UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: WINGS AIR, LLC. Respondent
Tuesday, March 18, 2014 FDMS No. FAA-2013-0849

The conference call took place via telephone, pursuant to notice, at 1:30 p.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge 

# RECEIVED APR -2 2014 

### HEARING DOCKET

NEAL R. GROSS 1

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### APPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: ZACHARY M. BERMAN, ESQ. of: Office of the Regional Counsel Eastern Region Federal Aviation Administration 1 Aviation Plaza Jamaica, New York 11434 (718) 553-3258 (718) 995-5699 

### (fax) On Behalf of the Respondent: JARED M. ALLEN, ESQ. GREG WINTON, ESQ. of: The Aviation Law Firm One Research Court, Suite 450 

### Rockville, MD 20850 (301) 294-8550 (301) 294-2525 

### (fax) Also Present: CODY L. SMITH, DOT Staff Attorney

NEALR. GROSS 2

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com3

1 

### P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 1:32 p.m. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We're on 4 the record in the matter of Wings Air, LLC. 5 

### This is Docket Number FAA-2013-0849. Today is 6 

### Tuesday, March 18, 2014. And the parties have 7

-- 

### are appearing by telephone for a Rule 16 8 

### litigation scheduling conference. 9 

### The Federal Aviation 10 

### Administration which I' 11 

### hereinafter 11 

### abbreviate by its initials the FAA, is 12 representedby its attorneyof record, Zachary 13 M. Berman. 14 The Respondent Wings Air, LLC is 15 represented by its attorney of record, Jared 16 

### M. Allen. Also present with Mr. Allen is a 17 Mr. Gregory Winton who is going to be 18 appearing as co-counsel in behalf of the 19 

### Respondent. 20 

### Good afternoon to you all. I'll 21 simply note a couple of different things 22 before we get into the bones of the Rule 16

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE

.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com4 

### 1 conference. 2 It appears that there was a 3 

### complaint filed by the FAA in this matter on 4 

### or about December 24, 2013. The matter was 5 

### referred to the Office of Hearings for 6 

### litigation on January 6, 2014, with a Notice 7 

### of Assignment of Proceeding was filed, 8 

### assigning the case to me. 9 

### On January 9, 

### 2014, the FAA filed 10 

### its first set of Interrogatories, Request for 11 

### Production and Request for Admission. On 12 January 30, 2014, an Order setting Rule 16 13 litigation schedulingconferenceand directing 14 Rule 26(f) planning and submissionwas filed. 15 And then I have on February 10, 16 2014, a procedural

-- a proposed procedural 17 schedule filed by the parties. I need to just 18 do a couple of preliminaryquestions. And as 19 

### always, I'll start with the FAA first. And 20 then turn to the Respondent second. 21 Mr. Berman, have you received an 22 Answer yet from the Responding party?

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com5

1 

### MR. BERMAN: To the discovery 2 requests? 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: No. Have you 4 received an Answer to the complaint? 5 

### MR. BERMAN: Yes. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. When did 7 

### you receive that? Do you have that at 8 before you? 9 

### MR. BERMAN: When did

-- I'd have 10 

### to go through the records here
. I know that 11 

### they sent it by I think they've been 12 sending everythingby email and also by first 13 class mail. 14 

### Yes, it was mailed on January 3, 15 2014, and received by our office in the mail 16 on January 6, 2014. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 18 

### My next question to is going to be 19 addressed to you Mr. Allen. Would you be so 20 kind as to send the Court a copy of your 21 answer. 22 MR. ALLEN: Yes Judge, we will

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com6

1 serve the Court a copy of our Answer. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And when 3 do you think you'll be able to do that? 4 MR. ALLEN: We can do that today 5 Judge. I do show that one was sent to the 6 Hearing Docket Clerk. Is there a particular 7 address you would like this one sent to? 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. The 9 Hearing Docket Clerk basically is the Hearing 10 Docket Clerk for the FAA. So they don't 11 forward any materials that you send to them to 12 this office. You have to individually serve 13 me. And I don't get it until you file it with 14 me. So

-- 15 MR. ALLEN: We'll get that to you 16 today then Judge. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you look at 18 the service list that's attached to my Rule 16 19 Order, you'll see my name, my address, my 20 telephone number and the fax number. And the 21 telephonenumberprobablyneeds to be updated. 22 I'll update that. The general telephonenumber

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com7 

### 1 to the office is now 2142, the last three 2 numbers. And I'll update that. 3 So essentially when you serve Mr. 4 Berman and you serve a copy to the Hearing 5 Docket Clerk, you also need to serve me with 6 

### a copy directly to my office. And service 7 shouldbe by U.S. mail and it should also come 8 by fax. 9 And the reason that is because we 10 now have all of our mail irradiated. So there 11 can be a delay of up to three weeks before we 12 receive something that you put in the post 13 office box. So people also fax us a copy so 14 that you can make your due dates as directed 15 by the Court. 16 So if you could service a copy of 17 your answer by the close of business today by 18 fax, my fax number is 202-366-7536. 19 

### MR. ALLEN: Okay Judge, I will fax 20 that to you today. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you 22 so much. Now let's chat a little bit about

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com8

1 the proposed procedural schedule. And Mr. 2 Berman I'm going to start with you. 3 And I'm going to start on page 4 three which has the proposed hearing date of 5 November 4 to 6, 2014 in New York, New York. 6 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: According to my 8 calendar and maybe you can advise me of 9 something that you know and I don't, you and 10 I are already scheduledto appear in New York, 11 New York for another trial on November 4th 12 and sth. 13 MR. BERMAN: Right. I believe 14 there was a mix up because I may have prepared 15 this before

-- if I submittedthat before that 16 hearing was set. But if that's the case, then 17 obviously we can't have this hearing on 18 November

-- the Wings Air hearing on November 19 4"h. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well I thought 21 perhaps you had a -- you had a way of trying 22 cases concurrent.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9 

### 1 MR. BERMAN: No, no. 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: If that's not the 3 case, we need to talk about a different 4 

### hearing date. 5 

### MR. BERMAN: Right. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: That probably 7 

### will change some of the dates that the parties 8 

### have proposed. So I'm going to start with you 9 

### Mr. Berman and then I'll turn to the 10 Respondents for some suggestions as well. 11 But as I looked at my calendar and 12 what I have set right now, I'm going to go to 13 

### that. I think I could try the case in the 14 early part of December if the parties were 15 

### willing. If that doesn't work, then we're 16 looking at setting it in 2015, early 2015. 17 

### So I wanted to start with your 18 calendar Mr. Berman. Do you have some early 19 December 2014 dates that would work for you? 20 

### MR. BERMAN: My schedules open in 21 December

-- in early December. 22 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay
. Mr
. Allen,

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWoN.nealrgross.com

### 10

1 

### I'll turn to you. Would the week of December 2 gth through the 12th be a potentially good 3 

### alternate time period for a trial? 4 

### MR. ALLEN: That would work for us 5 

### Judge. However we would prefer January if 6 

### possible. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well January's 8 

### not available at all. So when I say early 9 

### 2015, I'm talking about probably the later 10 part of February 2015. 11 

### MR. ALLEN: That's fine, I have 12 

### objection to that either Your Honor. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman do you 14 

### have any objection to moving this into the 15 

### later part of February 2015? 16 

### MR. BERMAN: No, no. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 18 

### look at that period and then we can backtrack 19 

### and see if you want to keep to the same 20 

### schedule or use a little bit more time. So 21 

### let me go to February. 22 Starting with your Mr. Berman,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com11 

### 1 would the week of February 23, 2015 

### be 2 acceptable? 3 

### MR. BERMAN: Yes. I don't know 4 

### when President's Day is, but other than that, 5 we're

-- my schedule is open. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I can tell you 7 

### that President'sDay in the year 2015 

### falls on 8 

### the previous Monday, February 16, 2015. 9 

### MR. BERMAN: Thank you. Yes, I'm 10 we're available on the week of the February 11 23, 2015. 12 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen 13 is that acceptable you? 14 

### MR. ALLEN: Yes that's acceptable 15 Judge. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. It looks 17 like you had asked

-- the two of you had 18 agreed to a three day hearing, Mr. Berman is 19 that correct? Or are you looking at something 20 other than that? 21 

### MR. BERMAN: Well I don't think it 22 should be any more than three days. Probably

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE

.. N.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 12

1 

### two days is more like it. Because I don't 2 think there are that many facts in dispute. 3 But there shouldbe

-- that my guess shouldbe 4 at most three days. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, is 6 that your understanding as well? 7 

### MR. ALLEN: Yes Judge. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then let's 9 

### plan on**utili~ing** 

### Monday May I'm sorry, 10 Monday, February 23, 2015 as a travel day. 11 We'll use February24, 2015, February25, 2015 12 and February 26, 2015 as the trial dates with 13 a return travel day of February 27, 2015. 14 That having been said, it looks 15 like if the parties are interested, we can 16 either keep to the original pre-hearing 17 schedule, or we can stretch some of the dates 18 out. Mr. Berman, what's your preference? 19 

### MR. BERMAN: In light of the fact 2

### o that the hearing will be scheduled later, I'd 21 prefer to stretchout the dates a little more. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Allen,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com13 

### 1 how about you? 2 MR. ALLEN: That would be fine 3 

### Judge. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well then 5 

### I'm going to backtrack a little bit as we do 6 

### this and start with your October 15, 2014 7 

### written stipulation proposal as well as your 8 

### October 1, 2014 exchange of witness lists. So 9 

### we'll take a look here. 10 Why don't we set
-- why don't we 11 

### set February 6, 

### 2015 for the written 12 stipulations and/or motions in limine. And 13 then, excuse me -- have the parties exchange 14 a witness lists and exhibits by January 16, 15 2015. Mr. Berman would that work for you for 16 those two deadlines? 17 

### MR. BERMAN: That would be fine. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Allen is 19 that acceptable? 20 MR. ALLEN: Yes Judge. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me 22 just make some notes. Okay. Then let's talk

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com14 1 about filing dispositive motions and setting 2 up that time period. And why don't we do 3 this. We' 11 set a telephone conference first. 4 Mr. Allen just so that you know, I 5 always schedule a telephone conference to 6 follow the filing of any dispositive motions. 7 That way if there are any kinds of Motions for 8 Summary Judgment or to limit the issue that's 9 in dispute, I can have the parties available 10 to answer questions. 11 If there are no motions filed, or 12 motions that don't require a lot of oral 13 argument or any oral argument, then I' 11 14 convert that conference to a pre-hearing 15 status conference and just check in with the 16 parties on whether or not they're actually 17 going to be proceeding to trial. 18 So with a January 15, 2015 19 exchange of witness exhibits, I want to give 20 myself enough time to hear oral arguments and 21 issue a meaningful decision if in fact there's 22 a summary judgment motion for me. So let me

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com15 

### 1 take a look at this. 2 

### Looking for all the different 3 

### holidays. Mr. Berman, starting with you, do 4 

### you have any blackout times for the week of 5 

### November 16"h through the 22'd, 2014? 6 

### MR. BERMAN: My schedule is open 7 

### that week. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Allen, 9 

### how about you? 10 MR. ALLEN: My schedule is open as 11 

### well Judge. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't 13 we set the telephone conference for November 14 18, 2014. Mr. Berman do you have a preference 15 

### for morning or afternoon? 16 

### MR. BERMAN: Either is fine. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen, how 18 about you? 19 

### MR. ALLEN: We prefer the 20 afternoon. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't 22 we say 1:30 to 3:00p.m. then on November 18,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 16 1 2014. With that, then I'm going to backtrack 2 a bit more. Let's put October 28, 2014 for 3 the deadline for filing any reply to summary 4 

### judgment response and October well 5 actually let me just

-- well, yes that sounds 6 right. 7 Let's say October 17 for filing a 8 reply then how about September 26, 2014 for 9 filing a dispositive motion. Mr. Berman does 10 that look like an adequate amount of time to 11 either file or respond to a motion? 12 MR. BERMAN: Yes it does. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Allen, 14 how about for you? 15 

### MR. ALLEN: Yes Judge. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then why 17 don't we set-- what's next? The deadline for 18 completing general discovery a little past 19 your original due date. You had indicatedMay 20 

### 21, 2014 with a June 7 June 12, 2014 21 deadline for supplemental material. And I'm 22 redoing my litigation order at this current

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 17 1 time. 2 What I'm going to do is set a 3 deadline for completing general discovery. 4 And then basically direct the parties to 5 supplementpursuant to the Regulations as soon 6 as possible once information is known. 7 So the general discovery would be 8 extendedpast May 21, 2014, past the proposed 9 June 12, 2014 deadline for taking supplemental 10 depositions. And we could make it a date in 11 August I think. We could make it say either 12 August sth 

### or 15'h. 

### Mr. Berman do you have a 13 preference? 14 

### MR. BERMAN: Either one would be 15 fine. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Allen how 17 about you? 18 

### MR. ALLEN: No preference Judge. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't 20 we just say August 15, 2014 for completing 21 general discovery. That will give you all a 22 little bit of time to enjoy the Labor Day

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com18

1 holiday and still have approximatelyone month 2 to decide based on the discovery that's 3 completed, whether or not you have enough to 4 pursue motions for dispositive relief. 5 Let's talk about during the period 6 of discovery. Discoveryis ongoing obviously. 7 And I like to ask the parties to exchange 8 initial disclosures that are commonly 9 described in Rule 26A(1) (a). And those are 10 basic disclosures that most people do without 11 even thinking about it. But I like to include 12 that in my order nonetheless. 13 You had indicated an April1, 2014 14 deadline to begin discovery. And it looks 15 like you've already initiated some which is 16 fine. Mr. Berman it's now March 18, 2014. 17 Two weeks from now is April 1, 2014. Would 18 you be able to meet an April 1, 2014 deadline 19 for just, voluntarily just providing 20 disclosures? 21 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Allen,

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 19 1 how about you? 2 MR. ALLEN: Yes Judge. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then what 4 I'll do is I'll set April 1, 2014 for the 5 deadline for initial disclosures. And I'll 6 simply note that on or before April 1, 2014, 7 general discovery should begin. 8 And I do that in part because I 9 have a number of people who appear before me 10 who are not as familiar as the two of you 11 might be with discovery exchange. And they 12 have waited until discovery is closed before 13 

### they begin to exchange discovery. And so I 14 want to make sure everybody's on the same 15 

### page. Discovery begins no later than two 16 weeks from today. 17 Let's talk then about an interim 18 date in that period of time in discovery. I 19 do want to the parties to specifically 20 disclose if they are retaining or hiring an 21 expert. Or if they have an expert witness on 22 staff that they're planning to use.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 20 1 That's different from having the 2 cadre of people that work in your office that 3 occasionally have expertise that you draw 4 upon. But I am interested in setting a date 5 for the parties to disclose if they're going 6 to be using a special expert. 7 

### If discovery starts on April 1,
s 2014 and concludes no later than August 15, 9 2014, it would seem reasonable to me to 10 disclose a special expert if the parties are 11 planning to use one, on or before June 30, 12 2014. Mr. Berman is that an acceptable date, 13 or do you prefer a different date? 14 

### MR. BERMAN: That would be fine. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Allen? 16 

### MR. ALLEN: That's acceptable to 17 us Judge. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then with 19 that, let me ask you about the proposed 20 specific location for the hearing. You had 21 indicatedNew York, New York. I have had some 22 good success in finding a Federal District

NEAL

### R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 21 1 Courthouse in Islip, New York. That doesn't 2 mean that I wouldbe precludedfrom looking in 3 downtown New York City. But I want to see if 4 the parties would be willing to allow me the 5 option. Because we do sometimes have trouble 6 finding courthouse days. 7 Mr. Berman, starting with you, is 8 there any -- would you have any objection to 9 allowing the Court the flexibility if you 10 will, of looking in both the downtownNew York 11 area as well as in the Long Island area? 12 MR. BERMAN: No, either location 13 would be fine. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. 15 Allen, how about you? 16 

### MR. ALLEN: For the Respondent, 17 

### Islip is a bit too far for us. We would 18 suggest the White Plains U.S. District Court 19 as a possibility. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And where is 21 that? 22 MR. WINTON: Westchester County,

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com22 

### 1 White Plains is the name of the city. And 2 

### Judge this is Greg Winton. I personally 3 appeared there before. 4 

### The hallways were always empty. 5 It's a wonderful court facility. It's never 6 

### crowded. Just like Islip is, but its much 7 

### closer to where my client is. And it's 8 located north of New York City. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. 10 Winton, just so that you know, typically only 11 one counsel appears and speaks at any given 12 time. So if you are going to be the speaker 13 in the future, you should be the one speaking 14 throughout the conference. 15 If you are not going to be the one 16 speaking, then I will ask you to consult 17 privatelywith Mr. Allen who currently is the 18 attorney of record. 19 

### MR. WINTON: We'll do so. Sorry 20 Your Honor. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you 22 

### so much. Mr. Allen, let me dovetail onto

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com23 1 that. Mr.

-- your colleague Mr. Winton has 2 made a recommendation for a White Plains, New 3 York facility. Do you know anything more 4 about that other than what Mr. Winton has said 5 already? 6 MR. ALLEN: I do not Your Honor, 7 other than that our client would prefer that 8 location. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman 10 are you familiar with the White Plains, New 11 York area? 12 MR. BERMAN: I have a general 13 knowledge as to where it is. I would have no 14 objection to having the hearing in White 15 Plains. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Part of

-- 17 part of my consideration is how easy or how 18 difficult it is to travel to a location. So 19 Mr. Allen do you know whether there are 20 airport facilities in White Plains, New York. 21 MR. ALLEN: I do not Your Honor. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I' 11

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE

.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com24 

### 1 simply take that under advisement and I will 2 have my staff check into it. If 

### it is 3 

### possible to have it in White Plains, New York, 4 

### and we can get a courthouse there, I'm happy 5 

### to do that. 6 

### If there are no easy ways to get 7 

### to White Plains by plane or Amtrak for example 8 

### from D.C., then I'll default to the next 9 

### available location, which would be either 10 

### downtown New York or central Islip. 11 

### So and I will be providing 12 

### notice of where we find a courthouse space 13 probablyaround December 2014. 

### So it won't be 14 

### done immediately. Part of that is because 15 it's very time consuming for the staff to do. 16 And often times when we contact the federal 17 courthouses, they're not willing to schedule 18 that far in advance because they don't know 19 what their own schedules are. 20 

### So we usually are able to confirm 21 

### and get courtroom space about two months ahead 22 of this hearing. And so if this case doesn't

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

### 25 1 settle for example, that's when you're going 2 to be receiving a firm notice of where we're 3 going to be. 4 

### But I will start with White 5 

### Plains, New York. If that doesn't work out 6 for any reason, I'll move into either downtown 7 New York or Islip. 8 

### Mr. Berman, turning back to you. 9 Is there anything else that we need to address 10 or set up for your client today? 11 MR. BERMAN: No Judge. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Allen, 13 on behalf of your client, anything we need to 14 set up or take care of? 15 

### MR. ALLEN: Nothing further Judge. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I 17 

### will thank you both very much or excuse me, 18 thank you all very much for your time and your 19 

### presence today. It appears our business is 20 complete. 21 I'll be sending out a litigation 22 procedure order either today or tomorrow that

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com26 1 codifies all the dates that we've talked about 2 and agreed to. With that, I'll wish you very 3 good luck in your discovery exchange and your 4 settlement discussions. I'll look forward to 5 talking to you, gosh it's going to be some 6 time from now. Let me see my calendar date. 7 November 18, 2014 at 1:30 to 3:00 p.m. for 8 either pre-hearing status conference or a 9 dispositive motion conference. 10 If you need other assistance prior 11 to that time, the litigation procedure order 12 will give you instructions on how to contact 13 my office to schedule any other kind of 14 conference on my calendar. It will also give 15 you the name and phone number of the attorney 16 on my staff who works on the

-- who will be 17 working on this case. And his name is Mr. 18 Smith. And he can help either party with any 19 kind of procedural questions that you might 20 have between now and November 2014. 21 With that we can go off the record 22 and I wish you all a good day. Thank you so

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com27 

### 1 much. 2 

### MR. BERMAN: Thank you. 3 

### MR. ALLEN: Thank you. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: All right, bye, 5 bye. 6 

### (Whereupon, the above-entitled 7 proceeding was concluded at 2:00p.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comA abbreviate3:11 able6:3 18:18

24:20 above-entitled27:6 acceptable11:2,13

11:14 13:1920:12 20:16 address6:7,19 25:9 addressed5:19 adequate 16:10 Administration2:5

3:10 Administrative 1:19 Admission4:11 advance24:18 advise8:8 advisement24:1 afternoon3:20

15:15,20 agreed 11:18 26:2 ahead24:21 Air 1:5 3:4,14 8:18 airport23:20 Allen2:10 3:16,16

5:19,22 6:4,15 7:19 9:22 10:4,11 11:12,1412:5,7 12:22 13:2,18,20 14:4 15:8,10,17 15:19 16:13,15 17:16,18 18:22 19:2 20:15,16 21:15,1622:17,22 23:6,19,21 25:12 25:15 27:3 allow21:4 allowing21:9 alternate 10:3 AMERICA!:! amount16:10 Amtrak24:7 and/or 13:12 answer4:22 5:4,21

6:1 7:17 14:10 appear8:10 19:9 APPEARANCES

2:I appeared22:3 appearing3:7,18 appears4:2 22:11

25:19 approximately

18:I Aprill8:13,17,18 19:4,620:7 area21:11,11

23:11 argument14:13,13 arguments 14:20 asked 11:17 assigning4:8 Assignment4:7 assistance26:10 attached6:18 attorney2:203:12

3:15 22:18 26:15 August17:11,12,20

20:8 available 10:8

11:10 14:924:9 Aviation2:5,5,12

3:9 B back25:8 backtrack10:18 13:5 16:1 based 18:2 basic 18:10 basically6:9 17:4 begins 19:15 behalf2:2,8 3:18

25:13 believe8:13 Berman2:3 3:13

4:21 5:1,5,97:4 8:2,6,13 9:1,5,9 9:18,20 10:13,16 10:22 11:3,9,18 11:21 12:18,19 13:15,1715:3,6 

## c cadre20:2 calendar8:8 9:II

9:18 26:6,14 calll:l2 care25:14 case4:8 8:16 9:3,13

24:2226:17 cases8:22 central24:10 change9:7 chat7:22 check14:15 24:2 city21:3 22:1,8 class5:13 Clerk6:6,9,107:5 client22:7 23:7

25:10,13 close7:17 closed 19:12 closer22:7 co-counsel3:18 codifies26:1 CODY2:20 colleague23:I come7:7 commonly 18:8 Complainant2:2 complaint4:3 5:4 complete25:20 completed18:3 completing 16:18 17:3,20 concluded27:7 courtroom24:21 crowded22:6 current16:22 currently22:I7 D D,C24:8 date8:49:4 16:19

17:1019:1820:4 20:12,13 26:6 dates7:149:7,19

12:12,17,21 26:1 day 11:4,7,18 12:10

12:13 17:2226:22 days 11:22 12:1,4

21:6 deadline 16:3,17,21

17:3,9 18:14,18 19:5 deadlines 13:16 December4:4 9:14

9:19,21,2110:1 24:13 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Page 28

discussions26:4 dispositive 14:1,6 16:9 18:426:9 dispute 12:2 14:9 District20:22

21:18 Docket3:5 6:6,9,10

7:5 DOT2:20 dovetai122:22 downtown21:3,10

24:1025:6 draw20:3 due7:1416:19 E early9:14,16,18,21

10:8 Eastern2:4 easy23:1724:6 either 10:12 12:16

15:16 16:11 17:11 17:1421:1224:925:6,22 26:8,18 email5:12 empty22:4 enjoy17:22 ESQ2:3,10,11 essentially7:3 everybody's 19:14 example24:725:1 exchange 13:8,13 14:19 18:7 19:11 19:13 26:3 excuse 13:13 25:17 exhibits 13:14 14:19 expert 19:21,21

20:6,10 expertise20:3 extended 17:8 F FAA3:114:3,9,19

6:10 FAA-2013-0849 1:5 3:5 facilities23:20 facility22:5 23:3 fact 12:19 14:21 facts 12:2 falls 11:7 familiar 19:10

23:10 far21:1724:18 fax2:7,16 6:20 7:8

7:13,18,18,19 FDMS 1:4 February4:15 10:10,15,21 11:1 11:8,10 12:10,11 12:11,12,13 13:11 federal2:5 3:9

20:2224:16 tile6:13 16:11 filed4:3,7,9,14,17 14:11 filing 14:1,6 16:3,7 16:9 find24:12 finding20:2221:6 fme 10:1113:2,17 15:16 17:15 18:16 20:14 21:13 firm2:12 25:2 first4:10,19 5:12 14:3 flexibility21:9 follow 14:6 forward6:11 26:4 further25:15 future22:13 G general6:2216:18

17:3,7,21 19:7 23:12 give 14:19 17:21

26:12,14 given22:11 go5:10 9:12 10:21

26:21 going3:17 5:18 8:2

8:3 9:8,12 13:5 14:17 16:1 17:2 20:5 22:12,15 25:1,3 26:5 good3:20 10:2

20:2226:3,22 gosh26:5 Greg2:1122:2 Gregory3:17 guess 12:3 H hallways22:4 happy24:4 hear 14:20 hearing6:6,9,9 7:4

8:4,16,17,18 9:4 11:18 12:20 20:20 23:1424:22 Hearings 1:2 4:5 help26:18 hereinafter3:10 hiring 19:20 holiday 18:1 holidays 15:3 Honor 10:12 22:20

23:6,21 HONORABLE 1:18 I immediately24:14 include 18:11 indicated16:19 18:13 20:21 individually6:12 information 17:6 initial18:8 19:5 initials3:11 initiated18:15 instructions26:12 interested12:15

20:4 interim 19:17 Interrogatories

4:10 irradiated7:10 Island21:11 Islip21:1,1722:6

24:1025:7 issue 14:8,21 J J.E 1:18 Jamaica2:6 January4:6,9,12

5:14,16 10:5 13:14 14:18 January's 10:7 Jared2:103:15 Judge 1:19 3:3 5:3

5:6,17,22 6:2,5,8 6:16,177:19,21 8:7,20 9:2,6,22 10:5,7,13,17 11:6 11:12,15,16 12:5 12:7,8,22 13:3,4 13:18,20,21 15:8 15:11,12,17,21 16:13,15,16 17:16 17:18,19 18:22 19:2,3 20:15,17 20:18 21:14,20 22:2,9,21 23:9,16 23:2225:11,12,15 25:1627:4 judgment14:8,22 16:4 June 16:20,20 17:9

20:11 K keep 10:19 12:16 kind5:2026:13,19 kinds 14:7 know5:10 8:911:3 14:422:10 23:3 23:19 24:18 knowledge23:l3 known 17:6 L L2:20 Labor 17:22 Law 1:192:12 let's7:22 10:17 12:8 13:22 16:2,7 18:5 19:17 light12:19 limine 13:12 limit 14:8 list6:18 lists 13:8,14 litigation3:84:6,13 16:2225:21 26:11 little7:22 10:20 12:21 13:5 16:18 17:22 LLC 1:5 3:4,14 located22:8 location20:20

21:1223:8,18 24:9 Long21:11 look6:17 10:18 13:9 15:1 16:10 26:4 looked9:11 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Page 29 looking9:16 11:19 15:221:2,10 looks 11:1612:14 18:14 lot 14:12 luck26:3 M M2:3,103:13,16 mail5:13,15 7:7,10 mailed5:14 March1:8 3:6 18:16 materiall6:21 materials6:11 matter 1:43:44:3

4:4 MD2:14 mean21:2 meaningful14:21 meet18:18 mix8:14 Monday 11:8 12:9 12:10 month 18:1 months24:21 morning 15:15 motion 14:22 16:9

16:11 26:9 motions 13:12 14:1 14:6,7,11,12 18:4 move25:6 moving 10:14 N name6:1922:1

26:15,17 need4:17 7:5 9:3

25:9,13 26:10 needs6:21 never22:5 New2:6 8:5,5,10

8:11 20:21,21 21:1,3,1022:8 23:2,10,2024:3 24:1025:5,7 north22:8note3:21 19:6 26:7 27:7 probably6:21 9:6 require14:12 notes 13:22 page8:3 19:15 10:9 11:2224:13 Research2:13 notice 1:13 4:6 part9:14 10:10,15 procednral4:16,16 respond 16:11

24:12 25:2 19:8 23:16,17 8:1 26:19 Respondent 1:6 2:8 November8:5,II 24:14 procedure25:22 3:14,194:20

8:18,18 15:5,13 particular6:6 26:11 21:16 15:22 26:7,20 parties3:6 4:179:7 proceeding4:7 Respondents9:I0 number3:5 6:20 9:14 12:15 13:13 14:1727:7 Responding4:22

6:20,21,22 7:18 14:9,1617:418:7 Production4:II response 16:4 19:9 26:15 19:19 20:5,10 proposall3:7 retaining 19:20 numbers7:2 21:4 proposed4:16 8:1 return12:13 party4:2226:18 8:49:8 17:8 right8:13 9:5,12 0 people7:13 18:10 20:19 16:627:4 objection 10:12,14 19:920:2 providing 18:19 Rockville2:14

21:8 23:14 period 10:3,18 14:2 24:11 Rule3:7,224:12,14 obviously8:17 18:6 18:5 19:18 pursuant1:13 17:5 6:18 18:9 occasionally20:3 personally22:2 pursue 18:4 October 13:6,8 phone26:15 put7:12 16:2 

## s

16:2,4,7 placeI:12 schedule4:178:1 office 1:2 2:44:5 Plains21:1822:I 0 10:20 11:5 12:17

5:15 6:12 7:1,6,13 23:2,10,15,20 question5:18 14:5 15:6,10 20:2 26:13 24:3,725:5 questions4:18 24:1726:13 Okay3:3 5:6,17 6:2 plan 12:9 14:1026:19 scheduled8:I0

7:19,21 9:22 plane24:7 12:20 10:1711:12,16 planning4:14 R schedules9:20 12:8,22 13:4,21 19:2220:11 reason7:9 25:6 24:19 13:22 15:12,21 Plaza2:5 reasonable20:9 scheduling3:84:13 16:1617:1918:22 possibility21:19 receive5:7 7:12 second4:20 19:3 20:18 21:14 possible 10:6 17:6 received4:21 5:4 see6:19 10:1921:3 22:9,21 23:9,16 24:3 5:15 26:6 23:2225:12,16 post7:12 receiving25:2 send5:206:11 once 17:6 potentiallyI0:2 recommendation sending5:1225:21 ongoing 18:6 pre-hearing12:16 23:2 sent5:11 6:5,7 open9:20 11:5 15:6 14:1426:8 record3:4,12,15 September16:8

15:10 precluded21:2 22:18 26:21 serve6:1,12 7:3,4,5 option21:5 prefer10:5 12:21 records5:I0 service6:18 7:6,16 orall4:12,13,20 15:1920:13 23:7 redoing16:22 set4:108:16 9:12 order4:126:19 preference12:18 referred4:5 13:10,11 14:3

16:22 18:12 25:22 15:14 17:13,18 Region2:4 15:13 16:17 17:2 26:11 preliminary4:18 Regional2:4 19:425:10,14 original12:16 prepared8:14 Regulations 17:5 setting4:12 9:16

16:19 presence25:19 relief18:4 14:1 20:4 present2:18 3:16 reply 16:3,8 settle25:I p President's 11:4,7 represented3:12 settlement26:4 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-
... previousII:8 3:15 show6:5

3:1 prior26:10 Request4:10,11 simply3:21 19:6 p.m1:13 3:2 15:22 privately22:17 requests5:2 24:1**~**""-'•'""**"''''''"'"='"'"'~·='"·'='·~,--** ...""'''""'-' ··-"''"'illlli""'="'"''"**;-,=,·••=~·"** _,**.-~** w - "--**--~"'"""'""'** '"'''"""-**"~w·•~-·'** ' ''""""'"'"='" -- Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Page 30 Smith2:2026:18 soon 17:5 sorry12:922:19 sounds 16:5 space24:12,21 speaker22:12 speaking22:13,16 speaks22:11 special20:6,10 specific20:20 specifically 19:19 staff2:20 19:22

24:2,15 26:16 start4:198:2,3 9:8

9:1713:625:4 starting10:22 15:3

21:7 starts20:7 STATES 1:1 status 14:15 26:8 stipulation 13:7 stipulations 13:12 stretchl2:17,21 submission4:14 submitted8:15 success20:22 suggest21:18 suggestions9:10 Suite2:13 SULLIVAN 1:18

3:3 5:3,6,17 6:2,8 6:177:21 8:7,20 9:2,6,22 10:7,13 10:17 11:6,12,16 12:5,8,22 13:4,18 13:2115:8,12,17 15:2116:13,16 17:16,19 18:22 19:3 20:15,18 21:14,2022:9,21 23:9,16,2225:12 25:1627:4 summary14:8,22

16:3 supplement17:5 supplemental

16:21 17:9sure 19:14 13:16 18:17 19:10 witness 13:8,14 4:12,16 5:15,16 19:15 24:21 14:19 19:21 8:5 9:19 13:6,8 T typically22:10 wouderfu122:5 15:5,14 16:1,2,8 take 13:9 15:1 24:1 work9:15,19 10:4 16:20,20 17:8,9

25:14 

## u 13:1520:225:5 17:20 18:13,16,17 ta1k9:3 13:22 18:5 

## u.s7:721:18 working26:17 18:18 19:4,620:8 19:17 understanding works26:16 20:9,1224:13 talked26:1 12:6 written 13:7,11 26:7,20 talking 10:9 26:5 UNITED 1:1 20159:16,16 10:9 telephone 1:13 3:7 update6:22 7:2 X 10:10,15 11:1,7,8

6:20,21,22 14:3,5 updated6:21 11:1112:10,11,11 y 15:13 use 10:20 12:11 12:12,1313:11,15 year 11:7 tell11:6 19:2220:11 14:18 thank5:177:21 usually24:20 York2:6 8:5,5,10 202-366-75367:18 8:11 20:21,21 11:9 22:21 25:17 utilizing 12:9 208502:14 25:18 26:22 27:2 21:1,3,1022:8 2116:20 17:8 27:3 

### v 23:3,11,20 24:3 21427:1 things3:21 voluntarily18:19 24:1025:5,7 22nd 15:5 think5:11 6:3 9:13 

## w z 2311:1,1112:10 11:2112:217:11 waited 19:12 Zachary2:3 3:12 244:4 12:11 thinking 18:11 25 12:11 thought8:20 want 10:19 14:19 26 12:12 16:8 19:14,19 21:3 0 three7:1,11 8:4 26(1)4:14 11:18,22 12:4 wanted9:17 1 26A(1)(a) 18:9 time 10:3,20 14:2 way8:21 14:7 12:5 13:8 18:13,17 27 12:13 ways24:6 14:20 16:10 17:1 18:18 19:4,620:7 2816:2 17:22 19:18 22:12 we'll6:1512:11 1:30 1:13 15:22 294-25252:16 24:15 25:18 26:6 13:9 14:3 22:19 26:7 294-85502:15 26:11 we're3:3 9:1511:5 1:323:2 11:10 25:2 times 15:424:16 104:15 3 today3:5 6:4,16 we've26:1 114342:6 35:14

7:17,20 19:16 week10:111:1,10 12 16:20 17:9 3:00 15:2226:7 25:10,19,22 15:4,7 12th10:2 304:1220:11 tomorrow25:22 weeks7:11 18:17 1513:6 14:18 17:20 3012:15,16 TRANSPORT A
... 19:16 20:8 Westchester21:22 4 1:1 White21:18 22:1 15th17:12 travel12:10,13 163:7,224:12 6:18 48:5

23:18 23:2,10,14,20 11:8 13:14 4502:13 trial8:1110:3 24:3,725:4 16th15:5 4th8:11,19 willing9:1521:4 12:1214:17 24:17 1716:7 5 trouble21:5 Wings 1:5 3:4,14 181:83:6 15:14,22 553-32582:6 try9:13 8:18 18:1626:7 5th8:12 trying8:21 Tuesday 1:8 3:6 Winton2:11 3:17 2 6 turn4:209:9 10:1 21:2222:2,10,19 2:0027:7 64:6 5:16 8:5 13:11 turning25:8 23:1,4 20134:4 two 11:17 12:1 wish26:2,22 2014 1:8 3:64:6,9 7

"""'"--**h~·--"""'"""~--=-"''-~'-~"~"""''"''"~""** ==-----''OC'='<"" -,> '"**'.-N,,N~,.,~~"'-"'''''"'-''''""""''"""** "'**'"='·""'""''"''"'""""'""''"'="'~""'"''"""""'=··#'** Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Page 31 7 16:20 

### f 7182:6,7 

### :**~** , 8 j j 8th 10:2 17:12 R i1 J 9 , 

### I 94:9 ,, 995-56992:7 'j 

### t**~ ~**  ' 

## l 

## " a 

### ' j



## , 

# I ' 3**~;** l f 

## t t t jj ,32 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: wings Air, LLC

Before: DOT Office of Hearings

Date: 03-18-2014

Place: Conference Call

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202}234-4433 Court Reporter

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com