UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, COMPLAINANT, VS. CASE NO. FAA-2014-1119 SELECT AVIATION SERVICES RESPONDENT.

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TELECONFERENCE HEARING BEFORE THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN TUESDAY, JUNE 16, 2015 1:34 P.M. HISTORIC JORDAN SPRINGS 1160 JORDAN SPRINGS ROAD STEPHENSON, VIRGINIA 22656FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 2

1 APPEARANCES 2 ON BEHALF OF THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: 3 ROBERT SPITZER, ESQUIRE 4 OFFICE OF THE REGIONAL COUNSEL, 5 NORTHWEST MOUNTAIN REGION 6 FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 7 1601 LIND AVENUE, SOUTHWEST 8 RENTON, WASHINGTON 98057 9 TELEPHONE: 425.227.1417 10 FACSIMILE: 425.227.1007 11 EMAIL: ROBERT.SPITZER@FAA.GOV 12 13 14 15 ALSO PRESENT: 16 SPENCER WILLIAMS, JUDICIAL INTERN 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 3

1 INDEX 2 Page 3 4 (NONE EXAMINED) 5 6 7 EXHIBITS 8 Exhibit Page 9 10 (NONE MARKED) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 4

1 HEARING 2 TUESDAY, JUNE 16, 2015 3 1:34 P.M. 4 THE COURT: We're on the record in the 5 matter of Select Aviation Services, Inc. This is 6 Docket number FAA-2014-1119. Today is Tuesday, June 7 16, 2015, and the parties have convened for a Rule 16, 8 Litigation Scheduling Conference. 9 The FAA is represented by its attorney of 10 record, Mr. Robert Spitzer. The Respondent, Select 11 Aviation Services, Inc., is not present, and there's 12 no explanation for its absence. I'll note that also 13 present at the Office of Hearing today is an observer 14 by the name of Spencer ... sorry Spencer, I forgot 15 your name. 16 MR. WILLIAMS: Williams. 17 THE COURT: Thank you. I know Spencer's 18 name, but I drew a blank. He has just advised me it's 19 Spencer Williams. He is a law student intern with the 20 Office of Hearings, and again, is sitting in as an 21 observer only. So good afternoon to you all. 22 MR. SPITZER: Good afternoon, Your Honor. 23 THE COURT: Mr. Spitzer, what I'm going to 24 do at this point, is I'm going to do a little bit of 25 history, and then we can talk about the absence of theFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 5

1 Respondent from these proceedings, your Motion for 2 Decision, and other matters. 3 So essentially, as I reviewed the file, it 4 appears that on January 13, 2015, the Respondent, 5 which at that time was represented by its attorney, 6 Mr. David M. Schoeggl, filed a Request for Hearing. 7 Shortly thereafter, on January 22, 2015, the FAA filed 8 its complaint. There has been no response or answer 9 to the complaint, either by Mr. Schoeggl, on behalf of 10 the Respondent, or by the Respondent itself. 11 The Certificate of Service that has been 12 filed in this action by the FAA, has listed a Mr. Fred 13 Hodgdon, H-O-D-G-D-O-N, as an individual recipient on 14 behalf of the Respondent. And I am going to be 15 talking about his name and what part he might play in 16 this, a little later in these proceedings. 17 I'll simply note, however, again, that there 18 was no response or answer filed to the January 22, 19 2015, dated complaint. However, on April 6, 2015, 20 this Court issued an Order, setting a CR-16 Litigation 21 Scheduling Conference, and directing the parties to 22 engage in a Rule 26F Planning Meeting. Shortly 23 thereafter that, on May 21, 2015, Mr. Schoeggl filed a 24 withdrawal notice, indicating that as of May 15, 2015, 25 he withdrew as representative for the Respondent.FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 6

1 In this withdrawal notice, which was one 2 page, he indicated that all future papers and 3 pleadings, "Should be served upon Select Aviation 4 Services, Inc., at their last known address of 1004 5 East Side Highway, P.O. Box 430, Corvallis, MT 59828." 6 MT standing for the State of Montana. 7 Shortly thereafter, on June 10, 2015, the 8 FAA filed a Motion for Decision, in which the FAA 9 seeks a full disponsive relief in this action, on the 10 grounds of a defaulting party. 11 Let's talk a little bit about that for just 12 a moment. Mr. Spitzer, let me ask you first and 13 foremost, who is Fred Hodgdon? Do you know? 14 MR. SPITZER: Your Honor, from the informal 15 conference, we believe that he's the CEO of the 16 company, or at least someone with some degree of 17 oversight for the business of the company. 18 THE COURT: And when you say that you 19 believe that, is that because you spoke to him 20 personally, or because Mr. Schoeggl represented that 21 to you? 22 MR. SPITZER: I didn't join the informal 23 conference, so the agency spoke with him personally. 24 THE COURT: Okay. During that informal 25 conference, can you state with confidence that Mr.FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 7

1 Hodgdon identified himself in some way, shape, or 2 form, as the CEO, or having some financial or agent 3 status with the company? 4 MR. SPITZER: Yes, Your Honor, we can state 5 with some confidence that he represented himself as 6 being either president of the company, or in some 7 director position at the company. 8 THE COURT: And when did that informal 9 conference occur? 10 MR. SPITZER: It was November 21, 2013. 11 THE COURT: So approximately a year-and-a12 half ago. 13 MR. SPITZER: Yes, that's correct. 14 THE COURT: Since November 21, 2013, have 15 you had any further communications from Mr. Hodgdon, 16 or was your primary contact with Mr. Schoeggl? 17 MR. SPITZER: All contact was with Mr. 18 Schoeggl. 19 THE COURT: This Court has not been provided 20 with any information about a phone number for either 21 the Respondent, Select Aviation Services, Inc., or Mr. 22 Fred Hodgdon. Do you by any chance, have a phone 23 number for either entity or person? 24 MR. SPITZER: One second, Your Honor. Your 25 Honor, we have the general telephone number, aFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 8

1 business telephone number for Select Aviation, which 2 in 2013, was 406-961-4100. 3 THE COURT: Okay, thank you. Have you had a 4 chance to try and utilize that number in the near 5 past, so that we could be assured that it's a working 6 number? 7 MR. SPITZER: Your Honor, I attempted to 8 call that phone number about a week, two weeks ago, 9 and the phone appears to have been disconnected. 10 THE COURT: Do you know, Mr. Spitzer, 11 whether or not this company is still in business, and 12 whether the address that the Court has ... the address 13 of record is still viable? 14 MR. SPITZER: Your Honor, we believe the 15 company is currently out of business, although that's 16 strictly from hearing news in the general industry. 17 The letter that we sent on May 27, 2015 to Hodgdon's 18 P.O. Box was accepted, and we received a certified 19 return receipt back. 20 THE COURT: And what letter are you 21 referring to? 22 MR. SPITZER: The letter that ... hold on 23 one second. I believe that this is the renewed Motion 24 for Decision. 25 THE COURT: I can tell you that the letterFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 9

1 that I have, that was sent by you, is dated June 9, 2 2015. I don't have any other letter. 3 MR. SPITZER: Yes, Your Honor, this is the 4 Motion for Decision. It says on the certified return 5 receipt letter. 6 THE COURT: So this is a June 9, 2015, 7 letter that you sent to the Respondent's business, and 8 it has not yet been returned as undeliverable? 9 MR. SPITZER: No, we've had no word yet, on 10 the destiny of that letter. 11 THE COURT: Well, it's still early for the 12 U.S. Post Office to potentially return. That was only 13 one week ago, as of today. But we can talk about that 14 a little bit more in just a moment. 15 So let's talk a little bit about the status 16 of the case. Clearly, there's an absence by the 17 responding party, and the withdrawal motion that I 18 received from Mr. Schoeggl, dated May 15, 2015, and 19 received by this office on May 21, 2015, indicated 20 that Mr. Hodgdon was served by first-class mail. Do 21 you have any objection to the Court accepting the 22 Notice of Withdrawal? 23 MR. SPITZER: None, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT: So noted, and the Notice of 25 Withdrawal is accepted. So then let's talk about theFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 10

1 Motion for Decision. And I'm going to chat with you 2 about it briefly, because I think there's some concern 3 the Court has with it, that might be fixable. And it 4 might behoove your client to consider correcting these 5 things, before the Court is asked to rule upon it. 6 Although, I leave it to you to decide what you want to 7 do. 8 First and foremost, I'm going to turn your 9 attention, if I may, to the Motion for Decision. And 10 the Motion for Decision is a two-page document, if we 11 do not include the Certificate of Service. On the 12 second page of the decision, may I draw your attention 13 to the conclusion and your signature. You have signed 14 this document as of October 13, 2014, which creates, I 15 think, somewhat of a problem for you, Mr. Spitzer. 16 Since most of the allegations that are contained in 17 the document post-date October 13, 2014. 18 MR. SPITZER: Yeah, that appears to be an 19 error, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: But I'm going to chat a little 21 bit about some other things too. You might also want 22 to take a look at the Certificate of Service that is 23 attached to this particular document, in which there 24 is an assertion, a certification by a staff member of 25 your office, that the document was sent to me. And itFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 11

1 clearly was not. My name is identified, but the 2 address given is your own client's address for the 3 internal FAA hearing docket. And so this Certificate 4 of Service appears to be flawed, because neither the 5 hearing docket, nor my office was properly served by 6 the language of the Certificate of Service. 7 Then let's chat just briefly about the 8 Certificate of Service on the June 9, 2015, letter. 9 There's an attempt, obviously, by your client to try 10 and correct the error that occurred earlier this year, 11 when the motion had never been filed with the Court. 12 And happily, the Court did get a copy of the June 9, 13 2015, letter. I'm not quite sure who faxed it to this 14 office, but I cannot say that the Certificate of 15 Service helps me in that regard. Because again, it 16 notes that I have been served, but the service address 17 and fax number is for your own client hearing docket. 18 And thus we again do not have proof of service, 19 sufficiently on either the Court or the hearing 20 docket. 21 In addition, the address for Mr. Hodgdon is 22 not the complete address that was provided by his 23 withdrawing counsel, in the counsel's letter of 24 withdrawal, dated May 21, 2015. I think there's some 25 real problems there as well. May I continue, or doFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 12

1 you have any questions at this point? 2 MR. SPITZER: No, Your Honor, we will refile 3 the Motion for Decision correctly. 4 THE COURT: Let me talk to you then, a 5 little bit about the motion itself, if I may. In the 6 motion itself, on page one of the motion, you have 7 identified the Complainant as the administrator. And 8 I would respectfully suggest caution in that regard. 9 And the reason I say that is because there is a 10 distinct separation of function at the hearing level, 11 between the administrator and the agency counsel. And 12 typically, according to the regulations, the 13 administrator is not involved and is not the 14 Complainant. Because that way the administrator may 15 serve as the appellate decision-maker, once I issue a 16 dispositive ruling. So if you look at 14CFR, section 17 13.202 and 203, you'll see that ... that separation of 18 power that says the administrator will not be a part 19 of this adjudication. I suspect your staff member is 20 very used to using the administrator as the 21 prosecuting party in other matters, and simply made a 22 mistake. But I would ask you too, to take a look at 23 that, if you would be so kind. 24 MR. SPITZER: Certainly, Your Honor. 25 THE COURT: And then lastly, or I'm hopingFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 13

1 this is lastly. Let me just double check. I think 2 this is last. You had indicated in your motion, and 3 this would be on page one and page two, that both the 4 Respondent attorney and the Respondent lay 5 representative were served on different dates, with 6 the complaint. And then you count your time for 7 service from the date that the complaint was received 8 by the lay representative, which is the date that is 9 farther out in time. And I'm curious as to why. And 10 you don't need to say so now. Why you would not count 11 from the date of service on the attorney? Excuse me. 12 MR. SPITZER: Your Honor, the intention 13 there was to give the Respondent every possible 14 advantage, so that it was abundantly clear that time 15 had adequately passed for the filing of the complaint. 16 So that was the intention behind the two separate 17 dates there. 18 THE COURT: And you're welcome to do that. 19 I would also note, however, that the motion that I 20 received, did not have a copy or any proof of the 21 Certificate of Service. So if you were planning to 22 refile the motion, it might be helpful to perfect your 23 record, and show proof of the certified mailing, and 24 its receipt. 25 MR. SPITZER: Certainly, Your Honor.FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 14

1 THE COURT: So I am happy, of course, to 2 give you whatever time you want to refile this motion 3 and correct those errors. Or, if you would like, I 4 would be happy to rule on the motion now. 5 MR. SPITZER: Your Honor, we'll correct the 6 errors. 7 THE COURT: Okay. And let me ask you this, 8 Mr. Spitzer, would you like me to reset a Rule 16 9 Conference for a date far, far out? And then give you 10 ample time to file a new or amended Motion for 11 Decision, prior to that time? Or, do you want me to 12 simply conclude the proceeding today? There is no 13 further basis to have a CR16 Conference at this time. 14 And leave it to you to track your own case. 15 MR. SPITZER: Your Honor, I don't think 16 there's any reason to have an additional Rule 16 17 Conference, in light of the fact that the Respondent 18 appears to have disappeared. We'll refile the Motion 19 for Decision within the week, and then hopefully 20 you'll rule positively or in our favor on the Motion 21 for Decision, and we can close the case. 22 THE COURT: I may be issuing an Order to 23 Show Cause, or I may issue a ruling on the motion 24 itself, immediately. It just depends. But I'm 25 usually very proactive, and I will issue a ruling ofFAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 15

1 some kind, shortly after I receive your amended 2 filing. 3 MR. SPITZER: Certainly, Your Honor. 4 THE COURT: Is there anything else that I 5 can address for your client today? 6 MR. SPITZER: I think that pretty much 7 covers all the questions the administrator had. 8 THE COURT: Okay. Let me ask you this, Mr. 9 Spitzer, since this is the first time that we've had a 10 chance to talk, you are located in Seattle? Where are 11 you located, in Renton? 12 MR. SPITZER: Renton, Washington. 13 THE COURT: And what area do you actually 14 cover? Because typically, Judge Goodwin handles most 15 of the West Coast, although sometimes we have some mix 16 of cases. Where all do you go? 17 MR. SPITZER: Typically, I cover the State 18 of Washington, and a little bit of Idaho. 19 THE COURT: And have you been doing this job 20 for a long period of time? 21 MR. SPITZER: Yes, I've transferred recently 22 to the Northwest Mountain Region, but I've been with 23 the agency, I believe nine years, this year. 24 THE COURT: Where is the Northwest Mountain 25 Region?FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 16

1 MR. SPITZER: We're located in Renton, 2 Washington, and we ... 3 THE COURT: But you just recently came to 4 this particular office? 5 MR. SPITZER: That's correct. 6 THE COURT: From where did you come? 7 MR. SPITZER: From the Eastern Region. 8 THE COURT: And what part of the Eastern 9 Region? 10 MR. SPITZER: Well, the office is in 11 Jamaica, New York, and I handled cases throughout the 12 balance of the region. 13 THE COURT: You moved across the country. 14 MR. SPITZER: That's correct. 15 THE COURT: Quite a large move ... were you 16 familiar with the Western Region before this? 17 MR. SPITZER: The first time I had been out 18 to Seattle, was when I had my job interview out here. 19 THE COURT: This Court lived in Seattle for 20 25 years, and is well familiar with the area. 21 Although I am no longer there, I will wish you every 22 happiness. It's a lovely area in which to live for 23 most people. 24 MR. SPITZER: Thank you, Your Honor. I 25 couldn't agree more.FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 17

1 THE COURT: Well then, with that it appears 2 our business is complete. I wish you good luck in 3 your further representation of your client in this 4 matter. I'll look forward to receiving any further 5 motions that you might have to offer. And we can now 6 go off the record. I wish you all a good day. Thank 7 you. 8 MR. SPITZER: Thank you, Your Honor. 9 THE COURT: Bye-bye. 10 (WHEREUPON, the hearing was concluded at 1:57 p.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 18

1 STIPULATION 2 3 The foregoing matter was taken on the date, and at 4 the time and place set out on the title page hereof. 5 6 It was requested that the matter be taken by the 7 reporter and that the same be reduced to typewritten 8 form. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 251 2 3 4

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25 24 23 22 **CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER AND SECURE ENCRYPTED**

I, **Andrea F. Mikus** , do hereby certify that the foregoing matter was reported by stenographic and/or mechanical means, that same was reduced to written form, that the transcript prepared by me or under my direction, is a true and accurate record of same to the best of my

This transcript and certificate have been digitally the action filed or its outcome. knowledge and ability; that there is no relation nor

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Court Reporter **SIGNATURE AND DELIVERY OF CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT**

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**Andrea F. Mikus** 23RD JUNE 2015FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 20

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R real 11:25FAA vs Select Aviation Serv Hearing June 16, 2015 VR # 2406-1 Page 25

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