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OAR Box 1802 

Prepped by Charmelle Mathews 

Document Number: 

70) IV-E-64 

Docket Number: 

A-90-37 

Printed 11/4/200811:58:00 AM Sheet 70 of 117 
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A-IO-^TJSL- E - <*>* 

July 31,2000 

SUBJECT: September 30,1998 Meeting Between Power Industry and the Environmental 

Protection Agency 

FROM: Dennis Crumpler 

Integrated Implementation Group, ITPID, MD-12 

TO: Air and Radiation Docket # A-90-37 

On September 30,1998, Bob Perciasepe, Assistant Administrator for Air from EPA's 

Office of Air and Radiation (OAR) and EPA staff met with representatives of electric utility 

industry in Washington, DC. An attendee list is attached. The meeting was held at the request of 

the power industry to allow them tp present concerns they have with the numerous regulatory 

efforts by EPA that present in their opinion conflicting objectives. Their basic contention was 

that EPA's regulations to implement President's directive on the new National Ambient Air 

Quality Standards for ozone and fine particulate matter, the final NSR Reform (now "NSR 

Improvement") rulemaking and upcoming requirements set out by the acid rain program could 

force them as an industry to put NOx controls on plants that might otherwise have a shorter life 

expectancy. It is more cost effective to control younger plants. This kind of investment might 

prevent the construction of more efficient plants which would be counter to the administrations 

long term goals to promote voluntary reductions of greenhouse gases. They specifically asked 

for relief from New Source Review. Bob Perciasepe concluded that OAR would work with the 

industry to identify examples where compliance with NSR as it might be "reformed" might 

compete with the other programmatic objectives. 

cc: Pam Smith (MD-12) 

?. .-) TM 

EPAAIR )OCK[-T 
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Attendees: 

Bob Perciasepe, AA, OAR, EPA 

Paul Stolpman, Director, OAP EPA 

Sam Napolitano, OAP, OAR, EPA 

Alan Eckert, OGC, EPA 

Dennis Crumpler, OAQPS, OAR, EPA 

via phone 

David Solomon, OAQPS, OAR, EPA 

via phone 

Jon Devine, OGC, EPA 

Anna Marie Woods, OPAR, OAR, EPA 

Bill Tyndall, Cinergy 

Eric Kuhn, Cinergy 

Charles Goodman, Southern Company 

Services 

Jene Robinson Illinois Power Co. 

Roy Hamme, Duke Power Co 

Janet Watts, Tennessee Valley Authority 

Reid Clemmer, Pennsylvania Power & Light 

Co 

John Kinsman, Edison Electric Institute 

John Novak, Edison Electric Institute 

Bill Zang, Edison Electric Institute 

Mike Miller, Electric Power Research 

Institute 

Andy Van Horn, Consultant, EPRI 

Chris McKinney, Wisconsin Electric Power 

Co. 

OAP = Office of Atmospheric Programs 

OPAR = Office of Policy Analysis and Review 

OAQPS = Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 

CL 
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09/30/98 WED 07:17 FAX 

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From: 

To: 

Date: 

Subject: 

SAM NAPOLITANO 

Perciasepe-Robert 

9/30/98 5:54pm 

Utility Meeting Recap 

After you left, we spent more time going over WEPCO, planning the next meeting, and talking about the process 

arrangements. 

We agreed that the next meeting should be for 2 hours (1:00 to 3:00) on October 22: 

1st hour: going over in detail how WEPCO hinders carbon reductions at power plants (through representative case 

studies) and having the power industry summarizing its comments on the NSR proposal (submitted by October 8th) 

2nd hour: discussing more concretely how the stranded investment issue plays out for specific utilities - at least for 

Southern Company and PSE&G situations. The utilities are worried about using their specific units in discussions 

with us, because of what it reveals to the competition in the room and potential anti-trust issues. TVA volunteered 

to come in to see us alone and lay this out (my guess is that Southern and PSE&G would also come in alone if 

asked). The utilities said they would like to consider talking at the aggregate level for their systems in the meeting, 

use representative model plants, or use some of the work that we have done in the past on this issue as a point of 

departure - I'll be talking more with them later this week. I think the best thing is allow them to talk in the meeting at 

the aggregate level for their firms, and contrast that to what we have seen in our analysis and elicit their reaction to 

that, then go from there to think about reasonable things to do next. I recommend that we have at least TVA come in 

alone to meet with staff to explain their thinking, and you also, if you have time. Please get back to me with your 

reaction on what you want to do soon, if you can. 

I laid out our view of how we'd like to proceed initially in these discussions - EPA is hearing their views at meetings 

that they request (which doesnt lead us into FACA), and then, if we find we've got some good ideas coming out of 

this, figure out how to include a broader group of other stakeholders in discussions, which may, or may not lead to a 

FACA process. In the meantime, we also were going to talk to other stakeholders about the same types of issues as 

we do in the regular course of our rulemaking activities. The power companies and Dirk liked this approach. In 

keeping with that, they wanted to know, if you'd like to come over to EEI for the next meeting. The next 

question is, do _____ want to invite some other groups in to hear their views, or have us pursue that at the 

Seitz/Stolpman level at this point. 

Janet Anderson also said that she wants to follow up with them in the future on the issues that you raised on how to 

address uncertainty, or make it less painful for them in some way. 

Overall, I think the session went pretty well in terms of building a relationship with the power industry representatives 

as a step to a reasonable dialog process. My sense is that they clearly saw that you were trying to work with them to 

understand their concerns and factor them into effective environmental programs. 

Tomorrow, I'll do a post-mortem with Dirk, Dave Soloman, and Bill White, and call AEP. Will report back. 

CC: .Brenner-Rob, Stolpman-Paul, Wegman-Lydia 

M