UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

FIGUEROA, NAYELLI 

Respondent 

Thursday, 

January 21, 2016 

FDMS No. 

FAA-2015-2443 

1 

The teleconference convened, pursuant 

to notice, at 10:04 a.m. 

BEFORE: 

THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, 

Administrative Law Judge 

(202) 234·4433 

ORIGINAL 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

RYAN M. LANDERS, ESQ. 

of: Office of the Regional Counsel 

1701 Columbia Avenue 

College Park, Georgia 30337 

(404) 305-5200 

(404) 305-5223 fax 

ryan.landers©faa.gov 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

RICHARD GUZMAN, ESQ. 

of: The Bennett Law Center 

3377 SW 3rd Avenue 

Miami, Florida 33145 

(305) 648-2255 

(305) 648-2256 fax 

richard@sblawcenter.com 

NEAL R. GROSS 

2 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNW.nealrgross.com 
3 

1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 10:04 a.m. 

3 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We're 

4 on the record in the matter of Nayelli Figueroa. 

5 This is Docket No. FAA-2015-2443. 

6 Today is Thursday, January 21, 2016, 

7 and the parties have convened for a Rule 16 

8 litigation scheduling conference. 

9 I will note that prior to convening 

10 the conference today, there's some history that I 

11 want to talk about, but first I want to identify 

12 the parties. 

13 The Federal Aviation Administration, 

14 which I will hereinafter refer to as the FAA, is 

15 represented by its attorney of record, Mr. Ryan 

16 M. Landers. The Respondent, Nayelli Figueroa, 

17 is represented by its attorney of record, Mr. 

18 Scott B. Bennett. Mr. Bennett is not able to be 

19 here today, and so Mr. Richard Guzman, another 

20 attorney with the Bennett Law Center, is sitting 

21 in for Mr. Bennett today. 

22 I will provide a warning to you both. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
4 

1 I will note that on October 1, 2015, the Court 

2 issued an order setting a Rule 16 litigation 

3 scheduling conference and directing the parties 

4 to confer and file a Rule 26(f) proposed 

5 discovery plan. 

6 As part of this order, the parties 

7 were directed to confer privately and to submit a 

8 jointly proposed scheduling/discovery plan on or 

9 before Thursday, January 14, 2016. 

10 On January 13, 2016, the Court 

11 received a Section 13.217/Rule 26(f) report 

12 submitted by Complainant FAA, and in this 

13 particular report, the FAA noted that despite 

14 multiple contacts with the Respondent's Counsel, 

15 Respondent's Counsel had been unavailable for the 

16 informal conference as directed by the Court, and 

17 as a result, the FAA was filing a unilateral 

18 report. 

19 Shortly thereafter, in fact, two days 

20 later, on January 15, 2016, Mr. Bennett, on 

21 behalf of the Respondent, filed a notice of 

22 agreement 

(202) 234-4433 

to Complainant FAA's 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

Section 

www.nealrgross.com 
5 

1 13.217/Rule 26(f) report, and that brings us to 

2 today. 

3 So my first question is actually going 

4 to be addressed to you, Mr. Guzman, and you may 

5 not know the particulars of this, but I thought I 

6 would ask anyway: do you know if there was some 

7 reason why your colleague Mr. Bennett did not 

8 comply with the Court's order to confer with Mr. 

9 Landers and submit a jointly written proposal? 

10 MR. GUZMAN: I don't know exactly, 

11 Your Honor, but I do know that there were some 

12 trial mediations that he was attending around the 

13 same time, but I would be remiss if I or I 

14 would be I think incorrect if I stated any kind 

15 of, you know, equivocal reason why. 

16 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

17 MR. GUZMAN: I am not sure, so I 

18 apologize for not having that information. 

19 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Would you 

20 please convey to your colleague that this Court 

21 does expect him to comply with Court orders in 

22 the future? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
6 

1 MR. GUZMAN: Yes, Your Honor, of 

2 course. 

3 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 

4 All right, then let's talk a little 

5 bit about this particular plan submitted by the 

6 FAA and subsequently agreed to by the Respondent 

7 party. 

8 The first question I have then about 

9 the plan would be directed to you, Mr. Landers, 

10 and then Mr. Guzman I will follow up with you for 

11 your comments and any concerns you might have 

12 regarding the dialogue. 

13 There was no indication Mr. Landers in 

14 your materials about how long you thought the 

15 trial would last in Miami, Florida, and I think 

16 we need to talk about that first, so what is your 

17 sense of how much time there should be scheduled 

18 on everybody's calendar for the hearing itself? 

19 

20 

21 

22 

MR. LANDERS: I apologize for that, 

Your Honor. I do not believe this would take 

more than a day. I do not even think it would 

take a full day. The facts 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

are pretty 

www,nealrgross.com 
7 

1 straightforward. 

2 And I will say that Mr. Bennett called 

3 me right I guess before he faxed in his 

4 concurrence, and it does look like there is a 

5 good chance we can get to some sort of 

6 settlement, but as far as answering your specific 

7 question, it should not take more than a day. 

8 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you 

9 say one day, is that for just your case, or for 

10 everybody's case? 

11 MR. LANDERS: For everybody's. 

12 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Can you 

13 tell me if there was or is pending criminal 

14 charges filed concurrently with this civil 

15 litigation? 

16 MR. LANDERS: I do not -- there was --

17 the police did respond. They were the ones that 

18 initiated all this, and they contacted us. 

19 As far as anything that has happened 

20 since I originally got the file, I have not been 

21 able to discuss with Mr. Bennett as far as what 

22 happened with the police case, but there was one 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
8 

1 open, but I don't know if it has been closed or 

2 what resulted from that. 

3 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well then I am 

4 going to turn then to Mr. Guzman. Do you have 

5 any information first about how long you think 

6 the trial would last, and then number two, about 

7 whether or not criminal charges are concurrently 

8 pending? 

9 MR. GUZMAN: Regarding the trial, Your 

10 Honor, we do not believe that it will take more 

11 than a day. We're in agreement with Mr. Landers 

12 in that respect. 

13 Looking at the issues here, they are 

14 not necessarily that complex, and we do 

15 anticipate hopefully being able to come to an 

16 agreement prior to any trial. 

17 Then additionally, with respect to 

18 that question about the criminal charges, there 

19 has been there have been no charges filed 

20 against our client up until now that we're aware 

21 of, so I don't think that the the police 

22 department filed anything against our client. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
9 

1 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank 

2 you, that is helpful. 

3 Let's talk then about setting a date 

4 for the trial, and then we can work back and see 

5 if we want to perhaps adjust some of the dates 

6 that have been proposed by the FAA. 

7 The FAA has suggested the week of 

8 September 26th, 2016, and I actually am not 

9 available that week at all because of another 

10 trial. 

11 And in looking at my calendar, I had 

12 a chance to take a look at my calendar before we 

13 got on the phone, and I am looking more in line 

14 of the week of March 26th, 2017. So I wanted to 

15 ask if both of you would look at your calendars 

16 and tell me if that's a possibility for you. Mr. 

17 Landers, starting with you first? 

18 MR. LANDERS: You said March 

19 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: It's the week 

20 of March 26th, 2017. 

21 MR. LANDERS : I am open all week at 

22 this point in time, Your Honor. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
10 

1 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 

2 Guzman, how about for you and Mr. Bennett? 

3 MR. GUZMAN: Yes, that should be fine, 

4 Your Honor. 

5 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 

6 Landers, turning back to you, do you have a 

7 preference for one day within that week period? 

8 MR. LANDERS: I would prefer either 

9 Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday just for travel 

10 on the Monday or Friday after, but as far as 

11 which of those three days, it does not matter. 

12 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 

13 Guzman, same question to you sir. 

14 MR. GUZMAN: Any day is fine. Since 

15 it will be here in Miami, it should not be a 

16 problem for us. 

17 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why 

18 don't we set this for Wednesday, March 29, 2017 

19 in Miami, Florida? And as a result, travel for 

20 those of us who are coming in from out of town 

21 

22 

would be on Tuesday, March 28, and then 

potentially Thursday, March 30. So we have that 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
11 

1 taken care of. 

2 Given that particular scenario, what 

3 I'm going to do is I'm going to talk a little bit 

4 about what is present on page 1 of the FAA's two5 page report and then perhaps add some suggestions 

6 to what has been proposed. 

7 So I have no problem adopting fully on 

8 page 1 of the FAA's two-page report the deadline 

9 of January 29, 2016 for preliminary disclosures. 

10 There was a deadline of February 19 -- I need to 

11 go to other materials that I have on my computer 

12 for initiating general discovery, and I wanted 

13 to know, Mr. Landers, if it was your intent to 

14 have all discovery done by February 19, because I 

15 don't think that is necessary. I simply want the 

16 parties to start discovery, you know, if at all 

17 possible, as soon as possible after January 29, 

18 2016. 

19 What was your intent in proposing this 

20 particular date of February 19, 2016? 

21 

22 

MR. LANDERS: Right, no, my intent was 

just that would be the initial request. That 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com 
12 

1 would just give us two weeks after we got the 

2 initial disclosures just to look over it and then 

3 decide, you know, what additional evidence we 

4 think we might need to ask for in discovery. 

5 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That is 

6 fine. I am happy to adopt that date then. 

7 And you had also indicated response 

8 dates. Those response dates I am not sure need 

9 to be in this particular order since they're set 

10 by rule, you know. 

11 MR. LANDERS: Okay. 

12 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: You have 30 

13 days. So if you don't mind, I will just strike 

14 that, because the parties should know by looking 

15 at the FAA Rules of Practice that once you get 

16 discovery, you have 30 days to 

17 MR. LANDERS: Fine, Your Honor. 

18 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

19 And then I -- I would suggest, and I'm 

20 going to look at my materials, I would suggest 

21 that we set some time for any kind of expert 

22 witnesses, unless the parties are quite sure 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
13 

1 right now that you're not going to call anyone. 

2 And if you have police officers, FAA inspectors, 

3 those kinds of folks, those people typically are 

4 utilized with expertise. 

5 So Mr. Landers, I will turn to you 

6 first: do you anticipate calling someone who has 

7 some expertise? 

8 MR. LANDERS: Yes, Your Honor, just to 

9 discuss the dangers of what can happen with the 

10 laser beam strike. 

11 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well then 

12 let's set time for expert witness disclosures, 

13 just to be on the safe side, and 

14 MR. LANDERS: Okay. 

15 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: because we 

16 have -- we have some additional time because of 

17 this March 2 9, 2 017 hearing, I think it might 

18 work for us to push out your schedule a little 

19 bit. So let's let's talk about close of 

20 discovery. 

21 And instead of having a close of 

22 discovery by May 6, 2016, may I suggest a couple 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
14 

1 different dates to you both, and then you can 

2 tell me as you look through your calendar and 

3 write some notes whether you think this might 

4 work. 

5 So we start general discovery as of 

6 February 19, 2016. We know that there's a 30-day 

7 turnaround time for responses. If there are 

8 disputes in discovery, we want to get your 

9 motions for relief filed as soon as possible 

10 after service of the disputed discovery request 

11 or receipt of the discovery response or lack of 

12 response. 

13 We also want to set, as Mr. Landers 

14 has noted, some dispositive motion schedules, and 

15 I think what might work -- let's set -- let's go 

16 backwards. I think that probably works best. 

17 We have a March 29, 2017 hearing date 

18 in Miami. Mr. Landers, you had indicated in your 

19 Rule 26 report on page 2, paragraph 8, that pre20 trial reports should be filed approximately three 

21 weeks prior to the trial date you proposed. I am 

22 wondering what you meant by that. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

Was that a 

www.nealrgross.com 
15 

1 reference to your witness lists and exhibits, or 

2 was it something else? 

3 MR. LANDERS : No, that was what it 

4 was, Your Honor. I just thought that would give 

5 us plenty of time to prepare once we got 

6 everything, and then the rules don't require that 

7 much time, but we could also, hopefully, if we 

8 have not settled before then, make a settlement 

9 then. 

10 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

11 Mr. Guzman, is -- is that acceptable 

12 to you too, about three weeks prior to the trial 

13 exchanging the witness lists and exhibits? 

14 MR. GUZMAN: It's acceptable to us, 

15 Your Honor. 

16 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then 

17 let's set March 1, 2 o 17 for the exchange of 

18 witnesses -- witness lists and exhibits, and I'm 

19 also going to put that down in my discovery order 

20 as the date to submit written stipulations or 

21 agreed motions in limine. If you have matters 

22 that have been resolved that you want to put in 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
16 

1 the record so that the trial is narrowed down to 

2 the the bare bones dispute, then let's use 

3 March 1, 2017 for the submission of that type of 

4 material too. 

5 That means we can backtrack from March 

6 1 into dispositive motions, which I think should 

7 always be set after discovery closes so that you 

8 can make that motion with all the evidence you 

9 have if you want to and get a ruling about that 

10 motion before you have to exchange witness lists 

11 and exhibits. 

12 So let's talk about a date for the 

13 telephone motion conference, and then we'll 

14 backtrack from the telephone motion conference 

15 into the filing dates for the motion itself. 

16 I typically find that it's very 

17 helpful for me to have about six weeks after the 

18 -- the telephone motion conference before witness 

19 lists are exchanged. That gives me an option to 

20 request supplemental material from litigants if 

21 in fact a summary motion must be supplemented and 

22 to get a decision out once supplemental material 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
17 

1 has been filed. 

2 So let's say let's look at the week 

3 of January 15th for a 90-minute telephone 

4 conference on any potential dispositive motions. 

5 The first day of that particular week, 

6 which is January 16, 2017, is a federal holiday. 

7 So with that caveat, Mr. Landers, do you have 

8 anything on your calendar that week that would be 

9 a blackout date, or do you have any preference 

10 for scheduling that week? 

11 MR. LANDERS : I will be out on the 

12 17th. I have a trip planned for that holiday 

13 weekend, but I will be back in the office on the 

14 18th, so the 18th, 19, or 20th works. 

15 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Same 

16 question to you, Mr. Guzman. 

17 MR. GUZMAN: That should be fine for 

18 us, Your Honor. 

19 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's plan 

20 then on having a telephone conference on January 

21 18th, 2016, and why don't we set it for 10:30 in 

22 the morning running to noon that day? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
18 

1 MR. LANDERS: That works for me, Your 

2 Honor. 

3 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

4 1/18/17. 

5 So let's talk about filing dispositive 

6 motions, and I'd like to -- I think it's best to 

7 have those filed before the holiday at the end of 

8 December, and then the New Year's holiday, so how 

9 about -- how about this schedule: setting October 

10 28, 2016 for filing the dispositive motions, 

11 November 18, 2016 for the response, and December 

12 9, 2016 for any reply? 

13 MR. LANDERS: All those dates work for 

14 the FAA, Your Honor. 

15 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Guzman, 

16 how about for the Respondent? 

17 MR. GUZMAN: No objection, Your Honor, 

18 it's fine. 

19 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And if 

20 we do that, then we can -- we can push out the 

21 current discovery deadline that is in the FAA's 

22 materials of May 6th, 2016 to early October, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE .• N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
19 

1 2016, and I would suggest, if we have an October 

2 28, 2016 deadline for filing dispositive motions, 

3 that we set that deadline for discovery closure 

4 to be let's say October 7th, 2016. Would that 

5 work for the FAA? 

6 MR. LANDERS: Yes, Your Honor. 

7 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. 

8 Guzman, for the Respondent? 

9 MR. GUZMAN: Yes, Your Honor. 

10 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

11 So that brings us to setting some 

12 deadlines for disclosing of expert witnesses if 

13 you have reports for setting that deadline, and 

14 then I'm going to talk to you about setting a 

15 deadline for taking any depositions just in case 

16 you need to do that. 

17 I know the parties have already said 

18 you might be settling, but I -- I like to err on 

19 the side of caution because sometimes that just 

2 0 does not work out. 

21 So you want to have a deadline for 

22 expert disclosures, and then any expert reports, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
20 

1 if those are applicable in this case, and then 

2 time after that to depose both fact and expert 

3 witnesses if needed. So I'm going to suggest --

4 why don't we have, and I'm going to just throw 

5 this out and you can tell me if it works for you, 

6 the FAA to disclose its experts on or before June 

7 10, 2016, the Respondent to disclose its experts 

8 -- or is it his or her, Mr. Guzman? 

9 MR. GUZMAN: It's a she. 

10 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, her 

11 experts, on or before June 24, 2016. Expert 

12 rebuttal reports on or before July 15, 2016. And 

13 then we can have let's say a six- or seven-week 

14 period for taking of depositions. 

15 You clearly can have depositions taken 

16 earlier than June 2016 if you want, but I find 

17 that most people want to take depositions only if 

18 necessary, and they leave it to a latter period, 

19 certainly after experts have been disclosed. 

20 So how about having September 9, 2016 

21 as the deadline for taking all depositions? If 

22 we do that, October 7, 2016 would be about a 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
21 

1 month later, giving you enough time to get 

2 transcripts of depositions taken before the 

3 deadline of September 9, 2016. 

4 Mr. Landers --

5 MR. LANDERS: I think that will work 

6 

7 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- would that 

8 work for you? 

9 MR. LANDERS: Yes, Your Honor, that 

10 works for the FAA. 

11 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr. 

12 Guzman? 

13 MR. GUZMAN: Yes, Your Honor. 

14 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

15 Then let's do that, and then I am 

16 looking at my materials here. I think we 've 

17 covered everything. 

18 I should just mention to you both that 

19 if no depositions -- I am sorry -- no dispositive 

20 motions are filed, we'll still keep the -- the 

21 motion conference time of January 18th, 2016, 

22 10:30 to noon, on the calendar. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

I'll just 

www.nealrgross.com 
22 

1 convert it to a pre-hearing status conference if 

2 no dispositive motions are filed, and that way we 

3 have a chance to meet, talk, find out what's 

4 happening, see if there's any problems. 

5 In addition, my particular procedural 

6 order will also give you information about how to 

7 mark exhibits, what the examination process at 

8 the hearing is going to be. If for any reason 

9 Mr. Guzman your firm decides to withdraw, which 

10 does not happen very often, I know, but if that 

11 happens, there is information in the order about 

12 how to do it so that you are in compliance with 

13 the Court's timeline for scheduling discovery and 

14 so forth and notifying your client of what the 

15 due dates are. 

16 I also have in the procedural order 

17 information about how to file motions to either 

18 limit discovery or compel it or for other 

19 actions, and I would simply caution both of you 

20 that if you do have discovery disputes, there is 

21 a requirement in my procedural order for a good 

22 faith discussion prior to bringing those to the 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS ANO TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHOOE ISLANO AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, O.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
23 

1 Court's attention, and you need to file a good 

2 faith declaration with those kinds of motions, 

3 very similar to federal practice. 

4 What else do we need to talk about? 

5 There is information about requests for 

6 modification of the order. I will have the name 

7 of the attorney who works for me and his contact 

8 number in the order in case you have any 

9 procedural questions or other things come up and 

10 you need to reach me. 

11 If you need to add other conference 

12 time on my calendar, I'm available for that, and 

13 you just call Mr. Smith and talk to him about how 

14 to go about doing that. 

15 Mr. Landers, starting with you first, 

16 is there anything else that we need to address 

17 for your client today before we close? 

18 MR. LANDERS: No, Your Honor. 

19 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 

20 Guzman, same question to you. 

21 MR. GUZMAN: No, Your Honor. 

22 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
24 

1 should also mention that we -- we have agreed 

2 that Miami, Florida is the venue for this 

3 particular case. I generally will send out 

4 specific information about what courtroom we're 

5 going to be meeting in about 60 days after -- or 

6 before the trial itself. 

7 Typically, what I do is I wait until 

8 after I hear motions for summary judgment, or I 

9 wait until about that point in time, simply 

10 because parties often settle around that time, 

11 and it behooves us not to go through the process 

12 of contacting courts and trying to schedule 

13 reserve courtroom times if in fact the parties do 

14 not need it. 

15 So you will get that particular 

16 information a little closer to the time of the 

17 hearing. 

18 With that, then, it appears our 

19 business is complete. I am going to thank you 

20 both very much for your presence today and for 

21 your assistance in making these modifications. I 

22 will send out a -- an order codifying all this 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 IJoNVW. nealrgross.com 
25 

1 information and get it out to you no later than 

2 -- oh, I'm going to try and do it today in part 

3 because we have this huge snowstorm in the East 

4 Coast/D.C. area, so if it's not done today, I 

5 can't guarantee it would be done tomorrow because 

6 the federal offices may be closed, but it will 

7 get out to you within the next five days if not 

8 today. 

9 With that, any final matters, Mr. 

10 Landers? 

11 MR. LANDERS: No ma'am. 

12 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. 

13 Guzman? 

14 MR. GUZMAN: No Judge. 

15 ADMIN. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank 

16 you very much. It appears our business is 

17 complete. We can go off the record, and I wish 

18 you both a good day. Thank you. 

19 MR. GUZMAN: Thank you. 

20 MR. LANDERS: Thank you, Judge. 

21 (Whereupon, the conference went off 

22 the record at 10:31 a.m.) 

(202) 234·4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
A 

a.m 1:13 3:2 25:22 

able3:187:218:15 

acceptable 15:11,14 

actions 22:19 

add 11:5 23:11 

addition 22:5 

additional12:3 13:16 

additionally 8:17 

address 23:16 

addressed 5:4 

adjust 9:5 

ADMIN 3:3 5:16,19 6:3 

7:8,12 8:3 9:1 '19 10:1 

10:5,12,1712:5,12,18 

13:11,1515:10,16 

17:15,1918:3,15,19 

19:7,10 20:10 21:7,11 

21:14 23:19,22 25:12 

25:15 

Administration 3:13 

Administrative 1:19 

adopt 12:6 

adopting 11:7 

agreed 6:6 15:21 24:1 

agreement 4:22 8:11,16 

AMERICA 1:1 

answering 7:6 

anticipate 8:15 13:6 

anyway 5:6 

apologize 5:18 6:19 

APPEARANCES 2:1 

appears 24:18 25:16 

applicable 20:1 

approximately 14:20 

area 25:4 

assistance 24:21 

attending 5:12 

attention 23:1 

attorney 3:15,17,20 

23:7 

available 9:9 23:12 

Avenue2:4,14 

Aviation 3:13 

aware 8:20 

----~----

B 

B 3:18 

back 9:4 10:6 17:13 

backtrack 16:5,14 

backwards 14:16 

bare 16:2 

beam 13:10 

behalf2:2,10 4:21 

behooves 24:11 

believe 6:20 8:10 

Bennett2:13 3:18,18 

3:20,21 4:20 5:7 7:2 

(202) 234-4433 

7:2110:2 

best 14:16 18:6 

bit6:511:3 13:19 

blackout 17:9 

bones 16:2 

bringing 22:22 

brings5:119:11 

business 24:19 25:16 

c 

calendar6:18 9:11,12 

14:2 17:8 21:22 23:12 

calendars 9:15 

call13:1 23:13 

called 7:2 

calling 13:6 

care 11:1 

case 7:9,10,22 19:15 

20:1 23:8 24:3 

caution 19:19 22:19 

caveat 17:7 

Center 2:13 3:20 

certainly20:19 

chance 7:5 9:12 22:3 

charges 7:14 8:7,18,19 

civil7:14 

clearly 20:15 

client 8:20,22 22:14 

23:17 

close 13:19,21 23:17 

closed 8:1 25:6 

closer24:16 

closes 16:7 

closure 19:3 

Coast/D.C 25:4 

codifying 24:22 

colleague 5:7,20 

College 2:5 

Columbia 2:4 

come 8:15 23:9 

coming 10:20 

comments 6:11 

compel22: 18 

Complainant2:2 4:12 

4:22 

complete24:19 25:17 

complex 8:14 

compliance 22:12 

comply 5:8,21 

computer 11:11 

concerns 6:11 

concurrence 7:4 

concurrently 7:14 8:7 

confer4:4,7 5:8 

conference 3:8,10 4:3 

4:16 16:13,14,1817:4 

17:20 21:21 22:1 

23:11 25:21 

contact 23:7 

contacted 7:18 

contacting 24:12 

contacts4:14 

convened 1:12 3:7 

convening 3:9 

convert 22:1 

convey5:20 

Counsel2:4 4:14,15 

couple 13:22 

course6:2 

Court4:1,10,16 5:20,21 

Court's 5:8 22:13 23:1 

courtroom 24:4,13 

courts 24:12 

covered21:17 

criminal7:13 8:7,18 

current 18:21 

D 

dangers 13:9 

date 9:3 11:20 12:6 

14:17,21 15:20 16:12 

17:9 

dates 9:5 12:8,8 14:1 

16:1518:13 22:15 

day 6:21,22 7:7,9 8:11 

10:7,14 17:5,22 25:18 

days4:1910:1112:13 

12:16 24:5 25:7 

deadline 11:8,10 18:21 

19:2,3,13,15,21 20:21 

21:3 

deadlines 19:12 

December 18:8,11 

decide 12:3 

decides 22:9 

decision 16:22 

declaration 23:2 

department 1:1 8:22 

depose20:2 

depositions 19:15 

20:14,15,17,21 21:2 

21:19 

despite 4:13 

dialogue 6:12 

different 14:1 

directed 4:7,16 6:9 

directing 4:3 

disclose 20:6,7 

disclosed 20:19 

disclosing 19:12 

disclosures 11:9 12:2 

13:12 19:22 

discovery4:511:12,14 

11:1612:4,1613:20 

13:22 14:5,8,1 0,11 

15:19 16:7 18:21 19:3 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

Washington DC 

26 

22:13,18,20 

discuss 7:21 13:9 

discussion 22:22 

dispositive 14:14 16:6 

17:418:5,10 19:2 

21:19 22:2 

dispute 16:2 

disputed 14:10 

disputes 14:8 22:20 

Docket 3:5 

doing 23:14 

due22:15 

E 

earlier 20:16 

early 18:22 

East 25:3 

either 10:8 22:17 

equivocal5:15 

err 19:18 

ESQ 2:3,12 

everybody's 6:18 7:10 

7:11 

evidence 12:3 16:8 

exactly 5:10 

examination 22:7 

exchange 15:17 16:10 

exchanged 16:19 

exchanging 15:13 

exhibits 15:1,13,18 

16:11 22:7 

expect 5:21 

expert 12:21 13:12 

19:12,22,22 20:2,11 

expertise 13:4,7 

experts 20:6,7,11,19 

F 

FAA 3:14 4:12,13,17 

6:6 9:6,7 12:15 13:2 

18:1419:5 20:6 21:10 

FAA's 4:22 11:4,8 18:21 

FAA-2015-24431:5 3:5 

fact4:19 16:21 20:2 

24:13 

facts 6:22 

faith 22:22 23:2 

far 7:6,19,21 10:10 

fax 2:6,17 

faxed 7:3 

FDMS 1:4 

February 11:10,14,20 

14:6 

federal3:1317:6 23:3 

25:6 

Figueroa 1:5 3:4,16 

file 4:4 7:20 22:17 23:1 

filed 4:21 7:14 8:19,22 

www.nealrgross.com 
14:9,20 17:1 18:7 

21:20 22:2 

filing 4:17 16:15 18:5 

18:10 19:2 

final25:9 

find 16:16 20:16 22:3 

fine 10:3,14 12:6,17 

17:17 18:18 

firm 22:9 

first 3:11 5:3 6:8,16 8:5 

9:1713:617:523:15 

five 25:7 

Florida 2:15 6:15 10:19 

24:2 

folks 13:3 

follow6:10 

forth 22:14 

Friday 10:10 

full6:22 

fully11:7 

future 5:22 

-- G 

general11:1214:5 

generally 24:3 

Georgia 2:5 

give 12:115:4 22:6 

Given 11:2 

gives 16:19 

giving 21:1 

go11:1114:1523:14 

24:11 25:17 

going 5:3 8:4 11:3,3 

12:20 13:1 15:19 

19:14 20:3,4 22:8 

24:5,19 25:2 

good7:522:2123:1 

25:18 

guarantee 25:5 

guess 7:3 

Guzman 2:12 3:19 5:4 

5:10,17 6:1,10 8:4,9 

10:2,3,13,1415:11,14 

17:16,1718:15,17 

19:8,9 20:8,9 21:12 

21:13 22:9 23:20,21 

25:13,14,19 

----------

H 

happen 13:9 22:10 

happened 7:19,22 

happening 22:4 

happens 22:11 

happy 12:6 

hear 24:8 

hearing6:18 13:17 

14:17 22:8 24:17 

HEARINGS 1:2 

(202) 234-4433 

helpful9:2 16:17 

hereinafter 3:14 

history 3:10 

holiday 17:6,12 18:7,8 

Honor5:116:1,20 8:10 

9:22 10:4 12:17 13:8 

15:4,1517:18 18:2,14 

18:1719:6,9 21:9,13 

23:18,21 

HONORABLE 1:18 

hopefully 8:15 15:7 

huge25:3 

I 

identify 3:11 

incorrect5:14 

indicated 12:7 14:18 

indication 6:13 

informal4:16 

information 5:18 8:5 

22:6,11 '17 23:5 24:4 

24:16 25:1 

initial 11 :22 12:2 

initiated 7:18 

initiating 11: 12 

inspectors 13:2 

intent11:13,19,21 

issued4:2 

issues 8:13 

J 

J.E 1:18 

January 1:8 3:6 4:9,10 

4:20 11:9,17 17:3,6 

17:20 21:21 

jointly 4:8 5:9 

Judge 1:19 3:3 5:16,19 

6:3 7:8,12 8:3 9:1,19 

10:1,5,12,17 12:5,12 

12:1813:11,1515:10 

15:16 17:15,1918:3 

18:15,19 19:7,10 

20:10 21:7,11,14 

23:19,22 25:12,14,15 

25:20 

judgment 24:8 

July 20:12 

June20:6,11,16 

K 

keep 21:20 

kind 5:14 12:21 

kinds 13:3 23:2 

know5:5,6, 10, 11,15 8:1 

11:13,1612:3,10,14 

14:6 19:17 22:10 

L 

lack 14:11 

Landers 2:3 3:1 6 5:9 

6:9,13,19 7:11, 16 

8:119:17,18,2 1 10:6 

10:811:13,21 12:11 

12:1713:5,8,1 4 14:13 

7,11 

1:4,5,9 

0,11,20 

14:18 15:3 17: 

18:1,1319:62 

23:15,18 25:1 

laser 13:10 

Law 1:19 2:13 3: 20 

leave 20:18 

let's 6:4 9:3 13:1 2,19,19 

14:15,15 15:1 7 16:2 

16:1217:2,2,1 

19:4 20:13 21: 

limine 15:21 

limit 22:18 

line9:13 

lists 15:1,13,18 

16:19 

litigants 16:20 

9 18:5 

15 

16:10 

litigation 3:8 4:2 7:15 

little 6:4 11 :3 13 :18 

24:16 

long 6:14 8:5 

look7:4 9:12,15 12:2 

12:20 14:2 17: 2 

looking 8:13 9:1 1 '13 

12:14 21:16 

M 

M 2:3 3:16 

ma'am 25:11 

making 24:21 

March 9:14,18,2 0 10:18 

10:21,22 13:1 7 14:17 

15:17 16:3,5 

mark 22:7 

material16:4,20 ,22 

1:11 

1 :16 

0:11 

5:9 

materials 6:14 1 

12:20 18:22 2 

matter 1 :4 3:4 1 

matters 15:21 2 

means 16:5 

meant 14:22 

mediations 5:1 2 

meet22:3 

meeting 24:5 

mention 21:18 

Miami2:156:15 

24:1 

10:15 

10:19 14:18 2 4:2 

mind 12:13 

modification 23 

modifications 2 

Monday 10:10 

month21:1 

morning 17:22 

:6 

4:21 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

Washington DC 

27 

motion 14:14 16:8,10 

16:13,14,15,18,21 

21:21 

motions 14:9 15:21 

16:6 17:4 18:6,10 

19:2 21:20 22:2,17 

23:2 24:8 

multiple4:14 

-------- N 

name23:6 

narrowed 16:1 

Nayelli 1:5 3:4,16 

necessarily 8:14 

necessary 11:15 20:18 

need6:1611:10 12:4,8 

19:16 23:1,4,10,11,16 

24:14 

needed 20:3 

New 18:8 

noon 17:22 21:22 

note 3:9 4:1 

noted 4:13 14:14 

notes 14:3 

notice 1:13 4:21 

notifying 22:14 

November18:11 

number 8:6 23:8 

0 

objection 18:17 

October4:1 18:9,22 

19:1,4 20:22 

office 1:2 2:417:13 

officers 13:2 

offices 25:6 

oh 25:2 

Okay 3:3 5:16 7:12 9:1 

10:1,5,12,1712:5,11 

12:18 13:14 15:10,16 

17:1518:3,19 19:10 

20:1021:11,1423:19 

23:22 25:15 

once 12:15 15:5 16:22 

ones 7:17 

open 8:1 9:21 

option 16:19 

order 4:2,6 5:8 12:9 

15:19 22:6,11,16,21 

23:6,8 24:22 

orders 5:21 

originally 7:20 

p 

P-R-0-C-E-E-D-1-N-G-S 

3:1 

page 11:4,5,8 14:19 

paragraph 14:19 

www.nealrgross.com 
28 

Park 2:5 quite 12:22 scheduled 6:17 15:10,1617:15,19 

part 4:6 25:2 ----- schedules 14:14 18:3,15,1919:7,10 

particular4:13 6:511:2 R scheduling 3:8 4:3 20:1021:7,11,14 

11:20 12:9 17:5 22:5 reach 23:10 17:10 22:13 23:19,22 25:12,15 

24:3,15 reason 5:7,15 22:8 scheduling/discovery summary 16:21 24:8 

particulars 5:5 rebuttal20:12 4:8 supplemental16:20,22 

parties 3:7,12 4:3,6 receipt 14:11 Scott 3:18 supplemented 16:21 

11:1612:14,2219:17 received 4:11 Section 4:11,22 sure 5:17 12:8,22 

24:10,13 record 3:4,15,17 16:1 see 9:4 22:4 SW2:14 

party 6:7 25:17,22 send 24:3,22 

pending 7:13 8:8 refer 3:14 sense6:17 L 

people 13:3 20:17 reference 15:1 September 9:8 20:20 take 6:20,22 7:7 8:10 

period 10:7 20:14,18 regarding 6:12 8:9 21:3 9:12 20:17 

phone 9:13 Regional 2:4 service 14:10 taken 11:120:15 21:2 

plan 4:5,8 6:5,9 17:19 relief 14:9 set 10:18 12:9,21 13:12 talk3:116:4,16 9:311:3 

planned 17:12 remiss 5:13 14:13,1515:1716:7 13:1916:12 18:5 

please 5:20 reply 18:12 17:2119:3 19:1422:3 23:4,13 

plenty 15:5 report4:11,13,18 5:1 setting 4:2 9:3 18:9 teleconference 1:12 

point 9:22 24:9 11:5,8 14:19 19:11,13,14 telephone 16:13,14,18 

police 7:17,22 8:21 reports 14:2019:13,22 settle 24:10 17:3,20 

13:2 20:12 settled 15:8 tell7:13 9:16 14:2 20:5 

possibility 9:16 represented 3:15,17 settlement 7:6 15:8 thank6:3 9:1 24:19 

possible 11:17,17 14:9 request 11 :22 14: 1 0 settling 19:18 25:15,18,19,20 

potential17:4 16:20 seven-week 20:13 things 23:9 

potentially 10:22 requests 23:5 Shortly 4:19 think 5:14 6:15,21 8:5 

practice 12:15 23:3 require 15:6 side 13:13 19:19 8:2111:1512:413:17 

pre 14:19 requirement 22:21 similar 23:3 14:3,15,16 16:6 18:6 

pre-hearing 22:1 reserve 24:13 simply 11:15 22:19 21:5,16 

prefer 10:8 resolved 15:22 24:9 thought5:5 6:14 15:4 

preference 10:7 17:9 respect8:12,17 sir 10:13 three 10:11 14:20 15:12 

preliminary 11:9 respond 7:17 sitting 3:20 throw20:4 

prepare 15:5 Respondent 1:6 2:10 six 16:17 20:13 Thursday 1:8 3:6 4:9 

presence 24:20 3:16 4:21 6:6 18:16 Smith 23:13 10:9,22 

present 11 :4 19:8 20:7 snowstorm 25:3 time 5:13 6:17 9:22 

pretty 6:22 Respondent's 4:14,15 soon 11:17 14:9 12:2113:12,1614:7 

prior 3:9 8:16 14:21 response 12:7,8 14:11 sorry21:19 15:5,7 20:2 21:1,21 

15:12 22:22 14:1218:11 sort 7:5 23:12 24:9,10,16 

privately 4:7 responses 14:7 specific 7:6 24:4 timeline 22:13 

probably 14:16 result4:17 10:19 start11:1614:5 times 24:13 

problem 10:16 11:7 resulted 8:2 starting 9:17 23:15 today3:6,10,19,215:2 

problems 22:4 Richard2:123:19 stated 5:14 23:17 24:20 25:2,4,8 

procedural 22:5,16,21 richard@sblawcente ... STATES 1:1 tomorrow 25:5 

23:9 2:18 status 22:1 town 10:20 

process 22:7 24:11 right6:4 7:311:2113:1 stipulations 15:20 transcripts 21 :2 

proposal 5:9 rule 3:7 4:2,4 12:10 straightforward 7:1 TRANSPORTATION 

proposed 4:4,8 9:6 14:19 strike 12:13 13:10 1: 1 

11:6 14:21 rules 12:15 15:6 submission 16:3 travel1 0:9,19 

proposing 11:19 ruling 16:9 submit 4:7 5:9 15:20 trial5:12 6:15 8:6,9,16 

provide 3:22 running 17:22 submitted 4:12 6:5 9:4,1014:20,2115:12 

pursuant 1:12 Ryan 2:3 3:15 subsequently 6:6 16:1 24:6 

push 13:18 18:20 ryan.landers@faa.gov suggest 12:19,20 13:22 trip 17:12 

put 15:19,22 2:7 19:1 20:3 try 25:2 

suggested 9:7 trying 24:12 

_Q s suggestions 11:5 Tuesday 10:9,21 

question 5:3 6:8 7:7 safe 13:13 SULLIVAN 1:18 3:3 turn 8:4 13:5 

8:18 10:13 17:16 scenario 11 :2 5:16,19 6:3 7:8,12 8:3 turnaround 14:7 

23:20 schedule 13:18 18:9 9:1,19 10:1,5,12,17 turning 10:6 

questions 23:9 24:12 12:5,12,1813:11,15 two4:19 8:611:412:1 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

(202) 234-4433 Washington DC www.nealrgross.com 
two-page 11:8 

type 16:3 

typically 13:3 16:16 

24:7 

u 

unavailable4:15 

unilateral4: 17 

UNITED 1:1 

use 16:2 

utilized 13:4 

___ ___\/_ ____ - -

venue 24:2 

--- _'t!_ __ _ 

wait 24:7,9 

want3:11,119:511:15 

14:8,1315:2216:9 

19:21 20:16,17 

wanted 9:14 11:12 

warning 3:22 

way 22:2 

we'll16:13 21:20 

we're 3:3 8:11,20 24:4 

we've 21:16 

Wednesday 10:9,18 

week 9:7,9, 14,19,21 

10:7 17:2,5,8, 10 

weekend 17:13 

weeks 12:114:2115:12 

16:17 

went 25:21 

wish 25:17 

withdraw 22:9 

witness 13:1215:1,13 

15:1816:10,18 

witnesses 12:2215:18 

19:12 20:3 

wondering 14:22 

work9:413:1814:4,15 

18:13 19:5,20 21:5,8 

works 14:16 17:14 18:1 

20:5 21:10 23:7 

write 14:3 

written 5:9 15:20 

X 

y 

Year's 18:8 

z -----~---

___0 

-- ___ 1,__ __ _ 

14:111:4,815:1716:3 

(202) 234-4433 

16:6 

111811718:4 

10 20:7 

10:041:13 3:2 

10:30 17:21 21:22 

10:31 25:22 

13 4:10 

13.217/Rule4:115:1 

14 4:9 

15 4:20 20:12 

15th 17:3 

16 3:7 4:2 17:6 

1701 2:4 

17th 17:12 

1818:11 

18th 17:14,14,21 21:21 

1911:10,14,2014:6 

17:14 

214:19 

2015 4:1 

2 

20161:8 3:6 4:9,10,20 

9:8 11:9,18,20 13:22 

14:617:2118:10,11 

18:12,2219:1,2,4 

20:7,11 '12, 16,20,22 

21:3,21 

2017 9:14,2010:18 

13:17 14:17 15:17 

16:3 17:6 

20th 17:14 

211:8 3:6 

2420:11 

26 14:19 

26(f) 4:4,11 5:1 

26th 9:8,14,20 

28 10:2118:10 19:2 

2910:1811:9,1713:17 

14:17 

_3 ____ _ 

3010:2212:12,16 

30-day 14:6 

30337 2:5 

305 2:16,17 

305-5200 2:5 

305-5223 2:6 

33145 2:15 

33772:14 

3rd 2:14 

_____ 4 

404 2:5,6 

5 

6 

6 13:22 

60 24:5 

648-2255 2: 16 

648-2256 2: 17 

6th 18:22 

7 20:22 

7th 19:4 

8 14:19 

7 

8 

9 

Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. 

Washington DC 

29 

www.nealrgross.com 
30 

C E R T I F I C A T E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Nayeli Figueroa 

Before: USDOT/FAA 

Date: 02-21-16 

Place: teleconference 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

(202) 234-4433 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com