PUBLIC HEARING 2/19/2013

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1 BEFORE THE U. S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

 (EPA)

2

3

IN RE: VEOLIA ES TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS AIR PERMIT,

4

5

6

7

 EPA PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF

8 VEOLIA ES TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS AIR PERMIT

 FEBRUARY 19, 2013

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10

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1 INDEX

2 PAGE

3 OPENING REMARKS

 By Hearing Officer Pope 5

4

5 OVERVIEW OF DRAFT PERMIT

 By Ms. Genevieve Damico 8

6

7 COMMENTS BY THE PUBLIC

 Ms. Kathleen Logan Smith 14

8 Ms. Kathy Andria 15

 Ms. Kristhy St. Hilaire 18

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1 BEFORE THE U. S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

 (EPA)

2

3

4

5 IN RE: VEOLIA ES TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS AIR PERMIT,

6

7

8 A Public Hearing was held in the aforementioned

matter on the 19th day of February, 2013, between

9 the hours of 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon and 6:51

o'clock in the evening, at the Southern Illinois

10 University Edwardsville, East St. Louis Higher

Education Campus, Building B, Room 2083, in East St.

11 Louis, Illinois, before Pamela K. Needham, CCR, CSR

(MO, IL) and Notary Public, in a certain matter now

12 pending before the BEFORE THE U. S. ENVIRONMENTAL

PROTECTION AGENCY (IEPA) In the Matter of VEOLIA ES

13 TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS AIR PERMIT.

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25
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1 APPEARANCES :

2

 THE HEARING OFFICER:

3

 Ms. Janet Pope

4 Community Involvement Coordinator

 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

5

6

 FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY:

7

 Ms. Genevieve Damico

8 Environmental Protection Agency Region 5

 77 West Jackson Boulevard (AR-18J)

9 Chicago, IL 60604

 (312) 353-4761

10 damico.genevieve@epa.gov

11

12 ALSO PRESENT FROM THE EPA:

13

14 David Ogulei

 Andrea Morgan

15 Environmental Engineers

16 Francisco Arcaute

 Media Relations Specialist

17

18

19 The Court Reporter:

20 Pamela K. Needham, IL CSR, MO CCR

Midwest Litigation Services

21 711 North 11th Street

St. Louis, MO 63101

22 314-644-2191

23

24

25
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1 (On the record at 3:12 p.m.)

2 P R O C E E D I N G S

3 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Good afternoon,

4 everybody. My name is Janet Pope, and I'm a

5 Community Involvement Coordinator with the U.S.

6 Environmental Protection Agency. I will be serving

7 as the Hearing Officer for today's hearing. A court

8 reporter is here, she's making a transcript -- a

9 transcript of everything that is said here today,

10 and that transcript will become part of the official

11 Agency Administrative record on this facility.

12 We have four people here from the EPA

13 today. We have Genevieve Damico, who is the Chief

14 of the Air Permits section of the EPA. We have

15 David Ogulei and Andrea Morgan, who are

16 environmental site engineers with the EPA, they're

17 in the back. We also have Francisco Arcaute, who is

18 a media relations specialist at the EPA. Everybody

19 is from Chicago, from the Illinois office of the

20 EPA.

21 We are here today to share

22 information and to listen to your questions and

23 comments regarding the EPA's draft operating permit

24 that EPA is proposing to issue to Veolia ES

25 Technical Solutions, LLC, located in Sauget,
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1 Illinois. Today's hearing will have two parts. In

2 the first part, Genevieve Damico will provide an

3 overview of the draft permit. Second, we'll take

4 public comments for the record. However, we will

5 not respond to questions or comments today.

6 All persons wishing to speak during

7 this hearing should let us know by filling out a

8 blue index card with your name. When your name is

9 called, please state your name, then spell your last

10 name for the court reporter. If you have written

11 comments but do not wish to speak, please give them

12 to me before you leave. So that everyone who wishes

13 to comment has a chance to do so, please limit your

14 comments to two minutes. At the one and a half

15 minute mark, I will ask you to please conclude. At

16 this time you will have 30 seconds to conclude. If

17 you have not finished at that time, I will ask you

18 to release the floor to the next commenter. After

19 everyone has gotten a chance to comment, and if time

20 is still available, you may return and finish your

21 comments, or you may submit your remaining comments

22 to me on paper.

23 Please remember to repeat your last

24 name and spell it for the court reporter.

25 We will not be holding an informal
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1 question and answer session as part of this hearing.

2 Any testimony received at this hearing, along with

3 any written comments received by the end of the

4 comment period, will be part of the official record

5 for this permit. The EPA has prepared a fact sheet,

6 which is available here today. The fact sheet and

7 other documents in the record for this permitting

8 action provide details about the permit and also

9 explain how you may file written comments. You can

10 find the record for this permitting action at

11 www.regulations.gov, Docket ID

12 EPA-R05-OAR-2012-0649.

13 Before we start, I would like to make

14 an announcement regarding the comment period. The

15 EPA has extended the comment period to April 1st,

16 2013. Therefore, you will now have until April 1st

17 to file your comments, and EPA will add any comments

18 that we receive by midnight on April 1st to the

19 permitting record.

20 So let the record show that it is

21 3:16 p.m. on February 19th, 2013. This hearing is

22 being held at the Distance Learning Lab, Room 2083,

23 in Building B of Southern Illinois University

24 Edwardsville - East St. Louis Higher Education

25 Campus, 601 James R. Thompson Boulevard in East St.
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1 Louis, Illinois. This hearing is on the EPA's

2 proposal of a draft operating permit for the Veolia

3 ES Technical Solutions, LLC, located in Sauget,

4 Illinois.

5 Legal notice of this hearing was

6 published in the East St. Louis Monitor newspaper on

7 January 10th, and in the Belleville News Democrat

8 newspaper on January 11, 2013. Permit documents are

9 publicly available at www.regulations.gov, Docket

10 ID: EPA-R05-OAR-2012-0649, and information about the

11 hearing was placed on EPA's website.

12 Next I will call the names of those

13 who registered to speak today in the order that they

14 registered. When I call your name, please come up

15 to the front of the room, state your name and

16 address, spell your last name, and identify any

17 company or organization that you're representing.

18 But first, Genevieve Damico from EPA will give us an

19 overview of the permit.

20 MS. GENEVIEVE DAMICO: Good afternoon,

21 everybody. My name is Genevieve Damico, I'm the

22 Chief of the Air Permits Section at the Chicago

23 office of EPA. My staff prepared the draft permit

24 that is the subject of today's hearing.

25 Veolia's Sauget, Illinois, facility
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1 is a treatment, storage and disposal facility which

2 accepts waste for disposal through incineration.

3 Veolia receives containers and bulk shipments of

4 hazardous and solid waste; analyzes and transfers

5 the waste to temporary storage facilities; and

6 processes and incinerates it in three combustion

7 units. The waste that Veolia receives is varied,

8 and can contain differing amounts of hazardous

9 material.

10 Veolia operates under a Clean Air Act

11 Title V permit, because it is a major source of

12 hazardous air pollutants emissions, and is subject

13 to one of the National Emissions Standards for

14 Hazardous Air Pollutants. As I will describe in

15 more detail in a few minutes, EPA is proposing to

16 use the significant modification procedures of Title

17 V of the Clean Air Act to modify the Title V

18 operating permit that EPA previously issued to

19 Veolia ES Technical Solutions, LLC.

20 EPA issued a Title V permit to Veolia

21 on September 12th, 2008, and the permit became

22 effective on October 12th, 2008. Prior to issuing

23 the permit, EPA reviewed historical metal feedrate

24 data supplied by Veolia. The term "feedrate"

25 describes the amount of waste that Veolia burns in
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1 its combustion units. EPA concluded that the data

2 provided by Veolia was not reliable for determining

3 feedrate limits (also called operating parameters

4 limits, or OPLs) for heavy metals such as mercury,

5 lead, cadmium, arsenic, chromium and beryllium.

6 Feedrate limits set the maximum amount of specific

7 types of waste - here, heavy metals - that Veolia

8 can feed into its incinerators per hour.

9 Because EPA found the data

10 unreliable, EPA issued Veolia's permit without

11 including feedrate limits for mercury, lead,

12 cadmium, arsenic, chromium or beryllium. However,

13 as required by the federal regulations governing

14 hazardous waste combustors, EPA included in the

15 permit a compliance schedule that required Veolia to

16 test all three combustors to develop feedrate limits

17 for emissions of mercury, low-volatile metals (that

18 is arsenic, chromium and beryllium) and

19 semi-volatile metals (that is lead and cadmium).

20 The permit required that Veolia

21 submit its test results and proposed feedrate limits

22 to EPA by September 26th, 2008. If EPA found the

23 proposed limits acceptable, EPA would propose to

24 reopen the permit to incorporate the limits

25 developed in, from the required performance tests,
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1 and would take public comment on the limits at that

2 time.

3 Veolia conducted comprehensive

4 performance tests in August and September of 2008.

5 On October 10th, 2008, EPA -- or Veolia submitted to

6 EPA the results of these tests, and an application

7 for modification to its Title V permit to

8 incorporate feedrate limits for mercury,

9 semi-volatile metals, and low-volatile metals, as

10 specified in the compliance schedule.

11 However, Veolia withdrew the

12 modification application on December 13th, 2012,

13 after receiving notice that EPA intended to deny the

14 application and to reopen the permit to add feedrate

15 limits that EPA considered to be supported by the

16 available performance test data.

17 EPA is proposing to reopen the Title

18 V Permit for Veolia using EPA's Clean Air Act

19 authority to reopen permits for cause, to

20 incorporate heavy metal limits that EPA considers to

21 be supported by available performance test data.

22 This reopening is necessary to ensure that the

23 permit assures compliance with Title V of the Act

24 and its implementing regulations at 40 C.F.R. Part

25 71, and the National Emissions Standards for
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1 Hazardous Air Pollutants, NESHAP, for Hazardous

2 Waste Combustors, 40 C.F.R. Part 63, Subpart EEE.

3 EPA also is proposing to supplement

4 monitoring requirements to assure compliance with

5 the proposed feedrate limits.

6 Under the proposed monitoring terms,

7 Veolia is required to install and operate a

8 multi-metals Continuous Emissions Monitoring System,

9 or CEMS, as one of -- on one of its incinerators,

10 Unit 3, for at least one year. A multi-metals CEMS

11 tests the air emitted during the incineration

12 process to determine the amount of mercury,

13 semi-volatile metals, and low-volatile metals in the

14 air and reports the results approximately once every

15 fifteen minutes.

16 The test results will help U.S. EPA

17 ensure the feedrate limits in the permit are

18 adequate to protect air quality. After a year of

19 running the CEMS, U.S. EPA believes it will have

20 enough information to determine if the feedrate

21 limits are appropriate, and Veolia will not be

22 required to use the multi-metals CEMS.

23 EPA has also proposed to improve

24 Veolia's feedrate analysis procedures. The

25 additional analysis procedures proposed by EPA would
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1 supplement any other analysis procedures for

2 mercury, semi-volatile metals, and low-volatile

3 metals, as specified in Veolia's Feedstream Analysis

4 Plan, or FAP, and would supersede any less stringent

5 provisions in the FAP.

6 Incorporation of the additional

7 feedstream analysis procedures into the Title V

8 permit would not eliminate Veolia's obligation to

9 maintain an adequate FAP, consistent with federal

10 regulations for hazardous waste combustors.

11 As Ms. Pope noted, we will not answer

12 any questions or respond to any comments today,

13 however, after the close of the comment period we

14 will respond in writing to each written or oral

15 comment filed today, and any comment submitted

16 before the close of the comment period. Our

17 responses will be contained in a Response To

18 Comments document that we will distribute to each

19 person who files comments or requests and receives a

20 copy of the final permit. Please note that only

21 portions of the permit that are being changed

22 because of the proposed action are open for comment

23 during the public comment period.

24 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Again, just

25 restating, if you'd like to make a public comment,
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1 you need to fill out one of these blue cards if you

2 have not done so, you need to fill out one of these

3 cards.

4 First commenter will be Kathleen

5 Logan Smith.

6 MS. KATHLEEN LOGAN SMITH: This is going to

7 be fun for your reporter because I'm mostly going to

8 say whatever these people say. But I'm the Director

9 of Environmental Policy with the Missouri Coalition

10 For the Environment, and I wanted to -- my name is

11 Kathleen Logan Smith, spelled just like it sounds,

12 and I wanted to thank EPA Region 5 for opening this

13 permit and for taking this opportunity to look at

14 these feedrates, because we're dealing with an

15 environmental justice community over here that's

16 bearing more than their share of environmental

17 pollutants, and I think that it's really important

18 that we make sure that we've done everything that we

19 can to make sure the Clean Act promises get

20 delivered to this community.

21 So I'd also suggest that we look at

22 putting CEMS monitors on all of the emissions

23 sources, all of the stats, at least for a time, to,

24 because sometimes the performance, you know, cannot

25 be consistent across three different pieces of
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1 equipment.

2 So that's all I have to say right

3 now, and we'll give more comments in writing. Thank

4 you.

5 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Commenter Number 2,

6 Kathy Andria.

7 MS. KATHY ANDRIA: Good afternoon. My name

8 is Kathy Andria, A-N-D-R-I-A. I am president of

9 American Bottom Conservancy and Conservation Chair

10 of the Kaskaskia Group of the Sierra Club, both of

11 which have members who live and recreate in East St.

12 Louis and surrounding areas that lie downwind of the

13 Veolia hazardous waste incinerate -- incinerator.

14 In 2004, both groups petitioned the

15 EPA administer -- administrator to object to the

16 proposed Title V operating permit for the

17 incinerator, then called Onyx. Our petition was

18 successful. EPA did object, and now has oversight

19 of the Veolia incinerator. In 2003 at the original

20 Title V hearing, we brought the agency's attention

21 to reports of a history of violations and accidents

22 at the plant. We told you that the lakes at Frank

23 Colton State Park lie not far downwind of the

24 incinerator, and that a number of people use the

25 lakes for subsistence fishing. We worried about
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1 mercury emitted from the plant and being deposited

2 in the lakes and by accumulating in the fish. We

3 worried that other heavy metals from the incinerator

4 could fall into area gardens and be consumed by

5 residents or ingested by children playing in the

6 dirt. Area yards had already shown high levels of

7 heavy metals such as lead and cadmium. We have a

8 high rate of cancer here, as well as elevated blood

9 lead levels in area children. We are pleased that

10 the EPA did a risk screening that substantiated

11 claims we had made. There is still subsistence

12 fishing at Frank Colton. Pregnant women and

13 children consume that fish. Due to our economy,

14 there are many more gardens in the area, and while

15 some residents have moved away, there are still

16 children who breathe the air and play in the dirt

17 downwind of this hazardous waste incinerator. And

18 we have just learned that elevated levels of PCB's

19 have been newly discovered in yards in East St.

20 Louis and Sauget.

21 We very much appreciate that you are

22 proposing to require a Continuous Emissions

23 Monitoring System for heavy metals on one of the

24 incinerator units; what a wonderful start. But

25 given the facility's long history of noncompliance,
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1 we worry that the company will simply shift metal

2 bearing waste streams to the other two units, and

3 especially since you are proposing the CEMS for just

4 a year, there are all sorts of ways for the company

5 to game the results. We believe that a hazardous

6 waste incinerator should never have been located in

7 the middle of an urban population, especially with

8 so many vulnerable low income folks. We understand

9 the need for such a facility, but not there. Not

10 here.

11 So unless you decide to close the

12 facility, we ask that you require CEMS on all three

13 units permanently.

14 We also appreciate that last year you

15 conducted an onsite compliance investigation and

16 found significant problems with Veolia's feedstream

17 analysis where a high percentage of Veolia's waste

18 stream profiles were found to be inaccurate. Veolia

19 vastly underestimated the actual metals

20 concentrations in the waste stream and appeared not

21 to have an accurate system of analyzing waste

22 streams at all. We ask that you require analyzing

23 each waste stream with full and accurate reporting.

24 While this hearing appears to be limited to heavy

25 metals, given your findings about Veolia's lack of
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1 compliance and failure to accurately analyze waste

2 streams, we hope that you can also give attention to

3 PCB's and the deadly toxins, dioxins and furans, and

4 given its history and your findings from last year,

5 please continue to do periodic inspections such as

6 the one last year. Either that, or close the

7 facility down. There are too many children, too

8 many families who may be impacted by this facility

9 if it is allowed to operate without monitoring,

10 without limits, without supervision. There are too

11 many children and too many families who already may

12 have been impacted.

13 Thank you for your consideration of

14 my comments, and I may have additional questions or

15 comments at a later time.

16 HEARING OFFICER POPE: I have a card up

17 here, I can't read the name, and I don't know if

18 it's Kathy or --

19 MS. KRISTHY ST. HILAIRE: Kristhy.

20 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Kristhy? What's the

21 last name?

22 MS. KRISTHY ST. HILAIRE: St. Hilaire.

23 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Okay. All right.

24 The next commenter is Kristhy St. Hilaire.

25 MS. KRISTHY ST. HILAIRE: My last name is
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1 St. Hilaire, S-T period, H-I-L-A-I-R-E.

2 Good afternoon. My name is Kristhy

3 St. Hilaire, and I'm student at the

4 Interdisciplinary Environmental Clinic at Washington

5 University School of Law. I'm speaking today on

6 behalf of the American Bottoms Conservancy. The

7 American Bottoms Conservancy is a nonprofit

8 organization that educates the public about threats

9 to the environment. The American Bottoms

10 Conservancy actively works to protect and preserve

11 the air and water quality of the American Bottoms

12 area. The organization has over 100 members, with

13 many living in the Sauget area.

14 First, I would like to thank the EPA

15 for their hard work on the draft permit, and for the

16 opportunity to comment at today's hearing.

17 As EPA noted in the Statement of

18 Basis, the Veolia hazardous waste incineration

19 facility is located in an urban area of more than 2

20 million people. Most of the residents who live

21 within three miles of Veolia are low income and

22 minority, and a third of these residents are living

23 below the poverty level and a minority rate of 68

24 percent. These residents are disproportionately

25 affected by the emissions from Veolia and other
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1 industrial facilities in the area. This large

2 concentration of industry gives rise to concerns

3 over cumulative air quality impacts, and given the

4 area's demographics and environmental justice

5 concerns. Because of the potential adverse public

6 health impacts from the cumulative emissions

7 exposure, it's very important for regulators to

8 mitigate the dangers of these polluting plants, and

9 for these plants to strictly adhere to emissions

10 limits for harmful pollutants.

11 In this action to reopen Veolia's

12 Title V Permit, EPA is proposing to incorporate

13 heavy metal feedrate limits based on historical

14 feedrates and the feedrates from Veolia's 2008

15 performance testing. We agree with this approach

16 and believe EPA made the right decision when it

17 denied Veolia's request to extrapolate to higher

18 feedrate. Limits for low- and semi-volatile metals

19 based on the highest 12-hour rolling average Veolia

20 feedrate over a multiyear period should not hinder

21 Veolia's routine day-to-day operations in any way.

22 These limits strike a reasonable balance between the

23 company's need for operational flexibility and

24 protection of the environment and human health in a

25 disproportionately affected area. Limiting mercury
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1 to feedrates that performance testing has shown will

2 not result in excess emissions is warranted, given

3 the special concerns about mercury deposition in and

4 around the lakes used for subsistence fishing

5 identified in EPA's own human health risk assessment

6 conducted for RCRA permitting.

7 However, we would like to point out

8 that the proposed mercury limits conflict with the

9 mercury limits in Veolia's RCRA permit. If Veolia

10 were to feed mercury continuously at the rate the

11 EPA is proposing, the amount of mercury fed to the

12 incinerators each year would exceed the limit of 3.6

13 kilograms per year specified in Veolia's state RCRA

14 Part B permit by approximately 93 kilograms. We

15 understand that the title -- the Title V and RCRA

16 permits are separate, and that the 3.6 kilograms per

17 year mercury (inaudible) --

18 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. Could I ask you

19 just to speak up a little bit?

20 MS. KRISTHY ST. HILAIRE: Okay.

21 THE REPORTER: Thank you.

22 MS. KRISTHY ST. HILAIRE: However, the

23 mercury feedrate ultimately determines the amount

24 fed to the incinerators and, therefore, we urge the

25 EPA to consider further restricting the mercury
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1 feedrate limit in the Title V permit so as to reduce

2 the likelihood of Veolia exceeding the limits set in

3 the RCRA permit.

4 In the current permitting action, EPA

5 is also proposing to supplement monitoring

6 requirements to assure compliance with the proposed

7 feedrate limits by requiring multi-metals continuous

8 emissions of monitoring systems, or CEMS, on one of

9 Veolia's three hazardous waste incinerators. This

10 is unquestionably a step in the right direction.

11 However, we believe that A -- the EPA did not go far

12 enough, that the only way to assure compliance with

13 the proposed feedrate limits is to require CEMS at

14 all three incinerators instead of just the one unit.

15 According to the Statement of Basis,

16 CEMS are the most direct means of ensuring --

17 ensuring compliance with emissions limits, which

18 help protect the public health and the environment.

19 Veolia's current procedure for ensurance -- for

20 ensuring compliance with emissions limits,

21 feedstream analysis, poses several challenges. With

22 feedstream analysis, there are uncertainties

23 associated with the measurement of extremely low

24 metals concentrations in the waste. In addition,

25 the heterogeneity of the waste may lead to a
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1 nonrepresentative sample, and hence, an inaccurate

2 estimate of the rate at which metals are being fed

3 into the incinerators. Finally, with the feedstream

4 analysis, there is an inability to demonstrate

5 continuous compliance with regulatory emissions

6 limits, since there is generally considerable lag

7 time between sampling and analysis.

8 CEMS are the only way for Veolia to

9 ensure compliance with emissions limits. Feedstream

10 analysis supplemented by periodic performance

11 testing does not work, because the feedstreams are

12 heterogeneous, which makes accurate estimation of

13 metal feedrates very difficult. According to the

14 Statement of Basis, some wastes burned by Veolia

15 have unknown composition because of -- because their

16 composition profiles have not been provided by the

17 respective waste generators. In many cases, Veolia

18 relies on waste composition analyses supplied by

19 individual waste generators, but those analyses are

20 not always accurate. The EPA further states that

21 the performance testing that is conducted

22 periodically by Veolia provides only a snapshot of

23 the emissions and does not necessarily represent

24 actual emission, actual emissions performances with

25 respect to all waste streams burned by Veolia
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1 throughout the year. Unless the EPA requires CEMS

2 on all three incinerators, EPA cannot be certain

3 that Veolia is in continuous compliance with

4 feedrate limits.

5 And additionally, we wonder whether

6 the CEMS monitors can be modified so that they, so

7 that they also monitor Units 2 and 3 simultaneously.

8 Incinerators 2 and 3 are based in one building with

9 a shared control room, waste and feed systems. As a

10 result, their stacks are in very close proximity to

11 one another. Because of their proximity, it may be

12 possible to install only one multi-metal CEM that

13 can work for both of these combustion units. In

14 this case, Veolia would only have to purchase two

15 multi-metal CEMS instead of three, and this will

16 significantly reduce the financial burden, making

17 installing CEMS at all three combustion units more

18 feasible.

19 Another reason why CEMS should be

20 required on all incinerators at Veolia is because of

21 Veolia's history of violations and non-compliance.

22 Most recently, Veolia received a Finding of

23 Violation in August of 2012 for violations of the

24 Clean Air Act after an onsite compliance

25 investigation conducted by EPA's National
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Page 25

1 Enforcement Investigations Center in December, 2011.

2 EPA found significant problems with Veolia's

3 feedstream analysis, where a high percentage of

4 Veolia's waste profiles were found to be inaccurate.

5 In some of these waste profiles, Veolia

6 underestimated the actual metals concentration in

7 the waste stream. Inspectors also found that Veolia

8 used generic waste profiles for waste streams that

9 contain volatile and semi-volatile metals. The use

10 of overly broad standard profiles leads to incorrect

11 metals concentrations being used to calculate the

12 feedrates for the incinerators. Veolia also used

13 several profiles that use metal concentrations

14 identical to those used in other profiles, which is

15 statistically unlikely. Veolia's past record offers

16 no basis to expect satisfactory performance in the

17 future. Because of the limitations of Veolia's

18 feedstream analysis, having a CEMS on just one

19 incinerator would not paint an accurate picture of

20 Veolia's compliance with feedrate limits, because

21 what is burned in the one monitored incinerator is

22 not representative of what is being burned in the

23 other, in the other two incinerators. All three of

24 Veolia's incinerators are fed a heterogeneous waste

25 stream, so a continued reliance on feedstream
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Page 26

1 analysis for these units would continue to yield

2 inaccurate emissions rates. Because of Veolia's

3 compliance history, their heterogenous feedstream,

4 and its locations in the area with environmental

5 justice concerns, CEMS monitors should be placed on

6 all three units to ensure compliance with emissions

7 limits.

8 Additionally, considering the

9 substantial benefits of using CEMS, we believe that

10 their use should be required permanently at Veolia

11 instead of the proposed one-year period. Veolia's

12 feedstream changes from day to day, month to month,

13 and year to year, so a one-year trial period would

14 not ensure compliance in the future.

15 Our last point of confusion in the

16 draft permit we would like to -- we would like

17 clarified concerns beryllium. The original permit

18 stated on Page 11 under Work Practice and

19 Operational Requirements that the permittee shall

20 not burn hospital waste -- hospital medical

21 infectious waste, municipal waste, or

22 beryllium-NESHAP containing waste. The word

23 "NESHAP" has been deleted from the condition in the

24 draft modified permit, presumably in an attempt to

25 clarify the prohibition on burning
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Page 27

1 beryllium-containing waste, but we find the

2 condition even more confusing now than before. The

3 draft -- the draft modified permit now states that

4 Veolia cannot burn beryllium-containing waste while

5 simultaneously specifying feedrate limits for

6 low-volatile metals, which specifically include

7 beryllium. We request that EPA clarify the

8 prohibition on burning beryllium-containing waste in

9 condition 2.1(C)(1).

10 Thank you again for this opportunity

11 to speak. In addition to our comments at today's

12 hearing, we will be submitting written comments

13 before the end of the public comment period.

14 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Are there any other

15 comments at this time? Are there any other

16 comments?

17 (No response.)

18 MS. GENEVIEVE DAMICO: Let's go off the

19 record for a half hour and see if anybody comes.

20 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Unless Mr. Kellmeyer,

21 unless you want to do yours? Okay. Otherwise,

22 we're going to go off the record for about a half an

23 hour. Okay? Thank you.

24 (Off the record at 3:42 p.m.)

25 (Recess)
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1 (Back on the record at 4:16 p.m.)

2 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Hello everyone. I

3 see that it's been 30 minutes, and I have no

4 commenter blue cards in my hand, so what I'd like

5 the record to show as of now that as of 4:16 p.m.,

6 since I have no commenter cards, that we are

7 recessed another 30 minutes.

8 (Off the record at 4:16 p.m.)

9 (Recess)

10 (Back on the record at 4:50 p.m.)

11 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Our comment period is

12 starting again, but we have no comments or any blue

13 cards, so what we'll do is recess another 30

14 minutes. Thank you.

15 (Off the record at 4:50 p.m.)

16 (Recess)

17 (Back on the record at 5:19 p.m.)

18 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Hello again,

19 everybody. I'm going to restart our comment period,

20 but since there are no blue cards, we'll do another

21 recess. Another 30-minute recess. Thank you.

22 (Off the record at 5:20 p.m.)

23 (Recess)

24 (Back on the record at 5:51 p.m.)

25 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Comment period will
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Page 29

1 resume. It's not too late to fill out the blue

2 card, so you still have time to make a public

3 comment. So we see there are no cards at this time,

4 so we'll recess another 30 minutes. Thank you.

5 (Off the record at 5:52 p.m.)

6 (Recess

7 (Back on the record at 6:20 p.m.)

8 HEARING OFFICER POPE: The public comment

9 period has opened again. We see there are no

10 comments at this time. The next public comment

11 period coming up will be the last one. So the next

12 public comment period will be the last time to make

13 your comments, otherwise we'll recess until -- for

14 30 more minutes.

15 (Off the record at 6:20 p.m.)

16 (Recess)

17 (Back on the record at 6:50 p.m.)

18 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Our next commenter

19 will be Joe Kellmeyer.

20 MR. JOSEPH KELLMEYER: No, I'm opening that

21 slot up, I'm not commenting. I'll comment only in

22 writing.

23 HEARING OFFICER POPE: Okay, let the record

24 show Mr. Kellmeyer said he will be commenting in

25 writing.
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Page 30

1 Okay, and there are no more

2 commenters at this time?

3 (No response.)

4 Well, this concludes our hearing

5 tonight. Remember, if you did not give oral or

6 written comments tonight, the public comment period

7 ends on April 1st; and thank you for coming.

8 Let the record show that it is now

9 6:51 p.m. on February 19th, 2013, and the hearing

10 for the Veolia ES Technical Solutions, LLC, draft

11 operating permit is now closed. Thank you.

12 (Hearing adjourned at 6:51 p.m.)

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25
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Page 31

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

2 I, Pamela K. Needham, Certified Court

3 Reporter, Notary Public within and for the State of

4 Missouri, do certify that the witness whose

5 testimony appears in the foregoing deposition was

6 duly sworn by me; the testimony of said witness was

7 taken by me to the best of my ability and thereafter

8 reduced to typewriting under my direction; that I am

9 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any

10 of the parties to the action in which this

11 deposition was taken, and further, that I am not a

12 relative or employee of any attorney or counsel

13 employed by the parties thereto, nor financially or

14 otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

15

16 --------------------------------------

17 Notary Public within and for

18 the State of Missouri

19

20

21

22

23

24

25
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Page 32

A

ability 31:7

acceptable

10:23

accepts 9:2

accidents 15:21

accumulating

16:2

accurate 17:21

17:23 23:12

23:20 25:19

accurately 18:1

Act 9:10,17

11:18,23

14:19 24:24

action 7:8,10

13:22 20:11

22:4 31:10,14

actively 19:10

actual 17:19

23:24,24 25:6

add 7:17 11:14

addition 22:24

27:11

additional

12:25 13:6

18:14

additionally

24:5 26:8

address 8:16

adequate 12:18

13:9

adhere 20:9

adjourned

30:12

administer

15:15

Administrative

5:11

administrator

15:15

adverse 20:5

aforemention...

3:8

afternoon 3:9

5:3 8:20 15:7

19:2

Agency 1:1 3:1

3:12 4:4,6,8

5:6,11

agency's 15:20

agree 20:15

air 1:3,8 3:5,13

5:14 8:22

9:10,12,14,17

11:18 12:1,11

12:14,18

16:16 19:11

20:3 24:24

allowed 18:9

American 15:9

19:6,7,9,11

amount 9:25

10:6 12:12

21:11,23

amounts 9:8

analyses 23:18

23:19

analysis 12:24

12:25 13:1,3

13:7 17:17

22:21,22 23:4

23:7,10 25:3

25:18 26:1

analyze 18:1

analyzes 9:4

analyzing

17:21,22

Andrea 4:14

5:15

Andria 2:8

15:6,7,8

announcement

7:14

answer 7:1

13:11

anybody 27:19

APPEARAN...

4:1

appeared 17:20

appears 17:24

31:5

application

11:6,12,14

appreciate

16:21 17:14

approach

20:15

appropriate

12:21

approximately

12:14 21:14

April 7:15,16

7:18 30:7

Arcaute 4:16

5:17

area 16:4,6,9

16:14 19:12

19:13,19 20:1

20:25 26:4

areas 15:12

area's 20:4

arsenic 10:5,12

10:18

AR-18J 4:8

assessment

21:5

associated

22:23

assure 12:4

22:6,12

assures 11:23

attempt 26:24

attention 15:20

18:2

attorney 31:12

August 11:4

24:23

authority 11:19

available 6:20

7:6 8:9 11:16

11:21

average 20:19

A-N-D-R-I-A

15:8

B

B 3:10 7:23

21:14

back 5:17 28:1

28:10,17,24

29:7,17

balance 20:22

based 20:13,19

24:8

basis 19:18

22:15 23:14

25:16

bearing 14:16

17:2

behalf 19:6

believe 17:5

20:16 22:11

26:9

believes 12:19

Belleville 8:7

benefits 26:9

beryllium 10:5

10:12,18

26:17 27:7

beryllium-co...

27:1,4,8

beryllium-N...

26:22

best 31:7

bit 21:19

blood 16:8

blue 6:8 14:1

28:4,12,20

29:1

Bottom 15:9

Bottoms 19:6,7

19:9,11

Boulevard 4:8

7:25

breathe 16:16

broad 25:10

brought 15:20

building 3:10

7:23 24:8

bulk 9:3

burden 24:16

burn 26:20

27:4

burned 23:14

23:25 25:21

25:22

burning 26:25

27:8

burns 9:25

C

C 5:2

cadmium 10:5

10:12,19 16:7

calculate 25:11

call 8:12,14

called 6:9 10:3

15:17

Campus 3:10

7:25

cancer 16:8

card 6:8 18:16

29:2

cards 14:1,3

28:4,6,13,20

29:3

case 24:14

cases 23:17

cause 11:19

CCR 3:11 4:20

CEM 24:12

CEMS 12:9,10

12:19,22

14:22 17:3,12

22:8,13,16

23:8 24:1,6

24:15,17,19

25:18 26:5,9

Center 25:1

certain 3:11

24:2

CERTIFICA...

31:1

Certified 31:2

certify 31:4

Chair 15:9

challenges

22:21

chance 6:13,19
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MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES

Page 33

changed 13:21

changes 26:12

Chicago 4:9

5:19 8:22

Chief 5:13 8:22

children 16:5,9

16:13,16 18:7

18:11

chromium 10:5

10:12,18

claims 16:11

clarified 26:17

clarify 26:25

27:7

Clean 9:10,17

11:18 14:19

24:24

Clinic 19:4

close 13:13,16

17:11 18:6

24:10

closed 30:11

Club 15:10

Coalition 14:9

Colton 15:23

16:12

combustion 9:6

10:1 24:13,17

combustors

10:14,16 12:2

13:10

come 8:14

comes 27:19

coming 29:11

30:7

comment 6:13

6:19 7:4,14

7:15 11:1

13:13,15,15

13:16,22,23

13:25 19:16

27:13 28:11

28:19,25 29:3

29:8,10,12,21

30:6

commenter

6:18 14:4

15:5 18:24

28:4,6 29:18

commenters

30:2

commenting

29:21,24

comments 2:7

5:23 6:4,5,11

6:14,21,21

7:3,9,17,17

13:12,18,19

15:3 18:14,15

27:11,12,15

27:16 28:12

29:10,13 30:6

community 4:4

5:5 14:15,20

company 8:17

17:1,4

company's

20:23

compliance

10:15 11:10

11:23 12:4

17:15 18:1

22:6,12,17,20

23:5,9 24:3

24:24 25:20

26:3,6,14

composition

23:15,16,18

comprehensive

11:3

concentration

20:2 25:6

concentrations

17:20 22:24

25:11,13

concerns 20:2

20:5 21:3

26:5,17

conclude 6:15

6:16

concluded 10:1

concludes 30:4

condition

26:23 27:2,9

conducted 11:3

17:15 21:6

23:21 24:25

conflict 21:8

confusing 27:2

confusion

26:15

Conservancy

15:9 19:6,7

19:10

Conservation

15:9

consider 21:25

considerable

23:6

consideration

18:13

considered

11:15

considering

26:8

considers 11:20

consistent 13:9

14:25

consume 16:13

consumed 16:4

contain 9:8

25:9

contained

13:17

containers 9:3

containing

26:22

continue 18:5

26:1

continued

25:25

continuous

12:8 16:22

22:7 23:5

24:3

continuously

21:10

control 24:9

Coordinator

4:4 5:5

copy 13:20

counsel 31:9,12

court 4:19 5:7

6:10,24 31:2

CSR 3:11 4:20

cumulative

20:3,6

current 22:4,19

C.F.R 11:24

12:2

D

D 5:2

Damico 2:5 4:7

5:13 6:2 8:18

8:20,21 27:18

damico.gene...

4:10

dangers 20:8

data 9:24 10:1

10:9 11:16,21

David 4:14

5:15

day 3:8 26:12

26:12

day-to-day

20:21

deadly 18:3

dealing 14:14

December

11:12 25:1

decide 17:11

decision 20:16

deleted 26:23

delivered 14:20

Democrat 8:7

demographics

20:4

demonstrate

23:4

denied 20:17

deny 11:13

deposited 16:1

deposition 21:3

31:5,11

describe 9:14

describes 9:25

detail 9:15

details 7:8

determine

12:12,20

determines

21:23

determining

10:2

develop 10:16

developed

10:25

different 14:25

differing 9:8

difficult 23:13

dioxins 18:3

direct 22:16

direction 22:10

31:8

Director 14:8

dirt 16:6,16

discovered

16:19

disposal 9:1,2

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19:24 20:25

Distance 7:22

distribute

13:18

Docket 7:11

8:9

document

13:18

documents 7:7

8:8

downwind

15:12,23

16:17

draft 2:5 5:23

6:3 8:2,23

19:15 26:16

26:24 27:3,3

30:10

Due 16:13
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duly 31:6

E

E 5:2,2

East 3:10,10

7:24,25 8:6

15:11 16:19

economy 16:13

educates 19:8

Education 3:10

7:24

Edwardsville

3:10 7:24

EEE 12:2

effective 9:22

Either 18:6

elevated 16:8

16:18

eliminate 13:8

emission 23:24

emissions 9:12

9:13 10:17

11:25 12:8

14:22 16:22

19:25 20:6,9

21:2 22:8,17

22:20 23:5,9

23:23,24 26:2

26:6

emitted 12:11

16:1

employed 31:9

31:13

employee 31:12

ends 30:7

Enforcement

25:1

engineers 4:15

5:16

ensurance

22:19

ensure 11:22

12:17 23:9

26:6,14

ensuring 22:16

22:17,20

environment

14:10 19:9

20:24 22:18

environmental

1:1 3:1,12 4:4

4:6,8,15 5:6

5:16 14:9,15

14:16 19:4

20:4 26:4

EPA 1:1,7 3:1

4:12 5:12,14

5:16,18,20,24

7:5,15,17

8:18,23 9:15

9:18,20,23

10:1,9,10,14

10:22,22,23

11:5,6,13,15

11:17,20 12:3

12:16,19,23

12:25 14:12

15:15,18

16:10 19:14

19:17 20:12

20:16 21:11

21:25 22:4,11

23:20 24:1,2

25:2 27:7

EPA's 5:23 8:1

8:11 11:18

21:5 24:25

EPA-R05-O...

7:12 8:10

equipment

15:1

ES 1:3,8 3:5,12

5:24 8:3 9:19

30:10

especially 17:3

17:7

estimate 23:2

estimation

23:12

evening 3:9

everybody 5:4

5:18 8:21

28:19

exceed 21:12

exceeding 22:2

excess 21:2

Excuse 21:18

expect 25:16

explain 7:9

exposure 20:7

extended 7:15

extrapolate

20:17

extremely

22:23

F

facilities 9:5

20:1

facility 5:11

8:25 9:1 17:9

17:12 18:7,8

19:19

facility's 16:25

fact 7:5,6

failure 18:1

fall 16:4

families 18:8

18:11

FAP 13:4,5,9

far 15:23 22:11

feasible 24:18

February 1:8

3:8 7:21 30:9

fed 21:11,24

23:2 25:24

federal 10:13

13:9

feed 10:8 21:10

24:9

feedrate 9:23

9:24 10:3,6

10:11,16,21

11:8,14 12:5

12:17,20,24

20:13,18,20

21:23 22:1,7

22:13 24:4

25:20 27:5

feedrates 14:14

20:14,14 21:1

23:13 25:12

feedstream

13:3,7 17:16

22:21,22 23:3

23:9 25:3,18

25:25 26:3,12

feedstreams

23:11

fifteen 12:15

file 7:9,17

filed 13:15

files 13:19

fill 14:1,2 29:1

filling 6:7

final 13:20

Finally 23:3

financial 24:16

financially

31:13

find 7:10 27:1

Finding 24:22

findings 17:25

18:4

finish 6:20

finished 6:17

first 6:2 8:18

14:4 19:14

fish 16:2,13

fishing 15:25

16:12 21:4

flexibility

20:23

floor 6:18

folks 17:8

foregoing 31:5

found 10:9,22

17:16,18 25:2

25:4,7

four 5:12

Francisco 4:16

5:17

Frank 15:22

16:12

front 8:15

full 17:23

fun 14:7

furans 18:3

further 21:25

23:20 31:11

future 25:17

26:14

G

G 5:2

game 17:5

gardens 16:4

16:14

generally 23:6

generators

23:17,19

generic 25:8

Genevieve 2:5

4:7 5:13 6:2

8:18,20,21

27:18

give 6:11 8:18

15:3 18:2

30:5

given 16:25

17:25 18:4

20:3 21:2

gives 20:2

go 22:11 27:18

27:22

going 14:6,7

27:22 28:19

Good 5:3 8:20

15:7 19:2

gotten 6:19

governing

10:13

Group 15:10

groups 15:14

H

half 6:14 27:19

27:22

hand 28:4

hard 19:15
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harmful 20:10

hazardous 9:4

9:8,12,14

10:14 12:1,1

13:10 15:13

16:17 17:5

19:18 22:9

health 20:6,24

21:5 22:18

hearing 1:7 2:3

3:8 4:2 5:3,7

5:7 6:1,7 7:1

7:2,21 8:1,5

8:11,24 13:24

15:5,20 17:24

18:16,20,23

19:16 27:12

27:14,20 28:2

28:11,18,25

29:8,18,23

30:4,9,12

heavy 10:4,7

11:20 16:3,7

16:23 17:24

20:13

held 3:8 7:22

Hello 28:2,18

help 12:16

22:18

heterogeneity

22:25

heterogeneous

23:12 25:24

heterogenous

26:3

high 16:6,8

17:17 25:3

higher 3:10

7:24 20:17

highest 20:19

Hilaire 2:8

18:19,22,22

18:24,25 19:1

19:3 21:20,22

hinder 20:20

historical 9:23

20:13

history 15:21

16:25 18:4

24:21 26:3

holding 6:25

hope 18:2

hospital 26:20

26:20

hour 10:8

27:19,23

hours 3:9

human 20:24

21:5

H-I-L-A-I-R-E

19:1

I

ID 7:11 8:10

identical 25:14

identified 21:5

identify 8:16

IEPA 3:12

IL 3:11 4:9,20

Illinois 3:9,11

5:19 6:1 7:23

8:1,4,25

impacted 18:8

18:12

impacts 20:3,6

implementing

11:24

important

14:17 20:7

improve 12:23

inability 23:4

inaccurate

17:18 23:1

25:4 26:2

inaudible

21:17

incinerate

15:13

incinerates 9:6

incineration

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22:14 23:3

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19:21

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Incorporation

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19:19
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locations 26:4

Logan 2:7 14:5

14:6,11

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making 5:8

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matter 1:7 3:8

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percentage

17:17 25:3
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performance

10:25 11:4,16

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REMARKS

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reporter 4:19

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take 6:3 11:1

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Technical 1:3,8

3:5,13 5:25

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30:10

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test 10:16,21

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2008 9:21,22

10:22 11:4,5

20:14

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2012 11:12

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