# State ofNew Mexico

Susana Martinez Governor 

## June 24, 2011

Dr. Alfredo Armendariz Regional Administrator (6-A) U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Region 6 1445 Ross Avenue, Suite 1200 Dallas, TX 75202-2733 Dear Dr. Armendariz: tTl X



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## On behalf of the New Mexico Environment Department, I am pleased to submit to the Environmental Protection Agency the enclosed revisions to the New Mexico State Implementation Plan (SIP). These revisions include amendments to New Mexico's Regional Haze SIP under 40 CFR § 51.309. The hearing record for all of the SIP revisions is attached, which includes the revised SIP, filed regulations, transcripts, exhibits, public notices, affidavits of publication, the notice of intent to present technical testimony, and public comments. Included with the attached hardcopy of the hearing record is an electronic copy of the record provided on disk which I certify to be an exact duplicate of the hardcopy. These SIP revisions satisfY the requirements of the Clean Air Act, comply with EPA regulations and policy, and will result in significant emission reductions while preserving the proper federalstate partnership envisioned under the Clean Air Act. As such, EPA must approve these revisions. In addition, because the enclosed SIP revisions address two different provisions of the federal Clean Air Act, I believe EPA should address them separately. First, the enclosed "Interstate Transport SIP" addresses Section 11 0 of the Act, which requires states to avoid interfering with any other states' implementation plans for visibility. As made clear in the Interstate Transport SIP submitted in 2007, and further explained in two letters to EPA Region 6 from the previous New Mexico administration (one from Governor Richardson on June 12,2009 and another from a member of his staff on May 6, 2010), New Mexico has already satisfied its Interstate Transport obligations. However, the enclosed Interstate Transport SIP supplements those previous submittals by confirming that the emissions from New Mexico sources will not exceed the assumptions utilized in the modeling conducted by the Western Regional Air Partnership (WRAP), upon which other western states' visibility plans are based.

State Capitol • Room 400 • Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 • 505-476-2200 • fax: 505-476-2226

## EPA has already recognized that "the analysis conducted by the WRAP provides an appropriate means for designing a [plan] that will ensure that emissions from sources in New Mexico are not interfering with the visibility programs ofother states." 

# In fact, the enclosed Interstate Transport SIP confirms that emissions will actually be much lower than the WRAP modeling assumptions. Second, the enclosed revisions to the 2003 "Regional Haze Section 309 SIP" and the enclosed "Regional Haze Section 309(g) SIP" (together, the "Regional Haze SIPs") address New Mexico's obligation to reduce visibility impairment at national parks and wilderness areas ("Class I areas") in accordance with Sections 169A & 

## 169B ofthe Clean Air Act. The Regional Haze SIPs satisfy New Mexico's regional haze requirements by adopting new sulfur dioxide (S02) milestones for the Section 309 Backstop Trading Program, establishing reasonable progress goals and a long-term strategy for New Mexico's nine Class I areas, and adopting a variety of control measures to address emissions of visibility impairing pollutants from New Mexico sources. Most notably, the enclosed Regional Haze SIP also includes a Best Available Retrofit Technology (BART) determination for the San Juan Generating Station, which requires the installation of a Selective Non-Catalytic Reduction (SNCR) system to meet EPA's presumptive BART limit for nitrogen oxides (NO,). I am aware that EPA has proposed a different plan for implementing the Interstate Transport program and at least a portion of the Regional Haze program in New Mexico through a combined Federal Implementation Plan (FIP). I am also aware ofEPA's concern that it is bound by a court order to complete that rulemaking effort by August 5, 20 II. However, the court order imposing the August 5, 20 II deadline only requires EPA to address Interstate Transport requirements before that date. In addition, the proposed FIP suffers from a variety of legal and technical flaws and inappropriately seeks to address only an isolated portion ofthe regional haze program. Under these circumstances, I believe EPA can and should address the Interstate Transport program and Regional Haze program separately. Doing so will enable EPA to address New Mexico's Interstate Transport requirements by the court-ordered deadline, while allowing additional time for review ofthe more lengthy and complicated Regional Haze SIPs. One of the fundamental principles expressed in Section !OI of the Clean Air Act is that "air pollution control at its source is the primary responsibility of States and local governments." That principle is nowhere better illustrated in the Act than in its visibility provisions, which, as EPA and the courts have recognized, grant to the states significant discretion in the implementation of measures to address visibility impairment. In designing the regional haze program, Congress recognized that the individual states are best-equipped to balance the need for robust environmental protections with the costs those protections necessarily entail. Moreover, nothing in the Clean Air Act requires EPA to address Interstate Transport and Regional Haze requirements together. On the contrary, EPA has generally addressed these programs separately in the past. As just one example, EPA Region 8 recently proposed to take separate action on the Interstate Transport and Regional Haze implementation plan revisions submitted by the state of Colorado. Even EPA's proposed FIP for New Mexico itself contemplates separate Interstate Transport and Regional Haze plans with regard to S02 emiSSIOns.

## Accordingly, EPA should meet its August 5, 2011 deadline by simply approving New Mexico's prior Interstate Transport submittals, as supplemented by the enclosed Interstate Transport SIP. Even if EPA does not agree that New Mexico's prior submittals have already satisfied its Interstate Transport obligations, EPA should be able to act on New Mexico's four-page Interstate Transport SIP before August 5, 2011. Since the court order does not require EPA to address New Mexico's Regional Haze program by August 5, 2011, New Mexico is now, as of this submittal, in the same position as nearly every other state

- awaiting EPA action on its Regional Haze SIP. As with other states, EPA must determine whether New Mexico's Regional Haze SIPs are complete no more than six months from this date and, following that completeness determination or the expiration of six months, EPA must act to approve or disapprove those SIPs within twelve months, including time allowed for public notice and comment on the proposed action. Because EPA will be required to consider New Mexico's Regional Haze SIPs regardless of whether it flllalizes the proposed FIP, EPA should take no action on its proposed FIP, particularly since the August 5, 2011 deadline does not apply to regional haze. At a minimum, EPA should reopen the docket on the proposed PIP for at least ninety (90) days to accept further comment in light ofthe submission ofthese SIP revisions. I hope you will begin an immediate, expedited review and approval ofthe enclosed SIP revisions and, as recommended above, take separate action on the separate Interstate Transport and Regional Haze requirements ofthe Clean Air Act. If there are any questions concerning this SIP submittal, please contact Raj 

## Solomon at (505) 827-2855. Sincerely,

Susana Martinez Governor Enclosures

cc: Guy Donaldson, EPA Region 6 Dave Martin, NMED Cabinet Secretary Raj 

## Solomon, NMED Deputy Cabinet Secretary

## 1 

# List of Enclosures: 01 Section 309 Revised State Implementation Plan 02 Appendix K - Recommendations for Making Attribution Determinations in the Context of Reasonably Attributable BART 03 20.2.73 NMAC Revisions - Notices of Intent and Emissions Inventory Requirements 04 20.2.81 NMAC Revisions - Western Backstop Sulfur Dioxide Trading Program 05 Section 309(g) State Implementation Plan 06 Appendix A - Emissions Overview (WRAP, undated) 07 Appendix B - Air Quality Modeling (WRAP, undated) 08 Appendix C - Summary of WRAP RMC BART Modeling for New Mexico 09 Appendix D - New Mexico BART Determination for San Juan Generating Station 10 Appendix E - Supplementary Information for Four Factor Analyses by WRAP States, EC/R Incorporated, May 4,2009 (corrected April 20, 2010) 11 Appendix F - Supplementary Information for Four-Factor Analyses for Selected Individual Facilities in New Mexico, May 5, 2009 12 NMED Notice of Intent to Present Technical Testimony - May 2, 2011 13 NMED Ex. 1 Clean Air Act § 169A 14 NMED Ex. 2 Clean Air Act § 169B 15 NMED Ex. 3 40 C.F.R. § 51.308 (Regional Haze Rule § 308) 16 NMED Ex. 4 40 C.F.R. § 51.309 (Regional Haze Rule § 309) 17 NMED Ex. 5 BART Guidelines – Appendix Y to 40 C.F.R. Part 51 Published at 70 Fed. Reg. 39104 18 NMED Ex. 6 NMED Requests for Information from PNM 19 NMED Ex. 6a Email - BART Modeling Results from WRAP (11.9.06) 20 NMED Ex. 6b Email – PNM San Juan Generating BART Modeling (6-26-07) 21 NMED Ex. 6c Email - Comments on the BART modeling report for the San Juan Generating Station (7.30.07) 22 NMED Ex. 6d Email - SJGS BART Analysis Additional Information Request (9.21.07) 23 NMED Ex. 6e Letter - Department Request (12.21.07) 24 NMED Ex. 6f Letter PNM-BART-Request (4-25-08) 25 NMED Ex. 6g Email - PNM NOxInformation Review (3.20.08) 26 NMED Ex. 6h Email - Meeting (6.18.08) 27 NMED Ex. 6i Letter – Additional Information Request (12.29.08)

## 2 

# 28 NMED Ex. 7 PNM Submittals Related to BART 29 NMED Ex. 7a San Juan BART Modeling Protocol (4.13.07) 30 NMED Ex. 7b PNM BART Analysis (6.6.07) 31 NMED Ex. 7c Email Thread with Cost Analysis Attached 32 NMED Ex. 7d SCR Cost Analysis - (7.11.07) 33 NMED Ex. 7e SNCR HybridCost Analysis (7.11.07) 34 NMED Ex. 7f Updated Visibility Cost Effectiveness Data - (8.23.07) 35 NMED Ex. 7g PNM Response to NMED(9.14.07) - September 14, 2007 36 NMED Ex. 7h PNM SCR Schematic 37 NMED Ex. 7i Refined Visibility Results (11.5.07) 38 NMED Ex. 7j PNM Discussion of OAQPS Cost Manual Method (3.29.08) 39 NMED Ex. 7k Final BARTModeling Response (3.31.08) 40 NMED Ex. 7L Final BARTSNCR Analysis (5.30.08) 41 NMED Ex. 7m Discussion of SJGS Coal and Classification 42 NMED Ex. 7n Final Nalco-MOBOTEC NOx BART Analysis (8.28.08) 43 NMED Ex. 7o Final PM BART Analysis (8.28.08) 44 NMED Ex. 7p PNM SO3 Removal Report (3.16.09) 45 NMED Ex. 7q SNCR Cover Ltr (2.9.11) 46 NMED Ex. 7r PNM BART SNCRAnalysis Update (2.9.11) 47 NMED Ex. 7s SNCRCover Ltr (2.11.11) 48 NMED Ex. 7t Revised SNCR Analysis (2.11.11) 49 NMED Ex. 7u Rate Impact Analysis (2.11.11) 50 NMED Ex. 8 Testimony of Mary Uhl 51 NMED Ex. 8a Testimony on Scientific and Regulatory Background of Regional Haze 52 NMED Ex. 8b Regional Haze Powerpoint Slides 53 NMED Ex. 8c Testimony Re BART Determination for PNM SJGS 54 NMED Ex. 9 Testimony of Rita Bates 55 NMED Ex. 9a Testimony Re Revisions to 2003 § 309 SIP 56 NMED Ex. 9b Testimony Re Proposed §309(g) SIP 57 NMED Ex. 10 Additional Proposed Revisions to § 309 SIP (5.2.11) 58 NMED Ex. 11 Additional Proposed Revisions to § 309(g) SIP (5.2.11) 59 NMED Ex. 12 Public Notices

## 3 

# 60 San Juan Citizens Alliance Comment Letter - May 3, 2011 61 NMED Response to San Juan Citizens Alliance Comments 62 Public Service Company of New MexicoNotice of Intent to Present Technical Testimony - May 17, 2011 63 San Juan Coal Company Notice of Intent to Present Technical Testimony - May 17, 2011 64 The Natural Resources Defense Council, San Juan Citizens Alliance, and WildEarth Guardians Entry of Appearance - May 17, 2011 65 NMED Notice of Receipt of Comments - May 16, 2011 (includes U.S. EPA Comments) 66 NMED Supplemental Notice of Intentto Present Technical Testimony - May 20, 2011 67 NMED Ex. 13 May 20, 2011 Revisions to § 309(g) SIP in Response to EPA Comments 68 NMED Ex. 14 May 20, 2011 Revisions to 20.2.81 NMAC in Response to EPA Comments 69 NMED Ex. 15 May 13, 2011 Comments from U.S. EPA Region 6 70 NMED Ex. 16 NMED Responses toEPA Comments of May 13, 2011 71 NMED Ex. 17 U.S.F.S. Letter of March 30, 2011with Comments 72 NMED Ex. 18 NMED Response to U.S .F.S Comments of March 30, 2011 73 NMED Ex. 19 Proposed Statement of Reasons for Adoption and Order 74 NMED Second Notice of Receipt of Comments - May 26, 2011 (includes comments received May 25, 2011 from U.S. Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service) 75 NMED Exhibits Presented at the June 1, 2011 Hearing 76 NMED Ex. 20 Compiled Section 309(g) SIP (included herein as Section 309(g) SIP) -- was not included in submittal EPA received -- probably the same as enclosures 05 to 11. 77 NMED Ex. 21 Responses to U.S. Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service Comments 78 Transcript of Hearing - June 1 and 2, 2011 (Volumes 1 and 2) 79 New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board Statement of Reasons for Adoption of SIP Revisions

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# 1

STATE OF NEW MEXICO BEFORE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD

No . EIB 11

- 01 (R) IN THE MATTER OF THE PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN FOR REGIONAL HAZE

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BE IT REMEMBERED that on the 1 st day of June , 2011 , this matter came on for hearing before the Environmental Improvement Board , taken at the State Capitol Building , Room 307 , 490 Old Santa Fe Trail , Santa Fe , New Mexico , at the hour of 9: 40 a.m.

VOLUME 1

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# 2

A P P E A R A N C E S The Hearing Officer : FELICIA ORTH New Mexico Environment Department 1190 St . Francis Drive Harold Runnels Building Santa Fe , New Mexico 87501 The New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board : DEBORAH PEACOCK GREGORY H. FULFER JAMES R. CASCIANO JOHN MICHAEL VOLKERDING TIMOTHY L. MORROW JEFFREY W. BRYCE ELIZABETH RYAN STEPHEN VIGIL Assistant Attorney General Civil Division Office of the Attorney General Post Office Drawer 1508 Santa Fe , New Mexico 87504

- 1508 ( 505 ) 827

- 6040 svigil @ nmag . gov

For New Mexico Environment Department : BILL GRANTHAM Office of General Counsel New Mexico Environment Department Post Office Box 5469 1190 St . Francis Drive Suite N- 4064 Santa Fe , New Mexico 87502

- 5469 ( 575 ) 779

- 1627 bill . grantham @ state . nm . us

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# 3 A P P E A R A N C E S ( Continued ) For Public Service Company of New Mexico and Southwestern Public Service Company : RICHARD L. ALVIDREZ MILLER STRATVERT PA Attorneys at Law 500 Marquette , Northwest Suite 1100 Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102 ( 505 ) 824

- 4737 ralvidrez @ mstlaw . com For San Juan Coal Company : CHARLES E. ROYBAL Manager of Energy Coal Legal BHP Billiton 300 West Arrington Suite 200 Farmington , New Mexico 87401 ( 505 ) 598

- 4358 charles . ce . roybal @ bhpbilliton . com

For Natural Resources Defense Council , San Juan Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians : ERIK SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH Western Environmental Law Center 208 Paseo del Pueblo Sur Unit 602 Taos , New Mexico 87571 ( 575 ) 613

- 4197 eriksg @ westernlaw . org

For M-S-R Public Power Agency : LOUIS W. ROSE MONTGOMERY & ANDREW , PA Attorneys at Law Post Office Box 2307 325 Paseo de Peralta Santa Fe , New Mexico 87504

- 2307 ( 505 ) 982

- 3873 lrose @ montand . com

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# 4

I N D E X PAGE WITNESSES : RITA BATES and MARY UHL Direct Examination by Mr . Grantham 18 Cross Examination by Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich 30 Examination by the Board 32 Redirect Examination by Mr . Grantham 45 CARLA SONNTAG Direct Testimony 48 JAMES CRAWFORD Direct Testimony 50 JUDY WILLIAMS Direct Testimony 54 LISA LAW Direct Testimony 56 BRUCE MADDEN Direct Testimony 58 MARLENE PERROTTE Direct Testimony 61 JOAN BROWN Direct Testimony 64 JUAN REYNOSA Direct Testimony 69

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# 5 I N D E X ( Continued ) PAGE VIRGINIA MILLER Direct Testimony 74 Open Remarks by Mr . Alvidrez 77 PATRICK THEMIG Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 82 Examination by the Board 87 GERARD T. ORTIZ Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 96 Cross Examination by Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich 99 DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 101 Examination by the Board 110 STEVE NEVILLE Direct Testimony 130 PAUL BANDY Direct Testimony 132 RAY BEGAY Direct Testimony 134 NATE GENTRY Direct Testimony 138

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# 6 I N D E X ( Continued ) PAGE NORMA MC CALLAN Direct Testimony 141 PAUL GESSING Direct Testimony 145 BEVERLEE MC CLURE Direct Testimony 147 ELIZABETH SLOTA Direct Testimony 150 ERIK SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH Direct Testimony 152 Examination by the Board 159

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# 7

E X H I B I T S ADMITTED NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT : 1. Clean Air Act Section 169 A 30 2. Clean Air Act Section 169 B 30 3. 40 CFR Section 51 . 308 ( Regional Haze Rule Section 308 ) 30 4. 40 CFR Section 51 . 309 ( Regional Haze Rule Section 309 ) 30 5. BART Guidelines

- Appendix Y to 40 CFR Part 51 , published at 70 Fed . Reg . 39104 30 6a through 6i. NMED requests for information from PNM 30 7a through 7u. PNM submittals related to BART 30 8a through 8c. Testimony of Mary Uhl 30 9a through 9b. Testimony of Rita Bates 30 10 . Additional proposed revisions to Section 309 SIP (5.2. 11 ) 30 11 . Additional proposed revisions to Section 309 (g) SIP (5.2. 11 ) 30 12 . Public notices 30 13 . May 20 , 2011 , revisions to Section 309 (g) SIP in response to EPA comments 30 14 . May 20 , 2011 , revisions to 20 .2. 81 NMAC in response to EPA comments 30

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# 8 E X H I B I T S ( Continued ) ADMITTED NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT ( Continued ): 15 . May 13 , 2011 , comments from USEPA Region 6 30 16 . NMED responses to EPA comments of May 13 , 2011 30 17 . USFS letter of March 30 , 2011 , with comments 30 18 . NMED response to USFS comments of March 30 , 2011 19 . Proposed Statement of Reasons for Adoption and Order 30 20 . New Mexico State Implementation Plan , Regional Haze , Section 309 (g), ( revised May 20 , 2011 ) 30 21 . National Park Service and US Fish and Wildlife Service Technical Comments , New Mexico Revised Regional Haze Section 309 (g) State Implementation Plan , May 25 , 2011 30 PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO : A. Pre - Filed Testimony of Patrick J. Themig Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico 83

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# 9 E X H I B I T S ( Continued ) ADMITTED PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO ( Continued ): B. Pre - Filed Testimony of Gerard T. Ortiz Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico 97 C. Pre - Filed Testimony of Black & Veatch Corporation ( Diane M. Fischer and Kyle J. Lucas ) Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico 103

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# 10

MS . ORTH : Good morning . My name is Felicia Orth , the Hearing Officer appointed by the Board to conduct a hearing in EIB 11-01. This is proposed revisions to the State Implementation Plan , which you ' ll hear referred to as the SIP , for regional haze .

There are a number of parties in this matter , and I' ll ask counsel for their appearances in a moment .

The hearing will be conducted in accordance with 20 .1.1. These are the Board 's rulemaking procedures , as modified somewhat by an order establishing procedures that was entered in March , and slightly modified further pursuant to a teleconference among counsel and the Hearing Officer last week .

Just a few things . Testimony is taken under oath . It is subject to cross - examination . There are at least two parties who intend to present some of their technical witnesses

as a panel .

If you have not submitted pre filed technical testimony , you may offer non technical public comment at this time , and we ' ll talk about non technical public comment . The hearing is being recorded and transcribed by Cheryl Arreguin of Kathy Townsen d Court Reporters .

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# 11

Please contact Cheryl directly if you 'd like a copy of the transcript . Eventually it also becomes a public record when received in the office of the administrator and may be reviewed in our offices .

We expect this hearing to proceed through today in Santa Fe , tomorrow in Farmington . The Board may choose to make a decision at the end of the closure of the record . And we don 't know if that will be tomorrow or Friday in Farmington .

So if you have , again , verbal public comment , I will invite it . If you have written public comment , you may simply bring it up to the desk , and we ' ll accept it up until closure of the record .

Counsel , would you make your appearances . Mr . Grantham , please start . MR . GRANTHAM : Good morning , Madam Hearing Officer . My name is Bill Grantham . I'm assistant general counsel with the Environment Department . And I' ll introduce my witnesses shortly , when we begin testimony . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you .

Mr . Alvidrez . MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes , Madam Hearing Officer , members of the Board .

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# 12 My name is Rick Alvidrez with the Miller Stratvert law firm on behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico .

MS . ORTH : Thank you . Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Erik Schlenker

- Goodrich , Western Environmental Law Center , representing National Resources Defense Council , San Juan Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians .

MS . ORTH : All right . Anyone else here ? Sir . MR . ROYBAL : Good morning , Madam Hearing Officer . Charles Roybal here for San Juan Coal Company .

MS . ORTH : Okay . Anyone else here ? No . All right . We do have some other parties who were intending to present public comment , and again , let me say for the record what I said to Mr . Crawford in an E- mail , in an effort to be forthcoming , not confusing .

What I was explaining to Mr . Crawford is that I don 't have a printer or a copier here at the round house . The Board does not have available to it

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# 13 while we ' re here in this building or at the college in Farmington a printer or a copier .

So I was encouraging Mr . Crawford , and I' ll encourage any of the rest of you , yes , we will accept certainly E- mail comment . It 's our protocol . However , if you send it now , during the hearing , I don 't have an opportunity to print it off for the Board to look at . I simply have an opportunity to forward it to them .

The best way if you want to offer written comment during the

-- during the hearing , the best way to assure that it 's in their hands before they deliberate is to come with eight copies .

That 's what I was trying to explain , and that 's -- that 's for everyone .

So the order of testimony , which is what we discussed last week , will be the Department here first . And pursuant to the procedural order , their actual narrative testimony came in in written form quite some time ago . What they ' ll be doing here is just summarizing it and then standing for questions on it .

We ' ll next hear from PNM. And we will probably not hear from BHP Billiton , San Juan Coal Company until we get to Farmington . The plan is to hear from their witnesses in Farmington .

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# 14

So , Mr . Grantham

-- oh . Public comment , before we begin with Mr . Grantham .

I'd like to have lots of opportunities for public comment . We could make an opportunity right now , before we hear any of the technical case , for those who have come early , to make sure that they have an opportunity to offer public comment .

We could also hear public comment after the Department 's case , when I would tend to invite it anyway , and after the next party 's case and after the next party 's case .

Does the Board have any input for the Hearing Officer on that ?

MS . PEACOCK : I'd like to hear some of the testimony before we hear the public comment . I think it would fit better for us --

MS . ORTH : All right . MS . PEACOCK : -- and make more sense . MS . ORTH : Thank you . Mr . Grantham , if you would , please . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you , Madam Hearing Officer . Good morning .

Good morning , Madam Chair , members of the Board . Again , my name is Bill Grantham . I'm an

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# 15 attorney with the Environment Department .

And as the Hearing Officer has indicated , the testimony of our witnesses has been pre filed and who are with me today , Rita Bates , the head of the planning section for the Air Quality Bureau , and Mary Uhl , who is

now chief of the OSHA Bureau , but until recently was chief of the Air Quality Bureau .

I will have just a few questions for them to supplement their written testimony , and then we ' ll stand for cross - examination as a panel .

First , I'd just like to provide a little bit of context to the Board to help the Board understand how the Department 's testimony corresponds with the regulatory scheme that 's provided by the Regional Haze Rule . As you know from the pleadings , this State Implementation Plan , or SIP , was developed to comply with the requirements of so

- called Section 309 of the Regional Haze Rule . That 's 40 CFR 51 . 309 .

And Section 309 implements the recommendation s of the Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission . It 's an option that 's available to certain Western states and tribes as a means of complying with the federal regional haze requirements .

And as Ms . Uhl describes in her written

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# 16 testimony , which is at NMED Exhibit 8a in some detail , the provisions of Section 309 were developed by the Western states themselves with extensive stakeholder input , including industry , environmentalist s, federal land managers and others , to reflect unique Western conditions .

This Board approved a SIP under Section 309 in December of 2003 ; however , EPA has never acted upon that SIP submittal .

So one set of SIP revisions at issue in this proceeding are identified as revisions to the Section 309 SIP . And that 's to bring those

-- that 2003 SIP submittal up to date to current conditions so that EPA can approve it now in

-- where we are in 2011 .

And those revisions are discussed in Ms . Bates ' testimony at NMED Exhibit 9a.

That 2003 SIP addressed only one Class I area in New Mexico , which is the San Pedro Parks , because that was the only Class I area that was included in the Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission 's analyses .

However , Section 309 has a provision known as Section 309 (g) that provides that states may extend the coverage of the 309 SIP to additional Class I areas by making certain demonstrations .

So in the material before you is the so - called

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# 17 Section 309 (g) SIP , which would utilize that mechanism to extend the 309 SIP to the other eight Class I areas in New Mexico .

And as you probably realize , one mandatory element of all regional haze SIPs is the determination of the Best Available Retrofit Technology for certain facilities which were built between 19 62 and 19 77. The 2003 Section 309 SIP , as with the revisions before you , will satisfy the Best Available Retrofit Technology or BART requirements with respect to sulfur dioxide .

With regard to particulate matter and nitrogen oxide , Section 309 (g) requires that -- a determination by New Mexico for the only source in New Mexico that 's subject to BART requirements , which is the San Juan Generating Station .

And that determination is discussed in Ms . Uhl 's testimony at NMED Exhibit 8c.

And finally , there have been several revisions to the Section 309 (g) SIP since the February 28 th proposal , specifically in pleadings filed on May -- on April 1 st , May 2 nd and May 20 th . Some of those revisions are to correct errors that the Department discovered on its own , and some are in response to comments from the USEPA and from federal land managers .

And all of the changes are in those three

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# 18 pleadings , but for your convenience , we provided you with a consolidated version of that , which is marked as NMED Exhibit 20 , and it should be in your package before you , so you don 't have to flip between the different

-- the different pleadings to review the 309 SIP .

And with that , I would like to move to examination of the witnesses .

MS . ORTH : All right . Swear them , please .

RITA BATES and MARY UHL having been first duly sworn or affirmed , were examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . GRANTHAM :

MR . GRANTHAM : Ms . Bates , please state your

name for the record .

MS . BATES : Rita Bates . MR . GRANTHAM : And where are you employed ? MS . BATES : I'm employed at the Air Quality Bureau of the Environment Department .

MR . GRANTHAM : And what is your position there ? MS . BATES : I'm the Planning and Policy Section chief .

MR . GRANTHAM : And how long have you been in

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# 19

that position ?

MS . BATES : For six years now . MR . GRANTHAM : And what is your educational background ?

MS . BATES : I have a bachelor of science degree in biology from Humboldt State University .

MR . GRANTHAM : And what role did you have in the development of the regional haze SIP ?

MS . BATES : I was the lead person for developing most parts of the SIP , but it was a group project . As you can see , it 's a large document .

MR . GRANTHAM : And did you provide the written testimony that was pre filed and for this notice of intent ? MS . BATES : Yes . And those are Exhibits 9a and 9b. MR . GRANTHAM : And , Ms . Uhl , if you ' ll state your name for the record .

MS . UHL : My name is Mary Uhl . MR . GRANTHAM : And where are you employed ? MS . UHL : I'm employed with the New Mexico Environment Department .

MR . GRANTHAM : And what is your position with the Department ?

MS . UHL : I am the Occupational Health and

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# 20 Safety Bureau chief .

MR . GRANTHAM : How long have you been in that position ? MS . UHL : This is my 29th day in that position . MR . GRANTHAM : What was your previous position , and how long were you in that position ?

MS . UHL : I was the Air Quality Bureau chief for the New Mexico Environment Department . I was in that position for six years .

MR . GRANTHAM : And what role did you have in the development of the regional haze SIP ?

MS . UHL : Well , I -- I actually over saw the development of the regional haze SIP , including the 2003 SIP that was approved by this Board , but prior to that , starting in the mid ' 90 s, worked on modeling issues for the Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission .

I was the Western Regional Air Partnership Modeling Forum co - chair for a number of years , and that modeling developed the basis for the SIPs that the states have brought forward for regional haze for the federal Regional Haze Rule .

MR . GRANTHAM : And did you provide written testimony that was pre filed with the notice of intent ?

MS . UHL : I did , and that is Exhibits 8a, 8b

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# 21

and 8c. MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you .

Ms . Bates , can you briefly explain the distinction between the

-- what has been identified as the 309 SIP revisions and the 309 (g) SIP ?

MS . BATES : Sure . Since December , 2003 , New Mexico 's regional haze plan and regulations approved by the EIB have been enforced by the state , despite EPA 's failure to act on the SIP . Had EPA proposed disapproval of the SIP or dis approved the SIP , New Mexico would have been required to propose changes to regulations or face implementation of a federal plan .

After the 2003 SIP was adopted and submitted to EPA , the Washington , DC circuit case in 2005 invalidated that part of the rule governing the backstop trading program . That 's the SO 2 

## backstop trading program . EPA finalized rules to address the court decision in October of 2006 . Arizona and Oregon then dropped out of the 309 program , and they decided to implement a SIP under Section 308 .

40 CFR 51 . 309 , or Section 309 , applies to Class I areas on the Colorado Plateau . New Mexico has

one Class I area on the Colorado Plateau , and that 's San

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# 22

Pedro Parks Wilderness area .

The EPA indicated to states in the West that the 309 SIPs that were submitted in 2003 were not approvable due to several issues with the voluntary sulfur dioxide emission milestones .

Western states and the City of Albuquerque worked diligently with EPA to negotiate approvable milestones for the program and arrived at an agreement in August of 2010 . At that time , Western states began the process of revising regulations and SIPs through individual state process es , as well as the City of Albuquerque as process .

The proposed revisions to the 309 SIP

-- now , that 's the original SIP that was first approved in 2003

-- are that we revise the SO 2 

## milestones to levels EPA will accept , we demonstrate that the revised milestones satisfy the Best Available Retrofit Technology requirements for sulfur dioxide , we revise the projections of visibility impairment .

And the revisions explained in more detail

--

are explained in more detail in my testimony in Exhibit 9a. It also includes revisions that are shown in Exhibit 10 , submitted with the May 2 nd notice of intent . There are also additional revisions to 28 .2. 81

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# 23

NMAC in response to EPA comments on May 13th . Those are included in Exhibit 14 and were submitted in the May 20th supplemental notice of intent .

The 309 (g) SIP includes all remaining Class I

areas . There are eight additional Class I areas in New Mexico . This section of the rule allows states to take credit for improvements due to the Section 309 strategies .

In doing so , states must meet core requirements , and that is to set reasonable progress goals , have a calculation of baseline and natural conditions , include long

- term strategies to meet those goals , and have a monitoring strategy and meet some other requirements .

The Regional Haze Rule contains numerous specific provisions governing contents of these four

core requirements . My testimony at Exhibit 9b provides

cross - references to the section of the 309 (g) SIP where each element of the rule is satisfied .

There is also a Best Available Retrofit Technology requirement for nitrogen oxide s and particulate matter , and Mary Uhl will discuss this in

more detail .

In summary , all Class I areas are improving on the 20 percent best days except for Carlsbad Caverns

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# 24 National Park . We ' ve looked at that , and it appears as if the growth and emissions from New Mexico that were projected to occur by 2018 are causing us not to improve and actually degrade slightly on the 20 best days .

All of the Class I areas in New Mexico are improving on the 20 percent worst days in 20 18 .

Long - term strategies in the existing 309 SIP , as revised , are sufficient for the other Class I areas .

And I wanted to let you know , as well , that

we ' ll be back before you , because there is another SIP revision due in 2013 . This is a program that continues

on . So we will be back to this Board many times between

now and 20 64 to revise the SIP . And I don 't think we ' ll all be here then .

MR . GRANTHAM : Ms . Bates , did the Department receive any comments from federal agencies on any of these SIP revisions after the petition in this matter

was filed on February 28 ?

MS . BATES : Yes . We received comments from the Forest Service , the EPA , the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service . We also received citizen comments from San Juan Citizens Alliance , and these were submitted to the Board on May 27 th by Western Environmental Law Center , as well .

Comments were also posted on our web site .

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# 25

Our responses to the EPA and Forest Service comments were submitted to the Board on May 20 th in our supplemental NOI . We received the National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service comments on May 25th , and

we have prepared responses to those comments .

We also added the time to meet the natural visibility goal . We already added that . That was one of their comments .

One of their comments was also how did we pick the sources that we looked at for New Mexico for the four

- factor analysis .

And the way we did that , we had done a lot of work in the Four Corners region already on oil and gas and power plant emissions . We felt we had a pretty good handle on what those were , and we ' re continuing to work

on those through the Western Regional Air Partnership , but we just were independent in what the three refineries were looking like and how they were affecting Class I areas .

And they also had a question about long

- term strategies . We think our long

- term strategy does include federal and state programs .

MR . GRANTHAM : And for the Board 's information , the responses the Department prepared to the federal land manager 's requirements

-- excuse me --

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# 26 federal land manager 's comments that we just received last week are before you marked as Exhibit 21 . And that , along with Exhibit 20 , have also been provided to other counsel .

Ms . Uhl , are you familiar with the submissions that Ms . Bates described ?

MS . UHL : Yes . MR . GRANTHAM : And did they include any comments pertaining to the BART determinations for the San Juan Generating Station ?

MS . UHL : Yes . USEPA 's comments point to differences in cost effectiveness and control efficiency between New Mexico Environment Department 's proposed determination and the USEPA proposed determination .

And the federal land managers believe that the BART determination should be selective catalytic reduction , or SCR, as proposed by USEPA , and not SNCR,

as proposed by the Department .

MR . GRANTHAM : And , Ms . Uhl , can you explain why the Department changed its BART determination between the June 20

-- June , 2010 petition and the petition in this matter ?

MS . UHL : In June of 2010 , New Mexico Environment Department proposed selective catalytic reduction , SCR, as Best Available Retrofit Technology

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# 27

for all four units at the San Juan Generating Station .

Since that time , the Department , working closely with the Public Service Company of New Mexico , has determined that the cost increases to ratepayers in New Mexico for the SCR installation would be overly burdensome . The increase is particularly relevant because 40 percent of P NM 's customer s in the state are eligible for federal assistance in paying their utility bills . Federal regulations guiding the BART determination provide discretion to the state to take into consideration all costs of a control technology .

Because of overly burdensome costs to the citizens of New Mexico , New Mexico Environment Department determined that SCR was not actually economically feasible in this state . SNCR is economically and technically feasible . Therefore , it is New Mexico Environment Department 's determination that SNCR is Best Available Retrofit Technology for the San Juan Generating Station .

MR . GRANTHAM : And , Ms . Uhl , why are there differences between NMED 's and EPA 's cost estimates for the BART determination ?

MS . UHL : There are some differences between USEPA 's cost estimates for SCR and NMED 's accepted cost

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# 28 estimates for SCR. The cost discrepancies are the direct result of both USEPA and PNM utilizing different costing methodologies in their analysis , which is allowed by USEPA guidelines .

The guidelines allow costs to be based on USEPA 's what 's called OAQPS Control Cost Manual , as well

as on vendor

- supplied data . As authorized in the guidelines , PNM estimated costs using vendor data . USEPA , on the other hand , estimated costs solely using the Control Cost Manual .

In practice , however , the costs are likely to be somewhat over estimated or conservative using the vendor data and under estimating using the USEPA Control Cost Manual . Therefore , the actual costs are likely somewhere between the two estimates .

Although PNM 's costs may be conservative , the estimates do define the upper bounds of the cost ranges , and the NMED has accepted PNM 's cost analysis as a reasonable estimate of the cost of SCR installation at San Juan Generating Station .

Because New Mexico Environment Department accepts PNM 's estimate , New Mexico Environment Department rejects USEPA 's cost estimate calculations .

MR . GRANTHAM : And for both of you , is there anything in addition you would like to add that I didn 't

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# 29

ask about ? MS . UHL : I respectfully request that the Board adopt these plan and rule revisions at the conclusion of this hearing .

The Department also advises the Board that the proposed revisions may be revised to correct any typographical errors we may find and to reflect formatting changes required by The Administrative Law Division of the New Mexico Commission of Public Records for compilation into the New Mexico Administrative Code .

Thank you for your attention . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you . Madam Hearing Officer , that 's all the questions we have on direct .

I would like to move for admission of Exhibits 1 through 19 as provided in the notice of intent and supplemental notice of intent and Exhibits 20 and 21 as supplied here this morning .

MS . ORTH : All right . Are there objections to the admissions of NMED Exhibits 1 through 21?

Counsel ? MR . ALVIDREZ : No objection on behalf of PNM . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : No objection . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you .

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# 30 They ' re admitted . ( Exhibits NMED 1 through 21 admitted into evidence .) MS . ORTH : Pursuant to our agreement in the teleconference last Tuesday , cross - examination will be conducted in the same order as presentation .

So , Mr . Alvidrez , do you have questions of the Department panel ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : We have no questions . Thank you . MS . ORTH : All right . Mr . Roybal , do you have questions of the Department panel ?

MR . ROYBAL : No questions . MS . ORTH : Okay . Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich , do you have questions ? MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Just a few questions , please . Should I sit up here ?

MS . ORTH : That 's great .

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH :

MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Good morning . I'm Erik Schlenker

- Goodrich with the Western Environmental Law Center , representing NRDC, San Juan

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# 31 Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians .

I just had a couple quick questions about your -- the cost estimates .

And you indicated that the reason for switching from SCR technology in the 2010 proposal by the Department to SNCR was based on what you viewed as

un acceptable ratepayer impacts ?

MS . UHL : ( Nods head .) MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : When you did that cost analysis , did you quantify any of the benefits of enhanced visibility protections that would have been afforded by SCR technology ?

MS . UHL : No , we did not . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Did you quantify any of the enhanced public health benefits that would be provided by SCR technology versus SNCR technology ?

MS . UHL : No , we did not . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Would it be fair to say that the focal point of the cost compliance analysis

was simply ratepayer impacts ?

MS . UHL : That 's correct , the overly burdensome cost to ratepayers .

MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Was there any balancing done in terms of economic impacts regarding public health or enhanced visibility protections , even

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# 32 qualitative analysis ?

MS . UHL : No . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : No further questions . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich . Mr . Rose , I do see you ' ve joined us since I asked for appearances the first time .

Do you have questions of the Department panel ? MR . ROSE : No questions , Madam Hearing Officer . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you .

Does anyone else have a question of the Department panel based on their testimony ?

Board members , do you have questions of the Department panel ? EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MR . CASCIANO : I have a question for Ms . Bates . You mentioned that all Class I areas in the state had been improving in regard to visibility .

And I wondered if you could quantify that at all or if you had any sort of summary information in terms of some of the terms that are used , like deciviews

or -- you know , how would you

-- do you have any information beyond saying that the visibility is

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# 33 improving ? MS . BATES : We do have some tables that do show how visibility has been improving . Now , if I can find those .

In Section 9.2.1 and in 9 -- in Table 9-1, which is in Section 9.2, there is information in here on how visibility

--

MR . CASCIANO : Which exhibit is that ? MS . BATES : That would be what you just received today .

MR . CASCIANO : 20 ? Okay . MS . BATES : Exhibit 20 , I believe . And it would be on pages 55 and 56 . So it 's the 309 (g) SIP .

MR . CASCIANO : 55 and

-- MS . BATES : And 50

-- it goes on from 55 for each Class I area through page 63, but the Table 9-1 summarizes .

MR . CASCIANO : On page 56 ? MS . BATES : On 55. That 's projections . But the actual is shown in the table

-- or the figures , Figure 9-1, 9-2, 3, 4, 5 -- that should be 6 -- oh , 6, 7 and 8.

If you -- the little

-- MR . CASCIANO : So are you comparing the 2004

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# 34 baseline to the 2018 projection or --

MS . BATES : That 's -- MR . CASCIANO : I'm just looking for the basis of your statement that the visibility had been improving in the Class I areas in New Mexico .

MS . BATES : We project improvement , and we -- actually , we do show in these figures for the last

-- from 2005 through 2009 , the last four years , if you look at the pollutants , they do show in most cases improvement . It doesn 't show here the actual deciview values for these , but

--

MR . CASCIANO : So those are the line graph

-- MS . BATES : Yes . MR . CASCIANO : -- tables ? MS . BATES : Yes . MR . CASCIANO : Okay . MS . BATES : And those points are actually actual data , monitoring data from 2005 through 2009 .

MR . CASCIANO : Where you see more variation in the lines ? MS . UHL : If I may , if you look on the next page , page 57 , and you look at , for instance , particulate organic mass , the green line , you do see significant reductions at Bosque del Apache over the last five years .

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# 35

MS . BATES : Yes . MS . UHL : So some pollutants we are seeing improvements , some pollutants we are seeing degradation . It really depends on the pollutant . So

--

But the program is rather young . This is a program that extends through the year 20 64. So the state has a lot of time to show improvements in visibility as the program proceeds .

MR . CASCIANO : Thank you . MS . BATES : And Table 9-1 shows that we project improvement on the worst days in all areas for 20 18 . MR . CASCIANO : Based on the se --

MS . UHL : That 's based on -- no . That is based on modeling of all controls that will take place throughout the West , controls we expect to be enacted , federal , state controls .

MR . CASCIANO : So it doesn 't differentiate between the future controls for the San Juan Generating Station or --

MS . UHL : It doesn 't go into that kind of detail . No .

MS . BATES : This includes controls in other states , as well . So it 's the projection of all the Western states and

-- and also Eastern states , because

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# 36 they also impact visibility in Class I areas . This is a regional program . So these projections include not just the region , but also outside of the region , including emissions from Mexico , Pacific off shore , things like that . MR . CASCIANO : Okay .

Thank you . That clarifies . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? MR . VOLKERDING : I' ve got a couple , and they bounce around , so I apologize .

The first one kind of follows up on Mr . Casciano 's.

I had noticed in Exhibit 2 that the EPA -- is that EPA is proposing to dis approve the New Mexico SIP , da

- da

- da

- da , because of the good neighbor requirements .

So I was just curious

-- that 's out of the Federal Register . How -- what about the other states ? I mean , have all the surrounding states had their SIPs approved by EPA , that you know of ?

MS . UHL : No . MR . VOLKERDING : No ? MS . UHL : In fact , that is not the case . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . UHL : Only some states are -- were named in this litigation .

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# 37

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . I see . All right . And do you happen to know the status of the Federal Implementation Plan for the Navajo tribe ?

MS . UHL : On

-- on regional haze ? MR . GRANTHAM : Four Corners . MR . VOLKERDING : Yeah , for Four Corners . MS . UHL : For Four Corners , the BART ? MR . VOLKERDING : Yeah . MS . UHL : It 's still in

-- it 's still in proposal . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay .

MS . UHL : There has not been a final yet . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . PEACOCK : With your question , there were how many states , four or five states , in the consent decree ? Have any of those had SIPs approved ?

MS . UHL : I know that Colorado has submitted their SIP . I don 't know that it 's been approved yet .

MS . BATES : I don 't know either . I -- EPA has

a longer timeline to approve than we have to submit , it feels like sometimes .

MR . VOLKERDING : And this may be a better question for PNM , but I' ll start with you .

Looking through a lot of the technical documents , there was a debate between EPA and NMED and

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# 38

PNM on the fuel at the San Juan Generating Station , whether it was considered bituminous or subbituminous .

And I just

-- was that ever resolved ? I mean , was there ever an agreement , or --

MS . UHL : The Department determined that it

was a subbituminous

--

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . UHL : -- classification , and that

-- that is how the BART determination has proceeded .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . That 's what it looked like , but I guess I never -- there was a lot to read , so I apologize if that was --

MS . UHL : Right . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . And then in terms of accepting PNM 's cost , is there

-- you know , it is to their advantage to propose

as high a cost as possible .

So is there any backstop or any follow

- up once all of the work is done to show that they were close , or how does that work ?

MS . UHL : There is no provision of the federal rule that requires

--

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . UHL : -- a follow

- up at the end to determine the costs . All the

-- all the cost estimates

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# 39

are done prior to installation .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . UHL : It could be useful information for the future , of course , but once the controls are in place , there wouldn 't be some -- if you ' re -- if your question is would at some point PNM have to take the controls off and put on different controls

--

MR . VOLKERDING : Yeah . I don 't know what exact ly -- I don 't know what the ramification would be . I was just kind of curious .

MS . UHL : Yeah . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . And then there was a section

-- Section 8.4 of the SIP , and this is just a confusing statement . It says that area emission s growth was based on EPA model that was subsequently withdrawn by EPA .

MS . BATES : Yes . MR . VOLKERDING : Why was it withdrawn , and then

-- but we ' re still relying on that

-- the model . So I just kind of wanted to hear a little bit about that . MS . BATES : Yes . Unfortunately , the timing

was such that by the time this was done

-- and remember this wasn 't just done for New Mexico . This was done for all Western states by the Western Regional Air

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# 40 Partnership through a contract with the contractor at probably a very high cost .

By the time it was done , then EPA withdrew the model . So it was kind of too late . And the EPA determined that it really over predicted . So we wanted to make it clear that the area source growth is likely

over predicted . And you will notice in some of the bar charts , it really shows those area sources growing over time . Also , as you ' re all aware , you know , in the last few years , we haven 't had the kind of growth that

we might have expected six years ago . So models are only good for , you know , the time that you ' re using them , the data that you have . They change over time . And that is one that did change .

MS . UHL : However , since we are projecting improvement on the worst days with this conservative estimate

-- over estimate of area source growth

--

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . UHL : -- it only adds conservatism to our analysis . So it isn 't as if we are going to have to redo this because of the area source modeling or anything like that .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . That 's all I had . MR . BRYCE : I have one question .

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# 41

In your source analysis and your modeling , did NMED use any base lines that were in excess of the minimum EPA requirements , or what the SIP plan would be requiring ? MS . UHL : I believe you ' re asking did the Department make assumptions about rules that might not be required by federal regulations ? Is that where you ' re -- in our baseline ?

MR . BRYCE : In your baselines , yeah . MS . UHL : Right . MR . BRYCE : What were your baselines , and did they result in any working SIP that is

-- goes -- brings New Mexico beyond what the federal standards would be ?

MS . UHL : The simple answer is no . The baselines simply took into account federal and state rules that were already in place .

MR . BRYCE : Okay . Thank you . MS . PEACOCK : I have a question back to the consent decree .

Did the judge approve that extension to August ? MR . GRANTHAM : He did , yes .

MS . UHL : ( Nods head .) MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? MR . FULFER : Did the EPA cost analysis

-- did

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# 42 it include costs associated with building the building

on an existing site versus like this going out and building new ? Did they base their cost on going and retrofitting an existing site ?

MS . UHL : We -- that 's the USEPA cost estimate , and we did not conduct a rigorous engineering analysis of EPA 's cost estimate . So we can 't comment on that . MR . CASCIANO : Did your cost analysis contain the operational cost ? I know you had a capital cost , but are there operational costs that are also

--

MS . UHL : Yes . Those are included in the

-- MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? Or are you -- you ' re looking for the answer . MS . UHL : Do you want me to tell you where that is in the

--

MR . CASCIANO : Sure . MS . UHL : -- in the submit tal ? Let me find it . MR . BRYCE : We ' ve got one copy of -- I'm not

sure if that 's in Exhibit 7d.

MS . UHL : In Appendix D, Table 11 -- Table s 10 and 11, includes the

-- it 's the impact analysis and cost effectiveness of additional NO x 

## control technologies and additional particulate matter control technologies

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# 43

in that table in the total annualized costs .

MR . CASCIANO : So it included both ? MS . UHL : Yes . MR . CASCIANO : And does EPA have any guidance for how you evaluate cost ?

MS . UHL : Yes . USEPA has the Control Cost Manual . But that manual also allows you to use vendor data . MR . CASCIANO : Yeah . I understood that it allows you to consider cost , but I didn 't understand the criteria whether there were specific goals where

-- you know , above a certain dollar amount per ton of pollutant

was acceptable , and if it was less , then a certain dollar amount per ton of control was not acceptable .

MS . UHL : Oh , I see , Board Member Casciano . I understand your question , I believe , to be what is the cutoff of what 's a reasonable cost per ton of pollutant

re moved , and

--

MR . CASCIANO : Correct . MS . UHL : -- and there is no bright line on that . MR . CASCIANO : This is what my understanding

--

MS . UHL : It 's at the discretion of the state or at the discretion of whoever is making the

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# 44 determination .

You can use historical data

-- MR . CASCIANO : Right . MS . UHL : -- to look at what 's been accepted , but there is no bright line .

MR . CASCIANO : Thank you . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? MR . FULFER : Do you feel that the -- I know you looked at several technologies on this , but how do you feel the technology is , how is it catching up with coal , and how -- I guess the question is is technology catching up and becoming feasible for implementation in clean coal ?

MS . UHL : Board Member Fulfer , there 's certainly a lot of re search being done into improving control technologies for coal

- fired power plants , and that is a continuous work .

Certainly what we have before us , the range of options that were reviewed in this BART determination is very robust . There is

-- there is a lot to choose from here . And I do believe that technology will continue to evolve over time . But at this time , the technologies

are very good for improving

-- or for reducing emissions from coal

- fired power plants .

MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ?

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# 45

Mr . Grantham , do you have any follow

- up ? MR . GRANTHAM : Just a couple , Madam Hearing Officer . REDIRECT EXAMINATION

MR . GRANTHAM : And either of you can answer this , if you can .

Does the guidelines for the BART determination , Appendix Y of Part 51

-- does it require consideration or quantification of benefits as part of the BART determination ?

MS . UHL : Can you clarify what kind of

-- MR . GRANTHAM : Benefits such as the economic value of visibility improving or health values of

-- that are a side effect of the visibility improvement .

MS . UHL : No , it does not . MR . GRANTHAM : It does not require that ? MS . UHL : It does not require that . MR . GRANTHAM : Does it allow for that or specifically mention that ?

MS . UHL : I don 't believe it mentions that . No . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you .

And regarding the

-- the question about cost cutoffs or what is a reasonable cost , if you ' re able , can you -- can you give a range of the costs that

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# 46

under lie the technologies that EPA was looking at as presumptive standards for BART , presumptive emission limits for BART ?

MS . UHL : I think I can give a general range

on that . As far as getting to presumptive limits , plants in the US that have looked at meeting presumptive limits , the costs might be anywhere from $ 800 per ton

re moved to about $2, 000 , $3, 000 ton

-- per ton re moved . But that 's certainly just a ballpark . It 's not a hard and fast number . But generally that 's the range that I' ve seen from the BART determinations I' ve looked at .

MR . GRANTHAM : Okay . Thank you . No more questions . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you very much . Is there any reason not to excuse the Department panel ?

Hearing none , thank you very much . Let 's turn now -- if the Board would like a break , this is a good time , or we can turn to accepting public comment .

MS . PEACOCK : Let 's do

-- does anybody need a break ? Public is fine .

MS . ORTH : We ' re all right ?

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# 47 All right . We ' re going to turn now from the technical case to accept some public comment .

I have the first four sign

- in sheets . I will call you in the order in which you signed in if you indicated that you 'd like to give public comment .

Please sign in if you haven 't done so . No salesmen will call . We use the sign

- in sheets as evidence of public participation and for the correct spelling of your name for the

-- for the transcript .

You can change your mind . If you indicated that you didn 't want to make public comment and now you do , that 's fine . If you said that you did and now you didn 't, that 's fine , as well .

And as I said , you are certainly welcome to submit your public comment in writing .

Comment is taken under oath , and the Board may have questions of you .

Because we have not hordes of people , I will not pull out my stopwatch with the three

- minute timer . I will ask you to keep your comments under five minutes . There are a couple dozen folks who want to speak .

So Carla Sonntag . MS . SONNTAG : I have written comments , too . Should I give them to you ? MS . ORTH : Yes , please .

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# 48

Thank you . MS . SONNTAG : Thank you .

CARLA SONNTAG having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . SONNTAG : Yes . Carla Sonntag , C-A-R-L-A S-O-N-N-T-A-G.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . SONNTAG : Good morning . My name is Carla Sonntag . I'm the executive director of the New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance . And I'm here to talk to you today about Case Number EIB 11-01, the regional haze proposal at San Juan . The New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance represents about 7, 000 people , shareholders of gas and electric utility companies operating in the state . The vast majority of those are PNM shareholders . But something that 's important to keep in mind , they ' re also ratepayers . And I am here today to urge you to please adopt the State Implementation Plan as proposed by the

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# 49

New Mexico Environmental Department .

NMUSA supports clean air and good visibility , but much has already been accomplished at this plant in regards to both of those initiatives . PNM spent $ 320 million in 2009 on environmental up grades to reduce pollutants and improve visibility in the region .

In combination with what 's being proposed with the SCNR, we believe that you ' re going to have -- I'm sorry -- the SNCR technology at the plant , it will address the cost effectiveness requirements of the federal regulations with respect to haze reduction and technology costs .

It 's going to further improve visibility . It will lower NO x 

## emissions by 4, 900 tons per year . This would be a total of 54 percent reduction of NO x 

## when combined with the 2009 up grade .

The state plan will also reduce the cost of required up grades significantly from the federal proposal for the selective catalytic reduction technology .

An internal survey of our members showed that the vast majority are retirees on a fixed income . Over 72 percent are 65 years or older , and 47 percent of them have an annual income of less than $ 50 , 000 .

Our members support the state 's plan because

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# 50 it provides balance between minimizing costs and protecting the environment .

I want to thank you for your consideration , and I hope you ' ll give serious consideration to all the elements of the two proposals , and keep in mind the impact on ratepayers in the third poorest state in the nation . Thank you .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Sonntag . Board , I'm not going to invite questions every time . If you would , if you have a question , please speak up . James and Donna Crawford . JAMES CRAWFORD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name . MR . CRAWFORD : James Crawford , J-A-M-E-S C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . CRAWFORD : Madam Chairman and EIB Board members , I'm willing to take the blame from Felicia , but I wasn 't the one -- I wasn 't the one you wrote to , so --

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# 51

anyway , just to make that straight .

I'm James Crawford , I'm from Los Lunas , New Mexico . And I'm just an interested citizen representing myself . I, in fact , read the hundreds of pages of material in this case that contained enough charts , tables , graphs and impressive mathematical formulas to make one 's head spin .

It really is a dazzling display of pseudo science , but when one cuts through all of the mush , the question is is there any logical common sense result ? And I'd have to say I think not .

This hearing is about visibility . This is a visibility rule , haze rule , in Class I federal wilderness and national park areas .

So how is visibility measured ? Visibility is measured with a deciview , one deciview representing the change in visibility that 's perceptible to the human eye . More deciviews mean more haze . There 's probably a hundred of them over Santa Fe this morning . Zero deciviews mean no haze .

So if the deciviews change is less than 1, who

cares ? No one can tell the difference .

Now , the only action item being considered in this plan is which technology is going to be mandated

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# 52

for the San Juan Generating Station .

You know , the owners of San Juan have spent millions , about $ 320 million on already cleaning up the air . Now they ' re being asked to spend as much as a billion dollars more . This additional obscene amount of money is being spent to achieve no noticeable change in visibility . The benefit / cost ratio for this project is

zero . Other than paying my bill to PNM each month , I have no allegiance to the owners of San Juan . However , I do resent them spending millions of dollars that would be passed on to us ratepayers for zero benefit .

Analysis of the economic effects of this proposal are virtually nonexistent . Please remember that this plan is about visibility only . EPA -- EIB is being used as a pawn in an overt fight to close San Juan Generating Station .

You ' re going to hear from a number of sources throughout this hearing that openly advocate for closing San Juan . You ' re going to hear rants about things from disease epidemics to global warming as justifications for ever increasing and ever more expensive restrictions on San Juan just to bring it to its knees .

These arguments are un related to visibility . You must stay focused on whether the massive investments

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# 53 yield any perceptible improvement in visibility .

Unfortunately , you ' re being presented with a no win situation . NMED has proposed a plan costing over $ 77 million to achieve less than one - fourth of one perceptible unit of improvement in visibility . You ' re being blackmailed to approve the proposed plan . If you don 't approve the NMED plan , a worse plan preferred by USEPA is the only alternative , costing as much as a billion dollars .

Choosing the least damaging of two

un reasonable and ineffective alternatives is insane . A competent analysis should include all reasonable alternatives , including not taking any action at all .

Will visibility change if the proposed action is not implemented ? The answer is a definite no . There will be no perceptible change in visibility . But there will be a perceptible change in everyone 's electric bills . Thank you very much . That 's kind of my summary . I have more detail that I submitted in writing , and I can give a written

-- maybe you already have mine . MS . ORTH : ( Shakes head .)

MR . CRAWFORD : No ? I don 't have eight .

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# 54

MS . ORTH : Thank you so much . Judith Williams . MS . WILLIAMS : Madam Chair

-- THE REPORTER : Would you raise your right hand , please . JUDY WILLIAMS having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you please state and spell your full name .

MS . WILLIAMS : Judy Williams , J-U-D-Y W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . WILLIAMS : I represent the League of Women Voters of New Mexico .

Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you today . We already submitted a letter in writing . I have , unfortunately , only two extra copies . But if any of you are interested in having it passed around , I'd love to have you read it , and I hope you will later .

The League of Women Voters of the United States advocated for the Clean Air Act and has been pressing for its full implementation ever since . This

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# 55 advocacy included strengthening air pollution controls

on government and industry , notwithstanding the higher prices and taxes that might result .

The EIB is required by law to consider the human and environmental health impacts , the public interest , including social and economic factors , beyond the narrow interests of the power company , and make a thorough and objective analysis of the costs and effectiveness of its proposals .

This has not been done . The League of Women Voters of New Mexico understands that the Department 's recommendation in 2010 included the selective catalytic reduction , or SCR, technology consistent with EPA 's proposed Federal Implementation Plan , but it is not -- the Department is

now reverse course and supports a technology which will result in a significant increase in nitrous

-- nitrogen oxide emissions over the SCR.

The League is troubled by the Department 's about

- face in this matter , raising significant concerns about whether the Department is adequately considering the public 's interest in the promulgation of the revised haze rule . Without a compelling explanation of why the SNCR technology is in the public interest , the League of

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# 56

Women Voters of New Mexico urges the EIB to reject the Department 's proposed revisions to the haze rule . The League supports the SCR technology and urges the EIB and the Department to disregard the self

- serving cost estimates provided by the industry .

New Mexicans deserve a complete explanation from the Department about why its new found support for the SNCR is in the public 's interest .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Williams . Lisa Law . LISA LAW having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name . MS . LAW : Lisa , L-I-S-A, Law , L-A-W.

Board members and people in the audience , I lived here 44 years , and I' ve watched what 's happened to

our air and our -- a lot what 's happened in Los Alamos , and of the promises that we were made to keep our state clean . I'm looking for our state to be an example for other states . At this point at Los Alamos , we are now

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# 57

about to have more triggers built for atomic bombs , $ 400 million , I think , at the facility . This is after

we were promised to reduce nuclear triggers .

I think that we should take the money that is spent at Los Alamos and develop proper solar and wind generation for our energy and stop using coal , which is dirty . This about cleaning up the air , visibility , it 's all a bunch of cover - up . I think we have to use our money , the taxpayers ' money , to properly develop solar and wind energy .

I am -- I have a house in Embudo , which is totally off the grid . I provide enough energy to facilitate the ranch , and I have for the last 16 years .

So I think , as Mr . Crawford said , you ' re going to hear from a lot of people . I liked what he had to say , that we should use our money and stop using coal al together , which is dirty .

Also , you have to get coal through strip

- mining . We ' ve watched what 's happen ed to the Indians when they strip

- mine d at Big Mountain . We

re located over 10 , 000 Indians and wrecked their lives . They became alcoholics . The elders died . The Indians

are not being thought about when it comes to coal .

So I think we should get rid of coal totally and develop

-- because we have a lot of sun , we have a

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# 58

lot of wind , as you noticed this month and last month and the month before , that we can provide enough energy for this state and be an example for other states of how

we can have clean energy from now on in the future .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Law . Bruce Madden .

BRUCE MADDEN having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name . MR . MADDEN : Bruce , B-R-U-C-E, Madden , M-A-D-D-E-N.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . MADDEN : I first moved to this state in 19 69 , and one of the first things I did was go to the Sandia Peak . And I was awestruck at the pristine quality of the air , at the views from the Magdalenas up to the San Juans . Fell in love , been here ever since .

That 's not there anymore . I go there often . That 's long gone . So we ' re passed that . Maybe my grandkids will have that view again some day , but not if

we continue to misunderstand costs .

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# 59

We ' re talking -- I heard reference to visibility as being the issue . Well , the visibility problem is created by particles that are made up of various substances . And those particles are just clearly not good for humans to breathe . So if you want to discuss business climate , you might want to first start by discussing the human climate .

I did hear that no health considerations were made when estimating the costs involved in choosing the various technologies . That 's patently foolish . The Four Corners Generating Station is , I believe , about the 12 th worst in the country for mercury production . Mercury is clearly a poison . We all know it .

When I hear costs , I also hear nothing about jobs and revenue streams . Now , if there is cost to make improvements , that 's not throwing bagful of money into the

-- into the boiler and burning it up . That 's contractors , that 's engineers , that 's all kinds of technicians .

And by the way , I'm a retired computer engineer . There are people building pumps and all kinds of equipment across the country that can use those jobs . Those people pay taxes . Those revenues will come into the state . So I doubt that those benefits , the benefits

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# 60

of the jobs , have been considered either .

I' ve heard mention of technology and emerging technologies and improvements in technology . Well , I am all for developing technologies and have been involved in all kinds of technology developments , but technology is not useful unless it is implemented . And you folks

are the folks that make the decisions to implement technologies that are available .

And those benefits flow to not only people in this state , but people across the country , and people

across the country do need those jobs . And if we lead in these areas , rather than race to the bottom with some of the other states , we will reap those benefits in the long run . And when I think of my daughters , that 's what I'm thinking , in the long run .

A few weeks ago , I drove my daughter back from graduating from college , and we crossed the Mojave Desert . There 's an enormous facility that 's built out there , and it 's almost done , and it 's built in under four years , and it will generate as much power as a very large coal plant , except that the source of that energy

are photons from the sun , and it is also a cost - effective plant .

Why aren 't we starting to think in those directions ? Maybe keep what we have as long as we need

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# 61 it , and keep it as clean as we can , but think ahead , not just to a year out , two years out .

I think that 's pretty much what I have to say . Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Madden . Ellen Caldwell . Marlene Perrotte .

MARLENE PERROTTE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . PERROTTE : Marlene , M-A-R-L-E-N-E, Perrotte , P- as - in

- Peter -E-R-R-O-T-T-E.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . PERROTTE : You ' re welcome . Good morning . These are ominous times . And our planet today is speaking loud and clear to all of us about our air , our water and our soil , the very existence of our planet . And I come here as a sister of mercy , living and working in Albuquerque , New Mexico . I testify on behalf of all the children who celebrate today and for

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# 62

all who will be born , for they are beloved children of God and deserve clean air , clean water and a strong healthy community that looks to the future , not to the past , not to agreed , not to money for stockholders .

I'm here because burning coal is a moral issue . The Four Corners Power Plant is one of the nation 's dirtiest . Coal is a dirty and dangerous fuel

source , and burning coal is in direct conflict with religious values of stewardship , sustainability , justice and respect for life .

The carbon emissions , the toxic mercury and haze generated by burning coal all have far

- reaching health effects . At some moment , we must say no to dirty coal

- fired plants and the problems they are creating for health , the environment and climate change , especially for our brothers and sisters throughout the planet who

are suffering extreme droughts . And that is here in New Mexico . People suffering from the floods and the disruption of food production .

Coal

- fired plants are a major part of the endangerment of the life support systems for all that God created for all people . It is the poor and often indigenous people who have contributed least to this problem , who will suffer the most .

Inaction cannot be an option . Money spent to

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# 63

extend the life of the remaining two units of this power plant might be used better to move toward a clean energy future . We must transition to clean energy sources that support life . As we transition to clean energy , we must work to re mediate and restore the land and communities that have been degraded and economically exploited from coal mining .

We support programs to provide job training , to displace coal workers and restoration of degraded lands . Each of us needs to speak truth even though it is not accepted within the current re ality . Today our world is in need of a radical change , and a transition to clean energy is part of this change .

Now , I went to the hearing in Farmington , and the EPA had a slide presentation , and there was a map that showed the extension of the pollution . I could not get that map , but I do refer you to this map . It was the slide presentation that was given , the overview of EPA proposals for Four Corners Power Plant .

And it was just the San Juan . And I think if you could super impose , the

-- the radius goes all the way through Albuquerque , et cetera , from Farmington -- I mean from the Four Corners .

So please , do not compromise our future . We look to you to protect us from the public sovereignty of

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# 64

our resources . We must stop and put -- and challenge us to the highest level , not to the most compromising , base level . Greed cannot be the element that drives this decision . Hold us to the highest level of technology that 's possible .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Perrotte . Joan Brown . JOAN BROWN having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you please state and spell your full name .

MS . BROWN : Sister Joan Brown , J-O-A-N B-R-O-W-N. THE REPORTER : Thank you .

MS . BROWN : Good morning . And thank you for hearing our comments as public concerned citizens .

My name is Sister Joan Brown . I'm a Franciscan , and I'm the executive director of New Mexico Inter Faith Power and Light , an organization of faith communities all across the state that work on creation

care , specifically concerned with climate change and how

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# 65

that affects us in New Mexico and our brothers and sisters throughout the planet . We see this as a moral , ethical and a spiritual concern .

The whole issue of haze we ' re addressing today really , I think , is a superficial indicator of other grave concerns of pollution and of emissions that are causing many other things . So I think that we need to address this on a deeper level .

Yesterday in Albuquerque Journal , in A Diary on the Planet , there was a little piece I thought was interesting , and it stated that the dramatic swings between very wet , very dry and catastrophically stormy weather are likely to be the norm from now on , according to scientists who point to an over all warmer global climate as the source of new meteorological re ality .

And this is a quote . " It is a new normal , and I really do think that global weirding is the best way to describe what

-- what we ' re seeing ."

Now , you might think this is from somebody off the charts , but it was not . It was a climate scientist , Katherine Hayhoe , from Texas Tech University , not from someplace in the East Coast or the West Coast . She was meeting with business people who were quite concerned about this issue , and they were trying to see how they could address the implications of all of this pollution

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# 66

and what it was causing with the climate and weather patterns . So this is a localized issue , but it 's also an international issue . And as a member at -- and the member and partner faith communities of New Mexico Inter Faith Power and Light believe that the current technology of burning coal to produce electricity carries huge societal costs around air and water pollution and is one of the most significant drivers of climate disruption . These external costs are not captured in the price of coal power .

Every step of the current coal

- fired process is dangerous to human health , from mining and process ing to burning and storage of the waste ash . And those most often impacted by these dangerous process es are the most vulnerable members of our communities , the poor , the elderly and the children .

And I think it 's interesting to note that Washington State , with the help of the InterFaith Power Light businesses and other organizations , just close d a coal

- fired power plant through their legislative process . We at NMIPL support strong standards to reduce the emission from coal

- fired power plants because it 's a matter of health , haze , health , and the long

- term future of the planet .

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# 67

The proposed 2010 EPA implement ation of safeguards to reduce pollution by 80 percent was supported by New Mexico Environmental Department in 20 10 , and we at NMIPL are rather dismayed that NMED is considering weakening these safeguards at the San Juan Generating Station from that 80 percent reduction to a 20 percent reduction .

As faith leaders devoted to the common good , we are opposed to this change and do not understand the justification for it . Some might argue that implementing the original goals would be too costly , but pollution is already exacting an enormous cost from the people of our state and our brothers and sisters everywhere , in terms of health and quality of life .

Our faith communities provide support to the economically poor through our food pantries , with energy assistance , emergency assistance , and we will continue to be those people out there aiding and walking with our brothers and sisters .

But we have a moral responsibility to protect the air that has been given to us by the creator and to safeguard the present and the future health of infants and children and the value which we cannot calculate in dollars and cents .

The Pontifical Academy of Sciences , appointed

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# 68 by Pope Benedict of the Vatican , recently publish ed a report in which they said , " We appeal to all nations to develop and implement , without delay , effective and fair policies to reduce the causes and impacts of climate change on communities and ecosystems , including mountain glaciers and their watersheds , aware that we all live in the same home ."

The report further said , " We are committed to ensuring that all inhabitants of this planet receive their daily bread , fresh air to breathe and clean water to drink as we are aware of that , we want justice and peace , and we must protect the habitat that sustains

us ." End of quote , from the Pontifical Academy of Sciences of the Vatican .

So in conclusion , we are people of hope . We believe in life , and we believe that we need to protect life , from conception until death . And we recognize that the transition to clean energy is complex and requires financial investments , but we have great faith in the ingenuity and leadership and moral integrity of

our government leaders and business executives and the citizens of New Mexico .

If we spent funds on renewables , the cost s would decrease . In one way or another , we are going to have to spend money to get ourselves out of the

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# 69 situation that we ' re in . We believe that we can come together despite the challenges to move t owards a clean energy economy and a healthy future for our children and

our grandchildren , and it is a moral , ethical and a justice imperative .

And I will submit to you all electronically a letter that 's being signed by faith leaders throughout the state , which include Episcopal Bishop Vaughan , Reverend Donna McNiel who is the director of New Mexico Conference of Churches , the New Mexico Inter Faith Power and Light b oard and directors , Reverend Holly Beaumont who is the organizing director for Inter faith Worker Justice , and numerous pastors who are Catholic , Mennonite , Presbyterian , Methodists and others throughout the state .

So I thank you for your attention this day . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Brown . Juan Reynosa .JUAN REYNOSA having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you please state and spell your full name .

MR . REYNOSA : Juan Reynosa , J-U-A-N

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# 70

R-E-Y-N-O-S-A.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . REYNOSA : Hello , all . Thank you all for giving me this chance to

come up here and give a comment today . I' ve been working a lot on this issue , so I appreciate the time today . My name is Juan Reynosa , and I'm an organizer with the Sierra Club here in New Mexico based out of Albuquerque . I' ve been heavily involved within the EPA regional haze process that 's been going on for both San Juan Generating Station , as well as Four Corners Power Plant more recently .

During this time , being a part of these hearings , I saw numerous people commenting on the effects of haze in the region , many people who have lived there for decades commenting about the thick , yellow smoke that goes along the San Juan River and how that has affected people for generations . Many people have noticed impacts to this .

Many people talked about the impacts upon the tourism department , which , as you know , New Mexico is a very rural state , with a lot of beautiful , natural landscape , so we definitely rely heavily on this as a

revenue stream within New Mexico . So that is definitely

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# 71

one thing to consider as we look at these Class I areas that are affected by the haze from San Juan Generating Station . And to reference what Marlene was talking about with the map of the regional haze areas that were affected , that map showed 16 Class I areas . And I will also note that one of my Navajo Coalition partners noticed that there are also six Navajo

- designated environmental areas within that radius that are also affected that hadn 't been noted .

So yes , it does affect people through the haze , but I also saw many testimonies from grandparents talking about their grandchildren , waking up in the middle of the night with asthma attacks , to also young teenagers talking about growing up and seeing how many of their friends in Farmington have contracted asthma .

So while many will say this is only about regional haze , there have definitely been scientific links between the ground level smog , which is caused by NO x 

## emissions , and the health impacts on that . So I would definitely like to note that , that many people in the area have noted that during the hearings , and you could reference those notes to see many of those testimonies .

As a Sierra Club representative , we would like

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# 72

to see the best available technology installed on the San Juan Generating Station to decrease emissions of nitrogen oxide s. We feel this technology is selective catalytic reduction and not the selective non catalytic reduction that the state and PNM are proposing .

We think that with this EPA proposal , that we

are starting to realize the true cost of coal . San Juan Generating Station had one retrofit in 2009 , but before that , they had not had any in the past . Four Corners , as well , is also lacking in that .

So I think when we talk about in terms of cost , we are talking about realizing the true costs of coal . They ' ve been getting off easy , and now they ' re having to pay and be accountable for the pollution that they ' ve emitted .

We also think the state should be taking into account other viable data into the recommendation instead of basing their proposal sole ly on data provided by PNM . P NM is , obviously , a biased party in this , since they are the majority owner of the plant , and thus would have to pay the majority of the cost s.

Yet we see that the EPA has proposed numbers that are definitely significantly lower than what the state has proposed . They put that in both their BART proposal for the San Juan Generating Station , and as was

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# 73

noted during the presentation , they also sent a letter to you all and the Environment Department again noting those numbers and the big discrepancy between costs .

We still hold true that the cost of

-- for SCR is cost effective and necessary . And again , as someone just noted , it will also be opportunity for jobs . We -- many people are looking at this as something that 's taking away from the community . We should also look at this as an opportunity .

This is bringing jobs in not only through retro fits , but it also brings an opportunity to start transitioning over to renewables . Many people in that

area are also looking towards opportunities in that . And I would guess if you could ask a PNM ratepayer if they were able to get a job out of this , would they be willing to also pay a little bit more , and many people in this area are in need of jobs , and so there is an opportunity that many people would not want to pass up .

So this proposal needs to take more into account , as well as I referenced the health impacts , from the tourism impacts , how much dollars we get from that . So while PNM also uses the

-- and the state is using the excuse that this is a big impact on ratepayers , we are also seeing that there 's a current

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# 74

rate case going on with PNM right now , and I don 't necessarily see them using that excuse when they ' re using

-- when they ' re asking for a rate increase from their ratepayers .

So in conclusion , myself and the 6, 000

- plus members of Sierra Club in New Mexico stand in opposition of this state SIP proposal and instead still stand behind the cost - effective and just proposal of the EPA to install SCR controls on the San Juan Generating Station . Thank you for your time .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Reynosa . Virginia Miller . Is Ms . Miller here ? MS . NOEL : Are you saying Sue Noel ? MS . ORTH : Virginia Miller . MS . MILLER : Yeah , right here .

VIRGINIA MILLER having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . MILLER : My name is Virginia J. Miller , and I'm a resident of Santa Fe , New Mexico .

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# 75

Thank you for listening , members of the Board and the community .

Please strengthen the New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board plan to reduce nitrogen oxide and other harmful pollutants at the San Juan coal plant in Northwest New Mexico to at least match the current EPA plan , which is much stronger . It is way past time to take curbing global warming seriously and create conditions for health of both our people and environment .

Clean energy alternatives exist . Develop them . The San Juan coal plant emissions are a big contributor to the harsh realities of climate change and health problems , asthma , emphysema and other respiratory diseases , and even pre mature death .

People leave polluted areas , urban areas to visit New Mexico 's beautiful national parks , hoping to find clean air to breathe . I moved to New Mexico to find cleaner air to breathe .

So I'm asking you to please recommend pollution reductions equal to the current EPA plan or stronger . Thank you .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Miller . Those are the names of the folks who both

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# 76 signed in and put a check or X in the Yes column . There will be

-- thank you .

There will be other opportunities to offer public comment . I' ll invite public comment at the end of every party 's -- technical party 's presentation .

Is there anyone else who must give comment this morning before we take a break ?

No ? Thank you . Board , are we ready for a break ? MS . PEACOCK : Yes . MS . ORTH : Thank you . Let 's take 15 minutes . ( Proceedings in recess from 11:08 a.m. to 11:27 a.m. ) MS . ORTH : All right , folks . Let 's come back from the break , please .

Before the break , we completed the Department 's presentation and also accepted several public commenters .

We turn now to the presentation by the Public Service Company of New Mexico .

Mr . Alvidrez . MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes . Thank you , Madam Hearing Examiner , Madam Chairman , members of the Board .

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# 77 My name is Rick Alvidrez , and I'm the attorney for Public Service Company of New Mexico , PNM , in this

case . And I have a very few brief opening remarks that I hope will aid the Board in its consideration of the matters before it today and for the next couple of days . As you know , we ' re here to consider a regulation on regional haze . And I think it 's important to note that that really is the focus in terms of this Board 's assessment of the adequacy of the NMED proposal , that is does this meet the federal requirements under the federal Regional Haze Rule .

There certainly has been a lot of discussion about other matters , health

- related effects and what have you , but those matters are really not before the Board . The question before the Board is does this regulation meet the requirements .

And , of course , PNM has submitted testimony in this case to support the measures that the NMED is proposing with respect to the San Juan Generating Station , which is a generating station at issue in this

case , not the Four Corners Generating Station which has been referred to by some commenters .

In our case , we will be supporting the NMED

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# 78 position and presenting testimony of Patrick Themig , who is vice

- president of generation . Mr . Themig will talk about PNM a little bit , provide some overview about San Juan , its importance to New Mexico as an electric supplier , as well as its economic importance to the Four Corners area .

Mr . Themig will also talk about the recent environmental up grades that PNM has under taken at San Juan at the cost of in excess of $ 300 million and the positive benefits in terms of air emissions that have resulted from those up grades and that investment by the San Juan owners .

And he will also talk about why PNM supports the NMED proposal , BART proposal with respect to San Juan . We ' ll also be presenting Gerard Ortiz , who is executive director of New Mexico retail services for Public Service Company of New Mexico . And Mr . Ortiz is going to address the rate impacts of the technology , selective catalytic reduction , or SCR, and also SNCR, selective non catalytic reduction , which is embodied in the NMED proposal .

So the Board will have that testimony to consider in terms of assessing the economics and the cost effectiveness of the various technologies that have

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# 79 been considered .

And we will also be presenting two witnesses from Black & Veatch , which is the contractor that PNM hired to under take the BART analysis back in 2007 and continued on working on that project to the present time . You will hear from Diane Fischer and Kyle Lucas , both of whom have extensive experience with respect to BART determinations and more specifically pollution control technology , including SCR. And they will be able to answer your questions about the cost effectiveness and their analysis of the various technologies that were considered , why some technologies were considered as cost effective , why some were not .

And they will also be able to detail the differences between the EPA proposal for SCR for San Juan that 's embodied in the FIP versus the differences and the costs that PNM has submitted .

I would note that the issue before this Board , the proposal before this Board really is the NMED proposal . That is , there has been no -- no testimony , no technical testimony submitted in this case that would support a determination that SCR is appropriate for San Juan . No party has come forward with techn ical

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# 80 testimony to support that . While there have certainly been comments , public comments , that urge the Board to go in that direction , from a technical and evidentiary standpoint , there simply isn 't any evidence before this Board to consider or to require implementation of SCR in this case . And I also , finally , do want to highlight a significant development with respect to the choices between the two technologies that occurred .

You heard , of course , the NMED talk about the cost impact to ratepayers as being a very significant consideration in their determination that SCR was too expensive . But from a technology and BART standard standpoint , there was another significant difference that occurred between PNM 's initial submittal of its BART determination and the present , and that had to do with SNCR technology and the ability of that technology to achieve what the EPA has classified as the presumptive limit for NO x 

## .

And with the developments that have taken place in the past few years , it became apparent that SNCR technology could , in fact , reach the EPA 's own presumptive limit for NO x 

## . So by the adoption of SNCR technology , the EPA 's presumptive limit for NO x 

## will be

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# 81

met . And we think that that is a critical element in terms of this Board 's consideration of the factors in the BART determination process .

And we also note that in terms of the modeling that has taken place , you ' ve heard about the WRAP modeling and the numbers that were used to calculate whether reasonable progress could be made , that that presumptive limit , the . 23 limit , will beat the . 27 limit that WRAP set as the goal to stay on track to -- to meet the reasonable progress goals for visibility .

So with that , what I would like to do now is call our first witness , Patrick Themig , to testify in this case . If I may proceed .

MS . ORTH : All right . If you would have all of your witnesses here

sworn in . MR . ALVIDREZ : Okay . Let me have all

-- all of the witnesses who will be testifying on behalf of PNM stand up now and go ahead and be sworn in .

( PATRICK THEMIG , GERARD T. ORTIZ , DIANE M. FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS were duly sworn or affirmed .) MS . ORTH : Please go ahead . MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you .

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# 82

PATRICK THEMIG having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ALVIDREZ : Q. Mr . Themig , can you please state your name for the record ? A. My name is Patrick Themig . That 's P-A-T-R-I-C-K T- as - in

- Tom -H-E-M-I-G. Q. And , Mr . Themig , can you tell us where you ' re employed ? A. I'm employed with PNM as vice

- president in generation . Q. And have you prepared and have filed on behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico pre filed written testimony in this case , which has been marked as PNM Exhibit A? A. Yes , I have . Q. And do you have any changes to that testimony ? A. No , I do not . Q. And sitting under oath here , do you now adopt that prefiled testimony as yours in this case ? A. I do . Q. Mr . Themig , can you briefly provide the Board with a summary of your experience and educational

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# 83 background relevant to the matters in this case ? A. Sure . I' ve been in the utility business going on 35 years , holding a number of capacities from engineering plant operations to construction in the facilities . I have a degree in mechanical engineering technology .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , we would move the admission of PNM Exhibit A into evidence .

MS . ORTH : Objections ? Hearing none , it 's admitted . ( Exhibit PNM A admitted into evidence .) Q. ( BY MR . ALVIDREZ ) Mr . Themig , can you briefly summarize for the Board the salient elements of your testimony ? A. Sure . I'd be happy to . San Juan generating facility is a critical

re source for PNM . It provides base load capacity . And that base load capacity is different than what you might

see from , say , a renewable source or intermittent

source . It provides it low cost , reliable and safe , providing energy to 500 , 000 PNM customers , another 500 , 000 New Mexico customers for other owners , and then roughly a million customers from other states .

The plant is

-- has got an interesting ownership structure . PNM is the only party that owns an

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# 84 interest in four units . We own half of Units 1 and 2,

we own half of Unit 3, and we own 37 percent of Unit 4. And then there are various owners , another owner in Units 1 and 2, there 's two other owners in Unit 3, and there 's five other owners in Unit 4. So it 's kind of an interesting makeup of the ownership structure .

And the reason that 's kind of important is that when you look at capital in vestments , it 's not just

a PNM decision that 's made by this ownership structure . It 's from a process that 's developed under participation agreements and other agreements that support the project . PNM has the San Juan coal

-- the San Juan Generating Station . We also own an interest in the Four Corners Plant . And just for clarification , Four Corners is roughly seven miles south of the

-- the San Juan River and San Juan Generating Station is roughly six miles north of San Juan River .

We also own nuclear , which is base load

re source . We own wind , and we own solar , and we own natural gas resources . And the natural gas resources

are really kind of designed to regulate the system for

-- for the intermittency of such things as renewable . Unfortunately , though , we don 't always run

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# 85

natural gas units . There are times when the only thing

we have on to regulate with is San Juan , and San Juan tends to act in that capacity to regulate on the intermittence .

San Juan facility employs roughly 400 full

- time equivalents . The San Juan Coal Company , which is the exclusive provider of coal , employs over 500 full

- time equivalents . And of those , San Juan , roughly 22 percent are Native American , at the San Juan generating facility , roughly 44 percent from the San Juan Coal Company are Native American .

So this provides a very reliable and stable economic value to employees in the Four Corners area .

It 's important to realize that the San Juan facility has an annual payroll of roughly $ 56 million . We pay coal royalties of roughly 55 million per year , and these are annual

-- annual payments , 6.4 million to San Juan County in property taxes . 30 million goes to material supplies that we need to run the facility , like limestone and other

-- other costs that are needed . And then roughly 4 hundred million is spent on contract services that

-- that help support the maintenance activities , the ongoing operational activities .

So you can see that the facility provides a very , very strong economic stimulus to the Four Corners

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# 86

area and to the State of New Mexico in general .

In 2005 , PNM embarked on environmental up grades , and three of which contributed to reduction in haze . Total cost , as been referenced earlier , was $ 320 million .

And the technologies that were deployed were pulse

- jet fabric filters , and that is to collect particulate matter which directly impacts regional haze ; sulfur reduction , there was a 71 percent reduction in sulfur , which is another contributor ; and NO x 

## , and the NO x 

## was a combustion modification that reduced our nitrogen oxide emissions by roughly 44 percent .

So there 's not a lot of discussion going on around the first two , which are SO 2 

## reduction and particulate matter , because this plant is best available control technology on those two . So the focus is on the NO x 

## . And while our BART analysis that was conducted

-- and there will be members of

-- that you will hear from later that will talk about the analysis and what went into the analysis . While that analysis concludes that those control up grades that PNM and the

owners invested in from 2005 to 2009 meet BART , pursuant to the criteria , PNM is supporting the proposal by the state .

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# 87

And the reason is it further s the goal of additional NO x 

## and SO 2 

## emission reductions , and it

-- but it does so with a balance on cost impact to our customers . So we ' re supporting that .

And thank you for my time . MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you , Madam Hearing Examiner . We 'd tender this witness for questioning .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you . Mr . Grantham , do you have questions ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Roybal ? MR . ROYBAL : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Rose ? MR . ROSE : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich ? MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : No questions . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you very much , Mr . Themig . Oh . I'm sorry . The Board . Very sorry . Does the Board have questions of Mr . Themig based on his testimony ? EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MR . BRYCE : I have one quick question .

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# 88 The multi

- million -- $ 77 million , or whatever the real number is , that is to be expensed under the SNCR plan , how difficult is it to accept that if you thought you may already meet the best available technology criteria with the up grades you ' ve already done ? MR . THEMIG : It 's always difficult to accept additional cost to a facility . But one has to look at what the alternatives are with the federal EPA proposal that 's out there , which is

-- which is , you know , borderline billion dollar investment , and if we look at what the state has proposed , which again further s this

-- this goal of achieving a visibility by 20 64, that 's 53 years out in the future , we believe this actually takes that next step towards achieving that 20 64 goal . MR . BRYCE : When I look long

- term , you know , wise investment in the short

- term seems to be the goal , and if long

- term , say 50 years from now , or much more clean energy than we are today .

I guess my first question is how many years -- what 's the useful life of the current plant ? How many

more years ? Is it 50 years , or how long do you think the plant will be continuing to run ?

MR . THEMIG : We currently have a depreciation

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# 89

schedule that takes us out to 20 53 time frame .

MR . BRYCE : Likely to be an extension after that , or --

MR . THEMIG : There could be . It all depends , and it depends on what the total cost impact is of either future regulations or other technologies that might emerge .

If the country embarks on a nuclear program to develop base load

-- and that 's what we really need , is base load replacement for a facility like San Juan . You know , if the country embarks on it and embraces nuclear programs , that ultimately may be a more cost - effective

re source for us in

-- sometime out in the future .

But that will be determined by

-- you know , we do this integrated re source planning process that looks at all the variables , all the contributors that tie to a

re source that we have , and through that public process there comes out a plan that 's like a three

- year or five

- year plan .

So hopefully we ' ll have solutions for the future that make sense .

MR . BRYCE : We hear lots of comments from people with renewable energy and solar and wind and intermittent sources . And nuclear

-- is there anything -- I might be off topic here .

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# 90

Is there anything that the public should know about the viability of nuclear for the future ?

Because it seems to have been on hold for so long that it seems to have dropped off the radar screen .

MR . THEMIG : As I said , PNM owns -- we own 400 megawatts of Palo Verde Nuclear Station 's base load . Two of the units are part of the jurisdictional load serving New Mexico . The Unit 3 is a merchant

-- merchant load , but very reliable , very safe .

Now , you may argue that looking at what 's taken place in Japan , but those were very , very unusual circumstances with

-- that contributed to the issues that are there .

We are currently studying some of the new nuclear technologies . There are some designs that are on the drawing board that are for small nuclear modular

re actors , that are actually built under ground , that are in the 1 25

- to 200

- megawatt range , that could be disbursed across various service areas , and we ' re looking at that . It 's some years off .

I think the first company that 's committed to one of those technologies was TVA, and they ' re looking at 10 to 12 years before that first unit goes commercial .

So through that time frame , between now and

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# 91

then , we ' ll continue to study nuclear .

MR . BRYCE : Thank you . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? MR . FULFER : I'm understanding that this $ 320 million up grade started back in 2005 and it was completed in 2009 ; is that right ?

MR . THEMIG : The consent decree was signed in 2005 . Construction commenced , I think , late 2006 , or maybe early 2007 .

MR . FULFER : What brought this 3 20 investment

on ? What started it ?

MR . THEMIG : It was an agreement under the consent decree to install the new technologies , which

were baghouse

-- post strip baghouse , combustion modifications for NO x 

## and an elimination or bypass of flu gas around the scrubber so we ' re scrubbing 100 percent of the flu gas .

MR . FULFER : Do you normally see a time period , say three , five , seven years , that you get to

re capture your investment ?

MR . THEMIG : Investment re capture would be

-- actually , it 's kind of outside my realm . It 's actually

our accounting group who would look at all the variables

on depreciation schedules and earnings and on and on . So it just kind of depends .

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If you in stall a capital pump , which is a small item , that has a life of five years , you recover your investment in five years . If you install a large investment , say , like an SCR, you 'd have many more years you 'd have to do the recovery over .

MR . FULFER : As far as going to like the ratepayers and trying to re capture your costs , what time period do you normally look at on that ?

MR . THEMIG : We look into

-- and Gerard Ortiz will provide more comment on rate impact and the timeline for that , but essentially as soon as the project is completed , we do a filing in a rate case for the initial recovery of that investment .

MR . FULFER : So really if you look back at the timeline that you started on this BART , the

-- your investment that you ' ve already put forward

-- will it count -- will some of these count toward

-- or can you

use some of your investment in this new technology

-- will it

-- will it come forward -- I guess what I'm trying to say , come forward in the

-- in your new program , if you

-- if it was --

MR . THEMIG : Yeah . If I could clarify . Are you referring specifically to NO x 

## , or are you talking

--

MR . FULFER : The NO x 

## .

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# 93

MR . THEMIG : -- about the other technologies that

-- MR . FULFER : The NO x 

## .

MR . THEMIG : The NO x 

## . The NO x 

## actually takes

-- reduces the total emission by another factor , and

-- and it

-- the answer to the question , it all depends . If we ' re able to utilize the ammonia

-- ammonia injection for the SNCR, and that technology is being developed now , then we could utilize the capital that 's invested for the tanks and the regulators that take the ammonia to the boiler .

If we ' re required to use some other chemicals , like urea , for the SNCR technology , then it would be less likely to utilize that equipment .

MR . FULFER : So you feel like there 's been a significant improvement in the SNCR technology ?

MR . THEMIG : There has , and that is one of the

reasons SNCR is now able to meet this presumptive limit that 's 0. 23 pounds per million BTU, is because of the technology enhancements and the way that the suppliers

are able to actually get mixing of the urea and the flu e gas stream and get more re activity for the NO x 

## reduction .

MR . FULFER : That 's all I have . MR . CASCIANO : I have one question . You mentioned the improvement with the low NO x

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# 94

burners and the 44 percent on the

-- on the NO x 

## emissions since 2005 , I guess , that improvement .

MR . THEMIG : Well , it wasn 't -- the construction activities actually concluded in early

-- or in 2007 , '8 and '9, during outages , so that the total NO x 

## reduction was phased in over those times , as we had unit outages to do the work .

MR . CASCIANO : And I guess my question is have there been other environmental improvements to the facility prior to 2005 , in the recent set of improvements ?

MR . THEMIG : There have . And I don 't know the whole history . I' ve been with PNM for three years .

But there was a sulfur

-- sulfuric acid manufacturing plant that was added to the back of the plant . It 's been a number of years . And then that was subsequently converted to -- parts of it were converted to what

-- flu e gas scrubbers . And there were electrostatic precipitators initially installed on the facility . There may have been up grades . But those are the two that I really recall .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . And can you give me a sense of the trend line for NO x 

## ?

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# 95

I mean , maybe where we are now and where we were five years ago and ten years ago from the facility .

MR . THEMIG : Sure . I'd be happy to . What

-- and there may have been low NO x 

## burners installed at some point . When the plant was originally designed , it probably had just traditional combustors , and they may have installed low NO x 

## burners . But our permit limit prior to the environmental up grade was .5 pounds per million BTU, and then we now are permitted .3 pounds per million BTU, and we operate just slightly under that . So we have some latitude for variability in operations .

And then with SNCR, that would drop to . 23 , so

we 'd operate actually below . 23 pounds per million BTU.

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . Thank you . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? Mr . Alvidrez , do you have follow

- up ? MR . ALVIDREZ : I have no follow

- up . Thank you . MS . ORTH : All right . Is there any reason not to exclude Mr . Themig ? No ? Thank you very much , Mr . Themig . MR . THEMIG : Thank you . MR . ALVIDREZ : We can proceed , or if this is

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# 96

the time you want to take a break and

--

MS . ORTH : What 's the Board 's pleasure ? MS . PEACOCK : Let 's proceed . MS . ORTH : All right . Please go ahead . MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you . With that , we 'd like to call Gerard Ortiz .

GERARD T. ORTIZ having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ALVIDREZ :

MR . ALVIDREZ : If we may proceed . MS . ORTH : Yes , please . Q. ( BY MR . ALVIDREZ ) Mr . Ortiz , you ' ve been

sworn , as you are aware , but can you please state your

name for the record ? A. My name is Gerard T. Ortiz . Q. And can you please tell the Board where you ' re employed and in what capacity ? A. Yes . I am the executive director of New Mexico Retail Regulatory Services for PNM Resources in Albuquerque . In my current role , I'm responsible for the group that puts together the fuel forecasts , the group that manages and makes all of our NM PRC regulatory

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# 97 filings , cost of service and pricing , as well as the group that develops and proposes to the commission our energy efficiency programs . Q. And , Mr . Ortiz , have you prepared prefiled testimony in this case that we have mark ed as PNM Exhibit B? A. Yes , I have . Q. And do you have any changes or corrections to your prefiled testimony ? A. I do not . Q. And do you now adopt that testimony under oath in this proceeding ? A. Yes , sir . MR . ALVIDREZ : With that , Madam Hearing Officer , we would move the admission of PNM Exhibit B into evidence .

MS . ORTH : Are there objections ? Hearing none , it 's admitted . Thank you . ( Exhibit PNM B admitted into evidence .) Q. ( BY MR . ALVIDREZ ) Mr . Ortiz , can you briefly summarize the salient topics of your pre filed testimony for the Board ? A. Yes , sir . I would like to begin by providing

a beef

-- brief summary of my background and experience .

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# 98

I received a bachelor of science in electrical engineering from New Mexico State University in 19 81. I completed a master of business administration with a concentration in finance from the Anderson School of Management at University of New Mexico .

And I' ve been employed by PNM for 30 years in various engineering , business planning , marketing and regulatory capacities .

The purpose of my testimony in this proceeding was to provide the bill impact or the ratepayer bill impact associated with installing either SCR or SNCR technology at San Juan Generating Station .

Based on analysis , cost analysis that was prepared by Black & Veatch , taking into account the capital costs , the O&M and the depreciable life of the two technologies , the estimated first year bill impact for SNCR is $ 10 . 93 , or slightly less than $1 a month . That represents a 1.4 percent increase to a customer 's bill . SCR technology , on the other hand , represents

a first year bill impact of $ 85 . 31 , or slightly more than $7 per month . This represents 11. -- an 11 .3 percent bill impact to PNM 's New Mexico retail customers . The point that I would note with re --

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# 99 relative to either of these is the SCR increase of 11 .3 percent provides no additional capacity with which to serve PNM 's retail loads .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , that concludes

our presentation of Mr . Ortiz ' testimony , and we would tender him for questioning .

MS . ORTH : Thank you . Mr . Grantham , do you have questions ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Roybal ? MR . ROYBAL : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Rose ? MR . ROSE : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich ? MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : A few questions , please . CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Q. Good morning , Mr . Ortiz . Erik

-- A. Good morning . Q. Erik Schlenker

- Goodrich with NRDC, San Juan Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians .

Just a few questions on your ratepayer impact analysis .

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# 100

You took a look at solely ratepayer impacts ; is that correct ? Or was there a broader

-- any sort of broader economic analysis done of costs ? A. No , sir . I looked at the projected first year bill impact . Q. Did you do any sort of quantitative analysis of the economic costs that would be borne by potentially the difference between increased health impacts between SCR and SNCR technologies ? A. No , sir . Q. Did you do any sort of quantitative analysis of potential visibility or environmental impacts to the Class I wilderness or national park areas ? A. No , sir . The purpose of my testimony was simply to quantify the ratepayer impact . Q. And one moment , please . No further questions . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich . Anyone else ? Do Board members have questions ? Questions from the Board ? If there 's no reason , then , not to -- oh , I'm sorry . Mr . Alvidrez , do you have follow

- up ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : I do have no redirect . Thank

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# 101

you . MS . ORTH : All right .

Thank you very much , Mr . Ortiz . MR . ORTIZ : You ' re welcome . MS . ORTH : You have two more , I believe . MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes . I have two more to present as a panel .

MS . ORTH : All right . MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , I'd ask Mr . Lucas and Ms . Fischer to join me up here .

MS . ORTH : They ' re already sworn . MR . ALVIDREZ : If I may proceed . MS . ORTH : Please . DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS having been first duly sworn or affirmed , were examined and testified as follows : MR . ALVIDREZ : Let me start with you , Ms . Fischer .

Can you please state your name and place of employment for the record ?

MS . FISCHER : Yes . My name is Diane Fischer . I work at Black & Veatch .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And , Ms . Fischer , did you , in conjunction with Mr . Lucas , prepare pre filed testimony that has been submitted as PNM Exhibit C in this case ?

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# 102

MS . FISCHER : Yes , sir . MR . ALVIDREZ : And do you have any corrections to PNM Exhibit C?

MS . FISCHER : Yeah . We do have a few minor typographical corrections that we 'd like to make .

The first one is on page 9, at the end of line 14 . We accidentally left off NO x 

## Star Technology as a technology we consider infeasible . It 's in our BART analysis , but it just got left off of the testimony .

On page 17 , line 7, the sentence reads right

now , " Additionally , air quality relative values ." It should say " related values " instead of " relative ." Just

a typo there .

And then on page 24 , line 19 , the sentence should read , " PNM Exhibit B&V-4 summarizes the cost of SNCR at San Juan ." So I'd like to just rephrase that sentence . MR . ALVIDREZ : And , Ms . Fischer , with those corrections that you ' ve just made , do you adopt your pre filed testimony here under oath ?

MS . FISCHER : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : Turning to you , Mr . Lucas , please state your name for the record .

And you might get closer to the mike . MR . LUCAS : Certainly .

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# 103 My name is Kyle Lucas . MR . ALVIDREZ : And where are you employed , Mr . Lucas . MR . LUCAS : I' ve been employed at Black & Veatch for 17 years .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And , Mr . Lucas , again , did you , in conjunction with Ms . Fischer , prepare prefiled testimony in this case that we have marked as PNM Exhibit C. MR . LUCAS : Yes .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And you heard the corrections that Ms . Fischer made with respect to that testimony .

And let me ask , with those corrections , do you adopt that testimony as your sworn testimony in this

case ? MR . LUCAS : Yes .

MR . ALVIDREZ : At this time , I'd like to move the admission of PNM Exhibit C into the evidentiary record . MS . ORTH : Are there objections ?

Hearing none , it 's admitted . ( Exhibit PNM C admitted into evidence .) MR . ALVIDREZ : With that , I'd call on Ms . Fischer to provide a brief description of her relevant experience and educational background .

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# 104

MS . FISCHER : I' ve been now with Black & Veatch for 19 years . I have a reg - -- I'm a registered mechanical engineer in the State of Missouri . I am a graduate of Iowa State University with a bachelor of science in mechanical engineering .

I' ve spent 19 years with Black & Veatch , and the entirety of that time on air quality control projects . My specialty area is NO x 

## control . I' ve spent the last 11 years or so almost solely on NO x 

## control projects . I also have been involved in three BART analyses and more than I could count when I was trying to add it up BACT analyses which are similar . So

--

MR . ALVIDREZ : And there are certain portions of the testimony , I think , that you perhaps had the greater hand in , and if you can kind of summarize for the Board , hit the high points of the areas of your pre filed testimony that you concentrated on , please .

MS . FISCHER : Sure . I was the project manager for the project , and

-- and Mr . Lucas was the assistant project manager . Roughly 20 people at Black & Veatch contributed some part to the work that we did for this BART analysis since we start ed the work in February of 2007 .

So for the testimony today , I'm going to focus

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# 105

more on the engineering and the cost estimate and work that we did , and Mr . Lucas is going to talk more about the modeling side of the work that we did .

I do want to kind of go through this

-- should I go through the steps so -- that we went through ?

We followed the EPA guidelines for BART analysis , and in that

-- in that guideline , they ask that you consider five factors in evaluating BART .

The first is to

-- the first is the cost of compliance .

The second is energy and non

-- nonair quality environmental impacts .

The third factor is the existing control technologies that are installed .

The fourth is the remaining useful life of the plant . And the last is the degree of visibility improvement .

So those are the five factors that the EPA BART guidelines require us to look at .

And in doing that , they ' ve developed a five

- step process that we followed .

The first step is to identify the available retrofit control technologies that can be applied .

The second step is to eliminate those

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# 106 technologies that are considered infeasible .

The third is to take the ones that are feasible and evaluate the amount of control that can be done with those technologies .

The fourth is to determine the impacts . And that 's where you get into the factors that we talked about before .

And then the last is to assess the visibility impacts of each technology .

So those are the steps that we went through . I also want to highlight

-- on page 2 of our testimony is a summary of the

-- kind of the history of

our submittals to the NMED . It lists out all the submittals that we made . We ' ve made quite a number of them . They typically had to -- fell into one of three

areas . One , the

-- the modeling continued to evolve

as we were going through this project . The

-- there continued to be new -- and Mr . Lucas can talk more about this

-- new additions to the modeling methodology . And so we had several submittals related to that .

We also had several submittals related to specific questions from the NMED . So we responded to those questions .

And then there were a couple that were more

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# 107 generally informational that we made .

But the one I want to highlight , of course , and the main reason we ' re here today , is the February 11 , 2011 , submittal of a revised SNCR BART analysis . And that has been the focus of this hearing .

We submitted that BART analysis in response to up dates in the

-- in the SNCR technology from our original BART that would allow it to meet the presumptive limit . And so then we re submitted the BART analysis . And if you look on page -- finding it

-- 17 , I believe -- I' ll get there

-- 17 of our testimony is the summary of the costs that we put together for the revised BART analysis from February , 2011 .

The end result of that was a reduction of about 4, 900 tons per year of NO x 

## at a cost of roughly $3, 500 a ton .

So that

-- that concludes what I wanted to say about our testimony .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Mr . Lucas , if you could please briefly summarize for the Board the portions of the pre filed testimony that you focused on .

MR . LUCAS : Certainly . First of all , I'd like to give you a little background on myself .

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# 108

I have worked at Black & Veatch , again , for 17 years , initially started as an air quality scientist , conducting modeling studies and working through various calculations on air permit applications . I then moved on to becoming an environmental permitting manager at Black & Veatch , where I over saw various strategy analyses and other licensing projects .

For this project , I over saw the model ing analyses from 2007 until February , and I' ve also assisted as the assistant manager to help facilitate the engineering studies on going throughout this process .

As Diane had noted earlier , I will be focusing on the modeling aspects of the analysis that are presented here , specifically over the course of the four

- year period .

We initially began with the project by developing a modeling protocol document , using a route template as our guidance . Through that , we established

our modeling methodologies , the model itself , the meteorological data , determining data , operational characteristics of the units , pre - and postcontrol scenarios , and also specific receptors in the Class I

areas . All of those parameters and methodologies were submitted to NMED as part of our over all methodology to

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# 109 perform the analyses for the required guidelines .

With that , we ended up submitting , as Ms . Fischer had noted , our February , 2011 analysis . Before then , and following our June of 2007 -- I'm sorry -- yeah , June , 2007 analysis , we submitted six additional modeling analyses that either up dated the modeling for various regions , looked at various air quality control analyses , up dates , or responded directly to NMED questions or concerns that they had .

The submittals that we have made are summarized on page 2 of our testimony .

I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have at this time .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , we tender these witnesses for questions .

MS . ORTH : Thank you . Mr . Grantham ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Roybal ? MR . ROYBAL : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Rose ? MR . ROSE : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich ? MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : No questions . MS . ORTH : Anyone else ?

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Board members , do you have questions of the Black & Veatch panel , Ms . Fischer and Mr . Lucas , based

on their testimony ? EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MS . RYAN : I have some questions regarding the maximum visibility improvements to each unit and then that in comparison to your -- and in relation to your cost effectiveness analysis and so forth .

I think it would be beneficial for our Board if you would walk us through that a little bit and the

-- looking at the

-- on page 22 of your Exhibit C, and moving on to the next couple of pages .

Could you summarize how you came to those opinions and how

-- how effective is this SNCR and

-- you know , there 's some general statements here that it 's going to improve , but

-- but I would like you to address specifically .

MR . LUCAS : Certainly . The way we conducted

our engineering analysis and our modeling analysis was first to develop a baseline of a facility , and as earlier testified by others , the facility baseline was the consent decree controls that began in 2005 and finished in 2009 .

From that , we addressed various feasible and

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# 111 infeasible technologies , eliminated the infeasible ones and developed design parameters for those that we took into the modeling analyses .

We looked at each of the feasible controls . In this case , we ' ll talk specific ally about SNCR. Okay . And looked at it as compared to the visibility improvement gained against the baseline scenario . We looked at that also for all the 16 Class I areas that

are within the 300

- kilometer radius and also governed by the guidelines .

What we ended up doing , simplistically , is after we developed the baseline model with all the parameters that I spoke of earlier , site

- specific characteristics , meteorological data , three

- dimensional meteorological data , various other trained considerations and so forth , we then model ed the baseline scenario for the plant for all four units , both

on a facility

- wide basis and an individual unit basis , so that we could contrast and compare .

And then we took the SNCR scenario at its

. 23 million NO x 

## emission rate , per that instant model , repeated the analysis , and came up with another set of results on the visibility basis , a deciview basis .

And for reference , a deciview is the metric that the guidelines use . It is comparable to a percent

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# 112 change in visibility . So roughly a 1 deciview improvement would be comparable to 10 percent change of visibility . Okay .

From that point , we went ahead and took our facility baseline and subtracted from the visibility improvement scene or visibility result scene from the SNCR scenario , and on a facility

- wide basis , the deciview number is a . 25 improvement at one of the 16 Class I areas .

On a unit

- by

- unit basis , the same analysis was done , and those impacts range from

-- on the bottom of page 22, range up to a . 18 deciview change on an individual unit basis .

I should note , though , that it is not appropriate to add individual units up in this manner , because you have to look at it as a facility total . Individual units and their characteristics within the model act independently and not act as a whole .

And so when we looked at individual unit impacts , it was not Unit 1 operation , Unit 2 operation and so forth . When you look at total facility improvements , you want to look at the combined facility operating and being modeled at the same time .

MS . RYAN : So in the comparison you made , 1 deciview equals basically a 10 percent change in

--

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MR . LUCAS : Visibility . MS . RYAN : -- my human eyesight visibility of what I'm looking at .

So could you do the math for me and how

-- you

were saying a . 25 deciview change ?

MR . LUCAS : It 's about a 2.5 percent visibility change .

MS . RYAN : We ' re not talking about a lot here . How is that compared to the SRC, what they propose with the

-- the visibility change ?

MR . LUCAS : The SCR case that Black & Veatch submitted had a maximum of about 1.3 visibility improvement , so about a 1 -- about 13 percent visibility improvement .

The EPA has a threshold of 1 deciview

-- MS . RYAN : Um - hum . MR . LUCAS : -- which they believe is a human perceptible change , so 10 percent visibility change .

MS . RYAN : So EPA is shooting for a 13

-- if I'm just hearing you correctly , a -- because I'm not a scientist here -- a 13 percent , and would the

non catalytic reduction technology

-- would be at

-- would you repeat that percentage again ?

MR . LUCAS : The deciview is . 25 , so it 's a 2.5 percent change .

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MS . RYAN : 2.5. Okay . MR . LUCAS : Overall the 2.5 percent -- 2.5 --

a change of the . 25 deciview by itself is less than the 1 deciview .

Over all , though , on a cumulative basis , when you look at other BART sources and other state and federal implementations for the Clean Air Act around , how

-- and we spoke earlier about how all those were model ed together or will be modeled together in the 2013 and 2018 time frames . Those will all contribute to

over all visibility improvements through out the area .

MS . RYAN : Okay . So that in comparison to the

-- to the costs of each of the different technologies , the cost to achieve a 13 percent change and the cost to achieve a 2.5 percent change

-- can you discuss

-- walk us through that ? MR . LUCAS : Certainly . I' ll turn this over to Ms . Fischer to walk through some of the more specific details . MS . FISCHER : Yeah . The

-- the costs for SCR for the four units would be , adding them up real quick , roughly $ 900 million , for that 13 percent visibility . The costs for the SNCR is , you know , in the 70 million range .

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So there 's a pretty significant difference in

-- in the costs between the two .

MS . RYAN : And not being a scientist , there 's -- I'd just request you to explain the really large gap between 2.5 percent and 13 percent .

MS . FISCHER : There is one in between . It 's called an SCR/SNCR hybrid , which we did analyze . And the easiest way to -- to talk about that is kind of like

a baby SCR. Instead of building an entire SCR reactor to go all the way down to the . 07 pounds per two NO x 

## , you try and fit as much catalyst into the existing duct or maybe just expand the duct a little bit and then apply SNCR with that .

So it 's a combination of a -- kind of a baby SCR with a -- with an SNCR system .

And the problem with the

-- and it did

-- it did kind of hit an intermediate spot . You 'd have to tell us what the deciview permit for that was . I don 't recall it off the top of my head .

I don 't know if you remember it . MR . LUCAS : I don 't either . MS . FISCHER : Okay . But it was between . And

-- but the challenge is that as soon as you add that catalyst and you have to implement all the changes to the ductwork , you end up having to do all the

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draft system convergence to make sure that the boiler

can handle the new pressures in it .

When you do all that , the end result is that the cost is , unfortunately , very close to a full SCR, but the

-- but you can 't get as much removal . And so the deciview is not as -- the deciview improvement compared to the cost is not as great .

The guidelines require you to draw a curve -- and I don 't have a -- I'm using my hands now -- a curve that shows kind of the least cost effective line . And when you plot that SCR/SNCR hybrid on that curve , it 's above the cost effectiveness line , whereas the SNCR and the SCR are more on that line .

In other words , you ' re going to get a better improvement for the money you spent with either of those two technologies , compared to the hybrid . So yes , there is an in

- between , but it tends to not be looked at a lot because it isn 't as cost effective a solution .

MS . RYAN : Thank you . MS . FISCHER : Um - hum . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? MR . CASCIANO : I have a few questions . For the industry standard , I mean , can you characterize kind of the results of your experience with either BACT determination or BART determination for NO x

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control and

--

MS . FISCHER : Sure , yeah . BACT is typically applied on new unit SC Rs , and they ' re going to be a lot more cost effective on

a -- on a capital and annual cost , mostly because you

are building the plant with the SCR in mind right from the beginning .

And so those

-- the costs for a new SCR are relatively low . You know , it 's been a while since I' ve done one , but , you know , in the hundred dollars a kilowatt kind of number , compared to where we are in this project , which is more like $ 300 a kilowatt .

When you do a retrofit , you have to go and modify the existing plant . You ' re working inside a plant that already has a lot of stuff in your way . The ductwork in the arrangement is not set up for the SCR, so you have a lot of re work to do . And

-- so that 's what jacks up the price .

The costs at PNM are higher than the industry average , and the main reason for that is because PNM is

a forced draft unit . What that means is that it pushes the flu e gas through the unit , instead of balancing the boiler . So the boiler is positive pressure .

In a balanced draft unit , the boiler is zero pressure . So you got a fan coming in to push the flu e

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gas into the boiler , and you have a fan at the outlet pulling the flu e gas , and so the pressure at the boiler is zero . That 's called a balanced draft unit .

PNM is a forced draft unit . And so when you go to do something like an up grade for SCR, you have to meet National Fire Protection code NFPA 85, which requires you to go and re assess the draft impacts to the Unit . You can 't just put a fan downstream of the boiler without stiffening the boiler , so that it can handle that pressure , because if you lose the FD fan , the pushing fan , it will suck in

-- suck in the boiler like a tin can .

And so the National Fire Protection code has written a standard that requires you to go and stiffen that boiler . And so in this particular situation , we have to do that . And so that 's causing the costs specifically at San Juan Station to be higher than what

we ' re seeing in the general industry for SCR retrofit .

MR . CASCIANO : So would I be correct in saying that BART has been determined in the industry to be anything from low NO x 

## burners to selective catalytic conversion , to selective non catalytic conversion ? Is -- you know , is there a standard

-- it doesn 't seem like there 's a one size fits all , because every facility is

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# 119 different , and it drives wide variations in the costs for the retrofitting .

MS . FISCHER : Yes , sir . The standard is actually specifically stated that you have to do a

case - by

- case analysis . One of the challenges that we ' re seeing is a lot of these BARTs

-- even though it 's been

a bunch of years , very few BART determinations are final . In fact , I think the only one I know of is the port -- is Portland Generating .

MR . LUCAS : Boardman station in Oregon . MS . FISCHER : Boardman station is the only BART that I'm aware of that is final and approved by EPA and official .

All the other BARTs that I'm aware of are still out there in some stage of public comment or evaluation . So

--

MR . CASCIANO : Are you aware of any other BARTs for

-- that have been rejected for selective catalytic reduction technology ?

MS . FISCHER : The

-- MR . CASCIANO : Any other facilities where they ' ve determined that

-- similar to PNM 's position , that it 's not cost effective for that technology as a BART , and they ' ve gone to their selective non catalytic

or gone to just low NO x 

## burners as the best available

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# 120 retrofit ? MS . FISCHER : The draft in Colorado for Craig Station and

-- is

-- there are three units at Craig , and they have been asked to put two -- one SCR on Unit 2 at Craig and SNCR, which is the technology we ' re talking about for here , on -- is it 1 and 3, I believe . So that 's -- that 's -- but that 's a draft .

That hasn 't been finally approved by the EPA ; is that right ?

MR . LUCAS : There are several other facilities in Wyoming .

MS . FISCHER : Oh , yes . MR . LUCAS : An initial determination by the facility through the BART was that SC Rs or SNC Rs were not feasible or not cost effect ive , but the state later came back and determined that the SNC Rs to be that chosen technology .

A lot of those are being contested right now . But I don 't know what the current status is .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . MS . FISCHER : The four

-- the other thing is the Four Corners , which is governed by EPA Region 9 -- the EPA determination

-- original determination was SC Rs on all five units there . I think the current proposal out there is to shut down 1, 2 and 3 and just continue

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# 121

to run 4 and 5 with the SC Rs .

But their NO x 

## -- they ' re starting NO x 

## compared to PNM was significantly higher . They were at like .5 whereas , P NM is starting at like .3, so --

MR . LUCAS : What Diane is alluding to is the dollar per ton that you ' re also kind of getting to as the threshold , Four Corners had a higher initial NO x 

## --

un controlled NO x 

## rate of the middle 4s, I believe , .4, where as San Juan --

MS . FISCHER : 4.5. MR . LUCAS : -- is down to .3. And the cost to install SCR at San Juan again is different than the cost to install at the San Juan Station simply because of some of the more complex features of

-- site

- specific features that San Juan has , including the balanced draft version that Ms . Fischer spoke of . MR . CASCIANO : Okay .

MS . FISCHER : I apologize for not remembering the exact thing in Craig . I know at least one has an SCR and one h as SNCR. I just can 't remember if it 's two at Craig that have SCR or one . But that could be verified . But anyway , the only one that 's final that I'm

aware of is Boardman . All the others are in some state

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of review or contesting .

MR . LUCAS : I have worked on five large BART projects at eight different plants for 23 different coal units , and I don 't have a final determination yet from the EPA on any of those . The states have submitted their determination , and with their determination submitted their various SIPs to the EPA in various regions off the country , but we have yet to hear on any of those what the final determination 's been .

MS . RYAN : We have no precedent for this Board to work off of on what the likelihood that EPA would approve our SIP if this was implemented ?

MS . FISCHER : Not much . MR . LUCAS : I can 't speak to that . It has not been very successful in the other projects I' ve worked on . Whether

-- and I don 't know what the drivers are on those , whether or not the EPA has yet to begin reviewing or whether or not the EPA is opening it back up to starting a new review process . But it has yet to be resolved and finalized in a SIP .

MR . CASCIANO : So back to your visibility modeling , does the model take into effect other sources ? Is that

-- MR . LUCAS : Not this modeling , no . The modeling done for San Juan was specific to San Juan , San

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Juan 's baseline and San Juan 's future AQC technologies that were being analyzed . It does not look at any other

sources in the area .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . So you don 't have any information on what percentage of the total air shed or , you know , sources in the area this source represents .

MR . LUCAS : No . It was not required as part of the BART -- BART submittal .

MR . FULFER : What are the state -- what are the surrounding states ' presumptive levels ? Are they the same as what we ' re looking at here , or --

MS . FISCHER : The presumptive levels are a function of the boiler type and the fuel . They ' re not by state . They ' re by the fuel you burn and the type of boiler you have . So they have the same list of presumptive levels that San Juan has , it 's just a matter of looking at their boiler and fuel type to figure out what line to go on on the table . That table is in the EPA guidelines .

MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? Mr . Alvidrez , do you have follow

- up ? MR . ALVIDREZ : I do , just a -- one question . Mr . Lucas , Board Member Casciano asked you a question about the modeling you did for San Juan Generating Station , whether it took into account other

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sources , and I wanted to clarify on the record is there other modeling , such as the WRAP modeling that was done , that looks at a comprehensive

-- comprehensive number of

sources and their impacts ?

MR . LUCAS : Yes . There is other modeling that has been done and will be done . NMED indicated earlier that the 20 13 and 20 18 will be re visited , and at that point , I believe , they will be including

-- or a contractor will be including all the various BART source changes that will happen , along with any other state or federal implementation proceedings or proposals going in . And from that , you will end up with a new determination at each of the Class I areas as to whether or not visibility is truly improving beyond what NMED stated earlier .

MR . CASCIANO : And does EPA specify what improvement needs to happen , or is it just that it needs to be improving ?

MR . LUCAS : There is

-- they have established

a glide path for each of the Class I areas , and that glide path is basically denoted to achieve a natural visibility condition by 20 64. So simplistically , you would take the

-- take where you ' re at today , and on an

access view quite high to where you ' re going to be in

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the future , and that line would draw a glide path .

So every few years various circulators would go back and reevaluate where everybody 's at , and you will either be a bove the line or below the line at that point with these implemented changes .

And technically , if you ' re above the line , you ' re going to be looking at additional changes throughout BART sources or possibly throughout other

non - BART sources and other air emission sources within

an area , in other words , to try to further the progress towards that natural visibility condition .

MR . CASCIANO : So is that comprehended in the analysis you did for this BART ?

MR . LUCAS : No . We -- the analysis we did was

a single point . It was looking at what visibility improvements you could achieve at the 16 Class I areas by looking at those control technologies that are feasible for San Juan . The analysis provided here in the Exhibit C focuses on the SNCR technology and those improvements that can be seen and achieved .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . MS . FISCHER : If it 's okay , the one thing I'd like to clarify on that is we did a BART analysis for San Juan , and then the NMED takes that BART analysis and that modeling that we did and plugs it into their

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broader model of the whole state . So that , you know , we ' re feeding a piece to the bigger work that NMED does .

MS . ORTH : Is there anything else , Mr . Alvidrez ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : No . Thank you very much . MS . ORTH : Anything else ? MS . RYAN : I would like to make one comment , and it 's not necessarily specific to these two witnesses , but just in general to all of the parties involved . I'm very interested , and I'm sure other Board members are , too , in the

-- the cost effectiveness of each of these different types of technologies , and our frustration in wanting to make a difference in our environment and improve the regional haze , and , also , torn with the huge economic impact to our state and our citizens . So I know the parties have briefed and analyzed and

-- if you could just keep that in the back of your mind , that that is what

-- that is what I personally am wrestling with , is wanting to make a visible change and do something meaningful and worth everyone 's time , and at the same time not wanting to burden our state with additional economic burdens in a

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state that it currently is , which is under a lot of burden . So I guess I just want the parties to keep that in mind as you continue to present testimony to our Board over the next couple of days and that you would try to address that in some more detail for us .

MS . ORTH : All right . Anything else ? Any reason not to excuse the witnesses ? No ? Thank you very much , Ms . Fischer and Mr . Lucas . Mr . Alvidrez .

MR . ALVIDREZ : That concludes our -- our direct case .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you . Let 's talk about where we are in 11-01. I see Mr . Rose 's hand . MR . ROSE : If you can see me over Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich . He 's such a big guy , sort of .

MS . ORTH : Yes . Just one second

-- MR . ROSE : Sure . MS . ORTH : -- Mr . Rose . Board , the other witnesses for whom notice of

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# 128 intent to present technical testimony was submitted , such that they will be in front of you , is

-- as you ' ve seen this morning , is from San Juan Coal Company , represented by Mr . Roybal back there .

He does have one of his witnesses with him , that 's Mr . Cline . The other two witnesses are in Farmington area . He would like to present all three of his witnesses at the same time . And so he 'd like to put on his whole presentation tomorrow when we ' re in Farmington .

That leaves Mr . Rose and Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich who are offering more something in the nature of public comment .

But let 's hear them out . MR . ROSE : Madam Hearing Officer , we have no testimony . We submitted our written public comment yesterday . But what I was going to do was note that you have a couple legislators here who want to speak and have an interim committee meeting starting at 1: 00 . And

so they wanted to be able to speak before they go back into session , in the next 25 minutes .

So I wanted to alert you to that fact . MS . ORTH : Thank you for that . MR . ROSE : So you can make accommodation for

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them . Thank you .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you for that . Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich , would you describe what your intention is ?

MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Yeah . We 'd like to simply summarize our written public comments that we submitted on Friday , May 27th . We think we could do that in less than five minutes . And I decided not to do public comment , but I apparently signed up on the wrong form . So I can do that in the afternoon , which is fine with me . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you .

Mr . Roybal . MR . ROYBAL : Madam Hearing Officer , we just have two witnesses , not three .

MS . ORTH : Oh , I'm sorry . Great . So legislators -- I'm sorry . It 's hard to see out there . Who would like to speak now , to make public comment ? Testimony is taken under oath and is subject to questions .

If you will please introduce yourself . MR . NEVILLE : My name is

--

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THE REPORTER : Would you raise your right hand , please . STEVE NEVILLE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : And would you please state and spell your name , please .

MR . NEVILLE : My name is Steve Neville , N-E-V-I-L-L-E. I'm state senator for District 2, which surrounds the San Juan Generating Station in Northwestern New Mexico .

I live in -- I'm a resident of Farmington , New Mexico , and we ' re down here for a Water and Natural Resources Committee meeting . And I appreciate your taking the time to let me enter a few comments .

As you can imagine , the concerns of what happens with the environmental issues in San Juan County

are very important to us . We have a large facility . I think most of you are aware that San Juan Generating Station is located up there .

San Juan Generating Station plus the coal miners that fuel that facility constitute nearly 1, 000 jobs in our community . That is a tremendous economic driver for our local area . They also pay the state

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# 131 millions of dollars in taxes every year , as well as contributing greatly to the local economy in terms of material supplies , those kind of things .

That 's all the selfish reasons why I'm here . But let 's look at it from the State of New Mexico . And as a legislator , I certainly have to consider those issues , as well .

The State of New Mexico derives fully one - half of the generating capacity

-- one - half the electricity from San Juan Generating Station . The rest of it they have to get from out of state or the nuclear plant at Palo Verde and so forth . That 's a tremendous economic situation for the State of New Mexico .

Everyone knows that coal is the cheapest method in which to generate electricity . And San Juan Generating Station has made a gallant effort over the past few years to be very friendly to the environment and certainly to those of us who live here

-- live there . We believe that San Juan Generating Station has done a tremendous job in protecting the environment , as well as helping the citizens of New Mexico prosper around the state .

I would urge that you adopt this plan that you ' re considering . The one that 's proposed by EPA will greatly enhance

-- increase the cost of electricity to

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# 132

all the citizens of New Mexico . And while you look at it as a dollar per person amount , that amount when you take it over the whole state has a tremendous economic benefit . With those comments , I' ll stand for any questions or conclude my remarks , and I appreciate the opportunity to let me talk . Thank you .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Senator . Questions ? No . Thank you very much .

PAUL BANDY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . BANDY : I'm Paul Bandy , P-A-U-L B-A-N-D-Y. I'm a state representative , District 3, which is Eastern San Juan County .

I want to echo what Senator Neville said . I think they ' ve done a lot of

-- made a lot of investments to improve the emission

-- to lower the emission rates for the San Juan Generating Station , and I think that

-- the plan the state proposes that 's before you I think is

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a -- I think that the PNM thinks that they can live within that and still keep the utility rates at a reasonable rate

-- level in New Mexico .

It 's important for all the state to have a reasonable utility

-- electrical rate , because everything that we do , everything we buy and all the jobs that we produce is dependent in one way or another

on electrical supply , and that

-- and supplying that at

a reasonable rate .

My personal concern is from our neighbors , whose

-- many of them work at the power plant or their job s are associated with that . We ' ve already

-- we have two power plants in San Juan County . The San Juan Generating is on the north side of the San Juan River . The Four Corners Power Plant is on the south side and on the Navajo Reservation .

And they ' ve already decided that because of the environmental regulations they ' re going to shut down three of the five plants

-- three units that produce electricity there . So that 's going to be a tremendous hit for jobs in our area . And we certainly don 't need to threaten any more of the jobs .

The other is about the tax base in San Juan County . 93 percent of San Juan County is government land of one kind or another , either controlled by the

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# 134

BLM or the State of New Mexico or the Navajo Reservation . And so there 's not much of a tax base there if it 's not for the industrial segment . And the San Juan Generating Station has a tremendous effect on the county tax base .

That 's would conclude my testimony . We 'd urge you to adopt the plan that 's before you .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Representative . Questions ? No ? Thank you very much . MR . BANDY : Thank you .

RAY BEGAY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . BEGAY : Thank you . My name is Ray Begay . I'm in the state House of Representatives , serving my 13 years . And I'm here to testify on behalf of my constituency and also on behalf of District 4 in San Juan County .

I am a permanent resident of San Juan County and has been for many , many , many years . I live in

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# 135 Shiprock . Also live d in Red Valley , Arizona , on the New Mexico side , near the border of Red Valley and Mitten Rock area . And my families comprise of a ranch

-- being

a rancher , farmer , and just

-- just common people and professional people , as well .

And having said that , I was looking at the several indicators on this hearing being conducted today and some of the recommendations that are being made . And there 's always a negative and always a positive in such a hearing as this , and being able to look at all the pictures and all the numbers and seeing what would be the best practice here in the State of New Mexico as it is . And the Public Service Company of New Mexico

-- obviously , the Navajo Nation or -- is a stakeholder in this whole process . And many Native American , predominantly Navajo , live off the reservation in Farmington , Aztec , Bloomfield , La Plata and Kirtland , Water flow and those areas , and some of them had established permanent residence because of the jobs nearby . Four Corners is very unique , and its coal , oil and gas , helium and other natural mineral product . And I think for many , many years , the Sta te of New Mexico had benefitted from the revenues that are

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# 136 generated through time . And we have been very healthy here in the State of New Mexico , were able to gain many employment for people that otherwise would not have that opportunity to .

Also , the Navajo Nation government itself had also benefitted . And many of my relatives and friends and people that I communicate with at a professional level that are Navajos have really sustained themselves through this economic endeavors . And some had retired , working for the

-- for PNM and BHP Billiton and other public service company , and live in a very comfortable lifestyle now and really appreciate the corporations coming and doing what they had to do .

And I live also in Shiprock , I live along the San Juan River , and I have a farm there . And so I see the pollutions that goes on 24 /7, and it 's been there for many , many years . And so there seem to be some question now who would be the caretaker of the environmental impact , would it be the federal government , would it be the State of New Mexico .

And I have some information on the San Juan Generating Station that employs 394 full

- time workers , and 20 percent of those are of Native American descent , predominantly Navajos . The San Juan Mine also employ 5 26 people , of whom 46 percent are Native Americans .

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# 137

And the plants itself pays millions of dollars

a year in government taxes , which I alluded to earlier . And to kind of give you an accurate figure is $ 54 .8 million in coal royalties and taxes paid to governments and tribes , 6.4 million paid in property tax to San Juan County .

And also , that San Juan also purchased about 30 million in materials and supplies every year and hold approximately 12 2 million contracts for outside services . The plant pays 280 million each year for coal and ash removal .

So the productivity , the economy that 's generated in the Four Corners area is very beneficial to the Navajo Nation , to tribes and to the City of Farmington and to San Juan County in general .

I would urge this body to make that determinations that the environment

-- the Environmental Improvement Board should adopt and draft a State Implementation Plan as proposed by the New Mexico Environmental Department . So I'm here to urge you as a body to make that determination . I think it 's -- I think it 's worthwhile that we keep all the decision

- making here in the State of New Mexico .

I appreciate your time and attention to my request . Thank you .

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# 138

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Representative Begay . Are there other legislators ?

NATE GENTRY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . GENTRY : My name is Nate Gentry , representative , House District 30 , N-A-T-E G-E-N-T-R-Y.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . GENTRY : Thank you , Madam Chair , members of the Board .

My name is Nate Gentry . I represent House District 30 , located in Albuquerque .

I'm here today to urge the Board to draft the State Implementation Plan as proposed by the NMED .

As I'm sure the Board is aware , the federal plan costs significantly more than does the state plan . Not only is there concern certainly from my perspective , the relative household impact that the proposed federal plan would have , but there 's also significant economic

concerns . The federal

-- proposed federal plan costs roughly 10 times more than would the state plan , and

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# 139 this would burden particularly the portion of the state that has been particularly

-- particularly hard hit by the recent economic downturn , specifically San Juan County . What is also of concern -- or from my perspective , the state plan has

-- strikes a much better balance between both the environmental consequences as well as the economic considerations .

So I would again urge that the Board to accept the state 's -- NMED 's plan , State Implementation Plan .

With that , I'd stand for any questions . MS . ORTH : Thank you very much . Other legislators ? Other legislators ? No ? Board , are we ready for a lunch break now ? MS . PEACOCK : Yes . MS . ORTH : Yes . MS . PEACOCK : How much public comment is left , or how

-- how much time is left ?

MS . ORTH : I can -- how many are here to make public comment in EIB 11-01, that 's the regional haze State Implementation Plan revisions ?

One , two , three , four

-- all right . Is there anyone here specifically to offer

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# 140 public comment in EIB 11-02, which is a related but not identical matter ?

Anyone at all ? Okay . MS . PEACOCK : We should continue , then , and

-- MS . ORTH : All right . MS . PEACOCK : And then it 's my understand ing

we would go to Farmington .

MS . ORTH : That 's correct . Then we ' re done

-- MS . PEACOCK : We ' re done here and

-- yeah . Let 's finish up here .

THE REPORTER : Can we take like five minutes , though , please ?

MS . PEACOCK : Cheryl , thank you . Absolutely . MS . ORTH : Yes . Thank you . Let 's take five minutes . ( Proceedings in recess from 12 : 49 p.m. to 1:05 p.m. ) MS . ORTH : We are back after a break . We have finished the technical testimony that will be heard in Santa Fe . We have a little more technical testimony to hear tomorrow in Farmington from San Juan Coal Company , but that will be up at the college in Farmington starting at 9: 00 a.m. tomorrow .

So what we ' re going to do for the rest of our

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# 141 time together today is accept the last of the public comment . What I have is Norma McCallan , Paul Gessing , Beverlee McClure , Elizabeth Slota and Erik Schlenker

- Goodrich .

Is there anyone else who is going to want to make public comment ?

I see no hands . Let 's begin with Ms . McCallan . MS . MC CALLAN : Do I come up there ? MS . ORTH : Yeah . Come up here , please . All comment is taken under oath and is subject to questions from the Board .

And I' ll ask you to keep your comments under five minutes , if you can . NORMA MC CALLAN having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . MC CALLAN : Norma McCall an , M-C- capital -C-A-L-L-A-N.

I am a long

- term resident of New Mexico . I deeply love it , and I feel very privileged to live in

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# 142 this state , having grown up in another state , back east . I cherish its land , its water , its people , its magnificent blue skies .

I support not your plan , but the EPA 's proposed BART plan to reduce the NO x 

## emissions which will reduce them by 80 percent on the San Juan Generating Statement

-- Generating Station . It is a very positive step , I think , in a very long history of pollution emanating from the Four Corners area .

You can see that brown

-- you can even see the brown haze sometimes in Santa Fe . You can certainly

-- it just gets deeper and deeper and thicker and thicker as you head toward Farmington , as I did several weeks ago . And I think that your plan is woefully inadequate to do the job .

I went to the Environment Department 's public hearing in May here in Santa Fe , and PNM was there , and they really emphasized the

-- what they considered the extreme costs to their customers as being the reason that they were a -- preaching this separate smaller plan . And they pointed out that they have a lot of low

- income customers in their area , which I certainly wouldn 't deny at all .

New Mexico is a very low

- income state . And so

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# 143 it 's almost at the bottom in the per capita income in the country . And I just saw recently a figure that it 's one of four states where 20 percent of the people have to live on food

-- exist on food stamps . So that 's not

an issue . But I think they have a -- grossly exaggerated this 20

-- this $ 80 a year increase that it would

-- that people would see on their bills . I'm not an engineer , and I'm not a mathematician , but people who

are have pointed out that they think the figures are really exaggerated and it would be more like a much more reasonable $ 10 an actual year .

And we have to remember that the poor in New Mexico are -- also suffer dis proportionately from the environmental effects of air and water pollution , and we know that there 's a huge amount of asthma and lung

- related diseases in the Four Corners area , far greater than anywhere in the rest of the state .

In fact , local residents often consider themselves to be a sacrifice zone , creating energy for the rest of the country through the oil and gas and the two large power plants .

Haze is smog , and smog is full of pollution . So it 's not just a visibility issue . It 's clearly a major health issue . And it seems to me that PNM is

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# 144 thinking much more about its corporate profits than it is about the well

- being of its customers .

But if you do want to look at the visibility , which is important in its own right , tourism is the second

-- after the oil and gas industry , tourism is the second highest economic driver in New Mexico . And tourists don 't like to see smoggy skies .

There are 16 what they call

-- the EPA calls Class I national parks , national monuments and wilderness areas within a 100

- mile radius of the Four Corners plant , Bandelier , which is a hop , skip and a jump from Santa Fe , being one of them . And if we want to stay the land of enchantment , we had

-- and keep our clear

-- clean , sparkling blue skies , that we have in

-- still in a good part of the state , then we are to be very seriously supporting EPA 's BART plan .

The national parks bring in something like 18 , 000 jobs a year and thousands and thousands of tourists . So visibility is important in that respect .

And I just want to urge you -- I appreciate the Environment Department in New Mexico . They ' ve done

a lot of good things over time . Last year they did endorse the EPA plan , and now with new members , a new administration , they ' re coming up with their own .

But I would strongly urge you to support the

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# 145

EPA 's plan , which I think is very heavy thought out , it uses technology which is readily available everywhere , and it will be to long

- term good of the state , not just the short

- term good of corporate profits .

So thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . McCallan . Paul Gessing .PAUL GESSING having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . GESSING : Paul , G-E-S-S-I-N-G, Gessing . THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . GESSING : I come here today representing New Mexico 's only free market oriented think tank . We have an interest in this particular issue because we support energy policies that maximize personal responsibility and individual choice . We ' re here in support of the draft State Implementation Plan as proposed by the New Mexico Environmental Department .

While we do have quibbles and have concerns about the general process involving the Environmental Improvement Board , and that is a consistent thing from

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# 146

the previous administration into the current administration , our view is that state dictates are better than federal dictates from Washington , DC . And

so we would rather have decision

- making done here locally rather than coming top - down from Washington .

New Mexico businesses have been hit hard by economic downturn . Energy costs are something that they have very little control over , and yet , as we ' ve seen in recent years , energy costs , electricity costs in particular , have risen dramatically .

We have also studied the impact of New Mexico 's renewable portfolio standard , a state - passed standard that we estimate will increase energy costs -- electricity costs to consumers by $2.3 billion over the next 10 years .

So New Mexico is not sitting on its hands . We have many different policies in place that are designed to address very real environmental concerns . This particular state initiative would have significant salutary impacts on air quality and the quality of life of people living in and around the area affected by the Four Corners plant .

And so we do support this initiative and strongly urge the Environmental Improvement Board to adopt it .

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# 147

Thank you very much . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Gessing . Beverlee McClure .

BEVERLEE MC CLURE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . MC CLURE : Beverlee Mc C lure , B-E-V-E-R-L-E-E, McClure , M-C- cap ital -C-L-U-R-E.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . MC CLURE : Thank you . Madam Chair , members of the committee , as I said , I'm Beverlee McClure . I'm the president of the Association of Commerce and Industry , and we serve as a statewide Chamber of Commerce .

In this capacity , we ' re the only association that represents all business , large and small and all geographic sectors in our state . And so I sit here today in front of you on behalf of the employers . I will tell you that PNM is a member of the Association of Commerce and Industry , as are many other employers that would be negatively impacted if we were to adopt the federal plan .

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# 148

And I know the issue before you is hard , and you ' ve heard lots of testimony . I think the thing to note is that PNM is not resist ing ad dressing the problem , but more importantly , but how to address the problem , and how to do it in a way that helps the environment at the same time without continuing to hurt the economy and the employers in our state .

You probably know that the State of New Mexico is at an all time high with unemployment . Even though

we saw a dip in that the last month , the explanation for that is an un fortunate one . Not because people went back to work , but because their benefits have expired and their jobs are not there . So we stand in a time when we have to look at the economic impact along with the environmental impact , and that 's what I sit here and ask you to do today .

You know , because the state did not have an implementation plan that was adopted , through no fault of their own , PNM found that they were at the mercy of the federal EPA . The EPA came in and has recommended a technology that is pretty expensive , very expensive , $7 50 million to $1 b illion .

So what PNM basically is asked and what the employers of the state is ask ed is is there a way to do this , where we don 't have to in crease the costs , because

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# 149

the business is going to bear the brunt of that , because of the usage that we have with our employers in the state . And so with that , the State Implementation Plan took another look at this and said there is a way , and there is a technology where we can address the issue in the San Juan -- with the haze issue , but at the same time be at a lower cost to PNM , which , in turn , will be

a lower cost for the employers in our state .

And so that 's what we ' re asking for today , is to look at that State Implementation Plan . The EPA recommendation does n't seem to be based on a study of the costs , the impact , even though by their own rules , part of the recommendations for any retrofit technology has to be based on costs and on economic impact , and it does not appear that happened .

So the State Implementation Plan is a chance for us to take another look at this , to look at how to work together to balance the environment with the economy . So on behalf of the employers and the state , I ask you to consider that and consider the ripple effect of that , because this is a time in our state when it 's very important .

Thanks so much . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . McClure .

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# 150 Elizabeth Slota ? MS . SLOTA : My name -- THE REPORTER : Would you raise your right hand , first . ELIZABETH SLOTA having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : And now , please , your name . MS . SLOTA : Elizabeth Slota , S-L-O-T-A. THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . SLOTA : I'm addressing you today as a member of the PNM Forerunners , a retirement group of former employees . I am a member of that association by association with my deceased husband . I am considered a surviving spouse . But I also want to address you as a citizen of New Mexico , about one month short of 43 years . I also came to New Mexico not knowing what it

was , where it was even . My husband , Michael , was in the service at the time , stationed at Kirtland . And fell in love with New Mexico within 24 hours , and have stayed since . And I' ve been asked by the Forerunners to do this , but as I said , I also want to address you as a citizen .

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# 151

The EPA is a federal government entity , and the federal government tends to think in one size fits all . So their plan is probably the same plan that happens in Michigan , New Jersey , where I come from , and anyplace else .

I think that the state now has the opportunity to develop a plan that will be the best for New Mexico , not only in emissions controls and effectiveness on health issues , visibility impact , but the economic impact of this plan .

The state proposal cost to the residential customer is estimated at $ 11 . 50 per year . The EPA program would be $ 82 a year . And we all know that estimates tend to go up rather than down .

But more importantly , not only will the resident

-- residential customer be played

-- be paying

more per year , but it will also affect the cost of businesses , the super market , doctors ' offices , public buildings , and state parks for tourists .

And the way that the businesses will recoup their increased energy cost will be by higher prices in the super market , the doctors ' office . The way the government , state buildings , state parks , et cetera , will recoup their increased cost is through increased taxes . I don 't want either one of those . I'm sure no

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# 152

one wants either one of those .

So I would like you to consider the proposed state plan .

And also , the emissions controls are being met at the standards or even at a higher level . And , you know , it 's kind of like a no - brainer . If you can do the job at a lower cost , why do it at a higher one ?

Thank you for your time and your consideration .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Slota . Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich .

ERIK SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : As an initial matter , I want to note for the record that I'm -- yesterday we submitted an additional letter to the Board that complements our Friday , May 27th letter , and I have copies of that which I' ll provide to the Board . Basically there was an error in our citation , so we corrected that with yesterday 's filing .

But today in terms of public comment , I want to make four basic points that summarizes our perspective at the Western Environmental Law Center , as

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# 153

well as the perspective of several environmental groups . And I' ll just list them very quickly . That would be Dine Care , the Navajo , the Natural Resources Defense Council , New Energy Economy , New Mexico Sportsmen , the Rio Grande Chapter of the Sierra Club , the Sierra Club , San Juans Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians .

And the first point I want to make is that with visibility protections under the Clean Air Act

we ' re really talking about , in my view , two things .

Number one , protection of the iconic landscapes , both in New Mexico and the broader Four Corners region , my home area up in Northern New Mexico and Taos . That means places like Wheeler Peak Wilderness or the Cruces Basin Wilderness or the Latir Peak Wilderness . And these iconic landscapes are very essential to both our culture and also our economy .

The second component of visibility protection is really the public health benefits . Now , these are indirect , because the purpose of visibility protections is really protection of visibility . But there are very significant indirect public health benefits from increased , intensified regional haze protections .

And these can be quantified . And when you ' re talking about visibility protections , what we ' re really talking about is trying to internalize the costs of

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# 154 pollution , and here specifically of nitrogen oxides . Someone at some point is going to bear the costs , whether that 's a rate payer in terms of increased electricity costs or a child getting asthma . At some point , someone has to pay .

Sometimes those costs aren 't internalized . Sometimes they ' re not even recognized . And so that 's what we ' re talking about here , is trying to internalize the costs of haze causing pollution emitted from the San Juan Generating Station .

And we can quantify those impacts . We can also do qualitative analysis of those impacts .

From a quantitative perspective , EPA has estimated that the benefits of region al haze protections would amount to around $8.4 to $9.8 billion a year , that 's annual benefits , while the costs of regional haze protections are far less , at around 1.4 to $1.5 billion . Those are the capital costs of implementing , investing in these pollution control technologies .

And , now , we also can 't put aside the ethics and moral s. That

-- those benefits also re flect the fact that we ' re preventing 1, 600 pre mature death s each year , and also preventing 1 million lost work and school days . Those are things that have concrete economic benefits , but also very personal , moral , ethical impacts

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to families here in New Mexico and the broader region .

Now , the real debate here in terms of technological issues is between the Department 's proposal for SNCR technology , selective non catalytic reduction technology , versus selective catalytic reduction technology , as proposed by the EPA in its proposed Federal Implementation Plan .

Now , we believe very strongly that the SCR technology is mandated and acquired under the Clean Air Act and that ultimately EPA is going to make a determination of whatever this Board decides whether the State Implementation Plan is sufficient , or if this Board decides not to approve the State Implementation Plan , EPA will then put forth its own Federal Implementation Plan .

Now , in terms of the concrete benefits of SCR technology versus SNCR, EPA 's determine d that SCR is more protective . It prevents about 77 to 90 percent of nitrogen oxide emissions from San Juan Generating Station , while SNCR only reduces around 23 to 25 percent of the nitrogen oxides . This is pretty significant . It 's a difference of 17 , 500 tons of nitrogen oxides per year under SCR versus 4, 900 pounds of NO x 

## per year under SNCR. From a cost perspective , SCR technology is

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also far more cost effective ton for ton . When you use SCR technology , you ' re talking about less than $2, 000 per ton of reduced nitrogen oxides . SNCR is far less efficient and actually costs around $3, 700 per ton of reducing nitrogen oxide of pollution .

So from our perspective , the SCR technology is far more protective and also far more cost effective than SNCR technology . So it reflects good science , it reflects good policy , and fundamentally it represents the public interest .

Now , going into my final point here , the Environment Department 's proposal isn 't good science , and it isn 't good policy , and it isn 't in the public interest , and there are three primary

-- or four primary problems with the SNCR proposal .

The first of those problems is that it fixates

on ratepayer impacts . Now , ratepayer impacts are certainly important and a worthy consideration for determining what kind of pollution control reduction technology you want to consider . But you can 't put aside all of those indirect benefits to public health that can be quantified and at least qualitatively analyzed . But under cross

- examination , the Department has admitted , as well as PNM has admitted that they

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# 157 didn 't actually consider the cost of public health or , frankly , the environment . Instead they made a decision that was fixated again exclusively on ratepayer impacts .

And to emphasize , I'm not dismissing those impacts . I'm simply saying those are one factor and there are other factors in terms of costs and benefits of one technology versus another technology .

So fundamentally we think that the SNCR proposal as put forth by the Department and supported by PNM Resources and others elevates the concerns of ratepayer impacts over visibility protections , cost effectiveness and public health . And we think one of the reasons that they ' ve done this is that there 's far too cozy a relationship between PNM Re source s and the Environment Department .

In our comments that we submitted on May 27 th , we noted that EPA and PNM Resources had met the pressure of EPA to adopt a more reduced SNCR proposal or to at least consider the state 's proposal .

And in fact , they ' re apparently having conversations with the Attorney General 's Office , where the Attorney General 's Office has agreed to litigate what they view as , quote , unquote , a flawed EPA proposal , which suggests to us that they ' ve made a pre mature decision to challenge whatever it is that EPA

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# 158 decides to do .

And finally , we think that even if that was not the case , that there was some sort of political influence at play here

-- we think that the State Implementation Plan as proposed by the Environment Department is on very shaky ground on a technical level and conflicts with various findings that EPA has already made in its proposed Federal Implementation Plan .

So I think in significant part we risk wasting New Mexico resources to put forth a plan that ultimately will be rejected by the Environmental Protection Agency . And EPA here , as much as there has been comments that they are trying to impose a federal mandate here on New Mexico , are only doing so as a measure of last re sort , because the State of New Mexico , frankly , has failed in its obligations to submit an acceptable State Implementation Plan .

So the problem here isn 't EPA . EPA is simply doing its job and , quite frankly , is simply trying to represent the broader public interests in terms of visibility protections .

EPA is not alone in recommending SCR technology . The State of Colorado has submitted comments supporting SCR technology . The National Park Service has , the Fish & Wildlife Service has , as well as

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an expert that we contracted to provide comments to EPA , Dr . Sahu , which we provided in our May 27 th comments .

So we would recommend that this Board reject the Department 's proposal and join in those other federal entities in supporting either SCR technology

or -- I think what the easiest thing to do here would be to support EPA 's Federal Implementation Plan .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich .

EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MS . RYAN : I have a question . Yeah . I'm -- our role here is to evaluate the scientific evidence put in front of us , whether that makes the improvements to the environment that we ' re supposed to , and also balance that against other interests of the public , including the health , welfare of this

-- the citizens of New Mexico .

And you ' ve stated several times that several other factors can be quantified .

And I'm just wondering , playing devil 's advocate here , why haven 't they been quantified ? Why does all of the number of environmental groups that you represent , which is quite a number of them , gotten together and

-- and put forth some scientific evidence

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for us to consider ?

Because right now , there is none in front of

us . We have an opinion from

-- an opinion from you , a public comment , and that 's all that we have . And I don 't have -- I don 't have witnesses , I don 't have data , exhibits to consider on anything that you ' re saying . And

-- and as much as I want to be able to consider that , that is not in front of me .

All that I have from you is a public comment . So I -- that will be going into my personal decision

- making , is that I don 't -- we ' re here to -- I want to look at -- sensically look at all the evidence in front of me , and I don 't have technical testimony or anything like that from your organizations .

So , I guess , why ? MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : I actually would respectfully disagree with you , Madam Board Member . I think in terms of technical evidence , you don 't have to go very far . I think you can look at EPA 's Federal Register notice dated January 5 th , 2011 , which goes into detail in support of the selective catalytic reduction technology .

I'd also point to you in the direction of the testimony of Dr . Sahu , and that 's contained in Exhibit A, which we attached to our May 27 th comments . And it 's

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a little confusing here , but it 's Exhibit

-- it 's Exhibit 3, which is attached

-- is part of Exhibit A.

And that 's a technical analysis done by somebody who has , frankly , far more technical expertise than I do , and I wouldn 't wage r to wade into that technical debate . But Dr . Sahu provides a very convincing case of why SCR technology is valuable in this instance . In fact , he critiques EPA 's proposal and says that EPA 's proposal is far too lenient .

So in terms of technical evidence , I don 't think you have to go any farther than the EPA Federal Register notice , as well as Dr . Sahu 's testimony .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Madam Hearing Examiner , I was going to make a clarifying statement or -- in terms of a discussion I had with Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich about the status of the filings that have been made on behalf of his clients .

And my understanding is they are purely public comment , that they are not testimony upon which this Board can rely from a technical and evidentiary standpoint in order to make a determination . If they

are , in fact , being offered as evidence , which is

-- technical evidence and expert evidence , then I'm going to have to object and also request that they be stricken

on several grounds .

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Of course , the materials were submitted untimely pursuant to both the pre hearing order in this

case , as well as in accordance with the Board 's own regulations and rules with respect to rulemaking , which says if you don 't submit your testimony by the deadline , it will not be admitted .

Of course , we have not had an opportunity to

cross - examine or -- anyone from EPA or Dr . Sahu or anyone else , so it 's difficult to respond to what 's been filed . So I think it 's entirely improper for

-- at this juncture to try and bootstrap this commentary into some type of testimony this Board can rely on on a legal basis to make a ruling .

So I request that either those comments be stricken from the record or , alternatively , that it be clear on the record that they are nothing more than public comment and opinion and not -- not evidence in this case . MS . ORTH : All right .

Just to respond before I invite the other counsel , it 's true that the rules and the procedu ral order state that technical testimony not coming in by the deadline set there will not be admitted , but public comment did not have that same deadline .

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Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich and everyone else who made public comment today and will make it tomorrow is entitled to offer that comment , which will be admitted .

So yes , I agree with you , it can 't be technical testimony , and yet I think you went a little too far when you said it can 't be evidence that the Board can rely on , because

-- correct me if I'm wrong , Mr . Vigil -- I believe this Board relies on technical testimony and public comment and the other evidence in front of it . It 's still evidence , but you ' re right that it 's not technical evidence in reaching its decision .

MR . VIGIL : Well , Madam Hearing Officer , I agree that the Board does rely on both public comment and technical testimony .

I think the distinction , though , is that what Mr . Alvidrez is referring to is that the attachment of Dr . Sahu , which may have been technical in nature and

was filed improperly , and I think that 's what

-- if I'm understanding correctly , the objection , that is what he 's asking to be stricken

-- you know , Mr . Goodrich is allowed to make public comment here , as you correctly note , but I think the real -- I guess the heart of the

-- the dispute here is the technical nature of something that came in ostensibly under public comment .

MS . ORTH : All right . And I was getting to

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that . MR . VIGIL : Okay .

MS . ORTH : Sorry . I was making my more basic point first .

So now on the question of whether Dr . Sahu 's -- excuse me -- report should be included , I' ll ask all of the lawyers for their opinion .

First , you , Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Well , let me state first in terms of the objection to the public comment letter , you know , provisions are provided for exhibits . On terms of Dr . Sahu 's exhibit specifically , this was provided to EPA .

And I would agree with counsel for PNM Resources to the extent that with public comment , because it is not subject to the same level of

cross - examination , you do have some discretion to give it lesser weight than other technical evidence . That is certainly within your purview .

I think with Dr . Sahu 's testimony , which has already been submitted to EPA , the Board may be on some shaky ground to ignore evidence that EPA has that it may rely on in rejecting the State Implementation Plan .

So I would suggest that you consider it and , obviously , give it the weight that you think it

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deserves . I have absolutely no problem with that given that we ' re providing public comment , which is of a less technical nature than providing technical testimony through a notice of intent . So I have no problem on that . But I do think it should be considered . I do think it 's part of the record . I simply think you should give it the weight that you think it deserves .

MS . ORTH : Mr . Grantham , do you have anything to add ? MR . GRANTHAM : Yeah .

Madam Hearing Officer , the Department shares the concerns that counsel for PNM raised in particular with regard to Dr . Sahu 's testimony . Technical testimony as defined under 20 .1.1 means scientific , engineering , economic or other specialized testimony , but does not include legal argument , general comments or statements of policy or position .

So to the extent that counsel

-- the conservation groups offer technical testimony , in a submission that was submitted well after the deadline for the notice of intent , I'm not sure how the Board can give that more or less weight . It 's either in or it 's out . And our position would be that the

-- of

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course , the public comments should be accepted into the record and given the weight that the Board deems appropriate , but that should not include the comments of Dr . Sahu . And whether or not EPA views that as relevant in assessing our BART determination isn 't really a factor , because we have to look to the procedural guidelines for this

-- to the governing laws for this proceeding , not EPA 's.

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you , Mr . Grantham .

Mr . Rose ? Oh . MR . ROSE : I'm hiding . Madam Hearing Officer , we would join in the comments from NMED 's counsel and from PNM 's counsel , but I would note that the reason why the Board has a dichotomy between public and technical testimony is , one , to alert those who are going to participate in the hearings ahead of time that there will be technical testimony that they could provide responsive testimony to and that the purpose for providing those in a notice of intent and providing live testimony is to allow for

cross - examination of that testimony .

And with Dr . Sahu 's testimony , we ' re not provide

-- being given the ability to cross - examine and

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# 167 question any of the assertions that he raises in his testimony . And for that reason , I think that the Board 's rules don 't allow for that kind of testimony to be treated as public , because I don 't believe the Board can really differentiate between give

-- just on the weight to give it as to

-- as to how much importance it 's given . I think the Board 's already made that decision when it decided its rules , and that testimony should have been provided in person and subject to

cross - examination . And although Dr . Sahu did testify in front of this Board sometime last summer , if you will recall , on the greenhouse gas rules , so it 's not as though the Board isn 't familiar with him .

But I think that 's the proper way to do this and prevent -- or present his opinions and allow them to be cross - examined and , therefore , the Board be given the benefit of that .

MS . ORTH : All right . Mr . Roybal , do you have anything to add ? MR . ROYBAL : No , Madam Hearing Officer . I would support the comments made by Mr . Rose and Mr . Alvidrez and Department counsel .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you .

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MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Madam Hearing Officer , if I could make one -- I think there 's one important distinction here that has not been considered , and that is Dr . Sahu did not provide testimony specifically regarding the State Implementation Plan , rather these were comments submitted to the Environmental Protection Agency .

So I don 't think it 's necessarily the type of technical testimony that this Board prohibits via public comment , rather this was something submitted already to EPA , that is in front of EPA , and merits consideration by this Board because it is going to be a factor at some level , who knows what weight they will give it , but will be a factor in EPA 's consideration of both its Federal Implementation Plan and the state 's approval .

But it 's not specific to the state implementation process . So I'm not sure it falls under the definition of technical testimony that will be prohibited via public comment .

MS . ORTH : Our general standard for what constitutes technical testimony is testimony that to be competent would require something more than a high school degree . And I -- my impression is that Dr . Sahu 's testimony would meet that criteria .

So , Board , if this were a hearing in which I

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were making a recommendation , for example , to my cabinet secretary , I would recommend that the cabinet secretary not rely on that testimony for the reasons that have been given , it 's surprising , it 's contrary to your rules and the procedural order that I entered back in March , and Dr . Sahu is not here in this hearing to be

cross - examined .

For all of those reasons , my recommendation would be for you not to rely on it .

Mr . Vigil may have more advice for you . MR . VIGIL : Madam Hearing Officer , I believe your recommendation is sound .

I would also point out that the hearing rules , especially Section 304 , which governs participation by the general public , says that public comment is

non technical testimony , and from what we ' ve learned here , it looks that Dr . Sahu , who does have a PhD and , as Mr . Rose noted , did provide some very high level , technical testimony last year in some of the hearings , would definitely qualify as technical testimony .

MS . ORTH : Okay . So , Board , what I don 't want to lose here , then

-- Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich , then the ruling will be that the testimony is excluded .

I don 't want to lose here , though , as part of

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that ruling all of what Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich has said

or everything that was submitted on behalf of the conservation groups . You ' ve heard his other points , and that , as far as I'm concerned , remains part of what you

can base your decision on .

All right . Is there anything else , Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich ?

MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : No . I'm done . MS . ORTH : All right . I think

-- MR . FULFER : I have one question . MS . ORTH : I'm sorry . Mr . Fulfer . MR . FULFER : I have one question . In talking about public health benefits , electricity drives the economy , it drives our modern life . It 's the thing that 's lifted us out of the woodburning cooking era days and woodburning heating days and kind of brought us into a pollution

- free environment , unlike our neighbor to the south , in Mexico . So looking at the state , and being a poor state at that , and the economy being in bad shape , in your opinion , is it in our benefit and balance to all to have a plant that provides a positive economic impact and improving environmental impacts ?

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MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Well , I think , as I mentioned , that at some point the costs are borne by people , whether that 's in terms of an increase in the ratepayer , how much a ratepayer pays to PNM Resources or whether a child ends up having asthma and then has increased health costs .

I certainly have no problem with electricity . I love electricity . I power computers , iPods , my home with it . I think what all my client groups would suggest is that the best way forward in terms of energy is towards a transition to energy efficiency and to clean energy technology , and that is far better both from an electricity

- producing perspective , from an economic perspective and from a public health perspective .

MR . FULFER : Okay . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? No ? All right . Thank you very much . MR . SCHLENKER

- GOODRICH : Thank you , Madam Chair , Board members , Madam Hearing Officer .

MS . ORTH : All right . If there 's nothing else , we will recess and reconvene tomorrow morning in Farmington at 9: 00 a.m. at the college .

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# 172 Anything else at all ? MS . PEACOCK : I'd like to thank everybody who provided testimony today and public comment . We really appreciate it . And this is very interesting for us .

MS . ORTH : Thank you very much . MS . PEACOCK : And we appreciate the written materials , very well prepared .

( Proceedings adjourned at 1:47 p.m. )

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# 173

STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss . COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

I, CHERYL ARREGUIN , the officer before whom the foregoing proceeding was taken , do hereby certify that the witnesses whose testimony appears in the foregoing transcript were duly sworn or affirmed ; that I personally recorded the testimony by machine shorthand ; that said transcript is a true record of the testimony given by said witnesses ; that I am neither attorney nor counsel for , nor related to or employed by any of the parties to the action in which this proceeding is taken , and that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially interested in the action .

NOTARY PUBLIC CCR License Number : 21 Expires : 12 / 31 / 2011 My Commission Expires : 12 / 12 / 11

## $ **$ 10**  [1] - 143 : 12 **$ 10** **. 93**  [1] - 98: 17 **$ 11**  **. 50**  [1] - 151 : 12 **$2, 000**  [2] - 46:9, 156 :2 **$3, 000**  [1] - 46:9 **$3, 500**  [1] - 107 : 17 **$3, 700**  [1] - 156 :4 **$ 300**  [2] - 78 :9, 117 : 12 **$ 320**  [4] - 49 :5, 52 :3, 86:5, 91 :5 **$ 400**  [1] - 57 :2 **$ 50** **, 000**  [1] - 49 :24 **$ 56**  [1] - 85: 15 **$ 750**  [1] - 148 :22 **$ 77**  [2] - 53:4, 88:1 **$ 80**  [1] - 143 :7 **$ 800**  [1] - 46 :8 **$ 82**  [1] - 151 : 13 **$ 85** **. 31**  [1] - 98:21 **$ 900**  [1] - 114 :23



## '

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## 0

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**1** [ 19] - 1:24 , 7:4, 29: 16, 29 : 21 , 30 :2, 51 : 22, 84 :1, 84:4, 98: 17, 112 :1, 112 :20 , 112 : 24 , 113: 13 , 113 : 15, 114:4, 120:6, 120 : 25, 148: 22 , 154 : 23 **1, 000**  [1] - 130:23 **1, 600**  [1] - 154:22 **1.3** [1] - 113 : 12 **1.4** [2] - 98: 18, 154 : 17 **1.5** [1] - 154 : 17 **10** [9] - 7: 17 , 22 :23 , 42 : 22, 90 : 23, 112 :2, 112 : 25, 113: 18 , 138 : 25, 146: 15 **10 ,** **000** [1] - 57:21 **100** [1] - 91 : 16 **100 -** **mile** [1] - 144 : 10 **101** [1] - 5: 14 **103** [1] - 9: 10 **11** [6] - 7: 19 , 42 :22 , 42 :23, 98 :22, 104 :9, 107 :4 **11 -** **01** [4] - 10 :4, 48: 17, 127 : 17 , 139:22 **11 -** **01 (R**  [1] - 1:3 **11 -** **02** [1] - 140 :1 **11 .3**  [2] - 98 :23 , 99 :2 **110** [1] - 5: 15 **1100** [1] - 3:5 **1190** [2] - 2:4, 2: 19 **11 :** **08** [1] - 76 : 14 **11 :** **27** [1] - 76 : 15 **12** [2] - 7:21 , 90 :23 **12 /** **12 /** **11** [1] - 173:22 **12 /** **31 /** **2011** [1] - 173 :20 **122** [1] - 137 :9 **125** [1] - 90: 18 **12 :** **49** [1] - 140 : 17 **12 th**  [1] - 59: 12 **13** [10] - 7:22, 8:4, 8:7, 113: 13 , 113 : 19 , 113 :21 , 114: 15, 114 :23 , 115:5, 134:21 **130** [1] - 5: 17 **132** [1] - 5: 19 **134** [1] - 5:21 **138** [1] - 5:23 **13 th**  [1] - 23:1 **14** [3] - 7:24 , 23 :2, 102 :7 **141** [1] - 6:4 **145** [1] - 6:6 **147** [1] - 6:8 **15** [2] - 8:4, 76 : 13 **150** [1] - 6: 10 **1508** [1] - 2: 13 **152** [1] - 6: 12 **159** [1] - 6: 13 **16** [7] - 8:6, 57 : 13, 71 :6, 111 :8, 112 :8, 125 : 16 , 144:8 **169 A**  [1] - 7:4 **169 B**  [1] - 7:5 **17** [6] - 8:8, 102 : 10 , 103 :5, 107 : 11 , 107 : 12 , 108:1 **17 ,** **500** [1] - 155 :22 **18** [3] - 4:5, 8: 10 , 112 : 12 **18 ,** **000** [1] - 144 : 18 **19** [5] - 8: 12 , 29 : 16 , 102 : 14 , 104:2, 104:6 **1962** [1] - 17 :7 **1969** [1] - 58 : 18 **1977** [1] - 17 :7 **1981** [1] - 98 :2 **1: 00**  [1] - 128 :20 **1: 05**  [1] - 140 : 18 **1: 47**  [1] - 172 :8 **1 st**  [2] - 1: 16 , 17 :21 

## 2

**2** [ 10] - 7:5, 36 : 13 , 84:1, 84:4, 106: 11 , 109 : 11 , 112 :20 , 120 :4, 120 :25, 130: 10 **2.3** [1] - 146 : 14 **2.5** [7] - 113 :6, 113 :25, 114:1, 114:2, 114 : 16 , 115:5 **20** [18] - 7:22, 7:24 , 8: 14 , 8: 16 , 18 :3, 23:25, 24 :4, 24:6, 26:3, 26:21 , 29: 17, 33: 11 , 33 : 12, 67 :7, 104 :22 , 136:23 , 143 :3, 143 :7 **20 .1.1**  [2] - 10: 10, 165 : 15 **20 .2.** **81** [1] - 7:24 **200** [1] - 3: 11 **200 -** **megawatt** [1] - 90: 18 **2003** [9] - 16 :8, 16: 12, 16 : 17, 17 :8, 20: 14, 21 :7, 21 : 14, 22 :3, 22 : 15 **2004** [1] - 33 :25 **2005** [ 10] - 21 : 15, 34:8, 34: 18 , 86:2, 86:23, 91 :5, 91 :8, 94:2, 94: 10 , 110 :23 **2006** [2] - 21 :20 , 91 :8 **2007** [7] - 79 :4, 91 :9, 94:5, 104 :24, 108 :9, 109 :4, 109 :5 **2009** [8] - 34 :8, 34: 18, 49 :5, 49: 16, 72 :8, 86:23 , 91 :6, 110 :24 **2010** [7] - 22 :9, 26:21 , 26 :23, 31 :5, 55: 12, 67 :1, 67:4 **2011** [ 14] - 1: 16 , 7:22 , 7:24 , 8:4, 8:7, 8:8, 8: 11 , 8: 16, 8:21 , 16: 14, 107 :4, 107 : 14 , 109 :3, 160 :20 **2013** [3] - 24 : 11 , 114 :9, 124 :7 **2018** [6] - 24 :3, 24 :6, 34:1, 35: 12 , 114 : 10 , 124 :7 **2053** [1] - 89 :1 **2064** [5] - 24 : 13 , 35:6, 88: 13 , 88: 16, 124 :23 **208** [1] - 3: 16 **20 th**  [3] - 17:21 , 23:3, 25:2 **21** [6] - 8: 17 , 26 :2, 29: 17, 29 :21 , 30 :2, 173 :20 **22** [3] - 85 :9, 110: 12 , 112 : 12 **23** [6] - 81 :8, 95 : 13 , 95: 14, 111 :21 , 122 :3, 155 :20 **2307** [1] - 3:22 **24** [2] - 102 : 14, 150 :22 **24 /7**  [1] - 136 : 16 **25** [7] - 8:21 , 112 :8, 113 :5, 113 :24 , 114:3, 128 :22 , 155:20 **25 th**  [1] - 25:4 **27** [1] - 81 :8 **27 th**  [6] - 24:23 , 129 :8, 152 : 19 , 157 : 16 , 159:2, 160:25 **28** [1] - 24 : 18 **28 .2.** **81** [1] - 22 :25 **280** [1] - 137 : 10 **28 th**  [1] - 17: 19 **29 th**  [1] - 20:4 **2 nd**  [2] - 17 :21 , 22 :23 

## 3

**3** [ 12] - 7:6, 33 :22 , 84:2, 84:4, 90 :8, 95: 10, 120 :6, 120 :25, 121 :4, 121 : 11 , 132 : 19 , 161 :2 **30** [28] - 4:7, 7:4, 7:5, 7:7, 7:9, 7: 11 , 7: 13 , 7: 14 , 7: 15, 7: 16 , 7: 18, 7:20 , 7:21 , 7:23 , 7:25, 8:5, 8:7, 8:8, 8:9, 8: 11 , 8: 13 , 8: 16 , 8:21 , 85: 18, 98 :6, 137 :8, 138 : 10 , 138: 15 **300** [1] - 3: 10 **300 -** **kilometer** [1] - 111 :9 **304** [1] - 169 : 14 **307** [1] - 1: 19 **308** [2] - 7:7, 21 :22 **309** [ 19] - 7:9, 7: 18 , 15: 18, 15 :20, 16 :2, 16:7, 16: 12 , 16:21 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 1

16:23, 17 :2, 17:8, 18:5, 21 :5, 21 :21 , 21 :23, 22 :3, 22 : 13, 23:7, 24:7 **309 (g**  [ 12] - 7:20 , 7:22 , 8: 15, 8:20 , 16:22, 17 :1, 17: 12, 17: 19, 21 :5, 23:4, 23: 18, 33 : 14 **32** [1] - 4:8 **320** [1] - 91 : 10 **325** [1] - 3:23 **35** [1] - 83 :3 **37** [1] - 84 :2 **39104** [1] - 7: 11 **394** [1] - 136 :22 

## 4

**4** [8] - 7:8, 33:22 , 84:2, 84:5, 85 :21 , 121 :1, 121 :8, 134 :23 **4, 900**  [3] - 49 : 14 , 107 : 16 , 155:23 **4.5** [1] - 121 : 10 **40** [6] - 7:6, 7:8, 7: 10 , 15: 19, 21 :23, 27 :7 **400** [2] - 85:5, 90:6 **43** [1] - 150: 17 **44** [4] - 56 :20 , 85: 10 , 86: 12, 94 :1 **45** [1] - 4:9 **46** [1] - 136:25 **47** [1] - 49 :23 **48** [1] - 4: 11 **490** [1] - 1: 19 **4s** [1] - 121 :8 

## 5

**5** [5] - 7: 10, 33 :23, 95:9, 121 :1, 121 :3 **5.2. 11**  [2] - 7: 18 , 7:20 **50** [4] - 4: 13 , 33 : 16 , 88: 19, 88 :23 **500** [2] - 3:5, 85 :7 **500 ,** **000** [2] - 83 :21 , 83:22 **505** [4] - 2: 14 , 3:6, 3: 12 , 3:24 **51** [2] - 7: 11 , 45 :8 **51 .** **308** [1] - 7:6 **51 .** **309** [3] - 7:8, 15: 19, 21 :23 **526** [1] - 136 :25 **53** [1] - 88 : 14 **54** [2] - 4: 15, 49 : 15 **54 .8**  [1] - 137 :4**5469** [1] - 2: 18 **55** [5] - 33 : 13 , 33: 15, 33: 16, 33 : 20, 85 : 16 **56** [3] - 4: 17 , 33 : 13 , 33: 19 **57** [1] - 34 :22 **575** [2] - 2:20 , 3: 18 **58** [1] - 4: 19 **598 -** **4358** [1] - 3: 12 **5 th**  [1] - 160: 20 

## 6

**6** [3] - 8:5, 33: 23 **6, 000** **- plus**  [1] - 74 :5 **6.4** [2] - 85: 17, 137 :5 **602** [1] - 3: 17 **61** [1] - 4:21 **613 -** **4197** [1] - 3: 18 **63** [1] - 33 : 17 **64** [1] - 4:23 **65** [1] - 49 :23 **69** [1] - 4:25 **6a** [1] - 7: 12 **6i** [1] - 7: 12 

## 7

**7** [3] - 33 : 23 , 98 :22 , 102 : 10 **7, 000**  [1] - 48 :20 **70** [2] - 7: 11 , 114:24 **71** [1] - 86 :9 **72** [1] - 49 :23 **74** [1] - 5:4 **77** [2] - 5:5, 155 : 18 **779 -** **1627** [1] - 2:20 **7a** [1] - 7: 14 **7d** [1] - 42 :21 **7u** [1] - 7: 14 

## 8

**8** [2] - 33 : 23 , 94 :5 **8.4** [2] - 39: 13, 154 : 15 **80** [3] - 67 :2, 67 :6, 142 :6 **82** [1] - 5:7 **824 -** **4737** [1] - 3:6 **827 -** **6040** [1] - 2: 14 **83** [1] - 8:25 **85** [1] - 118:6 **87** [1] - 5:8 **87102** [1] - 3:6 **87401** [1] - 3: 11 **87501** [1] - 2:5 **87502 -** **5469** [1] - 2:20 **87504 -** **1508** [1] - 2: 13 **87504 -** **2307** [1] - 3:23 **87571** [1] - 3: 17 **8a** [3] - 7: 15, 16 :1, 20:25 **8b** [1] - 20 :25 **8c** [3] - 7: 15, 17 : 17 , 21 :1 

## 9

**9** [4] - 33 :5, 94 :5, 102 :6, 120 :22 **9-1** [4] - 33 :5, 33 : 17 , 33:22, 35 : 10 **9-2** [1] - 33 :22 **9.2** [1] - 33:6 **9.2.1** [1] - 33 :5 **9.8** [1] - 154 : 15 **90** [1] - 155: 18 **93** [1] - 133:24 **96** [1] - 5: 10 **97** [1] - 9:6 **982 -** **3873** [1] - 3:24 **99** [1] - 5: 12 **9: 00**  [2] - 140 :24, 171 :25 **9: 40**  [1] - 1:20 **9a** [4] - 7: 16 , 16 : 16 , 19: 15, 22 :22 **9b** [3] - 7: 16 , 19 : 16 , 23: 17 

## A

**a.m** [5] - 1:20 , 76 : 14 , 76: 15, 140 :24 , 171 :25 **ability** [2] - 80: 18 , 166 :25 **able** [ 11 ] - 45 :24 , 73: 15, 79 : 11 , 79 : 15, 93:7, 93: 18 , 93:21 , 128 :21 , 135: 10 , 136 :2, 160 :7 **about -** **face** [1] - 55:20 **absolutely** [2] - 140 : 14 , 165:1 **Academy** [2] - 67:25, 68: 13 **accept** [8] - 11 : 12 , 13:4, 22 : 16 , 47:2, 88:3, 88:7, 139:9, 141 :1 **acceptable** [3] - 43: 13, 43 : 14, 158 : 16 **accepted** [6] - 27:25, 28: 18, 44 :4, 63: 11 , 76: 19, 166 :1 **accepting** [2] - 38: 15, 46 :20 **accepts** [1] - 28:22 **access** [1] - 124 :25 **accidentally** [1] - 102 :7 **accommodation** [1]

- 128 :25 **accomplished** [1] - 49:3 **accordance** [2] - 10:9, 162 :3 **according** [1] - 65 : 13 **account** [5] - 41 : 15, 72 : 17, 73 :20, 98 : 14 , 123 :25 **accountable** [1] - 72 : 14 **accounting** [1] - 91 :23 **accurate** [1] - 137 :3 **achieve** [7] - 52 :6, 53:4, 80: 19 , 114 : 15, 124 :22 , 125: 16 **achieved** [1] - 125 :20 **achieving** [2] - 88: 13, 88 : 15 **acid** [1] - 94 : 14 **acquired** [1] - 155 :9 **act** [4] - 21 :9, 85 :3, 112 : 18 **Act** [6] - 7:4, 7:5, 54:24, 114 :7, 153 :8, 155 : 10 **acted** [1] - 16 :8 **action** [5] - 51 :24 , 53: 13, 53 : 14, 173 : 14 , 173 : 17 **activities** [3] - 85 :23, 94:4 **actual** [6] - 13 : 17 , 28: 14, 33 :21 , 34 : 10 , 34: 18, 143 : 12 **add** [6] - 28 :25, 104 : 13 , 112 : 15, 115 :24 , 165: 10 , 167 :21 **added** [3] - 25 :6, 25:7, 94: 15 **adding** [1] - 114 :22 **addition** [1] - 28 :25 **additional** [ 15] - 7: 17 , 7: 19 , 16 :23 , 22 :25, 23 :5, 42 :24, 42 :25, 52 :5, 87:2, 88:8, 99:2, 109:6, 125 :7, 126 :25, 152 : 18 **Ad ditionally**  [1] - 102 : 11 **additions** [1] - 106 :20 **address** [ 12] - 21 : 19 , 49: 10, 65 :8, 65:25, 78: 19, 110 : 17 , 127:6, 146 : 18 , 148:4, 149:6, 150 : 16 , 150:24 **addressed** [2] - 16: 17, 110 :25 **addressing** [3] - 65:4, 148 :3, 150 : 12 **adds** [1] - 40:20 **adequacy** [1] - 77 : 11 **adequately** [1] - 55:21 **adjourned** [1] - 172 :8 **administration** [4] - 98:3, 144 :24, 146 :1, 146 :2 **Ad ministrative**  [2] - 29:8, 29: 10 **administrator** [1] - 11 :3 **admission** [4] - 29: 15, 83 :8, 97: 15, 103 : 18 **admissions** [1] - 29:20 **ADMITTED** [3] - 7:2, 8:2, 9:2 **admitted** [ 13] - 30:1, 30:2, 83: 10 , 83: 11 , 97: 18, 97 :20, 103 :21 , 103 :22 , 156:25, 162 :6, 162 :24 , 163:3 **adopt** [12] - 29 :3, 48:25, 82 :21 , 97 : 11 , 102 : 19 , 103: 14 , 131 :23 , 134:7, 137 : 18 , 146:25, 147 :24 , 157: 18 **adopted** [2] - 21 : 14 , 148 : 18 **adoption** [1] - 80 :24 **Ad option**  [1] - 8: 13 **advantage** [1] - 38: 16 **advice** [1] - 169: 10 **advises** [1] - 29:5 **advocacy** [1] - 55 :1 **advocate** [2] - 52 : 19 , 159 :22 **advocated** [1] - 54:24 **affect** [2] - 71 : 11 , 151 : 17 **affected** [5] - 70 : 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 2

71 :2, 71 :6, 71 : 10 , 146 :21 **affecting** [1] - 25 : 18 **affects** [1] - 65 :1 **affirmed** [24] - 18 : 11 , 48:4, 50: 15, 54:7, 56: 13, 58 :9, 61 :9, 64: 10, 69 :20, 74 : 19 , 81 :23, 82 :2, 96:9, 101 : 15, 130:4, 132 : 13 , 134: 14 , 138 :4, 141 : 17 , 145:9, 147 :5, 150 :6, 152 : 13 , 173 :9 **afforded** [1] - 31 : 12 **afternoon** [1] - 129 : 11 **agencies** [1] - 24 : 16 **Ag ency**  [3] - 3:20, 158 : 11 , 168:7 **ago** [6] - 13 : 19 , 40: 12, 60 : 16, 95 :2, 142 : 14 **agree** [3] - 163 :4, 163 : 13 , 164: 14 **agreed** [2] - 62 :4, 157 :22 **agreement** [4] - 22 :8, 30:4, 38:4, 91 : 12 **agreements** [2] - 84: 11 **ahead** [6] - 61 :1, 81 :20, 81 :24, 96 :5, 112 :4, 166 : 19 **aid** [1] - 77:5 **aiding** [1] - 67 : 18 **Ai r**  [13] - 7:4, 7:5, 15:5, 15:7, 18 : 19 , 20:8, 20: 18 , 25: 16, 39:25, 54 :24, 114 :7, 153 :8, 155 :9 **air** [23] - 49 :2, 52 :4, 55:1, 56:21 , 57:7, 58:20, 61 :20, 62 :2, 66:8, 67:21 , 68: 10, 75: 18, 75 : 19, 78 : 10 , 102 : 11 , 104:7, 108:2, 108 :4, 109 :7, 123 :5, 125 :9, 143 : 15, 146: 20 **Al amos**  [3] - 56 :21 , 56:25, 57 :5 **Al buquerque**  [9] - 3:6, 22 :6, 22 : 12 , 61 :24, 63 :22, 65 :9, 70: 10, 96 :23, 138 : 15 **alcoholics** [1] - 57:22 **alert** [2] - 128:23 , 166 : 18 **allegiance** [1] -52 : 10 **Al liance**  [8] - 3: 14 , 12 :9, 24: 22 , 31 :1, 48: 15, 48 : 19, 99 :23 , 153 :6 **allow** [6] - 28 :5, 45: 18, 107 :8, 166 :22 , 167 :4, 167 : 17 **allowed** [2] - 28:4, 163 : 21 **allows** [3] - 23:6, 43:7, 43: 10 **alluded** [1] - 137:2 **alluding** [1] - 121 :5 **almost** [3] - 60 : 19 , 104 :9, 143 :1 **alone** [1] - 158 :22 **alternative** [1] - 53 :8 **alternatively** [1] - 162 : 16 **alternatives** [4] - 53: 11 , 53 : 13, 75 : 11 , 88:9 **altogether** [1] - 57: 17 **Al vi** **drez** [ 16] - 5:5, 5:7, 5: 10, 5: 14, 11 :23, 12 :1, 30:7, 76 :23 , 77:1, 95: 17 , 100 :24 , 123 : 21 , 126:4, 127 : 13 , 163: 16 , 167 : 24 **AL VIDREZ**  [41 ] - 3:3, 11 : 24, 29 : 23, 30 :9, 76: 24, 81 : 18, 81 :25, 82 :5, 83:7, 83 : 12 , 87:6, 95: 18 , 95:25, 96:6, 96: 12 , 96: 13, 96: 15, 97 : 14, 97 :21 , 99:4, 100 : 25, 101 :6, 101 :9, 101 : 12 , 101 : 17 , 101 : 23 , 102 :2, 102 : 18 , 102 : 22 , 103:2, 103:6, 103 : 11 , 103: 17 , 103 : 23 , 104: 14 , 107 : 20 , 109: 14 , 123 : 22 , 126:5, 127 : 14 , 161 : 13 **American** [4] - 85:9, 85: 11 , 135 : 17 , 136:23 **Americans** [1] - 136 : 25 **ammonia** [3] - 93:7, 93:8, 93: 11 **amount** [8] - 43: 12, 43: 14, 52 :5, 106 :3, 132 :2, 143 : 16 , 154: 15 **analyses** [9] - 16 :20 , 104 : 12 , 104: 13 , 108 :7, 108 :9, 109 :1, 109 :6, 109 :8, 111 :3 **analysis** [50] - 25 : 11 , 28:3, 28: 18 , 31 : 10, 31 : 19, 32 :1, 40:21 , 41 :1, 41 :25, 42 :7, 42 :9, 42 :23 , 52 : 13, 53: 12, 55 :8, 79:4, 79: 12, 86 : 18, 86 :20 , 86:21 , 98 : 13, 99 :25, 100 :3, 100 :6, 100 : 11 , 102 :9, 104 :23 , 105:7, 107 :5, 107 :6, 107 : 10 , 107 : 14 , 108: 13 , 109 :3, 109 :5, 110 :9, 110 :20 , 111 :22 , 112 : 10 , 119:5, 125 : 13 , 125: 14 , 125 : 18 , 125:23 , 125 :24 , 154: 12 , 161 :3 **analyze** [1] - 115:7 **analyzed** [3] - 123 :2, 126 :20 , 156:23 **An derson**  [1] - 98 :4 **ANDREW** [1] - 3:21 **annual** [6] - 49 :24 , 85: 15, 85 : 17, 117 :5, 154 : 16 **annualized** [1] - 43:1 **answer** [7] - 41 : 14 , 42 : 14, 45 :5, 53: 15, 79: 11 , 93 :6, 109 : 12 **anyplace** [1] - 151 :5 **anyw ay**  [3] - 14 : 10 , 51 :1, 121 :24 **Ap ache**  [1] - 34 :24 **apologize** [3] - 36: 10, 38 : 12, 121 : 19 **apparent** [1] - 80:22 **appeal** [1] - 68 :2 **appear** [1] - 149 : 16 **appearances** [3] - 10:8, 11 : 14 , 32 :6 **Ap pendix**  [3] - 7: 10, 42 :22, 45 :8 **applications** [1] - 108 :4 **applied** [2] - 105:24, 117 :3 **applies** [1] - 21 :23 **apply** [1] - 115: 12 **appointed** [2] - 10 :3, 67:25 **appreciate** [8] - 70:6, 130 : 15, 132 :6, 136 : 12 , 137:24 , 144 :20 , 172 :4, 172 :6 **appropriate** [3] - 79:23, 112 : 15, 166:3 **approvable** [2] - 22 :4, 22 :7 **approval** [1] - 168 : 15 **approve** [7] - 16: 14, 37:20, 41 :20, 53 :6, 53:7, 122 : 12, 155 : 13 **approved** [9] - 16 :7, 20: 15, 21 :8, 22 : 14, 36: 19, 37 : 16, 37 : 18 , 119 : 12 , 120:8 **Ap ril**  [1] - 17:21 **AQ C**  [1] - 123 :1 **area** [31 ] - 16 : 17, 16: 19, 21 :25, 22 :1, 33: 17, 39 : 15, 40 :6, 40:8, 40: 18 , 40:22, 71 :22, 73 : 13, 73 : 17 , 78:6, 85: 13 , 86:1, 104 :8, 114 : 11 , 123:3, 123 :6, 125 : 10 , 128:7, 130 :25, 133:21 , 135 :3, 137 : 13 , 142 :9, 142 :23 , 143: 17 , 146 :21 , 153: 12 **areas** [33] - 16 :23 , 17:2, 21 :24 , 23:5, 23:24, 24 :5, 24:8, 25: 19, 32 : 19, 34 :5, 35: 11 , 36 :1, 51 : 15, 60: 12, 71 :1, 71 :5, 71 :6, 71 :9, 75 : 16 , 90: 19, 100 : 13 , 104 : 17 , 106: 16 , 108 :23 , 111 :8, 112 :9, 124 : 14 , 124:21 , 125 : 16 , 135: 19 , 144 : 10 **argue** [2] - 67 : 10 , 90: 10 **argument** [1] - 165 : 17 **arguments** [1] - 52 :24 **Ari zona**  [2] - 21 :20, 135 :1 **arrangement** [1] - 117 : 16 **Arreguin** [1] - 10:25 **ARREGUIN** [1] - 173 :6 **Arrington** [1] - 3: 10 **arrived** [1] - 22 :8 **ash** [2] - 66: 14, 137 : 11 **aside** [2] - 154:20 , 156 :21 **aspects** [1] - 108 : 13 **assertions** [1] - 167 :1 **assess** [1] - 106 :8 **assessing** [2] - 78:24, 166 :5 **assessment** [1] - 77: 11 **assistance** [3] - 27:8, 67: 17 **Assistant** [1] - 2: 11 **assistant** [3] - 11 : 18, 104 :21 , 108: 10 **assisted** [1] - 108 : 10 **associated** [3] - 42 :1, 98: 11 , 133 : 12 **Association** [2] - 147 : 16 , 147:22 **association** [3] - 147 : 18 , 150: 14 , 150 : 15 **assumptions** [1] - 41 :6 **assure** [1] - 13 : 11 **asthma** [6] - 71 : 14 , 71 : 16, 75 : 14, 143 : 16 , 154 :4, 171 :5 **atomic** [1] - 57 :1 **attached** [2] - 160 :25, 161 :2 **attachment** [1] - 163 : 16 **attacks** [1] - 71 : 14 **attention** [3] - 29 : 11 , 69: 16, 137 :24 **attorney** [4] - 15:1, 77:1, 173 : 12, 173 : 15 **Attorney** [4] - 2: 11 , 2: 12 , 157 :21 , 157 :22 **Attorneys** [2] - 3:4, 3:22 **audience** [1] - 56 : 19 **Au gust**  [2] - 22 :9, 41 :21 **authorized** [1] - 28:7 **Available** [6] - 17:6, 17:9, 22 : 17 , 23:20, 26:25, 27 : 19 **available** [9] - 12 :25, 15:22, 60 :8, 72 :1, 86: 15, 88 :4, 105 :23 , 119 :25, 145:2 **average** [1] - 117 :20 **aw are**  [ 10] - 40 : 10 , 68:6, 68: 11 , 96: 16, 119 : 12 , 119: 14 , 119 : 17 , 121 :25, 130 :20 , 138: 18 **aw estruck**  [1] - 58: 19 **Aztec** [1] - 135 : 18



## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 3 **B**

**B&V-4** [1] - 102 : 15 **B-A-N-D- Y**  [1] - 132 : 18 **B-R-O-W-N** [1] - 64: 16 **baby** [2] - 115 :9, 115 : 14 **bachelor** [3] - 19 :5, 98:1, 104 :4 **background** [5] - 19:4, 83:1, 97 :25, 103 :25, 107:25 **backstop** [3] - 21 : 16 , 21 : 17, 38 : 18 **BACT** [3] - 104 : 13 , 116 :25, 117:3 **bad** [1] - 170:22 **bagful** [1] - 59: 16 **baghouse** [2] - 91 : 14 **balance** [6] - 50:1, 87:3, 139 :7, 149 : 19 , 159 : 16 , 170:23 **balanced** [3] - 117 :24 , 118:3, 121 : 16 **balancing** [2] - 31 :24, 117 :22 **ballpark** [1] - 46 : 10 **Bandelier** [1] - 144 : 11 **BANDY** [4] - 5: 18, 132 : 12 , 132 : 18 , 134 : 12 **Bandy** [1] - 132 : 18 **bar** [1] - 40 :7 **BART** [57] - 7: 10 , 7: 14 , 17: 10 , 17: 14, 26:9, 26: 16 , 26:20, 27: 10, 27 :23, 37 :7, 38:9, 44: 19 , 45:7, 45: 10, 46 :2, 46:3, 46: 12, 72 :24, 78 : 14 , 79:4, 79:9, 80 : 14 , 80: 17, 81 :3, 86: 18, 86:23, 92 : 15, 102 :8, 104 : 11 , 104:23 , 105 :6, 105 :8, 105 :20 , 107 :4, 107 :6, 107 :8, 107 :9, 107 : 14 , 114:6, 116 :25, 118:21 , 119 :7, 119 : 12 , 119 :24 , 120: 14 , 122 :2, 123 :8, 124 :9, 125 :8, 125 :9, 125 : 13 , 125 :23 , 125:24 , 142 :5, 144 : 16 , 166:5 **BARTs** [3] - 119:6, 119 : 14 , 119: 18**base** [ 12] - 42 :3,

64:2, 83: 17 , 83: 18, 84: 19, 89 :9, 89: 10, 90:6, 133 : 23, 134 :2, 134 :5, 170 :5 **based** [ 13] - 28:5, 31 :6, 32 : 12 , 35: 13, 35: 14, 35 : 15, 39 : 15, 70:9, 87: 22 , 98: 13, 110 :2, 149 : 12 , 149: 15 **baseline** [ 10] - 23 : 11 , 34:1, 41 :8, 110:21 , 110 : 22 , 111 :7, 111 : 12 , 111 : 17 , 112 :5, 123 :1 **baselines** [4] - 41 :2, 41 :9, 41 : 11 , 41 : 15 **basic** [2] - 152 :24 , 164 :3 **Basin** [1] - 153 : 14 **basing** [1] - 72 : 18 **basis** [ 11 ] - 20:20, 34:3, 111 : 18, 111 :23 , 112 :7, 112 : 10 , 112 : 13 , 114:5, 162 : 14 **BATES** [27] - 4:4, 18: 10, 18 : 17, 18 : 19 , 18: 23, 19 :2, 19:5, 19:9, 19: 15, 21 :6, 24: 19, 33 :2, 33:9, 33: 12, 33 : 16, 33 :20 , 34:2, 34:6, 34 : 13 , 34: 15, 34 : 17, 35 :1, 35: 10, 35 : 23, 37 : 19 , 39: 17, 39 : 22 **Bates** [8] - 7: 16 , 15:4, 18: 15, 18: 17, 21 :3, 24: 15, 26:6, 32 : 18 **Bates '**  [1] - 16 : 16 **BE** [1] - 1: 16 **bear** [2] - 149:1, 154 :2 **beat** [1] - 81 :8 **Beaumont** [1] - 69: 11 **beautiful** [2] - 70 :23 , 75: 17 **became** [2] - 57:22 , 80: 22 **becomes** [1] - 11 :2 **becoming** [2] - 44: 12, 108 :5 **beef** [1] - 97: 25 **BEFORE** [1] - 1:1 **began** [3] - 22 :9, 108 : 16 , 110: 23 **BEGAY** [3] - 5:20 , 134 : 13 , 134: 19 **Begay** [2] - 134:20, 138 :1 **begin** [5] - 11 :20, 14:2, 97:24 , 122 : 18 , 141 :9 **beginning** [1] - 117 :7 **Behalf** [3] - 8:24 , 9:5, 9:9 **behalf** [ 11 ] - 12 :2, 29:23, 61 :25, 81 : 19 , 82 : 14, 134 :22 , 134 :23 , 147:21 , 149 :20 , 161 : 16 , 170 :2 **behind** [1] - 74 :8 **belov ed**  [1] - 62 :1 **below** [2] - 95 : 14 , 125 :4 **Benedict** [1] - 68 :1 **beneficial** [2] - 110 : 10 , 137: 13 **benefit** [4] - 52 : 12, 132 :4, 167 : 19 , 170:23 **benefit /** **cost** [1] - 52 :7 **benefits** [20] - 31 : 10, 31 : 15, 45 :9, 45: 12, 59:25, 60 :9, 60: 13, 78: 10, 148 : 12 , 153 : 18 , 153:21 , 154 : 14 , 154: 16 , 154 :21 , 154:25, 155 : 16 , 156:21 , 157 :6, 170 : 14 **benefitted** [2] - 135 :25, 136:6 **BERNALILLO** [1] - 173 :3 **best** [12] - 13 :9, 13: 10, 23 :25, 24 :4, 65: 17, 72 :1, 86: 15, 88:4, 119 :25, 135 : 12 , 151 :7, 171 : 11 **Best** [6] - 17 :6, 17 :9, 22 : 17, 23 :20, 26 :25, 27: 19 **better** [7] - 14 : 16 , 37:22, 63 :2, 116 : 14 , 139 :6, 146 :3, 171 : 13 **between** [31 ] - 17 :7, 18:4, 21 :4, 24 : 12 , 26: 13, 26 :21 , 27 :22 , 27:24, 28 : 15, 35 : 19 , 37:25, 50 :1, 65: 12, 71 : 19, 73 :3, 79: 16, 80:9, 80: 16 , 90:25, 100 :8, 115 :2, 115 :5, 115 :6, 115 :22 , 116 : 17 , 139:7, 155:3, 157 : 14 , 166: 17 , 167 :6 **Beverlee** [4] - 141 :4, 147 :3, 147 : 10 , 147: 15 **BEVERLEE** [3] - 6:7, 147 :4, 147 : 11 **beyond** [4] - 32 :25, 41 : 13, 55 :6, 124 : 15 **BHP** [3] - 3: 10 , 13:22, 136 : 10 **biased** [1] - 72 : 19 **Big** [1] - 57 :20 **big** [4] - 73 :3, 73 :24 , 75: 12, 127 :20 **bigger** [1] - 126:2 **bill** [8] - 52 :9, 98 : 10 , 98: 16, 98 : 19, 98 :21 , 98:23, 100 :5 **BILL** [1] - 2: 17 **Bill** [2] - 11 : 18, 14:25 **bill .** **grantham @**  **state .**  **nm .**  **us** [1] - 2:21 **billion** [7] - 52 :5, 53:9, 88: 11 , 146 : 14 , 148 :22 , 154: 15, 154 : 17 **Billiton** [3] - 3: 10, 13:23, 136 : 10 **bills** [3] - 27 :9, 53: 18, 143 :8 **biology** [1] - 19:6 **Bishop** [1] - 69 :8 **bit** [6] - 15 : 11 , 39 :20 , 73: 16, 78 :3, 110 : 11 , 115 : 12 **bituminous** [1] - 38:2 **Black** [ 12] - 9:7, 79 :3, 98: 14, 101 :22 , 103:4, 104 :1, 104 :6, 104 :22 , 108 :1, 108 :6, 110 :2, 113 : 11 **blackmailed** [1] - 53:6 **blame** [1] - 50 :24 **BLM** [1] - 134:1 **Bloomfield** [1] - 135 : 18 **blue** [2] - 142 :3, 144 : 14 **BOARD** [5] - 1:1, 32 : 16, 87 :24, 110 :5, 159 : 11 **board** [2] - 69 : 11 , 90: 16 **Board** [ 102] - 1: 18, 2:6, 4:8, 5:8, 5: 15, 6: 13 , 10:3, 11 :6, 11 :25, 12 :25, 13 :7, 14: 12, 14 :24, 15 : 12 , 16:7, 20: 15, 24: 12, 24:23, 25 :2, 29:3, 29:5, 32 : 13 , 36:8, 41 :24, 42 : 13, 43 : 15, 44:7, 44: 14 , 44:25, 46: 19, 47 : 16, 50 : 10 , 50:23, 56 : 19, 75 :1, 75:4, 76: 10 , 76:25, 77:5, 77: 17 , 78:23, 79: 19, 79 :20, 80 :2, 80:5, 82 :24 , 83: 13, 87:20, 87 :21 , 91 :3, 95: 16, 96 : 19, 97 :23 , 100 :20 , 100:21 , 104 : 17 , 107:21 , 110 :1, 110 : 10 , 116 :21 , 122 : 10 , 123 :20 , 123:23 , 126 : 12 , 127:5, 127 :25, 137: 18 , 138 : 13 , 138: 16 , 138 : 18 , 139:9, 139 : 16 , 141 : 13 , 145 :25, 146:24 , 152 : 18 , 152 :20 , 155 : 11 , 155: 13 , 159 :3, 160 : 17 , 161 :20 , 162 : 13 , 163 :7, 163 :8, 163 : 13 , 164 :21 , 165:22 , 166 :2, 166 : 16 , 167:5, 167 : 13 , 167: 15, 167 : 18 , 168:9, 168 : 12 , 168:25, 169 :22 , 171 : 18 , 171 :22 **Board 's**  [8] - 10: 10, 25:23, 77 : 11 , 81 :2, 96:2, 162 :3, 167 :3, 167 :9 **Boardman** [3] - 119 : 10 , 119: 11 , 121 :25 **body** [2] - 137 : 16 , 137 :21 **boiler** [15] - 59 : 17 , 93: 11 , 116 :1, 117 :23 , 117 :24 , 118:1, 118:2, 118 : 10 , 118: 12 , 118 : 16 , 123: 13 , 123 : 15, 123: 17 **bombs** [1] - 57 :1 **bootstrap** [1] - 162 : 12 **border** [1] - 135 :2 **borderline** [1] - 88: 11 **born** [1] - 62 :1 **borne** [2] - 100:7, 171 :2 **Bosque** [1] - 34 :24 **bottom** [3] - 60 : 12 , 112 : 11 , 143:1 **bounce** [1] - 36 : 10 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 4

**bounds** [1] - 28 : 17 **Box** [2] - 2: 18 , 3:22 **brainer** [1] - 152 :6 **bread** [1] - 68 : 10 **break** [9] - 46:20 , 46:23, 76 :7, 76: 10, 76: 17, 76 : 18, 96 :1, 139 : 16 , 140: 19 **breathe** [4] - 59:5, 68: 10, 75 : 18, 75 : 19 **brief** [3] - 77 :4, 97:25, 103 :24 **briefed** [1] - 126 : 19 **briefly** [5] - 21 :3, 82 :24, 83 : 12, 97 :21 , 107 :21 **bright** [2] - 43 :20 , 44:5 **bring** [4] - 11 : 12 , 16: 12, 52 :23, 144 : 17 **bringing** [1] - 73: 10 **brings** [2] - 41 : 12 , 73: 11 **broader** [6] - 100 :2, 100 :3, 126 :1, 153 : 11 , 155 :1, 158 :20 **brothers** [4] - 62 : 16 , 65:1, 67: 13 , 67: 19 **brought** [3] - 20 : 21 , 91 : 10, 170 : 18 **Brown** [3] - 64 :8, 64: 15, 64 :21 **brown** [3] - 69 : 17 , 142 : 10 , 142 : 11 **BROWN** [4] - 4:22, 64:9, 64: 15, 64: 18 **Bruce** [2] - 58 :7, 58: 14 **BRUCE** [3] - 4: 18, 58:8, 58: 14 **brunt** [1] - 149 :1 **BRYCE** [ 11 ] - 2:9, 40:25, 41 :9, 41 : 11 , 41 : 17, 42 :20, 87 :25, 88: 17, 89 :2, 89:22, 91 :2 **BTU** [4] - 93 : 19 , 95:9, 95: 10 , 95: 14 **Building** [2] - 1: 18 , 2:4 **building** [7] - 13 :1, 42 :1, 42 :3, 59 :22 , 115 :9, 117 :6 **buildings** [2] - 151 : 19 , 151 :23 **built** [5] - 17:7, 57 :1, 60: 18, 60 : 19, 90 : 17 **bunch** [2] - 57:8, 119 :7 **burden** [3] - 126: 25,127 :2, 139 :1 **burdens** [1] - 126 :25 **burdensome** [3] - 27:6, 27: 13 , 31 :22 **Bureau** [6] - 15 :5, 15:6, 15:7, 18 :20 , 20:1, 20:8 **burn** [1] - 123 : 14 **burners** [5] - 94 :1, 95:4, 95:7, 118:22, 119 : 25 **burning** [6] - 59 : 17 , 62 :5, 62 :8, 62 : 12 , 66:7, 66: 14 **business** [8] - 59 :6, 65: 23, 68 : 21 , 83 :2, 98:3, 98:7, 147: 19, 149 :1 **businesses** [4] - 66: 20, 146 :6, 151 : 18 , 151 : 20 **buy** [1] - 133 :6 **BY** [ 12] - 18: 14, 30: 22, 32 : 16, 82 :5, 83: 12, 87 : 24, 96 : 12 , 96: 15, 97 : 21 , 99 : 18 , 110 :5, 159 : 11 **bypass** [1] - 91 : 15 

## C

**C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D** [1] - 50 :21 **cabinet** [2] - 169:1, 169 :2 **calculate** [2] - 67 :23 , 81 :6 **calculation** [1] - 23: 11 **calculations** [2] - 28: 23, 108 :4 **Caldwell** [1] - 61 :6 **CALLAN** [4] - 6:3, 141 : 10 , 141 : 16 , 141 : 22 **cannot** [3] - 62 :25, 64:3, 67: 23 **Canyon** [3] - 15 :21 , 16: 20, 20 : 17 **capacities** [2] - 83 :3, 98:8 **capacity** [7] - 83 : 17 , 83: 18, 85 :3, 96:20, 99:2, 131 :9, 147 : 18 **capita** [1] - 143 :1 **capital** [9] - 42 : 10 , 84:8, 92 :1, 93 :9, 98: 15, 117 :5, 141 :23 , 147 : 11 , 154: 18 **Capitol** [1] - 1: 18 **captured** [1] - 66: 11 **carbon** [1] - 62 : 11 **Care** [1] - 153 :3 **care** [1] - 64 :25 **cares** [1] - 51 :23 **caretaker** [1] - 136 : 18 **Carla** [3] - 47 :22 , 48:9, 48: 13 **CARLA** [3] - 4: 10 , 48:3, 48:9 **Carlsbad** [1] - 23 :25 **carries** [1] - 66:8 **CASCIANO** [40] - 2:8, 32 : 17 , 33 :8, 33: 11 , 33 : 15, 33 : 19 , 33:25, 34 :3, 34: 12, 34: 14, 34 : 16, 34 : 19 , 35:9, 35: 13 , 35: 18, 36:6, 42 :9, 42 : 17 , 43:2, 43:4, 43 :9, 43: 19, 43 :22, 44 :3, 44:6, 93:24 , 94:8, 94:23, 95 : 15, 116 :22 , 118 :20 , 119: 17 , 119 :21 , 120:20 , 121 : 18 , 122 :21 , 123 :4, 124 : 17 , 125 : 12 , 125:21 **Casciano** [2] - 43: 15, 123 :23 **Casciano 's**  [1] - 36: 12 **case** [33] - 14:5, 14:9, 14: 10 , 14: 11 , 21 : 15, 36 :22, 47 :2, 51 :6, 74:1, 77 :3, 77:20, 77 :23, 77 :25, 79:22, 80 :6, 81 : 13, 82 : 16, 82 :22, 83 :1, 92 : 12, 97 :5, 101 :25, 103 :8, 103 : 15, 111 :5, 113 : 11 , 119:5, 127 : 15, 158:3, 161 :7, 162 :3, 162 : 19 **Case** [1] - 48 : 16 **case -** **by -** **case** [1] - 119 :5 **cases** [1] - 34 :9 **catalyst** [2] - 115 : 11 , 115 :24 **catalytic** [ 10] - 26: 16 , 26:24, 49 : 19, 55 : 13 , 72 :4, 78:20 , 118 :22 , 119 : 19 , 155:5, 160:21 **catastrophically** [1]

- 65 : 12 **catching** [2] - 44 : 10 , 44: 12 **Catholic** [1] - 69 : 13 **caused** [1] - 71 : 19 **causes** [1] - 68:4 **causing** [5] - 24:3, 65:7, 66:1, 118: 17, 154 :9 **Caverns** [1] - 23:25 **CCR** [1] - 173 :20 **celebrate** [1] - 61 :25 **Center** [5] - 3: 16, 12 :7, 24:24 , 30:25, 152 :25 **cents** [1] - 67 :24 **certain** [6] - 15:22, 16:24, 17 :6, 43: 12, 43: 13, 104 : 14 **certainly** [20] - 13 :5, 44: 15, 44 : 18, 46 : 10 , 47: 14, 77 : 14, 80 :1, 102 :25, 107:23 , 110 : 19 , 114: 18 , 131 :6, 131 : 18 , 133 :21 , 138:20 , 142 : 11 , 142 :23 , 156 : 18 , 164: 19 , 171 :7 **certify** [1] - 173 :7 **cetera** [2] - 63:22, 151 :23 **CFR** [5] - 7:6, 7:8, 7: 10 , 15: 19 , 21 :23 **chair** [1] - 20 : 19 **Chair** [5] - 14 :23 , 54:3, 138 : 12, 147 : 14 , 171 :22 **Chairman** [2] - 50:23, 76 :25 **challenge** [3] - 64 :1, 115 :23 , 157:25 **challenges** [2] - 69:2, 119 :5 **Chamber** [1] - 147 : 17 **chance** [2] - 70 :4, 149 : 17 **change** [30] - 40: 14, 40: 15, 47 : 10, 51 : 18 , 51 :22, 52 :6, 53: 14, 53: 16, 53 : 17, 62 : 15, 63: 12, 63 : 13, 64 :25, 67:9, 68:5, 75 : 13 , 112 :1, 112 :2, 112 : 12 , 112 :25, 113:5, 113:7, 113 : 10 , 113: 18 , 113 :25, 114:3, 114 : 15, 114: 16 , 126 :23 **changed** [1] - 26 :20 **changes** [9] - 17:25, 21 : 12, 29 :8, 82 : 19, 97:8, 115 :25, 124 : 10 , 125 :5, 125 :7 **Chapter** [1] - 153:5 **characteristics** [3] - 108 :21 , 111 : 14 , 112 : 17 **characterize** [1] - 116 :24 **Charles** [1] - 12 : 15 **CHARLES** [1] - 3:9 **charles .** **ce .**  **roybal @**  **bhpbilliton .** **com** [1] - 3: 12 **charts** [3] - 40 :8, 51 :6, 65:20 **cheapest** [1] - 131 : 14 **check** [1] - 76 :1 **chemicals** [1] - 93: 12 **cherish** [1] - 142 :2 **CHERYL** [1] - 173:6 **Cheryl** [3] - 10:25, 11 :1, 140 : 14 **chief** [5] - 15:6, 15:7, 18:24, 20 :1, 20:8 **child** [2] - 154 :4, 171 :5 **children** [5] - 61 :25, 62 :1, 66: 17 , 67:23, 69:3 **choice** [1] - 145:20 **choices** [1] - 80:8 **choose** [2] - 11 :7, 44:20 **choosing** [2] - 53: 10 , 59:9 **chosen** [1] - 120: 17 **Churches** [1] - 69 : 10 **circuit** [1] - 21 : 15 **circulators** [1] - 125 :2 **circumstances** [1] - 90: 12 **citation** [1] - 152 :21 **citizen** [4] - 24:22, 51 :3, 150 : 17, 150 :25 **citizens** [7] - 27 : 14 , 64:20, 68 :22, 126 : 18 , 131 :21 , 132 :1, 159: 18 **Citizens** [6] - 3: 14 , 12 :9, 24:22 , 31 :1, 99:23, 153 :6 **City** [3] - 22 :6, 22 : 11 , 137 : 14 **Civil** [1] - 2: 12 **clarif ication**  [1] - 84: 15 **clarifies** [1] - 36 :7 **clarify** [4] - 45 : 11 , 92 :22, 124 :1, 125 :23 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 5 **clarifying** [1] - 161 : 14 **Class** [27] - 16: 17, 16: 19, 16 :23, 17 :2, 21 :24, 21 :25, 23 :4, 23:5, 23:24 , 24:5, 24:8, 25: 19 , 32 : 19, 33: 17, 34 :5, 36:1, 51 : 14, 71 :1, 71 :6, 100 : 13 , 108:22 , 111 :8, 112 :9, 124 : 14 , 124 :21 , 125: 16 , 144 :9 **classification** [1] - 38:8 **classified** [1] - 80 : 19 **Clean** [5] - 7:4, 54:24, 114 :7, 153 :8, 155 :9 **clean** [20] - 7:5, 44: 13, 49 :2, 56:23, 58:4, 61 :1, 62 :2, 63 :2, 63:3, 63:4, 63 : 13 , 68: 10, 68 : 18, 69 :2, 75: 11 , 75 : 18, 88 :20 , 144 : 14 , 171 : 13 **cleaner** [1] - 75 : 19 **cleaning** [2] - 52 :3, 57:7 **clear** [4] - 40:6, 61 :20, 144 : 14 , 162 : 17 **clearly** [3] - 59 :5, 59: 13, 143 :24 **client** [1] - 171 : 10 **clients** [1] - 161 : 17 **climate** [10] - 59 :6, 59:7, 62 : 15, 64:25, 65: 15, 65 :20, 66 :1, 66: 10, 68 :4, 75: 13 **Cline** [1] - 128 :6 **close** [3] - 38 : 19 , 52 : 16, 116 :4 **closed** [1] - 66 :20 **closely** [1] - 27 :3 **closer** [1] - 102 :24 **closing** [1] - 52 : 19 **closure** [2] - 11 :7, 11 : 13 **Club** [5] - 70 :9, 71 :25, 74 :6, 153 :5 **CLURE** [4] - 6:7, 147 :4, 147 : 10 , 147: 13 **co** [1] - 20 : 19 **co -** **chair** [1] - 20 : 19 **Coal** [8] - 3:8, 3:9, 12 : 15, 13 :23, 85 :6, 85: 11 , 128 :3, 140 :23 **coal** [36] - 44 : 11 , 44: 13, 44 : 16, 44 :24 , 57:6, 57: 16 , 57: 18, 57:23, 57 :24, 60 :21 ,62 :5, 62 :7, 62 :8,

62 : 12, 62 : 14, 62 :20 , 63:7, 63:9, 66 :7, 66: 11 , 66 : 12, 66 :21 , 66: 23, 72 :7, 72 : 13, 75:5, 75: 12 , 84: 13, 85:7, 85: 16 , 122 :3, 130 : 22 , 131 : 14 , 135 : 22 , 137:4, 137: 10 **coal -** **fired** [7] - 44 : 16 , 44: 24, 62 : 14, 62 :20 , 66: 12, 66 : 21 , 66 :23 **Coalition** [1] - 71 :7 **Coast** [2] - 65:22 **code** [2] - 118 :6, 118 : 14 **Code** [1] - 29: 10 **collect** [1] - 86 :7 **college** [4] - 13:1, 60: 17, 140 : 24 , 171 :25 **Colorado** [5] - 21 :24, 21 : 25, 37 : 17, 120 :2, 158 : 23 **column** [1] - 76 :1 **combination** [2] - 49:7, 115 : 14 **combined** [2] - 49: 16, 112 : 22 **combustion** [2] - 86: 11 , 91 : 14 **combustors** [1] - 95:6 **comfortable** [1] - 136 : 11 **coming** [5] - 117 :25, 136 : 13 , 144: 24 , 146 :5, 162 : 23 **commenced** [1] - 91 :8 **comment** [55] - 10: 21 , 10 : 23, 11 : 10 , 11 : 11 , 12 : 20, 13 :5, 13: 10, 14 :1, 14:4, 14:7, 14:8, 14 : 15, 42 :7, 46: 21 , 47:2, 47:5, 47: 11 , 47: 15, 47: 16, 70 :5, 76:4, 76:6, 92 : 10 , 119 : 15, 126 :8, 128 : 13 , 128 : 16 , 129: 10 , 129 : 21 , 139: 19 , 139 : 22 , 140:1, 141 :2, 141 :7, 141 : 12 , 152 : 23 , 160:4, 160:9, 161 : 19 , 162 : 18 , 162 : 25, 163:2, 163:3, 163 :9, 163 : 13 , 163 : 21 , 163: 24 , 164 : 10 , 164: 15, 165 :2, 168 : 10 , 168 : 19 , 169: 15, 172 :3 **commentary** [1] - 162 : 12 **commenters** [2] - 76:20, 77 :24 **commenting** [2] - 70: 15, 70 : 17 **comments** [43] - 7:23 , 7:25, 8:4, 8:6, 8:9, 8: 10, 17 :24 , 23 :1, 24: 16, 24 : 19, 24 :22 , 24:25, 25 :2, 25:4, 25:5, 25:8, 25 :9, 26 :1, 26:9, 26: 11 , 47:20, 47:23, 64 : 19, 80 :2, 89:22, 129 :7, 130 : 16 , 132 :5, 141 : 14 , 157 : 16 , 158: 12 , 158 :24 , 159:1, 159:2, 160 :25, 162 : 15, 165 : 17 , 166:1, 166:3, 166 : 15, 167:23 , 168 :6 **Comments** [1] - 8: 18 **Commerce** [3] - 147 : 16 , 147: 17 , 147 :23 **commercial** [1] - 90:24 **Commission** [4] - 15:21 , 20 : 17, 29 :9, 173 :22 **commission** [1] - 97:2 **Commission 's**  [1] - 16:20 **committed** [2] - 68 :8, 90:21 **committee** [2] - 128 :20 , 147: 14 **Committee** [1] - 130 : 15 **common** [3] - 51 : 11 , 67:8, 135 :4 **communicate** [1] - 136 :7 **communities** [6] - 63:5, 64:24 , 66:5, 66: 16, 67 : 15, 68 :5 **community** [4] - 62 :3, 73:8, 75 :2, 130 :24 **companies** [1] - 48:21 **CO MPANY**  [2] - 8:22, 9:3 **company** [3] - 55:7, 90:21 , 136 : 11 **Company** [19] - 3:2, 3:2, 3:8, 8:25, 9:6, 9: 10 , 12 :2, 12 : 15, 13:23, 27 :3, 76:22, 77:2, 78: 18 , 82 : 15, 85:6, 85: 11 , 128 :3, 135 : 14 , 140:23 **comparable** [2] - 111 :25, 112 :2 **compare** [1] - 111 : 19 **compared** [6] - 111 :6, 113 :9, 116 :7, 116 : 16 , 117: 11 , 121 :2 **comparing** [1] - 33:25 **comparison** [3] - 110 :8, 112 :24 , 114: 13 **compelling** [1] - 55:24 **competent** [2] - 53: 12, 168 :22 **compilation** [1] - 29: 10 **complements** [1] - 152 : 19 **complete** [1] - 56:6 **completed** [4] - 76: 18, 91 :6, 92 : 12, 98:3 **complex** [2] - 68: 18, 121 : 14 **compliance** [2] - 31 : 19, 105 : 10 **comply** [1] - 15: 17 **complying** [1] - 15:23 **component** [1] - 153 : 17 **comprehended** [1] - 125 : 12 **comprehensive** [2] - 124 :3 **comprise** [1] - 135:3 **compromise** [1] - 63:24 **compromising** [1] - 64:2 **computer** [1] - 59:20 **computers** [1] - 171 :8 **concentrated** [1] - 104 : 18 **concentration** [1] - 98:4 **conception** [1] - 68: 17 **concern** [4] - 65 :3, 133 : 10 , 138:20 , 139 :5 **concerned** [4] - 64:20, 64 :25, 65 :23 , 170 :4 **concerns** [9] - 55 :20 , 65:6, 109 :9, 130 : 17 , 138 :23 , 145:23 , 146 : 18 , 157: 10 , 165 : 13 **conclude** [2] - 132 :6, 134 :6 **concluded** [1] - 94 :4 **concludes** [4] - 86:22, 99 :4, 107 : 18 , 127 : 14 **conclusion** [3] - 29:4, 68: 15, 74:5 **concrete** [2] - 154 :24 , 155: 16 **condition** [2] - 124 :23 , 125: 11 **conditions** [4] - 16:6, 16: 13, 23 : 12, 75 :9 **conduct** [2] - 10 :3, 42 :6 **conducted** [5] - 10:9, 30:6, 86: 19 , 110 : 19 , 135 :7 **conducting** [1] - 108 :3 **Conference** [1] - 69: 10 **conflict** [1] - 62 :8 **conflicts** [1] - 158:7 **confusing** [3] - 12 :22, 39 : 14, 161 :1 **conjunction** [2] - 101 :24 , 103:7 **consent** [5] - 37 : 15, 41 : 19, 91 :7, 91 : 13, 110 :23 **consequences** [1] - 139 :7 **conservation** [2] - 165 :20 , 170:3 **conservatism** [1] - 40:20 **conservative** [3] - 28: 12, 28 : 16, 40 : 17 **consider** [20] - 43: 10, 55 :4, 71 :1, 77:8, 78:24 , 80:5, 102 :8, 105 :8, 131 :7, 143 : 19 , 149:21 , 152 :2, 156 :20 , 157:1, 157 : 19 , 160:1, 160:6, 160 :7, 164 :24 **consideration** [ 11 ] - 27: 12, 45 :9, 50:3, 50:4, 77:5, 80 : 12 , 81 :2, 152 :9, 156 : 18 , 168 : 11 , 168: 14 **considerations** [3] - 59:8, 111 : 16, 139 :8 **considered** [ 11 ] - 38:2, 51 :24 , 60:1, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 6

79:1, 79: 13 , 79: 14, 106 :1, 142 : 19 , 150 : 15, 165:6, 168:3 **considering** [3] - 55:21 , 67 :5, 131 :24 **consistent** [2] - 55: 14, 145 :25 **consolidated** [1] - 18:2 **constituency** [1] - 134 :22 **constitute** [1] - 130 :23 **constitutes** [1] - 168 :21 **construction** [3] - 83:4, 91 :8, 94 :4 **consumers** [1] - 146 : 14 **contact** [1] - 11 :1 **contain** [1] - 42 :9 **contained** [2] - 51 :6, 160 :24 **contains** [1] - 23 : 15 **contents** [1] - 23 : 16 **contested** [1] - 120 : 18 **contesting** [1] - 122 :1 **context** [1] - 15 : 12 **continue** [7] - 44 :21 , 58:25, 67 : 17, 91 :1, 120 :25, 127:4, 140:5 **continued** [3] - 79 :5, 106 : 17 , 106: 19 **Continued** [7] - 3:1, 5:1, 6:1, 8:1, 8:3, 9:1, 9:3 **continues** [1] - 24: 11 **continuing** [3] - 25: 15, 88 :24, 148 :6 **continuous** [1] - 44: 17 **contract** [2] - 40:1, 85:21 **contracted** [2] - 71 : 16, 159 :1 **contractor** [3] - 40 :1, 79:3, 124 :9 **contractors** [1] - 59: 18 **contracts** [1] - 137 :9 **contrary** [1] - 169:4 **contrast** [1] - 111 : 19 **contribute** [1] - 114 : 10 **contributed** [4] - 62 :23, 86 :3, 90: 12, 104 :22 **contributing** [1] -131 :2 **contributor** [2] - 75: 13, 86 : 10 **contributors** [1] - 89: 16 **control** [21 ] - 26 : 12, 27: 12, 42 : 24, 42 :25, 43: 14, 44 : 16, 79 : 10 , 86: 16, 86 : 22, 104 :7, 104 :8, 104 :9, 105 : 13 , 105 : 24 , 106:3, 109:8, 117 :1, 125 : 17 , 146:8, 154 : 19 , 156: 19 **Control** [4] - 28 :6, 28: 10, 28 : 13, 43 :6 **controlled** [1] - 133 : 25 **controls** [ 14] - 35 : 15, 35: 16, 35 : 17, 35 : 19 , 35: 23, 39 :4, 39:7, 55:1, 74:9, 110:23, 111 :4, 151 :8, 152 :4 **convenience** [1] - 18:1 **convergence** [1] - 116 :1 **conversations** [1] - 157 : 21 **conversion** [2] - 118 : 23 **converted** [2] - 94 : 17 **convincing** [1] - 161 :7 **cooking** [1] - 170: 17 **copier** [2] - 12 :24, 13:2 **copies** [3] - 13 : 12 , 54: 20, 152 : 20 **copy** [2] - 11 :1, 42 : 20 **core** [2] - 23 :9, 23 : 17 **Corners** [26] - 25: 13 , 37:5, 37:6, 37 :7, 59: 11 , 62 :6, 63: 19, 63: 23, 70 : 12, 72 :9, 77: 23, 78 :6, 84: 15, 85: 13, 85 : 25, 120 :22 , 121 :7, 133 : 15, 135 : 22 , 137: 13 , 142 :9, 143 : 17 , 144 : 11 , 146: 22 , 153 : 12 **corporate** [2] - 144 :1, 145 :4 **Corporation** [1] - 9:8 **corporations** [1] - 136 : 12 **correct** [9] - 17 :22 , 29:6, 31 : 21 , 43: 19, 47:8, 100 :2, 118 :20 , 140 :9, 163 :7 **corrected** [1] - 152 :22 **corrections** [6] - 97:8, 102 :2, 102 :5, 102 : 19 , 103: 11 , 103 : 13 **correctly** [3] - 113 :20 , 163: 19 , 163 :21 **corresponds** [1] - 15: 13 **cost** [87] - 26 : 12 , 27:4, 27:22 , 27:25, 28:1, 28: 17 , 28: 18, 28: 19, 28 :23, 31 :3, 31 : 10, 31 : 19, 31 :22 , 38: 15, 38 : 17, 38 :25, 40:2, 41 :25, 42 :3, 42 :5, 42 :7, 42 :9, 42 : 10, 42 :24, 43 :5, 43: 10, 43 : 17, 45 :23 , 45:24, 49 : 10, 49 : 17 , 56:4, 59: 15, 60:23, 67: 12, 72 :7, 72 : 12, 73:4, 73:5, 74 :8, 78 :9, 78:25, 79 : 11 , 79 : 14 , 80: 11 , 83 :20, 86 :4, 87:3, 88:8, 89 :5, 89: 12, 97 :1, 98: 13, 102 : 15, 105:1, 105:9, 107 : 16 , 110:9, 114 : 14 , 114: 15, 116 :4, 116 :7, 116 : 10 , 116 : 12 , 116: 18 , 117 :4, 117 :5, 119 :23 , 120 : 15, 121 : 12 , 121 : 13 , 126: 13 , 131 :25, 149:8, 149:9, 151 : 11 , 151 : 17 , 151 :21 , 151 :24 , 152 :7, 155 :25, 156:1, 156 :7, 157 :1, 157 : 11 **Cost** [4] - 28 :6, 28: 10, 28 : 14, 43 :6 **cost -** **effective** [3] - 60:23, 74 :8, 89: 12 **costing** [3] - 28 :3, 53:3, 53:8 **costly** [1] - 67 : 11 **costs** [63] - 27 : 12 , 27: 13, 28 :5, 28:8, 28:9, 28: 11 , 28: 14, 28: 16, 38 :25, 42 :1, 42 : 11 , 43 :1, 45:25, 46:8, 49: 12 , 50:1, 55:8, 58:25, 59:9, 59: 14, 66 :8, 66: 10, 68:23, 72 : 12, 72 :21 , 73:3, 79: 18 , 85:20, 92 :7, 98: 15, 100 :3, 100 :7, 107 : 13 , 114 : 13 , 114:21 , 114 :24 , 115:2, 117:8, 117 : 19 , 118: 17 , 119 :1, 138 : 19 , 138 :24 , 142 :20 , 146 :7, 146 :9, 146 : 13 , 146 : 14 , 148:25, 149 : 13 , 149: 15, 153 :25, 154:2, 154:4, 154 :6, 154 :9, 154 : 16 , 154 : 18 , 156:4, 157:6, 171 :2, 171 :6 **Council** [3] - 3: 14, 12 :8, 153 :4 **Counsel** [1] - 2: 17 **counsel** [15] - 10 :8, 10: 14, 11 : 14, 11 : 19 , 26:4, 29:22 , 162 :22 , 164 : 14 , 165: 13 , 165 : 19 , 166: 15, 167 :24 , 173: 13 , 173 : 16 **count** [3] - 92 : 17 , 104 : 12 **country** [9] - 59: 12, 59:23, 60 : 10, 60 : 11 , 89:8, 89: 11 , 122 :8, 143 :2, 143 :21 **CO UNTY**  [1] - 173 :3 **County** [ 11 ] - 85 : 18 , 130 : 18 , 132 :20 , 133 : 13 , 133:24 , 134 :23 , 134:24 , 137 :6, 137 : 15, 139:4 **county** [1] - 134 :5 **couple** [9] - 31 :2, 36:9, 45:2, 47 :21 , 77:6, 106 :25, 110 : 13 , 127 :5, 128 : 19 **course** [9] - 39:4, 55: 16, 77 : 19, 80 : 10 , 107 :2, 108 : 14 , 162 :1, 162 :7, 166 :1 **court** [1] - 21 : 19 **Court** [1] - 10:25 **cover** [1] - 57 :8 **cover -** **up** [1] - 57:8 **coverage** [1] - 16 :23 **cozy** [1] - 157 : 14 **Craig** [5] - 120:2, 120 :3, 120 :5, 121 :20 , 121 :22 **CRAWFORD** [5] - 4: 12 , 50: 14 , 50:20, 50:23, 53 :24 **Crawford** [7] - 12 :21 , 12 :23, 13 :3, 50: 13, 50:20, 51 :2, 57: 14 **create** [1] - 75:8 **created** [2] - 59:3, 62 :22 **creating** [2] - 62 : 14, 143 :20 **creation** [1] - 64 :24 **creator** [1] - 67 :21 **credit** [1] - 23 :7 **criteria** [4] - 43 : 11 , 86:24, 88 :5, 168 :24 **critical** [2] - 81 :1, 83: 16 **critiques** [1] - 161 :8 **CROSS** [2] - 30:21 , 99: 17 **cross** [13] - 4:6, 10: 17, 15 : 10, 23 : 18 , 30:5, 156 :24, 162 :8, 164 : 17 , 166:23 , 166 :25, 167: 12 , 167 : 18 , 169:7 **Cross** [1] - 5: 11 **cross -** **examination** [7] - 10 : 17 , 15 : 10 , 30:5, 156 :24, 164 : 17 , 166 :23 , 167: 12 **cross -** **examine** [2] - 162 :8, 166 :25 **cross -** **examined** [2]

- 167 : 18 , 169:7 **cross -** **references** [1]

- 23 : 18 **crossed** [1] - 60 : 17 **Cruces** [1] - 153 : 14 **culture** [1] - 153 : 16 **cumulative** [1] - 114 :5 **curbing** [1] - 75:8 **curious** [2] - 36: 16, 39: 10 **current** [ 12] - 16 : 13 , 63: 11 , 66 :6, 66: 12, 73:25, 75 :6, 75:21 , 88:22, 96 :23, 120 : 19 , 120 :24 , 146:1 **curve** [3] - 116:8, 116 :9, 116 : 11 **customer** [2] - 151 : 12 , 151 : 16 **customer 's**  [1] - 98: 18 **customers** [9] - 27 :7, 83:21 , 83 :22, 83 :23 , 87:4, 98:24 , 142 :20 , 142 :23 , 144:2 **cutoff** [1] - 43 : 17 **cutoffs** [1] - 45:24 **cuts** [1] - 51 : 10



## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 7 **D**

**da -** **da -** **da -** **da** [1] - 36: 15 **daily** [1] - 68 : 10 **damaging** [1] - 53: 10 **dangerous** [3] - 62 :7, 66: 13 , 66: 15 **data** [15] - 28 :7, 28:8, 28: 13, 34 : 18, 40 : 14 , 43:8, 44:2, 72 : 17 , 72 : 18, 108 :20 , 111 : 14 , 111 : 15, 160 :5 **date** [1] - 16: 13 **dated** [1] - 160 :20 **daughter** [1] - 60: 16 **daughters** [1] - 60: 14 **days** [ 10] - 23:25, 24:4, 24:6, 35 : 11 , 40: 17, 77 :7, 127 :5, 154 :24 , 170: 17 , 170 : 18 **dazzling** [1] - 51 :9 **DC** [2] - 21 : 15, 146 :3 **de** [1] - 3:23 **deadline** [4] - 162 :5, 162 :24 , 162 :25, 165 :21 **death** [2] - 68: 17, 75: 15 **deaths** [1] - 154 :22 **debate** [3] - 37 :25, 155 :2, 161 :6 **DEBORAH** [1] - 2:7 **decades** [1] - 70: 17 **deceased** [1] - 150 : 15 **December** [2] - 16 :8, 21 :7 **decided** [4] - 21 : 21 , 129 :9, 133 : 17 , 167: 10 **decides** [3] - 155 : 11 , 155 : 13 , 158:1 **decision** [ 12] - 11 :7, 21 :20, 64 :4, 84:9, 137 :23 , 146:4, 157:2, 157 :25, 160: 11 , 163 : 11 , 167:9, 170:5 **decision -** **making** [3]

- 137 :23 , 146:4, 160 : 11 **decisions** [1] - 60 :7 **deciview** [ 17] - 34: 10, 51 : 17, 111 :23 , 111 :24 , 112 :1, 112 :8, 112 : 12 , 112 :25, 113 :5, 113 : 15, 113 :24 , 114:3, 114:4,115 : 18 , 116:6 **deciviews** [4] - 32 : 23, 51 : 19, 51 :21 , 51 : 22 **decrease** [2] - 68:24 , 72 :2 **decree** [5] - 37 : 16, 41 : 19, 91 :7, 91 : 13, 110 : 23 **deems** [1] - 166:2 **deeper** [3] - 65:8, 142 : 12 **deeply** [1] - 141 :25 **Defense** [3] - 3: 14 , 12 :8, 153 :3 **define** [1] - 28 : 17 **defined** [1] - 165 : 15 **definite** [1] - 53 : 15 **definitely** [6] - 70 :24 , 70: 25, 71 : 18, 71 :21 , 72 : 23, 169 : 20 **definition** [1] - 168 : 18 **degradation** [1] - 35:3 **degrade** [1] - 24 :4 **degraded** [2] - 63 :6, 63:9 **degree** [4] - 19:6, 83:5, 105 : 17, 168 :23 **del** [2] - 3: 16 , 34 :24 **delay** [1] - 68 :3 **deliberate** [1] - 13 : 12 **demonstrate** [1] - 22 : 16 **demonstrations** [1] - 16: 24 **denoted** [1] - 124 :22 **deny** [1] - 142 :24 **department** [1] - 70: 22 **Department** [46] - 2:3, 2: 16, 2: 18, 11 : 19, 13: 16, 15 :1, 17:22, 18: 20, 19 : 22, 19 :24 , 20:9, 24: 15, 25:24, 26: 18, 26 : 20, 26 :24 , 27:2, 27: 15, 28:21 , 28: 23, 29 :5, 30:8, 30: 13, 31 :6, 32 :7, 32 : 12, 32 : 14, 38 :5, 41 :6, 46: 17 , 49:1, 55: 15, 55 : 21 , 56 :4, 56:7, 67:3, 73 :2, 137 : 20 , 144: 21 , 145 : 22 , 156: 24 , 157 :9, 157 : 15, 158:6, 165 : 12 , 167: 24 **DEPARTMENT** [2] - 7:3, 8:3 **Department 's**  [12] - 14:9, 15: 13 , 26: 13, 27: 18, 55 : 12, 55 : 19 , 56:2, 76: 19 , 142 : 17 , 155 :3, 156 : 12 , 159:4 **dependent** [1] - 133 :7 **deployed** [1] - 86 :6 **depreciable** [1] - 98: 15 **depreciation** [2] - 88:25, 91 :24 **derives** [1] - 131 :8 **descent** [1] - 136:23 **describe** [2] - 65 : 18 , 129 :4 **described** [1] - 26 :6 **describes** [1] - 15:25 **description** [1] - 103 :24 **Desert** [1] - 60 : 18 **deserve** [2] - 56 :6, 62 :2 **deserves** [2] - 165:1, 165 :8 **design** [1] - 111 :2 **designated** [1] - 71 :8 **designed** [3] - 84:22, 95:6, 146 : 17 **designs** [1] - 90: 15 **desk** [1] - 11 : 12 **despite** [2] - 21 :9, 69:2 **detail** [9] - 16 :1, 22 :20, 22 :21 , 23 :23 , 35:22, 53 :20, 79 : 15, 127 :6, 160 :21 **details** [1] - 114:20 **determination** [32] - 17:5, 17: 12 , 17: 16, 26: 14, 26 : 16, 26 :20 , 27: 11 , 27 : 18, 27 :23 , 38:9, 44:1, 44 : 19 , 45:8, 45: 10 , 79:23, 80: 12, 80 : 17, 81 :3, 116 :25, 120: 13 , 120 :23 , 122 :4, 122 :6, 124 : 14 , 137:21 , 155 : 11 , 161 :21 , 166 :5 **determination 's**  [1] - 122 :9 **determinations** [5] - 26:9, 46: 12 , 79:9, 119 :7, 137 : 17 **determine** [2] - 38:25, 106 :5 **determined** [9] - 27:4, 27: 15, 38:5, 40:5, 89: 14 , 118 :21 , 119 :22 , 120: 16 , 155 : 17 **determining** [2] - 108 :20 , 156: 19 **develop** [8] - 57 :5, 57:9, 57:25, 68:3, 75: 11 , 89 :9, 110 :21 , 151 :7 **developed** [8] - 15: 17, 16 :2, 20:20, 84: 10, 93 :9, 105 :21 , 111 :2, 111 : 12 **developing** [3] - 19: 10, 60 :4, 108 : 17 **development** [4] - 19:8, 20: 12 , 20: 14, 80:8 **developments** [2] - 60:5, 80:21 **develops** [1] - 97:2 **devil 's**  [1] - 159:21 **devoted** [1] - 67 :8 **Diane** [5] - 9:8, 79 :7, 101 :21 , 108: 12 , 121 :5 **DIANE** [3] - 5: 13 , 81 :21 , 101 : 14 **Diary** [1] - 65:9 **dichotomy** [1] - 166 : 17 **dictates** [2] - 146:2, 146 :3 **died** [1] - 57:22 **difference** [6] - 51 :23, 80 : 15, 100 :8, 115 :1, 126 : 15, 155:22 **differences** [5] - 26: 12, 27 :22, 27 :24 , 79: 16, 79 : 17 **different** [12] - 18 :4, 18:5, 28:2, 39 :7, 83: 18, 114 : 14 , 119:1, 121 : 13 , 122 :3, 126 : 14 , 146: 17 **differentiate** [2] - 35: 18, 167 :6 **difficult** [3] - 88 :3, 88:7, 162 :9 **diligently** [1] - 22 :7 **dimensional** [1] - 111 : 14 **Dine** [1] - 153 :3 **dioxide** [3] - 17 : 10 , 22 :5, 22 : 18 **dip** [1] - 148: 10 **DIRECT** [21 ] - 18 : 13 , 48:6, 50: 17 , 54:9, 56: 15, 58 : 11 , 61 : 11 , 64: 12, 69 :22, 74 :21 , 82 :4, 96: 11 , 130 :6, 132 : 15, 134: 16 , 138 :6, 141 : 19 , 145 : 11 , 147:7, 150:8, 152 : 15 **direct** [21 ] - 4: 13 , 4: 15, 4: 17 , 4: 19 , 4:21 , 4:23 , 4:25, 5:4, 5:7, 5: 10 , 5: 19 , 5:21 , 5:23, 6:4, 6:6, 6: 10 , 6: 12 , 28:2, 29: 14 , 62 :8, 127 : 15 **Direct** [5] - 4:5, 4: 11 , 5: 14 , 5: 17 , 6:8 **direction** [2] - 80 :3, 160 :23 **directions** [1] - 60 :25 **directly** [3] - 11 :1, 86:8, 109 :8 **director** [6] - 48 : 14 , 64:22, 69 :9, 69: 12, 78: 17, 96 :21 **directors** [1] - 69 : 11 **dirtiest** [1] - 62 :7 **dirty** [4] - 57 :7, 57: 17, 62 :7, 62 : 13 **disagree** [1] - 160: 17 **disapproval** [1] - 21 : 10 **disapprove** [1] - 36: 14 **disapproved** [1] - 21 : 11 **disbursed** [1] - 90 : 19 **discovered** [1] - 17:23 **discrepancies** [1] - 28:1 **discrepancy** [1] - 73:3 **discretion** [4] - 27: 11 , 43 :24, 43 :25, 164 : 17 **discuss** [3] - 23:22, 59:6, 114 : 16 **discussed** [3] - 13: 16, 16 : 15, 17 : 16 **discussing** [1] - 59 :7 **discussion** [3] - 77: 14, 86 : 13, 161 : 15 **disease** [1] - 52 :21 **diseases** [2] - 75 : 15, 143 : 17 **dismayed** [1] - 67 :4 **dismissing** [1] - 157 :4 **displace** [1] - 63 :9 **display** [1] - 51 :9 **disproportionately** [1] - 143: 14 **dispute** [1] - 163 :23 **disregard** [1] - 56:4 **disruption** [2] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 8

62 : 19, 66 : 10 **distinction** [3] - 21 :4, 163 : 15, 168:3 **District** [5] - 130: 10, 132 : 19 , 134:23 , 138 : 10 , 138: 15 **Division** [2] - 2: 12 , 29:9 **doctors '**  [2] - 151 : 18 , 151 :22 **document** [2] - 19: 11 , 108 : 17 **documents** [1] - 37:25 **dollar** [5] - 43: 12 , 43: 14, 88 : 11 , 121 :6, 132 :2 **dollars** [8] - 52 :5, 52 : 11 , 53 :9, 67:24, 73:21 , 117 : 10 , 131 :1, 137 :1 **done** [30] - 25 : 12 , 31 :24, 38 : 19, 39 :1, 39:23, 39 :24, 40 :3, 44: 15, 47 :6, 55: 10, 60: 19, 88 :6, 100 :3, 106 :4, 112 : 11 , 117 : 10 , 122 :25, 124 :2, 124 :6, 131 :20 , 132 :22 , 140:9, 140 : 10 , 144:21 , 146 :4, 157 : 13 , 161 :3, 170 :8 **Donna** [2] - 50: 13, 69:9 **doubt** [1] - 59 :25 **down** [7] - 115 : 10 , 120 :25, 121 : 11 , 130 : 14 , 133: 18 , 146 :5, 151 : 14 **downstream** [1] - 118 :9 **downturn** [2] - 139 :3, 146 :7 **dozen** [1] - 47 :21 **Dr** [17] - 159 :2, 160 :24 , 161 :6, 161 : 12 , 162 :8, 163 : 17 , 164:6, 164 : 12 , 164:20 , 165 : 14 , 166:4, 166 :24 , 167: 12 , 168 :4, 168 :24 , 169:6, 169 : 17 **draft** [ 12] - 116:1, 117 :21 , 117:24 , 118 :3, 118 :4, 118 :7, 120 :2, 120 :7, 121 : 16 , 137 : 18 , 138: 16 , 145 :21**dramatic** [1] - 65 : 11 **dramatically** [1] - 146 : 10 **draw** [2] - 116:8, 125 :1 **Drawer** [1] - 2: 13 **drawing** [1] - 90 : 16 **drink** [1] - 68 : 11 **Drive** [2] - 2:4, 2: 19 **driv er**  [2] - 130 :25, 144 :6 **driv ers**  [2] - 66 :9, 122 : 17 **driv es**  [4] - 64:3, 119 :1, 170 : 15 **drop** [1] - 95 : 13 **dropped** [2] - 21 :21 , 90:4 **droughts** [1] - 62 : 17 **drove** [1] - 60 : 16 **dry** [1] - 65 : 12 **duct** [2] - 115: 11 , 115 : 12 **ductwork** [2] - 115 : 25, 117: 16 **due** [3] - 22 :4, 23 :7, 24: 11 **duly** [24] - 18 : 11 , 48:4, 50: 15, 54:7, 56: 13, 58 :9, 61 :9, 64: 10, 69 : 20, 74 : 19 , 81 : 22, 82 :2, 96:9, 101 : 15, 130:4, 132 : 13 , 134: 14 , 138 :4, 141 : 17 , 145:9, 147 :5, 150 :6, 152 : 13 , 173 :9 **during** [7] - 13 :6, 13: 10, 70 : 14, 71 :22 , 73:1, 94:5 

## E

**E- mail**  [2] - 12 :22, 13:5 **early** [3] - 14 :6, 91 :9, 94:4 **earnings** [1] - 91 :24 **easiest** [2] - 115 :8, 159 :6 **east** [1] - 142 :1 **East** [1] - 65 :22 **Eastern** [2] - 35 :25, 132 : 19 **easy** [1] - 72 : 13 **echo** [1] - 132 :21 **economic** [27] - 31 : 24, 45 : 12, 52 : 13 , 55:6, 78:5, 85 : 13 , 85:25, 100 :3, 100 :7, 126 : 17 , 126:25, 130 :24 , 131 : 12 , 132 :3, 136 :9, 138 :22 , 139 :3, 139 :8, 144 :6, 146 :7, 148 : 14 , 149 : 15, 151 :9, 154 :24 , 165: 16 , 170 :24 , 171 : 15 **economically** [4] - 27: 16, 27 : 17, 63 :6, 67: 16 **economics** [1] - 78:24 **Economy** [1] - 153:4 **economy** [8] - 69:3, 131 :2, 137 : 12 , 148:7, 149 :20 , 153: 16 , 170 : 15, 170:22 **ecosystems** [1] - 68:5 **educational** [3] - 19:3, 82 :25, 103 :25 **effect** [4] - 45: 14 , 122 :22 , 134:4, 149:21 **effective** [ 14] - 60:23, 68:3, 73:5, 74 :8, 79: 14, 89 : 12, 110 : 15, 116 : 10 , 116: 18 , 117 :4, 119 :23 , 120 : 15, 156:1, 156:7 **effectiveness** [11 ] - 26: 12, 42 :24, 49 : 10 , 55:9, 78:25, 79: 12, 110 :9, 116 : 12 , 126 : 13 , 151 :8, 157: 12 **effects** [5] - 52 : 13, 62 : 13, 70 : 16, 77 : 15, 143 : 15 **efficiency** [3] - 26: 12, 97 :3, 171 : 12 **efficient** [1] - 156:4 **effort** [2] - 12 :22, 131 : 16 **EIB** [ 11 ] - 1:3, 10 :3, 21 :8, 48: 17 , 50:23, 52 : 15, 55 :4, 56:1, 56:3, 139 :22, 140 :1 **eight** [5] - 13: 12, 17:2, 23:5, 53 :25, 122 :3 **either** [17] - 37 : 19, 45:5, 60:1, 89 :6, 98: 11 , 99 :1, 109 :6, 115 :21 , 116: 15, 116 :25, 125:4, 133 :25, 151 :25, 152 :1, 159 :5, 162 : 15, 165 :23 **elderly** [1] - 66 : 17 **elders** [1] - 57:22 **electric** [3] - 48 :21 , 53: 17, 78 :4 **electrical** [3] - 98:1, 133 :5, 133 :8 **electricity** [ 12] - 66 :7, 131 :9, 131 : 15, 131 :25, 133:20 , 146 :9, 146 : 14 , 154:4, 170 : 15, 171 :7, 171 :8, 171 : 14 **electricity****** **producing** [1] - 171 : 14 **electronically** [1] - 69:6 **electrostatic** [1] - 94: 19 **element** [4] - 17 :5, 23: 19, 64 :3, 81 :1 **elements** [2] - 50:5, 83: 13 **elevates** [1] - 157 : 10 **eligible** [1] - 27:8 **eliminate** [1] - 105 :25 **eliminated** [1] - 111 :1 **elimination** [1] - 91 : 15 **Elizabeth** [3] - 141 :4, 150 :1, 150 : 10 **ELIZA BETH**  [3] - 2: 10 , 6:9, 150 :5 **Ellen** [1] - 61 :6 **emanating** [1] - 142 :9 **embarked** [1] - 86 :2 **embarks** [2] - 89 :8, 89: 11 **embodied** [2] - 78:21 , 79 : 17 **embraces** [1] - 89 : 11 **Embudo** [1] - 57: 11 **emerge** [1] - 89:7 **emergency** [1] - 67: 17 **emerging** [1] - 60 :2 **emission** [9] - 22 :5, 46:2, 66:23 , 87:2, 93:5, 111 :21 , 125 :9, 132 :23 **emissions** [ 19] - 24:2, 25: 14 , 36:4, 39: 15, 44 :23, 49 : 14 , 55: 18, 62 : 11 , 65 :6, 71 :20, 72 :2, 75: 12, 78: 10, 86 : 12, 94 :1, 142 :5, 151 :8, 152 :4, 155 : 19 **emitted** [2] - 72 : 15, 154 :9 **emphasize** [1] - 157 :4 **emphasized** [1] - 142 : 19 **emphysema** [1] - 75: 14 **employ** [1] - 136 :24 **employed** [ 12] - 18: 18, 18 : 19, 19 :20 , 19:21 , 82 : 11 , 82 : 12 , 96:20, 98 :6, 103 :2, 103 :4, 173 : 13 , 173: 16 **employee** [1] - 173 : 15 **employees** [2] - 85: 13, 150 : 14 **employers** [7] - 147 :21 , 147:23 , 148 :7, 148 :24 , 149:2, 149 :9, 149 :20 **employment** [2] - 101 :20 , 136:3 **employs** [3] - 85 :5, 85:7, 136 :22 **enacted** [1] - 35 : 16 **enchantment** [1] - 144 : 13 **encourage** [1] - 13 :4 **encouraging** [1] - 13:3 **end** [9] - 11 :7, 38 :24 , 68: 13, 76 :4, 102 :6, 107 : 15, 115:25, 116 :3, 124 : 13 **endangerment** [1] - 62 :21 **endeavors** [1] - 136 :9 **ended** [2] - 109 :2, 111 : 11 **endorse** [1] - 144 :23 **ends** [1] - 171 :5 **energy** [28] - 57 :6, 57: 10, 57 : 12, 58 :2, 58:4, 60:21 , 63:2, 63:3, 63:4, 63 : 13 , 67: 16, 68 : 18, 69 :3, 75: 11 , 83 :21 , 88 :20 , 89:23, 97 :3, 105 : 11 , 143 :20 , 145: 19 , 146 :7, 146 :9, 146 : 13 , 151 :21 , 171 : 11 , 171 : 12 , 171 : 13 **Energy** [2] - 3:9, 153 :4 **enforced** [1] - 21 :9 **engineer** [3] - 59 :21 , 104 :3, 143 :9 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 9

**engineering** [ 10] - 42 :6, 83:4, 83 :5, 98 :2, 98:7, 104 :5, 105 :1, 108 : 11 , 110:20 , 165 : 16 **engineers** [1] - 59 : 18 **enhance** [1] - 131 : 25 **enhanced** [3] - 31 : 11 , 31 : 15, 31 :25 **enhancements** [1] - 93:20 **enormous** [2] - 60: 18, 67 : 12 **ensuring** [1] - 68 :9 **enter** [1] - 130 : 16 **entered** [2] - 10: 12, 169 :5 **entire** [1] - 115:9 **entirely** [1] - 162 : 11 **entirety** [1] - 104 :7 **entities** [1] - 159:5 **entitled** [1] - 163 :2 **entity** [1] - 151 :1 **Environment** [20] - 2:3, 2: 16, 2: 18, 11 : 19, 15:1, 18:20 , 19:22, 20:9, 26: 13 , 26:24, 27: 14, 27 : 18, 28 :21 , 28:22, 73 :2, 142 : 17 , 144 :21 , 156: 12 , 157 : 15, 158:5 **ENVIRONMENT** [2] - 7:3, 8:3 **environment** [ 12] - 50:2, 62 : 15, 75: 10, 126 : 16 , 131 : 17 , 131 :20 , 137: 17 , 148 :6, 149 : 19 , 157:2, 159 : 15, 170: 19 **ENVIRONMENTAL** [1] - 1:1 **environmental** [20] - 49:5, 55:5, 71 :9, 78 :8, 86:2, 94:9, 95 :8, 100 : 12 , 105: 12 , 108 :5, 130 : 18 , 133 : 18 , 136: 19 , 139 :7, 143 : 15, 146 : 18 , 148: 15, 153 :1, 159 :23 , 170: 25 **Environmental** [17] - 1: 17 , 2:6, 3: 16, 12 :7, 24:24, 30 :25, 49 :1, 67:3, 75:3, 137: 17, 137 :20 , 145:22 , 145 :24 , 146:24 , 152 :25, 158: 11 , 168 :7 **environmentalists** [1] - 16 :4 **EPA** [85] - 7:23 , 7:25,8:6, 16 :8, 16 : 14 ,

21 : 10, 21 : 15, 21 : 19 , 22 :2, 22 :7, 22 : 16 , 23:1, 24: 20 , 25:1, 36: 13, 36 : 14, 36 : 19 , 37: 19, 37 : 25, 39 : 15, 39: 16, 40 :3, 40:4, 41 :3, 41 : 25, 43:4, 46:1, 52 : 15, 63: 15, 63: 19, 67 :1, 70: 10, 72 :6, 72 : 22 , 74:8, 75:6, 75: 21 , 79: 16, 80: 19, 88 :9, 105 :6, 105 : 19 , 113: 15, 113 : 19 , 119: 12 , 120 :8, 120 : 22 , 120 : 23 , 122 :5, 122 :7, 122 : 11 , 122 : 17 , 122 : 18 , 123: 19 , 124 : 17 , 131 : 24 , 144 :8, 144 : 23 , 148 : 20 , 149: 11 , 151 :1, 151 : 12 , 154 : 13 , 155:6, 155 : 10 , 155: 14 , 157 : 17 , 157: 18 , 157 : 23 , 157: 25, 158 :7, 158 : 12 , 158 : 18 , 158: 22 , 159 :1, 161 : 11 , 162 :8, 164 : 13 , 164: 21 , 164 : 22 , 166:4, 168: 11 **EPA 's**  [ 16] - 21 :9, 27: 22, 42 :7, 55: 14, 80: 23, 80 : 25, 142 :4, 144 : 16 , 145:1, 155 : 17 , 159:7, 160 : 19 , 161 :8, 161 :9, 166 :8, 168 : 14 **epidemics** [1] - 52 : 21 **Episcopal** [1] - 69:8 **equal** [1] - 75 :21 **equals** [1] - 112 :25 **equipment** [2] - 59: 23, 93 : 14 **equiv alents**  [2] - 85:6, 85:8 **era** [1] - 170 : 17 **Erik** [5] - 12 :6, 30:24 , 99: 20, 99 : 22, 141 :4 **ERIK** [3] - 3: 15, 6: 11 , 152 : 12 **eriksg @**  **westernlaw .** **org** [1] - 3: 18 **error** [1] - 152 :21 **errors** [2] - 17 :22 , 29:7 **es pecially**  [2] - 62 : 15, 169 : 14 **essential** [1] - 153 : 16 **essentially** [1] - 92 : 11 **established** [3] - 108 : 18 , 124:20 , 135 :20 **establishing** [1] - 10: 12 **estimate** [8] - 28 : 19 , 28:22, 28 :23, 40 : 18 , 42 :6, 42 :7, 105:1, 146 : 13 **estimated** [5] - 28:8, 28:9, 98: 16 , 151 : 12 , 154 : 14 **estimates** [9] - 27:22, 27 :25, 28 :1, 28: 15, 28 : 17, 31 :3, 38:25, 56 :5, 151 : 14 **estimating** [1] - 59:9 **et** [2] - 63 :22 , 151 :23 **ethical** [3] - 65 :3, 69:4, 154 :25 **ethics** [1] - 154 :20 **evaluate** [3] - 43:5, 106 :3, 159 : 13 **evaluating** [1] - 105 :8 **evaluation** [1] - 119 : 16 **eventually** [1] - 11 :2 **everywhere** [2] - 67: 14, 145 :2 **evidence** [23] - 30 :3, 47:8, 80:4, 83 :8, 83: 11 , 97 : 16, 97 :20 , 103 :22 , 159: 14 , 159 :25, 160: 12 , 160 : 18 , 161 : 10 , 161 :22 , 161 :23 , 162 : 18 , 163:6, 163:9, 163 : 10 , 163: 11 , 164 : 18 , 164:22 **evidentiary** [3] - 80:3, 103 : 18, 161 :20 **evolve** [2] - 44 :22 , 106 : 17 **exact** [1] - 121 :20 **exacting** [1] - 67: 12 **exactly** [1] - 39 :9 **exaggerated** [2] - 143 :6, 143 : 11 **Examination** [8] - 4:5, 4:6, 4:9, 5:7, 5: 10 , 5: 11 , 5: 14 , 6: 13 **examination** [ 11 ] - 4:8, 5:8, 5: 15, 10 : 17 , 15: 10, 18 :7, 30:5, 156 :24 , 164: 17 , 166 :23 , 167: 12 **EXAMINATION** [10] - 18: 13, 30 :21 , 32 : 15, 45:4, 82 :4, 87 :23 , 96: 11 , 99 : 17, 110 :4, 159 : 10 **examine** [2] - 162 :8, 166 :25 **examined** [24] - 18: 12, 48 :5, 50: 16, 54:8, 56: 14 , 58: 10, 61 : 10, 64 : 11 , 69 :21 , 74:20, 82 :3, 96: 10, 101 : 16 , 130:5, 132 : 14 , 134: 15, 138 :5, 141 : 18 , 145 : 10 , 147:6, 150:7, 152 : 14 , 167: 18 , 169 :7 **Examiner** [3] - 76 :25, 87:7, 161 : 13 **example** [3] - 56:24, 58:3, 169 :1 **except** [2] - 23 :25, 60:21 **excess** [2] - 41 :2, 78:9 **exclude** [1] - 95:21 **excluded** [1] - 169 :24 **exclusive** [1] - 85 :7 **exclusively** [1] - 157 :3 **excuse** [6] - 25:25, 46: 16, 73 :24, 74 :2, 127 :9, 164 :6 **executive** [4] - 48: 13, 64 :22, 78 : 17 , 96:21 **executives** [1] - 68:21 **exhibit** [2] - 33 :8, 164 : 12 **Exhibit** [31 ] - 16 :1, 16: 16, 17 : 17, 18 :3, 22 :22, 22 :23, 23 :2, 23: 17, 26 :2, 26:3, 33: 12, 36 : 13, 42 :21 , 82 : 17, 83 :8, 83: 11 , 97:6, 97: 15, 97:20, 101 :25, 102 :3, 102 : 15, 103:9, 103 : 18 , 103:22 , 110 : 12 , 125: 19 , 160 :24 , 161 :1, 161 :2 **Exhibits** [6] - 19 : 15, 20:25, 29 : 15, 29 : 17 , 29:21 , 30 :2 **exhibits** [2] - 160 :6, 164 : 11 **exist** [2] - 75 : 11 , 143 :4 **existence** [1] - 61 :21 **existing** [6] - 24:7, 42 :2, 42 :4, 105: 13, 115 : 11 , 117: 14 **expand** [1] - 115: 12 **expect** [2] - 11 :5, 35: 16 **expected** [1] - 40: 12 **expensed** [1] - 88 :2 **expensive** [4] - 52 :22, 80 : 13, 148 :21 **experience** [5] - 79:8, 82 :25, 97:25, 103 :25, 116:24 **expert** [2] - 159:1, 161 :23 **expertise** [1] - 161 :4 **expired** [1] - 148 : 12 **Expires** [2] - 173 :20 , 173 :22 **explain** [4] - 13: 13, 21 :3, 26: 19 , 115 :4 **explained** [2] - 22 :20, 22 :21 **explaining** [1] - 12 :23 **explanation** [3] - 55:24, 56 :6, 148 : 10 **exploited** [1] - 63:6 **extend** [3] - 16 :22 , 17:2, 63:1 **extends** [1] - 35 :6 **extension** [3] - 41 :20, 63 : 16, 89 :2 **extensive** [2] - 16 :3, 79:8 **extent** [2] - 164 : 15, 165 : 19 **external** [1] - 66 : 10 **extra** [1] - 54 :20 **extreme** [2] - 62 : 17, 142 :20 **eye** [1] - 51 : 19 **eyesight** [1] - 113 :2 

## F

**fabric** [1] - 86 :7 **face** [2] - 21 : 12, 55:20 **facilitate** [2] - 57: 13, 108 : 10 **facilities** [4] - 17 :7, 83:5, 119 :21 , 120 : 10 **facility** [25] - 57 :2, 60: 18, 83 : 16, 85 :5, 85: 10, 85 : 15, 85 : 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 10

85:24, 88 :8, 89: 10, 94: 10, 94 :20, 95 :2, 110 :21 , 110:22 , 111 : 18 , 112 :5, 112 :7, 112 : 16 , 112 :21 , 112 :22 , 118:25, 120 : 14 , 130: 19 , 130 :23 **facility -** **wide** [2] - 111 : 18 , 112 :7 **fact** [ 10] - 36:22, 51 :5, 80:23 , 119 :8, 128 :23 , 143: 19 , 154 :22 , 157:20 , 161 :8, 161 :22 **factor** [7] - 25 : 11 , 93:5, 105 : 13, 157 :5, 166 :6, 168 : 12 , 168: 14 **factors** [7] - 55 :6, 81 :2, 105 :8, 105 : 19 , 106 :6, 157 :6, 159 :20 **failed** [1] - 158 : 15 **failure** [1] - 21 :9 **fair** [2] - 31 : 18, 68 :3 **faith** [6] - 64 :23 , 66:5, 67:8, 67 : 15, 68: 19, 69 :7 **falls** [1] - 168 : 17 **familiar** [2] - 26 :5, 167 : 15 **families** [2] - 135 :3, 155 :1 **fan** [5] - 117:25, 118 :1, 118 :9, 118 : 11 , 118 : 12 **far** [ 16] - 46 :6, 62 : 12, 92 :6, 143 : 17, 154 : 17 , 156 :1, 156 :3, 156 :7, 157 : 13 , 160: 19 , 161 :4, 161 :9, 163 :6, 170 :4, 171 : 13 **far -** **reaching** [1] - 62 : 12 **farm** [1] - 136 : 15 **farmer** [1] - 135 :4 **Farmington** [ 19] - 3: 11 , 11 :6, 11 :9, 13 :2, 13:24, 13 :25, 63 : 14 , 63:22, 71 : 16, 128 :7, 128 : 10 , 130: 13 , 135 : 18 , 137: 15, 140 :8, 140 :22 , 140 :24 , 142 : 13 , 171 :25 **fast** [1] - 46 : 11 **fault** [1] - 148: 18 **FD** [1] - 118 : 11 **Fe** [ 13] - 1: 19 , 2:5, 2: 13 , 2:20 , 3:23 , 11 :6, 51 :20, 74 :25, 140 :21 ,142 : 11 , 142 : 18 ,

144 : 12 **feasible** [8] - 27: 16, 27: 17, 44 : 12, 106 :3, 110 : 25, 111 :4, 120 : 15, 125: 18 **features** [2] - 121 : 15 **February** [7] - 17: 19, 24: 18, 104 : 24 , 107:4, 107 : 14 , 108:9, 109:3 **Fed** [1] - 7: 11 **federal** [37] - 15 :24 , 16:4, 17: 24 , 20:22, 21 : 13, 24 : 16, 25 :22 , 25: 25, 26 :1, 26: 15, 27:8, 27: 10 , 35: 17, 38: 21 , 41 :7, 41 : 13, 41 : 15, 49 : 11 , 49 : 18 , 51 : 14, 77 : 12, 77 : 13 , 88:9, 114 :7, 124 : 11 , 136 : 19 , 138: 18 , 138 : 21 , 138: 24 , 146 :3, 147 : 25, 148 : 20 , 151 :1, 151 :2, 158 : 13 , 159:5 **Federal** [ 10] - 36 : 17 , 37:3, 55: 14 , 155 :7, 155 : 14 , 158:8, 159:7, 160 : 19 , 161 : 11 , 168 : 14 **feeding** [1] - 126 :2 **Felicia** [2] - 10:2, 50: 24 **FELICIA** [1] - 2:3 **fell** [3] - 58: 21 , 106 : 15, 150: 21 **felt** [1] - 25 : 14 **few** [15] - 10 : 15, 15:8, 30: 17 , 40: 11 , 60: 16, 77 :4, 80:22, 99: 15, 99 : 24, 102 :4, 116 : 22 , 119:7, 125:2, 130 : 16 , 131 : 17 **fight** [1] - 52 : 16 **figure** [3] - 123: 17 , 137 :3, 143 :2 **Figure** [1] - 33 :22 **figures** [3] - 33:22 , 34:7, 143 : 10 **Filed** [3] - 8:23, 9:4, 9:7 **filed** [5] - 17: 20, 24: 18, 82 : 14, 162 : 10 , 163 : 18 **filing** [2] - 92 : 12, 152 : 22 **filings** [2] - 97 :1, 161 : 16 **filters** [1] - 86 :7 **final** [7] - 37: 12, 119 :8, 119 : 12 , 121 :24 , 122 :4, 122 :9, 156 : 11 **finalized** [2] - 21 : 19 , 122 :20 **finally** [4] - 17: 18 , 80:7, 120 :8, 158 :2 **finance** [1] - 98 :4 **financial** [1] - 68: 19 **financially** [1] - 173 : 16 **findings** [1] - 158:7 **fine** [4] - 46 :24 , 47: 12, 47 : 13, 129 : 11 **finish** [1] - 140 : 11 **finished** [2] - 110:24, 140 :20 **FIP** [1] - 79 : 17 **Fire** [2] - 118 :6, 118 : 14 **fired** [7] - 44 : 16 , 44:24, 62 : 14, 62 :20 , 66: 12, 66 :21 , 66 :23 **firm** [1] - 12 :2 **first** [51 ] - 13 : 16 , 15: 11 , 18 : 11 , 22 : 14 , 32 :6, 36: 11 , 47:3, 48:4, 50: 15, 54:7, 56: 13, 58 :9, 58: 17, 58: 18, 59 :6, 61 :9, 64: 10, 69 :20, 74 : 19 , 81 : 12, 82 :2, 86: 14, 88:21 , 90 :21 , 90 :23 , 96:9, 98: 16 , 98:21 , 100 :4, 101 : 15, 102 :6, 105 :9, 105 :23 , 107 :24 , 110:21 , 130 :4, 132 : 13 , 134 : 14 , 138:4, 141 : 17 , 145:9, 147:5, 150 :4, 150 :6, 152 : 13 , 153 :7, 156 : 16 , 164:4, 164 :8, 164 : 10 **Fischer** [ 15] - 9:8, 79:7, 101 : 10, 101 : 18 , 101 :21 , 101 :23 , 102 : 18 , 103:7, 103 : 12 , 103:24 , 109 :3, 110 :2, 114 : 19 , 121 : 16 , 127: 11 **FISCHER** [25] - 5: 13 , 81 :22, 101 : 14 , 101 :21 , 102 :1, 102 :4, 102 :21 , 104:1, 104 : 19 , 114:21 , 115 :6, 115 :22 , 116 :20 , 117:2, 119:3, 119 : 11 , 119:20 , 120 :2, 120 : 12 , 120 :21 , 121 : 10 , 121 : 19 , 122 : 13 , 123 : 12 , 125:22 **Fish** [4] - 8: 17 , 24:21 , 25 :4, 158 :25 **fit** [2] - 14 : 16, 115 : 11 **fits** [2] - 118:25, 151 :2 **five** [19] - 34 :25, 37: 15, 47 :20, 84 :5, 89: 19, 91 : 19, 92 :2, 92 :3, 95:2, 105:8, 105 : 19 , 105:22 , 120 :24 , 122 :2, 129:9, 133 : 19 , 140: 12 , 140 : 16 , 141 : 15 **five -** **step** [1] - 105 :22 **five -** **year** [1] - 89 : 19 **fixated** [1] - 157 :3 **fixates** [1] - 156: 16 **fixed** [1] - 49:22 **flawed** [1] - 157:23 **flip** [1] - 18 :4 **floods** [1] - 62 : 18 **flow** [1] - 60:9 **flu** [2] - 91 : 15, 91 : 17 **flue** [5] - 93 :21 , 94: 18, 117 :22 , 117 :25, 118:2 **focal** [1] - 31 : 19 **focus** [4] - 77: 10, 86: 16, 104 :25, 107:5 **focused** [2] - 52 :25, 107 :22 **focuses** [1] - 125: 19 **focusing** [1] - 108: 12 **folks** [5] - 47:21 , 60:6, 60:7, 75 :25, 76: 16 **follow** [7] - 38 : 18 , 38:24, 45 :1, 95: 17, 95: 18, 100 :24 , 123:21 **follow -** **up** [7] - 38 : 18 , 38:24, 45 :1, 95: 17, 95: 18, 100 :24 , 123:21 **followed** [2] - 105 :6, 105 :22 **following** [1] - 109 :4 **follows** [23] - 18 : 12, 36: 11 , 48 :5, 50: 16, 54:8, 56: 14 , 58: 10, 61 : 10, 64 : 11 , 69 :21 , 74:20, 82 :3, 96: 10, 101 : 16 , 130:5, 132 : 14 , 134: 15, 138 :5, 141 : 18 , 145 : 10 , 147:6, 150:7, 152 : 14 **food** [4] - 62 : 19 , 67: 16, 143 :4 **foolish** [1] - 59 : 10 **FOR** [1] - 1:5 **forced** [2] - 117:21 , 118 :4 **forecasts** [1] - 96 :24 **foregoing** [2] - 173 :7, 173 :8 **Forerunners** [2] - 150 : 13 , 150:23 **Forest** [2] - 24 :20 , 25:1 **form** [2] - 13: 18, 129 : 11 **formatting** [1] - 29 :8 **former** [1] - 150 : 14 **formulas** [1] - 51 :7 **forth** [8] - 110 :9, 111 : 16 , 112 :21 , 131 : 12 , 155: 14 , 157 :9, 158 : 10 , 159:25 **forthcoming** [1] - 12 :22 **Forum** [1] - 20 : 19 **forward** [7] - 13 :8, 20:21 , 79 :25, 92 : 16 , 92 : 19, 92 :20, 171 : 11 **Four** [26] - 25 : 13 , 37:5, 37:6, 37 :7, 59: 11 , 62 :6, 63: 19, 63:23, 70 : 12, 72 :9, 77:23, 78 :5, 84: 14, 84: 15, 85 : 13, 85 :25, 120 :22 , 121 :7, 133 : 15, 135:22 , 137 : 13 , 142 :9, 143 : 17 , 144: 10 , 146 :22 , 153: 11 **four** [ 16] - 23 : 16 , 25: 11 , 27 :1, 34:8, 37: 15, 47 :3, 60:20, 84:1, 108 : 15, 111 : 17 , 114 :22 , 120:21 , 139 :24 , 143:3, 152 :24 , 156: 14 **four -** **factor** [1] - 25: 11 **four -** **year** [1] - 108 : 15 **fourth** [3] - 53:4, 105 : 15, 106:5 **frame** [2] - 89 :1, 90:25 **frames** [1] - 114 : 10 **Francis** [2] - 2:4, 2: 19 **Franciscan** [1] - 64:22 **frankly** [4] - 157 :2, 158 : 15, 158: 19 , 161 :4 **free** [2] - 145 : 17 , 170 : 18 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 11

**fresh** [1] - 68 : 10 **Friday** [3] - 11 :9, 129 :8, 152 : 19 **friendly** [1] - 131 : 17 **friends** [2] - 71 : 16 , 136 :6 **front** [9] - 128 :2, 147 :21 , 159: 14 , 160 :2, 160 :8, 160 : 13 , 163 : 10 , 167: 13 , 168 : 11 **frustration** [1] - 126 : 15 **fuel** [7] - 38 :1, 62 :7, 96:24, 123 : 13 , 123 : 14 , 123: 17 , 130 :23 **FULFER** [ 16] - 2:7, 41 :25, 44 :8, 91 :4, 91 : 10, 91 : 18, 92 :6, 92 : 14, 92 :25, 93 :3, 93: 15, 93 :23, 123 :9, 170 : 10 , 170: 13 , 171 : 17 **Fulfer** [2] - 44 : 14 , 170 : 12 **full** [21 ] - 48 :8, 50: 19, 54: 11 , 54 :25, 56 : 17 , 58: 13, 61 : 13, 64 : 14 , 69:24, 74 :23, 85 :6, 85:8, 116 :4, 132 : 17 , 134 : 18 , 136:22 , 138 :8, 141 :21 , 143 :23 , 145: 13 , 147 :9 **full -time**  [3] - 85 :6, 85:8, 136 :22 **fully** [1] - 131 :8 **function** [1] - 123 : 13 **fundamentally** [2] - 156 :9, 157 :8 **funds** [1] - 68:23 **furthers** [2] - 87:1, 88: 12 **future** [ 16] - 35 : 19 , 39:4, 58:4, 62 :3, 63 :3, 63:24, 66 :24, 67 :22 , 69:3, 88: 14 , 89:6, 89: 13, 89 :21 , 90 :2, 123 :1, 125 :1 

## G

**G-E-N-T-R- Y**  [1] - 138 : 10 **gain** [1] - 136 :2 **gained** [1] - 111 :7 **gallant** [1] - 131 : 16 **gap** [1] - 115:5 **gas** [ 16] - 25 : 13 ,48: 20, 84 : 21 , 85 :1,

91 : 16, 91 : 17, 93 :22 , 94: 18, 117 : 22 , 118:1, 118 :2, 135 : 23 , 143 : 21 , 144:5, 167: 14 **general** [ 11 ] - 11 : 19 , 46:4, 86:1, 110: 16, 118 : 19 , 126: 10 , 137 : 15, 145: 24 , 165 : 17 , 168: 20 , 169 : 15 **General** [3] - 2: 11 , 2: 12 , 2: 17 **General 's**  [2] - 157 : 21 , 157: 22 **generally** [2] - 46: 11 , 107 :1 **generate** [2] - 60 :20 , 131 : 15 **generated** [3] - 62 : 12, 136 :1, 137 : 13 **generating** [4] - 77: 22, 83 : 16, 85 : 10 , 131 :9 **Generating** [38] - 17: 15, 26 : 10, 27 :1, 27: 20, 28 : 20, 35 : 19 , 38:1, 52 :1, 52 : 17 , 59: 11 , 67 :6, 70: 12, 71 :2, 72 :2, 72 :8, 72 : 25, 74 :9, 77:21 , 77: 23, 84 : 14, 84 : 17 , 98: 12, 119 :9, 123 :25, 130 : 11 , 130: 20 , 130 : 22 , 131 : 10 , 131 : 16 , 131 : 19 , 132 : 24 , 133: 14 , 134 :4, 136 : 22 , 142 :6, 142 :7, 154 : 10 , 155: 19 **generation** [3] - 57:6, 78:2, 82 : 13 **generations** [1] - 70: 19 **GENTRY** [4] - 5:22 , 138 :3, 138 :9, 138 : 12 **Gentry** [2] - 138:9, 138 : 14 **geographic** [1] - 147 : 20 **Gerard** [5] - 9:4, 78: 16, 92 :9, 96:7, 96: 18 **GERARD** [3] - 5:9, 81 : 21 , 96 :8 **Gessing** [4] - 141 :3, 145 :7, 145 : 14 , 147:2 **GESSING** [5] - 6:5, 145 :8, 145 : 14 , 145: 16 **given** [9] - 63 : 18, 67: 21 , 165 :1, 166 :2, 166 :25, 167:8, 167 : 18 , 169:4, 173: 12 **glaciers** [1] - 68 :6 **glide** [3] - 124 :21 , 124 :22 , 125:1 **global** [4] - 52 :21 , 65: 14, 65 : 17, 75 :8 **goal** [6] - 25:7, 81 :9, 87:1, 88: 13 , 88: 16, 88: 18 **goals** [5] - 23 : 11 , 23: 13, 43 : 11 , 67 : 11 , 81 : 10 **God** [2] - 62 :2, 62 :22 **GOODRICH** [25] - 3: 15, 6: 11 , 12 :6, 29:24, 30 : 17, 30 :22 , 30:23, 31 :9, 31 : 14, 31 : 18, 31 :23, 32 :3, 87: 17, 99 : 15, 99 : 18 , 109 :24 , 129:6, 152 : 12 , 152 : 16 , 160 : 16 , 164:9, 168:1, 170 :8, 171 :1, 171 :21 **Goodrich** [24] - 4:7, 5: 12 , 12 :5, 12 :7, 30: 16, 30 :24, 32 :4, 87: 16, 99 : 14, 99 :22 , 100 : 18 , 109:23 , 127 :20 , 128: 12 , 129 :4, 141 :5, 152 : 11 , 159 :9, 161 : 15, 163:1, 164 :8, 169 :23 , 170:1, 170 :7 **goodrich** [1] - 163 :20 **governed** [2] - 111 :9, 120 :22 **governing** [3] - 21 : 16, 23 : 16, 166 :7 **government** [9] - 55:2, 68:21 , 133 :24 , 136 :5, 136 :20 , 137:2, 151 :1, 151 :2, 151 :23 **governments** [1] - 137 :5 **governs** [1] - 169 : 14 **graduate** [1] - 104 :4 **graduating** [1] - 60: 17 **Grand** [3] - 15 :21 , 16:20, 20 : 17 **grandchildren** [2] - 69:4, 71 : 13 **Grande** [1] - 153:5 **grandkids** [1] - 58 :24 **grandparents** [1] - 71 : 12 **GRA NTHAM**  [39] - 2: 17 , 11 : 16 , 14:21 , 18: 14, 18 : 15, 18 : 18 , 18:21 , 18 :25, 19 :3, 19:7, 19: 12 , 19: 17, 19:20, 19 :23, 20 :2, 20:6, 20: 11 , 20:23, 21 :2, 24: 15, 25:23, 26:8, 26: 19 , 27:21 , 28:24, 29 : 12, 37 :5, 41 :22, 45 :2, 45:5, 45: 12, 45 : 16, 45 : 18 , 45:22, 46 : 13, 87 : 11 , 99:9, 109 : 18, 165 : 11 **Grantham** [14] - 4:5, 4:9, 11 : 15, 11 : 18 , 14:1, 14:2, 14 :20 , 14:25, 45 :1, 87: 10, 99:8, 109 : 17, 165 :9, 166 : 10 **graph** [1] - 34 : 12 **graphs** [1] - 51 :7 **grave** [1] - 65 :6 **great** [4] - 30 :20 , 68: 19, 116 :7, 129 : 17 **greater** [2] - 104 : 16 , 143 : 18 **greatly** [2] - 131 :2, 131 :25 **greed** [1] - 64 :3 **green** [1] - 34 :23 **greenhouse** [1] - 167 : 14 **GREGORY** [1] - 2:7 **grid** [1] - 57 : 12 **grossly** [1] - 143:6 **ground** [3] - 71 : 19 , 158 :6, 164 :22 **grounds** [1] - 161 :25 **group** [6] - 19 : 10 , 91 :23, 96 :24, 96 :25, 97:2, 150 : 13 **groups** [5] - 153:1, 159 :23 , 165:20 , 170 :3, 171 : 10 **growing** [2] - 40:8, 71 : 15 **grown** [1] - 142 :1 **growth** [5] - 24 :2, 39: 15, 40 :6, 40: 11 , 40: 18 **Guardians** [5] - 3: 14, 12 :9, 31 :1, 99 :23 , 153 :6 **guess** [ 10] - 38: 11 , 44: 11 , 73 : 14, 88 :21 , 92 : 19, 94 :2, 94:8, 127 :3, 160 : 15, 163:22 **guidance** [2] - 43:4, 108 : 18 **guideline** [1] - 105 :7 **Guidelines** [1] - 7: 10 **guidelines** [ 12] - 28:4, 28:5, 28 :8, 45 :7, 105 :6, 105 :20 , 109:1, 111 : 10 , 111 :25, 116 :8, 123 : 19 , 166:7 **guiding** [1] - 27 : 10 **guy** [1] - 127 :20 

## H

**habitat** [1] - 68 : 12 **half** [4] - 84 :1, 84 :2, 131 :8, 131 :9 **hand** [7] - 28:9, 54 :5, 98:20, 104 : 16 , 127 : 18 , 130:2, 150:4 **handle** [3] - 25 : 15, 116 :2, 118 : 11 **hands** [4] - 13 : 11 , 116 :9, 141 :8, 146 : 16 **happy** [3] - 83 : 15, 95:3, 109 : 12 **hard** [5] - 46 : 10 , 129 : 18 , 139:2, 146:6, 148 :1 **harmful** [1] - 75 :5 **Harold** [1] - 2:4 **harsh** [1] - 75 : 13 **Hayhoe** [1] - 65 :21 **Haze** [9] - 7:6, 7:8, 8: 15, 8: 19 , 15 : 14 , 15: 19, 20 :22, 23 : 15, 77: 13 **haze** [37] - 10:6, 15:24, 17 :5, 19:8, 20: 12, 20 : 14, 20 :21 , 21 :8, 37:4, 48 : 17 , 49: 11 , 51 : 14, 51 : 19 , 51 :21 , 55 :23, 56 :2, 62 : 12, 65 :4, 66:24, 70: 11 , 70 : 16, 71 :2, 71 :5, 71 : 12 , 71 : 18, 77:9, 86:4, 86 :8, 126 : 16 , 139:22 , 142 : 11 , 143:23 , 149 :7, 153 :22 , 154:9, 154 : 14 , 154: 16 **HAZE** [1] - 1:5 **head** [7] - 15:4, 31 :8, 41 :23, 51 :8, 53:23, 115 : 19 , 142 : 13 **health** [29] - 31 : 15, 31 :25, 45 : 13, 55 :5, 59:8, 62 : 13 , 62 : 15, 66: 13, 66 :24, 67 : 14 , 67:22, 71 :20, 73 :20 , 75:9, 75: 14 , 77: 15, 100 :8, 143 :25, 151 :9, 153 : 18 , 153:21 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 12

156 :21 , 157:1, 157 : 12 , 159: 17 , 170 : 14 , 171 :6, 171 : 15 **Health** [1] - 19 :25 **health -** **related** [1] - 77: 15 **healthy** [3] - 62 :3, 69:3, 136 :1 **hear** [21 ] - 10:5, 13:21 , 13 :22, 13 :24 , 14:5, 14:8, 14 : 14 , 14: 15, 39 :20, 52 : 18 , 52 :20, 57 : 15, 59 :8, 59: 14, 79 :7, 86:20, 89:22, 122 :8, 128 : 14 , 140 :22 **heard** [8] - 59 :1, 60:2, 80: 10 , 81 :5, 103 : 11 , 140:21 , 148 :2, 170 :3 **hearing** [24] - 1: 17 , 10:3, 10:9, 10 :24 , 11 :5, 13:6, 13 : 10 , 29:4, 46: 18 , 51 : 13, 52 : 19, 63 : 14, 64 : 19 , 83: 10, 97 : 18, 103 :21 , 107 :5, 113 :20 , 135:7, 135 : 10 , 142 : 18 , 168 :25, 169:6, 169: 13 **Hearing** [25] - 2:2, 10:2, 10: 14 , 11 : 16, 11 :24, 12 : 13, 14 : 12 , 14:21 , 15 :2, 29: 13, 32 :8, 45:2, 76 :24 , 87:6, 97: 14 , 128 : 15, 129 : 15, 161 : 13 , 163 : 12 , 165: 12 , 166 : 14 , 167:22 , 168 :1, 169 : 11 , 171 : 22 **hearings** [4] - 70 : 15, 71 :22, 166 : 19 , 169: 19 **heart** [1] - 163 :22 **heating** [1] - 170 : 17 **heavily** [2] - 70 : 10, 70:24 **heavy** [1] - 145:1 **helium** [1] - 135: 23 **hello** [1] - 70 :3 **help** [4] - 15: 12, 66: 19, 85 :22, 108 : 10 **helping** [1] - 131 : 21 **helps** [1] - 148 :5 **hereby** [1] - 173 :7 **hereto** [1] - 173: 16 **hiding** [1] - 166 : 13 **high** [7] - 38: 17 , 40:2, 104 : 17, 124 :25, 148 :9, 168 :22 , 169: 18 **higher** [8] - 55 :2, 117 : 19 , 118: 18 ,121 :3, 121 :7, 151 :21 ,

152 :5, 152 :7 **highest** [3] - 64 :2, 64:4, 144 :6 **highlight** [3] - 80 :7, 106 : 11 , 107:2 **hired** [1] - 79 :4 **historical** [1] - 44 :2 **history** [3] - 94: 13, 106 : 12 , 142 :8 **hit** [5] - 104 : 17 , 115 : 17 , 133: 21 , 139 :2, 146 :6 **hold** [4] - 64:4, 73 :4, 90:3, 137 :8 **holding** [1] - 83 :3 **Holly** [1] - 69 : 11 **home** [3] - 68:7, 153 : 12 , 171 :8 **hop** [1] - 144: 11 **hope** [4] - 50:4, 54: 22, 68 : 15, 77 :5 **hopefully** [1] - 89:20 **hoping** [1] - 75 : 17 **hordes** [1] - 47: 18 **hour** [1] - 1:20 **hours** [1] - 150:22 **House** [3] - 134 :20 , 138 : 10 , 138: 14 **house** [1] - 57 : 11 **household** [1] - 138 : 21 **huge** [3] - 66:8, 126 : 17 , 143: 16 **hum** [2] - 113: 16, 116 : 20 **human** [6] - 51 : 18, 55:5, 59:7, 66 : 13 , 113 :2, 113 : 17 **humans** [1] - 59 :5 **Humboldt** [1] - 19 :6 **hundred** [3] - 51 :20 , 85: 21 , 117 : 10 **hundreds** [1] - 51 :5 **hurt** [1] - 148 :6 **husband** [2] - 150 : 15, 150: 20 **hybrid** [3] - 115 :7, 116 : 11 , 116: 16 

## I

**iconic** [2] - 153: 10, 153 : 15 **identical** [1] - 140 :2 **identified** [2] - 16: 11 , 21 :4 **identify** [1] - 105:23 **ignore** [1] - 164:22 **imagine** [1] - 130 : 17 **impact** [27] - 36:1, 42 :23, 50 :6, 73:24, 80: 11 , 87 :3, 89:5, 92 : 10, 98 : 10, 98 : 11 , 98: 16, 98 :21 , 98 :23 , 99:24, 100 :5, 100 : 15, 126 : 17 , 136: 19 , 138 :21 , 146: 11 , 148 : 14 , 148: 15, 149 : 13 , 149: 15, 151 :9, 151 : 10 , 170:24 **impacted** [2] - 66: 15, 147 :24 **impacts** [32] - 31 :7, 31 :20, 31 :24, 55 :5, 68:4, 70:20 , 70:21 , 71 :20, 73 :20, 73 :21 , 78: 19, 86 :8, 100 :1, 100 :8, 100 : 12 , 105 : 12 , 106:5, 106:9, 112 : 11 , 112 :20 , 118 :7, 124 :4, 146 :20 , 154 : 11 , 154: 12 , 154 :25, 156: 17 , 157 :3, 157 :5, 157 : 11 , 170 :25 **impairment** [1] - 22 : 19 **imperative** [1] - 69 :5 **implement** [4] - 21 :22, 60 :7, 68:3, 115 :24 **IMPLEMENTATION** [1] - 1:4 **implementation** [8] - 21 : 12, 44 : 12, 54 :25, 67:1, 80:5, 124: 11 , 148 : 18 , 168: 17 **Implementation** [26] - 8: 14, 8:20 , 10 :5, 15: 17, 37 :3, 48:25, 55: 15, 137 : 19 , 138 : 17 , 139: 10 , 139 :23 , 145:21 , 149 :4, 149 : 11 , 149 : 17 , 155:7, 155 : 12 , 155: 13 , 155 : 15, 158:5, 158:8, 158 : 17 , 159:7, 164 :23 , 168:5, 168: 15 **implementations** [1]

- 114 :7 **implemented** [4] - 53: 15, 60 :6, 122 : 12 , 125 :5 **implementing** [2] - 67: 11 , 154 : 18 **imp lements**  [1] - 15:20 **implications** [1] - 65:25 **importance** [3] - 78:4, 78:5, 167:7 **important** [11 ] - 48:23, 77 :9, 84:7, 85: 14, 130 : 19 , 133:4, 144 :4, 144 : 19 , 149 :23 , 156: 18 , 168 :3 **importantly** [2] - 148 :4, 151 : 15 **impose** [1] - 158: 13 **impression** [1] - 168 :23 **impressive** [1] - 51 :7 **improper** [1] - 162 : 11 **improperly** [1] - 163 : 18 **improve** [6] - 24:3, 49:6, 49: 13 , 110 : 17 , 126 : 16 , 132 :23 **IMPROVEMENT** [1] - 1:1 **improvement** [20] - 34:6, 34: 10 , 35: 11 , 40: 17, 45 : 14, 53 :1, 53:5, 93: 16 , 93:25, 94:2, 105 : 18, 111 :7, 112 :2, 112 :6, 112 :8, 113 : 13 , 113: 14 , 116 :6, 116 : 15, 124: 18 **Improvement** [6] - 1: 18 , 2:6, 75 :4, 137 : 18 , 145:25, 146 :24 **improvements** [ 13] - 23:7, 35:3, 35 :7, 59: 16, 60 :3, 94:9, 94: 11 , 110 :7, 112 :22 , 114 : 11 , 125: 16 , 125 :20 , 159: 15 **improving** [ 12] - 23:24, 24 :6, 32 :20, 33:1, 33:3, 34 :4, 44: 15, 44 :23, 45 : 13 , 124 : 15, 124: 19 , 170 :25 **IN** [1] - 1:4 **in -between**  [1] - 116 : 17 **inaction** [1] - 62 :25 **inadequate** [1] - 142 : 16 **include** [9] - 23 : 12 , 25:22, 26 :8, 36:2, 42 :1, 53: 12 , 69:8, 165 : 17 , 166:3 **included** [7] - 16: 19, 23:2, 42 : 12 , 43:2, 55:1, 55: 13 , 164 :6 **includes** [4] - 22 :22, 23:4, 35:23 , 42 :23 **including** [ 11 ] - 16 :4, 20: 14, 36 :3, 53: 13, 55:6, 68:5, 79 : 10 , 121 : 16 , 124:8, 124:9, 159 : 17 **income** [5] - 49 :22 , 49:24, 142 :23 , 142 :25, 143:1 **increase** [10] - 27 :6, 55: 17, 74 :3, 98: 18, 99:1, 131 :25, 143 :7, 146 : 13 , 148:25, 171 :3 **increased** [7] - 100 :8, 151 :21 , 151 :24 , 153:22 , 154 :3, 171 :6 **increases** [1] - 27:4 **increasing** [1] - 52 :22 **independent** [1] - 25: 17 **independently** [1] - 112 : 18 **Indians** [3] - 57 :20 , 57:21 , 57 :22 **indicated** [6] - 15:2, 22 :2, 31 :4, 47 :5, 47: 10, 124 :6 **indicator** [1] - 65 :5 **indicators** [1] - 135:7 **indigenous** [1] - 62 :23 **indirect** [3] - 153 : 19 , 153 :21 , 156:21 **individual** [7] - 22 : 11 , 111 : 18 , 112 : 13 , 112 : 15, 112 : 17 , 112 : 19 , 145 :20 **industrial** [1] - 134:3 **industry** [8] - 16 :4, 55:2, 56:5, 116:23, 117 : 19 , 118: 19 , 118 :21 , 144:5 **Industry** [2] - 147 : 16 , 147 :23 **ineffective** [1] - 53: 11 **infants** [1] - 67 :22 **infeasible** [4] - 102 :8, 106 :1, 111 :1 **influence** [1] - 158 :4 **information** [8] - 7: 12 , 25:24 , 32 :22, 32 :25, 33 :6, 39:3, 123 :5, 136 :21 **informational** [1] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 13

107 :1 **ingenuity** [1] - 68: 20 **inhabitants** [1] - 68:9 **initial** [5] - 80 : 16 , 92 : 13, 120 : 13 , 121 :7, 152 : 16 **initiative** [2] - 146 : 19 , 146:23 **initiatives** [1] - 49 :4 **injection** [1] - 93 :8 **input** [2] - 14 : 12 , 16:4 **insane** [1] - 53 : 11 **inside** [1] - 117: 14 **install** [6] - 74 :9, 91 : 13, 92 :1, 92 :3, 121 : 12 , 121 : 13 **installation** [3] - 27:5, 28: 19 , 39:1 **installed** [5] - 72 :1, 94: 19, 95 :5, 95:7, 105 : 14 **installing** [1] - 98 : 11 **instance** [2] - 34: 22, 161 :8 **instant** [1] - 111 : 21 **instead** [6] - 72 : 18 , 74:7, 102 : 12, 115 :9, 117 :22 , 157:2 **integrated** [1] - 89: 15 **integrity** [1] - 68 : 20 **intend** [1] - 10: 18 **intending** [1] - 12 :20 **intensified** [1] - 153 :22 **intent** [10] - 19 : 14 , 20:24, 22 :24, 23 :3, 29: 16, 29 : 17, 128 :1, 165 :4, 165 :22 , 166: 22 **intention** [1] - 129 :5 **interest** [9] - 55:6, 55:22, 55 :25, 56 :8, 84:1, 84: 14 , 145 : 18 , 156 : 10 , 156: 14 **interested** [4] - 51 :3, 54:21 , 126 : 12 , 173: 17 **interesting** [5] - 65: 11 , 66 : 18, 83 :24 , 84:6, 172 :4 **interests** [3] - 55 :7, 158 :20 , 159: 17 **Interfaith** [5] - 64: 23, 66:6, 66: 19 , 69: 10, 69: 12 **interim** [1] - 128 : 20 **intermediate** [1] - 115 : 17 **intermittence** [1] - 85:4**intermittency** [1] -

84: 23 **intermittent** [2] - 83: 19, 89 : 24 **internal** [1] - 49:21 **internalize** [2] - 153 : 25, 154:8 **internalized** [1] - 154 :6 **international** [1] - 66:4 **introduce** [2] - 11 : 20, 129 : 24 **invalidated** [1] - 21 : 16 **invested** [2] - 86 :23 , 93: 10 **investing** [1] - 154 : 18 **investment** [ 11 ] - 78: 11 , 88 : 11 , 88 : 18 , 91 : 10, 91 : 20, 91 :21 , 92 :3, 92 :4, 92 : 13 , 92 : 16, 92 : 18 **investments** [4] - 52 : 25, 68 : 19, 84 :8, 132 : 22 **invite** [5] - 11 : 11 , 14:9, 50: 10 , 76:4, 162 : 21 **involved** [5] - 59 :9, 60:4, 70: 10 , 104 : 11 , 126 : 11 **involving** [1] - 145 : 24 **Iowa** [1] - 104 :4 **iPods** [1] - 171 :8 **issue** [ 17] - 16: 10, 59:2, 62 :6, 65 :4, 65: 24, 66 :3, 66:4, 70:6, 77: 22 , 79: 19, 143 :5, 143 : 24 , 143 : 25, 145: 18 , 148 :1, 149 :6, 149 :7 **issues** [7] - 20: 16 , 22 :4, 90: 12 , 130 : 18 , 131 :7, 151 :9, 155 :3 **IT** [1] - 1: 16 **item** [2] - 51 : 24 , 92 :2 **itself** [4] - 108 : 19 , 114 :3, 136 :5, 137 :1 

## J **jacks** [1] - 117: 18 **James** [3] - 50 : 13 , 50: 20, 51 :2 **JAMES** [4] - 2:8, 4: 12 , 50: 14 , 50:20 **January** [1] - 160:20 **Japan** [1] - 90 : 11 **JEFFREY** [1] - 2:9 **Jersey** [1] - 151 :4 **jet** [1] - 86 :7 **JOAN** [3] - 4:22 , 64:9, 64: 15 **Joan** [3] - 64:8, 64: 15, 64 :21 **job** [6] - 63 :8, 73 : 15, 131 :20 , 142 : 16 , 152 :7, 158 : 19 **jobs** [15] - 59 : 15, 59:23, 60 :1, 60: 11 , 73:6, 73: 10 , 73: 17, 130 :24 , 133:7, 133 : 12 , 133:21 , 133 :22 , 135:20 , 144 : 18 , 148: 13 **JOHN** [1] - 2:8 **join** [3] - 101 : 10, 159 :4, 166 : 14 **joined** [1] - 32 :5 **Journal** [1] - 65:9 **Juan** [ 102] - 3:8, 3: 14 , 12 :9, 12 : 15, 13:23, 17 : 14, 24 :22 , 26: 10, 27 :1, 27:20, 28:20, 30 :25, 35 : 19 , 38:1, 48: 18 , 52 :1, 52 :2, 52 : 10 , 52 : 16, 52 :20, 52 :23, 63 :20 , 67:5, 69: 18 , 69:25, 70:8, 70: 12 , 70: 18, 71 :2, 72 :2, 72 :7, 72 :25, 74 :9, 75:5, 75: 12, 77 :21 , 78 :4, 78:9, 78: 12 , 78: 15, 79: 17, 79 :24, 83 : 16 , 84: 13, 84 : 16, 84 : 17 , 84: 18, 85 :2, 85:5, 85:6, 85:8, 85 :9, 85: 11 , 85 : 14, 85 : 18 , 89: 10, 98 : 12, 99 :22 , 102 : 16 , 118: 18 , 121 :9, 121 : 12 , 121 : 13 , 121 : 15, 122 :25, 123: 16 , 123 :24 , 125: 18 , 125 :24 , 128:3, 130 : 11 , 130: 18 , 130 :20 , 130:22 , 131 : 10 , 131 : 15, 131 : 19 , 132 :20 , 132 :24 , 133: 13 , 133 : 14 , 133:23 , 133 :24 , 134:4, 134 :23 , 134:24 , 136 : 15, 136:21 , 136 :24 , 137:6, 137:7, 137 : 15, 139:3, 140 :23 , 142 :6, 149:7, 154 : 10 , 155: 19 **JUAN** [3] - 4:24, 69: 19, 69 :25 **Juan 's**  [2] - 123:1 **Juans** [2] - 58 :21 , 153 :6 **judge** [1] - 41 :20 **Judith** [1] - 54:2 **JUDY** [3] - 4: 14 , 54:6, 54: 12 **Judy** [1] - 54 : 12 **jump** [1] - 144: 12 **juncture** [1] - 162 : 12 **June** [6] - 1: 16 , 26:21 , 26 :23, 109 :4, 109 :5 **jurisdictional** [1] - 90:7 **Justice** [1] - 69 : 13 **justice** [3] - 62 :9, 68: 11 , 69 :5 **justification** [1] - 67: 10 **justifications** [1] - 52 :21 

## K

**Katherine** [1] - 65 :21 **Kathy** [1] - 10 :25 **keep** [ 12] - 47 :20 , 48:23, 50 :5, 56:22, 60:25, 61 :1, 126 :20 , 127 :3, 133 :2, 137 :22 , 141 : 14 , 144: 13 **kilowatt** [2] - 117: 11 , 117 : 12 **kind** [30] - 35 :21 , 36: 11 , 39 : 10, 39 :20 , 40:4, 40: 11 , 45: 11 , 53: 19, 84 :5, 84:7, 84:22, 91 :22, 91 :25, 104 : 16 , 105:4, 106 : 12 , 115:8, 115 : 14 , 115: 17 , 116 : 10 , 116:24 , 117 : 11 , 121 :6, 131 :3, 133 :25, 137:3, 152 :6, 156 : 19 , 167:4, 170: 18 **kinds** [3] - 59 : 18 , 59:22, 60 :5 **Kirtland** [2] - 135 : 18, 150 :21 **knees** [1] - 52 :23 **knowing** [1] - 150 : 19 **known** [1] - 16 :21 **knows** [2] - 131 : 14, 168 : 13 **Kyle** [3] - 9:8, 79 :7, 103 :1 **KYLE** [3] - 5: 13, 81 :22, 101 : 14 

## L

**L-A-W** [1] - 56: 18 **lacking** [1] - 72 : 10 **land** [9] - 16:5, 17:24, 25 :25, 26 :1, 26: 15, 63 :5, 133 :25, 142 :2, 144 : 13 **lands** [1] - 63 : 10 **landscape** [1] - 70:24 **landscapes** [2] - 153 : 11 , 153: 15 **large** [8] - 19 : 11 , 60:21 , 92 :3, 115 :5, 122 :2, 130 : 19 , 143 :22 , 147: 19 **last** [ 19] - 10 : 14 , 13: 16, 26 :2, 30:5, 34:7, 34:8, 34 :25, 40: 11 , 57 : 13, 58 :1, 104 :9, 105 : 17 , 106:8, 141 :1, 144 :22 , 148 : 10 , 158: 14 , 167 : 13 , 169: 19 **late** [2] - 40:4, 91 :8 **Latir** [1] - 153 : 14 **latitude** [1] - 95 : 11 **law** [3] - 12 :2, 55:4, 58:6 **Law** [ 10] - 3:4, 3: 16 , 3:22 , 12 :7, 24 :24 , 29:8, 30:25, 56: 11 , 56: 18, 152 :25 **LAW** [3] - 4: 16 , 56: 12, 56 : 18 **laws** [1] - 166:7 **lawyers** [1] - 164 :7 **lead** [2] - 19 :9, 60: 11 **leaders** [3] - 67 :8, 68:21 , 69 :7 **leadership** [1] - 68:20 **League** [6] - 54 : 15, 54:23, 55 : 11 , 55 : 19 , 55:25, 56 :3 **learned** [1] - 169 : 16 **least** [8] - 10 : 17 , 53: 10, 62 :23, 75 :6, 116 : 10 , 121 :20 , 156 :22 , 157: 19 **leave** [1] - 75 : 16 **leaves** [1] - 128 : 11 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 14

**left** [4] - 102 :7, 102 :9, 139 : 19 , 139: 20 **Legal** [1] - 3:9 **legal** [2] - 162 : 13 , 165 : 17 **legislative** [1] - 66:21 **legislator** [1] - 131 :6 **legislators** [5] - 128 : 19 , 129: 18 , 138 :2, 139 : 13 , 139: 14 **lenient** [1] - 161 :9 **less** [ 13] - 43: 13 , 49:24, 51 :22, 53 :4, 93: 14, 98 : 17, 114 :3, 129 :9, 154 : 17 , 156:2, 156 :3, 165 :2, 165 :23 **lesser** [1] - 164 : 18 **letter** [7] - 8:8, 54: 19 , 69:7, 73:1, 152 : 18, 152 : 19 , 164: 11 **level** [ 12] - 64:2, 64:3, 64:4, 65 :8, 71 : 19, 133 :3, 136 :8, 152 :5, 158 :6, 164 : 16 , 168 : 13 , 169: 18 **levels** [4] - 22 : 15, 123 : 10 , 123: 12 , 123 : 16 **License** [1] - 173 : 20 **licensing** [1] - 108 :7 **life** [13] - 62 : 10 , 62 :21 , 63 :1, 63:4, 67: 14, 68 : 16, 68 : 17 , 88:22, 92 :2, 98: 15, 105 : 15, 146:20 , 170 : 16 **lifestyle** [1] - 136 : 12 **lifted** [1] - 170 : 16 **Light** [4] - 64 :23 , 66:6, 66:20 , 69: 11 **likelihood** [1] - 122 : 11 **likely** [6] - 28: 11 , 28: 14, 40 :6, 65: 13, 89:2, 93: 14 **limestone** [1] - 85: 20 **limit** [9] - 80:20, 80:24, 80 :25, 81 :8, 81 :9, 93: 18 , 95:8, 107 :9 **limits** [3] - 46 :3, 46:6, 46:8 **line** [ 16] - 34 : 12 , 34:23, 43 :20, 44 :5, 94:24, 102 :6, 102 : 10 , 102 : 14 , 116: 10 , 116 : 12 , 116: 13 , 123 : 18 , 125:1, 125:4, 125 :6**lines** [1] - 34 : 20 **links** [1] - 71 : 19 **Lisa** [2] - 56 : 11 , 56: 18 **LISA** [3] - 4: 16 , 56: 12, 56 : 18 **list** [2] - 123 : 15, 153 :2 **listening** [1] - 75:1 **lists** [1] - 106 : 13 **litigate** [1] - 157:22 **litigation** [1] - 36 :25 **live** [ 13] - 68 :6, 130 : 13 , 131 : 18 , 133 :1, 134 : 25, 135 : 17 , 136: 11 , 136 : 14 , 141 : 25, 143 :4, 166 : 22 **lived** [3] - 56 : 20 , 70: 17, 135 :1 **lives** [1] - 57 : 21 **living** [2] - 61 : 23 , 146 : 21 **load** [8] - 83: 17, 83: 18, 84 : 19, 89 :9, 89: 10, 90 :6, 90:7, 90:9 **loads** [1] - 99 :3 **local** [3] - 130 :25, 131 :2, 143 : 19 **localized** [1] - 66:3 **locally** [1] - 146 :5 **located** [2] - 130:21 , 138 : 15 **logical** [1] - 51 : 11 **long -** **term** [9] - 23: 12, 24 :7, 25:20, 25: 21 , 66 : 24, 88 : 17 , 88: 19, 141 : 24 , 145:3 **look** [37] - 13 :7, 34 :8, 34: 21 , 34 : 22, 44 :4, 63: 25, 71 :1, 73:8, 84:8, 88:8, 88 : 11 , 88: 17, 91 : 23, 92 :8, 92 :9, 92 : 14 , 100 :1, 105 : 20 , 107: 11 , 112 : 16 , 112 : 21 , 112 : 22 , 114:6, 123:2, 131 :5, 132 :1, 135 : 10 , 144 :3, 148 : 14 , 149:5, 149 : 11 , 149: 18 , 160 : 12 , 160: 19 , 166 :6 **looked** [ 13] - 24:1, 25: 10, 38 : 10, 44 :9, 46:7, 46: 12 , 100 :4, 109 :7, 111 :4, 111 :6, 111 :8, 112 : 19 , 116: 17 **looking** [20] - 25: 18, 34:3, 37: 24 , 42 : 14, 46:1, 56: 24 , 73:7, 73: 13, 90 : 10, 90 :20 , 90:22, 110 : 12 , 113:3, 123 : 11 , 123: 17 , 125 :7, 125 : 15, 125 : 17 , 135:6, 170:21 **looks** [4] - 62 :3, 89: 15, 124 :3, 169 : 17 **Los** [4] - 51 :2, 56 :21 , 56:25, 57 :5 **lose** [3] - 118 : 11 , 169 :22 , 169:25 **lost** [1] - 154:23 **loud** [1] - 61 :20 **LOUIS** [1] - 3:21 **love** [5] - 54:22, 58:21 , 141 :25, 150 :22 , 171 :8 **low** [9] - 83:20, 93:25, 95 :4, 95:7, 117 :9, 118 :22 , 119 :25, 142 :23 , 142 :25 **low -** **income** [2] - 142 :23 , 142 :25 **lower** [6] - 49: 14, 72 :23, 132 :23 , 149:8, 149 :9, 152 :7 **lrose @** **montand .**  **com** [1] - 3:24 **Lucas** [ 15] - 9:9, 79:8, 101 : 10, 101 :24 , 102 :22 , 103:1, 103:3, 103 :6, 104 :21 , 105:2, 106 : 19 , 107:20 , 110 :2, 123 :23 , 127: 12 **LUCAS** [29] - 5: 13, 81 :22, 101 : 14 , 102 :25, 103:4, 103 : 10 , 103: 16 , 107 :23 , 110: 19 , 113 :1, 113 :6, 113 : 11 , 113 : 17 , 113:24 , 114 :2, 114 : 18 , 115 :21 , 119: 10 , 120 : 10 , 120: 13 , 121 :5, 121 : 11 , 122 :2, 122 : 14 , 122 :24 , 123 :7, 124 :5, 124 :20 , 125 : 14 **Lunas** [1] - 51 :2 **lunch** [1] - 139 : 16 **lung** [1] - 143 : 17 **lung -** **related** [1] - 143 : 17 

## M

**M-A-D-D-E-N** [1] - 58: 15 **M-C- capital**  **-C-A-L L-A-N**  [1] - 141 :23 **M-C- capital**  **-C-L-U R-E**  [1] - 147: 11 **machine** [1] - 173 : 10 **madam** [1] - 166 : 14 **Madam** [27] - 11 : 16, 11 :24, 12 : 13, 14 :21 , 14:23, 29 : 13, 32 :8, 45:2, 50:23 , 54:3, 76:24, 76 :25, 87 :6, 97: 14, 128 : 15, 129 : 15, 138: 12 , 147 : 14 , 160: 17 , 161 : 13 , 163: 12 , 165 : 12 , 167:22 , 168 :1, 169 : 11 , 171 :21 , 171 :22 **Madden** [3] - 58 :7, 58: 14, 61 :5 **MADDEN** [4] - 4: 18, 58:8, 58: 14 , 58: 17 **Magdalenas** [1] - 58:20 **magnificent** [1] - 142 :3 **mail** [2] - 12 :22, 13 :5 **main** [2] - 107 :3, 117 :20 **maintenance** [1] - 85:22 **major** [2] - 62 :20 , 143 :25 **majority** [4] - 48 :22 , 49:22, 72 :20, 72 :21 **makeup** [1] - 84 :6 **Management** [1] - 98:5 **manager** [5] - 3:9, 104 :20 , 104:21 , 108 :5, 108 : 10 **manager 's**  [2] - 25:25, 26 :1 **managers** [3] - 16 :5, 17:24, 26 : 15 **manages** [1] - 96:25 **mandate** [1] - 158: 13 **mandated** [2] - 51 :25, 155 :9 **mandatory** [1] - 17 :4 **manner** [1] - 112 : 15 **Manual** [4] - 28 :6, 28: 10, 28 : 14, 43 :7 **manual** [1] - 43 :7 **manufacturing** [1] - 94: 15 **map** [5] - 63: 15, 63: 17, 71 :5, 71 :6 **March** [4] - 8:8, 8: 11 , 10: 12, 169 :5 **marked** [5] - 18:2, 26:2, 82 : 16 , 97:5, 103 :8 **market** [1] - 145 : 17 **marketing** [1] - 98 :7 **Marlene** [3] - 61 :7, 61 : 14, 71 :4 **MARLENE** [3] - 4:20, 61 :8, 61 : 14 **Marquette** [1] - 3:5 **Mary** [4] - 7: 15, 15 :5, 19: 19, 23 :22 **MARY** [2] - 4:4, 18: 10 **mass** [1] - 34 :23 **massive** [1] - 52 :25 **master** [1] - 98:3 **match** [1] - 75:6 **material** [4] - 16 :25, 51 :6, 85: 19 , 131 :3 **materials** [3] - 137:8, 162 :1, 172 :7 **math** [1] - 113:4 **mathematical** [1] - 51 :7 **mathematician** [1] - 143 :9 **MATTER** [1] - 1:4 **matter** [ 14] - 1: 17 , 10:7, 17: 11 , 23:22, 24: 17, 26 :22, 42 :25, 55:20, 66 :24, 86 :8, 86: 15, 123 : 16 , 140:2, 152 : 16 **matters** [4] - 77 :6, 77: 15, 77 : 16, 83 :1 **maximize** [1] - 145 : 19 **maximum** [2] - 110 :7, 113 : 12 **MC** [8] - 6:3, 6:7, 141 : 10 , 141 : 16 , 141 :22 , 147:4, 147 : 10 , 147: 13 **McCallan** [4] - 141 :3, 141 :9, 141 :22 , 145:6 **McClure** [6] - 141 :4, 147 :3, 147 : 10 , 147 : 11 , 147: 15, 149 :25 **McNiel** [1] - 69 :9 **mean** [7] - 36 : 18, 38:3, 51 : 19 , 51 :21 , 63:23, 95 :1, 116 :23 **meaningful** [1] - 126 :23 **means** [4] - 15 :23 , 117 :21 , 153: 13 , 165 : 15 **measure** [1] - 158 : 14 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 15

**measured** [2] - 51 : 16, 51 : 17 **measures** [1] - 77 :20 **mechanical** [3] - 83:5, 104 :3, 104 :5 **mechanism** [1] - 17:1 **meet** [ 13] - 23 :9, 23: 12, 23 : 13, 25 :6, 77: 12, 77 : 18, 81 : 10 , 86:23, 88 :4, 93: 18, 107 :8, 118 :6, 168 :24 **meeting** [4] - 46 :7, 65:23, 128 :20 , 130: 15 **megawatts** [1] - 90 :6 **member** [5] - 66:4, 66:5, 147 :22, 150 : 13 , 150 : 14 **Member** [4] - 43 : 15, 44: 14, 123 :23 , 160: 17 **members** [ 19] - 11 :25, 14 :23, 32 : 13 , 49:21 , 49 :25, 50 :24 , 56: 19, 66 : 16, 74 :6, 75:1, 76:25, 86: 19, 100 :20 , 110:1, 126 : 13 , 138: 12 , 144 :23 , 147: 14 , 171 :22 **Mennonite** [1] - 69: 14 **mention** [2] - 45 : 19 , 60:2 **mentioned** [3] - 32 : 19, 93 :25, 171 :2 **mentions** [1] - 45 :20 **merchant** [2] - 90 :8, 90:9 **mercury** [3] - 59: 12, 59: 13, 62 : 11 **mercy** [2] - 61 :23, 148 : 19 **merits** [1] - 168: 11 **met** [3] - 81 :1, 152 :4, 157 : 17 **meteorological** [4] - 65: 15, 108 :20 , 111 : 14 , 111 : 15 **method** [1] - 131 : 15 **Methodists** [1] - 69: 14 **methodologies** [3] - 28:3, 108 : 19, 108 :24 **methodology** [2] - 106 :20 , 108:25 **metric** [1] - 111 :24 **Mexicans** [1] - 56 :6 **MEXICO** [6] - 1:1, 7:3, 8:3, 8:22 , 9:3, 173 :1**Mexico** [ 123] - 1: 19 ,

2:3, 2:5, 2:6, 2: 13, 2: 16 , 2: 18 , 2:20 , 3:2, 3:6, 3: 11 , 3: 17, 3:23 , 8: 14 , 8: 19 , 8:25, 9:6, 9: 10 , 12 :3, 16 : 18 , 17:3, 17: 13 , 19:21 , 20:9, 21 : 11 , 21 :24, 23:6, 24:2, 24 :5, 25: 10, 26 : 13, 26 :23 , 27:3, 27:5, 27 : 14 , 27: 18, 28 : 21 , 28 :22 , 29:9, 29: 10 , 34:5, 36:4, 36: 14 , 39:24, 41 : 13, 48 : 14, 48 : 19 , 49:1, 51 :3, 54 : 16 , 55: 11 , 56 :1, 61 :24, 62 : 18, 64 : 22, 65 :1, 66:5, 67:3, 68 :22 , 69:9, 69: 10 , 70:9, 70: 22, 70 : 25, 74 :6, 74: 25, 75 :3, 75:6, 75: 18, 76 : 22, 77 :2, 78:4, 78: 17 , 78: 18, 82 : 15, 83 : 22, 86 :1, 90:8, 96: 22 , 98:2, 98:5, 98: 23 , 130 : 12 , 130 : 14 , 131 :6, 131 :8, 131 : 13 , 131 : 21 , 132 :1, 133 :3, 134 :1, 135 :2, 135 : 12 , 135 : 15, 135: 25, 136 :2, 136 : 20 , 137 : 19 , 137: 23 , 141 : 24 , 142 : 25, 143 : 14 , 144:6, 144 : 21 , 145: 22 , 146 :6, 146 : 16 , 148:8, 150 : 17 , 150: 19 , 150 : 22 , 151 :7, 153:4, 153 : 11 , 153: 12 , 155 :1, 158 : 10 , 158 : 14 , 158: 15, 159 : 18 , 170: 20 **Mexico 's**  [4] - 21 :7, 75: 17, 145 : 17 , 146: 12 **MI CHAEL**  [1] - 2:8 **Mi chael**  [1] - 150 :20 **Mi chigan**  [1] - 151 :4 **mid** [1] - 20 : 16 **middle** [2] - 71 : 14 , 121 :8 **might** [12] - 40 : 12 , 41 :6, 46:8, 55 :3, 59 :6, 63:2, 65: 19 , 67: 10, 83: 18, 89 :7, 89:25, 102 : 24 **mike** [1] - 102 :24 **miles** [2] - 84 : 16 , 84: 18 **milestones** [4] - 22 :5, 22 :8, 22 : 15, 22 : 17 **Mi ller**  [6] - 12 :1, 74: 13, 74 : 14, 74 : 16 , 74:24, 75 :24 **MI LLER**  [5] - 3:4, 5:3, 74 : 17 , 74 : 18 , 74:24 **million** [29] - 49 :5, 52 :3, 53:4, 57 :2, 78 :9, 83:23, 85 : 15, 85 : 16 , 85: 17, 85 : 18, 85 :21 , 86:5, 88:1, 91 :5, 93: 19, 95 :9, 95: 10, 95: 14, 111 :21 , 114 :23 , 114:24 , 137 :4, 137 :5, 137 :8, 137 :9, 137 : 10 , 148 :22 , 154:23 **millions** [4] - 52 :3, 52 : 11 , 131 :1, 137 :1 **mind** [6] - 47: 10, 48:23, 50 :5, 117 :6, 126 :21 , 127:4 **mine** [1] - 53:22 **Mi ne**  [1] - 136 :24 **mined** [1] - 57 :20 **mineral** [1] - 135 :23 **miners** [1] - 130 :23 **minimizing** [1] - 50 :1 **minimum** [1] - 41 :3 **mining** [3] - 57 : 19 , 63:7, 66: 13 **minor** [1] - 102 :4 **minute** [1] - 47 : 19 **minutes** [7] - 47 :20 , 76: 13, 128 :22 , 129:9, 140 : 12 , 140: 16 , 141 : 15 **Mi ssouri**  [1] - 104:3 **misunderstand** [1] - 58:25 **Mi tten**  [1] - 135 :2 **mixing** [1] - 93 :21 **model** [9] - 39 : 15, 39: 19, 40 :4, 108 : 19 , 111 : 12 , 111 :21 , 112 : 18 , 122 :22 , 126 :1 **modeled** [4] - 111 : 16 , 112 :23 , 114 :9 **modeling** [27] - 20: 16, 20 :20, 35 : 15, 40:22, 41 :1, 81 :4, 81 :6, 105 :3, 106 : 17 , 106 :20 , 108:3, 108:8, 108 : 13 , 108: 17 , 108 : 19 , 109:6, 109:7, 110 :20 , 111 :3, 122 :22 , 122 :24 , 122 :25, 123:24 , 124 :2, 124 :5, 125 :25 **Modeling** [1] - 20: 19 **models** [1] - 40 : 12 **modern** [1] - 170: 15 **modification** [1] - 86: 11 **modifications** [1] - 91 : 15 **modified** [2] - 10 : 11 , 10: 13 **modify** [1] - 117 : 14 **modular** [1] - 90: 16 **Mojave** [1] - 60 : 17 **moment** [3] - 10 :8, 62 : 13, 100 : 16 **money** [ 10] - 52 :6, 57:4, 57:9, 57 : 16 , 59: 16, 62 :4, 62 :25, 68:25, 116 : 15 **monitoring** [2] - 23: 13, 34 : 18 **MONTGOMERY** [1] - 3:21 **month** [8] - 52 :9, 58:1, 58:2, 98 : 17 , 98:22, 148 : 10 , 150: 17 **monuments** [1] - 144 :9 **moral** [6] - 62 :5, 65:2, 67:20 , 68:20, 69:4, 154 :25 **morals** [1] - 154 :21 **morning** [16] - 10 :1, 11 : 16, 12 : 13, 14 :22 , 14:23, 29 : 18, 30 :23 , 48: 12, 51 :20, 61 : 18 , 64: 18, 76 :7, 99: 19, 99:21 , 128 :3, 171 :24 **MORROW** [1] - 2:9 **most** [8] - 19 : 10 , 34:9, 62 :24 , 64:2, 66:9, 66: 14 , 66: 15, 130 :20 **mostly** [1] - 117:5 **Mountain** [1] - 57 :20 **mountain** [1] - 68 :5 **move** [7] - 18:6, 29: 15, 63 :2, 69:2, 83:7, 97: 15, 103 : 17 **moved** [3] - 58 : 17, 75: 18, 108 :4 **moving** [1] - 110 : 13 **MR** [261 ] - 11 : 16 , 11 :24, 12 :6, 12 : 13, 14:21 , 18 : 14, 18 : 15, 18: 18, 18 :21 , 18 :25, 19:3, 19:7, 19 : 12 , 19: 17, 19 :20, 19 :23 , 20:2, 20:6, 20 : 11 , 20:23, 21 :2, 24: 15, 25:23, 26 :8, 26: 19, 27:21 , 28 :24, 29 : 12 , 29:23, 29 :24, 30 :9, 30: 14, 30 : 17, 30 :22 , 30:23, 31 :9, 31 : 14, 31 : 18, 31 :23, 32 :3, 32 :8, 32 : 17 , 33:8, 33: 11 , 33 : 15, 33 : 19 , 33:25, 34 :3, 34: 12, 34: 14, 34 : 16, 34 : 19 , 35:9, 35: 13 , 35: 18, 36:6, 36:9, 36 :21 , 36:23, 37 :1, 37:5, 37:6, 37:8, 37 : 11 , 37: 13, 37 :22, 38 :7, 38: 10, 38 : 14, 38 :23 , 39:2, 39:8, 39 : 12 , 39: 18, 40 : 19, 40 :24 , 40:25, 41 :9, 41 : 11 , 41 : 17, 41 :22, 41 :25, 42 :9, 42 : 17 , 42 :20, 43:2, 43:4, 43 :9, 43: 19, 43 :22, 44 :3, 44:6, 44:8, 45 :2, 45 :5, 45: 12, 45 : 16, 45 : 18 , 45:22, 46 : 13, 50 :20 , 50:23, 53 :24, 58 : 14 , 58: 17, 69 :25, 70 :3, 76:24, 81 : 18, 81 :25, 82 :5, 83:7, 83 : 12 , 87:6, 87: 11 , 87: 13, 87: 15, 87 : 17, 87 :25, 88:7, 88: 17 , 88:25, 89:2, 89:4, 89 :22 , 90:5, 91 :2, 91 :4, 91 :7, 91 : 10, 91 : 12, 91 : 18 , 91 :21 , 92 :6, 92 :9, 92 : 14, 92 :22, 92 :25, 93:1, 93:3, 93 :4, 93: 15, 93 : 17, 93 :23 , 93:24, 94 :3, 94:8, 94: 12, 94 :23, 95 :3, 95: 15, 95 : 18, 95 :24 , 95:25, 96 :6, 96: 12, 96: 13, 96 : 15, 97 : 14 , 97:21 , 99 :4, 99:9, 99: 11 , 99 : 13, 99 : 15, 99: 18, 100 :25, 101 :4, 101 :6, 101 :9, 101 : 12 , 101 : 17 , 101 :23 , 102 :2, 102 : 18 , 102 :22 , 102 :25, 103 :2, 103 :4, 103 :6, 103 : 10 , 103: 11 , 103 : 16 , 103: 17 , 103 :23 , 104: 14 , 107 :20 , 107:23 , 109 : 14 , 109: 18 , 109 :20 , 109:22 , 109 :24 , 110: 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 16

113 :1, 113 :6, 113 : 11 , 113 : 17 , 113:24 , 114 :2, 114 : 18 , 115 :21 , 116:22 , 118 :20 , 119: 10 , 119 : 17 , 119:21 , 120 : 10 , 120: 13 , 120 :20 , 121 :5, 121 : 11 , 121 : 18 , 122 :2, 122 : 14 , 122 :21 , 122 :24 , 123 :4, 123 :7, 123 :9, 123 :22 , 124:5, 124 : 17 , 124:20 , 125 : 12 , 125: 14 , 125 :21 , 126:5, 127 : 14 , 127: 19 , 127 :23 , 128: 15, 128 :25, 129:6, 129 : 15, 129:25, 130 :9, 132 : 18 , 134 : 12 , 134: 19 , 138 :9, 138 : 12 , 145 : 14 , 145: 16 , 152 : 16 , 160: 16 , 161 : 13 , 163: 12 , 164 :2, 164 :9, 165 : 11 , 166 : 13 , 167:22 , 168 :1, 169 : 11 , 170:8, 170 : 10 , 170: 13 , 171 :1, 171 : 17 , 171 : 21 **MS** [266] - 10 :1, 11 :22, 12 :4, 12 : 10, 12 : 16, 14 : 14, 14 : 17 , 14: 18, 14 : 19, 18 :8, 18: 17, 18 : 19, 18 :23 , 19:2, 19:5, 19 :9, 19: 15, 19 : 19, 19 :21 , 19:25, 20 :4, 20:8, 20: 13, 20 :25, 21 :6, 24: 19, 26 :7, 26: 11 , 26:23, 27 :24, 29 :2, 29: 19, 29 :25, 30 :4, 30: 11 , 30 : 15, 30 :20 , 31 :8, 31 : 13 , 31 : 17, 31 :21 , 32 :2, 32 :4, 32 : 10, 33 :2, 33:9, 33: 12, 33 : 16, 33 :20 , 34:2, 34:6, 34 : 13 , 34: 15, 34 : 17, 34 :21 , 35:1, 35:2, 35 : 10 , 35: 14, 35 :21 , 35 :23 , 36:8, 36:20 , 36:22, 36:24, 37 :4, 37:7, 37:9, 37: 12 , 37: 14, 37: 17, 37 : 19, 38 :5, 38:8, 38: 13 , 38:21 , 38:24, 39 :3, 39: 11 , 39: 17, 39 :22, 40 : 16 , 40:20, 41 :5, 41 : 10, 41 : 14, 41 : 18, 41 :23 ,41 : 24, 42 :5, 42 : 12,

42 : 13, 42 : 15, 42 : 18 , 42 : 22, 43 :3, 43:6, 43: 15, 43 : 20, 43 :24 , 44:4, 44:7, 44 : 14 , 44: 25, 45 : 11 , 45 : 15, 45: 17, 45 : 20, 46 :4, 46: 15, 46 : 22, 46 :25, 47: 23, 47 : 25, 48 :2, 48:9, 48: 12 , 50:9, 53: 23, 54 :1, 54:3, 54: 12, 54 : 15, 56 : 10 , 56: 18, 58 :6, 61 :5, 61 : 14, 61 : 17, 64 :7, 64: 15, 64 : 18, 69 : 17 , 74: 12, 74 : 15, 74 : 16 , 74: 17, 74 : 24, 75 :24 , 76: 11 , 76 : 12, 76 : 16 , 81 : 15, 81 : 24, 83 :9, 87:9, 87: 12 , 87: 14, 87: 16, 87 : 18, 91 :3, 95: 16, 95 : 20, 96 :2, 96:3, 96:4, 96 : 14 , 97: 17, 99 :7, 99: 10, 99: 12, 99 : 14, 100 : 18 , 101 :2, 101 :5, 101 :8, 101 : 11 , 101 : 13 , 101 : 21 , 102 :1, 102 :4, 102 : 21 , 103: 20 , 104 :1, 104 : 19 , 109 : 16 , 109: 19 , 109 : 21 , 109: 23 , 109 : 25, 110:6, 112 : 24 , 113:2, 113:8, 113 : 16 , 113: 19 , 114 :1, 114 : 12 , 114 : 21 , 115:3, 115:6, 115 : 22 , 116: 19 , 116 : 20 , 116: 21 , 117 :2, 119 :3, 119 : 11 , 119 : 20 , 120:2, 120 : 12 , 120: 21 , 121 : 10 , 121 : 19 , 122 : 10 , 122 : 13 , 123 : 12 , 123: 20 , 125 : 22 , 126:3, 126:7, 126 :8, 127 :7, 127 : 16 , 127 : 21 , 127: 24 , 128 : 24 , 129:3, 129 : 13 , 129: 17 , 132 :8, 134 :8, 138 :1, 139 : 12 , 139: 17 , 139 : 18 , 139: 19 , 139 : 21 , 140:5, 140:6, 140 :7, 140 :9, 140 : 10 , 140 : 14 , 140: 15, 140 : 19 , 141 : 10 , 141 : 11 , 141 : 22 , 145 :6, 147 :2, 147 : 10 , 147 : 13 , 149: 25, 150 :2, 150 : 10 , 150 : 12 , 152 : 10 , 159 :9, 159 : 12 , 162 :20 , 163:25, 164 :3, 165 :9, 166 :9, 167 :20 , 167:25, 168 :20 , 169:21 , 170 :9, 170 : 11 , 171 : 18 , 171 :23 , 172 :2, 172 :5, 172 :6 **MSR** [1] - 3:20 **multi** [1] - 88:1 **multi -** **million** [1] - 88:1 **mush** [1] - 51 : 11 **must** [8] - 23 :9, 52 :25, 62 : 13, 63 :3, 63:4, 64:1, 68 : 12 , 76:6 

## N

**N- 4064**  [1] - 2: 19 **N-E-V-I-L-L-E** [1] - 130 : 10 **name** [44] - 10 :2, 11 : 18, 12 :1, 14:25, 18: 16, 19 : 18, 19 : 19 , 47:9, 48:8, 48 : 13 , 50: 19, 54 : 11 , 56 : 17 , 58: 13, 61 : 13, 64 : 14 , 64:21 , 69 :24, 70 :8, 74:23, 74 :24, 77 :1, 82 :6, 82 :8, 96 : 17 , 96: 18, 101 : 19 , 101 :21 , 102 :23 , 103 :1, 129 :25, 130:8, 130 :9, 132 : 17 , 134 : 18 , 134:20 , 138 :8, 138 :9, 138 : 14 , 141 :21 , 145: 13 , 147 :9, 150 :2, 150 :9 **named** [1] - 36 :24 **names** [1] - 75 :25 **narrative** [1] - 13 : 18 **narrow** [1] - 55 :7 **NATE** [3] - 5:22 , 138 :3, 138 : 10 **Nate** [2] - 138:9, 138 : 14 **nation** [1] - 50:7 **Nation** [3] - 135 : 15, 136 :5, 137 : 14 **nation 's**  [1] - 62 :7 **National** [8] - 8: 17 , 12 :8, 24:1, 24 :20 , 25:3, 118 :6, 118 : 14 , 158 :24 **national** [6] - 51 : 15, 75: 17, 100 : 13 , 144:9, 144 : 17 **nations** [1] - 68 :2 **Native** [5] - 85 :9, 85: 11 , 135 : 16 , 136 :23 , 136:25 **natural** [9] - 23: 11 , 25:6, 70:23 , 84:21 , 85:1, 124 :22, 125 : 11 , 135 :23 **Natural** [3] - 3: 14 , 130 : 14 , 153:3 **nature** [4] - 128: 13, 163 : 17 , 163:23 , 165 :3 **Navajo** [ 10] - 37 :3, 71 :7, 71 :8, 133: 16, 134 :1, 135 : 15, 135 : 17 , 136:5, 137 : 14 , 153:3 **Navajo -** **designated** [1] - 71 :8 **Navajos** [2] - 136:8, 136 :24 **near** [1] - 135:2 **nearby** [1] - 135 :21 **nearly** [1] - 130 :23 **necessarily** [3] - 74:2, 126 :9, 168 :8 **necessary** [1] - 73 :5 **need** [ 10] - 46 :22 , 60: 11 , 60 :25, 63 : 12 , 65:7, 68: 16 , 73: 17, 85: 19, 89 :9, 133 :21 **needed** [1] - 85 :20 **needs** [4] - 63 : 10 , 73: 19, 124 : 18 **negative** [1] - 135:9 **negatively** [1] - 147 :24 **negotiate** [1] - 22 :7 **neighbor** [2] - 36: 15, 170 : 19 **neighbors** [1] - 133 : 10 **never** [2] - 16 :8, 38: 11 **Neville** [2] - 130:9, 132 :21 **NEVILLE** [4] - 5: 16, 129 :25, 130:3, 130:9 **new** [ 16] - 42 :3, 65: 15, 65 : 16, 90 : 14 , 91 : 13, 92 : 18, 92 :20 , 106 : 19 , 106:20 , 116 :2, 117 :3, 117 :8, 122 : 19 , 124: 13 , 144 :23 **NEW** [6] - 1:1, 7:3, 8:3, 8:22, 9:3, 173:1 **New** [ 128] - 1: 19 , 2:3, 2:5, 2:6, 2: 13 , 2: 16 , 2: 18 , 2:20 , 3:2, 3:6, 3: 11 , 3: 17 , 3:23 , 8: 14, 8: 19 , 8:25, 9:6, 9: 10 , 12 :3, 16: 18 , 17:3, 17: 13, 19 :21 , 20 :9, 21 :7, 21 : 11 , 21 :24, 23:5, 24:2, 24 :5, 25: 10, 26 : 13, 26 :23 , 27:3, 27:5, 27 : 14 , 27: 18, 28 :21 , 28 :22 , 29:9, 29: 10 , 34:5, 36: 14, 39 :24, 41 : 13 , 48: 14, 48 : 19, 49 :1, 51 :2, 54: 16 , 55: 11 , 56:1, 56:6, 61 :24 , 62 : 17, 64 :22, 65 :1, 66:5, 67:3, 68 :22 , 69:9, 69: 10 , 70:9, 70:22, 70 :25, 74 :6, 74:25, 75 :3, 75:6, 75: 17, 75 : 18, 76 :22 , 77:2, 78:4, 78 : 17 , 78: 18, 82 : 15, 83 :22 , 86:1, 90:8, 96 :21 , 98:2, 98:5, 98 :23 , 130 : 12 , 130: 13 , 131 :5, 131 :8, 131 : 13 , 131 :21 , 132 :1, 133:3, 134 :1, 135 :1, 135 : 12 , 135 : 14 , 135:24 , 136 :2, 136 :20 , 137 : 19 , 137:23 , 141 :24 , 142 :25, 143 : 13 , 144:6, 144 :21 , 145: 17 , 145 :22 , 146:6, 146 : 11 , 146: 16 , 148 :8, 150 : 17 , 150 : 19 , 150:22 , 151 :4, 151 :7, 153 :4, 153 : 11 , 153: 12 , 155 :1, 158 : 10 , 158 : 13 , 158: 15, 159 : 18 **newfound** [1] - 56 :7 **next** [10] - 13 :21 , 14: 10, 14 : 11 , 34 :21 , 77:6, 88: 15, 110 : 13 , 127 :5, 128 :22 , 146: 15 **NFPA** [1] - 118 :6 **night** [1] - 71 : 14 **nitrogen** [12] - 17 : 11 , 23:21 , 55 : 17, 72 :3, 75:4, 86: 12 , 154 :1, 155 : 19 , 155:21 , 155 :22 , 156:3, 156:5 **nitrous** [1] - 55 : 17 **NMAC** [2] - 7:24, 23:1 **NMED** [31 ] - 7: 12 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 17

8:6, 8: 10, 16 :1, 16: 16, 17: 17, 18 :3, 28: 18, 29:20, 30 :2, 37:25, 41 :2, 53:3, 53 :7, 67 :4, 77: 11 , 77 :20, 77 :25, 78: 14, 78 :22, 79 :20 , 80: 10, 106 : 13 , 106 :23 , 108:25, 109 :9, 124 :6, 124 : 15, 125 :24 , 126:2, 138: 17 **NMED 's**  [4] - 27: 22, 27:25, 139 : 10 , 166: 15 **NMIPL** [2] - 66:22 , 67:4 **NMPRC** [1] - 96 :25 **NMUSA** [1] - 49 :2 **no -** **brainer** [1] - 152 :6 **NO EL**  [1] - 74: 15 **Noel** [1] - 74: 15 **NO I**  [1] - 25 :3 **non** [2] - 105: 11 , 125 :9 **non -** **BART** [1] - 125 :9 **nonair** [1] - 105: 11 **noncatalytic** [6] - 72 :4, 78:21 , 113 :22 , 118 :23 , 119:24 , 155 :4 **none** [5] - 46: 18, 83: 10, 97 : 18, 103 :21 , 160 :2 **nonexistent** [1] - 52 : 14 **nontechnical** [3] - 10:21 , 10 :22, 169 : 16 **norm** [1] - 65 : 13 **NO RMA**  [2] - 6:3, 141 : 16 **Norma** [2] - 141 :3, 141 :22 **normal** [1] - 65: 16 **normally** [2] - 91 : 18 , 92 :8 **north** [2] - 84: 18, 133 : 14 **Northern** [1] - 153 : 12 **Northwest** [2] - 3:5, 75:6 **Northwestern** [1] - 130 : 12 **NO TARY**  [1] - 173: 19 **note** [13] - 66 : 18, 71 :7, 71 :21 , 77: 10, 79: 19, 81 :4, 98:25, 112 : 14 , 128: 18 , 148 :3, 152 : 17 , 163 :22 , 166: 16 **noted** [8] - 71 : 10 , 71 :22, 73 :1, 73:6,108 : 12 , 109:3,

157 : 17 , 169: 18 **notes** [1] - 71 :23 **nothing** [3] - 59: 14, 162 : 17 , 171 : 23 **notice** [ 13] - 19 : 13 , 20: 24, 22 : 23, 23 :3, 29: 16, 29 : 17, 40 :7, 127 : 25, 160: 20 , 161 : 12 , 165:4, 165 : 22 , 166: 21 **noticeable** [1] - 52 :6 **noticed** [4] - 36 : 13 , 58:1, 70: 20 , 71 :8 **notices** [1] - 7:21 **noting** [1] - 73:2 **notwithstanding** [1]

- 55 :2 **NO x**  [39] - 42 : 24, 49: 14, 49 : 15, 71 :20 , 80: 20, 80 : 24, 80 :25, 86: 10, 86 : 11 , 86 : 17 , 87:2, 91 : 15, 92 :23, 92 : 25, 93 :3, 93:4, 93: 22, 93 : 25, 94 :1, 94:6, 94: 25, 95:4, 95:7, 102 :7, 104 :8, 104 :9, 107 : 16 , 111 : 21 , 115: 10 , 116 : 25, 118: 22 , 119 : 25, 121 :2, 121 :7, 121 :8, 142 :5, 155 :23 **NRDC** [2] - 30 :25, 99: 22 **nuclear** [ 10] - 57 :3, 84: 19, 89 :8, 89: 11 , 89: 24, 90 :2, 90: 15, 90: 16, 91 :1, 131 : 11 **Nuclear** [1] - 90 :6 **Number** [2] - 48 : 17 , 173 : 20 **number** [14] - 10 :7, 20: 19, 46 : 11 , 52 : 18 , 83:3, 88:2, 94 : 16 , 106 : 14 , 112 :8, 117 : 11 , 124:3, 153 : 10 , 159: 23 , 159 : 24 **numbers** [4] - 72 :22, 73:3, 81 :6, 135: 11 **numerous** [3] - 23: 15, 69 : 13, 70 : 15 

## O

**O&M** [1] - 98 : 15 **OA QPS**  [1] - 28 :6 **oath** [7] - 10 : 16 , 47: 16, 82 : 21 , 97 : 11 , 102 :20 , 129:22 , 141 : 12 **object** [1] - 161 :24 **objection** [4] - 29 :23 , 29:24, 163 : 19 , 164: 10 **objections** [4] - 29:20, 83 :9, 97: 17, 103 :20 **objective** [1] - 55:8 **obligations** [1] - 158 : 16 **obscene** [1] - 52 :5 **obviously** [3] - 72 : 19, 135 : 15, 164:25 **Occupational** [1] - 19:25 **occur** [1] - 24 :3 **occurred** [2] - 80 :9, 80: 16 **October** [1] - 21 :20 **OF** [7] - 1:1, 1:4, 1: 14 , 8:22 , 9:3, 173 :1, 173 :3 **offer** [7] - 10:21 , 13:9, 14:7, 76 :3, 139 :25, 163:3, 165:20 **offered** [1] - 161 :22 **offering** [1] - 128: 12 **office** [2] - 11 :3, 151 :22 **Office** [7] - 2: 12 , 2: 13 , 2: 17 , 2: 18 , 3:22, 157 :21 , 157:22 **officer** [1] - 173:6 **Officer** [22] - 2:2, 10:2, 10: 14 , 11 : 17, 11 :24, 12 : 14, 14 : 13 , 14:22, 15 :2, 29: 13, 32 :9, 45:3, 97 : 15, 128 : 15, 129: 15, 163 : 12 , 165: 12 , 166 : 14 , 167:22 , 168 :2, 169 : 11 , 171 :22 **offices** [2] - 11 :4, 151 : 18 **official** [1] - 119: 13 **offshore** [1] - 36 :4 **often** [4] - 58 :22 , 62 :22, 66 : 15, 143 : 19 **oil** [4] - 25 : 13 , 135 :23 , 143:21 , 144 :5 **Old** [1] - 1: 19 **older** [1] - 49 :23 **ominous** [1] - 61 : 19 **once** [2] - 38: 18, 39:4 **one** [74] - 16 : 10 , 16: 17, 17 :4, 21 :25, 25:7, 25:9, 36 : 11 , 40: 15, 40 :25, 42 :20 , 50:25, 51 : 10, 51 : 17 , 51 :23, 53 :4, 58: 18, 62 :6, 66:9, 68 :24 , 71 :1, 71 :7, 72 :8, 87:25, 88 :8, 90:22, 93: 17, 93 :24, 100 : 16 , 102 :6, 106 : 15, 106 : 17 , 107:2, 112 :8, 115 :6, 117 : 10 , 118 :25, 119:5, 119:8, 120 :4, 121 :20 , 121 :21 , 121 :22 , 121 :24 , 123:22 , 125 :22 , 126:8, 127 :22 , 128:5, 131 :8, 131 :9, 131 :24 , 133:7, 133 :25, 139:24 , 143 :3, 144 : 12 , 148 : 11 , 150: 17 , 151 :2, 151 :25, 152 :1, 152 :7, 153 : 10 , 157:5, 157 :7, 157 : 12 , 166 : 18 , 168:2, 170 : 10 , 170: 13 **one 's**  [1] - 51 :8 **one -** **fourth** [1] - 53 :4 **one -** **half** [2] - 131 :8, 131 :9 **ones** [2] - 106 :2, 111 :1 **ongoing** [2] - 85 :23 , 108 : 11 **Open** [1] - 5:5 **opening** [2] - 77 :4, 122 : 19 **openly** [1] - 52 : 19 **operate** [2] - 95: 10, 95: 14 **operating** [2] - 48:21 , 112 :23 **operation** [2] - 112 :20 **operational** [4] - 42 : 10, 42 : 11 , 85 :23 , 108 :20 **operations** [2] - 83:4, 95: 12 **opinion** [5] - 160 :3, 162 : 18 , 164:7, 170:23 **opinions** [2] - 110 : 15, 167: 17 **opportunities** [3] - 14:3, 73: 13 , 76:3 **opportunity** [ 13] - 13:7, 13:8, 14 :4, 14 :7, 54: 17, 73 :6, 73:9, 73: 11 , 73 : 18, 132 :7, 136 :4, 151 :6, 162 :7 **opposed** [1] - 67 :9 **opposition** [1] - 74:6 **option** [2] - 15:22, 62 :25 **options** [1] - 44 : 19 **order** [9] - 10: 11 , 13: 15, 13 : 17, 30 :6, 47:4, 161 :21 , 162 :2, 162 :23 , 169:5 **Order** [1] - 8: 13 **Oregon** [2] - 21 :20 , 119 : 10 **organic** [1] - 34:23 **organization** [1] - 64:23 **organizations** [2] - 66:20, 160 : 14 **organizer** [1] - 70 :8 **organizing** [1] - 69: 12 **oriented** [1] - 145 : 17 **original** [4] - 22 : 14 , 67: 11 , 107 :8, 120 :23 **originally** [1] - 95:5 **ORTH** [ 111 ] - 2:3, 10:1, 11 :22 , 12 :4, 12 : 10, 12 : 16, 14 : 17 , 14: 19, 18 :8, 29: 19, 29:25, 30 :4, 30: 11 , 30: 15, 30 :20, 32 :4, 32 : 10, 36 :8, 41 :24, 42 : 13, 44 :7, 44:25, 46: 15, 46 :25, 47 :25, 50:9, 53:23 , 54:1, 56: 10, 58 :6, 61 :5, 64:7, 69: 17 , 74: 12, 74: 16, 75 :24, 76 : 12 , 76: 16, 81 : 15, 81 :24 , 83:9, 87:9, 87 : 12 , 87: 14, 87 : 16, 87 : 18 , 91 :3, 95: 16 , 95:20, 96:2, 96:4, 96 : 14 , 97: 17, 99 :7, 99: 10, 99: 12, 99 : 14, 100 : 18 , 101 :2, 101 :5, 101 :8, 101 : 11 , 101 : 13 , 103 :20 , 109: 16 , 109 : 19 , 109:21 , 109 :23 , 109:25, 11 6:21 , 123:20 , 126 :3, 126 :7, 127 :7, 127 : 16 , 127:21 , 127 :24 , 128:24 , 129 :3, 129 : 13 , 129 : 17 , 132 :8, 134:8, 138 :1, 139 : 12 , 139 : 18 , 139:21 , 140 :6, 140 :9, 140 : 15, 140 : 19 , 141 : 11 , 145 :6, 147 :2, 149 :25, 152 : 10 , 159:9, 162 :20 , 163:25, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 18

164 :3, 165 :9, 166 :9, 167 :20 , 167:25, 168 :20 , 169:21 , 170 :9, 170 : 11 , 171 : 18 , 171 :23 , 172 :5 **Orth** [1] - 10 :2 **Ortiz** [ 11 ] - 9:4, 78: 16, 78 : 18, 92 :9, 96:7, 96: 15, 96: 18, 97:4, 97:21 , 99: 19, 101 :3 **ORTIZ** [4] - 5:9, 81 :21 , 96 :8, 101 :4 **Ortiz '**  [1] - 99 :5 **OSHA** [1] - 15 :6 **ostensibly** [1] - 163 :24 **otherwise** [1] - 136:3 **ourselves** [1] - 68 :25 **outages** [2] - 94 :5, 94:7 **outlet** [1] - 118 :1 **outside** [3] - 36 :3, 91 :22, 137 :9 **overall** [5] - 65 : 14, 108 :25, 114:2, 114:5, 114 : 11 **overestimate** [1] - 40: 18 **overestimated** [1] - 28: 12 **overly** [3] - 27 :5, 27: 13, 31 :21 **overpred icted**  [2] - 40:5, 40:7 **oversaw** [3] - 20 : 13 , 108 :6, 108 :8 **overt** [1] - 52 : 16 **overview** [2] - 63 : 18 , 78:3 **own** [ 17] - 17 :23 , 80:23, 84 :1, 84:2, 84: 14, 84 : 19, 84 :20 , 90:5, 144 :4, 144 :24 , 148 : 19 , 149: 13 , 155 : 14 , 162 :3 **owner** [2] - 72 :20 , 84:3 **owners** [8] - 52 :2, 52 : 10, 78 : 12, 83 :22 , 84:3, 84:4, 84 :5, 86:23 **ownership** [3] - 83:25, 84 :6, 84:9 **owns** [2] - 83 :25, 90:5 **oxide** [6] - 17 : 12 , 55: 18, 75 :4, 86: 12, 155 : 19 , 156:5 **oxides** [6] - 23 :21 ,72 :3, 154 :1, 155 :21 ,

155 : 22 , 156:3 

## P

**P- as** **- in**  **- Peter** **-E-R R-O-T-T-E**  [1] - 61 : 15 **p.m** [3] - 140: 17, 140 : 18 , 172 :8 **PA** [2] - 3:4, 3:21 **Pacific** [1] - 36 :4 **package** [1] - 18:3 **PAGE** [3] - 4:2, 5:2, 6:2 **page** [ 12] - 33 : 17 , 33: 19, 34 : 22, 102 :6, 102 : 10 , 102 : 14 , 106 : 11 , 107: 11 , 109 : 11 , 110: 12 , 112 : 12 **pages** [3] - 33 : 13 , 51 :5, 110 : 13 **paid** [2] - 137 :4, 137 :5 **Palo** [2] - 90 :6, 131 : 12 **panel** [ 10] - 10: 19 , 15: 10, 30 :8, 30: 13, 32 :7, 32 : 12 , 32 : 14, 46: 17, 101 :7, 110 :2 **pantries** [1] - 67 : 16 **parameters** [3] - 108 : 24 , 111 :2, 111 : 13 **park** [2] - 51 : 15, 100 : 13 **Park** [5] - 8: 17 , 24:1, 24: 20, 25 :3, 158 :24 **parks** [5] - 75: 17 , 144 :9, 144 : 17 , 151 : 19 , 151 : 23 **Parks** [2] - 16 : 18 , 22 :1 **part** [ 16] - 21 : 16 , 45:9, 62 : 20 , 63: 13, 70: 14, 90 :7, 104 :23 , 108 : 25, 123:7, 144 : 15, 149: 14 , 158 :9, 161 :2, 165 :7, 169 : 25, 170:4 **Part** [2] - 7: 11 , 45 :8 **participate** [1] - 166 : 18 **participation** [3] - 47:8, 84: 10 , 169 : 14 **particles** [2] - 59 :3, 59:4 **particular** [5] - 118 : 16 , 145: 18 , 146 : 10 , 146: 19 , 165 : 13 **particularly** [4] - 27:6, 139 :1, 139 :2 **particulate** [6] - 17: 11 , 23 :22, 34 :23 , 42 :25, 86 :8, 86: 15 **parties** [8] - 10:7, 10: 17, 12 : 19, 126 : 10 , 126 : 19 , 127:3, 173 : 14 , 173: 16 **partner** [1] - 66 :5 **partners** [1] - 71 :7 **Partnership** [3] - 20: 18, 25 : 16, 40 :1 **parts** [2] - 19 : 10 , 94: 17 **party** [3] - 72 : 19 , 79:25, 83 :25 **party 's**  [4] - 14 : 10, 14: 11 , 76 :5 **Paseo** [2] - 3: 16 , 3:23 **pass** [1] - 73 : 18 **passed** [4] - 52 : 12 , 54:21 , 58 :23, 146 : 12 **past** [5] - 62 :4, 72 :9, 75:7, 80:22 , 131 : 17 **pastors** [1] - 69: 13 **patently** [1] - 59 : 10 **path** [3] - 124:21 , 124 :22 , 125:1 **Patrick** [4] - 8:23 , 78:1, 81 : 12 , 82 :8 **PATRICK** [4] - 5:6, 81 :21 , 82 :1, 82 :9 **patterns** [1] - 66:2 **Paul** [4] - 132 : 18, 141 :3, 145 :7, 145 : 14 **PAUL** [5] - 5: 18 , 6:5, 132 : 12 , 132 : 18 , 145 :8 **pawn** [1] - 52 : 16 **pay** [7] - 59 :24, 72 : 14, 72 :21 , 73 : 16 , 85: 16, 130 :25, 154:5 **paying** [3] - 27 :8, 52 :9, 151 : 16 **payments** [1] - 85 : 17 **payroll** [1] - 85 : 15 **pays** [3] - 137:1, 137 : 10 , 171 :4 **peace** [1] - 68 : 12 **PEACOCK** [16] - 2:7, 14: 14, 14 : 18, 37 : 14 , 41 : 18, 46 :22, 76 : 11 , 96:3, 139 : 17, 139 : 19 , 140 :5, 140 :7, 140 : 10 , 140 : 14 , 172 :2, 172 :6 **Peak** [3] - 58: 19, 153 : 13 , 153: 15 **Pedro** [2] - 16 : 18, 22 :1 **people** [43] - 47: 18, 48:20, 56 : 19, 57 : 15, 59:22, 59 :24, 60 :9, 60: 10, 62 : 18, 62 :22 , 62 :23, 65 :23, 67 : 13 , 67: 18, 68 : 15, 70 : 15, 70: 16, 70 : 19, 70 :21 , 71 : 11 , 71 :21 , 73 :7, 73: 12, 73 : 16, 73 : 18 , 75:9, 75: 16 , 89:23, 104 :22 , 135:4, 135:5, 136 :3, 136 :7, 136 :25, 142 :2, 143 :3, 143 :8, 143 :9, 146 :21 , 148 : 11 , 171 :3 **per** [24] - 43 : 12 , 43: 14, 43 : 17, 46 :8, 46:9, 49: 14 , 85: 16, 93: 19, 95 :9, 95: 10, 95: 14, 98 :22, 107 : 16 , 111 :21 , 115: 10 , 121 :6, 132 :2, 143 :1, 151 : 12 , 151 : 17 , 155 :22 , 155:23 , 156 :3, 156 :4 **Peralta** [1] - 3:23 **percent** [40] - 23 :25, 24:6, 27:7, 49 : 15, 49:23, 67 :2, 67:6, 67:7, 84:2, 85 :9, 85: 10, 86 :9, 86: 12, 91 : 16, 94 :1, 98: 18, 98:23, 99 :2, 111 :25, 112 :2, 112 :25, 113:6, 113 : 13 , 113: 18 , 113 :21 , 113:25, 114 :2, 114 : 15, 114 : 16 , 114:23 , 115 :5, 133 :24 , 136 :23 , 136:25, 142 :6, 143 :3, 155 : 18 , 155 :20 **percentage** [2] - 113 :23 , 123:5 **perceptible** [6] - 51 : 18, 53 :1, 53:5, 53: 16, 53 : 17, 113 : 18 **perform** [1] - 109 :1 **perhaps** [1] - 104 : 15 **period** [3] - 91 : 19 , 92 :8, 108 : 15 **permanent** [2] - 134 :24 , 135:20 **permit** [3] - 95 :8, 108 :4, 115 : 18 **permitted** [1] - 95:9 **permitting** [1] - 108 :5 **Perrotte** [3] - 61 :7, 61 : 15, 64 :7 **PERROTTE** [4] - 4:20 , 61 :8, 61 : 14 , 61 : 17 **person** [3] - 19:9, 132 :2, 167 : 11 **personal** [4] - 133 : 10 , 145: 19 , 154 :25, 160: 10 **personally** [2] - 126 :22 , 173: 10 **perspective** [ 10] - 138 :20 , 139:6, 152 :25, 153:1, 154 : 13 , 155:25, 156 :6, 171 : 14 , 171 : 15, 171 : 16 **pertaining** [1] - 26 :9 **Peter** [1] - 61 : 15 **petition** [3] - 24 : 17 , 26:21 , 26 :22 **phased** [1] - 94 :6 **PhD** [1] - 169 : 17 **photons** [1] - 60 :22 **pick** [1] - 25 :9 **pictures** [1] - 135 : 11 **piece** [2] - 65 : 10 , 126 :2 **place** [8] - 35 : 15, 39:5, 41 : 16 , 80:22, 81 :5, 90: 11 , 101 : 19 , 146 : 17 **places** [1] - 153 : 13 **PLA N**  [1] - 1:4 **Plan** [26] - 8: 14 , 8:20 , 10:5, 15: 17 , 37:3, 48:25, 55 : 15, 137 : 19 , 138 : 17 , 139: 10 , 139 :23 , 145:21 , 149 :5, 149 : 11 , 149 : 17 , 155:7, 155 : 12 , 155: 14 , 155 : 15, 158:5, 158:8, 158 : 17 , 159:7, 164 :23 , 168:5, 168: 15 **plan** [44] - 13 :24 , 21 :8, 21 : 13 , 29:3, 41 :3, 49: 17 , 49:25, 51 :25, 52 : 15, 53 :3, 53:6, 53:7, 75 :4, 75 :7, 75:21 , 88 :3, 89: 18, 89: 19, 131 :23 , 132 :25, 134:7, 138 : 19 , 138:22 , 138 :24 , 138:25, 139 :6, 139 : 10 , 142 :4, 142 :5, 142 : 15, 142 :22 , 144: 16 , 144 :23 , 145:1, 147 :25, 148: 18 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 19

151 :3, 151 :7, 151 : 10 , 152 :3, 158 : 10 **Planet** [1] - 65: 10 **planet** [6] - 61 : 19 , 61 :22, 62 : 16, 65 :2, 66:25, 68 :9 **planning** [3] - 15 :4, 89: 15, 98 :7 **Planning** [1] - 18 : 23 **plant** [29] - 25 : 14 , 49:3, 49:9, 60 :21 , 60:23, 63 :2, 66:21 , 72 :20, 75 :5, 75: 12, 83:4, 83:24 , 86: 15, 88:22, 88 :24, 94 : 15, 94: 16, 95 :5, 105 : 16 , 111 : 17 , 117:6, 117 : 14 , 117: 15, 131 : 11 , 133: 11 , 137 : 10 , 144: 11 , 146 :22 , 170:24 **Plant** [5] - 62 :6, 63: 19, 70 : 13, 84 : 15, 133 : 15 **plants** [ 11 ] - 44 : 16 , 44:24, 46 :7, 62 : 14, 62 :20, 66 :23, 122 :3, 133 : 13 , 133: 19 , 137 :1, 143 :22 **Plata** [1] - 135: 18 **Plateau** [2] - 21 :24 , 21 :25 **play** [1] - 158 :4 **played** [1] - 151 : 16 **playing** [1] - 159 : 21 **pleadings** [4] - 15: 16, 17 :20, 18 :1, 18:5 **pleasure** [1] - 96 :2 **plot** [1] - 116: 11 **plugs** [1] - 125 :25 **plus** [1] - 130 :22 **PNM** [73] - 7: 13 , 7: 14 , 13:21 , 28:2, 28:8, 29:23 , 37:23, 38:1, 39:6, 48 :22 , 49:4, 52 :9, 72 :5, 72 : 19, 73 : 14, 73 :23 , 74:1, 77:2, 77 : 19 , 78:3, 78:8, 78 : 13 , 79:3, 79: 18 , 81 : 19, 82 : 12, 82 : 16, 83 :8, 83: 11 , 83 : 17, 83 :21 , 83:25, 84 :9, 84: 13, 86:2, 86:22 , 86:24, 90:5, 94: 13 , 96:22, 97:5, 97: 15, 97:20, 98:6, 101 :25, 102 :3, 102 : 15, 103:8, 103 : 18 , 103:22 ,117 : 19 , 117: 20 ,

118 :4, 121 :3, 121 :4, 133 :1, 136 : 10 , 142 : 18 , 143: 25, 147 : 22 , 148:3, 148 : 19 , 148: 23 , 149 :8, 150 : 13 , 156 : 25, 157: 10 , 157 : 14 , 157: 17 , 164 : 14 , 165: 13 , 171 :4 **PNM 's**  [ 10] - 27 :7, 28: 16, 28 : 18, 28 :22 , 38: 15, 80 : 16, 98 :23 , 99:3, 119 : 22, 166 : 15 **point** [19] - 26 : 11 , 31 : 19, 39 :6, 56:25, 65: 14, 95 :5, 98:25, 112 :4, 124 :8, 125 :5, 125 : 15, 153:7, 154:2, 154 :5, 156 : 11 , 160 : 23 , 164:4, 169 : 13 , 171 :2 **pointed** [2] - 142 :22 , 143 : 10 **points** [4] - 34: 17, 104 : 17 , 152 : 24 , 170 :3 **poison** [1] - 59 : 13 **policies** [3] - 68 :4, 145 : 19 , 146: 17 **Policy** [1] - 18 :23 **policy** [3] - 156 :9, 156 : 13 , 165: 18 **political** [1] - 158 :3 **pollutant** [3] - 35 :4, 43: 12, 43 : 17 **pollutants** [5] - 34 :9, 35:2, 35:3, 49 :6, 75 :5 **polluted** [1] - 75 : 16 **pollution** [ 19] - 55:1, 63: 16, 65 :6, 65:25, 66:9, 67:2, 67 : 12 , 72 : 14, 75 : 21 , 79 : 10 , 142 :8, 143 : 15, 143 : 23 , 154:1, 154:9, 154 : 19 , 156:5, 156 : 19 , 170: 18 **pollution -** **free** [1] - 170 : 18 **pollutions** [1] - 136 : 16 **Pontifical** [2] - 67 :25, 68: 13 **poor** [5] - 62 : 22, 66: 16, 67 : 16, 143 : 13 , 170 : 21 **poorest** [1] - 50 :6 **Pope** [1] - 68 :1 **port** [1] - 119 :9 **portfolio** [1] - 146: 12 **portion** [1] - 139:1 **portions** [2] - 104 : 14 , 107:21 **Portland** [1] - 119:9 **position** [ 12] - 18:21 , 19:1, 19:23 , 20:3, 20:5, 20:7, 20 : 10 , 78:1, 119 :22, 165 : 18 , 165 :25 **positive** [5] - 78 : 10 , 117 :23 , 135:9, 142 :7, 170 :24 **possible** [2] - 38: 17, 64:5 **possibly** [1] - 125 :8 **Post** [3] - 2: 13, 2: 18 , 3:22 **postcontrol** [1] - 108 :21 **posted** [1] - 24 :25 **poststrip** [1] - 91 : 14 **potential** [1] - 100: 12 **potentially** [1] - 100 :7 **pounds** [6] - 93 : 19 , 95:9, 95: 10 , 95: 14, 115 : 10 , 155:23 **Power** [9] - 3:20, 62 :6, 63: 19 , 64:23, 66:6, 66: 19 , 69: 10, 70: 12, 133 : 15 **power** [13] - 25 : 14 , 44: 16, 44 :24, 55 :7, 60:20, 63 :1, 66: 11 , 66:21 , 66 :23, 133 : 11 , 133 : 13 , 143:22 , 171 :8 **practice** [2] - 28 : 11 , 135 : 12 **pre** [2] - 9:7, 108:21 **Pre** [2] - 8:23 , 9:4 **Pre -** **Filed** [2] - 8:23 , 9:4 **pre -** **Filed** [1] - 9:7 **preaching** [1] - 142 :21 **precedent** [1] - 122 : 10 **precipitators** [1] - 94: 19 **predominantly** [2] - 135 : 17 , 136:24 **preferred** [1] - 53:7 **prefiled** [ 14] - 10 :20 , 15:3, 19: 13 , 20:24, 82 : 15, 82 :22, 97 :4, 97:9, 97:22 , 101 :24 , 102 :20 , 103:7, 104 : 18 , 107:22 **prehearing** [1] - 162 :2 **premature** [3] - 75: 15, 154 :22 , 157:25 **prepare** [2] - 101 :24, 103 :7 **prepared** [6] - 25 :5, 25:24, 82 : 14, 97 :4, 98: 14, 172 :7 **Presbyterian** [1] - 69: 14 **present** [ 10] - 10 : 18 , 12 :20, 67 :22, 79 :5, 80: 17, 101 :7, 127 :4, 128 :1, 128 :7, 167 : 17 **presentation** [9] - 30:6, 63: 15, 63: 18, 73:1, 76:5, 76 : 19 , 76:21 , 99 :5, 128 :9 **presented** [2] - 53 :2, 108 : 14 **presenting** [3] - 78:1, 78: 16 , 79:2 **president** [3] - 78 :2, 82 : 12, 147 : 15 **pressing** [1] - 54 :25 **pressure** [5] - 117 :23 , 117:25, 118 :2, 118 : 11 , 157: 17 **pressures** [1] - 116 :2 **presumptive** [13] - 46:2, 46:6, 46 :7, 80:20, 80 :24, 80 :25, 81 :8, 93: 18 , 107 :9, 123 : 10 , 123: 12 , 123 : 16 **pretty** [5] - 25 : 14 , 61 :3, 115 :1, 148 :21 , 155 :21 **prevent** [1] - 167: 17 **preventing** [2] - 154 :22 , 154:23 **prevents** [1] - 155 : 18 **previous** [2] - 20 :6, 146 :1 **price** [2] - 66 : 11 , 117 : 18 **prices** [2] - 55:3, 151 :21 **pricing** [1] - 97:1 **primary** [2] - 156 : 14 **print** [1] - 13 :7 **printer** [2] - 12 :24, 13:2 **pristine** [1] - 58: 19 **priv ileged**  [1] - 141 :25 **problem** [9] - 59:3, 62 :24, 115 : 16 , 148:4, 148 :5, 158 : 18 , 165:1, 165 :4, 171 :7 **problems** [4] - 62 : 14 , 75: 14, 156 : 15, 156: 16 **procedural** [4] - 13: 17, 162 :22 , 166:6, 169 :5 **procedures** [2] - 10: 11 , 10 : 12 **proceed** [6] - 11 :5, 81 : 14, 95 :25, 96 :3, 96: 13, 101 : 12 **proceeded** [1] - 38 :9 **proceeding** [6] - 16: 11 , 97 : 12, 98 :9, 166 :8, 173 :7, 173 : 14 **PROCEEDINGS** [1] - 1: 14 **proceedings** [1] - 124 : 11 **Proceedings** [3] - 76: 14, 140 : 17 , 172 :8 **proceeds** [1] - 35 :8 **process** [ 15] - 22 : 10 , 22 : 12, 66 : 12, 66 :22 , 70: 11 , 81 :3, 84: 10, 89: 15, 89 : 17, 105 :22 , 108 : 11 , 122 : 19 , 135 : 16 , 145:24 , 168 : 17 **processes** [2] - 22 : 11 , 66 : 15 **processing** [1] - 66: 13 **produce** [3] - 66:7, 133 :7, 133 : 19 **producing** [1] - 171 : 14 **product** [1] - 135:23 **production** [2] - 59: 12, 62 : 19 **productivity** [1] - 137 : 12 **professional** [2] - 135 :5, 136 :7 **profits** [2] - 144 :1, 145 :4 **program** [ 12] - 21 : 17 , 21 : 18, 21 :21 , 22 :8, 24: 11 , 35 :5, 35:6, 35:8, 36:2, 89 :8, 92 :21 , 151 : 13 **programs** [4] - 25:22, 63 :8, 89: 12, 97:3 **progress** [4] - 23 : 10 , 81 :7, 81 : 10 , 125 : 10 **prohibited** [1] - 168 : 19 **prohibits** [1] - 168 :9 **project** [14] - 19 : 11 , 34:6, 35: 11 , 52 :7, 79:5, 84: 12 , 92 : 12, 104 :20 , 104:21 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 20

106 : 18 , 108:8, 108 : 16 , 117: 12 **projected** [2] - 24 :3, 100 :4 **projecting** [1] - 40: 16 **projection** [2] - 34 :1, 35:24 **projections** [3] - 22 : 19, 33 :21 , 36 :2 **projects** [5] - 104 :8, 104 : 10 , 108:7, 122 :3, 122 : 16 **promised** [1] - 57 :3 **promises** [1] - 56 :22 **promulgation** [1] - 55:22 **proper** [2] - 57:5, 167 : 16 **properly** [1] - 57:9 **property** [2] - 85 : 18 , 137 :5 **proposal** [33] - 17:20, 31 :5, 37: 10, 48: 17, 49 : 19, 52 : 14 , 72 :6, 72 : 18 , 72 :25, 73: 19, 74 :7, 74:8, 77: 11 , 78 : 14, 78 :22 , 79: 16, 79 :20, 79 :21 , 86:24, 88 :9, 120 :24 , 151 : 11 , 155:4, 156 : 12 , 156: 15, 157 :9, 157 : 18 , 157 : 19 , 157:24 , 159 :4, 161 :8, 161 :9 **proposals** [4] - 50 :5, 55:9, 63: 19 , 124 : 11 **propose** [3] - 21 : 12, 38: 16, 113 : 10 **proposed** [35] - 7: 17 , 7: 19 , 8: 12 , 10 :4, 21 : 10, 22 : 13, 26 : 13 , 26: 14, 26 : 17, 26 : 18 , 26:24, 29 :6, 48:25, 49:7, 53:3, 53 :6, 53: 14, 55 : 14, 56 :2, 67:1, 72 :22 , 72 :24, 88: 12, 131 :24 , 137 : 19 , 138: 17 , 138 :21 , 138:24 , 142 :5, 145 :22 , 152 :2, 155 :6, 155 :7, 158 :5, 158 :8 **PROPOSED** [1] - 1:4 **proposes** [2] - 97 :2, 132 :25 **proposing** [3] - 36: 14, 72 :5, 77:21 **prosper** [1] - 131 :21 **protect** [4] - 63 :25,67: 20, 68 : 12, 68 : 16 **protecting** [2] - 50:2, 131 : 20 **Protection** [4] - 118 :6, 118 : 14 , 158 : 11 , 168:7 **protection** [3] - 153 : 10 , 153: 17 , 153 : 20 **protections** [ 10] - 31 : 11 , 31 : 25, 153 :8, 153 : 19 , 153: 22 , 153 : 24 , 154: 14 , 154 : 17 , 157: 11 , 158 : 21 **protective** [2] - 155 : 18 , 156:7 **protocol** [2] - 13:5, 108 : 17 **provide** [ 19] - 15 : 11 , 19: 12, 20 : 23, 27 : 11 , 57: 12, 58 :2, 63:8, 67: 15, 78 :3, 82 :24, 92 : 10, 98 : 10, 103 :24 , 152 : 20 , 159:1, 166 : 20 , 166: 25, 168 :4, 169 : 18 **provided** [ 13] - 15: 14, 18 :1, 26:3, 29: 16, 31 : 16, 56 :5, 72 : 18, 125 : 18 , 159:2, 164 : 11 , 164: 13 , 167 : 11 , 172 :3 **provider** [1] - 85 :7 **provides** [ 10] - 16: 22, 23 : 17, 50 :1, 83: 17, 83 : 20, 85 : 12 , 85: 24, 99 :2, 161 :6, 170 : 24 **providing** [6] - 83: 21 , 97 : 24, 165 :2, 165 :3, 166 : 21 , 166:22 **provision** [2] - 16 :21 , 38: 21 **provisions** [3] - 16 :2, 23: 16, 164 : 11 **pseudoscience** [1] - 51 : 10 **PUBLIC** [3] - 8:22 , 9:3, 173: 19 **public** [77] - 10:21 , 10: 22, 11 :2, 11 : 10, 11 : 11 , 12 : 20, 14 :1, 14:4, 14:7, 14 :8, 14: 15, 31 : 15, 31 :25, 46: 21 , 46 : 24, 47 :2, 47:5, 47:8, 47 : 11 , 47: 15, 55 :5, 55:25, 63: 25, 64 : 20, 76 :4, 76: 20, 80 :2, 89: 17, 90:1, 119 : 15, 128 : 13 , 128 : 16 , 129:7, 129 : 10 , 129:20 , 136 : 11 , 139: 19 , 139 :22 , 140:1, 141 :1, 141 :7, 142 : 17 , 151 : 18 , 152 :23 , 153 : 18 , 153:21 , 156 : 10 , 156: 13 , 156 :21 , 157:1, 157 : 12 , 158:20 , 159 : 17 , 160:4, 160:9, 161 : 18 , 162 : 18 , 162 :24 , 163:1, 163:9, 163 : 13 , 163:21 , 163 :24 , 164: 10 , 164 : 15, 165:2, 166:1, 166 : 17 , 167:5, 168:9, 168 : 19 , 169: 15, 170 : 14 , 171 : 15, 172 :3 **Public** [ 15] - 3:2, 3:2, 3:20 , 7:21 , 8:24 , 9:5, 9:9, 12 :2, 27 :3, 29:9, 76:21 , 77 :2, 78: 18, 82 : 15, 135 : 14 **public 's**  [2] - 55:22, 56:8 **published** [2] - 7: 11 , 68:1 **Pueblo** [1] - 3: 16 **pull** [1] - 47: 19 **pulling** [1] - 118:2 **pulse** [1] - 86 :7 **pulse -**  **jet** [1] - 86 :7 **pump** [1] - 92 :1 **pumps** [1] - 59 :22 **purchased** [1] - 137 :7 **purely** [1] - 161 : 18 **purpose** [4] - 98:9, 100 : 14 , 153: 19 , 166 :21 **pursuant** [5] - 10: 13, 13: 17, 30 :4, 86:23, 162 :2 **purview** [1] - 164 : 19 **push** [1] - 117 :25 **pushes** [1] - 117:21 **pushing** [1] - 118: 12 **put** [ 16] - 39:7, 64 :1, 72 :24, 76 :1, 92 : 16, 107 : 13 , 118:9, 120:4, 128 :8, 154 :20 , 155 : 14 , 156:20 , 157 :9, 158 : 10 , 159 : 14 , 159:25 **puts** [1] - 96 :24 

## Q **qualify** [1] - 169:20 **qualitative** [2] - 32 :1, 154 : 12 **qualitatively** [1] - 156 :22 **Quality** [4] - 15 :5, 15:7, 18: 19 , 20:8 **quality** [9] - 58 :20 , 67: 14, 102 : 11 , 104:7, 105 : 11 , 108:2, 109:8, 146 :20 **quantification** [1] - 45:9 **quantified** [4] - 153 :23 , 156:22 , 159 :20 , 159:22 **quantify** [5] - 31 : 10 , 31 : 14, 32 :21 , 100 : 15, 154 : 11 **quantitative** [3] - 100 :6, 100 : 11 , 154: 13 **questioning** [2] - 87:8, 99:6 **questions** [61 ] - 13:20, 15 :8, 29: 14, 30:7, 30:9, 30 : 12 , 30: 14, 30 : 16, 30 : 17 , 31 :2, 32 :3, 32 :7, 32 :8, 32 : 13, 36 :8, 41 :24, 42 : 13, 44 :7, 44:25, 46: 14, 47 : 17, 50 : 10 , 79: 11 , 87 : 10, 87 : 11 , 87: 13, 87 : 15, 87 : 17 , 87:21 , 91 :3, 95: 16, 99:8, 99:9, 99 : 11 , 99: 13, 99 : 15, 99 :24 , 100 : 17 , 100:20 , 100 :21 , 106:23 , 106 :24 , 109:9, 109 : 12 , 109: 15, 109 : 18 , 109:20 , 109 :22 , 109:24 , 110 :1, 110 :6, 116 :21 , 116 :22 , 123:20 , 129 :23 , 132 :6, 132 :9, 134 :9, 139 : 11 , 141 : 13 , 171 : 18 **quibbles** [1] - 145 :23 **quick** [3] - 31 :2, 87:25, 114 :22 **quickly** [1] - 153 :2 **quite** [6] - 13: 18, 65:23, 106 : 14 , 124 :25, 158: 19 , 159 :24 **quote** [3] - 65: 16 , 68: 13, 157 :23 

## R

**R-E- Y** **-N-O-S-A** [1] - 70:1 **race** [1] - 60 : 12 **radar** [1] - 90:4 **radical** [1] - 63 : 12 **radius** [4] - 63:21 , 71 :9, 111 :9, 144 : 10 **raise** [3] - 54:4, 130 :1, 150 :3 **raised** [1] - 165 : 13 **raises** [1] - 167 :1 **raising** [1] - 55 :20 **ralvidrez @** **mstlaw .**  **com** [1] - 3:7 **ramification** [1] - 39:9 **ranch** [2] - 57 : 13 , 135 :3 **rancher** [1] - 135:4 **range** [8] - 44 : 18 , 45:25, 46 :4, 46: 11 , 90: 18, 112 : 11 , 112 : 12 , 114:25 **ranges** [1] - 28: 17 **rants** [1] - 52 :20 **rate** [ 10] - 74 :1, 74 :3, 78: 19, 92 : 10, 92 : 12 , 111 :21 , 121 :8, 133:3, 133 :5, 133 :9 **ratepayer** [ 14] - 31 :7, 31 :20, 73 : 14, 98 : 10 , 99:24, 100 :1, 100 : 15, 154 :3, 156 : 17 , 157:3, 157 : 11 , 171 :4 **ratepayers** [9] - 27 :4, 31 :22, 48 :24, 50 :6, 52 : 12, 73 :25, 74 :4, 80: 11 , 92 :7 **rates** [2] - 132 :23, 133 :2 **rather** [8] - 35:5, 60: 12, 67 :4, 146 :4, 146 :5, 151 : 14 , 168:6, 168 : 10 **ratio** [1] - 52 :7 **RAY** [2] - 5:20 , 134 : 13 **Ray** [1] - 134 :20 **re** [1] - 98:25 **reach** [1] - 80:23 **reaching** [2] - 62 : 12 , 163 : 11 **reactivity** [1] - 93 :22 **reactor** [1] - 115 :9 **reactors** [1] - 90 : 17 **read** [4] - 38 : 11 , 51 :5, 54:22 , 102 : 15 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 21

**readily** [1] - 145:2 **reads** [1] - 102 : 10 **ready** [2] - 76: 10, 139 : 16 **real** [5] - 88 :2, 114 :22 , 146: 18 , 155 :2, 163 :22 **realities** [1] - 75 : 13 **reality** [2] - 63 : 11 , 65: 15 **realize** [3] - 17:4, 72 :7, 85: 14 **realizing** [1] - 72 : 12 **really** [25] - 35:4, 40:5, 40:8, 51 :9, 65 :5, 65: 17, 77 : 10, 77 : 16 , 79:20, 84 :22, 89 :9, 92 : 14, 94 :22, 115 :4, 136 :8, 136 : 12 , 142 : 19 , 143: 11 , 153 :9, 153 : 18 , 153 :20 , 153:24 , 166 :5, 167 :6, 172 :3 **realm** [1] - 91 :22 **reap** [1] - 60 : 13 **reason** [ 12] - 31 :4, 46: 16, 84 :7, 87:1, 95:21 , 100 :22 , 107:3, 117 :20 , 127:9, 142 :20 , 166: 16 , 167 :3 **reasonable** [ 11 ] - 23: 10, 28 : 19, 43 : 17 , 45:24, 53 : 12, 81 :7, 81 : 10, 133 :3, 133 :5, 133 :9, 143 : 12 **Reasons** [1] - 8: 12 **reasons** [5] - 93 : 18 , 131 :4, 157 : 13 , 169:3, 169 :8 **reassess** [1] - 118 :7 **recapture** [3] - 91 :20, 91 :21 , 92 :7 **receive** [2] - 24 : 16 , 68:9 **received** [7] - 11 :3, 24: 19, 24 :21 , 25 :3, 26:1, 33: 10 , 98:1 **recent** [4] - 78 :7, 94: 10, 139 :3, 146 :9 **recently** [4] - 15 :6, 68:1, 70: 13 , 143 :2 **receptors** [1] - 108 :22 **recess** [3] - 76 : 14 , 140 : 17 , 171 :24 **recognize** [1] - 68: 17 **recognized** [1] - 154 :7 **recommend** [3] - 75:20, 159 :3, 169 :2**recommendation** [6]

- 55 : 12 , 72 : 17 , 149 : 12 , 169:1, 169:8, 169 : 12 **recommendations** [3] - 15 :20 , 135:8, 149 : 14 **recommended** [1] - 148 : 20 **recommending** [1] - 158 : 22 **reconvene** [1] - 171 : 24 **record** [ 18] - 11 :3, 11 :8, 11 : 13 , 12 :21 , 18: 16, 19 : 18, 82 :7, 96: 17, 101 : 20 , 102 : 23 , 103: 19 , 124 :1, 152 : 17 , 162 : 16 , 162 : 17 , 165 :7, 166 :2, 173 : 11 **recorded** [2] - 10 :24 , 173 : 10 **Records** [1] - 29:9 **recoup** [2] - 151 :20, 151 : 24 **recover** [1] - 92 :2 **recovery** [2] - 92 :5, 92 : 13 **Red** [2] - 135:1, 135 :2 **Redirect** [1] - 4:9 **redirect** [1] - 100:25 **REDIRECT** [1] - 45 :4 **redo** [1] - 40 : 22 **reduce** [9] - 49:5, 49: 17, 57 :3, 66:22, 67:2, 68:4, 75 :4, 142 :5, 142 :6 **reduced** [3] - 86 : 11 , 156 :3, 157 : 18 **reduces** [2] - 93 :5, 155 : 20 **reducing** [2] - 44 :23 , 156 :5 **reduction** [25] - 26: 17, 26 : 25, 49 : 11 , 49: 15, 49 : 19, 55 : 13 , 67:6, 67:7, 72 :4, 72 :5, 78: 20, 78 : 21 , 86 :3, 86:9, 86: 14 , 93:22, 94:6, 107 : 15, 113 :22 , 119 : 19 , 155:5, 155:6, 156 : 19 , 160: 21 **reductions** [3] - 34: 24, 75 : 21 , 87 :2 **reevaluate** [1] - 125 :3 **refer** [1] - 63: 17 **reference** [4] - 59:1, 71 :4, 71 :23 , 111 :24 **referenced** [2] - 73:20, 86 :4 **references** [1] - 23: 18 **referred** [2] - 10:5, 77:24 **referring** [2] - 92 :23, 163 : 16 **refineries** [1] - 25 : 18 **reflect** [3] - 16 :5, 29:7, 154 :21 **reflects** [2] - 156 :8, 156 :9 **Reg** [1] - 7: 11 **reg** [1] - 104 :2 **regard** [3] - 17 : 11 , 32 :20, 165 : 14 **regarding** [4] - 31 :24, 45 :23, 110 :6, 168 :5 **regards** [1] - 49 :4 **Region** [2] - 8:5, 120 :22 **region** [7] - 25 : 13 , 36:3, 49:6, 70 : 16 , 153 : 12 , 155:1 **Regional** [12] - 7:6, 7:8, 8: 15, 8: 19, 15: 14, 15: 19, 20 : 18, 20 :22 , 23: 15, 25 : 16, 39 :25, 77: 13 **regional** [21 ] - 10:6, 15:24, 17 :5, 19:8, 20: 12, 20 : 14, 20 :21 , 21 :7, 36:2, 37 :4, 48: 17, 70 : 11 , 71 :5, 71 : 18, 77 :9, 86:8, 126 : 16 , 139:22 , 153 :22 , 154: 14 , 154 : 16 **REGIONAL** [1] - 1:5 **regions** [2] - 109 :7, 122 :8 **Register** [3] - 36: 17, 160 :20 , 161 : 12 **registered** [1] - 104 :2 **regulate** [3] - 84 :22, 85:2, 85:3 **regulation** [2] - 77 :9, 77: 18 **regulations** [9] - 21 :8, 21 : 12 , 22 : 10, 27: 10, 41 :7, 49: 11 , 89:6, 133 : 18, 162 :4 **regulators** [1] - 93: 10 **regulatory** [3] - 15: 14, 96 :25, 98 :8 **Regulatory** [1] - 96:22 **reject** [2] - 56 :1, 159 :3 **rejected** [2] - 119 : 18 , 158 : 11 **rejecting** [1] - 164 :23 **rejects** [1] - 28:23 **related** [8] - 7: 14 , 77: 15, 102 : 12 , 106 :21 , 106:22 , 140 :1, 143 : 17 , 173: 13 **relation** [1] - 110 :8 **relationship** [1] - 157 : 14 **relative** [5] - 99 :1, 102 : 11 , 102 : 12 , 138 :21 , 173: 15 **relatively** [1] - 117 :9 **relatives** [1] - 136:6 **relevant** [4] - 27 :6, 83:1, 103 :25, 166 :4 **reliable** [3] - 83 :20 , 85: 12, 90 :9 **relies** [1] - 163 :8 **religious** [1] - 62 :9 **relocated** [1] - 57 :21 **rely** [8] - 70:24 , 161 :20 , 162 : 13 , 163 :7, 163 : 13 , 164 :23 , 169:3, 169:9 **relying** [1] - 39 : 19 **remaining** [3] - 23 :4, 63:1, 105 : 15 **remains** [1] - 170 :4 **Remarks** [1] - 5:5 **remarks** [2] - 77:4, 132 :6 **remediate** [1] - 63 :5 **remember** [5] - 39:23, 52 : 14, 115 :20 , 121 :21 , 143: 13 **REMEMBERED** [1] - 1: 16 **remembering** [1] - 121 : 19 **removal** [2] - 116 :5, 137 : 11 **removed** [3] - 43: 18, 46:9 **renewable** [4] - 83: 19, 84 :24, 89 :23 , 146 : 12 **renewables** [2] - 68:23, 73 : 12 **repeat** [1] - 113:23 **repeated** [1] - 111 :22 **rephrase** [1] - 102 : 16 **replacement** [1] - 89: 10 **report** [3] - 68:2, 68:8, 164 :6 **REPORTER** [32] - 48:7, 48: 11 , 50: 18, 50:22, 54 :4, 54: 10, 54: 14, 56 : 16, 58 : 12 , 58: 16, 61 : 12, 61 : 16 , 64: 13, 64 : 17, 69 :23 , 70:2, 74:22 , 130 :1, 130 :7, 132 : 16 , 134 : 17 , 138:7, 138 : 11 , 140: 12 , 141 :20 , 145: 12 , 145 : 15, 147:8, 147 : 12 , 150:3, 150:9, 150 : 11 **Reporters** [1] - 10 :25 **represent** [4] - 54: 15, 138 : 14 , 158 :20 , 159:24 **representative** [3] - 71 :25, 132 : 19 , 138: 10 **Representative** [2] - 134 :8, 138 :1 **Representatives** [1]

- 134 :21 **represented** [1] - 128 :4 **representing** [5] - 12 :8, 30:25, 51 :3, 51 : 17, 145 : 16 **represents** [7] - 48:20, 98 : 18, 98 :20 , 98:22, 123 :6, 147 : 19 , 156 :9 **request** [5] - 29:2, 115 :4, 137 :25, 161 :24 , 162 : 15 **requests** [1] - 7: 12 **require** [7] - 45 :8, 45: 16, 45 : 17, 80 :5, 105 :20 , 116:8, 168:22 **required** [8] - 21 : 11 , 29:8, 41 :7, 49 : 18 , 55:4, 93: 12 , 109 :1, 123 :7 **requirement** [1] - 23:21 **requirements** [ 14] - 15: 18, 15 :24, 17 : 10 , 17: 14, 22 : 18, 23 : 10 , 23: 14, 23 : 17, 25 :25, 36: 15, 41 :3, 49: 10, 77: 12, 77 : 18 **requires** [5] - 17: 12 , 38:22, 68 : 19, 118 :7, 118 : 15 **requiring** [1] - 41 :4 **research** [1] - 44: 15 **resent** [1] - 52 : 11 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 22

**Reservation** [2] - 133 : 16 , 134:2 **reservation** [1] - 135 : 17 **residence** [1] - 135 :20 **resident** [5] - 74 : 25, 130 : 13 , 134:24 , 141 :24 , 151 : 16 **residential** [2] - 151 : 11 , 151 : 16 **residents** [1] - 143 : 19 **resisting** [1] - 148 :3 **resolved** [2] - 38 :3, 122 :20 **resort** [1] - 158 : 14 **resource** [5] - 83: 17, 84:20, 89 : 13, 89 : 15, 89: 17 **resources** [4] - 64 :1, 84:21 , 158 : 10 **Resources** [10] - 3: 14 , 12 :8, 96 :22 , 130 : 15, 153:3, 157 : 10 , 157: 14 , 157 : 17 , 164: 15, 171 :4 **respect** [ 10] - 17 : 10 , 49: 11 , 62 : 10, 77 :21 , 78: 14, 79 :9, 80:8, 103 : 12 , 144: 19 , 162 :4 **respectfully** [2] - 29:2, 160 : 17 **respiratory** [1] - 75: 14 **respond** [2] - 162 :9, 162 :21 **responded** [2] - 106 :23 , 109:8 **response** [6] - 7:23, 7:25, 8: 10 , 17 :23 , 23:1, 107 :6 **responses** [4] - 8:6, 25:1, 25:5, 25 :24 **responsibility** [2] - 67:20, 145 :20 **responsible** [1] - 96:23 **responsive** [1] - 166 :20 **rest** [5] - 13 :4, 131 : 10 , 140:25, 143 : 18 , 143:21 **restoration** [1] - 63:9 **restore** [1] - 63 :5 **restrictions** [1] - 52 :22 **resubmitted** [1] - 107 :9 **result** [8] - 28 :2,41 : 12, 51 : 12, 55 :3,

55: 17, 107 : 15, 112 :6, 116 :3 **resulted** [1] - 78 : 11 **results** [2] - 111 :23 , 116 : 24 **retail** [3] - 78 : 17 , 98: 23, 99 :3 **Retail** [1] - 96 : 22 **retired** [2] - 59 :20 , 136 :9 **retirees** [1] - 49 :22 **retirement** [1] - 150 : 13 **retrofit** [6] - 72 :8, 105 : 24 , 117: 13 , 118 : 19 , 120:1, 149: 14 **Retrofit** [6] - 17 :6, 17:9, 22 : 17 , 23:20, 26: 25, 27 : 19 **retrofits** [1] - 73: 11 **retrofitting** [2] - 42 :4, 119 :2 **revenue** [2] - 59 : 15, 70: 25 **revenues** [2] - 59 :24 , 135 : 25 **Reverend** [2] - 69 :9, 69: 11 **reverse** [1] - 55 : 16 **review** [3] - 18 :5, 122 :1, 122 : 19 **reviewed** [2] - 11 :4, 44: 19 **reviewing** [1] - 122 : 18 **revise** [3] - 22 : 15, 22 : 18, 24 : 13 **revised** [7] - 8: 16, 22 : 16, 24 :8, 29:6, 55: 22, 107 :4, 107 : 14 **Revised** [1] - 8: 19 **revising** [1] - 22 : 10 **revision** [1] - 24 : 11 **REVISIONS** [1] - 1:4 **revisions** [21 ] - 7: 17 , 7: 19 , 7:22 , 7:24 , 10 :4, 16: 10, 16 : 11 , 16 : 15, 17:8, 17: 18 , 17:22, 21 :5, 22 : 13 , 22 :20, 22 : 22, 22 : 25, 24 : 17 , 29:3, 29:6, 56 :2, 139 : 23 **revisited** [1] - 124 :7 **rework** [1] - 117: 17 **Reynosa** [4] - 69: 18, 69: 25, 70 :8, 74: 12 **REYNOSA** [4] - 4:24 , 69: 19, 69 : 25, 70 :3 **RICHARD** [1] - 3:3 **Rick** [2] - 12 :1, 77:1 **rid** [1] - 57:24 **rigorous** [1] - 42 :6 **Rio** [1] - 153:5 **ripple** [1] - 149 :21 **risen** [1] - 146: 10 **risk** [1] - 158:9 **RITA** [2] - 4:4, 18: 10 **Rita** [3] - 7: 16 , 15 :4, 18: 17 **River** [5] - 70 : 18 , 84: 17, 84 : 18, 133 : 14 , 136 : 15 **robust** [1] - 44 :20 **Rock** [1] - 135 :3 **role** [4] - 19 :7, 20 : 11 , 96:23, 159 : 13 **Room** [1] - 1: 19 **Rose** [2] - 87: 14, 109 :21 **rose** [7] - 32 :5, 99: 12, 127 :24 , 128 : 11 , 166: 11 , 167 :23 , 169: 18 **RO SE**  [10] - 3:21 , 32 :8, 87: 15, 99: 13, 109 :22 , 127: 19 , 127 :23 , 128: 15, 128 :25, 166: 13 **rose 's**  [1] - 127 : 18 **roughly** [ 15] - 83 :23 , 84: 16, 84 : 17, 85 :5, 85:8, 85: 10 , 85: 15, 85: 16, 85 :21 , 86 : 12 , 104 :22 , 107: 16 , 112 :1, 114 :23 , 138:25 **roundhouse** [1] - 12 :25 **route** [1] - 108 : 17 **royalties** [2] - 85: 16 , 137 :4 **Roybal** [8] - 12 : 15, 30: 12, 87 : 12, 99 : 10 , 109 : 19 , 128:4, 129 : 14 , 167:21 **RO YBAL**  [8] - 3:9, 12 : 13, 30 : 14, 87 : 13 , 99: 11 , 109 :20 , 129 : 15, 167:22 **rule** [9] - 21 : 16 , 23 :6, 23: 19, 29 :3, 38:22, 51 : 14, 55 :23, 56 :2 **Rule** [7] - 7:7, 7:9, 15: 15, 15 : 19, 20 :22 , 23: 15, 77 : 13 **rulemaking** [2] - 10: 10, 162 :4 **rules** [11 ] - 21 : 19 , 41 :6, 41 : 16 , 149 : 13 , 162 :4, 162 :22 , 167:4, 167 : 10 , 167: 14 , 169 :4, 169 : 13 **ruling** [3] - 162 : 14, 169 :23 , 170:1 **run** [6] - 60: 14, 60: 15, 84 :25, 85 : 19 , 88:24, 121 :1 **Runnels** [1] - 2:4 **rural** [1] - 70:23 **RYAN** [ 14] - 2: 10 , 110 :6, 112 :24 , 113:2, 113 :8, 113 : 16 , 113 : 19 , 114:1, 114 : 12 , 115:3, 116 : 19 , 122 : 10 , 126 :8, 159 : 12 

## S

**S-L-O-T-A** [1] - 150 : 10 **S-O-N-N-T-A-G** [1] - 48: 10 **sacrifice** [1] - 143:20 **safe** [2] - 83:20, 90:9 **safeguard** [1] - 67 :22 **safeguards** [2] - 67:2, 67:5 **Safety** [1] - 20:1 **Sahu** [ 10] - 159 :2, 160 :24 , 161 :6, 162 :8, 163 : 17 , 166:4, 167 : 12 , 168:4, 169:6, 169 : 17 **Sahu 's**  [7] - 161 : 12 , 164 :6, 164 : 12 , 164 :20 , 165: 14 , 166 :24 , 168:24 **salesmen** [1] - 47 :7 **salient** [2] - 83 : 13 , 97:22 **salutary** [1] - 146:20 **San** [ 105] - 3:8, 3: 14 , 12 :8, 12 : 15, 13:23, 16: 18, 17 : 14, 21 :25, 24:22, 26 : 10, 27 :1, 27: 19, 28 :20, 30 :25, 35: 19, 38 :1, 48: 17, 52 :1, 52 :2, 52 : 10 , 52 : 16, 52 :20, 52 :23 , 58:21 , 63 :20, 67 :5, 70: 11 , 70 : 18, 71 :2, 72 :2, 72 :7, 72 :25, 74:9, 75:5, 75 : 12 , 77:21 , 78 :3, 78:8, 78: 12, 78 : 14, 79 : 16 , 79:23, 83 : 16, 84 : 13 , 84: 16, 84 : 17, 84 : 18 , 85:2, 85:5, 85 :6, 85 :8, 85:9, 85: 10 , 85: 14, 85: 18, 89 : 10, 98 : 12 , 99:22, 102 : 16 , 118 : 18 , 121 :9, 121 : 12 , 121 : 13 , 121 : 15, 122 :25, 123 :1, 123 : 16 , 123 :24 , 125: 18 , 125 :24 , 128:3, 130 : 11 , 130: 18 , 130 :20 , 130:22 , 131 : 10 , 131 : 15, 131 : 19 , 132 :20 , 132 :24 , 133: 13 , 133 : 14 , 133:23 , 133 :24 , 134:4, 134 :23 , 134:24 , 136 : 15, 136:21 , 136 :24 , 137:6, 137:7, 137 : 15, 139:3, 140 :23 , 142 :6, 149:7, 153 :6, 154 :9, 155 : 19 **Sandia** [1] - 58 : 19 **Santa** [13] - 1: 19 , 2:5, 2: 13, 2:20, 3:23 , 11 :6, 51 :20 , 74:25, 140 :21 , 142 : 11 , 142 : 18 , 144: 12 **satisfied** [1] - 23: 19 **satisfy** [2] - 17 :9, 22 : 17 **saw** [4] - 70 : 15, 71 : 12, 143 :2, 148 : 10 **scenario** [4] - 111 :7, 111 : 17 , 111 :20 , 112 :7 **scenarios** [1] - 108 :22 **scene** [2] - 112 :6 **schedule** [1] - 89 :1 **schedules** [1] - 91 :24 **scheme** [1] - 15: 14 **Schlenker** [24] - 4:7, 5: 12 , 12 :5, 12 :7, 30: 16, 30 :24, 32 :4, 87: 16, 99 : 14, 99 :22 , 100 : 18 , 109:23 , 127 :20 , 128: 12 , 129 :4, 141 :5, 152 : 11 , 159 :9, 161 : 15, 163:1, 164 :8, 169 :23 , 170:1, 170 :7 **SCHLENKER** [25] - 3: 15, 6: 11 , 12 :6, 29:24, 30 : 17, 30 :22 , 30:23, 31 :9, 31 : 14, 31 : 18, 31 :23, 32 :3, 87: 17, 99 : 15, 99 : 18 , 109 :24 , 129:6, 152 : 12 , 152 : 16 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 23

160 : 16 , 164:9, 168:1, 170 :8, 171 :1, 171 :21 **Schlenker****** **Goodrich** [24] - 4:7, 5: 12 , 12 :5, 12 :7, 30: 16, 30 :24, 32 :4, 87: 16, 99 : 14, 99 :22 , 100 : 18 , 109:23 , 127 :20 , 128: 12 , 129 :4, 141 :5, 152 : 11 , 159 :9, 161 : 15, 163:1, 164 :8, 169 :23 , 170:1, 170 :7 **SCHLENKER****** **GOODRICH** [25] - 3: 15, 6: 11 , 12 :6, 29:24, 30 : 17, 30 :22 , 30:23, 31 :9, 31 : 14, 31 : 18, 31 :23, 32 :3, 87: 17, 99 : 15, 99 : 18 , 109 :24 , 129:6, 152 : 12 , 152 : 16 , 160 : 16 , 164:9, 168:1, 170 :8, 171 :1, 171 :21 **school** [2] - 154: 23 , 168 :23 **School** [1] - 98:4 **science** [5] - 19 :5, 98:1, 104 :5, 156 :8, 156 : 12 **Sciences** [2] - 67: 25, 68: 14 **scientific** [4] - 71 : 18, 159 : 14 , 159:25, 165 : 15 **scientist** [4] - 65: 20, 108 :2, 113 :21 , 115:3 **scientists** [1] - 65 : 14 **SCNR** [1] - 49 :8 **SCR** [53] - 26 : 17 , 26:25, 27 :5, 27: 15, 27:25, 28 :1, 28: 19, 31 :5, 31 : 12 , 31 : 16, 55: 13, 55 : 18, 56 :3, 73:4, 74:9, 78 :20 , 79: 10, 79 : 16, 79 :23 , 80:5, 80: 12 , 92 :4, 98: 11 , 98 :20, 99 :1, 100 :9, 113 : 11 , 114 :21 , 115:9, 115 : 15, 116:4, 116 : 13 , 117:6, 117:8, 117 : 16 , 118:5, 118 : 19 , 120:4, 121 : 12 , 121 :21 , 121 :22 , 155:8, 155 : 16 , 155: 17 , 155 :23 , 155:25, 156 :2, 156 :6, 158 :22 , 158 :24 , 159:5, 161 :7**SCR /** **SNCR** [2] -

115 :7, 116 : 11 **screen** [1] - 90 :4 **SCRs** [4] - 117 :3, 120 : 14 , 120: 23 , 121 :1 **scrubber** [1] - 91 : 16 **scrubbers** [1] - 94: 18 **scrubbing** [1] - 91 : 16 **second** [6] - 105: 11 , 105 : 25, 127: 22 , 144 :5, 144 :6, 153 : 17 **secretary** [2] - 169 :2 **section** [4] - 15 :5, 23:6, 23: 18 , 39: 13 **Section** [30] - 7:4, 7:5, 7:6, 7:7, 7:8, 7:9, 7: 17 , 7: 19 , 7:22 , 8: 15, 8: 19 , 15: 18 , 15:20, 16:2, 16:7, 16 : 12 , 16: 21 , 16 : 22, 17 :1, 17:8, 17: 12 , 17: 19, 18: 24, 21 : 22, 21 :23 , 23:7, 33:5, 33 :6, 39: 13, 169 : 14 **sectors** [1] - 147 :20 **see** [24] - 19 : 11 , 32 :5, 34: 19 , 34:23, 37:1, 43: 15, 65:2, 65: 24, 71 : 23, 72 :1, 72 : 22, 74 :2, 83: 19, 85: 24, 91 : 18, 127 : 18 , 127 : 19 , 129: 18 , 136 : 15, 141 :8, 142 : 10 , 143:8, 144:7 **seeing** [8] - 35 :2, 35:3, 65: 18 , 71 : 15, 73: 25, 118 : 19 , 119:6, 135 : 11 **seem** [3] - 118 :24 , 136 : 17 , 149: 12 **segment** [1] - 134:3 **selective** [ 15] - 26: 16, 26 : 24, 49 : 19 , 55: 13, 72 :3, 72 :4, 78: 20, 78 : 21 , 118 :22 , 118 : 23 , 119: 18 , 119 : 24 , 155:4, 155:5, 160 : 21 **self** [1] - 56:4 **self -** **serving** [1] - 56:4 **selfish** [1] - 131 :4 **Senator** [2] - 132 :8, 132 : 21 **senator** [1] - 130 : 10 **send** [1] - 13:6 **sense** [4] - 14 : 18 , 51 : 11 , 89 : 21 , 94 :24 **sensically** [1] - 160 : 12 **sent** [1] - 73:1 **sentence** [3] - 102 : 10 , 102 : 14 , 102 : 17 **separate** [1] - 142 :21 **serious** [1] - 50 :4 **seriously** [2] - 75:8, 144 : 16 **serve** [2] - 99:3, 147 : 16 **service** [4] - 90 : 19 , 97:1, 136 : 11 , 150 :21 **SERVICE** [2] - 8:22 , 9:3 **Service** [22] - 3:2, 3:2, 8: 17, 8: 18, 8:24 , 9:5, 9: 10, 12 :2, 24:20, 24:21 , 25 :1, 25:3, 25:4, 27:3, 76 :22 , 77:2, 78: 18 , 82 : 15, 135 : 14 , 158:25 **Services** [1] - 96 :22 **services** [3] - 78 : 17 , 85:22, 137 : 10 **serving** [3] - 56:4, 90:8, 134 :21 **session** [1] - 128 :22 **set** [7] - 16 : 10 , 23 : 10 , 81 :9, 94: 10 , 111 :22 , 117 : 16 , 162 :24 **seven** [2] - 84 : 16 , 91 : 19 **several** [ 13] - 17: 18, 22 :4, 44:9, 76 : 19 , 106 :21 , 106:22 , 120 : 10 , 135:7, 142 : 13 , 153:1, 159 : 19 , 161 :25 **Shakes** [1] - 53 :23 **shaky** [2] - 158 :6, 164 :22 **shape** [1] - 170 :22 **Shareholders** [2] - 48: 14, 48 : 19 **shareholders** [2] - 48:20, 48 :22 **shares** [1] - 165 : 12 **shed** [1] - 123 :5 **sheets** [2] - 47 :3, 47:7 **Shiprock** [2] - 135 :1, 136 : 14 **shooting** [1] - 113 : 19 **short** [3] - 88 : 18 , 145 :4, 150 : 17 **short -** **term** [2] - 88: 18, 145 :4 **shorthand** [1] - 173 : 10 **shortly** [1] - 11 :20 **show** [6] - 33 :3, 34:7, 34:9, 34: 10 , 35:7, 38: 19 **showed** [3] - 49 :21 , 63: 16, 71 :6 **shown** [2] - 22 :22 , 33:21 **shows** [3] - 35 : 10 , 40:8, 116 : 10 **shut** [2] - 120:25, 133 : 18 **side** [5] - 45 : 14, 105 :3, 133 : 14 , 133 : 15, 135:2 **Sierra** [5] - 70:9, 71 :25, 74 :6, 153 :5 **sign** [3] - 47:3, 47 :6, 47:7 **sign -** **in** [2] - 47 :3, 47:7 **signed** [5] - 47 :4, 69:7, 76:1, 91 :7, 129 : 10 **significant** [ 14] - 34:24, 55 : 17, 55 :20 , 66:9, 80:8, 80 : 11 , 80: 15, 93 : 16, 115 :1, 138 :22 , 146: 19 , 153 :21 , 155:21 , 158 :9 **significantly** [4] - 49: 18, 72 :23, 121 :3, 138 : 19 **similar** [2] - 104 : 13 , 119 :22 **simple** [1] - 41 : 14 **simplistically** [2] - 111 : 11 , 124:23 **simply** [ 12] - 11 : 12 , 13:8, 31 :20 , 41 : 15, 80:4, 100 : 15, 121 : 14 , 129 :7, 157 :5, 158 : 18 , 158 : 19 , 165:7 **single** [1] - 125: 15 **SIP** [46] - 7: 18, 7:20, 7:23 , 10:6, 15 : 17 , 16:7, 16:9, 16 : 10 , 16: 12, 16 : 13, 16 : 17 , 16:23, 17 :1, 17:2, 17:8, 17: 19 , 18:5, 19:8, 19: 10 , 20: 12, 20: 14, 20 : 15, 21 :5, 21 : 10, 21 : 11 , 21 : 14 , 21 :22, 22 : 13, 22 : 14 , 23:4, 23: 18 , 24:7, 24: 10, 24 : 13, 24 : 17 , 33: 14, 36 : 14, 37 : 18 , 39: 14, 41 :3, 41 : 12, 74:7, 122 : 12, 122 :20 **SIPs** [7] - 17 :5, 20:20, 22 :3, 22 : 10, 36: 18, 37 : 16, 122 :7 **sister** [1] - 61 :23 **Sister** [2] - 64 : 15, 64:21 **sisters** [4] - 62 : 16, 65:2, 67: 13 , 67: 19 **sit** [3] - 30 : 19 , 147 :20 , 148: 15 **site** [5] - 24:25, 42 :2, 42 :4, 111 : 13, 121 : 15 **site -** **specific** [2] - 111 : 13 , 121 : 15 **sitting** [2] - 82 :21 , 146 : 16 **situation** [4] - 53 :3, 69:1, 118 : 16, 131 : 13 **six** [6] - 19:2, 20 : 10 , 40: 12, 71 :8, 84: 17, 109 :5 **size** [2] - 118:25, 151 :2 **skies** [3] - 142 :3, 144 :7, 144 : 14 **skip** [1] - 144 : 11 **slide** [2] - 63 : 15, 63: 18 **slightly** [5] - 10: 13, 24:4, 95: 10 , 98: 17, 98:21 **Slota** [4] - 141 :4, 150 :1, 150 : 10 , 152 : 10 **SLOTA** [5] - 6:9, 150 :2, 150 :5, 150 : 10 , 150 : 12 **small** [3] - 90 : 16 , 92 :2, 147 : 19 **smaller** [1] - 142 :21 **smog** [3] - 71 : 19, 143 :23 **smoggy** [1] - 144:7 **smoke** [1] - 70 : 18 **SNCR** [44] - 26 : 17 , 27: 16, 27 : 19, 31 :6, 31 : 16, 49 :9, 55:25, 56:8, 78:20 , 80: 18, 80:23, 80 :24, 88 :3, 93:8, 93: 13 , 93: 16, 93: 18, 95 : 13, 98 : 11 , 98: 17, 100 :9, 102 : 16 , 107 :4, 107 :7, 110 : 15, 111 :5, 111 :20 , 112 :7, 114 :24 , 115: 13 , 115 : 15, 116: 12 , 120 :5, 121 :21 , 125 : 19 , 155:4, 155 : 17 , 155:20 , 155 :24 , 156:3, 156:8, 156 : 15, 157:8, 157: 18 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 24

**SNCRs** [2] - 120: 14 , 120 : 16 **so -** **called** [2] - 15 : 18, 16:25 **SO 2**  [4] - 21 : 17, 22 : 15, 86 : 14, 87 :2 **social** [1] - 55 :6 **societal** [1] - 66:8 **soil** [1] - 61 :21 **solar** [4] - 57 :5, 57 :9, 84:20, 89 :23 **solely** [4] - 28:9, 72 : 18, 100 :1, 104 :9 **solution** [1] - 116: 18 **solutions** [1] - 89: 20 **someone** [3] - 73:5, 154 :2, 154 :5 **someplace** [1] - 65:22 **sometime** [2] - 89: 13, 167 : 13 **sometimes** [4] - 37:21 , 142 : 11 , 154:6, 154 :7 **somewhat** [2] - 10: 11 , 28 : 12 **somewhere** [1] - 28: 15 **Sonntag** [4] - 47: 22 , 48:9, 48: 13 , 50:9 **SONNTAG** [6] - 4: 10 , 47:23, 48 :2, 48:3, 48:9, 48: 12 **soon** [2] - 92 : 11 , 115 :23 **sorry** [9] - 49 :9, 87:20, 100 :23 , 109:5, 129 : 17 , 129: 18 , 164 :3, 170 : 11 **sort** [6] - 32 :22, 100 :2, 100 :6, 100 : 11 , 127 :20 , 158:3 **sound** [1] - 169 : 12 **source** [ 12] - 17 : 13 , 40:6, 40: 18 , 40:22, 41 :1, 60:21 , 62 :8, 65: 15, 83 : 19, 83 :20 , 123 :6, 124 :9 **sources** [ 14] - 25: 10 , 40:8, 52 : 18 , 63:3, 89:24, 114 :6, 122 :22 , 123 :3, 123 :6, 124 :1, 124 :4, 125 :8, 125 :9 **south** [3] - 84: 16 , 133 : 15, 170: 19 **Southwestern** [1] - 3:2 **sovereignty** [1] - 63:25 **sparkling** [1] -144 : 14 **speaking** [1] - 61 :20 **specialized** [1] - 165 : 16 **specialty** [1] - 104:8 **specific** [ 10] - 23 : 16 , 43: 11 , 106 : 23 , 108 : 22 , 111 : 13 , 114 : 19 , 121 : 15, 122 : 25, 126:9, 168: 16 **specifically** [ 15] - 17: 20, 45 : 19, 64 :25, 79:9, 92 : 23 , 108 : 14 , 110 : 18 , 111 :5, 118 : 18 , 119:4, 139:3, 139 : 25, 154:1, 164 : 12 , 168:5 **specify** [1] - 124 : 17 **spell** [ 16] - 48:7, 50: 18, 54 : 11 , 56 : 16 , 58: 12, 61 : 12, 64 : 14 , 69: 24, 74 : 22, 130 :8, 132 : 16 , 134: 17 , 138 :7, 141 : 20 , 145 : 12 , 147:8 **spelling** [1] - 47:9 **spend** [2] - 52 :4, 68: 25 **spending** [1] - 52 : 11 **spent** [ 10] - 49 :4, 52 :2, 52 :6, 57 :5, 62 : 25, 68 : 23, 85 :21 , 104 :6, 104 :8, 116 : 15 **spin** [1] - 51 :8 **spiritual** [1] - 65 :3 **Sportsmen** [1] - 153 :4 **spot** [1] - 115: 17 **spouse** [1] - 150: 16 **SRC** [1] - 113 :9 **ss** [1] - 173:2 **St** [2] - 2:4, 2: 19 **stable** [1] - 85 : 12 **stage** [1] - 119 : 15 **stakeholder** [2] - 16:3, 135 : 16 **stamps** [1] - 143 :4 **stand** [7] - 15:9, 74:6, 74:7, 81 :20 , 132 :5, 139 : 11 , 148: 13 **standard** [8] - 80: 14, 116 : 23 , 118: 15, 118 : 24 , 119:3, 146 : 12 , 146: 13 , 168 : 20 **standards** [4] - 41 : 13, 46 :2, 66:22, 152 :5 **standing** [1] - 13 :20 **standpoint** [3] - 80:4, 80: 15, 161 :21 **Star** [1] - 102 :7 **start** [5] - 11 : 15, 37:23, 59 :7, 73: 11 , 101 : 17 **started** [5] - 91 :5, 91 : 11 , 92 : 15, 104 :24 , 108 :2 **starting** [8] - 20 : 16 , 60:24, 72 :7, 121 :2, 121 :4, 122 : 19 , 128 :20 , 140:24 **STATE** [3] - 1:1, 1:4, 173 :1 **state** [ 105] - 18: 15, 19: 17, 21 :9, 22 : 11 , 25:22, 27 :7, 27: 11 , 27: 16, 32 :20, 35 :7, 35: 17, 41 : 15, 43 :24 , 48:7, 48:21 , 49: 17, 50:6, 50: 18 , 54: 10, 56: 16, 56 :22, 56 :24 , 58:3, 58: 12 , 58: 17, 59:25, 60 : 10, 61 : 12 , 64: 13, 64 :24, 67 : 13 , 69:8, 69: 15, 69:23, 70:23, 72 :5, 72 : 16, 72 :24, 73 :23, 74 :7, 74:22, 82 :6, 86:25, 88: 12, 96 : 16, 101 : 19 , 102 :23 , 114:6, 120 : 15, 121 :25, 123 :9, 123 : 14 , 124 : 10 , 126:1, 126 : 17 , 126:25, 127 :1, 130 :7, 130 : 10 , 130 :25, 131 : 11 , 131 :22 , 132 :3, 132 : 16 , 132 : 19 , 132 :25, 133:4, 134 : 17 , 134:20 , 138 :7, 138 : 19 , 138 :25, 139:1, 139:6, 141 :20 , 142 :1, 142 :25, 143: 18 , 144 : 15, 145:3, 145 : 12 , 146:2, 146 : 12 , 146: 19 , 147 :8, 147 :20 , 148:7, 148 : 17 , 148:24 , 149 :3, 149 :9, 149 :20 , 149 :22 , 151 :6, 151 : 11 , 151 : 19 , 151 :23 , 152 :3, 162 :23 , 164:9, 168 : 16 , 170:21 , 170 :22 **State** [38] - 1: 18 , 8: 14 , 8:20 , 10 :4, 15: 16, 19 :6, 48:25, 66: 19, 86 :1, 98:2, 104 :3, 104 :4, 131 :5, 131 :8, 131 : 13 , 134:1, 135 : 12 , 135:24 , 136 :2, 136 :20 , 137 : 18 , 137:23 , 138 : 17 , 139: 10 , 139 :23 , 145:21 , 148 :8, 149 :4, 149 : 11 , 149 : 17 , 155: 12 , 155 : 13 , 158:4, 158 : 15, 158: 16 , 158 :23 , 164:23 , 168 :5 **state 's**  [4] - 49 :25, 139 : 10 , 157: 19 , 168 : 15 **state -** **passed** [1] - 146 : 12 **Statement** [2] - 8: 12 , 142 :7 **statement** [3] - 34 :4, 39: 14, 161 : 14 **statements** [2] - 110 : 16 , 165: 18 **States** [1] - 54 :24 **states** [24] - 15 :23 , 16:3, 16:22 , 20:21 , 22 :2, 22 :6, 22 :9, 23 :6, 23:9, 35:24 , 35:25, 36: 17, 36 : 18, 36 :24 , 37: 15, 39 :25, 56 :25, 58:3, 60: 13 , 83:23, 122 :5, 143 :3 **states '**  [1] - 123 : 10 **statewide** [1] - 147 : 17 **Station** [38] - 17 : 15, 26: 10, 27 :1, 27:20, 28:20, 35 :20, 38 :1, 52 :1, 52 : 17 , 59: 11 , 67:6, 70: 12 , 71 :3, 72 :2, 72 :8, 72 :25, 74: 10, 77 :22, 77 :23 , 84: 14, 84 : 17, 98 : 12 , 118 : 18 , 120:3, 121 : 14 , 123:25, 130 : 11 , 130:21 , 130 :22 , 131 : 10 , 131 : 16 , 131 : 19 , 132 :24 , 134:4, 136 :22 , 142 :7, 154 : 10 , 155:20 **station** [3] - 77 :22, 119 : 10 , 119: 11 **Station 's**  [1] - 90 :6 **stationed** [1] - 150 :21 **status** [3] - 37:2, 120 : 19 , 161 : 16 **stay** [3] - 52 :25, 81 :9, 144 : 13 **stayed** [1] - 150:22 **step** [6] - 66: 12 , 88: 15, 105 :22 , 105 :23 , 105:25, 142 :8 **STEPHEN** [1] - 2: 11 **steps** [2] - 105 :5, 106 : 10 **Steve** [1] - 130:9 **STEVE** [2] - 5: 16 , 130 :3 **stewardship** [1] - 62 :9 **stiffen** [1] - 118 : 15 **stiffening** [1] - 118 : 10 **still** [9] - 37:9, 39: 19 , 73:4, 74:7, 119: 15, 133 :2, 144 : 15, 163: 10 **stimulus** [1] - 85 :25 **stockholders** [1] - 62 :4 **stop** [3] - 57 :6, 57: 16, 64 :1 **stopwatch** [1] - 47: 19 **storage** [1] - 66: 14 **stormy** [1] - 65: 12 **straight** [1] - 51 :1 **strategies** [4] - 23 :8, 23: 12, 24 :7, 25:21 **strategy** [3] - 23 : 13 , 25:21 , 108 :6 **Stratvert** [1] - 12 :2 **STRATVERT** [1] - 3:4 **stream** [2] - 70:25, 93:22 **streams** [1] - 59 : 15 **strengthen** [1] - 75 :3 **strengthening** [1] - 55:1 **stricken** [3] - 161 :24 , 162 : 16 , 163:20 **strikes** [1] - 139 :6 **strip** [2] - 57 : 19 , 57:20 **strip -** **mined** [1] - 57:20 **strip -** **mining** [1] - 57: 19 **strong** [3] - 62 :2, 66:22, 85 :25 **stronger** [2] - 75 :7, 75:22 **strongly** [3] - 144 :25, 146 :24 , 155:8 **structure** [3] - 83 :25, 84:6, 84:9 **studied** [1] - 146 : 11 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 25

**studies** [2] - 108:3, 108 : 11 **study** [2] - 91 :1, 149 : 12 **studying** [1] - 90: 14 **stuff** [1] - 117 : 15 **subbituminous** [2] - 38:2, 38:6 **subject** [6] - 10 : 16 , 17: 14, 129 :22 , 141 : 12 , 164: 16 , 167 : 11 **submission** [1] - 165 :21 **submissions** [1] - 26:5 **submit** [5] - 37 :20, 47: 15, 69 :6, 158 : 16 , 162 :5 **submittal** [6] - 16 :9, 16: 13, 42 : 18, 80 : 16 , 107 :4, 123 :8 **submittals** [6] - 7: 14 , 106 : 13 , 106: 14 , 106 :21 , 106:22 , 109 : 10 **submitted** [32] - 10:20, 21 : 14, 22 :3, 22 :23, 23 :2, 24:23, 25:2, 37: 17 , 53:20, 54: 19, 77 : 19, 79 : 18 , 79:22, 101 :25, 107:6, 108 :25, 109:5, 113 : 12 , 122 :5, 122 :7, 128 :1, 128 : 16 , 129:8, 152 : 18 , 157: 16 , 158 :23 , 162 :1, 164 :21 , 165:21 , 168 :6, 168 : 10 , 170:2 **Submitted** [3] - 8:24 , 9:5, 9:9 **submitting** [1] - 109 :2 **subsequently** [2] - 39: 16, 94 : 17 **substances** [1] - 59:4 **subtracted** [1] - 112 :5 **successful** [1] - 122 : 15 **suck** [2] - 118 : 12 **Sue** [1] - 74 : 15 **suffer** [2] - 62 :24 , 143 : 14 **suffering** [2] - 62 : 17, 62 : 18 **sufficient** [2] - 24 :8, 155 : 12 **suggest** [2] - 164: 24 ,171 : 11 **suggests** [1] - 157 : 24 **Suite** [3] - 2: 19 , 3:5, 3: 11 **sulfur** [6] - 17 : 10 , 22 :5, 22 : 18 , 86:9, 86: 10, 94 : 14 **sulfuric** [1] - 94: 14 **summarize** [6] - 83: 13, 97 : 22, 104 : 16 , 107 : 21 , 110: 14 , 129 :7 **summarized** [1] - 109 : 11 **summarizes** [3] - 33: 18, 102 : 15, 152 :24 **summarizing** [1] - 13: 20 **summary** [7] - 23 :24 , 32 : 22, 53 : 20, 82 :25, 97: 25, 106 : 12 , 107: 13 **summer** [1] - 167 : 13 **sun** [2] - 57 :25, 60: 22 **superficial** [1] - 65:5 **superimpose** [1] - 63: 21 **supermarket** [2] - 151 : 18 , 151 : 22 **supplement** [1] - 15:9 **supplemental** [3] - 23:3, 25:3, 29 : 17 **supplied** [2] - 28:7, 29: 18 **supplier** [1] - 78 :5 **suppliers** [1] - 93 :20 **supplies** [3] - 85: 19, 131 :3, 137 :8 **supply** [1] - 133:8 **supplying** [1] - 133 :8 **support** [20] - 49:25, 56:7, 62 : 21 , 63:4, 63:8, 66: 22 , 67: 15, 77: 20, 79 : 23, 80 :1, 84: 11 , 85 : 22, 142 :4, 144 : 25, 145: 19 , 145 : 21 , 146: 23 , 159 :7, 160 : 21 , 167:23 **supported** [2] - 67:3, 157 :9 **supporting** [6] - 77: 25, 86 : 24, 87 :4, 144 : 16 , 158: 24 , 159 :5 **supports** [4] - 49:2, 55: 16, 56 :3, 78: 13 **supposed** [1] - 159 : 16 **Sur** [1] - 3: 16 **surprising** [1] - 169 :4 **surrounding** [2] - 36: 18, 123 : 10 **surrounds** [1] - 130 : 11 **survey** [1] - 49 :21 **surviving** [1] - 150 : 16 **sustainability** [1] - 62 :9 **sustained** [1] - 136 :8 **sustains** [1] - 68: 12 **svigil @** **nmag .** **gov** [1] - 2: 14 **sw ear**  [1] - 18 :9 **sw ings**  [1] - 65: 11 **sw itching**  [1] - 31 :5 **sw orn**  [29] - 18 : 11 , 48:4, 50: 15, 54:7, 56: 13, 58 :9, 61 :9, 64: 10, 69 :20, 74 : 19 , 81 : 17, 81 :20, 81 :22 , 82 :2, 96:9, 96 : 16 , 101 : 11 , 101 : 15, 103 : 14 , 130:4, 132 : 13 , 134: 14 , 138 :4, 141 : 17 , 145:9, 147 :5, 150 :6, 152 : 13 , 173 :9 **system** [3] - 84:22 , 115 : 15, 116:1 **systems** [1] - 62 :21 

## T

**T- as** **- in**  **- Tom** **-H-E-M I-G**  [1] - 82 :9 **Table** [4] - 33 :5, 33: 17, 35 : 10, 42 :22 **table** [4] - 33:22, 43:1, 123 : 18 **Tables** [1] - 42 :22 **tables** [3] - 33 :2, 34: 14, 51 :7 **tank** [1] - 145 : 17 **tanks** [1] - 93 : 10 **Taos** [2] - 3: 17, 153 : 13 **tax** [4] - 133:23, 134 :2, 134 :5, 137 :5 **taxes** [7] - 55 :3, 59:24, 85 : 18, 131 :1, 137 :2, 137 :4, 151 :25 **taxpayers '**  [1] - 57 :9 **Tech** [1] - 65 :21 **Technical** [1] - 8: 18 **technical** [40] - 10: 18, 10 :20, 14 :5, 37:24, 47 :2, 76:5, 79:22, 79 :25, 80 :3, 128 :1, 140 :20 , 140 :22 , 158:6, 160 : 13 , 160: 18 , 161 :3, 161 :4, 161 :6, 161 : 10 , 161 :20 , 161 :23 , 162 :23 , 163 :5, 163 :8, 163 : 11 , 163 : 14 , 163: 17 , 163 :23 , 164: 18 , 165 :3, 165 : 14 , 165 :20 , 166: 17 , 166 : 19 , 168:9, 168 : 18 , 168:21 , 169 : 19 , 169:20 **technically** [2] - 27: 17, 125 :6 **technicians** [1] - 59: 19 **technological** [1] - 155 :3 **technologies** [33] - 42 :24, 42 :25, 44 :9, 44: 16, 44 :22, 46 :1, 59: 10, 60 :3, 60:4, 60:8, 78:25, 79: 13, 80:9, 86:6, 89 :6, 90: 15, 90 :22, 91 : 13 , 93:1, 98: 16 , 100 :9, 105 : 14 , 105:24 , 106 :1, 106 :4, 111 :1, 114 : 14 , 116: 16 , 123 :1, 125 : 17 , 126 : 14 , 154: 19 **technology** [72] - 27: 12, 31 :5, 31 : 12, 31 : 16, 44 : 10, 44 : 11 , 44:21 , 49 :9, 49: 12, 49:20, 51 :25, 55 : 14 , 55: 16, 55 :25, 56 :3, 60:2, 60:3, 60 :5, 64 :4, 66:7, 72 :1, 72 :3, 78: 19, 79 : 10, 80 : 14 , 80: 18, 80 :23, 80 :25, 83:6, 86: 16 , 88:5, 92 : 18, 93 :8, 93: 13, 93: 16, 93 :20, 98 : 12 , 98:20, 102 :8, 106 :9, 107 :7, 113 :22 , 119 : 19 , 119:23 , 120 :5, 120 : 17 , 125 : 19 , 145:2, 148 :21 , 149:6, 149 : 14 , 155:4, 155:5, 155 :6, 155 :9, 155 : 17 , 155 :25, 156:2, 156:6, 156 :8, 156 :20 , 157:7, 158 :23 , 158:24 , 159 :5, 160 :22 , 161 :7, 171 : 13 **Technology** [7] - 17:6, 17:9, 22 : 18 , 23:21 , 26 :25, 27 : 19 , 102 :7 **teenagers** [1] - 71 : 15 **teleconference** [2] - 10: 13, 30 :5 **template** [1] - 108: 18 **ten** [1] - 95 :2 **tend** [2] - 14 :9, 151 : 14 **tender** [3] - 87 :8, 99:6, 109 : 14 **tends** [3] - 85:3, 116 : 17 , 151 :2 **term** [ 11 ] - 23 : 12 , 24:7, 25:20 , 25:21 , 66:24, 88 : 17, 88 : 18 , 88: 19, 141 :24 , 145:3, 145 :4 **terms** [25] - 31 :24, 32 :23, 38 : 15, 67 : 14 , 72 : 11 , 77 : 10, 78 : 10 , 78:24, 81 :2, 81 :4, 131 :2, 152 :23 , 154:3, 155 :2, 155 : 16 , 157:6, 158 :20 , 160: 18 , 161 : 10 , 161 : 14 , 164 : 10 , 164: 12 , 171 :3, 171 : 11 **testified** [23] - 18: 12, 48:5, 50: 16 , 54:8, 56: 14, 58 : 10, 61 : 10 , 64: 11 , 69 :21 , 74 :20 , 82 :3, 96: 10 , 101 : 16 , 110 :22 , 130:5, 132 : 14 , 134: 15, 138 :5, 141 : 18 , 145 : 10 , 147:6, 150:7, 152 : 14 **testify** [4] - 61 :24 , 81 : 12, 134 :22 , 167: 12 **testifying** [1] - 81 : 19 **testimonies** [2] - 71 : 12, 71 :24 **testimony** [99] - 10: 16, 10 :21 , 11 :21 , 13: 15, 13 : 18, 14 : 15, 15:3, 15:9, 15 : 13 , 16:1, 16: 16 , 17: 17, 19: 13, 20 :24, 22 :21 , 23: 17, 32 : 12, 77 : 19 , 78:1, 78:23 , 79:21 , 79:22, 80 :1, 82 : 16, 82 : 19, 82 :22, 83 : 14 , 87:22, 97 :5, 97:9, 97: 11 , 97 :22, 98 :9, 99:5, 100 : 14, 101 :24 , 102 :9, 102 :20 , 103:8, 103 : 12 , 103: 14 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 26

104 : 15, 104: 18 , 104 :25, 106: 12 , 107 : 12 , 107: 19 , 107 :22 , 109: 11 , 110 :3, 127 :4, 128 :1, 128 : 16 , 129:22 , 134 :6, 140 :20 , 140 :22 , 148:2, 160 : 13 , 160:24 , 161 : 12 , 161 : 19 , 162 :5, 162 : 13 , 162 :23 , 163:5, 163:9, 163 : 14 , 164:20 , 165 :3, 165 : 14 , 165 : 15, 165: 16 , 165 :20 , 166: 17 , 166 :20 , 166:22 , 166 :23 , 166:24 , 167 :2, 167 :4, 167 : 10 , 168 :4, 168 :9, 168 : 18 , 168 :21 , 168:24 , 169 :3, 169 : 16 , 169 : 19 , 169:20 , 169 :24 , 172 :3, 173:8, 173 : 10 , 173: 11 **TESTIMONY** [ 18] - 48:6, 50: 17 , 54:9, 56: 15, 58 : 11 , 61 : 11 , 64: 12, 69 :22, 74 :21 , 130 :6, 132 : 15, 134 : 16 , 138:6, 141 : 19 , 145: 11 , 147 :7, 150 :8, 152 : 15 **Testimony** [23] - 4: 11 , 4: 13 , 4: 15, 4: 17, 4: 19 , 4:21 , 4:23 , 4:25, 5:4, 5: 17, 5: 19, 5:21 , 5:23 , 6:4, 6:6, 6:8, 6: 10 , 6: 12 , 7: 15, 7: 16, 8:23 , 9:4, 9:7 **Texas** [1] - 65:21 **THE** [40] - 1:1, 1:4, 1:4, 32 : 16 , 48 :7, 48: 11 , 50 : 18, 50 :22 , 54:4, 54: 10 , 54: 14, 56: 16, 58 : 12, 58 : 16 , 61 : 12, 61 : 16, 64 : 13 , 64: 17, 69 :23, 70 :2, 74:22, 87 :24, 110 :5, 130 :1, 130 :7, 132 : 16 , 134 : 17 , 138:7, 138 : 11 , 140: 12 , 141 :20 , 145: 12 , 145 : 15, 147:8, 147 : 12 , 150:3, 150:9, 150 : 11 , 159: 11 **THEMIG** [ 19] - 5:6, 81 :21 , 82 :1, 88:7, 88:25, 89 :4, 90:5, 91 :7, 91 : 12 , 91 :21 ,92 :9, 92 : 22 , 93:1,

93:4, 93: 17 , 94:3, 94: 12, 95 :3, 95:24 **Themig** [14] - 8:23 , 78:1, 78:2, 78 :7, 81 : 12, 82 :6, 82 :8, 82 : 10, 82 : 24, 83 : 12 , 87: 19, 87 : 21 , 95 :21 , 95: 23 **themselves** [3] - 16:3, 136 :8, 143 :20 **therefore** [3] - 27 : 17 , 28: 14, 167 : 18 **they '** **ve** [10] - 72 : 13 , 72 : 15, 105 : 21 , 119 : 22 , 119: 24 , 132 : 22 , 133: 17 , 144 : 21 , 157: 13 , 157 : 24 **thick** [1] - 70: 17 **thicker** [2] - 142 : 12 **thinking** [2] - 60 : 15, 144 :1 **thinks** [1] - 133 :1 **third** [3] - 50 :6, 105 : 13 , 106:2 **thorough** [1] - 55 :8 **thousands** [2] - 144 : 18 **threaten** [1] - 133 :22 **three** [ 17] - 17:25, 25: 17, 47 : 19, 86 :3, 89: 18, 91 : 19, 94 : 13 , 104 : 11 , 106: 15, 111 : 14 , 120:3, 128:7, 129 : 16 , 133: 19 , 139 : 24 , 156: 14 **three -** **dimensional** [1] - 111 : 14 **three -** **minute** [1] - 47: 19 **three -** **year** [1] - 89 : 18 **threshold** [2] - 113 : 15, 121 :7 **throughout** [10] - 35: 16, 52 : 19, 62 : 16 , 65:2, 69:7, 69 : 15, 108 : 11 , 114: 11 , 125 :8 **throwing** [1] - 59: 16 **tie** [1] - 89 : 16 **timeline** [3] - 37:20 , 92 : 11 , 92 : 15 **timer** [1] - 47 : 19 **timing** [1] - 39:22 **TI MO** **THY** [1] - 2:9 **tin** [1] - 118 : 13 **TO** [1] - 1:4 **today** [28] - 11 :6, 15:4, 33: 10 , 48: 16, 48: 24, 54 : 18, 61 : 19 , 61 :25, 63 : 11 , 65 :4, 70:5, 70:7, 77 :6, 88:20, 104 :25, 107:3, 124 :24 , 135:7, 138 : 16 , 141 :1, 145 : 16 , 147:21 , 148 : 16 , 149: 10 , 150 : 12 , 152 :23 , 163 :2, 172 :3 **together** [8] - 69 :2, 96:24, 107 : 13 , 114:9, 141 :1, 149 : 19 , 159:25 **Tom** [1] - 82 :9 **tomorrow** [7] - 11 :6, 11 :9, 128 :9, 140 :22 , 140 :24 , 163:2, 171 :24 **ton** [ 12] - 43: 12 , 43: 14, 43 : 17, 46 :8, 46:9, 107 : 17, 121 :6, 156 :1, 156 :3, 156 :4 **tons** [3] - 49 : 14 , 107 : 16 , 155:22 **took** [7] - 41 : 15, 100 :1, 111 :2, 111 :20 , 112 :4, 123 :25, 149:5 **top** [2] - 115 : 19 , 146 :5 **top -** **down** [1] - 146 :5 **topic** [1] - 89:25 **topics** [1] - 97 :22 **torn** [1] - 126 : 17 **total** [9] - 43 :1, 49: 15, 86 :4, 89:5, 93:5, 94:5, 112 : 16, 112 :21 , 123:5 **totally** [2] - 57 : 12 , 57:24 **tourism** [4] - 70 :22 , 73:21 , 144 :4, 144 :5 **tourists** [3] - 144:7, 144 : 19 , 151 : 19 **toward** [3] - 63 :2, 92 : 17, 142 : 13 **towards** [5] - 69:2, 73: 13, 88 : 15, 125 : 11 , 171 : 12 **Townsend** [1] - 10:25 **toxic** [1] - 62 : 11 **track** [1] - 81 :9 **trading** [2] - 21 : 17 **traditional** [1] - 95 :6 **Trail** [1] - 1: 19 **trained** [1] - 111 : 15 **training** [1] - 63:8 **transcribed** [1] - 10:24 **transcript** [4] - 11 :2, 47:9, 173 :9, 173 : 11 **TRANSCRIPT** [1] - 1: 14 **transition** [5] - 63 :3, 63:4, 63: 12 , 68: 18, 171 : 12 **transitioning** [1] - 73: 12 **Transport** [3] - 15:21 , 16 :20, 20 : 17 **treated** [1] - 167:5 **tremendous** [6] - 130 :24 , 131 : 12 , 131 :20 , 132 :3, 133 :20 , 134:4 **trend** [1] - 94 :24 **tribe** [1] - 37 :3 **tribes** [3] - 15 :23 , 137 :5, 137 : 14 **triggers** [2] - 57 :1, 57:3 **troubled** [1] - 55: 19 **true** [5] - 72 :7, 72 : 12 , 73:4, 162 :22, 173 : 11 **truly** [1] - 124: 15 **truth** [1] - 63: 10 **try** [4] - 115 : 11 , 125 : 10 , 127:6, 162 : 12 **trying** [9] - 13 : 13 , 65:24, 92 :7, 92 :20, 104 : 12 , 153:25, 154 :8, 158 : 13 , 158: 19 **Tuesday** [1] - 30 :5 **turn** [6] - 46: 19, 46:20, 47 :1, 76:21 , 114 : 18 , 149:8 **turning** [1] - 102 :22 **TVA** [1] - 90:22 **two** [29] - 10 : 17, 28: 15, 50 :5, 53: 10, 54:20, 61 :2, 63:1, 79:2, 80:9, 84 :4, 86: 14, 86 : 16, 90 :7, 94:22, 98 : 16, 101 :5, 101 :6, 115 :2, 115 : 10 , 116 : 16 , 120:4, 121 :21 , 126:9, 128:6, 129 : 16 , 133: 13 , 139 :24 , 143:22 , 153 :9 **type** [5] - 123 : 13 , 123 : 14 , 123: 17 , 162 : 13 , 168:8 **types** [1] - 126 : 14 **typically** [2] - 106: 15, 117 :3 **typo** [1] - 102 : 13 **typographical** [2] - 29:7, 102 :5 

## U

**UHL** [61 ] - 4:4, 18 : 10 , 19: 19, 19 :21 , 19 :25, 20:4, 20:8, 20 : 13 , 20:25, 26 :7, 26: 11 , 26:23, 27 :24, 29 :2, 31 :8, 31 : 13 , 31 : 17, 31 :21 , 32 :2, 34:21 , 35:2, 35: 14 , 35:21 , 36:20, 36 :22, 36 :24 , 37:4, 37:7, 37 :9, 37: 12, 37 : 17, 38 :5, 38:8, 38: 13 , 38:21 , 38:24, 39 :3, 39: 11 , 40: 16, 40 :20, 41 :5, 41 : 10, 41 : 14, 41 :23 , 42 :5, 42 : 12 , 42 : 15, 42 : 18, 42 :22, 43 :3, 43:6, 43: 15, 43:20, 43:24, 44 :4, 44: 14, 45: 11 , 45 : 15, 45 : 17 , 45:20, 46 :4 **Uhl** [9] - 7: 15, 15 :5, 15:25, 19 : 17, 19 : 19 , 23:22, 26 :5, 26: 19, 27:21 **Uhl 's**  [1] - 17: 17 **ultimately** [3] - 89: 12, 155 : 10 , 158: 10 **um -** **hum** [2] - 113 : 16 , 116 :20 **unacceptable** [1] - 31 :7 **uncontrolled** [1] - 121 :8 **under** [26] - 10: 16, 16:7, 21 :22 , 47: 16, 47:20, 60 : 19, 77 : 12 , 82 :21 , 84 : 10, 88 :2, 91 : 12, 95 : 11 , 97 : 11 , 102 :20 , 127:1, 129 :22 , 141 : 12 , 141 : 14 , 153:8, 155:9, 155 :23 , 156:24 , 163 :24 , 165: 15, 168 : 17 **underestimating** [1]

- 28 : 13 **underground** [1] - 90: 17 **underlie** [1] - 46 :1 **understood** [1] - 43:9 **undertake** [1] - 79 :4 **undertaken** [1] - 78:8 **unemployment** [1] - 148 :9 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

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# 27

**unfortunate** [1] - 148 : 11 **unfortunately** [5] - 39:22, 53 :2, 54:20, 84:25, 116 :4 **unique** [2] - 16 :5, 135 :22 **Unit** [ 10] - 3: 17 , 84 :2, 84:4, 84:5, 90 :8, 112 :20 , 118:8, 120:4 **unit** [ 15] - 53:5, 90:23, 94 :7, 110 :7, 111 : 18 , 112 : 10 , 112 : 13 , 112 : 19 , 117 :3, 117 :21 , 117 :22 , 117:24 , 118 :3, 118 :4 **unit -** **by -** **unit** [1] - 112 : 10 **United** [1] - 54:23 **units** [ 14] - 27 :1, 63:1, 84:1, 85 :1, 90 :7, 108 :21 , 111 : 17 , 112 : 15, 112 : 17 , 114 :22 , 120:3, 120 :24 , 122 :4, 133: 19 **Units** [2] - 84:1, 84 :4 **University** [5] - 19 :6, 65:21 , 98 :2, 98:5, 104 :4 **unless** [1] - 60 :6 **unlike** [1] - 170: 19 **unquote** [1] - 157 : 23 **unreasonable** [1] - 53: 11 **unrelated** [1] - 52 : 24 **untimely** [1] - 162 :2 **unusual** [1] - 90 : 11 **up** [50] - 11 : 12, 11 : 13, 16 : 13, 30 : 19 , 36: 11 , 38 : 18, 38 :24 , 44: 10, 44 : 12, 45 :1, 50: 12, 52 :3, 57:7, 57:8, 58:20 , 59:3, 59: 17, 70 :5, 71 : 13, 71 : 15, 73 : 18, 81 :20 , 95: 17, 95 : 18, 100 :24 , 101 : 10 , 104: 13 , 109 :2, 111 : 11 , 111 :22 , 112 : 12 , 112 : 15, 114:22 , 115 :25, 117: 16 , 117 : 18 , 122 : 19 , 123 :21 , 124: 13 , 129 : 10 , 130:21 , 140 : 11 , 140:23 , 141 : 10 , 141 : 11 , 142 :1, 144 :24 , 151 : 14 , 153: 12 , 171 :5 **updated** [1] - 109 :6**updates** [2] - 107:7,

109 :8 **upgrade** [4] - 49: 16, 91 :5, 95:8, 118:5 **upgrades** [8] - 49 :5, 49: 18, 78 :8, 78: 11 , 86:3, 86: 22 , 88:5, 94: 21 **upper** [1] - 28 : 17 **urban** [1] - 75 : 16 **urea** [2] - 93 : 13 , 93: 21 **urge** [ 11 ] - 48: 24 , 80:2, 131 : 23, 134 :6, 137 : 16 , 137: 20 , 138 : 16 , 139:9, 144 : 20 , 144: 25, 146 : 24 **urges** [2] - 56 :1, 56 :3 **US** [2] - 8: 17 , 46 :7 **usage** [1] - 149 :2 **useful** [4] - 39 :3, 60:6, 88: 22 , 105 : 15 **USEPA** [ 11 ] - 8:4, 17: 24, 26 : 14, 26 : 17 , 28:2, 28:4, 28 :9, 28: 13, 42 :5, 43:6, 53:8 **USEPA 's**  [4] - 26: 11 , 27: 25, 28 :6, 28:23 **uses** [2] - 73 : 23 , 145 :2 **USFS** [2] - 8:8, 8: 10 **utility** [5] - 27 :8, 48: 21 , 83 :2, 133 :2, 133 :5 **Utility** [2] - 48 : 14 , 48: 19 **utilize** [4] - 17:1, 93:7, 93:9, 93 : 14 **utilizing** [1] - 28 :2 

## V **Valley** [2] - 135:1, 135 :2 **valuable** [1] - 161 :7 **value** [3] - 45 : 13 , 67: 23, 85 : 13 **values** [5] - 34 : 11 , 45: 13, 62 :9, 102 : 11 , 102 : 12 **variability** [1] - 95 : 11 **variables** [2] - 89: 16 , 91 : 23 **variation** [1] - 34 : 19 **variations** [1] - 119:1 **various** [ 18] - 59 :4, 59: 10, 78 : 25, 79 : 12 , 84:3, 90: 19 , 98:7, 108 :3, 108 :6, 109 :7, 110 :25, 111 : 15, 122 :7, 124 :9, 125 :2, 158 :7 **vast** [2] - 48:22 , 49:22 **Vatican** [2] - 68 :1, 68: 14 **Vaughan** [1] - 69 :8 **Veatch** [ 12] - 9:7, 79:3, 98: 14 , 101 :22 , 103 :5, 104 :2, 104 :6, 104 :22 , 108:1, 108:6, 110 :2, 113 : 11 **vendor** [4] - 28 :7, 28:8, 28: 13 , 43:7 **vendor -** **supplied** [1]

- 28 :7 **verbal** [1] - 11 : 10 **Verde** [2] - 90 :6, 131 : 12 **verified** [1] - 121 :23 **version** [2] - 18:2, 121 : 16 **versus** [7] - 31 : 16, 42 :2, 79: 17 , 155 :5, 155 : 17 , 155:23 , 157 :7 **vi a**  [2] - 168 :9, 168 : 19 **vi ability**  [1] - 90 :2 **vi able**  [1] - 72 : 17 **vi ce**  [2] - 78 :2, 82 : 12 **vi ce** **- president**  [2] - 78:2, 82 : 12 **vi ew**  [5] - 58 :24 , 124 :25, 146:2, 153:9, 157 :23 **vi ewed**  [1] - 31 :6 **vi ews**  [2] - 58 :20 , 166 :4 **Vigil** [2] - 163 :8, 169 : 10 **VIGIL** [4] - 2: 11 , 163 : 12 , 164:2, 169: 11 **Virginia** [3] - 74: 13, 74: 16, 74 :24 **VIRGINIA** [2] - 5:3, 74: 18 **vi rtually**  [1] - 52 : 14 **Visibility** [3] - 15 :21 , 16:20, 20 : 17 **vi sibility**  [68] - 22 : 19, 25:7, 31 : 11 , 31 :25, 32 :20, 32 :25, 33 :3, 33:7, 34:4, 35 :8, 36 :1, 45: 13, 45 : 14, 49 :2, 49:6, 49: 13 , 51 : 13, 51 : 14, 51 : 16, 51 : 18 , 52 :7, 52 : 15, 52 :24, 53:1, 53:5, 53 : 14 , 53: 16, 57 :7, 59:2, 81 : 10, 88 : 13, 100 : 12 , 105 : 17 , 106:8, 110:7, 111 :6, 111 :23 , 112 :1, 112 :3, 112 :5, 112 :6, 113 :1, 113 :2, 113 :7, 113 : 10 , 113: 12 , 113 : 13 , 113: 18 , 114 : 11 , 114:23 , 122 :21 , 124: 15, 124 :23 , 125: 11 , 125 : 15, 143:24 , 144 :3, 144 : 19 , 151 :9, 153 :8, 153 : 17 , 153 : 19 , 153:20 , 153 :24 , 157: 11 , 158 :21 **vi sible**  [1] - 126 :23 **vi sit**  [1] - 75: 17 **VOLKERDING** [20] - 2:8, 36 :9, 36 :21 , 36:23, 37 :1, 37:6, 37:8, 37: 11 , 37: 13, 37:22, 38 :7, 38: 10, 38: 14, 38 :23, 39 :2, 39:8, 39: 12 , 39: 18, 40: 19, 40 :24 **VOLUME** [1] - 1:24 **vo luntary**  [1] - 22 :4 **Voters** [4] - 54 : 16 , 54:23, 55 : 11 , 56 :1 **vu lnerable**  [1] - 66: 16 

## W

**W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S** [1] - 54: 13 **wade** [1] - 161 :5 **wager** [1] - 161 :5 **waking** [1] - 71 : 13 **walk** [3] - 110: 11 , 114 : 16 , 114: 19 **walking** [1] - 67: 18 **wants** [1] - 152 :1 **warmer** [1] - 65 : 14 **warming** [2] - 52 :21 , 75:8 **Washington** [4] - 21 : 15, 66 : 19, 146 :3, 146 :5 **waste** [1] - 66 : 14 **wasting** [1] - 158:9 **watched** [2] - 56:20 , 57: 19 **water** [6] - 61 :21 , 62 :2, 66:8, 68 : 10 , 142 :2, 143 : 15 **Water** [1] - 130 : 14 **Waterflow** [1] - 135 : 19 **watersheds** [1] - 68:6 **weakening** [1] - 67 :5 **weather** [2] - 65 : 13 , 66:1 **web** [1] - 24:25 **week** [3] - 10 : 14 , 13: 16, 26 :2 **weeks** [2] - 60: 16, 142 : 13 **weight** [7] - 164 : 18 , 164 :25, 165:8, 165 :23 , 166:2, 167:6, 168 : 13 **weirding** [1] - 65 : 17 **welcome** [3] - 47 : 14 , 61 : 17, 101 :4 **welfare** [1] - 159 : 17 **well -** **being** [1] - 144 :2 **West** [4] - 3: 10 , 22 :2, 35: 16, 65 :22 **Western** [15] - 3: 16, 12 :7, 15:22 , 16:3, 16:5, 20: 18 , 22 :6, 22 :9, 24:23 , 25: 16, 30:24, 35 :25, 39 :25, 152 :25 **wet** [1] - 65: 12 **Wheeler** [1] - 153 : 13 **whereas** [3] - 116 : 12 , 121 :4, 121 :9 **whole** [7] - 65 :4, 94: 13, 112 : 18 , 126:1, 128 :9, 132 :3, 135 : 16 **wide** [3] - 111 : 18 , 112 :7, 119 :1 **WildEarth** [5] - 3: 14 , 12 :9, 31 :1, 99 :23 , 153 :6 **Wilderness** [4] - 22 :1, 153 : 14, 153 : 15 **wilderness** [3] - 51 : 15, 100 : 13 , 144: 10 **Wildlife** [4] - 8: 18 , 24:21 , 25 :4, 158 :25 **WILLIA MS**  [5] - 4: 14 , 54:3, 54:6, 54 : 12 , 54: 15 **Williams** [3] - 54:2, 54: 12, 56 : 10 **willing** [2] - 50:24, 73: 16 **win** [1] - 53:3 **wind** [5] - 57 :5, 57: 10, 58 :1, 84:20, 89:23 

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# 28

**wise** [1] - 88 : 18 **withdrawn** [2] - 39: 16, 39 : 18 **withdrew** [1] - 40 :3 **witness** [2] - 81 : 12, 87:8 **WITNESSES** [1] - 4:3 **witnesses** [ 19] - 10: 18, 11 :20, 13 :24 , 15:3, 18:7, 79 :2, 81 : 16, 81 : 19, 109 : 15, 126 : 10 , 127:9, 127 :25, 128:5, 128:6, 128 :8, 129 : 16 , 160:5, 173 :8, 173 : 12 **woefully** [1] - 142 : 15 **Women** [4] - 54: 15, 54:23, 55 : 11 , 56 :1 **wondered** [1] - 32 :21 **wondering** [1] - 159 :21 **woodburning** [2] - 170 : 17 **words** [2] - 116 : 14, 125 : 10 **Worker** [1] - 69 : 12 **workers** [2] - 63:9, 136 :22 **world** [1] - 63 : 12 **worse** [1] - 53:7 **worst** [4] - 24 :6, 35: 11 , 40 : 17, 59 : 12 **worth** [1] - 126 :23 **worthwhile** [1] - 137 :22 **worthy** [1] - 156 : 18 **WRAP** [3] - 81 :5, 81 :9, 124 :2 **wrecked** [1] - 57 :21 **wrestling** [1] - 126 :22 **writing** [3] - 47: 15, 53:21 , 54 : 19 **written** [14] - 11 : 11 , 13:9, 13: 18 , 15:9, 15:25, 19 : 12, 20 :23 , 47:23, 53 :21 , 82 : 15, 118 : 15, 128: 16 , 129 :7, 172 :6 **wrote** [1] - 50 :25 **Wyoming** [1] - 120 : 11 

## Y

**year** [27] - 35 :6, 49: 14, 61 :2, 85: 16, 89: 18, 89 : 19, 98 : 16 , 98:21 , 100 :4, 107 : 16 ,

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# 29

108 : 15, 131 :1, 137:2, 137 :8, 137 : 10 , 143:7, 143 : 12 , 144: 18 , 144 : 22 , 151 : 12 , 151 : 13 , 151 : 17 , 154 : 15, 154: 23 , 155 : 23 , 169: 19 **years** [45] - 19 :2, 20: 10, 20 : 19, 34 :8, 34: 25, 40 : 11 , 40 : 12 , 49: 23, 56 : 20, 57 : 13 , 60: 20, 61 :2, 80:22, 83:3, 88: 14 , 88: 19, 88: 21 , 88 : 23, 90 :20 , 90: 23, 91 : 19, 92 :2, 92 :3, 92 :4, 94 : 13 , 94: 16, 95 :2, 98:6, 103 :5, 104 :2, 104 :6, 104 :9, 108 :2, 119 :7, 125 :2, 131 : 17 , 134 : 21 , 134: 25, 135 : 24 , 136: 17 , 146 :9, 146 : 15, 150: 18 **yellow** [1] - 70 : 18 **yesterday** [3] - 65 :9, 128 : 17 , 152 : 17 **yesterday 's**  [1] - 152 : 22 **yi eld**  [1] - 53 :1 **yo ung**  [2] - 35 :5, 71 : 14 **yo urself**  [1] - 129 :24 

## Z

**zero** [5] - 51 : 20 , 52 :8, 52 : 12 , 117 :24 , 118 :3 **zone** [1] - 143 :20

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# 174

STATE OF NEW MEXICO BEFORE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD

No . EIB 11

- 01 (R) IN THE MATTER OF THE PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN FOR REGIONAL HAZE

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BE IT REMEMBERED that on the 2 nd day of June , 2011 , this matter came on for hearing before the Environmental Improvement Board , taken at the San Juan College , Room 7103 , 4601 College Boulevard , Farmington , New Mexico , at the hour of 9: 08 a.m.

VOLUME 2

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# 175

A P P E A R A N C E S The Hearing Officer : FELICIA ORTH New Mexico Environment Department 1190 St . Francis Drive Harold Runnels Building Santa Fe , New Mexico 87501 The New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board : DEBORAH PEACOCK GREGORY H. FULFER JAMES R. CASCIANO JOHN MICHAEL VOLKERDING TIMOTHY L. MORROW JEFFREY W. BRYCE ELIZABETH RYAN STEPHEN VIGIL Assistant Attorney General Civil Division Office of the Attorney General Post Office Drawer 1508 Santa Fe , New Mexico 87504

- 1508 ( 505 ) 827

- 6040 svigil @ nmag . gov

For New Mexico Environment Department : BILL GRANTHAM Office of General Counsel New Mexico Environment Department Post Office Box 5469 1190 St . Francis Drive Suite N- 4064 Santa Fe , New Mexico 87502

- 5469 ( 575 ) 779

- 1627 bill . grantham @ state . nm . us

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# 176 A P P E A R A N C E S ( Continued ) For Public Service Company of New Mexico and Southwestern Public Service Company : RICHARD L. ALVIDREZ MILLER STRATVERT PA Attorneys at Law 500 Marquette , Northwest Suite 1100 Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102 ( 505 ) 824

- 4737 ralvidrez @ mstlaw . com For San Juan Coal Company : CHARLES E. ROYBAL Manager of Energy Coal Legal BHP Billiton 300 West Arrington Suite 200 Farmington , New Mexico 87401 ( 505 ) 598

- 4358 charles . ce . roybal @ bhpbilliton . com

For M-S-R Public Power Agency : LOUIS W. ROSE MONTGOMERY & ANDREW , PA Attorneys at Law Post Office Box 2307 325 Paseo de Peralta Santa Fe , New Mexico 87504

- 2307 ( 505 ) 982

- 3873 lrose @ montand . com

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# 177

I N D E X PAGE WITNESSES : WILLIAM SHARER Direct Testimony 184 THOMAS C. TAYLOR Direct Testimony 187 JOSEPH R. GONZALES Direct Testimony 190 JAMES C. HENDERSON Direct Testimony 193 ELOISE BROWN Direct Testimony 197 GORDON GLASS Direct Testimony 202 MIKE EISENFELD Direct Testimony 205 DEANNA COLLINS Direct Testimony 207 JAMES CRAWFORD Further Direct Testimony 210 BILL HAGLER Direct Testimony 212 DOYLE MEYER Direct Testimony 214

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# 178 I N D E X ( Continued ) PAGE WITNESSES : JOHN CLINE Direct Examination by Mr . Roybal 217 Examination by the Board 227 Redirect Examination by Mr . Roybal 234 Cross Examination by Mr . Grantham 234 Further Examination by the Board 235 NORMAN BENALLY Direct Examination by Mr . Roybal 239 MARGARET MC DANIEL Direct Testimony 245 JOE ROGERS Direct Testimony 247 JOSH ORTEGA Direct Testimony 249 LUCINDA Y. BENNALLEY Direct Testimony 251 CLAYTON BENALLY Direct Testimony 255 EUGENIA QUINTANA Direct Testimony 259 CONSTANCE LOUISE FALK Direct Testimony 265

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# 179 I N D E X ( Continued ) PAGE WITNESSES : RUDY MOYA Direct Testimony 268 DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS Further Examination by the Board 276 Further Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 286

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# 180

E X H I B I T S ADMITTED SAN JUAN COAL COMPANY : A. Direct Testimony of Norman Dean Benally 240 B. Direct Testimony of John R. Cline 219 PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO : A. ( In rebuttal ) Public Health Analysis of Air Emissions Impacts from the San Juan Generating Station ( SJGS ), Farmington , New Mexico , June 1, 2011 289

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# 181

MS . ORTH : All right . Good morning . My name is Felicia Orth . I'm the Hearing Officer appointed by the Environmental Improvement Board to conduct a hearing in the matter of proposed revisions to the State Implementation Plan for regional haze , docketed by the Board administrator as EIB 11-01.

We ' re re convening in this matter this morning . We had most of the technical testimony yesterday in Santa Fe and some public comment . We ' ll hear more technical testimony today and accept additional public comment . The Board may choose to deliberate on this matter at the close of the record , which we expect to be today . Testimony and comment is taken under oath . It is subject to cross - examination and questioning , particularly by the Board .

The proceedings today are being recorded and transcribed by Cheryl Arreguin of Kathy Townsend Court Reporters . Please contact Ms . Arreguin directly if you 'd like a copy of the transcript . It also becomes a public record available for review once it 's been received in the office of the administrator .

Counsel -- I see Mr . Alvidrez here . We ' re not in our usual places .

But let me know that you ' re here ,

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# 182

Mr . Alvidrez .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes . For the record , Rick Alvidrez on behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you .

Mr . Grantham ? MR . GRANTHAM : Bill Grantham with the New Mexico Environment Department .

MS . ORTH : Okay . We have Mr . Rose . MR . ROSE : Yeah . Louis Rose with

-- representing M-S-R Public Power Agency .

MS . ORTH : Okay . And Mr . Roybal . MR . ROYBAL : Good morning , Madam Hearing Officer . Charles Roybal for BHP Billiton and San Juan Coal Company .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you . And I don 't believe Mr . Schlenker

- Goodrich was joining us today .

Am I wrong about that ? No . All right . As I understand it , counsel , we ' re going to begin with technical testimony from San Juan Coal

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# 183 Company . MR . ALVIDREZ : Madam Hearing Officer , at the pleasure of the Board , I do note that we have some elected officials here this morning that are interested in giving public comment . I don 't know -- I understand

some of them have some time limitations . I don 't know if you 'd like to consider hearing from them as an initial matter as opposed to beginning the technical testimony . I just note that for your information .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Alvidrez . Actually , we often do that . Board -- I'm happy to do that . The Board is happy to do that .

So let 's do that first . Let 's take some public comment , particularly from those with time constraints .

Yes . Thank you , sir . MR . SHARER : From here or down there ? MS . ORTH : You have a nice loud voice . THE REPORTER : No . Down here . MS . PEACOCK : I guess I'm going to state an initial co mment .

The Environmental Improvement Board

-- we wanted to travel here to Farmington so that we could get comment from everyone here in Farmington . It 's

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# 184 important that we show up at meetings in the location that 's affected .

And I have to tell you that your river walk is really beautiful . I walk ed a long that last night . I feel like home .

So thank you for coming here for testimony and comment . WILLIAM SHARER having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . SHARER : All right . It 's William Sharer , S-H-A-R-E-R. I'm state senator from District 1, which is Farmington and a little bit outside the city limits . Not quite all of the city , but most of the city and a little bit out of it .

I'm here today as Senator Sharer , but also as

a resident of Farmington who was -- I was born in Albuquerque , but I essentially grew up here in Farmington .

I can remember when you could not see Shiprock , the actual rock , from Farmington High School because of the haze . It was a frequent occurrence .

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# 185 Today if you cannot see Shiprock from the top of 20 th Street outside Farmington High School , it 's because of all of the dust that blew in from Arizona and California and China . It has nothing to do with the power plants . The power plants have cleaned up dramatically over those 30

- plus years .

Clearly some of the testimony that I' ve heard and just the comments that I' ve heard in the past relate to the poor quality of the air around here , but when you compare 19 76 with 2011 , wow , what a difference . And I'm

one that actually saw it . I'm one that was disgusted by what I saw in '76. But love living in San Juan County today , because this is a great place with a great environment .

We all want clean air and clean water , everybody here , but there 's a balance , because we also want the lights to come on when we flip the switch . Most of the people in San Juan County , in fact , want a good job . They don 't want government assistance . They want a vibrant economy where they can work .

And the jobs that are produced by the power plants and the associated coal mines are great jobs . They ' re high

- paying jobs with great benefits . They ' re a great economic engine for not only San Juan County but the entire State of New Mexico .

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# 186

So where 's that balance ? We could have perfectly clean air and clean water and freeze to death in the dark . I think that 's bad planning . Of course , we could have the most brilliant lights in the world and not be able to breathe and just choke to death . That 's bad planning , too .

There is a balance , and I think that the state plan achieves that balance . And so I'm here to support that state plan , not only because it 's right for individual human beings , but it 's right for the economy , it 's right for our nation . Energy is what makes modern life liveable , and if we are willing to shut down energy , then we ' re willing to shut down modern life .

Look at the machinery that you have right here to record this . If we decide to turn off the power plants across the nation , we ' re going to go back to quills , which in some cases might be better , because we produce less paper . But we also have no lights , we have

no electricity for our computers , we have no communication .

In fact , we ' ll live in caves in very short order if we continue down this path of clean air , clean water versus -- it 's the only goal and there is no balance . So let 's look for that balance , let 's achieve that balance , let 's keep those good jobs , let 's keep the

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# 187 economic engine , and still achieve clean air and clean water . And that 's what the current SIP , I think , does .

That 's the end of mine . I also have a statement here . Representative James Strickler was going to come today . He can 't. He sent this letter . And I don 't know who to give it to or what to do , but there you go .

I' ll give you one of my business cards . And with that , if you have any questions of

me , I'd be glad to answer them .

MS . ORTH : Thank you . MS . PEACOCK : Thank you . MS . ORTH : Board questions ? MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . MS . RYAN : Thank you very much . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Senator Sharer . Are there others with time constraints this morning ? Sir . THOMAS C. TAYLOR having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name for me , please .

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# 188

MR . TAYLOR : My name is Thomas C. Taylor , T-H-O-M-A-S T-A-Y-L-O-R.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . TAYLOR : I'm a state representative from this area . I represent portions of the City of Farmington north to the Colorado border .

I' ve been a resident of Farmington for 63 years . And I certainly have watched what 's gone on . I

won 't repeat anything that 's been said earlier .

I think the one comment that I want to make is that it seems like the process that we have in place for environmental improvements oftentimes deal with insignificant issues at all cost . And it 's a problem in

an economy especially like we have today . I think it 's important that we concentrate on significant issues , rather than minimize the amount of money that we have to spend on those by spending them on insignificant issues .

And I say it 's insignificant for this reason . You know , PNM just three or four years ago had $ 320 million worth of improvements to the San Juan Generating Station . In the area of visibility , they reduced the NO x 

## emissions by 44 percent , SO 2 

## emissions by 71 percent and particulate by 70- something , as well . A huge improvement with those items that cause visibility issues in the area .

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# 189

It 's my understanding that the improvements that are -- that we ' re facing with this issue today will not be visible , when we ' re talking about a visible -- a visibility requirement . I think that 's why I call it insignificant . If it 's going to be significant , then it 's worth spending money on . Otherwise , it is not .

It 's my contention that we should not do anything , because PNM has already taken that action by spending the money and improved the visibility tremendously in the process that they did and , along with that , achieved a mercury standard that I don 't think is matched by any other coal

- fired plant in the country . So I think it 's important we consider that in the process of our environmental deeds in this country . It 's important that we make sure we have a clean environment , but it 's also important that we focus our energies on those things that are the greatest of our problems in the process of doing that .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Representative Taylor . Are there others with time constraints this morning ? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Good morning , ma ' am , members of the Board .

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# 190 Commissioner Jim Henderson will be arriving . We pulled him out of a meeting to get here . He will be under a time constraint . He should be here within the next few minutes , and I'm not sure if you can accommodate him .

MS . ORTH : Yes . UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : Okay . Thank you . MS . ORTH : Is there anyone else with a time constraint or anyone else who is willing to make a comment while

-- before Commissioner Henderson comes ?

Please , sir . MR . GONZALES : Good morning . THE REPORTER : Would you raise your right hand , please . JOSEPH R. GONZALES having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . GONZALES : Joseph R. Gonzales , G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-S.

I'm a retiree from San Juan Generating Station . I was the operations manager for several years , and I'm familiar with the environmental up grades

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# 191 that they ' ve made .

What I wanted to talk to you about is totally different from what you ' ve heard so far . I'm going to talk about the costs to the people in regard to their monthly bills . People have said , hey , it 's only $ 85 a year if we make the big jump on this environmental up grade . What 's $ 85 a year ?

Well , since I retired , I' ve been able to work with elderly people , hospice people . I'm a volunteer . I spend a lot of time with folks . And I' ve had the opportunity to stand in the state welfare office in line to get lighting paid , food stamps , fill out papers , for people that don 't have $ 85 a year , because some people think , wow .

Also , we could build the economy , we ' ll throw 10 million , 50 million , 100 million . Hey , 7 00 million , let 's talk about real money , you know . And then people just have to pay this $ 85 a year , and it 's okay , because they can handle it .

Well , I'm only here to talk about those people who don 't and can 't handle it , you know . It 's really them that are important to me . So I see the plan presented by PNM as a great alternative .

Finally , there 's a time and place where there 's choices , choices that can be good and actually

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# 192

make a difference and also solve the problem . Normally it 's not that way . Normally they ' re too difficult . There 's too many fights going on between the two sides .

But in this case , it 's clear

-- it 's clear er to me than maybe some -- that in regard to the bigger picture , what our past mayor , Tom Taylor said , and Bill Sharer , I agree , there 's a lot of information , technical , you ' ll hear all that stuff , but there 's a lot of people the difference between $ 11 a year and $ 85 a year is big .

And it 's not just $ 85 a year , because PNM has asked for rate increases , and so if they ask for 21 percent and get 11, then next year they ask for some

more . It keeps adding up . And when you have your parents in the 80 s and 90 s and you see some of these folks , and you know how much of a struggle it is , but if you go to that state welfare office and you line up with all those other people

-- people in this room don 't have to go there much , but in my case , I do .

So that 's all I want to say , is wanted to talk for the people that can 't talk for themselves .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Gonzales . MR . TAYLOR : Dr . Henderson just walked in . He ' ll be here in

-- well , I think a second or two .

MS . ORTH : All right .

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# 193

MR . HENDERSON : Good morning . THE REPORTER : Would you raise your right hand for me , please . JAMES C. HENDERSON having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : And would you state and spell your full name .

MR . HENDERSON : Yes . Dr . James C. Henderson . Did you get that ? THE REPORTER : Would you spell the last name . MR . HENDERSON : H-E-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . ORTH : Whenever you ' re ready

-- MR . HENDERSON : Ready ? MS . ORTH : -- please make your statement . MR . HENDERSON : Thank you . Well , good morning , and thank you for allowing me the time to speak .

And I identified myself , and I'm chairman pro tem of the San Juan County Commission . And today I'm here to voice my concern in regards to the issue of regional haze as related to the state 's implementation plan of which we fully support .

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# 194

As you know , in New Mexico , coal

- and natural gas - fired power provides more than 70 percent of the electricity needed by more than a million customers .

I would be remiss if I did not recognize the efforts PNM h as made in its implementation of renewable energy to meet state requirements . However , even with this implementation , coal and natural gas will continue to provide most of the electricity to meet the demands and needs for the customer .

I also believe that the efforts the plant has made in emissions reductions , which out performs the set limits and health

- based emission standards , is an indicator to the reasons why adopting the state 's plan is reasonable .

I feel it is important that the EIB consider a fair and balanced approach and look closely at the

over all impact that this decision has on the economic status , quality of life of its residents and the future welfare of jobs that accompanies such a decision .

I want to say , too , that I don 't know if you intend to do an impact

-- economic impact study , but I

can tell you under the EPA side , and I' ve got a US senator that wrote them , saying that anything that was done , any study , BART whatever , should include the economic impact on the community .

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# 195

And they replied and said yes , that should be included . But I don 't hear people talk a lot about the impact . The state 's plan brings a balance and fairness . For example , the state proposal would further reduce the plant 's emissions of NO x 

## by 20 percent , and SO 2 

## limits would also be reduced by 20 percent . In addition , the state 's proposal would cost customers seven times less than that of the EPA 's proposal .

It is for that reason that the Environmental Improvement Board should adopt the draft State Implementation Plan as proposed by the New Mexico Environment Department . We support this plan because it strikes the appropriate balance between minimizing cost to the customer and further protects the environment .

We do not support the federal plan as it would increase the average PNM residential customer 's electricity bill seven times more than the state 's plan . And furthermore , the impact to local governments , schools , et cetera , would also create even a greater financial strain in already woeful budgets .

I think we ' ve got to get this into a balance and understand that if you ' re looking from the outside , and we ' re looking at economic development , don 't think for a minute that a site locator

-- they send the big

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# 196 companies on location out , they look very careful ly at what 's happening in your state , and we can 't be very proud of what 's happening in the State of New Mexico .

So I just mention that . From an employment standpoint , the impact would be even more catastrophic . We ' re just estimating . I hope you folks will make that more certain . An estimated 4, 000 jobs has already been lost in this county over the past three years .

Now , that 's what I'm getting to . We can 't stand that . And we ' ve got both of those fire

-- coal

- fired power plants out there under attack , and

we ' ve got to get somewhat reasonable , or you ' re going to have such an impact on this community that we won 't be able to recover .

The San Juan Generating Station and the San Juan Coal Mine that supplies fuel to the generating station are major employers in the Four Corners and contribute to the economic health of both the state and the region . The power plants in San Juan County are our two largest taxpayers . The San Juan plant purchases an estimated $ 30 million in materials and supplies each year and operates approximately 12 2 million in contracts for outside services .

Our c oncern for the federal plan is that it is

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# 197 only expected to perceivably improve visibility in one of sixteen parks and wilderness areas , which given the cost is not reasonable .

In conclusion , I ask the Environmental Improvement Board strongly consider the state 's plan . As a local government , we are simply asking for balance , fairness and consideration to all of the impacts this decision will have .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Dr . Henderson . Is there anyone else who would like to make a public comment before we hear from San Juan Coal Company ? Ma ' am . ELOISE BROWN having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . BROWN : Eloise , E-L-O-I-S-E, Brown . THE REPORTER : And would you speak loudly . Thank you . MS . BROWN : Good morning , everybody .

Okay . Dooda Desert Rock is an ad hoc Navajo

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# 198 public interest

-- Navajo public interest association that has formed in December of 2006 in response to an invasion of the residents of Chaco Rio and Ram Spring s

area by agents of a large corporation that was engaged in exploratory activities on the lands of the Navajo members . Association members confronted the corporation in court . Can you guys hear me ? Okay .

And since then , Dooda Desert Rock has consistently advocated for the interests of the Navajo against corporate interests , of their own government , where action has been proposed or taken to injure the public health and welfare of the people of the area .

The core problem . Dooda Desert Rock joins others , notably those who want to return to the Four Corners area to pristine air quality , as befits it , and those who want to make the area attractive for visitors . People do not want to see Shiprock , the Four Corners Monument , Ute Mountain , Mesa Verde and other attractions of the area .

There is a serious discussion of the possibility of making the Shiprock and its surrounding

area a new state park , but there is general recognition that existing air quality mars the attractiveness of the

area .

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# 199

There is a bigger problem than that . Air pollution and regional haze are only symptom of larger problems . I will return again and again until someone listens and responds to the documentation that tells us that the haze we are talking about is , in fact , part of the public health hazard .

The fact that the Four Corners Power Plant and the San Juan Generating Station endanger the health of the Navajos was documented in July , 2006 report of the United States Geological Survey , identified as an air quality issue for the proposed Desert Rock Power Plant by the San Francisco office of the Environmental Protection Agency , with follow

- up recommendations that were ignored by the Bureau of Indian Affairs in handling the air permit , the confirmed

-- and confirmed by the

-- by a professional paper of seven academics in a re search article in the Journal of Environmental and Public Health , 2010 .

Despite the USGS report , a warning by the regional EPA office and confirmation of the public health hazard , no agency of the United States or the State of New Mexico has paid attention to the issue and done follow

- up queries to the Shiprock Indian Health Service hospital to confirm the situation for action .

Dooda Desert Rock filed a discrimination

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# 200 action against Environmental Protection Agency for failure to act on its knowledge of the health risk to Navajos , and its response -- and not only Navajos , but people live

-- that live in the area -- and its response

was that it can discriminate against Navajo under Title VI of the United States Civil Rights Act of 19 64 because , although it requires the agency to deal with the private persons who discriminate , the law does not prohibit its act s of discrimination .

The agency 's environmental justice programs

are only feel good publicity efforts , and they do Navajos no good . The finding is that the two power plants pollute the air around Shiprock and cause respiratory illnesses for Shiprock residents under the age of five and over the age of fifty

- six , are more than twice as likely to need treatment for respiratory problems than the rest of the area residents .

However , Shiprock residents are more than five times as likely to be seen at the Northern Navajo Medical Center for respiratory complaints than residents of other nearby communities .

Mother Earth and tradition . There is no recognition in international law that Mother Earth has standing to complain of environmental hazards , and Dooda Desert Rock complains to you in her name that this is no

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# 201 joke , and there are initiatives and the United Nations to declare the rights of Mother Earth .

Navajos know that our Changing Woman is a manifestation of the Mother Earth and the fundamental law s proclaimed a natural law

-- the natural law rights she has . Regional haze degrades Mother Earth , and it shames her . It must be prevented .

In my conclusion , we of Dooda Desert Rock , speaking with Mother Earth and with residents of the Shiprock area whose health is jeopardized , call upon the Air Quality Bureau or the Environmental Improvement Board

-- Department to take all necessary action to abate haze in our area .

Thank you very much . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Brown . May I have your written statement ? Is there anyone else who would like to offer public comment before we hear from San Juan Coal ?

If I forgot to say it before , please do sign in . The sign

- in sheets are at the door back there . We

use the sign

- in sheets as evidence of public participation .

Sir .

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# 202

GORDON GLASS having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your

name , please .

GORDON GLASS : Gordon Glass , G-L-A-S-S. Thank you for having this hearing in Farmington . I do wish that you would use a microphone . Some of us older , less well

- hearing people have a hard time , and there 's one right behind you , if they could set it up , and it would be helpful , for future speakers .

I'm standing here today because I assume that each of you is on this Board because some part of your life you have decided to operate in an excellent and a long

- term fashion , that you did the work necessary to be able to be who you are and what you do , you put in the time , and you put in the effort , spent the money to become excellent at something .

And I think that actually is the choice we ' re talking about . As we talk about 40 more years of this plant , do we want it to be marginal , or do we want it to be excellent ? Do we want to do the cheapest thing , or do we want to do the best thing ? Do we want to pay ahead for the people coming ? Because I know that I'm

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# 203

not going to be here in 20 50 . Do we want to pay ahead for the people coming that we ' ll have the best possible

use ? We are dependent on coal and coal

- fired electricity right now . That 's a re ality that we have created in this way . But change is coming , and it seems to me like the choice before you is whether you want to do something of excellence or whether we want to take the marginal way out .

I don 't minimize , like some people , the effect of this , the health effects , visibility effects . Those

are real . And we ' re talking about 40 years of it . And we can do better . And so the

-- the least effective is not the best for the long

- term . We want to do the

-- we want to do the best , I know for my grandchildren and children beyond . But also , we need to realize that

we ' re going to pay one way or the other on the transition of energy .

I can say personally I' ve invested in rooftop solar , and I'm a clean energy producer . I produce twice what I use , and I'm willing to bear that cost . And I'm able to bear that cost . I understand that . And many other people can , and some other people can 't.

But the re ality is the difference in cost here is something that the society can absorb . And the

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# 204

company should absorb part of that , as well .

And so what I would ask you to do is consider that excellence and long

- term thinking is a tremendous issue for our country , and you ' re being faced with just one of the many decisions that need to be done .

I'd like to say that the city of Farmington for more than 20 years did not raise water rates , because people don 't like rates being raised . And then , as the infrastructure began to crumble , they had to raise water rights considerably . And people are paying

a lot for water right now . This week our golf course is paying a lot for water use right now .

But part of that was because we didn 't buy into excellence over time . We fought for and we sought cheap solutions .

And so I ask you to consider that these are important factors here and that doing the best does cost . And we are in a society like no other society in the world in that we have

-- we can afford to do the best , like , for the most part , we ' ve always done .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Glass . Sir .

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# 205

MIKE EISENFELD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . EISENFELD : Mike Eisenfeld , E-I-S-E-N-F-E-L-D.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . EISENFELD : EIB , thank you , and welcome to Farmington . I appreciate your being here .

My name is Mike Eisenfeld . I live with my family here in Farmington . I work for an organization called the San Juan Citizens Alliance .

We ' re a -- here in Farmington , we ' re a dynamic community with multi

- jurisdictional issues . We , of

course , have the four states , three EPA regions , tribal lands . We have a lot going on here . There 's a lot of us who are invested in our community .

Clean Air Act compliance and a regional haze program , what we ' re talking about at today 's hearing , is

an issue that first came up in 19 99, a sufficient time for PNM to comply with the regional haze program .

The most recent State Implementation Plan doesn 't meet the Best Available Retrofit Technology

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# 206 requirements . Selective non catalytic reduction is not Best Available Retrofit Technology . The 20 to 40 percent reduction in NO x 

## , nitrogen oxides , is insufficient .

PNM has recently filed their intentions to keep San Juan Generating Station online until 20 53. With that should come a requirement to step up pollution reduction . Again , the San Juan Generating Station is 18 th in the nation in nitrogen oxide emissions , which has a dramatic impact on regional haze and public health . Due to the fact that we ' re relied on for 50 percent of PNM 's electricity with the San Juan Generating Station for the state , we expect a commitment from PNM to address some of the issues that have been happening for decades .

Ozone attainment is very possible for San Juan County . We need to address the NO x 

## emissions from San Juan Generating Station as part of the ozone issue that could come into play as soon as July of 2011 .

We request that the EIB take an honest appraisal of ways to address equity issues of San Juan Generating Station and the real costs to our community in continued reliance on coal .

Thank you very much .

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# 207

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Eisenfeld . Ma ' am . MS . COLLINS : Here 's a copy for each of the commission .

MS . ORTH : Thank you .

DEANNA COLLINS having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MS . COLLINS : Deanna Collins , C-O-L-L-I-N-S. And I'm with the League of Women Voters of La Plata County . And I' ll be reading a statement for the league . The League of Women Voters of La Plata County in Colorado urges the Environmental Improvement Board to reject the New Mexico Environment Department 's revisions to the Regional Haze Rule in the New Mexico State Implementation Plan and to support the EPA 's plan requiring the San Juan Generating Station to install SCR technology to reduce the plant 's nitrogen oxide emissions by 83 percent .

Installation of the SCR technology at the San

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# 208 Juan Generating Station would improve the health and economic opportunities , provide cleaner air and address environmental justice for people in the Four Corners , many of whom are low income and live below the poverty level . La Plata County borders San Juan County , New Mexico , in which the San Juan Generating Station is located . Prevailing winds carry pollutants from the coal

- fired power plant to our county in Southwest Colorado , as well as all counties of the Four Corners region and four sovereign tribes .

The proposed revisions to New Mexico 's good neighbor provisions of the State Implementation Plan of the Clean Air Act would reduce haze significant ly less than the EPA proposal . The SCR technology proposed by the EPA would have almost a four fold NO x 

## control effectiveness over the SNCR technology proposed in the revised State Implementation Plan .

Nitrogen oxide , a major cause of haze , is also

a precursor to ground level ozone , which is regulated by the EPA . Should the EPA lower their ozone standard this

summer , La Plata County could be in nonattainment .

The San Juan Generating Station is one of the major sources of nitrogen oxide in the area 's air shed . Our EPA region , state , nor county has any regulatory

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# 209 authority over the pollutants that are in our air from New Mexico , including the power plant , and we could potentially have difficulty coming into attainment because of pollutants that are not in our jurisdiction .

A decision factor used for the proposed revisions was economic information provided by PNM of New Mexico . They estimated a rate increase of $ 82 per year per residential ratepayer from the installation of SCR technology .

A recent study , which is referred to in the letter , on the health impacts from the San Juan Generating Station estimated that in 2010 33 deaths , 50 heart attacks , 600 asthma attacks and 23 hospital admissions resulted from pollution from the power plant . The resulting health care costs were estimated at 255 million for that year .

This figure breaks down to over 600 per person cost per capita in the 10 counties in the Four Corners region , which is significantly larger than the estimated rate increase , and is incurred by residents that receive little or no benefit from the electricity produced at the San Juan Generating Station .

National parks and monuments , wilderness areas and forests bring tremendous economic benefit to the Four Corners region . We rely on tourism and natural

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# 210

resources they provide for long

- term economic growth and sustainability . With increased oil and gas development , overgrazing and prolonged drought , combined with coal

- fired power plant pollution , we have seen a continual deterioration in our air quality .

The League of Women Voters of La Plata County urges the New Mexico Environmental Board as a good neighbor to require the most stringent of technologies to be installed at the San Juan Generating Station . We also urge you to promote cleaner forms of energy in New Mexico that encourage environmental justice and over all health of the region .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Collins . Is there anyone else who would like to make comment ? Sir . JAMES CRAWFORD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified further as follows :

FURTHER DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . CRAWFORD : I'm James Crawford , J-A-M-E-S C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D.

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# 211

Madam Chairman and Board members , I spoke to you yesterday , and I just couldn 't help myself , I had to add one thing today . So what I'm going to talk about is in my written comments , but I just need to bring this up . The main thrust of what we ' re being asked to do is aimed at NO x 

## emissions . And I -- if you look closely in the record , you will find that NO x 

## is a very minor part of all the pollution at -- measured at the monitoring sites .

You can look at NMED Exhibit 11 , Figures 71 through 7 15 . For instance , on the worst days , NO x 

## only makes up 8 percent of the pollutants at Bandelier and only 7.1 at Wheeler Peak Wilderness . And it 's the same for almost all other Class I areas .

So I guess my question is why is the only action proposed in this plan one of using a sledgehammer to drive a thumb tack ?

We ' re spending a huge amount of money on a very insignificant part of the problem . The plan isn 't really addressing all of the major

-- if you look at those pie charts in the plan , you know , the major pollutants are not NO x 

## . And what PNM is being asked to do is just further address the NO x 

## problem .

So , you know , I think we ' re addressing the

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wrong problem .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Crawford . Anyone else ? BILL HAGLER having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . HAGLER : Bill Hagler , H-A-G-L-E-R.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . HAGLER : Good morning . I'm here to talk to you today about the EIB Case 11-01(R), the haze proposal for San Juan Generating Station . I'm a small business owner in Farmington . I' ve lived here for 42 years . I served 25 years on the Farmington Public Utility Commission . I'm a former member of New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board , and currently serve as vice

- president for the New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance .

I share this information so you will understand that I have both a vested interest and knowledge of the decision before you .

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# 213 PNM fully up graded the San Juan Station in 2009 and significantly lowered the plant 's emission of nitrogen oxide , sulfur dioxide , mercury , particulate matter . The fact that the EPA would be here less than two years later to impose further regulation on this recently up graded plant is troubling , especially at a time when so many of us are struggling .

However , if regional haze must be addressed , I strongly urge you to adopt the state 's plan . The technology difference between this plan and the EPA 's plan , which is more -- less cost effective , will produce

a negligible difference in the haze situation being addressed , but at staggering difference in costs .

The EPA Region 6 plan for San Juan has

-- San Juan Generating Station has an estimated cost of $7 50 million to $1 billion , or at least $ 85 a year for the average customer , compared to $77 million , or $ 12 , for the state 's plan .

In addition , the San Juan Generating Station and San Juan Coal Mine who supplies the fuel are both major employers , as have been pointed out in this region , and they contribute to the economic health of

our area . The power plant and the mine employs nearly 1, 000 people full

- time , at good

-- good wages .

The plant pays millions of dollars each year

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in government , tribal and property taxes , as well as coal royalties . San Juan also purchases 30 million in materials and supplies , 122 million in contracts for outside services .

So this is a major economic engine in this

area , as Dr . Henderson pointed out .

I strongly urge you to adopt the State Implementation Plan . It will help preserve the jobs and the economy in this region . While being more sensitive to the costs , it will ultimately be borne by the ratepayers .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Hagler . Anyone else like to make public comment ? There will be one more invitation after we ' ve heard from San Juan Coal Company .

Sir . DOYLE MEYER having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . MEYER : Doyle Meyer , D-O-Y-L-E M-E-Y-E-R.

THE REPORTER : Thank you .

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MR . MEYER : Well , I' ll be short . Recently the Tennessee Valley Authority announced that under pressure from the EPA they were closing 18 units . And I don 't know how they ' re planning

on replacing the electricity from those 18 units . If they replace it with nuclear energy , it will cut the rates to the end user about in half .

There are a couple of plants being built right now in the south . If they go to natural gas plants , their rates will be about two to three times what it would be for coal . If they go to wind energy , it will also be two to three times more expensive to produce than coal energy . If they go to solar somehow or another , it will be four to eight times more expensive to produce electricity from a solar source than it would be from a coal

- fired plant .

I'm retired , and I would really hate to see my rates double , triple , quadruple because of actions that force a plant to close , like it looks like the APS plant is going to be doing .

And I just recommend that we go with the state plan , simply because it will probably allow the plant s to continue in operation for some time to come . If they close

-- if actions on the part of the Board requires the plants to close some of the units , it will

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# 216 inevitably cause our rates to increase without , in my mind at least , significantly improving the air quality in this area .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Meyer . Anyone else ? All right . Mr . Roybal , we ' ll turn to San Juan Coal Company .

MR . ROYBAL : Good morning , Madam Hearing Officer , members of the Board , and Madam Chairman .

Charles Roybal from BHP Billiton and San Juan Coal Company .

Welcome to San Juan County and Farmington , New Mexico . I really hope that you ' re enjoying your time here and this wonderful facility , San Juan Community College . We ' re very happy to host you and have you here . The members of our community , our leaders and

-- feel it 's very important that you are able to do that .

San Juan Coal Company will have two witnesses , and I'd like to have them present ed one at a time .

Our first witness is Mr . John Cline . THE REPORTER : I will ask you both to raise your right hands .

( JOHN CLINE and NORMAN BENALLY were duly sworn

or affirmed .)

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# 217

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . CLINE : My name is John Cline , J-O-H-N C-L-I-N-E. JOHN CLINE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ROYBAL : Q. Mr . Cline , did you prepare written pre filed testimony in this case ? A. I did . Q. Have you had

-- for whom did you provide that testimony ? A. For the San Juan Coal Company . Q. And have you had the opportunity to review that testimony , and do you have any corrections or addition to that testimony ? A. I have , and I have no revisions to offer . Q. Do you adopt that written testimony as your

own ? A. I do . Q. Could you give the Board a little bit of your background and credentials ? A. Sure . Madam Hearing Officer , Madam Chairman and

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other members of the Board , as I said , my name is John Cline . I'm a lawyer , licensed in the commonwealth of Virginia . I have a solo practice that focuses on energy and environmental issues , with a particular emphasis on Clean Air Act matters .

I have a JD degree from the University of Richmond and a bachelor of science in chemical engineering from the University of Virginia .

I' ve been involved in Clean Air Act matters for over 30 years . You can see I' ve got the gray hair and lack of hair to prove it . In that capacity , I represent primarily mining , industrial , electrical and transportation sectors of the economy .

With respect to regional haze , from 2004 to 2009 , I represented a coalition of large industrial and utility companies in the Southeast with operations throughout that portion of the United States . I have also represented individual clients on matters related to visibility protection , including the de termination of BART and reasonable progress .

MR . ROYBAL : With that , Madam Hearing Officer , we offer Mr . Cline 's testimony as evidence in this hearing . MS . ORTH : All right .

And he 's ready to stand for questions ?

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MR . ROYBAL : Yes . Well , no . He will summarize his testimony . We were just offering

--

MS . ORTH : The exhibit . MR . ROYBAL : -- the exhibit . Yes . MS . ORTH : Yes , sir . Are there objections ? Hearing none , it 's admitted . Thank you . ( Exhibit SJCC B admitted into evidence .) Q. ( BY MR . ROYBAL ) Mr . Cline , would you please summarize your written testimony . A. The purpose of my testimony on behalf of San Juan Coal Company is to strongly encourage the Board 's adoption of the state plan for BART for the San Juan Generating Station .

And in doing so , we hope to help the Board understand that Congress delegated broad discretion to each state to account for local conditions in circumstances when the state determined BART on a

source - specific basis by balancing several factors that

are designated in the statute .

Now , yesterday the Board heard public comments such as the following :

The proposed SIP is on shaky grounds . It conflicts with EPA 's findings .

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The Department is not using good science , nor is it using good policy .

The Department must have data that quantifies

a balance between the cost and the health impacts .

Well , each of those statements is simply wrong , because they ' re based on a premise that really isn 't supported by the Clean Air Act .

However , instead of focusing so much on EPA 's BART determination and how that was made , we believe that the Department focus has been correctly based on what Congress intended it to do , and they determined it appropriately .

I have to take an aside here and just address best available control technology

-- Best Available Retrofit Technology .

And there is a rather broad misperception that best in that terminology means maximum emission reductions . That is not the case . Best available control technology means the best technology selected on

a case - by

- case basis for a specific source considering five specific factors that Congress identified .

Now , Congress enacted the visability protection program in 19 77. And it 's not well known , however , that in 19 80 EPA promulgated visibility

r egulations . These were addressed toward what is called

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# 221 reasonably attributable visibility impairment , or RAVI . But it 's important to note that EPA promulgated these regulations in keeping with the statute , and they even had BART guidelines at that particular time .

Now , there 's a fundamental principal of statutory construction that most courts will give more weight to an agency 's interpretation of the statute when that interpretation is made contemporaneously with the statutory provisions that were enacted .

And that 's particularly meaningful here , because if you go back in history and look at how EPA addressed this particular program in the early 19 80s, it provides some revealing illustrations of how BART should be determined .

Unfortunately , in the current determinations for BART and the BART guidelines , EPA has not continued to emphasize the congressional preference for states to make BART determinations . So that if you look back at

some of the statements that EPA made in 19 80, and will juxtapose those to what EPA 's done in the future .

I believe you have copies of my direct testimony , so I don 't plan on reading all of it , but I must read a couple statements that EPA made .

For example , " The visibility regulations give the States a great deal of flexibility in determining

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# 222

the measures they choose to secure -- to assure reasonable progress . As the Act requires , EPA has provided measures for the States to consider , but left the actual ' mix ' of those measures adopted to the States ' discretion ."

So there is no mandate under the Clean Air Act that it must be done a certain way .

EPA further said that the state retains final authority for the development of the SIP , BART determinations and implementation of the visibility regulations .

Now , as I mentioned , Congress , of course , mandated that there be five specific factors that must be considered when determining BART . To that end , I want you to pay attention to what EPA said about those factors .

" It is , of course , not possible to provide

more specific guidance on how a State should balance the various BART factors while simultaneously giving the State more flexibility to strike the balance it deems appropriate in light of local and site

- specific considerations . A strictly quantitative approach , however , is not necessarily a better alternative .

" The procedures outlined in the 19 80 BART Guidelines allow States to consider local conditions and

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# 223 circumstances in their BART decisionmaking . This recognizes that States have the most complete knowledge of local factors that would affect the BART decision ."

So in other words , there is no single right

answer for BART , but it 's clear that under the law Congress very much wanted the states to make the determination .

Now , that determination is supposed to be made by a reasonable balance by the state . That 's not to say that EPA or some other third party could also come up with their reasonable balance . But the prerogative is that the state -- it is not up to EPA to second

- guess , nor other third parties to second

- guess that determination .

Yesterday , the Board also heard the following public comment , "SCR is man dated and required by the Clean Air Act ."

Well , that statement is flatly wrong . There is nothing within the Clean Air Act provisions 169 A or 169 B that would compel such a conclusion .

So let 's briefly consider some of the basic flaws of EPA 's analysis of how it determined BART .

EPA 's determination has not resulted from a balancing of statutory factors in any meaningful way that reflect New Mexico 's particular circumstances and

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concerns . EPA 's determination has not been substantively informed by any source - specific or site

- specific matters . EPA 's BART determination did not even consider potential visibility improvement in all of the Class I

areas in New Mexico .

In short , EPA 's BART determination consists of

a very narrow analytical methodology that seems designed to produce a predetermined result .

In effect , it 's no secret that EPA would like to have SCR installed on every coal

- fired power plant that refuses to shut down .

EPA 's so - called five

- factor BART analysis really degrades into an analysis of cost effectiveness . And yesterday there was a lot of emphasis and discussion about cost effectiveness in terms of dollars per ton .

Now , that is a number that EPA typically uses . They require it in the BART guidelines . But stop and think about it . Dollars per ton of pollutant reduced says nothing about the effectiveness of visibility improvement . I mean , for my money , I would like to see dollars spent per deciview of visibility improvement .

But the BART guidelines very much emphasize dollar per ton . In fact , that is not the sole , but the

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very utmost primary determinant in EPA 's BART determination . Now , the Department used that same metric , but fortunately , they didn 't put all their eggs in one basket .

On the other hand , the Department 's methodology for determining BART is a measured application of EPA 's BART guidelines which reflects an appropriate weighting of the statutory factors to accommodate local conditions and circumstances just as Congress intended .

EPA 's BART determination , for example , has been performed in a vacuum , whereas the state 's determination is just a part of a much broader regional haze plan that integrates that BART determination into the rest of their planning .

And make no mistake about it , this is not a

one - shot deal . As Ms . Uhl testified yesterday , this is

a very young program . There will be a series of planning steps , and the Board will have other bites of the apple for Public Service New Mexico as well as a variety of other sources .

Contrary to EPA 's one - size

- fits

- all approach to determining BART , the Department 's consideration of statutory factors have been weighed according to

source - specific matters , in particular , the relative

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levels of adverse economic impacts on residents of New Mexico and the specific challenges posed by this particular BART retrofit for a forced draft boiler , such

as those at San Juan .

I believe that the Department should be applauded for applying the statutory factors in the

manner in which Congress originally intended .

So in conclusion , Congress had a clear vision of how BART should be determined . To that end , the Department 's BART determination fulfills that vision . EPA 's determination , on the other hand , does not . For that reason , San Juan Coal Company strongly encourages you to adopt the state 's determination .

Thank you for letting me speak to you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Cline . MR . ROYBAL : We offer the witness for questions . MS . ORTH : Thank you .

Mr . Grantham , do you have questions of Mr . Cline ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions .

MS . ORTH : Mr . Alvidrez ? MR . ALVIDREZ : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Rose ? MR . ROSE : No questions .

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MS . ORTH : Anyone else ? The Board . EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MS . ORTH : Member Ryan . MS . RYAN : Mr . Cline , thank you for being here . I appreciate the congressional and regulatory history that you ' ve outlined to us for the Board . I think that is important when we ' re looking at implementing regulations for our state and the

-- you know , the intent that went behind them many years ago .

I know that you have had involvement in these SIPs with other states , and so I'm particularly wanting to know

-- you ' ve termed EPA 's one - size

- fits

- all proposal , and I'd like you to discuss that as specifically as you can on -- is the proposal that the EPA has outlined for the San Juan Generating Station the same that it has done -- I mean , is it pretty much the

same as it 's tried to do in other states , or , you know , is it

-- is it different ?

Is it putting New Mexico in the same box with other states ?

MR . CLINE : Yes , ma ' am , it is . It very much is . One of the frustrating parts about this

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# 228 regulatory program is you have the regulations , and you have a series of informal guidance memoranda issued by EPA staff that purports to implement the regulations , but in actuality goes far beyond what the regulations and certainly what the statute requires .

Now , EPA will politely say , " The states have discretion . They make the determination . But remember , we have to approve your SIP ."

So there 's that thumb that they hold on the states , and they make no bones about a strong preference for SCR. And they support that determination primarily through their cost analyses that comes up with this bogus dollar per ton figure that is reasonable in EPA 's eyes . It 's -- there 's no bright line test , and the states have no idea what it might be until they make the determination , then they hear from EPA .

But I would say that in every case that I'm

aware of any state that has made a BART determination for a coal

- fired power plant that has not proposed SCR has received considerable push back from EPA .

MS . RYAN : So you ' re saying that the SIPs that have been proposed to the EPA have not been approved or in a delayed process of approval or --

MR . CLINE : That 's correct . Yes .

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MS . RYAN : Okay . MR . CLINE : The whole regulatory program for regional haze and BART has this terrible history of start and stop , start and stop . I mean , the statute was enacted in '77, and here we ' re just getting around to regional haze regulations in 19 99 that were changed in 2005 . But there are no -- well , there may be a couple BART determinations that EPA has approved to date , but curiously , they ' re approving not the SIP , but just the BART determination that selects SCR as the EPA prefers . That 's not really logical to me . It 's supposed to be a regional haze SIP , and why you would

sever the BART from everything else -- I'm not even sure if that 's lawful . But again , I -- at the risk of sounding paranoid , I know that EPA wants us to , and if the state has offered that , they ' ll approve that .

MS . RYAN : So do you think the PNM and NMED 's, you know , SIP proposal is a bit pointless , or do you think it 's worth trying ?

MR . CLINE : Oh , I think under the circumstances it 's worth trying . The gentleman that offered the public comment earlier about this focus on NO x 

## really is kind of misleading , because nitrates are a

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very small part of the visibility problem in New Mexico .

But having said that , the state does have a mandate to come up with a regional haze SIP for the period from 2004 to 20 18 . And the one thing that 's clear they must do is make some BART determination for NO x 

## emissions . As we heard yesterday , the equivalent for SO 2 

## is already incorporated within the regional backstop trading program .

So yes , the step for NO x 

## BART for PNM is probably appropriate . I think they should be given all the credit in the world for the reasonable progress that they achieved with the recent retro fits that were made . That 's a big step and , in many people 's minds , could be BART in and of itself . But as I understand , PNM has agreed to take the next step and go with SNCR.

And keeping in mind that there will be another regional haze plan , another regional haze plan , another and another .

MS . RYAN : So is my understanding correct that -- I know that there 's like an August deadline for EPA approval . If we were to implement the SIP , could they approve it ? And you ' re saying they could approve it in part and not in part . And if so , would our state be given time to amend or revise our SIP and re submit it ?

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MR . CLINE : You know , that 's -- I can 't really

answer that question . That 's going to be an EPA determination . I mean , clearly the way the law reads , the State of New Mexico and a whole bunch of other states missed a deadline for submitting a regional haze request . And that started a two - year clock once the EPA made that finding . If they didn 't submit it by then , then EPA says we could step in and propose a FIP , presumably a regional haze FIP , and not just BART .

What latitude the State of New Mexico may have vis -a- vis the court settlement that established the state , I believe it 's now August of this year , for the SIP -- I don 't know how much flexibility there is .

MS . RYAN : Thank you . MS . ORTH : Member Bryce . MR . BRYCE : Mr . Cline , in your opinion , is the

-- if the SIP were to be submitted , is there anything that you think should be further evaluated or changed in the SIP to less offend the EPA ?

MR . CLINE : I really can 't think of anything . I mean , I know they read

-- made

-- EPA made some rather substantive comments , and I' ve seen the Department 's step - by

- step response to those . I thought those responses were thorough and appropriate .

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MR . BRYCE : Okay . That 's all I have . Thanks . MS . ORTH : Other

-- MR . VOLKERDING : I just want to make a comment , and then maybe you can follow up on a comment

on that . It kind of brings a little bit of this together . Is -- in the rule , EPA developed what they call presumptive BART limits based on a source of

-- what kind of source it is and what kind of fuel . And under EPA 's own presumptive BART , the limits that are being set forth by the state SIP are less than EPA 's presumptive BART .

So I just throw that out there . If we ' re concerned about what EPA might do , we are at least

-- the state 's plan is less than presumptive BART . And I don 't know if you want to follow up on that .

MR . CLINE : Well , that 's a great point . And I' ve seen the presumptive BART limits used for you and against you dependent upon where you are on that line .

The BART guidelines are not the Holy Grail . The statute says EPA must establish BART guidelines for power plants greater than 750 megawatts . But those are guidelines and don 't really carry the weight of regulations , in my mind . And so there should be some

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# 233 flexibility .

But the state would have reason to believe that if it selected a limit that met the presumptive limit , that should satisfy the agency .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thanks . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? MS . PEACOCK : Yes . Mr . Cline , just to clarify , are you saying that EPA has never adopted any SNCR BARTs or SIPs from states ? MR . CLINE : I'm certainly not familiar with any , not for a coal

- fired power plant . No . EPA 's SIP approval for regional haze SIPs

-- you could probably count them on one hand , and those came up yesterday , and I believe the Black & Veatch people mentioned Idaho , or maybe it was Oregon . Yeah . And there 's a handful of others that EPA has proposed to approve the BART determination .

In each case , I believe that is SCR . MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? Other Board questions ? Mr . Roybal , do you have any redirect ? MR . ROYBAL : Just a couple of clarifications , Madam Hearing Officer .

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REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ROYBAL : Q. Mr . Cline , any reference in your testimony to BACT , I think you were talking about BART in every other instance ? A. That 's correct . Yeah . If I said BACT

-- as

was pointed out yesterday , that is a new source review terminology . BART , with the R, stands for retrofit , obviously , for existing sources . Q. And finally , it is your conclusion that you would support the adoption of the NMED proposal for this

-- A. Very much so . MR . ROYBAL : Okay . Nothing further . MS . ORTH : Thank you . Is there any reason not to excuse Mr . Cline ? MR . GRANTHAM : Madam Hearing Officer . MS . ORTH : Yes . MR . GRANTHAM : I just had one follow

- up question . CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . GRANTHAM : Q. Mr . Cline , in your testimony , you referred to there being SIP revisions down the road , every five years , and I think you used the phrase " another bite at

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the apple ."

And my question is is it your opinion that this Board will have another chance to re visit the San Juan Generating Station in particular with regard to regional haze ? A. Oh , yeah , very much so . They won 't be able to make another BART determination for NO x 

## , but the

-- the Board would have the obligation to adopt future regional haze SIPs that achieve reasonable progress in the future , and if the Department determines that reasonable progress may be achieved through further reductions for San Juan Generating Station , that certainly is the goal .

MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you . MS . ORTH : Anything else ?

FURTHER EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MR . CASCIANO : I do have one more question . Mr . Cline , we ' ve heard allusion to health effects from emissions , and I wondered if you could talk about how that is supposed to be considered with the BART determination and whether the Department has done that properly in your opinion , per the Clean Air Act for this application ?

MR . CLINE : Sure . The regional haze program is kind of different from most Clean Air Act programs .

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The Clean Air Act is focused on protection of public health and welfare . But there is a visibility problem that Congress wanted to address . And so the focus of this proceeding is on meeting the statutory and regulatory requirements for regional haze .

Now , to the extent that there are collateral benefits , such as reduced health effects , you know , that 's just all the more reason to adopt that type of plan . But I think it 's inappropriate to compare regional haze plans on which has the alleged better health improvement part . You need really to stick to the act and five factors , and health effects weren 't one of them . Congress said there 's five factors to consider . And then if your reduction program does achieve health benefits , which is

-- the Department 's does

-- it just doesn 't achieve as many as some people would like . Okay . But that should not be viewed as a black mark against the Department 's plan .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . Thank you . MS . RYAN : In follow

- up , so what you ' re saying is our focus

-- you ' re saying that our Board 's focus should be on visibility as to regional haze in conside ration of the five factors only .

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MR . CLINE : Yes , ma ' am . Yeah . Very much so . I mean , there are other Clean Air Act programs like New Source Performance Standards and NESHAPs and PSD where you do focus on health impacts . But here it 's visibility and the five factors that Congress said each state should balance .

MR . CASCIANO : And is one of those factors

-- five factors public health ?

MR . CLINE : No , sir . No . There 's the cost of compliance , the nonair quality environmental benefits . What else ? The remaining useful life of the plant , the air control technologies that are installed on the plant currently , and the visibility improvements that would be gained by any BART .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . MS . RYAN : Sorry . I have one more . In your familiarity with up - and

- coming technologies , obviously , right now we ' re looking at SCR and SNCR . Is there

-- do you expect that in five years , when our Board is required to re visit SIP for regional haze , that there would be more technology for us to look at at that time ? Or are you familiar

-- are you supposing ? I know that 's a big guess .

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MR . CLINE : Yeah . I -- I would have to not venture on that . I don 't really get into a lot of the technical control technologies as much , and it 's more in the legal aspects .

MS . ORTH : Member Fulfer . MR . FULFER : I have one question on the EPA calculations .

Do you feel like they ' re -- you were talking about them being flawed in certain ways , but one of them is -- I'm curious if they figured in the retrofit versus

new construction , which retrofit is usually a higher cost ? Do you feel like they based that just on new construction ?

MR . CLINE : No , sir , I don 't. I think the intent was to quantify cost for a retrofit . And as was discussed the other day , they are heavily married to EPA 's OAQPS Cost Control Manual , and that 's kind of their Bible . And for the most part , if the cost analysis in these factors aren 't in that manual , they ' re

some how deemed not relevant .

For my money , I would rather take the cost estimate of an engineering design firm that does that for a living , who has to stand behind that cost estimate if they ' re selected to build a plant .

MS . ORTH : Anything else ?

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# 239 Anything else at all before we excuse Mr . Cline ? Thank you very much , Mr . Cline .

MR . ROYBAL : Madam Hearing Officer , we 'd call Norman Benally as our next witness . NORMAN BENALLY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ROYBAL : Q. Mr . Benally , you ' ve been sworn in . Did you prepare prefiled written testimony in this case ? A. Yes , I did . Q. And have you had the opportunity to review that testimony ? Do you have any corrections or additions ? A. I don 't have any . Q. Could you tell us a little bit about your background and credentials ? A. Sure . I haven 't been -- I' ve been employed with BHP Billiton since 19 72. I was originally hired on

as a janitor back in 19 72. Some of the past positions that I' ve held are the manager of human resources , the superintendent of governmental affairs , labor relations

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# 240 advisor , front line supervision , and then was a bargaining unit member for the 11 years with the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 953 .

I am currently the head of external affairs for BHP Billiton New Mexico Coal .

MR . ROYBAL : We 'd move the admission of Mr . Benally 's testimony in this case .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you . Objections ? Hearing none , admitted . Thank you . ( Exhibit SJCC A admitted into evidence .) Q. ( BY MR . ROYBAL ) Mr . Benally , could you summarize your testimony for the Board ? A. Sure . Mr . Roybal , before I do , though , I just want to thank the Board for being here in New Mexico , and I

am Salt Clan . My mom was Salt Clan . My father was Red Running Into Water Clan . So I introduce myself as being Salt Clan first and Red Running Into Water Clan second . And my maternal grandfathers are Folded Arms Clan , and my paternal grandfathers are also Folded Arms Clan , as well . But I'm here to offer testimony on behalf of

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San Juan Coal Company , which is a subsidiary of New Mexico Coal . In return , New Mexico Coal is wholly

- owned by BHP Billiton .

The company operates San Juan Mine , which is

an under ground mine operating on federal land and state land here in Northwest New Mexico . We also operate Navajo Mine , which is a surface coal mine that 's located within the exterior boundaries of the Navajo Nation .

San Juan Mine sells coal to the San Juan Generating Station that is operated by public service of New Mexico . As a result , we are a very significant stakeholder in the future and the sustainability of San Juan Generating Station .

As a -- as a company , we support New Mexico Environmental Department 's proposal for San Juan Generating Station to establish the Best Available Retrofit Technology to regulate nitrogen oxide and particulate matters .

We are concerned over a recent US Environmental Protection Agency proposal that would establish BART for San Juan Generating Station , and we believe the State of New Mexico is in the best position to establish BART for the San Juan Generating Station .

My testimony pertains to the socioeconomic benefits and impacts of our operation on the State of

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New Mexico , San Juan County and the Navajo Nation .

In several ways , I'm really an example of what the energy industry can bring to the Navajo Nation . As I indicated , I started when I was 20 years old with BHP Billiton , and have enjoyed an employment . I' ve been able to obtain a bachelor 's of science degree in business administration from the University of Phoenix for which the energy industry , BHP Billiton paid 75 percent of my continuing education .

In calendar year 2010 , New Mexico Coal employed 1, 038 people at our San Juan and Navajo Mine operations , with a total payroll of approximately $ 93 million . Our workforce is 63 percent Native American . We account for nearly 3 percent of employment in San Juan County .

We are a significant contributor to the local and state economy . Our bargaining unit miners are represented by Local 953 of the International Union of Operating Engineers . We are currently the largest private employer in San Juan County and the Navajo Nation . And as you know , the Navajo Nation

-- the unemployment rate exceeds 50 percent .

In calendar year 2010 , our New Mexico Coal operations paid state , local , tribal , federal taxes and royalties of over $ 116 million , which equates to $8. 62

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per ton , plus state and federal income taxes . In addition , we spent over $ 150 million on equipment , services and supplies for our two mines .

The San Juan Mine currently employs approximately 5 29 employees with a total payroll of $ 46 million . In calendar year 2010 , San Juan Mine paid state , local , tribal , federal taxes and royalties for approximately $ 49 million , plus state and federal income taxes . This includes approximately 24 million in New Mexico taxes and nearly 11 million in royalties to New Mexico . As a company , we are committed to sustainable development , and we strive to be a business that is actively creating a positive legacy in our community . We are a major contributor to both the San Juan United Way and the Navajo Way campaigns .

We were the first $1 million donor to the San Juan United Way 's 50

- year history . And this was repeated again in 2011 . In July of 2009 , BHP Billiton established a community investment fund program which resulted in $ 383 , 000 being awarded to 34 deserving

non profit organizations .

And I thank you for once again for coming to

our neck of the woods .

MR . ROYBAL : We offer the witness for

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# 244 questions . MS . ORTH : Thank you .

Mr . Grantham ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Alvidrez ? MR . ALVIDREZ : No questions . MS . ORTH : Mr . Rose ? MR . ROSE : No questions . MS . ORTH : Anyone else ? Board members , do you have questions of Mr . Benally ?

Any reason not to excuse him ? No ? Thank you very much , Mr . Benally . MR . ROYBAL : Again , we thank the Board for attending this hearing and coming to San Juan County .

MS . ORTH : Thank you . Let me ask at this point if there 's anyone else who would like to make non technical public comment . This is the last opportunity .

Ma ' am . We ' re asking commenters to come to the same spot .

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MARGARET MC DANIEL having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MS . MD DANIEL : Margaret McDaniel , M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T M-C-D-A-N-I-E-L.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . MC DANIEL : Members of the EIB Board , I respectfully ask for your attention for a couple of minutes . I am the executive director of San Juan Economic Development Service , a non profit economic development group here in San Juan County , representing the Cities of Aztec , Bloomfield , Farmington and the remainder of San Juan County .

Our mission is to assist and lead the way in retention , expansion , creation and recruitment of economic

- based companies into this area for purpose of creating high

- wage jobs . Our Board consists of all the decision

- makers , the mayors , the city managers , as well

as private sector folks from throughout San Juan County .

And before me , I have a packet of a letter stating our request to support the state SIP plan . I

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also have a resolution signed by the members of the board of directors in support of this plan .

While I have this letter with supporting documentation , I would like to just speak freely for a couple of minutes and tell you that as -- as a member of this community , also serving as a county commissioner for District 2, and as an executive director of S JEDS , it is our understanding that there are so many issues in this county that affect all of the people here .

And none of us , none of us in this county want dirty water , dirty air or dirty environment . We ' re all trying to work together to find balance between job creation , job saving or -- and people 's health and well

- being .

So at this point , we really respectfully ask that you consider this , because we know that we have lost over 5, 000 jobs in this area in the last couple of years , and while the loss of jobs and dollars seem

-- seem kind of hard and cold in

-- compared to people 's health or even the

-- even the visibility , the haze issue here , it 's a matter of working together to find some kind of balance , that we can all work together and live together in this beautiful area and find a way to enjoy our environment , as well as keep our people employed .

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And so with that , I'd like to leave you with this packet of information and respectfully ask that you accept it and consider our -- our support of the SIP .

MS . ORTH : Thank you . Please bring it up here . Is there anyone else who would like to make

non technical public comment ?

Sir . MR . ROGERS : My name is Joe Rogers . THE REPORTER : Would you raise your right hand . JOE ROGERS having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Now , please state and spell your name . MR . ROGERS : Joe Rogers , R-O-G-E-R-S.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . ROGERS : Definitely non technical . I start ed working at the Four Corners Power Plant in probably February of 1974 and worked there until last year . And one thing I know for certain is , you know , when you get up on top of the units , you can

see San Juan Station from the Four Corners plant , and

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you can see all around the area .

In '74, the visibility was a lot better than it is now , but the only thing that 's really changed in that time was the power plants are probably

-- between the two power plants , they probably put in billions of dollars worth of pollution control equipment . And so , I

mean , they made a major effort in what it takes to control our visibility . And that 's what this is about , visibility .

And so I would say unequivocally that the power plants aren 't the main source of pollution that is impacting visibility .

Second item was I appreciate the Board 's efforts in this . I think they ' re making the best of a really bad situation , and I think it is a state 's rights issue . I think you guys need to have control of this , and encourage you to stick with it and make sure that we deal with this as a visibility issue , not a health issue . I guess my third comment would be I' ve been in constant contact with our -- our two senators and Congressman Lujan over this issue continually , and it does not look like they have any intention of stepping in and helping EPA make the decision to give this back to the New Mexico Board .

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So I would encourage everybody to contact the senators and Lujan in particular and make sure that they step in and support New Mexico in taking this from

-- back from the EPA .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Rogers . Is there anyone else who would like to make public comment ?

Sir . JOSH ORTEGA having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . ORTEGA : Josh Ortega , O-R-T-E-G-A.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MR . ORTEGA : Thank you . Ladies and gentlemen of the Board , I'm a member of the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 953 , and I'm also an under ground coal miner . I am but one of the several hundred coal miners that are employed with the responsibility of providing fuel to San Juan Generating Station . We are productive members of our community , and we contribute economically to this

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# 250 region . The impact of these proposed regulations will have profound effect upon the economy of this area . If the power plant and coal mines are regulated out of business , five or ten years from now , maybe sooner , this community will look nothing like it does now . And as to your comments earlier , the river walks and things of that nature have been provided due to the economic impact of the San Juan Generating Station and BHP.

According to the American Lung Association 's Annual State of the Air report , Farmington consistently ranks as one of the cleanest clean air cities in the United States .

As a resident of this area and working to rear

a family here , I am concerned about the environment , and I strive to lessen my family 's effect upon the local environment . But as a responsible father , I have to consider the economic impacts of these choices upon my family . The Federal Implementation Plan will place an

un due economic hardship upon the already struggling citizens of this great state and threaten the very livelihood of the local residents .

The New Mexico implementation plan balances cost and economic impacts with significant environmental

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# 251 improvements . By utilizing our State Implementation Plan , we will provide the residents of this community and our state an opportunity to succeed in a struggling economy . Ladies and gentlemen , thank you for your time .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Ortega . Anyone else ? Is Lucinda Bennalley here or --

LUCINDA Y. BENNALLEY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MS . BENNALLEY : Lucinda , L-U-C-I-N-D-A, Y. Bennalley , B- as - in

- boy -E-N-N-A-L-L-E-Y.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . MS . BENNALLEY : Good morning , ladies and gentlemen of the State of New Mexico 's Board , Environmental Board .

My name is Lucinda Yellowman Bennalley , and I'm the president of the local chapter . I don 't know how many of you are familiar with the chapters of the Navajo Nation . They ' re like small county governments . And I' ve been a chapter president for over 20 years .

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And I'm also a retired educator , having last worked as a guidance counselor in a public school , at Kirtland Central . Yea , Broncos . And my primary job there was to make sure that the students had a plan to get a high school diploma and then go on beyond that . And we and the other counselors

-- it was our priority to make sure that these students went on to get skilled , to be able to have jobs .

And we are very fortunate where we live here in Northwest New Mexico to have these companies close by

so our children can go on to school , get skilled and come back and stay in the community and work in a well

- paying job .

And we ' re thankful we have a community college at San Juan to provide these programs that are needed for jobs here in the area . And we are also thankful to the companies that have provided their funds for the School of Energy to -- to provide programs that are appropriate for

-- for the local companies and the positions that are available there .

And as a member of the Nenahnezad Chapter , we always claim that we ' re closest to Hesperus Mountain , which , of course , the Navajos consider as one of the sacred mountains , and historically , all that land up to Hesperus was Navajo Nation , before the US bought it out ,

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or bought it back or took it back .

Because my dad used to say , " Well , we used to herd our sheep all the way to the foothills , and there

was our summer camp ."

And it was like , man , why didn 't we keep it ? But anyway , because we didn 't keep it , we have thousands , probably , counting all the people that are employed at PNM and BHP and the contractors , they ' re able to have jobs , and which improves their quality of life , and enabling our -- our Navajo Nation to have a better quality of life than what 's on the rest of the nation . And I am asking that on behalf of our community , whatever needs to be done to -- to assist PNM to continue operating , providing jobs , providing scholarships , summer jobs , and , of course , most important , the royalties and taxes that go to the whole State of New Mexico , and to the Navajo Nation and other tribes . And we feel that as -- as indigenous people , we are responsible stewards of the land . We feel that the creator has blessed us with the type of land that

was given to us to live on , at some point a hundred or

so years ago . However , we were blessed that there 's a lot of natural resources , and we did not benefit only as

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a tribe by ourselves , but we were able to -- our neighbors are able to benefit from it , too .

So

-- and I always say , " When you were coming in , you probably saw the beautiful mountains ." And I said that to the EPA folks about a month ago or so .

They said , " Yes , we did ." Okay . Where 's the haze ? There is no haze . Yesterday there was . I don 't know where that came from . I think it 's blowing from the coast or something . But you couldn 't hardly see , and it was awful . Now , that 's haze . And that 's what our elders say . If you ' re talking about pollution , you ' re talking about what you see in LA . There 's no pollution here .

So we are in support of that and whatever needs to be done to assist PNM . And of course , if anything should happen negatively to cause that plant to shut down , it will affect all

-- the whole county and the whole state , probably the whole nation .

And again , I say we are fortunate that our children and our people are able to stay close to home to have good jobs , although there are a number of them that have to travel to different contracts throughout the United States to -- to have well

- paying jobs .

So

-- and another thing I wanted to say was -- I had mentioned to EPA people that maybe something

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should be done to collaborate with the United Nations , maybe some global watchdog organization to address this pollution . I don 't think that our plants , our pollution , all this global warming pollution , because there 's no regulation . Nobody looks out for the power plants that

are unregulated in China , and all that drifts over to

us . Now we ' re experiencing all the weather changes because of what happened in Japan .

So we are just trying to provide for our community , for our United States of America , and our people proudly served as veterans , calling the US our mother . That was one of the words in the Code Talkers ' vocabulary .

So with that , I thank you for the time to be able to make these comments .

MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Bennalley . Anyone else ?

CLAYTON BENALLY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . BENALLY : My name is Clayton Benally ,

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# 256 C-L-A-Y-T-O-N, Benally , B-E-N-A-L-L-Y.

And I am no relations to Norman Benally or Lucy Bennalley .

I'm here today to urge the Environment Improvement Board to adopt the State Implementation Plan . I live in Shiprock . I'm a member of the Navajo Nation . I get my utility bill through the Navajo Tribal Utility Authority , the NTUA, if you will . NTUA buys their electricity from Tucson Electric , which are part owners in PNM . So any decisions made that affect PNM also affects the Navajo Nation .

And as you know , Navajo Nation goes in New Mexico , Arizona and Utah . So , you know , the decisions affect a wide range of people , in a big geographical

area . I worked at PNM , BHP and also on APS on the

con struction side of things . Now my job directly

-- now directly affects people that I send out to these construction jobs . I'm also a member of the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 953 .

And I have a lot of friends and a lot of family

-- some family and a lot of coworkers that are directly affected by any decisions made toward PNM , BHP

or even APS . You know , the friends and family , they

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# 257 maintain a good living , maintain good benefits working at these sites .

The latest concerning PNM is they ' ve abided by all the rules and restrictions made by the EPA , you know , the latest being the 2009 baghouse projects in which I had a lot of coworkers , associates working out there . You know , we bent over backwards to abide by the restrictions that seem to be ever changing concerning these industries .

Every job at APS , PNM and BHP have an economic multiplier which directly affects the community in general , the local businesses , as well as our children and our school districts and stuff . And so , you know , any -- any decision that 's made affects a wide range of people . In worst case scenario , if the restrictions

are too bad , the plants shut down , it 's going to affect

a lot of people . A lot of people are going to be out of jobs , and things aren 't going to look good .

And there 's a big push toward green energy , but one question I want to pose to you is where are you going to get your electricity if the wind 's not blowing and the sun 's not shining ?

I want to thank you for your time , and please adopt the State Implementation Plan .

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Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Benally . Is there anyone else who would like to make

non technical public comment at this time ?

This is the last opportunity . Yes . MS . FALK : Hi . MS . ORTH : I'm sorry . Wait for her first , but I' ll take you next .

MS . FALK : Oh , okay . MS . ORTH : You can both be sworn in . ( EUGENIA QUINTANA and CONSTANCE LUIS FALK were duly sworn or affirmed .) THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . QUINTANA : Eugenia Quintana , E-U-G-E-N-I-A Q-U-I-N-T-A-N-A.

THE REPORTER : Thank you . And your name , please . MS . FALK : My name is Constance Louise Falk , F-A-L-K. THE REPORTER : Thank you .

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EUGENIA QUINTANA having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY MS . QUINTANA : My name is Eugenia Quintana . I'm the environmental department manager for the Navajo Nation Environmental Protection Agency . It 's an office within the executive branch of the Navajo Nation . And I'm here on behalf of the Navajo Environmental Protection Agency to offer some comments .

I wanted to say that the Navajo Nation is supportive of New Mexico 's proposed revisions to the State Implementation Plan for regional haze . New Mexico has their own authority to develop SIP for their jurisdiction , and we support New Mexico doing that , especially when New Mexico has a better understanding of the regional context and how to weigh the complete considerations in that regard .

Why is the Navajo Nation interested ? The Navajo Nation is

-- is home to about 280 , 000 Navajo people . The Navajo Nation covers more than 27 , 000 square miles within the exterior boundaries of Arizona , New Mexico and Utah . It also occupies 13 counties in those states , and it is a place of great scenic beauty .

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There is little economic development on the Navajo Nation , and Navajo people who live there are the poorest -- among the poorest in the US . 48 percent are

un employed , and 40 percent are below the federal poverty line . Our living conditions are substandard compared to the rest of the United States . 31 percent of Navajo homes do not have complete plumbing . 28 percent do not have operational kitchen facilities . 30 percent do not have water services . 32 percent are without electricity . 86 percent do not have natural gas services . 60 percent of homes do not have telephone services . The Navajo Nation 's most valuable and saleable natural re source are its coal reserves . The Navajo Nation is dependent on coal . They have been so for many years , and we so are very much dependent on coal .

The two power -- there are two power plants on the Navajo Nation , the Four Corners Power Plant and the Navajo Generating Station . These two power plants were specifically planned for and located exactly where they are to provide for and sell coal and provide a market for Navajo coal .

The income from Four Corners a nd Navajo Generating Station provide many direct and indirect

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# 261 contributions to the Navajo Nation . These indirect and direct contributions are substantial to the Navajo Nation 's economic viability , including the health and welfare of the Navajo people and to the sustainability of the Navajo Nation as an independent sovereign nation .

The San Juan Generating Station and the supplying mine , the San Juan Mine , also contribute to the regional economy and provide hundreds of jobs to Navajo workers , contractors and subcontractors . Approximately 22 percent of San Juan Generating Plant workers are Navajo , and about 45 percent of the San Juan Mine workforce are also Navajo

-- Navajo tribal members .

The Navajo Nation is situated where three power plants are located . And I just name d those , the Four Corners Power Plant and the Navajo Genera ting Station , including the San Juan Generating Station . All three power plants contribute to the Navajo Nation economy , and all three power plants and their supplying mines contribute to the tribal economy and the regional economic dynamics .

I would also like to mention that there are also additional emission sources , both major and minor

sources , within the region , that all contribute in varying percentages to emissions , and these aren 't just emissions from the power plants .

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The Navajo Nation also recently expressed

concerns to USEPA Region 6 regarding USEPA 's proposed BART for San Juan Generating Station . The proposed EPA BART determination has implications for the Navajo Nation tribal trust interests .

Although the San Juan Generating Station is located outside the jurisdiction of the Navajo Nation , it is nevertheless a facility with significant impacts

on both the Navajo Nation and the regional economy .

Some of the positive impacts of the San Juan Generating Station that we hear quite frequently are PNM scholarships and the contributions to non profit organizations that use the contributions to address issues within their own specific communities .

The BART determination proposed for San Juan Generating Station , including NGS and Four Corners

-- I'm sure the Board members are aware that US EPA is also proposing BART for two power plants on the Navajo Nation , for Four Corners and for NGS. USEPA Region 9 is planning to propose BART for NGS sometime this summer . They have recently taken comments on BART for Four Corners . BART determinations for all these three power plants within one to two years time frame could have significant impacts to the Navajo Nation , particularly

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# 263

to the Navajo work forces at each of these plants . The subsequent rippling effect has the potential to exact exponential detrimental impacts if BART determinations result in exorbitant costs for compliance and too stringent compliance scheduling .

We have also been concerned over USEPA 's proposed compliance scheduling for San Juan Generating Station . It requires installation of SCR on all units within three years of promulgation of the EPA BART FIP for San Juan Generating Station , while the Regional Haze Rule actually allows for five years for compliance .

I also wanted to interject and highlight that the closure of the Mohave Generating Station on the western side of the Navajo Nation is directly attributable to similar USEPA rulemaking . Closure of Mohave , in turn , resulted in the closure of the Black Mesa mine and the loss of significant royalty revenues to the Navajo Nation .

While San Juan Generating Station is not burning down with coal , there still are considerable regional economic effects which cumulatively would dramatically impact the Navajo Nation if the San Juan Generating Station were forced to close because of the proposed USEPA BART rulemaking .

A comment about health . The Navajo Nation is

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concerned about health , both on the Navajo Nation and regionally . However , BART that is being proposed for San Juan Generating Station is supposed to be about visibility , not about health , and in the context of our

concern about health , we have specifically asked USEPA Region 6 to consider pursuing health studies in collaboration with the Navajo Nation , New Mexico and other stakeholders , so we can get a better idea of the baseline data that we can use to perhaps model and further analyze and make some better assumptions about the direct impacts of the major sources upon the health of people in the region .

In conclusion , the Navajo Nation is supportive of New Mexico 's proposed revisions to the State Implementation Plan for regional haze because the existing and proposed SNCR controls on all the units will achieve reasonable progress in order to meet the visibility goals of the Regional Haze Rule by 20 64.

That 's it . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Quintana . Ms . Falk .

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# 265

CONSTANCE LOUISE FALK having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY MS . FALK : Hi . I'm planning to move to this community within the next couple of years . I bought a home here . I' ll be retiring . I'm a professor of agriculture and economics at New Mexico State University .

And of course , I'm very concerned about potential to my own health to moving into a region that

-- as I understand it -- I'm not well informed , but as I understand it , it 's -- these power plants produce some of the greatest amounts of air pollution than any power plants in the country .

And if I'm not mistaken in that understanding , then my perspective on that is that this community has been then

-- been allowed to be kind of a sacrifice zone for whatever particular interests are behind that .

And I understand the Navajo Nation 's concern about jobs , and certainly we can quantify the loss of those jobs , and maybe that 's why we tend to make decisions based on those jobs , and we don 't quantify the externalities associated with a lot of pollution . We don 't quantify . And even the person that came before me

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# 266 said that we should study the health effects .

But we do know that all of these

-- this particulate matter in the air has health effects on children . And they can 't come here and speak to you , and they can 't come here and make their case about their lifelong problems with breathing and asthma .

And so I think that instead of just focusing on the things that are easily quantified , which are potential jobs lost , which , in my mind , hasn 't been established , because other power plants in the country have very easily up graded .

So instead of just concentrating on those easily quantifiable impacts , we should think more about the more difficult things to quantify , which are the externalities associated with widespread health impacts that this community has long suffered from and that I fear will also impact me when I move here .

And another sort of un quantifiable economic impact that probably is never really talked about is the potential to draw many more retirees such as myself to this community who would be drawn here if they knew that this was a clean environment and that they could see the beautiful natural wonders that exist here in this region . And so those are the kind of the main points

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# 267

that I would hope you consider , is some of those hard to quantify externalities , and looking at those more carefully , and not just basing your decision on the easily quantified potentially loss of jobs .

And certainly we know there 's lots of information available about the green energy economy and how more jobs can be created through that than the number of jobs that would be lost in the old way . They ' re going to go by the wayside anyway .

We know that the fossil fuel era has to come to an end , it will come to an end , and so why not bring it to an end in a way that 's rational and makes a trans ition to a clean energy economy and one that provides jobs here at San Juan College . They have an internationally known program in green energy , and there 's no reason why that program can 't be extended to the Navajo Nation to train lots of people in green energy jobs .

Thank you very much . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Ms . Falk . Is there anyone else ? I see a gentleman .

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RUDY MOYA having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . MOYA : My name is Rudy Moya . I' ve been in this area since 19 71.

I'm a business agent for the laborers union hall in Farmington . I' ve worked in the power plant for many years . You know , most of my members in this area

are hard

- working laborers . I got over 400 or 500 people working , not at work

-- not working now . Maybe about 80 percent -- 80 people are working now .

When we got these turnarounds , they look forward to their jobs . And they also like to go for their pension . We got credits . And a lot of people are coming from Arizona , Utah , Colorado , just to get these jobs , and make a good living , and they have a good pension . And I can see San Juan County going down . San Juan Power Plant has always provided work for us , and Four Corners , also .

All I can ask on behalf of my members and the people in Farmington area in

-- and the Navajo Nation , if we can do something about working with the power

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# 269 plants , you know , if they have to fix something , more work for the people . That 's all I ask for San Juan and the members in this area .

That 's it . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Moya . MR . MOYA : I have a little proposal here for

our area , they may want to look at it .

MS . ORTH : Bring it up here , please . Is there anyone else who would like to make

non technical public comment ?

This is the last opportunity before we close the record .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Madam Hearing Examiner , PNM does have some written public comment that we would like to submit at this time . It is primarily directed to

some of the public comment with respect to health effects . I' ve got a number of copies here

--

MS . ORTH : Great . MR . ALVIDREZ : -- but it should be sufficient . MS . ORTH : Thank you . Anything else at all before we close the record ? MR . ALVIDREZ : Madam Hearing Examiner , again , I don 't -- certainly don 't want to prolong this . PNM is

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# 270 very anxious , of course , to have the Board take action

on this matter .

I know that we ' re dealing with some very significant technical issues and that the Board has had

an opportunity to certainly review the testimony that 's been filed here , the public comments and also hear the summary testimony .

We do have the representatives from Black & Veatch here in the event that , you know , through the

course of the evening last night or reviewing the testimony , any questions came up , we 'd be glad to present them , provide the Board with an opportunity of

some follow

- up questions , if they have any .

Certainly completely at the discretion of the Board , but we want to be helpful and provide the Board with as much information as we possibly can to help the m deliberate and make a decision in this case .

I would also ask that the parties be provided with at least a few minutes

-- since we ' re not going to have briefing or anything like that in this case , a few minutes to make some closing comments , as well .

That 's all I would ask . Thank you . MS . ORTH : All right . Anything

-- do you have anything to add , Mr . Grantham .

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MR . GRANTHAM : Madam Hearing Officer , the Department also has our witnesses here today , and we

were of the assumption that there would be an opportunity for additional questions either by the Board

or some of the public for the Department 's technical witnesses . MS . ORTH : All right .

Board , do you have a record upon which you would like to deliberate , or do you have additional questions either of the Department panel or the PNM panel ? MS . PEACOCK : I have a question for PNM .

MS . ORTH : You do . All right . And would this be from the Black & Veatch witnesses ? MS . PEACOCK : Maybe just Mr . Alvidrez .

MS . ORTH : Oh . All right . Let 's give it a shot . MR . ALVIDREZ : Certainly . MS . PEACOCK : As you ' ve heard over the last couple of days , it 's likely that the EPA will probably not adopt the SIP .

What is PNM

-- well , what is the process that PNM is going to follow with the

-- waiting for the EPA to say yes or no , and then what will happen ?

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MR . ALVIDREZ : Well , you raised a very good point , and I'm sure it 's one that is heavy on the mind of the Board members . And I think it 's very important to clarify where the EPA is with respect to this process . Now , what EPA has done is it has issued a proposed SIP

-- FIP . It is nothing more than a proposal at this point . It is not final . It 's not binding . EPA is still deliberating on it . It has received over 4, 500 comments , as I understand it , with respect to its proposed BART determination .

And so I think that it really kind of short changes the EPA to some extent to think that that 's

a done deal . And I want to impress upon this Board that this Board 's action to adopt the NMED proposal will have

a profound effect in Region 6, in Dallas , with respect to its proposal .

Now , the EPA has gone to federal court and asked for an extension of time in August so that this Board could act and adopt a State Implementation Plan on regional haze and the other proceeding that 's going to follow shortly after this with respect to the interstate transport , so that they can consider this matter and take action .

I can also tell the Board that following the

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comment period that PNM made , where PNM submitted comments , that two weeks ago the EPA came to the San Juan Generating Station , for the first time , by the way , with respect to the BART analysis , to actually look at the station , see how it 's configured and see whether or not , you know , the numbers that PNM has submitted through Black & Veatch make sense .

So I don 't want the Board to think that this is a futile effort , that there 's, you know , no significance to what they

-- what the Board might do with respect to the NMED proposal .

What I can tell you is that it will have an impact , that the EPA is going to have to answer some tough questions . They ' re going to have to answer why their economic analysis is so different from the analysis that the state has approved .

And I will tell you that one of the things that we know of that EPA analysis , it 's done by the book , and that when EPA was looking at the San Juan Generating Station , all they did was Google it . They looked at it on a Google map and said , " Oh , yeah ."

And it 's a very different thing when you get on the ground and actually look at the plant , see how it 's configured , see what the controls are that are on there , where you have to work and what the costs are

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# 274 involved . So I think that 's a very significant issue .

The other thing about the EPA proposal is that I think there 's a lot of people that are misunderstanding . It 's a regional haze SIP or regional haze FIP . It is not .

What it is is an interstate transport FIP that , for whatever reason , EPA decided they wanted to go ahead and make a BART determination in the context of that rather than a full regional haze Federal Implementation Plan . It falls far short and is very different from what the NMED has proposed , which is a comprehensive plan .

If you read the EPA Federal Implementation Plan , they read ily admit , " We ' re not even addressing SO 2 

## , which is probably the largest contributor of regional haze . We ' ll wait , and we ' ll address that sometime later ." But the package that the NMED has submitted is

a full package . It addresses both the regional haze requirements , and it also addresses the interstate transport visibility component . It is the full package .

And by the way , as the EPA readily admits , it 's had the state interstate transport SIP pending before it since 2003 and didn 't take action .

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So there are a lot of tough questions the EPA is going to have to answer if this Board adopts the NMED proposal . It really is going to have to address why it has come to a different conclusion , based on its very extenuating study , why it shouldn 't give deference , as Mr . Cline suggested , with respect to the state 's determination about what is right for New Mexico and the region . And so I don 't want this Board to go away with the idea that , you know , this is a fool 's errand . It will be meaningful . It will have an impact that EPA will have to consider .

MS . ORTH : Anything else before we -- yeah . Member Ryan . MS . RYAN : I do have a question for PNM 's technical witnesses .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Certainly . They ' re -- for the court reporter , it might be

-- MS . ORTH : Yes .

MR . ALVIDREZ : -- helpful so she can -- MS . ORTH : We ' re re calling for the moment Ms . Fischer and Mr . Lucas , Black & Veatch panel . They gave full testimony yesterday .

Ms . Fischer and Mr . Lucas , you ' re still under

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# 276

oath . DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS having been previously duly sworn or affirmed , were examined and testified further as follows :

FURTHER EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MS . ORTH : Member Ryan . MS . RYAN : Yes . Thank you for being available today for follow

- up questions .

And this came to me as I was driving to the San Juan area yesterday from Santa Fe , and the wind was blowing , seemingly 900 miles an hour . We had dust blowing everywhere , clouds building . It looked

-- rain in some places . And I saw a haze .

And I started to think about what was in the haze and all of the contributing factors , not only the pollution , you know , NO x 

## and CO 2 

## , that we ' ve been talking about , but I was seeing the dirt being blown up like this , and I was thinking how much of that is dirt

-- my husband and I were discussing it

-- how much of that is dirt , how much of that is NO x 

## , how much of that is CO 2 

## , and how are we quantifying that and looking at visibility .

And if we ' re supposed to be looking at visibility , I'm just -- I am not a scientist , I'm a

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# 277 lawyer , so far cry from , but could you attempt at all

-- and in the re search that your company did in coming up with its analysis to take in other variables in the haze issue for this particular area ?

Sorry , that 's a long question . MR . LUCAS : You asked some very intuitive questions there .

While I can 't speak about yesterday , and the specifics of yesterday

--

( Discussion off the record .) MR . LUCAS : While I can 't speak for yesterday 's specific conditions , I'm from Kansas , and what it looked like to me was just a dusty , rainy event on the drive up .

Specifically with yesterday , there was a lot of moisture in the air . And as part of the visibility analysis , it does take into account moisture variables and relative humidity . That is one contributing factor to the visibility component or the visibility equation .

The equation also takes into account sulfates and nitrates . It takes into account various sizes of particulate matter , organic aerosols and other

-- other pollutants that has gone through various rounds of studies . And so when we spoke yesterday of the analysis

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# 278

done to look at the baseline conditions at San Juan --

MS . RYAN : Right . MR . LUCAS : -- as compared to the conditions of the additional control technology evaluations , each of that

-- each of those analyses takes into account all of those variables that are available through the modeling methodology we proposed through the protocol document , and looks at it equally through the same meteorological data .

MS . RYAN : Okay . So it all was considered in coming up with your baseline .

MR . LUCAS : All is all inclusive . I'm going to say -- MS . RYAN : Right .

MR . LUCAS : -- that within the guidelines provided to us and the methodology proposed , it was considered .

MS . RYAN : Okay . MS . FISCHER : Kyle , can I ask you a question ? When she 's talking about dust flying up in the air , that 's called fugitive dust . That 's the technical term for it .

Is fugitive dust in that number , or not ? MR . LUCAS : There is a value of particulate

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# 279

matter considered at each of the Class I areas , and the guidelines have published certain values and attributes various components to that equation that over all come back into the model and are reviewed through the baseline to AQC technology review .

MS . RYAN : So when we were talking yesterday about a 2.5 basically visible change , that is only in application to just the particular technology proposed by the SIP , and just as to those particular pollutants , not as to the other variables that contribute to visibility in this community .

MR . LUCAS : The

-- it is correct that the 2.5 deciviews was for the SNCR technology . The improvements gained between baseline and that technology addition on

a facility basis , both between the baseline and the AQC analysis , the same variables were looked at and used , the sulfates and nitrates , moisture , particulate matter , organic aerosols and so forth , to make it on an equivalent basis , so that you can see the improvements by looking at each technology option that was chosen to be feasible .

MS . RYAN : Okay . MS . FISCHER : So if I -- I think what you ' re askin g is does the model kind of throw all those things that you ' re talking about into the model before , and

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then look at if we change something , are all those same things in the model , and so that the only difference is the control technology ? Is that what you ' re asking ?

MR . LUCAS : I should also include that

-- MS . FISCHER : Is that true ? Is the only difference

--

MR . LUCAS : Yes . It 's -- MS . FISCHER : Okay . MR . LUCAS : The only change between the two

are operational characteristics of the equipment and the machinery and so forth .

Additionally , when we ' re building a database to run in the model , we do take into account a three

- dimensional meteorological field , we take into account precipitation data , we take into account ozone data , ammonia data that 's available . So there are other pieces that go into the

-- the base model that we look at . MS . RYAN : That answers my question .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Other questions of the Black & Veatch panel ?

Member Fulfer . MR . FULFER : Only what is your baseline year that you ' re using ? Is it from 2005 ? 2009 ?

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MR . LUCAS : Since there was so much complicated data that goes into the model , the database

was the years 2001 , '2 and '3, and that is the standardized data set that is typically used in this

area . And certain different areas of the country have different data sets that they use . This is one that was proposed within the methodology .

MR . FULFER : So are you able to take into account some of the retrofit that they ' ve done before ?

MR . LUCAS : The meteorological was standardized for both the baseline condition as well as the AQC analyses . Within the baseline condition , the operational characteristics of the plant included the consent decree controls that were discussed earlier , the $ 320 million of add

- ons between 2005 and 2009 . So it takes into account those additional NO x 

## combustion controls and chose operational characteristics as part of that baseline .

MS . FISCHER : So we took the '01 to '03 data , which didn 't have the consent decree stuff in , we modeled that , and then we modeled it with the consent decree stuff on it , and then we modeled it with the additional items that we looked at for BART . So there were kind of three steps because of that situation .

Is that what you ' re asking ?

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MR . FULFER : Yeah . MS . RYAN : Can you address the first baseline model that you came up from 2001 to 2003 to the

-- when the new retrofit technology was implemented at the plant ? MR . LUCAS : What was submitted as part of the SIP was the consent decree controls , we call it the 2005 , and the AQC technology , that 's NCR. Previously , we also looked at -- outside of that analysis the pre consent decree controls to the consent decree and the visibility gained from less NO x 

## control , which was -- I'm not -- I don 't have the specific number . I think it was about a .4 pound per million NO x 

## -- I might be mistaken

on that

-- down to that .3 from the consent decree .

MS . RYAN : Okay . MR . LUCAS : So we looked at that emission reduction , and that had some visibility improvement . And then we looked for the purposes of BART , the reduction that we would see from the consent decree at the .3 level , down to the . 23 level with SNCR . The . 23 level is the presumptive level

--

MS . RYAN : Right . MR . LUCAS : -- for this type of boiler and this type of fuel .

And so what you see at that . 25 is just the

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-- or the betterment of the consent decree or our baseline to the SNCR technology . As we discussed yesterday , it 's a cumulative effect at each of the Class I areas . If you were to look at it that way , you could say that between the un controlled San Juan Generating Station before the consent decree

--

MS . RYAN : Right . MR . LUCAS : -- to the SNCR control , you would have an additive at each Class I area --

MS . RYAN : Right . MR . LUCAS : -- of San Juan 's benefit of going to that

-- let 's say .4 --

MS . RYAN : Okay . MR . LUCAS : -- don 't quote me on that number

-- but to the . 23 .

MS . RYAN : Okay . MR . LUCAS : You 'd have that additional which is not part of the . 25

--

MS . RYAN : Um - hum . MR . LUCAS : -- to the consent decree . MS . RYAN : Okay . MR . LUCAS : To help you illustrate

-- visibility is a hard

-- hard concept when you ' re looking at deciviews and how much you would actually achieve .

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As part of the hearing that happened a couple of months ago , the

-- some graphics were produced . These are the wind haze program . It 's available as a freeware off the National Park Service web site . Within that , you look at specific Class I areas . And each has specific background conditions .

What was done was that the various control technology scenarios , the pre controlled , controlled and SNCR , SCR , were looked at and overlaid on a representative Class I area .

These graphics that we have here are representative

-- we ' ll call it Mesa Verde . The software doesn 't have graphics for Mesa Verde as a Class I area . The Colorado SIP used something very similar , but they used Canyon lands as representative due to similarities in topography .

So what we have done is overlaid those various scenarios as far as what visibility would look like as a change between one scenario and another scenario over Canyonlands . And these might help illustrate or may have

-- bring up other questions you -- that you may have but . MS . RYAN : Yes . Thank you .

MR . LUCAS : This might be helpful . MR . ALVIDREZ : And I would note these are in

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the record . They are attached as exhibits to Mr . Themig 's testimony . It 's actually PNM 's comments to the EPA . It 's EJT Exhibit 2, and this is Appendix 5.

But this is a very good illustration of

-- this is what

-- this is a depiction of the area before any control , before the San Juan up grades that we ' ve talked about .

This is a picture of after the up grades have been made , the $ 320 million have been spent .

And this is a picture of what you would get after you spend a billion dollars . So what we ' re talking about is a difference between this picture and this picture for a billion dollars .

MR . BRYCE : Can you show those to the audience , also ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : Absolutely . MS . FISCHER : I feel a little like Vanna . MR . ALVIDREZ : And these pictures are screen captures right off of the National Park Service web site . You can go and look

-- independently verify and put in the deciview changes yourself and confirm .

You know , but our conclusion was there 's not a whole lot of difference for a billion dollars .

MR . VOLKERDING : And then do you have a picture with the state BART ?

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MR . ALVIDREZ : We don 't have a picture

-- MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MR . ALVIDREZ : -- of the SNCR . MR . LUCAS : But it would be less

-- MR . VOLKERDING : Right . It would be in between . I just

-- yeah .

MR . LUCAS : So yesterday when we were speaking of that one deciview is about a 10 percent change and trying to kind of understand that change , this is the

-- probably the closest illustration we might be able to provide . MS . RYAN : That was helpful . Thank you .

MS . ORTH : Other Board questions ? No . Is there any cross - examination based on that testimony ? MR . GRANTHAM : No . No questions .

MS . ORTH : All right . Anything else , Mr . Alvidrez ? MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes . If I could , just a follow

- up question . FURTHER DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ALVIDREZ :

MR . ALVIDREZ : With respect to the haze that you -- I assume you drove up yesterday and saw the haze ,

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as well

-- MR . LUCAS : Yes , I did .

MR . ALVIDREZ : -- like Board Member Ryan has referred to .

And in terms of that haze , is that what you

saw consistent with a NO x 

## plume ?

MR . LUCAS : No . As I mentioned , it was more consistent with what I' ve seen with just a meteorological event , a rainstorm .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And is there a color characteristic associated with a NO x 

## plume commonly noted . MR . LUCAS : Typically with NO x 

## or nitrates , you ' ll see a yellow or brown type of plume , if you were looking at a power plant stack or downstream from that . And on the drive up , I did not see stacks or plumes specifically on the drive .

MR . ALVIDREZ : That 's all my questions . MS . ORTH : All right . Is there any reason not to excuse the Black & Veatch panel again ?

No ? Thank you very much , Ms . Fischer and Mr . Lucas . A couple of us need a break . But let me ask

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before we do that if we can get to the closure of the evidentiary record , parties , presumably you ' ve had an opportunity to look at the document Mr . Alvidrez handed

me titled Comments of Public Service Company in Response to Public Comment s Relating to Alleged Health Effects , clearly technical testimony in the form of rebuttal .

Were there objections to the admission of this packet ? MR . GRANTHAM : Madam Hearing Officer , I don 't believe I' ve seen that .

MS . ORTH : All right . Mr . Rose , have you seen it ? No . Okay . It 's titled Public Health Analysis of Air Emission s Impacts from the San Juan Generating Station . It was prepared by Gradient Corporation .

MR . GRANTHAM : Madam Hearing Officer , we have

no objections .

MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you . MR . CASCIANO : I have a question , Hearing Officer . So this is being offered as public comment

versus technical testimony ?

MS . ORTH : No , sir . Member Casciano , this is technical testimony which is allowed to come in

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# 289 notwithstanding the fact that it was not part of the notice of intent because it 's in the form of rebuttal . And it appears to be proper rebuttal to my eyes . If Mr . Rose or Mr . Roybal wants to argue other wise , I' ll certainly hear their objection at this time .

MR . ROYBAL : San Juan has no objection . MR . ROSE : I have no objection to it . MS . ORTH : All right . Thank you . In that case , it 's admitted . ( Exhibit PNM A admitted into evidence .) MS . ORTH : The Board may rely on -- on the document . Is there any reason , then , not to close the evidentiary record ?

No ? All right . Hearing

-- hearing nothing , we will close the evidentiary record at this moment .

We will take a 10

- to 15

- minute break . When

we return , we will have closing arguments from any party who wishes to offer it . That would be Mr . Alvidrez , Mr . Grantham , Mr . Rose or Mr . Roybal . And then the Board can move into deliberations .

Thank you . Let 's take a break . ( Proceedings in recess from 11:38 a.m. to

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11:57 a.m. ) MS . ORTH : Let 's come back from the break , please . All right . We ' re coming back from the break in EIB 11-01. This is proposed revisions to the State Implementation Plan for regional haze .

The evidentiary record is closed . We will now have closing arguments from the parties .

Mr . Grantham , would you like to start ? And let me ask all counsel to come down here

so we can hear you .

MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you , Madam Hearing Officer , members of the Board .

We ' ve been in hearing for quite some time , so I will be brief and allow you to get to your deliberations . But I do have a few closing remarks .

First of all , I want to emphasize that the visibility is a valid concern . It 's an important public welfare criterion . And it has been decided by Congress that visibility is an issue that needs to be addressed in Class I areas .

So the issue before you is not whether visibility is

-- we ' re considering a balance against jobs or other considerations . This Board has to enact a State Implementation Plan to address visibility , or EPA

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will do a federal plan .

However , visibility does require a balancing as it would any type of environmental regulation , and the criteria for that balancing are established by Congress in the Clean Air Act .

As Mr . Cline testified to , I think very accurately and eloquently , the criteria in particular for the BART determination are in the act , and they are the cost of compliance , the remaining useful life of the

source , the energy and nonair impacts , and the existing pollution control technology , and the degree of visibility improvement .

The act

-- the Clean Air Act and case law under the visibility provisions of the act establish that the state has wide discretion in making a determination for the BART determination . Mr . Cline also testified to that .

And I would add that

-- he talked about the provisions , the BART guidelines that were established in 19 80 and are reasonably

-- considerable visibility impairment provisions , as a more accurate reflection or interpretation of the act , because it was more contemporaneous with the 19 77 amendments .

However , I would just add that even under the 2005 guidelines that we are operating under here today

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for making BART determinations , the guidelines provide a methodology that the state has to follow , and they give the state some guidance on how to weigh

-- not -- on how to consider the factors .

But ultimately , it comes down to a decision . And the 2005 guidelines that we operate under don 't provide and they can 't provide a quantitative way to reach that ultimate decision .

I think the exchange between Member Ryan and the technical witnesses really kind of brought that into focus , that what we ' re looking at here as far as the BART determination is

-- really comes down to two options . One would give but a quarter of a deciview improvement for about $ 75 million , and the other a larger deciview improvement for $ 700 million .

And the guidelines can 't tell you how to balance those two . There 's no formula you can plug those into .

It 's the Department 's position that either of those would

-- either SCR or SNCR is within the state 's discretion to determine . What the

-- the tipping point for our analysis was the ratepayer cost . The cost is a consideration . That is one of the factors established by the act .

Benefits

-- the health benefits are not a

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factor in making a BART determination , presumably because Congress feel that there are other provisions to address health affects , such as the National Ambient Air Quality Standards .

So in determining whether the state should exercise its discretion and require more than the presumptive standards , which SNCR meets , the ratepayer cost was -- was the tipping point , and that is why the state 's BART determination ended up where it is .

I'd just also like to re mind the Board that there

-- the BART determination is not the only provision of this rulemaking . There are also revisions to Section 309 , the 2003 SIP and technical demonstrations done to satisfy the requirements of 309 (g) to extend the 309 program to other Class I areas , and there is substantial evidence in the record supporting that .

So I would respectfully request the Board to approve NMED 's proposed SIP for 309 and 309 (g), and also just point out that in the

-- in our pleadings , there is

a proposed statement of reasons at Exhibit 19 , which the Board can use to document and memorialize its decision should it reach that decision here today .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Grantham .

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Mr . Alvidrez ? MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes , Madam Hearing Examiner , Madam Chair , members of the Board .

I'd like to first open by thanking you very much for your time and your consideration in this case . We understand that you are a volunteer b oard , that you ' re not paid to tend to this very important business , and that it is very difficult , it is very time

- consuming . And I think it 's very commendable to have all of you here during this entire hearing to hear this very important case .

And so please accept my thanks on behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico for your hard work and your dedication .

I want to talk a little bit about , of course , the BART determination for San Juan Generating Station , and I hope that with the testimony that has been provided and the comments that have been provided by a number of people , that the Board has a solid understanding of what we ' re dealing with and what the issues are for consideration .

And we ' ve provided information about visibility impacts , about what the BART process is , and have , you know , illustrated or attempted to illustrate with these exhibits about what an investment of a

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# 295 billion dollars

-- what the difference is .

And while we certainly don 't want to minimize the importance of visibility , say that it 's not something that needs to be considered by the Board

-- it absolutely does

-- we do think that you do have to look at the cost as factor .

And when you analyze the tremendous costs in terms of impacts to ratepayers , in terms of potential impacts to the Four Corners area , we think , as the New Mexico Environment Department believes , that the balance tips in favor of something less than SCR , that is that SNCR is the correct answer for New Mexico .

And in making this determination , we are , of

course , filling a very important statutory duty , both under the Clean Air Act and under our own New Mexico Air Quality Control Act .

And , you know , there were a lot of questions about , well , with SNCR , it costs $ 77 million , and we only get an imperceptible improvement in visibility . So why should we cause the ratepayers to even pay that amount ? Well , there 's a very important reason why , and that is that that SNCR technology gets you to the presumptive limit . The presumptive limit has legal significance in terms of how the EPA has to judge the

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State Implementation Plan . The EPA set that standard and said , " This is what we expect facilities to meet ."

And with the SNCR , we can meet it , San Juan will be able to meet it , And this Board will have satisfied its legal requirements in terms of the types of controls , NO x 

## controls , that are required for San Juan . That 's why it 's worth the $ 77 million to spend to get , even though it 's a small improvement , an improvement . We also note that it will also reduce NO x 

## emissions , which is a good thing . It 's not an insignificant amount . It 's almost 5, 000 tons per year .

There 's been a lot of discussion about what 's happening around the country in terms of EPA and their involvement in SCR technology , and we did provide the Board , again attached to Mr . Themig 's testimony in PJT-2, Attachment A, a list that was current , at least as of April 4 th , of various power plants around the country , and the proposed BART determinations for the various plants .

So I hope you ' ll take a little bit of time to look at it , because you will see that while there are a number of plants for which SCR has been determined or proposed is appropriate , there are many , many more plants where other technologies , including SCR , SNCR ,

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# 297 have been determined appropriate , and even many , many

more where the combustion controls as we ' ve talked about , the existing controls that are in effect at San Juan , have been proposed as approved .

Now , in many cases , it still remains to be seen what 's going to happen , but I think it 's important that if you look at the EPA 's own guidelines , their own guidance in this area , here is what they say about SCR .

These guidelines were published in their 2005 preamble , and it says , " Although states may in specific

cases find that the use of SCR is appropriate , we have not determined that SCR is generally cost effective for BART across unit times ."

So using the EPA 's own criteria , SCR is not something that they presume is going to be the appropriate technology . In fact , if you read the EPA BART guidelines , they believe that combustion controls

are appropriate . That is the low NO x 

## burners over air that 's in effect at San Juan currently .

When we ' re talking about SCR and SNCR , we ' re talking about postcombustion controls . That 's, you know , after the coal has been combusted and it 's going out the

-- the exhaust , if you will .

So in closing , we believe that the proposal that has been submitted by the New Mexico Environment

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# 298 Department is a very comprehensive , very thoughtful and certainly very defensible proposal . It 's appropriate for the State of New Mexico , and it reaches the appropriate balance of the various interests that this Board is to consider in adopting a regional haze State Implementation Plan .

And with that , we would urge the Board 's approval of the New Mexico Environment Department 's SIP

as proposed .

Thank you . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Alvidrez . Mr . Roybal , do you have closing comments ? MR . ROYBAL : Very briefly , Madam Hearing Officer , members of the Board .

Again , thank you for your efforts in coming to Farmington , San Juan County .

We hope that what we offered this morning through Mr . Cline 's testimony and his analysis of the history and substance of the Clean Air Act and its regulations addressing regional haze will give the Board comfort that its proposed action , the adoption of the NMED proposal , is not only appropriate and in keeping with the provisions and requirements of the act , but is the right decision to make .

The inter change with Mr . Cline and the Board ,

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we thought , was a very positive demonstration of the diligence and interest of the

-- of the Board .

And I just report to you that Mr . Cline , as

someone who has been working in this area for many , many years and who cares about the substance of the law , and in this area specifically

-- he commends the Board for its questions and its engagement in this issue , and he again has worked a long time in this area , and he 's always happy when he can participate in an effort like this one , and see that the decision

- making process where the state bodies that have to work in this very technical area is being implemented in this way .

So I think hopefully , again , that inter change with Mr . Cline will give you some comfort that the Board will be taking an appropriate action .

And the second

-- our second witness hopefully will give you some indication of the impact of the Board 's decision on the community here and on the specific people . Mr . Benally worked for his whole

career with our company and in support of this power plant . Lucinda Bennalley , the representative of one of the chapters that is most closely impacted by the mine and power plant , should give you again an indication of how your decision will impact our

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# 300 community . And we thank you for your efforts .

Close with that . MS . ORTH : Thank you , Mr . Roybal . Mr . Rose , do you have anything to add ? MR . ROSE : Nothing to add , Madam Hearing Officer . MS . ORTH : Thank you .

Those are the closing arguments , then , Board . And I will turn the imaginary gavel back to the chair . MS . PEACOCK : Thank you .

And thank you everyone for providing testimony and comments today . We really appreciate it , and we ' ve learned a lot in the last couple of days .

So we ' re going to move into deliberations on 11-01, and does anyone want to start ?

MS . RYAN : I'm getting several looks from the Board , so -- I don 't know whether that 's because they want to get -- they know I'm talkative and want me to get it out of the way or because they legitimately want to hear what I have to say .

So I'm going to go with the later

-- with the latter . I would just like to state that for me

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# 301 personally , and I know probably for other members of our Board , that there 's been the rhetoric used the past couple days of that this is a moral issue . And I happen to completely agree with that . It is a moral issue . It is a moral issue .

The public health of our state is a moral issue . The economic impact , the loss of jobs are an economic issue . Our environment

-- the state of our environment and needing to protect what I believe God has given us is absolutely a moral issue . And that is the reason that I agreed to be a member of this Board .

So I do appreciate those comments and take them very personally . So thank you to those of you who have raised those .

But as a member of the Board , I am -- I have to make my decisions in accordance with the guidelines set forth in the Air Quality Control Act more specifically , and then also within the guidelines set forth in BART .

And to just recap , our guidelines and implementation of the SIP are under the Air Quality Control Act and not the Environmental Improvement Act , and those guidelines are separate , and they do put on this Board factors that we have to take into consideration when we ' re making a decision to implement

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# 302 regulations under the Air Quality Control Act .

And those are character and degree of injury to or interference with health , welfare , visibility and property ; two , the public interest , including the social and economic value of the sources and subjects of air contaminants ; and , three , technical practicability and economic reasonableness of reducing or eliminating air contaminants from the sources involved ; and previous experience with equipment and methods available to control the air contaminants involved .

We have heard

-- and that

-- and taking that into consideration of the five factors that we must weigh under BART , public health is not one of them , and we do not have , you know , any technical testimony

-- because of that , we do not have any technical testimony

or evidence to consider with regard to the impact of that . However , I do anticipate that in other hearings and in other things that our Environmental Department does , that we will be taking those into very careful consideration .

But today , we are particularly focused on visibility and the regional haze and specifically in this area of the state , and also the economic reasonableness and impact to the community , as well as

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the value of the resources in this community .

So all of that considered , members of the Board , and those present today , my vote would be to support the NMED 's and PNM 's proposal for the State Implementation Plan .

And I would like to recognize the efforts by the New Mexico Environmental Department to do its best to really focus on what is best for our state and not just let the federal government come in and tell us what to do . And I really appreciate all of the hard work that you have done to do what is best for us and to keep local

-- what affects us locally local .

And as well as PNM for its efforts previously spending the 3 20 million to improve its

-- its facilities and its output and to determine your own destiny on how you want to be a member of our society and productive and also your steps to even further that with the SIP .

So thank you to PNM and the coal plant for continuing to take steps to move that forward .

So that will be my vote today . MS . PEACOCK : Any others ? MR . BRYCE : I' ll go ahead and give my thoughts .

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We ' ve heard from a lot of people in public comment and a lot of good information from those who are also affected through the business world , and we ' ve had

some people suggest that we should do less than SNCR , that even the $ 77 million is

-- for a little bit of visibility doesn 't seem like a wise investment .

We ' ve got others saying they 'd like to do the maximum because they just want the cleanest air , they 'd love to have natural visibility to day .

The hybrid , which is right in the middle , proved to be not cost effective to invest that kind of money for not that much more significant results than the SNCR , it didn 't seem very wise .

So it really did boil down to SNCR versus SCR , which is where we started , of course .

The whole SIP

-- you know , typically the Board will spend a lot of time going through every single word of the SIP . Seeing that we had a foot stack of papers , we didn 't spend probably quite as much time as all the verbiage of the plan .

But it 's obvious that we have to submit a SIP . You know , that 's our obligation . It should have happened prior to now . To not approve it , have the FIP go into place , I think , is a little bit negligent on our part , to not do what the state should be doing , and this

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should be in our own control .

It 's my thought that based on the five factors of BART -- you know , visibility is great . I would love to see pristine , clear air every time I walked on top of

a mountain or looked around and see the vistas .

You know , the $1 billion invest ment to get us slightly improved air

-- you know , I wish -- I wish it

was crystal clear , and , you know , it was just the way we imagined it on the best day that we ' ve ever been out doors . But to spend a billion dollars to get that kind of view , the improvement is not significant .

To me , it seems obvious that we need to meet the EPA threshold , we have to make some investment . A $ 77 million investment is a much wiser investment in my view than spending 10 times that amount .

I also would support the SIP and the SNCR technology .

MS . PEACOCK : Anyone else ? MR . FULFER : I think you have to have a -- probably meetings like this to bring technology and compliance to the forefront , especially technology , that brings out what 's available out there and keeps the search for better technology , and I think we ' re going to

see that more and more for coal over the next few years .

The EPA system , I feel like , lacks

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# 306

all

- encompassing and state - specific items . I think it 's

un reasonable . Some of the testimony that was talked about today as being marginal or excellence , I think the excellence it 's not obtained in one slice or one silver bullet . I think it 's something that 's grown over time .

And so I think you have to -- you have to have something in place and being working toward that all the time . And I think the state does that in their

-- in their attempt here .

I think with New Mexico being one of the poorest states in the state over all economy that we ' re in , I think this is really

-- the EPA method is economically burdensome .

I think -- I think the state 's plan may be somewhat even burdensome in the fact that this company has invested over $ 320 million and not considering all the facts of what they ' ve put in it at this time as far

as getting their investment . They ' ve only had that investment in a couple of years .

And how do you keep adding this on every two years or what 's -- so I feel like it

-- there should be at least like a five

- year time span in instituting another burden . I think that will create time for the ratepayers to -- to -- they don 't feel that burden . It will give technology a time to catch up .

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I think we ' re going to see coal technology

-- like I said a while ago , it 's coming along fast

-- at a fast er clip than we ' ve seen in many years . The cost / benefit ratio of the EPA plan , I feel like , is out of balance . The economic cost to the state , the cities and the counties is a severe burden to the people .

The health benefits , I think you have to take those somewhat into consideration in thinking about it , but I think electricity brings a lot of health benefits to our modern times . The economic stimulus that it brings , I think , brings our health up to another level . I think the poorer our nation is , the worse the health benefits are .

And so our nation 's dependent on coal . I think without it it 's -- it would create a poorer nation . So I really feel like the benefits to health to having coal is

-- far out weighs the not having .

I do support the state 's plan . I think the plan needs to give some time for good planning and engineering . And I think it should be required to maybe give it some time to -- for that engineering planning to get -- before they have to institute that . And I do support the plan .

MS . PEACOCK : Anyone else ? MR . CASCIANO : Yeah . I have some comments .

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# 308 First , I wanted to thank the technical witnesses that came forward . There was a tremendous volume of information , both regulatory and technology

- wise , that I thought the technical witnesses did a very good job of sorting through that and presenting summaries to the Board and asking

-- or answering questions .

I will be voting in favor of the state 's implementation plan for

-- for several reasons . I was concerned with the EPA questions to the state 's plan , but I was very impressed with the responses that the state provided to EPA and think they addressed the list of 20 or so questions that EPA had . So that helped me in coming to this conclusion .

I would n ote that most of the public comment was in favor of the state 's plan . A great majority today , less of a majority yesterday , but even the

non technical comments yesterday were more in favor of the state 's plan .

And those who spoke against the plan or for the EPA proposal , many of those were in favor of clean technology and energy alternatives , and I think it 's -- it 's our job to balance , and if we put too much money into end of pipe control for pollutants that have marginal benefits when it comes to visibility or public

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# 309

health improvements , then we lose out with that money that we could apply to other more productive uses .

I was moved today by the comments from the Native American community . I think it 's very important for us to remember , as Board Member Fulfer said , that health out comes in the US are the primary predictor or the biggest factor in predicting negative health income

-- or out comes . It is income level and socioeconomic status .

So if you are a poor person in the United States , you -- you have about twice the chance of getting across a multitude of common diseases and causes of death

-- of getting those than if you are in a poor socioeconomic strata .

So I think it 's important that we keep businesses healthy and a live and

-- and that we be sensitive to workers in a community .

So with that , I' ll conclude my remarks by also kind of giving my opinion on EPA 's best available control technology , in this case retrofit technology . I think it 's important that we remember

-- and Mr . Cline talked about this a little bit . I think the best really in the regulations means the best for the situation at hand . It doesn 't mean the theoretical best or the absolute best .

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EPA and the environmental rules really want us to consider a number of factors and what is best kind of considering everything for the particular situation .

Thank you . MS . PEACOCK : Anyone else ? MR . VOLKERDING : I' ll go . Being from the Farmington area , I was happy to hear , you know , from the public this morning , and as Mr . Casciano pointed out , overwhelmingly the people in this area up here today are in support of the New Mexico 's plan .

And I think it 's -- something that , you know , the Board has to consider is that , you know , we ' re --

we ' ve heard testimony and public comment in terms of alternative energy and green , and we ' ve had people talk about global warming and those kinds of things . And those are all very important issues , but that 's not actually what this hearing is about .

This hearing is about whether this Board approves the State Implementation Plan as presented . And so I think it 's important that we stay focused in terms of what is before us .

As has been pointed out , you know , Congress , when it came up with these rules , out lined what a state should do in developing a SIP , and the New Mexico 's

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# 311 proposal has done that .

And in response to the people that are concerned about public health , I think Mr . Alvidrez brought up an excellent point , there are a whole bunch of other rules that come into play , and this is

-- this decision and this SIP is not done in a vacuum . There

are the National Ambient Air Quality Standards , there 's New Mexico air quality standards , there 's other performance standards for different types of equipment .

And so whatever decision the Board makes does not invalidate any of those aspects that are out there to also help and protect public health .

And so staying on point in terms of what is before this Board , the state 's SIP plan has met all of the criteria that Congress laid out in the Clean Air Act , it does reduce emissions from the PNM plant , and so I also would be in support of the New Mexico plan .

MR . MORROW : Oh , I -- they ' ve said everything that I was going to say , so no sense taking up anybody else 's time .

But I am in support of what we ' re doing . I appreciate hearing from both sides , we do need to hear from both sides . But I think the decision that we make today and the guidance we ' ve had has been very good .

And that 's all I' ll say .

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MS . PEACOCK : Again , and I' ll wrap it up . I'm very impressed with the Environment Department 's work on this , with PNM 's work , and the engineers and the modeling that went into this , and also how you -- you ' ve played with EPA and responding to them and getting them involved , and it just seems to be a very complete process to me , and it 's a process that does belong in the state .

And that 's why , as well , I'm going to be voting for the SIP .

So we ' ve heard from everybody . Can I -- will somebody make a motion ? MR . MORROW : I so move . MS . RYAN : Second . MS . PEACOCK : All in favor . ( Simultaneous responses .) MS . PEACOCK : Okay . Unanimous to approve the SIP . And because of what

-- upon approval of the SIP , we now move -- need to move into 11-02 and have a hearing on that .

MS . ORTH : Yes , Madam Chair . MS . PEACOCK : So I' ll turn it over to Ms . Orth . ( Proceedings adjourned at 12 : 33 p.m.)

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# 313

STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss . COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

I, CHERYL ARREGUIN , the officer before whom the foregoing proceeding was taken , do hereby certify that the witnesses whose testimony appears in the foregoing transcript were duly sworn or affirmed ; that I personally recorded the testimony by machine shorthand ; that said transcript is a true record of the testimony given by said witnesses ; that I am neither attorney nor counsel for , nor related to or employed by any of the parties to the action in which this proceeding is taken , and that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially interested in the action .

NOTARY PUBLIC CCR License Number : 21 Expires : 12 / 31 / 2011 My Commission Expires : 12 / 12 / 11

## $ **$ 11**  [1] - 192 :9 **$ 116**  [1] - 242 :25 **$ 12**  [1] - 213 : 17 **$ 150**  [1] - 243 :2 **$ 30**  [1] - 196 : 22 **$ 320**  [4] - 188 :20 , 281 : 15, 285:9, 306: 16 **$ 383** **, 000**  [1] - 243:21 **$ 46**  [1] - 243 :6 **$ 49**  [1] - 243 :8 **$ 700**  [1] - 292 : 15 **$ 75**  [1] - 292 : 14 **$ 750**  [1] - 213 : 15 **$ 77**  [5] - 213 : 17 , 295 : 18 , 296:8, 304:5, 305 : 14 **$8. 62**  [1] - 242 :25 **$ 82**  [1] - 209 :7 **$ 85**  [7] - 191 :5, 191 :7, 191 : 13 , 191 : 18 , 192 :9, 192 : 11 , 213: 16 **$ 93**  [1] - 242 : 13



## '

**' 01**  [1] - 281 : 19

**' 03**  [1] - 281 : 19

**' 74**  [1] - 248 :2

**' 76**  [1] - 185 : 12

**' 77**  [1] - 229 :5

**' mix** **'** [1] - 222 :4 

## 1

**1** [5] - 180 : 10 , 184 : 15, 213: 16 , 243 : 17 , 305:6 **1, 000**  [1] - 213:24 **1, 038**  [1] - 242 : 11 **10** [5] - 191 : 16, 209 : 18 , 286:8, 289 : 18 , 305: 15 **100** [1] - 191 : 16 **11** [4] - 192 : 13, 211 : 11 , 240:2, 243: 10 **11 -** **01** [3] - 181 :6, 290 :5, 300 : 17 **11 -** **01 (R**  [2] - 174 :3, 212 : 15 **11 -** **02** [1] - 312 :20 **1100** [1] - 176 :5 **1190** [2] - 175 :4, 175 : 19 **11 :** **38** [1] - 289 :25 **11 :** **57** [1] - 290 :1 **12 /** **12 /** **11** [1] - 313:22 **12 /** **31 /** **2011** [1] - 313 :20 **122** [2] - 196 :23 , 214 :3 **12 :** **33** [1] - 312 :25 **13** [1] - 259:23 **15 -** **minute** [1] - 289 : 18 **1508** [1] - 175 : 13 **169 A**  [1] - 223 : 19 **169 B**  [1] - 223 :20 **18** [2] - 215:4, 215 :5 **184** [1] - 177 :5 **187** [1] - 177 :7 **18 th**  [1] - 206 :9 **19** [1] - 293:21 **190** [1] - 177 :9 **193** [1] - 177 : 11 **1964** [1] - 200 :6 **197** [1] - 177 : 13 **1971** [1] - 268 :8 **1972** [2] - 239 :22 , 239 :23 **1974** [1] - 247 :22 **1976** [1] - 185 : 10 **1977** [2] - 220 :23 , 291 :23 **1980** [4] - 220 :24 , 221 : 19 , 222 :24 , 291 :20 **1980 s**  [1] - 221 : 12 **1999** [2] - 205 :22 , 229 :6 

## 2

**2** [4] - 174 :24 , 246 :7, 281 :3, 285 :3 **2.5** [2] - 279 :7, 279 : 12 **20** [7] - 195:6, 195 :7, 204 :7, 206 :2, 242 :4, 251 :25, 308: 13 **200** [1] - 176 : 11 **2001** [2] - 281 :3, 282 :3 **2003** [3] - 274 :25, 282 :3, 293 : 13 **2004** [2] - 218 : 14 , 230 :4 **2005** [7] - 229 :7, 280 :25, 281 : 15, 282 :8, 291 :25, 292 :6, 297 :9 **2006** [2] - 198 :2, 199 :9 **2009** [6] - 213 :2, 218 : 15, 243: 19 , 257 :5, 280 :25, 281 : 15 **2010** [5] - 199 : 18 , 209 : 12 , 242 : 10 , 242 :23 , 243:6 **2011** [5] - 174 : 16 , 180 : 10 , 185: 10 , 206 :20 , 243: 19 **2018** [1] - 230 :4 **202** [1] - 177 : 15 **205** [1] - 177 : 17 **2050** [1] - 203 :1 **2053** [1] - 206 :6 **2064** [1] - 264 : 18 **207** [1] - 177 : 19 **20 th**  [1] - 185 :2 **21** [2] - 192 : 13, 313 :20 **210** [1] - 177 :21 **212** [1] - 177 :23 **214** [1] - 177 :25 **217** [1] - 178 :5 **219** [1] - 180 :5 **22** [1] - 261 : 10 **227** [1] - 178 :6 **23** [4] - 209: 13, 282 :20 , 283: 16 **2307** [1] - 176 : 16 **234** [2] - 178 :7, 178 :8 **235** [1] - 178 :9 **239** [1] - 178 : 11 **24** [1] - 243:9 **240** [1] - 180 :4 **245** [1] - 178 : 13 **247** [1] - 178 : 15 **249** [1] - 178 : 17 **25** [3] - 212 : 18, 282 :25, 283: 19 **251** [1] - 178 : 19 **255** [2] - 178 :21 , 209 : 15 **259** [1] - 178 :23 **265** [1] - 178 :25 **268** [1] - 179 :5 **27 ,** **000** [1] - 259 :22 **276** [1] - 179 :7 **28** [1] - 260:8 **280 ,** **000** [1] - 259 :21 **286** [1] - 179 :9 **289** [1] - 180 : 10 **2 nd**  [1] - 174: 16 

## 3

**3** [4] - 242 : 14 , 281 :3, 282 : 14 , 282 :20 **30** [3] - 214:2, 218 : 10 , 260:9 **30 -** **plus** [1] - 185:6 **300** [1] - 176 : 10 **309** [3] - 293 : 13 , 293 : 15, 293: 19 **309 (g**  [2] - 293 : 15, 293 : 19 **31** [1] - 260:7 **32** [1] - 260: 10 **320** [1] - 303 : 15 **325** [1] - 176 : 17 **33** [1] - 209: 12 **34** [1] - 243:21 

## 4

**4** [2] - 282 : 13 , 283 : 13 **4, 000**  [1] - 196:8 **4, 500**  [1] - 272 :9 **40** [4] - 202 :21 , 203 : 12 , 206:3, 260:4 **400** [1] - 268 : 12 **42** [1] - 212 : 18 **44** [1] - 188:22 **45** [1] - 261 : 11 **4601** [1] - 174 : 19 **48** [1] - 260:3 **4 th**  [1] - 296: 18 

## 5

**5** [1] - 285 :3 **5, 000**  [2] - 246: 17, 296 : 12 **50** [4] - 191 : 16, 206 : 13 , 209: 12 , 242 :22 **50 -** **year** [1] - 243: 18 **500** [2] - 176 :5, 268 : 12 **505** [4] - 175 : 14 , 176 :6, 176 : 12 , 176: 18 **529** [1] - 243 :5 **5469** [1] - 175 : 18 **575** [1] - 175 :20 **598 -** **4358** [1] - 176 : 12 

## 6

**6** [4] - 213 : 14 , 262 :2, 264 :6, 272 : 16 **60** [1] - 260: 12 **600** [2] - 209 : 13 , 209 : 17 **63** [2] - 188:7, 242 : 13 

## 7

**7.1** [1] - 211 : 14 

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**70** [1] - 194:2 **70 -** **something** [1] - 188 :23 **700** [1] - 191 : 16 **71** [2] - 188:23, 211 : 11 **7103** [1] - 174 : 19 **715** [1] - 211 : 12 **75** [1] - 242 :9 **750** [1] - 232 :23 **779 -** **1627** [1] - 175 :20 

## 8

**8** [1] - 211 : 13 **80** [2] - 268: 14 **80 s**  [1] - 192 : 15 **824 -** **4737** [1] - 176 :6 **827 -** **6040** [1] - 175 : 14 **83** [1] - 207:24 **86** [1] - 260: 11 **87102** [1] - 176:6 **87401** [1] - 176: 11 **87501** [1] - 175:5 **87502 -** **5469** [1] - 175 :20 **87504 -** **1508** [1] - 175 : 13 **87504 -** **2307** [1] - 176 : 17 

## 9

**9** [1] - 262 : 19 **900** [1] - 276 : 12 **90 s**  [1] - 192 : 15 **953** [4] - 240 :3, 242 : 18 , 249:21 , 256 :21 **982 -** **3873** [1] - 176 : 18 **9: 08**  [1] - 174 :20 

## A

**a.m** [3] - 174 :20 , 289 :25, 290:1 **abate** [1] - 201 : 14 **abide** [1] - 257 :7 **abided** [1] - 257:3 **able** [ 17] - 186:5, 191 :8, 196 : 15, 202 : 17 , 203:22 , 216 : 18 , 235:6, 242 :6, 252 :8, 253 :9, 254 :1, 254 :2, 254 :20 , 255 : 16 , 281 :8, 286 : 10 , 296:4 **absolute** [1] - 309: 25**absolutely** [3] -

285 : 16 , 295:5, 301 : 10 **absorb** [2] - 203 :25, 204 :1 **academics** [1] - 199 : 16 **accept** [3] - 181 : 10 , 247 :3, 294 : 12 **accommodate** [2] - 190 :5, 225 :9 **accompanies** [1] - 194 : 19 **accordance** [1] - 301 : 16 **according** [2] - 225 : 24 , 250: 10 **account** [ 11 ] - 219 : 18 , 242 : 14 , 277 : 17 , 277: 20 , 277 : 21 , 278:5, 280 : 13 , 280: 15, 281 :9, 281 : 16 **accurate** [1] - 291 :21 **accurately** [1] - 291 :7 **achieve** [7] - 186 :24 , 187 :1, 235 :9, 236 : 17 , 236 : 18 , 264: 17 , 283 : 25 **achieved** [3] - 189 : 11 , 230: 12 , 235 : 11 **achieves** [1] - 186 :8 **act** [9] - 200:2, 236 : 13 , 272 : 20 , 291 :8, 291 : 13 , 291 : 14 , 291 : 22 , 292 : 24 , 298: 23 **Act** [24] - 200:6, 205 : 20 , 208: 14 , 218 :5, 218 :9, 220 :7, 222 :2, 222 :6, 223 : 17 , 223 : 19 , 235: 22 , 235 : 25, 236:1, 237:2, 291 :5, 291 : 13 , 295 : 15, 295: 16 , 298 : 19 , 301 : 17 , 301 : 22 , 302 :1, 311 : 16 **action** [ 14] - 189:8, 198 : 12 , 199: 24 , 200 :1, 201 : 13 , 211 : 17 , 270:1, 272 : 15, 272 : 24 , 274 : 25, 298: 21 , 299 : 15, 313: 14 , 313 : 17 **actions** [2] - 215: 18, 215 : 24 **actively** [1] - 243 : 14 **activities** [1] - 198 :5 **acts** [1] - 200 :9 **actual** [2] - 184 :24 , 222 :4 **actuality** [1] - 228 :4 **ad** [1] - 197:25 **add** [7] - 211 :3, 270 :24 , 281 : 15, 291 : 18 , 291 :24 , 300 :5, 300 :6 **add -** **ons** [1] - 281 : 15 **adding** [2] - 192 : 14 , 306 :20 **addition** [5] - 195:8, 213 : 19 , 217: 17 , 243 :2, 279 : 14 **additional** [8] - 181 : 10 , 261 :22 , 271 :4, 271 :9, 278 :4, 281 : 16 , 281 :23 , 283 : 18 **additionally** [1] - 280 : 12 **additions** [1] - 239 : 17 **additive** [1] - 283: 10 **address** [ 14] - 206 : 15, 206: 18 , 206 :22 , 208:2, 211 :24 , 220: 13 , 236 :3, 255 :2, 262 : 13 , 274 : 17 , 275:3, 282 :2, 290 :25, 293:3 **addressed** [6] - 213 :8, 213 : 13 , 220 :25, 221 : 12 , 290 :20 , 308: 12 **addresses** [2] - 274 :20 , 274:21 **addressing** [4] - 211 :21 , 211 :25, 274 : 15, 298:20 **adjourned** [1] - 312 :25 **administration** [1] - 242 :7 **administrator** [2] - 181 :6, 181 :22 **admission** [2] - 240 :6, 288 :7 **admissions** [1] - 209 : 14 **admit** [1] - 274 : 15 **admits** [1] - 274 :23 **ADMITTED** [1] - 180 :2 **admitted** [6] - 219 :7, 219 :9, 240 : 11 , 240 : 13 , 289:9, 289: 10 **adopt** [12] - 195 : 11 , 213 :9, 214 :7, 217 : 19 , 226 : 13 , 235:8, 236:8, 256 :5, 257 :25, 271 :22 , 272 : 15, 272 :20 **adopted** [2] - 222 :4, 233 :9 **adopting** [2] - 194 : 13 , 298:5 **adoption** [3] - 219 : 14 , 234: 11 , 298 :21 **adopts** [1] - 275 :2 **adverse** [1] - 226 :1 **advisor** [1] - 240 :1 **advocated** [1] - 198 : 10 **aerosols** [2] - 277 :22 , 279: 18 **Affairs** [1] - 199 : 14 **affairs** [2] - 239:25, 240 :4 **affect** [6] - 223 :3, 246 :9, 254 : 17 , 256 : 11 , 256: 15, 257 : 17 **affected** [3] - 184 :2, 256 :24 , 304:3 **affects** [6] - 256 : 12 , 256 : 19 , 257: 11 , 257 : 14 , 293:3, 303: 13 **affirmed** [25] - 184 :9, 187 :21 , 190: 16 , 193 :5, 197 : 16 , 202 :2, 205 :2, 207 :7, 210 : 19 , 212 :6, 214 : 19 , 216 :25, 217:5, 239:7, 245 :2, 247 : 13 , 249 : 11 , 251 : 10 , 255 :20 , 258: 13 , 259 :2, 265 :2, 268 :2, 276 :3, 313 :9 **afford** [1] - 204 : 19 **age** [2] - 200 : 15 **Ag ency**  [7] - 176 : 14 , 182 : 12 , 199: 13 , 200 :1, 241 :20 , 259:7, 259 : 10 **agency** [3] - 199 :21 , 200 :7, 233 :4 **agency 's**  [2] - 200 : 10 , 221 :7 **agent** [1] - 268 :9 **agents** [1] - 198 :4 **ago** [7] - 188: 19, 227 : 11 , 253:24 , 254 :5, 273 :2, 284 :2, 307 :2 **agree** [2] - 192 :7, 301 :4 **agreed** [2] - 230 : 15, 301 : 11 **agriculture** [1] - 265 :8 **ahead** [4] - 202 :25, 203 :1, 274 :9, 303 :24 **aimed** [1] - 211 :7 **Ai r**  [27] - 180 :8, 201 : 12 , 205:20 , 208 : 14 , 218:5, 218:9, 220 :7, 222 :6, 223 : 17 , 223 : 19 , 235:22 , 235 :25, 236:1, 237:2, 250 : 11 , 288: 14 , 291 :5, 291 : 13 , 293:3, 295 : 15, 298: 19 , 301 : 17 , 301 :21 , 302 :1, 311 :7, 311 : 15 **air** [31 ] - 185:9, 185 : 15, 186:2, 186 :22 , 187:1, 198 : 16 , 198:24 , 199 :1, 199 : 10 , 199 : 15, 200: 13 , 208 :2, 208 :24 , 209:1, 210 :5, 216 :2, 237 : 12 , 246 : 11 , 250: 12 , 265 : 14 , 266:3, 277 : 16 , 278:22 , 297 : 18 , 302 :5, 302 :7, 302 : 10 , 304:8, 305:4, 305 :7, 311 :8 **Al buquerque**  [2] - 176 :6, 184 :21 **alive** [1] - 309 : 16 **all -** **encompassing** [1] - 306:1 **Al leged**  [1] - 288 :5 **alleged** [1] - 236 : 11 **Al liance**  [2] - 205: 14, 212 :22 **allow** [3] - 215:22, 222 :25, 290: 15 **allowed** [2] - 265 : 18 , 288 :25 **allowing** [1] - 193 : 19 **allows** [1] - 263 : 11 **allusion** [1] - 235 : 18 **almost** [3] - 208 : 16 , 211 : 15, 296: 12 **alternative** [3] - 191 :23 , 222 :23 , 310 : 15 **alternatives** [1] - 308 :22 **Al vi** **drez** [ 14] - 179:9, 181 :23 , 182 :1, 182 :3, 183 : 11 , 226:22 , 244 :5, 271 : 16 , 286 : 19 , 288:3, 289 :20 , 294:1, 

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# 2

298 : 11 , 311 :3 **AL VIDREZ**  [24] - 176 :3, 182 :2, 183 :2, 226 :23 , 244:6, 269 : 13 , 269:20 , 269 :24 , 271 : 19 , 272 :1, 275 : 17 , 275 :21 , 284:25, 285 : 16 , 285: 18 , 286 :1, 286 :3, 286 :20 , 286 :23 , 286:24 , 287 :3, 287 : 10 , 287 : 18 , 294:2 **Ambient** [2] - 293 :3, 311 :7 **amend** [1] - 230 :24 **amendments** [1] - 291 :23 **America** [1] - 255 : 11 **American** [3] - 242 : 14 , 250: 10 , 309 :4 **ammonia** [1] - 280 : 16 **amount** [5] - 188 : 16 , 211 : 19 , 295:21 , 296 : 12 , 305: 15 **amounts** [1] - 265 : 14 **analyses** [3] - 228 : 13 , 278:5, 281 : 12 **analysis** [15] - 223 :22 , 224: 14 , 224 : 15, 238: 19 , 273 :4, 273 : 15, 273 : 16 , 273: 18 , 277 :3, 277 : 17 , 277 :25, 279: 16 , 282 :9, 292 :22 , 298: 18 **An alysis**  [2] - 180 :7, 288 : 14 **analytical** [1] - 224 :9 **analyze** [2] - 264: 10, 295 :7 **ANDREW** [1] - 176 : 15 **announced** [1] - 215 :3 **An nual**  [1] - 250 : 11 **answer** [7] - 187 : 10 , 223 :5, 231 :2, 273 : 13 , 273 : 14 , 275:2, 295: 12 **answering** [1] - 308 :7 **answers** [1] - 280: 19 **anticipate** [1] - 302 : 18 **anxious** [1] - 270 :1 **anyw ay**  [2] - 253:6, 267 :9 **Ap pendix**  [1] - 285 :3 **applauded** [1] -226 :6 **apple** [2] - 225 :20 , 235 :1 **application** [3] - 225 :7, 235 : 23 , 279:8 **apply** [1] - 309:2 **apply ing**  [1] - 226 :6 **appointed** [1] - 181 :3 **appraisal** [1] - 206 : 22 **appreciate** [7] - 205 : 11 , 227:7, 248 : 13 , 300: 14 , 301 : 12 , 303: 11 , 311 : 22 **approach** [3] - 194 : 16 , 222 : 22 , 225 : 22 **appropriate** [ 15] - 195 : 14 , 222 : 21 , 225 :8, 230 : 10 , 231 : 25, 252 : 19 , 296 : 24 , 297:1, 297 : 11 , 297: 16 , 297 : 18 , 298:2, 298:4, 298 : 22 , 299: 15 **appropriately** [1] - 220 : 12 **approval** [5] - 228 : 24 , 230: 21 , 233 : 13 , 298:8, 312 : 19 **approve** [8] - 228 :8, 229 : 18 , 230: 22 , 233 : 17 , 293: 19 , 304 : 23 , 312 : 17 **approved** [4] - 228 : 23 , 229:9, 273 : 16 , 297:4 **approves** [1] - 310 : 20 **approving** [1] - 229 : 10 **Ap ril**  [1] - 296 : 18 **APS** [4] - 215: 19 , 256 : 17 , 256: 25, 257 : 10 **AQ C**  [4] - 279 :5, 279 : 15, 281 : 12 , 282 :8 **area** [46] - 188 :5, 188 : 21 , 188: 25, 198 :4, 198 : 13 , 198 : 16 , 198: 17 , 198 : 20 , 198: 23 , 198 : 25, 200:4, 200 : 17 , 201 : 11 , 201 : 14 , 213: 23 , 214 :6, 216 :3, 245 :20 , 246 : 17 , 246: 23 , 248 :1, 250 :3, 250 : 14 , 252 : 16 , 256: 16 , 268 :8, 268 : 11 , 268 :24 , 269:3, 269:7, 276 : 11 , 277:4, 281 :5, 283 : 10 , 284: 10 , 284 : 14 , 285:5, 295:9, 297 :8, 299 :4, 299 :6, 299 :8, 299 : 12 , 302 :24 , 310:7, 310: 10 **area 's**  [1] - 208 :24 **areas** [ 10] - 197:2, 209 :23 , 211 : 15, 224 :7, 279 :1, 281 :5, 283 :4, 284 :5, 290 :21 , 293 : 15 **argue** [1] - 289:4 **arguments** [3] - 289 : 19 , 290:8, 300:9 **Ari zona**  [4] - 185 :3, 256 : 14 , 259:23 , 268 : 18 **Arms** [2] - 240 :22 , 240 :23 **ARREGUIN** [1] - 313 :6 **Arreguin** [2] - 181 : 18 , 181 : 19 **Arrington** [1] - 176 : 10 **arriving** [1] - 190:1 **article** [1] - 199 : 17 **aside** [1] - 220: 13 **aspects** [2] - 238 :4, 311 : 11 **assist** [3] - 245: 18, 253 : 14 , 254: 15 **assistance** [1] - 185 : 19 **Assistant** [1] - 175 : 11 **associated** [4] - 185 :22 , 265:24 , 266 : 15, 287: 11 **associates** [1] - 257 :6 **association** [2] - 198 :1, 198 :6 **Association 's**  [1] - 250 : 10 **assume** [2] - 202 : 13, 286 :25 **assumption** [1] - 271 :3 **assumptions** [1] - 264 : 10 **assure** [1] - 222 :1 **asthma** [2] - 209 : 13 , 266 :6 **attached** [2] - 285:1, 296 : 16 **Attachment** [1] - 296 : 17 **attack** [1] - 196 : 12 **attacks** [2] - 209: 13 **attainment** [2] - 206 : 17 , 209:3 **attempt** [2] - 277 :1, 306 :9 **attempted** [1] - 294 :24 **attending** [1] - 244 : 16 **attention** [3] - 199 :22 , 222 : 15, 245 : 11 **Attorney** [2] - 175 : 11 , 175: 12 **attorney** [2] - 313 : 12 , 313 : 15 **Attorneys** [2] - 176 :4, 176 : 16 **attractions** [1] - 198 : 19 **attractive** [1] - 198 : 17 **attractiveness** [1] - 198 :24 **attributable** [2] - 221 :1, 263 : 15 **attributes** [1] - 279 :2 **audience** [1] - 285 : 15 **Au gust**  [3] - 230:20, 231 : 13 , 272 : 19 **Au thority**  [2] - 215:2, 256 :9 **authority** [3] - 209 :1, 222 :9, 259 : 14 **available** [ 12] - 181 :21 , 220: 14 , 220 : 18 , 252 :20 , 267 :6, 276 :8, 278 :6, 280 : 16 , 284:3, 302 :9, 305 :22 , 309: 19 **Available** [4] - 205 :25, 206:2, 220 : 14 , 241 : 16 **average** [2] - 195 : 17 , 213 : 17 **aw arded**  [1] - 243:21 **aw are**  [2] - 228 : 19 , 262 : 17 **aw ful**  [1] - 254 : 10 **Aztec** [1] - 245 : 16 

## B

**B- as** **- in**  **- boy** **-E-N-N A-L-L-E-** **Y** [1] - 251 : 16 **B-E-N-A-L-L- Y**  [1] - 256 :1 **bachelor** [1] - 218 :7 **bachelor 's**  [1] - 242 :6 **background** [3] - 217 :23 , 239:20 , 284 :6 **backstop** [1] - 230 :7 **backwards** [1] - 257 :7 **BACT** [2] - 234 :4, 234 :6 **bad** [4] - 186:3, 186 :6, 248 : 15, 257: 17 **baghouse** [1] - 257 :5 **balance** [25] - 185 : 16 , 186:1, 186:7, 186 :8, 186 :24 , 186 :25, 195:4, 195 : 14 , 195:22 , 197 :6, 220 :4, 222 : 18 , 222 :20 , 223:9, 223 : 11 , 237:6, 246 : 12 , 246:22 , 290 :23 , 292 : 17 , 295 : 10 , 298:4, 307:5, 308 :23 **balanced** [1] - 194 : 16 **balances** [1] - 250 :24 **balancing** [4] - 219 :20 , 223:24 , 291 :2, 291 :4 **Bandelier** [1] - 211 : 13 **bargaining** [2] - 240 :2, 242 : 17 **BART** [89] - 194 :24 , 218 :20 , 219: 14 , 219 : 19 , 220:9, 221 :4, 221 : 13 , 221 : 16 , 22 1: 18 , 222 :9, 222 : 14 , 222 : 19 , 222 :24 , 223:1, 223:3, 223 :5, 223 :22 , 224:5, 224 :8, 224 : 14 , 224 : 19 , 224:24 , 225 :1, 225 :6, 225 :7, 225 : 11 , 225: 14 , 225 :23 , 226:3, 226:9, 226 : 10 , 228: 19 , 229 :3, 229 :9, 229 : 11 , 229 : 15, 230:5, 230:9, 230 : 14 , 231 : 10 , 232 :9, 232 : 11 , 232 : 13 , 232 : 16 , 232 : 19 , 232 :21 , 232 :22 , 233: 17 , 234 :4, 234 :8, 235 :7, 235 :21 , 237: 14 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 3

241 :21 , 241 :23 , 262 :3, 262 :4, 262 : 15, 262 : 18 , 262 :20 , 262 :21 , 262 :23 , 263 :3, 263 :9, 263 :24 , 264 :2, 272 : 11 , 273:4, 274 :9, 281 :23 , 282 : 18 , 285:25, 291 :8, 291 : 16 , 291 : 19 , 292 :1, 292 : 12 , 293:1, 293:9, 293 : 11 , 294: 16 , 294 :23 , 296: 19 , 297 : 13 , 297: 17 , 301 : 19 , 302 : 13 , 305 :3 **BARTs** [1] - 233:9 **base** [1] - 280 : 17 **based** [ 10] - 194 : 12 , 220 :6, 220 : 10 , 232 :9, 238 : 12 , 245:20 , 265 :23 , 275:4, 286 : 15, 305:2 **baseline** [ 12] - 264:9, 278 :1, 278 : 12 , 279:5, 279 : 14 , 279: 15, 280 :24 , 281 : 11 , 281 : 12 , 281 : 18 , 282 :2, 283 :2 **basic** [1] - 223:21 **basing** [1] - 267:3 **basis** [4] - 219:20 , 220 :20 , 279: 15, 279 : 19 **basket** [1] - 225:4 **BE** [1] - 174 : 16 **bear** [2] - 203:21 , 203 :22 **beautiful** [4] - 184:4, 246 :23 , 254:4, 266: 23 **beauty** [1] - 259: 25 **become** [1] - 202 : 19 **becomes** [1] - 181 :20 **befits** [1] - 198 : 16 **BEFORE** [1] - 174 :1 **began** [1] - 204 :9 **begin** [1] - 182 :25 **beginning** [1] - 183 :8 **behalf** [7] - 182 :3, 219 : 12 , 240:25, 253 : 13 , 259:9, 268 :23 , 294: 12 **behind** [4] - 202 : 11 , 227 : 11 , 238:23 , 265 : 19 **beings** [1] - 186: 10 **believes** [1] - 295 : 10 **belong** [1] - 312 :8 **below** [2] - 208:4, 260 :4**BENALLY** [6] -

178 : 10 , 178: 20 , 216 : 24 , 239:6, 255 : 19 , 255: 25 **Benally** [ 11 ] - 180:4, 239 :5, 239 : 11 , 240 : 14 , 244: 11 , 244 : 14 , 255: 25, 256 :1, 256 :2, 258 :2, 299 : 19 **Benally 's**  [1] - 240:7 **benefit** [5] - 209 :21 , 209 : 24 , 253: 25, 254 :2, 283 : 12 **benefits** [ 13] - 185 : 23 , 236:7, 236 : 17 , 237: 10 , 241 : 25, 257:1, 292 : 25, 307:7, 307:9, 307 : 13 , 307: 16 , 308 : 25 **Bennalley** [6] - 251 :8, 251 : 16 , 251 : 21 , 255: 17 , 256 :3, 299 : 22 **BENNALLEY** [4] - 178 : 18 , 251 :9, 251 : 15, 251 : 18 **bent** [1] - 257:7 **BERNALILLO** [1] - 313 :3 **best** [22] - 202 :24 , 203 :2, 203 : 14 , 203 : 15, 204: 17 , 204 : 20 , 220: 14 , 220 : 17 , 220: 18 , 220 : 19 , 241 : 22 , 248 : 14 , 303:7, 303:8, 303 : 12 , 305:9, 309 : 19 , 309: 22 , 309 : 23 , 309: 24 , 309 : 25, 310:2 **Best** [4] - 205: 25, 206 :2, 220 : 14 , 241 : 16 **better** [ 10] - 186 : 17, 203 : 13 , 222 : 23 , 236 : 11 , 248:2, 253 : 11 , 259: 16 , 264 :8, 264 : 10 , 305:23 **betterment** [1] - 283 :1 **between** [16] - 192 :3, 192 :9, 195 : 14 , 21 3: 10 , 220:4, 246 : 12 , 248:4, 279 : 14 , 279: 15, 280 :9, 281 : 15, 283:6, 284 : 19 , 285: 12 , 286 :6, 292 :9 **beyond** [3] - 203: 16, 228 :4, 252 :5 **BHP** [ 14] - 176: 10, 182 : 17 , 216: 11 , 239 :22 , 240:5, 241 :3, 242 :4, 242 :8, 243 : 19 , 250 :9, 253 :8, 256 : 17 , 256 :24 , 257: 10 **Bible** [1] - 238 : 18 **big** [7] - 191 :6, 192 : 10 , 195:25, 230 : 13 , 237:25, 256 : 15, 257:20 **bigger** [2] - 192 :5, 199 :1 **biggest** [1] - 309 :7 **bill** [2] - 195 : 18 , 256 :8 **Bill** [3] - 182 :7, 192 :6, 212 : 11 **BILL** [3] - 175: 17, 177 :22 , 212 :5 **bill .** **grantham @**  **state .**  **nm .**  **us** [1] - 175 :21 **billion** [7] - 213: 16, 285 : 11 , 285: 13 , 285 :23 , 295:1, 305:6, 305 : 10 **billions** [1] - 248 :5 **Billiton** [9] - 176 : 10 , 182 : 17 , 216: 11 , 239 :22 , 240:5, 241 :3, 242 :5, 242 :8, 243 : 19 **bills** [1] - 191 :5 **binding** [1] - 272 :8 **bit** [ 11 ] - 184 : 16 , 184 : 18 , 217:22 , 229 :20 , 232 :6, 239 : 19 , 294: 15, 296 :21 , 304:5, 304 :24 , 309:22 **bite** [1] - 234:25 **bites** [1] - 225 : 19 **Black** [8] - 233 : 15, 263 : 16 , 270:8, 271 : 14 , 273:7, 275 :23 , 280:21 , 287 :20 **black** [1] - 236:20 **blessed** [2] - 253 :22 , 253 :24 **blew** [1] - 185 :3 **Bloomfield** [1] - 245 : 16 **blowing** [4] - 254:9, 257 :22 , 276: 12 , 276 : 13 **blown** [1] - 276 : 18 **BOARD** [4] - 174 :1, 227 :4, 235 : 16 , 276:6 **board** [2] - 246:2, 294 :6 **Board** [ 101 ] - 174 : 18 , 175 :6, 178 :6, 178 :9, 179 :7, 181 :3, 181 :6, 181 : 11 , 181 : 16 , 183 :3, 183 : 12 , 183 : 13 , 183:23 , 187 : 13 , 189:25, 195 : 11 , 197:5, 201 : 13 , 202 : 14 , 207 : 18 , 210:7, 211 :1, 212 :20 , 215:24 , 216 : 10 , 217:22 , 218 :1, 219 : 16 , 219 :22 , 223: 15, 225 : 19 , 227:2, 227:8, 233 :6, 233 :20 , 233 :21 , 235:3, 235:8, 237 :21 , 240: 15, 240 : 18 , 244: 10 , 244 : 15, 245: 10 , 245 :21 , 248:25, 249 : 19 , 251 : 19 , 251 :20 , 256:5, 262 : 17 , 270:1, 270:4, 270 : 12 , 270: 15, 271 :4, 271 :8, 272 :3, 272 : 14 , 272 :20 , 272 :25, 273:8, 273 : 10 , 275:2, 275:9, 286 : 13 , 287:3, 289 : 11 , 289:22 , 290 : 13 , 290:24 , 293 : 10 , 293: 18 , 293 :22 , 294:3, 294 : 19 , 295:4, 296:4, 296 : 16 , 298:5, 298 : 14 , 298:20 , 298 :25, 299:2, 299:6, 299 : 14 , 300:9, 300 : 19 , 301 :2, 301 : 11 , 301 : 15, 301 :24 , 303:3, 304 : 16 , 308:6, 309:5, 310 : 13 , 310: 19 , 311 : 10 , 311 : 14 **Board 's**  [6] - 219 : 13 , 236 :23 , 248: 13 , 272 : 15, 298:7, 299: 18 **bodies** [1] - 299: 11 **bogus** [1] - 228 : 14 **boil** [1] - 304 : 14 **boiler** [2] - 226 :3, 282 :23 **bones** [1] - 228 : 10 **book** [1] - 273 : 19 **border** [1] - 188 :6 **borders** [1] - 208 :6 **born** [1] - 184 :20 **borne** [1] - 214: 10 **bought** [3] - 252 :25, 253 :1, 265 :7 **Boulev ard**  [1] - 174 : 19 **boundaries** [2] - 241 :8, 259 :22 **box** [1] - 227:21 **Box** [2] - 175: 18, 176 : 16 **boy** [1] - 251 : 16 **branch** [1] - 259 :8 **break** [5] - 287 :25, 289 : 18 , 289:24 , 290 :2, 290 :4 **breaks** [1] - 209 : 17 **breathe** [1] - 186 :5 **breathing** [1] - 266 :6 **brief** [1] - 290 : 15 **briefing** [1] - 270 :20 **briefly** [2] - 223 :21 , 298 : 13 **bright** [1] - 228 : 15 **brilliant** [1] - 186 :4 **bring** [8] - 209 :24 , 211 :4, 242 :3, 247 :5, 267 : 11 , 269:8, 284 :21 , 305:20 **brings** [6] - 195:4, 232 :6, 305 :22 , 307:9, 307 : 11 **broad** [2] - 219: 17 , 220 : 16 **broader** [1] - 225 : 13 **Broncos** [1] - 252 :3 **brought** [2] - 292 : 10 , 311 :4 **BROWN** [4] - 177 : 12 , 197 : 15, 197:21 , 197 :24 **brown** [2] - 201 : 16, 287 : 14 **Brown** [1] - 197:21 **Bryce** [1] - 231 : 16 **BRYCE** [5] - 175 :9, 231 : 17 , 232 :1, 285 : 14 , 303:24 **budgets** [1] - 195 :21 **build** [2] - 191 : 15, 238 :24 **Building** [1] - 175:4 **building** [2] - 276: 13, 280 : 12 **built** [1] - 215 :8 **bullet** [1] - 306 :5 **bunch** [2] - 231 :4, 311 :4 **burden** [3] - 306:23, 306 :24 , 307:6 **burdensome** [2] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 4

306 : 13 , 306: 15 **Bureau** [2] - 199: 14, 201 : 12 **burners** [1] - 297 : 18 **burning** [1] - 263: 20 **business** [8] - 187 :8, 212 : 17 , 242 :7, 243 : 13 , 250:5, 268:9, 294 :7, 304 :3 **businesses** [2] - 257 : 12 , 309: 16 **buy** [1] - 204 : 13 **buys** [1] - 256 : 10 **BY** [ 10] - 217 :8, 219 : 10 , 227:4, 234:2, 234 :22 , 235: 16 , 239 : 10 , 240: 14 , 276 :6, 286 :23 

## C

**C-L-I-N-E** [1] - 217 :3 **C-O-L-L-I-N-S** [1] - 207 : 12 **C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D** [1] - 210:25 **calculations** [1] - 238 :7 **calendar** [3] - 242 : 10 , 242 :23 , 243 :6 **California** [1] - 185 :4 **camp** [1] - 253 :4 **campaigns** [1] - 243 : 16 **cannot** [1] - 185 :1 **Canyonlands** [2] - 284 : 15, 284:20 **capacity** [1] - 218 : 11 **capita** [1] - 209 : 18 **captures** [1] - 285 : 19 **cards** [1] - 187 :8 **care** [1] - 209: 15 **career** [1] - 299:20 **careful** [1] - 302 : 21 **carefully** [2] - 196 :1, 267 :3 **cares** [1] - 299 :5 **carry** [2] - 208:8, 232 :24 **CASCIANO** [7] - 175 :8, 235 : 17 , 236 :21 , 237:7, 237 : 15, 288:20 , 307 :25 **Casciano** [2] - 288 :24 , 310:9 **case** [ 19] - 192 :4, 192 : 19 , 217: 10 , 220 : 18 , 220:20 ,228 : 18 , 233: 19 ,

239 : 13 , 240:7, 257 : 16 , 266:5, 270 : 17 , 270: 20 , 289 :9, 291 : 13 , 294:5, 294 : 11 , 309: 20 **Case** [1] - 212 : 15 **case -** **by -** **case** [1] - 220 : 20 **cases** [3] - 186: 17, 297 :5, 297 : 11 **catastrophic** [1] - 196 :6 **catch** [1] - 306 :25 **causes** [1] - 309 : 12 **caves** [1] - 186:21 **CCR** [1] - 313 :20 **Center** [1] - 200:20 **Central** [1] - 252 :3 **certain** [6] - 196 :7, 222 :7, 238 :9, 247 :23 , 279 :2, 281 :5 **certainly** [14] - 188 :8, 228 :5, 233 : 11 , 235 : 12 , 265: 21 , 267 :5, 269 : 25, 270:5, 270 : 14 , 271 : 19 , 275 : 17 , 289:5, 295:2, 298 :2 **certify** [1] - 313 :7 **cetera** [1] - 195 :20 **Chaco** [1] - 198 :3 **chair** [1] - 300: 11 **Chair** [2] - 294:3, 312 : 22 **chairman** [1] - 193 : 21 **Chairman** [3] - 211 :1, 216 : 10 , 217:25 **challenges** [1] - 226 :2 **chance** [2] - 235:3, 309 : 11 **change** [7] - 203:6, 279 :7, 280 :1, 280 :9, 284 : 19 , 286:8, 286:9 **changed** [3] - 229:6, 231 : 20 , 248:3 **changes** [2] - 255 :8, 285 : 21 **Changing** [1] - 201 :3 **changing** [1] - 257 :8 **chapter** [2] - 251 :22 , 251 : 25 **Chapter** [1] - 252 :21 **chapters** [2] - 251 : 23 , 299: 23 **character** [1] - 302 :2 **characteristic** [1] - 287 : 11 **characteristics** [3] - 280 : 10 , 281 : 13 , 281 : 17 **CHARLES** [1] - 176 :9 **Charles** [2] - 182 : 17 , 216 : 11 **charles .** **ce .**  **roybal @**  **bhpbilliton .** **com** [1] - 176 : 12 **charts** [1] - 211 :22 **cheap** [1] - 204 : 15 **cheapest** [1] - 202 :23 **chemical** [1] - 218 :7 **CHERYL** [1] - 313:6 **Cheryl** [1] - 181 : 18 **children** [5] - 203 : 16 , 252 : 11 , 254:20 , 257 : 12 , 266:4 **China** [2] - 185 :4, 255 :7 **choice** [2] - 202 :20, 203 :7 **choices** [3] - 191 :25, 250 : 18 **choke** [1] - 186 :5 **choose** [2] - 181 : 11 , 222 :1 **chose** [1] - 281 : 17 **chosen** [1] - 279:20 **circumstances** [5] - 219 : 19 , 223:1, 223 :25, 225:9, 229:23 **Cities** [1] - 245 : 16 **cities** [2] - 250: 12 , 307 :5 **citizens** [1] - 250 :22 **Citizens** [1] - 205 : 14 **city** [5] - 184 : 16 , 184 : 17 , 204:6, 245:22 **City** [1] - 188 :5 **Civil** [2] - 175 : 12 , 200 :6 **claim** [1] - 252 :22 **Clan** [7] - 240 : 19 , 240 :20 , 240:21 , 240 :22 , 240:23 **clarifications** [1] - 233 :23 **clarify** [2] - 233 :8, 272 :4 **Class** [ 10] - 211 : 15, 224 :6, 279 :1, 283 :3, 283 : 10 , 284:5, 284 : 10 , 284: 13 , 290 :21 , 293: 15 **CLAYTON** [3] - 178 :20 , 255: 19 , 256 :1 **Clayton** [1] - 255:25 **clean** [ 14] - 185 : 15, 186 :2, 186 :22 , 187:1, 189 : 16 , 203:20 , 250 : 12 , 266:22 , 267 : 13 , 308:21 **Clean** [ 17] - 205:20, 208 : 14 , 218:5, 218:9, 220 :7, 222 :6, 223 : 17 , 223 : 19 , 235:22 , 235 :25, 236:1, 237:2, 291 :5, 291 : 13 , 295 : 15, 298: 19 , 311 : 15 **cleaned** [1] - 185 :5 **cleaner** [2] - 208 :2, 210 : 10 **cleanest** [2] - 250 : 12 , 304:8 **clear** [6] - 192 :4, 223 :5, 226 :8, 230 :5, 305 :4, 305 :8 **clearer** [1] - 192 :4 **clearly** [3] - 185:7, 231 :3, 288 :6 **clients** [1] - 218: 18 **Cline** [24] - 180:5, 216 :21 , 217:2, 217:9, 218 :2, 219 : 10 , 226 : 15, 226:20 , 227 :6, 231 : 17 , 233:8, 234 :3, 234 : 16 , 234 :23 , 235: 18 , 239 :2, 239 :3, 275 :6, 291 :6, 291 : 16 , 298 :25, 299:3, 299 : 14 , 309:21 **CLINE** [ 17] - 178 :4, 216 :24 , 217:2, 217:4, 227 :23 , 228:25, 229 :2, 229 :22 , 231 :1, 231 :21 , 232 : 18 , 233 : 11 , 235:24 , 237 :1, 237 :9, 238 :1, 238 : 14 **Cline 's**  [2] - 218:22, 298 : 18 **clip** [1] - 307 :3 **clock** [1] - 231 :7 **close** [ 12] - 181 : 12 , 215 : 19 , 215:24 , 215 :25, 252 : 10 , 254 :20 , 263:23 , 269 : 11 , 269:22 , 289 : 13 , 289: 17 , 300 :3 **closed** [1] - 290:7 **closely** [3] - 194 : 16 , 211 :8, 299 :23 **closest** [2] - 252 :22, 286 : 10 **closing** [8] - 215:4, 270 :21 , 289: 19 , 290 :8, 290 : 16 , 297 :24 , 298: 12 , 300 :9 **closure** [4] - 263 : 13 , 263 : 15, 263: 16 , 288 :1 **clouds** [1] - 276: 13 **CO 2**  [2] - 276 : 17 , 276 :21 **CO AL**  [1] - 180 :3 **Coal** [21 ] - 176 :8, 176 :9, 182 : 18 , 182 :25, 196: 17 , 197 : 12 , 201 : 19 , 213 :20 , 214: 16 , 216 :8, 216 : 12 , 216 : 19 , 217: 14 , 219 : 13 , 226: 12 , 240 :5, 241 :1, 241 :2, 242 : 10 , 242 :23 **coal** [34] - 185:22, 189 : 12 , 194:1, 194:7, 196 : 12 , 203:4, 206 :24 , 208:9, 210:4, 214 :2, 215 : 11 , 215 : 13 , 215: 16 , 224 : 12 , 228:20 , 233 : 12 , 241 :7, 241 :9, 249 :21 , 249:22 , 250 :4, 260 : 15, 260 : 16 , 260: 17 , 260 :22 , 260:23 , 263 :20 , 297:22 , 303 :20 , 305:24 , 307 :1, 307 : 14 , 307: 17 **coal -** **fired** [9] - 189 : 12 , 196: 12 , 203 :4, 208 :9, 210 :4, 215 : 16 , 224: 12 , 228 :20 , 233: 12 **coalition** [1] - 218 : 15 **coast** [1] - 254 :9 **Code** [1] - 255 : 13 **cold** [1] - 246 : 19 **collaborate** [1] - 255 :1 **collaboration** [1] - 264 :7 **collateral** [1] - 236 :6 **college** [1] - 252 : 14 **College** [4] - 174: 18, 174 : 19 , 216: 16 , 267 : 14 **CO LLINS**  [4] - 177 : 18 , 207:3, 207:6, 207 : 12 **Collins** [2] - 207: 12, 210 : 14 **color** [1] - 287: 10 **Colorado** [5] - 188 :6, 207 : 18 , 208: 10 , 268 : 18 , 284: 14 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 5

**combined** [1] - 210 :3 **combusted** [1] - 297 :22 **combustion** [3] - 281 : 16 , 297:2, 297: 17 **comfort** [2] - 298 :21 , 299 : 14 **coming** [ 16] - 184 :6, 202 :25, 203:2, 203:6, 209 :3, 237 : 17 , 243 :23 , 244: 16 , 254 :3, 268 : 18 , 277:2, 278 : 11 , 290:4, 298 : 15, 307:2, 308: 14 **commendable** [1] - 294 :9 **commends** [1] - 299 :6 **comment** [32] - 181 :9, 181 : 11 , 181 : 14 , 183:5, 183 : 15, 183:22 , 183 :25, 184:7, 188 : 10 , 190: 10 , 197 : 12 , 201 : 19 , 210 : 16 , 214: 14 , 223 : 16 , 229:24 , 232 :5, 244 : 19 , 247:7, 248 :20 , 249:8, 258:4, 263 :25, 269: 10 , 269 : 14 , 269: 16 , 273 :1, 288 :22 , 304:2, 308 : 15, 310: 14 **commenters** [1] - 244 :22 **comments** [20] - 185 :8, 211 :4, 219 :22 , 231 :23 , 250:7, 255 : 16 , 259: 10 , 262 :21 , 270:6, 270 :21 , 272 : 10 , 273 :2, 285 :2, 294 : 18 , 298 : 12 , 300: 14 , 301 : 12 , 307:25, 308 : 18 , 309:3 **Comments** [2] - 288 :4, 288 :5 **commission** [1] - 207 :4 **Commission** [3] - 193 :22 , 212 : 19 , 313 :22 **commissioner** [2] - 190 :1, 246 :6 **Commissioner** [1] - 190 : 10 **commitment** [1] - 206 : 14 **committed** [1] - 243 : 12**common** [1] - 309 : 12 **commonly** [1] - 287 : 11 **commonwealth** [1] - 218 :2 **communication** [1] - 186 : 20 **communities** [2] - 200 : 21 , 262 : 14 **community** [28] - 194 : 25, 196: 14 , 205 : 16 , 205: 19 , 206 : 23 , 216: 17 , 243 : 14 , 243: 20 , 246 :6, 249 : 25, 250:6, 251 :2, 252 : 12 , 252 : 14 , 253: 14 , 255 : 11 , 257: 11 , 265 :6, 265 : 17 , 266 : 16 , 266: 21 , 279 : 11 , 299: 18 , 300 :1, 302 : 25, 303:1, 309 :4, 309 : 17 **Community** [1] - 216 : 15 **companies** [6] - 196 :1, 218 : 16 , 245 : 20 , 252 : 10 , 252 : 17 , 252 : 19 **company** [7] - 204 :1, 241 :4, 241 : 14 , 243 : 12 , 277:2, 299 : 20 , 306: 15 **Company** [17] - 176 :2, 176 :2, 176 :8, 182 :3, 182 : 18 , 183:1, 197 : 13 , 214: 16 , 216 :8, 216 : 12 , 216 : 19 , 217: 14 , 219 : 13 , 226: 12 , 241 :1, 288 :4, 294 : 13 **CO MPANY**  [2] - 180 :3, 180 :6 **compare** [2] - 185 : 10 , 236: 10 **compared** [4] - 213 : 17 , 246: 19 , 260 :6, 278 :3 **compel** [1] - 223:20 **com plain**  [1] - 200 : 24 **complains** [1] - 200 : 25 **complaints** [1] - 200 : 20 **complete** [4] - 223 :2, 259 : 17 , 260:8, 312 :7 **completely** [2] - 270 : 14 , 301 :4 **compliance** [8] - 205 :20 , 237: 10 , 263 :4, 263 :5, 263 :7, 263 : 11 , 291 :9, 305:21 **complicated** [1] - 281 :2 **comply** [1] - 205 :23 **component** [2] - 274 :22 , 277: 19 **components** [1] - 279 :3 **comprehensive** [2] - 274 : 13 , 298:1 **computers** [1] - 186 : 19 **concentrate** [1] - 188 : 15 **concentrating** [1] - 266 : 12 **concept** [1] - 283:24 **concern** [5] - 193 :23 , 196 :25, 264:5, 265 :20 , 290: 18 **concerned** [8] - 232 : 15, 241 : 19 , 250 : 15, 263:6, 264:1, 265 : 10 , 308: 10 , 311 :3 **concerning** [2] - 257 :3, 257 :8 **concerns** [2] - 224:1, 262 :2 **conclude** [1] - 309 : 18 **conclusion** [9] - 197 :4, 201 :9, 223 :20 , 226 :8, 234 : 10 , 264 : 13 , 275:4, 285 :22 , 308: 14 **condition** [2] - 281 : 11 , 281 : 12 **conditions** [8] - 219 : 18 , 222 :25, 225 :9, 260 :6, 277 : 12 , 278 :1, 278 :3, 284 :6 **conduct** [1] - 181 :4 **configured** [2] - 273 :5, 273 :24 **confirm** [2] - 199:24, 285 :21 **confirmation** [1] - 199 :20 **confirmed** [2] - 199 : 15 **conflicts** [1] - 219:25 **confronted** [1] - 198 :6 **Congress** [ 17] - 219 : 17 , 220: 11 , 220 :21 , 220:22 , 222 : 12 , 223:6, 225 : 10 , 226:7, 226:8, 236 :3, 236 : 14 , 237:5, 290 : 19 , 291 :5, 293:2, 310 :23 , 311 : 15 **congressional** [2] - 221 : 17 , 227:7 **Congressman** [1] - 248 :22 **consent** [ 10] - 281 : 14 , 281 :20 , 281 :21 , 282 :7, 282 : 10 , 282 : 14 , 282 : 19 , 283:1, 283:7, 283 :21 **consider** [24] - 183 :7, 189 : 14 , 194 : 15, 197:5, 204:2, 204 : 16 , 222 :3, 222 :25, 223:21 , 224 :5, 236 : 15, 246 : 16 , 247:3, 250 : 18 , 252 :23 , 264 :6, 267 :1, 272 :23 , 275 : 12 , 292 :4, 298:5, 302 : 16 , 310:2, 310: 13 **considerable** [3] - 228 :21 , 263:20 , 291 :20 **considerably** [1] - 204 : 10 **consideration** [ 10] - 197 :7, 225 :23 , 236 :25, 292 :23 , 294 :5, 294 :21 , 301 :25, 302 : 12 , 302 :21 , 307:8 **considerations** [3] - 222 :22 , 259: 18 , 290 :24 **considered** [7] - 222 : 14 , 235:20 , 278 : 11 , 278: 18 , 279 :1, 295 :4, 303 :2 **considering** [4] - 220 :20 , 290:23 , 306 : 16 , 310:3 **consistent** [2] - 287 :6, 287 :8 **consistently** [2] - 198 : 10 , 250: 11 **consists** [2] - 224 :8, 245 :21 **Constance** [1] - 258 :20 **CO NSTANCE**  [3] - 178 :24 , 258: 12 , 265 :1 **constant** [1] - 248 :21 **constraint** [2] - 190 :3, 190 :9 **constraints** [3] - 183 : 16 , 187: 17 , 189 :22 **construction** [5] - 221 :6, 238 : 11 , 238 : 13 , 256: 18 , 256 :20 **consuming** [1] - 294 :9 **contact** [3] - 181 : 19 , 248 :21 , 249:1 **contaminants** [3] - 302 :6, 302 :8, 302 : 10 **contemporaneous** [1] - 291 :23 **contemporaneousl y**  [1] - 221 :8 **contention** [1] - 189 :7 **context** [3] - 259 : 17 , 264 :4, 274 :9 **continual** [1] - 210 :5 **continually** [1] - 248 :22 **continue** [4] - 186 :22 , 194:7, 215 :23 , 253: 15 **continued** [2] - 206 :24 , 221 : 16 **Continued** [3] - 176 :1, 178 :1, 179 :1 **continuing** [2] - 242 :9, 303 :21 **contractors** [2] - 253 :8, 261 :9 **contracts** [3] - 196 :23 , 214:3, 254:22 **contrary** [1] - 225:22 **contribute** [8] - 196 : 19 , 213:22 , 249 :25, 261 :7, 261 : 17 , 261 : 19 , 261 :23 , 279: 10 **contributing** [2] - 276 : 16 , 277: 18 **contributions** [4] - 261 :1, 261 :2, 262 : 12 , 262 : 13 **contributor** [3] - 242 : 16 , 243: 15, 274 : 16 **control** [19] - 208 : 16 , 220 : 14 , 220: 19 , 237 : 12 , 238:3, 248:6, 248 :8, 248 : 16 , 278:4, 280 :3, 282 : 11 , 283:9, 284 :7, 285 :6, 291 : 11 , 302 : 10 , 305:1, 308 :24 , 309:20 **Control** [5] - 238 : 17 , 295 : 16 , 301 : 17 , 301 :22 , 302 :1 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 6

**controlled** [1] - 284 :8 **controls** [ 12] - 264 : 16 , 273:24 , 281 : 14 , 281 : 17 , 282 :7, 282 : 10 , 296:6, 297 :2, 297 :3, 297 : 17 , 297 :21 **copies** [2] - 221 : 21 , 269 : 18 **copy** [2] - 181 :20 , 207 :3 **core** [1] - 198: 14 **Corners** [ 18] - 196 : 18 , 198: 16 , 198 : 18 , 199:7, 208:3, 208 : 10 , 209: 18 , 209 :25, 247:21 , 247 :25, 260: 19 , 260 :24 , 261 : 15, 262 : 16 , 262 : 19 , 262 :22 , 268:22 , 295 :9 **corporate** [1] - 198 : 11 **Corporation** [1] - 288 : 16 **corporation** [2] - 198 :4, 198 :6 **correct** [5] - 228 :25, 230 : 19 , 234:6, 279 : 12 , 295: 12 **corrections** [2] - 217 : 16 , 239: 16 **correctly** [1] - 220 : 10 **cost** [30] - 188 : 13 , 195 :8, 195 : 14 , 197:3, 203 :21 , 203:22 , 203 :24 , 204: 18 , 209 : 18 , 213: 11 , 213 : 15, 220:4, 224 : 15, 224: 17 , 228 : 13 , 237:9, 238 : 12 , 238: 15, 238 : 18 , 238:21 , 238 :23 , 250:25, 291 :9, 292 :22 , 293:8, 295 :6, 297 : 12 , 304 : 11 , 307:5 **Cost** [1] - 238: 17 **cost /** **benefit** [1] - 307 :4 **costs** [9] - 191 :4, 206 :23 , 209: 15, 213 : 13 , 214: 10 , 263 :4, 273 :25, 295:7, 295 : 18 **Counsel** [1] - 175: 17 **counsel** [5] - 181 : 23, 182 :24 , 290: 10 , 313 : 13 , 313: 16**counselor** [1] - 252 :2 **counselors** [1] - 252 :6 **count** [1] - 233 : 14 **counties** [4] - 208 : 10 , 209: 18 , 259 : 24 , 307:6 **counting** [1] - 253 :7 **country** [8] - 189 : 13 , 189 : 15, 204:4, 265 : 15, 266: 10 , 281 :5, 296 : 14 , 296: 19 **CO UNTY**  [1] - 313 :3 **county** [8] - 196 :9, 208 :9, 208 : 25, 246:6, 246 :9, 246 : 10 , 251 : 24 , 254: 17 **County** [22] - 185: 12, 185 : 18 , 185: 24 , 193 : 22 , 196: 20 , 206 : 18 , 207: 14 , 207 : 17 , 208:6, 208 : 22 , 210:6, 216 : 13 , 242 :1, 242 : 15, 242 : 20 , 244 : 16 , 245: 15, 245 : 17 , 245: 23 , 268 : 20 , 298: 16 **couple** [ 14] - 215 :8, 221 : 23 , 229:9, 233 : 23 , 245: 11 , 246 :5, 246 : 17 , 265:7, 271 : 21 , 284:1, 287 : 25, 300: 15, 301 :3, 306 : 19 **course** [ 14] - 186:3, 204 : 11 , 205: 17 , 222 : 12 , 222 : 17 , 252 : 23 , 253: 16 , 254 : 15, 265: 10 , 270 :1, 270 : 10 , 294 : 15, 295: 14 , 304 : 15 **court** [4] - 198 :7, 231 : 12 , 272 : 18 , 275 : 18 **Court** [1] - 181 : 18 **courts** [1] - 221 :6 **covers** [1] - 259 :21 **coworkers** [2] - 256 : 23 , 257:6 **CRAWFORD** [3] - 177 : 20 , 210: 18 , 210 : 24 **Crawford** [2] - 210 : 24 , 212 :3 **create** [3] - 195 :20 , 306 : 23 , 307: 15 **created** [2] - 203 :6, 267 :7 **creating** [2] - 243 : 14 , 245 :21 **creation** [2] - 245 : 19 , 246 : 13 **creator** [1] - 253 :22 **credentials** [2] - 217 :23 , 239:20 **credit** [1] - 230: 11 **credits** [1] - 268 : 17 **criteria** [4] - 291 :4, 291 :7, 297 : 14 , 311 : 15 **criterion** [1] - 290: 19 **CROSS** [1] - 234 :21 **cross** [3] - 178 :8, 181 : 15, 286: 15 **cross -** **examination** [2] - 181 : 15, 286 : 15 **crumble** [1] - 204 :9 **cry** [1] - 277:1 **crystal** [1] - 305 :8 **cumulative** [1] - 283 :3 **cumulatively** [1] - 263 :21 **curious** [1] - 238 : 10 **curiously** [1] - 229 : 10 **current** [3] - 187 :2, 221 : 15, 296: 17 **customer** [3] - 194 :9, 195 : 15, 213: 17 **customer 's**  [1] - 195 : 17 **customers** [2] - 194 :3, 195 :8 **cut** [1] - 215:6 

## D

**dad** [1] - 253:2 **Dallas** [1] - 272 : 16 **DANIEL** [4] - 178 : 12 , 245 :1, 245 :7, 245 : 10 **dark** [1] - 186:3 **data** [10] - 220 :3, 264 :9, 278 :9, 280 : 15, 280 : 16 , 281 :2, 281 :4, 281 :6, 281 : 19 **database** [2] - 280 : 12 , 281 :2 **date** [1] - 229 : 10 **days** [4] - 211 : 12 , 271 :21 , 300: 15, 301 :3 **de** [1] - 176: 17 **deadline** [2] - 230 :20 , 231 :5 **deal** [6] - 188 : 12 , 200 :7, 221 :25, 225 : 17 , 248: 18 , 272 : 14 **dealing** [2] - 270:3, 294 :20 **Dean** [1] - 180 :4 **Deanna** [1] - 207: 12 **DEANNA** [2] - 177 : 18 , 207:6 **death** [3] - 186 :2, 186 :5, 309 : 13 **deaths** [1] - 209 : 12 **DEBORAH** [1] - 175 :7 **decades** [1] - 206 : 16 **December** [1] - 198 :2 **decide** [1] - 186: 15 **decided** [3] - 202 : 15, 274 :8, 290 : 19 **decision** [23] - 194 : 17 , 194: 19 , 197 :8, 209 :5, 212 :25, 223 :3, 245 :22 , 248 :24 , 257: 14 , 267 :3, 270 : 17 , 292 :5, 292 :8, 293 :22 , 293 :23 , 298:24 , 299 : 10 , 299: 18 , 299 :25, 301 :25, 311 :6, 311 : 10 , 311 :23 **decision -** **makers** [1]

- 245 :22 **decision -** **making** [1]

- 299 : 10 **decisionmaking** [1] - 223 :1 **decisions** [6] - 204 :5, 256 : 11 , 256 : 14 , 256:24 , 265 :23 , 301 : 16 **deciview** [5] - 224 :23 , 285:21 , 286 :8, 292 : 13 , 292 : 15 **deciviews** [2] - 279 : 13 , 283:25 **declare** [1] - 201 :2 **decree** [ 11 ] - 281 : 14, 281 :20 , 281 :22 , 282 :7, 282 : 10 , 282 : 14 , 282 : 19 , 283 :1, 283 :7, 283 :21 **dedication** [1] - 294 : 14 **deeds** [1] - 189 : 15 **deemed** [1] - 238:20 **deems** [1] - 222 :20 **defensible** [1] - 298 :2 **deference** [1] - 275:5 **definitely** [1] - 247 :20 **degrades** [2] - 201 :7, 224 : 15 **degree** [4] - 218 :6, 242 :6, 291 : 11 , 302 :2 **delayed** [1] - 228 :24 **delegated** [1] - 219 : 17 **deliberate** [3] - 181 : 11 , 270: 17 , 271 :9 **deliberating** [1] - 272 :9 **deliberations** [3] - 289 :22 , 290: 16 , 300 : 16 **demands** [1] - 194 :8 **demonstration** [1] - 299 :1 **demonstrations** [1] - 293 : 14 **department** [1] - 259 :6 **Department** [ 19] - 175 :3, 175 : 16 , 175 : 18 , 182 :8, 195 : 13 , 201 : 13 , 220 :1, 220 :3, 220 : 10 , 225 :2, 226 :5, 235 : 10 , 235 :21 , 271 :2, 271 : 10 , 295: 10 , 298 :1, 302 :20 , 303:7 **Department 's**  [12] - 207 : 19 , 225:5, 225 :23 , 226: 10 , 231 :23 , 236: 17 , 236 :20 , 241 : 15, 271 :5, 292 : 19 , 298:8, 312 :3 **dependent** [5] - 203 :4, 232 :20 , 260 : 16 , 260: 17 , 307 : 14 **depiction** [1] - 285 :5 **Desert** [7] - 197:25, 198 :9, 198 : 14 , 199 : 11 , 199:25, 200 :25, 201 :9 **deserving** [1] - 243 :21 **design** [1] - 238:22 **designated** [1] - 219 :21 **designed** [1] - 224 :9 **despite** [1] - 199: 19 **destiny** [1] - 303 : 17 **deterioration** [1] - 210 :5 **determinant** [1] - 225 :1 **determination** [40] - 218 : 19 , 220:9, 223:7, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 7

223 :8, 223 : 14 , 223 :23 , 224:2, 224:5, 224 :8, 225 :2, 225 : 11 , 225 : 13 , 225: 14 , 226 : 10 , 226: 11 , 226 : 13 , 228:7, 228 : 12 , 228: 17 , 228 : 19 , 229: 11 , 230 :5, 231 :3, 233 : 18 , 235 :7, 235 :21 , 262 :4, 262 : 15, 272 : 11 , 274 :9, 275 :7, 291 :8, 291 : 16 , 292 : 12 , 293 :1, 293 :9, 293 : 11 , 294 : 16 , 295: 13 **determinations** [8] - 221 : 15, 221 : 18 , 222 : 10 , 229:9, 262 :23 , 263:3, 292 :1, 296 : 19 **determine** [2] - 292 :21 , 303: 16 **determined** [8] - 219 : 19 , 220: 11 , 221 : 14 , 223:22 , 226 :9, 296 :23 , 297:1, 297 : 12 **determines** [1] - 235 : 10 **determining** [5] - 221 :25, 222 : 14 , 225 :6, 225 :23 , 293:5 **detrimental** [1] - 263 :3 **develop** [1] - 259: 14 **developed** [1] - 232 :8 **developing** [1] - 310 :25 **development** [6] - 195 :24 , 210:2, 222 :9, 243 : 13 , 245: 15, 260 :1 **Development** [1] - 245 : 14 **DIANE** [2] - 179 :6, 276 :2 **difference** [ 12] - 185 : 10 , 192 :1, 192 :9, 203 :24 , 213: 10 , 213 : 12 , 213: 13 , 280 :2, 280 :6, 285 : 12 , 285 :23 , 295:1 **different** [11 ] - 191 :3, 227 :20 , 235:25, 254 :22 , 273: 15, 273 :22 , 274: 12 , 275 :4, 281 :5, 281 :6, 311 :9 **difficult** [3] - 192 :2, 266 : 14 , 294:8**difficulty** [1] - 209 :3 **diligence** [1] - 299 :2 **dimensional** [1] - 280 : 14 **dioxide** [1] - 213:3 **diploma** [1] - 252 :5 **DIRECT** [22] - 184 : 11 , 187: 23 , 190 : 18 , 193:7, 197 : 18 , 202 :4, 205:4, 207 :9, 210 : 21 , 212 :8, 214 : 21 , 217:7, 239:9, 245 :4, 247 : 15, 249 : 13 , 251 : 12 , 255 : 22 , 259:4, 265:4, 268 :4, 286 : 22 **Direct** [8] - 177:5, 177 :7, 177 : 21 , 178:5, 178 : 11 , 179:8, 180:4, 180 :5 **direct** [20] - 177 :9, 177 : 11 , 177: 13 , 177 : 15, 177: 17 , 177 : 19 , 177: 23 , 177 : 25, 178: 13 , 178 : 15, 178: 17 , 178 : 19 , 178: 21 , 178 : 23 , 178: 25, 179 :5, 221 : 21 , 260 : 25, 261 :2, 264: 11 **directed** [1] - 269 : 15 **directly** [6] - 181 : 19 , 256 : 18 , 256: 19 , 256 : 24 , 257: 11 , 263 : 14 **director** [2] - 245 : 13 , 246 :7 **directors** [1] - 246:2 **dirt** [3] - 276 : 18 , 276 : 19 , 276: 21 **dirty** [3] - 246: 11 **discretion** [7] - 219 : 17 , 222 :5, 228:7, 270 : 14 , 291 : 15, 292 : 21 , 293:6 **discriminate** [2] - 200 :5, 200 :8 **discrimination** [2] - 199 : 25, 200:9 **discuss** [1] - 227 : 15 **discussed** [3] - 238 : 16 , 281 : 14 , 283 :2 **discussing** [1] - 276 : 20 **discussion** [3] - 198 : 21 , 224: 16 , 296 : 13 **Discussion** [1] - 277 : 10 **diseases** [1] - 309: 12 **disgusted** [1] - 185 : 11 **District** [2] - 184: 15, 246 :7 **districts** [1] - 257 : 13 **Division** [1] - 175: 12 **docketed** [1] - 181 :6 **document** [4] - 278 :8, 288 :3, 289 : 12 , 293 :22 **documentation** [2] - 199 :4, 246 :4 **documented** [1] - 199 :9 **dollar** [2] - 224 :25, 228 : 14 **dollars** [ 11 ] - 213:25, 224 : 17 , 224:20 , 224 :23 , 246: 18 , 248 :6, 285 : 11 , 285 : 13 , 285:23 , 295 :1, 305 : 10 **done** [22] - 194 :24 , 199 :23 , 204:5, 204 :20 , 221 :20 , 222 :7, 227 : 18 , 235 :21 , 253: 14 , 254 : 15, 255:1, 272 :6, 272 : 14 , 273: 18 , 278 :1, 281 :9, 284 :7, 284 : 17 , 293: 14 , 303 : 12 , 311 :1, 311 :6 **donor** [1] - 243 : 17 **Dooda** [6] - 197 :25, 198 :9, 198 : 14 , 199 :25, 200:24 , 201 :9 **door** [1] - 201 :21 **double** [1] - 215 : 18 **down** [ 18] - 183: 18, 183 :20 , 186: 12 , 186 : 13 , 186:22 , 209 : 17 , 224: 13 , 234 :24 , 254: 17 , 257 : 17 , 263:20 , 268 :20 , 282 : 14 , 282 :20 , 290: 10 , 292 :5, 292 : 12 , 304: 14 **downstream** [1] - 287 : 15 **DO YLE**  [3] - 177 :24 , 214 : 18 , 214:24 **Doyle** [1] - 214:24 **Dr** [4] - 192 :23, 193 : 10 , 197: 10 , 214 :6 **draft** [2] - 195 : 11 , 226 :3 **dramatic** [1] - 206 : 10 **dramatically** [2] - 185 :6, 263 :22 **draw** [1] - 266:20 **Drawer** [1] - 175: 13 **drawn** [1] - 266 :21 **drifts** [1] - 255 :7 **driv e**  [4] - 211 : 18, 277 : 14 , 287: 16 , 287 : 17 **Drive** [2] - 175:4, 175 : 19 **driv ing**  [1] - 276 : 10 **drought** [1] - 210 :3 **drove** [1] - 286:25 **due** [3] - 206: 12, 250 :8, 284 : 15 **duly** [25] - 184:9, 187 :21 , 190: 16 , 193 :5, 197 : 16 , 202 :2, 205 :2, 207 :7, 210 : 19 , 212 :6, 214 : 19 , 216 :24 , 217:5, 239:7, 245 :2, 247 : 13 , 249 : 11 , 251 : 10 , 255 :20 , 258: 13 , 259 :2, 265 :2, 268 :2, 276 :3, 313 :9 **during** [1] - 294: 10 **dust** [5] - 185:3, 276 : 12 , 278:21 , 278 :22 , 278:24 **dusty** [1] - 277 : 13 **duty** [1] - 295 : 14 **dynamic** [1] - 205 : 15 **dy namics**  [1] - 261 :20 

## E

**E-I-S-E-N-F-E-L-D** [1] - 205:8 **early** [1] - 221 : 12 **Earth** [6] - 200 :22 , 200 :23 , 201 :2, 201 :4, 201 :7, 201 : 10 **easily** [4] - 266 :8, 266 : 11 , 266: 13 , 267 :4 **Economic** [1] - 245 : 14 **economic** [34] - 185 :24 , 187:1, 194 : 17 , 194:21 , 194 :25, 195:24 , 196 : 19 , 208:2, 209:6, 209 :24 , 210:1, 213 :22 , 214:5, 226:1, 245 : 14 , 245:20 , 250 :8, 250 : 18 , 250 :21 , 250:25, 257 : 10 , 260:1, 261 :3, 261 :20 , 263:21 , 266 : 18 , 273: 15, 301 :7, 301 :8, 302 :5, 302 :7, 302 :24 , 307:5, 307 : 10 **economic -** **based** [1]

- 245 :20 **economically** [2] - 249 :25, 306: 13 **economics** [1] - 265 :9 **economy** [ 16] - 185 :20 , 186: 10 , 188 : 14 , 191 : 15, 214 :9, 218 : 13 , 242 : 17 , 250:3, 251 :4, 261 :8, 261 : 18 , 261 : 19 , 262 :9, 267:6, 267 : 13 , 306: 11 **education** [1] - 242 :9 **educator** [1] - 252 :1 **effect** [9] - 203 : 10, 224 : 11 , 250:3, 250 : 16 , 263:2, 272 : 16 , 283:3, 297:3, 297 : 19 **effective** [4] - 203 : 13 , 213: 11 , 297 : 12 , 304: 11 **effectiveness** [4] - 208 : 17 , 224: 15, 224 : 17 , 224:21 **Effects** [1] - 288:5 **effects** [9] - 203 : 11 , 235 : 19 , 236:7, 236 : 13 , 263:21 , 266 :1, 266 :3, 269 : 17 **effort** [4] - 202 : 18 , 248 :7, 273 :9, 299 :9 **efforts** [8] - 194 :5, 194 : 10 , 200: 11 , 248 : 14 , 298: 15, 300 :2, 303 :6, 303 : 14 **eggs** [1] - 225 :3 **EIB** [8] - 174 :3, 181 :6, 194 : 15, 205 : 10 , 206:21 , 212 : 14 , 245: 10 , 290 :5 **eight** [1] - 215 : 14 **Eisenfeld** [3] - 205:7, 205 : 12 , 207:1 **EISENFELD** [4] - 177 : 16 , 205:1, 205:7, 205 : 10 **either** [4] - 271 :4, 271 : 10 , 292 : 19 , 292 :20 **EJT** [1] - 285:3 **elderly** [1] - 191 :9 **elders** [1] - 254 : 11 **elected** [1] - 183:4 **Electric** [1] - 256 : 10 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 8

**electrical** [1] - 218 : 12 **electricity** [ 13] - 186 : 19 , 194:3, 194:8, 195 : 18 , 203:5, 206 : 13 , 209:21 , 215 :5, 215 : 15, 256 : 10 , 257:22 , 260 : 11 , 307:9 **eliminating** [1] - 302 :7 **ELIZA BETH**  [1] - 175 : 10 **Eloise** [1] - 197 :21 **ELOISE** [3] - 177 : 12 , 197 : 15, 197:21 **eloquently** [1] - 291 :7 **emission** [5] - 194 : 12 , 213:2, 220 : 17 , 261 :22 , 282 : 16 **emissions** [ 14] - 188 :22 , 194: 11 , 195 :6, 206 :9, 206 : 18 , 207 :24 , 211 :7, 230:6, 235 : 19 , 261 :24 , 261 :25, 296: 11 , 311 : 16 **Emissions** [2] - 180 :8, 288 : 15 **emphasis** [2] - 218 :4, 224 : 16 **emphasize** [3] - 221 : 17 , 224:24 , 290 : 17 **employed** [7] - 239 :21 , 242 : 11 , 246 :25, 249:23 , 253 :8, 313 : 13 , 313: 16 **employee** [1] - 313 : 15 **employees** [1] - 243 :5 **employer** [1] - 242 :20 **employers** [2] - 196 : 18 , 213:21 **employment** [3] - 196 :5, 242 :5, 242 : 14 **employs** [2] - 213 :23 , 243:4 **enabling** [1] - 253 : 10 **enact** [1] - 290 :24 **enacted** [3] - 220: 22, 221 :9, 229 :5 **encompassing** [1] - 306 :1 **encourage** [4] - 210 : 11 , 219: 13 ,248 : 17 , 249:1 **encourages** [1] - 226 : 12 **end** [8] - 187:3, 215 :7, 222 : 14 , 226:9, 267 : 11 , 267: 12 , 308 : 24 **endanger** [1] - 199 :8 **ended** [1] - 293 :9 **energies** [1] - 189: 18 **Energy** [2] - 176:9, 252 : 18 **energy** [20] - 186: 11 , 186 : 13 , 194:6, 203 : 18 , 203: 20 , 210 : 10 , 215:6, 215 : 11 , 215: 13 , 218 :3, 242 :3, 242 :8, 257 : 20 , 267:6, 267 : 13 , 267: 15, 267 : 18 , 291 : 10 , 308 : 22 , 310: 15 **engaged** [1] - 198:4 **engagement** [1] - 299 :7 **engine** [3] - 185:24 , 187 :1, 214 :5 **engineering** [4] - 218 :8, 238 : 22 , 307 : 20 , 307: 21 **Engineers** [4] - 240 :3, 242 : 19 , 249 : 20 , 256: 21 **engineers** [1] - 312 :4 **enjoy** [1] - 246 :24 **enjoyed** [1] - 242 :5 **enjoying** [1] - 216 : 14 **entire** [2] - 185:25, 294 : 10 **Environment** [ 11 ] - 175 :3, 175 : 16 , 175 : 18 , 182 :8, 195 : 13 , 207: 19 , 256 :4, 295 : 10 , 297 : 25, 298:8, 312 :2 **environment** [ 10] - 185 : 14 , 189: 17 , 195 : 15, 246: 11 , 246 : 24 , 250: 15, 250 : 17 , 266: 22 , 301 :8, 301 :9 **environmental** [ 14] - 188 : 12 , 189: 15, 190 : 25, 191 :6, 200 : 10 , 200: 24 , 208 :3, 210 : 11 , 218:4, 237 : 10 , 250: 25, 259 :6, 291 :3, 310 :1 **ENVIRONMENTAL** [1] - 174:1 **Environmental** [21 ] - 174 : 17 , 175:6, 181 :3, 183 :23 , 195: 10 , 197 :4, 199 : 12 , 199 : 17 , 200:1, 201 : 12 , 207: 18 , 210 :7, 212 :20 , 241 : 15, 241 :20 , 251 :20 , 259:7, 259:9, 301 :22 , 302 : 19 , 303 :7 **EPA** [85] - 194 :22 , 199 :20 , 205: 17 , 208 : 15, 208: 16 , 208 :21 , 208:25, 213 :4, 213 : 14 , 215:3, 220 :24 , 221 :2, 221 : 11 , 221 : 16 , 221 : 19 , 221 :23 , 222 :2, 222 :8, 222 : 15, 223 : 10 , 223: 12 , 224 : 11 , 224: 18 , 227 : 17 , 228:3, 228:6, 228 : 17 , 228:21 , 228 :23 , 229:9, 229 : 11 , 229: 17 , 230 :21 , 231 :2, 231 :7, 231 :9, 231 :20 , 231 :22 , 232 :8, 232 : 15, 232 :22 , 233 :9, 233 : 17 , 238:6, 248 :24 , 249:4, 254:5, 254 :25, 257:4, 262 :3, 263 :9, 271 :21 , 271 :24 , 272 :4, 272 :6, 272 :8, 272 : 13 , 272 : 18 , 273:2, 273 : 13 , 273: 18 , 273 : 19 , 274:3, 274:8, 274 : 14 , 274:23 , 275 :1, 275 : 11 , 285:3, 290 :25, 295:25, 296 :1, 296 : 14 , 297 : 16 , 305: 13 , 305 :25, 306: 12 , 307 :4, 308 : 10 , 308 : 12 , 308: 13 , 308 :21 , 310:1, 312 :5 **EPA 's**  [26] - 195:9, 207 :21 , 213: 10 , 219 :25, 220:8, 221 :20 , 223:22 , 223 :23 , 224:2, 224:5, 224 :8, 224 : 14 , 225:1, 225 :7, 225 : 11 , 225 :22 , 226: 11 , 227 : 14 , 228: 14 , 232 : 11 , 232 : 12 , 233 : 12 , 238: 17 , 297 :7, 297 : 14 , 309: 19 **equally** [1] - 278 :8 **equates** [1] - 242 :25 **equation** [3] - 277 : 19 , 277:20 , 279 :3 **equipment** [5] - 243 :2, 248 :6, 280 : 10 , 302 :9, 311 :9 **equity** [1] - 206:22 **equiv alent**  [2] - 230 :6, 279 : 19 **era** [1] - 267 : 10 **errand** [1] - 275 : 10 **especially** [4] - 188 : 14 , 213:6, 259 : 16 , 305:21 **essentially** [1] - 184 :21 **establish** [5] - 232 :22 , 241 : 16 , 241 :21 , 241 :23 , 291 : 14 **established** [6] - 231 : 12 , 243:20 , 266 : 10 , 291 :4, 291 : 19 , 292 :23 **estimate** [2] - 238 :22 , 238:23 **estimated** [7] - 196 :8, 196 :22 , 209:7, 209 : 12 , 209: 15, 209 : 19 , 213: 15 **estimating** [1] - 196 :6 **et** [1] - 195 :20 **EUGENIA** [4] - 178 :22 , 258: 12 , 258 : 16 , 259:1 **Eugenia** [2] - 258 : 16 , 259 :5 **evaluated** [1] - 231 : 19 **evaluations** [1] - 278 :4 **evening** [1] - 270: 10 **event** [3] - 270 :9, 277 : 13 , 287:9 **everywhere** [1] - 276 : 13 **evidence** [7] - 201 :22 , 218:22 , 219 :9, 240 : 13 , 289 : 10 , 293: 16 , 302 : 16 **evidentiary** [4] - 288 :2, 289 : 14 , 289 : 17 , 290:7 **exact** [1] - 263 :2 **exactly** [1] - 260 :21 **Examination** [7] - 178 :5, 178 :7, 178 :8, 178 :9, 178 : 11 , 179:7, 179 :8 **EXAMINATION** [8] - 217 :7, 227 :3, 234 :1, 234 :21 , 235: 15, 239 :9, 276 :5, 286 :22 **examination** [3] - 178 :6, 181 : 15, 286: 15 **examined** [22] - 184 : 10 , 187:22 , 190 : 17 , 193:6, 197 : 17 , 202 :3, 205:3, 207 :8, 210 :20 , 212 :7, 214 :20 , 217:6, 239:8, 245 :3, 247 : 14 , 249 : 12 , 251 : 11 , 255 :21 , 259:3, 265:3, 268 :3, 276 :4 **Examiner** [3] - 269 : 13 , 269:24 , 294 :2 **example** [4] - 195 :5, 221 :24 , 225: 11 , 242 :2 **exceeds** [1] - 242 :22 **excellence** [5] - 203 :8, 204 :3, 204 : 14 , 306 :3, 306 :4 **excellent** [4] - 202 : 15, 202 : 19 , 202 :23 , 311 :4 **exchange** [1] - 292 :9 **excuse** [4] - 234 : 16 , 239 :1, 244 : 12 , 287:20 **executive** [3] - 245 : 13 , 246:7, 259:8 **exercise** [1] - 293 :6 **exhaust** [1] - 297:23 **Exhibit** [5] - 211 : 11 , 219 :9, 285 :3, 289 : 10 , 293 :21 **exhibit** [3] - 219:3, 219 :4, 240 : 13 **exhibits** [2] - 285 :1, 294 :25 **exist** [1] - 266 :23 **existing** [5] - 198 :24, 234 :9, 264 : 16 , 291 : 10 , 297:3 **exorbitant** [1] - 263 :4 **expansion** [1] - 245 : 19 **expect** [4] - 181 : 12 , 206 : 14 , 237:20 , 296 :2 **expected** [1] - 197 :1 **expensive** [2] - 215 : 12 , 215: 14 **experience** [1] - 302 :9 **experiencing** [1] - 255 :8 **Expires** [2] - 313 :20 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 9

313 :22 **exploratory** [1] - 198 :5 **exponential** [1] - 263 :3 **expressed** [1] - 262 :1 **extend** [1] - 293 : 15 **extended** [1] - 267 : 16 **extension** [1] - 272 : 19 **extent** [2] - 236 :6, 272 : 13 **extenuating** [1] - 275 :5 **exterior** [2] - 241 :8, 259 :22 **external** [1] - 240 :4 **externalities** [3] - 265 :24 , 266: 15, 267 :2 **eyes** [2] - 228: 15, 289 :3 

## F

**F-A-L-K** [1] - 258 : 21 **faced** [1] - 204 :4 **facilities** [3] - 260 :9, 296 :2, 303 : 16 **facility** [3] - 216 : 15, 262 :8, 279 : 15 **facing** [1] - 189 :2 **fact** [ 10] - 185 : 18 , 186 :21 , 199:5, 199:7, 206 : 12 , 213:4, 224 :25, 289:1, 297 : 16 , 306: 15 **factor** [6] - 209 :5, 224 : 14 , 277: 18 , 293 :1, 295 :6, 309 :7 **factors** [25] - 204 : 17 , 219 :20 , 220:21 , 222 : 13 , 222 : 16 , 222 : 19 , 223:3, 223 :24 , 225:8, 225 :24 , 226:6, 236 : 13 , 236: 14 , 236 :25, 237:5, 237:7, 237 :8, 238 : 19 , 276 : 16 , 292 :4, 292 :23 , 301 :24 , 302 : 12 , 305:2, 310:2 **facts** [1] - 306 : 17 **failure** [1] - 200 :2 **fair** [1] - 194 : 16 **fairness** [2] - 195 :5, 197 :7 **Falk** [3] - 258 :20 ,264 : 21 , 267: 20 **FALK** [7] - 178 :24 , 258 :7, 258 : 10 , 258 : 12 , 258: 20 , 265 :1, 265 :5 **falls** [1] - 274 : 11 **familiar** [4] - 190 :25, 233 : 11 , 237: 23 , 251 : 23 **familiarity** [1] - 237 : 17 **family** [6] - 205: 13, 250 : 15, 250: 19 , 256 : 23 , 256: 25 **family 's**  [1] - 250 : 16 **far** [8] - 191 :3, 228 :4, 274 : 11 , 277:1, 284 : 18 , 292 : 11 , 306 : 17 , 307: 17 **Farmington** [26] - 174 : 19 , 176: 11 , 180 :9, 183 : 24 , 183 : 25, 184: 16 , 184 : 20 , 184: 22 , 184 : 24 , 185:2, 188:6, 188 :7, 202 :9, 204 :6, 205 : 11 , 205: 13 , 205 : 15, 212 : 17 , 212 : 19 , 216: 13 , 245 : 16 , 250: 11 , 268 : 10 , 268: 24 , 298 : 16 , 310:7 **fashion** [1] - 202 : 16 **fast** [1] - 307:2 **faster** [1] - 307:3 **father** [2] - 240 : 19 , 250 : 17 **favor** [6] - 295 : 11 , 308 :8, 308 : 16 , 308 : 18 , 308: 21 , 312 : 15 **Fe** [6] - 175:5, 175 : 13 , 175: 20 , 176 : 17 , 181 :9, 276: 11 **fear** [1] - 266 : 17 **feasible** [1] - 279 :21 **February** [1] - 247 :22 **federal** [ 11 ] - 195: 16 , 196 : 25, 241 :5, 242 : 24 , 243:1, 243:7, 243 :8, 260 :4, 272 : 18 , 291 :1, 303 :9 **Federal** [3] - 250 :20 , 274 : 10 , 274: 14 **Felicia** [1] - 181 :2 **FELICIA** [1] - 175:3 **few** [5] - 190 :4, 270 : 19 , 270: 20 , 290 : 16 , 305: 24 **field** [1] - 280 : 14 **fifty** [1] - 200: 15 **fifty -** **six** [1] - 200: 15 **fights** [1] - 192 :3 **figure** [2] - 209: 17 , 228 : 14 **figured** [1] - 238: 10 **Figures** [1] - 211 : 11 **filed** [3] - 199 :25, 206 :5, 270 :6 **fill** [1] - 191 : 12 **filling** [1] - 295 : 14 **final** [2] - 222 :8, 272 :8 **finally** [2] - 191 :24, 234 : 10 **financial** [1] - 195 :21 **financially** [1] - 313 : 16 **findings** [1] - 219:25 **FIP** [7] - 231 :9, 231 : 10 , 263:9, 272 :7, 274 :6, 274 :7, 304 :23 **fire** [1] - 1 96 : 11 **fired** [ 10] - 189 : 12, 194 :2, 196 : 12 , 203:4, 208 :9, 210 :4, 215 : 16 , 224 : 12 , 228:20 , 233 : 12 **firm** [1] - 238 :22 **first** [32] - 183: 14, 184 :9, 187 :21 , 190 : 16 , 193:5, 197 : 16 , 202 :2, 205:2, 205 :22 , 207:7, 210 : 19 , 212 :6, 214 : 19 , 216:21 , 217 :5, 239 :7, 240 :21 , 243 : 17 , 245:2, 247 : 13 , 249: 11 , 251 : 10 , 255:20 , 258 :8, 259 :2, 265 :2, 268 :2, 273 :3, 282 :2, 290 : 17 , 294:4, 308:1 **Fischer** [3] - 275 :23 , 275 :25, 287:23 **FISCHER** [8] - 179 :6, 276 :2, 278 :20 , 279 :23 , 280:5, 280:8, 281 : 19 , 285: 17 **fits** [2] - 225:22 , 227 : 14 **five** [17] - 200 : 15, 200 : 18 , 220:21 , 222 : 13 , 224: 14 , 234 :24 , 236: 13 , 236 : 14 , 236:25, 237 :5, 237 :8, 237 :20 , 250 :5, 263 : 11 , 302 : 12 , 305:2, 306:22 **five -** **factor** [1] - 224 : 14 **five -** **year** [1] - 306:22 **fix** [1] - 269:1 **flatly** [1] - 223 : 18 **flawed** [1] - 238:9 **flaws** [1] - 223 :22 **flexibility** [4] - 221 :25, 222 :20 , 231 : 14 , 233:1 **flip** [1] - 185: 17 **flying** [1] - 278 :21 **focus** [9] - 189 : 17 , 220 : 10 , 229:24 , 236 :3, 236 :23 , 237:4, 292 : 11 , 303:8 **focused** [3] - 236:1, 302 :22 , 310:21 **focuses** [1] - 218:3 **focusing** [2] - 220:8, 266 :7 **fold** [1] - 208: 16 **Folded** [2] - 240 :22 , 240 :23 **folks** [5] - 191 : 10 , 192 : 16 , 196:7, 245 :23 , 254:5 **follow** [ 12] - 199 : 13, 199 :23 , 232 :5, 232 : 17 , 234: 19 , 236 :22 , 270: 13 , 271 :24 , 272 :22 , 276 :9, 286 :21 , 292 :2 **follow -** **up** [7] - 199 : 13 , 199:23 , 234 : 19 , 236:22 , 270 : 13 , 276:9, 286:21 **following** [3] - 219 :23 , 223: 15, 272 :25 **follows** [22] - 184 : 10 , 187 :22 , 190: 17 , 193 :6, 197 : 17 , 202 :3, 205 :3, 207 :8, 210 :20 , 212 :7, 214 :20 , 217:6, 239 :8, 245 :3, 247 : 14 , 249 : 12 , 251 : 11 , 255 :21 , 259:3, 265:3, 268 :3, 276 :4 **food** [1] - 191 : 12 **fool 's**  [1] - 275 : 10 **foot** [1] - 304 : 18 **foothills** [1] - 253:3 **FOR** [1] - 174 :5 **force** [1] - 215 : 19 **forced** [2] - 226:3, 263 :23 **forefront** [1] - 305 :21 **foregoing** [2] - 313 :7, 313 :8 **forests** [1] - 209:24 **forgot** [1] - 201 :20 **form** [2] - 288 :6, 289 :2 **formed** [1] - 198:2 **former** [1] - 212 : 19 **forms** [1] - 210 : 10 **formula** [1] - 292 : 17 **forth** [5] - 232 : 12, 279 : 18 , 280: 11 , 301 : 17 , 301 : 19 **fortunate** [2] - 252 :9, 254 : 19 **fortunately** [1] - 225 :3 **forward** [3] - 268 : 16 , 303 :21 , 308:2 **fossil** [1] - 267 : 10 **fought** [1] - 204: 14 **Four** [ 18] - 196: 18, 198 : 15, 198: 18 , 199 :7, 208 :3, 208 : 10 , 209 : 18 , 209:25, 247 :21 , 247:25, 260 : 19 , 260:24 , 261 : 15, 262 : 16 , 262 : 19 , 262 :21 , 268 :22 , 295:9 **four** [5] - 188 : 19 , 205 : 17 , 208: 11 , 208 : 16 , 215: 14 **frame** [1] - 262 :24 **Francis** [2] - 175 :4, 175 : 19 **Francisco** [1] - 199 : 12 **freely** [1] - 246 :4 **freeware** [1] - 284 :4 **freeze** [1] - 186 :2 **frequent** [1] - 184:25 **frequently** [1] - 262 : 11 **friends** [2] - 256 :22, 256 :25 **front** [1] - 240 :1 **frustrating** [1] - 227 :25 **fuel** [6] - 196: 17, 213 :20 , 232 : 10 , 249 :23 , 267: 10 , 282 :24 **fugitive** [2] - 278 :22 , 278 :24 **FULFER** [6] - 175:7, 238 :6, 280 :24 , 281 :8, 282 :1, 305 : 19 **Fulfer** [3] - 238:5, 280 :23 , 309:5 **fulfills** [1] - 226 : 10 **full** [21 ] - 184 : 13 , 187 :24 , 190:20 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

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# 10

193 :9, 197 :20 , 205:5, 207 : 10 , 210:22 , 212 :9, 213 :24 , 214 :22 , 245:5, 249 : 14 , 251 : 13 , 255 :24 , 258: 15, 268 :6, 274 : 10 , 274 :20 , 274:22 , 275 :24 **full -time**  [1] - 213 :24 **fully** [2] - 193 :25, 213 :1 **fund** [1] - 243:20 **fundamental** [2] - 201 :4, 221 :5 **funds** [1] - 252 : 17 **FURTHER** [4] - 210 :21 , 235: 15, 276 :5, 286 :22 **furthermore** [1] - 195 : 19 **futile** [1] - 273 :9 **future** [6] - 194 : 18 , 202 : 12 , 221 :20 , 235 :8, 235 : 10 , 241 : 12 

## G

**G-L-A-S-S** [1] - 202 :7 **G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-S** [1]

- 190 :22 **gained** [3] - 237: 14 , 279 : 14 , 282 : 11 **gas** [5] - 194 :2, 194 :7, 210 :2, 215 :9, 260 : 11 **gas -** **fired** [1] - 194 :2 **gavel** [1] - 300 : 10 **general** [2] - 198 :23 , 257 : 12 **General** [3] - 175 : 11 , 175 : 12 , 175: 17 **generally** [1] - 297 : 12 **generating** [1] - 196 : 17 **Generating** [52] - 180 :9, 188 :21 , 190 :23 , 196: 16 , 199 :8, 206 :6, 206 :8, 206 : 14 , 206: 19 , 206 :23 , 207:22 , 208 :1, 208 :7, 208 :23 , 209 : 12 , 209:22 , 210 :9, 212 : 15, 213 : 15, 213: 19 , 219 : 15, 227: 17 , 235 :4, 235 : 12 , 241 : 10 , 241 : 13 ,241 : 16 , 241 : 21 ,

241 : 23 , 249: 24 , 250 :9, 260 : 20 , 260 : 25, 261 :6, 261 : 10 , 261 : 15, 261 : 16 , 262 :3, 262 :6, 262 : 11 , 262 : 16 , 263 :7, 263 : 10 , 263 : 13 , 263: 19 , 263 : 23 , 264:3, 273:3, 273 : 20 , 283:6, 288 : 15, 294: 16 **gentleman** [2] - 229 : 23 , 267: 22 **gentlemen** [3] - 249 : 19 , 251 :5, 251 : 19 **geographical** [1] - 256 : 15 **Geological** [1] - 199 : 10 **given** [6] - 197 :2, 230 : 10 , 230: 24 , 253 : 23 , 301 : 10 , 313 : 12 **glad** [2] - 187 : 10 , 270 : 11 **Glass** [2] - 202 :7, 204 : 22 **GLASS** [3] - 177: 14, 202 :1, 202 :7 **global** [3] - 255 :2, 255 :5, 310 : 16 **goal** [2] - 186 : 23 , 235 : 12 **goals** [1] - 264 : 18 **God** [1] - 301 :9 **golf** [1] - 204: 11 **GONZALES** [4] - 177 :8, 190 : 12 , 190 : 15, 190: 21 **Gonzales** [2] - 190 : 21 , 192 : 22 **Goodrich** [1] - 182 : 20 **Google** [2] - 273 :20 , 273 : 21 **GORDON** [3] - 177 : 14 , 202 :1, 202 :7 **Gordon** [1] - 202 :7 **government** [5] - 185 : 19 , 197:6, 198 : 11 , 214:1, 303:9 **governmental** [1] - 239 : 25 **governments** [2] - 195 : 19 , 251 : 24 **Gradient** [1] - 288: 16 **Grail** [1] - 232 :21 **grandchildren** [1] - 203 : 15 **grandfathers** [2] - 240 :22 , 240:23 **Grantham** [9] - 178 :8, 182 :6, 182 :7, 226 : 19 , 244:3, 270 :25, 289:21 , 290 :9, 293 :25 **GRA NTHAM**  [ 13] - 175 : 17 , 182 :7, 226 :21 , 234: 17 , 234 : 19 , 234:22 , 235 : 13 , 244:4, 271 :1, 286 : 17 , 288:9, 288 : 17 , 290: 12 **graphics** [3] - 284 :2, 284 : 11 , 284: 13 **gray** [1] - 218: 10 **great** [ 13] - 185 : 13 , 185 :22 , 185:23 , 185 :24 , 191 :23 , 221 :25, 232 : 18 , 250 :22 , 259:24 , 269 : 19 , 305:3, 308: 16 **greater** [2] - 195 :20 , 232 :23 **greatest** [2] - 189 : 18 , 265 : 14 **green** [5] - 257:20, 267 :6, 267 : 15, 267 : 17 , 310: 15 **GREGORY** [1] - 175 :7 **grew** [1] - 184:21 **ground** [2] - 208:20 , 273 :23 **grounds** [1] - 219 :24 **group** [1] - 245 : 15 **grown** [1] - 306:5 **growth** [1] - 210:1 **guess** [6] - 183 :21 , 211 : 16 , 223: 12 , 223 : 13 , 237:25, 248 :20 **guidance** [6] - 222 : 18 , 228:2, 252 :2, 292 :3, 297 :8, 311 :24 **Guidelines** [1] - 222 :25 **guidelines** [22] - 221 :4, 221 : 16 , 224 : 19 , 224:24 , 225 :7, 232 :21 , 232 :22 , 232 :24 , 278 : 16 , 279:2, 291 : 19 , 291 :25, 292 :1, 292 :6, 292 : 16 , 297 :7, 297 :9, 297 : 17 , 301 : 16 , 301 : 18 , 301 :20 , 301 :23 **guys** [2] - 198 :8, 248 : 16 

## H

**H-A-G-L-E-R** [1] - 212 : 11 **H-E-N-D-E-R-S-O-N** [1] - 193: 13 **HAGLER** [4] - 177 :22 , 212 :5, 212 : 11 , 212 : 13 **Hagler** [2] - 212 : 11 , 214 : 13 **hair** [2] - 218 : 10 , 218 : 11 **half** [1] - 215:7 **hall** [1] - 268 : 10 **hand** [7] - 190 : 14 , 193 :2, 225 :5, 226 : 11 , 233 : 14 , 247: 11 , 309 :24 **handed** [1] - 288 :3 **handful** [1] - 233 : 16 **handle** [2] - 191 : 19 , 191 :21 **handling** [1] - 199: 14 **hands** [1] - 216 :23 **happy** [5] - 183: 13 , 216 : 16 , 299:9, 310:7 **hard** [8] - 202 : 10 , 246 : 19 , 267:1, 268 : 12 , 283:24 , 294 : 13 , 303: 11 **hard -** **working** [1] - 268 : 12 **hardly** [1] - 254 : 10 **hardship** [1] - 250 :21 **Harold** [1] - 175:4 **hate** [1] - 215 : 17 **hazard** [2] - 199 :6, 199 :21 **hazards** [1] - 200:24 **HAZE** [1] - 174 :5 **Haze** [3] - 207:20 , 263 : 10 , 264: 18 **haze** [56] - 181 :5, 184 :25, 193:24 , 199 :2, 199 :5, 201 :7, 201 : 14 , 205:20 , 205 :23 , 206: 10 , 208 : 14 , 208: 19 , 212 : 15, 213:8, 213 : 12 , 218: 14 , 225 : 14 , 229:3, 229:6, 229 : 14 , 230:3, 230 : 17 , 231 :5, 231 : 10 , 233: 13 , 235 :5, 235 :9, 235 :24 , 236 :5, 236 : 11 , 236 :24 , 237:22 , 246 :20 , 254:7, 254 : 11 , 259: 13 , 264 : 15, 272 :21 , 274 :5, 274 :6, 274 : 10 , 274 : 17 , 274:20 , 276 : 14 , 276: 16 , 277 :3, 284 :3, 286 :24 , 286 :25, 287:5, 290:6, 298 :5, 298 :20 , 302 :23 **head** [1] - 240 :4 **Health** [5] - 180 :7, 199 : 18 , 199:23 , 288 :5, 288 : 14 **health** [54] - 194: 12, 196 : 19 , 198: 13 , 199 :6, 199 :8, 199 :21 , 200 :2, 201 : 11 , 203 : 11 , 206: 11 , 208 :1, 209 : 11 , 209 : 15, 210: 12 , 213 :22 , 220:4, 235 : 18 , 236:2, 236:7, 236 : 12 , 236: 13 , 236 : 17 , 237:4, 237:8, 246 : 13 , 246:20 , 248 : 18 , 261 :3, 263 :25, 264:1, 264:4, 264 :5, 264 :6, 264 : 11 , 265 : 11 , 266:1, 266:3, 266 : 15, 269: 16 , 292 :25, 293:3, 301 :6, 302 :3, 302 : 13 , 307:7, 307 :9, 307 : 11 , 307 : 12 , 307: 16 , 309 :1, 309 :6, 309 :7, 311 :3, 311 : 12 **health -** **based** [1] - 194 : 12 **healthy** [1] - 309 : 16 **hear** [ 15] - 181 :9, 192 :8, 195 :2, 197 : 12 , 198 :8, 201 : 19 , 228 : 17 , 262 : 11 , 270 :6, 289 :5, 290 : 11 , 294 : 10 , 300:22 , 310 :8, 311 :22 **heard** [13] - 185 :7, 185 :8, 191 :3, 214 : 16 , 219 :22 , 223: 15, 230 :6, 235 : 18 , 271 :20 , 302 : 11 , 304 :1, 310 : 14 , 312 : 11 **hearing** [ 19] - 174 : 17 , 181 :4, 183:7, 202 :8, 202 : 10 , 205 :21 , 218:23 , 219 :7, 240 : 11 , 244 : 16 , 284:1, 289 : 16 , 290: 14 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 11

294 : 10 , 310: 18 , 310 : 19 , 311 :22 , 312 :21 **Hearing** [20] - 175:2, 181 :2, 182 : 15, 183:2, 216 :9, 217 :25, 218 :21 , 233:24 , 234 : 17 , 239:4, 269 : 13 , 269:24 , 271 :1, 288 :9, 288 : 17 , 288 :20 , 290: 12 , 294 :2, 298 : 13 , 300:6 **hearings** [1] - 302 : 19 **heart** [1] - 209 : 13 **heavily** [1] - 238 : 16 **heavy** [1] - 272 :2 **held** [1] - 239 :24 **help** [7] - 211 :2, 214 :8, 219 : 16 , 270 : 16 , 283:23 , 284 :20 , 311 : 12 **helped** [1] - 308: 13 **helpful** [5] - 202 : 12 , 270 : 15, 275:21 , 284 :24 , 286: 12 **helping** [1] - 248: 24 **Henderson** [6] - 190 :1, 190 : 10 , 192 :23 , 193: 10 , 197 : 10 , 214:6 **HENDERSON** [7] - 177 : 10 , 193:1, 193:4, 193 : 10 , 193: 13 , 193 : 16 , 193: 18 **herd** [1] - 253 :3 **hereby** [1] - 313 :7 **hereto** [1] - 313: 16 **Hesperus** [2] - 252 :22 , 252 :25 **hi** [2] - 258:7, 265:5 **High** [2] - 184:24, 185 :2 **high** [3] - 185 :23, 245 :21 , 252 :5 **high -** **paying** [1] - 185 :23 **high -** **wage** [1] - 245 :21 **higher** [1] - 238: 11 **highlight** [1] - 263: 12 **hired** [1] - 239:22 **historically** [1] - 252 :24 **history** [5] - 221 : 11 , 227 :8, 229 :3, 243 : 18 , 298 : 19 **hoc** [1] - 197:25 **hold** [1] - 228 :9 **Holy** [1] - 232 :21 **home** [4] - 184 :5,254 : 20 , 259: 20 , 265 :7 **homes** [2] - 260 :8, 260 : 12 **honest** [1] - 206 :21 **hope** [7] - 196 :7, 216 : 14 , 219: 16 , 267 :1, 294 : 17 , 296 : 21 , 298: 17 **hopefully** [2] - 299 : 13 , 299: 16 **hospice** [1] - 191 :9 **hospital** [2] - 199:24, 209 : 13 **host** [1] - 216: 16 **hour** [2] - 174 :20 , 276 : 12 **huge** [2] - 188 :24 , 211 : 19 **hum** [1] - 283: 20 **human** [2] - 186 : 10 , 239 : 24 **humidity** [1] - 277 : 18 **hundred** [2] - 249 : 22 , 253: 23 **hundreds** [1] - 261 :8 **husband** [1] - 276:20 **hybrid** [1] - 304 : 10 

## I

**Idaho** [1] - 233 : 15 **idea** [3] - 228 : 16 , 264 :8, 275 : 10 **identified** [3] - 193 : 21 , 199: 10 , 220 : 21 **ignored** [1] - 199 : 14 **illnesses** [1] - 200: 14 **illustrate** [3] - 283 : 23 , 284: 20 , 294 : 24 **illustrated** [1] - 294 : 24 **illustration** [2] - 285 :4, 286 : 10 **illustrations** [1] - 221 : 13 **imaginary** [1] - 300 : 10 **imagined** [1] - 305 :9 **impact** [21 ] - 194 : 17, 194 : 21 , 194: 25, 195 :3, 195 : 19 , 196:5, 196 : 14 , 206: 10 , 250 :2, 250 :8, 263 :22 , 266 : 17 , 266: 19 , 273 : 13 , 275: 11 , 299 : 17 , 299: 25, 301 :7, 302 : 16 , 302 :25 **impacted** [1] - 299 :23 **impacting** [1] - 248 : 12 **Impacts** [2] - 180:8, 288 : 15 **impacts** [19] - 197 :7, 209 : 11 , 220:4, 226:1, 237 :4, 241 :25, 250 : 18 , 250:25, 262 :8, 262 : 10 , 262 :25, 263:3, 264 : 11 , 266: 13 , 266 : 15, 291 : 10 , 294 :23 , 295:8, 295:9 **impairment** [2] - 221 :1, 291 :21 **imperceptible** [1] - 295 : 19 **implement** [3] - 228 :3, 230 :21 , 301 :25 **implementation** [7] - 193 :24 , 194:5, 194:7, 222 : 10 , 250:24 , 301 :21 , 308:9 **Implementation** [22]

- 181 :5, 195 : 12 , 205 :24 , 207:21 , 208 : 13 , 208: 18 , 214 :8, 250 :20 , 251 :1, 256 :5, 257 :25, 259 : 13 , 264: 15, 272 :20 , 274: 11 , 274 : 14 , 290:6, 290 :25, 296:1, 298:6, 303 :5, 310 :20 **IMPLEMENTATION** [1] - 174:4 **implemented** [2] - 282 :4, 299 : 12 **implementing** [1] - 227 : 10 **implications** [1] - 262 :4 **importance** [1] - 295 :3 **important** [24] - 184 :1, 188 : 15, 189 : 14 , 189: 16 , 189 : 17 , 191 :22 , 194 : 15, 204: 17 , 216 : 18 , 221 :2, 227:9, 253 : 17 , 272 :3, 290 : 18 , 294:7, 294 : 11 , 295: 14 , 295 :22 , 297:6, 309:4, 309 : 15, 309:21 , 310 : 17 , 310:21 **impose** [1] - 213:5 **impress** [1] - 272 : 14 **impressed** [2] - 308 : 11 , 312 :2 **improve** [3] - 197 :1, 208 :1, 303 : 15 **improved** [2] - 189 :9, 305 :7 **IMPROVEMENT** [1] - 174 :1 **improvement** [13] - 188 :24 , 224:6, 224 :22 , 224:23 , 236 : 12 , 282 : 17 , 291 : 12 , 292 : 14 , 292 : 15, 295: 19 , 296 :9, 296 : 10 , 305: 11 **Improvement** [11 ] - 174 : 18 , 175:6, 181 :3, 183 :23 , 195: 11 , 197 :5, 201 : 12 , 207 : 18 , 212 :20 , 256 :5, 301 :22 **improvements** [8] - 188 : 12 , 188:20 , 189 :1, 237 : 13 , 251 :1, 279 : 13 , 279: 19 , 309 :1 **improves** [1] - 253 :9 **improving** [1] - 216 :2 **IN** [1] - 174 :4 **inappropriate** [1] - 236 : 10 **include** [2] - 194:24, 280 :4 **included** [2] - 195 :2, 281 : 13 **includes** [1] - 243 :9 **including** [7] - 209 :2, 218 : 19 , 261 :3, 261 : 16 , 262 : 16 , 296 :25, 302 :4 **inclusive** [1] - 278 : 13 **income** [6] - 208:4, 243 :1, 243 :8, 260 :24 , 309 :8 **incorporated** [1] - 230 :7 **increase** [4] - 195 : 17 , 209:7, 209 :20 , 216:1 **increased** [1] - 210 :2 **increases** [1] - 192 : 12 **incurred** [1] - 209:20 **independent** [1] - 261 :5 **independently** [1] - 285 :20 **Indian** [2] - 199 : 14 , 199 :23 **indicated** [1] - 242 :4 **indication** [2] - 299 : 17 , 299:25 **indicator** [1] - 194 : 13 **indigenous** [1] - 253 :20 **indirect** [2] - 260 :25, 261 :1 **individual** [2] - 186 : 10 , 218: 18 **industrial** [2] - 218 : 12 , 218: 15 **industries** [1] - 257:9 **industry** [2] - 242 :3, 242 :8 **inevitably** [1] - 216:1 **informal** [1] - 228 :2 **information** [ 10] - 183 : 10 , 192 :7, 209:6, 212 :23 , 247:2, 267:6, 270 : 16 , 294:22 , 304 :2, 308 :3 **informed** [2] - 224 :3, 265 : 12 **infrastructure** [1] - 204 :9 **initial** [2] - 183:8, 183 :22 **initiatives** [1] - 201 :1 **injure** [1] - 198: 12 **injury** [1] - 302 :2 **insignificant** [6] - 188 : 13 , 188: 17 , 188 : 18 , 189:5, 211 :20 , 296: 12 **install** [1] - 207:22 **installation** [3] - 207 :25, 209:8, 263:8 **installed** [3] - 210 :9, 224 : 12 , 237: 12 **instance** [2] - 211 : 12 , 234:5 **instead** [3] - 220:8, 266 :7, 266 : 12 **institute** [1] - 307 :22 **instituting** [1] - 306 :22 **insufficient** [1] - 206 :4 **integrates** [1] - 225 : 14 **intend** [1] - 194 :21 **intended** [3] - 220 : 11 , 225: 10 , 226 :7 **intent** [3] - 227 : 11 , 238 : 15, 289:2 **intention** [1] - 248 :23 **intentions** [1] - 206:5 **interchange** [2] - 298 :25, 299: 13 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 12

**interest** [5] - 198 :1, 212 :24 , 299:2, 302 :4 **interested** [3] - 183 :4, 259 : 19 , 313: 17 **interests** [5] - 198 : 10 , 198: 11 , 262 :5, 265 : 19 , 298:4 **interference** [1] - 302 :3 **interject** [1] - 263 : 12 **international** [1] - 200 :23 **International** [4] - 240 :3, 242 : 18 , 249 :20 , 256:21 **internationally** [1] - 267 : 15 **interpretation** [3] - 221 :7, 221 :8, 291 :22 **interstate** [4] - 272 :22 , 274:7, 274 :21 , 274:24 **introduce** [1] - 240 :20 **intuitiv e**  [1] - 277:6 **invalidate** [1] - 311 : 11 **invasion** [1] - 198 :3 **invest** [1] - 304 : 11 **invested** [3] - 203 : 19 , 205: 19 , 306 : 16 **investment** [9] - 243 :20 , 294:25, 304 :6, 305 :6, 305 : 13 , 305 : 14 , 306: 18 , 306 : 19 **invitation** [1] - 214 : 15 **involved** [5] - 218:9, 274 :1, 302 :8, 302 : 10 , 312 :6 **involvement** [2] - 227 : 12 , 296: 15 **issue** [23] - 189 :2, 193 :23 , 199: 11 , 199 :22 , 204:4, 205 :22 , 206: 19 , 246 :21 , 248: 16 , 248 : 18 , 248: 19 , 248 :22 , 274:2, 277:4, 290 :20 , 290:22 , 299 :7, 301 :3, 301 :4, 301 :5, 301 :7, 301 :8, 301 : 10 **issued** [2] - 228:2, 272 :6 **issues** [13] - 188 : 13 , 188 : 15, 188: 17 , 188 :25, 205: 16 ,206 : 15, 206: 22 ,

218 :4, 246 :8, 262 : 14 , 270 :4, 294 : 21 , 310: 17 **IT** [1] - 174: 16 **item** [1] - 248 : 13 **items** [3] - 188 :24 , 281 : 23 , 306:1 **itself** [1] - 230 : 14 

## J

**James** [3] - 187:4, 193 : 10 , 210: 24 **JAMES** [6] - 175 :8, 177 : 10 , 177: 20 , 193 :4, 210 : 18 , 210:24 **janitor** [1] - 239:23 **Japan** [1] - 255 :9 **JD** [1] - 218:6 **JEFFREY** [1] - 175:9 **jeopardized** [1] - 201 : 11 **Jim** [1] - 190 :1 **job** [9] - 185: 19 , 246 : 12 , 246: 13 , 252 :3, 252 : 13 , 256 : 18 , 257: 10 , 308 :5, 308 : 23 **jobs** [33] - 185 :21 , 185 : 22 , 185: 23 , 186 : 25, 194: 19 , 196 :8, 214 :8, 245 :21 , 246 : 17 , 246: 18 , 252 :8, 252 : 16 , 253:9, 253 : 15, 253: 16 , 254 : 21 , 254: 23 , 256 : 20 , 257: 19 , 261 :8, 265 : 21 , 265 : 22 , 265: 23 , 266 :9, 267 :4, 267 :7, 267 :8, 267 : 14 , 267 : 18 , 268: 16 , 268 : 19 , 290: 24 , 301 :7 **Joe** [2] - 247 :9, 247 : 18 **JOE** [2] - 178 : 14 , 247 : 12 **JOHN** [5] - 175:8, 178 :4, 216 : 24 , 217:2, 217 :4 **John** [4] - 180 :5, 216 : 21 , 217:2, 218:1 **joining** [1] - 182 :21 **joins** [1] - 198 : 14 **joke** [1] - 201 :1 **Joseph** [1] - 190:21 **JOSEPH** [2] - 177 :8, 190 : 15 **JOSH** [2] - 178 : 16 , 249 : 10 **Josh** [1] - 249 : 16 **Journal** [1] - 199 : 17 **Juan** [ 111 ] - 174 : 18 , 176 :8, 180 :8, 182 : 17 , 182 :25, 185: 12 , 185 : 18 , 185:24 , 188 :20 , 190:23 , 193 :22 , 196: 16 , 196 : 17 , 196:20 , 196 :21 , 197: 12 , 199 :8, 201 : 19 , 205 : 14 , 206:6, 206:8, 206 : 13 , 206: 17 , 206 : 19 , 206:22 , 207 :22 , 208:1, 208:6, 208 :7, 208 :23 , 209 : 11 , 209:22 , 210 :9, 212 : 15, 213:1, 213 : 14 , 213: 15, 213 : 19 , 213:20 , 214 :2, 214 : 16 , 216:7, 216 : 11 , 216: 13 , 216 : 15, 216: 19 , 217 : 14 , 219: 13 , 219 : 14 , 226:4, 226 : 12 , 227: 17 , 235 :4, 235 : 12 , 241 :1, 241 :4, 241 :9, 241 : 13 , 241 : 15, 241 :21 , 241 :23 , 242 :1, 242 : 11 , 242 : 15, 242 :20 , 243:4, 243:6, 243 : 15, 243: 18 , 244 : 16 , 245: 13 , 245 : 15, 245: 17 , 245 :23 , 247:25, 249 :24 , 250:9, 252 : 15, 261 :6, 261 :7, 261 : 10 , 261 : 11 , 261 : 16 , 262 :3, 262 :6, 262 : 10 , 262 : 15, 263 :7, 263 : 10 , 263 : 19 , 263:22 , 264 :3, 267 : 14 , 268 :20 , 268:21 , 269 :2, 273 :3, 273 : 19 , 276 : 11 , 278:1, 283:6, 285 :6, 288 : 15, 289:6, 294 : 16 , 296:3, 296:7, 297 :4, 297 : 19 , 298: 16 **JUAN** [1] - 180 :3 **Juan 's**  [1] - 283: 12 **judge** [1] - 295 :25 **July** [3] - 199 :9, 206 :20 , 243: 19 **jump** [1] - 191 :6 **June** [2] - 174 : 16 , 180 : 10 **jurisdiction** [3] - 209 :4, 259 : 15, 262 :7 **jurisdictional** [1] - 205 : 16 **justice** [3] - 200: 10 , 208 :3, 210 : 11 **juxtapose** [1] - 221 :20 

## K

**Kansas** [1] - 277: 12 **Kathy** [1] - 181 : 18 **keep** [9] - 186 :25, 206 :6, 246 :24 , 253:5, 253 :6, 303 : 12 , 306 :20 , 309: 15 **keeping** [3] - 221 :3, 230 : 16 , 298:22 **keeps** [2] - 192 : 14, 305 :22 **kind** [ 19] - 229:25, 232 :6, 232 : 10 , 235 :25, 238: 17 , 246 : 19 , 246:22 , 265 : 18 , 266:25, 272 : 12 , 279:24 , 281 :24 , 286:9, 292 : 10 , 304: 11 , 305 : 11 , 309: 19 , 310 :2 **kinds** [1] - 310 : 16 **Kirtland** [1] - 252 :3 **kitchen** [1] - 260:9 **knowledge** [3] - 200 :2, 212 :25, 223:2 **known** [2] - 220 :23 , 267 : 15 **Kyle** [1] - 278 :20 **KYLE** [2] - 179 :6, 276 :2 

## L

**LA** [1] - 254 : 13 **labor** [1] - 239:25 **laborers** [2] - 268 :9, 268 : 12 **lack** [1] - 218 : 11 **lacks** [1] - 305:25 **ladies** [3] - 249: 19, 251 :5, 251 : 18 **laid** [1] - 311 : 15 **land** [5] - 241 :5, 241 :6, 252 :24 , 253 :21 , 253:22 **lands** [2] - 198 :5, 205 : 18 **large** [2] - 198:4, 218 : 15 **larger** [3] - 199 :2, 209 : 19 , 292 : 15 **largest** [3] - 196 :21 , 242 : 19 , 274: 16 **last** [ 11 ] - 184 :4, 193 : 12 , 244:20 , 246 : 17 , 247:23 , 252 :1, 258 :5, 269 : 11 , 270 : 10 , 271 :20 , 300 : 15 **latest** [2] - 257 :3, 257 :5 **latitude** [1] - 231 : 11 **latter** [1] - 300 :24 **Law** [2] - 176 :4, 176 : 16 **law** [8] - 200 :8, 200 :23 , 201 :5, 223:5, 231 :3, 291 : 13 , 299:5 **lawful** [1] - 229: 16 **laws** [1] - 201 :5 **lawyer** [2] - 218:2, 277 :1 **lead** [1] - 245 : 18 **leaders** [1] - 216 : 17 **League** [3] - 207: 13, 207 : 17 , 210:6 **league** [1] - 207: 16 **learned** [1] - 300 : 15 **least** [7] - 203 : 13 , 213 : 16 , 216:2, 232 : 15, 270: 19 , 296 : 17 , 306:22 **leave** [1] - 247:1 **left** [1] - 222 :3 **legacy** [1] - 243 : 14 **legal** [3] - 238 :4, 295 :24 , 296:5 **Legal** [1] - 176 :9 **legitimately** [1] - 300 :21 **less** [ 14] - 186 : 18, 195 :9, 202 : 10 , 208 : 14 , 213:4, 213 : 11 , 231 :20 , 232 : 12 , 232 : 16 , 282 : 11 , 286:4, 295 : 11 , 304:4, 308: 17 **lessen** [1] - 250 : 16 **letter** [4] - 187 :5, 209 : 11 , 245:24 , 246 :3 **letting** [1] - 226 : 14 **level** [8] - 208 :5, 208 :20 , 282 :20 , 282 :21 , 307: 11 , 309 :8 **levels** [1] - 226:1 **License** [1] - 313 :20 **licensed** [1] - 218 :2 **life** [8] - 186 : 12, 186 : 13 , 194: 18 , 202 : 15, 237: 11 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 13

253 : 10 , 253: 11 , 291 :9 **lifelong** [1] - 266:6 **light** [1] - 222 :21 **lighting** [1] - 191 : 12 **lights** [3] - 185 : 17 , 186 :4, 186 : 18 **likely** [3] - 200 : 16 , 200 : 19 , 271 :21 **limit** [4] - 233 :3, 233 :4, 295 :24 **limitations** [1] - 183 :6 **limits** [6] - 184 : 16 , 194 : 12 , 195:7, 232 :9, 232 : 11 , 232 : 19 **line** [6] - 191 : 11 , 192 : 17 , 228: 15, 232 :20 , 240:1, 260:5 **list** [2] - 296 : 17, 308 : 12 **listens** [1] - 199:4 **live** [ 10] - 186:21 , 200 :4, 205 : 12 , 208:4, 246 :23 , 252 :9, 253 :23 , 256:7, 260:2 **liveable** [1] - 186 : 12 **lived** [1] - 212 : 18 **livelihood** [1] - 250 :23 **living** [5] - 185 : 12 , 238 :23 , 257:1, 260:6, 268 : 19 **local** [ 17] - 195 : 19 , 197 :6, 219 : 18 , 222 :21 , 222 :25, 223 :3, 225 :9, 242 : 16 , 242 :24 , 243:7, 250 : 16 , 250:23 , 251 :22 , 252 : 19 , 257 : 12 , 303: 13 **Local** [4] - 240 :3, 242 : 18 , 249:21 , 256 :21 **locally** [1] - 303 : 13 **located** [5] - 208:8, 241 :7, 260 :21 , 261 : 14 , 262 :7 **location** [2] - 184:1, 196 :1 **locator** [1] - 195 : 25 **logical** [1] - 229 : 13 **long -** **term** [4] - 202 : 16 , 203: 14 , 204 :3, 210 :1 **look** [28] - 186: 14 , 186 :24 , 194: 16 , 196 :1, 211 :7, 211 : 11 , 211 :21 , 221 : 11 , 221 : 18 , 237:22 , 248 :23 , 250:6,257 : 19 , 268: 15,

269 :7, 273 :4, 273 :23 , 278 :1, 280 :1, 280 : 17 , 283 :5, 284 :5, 284 : 18 , 285 : 20 , 288:3, 295:5, 296 : 22 , 297:7 **looked** [ 10] - 273 :21 , 276 : 13 , 277: 13 , 279 : 16 , 281 : 23 , 282 :9, 282 : 16 , 282 : 18 , 284:9, 305:5 **looking** [ 12] - 195 : 23 , 195: 24 , 227 :9, 237 : 18 , 267:2, 273 : 19 , 276: 22 , 276 : 24 , 279: 20 , 283 : 24 , 287: 15, 292 : 11 **looks** [4] - 215 : 19 , 255 :6, 278 :8, 300 : 18 **lose** [1] - 309 :1 **loss** [5] - 246 : 18 , 263 : 17 , 265: 21 , 267 :4, 301 :7 **lost** [4] - 196:8, 246 : 17 , 266:9, 267:8 **loud** [1] - 183 : 19 **loudly** [1] - 197:22 **LOUIS** [1] - 176 : 15 **Louis** [1] - 182 : 11 **LOUISE** [2] - 178 :24 , 265 :1 **Louise** [1] - 258:20 **love** [3] - 185 : 12 , 304 :9, 305 :3 **low** [2] - 208 :4, 297 : 18 **lower** [1] - 208 :21 **lowered** [1] - 213 :2 **lrose @** **montand .**  **com** [1] - 176: 18 **Lucas** [3] - 275 :23 , 275 : 25, 287: 24 **LUCAS** [29] - 179:6, 276 :2, 277 :6, 277 : 11 , 278 :3, 278 : 13 , 278 : 16 , 278: 25, 279 : 12 , 280:4, 280:7, 280 :9, 281 :1, 281 : 10 , 282 :6, 282 : 16 , 282 : 23 , 283:9, 283 : 12 , 283: 15, 283 : 18 , 283: 21 , 283 : 23 , 284: 24 , 286 :4, 286 :7, 287 :2, 287 :7, 287 : 13 **Lucinda** [4] - 251 :8, 251 : 15, 251 : 21 , 299 : 22 **LUCINDA** [3] - 178 : 18 , 251 :9, 251 : 15 **Lucy** [1] - 256 :3 **LUIS** [1] - 258 : 12 **Lujan** [2] - 248 :22 , 249 :2 **Lung** [1] - 250: 10 

## M

**M-C-D-A-N-I-E-L** [1] - 245 :8 **M-E- Y** **-E-R** [1] - 214 :24 **ma '** **am** [6] - 189 :24 , 197 : 14 , 207:2, 227 :23 , 237:1, 244:21 **machine** [1] - 313 : 10 **machinery** [2] - 186 : 14 , 280: 11 **Madam** [22] - 182 : 15, 183 :2, 211 :1, 216 :9, 216 : 10 , 217:25, 218 :21 , 233:24 , 234 : 17 , 239:4, 269 : 13 , 269:24 , 271 :1, 288 :9, 288 : 17 , 290 : 12 , 294:2, 294:3, 298 : 13 , 300:6, 312 :22 **main** [3] - 211 :6, 248 : 11 , 266:25 **maintain** [2] - 257:1 **major** [ 11 ] - 196 : 18 , 208 : 19 , 208:24 , 211 :21 , 211 :22 , 213 :21 , 214:5, 243 : 15, 248:7, 261 :22 , 264: 11 **majority** [2] - 308 : 16 , 308 : 17 **makers** [1] - 245 :22 **man** [1] - 253 :5 **manager** [4] - 176 :9, 190 :24 , 239:24 , 259 :6 **managers** [1] - 245 :22 **mandate** [2] - 222 :6, 230 :3 **mandated** [2] - 222 : 13 , 223: 16 **manifestation** [1] - 201 :4 **manner** [1] - 226 :7 **Manual** [1] - 238: 17 **manual** [1] - 238: 19 **map** [1] - 273 :21 **Margaret** [1] - 245:7 **MARGARET** [3] - 178 : 12 , 245:1, 245:8 **marginal** [4] - 202 :22 , 203:9, 306:3, 308 :25 **mark** [1] - 236:20 **market** [1] - 260 :22 **Marquette** [1] - 176 :5 **married** [1] - 238: 16 **mars** [1] - 198:24 **matched** [1] - 189: 12 **materials** [2] - 196 :22 , 214:3 **maternal** [1] - 240 :22 **MATTER** [1] - 174 :4 **matter** [ 13] - 174 : 17 , 181 :4, 181 :7, 181 : 12 , 183 :8, 213 :4, 246 :21 , 266 :3, 270 :2, 272 :23 , 277 :22 , 279:1, 279: 17 **matters** [6] - 218:5, 218 :9, 218 : 18 , 224:4, 225 :25, 241 : 18 **maximum** [2] - 220 : 17 , 304:8 **mayor** [1] - 192 :6 **mayors** [1] - 245 :22 **MC** [3] - 178: 12, 245 :1, 245 : 10 **McDaniel** [1] - 245 :7 **MD** [1] - 245:7 **mean** [8] - 224 :22 , 227 : 18 , 229:4, 231 :3, 231 :22 , 237:2, 248:7, 309 :24 **meaningful** [3] - 221 : 10 , 223:24 , 275 : 11 **means** [3] - 220: 17 , 220 : 19 , 309:23 **measured** [2] - 211 :9, 225 :6 **measures** [3] - 222 :1, 222 :3, 222 :4 **Medical** [1] - 200 :20 **meet** [8] - 194 :6, 194 :8, 205 :25, 264 : 17 , 296:2, 296:3, 296 :4, 305 : 12 **meeting** [2] - 190:2, 236 :4 **meetings** [2] - 184 :1, 305 :20 **meets** [1] - 293 :7 **megawatts** [1] - 232 :23 **member** [ 14] - 212 :20 , 231 : 16 , 238 :5, 240 :2, 246 :5, 249 :20 , 252 :21 , 256 :7, 256 :20 , 280 :23 , 288:24 , 301 : 11 , 301 : 15, 303 : 17 **Member** [6] - 227 :5, 275 : 14 , 276:7, 287:3, 292 :9, 309 :5 **members** [22] - 189 :25, 198:6, 211 :1, 216 : 10 , 216: 17 , 218 :1, 244 : 10 , 245 : 10 , 246:1, 249 :24 , 261 : 12 , 262 : 17 , 268: 11 , 268 :23 , 269:3, 272 :3, 290 : 13 , 294:3, 298 : 14 , 301 :1, 303:2 **memoranda** [1] - 228 :2 **memorialize** [1] - 293 :22 **mention** [2] - 196 :4, 261 :21 **mentioned** [4] - 222 : 12 , 233: 15, 254 :25, 287:7 **mercury** [2] - 189 : 11 , 213 :3 **Mesa** [4] - 198: 19 , 263 : 17 , 284: 12 , 284 : 13 **met** [2] - 233:3, 311 : 14 **meteorological** [4] - 278 :9, 280 : 14 , 281 : 10 , 287:9 **method** [1] - 306 : 12 **methodology** [6] - 224 :9, 225 :6, 278 :7, 278 : 17 , 281 :7, 292 :2 **methods** [1] - 302 :9 **metric** [1] - 225:3 **MEXICO** [3] - 174 :1, 180 :6, 313 :1 **Mexico** [74] - 174 : 19 , 175 :3, 175 :5, 175 :6, 175 : 13 , 175: 16 , 175 : 18 , 175:20 , 176 :2, 176 :6, 176 : 11 , 176 : 17 , 180: 10 , 182 :4, 182 :8, 185 :25, 194 :1, 195 : 12 , 196:3, 199 :22 , 207: 19 , 207 :20 , 208:7, 209:2, 209 :7, 210 :7, 210 : 11 , 212 :20 , 212 :21 , 216 : 14 , 224:7, 225 :20 , 226:2, 227 :21 , 230:1, 231 :4, 231 : 11 , 240:5, 240 : 18 , 241 :2, 241 :6, 241 : 11 , 241 : 14 , 241 :22 , 242 :1, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 14

242 : 10 , 242 :23 , 243 : 10 , 243: 11 , 248 :25, 249:3, 250 :24 , 252 : 10 , 253 : 18 , 256: 14 , 259 : 13 , 259: 15, 259 : 16 , 259:23 , 264 :7, 265 :9, 275 :7, 294 : 13 , 295: 10 , 295 : 12 , 295: 15, 297 :25, 298:3, 298:8, 303 :7, 306 : 10 , 311 :8, 311 : 17 **Mexico 's**  [7] - 208 : 12 , 223:25, 251 : 19 , 259: 12 , 264 : 14 , 310: 11 , 310 :25 **MEYER** [4] - 177: 24 , 214 : 18 , 214:24 , 215 :1 **Meyer** [2] - 214 :24 , 216 :5 **MI CHAEL**  [1] - 175:8 **microphone** [1] - 202 :9 **middle** [1] - 304: 10 **might** [9] - 186 : 17, 228 : 16 , 232 : 15, 273 : 10 , 275: 18 , 282 : 13 , 284:20 , 284 :24 , 286: 10 **Mi ke**  [2] - 205 :7, 205 : 12 **MI KE**  [2] - 177: 16, 205 :1 **miles** [2] - 259:22 , 276 : 12 **MI LLER**  [1] - 176 :4 **million** [32] - 188 : 20 , 191 : 16 , 194:3, 196 :22 , 196:23 , 209 : 16 , 213: 16 , 213 : 17 , 214:2, 214:3, 242 : 13 , 242 :25, 243 :2, 243 :6, 243 :8, 243 :9, 243 : 10 , 243 : 17 , 281 : 15, 282 : 13 , 285:9, 292 : 14 , 292 : 15, 295 : 18 , 296:8, 303 : 15, 304:5, 305 : 14 , 306: 16 **millions** [1] - 213 : 25 **mind** [5] - 216 :2, 230 : 16 , 232 :25, 266 :9, 272 :2 **minds** [1] - 230 : 13 **Mi ne**  [ 10] - 196: 17, 213 :20 , 241 :4, 241 :7, 241 :9, 242 : 11 , 243:4,243 :6, 261 :7, 261 : 12 **mine** [7] - 187 :3, 213 : 23 , 241 :5, 241 :7, 261 :7, 263 : 17 , 299:24 **miner** [1] - 249:21 **miners** [2] - 242 : 17 , 249 : 22 **mines** [4] - 185 :22 , 243 :3, 250 :4, 261 : 19 **minimize** [3] - 188 : 16 , 203: 10 , 295 :2 **minimizing** [1] - 195 : 14 **mining** [1] - 218 : 12 **minor** [2] - 211 :9, 261 : 22 **minute** [1] - 195 :25 **minutes** [5] - 190:4, 245 : 12 , 246:5, 270 : 19 , 270: 21 **misleading** [1] - 229 : 25 **misperception** [1] - 220 : 16 **missed** [1] - 231 :5 **mission** [1] - 245 : 18 **mistake** [1] - 225 : 16 **mistaken** [2] - 265 : 16 , 282 : 13 **misunderstanding** [1] - 274:5 **model** [9] - 264 :9, 279 :4, 279 : 24 , 279 : 25, 280:2, 280 : 13 , 280: 17 , 281 :2, 282 :3 **modeled** [3] - 281 : 21 , 281 : 22 **modeling** [2] - 278 :7, 312 :4 **modern** [3] - 186: 11 , 186 : 13 , 307: 10 **Mohave** [2] - 263: 13, 263 : 16 **moisture** [3] - 277 : 16 , 277: 17 , 279 : 17 **mom** [1] - 240: 19 **moment** [2] - 275 :22 , 289 : 17 **money** [ 11 ] - 188 : 16 , 189 :6, 189 :9, 191 : 17 , 202 : 18 , 211 : 19 , 224 : 22 , 238: 21 , 304 : 12 , 308: 23 , 309 :1 **monitoring** [1] - 211 : 10 **MONTGOMERY** [1] - 176 : 15 **month** [1] - 254:5 **monthly** [1] - 191 :5 **months** [1] - 284 :2 **Monument** [1] - 198 : 19 **monuments** [1] - 209 :23 **moral** [5] - 301 :3, 301 :4, 301 :5, 301 :6, 301 : 10 **morning** [16] - 181 :1, 181 :7, 182 : 15, 183:4, 187 : 18 , 189:23 , 189 :24 , 190: 12 , 193 :1, 193 : 19 , 197 :24 , 212 : 13 , 216 :9, 251 : 18 , 298 : 17 , 310:8 **MORROW** [3] - 175 :9, 311 : 18 , 312 : 13 **most** [17] - 181 :8, 184 : 17 , 185: 18 , 186 :4, 194 :8, 204 :20 , 205 :24 , 210:8, 221 :6, 223 :2, 235 :25, 238 : 18 , 253: 16 , 260 : 14 , 268: 11 , 299 :23 , 308: 15 **mother** [1] - 255: 13 **Mother** [6] - 200:22, 200 :23 , 201 :2, 201 :4, 201 :7, 201 : 10 **motion** [1] - 312 : 12 **mountain** [1] - 305:5 **Mountain** [2] - 198 : 19 , 252 :22 **mountains** [2] - 252 :24 , 254:4 **move** [9] - 240 :6, 265 :6, 266 : 17 , 289 :22 , 300: 16 , 303 :21 , 312 : 13 , 312 :20 **moved** [1] - 309 :3 **moving** [1] - 265 : 11 **MOYA** [4] - 179 :4, 268 :1, 268 :7, 269 :6 **Moya** [2] - 268:7, 269 :5 **MR** [ 151 ] - 182 :2, 182 :7, 182 : 11 , 182 : 15, 183:2, 183 : 18 , 184: 14 , 187 : 14 , 188:1, 188:4, 190 : 12 , 190:21 , 192 :23 , 193:1, 193 : 10 , 193: 13 , 193 : 16 , 193: 18 , 205 :7, 205 : 10 , 210 :24 , 212 : 11 , 212 : 13 , 214:24 , 215 :1, 216 :9, 217 :2, 217 :8, 218 :21 , 219:1, 219 :4, 219 : 10 , 226 : 16 , 226:21 , 226 :23 , 226:25, 227 :23 , 228:25, 229 :2, 229 :22 , 231 :1, 231 : 17 , 231 :21 , 232 :1, 232 :4, 232 : 18 , 233 :5, 233 : 11 , 233 :23 , 234:2, 234 : 14 , 234: 17 , 234 : 19 , 234:22 , 235 : 13 , 235: 17 , 235 :24 , 236:21 , 237 :1, 237 :7, 237 :9, 237 : 15, 238:1, 238:6, 238 : 14 , 239:4, 239 : 10 , 240:6, 240 : 14 , 243:25, 244 :4, 244 :6, 244 :8, 244 : 15, 247:9, 247 : 18 , 247:20 , 249 : 16 , 249: 18 , 255 :25, 268:7, 269:6, 269 : 13 , 269:20 , 269 :24 , 271 :1, 271 : 19 , 272 :1, 275 : 17 , 275:21 , 277 :6, 277 : 11 , 278:3, 278 : 13 , 278: 16 , 278 :25, 279: 12 , 280 :4, 280 :7, 280 :9, 280 :24 , 281 :1, 281 :8, 281 : 10 , 282 :1, 282 :6, 282 : 16 , 282 :23 , 283 :9, 283 : 12 , 283 : 15, 283: 18 , 283 :21 , 283:23 , 284 :24 , 284:25, 285 : 14 , 285: 16 , 285 : 18 , 285:24 , 286 :1, 286 :2, 286 :3, 286 :4, 286 :5, 286 :7, 286 : 17 , 286:20 , 286 :23 , 286:24 , 287 :2, 287 :3, 287 :7, 287 : 10 , 287: 13 , 287 : 18 , 288:9, 288 : 17 , 288:20 , 289 :6, 289 :7, 290 : 12 , 294 :2, 298 : 13 , 300:6, 303 :24 , 305: 19 , 307 :25, 310:6, 311 : 18 , 312 : 13 **MS** [ 152] - 181 :1, 182 :5, 182 :9, 182 : 13 , 182 : 19 , 183: 11 , 183 : 19 , 183:21 , 187 : 11 , 187: 12 , 187 : 13 , 187: 15, 187 : 16 , 189:21 , 190 :6, 190 :8, 192 :22 , 192 :25, 193: 15, 193 : 17 , 197: 10 , 197 :21 , 197:24 , 201 : 16 , 204:22 , 207 :1, 207 :3, 207 :5, 207 : 12 , 210: 14 , 212 :3, 214 : 13 , 216:5, 218 :24 , 219:3, 219:5, 226 : 15, 226: 18 , 226 :22 , 226:24 , 227 :1, 227 :5, 227 :6, 228 :22 , 229:1, 229 : 19 , 230: 19 , 231 : 15, 231 : 16 , 232 :3, 233 :6, 233 :7, 233 :20 , 234: 15, 234 : 18 , 235: 14 , 236 :22 , 237: 16 , 238 :5, 238 :25, 240:8, 244 :2, 244 :5, 244 :7, 244 :9, 244 : 17 , 245:7, 245 : 10 , 247:4, 249:6, 251 :6, 251 : 15, 251 : 18 , 255: 17 , 258 :2, 258 :7, 258 :8, 258 : 10 , 258: 11 , 258 : 16 , 258:20 , 259 :5, 264 :20 , 265:5, 267 :20 , 269:5, 269:8, 269 : 19 , 269:21 , 270 :23 , 271 :7, 271 : 12 , 271 : 13 , 271 : 16 , 271 : 17 , 271 :20 , 275: 13 , 275 : 15, 275:20 , 275 :22 , 276:7, 276:8, 278 :2, 278 : 10 , 278 : 15, 278: 19 , 278 :20 , 279:6, 279 :22 , 279:23 , 280 :5, 280 :8, 280 : 19 , 280 :21 , 281 : 19 , 282 :2, 282 : 15, 282 :22 , 283:8, 283 : 11 , 283: 14 , 283 : 17 , 283:20 , 283 :22 , 284:23 , 285 : 17 , 286: 12 , 286 : 13 , 286: 18 , 287 : 19 , 288: 11 , 288 : 19 , 288:24 , 289 :8, 289 : 11 , 290:2, 293 :25, 298: 11 , 300 :4, 300 :8, 300 : 12 , 300 : 18 , 303:23 , 305 : 18 , 307:24 , 310 :5, 312 :1, 312 : 14 , 312 : 15, 312 : 17 , 312 :22 , 312 :23 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 15

**MSR** [2] - 176 : 14 , 182 : 12 **multi** [1] - 205 : 16 **multi -**  **jurisdictional** [1] - 205: 16 **multiplier** [1] - 257 : 11 **multitude** [1] - 309 : 12 **must** [9] - 201 :8, 213 :8, 220 :3, 221 :23 , 222 :7, 222 : 13 , 230:5, 232 :22 , 302 : 12 

## N

**N- 4064**  [1] - 175 : 19 **name** [32] - 181 :2, 184 : 13 , 187:24 , 188 :1, 190 :20 , 193:9, 193 : 12 , 197:20 , 200 :25, 202 :6, 205:5, 205 : 12 , 207: 10 , 210 :22 , 212 :9, 214 :22 , 217:2, 218:1, 245 :5, 247 :9, 247 : 17 , 249 : 14 , 251 : 13 , 251 :21 , 255:24 , 255 :25, 258: 15, 258 : 19 , 258:20 , 259 :5, 268 :6, 268 :7 **named** [1] - 261 : 14 **narrow** [1] - 224 :9 **Nation** [40] - 241 :8, 242 :1, 242 :3, 242 :21 , 251 :24 , 252 :25, 253 : 10 , 253: 18 , 256 :8, 256 : 12 , 256 : 13 , 259:7, 259:8, 259 : 11 , 259: 19 , 259 :20 , 259:21 , 260 :2, 260 : 16 , 260 : 19 , 261 :1, 261 :5, 261 : 13 , 261 : 17 , 262 :1, 262 :5, 262 :7, 262 :9, 262 : 19 , 262 :25, 263: 14 , 263 : 18 , 263:22 , 263 :25, 264:1, 264:7, 264 : 13 , 267: 17 , 268 :24 **nation** [8] - 186 : 11 , 186 : 16 , 206:9, 253 : 12 , 254: 18 , 261 :5, 307 : 12 , 307: 16 **nation 's**  [1] - 307: 14 **Nation 's**  [3] - 260: 14 , 261 :3, 265 :20 **national** [1] - 209: 23 **National** [4] - 284:4,285 : 19 , 293:3, 311 :7 **Nations** [2] - 201 :1, 255 :1 **Native** [2] - 242 : 13 , 309 :4 **natural** [11 ] - 194 :1, 194 :7, 201 :5, 209 :25, 215 :9, 253 : 25, 260 : 11 , 260: 15, 266 : 23 , 304:9 **nature** [1] - 250:8 **Navajo** [67] - 197:25, 198 :1, 198 :5, 198 : 10 , 200 :5, 200 : 19 , 241 :7, 241 :8, 242 :1, 242 :3, 242 : 11 , 242 : 20 , 242 : 21 , 243: 16 , 251 : 24 , 252 : 25, 253 : 10 , 253: 18 , 256 :8, 256 : 12 , 256 : 13 , 259:6, 259:8, 259 :9, 259 : 11 , 259 : 19 , 259: 20 , 259 : 21 , 260:2, 260:7, 260 : 14 , 260: 15, 260 : 19 , 260: 20 , 260 : 23 , 260: 24 , 261 :1, 261 :2, 261 :4, 261 :5, 261 :9, 261 : 11 , 261 : 12 , 261 : 13 , 261 : 15, 261 : 17 , 262 :1, 262 :4, 262 :7, 262 :9, 262 : 18 , 262 : 25, 263:1, 263 : 14 , 263: 18 , 263 : 22 , 263: 25, 264 :1, 264 :7, 264 : 13 , 265 : 20 , 267: 17 , 268 : 24 **Navajos** [6] - 199:9, 200 :3, 200 : 12 , 201 :3, 252 : 23 **NCR** [1] - 282 :8 **nearby** [1] - 200 :21 **nearly** [3] - 213 :23 , 242 : 14 , 243: 10 **necessarily** [1] - 222 : 23 **necessary** [2] - 201 : 13 , 202 : 16 **neck** [1] - 243 :24 **need** [ 11 ] - 200: 16, 203 : 16 , 204:5, 206 : 18 , 211 :4, 236 : 12 , 248: 16 , 287 : 25, 305: 12 , 311 : 22 , 312 : 20 **needed** [2] - 194:3, 252 : 15 **needing** [1] - 301 :9 **needs** [6] - 194 :9, 253 : 14 , 254: 15, 290 :20 , 295:4, 307: 19 **negative** [1] - 309:7 **negatively** [1] - 254 : 16 **negligent** [1] - 304 :24 **negligible** [1] - 213 : 12 **neighbor** [2] - 208 : 13 , 210:8 **neighbors** [1] - 254 :2 **Nenahnezad** [1] - 252 :21 **NESHAPs** [1] - 237 :3 **never** [2] - 233:9, 266 : 19 **nevertheless** [1] - 262 :8 **NEW** [3] - 174 :1, 180 :6, 313 :1 **new** [5] - 198 :23 , 234 :7, 238 : 11 , 238 : 12 , 282 :4 **New** [82] - 174: 19 , 175 :3, 175 :5, 175 :6, 175 : 13 , 175: 16 , 175 : 18 , 175:20 , 176 :2, 176 :6, 176 : 11 , 176 : 17 , 180: 10 , 182 :3, 182 :7, 185 :25, 194 :1, 195 : 12 , 196:3, 199 :22 , 207: 19 , 207 :20 , 208:6, 208 : 12 , 209:2, 209:7, 210 :7, 210 : 10 , 212 :20 , 212 :21 , 216 : 13 , 223:25, 224 :7, 225 :20 , 226:1, 227 :21 , 230:1, 231 :4, 231 : 11 , 237:3, 240:5, 240 : 18 , 241 :1, 241 :2, 241 :6, 241 : 11 , 241 : 14 , 241 :22 , 242 :1, 242 : 10 , 242 :23 , 243:9, 243 : 10 , 248:25, 249 :3, 250 :24 , 251 : 19 , 252 : 10 , 253 : 18 , 256: 13 , 259 : 12 , 259: 13 , 259 : 15, 259: 16 , 259 :23 , 264:7, 264 : 14 , 265:9, 275:7, 294 : 13 , 295:9, 295 : 12 , 295: 15, 297 :25, 298:3, 298:8, 303 :7, 306 : 10 , 310 : 10 , 310:25, 311 :8, 311 : 17 **next** [7] - 190 :4, 192 : 13 , 230: 15, 239 :5, 258 :9, 265 :7, 305 :24 **NG S**  [3] - 262 : 16 , 262 : 19 , 262 :20 **nice** [1] - 183 : 19 **night** [2] - 184:4, 270 : 10 **nitrates** [4] - 229 :25, 277 :21 , 279: 17 , 287 : 13 **nitrogen** [7] - 206 :3, 206 :9, 207 :23 , 208 : 19 , 208:24 , 213 :3, 241 : 17 **NMED** [8] - 211 : 11 , 234 : 11 , 272 : 15, 273 : 11 , 274: 12 , 274 : 19 , 275:2, 298:22 **NMED 's**  [3] - 229 : 19 , 293 : 19 , 303:4 **nobody** [1] - 255:6 **nonair** [2] - 237: 10, 291 : 10 **nonattainment** [1] - 208 :22 **noncatalytic** [1] - 206 :1 **none** [4] - 219 :7, 240 : 11 , 246: 10 **nonprofit** [3] - 243 :22 , 245: 14 , 262 : 12 **nontechnical** [6] - 244 : 19 , 247:7, 247 :20 , 258:4, 269 : 10 , 308: 18 **normally** [2] - 192 :1, 192 :2 **NO RMAN**  [3] - 178 : 10 , 216:24 , 239 :6 **Norman** [3] - 180:4, 239 :5, 256 :2 **north** [1] - 188 :6 **Northern** [1] - 200 : 19 **Northwest** [3] - 176 :5, 241 :6, 252 : 10 **notably** [1] - 198: 15 **NO TARY**  [1] - 313: 19 **note** [6] - 183:3, 183 : 10 , 221 :2, 284 :25, 296: 10 , 308 : 15 **noted** [1] - 287 : 12 **nothing** [8] - 185 :4, 223 : 19 , 224:21 , 234 : 14 , 250:6, 272 :7, 289 : 16 , 300:6 **notice** [1] - 289 :2 **notwithstanding** [1]

- 289 :1 **NO x**  [25] - 188 :22 , 195 :6, 206 :3, 206 : 18 , 208 : 16 , 211 :7, 211 :8, 211 : 12 , 211 :23 , 211 :24 , 229:25, 230 :6, 230 :9, 235 :7, 276 : 17 , 276:21 , 281 : 16 , 282 : 11 , 282 : 13 , 287:6, 287 : 11 , 287: 13 , 296 :6, 296 : 10 , 297: 18 **NTUA** [2] - 256 :9 **nuclear** [1] - 215 :6 **number** [10] - 224 : 18 , 254:21 , 267 :8, 269 : 18 , 278 :24 , 282 : 12 , 283 : 16 , 294: 19 , 296 :23 , 310:2 **Number** [1] - 313:20 **numbers** [1] - 273 :6 

## O

**O-R-T-E-G-A** [1] - 249 : 16 **OA QPS**  [1] - 238 : 17 **oath** [2] - 181 : 14, 276 :1 **objection** [3] - 289:5, 289 :6, 289 :7 **objections** [4] - 219 :6, 240 : 10 , 288:7, 288 : 18 **obligation** [2] - 235 :8, 304 :22 **obtain** [1] - 242 :6 **obtained** [1] - 306:4 **obvious** [2] - 304:21 , 305 : 12 **obviously** [2] - 234 :9, 237 : 18 **occupies** [1] - 259 :23 **occurrence** [1] - 184 :25 **OF** [6] - 174 :1, 174 :4, 174 : 14 , 180:6, 313:1, 313 :3 **offend** [1] - 231 :20 **offer** [8] - 201 : 18 , 217 : 18 , 218:22 , 226 : 16 , 240:25, 243 :25, 259: 10 , 289 :20 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 16

**offered** [4] - 229: 18 , 229 :24 , 288:22 , 298 : 17 **offering** [1] - 219:2 **office** [6] - 181 :22 , 191 : 11 , 192 : 17 , 199 : 12 , 199:20 , 259 :7 **Office** [5] - 175: 12, 175 : 13 , 175: 17 , 175 : 18 , 176: 16 **officer** [1] - 313:6 **Officer** [ 17] - 175 :2, 181 :3, 182 : 16 , 183:2, 216 : 10 , 217:25, 218 :21 , 233:24 , 234 : 17 , 239:4, 271 :1, 288 :9, 288 : 17 , 288 :21 , 290: 13 , 298 : 14 , 300:7 **officials** [1] - 183 :4 **often** [1] - 183: 12 **oftentimes** [1] - 188 : 12 **oil** [1] - 210:2 **old** [2] - 242 :4, 267:8 **older** [1] - 202 : 10 **once** [3] - 181 :21 , 231 :7, 243 :23 **one** [49] - 185 : 11 , 187 :8, 188 : 10 , 197:1, 202 : 11 , 203: 17 , 204 :5, 208 :23 , 211 :3, 211 : 17 , 214: 15, 216 :20 , 225:4, 225 : 17 , 225:22 , 227 : 14 , 227:25, 230 :4, 233 : 14 , 234 : 19 , 235: 17 , 236 : 13 , 237:7, 237 : 16 , 238:6, 238:9, 247 :23 , 249:22 , 250 : 12 , 252 :23 , 255 : 13 , 257:21 , 262 :24 , 267: 13 , 272 :2, 273 : 17 , 277 : 18 , 281 :6, 284 : 19 , 286:8, 292 : 13 , 292 :23 , 299 : 10 , 299:22 , 302 : 13 , 306:4, 306: 10 **one -** **shot** [1] - 225 : 17 **one -** **size -** **fits -** **all** [2] - 225 :22 , 227: 14 **online** [1] - 206 :6 **ons** [1] - 281 : 15 **open** [1] - 294 :4 **operate** [3] - 202 : 15, 241 :6, 292 :6 **operated** [1] - 241 : 10 **operates** [2] -196 : 23 , 241 :4 **Operating** [4] - 240 :3, 242 : 19 , 249 : 20 , 256: 21 **operating** [3] - 241 :5, 253 : 15, 291 :25 **operation** [2] - 215 : 23 , 241 : 25 **operational** [4] - 260 :9, 280 : 10 , 281 : 13 , 281 : 17 **operations** [4] - 190 : 24 , 218: 16 , 242 : 12 , 242 : 24 **opinion** [4] - 231 : 17 , 235 :2, 235 : 22 , 309: 19 **opportunities** [1] - 208 :2 **opportunity** [ 11 ] - 191 : 11 , 217: 15, 239 : 15, 244: 20 , 251 :3, 258 :5, 269 : 11 , 270 :5, 270 : 12 , 271 :4, 288 :3 **opposed** [1] - 183:8 **option** [1] - 279 :20 **options** [1] - 292 : 13 **order** [2] - 186 :22 , 264 : 17 **Oregon** [1] - 233 : 16 **organic** [2] - 277 :22 , 279 : 18 **organization** [2] - 205 : 13 , 255:2 **organizations** [2] - 243 : 22 , 262 : 13 **originally** [2] - 226 :7, 239 : 22 **ORTEGA** [4] - 178 : 16 , 249: 10 , 249 : 16 , 249: 18 **Ortega** [2] - 249 : 16 , 251 :6 **Orth** [2] - 181 :2, 312 : 24 **ORTH** [87] - 175 :3, 181 :1, 182 :5, 182 :9, 182 : 13 , 182 : 19 , 183 : 11 , 183: 19 , 187 : 11 , 187: 13 , 187 : 16 , 189: 21 , 190 :6, 190 :8, 192 :22 , 192 : 25, 193: 15, 193 : 17 , 197: 10 , 201 : 16 , 204: 22 , 207 :1, 207 :5, 210 : 14 , 212 :3, 214 : 13 , 216:5, 218 : 24 , 219:3, 219:5, 226 : 15, 226: 18 , 226 : 22 , 226: 24 , 227 :1, 227 :5, 231 : 16 , 232 :3, 233 :6, 233 :20 , 234 : 15, 234: 18 , 235 : 14 , 238:5, 238 :25, 240:8, 244:2, 244 :5, 244 :7, 244 :9, 244 : 17 , 247:4, 249:6, 251 :6, 255 : 17 , 258:2, 258 :8, 258 : 11 , 264 :20 , 267:20 , 269 :5, 269 :8, 269 : 19 , 269 :21 , 270:23 , 271 :7, 271 : 13 , 271 : 17 , 275: 13 , 275 :20 , 275:22 , 276 :7, 280 :21 , 286 : 13 , 286: 18 , 287 : 19 , 288: 11 , 288 : 19 , 288:24 , 289 :8, 289 : 11 , 290:2, 293 :25, 298: 11 , 300 :4, 300 :8, 312 :22 **otherwise** [2] - 189 :6, 289 :4 **ourselves** [1] - 254:1 **outcomes** [2] - 309 :6, 309 :8 **outdoors** [1] - 305 : 10 **outlined** [4] - 222 :24 , 227 :8, 227 : 17 , 310:24 **outperforms** [1] - 194 : 11 **output** [1] - 303: 16 **outside** [7] - 184 : 16 , 185 :2, 195 :23 , 196 :24 , 214:4, 262 :7, 282 :9 **outweighs** [1] - 307 : 17 **overall** [4] - 194 : 17 , 210 : 11 , 279:3, 306: 11 **overgrazing** [1] - 210 :3 **overlaid** [2] - 284 :9, 284 : 17 **overwhelmingly** [1] - 310 :9 **own** [ 12] - 198 : 11 , 217 :20 , 232 : 11 , 259 : 14 , 262 : 14 , 265 : 11 , 295: 15, 297 :7, 297 : 14 , 303 : 16 , 305:1 **owned** [1] - 241 :2 **owner** [1] - 212 : 17 **owners** [1] - 256 : 11 **oxide** [6] - 206 :9, 207 :23 , 208: 19 , 208 :24 , 213:3, 241 : 17 **oxides** [1] - 206:3 **ozone** [5] - 206: 17, 206 : 19 , 208:20 , 208 :21 , 280: 15 

## P

**p.m** [1] - 312 :25 **PA** [2] - 176:4, 176 : 15 **package** [3] - 274 : 19 , 274:20 , 274 :22 **packet** [3] - 245:24 , 247 :2, 288 :8 **PAGE** [3] - 177 :2, 178 :2, 179 :2 **paid** [6] - 191 : 12 , 199 :22 , 242 :8, 242 :24 , 243:6, 294:7 **panel** [5] - 271 : 10 , 271 : 11 , 275:23 , 280 :22 , 287:21 **paper** [2] - 186: 18, 199 : 16 **papers** [2] - 191 : 12 , 304 : 18 **paranoid** [1] - 229 : 17 **parents** [1] - 192 : 15 **Park** [2] - 284 :4, 285 : 19 **park** [1] - 198:23 **parks** [2] - 197 :2, 209 :23 **part** [23] - 199:5, 202 : 14 , 204:1, 204 : 13 , 204:20 , 206 : 19 , 211 :9, 211 :20 , 215:24 , 225 : 13 , 230:1, 230 :23 , 236: 12 , 238 : 18 , 256: 11 , 277 : 16 , 281 : 17 , 282 :6, 283 : 19 , 284:1, 289 :1, 304 :25 **participate** [1] - 299 :9 **participation** [1] - 201 :23 **particular** [ 14] - 218 :4, 221 :4, 221 : 12 , 223 :25, 225:25, 226 :3, 235 :4, 249 :2, 265 : 19 , 277:4, 279:8, 279 :9, 291 :7, 310 :3 **particularly** [6] - 181 : 16 , 183: 15, 221 : 10 , 227: 13 , 262 :25, 302 :22 **particulate** [7] - 188 :23 , 213:3, 241 : 18 , 266:3, 277 :22 , 278:25, 279 : 17 **parties** [6] - 223 : 13 , 270 : 18 , 288:2, 290:8, 313 : 14 , 313: 16 **parts** [1] - 227 :25 **party** [2] - 223: 10, 289 : 19 **Paseo** [1] - 176 : 17 **past** [5] - 185 :8, 192 :6, 196 :9, 239 :23 , 301 :2 **paternal** [1] - 240 :23 **path** [1] - 186:22 **pay** [6] - 191 : 18 , 202 :24 , 203:1, 203 : 17 , 222 : 15, 295 :20 **paying** [5] - 185:23, 204 : 10 , 204: 12 , 252 : 13 , 254:23 **payroll** [2] - 242 : 12 , 243 :5 **pays** [1] - 213:25 **PEACOCK** [16] - 175 :7, 183 :21 , 187 : 12 , 233:7, 271 : 12 , 271 : 16 , 271 :20 , 300: 12 , 303 :23 , 305: 18 , 307 :24 , 310:5, 312 :1, 312 : 15, 312 : 17 , 312 :23 **Peak** [1] - 211 : 14 **pending** [1] - 274:24 **pension** [2] - 268: 17, 268 :20 **people** [61 ] - 185 : 18 , 191 :4, 191 :5, 191 :9, 191 : 13 , 191 : 17 , 191 :20 , 192 :9, 192 : 18 , 192 :21 , 195 :2, 198 : 13 , 198 : 18 , 200:4, 202 : 10 , 202 :25, 203 :2, 203 : 10 , 203 :23 , 204:8, 204 : 10 , 208:3, 213 :24 , 233: 15, 236 : 18 , 242 : 11 , 246 :9, 246 :24 , 253:7, 253 :20 , 254:20 , 254 :25, 255: 12 , 256 : 15, 256: 19 , 257 : 15, 257: 18 , 259 :21 , 260:2, 261 :4, 264 : 12 , 267: 17 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 17

268 : 12 , 268: 14 , 268 : 17 , 268:24 , 269 :2, 274 :4, 294 : 19 , 299 : 19 , 304:1, 304:4, 307 :6, 310 :9, 310 : 15, 311 :2 **people 's**  [3] - 230 : 13 , 246: 13 , 246 : 19 **per** [ 13] - 209:7, 209 :8, 209 : 17 , 209 : 18 , 224: 17 , 224 :20 , 224:23 , 224 :25, 228: 14 , 235 :22 , 243:1, 282 : 13 , 296: 12 **Peralta** [1] - 176: 17 **perceivably** [1] - 197 :1 **percent** [26] - 188 :22 , 188:23 , 192 : 13 , 194:2, 195:6, 195 :7, 206 :3, 206 : 13 , 207 :24 , 211 : 13 , 242 :9, 242 : 13 , 242 : 14 , 242 :22 , 260 :3, 260 :4, 260 :7, 260 :8, 260 :9, 260 : 10 , 260 : 11 , 260: 12 , 261 : 10 , 261 : 11 , 268 : 14 , 286:8 **percentages** [1] - 261 :24 **perfectly** [1] - 186:2 **performance** [1] - 311 :9 **Performance** [1] - 237 :3 **performed** [1] - 225 : 12 **perhaps** [1] - 264 :9 **period** [3] - 230:4, 273 :1, 283 :1 **permit** [1] - 199: 15 **person** [3] - 209 : 17, 265 :25, 309: 10 **personally** [4] - 203 : 19 , 301 :1, 301 : 13 , 313: 10 **persons** [1] - 200 :8 **perspective** [1] - 265 : 17 **pertains** [1] - 241 : 24 **Phoenix** [1] - 242 :7 **phrase** [1] - 234 : 25 **picture** [7] - 192 :6, 285 :8, 285 : 10 , 285 : 12 , 285: 13 , 285 :25, 286:1 **pictures** [1] - 285 : 18**pie** [1] - 211 : 22 **pieces** [1] - 280 : 17 **pipe** [1] - 308 : 24 **PJT -2**  [1] - 296 : 17 **place** [7] - 185: 13 , 188 : 11 , 191 : 24 , 250 : 20 , 259: 24 , 304 : 24 , 306:7 **places** [2] - 181 :24, 276 : 14 **plan** [49] - 186:8, 186 :9, 191 : 22 , 193 : 25, 194: 13 , 195 :4, 195 : 13 , 195 : 16 , 195: 18 , 196 : 25, 197:5, 207 : 21 , 211 : 17 , 211 : 20 , 211 : 22 , 213 :9, 213 : 10 , 213 : 11 , 213: 14 , 213 : 18 , 215: 22 , 219 : 14 , 221 : 22 , 225 : 14 , 230: 17 , 232 : 16 , 236:9, 236 : 20 , 245: 25, 246 :2, 250 : 24 , 252 :4, 274 : 13 , 291 :1, 304 : 20 , 306: 14 , 307 :4, 307 : 18 , 307 : 19 , 307: 23 , 308 :9, 308 : 10 , 308 : 16 , 308: 19 , 308 : 20 , 310: 11 , 311 : 14 , 311 : 17 **Plan** [22] - 181 :5, 195 : 12 , 205: 24 , 207 : 21 , 208: 13 , 208 : 18 , 214:8, 250 : 20 , 251 :2, 256:6, 257 : 25, 259: 13 , 264 : 15, 272 : 20 , 274 : 11 , 274: 15, 290 :6, 290 : 25, 296:1, 298 :6, 303 :5, 310 :20 **PLA N**  [1] - 174 :4 **planned** [1] - 260:21 **planning** [9] - 186:3, 186 :6, 215 :4, 225 : 15, 225 : 19 , 262 : 20 , 265 :6, 307 : 19 , 307:21 **plans** [1] - 236 : 11 **Plant** [7] - 199:7, 199 : 11 , 247: 22 , 260 : 19 , 261 : 10 , 261 : 15, 268: 21 **plant** [32] - 189 : 12 , 194 : 10 , 196: 21 , 202 : 22 , 208:9, 209:2, 209 : 14 , 210:4, 213:6, 213 : 23 , 213: 25, 215 : 16 , 215: 19 , 224 : 12 , 228:20 , 233 : 12 , 237: 11 , 237 : 12 , 238:24 , 247 :25, 250:4, 254 : 16 , 268: 10 , 273 :23 , 281 : 13 , 282 :5, 287 : 15, 299 :21 , 299:24 , 303 :20 , 311 : 16 **plant 's**  [3] - 195 :6, 207 :23 , 213:2 **plants** [35] - 185:5, 185 :22 , 186: 16 , 196 : 12 , 196:20 , 200 : 13 , 215:8, 215:9, 215 :22 , 215:25, 232 :23 , 248:4, 248:5, 248 : 11 , 255:4, 255:6, 257 : 17 , 260: 18 , 260 :20 , 261 : 14 , 261 : 17 , 261 : 18 , 261 :25, 262 : 18 , 262 :24 , 263:1, 265 : 13 , 265: 15, 266 : 10 , 269:1, 296 : 18 , 296:20 , 296 :23 , 296:25 **Plata** [5] - 207: 13, 207 : 17 , 208:6, 208 :22 , 210:6 **play** [2] - 206 :20 , 311 :5 **played** [1] - 312 :5 **pleadings** [1] - 293 :20 **pleasure** [1] - 183:3 **plug** [1] - 292 : 17 **plumbing** [1] - 260:8 **plume** [3] - 287 :6, 287 : 11 , 287: 14 **plumes** [1] - 287: 16 **plus** [2] - 243 :1, 243 :8 **PNM** [38] - 188 : 19 , 189 :8, 191 :23 , 192 : 11 , 194:5, 195 : 17 , 205:23 , 206 :5, 206 : 15, 209:6, 211 :23 , 213:1, 229 : 19 , 230:9, 230 : 14 , 253:8, 253 : 14 , 254: 15, 256 : 11 , 256: 12 , 256 : 17 , 256:24 , 257 :3, 257 : 10 , 262 : 11 , 269: 13 , 269 :25, 271 : 10 , 271 : 12 , 271 :23 , 271 :24 , 273:1, 273:6, 289 : 10 , 303: 14 , 303 :20 , 311 : 16 **PNM 's**  [5] - 206 : 13 , 275 : 15, 285:2, 303:4, 312 :3 **point** [11 ] - 232 : 18 , 244 : 18 , 246: 15, 253 :23 , 272 :2, 272 :8, 292 :21 , 293:8, 293 :20 , 311 :4, 311 : 13 **pointed** [5] - 213 :21 , 214 :6, 234 :7, 310 :9, 310 :23 **pointless** [1] - 229 :20 **points** [1] - 266 :25 **policy** [1] - 220 :2 **politely** [1] - 228 :6 **pollutant** [1] - 224 :20 **pollutants** [8] - 208 :8, 209 :1, 209 :4, 211 : 13 , 211 :23 , 277 :23 , 279:9, 308:24 **pollute** [1] - 200 : 13 **pollution** [ 16] - 199 :2, 206 :7, 209 : 14 , 210 :4, 211 :9, 248 :6, 248 : 11 , 254: 12 , 254 : 13 , 255:3, 255:4, 255 :5, 265 : 14 , 265 :24 , 276: 17 , 291 : 11 **poor** [3] - 185 :9, 309 : 10 , 309: 13 **poorer** [2] - 307 : 12 , 307 : 15 **poorest** [3] - 260:3, 306 : 11 **portion** [1] - 218: 17 **portions** [1] - 188 :5 **pose** [1] - 257 :21 **posed** [1] - 226 :2 **position** [2] - 241 :22 , 292 : 19 **positions** [2] - 239 :23 , 252 :20 **positive** [3] - 243: 14, 262 : 10 , 299:1 **possibility** [1] - 198 :22 **possible** [3] - 203 :2, 206 : 17 , 222 : 17 **possibly** [1] - 270 : 16 **Post** [3] - 175 : 13 , 175 : 18 , 176: 16 **postcombustion** [1]

- 297 :21 **potential** [6] - 224:6, 263 :2, 265 : 11 , 266:9, 266 :20 , 295:8 **potentially** [2] - 209 :3, 267 :4 **pound** [1] - 282 : 13 **poverty** [2] - 208 :4, 260 :4 **power** [40] - 185 :5, 185 :21 , 186: 15, 194 :2, 196 : 12 , 196 :20 , 200: 12 , 208 :9, 209 :2, 209 : 14 , 210 :4, 213 :23 , 224 : 12 , 228:20 , 232 :23 , 233: 12 , 248 :4, 248 :5, 248 : 11 , 250 :4, 255 :6, 260 : 18 , 260 :20 , 261 : 14 , 261 : 17 , 261 : 18 , 261 :25, 262 : 18 , 262 :23 , 265: 13 , 265 : 15, 266: 10 , 268 : 10 , 268:25, 287 : 15, 296: 18 , 299 :20 , 299:24 **Power** [8] - 176: 14 , 182 : 12 , 199:7, 199 : 11 , 247:21 , 260 : 19 , 261 : 15, 268 :21 **practicability** [1] - 302 :6 **practice** [1] - 218 :3 **preamble** [1] - 297 : 10 **precipitation** [1] - 280 : 15 **preconsent** [1] - 282 : 10 **precontrolled** [1] - 284 :8 **precursor** [1] - 208 :20 **predetermined** [1] - 224 : 10 **predicting** [1] - 309 :7 **predictor** [1] - 309:6 **preference** [2] - 221 : 17 , 228: 10 **prefers** [1] - 229 : 12 **prefiled** [2] - 217 :9, 239 : 12 **premise** [1] - 220 :6 **prepare** [2] - 217:9, 239 : 12 **prepared** [1] - 288 : 16 **prerogative** [1] - 223 : 11 **present** [2] - 270 : 12 , 303 :3 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 18

**presented** [3] - 191 :23 , 216:20 , 310 :20 **presenting** [1] - 308 :6 **preserve** [1] - 214 :8 **president** [3] - 212 :21 , 251 :22 , 251 :25 **pressure** [1] - 215 :3 **presumably** [3] - 231 : 10 , 288:2, 293:1 **presume** [1] - 297 : 15 **presumptive** [10] - 232 :9, 232 : 11 , 232 : 13 , 232 : 16 , 232 : 19 , 233:3, 282 :21 , 293:7, 295: 24 **pretty** [1] - 227: 18 **prevailing** [1] - 208:8 **prevented** [1] - 201 :8 **previous** [1] - 302 :8 **previously** [3] - 276 :3, 282 :8, 303 : 14 **primarily** [3] - 218 : 12 , 228: 12 , 269 : 15 **primary** [3] - 225 :1, 252 :3, 309 :6 **principal** [1] - 221 :5 **priority** [1] - 252 :6 **pristine** [2] - 198 : 16 , 305 :4 **priv ate**  [3] - 200 :8, 242 :20 , 245:23 **pro** [1] - 193 :21 **problem** [9] - 188 : 13 , 192 :1, 198 : 14 , 199:1, 211 :20 , 211 :24 , 212 :1, 230 :1, 236 :2 **problems** [4] - 189 : 19 , 199:3, 200 : 17 , 266:6 **procedures** [1] - 222 :24 **proceeding** [4] - 236 :4, 272 :21 , 313:7, 313 : 14 **Proceedings** [2] - 289 :25, 312 :25 **PROCEEDINGS** [1] - 174 : 14 **proceedings** [1] - 181 : 17 **process** [ 11 ] - 188 : 11 , 189: 10 , 189 : 15, 189: 19 , 228 :24 , 271 :23 , 272 :5, 294 :23 , 299 : 10 , 312 :7**proclaimed** [1] -

201 :5 **produce** [7] - 186 : 18 , 203 : 20 , 213: 11 , 215 : 12 , 215: 15, 224 : 10 , 265: 14 **produced** [3] - 185 : 21 , 209: 21 , 284 :2 **producer** [1] - 203 : 20 **productive** [3] - 249 : 24 , 303: 18 , 309 :2 **professional** [1] - 199 : 16 **professor** [1] - 265:8 **profound** [2] - 250:3, 272 : 16 **program** [ 15] - 205 : 21 , 205: 23 , 220 : 23 , 221 : 12 , 225 : 18 , 228:1, 229:2, 230 :8, 235 : 24 , 236 : 16 , 243: 20 , 267 : 15, 267: 16 , 284 :3, 293 : 15 **programs** [5] - 200 : 10 , 235: 25, 237 :2, 252 : 15, 252 : 18 **progress** [6] - 218 : 20 , 222 :2, 230 : 11 , 235:9, 235 : 11 , 264: 17 **prohibit** [1] - 200:9 **projects** [1] - 257 :5 **prolong** [1] - 269:25 **prolonged** [1] - 210 :3 **promote** [1] - 210: 10 **promulgated** [2] - 220 : 24 , 221 :2 **promulgation** [1] - 263 :9 **proper** [1] - 289 :3 **properly** [1] - 235 :22 **property** [2] - 214:1, 302 :4 **proposal** [24] - 195 :5, 195 :8, 195 :9, 208 : 15, 212 : 15, 227 : 15, 227: 16 , 229 : 20 , 234: 11 , 241 : 15, 241 : 20 , 269 :6, 272 :7, 272 : 15, 272 : 17 , 273: 11 , 274 :3, 275 :3, 297 :24 , 298 :2, 298 : 22 , 303:4, 308 : 21 , 311 :1 **propose** [2] - 231 :9, 262 : 20 **proposed** [38] - 181 :4, 195 : 12 , 198 : 12 , 199: 11 , 208 : 12 , 208: 15, 208 : 17 , 209:5, 211 : 17 , 219:24 , 228 :20 , 228:23 , 233 : 17 , 250:2, 259 : 12 , 262 :2, 262 :3, 262 : 15, 263:7, 263 :24 , 264:2, 264 : 14 , 264: 16 , 272 :7, 272 : 11 , 274 : 12 , 278:7, 278 : 17 , 279:8, 281 :7, 290 :5, 293 : 19 , 293 :21 , 296: 19 , 296 :24 , 297:4, 298:9, 298 :21 **PROPOSED** [1] - 174 :4 **proposing** [1] - 262 : 18 **protect** [2] - 301 :9, 311 : 12 **protection** [3] - 218 : 19 , 220:23 , 236 :1 **Protection** [5] - 199 : 13 , 200:1, 241 :20 , 259:7, 259: 10 **protects** [1] - 195 : 15 **protocol** [1] - 278 :7 **proud** [1] - 196 :3 **proudly** [1] - 255 : 12 **prove** [1] - 218: 11 **proved** [1] - 304: 11 **provide** [20] - 194 :8, 208 :2, 210 :1, 217 : 12 , 222 : 17 , 251 :2, 252 : 15, 252 : 18 , 255 : 10 , 260:22 , 260 :25, 261 :8, 270 : 12 , 270: 15, 286 : 11 , 292 :1, 292 :7, 296 : 15 **provided** [ 11 ] - 209 :6, 222 :3, 250 :8, 252 : 17 , 268:21 , 270 : 18 , 278: 17 , 294 : 18 , 294:22 , 308 : 12 **provides** [3] - 194 :2, 221 : 13 , 267: 14 **providing** [4] - 249 :23 , 253: 15, 300 : 13 **provision** [1] - 293 : 12 **provisions** [8] - 208 : 13 , 221 :9, 223 : 19 , 291 : 14 , 291 : 19 , 291 :21 , 293 :2, 298 :23 **PSD** [1] - 237 :4 **PUBLIC** [2] - 180:6, 313 : 19 **Public** [ 13] - 176:2, 176 :2, 176 : 14 , 180:7, 182 :3, 182 : 12 , 199 : 17 , 212 : 19 , 225 :20 , 288:4, 288:5, 288 : 14 , 294: 13 **public** [43] - 181 :9, 181 : 10 , 181 :21 , 183 :5, 183 : 15, 197 : 12 , 198:1, 198 : 13 , 199:6, 199 :20 , 201 : 19 , 201 :22 , 206: 10 , 214 : 14 , 219:22 , 223 : 16 , 229:24 , 236 :1, 237 :8, 241 : 10 , 244 : 19 , 247:7, 249:8, 252 :2, 258 :4, 269 : 10 , 269 : 14 , 269: 16 , 270 :6, 271 :5, 288 :22 , 290 : 18 , 301 :6, 302 :4, 302 : 13 , 304:1, 308 : 15, 308:25, 310 :8, 310 : 14 , 311 :3, 311 : 12 **publicity** [1] - 200 : 11 **published** [2] - 279 :2, 297 :9 **pulled** [1] - 190 :2 **purchases** [2] - 196 :21 , 214:2 **purports** [1] - 228 :3 **purpose** [2] - 219 : 12 , 245 :20 **purposes** [1] - 282 : 18 **pursuing** [1] - 264 :6 **push** [2] - 228 :21 , 257 :20 **put** [8] - 202 : 17 , 202 : 18 , 225:3, 248:5, 285 :21 , 301 :23 , 306 : 17 , 308:23 **putting** [1] - 227 :21 

## Q

**Q-U-I-N-T-A-N-A** [1] - 258 : 17 **quadruple** [1] - 215 : 18 **Quality** [7] - 201 : 12 , 293 :4, 295 : 16 , 301 : 17 , 301 :21 , 302 :1, 311 :7 **quality** [11 ] - 185 :9, 194 : 18 , 198: 16 , 198 :24 , 199: 11 , 210 :5, 216 :2, 237 : 10 , 253 :9, 253 : 11 , 311 :8 **quantifiable** [1] - 266 : 13 **quantified** [2] - 266 :8, 267 :4 **quantifies** [1] - 220 :3 **quantify** [6] - 238: 15, 265 :21 , 265:23 , 265 :25, 266: 14 , 267 :2 **quantify ing**  [1] - 276 :22 **quantitative** [2] - 222 :22 , 292 :7 **quarter** [1] - 292 : 13 **queries** [1] - 199 :23 **questioning** [1] - 181 : 15 **questions** [34] - 187 :9, 187 : 13 , 218 :25, 226: 17 , 226 : 19 , 226:21 , 226 :23 , 226:25, 233 :6, 233 :20 , 233 :21 , 244:1, 244:4, 244 :6, 244 :8, 244 : 10 , 270 : 11 , 270: 13 , 271 :4, 271 : 10 , 273 : 14 , 275:1, 276:9, 277 :7, 280 :21 , 284 :21 , 286: 13 , 286 : 17 , 287: 18 , 295 : 17 , 299:7, 308:7, 308 : 10 , 308: 13 **quills** [1] - 186: 17 **QUINTANA** [5] - 178 :22 , 258: 12 , 258 : 16 , 259:1, 259:5 **Quintana** [2] - 258 : 16 , 259:5 **quintana** [1] - 264:20 **quite** [4] - 184 : 17 , 262 : 11 , 290: 14 , 304 : 19 **quote** [1] - 283 : 15 

## R

**R-O-G-E-R-S** [1] - 247 : 18 **rain** [1] - 276 : 13 **rainstorm** [1] - 287:9 **rainy** [1] - 277 : 13 **raise** [6] - 190 : 13 , 193 :2, 204 :7, 204 : 10 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 19

216 :22 , 247: 10 **raised** [3] - 204 :8, 272 :1, 301 : 14 **ralvidrez @** **mstlaw .**  **com** [1] - 176:7 **Ram** [1] - 198:3 **range** [2] - 256: 15, 257 : 14 **ranks** [1] - 250 : 12 **rate** [4] - 192 : 12 , 209 :7, 209 :20 , 242 : 22 **ratepayer** [3] - 209 :8, 292 :22 , 293:7 **ratepayers** [4] - 214 : 11 , 295:8, 295 :20 , 306:24 **rates** [6] - 204:7, 204 :8, 215 :7, 215 : 10 , 215 : 18 , 216:1 **rather** [5] - 188 : 16 , 220 : 16 , 231 :22 , 238 :21 , 274: 10 **ratio** [1] - 307 :4 **rational** [1] - 267 : 12 **RAVI** [1] - 221 :1 **reach** [2] - 292 :8, 293 :23 **reaches** [1] - 298:3 **read** [4] - 221 :23 , 231 :22 , 274: 14 , 297 : 16 **readily** [2] - 274: 15, 274 :23 **reading** [2] - 207 : 15, 221 :22 **reads** [1] - 231 :3 **ready** [3] - 193 : 15, 193 : 16 , 218:25 **real** [3] - 191 : 17, 203 : 12 , 206:23 **reality** [2] - 203 :5, 203 :24 **realize** [1] - 203 : 16 **really** [31 ] - 184 :4, 191 :21 , 211 :21 , 215 : 17 , 216: 14 , 220 :6, 224 : 15, 229 : 13 , 229:25, 231 :1, 231 :21 , 232 :24 , 236: 12 , 238 :2, 242 :2, 246 : 15, 248 :3, 248 : 15, 266 : 19 , 272 : 12 , 275 :3, 292 : 10 , 292 : 12 , 300: 14 , 303 :8, 303 : 11 , 304 : 14 , 306: 12 , 307 : 16 , 309:22 , 310 :1 **rear** [1] - 250 : 14 **reason** [ 13] - 188: 18 ,195 : 10 , 226: 12 ,

233 :2, 234 : 16 , 236:8, 244 : 12 , 267: 16 , 274 :8, 287 : 20 , 289 : 13 , 295: 22 , 301 : 11 **reasonable** [ 12] - 194 : 14 , 196: 13 , 197 :3, 218 : 20 , 222 :2, 223 :9, 223 : 11 , 228 : 14 , 230: 11 , 235 :9, 235 : 10 , 264: 17 **reasonableness** [2] - 302 :7, 302 : 25 **reasonably** [2] - 221 :1, 291 : 20 **reasons** [3] - 194 : 13 , 293 : 21 , 308:9 **rebuttal** [4] - 180:7, 288 :6, 289 :2, 289 :3 **recalling** [1] - 275:22 **recap** [1] - 301 :20 **receive** [1] - 209 :20 **received** [3] - 181 : 22 , 228: 21 , 272 :9 **recent** [4] - 205:24, 209 : 10 , 230: 12 , 241 : 19 **recently** [5] - 206:5, 213 :6, 215 :2, 262 :1, 262 : 21 **recess** [1] - 289 :25 **recognition** [2] - 198 : 23 , 200: 23 **recognize** [2] - 194 :4, 303 :6 **recognizes** [1] - 223 :2 **recommend** [1] - 215 : 21 **recommendations** [1] - 199: 13 **reconvening** [1] - 181 :7 **record** [ 16] - 181 : 12, 181 : 21 , 182 :2, 186 : 15, 211 :8, 269 : 12 , 269: 23 , 271 :8, 277 : 10 , 285:1, 288 :2, 289 : 14 , 289 : 17 , 290:7, 293 : 16 , 313: 11 **recorded** [2] - 181 : 17 , 313: 10 **recover** [1] - 196: 15 **recruitment** [1] - 245 : 19 **Red** [2] - 240: 19, 240 : 21 **REDIRECT** [1] - 234 :1 **redirect** [2] - 178:7, 233 :22 **reduce** [5] - 195 :6, 207 :23 , 208: 14 , 296 : 10 , 311 : 16 **reduced** [4] - 188 :22 , 195 :7, 224 :20 , 236:7 **reducing** [1] - 302 :7 **reduction** [6] - 206 :1, 206 :3, 206 :8, 236 : 16 , 282 : 17 , 282 : 19 **reductions** [3] - 194 : 11 , 220: 18 , 235 : 11 **reference** [1] - 234 :3 **referred** [3] - 209 : 10 , 234 :23 , 287:4 **reflect** [1] - 223:25 **reflection** [1] - 291 :21 **reflects** [1] - 225 :7 **refuses** [1] - 224 : 13 **regard** [5] - 191 :4, 192 :5, 235 :4, 259 : 18 , 302 : 16 **regarding** [1] - 262 :2 **regards** [1] - 193:23 **Region** [5] - 213 : 14 , 262 :2, 262 : 19 , 264:6, 272 : 16 **region** [14] - 196 :20 , 208 : 11 , 208:25, 209 : 19 , 209:25, 210 : 12 , 213:22 , 214 :9, 250 :1, 261 :23 , 264 : 12 , 265: 11 , 266 :24 , 275:8 **REGIONAL** [1] - 174 :5 **Regional** [3] - 207 :20 , 263: 10 , 264 : 18 **regional** [45] - 181 :5, 193 :24 , 199:2, 199 :20 , 201 :7, 205 :20 , 205:23 , 206 : 10 , 213:8, 218 : 14 , 225: 13 , 229 :3, 229 :6, 229 : 14 , 230 :3, 230 :7, 230 : 17 , 231 :5, 231 : 10 , 233 : 13 , 235:5, 235:8, 235 :24 , 236:5, 236 : 11 , 236:24 , 237 :21 , 259: 13 , 259 : 17 , 261 :8, 261 : 19 , 262 :9, 263 :21 , 264: 15, 272 :21 , 274:5, 274 : 10 , 274: 16 , 274 :20 , 290:6, 298:5, 298 :20 , 302 :23 **regionally** [1] - 264 :2 **regions** [1] - 205 : 17 **regulate** [1] - 241 : 17 **regulated** [2] - 208 :20 , 250:4 **regulation** [3] - 213 :5, 255 :6, 291 :3 **regulations** [14] - 220 :25, 221 :3, 221 :24 , 222 : 11 , 227 : 10 , 228:1, 228:3, 228 :4, 229 :6, 232 :25, 250 :2, 298 :20 , 302 :1, 309 :23 **regulatory** [6] - 208 :25, 227:7, 228:1, 229 :2, 236 :5, 308 :3 **reject** [1] - 207: 19 **relate** [1] - 185 :8 **related** [3] - 193 :24 , 218 : 18 , 313: 13 **Relating** [1] - 288:5 **relations** [2] - 239 :25, 256:2 **relative** [3] - 225 :25, 277 : 18 , 313: 15 **relevant** [1] - 238 :20 **reliance** [1] - 206:24 **relied** [1] - 206 : 12 **rely** [2] - 209 :25, 289 : 11 **remainder** [1] - 245 : 17 **remaining** [2] - 237 : 11 , 291 :9 **remains** [1] - 297 :5 **remarks** [2] - 290 : 16, 309 : 18 **remember** [4] - 184 :23 , 228:7, 309:5, 309 :21 **REMEMBERED** [1] - 174 : 16 **remind** [1] - 293 : 10 **remiss** [1] - 194 :4 **renewable** [1] - 194 :5 **repeat** [1] - 188:9 **repeated** [1] - 243 : 19 **replace** [1] - 215 :6 **replacing** [1] - 215:5 **replied** [1] - 195 :1 **report** [4] - 199 :9, 199 : 19 , 250: 11 , 299 :3 **REPORTER** [37] - 183 :20 , 184: 12 , 187 :24 , 188:3, 190 : 13 , 190: 19 , 193 :2, 193 :8, 193 : 12 , 193 : 14 , 197: 19 , 197 :22 , 202 :5, 205:5, 205 :9, 207 : 10 , 210 :22 , 212 :9, 212 : 12 , 214:22 , 214 :25, 216:22 , 217 :1, 245 :5, 245 :9, 247 : 10 , 247: 16 , 247 : 19 , 249: 14 , 249 : 17 , 251 : 13 , 251 : 17 , 255:23 , 258 : 14 , 258: 18 , 258 :22 , 268:5 **reporter** [1] - 275: 18 **Reporters** [1] - 181 : 19 **represent** [2] - 188 :5, 218 : 12 **Representative** [1] - 189 :21 **representative** [6] - 187 :4, 188 :4, 284 : 10 , 284 : 12 , 284: 15, 299 :22 **representatives** [1] - 270 :8 **represented** [3] - 218 : 15, 218: 18 , 242 : 18 **representing** [2] - 182 : 12 , 245: 15 **request** [4] - 206 :21 , 231 :6, 245 :25, 293: 18 **require** [4] - 210:8, 224 : 19 , 291 :2, 293:6 **required** [4] - 223 : 16 , 237:21 , 296 :6, 307 :20 **requirement** [2] - 189 :4, 206 :7 **requirements** [7] - 194 :6, 206 :1, 236 :5, 274 :21 , 293: 14 , 296 :5, 298 :23 **requires** [5] - 200 :7, 215 :24 , 222 :2, 228:5, 263 :8 **requiring** [1] - 207 :22 **research** [2] - 199 : 16 , 277:2 **reserves** [1] - 260 : 15 **resident** [3] - 184 :20 , 188 :7, 250 : 14 **residential** [2] - 195 : 17 , 209:8 **residents** [ 11 ] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 20

194 : 18 , 198:3, 200 : 14 , 200: 17 , 200 : 18 , 200:20 , 201 : 10 , 209:20 , 226 :1, 250 :23 , 251 :2 **resolution** [1] - 246 :1 **resource** [1] - 260 : 15 **resources** [4] - 210 :1, 239 :24 , 253 :25, 303:1 **respect** [ 10] - 218: 14, 269 : 16 , 272 :4, 272 : 10 , 272 : 16 , 272 :22 , 273:4, 273 : 11 , 275:6, 286: 24 **respectfully** [4] - 245 : 11 , 246: 15, 247 :2, 293 : 18 **respiratory** [3] - 200 : 14 , 200: 16 , 200 :20 **responding** [1] - 312 :5 **responds** [1] - 199 :4 **response** [5] - 198:2, 200 :3, 200 :4, 231 :24 , 311 :2 **Response** [1] - 288 :4 **responses** [3] - 231 :25, 308: 11 , 312 : 16 **responsibility** [1] - 249 :23 **responsible** [2] - 250 : 17 , 253:21 **rest** [4] - 200 : 17 , 225 : 15, 253: 11 , 260 :7 **restrictions** [3] - 257 :4, 257 :8, 257 : 16 **resubmit** [1] - 230 : 24 **result** [3] - 224: 10, 241 : 11 , 263:4 **resulted** [4] - 209 : 14 , 223 :23 , 243:21 , 263 : 16 **resulting** [1] - 209 : 15 **results** [1] - 304 : 12 **retains** [1] - 222 :8 **retention** [1] - 245 : 19 **retired** [3] - 191 :8, 215 : 17 , 252 :1 **retiree** [1] - 190 :23 **retirees** [1] - 266: 20 **retiring** [1] - 265 :8 **retrofit** [8] - 226:3, 234 :8, 238 : 10 , 238 : 11 , 238: 15, 281 :9, 282 :4, 309 :20**Retrofit** [4] - 205 :25,

206 :2, 220 : 15, 241 : 17 **retrofits** [1] - 230 : 12 **return** [4] - 198 : 15, 199 :3, 241 :2, 289 : 19 **revealing** [1] - 221 : 13 **revenues** [1] - 263 : 17 **review** [6] - 181 :21 , 217 : 15, 234:7, 239 : 15, 270:5, 279:5 **reviewed** [1] - 279:4 **reviewing** [1] - 270 : 10 **revise** [1] - 230 :24 **revised** [1] - 208 : 18 **revisions** [10] - 181 :4, 207 : 19 , 208 : 12 , 209:6, 217 : 18 , 234: 24 , 259 : 12 , 264: 14 , 290 :5, 293 : 12 **REVISIONS** [1] - 174 :4 **revisit** [2] - 235 :3, 237 : 21 **rhetoric** [1] - 301 :2 **RICHARD** [1] - 176:3 **Richmond** [1] - 218 :7 **Rick** [1] - 182 :2 **rights** [4] - 201 :2, 201 :5, 204 : 10 , 248: 15 **Rights** [1] - 200 :6 **Rio** [1] - 198:3 **rippling** [1] - 263 :2 **risk** [2] - 200:2, 229 : 16 **riverwalk** [1] - 184 :3 **riverwalks** [1] - 250 :7 **road** [1] - 234 :24 **rock** [1] - 184: 24 **Rock** [7] - 197 :25, 198 :9, 198 : 14 , 199 : 11 , 199: 25, 200 : 25, 201 :9 **RO GERS**  [5] - 178 : 14 , 247:9, 247 : 12 , 247: 18 , 247 : 20 **Rogers** [3] - 247:9, 247 : 18 , 249:6 **rooftop** [1] - 203 : 19 **Room** [1] - 174: 18 **room** [1] - 192 : 18 **RO SE**  [6] - 176: 15, 182 : 11 , 226: 25, 244 :8, 289 :7, 300 :6 **rose** [6] - 182 : 10 , 226 :24 , 244:7, 288 : 12 , 289:4, 289:21 **Rose** [2] - 182 : 11 , 300 :5 **rounds** [1] - 277:23 **royalties** [5] - 214 :2, 242 :25, 243:7, 243 : 10 , 253: 17 **royalty** [1] - 263: 17 **Roybal** [13] - 178 :5, 178 :7, 178 : 11 , 182 : 14 , 182 : 17 , 216 :7, 216 : 11 , 233 :22 , 240: 17 , 289 :4, 289 :21 , 298 : 12 , 300:4 **RO YBAL**  [20] - 176 :9, 182 : 15, 216:9, 217 :8, 218 :21 , 219:1, 219 :4, 219 : 10 , 226 : 16 , 233:23 , 234 :2, 234 : 14 , 239:4, 239 : 10 , 240:6, 240 : 14 , 243:25, 244 : 15, 289:6, 298: 13 **Rudy** [1] - 268 :7 **RUDY** [2] - 179:4, 268 :1 **rule** [1] - 232 :8 **Rule** [3] - 207 :20 , 263 : 11 , 264: 18 **rulemaking** [3] - 263 : 15, 263:24 , 293 : 12 **rules** [4] - 257:4, 310 :1, 310 :24 , 311 :5 **run** [1] - 280 : 13 **Runnels** [1] - 175:4 **Running** [2] - 240 :20 , 240:21 **Ryan** [5] - 227 :5, 275 : 14 , 276:7, 287:3, 292 :9 **RYAN** [32] - 175: 10, 187 : 15, 227:6, 228 :22 , 229:1, 229 : 19 , 230: 19 , 231 : 15, 236:22 , 237 : 16 , 275: 15, 276 :8, 278 :2, 278 : 10 , 278 : 15, 278: 19 , 279 :6, 279 :22 , 280 : 19 , 282 :2, 282 : 15, 282 :22 , 283 :8, 283 : 11 , 283 : 14 , 283: 17 , 283 :20 , 283:22 , 284 :23 , 286: 12 , 300 : 18 , 312 : 14 

## S

**S-H-A-R-E-R** [1] - 184 : 15 **sacred** [1] - 252 :24 **sacrifice** [1] - 265: 18 **saleable** [1] - 260 : 14 **Salt** [3] - 240 : 19 , 240 :21 **San** [ 113] - 174 : 18 , 176 :8, 180 :8, 182 : 17 , 182 :25, 185: 12 , 185 : 18 , 185:24 , 188 :20 , 190:23 , 193 :22 , 196: 16 , 196 :20 , 196:21 , 197 : 12 , 199:8, 199 : 12 , 201 : 19 , 205 : 14 , 206:6, 206:8, 206 : 13 , 206: 17 , 206 : 18 , 206:22 , 207 :22 , 207:25, 208 :6, 208 :7, 208 :23 , 209 : 11 , 209:22 , 210 :9, 212 : 15, 213:1, 213 : 14 , 213: 19 , 213 :20 , 214:2, 214 : 16 , 216:7, 216 : 11 , 216: 13 , 216 : 15, 216: 19 , 217 : 14 , 219: 12 , 219 : 14 , 226:4, 226 : 12 , 227: 17 , 235 :3, 235 : 12 , 241 :1, 241 :4, 241 :9, 241 : 12 , 241 : 15, 241 :21 , 241 :23 , 242 :1, 242 : 11 , 242 : 15, 242 :20 , 243:4, 243:6, 243 : 15, 243: 17 , 244 : 16 , 245: 13 , 245 : 15, 245: 17 , 245 :23 , 247:25, 249 :24 , 250:9, 252 : 15, 261 :6, 261 :7, 261 : 10 , 261 : 11 , 261 : 16 , 262 :3, 262 :6, 262 : 10 , 262 : 15, 263 :7, 263 : 10 , 263 : 19 , 263:22 , 264 :3, 267 : 14 , 268 :20 , 269:2, 273:2, 273 : 19 , 276: 11 , 278 :1, 283 :6, 283 : 12 , 285 :6, 288 : 15, 289:6, 294 : 16 , 296:3, 296:6, 297 :3, 297 : 19 , 298: 16 **SAN** [1] - 180:3 **Santa** [6] - 175:5, 175 : 13 , 175:20 , 176 : 17 , 181 :9, 276: 11 **satisfied** [1] - 296 :5 **satisfy** [2] - 233:4, 293 : 14 **saving** [1] - 246: 13 **saw** [6] - 185 : 11 , 185 : 12 , 254:4, 276 : 14 , 286:25, 287 :6 **scenario** [3] - 257 : 16 , 284: 19 **scenarios** [2] - 284 :8, 284 : 18 **scenic** [1] - 259 :25 **scheduling** [2] - 263 :5, 263 :7 **Schlenker** [1] - 182 :20 **Schlenker****** **Goodrich** [1] - 182 :20 **scholarships** [2] - 253 : 16 , 262 : 12 **School** [3] - 184 :24 , 185 :2, 252 : 18 **school** [4] - 252 :2, 252 :5, 252 : 11 , 257: 13 **schools** [1] - 195 :20 **science** [3] - 218 :7, 220 :1, 242 :6 **scientist** [1] - 276 :25 **SCR** [24] - 207:22, 207 :25, 208: 15, 209 :9, 223 : 16 , 224 : 12 , 228: 11 , 228 :20 , 229: 11 , 233 : 19 , 237: 18 , 263 :8, 284 :9, 292 :20 , 295 : 11 , 296: 15, 296 :23 , 296:25, 297 :8, 297 : 11 , 297 : 12 , 297: 14 , 297 :20 , 304: 14 **screen** [1] - 285 : 18 **search** [1] - 305 :23 **second** [8] - 192 :24, 223 : 12 , 223: 13 , 240 :21 , 248: 13 , 299 : 16 , 312 : 14 **second -** **guess** [2] - 223 : 12 , 223: 13 **secret** [1] - 224 : 11 **Section** [1] - 293 : 13 **sector** [1] - 245:23 **sectors** [1] - 218 : 13 **secure** [1] - 222 :1 **see** [31 ] - 181 :23, 184 :23 , 185:1, 191 :22 , 192 : 15, 198 : 18 , 215: 17 , 218 : 10 , 224:22 , 247 :25, 248:1, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 21

254 : 10 , 254: 13 , 266 :22 , 267:22 , 268 :20 , 273:5, 273 :23 , 273:24 , 279 : 19 , 282 : 19 , 282 :25, 287: 14 , 287 : 16 , 296:22 , 299 : 10 , 305:4, 305:5, 305 :24 , 307:1 **seeing** [2] - 276: 18, 304 : 18 **seem** [5] - 246 : 18 , 246 : 19 , 257:8, 304:6, 304 : 13 **seemingly** [1] - 276 : 12 **selected** [3] - 220 : 19 , 233:3, 238: 24 **selective** [1] - 206 :1 **selects** [1] - 229 : 11 **sell** [1] - 260 :22 **sells** [1] - 241 :9 **senator** [2] - 184 : 15, 194 :23 **Senator** [2] - 184 : 19 , 187 : 16 **senators** [2] - 248 :21 , 249:2 **send** [2] - 195 :25, 256 : 19 **sense** [2] - 273:7, 311 : 19 **sensitive** [2] - 214 :9, 309 : 17 **sent** [1] - 187 :5 **separate** [1] - 301 :23 **series** [2] - 225 : 18 , 228 :2 **serious** [1] - 198 :21 **serve** [1] - 212 :21 **served** [2] - 212 : 18 , 255 : 12 **service** [1] - 241 : 10 **SERVICE** [1] - 180 :6 **Service** [ 10] - 176 :2, 176 :2, 182 :3, 199 :24 , 225 :20 , 245: 14 , 284 :4, 285 : 19 , 288:4, 294 : 13 **services** [6] - 196: 24, 214 :4, 243 :3, 260 : 10 , 260 : 12 , 260: 13 **serving** [1] - 246 :6 **set** [7] - 194: 11 , 202 : 12 , 232 : 12 , 281 :4, 296 :1, 301 : 17 , 301 : 18 **sets** [1] - 281 :6 **settlement** [1] - 231 : 12**seven** [3] - 195 :9,

195 : 18 , 199: 16 **sever** [1] - 229 : 15 **several** [6] - 190 :24 , 219 : 20 , 242 :2, 249 : 22 , 300: 18 , 308 :9 **severe** [1] - 307 :6 **shaky** [1] - 219 :24 **shames** [1] - 201 :8 **share** [1] - 212 :23 **Shareholders** [1] - 212 : 22 **SHARER** [4] - 177:4, 183 : 18 , 184:8, 184: 14 **Sharer** [4] - 184 : 14 , 184 : 19 , 187: 16 , 192 :7 **shed** [1] - 208 :24 **sheep** [1] - 253 :3 **sheets** [2] - 201 :21 , 201 : 22 **shining** [1] - 257:23 **Shiprock** [ 10] - 184 : 24 , 185:1, 198 : 18 , 198: 22 , 199 : 23 , 200: 13 , 200 : 14 , 200: 18 , 201 : 11 , 256:7 **short** [4] - 186 :21 , 215 :1, 224 :8, 274 : 11 **shortchanges** [1] - 272 : 13 **shorthand** [1] - 313 : 10 **shortly** [1] - 272 :22 **shot** [2] - 225: 17, 271 : 18 **show** [2] - 184 :1, 285 : 14 **shut** [5] - 186: 12, 186 : 13 , 224: 13 , 254 : 17 , 257: 17 **side** [3] - 194 : 22 , 256 : 18 , 263: 14 **sides** [3] - 192 :3, 311 : 22 , 311 : 23 **sign** [3] - 201 : 20 , 201 : 21 , 201 : 22 **sign -** **in** [2] - 201 :21 , 201 : 22 **signed** [1] - 246:1 **significance** [2] - 273 : 10 , 295: 25 **significant** [ 12] - 188 : 15, 189:5, 241 : 11 , 242 : 16 , 250 : 25, 262 :8, 262 : 25, 263: 17 , 270 :4, 274 :2, 304 : 12 , 305 : 11 **significantly** [4] - 208 : 14 , 209: 19 , 213 :2, 216 :2 **silver** [1] - 306 :4 **similar** [2] - 263 : 15, 284 : 14 **similarities** [1] - 284 : 16 **simply** [3] - 197 :6, 215 :22 , 220:5 **simultaneous** [1] - 312 : 16 **simultaneously** [1] - 222 : 19 **single** [2] - 223:4, 304 : 17 **SIP** [42] - 187:2, 219 :24 , 222 :9, 228:8, 229 : 10 , 229: 14 , 229 :20 , 230:3, 230 :21 , 230:24 , 231 : 14 , 231 : 18 , 231 :20 , 232 : 12 , 233 : 12 , 234:24 , 237 :21 , 245:25, 247 :3, 259 : 14 , 271 :22 , 272 :7, 274:5, 274 :24 , 279:9, 282 :7, 284 : 14 , 293: 13 , 293 : 19 , 298:8, 301 :21 , 303: 19 , 304 : 16 , 304: 18 , 304 :21 , 305: 16 , 310 :25, 311 :6, 311 : 14 , 312 : 10 , 312 : 18 , 312 :20 **SIPs** [5] - 227 : 13 , 228 :22 , 233:9, 233 : 13 , 235:9 **site** [5] - 195 :25, 222 :21 , 224:3, 284:4, 285 :20 **site -** **specific** [2] - 222 :21 , 224:3 **sites** [2] - 211 : 10 , 257 :2 **situated** [1] - 261 : 13 **situation** [6] - 199 :24 , 213: 12 , 248 : 15, 281 :24 , 309 :23 , 310:3 **six** [1] - 200 : 15 **sixteen** [1] - 197:2 **size** [2] - 225:22, 227 : 14 **sizes** [1] - 277 :21 **SJCC** [2] - 219 :9, 240 : 13 **SJEDS** [1] - 246 :7 **SJGS** [1] - 180 :9 **skilled** [2] - 252 :7, 252 : 11 **sledgehammer** [1] - 211 : 17 **slice** [1] - 306:4 **slightly** [1] - 305 :7 **small** [4] - 212 : 17 , 230 :1, 251 :24 , 296:9 **SNCR** [23] - 208: 17, 230 : 15, 233:9, 237 : 19 , 264: 16 , 279 : 13 , 282 :20 , 283 :2, 283 :9, 284 :9, 286 :3, 292 :20 , 293:7, 295 : 12 , 295: 18 , 295 :23 , 296:3, 296 :25, 297:20 , 304 :4, 304 : 13 , 304 : 14 , 305: 16 **so -** **called** [1] - 224 : 14 **SO 2**  [4] - 188 :22 , 195 :7, 230 :7, 274 : 15 **social** [1] - 302 :4 **society** [4] - 203 :25, 204 : 18 , 303: 17 **socioeconomic** [3] - 241 :24 , 309:9, 309: 14 **software** [1] - 284 : 13 **solar** [3] - 203:20, 215 : 13 , 215: 15 **sole** [1] - 224 :25 **solid** [1] - 294 : 19 **solo** [1] - 218 :3 **solutions** [1] - 204 : 15 **solve** [1] - 192 :1 **someone** [2] - 199 :3, 299 :4 **sometime** [2] - 262 :20 , 274: 17 **somewhat** [3] - 196 : 13 , 306: 15, 307 :8 **soon** [1] - 206 :20 **sooner** [1] - 250 :5 **sorry** [3] - 237 : 16 , 258 :8, 277 :5 **sort** [1] - 266 : 18 **sorting** [1] - 308:5 **sought** [1] - 204 : 14 **sounding** [1] - 229 : 17 **source** [ 10] - 215: 15, 219 :20 , 220:20 , 224 :3, 225 :25, 232 :9, 232 : 10 , 234:7, 248 : 11 , 291 : 10 **Source** [1] - 237:3 **source -** **specific** [3] - 219 :20 , 224:3, 225:25 **sources** [8] - 208 :24 , 225 :21 , 234:9, 261 :22 , 261 :23 , 264 : 11 , 302 :5, 302 :8 **south** [1] - 215 :9 **Southeast** [1] - 218 : 16 **Southwest** [1] - 208 :9 **Southwestern** [1] - 176 :2 **sovereign** [2] - 208 : 11 , 261 :5 **span** [1] - 306 :22 **SPEAKER** [2] - 189 :24 , 190:7 **speakers** [1] - 202 : 12 **speaking** [2] - 201 : 10 , 286:7 **specific** [ 18] - 219 :20 , 220:20 , 220 :21 , 222 : 13 , 222 : 18 , 222 :21 , 224 :3, 225 :25, 226:2, 262 : 14 , 277: 12 , 282 : 12 , 284:5, 284:6, 297 : 10 , 299: 19 , 306 :1 **specifically** [8] - 227 : 16 , 260:21 , 264 :5, 277 : 15, 287 : 17 , 299:6, 301 : 18 , 302 :23 **specifics** [1] - 277 :9 **spell** [ 19] - 184 : 12 , 187 :24 , 190: 19 , 193 :8, 193 : 12 , 197 : 19 , 202 :5, 205:5, 207 : 10 , 210:22 , 212 :9, 214 :22 , 245:5, 247 : 16 , 249: 14 , 251 : 13 , 255:23 , 258 : 14 , 268:5 **spend** [7] - 188 : 17 , 191 : 10 , 285: 11 , 296 :8, 304 : 17 , 304 : 19 , 305: 10 **spending** [6] - 188 : 17 , 189:6, 189:9, 211 : 19 , 303: 15, 305 : 15 **spent** [4] - 202 : 18 , 224 :23 , 243:2, 285:9 **spot** [1] - 244:23 **Springs** [1] - 198:3 **square** [1] - 259 :22 **ss** [1] - 313:2 **St** [2] - 175 :4, 175 : 19 **stack** [2] - 287 : 15, 304 : 18 **stacks** [1] - 287: 16 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 22

**staff** [1] - 228:3 **staggering** [1] - 213 : 13 **stakeholder** [1] - 241 : 12 **stakeholders** [1] - 264 :8 **stamps** [1] - 191 : 12 **stand** [4] - 191 : 11 , 196 : 11 , 218:25, 238 :23 **standard** [3] - 189 : 11 , 208:21 , 296 :1 **standardized** [2] - 281 :4, 281 : 11 **standards** [4] - 194 : 12 , 293:7, 311 :8, 311 :9 **Standards** [3] - 237 :3, 293 :4, 311 :7 **standing** [2] - 200 :24 , 202 : 13 **standpoint** [1] - 196 :5 **stands** [1] - 234 :8 **start** [4] - 229 :4, 290 :9, 300 : 17 **started** [5] - 231 :7, 242 :4, 247 :21 , 276 : 15, 304: 15 **State** [35] - 181 :5, 185 :25, 195: 11 , 196 :3, 199 :22 , 205 :24 , 207:20 , 208 : 13 , 208: 18 , 214 :7, 214 :22 , 222 : 18 , 222 :20 , 231 :4, 231 : 11 , 241 :22 , 241 :25, 250 : 11 , 251 :1, 251 : 13 , 251 : 19 , 253 : 18 , 256:5, 257 :25, 259: 13 , 264 : 14 , 265:9, 272 :20 , 290:5, 290 :25, 296:1, 298:3, 298 :5, 303 :4, 310 :20 **state** [77] - 183 :21 , 184 : 12 , 184: 15, 186 :7, 186 :9, 187 :24 , 188 :4, 190 : 19 , 191 : 11 , 192 : 17 , 193 :8, 194 :6, 195 :5, 196 :2, 196 : 19 , 197 : 19 , 198:23 , 202 :5, 205 :5, 206 : 14 , 207 : 10 , 208:25, 210 :22 , 212 :9, 215 :21 , 219: 14 , 219 : 18 , 219: 19 ,222 :8, 223 :9, 223 : 12 ,

227 : 10 , 228: 19 , 229 : 18 , 230:2, 230 : 23 , 231 : 13 , 232 : 12 , 233:2, 237:6, 241 :5, 242 : 17 , 242 : 24 , 243:1, 243:7, 243 :8, 245 :5, 245 :25, 247 : 16 , 249: 14 , 250 : 22 , 251 :3, 254 : 18 , 255: 23 , 258 : 14 , 268:5, 273 : 16 , 274: 24 , 285 : 25, 291 : 15, 292 :2, 292 :3, 293 :5, 299 : 11 , 300: 25, 301 :6, 301 :8, 302 :24 , 303 :8, 304 : 25, 306:1, 306 :8, 306 : 11 , 307:5, 308 : 12 , 310: 24 , 312 :8 **STATE** [3] - 174 :1, 174 :4, 313 :1 **state 's**  [22] - 193 :24 , 194 : 13 , 195:4, 195:8, 195 : 18 , 197:5, 213:9, 213 : 18 , 225: 12 , 226 : 13 , 232 : 16 , 248 : 15, 275:6, 292 : 20 , 293:9, 306 : 14 , 307: 18 , 308 :8, 308 : 10 , 308 : 16 , 308: 19 , 311 : 14 **state -** **specific** [1] - 306 :1 **statement** [6] - 187 :4, 193 : 17 , 201 : 17 , 207: 15, 223 : 18 , 293: 21 **statements** [3] - 220 :5, 221 : 19 , 221 :23 **states** [ 14] - 205: 17, 221 : 17 , 223:6, 227 : 13 , 227: 19 , 227 : 22 , 228:6, 228 : 10 , 228: 16 , 231 :5, 233 : 10 , 259 : 24 , 297: 10 , 306 : 11 **States** [13] - 199 : 10 , 199 : 21 , 200:6, 218 : 17 , 221 : 25, 222 :3, 222 : 25, 223:2, 250 : 13 , 254: 23 , 255 : 11 , 260:7, 309: 11 **States '**  [1] - 222 :5 **stating** [1] - 245 :25 **Station** [53] - 180 :9, 188 : 21 , 190: 24 , 196 : 16 , 199:8, 206:6, 206 :8, 206 : 14 , 206 : 19 , 206:23 , 207 :22 , 208:1, 208:7, 208 :23 , 209: 12 , 209 :22 , 210:9, 212 : 16 , 213:1, 213 : 15, 213: 19 , 219 : 15, 227: 17 , 235 :4, 235 : 12 , 241 : 10 , 241 : 13 , 241 : 16 , 241 :21 , 241 :23 , 247:25, 249 :24 , 250:9, 260 :20 , 260:25, 261 :6, 261 : 16 , 262 :3, 262 :6, 262 : 11 , 262 : 16 , 263:8, 263 : 10 , 263: 13 , 263 : 19 , 263:23 , 264 :3, 273 :3, 273 :20 , 283 :7, 288 : 15, 294: 16 **station** [2] - 196 : 18 , 273 :5 **status** [2] - 194 : 18 , 309 :9 **statute** [6] - 219 :21 , 221 :3, 221 :7, 228 :5, 229 :4, 232 :22 **statutory** [8] - 221 :6, 221 :9, 223 :24 , 225:8, 225 :24 , 226:6, 236:4, 295 : 14 **stay** [3] - 252 : 12 , 254 :20 , 310:21 **staying** [1] - 311 : 13 **step** [8] - 206 :7, 230 :9, 230 : 13 , 230 : 15, 231 :9, 231 :24 , 249:3 **step -** **by -** **step** [1] - 231 :24 **STEPHEN** [1] - 175 : 11 **stepping** [1] - 248:23 **steps** [4] - 225 : 19 , 281 :24 , 303: 18 , 303 :21 **stewards** [1] - 253 :21 **stick** [2] - 236 : 12 , 248 : 17 **still** [5] - 187 :1, 263 :20 , 272 :9, 275 :25, 297:5 **stimulus** [1] - 307: 10 **stop** [3] - 224: 19, 229 :4 **strain** [1] - 195:21 **strata** [1] - 309: 14 **STRATVERT** [1] - 176 :4 **Street** [1] - 185 :2 **Strickler** [1] - 187:4 **strictly** [1] - 222 :22 **strike** [1] - 222 :20 **strikes** [1] - 195 : 14 **stringent** [2] - 210 :8, 263 :5 **strive** [2] - 243: 13, 250 : 16 **strong** [1] - 228 : 10 **strongly** [5] - 197 :5, 213 :9, 214 :7, 219 : 13 , 226 : 12 **struggle** [1] - 192 : 16 **struggling** [3] - 213 :7, 250 :21 , 251 :3 **students** [2] - 252 :4, 252 :7 **studies** [2] - 264:6, 277 :24 **study** [5] - 194 :21 , 194 :24 , 209: 10 , 266 :1, 275 :5 **stuff** [4] - 192 :8, 257 : 13 , 281 :20 , 281 :22 **subcontractors** [1] - 261 :9 **subject** [1] - 181 : 15 **subjects** [1] - 302 :5 **submit** [3] - 231 :8, 269 : 15, 304:21 **submitted** [6] - 231 : 18 , 273:1, 273:6, 274 : 19 , 282 :6, 297:25 **submitting** [1] - 231 :5 **subsequent** [1] - 263 :2 **subsidiary** [1] - 241 :1 **substance** [2] - 298 : 19 , 299:5 **substandard** [1] - 260 :6 **substantial** [2] - 261 :2, 293 : 16 **substantive** [1] - 231 :23 **substantively** [1] - 224 :2 **succeed** [1] - 251 :3 **suffered** [1] - 266 : 16 **sufficient** [2] - 205 :22 , 269:20 **suggest** [1] - 304:4 **suggested** [1] - 275 :6 **Suite** [3] - 175: 19, 176 :5, 176 : 11 **sulfates** [2] - 277:20, 279 : 17 **sulfur** [1] - 213:3 **summaries** [1] - 308 :6 **summarize** [3] - 219 :2, 219 : 11 , 240: 15 **summary** [1] - 270:7 **summer** [4] - 208 :22 , 253 :4, 253 : 16 , 262 :20 **sun 's**  [1] - 257 :23 **superintendent** [1] - 239 :25 **supervision** [1] - 240 :1 **supplies** [5] - 196 : 17 , 196:22 , 213 :20 , 214:3, 243:3 **supplying** [2] - 261 :7, 261 : 18 **support** [22] - 186 :8, 193 :25, 195: 13 , 195 : 16 , 207:21 , 228 : 12 , 234: 11 , 241 : 14 , 245:25, 246 :2, 247 :3, 249 :3, 254 : 14 , 259: 15, 299 :20 , 303:4, 305 : 16 , 307: 18 , 307 :23 , 310: 10 , 311 : 17 , 311 :21 **supported** [1] - 220 :7 **supporting** [2] - 246 :3, 293 : 17 **supportive** [2] - 259 : 12 , 264: 13 **supposed** [5] - 223 :8, 229 : 14 , 235 :20 , 264:3, 276:24 **supposing** [1] - 237 :24 **surface** [1] - 241 :7 **surrounding** [1] - 198 :22 **Survey** [1] - 199: 10 **sustainability** [3] - 210 :2, 241 : 12 , 261 :4 **sustainable** [1] - 243 : 12 **svigil @** **nmag .** **gov** [1] - 175: 14 **sw itch**  [1] - 185: 17 **sw orn**  [27] - 184 :9, 187 :21 , 190: 16 , 193 :5, 197 : 16 , 202 :2, 205 :2, 207 :7, 210 : 19 , 212 :6, 214 : 19 , 216 :24 , 217:5, 239:7, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 23

239 : 11 , 245:2, 247 : 13 , 249: 11 , 251 : 10 , 255:20 , 258 : 11 , 258: 13 , 259 :2, 265 :2, 268 :2, 276 :3, 313 :9 **symptom** [1] - 199:2 **system** [1] - 305 : 25 

## T

**T-A- Y** **-L-O-R** [1] - 188 :2 **tack** [1] - 211 : 18 **talkative** [1] - 300 : 20 **Talkers '**  [1] - 255 : 13 **taxes** [7] - 214 :1, 242 :24 , 243:1, 243:7, 243 :9, 243 : 10 , 253: 17 **taxpayers** [1] - 196 :21 **TAYLOR** [5] - 177:6, 187 :20 , 188:1, 188:4, 192 :23 **Taylor** [3] - 188 :1, 189 :21 , 192 :6 **technical** [21 ] - 181 :8, 181 : 10 , 182 :25, 183:8, 192 :8, 238 :3, 270 :4, 271 :5, 275 : 16 , 278:22 , 288 :6, 288 :23 , 288 :25, 292 : 10 , 293 : 13 , 299: 12 , 302 :6, 302 : 14 , 302 : 15, 308:1, 308:4 **technologies** [5] - 210 :8, 237 : 12 , 237 : 18 , 238:3, 296: 25 **Technology** [4] - 205 :25, 206:2, 220 : 15, 241 : 17 **technology** [35] - 207 :23 , 207:25, 208 : 15, 208: 17 , 209 :9, 213 : 10 , 220 : 14 , 220: 19 , 237 :22 , 278:4, 279:5, 279 :8, 279 : 13 , 279 : 14 , 279:20 , 280 :3, 282 :4, 282 :8, 283 :2, 284 :8, 291 : 11 , 295 :23 , 296: 15, 297 : 16 , 305: 17 , 305 :20 , 305:21 , 305 :23 , 306:25, 307 :1, 308 :4, 308 :22 , 309 :20 **technology -** **wise** [1]

- 308 :4**telephone** [1] -

260 : 12 **tem** [1] - 193: 22 **ten** [1] - 250:5 **tend** [2] - 265: 22, 294 :7 **Tennessee** [1] - 215 :2 **term** [5] - 202 : 16 , 203 : 14 , 204:3, 210:1, 278 : 23 **termed** [1] - 227: 14 **terminology** [2] - 220 : 17 , 234:8 **terms** [ 10] - 224 : 17 , 287 :5, 295 :8, 295 :25, 296 :5, 296 : 14 , 310 : 14 , 310: 22 , 311 : 13 **terrible** [1] - 229:3 **test** [1] - 228: 15 **testified** [25] - 184 : 10 , 187: 22 , 190 : 17 , 193:6, 197 : 17 , 202 :3, 205:3, 207 :8, 210 : 20 , 212 :7, 214 : 20 , 217:6, 225 : 17 , 239:8, 245:3, 247 : 14 , 249: 12 , 251 : 11 , 255: 21 , 259 :3, 265 :3, 268 :3, 276 :4, 291 :6, 291 : 17 **testimony** [45] - 181 :8, 181 : 10 , 181 : 14 , 182 : 25, 183 :9, 184 :6, 185 :7, 217 : 10 , 217: 13 , 217 : 16 , 217: 17 , 217 : 19 , 218: 22 , 219 :2, 219 : 11 , 219 : 12 , 221 : 22 , 234 :3, 234 : 23 , 239 : 12 , 239: 16 , 240 :7, 240 : 15, 240 : 25, 241 : 24 , 270 :5, 270 :7, 270 : 11 , 275 : 24 , 285:2, 286 : 16 , 288:6, 288 : 23 , 288: 25, 294 : 17 , 296: 16 , 298 : 18 , 300: 13 , 302 : 14 , 302 : 15, 306 :2, 310 : 14 , 313:8, 313 : 10 , 313: 11 **TESTIMONY** [ 19] - 184 : 11 , 187: 23 , 190 : 18 , 193:7, 197 : 18 , 202 :4, 205:4, 207 :9, 210 : 21 , 212 :8, 214 : 21 , 245:4, 247 : 15, 249: 13 , 251 : 12 , 255:22 , 259 :4, 265 :4, 268 :4 **Testimony** [21 ] - 177 :5, 177 :7, 177 :9, 177 : 11 , 177: 13 , 177 : 15, 177: 17 , 177 : 19 , 177:21 , 177 :23 , 177:25, 178 : 13 , 178: 15, 178 : 17 , 178: 19 , 178 :21 , 178:23 , 178 :25, 179:5, 180:4, 180 :5 **thankful** [2] - 252 : 14 , 252 : 16 **thanking** [1] - 294:4 **THE** [44] - 174 :1, 174 :4, 174 :4, 183 :20 , 184 : 12 , 187:24 , 188 :3, 190 : 13 , 190 : 19 , 193:2, 193:8, 193 : 12 , 193: 14 , 197 : 19 , 197:22 , 202 :5, 205 :5, 205 :9, 207 : 10 , 210:22 , 212 :9, 212 : 12 , 214 :22 , 214:25, 216 :22 , 217:1, 227:4, 235 : 16 , 245:5, 245:9, 247 : 10 , 247: 16 , 247 : 19 , 249: 14 , 249 : 17 , 251 : 13 , 251 : 17 , 255:23 , 258 : 14 , 258: 18 , 258 :22 , 268:5, 276:6 **Themig 's**  [2] - 285 :2, 296 : 16 **themselves** [1] - 192 :21 **theoretical** [1] - 309 :24 **they '** **ve** [6] - 191 :1, 257 :3, 281 :9, 306 : 17 , 306 : 18 , 311 : 18 **thinking** [3] - 204:3, 276 : 19 , 307:8 **third** [3] - 223 : 10 , 223 : 13 , 248:20 **Thomas** [1] - 188:1 **THOMAS** [3] - 177:6, 187 :20 , 188:2 **thorough** [1] - 231 :25 **thoughtful** [1] - 298 :1 **thoughts** [1] - 303 :25 **thousands** [1] - 253 :7 **threaten** [1] - 250 :22 **three** [ 13] - 188 : 19 , 196 :9, 205 : 17 , 215 : 10 , 215: 12 , 261 : 13 , 261 : 17 , 261 : 18 , 262 :23 , 263 :9, 280 : 14 , 281 :24 , 302 :6 **three -** **dimensional** [1] - 280: 14 **threshold** [1] - 305 : 13 **throughout** [3] - 218 : 17 , 245:23 , 254 :22 **throw** [3] - 191 : 15, 232 : 14 , 279:24 **thrust** [1] - 211 :6 **thumb** [2] - 211 : 18, 228 :9 **time -** **consuming** [1]

- 294 :9 **TI MO** **THY** [1] - 175 :9 **tipping** [2] - 292 :21 , 293 :8 **tips** [1] - 295: 11 **Ti tle**  [1] - 200 :5 **titled** [2] - 288 :4, 288 : 14 **TO** [1] - 174 :4 **today** [29] - 181 : 10, 181 : 13 , 181 : 17 , 182 :21 , 184: 19 , 185 :1, 185 : 13 , 187:5, 188 : 14 , 189:2, 193 :22 , 202 : 13 , 211 :3, 212 : 14 , 256:4, 271 :2, 276 :9, 291 :25, 293 :23 , 300: 14 , 302 :22 , 303:3, 303 :22 , 304:9, 306:3, 308 : 17 , 309:3, 310 : 10 , 311 :24 **today 's**  [1] - 205:21 **together** [5] - 232 :7, 246 : 12 , 246:21 , 246 :22 , 246:23 **Tom** [1] - 192 :6 **ton** [5] - 224 : 17 , 224 :20 , 224:25, 228 : 14 , 243:1 **tons** [1] - 296: 12 **took** [2] - 253:1, 281 : 19 **top** [3] - 185 :1, 247 :24 , 305:4 **topography** [1] - 284 : 16 **total** [2] - 242 : 12, 243 :5 **totally** [1] - 191 :2 **tough** [2] - 273: 14, 275 :1 **tourism** [1] - 209:25 **toward** [4] - 220:25, 256 :24 , 257:20 , 306 :7 **Townsend** [1] - 181 : 18 **trading** [1] - 230:8 **tradition** [1] - 200 :22 **train** [1] - 267 : 17 **transcribed** [1] - 181 : 18 **TRANSCRIPT** [1] - 174 : 14 **transcript** [3] - 181 :20 , 313:9, 313: 11 **transition** [2] - 203 : 18 , 267: 13 **transport** [4] - 272 :23 , 274:7, 274 :22 , 274:24 **transportation** [1] - 218 : 13 **travel** [2] - 183:24, 254 :22 **treatment** [1] - 200 : 16 **tremendous** [4] - 204 :3, 209 :24 , 295:7, 308 :2 **tremendously** [1] - 189 : 10 **Tribal** [1] - 256 :9 **tribal** [7] - 205: 17, 214 :1, 242 :24 , 243:7, 261 : 12 , 261 : 19 , 262 :5 **tribe** [1] - 254 :1 **tribes** [2] - 208: 11 , 253 : 19 **tried** [1] - 227 : 19 **triple** [1] - 215: 18 **troubling** [1] - 213 :6 **true** [2] - 280 :5, 313 : 11 **trust** [1] - 262 :5 **trying** [5] - 229:21 , 229 :23 , 246: 12 , 255 : 10 , 286:9 **Tucson** [1] - 256: 10 **turn** [5] - 186 : 15, 216 :7, 263 : 16 , 300 : 10 , 312 :23 **turnarounds** [1] - 268 : 15 **twice** [3] - 200 : 16 , 203 :20 , 309: 11 **two** [23] - 192 :3, 192 :24 , 196:21 , 200 : 12 , 213:5, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 24

215 : 10 , 215: 12 , 216 : 19 , 231 :7, 243:3, 248 :5, 248 :21 , 260 : 18 , 260:20 , 262 : 18 , 262 :24 , 273 :2, 280 :9, 292 : 12 , 292 : 17 , 302 :4, 306: 20 **two -** **year** [1] - 231 :7 **type** [6] - 236 :8, 253 :22 , 282 :23 , 282 :24 , 287: 14 , 291 :3 **types** [2] - 296 :5, 311 :9 **typically** [4] - 224: 18, 281 :4, 287 : 13 , 304: 16 

## U

**Uhl** [1] - 225: 17 **ultimate** [1] - 292 :8 **ultimately** [2] - 214 : 10 , 292 :5 **um -** **hum** [1] - 283 : 20 **unanimous** [1] - 312 : 17 **uncontrolled** [1] - 283 :6 **under** [21 ] - 181 : 14 , 190 :3, 194 :22 , 196 : 12 , 200:5, 200 : 14 , 215:3, 222 :6, 223 :5, 229 :22 , 232 : 11 , 275:25, 291 : 14 , 291 :24 , 291 :25, 292 :6, 295 : 15, 301 :21 , 302 :1, 302 : 13 **underground** [2] - 241 :5, 249 :21 **undue** [1] - 250 :21 **unemployed** [1] - 260 :4 **unemployment** [1] - 242 :22 **unequivocally** [1] - 248 : 10 **unfortunately** [1] - 221 : 15 **UNIDENTIFIED** [2] - 189 :24 , 190:7 **Union** [4] - 240 :3, 242 : 18 , 249:20 , 256 :21 **union** [1] - 268 :9 **unit** [3] - 240:2, 242 : 17 , 297: 13 **United** [ 13] - 199: 10 , 199 :21 , 200:6, 201 :1, 218 : 17 , 243: 15,243 : 18 , 250: 13 ,

254 : 23 , 255:1, 255 : 11 , 260:7, 309: 10 **units** [6] - 215 :4, 215 :5, 215 : 25, 247 : 24 , 263:8, 264: 16 **University** [4] - 218 :6, 218 :8, 242 :7, 265 :9 **unquantifiable** [1] - 266 : 18 **unreasonable** [1] - 306 :2 **unregulated** [1] - 255 :7 **up** [47] - 184 :1, 184 : 21 , 185:5, 192 : 14 , 192 : 17 , 199 : 13 , 199: 23 , 202 : 12 , 205: 22 , 206 :7, 211 :5, 211 : 13 , 223 : 10 , 223: 12 , 228 : 13 , 230:3, 232 :5, 232 : 17 , 233: 14 , 234 : 19 , 236: 22 , 237 : 17 , 247:5, 247 : 24 , 252 : 24 , 269 :8, 270 : 11 , 270 : 13 , 276:9, 276 : 18 , 277:2, 277 : 14 , 278: 11 , 278 : 21 , 282 :3, 284 : 21 , 286: 21 , 286 : 25, 287: 16 , 293 :9, 306 : 25, 307 : 11 , 310: 10 , 310 : 24 , 311 :4, 311 : 19 , 312 :1 **up -** **and -** **coming** [1] - 237 : 17 **upgrade** [1] - 191 :7 **upgraded** [3] - 213 :1, 213 :6, 266 : 11 **upgrades** [3] - 190 : 25, 285:6, 285:8 **urge** [5] - 210 : 10 , 213 :9, 214 :7, 256 :4, 298 :7 **urges** [2] - 207: 18, 210 :7 **US** [6] - 194 : 22 , 241 : 19 , 252 : 25, 255 : 12 , 260:3, 309:6 **useful** [2] - 237 : 11 , 291 :9 **USEPA** [6] - 262 :2, 262 : 17 , 262 : 19 , 263 : 15, 263: 24 , 264 :5 **USEPA 's**  [2] - 262 :2, 263 :6 **user** [1] - 215:7 **uses** [2] - 224 : 18 , 309 :2 **USGS** [1] - 199: 19 **usual** [1] - 181 :24 **Utah** [3] - 256: 14, 259 :23 , 268: 18 **Ute** [1] - 198 : 19 **Utility** [3] - 212 : 19 , 212 :22 , 256:9 **utility** [2] - 218 : 16 , 256 :8 **utilizing** [1] - 251 :1 **utmost** [1] - 225 :1 

## V

**vacuum** [2] - 225: 12 , 311 :6 **valid** [1] - 290 : 18 **Valley** [1] - 215:2 **valuable** [1] - 260 : 14 **value** [3] - 278 :25, 302 :5, 303 :1 **values** [1] - 279:2 **Vanna** [1] - 285 : 17 **variables** [5] - 277 :3, 277 : 17 , 278:6, 279 : 10 , 279: 16 **variety** [1] - 225 :21 **various** [9] - 222 : 19 , 277 :21 , 277:23 , 279 :3, 284 :7, 284 : 17 , 296 : 18 , 296:20 , 298 :4 **varying** [1] - 261 :24 **Veatch** [7] - 233 : 15, 270 :9, 271 : 14 , 273:7, 275 :23 , 280:22 , 287 :21 **venture** [1] - 238:2 **verbiage** [1] - 304 :20 **Verde** [3] - 198 : 19 , 284 : 12 , 284: 13 **verify** [1] - 285 :20 **versus** [4] - 186 :23 , 238 : 10 , 288:23 , 304 : 14 **vested** [1] - 212 :24 **veterans** [1] - 255 : 12 **VI** [1] - 200 :6 **vi ability**  [1] - 261 :3 **vi brant**  [1] - 185:20 **vi ce**  [1] - 212 :21 **vi ce** **- president**  [1] - 212 :21 **vi ew**  [2] - 305 : 11 , 305 : 15 **vi ewed**  [1] - 236 : 19 **VIGIL** [1] - 175: 11 **Virginia** [2] - 218 :3, 218 :8 **vi s**  [2] - 231 : 12 **vi s-a-** **vi s**  [1] - 231 : 12 **vi sability**  [1] - 220:22 **vi sibility**  [55] - 188 :21 , 188:24 , 189 :4, 189 :9, 197 :1, 203 : 11 , 218: 19 , 220 :24 , 221 :1, 221 :24 , 222 : 10 , 224 :6, 224 :21 , 224 :23 , 230:1, 236:2, 236 :24 , 237:5, 237 : 13 , 246:20 , 248 :2, 248 :8, 248 :9, 248 : 12 , 248: 18 , 264 :4, 264 : 18 , 274 :22 , 276:23 , 276 :25, 277: 16 , 277 : 19 , 279: 11 , 282 : 11 , 282 : 17 , 283 :24 , 284: 18 , 290 : 18 , 290:20 , 290 :23 , 290:25, 291 :2, 291 : 12 , 291 : 14 , 291 :20 , 294 :23 , 295:3, 295 : 19 , 302 :3, 302 :23 , 304:6, 304:9, 305 :3, 308 :25 **vi sible**  [3] - 189 :3, 279 :7 **vi sion**  [2] - 226 :8, 226 : 10 **vi sitors**  [1] - 198 : 17 **vi stas**  [1] - 305 :5 **vo cabulary**  [1] - 255 : 14 **vo ice**  [2] - 183 : 19 , 193 :23 **VOLKERDING** [8] - 175 :8, 187 : 14 , 232 :4, 233 :5, 285 :24 , 286:2, 286 :5, 310 :6 **vo lume**  [1] - 308 :3 **VOLUME** [1] - 174 :24 **vo lunteer**  [2] - 191 :9, 294 :6 **vo te**  [2] - 303:3, 303 :22 **Voters** [3] - 207 : 13 , 207 : 17 , 210:6 **vo ting**  [2] - 308 :8, 312 : 10 

## W

**wage** [1] - 245 :21 **wages** [1] - 213:24 **wait** [2] - 258 :8, 274 : 17 **waiting** [1] - 271 :24 **walked** [3] - 184 :4, 192 :23 , 305:4 **wants** [2] - 229 : 17 , 289 :4 **warming** [2] - 255 :5, 310 : 16 **warning** [1] - 199 : 19 **watchdog** [1] - 255 :2 **watched** [1] - 188 :8 **Water** [2] - 240 :20 , 240 :21 **water** [10] - 185 : 15, 186 :2, 186 :23 , 187:2, 204 :7, 204 : 10 , 204 : 11 , 204: 12 , 246 : 11 , 260: 10 **Way 's**  [1] - 243: 18 **way s**  [3] - 206 :22, 238 :9, 242 :2 **way side**  [1] - 267:9 **weather** [1] - 255 :8 **web** [2] - 284 :4, 285 : 19 **week** [1] - 204: 11 **weeks** [1] - 273 :2 **weigh** [3] - 259: 17 , 292 :3, 302 : 13 **weighed** [1] - 225 :24 **weight** [2] - 221 :7, 232 :24 **weighting** [1] - 225 :8 **welcome** [1] - 205 : 10 **Welcome** [1] - 216 : 13 **welfare** [8] - 191 : 11 , 192 : 17 , 194: 19 , 198 : 13 , 236:2, 261 :4, 290 : 19 , 302 :3 **well -** **being** [1] - 246 : 14 **well -** **hearing** [1] - 202 : 10 **well -** **pay ing**  [2] - 252 : 13 , 254:23 **West** [1] - 176: 10 **western** [1] - 263 : 14 **Wheeler** [1] - 211 : 14 **whereas** [1] - 225: 12 **whole** [ 10] - 229 :2, 231 :4, 253 : 17 , 254 : 17 , 254: 18 , 285 :23 , 299: 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 25

304 : 16 , 311 :4 **wholly** [1] - 241 :2 **wholly -** **owned** [1] - 241 :2 **wide** [3] - 256 : 15, 257 : 14 , 291 : 15 **widespread** [1] - 266 : 15 **Wilderness** [1] - 211 : 14 **wilderness** [2] - 197 :2, 209 :23 **WILLIA M**  [2] - 177 :4, 184 :8 **William** [1] - 184: 14 **willing** [4] - 186 : 12 , 186 : 13 , 190:9, 203: 21 **wind** [3] - 215 : 11 , 276 : 11 , 284:3 **wind 's**  [1] - 257: 22 **winds** [1] - 208:8 **wise** [3] - 304:6, 304 : 13 , 308:4 **wiser** [1] - 305 : 14 **wish** [3] - 202 :9, 305 :7 **wishes** [1] - 289 : 20 **witness** [5] - 216 : 21 , 226 : 16 , 239:5, 243 :25, 299: 16 **WITNESSES** [3] - 177 :3, 178 :3, 179 :3 **witnesses** [ 10] - 216 : 19 , 271 :2, 271 :6, 271 : 15, 275: 16 , 292 : 10 , 308:2, 308:4, 313 :8, 313 : 12 **woeful** [1] - 195 :21 **Woman** [1] - 201 :3 **Women** [3] - 207 : 13 , 207 : 17 , 210:6 **wondered** [1] - 235 : 19 **wonderful** [1] - 216 : 15 **wonders** [1] - 266 :23 **woods** [1] - 243 :24 **word** [1] - 304: 17 **words** [2] - 223 :4, 255 : 13 **workers** [3] - 261 :9, 261 : 11 , 309: 17 **workforce** [2] - 242 : 13 , 261 : 12 **workforces** [1] - 263 :1 **world** [4] - 186:4, 204 : 19 , 230: 11 , 304 :3 **worse** [1] - 307 : 12 **worst** [2] - 211 : 12,257 : 16 **worth** [6] - 188 :20 , 189 :6, 229 : 21 , 229 : 23 , 248:6, 296:8 **wow** [2] - 185 : 10 , 191 : 14 **wrap** [1] - 312 :1 **written** [7] - 201 : 17, 211 :4, 217 :9, 217 : 19 , 219 : 11 , 239: 12 , 269 : 14 **wrote** [1] - 194:23 

## Y

**year** [22] - 191 :6, 191 :7, 191 : 13 , 191 : 18 , 192 :9, 192 : 10 , 192 : 11 , 192 : 13 , 196: 23 , 209 :8, 209 : 16 , 213 : 16 , 213: 25, 231 :7, 231 : 13 , 242 : 10 , 242 : 23 , 243 :6, 247 : 23 , 280 : 24 , 296: 12 , 306 : 22 **years** [33] - 185:6, 188 :8, 188 : 19 , 190 : 25, 196:9, 202 : 21 , 203: 12 , 204 :7, 212 : 18 , 213:5, 218 : 10 , 227: 11 , 234 : 25, 237: 20 , 240 :2, 242 :4, 246 : 18 , 250 :5, 251 : 25, 253 : 24 , 260: 17 , 262 : 24 , 263:9, 263 : 11 , 265:7, 268 : 11 , 281 :3, 299:5, 305 : 24 , 306: 19 , 306 : 21 , 307:3 **yellow** [1] - 287 : 14 **Yellowman** [1] - 251 : 21 **yesterday** [22] - 181 :8, 211 :2, 219 :22 , 223 : 15, 224: 16 , 225 : 17 , 230:6, 233 : 14 , 234:7, 254:8, 275 : 24 , 276: 11 , 277 :8, 277 :9, 277 : 15, 277 : 25, 279:6, 283:3, 286 :7, 286 : 25, 308 : 17 , 308: 18 **yesterday 's**  [1] - 277 : 12 **yo ung**  [1] - 225 : 18 **yo urself**  [1] - 285 :21



## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 26 **Z**

**zone** [1] - 265 : 18