O ffic e o f Infrast r uctur e Protection Nationa l Protect i on a n d Program s Directorate U. S . D e partment o f Homela n d S e curi t y Washington , D C 2 0528



### CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI

- TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

LISTENING SESSION HELD IN HOUSTON, TX ON SEPTEMBER 9 , 2014

CONTENTS: Agenda Transcript

## Chemical Facility Anti

- Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (CFATS ANPRM)

**September 9**  **, 2014 Listening Session** 

Hosted by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)

– Harris County Department of Education

, Center for Safe and Secure Schools

, 6300 Irvington Boulevard

, Houston, TX 77022

**Agenda**

8:00 a .m.

– 9 :00 a .m. Registration

9 :00 a .m.

– 9:20 a .m. Welcome, Introductions, and Overview Kate Finnerty , Facilitator

Todd Klessman , Department of Homeland Security, Office of Infrastructure Protection

9 : 2 0 a .m.

– 9:30 a .m. Listening Session Format Kate Finnerty , Facilitator

9:30 a.m.

– 11:00 a .m. Session 1 Comments from Listening Session Participants

11:0 0 a .m.

– 11:15 a .m. BREAK

11:15 a.m.

– 11:45 a.m. Open Session 1 , as time permits

11:45 a.m.

– 1:00 p.m. LUNCH

1:00 p.m.

– 3 : 00 p.m. Session 2 Comments from Listening Session Participants

3:00 p.m.

– 3:15 p.m. BREAK

3:15 p.m.

– 3:45 p.m. Open Session 2 , as time permits

3:45 p.m.

– 4:00 p.m. Closing Comments

4 :00 p.m. Adjournment

Persons may also submit written comments to U.S. Department of Homeland Security, National Protection and Programs Directorate, Office of Infrastructure Protection, Infrastructure Security Compliance Division, 245 Murray Lane, Mail Stop 0610, Arlington, VA 205 2 8

- 0610 or through the Federal eRulemaki ng Portal at http://www.regulations.gov

.

For more information on the CFATS ANPRM, please visit https://www.dhs.gov/ CFATS

- Rulemaking

.

# TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI

- TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

(CFATS ANPRM)

**REVISED AND CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT**

Pages: 1 through 27

Place: Houston, Texas

Date: September 9, 2014



## HERITAGE REPORTING CORPORATION Official R eporters 1220 L Street, N.W., Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20005

- 4018 (202) 628

- 4888 contracts@hrccourtreporters.com1 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI

- TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

(CFATS ANPRM)

9:00 a.m.

Tuesday,

September 9, 2014

Harris County Department of Education

Center for Safe and Secure Schools

6300 Irvington Boulevard

Houston, Texas

FACILITATOR: Kate Finnerty

Heritage Reporting Corporation (202) 628

- 48882

I N D E X

AGENDA ITEM PAGE

Welcome, Introductions, and Overview Kate Finnerty, Facilitator 3

Todd Klessman, De partment of Homeland Security, Office of Infrastructure Protection 5

Listening Session Format Kate Finnerty, Facilitator 12

Session 1 Comments from Listening Session Participants 15

Open Session 1 20

Session 2 Comments from Listening Session Participa nts

Open Session 2 23

Closing Comments 26

Adjournment 26

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P R O C E E D I N G S 1

(9:00 a.m.) 2

MS. FINNERTY: Good morning, everyone, and 3

welcome to the listening session for the Chemical Facility 4

Anti

- Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed 5

Rule making or CFATS ANPRM that was issued by the U.S. 6

Department of Homeland Security on August 18, 2014. 7

We're glad that you are here with us today. 8

This is the second listening session in a series that will 9

be held across the country, including six in pe rson and two 10

via webinar. 11

My name is Kate Finnerty with Energetics 12

Incorporated. DHS, who's leading the proposed rulemaking, 13

has arranged for me to be your moderator today. 14

I would also like to welcome those who have 15

joined us on the phone. We're gla d that you're able to be 16

here with us via phone. As a reminder, you are in listen

17

only mode. 18

Before we get started, I would like to make a 19

couple of announcements. All stakeholders are welcome to 20

submit comments on the CFATS ANPRM. Besides commenting i n 21

person at a listening session, there are two other ways to 22

submit written comments. Both are listed on the agenda 23

that was handed out this morning and also are posted in the 24

Federal Register notice. Those two ways are by the Federal 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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e

- rulemaking portal at www.regulations.gov and also via a 1

physical mailing address should you not have internet 2

access. The deadline to submit comments is October 17, 3

2014, which is 60 calendar days after publication of the 4

ANPRM in the Federal Register

. 5

The comments pro vided during this session are 6

being transcribed for note

- taking purposes. A transcript 7

of each listening session will be posted on a docket in the 8

Federal Register at a later date. 9

For those in the room, please always use

-- 10

speak near the microphones. We have them up here at the 11

front of the room. For those joining us via phone, please 12

excuse any technical difficulties. The transcript will 13

include all comments made today. 14

For those in the room, in case of emergency, 15

the exits are right behind you. There are some glass doors 16

that will lead outside to the sidewalk. And the restrooms 17

are located, again, out the back doors to the left. 18

As a courtesy to all those participating, 19

please put your phones on silent, and also please be 20

careful with any foo d or beverages that are here in the 21

auditorium. 22

So on to the purpose. The purpose for today's 23

session is to gather public comments, data, or views on how 24

the current CFATS regulation, which is 6 CFR Part 27, 25

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issued in 2007, might be modified. Issuing the ANPRM 1

enables the Department to provide stakeholders with an 2

opportunity to provide comments and suggestions for 3

identifying ways to make the program more effective in 4

achieving its regulatory objectives. 5

We're going to begin with opening remarks thi s 6

morning, which will include a brief overview on the status 7

of the CFATS program, and the remainder of the session will 8

be allocated to hearing from the stakeholders. 9

At this time, I would like to introduce Mr. 10

Todd Klessman, Senior Policy Advisor for t he DHS 11

Infrastructure Security and Compliance Division. 12

Mr. Klessman. 13

MR. KLESSMAN: Thank you very much, Kate. And 14

thank you all for attending today. 15

The Homeland faces a persistent and evolving 16

threat from terrorist groups and cells. Chemical 17

faci lities potentially are attractive targets as a 18

successful attack on some chemical facilities could 19

potentially cause a significant number of deaths and 20

injuries. Certain chemical facilities possess materials 21

that could be stolen or diverted and used as or converted 22

into weapons for use offsite. 23

Recognizing this, in Section 550 of the DHS 24

Appropriations Act of 2007, Congress authorized the 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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Department of Homeland Security to regulate security at 1

high

- risk chemical facilities. Under Section 550, covered 2

facilities must perform Security Vulnerability Assessments 3

and implement Site Security Plans containing security 4

measures that meet DHS defined Risk

- Based Performance 5

Standards. 6

To implement this authority, the Department 7

developed the Chemical Facility A nti

- Terrorism Standards, 8

otherwise known as CFATS, 6 CFR Part 27. To determine if a 9

facility is subject to CFATS, DHS looks at the unique 10

circumstances faced by the facility, starting with the 11

quantities of chemicals of interest the facility may 12

possess. 13

Potential regulation is not based on the 14

facility type, meaning that many different types of 15

facilities may be subject to CFATS, including chemical 16

manufacturers, warehouses and distributors, chemical 17

repackaging operations, oil and gas operations, hosp itals, 18

semiconductor manufacturers, paint manufacturers, colleges 19

and universities, and mining facilities. 20

Congress did exempt several types of facilities 21

from regulation, such as facilities regulated under the 22

Maritime Transportation Security Act, faci lities subject to 23

regulation by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, facilities 24

owned or operated by the Department of Defense or 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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Department of Energy, and public water systems and water 1

treatment works regulated by the U.S. Environmental 2

Protection Agency. 3

Since the program's inception, more than 3,000 4

facilities have voluntarily removed or reduced the onsite 5

quantities of chemicals of interest or modified their 6

processes to the point that they are no longer considered 7

high risk. These actions have helpe d reduce the number of 8

high

- risk chemical facilities throughout the Nation and 9

have correspondingly made the Nation more secure. 10

As of September 8, 2014, CFATS covers 3,869 11

chemical facilities. Those are located across all 50 12

states. Three thousand on e hundred and forty

- eight of 13

those are final

- tier facilities, with 721 facilities still 14

in the preliminary

- tier status. 15

The Department has received and is in the 16

process of reviewing Site Security Plans or Alternative 17

Security Programs from these facili ties. Of these, 2,082 18

site security plans have been authorized to date, and 1,073 19

Site Security Plans or Alternative Security Programs have 20

been approved to date. 21

The first authorization inspection was 22

conducted during the summer of 2010, and as of 23

Sep tember 8, 2014, 1,471 authorization inspections have 24

been conducted. ISCD continues to work to strengthen the 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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CFATS program and improve its implementation. 1

Although work remains to be done, in the past 2

two years significant progress has been made. Thi s 3

includes improving the Site Security Plan review process 4

and increasing the pace of Site Security Plan reviews and 5

approvals; working with experts to evaluate and validate or 6

recommend ways to improve the CFATS risk tiering 7

methodology; introducing game

- changing initiatives, such as 8

one

- day inspections with smaller inspection teams; 9

corporate approach for companies with multiple facilities; 10

and increased pre

- inspection coordination and outreach; and 11

engagement with industry on the development of Alterna tive 12

Security Program templates. 13

The work industry has done with the Department 14

to develop Alternative Security Program templates is a 15

prime example of how an agency implementing a regulatory 16

program like CFATS can work with industry to develop the 17

tool s that answer regulatory needs while also accounting 18

for industry realities and how industry associations and 19

other members of the private sector can support the 20

Department's mission. 21

Currently, CFATS is authorized on a year

- to

22

year basis through the Ap propriations process. The 23

Department supports a permanent authorization for the CFATS 24

program and is committed to working with Congress and other 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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security partners to establish a permanent authority for 1

the CFATS program. The Department firmly believes 2

p ermanent authorization will provide industry with the 3

necessary stability to move forward in effectively 4

implementing CFATS and will send a clear message to 5

facilities that may be seeking to avoid their obligation to 6

report dangerous chemicals. 7

HR 4007, t he CFATS Authorization and 8

Accountability Act of 2014, was passed by the U.S. House of 9

Representatives on July 8, 2014. That bill would 10

permanently authorize the CFATS program and authorize 11

appropriations for three fiscal years. 12

The Senate Committee on Homeland Security and 13

Governmental Affairs passed the Senate version of the bill, 14

entitled, Protecting and Securing Chemical Facilities from 15

Terrorist Attacks Act of 2014 on July 30, 2014. We are 16

grateful that Congress has recognized the progress the 17

pro gram has made and the importance of permanently 18

authorizing this program. 19

In addition to the CFATS program, the 20

Department is hard at work in implementing activities under 21

Executive Order 13650, Improving Chemical Facility Safety 22

and Security. In August 2013, President Obama issued 23

Executive Order 13650 to identify ways to improve the 24

safety and security of chemical facilities and reduce risks 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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to workers, communities, and first responders. 1

Under Executive Order 13650, the Department of 2

Homeland Securit y, Department of Labor, and the 3

Environmental Protection Agency established a chemical 4

facility safety and security working group. This group 5

submitted a status report to the President entitled, 6

"Actions to Improve Chemical Facility Safety and Security: 7

A Shared Commitment," which was released to the public on 8

June 6, 2014. 9

Recognizing that information, actions, and 10

experiences of stakeholders are essential to understanding, 11

managing, and mitigating the risks of potential chemical 12

facility hazards, the working group initiated a robust 13

stakeholder outreach effort to assist them in identifying 14

successes and best practices. This outreach included 15

engagement across all levels of government with owners and 16

operators, industry associations, labor organization s, and 17

communities affected by chemical plant disasters. 18

The status report highlights activities already 19

undertaken to improve chemical facility safety and security 20

and provides a plan for moving forward to continue the 21

initial progress made across five thematic areas. These 22

five thematic areas include strengthening community 23

planning and preparedness, enhancing federal operational 24

coordination, improving data management, modernizing 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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policies and regulations, and incorporating stakeholder 1

feedback in de veloping best practices. 2

The status report is a milestone, not an 3

endpoint. It recognizes that every stakeholder group in 4

the chemical facility community has a role in ensuring safe 5

and secure operations. Safety and security are a shared 6

commitment. DH S and our interagency colleagues are 7

striving to improve safety and security of chemical 8

facilities with our partners on behalf of the American 9

public. One of the action items included in the status 10

report is the issuance of an Advance Notice of Proposed 11

Rulemaking for the CFATS program. 12

As we work to mature the CFATS regulatory 13

program, DHS has initiated this rulemaking process to help 14

identify how to make the CFATS program more effective in 15

achieving its regulatory objectives. We believe that after 16

sev en years of experience implementing the CFATS program, 17

both the Department and the regulated community have gained 18

firsthand insight into how a non

- prescriptive security 19

regulation can be most effective. 20

This Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking will 21

p rovide an opportunity for the Department to hear and 22

consider the views of the regulated industry and other 23

interested members of the public on their recommendations 24

for program modifications. 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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DHS invites interested persons to submit 1

written comments, dat a, or views on how the current CFATS 2

regulations might be improved. The public is encouraged to 3

comment on all aspects of the program. This rulemaking 4

covers all regulatory and guidance documents, including 5

Appendix A, which contains the list of chemical s of 6

interest covered by the program. 7

The Department has, however, highlighted 8

several topics on which public comment will be particularly 9

helpful, including the general regulatory approach, 10

treatment of nontraditional chemical facilities, 11

clarification of terminology, the Risk

- Based Performance 12

Standards, Appendix A, considerations for small businesses, 13

and alignment with other regulatory programs. Written 14

comments may be submitted online through the Federal e

15

rulemaking portal at www.regulations.gov o r by mail to the 16

Department of Homeland Security's Infrastructure Security 17

Compliance Division at 245 Murray Lane, Mail Stop 0610, 18

Arlington, Virginia, 20528

- 0610. 19

Please note that any personal information 20

included in submissions will be publicly viewab le. Thank 21

you for taking the time to be here today, and we look 22

forward to hearing your comments and suggestions on how DHS 23

can mature the CFATS program. Thank you. 24

MS. FINNERTY: Thank you Mr. Klessman, for your 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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opening remarks. 1

The remainder of th is session today is set 2

aside to hear from the stakeholders. But before we hear 3

from you, I would like to outline the format and ground 4

rules for today's session. 5

This is a listening session with the purpose to 6

hear a diverse set of opinions from across the broad 7

spectrum of stakeholders who have an interest in improving 8

and streamlining the CFATS rule. DHS is interested in 9

comments on the topics described in Part 4 of the ANPRM, 10

including the seven topics listed by Mr. Klessman a few 11

minutes ago. 12

We hope to hear a range of suggestions today, 13

and all viewpoints are welcome. As such, we are not 14

seeking consensus today on any of the topics. 15

All presenters are asked to keep their comments 16

directly related to the topics contained in the rule. I 17

will a lso note that specific suggestions and supporting 18

data are the most helpful comments. 19

We hope to have time to hear from everyone 20

today who would like to speak and I would stress that 21

everyone is encouraged to provide written comments via one 22

of the mech anisms that we both have mentioned in our 23

opening comments. 24

The rest of the day will include morning and 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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afternoon sessions. At the beginning of each session, I 1

will ask those who signed up to present today to come 2

forward and join us in the front row. Individuals will 3

have a maximum of five minutes to present to the panel, 4

which includes any introduction to your remarks. Members 5

of the panel may then ask clarifying questions. I will 6

then open the floor to anyone who would like to speak on 7

the topics and will ask you to come forward at that time, 8

and you will also have five minutes to present. 9

To help us stay on track today and ensure that 10

everyone has a chance to speak, we have a dedicated staff 11

to watch the time carefully. Our timekeeper over to my 12

left has a yellow card that she will hold up when you have 13

one minute remaining and a red card when your time is up. 14

We also have a clock at the front of the room here in case 15

you would like to monitor your own time. We ask that you 16

respect everyone's time today and stay within the 17

designated time frames. 18

If there are no questions on our process, we'll 19

go ahead and get started with stakeholder comments. I 20

believe we have two members of the public that would like 21

to come forward and speak publicly tod ay. If you want to 22

come forward and join us in the front row, we'll go ahead 23

and get started. Come up in any order that you would like. 24

Wonderful. Well, sir, if you would like to go ahead and 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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get started, if you would tell us your name, and you have 1

fi ve minutes to present. 2

MR. WHITLEY: Thank you. Terry Whitley, Shell 3

Oil Company. Can the microphone pick me up? Okay. Great. 4

MS. FINNERTY: Yes. Just speak loudly so that 5

we can all hear you. 6

MR. WHITLEY: Great. Thank you. First of a ll, 7

I'd like to thank you and DHS for putting this session on 8

and for giving the public an opportunity to make comments. 9

I would also like to say that I appreciate 10

ISCD's willingness to modify some of their previous 11

positions on a lot of these subjects be cause working 12

together is the only way we're going to make this program 13

happen. So, I think we all pretty much agree on that 14

particular point. 15

I have a number of brief topics I want to 16

address today. I've tried to organize those in a fashion 17

that makes sense to you, and I'll just run down that list 18

as quickly as I can. 19

Under the general regulatory approach, several 20

comments I have

-- first of all, let me preface, too, by 21

saying that I am here representing my company, which is 22

Shell Oil company, okay? So, my remarks today reflect that 23

position. 24

Number one is that we would support eliminating 25

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authorization inspections. I would encourage compliance 1

assistant visits to continue. I think that's a good 2

program. The authorization inspections seem to be a 3

roadblock to moving things forward in some cases. I would 4

suggest that in lieu of that that you manage your 5

enforcement program through an audit program. You're going 6

to be auditing facilities anyway. The authorization 7

inspection, that's only a moment in time, okay? A periodic 8

audit is the only way you're going to be able to follow up 9

in the long term. 10

I would also suggest that maybe some self

11

assessment programs are in order, similar to the MTSA 12

requirements where facilities do an annual self

- assess ment 13

and report those results. 14

The second topic under general regulatory 15

approach is that we have encountered issues in our industry 16

with ASPs and particularly SSPs not being reviewed and 17

approved in a timely manner. I know you guys are working 18

on that issue. It continues to be an issue. I would 19

suggest you consider approaching it from a standpoint that 20

you are obligated to respond to an ASP or an SSP within a 21

given period of time and if you don't, no further action is 22

required. We simply notify you that our plan is in place, 23

and then you follow up with the audit program. 24

So, there needs to be a check and balance. I 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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have had some that have run eight and nine months, which in 1

my opinion is just way too long. 2

A big issue for us is the material m odification 3

program. We have been addressing this issue with DHS for a 4

number of years. We have sites where we bring in a COI, 5

it's there for less than 30 days. It is entirely consumed 6

in the production or the process. And by the time we 7

submit a Top

- S creen, the product is gone. Then we have to 8

do another Top

- Screen when the product is no longer on 9

site. We've had commitments in the past to improve the 10

material mod process. That's got to be done. We've got to 11

come up with an approach that works for e verybody, because 12

that is just

-- the current rule is just not practical in 13

that regard. 14

My next topic relates to clarification of 15

terminology. There are a number of terms that I think 16

warrant clarification, that warrant definition. For 17

example, securit y breach. What do you mean by security 18

breach? What is a high

- risk facility? A definition of 19

material modification, of critical asset, and site asset. 20

The terminology that you use is extremely 21

important for one reason, because when auditors come behi nd 22

us later, if you have not determined what the definition of 23

a security breach is, the auditors will, and each auditor 24

will have a different definition of security breach. So, 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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it is really important for you guys to nail down exactly 1

what you mean. 2

So , with regard to the Risk

- Based Performance 3

Standards themselves, we would support combining those 4

where it makes sense, where it will eliminate some 5

duplication. 6

Under alignment with other regulatory programs, 7

the personnel surety program, I would enco urage you to 8

continue down the road of creating a website for DHS where 9

personnel can submit their PSP directly to your agency, and 10

it would eliminate the sites collecting that data. That is 11

the single biggest step you can take to streamline the 12

personnel surety program at this point. 13

Similar to the TWIC program, TWIC applications 14

are made online. There's no reason DHS can't submit PSP 15

for CFATS facilities online as well. 16

An issue that I've run into recently that I 17

have grave concern over in terms of alignment with other 18

regulatory programs is that we have other federal agents

-- 19

is that it? 20

MS. FINNERTY: Yes. 21

MR. WHITLEY: Okay. Sorry. 22

MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, Mr. Whitley. We will 23

have an open session available

-- 24

MR. WHITLEY: Okay. 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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MS . FINNERTY:

-- should you wish to complete 1

your comments. 2

Mr. Klessman. 3

MR. KLESSMAN: Yeah. Before you go, I do have 4

one question for you, Terry. 5

MR. WHITLEY: Sure. 6

MR. KLESSMAN: Thank you for taking the time to 7

come and provide this feedback, a nd we certainly would 8

appreciate any written comments you have as well. 9

In regards to the material modifications 10

process, do you have a suggestion on how that could be 11

modified, which would make it easier on facilities who are 12

bringing materials on

- site f or short periods of time? 13

MR. WHITLEY: Yes, I do. I think it would be 14

sufficient if we sent you an official letter of 15

correspondence, a form, whatever you choose, saying that we 16

are bringing this product onsite and we have the following 17

security measur es in place, and it is estimated this 18

product will be gone on or about this date. And then, we 19

follow up and acknowledge that it's gone. I mean, 20

something as simple as a letter or a form communicating to 21

you should do it. 22

MR. KLESSMAN: Okay. Thank yo u. 23

MR. WHITLEY: Certainly, and thank you. 24

MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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Do we have any others that are wishing to make 1

public comments at this time? 2

(No response.) 3

MS. FINNERTY: That have signed up to present? 4

Okay. 5

(No response.) 6

MS. FINNER TY: I would like to open the floor 7

now for open session. We will be in open session until we 8

break for lunch, which will be at 11:45 this morning local 9

time. In open session, we do welcome additional comments, 10

again, with five

- minute limitations. Is th ere anybody that 11

would like to provide additional comments? 12

MR. KLESSMAN: Terry, if there are things you 13

didn't cover? 14

MS. FINNERTY: Of course. Mr. Whitley, please 15

join us. 16

MR. KLESSMAN: You're more than welcome. 17

MR. WHITLEY: I like this chair s witching. 18

MS. FINNERTY: Getting your exercise today. 19

MR. WHITLEY: Thank you for my additional five 20

minutes, and I don't think I'll need it. 21

But an issue that I've run into recently that 22

gives me grave concern is that we have other federal 23

agencies coming to our CFATS locations to do audits, 24

requesting to see CVI information. In some cases, they 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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have requested copies of that CVI information. 1

And a good example of that is U.S. Customs and 2

their C

- TPAT program, Customs

- Trade Partnership Against 3

Te rrorism, okay? Now, when you talk to the CFATS 4

officials, they'll tell you that we don't require our 5

inspectors to make and keep copies of your documents. 6

However, in the real world, that's what's happening. 7

So what's happening is we're being placed u nder 8

demands from other federal agencies to release CVI data to 9

them. And in the case of our recent recertification with 10

U.S. Customs, when I brought this up, they had no idea what 11

CVI was. They were completely in the dark on the entire 12

issue. 13

So ther e's got to be something done in terms of 14

how we communicate CVI requirements with the other federal 15

agencies. And it's not sufficient it come from me. It's 16

got to come from you guys to the other federal agencies I 17

think before they're really going to pay attention. 18

The final comment I would have is with regard 19

to the gasoline terminals. I still firmly believe that 20

those facilities need to come off of the CFATS register. 21

They fall under

-- they were

-- initially DHS took the 22

position that gasoline term inals would not be included in 23

CFATS, and as you know, that decision was later reversed 24

for reasons we do not know, okay? 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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It has been a very controversial program. 1

Gasoline is only in because of the mixture rule, and 2

frankly, I don't think CFATS is yet s ophisticated enough to 3

deal with a mixture. There are so many scientific and 4

chemical discrepancies associated with mixture rules that I 5

just don't think we're there yet. 6

And finally, the gasoline terminals just do not 7

represent the hazard that they ha ve been represented

-- as 8

they've been represented. So, with that, that closes out 9

my final comments. So again, thank you very much for the 10

opportunity to come and express how we feel. 11

MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 12

MR. KLESSMAN: Thank you. 13

MS. FIN NERTY: Do you have any follow

- up 14

questions? 15

MR. KLESSMAN: No questions. 16

MR. WHITLEY: Okay. Thank you very much. 17

MS. FINNERTY: Okay. Thank you very much. 18

We're currently in open session for the CFATS ANPRM 19

listening session. Do we have any othe r members of the 20

public that would like to speak this morning? 21

(No response.) 22

MS. FINNERTY: We will remain in open session. 23

If anyone does arrive or decides to make public comments, 24

the floor will be open to you for five minutes. 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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Again, we are in op en session. I will check 1

back periodically with those on the phone to make sure that 2

you know that we're still here. 3

I'm going to place phones on mute for the time 4

being so we can reduce some background noise. And I will 5

return to the microphone when we are ready to resume with 6

public comments. Thank you. 7

(Pause.) 8

MS. FINNERTY: Good morning. This is the 9

listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti

- Terrorism 10

Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. We will 11

be taking a 15

- minute break. It is 10:30 local time. We 12

will return to the listening session at 10:45 a.m. local 13

time. 14

(Off the record at 10:30 a.m.) 15

(On the record at 10:45 a.m.) 16

MS. FINNERTY: Good morning. This is the 17

listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti

- Terrorism 18

Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, or CFATS 19

ANPRM. We are currently in open session until 11:45 local 20

time. I will keep the floor open for additional public 21

comments until that time, when we will break for lunch. 22

All microphone s will be placed on mute to 23

reduce background noise. I will announce when additional 24

speakers arrive to present their comments. Thank you. 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

- 488824

(Pause.) 1

MS. FINNERTY: We are currently in the 2

listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti

- Terrorism 3

Standa rds Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking or CFATS 4

ANPRM. We are now breaking for lunch. We will resume the 5

listening session at 1:00 p.m. Thank you. 6

(Off the record at 11:45 a.m.) 7

(On the record at 1:00 p.m.) 8

MS. FINNERTY: Thank you for rejoining u s at 9

the listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti

10

Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, 11

or CFATS ANPRM, that was issued by the U.S. Department of 12

Homeland Security on August 18, 2014. 13

I am Kate Finnerty with Energetics 14

Incorpo rated, the moderator for today. The purpose of 15

today's session is to gather public comments, data, or 16

views on how the current CFATS regulation, which is 6 CFR 17

Part 27, issued in 2007 might be modified. 18

Issuing the ANPRM enables the Department to 19

provide stakeholders with an opportunity to provide 20

comments and suggestions for identifying ways to make the 21

program more effective in achieving its regulatory 22

objectives. 23

The comments provided during this session are 24

being transcribed for note

- taking purposes. A transcript 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

- 488825

of each listening session will be posted on a docket in The 1

Federal Register

. 2

We are currently in open session for the CFATS 3

ANPRM listening session in Houston, Texas. We'll be in 4

open session until 4

-- well, until approximately 3:45, 5

whe n we'll move to closing comments. I will keep the floor 6

open for additional public comments until that time. 7

All microphones will be placed on mute to 8

reduce background noise and I will announce when additional 9

speakers arrive to present their comments. Thank you. 10

(Pause.) 11

MS. FINNERTY: Good afternoon. This is the 12

listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti

- Terrorism 13

Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. We will 14

be taking a 15

- minute break. It is 2:30 p.m. local time. 15

We will retur n to the listening session at 2:45 p.m. local 16

time. Thank you. 17

(Off the record at 2:30 p.m.) 18

(On the record at 2:45 p.m.) 19

MS. FINNERTY: Good afternoon. This is the 20

listening session for the Chemical Facility Anti

- Terrorism 21

Standards Advance Notice o f Proposed Rulemaking, or CFATS 22

ANPRM, located in Houston, Texas. We are currently in open 23

session until 3:45 p.m. local time. I will keep the floor 24

open for additional public comments until that time. 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

- 488826

All microphones will be placed on mute to 1

reduce ba ckground noise, and I will announce when 2

additional speakers arrive to present their comments. 3

Thank you. 4

(Pause.) 5

MS. FINNERTY: Thank you for participating in 6

today's listening session on the Chemical Facility Anti

7

Terrorism Standards Advance Notice o f Proposed Rulemaking, 8

located in Houston, Texas. I will now close the floor for 9

comments today. Please visit the docket to view listening 10

session notes and to submit additional comments. Please 11

visit the Chemical Security website to view the remaining 12

schedule of listening sessions. We are now adjourned. 13

(Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the listening session 14

in the above

- entitled matter was concluded.) 15

// 16

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// 19

// 20

// 21

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// 23

// 24

// 25

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

IN RE: DHS CFATS ANPRM Listening Session

DATE: September 9, 2014

LOCATION: Houston, Texas

I hereby certify that the proceedings and

evidence are contained fully and accurately on the tapes

and notes reported by me at the hearing in the above case

before the Department of Homeland Security.

Date: 9/16/2014

Leslie Berridge

Official Reporter

Heritage Reporting Corporation

1220 L Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005

Heritage Reporting Corpo ration (202) 628

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