BEFORE THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

In The Matter of: 

RODDY L. COX 

FAA DOCKET NO. CP10GL0 0 05 

FAA No. FAA-2010-0623 

zo 

Tuesday, ir 

February 1, 2 011 

Federal Building & U.S. Courthouse 

517 E. Wisconsin Avenue 

Courtroom 498 

Milwaukee, Wisconsin 

The above-entitled matter came on for 

hearing pursuant to notice at the hour of 9:00 

o'clock a.m. 

£0 

T3 5r3 

BEFORE Richard C. Goodwin 

Administrative Law Judge 

I 

FEB 15 2U11 

HEARING DOCKf: 

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APPEARANCES 

On Behalf of the Agency: 

KATE BARBER, ESQ. 

Counsel for the FAA, 

Great Lakes Region 

23 00 E. Devon Avenue 

Des Plaines, Illinois 6001 8 

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INDE X 

WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 

Jennifer Ruiz 

Edward J. Rooney 2 5 

EXHIBIT NO DESCRIPTION MARK RECD 

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P R O C E E D I N G S 

(9:00 a.m.) 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Good 

morning. 

MS. BARBER: Your Honor, the 

Respondent's not here 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, 

they're your witnesses? 

MS. BARBER: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, well 

then let me do this. Do you anticipate him 

showing up or do you know? 

MS. BARBER: I have no idea to be 

honest 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: One of 

those cases 

MS. BARBER: Yes, I called him a 

week or two ago to see if he was going to 

respond to my discovery before I did a motion 

to compel. He said he was going to and that 

he would be here so. I haven't heard from him. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Well, let's 

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see how long it takes. What I'll do is if he 

comes in, will you come in and get me. 

Reporter? Okay, you come in and get me if he 

gets here. 

(Off the record.) 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: This is the 

case of the Federal Aviation Administration 

versus Roddy L. Cox, DMS Docket No. 2010-0623. 

Counsel, would you identify yourself for the 

record please? 

MS. BARBER: Your Honor, my name 

is Kate Barber, K-a-t-e B-a-r-b-e-r, and I 

represent the Federal Aviation Administration. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Let the 

record reflect that it is ten minutes of 

10:00. According to the hearing notice, this 

case was set for hearing for February 1, 2 and 

3 to commence at 9:00 o'clock. I don't 

remember the exact date that the hearing 

notice was published but it was in November. 

Give me just a second. Yes, the hearing 

notice would have been published on or about 

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November 3rd of 2010. 

I just got off the phone with my 

office and the office has heard nothing from 

Mr. Cox. 

Ms. Barber, have you heard 

anything from Mr. Cox today? 

MS. BARBER: Not today. Your 

Honor. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: All right, 

well there are no messages in the office in 

Washington, D.C, while they're calling for 

snow today, certainly, I always wonder when I 

hear noises in the hall. Do you want to check 

to see what's going on? Okay, nobody. 

All right, so it is ten minutes of 

10:00. It's 50 minutes after the time 

scheduled to commence the hearing. Ms. 

Barber, you indicated to me that you currently 

have three witnesses here? 

MS. BARBER: Two witnesses. Your 

Honor. 

ADMIN, JUDGE GOODWIN: Two 

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witnesses are here. The Court's ready to 

proceed. 

What's your pleasure, Ms. Barber? 

MS. BARBER: Your Honor, we wish 

to proceed, 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Pardon me? 

MS. BARBER: We wish to proceed. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: All right, 

and what do you want to do? 

MS. BARBER: We can call our first 

witness. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

MS. BARBER: The FAA calls Miss 

Jennifer Ruiz. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: I always 

have to look around to figure out where you're 

going to put the witnesses. 

Take a seat. Stand and raise your 

right hand. 

JENNIFER RUIZ, 

called as a witness herein, having been first 

duly sworn, was examined and testified as 

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follows: 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: State your 

name for the record and spell your first and 

last name. 

THE WITNESS: Jennifer Ruiz, J-en-n-i-f-e-r R-u-i-z. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: R-u-i-d? 

THE WITNESS: i-z. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

THE WITNESS: Zebra. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And Ms 

Barber, one of the admonitions I make to both 

sides is during the course of the hearing, I 

don't want any personal information from 

either side in the record. So when witnesses 

testify, they should give their business 

address, business phone numbers. If you've 

got any documents that show personal 

identifying information, for instance, dates 

of birth, home addresses, home phone numbers 

and this is for both sides, I'd ask you to 

redact it. And I always bring a permanent 

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black magic marker. 

MS. BARBER: Okay. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: As you're 

well aware but the witnesses may not be aware, 

everything that we do is ultimately published 

on the internet. And in today's age, I just 

don't feel comfortable putting all this and 

that includes the transcript and everything 

else. Witness would you --

DIRECT EXAMINATION: 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q Ms. Ruiz, where are you currently 

employed? 

A At AirTran Airways. 

Q And how long have you worked 

there? 

A Six years. 

Q And what are your duties there? 

A I'm a flight attendant there and 

our duties is to insure that the aircraft is 

prepared for flight. We check the security of 

the aircraft and we check our emergency 

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were doing our first service when we stopped 

by, as we were walking up, I stopped by Row 17 

or we were walking past 17, and Mr. Cox tapped 

my bottom and said can I have a coke? And I 

said, yes, just don't touch my butt next time. 

And we stopped two rows up at Row 15, he was 

in Row 17. And when I went back I said, now 

what would you like? He said, I don't want 

anything you have. You're an idiot. You're 

a fuckin' idiot. 

Q And then what happened after he 

said that? Well, what was his demeanor when 

he said that to you and used that expletive? 

A He was abrasive and very agitated. 

Q And then what did you say? 

A I only said one word. I said sir, 

and before I could finish my statement, he 

started saying other obscenities at which I 

could not remember because I became frightened 

and my hearing went kind of, I don't remember 

what he said, but I know he was going on and 

on and calling me an idiot and saying, you 

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don't know the difference between your side 

and your ass. 

Q Was there another flight attendant 

there during this occurrence? 

A Yes, we have two flight attendants 

on the cart. We work each side of the cart. 

I was on the back end of the cart where Mr. 

Cox was right behind me. And the, I asked the 

other flight attendant named Eric McCulley, I 

said, did you hear this? And he said, yes. 

Well, he's listening to everything. 

Q So where was Mr. Cox sitting, what 

row was that? 

A 17C. 

Q And then where was the cart 

positioned? 

A 15. 

Q And then where were you? 

A I was in between 15 and 17 so I 

was in close proximity to him. 

Q Were you in between the cart and 

Mr. Cox? 

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A 

Q 

A 

Yes 

And where was Mr. McCulley? 

He's at Row 14 Yes, because 

it's, well, we park in between rows so if I'm 

at 15, 14, so he's at 

13, or 12 

the cart? 

And was he on the other side of 

A Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Would you 

spell Mr. McCulley's name, please? 

THE WITNESS: E-r-i-c M-c --

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Start over 

again. 

THE WITNESS: E-r-i-c --

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: C-r-i-c. 

THE WITNESS: No, E-r. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Oh, I'm 

sorry, all right. 

THE WITNESS: M-c-c-u-1-l-e-y. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And what 

typ e of aircraf t wer e you on? 

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THE WITNESS: We were on the 

Boeing 737, 700 Series. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q And then as you were standing 

there, did Mr. Cox go on? 

A Yes, he did. 

Q Now, I want you to verbatim say 

what he said. I know it's uncomfortable in 

the Court of law to say cuss words, but I 

think it's important to know exactly what he 

did say. So pardon her French, Your Honor, 

but then what did he say? 

A Okay, he continued saying you're 

an idiot. You're a fuckin' idiot. You don't 

know the difference between your side and your 

ass. And then he continued on which I do not 

remember and then he got up and shouted, the 

reason why you don't know the difference is 

because your ass is so fuckin' big. 

Q And then what did he do? 

A He stormed off to the back as he 

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was saying other obscenities. 

Q What did the passengers around the 

area, what did they look like? 

A They were stunned and startled. 

Q Did any of them say anything to 

you? 

A Yes, about when they were going to 

the restroom because I went, we ended service 

there immediately and we were no longer able 

to continue any of our duties. We went up and 

some of the passengers, you know, came up and 

tried to console me and they're like I can't 

believe that he said all that. If you need 

us, you know, just let us know. 

Q How did this violent reaction make 

you feel? 

A Intimidated. 

Q And then what did you do right 

after this occurred? 

A We just parked, we just put the, 

we went up to the front immediately and I 

called the Captain and I let him know that 

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there was a situation in the back because 

that's what we're required to do. We're 

constantly being aware of smells and 

situations and anything that's out of the 

ordinary, we are supposed to inform the 

Captain. 

So I informed the Captain and I 

let him know that there is a passenger who is 

being threatening and he's screaming 

obscenities in front of all the passengers and 

he said okay. So he just told us that to hang 

on, he was going to call, I think, SOC or 

somebody too. 

And so I just let him know and I 

stayed up front. After that, I didn't go back 

to the cabin. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: What was 

your position on the aircraft? Were you the 

A, B or C attendant? 

THE WITNESS was the 

attendant which means I was working in the 

back, 

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ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

THE WITNESS: So, and because I'm 

working in the back, I'm the one who is 

constantly in the cabin. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

THE WITNESS: And at this point, I 

changed positions. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: With? 

THE WITNESS: With Eric McCulley. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And what 

was his position? 

THE WITNESS : He was the B 

position and he was up front and so I didn't 

want to do anymore duties so the other flight 

attendants --

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So the C 

attendant generally works on 737, works the 

back end of the aircraft? 

THE WITNESS: Um-hm, 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And in 

conjunction with the B attendant, does the 

service in the, whatever they're calling it 

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now, coach, economy? 

THE WITNESS: Main cabin, 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Main cabin, 

A attendant generally works forward in first 

class? 

THE WITNESS: Um-hum, um-hum. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And your 

configuration on the 737, 700 is three and 

three abreast in main cabin? 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Three on 

both sides? 

exit? 

THE WITNESS: Yes 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And Where's 

THE WITNESS: Exit is 18, row 18. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So he is 

just in front of the exit row? 

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: All right. 

THE WITNESS: And another reason, 

he stormed off to the back and he stayed up 

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there. We have, the way our airplane is 

configured, we have a lot of space back there. 

And --

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN; Is the 

galley in the back? 

THE WITNESS: The galley is not in 

the back. We do not have a galley in the 

back. So how it's configured is there's a lot 

of standing room there which FAA requires now 

that nobody be congregated in the front. But 

he was in the back during, he stormed off to 

the back and we don't know this for sure, but 

there was trash everywhere so we didn't see 

him trash it. But we could only assume that 

it was trashed. 

And if he was back there and I 

would be back there by myself, I wasn't 

willing to stand back there by myself for the 

rest of the flight because there are two 

lavatories. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Do you have 

a galley in the aircraft? 

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THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Is it in 

first class? 

THE WITNESS: It is in the 

forward, it's in front of first class, yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, and 

it's up near the two exit doors? 

THE WITNESS: Right. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So, going 

front to rear, you got the exit doors, galley, 

first class, main, no galley in the aft of the 

aircraft, but you have two lavatories back 

there. 

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So where 

the galley would normally be on some aircraft 

is just a large open area? 

THE WITNESS: Absolutely, yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: With two 

exit doors? 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And what 

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you're saying is when he had his discussion 

with you, he stormed off to the rear of the 

aircraft? 

THE WITNESS: Yes 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And the 

problem was at that time you're after the 

cart? 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN, JUDGE GOODWIN: Mr, 

McCulley is forward of the cart? 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So for Mr. 

McCulley to get to the back of the aircraft, 

he's got to figure out some way to get around 

the cart? 

THE WITNESS: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, go 

ahead, Ms. Barber. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q So, during the flight, did you 

switch positions with some of the other flight 

attendants? 

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A Um-hum. 

Q How did that occur? 

A When we got to the front of the 

aircraft, I said, I said I can't go back 

there. I'm not going back there. So we 

stayed up front until we figured out what our 

plan was and we knew that the lead flight 

attendant, she was not directly involved. She 

was on alert because of what happened and her 

duties were multiplied because, at that point, 

I wasn't doing anything else. 

So she went back and did trash and 

Eric went back to the back, because we still 

had to try to monitor our, I mean, to see how 

our other passengers were doing. So he went 

back to the back and Mr. Cox was still 

standing back there. And I felt like he was 

almost waiting or he was waiting for somebody 

to say something to him or, I mean, 

confrontation. 

Q And did he look any certain way 

towards you or the other flight attendants? 

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have responsibilities in the cabin? 

THE WITNESS: Right. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Did you 

switch, what would normally be your 

responsibilities as a C attendant in final? 

THE WITNESS: The B attendant or 

the C? 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: 

THE WITNESS: The C, during 

arrival check or just throughout the flight? 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Arrival 

check. 

THE WITNESS: Arrival check, we 

would take trash and we would make sure that 

all the passengers were in compliance before 

landing. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Compliance 

being? 

THE WITNESS: Being bags are 

stowed. The electronic devices are turned 

off. Tray tables are up and seat backs are up 

and that's everything. 

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ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, you 

were not able to do those duties which were 

your responsibility as a C attendance on that 

flight, is that right? 

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, and even 

as a B attendant, I did not do it. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So, you 

weren't able to do your B attendant duties? 

THE WITNESS: No. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Now, the B 

attendant duties would be the same duties just 

in a different part of the aircraft? 

THE WITNESS: Right, I did not 

want to walk down the aisle. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN Whose 

responsibility is it to monitor the exit row, 

the B or the C attendant? 

THE WITNESS: The C. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q Why were you unable to perform 

your duties? 

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A I was afraid of a confrontation 

with Mr. Cox or that he would say something 

else. 

Q And what happened when the plane 

landed? 

A Everybody was told to remain 

seated. They opened the door and the 

Milwaukee Police were there and they asked me 

what happened and I gave them my written 

statement. And they said, do you want to get 

off the aircraft before we remove him and I 

said yes, I don't want to be in any view. I 

don't want him to see me or I don't want to be 

in his view. 

Q Who called the authorities? 

A The Captain. 

Q Did you have an opportunity to 

make a written statement? 

A Yes. 

Q And when did you make this written 

statement in regards to this incident? 

A I made it prior to landing as I 

(202) 234-4433 

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was in the front. The Captain wanted me to 

write down everything and get his seat number 

and everything that happened so I could pass 

it on to the authorities. 

MS. BARBER: And may I approach, 

Your Honor? 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q I'm showing you what's been 

previously marked as Exhibit C-1? 

(Whereupon, Complainant's Exhibit 

No. 1 was marked for 

identification.) 

A Um-hUm. 

Q Do you recognize this document? 

A Yes. 

Q What is it? 

A It is my written statement that I 

gave to the Milwaukee Police. 

Q And is that a fair and accurate 

depiction of the statement that you made on 

July 26th of 2009? 

(202) 234-4433 

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MS. BARBER: I'd ask that move it 

into evidence. Your Honor. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Hearing no 

objection. Complainant's 1 for identification 

is received in evidence as Complainant's 1. 

Do you want to pass the original up to the 

Court? 

(Whereupon, Complainant's Exhibit 

No. 1 was received into evidence.) 

MS. BARBER: I'm redacting her 

cell phone number which is on there. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes, okay, 

well I got a big black magic marker so we can 

take care of that. Thanks. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q What did you do after you gave 

your written statement? 

A I went, they walked me all the way 

up to the terminal and I stayed out of sight 

until Mr. Cox was removed and in the car and 

being driven away before I was allowed to get 

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back onto the aircraft. 

Q How did this incident affect you? 

A It affected me mentally. I was 

out of work for a month after. I had to take 

a medical leave. I didn't do any three day 

trips for a year after that. 

Q Why were you unable to do any 

three day trips? 

A I was uncomfort, because usually 

our three day trips incorporate a lot of long 

hauls and I was uncomfortable with going 

anything longer than an hour and a half or 

something that was, anything that wasn't 

quick, I wasn't comfortable with doing. 

Q Why were you uncomfortable? 

A I felt that on long flights that 

the chances of having some type of 

confrontation increases and I just didn't want 

to be on the airplane that long anymore. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: But you 

said you were, let's go back. After the 

incident, you said you were off work? 

(202) 234-4433 

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THE WITNESS: Um-hUm. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Were you 

completely off work for some period of time? 

THE WITNESS: I don't understand, 

what do you mean? 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Well, did 

you not work at all for a period of time? 

THE WITNESS: Yes, for exactly one 

month. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, and 

then after a month, you did what? 

THE WITNESS: I did, there's these 

things that we call stand-ups and it's 

basically the least amount of time you can be 

at work legally --

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

THE WITNESS: --as far as hours 

goes and you work the last flight out which is 

typically the lightest flight. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

THE WITNESS: And then you work 

the first flight in which is typically the 

(202) 234-4433 

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lightest flight as well and it's only two 

legs. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Where are 

you home based? 

THE WITNESS: Atlanta. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: So you were 

making a leg out and a leg back? 

THE WITNESS: Um-hUm. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: And you did 

that for how long? 

THE WITNESS: A year, for few 

more, ten months. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, and 

then you returned to full duties? 

THE WITNESS: I was able to return 

to full duties, yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q Was the reason that you had to 

take time off 

becaus e of this incident ? 

A Yes 

(202) 234-4433 

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questions. Your Honor, 

I have no further 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: You're 

excused. I'm going to ask you not to discuss 

your testimony with anybody prior to the 

conclusion of the hearing. You can remain in 

the courtroom if you want. 

THE WITNESS: Thank you. 

(Witness excused.) 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Call your 

next witness. 

MS. BARBER: The Administrator 

calls Mr. Ed Rooney. 

EDWARD J. ROONEY, 

called as a witness herein, having been first 

duly sworn, was examined and testified as 

follows: 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Please be 

seated. State your name for record and spell 

your first and last name. 

THE WITNESS: Edward J. Rooney, Ed-w-a-r-d, Rooney is R-o-o-n-e-y. 

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ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Counsel? 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q Mr. Rooney, where are you 

currently employed? 

A I'm the Assistant Federal Security 

Director for Law Enforcement for the 

Transportation Security Administration here in 

Milwaukee. 

Q And what do you do for TSA? 

A I do a number of things, but I'm 

the law enforcement representative for TSA 

covering the State of Wisconsin. My main law 

enforcement function is liaison with the 

different law enforcement agencies that serve 

at the airports. I'm also a GS1811 criminal 

investigator. I do criminal investigations 

and have, you know, made arrests in cases 

similar to the one before this Court. 

Q And what type of training did you 

receive to come in your position? 

A The prerequisite for the position 

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was to have attended the basic criminal 

investigator training course at the Federal 

Law Enforcement Training Center. I did that 

in connection with my previous career. I'm 

retired from the United States Secret Service. 

And then when I transferred there, came over 

to TSA, then they sent me to an additional two 

week training program more or less to get the 

nuances of the new agency. 

Q Were you working for TSA on July 

26th of 2009? 

A Yes, I was. 

Q And around 1655 hours were you 

notified of an AirTran flight with an unruly 

passenger? 

A Yes 

Q And what happened? 

A Well, I was notified I believe by 

our Coordination Center of an unruly 

passenger. And I believe they, and there was 

a reference to an assault. Most of the time 

when we get these notifications in this 

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manner, we get very cryptic information. We 

don't know, you know, exactly what's going on 

until the plane lands and they open the door 

and we can talk face to face. 

This was a Saturday or it was a 

weekend, I believe, and I responded from my 

residence. While in route to the airport, I 

contacted our Transportation Security 

Operations Center to see if they had any 

updated information. The original 

notification would have come from the pilot to 

their airline corporate. Then they would 

notify our Transportation Security Operations 

Center and from there, they notify our 

Coordination Center, who in turn notified me. 

And they also notify local law enforcement on 

scene at the airport just to give you a little 

background on how the whole notification 

process works. 

At any rate, since I was 

responding from home, by the time I got to the 

airport, the plane was already on the ground 

(202) 234-4433 

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and Mr. Cox was already in custody being 

brought down to the sheriff's substation so, 

and the flight crew had already dispersed. 

So, I didn't even go up to the gate and 

interview anybody at that time. 

Upon my arrival at the sheriff's 

office, one of the deputy's gave me a copy of 

Miss Ruiz's statement which I read through. 

And we had some discussion among the deputies 

and myself as to what we thought the 

appropriate charges would be and then we 

decided we'll go ahead and try to interview 

Mr. Cox. 

Deputy Amy Burmeister read him his 

Miranda Right. Actually, at this time now, 

Mr. Cox is seated in a holding cell and Deputy 

Burmeister opened the cell door and advised 

Mr. Cox of his Miranda Rights. There was 

another deputy there, BI Agent, Nate Way, he's 

the airport liaison agent and myself. We 

basically were standing just inside his cell 

door and Mr. Cox was seated on a bench on the. 

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you know, inside the cell. 

After advising Mr. Cox of his 

rights, I introduced myself and the other 

people present and I explained what our role 

is. I explained to him the potential criminal 

charges that could be levied both by the 

sheriff's department or by the Federal 

government. Also explained to him civil 

penalties that could be levied by either the 

TSA or the FAA. And I asked him if he 

understood all of that and he said he did. 

I asked him if he had been 

drinking because somewhere along the line, I 

recall somebody thought that that might have 

been why he was acting the way he was on the 

aircraft. And he told me he had not had any 

alcoholic beverages either before the flight 

or during the flight. 

I asked him specifically about 

some of the comments that were attributed to 

him by Miss Ruiz in her statement and he 

admitted making those statements. 

(202) 234-4433 

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He said, I asked him if he did 

indeed touch Miss Ruiz on the buttocks and he 

said that he touched her on the hip with his 

glass. I then asked him if he made all the 

various statements that were attributed to him 

and he did admit that. He did admit jumping 

out of his seat and quote getting into her 

face. 

Q Okay, so what was his demeanor 

like when you were interviewing him? 

A His demeanor when I was 

interviewing him was much more calm. He was, 

you know, he was upset but not rowdy or 

anything. He was, you know, there's two 

deputies and two Federal agents standing in 

front of him. He wasn't moving. 

Q So he did admit to actually 

touching her? 

A Yes. 

Q Okay, and he admitted to using al l 

the expletives ? 

A Yes. 

(202) 234-4433 

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Immediately after everything was 

said and done, I called our TSOC back and gave 

them a briefing over the telephone as to what 

transpired, you know, just to update them. 

And then the next morning, TSOC sends back a, 

basically a daily brief that the Administrator 

sees and it contains a synopsis of all the 

incidents that happened over the previous, you 

know, 24, 48 hours depending on whether it's 

a weekend or not. 

The Paris report rather than 

rewriting the whole thing, the synopsis from 

the Administrator's daily brief are copied and 

pasted into the Paris report as for the 

narrative section of the Paris report and then 

attached my statement with the details 

regarding the interview and so forth. 

MS. BARBER: May I approach. Your 

Honor? 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q I'm showing you what's been 

(202) 234-4433 

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interview? 

Okay, what happened after the 

A That was basically the end of the 

interview. Then we again, we convened out in 

the lobby there with the sergeant and the 

other deputies there. And given the nature of 

the offense, we decided that the disorderly 

conduct charge was the way to go rather than 

taking this as a Federal case. It didn't 

appear that egregious to me at the time based 

on the information we had. 

Q And did you fill out any reports? 

A I did. 

Q And what were they? 

A I filled out a, I basically 

created what's called a statement which gets 

attached to a Paris report. It's kind of like 

a paperless reporting system that the TSA 

uses. The initial Paris report gets started 

by somebody in our Coordination Center. And 

I also and that probably was started on the 

same day on the 2 6th of July. 

(202) 234-4433 

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previously marked as Exhibit C-2. Do you 

recognize the document? 

(Whereupon, Complainant's Exhibit 

No. 2 was marked for 

identification.) 

A Yes, this is the Paris report. 

Q I'm not, excuse me, on the second 

page during the narrative information, is that 

the same narrative that you drafted? 

A No, this is basically, the 

narrative information, this was written by 

Jonathan Wright at our TSOC and this is based 

on my telephone debriefing after the incident 

was over with. This is the report that the 

TSOC prepares for the Administrator's daily 

briefing. 

Q You recognize the TSOC, Exhibit C2? 

A Well, Exhibit C-2 is the Paris 

report. 

Q Right. 

A The narrativ e in this Exhibit C-2 

(202) 234-4433 

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was basically copied and pasted from the 

Administrator's daily brief that came out the 

next morning. 

Q And is that a fair and accurate 

depiction of the Paris report? 

A Yes. 

Q That was created in regards to 

this incident? 

A Yes. 

Q The Administrator moves to enter 

in Exhibit C-2, Your Honor. 

ADMI N JUDG E GOODWI N 

Complainant's 2 for identification is received 

into evidence as Complainant's 2. 

(Whereupon, Complainant's Exhibit 

No. 2 was received into evidence.) 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q Did you have an occasion in your 

investigation to write a statement in regards 

to the interview that you did with Roddy Cox 

on July 26th of 2009? 

A Yes, I did. 

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Q Okay, and what was the purpose of 

that statement? 

A Just to record the details of my 

own investigation and involvement in this 

thing because like I said, this Paris 

reporting format, there's limited room for 

putting in a narrative, so to speak. What I 

put in my statement would not have fit in this 

form on-line, but you can upload as much as 

you want and that's what I did. I typed a 

separate statement of my activities in 

Microsoft Word and then uploaded it into the 

Paris report as an attachment. 

And that's reflected on the third 

page of Exhibit C-2 where it says attachment. 

Statement of AFSD L. E. Rooney. 

MS. BARBER: May I approach. Your 

Honor? 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q I'm showing you what's previously 

been marked as Exhibit C-3. Is this the 

(202) 234-4433 

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report? 

(Whereupon, Complainant's Exhibit 

No. 3 was marked for 

identification.) 

A Yes, it is. 

Q And this was drafted by you? 

A Yes. 

Q And in this statement, you 

describe the conversation that you had with 

Mr. Cox? 

A Yes. 

Q And it's also written down there 

in the statement that he did not dispute any 

of the allegations that the flight attendant 

made? 

A That's correct. 

Q Is this a fair and accurate 

depiction of the statement that you drafted? 

A Yes. 

MS. BARBER: The Administrato r 

moves t o ente r i n Exhibi t C-3 . 

(202) 234-4433 

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ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Miss Ruiz, 

does your cell phone number end in 5389? 

MS. RUIZ: Yes. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, I'm 

going to redact the last line of the third 

paragraph. There is a number, three digits, 

three digits and four digits, and I'm going to 

redact that information. 

MS . BARBER: Yes, Your Honor, 

thank you. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Other than 

that. Complainant's 3 for identification is 

received into evidence as Complainant's 3. 

Unless you want that on the internet? 

(Whereupon, Complainant's Exhibit 

No. 3 was received into evidence.) 

MS. RUIZ: No, I did not. Thank 

you 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, I 

always like to accommodate the witness. 

BY MS. BARBER: 

Q Did you do any follow-up in 

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regards to these cases? 

A Not unless they go to Federal 

Court in which case, you know, once the 

sheriff's and 99 percent of the time we try to 

resolve these matters at the lowest level 

possible to, you know, because I cover the 

whole State of Wisconsin. I can't be going 

all over to eight different counties to 

testify and do the different local 

proceedings. So we always try to get things 

resolved at the lowest possible level. 

When the sheriff's department, 

well, actually the lowest possible level in 

this case could have been a county ordinance 

citation for disorderly conduct. We felt it 

was, you know, a little bit worse than that 

and so they booked Mr. Cox on a state charge 

of disorderly conduct based on our 

consultation after we got, you know, done with 

it, witness statement and talking to Mr. Cox. 

Q Were you involved in the 

discussions and what type of charge that he 

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you know, leaving his seat and getting into 

Miss Ruiz's face. And the moral, you know, it 

almost constituted I thought an interference 

with the flight crew, but, you know, it wasn't 

some of the things that Miss Ruiz described 

today in her testimony was not known to us at 

the time. You know, how seriously it affected 

her ability to perform her duties. 

Q And are you talking about 

interference with the flight crew as a Federal 

criminal charge? 

A 

questions 

Correct 

MS. BARBER Okay, no further 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Any further 

witnesses? You can step down. 

(Witness excused.) 

MS. BARBER: No, Your Honor. The 

Administrator has no further witnesses at this 

time. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay, let's 

take just a couple minutes until, it's only 

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should be booked on? 

A Yes 

Q What were the reasons that he was 

booked on the state charge of disorderly 

conduct? 

A We just felt that his action was a 

little more egregious than would justify the 

county ordinance citation. And another thing 

too is, if you're a Wisconsin resident and 

you're charged with a county ordinance 

citation, you're basically just issued the 

ticket and released. We were, you know, a 

little more punitive by, you know, by booking 

him on a state charge. He had to spend a 

night in the county jail to think about it 

before he could be released. 

Q Are you familiar with what the 

statute entails for disorderly conduct or what 

actions did he take that merited him getting 

charged with disorderly conduct? 

A It was basically his loud and 

boisterous behavior and getting up into the, 

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boarding the aircraft and being operated under 

the appropriate regulations. 

Under Title 49 of the U. S. code, 

Mr. Cox would be subjected to a potential fine 

of up to $11,000. The Administrator has asked 

for a fine of $1100. It's obviously up to the 

discretion of the agency as that how much the 

agency wants to seek as a civil penalty. And 

the request here is consistent with prayers 

for relief in the past. 

However, if you read my decisions. 

Miss Ruiz, you'll find that this Court takes 

these instances extremely seriously and in the 

past I have subjected Respondent's to 

substantially greater fines than are sought 

after here. 

I'm certainly going to grant the 

Request for Relief with a civil penalty in the 

amount of $1100. And I'll put it in a written 

decision and I'll put it on the record here 

that given the facts and allegations set forth 

in the hearing here today, had the Agency 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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about 26 after the hour, let's take about four 

minutes now. Then the Court will be back. 

(Off the record.) 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Any further 

witnesses? 

MS. BARBER: No, Your Honor 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Any further 

testimony? 

MS. BARBER: No, Your Honor. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: It's 10:30 

on the day set for hearing and the 

Respondent's still not appeared. Because we 

took testimony, I'll do a written decision 

which will follow. 

Miss Ruiz, the Court takes these 

incidences very seriously with review. The 

cases that I have published, found that the 

Respondent's charged with Section 121580 of 

the Federal Aviation Regulations stating that 

no person may assault, trip and intimidate or 

interfere with a crew member in the 

performance of the crew member's duties, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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decision which was DMS20050530, where a very 

nice lady got up out of her seat, followed a 

flight attendant and touched her. And one of 

the first cases I did was Selznick, but that 

won't do any good, I sealed the record. 

But take a look at Conger, I think 

it's sufficient to just reiterate this is 

extremely serious. I, for one, feel, the 

Court feels that the duties that you perform. 

Miss Ruiz, are extremely important and an 

integral part of keeping aviation safe and in 

today's world are even more important than I 

think most people realize. They're not 

trifling. You're not a waitress. You're not 

a servant. You perform an extremely important 

and valuable job that allows us all to travel 

safely both in and out of the United States. 

Anything else? 

MS. BARBER: Your Honor, the FAA 

would be amenable to a higher fine if that's 

appropriate 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Well, but 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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requested a greater fine, I very likely would 

have granted the request. But again, that's 

prosecutorial discretion. I've done 

prosecution. I've done defense. I'm not 

trying to critique or admonish or anything 

else. It's up to the Agency what they want to 

seek. But had you sought more, I can assure 

you that we would have given it a very serious 

consideration. 

Miss Ruiz, you don't have to put 

up with this sort of conduct. As my favorite 

description and I wish I could remember who 

the witness was described your duty as hurling 

through space at 500 miles an hour in a metal 

tube. You don't need this sort of 

distraction. I appreciate you taking the time 

to come here. I hope you get home. I'm sure 

Ms. Barber's going to make a mad dash for the 

car and try to get out. 

I will issue a written opinion 

forthwith and I will state in that opinion and 

I invite your attention to the counter 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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Federal Aviation Administration, all take 

these instances very seriously. If they 

didn't, you wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be 

here. And I think you should tell your 

colleagues that and you should also tell your 

colleagues, they don't have to put up with 

that kind of behavior. 

It's amazing the number of people 

I talk to don't realize that what we are going 

through today can occur and although nobody at 

-- well, people do do up there. And I can 

assure you that if Mr. Rooney and his 

colleagues or Ms. Barber and their colleagues 

learn of instances like this, they will deal 

with them. They won't always get to me. 

But this is serious. This 

behavior shouldn't be condoned anyplace, let 

alone in a metal tube at 35,000 feet flying 

through space. 

So again, I thank you for coming 

in and taking your time to be here in 

beautiful downtown Milwaukee. And if there's 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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then it's, then you get into notice. The fine 

you've requested is consistent with a lot of 

other prayers. I'd just say, and it's dicta, 

you don't have to worry about that word. Miss 

Ruiz. I mean, just as dicta that, I mean, if 

you look at, I'm trying to remember some of 

the other cases I did. There was Conger. 

There have been a couple. 

MS. BARBER: I'll look them up on 

the snow day tomorrow. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 

MS. BARBER: It'll give me some 

light reading. 

ADMIN. JUDGE GOODWIN: Well, see, 

I'm going to be 6 9 next week. So I can 

legitimately say that I have mental block. I 

like to tell my children my brain's full, I 

don't have any room for additional 

information. 

You know. Miss Ruiz, the fact that 

you were here indicates that the 

Transportation Safety Administration, the 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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202-234-443 3 

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nothing further, Ms. Barber, I'm going to go 

off the record. 

MS. BARBER: Nothing. 

(Whereupon, the hearing adjourned 

at 10 :38 a.m.) 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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CERTIFICAT E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Roddy Cox 

Before: FAA 

Date: 02-01-11 

Place: Milwaukee, WI 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

Court Reporter 

(202)234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 •mmiiwlii^foss.com