Maybe | was on the road. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Would it refresh your recollection to see your email that
made reference to being on the road?

MR. TRUMP: It would, please.

MR. SCHIFF: Could we produce that for the witness.

MR. TRUMP: Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: Does that help you recall at all where you may have been
when you received Mr. Goldstone's email?

MR. TRUMP: No. It just clarifies that, | guess, | was on the road, but |
was all over the place at that time, so | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Would that indicate to you that you were not in New York?

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been Emin? I'm only asking this because he said with his father.

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea. | never actually thought about it that way,

but | understand exactly what you're saying now that | read it carefully.

MR. ROONEY: Well, | mean, this Goldstone guy, could he have
been -- he is the promoter of Emin, correct?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. ROONEY: Could he have been joking about Emin being a crown
prosecutor of Russia in some jovial way for some reason?

MR. TRUMP: Perhaps.

MR. ROONEY: I'm just trying to understand why he would say his father.

Anyway --
MR. FUTERFAS: Could! have 1 minute. Thank you.
[Discussion off the record.]
MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.
MR. ROONEY: Okay.

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MR. TRUMP: I'm not aware of any.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you or your father ever discuss with the general his
December 29 call with the Russian ambassador in response to the Obama
administration's imposition of sanctions?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: And you wouldn't have talked to your father about this?

MR. TRUMP: | would not have.

MR. QUIGLEY: So you have no knowledge as to whether your father
instructed the general to make those calls?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. QUIGLEY: No knowledge whether anyone else would, Mr. Bannon, KT
McFarland, Tom Bossert?

MR. TRUMP: | have no knowledge of the calls that | can recollect or that
even took place until | read about it two days ago.

MR. QUIGLEY: Are you aware of any calls or meetings that your father had
with his transition team about the Obama administration's sanctions and Russia's
response?

MR. TRUMP: No, none that | recall.

MR. QUIGLEY: And finally, you had no conversations with your father about
any of those matters?

MR. TRUMP: Nothing | would have really spoken to him about.

MR. QUIGLEY: Go ahead.

MR. SCHIFF: | just have one additional question before | head it off to Mr.

Swalwell.

On July 11 of 2017, i BBE emailed his father with a

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MR. CASTRO: (I. who would that be?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea who that is, either.

MR. CASTRO: Who is?

MR. TRUMP: She's someone in our marketing group.
MR. CASTRO: What's her title? Do you know?

MR. TRUMP: She's the head of the marketing division.

MR. CASTRO: He includes AE = Vho if?
MR. TRUMP: \

MR. CASTRO: And in the body of the email he talks about WikiLeaks
uploading archived files from the DNC and says that it's too big to send you by
email attachments, then gives you a website address where you can download it.
And then he gives you a decryption key that's quite long.

Do you remember this email?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

HSV. Castro, 1 minute, sir.

MR. CASTRO: Okay.

Did you check out the website and use the decryption key?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that | recall.

MR. CASTRO: Have you ever done business or The Trump Organization
done business with Aviation Management, Inc., or Drone (ph) Cohabitation
Services, LLC?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. CASTRO: | yield.

MR. CONAWAY: Tom.

Allright. Mr. Schiff for 15 minutes.

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MR. TRUMP: | don't even know. We were still dealing with a contested
convention. It wasn't something | wanted to deal with, with potential for a
contested convention. So it wasn't something that | would have wanted to deal
with right now. It didn't matter that much to me.

MR. SCHIFF: And yet, notwithstanding the contested convention and the
sensitivity of time, you immediately set up a meeting in Trump Tower with these
emissaries.

MR. TRUMP: They followed up with me. And, you know, like | said, |
didn't -- he reached out to me each of those times. He then follows up 3 days
later and says, you know, can we set up the meeting?

| would have been willing to meet, you know, his friends or partners or boss.
They were people who had done business with us. We had looked at other deals
together. So it was a relationship that they would have said, "Hey, we're going to
be in town, | want to meet," | would have done that as well.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, if you're interested in -- it was a meeting in late
summer rather than the revelation of the dirt in late summer, why did you have the
meeting almost immediately thereafter?

MR. TRUMP: Because they pressed, and | was in town, so | took the
meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did you mean by saying that you would love that
kind of information?

MR. TRUMP: | would say, you know, if a friend says, "Hey, you want to go
grab a beer after work?" -- "Sure, | love it." | think it's a colloquial term of
expression. | think it's pretty clear by when | say, you know, if it's what you say,

that I'm at least somewhat skeptical of what he's putting out there, but, again, I'd

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MR. SCHIFF: And, Mr. Trump, are you prepared to represent that you've
made complete production to the committee, not withheld any documents relevant
to the investigation?

MR. TRUMP: As far as I'm aware, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: The email chain with Mr. Goldstone that you tweeted out
that you have before you, has it been altered in any way?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Apart from the documents your counsel referenced, were
there any other email messages exchanged during the conversation that were not
forwarded as a part of the chain that you posted?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Were there any other emails or text messages or other
communications with Emin or Aras Agalarov about the subject of this email
exchange?

MR. TRUMP: | do not believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you email or send text messages or have other written
communications with Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, or anyone else on the
campaign about the meeting that's referenced in these emails?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | did. | believe | just asked them to attend.

MR. SCHIFF: The email you posted shows that you forwarded the chain to
Kushner and Manafort. Did either of them reply to you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: How did you decide which version of the email to release
publicly?

MR. TRUMP: | just released the one that I had.

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45-minute rounds. These time limits will be strictly adhered to with no extensions
being granted.

Our record today will reflect that you have not been compelled to appear.
You are reminded that it is unlawful to deliberately provide false information to
Members of Congress or staff. The record will also reflect you are voluntarily
participating in this interview under oath.

At this time, please raise your right hand.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?

MR. TRUMP: | do.

HE Thank you.

Mr. Conaway.

MR. CONAWAY: Good moming, Mr. Trump. Thank you for coming this
morning. We appreciate you coming in. We'll conduct the interview.

Adam, any statements you have?

MR. SCHIFF: No. Mr. Trump, welcome to the committee. Appreciate
your being here.

MR. TRUMP: Thank you. Good to be here.

MR. CONAWAY: With that, I'll turn it to the ranking member for his
45 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Trump, let me begin by asking you about your relationship with Rob
Goldstone. When did you first meet Mr. Goldstone, and what was the nature of
your relationship?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | first met Mr. Goldstone at an event we held in

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had no knowledge of the question that they were asking, so | asked if others
perhaps knew about this supposed PAC.

MR. GOWDY: Which explains your next question, "Do you know the
people mentioned and what the conspiracy they are looking for could be?"

MR. TRUMP: The people mentioned on the website?

MR. GOWDY: | assume that's what you meant when you said that.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: Did you know the people mentioned?

MR. TRUMP: | did not know them myself. | wanted to see if they did.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. "These are just screen shots, but it's a fully built
out page claiming to be a PAC. Let me know your thoughts, and if we want to
look into it."

And it looks like you got someone response to that email. s that right?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. GOWDY: That was from Brad. "We should be ready for this with our
own page then so searches come to us. Crazy."

| think you probably know why this line of questioning is being pursued. It
is, again, an effort to determine whether or not there was any coordination with
WikiLeaks related to the dissemination of information that they may have acquired.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: So I'm going to ask you again. Was there any collusion,
coordination, conspiracy between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks to release
and/or time the release of any of the ill-gotten gains?

MR. TRUMP: No, there was not.

MR. GOWDY: And prior to this reach out from WikiLeaks, had you had

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ultimately come out?
MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:
MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:

Yes, | believe so.
And did she express an opinion on it?
| don't recall.

The part of the setup to the meeting that also discussed this

as part of Russia and its government's support for your father, was that in the longer

version of your statement?

MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:

I don't recall.

But that was excluded from what you made public?

MR. FUTERFAS: You mean in the first --

MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:
MR. TRUMP:
MR. SCHIFF:

statement?

MR. TRUMP:

In the first statement?
Yes.
It was not in the first statement.

Why was the decision made to exclude that from the

Perhaps it just, again, brought up unnecessary potential

questions that we didn't feel necessary to have to address with The New York

Times.

MR. SCHIFF:

Wouldn't that have been pertinent to the public understanding

of why the meeting took place?

MR. TRUMP:

| don't know that it was our obligation to give The New York

Times anything. We could have not commented at all.

MR. SCHIFF:

Would you agree, though, that, given the meeting was about

a completely different purpose, it was misleading to the public to suggest it was only

about adoptions?

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Agalarov, again, was serving as a conduit for the Russian lawyer in efforts to repeal
the Magnitsky Act as a follow-up to your conversation in June?

MR. TRUMP: Well, either that, or Rob Goldstone, | don't know, but Rob
says that he is doing it on behalf of Aras.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, would Rob Goldstone, as a music promoter, have any
particular interest in the Magnitsky Act?

MR. TRUMP: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Would he be doing this and representing he's doing it on
behalf of Aras Agalarov if the Agalarovs, either Emin or Aras, had not authorized
that?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: During the course of your meeting in Trump Tower, were the
sanctions imposed on the Magnitsky Act discussed?

MR. TRUMP: | believe they were. Generally speaking, as part of the
Magnitsky Act, this sounds reasonably familiar, so --

MR. SCHIFF: And what do you recall what was discussed about sanctions?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall much, only that the sanctions, | guess, were
what prompted Russia shutting down the adoption program for the U.S.

MR. SCHIFF: And did Ms. Veselnitskaya make it clear that the Russians
were hoping that if Mr. Trump were successful, he would eliminate those sanctions?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know if she said that, but it was apparent that she was
lobbying for the removal of sanctions.

MR. SCHIFF: Was there any discussion at the meeting of the Democratic
National Committee?

MR. TRUMP: As | said, the only thing that could have been, as it related to

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had inquiries from a number of committees and other sources and have
responded appropriately thereto.

MR. CASTRO: Okay. | mean, just so you know, we've asked that of other
witnesses as well, so it's not just a question that's particular to you.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yeah.

MR. TRUMP: Understood.

MR. CASTRO: Let me ask you about a speech that you gave in Paris.
This was late in the campaign. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. CASTRO: When abouts was it?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it was early, mid-October of 2016.

MR. CASTRO: Now, earlier you said that you'd been very busy traveling a
lot on the campaign and | imagine for business as well. How do you decide to go
in October, a few weeks before the election, to Paris to give a speech? Was it the
85,000, or was it something else?

MR. TRUMP: | have always supplemented some of my income public
speaking. I've been doing that for decades. So, yeah, | did a 24-hour turnaround
trip to do that.

MR. CASTRO: How did that invitation come to you?

MR. TRUMP: It came through someone who had booked me for
numerous speaking engagements in the past.

MR. CASTRO: Jan Jones?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. CASTRO: And can you describe the person or persons who were

inviting you to go speak, what their role is or who they are?

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| was willing to listen to him. We were acquaintances. | knew his boss, was
happy to listen to him. But that's about the extent of my knowledge at this time.

MR. SCHIFF: So you wouldn't bring this to your father, but you would
bring it to the campaign manager and to your brother-in-law?

MR. TRUMP: Yes. They were very involved in the campaign. They
understood this stuff more than | did. Certainly, Paul was more experienced with
it, so | wanted them to listen in.

MR. SCHIFF: Did anyone have a more influential role in the campaign
than the campaign manager and your brother-in-law, Mr. Kushner?

MR. TRUMP: My father.

MR. SCHIFF: But apart from them, those would have been two of the
most senior members of the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And you thought it was worth their time to meet with
Mr. Goldstone based on what he represented?

MR. TRUMP: | thought they should listen in.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone suggested in his email that, because of the
sensitivity of the information, rather than sending it to Rhona, perhaps it'd be better
for you to speak to Emin. Did you agree to speak to Emin?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that -- let me see. | believe we went back and
forth about me trying to speak to Emin.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you speak with him?

MR. TRUMP: Not that! recall. | show three phone calls back and forth
between him and I, both -- all of which were very short duration. So perhaps we

were playing phone tag.

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MR. TRUMP: | may have. | don't recall seeing it. | don't reply to it. But
| very well may have.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, at this point, you had at least responded to two
prior WikiLeaks messages to you with a response. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And your testimony today is you don't know if you saw
this message or not?

MR. TRUMP: | may have seen it. | don't remember seeing it. | have
obviously read it since then. | don't know if | saw it at the time or later.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you tell your father about this October 12, 8:31
message from WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: No, | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: How are you so certain?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | was in Europe that morning, so it's not -- and | have
no phone records of communications with my father, so | probably didn't.

MR. SWALWELL: So | believe, and you can correct me, but that the
October 12 direct message was 8:31 Eastern time. So it would have been a
couple hours later in Europe. Is that right?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that. If! was in Europe, that could be 8:31
wherever | was locally.

MR. SWALWELL: Fifteen minutes later, 8;46 a.m., your father tweets the
following from his account: "Very little pickup by the dishonest media of incredible
information provided by WikiLeaks. So dishonest. Rigged system, exclamation
point." Did you have any prior knowledge that this tweet was going to be sent by

your father?

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MR. TRUMP: | believe he was. It appeared that way.

MR. SCHIFF: And why didn't the Trump Tower deal materialize that you
discussed with Emin?

MR. TRUMP: In the end it sort of fizzled out. | think we believed it was
maybe not the best location for a first entree into, you know, a major market. It
was a little bit outside of the CBD that we would have wanted to develop an ultra
luxury project.

MR. SCHIFF: When did you or Emin conclude that that project wasn't
going to happen?

MR. TRUMP: It was one of those deals that just sort of -- there was never
a definitive discussion. People just sort of put pencils down on both sides and
never proceeded.

MR. SCHIFF: And about what time period would that have been?

MR. TRUMP: | would imagine that would have been -- and, again, I'm just
trying to give you a best guess estimate -- but probably end of '14.

MR. SCHIFF: What is your father's relationship with the Agalarovs?

MR. TRUMP: Casual friendship. They had done some business together
with the Miss Universe pageant. That's about the extent of it.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know how often your father was in contact with Aras
Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: Not particularly, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And do you know how they were introduced to each other?

MR. TRUMP: I don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Did they maintain personal communication with each other

after the Miss Universe pageant?

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or were by WikiLeaks.

MR. TRUMP: Yeah. | am looking at October 7. So can you repeat the
question?

MR. SWALWELL: So on October 7, you had a retweet from at WikiLeaks
that said, secret paid Clinton speech. Quote, "You need to have a public position
and a private position on policy. Hashtag Podesta emails." Do you remember
retweeting that WikiLeaks post?

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember retweeting it, but | don't have reason to
believe that | didn't.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. And you went on to retweet an at CNN politics
story about WikiLeaks posts, followed by another at WikiLeaks retweet with
respect to hashtag Podesta emails, followed by a FOX News story linking to
WikiLeaks, and then followed by a Twitchy Team story about John Podesta's
emails and an October surprise, five tweets on October 7, the same date that the
Intelligence Community assessed WikiLeaks was working with Russian
intelligence services. And my question was why. Why did you retweet so many
WikiLeaks stories that day?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | retweeted FOX News and CNN. Like | said, the
major media outlets of the world were covering this story. | must have thought it
was relevant and, you know, newsworthy enough. | probably have retweeted
things a lot less significant than that.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you discuss or coordinate your promotion of these
materials on October 7 with your father?

MR. TRUMP: No, not that I recall.

MR. SWALWELL: How about anyone else on the campaign?

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You're not familiar with that at all?

MR. TRUMP: | know that there are some Russian buyers in Trump
properties in southern Florida. | also know that we are a licensor of our brand on
those properties in southern Florida and aren't the developer or the person that's
receiving money for the sale of those units. We'd get a fee from the owner of the
building based on those sales. So we're not actually selling to those buyers at all.

MS. SPEIER: Are you familiar with the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act?

MR. TRUMP: |am.

MS. SPEIER: What is your understanding of it?

MR. TRUMP: Well, my understanding, it's a complicated legislation that I'd
let my attorneys speak to.

MS. SPEIER: Well, it prohibits U.S. actors from engaging in
conscious -- in a foreign -- conscious disregard of the actions of a foreign partner
or intermediary. In May of 2012, your father on CNBC said it was a horrible law,
and that Americans -- American companies who refuse to give bribes, you will do
business nowhere.

Did you ever have conversations with your father about the Foreign Corrupt
Practices Act?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. : In 2010, your father, in announcing the opening of
Trump SoHo, said it's a $370 million work of art. Do you remember where the
funding came from?

MR. TRUMP: There were numerous institutions involved, | believe,
throughout the process. | believe High Star Financial (ph) was the mezzanine

lender. There was another primary mortgage lender that was -- | forget. | don't

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who is flying over from Moscow this Thursday. This is before we ever set up the
meeting. So he doesn't even know if I'd be in town at that stage. So! presume
at that point that she's coming over for other business as well.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, you made reference to the earlier email and his
discussing a crown prosecutor and raised a question about whether that really was
a crown prosecutor because that office might not exist. At the time, though, you
didn't know whether there was a Russian crown prosecutor or not, did you?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: So a subsequent email makes reference to a Russian
Government attorney. That would be consistent with the Russian crown
prosecutor. Would it not?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | would think a Russian Government attorney is a
different level than a crown prosecutor, but | don't know that | know either way.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, did you --

MR. FUTERFAS: May | have a moment -- excuse me -- before the next
question.

MR. SCHIFF: Yeah.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: When Mr. Goldstone represented that a Russian
Government attorney was coming, did you have any reason to question whether,
in fact, this attorney was affiliated with the Russian Government?

MR. TRUMP: Other than, again, knowing Mr. Goldstone, no.

MR. SCHIFF: You told Mr. Goldstone in a subsequent email that the

meeting would likely be with Paul Manafort, campaign boss, my brother-in-law,

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MR. TRUMP: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: Yield back to the ranking member.

MR. SCHIFF: | just have a few more questions, and then | am going to
hand it to Jackie Speier. On October 7, one thing my colleague referenced the
statement of the Director of the Department of Homeland Security and the Director
of National Intelligence --

MR. TRUMP: Of this year?

MR. SCHIFF: Of last year, October 7, 2016.

MR. TRUMP: Okay.

MR. SCHIFF: In which the Directors stated that U.S. Intelligence
Community is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent
compromises of the emails from U.S. persons and institutions, including from U.S.
political organizations. Were you aware of that statement when it was issued on
October 7?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. SCHIFF: You don't recall the intelligence agencies announcing for the
first time that, quote, "The recent disclosures of alleged hacked emails on sites like
DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2 online persona are consistent
with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts"?

MR. TRUMP: | have read that since. | don't know what | knew at the
time.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, it's fairly big news at the time that the U.S. Intelligence
Community had concluded that, quote, “These thefts and disclosures are intended
to interfere with the U.S. election process," unquote. Does that refresh your

recollection?

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MS. SPEIER: Sol am only addressing financial deals associated with
Russian operatives. And our inquiry is about whether or not there was a
relationship between The Trump Organization, the Trump campaign, and Russia,
and if so, what it might be engaged in or relative to.

And if you -- in terms of Mr. Sater, he actually said in an email, "Buddy, our
boy can become President of the USA, and we can engineer it. | will get all of
Putin's team to buy in on this." So --

MR. FUTERFAS: Allright. If | may confer one more second with my
colleagues. Thank you.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Madam Congresswoman, we understand and accept
your theory of this line of questioning, at least in terms of pertinence, and we'll
continue to answer your questions with respect to what you're -- what you have
said. Thank you.

MS. SPEIER: All right. Thank you.

So Felix Sater was one of your partners, Bayrock. He was Russian. He
pled guilty to money laundering in New York State. You're aware of that.

MR. TRUMP: I've heard that, yes.

MS. SPEIER: He at one time was flashing business cards that said Trump
Organization on it. So he was actually employed by The Trump Organization at
some point?

MR. TRUMP: No, he was never employed by The Trump Organization.

MS. SPEIER: But he had his offices in Trump Tower?

MR. TRUMP: For a few months, he had an office in Trump Tower, yes.

MS. SPEIER: Mr. Sapir, is that his name?

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there anything else that she said that he had noted, preferred, or wanted to add or
subtract?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, but | don't have them in front of me right now.

MR. QUIGLEY: But it was that specific?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | don't know if it was specific at all. 1 think she thought
that they preferred the shorter statement. | looked at it and said, okay, | think that's
fine because it covers all the bases. It's, you know -- it is an accurate statement
without going into more detail. | was fine with that and agreed to it, and in the end
it was my call to release the shorter statement.

MR. QUIGLEY: And you expressed that you hadn't talked to anyone about
the meeting. This exchange, this story didn't spur a discussion with anyone in the
Trump campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, simply because it was such a -- the only
people | spoke to about it were counsel. And because, to me, the meeting was
such a nothing, | didn't think that this was a big deal at all.

MR. QUIGLEY: It didn't spur -- this final thought on that didn’t spur a
conversation with your father about the meeting --

MR. TRUMP: No, | never --

MR. QUIGLEY: -- subsequent to that?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | never spoke to him other than what | said on
Monday, with his counsel and my counsel present.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. Did you serve on the executive committee of the
Trump transition team?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know if | officially did. | wasn't very involved in the

transition team. | did get myself involved in some things but not on an extensive

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MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | did.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you tell your father -- and again, when you say "I
don't believe | did," are you saying you don't recall or --

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall ever having a conversation with my father
asking him to retweet something that | had retweeted or retweet something that
someone had asked me to. Could it be possible? Yes. Would it be very likely?
No. Just not based on the way | communicate with my father.

MR. SWALWELL: And so just to tie this up, from September 20th, the first
time that WikiLeaks contacted you and you wrote back, to now October 3, when
you are contacted again by WikiLeaks and wrote back, your testimony is that
between the 20th and the 3rd you never spoke directly by phone or any other
communication to your father about your communications with WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: That's my testimony in terms of | don't recall ever speaking
to him about it, certainly not during those time frames, frankly at any other time.

MR. SWALWELL: So from October 7 -- just on October 7, you actually
retweeted five different tweets relating to WikiLeaks and Guccifer 2.0. Why?

MR. FUTERFAS: Can we see them first? Are they part of this exhibit?

MR. SWALWELL: Yeah.

MR. FUTERFAS: Here itis. This is exhibit number --

a 2

MR. FUTERFAS: Exhibit No. 2?

MR. TRUMP: Can you give me the dates again?

MR. SWALWELL: Sure. On October 7, the same day that the
Intelligence Community assessed that WikiLeaks was working with Russian

intelligence services, you retweeted five different tweets that related to WikiLeaks

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about a statement to accompany the emails?

MR. FUTERFAS: No -

MR. TRUMP: Neither.

MR. FUTERFAS: Let me just, | think, note -- | think we should -- these
questions that concern a response to a media inquiry 13 months after the
event -- which is what these questions are about, they're about a response to a
media inquiry -- | am concerned that they are not pertinent, as the Supreme Court
has defined pertinence in Watkins v. the United States, to this committee's -- the
parameters of the committee.

And | just want to put it out there, because | have concerns. | have what |
understand to be the public description of this committee's inquiry, and I'm reading
it, and | do not see how information about a response to a media inquiry 13 months
after the events is pertinent to investigation of events that occurred well before that.

You know, the Supreme Court law in this is pretty solid, that questions have
to be pertinent to the jurisdiction of this committee. And | have concerns, and I'm
voicing those concerns, that questions about how people are going to respond to a
media inquiry is not necessarily pertinent to what Russia did or didn't do during a
period of time or what, you know, et cetera.

So | don't know what this committee wants to do with that, but | do have
concerns about pertinency in this regard.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, you've already offered to make the text or email
communications available to the committee, so obviously discussing with the
witness what the contents of those is pertinent to what you've already agreed to
provide to the committee.

Beyond that, if the witness characterized the meeting differently in

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questions that have been asked and answered specifically and are repetitive.

MR. CASTRO: About whether he still believed, after reading this message
about rigging, and -- okay. Let me ask you a different question. Do you think
they were trying to give you political advice there?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know what they were trying to say. | don't even
know if | saw it at the time, so, you know, if they are trying to create controversy
perhaps. | don't remember seeing it until | produced it for this committee or the
other committees.

MR. CASTRO: Did you see WikiLeaks as unbiased, as a neutral arbiter?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that | had an opinion. | think if they had
salacious information on my father, there is little doubt in my mind that they would
be dropping that to create a story. | think they were very opportunistic.

MR. CASTRO: So on October 21st, 2016, on the previous page, which is
Bates stamped DJTJR0O1268, they say, quote, "If we publish, then it will
dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality. This is the real kicker.
That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing about Clinton will
have much higher impact." Do you perceive that as impartial? That was not
asked before.

MR. FUTERFAS: Let me just state my objection. | recall very specifically
that Mr. Trump, Jr. was asked specifically the basis for his understanding or
characterization for it is a type of media organization. And he specifically
answered before that he felt they were, as he just said, opportunistic. These are
questions and answers that were treaded hours ago.

MR. TRUMP: | think | can answer that. | mean, | think they will tell me

what they think | want to hear for me to give them what they're looking for, which is

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brand. They view that with an era of, you know, whatever it may be. There's a
reason, you know, the biggest Italian retailers in the world in fashion houses have
places in Moscow, in Shanghai, et cetera, et cetera, because that's valuable to a
lot of those markets.

And perhaps that's why they're buying Trump properties elsewhere around
the world, you know. Or perhaps they're looking to get their money out of Russia
as well because they're concerned about their own government.

| can't speak to them. It could be any number or one of those issues. But
| imagine, again, if our relationships were that solid and that good with Russia, we
would have had a lot more actual business ventures in Russia or with Russians.

MR. ROONEY: Peter, did you have a question?

MR. KING: Mr. Trump, maybe you could put some of this in perspective
for me, especially with the New York real estate market.

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. KING: Isn't it common for countries like Russia -- people from Russia,
China, Saudi Arabia to buy condominiums in New York and never even live in
them, just buy them to invest?

MR. TRUMP: Very much so, especially when you break it down into high
end. You know, the ultra luxury stuff, the new construction builds that, you know,
we did when our primary focus was as a developer, that would be oftentimes
majority owned.

Those are people that, you know, they may not be able to get into a co-op if
they wanted to, so they're buying new construction, new type builds. And so we
would have always had a disproportionate amount of foreign investment in our

buildings by the nature of what we're building and the brand.

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MR. TRUMP: | believe casual correspondence, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And how would they communicate with each other?

MR. TRUMP: | believe mostly letter, occasional congratulations, like we
would get from my of our partners along the way.

MR. SCHIFF: Did they communicate by email?

MR. TRUMP: My father doesn't generally use email, so | don't -- | don't
think so. | know they were -- in preparation for this | saw that there were some
emails sent by Mr. Goldstone congratulating him on behalf of Aras, but that's the
extent of my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: And emails to your father, are those delivered to Rhona to
be read to the President, or what was the practice last year?

MR. TRUMP: Generally speaking, people would contact her, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: Does your sister lvanka have a relationship with the
Agalarovs?

MR. TRUMP: | believe she's met Emin. | believe she visited the site in
question that we were talking about the real estate transaction on, but | don't
believe there's any real relationship there, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And how about your brother Eric?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Does Jared Kushner have a relationship with the
Agalarovs?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Are there any other of the Trump administration, current
administration, or Trump campaign officials that you're aware had a relationship

with the Agalarovs?

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MR. TRUMP: It was my impression that it was his legal team.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. Why did the -- why was your preference to go with
the shorter version? What was your preference and why?

MR. TRUMP: Well, initially | think | wanted to go with the longer version. |
chose to go with the shorter version because | think it addressed all the points and
didn't -- in the end may not have led to other questions. But, you know, once it
became apparent that, you know, The Times had the full chain, | was happy to
release them all and show everyone what they were talking about.

MR. QUIGLEY: So it didn't include the fact that the original premise was, in
the meeting with Russians, to talk about dirt on Hillary, correct, something like that?

MR. TRUMP: Correct. | didn't think it was necessary to tell The New York
Times what the meeting wasn't actually about just because that was the premise of
the meeting.

MR. QUIGLEY: Or acknowledging who was participating in the meeting, the
same answer?

MR. TRUMP: Well, at that time | probably didn't even remember who was in
the meeting beyond the female attorney and her translator.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did she communicate at all with you about what each
person on the plane's thoughts were? | mean, did she specifically say that the
President wants you to say X or that he contributed anything in particular?

MR. TRUMP: | think, you know, she made it clear that his preference was
the shorter statement as well. | know edits had gone back and forth with -- through
counsel. And in the end it was clear to me that it was up to me, and | was fine with
that.

MR. QUIGLEY: So she did say that he preferred the shorter version. Was

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MR. TRUMP: Sater, | believe.

MS. SPEIER: Sapir?

MR. TRUMP: Sater.

MR. FUTERFAS: S-a-t-e-r.

MS. SPEIER: No, | know. The other gentleman, S-a-p-i-r.

MR. FUTERFAS: Oh, Sapir.

MS. SPEIER: What do you know about Mr. Sapir?

MR. TRUMP: Notas much. | dealt with his son primarily, Alex.

MS. SPEIER: Have you heard that he has been identified by the FBI as a
member of a Russian mob in Brighton Beach?

MR. TRUMP: He has been dead for a few years. | don't know that now.

MS. SPEIER: Allright. Let's move on to Trump International Hotel in
Toronto. That was heralded as a $500 million, five-star condo hotel. Do you
know where the funding of that came from?

MR. TRUMP: I don't. We were a brand. We weren't the developer.

MS. SPEIER: Well, it evidently came from an Austrian bank. The first
partner was a gentleman by the name of Leib Waldman (ph). Do you remember
him?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MS. SPEIER: He pled guilty to bankruptcy, fraud, and embezzlement to
the United States and then fled to Canada. Shortly thereafter, when that became
public, the Ritz-Carlton, | believe, didn't want to do business with him anymore.

And then Alex Schnader (ph) became the principal developer. He had no
previous hotel or condo experience in terms of developing. And he was a

Russian-born Canadian. Do you remember Alex Schnader (ph) ?

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MR. QUIGLEY: Using Hillary Clinton's emails during the course of the
campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Also don't know.

MR. QUIGLEY: Now, would have had any -- on all those same questions,
would have had a discussion with General Flynn on any of those issues, general, on
Putin, U.S.-Russia relations, Ukraine, U.S. sanctions, none of those?

MR. TRUMP: We may have, but | don't recall ever speaking to him about
those issues, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Just roughly, how many times you might have had a
conversation with General Flynn?

MR. TRUMP: A dozen, maybe two dozen times I'd see him. | mean, if he
was in the campaign offices, that doesn't mean | wouldn't go by him three times a
day if he was working in New York that day. But | didn't --

MR. QUIGLEY: You had conversations, but they were about none of these
issues?

MR. TRUMP: Correct. Most of our conversations with General Flynn
would have generally been casual, you know, formalities, hello, goodbye, how's the
family. | didn't -- you know, my job on the campaign and throughout was mostly
being on the road campaigning, speaking all around America, so | didn't get very
involved in foreign policy or other issues of that nature because, frankly, we had
teams that had much more knowledge than | ever would have, so | did what | was
good at.

MR. CONAWAY: All right. Turning to the Twitter exchange with WikiLeaks
in September 2016.

MR. TRUMP: Sure.

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MR. SWALWELL: Where did you meet him?

MR. TRUMP: He was at a dinner, meaning at a restaurant that | was
eating dinner at with a large group of people. He wasn't part of our group.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you speak with Mr. Torshin?

MR. TRUMP: Briefly.

MR. SWALWELL: What did you discuss?

MR. TRUMP: We discussed primarily stuff as it related to shooting and
hunting. And that he was a big gun enthusiast.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk about the Presidential campaign that was
underway?

MR. TRUMP: Not really, no.

MR. SWALWELL: So this is 2 months before the Republican convention,
and 6 months before the general election and the Presidential campaign wasn't
discussed at all?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't think | had anything to speak with him about that.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he speak with you about it?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall. We exchanged casual hellos, small talk,
and | went back to my dinner.

MR. SWALWELL: Was he with anyone else when he spoke to you?

MR. TRUMP: He had a couple people in the room, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you know if they were affiliated with Russia in any
way?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know for certain, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you exchange contact information with Mr. Torshin?

MR. TRUMP: Not that! recall. And just prepping for this, | checked my

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MS. SPEIER: So what we're trying to determine is whether or not Russia
has made available to Deutsche Bank financial resources for The Trump
Organization?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that, no. And I've never heard of Deutsche
Bank Moscow or that branch.

MS. SPEIER: Okay. So one of the allegations concerning Deutsche
Bank is that there was a period of time when the President's properties were at
risk for default, and he had difficulty finding a bank that would lend to him. Are
you familiar with that time period?

MR. TRUMP: Yes, the early '90s.

MS. SPEIER: Well, it was actually -- press reports indicate that your father
attempted in 2008 to default on some $330 million owed to Deutsche Bank, which
led to competing lawsuits from Deutsche Bank and your father. Do you
remember that?

MR. GARTEN: Pertinence?

MR. TRUMP: Yeah.

MR. FUTERFAS: Again, I'm not -- I'd like -- | think we would require some
kind of -- again, to connect the dots on pertinency of these issues to this
committee's investigation.

It seems all to arise from this idea that Deutsche Bank has a branch or
maybe even a separate entity in Moscow and therefore any of the other dealings
that other branches or other, in fact, separate entities of Deutsche Bank, which
they may be, somehow is connected or influenced.

| mean, that seems to be the nature of connecting the dots, but | think the

question is simply of Mr. Trump, Jr. whether he's aware of any connection or

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know, I'm not speaking for the minority, but I think that the inference is that
because your family operation has been involved in these buildings and these
various markets with people that buy or involve themself in The Trump
Organization in some way that happen to be of Russian descent or heritage or
citizenship, that that transfers up into the 2016 election.

And those relationships, whether directly or indirectly or just by some other
means, had the effect that there was a preexisting relationship with Russia, and
that that preexisting relationship may have in some way inspired the Trump
campaign to have a contact with the Russian Government to coordinate, collude,
or conspire to help them win the election over Hillary Clinton.

So I'm not speaking for them. That's how I'm taking it. So if you want to
take a crack at all those seeds being laid over the decades with people that have
Russian last names or that are Russian, you know, fast forward all the way up until
2015, 2016, 2017, those relationships have amounted to the coordination,
collusion, or conspiracy in the campaign with those Russians or through their
proxies and Putin to help the Trump campaign beat Hillary Clinton.

Do you think that that's true?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | think, based on my knowledge of this stuff, | think if
that was true and the relationships were that good, we'd have a lot more deals in
Russia and a lot fewer Russians buying anywhere but Russia from us.

So, you know, | would have thought that those relationships perhaps would
have translated to deals in Russia, if that's the insinuation and instead of having
zero deals in Russia we would have had multiple.

Instead, | believe that Russians, like Saudis, like the Chinese, it's a

brand-conscious society. We were essentially the first ultra luxury real estate

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were using social media to help your father?

MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Quigley.

MR. QUIGLEY: So you referenced your discussions with the general would
have been probably campaign-oriented. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Generally speaking, yes.

MR. QUIGLEY: So in that vein, did you have any discussions about
WikiLeaks or Julian Assange with him about --

MR. TRUMP: None that! recall, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Nothing about your discussions or communications with
WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you or your father ever discuss with General Flynn or
Jared Kushner their December 1, 2016, meeting with the Russian ambassador at
Trump Tower?

MR. TRUMP: | did not. | can't speak for the others.

MR. QUIGLEY: Were you present at that meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | was not in the meeting, but it happened in my office.

MR. QUIGLEY: Were you in the building at the time?

MR. TRUMP: Iwas. The only reason | know of the meeting was because |
either was dropping off my gym bag or picking up my gym bag on the way to the
gym as it was going on.

MR. QUIGLEY: So did you have any conversation with the Russian
ambassador?

MR. TRUMP: Not that! recall. | don't recall specifically even meeting him,

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MR. TRUMP: | read that she did, but | don't have any knowledge of it.

MR. GOWDY: Were you paid by any campaign to do oppo research?

MR. TRUMP: No, | was not

MR. GOWDY: Was that your job on the Trump campaign to do opposition
research?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. GOWDY: Okay. That's all | have, Mr. Chairman.

MR. CONAWAY: All right. Adam, 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: During the course of the meeting, did Mr. Manafort ask any
questions?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall. If | remember correctly, he was mostly just
on his iPad.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Kushner ask any questions?

MR. TRUMP: | don't remember him asking any.

MR. SCHIFF: Did either of them ask questions along the same lines that
you did, whether there was more to the information they had to offer, or whether
they could explain just what this derogatory information was supposed to mean?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall them asking anything, so | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Manafort, Mr. Kushner go into the meeting with you?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | got there a few minutes before them, and, you
know, casual niceties, but they were there shortly after.

MR. SCHIFF: And did they both stay for the entire meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | believe Mr. Manafort did. | believe Mr. Kushner took a
phone call partway through.

MR. SCHIFF: And how long did the meeting last?

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MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

Hive minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Was there any mention in the meeting of Russian support for
your father or the Russian Government's preferences for the outcome of the
election?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ask Ms. Veselnitskaya how this information was
supposed to be helpful in the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: I may have. I don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you take any notes on the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether anyone else took notes?

MR. TRUMP: As | mentioned earlier, Mr. Manafort was on an iPad, but |
don't know what he was doing.

MR. SCHIFF: And to your best recollection, there were no documents
provided or exchanged?

MR. TRUMP: That's correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And how did the meeting conclude?

MR. TRUMP: Casual goodbyes, and Rob was the last one to leave, sort of
apologized for taking up our time, and everyone moved on accordingly.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, you've said that you didn't discuss this meeting with Mr.
Kushner or Mr. Manafort after it concluded. Did you discuss the meeting with
anyone else?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | remember, no.

MR. SCHIFF: You mentioned that you did discuss with your father the

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MS. SPEIER: Forty million, is that what you said?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MS. SPEIER: Is that the personal guarantee?

MR. TRUMP: That is personal guaranteed.

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MS. SPEIER: And the Post Office then is for how much?

MR. TRUMP: Approximately 200?

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm just going to -- we're answering these questions.
Again, Congresswoman Speier, can someone state the nature of the pertinence of
these questions to this --

MS. SPEIER: Sure, of course. So there is a relationship
between -- there's Deutsche Bank Moscow, which has the -- which owns basically
all the business of VTB, which is the Kremlin bank.

MR. TRUMP: | don't understand what the -- Deutsche Bank has a branch
in Moscow, so that means --

MR. FUTERFAS: Is that a question for us, or is that a statement?

MS. SPEIER: No. I'm just telling you what the relationship is. You
wanted to know what it had to do with Russia.

MR. FUTERFAS: So we understand Deutsche Bank has either a separate
entity or a separate branch in Moscow that has some kind of relationship with the
Russian Government or the Kremlin.

And then the question is whether funding domestically for domestic projects
from Deutsche Bank here in New York -- or not here in New York, we're in
Washington -- in New York City is -- I'm just trying to connect those dots about

pertinence.

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MR. TRUMP: | believe so.

MR. FUTERFAS: To be clear, as to the last question, during that
communication we understand that his father had counsel present as well for that
conversation.

MR. SCHIFF: You received the email from Mr. Goldstone on June 3 and
responded within 20 minutes. Did you talk with anyone else before you
responded?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And what was your understanding of what Mr. Goldstone
was offering in that email when you received it?

MR. TRUMP: Frankly, | didn't know exactly what to understand of it.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, what was your best understanding of what he was
offering?

MR. TRUMP: Well, it says what it says. But! also understood Rob to be
a rather colorful music promoter. He was Michael Jackson's manager and a
former tabloid journalist.

So | think | was a little bit skeptical of what it could be, which is why | asked
to speak to Emin and why | also said, you know, maybe we can deal with this at a
later time because we were in a pretty busy situation.

MR. SCHIFF: Had you or your campaign gotten prior offers of assistance
from Russia?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SCHIFF: Had you or your campaign asked for Russia's assistance?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SCHIFF: So this was the first offer and only offer of assistance from

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MR. SWALWELL: Why do you think that Mr. Sater would claim that he
had arranged for your sister to sit in Mr. Putin's chair?

MR. TRUMP: Felix is a promoter.

MR. SWALWELL: Like Mr. Goldstone?

MR. TRUMP: Similar. Different, but similar.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Sater also said on November 3, 2015, "Michael,
Putin gets on stage with Donald for a ribbon cutting for Trump Moscow and Donald
owns the Republican nomination." Did Mr. Cohen ever tell you about this
message from Mr. Sater?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SWALWELL: But you agree that in that exchange, Mr. Sater is mixing
a potential business deal and a political campaign that your father's in?

MR. TRUMP: You would have to ask Mr. Sater.

MR. SWALWELL: But would you agree that that's an accurate
characterization?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know. We were still a business at the time. | have
no idea what his intentions were.

MR. SWALWELL: When, to your knowledge, did the Trump Tower
Moscow deal fall apart?

MR. TRUMP: | don't have specific knowledge of when it fell apart.

MR. SWALWELL: |s it still active today?

MR. TRUMP: No, it's not.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you have knowledge at all of it ceasing?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: So Mr. Cohen never came to you and said, hey, that

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MR. SCHIFF: Did he visit Trump Tower during the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: |! don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether he had any links to Julian Assange?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Apart from the Russians who were present at the June 9
meeting and the Russians that you met at the NRA meeting, did you have any
contact with any other Russian nationals during the course of the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Again, not to my recollection, but you have got to remember
| spoke to -- | spoke in front of five groups of 300 to 3,000 every day for 9 months.
If someone was there, that doesn't mean | didn't shake their hand, but not to my
recollection and no specific instances do | recall meeting anyone else, but | met
tens of thousands of people every week on the campaign trail.

MR. SCHIFF: One last topic. Prior to your father's May 9 decision to fire
Director Comey, did he ever ask you what you thought he should do about
Comey?

MR. TRUMP: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss the Comey firing with him?

MR. TRUMP: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Prior to making the decision, press reports indicated he was
at one of the family resorts. Do you know which one that was?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. SCHIFF: Which is the resort in New Jersey?

MR. TRUMP: Bedminster.

MR. SCHIFF: Bedminster. Did you accompany him to Bedminster the

weekend before the decision was made to fire James Comey?

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basis.

MR. QUIGLEY: What was your role?

MR. TRUMP: As it related to transition?

MR. QUIGLEY: Right.

MR. TRUMP: | basically helped vet some of the people for the Department
of the Interior initially. That would have been right after election and did not -- it
was -- | wasn't going to be going to D.C., so | sort of weaned myself off and got
back to our business, which we had maybe neglected a little bit for the prior year.

MR. QUIGLEY: Well, did you attend any transition team meetings with the
executive committee or anyone else?

MR. TRUMP: | may have.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. Did you serve or play any role on the national
security team that was involved with the transition?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, but that doesn't mean | wasn't in a
meeting.

MR. QUIGLEY: Do you know how many meetings there were or how many
you might have participated in on the national security team?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

MR. QUIGLEY: Okay. Do you recall when you met General Flynn the first
time?

MR. TRUMP: Not specifically, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: When would have been the last time you met the general?

MR. TRUMP: Maybe the last time would have perhaps been around
inauguration. | imagine | saw him there.

MR. QUIGLEY: You didn't -- you haven't -- you didn't meet with the general

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MR.
MR.
MR.

25

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SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:

through her, yes.

And what role does she play in The Trump Organization?
She's my father assistant.
Does all the communication go through her to Mr. Trump?

| don't know about all, but a lot of people would probably go

MR. SCHIFF: So she reads the majority of the correspondence in emails

that go to your father?
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

through Rhona?

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

last year?

MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:
TRUMP:
SCHIFF:

| would imagine so, yes.

Does she also answer his phone?
On occasion, yes.

And handle his appointments?
Yes.

Could or would someone contact your father without going

Possibly, yes.
And how would they do that?
Likely by calling him.

So a few people would have a direct number for your father

| would imagine so, yes.

And the rest would have to go through Rhona?
Yes.

Did Mr. Goldstone send this information to Rhona?
| don't know.

Was this deemed too sensitive to send to Rhona and rather

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although | don't think there's that much of division of authority among Members of
Congress. Unfortunately, | have colleagues on my side of the aisle who became
relativists in 2016, and were complimentary of WikiLeaks. |'ve never been
complimentary of WikiLeaks. | think they're an enemy of the United States, but it
is going to lead my colleagues and will lead me to ask why contact them at all and
why have any contact with them?

MR. TRUMP: At the time, | looked at them as essentially a media outlet.
The information that they were putting out was interesting to us, but in no way,
shape, or form do | not believe that if they had compromising information on us,
both then, and my father's current presidency, that they wouldn't put them out. |
look at them as a opportunistic organization.

MR. GOWDY: If my notes are right, they attempted to contact you ona
couple of different occasions, privately or directly, and you did not respond.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: Is that your -- why would you not respond?

MR. TRUMP: | guess it became apparent to me they were looking for stuff
for me to give them that | wasn't going to give them, and there was no reason to
respond to them.

MR. GOWDY: In particular, there's an October 12th, 2016, twitter direct
message between yourself and WikiLeaks, and my notes have "Trump, Jr. does
not respond."

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: At least, according to my notes, there are a half dozen
instances where you did not respond.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

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MR. TRUMP: Went with the short.

MR. SCHIFF: And had that been her recommendation?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that was her preference, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And what information was included in the long statement that
was not included in the short statement?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | don't have it in front of me, but, you know, ancillary
additional details about the meetings that expanded beyond, | guess, the initial
inquiry of the New York Times reporter.

MR. SCHIFF: And what ancillary information was that?

MR. TRUMP: The -- I guess -- I'm trying to recall. | don't have them both in
front of me. | believe just details about what perhaps was the premise of the
meeting initially versus what actually transpired at the meeting and filling in
additional blanks.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, the longer version, did it include more information about
the initial purpose of the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | believe it did.

MR. SCHIFF: And that was the information about what was being
promised?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And that was ultimately excluded from the statement that was
issued?

MR. TRUMP: That is correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And did Hope Hicks explain why she was recommending that
that be excluded?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that was the preference of, you know, her and the

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MR. SCHIFF: Did either, to your recollection, Mr. Kushner or Mr. Manafort
ask you any questions about this after receiving your email?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have any kind of a pre-meeting discussion with
Mr. Manafort or Kushner about what you hoped to accomplish in the meeting or
what people were coming to tell you?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So even before you walked into the room, you didn't discuss
with them who you'd be meeting with or why?

MR. TRUMP: | didn't know who I'd be meeting with.

MR. SCHIFF: You knew you'd be meeting with a Russian Government
attorney, right?

MR. TRUMP: That's about the extent of it, correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And you knew they'd be offering derogatory information
about Hillary Clinton, right?

MR. TRUMP: | knew what Rob wrote, but, again, | didn't know what to
expect.

MR. SCHIFF: But you didn't even communicate, this is what | was
informed, but | don't know what to expect to anyone else?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall communicating with them.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have any further communication with Rob
Goldstone prior to the meeting, other than these email exchanges?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: So you didn't have any phone conversations with Rob

Goldstone about what to expect in the meeting?

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have continued to make use of WikiLeaks in your campaign?

MR. TRUMP: | guess it would depend on who else -- if the major media
outlets, as they had, continued to publish the WikiLeaks stuff, | may have
continued to retweet those other outlets pushing that information. | don't know. |
can't speculate as to what | would have possibly done.

MR. SCHIFF: And if you had concluded that the Russian Government was
also behind the effort to arrange the meeting in Trump Tower and provide you
other information on Hillary Clinton, would you have made use of that information?

MR. TRUMP: Excuse me, can you repeat the question?

MR. SCHIFF: If you had been made aware that, or if you had concluded
that the Russian Government was similarly behind the effort to organize the
meeting at Trump Tower and provide you the information that was provided at that
meeting, would you have likewise made use of that information?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: But you may not have been deterred even if you knew it
was a senior Kremlin-directed effort?

MR. TRUMP: | very well may have. Again, | just don't want to speculate
as to what | may have done in a hypothetical situation.

MR. SCHIFF: But you can't rule it out that you would have done it
anyway?

MR. FUTERFAS: Object to the question. And it's been asked and
answered about six times.

MR. SCHIFF: But you can't rule out that you might have made use of the
information even if you had known it had come from senior levels of the Kremlin?

MR. FUTERFAS: My client has said five times, and the record will

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any contact with them?

MR. TRUMP: Again, not to my recollection, no.

MR. GOWDY: Did you direct anyone else to have contact with WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no.

MR. CONAWAY: It's time.

MR. GOWDY: Well, | guess we got to go vote.

MR. CONAWAY: Allright. We have four votes, which will take about
45 minutes. Depending on what you'd prefer to do, we can leave staff to finish off
questioning and we can come back, or if you want to break to go get a bite to eat,
you can do that. So what would you all prefer?

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Chairman, | would strongly urge that we not continue in
the absence of members. | think all of our members want to be here. This is one
of the more significant witnesses that we are going to have.

So | would suggest we just take a lunch break and resume after votes.

MR. CONAWAY: Allright. So we will start immediately when | get back,
and I'm coming right back, so no dillydallying around after votes.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever known me to dillydally, Mr. Chairman?

MR. CONAWAY: Just going on the record to say no dillydally.

We can get you in and out of the building, whatever you'd like to.

MR. TRUMP: We'll take it from there. We'llbe okay. Thank you.

[Recess.]

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Russia to your father's campaign that you're aware of?

MR. TRUMP: Well, | don't know that that was what it was, but that's what
Rob says.

MR. SCHIFF: And that would have been the first offer of that kind from
Russia that you're aware of?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And the only offer?

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And were you surprise by the offer?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | wasn't sure exactly what to make of it,
understanding Rob. But, you know, as is pretty clear, | told him I'm on the road,
maybe I'd speak to Emin first, seems we have a lot of time, if we could do it later,
even later in the summer. So, again, | wasn't sure quite what to make of it.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Goldstone's email refers to the crown prosecutor of
Russia and that he had met with Aras Agalarov. Were you aware of any
relationship between the crown prosecutor and Aras Agalarov?

MR. TRUMP: No. And I'm not even aware that a crown prosecutor is a
real thing in Russia.

MR. SCHIFF: And was that something you were aware of at the time?

MR. TRUMP: | just -- | didn't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have any reason to question whether there was a
crown prosecutor of Russia at the time that you received the email?

MR. TRUMP: Other than understanding Rob's personality and potential for
hyperbole, probably no.

MR. SCHIFF: And yet you suggested two of the top campaign people

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seem that significant to me, but | don't know where he was. He may have been
there.

MR. FUTERFAS: They are meeting somewhere in the building.

MR. TRUMP: Correct. He wasn't in the meeting, no. | know that for
certain, but he may have been in the building or he may have been on the road. |
don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you speak to your father the same day as the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: I don't recall. | may have.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss with your father, let's say that date, the
nature of the meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't recall ever speaking to my father about the meeting.

MR. SCHIFF: And who spoke during the meeting? Was it only Ms.
Veselnitskaya from the Russian delegation -- only Ms. Veselnitskaya and her
translator?

MR. TRUMP: That's what | remember. She spoke through a translator, |
believe, throughout the entirety. | don't remember anyone else, you know,
speaking up, but they may have.

MR. SCHIFF: So Mr. Goldstone, to your knowledge, didn't say anything?

MR. TRUMP: The only thing Mr. Goldstone said was at the end of the
meeting. He apologized to me for using up our time because it was apparent to me
that he believed what | believed, which was that it was a bait-and-switch talk about
something which we knew nothing about, which was, again, Russian adoption and
the Magnitsky Act.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Goldstone also feel that the information that was

promised wasn't sufficiently useful?

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MR. FUTERFAS: I'm sorry. We have to --

MR. TRUMP: If you have them, I'd look at them.

MR. FUTERFAS: We may have to see the documents. | just
don't -- yeah, if we could see. Oh, okay. Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: And what you're looking at, is that a text message from
Emin dated November 10 of last year expressing congratulations on the win from
Emin and Aras Agalarov? ’

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And would this have come from -- that one is addressed
from both Emin and Aras. Would that have come from Emin's phone?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine so. | don't recall ever having communications
with Aras, so probably.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall texting Emin at all around the time of the
Trump Tower meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't.

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the past and you also said "off the record"?

MR. TRUMP: Almost all of them.

MR. GOWDY: Well, give us a sense of who that might be so no one is left
with the impression that you responded to WikiLeaks somehow differently than
you would CNN or ABC.

MR. TRUMP: Maggie Haberman of The New York Times, Tom
Hamburger (ph) of The Washington Post, Jake Tapper of CNN, Katy Tur. |
imagine anyone that you've seen on TV or read about in newspapers over the last
2 years has probably, over the last same period of time, reached out to me about
comment for something or for some sort of inside baseball as to what was going
on.

MR. GOWDY: And it strikes me that the phrase "off the record" could be
used for at least two reasons, and maybe more than two. Number one, you could
be authorized to speak on the matter, but you seek anonymity. Or you could not
be authorized to speak on the matter. In other words, your official role and
responsibilities would not include speaking on behalf of the campaign.

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. GOWDY: Were you a spokesperson, official spokesperson, on behalf
of the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: | imagine | could have filled that role. | don't know that I
ever had an official capacity that way. But there are times | would have certainly,
you know, jumped in and been an official spokesperson.

MR. GOWDY: Allright. | want to go back to your response. And, again,
the distribution list includes Brad Parscale, who, if memory serves me correctly,

was a social media expert?

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question just said the President represented. Could you rephrase the question one
more time. I'm sorry.

MR. SCHIFF: I'll restate the question.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yeah. Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: To your knowledge, was the President's representation that
he discussed adoptions with Putin part of an effort to communicate or reinforce the
idea that your Trump Tower meeting was only about adoptions?

MR. TRUMP: No, that's not my understanding at all.

He minute.

MR. SCHIFF: On June 14, The Washington Post reported the DNC had
been hacked and attributed that hacking to the Russian Government. Rob
Goldstone emailed Emin Agalarov that day with one of the press articles on the
hacking and said in the email, quote, "Top story right now. Seems eerily weird
based on our Trump Tower meeting last week with the Russian lawyers, et cetera."

If we could show that email and article to Mr. Trump.

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the timing of that, following your Trump Tower meeting?

MR. FUTERFAS: My client has already answered that same question, and
he's indicated he doesn't even recall this article at the time. If you could -- if | could
ask you to rephrase your question, if you don't mind.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall where you were when you first learned that the
Russians may have hacked the DNC emails?

MR. TRUMP: | don't, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall about when it was?

MR. TRUMP: | don't specifically, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Was it shortly after your meeting at Trump Tower?

MR. TRUMP: It may have been. | don't know.

MR. CONAWAY: Time. Do you have questions?

MR. ROONEY: | think we have -- about 1:45 --

MR. CONAWAY: We have a series of four votes about 1:45, so we'll have
to address that here shortly.

But, Adam, 15 minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

So just to finish the question. | take it -- well, when you learned that the
Russians had hacked the DNC computers or it had been reported that they had
hacked the DNC computers after your Trump Tower meeting, did you make any
connection or did it seem strange to you that that would be made public right after
your meeting?

MR. TRUMP: | don't know that | thought about it at all.

MR. SCHIFF: On June 29, Rob Goldstein emailed Dan -- I'm sorry.

MR. CONAWAY: Goldstone. You called him Goldstein.

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Florida, the WGC Cadillac championship. It was a golf tournament. He's a
manager of Mr. Emin Agalarov, who was performing there.

MR. SCHIFF: And how long ago was that?

MR. TRUMP: | believe that was March of 2014.

MR. SCHIFF: And since 2014, how often would you have contact with
Mr. Goldstone?

MR. TRUMP: He would occasionally email me. | think that was
probably -- that was the first time | met him. Then | met him in New York on one
of the meetings I'm sure we'll discuss later on today. And other than casual email
correspondence, | don't know that we've met again.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, between the time you met him in 2014 and last year,
how many times did you see him in person?

MR. TRUMP: Face to face, | believe, twice.

MR. SCHIFF: And what were those occasions?

MR. TRUMP: The golf tournament and the meeting on
whatever -- whatever it was, in June of 2016.

MR. SCHIFF: So the golf tournament in 2014, between the golf
tournament in 2014 and the meeting at Trump Tower in 2016, you hadn't seen him
in person at all?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so. | may have met casually, but | don't
believe | had.

MR. SCHIFF: How often would you receive email correspondence from
him, say, during 2014 and 2015?

MR. TRUMP: It'd be every few months.

MR. SCHIFF: And how about telephone conversations?

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[Recess.]

MR. CONAWAY: All right. Adam was about to continue with his line of
questioning. So thank you all.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel had to confer, so | don't know if you have something
you wanted to inform us of.

MR. FUTERFAS: We're done conferring, and we will answer your
questions.

MR. SCHIFF: Thank you, counsel.

So if you would, getting back to your text exchange with Hope Hicks, | asked
if it concerned the scope of the emails that would be released or the scope of the
statement that would be released. | think you said neither.

MR. TRUMP: It was only about the statement.

MR. SCHIFF: In your text communications with Hope Hicks, did you discuss
whether to release the emails?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe | did.

MR. SCHIFF: And in terms of the statement, did you draft a statement
yourself and send to her, did she draft one and send it to you? What was the
nature of the communication?

MR. TRUMP: | worked with counsel on the statement, and counsel may
have sent to Hope.

MR. SCHIFF: So when Hope Hicks texted you, she already had a
statement that you and counsel had worked out?

MR. TRUMP: | believe she had a version or may have had versions of a
statement from counsel.

MR. SCHIFF: And did she send you either edits or suggestions to the

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So, you know, it is about maintaining relationships. If | think -- if, you know,
Joe Smith, who I'd never heard of and didn't know anyone that we had done
business with in the past, would have reached out to us, you know, | would have
sent it to campaign counsel, whatever it may have been, or just flat out ignored it.

You've probably experienced on the campaign trail yourself, everyone has
the sure-fire way that you can win.

MR. ROONEY: Uh-huh.

MR. TRUMP: This is the only way to do it. Meanwhile, it's not a top 1,000
issue, you know, for your average constituency. So I'd experienced that along.

But, you know, again, my background, it's a lot of business is relationship.

MR. ROONEY: Since we speculate a lot on this committee and not like in
court, but just trying to get to the bottom -- and I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
I'm saying, you know, a lot of what we're trying to get to is just information just so
we can write our report.

What do you think your dad would have said if you told him that you had
information coming from Rob Goldstone with regard to -- that was with -- regarding
the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | don't want to speculate as to what he would have
said. | know, you know, his general mantra during, you know, anytime throughout
the election, | mean, is we've just got to focus on speaking to the people, getting
out there. You could see that, you know, both in the primaries as well as during
the general.

You know, if you look at the time that we spent, you know, on possible
transition before the election, he didn't want to waste his time with transition.

We'll deal with that on November 9 if we win, and we'll make up for lost time then.

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ask you, how many times have you tried to put a Trump Tower in Moscow?

MR. TRUMP: | mean | looked at a few deals over the years. Nothing had
ever materialized. So | don't know, four, five attempts.

MR. SWALWELL: Why Moscow?

MR. TRUMP: Just like any other major city in the world, command high
real estate prices, appreciate luxury brands. That's who we are.

MR. SWALWELL: How many times have you been there?

MR. TRUMP: | believe | have been there five times.

MR. SWALWELL: What time period?

MR. TRUMP: First, on around 2003, and the last time, around 2011.

MR. SWALWELL: 2011 was the last time you were there?

MR. TRUMP: | believe so, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Jared Kushner familiar with Michael Cohen and
Felix Sater's efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow in 2015?

MR. TRUMP: He probably would not have been.

MR. SWALWELL: Why do you say that?

MR. TRUMP: Because he wasn't a member of The Trump Organization.
He wouldn't have been looking at our deals.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Mr. Kushner's wife, your sister, lvanka?
Would she have been aware of the effort in 2015 to have a Trump Tower in
Moscow?

MR. TRUMP: | have seen an email with her on it. | don't think she was
extensively involved either.

VOICE: One minute.

MR. SWALWELL: Which email did you see with her on it?

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communicated with you in any other form?

MR. TRUMP: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SWALWELL: WikiLeaks wrote, "A PAC run anti-Trump site
‘putintrump.org’ is about to launch. The PAC is a recycled pro-lraq war PAC.
We guessed the password. It is '‘putintrump.' See 'About' for who is behind it.
Any comments?"

MR. TRUMP: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And you responded: "Off the record | don't know who
that is but I'll ask around. Thanks."

You wrote that in response to WikiLeaks. Is that correct?

MR. TRUMP: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Your response suggests a familiarity with the WikiLeaks
and this account.

Now, when you stated "off the record," was it your intent for WikiLeaks not
to publicly disclose that it was in communication with you.

MR. TRUMP: First of all, | don't believe my response indicates a
familiarity. | respond "off the record" as | would to any number of media outlets or
media personalities that contact me this way, as | would with Jake Tapper or Katy
Tur, any number of the people that contacted me on a regular basis.

So | responded to them as | would any other media outlet. _ | hadn't heard
about it, but | would ask around.

MR. SWALWELL: Why did you respond "off the record" to WikiLeaks?

MR. TRUMP: Because | look at them as a media outlet, and | would not
have wanted any response that | gave them to be public.

MR. SWALWELL: Meaning that you would not want WikiLeaks to make it

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after inauguration?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall, but, you know, if | was at the White House
with my father, I'd been there a few times, but | may have seen him there. But!
don't recall specifically meeting him, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: During transition times you would have met with him?

MR. TRUMP: | would have seen him. Again, | didn't have extensive
contact with him. More of the contact | would have had with him was perhaps
during the campaign.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did you discuss with General Flynn any of the -- did
General Flynn in the discussions he might have had with you during the course of
the campaign talk to you about Russia?

MR. TRUMP: Not to my recollection, no.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did he talk to you about sanctions and Ukraine?

MR. TRUMP: | don't believe so, no. | didn't get too involved in foreign
policy.

MR. QUIGLEY: Did he talk to you -- did you two talk at any time during the
transition period about Russia or sanctions and Ukraine, any of those issues at all?

MR. TRUMP: Not that | recall.

MR. QUIGLEY: Can you describe General Flynn's relationship and contact
with your father during the campaign?

MR. TRUMP: He was an adviser. He occasionally traveled with my father
as an adviser. | don't believe he was primarily based in New York. | think he was
primarily based down in D.C., but he would be in New York on occasion.

MR. QUIGLEY: So it's your understanding that they would meet and

communicate in various means, correct?

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[11:00 a.m.]

MR. ROONEY: And it says here at the end of this email: "Helped along
the Russia and its government support for Mr. Trump, helped along by Aras or
Emin."

Was it your understanding at all during this campaign or specifically through
this email that the Agalarovs were acting on behalf of Putin and the Russian
government? Was that your understanding?

MR. TRUMP: No, it was not.

MR. ROONEY: So when you read that, what was your impression?

MR. TRUMP: Again, in reading this whole chain, it was -- you know, and

- understanding where it came from, | wasn't exactly sure what to make of it.

MR. ROONEY: On the later email with regard to the Russian Government
attorney, this, again, is by Mr. Goldstone, and he says, "The meeting between you,
the Russian Government attorney," when you read that, was it your impression
that the person coming was acting on behalf of the Russian Government, or a
Russian attorney who worked for the government, or what was your impression of
that?

MR. TRUMP: Again, | didn't know exactly what to make of it. | only knew
what Rob had said and probably discounted some of that accordingly.

MR. ROONEY: So the meeting end up happening with Mr. Manafort, Mr.
Kushner, yourself, and then the representatives with the Russian attorney. Did
you talk about Hillary Clinton and the so-called dirt at that meeting?

MR. TRUMP: Not really. They started off on a -- talking about, you know,
| guess some people who had done business in Russia and the U.S. who are big

donors to Hillary Clinton, and perhaps the DNC, and how they were avoiding

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