1

 1 THE UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY'S PUBLIC

2 HEARING ON WOOL FIBERGLASS MANUFACTURING RULE 

 3 January 4th, 2012 

 4 __________ 

 5 Susan Fairchild US EPA. 

 6 Steve Fruh US EPA. 

 7 Mark Smith US EPA Region 7. 

 8 Hugh McCullough US EPA Region 7. 

 9 __________ 

10 Also Present: Dave Reeves, RTI International

11 

12 

13 __________ 

14 Richard Mabion, Speaker. Page 5 

15 Rachel Jefferson, Speaker. Page 8 

16 Chester Owens, Speaker. Page 10 

17 Craig Volland, Speaker. Page 14 

18 Junette Hunter, Speaker. Page 21 

19 Angus Crane, Speaker. Page 22 

20 L.V. Quinn, Speaker. Page 29 

21 Marvin Robinson, Speaker. Page 33 

22 Marilyn White, Speaker. Page 41 

23 Elnora Jefferson, Speaker. Page 45 

24 Clintel Betts, Speaker. Page 71 

25 
 2

 1 MR. FRUH: Good afternoon. We are here --

 2 I am going to read a spiel for teeing this public hearing

 3 up. My name is Steve Fruh, I am the associate division

 4 director in the Office of Air Quality Planning and

 5 Standards. Susan Fairchild is the project lead that

 6 developed the proposed rule here and we traveled here from

 7 Research Triangle Park, North Carolina to conduct this

 8 public hearing and take comment on the proposed rule.

 9 On November 4th of 2011, the EPA proposed

10 changes to the original rulemaking for wool fiberglass.

11 The proposed rule further reduces emissions or proposes to

12 reduce air toxics, these are also known as hazardous air

13 pollutants. These pollutants -- this is sort of the

14 second phase of rulemaking. We typically do a

15 technology-based standard, the initial rulemaking, and

16 then we come back and do a review that looks at the rule

17 from a health perspective.

18 So the pollutants emitted from this

19 industry are known to cause cancer and other negative

20 health and enviromental effects. The EPA issues standards

21 for the wool fiberglass manufacturing industry. The

22 original rulemaking was in June 1999. The review of this

23 standard is what we are here to talk about today. The

24 fiberglass -- wool fiberglass industry currently has 29

25 facilities in the United States and this industry has
 3

 1 undergone some changes of late.

 2 They have been switching binders that they

 3 use in their process and this is a good thing because I

 4 believe the newer binders that many of the companies are

 5 using are not -- do not contain hazardous air pollutants.

 6 So this is a phase that the industry is undergoing to try

 7 to remove some of the hazardous pollutant materials from

 8 their raw materials.

 9 Today we are going to accept oral comment

10 from anyone that would like to sign up and be heard. We

11 do try to limit the time to approximately five minutes.

12 We don't have a very large crowd here so -- you know, as

13 time permits, we will allow that to run over slightly.

14 But be cognizant of that and try to be respective of

15 others a well as you make your comments.

16 We will call the speakers with what we have

17 currently, a handful of folks signed up and we will call

18 these up in pairs. And so if you're the next in the cue,

19 you, kind of, know that you are, sort of, on deck after

20 the person that is currently speaking. We are going to

21 use -- I have done these in the past where we had, sort

22 of, a digital timer. We will do it the old fashioned way,

23 we have an hour glass here, or a five-minute glass, I

24 should say. So we will, sort of, use that to try to keep

25 us on pace.
 4

 1 Today's hearing we are starting at 2:00

 2 p.m., this is central time, right? And we will be

 3 available until 8:00 p.m. But as people have signed up

 4 for various time slots, if we don't have others before

 5 then, if you want to move your time up for those speakers

 6 that are here, we will certainly accommodate that.

 7 Let's see, what else, if you have questions

 8 as we go through this, we are not here to -- this is not a

 9 question and answer session, it is simply an opportunity

10 for the public to provide comment. We are not going to

11 answer questions that may be posed but your comments will

12 be treated just like all the other written comments that

13 are submitted to the docket and they will be part of the

14 formal record for this rulemaking. And we will address

15 any comments that are made but we do that that in the form

16 of the preamble for the final rule.

17 If there is not any questions from anyone,

18 does everyone, sort of, understand the process? Then we

19 will go ahead and get started with the first speaker. But

20 before we do, I have already introduced Susan, we also

21 have from the region, Mark Smith. Mark, do you show folks

22 --

23 MR. SMITH: Mark Smith, I am from EPA

24 Region 7, which is in Kansas City right across the street

25 here, Branch G for Air Permeation and Compliance.
 5

 1 MR. FRUH: Okay, with that said, the first

 2 person on the list was Richard Mabion. And this is a

 3 fairly small -- you're welcome to come up. The next

 4 person after Richard is Rachel Jefferson. And as long as

 5 you are aware, you're welcome to come up and sit now but

 6 as long as you know that you are next in the cue.

 7 MR. MABION: Richard Mabion, M-A-B-I-O-N,

 8 and I am building a sustainable earth community. I was

 9 just going to mention to you that I asked for an extra

10 five minutes there so --

11 MR. FRUH: Okay.

12 MR. MABION: I have an enviromental

13 business organization. What we do, is work toward

14 creating an environmentally literate low-income

15 population, so we spend a lot of time teaching. And the

16 first part of my question had to deal -- first of all, my

17 comment has to deal with the aspect that I am very

18 concerned about the way information -- about a hazard such

19 as this chemical that was floating around in the air back

20 in November of 2010 was handled. I think it puts a

21 perception out of clandestine-type activity that people

22 wonder really what is going on.

23 So in my particular job, as far as working

24 with neighborhood people, it really makes it difficult for

25 me to have to try to explain to people why nothing was
 6

 1 said in November of 2010. Granted, I worked at the Sierra

 2 Club and they will say, well, you know, it takes a time or

 3 a period to do this, do that, so I understand all of that.

 4 But I wanted you to be aware and cognizant that in the

 5 reporting of these incidents, when these chemicals are

 6 floating through the air, please take into consideration

 7 we would like to know about it a little bit more.

 8 Last night I had a meeting with the NAACP

 9 Chapter in Kansas City, Kansas and made them aware of this

10 meeting, made them aware of the issue that was going on.

11 For many of them, this was the first time they had heard

12 anything about it. So I am saying, we have that problem,

13 we have to work on but we don't mind doing what we need to

14 do. They sent this with me today because they wanted to

15 make sure that it got on the record. This is their NAACP

16 2011 Resolution for the Clean Air Act. So I am going to

17 read that and take up my time.

18 Where as NAACP has committed to insuring

19 safeguards to reduce air pollution in resolutions in 1993,

20 '96, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2009, on the enviromental

21 and climate change challenges in our communities; and

22 whereas sound principals of karma and enviromental justice

23 oppose processes that are damaging to the environment and

24 increase inequities and more severely impact communities

25 of color and low income communities; and whereas over 70
 7

 1 percent of African Americans live in counties in violation

 2 of the federal air pollution standards; whereas in every

 3 one of the 44 major metropolitan areas in the U.S.,

 4 African Americans are more likely than whites to be

 5 exposed to a higher air toxic contamination.

 6 As a result, African Americans are nearly

 7 three times as likely to be hospitalized or killed;

 8 whereas emissions and pollution include lead, which has

 9 been tied to educational and behavioral challenges thereby

10 impacting the learning opportunities for children of color

11 and potentially contributing to the school of prison pipe

12 line, whereas emissions from air pollution includes

13 mercury, which has been tied to negative birth outcomes in

14 African American families already suffer from high rates

15 of low birth weight and infant mortality.

16 Whereas the presence of toxic facilities in

17 communities have negatively effective on property values

18 thereby negatively impacting the economic well being and

19 wealth development potential with the communities of color

20 which disproportionately host facilities that emit

21 pollution; and whereas multiple policies initiatives that

22 have been introduced in Congress to defund -- lessen the

23 power of the Clean Air Act as well as to significantly

24 reduce the authority of the Environmental Protection

25 Agency, which is tasked with monitoring and regulating
 8

 1 pollution and other harms in the air that we breathe, the

 2 water we drink and the land on which we live.

 3 Therefore, be it resolved, the NAACP

 4 reiterates its support for the Clean Air Act as a critical

 5 bedrock policy for the protection of the environment and

 6 the human health and well being. And be it finally

 7 resolved that the NAACP will put the power and resources

 8 of the association's unit and members behind protecting

 9 and defending environmental policies designed to provide

10 safeguards to assure that all communities are breathing

11 clean air, ingesting clean water and living and thriving

12 on safe lands. Thank you.

13 MR. FRUH: Now, does that conclude your --

14 MR. MABION: Yes, sir.

15 MR. FRUH: Did you want to provide a copy

16 of the --

17 MR. MABION: I just got this from them last

18 night so I think that I have got some extra time and I

19 think they said we can get it put together to turn in. So

20 I will take care of that.

21 MR. FRUH: Thank you. Next we have Rachel

22 Jefferson.

23 MS. JEFFERSON: Hello, how are you?

24 MR. FRUH: Hi, Rachel.

25 MS. JEFFERSON: My name is Rachel
 9

 1 Jefferson, I am a representative of Quindaro Family Health

 2 Care and Southwest Boulevard Health Care in Wyandotte

 3 County, Kansas. I am reading a short statement today that

 4 was provided to me by our executive director Dr. Sharon

 5 Lee.

 6 As a provider of medical services in the

 7 neighborhood, Quindaro Family Health Care is very

 8 interested in the health of our community. We request the

 9 EPA provide strong oversight on emissions from all

10 manufacturing in our area. History shows that lack of

11 strong oversight often reflects harm to those who reside

12 nearby when toxic chemicals are released without

13 treatment. ThaUJTall I had to say.

14 MR. FRUH: Anything else that you would

15 like to add?

16 MS. JEFFERSON: Personally, I think it is

17 critical that there is something put in place to protect

18 the people of the community in which I actually live and

19 work. It's just kind of saddening to see these issues

20 passed over again and again when they are obviously

21 affecting the health and well being of so many people.

22 Yeah, that is it.

23 MR. FRUH: I wanted to ask sort of a

24 clarifying question. I don't know if I am deviating from

25 the process or not but I guess that is my prerogative
 10

 1 since I am chairing this thing. Was there an incident or

 2 has there been an incident? The gentleman before you

 3 mentioned something in 2010. Was there a specific

 4 incident that has occurred at one of the plants in this

 5 area?

 6 MR. MABION: Yes, there was. Just that the

 7 test was made November 2010 to show high levels of the

 8 chemical that we are talking about. And that was why I

 9 brought it up as far as no one knowing. You know, here it

10 is a year later and we are finding out something like this

11 happened in 2010.

12 MR. FRUH: And was this testing conducted

13 by the company?

14 MR. MABION: I believe so.

15 MR. FRUH: So all of that information is

16 well documented. Okay, thank you. We have the next two

17 speakers, Chester Owens is up next and following Chester

18 is Craig Volland.

19 MR. OWENS: Good afternoon, my name is

20 Chester Owens, I live at 1150 Washington Boulevard.

21 Beginning, I guess I should thank the companies because

22 they helped me go back to college in 1956 or '57, I worked

23 for Guston Bacon. So that tells you, if you're familiar

24 with the area, about how old I am. But I went there one

25 night and I guess there were no safeguards and the
 11

 1 fiberglass would literally eat you alive during that time

 2 and so I left there, that sent me back to college. I had

 3 a decision to make, so I left. That is kind of the story

 4 I would like to relate. In discussing the subject you are

 5 talking about, sometimes it gets difficult for us to

 6 separate things to confine it just with the fiberglass

 7 company. So I have written a statement that I would read.

 8 The Kansas health Institute in 2009 ranked

 9 the 105 counties of Kansas as related to their heath,

10 Wyandotte County was ranked 105th, the last of all the

11 counties, the lowest-rated county in the State of Kansas.

12 Physical environment was listed as one of the poor health

13 determents. Quoting from the report, it states that the

14 physical environment determines the daily condition in

15 which we live, these conditions, the quality of air we

16 breathe and the water we drink among them, significantly

17 affect our health.

18 I have lived in the northeast area of

19 Kansas City, Kansas for 63 years and many of my neighbors

20 have lived in this area even longer than I have. We see

21 the smoke that comes from -- not from -- many of the

22 plants in Fairfax, and we wonder how is this is affecting

23 our health and the health of our children. The citizens

24 who live closest to Fairfax are probably the most

25 vulnerable persons in Wyandotte County. We must depend on
 12

 1 agencies like the EPA to provide the proper controls to

 2 see that we receive the best protection.

 3 And I think one of conditions that Mr.

 4 Mabion has stated when the situation occurred, we knew

 5 nothing about it but we need to be informed, stronger

 6 standards should be set taking into account the

 7 vulnerability of children. It appears to some of us who

 8 live in the vicinity of the industrial area, that some

 9 days are worse than others. And believe me, we can tell

10 it, I can tell it. I am not a young person, when it comes

11 to air quality. We feel some type of mask should be made

12 available to citizens on those days and also to persons

13 who may have special needs when it comes to air quality.

14 We feel that it is important for the EPA to

15 learn about the communities which may be more affected by

16 air and water pollution. There should be some dialogue

17 instead of monologue, which to too often happens. The

18 name of the group of which I am a member has had concerns,

19 and this a maybe off a little bit, for some time about the

20 water in Big 11 Lake and this lake is six blocks from this

21 facility. We raise the question as to whether it was safe

22 to eat the fish that was caught.

23 The concern became greater in 2011 because

24 of the increase in the number of persons who are now

25 fishing at this lake. Testing of the waters is now going
 13

 1 on and we were involved in the process. We wrote a letter

 2 to the EPA concerning whether or not it was safe for

 3 persons to consume fish from the lake based on their

 4 reports. We received an answer and as far as we are able

 5 to determine from the letter, there is a problem but there

 6 is no definitive answer as to whether or not it is safe to

 7 eat the fish. We still do not know what to tell the

 8 persons who fish there.

 9 Fishing will increase in the spring. There

10 are more people fishing there now, not as a sport, but as

11 a necessity. We would suggest that communications be made

12 for determination. Based on the 2009 health report that I

13 mentioned, we often wonder is there really any concern

14 about the health of any of our citizens. Thank you.

15 MR. SMITH: Mr. Owens, if I could just ask

16 you a clarifying question as to which neighborhood

17 association you represent?

18 MR. OWENS: Struggler's Hill, it starts at

19 10th and Washington.

20 MR. SMITH: Would you mind saying that to

21 the microphone just so she can make sure that it is part

22 of the record. Thank you.

23 MR. OWENS: It is called Struggler's Hill

24 Neighborhood Association.

25 MR. SMITH: Thank you.
 14

 1 MR. VOLLAND: My name is Craig Volland, I

 2 am the chair of the Air Quality Committee of the Kansas

 3 Chapter of the Sierra club, I am also a resident of Kansas

 4 City, Kansas. These comments are presented on behalf of

 5 Kansas Chapter of the Sierra Club. More extensive written

 6 comments will be provided by representatives of the

 7 National Sierra Club.

 8 I want to thank the U.S. EPA for scheduling

 9 this hearing at the request of local citizens in Kansas

10 City, Kansas because of we have two large fiberglass

11 insulation manufacturing plants, Certainteed and Owens

12 Corning, located within a mile of each other in the

13 Fairfax industrial district. However, this hearing came

14 about in part because of the long-running legal actions by

15 the National Air Toxics Task Force of the Sierra Club who

16 challenged, among other things, the use of particulate

17 matter measures as a surrogate for potentially volatile

18 heavy metal compounds.

19 It was only because the U.S. EPA finally

20 recognized the need to require specific measurements of

21 certain air pollutant metal emissions that they discovered

22 that Certainteed's K2 oxyfuel glass melting furnace was

23 emitting an unexpectedly large amount of hexavalent

24 chromium. Hexavalent chromium is a confirmed human

25 cancer-causing agent that can also cause asthma attacks
 15

 1 and damage to the nose and respiratory system in

 2 sufficient concentrations.

 3 This incident serves as the poster child as

 4 to why the EPA should minimize the use of surrogates in

 5 all related industries. It also demonstrates why the EPA

 6 has the duty under the MACT Review, Section 112(d)(6),

 7 both to look back and to have reductions now achievable

 8 and to look around at developments in the technology

 9 processes and work practices to update the rule to obtain

10 all appropriate emission reductions.

11 We agree with EPA's assessment that the

12 health risk from this category is certainly unacceptable.

13 However, for the following reasons, we are not convinced

14 that the new standard provides an ample margin of safety

15 for the health of the community. The Owens Corning plant,

16 which has one oxyfuel fuel glass melting furnace similar

17 to Certainteed's K2, also showed emission of hexavalent

18 chromium, though in much smaller quantities.

19 The most recent stack test at the Owens

20 Corning 70 north and 70 south furnaces showed that

21 hexavalent was 25 and 16 percent of total chromium

22 emissions respectively while their K5 oxyfuel fuel furnace

23 was 86 percent hexavalent similar to the 92 percent found

24 at Certainteed. This indicates that the higher

25 temperature oxyfuel design is part of the problem. This
 16

 1 is a special concern in KCK because Owens Corning has

 2 reported sizable air emissions of chromium to the toxic

 3 release inventory between 120 to 250 pounds annually since

 4 2001, apparently without checking to determine the type of

 5 chromium emitted. So it is likely that citizens near the

 6 plant have been exposed to higher hexavalent chromium

 7 emissions than was assumed in the health risk assessment

 8 conducted by the EPA. Even the EPA's limited analysis

 9 showed that Owens Corning plant adds about 25 percent to

10 the risk calculated from the Certainteed operation.

11 A subsequent test in Certainteed's K2

12 furnace showed a much lower emission of hexavalent

13 chromium. Nonetheless, the EPA did the right thing by

14 initiated direct monitoring of the air in Garland Park

15 just south of the plant. The health risk assessment is

16 not conservative for other reasons as well. The EPA's

17 model did not consider risks from other nearby sources of

18 industrial pollution that included a medical waste

19 incinerator, the General Motors assembly plant, and the

20 Quindaro Coal Fire Power Station. The area is also home

21 to a large numbers of diesel trucks and trains.

22 Some neighboring residents live on the

23 bluffs overlooking the Fairfax industrial district at an

24 elevation above the tops of some of the smoke stacks.

25 While EPA's model does take nearby terrain into account,
 17

 1 it makes the exposure calculation only at the center of

 2 the census tract. This would underestimate the risk to

 3 residents living on the edge of the track toward the

 4 stacks. Nor would the modeling adequately consider the

 5 risk to anyone working regularly just beyond the fence

 6 line of the Certainteed plant. The model does not fully

 7 take into account the lifetime of harm that can be caused

 8 when a child is exposed at an early age to toxic

 9 chemicals.

10 The EPA's own recent draft toxicological

11 review in 2010, discusses scientific research showing that

12 the cancer risk assessment for hexavalent chromium causes

13 mutagenic effects. The EPA should follow the

14 scientifically supported approach of the California Office

15 of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment and use age

16 dependent adjustment factors for all carcinogens including

17 hexavalent chromium.

18 Finally, it is obvious from the way these

19 hexavalent chromium emissions were only discovered after

20 these plants have operated for many years and from how the

21 numbers vary, that EPA needs to complete much more data

22 from the industry and we are glad to see that that is the

23 intent of this regulation. Thus we conclude that the

24 EPA's Heath Risk Assessment is not conservative and

25 additional analysis is needed.
 18

 1 Certainteed very recently shut down their

 2 K2 glass melting furnace until 2013 because they said

 3 because of unfavorable market conditions. Thus, the

 4 currently planned six months of monitoring at Garland Park

 5 is likely to capture no emissions at all from that furnace

 6 and to greatly underestimate the risk that would occur

 7 when K2 starts up again. The EPA should extend the

 8 monitoring program to at least six months after

 9 Certainteed's K2 furnace returns to service, considering

10 also that the risk in KCK falls disproportionately on

11 minorities and people who are economically disadvantaged.

12 Additional monitoring is a matter of fairness as well.

13 Regarding formaldehyde, an industry letter

14 in the docket indicated that Owens Corning had changed

15 their curing process to eliminate the emission of this

16 toxic pollutant. However, the data inputs in EPA's

17 modeling showed that the Owens Corning KC plant was among

18 the highest emitters. That is consistent with TRI, Toxic

19 Release Inventory data showing emission of some 60,000

20 pounds of formaldehyde in 2010 down from a peek 86,000 in

21 2005.

22 EPA needs to confirm when Owens Corning

23 made this change and that they actually did. The

24 inventory -- the industry letter also indicated that

25 Certainteed had not yet followed suit but was planning to
 19

 1 do so. This is important because of the aforementioned

 2 concentration of facilities in Kansas City, Kansas and the

 3 fact that formaldehyde is one of the risk drivers. It is

 4 critical that EPA follow through on their intention to

 5 regulate area sources in this category because the

 6 elimination of formaldehyde emissions may allow a plant to

 7 become technically a minor source while still posing a

 8 serious risk from highly dangerous pollutants like

 9 hexavalent chromium.

10 There appears to be some inconsistency in

11 the actual number or the chromium limit. On Page 72792 of

12 the narrative, it is given as 0.006 pounds per 1,000 tons

13 of gas pulled, while on Page 72801 it is 0.06 pounds per

14 1,000 tons of glass pulled, which is a difference of a

15 factor of ten. In the draft rule Section 3.182 it says

16 0.0006 pounds per ton, which matches one of those earlier

17 numbers but not the other so there is some kind of a typo

18 in there (sic).

19 We urge the EPA to set the strongest

20 chromium limits and to set robust limits on all other

21 toxic air pollutants to insure that the Kansas City

22 community receives the required ample level of protection

23 for our health. Thank you. And I am going to give her a

24 copy.

25 MR. FRUH: Thank you.
 20

 1 MR. SMITH: I might mention since Mr.

 2 Volland referenced the Chromium Air Study that EPA Region

 3 7 is initiating, those interested in learning more about

 4 that issue, we do have a poster outside of the room. This

 5 is not an issue that is directly related to this 

 6 rulemaking but is an issue of concern, obviously, to the folks

 7 living in this community. And Hugh McCullough -- Hugh,

 8 would you stand up, please, will be available during

 9 breaks and, of course, after the hearing if you would like

10 to learn more about that study or have questions

11 specifically related to that.

12 MS. FAIRCHILD: It was brought to my

13 attention that there were typos in the proposed rule as it

14 appeared in the Federal Register and this sometimes does

15 happen, especially when you have a lot of zeros, but the

16 standard is 0.06 pounds per 1,000 tons of glass pulled and

17 it is expressed a couple of different ways. One is in

18 that and then also it is expressed as 60 pounds per

19 million tons of glass pulled. 60 pounds per million tons

20 of glass is the same number as 0.06 pounds per 1,000 tons,

21 it is simply a matter of measuring the glass whether it is

22 1,000 tons or 1,000,000 tons. But we appreciate you

23 bringing that to our attention and we will fix that in the

24 final rule.

25 MR. FRUH: Do we have -- that was the
 21

 1 current list we had for people that had signed up. Is

 2 there anyone else that would like to make some -- make a

 3 comment. Susan is going to bring you the sign-up sheet so

 4 you can --

 5 MS. HUNTER: I did sign in. My name is

 6 Junette Hunter. And I am from Oak Grove Neighborhood

 7 Association and I am an active member in my community. I

 8 have lived in the community since 1990 and the air quality

 9 is terrible. And I am having problems with my oxygen. I

10 can go to sleep at night and wake up before I get up out

11 of the bed in the morning and my whole -- everything has

12 changed.

13 And I called the hospital, I go every so

14 often, maybe two or three months, to get prednisone to

15 open up my airways in my lungs because I have a problem

16 with that and it is not getting any better. I have had

17 family members who work down in Fairfax at places that I

18 know are bad and they have respiratory problems too and it

19 is not good at all.

20 The water that we drink, sometimes you get

21 up and it tastes terrible but you have to drink it if you

22 want to survive. I am concerned about myself, I am

23 concerned about my family members, I am concerned about

24 the people in our area. Every time we start getting

25 together trying to build something, say like for instance
 22

 1 getting together as a group believing in certain things

 2 and pulling together, once you start doing that, it seems

 3 like people start picking at you and pulling at you and

 4 trying to pull the plug out. I am not for that, I am just

 5 for the right -- I want things to happen down in that area

 6 so we can have the same opportunity as anybody else.

 7 And if you need me for anything else, just

 8 let me know, I will be willing and glad, more than

 9 willing, to help the cause because it is definitely needed

10 because that air quality is terrible down there, it really

11 is.

12 MR. FRUH: Thank you. Anyone else that

13 would like to make some comments?

14 MR. CRANE: Can I ask for a clarification?

15 I had signed up but I signed up for 7:00 this evening and

16 so I don't know how you want to work that.

17 MR. FRUH: We are very flexible, if you

18 would like to change your time and speak now we are more

19 than happy to accommodate.

20 MR. CRANE: That is more attractive than

21 waiting here five hours.

22 MR. FRUH: We do have all of your

23 information on one of the sheets?

24 MR. CRANE: Yes. I have a slide

25 presentation also. So I don't know if I can -- I am going
 23

 1 to over there and see if everyone can hear me, I will

 2 speak from there. My name is Angus Crane, and I am

 3 executive vice president and general counsel for the North

 4 American Insulation Manufacturers Association. And first

 5 I want to thank the EPA for the opportunity to present

 6 these oral comments and will be providing extensive

 7 written comments on the proposed rules on the appropriate

 8 due dates. I would like to -- I will go to my slide, I

 9 would like to just provide a little background on who

10 NAIMA is. NAIMA is the --

11 MR. FRUH: You may want to take the

12 wireless mic.

13 MR. CRANE: -- NAIMA is the North American

14 Insulation Manufacturers Association, and we represent all

15 the manufactures of fiberglass insulation throughout North

16 America and we have a variety of different purposes. Our

17 main function is to promote energy efficiency energy

18 savings through use of our products. We are also strong

19 advocates for responsible product stewardship and

20 promoting the safe production of our products.

21 I would like to give you some -- this is a

22 brief overview of what my comments are going to talk

23 about. Essentially, I would like to talk about the

24 benefits of our product. And all of you probably

25 experience directly or indirectly the benefits of our
 24

 1 products but maybe not fully realize it. But I would also

 2 like to talk about the economic benefits that our

 3 manufacturing plants provide and also emphasize that we

 4 are conscience and responsible stewards of our products

 5 and we are always interested in approving our

 6 manufacturing process and also the production of our

 7 products.

 8 I think that probably the best example of

 9 that is something that has occurred in the last five or

10 six years, and that is that fiberglass companies

11 throughout North America have voluntarily changed the

12 binders they use for bonded products. There are some

13 fiberglass products that are loose and don't have any kind

14 of binder. The ones that are, kind of, put together, have

15 some kind of a binder. Previously it was a formaldehyde

16 binder, which is a hazardous air pollutant, but the vast

17 majority of the industry, on a voluntary basis, have

18 switched to a non-folic binder. And within the next

19 couple of years, the entire industry will have made such a

20 switch. So that, I think, is indicative of the kind of

21 commitment that the companies have to improving

22 environmental quality where their plants are operating.

23 And I was pointing this out, the EPA

24 recognized that this was a significant environmentally

25 beneficial move on the part of the companies. The most
 25

 1 important thing about our insulation products is that they

 2 save energy, and every time energy is saved, that means

 3 that the energy it takes, that is, a lot of pollutants are

 4 emitted when energy is made. And so when we install our

 5 insulation product in a home, a building, a commercial

 6 building or an industrial facility, it saves the energy

 7 and therefore reduces pollutants. And so we also like to

 8 think of ourselves as partners with the EPA in helping to

 9 reduce pollution.

10 And, in fact, different parts of the EPA,

11 not this specific part that Susan works for but there are

12 other sections of the EPA where we are actively involved

13 and they work with us as partners as we promote the

14 benefits of insulation as saving energy. And what is

15 interesting, is that when you look at the spectrum of

16 things that are available to save energy, insulation is

17 always recognized as a number one option.

18 First of all, it is very cost effective,

19 second of all, once it is installed, it doesn't cost or it

20 doesn't take energy to save energy. You think about

21 energy efficiency light bulbs, they are still using

22 energy, once insulation is in place, it does it job but it

23 doesn't require energy and so it is helping to reduce

24 pollution. And also I think one of the main benefits that

25 we often -- I am going make this point, we recognize that
 26

 1 when we produce insulation that it creates pollutants and

 2 that it takes energy to do it, but fiberglass insulation

 3 saves 12 times as much energy per pound in its first year

 4 in use as the energy used to produce it. And we have got

 5 a lot of these different publications that indicate how

 6 much insulation saves as far as when you compare it to oil

 7 and things of that nature.

 8 The other thing that insulation does, and I

 9 think that we sometimes forget that because we have, kind

10 of, become accustomed to a world that is insulated. But

11 before insulation was around, homes didn't stay warm in

12 the winter and they didn't stay cool in the summer. But

13 insulation essentially has given comfort in a very

14 democratic way across the whole economic spectrum and it

15 enables us to stay warm in the winter and cool in the

16 summer.

17 And what I like is the medical professions

18 have recognized that there is a significant health

19 benefits for insulation. The British Medical Journal did

20 a major study in the hypothermia that was occurring

21 throughout the 1960s among the elderly. And the

22 recommendation that they had was not some kind of medicine

23 or something but that the homes be throughly insulated and

24 that would reduce and eliminate the hypothermia that was

25 being experienced by the elderly in Great Britain.
 27

 1 If you go back far enough in the 1940s, you

 2 go to modern medical counselors and they are talking about

 3 proper infant care, they talk about the importance of

 4 having your home insulated to protect your infant. So I

 5 think it is always important to recognize that insulation

 6 provides a health benefit to all the homes and buildings

 7 where it is used.

 8 The other thing, and I have mentioned this

 9 before, Park University has done several different studies

10 about the amount of pollution that is reduced through the

11 use of insulation. Keep in mind, that every time energy

12 is produced, it is creating pollutants but we are saving

13 energy, we are reducing the amount of that pollutant. The

14 amount of pollution that can be saved by insulation is

15 phenomenal. And what is even more exciting about it is

16 that when we do these studies, we recognize that there is

17 much room for growth there and we can continue to improve

18 the insulation that is installed, not only in homes, but

19 in industries and throughout the commercial buildings and

20 we can save even more energy and therefore reduce even

21 more pollution.

22 And the last thing that I would like to

23 talk about is just some of the other environmental

24 benefits that fiberglass has. We use a very large amount

25 of recycled content, glass cullet. We are the second
 28

 1 largest users of glass cullet in the United States and we

 2 keep track of the amount of glass cullet that we use. The

 3 other they thing that I want to emphasize is the amount of

 4 jobs the manufacturing facilities provide. We not only

 5 provide jobs in the manufacturing plants themselves, and

 6 they are high paying jobs with good benefits so they are

 7 the kind of quality jobs that seem to be disappearing

 8 throughout the United States, but we also -- once our

 9 product is made, we provide an estimated 225,000 other

10 jobs for those who install our products or are somehow

11 indirectly connected with the distribution or insulation

12 of our products. So we are providing an economic benefit

13 in the community where we live.

14 The other thing that is really nice is that

15 fiberglass is a domestic industry. The United States

16 provides for its entire market, we don't have to import,

17 we supply the insulation market in the United States.

18 What our goal is, is to keep this industry in the United

19 States, keep the jobs here and keep all the benefits that

20 come from those jobs in addition to the other jobs here in

21 the United States.

22 One last they thing that I want to share

23 with you is just the emphasis that we place on the product

24 stewardship program. That includes work practices on how

25 to handle the products, it includes an intensive exposure
 29

 1 data base and we have conducted an enormous amount of

 2 research on our products.

 3 And as a result of that, just recently the

 4 International Agency for Research on Cancer, the National

 5 Toxicology Program with the U.S. Government in the

 6 California Office of Environmental Health, has an

 7 assessment, has reevaluated their classification of

 8 fiberglass as a possible carcinogen and has determined

 9 that it is not a carcinogen. And so that cancer warning

10 label that was once on that product has been removed.

11 That is evidence and indication of the kind of product

12 stewardship that this industry is involved in. So I thank

13 you for the opportunity to share that kind of information.

14 Thank you.

15 MR. FRUH: Thank you for your comments.

16 Would you like to provide a copy of your --

17 MR. CRANE: Yes.

18 MR. FRUH: Ms. Quinn, L.V. Quinn?

19 MS. QUINN: I should have put my name a

20 little further down on the list. I just walked in I

21 didn't expect to be called so early. What do you need? I

22 live in Wyandotte County. Do you need my address?

23 MR. FRUH: Did you sign in?

24 MS. QUINN: Yes, I signed in.

25 MR. FRUH: That will be a part of the
 30

 1 record as well.

 2 MS. QUINN: I signed in.

 3 MR. FRUH: Or you can verbally provide that

 4 as well.

 5 MS. QUINN: Okay, My name is Linda Quinn, I

 6 do live in Wyandotte County. A couple of months ago --

 7 well, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I am

 8 employed with K State Research Extension. I work with

 9 North East KCK Healthy Kids. A number of months ago, I

10 attended EPA training on interior combatants, basically,

11 what is dangerous in the home. And it was a two --

12 three-day training session.

13 And during that period, I was wondering

14 what about the outside air because I work with young

15 people and part of my job is access to food, increasing

16 understanding of farming in the urban areas and also

17 working with childhood obesity. So I am coming up with

18 ideas and initiating different projects to help young

19 people in exercising and getting their -- building up

20 their immunities and everything else relating to young

21 children, which I think at that same particular time I

22 neglected to remember that my niece lives in an area

23 called Fairfax bluffs, she doesn't live there any longer

24 because there was truly a concern of the family that she

25 lived there.
 31

 1 My sister, when she lived there, whenever

 2 she picked her car up or was leaving the house, she had

 3 soot from the trees that was coming from -- and it was all

 4 black, and it was coming from -- I am assuming from the

 5 tar plant or a plant in the area that is pretty much up

 6 wind, I believe, from them. So they're getting a lot of

 7 that. But I really felt very concerned for my niece when

 8 she explained that she was cleaning the house and cleaning

 9 around window sills that there was soot all around the

10 window sills.

11 We have a -- he is five years old now, but

12 she had a four year-old son who started to develop effects

13 of asthma. Well, she has moved now and she doesn't live

14 there but I thought, why should those people still be left

15 behind or neglected? That is something that pretty much

16 stuck my mind. But they also have two pretty nice sized

17 playgrounds there and, of course, I want to see kids

18 playing because that is healthy and helps the childhood

19 obesity issue, but when you are out playing, you are

20 obviously breathing more and they are getting all of this

21 on the car and the window sill, what has going on inside

22 of the lungs of these young people?

23 And our community is full of different

24 types of diseases asthma, diabetes, childhood obesity,

25 those types of issues. And I just wanted to come and
 32

 1 since I have this opportunity to address this panel on

 2 that particular issue and if there is something that can

 3 be done about that. I don't know, the only thing I really

 4 can think of is closing the whole place but is there

 5 anyway that maybe an enclosed playground or something and

 6 not totally enclosed because I want young people out, I

 7 want them to feel the sunlight and experience -- and get

 8 some Vitamin D, and we are locked in too much as it is.

 9 So those are some of the things that I just

10 really wanted to address with this panel and let you know

11 that that is a huge concern. I believe the majority of

12 people that live in that complex are young parents with

13 very young children. And what makes me think about this

14 is, of course, it is partly my job, but we hear timelines

15 all the time, it is all the about the kids, if it is good

16 for the kids, what is good for the kids. Well, these are

17 our babies and we don't know where this is going to end.

18 I am wondering how long it will be before they start

19 having real lung issues or black lung disease or whatever

20 else. And that is an issue and I wanted to make sure I

21 had an opportunity to address.

22 MR. FRUH: Thank you. We appreciate your

23 comments.

24 MS. FAIRCHILD: May I ask a question?

25 MR. FRUH: Sure. We have a question from
 33

 1 Susan.

 2 MS. FAIRCHILD: Ms. Quinn, I just wanted to

 3 ask a clarifying question. You mentioned this was -- you

 4 said that we have a tar plant? Can you tell me what --

 5 MS. QUINN: I don't know if it is tar or

 6 coal, I just know there is this huge mountain of black

 7 stuff. I drove over there yesterday because I couldn't

 8 really identify it, I didn't know what it was. I hadn't

 9 been that far before so I drove around and I didn't see it

10 close or anything like that, it's just stacks of what

11 looked like tar but could be coal.

12 MS. FAIRCHILD: You don't know what it is

13 causing or what the damage is?

14 MS. QUINN: I really don't know.

15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It is the Quindaro Power

16 Plant.

17 MS. QUINN: Quindaro Power Plant.

18 MS. FAIRCHILD: Quindaro Power Plant. So

19 maybe that is coal processing, possibly, okay. Thank you.

20 MR. FRUH: We have a couple of other

21 speakers in the cue, a Marvin Robinson signed up for 3:20.

22 Is Mr. Robinson here?

23 MR. ROBINSON: Yes.

24 MR. FRUH: If you would like to speak now?

25 MR. ROBINSON: At this particular time I
 34

 1 want to apologize for being late and missing so much of

 2 the presentation but the little bit that I know about the

 3 effort here today when we -- well, we were basically

 4 trying to plan an 80th birthday party for my uncle so that

 5 time just ran away.

 6 As I understand everything, the EPA is

 7 getting ready to impose air regulations on some of the

 8 problems that we are having with the corridor, is that

 9 correct, with the Fairfax industrial district?

10 MS. FAIRCHILD: These rules would apply to

11 wool fiberglass manufactures.

12 MR. ROBINSON: Okay.

13 MS. FAIRCHILD: So this rule is not

14 addressing all manufactures in the area, it is addressing

15 wool fiberglass manufactures across the country, it would

16 be federal rule.

17 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. So that would affect

18 our community, right?

19 MS. FAIRCHILD: Yes, it would affect --

20 MR. ROBINSON: I saw you guys at Kiddie

21 Kollege on the chart out here in the hall. I did see that

22 and it is like not too far from where some of us live and

23 because of us having a little church and so forth. But

24 long story short it doesn't matter, the biggest thing is

25 when former president Bill Clinton signed the Executive
 35

 1 Order for Enviromental Justice, we were led to have

 2 believed that this was a great moment in time and then it

 3 turned out that the Environmental Justice Executive Order

 4 was without a spine. There were no regulatory tools or

 5 teeth or mandates to be able to do very much other than to

 6 provide information to allow industry and community more

 7 time to collect more information and collaborate and try

 8 to see how we can meet halfway in the middle.

 9 This is probably one of greatest moments in

10 the environment justice movement if, in fact, there are

11 tools, teeth and spine to adjust some of the huge

12 environmental inequities because I went to you all's

13 conference, do any of you work at Region 7? I see Region

14 7 on your sticker. But the cancer -- correction, the

15 toxic waste sites in the northeast area of Wyandotte

16 County was just overwhelming and we don't have enough of

17 that information online where we can share that with

18 residences.

19 When I went to the meeting at the EPA,

20 maybe 18 months ago, I was just overwhelmed that Jersey

21 Creek all up and down Parallel Parkway, marks of red all

22 up Fairfax industrial district and our community doesn't

23 have the information to the degree -- I am not saying

24 everybody, because that would be unfair and incorrect and

25 an out right lie, but so many people don't have the
 36

 1 information that toxic waste is there.

 2 And then we have a lot of people saying

 3 that so and so is sick and doesn't have much longer to go

 4 and sites were there and a lot of them are still there and

 5 if we at least have that information. And I told them

 6 that day that they have the Environmental Justice

 7 workshop, we need to have that made available online based

 8 on e-mails we could fast forward it to everybody so that

 9 people could have the information, kind of like it was

10 taken from 1994 or whenever former President Bill Clinton

11 did the Executive Order on Environmental Justice.

12 Here we are in 2012 and I am understanding

13 that some action is getting ready to take place and that

14 is a great moment in time. And when you go to do this,

15 you know, the people over in Missouri just got through

16 with Citadel and all the asbestos there. This has nothing

17 to do with your wool air emission, but we are without

18 legal teams to come to the table for the people that are

19 chronically, severely poor.

20 And so if you could take the material that

21 you have, because we used to have to just to get the

22 Freedom of Information Act, now that it is online and they

23 did it up there at the building but it doesn't mean they

24 have automatic justice at the headquarters. We need to be

25 able to disburse that amongst the community so they can
 37

 1 see, oh, PROSOCO is right there at 10th and Parallel

 2 Parkway, the Superfund site. Northwest Middle School

 3 where they prepared the children's lunch for School

 4 District 500 used to be a rail yard. They call it the

 5 Superfund site and it would just help make some of the

 6 barriers and the lack of information so much easier.

 7 So this really is a great moment in time

 8 and I was just so happy to hear that maybe somebody will

 9 be doing something to help us better understand why so

10 many people are coming up sick, dying or either dead. I

11 remember a long time ago I asked a guy who had been in the

12 Navy, because I am a Navy veteran, I asked him why would

13 you throw away your veteran status for crack and so forth?

14 And he said he loved crack because it helped him to

15 breathe and it helped him to forget all the problems of

16 just day-to-day, it erased everything and now he is just

17 so strung out there until, you know, I don't know that he

18 even knows who he is anymore.

19 So whatever you're doing today, hopefully

20 it you will decode it into plain simple language and then

21 put it online so that regular people that don't have high

22 levels of education, I don't have a degree, I have some

23 college, it could just help us so more much so that people

24 could see that we have toxic waste all over the northeast

25 area where we used to have a community that has just been
 38

 1 wiped out in front of our eyes. And I would just thank

 2 you so much for doing this.

 3 And then we need to figure out how do we

 4 get to a point of mediation so that we can go on to live

 5 in our community or is it that bad where everybody has to

 6 flee and then we don't have no where to go because Johnson

 7 County is not ours, and they don't want us up north. And

 8 I wouldn't want to be up in those people's communities --

 9 you know. And so if you could help us expand the

10 information base and decode your language and put this

11 stuff online so that people can see when you take an issue

12 out, these things here, which are regulations.

13 I haven't even had a chance to go over it.

14 I am sure that it would fall into the same category that

15 the EPA always does, too complicated for the regular mind

16 to not know without having a phone number you can call and

17 get a decoding of the language and what does this mean.

18 But what do we do with all the people that are dead

19 already, their families are still in the area, that have

20 died of respiratory cancer, some of them never even

21 smoked? A lot of people with pancreatic cancer they never

22 were cured because they are smokers and they're not here,

23 they still have families.

24 And our little church is right behind

25 Kiddie Kollege on the wall and I bet we only have like 20
 39

 1 or 30 people that show up on a Sunday basis. But if my

 2 uncle who is my paster had known that they was going to

 3 have Kiddie Kollege up on the wall way down at

 4 Certainteed, he would have found a way to come into some

 5 of the stuff that we tried to do with other economy

 6 chromium and other types of waste sites maybe having a

 7 bearing even on the church in 2012, and it is just --

 8 thank you.

 9 Plus, I also work with the Quindaro -- it

10 is 2012, so almost 25 years come May based on the grace

11 and mercy of God. So thank you so much.

12 MR. FRUH: One question, you mentioned a

13 meeting, an EPA meeting or conference that you attended?

14 MR. ROBINSON: It was an Enviromental

15 Justice workshop.

16 MR. FRUH: Okay.

17 MR. ROBINSON: And it was really -- it was

18 an incredible meeting but it was poorly attended because

19 when we go to do -- we learn what we learn up here, this

20 should have been like mammoth people there because I am

21 like in self-deposition, I think we always do better when

22 people can come and get the information and decode it and

23 uncode and interpret it for themselves, just like they

24 should have had to call the fire marshal too because there

25 should have been so many people there, you know, like
 40

 1 occupying the EPA, because I was just overwhelmed with the

 2 information and I though, oh, God where is everybody at.

 3 MR. FRUH: I just wanted to -- for the

 4 record.

 5 MR. ROBINSON: Right.

 6 MR. FRUH: -- you referenced that the --

 7 MR. ROBINSON: It was at 5th and Minnesota.

 8 MR. SMITH: And there are representatives

 9 from our Environmental Justice program --

10 MR. ROBINSON: Those three levels, yes, who

11 work with this. Thank you.

12 MR. FRUH: Thank you. Elnora Jefferson,

13 Elnora?

14 MS. JEFFERSON: Yes.

15 MR. FRUH: Ms. Jefferson? Would you like

16 to come forward.

17 MS. JEFFERSON: No, not yet.

18 MR. FRUH: Not yet. I am sorry, you would

19 like --

20 MS. JEFFERSON: I still need some time to

21 prepare my statement.

22 MR. FRUH: To prepare?

23 MS. JEFFERSON: Yes.

24 MR. FRUH: We currently have -- we have no

25 other speakers. If anyone from the audience would like to
 41

 1 add something to the dialogue? For the record please

 2 state your name.

 3 MS WHITE: My name is Marilyn White,

 4 M-A-R-I-L-Y-N, White, and I live presently at 614

 5 Washington Boulevard. But in days past I used to live up

 6 on the hill off -- right off North 5th Street. And during

 7 my days of living there, I always had to pass through 5th

 8 Street. And by doing that, we would have to go -- that

 9 was scare, John Garland Park, I don't know if you are

10 familiar with that, but you should be.

11 And for years, you know, most people just

12 take for granted that wherever they live is okay, and I

13 did that. You know, we were -- there were shortcomings

14 and whatever, some streets where not paved and whatever,

15 but all of those years while I lived off North 5th Street

16 by John Garland Park, I never knew that John Garland Park

17 was and area where there had been some kind of hazardous

18 material gathered there and it had been paved over

19 eventually and deemed fairly safe for people to live

20 around.

21 And during some investigation of this

22 matter, it came to light that some people in the

23 neighborhood wanted to use John Garland Park as a housing

24 project or something. Anyway, it had got a clay covering

25 that is supposed to keep the hazardous gases and
 42

 1 everything -- and also has -- I don't know what you call

 2 them, pipes or little pipes that help gas escape and not

 3 build up too much so that it might explode. That is what

 4 really got me, that the pipes where there to keep the gas

 5 from building up to the point where it would explode and

 6 dislodge the cap.

 7 But I was involved in settling a little

 8 dispute about whether or not John Garland Park could be

 9 utilized as a park for the community or even -- you know,

10 where homes might be built, and got a lot of flack about

11 it, because naturally I was against it and I could not

12 understand why the government would not come to the aid of

13 the people who were trying to establish the larger

14 community that John Garland Park was not an asset to the

15 community.

16 It was there a long time and it was named

17 after a very prominent black couple and I guess maybe that

18 is why some of them thought it was okay. Because it is my

19 understanding -- it was my understanding then, that the

20 gas was beginning to, kind of, seep out into the larger

21 community and people just were not -- they were not tuned

22 in to the fact that possibly, just possibly, this was an

23 area that they should be, kind of, asking the government

24 to either clarify or reclarify the fact that whether John

25 Garland Park was useful or non-useful.
 43

 1 To this day nothing has been done about

 2 John Garland Park. I have lived here in Kansas City,

 3 Kansas, which was a hazardous place -- is, Quindaro

 4 Township, but I have lived in this area all of my life.

 5 And I don't want to tell you how old I am, but it has been

 6 a long time. And I can't understand why these -- some

 7 citizens are can never take facts and, kind of, use them

 8 to their own benefit. And others would want to take them

 9 and use them for a monetary gain. And the people in

10 charge would not come forward and say you can't do that,

11 the government entity say, you come forth and say, no, you

12 can't do that because of the fact that this is not a good

13 habitat for humanity to live in.

14 So sometimes, you know, I don't have very

15 much faith in government because I think government works

16 most times counter productive to the good will of people.

17 And for that, some people always -- at least a lot of

18 people, not everybody, kind of believes things that are

19 not good for them. If people, possibly like you, come and

20 say, oh, yeah, this good and we have done this and we have

21 studied this and we put this in place to do that but still

22 it is really -- I get very upset when government works

23 against the health and welfare of the people because this

24 park has been, kind of, like a thorn in peoples' sides for

25 as long as I can remember.
 44

 1 And so people say that it is okay, people

 2 that live around it say it is okay. Other people I know

 3 say it is not okay but they will go along with things just

 4 to make them keep the peace, whatever the peace is. And

 5 that is basically what I am interested in getting out to

 6 you is that this park is there, it has still got those

 7 little pipes and wells and stuff that is still supposed to

 8 be helping with gas, stay to the point where it won't

 9 possibly explode or whatever, whatever, whatever. And

10 most of those entities like John Garland Park seem to end

11 up in neighborhoods where people are less well off than

12 others, and why is that?

13 MR. SMITH: Ms. White, I just want to make

14 sure that you are aware that Region 7 does have an effort

15 with Garland Park going on for use and revitalization and

16 I would be glad to put you in touch with those folks to

17 discuss the environmental issues associated with it and

18 also the reuse planning that is going on as part of that.

19 It is not directly related to this issue at hand related

20 to fiberglass manufacturing.

21 MS WHITE: I know. And I am sorry to

22 inject my little things into your program but it is part

23 of that area because John Garland Park is not far from

24 Fairfax.

25 MR. SMITH: It is certainly part of the
 45

 1 community and I would be glad to put you in contact with

 2 them, that is an important issue and we do have work

 3 ongoing with that particular area and that particular

 4 issue in particular. So I would be glad to put you in

 5 contact with the appropriate person.

 6 MS WHITE: I would appreciate that. I

 7 think my name is on -- I signed in.

 8 MR. FRUH: Thank you for bringing it,

 9 making it, making people here in this room aware and it

10 will be a part of this record as well.

11 MS WHITE: Thank you.

12 MR. FRUH: Let's see, we are -- I don't

13 have anyone else signed up in the current time slots. If

14 anyone in the audience would like to come forward and

15 speak, add something to the record, we welcome that. If

16 there is no one that wants to speak currently, Ms.

17 Jefferson?

18 MS. JEFFERSON: Yes.

19 MR. FRUH: We are not trying to rush you at

20 all. As a matter of fact, I was going to -- we can take a

21 break and reconvene but if you are ready?

22 MS. JEFFERSON: Well, I am going to do this

23 on the fly, so to speak. And so if I need another five

24 minutes, I will just sign up again. At the risk of being

25 the only person in the audience, other than yourself, I
 46

 1 thought I would at least give it a whirl. My name is

 2 Elnora Jefferson and I am President of the Oak Grove

 3 Neighborhood Association. The Oak Grove Neighborhood is

 4 the most northeast situated neighborhood in Wyandotte

 5 County. And, in fact, from my house I see not only the

 6 John Garland park but I the see Fairfax industrial

 7 complex, I see the coal-fired plants and so I am up close

 8 and personal.

 9 The -- I understand that this is a public

10 hearing on the new emissions rule. And I also understand

11 that the one thing that I need to be sure to convey is

12 what I -- and I am going to use "I" loosely, when I say

13 "I", I am speaking really on behalf of "my neighborhood"

14 would like to see to see from the EPA in this regard. And

15 so I will address that first.

16 Then my second movement on this public

17 speaking opportunity would be on the subject of

18 environmental justice. So as far as the new rule is

19 concerned, I have attempted to bone-up somewhat on what it

20 means, what we are doing, and I still have a long way to

21 go to get to a level of understanding that perhaps you

22 have, or that you may have, so that I am able to best

23 represent my neighborhood's interest by asking the right

24 questions and knowing when I have received the

25 understanding that I need to receive.
 47

 1 So understanding that there are timelines

 2 by which things are published in a register and so on and

 3 so forth and moving all of that legally that is set in

 4 place to make sure I get -- that there is an end point at

 5 which anyone arrives at at a certain time. I would say

 6 that what the EPA could do, and I would suggest not only

 7 in this instance, but that whomever can, relay this

 8 information to the head of the EPA, Region 7, is to make

 9 these types of scenarios, should another one occur, more

10 timely available to a community and to give the community

11 an opportunity to get educated about the subject matter.

12 While I don't know of any chemist who live

13 in my neighborhood, I do know that we did go to big

14 schools and we can, over time, understand that. And not

15 that you don't think that we could, I don't want to infer

16 that. But that is the suggestion that I have. And that

17 is a suggestion that I have for even after this meeting,

18 that Region 7 take an opportunity to make available to the

19 community, which they have for me, certain copies. Let's

20 advertise it in the local paper, let's put it on the

21 internet, and let's give anyone the opportunity to be able

22 to come to understand what we are talking about.

23 Now, the reason that that is important is

24 because just like the gentleman from the association who

25 was here talking, I don't know of anyone, despite the fact
 48

 1 that this hexavalent chromium is a hazard, a carcinogen to

 2 human heath, I don't anyone who would say let's shut down

 3 Fairfax, let's shut down Owens Corning, let's shut down

 4 everything. That is not where we are going because we

 5 understand everyone needs jobs, opportunities.

 6 We would like to have in our area, in our

 7 northeast community, more access to those jobs, but then

 8 that is something later on in the Environment Justice

 9 piece. But having said all of that, I would be a

10 proponent or advocate to shut it down if the industries

11 cannot, and will not, produce their goods and services in

12 a clean and self-environmental conscience manner. I think

13 we are fortunate that we have an EPA with the muscle to be

14 able to monitor and enforce rules and regulations.

15 And maybe this a little naivety upon my

16 part because I understand power and power structures as

17 well. I would think that it would be the industry itself

18 that would have on-site, and as part of their payroll, the

19 chemists and scientists and whatever else is needed in

20 order to produce a safe product. If I am a tiddly-wink

21 manufacturer and I know I am going to use chromium in my

22 tiddly-wink manufacturing process. It seems to me to get

23 my business license or whatever, I should have on site

24 anyone and everyone that I need to ensure the chromium 6

25 from the tiddly-wink manufacturing process does not escape
 49

 1 and cause possible harm.

 2 So having said that, let me get to some

 3 other specifics. Number one was to hold as soon as

 4 possible then, this meeting to not only go over the depth

 5 of technicalities in this new rule, but also give people

 6 an opportunity to give considerable thought and logical

 7 input. The other questions I have from EPA would be, one,

 8 does EPA know and ensure that this wool fiberglass

 9 industry in Fairfax has a process for which to identify

10 and report all the pollutant being emitted? And perhaps

11 that is in the register. But that is the question that I

12 have -- or in the new rule.

13 Does EPA have in place something to

14 determine how long the hexavalent chromium was emitted

15 prior to being reported in November of 2010? And if not,

16 then why? Does EPA have a method of knowing if the

17 chromium 6 has been found in here, by, near -- by any

18 soils or water samples? The little research that I did in

19 it, this was the Erin Brockovich on the chromium 6 in the

20 water, so that is the question that I have. Does EPA know

21 at what point in time the production process emits the

22 most pollutants?

23 It is my understanding that in the test of

24 November 2010, there was certain manufacturing down time

25 periods that were not in addition to that. That in
 50

 1 September on the retest, there were different reasons that

 2 the manufacturing process had down time. So how does all

 3 of that play? And the test that we had -- the test that

 4 they had November 2010, how does it meet -- is it on the

 5 same merit, is it on the same standard? And what do you

 6 -- what are you using to justify the differences?

 7 And the reason that it is important, is

 8 because in November 2010, we had a high level of

 9 emissions, and in September of 2011, we have considerably

10 less. And I know the EPA Region 7 is aware of that as

11 well but that is still a good question for me.

12 MR. FRUH: Very good question at that.

13 MS. JEFFERSON: Thank you. And then the

14 other thing is that perhaps I am missing something here,

15 the EPA has gone through a lot of expense in order to

16 install the air monitoring equipment on the John Garland

17 Park in order to ascertain the validity of these tests --

18 the stack test. But now but Certainteed having retired

19 one of the furnaces for 2013, is the equipment still

20 there? And if it is still there, why is it still there?

21 And what is the cost effectiveness of that? What are we

22 looking to determine, to gain from that? And so that is a

23 question that I have.

24 Another question is, does EPA know the

25 short and long-term risks of the purported pollutants our
 51

 1 children and adults and the elderly? And I believe that

 2 the Sierra Club just mentioned that as well. The other

 3 thing that I would like to have, and maybe this is not

 4 under EPA's responsibilities, but certainly, if it is not

 5 directly, one thing I wanted to put on the record is that

 6 I am hoping that the EPA also feels an obligation to

 7 indirectly use its influence to get these things that we

 8 need, that we all need, not just in the northeast

 9 neighborhood but the communities in -- the Kansas

10 communities. What responsibilities do our local

11 industries have in educating and sharing with the

12 community on right-to-know issues? That is the question

13 that I would have.

14 And then another question is, what are the

15 penalties for not meeting the established standards? Now,

16 I know the rule -- I guess I know there is no rule in

17 place, there is no violation that has existed because

18 there was nothing against which Certainteed violated, this

19 is it, so this is like starting from square one. So this

20 question is -- would be, on a futuristic basis, what

21 penalties would exist for that?

22 Okay, let's see, I have some additional

23 questions. The -- I know that we -- we do have in our

24 community -- our community is -- this is interesting to

25 me, in the harmony of justice in Kansas City, it is
 52

 1 talking about diversity. My neighborhood is extremely

 2 diverse and it is probably not unlike a lot of urban

 3 neighborhoods as we move forward in age, gender, in

 4 language, in income levels, in physical abilities, in

 5 education, all of that, anything that you can think of,

 6 that is what we have in this neighborhood.

 7 While some people probably would not want

 8 to come visit me after dark because of the perception and

 9 what they think, it really is a land of opportunity. And

10 if I do nothing else, if I am able to -- as a result of

11 this new rule, as of result of you being in here in Kansas

12 City, as a result of your offering me and others in our

13 community an opportunity to talk, I would really like to

14 touch your heart and the heart of people here who are with

15 the U.G. or the State or whomever that they really

16 represent here, and say we are a land of opportunity.

17 And if you will allow us to have that

18 opportunity live and to breathe and to work, you would be

19 surprised. You would come and visit me in five or ten

20 years just because it would actually reflect some of these

21 jargons and phrase words we hear about sustainable

22 communities and cost reduction energy and all of this

23 stuff. I am looking for a way to bring all of this

24 rhetoric to some kind of practical plan.

25 Okay, having said that, I will get down off
 53

 1 of that soap box, okay. Let's see, we talked about the

 2 health effects. Oh, yes, I believe the Sierra Club

 3 mentioned this as well, the need to rerun the models so

 4 that you get a full picture of the effects of the

 5 pollutants on the bluffs.

 6 MR. FRUH: When you say rerun the models --

 7 MS. JEFFERSON: It is my understanding that

 8 the models are going to the center, they're not --

 9 MR. FRUH: Okay.

10 MS. JEFFERSON: -- along with that, it is

11 my understanding that the air monitoring equipment itself

12 is not within the near proximity of Fairfax or the

13 neighborhood. And I don't know how many miles, maybe you

14 do, Mr. Smith, and where that is, but I live, as I say, on

15 the southern parameter of John Garland, very close to

16 that. The air monitoring equipment is at 10th and State

17 near the Gate's BBQ. And maybe that -- is that -- that

18 obviously has to be the --

19 MR. SMITH: Again, just to clarify, I think

20 we would be glad to talk in more detail about the air

21 monitoring efforts after or on the side but it is not

22 directly related to this. I can tell you that the air

23 monitors are located in the Garland Park area.

24 MS. JEFFERSON: Not the new one.

25 MR. SMITH: The new monitors are in the
 54

 1 Garland Park area, there is existing monitoring that is

 2 going on at 10th and State.

 3 MS. JEFFERSON: Okay. So are you saying to

 4 me that prior to your installation of the new monitors, as

 5 a result of this chromium 6, there were monitors already

 6 in John Garland Park for this?

 7 MR. SMITH: Yes and no, but it would

 8 probably be better to talk about that on the side --

 9 MS. JEFFERSON: Okay.

10 MR. SMITH: -- the details.

11 MS. JEFFERSON: Okay. And just let it show

12 for the record then that I do have a question as to

13 whether or not there is adequate, ongoing monitoring of

14 pollutants, possible pollutants, coming from the Fairfax

15 industrial plants.

16 MR. FRUH: Okay. Thank you.

17 MS. JEFFERSON: Okay. I believe, like I

18 said, just off the cuff, that I have addressed everything

19 that I wanted to address on that rule and hopefully we

20 will have the opportunity to become more educated about

21 that.

22 The other piece that I wanted to address

23 was the environment injustice piece. I am not one to

24 throw environmental injustice -- that term around loosely

25 because quite frankly, then you have to read the words and
 55

 1 it is like any piece of law and legislation, it depends on

 2 the interpretation and a lot of other things. But

 3 considering this and in listening to the testimony, I

 4 would like for you to consider too whether or not the Oak

 5 Grove community and the northeast area neighborhoods,

 6 which just as people have said, are predominantly minority

 7 communities, have really been the subject over time of

 8 environmental unjust issues.

 9 Environment injustice is one component, I

10 would also add that our neighborhood has also been

11 affected by external forces, external forces be they laws,

12 rules and regulations. And I will tell you that most of

13 these laws and rules and regulations have come at -- along

14 with the thinking that they're going to improve the

15 situation that has happened when there was slavery. And

16 when people who looked like me were denied certain

17 opportunities, education opportunities, housing

18 opportunities and so forth and so on.

19 So we have an ushering in of all kinds of

20 rules and new laws in the '50s and in the '60s and in the

21 '70s. And these laws and rules and regulations not

22 necessarily did the right thing. Either because the

23 opportunity presented themselves and we as a culture of

24 people didn't realize what we were doing when we left and

25 abandoned some of our properties, or whether some of these
 56

 1 laws installed and helped to construct those things that

 2 are currently in place that have acted not to improve, but

 3 to keep the same level of low income, the same level of

 4 low attainment and the same level of low quality of life.

 5 Prior to 1995, something like that, my

 6 career was with a corporate -- with AT&T, and I would,

 7 like a lot of other people, benefit from the laws that

 8 allowed me to work and be educated and go where I wanted

 9 to go. In returning to look after my mom and take care of

10 her, all of a sudden it hit me, where was Mr. Carter's

11 house? And where was this? And where was that? Where in

12 the world -- who put this landfill right here? So having

13 said that, I spent quite a few -- a number of years in my

14 community trying to do what I can, along with others, to

15 make a difference because it is not impossible to do.

16 The demographics, if you were to look at

17 them, and I don't know if you have, the demographics in

18 those areas are used by literally everybody to get every

19 kind of federal funding. Even this rule, this new rule,

20 is the result and effort that, oh, this something that we

21 really need to address because we have this community that

22 that has this demographic. Why of course we have those

23 demographics. But instead of the people themselves being

24 able to directly benefit from what those demographics

25 bring in terms of tax-payer money or private money,
 57

 1 private funding --

 2 MR. MABION: Amen.

 3 MS. JEFFERSON: What?

 4 MR. MABION: I am just saying, Amen.

 5 MS. JEFFERSON: Oh. What we have is that

 6 we have agencies and intermediary organizations that get

 7 that money and dole it -- maybe and dole it our maybe not.

 8 So I can tell you for a fact that absolutely nothing,

 9 other than my neighbor who lives two doors from me who is

10 just now building, adding on to his house, has a three-car

11 garage. And I think that it is absolutely wonderful

12 because he and his family stayed there and made it work.

13 Other than that, there has literally been

14 no improvement in that community since 1995, at least

15 until now. So we are looking at a new rule because we

16 have chromium, the hexavalent chromium coming from

17 Certainteed or whatever that is going to end, that is

18 going to be something. Prior to that, we had the

19 emissions from the coal-fired plant and I have asked, and

20 maybe no body wants to hear this, but I am going to put it

21 on the record, we do have the particulate matter, we have

22 the sulfer oxide, we have the nitrous oxide because we

23 don't have scrubbers on the coal fire plant, those plants

24 are --

25 MR. FRUH: The agency just promulgated a
 58

 1 rule that will change that outcome, actually.

 2 MS. JEFFERSON: Now, it is very difficult

 3 because we in Kansas City, Kansas, myself, I turn on the

 4 switch as a result of that coal burning in that plant. I

 5 won't go to work in darkness or anything like that. So --

 6 but anyway, we still have those emissions that are added

 7 maybe with this hexavalent chromium and all of these

 8 particulate matters and so on.

 9 And then we have the methane coming from

10 the John Garland Park. I also want to put on the record

11 that David Doyle has been a wonderful asset for us in

12 developing, helping us to develop the reuse development

13 plan, so I want you to know, and I would want everyone to

14 know. Nevertheless, we still have methane coming up out

15 of that park. It was supposed to be a landfill that had

16 gone dormant after so many years.

17 The landfill was constructed in 1972 and

18 the Unified Government just spend oodles and oodles of

19 money to put in additional vents to vent the methane gas

20 because the landfill did not go dormant, it is still doing

21 something. So that is going to be up in this air. Then

22 if that wasn't enough, because in the meantime we are

23 still trying to wake up in the morning and have a good cup

24 of coffee, just trying to do things that everybody else

25 wants to do.
 59

 1 Then we have the stair cycle waste --

 2 medical wastes incinerator that they didn't know that they

 3 were burning body parts. So while we are trying to do all

 4 of that, then whatever that is in addition to the medical

 5 waste that is going up in the air.

 6 Now, I not being scientifically trained or

 7 anything, I don't have to be, but I am wondering, what is

 8 going on in the environmental injustice arena? What is

 9 going on when a developer wants to build homes and starves

10 the market because of all of this stuff that is going on?

11 Can I go or you go to -- can we get any kind of funding

12 for our ground fill, for John Garland Park? All of these

13 things have a detrimental effect on that neighborhood.

14 And so pretty soon the people are bombarded

15 by all of these negative things that they hear and so how

16 do they feel? Now, they need jobs, you know, there are

17 certain things not going right in their lives and so forth

18 and so on, and we are seeing it really big time now

19 because we are seeing the middle class really touched by

20 this economic downturn. Well, that is new poverty, where

21 I live, that is old poverty, and it has existed for quite

22 a while. Add all of these factors, would you want to live

23 in my neighborhood? Would you want to live in my

24 neighborhood? Would you want not to have the opportunity

25 to have adequate transportation for people who cannot get
 60

 1 around? Because that is what happened.

 2 While we are doing all of that, we also

 3 have on the local level these codes, these laws that say

 4 my house has to be painted within so many years, it says

 5 that if I don't have it painted I will be fined. I have

 6 to make sure that my grass is no longer than three or four

 7 inches high because if it is over three of four inches

 8 high, I am going to be fined for that.

 9 So I am marching down to the court house to

10 pay money for a fine or fee but I haven't even been able

11 not to hear myself coughing because I don't know what is

12 going on in the air. Now, I went way off a ways but I

13 think you have what I am trying to say. So environmental

14 justice, I think, is an issue. I have said all I have to

15 say. I am just throwing it out, I think that

16 environmental injustice is the issue.

17 Along with enviromental injustice being the

18 issue, I came up on a website where I saw President Obama,

19 I guess, maybe it wasn't him, it was Bill Clinton.

20 Anyway, there was such a thing called the Federal

21 Interagency Working on Environmental Justice. And if I

22 understand that correctly, what that means is not only

23 you, the EPA, but HUD, the Department of Labor, the

24 Department of Energy, the Department of Transportation,

25 all are supposed to address the rules and regulations and
 61

 1 what is out there in order to make sure that communities

 2 like mine, that first of all, communities don't turn into

 3 communities like mine. And then hopefully, there is

 4 something in there where communities like mine can come

 5 up, because of all of this, because of these new rules and

 6 regulations.

 7 So what do I want from the EPA? I want the

 8 EPA to use its influence and its muscle to see that Oak

 9 Grove and the Northeast neighborhood communities have what

10 is needed at the table in order to find out are we going

11 stay there? And if we stay there, we know what we need.

12 Help us provide the money and the people and the other

13 resources that we need to come up. We no longer want to

14 be down on our knees, down on the ground trying to come up

15 under other circumstances and situations be it chromium 6

16 from the plant, be it a formaldehyde truck that ran into a

17 bridge here at 10th Street, none of that, we don't want to

18 do that, so that is what I would like the EPA to do.

19 MR. FRUH: Thank you.

20 MS. JEFFERSON: I have something else. By

21 doing that, what we really need, let's go back to this

22 education and communication information exchange, okay.

23 And if you need to take a break just tell me.

24 MR. FRUH: Well, in fairness to all to the

25 other speakers if you think --
 62

 1 MS. JEFFERSON: Do you want me to sign up

 2 again?

 3 MR. FRUH: -- you would -- maybe we could

 4 draw it to a conclusion over the next five minutes, would

 5 that be okay?

 6 MS. JEFFERSON: Well, I do need to tell you

 7 -- I don't know. I guess if we -- I need for you to

 8 really take seriously these things, there are two things.

 9 I think I can wrap up the two things, okay. I would like

10 for you to use your muscle to implement, to consider and

11 then come to the -- come to the decision -- to the

12 agreement like I have, that what you need to do is

13 implement SEPs and SEP-types of solutions to my

14 neighborhood and our northeast community, those are

15 supplemental, environmental projects.

16 Okay, I don't know where you are with the

17 BPU and the fees and the fines, I don't know where you are

18 going to go with Certainteed and what you are going to do

19 there and where all of this is going end, but I would like

20 you to strongly consider whether or not you have an

21 interest and the ability, as a result of this Certainteed

22 thing, to implement these supplemental projects,

23 environmental projects.

24 Now, what will that do? That means that

25 any kind of fees or fines or money that is being spent is
 63

 1 not going to go to anybody else but to the people who live

 2 in that area for the projects that they need. We need to

 3 close our digital divide, we need to send information to

 4 people by paper, by electronic means, we need to get an

 5 approval packet. We need to elevate the awareness and the

 6 education so people know why chromium 6 is bad.

 7 I can go up and down the streets all day

 8 long and say I was up here at the EPA, chromium 6 is bad.

 9 And they will look at me and say, so what. Okay, so that

10 is what -- so those SEPs, I am sure you got that down,

11 SEPs, those are extremely important. And along with those

12 SEPs, I would like -- and I will say this also, the

13 Fairfax industrial district with -- Chuck has been -- has

14 worked with us in our neighborhood on various projects.

15 We are wanting to install a tilapia fishery

16 and in talking with Chuck and Fairfax industrial, we are

17 comfortable that we have the beginning of a partnership.

18 I would like the EPA to help foster that partnership, not

19 only for us, but for my other northeast communities,

20 strugglers Hill, Parkwood Colony, Fowler Park, we have

21 several, and we have the vehicle where we can retain those

22 assets, being money or people, whatever we know, what we

23 need to do with that.

24 But I do have something specific, bear with

25 me while I find it here and then I will end. One of our
 64

 1 neighborhoods has a program called the Parkwood Learn to

 2 Earn, and that is for a certain group of people from 12 to

 3 -- I want to say, 14. And what happens with these kids is

 4 that they actually get a chance go to certain places,

 5 let's say they will go to Certainteed because that is

 6 going to be cleaned up.

 7 All right, they will go to Certainteed,

 8 they will learn to do some kind of job, they will actually

 9 also earn a little bit of a stipend. At the end of this

10 program, and they have done this for 14 or 15 years, the

11 kids get a check. They feel so good about what they have

12 done and we adults feel good about what they have done.

13 So I need for Fairfax to really help us in that. We need

14 transportation and whatever else it is to put you in touch

15 with that president. And the EPA can help do that because

16 you have got the muscle and you have the opportunity to do

17 that.

18 We have something else called J4 Enterprise

19 where we have the urban farm. We have a gentleman here --

20 a senior who has 80 acres of property. And I am pretty

21 sure that in place there is some type of a youth camp, a

22 youth work camp for these youth, that is what we need,

23 that is something that we need as far as money and people

24 resources, the tilapia fish, I mentioned that, a curb and

25 sidewalk program. Now, we have been talking to Public
 65

 1 Works about that.

 2 Now, the EPA is to say for communities and

 3 pour sidewalks and so forth and so on, help us get that

 4 off the ground so we can teach, not only our youth, not

 5 just from the workforce partnership from 18 to 24, our

 6 youth and adults how to construct, pour sidewalks and

 7 curbs and so forth and get them through some kind of a

 8 training. And we have got streets that need that. So

 9 help us do that, help us do that.

10 A call center, a virtual call center. I

11 have a firm belief that is something that could be in the

12 neighborhood. Cerner and other companies, they have

13 raised -- they have elevated the quality of living in

14 India and in some of these other third-world countries, if

15 they can do it overseas, certainly they can do it here and

16 you all can help with that. You use a call center, you

17 don't answer all of your calls, okay. Help us get that

18 started in our neighborhood so you can offload some of

19 that traffic so people can work right in the neighborhood

20 where they live.

21 Language classes, I told you our

22 neighborhood is diverse, I need to know Spanish, I need to

23 know English, I need to know French, I need to know

24 Burmese, I need to know Somalian in order to be able to

25 talk to these people. Can you imagine what that is like,
 66

 1 you know, how can I tell them about Chromium 6? I don't

 2 even know how to say hello.

 3 And I guess I will end by saying, you know,

 4 we can for sure put on gas masks and go to the media and

 5 say this is where we are living and how we are living and

 6 stuff like that. But you know, that is just going to get

 7 the media to sell more papers, which is probably not a bad

 8 thing, we need, you know, a good publication. But, you

 9 know what I am saying. Think of all the money that goes

10 to the political campaigns, they keep talking about that,

11 I just think that perhaps a majority of that money goes to

12 media. So I don't want to have to fund that, I don't mind

13 the media, but I don't want to fund that with the gas mask

14 thing.

15 But I do want you to tell me, and I want

16 you to remember me, I want you to remember what I said, I

17 want you to take what I said earnestly as well as what the

18 other people have said, let's come to a solution, this is

19 hopefully what I brought to you today. I could have

20 talked all day about something but I brought you some

21 solutions. And so will you meet me and meet the others

22 halfway so that we can rectify this situation, keep

23 Fairfax up and running and as well keep our neighborhoods,

24 bring them up so that they can run too? Thank you.

25 MR. FRUH: Thank you, very much. You have
 67

 1 raised many very good social issues. I wish I could say

 2 that we would be able to address all of that in this one

 3 rulemaking but you have brought awareness and it will be

 4 in the record. So thank you.

 5 MS. JEFFERSON: And I will ask Mr. Smith,

 6 let me know when we can come and talk to Mr. Brooks, okay?

 7 MR. SMITH: Okay.

 8 MR. FRUH: All right. It is just a few

 9 minutes before 4:00. We have been at this a couple of

10 hours almost now. What I would like to propose is maybe

11 take a short break, maybe 20 minutes to a quarter after

12 4:00 and we can see if there are other people that have

13 signed up, or if someone decides they would like to have

14 something to say. And so if no one objects at this point,

15 I would like to take a short break. We will reconvene at

16 4:15.

17 (A dinner break was taken.) 

18 MR. FRUH: Well, good afternoon. We are

19 going to reconvene our public hearing for the National

20 Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants for Wool

21 Fiberglass Manufacturing. My name Steve Fruh, I am the section

22 division director of one of the divisions in Air Quality

23 Standards and came up from Raleigh, North Carolina. To my

24 right is Susan Fairchild, she works in the same division and is

25 project lead on the project. To my left, Mark Smith for the
 68

 1 Region.

 2 A little background, back in November of

 3 2011, we signed -- administrator signed proposed

 4 amendments for wool fiberglass manufacturing. And this is

 5 part of that risk and technology review of the original

 6 rule that was developed in June of 1999. And part of the

 7 review -- the original rule was developed as a technology

 8 standard. And the review that we just recently proposed

 9 addresses a risk standpoint from a human health

10 perspective and impact to the environment and human

11 health.

12 Today we have been taking comments from

13 participants that have signed up earlier today and have

14 had several people. We are now reconvening from a dinner

15 break and we will start with Mr. Betts. So if you are

16 ready, you can come to the podium, state your name for the

17 record and comment.

18 MR. BETTS: Good evening. Thank you, I am

19 Clintel Betts, and live here in the community, 2120 North

20 Fifth Street. I have been a citizen in this community --

21 I moved away for several years but I have been living in

22 the area for a long time. I am currently 55 years old and

23 have served as past president of the Oak Grove

24 Neighborhood Association which is at the northeast end --

25 just several blocks west of here.
 69

 1 I also served on the committee to help

 2 refurbish John Garland Park, which is a landfill in this

 3 area. And I have been breathing this air down here for a

 4 long time. Like I said, I am 55 years old and I guess,

 5 you know, you get a little older, your body deteriorates,

 6 your health. You know, I started out not having breathing

 7 problems now I notice -- you know, had for a lot of -- I

 8 don't know what you call them, sinus problems or whatever.

 9 But it just seems like the air quality is just not there

10 anymore down here.

11 I was reading something, a fact sheet that

12 was talking about residual risk assessment and included

13 the following analysis. As for the individual source

14 category risk of emission allowed by the current air

15 toxics, and I don't know if any of you have looked down

16 here at the Northeast area, back down there over in the

17 Fairfax industrial -- central area, but it just seems like

18 a cloud of toxic smoke is coming out of there. On a

19 cloudy day -- cloudy days, like, I walk out and it just

20 seems like more is coming out, you know. On some days

21 when the clouds -- you know, it's a clear day, you can see

22 it really good.

23 We have done several studies down here

24 involved in the John Garland Park project but it never --

25 to me there seems to be a real serious risk assessment
 70

 1 towards the people down in that area, and there are a lot

 2 of people that have passed away for -- and we don't really

 3 know what the cause of death was. We do know that some

 4 were having -- you know, problems breathing. You know,

 5 everyone on oxygen.

 6 So, you know, I started this -- you know,

 7 that this assessment should have been done a long time

 8 ago. So I am pleased to see that they are doing something

 9 about it now. But, you know, it is a long time coming.

10 Basically my concerns are -- you know, the health risk for

11 the people that are still down there. You see, myself, I

12 have children now, my youngest child is 17 years old, but

13 I have grandkids that come and visit and it is an area

14 that I am proud of and area that I have been living in a

15 long time. But still it seems like there is risk in the

16 air quality coming out of that Fairfax district in the air

17 that we breathe still to this day. So I feel the concern

18 that -- you know, about the air quality we're breathing.

19 I am still living but it is a concern to look out over

20 that area.

21 I have a brother that is older than me down

22 there and sometimes he puts on a paper air mask because

23 the air is just so hard to breathe. I don't know if it is

24 just down in this area, I don't know if it is all over --

25 you know, the city, the country, but it still seems like
 71

 1 there is a risk that all of that is coming out of -- I

 2 don't know if it is the Fiberglass place, looking down

 3 there, you know, it seems like it is two places that are

 4 releasing emissions and stuff in the air.

 5 Also there is the place that -- yes, that

 6 medical waste place up there several miles, about -- you

 7 know, the way -- also some articles about disposing of

 8 body parts down there. And so -- you know, there is just

 9 a lot of concerns that the people do have that is

10 concerning us right now, basically the elderly. That is

11 why we have to continue having our meetings, continue

12 letting them know that there is something that is going on

13 right in our backyard.

14 MR. FRUH: We appreciate your comments and

15 this is certainly part of the official record for this

16 rulemaking. Again, this rulemaking is addressing the

17 wool Fiberglass facilities --

18 MR. BETTS: Yes.

19 MR. FRUH: -- in this area. Not

20 specifically the other types of industry but air quality

21 concerns are well taken. And I know Mark had mentioned

22 earlier to some of the other commenters that -- try to

23 engage in getting lines of communication open for the

24 community as a whole.

25 MR. BETTS: Yes, and I understand that it
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 1 is wool fiberglass, you know, and they are releasing stuff

 2 up in the air also.

 3 MR. FRUH: Yes, and that is specifically

 4 what we are investigating.

 5 MR. BETTS: Yes, like I stated earlier, you

 6 know, people down -- over in that area, you know, from my

 7 front porch I have a perfect view of downtown Kansas City,

 8 Missouri and I have a perfect view of the Fairfax

 9 industrial area and I see this from my front porch, I see

10 it being released up in the air. When I come home from

11 work, wherever I am coming from, I constantly see this on

12 a daily basis, the release coming from this area down

13 here.

14 MR. FRUH: Okay. Susan, do you have other

15 questions?

16 MS. FAIRCHILD: I don't think so.

17 MR. FRUH: If you have no other comments,

18 thank you. This is part of the official record for this

19 rule.

20 MR. BETTS: Thank you.

21 MR. FRUH: Thank you. As I look across the

22 crowd I see a few faces that have already spoken. Mr.

23 Betts, you missed the crowd, we had most of our speakers

24 early this afternoon.

25 MR. BETTS: Yes, I talked to several of
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 1 them.

 2 MR. FRUH: If we don't have anyone else, I

 3 guess we will still be here for a few minutes, at least

 4 until 7:30 and see if someone else comes in.

 5 Okay, folks, it is now 7:37 and we have not

 6 had any new speakers attend or sign up to speak. So we

 7 are going to close this public hearing at this time. I

 8 want to thank everyone that took time out of their day and

 9 preceding days and showed up and shared comment with the

10 agency and be apprised that those comments will be a part

11 of the official record for this rulemaking. And the EPA

12 will address those comments as part of the following rule.

13 With that I believe we will conclude these proceedings and

14 this closes out this public hearing for the Wool

15 Fiberglass proposed amendments. Thank you.

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 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 

 2 

 3 I, Dawn Bradford Cockrell, Shorthand Reporter of 

 4 John M. Bowen & Associates, with offices located at 

 5 1930 Commerce Tower, 911 Main Street, in the City of 

 6 Kansas City, County of Jackson and State of Missouri, 

 7 do certify that I transcribed the taking of the 

 8 proceedings as set forth in the caption sheet hereof; 

 9 that I then took down in shorthand the proceedings at 

10 said time, and the foregoing is a full transcript of 

11 such shorthand notes made at such time and place. 

12 DAWN BRADFORD COCKRELL

13 Shorthand reporter 

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