From: Hirsch, Bruce R [mailto:Bruce.R.Hirsch@bge.com]

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:53 PM

To: 'Robert Berman'

Cc: 'Bob Smith'; 'Alex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; 'Cr eevy Jim'; 'Cohen Dan'; 'Carlos Siquieros'; 'Brenda

Edwards'; 'Eduardo Robles'; 'Daniel Young'; Aris Ma rantan; 'Art Rosenfeld'; 'Bob Saint'; Brian Coffey;

Caitlin Johnson; 'Gaytan Carlos'; 'Caske y, John'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 'Charlie Stevens'; 'Chris Bolduc'; 'Clark

Silcox'; 'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman, Jeremiah'; 'Fernstrom Gary'; 'Coulter Greg'; 'Greg Rosenquist'; 'James

Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Raba Jim'; 'Jerry Corkra n'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry Schoen'; 'Mauer Joanna';

'Cymbalsky John'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Coughlin Katie'; 'Winder Ken'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat'; 'Matt Miller';

Matthew Nardotti; 'Waltner Meg'; 'Meyers, Aaron'; 'Mic hael Hyland'; Michael Rivest; 'Millure, Dave'; 'Phil

Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polinski Raymond'; 'Kumar Puesh'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob Greeson'; 'Thomas

Patzner'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'Roy Robin'; 'Ryan Pa ul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons, Chuck'; 'Steve Nadel';

'Chad Kennedy'; 'Steve Rosenstock'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom'; 'Wes Patterson'; Zhimei Luo; 'Vijay Tendulkar';

'Richard Parker'

Subject: RE: MVLF and LV Groups

I certainly can buy into this philosophy. Bruce

From: Robert Berman [ mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com ]

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:46 PM

To: Hirsch, Bruce R

Cc: 'Bob Smith'; 'Robert Berman'; 'A lex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; 'C reevy Jim'; 'Cohen Dan'; 'Carlos

Siquieros'; 'Brenda Edwards'; 'Eduardo Robles'; 'Dan iel Young'; 'Aris Marantan'; 'Art Rosenfeld'; 'Bob

Saint'; 'Brian Coffey'; 'Johnson Caitlin'; 'Gaytan Carlos'; 'Caskey, John'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 'Charlie Stevens';

'Chris Bolduc'; 'Clark Silcox'; 'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman , Jeremiah'; 'Fernstrom Gary'; 'Coulter Greg'; 'Greg

Rosenquist'; 'James Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Raba Jim'; 'Jerry Corkran'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry Schoen';

'Mauer Joanna'; 'Cymbalsky John'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Coughlin Katie'; 'Winder Ke n'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat';

'Matt Miller'; 'Matthew Nardotti'; 'Waltner Meg'; 'Mey ers, Aaron'; 'Michael Hyland'; 'Michael Rivest';

'Millure, Dave'; 'Phil Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polin ski Raymond'; 'Kumar Puesh'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob

Greeson'; 'Thomas Patzner'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'R oy Robin'; 'Ryan Paul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons,

Chuck'; 'Steve Nadel'; 'Chad Kennedy'; 'Steve Rosenstock'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom'; 'Wes Patterson'; 'Zhimei

Luo'; 'Vijay Tendulkar'; 'Richard Parker'

Subject: Re: MVLF and LV Groups



### Given that the presentation suggested load factor s on the LV dry-type transformers in the 12 -

16% range (with many even in the 6-7% range) due to fire codes, we should be looking at the

lower end for those units. For MVLF, we might wa nt to drop to 25% or 30% to address the

market that many rural coops face.



### Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703

‐ 281

‐ 0490

703

‐ 655

‐ 8398 (cell)

### BermanEconomics@gmail.com

On Oct 4, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Hirsch, Bruce R wrote:

I see value in this exercise regardless of how it is reported.

I would like to see these calculations be done at both the 50% average load and at 35% average load to

give an idea of the sensitivity of the loading factor.

Bruce

From: Bob Smith [ mailto:bsmith@federalpacific.com ]

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:44 PM

To: 'Robert Berman'

Cc: 'Alex Hofmann'; 'Andrew Delaski'; 'Creevy Jim'; 'C ohen Dan'; 'Carlos Siquieros'; 'Brenda Edwards';

'Eduardo Robles'; 'Daniel Young'; 'Aris Marantan'; 'A rt Rosenfeld'; 'Bob Saint'; 'Brian Coffey'; 'Johnson

Caitlin'; 'Gaytan Carlos'; 'Caskey, Jo hn'; 'Charlie Drexler'; 'Charlie Stevens'; 'Chris Bolduc'; 'Clark Silcox';

'Eric Peterson'; 'Freeman, Jeremiah'; 'Fernstrom Gary'; 'Coulter Greg'; 'Greg Rosenquist'; Hirsch, Bruce R;

'James Lass'; 'Jennifer Tiedeman'; 'Raba Jim'; 'Jerry Corkran'; 'Jerry Hodge'; 'Jerry Schoen'; 'Mauer

Joanna'; 'Cymbalsky John'; 'John Rossetti'; 'Coughlin Katie'; 'Winder Ken'; 'Mahesh P. Sampat'; 'Matt

Miller'; 'Matthew Nardotti'; 'Waltner Meg'; 'Meyers, Aaron'; 'Michael Hyland'; 'Michael Rivest'; 'Millure,

Dave'; 'Phil Harter'; 'Phil Hopkinson'; 'Polinski Raym ond'; 'Kumar Puesh'; 'Rick Anderson'; 'Rob Greeson';

'Thomas Patzner'; 'Robert van Buskirk'; 'Roy Robin'; 'Ryan Paul'; 'Scott Beck'; 'Simmons, Chuck'; 'Steve

Nadel'; 'Chad Kennedy'; 'Steve Rose nstock'; 'Tim Ballo'; 'Tom'; 'Wes Patterson'; 'Zhimei Luo'; 'Vijay

Tendulkar'; 'Richard Parker'

Subject: RE: MVLF and LV Groups

Dear Robert:

You are correct that there is a definite KW

‐ HR savings that can be quantified in dollars, when higher

efficiency equipment is bought.

When considering an investment, for which an expected $ savings will occur, most privately held

commercial and industrial companies feel they must obtain a payback within 3

‐ 5 years. Should we not

see this financial attribute, the payback period

, be calculated with each of the design alternatives

referenced to the CSL

‐ 0 designs, particularly in the non

‐ utility markets served by the LV and MV dry

‐ type

manufacturers? The payback calculation is very simple: You just divide your 

### (incremental delivered

transformer cost) by (the annual KW-HR savings). No present worth, LCC, discount rates or Crystal

Balls are needed.

Thanks,

Bob Smith, PE

Product Manager

Federal Pacific

601 Old Airport RoadBristol, VA 24201

TEL: (276) 645-8836

FAX: (276) 645-8212

CELL: (276) 591-6143

Email: bsmith@federalpacific.com

The information contained in this message and any attachments is intended only for the use of the individual or

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From: Robert Berman [ mailto:bermaneconomics@gmail.com ]

Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:57 PM

To: Richard Parker

Cc: Alex Hofmann; Andrew Delaski; Creevy Jim; Cohen Dan; Carlos Siquieros; Brenda Edwards; Eduardo

Robles; Daniel Young; Aris Marantan; Art Rosenfeld; Bob Saint; Brian Coffey; Bruce Smith; Johnson

Caitlin; Gaytan Carlos; Caskey, John; Charlie Drexler; Charlie Stevens; Chris Bolduc; Clark Silcox; Eric

Peterson; Freeman, Jeremiah; Fernstrom Gary; Coulte r Greg; Greg Rosenquist; Hirsch, Bruce R; James

Lass; Jennifer Tiedeman; Raba Jim; Jerry Corkran; Jerry Hodge; Jerry Schoen; Mauer Joanna; Cymbalsky

John; John Rossetti; Coughlin Katie; Winder Ken; Mahesh P. Sampat; Matt Miller; Matthew Nardotti;

Waltner Meg; Meyers, Aaron; Michael Hyland; Michae l Rivest; Millure, Dave; Phil Harter; Phil Hopkinson;

Polinski Raymond; Kumar Puesh; Rick Anderson; Rob Greeson; Robert Berman; Thomas Patzner; Robert

van Buskirk; Roy Robin; Ryan Paul; Scott Beck; Si mmons, Chuck; Steve Nadel; Chad Kennedy; Steve

Rosenstock; Tim Ballo; Tom; Wes Patterson; Zhimei Luo; Vijay Tendulkar

Subject: MVLF and LV Groups



### I'd like to reconsider my response to John Cymb alsky, at the end of the LV meeting, regarding

showing the cost per kWh saved (based on the in cremental delivered transformer cost and the

incremental energy savings, compared to dEL0). I believe John is correct and the cost per kWh

SHOULD be shown for each dEL/TSL/CSL for the li fe of the transformer. This is simply the

ratio of the 30 year stream of annual kWh savings (discounted at 3% and 7%) to the incremental

delivered transformer cost. Showing this in al l groups will provide a common comparison for all

transformers as well as the a common reference for other energy savings programs in DOE's

portfolios as well as the efficiency portfolios of the other participants.

I, of course, remain supportive of Tom Panzer's recommendation for a TSL basis, also discussed

at that meeting.

### Regards,

Robert A. Berman, Principal

Berman Economics

www.BermanEconomics.com

1915 Grand Court

Vienna, VA 22182

703

‐ 281

‐ 0490

703

‐ 655

‐ 8398 (cell)

BermanEconomics@gmail.com

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