U.S . DEPARTMEN T O F TRANSPORTATIO N OFFIC E O F HEARING S ^ LITIGATIO NSCHEDULIN GCONFERENC E '^f'^lj^-i"

I NTH E MATTE ROF : FEDERA L AVIATIO N ADMINISTRATION ,

Complainant ,

V

. -^o o i n C O ^S ^ nnZD m



### - 59 0 C O FA ANo . CP10EA000 4 FDM S No . FAA-2011-029 0



### 7 ^ 

# 0 EMPIR E FLIGH T ACADEMY , Responden t

Monday , Novembe r 21 , 201 1
Th e above-entitle dmatte r cam e o n fo r hearin g vi a teleconference , pursuan t t o notice , a t 10:3 0 a.m . BEFORE : TH E HONORABL E J.E . Administrativ e La wJudg e SULLIVAN ,



# RE C 0EC- 2 2W 

# HEARIN G DOCKE T

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

. GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE.

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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co mAPPEARANCES :

O nBehal f o f th e Complainant , th e Federa l Aviatio nAdministration :

ZACHAR YM . BERMAN , ESQ . Of : Offic e o f th e Regiona l Counsel , AEA- 7 Easter nRegio n 1 Aviatio nPlaza , Roo m56 1 Jamaica , Ne wYor k 1143 4 (718 ) 553-325 8

O nBehal f o f th e Respondent . Empir e Fligh t Academy :

GREGOR YS . WINTON , ESQ . of : Th e Aviatio nLa wFir m On e Researc hCourt , Suit e 45 0 Rockville , Marylan d 2085 0 (301 ) 294-855 0



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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.con iP-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G- S 10:3 0 a.m . JUDG E SULLIVAN : We ' r e o nth e 4 recor di nth e matte r o f Empir e Fligh t Academy . 5 Thi s i s FA

ADocke t No . CP10EA0004 . Toda yi s 6 Monday , Novembe r 21 , 2011 , an d th e partie s 7 hav e convene d fo r a litigatio nschedulin g conferenc e bytelephone .

T h e Federa l Aviatio n 1 0 Administratio ni s represente d byZachar y 1 1 Berman , th e attorne yo f record . Empir e Fligh t 1 2 Academyi s represente dbyit s attorne yo f 1 3 record , Gregor yS . Winton . 1 4 Than k yo u al l fo r joinin g u s thi s 1 5 morning . D o I stil l hav e everybod yo nth e 1 6 line ? I jus t hear d a bus ysignal . 1 7 MR . WINTON : Thi s i s Mr . Winton . 1 8 I' mrigh t here . 1 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An d Mr . Berman ? 2 0 MR . BERMAN : Here . 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dI' mpresumin g 2 2 I stil l hav e th e cour t reporter ?


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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.con i1 COUR T REPORTER : Yes , ma'am .

2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Counse l i t 3 appear s tha t th e matte r ha s bee nreferre dt o 4 m ydocke t byJudg e Goodwin' s agreement , an da n 5 Orde r o f Reassignmen t wa s recentl yfiled . 6 Hopefully , yo u bot hreceive d that . 7 MR . WINTON : Yes . 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I hav e ha d 9 a chanc e t o revie wth e entir e file . S o i t 1 0 appear s tha t ther e ar e a coupl e o f thing s tha t 1 1 w e nee dt o discus s an d the ntalkin g abou t 1 2 settin g a tria l date . 1 3 S o I ' mgoin g t o star t wit hMr . 1 4 Berma nfirst . Mr . Berman , ha s al l discover y 1 5 bee ndon e a t thi s poin t fro m you r perspective ? 1 6 MR . BERMAN : W e stil l coul duse , I 1 7 don' t thin k there' s anymor e discover yi s 1 8 necessary . W e could , i f there' s tim e allowe d 1 9 tha t w e coul d d o som e more , bu t I don' t thin k 2 0 anymor e discover yis . 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I wan t t o mak e 2 2 sur e tha t I don' t cu t yo u off . Ar e yo u


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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 finishe dwit hyou r answer , sir ? Mr . Berman ? MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Ar e yo u finishe d wit hyou r answer , sir ? Mr . Berman , I can' t hea r you . MR . BERMAN : Ca nyo u hea r me ?

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . Th e questio nis , ar e yo u finishe d wit hyoux " answer , sir ?

MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . An d i n term s o f th e exchang e o f witnes s list s an d thos e kind s o f things , hav e yo u an dMr . Winto n exchange dwitnes s list s an dcomplete d discover yfro mtha t perspective ?

MR . BERMAN : No . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Hav e yo u engage di nanykin do f stipulation s o r hav e yo u conferre dprivatel yfo r th e purpos e o f stipulation ?

MR . BERMAN : No . JUDG ESULLIVAN : Okay
. Hav eyo u

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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2 originall yyo u wer e plannin g t o take ? 3 MR . BERMAN : I have , yes . 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Hav e yo u receive d 5 al l th e necessar yanswer s tha t yo u ha dhope d 6 t o receiv e i nanyreques t fo r interrogatorie s 7 o r othe r kind s o f discover ytool s tha t yo u 8 hav e serve d upo nth e respondent ? 9 MR . BERMAN : I don' t believ e I'v e 1 0 serve ddiscover yyet . There' s nothin g that' s 1 1 owin g m e tha t I haven' t received . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Fro m you r 1 3 client' s perspective , Mr . Berman , ho wman y 1 4 witnesse s d o yo u thin k yo u woul d nee dt o cal l 1 5 a t thi s poin t i f th e entir e cas e wen t t o 1 6 trial ? An d ho wlon g d o yo u thin k th e tria l 1 7 woul dnee d t o las t assumin g tha t yo u calle d 1 8 th e witnesse s an dthe ywer e subjec t t o 1 9 vigorou s cross-examination? 2 0 MR . BERMAN : I thin k th e hearing s 2 1 shoul db e n o mor e tha non e day . I hav e on e 2 2 inspecto r witnes s an d on e pilo t wh o fle wth e


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2 wel l a s th e companytha t owne dth e aircraf t 3 an dlease di t ou t t o Empir e Fligh t Academy . 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dwhe nyo u say 5 th e company , I tak e i t you'r e talkin g abou t 6 th e compan ycalle dClyd e Ai r Leasing ?

MR . BERMAN : Correct . JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dar e yo u 9 talkin g abou t callin g a perso nfro mtha t 1 0 corporatio nt o com e an d testif yi nadditio nt o 1 1 th e on e inspecto r an d on e pilot ? 1 2 MR . BERMAN : Yes . 1 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Mr . 1 4 Winton , whydon' t I tur nt o you . Le t m e as k 1 5 yo u a serie s o f question s tha t ar e ver y 1 6 simila r t o th e one s I jus t aske d Mr . Berman , 1 7 MR . WINTON : Sure . 1 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : O nbehal f o f you r 1 9 clien t hav e yo u finishe d al l th e discover y 2 0 tha t yo u ha d hope d t o tak e i nthi s case ? 2 1 MR . WINTON : I have , You r Honor . 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Hav e yo u


### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgros s co m• 1 ha da chanc e t o tal k t o Mr . Berma nabou t any

2 kind s o f stipulation s tha t th e partie s migh t 3 ente r int o t o limi t th e area s o r th e scop e o f 4 disput e i nthi s case ? 5 MR . WINTON : We'v e ha dsevera l 6 conversation s a s yo usa w fro mth e file. Thi s 7 fil e ha s bee ngoin g o nfo r som e time . W e hav e 8 no t ye t entere d int o stipulation s though , bu t 9 I inten dt o d o so . W e inten d t o d o s o prio r 1 0 t o th e hearin g i nthi s case . 1 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Well , hav e 1 2 yo u ha d a chanc e t o obtain , t o th e bes t o f 1 3 you r ability , anyan d al l response s t o any 1 4 discover ytha t you'v e submitte d suc ha s a 1 5 reques t fo r production , interrogatories , tha t 1 6 kin do f thing ? 1 7 MR . WINTON : I have , yes . I woul d 1 8 ask , I guess , i f I ca nnow , You r Honor , th e 1 9 identit yo f th e thre e witnesses , althoug hI 2 0 believ e I hav e them . Bu t i f w e ca nge t tha t 2 1 o nth e record , I thin k i t woul dresolv e any 2 2 outstandin g discover yissues . NEA LR

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. 20005-370 1 (202 ) 234-443 3 www.nealrgross.co m1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I'l l pu t

2 tha t o nmylittl e t o d o lis t fo r a moment , bu t 3 I wan t t o as k yo u a coupl e othe r questions . 4 MR . WINTON : Sure . 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Hav e yo u ha da 6 chance , apparentl ynot , t o exchang e you r 7 witnes s lis t an d t o exchang e copie s o f any exhibit s fo r trial ?

MR . WINTON : W e have , an dothe r 1 0 tha nth e reques t I ha djus t made , whic hI 1 1 probabl yalread yhav e th e identities , 1 2 everythin g ha s bee nexchange dt o myknowledge . 1 3 Yes . 1 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Ho wmuc h 1 5 time , i nyou r opinion , woul d thi s tria l take ? 1 6 An dho wman ywitnesse s ar e yo u plannin g t o 1 7 cal l o nbehal f o f you r client ? 1 8 MR . WINTON : Assumin g tha t th e FA A 1 9 woul dcal l thei r thre e identifie d b yMr . 2 0 Berma nthi s morning , I woul d anticipat e 2 1 probabl ythre e myself . An dI woul dexpec t 2 2 the na t leas t tw o days . Bu t I thin k w e


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1 wouldn' t nee d muc hmor e tha nthat . 2 I f i t wen t t o a thir dday , i t ma y 3 b e becaus e yo u woul d as k fo r som e tim e befor e 4 renderin g a decision . I f you'r e incline d t o 5 rende r a decisio no nth e record . I f it' s a 6 writte ndecision , w e coul d probabl yd o thi s i n 7 tw o days . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . An di n 9 general , wh o ar e yo u plannin g t o call ? 1 0 MR . WINTON : I w i 1 1 cal l a 1 1 representativ e fro mEmpir e Flightways . I 1 2 don ' t kno wwhic hon e tha t woul db e a t thi s 1 3 point . 1 4 Arepresentativ e fro mGlas s 1 5 Cockpi t Aircraf t GCA , whic hwa s th e compan y 1 6 tha t prio r to , well , that' s th e compan ytha t 1 7 th e leas e o f th e aircraf t ownershi p ha dwit h 1 8 th e fligh t schoo l t o operat e th e aircraft . 1 9 An d the npossibl ya nexper t o r a 2 0 mechanic . I' mno t sure. 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Fro m you r 2 2 perspectiv e Mr . Winton , wha t ar e th e primar y



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1 lega l issue s o r factua l issue s tha t ar e i n 2 disput e a t thi s point ? 3 MR . WINTON : Well , again , You r 4 Honor , base do nthi s histor yo f th e file , 5 initially , th e FAA , it' s imprope r identit yo f 6 th e part yresponsibl e fo r th e violation , i f a 7 violatio noccurred . 8 S o numbe r one , w e conten dtha t n o 9 violatio ndid , i nfact , occu r wit hregar dt o 1 0 anyoperato r o f th e aircraft . 1 1 Th e lega l definitio no f a n 1 2 operato r o f a naircraf t i s th e perso ntha t 1 3 use s o r authorize s th e us e o f th e aircraft . 1 4 I t coul db e th e pilot . I t coul db e th e 1 5 owner/operato r o r i t coul d b e a corporatio no r 1 6 a nentit ytha t hold s a leas e tha t authorize s 1 7 i t t o operat e th e aircraft . 1 8 Clearly , i nthi s case , th e onl y 1 9 insuranc e polic ytha t wa s issue dtha t woul d 2 0 cove r anylos s involve dwit hth e operatio no f 2 1 th e aircraf t wa s issue dt o a compan ybyth e 2 2 nam e GC Ao r Glas s Cockpi t Aircraft . 

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1 GC Awas , an dstil l is , a nentit y 2 tha t wa s se t up solel yfo r th e purpos e o f providin g fligh t instructio ni nthes e ne wtyp e 4 technologicall yadvance daircraf t fo r whic h 5 th e Diamon daircraf t involve d i nthi s cas e wa s 6 suc ha technologicall yadvance daircraft . 7 Th e owne r o f th e aircraf t entere d
a leas e agreemen t wit hGlas s Cockpit . Par t o f 9 tha t leas e wa s Glas s Cockpi t wen t an d obtaine d 1 0 a ninsuranc e polic yt o cove r th e us e an d 1 1 authorize dus e o f th e aircraft , alon g wit ha 1 2 flee t o f othe r aircraf t tha t i t maintaine dan d 1 3 managed . 1 4 A t som e poin t i ntime. Glas s 1 5 Cockpi t move dfro mon e par t o f th e airpor t 1 6 ove r t o anothe r par t o f th e airpor t an d 1 7 sublease dspac e fro mEmpir e Fligh t Academyan d 1 8 Empir e Airways . 1 9 Th e FA Adecide dt o brin g thi s 2 0 particula r cas e firs t agains t Empir e Airways , 2 1 whic hi s a charte r operato r an d doesn' t d o 2 2 fligh t instruction . Tha t cas e wa s dismisse d



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1 an dattorney' s fee s wer e grante d agains t th e 2 FAA . 3 Th e FA Athe nre-file dth e cas e 4 agains t Empir e Airways . An dwha t I'v e tol d 5 Mr . Berma nal l alon g - - 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' msorry . 7 MR . WINTON : G o ahead . 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' m goin g t o sto p 9 you . 1 0 MR . WINTON : Sure. 1 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yo u originall y 1 2 sai dtha t th e firs t cas e wa s file dagains t 1 3 Empir e Airways , an dthe ni t wa s dismisse dwit h 1 4 attorney' s fee s awarded . 1 5 MR . WINTON : Correct . 1 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Th e cas e wa s the n 1 7 re-filed , an d i t wa s m yunderstandin g tha t i t 1 8 wa s re-file dagains t Empir e Fligh t Academyth e 1 9 secon d time , o r i s tha t - - 2 0 MR . WINTON : Correct . 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . G o ahead . 2 2 MR . WINTON : Okay . S o th e timin g


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7

1 0 1 o f whe nth e aircraf t wa s bein g operate d by 2 Glas s Cockpit , whe nthe ymove d fro mthei r 3 forme r locatio nto'th e presen t locatio na t th e 4 tim e o f th e inciden t wa s leasin g spac e fro m 5 Empir e Airways/Empir e Fligh t Academy . The y 6 al l share da hanga r o na differen t par t o f th e airport . Sam e airport .

I f yo u loo k a t th e billing , th e 9 billin g wa s stil l goin g t o th e owne r o f th e aircraf t fo r maintaining , managin g and 1 1 operatin g th e aircraf t fro m Glas s Cockpi t t o 1 2 th e owner . Bu t sinc e Empir e Fligh t Academy 1 3 wa s helpin g ou t wit hleasin g the m spac e an d 1 4 -doing som e o f thei r interna l paperwork , i t 1 5 cam e fro mEmpir e Fligh t Academybu t stil l wa s 1 6 bein g bille dbyan d th e credit s wer e bein g 1 7 give nt o Glas s Cockpit . 1 8 S o w e hav e a situatio nwher e whe n 1 9 th e inciden t occurred , Glas s Cockpi t wa s th e 2 0 on e tha t ha d th e sol e insuranc e polic yt o 2 1 operat e th e aircraft . The ywer e leasin g spac e 2 2 fro mEmpir e Fligh t Academyan d thei r billin g


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1 cod e wa s stil l bein g use d i nth e Empir e Fligh t 2 Academybillin g invoices . 3 Th e ide a was , eventually , Empir e 4 Fligh t Academywa s goin g t o tak e ove r Glas s 5 Cockpit . Tha t neve r occurred . 6 An d I jus t di da busines s searc h 7 i nth e stat e o f Ne wYork . Glas s Cockpi t i s 8 stil l ope na s a busines s i nNe wYork , bu t I 9 don' t thin k they'r e doin g busines s a s a fligh t 1 0 schoo l anymore . Bu t I don' t kno wtha t t o b e 1 1 th e case , becaus e that' s no t myclient . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I t appeare d fro m 1 3 th e Mo t io nfo r Summar yJudgmen t and , th e 1 4 respons e t o th e summar yjudgmen t motion , tha t 1 5 th e Glas s Cockpi t aircraf t wa s operatin g fro m 1 6 Septembe r 1 o f 200 8 throug hSeptembe r 1 o f 1 7 2009 . 1 8 An dthe nyou r clien t wa s i n 1 9 operatio nfro m Septembe r 1 , 200 9 throug h 2 0 Septembe r 1 , 2010 . 2 1 Th e perio do f tim e tha t I se e tha t 2 2 ha s bee nallege da s bein g problemati c i nthi s

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1 perio d i s betwee nApri l o f '0 9 throug hJun e o f 2 '09 . Whic haccordin g t o a t leas t you r 3 material , yo u indicate d i nyou r material s tha t 4 th e Glas s Cockpi t aircraf t wa s th e sol e 5 operator . I s tha t right ? 6 MR . WINTON : That' s correct . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . You r clien t i s assertin g tha t i t ha s n o influence , 9 n o share dactivitie s essentiall ywit hthi s 1 0 othe r corporatio nthat' s independen t fro mi t 1 1 i nal l aspects . 1 2 MR . WINTON : Well , whe nw e say 1 3 shared , again , m yunderstanding , an d I've hav e 1 4 t o spea k t o somebod yfro mGlas s Cockpits , wa s 1 5 tha t the ywer e leasin g spac e an dtha t w e wer e 1 6 doin g th e billing . Well , we . Empir e wa s 1 7 doin g th e billin g fo r Glas s Cockpit . 1 8 Now , i t als o ma yb e tha t th e 1 9 maintenance . Again , the ycombine dth e 2 0 companies . Th e maintenanc e ma yhav e bee n 2 1 performe d byEmpir e Fligh t Academyo na 2 2 contrac t wit hGlas s Cockpi t o nbehal f o f th e


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1 owne r o f th e aircraft . 2 And , yo u know , w e tal k abou t 3 maintenance . I thin k tha t reall yi s wha t thi s 4 cas e come s dow nto . Tha t i t wa s potentiall y 5 o r allegedl yimproperl ymaintained . 6 Well , w e ha d a mechani c who' s 7 workin g a s a nindependen t mechanic . Whethe r 8 th e payroll' s fro mEmpir e o r not , tha t i f a 9 mechani c sign s of f wor k pursuan t t o th e 1 0 Federa l Aviatio nRegulations , Empire , th e 1 1 owne r o f th e aircraf t t o Glas s Cockpits , al l 1 2 hav e t o rel yupo nth e signatur e o f tha t 1 3 independen t mechanic . I f th e aircraf t ha s 1 4 bee nreturne d t o service . Meanin g tha t i t i s 1 5 airworthy . 1 6 I f ever yowner/operato r ha dt o g o 1 7 beyon d th e signatur e o f a mechanic , an d 1 8 actuall yd o a nindependen t investigatio nt o 1 9 determin e i f tha t signatur e i s prope r an d th e 2 0 aircraf t actuall yi s airworthy , i t woul d 2 1 requir e ever yowner/operato r t o ge t tw o 2 2 mechanics , on e t o chec k th e othe r one' s work . 

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2 drafted . 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , par t o f 4 you r defens e essentiall ywoul db e tha t i f 5 ther e wa s anyproblem , th e FA Ashoul d b e goin g 6 afte r a nindependen t contracto r mechani c a s 7 oppose dt o you r compan yo r eve nGlas s Cockpi t 8 Aircraft . 9 MR . WINTON : Correct . An dI don' t 1 0 wan t t o phras e i t a s a nindependen t 1 1 contractor . I f th e perso nwa s a nemployee , i n 1 2 th e sens e o f aircraf t maintenance , ther e wer e 1 3 tw o type s o f aircraf t technician s tha t ca n 1 4 perfor mmaintenanc e o na naircraf t i n 1 5 accordanc e wit hth e Federa l Aviatio n 1 6 Regulations . 1 7 On e i s a mechani c tha t ha s a n 1 8 individua l Airfram e an dPowerplan t 1 9 Certificate , whic hha s a numbe r assigne d by 2 0 th e FAA . An d tha t number , lik e a licens e 2 1 number , need s t o b e o neac han dever ysig nof f 2 2 tha t tha t mechani c doe s o nwor k performe d o n


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1 a naircraft . 2 Th e alternativ e i s a certifie d 3 repai r station . An di f Empir e wa s a certifie d 4 repai r station , anyviolatio nwit hregar dt o 5 th e maintenanc e performe dwoul dthe ng o 6 agains t th e compan yan dno t th e independen t 7 mechanic . 8 An d that ' s no t th e cas e here . 9 It' s th e independen t mechani c tha t signe dof f 1 0 th e wor k wit hhi s particula r A&P , Aircraf t an d 1 1 Powerplan t mechani c number . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dar e yo u 1 3 plannin g a s par t o f you r pretria l wor k t o 1 4 provid e m e an dth e othe r sid e wit hlega l 1 5 authorit yt o suppor t tha t position ? 1 6 MR . WINTON : Sure . We'l l giv e yo u 1 7 a pretrial brief . I f yo u wante d u s to , I 1 8 thin k i t woul db e a waste , bu t I coul d 1 9 certainl yrene wth e Motio nfo r Summar y 2 0 Judgmen t wit hsom e o f thes e additiona l 2 1 argument s tha t I made . Becaus e som e 2 2 additiona l informatio ndi d com e myway . Fo r

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1 instance , th e Glas s Cockpi t busines s 2 certificat e fro mth e stat e o f Ne wYork . 3 An dI coul d pu t som e additiona l 4 la wi nther e an dpossibl yge t a naffidavi t 5 eithe r fro msomebod yfro m Glas s Cockpi t and/o r 6 somebod yfro m Empire . Bu t I don' t kno wtha t 7 yo u wan t t o entertai nanothe r Motio nfo r 8 Summar yJudgment . Yo u tel l m e wha t you' d lik e 9 an dwe'l l d o whateve r th e Judg e woul d like. 1 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Than k you . 1 1 Anythin g els e tha t you' d lik e t o saya t thi s 1 2 poin t befor e I tur nbac k t o Mr . Berman ? 1 3 MR . WINTON : Nothin g o nbehal f o f 1 4 myclient , Judge . 1 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Berman . 1 6 Let' s star t wit hth e identit yo f you r 1 7 witnesses , th e inspector , th e pilo t an d th e 1 8 on e layperson . Hav e yo u ha d a chanc e t o 1 9 provid e tha t information , a t leas t i nwriting , 2 0 t o Mr . Winton ? 2 1 MR . BERMAN : I believ e i nmy 2 2 origina l discover yresponses , I liste d Eri c


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1 Claros , th e pilot , an dLoui s Misiano . I woul d 2 als o ad da s a witnes s th e owne r o f Clyd e 3 Leasin g wh o wrot e a statement . I don' t hav e 4 hi s name . Al l right . Hi s nam e i s i nth e 5 paperwork . I don' t hav e i t of f hand . I ca n 6 ge t it . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . 8 MR . BERMAN : Yo u know , I coul dge t 9 tha t t o hi mrigh t afte r th e conference . 1 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . There' s 1 1 bee na suggestio ntha t par t o f thi s cas e coul d 1 2 b e resolve dbya Renewe d Motio nfo r Summar y 1 3 Judgment . D o yo u hav e anyrespons e t o that ? 1 4 MR . BERMAN : Well , it' s alread y 1 5 been , I don' t kno wwha t ne winformatio nh e 1 6 has , bu t I thin k tha t ther e ar e issue s tha t 1 7 ca nb e resolve d withou t havin g t o g o t o a 1 8 hearing . I t woul dprobabl ybe , ther e ar e a 1 9 lo t o f fact s tha t ar e no t i ndispute . 2 0 An dI thin k thi s cas e i s a typ e o f 2 1 cas e tha t i t woul dbehoov e everybod yt o ente r 2 2 int o stipulatio na s fa r a s summar yjudgment . 

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1 O f course , w e woul datten d anysummar y 2 judgmen t i nfavo r o f respondent . 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' m goin g t o sto p 4 you . I couldn ' t hea r tha t las t portion . 5 Coul dyo u repea t it ? 6 MR . BERMAN : Fro mwhic hpart ? 7 Abou t summar yjudgment ? Thi s ha s alread ybee n addresse dbyth e previou s Judge . W e 9 responded . I don' t kno wwha t othe r 1 0 informatio nMr . Winto nhas . 1 1 I woul d not e tha t ther e ar e a lo t 1 2 o f fact s i nthi s cas e tha t ar e no t i ndisput e 1 3 an dtha t we ' d b e willin g ente r int o 1 4 stipulations . An d w e woul d objec t t o anothe r 1 5 summar yjudgmen t motion . It' s alread ybee n 1 6 addressed . 1 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Ther e wa s 1 8 a suggestio nbyopposin g counse l tha t thi s 1 9 cas e coul dlas t tw o ful l day s an d potentiall y 2 0 g o int o a thir dda ygive nth e si xwitnesse s 2 1 tha t hav e currentl ybee nidentifie dan d th e 2 2 potentia l fo r vigorou s cross-examination . D o



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1 yo u tak e anypositio nabou t that ? 2 MR . BERMAN : I don' t thin k i t 3 shoul dtak e mor e tha ntw o days . On e da yif , 4 I don' t kno who wlon g respondent' s witnesse s 5 wil l take , bu t I don' t thin k i t shoul d las t 6 mor e tha ntw o days . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Whydon' t 8 w e d o this . Mytria l schedul e ha s bee n 9 gettin g booke d up . An d s o i t migh t b e helpfu l 1 0 i f w e loo k a t al l o f ou r calendars . 1 1 Finda dat e fo r tria l tha t work s 1 2 fo r al l o f us , an dthe nbacktrac k a littl e bi t 1 3 t o settin g u p som e date s fo r exchang e o f fina l 1 4 discovery , includin g anyan dal l supplementa l 1 5 material s tha t Mr . Berma nwa s talkin g about . 1 6 I' msorry . Mr . Winto nwa s talkin g about . 1 7 An d the nals o tal k abou t a tim e 1 8 perio dfo r filin g som e shor t pretria l brief s 1 9 wit hlega l authorit yregardin g th e dispute d 2 0 factua l an d lega l issues , a s wel l a s othe r 2 1 matter s tha t migh t hel p streamlin e trial . 2 2 I nterm s o f th e suggestio nfo r a



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1 ne wMotio nfo r Summar yJudgment , I'l l 2 respectfull ydeclin e t o se t a ne wdispositiv e 3 motio ni ntha t regard . 4 Th e partie s spent , I think , a goo d 5 dea l o f tim e an dmone yalread yi nfilin g th e 6 motion s tha t wer e addresse d byJudg e Goodwin . 7 An dI thin k a t thi s point , we'r e beyon d a 8 summar yjudgmen t motio ntha t woul d be , 9 essentially , a renewa l o f wha t ha s alread y 1 0 bee ndecide d bymycolleague . 1 1 Solet'stal k abou t calenda r 1 2 dates . I' m goin g t o tel l yo u abou t whe nI 1 3 hav e tim e open . An daccordin g t o mynotes , i t 1 4 look s lik e thi s i s i nNe wYor k City . I s tha t 1 5 correct ? 1 6 MR . BERMAN : Yo u kno wwhat , You r 1 7 Honor ? W e hav e recentl ybee nholdin g hearing s 1 8 a t th e Islip , Ne wYor k Lon g Islan dCourthouse , 1 9 whic hi s mos t convenien t t o th e parties . An d 2 0 it' s a muc hnice r courthouse . It' s a Federa l 2 1 Distric t Court , whic hi s underused . It' s go t 2 2 a beautifu l vie wo f th e ocean . No t tha t tha t



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1 helps . 2 Bu t Judg e Benkin , befor e h e 3 retired , hel da coupl e o f hearing s ther e wit h 4 me . An dit' s eas yacces s t o th e Lon g Islan d 5 MacArthu r Airport , whic hi s cheape r t o th e 6 Board . Th e hotel s ar e cheape r t o sta ya t i n 7 Lon g Island , an d again , i na beautifu l 8 facility , othe r tha nNe wYor k City . 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dthe nca nyou , 1 0 and , I' m

sorry . Wa s tha t Mr . Winton ? 1 1 MR . WINTON : I t was . I' msorry , 1 2 You r Honor . 1 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Winton , ca n 1 4 yo u spel l Isli p fo r me ? 1 5 MR . WINTON : Sure . I-S-L-I-P . 1 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . S o it' s 1 7 th e Isli p Lon g Islan dFedera l Distric t 1 8 Courthouse ? 1 9 MR . WINTON : Correct . It' s I 2 0 thin k th e Easter nDistric t o f Ne wYor k Annex . 2 1 Becaus e there' s a nEaster nDistric t o f Ne w 2 2 Yor k i nBrooklyn , an dthi s i s th e Easter n


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1 Distric t Cour t i nIslip , Ne wYork . 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . An djus t 3 s o tha t I ' mclear . There ' s a Lon g Islan d 4 Airport ? 5 MR . WINTON : Correct . It' s als o 6 b yth e nam e o f Islip . An d it s thre e lette r 7 identifie r i s ISP . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Than k you . 9 Mr . Berman , d o yo u hav e an yobjectio nt o 1 0 startin g ther e wit ha potentia l tria l 1 1 location ? 1 2 MR . BERMAN : N o objectio nt o that . 1 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' msorry , what ? 1 4 MR . BERMAN : I hav e n o objectio n 1 5 t o tha t essentially , Islip . 1 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Wel l then , 1 7 absen t problem s gettin g a cour t i ntha t 1 8 facility , we'1 1 pla no ntha t a s ou r defaul t 1 9 plac e fo r th e hearin g itself . 2 0 Le t m e jus t tak e a loo k a t m y 2 1 calendar . Okay , I' mlookin g a t Februar ya t 2 2 thi s point , whic hma yno t b e to o fa r awa yi f



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1 we'r e talkin g abou t doin g som e stipulation s 2 an d pretria l briefs . 3 Startin g wit hyo u Mr . Berman , d o 4 yo u hav e tim e availabl e i nFebruar yfo r 5 potentiall ya two-da ytrial ? MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . D o yo u hav e an yparticula r blackou t date s o r week s i n 9 Februar ytha t w e nee d t o consider ? 1 0 MR . BERMAN : Le t m e check . Le t m e 1 1 jus t tak e a quic k look . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . 1 3 MR . BERMAN : No . No . Th e onl y 1 4 thin g i s I observ e th e Jewis hSabbath , s o 1 5 Frida ywoul d b e problematic . Friday s woul d 1 6 be . 1 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : So , you'r e 1 8 talkin g abou t havin g a Tuesday , Wednesda yo r 1 9 potentiall yThursda ytyp e trial ? 2 0 MR . BERMAN : Right . Right . Tha t 2 1 woul dwor k ou t bes t fo r me . 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Turnin g t o



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1 you , Mr . Winton . Wha t abou t February? Doe s 2 Februar ywor k fo r you ? 3 MR . WINTON : Februar ywoul dwor k 4 fo r th e trial . Judge . Myconcer ni s i t ma yb e 5 a littl e aggressiv e i ntiming . I've go t thre e 6 appeal s tha t I' mworkin g o ntha t nee dt o ge t 7 ou t i nJanuar ywhic hwil l kee p m e prett ybus y 8 a s fa r a s tria l prep . I s ther e anywa yw e 9 coul dpus hi t t o March ? 1 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : O f course . O f 1 1 course . Le t m e se e wha t I have . I' m lookin g 1 2 at , an dI nee d t o g o an d loo k a t myApri l 1 3 calenda r reall yquickly . 1 4 Folk s I hav e eithe r th e las t wee k 1 5 o f March , Marc h26t hthroug hth e 30t ho r I 1 6 hav e th e followin g wee k whic hi s Apri l 2n d 1 7 throug hth e 6th . So , Mr . Winton , I'l l star t 1 8 wit hyou . D o eithe r o f thos e week s wor k fo r 1 9 you ? 2 0 MR . WINTON : Yes , th e wee k o f th e 2 1 26t ho f Marc hwoul d wor k bette r fo r me . Apri l 2 2 begin s th e sprin g break , an dI stil l hav e



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1 teenag e children . 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Mr . 3 Berman , woul dtha t wee k wor k fo r you ?

MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , the nlet' s 6 pla no nth e wee k o f Marc h26t hfo r trial , an d 7 tha t woul dbe , whydon' t w e pla no nMonda ya s a trave l da yfo r thos e o f u s wh o ar e comin g 9 fro ma littl e farther. An d the nlet ' s say 1 0 Marc h2 7t han dMarc h2 8 t ha s th e actua l 1 1 hearin g times , wit hThursday , Marc h2 9t ha s 1 2 anothe r trave l day . 1 3 An d counsel , I ca nalway s reserv e 1 4 par t o f th e 29t hi f yo u thin k it' s necessary . 1 5 I' drathe r reserv e mor e tim e no wtha nto o 1 6 littl e time . S o turnin g t o yo u first , Mr . 1 7 Berman , anylas t thought s abou t that ? 1 8 MR . BERMAN : Abou t th e schedulin g 1 9 o f th e hearing ? 2 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Abou t whethe r w e 2 1 shoul dreserv e anymor e tim e tha ntw o days . 2 2 MR . BERMAN : I gues s w e shoul d



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JUDG E SULLIVAN : An d Mr . Winton , 3 wha t abou t you ? 4 MR . WINTON : That' s fine . Yes , w e 5 ma yg o int o th e mornin g o f th e 29th . I highl y 6 doub t it , bu t yo u migh t a s wel l b e safe . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Let' s pla n
o nthre e day s then , an dthe nwha t I ca nd o i s 9 I ca nen da littl e early . 1 0 Mr . Berman , wher e ar e yo u located ? 1 1 MR . BERMAN : Nea r JF K Airport . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . S o i f w e 1 3 wen t unti l sa y4:3 0 o nThursda yth e 29th , tha t 1 4 woul dstil l b e oka yfo r you ? You' db e abl e t o 1 5 ge t hom e tha t day ? 1 6 MR . BERMAN : Yes . 1 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Okay . Al l 1 8 right . Al l right . So , we'1 1 hav e Tuesday , 1 9 Wednesda yan dThursday , Marc h27th , Marc h28t h 2 0 an d Marc h29t ho f th e yea r 201 2 reserve dfo r 2 1 ou r hearin g times . Wit hMarc h26 , 201 2 an d 2 2 fo r som e o f us , Marc h30 , 201 2 a s a trave l da y



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1 fo r thos e o f u s flyin g i no r drivin g i nfro m 2 ou t o f town . 3 Tha t put s u s wit hpretria l brief s 4 firs t a s w e g o bac k i ntime . Typically , I 5 lik e t o hav e a pretria l brie f abou t te n 6 workin g day s befor e th e actua l trial . S o tha t 7 woul db e abou t Marc h20t ha t th e ver ylatest . I coul dpus htha t u p a littl e earlie r i f th e 9 partie s want . I t woul db e a mutua l exchange . 1 0 Startin g wit hyou , Mr . Berman . D o 1 1 yo u hav e a preference ? 1 2 MR . BERMAN : Tha t sound s fine . I 1 3 mea nt o hav e i t te nday s before . 1 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dMr . Winton , 1 5 i s tha t acceptable ? 1 6 MR . WINTON : That' s acceptable . 1 7 S o wa s i t th e 20t hJudg e o r th e 16th ? 1 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , let' s pla n 1 9 o nth e 20th . 2 0 MR . WINTON : Okay , Marc h20 . 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Fo r th e pretria l 2 2 briefs , that' s te nday s prio r t o - - oh , I' m


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1 sorry . I' m

lookin g a t th e las t da yinstea d o f 2 3 MR . WINTON : Right . I t woul db e 4 th e 16th . 5 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes , than k you . 6 I t woul db e Marc h16t hfo r th e exchang e o f th e 7 pretrial briefs , whic hi s a Friday . 8 An dthe nlet' s tal k abou t exchang e 9 o f anyan dal l supplementa l discovery , a s wel l 1 0 a s th e exchang e o f witnes s list s an dexhibits . 1 1 An dthe nI als o wan t t o cha t wit hyo u a littl e 1 2 bi t abou t stipulations . 1 3 Startin g wit hyou , Mr . Berman . 1 4 Ca nyo u giv e m e wha t you r idea l tim e fram e 1 5 woul db e fo r thos e thre e things ? An d I'l l 1 6 repea t them . A nexchang e o f writte nor , yo u 1 7 know , essentiall ya filin g o f writte n 1 8 stipulation s afte r you'v e ha d a chanc e t o tal k 1 9 privatel ywit hopposin g counsel . 2 0 Th e exchang e o f witnes s list s an d 2 1 exhibits , an d the no f course , th e exchang e o f 2 2 anyfina l discovery . 

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MR . BERMAN : Wha t d o yo u want , on e dat e fo r al l thre e o f these , or ?

JUDG E SULLIVAN : No . I thin k 4 you' dnee d t o hav e severa l day s sinc e they'r e 5 differen t things . S o fo r example , you' d 6 probabl ywan t t o exchang e al l o f you r 7 discover ybefor e yo u exchang e you r witnes s 8 list s an dyou r exhibits . 9 An dtucke d i nther e somewher e 1 0 woul db e a tim e t o tal k abou t al l th e 1 1 stipulation s tha t yo u woul dnee d o r woul dlik e 1 2 t o hav e t o narro wth e issues . Narro wth e 1 3 scop e o f th e inquir yonc e yo u ge t witnesse s o n 1 4 th e stand . Narro wth e type s o f exhibit s tha t 1 5 yo u woul dnee dt o file . 1 6 MR . BERMAN : Th e exchang e o f 1 7 discover ytw o month s fro mtoday . Enoug htim e 1 8 fo r discover yan d responses , stipulations . 1 9 Th e thir dite mwas ? 2 0 JUDG E SULLIV7VN : You r exchang e o f 2 1 witnes s list s an d exhibits . 2 2 MR . BERMAN : Exchang e o f witnes s


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1 list s an d exhibits . I gues s withi n6 0 day s 2 of , well , tim e afte r th e discover yi s 3 completed . S o mayb e 1 5 day s afte r discover y 4 i s completed . An d the nstipulations , 1 5 day s 5 afte r that . I' mno t sur e exactl yho wi t work s 6 ou t wit hthe . 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Than k you . Mr . 8 Winton , an ycomments ? An ythought s abou t 9 wha t woul d wor k fo r you r client ? 1 0 MR . WINTON : Yes , that' s fine . 1 1 Tha t woul d work . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , let' s d o 1 3 this . Toda yi s Novembe r 21st . An dI' m 1 4 thinkin g abou t al l o f th e differen t holiday s 1 5 tha t com e i nbetwee nno wan dthen . I' mgoin g 1 6 t o backtrac k o nm ycalenda r a littl e bi t an d 1 7 the nsugges t som e time s fo r yo u both . 1 8 MR . WINTON : Okay . 1 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dMr . Winto n 2 0 again . Yo u sai d tha t yo u ha dsom e appellat e 2 1 issue s tha t g o int o th e en do f January . I s 2 2 tha t correct ?



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1 MR . WINTON : That' s correct . Bu t 2 thes e type s o f things , discovery , witness , 3 exhibi t list s an dstipulation s don' t tak e a 4 lo t o f time , s o I ' mno t to o concerne d abou t my 5 schedul e fo r thos e issues . 6 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Le t m e 7 sugges t thi s t o yo u both , an dthe nI'1 1 as k you , Mr . Berman , an dthe nyou , Mr . Winton , i f 9 yo u hav e anyobjection s t o thi s propose d 1 0 schedule . 1 1 Numbe r one . Fo r th e exchang e o f 1 2 anyan d al l fina l discovery , includin g any 1 3 supplementa l discovery , n o late r tha nJanuar y 1 4 31 , 2012 . Although , I woul dencourag e yo u t o 1 5 star t exchangin g i t righ t now . 1 6 Numbe r two . Fo r th e exchang e o f 1 7 witnes s list s an d exhibit s tha t th e partie s 1 8 inten dt o utilize , oh , I' msorry . Fo r th e 1 9 stipulatio no nal l matters , Februar y15 . An d 2 0 the nfo r th e exchang e o f fina l witnes s list s 2 1 an dal l exhibits , Marc h2 , 2011 . 2 2 MR . BERMAN : 2012 .


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1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' msorry . 2012 . 2 Than k yo u s o ver ymuch . 3 MR . BERMAN : N o problem . 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Berman , woul d 5 tha t wor k fo r you ? Woul dtha t b e a 6 comfortabl e schedul e fo r you ? 7 MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : An d Mr . Winton ? 9 MR . WINTON : Yes , that ' s f ine , 1 0 Judge . 1 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Startin g 1 2 wit hyo u Mr . Berman . I s ther e anythin g els e 1 3 tha t thi s Cour t ca nassis t yo u wit hi nterm s 1 4 o f cas e managemen t o r th e narrowin g o f issue s 1 5 tha t woul dhel p reduc e th e cost s o f tria l fo r 1 6 yo u an d you r client ? 1 7 MR . BERMAN : No . 1 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dMr . Winton , 1 9 o nbehal f o f you r client , sam e question . 2 0 MR . WINTON : Othe r tha na renewe d 2 1 motio nfo r summar yjudgmen t . Bu t I thin k 2 2 we'v e alread yaddresse d that . 

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1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . I' m ver y 2 careful , an dI' ma bi g fa no f summar yjudgmen t 3 motions . Jus t s o tha t yo u know . Bu t I don' t 4 wan t t o trea do nmycolleague' s toes . 5 MR . WINTON : Yes , I notice dtha t 6 th e decisio nwa s basicall ydenie d without , yo u 7 know , muc ho f a writte nexplanation . And , I 8 mean , becaus e Mr . Berma nagree s tha t mos t o f 9 th e fact s ar e stipulated , i t seem s t o m e it' s 1 0 a lega l questio nhere . An d then , almos t rip e 1 1 fo r summar yjudgment . Bu t again , I don' t wan t 1 2 t o g o agains t th e grai nthere . 1 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . An d I woul d 1 4 sayt o yo u that , again , I' m a bi g fa no f 1 5 summar yjudgmen t motion s n o matte r wh o bring s 1 6 the m

t o me . 1 7 I certainl yexercis e al l o f th e 1 8 tool s availabl e t o th e Cour t unde r C R56 , 1 9 whic hwoul d allo wm e t o gran t eithe r th e 2 0 motio nthat' s bee nraise d o r eve ncross 2 1 motions . O r eve no na nindependen t level , 2 2 fin do nbehal f o f th e part ywh o ha s presente d



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2 Bu t i nthi s particula r case , you'r e right . Th e motio nwa s denied . I t wa s 4 globall ydenied . An d I don' t se e a wa yfo r m e 5 t o entertai na renewe dmotio nwithou t steppin g 6 o nmycolleague' s toes . An d I don' t wan t t o 7 d o that . 8 MR . WINTON : An dI ca nappreciat e 9 an d understan d that . I mean , wha t about , an d 1 0 I'v e don e thi s i nothe r cases , a motio nfo r 1 1 partia l summar yjudgmen t t o limi t th e issue s 1 2 a t th e hearing . 1 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , you r 1 4 origina l motio nwa s fo r a partia l summar y 1 5 j udgment . 1 6 MR . WINTON : Oh , wa s it ? 1 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : O nCoun t 3 . MR . WINTON : Okay . 1 9 JUDG E SULLIVAN : So . 2 0 MR . BERMAN : Th e agenc yha s no t 2 1 file d a summar yjudgment , bu t w e woul dno t b e 2 2 preclude dfro mdoin g so , woul d i^^e ?



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1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I f yo u hav e no t 2 file d a motio nfo r summar yjudgment , yo u woul d 3 no t b e preclude d fro mdoin g so . And , o f 4 course , i f yo u choos e t o d o that , I ' d b e happ y 5 t o hav e yo u folk s d o that . An dI generall y 6 1 ik e t o hav e summar yj udgmen t mo t ion s 7 accompanie d b yora l argumen t becaus e the yar e dispositive . 9 I shoul d sa yI alway s hav e 1 0 que s t ion s whe nI se e a summar yj udgmen t 1 1 motion . An d I' dlik e t o hav e the manswere d 1 2 befor e I issu e an yrulin g o ndispositiv e 1 3 motions . 14 MR . WINTON : Well , that' s 1 5 refreshing . Judge . I'v e bee ntryin g t o ge t 1 6 tha t fo r year s now . 1 7 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , you'l l ge t 1 8 i t al l th e tim e fro mme . 1 9 MR . WINTON : Wonderful . 2 0 Wonderful . 2 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o i f th e tw o o f 2 2 yo u i nyou r privat e discussion s decid e tha t



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1 yo u woul dlik e t o d o a dispositiv e motio n 2 agai nthat' s not , ho wd o I wan t t o sa ythis , 3 identica l t o th e on e that' s alread ybee n 4 decide dbyJudg e Goodwin . 5 I woul dcertainl yb e happ yt o 6 entertai ntha t an d t o assis t th e tw o o f yo u i n 7 settin g u p a nora l argumen t wit hdu e date s fo r 8 bot hth e motion , th e answe r an da reply . 9 I kno wtha t i nth e genera l 1 0 practic e befor e th e offic e i t migh t hav e no t 1 1 bee ntypical , bu t I certainl yamhapp yt o 1 2 allo wthem . An d I' muse d t o seein g replie s i n 1 3 wor k tha t I've don e elsewhere . 1 4 MR . WINTON : Judge , i f I may . 1 5 Thi s i s Gre g Winton . I thin k a t thi s point , 1 6 becaus e we'v e jus t go t th e schedul e an dit' s 1 7 alread ybee nrule dupo nbyyou r offic e tha t 1 8 ther e ar e materia l issue s o f fac t i ndispute , 1 9 albei t i t ma yb e ver ylimited . 2 0 I thin k anothe r motio nfo r summar y 2 1 judgmen t eve no nbehal f o f th e complainan t a t 2 2 thi s tim e woul d b e a tremendou s wast e o f



### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

. {202 ) 234-443 3 WASHINGTON

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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co m4 1 judicia l resources , i nadditio nt o wast e o f 2 mone yfro meac ho f th e client s involved . 3 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Wei1 , i t i s 4 costly , an dso , bu t I' m jus t leavin g tha t ope n 5 fo r you r privat e discussion s i f yo u woul dlik e 6 t o jointl ymov e fo r tha t kin d o f relief . 7 I nth e even t tha t that' s wate r unde r th e bridge , I' mhapp yt o assis t i nothe r 9 ways , i f yo u ca nthin k o f somethin g els e 1 0 betwee nno w an dth e trial . 1 1 MR . WINTON : Okay . 1 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Fo r you r purpose s 1 3 counsel , I wil l b e sendin g ou t a norde r 1 4 basicall yquantifyin g i nwritin g al l o f th e 1 5 differen t date s tha t we'v e jus t discussed . 1 6 An dhopefull yI'l l hav e tha t ou t bytomorro w 1 7 befor e everybod ygoe s an d start s celebratin g 1 8 a Thanksgivin g holiday . 1 9 MR . WINTON : Wonderful . 2 0 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . O nbehal f 2 1 o f th e FA

AMr . Berman , i s ther e anythin g els e tha t w e ca naddres s fo r yo uan dyou r clien t



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1 today ? 2 MR . BERMAN : On e thin g I' dlik e t o 3 clarify . Mr . Winto nsai d tha t th e Empir e 4 Airway s cas e tha t w e originall ybrough t wa s 5 dismisse dbyth e administrativ e la wjudge . W e 6 actuall ywen t throug htha t actio nwhic h 7 resulte di nth e dismissa l o f th e case . 8 MR . WINTON : I' msorry , Zach . I 9 di d misspeak . I'v e go t s o man ycases . You'r e 1 0 correct . That' s th e wa yi nwhic hi t happened . 1 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Than k yo u 1 2 ver ymuch . Mr . Winton , anythin g tha t yo u 1 3 woul dlik e t o addres s befor e w e g o of f th e 1 4 record ? 1 5 MR . WINTON : No , You r Honor . 1 6 Than k yo u ver ymuc hfo r you r tim e thi s 1 7 morning . 1 8 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Than k yo u 1 9 bot hver ymuc hfo r you r time. I loo k forwar d 2 0 t o seein g yo u i nMarc h201 2 i f th e cas e i s no t 2 1 settled . I f yo u nee d anyfurthe r assistance , 2 2don' t hesitat e t o cal l mylega l assistant . 

### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE.

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1 She ' d b e happ yt o se t yo u u p wit ha phon e 2 conferenc e wit hme . 3 MR . WINTON : Wonderful . 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : W e ca ng o of f th e 5 record , an dI wis hyo u al l a happ yholiday . 6 MR . WINTON : Than k you , too , 7 Judge . Bye , bye . Whereupon , th e teleconferenc e i n 9 th e above-entitle dmatte r wa s conclude da t 1 0 11:13a.m . 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7

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### NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE.

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c Co . 202-234-443 3 In c .5 0
CERTIFICAT E

Thi s i s C O certif ytha c th e foregoin g transcrip t

I nth e matte r of : Empir e Fligh t Academy

Before : U S DO T

Date : 11-21-1 1

Place : teleconferenc e

wa s dul yrecorde d an d accuratel ytranscribe d unde r m ydirection ; further , tha t sai d transcrip t i s a tru e an daccurat e recor d o f th e proceedings .

Cour t Reporte r



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