### U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS WASHINGTON, DC

IN THE MATTER OF: WORLDWIDE AIRCRAFT SERVICES, INC. Respondent Friday, Docket No. FAA2013-0045

Case No. 2009S0150216

February 28, 2014 Via Teleconference 1



### The above-entitled matter came on, pursuant to notice, at 2:00p.m., Eastern Time. BEFORE:

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### THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge

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### APPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: MR. WILLIAM P. VINES, ESQ. Federal Aviation Administration Office of the Regional Counsel P.O. Box 20636 Atlanta, GA 30320 (404) 305-5200 (404) 305-5223 (fax) On Behalf of the Respondent: MR. PAUL BOWEN, ESQ. Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc. c/o JET I.C.U. 2561 Rescue Way Brooksville, FL 34604 (352) 796-2540 (352) 796-2549 (fax) Also Present: IRENE NEMESIO, Law Student Intern ANDY P. ORR, Law Student Intern CODY L. SMITH, DOT Staff Attorney

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### P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 

### (2:05p.m.) 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: We' re on the record 4 in the matter of Worldwide Aircraft Services, 5 

### Inc. This is Docket Number FAA-2013-0045. 6 

### Today is Friday, February 28th, 2014. The 7 parties have convened for a short set motion 8 

### conference. The motions that will be 9 addressed today have both been filed by the 10 respondent, and I'll be identifying them in 11 just a moment. 12 The FederalAviationAdministration, 13 which I'll herein after refer to by its 14 initials FAA, is represented by its attorney 15 of record, William P. Vines. The respondent, 16 Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc., has been 17 represented by its president, Michael A. 18 Honeycutt, a lay representative for the 19 

### company. Mr. Honeycutt is not present, but 20 appearing on the telephone today is a Mr. Paul 21 Bowen, an attorney who is a friend of Mr. 22 Honeycutt, who has offered to appear as amicus

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### 1 on his behalf today. And we'll address that 2 in just a moment. 3 

### Also present at the Office of 4 Hearings sitting in as observers only are Mr. 5 Cody L. Smith, an attorney with the Office; 6 Mr. Andy P. Orr, a law student intern; and Ms. 7 

### Irene Nemesio, a law student intern. Good 8 afternoon to you all. 9 

### MR. BOWEN: Good afternoon. 10 MR. VINES: Good afternoon. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't I 12 do this first? I'll simply note the history 13 

### of this case to date. In essence, we had on 14 February 4, 2014 an order granting/denying 15 relief filed. And then we had, on February 16 11, 2014, a notice of amended complaint filed 17 by the FAA. 18 Shortly thereafter, on February 21, 19 2014, which was last Friday, Mr. Honeycutt, on 20 behalf of the respondent, filed two motions. 21 One was an objection to and motion to strike 22 the amendment of the complaint and memorandum

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### 1 of law, and the second was respondent'smotion 2 to exclude certain witnesses specified in the 3 complaint's witness and amended witness list 4 and memorandum of law. 5 So our first order of business is to 6 decide whether or not Mr. Bowen should appear 7 and be allowed to speak on behalf of the 8 respondents in Mr. Honeycutt'splace and speak 9 in a capacity as amicus only for this motion 10 conference. Mr. Vines, I turn to you. Do you 11 have any objection to that? 12 MR. VINES: No, Judge. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. There being 14 no objection, Mr. Bowen, I will ask you to 15 advise me where you are located and just to 16 affirm that you have had recent contact with 17 Mr. Honeycutt and that he has requested your 18 

### participation and assistance. Can you 19 identify that for us, please? 20 

### MR. BOWEN: Sure. Paul Bowen. And 21 I am at 35111 U.S. Highway 19 North, Suite 22 101, in Palm Harbor, Florida. And that's

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### 1 about 40 miles outside of Brooksville where 2 the airport facility is there. And I 

### have, I 3 

### am involved in other things with Mr. 4 Honeycutt. Mr. Honeycutt is ln Brazil. He is 5 unable to leave at the moment, and he cannot 6 call in from the place that he is at. 7 So I got a relaymessage email from 8 the office indicating this and asking if I 9 would go ahead and sit in for that. I replied 10 to him that I would do so for this particular 11 hearing only, and I got the message back that 12 indicated that that was okay. And that's 13 through an email. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### And when did you 15 last correspond in that fashion with Mr. 16 Honeycutt and/or his staff? 17 

### MR. BOWEN: About 15 minutes ago. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### Okay. Thank you. 19 Mr. Bowen, have you had a chance to review the 20 FAA's 

### amended complaint and/or the 21 respondent's two motions that are before the 22 Court today?

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### 1 MR. BOWEN: Yes. The one that I was 2 mostly asked to deal with first would be the 3 one that deals with the witnesses. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, we're 5 going to do this with the amended complaint 6 first since that was filed prior to the 7 motion. 8 

### MR. BOWEN: Okay. I didn't know 9 that. 10 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, we're going to 11 do all of it today. I will simply note that, 12 typically, in these kinds of cases, an 13 amendment of a pleading can be done as a 14 matter of right if the amended pleading or 15 complaint is filed 15 days or more before the 16 

### hearing. And this is under 14 CFR Section 17 13.214. 18 19 20 

### 21 22 MR. BOWEN: Yes, I read that. I read that because I think that that was referenced in Mr. Vines' letter to Mr. Honeycutt when he amended that. It's just the question of

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### that this is what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

### Mike had

www.nealrgross.com8 1 indicated to me lS that the allegations are 2 material to the complaint and that, since it's 3 so short of a period of time, that it 4 prejudices him because he doesn't have the 5 ability to react to any of those new 6 allegations because discovery is over. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. And I've 8 looked through the notice of amended complaint 9 and as I was reading the motion to strike the 10 amended complaint, and I'm wondering, Mr. 11 Bowen, if you could identify any prejudice 12 based on the amendments that were provided by 13 the FAA since they appear to be almost 14 correction of clerical errors 15 

### MR. BOWEN: Okay. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN:

-- as opposed to 17 any kind of substantial change ln the 18 complaint. And I essentially am looking at 19 the respondent's objection and motion to 20 strike where he says that, where he, being Mr. 21 Honeycutt, says that number three on page one 22 of the

(202) 234-4433 objection, "The amendment was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9 1 prejudicial. The complaint now adds several 2 allegationsthat would change the respondent's 3 strategy and add witnesses to the case.n 4 On page two of the objection, in 5 paragraph eight, Mr. Honeycutt alleges that 6 the amendment has severely prejudiced the 7 respondent. And I'm somewhatmystified, quite 8 frankly, by these arguments when the amendment 9 appears to simply correct a date in paragraph 10 one of the complaint from February 18, 2013 to 11 February 19, 2013 and correctly identify who 12 received Mr. Honeycutt's request for a 13 complaint. 14 MR. BOWEN: Okay. Your Honor

-- 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I won't go into the 16 rest, but it appears that there was just a 17 clerical correction of which paragraph should 18 have been referenced in paragraph eight and 19 ten of the complaint. So I'm a little unclear 20 as to what the new allegations are and how 21 22 severe prejudice attaches. Could you MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, what I have,

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com10 1 I mean, I understand your position, your 2 Honor. If you feel that if there's no 3 prejudice, I can't argue that right now. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, it's not my - 5

- let me finish. I guess I'm not saying I 6 have a position. I'm just a bit mystified 7 because I can't see where the prejudice is, so 8 I want to give you an opportunityto enlighten 9 me. 10 MR. BOWEN: Yes. And I'm unable to 11 do so at this moment. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't I 13 turn to Mr. Vines. And, Mr. Vines, you've 14 received this motion. Do you take a position 15 about this objection and motion to strike? 16 MR. VINES: Judge, I believe it's 17 without merits, and I do agree with your 18 position that it is just a change of clerical 19 errors, two or three clerical errors. And by 20 that, it is not material, which does not make 21 it prejudicial. 22 Finally, Judge, I would argue that

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com11 1 the regulations allow the agency to make those 2 changes if those changes are done prior to 15 3 days before the date of the hearing. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Bowen, 5 on behalf of Mr. Honeycutt and the respondent, 6 do you have anything else that you would like 7 to say or that you thought about saying since 8 we last spoke a few moments ago? 9 MR. BOWEN: No, your Honor. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What I'm 11 going to do is I'm going to clarify again I 12 don't have a position until I make a ruling. 13 I do often have questions, though, and I thank 14 the parties for answering them. I will agree 15 with Mr. Vines that this particular motion to 16 strike the amendment of the complaint is 17 without merit. 18 First and foremost, 14 CFR Section 19 13.214 allows for this type of amendment 15 20 days or more before the hearing. This 21 particular amended complaint was filed on 22 February 11,

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### 12 1 calculationof the calendar, that means it was 2 filed 21 days before the hearing. As such, it 3 

### is an amendment that is done as a matter of 4 

### right. 5 

### The same regulation allows a 6 

### respondent a reasonable time for a response to 7 

### any amended complaint that's done by right. 8 

### I think Mr. Honeycutt has perfected his 9 

### ability to respond and object. I do not 10 

### believe, however, that his objections are 11 

### meritorious. And I will simply note his 12 objection and deny the motion to strike at 13 

### this time. The changes are allowed. 14 I 

### will also note that Mr. 15 Honeycutt's arguments that these amendments 16 were prejudicial and that they added several 17 allegationsthat are material to the complaint 18 

### are without merit and without support. So 19 thank you very much on that particularmotion. 20 Let's go then to the second motion. 21 And this is the respondent's motion to 22 exclude, and I'm just going to set this up so

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### 1 that we're all talking about the same thing. 2 On February 21, 2014, the respondent filed a 3 motion to exclude three FAA witnesses, those 4 witnesses being Michael Singleton, an FAA 5 safety inspector; Martha Farmer, an FAA 6 specialist; and DavidDunn, an FAA specialist. 7 

### And as I understand it, in looking 8 at Mr. Honeycutt'smaterials, he's allegingas 9 part of his motion to exclude that the failure 10 to properly disclose these witnesses, two of 11 whom he believes are experts that have not 12 been identified as such, to have severely 13 prejudiced the respondent to the point where 14 he does not, they, excuse me, do not have the 15 opportunity to be heard. 16 And let me see if there was anything 17 else I saw here. I don't think so. I'm going 18 to go back. I want to look at one more thing. 19 

### I'm sorry. I was looking at the 20 objectionto the amended complaint. There was 21 an alternate motion in the objection to the 22 amended complaint that moved to continue the

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### 14 1 

### trial. And I should note that, given the 2 Court's ruling on the respondent's objection 3 and motion to strike, that that ruling also 4 

### should include a ruling in which the 5 

### respondent's alternate motion to continue the 6 

### trial for that reason is denied. So my 7 apologies, folks, for not doing that sooner. 8 Then the motion to exclude certain witnesses, 9 it's my understanding that the motion was 10 focused specificallyon these three witnesses 11 previously identified and an assertion that 12 the respondent is severelyprejudicedif their 13 testimony were allowed. 14 So, Mr. Vines, I'm going to start 15 with you. You've received, I hope, a copy of 16 the motion to exclude. Have you received it? 17 

### MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have 19 any -- I know that you didn't have a chance, 20 much of a chance to receive it. When did you 21 recelve it? 22 MR. VINES: Judge, we did receive,

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### 15 l my office did receive this motion on February 2 25th, so I have had sufficient time to review 3 the motion. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So you 5 received it Tuesday of this week. And I had 6 issued an order earlier this week indicating 7 

### that if you didn't have time to file a written 8 response that I would be happy to entertain 9 your oral response today. So did you file a 10 written response? Because if you did, I don't 11 have it. 12 MR. VINES: No, Judge, I did not. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then why 14 don't you take five or ten minutes, if you 15 need it, and tell us what your response is to 16 this motion? 17 

### MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I'll start 18 with the witness, Michael Singleton, that the 19 agency includedon its February lOth exchange, 20 that the complainant included on its list of 21 witnesses and exchange of exhibits notice to 22 the court.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com16 1 First of all, Mr. Singleton was not 2 recognized by the agency as a potential 3 witness in the Federal Rules of Civil 4 Procedure 26 disclosure. That was because it 5 was not the agency's intent at the time to use 6 Mr. Singleton. However, due to recent 7 circumstances, the agency has decided to use 8 Mr. Singleton. 9 I want to also point out that the 10 testimonyexpectedby, that the agency expects 11 to elicit from Mr. Singleton as an expert is 12 the same information, the same testimony that 13 the agency intends to elicit from Frank 14 Schaefer, who was listed as a potential 15 witness in the agency's Federal Rules of Civil 16 Procedure 26 notice, as well as on the 17 agency's list of witness and exchange of 18 exhibit notice. It's the same testimony 19 listed by, excuse me, it's the same testimony 20 that the agency expects to elicit from Mr. 21 Singleton is the same that's listed on that 22 exchange of exhibit notice for Frank Schaefer.

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### 17 1 

### So I would argue that the, that the 2 respondent, rather, is not prejudice. I would 3 

### also point out that this particular 4 information, testimony that's expected to be 5 

### elicited from Mr. Singleton is, as the 6 

### complainantpointedout in paragraph 17 of his 7 

### motion to strike, that this issue has been 8 

### raised in the, it was raised in the complaint. 9 

### And as a result, the respondent was on notice 10 

### that this may be an issue debated at the 11 hearing. 12 

### So for those reasons, Judge, the 13 

### respondent is not prejudicedand the motion to 14 

### exclude with regard to Mr. Singleton shouldbe 15 

### denied. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you a 17 question about that. Is Mr. Singleton 18 substituting in for Mr. Schaefer as an expert 19 witness on the evidence that Mr. Schaefer is 20 noted to be testifying to, or are you simply 21 

### adding him as a second witness on the same 22 type of material?

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### MR. VINES: It is my expectation 2 that the testimony of Mr. Singleton will 3 

### replace that of Mr. Schaefer. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So Mr. 5 

### Schaefer may not be coming to the court at 6 

### all? 7 

### MR. VINES: Correct. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 9 

### What about the witnesses you've identified as 10 

### Martha Farmer and David Dunn? 11 

### MR. VINES: Judge, those witnesses 12 

### have been designated by the agency as fact 13 

### witnesses with regard to the agency'spolicies 14 

### regarding civil penalties. At this point in 15 

### time, the agency is not anticipating 16 qualifyingthem as expert witnesses, which the 17 respondent has made the assumption of. 18 

### I will also admit that these two 19 witnesses were not included originally in the 20 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 26 21 

### disclosure. That's because the agency, at 22 that time, did not anticipate calling either

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### 19 1 of those witnesses for that reason. However, 2 as litigatorswouldunderstand, as you prepare 3 

### a case, certain acts come to light that they 4 

### need to be potentially elicited from 5 testimony. So, Judge, that is why the agency 6 listed Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn as potential 7 witnesses to discuss the agency's civil 8 penalty policy. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I note that 10 there was a phone ringing in the background. 11 If someone has more than one phone, I'd like 12 that phone to be either put on mute or 13 disconnected so that we don't have that 14 disruption for the rest of the hearing. 15 

### MR. BOWEN: Yes, I put it on do not 16 

### disturb. We're okay now. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 18 Mr. Vines, let me ask you this. And it may be 19 that I'm confusing this case with another. 20 But is this, is this a case, I've had several 21 cases recently that I've been hearing back to 22 back.

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### 20 1 

### or a series of admissions by the respondents 2 about not, about waiving affirmative defenses 3 

### on the financial portion of the case? 4 

### MR. VINES: That is correct, Judge. 5 

### But it is narrowed in that it is a, it was a 6 

### rulingby your Honor that the respondent could 7 

### not context their ability to pay -- 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So the 9 

### respondent is still in the position where it 10 

### can challenge the appropriateness of the 11 

### calculationsthemselves? Is that correct, Mr. 12 

### Vines? 13 

### MR. VINES: That is my 14 

### understanding, Judge. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Anything 16 

### else, Mr. Vines, that you would like to talk 17 

### about? 18 

### MR. VINES: One minute, Judge. In 19 

### paragraph 16, 

### Judge, the respondent argues 20 that they or the company would not have 21 

### sufficient time to meet the testimony, which 22 is what is presented or assumed as three

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com21 1 expert witnesses. I would argue that it would 2 be one expert witness, which would be Mr. 3 Singleton. 4 The respondent also goes on to say 5 he does not have the time to, does not have 6 the written reports necessaryto depose expert 7 witnesses. I would argue that I have included 8 a statement of anticipatedtestimonyregarding 9 their expert opinion, which they're on notice 10 of. 11 And as far as the respondent's claim 12 that they are unable to retain experts, I 13 can't proactively state what type of experts 14 the respondent would call. But in light of 15 the experts that I am calling or the expert 16 that I am calling, Mr. Singleton, who holds an 17 A&P certificate which is notated on his 18 resume, it is also my understanding that the 19 respondent has in their employ at least one, 20 if not more, individuals who hold a similar 21 certificate or the same certificate and, by 22 that reasoning, Judge, would have the ability

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### 22 1 

### to or did have the ability to list and name an 2 expert to rebut any possible testimony from an 3 

### agency employee which has been listed and 4 

### disclosed in this particular case. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In terms of 6 

### Martha Farmer and/or David Dunn, the FAA 7 

### witnesses who you want to call regarding the 8 

### civil penalties, have you, in your 9 

### disclosures, and I know that the whole issue 10 

### of discovery has been a source of recent 11 

### argument, provided or been asked to provide 12 any information about how the FAA reached its 13 

### civil penalty result? 14 

### MR. VINES: I have, the agency has 15 

### not received any request or any discovery 16 

### motions to

-- let me back up. The agency has 17 

### not receivedany request, whether orally or by 18 

### written request, from the respondent asking 19 

### how the agency formulated its proposed civil 20 

### penalty. 21 22 Bowen,

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### particular motion? And if you would be so 2 kind to start with Mr. Singleton in your 3 

### response, that would be helpful. 4 

### MR. BOWEN: First of all, I 

### know 5 

### that Mr. Honeycutt was interested in Mr. 6 

### Schaefer appearing at the hearing. And this 7 

### is the first time, I 

### think, that Worldwide has 8 

### found out that Mr. Schaefer will not be 9 

### appearing at the testimony, at the hearing. 10 

### Second, because he was, I 

### think, 11 

### involved in the investigationand the question 12 

### on the investigation is going to be important 13 

### in this case, from what I 

### understand. Mr. 14 

### Singleton, however, is also going to testify 15 

### to more than just that because

-- oh, no, I 16 

### take that back. Obviously, if Mr. Schaefer 17 

### appears, then Mr. Singlet= becomes 18 

### irrelevant. But Mr. Schaefer is certainly 19 different from Mr. Singleton because Mr. 20 Singletonwas not actually involved in this at 21 

### all. And that's important to my client. 22

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### 1 advantage to your client, at this point, to 2 have fewer people to testify to what he, 3 himself, could assert as true from personal 4 

### observation? Why would your client be 5 opposed, I mean, just out of curiosity, why 6 would your client be opposed to have fewer 7 witnesses from the FAA who have personal 8 knowledge about the events? 9 

### MR. BOWEN: Because the personal 10 knowledge only goes to the investigation 11 

### itself. In other words, I think that the 12 facts of the incident, I think, are pretty 13 much set out. I don't think my client really 14 has that much argument over the actual facts. 15 

### What the key question is is that 16 there are, as to some of the

-- I don't want 17 to reveal anything that, you know, goes to 18 the, I guess goes to the hearing itself, but 19 there is an issue that relates to the 20 investigationand that Mr. Singletonwouldnot 21 know. 22

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### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What about

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### 25 1 - let me ask you this, and I had indicated 2 this in my last order. And I'm not sure that 3 your friend, Mr. Honeycutt, read the order 4 with an eye to this particular piece of 5 information. 6 

### MR. BOWEN: Okay. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: On page six of the 8 eight-page order served February 4, 2014 that 9 is entitled "Order Granting/DenyingRelief," 10 there is a paragraphG, as in George, entitled 11 "Subpoenas for Witnesses." 12 MR. BOWEN: Correct. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And it indicates 14 that, although not mentioned at the previous 15 motion conference that had been held on 16 January 31, 2014, the parties were reminded, 17 essentially, that 14 CFR Section 13.227 18 limited and/or prohibited the ability of each 19 party to subpoena the employees of the other. 20 And I noticed in Mr. Honeycutt's witness list 21 that he filed shortly thereafter that he was 22 listing a variety of different people that

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com26 1 appeared to be employees of the FAA, 2 including, most prominently, on page one his 3 list of witnesses Mr. Schaefer. 4 

### MR. BOWEN: Correct. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm a little 6 concerned about that because Mr. Schaefer 7 who's listed on page one, Mr. Kahler who's 8 listed on page two, and Mr. Donahue who's 9 listed on page two, as well, are all FAA 10 employees who Mr. Honeycutt cannot subpoena or 11 compel to appear and testify on his behalf. 12 He certainlycan cross-examinethose witnesses 13 that the FAA chooses to present, but he cannot 14 compel the attendance of FAA witnesses o his 15 own. 16 So in your informal conversations 17 with Mr. Honeycutt, do you have any idea if he 18 is aware of that? 19 

### MR. BOWEN: I don't think he 20 attempted to subpoena them because he thought 21 that they were all going to appear and that he 22 would be able to cross-examine them. I never

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### 27 1 had a conversation with him about whether or 2 not he wanted to subpoena them or not. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 4 

### MR. BOWEN: I 

### don't think he's going 5 

### to call them on his own. But if somebody is 6 

### going to come in and testify, I 

### think he

7 

### wanted Mr. Schaefer to testify about the whole 8 

### thing, rather than somebody who is distinct, 9 

### especially because it cuts out the 10 investigation itself and some of the issues 11 that relates to that. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: According to your 13 client and the motion to strike or exclude, 14 excuse me, he indicates on page three in 15 paragraph 19 that he believes that the 16 question that is at the heart of the dispute 17 in this case, or at least one of the 18 

### questions, is the applicability of the 19 respondent's general operation manual and 20 also, in paragraph 17, an indication that the 21 issue of whether or not a receptacle was 22 damaged and whether or not the damage to the

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### 28 1 receptacle was a discrepancy is an issue. 2 So what is it about Mr. Singleton's 3 

### substituted testimony for Mr. Schaefer's 4 testimony that leads you to believe that Mr. 5 Singleton would have testimony that was any 6 different from Mr. Schaeferon the points that 7 are of issue to your client or, not your 8 client, excuse me, to Mr. Honeycutt and the 9 respondent? 10 

### MR. BOWEN: Well, I think it relates 11 to, without going into great detail, I believe 12 it relates to the investigation and Mr. 13 Fanning's testimonythat these are issues that 14 are not, that Mr. Singleton does not know 15 anything about but Mr. Schaefer does. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 17 

### MR. BOWEN: And that's critical as 18 

### to what is going on, you know, in the 19 testimony of Mr. Fanning, I guess. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's 21 assume, just for the sake of argument now, 22 that Mr. Honeycutt cannot subpoena an FAA

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-- 2 MR. BOWEN: Okay. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN:

-- and that the FAA 4 chooses, as its right, to call the witnesses 5 that it wishes amongst its employee pool. 6 What relief do you think the Court can grant 7 you if that's the case? 8 MR. BOWEN: Well, the answer is 9 either Mr. Schaefer appears or Mr. Schaefer 10 doesn't appear. If Mr. Schaefer doesn't 11 appear, that's okay, but I don't, I think Mr. 12 Honeycutt doesn't want somebody to come in and 13 testify in Mr. Schaefer's stead when the issue 14 was the investigation itself because that 15 would change the theory of his case that's 16 going to go on on Tuesday. And as a result of 17 changing the theory of his case, I think that 18 that creates some prejudice in him to go 19 forward, you know. 20 As to the remedy, it would be one of 21 two things: either we exclude Mr. Singleton 22 and if Mr. Schaefer shows up, okay, and if he

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### 1 doesn't, that's okay; or, number two, is you 2 can continue the case so that my client would 3 

### be able to evaluate now the situation if Mr. 4 

### Singleton doesn't show up and someone else 5 

### does. I mean, not Mr. Singleton. Mr. 6 Schaefer shows up and doesn't show up and 7 someone else does. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: What is it that you 9 believe Mr. Singletonmay be asked to testify 10 to that Mr. Schaefer would not have been

-- 11 

### MR. BOWEN: The investigation that 12 occurred and the statement made by Mr. 13 

### Fanning. It's facts surrounding that. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Can you be a little 15 more specific just for the purposes of this 16 argument today? 17 

### MR. BOWEN: We believe that there 18 was some improper conduct and that statements 19 were made and, as a result, the document was 20 signed and his statement was signed. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: His statement being 22 Mr. Honeycutt's statement or Mr. Fanning--

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### 31 1 

### MR. BOWEN: No, Mr. Fanning's 2 statement. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Wouldn't Mr. 4 Fanning himself be able to testify to that? 5 

### MR. BOWEN: Yes, your Honor. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: How is your client 7 

### excuse me. I'm sorry. How is Mr. 8 Honeycutt and the respondent prejudiced if 9 they still have a primary witness who can 10 testify to those events? 11 

### MR. BOWEN: Right. But what it does 12 is the testimony eliminates the ability to 13 cross-examine the FAA about the events that 14 occurred. With Mr. Singleton, he don't have 15 no knowledge of that. So then it occurs that, 16 if Mr. Schaefer does not show up, then, you 17 know, you've got one witness that's going to 18 say something and the credibility of Mr. 19 Schaefer is not tested by the hearing, at the 20 hearing. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So the allegation 22 essentially would be that Mr. Schaefer was

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### involved ln some improper statements or undue 2 pressure and the respondent wants to bring 3 that to the light 4 

### MR. BOWEN: Yes. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How is that 6 

### a 

### defense to the respondent's primary 7 

### obligation in terms of the allegations of 8 

### safety regulations being violated? 9 

### MR. BOWEN: Because I think that 10 

### they're relying on Mr. Fanning's statement as 11 

### to what, as to certain things that occurred. 12 

### And that statement occurred based on 13 representations made by Mr. Schaefer. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And just in 15 terms of one or two more questions on this 16 point, let's assume that Mr. Schaefer did 17 

### appear and was available for cross18 

### examination, what guarantee does the 19 respondent have that he would answer the 20 cross-examination questions in a way that 21 

### satisfied the respondent or that was, that 22 reflected the respondent's perception of what

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com33 1 had happened? 2 MR. BOWEN: Well, I understand what 3 you're saying, your Honor, but my client 4 wanted the chance. Now, don't forget, also, 5 is this is the first time we heard that Mr. 6 Schaefer was not going or I'm assuming is not 7 going to show up because if Mr. Schaefer is 8 not going to show up, if Mr. Schaefer shows 9 up, then it becomes just duplicative 10 testimony. So I'm assuming that Mr. Schaefer 11 is not going to showup. And if Mr. Schaefer 12 is not going to show up, I think that the 13 prejudice becomes less. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, all right. 15 Let's talk now about Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn. 16 What's the respondent's position about those 17 two witnesses? 18 MR. BOWEN: Well, I mean, you know, 19 to say-- essentially, it's the same thing and 20 that this is the first time we've heard of 21 them coming in. And I believe that if there's 22 a written report or something that indicates

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### 1 how these calculations were made, that that 2 report

-- that written report

-- should have 3 been delivered to my client at the time. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: In the respondent's 5 witness list, which I have before me, there 6 are, ln addition to the three FAA employees, 7 seven other people listed as potential 8 respondent witnesses, starting with paragraph 9 four identifying Lisa Aleski. That's A as in 10 apple, L as in lamb, E as in egg, S as in Sam, 11 K as in kitty, I as in igloo. And moving into 12 the next page and ending with Kurt Handing. 13 Kurt spelled with a U, Handing, H-A, N as in 14 Nancy, D as in dog, I-N-G. 15 Are any of these individuals who are 16 listedpeople who were being called to testify 17 about financial matters, in terms of the 18 proposed civil penalty, to your knowledge? 19 

### MR. BOWEN: No, I don't think so. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What, if 21 any, materials that are in the exhibit list 22 can you point to that the respondent was

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### 1 planningto introduceto challenge the alleged 2 civil penalty as proposed? 3 

### MR. BOWEN: I can't do that right 4 

### now. I have not looked at that. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Other than 6 general cross-examination of any of the FAA 7 

### witnesses regarding the proposed civil 8 penalty, is there any other information you 9 have about the respondent's disadvantage that 10 you allege is occurring to have Ms. Farmer 11 and/or Mr. Dunn added to the FAA's prima facie 12 case list for discussing the proposed civil 13 penalty? 14 

### MR. BOWEN: Just the fact that if 15 they're going to testify, we don't know what 16 

### they're going to say. If we don't know what 17 they're going to say, I'm not sure how we can 18 provide witnesses that might reflect that. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I know that 20 you have not been formally involved in this 21 case in any way up until today, but I do have 22 a question and you may not be able to answer

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com36 1 it. Are you aware that there has been very 2 little, if any, discoveryrequest initiatedby 3 the respondent throughout the proceeding of 4 this case up until last month? 5 MR. BOWEN: From what I understand, 6 yes. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Now, given 8 that general awareness, how is it that the 9 respondent, in your opinion, is prejudicedany 10 differentlynow by finding out about these two 11 new witnesses, when the respondent essentially 12 waived its rights to engage in discovery and 13 find out about these things between the time 14 that the case was initially filed with this 15 office to the date that these two individuals 16 were named, which was I think on or about 17 February 11, 2014? 18 And I'll say this in a different 19 way. In essence, the respondent has conducted 20 no discovery to find out anything in this 21 case. And so this Court is somewhat 22 challengedin beingpersuadedthat somehow the

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com37 1 respondent suddenly is experiencing 2 substantial prejudice in finding out that 3 there are two more people to testify about a 4 proposed penalty amount that the respondent 5 knew about and has known about for over a year 6 and has conducted no discovery on. I mean, I 7 think you can kind of, hopefully 8 

### MR. BOWEN: Yes, I understand what 9 you're saying, Your Honor. The only problem 10 is that, you know, you handle a case one way 11 and handle a case a different way. I mean, if 12 they're not disclosed, then my client is 13 sitting here thinking that they're not going 14 to come ln and testify about that, which 15 eliminatespossibly, in his mind, that there's 16 no need to go into that kind of investigation. 17 On the other hand, now, all of a 18 sudden, we now say, oh wait a second, now 19 we're going to go into this, you know, how 20 these things were calculated, and now he says, 21 okay, if I wanted to talk to these people, I'm 22 unable to do so because the discovery has now

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### gone by. And I think, generally speaking, 2 what that does is put him in a disadvantage 3 because he built his case around what he 4 thought the witnesses were going to be. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 6 

### MR. BOWEN: I guess what you're 7 saying, your Honor, is that my client should 8 have anticipated that the FAA was wrong in 9 disclosing its witnesses and that he should 10 have known that these witnesses would be 11 

### coming in to testify. And I don't think 12 that's true. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let me ask 14 you this. The witness lists were provided by 15 the FAA on February 11, 2014. 16 

### MR. BOWEN: Correct. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Honeycutt does 18 not file an objection or a motion until ten 19 days later, on February 21, 2014, and then is 20 not available up until through this date for 21 discussion and any other alternate relief, 22 short of excluding or continuing, which is a

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### 39 1 concern to this Court. 2 Typically, what the Court tries to 3 do is to cure the problem, if at all possible, 4 without going to either the extreme remedy of 5 excluding testimony or the extreme remedy of 6 

### continuance. And given the timing of Mr. 7 Honeycutt's motion and objection and then his 8 unavailability to appear and discuss it this 9 

### week, it seems it seems unfortunate, at 10 best, that the time has become so critical 11 because, as I look at my calendar, the only 12 day potentially to cure this, short of the 13 remedies that you want or the remedies 14 suggested by the FAA, 

### is to do something on 15 Monday, the 24th, 2014. And I'm wondering if 16 you have any recommendationsor response about 17 that concern. 18 

### MR. BOWEN: Well, I mean, I don't 19 know if Mr. Vines had talked to or tried to 20 reach Mr. Honeycutt. I do know that, you 21 know, that the nature of my client's business 22 is when somebody is injured, let's say in

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com40 1 Brazil, and needs immediate medical attention 2 in the United States, that he gets called. 3 And if he doesn't respond, that's going to 4 impact his future business. So that's why 5 he's not here today to call in, and that was 6 an unforeseen situation because of the 7 Brazilians. 8 But, in any case, the bottom line is 9 is that we are prepared to discuss other 10 methods to get this thing remedied. I mean, 11 I don't know what other things could be done 12 to remedy this. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. And let 14 me ask you, just to expand a little bit about 15 Mr. Honeycutt's absence. I was advised 16 throughmy staff that he was not available for 17 the conference yesterday-- 18 MR. BOWEN: Correct. He was on his 19 way down, he was on his way down to Brazil 20 because he had just got a call that said that 21 they need him. And he is the only pilot at 22 the moment because his other pilot is, I

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com41 1 think, gettinghis checkride done here shortly 2 or has done it but hasn't received his 3 currency. But I may be using the wrong terms. 4 But in any case, you know, the one 5 today, he was fully aware of this and was 6 fully prepared to attend by telephone on 7 Friday at 2:00. That I had verified with him, 8 I guess it was Wednesday. Like, at 1:00, I 9 get a frantic call from the office indicating 10 that he is unable to leave Brazil and is 11 unable to call from Brazil, and so that there 12 is a major problem and that's why we are where 13 we are. I mean, he's not trying to evade or 14 not appear. That's not his style. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I don't know 16 very much about Mr. Honeycutt or his company, 17 so from what I gather from what you're saying, 18 he is a pilot in a company that responds to 19 calls outside of the United States for 20 airplane assistance; is that what you're 21 saying to me? 22 MR. BOWEN: No, your Honor.

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### 42 1 apologize. I should have probably said this 2 

### before. My client is an air ambulance, you 3 

### know, Worldwide is an air ambulance. They 4 

### have, like, three or four airplanes. They 5 have several pilots. However, the FAA has not 6 provided a pilot down here, an inspector, I 7 guess, that comes in that can check out these 8 two pilots on this type of aircraft. So these 9 people had to go to a different area to get 10 

### checked out. Thus, the only pilot who was 11 current to be able to fly was Mr. Honeycutt. 12 And what happens in his business is 13 that a hospital or a family or somebody gets 14 ahold of him and says they've got somebody 15 who's seriously injured in Brazil and, as a 16 result, they need to transport that person 17 from Brazil, after they stabilize him in 18 Brazil, transport him back to the United 19 States to a certain medical facility. So he 20 flies down to Brazil with a nurse and a doctor 21 or whatever personnel he needs. The airplane 22 is equipped for all types of emergencies and

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### 1 all types of injuries. 2 Anyway, they go down. They pick up 3 the hospital, bring somebodyover by ambulance 4 to put into the aircraft. The nurse and the 5 doctor stay with the patient. He flies them 6 back to the designated airport near the other 7 medical facility, and then that medical 8 facility transports them back to the hospital. 9 As a result, you know, he's got to 10 have certain clearances-- and I really don't 11 understand all of what happened in Brazil. 12 But in any case, what I understand is he is 13 

### unable to leave Brazil at this moment. I 

### 14 don't know if it's because of the patient, I 15 don't know if it's because of the airplane, I 16 don't know if it's because of the Brazilian 17 government. But he is unable to do so. But 18 the airport that he's at, you know, he is 19 

### unable to make the phone call that's 20 necessary. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 22 That'sveryhelpful. Mr. Vines, I'mgoingto

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### 44 1 turn back to you, and I'm going to ask you a 2 couple of questions about Ms. Farmer and Mr. 3 

### Dunn. Before I do that, though, would you 4 like to make a general response to what Mr. 5 Bowen has said on behalf of his friend, Mr. 6 Honeycutt, and the respondent? 7 MR. VINES: 

### Judge, other than I 8 understand that emergencies do occur, things 9 do arise at the last minute. But in addition 10 to Mr. Honeycutt operating his company, he 11 does have ancillary matters to attend to. 12 This is one of them. Yesterday, I did receive 13 a call from Mr. Bowen who asked that I agree 14 to move this hearing

-- conference, rather

-- 15 

### back. I agreed to that request. 16 

### But as far as the possibility of 17 moving or reconveningagain at a later date to 18 discuss the same matter, I would object to 19 that as a possible remedy in that I am 20 finishing up my witness prep, case prep, for 21 the hearing next Wednesday. I'll be doing 22 that the rest of today and Monday and, of

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### 1 course, Tuesday is not going to be, is not 2 available to me as a prep day as I'll be 3 traveling to the hearing location. 4 

### So that's really, in a nutshell, all 5 

### I have as a response to Mr. Bowen's argument. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me ask 7 

### you a couple of questions because I think you 8 

### may have misunderstood some of my dialogue 9 

### with Mr. Bowen. Currently, the respondent is 10 moving to exclude witnesses and the 11 respondent, in oral argument, has suggested 12 that a second alternative relief would be to 13 continue the case as a whole. 14 In my dialogue with Mr. Bowen, I was 15 saying that, typically, the Court tries to 16 look for less drastic options to try and cure 17 rnat ters which may have resulted in some 18 inequity to a party. So, for example, in your 19 February 11, 2014 amended or supplemental 20 witness list, you identified Ms. Farmer and 21 Mr. Dunn for the first time. 22

(202) 234·4433 

### MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com46 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I was saying to Mr. 2 Bowen, why didn't we hear about this earlier 3 than February 21, 2014 so that the Court could 4 have entertained alternate, less drastic 5 solutions if it finds merit to the objection? 6 And alternate less drastic solutions could 7 include but are not limited to disclosing some 8 information about Mr. Dunn and Ms. Farmer's 9 testimony, disclosing some type of written 10 report, if any exists, about their 11 calculations of the civil penalty, exchanging 12 information about various regulations that 13 might relate to how civil penalties are 14 calculated, and so forth, so that the hearing 15 could go forward with both parties fully 16 apprised and ready to inquire. 17 And what I'm hearing from Mr. Bowen 18 is that Mr. Honeycutt filed on the 21st, 2014, 19 his objection and motion and then simply has 20 not been available because of some emergent 21 medical problems involved in his business 22 dealings up until and through today. My

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com47 1 discussionwith Mr. Bowen then involved, well, 2 what can we do that's potentiallyavailable to 3 the parties in the few days or one day that we 4 have remaining, which, as I look at the 5 calendar, is not February 24th because I'm 6 looking at this week instead of next, but 7 would be Monday, March 3rd, 2014, which is the 8 day before anyone has to travel to the Tampa, 9 Florida location for the Wednesday, March 5th, 10 2014 first day of hearing. 11 What in your exhibits and materials, 12 Mr. Vines, do you have that might go to a 13 discussion of how the civil penalty was 14 calculated? 15 MR. VINES: Very simple, Judge. The 16 anticipated testimony from Mr. Dunn or Ms. 17 Farmer would come from two of the 18 complainant'sexhibits, and those exhibits are 19 marked as -- those exhibits are marked as C-17 20 and C-18. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me take 22 a minute to take a look at those, please. And

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### 1 C-17 appears to be a replica of a regulation; 2 is that correct? 3 MR. 

### VINES: Judge, this wouldbe an 4 excerpt from the FAA Order 2150.3B, Appendix 5 B. 

### It's the agency's table of sanctions. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what part, if 7 any, can be pointed to as relevant to the 8 

### sanction that was proposed by the FAA in this 9 

### case? Because C-17 appears to be quite 10 lengthy. 11 MR. 

### VINES: Fair question, Judge. 12 It would be part one, the applicability 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And let's 14 MR. 

### VINES: I'm sorry. Go ahead. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, if you could 16 walk me to the page that's part one. Is part 17 one on page one, or is it on a different page? 18 MR. 

### VINES: Part one would be on the 19 first page, and if you'll notice that, Judge, 20 the excerpt was reduced to four pages, reduced 21 to one page. So you'll notice on the very 22 first page of Exhibit C-17, there's B1, B2,

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### 1 B3, and B4. 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 3 

### MR. VINES: Those would be page 4 numbers. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 6 

### MR. VINES: And I 

### will be 7 referencing, obviously, B1, page B1, B3. 8 

### MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, I don't have 9 

### that. Was this provided to Mr. Honeycutt? 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, it was 11 

### provided on February 11, 2014. And if you 12 don't have it, Mr. Bowen, may I recommend that 13 you take some notes. 14 MR. BOWEN: I am. I mean, I got his 15 witness and exhibit list, but were the actual 16 exhibits attached? 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Vines, did you 18 also send the actual exhibits? 19 

### 20 21 22

(202) 234·4433 

### MR. BOWEN: Yes. Yes, Judge. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, they were. MR. BOWEN: Sorry. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you for the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 50 1 clarification. 2 

### MR. VINES: Again, page B3 as well 3 as B4. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 5 

### MR. VINES: And then if you continue 6 

### on, there's certain figures addressing 7 

### different types of violations. And bear with 8 me as I gather information here. 9 

### MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, while he's 10 doing that, is there I have 2150.3B in 11 front of me here. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 13 MR. BOWEN: But my 2150.3B indicates 14 that, like, it's got B3B, B3C. And he's 15 saying B1, B3, B4. Could he be a little more 16 specific as to which part of the Bs? 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I think Mr. Vines 18 is referring to the page number that's

-- 19 

### MR. BOWEN: Oh, oh, yes, so I can't 20 there's no way it corresponds. Okay. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I think that, 22 as we're talking, this gives me an idea of

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### R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com51 1 what remedy I might be able to provide. But 2 I'm going to give Mr. Vines just another 3 moment to see if he can focus in on the 4 remaining pages in Exhibit C-17 before we go 5 to Exhibit C-18. 6 Mr. Vines, do you think you can come 7 up with that or can I move on to Exhibit C-18 8 at this point? 9 MR. VINES: If you want to move on, 10 Judge, I can come back to this. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, great. In 12 looking at Exhibit C-18, which you also 13 referenced, this appears to also be part of 14 the published regulations. Please explain it 15 just in case I may be mistaken. 16 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. This, 17 again, is an excerpt from FAA Order 2150. 3B, 18 as in boy. This is Chapter 7, and this 19 chapter sets forth the general sanction 20 guidelines or guidancepolicies with regard to 21 how the FAA assesses a penalty. 22

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### 1 understand it

-- you may correct me if I'm 2 wrong -- both Exhibit C-17 and Exhibit C-18 3 are excerpts from publications that are 4 available to the public? 5 

### MR. VINES: That is correct. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Would you, Mr. 7 Vines, be able to provide a short summary 8 statement of what pages in Exhibit C-17 and 9 Exhibit C-18 are directly applicable to the 10 witness testimonythat you plan to elicit from 11 Mr. Dunn and Ms. Farmer? 12 

### MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: How quickly can you 14 put something like that together and send it 15 over to the respondent? 16 

### MR. VINES: I likely can do that 17 it's 3:00. I can likely do that today. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And when you 19 say today, can you do that by 5:00p.m. today? 20 21 22 

### MR. VINES: It depends on how long

we go, Judge. I'll do my best.

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### JUDGE SULLIVAN: If we end fairly NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com53 

### 1 soon, would that give you enough time? 2 MR. VINES: I think so, Judge. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Bowen, 4 what I'm going to do is this. I am going to 5 direct Mr. Vines to provide some clarification 6 statement and explanatory summary of how 7 Exhibit C-17 and Exhibit C-18 will be utilized 8 and relied upon by Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn in 9 their testimony about how the FAA's proposed 10 civil penalty is calculated. 11 

### MR. BOWEN: Okay. 12 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am going to 13 direct him to provide that to the respondent 14 with a courtesy copy to you no later than 6 15 p.m. today, in case he needs a little extra 16 time. And I'm going to provide that as what 17 I think to be the curative remedy to the 18 surprise that Mr. Honeycutthas experiencedin 19 seeing these two new witnesses. 20 

### MR. BOWEN: Okay. 21 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: The reason that I 22 think that this is going to be curative is

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com54 1 this: number one, the notice of complaint has 2 been available to Mr. Honeycutt since it was 3 filed, which was on or about February 20, 4 2013. And in that notice of complaint, there 5 was a clear and unequivocal statement that the 6 FAA was seeking a civil penalty of $12,375 in 7 this case. That civil penalty has not 8 changed, despite the fact of the recently9 filed amended complaint. The respondent has 10 been on notice for over a year that the FAA 11 was going to seek a civil penalty and what the 12 amount was. 13 The respondent has expressed 14 surprise at the fact that the FAA has a strong 15 interest in having witnesses come to talk 16 about the civil penalty. I would suggest that 17 this respondent's surprise is exaggerated to 18 that degree. The respondent should have 19 always anticipated that the FAA would present 20 witnesses on such a matter, since it's part 21 and parcel and an integral part of the FAA's 22 prima facie case.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL

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### 55 1 

### In addition, the way that the FAA 2 calculates proposed civil penalties is 3 

### published and available to the public, 4 irrespective of whether or not the FAA 5 responds to discovery requests, irrespective 6 of whether or not the respondent asked the FAA 7 

### for that information. It would have been 8 

### helpful in this case, I think, if Mr. 9 

### Honeycutt, as the representative of his 10 

### company, had engaged in discovery. He 11 

### obviously didn't, and there were consequences 12 

### of some extent of that. 13 

### But the proposed civil penalties do 14 

### have kind of a structured schedule of how they 15 

### are calculated. There is some discretion and 16 

### some range in the calculation, but that 17 discretion and range is discussed and 18 available for public review in the materials 19 that have been included, at least in part, as 20 Exhibits C-17 and C-18. 21 

### So I'm going to direct Mr. Vines to 22 provide a brief explanation so that a

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### 1 layperson can understand it as best he can 2 before the close of 6 

### p.m. business today so 3 

### that Mr. Honeycutt has an opportunityover the 4 

### weekend to take a look at it. I will also 5 

### make the witnesses, Mr. Dunn and Ms. Farmer, 6 

### available to Mr. Honeycutt during the two days 7 

### of hearing for a brief private interview if he 8 

### has other questions he'd like to ask them off 9 

### the record before their testimony is 10 

### presented. 11 

### In addition, if 

### there is a 

### 12 perception or a belief by Mr. Honeycutt that 13 he has someone else that he thinks could serve 14 his interest in terms of rebutting their 15 testimony, I would certainly entertain a 16 motion before the close of the trial for him 17 to add a witness to his own witness list who 18 could address those matters and/or to address 19 the matter after the parties leave the Tampa 20 courtroom by some other alternate means. 21 It may be that Mr. Honeycutt will 22 find, that once he reads this material with

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com57 1 Mr. Vines' supplemental statement, that it 2 will become much more clear. It may also be 3 that after Mr. Honeycutt has a chance to talk 4 to Mr. Dunn and/or Ms. Farmer that he will see 5 that the parameters of the penalty calculation 6 are fairly structured and he'll know where to 7 pose his questions accordingly. 8 I cannot find, at this point, that 9 he is so severely prejudiced that the extreme 10 remedy of either excluding these witnesses or 11 continuing the trial is warranted. I think 12 the cure right now is to provide him some more 13 information so that he can look at C-17 and 

## c14 18 with a more educated eye and also to give 15 him some access, and it will be limited 16 access, probably one hour or less, to the 17 witnesses before they are called to testify on 18 the record. 19 In addition, as I note, I will also 20 reserve Mr. Honeycutt's ability to move for 21 additional relief and/or to keep his case open 22 for the presentationof an additional witness,

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com58 1 either ln Tampa, Florida or by some other 2 means before he has to close his responsive 3 case. 4 With that, on behalf of the FAA, Mr. 5 Vines, do you have anything else that we can 6 address for your client today? 7 MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. I don't 8 know if you made the ruling as to it 9 appears as if you made a ruling with regard to 10 the three witnesses that were requested to be 11 stricken by the respondent

-- 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Oh, I'm sorry, I 13 didn't address Mr. Singleton. Thank you for 14 mentioningthat. I will respectfullydeny the 15 respondent's motion to exclude Mr. Singleton 16 with the adoption and confirmation of the 17 FAA's statement that Mr. Singleton will not 18 testify to any matter that would be different 19 from what has already been disclosed as Mr. 20 Schaefer's anticipated testimony. 21 Obviously, the FAA has asserted that 22 Mr. Singleton is subbing in for Mr. Schaefer,

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### 1 who will not be called as a witness, and that 2 Mr. Singleton is not being brought in now for 3 testimony on either any new or non-disclosed 4 

### matters. I don't find the persuasive the 5 

### respondent's statement that Mr. Schaefer 6 

### needs to be at the hearing. The respondent 7 doesn't have the ability to choose for the FAA 8 which witnesses it will call to a hearing. 9 I understand the respondent has been 10 anticipating cross-examiningMr. Schaefer. I 11 appreciate that, but hearings and trials do 12 have changes that occur both long before the 13 trial and shortly before the trial, and 14 

### sometimes even during the trial itself. It 

### 15 does not appear to me that this substantially 16 changes the respondent's case in chief in 17 

### response to the FAA's case. In fact, the 18 respondent is relieved of the work of cross 19 examining a witness about a contested issue. 20 It sounds to me that the respondent doesn't 21 have the ability to present testimony about a 22 matter without the FAA witness who was present

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### 1 at the time to rebut any such testimony, which 2 might be deemed an advantage. 3 

### In any event, the fact that a 4 witness may have felt compelled to respond in 5 a certain way can still be addressed by the 6 respondent in its own responsive case quite 7 adequately, in this Court's opinion. And so 8 Mr. Singleton'spresencedoesn'tprejudiceit, 9 and it appears to be an appropriate choice in 10 terms of the FAA trying to address its own 11 witness problems. 12 So respondent's motion to exclude 13 

### Mr. Singleton is denied. The respondent's 14 motion to exclude Ms. Farmer and Mr. Dunn are 15 

### denied. But the respondent's request for 16 relief is granted, to the extent that the 17 relief is as identified by the Court a few 18 minutes ago in its oral ruling. 19 Mr. Vines, I'm going to turn to you 20 again. Thank you very much for the reminder. 21 Anything else that we need to address for you 22 on behalf of your client today?

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### 61 1 

### MR. VINES: 

### Yes, Judge. I want to 2 seek clarification from you as to your 3 

### interpretation of 14 CFR Section 13.227. I 4 

### respectfully disagree with your 5 interpretation, Judge, and like to bring my 6 position to your attention and have you, 7 again, either agree, confirm your earlier 8 position or perhaps maybe adopt mine. 9 As I read the regulation, it says an 10 employee of the agency may not be called as an 11 expert or opinion witness for any other party 12 other than the FAA in any proceeding governed 13 by the subpart

. Also, an employee of a 14 respondent may not be called by an agency 15 attorney as an expert or opinion witness for 16 the FAA in any proceeding governed by the 17 subparts to which the respondent is a party. 18 

### Judge, I would agree that the 19 that, for instance, using the FAA as an 20 example, the FAA could not subpoena or call an 21 employee of the respondent to testify as an 22 expert or to provide opinion testimony.

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### 62 1 However, I disagree with your position that 2 the FAA cannot call any employee of the 3 

### respondent for purposes of fact testimony. 4 

### In this particular case, Judge, I 5 

### have subpoenaed Mr. Brian Fanning, who is an 6 

### employee of the respondent, to solicit fact 7 

### testimony from him. And because of that, 8 

### Judge, I would ask that you reconsider your 9 

### position as to the agency's ability to call a 10 respondent's employee for purposes of 11 soliciting fact testimony. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Vines, thank 13 you so very much for that clarification. 14 You're absolutely right, and I apologize if I 15 have misstated the scope of 14 CFR Section 16 

### 13.227. If you look at the order that I 17 

### issued on February 4, 2014, page six, 18 paragraph G, that was clearly within the 19 province of 14 CFR Section 13.227. It simply 20 indicated that the regulation limited and/or 21 prohibited the ability of each party to 22 subpoena the employees of the other. But in

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### 1 talking to both of you today, I apparently 2 revised the regulation to have a much broader 3 scope, and that was not correct. 4 

### So you're absolutely right, and I 5 apologize to both of you for that. Does that 6 help, Mr. Vines? 7 

### MR. VINES: Yes, Judge. Thank you. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're very 9 welcome. 10 

### MR. BOWEN: Your Honor, I did not 11 take your statement as to mean that he 12 couldn't subpoena Mr. Fanning. By the way, 13 Will, I contacted the office and they say he 14 has received the subpoena and he will be 15 there. 16 

### MR. VINES: Thank you. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say 18 you contacted the office, are you talking 19 about contacting Mr. Honeycutt's office and 20 their confirming that Mr. Fanning will be 21 present? 22

(202) 234·4433 

### MR. BOWEN: Yes. I'musingtoomany NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com64 

### 1 pronouns. You're absolutely right, Your 2 Honor. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Bowen, 4 is there anything else that you'd like to add 5 on behalf of your friend, Mr. Honeycutt, 6 today? 7 

### MR. BOWEN: No, your Honor. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I will 9 thank you both very much for your presence 10 today and for your help in resolving these 11 issues. It appears our business is complete. 12 I'll look forward to seeing you, Mr. Vines, 13 and Mr. Honeycutt in the Tampa, Florida 14 courthousenext Wednesday, March 5th, 2014 for 15 

### hearing. If the parties do settle prior to 16 that, please just let us know. 17 

### MR. BOWEN: May I ask just what's 18 the time that it starts? 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: The time of the 20 hearing usually begins right at 9 a.m., and 21 you want to be there early because you always 22 have to get through security first.

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### 65 1 

### MR. BOWEN: All right. I just want 2 to verify with Mike the time and the place. 3 Thank you. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I would recommend 5 that he be in the courtroom by 8:45 at the 6 latest. 7 

### MR. BOWEN: Okay. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 9 

### MR. BOWEN: Thank you very much. 10 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. We can 11 go off the record, and I wish you all a good 12 day. 13 

### MR. VINES: Thank you. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right. Bye15 bye. 16 (Whereupon, the foregoingmatter was 17 concluded at 3:24p.m.) 18 19 20 

### 21 22

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Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 7576 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Worldwide Aircraft Services, Inc.

Before: 

### us DOT

Date: Friday, February 28, 2014

Place: via teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202)234-4433 Court Reporter

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE

.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com