NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU

Historical Services Branch

Interview NGB-06

INTERVIEW OF

MAJ GEORGE CHIN

Assistant G-3

42nd Infantry Division (Mechanized)

CONDUCTED BY

MAJ LES’ MELNYK

National Guard Bureau

Wednesday, September 19, 2001

Transcript reviewed and corrections made by MAJ Melnyk. 

Editorial comments appear in brackets []

TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
2

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 MAJ MELNYK: This is MAJ Les’ Melnyk, Army 

3 National Guard Historian for the National Guard Bureau.

4 I am interviewing MAJ George Chin. He is the 

5 Deputy G-3 for the 42nd Infantry Division, and, in this 

6 operation, he was acting as a liaison officer for the 

7 National Guard operations relating to the terrorist 

8 attack in New York City on 11 September.

9 This interview is taking place on the 19th of 

10 September at Battery Park in New York City.

11 MAJ Chin, you have read and signed the access 

12 agreement for oral history materials and agreed that 

13 everything you say here can be used by the Army however 

14 they wish. 

15 MAJ CHIN: Yes, I do.

16 MAJ MELNYK: Could you start by telling us a 

17 little bit about your background, your civilian 

18 background and your military background, including just 

19 to let us know where you're coming from.

20 MAJ CHIN: Okay. Basically, I entered the 

21 National Guard back in 1982, December of 1982, with the 
3

1 101st Cavalry. I came in as an enlisted personnel. I 

2 was, prior to that, enlisted active duty three years 

3 with the 44th MED Brigade, and on entering the National 

4 Guard, I was a medic for about one year and I entered 

5 into the OCS program up at Camp Smith, New York, and 

6 was commissioned second lieutenant in 1985.

7 From that point on, I had gone down to the 

8 basic course, Armor Branch, down at Fort Knox, 

9 Kentucky, and I was with the 101st CAV until 1987. 

10 I came out of HHC as the company commander and 

11 from that point, I was assigned to the 42nd Infantry 

12 Division and the G-3 under COL Nagle (phonetic.)

13 I was a battle captain there for the 1989 

14 Warfighter at Fort Leavenworth. 

15 After the Warfighter exercise, I had returned 

16 back to the 101st CAV as the Battalion S-3. LTC 

17 Generieux had -- was change of command with LTC 

18 Costagliola. 

19 At that point, I had moved into the battalion 

20 XO slot, but there was a lateral transfer with MAJ Durr 

21 and myself up at division.
4

1 So basically I am up there as the Deputy G-3, 

2 and that's where my current duty position right at this 

3 moment.

4 MAJ MELNYK: You've had that since --

5 MAJ CHIN: Since two ATs ago. 

6 MAJ MELNYK: Okay. Your civilian capacity?

7 MAJ CHIN: Yeah. I work for a company called 

8 Packard Bioscience, and basically they manufacture 

9 equipment that measures radioactivity. 

10 My service down at Fort Mammoth, New Jersey, 

11 basically some of those well known pharmaceutical 

12 companies, Merck in Rahway, New Jersey, Schering Plough 

13 in Kenilworth, New Jersey, Wyeth-Ayerst and Lederle in 

14 Grove River, New York, and a few other outliers of 

15 these companies. 

16 MAJ MELNYK: Where do you live?

17 MAJ CHIN: I reside in Staten Island, New 

18 York. I've been there since 1965, when my parents had 

19 moved there. I was basically born in the Bronx, New 

20 York, and the only time basically I was out from my 

21 residence here in New York was during my time in active 
5

1 duty at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. 

2 MAJ MELNYK: Okay. Sir, if we could take it 

3 now to September 11. If you could, describe what you 

4 were doing when you learned about the attack and what 

5 your first reactions were.

6 MAJ CHIN: Basically, it was pretty much a 

7 normal day, getting up. I had gone over to Fort 

8 Wadsworth, which is no longer Fort Wadsworth. It's 

9 owned by the Coast Guard. It used to be the Naval 

10 station.

11 MAJ MELNYK: It's located on the Staten Island 

12 end of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge.

13 MAJ CHIN: Right. And I had worked out in the 

14 gym prior to going to work, and I heard over -- upon 

15 going home, I heard something about a plane that had 

16 collided into the World Trade Center, and I didn't get 

17 all the bits and pieces.

18 It was a lot of confusion and basically my 

19 understanding was that maybe -- well, my feeling was 

20 that maybe perhaps an airliner or small Cessna or 

21 something of that sort maybe veered into the towers.
6

1 And at that point, I kind of went up 

2 overlooking the harbor to see if I could see it, and I 

3 seen some large dark smoke coming out. All of a 

4 sudden, I notice, also, a big flash from the other, 

5 coming out of the side of the building of the second 

6 tower.

7 And there were some workers landscaping and 

8 they had the radio on from their trucks and one worker 

9 also had a Nextel cell phone he was getting in some 

10 information from down here from the Battery Park.

11 At that point, we seen one of the first towers 

12 collapse and I can hear large rumbling from Staten 

13 Island, from here, when the tower had dropped. 

14 MAJ MELNYK: So you were at Fort Wadsworth 

15 watching across the harbor.

16 MAJ CHIN: Yes.

17 MAJ MELNYK: For quite some time, then.

18 MAJ CHIN: Some time, then. 

19 MAJ MELNYK: Yeah.

20 MAJ CHIN: And basically from listening to the 

21 radios, they shut down all the bridges just for 
7

1 security purposes and basically traffic, you can hear a 

2 lot of sirens going on and basically a lot of chaos 

3 going on.

4 At that point, I started -- proceeded to go 

5 home. I listened to my voicemail from the job and 

6 informed my boss, and my boss says, basically, you 

7 know, if you can, don't worry about work today.

8 At that point, my next message was that the 

9 Troy Armory had said that I needed to report up to the 

10 Troy Armory at the EOC. 

11 MAJ MELNYK: About what time was that?

12 MAJ CHIN: I think it was around 1000, 1100 

13 hours on that Tuesday morning.

14 And at that point, when I was en route home, 

15 traffic was backed up quite a bit on the Staten Island 

16 Expressway. They had kind of sealed off the bridges.

17 Pretty much it was chaos going on. A lot of 

18 cars were going in reverse, turning around, driving 

19 against traffic, people going through red lights.

20 At that point, I collected my gear. I was 

21 still not able to get off the island. I did phone the 
8

1 Troy EOC command post there and informed them that I 

2 was not able to and that I was going into my former 

3 battalion, reporting in there at the 101st CAV on 

4 Staten Island.

5 At that point, I reported to colonel 

6 Costagliola and basically what we did was tried to get 

7 everybody who was coming in on the alert and get an 

8 accountability, and not all of the staff was able to 

9 come in.

10 So I assisted colonel Costagliola in whatever 

11 means that he wanted me to do. Basically, what we did 

12 was we started getting EOC numbers, point of contacts 

13 up at the 53rd Troop Command, and just established some 

14 open communication and reported to them as to what the 

15 strength was currently.

16 We did gather a small convoy of medics, small 

17 groups of senior NCOs, MSG Ralph Urizzo, colonel Nachio 

18 (phonetic,) who was a JAG officer who was assigned 

19 there.

20 They basically was an advance party or 

21 quartering party to come into Manhattan and evaluate 
9

1 and assist in any way possible.

2 We got reports back that it was pretty bad and 

3 basically from our understanding, was that the fire 

4 department, their command center was located at the 

5 World Trade Center and it knocked out most of their top 

6 officials who were in command of that center for --

7 throughout New York City.

8 Back at Staten Island, we did have a Battalion 

9 Commander Leonard. He did stop by Staten Island 

10 Armory, just to see what kind of equipment that we did 

11 have. 

12 MAJ MELNYK: This is the fire department.

13 MAJ CHIN: The fire chief.

14 MAJ MELNYK: Fire chief.

15 MAJ CHIN: Fire department chief. And 

16 basically he wanted to see what kind of equipment that 

17 the military had at the armory at Staten Island.

18 And he did inform us that the top command, 

19 chain of command was wiped out at the World Trade 

20 Center and that they were now trying to get a handle 

21 and command and control.
10

1 MAJ MELNYK: Previous folks that I spoke to 

2 from the 101st told me that there was a fire department 

3 EOC collocated almost with the armory or located 

4 nearby.

5 MAJ CHIN: Yes. Right across the street from 

6 Slossen Avenue. We did provide an APC just to block 

7 off the entranceway, just for security purposes,

8 because we did not know if there was going to be any 

9 other attacks.

10 Basically, the party that came in to Staten 

11 Island, they eventually returned late Tuesday night and 

12 they reported back as to what they’d seen. Most of 

13 them started to go down on the West Side Highway here 

14 next to the -- even off of Broadway. 

15 There were just body parts just laying all 

16 over the streets and --

17 MAJ MELNYK: Again, what party had gone in?

18 MAJ CHIN: We had mostly medics that --

19 whatever medical personnel that we had. We even had 

20 some Reservists come in, reporting in that they were a 

21 field medic.
11

1 Of course, they showed us appropriate IDs and 

2 stuff like that and we just sent whatever ambulances, 

3 ambulance Humvees into the area, as well as the senior 

4 NCOs and I'm not -- I think it was CPT Reilly who also 

5 went in there. 

6 MAJ MELNYK: Yes.

7 MAJ CHIN: With that convoy. 

8 MAJ MELNYK: They came back that night or some 

9 of them?

10 MAJ CHIN: They did return probably -- it 

11 might have even been past midnight, into like Wednesday 

12 morning at that point, and there might have been some 

13 that might have stayed back here.

14 I understood that they set up a -- it was a 

15 command post, I think, right around Liberty Street near 

16 the site where it was up there. And basically they 

17 were given like flags and cones and stuff, where they 

18 seen body parts and stuff like that, so that they would 

19 try to help out the OEM, I guess.

20 MAJ MELNYK: When did you get in?

21 MAJ CHIN: I came in Wednesday morning and 
12

1 basically I came in with the scouts and everyone else. 

2 I guess, as far as I can recollect, but the eerie 

3 feeling was going through the Battery Tunnel. 

4 I used to work in Manhattan two years ago, 

5 quite a number of years, and to be faced with traffic 

6 just from Staten Island going to 57th Street, it used 

7 to take me an hour and a half just to go 18 miles.

8 And that particular morning, there was like no 

9 traffic out at all. The Battery Tunnel was shut down, 

10 just with the Tri-Borough Bridge police, and they 

11 checked IDs and allowed military vehicles to go through 

12 there.

13 But they did inform me that halfway through 

14 the tunnel, that there was no lights. And when we got 

15 to that point, all you seen was just black soot and 

16 smoke. You couldn't even see -- the only thing that 

17 you could see in front of you was just as much as the 

18 headlights would show.

19 And it was basically an eerie feeling because 

20 you knew that the buildings went down, you just did not 

21 know what to expect when you got on the outside of the 
13

1 tunnel.

2 When we did get through, we kind of reported 

3 down here at the Battery Park area, where most of all 

4 the troops were using as an assembly area, and we 

5 pretty much coordinated with the police department and 

6 pretty much got our missions from there.

7 During that interim, even from Tuesday on, I 

8 was trying to get a hold of MAJ Bob Magnanini, because 

9 he and I usually travel up together, because we're 

10 primarily basically senior staff guys from the division 

11 that lived downstate New York here, and we'd usually 

12 car pool it together.

13 And cell phones were very -- they either 

14 worked or they didn't work. The public telephones here 

15 in the area did not work at all, even on Staten Island, 

16 I guess maybe because the World Trade Center had a lot 

17 of the antennas or the microwave antennas to provide 

18 that transmission, and like I said, it just either 

19 worked or it didn't work.

20 Other than that, later that night, on 

21 Wednesday, there was quite a bit of number of missions 
14

1 that were going on, cordon -- blocking off the World 

2 Trade Center.

3 MAJ MELNYK: Since you were something of an 

4 orphan officer, how did the 101 use you? What role did 

5 you play?

6 MAJ CHIN: Basically, it was still liaison, 

7 but I think we were waiting for MAJ Durr, who was the 

8 battalion XO, to come down.

9 He was trying to rally up Bravo Company and 

10 Charlie Company from Bravo B up in Troy, New York, and 

11 Charlie Company from Hoosick Falls.

12 And the battalion S-3, who was a Suffolk 

13 County cop, wasn't there. So I was probably playing a 

14 bit of a dual role there and just taking orders, see 

15 whatever I can do to help out the battalion and 

16 contact.

17 MAJ MELNYK: And since there was only -- the 

18 battalion commander was the only other field grade 

19 there. You --

20 MAJ CHIN: Right.

21 MAJ MELNYK: You filled in, since you had 
15

1 actually served in the S-3 capacity at the time before.

2 MAJ CHIN: Right. Right. So basically the 

3 scouts had a mission to block off key intersections to 

4 allow construction workers, firefighters, police to get 

5 in there. 

6 It might have even been in Thursday. You 

7 would start losing track of time and all sense as to 

8 what's going around and just kind of focusing in on 

9 what's in front of you.

10 But we did get a mission where a lot of the 

11 outside New York City Fire Department, they had 

12 volunteer fire department from New Jersey, out of state 

13 people coming in, off duty cops, people trying to get 

14 in heavy duty construction equipment and setting it up.

15 The Liberty Plaza area, basically, they asked 

16 for National Guard detail of about maybe of a platoon 

17 size, which we had with the scouts, and we kind of 

18 walked the line up and kind of cleared the area and 

19 basically the police chief there said that he was 

20 trying to do that for three hours, and wasn't able to 

21 do it.
16

1 And we kind of cleared it off and coordinated 

2 -- cordoned off the area within 15 minutes. And there 

3 was a lot of cooperation. There as no animosity 

4 between the civilian side and the city workers and us.

5 But what was really eerie is to see the site 

6 itself, the buildings just torn apart and the World 

7 Trade Center just completely down, and it was just only 

8 a matter of maybe, what, four stories high, if that, 

9 and just, you know, the smoke, just constantly burning.

10 And with there being already a little more 

11 than a week now, you know, there's still smoldering 

12 fire that's coming up. 

13 The eerie thing is that you don't see any 

14 office equipment, you don't see any ceiling tiles, you 

15 don't see any furniture. Maybe you only seen one 

16 computer monitor come out of the whole thing and 

17 apparently one of the fire chiefs there and, I guess, 

18 one of the civil engineers said that the intensity of 

19 the heat inside when the plane had crashed into the 

20 building and that JP8 kind of dropped down into the 

21 elevator shafts.
17

1 MAJ MELNYK: JP8 being the jet fuel.

2 MAJ CHIN: Yes.

3 MAJ MELNYK: For someone listening to this who 

4 doesn't know that.

5 MAJ CHIN: That that whole building just acted 

6 like a chimney, like a flue that -- the intensity of 

7 the heat that they were kind of expecting was at least 

8 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit and that everything was just 

9 disintegrated, concrete, and it's unbelievable.

10 I understand that what facade of the building 

11 that is embedded into the side there, I understood from 

12 LT McCaffrey, from the ESU Squad had mentioned to me 

13 that they realized that that piece of the facade that's 

14 sticking out over on Church Street --

15 MAJ MELNYK: The South Tower.

16 MAJ CHIN: Yes. Was the 69th and 71st floor. 

17 Apparently, they tried to take one of the cranes and 

18 pull it out and then maybe lay it down on the street to 

19 torch it down, but they weren't even able to get that 

20 out.

21 They kind of suspect that when that fell, it's 
18

1 probably embedded about two stories in the ground.

2 MAJ MELNYK: So that's not the base of the 

3 building that everybody sees there. 

4 MAJ CHIN: Right, it's not. It's the 69th and 

5 71st floor and how they could tell that it's those 

6 particular floors is that when this World Trade Center 

7 was built, all of that was kind of marked and then 

8 saying that, all right, this is the 69th floor, the 

9 71st floor, this is now where they started craning up 

10 and when it was built, that's where it was.

11 So that's how they know.

12 MAJ MELNYK: The original markings. 

13 MAJ CHIN: Right. Right. 

14 MAJ MELNYK: That's something new. I hadn't 

15 heard that before. 

16 MAJ CHIN: One of the --

17 MAJ MELNYK: When did you actually lay eyes on 

18 it? What brought you down in that vicinity?

19 MAJ CHIN: I --

20 MAJ MELNYK: You initially established here 

21 down at Battery Park, but --
19

1 MAJ CHIN: Right.

2 MAJ MELNYK: -- what brought you forward?

3 MAJ CHIN: Basically, the battalion was 

4 already told that we were going to operate down here in 

5 the Battery Park area, and to get everyone over here 

6 forward and start to take up missions.

7 Once that pretty much set in, I started to 

8 report in. I ran into MAJ Magnanini and we kind of 

9 rallied up together. We got our information. We were 

10 in contact with the 42nd Division EOC up in Troy, New 

11 York, reported to colonel Luthringer, COL Hefner, at 

12 that point. 

13 The whole division staff actually was out at 

14 Fort Leavenworth for the Warfighter ramp-up, combat 

15 BCTP [Battle Command Training Program] seminar out 

16 there, and at that point, the FAA had restricted all 

17 air flights throughout the country. Nothing was flying 

18 in and flying out.

19 MAJ MELNYK: Did you have contact with the 

20 actual command and control element of the 53rd Troop 

21 Command or did you just contact --
20

1 MAJ CHIN: I contacted the division. I did 

2 speak to Command Sergeant Major -- I can't think of his 

3 name right now.

4 MAJ MELNYK: At Troop Command?

5 MAJ CHIN: No. Up at division.

6 MAJ MELNYK: At division.

7 MAJ CHIN: And I was basically told that to 

8 stay down here, not to report up to Troy, and I kind of 

9 reported in to LTC Markey from the 107th. He's out of 

10 the 53rd Troop Command, and basically that's where I 

11 was working out of. 

12 And then I kind of reported back down here as 

13 being liaison, just to get a feel and report back to 

14 the Troop Command.

15 MAJ MELNYK: At what point did you break off 

16 from your association with your old unit, the 101, and 

17 become the liaison to the civilian authorities that you 

18 became?

19 MAJ CHIN: I think it was basically around 

20 probably Wednesday night, late Wednesday night into 

21 Thursday.
21

1 MAJ MELNYK: And so you stayed here while the 

2 rest of the battalion went back to Staten Island.

3 MAJ CHIN: Yeah. Pretty much when Bravo and 

4 Charlie Company had showed up, they appeared here down 

5 at the Battery Park and at that point, then I had broke 

6 loose.

7 MAJ MELNYK: And the S-3, at that point, 

8 arrived with the -- the XO arrived.

9 MAJ CHIN: The XO arrived, yes.

10 MAJ MELNYK: With those companies.

11 MAJ CHIN: Yes.

12 MAJ MELNYK: And the S-3 was en route still.

13 MAJ CHIN: Right. Right. 

14 MAJ MELNYK: From there, what led you into 

15 that role?

16 MAJ CHIN: Into what role?

17 MAJ MELNYK: Into the role of liaison. Nobody 

18 ordered you to become the liaison to the police or the 

19 fire or you were hooked up with MAJ Magnanini. 

20 MAJ CHIN: That was pretty much the directive 

21 from LTC Luthringer, who is the G-3 for the 42nd 
22

1 Division. He said that, you know, since MAJ Magnanini 

2 and myself were on site here, that we should probably 

3 be the division reps, and at that point, I believe the 

4 Aviation Brigade from Patchogue had arrived and it was 

5 under the command of COL Meskill and COL Doyle. [COL 

6 Doyle was scheduled to assume command of the Aviation 

7 Bde on 1 Oct 03]

8 MAJ MELNYK: Aviation Brigade got on the 

9 ground and assumed control, tactical control on 

10 Saturday.

11 MAJ CHIN: Right.

12 MAJ MELNYK: So prior to Saturday, you did 

13 what?

14 MAJ CHIN: Basically, what happened was the 

15 lower Manhattan area was broken down to seven sectors 

16 or seven zones and I was responsible for zone one, 

17 which was the World Towers site.

18 MAJ MELNYK: Ground zero. 

19 MAJ CHIN: Ground zero.

20 MAJ MELNYK: Or the pile or the pit, as 

21 everybody has been calling it.
23

1 MAJ CHIN: Yeah. We had basically four 

2 officers that were assigned here. So sector six and 

3 seven was really not covered. Seven was pretty much 

4 the perimeter of one, one being just the ground zero 

5 site.

6 MAJ MELNYK: Seven is the outer perimeter.

7 MAJ CHIN: Yes. 

8 MAJ MELNYK: Yeah.

9 MAJ CHIN: And --

10 MAJ MELNYK: Six is all above Canal Street, 

11 where there was no crisis.

12 MAJ CHIN: Right. At that point, I was told 

13 to report with the Police Chief Fox, and he was working 

14 the day shift, and night shift was Deputy Chief 

15 Esposito, and I believe there was a Chief H-o-e-h-l, I 

16 believe his name is Hoehl. He's the overall three star 

17 in the NYPD. They have these three stars and I guess 

18 they're called chief or deputy chief. 

19 MAJ MELNYK: And where was this location?

20 MAJ CHIN: This was on Vesey Street and 

21 Church, basically right in front of the American 
24

1 Express Building on Vesey Street, and that street was 

2 basically used for the New York Fire Department and the 

3 New York City Police Department as a staging area, 

4 having these guys go out to ground zero and trying to 

5 do a rescue and recovery mission there. 

6 MAJ MELNYK: When, again, did you report 

7 there?

8 MAJ CHIN: Basically, probably around 

9 Thursday, Thursday --

10 MAJ MELNYK: Around Thursday. 

11 MAJ CHIN: I can't give you the time. I'm 

12 starting to lose track of time frames here. And at 

13 that point, I was to report to the police chief and 

14 coordinate with him to see what kind of assistance that 

15 the National Guard Troops can do, what our capabilities 

16 were. 

17 At that point, the 42nd Aviation had their S18 1, S-4 and S-3 Expandovans set up. Cell phones were 

19 given out to all the liaison officers and we were 

20 supposed to just keep giving spot situation reports in.

21 Whatever missions that the city officials 
25

1 requested, try to find out what the battalions had 

2 available to do that, and if we could provide that 

3 mission.

4 MAJ MELNYK: So you took the mission straight 

5 from the chief and transmitted that to who?

6 MAJ CHIN: Over to the TOC area here.

7 MAJ MELNYK: To the Aviation elements that 

8 were on the ground.

9 MAJ CHIN: Aviation Brigade. Yes.

10 MAJ MELNYK: Beginning Thursday.

11 MAJ CHIN: Thursday.

12 MAJ MELNYK: Yeah.

13 MAJ CHIN: Yes.

14 MAJ MELNYK: And they would then distribute it 

15 down to the battalions.

16 MAJ CHIN: Right.

17 MAJ MELNYK: Whoever could handle it.

18 MAJ CHIN: Right. And basically, the 101 CAV 

19 had zone two, which was Battery Park south up to 

20 probably Wall Street, along Broadway. 

21 Zone five I think was the 258, and that kind 
26

1 of stretched from Water Street or Broad Street down to 

2 the South Street, all the way up to around Liberty.

3 Zone four went from Liberty all the way up 

4 north to about Canal Street, I would say.

5 But we did have a -- I did spend some time 

6 probably around Wednesday down on Peck Slip Street and 

7 South Street. The NYPD basically had their command 

8 post set up there. 

9 MAJ MELNYK: Peck Slip and not Pike?

10 MAJ CHIN: Yeah.

11 MAJ MELNYK: Several people identified as Pike 

12 Street and looking on the map, I couldn't find a Pike, 

13 but I found Peck Slip.

14 MAJ CHIN: The general vicinity was basically 

15 right -- directly underneath the Manhattan Bridge.

16 MAJ MELNYK: The Manhattan Bridge or Brooklyn?

17 MAJ CHIN: Manhattan. Manhattan Bridge.

18 MAJ MELNYK: Manhattan Bridge. And people --

19 MAJ CHIN: Yeah. That was the initial site 

20 for all the NYPD and they wanted the 101 CAV TOC to be 

21 stationed there, and basically I just reported there, I 
27

1 guess, prior to going up to the 53rd Troop Command.

2 But everything was phenomenal. It almost --

3 the people, food, everything, just -- it just came out 

4 of nowhere. 

5 There was no problem of eating or anything of 

6 that sort. There was still problems trying to 

7 communicate in the city here with the cell phone, but 

8 from that point, a lot of the zone commanders, they 

9 established these seven zones and they sent in these 

10 mobile -- it almost looks like a Winnebago type deal, 

11 and they started establishing, each chief, like lower 

12 Manhattan, Brooklyn south, all sorts of areas. 

13 Manhattan south, Queens south, Brooklyn south.

14 MAJ MELNYK: Queens north.

15 MAJ CHIN: Queens north.

16 MAJ MELNYK: Right. Each one (inaudible.)

17 MAJ CHIN: Manhattan north. Yeah. 

18 MAJ MELNYK: Right.

19 MAJ CHIN: And each one of those zones was 

20 dictated to those particular precincts in the area.

21 MAJ MELNYK: So there was a liaison officer in 
28

1 each of those areas and you were at the main 

2 headquarters for the whole effort.

3 MAJ CHIN: Right.

4 MAJ MELNYK: Peck Slip and South.

5 MAJ CHIN: Right. But then after Peck Slip 

6 and South, once these seven zones were set up, that was 

7 pretty much disbanded at that point. There was no 

8 longer a need for a centralized area there.

9 They did keep some kind of one van there, but 

10 pretty much the -- everybody seemed to go directed 

11 towards their individual zones and basically there was 

12 a meeting every day at One Police Plaza, with all the 

13 deputy chiefs for --

14 MAJ MELNYK: Where is One Police Plaza? For 

15 those who don't know New York.

16 MAJ CHIN: One Police Plaza is on Pearl 

17 Street, right along the Brooklyn Bridge, right in front 

18 of Chambers Street, just down the street from city 

19 hall.

20 And we were reporting in basically at 1200 

21 hours there, although the liaisons would show up and 
29

1 COL Doyle would be there meeting with the chiefs and we 

2 would get a rundown from each one of the chiefs as to 

3 the --

4 MAJ MELNYK: COL Doyle was the --

5 MAJ CHIN: The basic overall OIC going in to 

6 talk with them and then we were there just to get our 

7 chiefs in each particular zone to find out what changes 

8 were made and then confirm that with COL Doyle.

9 MAJ MELNYK: COL Doyle was operating that from 

10 Aviation Brigade as the --

11 MAJ CHIN: Right. But he --

12 MAJ MELNYK: -- executive officer.

13 MAJ CHIN: That's correct. He would then 

14 report in to the 1200 meeting, as well.

15 MAJ MELNYK: And he would take charge --

16 MAJ CHIN: At One Police Plaza.

17 MAJ MELNYK: -- of the liaisons. And what 

18 kind of changes would you discuss?

19 MAJ CHIN: Well, for instance, I believe on 

20 Sunday night, we met there around 2300, because now 

21 Monday they were going to begin allowing the civilians 
30

1 or the New Yorkers to begin returning to lower 

2 Manhattan in certain areas, and --

3 MAJ MELNYK: To go to work.

4 MAJ CHIN: To go to work and basically the 

5 discussion was to -- how do we go about getting the 

6 buses in, what was open, what was operational.

7 The New York City Transit express buses from 

8 Staten Island were allowed to go through the Battery 

9 Tunnel, coming out of the Battery Tunnel on the west 

10 side, on West Street.

11 They would go through -- there's a tunnel 

12 underneath the Battery Park and would exit out of Water 

13 Street and the express buses that were taking 

14 passengers to midtown would proceed directly on the FDR 

15 Drive and probably exit off of 42nd Street, 61st 

16 Street.

17 Those buses that were dropping off passengers 

18 down to the lower Manhattan area, like Wall Street, 

19 Maiden Lane, they would take underneath the FDR Drive, 

20 which is South Street, and then they would stop making 

21 bus stops at Maiden Lane, Wall Street, and allowing 
31

1 passengers to return to their buildings to work.

2 And they would basically go up to, I believe, 

3 Houston Street and make a U-turn there, come back.

4 Cabs, taxis were not allowed yet in the areas. 

5 Limos were not allowed in the areas. They were 

6 beginning to allow delivery trucks to return into the 

7 area. They would have basically a check point along 

8 Church Street, Broadway, around Canal Street. They 

9 would have show proof of lading, shipping materials.

10 They would check randomly some boxes. They 

11 did have some bomb dogs to go through there, because 

12 they weren't going to open up everything in a box 

13 there.

14 They were informed as to what zones they were 

15 able to enter in. So and so forth. I mean, that was 

16 basically it. So it was basically just the 

17 coordination, everything to synchronize between all 

18 agencies and to see what was going on and also to find 

19 out where we stood with ConEd, what buildings had 

20 power, what buildings did not have power, how could we 

21 utilize the Guard members there.
32

1 At one point, in the beginning, they were 

2 using Guard members along with police officers to go 

3 floor by floor to check some of these buildings, but 

4 53rd Troop Command wanted that stopped.

5 I don't know what reason. It might have been 

6 maybe some legal issues or something like that.

7 MAJ MELNYK: When you say in the beginning, 

8 when, to the best of your recollection? 

9 MAJ CHIN: Probably around Saturday that was 

10 going on. What they would do is then let the NYPD go 

11 ahead floor by floor. They would actually also go up 

12 on the roof, and I think what they were looking for is 

13 any body remains that might be up there on the roof.

14 Also, to check buildings that nobody -- you 

15 know, an elderly couple that might have been through 

16 this whole ordeal, to check to see that no one, you 

17 know, was occupying it. 

18 At that point, once a building was cleared, 

19 they would station maybe a couple of Guard members in 

20 front of the building, not allowing anyone to go in. 

21 One thing that was kind of eerie, you could 
33

1 see that people would leave their office open and you 

2 can see the desks with their laptops still open, a set, 

3 a pair of glasses was sitting there, a suit jacket, a 

4 sports jacket draped over a desk chair, and no bodies. 

5 And it was almost an eerie feeling, like, you know, 

6 where did everybody go. It's almost like they were 

7 vaporized or something.

8 But other than that, most of the buildings did 

9 not have power yet. GE had provided these generators 

10 that were on a tractor-trailer and they were working 

11 with ConEd and desperately trying to set up power for 

12 these buildings in order to get this ready for Monday, 

13 and I think it was probably stressed an importance 

14 maybe from Mayor Giuliani to show that, you know, yeah, 

15 we can set up business as usual with even this kind of 

16 disaster.

17 MAJ MELNYK: What was the priority for getting 

18 power back? Was it businesses?

19 MAJ CHIN: What we heard was the importance 

20 was to get Wall Street back to open.

21 MAJ MELNYK: The stock exchange and the --
34

1 MAJ CHIN: The stock exchange.

2 MAJ MELNYK: -- associated businesses.

3 MAJ CHIN: Yeah. And that was the number one 

4 priority. 

5 MAJ MELNYK: What role did the Guard play in 

6 helping that happen? What kind of missions did you 

7 help arrange? 

8 MAJ CHIN: I did not have too much hands on. 

9 Probably MAJ Magnanini, who was pretty much down in 

10 this area here, or the 642 and the 258 were basically -

11 - pretty much the 69th was down here, down in this 

12 lower area. 

13 MAJ MELNYK: So amongst the agencies, you had 

14 mentioned ConEd was there, obviously the PD, they ran 

15 the show, fire department, I assume, would attend or 

16 were they strictly involved with --

17 MAJ CHIN: No. They were pretty much with the 

18 rescue and recovery operations there. 

19 MAJ MELNYK: Any other element that --

20 MAJ CHIN: We had a lot of Verizon people 

21 here. The one that I've seen is that the abundance of 
35

1 agencies that were down here, Federal Marshals, outside 

2 county people, other county police departments from 

3 outside of New York were here, cadaver dogs were all 

4 over the place from various parts of the country that 

5 were in here, numerous volunteers that were just 

6 phenomenal at what type of support that was giving to 

7 New Yorkers and to the fire department, police 

8 department.

9 I've got to commend most of these construction 

10 workers. You know, you hear so much in the news about 

11 the fire department, not to take credit away from them, 

12 or the police department, but these ironworkers who are 

13 able to get these large cranes and torch everything 

14 apart and get that away, you know.

15 Talking to the 204th Engineers, most of the 

16 equipment that they have is not even capable of doing 

17 that. So, I mean, my -- me personally is my hat's off 

18 to them. 

19 MAJ MELNYK: What -- most of the people that I

20 have interviewed so far have commented on the positive 

21 relationships that overwhelmingly they had conducting 
36

1 liaison with the -- primarily the police department and 

2 fire department.

3 First off, did you generally share -- agree 

4 with that?

5 MAJ CHIN: Absolutely, yeah.

6 MAJ MELNYK: Having said that, what kind of 

7 problems did you face and where did you have to smooth 

8 things over, if at all, between the Guard and the 

9 civilian authorities?

10 MAJ CHIN: Basically, we had to get a clear 

11 understanding as to what our mission as the Guard to be 

12 here. A lot of the OEMs from the Mayor's office and 

13 stuff, there wasn't much of a good in synchronization 

14 between agencies.

15 And a good example is the fire department 

16 command post. Basically, I tried to ask the police 

17 chief if they had contact with the fire department, and 

18 it was basically their own entity.

19 So basically as the liaison officer for so 

20 long, I reported in to the fire department's command 

21 post, which is also like a Winnebago type deal, and 
37

1 reported in there and seen -- introduced myself and 

2 told them as to what capabilities we had or if they had 

3 any issues or concerns and what kind of capacities that 

4 they could find out from me.

5 Basically, I left my cell number that I was 

6 assigned and keep people down here at the TOC, at the 

7 Aviation, and also inform them that MAJ Jeff Seals, who 

8 is the battalion commander of the 204th, gave his cell 

9 number and told them primarily who the key players are 

10 down here.

11 I also touched base again, like I said before, 

12 with the police command center. ESU was located down 

13 at Stuyvesant High School, checked in there.

14 I tried to make my rounds all throughout the 

15 zone there.

16 MAJ MELNYK: Pretty much every day?

17 MAJ CHIN: Pretty much every day. I did find 

18 out probably about Saturday or Sunday morning, I 

19 understood that there was the 179th Air Guard, I 

believe, out of Syracuse [correction - 174th 20 Fighter 

21 Wing]. They had a communication team up there and they 
38

1 were just pulling out.

2 So coordination between the Air Guard and the

3 Army National Guard, that was a problem there.

4 I also did see that there was also a Marine 

5 Corps group here. I'm not -- I just only met MAJ 

6 Fisher today and I kind of coordinated with him at the 

7 police command center there, just kind of spoke with 

8 him briefly, until something critical came up that I 

9 had --

10 MAJ MELNYK: That's interesting. Were they 

11 volunteers?

12 MAJ CHIN: That I don't know. 

13 MAJ MELNYK: I was not aware of troops here in 

14 a Federal status.

15 MAJ CHIN: I don't know. I don't know if they 

16 were reservists or active component. I don't even know 

17 what their capabilities were or what they were actually 

18 doing, if they had something to do with the excavation.

19 MAJ MELNYK: They were in uniform.

20 MAJ CHIN: Yes.

21 MAJ MELNYK: I guess they were under orders.
39

1 MAJ CHIN: Yeah.

2 MAJ MELNYK: That's an interesting thing that 

3 probably needs to be investigated further, because 

4 everybody here is under the impression that the only 

5 troops on ground are state active duty for New York 

6 National Guard.

7 MAJ CHIN: No. There were Air Force -- or Air 

8 Guard members here.

9 MAJ MELNYK: But that's still New York 

10 National Guard. 

11 MAJ CHIN: I would believe so. And there 

12 could be something that could be out of state, as well, 

13 that I'm not aware of. But --

14 MAJ MELNYK: Thank you.

15 MAJ CHIN: Other than that, I don't know what 

16 more to say.

17 MAJ MELNYK: Well, sir, your overall 

18 impressions, as a final thought, in terms of what 

19 significance does this have to you and what 

20 significance do you think it's going to have for the 

21 New York National Guard, particularly here in New York 
40

1 City?

2 MAJ CHIN: The funny thing about it was last 

3 September of last year, I was asked if I can attend the 

4 force protection anti-terrorist class down at Park 

5 Avenue Armory, and I believe that was SGT Rosencrantz 

6 (phonetic,) who is from STARC, and we had a couple of 

7 -- a major, I don't recall his name, and another senior 

8 NCO that provided that class. 

9 And the key issue was to start all of the 

10 armories to set up a force protection SOP and basically 

11 that was just completed probably about a month ago up 

12 in the Troy Armory.

13 MAJ MELNYK: Many of the men I've spoken to, 

14 officers and men I have spoken to complained about lack 

15 of force protection and not being allowed to carry 

16 their weapons, and they are still under the impression 

17 to this moment that there is a threat of terrorist 

18 attack.

19 MAJ CHIN: My concern right now is that we did 

20 get reports about a missing Verizon vehicle yesterday 

21 and we did understand that it was just misplaced.
41

1 The first thing that comes to mind is Beirut, 

2 you know. What capabilities do we have right now where 

3 we only have our soldiers not even armed no longer. I 

4 mean, they weren't carrying ammunition, but how do you 

5 go about stopping a vehicle at these checkpoints, with 

6 numerous, hundreds and hundreds of people here right 

7 now, to stop a vehicle going 50 or 80 miles an hour, 

8 with possibly explosives there. 

9 That to me is a concern. I think since '93, 

10 with the [first] attack on the World Trade Center, you 

11 know, we knew that maybe somehow that this was going to 

12 happen, but, you know, what we were going to do, and 

13 now that this happened, I think it changes the entire 

14 perspective that America has at this point in time, 

15 that it's probably finally reached here in the United 

16 States where we've only seen it in other countries.

17 MAJ MELNYK: I would agree. Thank you very 

18 much.

19 (The interview was concluded.)

20 * * * * *