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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO

WESTERN DIVISION

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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Plaintiff,

vs.

YANJUN XU, also known as XU

YANJUN, also known as QU HUI,

also known as ZHANG HUI,

Defendant.

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CASE NO. 1:18-cr-0043

REDACTED

IN-PERSON TRIAL

PROCEEDINGS

18th of OCTOBER, 2021

9:12 A.M.

DAY 1

- - -

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BEFORE THE HONORABLE TIMOTHY S. BLACK, JUDGE

- - -

APPEARANCES:

For the Plaintiff:

Timothy S. Mangan, Esq.

Emily N. Glatfelter, Esq.

Assistant United States Attorneys

221 East Fourth Street, Suite 400

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

and

Matthew John McKenzie, Esq.

United States Department of Justice

National Security Division

950 Pennsylvania Avenue NW

Washington, D.C. 20530

and

Jacqueline K. Prim

Special Assistant, Paralegal

United States Department of Justice

National Security Division

950 Pennsylvania Avenue NW

Washington, D.C. 20530

For the Defendant:

Ralph William Kohnen, Esq.

Jeanne Marie Cors, Esq.

Sanna-Rae Taylor, Esq.

Courtney Lynch, Esq.

Taft Stettinius and Hollister

425 East Walnut Street, Suite 1800

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202

and

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Robert K. McBride, Esq.

Amanda Johnson, Esq.

Taft Stettinius and Hollister

50 East RiverCenter Boulevard

Suite 850

Covington, Kentucky 41011

and

Florian Miedel, Esq.

Miedel & Mysliwiec, LLP

80 Broad Street, Suite 1900

New York, New York 10004

Also present: Mae Harmon, Interpreter

Yanjun Xu, Defendant

Law Clerk: Cristina V. Frankian, Esq.

Courtroom Deputy: Rebecca Santoro

Stenographer: Julie Hohenstein, RPR, RMR, CRR

United States District Court

200 West Second Street

Dayton, Ohio 45402

Proceedings reported by mechanical stenography,

transcript produced by computer.

*** *** *** ***

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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 9:12 A.M.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: This United States District

Court for the Southern District of Ohio is now in session.

The Honorable Timothy S. Black, United States District

Judge, presiding.

THE COURT: Please be seated. Good morning. We're

here in the open courtroom on the record day one of the

criminal docket in the Jury trial of the matter of United

States of America versus Yanjun Xu.

There's an interpreter present, and I wish to

administer the oath to correctly interpret. If the

interpreter would stand and raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will

accurately, correctly interpret these proceedings on behalf

of the Defendant for the duration of the trial?

THE INTERPRETER: Yes, I do.

THE COURT: Good morning, and thank you. You may

be seated.

THE INTERPRETER: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: It's about 9:15. Mr. Xu has joined us

in the company of the Marshal. I'd like the attorneys to

enter their appearances for the record. Who will appear as

the attorneys for the United States of America, and with

whom are you joined as your representative?

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MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, Tim Mangan on behalf of

the United States.

MS. GLATFELTER: Emily Glatfelter.

MR. McKENZIE: And Matthew McKenzie.

THE COURT: Good morning to the three of you.

MR. MANGAN: And then joining us at counsel table

is Special Agent Bradley Hull.

THE COURT: Very well. Good morning, sir. The

four of you may be seated. In the rush to get organized, I

have forgotten my mask. Would you -- Ms. Frankian, will you

get my mask, please, from chambers? I'm fully vaccinated,

but we're all going to wear masks. Thank you.

Julie Hohenstein is our court reporter. She'll be

with us this week is my understanding -- provided she

survives. Thank you for being present, ma'am.

The Jurors, we randomized list of names with

numbers. It's still being prepared. We'll get it to you

and to me as soon as we can.

First thing I want to address, we are outside the

presence of the Jurors; present with the Defendant and all

attorneys.

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor --

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. KOHNEN: -- pardon me, but with the Court's

permission, we'd like to introduce ourselves for the record.

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THE COURT: Do you think that's important?

MR. KOHNEN: It's probably important for the

record. It's not personally important to me, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Forgive me. Would the Defense enter

their appearances, please?

MR. KOHNEN: Thank you, Judge. On behalf of our

client, Mr. Xu, Ralph Kohnen.

MR. MIEDEL: Good morning, Your Honor, Florian

Miedel for Mr. Xu.

MS. CORS: Good morning, Your Honor, Jeanne Cors

for Mr. Xu.

MS. TAYLOR: Good morning, Your Honor, Sanna-Rae

Taylor.

MR. McBRIDE: Good morning, Your Honor, Bob McBride

for Mr. Xu.

MS. JOHNSON: Good morning, Your Honor, Amanda

Johnson.

MS. LYNCH: Good morning, Your Honor, Courtney

Lynch.

THE COURT: Good morning to all of you and forgive

me for overlooking that step. Thank you, Mr. Kohnen. As

the trial proceeds, do not be concerned about interrupting

me in general, so to speak -- maybe.

Mr. Xu, good morning.

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Good morning.

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THE COURT: First thing I want to address is the

number of Prospective Jurors. Over the weekend, we lost

another Juror, so I believe our final number is down to 40;

is that correct; Ms. Frankian? Is that your sense? We may

be generally there?

MS. FRANKIAN: As of yesterday, we had 40.

THE COURT: As of yesterday, we had 40. The Court

had proposed selecting four Alternates, which would mean 16

Jurors and four additional Peremptory strikes, two per side.

I learned, however, that as an initial matter if we

are to socially distance Jurors 6 feet a part from one

another, we can only accommodate 15 Jurors.

That said, we could probably get one more person in

somewhere if need-be.

But I'd like to consider whether we should go ahead

with 15 instead, which would not only accomplish social

distance, but also lower the minimum number of Prospective

Jurors we need for Jury selection, which may or may not be

necessary. We won't know until we've addressed Challenges

for Cause.

That also brings me to the next issue, which is the

possibility that we may end up short on Jurors. If a

handful of people indicate that they have some hardship they

didn't disclose previously or some bias that cannot be

rehabilitated, if that happens, rather than delay empaneling

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the Jury, we could cut back the number of Alternates to two

that would eliminate two Jurors on a Peremptory strike on

each side, so rather than 36 people minimum, we'd only need

32 minimum to complete Jury selection.

I want to hear from both sides. Do you object to

cutting back to three Alternatives in order to promote

complete social distancing? And only if it becomes

necessary to ensure that we empanel a Jury today, do you

object to cutting back to two Alternates.

Is the Government able to process that and respond?

MR. MANGAN: We are, Your Honor. We have no

objection to either of those suggestions.

THE COURT: Very well. And on behalf of Defendant?

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, I'm going to need a moment

to consult with my client about that with the Court's

permission?

THE COURT: Very well. Yes.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with Defendant Yanjun Xu.)

MR. KOHNEN: Sorry for the delay, Your Honor. The

Court's proposal's acceptable to us.

THE COURT: Thank you. The next item I wish to

address on the record is plea negotiations. I'm required to

do this as a matter of law.

The colloquy is attempted to memorialize

Defendant's acknowledgement of plea offers, if any, made and

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rejected, and Defendant's knowing decision to proceed to

trial.

I'd like to ask the Government to State for the

record all former plea offers extended, and the current

offer, if any, on the table?

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, on July 23, 2021, the

Government extended a formal plea offer in writing to the

Defense. The plea proposal is as follows:

We propose that Defendant plead to Counts 1 and 2

of the indictment, and then under a Rule (c)(1)(C)

Agreement, the parties would agree to a binding sentencing

range between 210 and 240 months.

That was the proposal that was sent from the

Government on July 23, 2021.

THE COURT: And did you get a response?

MR. MANGAN: We received no response, Your Honor,

since that time.

THE COURT: Is that offer still on the table?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you. For purposes of

the record, I would ask Defense counsel to confirm any

formal offers as stated by the Government; that the formal

offer was previously conveyed to Defendant; that Defendant

rejected or rejects the previously extended formal offer;

that the Defendant is aware that the offer is still on the

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table; and that so far Defendant has expressed his intent to

reject the offer? On behalf of the Defense?

MR. KOHNEN: May I have just a moment, Your

Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with Defendant Yanjun Xu.)

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, we've discussed that offer

on several occasions with our client including 10 seconds

ago, and he rejects the offer.

THE COURT: Very well. I'm required to ask. I

have to ask Mr. Xu directly.

Are you aware that that offer is on the table, and

do you reject it? I'm required by law to ask.

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Yes.

THE COURT: Thank you. Next issue I want to

address is restraints. Because the Jurors will be socially

distanced, and, therefore, seated in the gallery during voir

dire and throughout trial, it's a greater likelihood that

leg shackles may be seen by the Jurors.

Therefore, the Court has elected to forego leg

shackles. The interests of security do not outweigh the

increased chance of visibility.

Can the Defense confirm that they are, however,

willing and that Mr. Xu is without restraint, no leg

shackles included?

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MR. KOHNEN: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you for that.

THE COURT: Very well. Mr. McBride's arguments

moved me.

MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: To my knowledge, there are no motions

pending. We've ruled by notation order and written order.

I expect written decisions in due course on the Motion in

Limine, Motion regarding Co-Conspirators, and Motion to

Dismiss; but they've been ruled on, for purposes of the

record, by notation order.

Does the Government acknowledge that?

MR. MANGAN: We do, your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: And the Defense as well?

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, Judge Black.

THE COURT: Very well. I want to address on the

record Defendant's request for redactions. During the final

pretrial counsel, Defense requested redaction of the

classification on the Government's exhibit.

The Court advised parties by an E-Mail that same

day that the Court, quote, is not going to order the

redaction of designations on the Government's exhibits.

Although the Defense indicated that an instruction

to the Jurors might be more problematic than helpful. If

the Defense would like to propose an instruction that might

be acceptable, the Court is willing to provide it to the

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Jury upon my approval, end quote.

So for the record, we're memorializing the Court's

ruling on that request; and while we have not received any

indication that the Defense wants any sort of instruction,

the Court remains open to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there something we should address at this time

from the Government's perspective or is the issue not yet

ripe or has it been mooted?

MR. MANGAN: I think, Your Honor, I think we can

wait on that issue.

THE COURT: Wait?

MR. MANGAN: Wait.

THE COURT: Very good.

 

 

 

THE COURT: Well, I'd like to discuss it as soon as

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we can. We don't need to do it at this moment.

MR. MANGAN: All right.

THE COURT: Is the Defense comfortable with that

approach?

 

 

 

 

 

THE COURT: Very well. You comfortable proceeding

now with that issue in limbo?

MR. KOHNEN: Again, yes. Thank you, Judge.

 

 

 

 

I believe I've walked through the issues I wished

to address before we recess, get you the re-randomized list

with numbers and pause to get ready for voir dire.

Let the record reflect on the courtroom clock it is

9:29. Is there anything the Government needs to bring to

the Court's attention before we recess for those purposes

and move closely toward commencing voir dire?

MR. MANGAN: The only thing we have, Your Honor, is

I know the Court's waiting on whether or not the parties

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have a written stipulation.

We discussed this during the final pretrial as to

some of the terms. The Government presented a written

proposal of that stipulation Friday morning. We have not

received a response from the Defense despite few requests.

THE COURT: And in what regard was the stipulation?

MR. MANGAN: This pertained to the authen -- part

of it pertained to the venue and jurisdiction, which was

discussed, as well as that certain documents were properly

authenticated under Rule 901 and 902, as well as the

authenticity and admissibility of a few other certain

exhibits, and then we also added a proposal related to the

stipulations -- excuse me -- the translations.

THE COURT: And do you have another stipulation

about IP addresses?

MR. MANGAN: That, Your Honor, we did provide. It

wasn't in the proposed stipulation we sent on Friday. We

did send the information regarding the IP addresses by

letter to the Defense yesterday along with the attachment

stating what the Government would agree to.

THE COURT: Very well, and I now recall that we

asked you to review the Court's proposed summary of the

case. The Defense responded with some proposed edits, and

we have heard nothing from you. Where are we on that?

MR. MANGAN: We have, we have no evidence, and we

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have no objection to their proposed edits.

THE COURT: You have no evidence --

MR. MANGAN: No, I'm sorry. We have no edits. We

have no changes ourselves. We saw the proposed changes from

the Defense. We have no objection to their proposal.

THE COURT: Very well. So why didn't you tell me

that by E-Mail?

MR. MANGAN: I apologize, Your Honor. We should

have --

THE COURT: When the Court sends the lawyers

E-Mails during the progress of trial with inquiries, I need

a response. Thank you.

Where are we on the stipulations from the

Defendant's perspective?

MR. KOHNEN: Judge, your second question, Mr.

Mangan was more prescient perhaps than you may know. We

were about to -- literately about to push the button

agreeing to the stipulations when we got the letter from Mr.

Mangan some time around 2:30 in the afternoon yesterday.

Judge, we didn't have enough time, frankly, to see

whether that new and very important information -- I would

label it Brady material -- would impact our position on the

stipulations or not.

We worked on it probably for three or four hours

into last evening. We do want to be heard on the subject

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generally. We're going to suggest after Jury selection and

opening statements, we perhaps could get a moment of the

Court's time.

However, a very long winded way of saying, that

last minute, a bit of very important information perhaps --

I can't say yet whether it has -- but perhaps has

re-oriented our position with respect to these stipulations.

May I just a moment, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with Mr. McBride.)

MR. KOHNEN: Always wise to consult with my

colleague, Mr. McBride, Your Honor. I think ultimately that

there's a good chance we're going to stipulate two things

that a record's custodian would otherwise have to come in

and say, but you'll understand that we have to make darn

sure of that at this point.

THE COURT: I'll understand what?

MR. KOHNEN: That we have to make darn sure of that

at this point.

THE COURT: Indeed. So soon?

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, Your Honor, soon.

THE COURT: Very well. I'm smiling behind the

mask. I asked if the Government had anything for me before

we recess? Is there is anything further from the

Government?

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MR. MANGAN: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Does the Defense have any items they

wish to address that we haven't addressed before we recess?

MR. KOHNEN: No. Thank you, Judge.

THE COURT: Very well. We're going to recess. Is

30 minutes appropriate or more or less?

MR. FRANKIAN: I think 20 to 30 minutes should be

fine.

THE COURT: We're going to recess for 20 minutes

unless we whisper to you at that point we need ten more

minutes. So we're in recess.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. This court is now in

recess.

(Court was in recess at 9:34 a.m. and resumed at 10:12 a.m.)

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. Court is back in

session pursuant to the recess.

THE COURT: Please be seated. We're back in the

courtroom on the record. Government lawyer and team is

here. Defense lawyer and team and the Defendant and the

interpreter are here.

We are ready, I believe, to go get the 40

Prospective Jurors. Is the Government ready or got anything

else before we proceed in that way?

MR. MANGAN: We are ready, Your Honor.

THE COURT: And the Defense?

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MR. KOHNEN: Indeed, Your Honor, we're ready.

THE COURT: Very well. Ms. Santoro, we call for

the Prospective Jurors. We'll sit quietly here off the

record.

(Discussion held off the record.)

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise for the Jury.

(Prospective Jurors entered the courtroom.)

THE COURT: As the Jurors join us, you may be

seated. As the Jurors join us, you may be seated.

Prospective Jurors that have joined us, you may all be

seated.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am Judge

Timothy S. Black, one of the judges of this Federal Court.

We're here in the United States District Court for the

Southern District of Ohio. We're on the record in session

on the criminal case of the United States of America versus

Yanjun Xu.

I want to welcome you all here today. I'll be

responsible for presiding at this proceeding for which

you've been summonsed.

I want to thank you and welcome you. I realize

that being here presents some degree of inconvenience for

all of you, but I assure you that your presence is of the

upmost importance to the proceedings that are to begin here

today.

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I'd like to say that Jury service is a sacrifice

required by democracy, but I acknowledge in the first

instance that we have interrupted your lives, and we are

grateful for your presence.

I want to introduce you to some of the people in

the courtroom. I'm going to start with the people who work

for me.

Rebecca Santoro is our courtroom deputy. She

administers oaths to Prospective Jurors, to those selected

to serve on the Jury, and to witnesses. She handles the

exhibits during trial. She opens, recesses, and adjourns

court. I couldn't do my job without her.

Julie Hohenstein is one of our court reporters.

She is and will continue to take down every word spoken

during the course of the proceedings by stenotype machine.

My law clerk -- my career law clerk is Cristina

Frankian. She's an attorney. She assists me with all legal

work, including research and court orders, and I absolutely

could not do my job without her.

In a few minutes I'll ask the other persons who are

present in the well of the courtroom to introduce

themselves; but I first want to explain why you're here, and

what we're doing at this point in time.

You're here today as Potential Jurors in the case

of the United States of America versus Yanjun Xu. This is a

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criminal case where the United States has alleged that the

Defendant, Yanjun Xu, committed four Federal offenses,

including, one, Conspiracy to Commit Economic Espionage;

Two, Conspiracy to Commit Trade Secret Theft;

Three, Attempted Economic Espionage; and

Four, Attempted Trade Secret Theft.

The Defendant, Mr. Xu, denies the charges. He is

presumed innocent.

You must bear in mind that the Defendant is

presumed innocent unless and until the Government proves by

competent evidence beyond a reasonable doubt his guilt.

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt means proof which

is so convincing that you would not hesitate to rely and act

upon it in making the most important decisions in your own

lives.

Today we hope to be complete with Jury selection by

early afternoon. Those of you selected as Jurors in this

case will be given some preliminary instructions and then

perhaps we will hear opening statements from the lawyers

today.

At some point before opening statements, we will

also break for lunch. This is going to be a substantial

trial, and I know that with COVID, among other things, it's

a difficult time to be in a new environment; but I want

you all to know that the court, its judge, will do

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everything possible to ensure that you are safe and

comfortable.

First of all, I'm pleased to tell you that every

Prospective Juror in this room is fully vaccinated and has

indicated that they're willing to wear a mask during the

Court proceedings. Same goes for the lawyers and staff. I

hope that gives you some level of comfort.

Additionally, although we couldn't accomplish it at

this very moment with 40 plus Prospective Jurors, those of

you that are selected will be seated in a socially distanced

manner. We won't have 16 of you in the box, and we'll be

providing you lunch each day, so you won't have to go in and

out constantly.

But, like I said, this is going to be a long trial,

and that is in part why I asked everyone to fill out a

lengthy questionnaire.

As I indicated on the questionnaire and the

accompanying letter, this trial may go as long as

December 1, 2021. I don't think it will, but we need to be

prepared for that.

If you're selected as a Juror, please note that

we're not going to be in trial on Thursday, November 11 in

observance of Veterans Day. We're also going to be off for

Thanksgiving on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. So the

week of Thanksgiving we're not in court on Wednesday,

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November 24; Thursday, November 25; and Friday, November 26

to be certain that you have an opportunity to get a full

plate of turkey and a short break.

We may well also take a half day off on November 2

so we all have a chance to vote. You can get that behind

you early, that's a credit to you.

Other than the days that I've just identified,

we'll likely be in court every day, Monday through Friday.

We generally start every day 9:30 a.m., and we'll try to end

around 4:30 p.m.

That means you'll need to be at the courthouse

every morning by 9:15 a.m. at the latest, so we can bring

you into the courtroom at 9:30 if we're able.

Each day, there will be an hour and a fifteen

minute break for lunch from about noon until 1:15. We'll

also take two 15-minute breaks; one mid-morning break about

10:30 to 10:45, and one break in the afternoon about 2:45

until three.

So introduction to voir dire. As I mentioned,

you're all here as Prospective Jurors in this case. The

process of Jury selection is known as voir dire, and it's

the parties opportunity with the Court's assistance to

determine which 15 of you will be chosen to sit as Jurors in

this case.

The words voir dire literately mean to see and to

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say, but they've come to mean to speak the truth. That's

exactly what we must do here.

The process of voir dire requires the Court -- the

Judge -- and then the attorneys to ask questions of you in

order to determine whether you should participate as a Juror

in this case or whether it would be better to excuse you

from service in this particular case. In response to the

questions posed by the Court and counsel, you must speak the

truth.

Those of you who are chosen as Jurors will have an

indispensable and unique function to perform. You'll be

carrying out a mandate of the United States Constitution,

which states that any person accused of a crime is entitled

to a fair trial by an impartial Jury. Thus, under the

Constitution, it will be up to you to decide the case.

Before I go further, I would like now to ask the

parties to stand and introduce themselves. I'll start with

the Government.

On behalf of the Government, would you please

stand, introduce yourselves, and those present at counsel

table?

MR. MANGAN: Good morning, everyone. My name is

Tim Mangan. I'm an Assistant U. S. Attorney here in

Cincinnati.

MS. GLATFELTER: Good morning. My name is Emily

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Glatfelter. I'm also an Assistant U.S. Attorney here in

Cincinnati.

MR. McKENZIE: Good morning. My name is Matthew

McKenzie. I'm a trial attorney with the Department of

Justice.

MR. HULL: Good morning. My name is Bradley Hull.

I'm a Special Agent with the F.B.I.

THE COURT: Thank you. Would you please be seated.

Would Defense counsel please stand and introduce yourselves

and your client?

MR. KOHNEN: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. Ladies

and gentlemen, good morning. My name is Ralph Kohnen. I'm

an attorney here in Cincinnati, and I represent our client,

Mr. Xu.

You'll hear a number of different pronunciations,

but I've been struggling to say it right, and I just got the

nod from Mr. Xu. Would you stand and introduce yourself?

Say good morning to the Jury.

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Good morning.

THE COURT: And with us is a translator, who's been

phenomenal. Her name is Mae Harmon.

THE INTERPRETER: Good morning.

MR. MIEDEL: Good morning. My name is Florian

Miedel. I'm also an attorney for Mr. Xu.

MS. CORS: Good morning, everyone. My name is

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Jeanne Cors, and I'm also representing Mr. Xu.

MS. TAYLOR: Good morning, everyone. My name is

Sanna-Rae Taylor, and I'm an attorney representing Mr. Xu.

MS. JOHNSON: Good morning. My name is Amanda

Johnson, and I am an attorney representing Mr. Xu.

MR. McBRIDE: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

My name is Bob McBride. I'm one of the attorneys

representing Mr. Xu.

MS. LYNCH: Good morning. My name is Courtney

Lynch, and I'm also an attorney representing Mr. Xu.

THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Xu, did I pronounce

your name correctly?

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Almost.

THE COURT: Will you say it to me? And forgive me

for my lack of pronunciation skills. Just stand up and tell

me your name?

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Xu.

THE COURT: Xu?

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Xu.

THE INTERPRETER: Xu.

DEFENDANT YANJUN XU: Xu.

THE COURT: Xu? He's the Defendant. He's well

represented by counsel. If I mispronounce his name, it's on

me and nobody else. You may be seated. Thank you.

At this time I'm going to ask Ms. Santoro to

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administer the oath to the Prospective Jurors. This oath is

simply to make certain that your answers to our questions

are complete and truthful.

To get your juices flowing, would you stand,

please, and raise your right hand for the oath?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: You, and each of you, do

solemnly swear or affirm that the answers you give to the

questions in this proceeding shall be the truth, the whole

truth, and nothing but the truth. Please respond by saying

I do.

ALL PROSPECTIVE JURORS: I do.

THE COURT: Thank you. You may be seated. Now,

that you've been sworn, we can actually formally begin the

process of selecting 15 Jurors.

The process is simple enough. I'm going to ask you

some questions, and then the lawyers for each side get an

opportunity to ask questions; and our questions are designed

to make sure that you have no bias or prejudice for or

against either side.

Some of these questions may seem personal. Please

do not be offended. If a question seems personal or if

you're particularly sensitive about answering a specific

question, please know that the attorneys are not trying to

make you uncomfortable or to embarrass you, so you must not

hold it against them.

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The attorneys are required to ask questions they

believe will ensure empaneling a full and impartial Jury in

this case.

If anybody asks you a question that you're not

comfortable answering in open court, you may approach the

bench and discuss your answers in private.

Also, always keep in mind that voir dire means to

speak the truth. Even if the answer to your question means

you might have a bias, do not hesitate to answer that

question truthfully.

Your own desire to participate in this case cannot

outweigh the fact that the fairness and impartiality of each

Juror is crucial to a fair trial.

After the lawyers have had an opportunity to

question you, after I have, we'll take a break -- which we

call a recess -- while I'll confer with the lawyers and the

parties; and when we come back in session -- reconvene --

I'll announce the numbers of those of you who have been

selected.

If you're not chosen for the Jury, you must

understand that this is not a reflection on your character,

your integrity, or your fitness to serve.

Each side is afforded the opportunity to excuse

Jurors for any reason that is not unlawful or for no reason

at all. So if you're excused, please do not feel slighted

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or offended.

Once we have seated 15 Jurors, we'll have our Jury,

and those 15 will be sworn in to Jury duty. We're now

prepared to begin.

Please listen carefully to the questions that I and

the attorneys are about to ask. Questions will be addressed

to everyone -- both those in the Jury box and those in the

back in the gallery.

If your answer to any of the questions is yes,

please raise your hand, and I'll call on you. When I call

on you, please stand so we can hear you, and first announce

the Juror Number you were given this morning. We may then

ask you some follow-up questions. I believe we have

microphones that we can use to assist you, if required.

Please do not forget to announce your Juror Number

when we call on you. In our list all Jurors are organized

numerically, so it makes it very difficult to keep track of

your responses if you do not give us your Juror Number. I

ask you to stand purely for the reason that I can probably

hear you better.

When speaking up, speak as loud as you can when

answering a question. Particularly with masks on, it's very

hard to hear unless you really project your voice, and I

believe we have microphones that will help; but if at any

point you can't hear the questions being asked by me or the

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attorneys, please raise your hand and let us know.

Is there anybody having trouble hearing me?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. All right. As you know,

the Government is represented by Attorneys Emily Glatfelter,

Tim Mangan, and Matthew McKenzie. Ms. Glatfelter and Mr.

Mangan work for the United States Attorney's Office. Mr.

McKenzie is with the Department of Justice.

Also seated at counsel table and introduced to you

is the Government's representative in this case, F.B.I.

Special Agent Bradley Hull.

Are you, or any member of your immediate family,

personally acquainted with, related to by blood or marriage,

or connected in any way with either of the attorneys for the

Government or with Agent Hull?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Does anyone personally know

the Government's attorneys or Agent Hull in any capacity?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Does anyone here work for or

do you know someone who works for the United States

Attorney's Office?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No answers. Yes. Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm Juror 21.

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THE COURT: Yes, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work for the United States

Department of Agriculture, and I interact frequently with

the United States Assistant Attorney Bill King.

THE COURT: And do you think you could be a fair

and impartial Juror when although on occasion you work with

them and specifically Mr. King?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir. The Defendant, Yanjun

Xu, and his attorneys, Ralph Kohnen, Jeanne Cors, Bob

McBride, Sanna-Rae Taylor, all of whom are with the Taft Law

Firm, as well as Attorney Florian Miedel of Miedel Law Firm,

the interpreter is here next to the Defendant, Mae Harmon.

First, are you, or any member of your immediate

family, personally acquainted with, related to by blood or

marriage, or connected in any way with Yanjun Xu?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Does anyone personally know

Yanjun Xu in any capacity, the Defendant?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Are you, or is any member of

your immediate family, personally acquainted with, related

to by blood or marriage, connected in any way with any of

the Defense attorneys?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

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THE COURT: No hands. Does anyone personally know

anyone who works at Taft, the law firm, in any capacity?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 14.

THE COURT: Yes.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I know several attorneys at

Taft Law, including Ron Christian and Marcia Andrew.

THE COURT: And are these friends or professional

colleagues?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: One is a -- one represents the

foundation that I'm the president of, Ron Christian.

THE COURT: And does your relationship with him

affect your ability to be a fair and impartial Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

THE COURT: What is the foundation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It's the foundation for Atrium

Medical Center a hospital in Middletown, Ohio.

THE COURT: Thank you for speaking up, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you.

THE COURT: Does anyone know Ms. Harmon, the

interpreter, in any capacity -- we got another hand in the

back. I'm sorry, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 39. I know Gregg

Rogers, who is an attorney with Taft Law Firm.

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THE COURT: So do I. Would that knowledge and

relationship affect your ability to be a fair and impartial

Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.

THE COURT: Does he represent you or your company?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.

THE COURT: Is a friend?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He's a member of my church.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you for speaking up.

Does anyone know Ms. Harmon in any capacity?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. I'm going to read a list of

people who may be witnesses in this case. There are a bunch

of names. I'm going to ask you if they sound familiar or if

you think you know somebody by that name.

James Mulvenon?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Stijn Berrevoets?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Todd Vokas?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Agent Bradley Hull?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Jason Wang?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

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THE COURT: David Zheng?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Nick Kray?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Eric Ritter?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Rizwan Ramakdawala?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Arthur Gao?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Michael Reigle?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Sun Li?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Adam James?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Frederic Hascoet?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: James Olson?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Lily Tang Williams?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Colonel James A. Schnell?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I saw no hands. Is anyone related to

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any of the individuals that I just named?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Is anyone personally acquainted with

any of those -- these persons or do you have any knowledge

of them directly or in-directly through your social,

business, or personal, or professional lives?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Does anyone know any of my staff in any

capacity: Rebecca Santoro, Courtroom Deputy?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Julie Hohenstein, one of my court

reporters?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Cristina Frankian, my law clerk?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Do any of you know anyone who works in

the courthouse, this courthouse?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hand.)

THE COURT: There's a hand up.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 21. In my

professional capacity you're deciding a matter for the

United States Department of Agriculture versus a property

owner in Clermont County.

THE COURT: Right. Is that going to affect your

ability to be a fair and impartial Juror?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you. Anyone else

know anyone in the courthouse?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Well, for Pete's sake. Do any of you

know me?

(Laughter.)

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Other than the gentleman who spoke who

doesn't know me per se, I don't believe, do you, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.

THE COURT: Very well. Do any of you know or

possibly recognize any of your fellow Jurors here today?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No response. So one final time, do any

of you recognize any of the names that have been mentioned

here today?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Do you know anyone you've been

introduced to here today?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Do you know anyone you've seen in the

courthouse today?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Or do you know anyone that you see in

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this courtroom currently that you haven't identified?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Do any of you personally

know the Defendant, Yanjun Xu, in any capacity?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No response. Ms. Frankian, can you

approach, please?

(The Court confers with Ms. Frankian.)

THE COURT: The Defendant in this case, Yanjun Xu,

has been charged with four Federal offenses, I told you:

Conspiracy to Commit Economic Espionage, Conspiracy to

Commit Trade Secret Theft, Attempted Economic Espionage,

Attempted Trade Secret Theft. The Defendant has pled not

guilty to the charges, and the Defendant is presumed

innocent.

Does anyone have any personal interest of any kind

in this case or in this Defendant or do you know anyone who

may have such a special interest?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Has anyone here served as a Juror in a

criminal or civil case or as a member of the Grand Jury in

either Federal or State court?

(No Prospective Juror in the Jury box raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands in the box.

(Prospective Jurors raised their hand.)

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THE COURT: I see one in the gallery. Sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 20. I have served on a

Jury before in Hamilton County Courts.

THE COURT: If you'll keep your voice up. You

served as a Juror before. Is that what you said, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. Yes.

THE COURT: And without telling me the outcome,

don't tell me the outcome, can you please tell me what kind

of case it was? Do you know if it was criminal or civil?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It was criminal.

THE COURT: Very well. Were you the foreperson?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was not.

THE COURT: Do you understand that in a case like

you served, a criminal case, and in this case, which is a

criminal case, that the burden of proof is that the

prosecutor must prove the Defendant's guilt beyond a

reasonable doubt?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I certainly understand that.

THE COURT: And is there anything about your prior

service in the other case that would affect your ability to

be a fair and impartial Juror in this case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don't see how.

THE COURT: You said, I don't see how; is that

right?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. I said I don't see how.

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The, the -- the more exact easy answer is no.

THE COURT: All right. And I'm not picking on you.

I'm an old man. I can't hear you.

Would your service on the prior case affect your

ability to be a fair and impartial Juror in this case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

THE COURT: And you're going to think I'm really

old, but what's your Juror Number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 20.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Are any of you currently

employed or were you previously employed by any Federal,

State, or local law enforcement agency, i.e., e.g., the

F.B.I., military police, State Highway Patrol, county

sheriff, any previous -- any police department?

I'm asking about you. Is there anyone who is in or

has that employment history?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. I know some of you

indicated on your questionnaires that you have a family

member or members who are currently or were previously

employed with a Federal, State, or local law enforcement

agency.

From those of you who have family members who are

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or were members of law enforcement, do you believe that you

will be unable to serve as a fair and impartial Juror on

that basis?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. Would anyone here have

trouble returning a verdict of not guilty if the Government

fails to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Would anybody here have trouble

returning a verdict of guilty if the evidence proves guilt

beyond a reasonable doubt?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Okay. Does anyone have any prior

knowledge or information about this particular case? This

includes knowledge gained from personal contacts from the

media or from the Internet.

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. Very well. In the

questionnaire that we sent to each of you, there was a

question asking you about any opinions or beliefs you may

have regarding China, the Chinese culture, Chinese Communist

Party, or the Chinese Government, and many of you said that

you did have certain opinions or beliefs.

But most importantly, most, if not all, of you

answered the next question by saying that your opinions or

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beliefs about China would not impact your ability to serve

as an impartial Juror.

The specific question specifically ask, quote, in

the event any party, attorney, or witness in this case is a

Chinese citizen, or if any of the evidence relates to China,

do you believe that your opinions or beliefs would impact

your ability to serve as an impartial Juror?

Most, if not all, of you said no. I want to ask

everyone that question again, because it's incredibly

important.

Mr. Xu is a Chinese citizen, and in this case you

will hear about China and the Chinese Government, and you'll

likely hear testimony of witnesses from different countries

and of different ethnicities; but China and the Chinese

Government are not on trial here.

Mr. Xu is the Defendant charged in this case, and

he is presumed innocent. I want to make sure that everyone

understands and acknowledges, accepts this critical point,

so I want to ask you again, is there anyone here who thinks

they cannot serve as a fair and impartial Juror or anyone

who thinks they cannot presume Mr. Xu's innocence due to

your opinions and beliefs about the China or Chinese

Government?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. Is there anyone here

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who believes that their opinions about people of different

ethnicities and nationalities would interfere with their

ability to serve as a fair and impartial Juror?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Is there any reason in your mind why

you cannot hear and consider the evidence in this case and

render a fair and impartial verdict?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. Does anyone have

feelings, thoughts, inclinations, or beliefs which might

influence or interfere with your full and impartial

consideration in which might influence you either in favor

of or against the Defendant or the Government?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. As a Juror, you will be

required to take the law as the Court -- as this Judge

instructs you without any reservation and with disregard of

any other ideas, notions, or beliefs about the law that you

may have and apply the facts based on the evidence in this

case to the Judge's instructions on the law only.

Is there anyone here who believes -- does not

believe he or she can do this? So if I tell you the law

says X, and you say, well, I didn't think that was right. I

don't think it should be. Will you follow my instruction of

the law and set aside any other thoughts?

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(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

THE COURT: Very well. Is there anyone here who

cannot recognize and accept the proposition that only Jurors

can judge the facts? The Jury is going to decide what the

facts are. I'm not. You are.

And then I will tell you the law, and you'll apply

the facts to the law recognizing that I'm the sole judge of

the law.

Is there anyone who cannot abide by that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. If you are selected as a

Juror in this case, can you extend the presumption of

innocence to the Defendant?

That is, can you presume, as you must, that the

Defendant is innocent of the charge or a charge unless and

until guilt is established by proof that convinces you

beyond a reasonable doubt of the guilt? If you cannot do

this, please hold up your hand.

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Because the Defendant is presumed

innocent, he has no obligation to do or say anything to

prove his innocence; therefore, the Defendant has the right

to choose not to present evidence and/or not to testify.

And if he chooses to exercise the right not to

testify or not to present any evidence, no Juror can hold

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that decision against him.

We asked a question about should a Defendant

testify. You guys answered it. I'm telling you, as a

matter of law, like anyone charged with a crime in this free

country, he's presumed innocent unless and until guilt is

established beyond a reasonable doubt; and he has no

obligation to present evidence or to testify or to tell his

side of the story, and you cannot hold that against him if

he exercises that right.

Is there anyone here who believes they cannot

accept or abide by the fact that the Defendant has no

obligation to prove his innocence, to present evidence, or

to testify?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Is there anyone here who understands

that the Defendant has the right to choose not to testify or

present evidence, but who would hold that decision against

the Defendant in any way?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No hands. I really banged on this.

It's the essence of a criminal trial. He's presumed

innocent. Guilt has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

He has no obligation to say or do anything, including

testify.

Is there anyone who can't abide by that?

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(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Does anyone here have any

bias or prejudice based solely on the fact that the

Defendant has been charged with these offenses against the

United States?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: So there's nobody sitting here

thinking, well, he got charged; he must be guilty? If

you're thinking that, put it out of your mind.

Does anyone have any bias or prejudice based solely

on the fact that the Defendant has been charged?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Is there anyone here who has already

formed or expressed any opinion as to the guilt or innocent

-- innocence of the Defendant?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. You've all got an open

mind. You've heard my instructions. Forgive me for asking,

does anyone have any disabilities, such as difficulty

sitting, hearing, or seeing or staying awake?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I've got a hand up in the gallery.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm Juror 38.

THE COURT: 38. Let me get to my page. Yes?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have narcolepsy.

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THE COURT: You have what, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Narcolepsy.

THE COURT: Okay. You fall asleep on occasion?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I take medications that helps.

THE COURT: If you're going to be a Juror, you

can't be falling asleep during the evidence, and you have a

legitimate medical condition that you're taking medication

for.

Are you concerned that your narcolepsy will

interfere with your ability to stay awake and hear the

evidence when we're in session?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Thank you. Would you be offended if we

see you nodding to suggest good morning to you?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. I would not be offended.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you. Somebody in the

Jury box. I'm sorry, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir, Juror Number 4. I do

have a hearing loss, and I have hearing aids, and I'll be

fine. It does not affect me.

THE COURT: Do you think I should get hearing aids?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It's your choice, sir. It was

recommended by my wife.

THE COURT: I have a wife as well. You may be

seated.

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Get them.

THE COURT: What number are you? I didn't hear

you.

(Laughter.)

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Number 4, sir.

THE COURT: I did hear you. Anybody else have

difficulty staying awake? Particularly if something gets

boring.

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Does anyone here have any

medical issues or health concerns that have not been

identified in the courtroom today that you believe could

interfere with your ability to serve as a Juror? I need to

ask.

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: No responses. The Court and the

attorneys estimate that this trial may take weeks, several

weeks, possibly until December 1.

Everyone who's present here today indicated on

their supplemental questionnaires or on follow-up that they

are, in fact, able to serve during this time; but I want to

ask everyone once, again, does anyone have any family, work,

or personal circumstances because of which you believe you

cannot serve as a Juror during the entire trial and give it

your undivided attention?

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(Some Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

THE COURT: All right. We're going to walk through

these. The gentleman in the front row?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 7.

THE COURT: Yes.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I had re-constructive hand

surgery, and I'm -- I just started physical therapy last

week, and I don't know how, how the scheduling is going to

go for me to continue my physical therapy and to see my

surgeon.

THE COURT: We're going to be in session Monday

through Friday, except the days I identified, from 9:30 to

4:30.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.

THE COURT: Is that going to interfere? Can you

reschedule your physical therapy or do you want to do it

with me or --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Trying to do that now so that I

could try to have the therapy sessions in the morning.

THE COURT: Before 9:30?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Before 9:30, yes, sir.

THE COURT: Such that you would get here at 9:15?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: (Prospective Juror nods head

affirmatively.)

THE COURT: Is that yes?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's yes.

THE COURT: And what's the word?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: So far I've got tomorrow

scheduled. It's 7:30 so I should be -- that should give me

enough time, but I've got to see how, how they can work the

scheduling out.

THE COURT: Did you do physical therapy yet? Have

you had a session yet?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: What do you do generally?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, they have me doing all

different types of (Indicating) --

THE COURT: All right. I'll help you.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.

THE COURT: All right.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, picking up things, that

type of thing.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you.

THE COURT: You may be seated. There was someone

in the second row of the box?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 15.

THE COURT: Give me a moment to get to your number.

Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Unfortunately, about a month

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ago my wife and I were in an accident where somebody rear

ended us, and my wife has two fractured vertebrae and a

pinched nerve, and she has a hard time functioning by

herself during the day.

We haven't got any -- anywhere with the doctors

yet, so I don't know how long that's going to last.

THE COURT: Is that going to impact your ability to

be here as a Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: If she would need me there for

something, yes.

THE COURT: Well, tell me, tell me her condition

and whether you're going to be needed there?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, she has a hard time

walking or even helping herself around the house, and the

other factor is we have a five-year old granddaughter that

we babysit every day until she gets on the bus to go to

school. It would be very difficult for her to do that.

THE COURT: So tell me why you didn't tell us that

in your questionnaire?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Well, at the time that I did --

I filled out the questionnaire, it didn't seem like it was

going to be a problem; but as the month has progressed, she

has gotten continually worse.

THE COURT: I'm sorry to hear that. How are you

doing?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Fine. I mean, I had enough

problems already before the accident. Nothing else happened

to me.

THE COURT: Do you need the name of a good lawyer?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We're talking to someone in

Lebanon.

THE COURT: That was a joke. Trying to keep --

(Laughter.)

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I know.

THE COURT: I'm trying to keep it light. Thank you

for speaking up. I'm sorry. 15. I'm not going to excuse

anybody until we get through everything. Got another hand

in the box?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 9.

THE COURT: Nine?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Nine.

THE COURT: All right. Hang on. I'm going to get

to the page, and you're going to speak up, please.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: So I had a filling fall out of

my tooth earlier this week. It has, like, an exposed nerve.

Pretty uncomfortable, and I need to try to get an

appointment made. If this is going to be lasting --

THE COURT: Keep your voice up.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: If this is going to last until

December 1st, I was just wondering if I would be able to get

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--

THE COURT: I'm sorry. You need to stop and keep

your voice up.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: So I have a filling --

THE COURT: I know about the filling.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I just didn't know where I lost

you. I need to make an appointment, and my dentist is not

open on the weekends.

THE COURT: Right.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: So that is a scheduling

conflict.

THE COURT: Can you do it the week of Thanksgiving,

or you're not going to be able to make it to that?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have to check and see if they

are open the week of Thanksgiving as well. Like I said,

this is very recently. That's why I didn't have it on my

questionnaire.

THE COURT: I understand.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'd like to work with you guys

too. I just need to know if that's going to be a huge

inconvenience for the courts.

THE COURT: There are a couple options. The days

we are not in court, if you can get an appointment, that

wouldn't interfere. We might take a break for you to have

your an appointment if we had to. Would you mind if we all

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came with you?

(Laughter.)

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh, sure.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you, sir. Now, I'm

out of the box and into the gallery. Way back in the back

row. Distinguished gentleman with the white hair and black

mask?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Juror Number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Number 40.

THE COURT: Wait until I get to the page. Yes,

sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: So I have Stage 4 Lung Cancer.

Just recently diagnosed. I'm on drugs that are maintaining

my health right now.

I can't guarantee how I will feel, let's say, six

weeks from now. It's an ongoing every day thing. So I just

wanted to make the Court aware of that.

THE COURT: I appreciate you speaking up, and in

the first instance, I regret the diagnosis of recent time.

I want you to stay positive and alive.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Thank you.

THE COURT: You're taking the medicine. Has it

interfered with your abilities?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: As of now, no, but --

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THE COURT: You just don't know what's going to

happen in the future?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not know what's going to

happen. I'm 79 years old. I can't predict exactly how this

is going to affect me, so I'm just making the Court aware.

THE COURT: You're 79 years old?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: You're an inspiration. I hope to make

it to 79, and I hope you make it for a long time thereafter.

Thank you for speaking up.

Are there any other hands in the gallery?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Juror Number 40? Maybe it wasn't 40.

The cancer survivor. Who is the cancer survivor?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Me.

THE COURT: All right. I'm trying to ask you

another question. Can you hear me?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: You know over 70 is the basis for an

automatic exclusion. Do you wish to be exclude -- excused?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: On that basis, not necessarily,

no. I know that is an exclusion in some, some states, some

courts. It was never asked of me when I filled out the

questionnaire. I didn't know it was going to be the

appropriate time to bring it up until now.

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THE COURT: Well, now I'm bringing it up. Do you

want to be excused because you're over 70?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Possibly under the

circumstances it would be the best thing. I can't say it's

the age as much as the medicine that that could affect.

THE COURT: Very well. Thank you. One last time,

do you want to be excused?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir. So we were talking

about -- and I have no other hands, I don't believe, and

here it is again, and I'm not fishing for excuses.

Does anybody have any family, work, or personal

circumstances because of which you believe you cannot serve

as a Juror during the entire trial and give it your

undivided attention?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 16.

THE COURT: Let me get to the paperwork, please.

Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Seeing as you're stressing it,

I do have a child with a health condition, congenital heart

disease, and I have an appointment, you know, to undergo

some routine check-ups; so if that were to, you know, go

south or there be some issue, then I would need to attend,

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that would be of an issue.

THE COURT: I'm going to ask you to speak up. I

heard that you have a child --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sorry.

THE COURT: -- with a health condition -- let me

tell what you I heard.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.

THE COURT: I think I heard you have a child with a

health condition. Might be a heart condition?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: May require periodic medical

appointments for the child. Is that what you're telling me?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He has one appointment

scheduled within the next six weeks, so if something were to

arise at that appointment, that would, you know, I'd

probably like to be there; but I don't know the outcome of

that.

THE COURT: Right. And the appointment that you do

have, do you know when it is?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I couldn't tell you off the top

of my head. I'm kind of bad with dates.

THE COURT: Welcome to the club.

(Laughter.)

THE COURT: So you just can't promise us that

something might come up that required you?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Correct, sir.

THE COURT: Okay. Anyone else need to discuss with

me responses to that question?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Do any of you have

significant transportation issues that might interfere with

your ability to be present for court on time every day as

instructed?

Let me say that I understand that traffic is

difficult and unpredictable. I'm sorry for that

inconvenience, but my question refers to significant

transportation issues.

For example, you do not have a car; you don't have

a license; if you live 75 or more miles one way from the

courthouse; does anyone have that type of significant

transportation issue that might interfere with your ability

to be here on time every day as instructed?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Nobody's going to tell me tomorrow that

they don't have a car. They don't have a license. They

live too far away; is that right?

Everyone's telling me that you can be here every

day by 9:15 with court ending at about 4:30; correct?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Finally, can any of you

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think of any matter that you should call to the Court's

attention that we have not already discussed which may have

some impact on your qualifications as a Juror or that even

to the slightest degree may prevent you from rendering a

fair and impartial verdict based solely upon the evidence

and my instructions as to the law?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I've been at this a long time. I've

picked a lot of juries, and in almost every one, day two,

three or four of trial somebody comes up with, oops, forgot

about a pre-planned vacation. I didn't tell you this. I

didn't tell you that.

Every one in the room has indicated that you're

able to render a fair and impartial verdict based solely

upon the evidence and my instructions, you'll apply the

presumption of innocence, and you can get here every day on

time and participate through till the end of trial unless we

chatted already; is that right?

(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

THE COURT: Anybody need to tell me anything now?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 10, I recently got

a job offer as of last Friday, and I have to do drug testing

and --

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THE COURT: Stop. I'm sorry. You got a job offer

last Friday?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, and I have to do drug

testing and a physical, and they already have scheduled

those for me.

THE COURT: And they also what?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: A drug test and a physical, and

they have those scheduled for me, but they haven't --

they're telling me later today, so I'm not sure if that

would be a conflict with this or not.

THE COURT: What are they telling you?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: When those dates are that I

have to take those.

THE COURT: And they haven't told you that yet?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, they're telling me today at

12.

THE COURT: So they haven't told you yet?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: They're going to tell you today when

the testing is?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: Do you have any clue when it is? I'll

drug test you.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sometime next week. They

usually want me to get it by next Wednesday.

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THE COURT: Where are they located?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: They're in Cincinnati. I'm not

sure of the exact location.

THE COURT: They do the drug testing and physical,

do they do it or do they send you somewhere?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: They send me somewhere.

THE COURT: So maybe we can schedule that?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Uh-huh.

THE COURT: You have to do it this week?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: They'd like me to.

THE COURT: Well, thank you for speaking up. You

were so good at speaking up. I lost your Juror Number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Ten.

THE COURT: Thank you. Congratulations if those

are in order. Anybody else? Back to Number 10. When's

this job going to start?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It's supposed to start Monday.

THE COURT: Well, then you can't be a Juror; is

that right?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: Is this a really good job?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: I didn't hear you. I was teasing but

go ahead and answer. Do you want to take the job?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

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THE COURT: Thank you for speaking up. Anybody

else? Sir, I'm really pleased you're here and spoke up, but

it wasn't until the last question I figured out that he's

going to be working at a new job. You need to tell me now

if you can't do this. Is there -- I've asked you the

questions.

Is there anyone else who needs to speak with me

about ability to serve throughout the trial and every day?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Thank you. Okay. You survived my

questions. The lawyers now have a chance to ask questions.

The lawyers answer to me. You're in good shape. Brace

yourself.

On behalf of the Government, you get to go first,

who will be inquiring?

MR. MANGAN: Me, me, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. Would you tell me your name

again?

MR. MANGAN: Good morning, everyone. My name is

Tim Mangan. I'm with the U.S. Attorney's Office. I want to

echo the Court's sentiments earlier about thanking you for

coming.

You know, having Jury trials with Juries from our

peers is such a bedrock principle for our justice system.

It just can't operate without you. Especially in

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challenging times, we really appreciate you coming in.

I'm going to ask some questions. At times, some

questions for individuals. We don't mean to pry. We don't

want to get into personal lives. It's just part of the

process for us to try to make sure we have a fair and

impartial Jury for both the Defense and the Government going

forward.

Everyone puts in a lot of time. There's a lot

involved in these cases, and so it's important for us to get

through this process as efficiently as we can. I'll try to

be brief as best I can.

First of all, this case is going to involve --

there may be an instance or two where the Government has

used someone as a cooperating witness.

If you've ever heard of that phrase before, where

they approach someone and then that person, an individual

cooperates with the investigation -- in this case

cooperating with the F.B.I.

Does anybody have any concerns or problems with law

enforcement using cooperating witnesses in their

investigations?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: And feel free to just raise your hand

if you do, and we can talk about it.

It's a technique that's used. You've maybe seen

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them on TV, but it's called using a cooperator or

cooperating witness.

Does anybody at all have a concern with that or a

problem with that kind of technique?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. Let me ask you as well, if

you hear testimony from a witness who's been convicted of a

crime, you may be instructed to examine their testimony with

greater caution.

Does anybody feel that they would have any

particular concerns about trying to evaluate the testimony

of a witness who may have been convicted of a crime?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Feel free to raise your hand if you

have any -- anything? No concerns?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you. Let me

follow-up specifically, I know -- Number 21. Just a

follow-up. Thank you for indicating kind of where you work.

I understand you work with another government agency;

correct?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And as part of that, you

have, it sounds like, one case with one of the attorneys at

the U.S. Attorney's Office?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Is it simply one case

you're working on?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Currently, yes.

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: With the possibility of others.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And is that a civil case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It is.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And that's strictly in your

professional capacity? You don't have any personal

relationship with the Assistant U.S. Attorney; correct?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Correct.

MR. MANGAN: And, and do you have any association

or relationship with any of the attorneys that work on the

criminal side of that office?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And in your work capacity,

have you had any interactions with the Federal prosecutors

locally?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'm sorry. Are you asking

about the case that I brought up?

MR. MANGAN: No. You mentioned that was a civil

case.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Oh, okay, yes. I had no

interactions on the criminal side.

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MR. MANGAN: Okay. And I realize you work for a

different department of the Government. Given all that, you

still believe you could be a fair and impartial Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you, sir. I

appreciate it. I want to ask now about -- in this case it's

going to touch on some issues relating to certain aviation

companies, but in particular GE Aviation.

So I want to start and kind of ask if anybody here

is a current employee of GE Aviation?

(Some Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: So I see one in the box. Sir, could

you stand up? And tell us your Juror Number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 9.

MR. MANGAN: Number 9?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: (Prospective Juror nods head

affirmatively.)

MR. MANGAN: And are you a current GE employee?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: How long have you worked there?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Since February of '19.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And do you work for -- I know

GE has -- it's a large company with different divisions. Do

you work in the aviation division?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

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MR. MANGAN: All right. And can you tell generally

sort of what field you work in?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Electrical maintenance.

MR. MANGAN: Electrical maintenance?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Are you involved at all in

the design or engineering of the jet engines?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Are you involved in the manufacturing

of the jet engines?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, not directly.

MR. MANGAN: All right. You say it was in

electrical maintenance?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And does that relate to the

facilities?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Partly. I'm in a division that

works on the component testing, so sometimes engineers will

come to us, ask them to construct cables --

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: -- you know, cable ends and

then they take those pieces back and use them for testing.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Earlier the judge asked about

any knowledge of this particular case. Do you have any

knowledge of this case?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, nothing outside of the

questionnaire.

MR. MANGAN: All right. When they listed the

names of the witnesses, did you recognize any of those

witnesses?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And you have not heard this

discussed with any of your co-workers at GE Aviation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. If there's a witness from

GE Aviation, would you give that witness's testimony any

more or less weight just because you're employed at the same

company?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Given all that, do you

still feel you could be a fair and impartial Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you. I appreciate

it. I believe there was another hand?

(Some Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir. Could you start with your

number, please?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 36.

MR. MANGAN: Juror 36?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.

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MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you. One moment.

COURT REPORTER JULIE HOHENSTEIN: Sir, could you

come to the microphone, please?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

COURT REPORTER JULIE HOHENSTEIN: Thank you.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Is this good?

MR. MANGAN: Yes. Thank you. And, sir, do you

work at GE Aviation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do currently work at GE

Aviation.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And how long have you worked

there?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Since 2001.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And generally what area of

the business do you work in?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Currently I work in our

Aviation Services Division.

MR. MANGAN: All right. What is that?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: We maintain and provide service

agreements for aircraft engines --

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: -- that we manufacture.

MR. MANGAN: All right. So this is servicing once

they've been sold?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Indeed.

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MR. MANGAN: Okay. Are you at all involved in the

design phase?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not my current capacity. In

prior roles, before 2010, I was involved with our research

and development and test operations.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Let me ask you: Did you

have any experience working at all with something called

composite fan blades?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have not worked directly with

our composite fan blades or any associated processes for

manufacturing/assembly of those.

MR. MANGAN: Previously the Court asked if anybody

had any knowledge of this case. Were you aware of this case

at all?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was not.

MR. MANGAN: All right. He listed a number of

witnesses that may be testifying in the case. Did you

recognize any of those names from work?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: None of those names were

familiar, no.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. If there is a witness from GE

that would testify, would you be able to evaluate that

witness's credibility without giving them any more or less

weight just based on their employment?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not on the basis of just the

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fact that they're employed with GE Aviation.

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: There's a possibly I could have

some prior relationship not knowing that witness, but not on

the basis of them being just an aviation -- GE Aviation

employee alone.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Given that we are going to have

at least a couple GE Aviation employees testify, do you

believe you can be a fair and impartial Juror in this case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do believe so.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: Sir, while you're there, given your

expertise, can you tell me if that microphone is working?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: From here it sounds like it is,

but I --

THE COURT: Could you tap on it for me?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: (Witness complies.)

THE COURT: Thank you, sir. It's working. Have a

seat.

MR. MANGAN: Were there any other GE Aviation

employees? Make sure I didn't miss any hands.

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Number, please?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 13. Sorry. I worked at

Evendale plant from '86 to '91.

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MR. MANGAN: All right. And is -- and I'm sorry.

You're Juror Number 13?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 13.

MR. MANGAN: And, sir, the last time you worked

there was 1991?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Have you worked there at all

since?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Do you have any other

association at all with the company?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Were you aware of the case, what the

Court described?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Were you aware of any of the GE

witnesses that were on the list?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

(Large static sound in courtroom.)

THE COURT: What did you do?

MR. MANGAN: I thought it was you. I don't know.

Sir, given your past experience with GE Aviation, which was

30 years ago, I guess?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Long time ago.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Do you believe you can still be

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a fair and impartial witness?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: Or excuse me. A fair and impartial

Juror in this case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you, sir.

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 23. I used to

work for GE. I used to be a contractor for them.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. So Number 23; correct?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: When you -- when you did work there,

were you an employee or a contractor?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I was an intern for college,

and I was working for GE. Then I was a contractor for SA

Research, which does contract work on a design phase for

them.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. What -- when was it that you

were an intern?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I want to say maybe 2014 or

'13.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And then what was the time

period when you worked for a contractor?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'd say 2018 maybe 2017 as

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well.

MR. MANGAN: And during the time you were working

with one of the GE contractors, were you ever on-site or did

you work full-time on-site?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I worked at a GE facility.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Was it --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: On military contracts.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Which facility?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Building 200.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Is that in Evendale?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Do you no longer work for

that GE contractor?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And while you were working

for the contractor, you were -- you were their employee;

correct?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: And they simply had a business

relationship with GE?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, correct.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Is there anything about

your work experience with the contractor or as an intern

that you believe would impact your ability to serve as a

Juror in this case?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Did you know any of the

witnesses that were read off earlier?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not, no.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And did you know about

this case at all?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Based on -- based on all

that, would you, would you still be able to serve as a fair

and impartial Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, sir.

MR. MANGAN: And if there was an GE employee who

testified, would you give them any more or less weight as,

as a witness --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: -- just because they work for GE?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Is

there anyone else who has worked at GE or in a similar

fashion or, you know, been a contractor on-site? Okay.

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: You've got a hand in the box.

MR. MANGAN: Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I waffled there for a minute.

Juror Number 16.

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MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I just wanted to point out that

I've worked on marketing campaigns for GE engines and

aviation for their military contracts for Apache and Black

Hawk helicopters.

MR. MANGAN: Can you -- what kind of campaign was

that?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It was a T-901 marketing --

THE COURT: I need you to speak up. Did you say

marketing campaign?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, the T-901.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. So do you work for a different

company --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: -- that does marketing for GE?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: I see. And when did you work on that

marketing campaign?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Within the last two years.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And are you an employee at

GE?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. You work for an outside

firm that GE hired?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Correct.

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MR. MANGAN: Okay. Is that work ongoing?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: So that part of the campaign is over?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yep.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Is there any part of your work

now that touches on GE?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Did you recognize any of the witnesses

that we described earlier?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Do you -- did you have any prior

knowledge of this case before today?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Is there anything about

having worked on that campaign with GE Aviation that you

feel would impact your ability to be a fair and impartial

Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: If we had a GE Aviation witness, would

you be able to listen to their testimony without giving them

any more or less weight just because they worked for that

company?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. You believe you would be

able -- I probably asked that.

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, I picked it up. You --

yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. You wouldn't give them any

more or less weight?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Is there anything else about

the work that you perform that you think we should know?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I've been to all the

facilities and toured them.

THE COURT: I need you to speak up.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I've been to the different

facilities and toured them.

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: And seen those programs.

MR. MANGAN: All right. But that work was -- has

been concluded?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yep.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. I

know there's sometimes individuals who have relatives who

have worked at GE Aviation.

Are there any individuals here who have relatives

-- and let's keep it to, sort of the immediate family --

that work for GE Aviation?

(Some Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir? We'll start with you and

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work our way --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 23. My father

works for GE.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Does he still work for GE?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He does.

MR. MANGAN: And does he work at GE Aviation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, he does.

MR. MANGAN: All right. How long has he worked

there?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I'd say six years.

MR. MANGAN: All right. He worked somewhere else

before then?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: All right. And generally what field

does he work in there?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: He's a machinist in the

aviation field. He's a machinist.

MR. MANGAN: A machinist. Thank you.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.

MR. MANGAN: Is he at all involved in the actual

engine design?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not the design phase, no.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And going back to the other

questions that I asked previously, does the fact that your

father works at GE Aviation, do you believe that would

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impact your ability to be a fair and impartial Juror in this

case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. All right. Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: I'm sorry. What was your number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 23.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir.

MR. MANGAN: I believe there was another hand.

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 25.

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Both my parents work at GE. My

father worked in submarine logistics for them. My mom

worked at GE Aviation in the design.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Do they -- do either of

them still work there?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: All right. When's the last time they

worked at GE Aviation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I believe my mom retired in

2015. My dad was considerably earlier than that.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. I take it you did not work at

GE Aviation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

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MR. MANGAN: All right. And you don't have any

inside knowledge about the company's workings or how they

design engines?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have little bits and pieces

but --

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: -- nothing major.

THE COURT: I'm having trouble hearing. You need

to come to the microphone, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I have -- no, I do not have

any information about how it works or anything.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Did you recognize any of the

witnesses on the witness list?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: And did you have any knowledge of this

case prior to coming here?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. If there's a GE employee

witness, would you give that witness any more or less

weight --

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I don't -- no. Just as a

witness that would testify, I believe.

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: But being an employee of GE,

no.

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COURT REPORTER JULIE HOHENSTEIN: I'm sorry. I

need you to speak up and repeat that.

THE COURT: We're not hearing you.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No. I don't believe I'd give

them any more weight or less weight.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you. And do you

still believe you could serve as a fair and impartial Juror

on this case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, I believe I can.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you.

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir, would you come up to the

microphone? And state your Juror Number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Number 27.

MR. MANGAN: Go ahead, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My father worked at GE Aviation

for 35 years, but he retired, I think, nine years ago, eight

years ago.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. In what field did he work?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Customer support.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. And is there anything about him

working at GE Aviation that you believe would impact your

ability to be a fair and impartial Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Did you recognize any of

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the witness names?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, sir.

MR. MANGAN: And did you know anything about this

case beforehand?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No, I didn't.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you. I appreciate

it. Anyone else?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Yes, sir? Could you state your number

at the microphone?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes, Juror 17, and, first of

all --

THE COURT: I'm sorry, sir. Can you step up to the

microphone and speak up?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: You're probably just asking for

current employees, but my father had work for GE Aviation

way back in the '70s. He hasn't worked there since

mid-'70s.

MR. MANGAN: Okay. So your father last worked for

GE in the 70s's you said?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: Is there anything about that that you

believe would have an impact on your ability to be a fair

and impartial Juror in this case?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It would not.

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MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you. I appreciate

it.

THE COURT: What was the number?

MR. MANGAN: 17.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 17, yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you. Number 16?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, Juror Number 16. My

mother and father both worked at GE. My father retired.

Been there his whole career as an accountant, and mother was

in administration. That had to have been at least 30 years

ago.

THE COURT: Are you messing with me? Would you

please speak up, please?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sure.

THE COURT: Thank you.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: What should I repeat?

Everything?

THE COURT: Yeah.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: My mother and father both

worked at GE. My father worked there for 35 years until his

retirement in accounting, and my mother was in

administration, but that had to have been 30 years ago.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. MANGAN: All right. Thank you, sir. And one

last question: Do you believe that your parents having

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worked there in the past would have any impact on your

ability to be a fair and impartial Juror?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. MANGAN: Thank you. Any other hands related to

GE?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Thank you. Now, I do want to

turn to, you know, the Court already touched on some of the

issues in terms of nationality and things of that nature.

Does everyone agree with the principle, you know,

that we should only -- if we instruct you to rely only on

the evidence in this case, that that's what you should rely

on and not on any personal feelings or opinions or biases

toward a particular race or nationality? Can everyone agree

with that principle? Is there anyone that disagrees with

that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Let's talk more broadly about

China. I know that was part of the questionnaire that

everyone filled out, and some folks had checked off

different issues that you may have concerns with regarding

what, what the country may do pertaining to various issues

or policies or form of government or whatever it may be.

So let me ask just a couple specific questions.

Are there any folks who have opinions -- positive or

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negative -- about the country of China based on human rights

issues? Feel free to raise your hand if you do.

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Thank you. For those who

rose -- or raised their hands, let me say, this case does

not pertain to human rights in China.

For those who put their hands up, can you set those

feelings aside and judge this case solely on the evidence

that is presented in the Court?

(Prospective Jurors nodded heads affirmatively.)

MR. MANGAN: Is there anyone who cannot or has

concerns that their feelings on the human rights issues

would make it difficult for them to be an impartial Juror in

this case?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: If you have any of those feelings,

it's okay. You know, we just kind of what to talk that

through now. Anyone?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: I don't see any hands up. Okay. Same

thing, there was, there was a checkmark related to the COVID

virus, the Coronavirus that a few people checked.

So I want to ask about that a little bit. Are

there any folks who have positive or negative opinions about

the country of China related to the Coronavirus?

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(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: Feel free to raise your hand if that's

how -- if you have opinions on that -- positive or negative

feelings toward that country because of the virus?

(Some Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. So I'm going to ask a

similar question. For those that raised their hands related

to that issue, okay, for those who raised their hands

related to COVID, can you set those feelings aside and judge

this case solely on the evidence presented and the

Instructions of Law from the Court?

(Prospective Jurors nodded heads affirmatively.)

MR. MANGAN: If there is anyone who cannot or who

has concerns about that, could you raise your hand now?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: It's okay. We just -- like I said, if

you feel you can't set those feelings aside, we just want to

make sure that we talk about it before we get through this

selection process.

Is there anyone who feels they cannot set those

feelings aside and continue to be a fair and impartial

Juror?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. I don't see any hands.

All right. Thank you.

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As the Court mentioned, the case involves

discussions of attempted theft or a conspiracy to steal

trade secrets, and specifically we'll be talking about

aviation and plane technology as you may have started to

kind of put together.

So I want to ask in general about intellectual

property protection or trade secrets. Does anybody work for

a company that makes them sign an agreement to protect the

company's confidential information?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. MANGAN: I see a few hands in the back. All

right. Does anyone have, have to sign agreements with their

company about trade secret protection?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Okay. I see a few hands in the back

as well. Some folks have opinions as to whether or not, you

know, intellectual property theft should or should not be a

crime.

Does anybody have any strong opinions that the

theft of trade secrets should not be a crime? Perhaps that

it should just be handled civilly?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: I don't see any hands. Okay. If you

do, feel free to raise your hand. Does anybody have any

thoughts that trade secret theft should not be a crime?

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(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Okay. Does anyone have the opinion

that technology or intellectual property should be available

openly to everyone without any kind of limitations?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: And don't worry. This doesn't involve

downloading music.

(Laughter.)

MR. MANGAN: So we're not going to get into that.

That could be a hot-button issue for some people. But

generally does anybody have that opinion?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: I don't see any hands there. Okay.

Thank you. Turning back to the, you know, the heart of this

as the Court mentioned.

As the Court mentioned, the Government of China is

not on trial here; but we will be talking about allegations

of crimes regarding, you know, trade secrets that we're,

we're alleging were taken for the benefit, for the benefit

of the Republic of China.

Is there anything about the nature of those charges

that would make it difficult for you to serve as a Juror on

this case?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Is there anyone who has any concerns

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about that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Would you be able to set aside your

feelings about other issues perhaps on China and just decide

this case for this individual based on the evidence

presented here?

(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. Now, there may be some who

have strong opinions about trade secret theft or trade

secret theft particularly related to China.

Does everyone understand that the crimes charged

here relate to a single individual, and you can only find

that individual guilty if the Government proves every

element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt?

Does everybody understand that and agree with that?

(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

MR. MANGAN: And so if we, the Government, do not

prove those crimes, every element beyond a reasonable doubt,

do you understand you would need to render a verdict of not

guilty regardless of how you may feel about generally trade

secret theft or the country of China?

(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

MR. MANGAN: I see a lot of heads nodding. Does

everybody understand that distinction? Are there any

questions or anybody have any concerns about that?

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(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Does anyone want to speak to whether

or not they feel that would be difficult for them to be a

fair and impartial Juror in that kind of situation?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. One last thing I want to

touch upon is we mentioned the crimes involved. The crime

of attempt. So an allegation that someone has attempted a

crime, which obviously by the definition of the word

attempt, it may mean that they did not fulfill the crime.

Does anyone have any concerns that an attempt by

itself should not be a crime?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: All right. And we're also going to

talk about conspiracy, and the Court will instruct you on

the law as to what a conspiracy is, but essentially we're

talking about an agreement to commit a crime. An

agreement between people that may be informal. It may be

unspoken.

Does anybody have any opinions that that kind of

agreement should not be a crime by itself?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Does anybody have any feelings that

conspiracy strikes them the wrong way as far as a crime is

concerned?

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(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Go ahead and raise your hand if you

have any concerns about that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Either attempt or conspiracy, raise

your hand if you have any concerns about that being

prosecuted as a crime?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. MANGAN: Okay. If I can have one moment, Your

Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Mr. Mangan, confers with co-counsel.)

THE COURT: Ms. Frankian, can you approach?

MR. MANGAN: That's all we have, Your Honor. Thank

you.

THE COURT: Thank you. If you'll give me just a

moment.

(The Court confers with Ms. Frankian.)

THE COURT: Almost 10 to 12. How long does the

Defense estimate that voir dire from the Defense will take,

which is the next step?

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, I believe that I could

certainly get it done within an hour. Perhaps within

45 minutes depending on the answers, and thank you for

calling on me, because I got to stand. I was wondering if

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maybe the Jurors might like to stand for a minute, and then

I could proceed.

THE COURT: I'm trying to decide whether to take a

break so they can stand and move around or whether they want

to plow ahead.

Jurors, you've been at the courthouse for a while.

You've been in this courtroom sitting down. We can go

through some stretching, maybe work in a little physical

therapy on our hands while we're in the break, or we can

take a 15-minute break and get you up and around, you can

move around.

How many people would like to take a 15-minute

break of the Jurors? Hands way up.

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

THE COURT: How many would love to plow ahead

without a break?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: The breakers win the vote, and we are

going to take a break momentarily. I need to talk to you

about breaks.

On the break, do not discuss what went on in the

courtroom with any fellow Juror or anyone else. Do not do

any independent research. I'll tell you that every time.

Don't discuss the case.

If anybody approaches you and tries to discuss it,

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let me know. No independent research about any of this.

Can't read or listen to or watch any news reports, if there

are any.

You can't check or use Google, Facebook, Twitter or

any of that stuff to find information about any aspect of

the case.

And, of course, you need to continue to keep an

open mind. You can't form or express an opinion on the case

until it's finally submitted to you.

So it's really important. Don't discuss it with

anyone. Enjoy this 15-minute break. Are we going to send

them to the ninth floor?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: We can't send them to the ninth

floor or just in the hall.

THE COURT: We can't send them to the ninth floor.

Do you have another suggestion?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: We can keep them in the hall and

lined up to come back in when they're ready.

THE COURT: Is the Government standing for a

reason?

MS. GLATFELTER: We thought --

THE COURT: That's my signal I need to check out

where you are. Okay. We're going to take a break. You can

go anywhere you want in the courthouse. You can probably

step outside, but I need you in the hall by this doorway at

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12:10, and I have 11:50, so it's a 20-minute break.

Use the break to get the muscles going. The blood

going. Don't discuss it with anybody. No independent

research.

Out of respect for you, we'll rise for you as you

leave through that door with the assistance of Ms. Santoro.

If you'd rise as they leave. If somebody at the door would

lead them out.

(Prospective Jurors exited the courtroom.)

THE COURT: Jurors have left the room. Is there

anything that requires my attention before we recess until

12:10? I see nothing. Any lawyer not here at 12:10 will

get on the short list. Enjoy your break. We're in recess.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: This court is in recess until

12:10.

(Court was in recess at 11:52 a.m. and resumed at 12:11

p.m.)

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. This court is back in

session pursuant to the recess.

THE COURT: You can be seated. I was hoping to

catch a lawyer not here. We're back on the record. We're

going to check to be sure that the 40 Jurors are standing

outside the door and then bring them in and Mr. Kohnen will

proceed.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise for the Jury.

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(Prospective Jurors entered the courtroom.)

THE COURT: Jurors can be seated as you join us.

Jurors have returned. You may all be seated. Members of

the Jury, thank you for being back and back on time.

Somebody's counted? We have all 40 -- or should I have them

count off?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: We have all 40.

THE COURT: Very well. Are there any of the 40 who

are not here, would you speak up, please?

(Laughter.)

(No Prospective Juror responded.)

THE COURT: No response. Mr. Kohnen, if you wish

to proceed to inquire, you may do so at this time?

MR. KOHNEN: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. KOHNEN: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for

your service. I want to echo what the Court said, what Mr.

Mangan said, the job you're going to do here if you're

selected and the help you've given us in selecting the ones

who are honored is an extremely important duty really as a

citizen.

On behalf of my client, Mr. Xu, and my colleagues,

again thank you. Thank you also for filling out the Jury

questionnaires. They were very informative and helpful to

us.

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Can everybody hear me back in the back? I want to

make sure.

(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: I also want to apologize a little bit.

When you go last, most of your questions are asked. When

you have to ask them again or get into a little more detail,

they seem redundant; and for that, I apologize, but I'm sure

you understand that it's very important that we find out as

much about you on these matters as we can; fair enough?

(Prospective Jurors nod heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Thanks. There were, as everybody's

mentioned, a lot of questions in your questionnaires about

China. China, as you know, is a place that's an entirely

different culture. That's literately halfway around the

world.

Since you completed those questionnaires, even up

to right now, is there anything you can think of, any

answers that you could think of that should be changed or

should be supplemented, aside from what's already been asked

and answered?

(Prospective Jurors shake heads negatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there anything else you would

change in the responses you gave to the Court and Mr. Mangan

in that short recess?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

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MR. KOHNEN: Bottom line, is there anything right

now having, you know, heard all those questions that you

want to let us know about, that you want to weigh in from

your perspective?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: You were asked about whether you had

any knowledge of the case. I think Judge Black asked about

media, about the Internet, et cetera.

I just want to make sure, aside from what you've

heard here in the courtroom this morning, does anyone on

this panel have any knowledge about this case?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I see no hands, Your Honor. One of

the things we noticed from your questionnaires is that a

number of you have got friends or family who are from

China.

What, what do you think they would think? What do

you think knowing them? Do you think that Mr. Xu can get a

fair trial here?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Do you think prejudice might be a

problem?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Would it surprise any of you to know

that the first time Mr. Xu set foot in the United States was

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when the F.B.I. brought him here in 2018?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Does that give anybody pause?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is anybody wondering how that

happened?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Mr. Xu had never before set foot in

the United States of America.

Is anybody an aviation buff?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Anybody a pilot?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir. Your number please and use

the microphone?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 19. I'm a airplane pilot

for United Airlines.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. What kind of jets do you fly?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 737.

MR. KOHNEN: What kind of engine does the 737 have

on it?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It's a CMF 731.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. And that's a General Electric

engine.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: It's a collaboration CFM.

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MR. KOHNEN: Who, who -- is that a product of a

joint venture?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. KOHNEN: And what's the company?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Not my area of expertise.

MR. KOHNEN: I'm fine as long as you know how it

flies and you can fly it, I'm good with that.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's true.

MR. KOHNEN: Thanks. Is there anybody else who's a

pilot or is an aircraft buff?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Good. You know, a lot -- Mr.

Mangan asked a lot of questions about GE Aviation and your

connections to GE Aviation.

I'll probably follow-up on some of that toward the

end of my presentation here this morning; but as I was

hearing the questions, it occurs to me that a lot of people

recognize GE as kind of a good cooperate citizen.

Is there anybody -- aside from any employment

affiliation or professional affiliation -- that has a

special fondness for GE that might color your judgment in

this case even in a small way?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I personally don't know much about GE

Aviation. I've learned a lot, I promise you; but, you know,

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big companies sponsor events. They sponsor sports teams,

little league, what have you.

Does anybody have a connection with GE in any way

like that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: One of the questions that's almost

always asked by the time I get here is, we noticed that a

number of the panelist are lawyers.

If you're a lawyer licensed to practice law or

was -- studied law, would you raise your hand, please?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. And your number, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Number 4.

MR. KOHNEN: Number 4, thank you. And you, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 24.

MR. KOHNEN: 44?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 24.

MR. KOHNEN: Sorry. There's only 40 Jurors. 24.

Thank you. You guys have had legal training, and we need to

know, can you put that legal training and your experience

aside and do what the judge has already told you you're

going to have to do, and he will tell you again, only act as

fact finders in this case? Can you both assure us that

you'll do that?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. KOHNEN: Thank you, gentlemen. A couple of

potential Jurors also indicated that they have a spouse or a

significant other who's an attorney. First of all, you have

my condolences.

But among those, and I'm not asking anybody to

raise their hand unless they think that that's going to make

them a biased or unfair Juror or somebody who wants to get

involved in the law when they should not.

Is there anybody here like that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: We covered law enforcement and

connections to law enforcement, but I want to follow-up and

ask: Has anybody had a job where they had to conduct some

investigations?

Maybe you worked in the HR department or maybe you

worked, like, the gentleman that works for the Government

agency and investigated certain things.

Has anybody done investigations as part of their

job?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Number 4. As a division

manager or as an engineer, typically related to personnel

issues.

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MR. KOHNEN: Right. And tell us a little bit more

about that? I mean, did you have to investigate the

employee's conduct, first of all?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes. It's depending on the

circumstance. Mostly auto accidents. Going out, checking

with the individual, and the citizens that were involved,

and then determining the facts as best as I could come up

with them, and then issue a report.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. And did you have ever -- ever

have to do, for example, a forensic review of a

company-owned computers or things of that nature or

supervise that?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. KOHNEN: And what about -- this probably is a

no, but what about personal computers?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: No.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. So, you know, with your

experience I'll say, there are occasions when people come on

to company property with their personal devices; right? And

there's maybe some question as to whether or not their

employer has any authority to look at those or seize those,

would you agree?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: There may be question, yes.

MR. KOHNEN: Yeah. And by the way, did your job or

does anybody have a job that has ever required them to

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contact law enforcement?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir. Juror Number?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: 21.

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I run a, a beetle eradication

program. We often need law enforcement support when

property owners don't cooperate with the, with the program

or our regulations.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody

else? Mr. Mangan mentioned it, so I'll asked. I don't want

to go too far. But is there -- he talked about cooperating

witnesses.

Is there anybody here who's had the unfortunate

experience of being a cooperating witness with law

enforcement?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I didn't think so, but I thought I'd

ask. Has anybody ever worked for a company that analyzes or

conducts what's known as business intelligence?

(Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 28. I work for a company

that does data analytics and data science.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Can you tell us a little bit

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more about what -- how that company works and what you do

there, please?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah, we, we analyze purchase

behavior, and then we issue -- or we create sciences that

optimize pricing and coupons and marketing campaigns and

such.

MR. KOHNEN: Let me guess, 84.51, formerly known as

Dunnhumby?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's right.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Thank you, sir. That's very

helpful. There's one other person? Yes, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror 36. I had raised my

hand. Within the context of GE Aviation, understanding

competitors in the marketplace.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Do you do that work, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not do that work, no.

MR. KOHNEN: But your company does?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yes.

MR. KOHNEN: And do you work with the people who do

that analysis and that investigation?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I do not.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Thank you very much. You know,

the gentleman who works with 48.51 -- oh, I'm sorry. Yes,

sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Juror Number 38.

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MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir.

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I work for a company that does

software development but sometimes involves customer, like,

that company's data to do sort of warehousing slash clean up

and supplies that for those companies.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. What do you do as part of that

mission?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: I am a front-end developer so I

handle a lot of the work in field, and I also try to reduce

education and improve air handling.

MR. KOHNEN: So just so you're clear, and I'm going

to ask you to get a little closer to the microphone. Your

company, like, like 84.51, gathers data intelligence, and

uses it; is that right?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: In this case, some of our

clients will have their data, but they don't know how to use

it. They're just supplying it to us, and then we are

analyzing their data and providing it back to them.

We're not, we're not independently pulling data

from outside sources. It's these company's data provided --

MR. KOHNEN: Very good. So you are on the analysis

side; fair enough?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Give or take, yeah.

MR. KOHNEN: And you have others who gather it for

you; is that right?

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PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Yeah.

MR. KOHNEN: And how does that work, do you know?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: Sort of. A little bit. I know

that sort -- certain clients might have an FTP server that

they will drop files onto, and they will have a process that

will pick up these files and normally put them in -- do some

validation or cleaning, and then we'll store it in certain

tables that will then be utilized for stat reports for these

clients.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody

else who is involved with a company that does business

intelligence as we've just kind of heard it described?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: You know, just to, just to be clear, I

mean, companies, they, they often check out their

competitors. They see what they charge. They see what

products they're selling. They see how those products are

manufactured. That's all the kind of business intelligence

I'm talking about. Does everybody understand what I mean?

Is there anybody who doesn't?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I think that 84.51, which is a, kind

of hybrid, I suppose, of that, is a company that really does

the work for Kroger; is that right, sir?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's right.

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MR. KOHNEN: Okay. And they, they gather

information that people don't even know it's being gathered

about them, do they?

PROSPECTIVE JUROR: That's not exactly right.

There's all sorts of checks and balances in place to know

that as you're purchasing items, that that data's being

gathered.

MR. KOHNEN: Right. Okay. Very good. The -- I

just want to cover this very quickly. Does anybody feel

that the Department of Justice lawyers, such as these three

(Indicating), never make a mistake?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Does anybody believe that they only

bring prosecutions of cases that they can prove guilt on?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I'm going to continue to note no

responses, Your Honor.

Is there anybody here who would automatically give

more weight to a witness because they came from the F.B.I.

or another law enforcement agency?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I take it by the fact that there are

no responses, that you all are willing to treat the

testimony of a law enforcement officer the same as any other

testimony; is that right?

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106

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: I've never once not had a hand raised

to that question, but I'm grateful that I don't see any.

Has anyone heard of the United States Department of

Justice and the F.B.I.'s China Initiative?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Have you read about it or heard about

it at all?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: The China Initiative is a very

broad --

THE COURT: Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.

Questions for the witness.

MR. KOHNEN: I want to make sure, Your Honor, if I

might?

THE COURT: I don't want you testifying.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Just to make sure that you

don't know what I'm talking about when I mention The China

Initiative. It's a very broad investigation of China and

Chinese National Guards --

THE COURT: Excuse me.

MR. KOHNEN: -- in the U.S. --

THE COURT: Excuse me. I told you I didn't want

you to do that.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay.

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107

THE COURT: You asked them if they were aware of

it, and they said no.

MR. KOHNEN: Does, does anybody have strong

opinions about foreign corporations doing business in the

United States?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Do you think it's good? Do you think

it's bad? Any, any opinions about that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Does anybody have strong opinions

about American corporations doing business in China?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I see no hands. Does everyone agree

that individuals and businesses who do business in foreign

countries must obey the laws and customs of those foreign

countries? Does anybody have a problem with that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: So if a Chinese company comes to the

United States, they have to obey our laws?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: And if we or -- as a company or

employees go to China, we have to obey their laws? Is

everyone clear on that?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Now one thing about China is they have

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laws, but they also have customs; and the distinction

between customs and laws, based on what I've learned, can

get a little blurred; okay? Customs typically -- which go

back centuries -- trump laws in a sense.

So it's really important that people who go to

China understand and obey their customs as well. Is

everybody on board with that?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Let's talk for just a minute about

what I'm going to call optics. You all have noticed that

there are a lot of attorneys here who are representing Mr.

Xu.

You noticed that there are three attorneys and an

agent here on behalf of the Government. Bearing in mind

that lots of other attorneys and agents almost certainly

worked on this case, do you think that this is a fair fight,

will you agree?

It's not -- we're not out numbering them? Not out

manning them. Does that give anybody any cause for concern?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Everybody agrees that while at first

it might kind of look unfair, we've got a level playing

field here; correct?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: All right. Judge Black and Mr. Mangan

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have addressed a very important issue, and I want to cover

it from a slightly different, a slightly different angle.

Has anybody here had what's called biased training?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, sir. Good. Okay. Anybody else?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Okay. I'm going to tell you

what bias training is just to make sure we're on the same

page here.

I'm going --

THE COURT: I'm going to interrupt, and you'll

forgive me. When the lawyers talk, it's not evidence. You

haven't heard a word about evidence.

I interrupted him once because he was going to tell

you something you didn't know about. If you're going to be

told stuff, you're going to be told stuff by the witness.

But you can go ahead, go ahead and do the best you can not

to --

MR. KOHNEN: I will, Your Honor. Ladies and

gentlemen, what I want to do is I want to ask you if you

understand that all of us have something that's known as

implicit bias? Has anyone heard this before?

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. KOHNEN: I thought so. May I continue?

THE COURT: Yes.

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MR. KOHNEN: Implicit bias is something that we all

have in us that is prejudice to someone because of their

gender or their race or their sexual orientation. We can't

help it. Lots of times we don't even recognize it.

I want to make sure that each and every one of you,

if selected to be a Juror, is going to make sure that

whatever bias exists is pushed away from your job as fact

finders in this case.

Can I have that assurance from each and every one

of you, please? Raise your hands.

(Prospective Jurors raised their hands.)

MR. KOHNEN: Thank you. Everybody understands,

don't they, that countries have intelligence services;

right?

For example, the United States has the C.I.A., and

the N.S.A., and lots of other intelligence agencies; and

Great Britain, they have the MI6 and the MI5. In Russia

they have the Federal Security Service and the Foreign

Intelligence Service, which by the way used to be the KGB,

and China has intelligence services too; right? That makes

sense. Does anybody disagree with that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Does anyone think it's wrong

for a country to have an intelligence service?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

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MR. KOHNEN: It's important to a country's defense,

isn't it?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Does anyone think that somebody who

works for an intelligence agency -- whether for our country

or for another country -- has to be a spy?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Again, I see no hands. This is a

rhetorical question: But what do you think the purpose of

an intelligence agency like the C.I.A. is?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: It's to gather intelligence; right?

Would it surprise you to know -- and this is a question that

I want answered -- would it surprise you to know that the

vast majority of information that these intelligence

services gather is public information?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Nobody's surprised by that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Sometimes you'll hear during the trial

the expression, open-source, and that's what I'm talking

about. Stuff that is not -- doesn't qualify in this case,

for example, as trade secrets.

Does everybody agree that that should be fair game?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

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MR. KOHNEN: I'm assuming that I see no hands, that

everybody agrees? And if I'm wrong about that, please raise

your hand?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: So let's see. Intelligence services

just don't -- they don't just deal in secret information.

There's lots of public information that could be useful to

them for whatever their purposes are. We all agree on that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: And human beings also can be sources

of information for intelligence services as well, don't you

agree?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I'm not talking about cloak and dagger

meetings and drop locations and all this stuff you see in

the movies, but what I'm looking about is friending somebody

on Facebook, finding somebody on LinkedIn, communicating

with somebody on -- I forget -- Instagram, just asking a

person to make an introduction.

Those things all can lead to human interaction and

information being shared with people in an intelligence

service. Does everybody agree with that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Now, in this case you're going to hear

that a lot of information was gathered, and it's going to be

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113

up to you to decide whether or not that was a trade secret.

I'll get to this in a minute, but Judge Black would

define what a trade secret is. Does everybody understand

that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Sometimes trade secret will be used as

a synonym with other words; and I want to be clear that the

trade secret per the law has a very distinct definition. Is

everybody okay with that concept?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: I'll have more for you on that in a

minute.

One of the most important aspects of a trade secret

is that it can't be found through public means or acquired

otherwise; okay?

And Judge Black will define trade secrets. I think

he will include that in his definition, but the important

thing I want to make sure that everybody agrees with is when

it comes to defining the trade secret and deciding whether

something was or was not a trade secret, that's a question

of fact, and that's for you to decide. Is everybody clear

on that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Another important question in this

case is going to be my client, Mr. Xu's intent, what he

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intended or didn't intend to do. That is up to you and only

you as well. Is everybody comfortable with that?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: You've heard a lot already about the

presumption of innocence. I'm not going to spend a lot of

time on that, but does everybody understand that that is a

pre-sumption? It is presumed, and not an as-sumption, which

is assumed? I think there's a difference. Does everybody

agree?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: That's an important concept because,

again, with, you know, the possibility of bias and

circumstances, the trade wars in China, the responses to

your questionnaires about China, it would be pretty easy to

come in here and assume the worst about my client.

Can everybody put that out of your mind and decide

this case objectively based only on what you hear in this

courtroom?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Mention was made, I believe, and it

certainly will be again, of a thing called an indictment,

okay? For purposes -- going forward, an indictment is

simply a piece of paper that sets forth for Mr. Xu, for us,

his attorneys, and for the Court, the claims that the

Government has made against him.

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There's nothing else about the indictment that you

may consider, and you may not -- I stress -- not consider it

as evidence --

THE COURT: Mr. Kohnen, I'm going to interrupt.

I'd like you to ask questions of the Jurors.

MR. KOHNEN: The judge touches on but didn't spend

a lot of time on reasonable doubt. Is everybody comfortable

with that concept?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Does everybody understand if you

probably think this man's guilty, that you must vote to

acquit? Not convict?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Would anybody here have difficulty

following those principles?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Likewise, for this concept of beyond a

reasonable doubt, the judge did a good job there. I can add

more, but is anybody uncomfortable with that standard?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Now, the evidence in this case is

going to start when the prosecution presents its first

witness. That witness will testify on what's known as

direct examination. In other words, the witness will be

questioned by one of the Government's lawyers, and they'll

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give answers.

And then the witness will be cross-examined by me

or one of my colleagues, and the witness will give answers

to those questions.

Does everybody agree that the answers to both sets

of questions get equal weight?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Everybody agrees that the answers that

come out on cross-examination are potentially just as

important as the questions that came out on direct

examination? Makes sense; right?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: This is going to be a long trial.

Judge Black has made that clear. Hopefully it's not going

to be as long as we've provided for, but better that we do

that than make a promise we can't keep to you.

And you're going to hear a lot of evidence, but

does everybody realize that the amount of evidence is not a

substitute for the quality of the evidence?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there anybody that needs me to

explain that principle -- try to explain that principle

further? Are you all there?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Good. And another really important

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principle is Mr. Xu's right not to testify, and his right

not to present any evidence at all.

Does anyone think that if he doesn't testify, he's

probably guilty?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Does anybody think that if he doesn't

testify, it's more likely that he's guilty?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I ask these questions because a number

of you indicated on your Jury questionnaires that you'd like

to hear the Defendant's side of the story. You've indicated

in instances that you'd like to hear him testify.

Does everybody understand that whatever notion you

had -- and I'm not going to single anybody out -- but does

everybody understand that whatever notion you might have had

about that, you can't happen any longer?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there anyone that has a problem

with that?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there anybody here that would have

a problem voting not guilty if the Government got close to

proving the case by beyond a reasonable doubt but failed?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there anybody that would have a

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problem voting not guilty if the Government covered most of

the elements of the offense? That is, the things that they

must prove in order to convict. Would you still want to

vote guilty?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: I see no hands. Thank you, folks.

May I have just a moment, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with co-counsel.)

MR. KOHNEN: Sorry for the delay, ladies and

gentlemen. A couple of personal questions -- not too

personal. How do you think you might react as a Juror if

it's difficult to come to a unanimous verdict? Are you

stubborn, inflexible, or strong-willed? If you are, raise

your hand. I probably won't follow-up.

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Are you described maybe as a follower

or a pushover? Likewise, I won't follow-up, but I would

like to see a hand?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Are you a person who finds it

difficult to hold on to your opinion, to stick to your

opinion if you're out numbered?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Can each of you resist the temptation

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-- and it might be pretty severe -- resist the temptation to

decide for yourself what the law should be, to expand

perhaps the definition of trade secret that Judge Black

gives you?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is everybody going to stay within the

four corners of that definition, and can you promise us

that?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

MR. KOHNEN: Again, I see no hands. Thank you,

ladies and gentlemen.

We've been at this for quite, quite a while, and

I'm not going to belabor it much longer. Sorry to do even

this, but is there anybody who sat through all of this now

and is thinking down in their heart of hearts, you know

what, this fellow, this fellow might be guilty?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: If you were a Defendant, would you

want yourself as a Juror deciding your fate?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there anybody who has a religious

or philosophical or deeply personal reason why they just are

reluctant to judge people and their conduct?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Is there any reason any one of you

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believes that you can't give Mr. Xu a fair trial?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

MR. KOHNEN: Again, no hands. Very well. Ladies

and gentlemen, if you could promise to decide the facts

based only on the evidence presented in this courtroom and

apply the law as Judge Black instructs you, that's all we

can ask. So, again, I want to thank you very much for your

service.

Your Honor, that concludes my questions and

remarks.

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Kohnen. Members of the

Jury, I think I indicated to you when we started that once

we reached this stage, I was going to have to excuse all of

you, talk to the lawyers, and select a Jury. It's going to

take some time.

I'm going to ask that you be back up in the ninth

floor Jury Room -- you know what I'm talking about?

(Prospective Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

THE COURT: -- by 2 o'clock. That's an hour. And

I hope we're ready to get you then. I'll work hard at it,

but it's going to take that significant period of time. You

might as well know it now rather than sit up there and keep

waiting.

So during the break, do not discuss these

proceedings in any way with anyone, including your fellow

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Jurors.

If anyone approaches you, tries to discuss it, let

me know. Must not conduct any independent search about the

trial or read, listen to, or watch any news reports, if any,

of the trial.

You may not chat or use Google, Facebook, Twitter,

et cetera, to find information about any aspect of the case.

Finally, remember that it's especially important

that you keep an open mind. Don't form or express an

opinion until it's been finally submitted to you.

So take your break. Welcome to go outside the

courtroom. I'm going to need you in the ninth floor room by

2 o'clock in the hopes that we can get you at that time.

Out of respect for you, we'll rise as you leave for

an hour.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise for the Jury.

(Prospective Jurors exited the Courtroom.)

THE COURT: Jury's left the room. The door is

closing. Anything that requires the Court's attention

before we recess for an hour from the Government -- oh,

we're not recessing yet, are we? We're going to do Cause,

so you may be seated.

Ms. Frankian, if you could have Mr. Hall assist you

and bring a chair up next to me and join me? Thank you.

All right. We will address Challenges for Cause.

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I propose to go to the Government and ask you for your

Challenges for Cause, and then go to the Defense and ask you

for your Challenges for Cause.

MR. MANGAN: Can we just have one moment, Your

Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Counsel for both sides confer with co-counsel.)

MR. MANGAN: We're ready when you are, Your Honor.

We're ready when you are, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. Give me just a moment. I'm

ready. Thank you. What I would propose is that we run

through the Government's objections for Cause, and then run

through the Defendant's objections for Cause.

Is there any objection to that from the Government?

MR. MANGAN: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: From the Defense?

MR. KOHNEN: No, thank you, Judge.

THE COURT: Very well. Mr. Mangan, you can

proceed.

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, we have four that we would

suggest for Cause.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. MANGAN: Starting with Number 7. He's the

individual who indicated the hand surgery and the issue with

the physical therapy.

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THE COURT: Okay. Let me pause there. Does the

Government want to be heard on that Cause?

MR. MANGAN: Do you mean the Defense?

THE COURT: Yes. Sorry. Challenging for Cause

because of his hand surgery, need for physical therapy; is

that right, Mr. Mangan?

MR. MANGAN: Correct.

MR. KOHNEN: Judge, I believe that that Prospective

Juror said that he was going to try to work his schedule of

his physical therapy so he could attend the trial. He

seemed pretty earnest about that. Otherwise, we don't see

any other reason to excuse this Potential Juror.

THE COURT: The Court declines to excuse for

Cause.

MR. MANGAN: The next one, Your Honor, is Number

10. That was the individual who indicated he has a new job

starting on Monday as well as an obligation to do some drug

testing in between.

THE COURT: Defense wish to be heard?

MR. KOHNEN: We concur.

THE COURT: Ten is excused for Cause.

MR. MANGAN: The next one we would suggest, Your

Honor, is Number 15. This is the Juror who indicated that

he and his wife were in a car accident, and that his wife is

injured, and they have obligations regarding babysitting for

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a grandchild.

THE COURT: Defense wish to be heard?

MR. KOHNEN: May I just a moment, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with co-counsel.)

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, I don't think that that's

an appropriate reason to strike this Juror for Cause.

THE COURT: Let me get focused again. Who are we

chatting about, Juror Number?

MR. KOHNEN: Juror Number 15.

THE COURT: All right. Yeah, I've got it. Go

ahead. And speak up, please.

MR. KOHNEN: I think that he's in exactly the same

spot as the last Juror, not exactly but pretty close. He's

got some conflicts that are potential conflicts. He's got

some problems that may come down the road.

He's the one whose wife -- he and his wife were in

an automobile accident, but I don't think that he rises to

the level of an excuse for Cause.

You know, it's not lost on me, Your Honor, that

we've got a pretty small panel to begin with, but that

figures into my thinking somewhat.

THE COURT: I'm going to exclude that person for

Cause. They testified that -- as to his wife's condition

and their concern. I grant him -- excuse him for Cause. I

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may revisit the other gentleman.

MR. MANGAN: The last one we would present, Your

Honor, would be Juror Number 40. This is the individual who

is 79 and indicated he had just been diagnosed with Stage 4

Lung Cancer.

THE COURT: And why should he be excused?

MR. MANGAN: Simply because, I believe, he

indicated that he's starting the treatments and is not clear

as to how that might impact him.

THE COURT: I'm not trying to be difficult. It's

possible we might all die. He's got Stage 4 Cancer. That's

horrible. He's 79. He didn't want to be excused for age.

MR. MANGAN: I understand that.

THE COURT: And there's no indication that he, you

or I are going to die, and we can't predict that. So help

me understand that?

MR. MANGAN: I think it was just -- my concern,

Your Honor, was -- from what I recall he mentioned was the

recency of the diagnosis and his uncertainty as to what the

treatments would be and how it would impact him, so I just

didn't -- we were concerned about something happening

during the trial to where he would suddenly reconsider

whether or not he could serve.

THE COURT: Fair enough. Defense wish to be heard

on 40?

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MR. KOHNEN: Again, not, not an appropriate reason,

we think, Your Honor. If they want to excuse him, they can

use a Peremptory. He indicated an interest in serving, and

I don't see anything on the horizon that he mentioned that

is going to prevent that.

THE COURT: We're going to revisit him. Has the

Government run through its Challenges for Cause?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. Defense prepared to

proceed? All right. While you're thinking, let me

interrupt. I'm revisiting Juror Number 7, the one with the

reconstructive hand surgery. Told us he was going to try

and do his PT at 7 or 7:30 a.m., but he had no indication

that he was scheduled.

I can't run the risk that he comes in tomorrow and

tells me he was unable to schedule it and cannot serve. I

excuse him for hardship and cause.

I'm ready if you are, but if you need more time,

I'm cool too?

MR. KOHNEN: Oh, no, we're ready to get started,

Judge. Let's start with Number 36.

THE COURT: How many do you have?

MR. KOHNEN: Four or five.

THE COURT: Okay. 36?

MR. KOHNEN: 36 is somebody who's still working

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at GE and has been there for 20 years. That in and of

itself we believe is enough that he should be excused for

Cause.

THE COURT: Government wish to be heard?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor. I believe he

indicated that he works in the business where they service

planes that have already -- or engines that have already

been sold. He did not have any connection to the design

process. Did not know the witnesses. Did not know about

the case, so we don't believe it's appropriate for a Cause

strike.

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, if I might. He said that

before he worked where he works now, he worked in research

and development. That's precisely the area we're talking

about.

THE COURT: Fair enough. I don't think his

association with GE per se is bias, and he's not excused for

Cause. There are other options.

MR. KOHNEN: Next is Number 16. Number 16 on his

Juror questionnaire indicated that when it comes to China,

he cannot be impartial.

THE COURT: Talking about Number 16?

MR. KOHNEN: That's right.

THE COURT: Government wish to be heard?

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, all I would indicate is

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that, you know, everyone checked different boxes related to

the questionnaire. If they had a specific concern about

that, they could have questioned him on it.

He was questioned on quite a number of other issues

related to, you know, his connection to GE, issues relating

to availability.

If they had concerns about his ability to be fair

and impartial, they could have questioned him directly, and

they chose not to.

THE COURT: Defense want the last word?

MR. KOHNEN: Yeah, Judge, with all due respect, the

gentleman checked the box. As soon as we saw that, we

assumed he's off for Cause. This is a person who on the

Jury questionnaire who checked the box that when it comes to

a Chinese person, he cannot be impartial.

THE COURT: Can we have a dialogue?

MR. KOHNEN: Sure.

THE COURT: On the questionnaire he was asked, did

he have any opinions or beliefs about China? And he said --

he didn't fill that out. He said -- didn't check it. He

said no.

Then on the next question: Is it going to affect

you -- how you rule on the testimony? He said, yes.

Didn't make any sense. We had him in here. We talked to

him numerous times, and I had no indication that he was

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going be biased.

What's your, what's your response to that? And I

just want to have a dialogue with you. I'm not trying to

steam roll anything --

MR. KOHNEN: Judge --

THE COURT: -- but I don't want you going hanging

your hat on that one check on the questionnaire.

MR. KOHNEN: You know, Judge, I -- that's the only

place I believe we need to hang our hat.

THE COURT: Well, keep your voice up for me,

please.

MR. KOHNEN: Judge, what, we were not -- once we

saw that, we were not interested in trying to rehabilitate

this person. Where they checked the box matters not. Where

they put those words in our view matters not.

THE COURT: Can I tell you something? That that

response was really helpful to me, and it's because we had a

dialogue without being rat-a-tat-tatting back and forth.

He's also got a child with heart disease.

MR. KOHNEN: Yes.

THE COURT: I excuse him for Cause.

MR. KOHNEN: Thank you, Judge. Note to self. I

understand.

THE COURT: What did you say?

MR. KOHNEN: I said, note to self. I understand

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what you're saying, and I appreciate it.

THE COURT: Note to self, Judge, thank God we have

great lawyers on both sides. Decent human beings as well.

Well dressed on occasion.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with co-counsel.)

MR. KOHNEN: Judge, I think we have one more. Just

a second.

THE COURT: I'm doing fine. Trying not to snap.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with co-counsel.)

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, our last request for a

Challenge for Cause would be Juror Number 9. You might

recall, he's the Prospective Juror who needs some dental

work done.

He also was an employee of GE Aviation. He was the

one, who in our view, hesitated pretty profoundly when asked

questions about GE, and would he be biased; and for that

reason -- those reasons, excuse me, and also some of his

answers on the Jury questionnaire particularly where he

believes a Juror should testify, he said that he strongly

believes -- or that Defendant, pardon me, said that he

strongly believes that, that and his military experience,

lead us to request that he be excused for Cause.

(Mr. Kohnen confers with co-counsel.)

MR. KOHNEN: Your Honor, in spirit of all

disclosure, if I said strongly that word may have been

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inappropriate --

THE COURT: If you'd speak up?

MR. KOHNEN: I didn't mean to use the word

strongly.

THE COURT: In regard to what? Your love of me? I

don't know what you're saying.

MR. KOHNEN: In regard to his thoughts that a

Defendant should testify.

THE COURT: Okay. I just didn't understand. Mr.

Mangan?

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, with respect to the issue

of the Defendant testifying, I believe the Court asked the

entire panel a series of questions covering that, and

everyone indicated that they could follow the Court's

instructions.

Secondly, I would indicate that a person's military

service is no ground at all for striking them from Jury

service. Certainly not for Cause.

And then with respect to his GE employment, I

believe he works as, it was -- had to do with electrical

maintenance was what he indicated, and that that was the

field that he worked in. Was not related to design. Did

not know any of the witnesses. Did not know anything about

the case.

And then with respect to the filling falling out,

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he indicated he would need to schedule an appointment. He

didn't know when that would be, but he, you know, seemed --

there seemed to be some flexibility there as to when that

might be able to be accommodated and perhaps that could even

work with flexibility with the trial schedule.

So putting all those together, Your Honor, we don't

see any ground for striking him for Cause.

THE COURT: I think there's too much that's

problematic about him. I'll start at the top. At the very

end of your examination of him as to whether he would be

able to not favor or disfavor a GE witness, I personally

thought I saw significant hesitation, and you have spoken to

him.

GE Aviation employment per se is not a basis, but

that caused me significant pause; and although I banged on

all of the Jurors about, you don't have to testify, his was

the most hostile expression and that in the questionnaire,

and I strike him for Cause.

Are we through with Challenges for Cause?

MR. KOHNEN: We are from the Defense, Your Honor.

Thank you.

THE COURT: From the Government?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. I'm inclined to recess. I

told them we were was going to try to get them at two.

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It's, like, 1:25. It's sort of within the 20 to 30 minute

suggestion.

Are you ready to come back -- I'll check if you're

not -- but do you think you'll be ready to come back at two

to do -- at 2 o'clock -- well, at 10 minutes of two -- in

half an hour -- in five minutes of two to do Peremptories?

The Government?

MR. MANGAN: That would be fine, Your Honor, if --

can you kind of maybe walk through what you want the

schedule to be after that?

THE COURT: In regard to what?

MR. MANGAN: Just in terms of whenever we finish,

would we go right into openings?

THE COURT: No.

MR. KOHNEN: Okay.

THE COURT: The Defense has something they want to

bring to my attention after we pick the Jury; is that right,

Mr. Kohnen?

MR. KOHNEN: That's correct, Judge.

THE COURT: And that's going to take a little time,

so we're going to break. We're not going straight to

closing.

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

THE COURT: We'll see if we get to closing.

Defense okay with the estimated time I come back to see if

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you're ready?

MR. KOHNEN: You want us back here at two or five

minutes to two?

THE COURT: Five minutes to two?

MR. KOHNEN: Okay. Yes, Judge, we'll get it done.

THE COURT: Thanks. You don't have to leave, but

you may. We're in recess.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. This court is now in

recess.

(Court was in recess at 1:23 p.m. and resumed at 2:07 p.m.)

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. This court is in

session pursuant to the recess.

THE COURT: You may be seated. Thank you.

Government team is here in full. Defense team is here in

full. The Defendant is here with the interpreter. No

Jurors in the room.

We are prepared to proceed to Peremptory

Challenges. Is the Government ready to proceed?

MR. MANGAN: We are, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Is the Defense?

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. Does the Government wish to

exercise its first Peremptory Challenge?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor. We strike Number 24.

THE COURT: 24 is stricken by the Government. Does

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the Defendant wish to exercise its first and second

Peremptory strike?

MR. MIEDEL: Yes, Your Honor. We ask to strike

Number 21 and Number 36.

THE COURT: Both are stricken, 21 and 36. Is the

Government ready to exercise its second Peremptory?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor. We strike Number 14.

THE COURT: 14 is stricken. Tell me to slow down

if I need to. Is the Defendant ready to exercise its third

and fourth Challenges?

MR. MIEDEL: Yes, Your Honor. We ask to strike

Number 18 and Number 28.

THE COURT: 18 and 28 are stricken. Is the

Government ready to exercise its third Peremptory strike?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor. We strike Number 22.

THE COURT: 22. Very well. 22 is stricken. Is

the Defense ready to exercise its fifth and sixth Peremptory

Challenges?

MR. MIEDEL: Yes, Your Honor. We ask to strike

Number 26 and Number 5.

THE COURT: 26 and 25 are stricken.

MR. MIEDEL: I'm sorry. Number 26 and Number 5.

THE COURT: Yes, and I meant to say that. 26 and 5

are stricken.

MR. MIEDEL: Thank you.

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THE COURT: Is the Government ready on its fourth?

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, we strike Number 32.

THE COURT: 32. 32 is stricken. Is the Defense

ready on seven and eight?

MR. MIEDEL: Yes, Number 13 and Number 1.

THE COURT: 13 and -- nope. 13 and 1 are

stricken. Government ready to exercise its fifth

Challenge?

MR. MANGAN: Just one moment, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, we'd strike Number 33.

THE COURT: 33 is stricken. Defense ready for its

ninth Peremptory Challenge?

MR. MIEDEL: Yes, Number 25.

THE COURT: Number 25 is stricken. Is the

Government ready to issue its sixth and final Peremptory

Challenge as to Jurors?

MR. MANGAN: One quick moment, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Yes. Yes.

(Mr. Mangan confers with co-counsel.)

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, we'd strike Number 30.

THE COURT: Number 30 is stricken by the

Government. And we come to Defense for his tenth final

Peremptory Challenge as to Jurors?

MR. MIEDEL: Your Honor, the last Challenge is

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Number 17.

THE COURT: 17. 17 is stricken. Give me just a

moment. I'd like to identify those 12 that I think have

been identified as Jurors, and then we'll proceed to

Alternates if there's confirmation.

I see our Jurors as including Numbers 2, 3, 4, 6,

8, 11, 12, 19, 20, 23, 27, 29.

Is the Government able to confirm its

understanding?

MR. MANGAN: That's our understanding, yes.

THE COURT: And the Defense?

MR. MIEDEL: One moment, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Mr. Miedel confers with co-counsel.

MR. MIEDEL: Your Honor, you skipped over seven, is

that because you've decided to strike him for Cause?

THE COURT: Yeah, we did that before the break.

That's the guy with the --

MR. MIEDEL: Right. I thought maybe, I thought --

I thought I heard you say you were reserving on that.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

THE COURT: Seven has been excused.

MR. MIEDEL: Okay.

THE COURT: It was before the break.

MR. MIEDEL: In that case we are -- we agree that

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that is the correct list.

THE COURT: That these are the 12? Thank you.

We've been planning on three Alternate strikes -- three

Alternates who -- who is the Government's first Alternate

strike?

MR. MANGAN: 35, Your Honor.

THE COURT: 35. Who is the Defense's first

Alternate strike?

MR. KOHNEN: 27, Your Honor.

THE COURT: 27 is stricken.

MS. GLATFELTER: Your Honor, I thought 27 was on

the panel?

(the Court confers with Ms. Frankian.)

THE COURT: 27 is on the Jury. So you can't strike

that. 29 forward.

MR. MIEDEL: We need just one minute.

THE COURT: You're doing fine.

(Mr. Miedel confers with co-counsel.)

MR. MIEDEL: Your Honor, Number 37.

THE COURT: Number 37 is stricken. The Government

have its final strike as to Alternates?

MR. MANGAN: Your Honor, 39.

THE COURT: 39. 39 is stricken. And does the

Defense have its last Alternate strike?

(Mr. Miedel confers with co-counsel.)

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MR. MIEDEL: Your Honor, we'll strike Number 40.

THE COURT: Number 40. I believe that the three

Alternates are 34, 38, and 41, and ask when you're ready to

confirm if that's your understanding?

MR. MANGAN: That's our understanding, Your Honor.

THE COURT: From the Government.

MR. FLORIAN: Yes, that is our understanding.

THE COURT: From the Defense as well. We have 12

Jurors and three Alternates, and we have completed the task

to date. Are we ready to bring down the Jurors, the

Alternates, and the balance of the panel from the

Government's perspective?

MR. MANGAN: We're prepared, yes.

THE COURT: Defense?

MR. KOHNEN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. Ms. Santoro, would you call

for those -- for all Jurors, please?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: Yes, Judge.

(Discussion held off the record.)

THE COURT: While we're in recess, we'll go back on

the record before the Jurors come through the door. We're

going to bring them down, all of them, put them in the back.

We're going to call up the 15, put them in the box --

MR. KOHNEN: They're at the door. Well, they're

filling in.

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THE COURT: The Marshal's guarding the door. I

don't want them in here, so will you guard the door, please?

Thank you.

All right. Outside the presence of the Jurors.

We're going to bring everybody back. We're going to put

them in the gallery. We're going to call forward the 15,

put them in the box. We're going to excuse all of the

others and thank them.

We're then going to instruct the Jury

preliminarily, and then we would pause, break, and the next

thing would be opening statements.

I don't -- if we're doing opening statements, I

want both of them on the same day. Do you want to break

after we pick the Juries and do opening statements in the

morning or would you like to plunge ahead or would you leave

that to my -- does the Government have a position?

MS. GLATFELTER: Your Honor, as much as we'd like

to move ahead, I think it will be late by the time we get

started; and I think, you know, Mr. Kohnen could get

started, go until past 5 o'clock probably, which is also

probably not the situation we want to have for the Jurors,

so I would propose tomorrow morning to do both of them.

THE COURT: And what's the Defense's sense?

MR. KOHNEN: Judge, I agree with Ms. Glatfelter.

We promised them that we'd finish at 4:30, and I don't want

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to get off on the wrong foot.

THE COURT: I agree. We'll push closing -- opening

statements till tomorrow. We've all been through a ringer.

There's nothing wrong with taking a break and coming back

fresh in the morning to go with opening statements. I think

it's also of an assistance to the Jury.

Did you acknowledge Mr. Kohnen that Ms. Glatfelter

was looking out for you in suggesting that if you went

second this afternoon, you'd be rushed?

MR. KOHNEN: I will be eternally grateful until

tomorrow morning.

THE COURT: The record shall reflect that. Thank

you, Mr. Kohnen. All right. We can have the Jurors come

in. Thank you, Madam Marshal.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise for the Jury.

(Prospective Jurors entered the Courtroom.)

MR. MANGAN: Did you want --

THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. We're

putting them all in the gallery; right? All of them in the

gallery. Festival seating in the gallery as distanced as

you can be.

You don't have to sit in your Juror number. You

have to sit in the gallery. Try and social distance as best

you can. This will just take a moment. Thank you, Mr.

Mangan. Did you hear me?

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MR. MANGAN: Yes.

THE COURT: Everybody in the gallery, we don't have

to sit in your assigned seat. Try and social distance as

best you can. This will just be for a moment.

Sit anywhere you wish. Not in your number

necessarily. All in the gallery. Try and social distance

as best you can.

All are seated in the gallery. You don't have to

be in your correct number. Social distance as best that

you're able.

If you've arrived, you may all be seated. Do we

know that all persons, Jurors, are here? Somebody's

counted?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: Yes, they have.

THE COURT: Very well. Welcome back and thank you

for your patience to the Prospective Jurors now all seated

in the gallery.

We've reached our decision, and I'm now going to

call forward the 15 of you who have been selected as Jurors

in this case.

As I call your name -- number, please step forward

and walk up here to Ms. Santoro, who will direct you to a

seat of the Jury box. We're putting all 15 in the Jury box

briefly.

Once you're seated, I'm going to make a brief

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statement, and then I'm going to go ahead and excuse

everyone else in the gallery.

After everyone else has left, the 15 in the box

will be sworn in as Jurors, and then we'll move you -- most

of you back into the gallery to an assigned seat so that

everyone is socially distanced.

When I spoke with you earlier this morning, I urged

you not to be offended if you'd been selected for the Jury.

If you have been selected for the Jury, I urge you not to be

disappointed nor ecstatic, and here we are.

Juror Number 2, if you would approach Ms. Santoro.

Juror Number 3, Juror Number 4, Juror Number 6, Juror Number

8, Juror Number 11, Juror Number 12, Juror Number 19,

Juror 20, Juror 23, Juror 27, Juror Number 29, Juror

Number 34, Juror Number 38, Juror Number 41.

Ms. Santoro, we have 15 in the Jury box; is that

right?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: That's correct, Judge.

THE COURT: Thank you. As to the 15, if you sit --

sitting in the box, you've all been asked questions in

order to determine your ability to make decisions in this

case, free from any bias or sympathy for or against either

side.

I must now ask some final possibly repetitive

questions to ensure your qualifications as Jurors. Please

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bear with me as I ask those questions now.

Is there anyone in the Juror box that cannot

promise to decide this case strictly on the facts as

developed from the witness stand, and the exhibits admitted

into evidence, and the law as I give it to you?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands.

Is there anyone here who cannot promise to keep an

open mind, not discuss the case with anyone, including your

fellow Jurors, throughout the entire trial until you're

ordered to retire to the Jury Room to deliberate?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands.

Can any of you think of any reason why you could

not be fair and impartial in carrying out your duties in

this trial?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. Finally, is there any

reason at all why any of you feel that you could not or

should not serve on this Jury?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: I see no hands. This is my last

chance. I've determined you 15 are our Jury. I can't find

out tomorrow that you have a dentist appointment or

something that's going to interfere with your being here.

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I've still got people I could plug in.

Does anyone have any conflict with attending the

trial on every day as currently calendered beginning at

9:30, in the courthouse at 9:15? We'll try and get you out

at 4:30.

Anything that's going to interfere with that? Is

there anyone in the box among the 15 who have anything they

need to tell me?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Thank you. You are our Jury. I'll be

back to you.

To those of you seated in the gallery and not

selected, I want to thank you for coming. It's impossible

to determine at the outset how many Prospective Jurors need

to be summonsed in order for us to seat a Jury.

Even though you were not selected to serve on this

Jury, please know that your presence and participation in

the Jury selection process is a important contribution to

the workings of this court.

Jury service is one of the most important

activities of being a United States citizen. I believe it's

a sacrifice required by democracy. We very much appreciate

your willingness to serve.

Those of you not selected still in the gallery are

excused with our gratitude. I hope a piece of this was of

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interest, and you are free to leave the courthouse. We will

rise out of respect for you as you leave for the day.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise.

(Prospective Jurors not selected exited the Courtroom.)

THE COURT: The balance of the Jury venire have

been excused. You may all be seated. 15 Jurors remain

present in the Jury box. The others are gone. I did not

hear any high fiving, and I want to thank the 15 of you for

the commitment you've taken on.

Ms. Santoro, I would ask that you please swear in

the Jury to service. If you would stand and raise your

hand, and you're going to be sworn to decide this case

fairly.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: Do you, and each of you, do

solemnly swear or affirm that you will well and truly try,

and true deliverance make, in the case now in trial and

render a true verdict according to the law and the evidence.

Respond by saying I do.

ALL JURORS: I do.

THE COURT: Thank you, all. We're now going to

seat them social distanced in the box and in the gallery.

Ms. Santoro's going to assist with this, and this should be

something to behold.

(Laughter.)

COURTROOM DEPUTY: So all but three will come back.

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So are we starting with the back?

MS. FRANKIAN: Yes, the back row one and the far

right, one in the middle, and one on the far left, and then

in the gallery it's the second and the fourth row, and I

think there's a sticker -- a red sticker --

COURTROOM DEPUTY: Okay.

MS. FRANKIAN: -- where they should sit.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: So if you want to follow me down

this front row.

THE COURT: Is there anyone in here who has trouble

with vision, such that you need to be in the box with a

screen very close to you or on the edges where the big

screens are? Although we'll have a big screen in the

middle. Two small screens in the middle.

Anybody who needs to have the screen right up close

to them?

(No Prospective Juror raised their hand.)

THE COURT: Very well. Now that I've assisted --

COURTROOM DEPUTY: Thank you, Judge.

THE COURT: -- would you continue the exercise?

COURTROOM DEPUTY: So we're only going to have

three in the box? So you three (Indicating) stay here. The

rest of you come with me. Two in the back. One in the

front.

(Jurors were seated socially distanced.)

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THE COURT: You may all be seated. In the second

row to my left, why are those two -- they're in separate

rows, okay. It looks like people are socially distanced.

To those three in the box, you're not special. It just

worked out that way.

(Laughter.)

THE COURT: Thank you for your understanding. So

the seat you're in now is your seat for the duration of

trial. Make sure you remember where it is.

I prefer you didn't carve your initials in it, but

I want you to be able to get to your own seat without a lot

of direction; understood?

(Jurors nod their heads affirmatively.)

THE COURT: Very well. Members of the Jury, I'm

going to give you some preliminary instructions to guide you

in your participation in the trial now that you've been

sworn.

Please pay special attention and listen carefully.

I know that you will. I'm going to have to read some stuff

to you.

The last time somebody read to me out loud, it was

my mother trying to get me to go to sleep. I urge you not

to go to sleep.

If it's any help, once I get through these

instructions, I'm going to let you go for the day. You've

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been here for a long time. It's quarter of three. We'll

get these instructions under our belt. I'll remind you

about what not to do when you're outside the presence of the

courtroom, and we'll send you home.

When you come back tomorrow, you need to be in the

ninth floor Jury Room by 9:15, and we will endeavor to get

you down here at 9:30.

We'll start with opening statements. That is not

evidence, and then we'll begin to hear evidence. So here

are the preliminary instructions.

Duty of the Jury. It will be your duty to find

from the evidence what the facts are. You, and you alone,

will be the judges of the facts.

When the time comes, I will instruct you on the

relevant law. You'll then apply those facts to the law that

I will give you, and you must follow that law whether you

agree with it or not.

Nothing the Court -- I, this Judge -- may say or

do during the course of trial is intended to indicate in any

way or should be taken by you as indicating what your

verdict should be.

As to evidence, the evidence from which you will

find the facts will consist of the testimony of witnesses,

documents, and other items received into the record as

exhibits, and any facts that the lawyers agree to or

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stipulate to that I will tell you about or anything the

Court instructs you to find.

Certain things are not evidence and must not be

considered by you. I'll list them for you now: Statements,

arguments, and questions by lawyers are not evidence.

Objections to questions are not evidence.

Lawyers have an obligation to their clients to make

objections when they believe evidence is being offered

improperly under the Rules of Evidence. Should not be

influenced by the objection or by my ruling on it.

If the objection is sustained, in other words

upheld, then ignore the question. If the objection is

overruled, then treat the answer like any other; and if

you are instructed that some item of evidence is received

for a limited purpose only, you must follow that

instruction.

Testimony that the Court has excluded or told you

to disregard is not evidence and must not be considered.

Anything you may have seen or heard outside the courtroom

is not evidence and must be disregarded. You are to decide

the case solely on the evidence presented here in the

courtroom.

There are two kinds of evidence, direct and

circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact,

such as testimony of an eyewitness. For example, if a

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witness testified that he saw it raining outside, you

believed him, that would be direct evidence that it was

raining.

Circumstantial evidence is proof of facts from

which you may infer or conclude that other facts exist. For

example, if someone walked into the courtroom wearing a

raincoat covered with drops of water and carrying a wet

umbrella, that would be circumstantial evidence from which

you could conclude that it was raining.

Direct and circumstantial evidence are afforded the

same weight. I will give you further instructions on these

as well as other matters at the end of the case and perhaps

in the middle-ish, but keep in mind you may consider both

direct and circumstantial evidence.

It will be up to you to decide which witnesses to

believe, which witnesses not to believe, or how much of any

witness's testimony to accept or reject.

I'll give you some guidelines for determining the

credibility of the witnesses at the end of the case.

As to rules for criminal cases. As you know, this

is a criminal case. There are three basic rules about a

criminal case that you must keep in mind.

First, the Defendant is presumed guilty until

proven -- is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's

the basic one. Perhaps I ought to state it accurately. The

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Defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

The charges brought by the Government against the

Defendant are only accusations. Nothing more. It's not

proof of guilt or anything else. The Defendant, therefore,

starts out with a clean slate.

Second, the burden of proof is on the Government

until the very end of the case. The Defendant has no burden

to prove his innocence or to present any evidence or to

testify.

Since the Defendant has the right to remain silent,

the law prohibits you from arriving at your verdict by

considering that the Defendant may have not testified or may

not have called witnesses or presented evidence.

Third, the Government must prove the Defendant's

guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Proof beyond a reasonable

doubt means proof which is so convincing that you would not

hesitate to rely and act upon it in making the most

important decisions in your own lives.

I will give you further instructions on this point

later, but bear in mind that in this respect a criminal case

is different from a civil case.

Summary of the case. I'm now going to give you a

brief overview of the Government's allegations in this case.

This is just a short summary. You remember that these are

the Government's allegations. The Defendant is presumed

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innocent.

The Defendant, Yanjun Xu, is a citizen and resident

of the People's Republic of China. The Government alleges

that Defendant is also a Deputy Division Director with the

Regional Sector of the Ministry State Security, MSS, for the

People's Republic of China. MSS is China's Intelligence and

Security Agency.

The Government alleges that part of Defendant's

alleged duties on behalf of MSS, Defendant worked with other

MSS officers as well as other institutions operated by the

Chinese Government to unlawfully obtain trade secrets from

aviation and aerospace companies in the United States and

Europe all for the benefit of People's Republic of China and

its various agencies and instructions.

In this case the Defendant is charged in a document

called an indictment with four counts.

Count 1 charges Conspiracy to Commit Economic

Espionage. The Government alleges that from 2013 to April 1

of 2018, Defendant engaged in a conspiracy to, without

authorization, obtain, steal, receive, buy, or possess trade

secrets belonging to various aviation and aerospace

companies in the United States and Europe all for the

benefit of the Chinese Government.

Count 2 charges Conspiracy to Commit Trade Secret

Theft. The Government alleges that from 2013 to April 1,

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2018, Defendant engaged in a conspiracy to, without

authorization, obtain, steal, receive, buy, or possess trade

secrets belonging to various aviation and aerospace

companies in the United States and Europe for the economic

benefit of everyone other than the owner of the trade secret

and with the intention and knowledge that the offense will

injure the owner of that trade secret.

Count 3 charges Attempted Economic Espionage. The

Government alleges that from May 2017 to April 1, 2018,

Defendant attempted to, without authorization, obtain,

steal, receive, buy, or possess trade secrets belonging to

GE Aviation all for the benefit of the Chinese Government.

Count 4 charges Attempted Trade Secret Theft. The

Government alleges that from May 2017 to April 1, 2018, the

Defendant attempted to, without authorization, obtain,

steal, receive, buy, or possess trade secrets belonging to

GE Aviation and did so for the benefit of someone other than

GE Aviation and with the intention and knowledge that the

offense will injure GE Aviation.

The Defendant denies these charges and is presumed

innocent.

As to the charges, I'll give you detailed

instructions on the law at the end of the case, and those

instructions will control your deliberations and decision.

Now, conduct of the Jury. A few words about your

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conduct as Jurors. Just to be clear, these rules apply

going forward regardless of whether you are in the courtroom

or not.

So even when you're out during your lunch break or

when you go home in the evening or over the weekend, you're

still bound by the rules I'm about to discuss with you.

First, you as Jurors must decide this case based

solely on the evidence presented here within the four walls

of this courtroom.

This means that during the trial, you must not

conduct any independent research about this case, about any

of the matters in the case, and/or about any of the

individuals involved in the case.

In other words, you cannot, shall not search the

Internet, websites, or blogs, or use any other electronic

tools to obtain information about this case or to help you

decide this case.

You should not consult dictionaries, if you're

familiar with what they are, or reference materials nor do

any independent research. You may not try to find out

information from any source outside the confines of this

courtroom.

Second rule is that until the trial is completely

over, you may not discuss this case with anyone; and when I

say anyone, I mean, anyone: Not your family. Not your

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spouse. Not your significant other. Not your children.

Not your friends. Not your co-workers. Not your Twitter

followers. No one. In fact, until you retire for

deliberations, you may not even discuss the case with your

fellow Jurors.

Only after you retire and begin your deliberations,

will you be allowed to begin to discuss the case and discuss

it fully among yourselves.

But even then you still cannot discuss the case

with anyone else until you've returned a verdict in this

courtroom to me, and the case is at an absolute end.

Also I'm sure that many, if not all, of you

communicate with others using some form of technology or

some electronic device, smartphones, iPhones, iPads,

computers, other forms of technology. Keep in mind that

when I tell you not to communicate with others about this

case, that also means that you cannot use any of your

electronic devices to communicate with anybody about the

case.

In fact, cell phones must be turned off at all

times when you're in the courtroom, and they will not be

permitted in the Jury Room during deliberations.

So, again, you may not communicate with anybody

about the case, whether it's in-person, on your cell phone,

smartphone, iPhone, iPad, tablet, or computer, whether it's

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through E-Mail, text message, blog, website, Twitter,

Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, or YouTube.

I know -- or my people do -- that there are many

other modes of communication and social media platforms that

I didn't mention, but whether or not I specifically

mentioned them doesn't matter. You can't use any of it to

talk about the case or independently research the case.

Also if you become aware that another Juror has

violated any of these instructions, you must inform either

Ms. Santoro, Ms. Frankian, or me right away.

A Juror who violates any of these rules,

jeopardizes the fairness of these proceedings and a mistrial

could result, which would require the entire progress to

start over.

Finally, do not form any opinion until all the

evidence is in. Keep an open mind until you start your

deliberations at the end of the case.

As to note-taking. If you want to take notes

during the course of the trial, we'll provide you with a pen

and a notebook to do so.

However, it's very difficult to take detailed notes

and pay attention to what the witnesses are saying at the

same time.

If you do take notes, be sure that your note-taking

does not interfere with your listening to and considering

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all of the evidence.

Also if you do take notes, do not discuss them with

anyone until you begin your deliberations. Do not take your

notes with you at the end of the day. Be sure to leave them

in the Jury Room.

If you choose not to take notes, remember that it

is your own individual responsibility to listen carefully to

the evidence. You cannot give this responsibility away and

rely on someone who's taking notes.

We rely on the judgment of all members of the Jury.

You must all remember the evidence in this case. We're not

going to be able to give you transcripts.

During the course of the trial. Tomorrow morning

when you come back, the attorneys will make opening

statements. The Government will go first, and then the

Defense. An opening statement is merely an outline to help

you understand the evidence as they expect it to come in

during the case.

Opening statements are neither evidence nor

arguments. They're supposed to be a road map of what the

evidence the lawyers expect to be.

After all of the evidence is in, after all

witnesses have testified, I will instruct you in the law,

and you'll hear closing arguments from both sides.

Closing arguments are not evidence. You will then

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be excused and taken to the Jury Room to begin

deliberations. That concludes Jury selection and your

preliminary instructions.

Momentarily, I'm going to release you for the day.

I'm going to get my eyes out of the paperwork and talk to

you about not discussing this case.

Every day when I go home my wife asks me, what

happened in court today? I would presume that in your lives

when you go home to your family and friends, people will ask

you, what's going on? What kind of case is it? What did

you hear? Who said what?

You cannot answer any of that. You need to tell

them that the Federal Judge has instructed you not to

discuss the case with anyone, including your loved ones.

So I'm going to release the Jury momentarily. Is

there anything the lawyers need from me in the presence of

the Jury before I get ready to excuse them, Mr. Mangan?

MR. MANGAN: No, Your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: Defense?

MR. KOHNEN: No. Thank you, Judge Black.

THE COURT: Very well. All right. Until the case

is completed, you must not discuss this case with anyone.

This includes members of your family and people involved in

the trial, and your fellow Jurors or anyone else.

Further this applies to all forms of

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communications, including phone, E-Mail, text, Facebook,

Twitter, et cetera.

I think there's going to be an inherit pressure to

tell your loved ones something. Yeah, it's an espionage

case. You may not do that. The minute you answer one

question, there's going to be a follow-up question.

Tell them the judge has ordered you on threat of

Contempt not to discuss the case with anyone.

Someone approaches you and tries to discuss the

trial with you, let me know about it immediately. You may

not conduct any independent research about the trial, read,

listen to, or watch any news reports of the trial.

You may not check or use Google, Facebook, Twitter,

et cetera, to find information about any aspect of the case.

Finally, remember that it's especially important

that you keep an open mind. Do not form or express an

opinion on the case until it's finally submitted to you

after all of the evidence and all the witnesses have

testified.

I'll make an effort to remind you of these rules

each time we break, but even if I forget to remind you, the

rules remain in effect throughout the entire trial.

I don't think I can fully express or that you can

fully infer or read from me how grateful I am on behalf of

the court and the community, and how grateful the lawyers

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and the parties and the Defendant are for you taking on

this work. It's an extraordinary credit to you, and I thank

you.

I'm going release you momentarily. You're welcome

leave and go back to your home and to your loved ones. Get

a good dinner. Sleep well. Come back to the courthouse by

9:15 to the floor -- the room on the ninth floor, and we'll

try and get you at 9:30 and bring you into the courtroom.

Are there any pressing questions from the Jurors

before I wave good-bye for the day?

A JUROR: I have one question. So which Jurors

are going to be deliberating and which ones are the

Alternates?

THE COURT: And I'm sorry to tell you that's my

secret.

A JUROR: Oh.

THE COURT: We need you here, and if I tell you

you're an Alternate, maybe you might not be interested. So

we never tell the Alternates who they are, and then at the

end of the case, I have the unfortunate experience of

saying, thank you for sitting here. I'm going to release

you before deliberations.

I will sit with you personally and hear what you

think or have thought after the case is over.

Are there any compelling questions from the Jurors

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before I release you from the day?

Out of respect for you, we'll rise as you leave.

See you at 9:30. Here at the courthouse at 9:15. If

somebody in the gallery would lead the group out? Anybody,

start walking out.

(Jury exited the Courtroom.)

THE COURT: Jurors have left the room, and the door

is closing. I think we're ready to break, but -- no, we're

not. We need to address something. Should we do that now?

If you may, we'll all be seated, please. Ms.

Frankian, if you will join me, please? Who wishes to bring

something to the Court's attention from the Defendant's

perspective?

MR. McBRIDE: I will, Your Honor, if I may.

THE COURT: Very well.

MR. McBRIDE: Judge, I want to follow-up --

THE COURT: Very well. Are you comfortable coming

to the podium --

MR. McBRIDE: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: -- or prefer to be there? I want to be

able to grab you.

MR. McBRIDE: Whatever's easiest, Judge.

Whatever's easiest. I want to follow-up on perhaps

something Mr. Mangan and Mr. Kohnen were talking about this

morning.

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The stipulations. We received important

information from the Government yesterday, which we

appreciated; and we are going to be able to enter into

stipulations, but I just want to make sure that we're clear

on the record on what those are.

Those stipulations that the Government has asked

for go to the authenticity of the subscriber information for

basically E-Mail accounts.

We are not agreeing to the authentication of the

content of those E-Mail accounts, and the Government bears

the burden of -- or the burden of production to get those

in. I want to make that clear for the Court.

Secondly, the -- there are three E-Mails that the

Government has shared with us yesterday that they have --

that there are more than one people who are using these

accounts or have access to these accounts, and I'd just like

to bring them to the attention of the Court.

It's jast -- J-A-S-T -- xyj@gmail.com. Waiting for

Ms. Frankian, Your Honor. JAST -- I only spell this because

it's a name -- QH -- I'm sorry -- Q-U-H-U-I@gmail.com; and

the third one is jastburton -- B-U-R-T-O-N -- @gmail.com.

Our position is going to be, Your Honor, that those

can't be -- the content of those cannot be authenticated. I

just want to bring those to the Court's attention so we can

-- so we're all on the same sheet of paper when we address

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it, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I really appreciate the heads-up

approach.

MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Is there more that you wanted to bring

to the Court's attention?

MR. McBRIDE: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. You may step down.

MR. McBRIDE: Thank you.

THE COURT: Does the Defense wish to be heard in

any regard -- in that regard -- or the Government? Sorry.

MR. MANGAN: That's all right. Just briefly, Your

Honor. It sounds like some of this may be hashed out as we

go along. I would want to point out, first of all, the

information. We did provide that information yesterday, and

what we agreed to -- get to is that the issue with the IP

addresses indicated that there may be multiple people using

the account. That didn't mean that that was the only

explanation for what was going on with the IP addresses.

We also would like to say that, you know, there's

two things involved. One is, you know, the authentication

of the evidence; but then, secondly, you know, are there any

issues with respect to hearsay, so forth like that.

With respect to authentication, that is a fairly

low bar. To the extent we have sought these records from

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Google or from Apple, and they provide the certification

that says, for this account address, these are the records

that we have as a subscriber, and these are the records that

we have related to the account, we believe that the

certification will be sufficient.

We also intend to present evidence tying the

accounts together and tying the accounts to the Defendant,

both through external sources as well as the content of the

accounts themselves.

THE COURT: Very well.

MR. MANGAN: And if -- unless we're going on to

other issues, there was one other item --

THE COURT: I was going to give Mr. McBride --

MR. MANGAN: Okay.

THE COURT: -- an opportunity to respond to that

from where you are, sir --

MR. McBRIDE: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: -- if you need to.

MR. McBRIDE: Your Honor, I think we have a

disagreement about the law, but I don't believe this is the

time or place to make that argument.

THE COURT: I'm going to get that printed up. Put

it on a wall. Thank you. I just wanted to give you that

chance.

MR. McBRIDE: Thank you, sir.

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THE COURT: All right. Now, did the Government --

has the Defense brought everything to the Court's attention

that you wish to?

MR. McBRIDE: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: Does the Government have additional

items?

MR. MANGAN: Just one item, Your Honor. With

respect to the opening statements, I know the Court has

indicated your ruling with respect to the Defendant's

Rule 404(b) Motion.

The way we responded to those, we presented

alternative ways that that would be admissible. So when we

present those, especially in opening, we want to just

clarify -- are there any limitation from the Court's

perspective as to whether or not those are perceived as

direct evidence versus other acts evidence or something like

that that we should be aware of?

THE COURT: So-called other acts, the Court has

determined are intrinsic to the offense, and they also speak

to the motivation, intent, modus operandi and the like. Did

I respond to your inquiry?

MR. MANGAN: Yes, Your Honor, you did.

THE COURT: Okay. Is there more you want to run by

me today --

MR. MANGAN: No, Your Honor. Thank you.

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THE COURT: -- from the Government? Okay. Is

there anything else today from the Government -- Defense?

MR. McBRIDE: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Very well. We're going to recess. I'd

like you here by, whatever we said, 9:15 at the latest, so

we can start at 9:30.

I want you to rest well tonight -- although I know

you won't -- and I want to tell you that I'm enormously

impressed by the excellence of all of the attorneys. We're

in recess.

COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. Court's now in

recess.

(Court recessed at 3:16 p.m.)

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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

I, Julie Hohenstein, Federal Official Realtime

Court Reporter, in and for the United States District Court

for the Southern District of Ohio, do hereby certify that

pursuant to Section 753, Title 28, United States Code that

the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the

stenographically reported proceedings held in the

above-entitled matter and that the transcript page format is

in conformance with the regulations of the Judicial

Conference of the United States.

s/Julie Hohenstein

__________________________________ November 2, 2021

JULIE HOHENSTEIN, RPR, CRR, RMR

FEDERAL OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

I certify that the foregoing is a true and

correct copy of the transcript originally filed with the

clerk of court on November 2, 2021, and incorporating

redactions requested by Judge Timothy S. Black, in

accordance with Judicial Conference policy. Redacted

characters appear as a black box in the transcript.

s/Julie Hohenstein

__________________________________ November 5, 2021

Julie Hohenstein, RPR, CRR, RMR

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