Farm, Ranch, and Rural Communities Committee (FRRCC) Conference Call to Approve Land Use Advice Letter

Meeting Minutes

May 19, 2009 1:00 PM – 2:00 PM EDT

Designated Federal Officer (DFO) – Alicia Kaiser Associate DFO – Chris Ashcraft Jim Moseley – Chair of FRRCC

ROLL CALL

Members : Jim Andrew Richard Bonanno Garth Boyd Chris Chinn Otto Doering Tom Franklin Earl Garber Ralph Grossi Karri Hammerstrom Tom McDonald Jim Moseley Dave Nelson Dennis Treacy Jay Vroom Jeff Vonk Doug Young EPA Employees : Chris Ashcraft Pat Cimino Khanna Johnston Alicia Kaiser Melissa Kramer Jenny Noke Members of the Public : David Beaudreau John Bonitz Tom Hance Don Parrish Kent Splitman

At 1:00 PM EST Alicia Kaiser, DFO, started the conference call: Alicia Kaiser: Hello everyone this is the call to approve the draft FRRCC Land Use White Paper. We are just waiting one more minute to get started while we are waiting for a few more members to join the call, thank you.

Hello everyone I'm Alicia Kaiser here at EPA, the DFO for the Farm, Ranch and Rural Communities and you are partic ipating in the call to approve the draft land use white paper that the committee has been preparing over the

course of the last few months. So with that I think I'll let Jim Moseley open the call if he's ready.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 1Jim Moseley: Yes good afternoon everyone. First thi ng we want to do - Alicia's already laid out that the - that we are working on the land use white paper that's been developed by the Emerging Issues Wo rkgroup and that's my phone going off and I apologize I'll shut it off. Sorry.

The first thing we want to do is let's take a roll of the membership that's on the

call. And I don't know how to do this ot her than just have people speak up. Again this is Jim Moseley and I'll turn it to the next pe rson that speaks up.

Roll Call: The roll call occurred over the ne xt fifteen minutes. The Committee was short one member of a majority (only 15 of 30) so Chris Ashcraft, Associate DFO FRRCC, called any members not on the line to see if they could participate. Chris was able to reach Richard Bonanno, making the total number of

members 16. Alicia Kaiser then conduc ted a roll call of the people in the room, EPA employees, and members of the public. While Chris Ashcraft was calling members the Committee began to disc uss the paper, but did not vote or conduct any official business since they did not have 16 members. Once they had Richard Bonanno on the line they were able to conduct official business.

Ralph Grossi: Jim this is Ralph, you know, mi ght it be possible to go through and simply identify those areas where there will be i ssues raised, so we can sort of begin to catalog them?

Jim Moseley: As far as I'm concerned I thi nk, you know, we can't conduct official business but we can certainly listen. I think that's the case, I'm not sure if Alicia's still

on the line. But I think that's the case.

Alicia Kaiser: Jim this is Alicia. I just wanted to say real quick, our line was muted because I was conferring with somebody here on that, but we can - we can talk as much, I mean as long as we've got everyone on the phone we can go ahead and

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 2discuss this as much as we want. We ju st need the numbers to be right to be able to actually approve the letter. So we can go ahead with our conversation,

yes.

Jim Moseley: Let's do that and find out where we are and then we'll see what happens here. Ralph I'm going to just turn to you and let's - we've already taken up 12 minutes or so. Let's just go ahead and just get started on this.

Ralph Grossi: Okay thanks Jim. So just a brie f review of the four-page paper. You all got a

modified version from Alicia this morn ing with some additional fine-tuning of language and some proposed changes. Just a reminder this paper has been worked on by the Emerging Issues Workgroup since last year.

It was a first draft in the fall th at was discussed by the workgroup and displayed before the full committee. Then a number of drafts between the fall and spring meeting was discussed agai n by the Emerging Issues Workgroup in February and the - then it was ope ned for full committee input anytime between - after February.

I have to say I didn't receive much in the way of comments from committee

members. And then another draft was se nt out a couple of weeks ago to the workgroup. The workgroup made some additional comments. Those have been incorporated.

The last comments that were incorporat ed I highlighted in yellow since even the workgroup has not had a chance to comment again since those changes

and additions were made. There are on ly two very substantial additions.

One was in the first paragraph, some language in the first paragraph and the other was on Page 4 in the biofue l section language suggested by Jim Andrews. I hope by now you've all had a chance to review this many times.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 3The first section is kind of a general section then a section on urbanization and EPA's role, market forces, emerging farmers and generation (unintelligible) issues, biofuels and regulations. And some proposed EPA role. I think you'll see that in most cases we are asking for EPA to collaborate with other agencies.

And that's just a quick ov erview of the four-page pape r. It would of course be sent with a cover letter to the administrator if approved by the full committee.

Jim Moseley: Okay Ralph, thank you. Let's have discussion in kind of two groups here. If there's any committee member at this moment that wants to put thoughts forward hopefully you've all had the chan ce here over the last - I know I've gotten several emails over the last couple of weeks on this - to review this and get your thoughts in.

But if there's some views right now that need to come forward let's have the committee members make those comments and then we'll go to members of the public.

Otto Doering: Jim, its Otto Doering.

Jim Moseley: Hi Otto.

Otto Doering: First I want you to know that my corn is planted.

Jim Moseley: Wonderful.

Otto Doering: Secondly...

Jim Moseley: Keeping our pr iorities straight here.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 4Otto Doering: I think in this document at times we ask EPA to do some things that they have never traditionally done. Where we talk about planning grants and getting involve in land use planning that's an example.

And maybe the way to handle is that Ra lph if in the cover letter you indicate

to the administrator that we understand that we're asking EPA to take some expanded roles here in areas they have not operated. But we feel these roles are very important and no one else is willing to step up to the plate and take

them.

Ralph Grossi: Okay. Good suggestion.

Jay Vroom: Jim this is Jay Vroom, I have a c ouple of specific suggestions that I think are pretty straight forward that might help with some additional clarification along perhaps along some of the same line that Otto was referring. So the first place I would make a suggestion is in - on Pa ge 1 the EPAs role section there, which is currently one sentence.

I'd suggest that we add an additional sent ence ahead of the one that's there that would read something to the effect that while land use planning is a state and

local matter in the United States acti ons by the Federal Government do impact those other levels of government in their work.

So in essence what I'm trying to do is to suggest that we have a preamble statement to this EPA role paragraph th at explicitly acknowledges that land use planning in our country is a state and local matter to ki nd of set that up.

And then in the sentence itself it's ther e working with other Federal agencies.

I would suggest that it be other Fede ral agencies and the states. EPA should develop a policy - I would strike the wo rd policy and replace that with the

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 5word framework approach. I fear that policy may be a stronger word than really was intended there.

Just some thoughts as a way to perhaps make that particular EPA role kind of

recommendation statement a little clearer and then on Page 2 in the middle...

Ralph Grossi: Could we - Jim as a matter of pr ocedure here should we deal with each one and say suggestion as they come along or...

Jim Moseley: That was my inclination actually...

Jay Vroom: I didn't know if we could do that without having a quorum, I'm sorry.

Ralph Grossi: And I would just say that I think those are - thos e are just very good suggestions on Jay's part. I certainly wouldn't have any concern at all at putting them in.

Jim Moseley: And I guess that's my conclusi on, but I would - any other committee members - let's put it this way. Any other committ ee members have an objection to that kind of inclusion of language.

Alicia Kaiser: You know what, this is Alicia Kaiser here. I am trying to - this is a really odd situation to try to be doing business w ithout a quorum or trying not to even since we don't have a quorum.

So I'm kind of - I'm conversing with the authority here on these matter, Khanna Johnston, and I might want to br eak in here and have Khanna kind of explain what we're - what we're exactly allowed to do and not do right now.

Jim Moseley: That's good because we were prepar ed to beg for forgiveness, but if we have legal counsel that can help us while we'll avoid that.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 6Khanna Johnston: And you know, technically we should probably not be having substantive discussions. So as long as comments are put forward and each individual just states their opinion. And the committee as a whole does not vote on each individual comment or say we accept th is comment maybe for right now just go ahead and receive indi vidual comment on the document and not make the group come to any form of consensus.

I think that allows you to use this time fruitfully and keep moving forward. But unfortunately you'll have to come back together as a committee or hopefully Chris is outside making tele phone calls trying to get one more person to join. And then you'll be able to vote as a committee and make the decisions that you need to make.

But until then just - I think I woul d suggest just accept each individual comment for what it's worth and maybe Jim just get Alicia to document it and then keep moving forward.

Jim Moseley: Okay if that's the case then Ral ph I think we need to just let Jay go ahead and make his point.

Ralph Grossi: Are you saying that we can't even ask for any comments on the suggestions?

Khanna Johnston: Unfortunately yes because it i nvokes what our legal couns el would advise us

as substantive discussions.

Alicia Kaiser: Sorry guys.

Khanna Johnston: Sorry, I mean I'm sorry it seems like such a waste of time to set up a conference call but, you know ..

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 7Alicia Kaiser: Chris is still making calls.

Jim Moseley: All right.

Alicia Kaiser: He's giving us a nod I think we have one more person coming on. Yes I hear him reading the phone number to a pers on so we got one. Maybe - do we just want to put this on hold for a second until they join?

Jim Moseley: Yes let's just do that. Tell th em that we're waiting on them, how's that. And then while you're doing that while we' ll decide whether we're going to crucify this person or applaud this person.

Chris Chinn: Exactly. Jim and Ralph before we do that I want to let you guys know I'm going to have to sign off in about ten mi nutes to leave for another meeting. So before you go to too much trouble I just wanted to make you aware that I'm not going to be able to be on here for the full time.

Jim Moseley: Well you'd better get two more then Chris. I mean Alicia. Better get two more. Just stay on Chris.

Chris Chinn: I'll stay on as long as I can, but I had a prior commitment and I didn't realize this was going to be an hour-long call. I'm sorry I apologize.

Ralph Grossi: We'll accept your proxy vote.

Otto Doering: This is Otto I'm in a somewhat similar situation I've ju st gotten on an airplane and I'll stay until they close the door.

Alicia Kaiser: I think I just heard the beep of Rich Bonanno joining, did I, was I right?

Richard Bonanno: Yes I'm here.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 8Alicia Kaiser: Hi Rich thank you so much for joining.

Alicia Kaiser: We've got 10 minut es to do whatever we can. So...

Jim Moseley: Okay so let's go move forward. Ralph you want to take it here and (Jay) in fact (Jay) put your other thought on the table as quick as possible.

Jay Vroom: Okay. On Page 2 under Market Forc es, the first full para graph ends with the words, "Let the long-term impacts of these changes are less certain.” I would propose that we strike those words a nd end that sentence after the words environmental impacts. That’s it.

Jim Moseley: I’ll second that.

Ralph Grossi: Okay. That ’s all you have, Jay?

Jay Vroom: Yes.

Ralph Grossi: Okay. We have others Jim?

Jim Moseley: That’s what I’m - you take the lead and let’s go ahead.

Ralph Grossi: Are there any other comments on the paper, anywhere in the paper?

Dave Nelson: Ralph and I’ve got two quick ones.

Ralph Grossi: Okay.

Dave Nelson: They have fiber in their food, fuel, fiber and feed supply. Fiber is pretty important too, to the use of our farmlands.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 9Ralph Grossi: Yes.

Jim Moseley: No objections.

Dave Nelson: Then in the second paragraph, I would strike the last sentence “productions keeps on in agricultur e”. I don’t think it’s to remain topic and kind of raises a red flag to...

Ralph Grossi: Where are you again?

Dave Nelson: The third paragraph, first page.

Ralph Grossi: Okay.

Dave Nelson: The last sentence I would propose to delete that.

Ralph Grossi: The one that st arts with, “wild bio fuels?”

Dave Nelson: Because they’re alrea dy addressing it in a whole section.

Ralph Grossi: Is there any concer n about that? Anyone else? Okay.

Jim Moseley: I wouldn’t fall on my sword over it , but I don’t think that it’s particularly a problematic sentence, so I’m curious David as to the rationale behind extracting it. In fact, I see it as being somewhat useful.

Ralph Grossi: Okay, any other comments?

Jim Moseley: Isn't that pretty much the reason - I mean that was the stimulus for the letter.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 10Dave Nelson: But it’s highlighted al l in another - in its own section.

Ralph Grossi: Yes.

Dave Nelson: So it doesn’t sound like your main opening section.

Ralph Grossi: Okay, other suggestions from anyone?

Jeff Vonk: This is Jeff Vonk. Ralph, I guess I have a concern over the additional paragraph at the top of Page 4. It seems like what we’re doing in that paragraph predominantly is commenti ng on a proposed rule as opposed to identifying an emerging issue.

If this committee is going to comm ent on a rule, we ought to do it as a committee or else we ought not to do that as a committee and let individuals comment on proposed rules and I gue ss I would have an objection to including that paragraph.

Ralph Grossi: On process as much as substance?

Jeff Vonk: Correct.

Ralph Grossi: In terms of commenting on proposed rules?

Jeff Vonk: Yes.

Ralph Grossi: Okay, I’ll turn to Jim Andrews since this was Ji m’s suggestion and he worked with counsel on this to put this wording together.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 11Jim Andrews: Yes, I first all commend the work group on the outs tanding job they did putting all this paper together . I did feel there was a need to put this specific

information in.

It’s a Renewable Fuel Standard that ha s more or less hit the ground here in the last two weeks and has caused a great d eal of information out here in farm country.

I’m staring at the - when people out in the Midwest hear land use, the first thing that comes to their mind, I think, is indirect land use as a part of the

Renewable Fuel Standard 2 and so there’ s a great deal of concern that we’re going to lose the battle before we’ve even had a chance to state the case.

And that’s why I inserted this paragra ph and also wanted to make it clear that this is not our final comment, that th e Bio Fuels and Climate Change working group have been tasked with review ing RFS2 and coming up with more specific comments and recommendations to make to the FRRCC to possibly

be submitted to the administrator.

Karri Hammerstrom: This is Karri Hammerstrom. I would add a comme nt to that as well. In the earlier version, the comment was that we were not asked to provide comment on the proposed rule so as an emerging issue, that probably should have been something that we should have been able to comment on.

But I think the comments as proposed in there, I think, are very germane to emerging issues.

Jim Andrew: I agree.

Ralph Grossi: Others?

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 12Man: This is (unintelligible), I agree as well.

Ralph Grossi: Agree with?

Man: Agree with leaving it in.

Ralph Grossi: Leaving it in.

Garth Boyd: I agree.

Ralph Grossi: Are there other comments about that paragraph, the substance of it, the way it’s written? Who’s there? Jim, my su ggestion would be that once we get all the comments in, that we just come back and vote these issues up or down

unless there’s obvious consensus.

Jim Moseley: Yes, I agree. I hope you’re k eeping - let’s do that, I hope you’re keeping...

Ralph Grossi: I’m trying to keep track here. Other comments about the paper? If there aren’t, Jim, I’ll turn it back to you and we can start to go through the specifics.

Jim Moseley: Okay, the - I feel it's a time c onstraint here. Otto are you still on or off?

Ralph Grossi: Otto’s off.

Jim Moseley: Otto’s off.

Otto Doering: I am on for about two more minutes.

Jim Moseley: All right, here ’s the deal. Real quick, public comment, does anyone feel a compelling need to make, from the public, to make a comment on this discussion at this point in time?

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 13Don Parrish: This is Don Parrish with American Farm Bureau Federation.

Jim Moseley: Yes, Don.

Don Parrish: Again, Chris has been really, really busy this time of year on the farm and we have not, as an organization, really ha d an opportunity to review this and I know from the standpoint of this being you guys and it’s your committee, I think that’s good.

But I think before you guys pass something along, you probably ought to reach out broader to the agricultural co mmunity as it relates to land use and seek broader input from some of the Ag organizations.

I know a lot of them are doing things to, you know, to confr ont this issue of urbanization or from the standpoint of, you know, emerging farmers in generational transitions.

There’s a lot of good things that are going on out there that you ought to at

least hear about from some of the farm organizations before you put a final, you know, dot on this because until just recently, I had not seen this.

And, you know, again I think it is a pape r that could have some very profound implications, you know, along the lines of what I’ve heard already spoken

here.

I mean just the idea of, you know, an EPA role in local and state decisions regarding land use is quite a shift. And I would en courage you guys to think very carefully as you move forward just how you want to insert yourself into

that issue.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 14I know that it’s an important issu e. I know that, you know, looking ahead, we’ve got to be productive so that, y ou know, we’re able to produce food and fiber for not only 6 billion pe ople but 9 billion people soon.

But I would encourage you to deal with this issue very carefully because within our organization, we have member s that span the spectrum. We have members that care very deeply about their land that you would - almost as emotionally as they would a family member.

We also have members in our organizati on that view land as a capital asset, no

different from cash or bonds or stocks. And then in a lot of cases, are a lot more sound and, you know, that is the capital they use to invest in technology and productive capacity.

So just as a word of caution or as an ask, as you guys think about this and you develop this, I would encourage you to ope n this discussion up broader to the ag community and maybe have a listeni ng session beyond this as to what the impact of this could be on the broader ag community. And with that, I’ll be quiet. Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Jim Moseley: Okay, I’m going to turn it back to Ralph but I will make the comment that I think that the goal here of the work group in the sense of Ralph and this group has been to do precisely that.

So to present those issues and to make EPA and the administrator aware of

what the views are out there from the broader agriculture and forestry group. So I don’t know that there’s anything he re that’s countered to what has been suggested.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 15Now I’ll turn it back to Ralph. I susp ect we’ve lost an opportunity here to conduct and finalize our business, but Ra lph, now I’m going to go back to you and you comment.

Ralph Grossi: Okay, all right, there are two thi ngs that I’d at least like to accomplish, one is to make sure we get these concerns and edits made and that we have either consensus or an up and down vote on what those changes should be.

Even if we can’t get to a vote on the full paper today because as you can guess, this is a pretty frustrating process and Don, you know, let me speak directly to your comments.

I think what everyone has to recogniz e here is that this is a 30-member committee. This is not all of agricultur e but its pretty well represented on the committee and the committee members who represent different areas of agriculture, need to take their role seriously.

This paper has been properly noticed, distributed, discussed over more than six months, so a little disappointing when I hear we haven’t had a chance to

see it.

So on process, I don’t know what we do because we can always have somebody come up and say, gee, I just got this yesterday, but we do have people on the committee whose job it is to raise issues. That’s a process issue. On the question of land use and EPA, I think my reaction to that is we’re not starting with a clean slate.

EPA is deeply involved in influencing la nd use in various ways in this country and I think the paper is intended to pu t out some brackets around that, provide some suggestions for framework and pr etty heavily suggest that voluntary

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 16approaches and working with USDA and other agencies is the proper way to

go.

I mean we already have EPA involve d in Smart Growth Initiatives and working with local governments on air qua lity so there’s a number of places where EPA is already involved. We’re trying to offer some guidance here where the work group is.

So those are - I’ll open it up again for any additional comments and after that, Jim, what I’m going to suggest is I go dow n the list of things that I believe are accepted by consensus on the call and so we can get to the one or two things that might require a vote if we still have enough people to vote.

Jim Moseley: Okay, that’s fine. So any other - let’s take Ralph’s l ead on that - any other comments now from the public?

Tom Hans: Yes, I will take this opportunity. This is Tom Hans with American Soybean Association. As a follow up to the disc ussion on the international indirect land use, you know, it seems to me that, you know, a document within EPA on land use at a time when there are multiple congressional hearings going on, on international indirect land use as legi slation has been introduced, it’s a front burner issue to say the least, with numerous studies being conducted.

It seems to me that this committee, w ho is tasked with providing advice to the administrator on issues of impact to farmers and rural communities, the fact that they did not have the opportuni ty to have input into the EPAs international indirect land use assump tions and determinations phases were finalized in the proposed rule.

It's certainly a concern and to me, br ings into the question the relevance and credibility of the committee of EPAs framework here. So I ju st put that there

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 17for the record and understand that the other committee is going to be now undertaking a review of that proposed rule and possibly having developed

there.

But it seems it would have been more pr udent to have that into the process when that was under consideration by EPA before they published the proposed rule and in my opinion, the committee should push the administrator

and EPA to consult them these d ecisions before they are made.

Jim Moseley: Point very well made and point very well taken. I don’t think there’s anything

else that needs to be said. That stake is driven in the ground. Thank you. Okay, any other comments? All right.

Ralph Grossi: If not, Jim, if you’d like, I’ll go th rough and read off a few of the items that I think are probably going to be adopted by consensus.

Jim Moseley: Okay.

Ralph Grossi: Are we okay on doing that? Y ou know, we’re working against a horrible constraint here, not enough members, which is very disturbing to me. But back to Alicia, where are we at here?

Alicia Kaiser: We should have still enough number s as long as Otto is still on the phone. Has Otto had to leave yet?

Otto During: Otto is on until the sword hits me over the head.

Alicia Kaiser: Okay.

Jim Moseley: So move.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 18Alicia Kaiser: Keep going, let’s go.

Ralph Grossi: Okay, very quickly then. We had so me of the things I think we can just accept

is Otto’s comments about the cover lett er and mention of the new roles of

EPA.

Jay had a suggestion to change policy to framework approach, which seemed fine to me, but I’ll defer to others if there’s an objection and also to add a sentence that was a preamble to that role regarding land use planning as a traditional role of state and local governments. And we’ll get the exact wording on that and circulate it around.

Nelson comments about adding fiber with food, fuel and feed and deleting the third sentence of the third - or the last sentence of the third paragraph.

Jim Moseley: Ralph, let’s take these. While we’re here, let’s just take them. In fact, back up one or two there. Otto’s comments, any objection? Okay. Jay’s comments?

Ralph Grossi: That would be a bout framework approach or the lead sentence on EPA’s role.

Jim Moseley: I hear none. That’s consensus right?

Ralph Grossi: Yes.

Jim Moseley: Okay, now (Dave)’s comments on adding fiber? And then now we’re caught up. Dave’s second comment was...

Ralph Grossi: To delete the final sentence in the third paragraph, the one that starts with, “while bio fuels feed production.” - "feed stock production keeps land and agriculture." Any objection?

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 19Jim Moseley: I didn’t hear whoever spoke there.

Ralph Grossi: None.

Alicia Kaiser: Yes, just keep on moving.

Jim Moseley: Okay. There was a comment, I wa nt to make sure on this one because there was a comment someone said, I thought that’s the reason why we kind of did this part of the paper anyway. So Dave is suggesting that we scratch that sentence. I’m going to scratch it with cons ensus. If anyone wants to object to that, do so now.

Otto During: Okay, scratch it with consensus. I have to turn off the ce ll phone, this is Otto.

Jim Moseley: Okay, all right.

Alicia Kaiser: Thanks Otto.

Jim Moseley: Move ahead.

Ralph Grossi: We are left with several questions about the first paragraph on the fourth page. This was the paragraph added this past week.

Jim Moseley: Yes.

Ralph Grossi: Can we have a discussion about it?

Jim Moseley: Okay, yes. I don’t think we can do anything. Am I righ t on that Alicia? But

we can have a discussion as long as it is not subsidy?

Alicia Kaiser: That’s correct, thank you.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 20Jim Moseley: I don’t know what a non-subsidy discussion is but...

Jim Moseley: Okay, while we’re on the phone, le t’s have a discussion about that. There are two different viewpoints here, let’s get them out there.

Jay Vroom: Jim, this is Jay Vroom, I would just say that I agree with the comments about

the fact that the indirect land use issue associated with bio fuels evaluation is the number one land use issue of the day and it seems appropriate to include it

in this document at this time.

Jim Moseley: Okay. Any other comments beca use we can’t do any action now, but any comments? So Ralph, you have some framework now you have to - and for us

to come back.

I assume what we’re going to have to do here to complete this process is go through and find a time that we can ge t the group back together on a phone call again. Am I correct on that Alicia?

Chris Ashcraft: That’s correct a nd the other option is we’ll have another teleconference call in July, but we’ll have to wait and see on that, but we can easily do another federal register notice that does follow a later date.

Jim Moseley: Okay and I hear the phone b eeping. I’m assuming we’re losing people now.

Ralph Grossi: I mean clearly this will give D on and others a chance to circulate this paper more widely among their constituents as well. I’m taking from the conversation, this non-substance of conve rsation we’re having, that generally

it makes some sense to deal with th e indirect land use in this paper.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 21Jeff Vonk): This is Jeff again. Before I hang up, I would say if you feel - if the paper is going to deal with it, it needs to deal with it as an emerging issue, not a comment on a proposed rule to ge t my vote on the whole paper.

Jim Moseley: Can I ask, Jeff, if you have some su ggested language, we can try to work it in. You’re saying as more generically as an issue than in the context of the

Renewable Fuel Standard?

Jeff Vonk: Yes.

Jim Moseley: Yes.

Tom McDonald: This is Tom Mc Donald. I think one of Jay’s comments also was under market forces on Page 2. Did we - as we we re adopting Jay’s comments, did you get

that one?

Ralph Grossi: Yes, I’m sorry I passed over it but it was to drop that parenthetical statement at the end of the paragraph.

Jim Moseley: Yes.

Tom McDonald: I just wanted to ma ke sure that one didn’t get lost.

Jim Moseley: Thanks, Tom. All right, I hear a lot of clicks so we may be winding down to you and I having a conversation here Ra lph and Jay and Tom. I think we’ve probably come as far as we can go.

If anyone has a point now, raise it bu t my apologies to you, Ralph, that this happened the way it did. I know you’d like to get this to completion. I appreciate you saying, the good news is that maybe this will get wider distribution and more people will take a look at it.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 22I do believe your intent was honorable and what you are accomplish, was on behalf of agricultural. So there’s no question about what you are trying to do here, we just ran into a process problem.

So unless there’s another comment here or Ralph you have a question that you would like to put on the table for those few that may be remaining the call, I think what we need to do is move towards an adjournment.

And I do believe that my sense is, un less you have a different view, that we ought to come back to a more immediat e addressing of this issue than waiting until July.

In other words, set a notice of a time frame. I will write a note about discipline if you’re going to say you’re going to be on a call because of the rule. If it wasn’t for the rule, then it wouldn’t be an issue, but because of the rule, we have to have people on the call.

And we’ll survey the group, we’ll get the federal register notice out as necessary and we’ll get a nother call and get this completed for you, Ralph.

Ralph Grossi: No, I’m sincere in saying I hope, you know, anyone who feels they just need

additional comments on their institutions that this is the chance to do it but I would hope we could continue to move this forward, get it wrapped up in the next couple months.

Jim Moseley: Yes, I agree.

Richard Bonanno: This is Rich.

Jim Moseley: Go ahead.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 23Richard Bonanno: I just wanted to make one comm ent. I understand that some people - that there are some people on this committee that are perhaps bound by the wishes of their employer in what they say and do on this committee.

But as we’ve been reminded so many times, if you’re not on this committee representing groups of people, we're on this committee as individuals that were selected because of diverse background.

So while I may pass things by people, I don’t feel any need to generate consensus among all the groups that I be long to, whether it's the vegetable growers or farm bureau or anybody else before I make a decision by someone

who votes on this committee. I listen to what everybody has to say but I don’t feel the need to get consensus from anybody on what I vote or how I vote.

Jim Moseley: Point very well made, Rich, I appreciate that.

Karri Hammerstrom: And this is Karri Hammers trom and I just have a question for Ralph although and I do agree with Rich’s comments. So as I understand the comment, we had enough on our committee to go through and approve all the comments up until that last paragraph and then the paper as a whole, is that

correct?

Alicia Kaiser: I believe that’s correct. Is that also your unders tanding, Ralph and Jim?

Jim Moseley: Yes where I came from, unless so mebody can show me differently with some

enthusiastic debate.

Karri Hammerstrom: Very good, thank you.

Jim Moseley: Thank you, Karry.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 24Unknown man: Can we get the revisions out pre tty soon so folks will have an opportunity to

do...

Alicia Kaiser: Definitely - this is Alicia, I will work on revising the paper according to all, you know, getting all the revisions that were approved into the paper. And

then we’ll send that back out and we’ll do a poll for dates again just immediately to try to get a new call set up for approval.

Jim Moseley: You know, we kind of went...

Unknown women: Excuse me?

Jim Moseley: ...go ahead.

Woman: Can we piggy back onto the other co mmittee call that we’re doing the survey for right now?

Alicia Kaiser: I’m not sure. They are probably going to be reviewing four advice letters on that call, which is a lot already to tackle in that call so I’m not real optimistic

that we can tack on more to that call at this point. I think the safest bet is to go ahead and poll for a separate call.

We also kind of need to take up the issue of the NANO Technology Paper so we can try to wrap those two issues into one call and not have it just be in vein that we’re having a second one here before August.

Jim Moseley: Okay. We kind of came to the sa me point - I don’t know if Jim is still on the call, Jim Andrews, but we kind of came to the same point with Jim, we may, as a matter of process, want to have a (false final) from this point forward

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 25because that final seems to get people stimulated at the last minute and then do the actual work, vote and so fo rth about two w eeks after that.

I know that’s a politically incorrect comm ent, but I just had to throw that out there for people’s generation. I hear some laughing. Okay, okay, anything else that we can do at this point in time?

Alicia Kaiser: I don’t think so Jim but thanks everybody for your effort.

Jim Moseley: Yes, Ralph, thank you. Thank you committee. We’ll do everything we can to bring this back. Let’s have a conversati on and see if we can also use the time more efficiently and if there’s other issu es that we can bring forward here, I’ll leave that up to you, Alicia and your fo lks to get that organized. But I thank all of you and we’ll try to get this done as quickly as we possibly can.

Ralph Grossi: Thank you, Jim.

Alicia Kaiser: Thank you.

Man: Bye.

Ralph Grossi: Bye, Jim.

Alicia Kaiser: Bye, bye.

Jim Moseley: Bye, bye.

Operator: The leader has disconnect ed. The conference will now end.

END 2:00 PM EDT

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 26Meeting Participants

Members: James R. Moseley (Chair of FRRCC) Owner Jim Moseley Farms, Inc.

James O. Andrew Owner Andrew Farms, Inc.

Richard Bonanno Owner Pleasant Valley Gardens

Garth W. Boyd, Ph.D. Senior Vice President Camco Global

Christine Chinn Manager Chinn Hog Farm

Otto Doering Professor, Dept. of Agricultural Economics Purdue Euniversity

Thomas M. Franklin Senior Vice President Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership

Earl J. Garber President Louisiana Association of Conservation Districts

Ralph Grossi President American Farmland Trust

Karri M. Hammerstrom Co-Owner Hammertime Ranch

Tom McDonald Vice President for Environmental Affairs Five Rivers Ranch Cattle Feeding

Dave Nelson Chairman of the Board Global Ethanol

Jeffrey R. Vonk Secretary South Dakota Department of Game, Fish, and Parks

Jay Vroom President CropLife America

Douglas Young General Partner Spruce Haven Farm

Designated Federal Officer :

Alicia Kaiser Special Assistant for Agricultural Policy U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Christopher Ashcraft Junior Designated Federal Officer FRRCC U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

EPA Participants :

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 27Khanna Johnston U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Pat Cimino U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Melissa Krammer U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Jenny Noke U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Members of the Public :

David Beaudreau

John Bonitz

Tom Hance

Don Parrish Kent Splitman

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 28These minutes are an accurate depiction of the matters discussed during this meeting.

*

_________________________________________ James R. Moseley Chair Farm, Ranch, and Rural Communities Committee

The Farm, Ranch, and Rural Communities Committee is a federal advisory committee chartered by Congress, operating under the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA; 5 U.S.C., App.2). The Committee provides advice to the Administrator of th e U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on a broad range of environmental issues. The findings and recommendations of the Committee do not represent the views of the Agency, and this document does not represent information approved or disseminated by EPA.

*

I, James R. Moseley, approve that the afore transcribed meeting minutes for the May 19, 2009 FRRCC Conference Call are an accurate description of the matters discussed during this meeting. Signed June 27, 2009.

May 19, 2009 Farm, Ranch, and Rural Comm unities Advisory Committee Meeting Summary 29