Office of Infrastructure Protection

National Protection and Programs Directorate

U.S. Department of Homeland Security 

Washington, DC 20528

CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI-TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

LISTENING SESSION HELD IN HOUSTON, TX ON

SEPTEMBER 9, 2014

CONTENTS:

Agenda

Transcript
Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards

Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (CFATS ANPRM)

September 9, 2014 Listening Session 

Hosted by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) – Harris County Department of Education, Center for Safe and Secure Schools, 

6300 Irvington Boulevard, Houston, TX 77022

Agenda

8:00 a.m. – 9:00 a.m. Registration

9:00 a.m. – 9:20 a.m. Welcome, Introductions, and Overview

Kate Finnerty, Facilitator

Todd Klessman, Department of Homeland Security, Office of Infrastructure Protection

9:20 a.m. – 9:30 a.m. Listening Session Format

Kate Finnerty, Facilitator

9:30 a.m. – 11:00 a.m. Session 1

Comments from Listening Session Participants

11:00 a.m. – 11:15 a.m. BREAK

11:15 a.m. – 11:45 a.m. Open Session 1, as time permits

11:45 a.m. – 1:00 p.m. LUNCH

1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m. Session 2 

Comments from Listening Session Participants

3:00 p.m. – 3:15 p.m. BREAK

3:15 p.m. – 3:45 p.m. Open Session 2, as time permits

3:45 p.m. – 4:00 p.m. Closing Comments

4:00 p.m. Adjournment

Persons may also submit written comments to U.S. Department of Homeland Security, National Protection and Programs Directorate, 

Office of Infrastructure Protection, Infrastructure Security Compliance Division, 245 Murray Lane, Mail Stop 0610, Arlington, VA 20528-0610 

or through the Federal eRulemaking Portal at http://www.regulations.gov.

For more information on the CFATS ANPRM, please visit https://www.dhs.gov/CFATS-Rulemaking.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI-TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

(CFATS ANPRM)

REVISED AND CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT

Pages: 1 through 27

Place: Houston, Texas

Date: September 9, 2014

HERITAGE REPORTING CORPORATION

Official Reporters

1220 L Street, N.W., Suite 600

Washington, D.C. 20005-4018

(202) 628-4888

contracts@hrccourtreporters.com
1

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI-TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

(CFATS ANPRM)

9:00 a.m.

Tuesday,

September 9, 2014

Harris County Department of Education

Center for Safe and Secure Schools

6300 Irvington Boulevard

Houston, Texas

FACILITATOR: Kate Finnerty

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I N D E X

AGENDA ITEM PAGE

Welcome, Introductions, and Overview

Kate Finnerty, Facilitator 3

Todd Klessman, Department of Homeland Security,

Office of Infrastructure Protection 5

Listening Session Format

Kate Finnerty, Facilitator 12

Session 1

Comments from Listening Session Participants 15

Open Session 1 20

Session 2

Comments from Listening Session Participants

Open Session 2 23

Closing Comments 26

Adjournment 26

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 (9:00 a.m.)

3 MS. FINNERTY: Good morning, everyone, and 

4 welcome to the listening session for the Chemical Facility 

5 Anti-Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed 

6 Rulemaking or CFATS ANPRM that was issued by the U.S. 

7 Department of Homeland Security on August 18, 2014. 

8 We're glad that you are here with us today. 

9 This is the second listening session in a series that will 

10 be held across the country, including six in person and two

11 via webinar. 

12 My name is Kate Finnerty with Energetics 

13 Incorporated. DHS, who's leading the proposed rulemaking, 

14 has arranged for me to be your moderator today. 

15 I would also like to welcome those who have 

16 joined us on the phone. We're glad that you're able to be 

17 here with us via phone. As a reminder, you are in listen18 only mode.

19 Before we get started, I would like to make a 

20 couple of announcements. All stakeholders are welcome to 

21 submit comments on the CFATS ANPRM. Besides commenting in 

22 person at a listening session, there are two other ways to 

23 submit written comments. Both are listed on the agenda 

24 that was handed out this morning and also are posted in the

25 Federal Register notice. Those two ways are by the Federal

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1 e-rulemaking portal at www.regulations.gov and also via a 

2 physical mailing address should you not have internet 

3 access. The deadline to submit comments is October 17, 

4 2014, which is 60 calendar days after publication of the 

5 ANPRM in the Federal Register. 

6 The comments provided during this session are 

7 being transcribed for note-taking purposes. A transcript 

8 of each listening session will be posted on a docket in the

9 Federal Register at a later date. 

10 For those in the room, please always use --

11 speak near the microphones. We have them up here at the 

12 front of the room. For those joining us via phone, please 

13 excuse any technical difficulties. The transcript will 

14 include all comments made today. 

15 For those in the room, in case of emergency, 

16 the exits are right behind you. There are some glass doors

17 that will lead outside to the sidewalk. And the restrooms 

18 are located, again, out the back doors to the left.

19 As a courtesy to all those participating, 

20 please put your phones on silent, and also please be 

21 careful with any food or beverages that are here in the 

22 auditorium. 

23 So on to the purpose. The purpose for today's 

24 session is to gather public comments, data, or views on how

25 the current CFATS regulation, which is 6 CFR Part 27, 

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1 issued in 2007, might be modified. Issuing the ANPRM 

2 enables the Department to provide stakeholders with an 

3 opportunity to provide comments and suggestions for 

4 identifying ways to make the program more effective in 

5 achieving its regulatory objectives. 

6 We're going to begin with opening remarks this 

7 morning, which will include a brief overview on the status 

8 of the CFATS program, and the remainder of the session will

9 be allocated to hearing from the stakeholders. 

10 At this time, I would like to introduce Mr. 

11 Todd Klessman, Senior Policy Advisor for the DHS 

12 Infrastructure Security and Compliance Division. 

13 Mr. Klessman.

14 MR. KLESSMAN: Thank you very much, Kate. And 

15 thank you all for attending today.

16 The Homeland faces a persistent and evolving 

17 threat from terrorist groups and cells. Chemical 

18 facilities potentially are attractive targets as a 

19 successful attack on some chemical facilities could 

20 potentially cause a significant number of deaths and 

21 injuries. Certain chemical facilities possess materials 

22 that could be stolen or diverted and used as or converted 

23 into weapons for use offsite. 

24 Recognizing this, in Section 550 of the DHS 

25 Appropriations Act of 2007, Congress authorized the 

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1 Department of Homeland Security to regulate security at 

2 high-risk chemical facilities. Under Section 550, covered 

3 facilities must perform Security Vulnerability Assessments 

4 and implement Site Security Plans containing security 

5 measures that meet DHS defined Risk-Based Performance 

6 Standards.

7 To implement this authority, the Department 

8 developed the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards, 

9 otherwise known as CFATS, 6 CFR Part 27. To determine if a

10 facility is subject to CFATS, DHS looks at the unique 

11 circumstances faced by the facility, starting with the 

12 quantities of chemicals of interest the facility may 

13 possess. 

14 Potential regulation is not based on the 

15 facility type, meaning that many different types of 

16 facilities may be subject to CFATS, including chemical 

17 manufacturers, warehouses and distributors, chemical 

18 repackaging operations, oil and gas operations, hospitals, 

19 semiconductor manufacturers, paint manufacturers, colleges 

20 and universities, and mining facilities. 

21 Congress did exempt several types of facilities 

22 from regulation, such as facilities regulated under the 

23 Maritime Transportation Security Act, facilities subject to

24 regulation by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, facilities

25 owned or operated by the Department of Defense or 

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1 Department of Energy, and public water systems and water 

2 treatment works regulated by the U.S. Environmental 

3 Protection Agency. 

4 Since the program's inception, more than 3,000 

5 facilities have voluntarily removed or reduced the onsite 

6 quantities of chemicals of interest or modified their 

7 processes to the point that they are no longer considered 

8 high risk. These actions have helped reduce the number of 

9 high-risk chemical facilities throughout the Nation and 

10 have correspondingly made the Nation more secure. 

11 As of September 8, 2014, CFATS covers 3,869 

12 chemical facilities. Those are located across all 50 

13 states. Three thousand one hundred and forty-eight of 

14 those are final-tier facilities, with 721 facilities still 

15 in the preliminary-tier status. 

16 The Department has received and is in the 

17 process of reviewing Site Security Plans or Alternative 

18 Security Programs from these facilities. Of these, 2,082 

19 site security plans have been authorized to date, and 1,073

20 Site Security Plans or Alternative Security Programs have 

21 been approved to date. 

22 The first authorization inspection was 

23 conducted during the summer of 2010, and as of

24 September 8, 2014, 1,471 authorization inspections have 

25 been conducted. ISCD continues to work to strengthen the 

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1 CFATS program and improve its implementation. 

2 Although work remains to be done, in the past 

3 two years significant progress has been made. This 

4 includes improving the Site Security Plan review process 

5 and increasing the pace of Site Security Plan reviews and 

6 approvals; working with experts to evaluate and validate or

7 recommend ways to improve the CFATS risk tiering 

8 methodology; introducing game-changing initiatives, such as

9 one-day inspections with smaller inspection teams; 

10 corporate approach for companies with multiple facilities; 

11 and increased pre-inspection coordination and outreach; and

12 engagement with industry on the development of Alternative 

13 Security Program templates. 

14 The work industry has done with the Department 

15 to develop Alternative Security Program templates is a 

16 prime example of how an agency implementing a regulatory 

17 program like CFATS can work with industry to develop the 

18 tools that answer regulatory needs while also accounting 

19 for industry realities and how industry associations and 

20 other members of the private sector can support the 

21 Department's mission. 

22 Currently, CFATS is authorized on a year-to23 year basis through the Appropriations process. The 

24 Department supports a permanent authorization for the CFATS

25 program and is committed to working with Congress and other

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1 security partners to establish a permanent authority for 

2 the CFATS program. The Department firmly believes 

3 permanent authorization will provide industry with the 

4 necessary stability to move forward in effectively 

5 implementing CFATS and will send a clear message to 

6 facilities that may be seeking to avoid their obligation to

7 report dangerous chemicals.

8 HR 4007, the CFATS Authorization and 

9 Accountability Act of 2014, was passed by the U.S. House of

10 Representatives on July 8, 2014. That bill would 

11 permanently authorize the CFATS program and authorize 

12 appropriations for three fiscal years. 

13 The Senate Committee on Homeland Security and 

14 Governmental Affairs passed the Senate version of the bill,

15 entitled, Protecting and Securing Chemical Facilities from 

16 Terrorist Attacks Act of 2014 on July 30, 2014. We are 

17 grateful that Congress has recognized the progress the 

18 program has made and the importance of permanently 

19 authorizing this program.

20 In addition to the CFATS program, the 

21 Department is hard at work in implementing activities under

22 Executive Order 13650, Improving Chemical Facility Safety 

23 and Security. In August 2013, President Obama issued 

24 Executive Order 13650 to identify ways to improve the 

25 safety and security of chemical facilities and reduce risks

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1 to workers, communities, and first responders. 

2 Under Executive Order 13650, the Department of 

3 Homeland Security, Department of Labor, and the 

4 Environmental Protection Agency established a chemical 

5 facility safety and security working group. This group 

6 submitted a status report to the President entitled, 

7 "Actions to Improve Chemical Facility Safety and Security: 

8 A Shared Commitment," which was released to the public on 

9 June 6, 2014. 

10 Recognizing that information, actions, and 

11 experiences of stakeholders are essential to understanding,

12 managing, and mitigating the risks of potential chemical 

13 facility hazards, the working group initiated a robust 

14 stakeholder outreach effort to assist them in identifying 

15 successes and best practices. This outreach included 

16 engagement across all levels of government with owners and 

17 operators, industry associations, labor organizations, and 

18 communities affected by chemical plant disasters. 

19 The status report highlights activities already 

20 undertaken to improve chemical facility safety and security

21 and provides a plan for moving forward to continue the 

22 initial progress made across five thematic areas. These 

23 five thematic areas include strengthening community 

24 planning and preparedness, enhancing federal operational 

25 coordination, improving data management, modernizing 

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1 policies and regulations, and incorporating stakeholder 

2 feedback in developing best practices.

3 The status report is a milestone, not an 

4 endpoint. It recognizes that every stakeholder group in 

5 the chemical facility community has a role in ensuring safe

6 and secure operations. Safety and security are a shared 

7 commitment. DHS and our interagency colleagues are 

8 striving to improve safety and security of chemical 

9 facilities with our partners on behalf of the American 

10 public. One of the action items included in the status 

11 report is the issuance of an Advance Notice of Proposed 

12 Rulemaking for the CFATS program.

13 As we work to mature the CFATS regulatory 

14 program, DHS has initiated this rulemaking process to help 

15 identify how to make the CFATS program more effective in 

16 achieving its regulatory objectives. We believe that after

17 seven years of experience implementing the CFATS program, 

18 both the Department and the regulated community have gained

19 firsthand insight into how a non-prescriptive security 

20 regulation can be most effective. 

21 This Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking will 

22 provide an opportunity for the Department to hear and 

23 consider the views of the regulated industry and other 

24 interested members of the public on their recommendations 

25 for program modifications.

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1 DHS invites interested persons to submit 

2 written comments, data, or views on how the current CFATS 

3 regulations might be improved. The public is encouraged to

4 comment on all aspects of the program. This rulemaking 

5 covers all regulatory and guidance documents, including 

6 Appendix A, which contains the list of chemicals of 

7 interest covered by the program. 

8 The Department has, however, highlighted 

9 several topics on which public comment will be particularly

10 helpful, including the general regulatory approach, 

11 treatment of nontraditional chemical facilities, 

12 clarification of terminology, the Risk-Based Performance 

13 Standards, Appendix A, considerations for small businesses,

14 and alignment with other regulatory programs. Written 

15 comments may be submitted online through the Federal e16 rulemaking portal at www.regulations.gov or by mail to the 

17 Department of Homeland Security's Infrastructure Security 

18 Compliance Division at 245 Murray Lane, Mail Stop 0610, 

19 Arlington, Virginia, 20528-0610. 

20 Please note that any personal information 

21 included in submissions will be publicly viewable. Thank 

22 you for taking the time to be here today, and we look 

23 forward to hearing your comments and suggestions on how DHS

24 can mature the CFATS program. Thank you. 

25 MS. FINNERTY: Thank you Mr. Klessman, for your 

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1 opening remarks. 

2 The remainder of this session today is set 

3 aside to hear from the stakeholders. But before we hear 

4 from you, I would like to outline the format and ground 

5 rules for today's session.

6 This is a listening session with the purpose to 

7 hear a diverse set of opinions from across the broad 

8 spectrum of stakeholders who have an interest in improving 

9 and streamlining the CFATS rule. DHS is interested in 

10 comments on the topics described in Part 4 of the ANPRM, 

11 including the seven topics listed by Mr. Klessman a few 

12 minutes ago. 

13 We hope to hear a range of suggestions today, 

14 and all viewpoints are welcome. As such, we are not 

15 seeking consensus today on any of the topics. 

16 All presenters are asked to keep their comments 

17 directly related to the topics contained in the rule. I 

18 will also note that specific suggestions and supporting 

19 data are the most helpful comments. 

20 We hope to have time to hear from everyone 

21 today who would like to speak and I would stress that 

22 everyone is encouraged to provide written comments via one 

23 of the mechanisms that we both have mentioned in our 

24 opening comments. 

25 The rest of the day will include morning and 

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1 afternoon sessions. At the beginning of each session, I 

2 will ask those who signed up to present today to come 

3 forward and join us in the front row. Individuals will 

4 have a maximum of five minutes to present to the panel, 

5 which includes any introduction to your remarks. Members 

6 of the panel may then ask clarifying questions. I will 

7 then open the floor to anyone who would like to speak on 

8 the topics and will ask you to come forward at that time, 

9 and you will also have five minutes to present. 

10 To help us stay on track today and ensure that 

11 everyone has a chance to speak, we have a dedicated staff 

12 to watch the time carefully. Our timekeeper over to my 

13 left has a yellow card that she will hold up when you have 

14 one minute remaining and a red card when your time is up. 

15 We also have a clock at the front of the room here in case 

16 you would like to monitor your own time. We ask that you 

17 respect everyone's time today and stay within the 

18 designated time frames.

19 If there are no questions on our process, we'll 

20 go ahead and get started with stakeholder comments. I 

21 believe we have two members of the public that would like 

22 to come forward and speak publicly today. If you want to 

23 come forward and join us in the front row, we'll go ahead 

24 and get started. Come up in any order that you would like.

25 Wonderful. Well, sir, if you would like to go ahead and 

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1 get started, if you would tell us your name, and you have 

2 five minutes to present. 

3 MR. WHITLEY: Thank you. Terry Whitley, Shell 

4 Oil Company. Can the microphone pick me up? Okay. Great.

5 MS. FINNERTY: Yes. Just speak loudly so that 

6 we can all hear you. 

7 MR. WHITLEY: Great. Thank you. First of all, 

8 I'd like to thank you and DHS for putting this session on 

9 and for giving the public an opportunity to make comments.

10 I would also like to say that I appreciate 

11 ISCD's willingness to modify some of their previous 

12 positions on a lot of these subjects because working 

13 together is the only way we're going to make this program 

14 happen. So, I think we all pretty much agree on that 

15 particular point.

16 I have a number of brief topics I want to 

17 address today. I've tried to organize those in a fashion 

18 that makes sense to you, and I'll just run down that list 

19 as quickly as I can. 

20 Under the general regulatory approach, several 

21 comments I have -- first of all, let me preface, too, by 

22 saying that I am here representing my company, which is 

23 Shell Oil company, okay? So, my remarks today reflect that

24 position. 

25 Number one is that we would support eliminating 

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1 authorization inspections. I would encourage compliance 

2 assistant visits to continue. I think that's a good 

3 program. The authorization inspections seem to be a 

4 roadblock to moving things forward in some cases. I would 

5 suggest that in lieu of that that you manage your 

6 enforcement program through an audit program. You're going

7 to be auditing facilities anyway. The authorization 

8 inspection, that's only a moment in time, okay? A periodic

9 audit is the only way you're going to be able to follow up 

10 in the long term.

11 I would also suggest that maybe some self12 assessment programs are in order, similar to the MTSA 

13 requirements where facilities do an annual self-assessment 

14 and report those results. 

15 The second topic under general regulatory 

16 approach is that we have encountered issues in our industry

17 with ASPs and particularly SSPs not being reviewed and 

18 approved in a timely manner. I know you guys are working 

19 on that issue. It continues to be an issue. I would 

20 suggest you consider approaching it from a standpoint that 

21 you are obligated to respond to an ASP or an SSP within a 

22 given period of time and if you don't, no further action is

23 required. We simply notify you that our plan is in place, 

24 and then you follow up with the audit program. 

25 So, there needs to be a check and balance. I 

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1 have had some that have run eight and nine months, which in

2 my opinion is just way too long. 

3 A big issue for us is the material modification 

4 program. We have been addressing this issue with DHS for a

5 number of years. We have sites where we bring in a COI, 

6 it's there for less than 30 days. It is entirely consumed 

7 in the production or the process. And by the time we 

8 submit a Top-Screen, the product is gone. Then we have to 

9 do another Top-Screen when the product is no longer on 

10 site. We've had commitments in the past to improve the 

11 material mod process. That's got to be done. We've got to 

12 come up with an approach that works for everybody, because 

13 that is just -- the current rule is just not practical in 

14 that regard.

15 My next topic relates to clarification of 

16 terminology. There are a number of terms that I think 

17 warrant clarification, that warrant definition. For 

18 example, security breach. What do you mean by security 

19 breach? What is a high-risk facility? A definition of 

20 material modification, of critical asset, and site asset. 

21 The terminology that you use is extremely 

22 important for one reason, because when auditors come behind

23 us later, if you have not determined what the definition of

24 a security breach is, the auditors will, and each auditor 

25 will have a different definition of security breach. So, 

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1 it is really important for you guys to nail down exactly 

2 what you mean. 

3 So, with regard to the Risk-Based Performance 

4 Standards themselves, we would support combining those 

5 where it makes sense, where it will eliminate some 

6 duplication. 

7 Under alignment with other regulatory programs, 

8 the personnel surety program, I would encourage you to 

9 continue down the road of creating a website for DHS where 

10 personnel can submit their PSP directly to your agency, and

11 it would eliminate the sites collecting that data. That is

12 the single biggest step you can take to streamline the 

13 personnel surety program at this point. 

14 Similar to the TWIC program, TWIC applications 

15 are made online. There's no reason DHS can't submit PSP 

16 for CFATS facilities online as well. 

17 An issue that I've run into recently that I 

18 have grave concern over in terms of alignment with other 

19 regulatory programs is that we have other federal agents --

20 is that it? 

21 MS. FINNERTY: Yes. 

22 MR. WHITLEY: Okay. Sorry.

23 MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, Mr. Whitley. We will 

24 have an open session available --

25 MR. WHITLEY: Okay.

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1 MS. FINNERTY: -- should you wish to complete 

2 your comments.

3 Mr. Klessman. 

4 MR. KLESSMAN: Yeah. Before you go, I do have 

5 one question for you, Terry. 

6 MR. WHITLEY: Sure.

7 MR. KLESSMAN: Thank you for taking the time to 

8 come and provide this feedback, and we certainly would 

9 appreciate any written comments you have as well.

10 In regards to the material modifications 

11 process, do you have a suggestion on how that could be 

12 modified, which would make it easier on facilities who are 

13 bringing materials on-site for short periods of time? 

14 MR. WHITLEY: Yes, I do. I think it would be 

15 sufficient if we sent you an official letter of 

16 correspondence, a form, whatever you choose, saying that we

17 are bringing this product onsite and we have the following 

18 security measures in place, and it is estimated this 

19 product will be gone on or about this date. And then, we 

20 follow up and acknowledge that it's gone. I mean, 

21 something as simple as a letter or a form communicating to 

22 you should do it. 

23 MR. KLESSMAN: Okay. Thank you.

24 MR. WHITLEY: Certainly, and thank you. 

25 MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir.

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1 Do we have any others that are wishing to make 

2 public comments at this time? 

3 (No response.)

4 MS. FINNERTY: That have signed up to present? 

5 Okay. 

6 (No response.)

7 MS. FINNERTY: I would like to open the floor 

8 now for open session. We will be in open session until we 

9 break for lunch, which will be at 11:45 this morning local 

10 time. In open session, we do welcome additional comments, 

11 again, with five-minute limitations. Is there anybody that

12 would like to provide additional comments? 

13 MR. KLESSMAN: Terry, if there are things you 

14 didn't cover? 

15 MS. FINNERTY: Of course. Mr. Whitley, please 

16 join us.

17 MR. KLESSMAN: You're more than welcome.

18 MR. WHITLEY: I like this chair switching. 

19 MS. FINNERTY: Getting your exercise today. 

20 MR. WHITLEY: Thank you for my additional five 

21 minutes, and I don't think I'll need it. 

22 But an issue that I've run into recently that 

23 gives me grave concern is that we have other federal 

24 agencies coming to our CFATS locations to do audits, 

25 requesting to see CVI information. In some cases, they 

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1 have requested copies of that CVI information. 

2 And a good example of that is U.S. Customs and 

3 their C-TPAT program, Customs-Trade Partnership Against 

4 Terrorism, okay? Now, when you talk to the CFATS 

5 officials, they'll tell you that we don't require our 

6 inspectors to make and keep copies of your documents. 

7 However, in the real world, that's what's happening. 

8 So what's happening is we're being placed under 

9 demands from other federal agencies to release CVI data to 

10 them. And in the case of our recent recertification with 

11 U.S. Customs, when I brought this up, they had no idea what

12 CVI was. They were completely in the dark on the entire 

13 issue. 

14 So there's got to be something done in terms of 

15 how we communicate CVI requirements with the other federal 

16 agencies. And it's not sufficient it come from me. It's 

17 got to come from you guys to the other federal agencies I 

18 think before they're really going to pay attention. 

19 The final comment I would have is with regard 

20 to the gasoline terminals. I still firmly believe that 

21 those facilities need to come off of the CFATS register. 

22 They fall under -- they were -- initially DHS took the 

23 position that gasoline terminals would not be included in 

24 CFATS, and as you know, that decision was later reversed 

25 for reasons we do not know, okay?

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1 It has been a very controversial program. 

2 Gasoline is only in because of the mixture rule, and 

3 frankly, I don't think CFATS is yet sophisticated enough to

4 deal with a mixture. There are so many scientific and 

5 chemical discrepancies associated with mixture rules that I

6 just don't think we're there yet. 

7 And finally, the gasoline terminals just do not 

8 represent the hazard that they have been represented -- as 

9 they've been represented. So, with that, that closes out 

10 my final comments. So again, thank you very much for the 

11 opportunity to come and express how we feel. 

12 MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 

13 MR. KLESSMAN: Thank you.

14 MS. FINNERTY: Do you have any follow-up 

15 questions? 

16 MR. KLESSMAN: No questions. 

17 MR. WHITLEY: Okay. Thank you very much.

18 MS. FINNERTY: Okay. Thank you very much. 

19 We're currently in open session for the CFATS ANPRM 

20 listening session. Do we have any other members of the 

21 public that would like to speak this morning? 

22 (No response.)

23 MS. FINNERTY: We will remain in open session. 

24 If anyone does arrive or decides to make public comments, 

25 the floor will be open to you for five minutes.

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1 Again, we are in open session. I will check 

2 back periodically with those on the phone to make sure that

3 you know that we're still here. 

4 I'm going to place phones on mute for the time 

5 being so we can reduce some background noise. And I will 

6 return to the microphone when we are ready to resume with 

7 public comments. Thank you.

8 (Pause.)

9 MS. FINNERTY: Good morning. This is the 

10 listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism 

11 Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. We will 

12 be taking a 15-minute break. It is 10:30 local time. We 

13 will return to the listening session at 10:45 a.m. local 

14 time. 

15 (Off the record at 10:30 a.m.)

16 (On the record at 10:45 a.m.)

17 MS. FINNERTY: Good morning. This is the 

18 listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism 

19 Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, or CFATS 

20 ANPRM. We are currently in open session until 11:45 local 

21 time. I will keep the floor open for additional public 

22 comments until that time, when we will break for lunch. 

23 All microphones will be placed on mute to 

24 reduce background noise. I will announce when additional 

25 speakers arrive to present their comments. Thank you.

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1 (Pause.)

2 MS. FINNERTY: We are currently in the 

3 listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism 

4 Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking or CFATS 

5 ANPRM. We are now breaking for lunch. We will resume the 

6 listening session at 1:00 p.m. Thank you.

7 (Off the record at 11:45 a.m.)

8 (On the record at 1:00 p.m.)

9 MS. FINNERTY: Thank you for rejoining us at 

10 the listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti11 Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, 

12 or CFATS ANPRM, that was issued by the U.S. Department of 

13 Homeland Security on August 18, 2014.

14 I am Kate Finnerty with Energetics 

15 Incorporated, the moderator for today. The purpose of 

16 today's session is to gather public comments, data, or 

17 views on how the current CFATS regulation, which is 6 CFR 

18 Part 27, issued in 2007 might be modified.

19 Issuing the ANPRM enables the Department to 

20 provide stakeholders with an opportunity to provide 

21 comments and suggestions for identifying ways to make the 

22 program more effective in achieving its regulatory 

23 objectives.

24 The comments provided during this session are 

25 being transcribed for note-taking purposes. A transcript 

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25

1 of each listening session will be posted on a docket in The

2 Federal Register.

3 We are currently in open session for the CFATS 

4 ANPRM listening session in Houston, Texas. We'll be in 

5 open session until 4 -- well, until approximately 3:45, 

6 when we'll move to closing comments. I will keep the floor

7 open for additional public comments until that time.

8 All microphones will be placed on mute to 

9 reduce background noise and I will announce when additional

10 speakers arrive to present their comments. Thank you.

11 (Pause.)

12 MS. FINNERTY: Good afternoon. This is the 

13 listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism 

14 Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. We will 

15 be taking a 15-minute break. It is 2:30 p.m. local time. 

16 We will return to the listening session at 2:45 p.m. local 

17 time. Thank you. 

18 (Off the record at 2:30 p.m.)

19 (On the record at 2:45 p.m.)

20 MS. FINNERTY: Good afternoon. This is the 

21 listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism 

22 Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, or CFATS 

23 ANPRM, located in Houston, Texas. We are currently in open

24 session until 3:45 p.m. local time. I will keep the floor 

25 open for additional public comments until that time.

Heritage Reporting Corporation

(202) 628-4888
26

1 All microphones will be placed on mute to 

2 reduce background noise, and I will announce when 

3 additional speakers arrive to present their comments. 

4 Thank you.

5 (Pause.)

6 MS. FINNERTY: Thank you for participating in 

7 today's listening session on the Chemical Facility Anti8 Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, 

9 located in Houston, Texas. I will now close the floor for 

10 comments today. Please visit the docket to view listening 

11 session notes and to submit additional comments. Please 

12 visit the Chemical Security website to view the remaining 

13 schedule of listening sessions. We are now adjourned. 

14 (Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the listening session 

15 in the above-entitled matter was concluded.)

16 //

17 //

18 //

19 //

20 //

21 //

22 //

23 //

24 //

25 //

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27

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

IN RE: DHS CFATS ANPRM Listening Session

DATE: September 9, 2014

LOCATION: Houston, Texas

I hereby certify that the proceedings and 

evidence are contained fully and accurately on the tapes 

and notes reported by me at the hearing in the above case 

before the Department of Homeland Security.

Date: 9/16/2014

 Leslie Berridge 

Official Reporter

Heritage Reporting Corporation

1220 L Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005

Heritage Reporting Corporation

(202) 628-4888