Date: December 17, 2014

Case: Energy Conservation Standards Public Meeting: RFI About Gas

Compressors

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U-010

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

Phone: 202-347-3700

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Energy Conservation Standards Public Meeting: RFI About Gas Compressors

December 17, 2014

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Energy Conservation Standards Public Meeting: RFI About Gas Compressors 

December 17,2014 

U. S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY 

ENERGY CONSERVATION STANDARDS PUBLIC MEETING: 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ABOUT GAS COMPRESSORS 

FORRESTAL BUILDING 

ROOM 4A-104 

1000 INDEPENDENCE AVENUE, SW 

WASHINGTON, D C 20585 

.• 

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2014 

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Energy Conservation Standards Public Meeting: RFI About Gas Compressors

December 17, 2014

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1 PARTICIPANTS/ORGANIZATIONS:

2

Doug Brookman, Public Solutions

3 Jim Raba, U. S. Department of Energy

4 John Cymbalsky, U. S. Department of Energy

5 Rob Boteler, Nidec Motor Motor Corporation

6 Terry Boss, Interstate Natural Gas

7

Association of America

8 Steven Rosenstock, Edison Electric Institute

9

Andrew deLaski, Appliance Standards Awareness Project

10 Shabnam Sharbatoghlie, General Electric Company

F,. 11 Christopher Bolduc, Lawrence Berkeley National

12 Laboratory

13 Milica Grahovac, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

14 Brian Coffey, Navigant Consulting, Inc.

15 Daniel Weintraub, Navigant Consulting, Inc.

16 Michael Brown, Navigant Consulting, Inc.

17 Kurt Klinke, Navigant Consulting, Inc.

18 Michael Kido, U. S. Department of Energy

19 Johanna Hariharan, U.S. Department of Energy

20 Alex Krowka, Energetics Incorporated

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Energy Conservation Standards Public Meeting: RFI About Gas Compressors

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I Appeared via phone and Webinar

2

3 Simone Bassani, GE Oil & Gas

4 Gary Choquette, Pipeline Research Council

5 International

6 Chad Brahler, ACI Services, Inc.

7 Tristan Brown, Van Ness Feldman LLP

8 Brian Buynacek, Emerson

9 Dan Hannon, Ariel Corporation

10 Tony Gioffredi, Zahroof Valves Inc.

11 John Rinaldo, Atlas Copco Comptec Inc.

12 Gregg Arney, Southern California Gas Company

13 Terry Brennan, Government of Canada

14 Robert Buckingham, ABB

15 Jeff Chini, Southern California Gas Company

16 Randy Dal Molin, Hoerbiger Corp of America

17 S. Delmotte, Dresser-Rand Company

18 John Dutton, J-W Energy Company

19 Lesley Fleischman, Clean Air Task Force

20 Paul Hosking, John Crane Inc.

21 Vijeta Jangra, Navigant Consulting, Inc.

22 Kendra Kostek, Boundary Stone Partners

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I Todd McGregor, Hycornp Inc.

2 Jeff Navin, Boundary Stone Partners

3 Norm Shade, ACI Services, Inc.

4 Van Smith, Van Ness Feldman LLP

5 Richard Stasyshan, Compressed Air & Gas Institute

6 Markus Zeller, BC Hydro

7 Eric Fierson, Caterpillar Inc.

8 Bill Scales, Scales Industrial Technologies, Inc. /

9 Compressed Air Challenge

10 Linda Wilson, State of New York, Office of the Attorney

11 General

12 Daniel McGivney, Southern California Gas Company

13 Mary Whitfield, Williams Gas Pipeline - Transco

14 Lou York, Case Controls

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Energy Conservation Standards Public Meeting: RFI About Gas Compressors

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1 PROCEEDINGS

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's get started. Good

3 morning everyone. Welcome. This is the U. S.

4

Department of Energy's Energy Conservation Standards

5 Public Meeting: A Request for Information About Gas

6 Compressors.

7

Today is Wednesday, December 17, 2014,

8 here in the Forrestal Building in Washington, D. C.

9 Welcome everyone. Glad to see you this morning. My

10 name is Doug Brookman, Public Solutions, Baltimore.

11 Glad to see you.

12 We're going to start with welcoming

13 remarks from John Cymbalsky.

14 MR. CYMBALSKY: Thank you, Doug. My

I5 name's John Cymbalsky. I am the Program Manager for

16 Appliance Standards here at DOE. I want to welcome

17 everyone to the meeting this morning.

18 As Doug mentioned, this meeting is about

f9 gas compressors, particularly, the RFI [request for

20 information] material. So, what we're going to be

21 talking about today is the technology and market

22 assessment for these products.

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1 DOE does understand there are other

2 issues regarding natural gas pipelines/compressors

that are in the news in the past month or so. We

4 will not be talking about the leakage and issues like

5 that that are being handled separately from this

6 rulemaking. So, what we do encourage is good debate

7 and some public data and comments on what you'll see

8 presented here today about the data and technology

9 market assessment that we've done to date. So,

10 thanks again for coming and look forward to a healthy

11 debate.

12 MR. BROOKMAN: We always start with

1 3 introductions and I'll commence with that right now. To

14 my immediate left here, your name and

15 organizational affiliation.

16 MR. RABA: Jim Raba, Department of

17 Energy.

18 MS. HARIHARAN: Johanna Hariharan,

19 General Counsel, Department of Energy.

2

0 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, Department of

21 Energy, Office of the General Counsel.

22 MR. COFFEY: Brian Coffey with Navigant

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1 Consulting.

2 MR. KLINKE: Kurt Klinke with Navigant

3 Consulting.

4 MR. BROWN: Michael Brown with Navigant

5 Consulting.

6 MR. WEINTRAUB: Dan Weintraub with

7 Navigant Consulting.

8 MS. GRAHOVAC: Milica Grahovac, Lawrence

9 Berkeley National Laboratory.

10 MR. BOLDUC: Chris Bolduc, LBNL.

11 MS. SHARBOTOGHLIE: Shabnam Sharbotoghlie

12 with GE.

13 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steven Rosenstock,

14 Edison Electric Institute.

15 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss, Interstate Natural

16 Gas Association of America.

17 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler, NIDEC Motor

18 Corporation, St. Louis.

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Welcome. Glad to see you

20 here this morning.

21 All of you received a packet of

22 information, I hope, as you checked in this morning.

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1 I'm going to do a very brief agenda review.

2 Immediately following this agenda review and some

3 other preliminary business, there's an opportunity

4 for opening remarks, anybody that wishes to make an

5 opening statement about key issues that matter to

6 your or your constituencies.

7 Following on from that, we're going to

8 have rulemaking process overview. We'll take a break

9 midmorning round about 10:30 or so, and moving on

X 10 directly legislative history and scope of coverage,

11 metrics and test procedures.

12 We'll break for lunch round about noonish or

13 so. And as we return from lunch, or whenever we

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get there, market assessment, then technology

15 assessment, then screening analysis. And we

16 anticipate today will be ending before the end of the

17 day, that is, lunch, after lunch, or around lunch,

18 sometime around there yet another opportunity for

19 closing remarks. Anybody that wishes to to make

20 supplemental comments, any issues that haven't been

21 covered sufficiently from your point of view, then

22 we'll adjourn whenever we conclude all this today.

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1 Many of you, a few new faces in the room,

2 and I'd ask for your consideration if you see on the

3 Slide Number 2 in your packet as you could please

4 listen as an ally, use short succinct statements and

5 keep the focus here, hold sidebar conversations to a

6 minimum or take them out of the room, and we'd ask

7 that each person speak one at a time, please say your

8 name for the record each time you speak. There will be

9 a complete transcript of this meeting made available.

10 If you could set your cell phones on silent mode at this

11 point that would be good, that would be appreciated.

12 We have several individuals calling in.

13 Alex said there were seven before, eleven now. You want

14 to just say who's signed on, so we have a sense at the

15 outset here.

16 MR. KROWKA: This is Alex Krowka,

17 Energetics Incorporated. Online we have Dan Hannon,

18 Eric Fierson, Gary Choquette, Gregg Arney, Jeff Chini,

19 Jeff Navin, Kendra Kostek, Linda Wilson, Mary

20 Whitfield, S. Delmotte, and Simone Bassani.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Great. Thank you, Alex.

22 The Department of Energy is trying hard

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1 to make these meetings totally accessible via the

2 web. We welcome all those via the web. If you would

3 please mute your phone while you're listening in

4 today, and if you wish to participate in the meeting,

5 you can raise your hand in the software that's

6 provided, and we'll hope to hear you in the room.

7 And if not, you can type your question or comment

8 into our webmaster and he will make sure that we

9 insert that comment or information into the meeting.

10 I'd also encourage all to submit

11 detailed, written comments. The Department really

12 benefits from having your thoughts, your comments in

13 writing in detail, and that is in addition to your

14 participation in the meeting today.

15 So, as I said at the outset, we welcome

16 now any opening statements from individuals, either

17 joining us here in the room or via the web.

18 No one here is wanting to do that. Do we

19 have anybody online? Nobody online. Okay.

20 So, then I think we'll proceed with the

21 content in the packet, and Jim Raba is our first

22 presenter.

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MR. RABA: Good morning everyone. I'm

Jim Raba, Department of Energy. I am the Project

Manager for Gas compressors. And we're going to look

today at an overview of the purpose of our public

meeting, which is to provide preliminary information

gathered from the Request for Information that was

published in the August 5 Federal Register, and invite

discussion about the impact of potential energy

conservation standards, both on the industry and the

Nation, also, will describe DOE's approach and process

when considering energy conservation

standards. And most of all, we would encourage your

input.

So, during today's presentations,

particular issues will be prompted for discussion on

the slides, such as this; otherwise, comments in any

part of the presentation are welcome throughout.

We will next provide overview of the

rulemaking process. Are there any questions thus

far? Okay.

Well, at this time, I'll turn it over to

Brian Coffey, Navigant Consulting, who will take us

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1 through the rulemaking, plus overview some more

2 background to help understand some more about the

3 rulemaking process. Brian.

4 MR. COFFEY: Well, good morning everyone.

5 My name is Brian Coffey, and I work for Navigant

6 Consulting in support of DOE's Appliance Standards

7 Program. We're here today to, number one, overview

8 the process that DOE would use in considering

9 standards for natural gas compressors; number two, to

10 overview some preliminary information assembled on

11 the gas compressor market and technology; and number

12 three, get feedback from the attendees at this

13 meeting, those of you in person and those of you on

14 the webinar.

15 Number three is really the most critical.

16 This is what is called a notice and comment

17 rulemaking, and that relies on DOE's receiving

18 comment from interested parties or you all. And so,

19 as Jim mentioned, DOE is inviting comment on specific

20 items with issue boxes, but please feel encouraged to

21 provide feedback on anything at all that you see

22 today.

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1 DOE got started in this business of

2 energy conservation standards for appliances in 1975

3 when Congress passed a bill called the Energy Policy

4 and Conservation Act, and that bill addressed 11

5 types of equipment, but also contained a clause

6 directing the Secretary of Energy to cover any other

7 type of equipment that met certain criteria, which

8 we'll examine in the next slide; but this is where

9 the legal authority to be doing this originates. And

10 at this point, DOE's in the very early stages of

11 exploring whether energy efficiency standards for

12 natural gas compressors could save energy costs

13 effectively.

14 So, let's have a look at those EPCA

15 factors. Like I said, EPCA directs DOE to consider

16 seven different factors. It's the economic impact on

17 consumers and manufacturers.

18 MR. BROOKMAN: That microphone is not

19 working. Can you make your comments from the table

20 because we know that's wired in, so that'll be on the

21 record?

22 Sorry, we have small technical glitches

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1 that we're dealing with at the moment, but we've got

2 an alternative plan. Back to Brian Coffey.

3 MR. COFFEY: All right, can everyone hear

4 me? Great.

5 So, I was just reading these EPCA

6 factors. It's the economic impact on consumers and

7 manufacturers, lifetime operating cost savings

S compared to increased equipment cost, total projected

9 energy savings, impact on utility performance, impact

10 of any lessening of competition, the need for

II national energy conservation, and then number seven

12 is a kind of a catch-all, any other factors that the

13 Secretary considers relevant.

14 And then in the right column, you can see

15 the specific analyses that DOE has to address each of

16 those factors. I should clarify that for today these

17 analyses have not yet been performed. Today is only

18 a high-level exploration of the gas compressor market

19 and technology, but all of these are analyses that

20 would be made available to the public if DOE does opt

21 to proceed with its rulemaking.

22 Next slide, please.

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MR. BROOKMAN: We have a question.

2 Please say your name for the record.

3 MR. BOSS: This is Terry Boss with

4 Interstate Natural Gas Association of America.

5 I've looked at your former analysis on

6 different locations, of which we're looking at. In

7 this particular application, we are transporting

8 fuels utilizing compressors on that, so it's part of

9 the transportation system. I don't know if that

10 affects the legislative type thing on that.

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Michael Kido, can you

12 respond.

13 MR. KIDO: It doesn't. In this context,

14 compressor is not defined by the statute at all. So,

15 in this context we're examining elements of how to

16 define what a compressor would be. And since the

17 statute gives us the authority to examine the

18 possibility of setting the standards for these types

19 of devices, we're just being consistent with that

20 requirement.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Brian.

22 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so next up is an

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1 overview of the rulemaking process itself. Up top in

2 green is the energy conservation standard. This is

3 what would ultimately tell the public which gas

4 compressors had to meet which performance levels.

5 And then below in blue chevrons is the test

6 procedure, which is a separate legal process, but

7 occurs in step with the energy conservation standard.

8 In order to publish a set of performance

9 standards, one must also very precisely specify how

10 performance is to be measured, and that's exactly

11 what the test procedure does. You can see the final

12 rule for the test procedure is published in step with

13 the NOPR, which is DOE's formal proposal for what

14 standards would be, and that allows the public to

15 consider the proposal in the context of how the

16 performance is going to be measured.

17 Time-wise, a normal energy conservation

18 standard rulemaking takes about three years from

19 start to finish, and a test procedure about one

20 half of that. So now, let's look at each stage in

21 detail.

22 Next slide, please.

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1 (Slide.)

2 MR. COFFEY: Typically, the process

3 begins with a request for information, letting the

4 public know that DOE is considering standards and

5 seeking information to help it decide how, if at all,

6 to regulate a product. In this case, DOE published

7 that RFI this past August and received comments from

8 six groups of stakeholders.

9 By the way, the RFI was, and any

10 subsequent documents would be, accompanied by a

11 notice published in the Federal Register. The

12 Federal Register, I think everybody probably knows,

13 is kind of the newspaper of the Executive Branch of

14 the Federal government, and so that would be the

15 place that DOE announces the completion of each

16 successive stage.

17 So, right now we're in the RFI stage.

18 And so, the next stage of the rulemaking would begin

1 9 with the publication of a framework document. DOE

20 may release, in the interim, a portion of that

21 document focusing on the market for and technology of

22 natural gas compressors.

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1 Next slide, please.

2 (Slide.)

3 MR. COFFEY: So, next is the framework

4 document, which describes DOE's process for

5 considering energy conservation standards and invites

6 feedback from interested parties. We're doing a

7 little bit of that today actually, but the framework

8 document is the fully fledged version. It's very

9 important for DOE to hear from interested parties at

10 this stage because a lot of that feedback will

11 ultimately be used to craft the structure of the

12 rule.

13 As we mentioned already, this and every

14 other stage would be announced in the Federal

15 Register, and DOE would also hold a public meeting

16 like this one today to invite interested parties to

17 come in and discuss that document.

18 Next slide, please.

19 (Slide.)

20 MR. COFFEY: After the framework is the

21 preliminary analysis, which is really the first time

22 that DOE publishes actual analytical results and then

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1 holds a public meeting inviting stakeholders to

2 comment on them. These results would include an

3 engineering analysis or development of a cost

4 efficiency relationship, markups, energy use, life

5 cycle costs, and payback period analyses, shipments

6 estimates, national energy savings, consumer net

7 present value, preliminary manufacturer impacts, and

8 then also a discussion of comments received during

9 the previous rulemaking stage.

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Steven Rosenstock.

11 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steven Rosenstock,

12 Edison Electric Institute. Quick process question,

13 in another rulemaking for commercial industrial fans

i4 and blowers, DOE released what was called a

15 provisional analysis, which contained a lot of the

16 components of a preliminary analysis, had a comment

17 period, but did not have a public meeting. So, I was

18 curious in the cases where DOE is publishing a

19 provisional analysis is DOE also going to publish a

20 preliminary analysis, or is it going to go to the

21 NOPR stage after that?

22 MR. CYMBALSKY: This is John Cymbalsky

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1 from DOE. So, DOE's required, generally, to have a

2 proposal and a final rule. The stages in between are

3 sort of discretionary. Clearly, there was a process

4 rule back, I guess, in the nineties that laid out how

5 we do things. DOE has updated on its website a

6 process by which in certain cases it might go

7 straight to a proposal and also release data as

8 available in our analysis just to give stakeholders

9 as much time as possible to review any analysis that

10 we do .

11 The public meeting, again, is

12 discretionary for that type of work, but what we're

13 trying to establish here is providing as much data as

14 possible as soon as possible on our website to give

15 stakeholders much more time to review the work we've

16 done. So, I think that's where were going on some

17 of the rules. Other rules will follow the

18 traditional path that you're very familiar with.

19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

20 Thank you very much, John, for that, but the reason I

21 asked that is that in the case of commercial. industrial

22 fans and blowers it is a product that DOE has never

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1 regulated before. It is, I'll say, a brand new

2 rulemaking or brand new product that DOE is going to

3 cover. So, I think, again, it's not shown in the

4 slides, but I think all the stakeholders should know

5 it could be a provisional analysis rather than a

6 preliminary analysis in this case, depending on what

7 the Department decides.

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

9 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so next slide, please.

10 (Slide.)

11 MR. COFFEY: So, after the preliminary

12 analysis there's the NOPR stage or the Notice of

13 Proposed Rulemaking. John just mentioned that that's

14 really a requirement for DOE to make a formal,

15 written proposal of what the rule might look like,

16 and this stage includes updates to all the results of

17 the preliminary analysis that I just mentioned, plus

18 a couple of new ones.

19 This NOPR stage represents the last

20 chance the public will have to comment on the rule

21 and standard levels under consideration.

2

2 Next slide, please.

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1 (Slide.)

2 MR. COFFERY: And of course, all of this

3 culminates into a final rule. There's a Federal

4 Register notice for the rule, but ordinarily no

5 public meeting. All of the analytical results are

6 revised and presented, and ultimately, any standard

7 levels adopted in the rule would be codified in the

8 CFR or Code of Federal Regulations.

9 Next slide, please.

1 0 (Slide.)

11 MR. COFFEY: So, that's the process

12 overview. And now let's take a look at the

13 legislative history and scope of the rulemaking.

14 Next slide, please.

15 (Slide.)

i 6 MR. COFFEY: So, we touched on this a

17 little bit earlier. The regulatory program came into

18 existence with the Energy Policy and Conservation Act

19 of 1975, which has been amended many times since by

20 subsequent bills. A portion of it does include

21 authorization for DOE to issue standards for

22 compressors. It does not, however, define what a

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1 compressor is, and so one of the tasks in this

2 rulemaking is to establish a set of definitions and a

3 potential scope of standards.

4 As we mentioned earlier, DOE issued an

5 RFI in August and received six stakeholder comment

6 submissions. And so, if DOE opts to move forward

7 with this rule, those comments would be addressed in

8 the framework document.

9 Next slide, please.

10 (Slide.)

11 MR. COFFEY: The next publication was the

12 Notice of Public Meeting, that's the one that brings

13 us here today. This step is not part of DOE's

14 standard rulemaking timeline, but can be used in

} 15 cases like this one where DOE wishes to gather

16 additional information before launching into the

17 framework stage.

18 Next slide, please.

19 (Slide.)

20 MR. COFFEY: Scope, here are the natural

21 gas compressors for which DOE is considering

22 standards. Please understand that this is a

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1 preliminary list, so it's not to say that something

2 on this list is certain to be included or that

3 something not on this list won't be. But the six

4 applications here, the DOE's understanding, account for

5 most of the natural gas compression performed in the

6 U.S.

7 A scoping rule always involves some

8 judgment, but, in general, DOE is looking for areas

9 of technological similarity where there's a chance to

10 garner cost effective energy savings. In general, z

11 cost effective means that consumers at large will

12 economically benefit. Although, as we mentioned

13 earlier, that's only one of several factors

14 considered.

15 Next slide, please.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. COFFEY: The next few slides provide

18 examples of what natural gas compressors are used

19 for. I won't read them all, but we can see that

20 these compressors have a wide application variety,

21 up, mid, and downstream in the infrastructure.

22 We have a question.

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MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Steve.

2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

3 It looked like on a previous slide you

4 were saying something about kind of a scope of like

5 the natural gas infrastructure, and I appreciate the

6 slide. Did that mean that you would, say,

7 concentrate on the upstream part of this slide

compared to the midstream or downstream? And the

9 reason I say that is because especially midstream and

10 downstream that is getting more into, I'll say, the

11 industrial realm and/or even the commercial realm

12 where there are -- you know, where DOE has already

13 starting a rulemaking on electrical compressors that

14 are covering some of those same areas as well.

15 So, I'm kind of curious about in terms of

16 preliminary scope it seemed like you were -- are you

17 not thinking about midstream and downstream, or it's

18 not clear yet.

19 MR. CYMBALSKY: This is John Cymbalsky

20 from DOE. So, we're keeping the scope broad at this

21 point.

22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock. Thank

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you. I would encourage that as well because, again,

especially in areas where you have a parallel

rulemaking where there might be competing products I

think it would be helpful to keep the scope as broad

as possible.

MR. CYMBALSKY: Thank you.

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Terry.

MR. BOSS: Another question. Natural gas

is not well defined because it is natural and it does

vary quite a bit. So, I think in all these different

modes that you're talking about the actual product

that's inside the equipment will vary and that'll add

variability to the efficiency-type determinations on

that.

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

MR. COFFEY: Okay, next slide, please,

Jim.

(Slide.)

MR. COFFEY: So, here's an EIA map and

energy administration of the major pipeline stations

in the United States. The red dots are the major

stations, but of course, there are many others not

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1 included here. Two of the major takeaways from this

2 graphic is that the largest concentration of stations

3 and pipeline is on the Gulf Coast, so Houston and New

4 Orleans, but also that natural gas compressor

5 stations exist just about everywhere in the nation.

6 Next slide, please.

7 (Slide.)

8 MR. COFFEY: This is a similar graphic

9 also from EIA, except now it's showing transmission

10 volume. So, no surprise, a major conduit is from the

11 Gulf Coast up North. We can also see that actually a

12 fair amount of the gas comes from Canada, but

13 obviously, compressors deployed there would be

14 outside the scope of today's rule. So, this is just

15 to give folks an idea of what the infrastructure

16 looks like and what we might be talking about.

i7 MR. CYMBALSKY: I just want to clarify

18 Brian's statement that if the compressor were

19 manufactured in the U.S. and exported to Canada the

20 regulations are for export only, so it would be

21 subject to the Canadian rules. Terry.

22 MR. BOSS: One clarification. Those

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1 diagrams that Brian was depicting are the diagrams of

2 the gas transmission lines, specifically the

3 interstate gas transmission lines, so they cover just

4 one line that was listed before as what coverage was

5 considered. So, there's a lot more facilities around

6 than what's depicted in here.

MR. BROOKMAN: It's striking when you

8 consider that there are just these big compressor

9 stations in virtually every state in the Union.

10 They're just all over the place. It's a lot of

11 movement.

12 MR. BOSS: One other point, for the

13 interstate pipelines and are regulated by the

14 Department of Transportation with PHMSA [Pipeline,

15 Hazardous Materials Safety

16 Administration], the average

17 age of the pipeline infrastructure is around 1960

18 right now, so they're very long-lived assets that

19 don't have much capital changeover.

20 MR. BROOKMAN: We have a question from

21 Gary Choquette.

22 The scope of coverage has changed

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I significantly from 2008 due to the role shale plays in

2 the Northeast. I guess that's just a comment. Okay.

3 Thank you. Terry.

4 MR. BOSS: The INGAA Foundation has

5 published an infrastructure forecast through 2035 rs

6 that is available up on our website that describes

7 the expansion and contraction of the system over a

8 period of time. And we do try to give some upstream

9 and midstream, but not downstream-type estimates out

10 there. So, that is available on INGAA's website.

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. That's

12 helpful. Steven Rosenstock. And let me, before

13 Steve goes, I just want to say we do welcome

14 questions or comments from those joining us via the

15 web like the one we just got. Steve Rosenstock.

16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

17 Yes, also I've seen published reports

18 from utilities, especially in the South, about

19 projections on industrial loads for both electricity

20 and natural gas. So again, I think some of those are

21 publicly available. I think CLECO and Entergy,

22 some of them have published, you know, the recent

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1 rise in expansion of industrial facilities in the

2 Southeast as well.

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks Steve.

4 MR. COFFEY: Okay. Thank you. I guess

5 next slide.

6 (Slide.)

7 MR. COFFEY: So, as we mentioned earlier,

S DOE is really exploring standards for compressors

9 everywhere in the chain. Nothing has been ruled in

10 or ruled out. This could even include gathering,

11 processing, transmission and distribution, and

12 potentially even liquefaction and expansion if those

13 applications are found to offer cost-effective energy

14 savings.

15 Next slide, please.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. COFFEY: One of the first questions

18 of scope is what is the piece of equipment for which

19 DOE is exploring standards. And the answer to that

20 is the set of equipment that industry generally

21 refers to as a compressor package, and that

22 ordinarily includes the compressor itself or what

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this presentation refers to as a compression unit,

the prime mover which drives the compressor, and then

also any auxiliary hardware, such as controls or

sensors that would enable the compressor to function

properly.

So, in short, the compressor package

would be what's needed, more or less, for stand-alone

operation. And then up next are definitions for

those terms.

Here we have natural gas compressor

packages. I think it's worth reading. It's a set of

equipment that's used to increase the pressure of

natural gas and includes, but is not limited to, the

compression unit, the prime mover, and associated

auxiliary hardware, including controls, sensors,

vents, and measures for safety and maintenance.

Once again, all these definitions are

preliminary and DOE is definitely inviting comment on

their appropriateness.

Next slide, please.

(Slide.)

MR. COFFEY: Compression unit types,

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1 reciprocating, is a natural gas compressor that

2 performs compression on an enclosed volume of gas

using a piston traveling linearly, so similar with

4 like we might be familiar with an internal combustion

5 engine in an automobile. It's kind of a bigger version

6 of that.

7 A centrifugal [compressor] is [one] where a

8 flow enters a compressor in an axial direction or

9 parallel with the axis of rotation and exits in a radial

10 direction, or perpendicular to the axis of rotation.

11 Compression is achieved first by using a rotation

1

2 radial impeller to accelerate gas and impart kinetic

13 energy and then a stationary diffusion is used to

14 transform the increased kinetic energy into a pressure

15 rise.

16 And then finally, these might [appear] more

1

7 in specialized applications, but they are being used.

18 It`s an axial compressor. Flow enters and exits the

19 compressor in an axial direction and compression is

20 achieved first by using a row of rotating air foils

21 to accelerate the gas and impart kinetic energy. And

22 then a row of stationary air flows is used to diffuse

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the gas and transform that increased kinetic energy

2 into pressure rise.

3 So, not representative of every possible

4 type of compressor that could possibly be used for

5 gas, but we think these account for a large fraction

6 of what is being used.

7 Next slide, please.

8 (Slide.)

9 MR. COFFEY: Prime mover is the assembly

10 that consumes electrical energy, thermal energy from

11 natural gas combustion or another source of energy in

12 order to supply the mechanical power used for natural

13 gas compression. In certain cases, for example,

14 integral reciprocating compressors, the compression

15 unit and the prime mover may actually be part of the

16 same assembly.

17 Next slide, please.

18 (Slide.)

19 MR. COFFEY: Types of prime movers, they

20 mirror the types of compressors. There are

21 reciprocating gas engines which use pistons to

22 harness energy from combusted gas in a trapped

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I volume, which is then expelled using valves, a gas

2 turbine, which uses rotating vanes or impellers to

3 harness energy from a flow of combusted gas, and also

4 electric motors, which use electrical energy to

5 create magnetic fields that rotate a shaft.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock.

7 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

8 Again, with motors there's a chance if

9 the motor size is less than or equal to 500 horsepower

10 that DOE has already made standards for those

rr' 11 products. So, again, it's a matter of -- again, the

12 compressor motor might be a specialty-type motor, not

1 3 a TEFC- or 002-type motor, but again, it's a matter of

14 -- again, in the documents to make sure -- you know,

15 if you're not repeating what's already been done,

16 especially for the smaller compressor units.

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

18 MR. COFFEY: Next slide, please.

19 (Slide.)

20 MR. COFFEY: So, having defined the

21 components, let's walk through what are the different

22 forms that a standard could take, which are

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1 compressor level, package level, or a design option

2 approach.

3 The first would be a compression unit

4 level standard or a unit level standard rather, which

5 would be to define an established standard for the

6 compressor unit, exclusive of the prime mover. This

7 option would likely involve a metric such as

8 isentropic efficiency of compression.

9 The second approach could be defining and

10 establishing standards for packages shipped,

11 including both a compressor unit and a prime mover,

12 and, potentially, some auxiliary equipment.

1 3 And then the third approach could be

14 defining and establishing design requirements for

15 compressors or compressor packages that mandate that

16 certain technology be used or avoided.

17 So Steve, to address your point, one form

18 that this could address those electric motors which

19 were previously covered is to require that a motor of

20 a certain performance level be used in a compressor

21 of a certain type. So, maybe not getting into the

22 technology of the motor itself, but just saying it

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1 has to meet this level according to DOE's test

2 procedure. That's just one possibility.

3 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

4 Again, thank you for that. You know, again, I think

5 part of it is really going to depend on your

6 information that's gathered in terms of how are these

7 products manufactured. Are they manufactured as

8 separate components put together in the field or is

9 everything all put together? I mean that's really

10 significant. We found that out, obviously, with

11 other rulemakings, such as pumps and commercial and

12 industrial pumps and fan systems that, you know, is

13 it a whole, entire package or is each component

14 manufactured separately and then put together in the

15 field by the end user, by the owner.

16 So, I think one and two are probably the

17 better, especially for a first rulemaking that one

18 and two probably would be better avenues. Again,

19 this is very early, but one and two would be much

20 better than number three.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: I think it's worth noting

22 that since gas compressors is a new subject matter

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1 for the Department. of Energy that the Department

2 would really prosper from having really detailed

3 comments on these definitions and configurations and

4 the way various stakeholders would like to see that

5 configured. And just to affirm that point, Terry,

6 you're next.

7 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with Interstate

8 Natural Gas.

9 I think the application on pipelines, in

10 particular, is quite complex because very similar to

11 when you're setting efficiency standards on

12 automobiles it depends on the use of the automobile

13 on those sort of things and how it is being used, and

14 there's a lot of flexibility in there.

15 Just on the interstate pipeline

16 configurations, we have a study -- and I think

17 Brian's got a copy of it -- that describes the

18 overall efficiency of the transportation system in

19 which the compressors are part of that efficiency on

20 there, which would give more of a true view of the

21 overall efficiency of moving the product out there

22 rather than components on that.

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But I must warn you, on a lot of the

2 other applications that you're talking about on

3 natural gas compressors, there's different operating

4 scenarios that they have in there, so it's completely

5 different types of things that are going on there.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

7 MR. COFFER: I think it's probably also

8 worth making the point now that normally this program

9 doesn't set standards that are specific to each

10 application. So, to follow up on your point,

11 depending on the way it's used it could greatly

12 affect energy savings, but for the most part, the

13 standards under consideration here are ones that can

14 be tested and measured in a manufacturing facility

15 and then certified based on that, just to provide

16 context.

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

18 MR. BOSS: This is Terry Boss.

19 I think this ends up with a life cycle

20 analysis and the economic analysis on the true

21 benefits of the improvements of the units and how

22 they will overall affect the economics on it.

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MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

MR. COFFEY: Okay, so next slide, please.

(Slide.)

MR. COFFEY: We have our first request

for comment. I'll just read them quickly.

Given the breadth of the application of

natural gas compressors, DOE requests comment on

where potential cost effective energy savings may

lie. Often, these exist where market forces do not

incentivize the purchase of efficient equipment.

Then Item 3-2, DOE requests comment on

scope of coverage, specifically whether a gas

compressor energy conservation standard should be

inclusive or exclusive of the prime mover.

MR. BROOKMAN: So, comments here. Rob

Boteler.

MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler with NIDEC.

Yes, that's a tough one because when you

hear three different prime movers it'd be very

difficult to come up with one standard certainly that

would cover the gas compression system.

We're facing similar issues in some of

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1 the rules that we're working on in other products

2 right now where we have multiple technologies. And I

3 think the issue that you're going to face is if you

4 regulate one of the technologies and leave two of

5 them off, or regulate two and leave one off, you

6 start to run into issues on your seven points that

7 you showed us in the beginning -- conflicting

8 technologies where you eliminate competition for one

9 of the technologies or you create a situation that's

10 not very conducive to competition.

11 MR. BROOKMAN: I'm looking over to Alex.

12 No? Nothing there? No additional comments here?

13 Yes, please, Terry.

14 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with Interstate

15 Natural Gas again. Appreciate the chance to comment

16 on this.

17 At a previous DOE workshop, we discussed

18 a lot of technology options out there that do so many

19 things. And one thing I want to emphasize is that

20 the overall efficiency of the equipment is its

21 running efficiency and also its maintenance

22 efficiency so that you may achieve certain operating

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1 efficiency, on that, but if there's a lot of

2 maintenance work involved and a lot of cost involved

3 on the maintenance to keep that kind of performance

4 up then that should be built into the economic

5 analysis.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. Steve

7 Rosenstock.

S MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock.

9 As a follow up, when you're talking about

10 those two -- I'll say two conditions ---- does that

11 mean that you'd want that as part of a test procedure

12 because remember they have to work -- as they go

13 forward they're working on a test procedure. So,

14 would you want two separate test procedures to cover

15 those situations?

16 MR. BOSS: All I'm trying to point out is

17 that a particular technology may be more efficient,

18 but there may be the requirement to maintain it more,

19 and you may actually have a lot of natural gas lost

20 because of the maintenance activity. It is a 24/7

21 operation on our pipelines where we have to deliver

22 to customers, so there's also the economic impacts if

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1 we do not deliver because we're doing the maintenance

2 on that equipment.

3 MR. BROOKMAN: John Cymbalsky.

4 MR. CYMBALSKY: John Cymbalsky, DOE.

5 So, I think there's two issues here. So,

6 1 think what I'm hearing from Terry is that in our

7 downstream analysis we must be careful to make sure

8 we account for things such as maintenance, and in

9 other rulemakings we have more efficient products

10 that do require more maintenance, maybe have an

11 incidence of failure that needs a component replaced

12 more often than the less efficient device, and we

13 take that into account.

I4 I guess to follow up on Steve's comment

15 on a test procedure I guess my question is more

16 around how the industry specs-out the purchase of

1 7 these things right now. So, when you talk to a

18 manufacturer what kind of information are you asking

19 them for when you buy a new one? Is it strictly the

20 capacity of the thing because you know how much gas

21 you have to move or what are the key factors that the

22 industry generally looks for on a spec sheet, for

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1 example?

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry?

3 MR. BOSS: This is kind of putting me on

4 the spot with not a lot of information out there.

5 There are a lot of specifications that folks use now.

6 A lot of it is built into the reliability of the

7 units, the cost involved in the units, the

8 flexibility of the units because it may be very

9 efficient at one spot, but the operation of that

10 particular compressor has to vary significantly so it

11 may not be operating on the peak efficiency point a

12 lot of times on that. So, some of the

13 characteristics given between the electric, the

1

4 reciprocating, and turbine have inherent

15 characteristics on the amount of torque that they've

16 got at certain places to provide to the compressors.

1 7 The compression ratio that is on the reciprocating

18 compressor versus the axial compressor -- there's a big

19 difference on that on/off-curve type things.

20 Some of that discussion is in these reports,

21 but obviously there's information out there. I just

22 do not have that with me at this time.

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1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Christopher --

2 MR. BOSS: I thank you for the comment

3 period to provide that.

4 MR. BOLDUC: Chris Bolduc, LBNL.

5 On the topic of maintenance costs, we do

6 attempt to embody maintenance costs differences for

7 different technologies in the economic analysis, so

8 any detail that you can provide the Department we'd

9 be grateful for.

10 MR. BOSS: I will look into what's

11 available. There have been a lot of different

12 studies done, articles done, but it's like any other

13 kind of technical information, is it all consistent

14 under the same measurement type categories and stuff.

15 MR. BROOKMAN: And I wonder if it

16 differentiates based on vintage. I should think

17 that'd be a factor?

18 MR. BOSS: I'll see what I can provide on

19 that sort of thing. It's probably is with it's all

20 in the technologies where we have additional

21 requirements for emission characteristics and then

22 changing the fuel sources on those sorts of things that

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I adds to the complexity of the equipment. So, some of

2 the newer equipment may have more gadgets that fail

3 because they have to abide by different kinds of

4 standards that are out there.

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

6 MR. COFFEY: Okay, next slide, please.

7 (Slide.)

8 MR. COFFEY: That brings us to the

9 metrics and test procedure section. We've mentioned

10 that compressor packages have different components,

11 so let's discuss the different ways that the concept

12 of efficiency could apply to each.

13 The first is compressor unit efficiency,

14 which measures how much energy is expended in

15 compressing the gas compared to how much overall

16 energy is used by the compressor. And we mentioned

17 earlier this relationship may be expressed as

18 isentropic efficiency, which is the dimensionless

19 parameter reflecting how close the compressor comes

20 to the theoretical physical maximum.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's pause right there.

22 We have another comment online.

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1 Gary Choquette says gas turbines: some

2 operators use these standards when procuring

3 equipment or have subsets of these standards as part

4 of their own engineering standards.

5 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Doug, this is Steve

6 Rosenstock.

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Hang on, Steve.

8 I guess I just read the second half of

9 that. The first half is some efficiency standards

10 already exist, ASME PTC 17, reciprocating internal

11 combustion engines, PTC 10, compressors and

12 exhausters, and PTC 22, gas turbines. Okay. Thank

13 you.

14 Steve, go ahead.

15 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock.

16 I just wondered what entity is he

17 with, for the people online?

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Do you have that?

1 9 MR. BOSS: Yes. This is Terry Boss.

20 He works for the PRCI, the Pipeline

21 Research Council International. It's a research

22 group of the pipeline companies.

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1 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Thank you. That helps.

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Thanks, Terry.

3 Additional comments here before we move

4

on?

5 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so after compressor

6 unit efficiency, we've got thermal efficiency as

7 applied to a prime mover, whether that's an engine, a

8 turbine, or electric motor that drives a compressor.

9 Thermal efficiency measures how much of the potential

10 energy of the input fuel or electric power is

11 converted into useful energy that can be used to

12 drive the compressor. The majority of the energy

13 that is not converted into useful energy is

14 considered waste heat in the exhaust, also the

15 cooling and lubrication systems.

16 Okay, next slide, please.

17 (Slide.)

18 MR. COFFEY: And then also a big item in the

1 9 consideration of efficiency is heat recovery because

20 both compressors and primary movers generate waste

21 heat in compression and combustion, respectively.

22 And using waste heat, either directly for space or

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I water heating, for example, or to generate electrical

2 power may be economical, depending on the compressor

3 type and size.

4 Heat recovery is sometimes lumped into

5 compressor unit or prime mover efficiency values, but

6 because the savings materialize remotely from where

7 the heat or generated electrical power is consumed it

8 may be useful to discuss that savings separately.

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

10 MR. BOSS: Yes, this is Terry Boss with

I I INGAA.

12 A lot of the designs do recover heat

1 3 right now. For example, on reciprocating units a lot

14 of those units are turbo-charged. There's

15 recuperators on gas turbines that have been used on

16 that. And there have been many studies for

17 additional heat recovery things out there. We've got

18 several studies at INGAA that look at the costs and

19 benefits of doing that sort of thing, and the recent

20 one, I think, is 2010, I believe. It's also

21 available on our website -- outside heat recovery

22 units.

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I R. BROOKMAN: Steve.

2 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock.

3 Yes, I think heat recovery is obviously

4 beneficial, but I'm just thinking about in terms of

5 test procedure heat recovery is so

6 application-specific and so location-specific and

7 site-specific, or it's like an extra economic choice

8 that I think especially for a first rulemaking that

9 --- especially in terms of either a test procedure or

10 a standard it might be better not to approach the use

11 of heat recovery because it is a benefit, but in

12 terms of an actual DOE standard I think it's better

13 to leave that out because it could really complicate

14 in terms of both either test procedure or a standard.

15 And I'll give an analogy, a furnace fan

16 motor, the heat from that is a benefit because it goes

17 into the heat stream of the furnace, and the motor

18 test procedure or standard it's not even considered

19 because it's so application-specific. So, I think,

20 especially for first time, I think it's better to

21 kind of -- maybe at a future date, but not for the

22 first one.

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MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

2 MR. BOSS: Yes, I agree with what Steve

3 was saying about that. And that's what that report

4 was describing, that if you've got highly variable

5 flow you've got highly variable heat coming out of

6 the unit and it doesn't bode well for the economics

7 on that, so you need a high load factor of constant

8 load and scale in order to make some of these things

9 useful.

10 And as was discussed earlier, due to the

11 flow-changing characteristics out there you may have

12 something that's good for five years and all of a

13 sudden now it's switching around to this and that.

14 So, it changes the economics quite a bit.

15 MR. BROOKMAN: We have another comment

16 from Gary Choquette also related to the economics.

17 He says the economics are largely

18 dependent on run time, which can vary significantly

19 by application and market operating conditions. It

20 is often difficult to reliably predict the expected

21 operation at the time the equipment is procured,

22 especially with respect to heat recovery.

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1 Okay. Thank you, Gary.

2 MR. COFFEY: Okay, next slide.

3 (Slide.)

4 MR. COFFEY: I think John made clear

5 earlier that in this rule we're not talking about gas

6 as an emission source, that's left to other programs,

7 but it gets discussed in context of compressors in

8 the sense that if a unit is leaking a lot of gas then

9 it's going to need to use a lot more input power to

10 generate the same output. So, this concept of gas

11 that would have to be reflected in the test

12 procedure, so this reflects how effective a

13 compressor is at retaining that natural gas which may

14 escape in a variety of ways, including through seals

15 or packing, uncombusted in the exhaust stream, through

16 valves, or any other hardware in the compressor

17 package.

18 DOE is not aware of an established metric

19 to quantify gas efficiency. Logically, it could be

20 represented as the mass flow of gas leaving the

21 equipment divided by the mass flow of gas entering

22 the equipment, just counting gas used as fuel.

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1 Although not commonly discussed as efficiency, per

2 say, improving this parameter would enable a

3 compressor to deliver more natural gas for a given

4 energy consumption.

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve.

6 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EE1.

7 Wouldn't this be a subset of the thermal

8 efficiency? Wouldn't a good test procedure account

9 for any losses? You have the potential energy -- you

1 0 know, you have 100 BTUs going in and then you have --

11 you know, there's leaks and then there's the actual

12 combustion process, and then you have 80 BTUs going

13 out. Doesn't that cover the leaks, what's in here?

14 MR. COFFEY: Depending on how it was

15 written, it could be. One thing that I learned is

16 that depending on how compressors are operated

17 sometimes they're what's called "blown down," which

18 basically means that all the high pressure gas that's

19 inside the unit is vent into the atmosphere,

20 sometimes combusted, sometimes not. And so a

21 compressor with technology that instead of venting

2

2 that into the atmosphere either stored it or put it

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1 back in the upstream pipeline. You might end up

2 saving energy that way, but depending on how the test

3 procedure was written it might not account for that.

4 It does get tricky because there might

5 not always be a way to predict how often a unit could

6 be blown down in a given year, but we felt that that

7 it bore mentioning is something that could affect

8 overall energy savings.

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Terry.

1 0 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with INGAA.

11 Yes, it's very application specific.

12 Again, it's an interaction of the variability of the

13 transportation fuel that's going through it, on how

14 often you operate it, and the maintenance

15 characteristics because a lot of -- and safety is

16 heavily involved in this situation too, so the more

17 maintenance that's being performed -- obviously a lot

18 of times the gas has to be removed from the

19 compressor equipment so that it can be utilized, so

20 that's a very big impact on that.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Choquette has another

22 comment.

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1 He says that is a poor metric as the mass

2 flow can change due to the operating pressure

3 (compressor ratio). Do keep in mind the liquids also

4 leave the gas stream through condensates of heavier

5 gas.

6 And then Dan Hannon says -- pardon me.

7 This is Dan Hannon's comment. Begins with, do keep

S in mind that liquids also leave the gas stream

9 through condensates of heavier gas components and

10 water vapor. These values are very dependent upon

11 the service, ambient temperatures, and compression

12 range. Thanks, Dan.

1 3 MR. COFFEY: Okay, next slide, please.

14 (Slide.)

15 MR. COFFEY: So, test procedures, a

16 general note about test procedures is that if DOE

17 adopts a test procedure that manufacturers must use

18 that test procedure to certify that their equipment

19 is compliant with any standards that apply to it.

20 And even beyond certifying to DOE that equipment is

21 compliant, manufacturers must also use DOE test

22 procedures when making representations about energy

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1 consumption to third parties. A common example of

2 making representations might be publishing

3 performance data in a catalog, for example.

4 Next slide, please.

5 (Slide.)

6 MR. COFFEY: And the gentleman on the

7 webinar --- I think it was Gary -- mentioned a few of

$ these ASME procedures. He mentioned a couple that we

9 show here and then a couple of others that are not

10 listed, but specifically, DOE is aware of at least

11 the following test procedures that might outline

12 protocols for evaluating compressor performance.

13 There's a box in the next slide requesting comment on

14 whether these are appropriate and whether there are

15 any others that DOE should be considering, so let me

16 read that actually on the next slide and then we can

17 take any comments.

18 DOE requests comment about test

19 procedures that may be suitable for assessment of

20 energy consumption in natural gas compressors.

21 In addition to specifying which and how physical

22 parameters must be measured, such procedures should

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1 specify the conditions under which the measurements

2 are taken and interpreted.

3 Then Item 4-2, DOE requests comment about

4 whether test procedures in IS01217 2009 and in IS05389

5 2005, which address the testing of displacement in

6 turbo compressors, respectively, would be appropriate

7 for rating gas compressors.

8 DOE also requests information about other

9 applicable test procedures that should be considered,

10 along with any deficiencies or issues that should be

11 addressed prior to describing test procedure

12 requirements to measure energy consumption.

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Absent any additional

14 comment here, we would certainly welcome, the

15 Department would appreciate some of the technical

16 folks joining online to get their detailed listing of

17 other test procedures, other protocols that would

18 have bearing on this proceeding.

19 Rob Boteler.

20 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler with NIDEC.

21 Not being a gas compressor expert here at

22 all, do these test procedures, are these covering the

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1 skid, which includes the air-end, the prime mover, and

2 the controls? And then, if so, are there different

3 test procedures for the three different prime mover

4 categories that you just showed us in the slide?

5 MR. BROCKMAN: `.Terry.

6 MR. BOSS: This is Terry Boss.

7 I do believe these particular standards,

8 and maybe Gary can intercede here, but I think this

9 just happens to do with the compressor, not the prime

10 mover on this particular thing because there are two

11 different kinds of units out there.

12 The other caution that I have with any

1 3 standard, and we ran into this when we were working

14 with the electric companies on power generation,

15 assumes a certain quality or mix of natural gas, but

16 there's variability involved. We have a report

17 that's called Quality of Natural Gas and

18 Interchangeability.

19 Even though you may have a standard

20 that's set for the efficiency of that as the actual

21 kind of natural gas that's in it, it varies in that

22 that'll greatly affect the efficiency on that. And

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1 some of the discussion about liquid dropouts, et

2 cetera, is because there is variability in the gas,

3 and it may vary from upstream to midstream to

4 downstream making those through there.

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Rob.

6 MR. BOTELER: So, I guess my second

7 question would be then is there a test standard that

8 the Department is considering that includes the prime

9 mover, or is the consideration here only to regulate

10 the air-end of the gas compressor?

11 MR. COFFEY: I think the Department is

12 definitely exploring standards at a few

13 different levels, just the compressor itself

14 requiring a specific type of prime mover and then the

15 overall package, pluses and minuses with each. So, I

16 think the Department is requesting comment on whether

17 the industry does use any package-level standards to

18 assess performance.

1 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional comments here?

20 Okay.

21 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so that brings us to

22 the market assessment, and I'll invite Michael Brown

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I to walk us through that.

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

3 MR. BROWN: All right. Thank you. I'm

4 Michael Brown with Navigant, and I'll be covering the

5 market assessment today.

6 So, first, we're going to go through the

7 purpose of the market assessment, what kind of

8 information we gather, why we're gathering it, and

9 then we'll dive into some of the preliminary data we

10 have. And then with that context, we'll go through a

11 couple different requests for comment that pertains

12 to the market assessment.

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Michael, maybe you could

14 hold on just one second.

15 MR. BROWN: Okay.

16 MR. BROOKMAN: Another comment from Gary

17 Choquette. I know of no efficiency standards for

18 auxiliary equipment or controls for compressor units.

19 Okay. Thank you.

20 Michael proceed.

21 MR. BROWN: Okay. Thank you.

22 Okay, so first off, what is the purpose

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I of the market assessment? Well, it's to identify and

2 characterize the natural gas compressor industry, so

3 that means looking at things like manufacturers,

4 market shares, market trends, industry organizations,

5 regulatory and non-regulatory programs. And as part

6 of this, DOE gathers information that can help

7 identify important issues that could arise in a

8 rulemaking process.

9 And DOE considers manufacturers and

1 0 industry organizations as a source of information and

11 comment, and it also considers other stakeholders a

12 source of that as well. And DOE also uses data from

13 public sources, so I think things like data from EIA

14 and FERC, and the U.S. Census.

15 Next slide, please.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. BROWN: So, now diving into some of

18 the preliminary data we have. Initial research

19 indicates that the majority of natural gas

20 compressors come from the manufacturers listed on the

21 slide now, and that about 95 percent of the

22 compressors in compressor stations come from these

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1 manufacturers.

2 And also, as part of its analysis, DOE

3 considers how a rule would impact a small business.

4 And at this point, DOE hasn't identified any

5 manufacturers of gas compressors that qualify as a

6 small business.

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

S MR. BOSS: Just for future discussions, I

9 think you should use some terminology to describe the

10 prime mover, the compressor, and then the package and

11 be explicit in all the slides so that as you describe

12 it so there's no confusion on what you're talking

13 about.

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Steve.

15 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

16 Yes, I noticed there was --- earlier he

17 was talking about axial compressors. This slide -- are

18 these manufacturers also making the axial

19 compressors? And I guess the other thing is

20 compressor supplied for compressor stations, I

21 think again earlier, it was saying we were

22 looking at all applications. This just seems to be

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I'll say an upstream or midstream rather than

2 downstream. So, again, I'm just thinking about I'll

3 say the industrial or commercial applications there,

4 if there's a way to obtain that data.

5 I think, again, since this scope is

6 supposed to be broad -- this seems to be a narrow

7 scope, so hopefully the information for those other

8 applications is available for you. Right now, it

9 just seems like it's all of a sudden you're limiting

10 the scope right now.

11 MR. BROWN: Michael Brown from Navigant.

12 Some of the data we have here is limited

13 and not representative of what the scope may or may

14 not be. It's just what we have available now.

15 Additional data would be helpful in other market

16 segments, so yes.

17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Terry.

18 MR. BOSS: Another point, back on Slide

19 21, 1 think probably most of the information that

20 you're getting is transmission, maybe a little bit of

21 boosting. And on Slide Number 22, it's probably

22 transmission and again, gathering and boosting, so a

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1 lot of these market analyses that you're getting are

2 probably limited to those particular areas. So, that

3 there you're kind of not covering.

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. That's helpful.

5 Those representations are they in the INGAA

6 documents?

7 MR. BOSS: Again, INGAA represents the

8 natural gas pipelines, primarily the transmission

9 pipelines. They're not specifically referenced in

10 this efficiency document. We do try to cover in the

11 forecast document, the 2035, on what we think is

12 going to be the growth in that market, which would be

13 gathering, was included in that.

14 T don't believe we have gas processing in

15 there, but there are other areas that do use gas

16 compressors that you don't have the information for

17 right now and we don't have the information as a

18 trade association.

19 MR. BROOKMAN: INGAA doesn't make

20 representations about other segments of the market.

21 MR. BOSS: Right.

22 MR. BROOKMAN: Does somebody else do

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1 that?

2 MR. BOSS: There are other groups. I

3 just don't know the quantity and quality of the data.

4 And obviously, there's American Petroleum Institute,

5 the Natural Gas Processors Association.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

7 Michael.

8 MR. BROWN: All right. Thank you.

9 Next slide, please. I think we're now on

10 44, Jim.

I1 (Slide. )

12 MR. BROWN: All right, so now we'll move

13 on to compressor packaging and installation. And this

14 is what we're trying to talk about here is how a

15 compressor moves from a manufacturer to being in

16 operation in the field. So, we're aware of really

17 two sources of this, and first is the manufacturer

18 itself and then second is what we're calling

19 "independent integrator." So, first, for

20 manufacturers, the purchaser of a compressor works

21 directly with the manufacturer to select and design

22 equipment and then often the manufacturer will

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install that equipment.

And then the second avenue we have is the

integrator, so in some cases a purchaser works with

an integrator and they'll get project specifications,

whatever data they need. And then the integrator

goes out and selects a compressor, a prime mover, and

additionally auxiliary equipment and then packages

them together, installs them as a system of

components.

MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

MR. BOSS: I think that's a very

important point because in some instances, and I

would say the booster-type category you tend to buy

more integrated packages, off-the-shelf type packages,

rather than engineered packages where pieces are put

together on some of the larger applications on the

pipeline.

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks.

MR. BROWN: And I believe later we'll have a

request for comment on whether which avenue is used,

depends on the application, so that kind of

information would be relevant.

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I Okay, next slide, please.

2 (Slide.)

3 MR. BROWN: So, DOE researched and

4 identified the trade organizations shown on the

5 screen now; although, there may be others that aren't

6 listed here, either we felt they weren't relevant or

7 were not aware of them. So, the trade organizations

8 shown are the Gas Compressors Association, the Gas

9 Machinery Research Council, the Interstate Natural

10 Gas Association of America, the American Petroleum

1

1 Institute, and the Gas Processors Association.

12 And so, it's worth noting that not all of

13 these trade organizations are only composed of

14 compressor manufacturers, but they all may or may not

15 be impacted by a standard, and they also may have

16 comments or data that are relevant to this rulemaking

17 so that's why they're included.

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve Rosenstock.

19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, Edison

20 Electric Institute.

21 Again, as you're doing some of the research,

22 I might also suggest maybe outreach to the National

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1 Association of Manufacturers and the American

2 Chemistry Council for some of the downstream

3 applications. They might have some data from their

4 members in terms of the use of the products of the

5 downstream facilities.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks.

7 MR. BROWN: All right. Thank you.

8 Next slide, please.

9 (Slide.)

10 MR. BROWN: So, moving on to regulatory

11 and non-regulatory programs, so first off, there

12 currently are no energy conservation standards for

13 natural gas compressors; but there are other

14 regulations currently in place that may impact the

15 purchase, installation, or operation of a gas

16 compressor. And so, as part of its rulemaking, DOE

17 considers what other regulations are out there and

I8 may affect equipment that an energy conservation

19 standard could apply to.

20 So, the ones we have listed here for

21 regulatory programs, there's the Clean Air Act, which

22 has emission limits for certain pollutants, and this

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1 would probably apply to only the prime mover of a gas

2 compressor, so think of the turbine or reciprocating

3 engine that's driving the compressor.

4 And then also we have the Federal Energy

5 Regulatory Commission or FERC, and they regulate the

6 interstate natural gas pipeline projects and they're

7 in charge of the permitting process for new projects,

8 which often includes the addition of compressors at

9 compressor stations. And one of the actions FERC

10 takes is to perform an environmental assessment on

11 projects, which is required by the National

12 Environmental Policy Act, and that considers a wide

13 variety of impacts, some of which are brought on by

14 the addition of compressors.

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

16 MR. BOSS: One of the main

17 responsibilities of the Federal Energy Regulatory

18 Commission is to determine if a particular project is

19 in the public interest, including the economics of

20 the project to the people that are going to be paying

21 for the services, which includes the overall pipeline

22 efficiency, which a component of that is the

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1 compressor efficiencies in there. So, that's already

2 looked at through that process to see if it's a

3 viable way to move the product into a market.

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

5 MR. BROWN: Okay, and then the last one

6 on the list is the Department of Transportation has

7 the Transportation Pipeline and Hazardous Materials

8 Safety Administration, and this has oversight of the

9 safety of the natural gas infrastructure.

1 0 And then moving on to --

11 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

12 MR. BOSS: One particular point there,

13 they do have safety requirements on that. So,

14 essentially, it's keeping the gas in the pipeline,

15 how much new technology can be used, and the risk

16 factors involved in that. Because of that, some of

17 the safety regulations inhibit some efficiency

18 improvements for safety reasons, and so there's

19 interaction with that as well as the interaction with

20 the Clean Air Act, as I mentioned before. Thank you.

21 MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE.

22 Just to follow up, Terry, are there

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I particular types of -- can you speak to any of the

2 particular types of technologies that PHMSA limits

3 that would have a potential impact on energy

4 efficiency?

5 MR. BOSS: Just a quick example, after

6 the product is compressed by the compressor, it goes

7 through a pipeline. If you can operate at a

8 different kind of safety factor on the pipeline,

9 you've got more compressed gas in there and it's more

10 efficient to transport it, so there's limitations on

11 what kind of stress levels that the system can

12 operate under, that sort of thing, and that inhibits

13 the efficiency improvements.

14 MR. BROWN: Okay. Thank you.

15 Now, moving onto non-regulatory programs,

16 DOE is aware of EPA's Natural Gas Star Program, which

17 is a voluntary partnership with oil and gas companies

18 in really all sectors of the industry, and they work

19 to improve efficiency and reduce emissions. We don't

20 have a specific request for comment about this

21 program, but it does seem that it may be relevant to

22 this rulemaking, and we're going to perform

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1 additional research on it. But if anyone in here is

2 familiar with that program, has any information that

3 they'd like to share on it, please feel free to do

4

so.

5 Okay, and then we'll move onto the next

6 slide where we are talking about shipments.

7 (Slide.)

8 R. BROWN: First, we'll look at how many

9 compressors are in operation currently, and then

10 we'll move on to how many are being brought online.

11 So, this first table is from data from an

12 EPA whitepaper that had estimates for compressors

13 used in different natural gas industry segments, and

14 they broke it out by reciprocating compressors and

15 centrifugal compressors, both of which were used in

16 many different applications. Reciprocating

17 compressors tended to be more common.

18 And the second table shows prime mover

19 estimates for only the transmission sector. So,

20 they're in operation at compressor stations along a

21 pipeline. And in this case, gas engines tended to be

22 most common, gas turbines made up a little bit less

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1 than 10 percent of the prime movers, and then there

2 are some electric motors in service, which can be

3 preferred in certain circumstances, and we'll get to

4 the reasons for that during the technology

5 assessment.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler.

7 MR. BOTELER: Just a quick question, on

8 this chart what is the power range that we're looking -U

9 at on the 8000 units?

I0 MR. BROWN: In a couple of slides we'll

11 get to a discussion about the power range.

12 MR. BOTELER: Okay.

13 MR. BROWN: And during that slide, we're

14 only talking about units that are on compressor

15 stations, and these other industry segments we don't

16 have much data on that at this point, but we'll get

17 into that a little bit.

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

19 MR. BOSS: Yes, Terry Boss with INGAA.

20 A peculiarity in the regulatory scheme,

21 since we are regulated by the Federal Energy

22 Regulatory Commission and we also have Federal

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I regulations directly from the Department of

2 Transportation, there is a plethora of information

3 available for our segment relative to the other

4 segments, which don't have that kind of regulatory

5 authority that's out there and that's why you're

6 seeing the data availability for us versus the other

7 segments.

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

9 MR. BROWN: All right. Thank you.

10 Next slide, please.

11 (Slide.)

12 MR. BROWN: So, now we're going to move

13 onto shipment estimates for new compressors. And the

14 data shown here is only for units installed on

15 interstate natural gas pipeline compressor stations

16 from 2009 to 2013 that are under FERC's regulatory

17 authority, so were just looking at the transmission

18 sector right here. And EIA tracks completed projects

19 and each of those projects has an associated docket

20 number from FERC and within that docket there's a lot

21 of information where you can see what types of

22 compressors and prime movers and data on them that

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1 were installed.

2 So when we looked at that data, we found

3 three categories of equipment and those were gas

4 engines driving reciprocating compressors. We had

5 gas turbines driving centrifugal compressors, and

6 then we also had electric motors driving centrifugal

7 compressors.

8 And so, during this five-year period,

9 based on that data, 45 percent of the units were gas

10 engines with reciprocating compressors, 40 percent

11 were gas turbines, and then 16 percent were electric

12 motors driving centrifugal compressors. And keep in

13 mind this is only on compressor stations, so it's the

14 transmission sector.

15 MR. DELASKI: Andrew deLaski.

16 Quick question, Michael, you said these

17 are shipment units over five years or over a single

18 year?

19 MR. BROWN: Over a single year, so we

20 have each year from 2009 to 2013, and the cumulative

21 market share for that five-year segment was the 45

22 percent, 40 percent, 16 percent, I mentioned.

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MR. DELASKI: Okay, so the total units

2 is [not audible].

3 MR. BROOKMAN: A little louder, please.

4 MR. DELASKI: What do the total units

5 show us in the bottom row?

6 MR. BROWN: The five-year total.

7 MR. DELASKI: That's the five-year total.

8 MR. BROWN: Yes.

9 MR. DELASKI: Thanks.

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

11 MR. BOSS: So, as a comparison, I think

12 on Slide Number 47, that gives you what EPA was

13 estimating, which I would say is probably decent, but

14 in the industry segments of transmission, storage,

15 LNG storage, and import terminals those are probably

16 indicative and match up with the numbers down below

17 on that. So, you could see the relative long capital

18 life of the equipment that's out there, and we have

19 very low stock turnover.

20 The other point I wanted to make on the

21 INGAA Foundation study that we did we expanded this

22 last study to include more upstream facilities on the

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1 estimate so you'll get a better idea on the upstream

2 side of transmission on what the market size is on

3 turnover on those sorts of things.

4 And one other thing to warn about, very

5 much like the interstate highway system is already

6 built and the railroad system is already built, any

7 changes that go onto these systems are incremental.

8 You're not having very large system changes that are

9 going on because a lot of the tracks have already

10 been laid, so that affects future purchases as we

11 move forward.

12 MR. BROWN: All right. Thank you.

13 Next slide, Slide 49, I believe.

14 (Slide.)

15 MR. BROWN: So, the data we looked at,

16 still looking at, compressor stations from the FERC

17 dockets indicated the horsepower of the prime movers

18 for each of these projects. And it showed that,

19 generally, reciprocating engines as a prime mover

20 were the smallest. The data for that five years

21 didn't have any that were over 10,000 horsepower.

22 Gas turbines tended to be larger. Most of them were

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I in the 10 to 15,000 horsepower range, although some

2 were larger, some were smaller. And then electric

3 motors covered a pretty wide range of horsepower

4 sizes, but on average, they were the largest and the

5 average was just over 16,000 horsepower for the data

6 we had.

7 Do we have a comment? }

8 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve, please.

9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

10 1 appreciate this information, but again,

f. 11 I think looking at Slide 47 there's like 52,900 from

12 the EPA study, and then you have a prime mover with

13 over 8,000. So, I added it up. That's I'll say

14 61,000 units out there in the whole market and this

15 covers about 200 or 232, so even with a 40-year life

16 the annual shipment for all types for all the industry

17 is

18 probably going to be in the 1,700 to 1,800 range.

19 And again, I see the size of the horsepower and it

20 might be that in some instances, especially if you're

21 going downstream the size is going to be under 1,000

22 -- should be 1,000 horsepower.

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1 So, I think this is a good start, but in

2 the broad scope of things, you know, if there's

3 information out there, there could be a significant

4 number under a 1,000 horsepower that should be

5 accounted for. But again, this is a very good start.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. Terry.

7 MR. BOSS: Another peculiarity of the

8 market right now is the emissions being monitored by

9 EPA. Depending on the location where it's at, the

10 emission load can either be on the electric

II generation plant or the emission load can be on the

12 industrial plant where you're putting a gas engine on

13 there. The biases on the regulations in some

14 locations are pushing more towards an electric

15 motor-type combination in some instances even though

16 the overall emission impacts are about the same no

17 matter where it's coming from.

18 The other impact here is that we're

19 increasingly providing fuel for electric generation.

20 And a high level of concern about reliability when

21 the product that you're actually feeding is the

22 product you're using, so concerns about black starts,

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1 et cetera, on those sort of things. So, those are

2 more peripheral issues to the efficiency question out

3 there that do play into the determination on which

4 units to buy or not to buy.

5 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.

6 MR. BROWN: All right. Thank you.

7 If we move onto the next slide.

8 (Slide.)

9 MR. BROWN: Now, we're going to move onto

10 specific requests for comment regarding the market

11 assessment, so hopefully that data we showed you as a

12 background gives you some context on what kinds of

13 things we're looking for.

14 So, Item 5.1, DOE is seeking both present

15 and historical shipment data, specifically from 2003

16 to 2013 for gas compressors with further breakdowns

17 where available, including but not limited to

18 equipment type, so both compression principle and

19 driver type, equipment size and application.

20 DOE is also interested in comments

21 regarding how gas compressors are manufactured and

22 shipped as original equipment from the manufacturer.

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1 For example, as a package, that is, with both a

2 compressor and prime mover together or as separate

3 components or both.

4 And then Item 5.2, DOE requests shipment

5 information on upstream and gathering natural gas

6 compressors on how their numbers compare to those of

7 natural gas compressors in other applications.

8 And the last request for comment

9 regarding shipments is DOE seeks comments on how an

10 energy conservation standard for gas compressors

11 might impact future equipment shipments.

12 MR. BROOKMAN: We've got a whole bunch of

13 comment boxes coming up, so let's see if we can get

14 some responses on these and keep moving along.

15 Comments related to these shipments

16 questions?

17 Okay, moving on.

18 MR. BROWN: Okay, next we have --

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Let me just note, the fact

20 that we're not getting comments here does not

21 diminish your capacity to write detailed, written

22 comments in response for the Department. The

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I Department really does request a lot of very detailed

2 comment in these matters especially.

3 Keep going Michael.

4 MR. BROWN: Okay, then we have a couple

5 of comments regarding equipment size and type. I'll

6 read through both of them right now.

7 Item 5.4, DOE is seeking comment about

8 the types of equipment using gas compressors;

9 specifically DOE is interested in information

10 regarding the compression principle. For example,

Ii positive displacement of dynamic compressors and also

12 the primary driver types, so think of natural gas or

13 steam turbines or electric motors that are used in

14 gas compressors as well as what design, construction,

15 and performance characteristics could be attributed

16 to each type. DOE is also interested in information

17 regarding the compression principles and driver types

18 used in gas compressors based on application type.

19 And the second item on this list is Item

20 5.5, that is, DOE is seeking comment about how gas

21 compressors are sized. For example, horsepower,

22 input/output pressure of delivered gas volume, and

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the general sizes of gas compressors based on both

equipment and application type.

MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob Boteler.

MR. BOTELER: You know, on 5.4, I'd just

comment a little bit about electric motors. There

was a comment made earlier -- Steve commented about 1

to 500-horsepower motors and the current

regulations. The new regulation that's coming into

effect in 2016 will cover definite and special

purpose products, so should there be an electric

motor, low voltage 230-460, it would be covered if it

was applied to a gas compressor.

And then the other comment I would make

is in my experience with gas compression in the

categories that we're talking about here, it's very

unlikely. I don't think I've ever seen a power range

below a 1,000 horsepower. The company that I work

for we deal mostly in the boost stage, not on the

pipeline stage, but the power ratings are

1,000-horsepower or greater.

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. Yes,

Terry.

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1 MR. BOSS: One other aspect with natural

2 gas there is a lot of energy in natural gas and it

3 is combustible, so a lot of the equipment designed is

4 designed to prevent electrical-type components from

5 sparking the natural gas, be it power coming into the

6 unit or controls on the equipment, and also the

7 design of the seals, et cetera, to safely vent any

8 kind of gas that's out there.

9 So, it is not just a generic type of

10 driver, you might say, that you put in this unit.

11 There's a lot of other safety equipment involved in

12 that which does affect some of the economics on some

13 of these things.

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Keep going Michael.

15 MR. BROWN: All right, next slide we have

16 Item 5.6, still talking about equipment type and

17 size. DOE requests input on ways to characterize gas

18 compressors, gas compressor sizing, and selection

19 practices for different equipment and end use

20 applications. And then we have Item 5.7, DOE

21 requests comment on the degree of gas compressor

22 over-sizing that is prevalent under present industry

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practices, specifically, the degree to which this

2 over-sizing may be a factor for different end-use

3 applications.

4 (Slide.)

5 MR. BROWN: Okay, next slide we have a

6 request for comment regarding product

7 differentiation, Item 5.8, are gas compressors

8 marketed and sold on the basis of efficiency? Do

9 certain customers tend to purchase certain compressor

10 types or efficiency levels? What makes compressors

11 more or less efficient?

Iz MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

13 MR. BOSS: As I mentioned before, the

14 inherent characteristics of the compressor itself, be

I5 it an axial compressor or a reciprocating compressor

16 or a centrifugal compressor, gives it a different

17 operating range and the drivers that drive that have

18 different characteristics on that. So, in general,

19 people will look at the overall package. Do I mix

20 this unit with that kind of unit rather than specific --

21 does this have a 2 percent versus a 2 1/2 percent

22 type efficiency on the thing. So, there are some

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1 general characteristics like I need this kind of

2 application based on the variability that I think I'm

3 going to have involved on that, and then its looking

4 at the individual characteristics within that market

5 category.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler.

7 MR. BOTELER: Yes, I would add that from

8 the motor perspective we sell primarily to the

9 packager industry that's skidding the compressor and

10 the efficiency of the motor is always a critical

11 issue, and it is always an item that the packager is

12 pushing for the most efficient motor that we can

13 build for his application.

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

15 MR. BROWN: Okay, next slide, please.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. BROWN: Item 5.9, DOE seeks

18 information on any voluntary efforts by manufacturers

19 that are already in place to improve energy

20 efficiency of gas compressors and what type of

21 voluntary efforts to improve efficiency, if any, are

22 likely to occur in the near future?

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MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Terry.

MR. BOSS: I think Gary should be able to

provide comments on that, as a research group and

that sort of thing, so I'll leave that open to Gary.

This is a message to him.

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

MR. BROWN: Okay, we'll move on to the

next slide, please.

(Slide.)

MR. BROWN: So, here we have three items

regarding sales and distribution. Item 5.10, DOE

requests comment on how compressors are marketed,

sold, shipped, and assembled and on the various

distribution channels through which gas compressors

pass through from the manufacturer to the final end

user.

And we have Item 5.11: DOE seeks comment

on the different agents involved in the sale and

installation of a typical gas compressor for each

distribution channel.

And last on the slide is Item 5.12, DOE

seeks comment on the share of industry shipments for

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I each different distribution channel and any

2 differences in gas compressor design that may apply.

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Comments here. Rob.

4 MR. BOTELER: Yes. I guess the only

5 comment I would make, and I think we've said it

6 earlier, is that the packager, the assembler is very

7 much involved with this market where they buy the air

8 end from one of the major manufacturers and then they

9 assemble the skid with the prime mover and the

10 controls.

11 MR. BROOKMAN: And a final request for

12 comment.

13 MR. BROWN: Yes, the next slide, the last

14 one for the market assessment is Item 5.13: DOE seeks

15 comment on what consumer populations would be

16 disproportionally affected if DOE were to adopt new

17 energy conservation standards.

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

19 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with INGAA.

20 The one thing I'm trying to understand,

21 and obviously, it's a very large, diverse market out

22 there. The availability of information on the gas

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I transmission pipelines is widely available as

2 compared, I would say right now, to the other parts

3 of the industry out there. And I'm just trying to

4 understand the prejudice that might happen because

5 availability of information on the standards where we

6 may be disproportionately affected because we do have

7 information versus other segments which don't have

8 information.

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

10 We're due for a break, so I'm going to

11 suggest we take it now. We're almost I'd say

12 three-quarters of the way through this material,

13 which means, I think, we're going to work and

14 conclude this before we break for lunch, just so you

15 all know.

16 It's now 10:40. Many of you are familiar

17 with the way it works here in the Forrestal Building.

18 You must wear an identification badge, a visitor's

19 badge, some form of badge on your person as you walk

20 around the building. There's a coffee shop down on

21 the ground floor. If you take the elevator down to

22 the ground floor and head over that way and hang a

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I left, you can get there -- essentially, one on six

2 too. Anyway, perhaps we'll lead a team going in that

3 directly shortly if you want to follow, but we're

4 going to resume in 15 minutes, which means that would

5 be 10:55, by my watch, okay.

6 Thanks for a good start. We've made a

7 lot of good progress already. 10:55 we resume.

8 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's resume. Michael,

10 are you going to continue, or is someone else

11 presenting?

12 MR. BROWN: Brian.

1 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Back to Brian. We're on

14 technology assessment.

15 MR. COFFEY: All right, yes, so this

16 brings us to the technology assessment. We've got

17 the purpose slide up already. The purpose is really

18 to I'll just read -- to understand equipment and

19 technologies used in natural gas compressor,

20 understand how energy is used by natural gas

21 compressors, and then investigate technology changes

22 that may improve natural gas efficiency.

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1 And so, in DOE parlance, those changes

2 that improve efficiency are referred to as technology

3 options.

4 Next slide, please.

5 (Slide.)

6 MR. COFFEY: So, here's an example of the

7 type of data that might be gathered for the

8 technology assessment. Here we're looking at prime

9 mover efficiency using the gas lower heating value.

10 Terry mentioned that it was important to distinguish,

11 what the heat content of the fuel source is, so this is

12 lower heating value across rated horsepower for both

13 reciprocating and centrifugal compressors, and this is

14 from publicly available manufacturer-published data, by

15 the way.

16 And one takeaway appears that

17 reciprocating prime movers may offer an efficiency

18 advantage at lower horsepower ratings, but may not be

19 available across the same horsepower range.

20 MR. BROCKMAN: And of course, we welcome

21 comments from anybody who wish to contradict that.

22 Rob.

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1 MR. BOTELER: This is Rob.

2 I just have a question. This is the

3 prime mover efficiency. Which prime mover? I mean

4 is this a gas engine? So, it's not an electric

5 motor?

6 MR. COFFEY: No.

7 MR. BOTELER: Okay. Thank you.

8 MR. COFFEY: Electric motors the prime

9 mover efficiency is usually much higher, but it's

I0 difficult to compare because you need some knowledge

11 of the generation source.

12 MR. BROCKMAN: I love this little plot.

13 And of course, DOE's constantly on a search for data

14 and more data, so any additional thoughts? Terry.

15 MR. BOSS: Yes, I think this is fairly

16 accurate. And as was pointed out, if you do a life

17 cycle analysis on an electric motor -- the generation

18 losses and so on -- you could appropriately put that

19 whole curve on.

20 The other point I want to make is that up

21 until I would say the 1960s, 1970s, the primary,

22 large horsepower units were reciprocating-based until

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1 turbine technology did catch up primarily from the

2 aircraft industry and then the expansion into that

3 sort of thing, but they primarily have taken over the

4 large horsepower characteristics where some of the

5 older vintage units are reciprocating in this size,

6 but definitely on the new units.

7 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Steve

8 Rosenstock.

9 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

10 Just a quick follow up, you know, the

11 electric motor efficiency is 95 percent, as tested by

12 in a laboratory. I hear the comments about "life

13 cycle" and "upstream." That's not how you test the

14 products. You test it at the laboratory. It's a

15 site-efficiency metric. You go upstream -- well, you

16 can go upstream on the gas side to North Dakota where

17 they're flaring a third of the gas and these numbers

18 look worse for gas. That's not how you rate the gas

19 equipment. With the electric, you do it at the site

20 or at the lab. Thank you.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: That's useful. Thank you.

22 Okay. Brian.

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1 MR. COFFEY: So, this is just one example

2 not intended to be comprehensive of every type of

3 data that could be in the assessment, just an example

4 of the type of information we would be looking to

5 gather.

6 Next slide, please.

7 (Slide.)

8 MR. COFFEY: So, here's a table comparing

9 the efficiencies of different prime mover compressor

10 unit combinations to do with heat recovery. This is

11 adapted from INGAA data. And there's a lot here, but

12 we've used abbreviations because it wouldn't all fit

13 on the chart. I mean starting from the left column

14 and moving down, we've got low, medium, and high

15 speed reciprocating; small, medium, and large

16 capacities, centrifugal. And then in the prime mover

17 column we have low speed reciprocating, synchronous

18 electric motors, medium and high speed reciprocating,

19 small, medium, and large capacity gas turbines, and

20 then again at the very bottom synchronous electric

21 motors.

22 So, we've got probably reciprocating

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compressors and prime movers. We've got centrifugal

compressors and turbines and a range of speeds and

capacities, which get different use depending on

which application needs it.

MR. BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler.

MR. BOTELER: This is Rob.

I just have one question. So, if I look

at the second item, you're telling me that the

synchronous motor that the PM efficiency that's the

prime mover, the synchronous motor efficiency is

between 25 and 46 percent? Am I reading that right?

MR. BROOKMAN: Second row.

MR. BOTELER: Yes.

MR. COFFEY: That does not look right to

MR. BOTELER: Doesn't look right to me,

as a motor guy. And then, if I go down to the very

last one, the highest to the bottom you have another

synchronous motor at 25 to 46 percent. That can't

be right.

MR. COFFEY: No, that looks to me to be a

mistake. I remember reading what Steve just said. I

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1 mean for these sizes of motors efficiencies are in

2 the neighborhood of 95 percent. Sometimes even a

3 little bit more.

4 MR. BOTELER: Right.

MR. BOSS: This is Terry Boss.

6 In the economic analysis that the

7 pipelines do on this sort of thing is several aspects --

8 its the economics, environmental, and safety. When we

9 are looking at comparisons, should we put an electric

10 unit in or not, as compared to a gas-powered unit we do

11 look at the overall cost on that, and we do have a

12 lot of transmission losses on the electric system as

13 you come through this thing, and that makes a great

14 effect on that.

15 Some of the new technology that we have

1 6 been looking at is putting a combined cycle gas

17 turbine in close by a gas compressor that's electric

18 powered so you would have the inherent reliability

1 9 characteristics because you're being fired by the gas

20 there. And then with some fancy technology connect

21 to the R&D aspects of DOE that you remove a lot of

22 the efficiency losses in the transmission of the

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1 electricity so that you could gain some of that back

2 and you may gain about 6 percent or so doing that.

3 MR. BROOKMAN: Kurt, were you going to

4 make a comment?

MR. KLINKE: This is Kurt Klinke from

6 Navigant, and I was.

7 So, to point out specifically, and Terry

8 just alluded to a lot of it, the source of this

9 information was an INGAA report that he's referred to

10 a number of times. And so, that value that they're

11 using is not just the electric motor efficiency. So,

12 similar to what you were saying, Steve, that the

13 motor and efficiencies are upwards of 90 percent just

14 on a site-specific value this number includes other

15 generation or other losses inherent in using the

16 motors. And that's through some of the analyses that

17 INGAA had done.

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. Steve.

19 MR. ROSENSTOCK: So, Steve Rosenstock.

20 I believe that then this column is

21 totally invalid because when you're doing any sort of

22 efficiency rating or test procedure it's all about

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1 what's happening at the compressor. You're not going

2 for the efficiency rating or the efficiency metric.

3 It's what's happening, how that unit is using the

4 delivered energy, not what's happening upstream or

5 electric transmission loss on the electric side,

6 electric transmission on the gas side, production

7 loss on the electric side or gas side.

8 These numbers should really be based on

9 what's happening at the prime mover, not "going

10 upstream" because this is not how you would analyze

11 any device whatsoever. You might use it upstream,

12 obviously, for any of the I'll say the primarily

13 national impacts analysis or some of the primary

14 energy savings, but in terms of looking at the actual

15 -- how can you improve the efficiency of the prime

16 mover going upstream doesn't do anything for you

17 whatsoever and it really distorts what kind of

18 measures you might take or the options.

19 MR. BROOKMAN: We have a comment from

20 Gary Choquette, who's joining us online.

21 You can't compare the efficiency of an

22 electric motor prime mover to an engine-driven

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I compressor on the same basis without assuming some

2 power generation/transmission losses.

3 Okay. Thanks, Gary.

4 Yes.

5 MR. COFFEY: Those are embedded here.

6 And I want to make a point that I think might help

7 folks think about this. The numbers that are in this

S chart are not intended to be inputs to any sort of

9 economic result. These are just put this way to

10 enable a high-level comparison. They're intended to be

11 illustrative rather than defining.

1

2 And as part of DOE's process, one thing

13 that it often does is it establishes separate

14 equipment classes for exactly this reason, for

15 equipment that might be doing a different job. It

16 might be offering some different utility to the

17 consumer and then therefore on that basis warrant

18 separate consideration and a separate set of

19 standards.

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you, Brian.

21 Steve, you have additional comment here?

22 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Well, to follow up with

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1 the person on the phone is basically it's the --

2 basically, what he said was you have to go upstream.

3 Well, there's so many variations upstream. That is

4 not the purpose of the efficiency standards is to set

5 a minimum of the efficiency of how it's using the

6 delivered energy. What happens upstream is totally

7 separate from either the test procedure or the

8 efficiency metric or what DOE will enforce or what

9 the manufacturers will have to build.

10 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, your comment further

11 amplifies Brian's comment, I believe. Terry.

12 MR. BOSS: I think that points out the

13 necessity of defining what this is actually going to

14 be looking at. Are we looking at compressor

15 efficiency? Are we looking at compressor prime mover

16 efficiency or the actual application out there? And

17 like I said, depending on how these efficiency

18 standards are put together and implemented, they can

19 put prejudice where you do have choice for different

20 prime movers out there.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

22 MR. BOSS: And so that needs to be taken

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1 into account.

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Great. Gary wishes to be

3 unmuted. Gary, let's try it and see if we can hear

4 you in the room.

5 MR. CHOQUETTE: Yes, so my point is if you

6 don't assume some power generation factors in the

7 efficiency comparison like this chart says, that

8 ignores the fact that most power generation, whether

9 it be by coal or gas turbine or whatever, the general

10 efficiencies of the generation itself to make

11 electricity is, at best, 55 percent. And if you

12 ignore that, and that's assuming that -- you know, if

13 you were to look at efficiencies based on prime

14 movers powered into the prime mover to the dent into

15 the pipeline the efficiency would always be where

16 electric motor is so much higher than the efficiency

17 of the conversion of the power from a chemical source

18 to a mechanical source.

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you, Gary.

20 We missed the first minute of that. Would you repeat

21 that for the record? I'm sorry. You were getting

22 captured there.

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1 MR. CHOQUETTE: Okay.

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Back up a step.

3 MR. CHOQUETTE: So, my point is that most

4 of the efficiency is lost in a conversion from any

5 chemical energy source to a mechanical energy source,

6 right, so gas turbine efficiency itself, you know,

7 maybe you can get as high as 52 percent on a very

8 large electrical gas turbine combined cycle power

9 plant, 56 percent maybe.

10 If you only compare electric motor-driven

11 compressors to either gas turbine or recip-driven

12 compressors, you got apples and oranges because

13 you're ignoring that chemical energy conversion

14 factor, which is a huge part of the equation.

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you, Gary.

16 Appreciate that.

17 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, Edison

18 Electric Institute.

19 In response, typically, what happens with

20 a lot of these rulemakings is that different fuel

21 types for different technologies operating on

22 different energy inputs have separate standards. So,

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1 really the reason is that, for example, if the

2 baseline electric motor out there for these

3 technologies, LSR [low-speed reciprocating compressor]

4 or SEMs [synchronous electric motors], was 90 percent.

5 I'll just throw that number out there.

6 If that's the typical baseline, DOE is

7 going to say, okay, well there might be technology

8 offerings of 91, 92, 93, 95, 97 percent. That

9 standard would only apply to those electric motors

10 being used in this application. Then they would do

11 separately for some the gas reciprocating engines.

12 Okay, the minimum out there is 30 percent. We'll

13 look at technologies ranging from 30 to 45 percent.

14 So, it's not and even if there are losses

15 upstream, that's not what DOE is concerned with for

1 6 this rulemaking.

17 They're concerned with what's out there.

18 How is the efficiency of the product at the site?

19 And yes, there are the upstream losses to be

20 considered in the national impact analysis, but not

21 for the rating of the product or the efficiency

22 metric of the product.

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So, again, I just want to clarify. And

these numbers that are in this chart, eventually, the

number that has to be used by DOE is really the

number that how it's using the delivered energy and

then rating it from there.

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks, Steve.

Terry.

MR. BOSS: I think if you wanted to use a

combination of the thoughts that were going out on

this sort of thing you could say that these are kind

of the categories of the equipment, so each line is a

category. So, you're working with the efficiency

within that category, okay.

MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Good.

MR. COFFEY: Okay, so that was the high

level overview.

MR. BROOKMAN: We have a comment online

form John Dutton.

You can burn the gas directly at the site

and have reciprocating prime mover efficiency, or you

can suffer all of the losses to ship the gas to the

power plant, convert it to electricity, and transmit

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1 the electricity back to the site and then use it to

2 power the electric motor.

3 Okay. Thank you. Now, back to Brian.

4 MR. COFFEY: All right, so that was that

5 table. Let's go to the next slide.

6 (Slide.)

7 MR. COFFEY: And now, yes, let's take a

8 look at the different kinds of compressor losses.

9 For reciprocating compressors some of the major ones

I0 could be -- and this is not necessarily intended to

11 be comprehensive, but these are some of the big

12 categories, but valve losses, passage losses,

13 pulsation losses, heat transfer losses, leakage

14 losses, and flow control losses.

15 And each of these, in and of themselves,

16 can and has been the subject of Ph.D. theses, so we

i7 don't dive into deep technical detail here, but

18 certainly do invite comment and discussion of

19 which one of these are dominant and which one of

20 these offers the opportunity for reduction.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

22 MR. BOSS: Again, on the theme of the

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1 equipment classes on that, some of these are actually

2 skid-mounted units and there isn't much difference as

3 you go downstream of the unit or upstream of the

4 unit. Some of these issues, like pulsation losses,

5 et cetera, go farther than the actual unit itself,

6 it's within the stationary on that sort of thing.

7 So, as you look at different groups of equipment you

8 could have some parasitic losses that is actually in

9 the piping that's farther downstream, you might say,

10 and those sorts of things, depending on the

11 configuration; but it's definitely peculiar to the

12 equipment classes.

1 3 MR. BROCKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

14 MR. COFFEY: Okay, next slide, please.

15 (Slide.)

16 MR. COFFEY: And this is an analogous list,

17 but for centrifugal compressors. Different sources

18 group these different sorts of losses in different

19 ways, but one scheme is to talk about internal

20 losses, parasitic losses, and flow control losses.

21 We've got a list of them there.

22 MR. BROCKMAN: Additional thoughts,

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1 comments? We have a comment from online.

2 Tony Gioffredi. Tony, I hope I didn't

3 mess your name up too badly.

4 The main factor in unplanned shutdowns of

5 reciprocating compressors is the compressor valve.

6 Each time there is a valve failure the machine must

7 be stopped and opened to replace the valve, resulting

8 in methane releases to the environment.

9 Thanks, Tony.

10 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so moving on to the

11 next slide.

12 (Slide.)

13 MR. COFFEY: Having outlined some of the

14 types of losses, here are now some technology options

15 for improving compressor efficiency. We'll start

16 with reciprocating compressors. One option is to

17 improve the valve design; another is to use

18 actively tuned manifolds, which helps with the

19 pressure wave management. There's some evidence that

20 slower-speed reciprocating compressors may be more

21 efficient because of reduced pumping losses. And

22 then lastly, using efficient pulsation controls. So,

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like they typically have something called "bottles"

2 that help smooth out the pulsations that contribute

3 significantly to the losses.

4 MR. BROOKMAN: We have additional comment

5 from Tony.

6 Tony says, in addition, one of the

7 largest losses in reciprocating compressors is due to

8 the compressor valve. I believe that this is an area

9 that should have more focus. In fact, there are

10 options today to improve valve efficiency by up to 40

11 percent, which, in turn, improves the compressor by 6

12 to 15 percent.

13 Okay. Thank you, Tony. Yes, Terry.

14 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with INGAA.

15 Again, in the research workshop that was

16 going on, there's tradeoffs between improved

17 technology and having to do more maintenance. As was

18 mentioned by a previous speaker, if you do have to

19 go in and replace valves more often you're actually

20 losing quite a bit of gas. And while it is not the

21 inherent efficiency of compressing that gas because

22 you are losing the product you are losing an overall

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1 efficiency on the product itself in transporting it.

2 MR. BROCKMAN: Okay.

3 MR. COFFEY: Something else not on the

4 slide, but I thought to mention is that generally

5 these standards are being considered for new

6 equipment and so when people make reference to the

7 efficiency improvements possible, Terry, in the

8 workshop that we were at, there was a lot of

9 discussion about retrofit and the opportunity for

10 improvement there, particularly, since some of the

11 equipment still in operation is of a very old vintage

12 and technology has advanced since then.

13 So, I think in comments it's important to

14 make note of whether improvement opportunities are

15 relative to retrofit equipment or whether they're

16 relative to the equipment that's being shipped new

17 today.

18 MR. BROCKMAN: Dan Hannon, who's joining

19 us via the web, says valve efficiency and valve

20 reliability oppose each other in most cases.

{

21 So, thanks, Dan.

22 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so moving on then to

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1 the next slide, we have technology options first for

2 centrifugal compressors. Again, not an exhaustive

3 list, no pun intended, but one of the options is to

4 use variable vane geometry. That could be either on

5 the intake side or on the diffuser side, on the

6 exhaust side and another would be using a dry gas

7 shaft seals instead of oil-flooded seals.

8 And then, in general, there's an idea

9 that removing heat in between compression stages can

10 be an overall enhancement of efficiency. This,

11 obviously, can't be done -- there's a diminishing

12 return to adding more stages, but sometimes

13 multi-staging is used to improve overall energy

14 efficiency.

15 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Terry.

16 MR. BOSS: This is Terry Boss with INGAA.

17 As I stated before, in the paper

18 discussing a lot of efficiency improvements that we

19 have in the present system of operating is that there

20 are multiple compression sources that could be

21 operated in parallel or in series, and it depends on

22 which ones you turn on and turn off so that you

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1 maintain good compression ratios and flow

2 characteristics where the prime movers stay within

3 their efficient operating range. So, just the

4

efficiency of the unit itself is one aspect, but how

5 you actually utilize the unit in a transportation

6 system makes a big difference on the efficiency.

7 MR. BROOKMAN: We have another comment

8 from Gary Choquette, who says: dry gas seals are not

9 well suited for dirty gas conditions.

10 Okay.

11 MR. COFFEY: Okay, then we'll move on to

12 the next slide, please.

13 (Slide.)

14 MR. COFFEY: On the prime mover side, we

15 also have some technology options for improving

16 efficiency. For reciprocating engines there's

17 turbo-charging, which is, conceptually, almost a form

18 of heat recovery that's fed locally back into the

19 unit, higher speed -- and one question we had was

20 whether the fact that some of the higher speed

21 reciprocating units appeared to offer higher

22 efficiency was just because they're more modern

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1 technology or whether there's an efficiency advantage

2 inherent in actually operating an engine at higher

3 speed, and then, advanced ignition systems, which may be

4 capable of igniting higher air fuel ratios than

5 what's traditionally used?

6 On the gas turbine side, inlet air

7 cooling, depending on climate may be able to boost

8 efficiency of the prime mover. And then,

9 universally, using air fuel controls that allow the

10 unit to more closely match the specific operating

11 conditions it's under and maybe also compensate for

12 variations in the heat content of the fuel source can

13 be an energy saver in certain applications.

14 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry, please.

15 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with INGAA.

16 T don't want to drag on lunch, but one of

17 the conflicts that we do have is that a lot of the

18 higher requirements for environmental characteristics

19 are changing some of the air fuel ratios out there,

20 which is requiring us to use different technology out

21 there. And in some cases, you may be using rich fuel

22 rather than lean fuel and so that's driving, that's

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1 the changes that are occurring on the outside of just

2 efficiency that are affecting some of our

3 characteristics.

4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. John Rinaldo has

5 asked that his phone be unmuted. John, let's try it

6 and see if we can hear you in the room.

7 MR. RINALDO: I just wanted to comment on

8 the dry gas seals. The dry gas seals can't work

9 directly with dirty gas, but they are certainly

10 applicable if you simply put in a labyrinth seal between

11 the dirty gas in the seal and buffer it with the gas,

12 which is easy to do.

13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you, John.

14 MR. COFFEY: Okay, moving on to the next

15 slide. Here we are.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. COFFEY: Technology options --

18 MR. BROOKMAN: We have one more comment

19 before you move on.

20 MR. COFFEY: Okay.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: Gary Choquette says: higher

22 speed engines have higher friction losses than the

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1 low-speed engines. Low-speed engines can match or

2

exceed high-speed engine efficiencies with modern

3 equipment and controls.

4 Okay, back to Brian.

5 MR. COFFEY: So, now we're to heat

6 recovery. We talked a little bit about this earlier,

7 but gas compression may lose as much as 75 or 80

8 percent of the input energy to heat generation, and

9 the heat recovery systems use heat generated by both

1 10 the compressor, the heat of compression, and the prime

^f

11 mover exhaust heat for several possible applications.

E

12 One of those is just directly in water

13 and space heating, and the second would be to -®

14 actually generate electricity. Both of those are

15 clearly dependent on having a demand for the heat or

16 the power, or proximity to a site where it could be

17 economically applied. So, there are some challenges,

18 but in certain cases it can certainly be used to save

19 energy.

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Steve Rosenstock.

21 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, EEI.

22 Again, it's really very

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1 application-specific. In terms of water heating, if

2 they're rarely occupied you have this water heating

3 and the energy savings could be minimal just because

4 there's very low occupancies at these places.

5 In terms of electricity generation, you

6 say use it to create high temperature and high

7 pressure, well, it depends on what is the -- after

8 the compressor, what is the actual characteristics of

9 that heat that's recoverable, or how much will you

10 have to raise the temperature? You have to raise the

11 pressure if you do, then all of a sudden you have to

12 have even more equipment on site to do that type of

13 operation. So, there's a lot of, again, very

14 site-specific applications and so I think in terms of

15 -- and especially in terms of an efficiency standard,

16 again, going back to what I said earlier just to try

17 to do any sort of test efficiency would be very

18 difficult because it's so site and application

19 specific.

20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Terry.

21 MR. BOSS: I agree with Steve. Like I

22 said, it's a question of the scope of this and how

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1 it's broken up. We do have additional information on

2 heat recovery on these units where they've tried

3 organic rankine cycles, but to give you an idea, the

4 economics of those from the providers was from our

5 large units where you had to have at least 16,000

6 horsepower of turbine capacity available 60 percent

7 of the time to make it economically feasible to put

$ the equipment on there.

9 So clearly, its application-specific on

10 those sorts of things and needs to be analyzed

11 separately as you're moving through this process.

12 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.

13 MR. COFFEY: So, now we get into a string

14 of requests for comments.

15 Next slide, please.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. COFFEY: DOE is aware that an

18 important application of natural gas compressors is

19 in the transportation, production, and processing of

20 natural gas. DOE seeks comment on other major

21 applications; for example, injection, withdrawal,

22 lifting, or filling in which natural gas compressors

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1 are used.

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's just pause there.

3 Any additional major applications? Terry.

4

MR. BOSS: I think what you're addressing

5 here is the use of storage and that is roughly

6 parallel to some of the other points that you're

7 making in here, but the efficiencies of using storage

8 is that you do not have to design an infrastructure

9 to match the peaks that are out there. So, in some

10 cases 30 percent of the peak load may be taken care

11 of by the storage facilities, relying on quite a few

12 or less assets in order to accomplish that goal.

13 So, you've got efficiency on essentially

14 the capital assets that you're building to do this

15 storage and that sort of thing where you do have to

16 inject it into a field and bring it back out, so

17 there's tradeoffs on that. So, again, it's the scope

18 on what we're talking about on that.

19 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.

20 MR. COFFEY: And then Item 6.2, DOE also

21 seeks information regarding any particular

22 characteristics or features that are unique to each

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1 of these different applications.

2 MR. BROOKMAN: Steve.

3 MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock.

4 Again, once you get into the end user

5 category, talking to manufacturers, a lot of them

6 aren't going to be 24/7, and it's going to be -- like

7 chemical manufacturers and some of the big users are

8 likely to use gas compressors.

9 I think it's really important to see what

10 their operating hours are going to be because for

11 that segment of the economic analysis that's going to

12 have a huge impact if there are one, two, or three

13 shifts on the manufacturing side.

14 MR. COFFEY: Moving on, Item 6.3, next

15 slide, please.

16 (Slide.)

17 MR. COFFEY: DOE seeks input on gas

18 leakage by equipment type and on data that may help

19 characterize the amount of leakage by a specific

20 source.

21 And I'll say again that were discussing

22 leakage in this context as something that affects

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I energy efficiency. There are other efforts underway

2 by different areas of DOE that are looking at the

3 emissions consequences, but we're really focusing on

4

what's the impact to energy efficiency.

5 Item 6.4, DOE seeks input on -- I'm

6 sorry. Does someone have a comment?

7

MR. BROOKMAN: Terry.

8 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with INGAA.

9 I think both Items 6.4 and 6.5 there's a i

10 very detailed process within EPA right now called

11 "Subpart W" that tries to categorize all these values

12 in there. They are in the process of expanding

13 Subpart W to incorporate some other areas, so that

14 will, over time, clarify these values better than

15 what have been estimated in the past on that. But

16 right now, we do have fairly good estimates in

17 relative terms through everybody else.

18 MR. BROOKMAN: Is that in the Energy Star

19 Program?

20 MR. BOSS: No. It is actually a

2! reporting process. There's a reporting process for

22 CO2 reporting and methane losses. Within EPA,

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I there's been a rulemaking out for several years.

2 Like I said, they're refining that right now on some

3 of those. Some use emission factors. Some use

4 actual on-site measurement that are in there, and

5 it's a pretty intricate process right now.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you.

7 MR. COFFEY: Okay, I think Item 6.4 is

8 next. DOE seeks input on technologies available to

9 reduce gas leakage, including the cost effectiveness

10 and applicability of each.

11 Item 6.5, DOE requests specific comment

12 on compressor blow-down, including estimated leak

13 volume, technologies that are able to reduce blow14 down frequency and also capture the gas blown down.

15 So, I think for the benefit of everybody who's not

16 familiar with compressor technology this is when the

17 compressor is taken from high pressure to low

18 pressure abruptly. It could be for maintenance. It

19 could be because the unit is not expected to be used

20 within a certain window of time. It could be for

21 safety, but depending on how often it occurs, it may

22 or may not be a significant source of wasted energy.

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I Okay, moving on, Item 6.6, DOE seeks

2 comment regarding the typical energy use of gas

3 compressors broken down by, where available,

4 application type, equipment type, and equipment size.

5 Item 6.7, DOE seeks recommendations on

6 sources of data for analysis methods that would

7 demand profiles for gas compressors and their end use

8 applications. Further, DOE seeks comment on what gas

9 compressor design features would affect their typical

10 demand profile.

11 And then Item 6.8, DOE seeks

12 recommendations on sources of data or analysis on the

13 fraction of time, in hours, per year that gas

14 compressors spend at off-design, which means

15 efficiencies other than the specified design point,

16 operation under normal operating conditions.

17 Item 6.9, DOE seeks comment on the types

18 and rate of adoption of different control systems that

19 are employed to adjust the gas compressor's output to

20 meet end-use application demands during off-design

21 operation.

22 MR. BROOKMAN: So, those are a lot of

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1 requests for comment. Any additional thoughts,

2 comments here, noting that you have plenty of

3 opportunity to provide written comments? Nothing

4 additional here? Okay.

5 MR. COFFEY: Item 6.10, DOE is interested

6 in information about typical range in efficiency

7 levels of gas compressors broken down by equipment

8 type and size and why that range exists. For

9 example, do more efficient compressors incorporate

10 particular design features?

11 Item 6.11, DOE seeks comment about how

12 gas compressor efficiency is likely to change with

13 time in the absence of standards.

14 Item 6.12, DOE is interested in what

i5 opportunities, if any, for improving gas compressor

16 efficiency are possible.

17 So, some of these are very specific.

18 Some of them are more broad. Really, they're seeking

19 input that would help DOE quantify how much energy is

20 being used by these pieces of equipment currently and

21 than what would be the case in a hypothetical case of

22 a standard.

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Item 6.13, DOE requests comment about any

2 compressor features that represent usefulness or

3 utility to the user, such as pressure flow, fuel

4 type, physical size, affordability, serviceability,

5 emissions, acoustic noise, and also on applications

6 in which particular forms of utility may be

7 especially important. Additionally, how would an

8 effort to increase energy efficiency of a compressor

9

affect all those features?

10 6.14, DOE seeks comment about whether

11 installation cost for gas compressors change with

12 higher efficiency equipment. If so, DOE seeks

13 comment about the reasons for, and the amount of, such

14 an increase.

15 Almost there. DOE seeks comment about

16 whether maintenance costs for gas compressors change

17 with higher efficiency equipment. If so, DOE seeks

18 comment about the reasons for, and the amount of, such

19 a change.

20 Item 6.16, DOE seeks comment about

21 whether repair costs for natural gas compressors

22 change with higher efficiency equipment. If so, DOE

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1 seeks comment about the reasons for, and amount of,

2

such a change. So, this could be unplanned versus

3 planned maintenance.

4 Item 6.17, DOE recognizes that gas

5 compressors can have a very long mechanical lifetime

6

in terms of hours of operation. While many factors

7 contribute to equipment lifetime, DOE seeks data

8 about the mechanical lifetime for gas compressors

9 under typical operating conditions. Further, DOE

10 seeks comment about whether differences in equipment

11 design or capacity would affect gas compressor

12 lifetime.

13 And then finally, 6.18, DOE seeks

114 recommendation of sources of data or analysis methods

15 correlating gas compressor maintenance and repair

16 with gas compressor lifetime and efficiency.

17 MR. BROOKMAN: So, I thought it was

18 useful to have that level of detail in the record for

19 anybody that wishes to consult that in addition to

20 these slides, which will be posted online as they

21 prepare their written comments. Terry.

22 MR. BOSS: Terry Boss with INGAA.

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1 I very much appreciate this venue to be

2 able to discuss this thing and provide any

3 information. I would recommend that we proceed in an

4 incremental process of understanding the basics and

5 getting more complicated as we go there. Because

6 being sure everybody's on the same page when we deal

7 with these sort of things because the information, as

8 we get more detailed in some of these technical

9 levels on some of the last questions we're going to

10 be involved, there's more sparse information on

11 those.

12 And so a clear understanding of the

13 basics on how things run and they put together are very

14 important, and then this layered information could be

15 put on there. But I would say the interactive nature

16 of the meeting or workshop is very positive rather

17 than trying to articulate these on paper. Sometimes

18 it gets quite complicated for engineers to articulate

19 specific technical ideas on those sort of things, so

20 appreciate this kind of venue.

21 MR. BROOKMAN: You recall the earlier

22 slides where Brian was laying out the detailed

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1 process, and so there are many opportunities for

2 anybody that wishes to, to comment.

3 Okay, so now we're moving on to screening

4 analysis.

5 MR. COFFEY: Yes, I think we'll be pretty

6 quick, just a few short words here.

7 The purpose of the screening analysis --

8 well, let me back up and say while the technology

9 assessment that we just finished talking about is

10 intended to be comprehensive and inclusive of all the

11 technologies that could improve compressor efficiency

12 the screening analysis, by contrast, is intended to

13 remove certain options based on four statutorily

14 given screening criteria.

15 And go to the next slide and we can see

16 what they are.

17 (Slide.)

18 MR. COFFEY: I'll just read them. It's

19 technological feasibility, so not considering

20 technology that's not commercially available;

21 practicability to manufacture, install, and service,

22 so this screens out technology that can't be

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1 manufactured, installed, or serviced on the scale needed

2 to serve the market; impacts on product utility or

3 availability to consumers; and then finally, impacts

4 to health or safety, which sounds like it's

5 definitely a consideration for this equipment.

6 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Terry.

7 MR. BOSS: Quick question on the

8 interpretation of these criteria, more from a legal

9 aspect, so health or safety would include the

10 environmental impacts?

11 MR. KIDO: Yes.

12 MR. BROOKMAN: Michael Kido.

13 MR. KIDO: That's all rolled up into

14 that analysis.

15 MR. BOSS: Okay.

16 MR. KIDO: But I would add, in this

17 case, given the type of equipment we're talking about

1 8 here there's obviously another element here to safety

19 that we have to consider.

20 MR. COFFEY: Okay, so then on the next

2 1 slide we have a request for comment on these

22 criteria. DOE is interested in how these efficiency

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I improvements would impact equipment performance,

2 features, utility, or safety. We've had a couple

3 already.

4 MS. HARIHARAN: This is Johanna Hariharan

5 here, DOE.

6 T just want to add here that this the part

7 where you would make your comments about equipment

8 classes.

9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. Thank

10 you, Brian.

11 Moving on, as we promised first thing

12 this morning, is another opportunity for closing

13 remarks, brief summary comments, any additional

14 information that anybody wishes to offer here as we

15 move towards closure. Steve.

16 MR. ROSENSTOCK: This is Steve

17 Rosenstock, Edison Electric Institute. iE

18 I wanted to thank the Department for

19 having this workshop. I think there was some very

20 good information discussed. I think that by doing

21 this and going in and looking at the various

22 technologies out there in the fuel and market in a

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1 neutral way I think that there are going to be hopefully

2 some good options and good results from this rulemaking.

3 Thank you.

4

MR. BROCKMAN: Thank you.

5 So then, for my part, I think we've

6 concluded the content that we came to cover here.

7 And I'm going to turn it back to Jim Raba for closing

8 remarks.

9 MR. RABA: This is Jim Raba, DOE.

10 You see on the screen now the

(F,. 11 instructions for submitting comments and all your

12 correspondence. Please refer to what you see up

1 3 there, the docket number and the regulatory

14 identifier number. It's very helpful to track these

15 and keep them in order.

16 Comments can be submitted in various

17 ways, electronically, the webpage or the email

18 address rather, postal mail, by courier. And if you

19 have any questions, a phone number is there you can

20 call. Ms. Brenda Edwards will be very happy to help

21 you to assist you with submitting any comments.

22 But it's been a good session today, very

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1 informative all around, and thank you to the

2 presenters and the guests we have here today, both in

3 person and on the web for our webinar, and special

4 appreciation from the Department of Energy for your

5 participation, which is most important to this

6 rulemaking, so thank you for a very productive

7 meeting.

8 Also, our presenters, Brian Coffey and

9 Michael Brown and our technical crew backstage to

10 make sure all these things function properly, and

11 certainly Doug Brookman who made this possible, the

12 facilitator.

13 So, we look forward now to receiving your

14 comments, data, information about today's topics on

15 gas compressors, and there will be more opportunity

16 for public comments. So, thank you very much again

17 and safe travels.

18 (Whereupon at 11:46 a.m., this meeting

19 was adjourned.)

20

21

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115:12 119:6,7

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purchaser 64:20

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61,000 77:14

7

75 113:7

8

8,000 77:13

80 52:12 113:7

8000 72:9

9

90 96:13 102:4

91 102:8

92 102:8

93 102:8

95 60:21 92:11 95:2

102:8

97 102:8

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