**US ACCESS BOARD PUBLIC HEARING** Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9 :3 0 a.m. – 12:00 p.m. Access Board Conference Room Washington, DC **NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING :**  **EMERGENCY TRANSPORTABLE HOUSING**

**WITNESSES:** 1. Doug Anderson, Partner, LCM Architects, Chicago, IL 2. Mark Weiss, Sr. Vice President, Manufactured Housing Association for Regulatory Reform, Washington, DC 3. Kelly Buckland, Executive Director, National Council on Independent Living, Washington, DC 4. Lois Starkey, Vice President, Regulatory Affairs, Arlington, VA 5. Mary Troupe, Director, Just Advocacy of Mississippi, Pearl, MS 6. F.R. Jayar Daily, American Homestar Corporation, League City, TX 7. Dominic Marinelli, Vice President of Accessibility Services, United Spinal Association, West Seneca, NY 8. Charles Tubre, Systems Advocacy Specialist, The Advocacy Center, New Orleans, LA 9. Robert Solomon, Division Manager, NFPA 10. Cary LaCheen, Senior Staff Attorney, National Center for Law and Economic Justice, New York, NY 11. Mary Lamielle, Executive Director, National Center for Environmental Health Strategies, Inc., Voorhees, NJ **CART Services Provided by :**  Metro Reporters **Re altime Reporter**  **:** Sherry C . Knox, CBC, CCP ( **NOTE:** This text is being provided in a rough draft format. C ommunication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. )US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **2** of **48 US ACCESS BOARD PUBLIC HEARING**  Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:30 a.m. – 12:00 p.m. Access Board Conference Room Washington, DC **NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING: EMERGENCY TRANSPORTABLE HOUSING** 

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : So, good morning . It's 9:30 . Let's start . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Good morning . My name is KAREN BRAITMAYER , and I am vice chair of the Access Board and chair of the ad hoc commit tee that's developing this rule making . It is my pleasure to welcome each of you today on this board's proposed accessibility guidelines for emergency transp ortable housing . All too often we take our housing for granted and in particular we have found that when disaster strikes like Hurricane Katrina and Rita, that temporary housing units that were used are often not accessible to people with disabilities . So the Board developed these proposed accessibility guidelines with the help of an advisory committee in order to address variety issues of accessible housing including requirements for ramps, floor surfaces, kitchens, showers, and bedrooms .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **3** of **48** In ad dition, this proposed rule include s provisions for accessible communication features such as smoke alarms and weather alert systems . All of these requirements have one goal in mind : To enable people with disabilities and their families to independently use emergency transportable housing should the need ever arise . Many of you in the audience today either physically here or listening on the phone and many of those who are planning on testifying today served on our federal advisory commi ttee that developed the recommendations for this rule . We are very grateful for your service to the Board and we are looking forward to your comments today . And now, Marsha Mazz is going to make a brief presentation describing the ground rules for this hearing . >> MARSHA MAZZ : Thank you, Karen . As Karen said, this is our public hearing on a notice of proposed rulemaking to establish...

>> DOUG ANDERSON : ...who have lived in the emergency transportableUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **4** of **48** housing during the aftermath of Hu rricanes Katrina and Rita and was extremely valuable when you have the feedback from manufacturers and providing information about the implications of different changes in the requirements to their equipment and their processing or production of those thin gs, and then input from FEMA, HUD, and many other federal agencies, including the Department of Justice . So . I hope that all that hard work has already addressed the major concerns from all sides on these issues and will hasten the finalization and the i mplementation of this important rule . You know when you're out here every day in your home environment and you live with the all the things you take for granted, ad how significant those things can be and how they can impact your life . I was just on a camping trip in Colorado and reminded of this challenge of - some of my family members noticed the challenges more than I did -- a little gadget can make your life a whole lot easier when you're maybe in a camping situation, or a portable emergency trans portable housing situation, and I know they're not the same, I know it's much more difficult to go through the ETH thing, but I bring it up just as an example . The shower spray unit at the kitchen sink which was brought up in the ETH rule and this might b e a fairly inexpensive addition to a unit, but this can make everything in life so much easier for people with disabilities, and I can remember the committee member from New Orleans claiming how important it was, not only for washing dishes but washing hai r, and other cleaning - type jobs that they would do .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **5** of **48** So, the change in weather patterns is very evident also in this country . When we were in Colorado Springs just for a couple of days, and just after we left, the fire was coming into the town of Colo rado Springs . And then we got back home, and the week of the 4th, a severe storm hit my town, there 200,000 people in the Chicago area without power for about 4 days . Our mayor declared a state of emergency and all the July 4th events were cancelled . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Doug --

>> DOUG ANDERSON : This was a very tiny taste of living through an emergency, but these things are happening more and more, which just shows how important the rule is . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Doug, we're going to have to conclude your comments at this time . >> DOUG ANDERSON : Oh . Okay . Well, can I just say two more sentences? I 'd like to encourage the Board hasten the passage of the implementation of these standards, and remind everyone America has many more storms on the horizon and in very much need of this rule . Thank you for your time . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **6** of **48** >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR , mute Doug Anderson . >> OPERATOR : His line is muted . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : And I believe the next individual to testify is Mary Troupe, and that she will also be calling in? >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR , locate Mary Troupe, and unmute . >> OPERATOR : I just saw that she was in the call and that she's hung up, so hopefu lly she'll call back in . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Okay . Karen . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : So we will move to our next presenter . This is Mark Weiss . Mark, we'll get your mic on in just a moment, please . 4.22 >> MARK WEISS : Take Two . Madam Chairman, Board, staff and guests . My name's Mark Weiss, I'm Senior Vice President of Manufactured Housing Association for Regulatory Reform . MHARR is a Washington, DC - based national trade association representing the views and interests and producers of manufactured housing regulated by the US Housing and Urban Development . MHARR was founded in 1985 andUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **7** of **48** represents mostly small er and medium - sized manufacturers from around the United States . MHARR was pleased to participate in the advisory committe e convened by the Board to prepare accessibility recommendations for emergency transportable housing and appreciates the opportunity to offer comments here today . As an initial matter, we'd like to commend the Board and its staff for its inclusive and proactive approach that it took in developing these guidelines . The advisory committee that debated and developed the underlying recommendations for the guidelines now before you included a cross - section of all stakeholders and all relevant interests, inc luding representatives of both producers and users of emergency transportable housing . The process was open and transparent and allowed for the careful evaluation, examination and consideration of all viewpoints . Before addressing certain aspects of t he guidelines, it's important to note that manufactured housing, unlike other structures that have been used in the past for emergency transportable housing is subject to strict Federal construction and safety standards that are maintained and enforced by HUD in conjunction with approved state agencies . The HUD standards govern not only the construction of the home s in the factory , but also the installation of the home at the site as well as correction and related notifications post - installation . In these particulars, manufactured housing is unique among various types of ETA structures .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **8** of **48** As to the substance of the proposed rule MHARR would offer two principle comments . First, MHARR agrees with the decision not to include a guideline with respect to indoor environmental quality . As a member of the advisory committee , MHARR supported all the various recommendations with one exception - and that was a non - consensus statement regarding indoor environmental quality focused principally on formaldehyde va por . It's important to note that as the only type of ETH subject to comprehensive federal construction and safety regulation, manufactured homes are already required to meet federal criteria for formaldehyde emissions from plywood and particle board that did not apply to either recreational vehicles or parked models . These regulations adopted in 1984 were the first and for many years the only standard for formaldehyde emissions in residential structures and have proven quite effective in reducing the numb er of formaldehyde related complaints in manufactured homes to minimal levels . Any guideline different from the HUD standard for manufactured homes would not only be unnecessary given the success of the HUD standards and impending new standards under the Formaldehyde Standards For Composite Wood Pr oducts Act, as is noted in the preamble to the proposed rule, but would also raise serious compliance issues for producers that could impact their participation in programs providing ETH, to the detriment of all concerned . A nd what I'm talking about there is the possibility of conflicting standards that the producers might be subject to .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **9** of **48** Second, as MHARR stressed during deliberations, while we have no objections to the proposed guidelines as they relate to th e purchase of ETH by FEMA and other government entities, the proposed guidelines would not necessarily be appropriate for private sector home transactions and MHARR support for the recommendations of the advisory committee should not be construed as an end orsement of the same criteria as the basis for standards affecting the private sector including the HUD manufactured housing standards . And our reasons for that are two - fold : most fundamentally, the HUD code is a construction and safety code . A nd while accessibility is a relevant issue for private sector manufacturers and purchasers, manufacturers always strive to meet the needs of their customers HUD's regulatory authority under the Manufacture d Housing Construction and Safety Standards Ac t of 1974 is l imited to life safety issues and structural integrity . Furthermore, because manufactured housing is specifically recognized by statute as affordable housing , federal manufactured housing law requires that in order to be adopted any proposed federal sta ndard has to be both necessary from an objective standpoint and cost beneficial for the home - buying public . None of the criteria here have been evaluated from that perspective as that function was not within the mandate of the advisory committee, nor does MHARR believe that it would be appropriate to increase the cost of manufactured housing for this matter for the general public , w hen any need -- when any and all accessibility features needed or desired by private sector purchasers are alreadyUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **10** of **48** available from industry manufacturers, such as design options. Indeed the manufactured housing industry prides itself on being able to deliver the specific home features needed or wanted by any purchaser at any time at an affordable price that cannot be matched by any other type of residential construction . This system has worked well for decades without government mandates and should not be replaced by government directives that would impose needless costs on purchasers and simultaneously potentially exclude purch asers from achieving the American dream of homeownership . That said, Ms . Chairman, we support these recommendations and the guidelines as such within the context and if the board has any questions, we'd be happy to answer them . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you . Does the Board have any questions? N ot seeing any, thank you very much for your testimony . And next up is Kelly Buckland . >> KELLY BUCKLAND : Thank you, Madam Chair . The National Council of Independent Living is the longest running n ational, cross - disability , grass roots organization run by and for people with disabilities in the country . Founded in 1982, NCIL represents thousands of organizations and individuals including : Centers for Independent Living, Statewide Independent Livin g Councils and individuals with disabilities and other organizations that advocate for the human and civil rights of people with disabilities throughout the United States . There are currently about 700 physical locations doing businessUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **11** of **48** as centers for independent living across America actively providing I ndependent L iving services to people with disabilities . NCIL would like to thank the Access Board for convening this he aring to discuss the proposed accessibility guidelines to amend the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Architectural Barriers Act specifically to address the emergency transportable housing units provided in response to emergency needs for temporary h ousing . NCIL envisions a world in which people with disabilities are valued equally and participate fully . Housing and emergency preparedness are part of our concentrated advocacy work done around this nation . After the devastating events of 9/11 as well as the aftermath of many natural disasters around the nation, NCIL was at the forefront of educating local, state, and federal government agencies on how to effectively, safely and compassionately address those emergency situations for people with disabilities . As part of our national advocacy, we have a working relationship and meet regularly with the federal emergency management agency serving as experts in the area of providing technical assistance and guidance on creating better outcomes for pe ople with disabilities . Many of you know that centers for independent living were actively involved in recovery efforts after 9/11, after Katrina, after the mid - westernUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **12** of **48** floods, after the tornados in the south and on and on and on and we continue that w ork and we do have a MOU with FEMA that allows centers to access disaster recovery centers because we had trouble with that at some other sites . So NCIL and centers for independent living continue to play a real active role in this and we have a deep c ommitment to this as it affects people with disabilities in very meaningful and substantial ways . Temporary housing although it's temporary in nature I think most of you know that in many instances it turns out to be years instead of months or weeks as people with disabilities after recovery have a hard time finding accessible housing . So it's really important that this is done right . We agree with the proposed -- the proposed rules in response to these issues and in reviewing the guidelines NCIL p retty much supports them as written . However, we will provide some written comments later before the deadline for submission of written comments . We do think that even though it's temporary housing, it needs to be made fully accessible; it needs to be safe and it needs to be healthy . And there are some exceptions in the rules for ramps and slide - outs and we would just I guess voice some cautions with that in regards especially to the ramps, although I know that the reason that the exemption is give n in the rulesUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **13** of **48** because may not be possible to get a ramp according to the ADA guidelines on private property . We really do want to make sure that everything possible is tried before you give an exemption to make the ramp steeper . So that's one thing . An d then the second area of the concerns, the slide - outs and we agree with the committee's concern that the slide - out requirement may not meet the technical provisions for floor services and changes in levels, but again we'd just like to make sure that all p ossible options are tried before we just allow that exemption . And there's a number of things that could be done to try to level out that slope and stuff, so.. . we also agree that it's not necessary to amend the technical provisions for the floor services and changes in the levels, but as I said with the cautions that we mentioned . As a membership organization NCIL advances independent living and the rights of people with disabilities through consumer group and advocacy . It's through our membe rs that we receive and implement much of our advocacy work and especially when it comes to disaster recovery centers are on the ground and are involved in that . And this work includes and in fact is necessary during these emergency management conditions and we are committed to ensuring safe, accessible and effective outcomes during these times of need . We again thank the Access Board for the dedicated work as done to assist with this proposed rule, and with that, I'll stand open for any questi ons you might have .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **14** of **48** >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Kelly . Does the Board have any questions? N ot seeing any, I thank you for your testimony . >> KELLY BUCKLAND : Thank you . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Next on our list is Lois Starkey . >> LOIS STARKEY : Good morning, madam chairman, and members of the Board . My name is Lois Starkey, I'm Vice President for Regulatory Affairs at the Manufactured Housing Institute . Thank you very much for the opportunity to present comments before the Board on it s proposed rulemaking to amend the Americans with Disabilities Act and the architectural barriers act Accessibility Guidelines to specifically address emergency transportable units provided by FEMA . MHI's members represent all segments of the manufactured housing industry including retailers, community owners, lenders, suppliers, state manufactured housing associations and manufacturers who produce over 75 percent of the annual market share of manufactured housing . On behalf of MHI I would like to commend the Board and the members of the advisory committee that have worked over the last decade to develop and maintain accessibility standards to ensure that the structure and alteration of facilities covered by the ABA and the ADA are readily a ccessible and usable byUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **15** of **48** individuals with disabilities . While publicly funded buildings are required to meet these guidelines they are voluntary for the private sector and serve as a great resource for the housing industry where there is a growing marke t for accessible housing . MHI was pleased to serve as a member of the emergency transportable housing federal advisory committee established in 2007 to advise the Access Board on issues related to revising and updating accessibility guidelines for emer gency transportable housing and we note and are pleased that the proposals published in the Federal Register on June 18th are based on the committee's recommendations submitted to the Access Board . We note that while other federal agencies have updated th eir accessibility standard to the consistent with the Access Board board's guidelines for facilities designed or constructed with federal funds . HUD is still using the more outdated UFAS standards . MHI supports uniform voluntary guidelines for accessible housing that minimize duplicate and overlapping requirements and we urge HUD to update its accessibility standards for federally funded housing as soon as possible to include the proposed recommendations for emergency housing as proposed in last month's r ulemaking . While MHI plans to submit detailed written comments on the proposed rule, I would like to follow with our witness, Jayar Daily with the American Homestar Corporation and active member of MHI who would provide specific comments on the proposed r ule and he'll be calling in from Texas .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **16** of **48** >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Lois . Does the Board have any questions? G reat . >> OPERATOR : Just to let you know, Mary Troupe's line has rejoined . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you . I think our next speaker is going to be Jayar Daily . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR , can you locate Jayar Daily, and unmute when ready?

>> OPERATOR : I don't see Jayar Daily's line is in . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Okay . So let's go ahead and take Mary Troupe at this time . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR can you locate Mary Troupe and unmute when ready?

>> OPERATOR : Mary Troupe's line is open . >> MARY TROUPE : Thank you . Thank you for this hearing today and allowing us to speak on these rules on the emergency transportable housing . I am Mary Troupe . I was Executive Director of Mississippi Coalition for CitizensUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **17** of **48** with Disabilities and now just advocacy of Mississippi . I am also a member of FEMA's National Advisory Committee and I was very fortunate a nd privileged to serve on the committee looking at these recommendations . I would like to thank Marsha Mazz as one spoke earlier about keeping a tight ship and also the C hairman of our C ommittee, Robert Solomon , who also helped to keep us on task . As I said, I'm very privileged to be on this committee and with other individuals who are there . We did a lot of hard work . We did a lot of looking at different things and discussing different areas that were important to us . As an individual who was there during Katrina and working with individuals with disabilities in our state and all types of disasters, tornado, the flooding of last year and of course Katrina, I can tell you how very, very important accessible emergency housing is in these times when ev erything is wiped out . During Katrina, we had many obstacles that were placed when it came to emergency housing and it being accessible . What was called accessible was not accessible . These recommendations that you have before us has looked at everyt hing . Of course as technology grows and comes in every day, assistive technology, there are things that will need to be addressed in the future . But I am very pleased with what we as the committee came up with . I believe that it does also accessibili ty certainly more accessibility than we have had in the past . I again would like to tell all of those who served on theUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **18** of **48** committee and to thank the Board, the Access Board for pulling us together to look at this . It is extremely important in times of s tress such as these emergencies that our country has gone through and is going through now that individuals with disabilities do not have more stress put upon them because of the lack of accessibility . We looked, as I said in everything, from the knobs to open windows to the heights of the beds, to where plug - ins were accessible . As one mentioned before, the sink in the kitchen that could also be used for washing of the hair, and storage was very important also because in many cases such as Katrina this i s a long - term living situation for many individuals . And when everything is wiped out, accessible hotel rooms, accessible apartments and so forth, it was very difficult for us to find places for individuals where they could live, could live their lives, get back to some formality -- normality of their lives . And so I hope that everyone will see the hard work that this committee did and will appreciate what this committee did and will support these recommendations . Thank you very much . >> KAREN BRAI TMAYER : Thank you . Does the Board have any questions ? Do we have JAYAR Daily?

>> OPERATOR : Jayar Daily has rejoined . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Connect Mr . Daily then .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **19** of **48** >> OPERATOR : Jayar Daily, your line is open . >> JAYAR DAILY : Hello, Good morning . Has Lois Starkey given her remarks yet?

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Yes, she has . >> JAYAR DAILY : Okay . Great . So you're just ready for me to provide my testimony at this point?

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Yes, please . Go ahead .

>> JAYAR DAILY : Okay, Great . Good morning . My name is JAYAR Daily . I'm the Vice President of Operations with the American Homestar Corporation which is outside of Houston . We have manufacturing facilities in Texas and Alabama and retail locations in man y of the southwestern and southeastern states in the country . Our company builds modular and HUD code homes . We have been in business for over 40 years and during that time we have sold an access of 47,000 homes . In the last seven years we have also bee n extensively involved in building short - term emergency temporary housing and permanent replacement housing for families who have lost their homes to the hurricane that have devastated the gulf coast .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **20** of **48** In my position with the MHI I serve as the Vice Cha ir of the National Modular Housing Council and I'm also on the MHI Board of Directors and most recently in the past couple of years I'm the chairman of the MHI Disaster Housing Task Force which was established to work with FEMA regarding programs for emerg ency housing and recovery . I believe that Charlie Boyer is going to try to join me . He is our Vice President of Manufacturing Operations . And he would be the person who can answer any technical questions that you may have . Recently, MHI has been working directly with FEMA to address accessibility issues for emergency temporary housing built to the HUD code which is the manufacturing code that we follow in the industry . And earlier this year FEMA issued a solicitation to temporary housing unit that they refer to as THUs, including homes that are intended for placement on individual sites . That is the site where the people live, where their homes had been . Responding to concerns about the feasibility of building UFAS compliant houses under 5 00 square feet, FEMA responded quickly and changed the maximum size requirements to provide more flexibility for homes required to meet the UFAS standards; we really appreciated that . Also, we note that a number of specifications in the current FEMA solic itation are consistent with the guidelines proposed by the Access Board in its proposed rulemaking . And that solicitation by the way I believe is due today at noon . So good luck to anybodyUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **21** of **48** who hasn't finished theirs . The proposed rule amends scoping and technical provisions of the ADA and the ABA in order to provide emergency transportable housing required to provide mobility features in a more timely and efficient manner . In general, they are more flexible and prescriptive than the current requireme nts under UFAS and will provide certainty at the design and manufacturing stage and ensure that families with disabilities who lose their homes are provided with emergency housing that best suits their disability - related needs . For example, the current ABA and ADA guidelines permit grab bars to be admitted at the time of construction where the walls are reinforced to support the installation of grab bars when they're needed at a later time by an occupant that has a disab ility . The advisory committee re commended a grab bar in water closets, bathtubs and showers be mandatory for emergency housing required to provide mobility features in order to ensure disaster survivors have access to housing quickly and more efficiently . FEMA already stipulates that ho mes required to meet UFAS standards must be constructed with grab bars . The proposed scoping provisions require accessible emergency transportable housing units with mobility and communication to be provided in accordance with section 504 of the rehabilit ation act of the ADA and the Stafford Act which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability . The proposed scoping requirements will ensure that homes built and purchased by FEMA will meet the needs ofUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **22** of **48** individuals with disabilities based on assesse d needs and hopefully eliminate inefficient costly production of accessible units that may not be needed or utilized . FEMA has been taking this approach in recent years requiring specified percentage of its total bid solicitation to the UFAS compliance . This allows flexibility to place housing on individual and group site based on individual needs . While the proposed guidelines recognize that a one size fits all approach is not always beneficial given the range of housing needs and types for people with disabilities, it can be challenging for manufactures to utilize manufacturing concept to design practices to rely on a n econom ic scale and uniform assembl y line techniques . Therefore, MHI recommends that consideration be given to providing more opportunit ies for workforce training and education for accessible design and construction practices . Personally --

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : JAYAR , you are reached the 5 - minute mark . >> JAYAR DAILY : Okay . Well, thank you . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Great . Thank you very much for your testimony . Are there any questions for JAYAR ? N ot hearing any, our next speaker will be Dominic Marinelli . >> OPERATOR : Dominic's line is open . >> DOMINIC MARINELLI : Oh, thank you . This was earlier than IUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **23** of **48** expected, but thank you very much . I hope everybody can hear me . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Yes . Thank you . >> DOMINIC MARINELLI : Listen - I'm very honored to be asked to testify and my name is Dominic Marinelli . I am the Vice President for Accessibility Ser vices for United Spinal Association, so those of you that might know our name used to be Eastern Paralyzed Veterans Association . The organization has been around since 1946 . It was established by paralyzed veterans after World War II . And I was on the c ommittee and really felt like I gained more than I contributed from the other committee members and I wanted to say that I certainly benefited from some of the manufactured housing folks in FEMA and the Department of Justice . My particular work and I went through all of my past notes was to develop some type of compromise requirement, and so the specific things that I was tasked with working I think will work for people with disabilities that need this accommodation in these types of an emergency and f or the builders of these transportable housing . So my specific task was to work on some allowances for ramps where ramps could not be installed at the perfect 1 to 12 slope in tight situations where there are site constraints . So our objective was to provide some flexibility in that .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **24** of **48** And so if you just think about that as we go from the exterior to the inside of the unit, flexibility on ramp design was followed up by some logic in how we were approaching our work in a kitchen . So instead of the UFAS dedicated 30 - inch work surface, we just specified that the kitchen table could also be used to achieve the work surface required in the kitchen, saving valuable space . So I did want to mention that and just a few of my favorite things about the r ule . We worked hard on language specific to electrical receptacles and electrical outlets . It's very hard to organize them in a kitchen and maintain 12 inches off of any obstruction . So we specified logical areas for electrical receptacles and jus t different things like that . And moving on into the unit, part of our task was to really look at the roll - in shower and the bathing and bathing facilities and fixtures in the bathroom . And so we provided some flexibility in those areas as well . Y ou know, again, specifying roll - in showers and a folding seat which is veryUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **25** of **48** valuable and that's what I would want anybody to take out of that conversation is the folding seat and roll - in shower . Because we thought it would give the greatest flexibility . So as we move on and I know I'm up against my time, going through the unit we just went through the kitchen and my contribution to the kitchen is the bathroom and just wanted to talk about the bedrooms for a minute because one of my favorite things here was the idea that we would have clear floor space for parallel approach, that 30 by 48 inches on one side of the bed and that that would be connected on accessible route from other components, other areas of the housing unit . So I wanted to just highligh t those areas that I had worked directly on and would be happy to answer any questions before my time runs out . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Dom . Are there any questions for Dom? N ot hearing any, we thank you for your testimony . And at this time --

>> DOMINIC MARINELLI : Thank you very much . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : You're welcome . At this time, we're going to take a 5 - minute break? O kay . We're going to a 20 - minute break . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR , can you keep us connected, please?US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **26** of **48** (Break)

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you . I think we're going to go ahead and we have shortened the break a little bit so that we can move forward and I did want to let everyone know that J ayar 's complete remar ks are going to be added to the transcript so that we -- since he hit the 5 - minute mark a little early . Our next speaker I believe will be speaking to us on the phone and that's Charles Tubre . >> OPERATOR : Charles, your line is open . >> CHARL ES TUBRE : Good morning . Yes . That's right . Charles Tubre . Good morning . My name is Charles Tubre and I work for the Advocacy Center in New Orleans, Louisiana . The Advocacy Center was started in 1979 . It is the agency designated by the State of Louisiana pursuant to federal law to protect and advocate for the rights of people with disabilities in Louisiana . In the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, the Advocacy Center assisted hundreds of people with disabilities in FEMA trailer parks, hotels and other temporary locations in finding accessible housing . I have used a wheelchair for mobility since 1955 . I have worked my entire life to increase the ability of people with disabilities to access public facilities and government programs . I eva cuated from my home in New Orleans just prior toUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **27** of **48** Katrina and was not able to return to it for many months . I consider myself very well qualified to testify about the needs of people with disabilities for accessible temporary housing in emergencies . I served on the advisory committee that made recommendations to this Board for amending the guidelines to address the accessibility of emergency transportable housing . I testify today, both as an individual and on behalf of the Advocacy Center and the clie nts that we serve . Unfortunately, we cannot support the proposed regulations because the proposed scoping provisions , which depart from those the advisory committee recommended , do not establish a minimum percentage of accessible units in group sites . If the scoping provision were changed, we would wholeheartedly support the proposed regulation . It is vitally important for the agencies charged with provision of emergency housing in emergencies to have standards to follow that will make that housing ac cessible to people with disabilities, and with the exception of the scoping provisions, this regulation accomplishes that goal . The regulation must provide that facilities that contain emergency transportable housing have an adequate minimum percentage of accessible units . FEMA is the agency most likely to construct or lease facilities that have emergency transportable housing . After Katrina and Rita, FEMA opened dozens of trailer parks in Louisiana and Mississippi . The Advocacy Center assistedUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **28** of **48** nu merous people with disabilities who were still in emergency shelters and hotels months after the storm, who were unable to move into FEMA trailer parks because these FEMA trailer parks had no accessible trailers . This meant that people with mobility impai rments were trapped in the emergency shelters for much longer periods of time than people without disabilities, or they were left in hotel rooms in extremely cramped quarters with no cooking facilities simply because FEMA had neglected to provide accessibl e trailers in federally constructed trailer parks . The Advocacy Center and the National Center for Law and Economic Justice had to sue FEMA to provide accessible trailers and to en sure that trailer parks conform ed to UFAS guidelines . The proposed regulations would give the Access Board's stamp of approval to the state of affairs . Following Katrina and Rita, FEMA officials contended that said FEMA was assessing the needs of each household and making housing decisions based on this assessment . Howe ver, because FEMA did not require a minimum percentage of accessible units in its trailer parks, these needs were not met . Trailer parks are planned and developed over a period of weeks following a disaster . The situation with disaster victims are in constant state of flux with some people finding housing with relatives, and others moving to other cities and states, and some learning that they can return to pre - disaster housing . The precise needs, housing needs of the population will need to populate the trailer park cannot be accurately determined in advance .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **29** of **48** The trailer parks created after Hurricane s Katrina and Rita remained populated for several years after the storm . Katrina struck in August 2005, and FEMA closed the last trailer park in mid - 2008 . While the trailer parks were in existence, people moved in, they moved out . A minimum percentage of trailers needs to be accessible so that they will be available to later residents as well as those who move in initially . While these facilitie s are temporary they are not necessarily so short - term as to do away with the need for the minimum accessibility requirement . Thus the Advocacy Center believes that it is critically important for these standards to contain a minimum number of accessibl e units in group sites . We agree that trailers placed near private homes or in other locations to meet the needs of specific individuals should meet the needs of those individuals and there is no need for scoping requirements there . The Advocacy Cente r -- the advisory committee recommended that 10% of emergency transportable housing units at group sites be accessible to people with mobility impairments . We noted that the prevalence of the mobility impairment s in the population nationally is 8.2%, whil e FEMA ’s experience in recent disasters put the numbers higher, 12 to 14% generally, and 18 to 20% in Hurricane s Katrina and Rita . There are many reasons why the percentage of individuals who need accessible emergency housing after a disaster may be large r than the national figure f or prevalence of mobility impairment s . The prevalenceUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **30** of **48** of mobility impairment is larger in some areas of the country . In addition, in all disasters, people who are poor are most likely to lack the resources to provide emergency housing on their own, and poverty is closely correlated with disability . While t he advisory committee recommended 10% as the highest minimum number , t he Advocacy Center would prefer a higher percentage and we recommend 14% -- that the Interagency Coordin ating Council recommended in the 2010 report . I would like to point out that the Housing Authority in New Orleans has recently agreed based on estimated need in the New Orleans area to make 10% of its newly constructed units accessible to people with mobi lity impairments . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Charles, I'm going to have to stop you . You have reached the 5 - minute mark . Thank you very much . >> CHARLES TUBRE : Thank you very much . Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the proposed regulations . We wish we could support them , b ut we strongly believe that the proposed scoping provisions for facilities containing emergency transport able housing would represent a big step backwards for the rights of people with disabilities . We thank y ou very much . I appreciate all the work that you've done in this area and we hope you will consider our recommendations for an adjustment in the scoping provisions, and we can then enthusiastically embrace the recommendations .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **31** of **48** >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Th ank you . >> CHARLES TUBRE : Thank you . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Our next speaker will be Cary LaCheen . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR , locate Cary LaCheen.

>> OPERATOR : No, I don't show that Cary's on the call . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Okay . Do you have a Robert Solomon?

>> OPERATOR : No . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Chairman, did you want to go back just to open? W e don't have any walk - ins . >> OPERATOR : Did you say Robert Solomon?

>> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Yes, OPERATOR . >> OPERATOR : Ok, I do have Robert Solomon . Let me open his line . Robert, your line's open .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **32** of **48** >> ROBERT SOLOMON . Okay . Thank you . I was getting ready to send an e - mail . Good morning . My name is Robert Solomon, a Division Manager with NFPA . I app reciate the opportunity to offer some testimony today on this important rulemaking issue . In my 26 years with NFPA I've had the opportunity to be involved with many interesting and challenging projects and I have to say near the top of this list is the privilege I've had to chair the advisory committee whose recommendations we have been hearing about this morning . I would like to thank the members of the advisory committee who worked on these issues in 2007 and 2008 . It was a great pleasure and hon or to work with a l l of you . Our group worked diligently over a 14 - month period to refine and establish recommendations that were issued in the NPRM on June 18th of this year . I fully support the recommendations that have been put forth by the Acces s Board . The use of emergency transportable housing units in disasters is a feasible and prompt method of getting a roof over your head and a semblance of normalcy back . This rule is intended to address these types of units and to further enhance program s that FEMA has been managing for many years .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **33** of **48** The U.S . is no stranger to natural and human caused disasters and events . Whether a fire destroyed someone's home, a tornado devastates a community, a wild fire wreaks havoc on many hundreds of homes, or a hurricane causes mass evacuation of many tens of thousands of people, the resilience of our fellow citizens is almost always shown in the phrase : "we will be back and we will rebuild." I have never experienced a personal disaster of any significant prop ortion . I can only imagine the feeling of being displaced from your home for any period of time, let alone for weeks or months or perhaps years . I also can only imagine difficulty of trying to adjust to a physical environment which introduces challenges to everyday items like bathing or cooking or getting into bed at night . I n some cases, even coming back to your own property and getting into your house, even a temporary dwelling . The ETH federal advisory committee was formed in 2007 to look at issue s and problems encountered in the 2005 hurricane season relating to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita . These events alone challenge d the resources of the Federal government to not only locate and deploy emergency housing, some which remained in use for years, b ut also to provide a usable, feasible housing unit option for displaced residents who may have needed one or more accessible features . A retired representative from Minnesota is quoted as saying, "The purpose of the ADA was to provide clear and compreh ensive national standards to eliminate discrimination against individuals with disabilities . As a result,US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **34** of **48** individuals with disabilities are not able to live in their homes and have access to new careers . ” Once the proposed rules on emergency transportabl e housing are finalized, people with disabilities will also have the chance to live in the temporary home away from home as well . The applicability of implementation of the proposed rules is critical in 2012 . In just the last year, 81 major disaster declarations have been issued by FEMA . A variety of events including an earthquake in Virginia, an eastern seaboard hurricane and tropical storm, alluvial coastal and inland flooding, tornados, landslides, mudslides, and recently, wild fires have plagued t he U.S . and confronted the resources of FEMA . The roles and responsibilities of local and state governments, tribal and territorial governments, regional compacts and the federal government are by and large delineated in the readiness components that make up the emergency response strategy of local planners for these events . The private sector and NGO community also have a role in responding to and assisting government agencies so long as they are part of the planning component . Providing early warnin g, rescuing, moving and relocating victims of disaster s is a part of this overall strategy . And while the ordeal of being away from your home is difficult enough, being in a temporary home you cannot easily gain access, maneuver without difficulty once inside, prepare meals or get into bed without trouble are among the issues that adapted an accessibility ETH units can offer to the resident . PPD - 8, FIOP, MNS, ODIC, E M PG, NDRF as well as aUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **35** of **48** myriad of various acronyms are now a common part of the emergency planning lexicon . Since May of 2011, FEMA's EMPG - Emergency Managem ent Performance Grant Program, has been emphasizing the importance and need for inclusive planning at all levels . I n FEMA Information Bulletin 361 issued in May of 2011, FEMA says “ H omeland Security and emergency managers at all levels are to plan for the whole community by integrating and coordinating emergency preparedness, response and recovery for children and adults with disabilities and others with access and functional needs . ” Accessible housing resources are among the examples listed in the information bulletin in order to help satisfy that goal . Likewise, the NDRF, National Disaster Recovery Framework issued in September of 2011, outlines and defines the roles and respons ibilities to enable effective recovery support to disaster impacted states . Temporary fixes or bridges as described in the NDRF offer transition to permanent measures . Keeping the residents in their own neighborhood by offering ETHUs on their own propert y is one solution rather than relocating residents to centralized sites or locations . This allows them to have an at - home feeling, watch their property and supervise reconstruction of a damaged or destroyed home . And perhaps more importantly maintain the continuity and familiarity of a neighborhood . By supporting and accepting these changes much progress will be madeUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **36** of **48** toward bridging the resident back to the permanent housing situation . Singer Stevie Wonder , among others , is attributed to the quote, i f you don't ask, you don't get . Today, I urge you and ask you to support the proposed rule . Let's get the right kind of temporary housing accommodation for the right circumstance . Thank you very much for your time this morning . >> KAREN BRAITMAY ER : Thank you, Robert . And I also wanted to acknowledge and thank you in particular for your position as chairing the advisory committee . Do we have Cary on the line yet?

>> OPERATOR : It was Terry, correct?

>> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Cary; C A R Y . >> OPERATOR : No, Cary's not on the line . >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Last name is LaCheen . >> OPERATOR : No . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : At this time, we have an opportunity if there is anybody who was not on the sign - up list and wishes to make pu blic testimony, weUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **37** of **48** have an opportunity for that to happen at this time . >> OPERATOR : If you would like to testify, please press star 1, if you're on the phone . Again, press star - 1 if you would like to testify .. . and I don't show that Cary LaCheen is on the all.

>> ROSE MARIE : Thank you operator . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Is there anyone who has previously testified who would like to expand on their testimony at this time?

>> OPERATOR : If anyone would like to expand on their testimony, pleas e press star - 1 . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Lois, why don't we take you ?

>> LOIS STARKEY : I just wanted to finish JAYAR 's testimony because it addresses an issue that I know there was much debate on during the advisory committee deliberations and it has to do with the ramp proposal . MHI supports the proposal and exists as an exception to the existing ramp proposal . We do think that there was -- I know there was a lot of discussion about the height of the manufactured housing when you have to keep th e tires on and we did an informal survey of our members, retailers and manufacturers, and the average elevation is 32 to 36 inches when the tires are not removed . So we do believe that theUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **38** of **48** proposal will allow more people to remain on their own property wh ile their permanent home is being repaired or replaced and it will reduce the area needed for construction by a substantial amount . And I do want to point out that our work with FEMA, we know that they work very hard to make sure that individuals who h ave special needs and I think they have learned this from Katrina, get the attention and get the home that they need . So it will be up to FEMA to make sure that the individual receiving this home with an elevation -- with a ramp that has a higher elevatio n will be able to -- will want this . They aren't going to provide a home to somebody who feels that they can't use that extra rise efficiently . So I just want to make that point, that I think there is a -- these proposals provide for the opportunity f or everybody to get the home that they want . So thank you very much . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Lois . Was there anyone else who wished to either expand on their testimony or provide new testimony?

>> OPERATOR : I do have someone on the phon e that would like to do so, would you like me to open their line?

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : And, yes .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **39** of **48** >> OPERATOR : Charles Tubre, your line is open . >> CHARLES TUBRE : Thank you very much . This is Charles Tubre . Just to conclude, I had another brief statement that please note that requiring a minimum percentage of accessible units in no way limits FEMA's flexibility to provide emergency transportable housing units with mobility features based on the needs of appli cants . Housing that is accessible to people with mobility impairments is fully usable and accessible to persons without such impairments and FEMA is free to exceed any minimum percentage contained in the regulation . Now, to specific features that were addressed by the Board made recommendations, one, kitchen features should provide room for people in wheelchairs to roll under the sink . It is my understanding that the current regulations provide for a front approach to kitchen sinks by a person in a wh eelchair as well as sufficient knee clearance so that the wheelchair will fit under the kitchen sink . The proposed emergency transportable housing regulations do not contain a different standard exception insofar they eliminate the exception for removable under sink cabinets . If my understanding is incorrect and there is no standard requirement that kitchen sinks be approached from the front and that a wheelchair be able to roll under the sink, there needs to be a specific standard that requires this . In addition to the water spray unit required by the proposed regulations, I suggest that kitchen sinks in emergency transportable housing be required to beUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **40** of **48** fitted with a swiveling goose neck faucet which increases its versatility and movability by people with disabilities . For many people with disabilities, bathing is an arduous activity in being able to wash one's hair and perform other tasks in the kitchen is very useful . While a water spray unit is also very useful for some tasks, it is hard to operat e for a person whose hands and arms may be affected by a disability . The water spray unit would require good use of one's hands . If you don't have an assistant and that would be impossible to wash one's hair at the sink . If the goose neck is provided wi th a swivel feature, then one can lean over and have the water running and wash their hair without assistance . The standard for maneuvering clearances in the bedroom, we also would like to express appreciation for the new standard for a bedroom lightin g control being able to adjust one's lighting from the bed or a person's ability to transfer in and out of bed is limited is one of the things that adds greatly to a person's independence . Again, we thank the committee for their work . It is a pleasure working with the committee under Mr . Solomon's guidance and thank you again for the opportunity to speak to the issues at hand this morning . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Charles . Do we have anyone else on the line, Rose?

>> OPERATOR : Cary LaCheen has joined . Would you like me to open?US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **41** of **48** >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : Yes, please . >> OPERATOR : Cary, your line is open . >> CARY LACHEEN : Hi . Good morning . Should I start my testimony?

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Yes . That would be great . Welcome . >> CARY LACHEEN : Okay . Good morning, everyone . My name is Cary LaCheen and I am a senior staff attorney at the National Center for Law and Economic Justice . And we were co - counsel with the Advocacy Center of Louisiana in a class action la wsuit brought against FEMA after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita on behalf of displaced people with disabilities who were not provided with accessibility temporary housing . That is our connection to this issue and why we're testifying . We have been workin g in the years since the case was settled to make sure that FEMA has adequate policies and procedures in place to serve people with disabilities in future disasters . We support developing specific standards in the ADA and ABA guidelines for emergency transportable housing .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **42** of **48** But we are strongly opposed to some of the standards that have been proposed, particularly the scoping requirements for housing units with mobility features . The proposed standard will not ensure that people with disabilities get the accessible temporary housing that they need, and that is why we're opposed to it . The current scoping requirement for dwelling units at facilities provided or paid for by agencies other than HUD, in other words, FEMA is that 5% of the housing units in a facility, but no fewer than one unit, must be accessible to people with mobility impairments . The Access Board's advisory committee recommended that the minimum scoping requirement be doubled to 10% . But instead, the Access Board is proposi ng to eliminate a numerical minimum entirely and replace it with language saying that agencies must provide housing with mobility features, quote, in accordance with regulations implementing Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, Stafford Act, and the Amer icans with Disabilities Act regulations . We think this is a terrible idea for several reasons . Number one, FEMA officials and officials of other agencies if these ranks are relevant to them, who consult these standards during a disaster response won't have any idea what to do or how many accessible housing units to put at group sites .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **43** of **48** Number two, the regulations don't have any proposed numerical scoping requirements -- I'm sorry . The regulations referred to in this proposed standard don't have num erical scoping requirements . And as far as we know, the relevant agencies like FEMA are not planning to revise their regulations to add scoping requirements . The Americans with Disabilities Act doesn't even apply to FEMA programs and services or progr ams and services of other federal agencies . We have no idea why that's mentioned in the proposed standard . We assume that what this language means is that the proposed standard is basically referring to the general antidiscrimination standard in the r egulations and regs that say that programs and services have to be accessible to and usable to and by people with disabilities . The whole point of ADA and ABA Accessibility Guidelines is to take general requirements for accessibility and nondiscriminat ion that are in the regulation and tell federal agencies what specifically they're supposed to do to achieve accessibility . Guidelines that just refer back to the general regulations don't do this and are basically circular and meaningless . We think the proposed standard is unworkable and ineffective . The purpose of a numerical scoping standard is to ensure that facilities withUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **44** of **48** lots of units have at least some accessible units . A scoping standard that basically says don't discriminate, give people what they need, which is I think what you're after with this proposed standard, doesn't ensure that group sites will have any accessible units . It's also based on a very unrealistic assumption that FEMA and other agencies will know what households nee d before group sites are set up or while they're being set up and before people actually show up at group sites . That's not how it works after Katrina and Rita and we don't think it's likely to work that way in the future . H ouseholds do not all apply for housing assistance at the same time and they don't all apply immediately after a disaster . Group sites are set up before FEMA knows what families will live there and even before FEMA has received applications from everyone who will end up living there . If group sites are not required to have a minimum number of accessible units, some, at least some, if not many, are likely to have no units at all in the beginning and then when a family shows up that needs an accessible unit, it may have to wait wee ks or months until one is delivered . In fact, during the time it takes --US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **45** of **48** >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Cary, I need to let you know that you have met the 5 - minute time limit . >> CARY LACHEEN : Okay . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : So if you would just conclude your comments with just a few more sentences, that would be great . >> CARY LACHEEN : Okay . I was going to talk about the various rationales that were offered for this standard . We think all of them are, you know, silly, and don't really supp ort the standard . We believe the standard should be that 15% of units at group sites be accessible to people with mobility impairments . The Interagency Council R eport from 2010 says that FEMA and HUD were working on developing a 14% standard . That 's where we get the 15% standard from . If you're worried about applying a scoping requirement to private homes, the scoping requirement should exclude private homes and for private homes the standard should just say that people with disabilities should get what they need . That's what the advisory committee recommended and that's what we think the agency should do in the standard, the Access Board .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **46** of **48** So I'm happy to answer any questions if there are any . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Cary . Doe s the Board have any questions? N ot hearing any, I thank you for your testimony . >> CARY LACHEEN : Thank you . Bye - bye . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : So are there any remaining individuals who'd like to testify who have not yet done so?

>> OPERATOR : I do have someone who had cued up to go ahead and testify; would you like me to open their line?

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Yes, please . >> OPERATOR : Mary Lamielle, your line is open . >> MARY LAMIELLE : Thank you . Yes . Hi . My name is Mary Lamielle and I'm Executive Director for Environmental Health Strategies, we're a nonprofit - based organization in New Jersey that addresses chemical, electrical, and other types of sensitivities and reactions to environmental exposures . I w as a member of the Emergency Transportable Housing Advisory C ommittee . I'm going to send comments and I wanted to make a very brief statement . I don'tUS Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **47** of **48** support the proposed regulations and specifically, I don't support it because I believe that they have failed to adequately address indoor environmental quality issues and the emergency transportable housing accessibility concerns for those disabled by chemicals/electrical sensitivities and to the group I would say what about us? What about those of us up to 6% of the population with these disabilities whose needs need to be addressed in these same emergencies? So I intend to -- I'm not going to make a more detailed comment now . I'll send something prior to the deadline . But I'm just going to leave that there with the folks who are there and on the phone . Thank you . >> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you, Mary . Are there any questions for Mary? N ot hearing any, do we have anyone remaining on the line?

>> OPERATOR As a reminder, if you'd like to make a testimony, please press star - 1 . One moment to see if we have any other testimony interested over the phone . I'm showing none over the phone.

>> KAREN BRAITMAYER : Thank you . I thank everyone for attending today, and I believe that concludes our hearing .US Access Board Public Hea ring:

Emergency Transportable Housing NPRM Washington, DC Unofficial Transcripts July 11, 2012 Page **48** of **48** >> ROSE MARIE BUNALES : OPERATOR , our hearing is concluded . Please disconnect all lines . Thank you for your assistance . (Conclude)