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MS. GRAFF: | don't have the itinerary in front of me.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if the Agalarov family was a part of that
Vegas itinerary?

MS. GRAFF: I'm not aware of it.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know where Mr. Trump stayed when he was in
Las Vegas?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my knowledge, he stayed at our hotel.

MR. SWALWELL: Right. So, if he was going to a city where he had a
hotel, was it most likely that he would stay at the hotel property?

MS. GRAFF: Well, it would make the most sense for him to do that.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know Paula Shugart, who that is?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | do.

MR. SWALWELL: How do you know her?

MS. GRAFF: She's the president of Miss Universe Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: And when did you first get to know Ms. Shugart?

MS. GRAFF: When she was hired.

MR. SWALWELL: And did you work with Ms. Shugart for the Miss USA
Pageant?

MS. GRAFF: Which one.

MR. SWALWELL: I'm sorry. | was still talking about Vegas, 2013 Vegas
pageant.

MS. GRAFF: As a matter of course of business in my position, | most likely
did.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Rachel Frimer? Do you know who Rachel

Frimer is?

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can take a break.

MR. FUTERFAS:. Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: So you have this phone conversation with Ms. Miller, and
then what did you decide to do? Did you call the reporters back?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you discuss with The Trump Organization and
Ms. Miller or anyone else how you should respond to these inquiries?

MS. GRAFF: | believe | may have spoken with Alan Garten as well. And
he said go --

MR. FUTERFAS: No, excuse me, privilege.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you speak with anyone else other than counsel?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: And how long after the press calls did you speak with
Mr. Garten?

MS. GRAFF: The press calls? They were not calls. They were emails.

MR. SCHIFF: I'msorry. You're right, absolutely right.

Was it the same day?

MS. GRAFF: Probably.

MR. SCHIFF: And did anyone else, other than counsel, discuss this with
you?

MS. GRAFF: No, they did not.

MR. SCHIFF: So you never discussed it with Don Jr. or any of the other
participants in the meeting?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not. | just went on my vacation and just went silent

in terms of media.

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subsidiaries, or would that have been handled by other people?

MS. GRAFF: It would have been handled by other people.

MR. SCHIFF: If! could take a look at Bates stamp 867.

Just by way of example, if the Agalarovs were interested in one of the Trump

subsidiaries or furniture subsidiary, would that go through you at all?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall that ever happening.

| Five minutes, Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall when Michael Cohen joined The Trump

Organizati
MS.
MR

than that?

MS.
MR.

Trump?

MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.

Organizati

MS.

jon?

. GRAFF:

. SCHIFF:

GRAFF:

GRAFF:

GRAFF:

GRAFF:

GRAFF:

jon?

. GRAFF:

SCHIFF:

SCHIFF:

SCHIFF:

SCHIFF:

SCHIFF:

| can't give you a specific date. | don't recall a specific date.

Would it have been within the last 5 or 10 years or longer

Likely.

And did you know him prior to his employment with Mr.

No, | did not.

And how about Alan Garten?

What about Alan Garten? Did | know him?

When did he join The Trump Organization?

Oh, | can't give you a specific date. | have no idea.
Also within 5 or 10 years of now?

That sounds about right.

And did you know him prior to his joining The Trump

No, I did not.

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Appearances

For the PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE:

For RHONA GRAFF:

ALAN S. FUTERFAS

RICHARD F. BRUECKNER

BETTINA SCHEIN

ELLEN RESNICK

ELEANOR BUSE

LAW OFFICES OF ALAN S. FUTERFAS
565 Fifth Avenue, 7th Floor

New York, New York 10017

KARINA V. LYNCH
WILLIAMS & JENSEN, PLLC
701 8th Street N.W.

Suite 500

Washington, D.C. 20001

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something. | don't think that's an appropriate question. | object to the form of the
question.

MR. SCHIFF: Knowing what you do of the relationship between the father
and son, would you expect the son to make a significant business or campaign
decision without consultation with his father?

MS. GRAFF: It depends on the particular situation.

MR. SCHIFF: So there are particular situations you can imagine where the
son would make a significant business decision without consulting with his father?

MR. FUTERFAS: Again, | object to the form of the question. What this
witness would imagine or not imagine, again, we're on the tangents of pure
speculation and | don't think it's an appropriate question. I'll permit her to answer it,
but my objection should be noted for the record.

MR. SCHIFF: Please read back the question.

[The reporter read back the record as requested.]

MS. GRAFF: It would -- | don't -- significant business decision? | don't
know. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: My colleague asked you about a money laundering and
gambling ring that was operating out of Trump Tower. Do you recall when those
indictments were returned?

MS. GRAFF: | have no knowledge of it.

MR. SCHIFF: This was big news in New York City when a Russian
international crime ring operating out of Trump Tower was busted. You have no
recollection of that happening?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SCHIFF: And undoubtedly press organizations would have called to

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MR. SWALWELL: While Mr. Trump was in Moscow in 2013, he stated to
the press: | have plans for the establishment. | have business in Russia. Now |
am in talks with several Russian companies to establish this skyscraper. Do you
know which Russian companies Mr. Trump was speaking with while he was in
Russia?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump discuss in your presence or are you
aware of any conversations he had prior to going to Russia about establishing
business in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: I'm not aware.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something that you would have been aware of if
he was trying to do that?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily.

MR. SWALWELL: But, again, as somebody who reads Mr. Trump's emails
and is the first screener of the calls to Mr. Trump, at that time, you would've had a
pretty good idea if business relationships were in development. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily.

MR. SWALWELL: Why wouldn't you have?

MS. GRAFF: Because there were other people in the company that were
also, you know, dealing with other people, and they could approach him directly.
As | stated, I'm not the only person who communicated with him directly.

MR. SWALWELL: Was that Moscow trip an important trip to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: The trip to the Miss Universe Pageant?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: If it was convenient for his schedule, he usually would attend

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MR. SCHIFF: Same question during the campaign, did any Russian
national communicate with Mr. Trump during the campaign in writing or in person or
by phone?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. FUTERFAS: Just being clear, | don't know if, Congressman Schiff,
you're including or excluding the Agalarovs, if they are falling into the definition of
Russian nationals or not. I'm not sure if they are.

That's not something | don't know that we have definitive information on, but |
think we should at least make that clear since that -- those are individuals that we
have been speaking about for a while.

MR. SCHIFF: The Agalarovs are Russians, and, yes, my questions do
include them.

MS. GRAFF: Okay. | thought we'd already discussed them, so | thought
you meant over and apart from them.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. And | would also emphasize that I'm not confining this
to people whose citizenship papers you have examined. So, if there's someone
you think may be a Russian national, please let us know.

So let me ask then, apart from the Agalarovs, either prior to the campaign or
during the campaign, did any Russian nationals communicate with Mr. Trump by
emailing you or calling you or meeting with him in person, to your knowledge?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And during the transition period, did any Russian nationals
email you to reach out to communicate or set up a meeting with Mr. Trump?

MR. FUTERFAS: Excuse me.

[Discussion off the record.]

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MR. SCHIFF: So, when you got hired, what year was that?

MS. GRAFF: That was in October of 1987.

MR. SCHIFF: And what were your responsibilities then?

MS. GRAFF: | was a junior assistant. | was making and placing calls,
taking dictation. Just doing whatever needed to be done in the course of a day. It
was executive administrative assistant work.

MR. SCHIFF: And how much interaction did you have with Mr. Trump at
that time?

MS. GRAFF: Oh, very frequent, very frequent, because my desk was right
outside his office.

MR. SCHIFF: And the junior assistants that you mentioned before, the two
others --

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SCHIFF: -- are they doing now the work that you were doing then?

MS. GRAFF: Hardly. They're no longer with the company.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, last year, were they doing the same kind of work that
you did when you started?

MS. GRAFF: Pretty much, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And so, over the last 30 or so years, you probably had more
contact during the workday with Mr. Trump than just about anybody else? ;

MS. GRAFF: | wouldn't say just about anybody else. It depended on what
was going on on that particular day.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm talking about cumulatively over those 30 years, and
on an average week when Mr. Trump was in the office, is there anyone else who

would have that level of interaction with Mr. Trump?

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Would people contact you if they were in contact with Mr. Trump about a
potential real estate sale? Is that something that has happened before?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily, no. {can't recall a specific instance.

MR. SWALWELL: And | understand "not necessarily," but does that mean
that sometimes that occurred?

MS. GRAFF: In this particular instance, there was most likely a broker on
the deal, and the broker may have spoken to Mr. Trump directly. That's not
something that | would get involved with.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, are you speculating or do you recall whether
or not you were contacted?

MS. GRAFF: I'm speculating.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay.

Don Jr. acknowledged publicly that in 2016 he was in communication with
WikiLeaks. Did you ever discuss or hear Don Jr. discussing his communications
with WikiLeaks?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever hear Donald Trump, his father, talk about
his son's conversations with WikiLeaks?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with Deutsche Bank?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | know the name.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever corresponded with or arranged for
Deutsche Bank individuals to meet with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | believe there were two people in New York that worked in

the Deutsche Bank branch here in New York that I'm familiar with. And I've known

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MS. GRAFF: | don't know. | mean, how many days are there, you know, in
that period. And whether he was in town or not, | can't answer that.

MR. SCHIFF: Was he a frequent presence during the transition at Trump
Tower?

MS. GRAFF: Probably no more so than any of the other people on the
transition team.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, | don't know how often other people in the transition
team were there. So how often is your best estimate of the number of times you
saw him in Trump Tower during the transition?

MS. GRAFF: | can't give you an accurate estimate.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you have a conversation with Mike Flynn?

MS. GRAFF: | did.

MR. SCHIFF: And what did you discuss?

MS. GRAFF: How are you, nice to meet you. We talked and chatted. You
know, it was very superficial.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever participate in any discussion between Mr. Flynn
and Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you ever present when the two of them were ina
meeting?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: So you were not privy to any conversation the two of them
had?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you ever privy to any conversations with Mr. Flynn

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York City. | mean, his life is just one celebrity after another.

MS. GRAFF: That's correct. That's correct.

MR. KING: So it wouldn't be unusual not to remember every movie star he
ever met or every world leader he ran into?

MS. GRAFF: Absolutely.

MR. KING: Presidents, Vice Presidents, Governors.

MS. GRAFF: That's correct.

MR. KING: Right. Yankee ballplayers. George Steinbrenner.

MS. GRAFF: That's correct.

MR. KING: Whoever came through Steinbrenner's box?

MS. GRAFF: You run the gamut, yes.

MR. KING: We could go through all of them. Atlantic City boxing matches.

MS. GRAFF: Those were the days.

MR. KING: Okay. | think it's just important to put that on the record. |
mean, if | met one of these guys, I'd remember it. But Mr. Trump is just part of a
whole cavalcade of celebrities.

MS. GRAFF: Right. He was a celebrity, and so a lot of people reached out
to him. He reached out to people. It was not uncommon to deal at that level with
many people.

MR. KING: Would you like a break before we yield back?

MR. FUTERFAS: | think we've gone -- let's see -- | guess we're breaking
about every 45, 50 minutes, something like that?

MR. KING: We've been here about 2 hours now.

MR. FUTERFAS: Okay. Yeah, we could take a 5-minute break. Sure.

Thank you.

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A No, | do not.

Hm handing you a second document, which is Bates stamped
DJTJROO245.

[Graff Exhibit No. 2
Was marked for identification.]
a

Q And this is an email from Rob Goldstone to you dated November 28,
2016.

A Yes, uh-huh.

Q The email from Goldstone says: Hi, Rhona. Aras Agalarov has
asked me to pass on this document in the hope that it can be passed on to the
appropriate team. If needed, a lawyer representing the case is in New York
currently and happy to meet with any member of his transition team. Best, Rob.

You forwarded it to Steve Bannon, said: "Hi, Steve: The PE" -- | assume
that means President-elect?

A Correct.

Q "Knows Aras well. Rob is his rep in the U.S. and sent this on. Not
sure how to proceed, if at all."

Do you recall this email?

A In preparation for this meeting, | do.

Q Do you recall getting any response to it from Mr. Bannon or anyone
else?

A No, | do not.

Do you recall what the subject matter of this email was?

A Do | recall the subject matter? There's a subject line: "For Mr.

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MS. GRAFF: There has been some communication. It's -- the way you're
phrasing it sounds like it's something that happened on a regular basis.

MR. SWALWELL: At least in 2015 and 2016, you agree that emails you've
looked at, they're communicating on a regular basis, right? Mr. Trump is receiving
paintings. He's getting books. He's getting newspaper articles.

MS. GRAFF: Painting. Painting.

MR. SWALWELL: So you do remember that it was a painting, not
paintings?

MS. GRAFF: I --

MR. SWALWELL: In preparation for today?

MS. GRAFF: In preparation for today. Thank you.

MR. SWALWELL: Got it. Let's pull that Bates stamp.

Hn minute, Mr. Swalwell.

MR. FUTERFAS: Are we looking at 404?

MR. SWALWELL: Let's look at 280.

[Graff Exhibit No. 6
Was marked for identification]

MR. SWALWELL: Do you have 280?

MS. GRAFF: [Reviewing.]

MR. SWALWELL: All right, Ms. Graff. You reviewed 280?

MS. GRAFF: Yes.

MR. SWALWELL: And in that email, it refers to a letter from Mr. Agalarov.
Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, it refers to a letter.

MR. SWALWELL: And it says: "The package was delivered very late, so

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think there was a question whether they were legitimate charities. And so | had to
go confirm that the check that was written was, indeed, Mr. Trump's check and that
was his signature.

MR. SWALWELL: When was that?

MS. GRAFF: Oh my gosh. Idon'tknow. Fifteen, maybe 20 years ago.

MR. SWALWELL: And when was the grand jury with Mr. Sharpton?

MS. GRAFF: No, that's what I'm referring to. That was 15, 20 years ago,
possibly.

MR. SWALWELL: And when was the charity issue?

MS. GRAFF: I don'tremember. | mean, it was -- there were charges
against Mr. Sharpton. | don't remember the specifics of it.

MR. SWALWELL: So how about in the last 5 years, have you been
deposed?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Going back to Mr. Sater, we talked about him. Did Mr.
Sater, other than communicating with Mr. Trump face-to-face, would he ever send
emails to you that he wanted passed along to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something you can check on for us?

MS. GRAFF: | -- | mean, our IT department could check on it, but --

MR. SWALWELL: Those are records that would still be kept?

MS. GRAFF: | would imagine. | don't know. | can't answer that, | don't
know.

MR. SWALWELL: To your knowledge, have any emails been deleted since

January of this year?

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MS. GRAFF: He is based in Las Vegas. And | don't know the nature of his
exact relationship with Mr. Trump, but they know each other.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know who Mr. Ruffin's wife is?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, Oleksandra No -- | don't know her full name.

MR. SWALWELL: Was she a former Miss Ukraine?

MS. GRAFF: That's my understanding.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if any of Mr. Trump's children went to the
Moscow trip?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller go?

MS. GRAFF: Again, | don't have the itinerary in front of me, but in all
likelihood he did.

MR. FUTERFAS: May we have a moment? Thank you.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. SWALWELL: Where did Mr. Trump stay when he was in Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: | don't have the itinerary in front of me, so | can't give you the
name of the hotel.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you recall in any way?

MS. GRAFF: A Russian name, no, | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, there are American-owned hotels in Moscow, right?

MS. GRAFF: Oh, was it the Four Seasons Moscow, | don't know. It
doesn't ring a bell.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he have a preference for hotels? Like my scheduler
knows that -- we're a Marriott family, so wherever | go, we try and rack up the points

in the Marriott. Did he have a preference for hotels?

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criminal activity?
A No, | do not.

HR Thank you, ma'am, appreciate it.

MS. GRAFF: You're welcome.

| Back over to the minority.

MR. FUTERFAS: Can | point -- do we have a break at some point?

H-“Vherever she wants.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yes, if we could take just a 5-minute break, that would be
great.

HF the record.

[Recess.]

MR. SCHIFF: Let me start by just a couple of followup questions. Our
understanding is that you began with The Trump Organization in October of 1987.
Mr. Gorbachev came to visit in December of '87. That would have been 2 months
into your employment with The Trump Organization. Does that refresh your
recollection at all as to when a head of state would have come to visit?

MS. GRAFF: No, it does not.

MR. SCHIFF: So you don't remember that visit at all?

MS. GRAFF: I don't.

MR. SCHIFF: In the document that my colleagues put before you Bates
stamped 245 in which, on November 28, 2016, Rob Goldstone had emailed you and
attached a document from Aras Agalarov and said: "If needed, a lawyer
representing the case is in New York currently and happy to meet with any member
of his transition team." You said this letter came with an attachment?

MS. GRAFF: Again, in preparation for this meeting, | was reviewing the

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through you?

MS. GRAFF: No. It could have gone to one of the other junior assistants.

MR. SWALWELL: Have heads of state before ever reached out to try and
talk to Mr. Trump prior to him becoming a candidate?

MR. FUTERFAS: | wanted to make that distinction. Are you talking about
before the election or after the election?

MR. SWALWELL: Prior to June 2015, when Mr. Trump announced that he
was running for President, had heads of state ever reached out to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | can't recall specifically, but it would not have been unusual.

MR. SWALWELL: Are there any heads of state that you do recall reaching
out to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | can't give you a specific name.

MR. FUTERFAS: Can | have one more second, please?

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm sorry. | just want to put on the record one clarifying
fact: After the election, there was reach-out by heads of state from all over the
world. So | don't think Ms. Graff -- | think Ms. Graff understood your questions as
asking about a timeframe prior to the election.

But if you want to -- if your question included a period of time after the
election, her answer would be different because there was -- obviously there
were -- there was contact after the election.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, I'm talking about prior to June 2015.

MS. GRAFF: Right. | don't --

MR. SWALWELL: Did any heads of state reach out to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall a specific person.

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as promised here is the scan and Roman will deliver the original along with the book
from Aras to Mr. Trump on Monday." Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: That's what the letter says. That's what the email says.

MR. SWALWELL: You reply, "I'm waiting for the package but it will have to
go through security first." Is that correct?

MS. GRAFF: I don't see that. My response is, "It has been quite a busy
week." Oh, here, okay. Okay, | see that. | was just handed the paper.

MR. FUTERFAS: Oh, it's on page -- just so the record is clear, the email
that you're talking about is on 00279.

MR. SWALWELL: Right. We'll mark that as exhibit 6.

HE Thats time.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back. Well, let me finish the question on this.

Do you recall this email?

MS. GRAFF: Again, in preparation for this meeting, | do.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield.

MR. KING: I'm just going to ask, is it fair to say that in the course of a day,
in the office Mr. Trump was businesslike, was all business?

MS. GRAFF: There was some social as well.

MR. KING: Would you see him socialize with his son?

MS. GRAFF: Father to son, it wasn't unusual.

MR. KING: Was there any hostility between the two of them?

MS. GRAFF: They have to answer that. Not that | am aware of.

MR. KING: No, | mean you aren't aware of any --

MS. GRAFF: No.

MR. KING: -- scenes in the office or anything?

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pretty high up there.

MR. SWALWELL: From a PR perspective, it was billed as the largest real
estate deal in America. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you a part of the billing of that real estate deal?

MS. GRAFF: The billing?

MR. SWALWELL: Or the promotion of that real estate deal?

MS. GRAFF: | did not personally put out any press releases on it.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you a part of any team that did put out a press
release on it?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall. | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, as somebody who worked on PR for Mr. Trump, is
that something that would have fallen under your responsibility?

MS. GRAFF: | worked on more personal PR. People wanted to do
interviews with him. | mean, that was more deal -- you know, related to a specific
project, so less likely.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump ever talk to you about the sale of this
project?

MS. GRAFF: | think me and everybody else, because he was very happy
that he made so much money on it.

MS. GRAFF: He made $44 million on it, right?

MS. GRAFF: | don't -- again, | don't recall the exact sale price, so | don't
know the exact, you know, profit that he made.

MR. SWALWELL: But he talked to you about making a big profit on it?

MS. GRAFF: Not to me directly, but to the tone of, wow, look at this great

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MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And where your office is?

MS. GRAFF: Where my office is, correct.

MR. SWALWELL: How many offices are on the 26th floor?

MS. GRAFF: Gosh. A couple of dozen.

MR. SWALWELL: | mean just for The Trump Organization.

MS. GRAFF: On the 26th floor?

MR. SWALWELL: For The Trump Organization.

MS. GRAFF: Well, that floor was dedicated to The Trump Organization, so
everybody that had an office there, you know, was involved with The Trump
Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Donald Trump Jr.'s office there?

MS. GRAFF: No.

MR. SWALWELL: Where was his office?

MS. GRAFF: The 25th floor.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Ivanka Trump when she worked there?

MS. GRAFF: The 25th floor.

MR. SWALWELL: Who else do you recall from 2013 to present day having
offices on the 26th floor?

MS. GRAFF: On the 26th floor?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes, senior-level officials.

MS. GRAFF: You want me to go through every single person?

MR. SWALWELL: Well, senior-level officials that you recall. Mr. Garten,
was he on the 26th floor?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, correct. There -- well, we've had some staff coming and

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email. And an email popped up from a reporter -- and | forget which
outlet -- asking about my involvement in this whatever meeting. And that was the
first time | heard about it.

MR. SCHIFF: So was the -- this email an attachment to the reporter's email
or excerpted?

MS. GRAFF: No. If it was, | didn't notice it.

MR. SCHIFF: Then how did you obtain the email?

MS. GRAFF: | didn't obtain the email. | -- it was -- | called my office, and
they told me that my name was a p.s. or bottom of an email. | said: | don't -- can
you tell me what's going on. I'm getting calls from the media.

And they said: Well, Don happened to post an email, and your name is
mentioned at the bottom of it.

That was the first time | heard it. And that was the first time | saw my name
in print, best | can recollect.

MR. SCHIFF: And did your office send you the email?

MS. GRAFF: No. To the best of my knowledge, | went online to look at it
because it was publicly posted, to the best of my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: And so, when you went online to read this email, that was the
first time that you saw this email?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, as you know, in the email, Mr. Goldstone talks about
some information that Emin Agalarov -- well, | guess, Aras Agalarov got from the
crown prosecutor of Russia that would incriminate Hillary, at least according to the
email.

MS. GRAFF: Which email? There are multiple emails on this page.

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you're asking right now what the number is, | couldn't tell you.

MR. SCHIFF: But you do have it programmed in your phone, so you can
provide that to us?

MS. GRAFF: 1 -- do I still have it? | don't know if | have it, because | didn't
think that | would ever need to use it again.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, do you remember ever deleting it?

MS. GRAFF: [don't know. I'd have to look at my phone.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. We would ask you to look at your phone and, if you
would, provide us the number that you used to reach him up until this year.

MS. GRAFF: Uh-huh.

MR. FUTERFAS: We might -- | want to just lodge an I'll say conditional
objection to that request. We would certainly have to contact | think individuals
representing the President and whatever other appropriate security to determine if
it's appropriate to make that number available. But if it's determined that it is, I'm
sure we can -- assuming it's on her phone, it's still on her phone, we'll make it
available. But! want to just put on the record that I'm a little uncomfortable with
that request, given the security concerns, et cetera.

MR. SCHIFF: We wouldn't expect to get the number if he's still using it.
But we will need to get the phone records. So we'll need to work with you,
Counsel, if we need to make some accommodation with that number to make sure
that we can get the phone records. There are a number of calls that we need to
confirm, either to or from him, and we'll be happy to follow up with you on that.

So the process that you used with Mr. Trump, in terms of communicating
messages to him, did you have that responsibility for other members of the family

as well?

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Does the witness have an opening statement?

MR. FUTERFAS: No.

HEV". King, would you like a statement?

MR. KING: No, sir. Ms. Graff, Pete King from New York.

MS. GRAFF: Yes.

HE, - ould the ranking member or Mr. Swalwell?

MR. SCHIFF: Appreciate your time today.

MS. GRAFF: Thank you.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you, Ms. Graff.

MS. GRAFF: Thank you.

HR) 4\1¢ with that, we'll turn it over to the ranking member for 45
minutes.

MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Graff, how long have you worked for The Trump
Organization?

MS. GRAFF: Approximately 30 years.

MR. SCHIFF: And can you just, to begin, tell us about your work for the
organization. What did you start out doing and what is your work for them now?

MS. GRAFF: | started out as a junior executive assistant, and | was in that
position about 18 years. And then the person who had the senior position retired,
and then | moved into her position. So | became the senior executive assistant to
Mr. Trump.

MR. SCHIFF: And what are your responsibilities as senior executive
assistant?

MS. GRAFF: When he was in New York?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

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MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, even if he -- so just setting the scene of how Trump
Tower worked, and you said that there is no typical day.

MS. GRAFF: Correct. :

MR. SWALWELL: It sounds like, even if Mr. Sater was no longer working at
Trump Tower, because he would have been someone you knew, if he walked past
you into Mr. Trump's office, you wouldn't have stopped him?

MR. FUTERFAS: | think that -- | object. That is mischaracterizing what she
just said about the nature and description of the configuration of the office space
there.

MR. SWALWELL: Would you have stopped Mr. Sater if he had come into
Mr. Trump's office after Mr. Sater left Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: Probably not.

MR. SWALWELL: Why not?

MS. GRAFF: Why not? There are a lot of people that knew Mr. Trump that
were -- he could have been talking with someone else in the company. | would not
necessarily know the reason for him being up there. But he was a familiar face to
me. He wasn'ta threat from a security standpoint. So --

MR. SWALWELL: He wasn't a what?

MS. GRAFF: He wasn'ta threat from a security standpoint: Who was this
unknown person who was wandering around our floors? | mean, that would have
raised a red flag for me. But it was a known face. So, in all likelihood, | don't think
| would have.

MR. SWALWELL: So, if you did see an unknown person, you would have

stopped that person?

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of the emails, he did on a couple of occasions.

MR. SWALWELL: But is it more than just preparation for this meeting? If
you weren't preparing for this meeting and Mr. Goldstone emailed you today, would
you know that he is a person whose message should be passed to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Wait, I'm sorry. We're going back to which timeframe?

MR. SWALWELL: Well, just in the last couple years,

MS. GRAFF: His name became known to me probably after the Miss
Universe Pageant.

MR. SWALWELL: But when you say "in preparation" -- you said a couple
times today, in preparation for this testimony, you're familiar with Mr. Goldstone.
Are you saying that if you didn't review the email exchanges with Mr. Goldstone and
he emailed you today, you'd have no idea who he was?

MS. GRAFF: No. What |'m saying is that | had no idea the depth
of -- what -- how many pieces of correspondence there were. It's a name that |
recognize, but | couldn't tell you, did he email me often, was there a lot of back and
forth. That | can't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: How many emails would you say you got a day in
like -- when Mr. Trump was running for President?

MS. GRAFF: Hundreds.

HR That's time.

MR. SWALWELL: |'ll yield back.

MR. KING: | would just say, again, to try to put'this in perspective,

Mr. Swalwell may remember when he met Brad Pitt if he met him. My
understanding of Mr. Trump's life is it's like an encyclopedia-sized version of how

many world leaders, athletes, movie stars, TV celebrities, characters around New

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MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you the same questions in reverse direction.

MS. GRAFF: Okay.

MR. SCHIFF: Did Mr. Trump at any time, before the campaign, during the
campaign, during the transition, after the transition, did Mr. Trump ever
communicate, to your knowledge, with a Russian national?

MS. GRAFF: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: So he never asked you to place a call to a Russian national?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SCHIFF: And you were never present for any meeting that he had with
a Russian national?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not, not to the best of my recollection.

MR. SCHIFF: Apart from your counsel, did you discuss your testimony,
what you anticipated being asked or what you would testify to, prior to today?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me turn your attention to exhibit 897.

MS. GRAFF: | don't have it.

MR. FUTERFAS: Is it one that's already been distributed?

MR. SCHIFF: | don't know if it's been distributed. | don't think so.

MR. FUTERFAS: No, okay.

MR. SCHIFF: | want you to take a look at 895, -6, and -7.

HE, minute, Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you a different question, since | only have a
minute left. With respect to the questions | asked you about any contacts from
Russian nationals, if Russian nationals had called and it was something you didn't

recollect, would it nonetheless be recorded in the phone logs?

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EXECUTIVE SESSION

PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

WASHINGTON, D.C.

INTERVIEW OF: RHONA GRAFF

Friday, December 22, 2017

The interview in the above matter was held at the Law Offices of Alan S.
Futerfas, 565 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York 10017, commencing at 11:13 a.m.

Present: Representatives King, Schiff, and Swalwell.

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that Mr. Trump knows?

MS. GRAFF: He was not as inaccessible as people think. He held lots of
meetings in his office with lots of people.

MR. SWALWELL: But, again, as the person who received his emails,
passed along his phone calls, and had to make a decision about who was important
and who was not, you can't tell us whether Roger Stone was someone he knew,
whether he was a friend, or whether he was a business associate of Mr. Trump's?

MS. GRAFF: Well, let me just clarify that | was not the only person. As I've
said before, | was not the only person that took his phone calls, that got his emails.

MR. SWALWELL: You were the most important person who took his phone
calls.

MR. FUTERFAS: Can my witness please finish her answer?

MR. SWALWELL: Weren't you the most important person who took his
phone calls?

MR. FUTERFAS: | would object. You interrupted my witness. | would
object to that. She was in the middle of answering your question.

MR. SCHIFF: She finished answering the question.

MR. FUTERFAS: | do not believe she did.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, do you have more to add?

MS. GRAFF: Was | the most important person? Well, thank you very
much for the compliment, but | wouldn't characterize myself that way.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you the most important person who managed Mr.
Trump's schedule, phone calls, emails, and visits?

MS. GRAFF: | was the senior person.

MR. SWALWELL: Is there somebody more important than you that did that

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MS. GRAFF: -- but | don't know what his title is.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know who James Clapper is?

MS. GRAFF: I've seen him on television.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you --have you ever seen those individuals in Trump
Tower?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something you would recall, knowing that you've
seen them now?

MS. GRAFF: Seeing their faces on TV now, do | remember seeing their
faces in Trump Tower?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Why didn't you go to D.C. with --

MS. GRAFF: Why didn't | --

MR. SWALWELL: Yes, once Mr. Trump became President.

MS. GRAFF: Because my family is here. You know, my husband has a job
here. My children -- my daughter's in school here. I'm very happy here in New
York.

MR. KING: What's not to be happy about in New York?

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know Erik Prince?

MS. GRAFF: I don't know the name. It doesn't ring a bell.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Rebekah Mercer?

MS. GRAFF: | vaguely know her name as somebody involved on the
campaign to some degree. | don't know the extent of that.

MR. SWALWELL: Was this a person who ever emailed you to pass a

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The interview will be transcribed. As you can see, there is a reporter making
a record of these proceedings so we can easily consult a written compilation of your
answers. Because the reporter cannot record gestures, we ask that you respond
verbally. If you fail to do so, you may be reminded. You may also be asked to
spell unusual names or phrases.

Consistent with the committee's rules of procedure, you and your counsel,
upon request, will have a reasonable opportunity to review the transcript in order to
determine whether your answers were correctly transcribed. The transcript will
remain in the committee's custody, and the committee also reserves the right to
request your return for additional questions, should the need arise.

The process for the interview will be as follows: The minority will be given
45 minutes to ask questions. Then the majority will be given 45 minutes to ask
questions. Immediately thereafter, we will take a 5-minute break if you'd like, after
which time the minority will be given 15 minutes to ask questions, and the majority
will be given 15 minutes, and we'll alternate until the questions are exhausted. The
time will be adhered to by all sides, with 5-minute and 1-minute warnings,
respectively, before the end of the period.

To ensure confidentiality, we ask that you do not discuss the interview with
anybody other than your attorneys. You are reminded that it is unlawful to
deliberately provide false information to Members of Congress or their staffs.

And, lastly, the record will reflect that you are voluntarily participating in this
interview, which will be under oath.

If you'd raise your right hand to be sworn.

[Witness sworn.]

HEE, The record will reflect the witness answered in the affirmative.

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role?

MS. GRAFF: There was nobody above me that handled that.

MR. SWALWELL: And your testimony to us today is that, as the most
senior person who handled Mr. Trump's emails, phone calls, visits, that you cannot
distinguish for us whether Roger Stone was someone that Mr. Trump merely knew,
someone Mr. Trump was a friend of, or someone who was a business associate of
Mr. Trump's?

MS. GRAFF: | think friendship is a very loosely used term. Lots of people
Say so-and-so is a friend of mine. People -- it's -- people can be friends and
associates.

MR. SWALWELL: Would Mr. Trump call Mr. Stone a friend of his?

MS. GRAFF: He used that term for many people.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he call Mr. Stone a friend of his?

MS. GRAFF: Did | actually hear him say “my friend Roger Stone"? | never
heard him use that term for him.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you a part of Mr. Trump appearing ina
documentary for Mr. Stone? Did you handle any of the logistics for that?

MS. GRAFF: Can you tell me more about the documentary?

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with a Roger Stone documentary called
"Get Me Roger Stone"?

MS. GRAFF: | believe | heard about it in the papers. There was some
publicity in regard to it.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump appear in that documentary?

MS. GRAFF: | can't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: If Mr. Trump appeared in a documentary prior to

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in the next series of questions.
The words "collusion," "coordination," "conspiracy," do those all mean

roughly the same thing to you?

A There may be some vague differences, but essentially, yes.

Q What are those differences?

A I don't know. It’s variations on the same theme.

Q Okay. With respect to the 2016 Presidential campaign, did you

collude, coordinate, or conspire with any element of the Russian Government or
anybody working on its behalf to influence the outcome of the election?

A Absolutely not.

Q The same question with respect to then-candidate Trump?

A Absolutely not.

Q The same question with respect to anybody officially affiliated with the
Trump campaign?

A Absolutely not.

Q The same question with respect to anybody not officially affiliated with
the campaign?

A Absolutely not.

HE 44 for the record, while you're familiarizing yourself with it, this
is DJTJRO1193.

[Graff Exhibit No. 1

Was marked for identification.]

MS. GRAFF: Okay.

|

Q Who is Rob Goldstone?

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in touch with Emin to have a phone conversation, as an alternative to sending you
the material. It's not clear from the emails whether that phone conversation
happened or not. But you don't recall ever having a phone conversation about the
meeting or receive any documents --

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you aware prior to the reporter calling you that the
meeting in Trump Tower on June 9th had taken place?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss with Mr. Trump the June 9th meeting at
Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: No, I did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever discussed with Mr. Trump the -- any meeting
between his son and representatives of the Russian Government?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Or Russian nationals?

MS. GRAFF: Did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Does Mr. Trump continue to call you on PR issues, or is that
completely handled elsewhere?

MS. GRAFF: You mean now that he's in the White House?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: No, he is not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss this meeting that took place in Trump Tower
with Donald Trump Jr.?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you discussed it with anything else in the Trump family?

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And the protocol that we tried to enforce is that our receptionist who got the
call would call me or one of the other assistants and say: Do you know so and so?

And if we didn't recognize them, she would basically say, "I'm sorry,” you
know, whatever, just politely get rid of the call.

MR. SCHIFF: And what if a Russian businessperson or banker involved in a
potential construction project in Russia called, would you make a phone log of that?

MS. GRAFF: You're talking -- wait, a cold call?

MR. SCHIFF: No, not a cold call. Somebody who was working on a
business project with Mr. Trump called and you fielded the call. You may or may
not recollect it today. There would be a record of that in the phone log, would there
not?

MS. GRAFF: | did not keep a log of every single call that came into him.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm not talking about every single call. I'm talking about a
business call from someone who identified himself as doing business with
Mr. Trump; you would make a record of that, would you not?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. But you very well may?

MS. GRAFF: If | didn't know who that person was, | would not enter -- and
it's not somebody that | thought Mr. Trump would want to speak to, | would have no
reason to enter their name in the phone log.

MR. SCHIFF: And if you did know who it was and if you thought Mr. Trump
might want to speak to them, would you enter it in the phone log?

MS. GRAFF: The phone log was a very informal log. It was a spiral
notebook. It wasn't even dated most times. And it was based -- it was sometimes

hit and miss whether that person got entered. It was not nearly as formal as | think

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MR. SCHIFF: -- you would leave them in the inbox?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: Was that true of both phone messages as well as emails?

MS. GRAFF: Phone messages, he had a phonebook, and we'd just write,
handwrite, who called if he was not there.

MR. SCHIFF: And he would mark them up and then put them in the
outbox?

MS. GRAFF: He would mark up what?

MR. SCHIFF: The email summaries or messages you left him.

MS. GRAFF: Generally, or if | happened to go into his office, he said:
Here. You know, | went through the mail last night. Here -- you know, here's
emails that | read.

MR. SCHIFF: And in terms of the phonebook, would he indicate on the
message slips whether he'd returned the call or not?

MS. GRAFF: They weren't message books. It was just a steno, kind of a
steno book, and they were written in hand and the phone number. And then, if he
was traveling, sometimes he would call in and say, "Did | get any calls?" And we'd
read the names to him. fhe was in the office, he'd sometimes write the numbers,
you know: This is the order. So-and-so, I'll call them first, second, third.

And usually one of the junior assistants would place the call for him.

MR. SCHIFF: And what would happen when -- after time went by, in terms
of the phone logs as well as the email messages that you would summarize or write
out and whatever notations he would make on them, what was your practice when
you would get those back?

MS. GRAFF: Well, it depended what it was. You know, | have -- let's say

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MS. GRAFF: The majority of the time | would call Mr. Schiller.

MR. SWALWELL: Why was that?

MS. GRAFF: | didn't want to bother Mr. Trump. | didn't know if he was in
the middle of a meeting, if he was talking to somebody. | had no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: And Mr. Trump would travel, particularly once the
campaign started, quite often?

MS. GRAFF: He was on the road the good part of the time.

MR. SWALWELL: And if there was someone that you knew would be near
him and you needed to pass a message to him, you would call -- | guess I'm asking,
who would you call?

MS. GRAFF: Probably Mr. Schiller.

MR. SWALWELL: Is there anyone else that you would call?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recollect.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Trump and Mr. Schiller, when they worked together,
were they pretty close?

MS. GRAFF: Close, it was a working relationship. He traveled with
Mr. Trump. |, you know --

MR. SWALWELL: Well, it sounds like those who worked for a while with
Mr. Trump and worked closely with Mr. Trump, from your description earlier, you
and your husband would go down to West Palm Beach, that it becomes like family.

MS. GRAFF: _| think Mr. Trump was very, you know, generous to his
employees. And, you know, | was not the only person that he, you know, offered to
fly down with him on occasion. It wasn't -- it didn't happen every weekend. |
mean, that's -- but it was not unusual.

MR. SWALWELL: Would you consider that Mr. Schiller's relationship with

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MS. GRAFF: Well, once Don worked in the company, he had, you
know -- he was working on specific things. He's -- | was not privy to them because
| did not sit in on the meetings, but if he had something to talk to his father about, he
would come up, either call him on the phone or talk to him.

MR. SCHIFF: And during the campaign, how often would that happen?

MS. GRAFF: During the campaign, Mr. Trump was rarely in the office, so |

would say likely not very often at all.

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[Recess.]

MR. SWALWELL: Yield to Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: | want to ask you a little bit more about the nature of your
interactions with Mr. Trump. Part of your job was knowing what was important
enough to bring to his attention?

MS. GRAFF: I'd say that's fair.

MR. SCHIFF: So, when you go through those hundreds of emails, most of
them would never get to Mr. Trump. Is that fair to say?

MS. GRAFF: | wouldn't say most of them. You know, again, it depended
what came in on that day. The percentages could vary from day to day.

MR. SCHIFF: But one of your important responsibilities was to screen the
wheat from the chaff and figure out this really needed Mr. Trump's attention, and
this did not; somebody else could handle it.

MS. GRAFF: I'd say that's reasonable, yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And that would require you to have certain knowledge of what
was important to him, what was important to the business?

MS. GRAFF: | think over 30 years, it's more -- yeah, it's instinct, you know.
It's a judgment call. You know, hopefully | made the right judgment call, but | felt
pretty confident.

MR. SCHIFF: And it would also require you to know who Mr. Trump knew
and who he wanted to talk to and who he might not want to talk to?

MS. GRAFF: Yeah, | did to the best of my ability. Was | 100 percent
perfect? You know, I can't say that.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm not asking if you were 100 percent perfect --

MS. GRAFF: Right. | know.

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documents, and | saw there was a letter attached.
MR. SCHIFF: And was the letter attached from Natalia Veselnitskaya?
MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.
MR. SCHIFF: Was the attachment, when you familiarized yourself with it,
about the Magnitsky Act?
MS. GRAFF: In preparation for the meeting, | don't recall. | don't recall.
MR. SCHIFF: Did you read the attachment?
MS. GRAFF: When | -- in preparation for the meeting?
MR. SCHIFF: Yes, yes.
MS. GRAFF: Yes, | did, but not, you know, word for word.

MR. SCHIFF: The attachment was a followup to the meeting in June; was it

not?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: It involved the same lawyer, did it not, the same Russian
lawyer?

MS. GRAFF: That name didn't ring a bell with me.

MR. SCHIFF: So, when you emailed Steve Bannon and you said, "The
PE" -- you're referring to the President-elect, | assume?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: "Knows Aras well. Rob is his rep in the U.S. and sent this
on. Not sure how to proceed, if at all," did you know at the time that you sent that
email that these were the same people that had come -- at least some of the same
people that had come to that meeting in Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: | had no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Tell us about Mr. Trump's relationship with Aras Agalarov.

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MR. KING: Yield back.

HV c'll turn it back.

MR. SWALWELL: Would Mr. Trump ever call you and the number would
show up as blocked? Has that ever happened?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall. | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Is it possible that that has happened before?

MS. GRAFF: | don't think so.

MR. SWALWELL: You testified to Mr. Schiff that the majority of the emails
intended for Mr. Trump came to your attention.

MS. GRAFF: Uh-huh.

MR. SWALWELL: If they weren't coming to your attention, who else would
they go to?

MS. GRAFF: As | mentioned, there were two other young women, junior
assistants, that sat right outside his office. So they could very likely have gone to
one of them as well.

MR. SWALWELL: How many junior assistants has Mr. Trump had from
2013 to now?

MS. GRAFF: That's a very difficult question to answer.

MR. SWALWELL: Why is that?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: You hire them, right?

MS. GRAFF: | do, but we've had -- you know, it's basically a dead-end
position even though it's, you know, very interesting, | would imagine. But they
leave, and they get a better opportunity somewhere else. So we had, you know,

quite a few coming through the office over the years.

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MS. GRAFF: No. | had no opinion on it either way.

MR. KING: Obviously, you had a role in Donald Trump's public relations
before he ran for President. Is it also fair to say he's his own PR agent?

MS. GRAFF: Very much so.

MR. KING: And just like people in the White House say they can't control
his tweets, you could not control his PR all the time?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. KING: And you could be as surprised as anyone when you read
something in the paper that looked like a carefully planned public relations?

MS. GRAFF: That happened on occasion, yes.

MR. KING: And you knew nothing about it --

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. KING: -- until you read it in the New York Post on page 6?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, that is correct.

MR. KING: Cindy Adams or wherever it may appear.

MS. GRAFF: That is correct.

MR. KING: So he didn't clear his conversations with gossip columnists with
you?

MS. GRAFF: Hardly.

MR. KING: As far as Roger Stone, maybe this is my characterization, but
could he be characterized as somebody in the Trump universe who was in and out
of that universe at different times?

MS. GRAFF: In the Trump universe. He was someone that was known to
Mr. Trump. And | guess he had ideas and suggestions or, you know, wanted to

weigh in on something.

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MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: You said that Mr. Kushner did not have an office at The
Trump Organization. Did that change once he became a part of the campaign?

MS. GRAFF: We had a campaign floor.

MR. SWALWELL: Which floor was that?

MS. GRAFF: You know, | think it was the 14th floor. | --

MR. SWALWELL: Was Mr. Kushner working out of that floor?

MS. GRAFF: | never saw him -- to the best of my knowledge, at times.

MR. SWALWELL: At times during the campaign?

MS. GRAFF: Yeah. | never witnessed him sitting in an office.

MR. SWALWELL: Wasn't a part of the things that you had to worry about?

MS. GRAFF: It was not part of the things | had -- correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Cohen, who was his assistant?

MS. GRAFF: Oh, my gosh. | don't recall having a specific assistant.
There was a pool of assistants that sat outside his office that work for several of our
attorneys, so | can't give you a specific name.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. How about during the campaign? Do you recall
who his assistant was?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: If Mr. Trump were traveling, you said that Mr. Schiller
would be with him. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And if you needed to communicate with Mr. Trump while
he was traveling, would you call Mr. Trump on his cell phone, or would you

communicate through Mr. Schiller?

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big day for me and he called to congratulate me.

MR. SWALWELL: When was that?

MS. GRAFF: Roughly the first or second week in October. | don't
remember the exact date.

MR. SWALWELL: And you have not talked to Mr. Trump since the second
week of October?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever tell Mr. Trump that you were being called to
testify to this committee?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you given testimony to any other committee?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you been asked to provide information to the
special counsel?

MS. GRAFF: You mean Mueller?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SCHIFF: | yield back.

| Ma'am, we really appreciate your time today.

MR. KING: Can I just ask one question to get on the record?

MS. GRAFF: Yes.

MR. KING: You're on the 26th floor. Where was the transition team
working?

MS. GRAFF: They had two floors. | think one was on the 5th floor and one

possibly on the 14th floor. I'm not sure, they may have consolidated. | don't

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MR. SWALWELL: So, during the 2015-2016 Presidential campaign, who

were the two assistants?
MS. GRAFF: | believe -- | don't have the records in front of me so | can't

confirm exactly, but | believe they were Jessica Macchia and Katie Murphy.

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Russian national, as a catch-all, no Russian national ever sought to communicate
with Mr. Trump, to your knowledge, prior to the campaign?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to the form of the question.

MR. SCHIFF: I'll ask the question again. Prior to the campaign, are you
aware of any Russian national that sought to communicate with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my knowledge, to best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And let's go to the period of the campaign. During the
campaign, are you aware of any business that Mr. Trump sought to do in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: No, | am not.

MR. SCHIFF: And during the campaign, are you aware of any Russian
national emailing or calling or seeking to communicate with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so.

MR. KING: Adam, could | ask you how you're defining "Russian national"?

MR. SCHIFF: A Russian citizen and --

MR. KING: Could it be a Russian living in Brighton Beach or Coney Island
or --

MR. SCHIFF: Yes, it could be. Yeah. Yeah.

And did you understand my question that way?

MS. GRAFF: Well, if you could repeat it again, that would be helpful.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'll start then, prior to the campaign, do you recall -- or
let me ask it this way: Prior to the campaign, did any Russian national, whether
they lived in the United States or in Russia or anywhere else, whether they were
affiliated with the government or the private sector, communicate with Mr. Trump in
writing or by phone?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

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MR. SCHIFF: Still on the bottom email.

MS. GRAFF: The -- June 3, okay.

MR. SCHIFF: Yes. They're numbered -- June 3, but the email that you got
the call from the reporter about.

MS. GRAFF: Got it.

MR. SCHIFF: At the bottom of that email where you're mentioned, it says:
| can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra-sensitive so wanted
to send to you first.

Did Rob Goldstone ever send the info to you?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Does that mean that he might have?

MS. GRAFF: | think it's highly unlikely.

MR. SCHIFF: Because you would remember if he had sent it to you?

MS. GRAFF: Because he had -- because | think he would have made a -- it
looks to me like he made a suggestion. | don't know if he followed through.

MR. SCHIFF: But at this point, you don't remember whether he also sent
you the information?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so. | don't recollect that he did.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you at the time that the arrangements were being made
for this meeting, did you talk to Rob Goldstone at all?

MS. GRAFF: No, | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: So he never called you about the logistics or anything else
concerning the meeting?

~ MS. GRAFF: No, | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: From the emails that follow, there was an effort to put Don dr.

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MS. GRAFF: | probably would have called somebody in security and say:
Does so-and-so have a meeting here? | don't know who they are.

MR. SWALWELL: Who maintains the records for visitors to Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: There is no specific record.

MR. SWALWELL: How do you know that?

MS. GRAFF: Well -- how do | know that?

MR. SWALWELL: How do you know that there's no record?

MS. GRAFF: Well, | have never been told that there's a particular protocol
for visitors.

MR. SWALWELL: If somebody wants to visit Mr. Trump and they're going
through you, what would you tell them they had to do?

MS. GRAFF: | would tell them when they enter, give them directions: You
come into the main building of Trump Tower. You go to the security desk. You
announce yourself.

Usually, the security desk would call up to me and say: So-and-so is here
for a meeting.

And | would say: That's fine. Let them up.

MR. SWALWELL: Would you ever send names down to the security desk?

MS. GRAFF: Only if it was a large meeting, but | didn't organize every
meeting that he had, so | don't know a lot of the people that would come up.

MR. SWALWELL: And do you know whether the security desk kept records
of any names that you would send down?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know that.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if they would keep records of individuals

who walked up to the security desk, said they had a meeting, weren't on a list, but

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their names for quite a long time.

MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.

Bank?

MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.

SWALWELL: Who are they?

GRAFF: | think Rosemary Vrablic, and | forget the other gentleman.
SWALWELL: How do you spell Ms. Vrablic's last name?

GRAFF: V-r-a-b-Li-c.

SWALWELL: Is she Russian?

GRAFF: | don't think -- | don't know. | don't know.

SWALWELL: Who was the other name?

GRAFF: | don't remember the name of the gentleman.
SWALWELL: Can you get that for us?

GRAFF: Probably.

SWALWELL: How about VEB Bank, have you ever dealt with VEB

GRAFF: No. | don't know who they are.

SWALWELL: How about VTB Bank?

GRAFF: No, | don't know who they are.

SWALWELL: Are you aware that in 2015 and 2016 Michael Cohen

was arranging to do a deal, a Trump Tower deal in Moscow with VTB Bank?

MS.
MR.

GRAFF: | have no idea.

SWALWELL: You testified earlier, | believe to Mr. King, that Russia

was discussed minimally by Mr. Trump throughout the time you've worked with him.

In what context do you remember Russia being discussed?

MS.

GRAFF: What context? | mean, maybe something in the headlines

that was in the news. | mean it was -- | can't pinpoint a specific area.

MR.

SWALWELL: Were you working at Trump Tower on January 6th,

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MR. FUTERFAS: Might be a higher likelihood of that. Just kidding.

MR. SWALWELL: _|'m just trying to --

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SWALWELL: -- help us understand.

MS. GRAFF: Right. I'm on the record. You want me to confirm something
that I'm telling you | can't confirm with 100 percent surety.

MR. SWALWELL: What percentage of meetings did you sit in on with Mr.
Trump when you worked for him? Because you said --

MS. GRAFF: During the campaign?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: During the campaign, to the best of my recollection, zero.

MR. SWALWELL: Prior to the campaign.

MS. GRAFF: It depends what the subject matter was.

MR. SWALWELL: Why would you sit in on a meeting?

MS. GRAFF: One of the jobs that | did, | -- | -- people would come to me.
You know, Mr. Trump was a very well-known and popular motivational speaker, and
one of the things, | would get emails all the time from various organizations wanting
him to speak. And they would -- they would come to me. And then I'd usually
work with our attorneys. I'd negotiate whatever, you know, fees there were and so
on and so forth.

If there were meetings to talk about the deal, because | was specifically
working on that, | would sit in on events or projects that | was specifically working
on.

MR. SWALWELL: How many times, to your knowledge, has Mr. Trump

been to Russia?

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name happened to be at the bottom of that."

MR. SCHIFF: And did she tell you any more about the email?

MS. GRAFF: And | think -- | believe she said it was at some meeting that
Don had had. But! don't -- again, without having it in front of me, | can't -- | can't
tell you the specifics. All | know is, from my perspective, what is this?

MR. SCHIFF: Anything else you recall of that conversation with Ms. Miller?

MS. GRAFF: | think it was fairly brief.

MR. SCHIFF: Is there anything else you recall of it?

MS. GRAFF: No.

MR. SCHIFF: Did she then email you anything? You said that you went
online to look up the emails, but did Ms. Miller or anyone else from The Trump
Organization email you any information about the issue, controversy, meeting, et
cetera?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall. But you'd probably have it in the documents
that you had from discovery if there was. | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm not sure we would have it, that's why | asked.

MR. FUTERFAS: Can | ask a point of clarification? | see from my notes
we've been going straight since 1:25 p.m. without a break, and it's now 2:50. Is it
okay, can we take a short break, because it's been --

MR. KING: Adam?

MR. FUTERFAS: | just don't know. | know you all have your own timing of
how you do things. | just realized that a lot of time had gone by without a break,
and if we --

MR. KING: It doesn't matter to me.

MR. SCHIFF: If you don't mind finishing this line of questioning and then we

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deal that happened.

MR. SWALWELL: And that deal was a sale to a Dmitry Ryboloviev of
Russia. Is that correct?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall the name of the purchaser. The name sounds
familiar to me, but | can't confirm that's who it was.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump ever say anything to you about
Mr. Ryboloviev?

MS. GRAFF: About him specifically? Not that | recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he ever say anything about him generally?

MS. GRAFF: Other than the fact that, you know, | made this great deal and
| made a lot of money, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you -- as the person who received Mr. Trump's
emails and phone calls, did you --

MS. GRAFF: Not the only person.

MR. SWALWELL: As one of the persons who received Mr. Trump's emails
and phone calls, did you ever receive any emails or phone calls with respect to this
sale to Mr. Ryboloviev? :

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something that would -- let me rephrase that.

Is that something that you can check on and preserve if that is, indeed, the
case?

MS. GRAFF: What year are we -- | would -- you'd have to ask our IT people
that.

MR. FUTERFAS: What year was the sale?

MR. SWALWELL: In 2008.

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HERE, Good morning. This is the committee's interview of Rhona
Graff. Thank you for speaking to us today. For the record, | am J a
staff member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence for the
majority. Also present today are members and committee staff, who will introduce
themselves as the proceedings get underway.

Before we begin, | wanted to state a few things for the record. The
questioning will be conducted by members and committee staff. During the course
of this interview, each side may ask questions during their allotted time period.
Some questions may seem basic, but that is because we want to clearly establish
the facts and understand the situation. Please do not assume we know any facts
you have previously disclosed as part of any other investigation or review.

This interview will be conducted at the unclassified level.

During the course of this interview, we will take any breaks you desire. We
ask that you give complete and fulsome replies to questions based on your best
recollection. If a question is unclear or you are uncertain in your response, please
let us know. If you do not know the answer to a question or cannot remember,
simply say so.

You are entitled to have counsel present with you during this interview, and |
see that you do.

If counsel would please introduce themselves for the record.

MR. FUTERFAS: Yes. Good morning. Alan Futerfas for Ms. Graff.

MS. SCHEIN: Good morning. Bettina Schein for Ms. Graff.

MS. LYNCH: Karina Lynch for Ms. Graff.

HE, Thank you.

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MS. GRAFF: | can't generalize. |t depends on what specific project or
event or situation you're talking about.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever observe Donald Trump Jr. making a
decision without having to consult his father?

MS. GRAFF: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. So then from everything you observed, if he
made a decision, he had to consult his father?

MS. GRAFF: No, | didn't say that.

MR. FUTERFAS: Objection. Objection to the form. So it's clear, the
witness answered before | could object, but the witness' statement was: No, | did
not say that.

MR. SWALWELL: She said, I'm not aware of that.

MR. FUTERFAS: Or I'm not aware of it. If you can rephrase the question,
I'll let the witness answer.

MR. SWALWELL: Can the reporter read back the last answer?

[The reporter read back the record as requested]

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever observe Donald Trump Jr. go to his father
to seek approval?

MS. GRAFF: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SWALWELL: So going back to exhibit 6, Bates stamped 279-280, was
the book ever given to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Right. | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: If it was given to Mr. Trump, who would have given it to
him? Is that something that would normally go through you?

MS. GRAFF: It could have been through me.

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relationship he had with Vladimir Putin?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something that you would recall though, the
President of Russia having a relationship with your boss?

MS. GRAFF: Wait, do | recall him having a conversation with me, or do |
recall him having a relationship with him?

MR. SWALWELL: Well, | guess, there's just some things that would be so
memorable that you would recall. So is it something that you think you would recall
if he had said it?

MR. FUTERFAS: I'msorry. Can we -- now I'm lost. Can we just -- ask
whatever question you have, and she can answer it, and we can kind of -- because
I'm not sure which question is currently on the table, if you don't mind. I'm sorry.

MR. SWALWELL: Sure.

You know, Ms. Graff, sometimes if you ask somebody a question that's so
out of left field, they would say, you know, "No, | never met Brad Pitt, and, of
course, | would recall if | had met Brad Pitt." So I'm asking you: Did Mr. Trump
ever talk to you about a relationship he had with Mr. Putin prior to Mr. Trump going
to Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Has Mr. Trump ever talked to you about Mr. Putin?

MS. GRAFF: Not specifically that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Has Mr. Putin ever reached out to speak with
Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Not that! can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something that if he had done, it would have come

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MS. GRAFF: It's M, like in Mary, a-c-c-h-i-a.

MR. SWALWELL: Thanks.

MS. GRAFF: Okay.

MR. SWALWELL: You've testified earlier that, during the campaign,
99 percent of the time, if Mr. Trump was flying, he was flying in his own plane. Is
that right?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And that you would call a chief pilot. Who was the chief
pilot during the campaign?

MS. GRAFF: John Dunkin.

MR. SWALWELL:  D-u-n-k-i-n?

MS. GRAFF: K-i-n, like the donuts.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, prior to the campaign, was it also true that, if
Mr. Trump was traveling, 99 percent of the time he would use his own plane?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And who was the chief pilot, let's just say, 2013 forward?

MS. GRAFF: | believe it was Captain Dunkin.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. How long has Mr. Dunkin been the chief pilot?

MS. GRAFF: | can't -- | don't know the exact dates.

MR. SWALWELL: And if Mr. Trump was not using his own plane, what
would the reason be?

MS. GRAFF: It was being serviced. Maybe potentially there was a
mechanical problem. They had to go through certain checks that all planes do,
SO --

MR. SWALWELL: But that was something that happened infrequently?

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MS. GRAFF: Who doesn't know who he is at this point? | mean, his
name's been all over the newspapers.

MR. SWALWELL: But, again, a number of times today you've testified “in
preparation for today," and my question is, just talking like two normal people --

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SWALWELL: -- if Emin sends a note to you, does it trigger something
in your mind that, okay, Emin is someone that Mr. Trump has communicated back
and forth with?

MS. GRAFF: You asked me if | knew the name, and | said | knew the name.
| don't remember the nature of the emails that were sent back and forth. And so, in
preparation for this meeting, | had to see the actual emails. It doesn't mean | didn't
know who he was.

MR. SWALWELL: But if you and Emin were on the street talking and Emin
said, "Thanks for getting those notes to Mr. Trump," you would recall that you'd
been doing that for Emin, because not everyone gets their note passed to Mr.
Trump, right?

MS. GRAFF: A lot of people do.

MR. SWALWELL: On October 7th, 2016, Mr. Goldstone emailed you,
copying Roman Beniaminov. Do you know that name? B-e-n-i-a-m-i-n-o-v.

MS. GRAFF: Again, in preparation for this email, | saw his name in -- |
guess on the cc line.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. But if we were not in this hearing and | was out in
the hallway and | said, "Hey, Rhona, who's Roman?"

MS. GRAFF: And | would say | don't recall, | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you say "I don't recall" in your normal day-to-day

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MR. SCHIFF: Are you familiar with Bayrock Group?

MS. GRAFF: I've heard the name.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did The Trump Organization start doing business
with Bayrock Group?

MS. GRAFF: Oh, | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know Felix Sater?

MS. GRAFF: | know the name.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you met him before?

MS. GRAFF: | have.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did you first meet him?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, it was around the time of the
project we were doing down at Trump SoHo.

MR. SCHIFF: Which would have been when?

MS. GRAFF: | don't remember -- | don't know the dates.

MR. SCHIFF: Can you give us a ballpark?

MS. GRAFF: No, | cannot. | just -- there are so many dates in my head of
so many different projects. | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: And how did you come into contact with Mr. Sater?

MS. GRAFF: | don't remember the specifics of it.

MR. SCHIFF: To your knowledge, did he have an office in Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: At one point, he did.

MR. SCHIFF: And about when was that?

MS. GRAFF: | can't give you the dates on that. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: And when Mr. Sater wanted to reach Mr. Trump, how would

he do that?

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out everything, and | keep them in a file, you know, itineraries from year to year to
year.

MR. SCHIFF: And how long would you have an archive of his travel?

MS. GRAFF: Well, | think | have them going back, | don't know, 2008, 2009.
| don't -- can't give you a confirmed answer, because | don't have it in front of me.

MR. SCHIFF: But in terms of, for example, his trip to Moscow for the Miss
Universe Pageant, you would have the records of when he left and where he left
from and on whose plane he was and what hotels he stayed at and those type of
things?

MS. GRAFF: | haven't looked for it, but | likely would have it.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, in terms of other senior members of The Trump
Organization, would you handle the travel logistics for any of them?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: And who would have a substantially similar role, for example,
for Donald Trump Jr.?

MS. GRAFF: You're looking for a specific name?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: Currently?

MR. SCHIFF: Currently and last year or the year before.

MS. GRAFF: He's had a few different assistants. They had to leave for
personal reasons or other reasons, and | can't give you the names. | mean, | don't
know. | can't give you specific information.

MR. SCHIFF: You don't remember the names of any of them?

MS. GRAFF: There have been -- his current -- his current assistant is

named Kim Benza. And | can't recall off the top of my head who was his assistant,

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MS. GRAFF: No, not at all.

MR. KING: There was nothing unusual --

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. KING: Just so that we have you on the record.

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. KING: And, again, on these emails, for instance, | see the one from
publicist Goldstone, it seems to me you're just giving basically polite responses.

MS. GRAFF: That is correct. It was my job --

MR. KING: It's not like he's a lifelong friend or somebody you talk to every
day.

MS. GRAFF: It was my job to represent Mr. Trump well and to be very nice
and respectful and make them feel good about themselves and just write a very
nice email to people. It was a matter of course for me. It was not unusual.

MR. KING: And also the fact that someone may send an email acting overly
friendly, often to get attention they may do that, like a publicist like Goldstone?

MS. GRAFF: It happened all the time.

MR. KING: So the fact that a person acts friendly or effusive in an email to
you or Mr. Trump doesn't mean that he is necessarily a long-term friend?

MS. GRAFF: Ofcourse not. I'ma means to an end, so | know they're very
friendly to me.

MR. KING: | yield back.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you.

Ms. Graff, between Mr. Trump and Donald Trump Jr., who was the
decisionmaker? From what you observed, could Donald Trump Jr. make a

decision on his own or did he have to seek his father's approval?

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MS. GRAFF: No, he did not.

MR. KING: Did anybody in the office discuss Michael Cohen going to
Prague?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. KING: And Mr. Trump never mentioned to you about it?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

2,

Q Hi, Ms. Graff, my name is ME |'m also with the majority.
Thanks for joining us today.

Very briefly, in your three decades of employment with The Trump
Organization, have you ever known any information that would even infer the
possibility that then-private citizen Trump, thereafter candidate Trump and now
President Trump, ever conspired or colluded with members of the Russian
Government to do any sort of criminal activity whatsoever?

A No, | do not.

Q Do you have any information to suggest or infer that, during those
three decades of employment with The Trump Organization that Mr. Trump, then
candidate Trump and now President Trump, directed anyone to engage with
members of the Russian Government to conduct any criminal activity whatsoever?

A No, | do not.

Q And, lastly, ma'am, do you have any question during your three
decades of employment at The Trump Organization if anyone acted at the behest of
The Trump Organization, whether they were required to or not, that would suggest
that any member associated with the Trump campaign or The Trump Organization

conspired or colluded with members of the Russian Government to conduct any

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rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia."

Now, going to 2014, is that something that, from where you sat, sounds
accurate?

MS. GRAFF: | can't comment on what Eric has said.

MR. SWALWELL: Again, I'm just asking you, he is reportedly saying in
2014, "We have all the funding we need out of Russia." And as somebody, again,
who read Mr. Trump's emails, took Mr. Trump's calls, arranged his visits, you had a
better perspective than most of the world as to what was going on in The Trump
Organization. So does this even remotely sound true?

MS. GRAFF: | had no knowledge about any funding or any relationships or
any deals. It wouldn't, again, be in my realm of knowledge or understanding. |
can't answer that. But as far as I know, no.

Hr minute, mr. Swaiwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever know of any Russians to live in Trump
Tower, in apartments or condos?

MS. GRAFF: There were many foreign nationals in our buildings. Can 1
confirm that they're specifically Russians? No, | can't.

MR. SWALWELL: Did any of them ever tell you they were Russians?

MS. GRAFF: | had very little contact with the people that resided in Trump
Tower.

MR. SWALWELL: In 2013, the FBI came into Trump Tower and arrested
two Russians who were running a gambling and money laundering ring out of one
of the condos in the building. Do you remember this?

MS. GRAFF: No, | don't.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with this at all?

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MR. SCHIFF: With respect to meetings with Russian nationals who either
reside here, reside in Russia, reside anywhere else, whether they're affiliated with
the government or in business, apart from the Agalarovs, you're not aware of any
meetings or relationship between Mr. Trump and Russian nationals?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: With respect to the Russian money laundering operation in
Trump Tower, you had no knowledge this ever took place?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And never discussed it with Mr. Trump or anyone else?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: With respect to the briefing by the FBI! and Intel leaders in
Trump Tower, you weren't even aware it took place until you read about it
presumably sometime thereafter?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And after that meeting took place, you never had any
conversation with Mr. Trump about what took place during that meeting?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever discussed with Mr. Trump any of the
allegations concerning Russian collusion with the Trump campaign?

MS. GRAFF: | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever had any discussions or been present with Mr.
Trump in which the hacked Democratic Party emails were discussed?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my current recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: You never heard Mr. Trump in your presence talk about the

hacked emails?

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MR. SWALWELL: Las Vegas, Miss USA.

MR. FUTERFAS: Oh, okay. Got it. Thank you.

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you a part of the planning for that?

MS. GRAFF: From the scheduling perspective for Mr. Trump and doing his
itinerary, to that extent, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: How did Mr. Trump get there?

MS. GRAFF: | don't have the itinerary in front of me. In all likelihood, he
took his private plane.

MR. SWALWELL: And is that itinerary something that would still be
available today?

MS. GRAFF: | would hope so. | did my best to keep them, but, you know, |
don't -- | can't say that every single itinerary that | did is in there. | don't recall.

MS. SWALWELL: And it sounds like, Ms. Graff, that you're pretty thorough
with your recordkeeping, that you've saved phone logs, you've saved calendars,
you've saved emails.

MS. GRAFF: | do my best, but it was an extremely busy office, and there
are lots of people and lots of moving parts.

MR. SWALWELL: Who traveled with Mr. Trump to that Las Vegas event?

MS. GRAFF: Again, | don't have the itinerary in front of me, so | can't give
you the specific names.

MR. SWALWELL: But based on what you told us earlier, the itinerary would
probably include who would be flying with him?

MS. GRAFF: Most likely, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Schiller go with him?

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MR. SWALWELL: You said that --

MS. GRAFF: | didn't see the emails. | don't know what emails you're
talking about.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, you said he might have sent emails to you to pass
on to Mr. Trump.

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to this line of questioning. !'m going to let my
witness answer, but you're obviously asking her to speculate in question after
question after question, and that's all she's doing, is speculating in question after
question.

I'll let you continue asking questions to your heart's content, but it's clear that
you're simply asking her to guess and speculate as to a whole series of events that
she does not recall. ! will not interrupt your questioning, but | think that should be
clear on the record.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, you've testified that Mr. Stone was probably in
Trump Tower during the campaign and might have sent emails to you to pass on to
Mr. Trump. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: As Mr. Futerfas has said, I'm speculating on that.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, | don't want you to speculate. | asked you to just
tell us what you remember. And when you say probably, that means more than it's
something that possibly could have happened.

MS. GRAFF: Possibly, probably.

MR. SWALWELL: Do they mean the same thing to you?

MS. GRAFF: They're in the same wheelhouse.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, if | asked you if Roger Rabbit was in Trump Tower

in 2015 and 2016, would you say he was or he wasn't?

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MR. SCHIFF: -- but you did need at least a certain modicum of knowledge
about his business and priorities in order to do that job, right?

MS. GRAFF: | think that's a fair assumption.

MR. SCHIFF: And you also handled PR for the organization?

MS. GRAFF: Parts of it, not -- | was not the PR person for The Trump
Organization.

MR. SCHIFF: And what parts of the PR did you handle?

MS. GRAFF: Well, usually PR that related directly to him.

MR. SCHIFF: And fair to say that he did a lot of media?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And I think you started out by saying that was a big part of
your responsibility?

MS. GRAFF: Correct, but it depends on the timeframe.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you about four different time periods, prior to the
campaign, during the campaign, during the transition, and after the transition.

MS. GRAFF: Okay.

MR. SCHIFF: So let me start prior to the campaign. Prior to the campaign,
were you aware of any business dealings that Mr. Trump had in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not, to the best of my recollection.

MR. SCHIFF: So you would have never been privy to any communications,
let's start out in writing, about any proposals to build Trump projects in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SCHIFF: Or any license agreements, buildings in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: That would not have emanated from my department.

MR. SCHIFF: But if people seeking to communicate with Mr. Trump about

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MS. GRAFF: No, | did not know.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know anything about the business proposals Mr.
Sater worked on for Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SCHIFF: | think you said before, Ms. Graff, that you didn't play any
formal role in the Presidential campaign?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: You stayed with a full-time focus on The Trump Organization
and handling that part of Mr. Trump's work?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

Hr minute, Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: This is probably a good point for me to pause, so I'll yield to
my colleagues.

MR. KING: | would just -- I'll tum the questioning over to [J | want to
thank you for being here. Great way to spend the Friday before Christmas.

MS. GRAFF: Right. Thank you.

MR. KING: Just to clarify one thing and just from my experience, what |
know, Mr. Trump ran a very casual -- | mean, unlike many executives, people came
and went and in and out, which maybe made it difficult for you. But | mean,
basically anyone in a certain realm could get in if they wanted to?

MS. GRAFF: That is correct.

MR. KING: Without making appointments?

MS. GRAFF: Right, correct.

MR. KING: In my experience, the White House was the same way for a

while. | was going to show up.

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MS. GRAFF: Yeah, of course I did. | mean, again, Donald Trump was a
huge celebrity. And so everybody -- he had fans internationally, people that were
writing to him, you know, "I saw you on 'The Apprentice." You know, they'd ask for
autographed photos and hats. There were speaking engagements. | mean,
there's a whole host of people reaching out, you know, wanting to communicate.

MR. SCHIFF: And you were pretty much at the center of that?

MS. GRAFF: | did my best to -- yes, | guess you could characterize it that
way.

MR. KING: Okay. Now, did he ask you who emailed him, or did he just
leave that up to you to decide what to show him?

MS. GRAFF: Unless it was something he was expecting, you know, "I just
spoke with so-and-so, he's going to second me an email or an invitation for
something," it was, again, my discretion.

MR. KING: He trusted your judgment. He wouldn't ask for a whole list of
every email that came in?

MS. GRAFF: No. !mean, he wouldn't have the time to even go through it
all. .

MR. KING: Okay.

MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Graff, the day after the June 9th meeting, Rob Goldstone
emailed you about delivering a present from Aras Agalarov. Do you recall that?

MS. GRAFF: In preparation for the meeting, | recall seeing an email about

MR. SCHIFF: And do you recall any phone conversation you had with
Mr. Goldstone about the gift or painting?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall a specific phone call about it.

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MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: And when the President's sons or daughter or others in the
family wanted to reach him, | take it they didn't go through you?

MS. GRAFF: They didn't need to. Correct, they did not go through me.

MR. SCHIFF: And who else would be in that category of people who could
go directly to Mr. Trump rather than having to go through you? | imagine it was a
small number.

MS. GRAFF: A small number, correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And who else, apart from family, would be in that category?

MS. GRAFF: | can't confirm exactly who they are, but our senior executives
probably would want to have access to that number.

MR. SCHIFF: And what senior executives are those?

MS. GRAFF: Just the top -- anybody who held the title of EVP.

MR. SCHIFF: And if you would tell us who they are.

MS. GRAFF: I don't know. Some of them are not here now. So -

MR. SCHIFF: And who would they have been last year?

MS. GRAFF: Who would they have been last year? Probably, you know,
our CFO, our general counsel, as it would in any company.

MR. SCHIFF: If you could just tell us who they are.

MS. GRAFF: Mr. Weiselberg, Alan Weiselberg.

MR. SCHIFF: And he is what?

MS. GRAFF: He's CFO. Our general counsel, Mr. Garten. Those are the
two people that come to mind most often. | would have that number.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Schiller as well, | assume?

MS. GRAFF: | believe so, yes.

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business in Russia had emailed Mr. Trump, that would have gone through you?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily.

MR. SCHIFF: It could have gone through the other two junior assistants?

MS. GRAFF: It could have gone -- we had a whole development division.
They were working on multiple projects all over the world. It could have gone to
any one of those people.

MR. SCHIFF: But you didn't see any emails or any other written
communication prior to the campaign involving Trump Organization business in
Russia?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SCHIFF: Prior to the campaign, what communications do you recall
from Russian Government officials, Russian business people, or Russian nationals
came to your attention?

MS. GRAFF: If you're asking me to give specific names, I'm not capable of
giving you specific names. | can't recall anything in particular.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, whether you can recall specific names or not, do you
recall any Russian business people, government representatives, or Russian
nationals prior to the campaign seeking to make contact with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And | was asking about written communication. Do you
recall, prior to the campaign, any Russian Government officials, Russian business
people, Russian nationals calling and asking to speak to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So, in terms of the period prior to the campaign, to the best of

your recollection, no Russian Government official or Russian -- let's just say

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MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And why wouldn't it be recorded in the phone logs?

MS. GRAFF: You're saying it's a name that | didn't know?

MR. SCHIFF: No. You mentioned that you didn't recollect any Russian
nationals ever seeking to communicate with Mr. Trump apart from the Agalarovs. If
there were calls that you don't recollect, would they be recorded in the phone logs?

MS. GRAFF: If there was a name that | didn't recognize, there would be no
reason to record it.

HE Thats time.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay.

MR. KING: | would just ask, during all the years that you were at Trump
headquarters, Trump Tower, was there much discussion of Russia? Was this a big
issue? Was this --

MS. GRAFF: Minimally. Minimally.

MR. KING: There were not Russians coming in and out?

MS. GRAFF: No, there were definitely not.

MR. KING: Okay. Thank you. I'm done.

MR. SCHIFF: So, if someone called and sought to communicate with
Mr. Trump, if you didn't recognize the name, you wouldn't include it in the phone
log?

MS. GRAFF: Well, | don't -- if -- it depends what number they called in on,
but if they called on the main number and we didn't -- we could not identify who that
person was, it would probably not even go back to my office. | mean, we were
getting hundreds and hundreds of phone calls on the main line and all sorts of

people wanting to talk to Mr. Trump.

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MS. GRAFF: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And are there any Trump Organization documents, like
calendars or messages, that you would have kept for any reason on any personal
communication devices or personal computers?

MS. GRAFF: No, not to my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: So, if you would, prior to this year -- obviously, this year is
quite different, and even last year I'm sure was quite different than the year before.

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: But if you could go through, why don't we start maybe before
the campaign, and tell us what an average day in your job was like.

MS. GRAFF: There was no average day. Every day was a little bit
different. It depended -- depended what was on the calendar, It was often
press-related. Mr. Trump was obviously a celebrated personality and lots of people
wanted to interview him. So | was -- a good part of the day was handling press
calls for him. You know, we'd like to interview him. I'd set up event -- I'd set up
interviews for him. They would be phoners. They would be in person.

'd deal with various entities in The Trump Organization. Somebody wanted
to have him -- send some paperwork, just like an overview, a summary what was
going on at that particular entity. I'd make sure it would go on his desk so he could
see it. He had an inbox and an outbox.

| managed the emails that came in. The majority of emails came to my
attention, and | used my discretion whether this is something that he needed to see
or something that | could handle. If it was something that he needed to see, |
would usually read it, summarize it, so he didn't have to read 2 pages of documents.

So-and-so wants to invite you to speak at some event. Is this something you'd be

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MS. GRAFF: What dol remember? Well, | wasn't -- if Roger was there
and was meeting with Mr. Trump, | did not sit in on meetings, so | can't say what the
context of the meeting would be.

MR. SWALWELL: And my question is, Ms. Graff, with your own eyes, 2015
to 2016, did you ever see Roger Stone in Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: | don't want to say yes with 100 percent surety, but probably.

MR. SWALWELL: How many times did you probably see Roger Stone at
Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: | don't like to guess, but a couple of times maybe.

MR. SWALWELL: And from 2015 to 2016, did Roger Stone ever email you
to pass a message to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: He might have.

MR. SWALWELL: How many times might he have done that?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something that you can go back to your records
and provide for us?

MS. GRAFF: I'm sure the emails are there. If they're there, they're there.

MR. SWALWELL: What do you recall Roger Stone wanting to be passed
along to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: From what | know of Roger, he liked to give political advice,
and that was his -- that was his, you know, business. So my guess is he had
some -- you know, he just wanted to pass on some advice or suggestions.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Stone ever discuss WikiLeaks in any of those
emails?

MS. GRAFF: Not to my knowledge.

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MS. GRAFF: Okay. Sodol.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall anyone communicating through you trying to
set up a congratulatory call with Mr. Putin?

MS. GRAFF: | don't remember.

MR. SCHIFF: And apart from a congratulatory call, during the transition, do
you recall any Russian nationals communicating with Mr. Trump who would have
done so through you or to your knowledge?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: And same question for after the transition. After the
transition --

MS. GRAFF: You mean --

MR. SCHIFF: Well, | guess --

MS. GRAFF: Meaning after inauguration?

MR. SCHIFF: And, | guess, during the transition, Rob Goldstone did
communicate with you about setting up a meeting with the lawyer. So, apart from
that, that would have been a communication seeking to set up a meeting with
Russian national. So, apart from that, are you aware during the transition of any
other Russian national seeking to get in touch with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Not that I'm aware of.

MR. SCHIFF: And after the transition, same question: To your knowledge,
did any Russian nationals seek to communicate with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: "After transition" being once Mr. Trump was in the
White House?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes, after the inauguration.

MS. GRAFF: Not aware of it at all.

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MR. SWALWELL: Who else?

MS. GRAFF: But | -- perhaps one of the other executive assistants.

MR. SWALWELL: Who's Roger Stone?

MS. GRAFF: Who is Roger Stone? He has a political background.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, who is he to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Whois he to Mr. Trump? What was his relationship to Mr.
Trump? They've just known each other for years.

MR. SWALWELL: How many years?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: As long as you've worked there?

MS. GRAFF: | can't confirm that.

MR. SWALWELL: As long as you've worked there, have you known Mr.
Stone to be a friend of Mr. Trump's?

MS. GRAFF: A friend of Mr. Trump? They've known each other. | don't
know would | characterize it as a friendship. | can't do that.

MR. SWALWELL: What would you characterize it as?

MS. GRAFF: They knew each other.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever see Mr. Stone in Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | have.

MR. SWALWELL: How many times?

MS. GRAFF: Over the course of years, | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: A lot of times?

MS. GRAFF: | can't -- | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, you would agree that somebody who comes to

Trump Tower and gets an audience with Mr. Trump is different than just somebody

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Trump Jr.?

MS. GRAFF: | believe that's his title.

MR. SWALWELL: If Donald Trump Jr. and Mr. Trump were in the office at
the same time, would you see the two of them interact with each other?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily, no.

MR. SWALWELL: You've never seen the two of them interact together?

MR. FUTERFAS: Object to the form of the question.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, | don't understand. You're answering in the
negative. |'m just asking if you have ever seen them interact together.

MS. GRAFF: | don't see I'm answering in the negative. | mean, unless |
walked into his office and saw Don sitting with his father, you know --

MR. SWALWELL: And my question is, have you seen --

MR. FUTERFAS: Can my witness finish her answer? "Unless | walked into
his office" -- and you were saying, "Unless | walked into his office and saw Don
sitting with his father," you were going to finish --

MS. GRAFF: Right. Those are the times that | witnessed him being with
his father, but | had to physically walk in there to know it.

MR. SWALWELL: And my question is, if, during a typical week, Mr. Trump
and Donald Trump Jr. are in the same building -- Mr. Trump is not traveling; Don Jr.
is not traveling -- would it be common that the two of them would be physically
interacting with each other?

MS. GRAFF: Not any more than he did with his other two children.

MR. SWALWELL: Again, you seem to want to protect him or give an
answer in the negative. Is there a reason for that?

MR. FUTERFAS: Object to the form of the question.

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MS. GRAFF: | -- to the best of my recollection, she was an employee of the
Miss Universe Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: I'm going to show you what's marked as exhibit 3, a
photograph from the Miss USA Pageant.

[Graff Exhibit No. 3
Was marked for identification.]

MR. SWALWELL: It's a photograph from the Miss USA Pageant previously
identified as so by previous witnesses. Do you recognize anyone in that photo?

MS. GRAFF: | do.

MR. SWALWELL: Other than Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | do.

MR. SWALWELL: Who do you recognize?

MS. GRAFF: It looks like on the far end Keith Schiller.

MR. SWALWELL: Who else?

MS. GRAFF: Next to him, Larry Glick.

MR. SWALWELL: Larry Glick?

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SWALWELL: Who is he?

MS. GRAFF: He's an employee of The Trump Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: What does he do?

MS. GRAFF: He oversees a lot of the golf projects.

MR. SWALWELL: Who's next to Mr. Glick?

MS. GRAFF: It looks like Michael Cohen.

MR. SWALWELL: Who is next to who looks like Michael Cohen?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

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Moscow in 2013 for your testimony today?

MS. GRAFF: No. Just -- no, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Why not?

MS. GRAFF: | only reviewed the documents that were given to me in the
prep. And if it wasn't there, | would've had no reason to review it.

MR. SWALWELL: And your lawyers gave you the documents for the prep?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And they did not give you the documents for Moscow.
Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: | didn't look through every page in the book, so to the best of
my knowledge, | didn't see it.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you told anything about the testimony that Donald
Trump Jr. provided to this committee?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SWALWELL: What is TAG Air?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my knowledge, | think that's the entity that
manages our airplane.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you a governor of TAG Air?

MS. GRAFF: | don't even know what that means.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. So, if there are public reports that said that you
were -- or public filings that you were a governor of TAG Air, Inc., would that be
correct?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea. I'm hearing this for the first time.

MR. SWALWELL: On your work cell phone, do you use any messaging

apps?

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anymore. So they left, correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did they leave?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know the exact date. Probably early February, end of
January, shortly after inauguration. ;

MR. SCHIFF: Who else had offices proximate to Mr. Trump's?

MS. GRAFF: There's another young woman on our team that does some of
the writing, some of the PR. And she has an -- it's not really an office. She's
sitting in an alcove across from me. She's a little bit secluded, but she's across
from me.

MR. SCHIFF: And what's her name?

MS. GRAFF: Meredith McGiver.

MR. SCHIFF: Does she still work for the organization?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, she does.

MR. SCHIFF: The two junior assistants who are no longer with the
organization, did they keep their own telephone logbooks?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Did they keep their own files when they would write up email
messages for Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. FUTERFAS: Excuse me one second.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: Is your residence in Trump Tower as well?

MS. GRAFF: No, it's not.

MR. SCHIFF: Let me ask you about some of the history of Mr. Trump's

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MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is it possible that he has?

MS. GRAFF: Possible, but not likely.

MR. SWALWELL: Has he ever text messaged you on that phone?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recollect.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Jared Kushner? Has he ever called you on
your work phone?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Has he ever text messaged you?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Ivanka? Has she ever called you?

MS. GRAFF: On my cell phone? Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Text messaged

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: So, if Mr. Trump calls you on the number that you had
programmed in your phone for him, does it show up as Donald Trump, or does it
show up as a blocked number?

MS. GRAFF: Back then, | think it just -- because that's how | had it
programmed, | think it just said D. Trump. So | would --

HR Ore minute.

MS. GRAFF: -- know that it was from him.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back.

MR. KING: I'm trying to think of something to ask you about.

MS. GRAFF: Okay. Well, I'm still here, so if you remember it.

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he had other people to handle his emails for him. And, frankly, | don't think he'd
get any business done if he was spending all day looking at his emails. | mean,
that was --

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever suggest to him, like, come on, Mr. Trump,
it's time to get an email address like everyone else?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone ever suggest that to him?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Those phone logs that you referenced where you would
write down -- | think you called it the phonebook, where you would write down the
people who had called --

MS. GRAFF: Just a spiral notebook, you know, with lines and then if
somebody called. It was merely just for him to keep track if he was traveling or if
he was in a meeting and then when he wanted to find out, you know —-

MR. FUTERFAS: Just one second.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. SWALWELL: Where are those phone logs today?

MS. GRAFF: We have a closet near my office where we store lots of photos
and logs of letters and things.

MR. SWALWELL: And can you preserve those logs so that, should we wish
to request them, that we could come back and review them?

MS. GRAFF: | don't see a problem with that.

MR. SWALWELL: You said Jessica Macchia. How do you spell that?

MS. GRAFF: Macchia.

MR. SWALWELL: Macchia.

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MS. GRAFF: So | vaguely recall during -- after the President won the
election, | started receiving calls, representatives of -- all the world leaders, Angela
Merkel, Teresa May, the Israeli Government, Benjamin Netanyahu. And they all
wanted to place congratulatory calls to the President.

And | was the person most of the time that their representative would call me
and say: When can we schedule a time for our leader, our President,
whoever -- whatever their title was, can call the President and say, you know,
"Congratulations, you know, President Trump, and we look forward to working with
you"?

And it's just all very -- from what | understand, that was protocol whenever
there was a new President. So | don't recall the specifics, but in all likelihood,
since Putin was one of the major world leaders, and we usually had them numbered
who, you know, the important ones down to the less important ones, | could have
spoken with somebody there to arrange a congratulatory call.

MR. SCHIFF: And do you recall whether somebody called on Mr. Putin's
behalf to arrange a congratulatory call --

MS. GRAFF: I'm sorry. Do | recall what?

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall whether somebody contacted you during the
transition to arrange a congratulatory call for Mr. Trump with Mr. Putin?

MS. GRAFF: | don't remember the specifics of it.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, apart from the specifics of it, do you remember whether
someone called to --

MS. GRAFF: | don't -- | can't confirm it. | can't confirm it.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. I'm -- you know, | want to make sure we're not

parsing words here.

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about his contacts with the Russian Ambassador?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you ever privy to any conversations Mr. Flynn had with
anyone about his discussions with the Russian Ambassador or any other Russian
national?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever meet Mr. Papadopoulos?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall meeting him.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss Mr. Papadopoulos with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss Mr. Flynn with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever discuss Mr. Comey with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Mr. Comey? No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm going to ask you a number of summary questions, based

on what you've testified. If ! am misunderstanding what you've said, please let me

know.
MS. GRAFF: Okay.
MR. SCHIFF: With respect to the Trump Tower meeting on June 9th, apart
from the conversation you had with counsel and the conversation you had with
Ms. Miller, you never discussed that meeting in Trump Tower with anyone else?
MS. GRAFF: Correct.
MR. SCHIFF: With respect to the President's business deals or hoped-for
business deals in Russia, you never discussed those business deals with anyone?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

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speaking engagements. | have a folder of all correspondence regarding the
speaking engagement that he had, and | would keep it there. Some documents
didn't need to be saved. | was just so overwhelmed with paperwork; it really wasn't
relevant to keep. It really depended.

MR. SCHIFF: So some you would file and some others you would throw
out?

MS. GRAFF: Yes. And then, also, since we evolved into basically
email -- when | first started, we didn't have email. Things have changed so
dramatically. | really don't even need to print anything out. It stays there on the
computer. So --

MR. SCHIFF: And what about the phone log, is that a physical book?

MS. GRAFF: It's a physical book, uh-huh, correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you go through that book to determine whether any
of the entries in that book were relevant to the investigation?

MS. GRAFF: There's not one particular book. | mean, there are several
books, you know, dated. | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know whether anyone else did, in terms of meeting
the production requirements of the committee?

MS. GRAFF: | don't -- | don't know. | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, we'll have to follow up afterwards on these issues.

Let me go back to when you first met Mr. Trump and started your
organization. Did you start with the organization prior to meeting him, or did he
interview you for the job? Was it the first time you met?

MS. GRAFF: | -- | -- | was in sports marketing for several years, and my

mother became ill, and | had -- | couldn't travel anymore. So | was starting from

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MS. GRAFF: No, | don't -- to the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SCHIFF: There were allegations that the Russians backed Trump
Organization loans through Deutsche Bank. Have you been -- are you aware of
any discussions, have you been present for any discussions concerning whether
the Russians were either laundering money through The Trump Organization or
guaranteeing loans for The Trump Organization through Deutsche Bank?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not. No, | am not.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you ever present for any discussions with Mr. Trump
concerning WikiLeaks?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: And apart from counsel, have you ever discussed WikiLeaks
with any members of The Trump Organization or Trump campaign?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, at 11 a.m., when we began, one of Mr. Schiff's
first questions was whether you still had Mr. Trump's phone number in your phone,
and it's now 3:30. Did you have an opportunity to check to see, without telling us
the number, if it is still in your phone?

MS. GRAFF: _ | can do that now if you'd like me to.

MR. SWALWELL: That would be helpful.

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: When was the last time you talked to Mr. Trump,

President Trump?
MS. GRAFF. President Trump? It was my -- the company gave me a

surprise 30th anniversary party, and | guess somebody had told him that it was a

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Mr. Trump was similar to the relationship that you had with Mr. Trump as far as
closeness?

MS. GRAFF: Again, | think closeness is a very vague term. | don't really
understand.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, would Mr. Trump ever fly Mr. Schiller and
Mr. Schiller's family somewhere, as he did with you?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you have a personal email account?

MS. GRAFF: Ido now, yeah. I do.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you set that up?

MS. GRAFF: Maybe, | don't know, a couple of years ago.

MR. SWALWELL: And who was the provider for that?

MS. GRAFF: Who set that up?

MR. SWALWELL: Who was the provider? Was it Gmail? Yahoo?

MS. GRAFF: It's Gmail. Gmail.

MR. SWALWELL: And have you ever contacted anyone regarding your
work for Mr. Trump on that personal email?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: And is that something that you've checked in preparation
for your testimony today?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: You referenced earlier that you had reviewed emails
between yourself and Mr. Goldstone in preparation for today.

MS. GRAFF: Uh-huh.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you review anything relating to Mr. Trump's trip to

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MS. GRAFF: | mean, obviously, they've changed now. | was a liaison
between him and all of our entities. | handled PR, some marketing. | worked on
some projects, speaking engagements. A little bit of everything. | wore many
hats. | was the office manager. We had an executive office. And! oversaw a
team of three, sometimes four other people.

MR. SCHIFF: And has your office always been at Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, it has.

MR. SCHIFF: The committee, to my knowledge, hasn't received any
documents from you, pursuant to our document request. Does that mean that you
have no documents relative to the investigation?

MS. GRAFF: | don't have any documents, no.

MR. SCHIFF: So the emails, for example, that have become public that
were sent to you from Rob Goldstone or from others, none of those emails are in
your possession?

MR. FUTERFAS: | think, to clarify, that The Trump Organization received
requests from your committee. All of the custodians were searched for responsive
documents, including any and all emails responsive by Ms. Graff. So they were all
collected under the auspices of Trump Organization, searches of Trump
Organization custodians, which included Ms. Graff.

MR. SCHIFF: Does that mean, though, Ms. Graff, that any personal emails
or text messages or other communications, calendars that you might have kept that
contain information relevant to the investigation would have been produced through
The Trump Organization or that you never possessed any such documents?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know. It was provided by our -- you know, our team

turned over everything. So | wasn't directly requested to turn everything over.

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MR. SWALWELL: And is it also fair to say that, after the Miss Universe
Pageant, you started to see Mr. Agalarov's name a lot more in the communications
to you?

MS. GRAFF: | wouldn't say a lot more.

MR. SWALWELL: Who was Rob Goldstone?

MS. GRAFF: He had -- to the best of my knowledge, he had some
relationship with the Agalarovs. | don't know the specifics of it.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump know who Mr. Goldstone was?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

| One minute, sir.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever see Mr. Trump and Mr. Goldstone
together?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, you've said a number of times that you don't recall,
you don't recall, you don't recall about different interactions Mr. Trump had.

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SWALWELL: How are you so certain that you have not seen
Mr. Goldstone?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, | don't recall seeing them
together.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Goldstone have Mr. Trump's cell phone number?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Would Mr. Goldstone email you from time to time to pass
along messages to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Again, just in preparation for this meeting and reviewing some

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MS. GRAFF: At the time when he had an office in Trump Tower?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, we can start then.

MS. GRAFF: | can't give you a specific answer. If he had an office in
Trump Tower, as other executives would do, if they wanted to speak to Mr. Trump,
they'd walk down the hall and go in his office and talk to him.

MR. SCHIFF: So Mr. Sater's office was on the same floor as Mr. Trump's?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: And is he someone that would not need to go through a
gatekeeper, he could just walk into Mr. Trump's office?

MS. GRAFF: As with all our other top -- well, | don't know what his title was,
but for most people in the company, Mr. Trump was very accessible.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, he wasn't a top executive of the company, was he?

MS. GRAFF: He wasn't -- | don't know what his title was.

MR. SCHIFF: Was he an employee of Trump Organization?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know that.

MR. SCHIFF: But he could walk in on Mr. Trump any time?

MS. GRAFF: It was not unusual for him or anyone else.

MR. SCHIFF: So he would not have needed to email you or call you with
regard to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, we were not that formal.

MR. FUTERFAS: Excuse me.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know what type of business Bayrock Group was?

MS. GRAFF: It was not clear to me.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you know what kind of work Mr. Sater did for Mr. Trump?

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MR. SWALWELL: So it's possible, you just don't recall?

MS. GRAFF: Do | recall getting another number to reach Mr. Schiller on? |
don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you fill out the visa application for Mr. Trump to go to
Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: | don't remember.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you filled out visa applications before for
Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | want to make sure I'm accurate, and | don't recall. | don't
recall a specific country.

MR. SWALWELL: Were you ever responsible for being the keeper of
Mr. Trump's passport?

MS. GRAFF: His physical passport?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: | believe | had copies of his passport. | never had his
physical passport.

MR. SWALWELL: Who kept his passport?

MS. GRAFF: | believe he did.

MR. SWALWELL: On November 11, 2013, Mr. Trump made a deal with the
Crocus Group for Trump Tower in Moscow. When did you learn about this?

MS. GRAFF: When | read it in the papers.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you read it in the papers?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Going back to exhibit 3, if you look at the person next to

Mr. Trump, you said you didn't want to wager a guess.

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MR. SWALWELL: What do you recall?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall if he took his plane or if he took another plane.
I'd have to see it.

MR. SWALWELL: And if he took another plane, how would that work?

MS. GRAFF: It would have been likely chartered.

MR. SWALWELL: Who would be responsible for chartering it?

MS. GRAFF: | don't -~- in that particular instance, | can't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Just generally, if he was chartering a plane, who would
be responsible for setting up the charter?

MS. GRAFF: It depends what the event was. It would -- could on occasion
start with me, but not always.

MR. SWALWELL: What chartering companies would you go to if you had to
do that?

MS. GRAFF: It varied. It depended on what our pilot recommended.

MR. SWALWELL: Captain Dunkin?

MS. GRAFF: Captain Dunkin.

MR. SWALWELL: Would Mr. Trump ever fly on the planes of his friends?

MS. GRAFF: On occasion.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Who were some of the friends you remember
him flying on their planes?

MS. GRAFF: You know, | can't confirm unless | see it in front of me.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Phil Ruffin. Did he ever fly in Phil Ruffin's
plane?

MS. GRAFF: | can't confirm it. | mean -- | can't confirm it. But | --

MR. SWALWELL: Who is Phil Ruffin?

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MR. SCHIFF: During the course of the campaign, did you continue to
manage or have a role in the then-candidate Trump's schedule?

MS. GRAFF: Marginally.

MR. SCHIFF: And tell me about that.

MS. GRAFF: Well, | still -- | worked for The Trump Organization. | did not
work for the campaign. So he was still in meetings with Trump
Organization-related matters, and so | kept that calendar.

MR. SCHIFF: And who was responsible for his schedule otherwise?

MS. GRAFF: You mean campaign-related matters?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: The campaign team.

MR. SCHIFF: And how did you coordinate Mr. Trump's schedule, given that
he had certain organizational business scheduling requests as well as campaign
scheduling requests?

MS. GRAFF: Well, it kind of evolved over time, but if the campaign needed
him to go to an event, they would call me and say: You know, he needs to fly
somewhere. Is he available that day?

And | would look on the electronic calendar and say he has a commitment for
something or, you know, he's free. And they would do the scheduling.

MR. SCHIFF: And prior to the campaign, would you handle his travel
arrangements as well?

MS. GRAFF: Most of the time.

MR. SCHIFF: So you would be responsible for booking the airplane tickets
and hotel reservations unless he used one of his own aircraft?

MS. GRAFF: Ninety-nine percent of the time he used his own jet, his own

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MS. GRAFF: To my best of my recollection, they met when Mr. Trump went
to Moscow for the Miss Universe Pageant. And | believe that was the first time that
they met each other.

MR. SCHIFF: And have you ever met either Emin or Aras Agalarov?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SCHIFF: And what do you know of the relationship between Mr. Trump
and Aras Agalarov?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know the nature of their relationship.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, you indicated to Mr. Bannon that the President-elect
knew him well. On what basis did you conclude that Mr. Trump knew Aras well?

MS. GRAFF: Because he had met him when he was over in Moscow for the
Miss Universe Pageant.

MR. SCHIFF: And do you know anything more about the relationship
between Mr. Agalarov, Aras Agalarov, and Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SCHIFF: And | think you said you never got a reply from Steve
Bannon?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: So you wouldn't know what response Steve Bannon gave or
what followup Steve Bannon did as a result of this email?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you discuss this email with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you discuss it with anyone else in the office?

MS. GRAFF: Not to the best of my recollection, no.

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MS. GRAFF: | installed two apps.

MR. SWALWELL: Which apps?

MS. GRAFF: Confide and WhatsApp.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you install those?

MS. GRAFF: This was at the suggestion of my 22-year-old son, and it was
maybe a year or 2 ago.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Was it before the campaign or during the
campaign?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: And would you ever communicate with anyone in The
Trump Organization on WhatsApp or Confide?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: And is that something that you've gone back and
reviewed to make sure? In your preparation for today, did you check --

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not. No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Sorry. Please.

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. So is it possible that you have communicated
with individuals from The Trump Organization?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you attend the Miss USA Pageant in 2013 in Las
Vegas?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm sorry. 2013 where?

MS. GRAFF: In Las Vegas, he said.

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you know, during the campaign.

MR. SCHIFF: And Mr. Kushner, who would his equivalent executive
assistant have been?

MS. GRAFF: Well, he didn't have an office at The Trump Organization. |
don't recall the name of his assistant.

MR. SCHIFF: When the President would travel with members of the family
last year or prior to that, would you coordinate with their staff in terms of the travel
logistics or tell them what arrangements you had made for the plane or where Mr.
Trump would be staying?

MS. GRAFF: There could have been one or two instances, but unlikely.

MR. SCHIFF: And_how would that coordination have taken place?

MS. GRAFF: If it was for -- if it was for purely family vacation reasons, they
were going down to Mar-a-Lago for a holiday vacation, then | would be in
communication. But if it was a campaign-related event, | had very little to do with
any campaign-related travel or coordination.

MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Cohen, did he have a role with The Trump Organization,
Michael Cohen?

MS. GRAFF: Michael's title was, | believe, legal counsel for The Trump
Organization. | don't have his business card; | can't give you his exact title.

MR. SCHIFF: And do you know who would have made his travel
arrangements when he was traveling on behalf of the organization?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: And for Ivanka Trump, do you know who his equivalent
assistant would be, hers?

MS. GRAFF: When she was at The Trump Organization?

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MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Apart from your counsel, have you discussed the meeting at
Trump Tower with anyone else?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SCHIFF: | yield back to Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you.

Ms. Graff, you've testified with a lot of certainty that you did not talk to
anyone about the June 9th meeting, didn't tell the President, didn't talk to Don Jr.
But with most of the questions today, your answer has been "| don't recall."

I'm trying to understand, how are you so certain on the June 9th meeting as
to what you did and did not do, but with most of the questions we've had today "I
don't recall" seems to be your answer?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to the form of the question. I'll permit you to
answer it if you understand it.

MS. GRAFF: This was a communication between Rob and Don Jr. | was
not even cc'd on any of the communications. And as | mentioned, | was driving
with my family on July 11 up to our vacation. And the first | ever heard of this
meeting was when | found out that my name was tagged at the bottom of it. And
then | called our office and said: {| don't understand. Why is the press calling me?

| had absolutely no idea that any of this happened.

MR. SWALWELL: Where's that closet where the phonebook is?

MS. GRAFF: It's a storage closet.

MR. SWALWELL: Which floor?

MS. GRAFF: I'm sorry?

MR. SWALWELL: Which floor?

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you verified that it was okay for them to come up?

MS. GRAFF: Do they have a physical record of that?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Trump also lived in Trump Tower. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he live there the entire time that you were working
there?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: And did you ever know of Mr. Sater to go up to Mr.
Trump's penthouse?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Was there a log of who would go into Mr. Trump's
penthouse?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my knowledge, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever see Mr. Sater and Donald Trump Jr.
together?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever see Mr. Sater and Jared Kushner together?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you ever see Mr. Sater and Mr. Cohen together?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Where was Mr. Cohen's office in Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: His offices were on the 26th floor as well.

MR. SWALWELL: And the 26th floor was where Mr. Trump's office was?

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you'd like to think it is.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm just trying to understand, the calls that got through
to Mr. Trump were the ones that you deemed important enough for him to see,
right?

MS. GRAFF: The names that | recognized or the ones that | thought -- yes.
| did my best to do that.

MR. SCHIFF: And you would write them down in a log, right?

MS. GRAFF: If he spoke with them directly, there was no reason to write
them down in a log. We kept a running record usually if he couldn't take the call or
if he was traveling, so he would know when he had a free moment that this person
called so he could return the call. That was the only reason to keep the log. It
was not to record every single call that came in.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, I'm not asking about every single call. But if someone
that Mr. Trump was doing business with, someone whose name you recognized at
the time but may not remember today, called and sought to speak with Mr. Trump
and he was not available at the time they called, would you write their number
down, or would you just throw it out?

MS. GRAFF: | would, if | had the opportunity to write it down and | was able
to do it, | would do my best to do it.

MR. SCHIFF: And you would write it in the phone log?

MS. GRAFF: In the phonebook. | hate to even call it a log because, again,
that sounds very formal, and it wasn't quite that formal at all.

MR. SCHIFF: But you'd write it in the phonebook?

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SCHIFF: Okay. So, turning your attention to document 897. These

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MR. SWALWELL: I'll yield back.

HE, {nother 15 minutes.

MR. KING: Actually, if | could just take a minute. Not that | was at Trump
Tower that often, but I'm surprised you have such a recollection of all these names.
| would have lost track after 5 minutes.

MS. GRAFF: It's a lot of names.

MR. KING: It's like Grand Central Station: | would just like to put that on
the record.

MR. SWALWELL: But you don't stay at your job as long as you did unless
you know those names, right?

MS. GRAFF: | mean, over 30 years, thousands and thousands and
thousands of names. It's hard -- | mean, you get older, it's hard to recall, but | do
my best.

MR. SWALWELL: And you said earlier that, for the junior assistants, it's a
dead-end job, but you've been there now with an office next to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Uh-huh, right.

MR. SWALWELL: So, Ms. Graff, who traveled with Mr. Trump to Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: Again, | told you | don't have the itinerary in front of me, so |
can't confirm.

MR. SWALWELL: That's something that would be a part of the itinerary?

MS. GRAFF: It would be.

MR. SWALWELL: And that would include who was in the traveling party?

MS. GRAFF: It should have.

MR. SWALWELL: How did Mr. Trump get to Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: I'd have to look at the itinerary to --

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emails, | think, are in reverse order so they start from the bottom.

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SCHIFF: The bottom email is one, on June 3, 2016, from Rob
Goldstone to Emin Agalarov. Have you read this email before?

MS. GRAFF: In preparation for this meeting, | read it.

MR. SCHIFF: And was that the first time you read the email in preparation
for this meeting?

MS. GRAFF: | believe that | read it when | first heard about the email.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did you first hear about the email?

MS. GRAFF: | was driving with my family up to vacation. We were on
vacation. And | got an email from a reporter asking me about this email. And my
response, not to the -- because | didn't speak to the reporter directly -- was, what
email? | had no idea what this was about.

MR. SCHIFF: And when would that have been?

MS. GRAFF: What date was that? | think it was July 11.

MR. SCHIFF: And so you get this call from the reporter. You're --

MS. GRAFF: | think it was an email, if | recall, probably.

MR. SCHIFF: And you were traveling at the time?

MS. GRAFF: | was in a car with my family on our way to vacation.

MR. SCHIFF: And did the reporter send you the email, or did you go
somewhere else to look at the email?

MS. GRAFF: No, I'm sorry. It came into my email box.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm not sure | follow.

MS. GRAFF: | have an iPhone, and I'm still checking in with the office to

see what was going on periodically. As most businesspeople would do, | check my

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MR. SCHIFF: Counsel, do you know whether that's been provided to the
committee?

MR. FUTERFAS: | have no idea. The email -- | think we're talking about
two different emails. There was the email that Ms. Graff received from a reporter,
and then there's the email that's the exchange from June 3rd to June 9th. I'm not
really sure which we're talking about.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, there are at least two emails we're talking about here.
There's a reporter emailing you about this and asking for comment.

MS. GRAFF: On July 11th.

MR. SCHIFF: On July 11th of this year, correct?

MS. GRAFF: Of 2017? Yes -- no.

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: 2017, this year? Yes, it would have to be.

MR. SCHIFF: And there's the email in which you communicated to
someone back at the office? Or did you make a call to find out what is this all
about?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, as | stated before, | was in the
car with my family, and | was just checking my emails as | would in the course of a
day, and an email popped up. | don't think it was -- | think it was from two different
outlets, asking about my knowledge or wanting to talk to me about my name being
on the bottom of an email that Don had posted.

And when | read it, | go, | have no idea why are the -- why is the press
emailing me? And | called my office. | think | spoke to Amanda Miller, who
handled press for The Trump Organization. And | said, "Amanda, what's going on?

Why am | getting press calls?" And she said, "Oh, Don posted an email and your

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MR. SCHIFF: Mr. Swalwell.

MR. KING: Adam, if we switch --

MR. SWALWELL: May we have one moment?

MR. FUTERFAS: Sure.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you.

MR. SCHIFF: Can we take a short break?

MR. FUTERFAS: Yes.

[Recess.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Thank you for the break, | appreciate it.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, during the campaign, would it be fair to say
that when Mr. Trump was on the road, Mr. Schiller would be with him?

MS. GRAFF: Most likely.

MR. SWALWELL: And if Mr. Schiller was at Trump Tower, Mr. Trump would
be at Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily, but most likely.

MR. SWALWELL: You mentioned earlier that you had traveled down a
couple times with your family to Florida with Mr. Trump. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Was that to West Palm Beach?

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with a home that Mr. Trump purchased
in West Palm Beach in 2004?

MS. GRAFF: Can you be more specific?

MR. SWALWELL: Sure. From Abraham Gosman on

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A To the best of my knowledge, he's a marketer/promoter.

Q How often, roughly, would he email you?

A In preparation for this meeting, | looked through some of the emails.
It seemed to be very infrequent. There was just a handful of them.

Q And do you believe the subject line here, "Emin," do you believe that
to be Emin Agalarov? The subject line "Emin." ,

A And do | -- I'm sorry, so what was the question?

Q Do you believe that to be Emin Agalarov?
A Logically, yes.
Q

What was the relationship between Mr. Goldstone and the Agalarov

family?
A | have no idea.
Q The email -- I'll just try to expedite this a little bit -- invites Mr. Trump to

travel to Moscow for the elder Agalarov's birthday. Did Mr. Trump make that trip?

A No, he did not.

Q | want to focus your attention to the top email there. Quote: "I totally
understand re Moscow -- unless maybe he would welcome a meeting with
President Putin which Emin would set up," end quote. That's from Goldstone to
you.

Uh-huh.

Did Mr. Trump ever go to Moscow and meet with President Putin?
Not to my knowledge.

Do you recall showing this email to Mr. Trump?

No, I do not.

Oo FD F HD >Y

Do you recall discussing it with anyone else?

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MR. SCHIFF: What carrier did he use for his phone?

MS. GRAFF: Our IT person gave him the phone. | don't know what phone

he was using.

MR. SCHIFF: And who would pay the phone bills?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: And who would we need to talk to to find out how to access
phone records?

MS. GRAFF: Probably somebody in our IT department.

MR. SCHIFF: And who.heads the IT department?

MS. GRAFF: Who heads it? A gentleman by the name of Jay Cho, C-h-o.

MR. SCHIFF: And Mr. Cho would know how we could identify the right
phone records to get?

MS. GRAFF: | can't confirm that, but he's the head of the IT department.

MR. SCHIFF: Now, your testimony is that you don't know what his phone
number was last year?

MS. GRAFF: You mean his cell phone number --

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: -- or his office number?

MR. SCHIFF: His cell phone number.

MS. GRAFF: | don't know. He had -- | think he changed his phone, and |
certainly don't remember it now. Now that he is in Washington, | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm not asking what his number would be now. But in terms
of his cell phone last year or up until last year, you don't know what the cell number
was?

MS. GRAFF: | had it programmed in my phone, but | can't tell you -- if

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remember.
MR. KING: It was very separate from you is the point I'm making.

MS. GRAFF: Correct, correct.

HSV. Graff, we really appreciate your time.
Merry Christmas to everybody. We're adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 3:30 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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leaving. You know, | can't tell you who was there then and, you know, that's the
person who's sitting there now. | can't answer that.

MR. SWALWELL: When individuals come to Trump Tower, do they sign the
visitor log?

MS. GRAFF: No, they do not.

MR. SWALWELL: You told Mr. Schiff earlier that sometimes you would use
your personal cell phone to communicate with individuals at The Trump
Organization. Do you remember talking about that?

MS. GRAFF: Well, no, I'm sorry. Let me clarify. It's not my personal cell
phone. It's my -- it's a phone that was given to me by The Trump Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: That was my next question. So, from 2013 to today,
how many cell phones have you had? Some people have --

MS. GRAFF: [Nonverbal response.]

MR. SWALWELL: So you've only had one. So your work phone is
essentially your personal phone?

MS. GRAFF: [use it on occasion to make personal phone calls to members
of my family, but it's primarily -- it was given to me by The Trump Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: So, if your friends or your family want to, you know, send
you a message or wish you a happy birthday, they would be sending that to your
work phone?

MS. GRAFF: They do.

He minute, Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Which -- so Don Jr., has he ever communicated with you
on your work phone?

MS. GRAFF: Has he called me on my cell phone?

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interested in doing? And I'd put it in his inbox. And then whenever he got to the
mail, which could be days later or weeks later, depending what was going on, he'd
put something in his outbox, and then | would act on it.

. You know, there were hundreds of calls that would come in every day.
Managing the calls, managing the emails. Just a very busy office. Each day had
its own personality.

MR. SCHIFF: And when people would email him or make requests, those
were transmitted to him, either in writing by something you would write up and put in
his inbox or something you would relay to him personally?

MS. GRAFF: It really depended on the email. It was my discretion.

MR. SCHIFF: Correct. But you wouldn't forward him emails. He didn't
read email on any of his devices?

MS. GRAFF: He does not have email. He doesn't have an email address.
He does not have email.

MR. SCHIFF: And how about text, does he receive text messages?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: So -- well, prior to this year, you never text messaged Mr.
Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Never.

MR. SCHIFF: And, to your knowledge, others didn't text message him?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: And what phone number was he using last year? Let me
preface by saying this: He's not using the same phone this year as he was using
last year?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

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MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you deleted any emails?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you been told by anyone to delete any of your
emails?

MS. GRAFF: Have | been told by whom?

MR. SWALWELL: Have you been told by anyone at The Trump
Organization to delete any of your emails?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Has anyone told you to delete emails?

MS. GRAFF: No, they have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Would Mr. Sater ever call you to speak to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | mean, what's the timeframe?

MR. SWALWELL: Let's just say from 2013 forward.

MS. GRAFF: Well, | don't know when he had an office. | don't recall when
he had an office in our building, you know, on The Trump Organization on my floor.
| mean, if he was on the floor and he wanted to speak to Mr. Trump, as | stated
before, you could walk down the hall and talk to him.

Since he left, | don't recall any conversations or calls that came through me,
certainly.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it the case that if you didn't know somebody and
they tried to go into Mr. Trump's office, that you would stop them or Mr. Schiller
would stop them?

MS. GRAFF: If | didn't know somebody? Well, assuming that they passed

the first test, which is to get up through into the reception area, that they had a

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get reaction from Mr. Trump. You don't recall any press organizations calling, as
someone working out PR, to figure out, strategize, how are we going to deal with
this PR issue?

MS. GRAFF: Again, what year was this?

MR. SCHIFF: It was 2013.

MS. GRAFF: 2013. I mean, that's, from my perspective, light years away,
light years ago. Honestly, | can't recall. But, you know, there is so much media
attention all the time on multiple issues and subjects. That does not ring a bell with
me.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, this was 4 years ago, so it wasn't --

MS. GRAFF: To me, that's a long time.

MR. SCHIFF: And how many international money laundering indictments
were returned in that time involving the Trump orbit?

MS. GRAFF: | can't answer that.

MR. SCHIFF: It's not the kind of event that would stand out in your
memory?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily.

MR. SCHIFF: When you got the call from the reporter about the meeting in
Trump Tower, you were traveling. You called back to the office --

MS. GRAFF: It was nota call. It was an email.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm sorry. Okay. And who did the email come from?

MS. GRAFF: | have to look at it. | don't know offhand.

MR. SCHIFF: Would that email have been produced to the committee?

MS. GRAFF: | believe it was in the material. | saw -- in preparation for this

meeting, | saw the email that this reporter sent to me.

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interactions with Russia and his business opportunities in Russia. In Mr. Trump's
1987 book, "The Art of the Deal," he mentions talks with the Soviet Ambassador
Yuri Dubinin about building a large luxury hotel across the street from the Kremlin,
in partnership with the Soviet Government. That deal was ultimately unsuccessful.

You started with his organization at the end of what year?

MS. GRAFF: In October of '87, and the book came out roughly around the
same time.

MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall those efforts to build a project in Moscow that
he was referring to in that book?

MS. GRAFF: Not at all.

MR. SCHIFF: That came before you joined the organization?

MS. GRAFF: Based on the timing you described to me, apparently so.

MR. SCHIFF: The book also mentions Mr. Trump hosting President
Gorbachev at Trump Tower. Was that a time when you were in the employment of
The Trump Organization?

MS. GRAFF: | don't believe so.

MR. SCHIFF: Have you ever traveled with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | have.

MR. SCHIFF: And how often. would you travel with him?

MS. GRAFF: It was more social. When he would go down to Palm Beach
on spring break, he was very gracious enough to invite me and my family to fly on
the plane with him. So, on occasion, we would go down, and then sometimes we
would fly back with him.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever do any international travel with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

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scratch. And | just called, cold-called an agency. | think | saw an ad, and they
said there was a well-known -- they didn't identify who it was. They said there was
a well-known real estate developer who was looking for a senior or junior assistant.

And so | called them and | -- you know, they told me they filled the position.
They hadn't gone in, but at the time | called, the position was already filled. And so
they said: I'll let you know if it's open.

And then I, on my own initiative, | don't know, | put two and two together, and
| thought it was Mr. Trump. So | cold-called the office and said that | heard there
was an opening. And | got through to his senior assistant at that point, and | said:
I'm interested in the position that you may have. And she said: Why don't you
come in?

So | came in, | don't know if it was that afternoon or the next day. And
| -- she brought me in to meet Mr. Trump. It was a very brief interview. And then |
sat down with her. And they said: Well, okay, why don't you start on Monday? It
all happened very quickly.

MR. SCHIFF: That was the first time you ever met him?

MS. GRAFF: That was the first time | ever met him.

MR. SCHIFF: | forgot to ask you a question.

MS. GRAFF: Yes, sure.

MR. SCHIFF: This is unusual for us to be in New York conducting an
interview.

MS. GRAFF: Thank you for coming. | appreciate it.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you unwilling to come to Washington?

MS. GRAFF: No. [twas just more convenient. Not unwilling at all. |

appreciate your coming up here.

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MR. SCHIFF: Well, let me break it down a bit then. Did you keep a
calendar for Mr. Trump up until this year?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | did.

MR. SCHIFF: And where did you keep that calendar?

MS. GRAFF: It was an electronic calendar.

MR. SCHIFF: Was that an electronic calendar that was kept on your own
computer, on the work computer?

MS. GRAFF: It was kept on the work computer.

MR. SCHIFF: And have those calendars been turned over as a part of the
document production?

MR. FUTERFAS: To the extent, again, Ms. Graff wasn't, just like any of the
other custodians weren't, personally involved, all of that electronic data is kept by
the organization and to the extent that there was anything responsive, those
documents were turned over.

MR. SCHIFF: Does that mean, Counsel, that if we go through The Trump
Organization production, that we will find the calendars that Ms. Graff kept, for
example, for the dates involving the Trump Tower meeting?

MR. FUTERFAS: Sure. Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And did you ever use personal communications to
communicate with Mr. Trump or to conduct any of the business of Trump
Organization?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Did you ever use your own phone to text message
individuals, Mr. Trump or others, in the organization?

MS. GRAFF: Not Mr. Trump. Certainly not Mr. Trump.

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message along to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: How about made a phone call to you to try and connect
with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Not that | can recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Steve Bannon at Trump Tower on June 9th of
2016?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Is there a way to find out?

MS. GRAFF: Not in my records unless there was some specific meeting
that he had with Mr. Trump that needed to be on his calendar.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know the name Ike Kaveladze?

MS. GRAFF: No, it doesn't sound familiar to me.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Rinat Akhmetshin?

MS. GRAFF: Doesn't sound familiar.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Alex Sapir, S-a-p-i-r?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, that name does sound familiar to me.

MR. SWALWELL: How do you know him?

MS. GRAFF: Alex, | believe, is with -- was with -- the name of the company
escapes me, but | think we -- his company was the company that we worked with on
Trump SoHo.

MR. SWALWELL: How about Rodem (ph) Rosen, R-o-s-e-n?

MS. GRAFF: | think he was also working for the same company as Alex
was, Alex Sapir.

MR. SWALWELL: Was that Bayrock?

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becoming President, is that something that you might have known about, being the
person who handled his PR or his schedule?

MS. GRAFF: Did | handle every single press appearance that he ever did?
Did | handle every, you know, everything related to him? No. And it's very
likely -- sometimes when he traveled, he did interviews. | had no control over it.
There were a lot of things -- you know, | did it to the best of my ability, but | couldn't
control everything.

MR. SWALWELL: So your testimony to us today is that you were not a part
of Mr. Trump's appearance in a Roger Stone documentary?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall having anything to do with it.

MR. SWALWELL: In 2015 and 2016, from the time Mr. Trump became a
Presidential candidate to when he was elected, did you ever see Mr. Stone at
Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: From the time -- you mean during -- from transition to
inauguration?

MR. SWALWELL: No.

MS. GRAFF: I'm sorry. Can you repeat that again?

MR. SWALWELL: During Mr. Trump's candidacy until election day, did you
ever see Mr. Stone at Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: | can't give you a specific date. | may have, but | can't give a
specific date.

MR. SWALWELL: Why do you think you may have?

MS. GRAFF: Why do! think | may have? Because | think -- | don't
want to -- | don't want to presuppose.

MR. SWALWELL: | just want you to tell us what you remember.

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all of the Miss Universe Pageants. That was an entity that he co-owned with NBC,
and that was just part of the PR and the marketing for the pageants.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if there was an intent to go on that trip for
reasons beyond Miss Universe, for establishing business in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Mr. Trump assigned or given a phone by Miss
Universe when he went to Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Is that something that has happened before, where if
he's in another country, a local phone has been provided to him?

MS. GRAFF: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: And is that something that you'd remember because
you're in charge of staying in touch with him and keeping track of where he is?

MS. GRAFF: Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

MR. SWALWELL: Was Mr. Schiller given a local Moscow phone while he
was in Russia?

MS. GRAFF: | can't speak for Mr. Schiller. | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, you testified earlier that if you wanted to get a hold
of Mr. Trump and you didn't want to bother him directly, you would have to call
Mr. Schiller, right?

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SWALWELL: And so, if Mr. Schiller was assigned or given a phone by
Miss Universe while he was in Russia, that's something that would have had to
have been communicated to you. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall. | don't recall.

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MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: There was a young woman. | believe her name was Susie
Acosta, but | can't give you the dates that she was there. She left in the course of
the -- | think during the campaign as well.

MR. SCHIFF: And how about for Eric Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Eric's assistant at that point was Lynn, and | can't -- I'm sorry,
| can't produce her last name. Her first name was Lynn.

MR. SCHIFF: | take it you didn't play any role in the Kushner Companies?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SCHIFF: Or the SCL Group?

MS. GRAFF: What is the SCL Group?

MR. SCHIFF: That probably answers my question.

And | assume you had no role in the Trump golf courses, the LLCs, or
anything of that nature?

MS. GRAFF: Only from a PR perspective and marketing.

MR. SCHIFF: When the -- in terms of PR, when the meeting in Trump
Tower became public, the meeting with the Russian lawyer Veselnitskaya and Rinat
Akhmetshin with the President's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager, were you
involved in any of the PR efforts to deal with that?

MS. GRAFF: Not at all.

MR. SCHIFF: What role did you play with respect to The Trump
Organization's subsidiaries?

MS. GRAFF: Can you give me a specific instance?

MR. SCHIFF: Well, take let's say the furniture business. Did you have any

role in any of the PR for the subsidiaries, any of Mr. Trump's activities vis-a-vis the

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MR. SCHIFF: Any others you can think of outside of family that would be
able to contact him directly without going through you?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know. | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: So no one else comes to mind at this point?

MS. GRAFF: Not anybody specifically. | don't have his phone. You know,
| don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: We can only-ask for your best --

MS. GRAFF: Correct, correct. To the best of my knowledge, | don't know
who else.

MR. SCHIFF: So, other than this small group of people and family, when
people wanted to reach Mr. Trump, they would call you or email you. They didn't
text you, | assume?

MS. GRAFF: Never.

MR. SCHIFF: And you would write it up and you'd put it in the inbox. And
he would write back and put it in your box, or how did you get that back?

MS. GRAFF: You're asking specifically about phone calls or emails? I'm
sorry. If you could just --

MR. SCHIFF: Well, | was asking about both, if there's a different process for
either.

MS. GRAFF: Okay. There was no specific protocol. If people called the
office and Mr. Trump was there, somebody on his team would vet the call. Usually
come in through the receptionist. You know, if she knew that name, she would put
the call either to me -- there were two assistants that sat outside his office, so the
call could go to them as well, depending if my line was busy. And if that was a

name they'd recognized, they would generally go into Mr. Trump's office and say,

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EXAMINATION
oy

Q Thank you, Ms. Graff. | just wanted to follow up on the ranking
member's question. You had no role in the campaign at all?

A | interacted with people on the campaign if they had a scheduling
question, something like that, but very, very minimal.

Q Is it fair to say that, if anything came to you that was
campaign-related, you'd pass it on?

A Correct.

Q We talked earlier about the Agalarov family, Emin and Aras. Do you

recall that?
Do | recall what?
Q The discussion about the Agalarov family.
A Just the question | was asked?
Q Yes.
A Yes, | recall.

Q Do you happen to know when Mr. Trump met the Agalarov family?
I'm sure I'm butchering the name.

A | don't know the exact date and time.

Q Do you have any reason to believe they are connected at all to the
Russian Government?

A | would have absolutely no idea.

Q The next series of questions I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask for
your broadest possible interpretation. Don't do what lawyers often do and get hung

up on whether it's admissible or you believe it or -- so just keep this broadly in mind

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going in and out of his office. | didn't take all the phone calls that were coming in.

So did | have full knowledge of everything that happened in the course of a
day between Don and his father? He could very easily come upstairs to see his
dad and walk right in his office.

I'm busy. I'm reading emails. I'm on the phone. There's a million other
things going on. I'm multitasking. And | don't -- | can't -- | never in my head say,
Don's been in there five, six times today or he's called five times. | can't answer to
that degree of specificity.

MR. SCHIFF: You can't answer with any degree of specificity.

MR. FUTERFAS: Object to the characterization of the testimony.

MR. SCHIFF: | think the characterization was very diplomatic.

MR. FUTERFAS: | think the transcript will speak for itself.

MR. SCHIFF: But in any event, do you know whether Mr. Trump was in the
building, in Trump Tower, on June 9th of last year?

MS. GRAFF: | have no idea.

MR. SCHIFF: And what kind of records would be kept that would indicate
whether he was in the building that day?

MS. GRAFF: Well, we have an -- | have an electronic schedule. And so
there's a good chance that it would say whether he was traveling or if he had
in-office meetings. So --

MR. SCHIFF: And, you know, again, just to reiterate, Counsel, if those -- if
the schedule for those days has not been produced to the committee, we would ask
that that be produced.

MR. FUTERFAS: Okay.

MR. SCHIFF: And I'll yield back to Mr. Swalwell.

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MS. GRAFF: On the 26th floor.

MR. SWALWELL: Where on the 26th floor?

MS. GRAFF: Right outside where Mr. Trump's office is.

MR. SWALWELL: And, again, | think we mentioned this earlier with the
emails, but we are requesting that those phonebooks be preserved.

MR. FUTERFAS: Okay.

MR. SWALWELL: How would you describe the relationship between
Donald Trump Jr. and his father, from what you observed?

MS. GRAFF: Oh, that's for Don to describe, not for me.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, you observed Donald Trump Jr. and his father,
right?

MS. GRAFF: | think it's a typical father/son relationship. | don't think there
was anything unusual.

MR. SWALWELL: What did you observe?

MS. GRAFF: What did | observe?

MR. SWALWELL: Were they close?

MS. GRAFF: | think as close as any father and son would be.

MR. SWALWELL: So close that Don Jr., when you -- when Mr. Trump
became President, now holds a role of executive vice president. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: When he -- wait. So you're saying Don became EVP when
his father became President?

MR. SWALWELL: Donald Trump Jr. has been promoted throughout the
years in The Trump Organization. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: As have all his children.

MR. SWALWELL: And today he's the executive vice president, Donald

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"Mr. Trump, so-and-so is on the phone." And he would either say, "Yes, I'll take
the call," or, you know, "Tell them | can't right now." If he was in a meeting, you
know, we didn't want to announce who was on the phone, and so we'd bring it to
him on a little yellow stickie, "so-and-so is calling.". And then he'd say, "I'll take the
call," or "Tell them I'll call them back."

Emails would come in. As he did not have email, they would either come to
me or one of the other two junior assistants.

MR. SCHIFF: And was it the same practice for all three of you, that you
would write up or abbreviate the email and then put it in his box?

MS. GRAFF: It really depended on who the email was from. If the email
warranted his seeing it, then | would print it out and give it to him. If it was
somebody that | didn't think | needed to bother him with, | would use my discretion
and respond to them. So, again, every situation was completely different.

MR. SCHIFF: And the situations where you thought it warranted his
attention, in the case of emails, you would either print out the email or you'd write a
summary of the email and you'd leave it in his box?

MS. GRAFF: Or if it was time-sensitive, | would go in to him and say:
So-and-so needs an answer on this. What would you like to do?

Because, again, he couldn't get -- sometimes he didn't see emails for days at
a time or weeks at a time, and, you know, | didn't want it sitting there and then miss,
you know, something that was time-sensitive. And then he would give me a
response and then | would, you know, go from there.

MR. SCHIFF: - And in those cases where you would write up a message,
either because he was busy or he wasn't in the office —-

MS. GRAFF: Right.

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[2:12 p.m]

MR. SCHIFF: And when they would communicate when he was in the
office, do you know whether that was generally by the President's son coming to Mr.
Trump's office, or would it be by phone?

MS. GRAFF: You want me to make a generalization?

It was a mix. It was probably a mix of both, based on the convenience or
the nature of whatever they had -- the discussion was about. 1 don't know the
specifics.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, help us out here. We can ask a bunch of questions
or --

MS. GRAFF: I'm doing my best.

MR. SCHIFF: -- you can just tell us what you can about the relationship and
how they would communicate with each other. | mean, we can go question by
question, but it's a lot easier if you can tell us what you know about their
relationship.

MR. FUTERFAS: Asked and answered. | think she's done that repeatedly.
And I'll permit a few more questions, but | think that this same question has been
asked a number of times. And, you know, I'll permit another question or two, but |
think this has been explored.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, the questions have certainly been asked, but we're
trying to help your client's recollection a bit.

So what can you tell us about the nature of how they would communicate,
whether it was generally in person or by phone, how often a day would they be in
touch with each other, to the best of your knowledge?

MS. GRAFF: Okay. Well, as | explained before, | didn't see everybody

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dealings?

MS. GRAFF: Do |?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: You mean when I'm at work?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes, with your family.

MS. GRAFF: Again, I've been there 30 years. There are tens of thousands
of names going around in my head, all kinds of names, you know, from multiple
countries. And to keep track of them all, I'd be impressed with myself if | was able
to do that. | do it to the best of my ability, but it's not an easy job.

MR. SWALWELL: But how does anyone get through to Mr. Trump? How
did anyone get through to Mr. Trump with any order if you can't sort any of these
names?

MS. GRAFF: There were certain names that were familiar to me that |
knew. You're giving me a name that | am not familiar with.

MR. SWALWELL: But we agreed --

MR. FUTERFAS: | just want to be clear. You're talking about this Roman
person, right? The name that you just --

MS. GRAFF: Right. Is that who you're referring to? Did | -- was Roman
familiar to me. And I'm saying | don't recall that particular name.

MR. SWALWELL: Again, just to go back to this, because | think it's still
unclear, Emin and Aras, you know them, aside from any preparation for today, as
people that Mr. Trump would routinely write back and forth to.

MS. GRAFF: Not routinely.

MR. SWALWELL: You know them as individuals that Mr. Trump would

communicate with.

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MR. KING: But over the course of years -- over the course of the years,
would he appear, not appear, be in, be out?

MS. GRAFF: In and out. In and out, yes.

MR. KING: Also a person who liked to play up his own reputation?

MS. GRAFF: | would say that's a fair assumption.

MR. KING: Nothing else.

MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Graff, just to follow up on my colleague's question, in the
relationship between Don Sr. and Don Jr., if Don Sr. said that a business decision
would be X, was Don Jr. in a position to overrule his father?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: In your experience, would Don Jr. make significant business
decisions that would affect the future course of business without consulting with his
father?

MS. GRAFF: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SCHIFF: And do you know whether that same dynamic would hold true
in the campaign, would Don Jr. likely make significant decisions in the campaign
without consulting his father?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Knowing what you do of their relationship, though, could you
imagine that the son would seek the approval of the father for significant campaign
decisions?

MR. FUTERFAS: | object to anything that she would imagine. | don't think
it's relevant, | don't think it's pertinent.

MR. SCHIFF: | didn't ask what she imagined.

MR. FUTERFAS: The question included the word would she imagine

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MS. GRAFF: | don't think he knew Moscow very well and certainly not in a
position to say, "I want to stay at such-and-such a hotel." It was usually up to
Paula Shugart to determine what was the best hotel, the most comfortable hotel to
stay at, and then typically she would make a recommendation.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it the Ritz-Carlton Hotel? Does that refresh your
recollection?

MS. GRAFF: It doesn't ring a bell.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know if he stayed in a presidential suite on that
trip?

MS. GRAFF: | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know an individual named Alimzhan
Tokhtakhounov? Do you know that name?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay. Do you know an individual by that name who
lived in Trump Tower, if that refreshes your recollection?

MS. GRAFF: It doesn't ring a bell.

MR. SWALWELL: Or who owned a condo in Trump Tower?

MS. GRAFF: It doesn't ring a bell.

MR. SWALWELL: Prior to Mr. Trump's trip to Moscow in 2013, he said in an
MSNBC interview regarding Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, he said: | do
have a relationship, and | can tell you that he's very interested in what we're doing
here. He's probably very interested in what you and | are saying, and I'm sure he's
going to be seeing it in some form. But!do havea relationship with him, and |
think it's very interesting to see what's happened.

Did Mr. Trump ever talk to you prior to going to Moscow in 2013 about a

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MS.
MR.

MS.

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GRAFF: Uh-huh.
SWALWELL: Is that Emin Agalarov?

GRAFF: Well, as | said, | can't confirm meeting him. | have seen

pictures of him, and | can't confirm if it was recently, but he's dressed like a rock

star.

MR.
MS.

FUTERFAS: Who's dressed like a rock star?

GRAFF: He's got that -- you know, he's not a businessman, obviously.

| mean, | don't know.

MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.

SWALWELL: So you know Emin to be a rock star?

GRAFF: That's my understanding.

SWALWELL: How did you know that?

GRAFF: From PR that I've seen about him.

SWALWELL: Have you ever seen him in Trump Tower?

GRAFF: | don't recall seeing him.

SWALWELL: But that doesn't mean he wasn't there, | guess?
GRAFF: Correct.

SWALWELL: Is it fair to say that Mr. Trump's relationship with the

Agalarovs started as far as you were concerned once the Miss Universe contest

took place in Moscow?

MS.
MR.

GRAFF: | don't know.

SWALWELL: Well, as the person who, again, receives his emails,

takes his phone calls, you probably have a good sense of when Mr. Trump's

relationships would begin, right?

MS.

GRAFF: The first time | heard his name was in connection with the

Miss Universe Pageant.

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MS. GRAFF: It really depended on the project and what was going on.
There were some days that | was consumed with email, and he was busy in
meetings, and | had no reason to see him.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, who else would have had similar access to Mr. Trump,
let's say last year and the year before, when he was in the office?

MS. GRAFF: He had an open door policy, so he was very accessible. And
anybody basically who worked in the company who stuck their face in the door and
looked like they wanted to talk to him, he'd usually say, "Come on in." And so it
could be multiple people.

MR. SCHIFF: Multiple people had the same access on a day-to-day basis
that you did with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, they did.

MR. SCHIFF: Where is your office located with respect to Mr. Trump's
office?

MS. GRAFF: It's right next door.

MR. SCHIFF: How many other people have offices right next door?

MS. GRAFF: Well, | mean, the way the office is positioned, his office is on
the end. He has a corner office. There is no office on the other side of him. So
I'm the first office next to his office.

MR. SCHIFF: So your office has the closest proximity to Mr. Trump than
anyone in the company?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, it does.

MR. SCHIFF: And you would see him when he was in the office on a daily
basis?

MS. GRAFF: If he was in the office, yes.

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MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, would Mr. Trump ever require your assistance
to connect with his son by phone? Is that something that you would regularly do?

MS. GRAFF: Not regularly at all.

MR. SWALWELL: Would he dial out on his own if he was at his desk, Mr.
Trump?

MS. GRAFF: He often dials out, yes.

MR. SWALWELL: Would he also ask you for assistance to connect with
somebody?

MS. GRAFF: You mean not particularly his son, just anybody?

MR. SWALWELL: Sure.

MS. GRAFF: Yes. Sometimes he was very busy, so he asked somebody
to place a call for him. And then we did and we'd say, so-and-so is on the line.

MR. SWALWELL: And was it the case that in 2015 and 2016, when he was
a candidate, that you ever connected Mr. Trump and his son Don Jr. by phone?

MS. GRAFF: | can't recall a specific instance.

MR. SWALWELL: Is it something that you remember doing, though?

MS. GRAFF: No, I do not.

MR. SWALWELL: On June 29th, 2016, Mr. Goldstone emailed you, Dan
Scavino, Donald Trump Jr. and Konstantin Sidorkov. The subject line was:
Russia's largest social media network "VK" offers Trump Campaign message to
over 2 million registered Russian American voters in the United States, Bates
stamped 454. We'll mark | think as exhibit -- 6? Five.

[Graff Exhibit No. 5
Was marked for identification.]

MR. SWALWELL: Do you recall this email?

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plane.

MR. SCHIFF: And in those cases, what role did you have in terms of
logistics or travel arrangements?

MS. GRAFF: | would call our pilot, our chief pilot, and say: Mr. Trump
needs to go to L.A. He needs to leave on such and such a date and return on such
and such a date, so just could you make whatever plans you need to make in
conjunction with that?

MR. SCHIFF: And what records would you keep of his travel?

MS. GRAFF: | would usually do an itinerary for him. So | put down
basically, you know, when he was leaving, who was flying with him, who he was
meeting with when he went there. It was just, you know, so everybody knew what
he was doing, where he was going.

MR. SCHIFF: And who would you provide that itinerary to?

MS. GRAFF: | would send it to the pilot. | would share it with the people on
the other side who he was meeting with, so they knew when he was arriving, when
to expect him, if they could make ground arrangements for him on the other side.

I'd share it with the person who was traveling with him, and in most instances, it was
Mr. Schiller, so he knew what to expect.

MR. SCHIFF: You would keep a copy, | assume, for your own records, so
you knew where he was, what hotel and --

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: -- how to reach him?

MS. GRAFF: Yes.

MR. SCHIFF: And how would you archive those records?

MS. GRAFF: Ihave a file. They're likely still on my computer, but | printed

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[12:41 p.m.]

MR. SWALWELL: And who do you remember before those two?

MS. GRAFF: Oh, my gosh. Who preceded them? | can't pull up the
names out of my hat right now. | can think of the young woman's face, but | can't
recall her name.

MR. SWALWELL: You talked about the IT person being responsible for
giving Mr. Trump his cell phones. Just going back to 2013, so from 2013 until he
became President, how many different phones do you recall Mr. Trump having?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall how many.

MR. SWALWELL: How many different phone numbers do you recall him
having?

MS. GRAFF: | think he may have switched it once when some
Congressman or somebody in public gave out his cell number, and | think he was
forced to. | think it went public.

MR. KING: Don't look at me.

MS. GRAFF: It was somebody, | think, he had given out maybe Lindsey
Graham's. | don't know. | don't recall, but | know that he had to change it because
it was -- it was made public somewhere. And obviously --

MR. SWALWELL: Was that during the campaign?

MS. GRAFF: | don't remember the exact timeframe, but, you know, he was
forced to change it.

MR. SWALWELL: Why doesn't Mr. Trump have email?

MS. GRAFF: Why doesn't he?

MR. SWALWELL: Why doesn't he email?

MS. GRAFF: He's just not technologically interested in having email. And

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MR. SCHIFF: Do you recall in connection with the communications with
Mr. Goldstone on the day after the Trump Tower meeting whether he discussed that
he had been in the building the day before?

MS. GRAFF: | wasn't aware of the Trump Tower meeting to begin with, so |
don't recall any of that.

MR. SCHIFF: Were you aware that Mr. Goldstone had been in the building
the day before?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SCHIFF: So you didn't see him that day in the building?

MS. GRAFF: The day of the meeting that | learned about way after the
meeting happened?

MR. SCHIFF: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not aware of it.

MR. SCHIFF: And you don't recall seeing, | take, Mr. Emin Agalarov in the
building?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SCHIFF: Or any of the Russian delegation?

MS. GRAFF: No, | do not.

MR. SCHIFF: | just want to follow up on the questions my colleague was
asking. You've worked for Mr. Trump for 30 years --

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: -- and in that time, undoubtedly, seen Mr. Trump with his son.
And yet you can't tell us anything more about the relationship other than it's a typical
father/son relationship, of which I'm not really aware of anything being typical about

a father/son relationship.

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Trump."

Do you recall what the attachment to this email is, what it contained?
In preparation for this meeting, | think there was a letter attached.
Do you recall the subject of that letter?

No, | do not.

Are you familiar with the June 9th, 2016, meeting at Trump Tower?
No, | am not.

You're not. The meeting -- strike that.

Let me clarify.

Go ahead.

> oO F DPD F DH F DO PY

Other than what's been in the papers.

Q Correct. That was exactly the answer | -- you have no knowledge of
it in real time, that is to say, in June of 2016?

A Correct.

Q How about following that, and I'll time limit it between June of 2016
and the end of 2016, did you learn of it at all?

A No, I had no knowledge of it.

MR. KING: Before, you mentioned that Michael Cohen was legal counsel to
The Trump Organization.

MS. GRAFF: | don't know what his exact title was. He was one of our
attorneys.

MR. KING: But you knew him?

MS. GRAFF: Yes.

MR. KING: During the time he was there, did he ever discuss with you a trip

to Prague?

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MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SWALWELL: And did you affiliate these individuals -- do you affiliate
these individuals with Felix Sater, or associate them as being people you've seen
with Felix Sater?

MS. GRAFF: | believe at one point Felix worked with Bayrock, but | can't
confirm that.

MR. SWALWELL: Yield to Mr. Schiff.

MR. SCHIFF: Ms. Graff, have you ever met Mike Flynn?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | have.

MR. SCHIFF: And when did you meet him?

MS. GRAFF: | met him, | believe, during the transition period.

MR. SCHIFF: And what were the circumstances in which you met him?

MS. GRAFF: Well, the whole transition team would often during transition
period come up and talk to Mr. Trump. And since my office is right next to him and
I'd be walking around, and | either introduced myself to him or he introduced himself
to me, as did the other people in the -- the new people in the transition team.

MR. SCHIFF: And how often did you see Mr. Flynn during the transition?

MS. GRAFF: I'd say -- you know, | don't know. It depended what was
going on. It depended if he needed to speak to Mr. Trump. | can't -- | can't give
you a specific number.

MR. SCHIFF: How many times, if you can, approximately, did he need to -
see Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Between November 7th and January 18th? I don'tknow. |
really don't know.

MR. SCHIFF: Can you give us a ballpark? Is it more than a dozen?

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MR. SCHIFF: And yet you think there were others that had the same kind of
access to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, | do.

MR. SCHIFF: And saw him every day as often as you did?

MS. GRAFF: Again, every day was a different day. It depended what was:
going on.

MR. SCHIFF: Every day is always a different day.

MS. GRAFF: Correct.

MR. SCHIFF: But I'm asking, as a whole, were there any other members of
The Trump Organization that had the consistent proximity or access to Mr. Trump
as you did?

MR. FUTERFAS: | think the question has been asked and answered about
three times.

MR. SCHIFF: It's been asked about three times. It really hasn't been
answered.

MR. FUTERFAS: Can | finish my objection, please? | just want to note for
the record | think the question has been asked and answered a number of
occasions by Ms. Graff. I'll certainly permit her to answer it one last time, but | just
wanted to note that. Thank you.

MS. GRAFF: Well, the two other young women that | mentioned earlier, the
two executive assistants who sat right outside his office.

MR. SCHIFF: And who are those young assistants?

MS. GRAFF: Jessica Macchia and Katie Murphy.

MR. SCHIFF: And they left the employment of The Trump Organization?

MS. GRAFF: We didn't need them anymore. We didn't need them

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MR. SWALWELL: Could that be Rob Goldstone?

MS. GRAFF: It's not a clear picture. It could be.

MR. SWALWELL: Who's next to Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: | can't confirm.

MR. SWALWELL: Who do you think it is?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you learn that the 2013 Miss Universe Pageant
would be held in Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know the exact date.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it relative --

HRS. Swatwell, 1 minute.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it relative to the Miss USA Pageant in Las Vegas?

MS. GRAFF: | don't think they were connected.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you assist Mr. Trump in planning the Moscow trip?

MS. GRAFF: | did not -- no, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: Why not?

MS. GRAFF: Because | would work with Paula Shugart who handled all the
logistics in the scheduling.

MR. SWALWELL: So, | guess, through working with Ms. Shugart, you were
assisting Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: You know, not directly, but ultimately. | mean --

MR. SWALWELL: But you were working with Ms. Shugart for Mr. Trump to
get to Moscow?

MS. GRAFF: | worked with her on the scheduling and the timing.
HR That's time, sir.
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2017?

MS. GRAFF: January 6th, 2017?

MR. SWALWELL: This year.

MS. GRAFF: | most likely was. | don't know what day of the week it was,
but that was just before the President left for Washington.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you remember an intelligence briefing provided to Mr.
Trump that day by James Comey, John Brennan, and James Clapper?

MS. GRAFF: | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: You weren't a part of setting up that briefing or making
accommodations for that?

MS. GRAFF: No, | was not.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you recall those individuals being in the building that
day?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know what they all look like, but, no, | would not know.

MR. SWALWELL: Well, they were the most senior intelligence officials for
the United States and they'd come to Trump Tower. Is that something that you
would remember if you saw it?

MS. GRAFF: As | stated before, at some point the campaign and the
transition team took over all the scheduling. | was pretty much out of it. | was a
Trump Organization employee, and they wouldn't fill me in on something like that.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you see -- do you know who James Comey is?

MS. GRAFF: Well, | do now.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know who John Brennan is?

MS. GRAFF: | know the name --

MR. SWALWELL: Do you know who James --

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MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, once for the Miss Universe
Pageant.

MR. SWALWELL: Is it possible that he had gone any time prior to the Miss
Universe Pageant while you were working for him?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Has Mr. Trump ever been to St. Petersburg, Russia?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: In 2008, Donald Trump Jr. said, while in Russia, that:
"Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.
We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

Is that something that you observed while working for Mr. Trump in 2008?

MS. GRAFF: I'm not going to speculate on what Don wrote or the reason
why he wrote that.

MR. SWALWELL: |'m just asking is that something that you observed, that
money was pouring in from Russia?

MS. GRAFF: | would have no access to that information. | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: But you certainly, as somebody who received emails,
phone calls, and visit requests, would have some sense of who was doing business
with Mr. Trump. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: Of money pouring in?

MR. SWALWELL: I'm just asking you, from where you sat and the
information that you had, did you see anything that reflected what Donald Trump Jr.
said about money pouring in from Russia?

MS. GRAFF: No, | did not.

MR. SWALWELL: In 2014, Eric Trump is reported as saying: "We don't

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MS. GRAFF: Not really. Itwas the condo. It has nothing to do with The
Trump Organization.

MR. SWALWELL: You don't remember the FBI coming to Trump Tower in
2013?

MS. GRAFF: Coming into The Trump Organization offices, is that what
you're saying?

MR. SWALWELL: I'm just asking if you recall.

MR. FUTERFAS: Listen carefully to the question.

MS. GRAFF: Sure, okay.

No, | do not recall. No, | do not.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back.

MR. FUTERFAS: Hold on one second.

[Discussion off the record.]

MR. FUTERFAS: Okay, thank you.

MR. KING: Ms. Graff, where was Donald Trump Jr.'s office located?

MS. GRAFF: On the 25th floor of Trump Tower.

MR. KING: You were asked before if Donald Trump Jr. ever made a
decision without getting his father's approval. Were you in a position to know every
decision that Donald Trump Jr. would make?

MS. GRAFF: Absolutely not.

MR. KING: Is there any reason why he would let you know what decision he
was making?

MS. GRAFF: He had no reason to share that with me.

MR. KING: Is there any reason for you to think that he was not making

decisions on his own, one way or the other?

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MR. SCHIFF: Were there others in The Trump Organization, though, that
you would text message?

MS. GRAFF: Usually just confirming meetings if it was -- | was at home and
we needed to confirm a meeting. Very innocuous things like that.

MR. SCHIFF: Well, some of those meetings may be very relevant. Have
those text messages been provided to the committee? I'm not sure that those
would be in the possession of the organization.

MS. GRAFF: | --1--

MR. FUTERFAS: If there are any responsive text messages, we will provide
them. We're not aware of any responsive text messages, given the subject matter
jurisdiction of this investigation, that are relevant or responsive, but we are certainly
prepared to review them anew or again to see if there are any relevant or
responsive text messages.

MR. SCHIFF: But to date, you haven't done a review of your own
electronics to determine whether you have possession of any messages or
communications that are relevant to our investigation?

MS. GRAFF: Our team has full access to all of my information, whatever
texts they need, and they told them, you know, you have -- whatever you need to
find, it's all there. | have not kept anything from anybody. | have no reason to.

MR. SCHIFF: I'm not suggesting you have a reason to. | just want to find
out if we have received all the relevant documents.

Did you make your phone accessible to those that were doing the production
to go through your text messages --

MS. GRAFF: Of course.

MR. SCHIFF: -- and determine any relevance?

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MR. SWALWELL: It's a really simple question. Have you seen the two of
them interact physically when they're in the same building together?

MS. GRAFF: Yes, of course. Of course, | have.

MR. FUTERFAS: I'll permit you to answer.

It's asked and answered, but I'll permit her to answer the question.

MR. SWALWELL: No, Counsel, she's not asking and answering. She's
saying "I don't recall" or giving us something that starts with a negative.

MR. SCHIFF: Counsel --

MR. FUTERFAS: I'm letting her answer every one of your questions. To
the extent | object to the question, I'm putting it on the record. | am not interfering
with your questioning. Please continue.

MR. SWALWELL: Ms. Graff, if Mr. Trump was on the 26th floor and Donald
Trump Jr. is on the 25th floor, would it be common that Donald Trump Jr. would
come up and visit with his father?

MS. GRAFF: If he had something to discuss with his father, he would.

HM That's time.

MR. SWALWELL: | yield back.

MR. KING: Ms. Graff, during the campaign, let's say June of 2015 until
election day 2016, do you have any approximate of how many emails you would get
every day?

MS. GRAFF: Well, it escalated, you know, further along into the campaign.
| mean, at that point, | mean, | lost count. | could never catch up. | mean, it was
teally an impossible job.

MR. KING: And even before the campaign, would you get any emails in the

course of the day?

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MR. SCHIFF: I'm going to yield to Mr. Swalwell.

MR. SWALWELL: Thank you, Ms. Graff. Good morning.

When you joined The Trump Organization, did you sign a nondisclosure
agreement?

MS. GRAFF: In 1987, | don't believe so. No, | don't believe so.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you signed one from 1987 to today?

MS. GRAFF: |! believe I have.

MR. SWALWELL: When did you sign it?

MS. GRAFF: | don't -- | can't give you the timeframe.

MR. SWALWELL: Was it in the last 5 years?

MS. GRAFF: Maybe longer than that.

MR. SWALWELL: Maybe 10 years?

MS. GRAFF: It could be.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you signed one recently?

MS. GRAFF: No, | have not.

MR. SWALWELL: Who had you sign the one that you signed?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall. | don't recall specifically who asked me to sign.

MR. SWALWELL: Do you believe that that nondisclosure agreement limits
your testimony in any way today?

MS. GRAFF: Not at all.

MR. SWALWELL: Have you ever been deposed before?

MS. GRAFF: A while ago, | think two times.

MR. SWALWELL: With respect to what?

MS. GRAFF: Once, it was a grand jury. It involved -- it involved Al

Sharpton. And | think Mr. Trump had written a check to one of his charities, and |

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MS. GRAFF: I'm vaguely familiar with it.

MR. SWALWELL: How are you familiar with it?

MS. GRAFF: Because | know that was a big real estate deal for him from a
PR perspective. | remember that was a big real estate deal.

MR. SWALWELL: And what do you -- what was your knowledge of the deal
at the time?

MS. GRAFF: | wasn't involved in the specifics of the deal. | was only
involved in it from a PR perspective.

MR. SWALWELL: Did Mr. Trump talk to you about it from a PR
perspective?

MS. GRAFF: You mean when he was doing the deal?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: Well, | don't think he talked about it until the deal -- he would
usually not talk about a deal until it was done.

MR. SWALWELL: Once Mr. Trump purchased the home at
HE clic) he make any improvements on the property?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Did he ever talk to you about any improvements that he
was making?

MS. GRAFF: To the best of my recollection, no.

MR. SWALWELL: Are you familiar with the sale of that property in 2008?

MS. GRAFF: Vaguely.

MR. SWALWELL: And the sale of the property, which was bought in 2004
for $41 million, was for $95 million. Is that right?

MS. GRAFF: | don't know if that was the exact amount, but | know it was

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MS. GRAFF: In preparation for this meeting, | recall seeing it.

MR. SWALWELL: What did you do when you received this email?

MS. GRAFF: Well, to the best of my recollection, | was cc'd on it. Don was
the lead person. It does get confusing at times when multiple people are cc'd. My
guess is, given all the emails that were addressed to me directly, that | did not act
on it, but | can't recall for sure.

MR. SWALWELL: Did anyone ever follow up with Mr. Goldstone's VK
contact?

MS. GRAFF: Not to my knowledge.

MR. SWALWELL: On June 17th, 2016, Mr. Trump sent a note to Emin
thanking him for the birthday gift, and an email from Meredith McGiver to Jessica
Macchia with the attachment emingift.doc. The attachment is a note from Donald
Trump to Emin, and it's Bates stamped 404 to 405.

I'll show it to you as we get the documents. Do you recall --

MS. GRAFF: I'd like to see it.

MR. SWALWELL: I'll bring it to you in a second before | refer to it.

Do you recall Mr. Trump writing notes back and forth to Emin or his father
Aras?

MS. GRAFF: In preparation for this meeting, | saw some of the documents.

MR. SWALWELL: If Emin wrote today, would he be someone that was
completely unknown to you, or would he be someone that you had knowledge of as
being in contact with Mr. Trump?

MS. GRAFF: If he wrote to me, if he sent me an email today, would | know
who he is?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

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legitimate meeting, | could not -- the way my office was positioned, even though it
was right next door, | couldn't see around the bend who was going in and out of his
office. So | have no -- | can't confirm.

MR. SWALWELL: So, if Mr. Sater had gotten into Mr. Trump's office, that's,
because he had gotten through a person who would be able to determine if he was
able to go that far?

MS. GRAFF: Again, are you making a distinction when he was at the -- an
employee -- not an employee, because | don't know that, but when he had an office
on the floor of The Trump Organization?

MR. SWALWELL: Yes.

MS. GRAFF: If he was -- when he had his office on the floor of The Trump
Organization, | did not look outside my door -- I'm busy with work -- who was going
in and out of his office. Could he have walked in? Yes. | have no idea.

MR. SWALWELL: And your testimony earlier was that you actually do
remember him going into Mr. Trump's office?

MS. GRAFF: No, | don't -- no, | don't think | said that.

MR. SWALWELL: Okay.

MS. GRAFF: | said he -- you know, he would have accessibility to Mr.
Trump's office, just as any other person in The Trump Organization would have.

MR. SWALWELL: Now, after Mr. Sater left, after Mr. Sater left Trump
Tower --

MS. GRAFF: Right.

MR. SWALWELL: -- would you see him go into Mr. Trump's office?

MS. GRAFF: | don't recall.

MR. SWALWELL: Is it possible that he had?

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