UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

DIAMOND AIR CHARTER, INC 

FAA Docket No, 

CP10EA0004 

FDMS No. _ 

FAA-2010-062rQ 

Thursday, January 12, 2012 CD 

CO 

a 

The above-entitled matter came on 

for hearing via teleconference, pursuant to 

notice, at 10:00 a.m. 

BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN 

Administrative Law Judge 

l O 

T3 "zS >•. 

oS^ 

JAN 2 ^2012 

^iEARliqQ DOCKET 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
APPEARANCES: 

On Be half of the Respondent -. 

GREGORY WINTON, ESQ. 

of: Aviation Law Experts, LLC 

One Research Court 

Suite 450 

Rockville, MD 20850 

(301) 294-8550 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

2ACHARY HERMAN, ESQ. 

Attorney, Office of the Regional 

Counsel, AEA-7 

Eastern Region 

of : Federal Aviation Administration 

1 Aviation Plaza 

Room 561 

Jamaica, NY 11434 

(718) 553-3258 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE , N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross.com 
P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

9:59 a.m 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: We' re on the 

record in the matter of Diamond Air Charter. 

This is Docket number FAA-2010- 0620. Today is 

Thursday, January 12th, 2012, and the parties 

have convened by telephone for a third 

litigation scheduling conference. 

The FAA is represented by its 

attorney of record, Zachary Berman. The 

respondent, Diamond Air Charter, Inc., is 

represented by its attorney, Gregory Winton. 

Good morning, counsel. 

MR. WINTON: Good morning. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am just going 

to do a little history for the record and then 

I'm going to ask you to tell me how things are 

going. 

As I understand it this case has 

been with the Office of Administrative 

Hearings since approximately June 3rd, 2010. 

The case was reassigned to me on July 14, 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

2011. We had our first litigation scheduling 

conference on August 10th, 2011. A second 

litigation scheduling conference was set on 

September 7, 2011, by agreement of the 

parties. 

Prior to September 7, 2 011, the 

parties jointly requested a one-month 

continuance which was granted. A second 

litigation scheduling conference was then set 

up for October 13, 2011. 

On October 13, 2011, there was a 

request to continue the litigation scheduling 

conference again to today's date and time to 

accommodate the parties request and interest 

to see if a settlement could be reached 

because of the potential dissolution of the 

company. 

So I' m going to turn to you first, 

Mr. Berman, and ask you if that, in fact, has 

occurred. 

MR. BERMAN: We have not resolved 

the case. At the last conference Mr. Winton 

(202} 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE . N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross com 
said that there would be an arbitration. And 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

the arbitration, Mr. Winton informed me, was 

postponed until January 17th. That's nexc 

week. 

And following, there will be some 

time there will be needed for a decision to be 

made, so it looks like we still need more time 

to resolve this. 

MR. WINTON: Correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let me ask 

you this. Why was the arbitration postponed? 

And what, in your opinion, and I'll address 

this to you, Mr. VJinton. What, in your 

opinion, will occur at the arbitration that 

would impact litigating the case before this 

Court? 

MR. WINTON: It's interesting, 

Judge. First of all, I'm not representing 

Diamond Air Charter in the arbitration itself 

so I can't speak to why, although I was told 

that it was postponed by request, I believe, 

by the plaintiff in that matter. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

What occurred is Diamond Air 

Charter was the namesake of John Diamond, who 

was a longtime client of mine. He was met by 

some investors who bought into shares of stock 

of Diamond Air Charter, kept the name and then 

they let him go. 

And the arbitration is actually a 

lawsuit between the now stockholders of 

Diamond Air Charter and John Diamond himself, 

and so because there's a conflict I can no 

longer represent Mr. John Diamond himself. 

I do represent the company, but 

because it's defunct and no longer operates as 

an air charter service I'm only representing 

in this matter alone. So that's the dynamic 

of what is occurring. 

I was told by my client, the 

corporate entity, that they can't dissolve the 

corporation even though it's not doing any 

business, because if they did that effectively 

they would no longer have standing as a 

plaintiff in the arbitration against John 

(202} 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
Diamond himself. 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well , just so 

that I understand this clearly. You, Mr. 

Winton, have represented John Diamond both as 

an individual and as a business owner in the 

past? 

MR. WINTON: Correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: You, Mr. Winton, 

still have a agent relationship as an attorney 

with Mr. Diamond, but not in this case that's 

before this Administrative Court today. 

MR. WINTON: Actually though, what 

happened was once the investors came in and 

brought shares of stock of Diamond Air 

Charter, I then represented the corporation no 

longer representing John Diamond individually. 

And once he was let go from the 

corporation I was the n conflicted from 

representing him personally or as a corporate 

member of Diamond Air Charter. So I only 

represent the corporate entity at this point 

which is virtually defunct. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 v/ww .nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, the entity 

basically evolved from the corporate entity at 

the beginning of the business' creation. And 

it moved into an entity that he himself was 

not involved in, but you continued on with 

your representation to the corporate entity 

even though Mr. Diamond was no longer 

involved. 

MR. WINTON: I do represent the 

corporate entity. Mr. Diamond was involved 

with the corporation as a minority shareholder 

and still is . 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, but your 

primary allegiance as counsel is to the 

corporation and not to Mr. Diamond? 

MR. WINTON: Correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And so your 

representation today is for the corporation. 

Diamond Air Charter? 

MR. WINTON: Correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that Diamond 

Air Charter as I understand it, is or is not 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

involved in this arbitration then that's 

scheduled for next week? 

MR. WINTON: Yes, they are 

involved. It's the shareholders of the 

corporate entity which include Mr. Diamond 

himself and the other investors. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And because of 

your prior representation and contact of Mr. 

Diamond, you, yourself cannot represent your 

client. Diamond Air Charter, in that 

arbitration or in that litigation? 

MR. WINTON: Correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And in 

terms of the arbitration itself from what 

you've been telling me, this is the first step 

of perhaps a very long litigation process 

between those two parties? 

MR. WINTON: Correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: In this 

arbitration are you aware, and you may not be, 

are you aware of where it could potentially 

lead? For example, is it going to potentially 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W. 

WASHINGTON. DC. 20005-3701 wwv/.nealrgross com 
2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

end up in the state courts or potentially end 

up in the federal courts if the arbitration 

does not completely resolve the dispute 

between the parties? 

MR. WINTON: I can't speak to 

that. I really don't know myself. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: How is it, in 

your opinion, then that postponing litigation 

in this particular case could be helpful? And 

the reason I ask that is because it's possible 

that arbitration is just the first of many 

litigation steps for the parties in a 

different forum. 

And it is not uncommon as you know 

for cases that are being litigated to take 

four to ten years to resolve depending on how 

many appeals are lodged and where. 

So what advantage is there in your 

opinion to asking for any further continuance 

of this matter? 

MR. WINTON: Well, I think the 

advantage would be that, you know. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross com 
11 

s 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

77 

preservation of resources on behalf of the 

government certainly and behalf of the public 

transportation Office of Hearings. 

On the issues of judicial economy, 

realistically l don't see the litigation 

concerning the shareholders going on for much 

longer. There are no asset s in the 

corporation. It is defunct. It's not 

operating as an air charter. In fact, they 

don't have a certificate anymore. 

So the interest that the FAA has 

in this matter that we're talking about right 

now are a little to none, because even if they 

take the default judgment I think we' re 

talking about $1,100 here. 

The money is not there to be paid 

and there's no interest in the FAA having a 

violation on the record of a company that no 

longer holds a certificate. So it would be a 

futile attempt to really resolve nothing. if 

the government were willing to stay this 

proceeding, and I wouldn't raise any defense 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross com 
1 9 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

of collaterals, I mean not even collateral 

estoppel, but laches', I think we'd be able to 

resolve the arbitration and then come back to 

this and dismiss it eventually by agreement of 

the parties. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 

Berman, let's turn back to you. What 

advantage, if any, in your opinion, is there 

to any further postponement of the litigation 

in this case? 

MR. BERMAN: Well, we've already 

indicated that we'd be willing to withdraw the 

complaint if it's evidenced that Diamond Air 

has dissolved as a corporation. 

And I was .under the impression 

that this arbitration, to get that result this 

arbitration would be needed. But what I'm 

hearing from Mr. Winton, from your exchange 

with Mr. Winton, I'm not clear as to whether 

that issue will resolved as a result of this 

arbitration. In other words, the dissolution 

of the corporation. So back to your question. 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.CQm 
13 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

I would suggest that maybe we'd proceed to 

hearing violations. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let me ask 

you this, Mr. Berman. Have you had a chance 

to talk to Mr. Winton recently, prior to this 

new litigation scheduling conference about the 

status of the case, or was the last 

conversation the two of you had in October of 

2011? 

MR. BERMAN: We exchanged a couple 

of emails recently where I asked him what's 

going on with the arbitration an d he said it's 

going to be held on, you know, he had told me 

previously it would be postponed and then he 

told me it would be January 17th. And also we 

had some email exchange where he said that it 

would take some time afterwards to render a 

decision after the arbitration. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Winton, 

I' m going to turn back to you. Why do you 

have any confidence at this point that the 

arbitration will result in some type of 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE , N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgro3S.com 
14 

9 

10 

1 1 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

compelling resolution of the corporate status 

of your client? 

MR. WINTON: Well, I've been told 

by both sides, both Mr. Diamond who calls me 

to give me a status report and Diamond Air 

Charter, since they are all shareholders, that 

because there's no money assets or intended 

business purpose of Diamond Air Charter, just 

spending money on litigation through attorneys 

representing both is going to be a waste of 

everybody's time and resource. 

So there is no interest in 

continuing a business relationship between the 

stockholders, and because they dissolved the 

assets and gave away the certificate back to 

the FAA, surrendered it for cancellation, 

there is no likelihood that they will ever 

continue under that name. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have a 

copy of the surrendering of the certificate or 

som.eone who can assert by affidavit or 

declaration that that has occurred and when it 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross .com 
15 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

. 8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

occurred and to whom that certificate was 

surrendered? 

MR. WINTON: Mr. Berman already 

has that. It was done without my knowledge. 

They surrendered it to the FAA directly and 

Mr. Berman' s well aware of that . He was 

involved in-that I understand, I believe. Is 

that right? 

MR. BERMAN: Well, I wasn't 

involved in it but I was made aware that they 

surrendered their certificate to the office. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Berman, 

turning back to you, do you know when that 

occurred? 

MR. BERMAN: I don' t have the 

exact date. It was a while ago. 

MR. WINTON: Over a year ago, I 

believe. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Winton, I'll 

get back to you. 

Mr. Berman, when you say a while 

ago, can you tell me if that was before 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

October 13, 2011, or after? 

MR. BERMAN: I would say it was 

before. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And do you have a 

copy of that voluntary relinquishment of the 

certificate and the attending paperwork in 

your file for this case? 

MR. BERMAN: do have 

documentation that they've, I don't know if I 

have the actual surrender letter but I do have 

documentation that they voluntarily 

surrendered their certificate. 

In fact, that was a factor in our 

posit ion that we'd be wi11ing to, you know, 

we'd throw out the complaint if there's proof 

of dissolution of the corporation. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And remind me 

again exactly what proof you're looking for. 

MR. BERMAN: Well, some kind of 

certificate from the state. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: So essentially 

you're saying that the company's voluntary 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgrQSS.com 
17 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

S 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

relinquishment of the business to the FAA is 

insufficient? That you want something 

confirming that the business is completely 

dissolved from the state itself? 

MR. BERMAN: That's correct. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what kind of 

paperwork do you generally get from the state 

that you need to have in this case that you 

don't have? 

MR. BERMAN: Some kind of 

certificate, some kind of official documents 

from the state stating that they're dissolved. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say 

some kind of certificate, do you know the name 

of it or are just guessing that that's what 

the state would offer to you? 

MR. BERMAN: I don't know the 

exact name. I believe it's called a 

certificate of dissolution. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And in 

your experience, how does the business go 

about doing that? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgfoss.com 
9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

MR. BERMAN: I don't know how they 

do this. You know, we don't get involved with 

that. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr . 

Winton^ I'm going to turn back to you. You've 

indicated that the company and the 

shareholders of the company have no intention 

of proceeding as a business or holding 

themselves out as a business making money or 

losing money as a business. 

Is there some reason that you know 

of that that request to the state corporate 

entity has not occurred? 

MR. WINTON: Yes, I was told that 

if they dissolved the corporation with the 

State of New York they would no longer have 

standing as a plaintiff in the arbitration 

because it would, yes, that's the problem. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And how long in 

your opinion is the arbitration going to last, 

if you know? 

MR. WINTON: I don't know, but in 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W. 

WASHINGTON. DC. 20005-3701 www nealrgross com 
19 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

Other arbitration hearings that I've been 

involved with it could be a one- to three-day 

arbitration and then the arbitrator can take 

up to 90 days to render a written decision, 

from my experience. But I have no idea in 

this case what will happen. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you know in 

any way what the issues are in the 

arbitration? 

MR. WINTON: I believe they 

involve almost like a shareholder derivative 

action, but again I haven't seen the complaint 

so I don't know. And that's the extent of my 

knowledge. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have any 

idea how much money is in contest in this 

arbitration? 

MR. WINTON: I don' t, but I do 

know that the corporation has no assets so, 

you know, if, I just don't know. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you 

know, an d I'm just asking, I know you may not 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W 

WASHINGTON. DC 20005-3701 www.nealrgioss.com 
20 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

know any of this but I'm going to ask anyway. 

Do you know whether this 

arbitration involved piercing the corporate 

veil to try and seek individual reimbursement, 

and if so how much money might be involved? 

MR. WINTON: No, it's more in line 

of like I mentioned, of a shareholder 

derivative action where some of the 

shareholders are alleging that another one 

acted maybe outside the fiduciary duty and 

caused damage to the corporation and devalued 

it, but again nothing specific because I 

haven't seen the complaint. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And again, 

I'm going to ask this question. Do you know 

how much money either your former client, Mr. 

Diamond, is seeking as a party or how much 

money or damages or redress your current 

client, Diamond Air Charter, is seeking in 

this particular arbitration? 

MR. WINTON: No, I don't. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: It' s my 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 vvww.nealfgross.com 
21 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

understanding, Mr. Winton, that your preferred 

solution to this at this point then, would be 

a continuance of approximately 90 days from 

the 17th, essentially to see if this 

arbitration would resolve the issues and 

disputes between the parties and allow your 

client to submit whatever necessary paperwork 

it needs to submit to finalize dissolution at 

the state level. 

MR. WINTON: I would prefer, 

Judge, primarily to stay the proceedings by 

agreement of the parties. However, you know, 

if that's not acceptable then yes, the 90 days 

at a minimum I would certainly be willing and 

appreciate as"a consideration. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm not sure, and 

it may be because this jurisdiction is newer 

to me. I'm not sure that a stay is possible 

but I'm happy to turn to Mr. Berman and ask. 

Mr. Berman, do you know of any 

regulation in the CFRs or otherwise that would 

allow you to stay a case at this level? 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE , N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www. nea I rg ross. com 
22 

1 MR. BERMAN: I'm not aware. I 

2 would agree to a 90-day postponement. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What I will do is 

4 this. I'm happy to postpone this fourth 

5 litigation schedule and conference to a date 

6 and time specific where we have another 

7 conference call. 

8 In terms of the stay, Mr. Winton, 

9 I'm not familiar, you know, I've utilized 

10 stays of proceedings when I sat on the state 

11 trial court bench so I'm familiar with stays 

12 in that way. 

13 I don' t know that there are in 

14 this code of federal regulations, any kind of 

15 language that would allow this Administrative 

16 Court to stay a proceeding. If you know of 

17 something, please educate me now. 

18 MR. WINTON: Not off the top of my 

19 head, I don't. 

2 0 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, why don't 

21 we take a look at our calendars and see if we 

22 can find a n agreeable time to come back and 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn 
23 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

find out what the status was of the 

arbitration and then what it will be in about 

90 days. I'm going to look at my calendar 

first. 

Okay, we're talking about the 

first week or so of May. Mr. Winton, starting 

with you and knowing your client as you do and 

being the most familiar to a limited degree 

about the arbitration that's going to take 

place next week, should we be looking at the 

first full week of May or the second full week 

of May? 

MR. WINTON: I would prefer to 

push it back as much as possible, so the 

second week in May would be beneficial. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: That would be May 

14, 2012, or May 15, 2012. Do you have any 

blackout times on either of those days? 

MR. WINTON: No, the 15th is fine. 

actually. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, 

looking a t your calendar, specificall y a t May 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISUVND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
24 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

14, 2012 and May 15, 2012, do you have any 

blackout times on either of those days? 

MR. BERMAN: My schedule is open 

for those days . 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Winton has 

expressed a preference for May 15, 2 012. 

Folks, how about if we just set this for 10:00 

a.m. Eastern Standard Time again on the ides 

of May 2012, which would be May 15, 2012. 

Mr. Winton, is that acceptable to 

you? 

MR. WINTON: That is acceptable. 

Judge. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Berman? 

MR. BERMAN: Yes, 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what I' d 

like, Mr. Winton, is for you to contact Mr. 

Berman prior to the time and give him a 

complete update of what you know about the 

arbitration to see if there's a possibility of 

resolving the matter before you come before 

me . 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
25 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

If, in fact, you do have papers 

that you can submit so that I can close out 

this case I'm happy to do that and then cancel 

the conference. 

If I don't get those kinds of 

papers then I'll be calling my staff, of 

course they' 11 be calling both of you and 

we'll reconvene on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 

10:00 a.m. Eastern Time for further 

conversations about how to handle this case. 

With that on behalf of the FAA, 

Mr. Berman, is there anything you would like 

to add or discuss on behalf of your client? 

MR. BERMAN: No. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Winton, 

on behalf of Diamond Charter? 

MR. WINTON: Nothing, Judge, thank 

you. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you 

both very much for your presence today. It 

appears our business is complete. We can go 

off the record and I wish you a good day. 

{202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W. 

WASHINGTON. DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
26 

MR. WINTON: Thanks, you too. 

Bye-bye. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: Bye-bye. 

(Whereupon, the foregoing matter 

went off the record at 10:23 a.m.) 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

2 2 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE , N.W 

WASHINGTON. O.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
able! 2:2 

nbove-cntitled 1:13 

acceptable 21 ;L^ 

24:10.12 

accommodate 4:14 

acted 20:10 

action 19:12 20:8 

actual 16:10 

add 25:13 

address 5:1 2 

.Administration 

2:1S 

Administrative 

1:22 3:20 7:11 

22:15 

advantage 10:18 

10:22 12:8 

.AE.A-7 2:15 

alTidavit 14:21 

aj^ent 7:9 

a"o 15:10,17,22 

aiiree22:2 

agreeable 22:22 

agreement 4:4 12:4 

21:12 

air 1:5 3:4.11 5:19 

6:1.5,9.14 7:14,20 

8:19.22 9:10 11:9 

12:13 14:5,8 

20:19 

allegiance 8:14 

alleging 20:9 

allow 21:6.22 22:15 

AMERICA 1:1 

anymore 1 t :10 

anyway 20:1 

appeals ]0.)7 

APPEARAMCES 

2:1 

appears25:21 

appreciate21:15 

approximately 

3:21 21:3 

arbitration 5:1.2 

5:11,14.196:7.22 

9:1,11.14.20 10:2 

10:1! 12:3.16.17 

12:21 13:12.18,22 

18:17.20 19:1,3.9 

19:17 20:3,20 

21:5 23:2.9 24:20 

arbitrator 19:3 

asked 13:11 

a.sking 10:19 19:22 

assert I4-''1 

assets 1 1-7 14-7 15 

19; ] 9 

attempt 11:20 

attending 16:6 

attorney 2:14 3:10 

3:12 7:9 

attorneys 14:9 

.August 4:2 

Aviation 2:4,18,19 

aware9:20.2l 15:0 

15:1022:1 

a.m 1:16 3:2 24:8 

25:9 26:5 

B 

back 12:3.7.22 

13:20 14:15 15:13 

15:20 18:5 22:22 

23:14 

basically 8:2 

beginning 8:3 

behalf2:2.!l 11:1 

11:2 25:11.13.16 

believe 5:21 15:7 

15:18 17:18 19:10 

bench 22:11 

beneficial 23:15 

Berman2:13 3:10 

4:19.21 12:7,11 

13:4,10 15:3.9.12 

15:15,21 16:2.8 

16:19 17:5.10.17 

18:1 21:19,20 

22:1 23:21 24:3 

24:14.15,1825:12 

25:14 

Bernian's 15:6 

blackout 23:18 

24:2 

bought 6:4 

brought 7:14 

business 6:20 7:5 

8:3 14:8,13 17:1,3 

17:21 18:8,9-10 

25:21 

Bye-bye 26:2,3 

C 

calendar 23:3,22 

calendars 22:21 

call 22:7 

called 17:18 

calling 25:6,7 

calls 14:4 

cancel 25:3 

cancellation 14:16 

case3:19,22 4:22 

5:157:10 10:9 

12:10 13:7 16:7 

17:8 19:6 21:22 

25:3.10 

cases 10:15 

caused 20:1 1 

certainly 11:2 

21:14' 

certificate 11:10,19 

14:15.20 15:1,11 

16:6,12,20 17:11 

17:14,19 

CFRs2i:2i 

chance 13:4 

charter 1:5 3:4,11 

5:19 6:2,5,9.14 . 

7:15,20 8:19,22 

9:10 11:9 14:6,8 

20:19 25:16 

clear 12:19 

clearly 7:3 

client 6:3,17 9:10 

14:2 20:16.19 

21:723:725:13 

close 25:2 

code 22:14 

collateral 12:1 

collaterals 12:1 

come 12:3 22:22 

24:21 

company 4:17 6:12 

11:18 iS:6.7 

company's 16:22 

compelling 14:1 

Complainant 2:1 1 

complaint 12:13 

16:15 19:1220:13 

complete 24:19 

25:21 

completely 10:3 

17:3 

concerning 11:6 

conference3:8 4:2 

4:3,9,13,22 13:6 

22:5,7 25:4 

conlldence 13:21 

confirming 17:3 

conflict 6:10 

conflicted 7:18 

consideration 

21:15 

contact 9:8 24:17 

contest 19:16 

continuance4:8 

10:19 21:3 

continue4:12 

14:18 

continued 8:5 

continuing 14:13 

convened 3:7 

conversation 13:8 

conversations 

25:10 

copy 14:20 16:5 

corporate 6:18 

7:19,21 8:2,6,10 

9:5 14:1 18:12 

20:3 

corporation 6:19 

7:15,188:11,15 

8:18 11:8 12:14 

12:22 16:16 18:15 

19:1920:11 

correct5:9 7:7 8:16 

8:20 9:12,18 17:5 

Pag e 27 

counsel 2:15 3:13 

8:14 

couple 13:10 

course 25:7 

court2:5 5:16 7:1 i 

22:11,16 

courts 10:1,2 

CPI0EA0004 1:4 

creation '&:}< 

current 20:18 

D 

damage 20:11 

damages 20:18 

date4:13 15:16 

22:5 

day 25:22 

days 19:4 21:3.13 

23:3,18 24:2,4 

decision 5:6 13:18 

19:4 

declaration 14:22 

default 11:14 

defense 11:22 

defunct 6:13 7:22 

11:8 

degree 23:8 

DEPARTMENT 

1:1 

depending 10:16 

derivative 19:11 

20:8 

devalued 20:11 

Diamond 1:5 3:4 

3:11 5:196:1.2.5 

6:9,9,11 7:1,4,10 

7:14,16.208:7,10 

8:15,19,21 9:5.9 

9:10 12:13 14:4,5 

14:8 20:17,19 

25:16 

different 10:13 

directly 15:5 

discuss 25:13 

dismiss 12:4 

dispute 10:3 

disputes 21:6 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. 

202-234-443 3 

I n c . 
dissolution 4:16 

12:21 16:16 17:19 

21:8 

dissolve 6:18 

dissoUed 12:14 

14:14 17:4,12 

18:15 

Dockt't 1:4 3:5 

documentation 

16:9,11 

documents 17:1 1 

doing 6:19 17:22 

duty 20:10 

dynamic 6:15 

Eastern 2:17 24:8 

25:9 

economy 1 1:4 

educate 22:17 

eriectively6:20 

either 20:'l 6 23:18 

24:2 

email 13:16 

emails 13:11 

entity 6:18 7:21 8:1 

8:2,4.6,10 9:5 

18:13 

ESQ 2:4,13 

essentially 16:21 

21:4 

estoppel 12:2 

eventually 12:4 

everybody's 14:1 1 

evidenced 12:13 

evolved 8:2 

exact 15:16 17:18 

exactly 16:18 

example 9:22 

exchange 12:18 

13:16 

exchanged 13:10 

experience 17:21 

19:5 

Experts 2:4 

expressed 24:6 

extent 19:13 

FAA 1:4 3:9 11:11 

11:17 14:16 15:5 

17:1 25:11 

EAA-2010-0620 

1:6 3:5 

fact 4:19 11:9 

16:1325:1 

factor 16:13 

familiar 22:9,11 

23:8 

FDMS 1:5 

federal 2:18 10:2 

22:14 

fiduciary 20:10 

file 16:7 

finalize 21:8 

find 22:22 23:1 

fine 23:19 

first4:l,18 5:18 

9:15 10:11 23:4,6 

23:11 

Folks 24:7 

following 5:5 

foregoing 26:4 

former 20:16 

forum 10:13 

four 10:16 

fourth 22:4 

full 23:11.11 

further 10:19 12:9 

25:9 

futile 11:20 

generally 17:7 

give 14:5 24:18 

go6:6 7:17 17:21 

25:21 

going3:15.17.18 

4:18 9:22 11:6 

13:12.13.20 14:10 

18:5,20 20:1,15 

23:3.9 

good 3:13,14 25:22 

government 1 1:2 

11:21 

granted 4:8 

Gregory 2:4 3:12 

ouessins 17:15 

H 

handle 25:10 

happen 19:6 

happened 7:13 

happy 21:19 22:4 

25:3 

head 22:19 

hearing 1:14 12:18 

13:2 

hearings 1:2 3:21 

11:3 19:1 

held 13:13 

helpful 10:9 

history 3:16 

holding 18:8 

holds 11:19 

HONORABLE 

1:21 

I 

idea 19:5,16 

ides 24:8 

impact 5:15 

impression 12:15 

include 9:5 

indicated 12:12 

18:6 

individual 7:5 20:4 

individually 7:16 

informed 5:2 

insufficient 17:2 

Intended 14:7 

intention 18:7 

interest 4:14 11:11 

11:17 14:12 

interesting5:17 

investors 6:4 7:13 

9:6 

involve 19:11 

involved 8:5.8,10 

9:1,4 15:7,10 18:2 

19:2 20:3,5 

issue 12:20 

issues 11:4 19:8 

21:5 

Jamaica 2:21 

January 1:8 3:6 5:} 

13:15" 

John 6:2.9,1 1,22 

7:4,16 

jointly 4:7 

Judge 1:22 3:3.15 

5:10,187:2.8 8:1 

8:13.17,21 9:7.13 

9:19 10:7 J 2:6 

13:3,19 14:19 

15:12,19 16:4,17 

16:21 17:6.13,20 

18:4,19 19:7.15 

19:21 20:14.22 

21:11,16 22:3,20 

23:16,21 24:5,13 

24:14,1625:15,17 

25:19 26:3 

judgment 11:14 

judicial 1 1:4 

July 3:22 

June3:21 

jurisdiction 21:17 

J.E 1:21 

K 

kept 6:5 

kind 16:19 17:6.10 

17:11,1422:14 

kinds 25:5 

know 10:6.14,22 

13:13 15:13 16:9 

16:14 17:14.17 

18:1,2.11.21.22 

19:7,13,19.20,20 

19:22.22 20:1,2 

20:15 21:12.20 

22:9,13,1624:19 

knowing23:7 

knowledge 15:4 

19:14 

laches 12:2 

Pag e 2 

language 22:15 

Law 1:22 2:4 

lawsuit 6:8 

lead 9:22 

letter 16:10 

let's 12:7 

level 21:9,22 

likelihood 14:17 

limited 23:8 

line 20:6 

litigated 10:15 

litigating 5:15 

litigation 3:8 4; 1,3 

4:9,129:11.16 

10:8,12 11:5 12:9 

13:6 14:9 22:5 

Iittle3:16 11:13 

LLC 2:4 

lodged 10:17 

long9:16 18:19 

longer6:l 1,13,21 

7:168:7 11:7,19 

18:16 

longtime 6:3 

look 22:21 23:3 

looking 16:18 

23:10,22 

looks 5:7 

losing 18:10 

M 

making 18:9 

matter 1:4.13 3:4 

5:22 6:15 10:20 

11:1224:21 26:4 

MD2:6 

mean 12:1 

member 7:20 

mentioned 20:7 

met 6:3 

mine 6:3 

minimum 21:14 

minority 8:1 1 

money I 1:16 14:7.9 

18:9.10 19:16 

20:5,16.18 

morning3:13.14 

Nea l R, Gros s & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
moved "^-A 

N 

iiaine6:5 14:IS 

17:14.18 

namesake 6:2 

necessary 21:7 

need 5:7*1 7:8 

needed 5:6 12:17 

needs 21:8 

new 13:6 18:16 

newer 21:1 7 

notice 1:16 

number 3:5 

NY 2:21 

O 

occur 5:14 

occurred 4:20 6:1 

14:22 15:1.14 

18:13 

occurring 6:16 

October 4:10,11 

13:8 16:1 

offer 17:16 

office 1:2 2:14 3:20 

11:3 15:11 

official 17:11 

OkavS:l,13 9:13 

I7:"20 18:4 19:21 

20:14 22:20 23:5 

25:19 

once 7:13.17 

one-m(»nth4:7 

open 24:3 

operates 6:13 

operating 1 1:9 

opinion 5:12,14 

10:8.19 12:8 

18:20 

outside 20:10 

owner 7:5 

paid 11:16 

papers 25:1,6 

paperwork 16:6 

17:721:7 

particular 10:9 

20:20 

parties 3:6 4:5,7,14 

9:17 10:4,12 12:5 

21:6,12 

party 20:17 

personally 7:19 

piercing 20:3 

place 23:10 

plaintiff 5:22 6:22 

18:17 

Plaza 2:19 

please 22:1 7 

point7:21 13:21 

21:2 

position 16:14 

possibility 24:20 

possible 10:10 

21:1823:14 

postpone 22:4 

postponed 5:3,1 1 

5:21 13:14 

postponement 12:9 

22:2 

postponing 10:8 

potential4 16 

potentially 9:21.22 

10:1 

prefer21:1023:13 

preference 24:6 

preferred 21:1 

presence 25:20 

preservation 11:1 

previously 13:14 

primarily 21:1 I 

primary 8:14 

prior 4:6 9:8 13:5 

24:18 

problem 18:18 

proceed 13:1 

proceeding 1 1:22 

18:8 22:16 

proceedings 21:11 

22:10 

process 9:16 

proof 16:15,18 

public 11:2 

purpose 14:8 

pursuant 1:14 

push 23:14 

P-R-0-C-E-E-D-... 

3:1 

question 12:22 

20:15 

R 

raise 11:22 

reached 4:15 

realistically 11:5 

really 10:6*11:20 

reason 10:10 18:11 

reassigned 3:22 

reconvene 25:8 

record 3:4,10.16 

11:1825:22 26:5 

redress 20: IS 

Region 2:17 

Regional2:14 

regulation 21:21 

regulations 22:14 

reimbursement 

20:4 

relationship 7:9 

14:13 

relinquishment 

16:5 17:1 

remind 16:17 

render 13:17 19:4 

report 14:5 

represent 6:1 1,12 

7:21 8:9 9:9 

representation 8:6 

8:189:8 

represented 3:9.12 

7:4,15 

representing 5: IS 

6:14 7:16,19 

14:10 

request 4:12.14 

5:21 18:12 

requested 4:7 

Research 2:5 

resolution 14:1 

resolve 5:8 10:3.16 

11:20 12:3 21:5 

resolved4:21 12:20 

resolving 24:21 

resource 14! 1 

resources 11:1 

respondent 2:2 

3:11 

result 12:16,20 

13:22 

right 11:12 15:8 

Rockville 2:6 

Room 2:20 

S 

sat 22:10 

saying 16:22 

schedule22:5 24:3 

scheduled 9:2 

schcduling3:8 4:1 

4:3,9.12 13:6 

second4:2,S23:l 1 

23:15 

see4:15 11:521:4 

22:21 24:20 

seek 20:4 

seeking 20:17.19 

seen 19:1220:13 

September 4:4,6 

service 6:14 

set4:3.9 24:7 

settlement 4:15 

shareholders:! 1 

19:1! 20:7 

shareholders 9:4 

11:6 14:6 18:7 

20:9 

shares6:4 7:14 

sides 14:4 

solution 21:2 

speak 5:20 10:5 

specific 20:12 22:6 

specifically 23:22 

spending 14:9 

staff25:6 

Standard 24:8 

standing 6:21 

Pag e 2 9 

18:17 

starting 23:6 

state 10:1 16:20 

17:4,7,12.16 

!8:12.1621:9 

22:10 

STATES 1:1 

stating 17:12 

status 13:7 14:1.5 

23:1 

stay 11:21 21:11.18 

21:22 22:8,16 

stays 22:10,1! 

step 9:15 

steps 10:12 

stock6:4 7:14 

stockholders 6:8 

14:14 

subniit21:7,8 25:2 

suggest 13:1 

Suite 2:5 

SULLIVAN 1:21 

3:3,15 5:10 7:2,8 

8:1,13.17,21 9:7 

9:13,19 10:7 12:6 

13:3,19 14:19 

15:12,19 16:4.17 

16:21 17:6,13,20 

18:4,19 19:7,15 

19:21 20:14,22 

21:1622:3.20 

23:16,2! 24:5.14 

24:1625:15.19 

26:3 

sure21:16,18 

surrender 16:10 

surrendered 14:16 

15:2,5,11 16:12 

surrendering 14:20 

take 10:15 11:14 

13:17 19:3 22:21 

23:9 

talk 13:5 

talking 11:12,15 

23:5 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
Pag

e 3 0 

teleconference 1:14 

telephone 3:7 

telI3:17 15:22 

telling 9:15 

ten 10:16 

terms 9:14 22:8 

thank 12:6 2S:17 

25:19 

Thanks 26:1 

things 3:17 

think 10:21 I 1:14 

12:2 

third 3:7 

three-day 19:2 

throw 16:15 

Thursday 1:8 3:6 

time4:13 5:6.7 

13:17 14:11 22:6 

22:22 24:8.18 

25:9 

times 23:18 24:2 

today 3:5 7:1 1 8:18 

25:20 

today's 4:13 

told5:206:17 

13:13.15 14:3 

18:14 

top 22:18 

transportation 1:1 

11:3 

trial 22:1! 

try 20:4 

Tuesday 25:8 

turn4:18 12:7 

13:20 18:521:19 

turning 15:13 

two 9:17 13:8 

type 13:22 

uncommon 10:14 

understand 3; 19 

7:3 8:22 15:7 

understanding 

21:1 

UNITED 1:1 

update 24:19 

utilized 22:9 

veil 20:4 

violation 11:18 

violations 13:2 

virtually 7:22 

voluntarily 16:11 

voluntary 16:5.22 \V 

want 17:2 

wasn't 15:9 

waste 14:10 

way 19:8 22:12 

week5:4 9:2 23:6 

23:10,11,11,15 

went 26:5 

we'll 25:8 

we're3:3 11:12,14 

23:5 

we've 12:11 

willing 11:21 12:12 

16:14 21:14 

Winton 2:4 3:12.14 

4:22 5:2,9,13.17 

7:4,7,8,12 8:9,16 

8:20 9:3.12,18 

10:5,21 12:18,19 

13:5.19 14:3 15:3 

15:17,19 18:5,14 

18:22 19:10.18 

20:6,21 21:1.10 

22:8,18 23:6.13 

23:1924:5,10,12 

24:1725:15.17 

26:1 

wish 25:22 

withdraw 12:12 

words 12:21 

wouldn't 11 22 

written 19:4 

Y 

year 15:17 

years 10:16 

York 18:16 

z 

Zachary 2:13 3 10 

$ 

$1,100 11:15 

1 

12:19 

I0th4:2 

10:00 1:1624:7 

25:9 

10:23 26:5 

114342:21 12 1:8 

12th 3:6 

134:10,11 16:1 

14 3:22 23:17 24:1 

1523:1724:1,6,9 

25:8 

15th 23:19 

I7th5:3 13:15 21:4 

20103:21 

20114:1,2.4.6.10 

4:11 13:9 16:1 

2012 1:8 3:6 23:17 

23:17 24:1,1,6,9,9 

25:8 

20850 2:6 

294-8550 2:6 

3 

3rd 3:21 

3012:6 

4 

450 2:5 

5 

553-3258 2:22 

561 2:20 

7 

7 4:4,6 

718 2:22 

9 

9:59 3:2 

9019:421:3,13 

23:3 

90-dav22:2 

Neal R. Gross & Co. 

202-234-443 3 

I nc . 
31 

CERT " I F I GAT E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of; Diamond Air Charter 

Before: uS DOT 

Date: 01-12-12 

Place: Washington, DC 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE. NW. 

(202) 234 J433 WASHINGTON, 0 C 20005-3701 www nealrgross com