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A | would say | was really surprised, because | spoke with Mr. Harris
too, and he didn't really tell me what was going to happen, and he just kept asking
me to explain my side of the story. And especially as this was very soon after
Peter had died, and | didn't know why, | was very reluctant to go in the press about
anything.

And then the story came out, and | was mentioned in it. So then later |
found out that Shane Harris' main source was Matt Tait, and that was more -- it
made more sense. But until | found that out, | was confused, yes, and surprised.

Q Were you surprised that Mr. Smith spoke to a reporter, or were you
surprised at the content of what Mr. Smith communicated?

A Oh, no, | was surprised at the content.

Q So you'd never heard of any of those things?

A Sorry. Peter would love to, like, talk in the press. He was used to
working the media, so | was not surprised that he would want to self-aggrandize.

Q Why would he do that so long after the election? Why wouldn't he
have done that earlier then?

A Do what?

Q Go to the press?

A Talk to a reporter?

Q Right.

A No reporter had spoken with him. | mean, actually the reporters
from the New York Times spoke with him during the election cycle about how
Peter's emails were hacked. So she actually -- in response to your question, he
did talk to the press earlier.

Q Were you aware of activities by Russia-linked hackers who were

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A | don't know.

Q Mr. Smith never talked about it?

A I'm sorry?

Q Did Mr. Smith ever talk about Lieutenant General Flynn?

A Yes, but | don't remember exactly what he said. | do remember it

was more at the beginning of our -- like when | knew Peter, and | don't remember
him talking about him related to the election at all.

Q One of the documents that you provided to us appears to be related
to KLS Research. Do you recall that document?

A Yes, ma‘am.

Q Where did that document come from?

A From Peter.

Q Did you help him put this together?

A Not to my knowledge.

Q You wouldn't have helped him with any links, internet links, links to
bios?

A Oh, | remember that he provided me with the document, like he
wrote it. And then | -- he wasn't good enough with PDFs to put links on it, so |
overlaid it in this program. | put hyperlinks on top of what he wrote. So | guess |

should have said when you said put together, | did help with that part, but | didn't

write it.
Q Did you read it?
A Sorry?
Q Did you read the document?
A Did | see it?

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pages about which States have gone to which party. Honestly, that's the only
thing that | actually did with the election, | mean, to my understanding. So --

Q Okay. | think my colleague has a question.

oY

Q Hi. i's and | just would like to backtrack to get there. So
you were at the tutoring service and you went -- so when you came to him, you
were their employee. They were paying you to do this, correct?

A They being Varsity Tutors?

Q Yes.

A If you mean that | was the employee of Varsity Tutors, yes.
oy
Is someone speaking to you?
My dad.

Is he giving you your answers, or are you testifying?

> oO Fr OD

No.
oY

Q Okay. So before we get to the 270ToWin, at some point in time did
you become an employee of Mr. Smith?

A No. | became an employee of Corporate Venture Alliances, LLC.

a

Q What is corporate -- what is this LLC?

A Corporate Venture Alliances, LLC, is incorporated in Delaware. It
had offices in Wilmington. It was the vehicle by which Peter and his colleagues
invested in various startups and kept tabs on various investing companies that

they had aligned with over the decades, through which Peter became a respected

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who was apparently somehow related to Trump, and that was pretty much the
extent. Aside from he would always say that he knew Kellyanne Conway, but |
don't know if that's true.

Q Did he speak about his communications with Lieutenant General
Flynn?

A | know how this sounds, but he never talked about him after the first
few months after | met Peter. | remember after Flynn got -- whatever happened
to him, Peter might have mentioned him in the news, like when he came up in the
news.

Q Do you know -- go ahead,

,

Q Just to follow up on that, so if he was mentioning that, are you talking
about General Flynn's departure from the White House?

A That is right.

Q Okay. So that was well after. So that's in 2017 you
continued -- you had contact with him until the day before he died. But how often

was this contact?

A I'm sorry. Are you talking about my contact with Peter Smith?
Q Yeah.

A Did you -- are you saying how often did | talk with Peter?

Q Yeah.

A Hello?

Q Yes. I'msorry. In 2017, because the development you're talking
about occurred in 2017 after the inauguration.

A Yes. | talked with Peter until the day he died.

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A

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Yes. Did you read it?

| think at a cursory level.

Did you ever communicate with Brian Robins of AlienVault?
No, but | know who he is.

Who is he?

He went to Vanderbilt, didn't he?

Who is Brian Robins?

All | remember about him was that he was another person that Peter

knew that went to my alma mater, Vanderbilt University. | just remember he has

an unusual spelling of his last name.

Q
A

Q

Who was your understanding of his role in Mr. Smith's operation?
No idea. Sorry. | just recognize his name.

You're not -- are you aware of Mr. Robins' involvement searching the

dark web for Hillary Clinton's emails?

Not at all.

Have you ever communicated with Mr. Robins?
Never.

Do you know who Royal O'Brien is?

Yes.

Who is he?

That's a good question. | think Peter told me that he worked with

Royal when Peter's company in the 1990s was investing in a video game

company. And that was -- | never spoke with Royal, and that's all | ever heard

about him.

Q

He's a programmer based out of Florida, and Mr. Smith apparently

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During your relationship with Peter Smith, did you have any information to suggest
that Mr. Smith was involved in any illegal activity?

A No, sir.

Q During your relationship with Mr. Smith, do you have any information
to suggest or know that Mr. Smith acted as a go-between, between the Trump
campaign and the Russian Government to help him get elected?

A No, sir.

Q Do you have any information in your possession or that you have
come across to suggest that the Donald J. Trump campaign for President
colluded, coordinated, or conspired with the Russian Government during the
elections?

A No, sir.

Q Do you have any information in your possession that you, Mr. Smith, Mr.
Tait, or anyone of the other individuals that you communicated with or for on Mr.
Smith's behalf conducted that role, that is to say, they acted as a go-between
between the Trump campaign and the Russian Government during the 2016
election?

A No, sir.

Q And in the entire universe of your relationship with Mr. Smith,

Mr. Tait, and any of the other individuals referenced herein, do you have any
information to show that any of those individuals, including yourself, colluded,
conspired, or coordinated with the Russian Government on behalf of Donald
Trump and/or his associates to have him elected?

A No, sir.

HE don't have anything else.

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A No, ma’am.
oy
Did you attend the inauguration?
No, ma'am.
oY
Q Did Mr. Smith?
A No. | was with Peter on the day of. We went to Frankie's bar -- or
nota bar. It was just like a pizza place and we had pizza and watched people

throw stones at Republicans -- on TV, of course.

| We can go off the record.
a

Q And one quick question. One more. Sorry.

The Politico article that you mentioned said that you had told them -- told
the reporter that you were copied in on all of the emails related to the election. |
think you termed them the election emails. Is that correct?

A | don't really know. | don't know to what you're referring, but |
don't -- | don't think that fact would be correct or that statement. | don't know if |
said it in the article. | may or may not have said that in the article, but it's not true.

Q Okay. And do you know if Mr. Smith -- when, if ever, Mr. Smith
stopped his effort to hunt the Clinton emails?

A I didn't even know when he started it, so that's just an aside. But,
no, | don't know that. | do not know.

2,
Q And, Mr. Safron, | just have -- actually, I'm going to just reference

one other document that you don't necessarily have in front of you, but it is from

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A No, ma'am.
oy a
Did you attend the inauguration?
No, ma'am.
oy
Q Did Mr. Smith?
A No. | was with Peter on the day of. We went to Frankie's bar -- or
nota bar. It was just like a pizza place and we had pizza and watched people

throw stones at Republicans -- on TV, of course.

HSV 20 go off the record.

oY

Q And one quick question. One more. Sorry.

The Politico article that you mentioned said that you had told them -- told
the reporter that you were copied in on all of the emails related to the election. |
think you termed them the election emails. |s that correct?

A | don't really know. | don't know to what you're referring, but |
don't -- | don't think that fact would be correct or that statement. | don't know if |
said it in the article. | may or may not have said that in the article, but it's not true.

Q Okay. And do you know if Mr. Smith -- when, if ever, Mr. Smith
stopped his effort to hunt the Clinton emails?

A | didn't even know when he started it, so that's just an aside. But,
no, | don't know that. | do not know.

, —e
Q And, Mr. Safron, | just have -- actually, I'm going to just reference

one other document that you don't necessarily have in front of you, but it is from

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A

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Yes. Did you read it?

| think at a cursory level.

Did you ever communicate with Brian Robins of AlienVault?
No, but | know who he.is.

Who is he? -

He went to Vanderbilt, didn't he?

Who is Brian Robins?

All | remember about him was that he was another person that Peter

knew that went to my alma mater, Vanderbilt University. | just remember he has

an unusual spelling of his last name.

Q
A

Q

Who was your understanding of his role in Mr. Smith's operation?
No idea. Sorry. | just recognize his name.

You're not -- are you aware of Mr. Robins' involvement searching the

dark web for Hillary Clinton's emails?

A
Q
A
Q
A
Q

A

Not at all.

Have you ever communicated with Mr. Robins?
Never.

Do you know who Royal O'Brien is?

Yes.

Who is he?

That's a good question. | think Peter told me that he worked with

Royal when Peter's company in the 1990s was investing in a video game

company. And that was -- | never spoke with Royal, and that's all | ever heard

about him.

Q

He's a programmer based out of Florida, and Mr. Smith apparently

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MR. SAFRON: | affirm.

HR, Thank you. The witness being sworn, over to the minority
for their 45 minutes of questioning.

EXAMINATION
2,

Q Jonathan, on behalf of the ranking member, Congressman Adam
Schiff, and the other Democratic members of the committee, we appreciate you
getting on the phone with us today. Again, my name is [EE and I'm
with my colleague, EEE and we will both be asking you questions.

A Okay.

Q As you probably know, this is a bipartisan investigation looking into
four areas. The first area is what Russian activity and other active measures
were directed against the United States and our allies. We are also looking into
whether Russian active measures included links between Russia and individuals
associated with political campaigns or any U.S. persons.

We are also looking into the U.S. Government's response to the Russian
active measures and how to protect ourselves going forward. And finally, we are
looking into possible leaks of classified information related to the Intelligence
Community's January 2017 assessment of Russia's interference.

So we will get started. We are in receipt of a number of emails that you

provided to the committee, and we appreciate you sending those tous. The

email accounts we have for you are [an
 -:

Were there any other email accounts that you used during your, you know,

communications with Mr. Smith and his associates related to the activities of

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In 2015.
When in 2015?

> Oo >

| don'tremember. Sorry. Early? | don't remember.

Q Okay. And then did you know him basically until he passed away
earlier this year?

A Yes. | spoke to him on the day before he passed away, over the
phone.

Q In all of your conversations and your communications with Mr. Smith,
-did you ever get the impression that he was mentally unbalanced or that he wasn't
sort of in control of his life?

A I'm not really sure if | understand the question.

Q In the years that you knew Mr. Smith, did it concern you that he
might take his own life?

A Oh, no.

Q Did it concern you -- did you feel like he was a competent human
being?

A I'm sorry. Could you rephrase that, | guess.

Q Sure. Was he a functioning human being? He was -- what did he
do for a living?

A Oh. He was definitely a functioning human being.

Q And he had his wits about him. He wasn't crazy or anything. Is

that right?

A Yes.

Q It sounds like a crazy question, but, you know, | just want to establish
that he was --

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working to find Secretary Clinton's emails?
A No, ma'am.
oY

Q Did you search -- this is Linda again. Did you search WikiLeaks
regarding the emails that had been disseminated, published by WikiLeaks of
Secretary Clinton's emails?

A | believe | looked at them for personal reasons. | mean --

Q So you read --

A Sorry.

Q Okay. You read Hillary Clinton's emails for personal reasons, and
did you tell Mr. Smith this?

A It was -- oh, no. | remember | wanted to look -- | just had seen that
many of the emails were like, "Print this," and it reminded me of something that
Peter would send to me, kind of. | just thought it was funny, | mean, how
like -- that | connected with that personally. And | told Peter, like, there's so many
of these emails that just say, "Print." | don't know.

2,
Q So, Jonathan, | just want to reference an email that you sent to Peter

Smith on October 31, 2016. Do you have a copy of the emails that you provided

to us?

A | remember them. | could look at it if --

Q So you address all in the email to Mr. Smith. Can you tell me who
"all" is?

A No. | don't recall.

Q Do you recall what the subject line of that email is?

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MR. SAFRON: Well, thank you for allowing me to do this over the phone.
| really appreciate it. | actually have a meeting with a professor at 5:45 our time,

and it's really a great benefit to be able to help the committee and to be able to go

to law school. So thank you.

HE, Thanks for your time. And if we need anything, we will get
back in touch with you, and best of luck in law school.

MR. SAFRON: Thank you.

a &:

[Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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A | don't -- | remember writing it. | don't remember, like, why ! said the
last part or to whom | was -- like, | sent it to Peter | see in the subject line, or to the
"To,"

Q So I'm going to turn to another email, from John Szobocsan to Peter
Smith, and yourself, dated Thursday, October 6, 2016. Subject is, "There must
be more to the story."

A Wait, hold on. Sorry. Okay.

Q Do you recall this email?

A | recall -- yeah.

Q So it appears that you all are looking through, you know, WikiLeaks
and emails. Is that -- is that fair to say, that was part of what you all were working
on?

A ! wouldn't include myself in the you all. | see myself in the subject of
this. | would say, the reason is, | would sometimes be with Peter when John
wasn't, and | would just tell Peter, hey, look at your email.

So I'm not trying to deny what you're saying completely, but I'm saying that |
wasn't very much involved in it, except maybe in an administrative role for Peter.

Q Okay. Fair enough.

Now, if you had sent Matt Tait emails, would that also have been sort of in your
role just as an administrative person basically working for Mr. Smith?

A Absolutely.

Q Okay. Well, if that's the extent of your role, I'm not sure | have
anymore questions. if do you?

a

Q I'm just curious, have you ever met Donald Trump?

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A Okay.

Q | don't -- | never had the opportunity to meet him, so -- when you met
him in 2015, what were the circumstances? Like how did you come to meet him?

A Sure. So | currently am a law student, and | was not in law school
yet, and | was looking for a job. And | was employed through a tutoring service
known as Varsity Tutors. | think I'm still employed by them, but | get their emails.

But | was working with fifth graders and younger on test prep. And
one day | saw in my inbox that Peter Smith needed help and basically with like
basic computer things. Like, the first day | met him, | helped him set up his
LinkedIn profile. So that was the circumstance.

Q !see. And then did Mr. Smith essentially hire you to help him with
computer things?

A | want to just be really clear that he just didn't know how to use his
internet. Like, he didn't know how to use LinkedIn, and he didn't know how to use
this dictation software called Dragon. | think it was Dragon.

Q | totally believe you.

A So he just wanted me to show him those basic things at first.

Q Sure. 1100 percent believe you. He's probably about the same
level as my own mother.

A No worries.

Q And so you helped him set up his Linkedin account. At what point
did you become involved in some of the activities in the 2016 election?

A So | think, to my recollection, | showed Peter the website
270ToWin.Com in spring 2016. | think that was the first time that Peter and |

spoke about the 2016 election. And | printed out for him a bunch of Wikipedia

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who was apparently somehow related to Trump, and that was pretty much the
extent. Aside from he would always say that he knew Kellyanne Conway, but |
don't know if that's true.

Q Did he speak about his communications with Lieutenant General
Flynn?

A | know how this sounds, but he never talked about him after the first
few months after | met Peter. | remember after Flynn got -- whatever happened
to him, Peter might have mentioned him in the news, like when he came up in the
news.

Q Do you know -- go ahead, ||

a

Q Just to follow up on that, so if he was mentioning that, are you talking
about General Flynn's departure from the White House?

A That is right.

Q Okay. So that was well after. So that's in 2017 you
continued -- you had contact with him until the day before he died. But how often

was this contact?

A I'm sorry. Are you talking about my contact with Peter Smith?
Q Yeah.

A Did you -- are you saying how often did | talk with Peter?

Q Yeah.

A Hello?

Q Yes. I'msorry. In 2017, because the development you're talking
about occurred in 2017 after the inauguration.

A Yes. | talked with Peter until the day he died.

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businessman.
oY

Q So then Mr. Smith was the CEO of this company?

A No. He was the chairman.

Q Okay. So he was the chairman. And you were paid by Corporate
Venture Alliances?

A That is right.

Q And you were -- and was this in a full-time capacity?

A No, because | eventually starting going to law school, and | didn't
work full time. But! worked, | don't know, part time.

Q Okay.

a

Q When did you first hear about -- there is another LLC called KLS
Research. When did you first hear about that LLC for Mr. Smith?

A | think it was in fall 2016. And -- so you guys said to let you know of
the basic facts, so he told me the initials were Keep the Spread Low. And then he
went with John Szobocsan, who was the other person who worked in the Chicago
office.

And then he came back, and it was KLS, LLC. So if you were following
that, Peter told me it was going to be called one thing and then -- I'm just saying,
like, | wasn't involved in starting it. All| ever heard about it was the initials, why
they were named that. And then that wasn't even it.

Q Were you ever paid from KLS?

A No, ma'am.

Q Did you ever sign a nondisclosure agreement with Peter Smith or

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MR. SAFRON: | affirm.

HE, Thank you. The witness being sworn, over to the minority
for their 45 minutes of questioning.

EXAMINATION
oY

Q Jonathan, on behalf of the ranking member, Congressman Adam
Schiff, and the other Democratic members of the committee, we appreciate you
getting on the phone with us today. Again, my name is EY and 'm
with my colleague, [EES and we will both be asking you questions.

A Okay.

Q As you probably know, this is a bipartisan investigation looking into
four areas. The first area is what Russian activity and other active measures
were directed against the United States and our allies. We are also looking into
whether Russian active measures included links between Russia and individuals
associated with political campaigns or any U.S. persons.

We are also looking into the U.S. Government's response to the Russian
active measures and how to protect ourselves going forward. And finally, we are
looking into possible leaks of classified information related to the Intelligence
Community's January 2017 assessment of Russia's interference.

So we will get started. We are in receipt of a number of emails that you

provided to the committee, and we appreciate you sending those to us. The

email accounts we have for you are is ,
SS -:

Were there any other email accounts that you used during your, you know,

communications with Mr. Smith and his associates related to the activities of

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Appearances:

For the PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE:

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In 2015.
When in 2015?

> oO >

I don'tremember. Sorry. Early? | don't remember.

Q Okay. And then did you know him basically until he passed away
earlier this year?

A Yes. | spoke to him on the day before he passed away, over the
phone.

Q In all of your conversations and your communications with Mr. Smith,
did you ever get the impression that he was mentally unbalanced or that he wasn't
sort of in control of his life?

A I'm not really sure if | understand the question.

Q In the years that you knew Mr. Smith, did it concern you that he
might take his own life?

A Oh, no.

Q Did it concern you -- did you feel like he was a competent human
being?

A I'm sorry. Could you rephrase that, | guess.

Q Sure. Was he a functioning human being? He was -- what did he
do for a living?

A Oh. He was definitely a functioning human being.

Q And he had his wits about him. He wasn't crazy or anything. Is

that right?

A Yes,

Q It sounds like a crazy question, but, you know, | just want to establish
that he was --

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2016?

A No, ma'am.

Q And why did you set up the Proton mail account?

A It seemed like it was a time where commercial -- or not commercial.
It seemed like a time where regular email accounts were being hacked into, and |
just didn't want anyone to look at my email address.

Q Did someone ask you to set that up, or did you just happen to know
about Proton mail?

A Peter told me to set it up.

Q Did he explain why he wanted you to set it up?

A He was -- | think it was for investment reasons. He just knew
someone who was an investor in Proton mail, and he told a bunch of -- | don't
have any record of this, but he told a bunch of people he knew to set it up.

Q Would it ring a bell to know that Michael Flynn or Flynn Intel Group
recommended that you set up these accounts?

A No, not to my recollection.

Q One of the first emails we received from you is an exchange between
yourself and [EI from the House Oversight Committee. Did you ever
speak with

A Yes, | believe | did.

Q Have you spoken with other congressional committees?

A | have spoken with the Senate Intelligence Committee, but I -- |
spoke with the lawyers, and | provided a written statement. | didn't speak with
anyone else.

Q Okay. Mr. Safron, in your -- when did you first meet Peter Smith?

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Q Okay.

A From 2015 to 2017, hardly a day went by that | didn't hear from Peter
via email or on the phone or in person, work.

2,

Q You spoke with him and communicated with him almost everyday?

A Yes, ma'am.

Q Were you aware if you spoke with him everyday of activities he was
involved --

A Wait. | wasn't saying that Peter talked to Flynn everyday. I'm

saying that | talked to Peter everyday.

Q | understand.

A | really -- | asked you to clarify it like three times. I'm sorry.
Q That is exactly how | understand what you just said.

A Okay. Okay.

Q So you spoke with Peter Smith almost on a daily basis?

A Correct.

Q So were you aware in all of these communications with Peter Smith
of his efforts to find these 33,000 emails that he believed were stolen from Hillary
Clinton's server?

A | was aware that he had some notion that they were out there. |
was not aware of his efforts to obtain them.

Q Did you read the Wall Street Journal article regarding Mr. Smith's
communications with the Wall Street Journal reporter?

A Yeah, Shane Harris.

Q Were you surprised when you read the article?

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pages about which States have gone to which party. Honestly, that's the only
thing that | actually did with the election, | mean, to my understanding. So --

Q Okay. | think my colleague has a question.

oY

Q Hi. it's and | just would like to backtrack to get there. So
you were at the tutoring service and you went -- so when you came to him, you
were their employee. They were paying you to do this, correct?

A They being Varsity Tutors?

Q Yes.

A If you mean that | was the employee of Varsity Tutors, yes.
,
ls someone speaking to you?
My dad.

Is he giving you your answers, or are you testifying?

> O F OD

No.
oY

Q Okay. So before we get to the 270ToWin, at some point in time did
you become an employee of Mr. Smith?

A No. | became an employee of Corporate Venture Alliances, LLC.

a

Q What is corporate -- what is this LLC?

A Corporate Venture Alliances, LLC, is incorporated in Delaware. It
had offices in Wilmington. It was the vehicle by which Peter and his colleagues
invested in various startups and kept tabs on various investing companies that

they had aligned with over the decades, through which Peter became a respected

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yourself, from your Proton mail account to Peter Smith and Matt Tait.

A Okay. | don't have access to that account.

Q Well, | will tell you about the email.

A Thank you.

Q It's from you, and it says, "Matt, here are some additional materials
we feel you may like to review." And then the first line is, quote, "Much public
attention is being given to the recovery of the 30,000 or so emails, which Secretary
Clinton said she deleted because their content was personal in nature."

And you go onto say that, you know, clear evidence exists, that various
individuals have obtained those emails. Do you recall sending that email to Matt
Tait?

A It probably was very soon after the phone call, but | don't really
remember when that was. But! do remember sending that, but | don't remember
ever hearing from him personally. Now, when | say that, that, you know, that |

sent was definitely in the administrative role.

Ho you have any questions?

| sd

a -:

Hust a couple.

HS going to turn it over to my colleague, J
a

Q Hey, Mr. Safron. [EEE again for the majority. Thanks on

behalf of the chairman and the committee for taking the time to speak with us
today. I'm not going to be that long at all.

A couple quick questions regarding your relationship with Peter Smith.

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EXECUTIVE SESSION

PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

TELEPHONE INTERVIEW OF: JONATHAN SAFRON

Thursday, October 12, 2017

Washington, D.C.

The interview in the above matter was held in Room HVC-304, the Capitol,

commencing at: 4:20 p.m.

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A | would say | was really surprised, because | spoke with Mr. Harris
too, and he didn't really tell me what was going to happen, and he just kept asking
me to explain my side of the story. And especially as this was very soon after
Peter had died, and | didn't know why, | was very reluctant to go in the press about
anything.

And then the story came out, and | was mentioned in it. So then later |
found out that Shane Harris' main source was Matt Tait, and that was more -- it
made more sense. But until | found that out, | was confused, yes, and surprised.

Q Were you surprised that Mr. Smith spoke to a reporter, or were you
surprised at the content of what Mr. Smith communicated?

A Oh, no, | was surprised at the content.

Q So you'd never heard of any of those things?

A Sorry. Peter would love to, like, talk in the press. He was used to
working the media, so | was not surprised that he would want to self-aggrandize.

Q Why would he do that so long after the election? Why wouldn't he
have done that earlier then?

A Do what?

Q Go to the press?

A Talk to a reporter?

Q Right.

A No reporter had spoken with him. | mean, actually the reporters
from the New York Times spoke with him during the election cycle about how
Peter's emails were hacked. So she actually -- in response to your question, he
did talk to the press earlier.

Q Were you aware of activities by Russia-linked hackers who were

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place.

| didn't have any conversations with him. | may have been on emails with
him, but | don't remember.

Q We are in a receipt of a number of emails actually from Mr. Tait
surrounding his communications with both yourself and Mr. Smith. Is there any
reason why you did not provide those emails to us?

A | don't know if | got them.

Q Would you be willing to go back and take a look at your email
accounts to see if you have additional responsive documents related to our
investigation?

A Yeah, | will look.

Q Because we do have emails that are actually from you to Mr.

A Tait. Could you tell me what they said?

Q I'm not going to go into Mr. Tait's emails, but they are certainly
emails from you passing on materials related to the activities that you were
involved in.

So would you be willing to go back and take a look at your emails and see if
you have those as well?

A Sure, | will look.

Q Did you ever communicate with retired Lieutenant General Michael

Flynn or his son Michael G. Flynn?

No, ma'am.
Q Have you ever heard of them?
A Yes, ma'am.
Q How did General Flynn fit into Mr. Smith's activities?

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KLS or Mr. Smith's colleague?

A No, ma'am.

Q Did he ever present you with a nondisclosure?

A No, ma'am.

Q And did you -- | guess you worked with John Szobocsan. Is that
tight?

A No, it's not right, ma'am. It's Szobocsan.

Q Szobocsan.

A Correct.

Q Okay. He also works for Corporate Venture Alliance?

A Correct. To the best of my knowledge, he was one of the members
of the LLC. And to the best of my knowledge, he was the other member of KLS,
along with Peter. | might be wrong about that though.

Q What was your understanding of the reason KLS was formed?

A | don't have any understanding. | mean, | think Peter wanted to feel
like he was doing something with the election, having been a Republican for his
whole life. And | think he wanted to, you know, just kind of feel like he was doing
something, and he just wanted to make a company. And | didn't know why.
That's my answer.

Q What is the extent of your communications with Matt Tait regarding
Mr. Smith's activities?

A So initially, when | was talking to other -- the Senate, for example,
and I guess the Wall Street Journal reporter, | told them that that | had never
even spoken with him, with Tait. | believe though that one time | sat in on a call

with Peter and Matt Tait, and | didn't remember what it was about or when it took

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A

16
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Did you ever work with Mr. Johnson or talk with him?

He tried to get Peter to invest in his company and made a trip to

Chicago, and | met him for about 5 minutes, Charles Johnson. And if I'm not

mistaken, Pax is his business partner, Charles Johnson, but | never met him at all.

That was -- also, just to clarify, that was probably in fall of 2015, so that was

very early on in my knowing Peter. I've -- now that | know who Charles Johnson

is, | would have probably run out of the room.

Q

Mr. Johnson is actually quoted as saying, regarding Peter Smith, he

said, quote, "The magnitude of what he was trying to do was kind of impressive.

He had people running around Europe. He had people talking to Guccifer."

Do you recall who Mr. Smith had working in Europe?

on Fr Dp FDO Fr |O

A

Not at all. That's very interesting to know. I've never heard that.
Did you personally ever communicate with Guccifer 2.0?

Never.

Do you know anyone who did?

No, ma'am.

Do you have a Twitter handle?

Not at the moment.

Have you ever had a Twitter handle?

| had one that -- when | was in college that | deleted, which a

reporter for Politico told me that was now tweeting Russian, but | didn't do that.

And | got rid of the account in 2014.

Q
A

What was that Twitter handle?
| think it was |. If it's not, then | might be mistaken, but |

think that was it.

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UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

see you, we ask that you answer verbally. If you forget to do this, you might be
reminded to do so. You may also be asked to spell certain terms or unusual
phrases.

Consistent with the committee's rules of procedure, you may wish to -- and
will have a reasonable opportunity to inspect the transcript of this interview in order
to determine whether your answers were correctly transcribed. The transcript will
remain in the committee's custody, and the committee also reserves the right to
request you return for additional questions should the need arise.

The process for the interview is as follows: The minority will be given
45 minutes to ask questions, then the majority will be given 45 minutes to ask
questions. Immediately thereafter, we will take a short break if you wish. After
which, the minority will be given 15 minutes to ask questions, and the majority will
be given 15 minutes to ask questions. These round will continue until the
questions have expired.

These time limits will be strictly adhered to by all sides with no extensions
being granted. Time will be kept for each portion of the interview with warnings
given at the 5 and 1-minute mark respectively.

To ensure confidentiality, we ask that you do not discuss the interview with
anyone else. Our record today will reflect that you have not been compelled to
appear. You are reminded that it is unlawful to deliberately provide false
information to Members of Congress or staff.

Lastly, we will swear you in so this interview can be under oath. Though
we cannot see you, we ask that you raise your right hand and be sworn.

Mr. Safron, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing

but the truth?

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working to find Secretary Clinton's emails?
A No, ma'am.
cy

Q Did you search -- this is Linda again. Did you search WikiLeaks
regarding the emails that had been disseminated, published by WikiLeaks of
Secretary Clinton's emails?

A | believe | looked at them for personal reasons. | mean --

Q So you read --

A Sorry.

Q Okay. You read Hillary Clinton's emails for personal reasons, and
did you tell Mr. Smith this?

A It was -- oh, no. | remember | wanted to look -- | just had seen that
many of the emails were like, “Print this," and it reminded me of something that
Peter would send to me, kind of. | just thought it was funny, | mean, how
like -- that | connected with that personally. And | told Peter, like, there's so many
of these emails that just say, "Print." | don't know.

oY

Q So, Jonathan, | just want to reference an email that you sent to Peter
Smith on October 31,2016. Do you have a copy of the emails that you provided
to us?

A | remember them. | could look at it if --

Q So you address all in the email to Mr. Smith. Can you tell me who
"all" is?

A No. | don't recall.

Q Do you recall what the subject line of that email is?

UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

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UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

HE, kay. Good afternoon, Jonathan.

This is a transcribed interview of Mr. Jonathan Safron. Thank you for
speaking to us today. For the record, as | said, i'n senior counsel for
the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence for the majority.

Before we begin, | wanted to state a few things for the record. The
questioning will be conducted by staff. During the course of this interview, staff
may ask questions during their allotted time period. Some questions may seem
basic, but that is because we need to clearly establish facts and understand the
situation.

Please do not assume we know any facts you have previously disclosed as
part of any other investigation or review.

During the course of this interview, we will take any breaks that you desire.

We do ask that you give complete and fulsome replies to questions based
on your best recollections. If a question is unclear or you are uncertain in your
response, please let us know. And if you do not know the answer to a question or
cannot remember, simply say so.

This entire interview will be conducted at the unclassified level. You are
entitled to have a lawyer present for this interview, and you have informed us you
have selected not to. You have also informed us that your father is in the office
with you.

As | said, the interview will be transcribed. There is a reporter here with us
in Washington making a record of these proceedings so we can easily consult a
written compilation of your answers.

Because the reporter cannot record gestures, and in this case can't even

UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

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UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

A Okay.

Q | don't -- | never had the opportunity to meet him, so -- when you met
him in 2015, what were the circumstances? Like how did you come to meet him?

A Sure. Sol currently am a law student, and | was not in law school
yet, and | was looking for a job. And | was employed through a tutoring service
known as Varsity Tutors. | think I'm still employed by them, but | get their emails.

But | was working with fifth graders and younger on test prep. And
one day | saw in my inbox that Peter Smith needed help and basically with like
basic computer things. Like, the first day | met him, | helped him set up his
LinkedIn profile. So that was the circumstance.

Q |see. And then did Mr. Smith essentially hire you to help him with
computer things?

A | want to just be really clear that he just didn't know how to use his
internet. Like, he didn't know how to use LinkedIn, and he didn't know how to use
this dictation software called Dragon. | think it was Dragon.

Q | totally believe you.

A So he just wanted me to show him those basic things at first.

Q Sure. 1100 percent believe you. He's probably about the same
level as my own mother.

A No worries.

Q And so you helped him set up his LinkedIn account. At what point
did you become involved in some of the activities in the 2016 election?

A So | think, to my recollection, | showed Peter the website
270ToWin.Com in spring 2016. | think that was the first time that Peter and |

spoke about the 2016 election. And | printed out for him a bunch of Wikipedia

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No. Hold on. Could | just look? Sorry.
Yeah, go ahead. Look at it.

A Okay. Do you remember which document this was in the ones that |
sent?

Q I'm looking at an email dated Monday, October 31, 2016, at 6:31
a.m.

A Hold on. Oh, yeah, | see it. State Department on a single PC.

Q Could you tell me about what this email is and what type of work you
were doing for Mr. Smith?

A Let's see. Sorry. I'm reading the --

Q Take your time.

A Well, this was part of Peter's political analysis that he really honed
towards the later parts of his life via the internet. And it was an exercise in, |
think, | would say, like, how is the FBI functioning. It was maybe a
tongue-in-cheek criticism of the FBI must not have done all of the work. It was
just a commentary on the FBI's search and, yeah.

Q If it's a commentary, why did you conclude by saying, "We very much
welcome observations"?

A Observations on the writing style. 1 actually don't know.

Q It almost looks like you were drafting this email for Mr. Smith to send
to someone. So I'm just trying to understand, like --

A That looks -- that's entirely possible.

Q So you just don't remember?
A Yeah.
Q Boy.

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KLS or Mr. Smith's colleague?

A No, ma'am.

Q Did he ever present you with a nondisclosure?

A No, ma‘am.

Q And did you -- | guess you worked with John Szobocsan. Is that
right?

A No, it's not right, ma'am. It's Szobocsan.

Q Szobocsan.

A Correct.

Q Okay. He also works for Corporate Venture Alliance?

A Correct. To the best of my knowledge, he was one of the members
of the LLC. And to the best of my knowledge, he was the other member of KLS,
along with Peter. | might be wrong about that though.

Q What was your understanding of the reason KLS was formed?

A I don't have any understanding. | mean, | think Peter wanted to feel
like he was doing something with the election, having been a Republican for his
whole life. And | think he wanted to, you know, just kind of feel like he was doing
something, and he just wanted to make a company. And | didn't know why.
That's my answer.

Q What is the extent of your communications with Matt Tait regarding
Mr. Smith's activities?

A So initially, when | was talking to other -- the Senate, for example,
and | guess the Wall Street Journal reporter, | told them that that | had never
even spoken with him, with Tait. | believe though that one time | sat in on a call

with Peter and Matt Tait, and | didn't remember what it was about or when it took

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place.

| didn't have any conversations with him. | may have been on emails with
him, but | don't remember.

Q We are in a receipt of a number of emails actually from Mr. Tait
surrounding his communications with both yourself and Mr. Smith. Is there any
reason why you did not provide those emails to us?

A | don't know if | got them.

Q Would you be willing to go back and take a look at your email
accounts to see if you have additional responsive documents related to our
investigation?

A Yeah, | will look.

Q Because we do have emails that are actually from you to Mr.

A Tait. Could you tell me what they said?

Q I'm not going to go into Mr. Tait's emails, but they are certainly
emails from you passing on materials related to the activities that you were
involved in.

So would you be willing to go back and take a look at your emails and see if
you have those as well?

A Sure, | will look.

Q Did you ever communicate with retired Lieutenant General Michael
Flynn or his son Michael G. Flynn?

A No, ma'am.

Q Have you ever heard of them?

A Yes, ma'am.
Q

How did General Flynn fit into Mr. Smith's activities?

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MR. SAFRON: Well, thank you for allowing me to do this over the phone.
| really appreciate it. | actually have a meeting with a professor at 5:45 our time,
and it's really a great benefit to be able to help the committee and to be able to go
to law school. So thank you.

| Thanks for your time. And if we need anything, we will get
back in touch with you, and best of luck in law school.

MR. SAFRON: Thank you.

ME ©.

[Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

see you, we ask that you answer verbally. If you forget to do this, you might be
reminded to do so. You may also be asked to spell certain terms or unusual
phrases.

Consistent with the committee's rules of procedure, you may wish to -- and
will have a reasonable opportunity to inspect the transcript of this interview in order
to determine whether your answers were correctly transcribed. The transcript will
remain in the committee's custody, and the committee also reserves the right to
request you return for additional questions should the need arise.

The process for the interview is as follows: The minority will be given
45 minutes to ask questions, then the majority will be given 45 minutes to ask
questions. Immediately thereafter, we will take a short break if you wish. After
which, the minority will be given 15 minutes to ask questions, and the majority will
be given 15 minutes to ask questions. These round will continue until the
questions have expired.

These time limits will be strictly adhered to by all sides with no extensions
being granted. Time will be kept for each portion of the interview with warnings
given at the 5 and 1-minute mark respectively.

To ensure confidentiality, we ask that you do not discuss the interview with
anyone else. Our record today will reflect that you have not been compelled to
appear. You are reminded that it is unlawful to deliberately provide false
information to Members of Congress or staff.

Lastly, we will swear you in so this interview can be under oath. Though
we cannot see you, we ask that you raise your right hand and be sworn.

Mr. Safron, do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing

but the truth?

UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

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Q Okay.

A From 2015 to 2017, hardly a day went by that | didn't hear from Peter
via email or on the phone or in person, work.

oY

Q You spoke with him and communicated with him almost everyday?

A Yes, ma'am.

Q Were you aware if you spoke with him everyday of activities he was
involved --

A Wait. | wasn't saying that Peter talked to Flynn everyday. |'m
saying that | talked to Peter everyday.

Q | understand.
| really -- | asked you to clarify it like three times. I'm sorry.
That is exactly how | understand what you just said.
Okay. Okay.

So you spoke with Peter Smith almost on a daily basis?

> O F OD

Correct.

Q So were you aware in all of these communications with Peter Smith
of his efforts to find these 33,000 emails that he believed were stolen from Hillary
Clinton's server?

A | was aware that he had some notion that they were out there. |
was not aware of his efforts to obtain them.

Q Did you read the Wall Street Journal article regarding Mr. Smith's
communications with the Wall Street Journal reporter?

A Yeah, Shane Harris.

Q Were you surprised when you read the article?

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Q So let me understand. You closed that account, or did you stop
using it?

A Yes, ma'am. | was doing activities related to my college, and |
graduated from college and | quit the account. And | thought | deactivated it right
after | graduated.

Q But you didn't deactivate it. Is that right?

A What?

Q I'm trying to understand --

A No. | mean, I'm saying that, to the best of my knowledge, |
deactivated it. And the fact that somebody else took it actually lends credence to
that, because | am not using that account. And | hadn't even thought about it until
earlier this summer when the Politico reporter told me about it.

Q So your account was EE?

A It was when | was in college.

Q How do you think it was taken over by someone who speaks
Russian?

A That is completely out of my knowledge. I'm really sorry. I can't
answer that. | have no idea.

Q What did Mr. Smith tell you about his connections with the Trump
campaign?

A | don't know. | mean, he -- could you be more specific in your
question, | guess?

Q__- It's nota specific question. The question is, what did Mr. Smith tell
you about his connections with the Trump campaign?

A | don't really know. | mean, he has said that he knew Sam Clovis,

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UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE’

described him as a dark web expert. Do you recall talking with Mr. Smith about
Mr. O'Brien's assistance?

A No.

Q Did you ever communicate with Eric York?

A Yes.

Q Tell me about Eric York.

A Okay. So! don't remember exactly when this was, but there was
the denial of service — like DOS attack, and that happened when our company,
Corporate Venture Alliances, was interested in the internet of things, doing some
sort of investment with the company. And Eric York got on the phone with John,
Peter, and me, and we spoke with him about the security of home devices like
smart refrigerators.

And | know that Eric worked at IBM, | think it was in Atlanta, and I'm
LinkedIn connected with him.

Q Are you aware of his involvement searching the web for Secretary
Clinton's emails with Mr. Smith?

A No, ma'am.

Q When is the last time you have been in contact with Mr. York?

A | think that | emailed him pretty soon after that, after our phone
conversation with a Law 360 article about some sort of internet of things thing.
And | think he responded to me, but it was completely unrelated to the election.

Q Two of the individuals reportedly involved in Mr. Smith's activities to
track down Secretary Clinton's emails are Charles Johnson and Pax Dickerson.
Do you recall these gentlemen?

A | recall Charles Johnson but not Pax.

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15


17
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Q So let me understand. You closed that account, or did you stop
using it?

A Yes, ma'am. | was doing activities related to my college, and |
graduated from college and | quit the account. And | thought | deactivated it right
after | graduated.

Q But you didn't deactivate it. Is that right?

A What?

Q I'm trying to understand --

A No. | mean, I'm saying that, to the best of my knowledge, |
deactivated it. And the fact that somebody else took it actually lends credence to
that, because | am not using that account. And I hadn't even thought about it until
earlier this summer when the Politico reporter told me about it.

Q So your account was ES?

A It was when | was in college. -

Q How do you think it was taken over by someone who speaks
Russian?

A That is completely out of my knowledge. I'm really sorry. | can't
answer that. | have no idea.

Q What did Mr. Smith tell you about his connections with the Trump
campaign?

A I don't know. | mean, he -- could you be more specific in your
question, | guess?

Q It's not a specific question. The question is, what did Mr. Smith tell
you about his connections with the Trump campaign?

A | don't really know. | mean, he has said that he knew Sam Clovis,

UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

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UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

HE, ©kay. Good afternoon, Jonathan.

This is a transcribed interview of Mr. Jonathan Safron. Thank you for
speaking to us today. For the record, as | said, |'m [EE senior counsel for
the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence for the majority.

Before we begin, | wanted to state a few things for the record. The
questioning will be conducted by staff. During the course of this interview, staff
may ask questions during their allotted time period. Some questions may seem
basic, but that is because we need to clearly establish facts and understand the
situation.

Please do not assume we know any facts you have previously disclosed as
part of any other investigation or review.

During the course of this interview, we will take any breaks that you desire.

We do ask that you give complete and fulsome replies to questions based
on your best recollections. If a question is unclear or you are uncertain in your
response, please let us know. And if you do not know the answer to a question or
cannot remember, simply say so.

This entire interview will be conducted at the unclassified level. You are
entitled to have a lawyer present for this interview, and you have informed us you
have selected not to. You have also informed us that your father is in the office
with you.

As | said, the interview will be transcribed. There is a reporter here with us
in Washington making a record of these proceedings so we can easily consult a
written compilation of your answers.

Because the reporter cannot record gestures, and in this case can't even

UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

PROPERTY OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


10
UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE

businessman.
ae

Q So then Mr. Smith was the CEO of this company?

A No. He was the chairman.

Q Okay. So he was the chairman. And you were paid by Corporate
Venture Alliances?

A That is right.

Q And you were -- and was this in a full-time capacity?

A No, because | eventually starting going to law school, and | didn't
work full time. But! worked, | don't know, part time.

Q Okay.

|

Q When did you first hear about -- there is another LLC called KLS
Research. When did you first hear about that LLC for Mr. Smith?

A | think it was in fall 2016. And -- so you guys said to let you know of
the basic facts, so he told me the initials were Keep the Spread Low. And then he
went with John Szobocsan, who was the other person who worked in the Chicago
office.

And then he came back, and it was KLS, LLC. So if you were following
that, Peter told me it was going to be called one thing and then -- I'm just saying,
like, | wasn't involved in starting it. All| ever heard about it was the initials, why
they were named that. And then that wasn't even it.

Q Were you ever paid from KLS?

A No, ma'am.

Q Did you ever sign a nondisclosure agreement with Peter Smith or

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During your relationship with Peter Smith, did you have any information to suggest
that Mr. Smith was involved in any illegal activity?

A No, sir.

Q During your relationship with Mr. Smith, do you have any information
to suggest or know that Mr. Smith acted as a go-between, between the Trump
campaign and the Russian Government to help him get elected?

A No, sir.

Q Do you have any information in your possession or that you have
come across to suggest that the Donald J. Trump campaign for President
colluded, coordinated, or conspired with the Russian Government during the
elections?

A No, sir.

Q Do you have any information in your possession that you, Mr. Smith, Mr.
Tait, or anyone of the other individuals that you communicated with or for on Mr.
Smith's behalf conducted that role, that is to say, they acted as a go-between
between the Trump campaign and the Russian Government during the 2016
election?

A No, sir.

Q And in the entire universe of your relationship with Mr. Smith,

Mr. Tait, and any of the other individuals referenced herein, do you have any
information to show that any of those individuals, including yourself, colluded,
conspired, or coordinated with the Russian Government on behalf of Donald
Trump and/or his associates to have him elected?

A No, sir.

WE don't have anything else.

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Appearances:

For the PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE:

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No. Hold on. Could | just look? Sorry.

Yeah, go ahead. Look at it.

Okay. Do you remember which document this was in the ones that |
sent?

Q I'm looking at an email dated Monday, October 31, 2016, at 6:31
a.m.

A Hold on. Oh, yeah, | see it. State Department on a single PC.

Q Could you tell me about what this email is and what type of work you
were doing for Mr. Smith?

A Let's see. Sorry. I'm reading the --

Q Take your time.

A Well, this was part of Peter's political analysis that he really honed
towards the later parts of his life via the internet. And it was an exercise in, |
think, | would say, like, how is the FBI functioning. It was maybe a
tongue-in-cheek criticism of the FBI must not have done all of the work. It was
just a commentary on the FBI's search and, yeah.

Q If it's a commentary, why did you conclude by saying, "We very much
welcome observations"?

A Observations on the writing style. | actually don't know.

Q It almost looks like you were drafting this email for Mr. Smith to send
to someone. So I'm just trying to understand, like --

A That looks -- that's entirely possible.

Q So you just don't remember?
A Yeah.
Q Boy.

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2016?

A No, ma'am.

Q And why did you set up the Proton mail account?

A It seemed like it was a time where commercial -- or not commercial.
It seemed like a time where regular email accounts were being hacked into, and |
just didn't want anyone to look at my email address.

Q Did someone ask you to set that up, or did you just happen to know
about Proton mail?

A Peter told me to set it up.

Q Did he explain why he wanted you to set it up?

A He was -- | think it was for investment reasons. He just knew
someone who was an investor in Proton mail, and he told a bunch of -- | don't
have any record of this, but he told a bunch of people he knew to set it up.

Q Would it ring a bell to know that Michael Flynn or Flynn Intel Group
recommended that you set up these accounts?

A No, not to my recollection.

Q One of the first emails we received from you is an exchange between
yourself and | from the House Oversight Committee. Did you ever
speak with

A Yes, | believe | did.

Q Have you spoken with other congressional committees?

A | have spoken with the Senate Intelligence Committee, but | -- |
spoke with the lawyers, and | provided a written statement. | didn't speak with
anyone else.

Q Okay. Mr. Safron, in your -- when did you first meet Peter Smith?

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described him as a dark web expert. Do you recall talking with Mr. Smith about
Mr. O'Brien's assistance?

A No.

Q Did you ever communicate with Eric York?

A Yes.

Q Tell me about Eric York.

A Okay. So don't remember exactly when this was, but there was
the denial of service -- like DOS attack, and that happened when our company,
Corporate Venture Alliances, was interested in the internet of things, doing some
sort of investment with the company. And Eric York got on the phone with John,
Peter, and me, and we spoke with him about the security of home devices like
smart refrigerators. ;

And | know that Eric worked at IBM, | think it was in Atlanta, and I'm
Linkedin connected with him.

Q Are you aware of his involvement searching the web for Secretary
Clinton's emails with Mr. Smith?

A. No, ma'am.

Q When is the last time you have been in contact with Mr. York?

A | think that | emailed him pretty soon after that, after our phone
conversation with a Law 360 article about some sort of internet of things thing.
And | think he responded to me, but it was completely unrelated to the election.

Q Two of the individuals reportedly involved in Mr. Smith's activities to
track down Secretary Clinton's emails are Charles Johnson and Pax Dickerson.
Do you recall these gentlemen?

A ! recall Charles Johnson but not Pax.

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EXECUTIVE SESSION

PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

TELEPHONE INTERVIEW OF: JONATHAN SAFRON

Thursday, October 12, 2017

Washington, D.C.

The interview in the above matter was held in Room HVC-304, the Capitol,

commencing at: 4:20 p.m.

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| don't know.
Mr. Smith never talked about it?

I'm sorry?

Oo Fr oO >

Did Mr. Smith ever talk about Lieutenant General Flynn?

A Yes, but | don't remember exactly what he said. | do remember it
was more at the beginning of our -- like when | knew Peter, and | don't remember
him talking about him related to the election at all.

Q One of the documents that you provided to us appears to be related
to KLS Research. Do you recall that document?

A Yes, ma'am.

Where did that document come from?

A From Peter.

Q Did you help him put this together?

A Not to my knowledge.

Q You wouldn't have helped him with any links, internet links, links to
bios?

A Oh, | remember that he provided me with the document, like he

wrote it. And then | -- he wasn't good enough with PDFs to put links on it, so |
overlaid it in this program. | put hyperlinks on top of what he wrote. So! guess |

should have said when you said put together, | did help with that part, but | didn't

write it.
Q Did you read it?
A Sorry?
Q Did you read the document?
A Did | see it?

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A | don't -- | remember writing it. | don't remember, like, why | said the _
last part or to whom | was -- like, | sent it to Peter | see in the subject line, or to the
"To."

Q So I'm going to turn to another email, from John Szobocsan to Peter
Smith, and yourself, dated Thursday, October 6, 2016. Subject is, "There must
be more to the story."

A Wait, hold on. Sorry. Okay.

Q Do you recall this email?

A | recall -- yeah.

Q So it appears that you all are looking through, you know, WikiLeaks
and emails. Is that -- is that fair to say, that was part of what you all were working
on?

A | wouldn't include myself in the you all. _| see myself in the subject of
this. | would say, the reason is, | would sometimes be with Peter when John
wasn't, and | would just tell Peter, hey, look at your email.

So I'm not trying to deny what you're saying completely, but I'm saying that |
wasn't very much involved in it, except maybe in an administrative role for Peter.

Q Okay. Fair enough.

Now, if you had sent Matt Tait emails, would that also have been sort of in your
role just as an administrative person basically working for Mr. Smith?

A Absolutely.

Q Okay. Well, if that's the extent of your role, I'm not sure | have
anymore questions. | | do you?

Ya

Q I'm just curious, have you ever met Donald Trump?

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yourself, from your Proton mail account to Peter Smith and Matt Tait.

A Okay. | don't have access to that account.

Q Well, | will tell you about the email.

A Thank you.

Q It's from you, and it says, "Matt, here are some additional materials
we feel you may like to review." And then the first line is, quote, "Much public
attention is being given to the recovery of the 30,000 or so emails, which Secretary
Clinton said she deleted because their content was personal in nature."

And you go onto say that, you know, clear evidence exists, that various
individuals have obtained those emails. Do you recall sending that email to Matt
Tait?

A It probably was very soon after the phone call, but | don't really
remember when that was. But do remember sending that, but | don't remember
ever hearing from him personally. Now, when | say that, that, you know, that |

sent was definitely in the administrative role.

| Do you have any questions?

|

a -:

| Just a couple.

HS» going to turn it over to my colleague,

’

Q Hey, Mr. Safron. [EEE again for the majority. Thanks on
behalf of the chairman and the committee for taking the time to speak with us
today. I'm not going to be that long at all.

A couple quick questions regarding your relationship with Peter Smith.

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Q Did you ever work with Mr. Johnson or talk with him?

A He tried to get Peter to invest in his company and made a trip to
Chicago, and | met him for about 5 minutes, Charles Johnson. And if I'm not
mistaken, Pax is his business partner, Charles Johnson, but | never met him at all.

That was -- also, just to clarify, that was probably in fall of 2015, so that was
very early on in my knowing Peter. I've -- now that | know who Charles Johnson
is, | would have probably run out of the room.

Q Mr. Johnson is actually quoted as saying, regarding Peter Smith, he
said, quote, "The magnitude of what he was trying to do was kind of impressive.
He had people running around Europe. He had people talking to Guccifer."

Do you recall who Mr. Smith had working in Europe?

Not at all. That's very interesting to know. I've never heard that.
Did you personally ever communicate with Guccifer 2.0?

Never.

Do you know anyone who did?

No, ma'am.

Do you have a Twitter handle?

Not at the moment.

on rD F DH F ODO PY

Have you ever had a Twitter handle?

>

| had one that -- when | was in college that | deleted, which a
reporter for Politico told me that was now tweeting Russian, but | didn't do that.
And | got rid of the account in 2014.

Q What was that Twitter handle?

A | think it was |. If it's not, then | might be mistaken, but |

think that was it.

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