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# Discussions with DTRA: Episode 6

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- Discussions with DTRA:Episode 6

## Discussions with DTRA Podcast: Around the Microphone

> *DTRA, the premier agency for meeting the challenges of WMD and emerging threats.*

The DTRA Podcast series provides agency members with a platform to discuss interesting mission-related, morale-boosting or special interest item topics. The goal of our program is to deliver cross-talk that educates and informs audiences in an effort to support employee engagement and target potential outreach opportunities. Listeners can anticipate hearing conversations that are agency director-supported, amplify agency's core functions and convey mission intent in segments that range from 20 to 40 minutes.

## Episode 6: IMAAC TOOLS EXPLAINED - Hosted by The Hazmat Guys

Length: 35:46

The Hazmat Guys sat down with Dugger Kemp, Andy Grose and Brendan Zinn from the Interagency Modeling and Atmospheric Assessment Center (IMAAC). An exciting, no cost, service available which is led by FEMA in collaboration DOD (DTRA), DOE, EPA, HHS, NOAA, NRC. IMAAC is a federal interagency organization that produces and disseminates modeling products for major HAZMAT incidents in the U.S. Serving as the IMAAC Technical Operations Hub under an inter-agency agreement with FEMA, DTRA provides 24/7 hazard modeling and coordination for the IMAAC program.

The Hazmat Guys Website - View Video of the Conversation

Follow the Hazmat Guys on your favorite podcast channel

**Moderator**:The Hazmat Guys,Bobby Salvesen and Michael Monaco

**Interviewee**:Brendan Zinn Operations Manager of the 24/7 Technical Operations Hub Defense Threat Reduction Agency

**Interviewee**:Andy Grose IMAAC Technical Operations Hub Defense Threat Reduction Agency

**Interviewee**:Dugger Kemp IMAAC director at FEMA Office of Emerging Threats

 

### Transcript

 

Bobby Salvesen:

Hey everybody, I'm Bobby Salvesen.

Michael Monaco:

And I'm Michael Monaco. And together we are The Hazmat Guys, connecting the hazmat community near and far with knowledge, insight, and real world examples in an effort to make your job just a little bit easier and safer.

Bobby Salvesen:

Let's get to the show.

Michael Monaco:

Hey everybody! And welcome back to another award-winning episode of The Hazmat Guys, where me and Bob pat each other on the back relentlessly and tell each other how good we are.

Bobby Salvesen:

Awesome.

Michael Monaco:

Hey. We have a really cool show today. In one of our round tables... Not the round table, the happy hours, somebody turned around and they said, "Hey, Mike, have you heard it all about the IMAAC?" And I was like, "Nope, haven't heard about it at all. What is it?" So he starts talking about it a little bit. I go, "You know what? We are definitely going to see if we can get these guys onto the show." And it's not often that we are able to do something like this so quickly with such a large body of the people who are creating it and sending it out there. So without further ado, we are going to be talking IMAAC today.

Bobby Salvesen:

Yes, and before we introduce our friends that are on the screen, for anybody that's listening to this in audio only, this is going to be a free video. Come on and check it out on the website or we're probably going to put this on YouTube, on both your side and our side just so we can spread the word about this stuff. But welcome IMAAC, and hi, guys.

Brendan Zinn:

Hello.

Andy Grose:

Hello.

Dugger Kemp:

Hi.

Bobby Salvesen:

Why don't you guys go around and introduce yourselves please.

Dugger Kemp:

So I'm Dugger Kemp. I'm a IMAAC director. I work in the FEMA Office of Emerging Threats. We just formed actually yesterday. Prior to that-

Bobby Salvesen:

Congratulations.

Dugger Kemp:

We were the CBRN office. But other than that, I do all the main day to day with my partner right here, Andy Grose over at DTRA, who manages the Technical Operations Hub, but I'll let him introduce himself.

Andy Grose:

All right. I'm Andy Grose, Defense Threat Reduction Agency. I partner with Dugger here at FEMA to run the 24/7 operations for modeling and atmospheric assessment products.

Bobby Salvesen:

That's awesome.

Brendan Zinn:

I'm Brendan Zinn, I'm a contractor at the Defense Threat Reduction Agency. I work for ARA, Applied Research Associates, and I am one of the operations managers of the 24/7 Technical Operations Hub.

Bobby Salvesen:

Before we get into exactly what we're talking about today, I have to say... I have to point out for one second, when I heard FEMA is coming on, I'm like, "It's going to be like... I don't know, earbuds that are wired with broken earpieces." You guys have the best setup I've ever seen and the audio and the visual is awesome. Thank you for doing that. Especially these guys. It's off to the side, but thank you so much for doing that. We are bringing you what product?

Dugger Kemp:

So what is IMAAC?

Michael Monaco:

Yes, what is IMAAC?

Dugger Kemp:

What is IMAAC? So IMAAC is the Inter-agency Modeling and Atmospheric Assessment Center. We provide atmospheric modeling prediction products for hazmat events, to any of our federal, state, local, tribal and territorial partners that are out there that are sponsored. And it's zero cost. So if you were to have a large spill of... An easy one is chlorine. And you wanted to know the downwind hazard and it was a major incident, it required... It could be required one jurisdiction, it could require a multi-agency response. You could call us 24/7, you will talk to a person, you will tell us what your problem is and roughly within an hour we would get you a modeling product and help you with some operational decisions and explain it.

Bobby Salvesen:

So how can the IMAAC incorporate into the response? What would it do for me as a decision maker and a first responder that nothing else will be able to?

Andy Grose:

Well, I think that the importance is it gives you an idea of the scope of the incident you're talking about. So you tell us what's the hazmat, how much, we can tell you... We try to scope it down for you. Is this something that's going to affect a small city block? A neighborhood? Or is this something that's like a big deal, that's going to be multiple jurisdictions going to be involved, in either the cleanup or... Help make decisions on should you evacuate, shelter in place, egress, safe approach routes, where to set up a command post, where to set up monitoring, stuff like that so that it kind of gives you a picture of how big of an incident you're talking about. So you can have an idea of how many people you're going to need. Do you need to bring in more folks to help? Do you need to start blocking off roads? Stuff like that. A lot of times I think you may just may not know, "We've spilled this much stuff. Okay, how big of a mess is that going to be?" That's where we come in.

Michael Monaco:

So it's kind of going to give an incident commander an actual prediction of where the stuff is going, how the concentrations are going to be, depending on where you are in the location. And then from there to be able to be like, "Oh, okay, I see. This route could potentially be closed off for evacuation purposes. We're going to route everybody around here. Or this is right on the border of my jurisdiction, but look, the wind is going to push it into Joe's jurisdiction down the road. Let's get them involved."

Dugger Kemp:

Yes, exactly. It's also just as much as the responder is an emergency manager for even your messaging to really put out that evacuation notice, "Where is it going?" Help make those decisions: Should you shelter in place? Should you tell people to leave? What is your duration time? When is it actually dispersing? When is it done? When is it going to clear out? There's a lot of things.

Bobby Salvesen:

I love it. And obviously we have a relatively large listenership and people that are invested in not only the community, but just being responsible operators, operations level, haz technicians, specialist level... And there probably... What's the accessibility? I mean, who is this? Who can use it? Who has access to that information? I have a question of, "Listen, okay, if I ask you for this information, can I share it with other people?" Or something like that. So who can use it, first off?

Dugger Kemp:

So like I said, any federal, state, tribal, territorial, local response official emergency manager. Our goal is to make the community safe. So what does that mean? I mean, depending on the jurisdiction's policies, that could be whoever's responding or it could be the governor, it could be the administrator of a federal agency. I mean any level... Pretty much we'll support anybody that's not contacting us with a Gmail account. I will draw the line there because we do want to develop... They are controlled documents. Andy can talk more about that, but with the response community, as long as... We don't want them to be shared publicly. I mean unless they're cleared. That's not saying it can't happen. But anybody from the first responder up that's a part of the response or whatever the incident may be, can go, "Hey, call this phone number and get some help."

Michael Monaco:

I love it. So where we worked, our resource guy, which is just a normal firefighter, they could absolutely initiate this?

Andy Grose:

Yeah. Yes.

Michael Monaco:

So how does the activation itself work? From start to finish, right? I'm responding in, I realize I might have... Oh, God. Well, you said chlorine before, so we'll just use chlorine. Chlorine spilled. Okay. What's the process?

Andy Grose:

So once you have the information as far as a good feel for what's going on, you call. We have an 877 number. And we'll share at the end. When you call that number and say, "I'd like to activate the IMAAC," then we go into basically production mode. So we got people that know, "Here's what we need to ask." As much information as we can get from you, the better. So better information makes a better model. So where did it happen? When did it happen? All these things are approximate, but if the better information, it's going to be a better model. Are we talking a spill? Is it a leak, is it a fire? Did something explode? Are we talking about just a building that's on fire that has stuff in it? Or do you specifically know there was a chemical or a gas that was released?and maybe an estimate of how much.

So at that point when we wrap up the phone call, we say, "Well, we've got everything we need." Then we go into production mode. We alert our inter-agency partners that we've been activated for the incident. We make assumptions to fill in the gaps that might exist. If somebody doesn't know the exact location or the exact time or whatever, we'll fill in some assumptions there. And we start creating the model. Put in all that information that goes in, the where, the what, the when, how much. We'll take a look at the weather and then we run the model, spit the model out, put it into a nice format that shows you... It gives you maps and maybe some... Basically putting it on a Google Maps type of... Or imagery to help so that somebody can locate stuff if they're on the ground.

And then when that model is done, we send it out to the internet agency group, the person who requested it, and then we want to have that interagency conversation to describe who activated us, what we modeled, what does the model mean, how to interpret it, how many people might be affected, especially what areas are maybe the worst, the most affected, more than others. And just have that conversation. Hopefully the requester will be on the line with us to give us any additional information that may have popped up since we wrapped up the first phone call.

And just then talk about it. Where do we go from here? Do we need to do an update overnight? Sometimes some of these things we activate for are large recycling plant fires or sometimes a tire fire, something like that that's going to be a long duration. And so we'd say, "We'll do an update every two hours, every four hours, every six hours," whatever it might be. And kind of leave it up to the person who called us to dictate that schedule. I mean they're the ones that... You guys are the ones that need the product from us. So we're kind of at your beck and call to say, "How often do you need this stuff? What specifically do you want to see, to help you make the decisions you need to make?" And then go from there.

Michael Monaco:

Do you guys, with the advent of... And this is kind of a side question, but I'm just curious about it because with where we are in technology and stuff like that, do you guys have the ability of, if I call you, you saying, "Hey, listen, can you take a couple pictures?" Or does that really not move your ball? Where I can send you some additional on the ground kind of stuff? Or is that not really helpful for you?

Brendan Zinn:

No, it can absolutely be helpful, depending on what they're pictures of, but-

Michael Monaco:

Of course.

Brendan Zinn:

I mean, if it's just sort of a rail car in the distance, it's not so useful, but it can show you there's a fire. What sort of release rate is occurring? If you're trying to guess, a picture might be able to give you an idea of, "Okay, it's a really big leak versus it's a really small leak," something like that. [inaudible 00:12:57]

Michael Monaco:

And more... Go ahead, sorry. Go.

Dugger Kemp:

Oh, I was going to say, yeah, to agree with Brendan, assist with that dispersion rate, to really hone in the size of... How big is the gash? Was it just a forklift that poked a hole? Or did it tear the side of whatever open?

Michael Monaco:

Right. All right, so that brings me to... Let's say I'm a smaller department. Let's say I'm a real small department. I might have 7-0 guys in my whole department. And again this might not be your lane, but would you guys be able to help out me as a small department with some recommendations of... Besides saying, "Just look at the ERG." Are you guys in that business?

Brendan Zinn:

So, I'm a little hesitant just because... So we provide decision support.

Michael Monaco:

For me.

Brendan Zinn:

Right. We don't make decisions for you because ultimately you're the one-

Michael Monaco:

That's fair.

Brendan Zinn:

You're the one who has to be responsible for whatever the consequences are. So we're not going to make the call for you. And-

Michael Monaco:

No, that's why I kind of figured that you guys are just the tool that's for me to use. And I wouldn't expect it because you should have mutual aid agreements in place already. As me as small department, I'm just calling you guys as a tool. You guys have a team of people that assemble that tool. So when you guys were saying you provide a product, I probably should have put the cart before the horse and asked you what exactly is the product?

Brendan Zinn:

Yeah, so the product is typically going to be a PowerPoint or a PDF, like a sort of briefing type thing. And it'll show basically either colored contours, if it's a hazardous material. So things like AAGLs or ERPGs or PACs or whatever, that show where we think the hazards will occur. Or potentially, if it's an explosion, you might see distance rings. Like, "This is how far the explosive effects could travel." And then the briefing product itself will also have information on what sort of assumptions we made in the models and explanation slides that explain what you're looking at. So if you don't know what AAGLs are, there's an explanation of what AAGLs are. And then we try to... On the actual briefing products... So that's like the slide you guys have with the sulfur dioxide.

Michael Monaco:

Yeah, we could probably bring up that sulfur dioxide slide.

Brendan Zinn:

Yeah, maybe we'll talk to that.

Bobby Salvesen:

Let's see what we got here. Oh, that's nice.

Brendan Zinn:

Yep. So this is kind of what a briefing product would look like. I say kind of because this is sort of changed a little for to make it publicly releasable. But this is sort of what the money slide in the briefing would look like. So the color contours indicate effects. So the red is the eagle three, orange is the eagle two, and then we include information about how much stuff we were assuming was released. When was it released? What did we use for the weather model? What's the location of this incident? This one's from the Arkema, Crosby, Texas incident. One part of several products we did for that one. But this is basically roughly what a briefing product would look like.

And then in addition to that, we usually provide either [inaudible 00:16:55] files or KML. So if you have your own mapping system, you can put it on into your own maps instead of what we used. If you need to zoom in or you know want to particularly look at a... You want to put say where your incident command post is relative to the plume, which we won't know unless you tell us. So.

Michael Monaco:

When it says, "A dissemination released over two hours," is this saying that, "At the two hour mark of this release, this is what our concentrations are expected to look like?"

Brendan Zinn:

So the eagles are time integrated effects. So that's the effects, judging by the plume, I'm going to guess over four hours, although most of the effects are probably happening in the... If it was a release over two hours, most of the effects are probably happening in about two hours and 20 minutes. We can also show... So that's a time integrated effect. So this is the [inaudible 00:17:59] over a four-hour period. We can also show plots that are snapshots in time. So this is what the concentration looks like at exactly one hour and five minutes or something like that.

Michael Monaco:

Okay, so you're showing for the entire duration of the event, assuming it's a four-hour event, that this is where my AAGLs for level two would be, and so on and so forth. Okay. So if I know I have a 10-hour duration, those maps are going to be totally different than versus a four-hour duration.

Andy Grose:

Right. I think one other point that I would make is that this type of thing where you're talking about time-integrated... So a lot of times we might not get called right as soon as something happens. A lot of times we get called maybe an hour or two later. And so the first... A snapshot in time of 15 minutes, 30 minutes after it's already... The time has already passed. So this type of look kind of gives you an overall look at the whole incident. So if you're saying which areas or which neighborhoods probably got hit or there might be residual stuff on the ground or on a building, this type of look will show you that. It might be more useful than something a snapshot in time, from a time that's already passed.

Michael Monaco:

Right. For decision making, that's really what we care about or we care about what the effects of the people are long term or throughout a duration, not just, "Hey, at 10:00, this was at 500 parts per million here and this was 300 parts per million there."

Bobby Salvesen:

Do you guys have the ability of forecasting... Not to rub the Magic Bowl or anything, but can you say, "Hey listen, this is where we estimate things based upon topography and weather and blah blah blah," that you can say, "Hey, listen, this is where your plume's probably going to be in four hours?" Or is that beyond it right now?

Brendan Zinn:

Yes, we do that all the time. We, a lot of times, do forecasts maybe like 12 to 24 hours out, in discrete time. So maybe every four hours, eight hours, 12 hours, et cetera, to estimate where's the concentration going to be. Because the weather, it changes directions. You could get a front moving through, things like that. So the only tricky thing with forecasting the future is the source term a lot of times is also changing in time and sometimes we don't know. If you got a big fire going on, we're going to assume some rate that it's burning at. Eight hours from now, you may have it much better under control than you did when we started running the model. So we don't necessarily do a lot of predictions about, "Okay, well the fire's going to be a lot smaller in eight hours." It's more like, "Okay, it's going to be going this way and affecting these areas in eight hours."

Bobby Salvesen:

Makes a lot of sense.

Dugger Kemp:

Because we're not there. We can't see the burn rate. We're just trying to give you an excellent snapshot in time so you can make the right decisions.

Michael Monaco:

Right. This is almost the theoretical possibility of what it is, but then we always have to take our meters and our observations and confirm what reality is so we can make game plans based upon the theory. Just like we do chemical physical properties. I know this material is supposed to go up when it releases and in fact it's down. Well, what's the actual readings? What are my meters are going to tell me? What's actually going on?

Dugger Kemp:

That's exactly right. And that goes back to that whole us not making decisions. We are not there. You're there. You see the weather change faster than we do. Even though we provide you a snapshot in time over six hours, that didn't mean that we didn't know that the weather completely changed by the time you got the product. Within that... Maybe it's a 30-minute difference from when the modeling was done, and the weather changed in that 30 minutes that you actually received the product and reviewed it. We're not there we're never going to show up at your incident to-

Bobby Salvesen:

Yeah, no. And I think that's one of the questions they were going to ask is that they're going to be like, "Oh, well if I call these guys and I have people on the phone, they're going to offer me opinions and advice." And it's like, "No, I'm just the tool giving you the product. You make your calls, call your people and call us back when you need more info." I think it's a cool idea.

Andy Grose:

Yeah. And I think that the point also being that we are 24/7, so we're there to... It's not like we just send you a product and wipe our hands.

Bobby Salvesen:

We're going home.

Andy Grose:

Yeah. So we have people there, if you need to call back and you don't understand something about what we sent you or how to interpret it, that's what we've got... You call us back and there's chemists, there's meteorologists, there's biologists, whatever. There's lots of smart people on the other end of the line that can help interpret those results. But we're not telling you, we're never going to tell you, what to do, we're just telling you what the model means, so that you can make your decisions.

Michael Monaco:

So how does this level of plume modeling differ from other plume models that are out there? What makes this something that somebody... This should be the go-to for a department responding for something?

Andy Grose:

So I would say that there's other tools out there that are very fast and can certainly give an answer probably quicker than we can. But the difference being that our model is a lot more refined, takes in a lot more information about the terrain and especially the forecasting ability. That we can go out... And also the size of the incident doesn't matter. We can do a big incident, we can do a small incident and we can forecast up to several days in the future.

Michael Monaco:

Wow.

Andy Grose:

That's the big thing that it takes a lot of those atmospheric things into account. The turbulence, the boundary layer going up and down during the night. Just a lot of that stuff will be taken into account. That's not to say that any of those quick running models that people have aren't useful and they certainly are. It's just that we will come in and have a more refined model with a better picture going forward using a forecast.

Bobby Salvesen:

Well, that's the thing is, when you have that product, we're not going to mention who it is or what it is, but it's operator driven. So when the guy is like, "This thing stinks," it's cause you stink and you don't know how to use it. But now if I give you that same information and I got a team of experts there that are plugging and know how to use a software, you are obviously going to get back a better product.

Dugger Kemp:

Yes. No, and the other thing I'd like to say is I don't like to necessarily say one modeling software is better than another. I look at it as like building blocks.

Michael Monaco:

Tools in a toolbox.

Dugger Kemp:

Right. Cameo and Aloha, whether it be high split... If they get you the right answer fast and then we can assist you in the long term because you're waiting an hour for us? Yes, use them. They're also our partners. I mean the EPA who is the sponsor for Cameo and Aloha and NOAA, they are a part of IMAAC. So why wouldn't I want you to use those?

Michael Monaco:

Well, and that's the question I'm getting at. At what point do I open my toolbox and I reach for you guys as the tool versus another one of my tools?

Dugger Kemp:

I would say when you get to the limitation of that modeling. Of their modeling software and you feel like you need additional help. As we've said, you're the responder, you're the one on the ground really making the decisions, seeing what is happening there. You need the support? We're here to provide you the support.

Michael Monaco:

So what else have you guys done? Are there any other instances that you guys can talk of or speak of that, "Hey listen, this is what they had. This is what we were able to give. This is kind of how we plugged into this run or this scenario?"

Brendan Zinn:

Sure. Yeah. I've been involved in... Andy too. Dugger's a little newer, but we've been involved in a lot of relatively well known hazmat incidents. Recently, the East Palestine, we were doing models for that, for the combustion of the vinyl chloride. We did about nine updates for that one over about four days. Plus one or two like post event analyses. The Arkema one that we showed the image for, that one ran about a week and I think we did nine or 10 updates for that one. They kept changing what was there. There were some uncertainties. So they weren't sure where stuff was physically located, so, "Oh, is this tank near where the stuff's burning?" "No. Yes. No. Yes." So there were a lot of updates for that one. Another big one we did was the Deer Park fire in Texas. It was a big refinery fire back in 2019.

Speaker 3:

Like a petroleum refinery?

Brendan Zinn:

Yeah. Basically one of their huge tanks caught on fire. We did models for the fire itself, which was put out within a couple of days. And then models for... There was benzene that was leaking out of either that tank or a different tank, over several days after that. We did about 27 products I think for that one, over a little over a week.

Bobby Salvesen:

I guess you guys kind of figure out when people are winding down when they stop calling.

Brendan Zinn:

That's usually a good sign. Yeah.

Bobby Salvesen:

You form a relationship and you're like, "Where'd you go, man? Where'd you go?"

Dugger Kemp:

Yeah, yeah. Well, also, responders also get busy and don't necessarily sometimes call back. You got other things to. You got what you needed. We discussed how much more support you want and then you hit that limit and they're still dealing with stuff and it's like, "Well, I get it, let's try to call them." So we're not above saying, "Hey, are you still there?"

Bobby Salvesen:

Yeah... "How's everything going?"

Michael Monaco:

You guys are part of the whole CBRNE Responder, the app that we use to put... To overlay our readings into GPS style mapping. Does that integrate at all with this software? Or are they kind of just two separate entities?

Dugger Kemp:

So that's... To expand all that. So the CBRNE Responder's a great tool because you have Chem Responder and it's and RAD Responder built in within it. We have the IMAAC portal. We feed our modeling products into the IMAAC portal. You don't have to have an account to receive them. We're going to send them to you directly as a responder because you might not use it. But the CBRNE responder and the Chem Responder are both great tools because they allow you to provide that common operating picture to what's happening on the ground. You can overlay our modeling products of KML or the files within it over the Google Earth to see where your incident's going to figure out entry routes. You can look at it, see it on the map. You can also use it to assign where you want your personnel to take readings, but it allows for a lot of integration with IMAAC. But the beauty of it is it's not 100% necessary. If you choose to use it, I kind of look at it as a force multiplier. It could help you out in the long run. If it's like any other tool, you need additional training on it. But at the same time, if all you need is a modeling product to get the job done, we have that too.

Bobby Salvesen:

Guys, I tell you what, I think there's going to be a lot of people looking to come and check this thing out. And with that, I got your information up here. This is basically just come on and talk to you guys, right? This is how you get in touch?

Dugger Kemp:

Yes. So the 877 number is our 24/7 response line. You call that number for emergencies. We like to say we're just like 911. You don't email 911, you call them. But we also do training and exercise support. So if you have an exercise coming up? Just like we said, any other tool, you don't just directly pull it out of the toolbox and have at it without training. So use us for training and request that modeling product because we'll support modeling, we'll support your exercise from just handing you a modeling product to full play and we'll walk through the process. You call and we answer the phone, take down the information, run through the time limit, provide you the product, do a teleconference with who we can get on the phone, depending on the workload at the time of your exercise. I'd like to say that our federal partners are great. They're made up the Department of Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, NOAA, I can't ever say that word. So please go ahead and say it for me. The National Oceanic Atmospheric, I don't know. Administration? Administration? Yes. Yeah, I'll admit that. I think I'm missing some people.

Andy Grose:

NRC.

Dugger Kemp:

Yep. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Andy Grose:

Health and Human Services.

Dugger Kemp:

And Health and Human Services are our federal partners. So when you have that telecon, all those agencies are there to provide the requester support.

Michael Monaco:

So you guys will do a training scenario with departments. How far in advance would we have to set that up? So let's say I was doing a training next month and it was going to be a large scale incident. I reach out to you guys and we start developing a game plan? Or I can call that day and just be like, "Hey, this is a training. We want to institute a scenario?"

Andy Grose:

I think we generally ask maybe two weeks in advance, just to make sure that we've got the time to work on it and get you something good. There's always a possibility, if there's some real world event going on, that would take precedence over an exercise. So if what your scenario is in advance, two weeks is good, but we can always work with you. It doesn't take too long to create a product. I think it's just the concern that if something real world's going on that's going to-

Brendan Zinn:

If you wait till the last minute you're you're taking a roll of the dice.

Michael Monaco:

Yeah, fair enough.

Dugger Kemp:

Like any other exercise earlier, the better, especially depending on how much of level of play you would like us to participate. Two weeks, usually we can work it out. If you wanted full play, I'd probably say three would be better. To really get everybody involved and to knock out the time. But it's not to say two weeks at a minimum for pretty much anything, we usually can make work. I don't think we've ever had to tell anybody no at two weeks.

Bobby Salvesen:

I love it. And you guys can be you... Listen, if anybody's still listening and not watching, you're a fool, first off. And second off you, I'm going to read it out for you. It's 877-240-1187. The email address is IMAAC. I-M-A-A-C @fema.dhs.gov. You can go to the portal, which is CBRNresponder.net and they do you guys do briefings and you have your own FEMA YouTube channel and you can just search for IMAAC videos on that YouTube channel, right?

Dugger Kemp:

Yes. We probably have about eight videos up right now. There's going to be a total of right around 30. I think we're pretty close to getting another nine. So we'll have a total of 18 here shortly. And that's to go over these modeling products, whether it be a chem incident or something that involves RAD Nuke or radiation. We're trying to cover a little bit of everything.

Brendan Zinn:

And these are nice short videos too.

Dugger Kemp:

Yeah, you don't have to [inaudible 00:34:11]-

Brendan Zinn:

These are three minutes. They're good for the ADD generation.

Michael Monaco:

Great, great.

Bobby Salvesen:

I love it.

Michael Monaco:

IMAAC is going to show up on my TikTok.

Bobby Salvesen:

I love it. Well, gentlemen, gentlemen, thank you so much for coming and sharing some information with us. I'm sure you're going to get a lot of phone calls, so be on the lookout.

Andy Grose:

That's good. Thank you.

Dugger Kemp:

We appreciate it. We want to be around, so thank you.

Michael Monaco:

Absolutely.

Brendan Zinn:

All right.

Bobby Salvesen:

Well, that wraps up another episode of the Hazmat Guys. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel and don't be afraid to use that like or follow button or...

Michael Monaco:

You can sign up for even more content from us at thehazmatguys.com. Here you can subscribe so that we can connect you to even more great stuff. Your support is going to help us improve and build this awesome community even more.

Bobby Salvesen:

And if you want to get to the next level, you won't want miss our premium content. Our specialist level provides you with access to our entire catalog of shows, which is now over 300. An exclusive Facebook group, premium video with no ads and so much more. Also check the Hazmat Guys University link on our website.

Michael Monaco:

And don't forget, we are always interested in hearing about incidences or calls that you have experienced. We may bring you on the show to share that story. Reach us at feedback@thehazmatguys.com.

Bobby Salvesen:

And remember folks, don't just get on the job, get into the job.

## Podcast Archives

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Episode 1: DTRA Cleans Up Vozrozhdeniya Island's 12 Tons of Anthrax

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Episode 2: Agile Development at DTRA

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Episode 3: Artificial Intelligence, Challenges, and Advice

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Episode 4: Responsible Artificial Intelligence Strategy & Implementation Pathway

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Episode 5: Breast Cancer Awareness - Knowledge is a Life Saver

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Episode 6: IMAAC TOOLS EXPLAINED - Hosted by The Hazmat Guys

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Episode 7: The Impact of AI on Cybersecurity

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Episode 8: Growing an AI-Ready DoD Workforce

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Episode 9: Science, Facts and Common Sense

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