U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

WASHINGTON, DC 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

WORLDWIDE AIRCRAFT 

SERVICES, INC. 

Respondent 

Friday, 

Docket No. FAA2013-0045 

Case No. 

2009S0150216 

February 28, 2014 

Via Teleconference 

1 

The above-entitled matter came on, 

pursuant to notice, at 2:00p.m., Eastern 

Time. 

BEFORE: 

(202) 234-4433 

THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, 

Administrative Law Judge 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

MR. WILLIAM P. VINES, ESQ. 

Federal Aviation Administration 

Office of the Regional Counsel 

P.O. Box 20636 

Atlanta, GA 30320 

(404) 305-5200 

(404) 305-5223 (fax) 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

MR. PAUL BOWEN, ESQ. 

Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc. 

c/o JET I.C.U. 

2561 Rescue Way 

Brooksville, FL 34604 

(352) 796-2540 

(352) 796-2549 (fax) 

Also Present: 

IRENE NEMESIO, Law Student Intern 

ANDY P. ORR, Law Student Intern 

CODY L. SMITH, DOT Staff Attorney 

NEAL R. GROSS 

2 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
3 

1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 (2:05p.m.) 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We' re on the record 

4 in the matter of Worldwide Aircraft Services, 

5 Inc. This is Docket Number FAA-2013-0045. 

6 Today is Friday, February 28th, 2014. The 

7 parties have convened for a short set motion 

8 conference. The motions that will be 

9 addressed today have both been filed by the 

10 respondent, and I'll be identifying them in 

11 just a moment. 

12 The Federal Aviation Administration, 

13 which I'll herein after refer to by its 

14 initials FAA, is represented by its attorney 

15 of record, William P. Vines. The respondent, 

16 Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc., has been 

17 represented by its president, Michael A. 

18 Honeycutt, a lay representative for the 

19 company. Mr. Honeycutt is not present, but 

2 0 appearing on the telephone today is a Mr. Paul 

21 Bowen, an attorney who is a friend of Mr. 

22 Honeycutt, who has offered to appear as amicus 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
4 

1 on his behalf today. And we'll address that 

2 in just a moment. 

3 Also present at the Office of 

4 Hearings sitting in as observers only are Mr. 

5 Cody L. Smith, an attorney with the Office; 

6 Mr. Andy P. Orr, a law student intern; and Ms. 

7 Irene Nemesio, a law student intern. Good 

8 afternoon to you all. 

9 MR. BOWEN: Good afternoon. 

10 MR. VINES: Good afternoon. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't I 

12 do this first? I'll simply note the history 

13 of this case to date. In essence, we had on 

14 February 4, 2014 an order granting/denying 

15 relief filed. And then we had, on February 

16 11, 2014, a notice of amended complaint filed 

17 by the FAA. 

18 Shortly thereafter, on February 21, 

19 2014, which was last Friday, Mr. Honeycutt, on 

20 behalf of the respondent, filed two motions. 

21 One was an objection to and motion to strike 

22 the amendment of the complaint and memorandum 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
5 

1 of law, and the second was respondent's motion 

2 to exclude certain witnesses specified in the 

3 complaint's witness and amended witness list 

4 and memorandum of law. 

5 So our first order of business is to 

6 decide whether or not Mr. Bowen should appear 

7 and be allowed to speak on behalf of the 

8 respondents in Mr. Honeycutt's place and speak 

9 in a capacity as amicus only for this motion 

10 conference. Mr. Vines, I turn to you. Do you 

11 have any objection to that? 

12 MR. VINES: No, Judge. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. There being 

14 no objection, Mr. Bowen, I will ask you to 

15 advise me where you are located and just to 

16 affirm that you have had recent contact with 

17 Mr. Honeycutt and that he has requested your 

18 participation and assistance. Can you 

19 identify that for us, please? 

20 MR. BOWEN: Sure. Paul Bowen. And 

21 I am at 35111 U.S. Highway 19 North, Suite 

22 101, in Palm Harbor, Florida. And that's 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
6 

1 about 40 miles outside of Brooksville where 

2 the airport facility is there. And I have, I 

3 am involved in other things with Mr. 

4 Honeycutt. Mr. Honeycutt is ln Brazil. He is 

5 unable to leave at the moment, and he cannot 

6 call in from the place that he is at. 

7 So I got a relaymessage email from 

8 the office indicating this and asking if I 

9 would go ahead and sit in for that. I replied 

10 to him that I would do so for this particular 

11 hearing only, and I got the message back that 

12 indicated that that was okay. And that's 

13 through an email. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when did you 

15 last correspond in that fashion with Mr. 

16 Honeycutt and/or his staff? 

17 MR. BOWEN: About 15 minutes ago. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 

19 Mr. Bowen, have you had a chance to review the 

20 FAA's amended complaint and/or the 

21 respondent's two motions that are before the 

22 Court today? 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
7 

1 MR. BOWEN: Yes. The one that I was 

2 mostly asked to deal with first would be the 

3 one that deals with the witnesses. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, we're 

5 going to do this with the amended complaint 

6 first since that was filed prior to the 

7 motion. 

8 MR. BOWEN: Okay. I didn't know 

9 that. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, we're going to 

11 do all of it today. I will simply note that, 

12 typically, in these kinds of cases, an 

13 amendment of a pleading can be done as a 

14 matter of right if the amended pleading or 

15 complaint is filed 15 days or more before the 

16 hearing. And this is under 14 CFR Section 

17 13.214. 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

MR. BOWEN: Yes, I read that. I 

read that because I think that that was 

referenced in Mr. Vines' letter to Mr. 

Honeycutt when he amended that. It's just the 

question of 

(202) 234-4433 

that this is what 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

Mike had 

www.nealrgross.com 
8 

1 indicated to me lS that the allegations are 

2 material to the complaint and that, since it's 

3 so short of a period of time, that it 

4 prejudices him because he doesn't have the 

5 ability to react to any of those new 

6 allegations because discovery is over. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. And I've 

8 looked through the notice of amended complaint 

9 and as I was reading the motion to strike the 

10 amended complaint, and I'm wondering, Mr. 

11 Bowen, if you could identify any prejudice 

12 based on the amendments that were provided by 

13 the FAA since they appear to be almost 

14 correction of clerical errors 

15 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- as opposed to 

17 any kind of substantial change ln the 

18 complaint. And I essentially am looking at 

19 the respondent's objection and motion to 

20 strike where he says that, where he, being Mr. 

21 Honeycutt, says that number three on page one 

22 of the 

(202) 234-4433 

objection, "The amendment was 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
9 

1 prejudicial. The complaint now adds several 

2 allegations that would change the respondent's 

3 strategy and add witnesses to the case.n 

4 On page two of the objection, in 

5 paragraph eight, Mr. Honeycutt alleges that 

6 the amendment has severely prejudiced the 

7 respondent. And I'm somewhat mystified, quite 

8 frankly, by these arguments when the amendment 

9 appears to simply correct a date in paragraph 

10 one of the complaint from February 18, 2013 to 

11 February 19, 2013 and correctly identify who 

12 received Mr. Honeycutt's request for a 

13 complaint. 

14 MR. BOWEN: Okay. Your Honor --

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I won't go into the 

16 rest, but it appears that there was just a 

17 clerical correction of which paragraph should 

18 have been referenced in paragraph eight and 

19 ten of the complaint. So I'm a little unclear 

20 as to what the new allegations are and how 

21 

22 

severe prejudice attaches. Could you 

MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, what I have, 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
10 

1 I mean, I understand your position, your 

2 Honor. If you feel that if there's no 

3 prejudice, I can't argue that right now. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, it's not my -

5 - let me finish. I guess I'm not saying I 

6 have a position. I'm just a bit mystified 

7 because I can't see where the prejudice is, so 

8 I want to give you an opportunity to enlighten 

9 me. 

10 MR. BOWEN: Yes. And I'm unable to 

11 do so at this moment. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't I 

13 turn to Mr. Vines. And, Mr. Vines, you've 

14 received this motion. Do you take a position 

15 about this objection and motion to strike? 

16 MR. VINES: Judge, I believe it's 

17 without merits, and I do agree with your 

18 position that it is just a change of clerical 

19 errors, two or three clerical errors. And by 

20 that, it is not material, which does not make 

21 it prejudicial. 

22 Finally, Judge, I would argue that 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
11 

1 the regulations allow the agency to make those 

2 changes if those changes are done prior to 15 

3 days before the date of the hearing. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Bowen, 

5 on behalf of Mr. Honeycutt and the respondent, 

6 do you have anything else that you would like 

7 to say or that you thought about saying since 

8 we last spoke a few moments ago? 

9 MR. BOWEN: No, your Honor. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What I'm 

11 going to do is I'm going to clarify again I 

12 don't have a position until I make a ruling. 

13 I do often have questions, though, and I thank 

14 the parties for answering them. I will agree 

15 with Mr. Vines that this particular motion to 

16 strike the amendment of the complaint is 

17 without merit. 

18 First and foremost, 14 CFR Section 

19 13.214 allows for this type of amendment 15 

20 days or more before the hearing. This 

21 particular amended complaint was filed on 

22 February 11, 

(202) 234-4433 

2 014' and, by 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

my rough 

www.nealrgross.com 
12 

1 calculation of the calendar, that means it was 

2 filed 21 days before the hearing. As such, it 

3 is an amendment that is done as a matter of 

4 right. 

5 The same regulation allows a 

6 respondent a reasonable time for a response to 

7 any amended complaint that's done by right. 

8 I think Mr. Honeycutt has perfected his 

9 ability to respond and object. I do not 

10 believe, however, that his objections are 

11 meritorious. And I will simply note his 

12 objection and deny the motion to strike at 

13 this time. The changes are allowed. 

14 I will also note that Mr. 

15 Honeycutt's arguments that these amendments 

16 were prejudicial and that they added several 

17 allegations that are material to the complaint 

18 are without merit and without support. So 

19 thank you very much on that particular motion. 

20 Let's go then to the second motion. 

21 And this is the respondent's motion to 

22 exclude, and I'm just going to set this up so 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
13 

1 that we're all talking about the same thing. 

2 On February 21, 2014, the respondent filed a 

3 motion to exclude three FAA witnesses, those 

4 witnesses being Michael Singleton, an FAA 

5 safety inspector; Martha Farmer, an FAA 

6 specialist; and David Dunn, an FAA specialist. 

7 And as I understand it, in looking 

8 at Mr. Honeycutt's materials, he's alleging as 

9 part of his motion to exclude that the failure 

10 to properly disclose these witnesses, two of 

11 whom he believes are experts that have not 

12 been identified as such, to have severely 

13 prejudiced the respondent to the point where 

14 he does not, they, excuse me, do not have the 

15 opportunity to be heard. 

16 And let me see if there was anything 

17 else I saw here. I don't think so. I'm going 

18 to go back. I want to look at one more thing. 

19 I'm sorry. I was looking at the 

2 0 objection to the amended complaint. There was 

21 an alternate motion in the objection to the 

22 amended complaint that moved to continue the 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
14 

1 trial. And I should note that, given the 

2 Court's ruling on the respondent's objection 

3 and motion to strike, that that ruling also 

4 should include a ruling in which the 

5 respondent's alternate motion to continue the 

6 trial for that reason is denied. So my 

7 apologies, folks, for not doing that sooner. 

8 Then the motion to exclude certain witnesses, 

9 it's my understanding that the motion was 

10 focused specifically on these three witnesses 

11 previously identified and an assertion that 

12 the respondent is severely prejudiced if their 

13 testimony were allowed. 

14 So, Mr. Vines, I'm going to start 

15 with you. You've received, I hope, a copy of 

16 the motion to exclude. Have you received it? 

17 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have 

19 any -- I know that you didn't have a chance, 

20 much of a chance to receive it. When did you 

21 recelve it? 

22 MR. VINES: Judge, we did receive, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
15 

l my office did receive this motion on February 

2 25th, so I have had sufficient time to review 

3 the motion. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So you 

5 received it Tuesday of this week. And I had 

6 issued an order earlier this week indicating 

7 that if you didn't have time to file a written 

8 response that I would be happy to entertain 

9 your oral response today. So did you file a 

10 written response? Because if you did, I don't 

11 have it. 

12 MR. VINES: No, Judge, I did not. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then why 

14 don't you take five or ten minutes, if you 

15 need it, and tell us what your response is to 

16 this motion? 

17 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I'll start 

18 with the witness, Michael Singleton, that the 

19 agency included on its February lOth exchange, 

20 that the complainant included on its list of 

21 witnesses and exchange of exhibits notice to 

22 the court. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
16 

1 First of all, Mr. Singleton was not 

2 recognized by the agency as a potential 

3 witness in the Federal Rules of Civil 

4 Procedure 26 disclosure. That was because it 

5 was not the agency's intent at the time to use 

6 Mr. Singleton. However, due to recent 

7 circumstances, the agency has decided to use 

8 Mr. Singleton. 

9 I want to also point out that the 

10 testimony expected by, that the agency expects 

11 to elicit from Mr. Singleton as an expert is 

12 the same information, the same testimony that 

13 the agency intends to elicit from Frank 

14 Schaefer, who was listed as a potential 

15 witness in the agency's Federal Rules of Civil 

16 Procedure 26 notice, as well as on the 

17 agency's list of witness and exchange of 

18 exhibit notice. It's the same testimony 

19 listed by, excuse me, it's the same testimony 

20 that the agency expects to elicit from Mr. 

21 Singleton is the same that's listed on that 

22 exchange of exhibit notice for Frank Schaefer. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
17 

1 So I would argue that the, that the 

2 respondent, rather, is not prejudice. I would 

3 also point out that this particular 

4 information, testimony that's expected to be 

5 elicited from Mr. Singleton is, as the 

6 complainant pointed out in paragraph 17 of his 

7 motion to strike, that this issue has been 

8 raised in the, it was raised in the complaint. 

9 And as a result, the respondent was on notice 

10 that this may be an issue debated at the 

11 hearing. 

12 So for those reasons, Judge, the 

13 respondent is not prejudiced and the motion to 

14 exclude with regard to Mr. Singleton should be 

15 denied. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you a 

17 question about that. Is Mr. Singleton 

18 substituting in for Mr. Schaefer as an expert 

19 witness on the evidence that Mr. Schaefer is 

20 noted to be testifying to, or are you simply 

21 adding him as a second witness on the same 

22 type of material? 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
18 

1 MR. VINES: It is my expectation 

2 that the testimony of Mr. Singleton will 

3 replace that of Mr. Schaefer. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So Mr. 

5 Schaefer may not be coming to the court at 

6 all? 

7 MR. VINES: Correct. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 

9 What about the witnesses you've identified as 

10 Martha Farmer and David Dunn? 

11 MR. VINES: Judge, those witnesses 

12 have been designated by the agency as fact 

13 witnesses with regard to the agency's policies 

14 regarding civil penalties. At this point in 

15 time, the agency is not anticipating 

16 qualifying them as expert witnesses, which the 

17 respondent has made the assumption of. 

18 I will also admit that these two 

19 witnesses were not included originally in the 

20 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 26 

21 disclosure. That's because the agency, at 

22 that time, did not anticipate calling either 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
19 

1 of those witnesses for that reason. However, 

2 as litigators would understand, as you prepare 

3 a case, certain acts come to light that they 

4 need to be potentially elicited from 

5 testimony. So, Judge, that is why the agency 

6 listed Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn as potential 

7 witnesses to discuss the agency's civil 

8 penalty policy. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I note that 

10 there was a phone ringing in the background. 

11 If someone has more than one phone, I'd like 

12 that phone to be either put on mute or 

13 disconnected so that we don't have that 

14 disruption for the rest of the hearing. 

15 MR. BOWEN: Yes, I put it on do not 

16 disturb. We're okay now. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 

18 Mr. Vines, let me ask you this. And it may be 

19 that I'm confusing this case with another. 

20 But is this, is this a case, I've had several 

21 cases recently that I've been hearing back to 

22 back. 

(202) 234·4433 

In this case, was there a stipulation 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
20 

1 or a series of admissions by the respondents 

2 about not, about waiving affirmative defenses 

3 on the financial portion of the case? 

4 MR. VINES: That is correct, Judge. 

5 But it is narrowed in that it is a, it was a 

6 ruling by your Honor that the respondent could 

7 not context their ability to pay --

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So the 

9 respondent is still in the position where it 

10 can challenge the appropriateness of the 

11 calculationsthemselves? Is that correct, Mr. 

12 Vines? 

13 MR. VINES: That is my 

14 understanding, Judge. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Anything 

16 else, Mr. Vines, that you would like to talk 

17 about? 

18 MR. VINES: One minute, Judge. In 

19 paragraph 16, Judge, the respondent argues 

20 that they or the company would not have 

21 sufficient time to meet the testimony, which 

22 is what is presented or assumed as three 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
21 

1 expert witnesses. I would argue that it would 

2 be one expert witness, which would be Mr. 

3 Singleton. 

4 The respondent also goes on to say 

5 he does not have the time to, does not have 

6 the written reports necessary to depose expert 

7 witnesses. I would argue that I have included 

8 a statement of anticipated testimony regarding 

9 their expert opinion, which they're on notice 

10 of. 

11 And as far as the respondent's claim 

12 that they are unable to retain experts, I 

13 can't proactively state what type of experts 

14 the respondent would call. But in light of 

15 the experts that I am calling or the expert 

16 that I am calling, Mr. Singleton, who holds an 

17 A&P certificate which is notated on his 

18 resume, it is also my understanding that the 

19 respondent has in their employ at least one, 

20 if not more, individuals who hold a similar 

21 certificate or the same certificate and, by 

22 that reasoning, Judge, would have the ability 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
22 

1 to or did have the ability to list and name an 

2 expert to rebut any possible testimony from an 

3 agency employee which has been listed and 

4 disclosed in this particular case. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In terms of 

6 Martha Farmer and/or David Dunn, the FAA 

7 witnesses who you want to call regarding the 

8 civil penalties, have you, in your 

9 disclosures, and I know that the whole issue 

10 of discovery has been a source of recent 

11 argument, provided or been asked to provide 

12 any information about how the FAA reached its 

13 civil penalty result? 

14 MR. VINES: I have, the agency has 

15 not received any request or any discovery 

16 motions to -- let me back up. The agency has 

17 not received any request, whether orally or by 

18 written request, from the respondent asking 

19 how the agency formulated its proposed civil 

20 penalty. 

21 

22 Bowen, 

(202) 234-4433 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, okay. Mr. 

would you care to address this 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
23 

1 particular motion? And if you would be so 

2 kind to start with Mr. Singleton in your 

3 response, that would be helpful. 

4 MR. BOWEN: First of all, I know 

5 that Mr. Honeycutt was interested in Mr. 

6 Schaefer appearing at the hearing. And this 

7 is the first time, I think, that Worldwide has 

8 found out that Mr. Schaefer will not be 

9 appearing at the testimony, at the hearing. 

10 Second, because he was, I think, 

11 involved in the investigation and the question 

12 on the investigation is going to be important 

13 in this case, from what I understand. Mr. 

14 Singleton, however, is also going to testify 

15 to more than just that because -- oh, no, I 

16 take that back. Obviously, if Mr. Schaefer 

17 appears, then Mr. Singlet= becomes 

18 irrelevant. But Mr. Schaefer is certainly 

19 different from Mr. Singleton because Mr. 

20 Singleton was not actually involved in this at 

21 all. And that's important to my client. 

22 

(202) 234·4433 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Wouldn't it be an 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
24 

1 advantage to your client, at this point, to 

2 have fewer people to testify to what he, 

3 himself, could assert as true from personal 

4 observation? Why would your client be 

5 opposed, I mean, just out of curiosity, why 

6 would your client be opposed to have fewer 

7 witnesses from the FAA who have personal 

8 knowledge about the events? 

9 MR. BOWEN: Because the personal 

10 knowledge only goes to the investigation 

11 itself. In other words, I think that the 

12 facts of the incident, I think, are pretty 

13 much set out. I don't think my client really 

14 has that much argument over the actual facts. 

15 What the key question is is that 

16 there are, as to some of the -- I don't want 

17 to reveal anything that, you know, goes to 

18 the, I guess goes to the hearing itself, but 

19 there is an issue that relates to the 

20 investigationand that Mr. Singleton would not 

21 know. 

22 

(202) 234-4433 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What about -

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
25 

1 - let me ask you this, and I had indicated 

2 this in my last order. And I'm not sure that 

3 your friend, Mr. Honeycutt, read the order 

4 with an eye to this particular piece of 

5 information. 

6 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: On page six of the 

8 eight -page order served February 4, 2 014 that 

9 is entitled "Order Granting/DenyingRelief," 

10 there is a paragraph G, as in George, entitled 

11 "Subpoenas for Witnesses." 

12 MR. BOWEN: Correct. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And it indicates 

14 that, although not mentioned at the previous 

15 motion conference that had been held on 

16 January 31, 2014, the parties were reminded, 

17 essentially, that 14 CFR Section 13.227 

18 limited and/or prohibited the ability of each 

19 party to subpoena the employees of the other. 

20 And I noticed in Mr. Honeycutt's witness list 

21 that he filed shortly thereafter that he was 

22 listing a variety of different people that 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
26 

1 appeared to be employees of the FAA, 

2 including, most prominently, on page one his 

3 list of witnesses Mr. Schaefer. 

4 MR. BOWEN: Correct. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm a little 

6 concerned about that because Mr. Schaefer 

7 who's listed on page one, Mr. Kahler who's 

8 listed on page two, and Mr. Donahue who's 

9 listed on page two, as well, are all FAA 

10 employees who Mr. Honeycutt cannot subpoena or 

11 compel to appear and testify on his behalf. 

12 He certainly can cross-examine those witnesses 

13 that the FAA chooses to present, but he cannot 

14 compel the attendance of FAA witnesses o his 

15 own. 

16 So in your informal conversations 

17 with Mr. Honeycutt, do you have any idea if he 

18 is aware of that? 

19 MR. BOWEN: I don't think he 

20 attempted to subpoena them because he thought 

21 that they were all going to appear and that he 

22 would be able to cross-examine them. I never 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
27 

1 had a conversation with him about whether or 

2 not he wanted to subpoena them or not. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

4 MR. BOWEN: I don't think he's going 

5 to call them on his own. But if somebody is 

6 going to come in and testify, I think he 

7 wanted Mr. Schaefer to testify about the whole 

8 thing, rather than somebody who is distinct, 

9 especially because it cuts out the 

10 investigation itself and some of the issues 

11 that relates to that. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: According to your 

13 client and the motion to strike or exclude, 

14 excuse me, he indicates on page three in 

15 paragraph 19 that he believes that the 

16 question that is at the heart of the dispute 

17 in this case, or at least one of the 

18 questions, is the applicability of the 

19 respondent's general operation manual and 

20 also, in paragraph 17, an indication that the 

21 issue of whether or not a receptacle was 

22 damaged and whether or not the damage to the 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
28 

1 receptacle was a discrepancy is an issue. 

2 So what is it about Mr. Singleton's 

3 substituted testimony for Mr. Schaefer's 

4 testimony that leads you to believe that Mr. 

5 Singleton would have testimony that was any 

6 different from Mr. Schaefer on the points that 

7 are of issue to your client or, not your 

8 client, excuse me, to Mr. Honeycutt and the 

9 respondent? 

10 MR. BOWEN: Well, I think it relates 

11 to, without going into great detail, I believe 

12 it relates to the investigation and Mr. 

13 Fanning's testimony that these are issues that 

14 are not, that Mr. Singleton does not know 

15 anything about but Mr. Schaefer does. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

17 MR. BOWEN: And that's critical as 

18 to what is going on, you know, in the 

19 testimony of Mr. Fanning, I guess. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's 

21 assume, just for the sake of argument now, 

22 that Mr. Honeycutt cannot subpoena an FAA 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
29 

1 employee as a witness --

2 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- and that the FAA 

4 chooses, as its right, to call the witnesses 

5 that it wishes amongst its employee pool. 

6 What relief do you think the Court can grant 

7 you if that's the case? 

8 MR. BOWEN: Well, the answer is 

9 either Mr. Schaefer appears or Mr. Schaefer 

10 doesn' t appear. If Mr. Schaefer doesn't 

11 appear, that's okay, but I don't, I think Mr. 

12 Honeycutt doesn't want somebody to come in and 

13 testify in Mr. Schaefer's stead when the issue 

14 was the investigation itself because that 

15 would change the theory of his case that's 

16 going to go on on Tuesday. And as a result of 

17 changing the theory of his case, I think that 

18 that creates some prejudice in him to go 

19 forward, you know. 

2 0 As to the remedy, it would be one of 

21 two things: either we exclude Mr. Singleton 

22 and if Mr. Schaefer shows up, okay, and if he 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
30 

1 doesn't, that's okay; or, number two, is you 

2 can continue the case so that my client would 

3 be able to evaluate now the situation if Mr. 

4 Singleton doesn't show up and someone else 

5 does. I mean, not Mr. Singleton. Mr. 

6 Schaefer shows up and doesn't show up and 

7 someone else does. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What is it that you 

9 believe Mr. Singleton may be asked to testify 

10 to that Mr. Schaefer would not have been --

11 MR. BOWEN: The investigation that 

12 occurred and the statement made by Mr. 

13 Fanning. It's facts surrounding that. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Can you be a little 

15 more specific just for the purposes of this 

16 argument today? 

17 MR. BOWEN: We believe that there 

18 was some improper conduct and that statements 

19 were made and, as a result, the document was 

20 signed and his statement was signed. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: His statement being 

22 Mr. Honeycutt's statement or Mr. Fanning--

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
31 

1 MR. BOWEN: No, Mr. Fanning's 

2 statement. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Wouldn't Mr. 

4 Fanning himself be able to testify to that? 

5 MR. BOWEN: Yes, your Honor. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: How is your client 

7 excuse me. I'm sorry. How is Mr. 

8 Honeycutt and the respondent prejudiced if 

9 they still have a primary witness who can 

10 testify to those events? 

11 MR. BOWEN: Right. But what it does 

12 is the testimony eliminates the ability to 

13 cross-examine the FAA about the events that 

14 occurred. With Mr. Singleton, he don't have 

15 no knowledge of that. So then it occurs that, 

16 if Mr. Schaefer does not show up, then, you 

17 know, you've got one witness that's going to 

18 say something and the credibility of Mr. 

19 Schaefer is not tested by the hearing, at the 

20 hearing. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So the allegation 

22 essentially would be that Mr. Schaefer was 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
32 

1 involved ln some improper statements or undue 

2 pressure and the respondent wants to bring 

3 that to the light 

4 MR. BOWEN: Yes. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How is that 

6 a defense to the respondent's primary 

7 obligation in terms of the allegations of 

8 safety regulations being violated? 

9 MR. BOWEN: Because I think that 

10 they're relying on Mr. Fanning's statement as 

11 to what, as to certain things that occurred. 

12 And that statement occurred based on 

13 representations made by Mr. Schaefer. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And just in 

15 terms of one or two more questions on this 

16 point, let's assume that Mr. Schaefer did 

17 appear and was available for cross18 examination, what guarantee does the 

19 respondent have that he would answer the 

20 cross-examination questions in a way that 

21 satisfied the respondent or that was, that 

22 reflected the respondent's perception of what 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
33 

1 had happened? 

2 MR. BOWEN: Well, I understand what 

3 you're saying, your Honor, but my client 

4 wanted the chance. Now, don't forget, also, 

5 is this is the first time we heard that Mr. 

6 Schaefer was not going or I'm assuming is not 

7 going to show up because if Mr. Schaefer is 

8 not going to show up, if Mr. Schaefer shows 

9 up, then it becomes just duplicative 

10 testimony. So I'm assuming that Mr. Schaefer 

11 is not going to showup. And if Mr. Schaefer 

12 is not going to show up, I think that the 

13 prejudice becomes less. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, all right. 

15 Let's talk now about Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn. 

16 What's the respondent's position about those 

17 two witnesses? 

18 MR. BOWEN: Well, I mean, you know, 

19 to say-- essentially, it's the same thing and 

20 that this is the first time we've heard of 

21 them coming in. And I believe that if there's 

22 a written report or something that indicates 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
34 

1 how these calculations were made, that that 

2 report -- that written report -- should have 

3 been delivered to my client at the time. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In the respondent's 

5 witness list, which I have before me, there 

6 are, ln addition to the three FAA employees, 

7 seven other people listed as potential 

8 respondent witnesses, starting with paragraph 

9 four identifying Lisa Ale ski. That's A as in 

10 apple, L as in lamb, E as in egg, S as in Sam, 

11 K as in kitty, I as in igloo. And moving into 

12 the next page and ending with Kurt Handing. 

13 Kurt spelled with a U, Handing, H-A, N as in 

14 Nancy, D as in dog, I-N-G. 

15 Are any of these individuals who are 

16 listed people who were being called to testify 

17 about financial matters, in terms of the 

18 proposed civil penalty, to your knowledge? 

19 MR. BOWEN: No, I don't think so. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What, if 

21 any, materials that are in the exhibit list 

22 can you point to that the respondent was 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
35 

1 planning to introduce to challenge the alleged 

2 civil penalty as proposed? 

3 MR. BOWEN: I can't do that right 

4 now. I have not looked at that. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Other than 

6 general cross-examination of any of the FAA 

7 witnesses regarding the proposed civil 

8 penalty, is there any other information you 

9 have about the respondent's disadvantage that 

10 you allege is occurring to have Ms. Farmer 

11 and/or Mr. Dunn added to the FAA's prima facie 

12 case list for discussing the proposed civil 

13 penalty? 

14 MR. BOWEN: Just the fact that if 

15 they're going to testify, we don't know what 

16 they're going to say. If we don't know what 

17 they're going to say, I'm not sure how we can 

18 provide witnesses that might reflect that. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I know that 

20 you have not been formally involved in this 

21 case in any way up until today, but I do have 

22 a question and you may not be able to answer 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
36 

1 it. Are you aware that there has been very 

2 little, if any, discovery request initiated by 

3 the respondent throughout the proceeding of 

4 this case up until last month? 

5 MR. BOWEN: From what I understand, 

6 yes. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Now, given 

8 that general awareness, how is it that the 

9 respondent, in your opinion, is prejudiced any 

10 differently now by finding out about these two 

11 new witnesses, when the respondent essentially 

12 waived its rights to engage in discovery and 

13 find out about these things between the time 

14 that the case was initially filed with this 

15 office to the date that these two individuals 

16 were named, which was I think on or about 

17 February 11, 2014? 

18 And I'll say this in a different 

19 way. In essence, the respondent has conducted 

2 0 no discovery to find out anything in this 

21 case. And so this Court is somewhat 

22 challenged in being persuaded that somehow the 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
37 

1 respondent suddenly is experiencing 

2 substantial prejudice in finding out that 

3 there are two more people to testify about a 

4 proposed penalty amount that the respondent 

5 knew about and has known about for over a year 

6 and has conducted no discovery on. I mean, I 

7 think you can kind of, hopefully 

8 MR. BOWEN: Yes, I understand what 

9 you're saying, Your Honor. The only problem 

10 is that, you know, you handle a case one way 

11 and handle a case a different way. I mean, if 

12 they're not disclosed, then my client is 

13 sitting here thinking that they're not going 

14 to come ln and testify about that, which 

15 eliminates possibly, in his mind, that there's 

16 no need to go into that kind of investigation. 

17 On the other hand, now, all of a 

18 sudden, we now say, oh wait a second, now 

19 we're going to go into this, you know, how 

2 0 these things were calculated, and now he says, 

21 okay, if I wanted to talk to these people, I'm 

22 unable to do so because the discovery has now 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
38 

1 gone by. And I think, generally speaking, 

2 what that does is put him in a disadvantage 

3 because he built his case around what he 

4 thought the witnesses were going to be. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

6 MR. BOWEN: I guess what you're 

7 saying, your Honor, is that my client should 

8 have anticipated that the FAA was wrong in 

9 disclosing its witnesses and that he should 

10 have known that these witnesses would be 

11 coming in to testify. And I don' t think 

12 that's true. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let me ask 

14 you this. The witness lists were provided by 

15 the FAA on February 11, 2014. 

16 MR. BOWEN: Correct. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Honeycutt does 

18 not file an objection or a motion until ten 

19 days later, on February 21, 2014, and then is 

20 not available up until through this date for 

21 discussion and any other alternate relief, 

22 short of excluding or continuing, which is a 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .. N.W 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
39 

1 concern to this Court. 

2 Typically, what the Court tries to 

3 do is to cure the problem, if at all possible, 

4 without going to either the extreme remedy of 

5 excluding testimony or the extreme remedy of 

6 continuance. And given the timing of Mr. 

7 Honeycutt's motion and objection and then his 

8 unavailability to appear and discuss it this 

9 week, it seems it seems unfortunate, at 

10 best, that the time has become so critical 

11 because, as I look at my calendar, the only 

12 day potentially to cure this, short of the 

13 remedies that you want or the remedies 

14 suggested by the FAA, is to do something on 

15 Monday, the 24th, 2014. And I'm wondering if 

16 you have any recommendations or response about 

17 that concern. 

18 MR. BOWEN: Well, I mean, I don't 

19 know if Mr. Vines had talked to or tried to 

20 reach Mr. Honeycutt. I do know that, you 

21 know, that the nature of my client's business 

22 is when somebody is injured, let's say in 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
40 

1 Brazil, and needs immediate medical attention 

2 in the United States, that he gets called. 

3 And if he doesn't respond, that's going to 

4 impact his future business. So that's why 

5 he's not here today to call in, and that was 

6 an unforeseen situation because of the 

7 Brazilians. 

8 But, in any case, the bottom line is 

9 is that we are prepared to discuss other 

10 methods to get this thing remedied. I mean, 

11 I don't know what other things could be done 

12 to remedy this. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. And let 

14 me ask you, just to expand a little bit about 

15 Mr. Honeycutt's absence. I was advised 

16 through my staff that he was not available for 

17 the conference yesterday--

18 MR. BOWEN: Correct. He was on his 

19 way down, he was on his way down to Brazil 

20 because he had just got a call that said that 

21 they need him. And he is the only pilot at 

22 the moment because his other pilot is, I 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
41 

1 think, getting his checkride done here shortly 

2 or has done it but hasn't received his 

3 currency. But I may be using the wrong terms. 

4 But in any case, you know, the one 

5 today, he was fully aware of this and was 

6 fully prepared to attend by telephone on 

7 Friday at 2:00. That I had verified with him, 

8 I guess it was Wednesday. Like, at 1:00, I 

9 get a frantic call from the office indicating 

10 that he is unable to leave Brazil and is 

11 unable to call from Brazil, and so that there 

12 is a major problem and that's why we are where 

13 we are. I mean, he's not trying to evade or 

14 not appear. That's not his style. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I don't know 

16 very much about Mr. Honeycutt or his company, 

17 so from what I gather from what you're saying, 

18 he is a pilot in a company that responds to 

19 calls outside of the United States for 

20 airplane assistance; is that what you're 

21 saying to me? 

22 MR. BOWEN: No, your Honor. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

And I 

www.nealrgross.com 
42 

1 apologize. I should have probably said this 

2 before. My client is an air ambulance, you 

3 know, Worldwide is an air ambulance. They 

4 have, like, three or four airplanes. They 

5 have several pilots. However, the FAA has not 

6 provided a pilot down here, an inspector, I 

7 guess, that comes in that can check out these 

8 two pilots on this type of aircraft. So these 

9 people had to go to a different area to get 

10 checked out. Thus, the only pilot who was 

11 current to be able to fly was Mr. Honeycutt. 

12 And what happens in his business is 

13 that a hospital or a family or somebody gets 

14 ahold of him and says they've got somebody 

15 who's seriously injured in Brazil and, as a 

16 result, they need to transport that person 

17 from Brazil, after they stabilize him in 

18 Brazil, transport him back to the United 

19 States to a certain medical facility. So he 

20 flies down to Brazil with a nurse and a doctor 

21 or whatever personnel he needs. The airplane 

22 is equipped for all types of emergencies and 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
43 

1 all types of injuries. 

2 Anyway, they go down. They pick up 

3 the hospital, bring somebody over by ambulance 

4 to put into the aircraft. The nurse and the 

5 doctor stay with the patient. He flies them 

6 back to the designated airport near the other 

7 medical facility, and then that medical 

8 facility transports them back to the hospital. 

9 As a result, you know, he's got to 

10 have certain clearances-- and I really don't 

11 understand all of what happened in Brazil. 

12 But in any case, what I understand is he is 

13 unable to leave Brazil at this moment. I 

14 don't know if it's because of the patient, I 

15 don't know if it's because of the airplane, I 

16 don't know if it's because of the Brazilian 

17 government. But he is unable to do so. But 

18 the airport that he's at, you know, he is 

19 unable to make the phone call that's 

20 necessary. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 

22 That'sveryhelpful. Mr. Vines, I'mgoingto 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
44 

1 turn back to you, and I'm going to ask you a 

2 couple of questions about Ms. Farmer and Mr. 

3 Dunn. Before I do that, though, would you 

4 like to make a general response to what Mr. 

5 Bowen has said on behalf of his friend, Mr. 

6 Honeycutt, and the respondent? 

7 MR. VINES: Judge, other than I 

8 understand that emergencies do occur, things 

9 do arise at the last minute. But in addition 

10 to Mr. Honeycutt operating his company, he 

11 does have ancillary matters to attend to. 

12 This is one of them. Yesterday, I did receive 

13 a call from Mr. Bowen who asked that I agree 

14 to move this hearing -- conference, rather --

15 back. I agreed to that request. 

16 But as far as the possibility of 

17 moving or reconvening again at a later date to 

18 discuss the same matter, I would object to 

19 that as a possible remedy in that I am 

20 finishing up my witness prep, case prep, for 

21 the hearing next Wednesday. I'll be doing 

22 that the rest of today and Monday and, of 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
45 

1 course, Tuesday is not going to be, is not 

2 available to me as a prep day as I'll be 

3 traveling to the hearing location. 

4 So that's really, in a nutshell, all 

5 I have as a response to Mr. Bowen's argument. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me ask 

7 you a couple of questions because I think you 

8 may have misunderstood some of my dialogue 

9 with Mr. Bowen. Currently, the respondent is 

10 moving to exclude witnesses and the 

11 respondent, in oral argument, has suggested 

12 that a second alternative relief would be to 

13 continue the case as a whole. 

14 In my dialogue with Mr. Bowen, I was 

15 saying that, typically, the Court tries to 

16 look for less drastic options to try and cure 

17 rna t ters which may have resulted in some 

18 inequity to a party. So, for example, in your 

19 February 11, 2014 amended or supplemental 

20 witness list, you identified Ms. Farmer and 

21 Mr. Dunn for the first time. 

22 

(202) 234·4433 

MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
46 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I was saying to Mr. 

2 Bowen, why didn't we hear about this earlier 

3 than February 21, 2014 so that the Court could 

4 have entertained alternate, less drastic 

5 solutions if it finds merit to the objection? 

6 And alternate less drastic solutions could 

7 include but are not limited to disclosing some 

8 information about Mr. Dunn and Ms. Farmer's 

9 testimony, disclosing some type of written 

10 report, if any exists, about their 

11 calculations of the civil penalty, exchanging 

12 information about various regulations that 

13 might relate to how civil penalties are 

14 calculated, and so forth, so that the hearing 

15 could go forward with both parties fully 

16 apprised and ready to inquire. 

17 And what I'm hearing from Mr. Bowen 

18 is that Mr. Honeycutt filed on the 21st, 2014, 

19 his objection and motion and then simply has 

20 not been available because of some emergent 

21 medical problems involved in his business 

22 dealings up until and through today. My 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
47 

1 discussion with Mr. Bowen then involved, well, 

2 what can we do that's potentially available to 

3 the parties in the few days or one day that we 

4 have remaining, which, as I look at the 

5 calendar, is not February 24th because I'm 

6 looking at this week instead of next, but 

7 would be Monday, March 3rd, 2014, which is the 

8 day before anyone has to travel to the Tampa, 

9 Florida location for the Wednesday, March 5th, 

10 2014 first day of hearing. 

11 What in your exhibits and materials, 

12 Mr. Vines, do you have that might go to a 

13 discussion of how the civil penalty was 

14 calculated? 

15 MR. VINES: Very simple, Judge. The 

16 anticipated testimony from Mr. Dunn or Ms. 

17 Farmer would come from two of the 

18 complainant's exhibits, and those exhibits are 

19 marked as -- those exhibits are marked as C-1 7 

20 and C-18. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me take 

22 a minute to take a look at those, please. And 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www. nealrgross.com 
48 

1 C-17 appears to be a replica of a regulation; 

2 is that correct? 

3 MR. VINES: Judge, this would be an 

4 excerpt from the FAA Order 2150.3B, Appendix 

5 B. It's the agency's table of sanctions. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what part, if 

7 any, can be pointed to as relevant to the 

8 sanction that was proposed by the FAA in this 

9 case? Because C-1 7 appears to be quite 

10 lengthy. 

11 MR. VINES: Fair question, Judge. 

12 It would be part one, the applicability 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And let's 

14 MR. VINES: I'm sorry. Go ahead. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, if you could 

16 walk me to the page that's part one. Is part 

17 one on page one, or is it on a different page? 

18 MR. VINES: Part one would be on the 

19 first page, and if you'll notice that, Judge, 

2 0 the excerpt was reduced to four pages, reduced 

21 to one page. So you'll notice on the very 

22 first page of Exhibit C-17, there's B1, B2, 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
49 

1 B3, and B4. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 

3 MR. VINES: Those would be page 

4 numbers. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 

6 MR. VINES: And I will be 

7 referencing, obviously, B1, page B1, B3. 

8 MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, I don't have 

9 that. Was this provided to Mr. Honeycutt? 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, it was 

11 provided on February 11, 2014. And if you 

12 don't have it, Mr. Bowen, may I recommend that 

13 you take some notes. 

14 MR. BOWEN: I am. I mean, I got his 

15 witness and exhibit list, but were the actual 

16 exhibits attached? 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Vines, did you 

18 also send the actual exhibits? 

19 

20 

21 

22 

(202) 234·4433 

MR. BOWEN: Yes. Yes, Judge. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, they were. 

MR. BOWEN: Sorry. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you for the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
50 

1 clarification. 

2 MR. VINES: Again, page B3 as well 

3 as B4. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

5 MR. VINES: And then if you continue 

6 on, there's certain figures addressing 

7 different types of violations. And bear with 

8 me as I gather information here. 

9 MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, while he's 

10 doing that, is there I have 2150.3B in 

11 front of me here. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

13 MR. BOWEN: But my 2150.3B indicates 

14 that, like, it's got B3B, B3C. And he's 

15 saying B1, B3, B4. Could he be a little more 

16 specific as to which part of the Bs? 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I think Mr. Vines 

18 is referring to the page number that's --

19 MR. BOWEN: Oh, oh, yes, so I can't 

20 there's no way it corresponds. Okay. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I think that, 

22 as we're talking, this gives me an idea of 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
51 

1 what remedy I might be able to provide. But 

2 I'm going to give Mr. Vines just another 

3 moment to see if he can focus in on the 

4 remaining pages in Exhibit C-17 before we go 

5 to Exhibit C-18. 

6 Mr. Vines, do you think you can come 

7 up with that or can I move on to Exhibit C-18 

8 at this point? 

9 MR. VINES: If you want to move on, 

10 Judge, I can come back to this. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, great. In 

12 looking at Exhibit C-18, which you also 

13 referenced, this appears to also be part of 

14 the published regulations. Please explain it 

15 just in case I may be mistaken. 

16 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. This, 

17 again, is an excerpt from FAA Order 2150. 3B, 

18 as in boy. This is Chapter 7, and this 

19 chapter sets forth the general sanction 

20 guidelines or guidance policies with regard to 

21 how the FAA assesses a penalty. 

22 

(202) 234-4433 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

And as I 

www.nealrgross.com 
52 

1 understand it -- you may correct me if I'm 

2 wrong -- both Exhibit C-17 and Exhibit C-18 

3 are excerpts from publications that are 

4 available to the public? 

5 MR. VINES: That is correct. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Would you, Mr. 

7 Vines, be able to provide a short summary 

8 statement of what pages in Exhibit C-17 and 

9 Exhibit C-18 are directly applicable to the 

10 witness testimony that you plan to elicit from 

11 Mr. Dunn and Ms. Farmer? 

12 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: How quickly can you 

14 put something like that together and send it 

15 over to the respondent? 

16 MR. VINES: I likely can do that 

17 it's 3:00. I can likely do that today. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And when you 

19 say today, can you do that by 5:00p.m. today? 

20 

21 

22 

MR. VINES: It depends on how long 

we go, Judge. I'll do my best. 

(202) 234-4433 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: If we end fairly 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
53 

1 soon, would that give you enough time? 

2 MR. VINES: I think so, Judge. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Bowen, 

4 what I'm going to do is this. I am going to 

5 direct Mr. Vines to provide some clarification 

6 statement and explanatory summary of how 

7 Exhibit C-17 and Exhibit C-18 will be utilized 

8 and relied upon by Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn in 

9 their testimony about how the FAA's proposed 

10 civil penalty is calculated. 

11 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am going to 

13 direct him to provide that to the respondent 

14 with a courtesy copy to you no later than 6 

15 p.m. today, in case he needs a little extra 

16 time. And I'm going to provide that as what 

17 I think to be the curative remedy to the 

18 surprise that Mr. Honeycutt has experienced in 

19 seeing these two new witnesses. 

20 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The reason that I 

22 think that this is going to be curative is 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
54 

1 this: number one, the notice of complaint has 

2 been available to Mr. Honeycutt since it was 

3 filed, which was on or about February 20, 

4 2013. And in that notice of complaint, there 

5 was a clear and unequivocal statement that the 

6 FAA was seeking a civil penalty of $12,375 in 

7 this case. That civil penalty has not 

8 changed, despite the fact of the recently9 filed amended complaint. The respondent has 

10 been on notice for over a year that the FAA 

11 was going to seek a civil penalty and what the 

12 amount was. 

13 The respondent has expressed 

14 surprise at the fact that the FAA has a strong 

15 interest in having witnesses come to talk 

16 about the civil penalty. I would suggest that 

17 this respondent's surprise is exaggerated to 

18 that degree. The respondent should have 

19 always anticipated that the FAA would present 

20 witnesses on such a matter, since it's part 

21 and parcel and an integral part of the FAA's 

22 prima facie case. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
55 

1 In addition, the way that the FAA 

2 calculates proposed civil penalties is 

3 published and available to the public, 

4 irrespective of whether or not the FAA 

5 responds to discovery requests, irrespective 

6 of whether or not the respondent asked the FAA 

7 for that information. It would have been 

8 helpful in this case, I think, if Mr. 

9 Honeycutt, as the representative of his 

10 company, had engaged in discovery. He 

11 obviously didn't, and there were consequences 

12 of some extent of that. 

13 But the proposed civil penalties do 

14 have kind of a structured schedule of how they 

15 are calculated. There is some discretion and 

16 some range in the calculation, but that 

17 discretion and range is discussed and 

18 available for public review in the materials 

19 that have been included, at least in part, as 

20 Exhibits C-17 and C-18. 

21 So I'm going to direct Mr. Vines to 

22 provide a brief explanation so that a 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
56 

1 layperson can understand it as best he can 

2 before the close of 6 p.m. business today so 

3 that Mr. Honeycutt has an opportunity over the 

4 weekend to take a look at it. I will also 

5 make the witnesses, Mr. Dunn and Ms. Farmer, 

6 available to Mr. Honeycutt during the two days 

7 of hearing for a brief private interview if he 

8 has other questions he'd like to ask them off 

9 the record before their testimony is 

10 presented. 

11 In addition, if there is a 

12 perception or a belief by Mr. Honeycutt that 

13 he has someone else that he thinks could serve 

14 his interest in terms of rebutting their 

15 testimony, I would certainly entertain a 

16 motion before the close of the trial for him 

17 to add a witness to his own witness list who 

18 could address those matters and/or to address 

19 the matter after the parties leave the Tampa 

20 courtroom by some other alternate means. 

21 It may be that Mr. Honeycutt will 

22 find, that once he reads this material with 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
57 

1 Mr. Vines' supplemental statement, that it 

2 will become much more clear. It may also be 

3 that after Mr. Honeycutt has a chance to talk 

4 to Mr. Dunn and/or Ms. Farmer that he will see 

5 that the parameters of the penalty calculation 

6 are fairly structured and he'll know where to 

7 pose his questions accordingly. 

8 I cannot find, at this point, that 

9 he is so severely prejudiced that the extreme 

10 remedy of either excluding these witnesses or 

11 continuing the trial is warranted. I think 

12 the cure right now is to provide him some more 

13 information so that he can look at C-17 and c14 18 with a more educated eye and also to give 

15 him some access, and it will be limited 

16 access, probably one hour or less, to the 

17 witnesses before they are called to testify on 

18 the record. 

19 In addition, as I note, I will also 

20 reserve Mr. Honeycutt's ability to move for 

21 additional relief and/or to keep his case open 

22 for the presentation of an additional witness, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
58 

1 either ln Tampa, Florida or by some other 

2 means before he has to close his responsive 

3 case. 

4 With that, on behalf of the FAA, Mr. 

5 Vines, do you have anything else that we can 

6 address for your client today? 

7 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I don't 

8 know if you made the ruling as to it 

9 appears as if you made a ruling with regard to 

10 the three witnesses that were requested to be 

11 stricken by the respondent --

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Oh, I'm sorry, I 

13 didn't address Mr. Singleton. Thank you for 

14 mentioning that. I will respectfully deny the 

15 respondent's motion to exclude Mr. Singleton 

16 with the adoption and confirmation of the 

17 FAA's statement that Mr. Singleton will not 

18 testify to any matter that would be different 

19 from what has already been disclosed as Mr. 

20 Schaefer's anticipated testimony. 

21 Obviously, the FAA has asserted that 

22 Mr. Singleton is subbing in for Mr. Schaefer, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
59 

1 who will not be called as a witness, and that 

2 Mr. Singleton is not being brought in now for 

3 testimony on either any new or non-disclosed 

4 matters. I don' t find the persuasive the 

5 respondent's statement that Mr. Schaefer 

6 needs to be at the hearing. The respondent 

7 doesn't have the ability to choose for the FAA 

8 which witnesses it will call to a hearing. 

9 I understand the respondent has been 

10 anticipating cross-examining Mr. Schaefer. I 

11 appreciate that, but hearings and trials do 

12 have changes that occur both long before the 

13 trial and shortly before the trial, and 

14 sometimes even during the trial itself. It 

15 does not appear to me that this substantially 

16 changes the respondent's case in chief in 

17 response to the FAA's case. In fact, the 

18 respondent is relieved of the work of cross 

19 examining a witness about a contested issue. 

20 It sounds to me that the respondent doesn't 

21 have the ability to present testimony about a 

22 matter without the FAA witness who was present 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
60 

1 at the time to rebut any such testimony, which 

2 might be deemed an advantage. 

3 In any event, the fact that a 

4 witness may have felt compelled to respond in 

5 a certain way can still be addressed by the 

6 respondent in its own responsive case quite 

7 adequately, in this Court's opinion. And so 

8 Mr. Singleton'spresencedoesn'tprejudiceit, 

9 and it appears to be an appropriate choice in 

10 terms of the FAA trying to address its own 

11 witness problems. 

12 So respondent's motion to exclude 

13 Mr. Singleton is denied. The respondent's 

14 motion to exclude Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn are 

15 denied. But the respondent's request for 

16 relief is granted, to the extent that the 

17 relief is as identified by the Court a few 

18 minutes ago in its oral ruling. 

19 Mr. Vines, I'm going to turn to you 

20 again. Thank you very much for the reminder. 

21 Anything else that we need to address for you 

22 on behalf of your client today? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
61 

1 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I want to 

2 seek clarification from you as to your 

3 interpretation of 14 CFR Section 13.227. I 

4 respectfully disagree with your 

5 interpretation, Judge, and like to bring my 

6 position to your attention and have you, 

7 again, either agree, confirm your earlier 

8 position or perhaps maybe adopt mine. 

9 As I read the regulation, it says an 

10 employee of the agency may not be called as an 

11 expert or opinion witness for any other party 

12 other than the FAA in any proceeding governed 

13 by the subpart . Also, an employee of a 

14 respondent may not be called by an agency 

15 attorney as an expert or opinion witness for 

16 the FAA in any proceeding governed by the 

17 subparts to which the respondent is a party. 

18 Judge, I would agree that the 

19 that, for instance, using the FAA as an 

20 example, the FAA could not subpoena or call an 

21 employee of the respondent to testify as an 

22 expert or to provide opinion testimony. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
62 

1 However, I disagree with your position that 

2 the FAA cannot call any employee of the 

3 respondent for purposes of fact testimony. 

4 In this particular case, Judge, I 

5 have subpoenaed Mr. Brian Fanning, who is an 

6 employee of the respondent, to solicit fact 

7 testimony from him. And because of that, 

8 Judge, I would ask that you reconsider your 

9 position as to the agency's ability to call a 

10 respondent's employee for purposes of 

11 soliciting fact testimony. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Vines, thank 

13 you so very much for that clarification. 

14 You're absolutely right, and I apologize if I 

15 have misstated the scope of 14 CFR Section 

16 13.227. If you look at the order that I 

17 issued on February 4, 2014, page six, 

18 paragraph G, that was clearly within the 

19 province of 14 CFR Section 13.227. It simply 

20 indicated that the regulation limited and/or 

21 prohibited the ability of each party to 

22 subpoena the employees of the other. But in 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
63 

1 talking to both of you today, I apparently 

2 revised the regulation to have a much broader 

3 scope, and that was not correct. 

4 So you're absolutely right, and I 

5 apologize to both of you for that. Does that 

6 help, Mr. Vines? 

7 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. Thank you. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're very 

9 welcome. 

10 MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, I did not 

11 take your statement as to mean that he 

12 couldn't subpoena Mr. Fanning. By the way, 

13 Will, I contacted the office and they say he 

14 has received the subpoena and he will be 

15 there. 

16 MR. VINES: Thank you. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say 

18 you contacted the office, are you talking 

19 about contacting Mr. Honeycutt's office and 

2 0 their confirming that Mr. Fanning will be 

21 present? 

22 

(202) 234·4433 

MR. BOWEN: Yes. I'musingtoomany 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
64 

1 pronouns. You're absolutely right, Your 

2 Honor. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Bowen, 

4 is there anything else that you'd like to add 

5 on behalf of your friend, Mr. Honeycutt, 

6 today? 

7 MR. BOWEN: No, your Honor. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I will 

9 thank you both very much for your presence 

10 today and for your help in resolving these 

11 issues. It appears our business is complete. 

12 I'll look forward to seeing you, Mr. Vines, 

13 and Mr. Honeycutt in the Tampa, Florida 

14 courthouse next Wednesday, March 5th, 2014 for 

15 hearing. If the parties do settle prior to 

16 that, please just let us know. 

17 MR. BOWEN: May I ask just what's 

18 the time that it starts? 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The time of the 

20 hearing usually begins right at 9 a.m., and 

21 you want to be there early because you always 

22 have to get through security first. 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
65 

1 MR. BOWEN: All right. I just want 

2 to verify with Mike the time and the place. 

3 Thank you. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I would recommend 

5 that he be in the courtroom by 8:45 at the 

6 latest. 

7 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

9 MR. BOWEN: Thank you very much. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. We can 

11 go off the record, and I wish you all a good 

12 day. 

13 MR. VINES: Thank you. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right. Bye15 bye. 

16 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter was 

17 concluded at 3:24p.m.) 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
. 

A 

$12,375 54:7 

A&P 21:18 

a.m64:21 

ability 8:5 12:9 

20:8 22:1,2 25:19 

31:13 57:21 59:8 

59:22 62:10,22 

able 27:1 30:4 31:5 

36:1 42:12 51:2 

52:8 

above-entitled 1: 13 

absence 40: 16 

absolutely 62:15 

63:5 64:2 

access 57:16,17 

acts 19:4 

actual24:15 49:16 

49:19 

add 9:3 56:18 64:5 

added 12:16 35:12 

adding 17:22 

addition 34:7 44:10 

55:2 56:12 57:20 

additional57:22 

58:1 

address 4:1 23:1 

56:19,19 58:7,14 

60:11,22 

addressed 3:9 60:6 

addressing 50:7 

adds 9:1 

adequately 60:8 

Administration 2:4 

3:12 

Administrative 

1:20 

admissions 20:2 

admit 18:19 

adopt 61:9 

adoption 58:17 

advantage 24:2 

60:3 

advise 5:15 

advised 40:16 

affirm 5:16 

affirmative 20:3 

afternoon 4:8,9,10 

agency 11:1 15:19 

16:2,7,10,13,20 

18:13,16,22 19:6 

22:4,15,17,20 

61:11,15 

agency's 16:5,15,17 

18:14 19:8 48:6 

62:10 

ago6:17 11:8 60:19 

agree 10:1711:14 

44:14 61:8,19 

agreed 44:16 

ahead 6:9 48:15 

ahold 42:15 

air 42:3,4 

aircraft 1:7 2:9 3:4 

3:16 42:9 43:5 

airplane41:21 

42:22 43:16 

airplanes 42:5 

airport6:2 43:7,19 

Aleski 34:10 

allegation 31 :22 

allegations 8:1,6 

9:2,20 12:17 32:8 

allege 35:11 

alleged 35:2 

alleges 9:5 

alleging 13:8 

allow 11:1 

allowed 5:7 12:13 

14:13 

allows 11:1912:5 

alternate 13:21 

14:5 38:22 46:5,7 

56:21 

alternative 45:13 

ambulance 42:3,4 

43:4 

amended4:16 5:3 

6:20 7:5,14,21 8:8 

8:10 11:21 12:7 

13:20,22 45:20 

54:10 

amendment 4:22 

7:13 8:22 9:6,8 

11:16,19 12:3 

amendments 8: 12 

12:15 

amicus 3:22 5:9 

amount37:5 54:13 

ancillary 44:12 

and/or 6:16,20 22:7 

25:19 35:12 56:19 

57:5,22 62:21 

Andy 2:18 4:6 

answer 29:9 32:20 

36:1 

answering 11: 14 

anticipate 19: 1 

anticipated 21:9 

38:9 47:17 54:20 

58:21 

anticipating 18: 16 

59:11 

Anyway43:3 

apologies 14:7 

apologize 42:2 

62:15 63:6 

apparently 63 :2 

appear 3:22 5:6 

8:13 26:12,22 

29:11,12 32:18 

39:941:15 59:16 

APPEARANCES 

2:1 

appeared 26:2 

appearing 3:20 

23:7,10 

appears 9:9,16 

23:18 29:10 48:2 

48:10 51:14 58:10 

60:10 64:12 

Appendix 48:5 

apple 34:11 

applicability 27:19 

48:13 

applicable 52: 10 

appreciate 59:12 

apprised 46:17 

appropriate 60:10 

appropriateness 

20:11 

area 42:10 

argue 10:3,22 17:2 

21:2,8 

argues 20:20 

argument 22: 12 

24:15 28:22 30:17 

45:6,12 

arguments 9:8 

12:15 

asked 7:2 22:12 

30:10 44:14 55:7 

asking 6:8 22:19 

assert 24:4 

asserted 58:22 

assertion 14:11 

assesses 51 :22 

assistance 5: 18 

41:21 

assume 28:22 32:17 

assumed 21: 1 

assuming 33:7,11 

assumption 18:18 

Atlanta2:5 

attached 49:17 

attaches 9:21 

attempted 26:21 

attend41:7 44:12 

attcndance26:15 

attention 40:2 61:7 

attorney 2:19 3:14 

3:21 4:5 61:16 

available 32:18 

38:2140:17 45:3 

46:21 47:3 52:5 

54:3 55:4,19 56:7 

Aviation 2:4 3:12 

aware 26:19 36:2 

41:6 

awareness 36:9 

B 

B48:6 

8149:1,8,8 50:16 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 66 

B249:1 ! 

~ 

B3 49:2,8 50:3,16 I 

B3B50:15 I 

B3C 50: 15 I.·-.· B4 49:2 50:4,16 

back6:11 13:18 i.·.-

19:22 2o:1 22:17 1 

l 23:17 42:19 43:7 l 

43:9 44:2,16 ll·.· 

51:11 

background 19:11 I 

based 8:12 32:13 

, 

bear 50:8 

begins 64:21- l 

behalf2:2,8 4:1,20 • 

5:7 11:5 26:12 ! 

44:6 58:5 61:1 

64:6 

belief 56:13 

jj 

believel0:1612:10 ! 

28:5,12 30:10,18 ! 

33:22 

believes 13: 11 

27:16 

best 39:11 52:22 

56:2 

bit 10:6 40:15 

bottom40:9 

Bowen 2:9 3:21 4:9 l 

~ 

5:6,14,20,20 6:17 ~ 

6:19 7:1,8,18 8:11 1 

s:15 9:14,22 1 

10:10 11:4,9 ~ 

19:16 23:l,s I 

24:10 25:7,13 1 

26:5,20 27:5 l 

28:11,18 29:3,9 1'_,_: 

30:12,18 31 :2,6 : 

31:12 32:5,10 

33:3,19 34:20 ! 

35:4,15 36:6 37:9 l 

38:7,17 39:19 

40:19 42:1 44:6 

44:14 45:10,15 

46:3,18 47:2 49:9 l 

49:13,15,20,22 
50:10,14,20 53:4 call6:6 21:15 22:8 changing 29:18 complainant 2:2 

53:12,21 63:11 27:6 29:5 40:6,21 chapter 51 : 19,20 15:20 17:7 

64:1,4,8,18 65:2,8 41:10,12 43:20 check42:8 complainant's 

65:10 44:14 59:9 61:21 checked 42:11 47:19 

Bowen's 45:6 62:3,10 checkride 41:2 comp1aint4:16,22 

Box2:5 called 34:17 40:3 chief59:17 6:20 7:5,15 8:2,8 

boy 51:19 57:18 59:2 61:11 choice 60:10 8:10,18 9:1,10,13 

Brazil6:4 40:2,20 61:15 choose 59:8 9:19 11:16,21 

41:11,12 42:16,18 calling 19:121:16 chooses 26:14 29:5 12:7,17 13:20,22 

42:19,21 43:12,14 21:17 circumstances 16:7 17:9 54:2,5,10 

Brazilian 43:17 calls 41:20 civi116:3,15 18:15 complaint's 5:3 

Brazilians 40:8 capacity 5:9 18:21 19:8 22:9 complete 64:12 

Brian 62:6 care23:1 22:14,20 34:19 concern 39:2,18 

brief 56:1,8 case 1:7 4:13 9:3 35:3,8,13 46:12 concerned 26:7 

bring 32:3 43:4 19:4,20,21 20:1,4 46:14 47:14 53:11 concluded 65: 18 

61:6 22:5 23:14 27:18 54:7,8,12,17 55:3 conduct 30:19 

broader 63:3 29:8,16,18 30:3 55:14 conducted 36:20 

Brooksville 2: II 35:13,22 36:5,15 claim 21:12 37:7 

6:1 36:22 37:11,12 clarification 50:2 conference3:8 5:10 

brought 59:3 38:4 40:9 41:5 53:6 61:3 62:14 25:16 40:18 44:15 

Bs 50:17 43:13 44:21 45:14 clarify 11:11 confirm 61:8 

built 38:4 48:10 51:16 53:16 clear 54:6 57:3 confirmation 58:17 

business 5:5 39:22 54:8 55:1,9 57:22 clearances 43:11 confirming 63:21 

40:5 42:13 46:22 58:4 59:17,18 clearly 62:19 confusing 19:20 

56:3 64:12 60:7 62:5 clerical8:14 9:17 consequences 

bye65:15,16 cases7:1219:22 10:18,19 55:12 

certain 5:2 14:8 client 23:22 24:2,5 contact 5: 16 

c 19:4 32:12 42:20 24:7,14 27:14 contacted 63:14,19 

c 57:14 43:11 50:7 60:6 28:8,9 30:3 31:7 contacting 63:20 

C-17 47:20 48:2,10 certainly 23: 19 33:4 34:4 37:13 contested 59:20 

49:1 51:5 52:3,9 26:13 56:16 38:8 42:3 58:7 context20:8 

53:8 55:2157:14 certificate 21:18,22 61:1 continuance 39:7 

C-1847:21 51:6,8 21:22 client's 39:22 continue 13:22 

51:13 52:3,10 CFR7:1611:18 close 56:3,17 58:3 14:5 30:3 45:14 

53:8 55:21 25:18 61:4 62:16 Cody2:19 4:5 50:6 

c/o2:10 62:20 come 19:4 27:7 continuing 39:1 

calculated 3 7:21 challenge 20: 11 29:13 37:15 47:18 57:12 

46:15 47:15 53:11 35:2 51:7,1154:16 convened 3:7 

55:16 challenged 3 7: 1 comes42:8 conversation 27:2 

calculates 55:3 chance6:1914:19 coming 18:6 33:22 conversations 

calculation 12: I 14:20 33:5 57:4 38:12 26:17 

55:17 57:6 change 8:17 9:2 company 3: 19 copy 14:15 53:15 

calculations 20:12 10:18 29:16 20:21 41:17,19 correct 9:9 18:8 

34:2 46:12 changed 54:9 44:11 55:11 20:5,12 25:13 

calendar 12:1 changes 11:2,2 compel26: 12,15 26:5 38:17 40:19 

39:12 47:6 12:13 59:13,17 compelled 60:5 48:3 52:2,6 63:4 

="-"""'"'"''""' ='-""'""' .,. ···-""'""'"""·~~'"'"-"=" -"'"-'""''""'"''~--~~"'""" ·-··1"~----··-··- '"""""'"'''·~---<e,-u,,.,-~'"""'" '""="''=""""'""·>"' 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 67 

correction 8: 14 

9:17 

correctly 9: 11 

correspond 6: 15 l 

corresponds 50:21 : 

f 

Connsel2:4 i 

l 

couple 44:3 45:8 ' course45:2 I court6:22 15:22 

18:6 29:7 36:22 j 39:2,3 45:16 46:4 

60:18 * l 

: 

{ 

Court's 14:2 60:8 ' 

courtesy53:15 I courthouse 64:15 j 

courtroom 56:21 I 65:6 

creates 29:19 ! 

credibility 31: 19 l l 

critical28:18 39:11 ~ cross 32:18 59:19 l 

cross-examination 

32:21 35:7 ~ cross-examine I 

26:13 27:1 31:14 

cross-examining I 

59:11 n J: 

i' 

curative 53:18 54:1 ' i cure39:4,13 45:17 

57:13 i 

: 

curiosity24:6 ! 

,I 

currency 41 :4 

current 42:12 i ;! 

Currently 45: 10 ~ ~ 

cuts27:10 f 

' 

D 0 

~ D 34:15 ! 

damage28:1 I damaged 28: I ;i 

date 4:13 9:9 11:3 ~ § 

36:16 38:21 44:18 ! 

' David 13:6 18:11 { 

22:7 ~ day 39:13 45:3 47:4 " 

47:9,11 65:13 

*'" """"'" 
days7:15 11:3,20 

12:2 38:20 47:4 

56:7 

DC1:3 

dea17:2 

dealings 4 7: 1 

deals 7:3 

debated 17: 11 

decide 5:6 

decided 16:7 

deemed60:3 

defense 32:7 

defenses 20:3 

degree 54:19 

delivered 34:4 

denied 14:6 17:16 

60:14,16 

deny 12:12 58:15 

DEPARTMENT 

1:1 

depends 52:21 

depose21:7 

designated 18: 13 

43:7 

despite 54:9 

detai128: 12 

dialogue 45:9,15 

different 23:20 

26:1 28:7 36:19 

37:12 42:10 48:18 

50:8 58:19 

differently 36:11 

direct 53:6,14 

55:22 

directly 52:10 

disadvantage 3 5: 1 0 

38:3 

disagree 61:5 62:2 

disclose 13: 10 

disclosed 22:5 

37:13 58:20 

disclosing 38:10 

46:8,10 

disclosure 16:4 

18:22 

disclosures 22: 10 

disconnected 19:14 

discovery 8:6 22:11 

22:16 36:3,13,21 

37:7 38:1 55:6,11 

discrepancy 28:2 

discretion 55:16,18 

discuss 19:8 39:9 

40:10 44:19 

discussed 55:18 

discussing 35:13 

discussion 3 8:22 

47:2,14 

dispute 27:17 

disruption 19: 15 

distinct 27:9 

disturb 19:17 

Docket 1:5 3:5 

doctor42:21 43:6 

document 30:20 

dog 34:15 

doing 14:7 44:22 

50:11 

Donahue 26:9 

DOT2:19 

drastic 45:17 46:5 

46:7 

due 16:6 

Dunn 13:6 18:11 

19:7 22:7 33:16 

35:12 44:4 45:22 

46:947:17 52:12 

53:9 56:6 57:5 

60:15 

duplicative 3 3: 10 

E 

E 34:11 

earlier 15:6 46:3 

61:8 

early64:22 

Eastern 1: 14 

educated 57:15 

egg34:11 

eight9:5,18 

eight-page 25:9 

either 19:1,13 

29:10,22 39:5 

57:11 58:2 59:4 

61:8 

elicit 16:11,13,20 

52:11 

elicited 17:6 19:5 

eliminates 31:13 

37:16 

email6:7,13 

emergencies 43:1 

44:9 

emergent 46:21 

employ 21:20 

employee 22:4 29:2 

29:6 61:11,14,22 

62:3,7,11 

employees 25:20 

26:2,11 34:7 63:1 

engage 36:13 

engaged 55:11 

enlighten 10:8 

entertain 15:8 

56:16 

entertained 46:5 

entitled 25:10,11 

equipped 43:1 

errors 8:1410:19 

10:19 

especially 27:10 

ESQ2:3 

essence4:13 36:20 

essentially 8: 18 

25:18 32:1 33:20 

36:12 

evade41:14 

evaluate 30:4 

event60:4 

events 24:9 31:11 

31:14 

evidence 17:20 

exaggerated 54:18 

examination 32:19 

examining 59:20 

example 45:19 

61:21 

excerpt48:5,21 

51:18 

excerpts 52:4 

exchange 15:19,21 

16:17,22 

exchanging 46:12 

exclude 5:2 12:22 

13:3,9 14:8,16 

17:15 27:14 29:22 

45:11 58:16 60:13 

60:15 

excluding 39:1,6 

57:11 

excuse 13:14 16:19 

27:15 28:9 31:8 

exhibit 16:18,22 

34:22 49:1,16 

51:5,6,8,13 52:3,3 

52:9,10 53:8,8 

exhibits 15:21 

47:12,19,19,20 

49:17,19 55:21 

exists 46:11 

expand40:15 

expectation 18:2 

expected 16:10 

17:5 

expects 16:10,20 

experienced 53: 19 

experiencing 3 7:2 

expert16:1117:19 

18:17 21:2,3,7,10 

21:16 22:3 61:12 

61:16 62:1 

experts 13:11 21:13 

21:14,16 

explain 51: 15 

explanation 56:1 

explanatory 53:7 

expressed 54:14 

extent55:13 60:17 

cxtra53:16 

extreme 39:5,6 

. 57:10 

eye 25:5 57:15 

F 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 68 

FAA1:5 3:144:17 

8:13 13:3,4,5,6 

22:7,13 24:8 26:2 ~ 

26:10,14,15 29:1 

29:4 31:14 34:7 

35:7 38:9,16 ~ 

39:15 42:6 48:5,9 ! 

51:18,2254:7,11 1 

54:15,20 55:2,5,7 ! 

58:5,22 59:8 60:1 i 

60:11 61:13,17,20 1 

61:21 62:3 i 

FAA's 6:20 35:12 I 

53:10 54:22 58:18 I 

59:18 ' 

FAA-2013-0045 I 

3:5 

facie 35:12 55:1 

facility 6:2 42:20 

43:8,9 

fact 18:13 35:15 

54:9,15 59:18 

60:4 62:4,7,12 

facts 24:13,15 

30:14 

failure 13:9 

Fair48:12 

fairly 53:1 57:7 

family42:14 

Fanning 28:20 

30:14 31:1,5 62:6 li'.··b·:: 63:13,21 

Fanning's 28:14 

31:232:11 I 

i! far21:12 44:17 

Farmer 13:5 18:11 l 

19:7 22:7 33:16 l 

35:11 44:3 45:21 i 

47:18 52:12 53:9 i 

56:6 57:5 60:15 l 

Farmer's46:9 

fashion 6: 15 

!I 

l 

! fax 2:6,12 

Fcbruary1:113:6 ! 

4:14,15,18 9:10 

9:11 11:22 13:2 
15:1,19 25:9 

36:18 38:16,20 

45:20 46:4 47:6 

49:12 54:4 62:18 

Federal2:4 3:12 

16:3,15 18:21 

feel10:2 

felt 60:5 

fewer 24:3,7 

figures 50:7 

file 15:7,9 38:19 

filed 3:9 4:15,16,20 

7:6,15 11:21 12:2 

13:2 25:22 36:15 

46:19 54:4,10 

Finally 10:22 

financial20:4 

34:18 

find 36:14,21 57:1 

57:9 59:5 

finding 36:11 37:3 

finds 46:6 

finish 10:5 

finishing 44:21 

lirst4:12 5:5 7:2,6 

11:18 16:1 23:5,8 

33:6,21 45:22 

47:1148:20 49:1 

65:1 

five 15:14 

FL2:11 

flies 42:21 43:6 

Florida 5:22 47:10 

58:2 64:14 

fly 42:12 

focus 51 :4 

focused 14:10 

folks 14:7 

foregoing 65:17 

foremost 11: 18 

forget 33:5 

formally35:21 

formulated 22:20 

forth46:15 51:20 

forward 29:20 

46:16 64:13 

found 23:9 

four 34:10 42:5 

48:21 

Frank 16:13,22 

frankly 9:8 

frantic 41:1 0 

Friday 1:10 3:6 

4:1941:8 

friend 3:21 25:4 

44:6 64:6 

front 50:12 

fully 41:6,7 46:16 

future40:5 

G 

G25:1162:19 

GA2:5 

gather41:18 50:9 

genera127:20 35:7 

36:9 44:5 51:20 

generally 3 8:2 

George 25: 11 

getting 41:2 

give 10:8 51:3 53:2 

57:15 

given 14:1 36:8 

39:7 

gives 51:1 

go 6:9 9:15 12:20 

13:18 29:17,19 

37:17,20 42:10 

43:3 46:1647:13 

48:15 51:5 52:22 

65:12 

goes21:5 24:11,18 

24:19 

going7:5,10 11:11 

11:1112:2213:17 

14:14 23:13,15 

26:22 27:5,7 

28:12,19 29:17 

31:18 33:7,8,9,12 

33:13 35:16,17,18 

37:14,20 38:5 

39:5 40:4 44:1,2 

45:2 51:3 53:5,5 

53:13,17 54:1,12 

55:22 60:20 

good4:7,9,10 65:12 

governed 61: 13,17 

government 43: 18 

grant29:7 

granted 60: 17 

granting/denying 

4:14 25:10 

great28:12 51:12 

guarantee 32:19 

guess I 0:5 24:19 

28:20 38:7 41:9 

42:8 

guidance 51 :21 

guidelines 51:21 

H 

H-A34:14 

hand 37:18 

Handing 34:13,14 

handle37:11,12 

happened 3 3 :2 

43:12 

happens 42:13 

happy 15:8 

Harbor 5:22 

he'll57:7 

hear46:3 

heard 13:15 33:6 

33:21 

hearing 6:11 7:16 

11:3,20 12:2 

17:1219:15,22 

23:7,10 24:19 

31:20,21 44:15,22 

45:4 46:15,18 

47:1156:8 59:7,9 

64:16,21 

hearings 1 :2 4:4 

59:12 

heart27:17 

held25:16 

help 63:7 64:11 

helpful23 :4 44:1 

55:9 

Highway 5:21 

history4:12 

hold 21:21 

holds 21:17 

Honeycutt 3:18,19 

3:22 4:19 5:17 

6:4,4,16 7:21 8:21 

9:5 11:5 12:8 

23:6 25:4 26:11 

26:18 28:9 29:1 

29:13 31:9 38:18 

39:2141:17 42:12 

44:7,11 46:19 

49:10 53:19 54:3 

55:10 56:4,7,13 

56:22 57:4 64:6 

64:14 

Honeycutt's 5:8 

9:12 12:15 13:8 

25:21 31:1 39:8 

40:16 57:21 63:20 

Honor9:14,22 10:2 

11:9 20:7 31:6 

33:4 37:10 38:8 

42:1 49:9 50:10 

63:1164:3,8 

HONORABLE 

1:19 

hope 14:15 

hopefully 37:8 

hospital42:14 43:4 

43:9 

hour 57:17 

I 

I-N-G34:15 

I.C.U2:10 

idea 26:18 51:1 

identified 13: 12 

14:1118:1045:21 

60:18 

identify 5:19 8:11 

9:11 

identifying 3: 10 

34:10 

igloo 34:12 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 69 

immediate 40:2 

impact40:5 

important 23: 13,22 

improper 30:19 i 

32:2 I 

I incident 24:13 

include 14:4 46:8 

included 15:19,20 l 

18:20 21:8 55:20 li 

including 26:3 

indicated6:12 8:1 

25:2 62:21 

indicates 25: 14 

27:15 34:1 50:14 

indicating 6:8 15:6 

41:10 

indication 27:21 

individuals 21:21 

34:16 36:16 

inequity45:19 

informal26: 17 

~ l 

I 

~ 

rr 

I 

~ 

~ 

I I information 16: 12 1 

17:522:1325:6 ! 

35:9 46:9,13 50:9 I 

55:8 57:14 ! 

initially 3 6: 15 

initials 3 : 14 I 

initiated 36:3 

injured 40:1 42:16 , 

injuries 43:2 1 

inquire46:17 1 

inspector 13:5 42:7 I 

instance 61 :20 

integral54:22 

intends 16:13 

intent 16:5 

interest 54:16 

56:15 

interested 23:6 

intern2:17,18 4:6,7 ' 

interpretation 61:4 

Q 61:6 ! 

interview 56:8 

introduce 35:2 

investigation 23:12 " 

23:13 24:11,21 I 

l 
27:11 28:13 29:15 

30:12 37:17 

involved 6:3 23: 12 

23:21 32:2 35:21 

46:22 47:2 

Irene 2:17 4:7 

irrelevant 23: 19 

irrespective 55:5,6 

issue 17:8,1122:10 

24:20 27:22 28:2 

28:8 29:14 59:20 

issued 15:6 62:18 

issues27:1128:14 

64:12 

J 

J.E1:19 

January25:17 

JET2:10 

Judge 1:20 3:3 4:11 

5:12,13 6:14,18 

7:4,10 8:7,16 9:15 

10:4,12,16,22 

11:4,10 14:17,18 

14:22 15:4,12,13 

15:17 17:13,17 

18:5,9,12 19:6,10 

19:18 20:5,9,15 

20:16,19,20 22:1 

22:6,22 24:1 25: I 

25:8,14 26:6 27:4 

27:13 28:17,21 

29:4 30:9,15,22 

31:4,7,22 32:6,15 

33:15 34:5,21 

35:6,20 36:8 38:6 

38:14,18 40:14 

41:16 43:22 44:8 

45:7 46:1,2 47:16 

47:22 48:4,7,12 

48:14,16,20 49:3 

49:6,11,18,20,21 

50:1,5,13,18,22 

51:11,12,17 52:1 

52:7,13,14,19,22 

53:1,3,4,13,22 

58:8,13 61:2,6,19 

62:5,9,13 63:8,9 

63:18 64:4,9,20 

65:5,9,11,15 

K 

K34:12 

Kahler 26:8 

keep 57:22 

key 24:16 

kind 8:17 23:3 37:8 

37:17 55:15 

kinds 7:12 

kitty34:12 

knew 37:6 

know 7:8 14:19 

22:10 23:5 24:18 

24:22 28:15,19 

29:20 31:18 33:19 

35:16,17,20 37:11 

37:20 39:20,21,22 

40:12 41:5,16 

42:4 43:10,15,16 

43:17,19 57:7 

58:9 64:17 

knowledge 24:9,11 

31:16 34:19 

known 37:6 38:11 

Kurt34:13,14 

L 

L 2:19 4:5 34: II 

lamb 34:11 

latest 65:7 

law 1:20 2:17,18 

4:6,7 5:1,4 

lay 3:18 

layperson 56:2 

leads 28:5 

leave 6:5 41:11 

43:14 56:20 

lengthy 48: II 

let's 12:20 28:21 

32:17 33:16 40:1 

48:14 

letter 7:20 

light 19:4 21:15 

32:4 

limited25:19 46:8 

57:16 62:21 

line40:9 

Lisa34:10 

list 5:3 15:20 16:17 

22:2 25:21 26:4 

34:6,22 35:13 

45:21 49:16 56:18 

listed 16:14,19,21 

19:7 22:4 26:8,9 

26:10 34:8,17 

listing 26: 1 

lists 38:15 

litigators 19:3 

little9:19 26:6 

30:15 36:3 40:15 

50:16 53:16 

located 5: 15 

location45:4 47:10 

long 52:21 59:13 

look 13:18 39:12 

45:17 47:5 48:1 

56:5 57:14 62:17 

64:13 

looked 8:8 35:5 

looking 8:18 13:7 

13:19 47:7 51:13 

M 

major41:13 

manual27:20 

March47:8,10 

64:15 

marked47:20,20 

Martha 13:5 18:11 

22:7 

material8:2 10:20 

12:17 18:1 57:1 

materials 13:8 

34:22 47:12 55:19 

matter 1:5,13 3:4 

7:14 12:3 44:19 

54:21 56:20 58:19 

60:1 65:17 

matters 34:18 

44:12 45:18 56:19 

59:5 

mean 10:1 24:6 

30:6 33:19 37:7 

37:12 39:19 40:11 

41:14 49:15 63:12 

means 12:1 56:21 

58:3 

medical40:2 42:20 

43:8,8 46:22 

meet20:22 

memorandum 4:22 

5:4 

mentioned 25: 15 

mentioning 58: 15 

merit 11:17 12:18 

46:6 

meritorious 12: 11 

merits 10:17 

message 6:7,11 

methods 40:11 

Michael3:17 13:4 

15:18 

Mike 7:22 65:3 

miles 6:1 

mind37:16 

mine 61:9 

minute20:19 44:10 

48:1 

Page 70 

13:3,9,21 14:3,5,8 ! 

i 14:9,16 15:1,3,16 

17:8,14 23:2 

,! 25:16 27:14 38:19 

39:8 46:20 56:17 r 

58:16 60:13,15 

motions 3:8 4:20 

6:21 22:17 i 

move44:15 51:8,10 1 

57:21 

moved 13:22 

moving34:12 

44:18 45:11 

mute 19:13 

mystified 9:7 10:6 

----- N 

N34:14 

name22:2 

named36:17 

Nancy 34:15 

narrowed 20:6 

nature 39:22 

near43:7 

necessary 21 :7 

43:21 

j 

j 

need 15:15 19:5 l 

37:17 40:22 42:17 l 

60:22 ! 

minutes6:17 15:14 needs40:2 42:22 ~ ~ 

~ 

60:19 53:16 59:7 

misstated 62:16 

mistaken 51:16 

misunderstood 

45:9 

moment3:1l4:2 

6:5 10:11 41:1 

43:14 51:4 

moments 11:8 

Monday 39:16 45:1 

47:8 

month36:5 

motion3:7 4:21 5:1 

5:9 7:7 8:9,19 

10:14,15 11:15 

12:12,19,20,21 

Nemesio2:17 4:7 

never27:1 1 

new 8:5 9:20 36:12 ! 

53:20 59:4 ! 

non-disclosed 59:4 

North 5:21 

notated 21:18 

note4:12 7:11 

12:11,14 14:1 

19:10 57:20 

noted 17:21 

notes49:14 

notice 1:14 4:16 8:8 

15:21 16:16,18,22 

17:10 21:10 48:20 

I 

I 

I 

' 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 
48:22 54:2,5,11 

noticed 25:21 

nnmber3:5 8:21 

30:2 50:19 54:2 

numbers 49:5 

nurse42:21 43:5 

nutshell45:5 

0 

o26:15 

object 12:9 44:19 

objection4:21 5:11 

5:14 8:19,22 9:4 

10:15 12:12 13:20 

13:21 14:2 38:19 

39:8 46:6,20 

objections 12:10 

obligation 32:8 

observation 24:5 

observers 4:4 

obviously 23:17 

49:8 55:12 58:22 

occur44:9 59:13 

occurred 30:13 

31:15 32:12,13 

occurring 35:11 

occurs 31: 16 

offered 3:22 

office 1:2 2:4 4:3,5 

6:8 15:1 36:16 

41:10 63:14,19,20 

oh23:16 37:19 

50:20,20 58:13 

okay4:11 5:13 6:12 

6:18 7:4,8 8:15 

9:14 10:12 11:4 

11:10 14:18 15:4 

15:13 18:5,9 

19:10,17,18 20:9 

20:16 22:6,22,22 

25:1,7 27:4 28:17 

28:21 29:3,12 

30:1,2 32:6,15 

33:15 34:21 35:6 

35:20 36:8 37:22 

38:6 43:22 45:7 

47:22 50:5,13,21 

51:12 52:1,19 

53:4,12,21 64:4,9 

65:8,9 

once 57:1 

open 57:22 

operating 44:11 

operation 27:20 

opinion 21:10 

36:10 60:8 61:12 

61:16 62:1 

opportunity 10:8 

13:15 56:4 

opposed 8:16 24:6 

24:7 

options 45:17 

ora115:9 45:12 

60:19 

orally 22:18 

order4:14 5:5 15:6 

25:3,4,9,10 48:5 

51:18 62:17 

originally 18:20 

Orr 2:18 4:6 

outside 6:1 41:20 

p 

P2:3,18 3:15 4:6 

P-R-0-C-E-E-D-... 

3:1 

p.m 1:14 3:2 52:20 

53:16 56:3 65:18 

P.02:5 

page 8:21 9:4 25:8 

26:3,8,9,10 27:15 

34:13 48:17,18,18 

48:20,22 49:1,4,8 

50:3,19 62:18 

pages48:21 51:5 

52:9 

Palm 5:22 

paragraph 9:5,9,17 

9:18 17:7 20:20 

25:1127:16,21 

34:9 62:19 

parameters 57:6 

parcel54:22 

part 13:9 48:7,13 

48:17,17,19 50:17 

51:14 54:21,22 

55:20 

participation 5: 1 8 

particular 6: 10 

11:15,21 12:19 

17:4 22:5 23:2 

25:5 62:5 

parties3:711:14 

25:17 46:16 47:4 

56:20 64:16 

party25:20 45:19 

61:12,18 62:22 

patient43:6,15 

Paul2:9 3:20 5:20 

pay20:8 

penalties 18:15 

22:9 46:14 55:3 

55:14 

penalty 19:9 22:14 

22:21 34:19 35:3 

35:9,14 37:5 

46:12 47:14 51:22 

53:11 54:7,8,12 

54:17 57:6 

people 24:3 26:1 

34:8,17 37:4,22 

42:10 

perception 3 3: 1 

56:13 

perfected 12:8 

period 8:3 

person42:17 

personal24:4,8, 10 

personnel42:22 

persuaded 37:1 

persuasive 59:5 

phone 19:11,12,13 

43:20 

pick43:3 

piece25:5 

pilot40:22 41:1,19 

42:7,11 

pilots 42:6,9 

place 5:8 6:6 65:3 

plan 52:11 

planning 35:2 

pleading 7:13,14 

please 5:19 48:1 

51:1564:17 

point 13:13 16:9 

17:418:15 24:2 

32:17 35:1 51:9 

57:9 

pointed 17:7 48:8 

points 28:7 

policies 18:14 

51:21 

policy 19:9 

pool29:6 

portion 20:4 

pose 57:8 

position 10: I ,6, 14 

10:18 11:12 20:10 

33:17 61:7,9 62:2 

62:10 

possibility 44:17 

possible 22:3 39:4 

44:20 

possibly37:16 

potential16:2,14 

19:7 34:8 

potentially 19:5 

39:13 47:3 

prejudice 8:11 9:21 

10:3,7 17:3 29:19 

33:14 37:3 60:9 

prejudiced 9:6 

13:13 14:12 17:14 

31:9 36:10 57:10 

prejudices 8:4 

prejudicial9: 1 

10:21 12:16 

prep44:21,2145:3 

prepare 19:3 

prepared 40:10 

41:7 

presence 60:9 

64:10 

present2:15 3:19 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 71 

I~ 4:3 26:14 54:2o 1 

59:22 60:1 63:22 I 

presentation 58:1 

presented 21: 1 

56:11 

president 3: 17 

pressure 32:3 

j 

' N 

~ 

I 

{ pretty 24:13 . 

Previous 25: 15 l 

i previously 14:11 1 

prima35:12 55:1 i 

Primary 31:10 32:7 ' i ! prior 7:6 11:2 

64:16 

private 56:8 

proactively 21: 14 , 

probably 42:2 ! 

57:17 ~ 

problem 37:10 39:4 I 

41:13 ! 

problems 46:22 

60:12 

' 

Procedure 16:4,16 I 

18:21 I 

proceeding 36:4 

61:13,17 

prohibited 25: 19 

62:22 

prominently 26:3 

pronouns 64:2 

properly 13:10 

proposed 22:20 

34:19 35:3,8,13 

37:5 48:9 53:10 

55:3,14 

provide 22:12 

35:19 51:2 52:8 

53:6,14,17 56:1 

57:13 62:1 

provided 8:12 

22:12 38:15 42:7 ! 

49:10,12 ·' 

province 62:20 

public 52:5 55:4,19 

publications 52:4 

published 51:15 
55:4 28:2 reminded 25:17 21:12 27:20 32:7 

purposes 30:16 recognized 16:2 reminder 60:21 33:1,17 34:5 

62:4,11 recommend49:13 replace 18:4 35:10 54:18 58:16 

pursuant 1: 14 65:5 replica 48:2 59:6,17 60:13,14 

put 19:13,16 38:3 recommendations replied 6:9 60:1662:11 

43:5 52:15 39:17 report 34:1,3,3 respondents 5:8 

reconsider 62:9 46: II 20:2 

0 reconvening 44:18 reports 21:7 responds 41: 19 

qualifying 18:17 record3:3,15 56:10 representations 55:6 

question 7:22 17:18 57:19 65:12 32:14 response 12:6 15:8 

23:12 24:16 27:17 reduced48:21,21 representative 3:18 15:9,10,15 23:4 

36:1 48:12 refer 3:13 55:10 39:17 44:5 45:6 

questions 11: 13 referenced 7:20 represented 3:14 59:18 

27:19 32:16,21 9:18 51:14 3:17 responsive 58:3 

44:3 45:8 56:9 referencing 49:8 requcst9:12 22:16 60:7 

57:8 referring 50:19 22:18,19 36:3 rest9:16 19:15 

quickly 52:14 reflect 35:19 44:16 60:16 45:1 

quite 9:7 48:10 reflected 33: I requested 5:17 result 17:10 22:14 

60:7 regard 17:15 18:14 58:11 29:17 30:20 42:17 

R 51:21 58:10 requests 55:6 43:10 

regarding 18:15 Rescue2:10 resulted45:18 raised 17:9,9 21:9 22:8 35:8 reserve 57:21 resume21:19 range55:17,18 Regional2:4 resolving 64:11 retain 21: 13 reach 39:21 regulation 12:5 respectfully 58: 15 reveal24:18 reached 22:13 48:2 61:10 62:21 61:5 review6:19 15:2 

react 8:5 63:3 respond 12:9 40:4 55:19 read 7:18,19 25:4 regulations II : 1 60:5 revised 63:3 61:10 32:9 46:13 51:15 respondent 1:9 2:8 right7:1410:3 reading 8:9 relate 46: 14 3:10,15 4:20 9:7 12:4,7 29:5 31:12 reads 57: I relates 24:20 27:12 11:5 12:613:2,13 33:15 35:4 57:13 ready46:17 28:11,13 14:12 17:3,10,14 62:15 63:5 64:2 really 24:14 43:11 relay6:7 18:18 20:7,10,20 64:21 65:2,15 45:5 relevant 48:8 21:5,15,20 22:19 rights 36:13 

reason 14:6 19:2 relied 53:9 28:10 31:9 32:3 ringing 19: 11 53:22 relief4:15 25:10 32:20,22 34:9 rough 11:22 reasonable 12:6 29:7 38:22 45:13 35:1 36:4,10,12 Rule 18:21 reasoning 22: I 57:22 60:17,18 36:20 37:2,5 44:7 Rules 16:3,15 

reasons 17:13 relieved59:19 45:10,12 52:16 18:21 rebut 22:3 60:2 relying 32:11 53:14 54:10,14,19 ruling 11:12 14:2,3 rebutting 56:15 remaining 47:5 55:7 58:12 59:7 14:4 20:7 58:9,10 receive 14:20,21,22 51:5 59:10,19,21 60:7 60:19 15:1 44:13 remedied 40: II 61:15,18,22 62:4 received9:1210:14 s remedies 39:14,14 62:7 14:15,16 15:5 remedy29:21 39:5 respondent's 5: I S 34: II 

22:16,18 41:3 39:6 40:13 44:20 6:21 8:19 9:2 safety 13:5 32:9 

63:15 51:2 53:18 57:11 12:21 14:2,5 sake28:22 

receptacle 2 7:22 

="'" -~·' .. -""~~=,~·'' ~"~'"'~""'" k ..... ~"" ··-~" ,d ___ .,.,~ •• -"."''''·· "' >~>>IThl~N ' ' _,"' 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 72 

Sam34:11 

sanction 48:9 51:20 

sanctions 48:6 

satisfied 32:22 

saw13:17 

saying 10:5 11:7 

33:4 37:10 38:8 

41:18,22 45:16 ~ 

46:250:16 ~ 

says 8:20,21 37:21 I 

; 

42:15 61:10 § 

Schaefer 16:14,22 ~ 

17:19,20 18:4,6 

23:7,9,17,19 26:4 

26:7 27:8 28:7,16 j 

' ' 29:10,10,11 30:1 f 

I 

30:7,11 31:17,20 ~ 

' 

32:1,14,17 33:7,8 ' 

' 

33:9,11,12 59:1,6 

59:11 

Schaefer's 28:4 ~ 29:14 58:21 y, 

f 

schedule 55:15 

scope 62:16 63:4 j 

second 5: I 12:20 ¥ 

17:22 23:11 37:191 

45:13 

Section7:1611:18 I 

25:1861:462:16 j 

f 

62:20 ; 

security 65: I 4 

~ 

see 10:7 13:16 51:4 

57:5 I 

ft seeing 53:20 64:13 I 

seek 54:12 61:3 f seeking 54:7 'l 

send49:19 52:15 ij 

series 20:2 

seriously 42:16 I 

serve 56:14 ~ 

f 

served25:9 1 

' Services 1:7 2:9 3:4 i 

3:16 ' I 

set3:712:22 24:14 

sets 51:20 I 

settle 64:16 ,, ll 

f 

' -' 
seven 34:8 

severe 9:21 

severely 9:6 13:12 

14:12 57:10 

short 3:7 8:3 39:1 

39:13 52:8 

shortly4:18 25:22 

41:2 59:14 

show 30:5,7 31:17 

33:8,9,12,13 

shows 30:1,7 33:9 

signed 30:21,21 

similar 21 :21 

simple47:16 

simply4:12 7:11 

9:9 12:11 17:21 

46:20 62:20 

Singleton 13:4 

15:18 16:1,6,8,11 

16:21 17:6,15,18 

18:3 21:4,17 23:3 

23:15,18,20,21 

24:21 28:6,15 

29:22 30:5,6,10 

31:15 58:14,16,18 

59:1,3 60:14 

Singleton's 28:3 

60:9 

sit 6:9 

sitting4:4 37:14 

situation 30:4 40:7 

six25:8 62:18 

Smith2:19 4:5 

solicit 62:7 

soliciting 62:12 

solutions 46:6,7 

somebody 27:6,9 

29:13 40:142:14 

42:15 43:4 

somewhat 9:7 

36:22 

soon 53:2 

sooner 14:7 

sorry 13:19 31:8 

48:15 49:22 58:13 

sounds 59:21 

source 22:11 

speak 5:7,8 

speaking 38:2 

specialist 13:6,6 

specific 30:16 

50:17 

specifically 14: 10 

specified 5:2 

spelled 34:14 

spoke 11:8 

stabilize42:18 

staff2:19 6:16 

40:17 

start 14:14 15:17 

23:3 

starting 34:9 

starts 64:19 

state21 :14 

statement 21:9 

30:13,21,22 31:1 

31:3 32:11,13 

52:9 53:7 54:6 

57:2 58:18 59:6 

63:12 

statements 30:19 

32:2 

States 40:3 41:20 

42:20 

stay43:6 

stead29:14 

stipulation 20:1 

strategy 9:3 

stricken 58:12 

strike 4:21 8:9,20 

10:15 11:16 12:12 

14:3 17:8 27:14 

strong 54:15 

structured 55:15 

57:7 

student2:17,18 4:6 

4:7 

style 41:15 

subbing 59:1 

subpart61:14 

subparts 61:18 

subpoena 25:20 

26:11,2127:3 

29:161:21 63:1 

63:13,15 

subpoenaed 62:6 

Subpoenas 25:12 

substantialS: 17 

37:3 

substantially 59:16 

substituted 28:4 

substituting 17: 19 

sudden 37:19 

suddenly 3 7:2 

sufficient 15:2 

20:22 

suggest 54:17 

suggested 39:15 

45:12 

Suite 5:21 

SULLIVAN 1:19 

3:3 4:11 5:13 

6:14,18 7:4,10 8:7 

8:16 9:15 10:4,12 

11:4,10 14:18 

15:4,13 17:17 

18:5,9 19:10,18 

20:9,16 22:6,22 

24:1 25:1,8,14 

26:6 27:4,13 

28:17,21 29:4 

30:9,15,22 31:4,7 

31:22 32:6,15 

33:15 34:5,21 

35:6,20 36:8 38:6 

38:14,18 40:14 

41:16 43:22 45:7 

46:2 47:22 48:7 

48:14,16 49:3,6 

49:11,18,21 50:1 

50:5,13,18,22 

51:12 52:1,7,14 

52:19 53:1,4,13 

53:22 58:13 62:13 

63:9,18 64:4,9,20 

65:5,9,11,15 

summary52:8 53:7 

supplemental 

45:20 57:2 

support 12:18 

sure 5:20 8:7 25:3 

35:18 

surprise 53:19 

54:15,18 

surrounding 30:14 

T 

table 48:6 

take 10:14 15:14 

23:17 47:22 48:1 

49:14 56:5 63:12 

talk20:17 33:16 

37:22 54:16 57:4 

talked 39:20 

talking 13 : 1 51:1 

63:2,19 

Tampa47:9 56:20 

58:2 64:14 

Teleconference 

1:12 

telephone 3:20 41:7 

tell15:15 

ten9:1915:14 

38:19 

terms 22:6 32:8,16 

34:18 41:4 56:15 

60:11 

tested 31:20 

testify23:15 24:3 

26:12 27:7,8 

29:14 30:10 31:5 

31:11 34:17 35:16 

37:4,15 38:12 

57:18 58:19 61:22 

testifying 17:21 

testimony 14:13 

16:10,12,18,19 

17:5 18:3 19:6 

20:22 21:9 22:3 

23:10 28:4,5,6,14 

28:20 31:13 33:11 

39:646:1047:17 

52:1153:10 56:10 

56:16 58:21 59:4 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 73 

59:22 60:2 62:1,4 

62:8,12 

thank6:18 11:13 : 

~ 

12:19 18:9 19:18 ' 

40:14 43:22 49:6 1 

50:1 58:14 60:21 ! 

62:13 63:8,17 

64:10 65:4,10,11 1 

65:14 ! 

I theory29:16,18 

thing 13:1,18 27:9 

33:20 40:11 i 1 things 6:3 29:22 l 

32:12 36:14 37:21 ~ 40:12 44:9 w 

think 7:1912:8 ~ 

13.17 23.8,11 I 

24:12,13,14 26:20 il 

27:5,7 2s:11 29:7 1 

29:12,18 32:1o 1 

33:13 34:20 36:17 l 

37:s 38:2,12 41:2 1 

45:8 50:18,22 ; 

51:7 53:3,18 54:1 J 

!i 55:9 57:12 l 

~ thinking 37:14 

thinks 56:14 

thought 11:7 26:21 ~ i 38:5 j 

I three 8:21 10:19 

13:3 14:10 21:1 

27:15 34:7 42:5 

58:11 I 

! 

time 1:15 8:3 12:6 l 

12:13 15:2,7 16:5 ! 

18:16 19:1 20:22 

21:6 23:8 33:6,21 

34:4 36:14 39:11 

45:22 53:2,17 i 

60:2 64:19,20 i 

65:3 

timing39:7 

today3:6,9,20 4:1 

6:22 7:11 15:9 

30:17 35:22 40:6 

41:645:147:1 
52:18,20,20 53:16 

56:3 58:7 61:1 

63:2 64:7,11 

transport42: 17,19 

TRANSPORT A,.. 

1:1 

transports 43:9 

travel47:9 

traveling 45:4 

tria114:1,6 56:17 

57:12 59:14,14,15 

trials 59:12 

tried 39:20 

tries 39:3 45:16 

true24:4 38:13 

try45:17 

trying 41:14 60:11 

Tuesday 15:5 29:17 

45:2 

turn5:10 10:13 

44:2 60:20 

two4:20 6:21 9:4 

10:19 13:10 18:19 

26:9,10 29:22 

30:2 32:16 33:18 

36:11,16 37:4 

42:9 47:18 53:20 

56:7 

type11:1918:1 

21:14 42:9 46:10 

types 43:1,2 50:8 

typically 7:12 39:3 

45:16 

u 

U34:14 

u.s 1:1 5:21 

unable6:510:10 

21:13 38:1 41:11 

41:12 43:14,18,20 

unavailability 39:9 

unclear 9:19 

understand 10:1 

13:7 19:3 23:14 

33:3 36:6 37:9 

43:12,13 44:9 

52:2 56:2 59:10 

understanding 

14:9 20:15 21:19 

undue 32:2 

unequivocal 54:6 

unforeseen 40:7 

unfortunate 39:10 

United40:3 41:20 

42:19 

use 16:5,7 

usually 64:21 

utilized 53:8 

v 

variety 26:1 

various 46:13 

verified 41 :8 

verify 65:3 

Vines2:3 3:15 4:10 

5:10,12 7:20 

10:13,13,16 11:15 

14:14,17,22 15:12 

15:1718:2,8,12 

19:19 20:5,13,14 

20:17,19 22:15 

39:20 44:1,8 46:1 

47:13,16 48:4,12 

48:15,19 49:4,7 

49:18 50:3,6,18 

51:3,7,10,17 52:6 

52:8,13,17,21 

53:3,6 55:22 57:2 

58:6,8 60:20 61:2 

62:13 63:7,8,17 

64:13 65:14 

violated 32:9 

violations 50:8 

w 

wait37:19 

waived 36:13 

waiving 20:3 

walk48:17 

want 10:8 13:18 

16:9 22:8 24:17 

29:13 39:14 51:10 

61:2 64:22 65:2 

wanted 27:3,8 33:5 

37:22 

wants 32:3 

warranted 57:12 

WASHINGTON 

1:3 

way2:10 32:21 

35:22 36:20 37:11 

37:12 40:20,20 

50:21 55:2 60:6 

63:13 

we'114: 1 

we're 3:3 7:4,10 

13:119:17 37:20 

51:1 

we've 33:21 

Wednesday 41:9 

44:22 47:10 64:15 

week 15:5,6 39:10 

47:7 

weekend 56:5 

welcome 63: 10 

William2:3 3:15 

wish 65:12 

wishes 29:6 

witness 5:3,3 15:18 

16:3,15,1717:20 

17:22 21:3 25:21 

29:2 31:10,18 

34:6 38:15 44:21 

45:21 49:16 52:11 

56:18,18 58:1 

59:2,20 60:1,5,12 

61:12,16 

witnesses 5:2 7:3 

9:3 13:3,4,10 14:8 

14:10 15:2118:10 

18:12,14,17,20 

19:2,8 21:2,8 22:8 

24:8 25:12 26:4 

26:13,15 29:5 

33:18 34:9 35:8 

35:19 36:12 38:5 

38:10,11 45:11 

53:20 54:16,21 

56:6 57:11,18 

58:11 59:9 

wondering 8: 10 

39:16 

words 24:12 

work59:19 

Worldwide 1:7 2:9 

3:4,16 23:8 42:4 

Wouldn't 24:1 31:4 

written 15:7,10 

21:7 22:19 34:1,3 

46:10 

wrong38:9 41:4 

52:3 

X 

y 

year 37:6 54:11 

yesterday 40:18 

44:13 

z 

0 

1 

1:0041:9 

1015:22 

10th15:19 

114:16 11:22 36:18 

38:16 45:20 49:12 

13.214 7:17 11:19 

13.22725:18 61:4 

62:17,20 

14 7:16 11:18 25:18 

61:4 62:16,20 

156:17 7:1511:2 

11:19 

1620:20 

1717:7 27:21 

18 9:10 57:15 

19 5:21 9:1127:16 

2 

2:00 1:14 41:8 

2:05 3:2 

20 54:4 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 74 

2009S0150216 1:8 i 

20139:10,1154:5 I 

2013-0045 1:6 i 

20141:113:64:14 ! 

4:16,19 11:22 1 

13:225:9,17 I 

36:18 38:16,20 l 

39:16 45:20 46:4 I 

46:19 47:8,11 

49:12 62:18 64:15 i 

206362:5 

21 4:18 12:2 13:2 

38:20 46:4 

2150.3B48:5 50:11 I 

50:14 51:18 

2lst46:19 

24th 39:16 47:6 

25612:10 ! 

25th 15:2 I ' 

2616:4,16 18:21 

i 281:11 i 

_z8_t_h_3_:6_

3

=----l 

3:oo52:18 1 

3:24 65:18 l 

30320 2:5 i 

3os-szoo 2:6 1 

;~;;:;;3 2 6 i .•. 

34604 2:11 fl 

l 351115:21 ii 

3522:11,12 1 

3rd 47:8 ! -

______ fl 

i __ ___::!...._ 4 __ li !! 

44:1425:962:18 , l 40 6:1 ! 

4042:6,6 i 

----~ 

___ s"------ I 

5:00 52:20 , 

5th47:10 64:15 ! 

~ 

i 

'l 

__ ____!!6'----- l 

6 53:15 56:3 
. 

7 

751:19 

796-2540 2:11 

796-2549 2:12 

8 

8:45 65:6 

9 

9 64:21 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 75 
76 

C E R T I F I C A T E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc. 

Before: us DOT 

Date: Friday, February 28, 2014 

Place: via teleconference 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

(202) 234-4433 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com