State ofNew Mexico

Susana Martinez

Governor

June 24, 2011

Dr. Alfredo Armendariz

Regional Administrator (6-A)

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Region 6

1445 Ross Avenue, Suite 1200

Dallas, TX 75202-2733

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On behalf of the New Mexico Environment Department, I am pleased to submit to the

Environmental Protection Agency the enclosed revisions to the New Mexico State

Implementation Plan (SIP). These revisions include amendments to New Mexico's Regional

Haze SIP under 40 CFR § 51.309.

The hearing record for all of the SIP revisions is attached, which includes the revised SIP, filed

regulations, transcripts, exhibits, public notices, affidavits of publication, the notice of intent to

present technical testimony, and public comments.

Included with the attached hardcopy of the hearing record is an electronic copy of the record

provided on disk which I certify to be an exact duplicate ofthe hardcopy.

These SIP revisions satisfY the requirements of the Clean Air Act, comply with EPA regulations

and policy, and will result in significant emission reductions while preserving the proper federalstate partnership envisioned under the Clean Air Act. As such, EPA must approve these

revisions. In addition, because the enclosed SIP revisions address two different provisions ofthe

federal Clean Air Act, I believe EPA should address them separately.

First, the enclosed "Interstate Transport SIP" addresses Section 11 0 of the Act, which requires

states to avoid interfering with any other states' implementation plans for visibility. As made

clear in the Interstate Transport SIP submitted in 2007, and further explained in two letters to

EPA Region 6 from the previous New Mexico administration (one from Governor Richardson on

June 12,2009 and another from a member of his staff on May 6, 2010), New Mexico has already

satisfied its Interstate Transport obligations. However, the enclosed Interstate Transport SIP

supplements those previous submittals by confirming that the emissions from New Mexico

sources will not exceed the assumptions utilized in the modeling conducted by the Western

Regional Air Partnership (WRAP), upon which other western states' visibility plans are based.

State Capitol • Room 400 • Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 • 505-476-2200 • fax: 505-476-2226
EPA has already recognized that "the analysis conducted by the WRAP provides an appropriate

means for designing a [plan] that will ensure that emissions from sources in New Mexico are not

interfering with the visibility programs ofother states." In fact, the enclosed Interstate Transport

SIP confirms that emissions will actually be much lower than the WRAP modeling assumptions.

Second, the enclosed revisions to the 2003 "Regional Haze Section 309 SIP" and the enclosed

"Regional Haze Section 309(g) SIP" (together, the "Regional Haze SIPs") address New

Mexico's obligation to reduce visibility impairment at national parks and wilderness areas

("Class I areas") in accordance with Sections 169A & 169B ofthe Clean Air Act. The Regional

Haze SIPs satisfy New Mexico's regional haze requirements by adopting new sulfur dioxide

(S02) milestones for the Section 309 Backstop Trading Program, establishing reasonable

progress goals and a long-term strategy for New Mexico's nine Class I areas, and adopting a

variety of control measures to address emissions of visibility impairing pollutants from New

Mexico sources. Most notably, the enclosed Regional Haze SIP also includes a Best Available

Retrofit Technology (BART) determination for the San Juan Generating Station, which requires

the installation of a Selective Non-Catalytic Reduction (SNCR) system to meet EPA's

presumptive BART limit for nitrogen oxides (NO,).

I am aware that EPA has proposed a different plan for implementing the Interstate Transport

program and at least a portion of the Regional Haze program in New Mexico through a

combined Federal Implementation Plan (FIP). I am also aware ofEPA's concern that it is bound

by a court order to complete that rulemaking effort by August 5, 20 II. However, the court order

imposing the August 5, 20 II deadline only requires EPA to address Interstate Transport

requirements before that date. In addition, the proposed FIP suffers from a variety of legal and

technical flaws and inappropriately seeks to address only an isolated portion ofthe regional haze

program. Under these circumstances, I believe EPA can and should address the Interstate

Transport program and Regional Haze program separately. Doing so will enable EPA to address

New Mexico's Interstate Transport requirements by the court-ordered deadline, while allowing

additional time for review ofthe more lengthy and complicated Regional Haze SIPs.

One of the fundamental principles expressed in Section !OI of the Clean Air Act is that "air

pollution control at its source is the primary responsibility of States and local governments."

That principle is nowhere better illustrated in the Act than in its visibility provisions, which, as

EPA and the courts have recognized, grant to the states significant discretion in the

implementation of measures to address visibility impairment. In designing the regional haze

program, Congress recognized that the individual states are best-equipped to balance the need for

robust environmental protections with the costs those protections necessarily entail.

Moreover, nothing in the Clean Air Act requires EPA to address Interstate Transport and

Regional Haze requirements together. On the contrary, EPA has generally addressed these

programs separately in the past. As just one example, EPA Region 8 recently proposed to take

separate action on the Interstate Transport and Regional Haze implementation plan revisions

submitted by the state of Colorado. Even EPA's proposed FIP for New Mexico itself

contemplates separate Interstate Transport and Regional Haze plans with regard to S02

emiSSIOns.
Accordingly, EPA should meet its August 5, 2011 deadline by simply approving New Mexico's

prior Interstate Transport submittals, as supplemented by the enclosed Interstate Transport SIP.

Even if EPA does not agree that New Mexico's prior submittals have already satisfied its

Interstate Transport obligations, EPA should be able to act on New Mexico's four-page Interstate

Transport SIP before August 5, 2011.

Since the court order does not require EPA to address New Mexico's Regional Haze program by

August 5, 2011, New Mexico is now, as of this submittal, in the same position as nearly every

other state - awaiting EPA action on its Regional Haze SIP. As with other states, EPA must

determine whether New Mexico's Regional Haze SIPs are complete no more than six months

from this date and, following that completeness determination or the expiration of six months,

EPA must act to approve or disapprove those SIPs within twelve months, including time allowed

for public notice and comment on the proposed action. Because EPA will be required to

consider New Mexico's Regional Haze SIPs regardless of whether it flllalizes the proposed FIP,

EPA should take no action on its proposed FIP, particularly since the August 5, 2011 deadline

does not apply to regional haze. At a minimum, EPA should reopen the docket on the proposed

PIP for at least ninety (90) days to accept further comment in light ofthe submission ofthese SIP

revisions.

I hope you will begin an immediate, expedited review and approval ofthe enclosed SIP revisions

and, as recommended above, take separate action on the separate Interstate Transport and

Regional Haze requirements ofthe Clean Air Act.

If there are any questions concerning this SIP submittal, please contact Raj Solomon at (505)

827-2855.

Sincerely,

Susana Martinez

Governor

Enclosures

cc: Guy Donaldson, EPA Region 6

Dave Martin, NMED Cabinet Secretary

Raj Solomon, NMED Deputy Cabinet Secretary
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List of Enclosures: 

01 Section 309 Revised State Implementation Plan 

02 Appendix K - Recommendations for Making Attribution Determinations in the 

Context of Reasonably Attributable BART 

03 20.2.73 NMAC Revisions - Notices of Intent and Emissions Inventory 

Requirements 

04 20.2.81 NMAC Revisions - Western Backstop Sulfur Dioxide Trading Program 

05 Section 309(g) State Implementation Plan 

06 Appendix A - Emissions Overview (WRAP, undated) 

07 Appendix B - Air Quality Modeling (WRAP, undated) 

08 Appendix C - Summary of WRAP RMC BART Modeling for New Mexico 

09 Appendix D - New Mexico BART Determination for San Juan Generating 

Station 

10 Appendix E - Supplementary Information for Four Factor Analyses by WRAP 

States, EC/R Incorporated, May 4, 2009 (corrected April 20, 2010) 

11 Appendix F - Supplementary Information for Four-Factor Analyses for 

Selected Individual Facilities in New Mexico, May 5, 2009 

12 NMED Notice of Intent to Present Technical Testimony - May 2, 2011 

13 NMED Ex. 1 Clean Air Act § 169A 

14 NMED Ex. 2 Clean Air Act § 169B 

15 NMED Ex. 3 40 C.F.R. § 51.308 (Regional Haze Rule § 308) 

16 NMED Ex. 4 40 C.F.R. § 51.309 (Regional Haze Rule § 309) 

17 NMED Ex. 5 BART Guidelines – Appendix Y to 40 C.F.R. Part 51 Published 

at 70 Fed. Reg. 39104 

18 NMED Ex. 6 NMED Requests for Information from PNM 

19 NMED Ex. 6a Email - BART Modeling Results from WRAP (11.9.06) 

20 NMED Ex. 6b Email – PNM San Juan Generating BART Modeling (6-26-07) 

21 NMED Ex. 6c Email - Comments on the BART modeling report for the San 

Juan Generating Station (7.30.07) 

22 NMED Ex. 6d Email - SJGS BART Analysis Additional Information Request 

(9.21.07) 

23 NMED Ex. 6e Letter - Department Request (12.21.07) 

24 NMED Ex. 6f Letter PNM-BART-Request (4-25-08) 

25 NMED Ex. 6g Email - PNM NOx Information Review (3.20.08) 

26 NMED Ex. 6h Email - Meeting (6.18.08) 

27 NMED Ex. 6i Letter – Additional Information Request (12.29.08) 
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28 NMED Ex. 7 PNM Submittals Related to BART 

29 NMED Ex. 7a San Juan BART Modeling Protocol (4.13.07) 

30 NMED Ex. 7b PNM BART Analysis (6.6.07) 

31 NMED Ex. 7c Email Thread with Cost Analysis Attached 

32 NMED Ex. 7d SCR Cost Analysis - (7.11.07) 

33 NMED Ex. 7e SNCR Hybrid Cost Analysis (7.11.07) 

34 NMED Ex. 7f Updated Visibility Cost Effectiveness Data - (8.23.07) 

35 NMED Ex. 7g PNM Response to NMED (9.14.07) - September 14, 2007 

36 NMED Ex. 7h PNM SCR Schematic 

37 NMED Ex. 7i Refined Visibility Results (11.5.07) 

38 NMED Ex. 7j PNM Discussion of OAQPS Cost Manual Method (3.29.08) 

39 NMED Ex. 7k Final BART Modeling Response (3.31.08) 

40 NMED Ex. 7L Final BART SNCR Analysis (5.30.08) 

41 NMED Ex. 7m Discussion of SJGS Coal and Classification 

42 NMED Ex. 7n Final Nalco-MOBOTEC NOx BART Analysis (8.28.08) 

43 NMED Ex. 7o Final PM BART Analysis (8.28.08) 

44 NMED Ex. 7p PNM SO3 Removal Report (3.16.09) 

45 NMED Ex. 7q SNCR Cover Ltr (2.9.11) 

46 NMED Ex. 7r PNM BART SNCR Analysis Update (2.9.11) 

47 NMED Ex. 7s SNCR Cover Ltr (2.11.11) 

48 NMED Ex. 7t Revised SNCR Analysis (2.11.11) 

49 NMED Ex. 7u Rate Impact Analysis (2.11.11) 

50 NMED Ex. 8 Testimony of Mary Uhl 

51 NMED Ex. 8a Testimony on Scientific and Regulatory Background of 

Regional Haze 

52 NMED Ex. 8b Regional Haze Powerpoint Slides 

53 NMED Ex. 8c Testimony Re BART Determination for PNM SJGS 

54 NMED Ex. 9 Testimony of Rita Bates 

55 NMED Ex. 9a Testimony Re Revisions to 2003 § 309 SIP 

56 NMED Ex. 9b Testimony Re Proposed §309(g) SIP 

57 NMED Ex. 10 Additional Proposed Revisions to § 309 SIP (5.2.11) 

58 NMED Ex. 11 Additional Proposed Revisions to § 309(g) SIP (5.2.11) 

59 NMED Ex. 12 Public Notices 
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60 San Juan Citizens Alliance Comment Letter - May 3, 2011 

61 NMED Response to San Juan Citizens Alliance Comments 

62 Public Service Company of New Mexico Notice of Intent to Present Technical 

Testimony - May 17, 2011 

63 San Juan Coal Company Notice of Intent to Present Technical Testimony - 

May 17, 2011 

64 The Natural Resources Defense Council, San Juan Citizens Alliance, and 

WildEarth Guardians Entry of Appearance - May 17, 2011 

65 NMED Notice of Receipt of Comments - May 16, 2011 (includes U.S. EPA 

Comments) 

66 NMED Supplemental Notice of Intent to Present Technical Testimony - May 

20, 2011 

67 NMED Ex. 13 May 20, 2011 Revisions to § 309(g) SIP in Response to EPA 

Comments 

68 NMED Ex. 14 May 20, 2011 Revisions to 20.2.81 NMAC in Response to EPA 

Comments 

69 NMED Ex. 15 May 13, 2011 Comments from U.S. EPA Region 6 

70 NMED Ex. 16 NMED Responses to EPA Comments of May 13, 2011 

71 NMED Ex. 17 U.S.F.S. Letter of March 30, 2011with Comments 

72 NMED Ex. 18 NMED Response to U.S.F.S Comments of March 30, 2011 

73 NMED Ex. 19 Proposed Statement of Reasons for Adoption and Order 

74 NMED Second Notice of Receipt of Comments - May 26, 2011 (includes 

comments received May 25, 2011 from U.S. Park Service and Fish and Wildlife 

Service) 

75 NMED Exhibits Presented at the June 1, 2011 Hearing 

76 NMED Ex. 20 Compiled Section 309(g) SIP (included herein as Section 309(g) 

SIP) -- was not included in submittal EPA received -- probably the same as 

enclosures 05 to 11. 

77 NMED Ex. 21 Responses to U.S. Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service 

Comments 

78 Transcript of Hearing - June 1 and 2, 2011 (Volumes 1 and 2) 

79 New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board Statement of Reasons for 

Adoption of SIP Revisions 
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STATE OF NEW MEXICO

BEFORE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD

No. EIB 11-01(R)

IN THE MATTER OF THE PROPOSED REVISIONS

TO THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN

FOR REGIONAL HAZE

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BE IT REMEMBERED that on the 1st day of June, 2011,

this matter came on for hearing before the Environmental

Improvement Board, taken at the State Capitol Building,

Room 307, 490 Old Santa Fe Trail, Santa Fe, New Mexico,

at the hour of 9:40 a.m.

VOLUME 1
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A P P E A R A N C E S

The Hearing Officer:

FELICIA ORTH

New Mexico Environment Department

1190 St. Francis Drive

Harold Runnels Building

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501

The New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board:

DEBORAH PEACOCK

GREGORY H. FULFER

JAMES R. CASCIANO

JOHN MICHAEL VOLKERDING

TIMOTHY L. MORROW

JEFFREY W. BRYCE

ELIZABETH RYAN

STEPHEN VIGIL

Assistant Attorney General

Civil Division

Office of the Attorney General

Post Office Drawer 1508

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-1508

(505) 827-6040

svigil@nmag.gov

For New Mexico Environment Department:

BILL GRANTHAM

Office of General Counsel

New Mexico Environment Department

Post Office Box 5469

1190 St. Francis Drive

Suite N-4064

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502-5469

(575) 779-1627

bill.grantham@state.nm.us
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A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)

For Public Service Company of New Mexico and

Southwestern Public Service Company:

RICHARD L. ALVIDREZ

MILLER STRATVERT PA

Attorneys at Law

500 Marquette, Northwest

Suite 1100

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 824-4737

ralvidrez@mstlaw.com

For San Juan Coal Company:

CHARLES E. ROYBAL

Manager of Energy Coal Legal

BHP Billiton

300 West Arrington

Suite 200

Farmington, New Mexico 87401

(505) 598-4358

charles.ce.roybal@bhpbilliton.com

For Natural Resources Defense Council, San Juan Citizens

Alliance and WildEarth Guardians:

ERIK SCHLENKER-GOODRICH

Western Environmental Law Center

208 Paseo del Pueblo Sur

Unit 602

Taos, New Mexico 87571

(575) 613-4197

eriksg@westernlaw.org

For M-S-R Public Power Agency:

LOUIS W. ROSE

MONTGOMERY & ANDREW, PA

Attorneys at Law

Post Office Box 2307

325 Paseo de Peralta

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2307

(505) 982-3873

lrose@montand.com
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I N D E X

PAGE

WITNESSES:

RITA BATES and MARY UHL

Direct Examination by Mr. Grantham 18

Cross Examination by

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich 30

Examination by the Board 32

Redirect Examination by Mr. Grantham 45

CARLA SONNTAG

Direct Testimony 48

JAMES CRAWFORD

Direct Testimony 50

JUDY WILLIAMS

Direct Testimony 54

LISA LAW

Direct Testimony 56

BRUCE MADDEN

Direct Testimony 58

MARLENE PERROTTE

Direct Testimony 61

JOAN BROWN

Direct Testimony 64

JUAN REYNOSA

Direct Testimony 69
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I N D E X (Continued)

PAGE

VIRGINIA MILLER

Direct Testimony 74

Open Remarks by Mr. Alvidrez 77

PATRICK THEMIG

Direct Examination by Mr. Alvidrez 82

Examination by the Board 87

GERARD T. ORTIZ

Direct Examination by Mr. Alvidrez 96

Cross Examination by

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich 99

DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS

Direct Examination by Mr. Alvidrez 101

Examination by the Board 110

STEVE NEVILLE

Direct Testimony 130

PAUL BANDY

Direct Testimony 132

RAY BEGAY

Direct Testimony 134

NATE GENTRY

Direct Testimony 138
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I N D E X (Continued)

PAGE

NORMA MC CALLAN

Direct Testimony 141

PAUL GESSING

Direct Testimony 145

BEVERLEE MC CLURE

Direct Testimony 147

ELIZABETH SLOTA

Direct Testimony 150

ERIK SCHLENKER-GOODRICH

Direct Testimony 152

Examination by the Board 159
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E X H I B I T S

ADMITTED

NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT:

1. Clean Air Act Section 169A 30

2. Clean Air Act Section 169B 30

3. 40 CFR Section 51.308 (Regional Haze

Rule Section 308) 30

4. 40 CFR Section 51.309 (Regional Haze

Rule Section 309) 30

5. BART Guidelines - Appendix Y to 40 CFR

Part 51, published at 70 Fed. Reg. 39104 30

6a through 6i. NMED requests for information

from PNM 30

7a through 7u. PNM submittals related to BART 30

8a through 8c. Testimony of Mary Uhl 30

9a through 9b. Testimony of Rita Bates 30

10. Additional proposed revisions to Section

309 SIP (5.2.11) 30

11. Additional proposed revisions to Section

309(g) SIP (5.2.11) 30

12. Public notices 30

13. May 20, 2011, revisions to Section 309(g)

SIP in response to EPA comments 30

14. May 20, 2011, revisions to 20.2.81 NMAC

in response to EPA comments 30
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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ADMITTED

NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT (Continued):

15. May 13, 2011, comments from USEPA

Region 6 30

16. NMED responses to EPA comments of

May 13, 2011 30

17. USFS letter of March 30, 2011, with

comments 30

18. NMED response to USFS comments of

March 30, 2011

19. Proposed Statement of Reasons for

Adoption and Order 30

20. New Mexico State Implementation Plan,

Regional Haze, Section 309(g),

(revised May 20, 2011) 30

21. National Park Service and US Fish and

Wildlife Service Technical Comments,

New Mexico Revised Regional Haze Section

309(g) State Implementation Plan,

May 25, 2011 30

PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO:

A. Pre-Filed Testimony of Patrick J. Themig

Submitted on Behalf of Public Service

Company of New Mexico 83
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ADMITTED

PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO (Continued):

B. Pre-Filed Testimony of Gerard T. Ortiz

Submitted on Behalf of Public Service

Company of New Mexico 97

C. Pre-Filed Testimony of Black & Veatch

Corporation (Diane M. Fischer and Kyle

J. Lucas) Submitted on Behalf of Public

Service Company of New Mexico 103
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

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MS. ORTH: Good morning.

My name is Felicia Orth, the Hearing Officer

appointed by the Board to conduct a hearing in EIB

11-01. This is proposed revisions to the State

Implementation Plan, which you'll hear referred to as

the SIP, for regional haze.

There are a number of parties in this matter,

and I'll ask counsel for their appearances in a moment.

The hearing will be conducted in accordance

with 20.1.1. These are the Board's rulemaking

procedures, as modified somewhat by an order

establishing procedures that was entered in March, and

slightly modified further pursuant to a teleconference

among counsel and the Hearing Officer last week.

Just a few things.

Testimony is taken under oath. It is subject

to cross-examination. There are at least two parties

who intend to present some of their technical witnesses

as a panel.

If you have not submitted prefiled technical

testimony, you may offer nontechnical public comment at

this time, and we'll talk about nontechnical public

comment.

The hearing is being recorded and transcribed

by Cheryl Arreguin of Kathy Townsend Court Reporters.
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

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Please contact Cheryl directly if you'd like a copy of

the transcript. Eventually it also becomes a public

record when received in the office of the administrator

and may be reviewed in our offices.

We expect this hearing to proceed through

today in Santa Fe, tomorrow in Farmington. The Board

may choose to make a decision at the end of the closure

of the record. And we don't know if that will be

tomorrow or Friday in Farmington.

So if you have, again, verbal public comment,

I will invite it. If you have written public comment,

you may simply bring it up to the desk, and we'll accept

it up until closure of the record.

Counsel, would you make your appearances.

Mr. Grantham, please start.

MR. GRANTHAM: Good morning, Madam Hearing

Officer.

My name is Bill Grantham. I'm assistant

general counsel with the Environment Department. And

I'll introduce my witnesses shortly, when we begin

testimony.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes, Madam Hearing Officer,

members of the Board.
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

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My name is Rick Alvidrez with the Miller

Stratvert law firm on behalf of Public Service Company

of New Mexico.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Erik

Schlenker-Goodrich, Western Environmental Law Center,

representing National Resources Defense Council, San

Juan Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Anyone else here?

Sir.

MR. ROYBAL: Good morning, Madam Hearing

Officer.

Charles Roybal here for San Juan Coal Company.

MS. ORTH: Okay.

Anyone else here?

No. All right.

We do have some other parties who were

intending to present public comment, and again, let me

say for the record what I said to Mr. Crawford in an

E-mail, in an effort to be forthcoming, not confusing.

What I was explaining to Mr. Crawford is that

I don't have a printer or a copier here at the

roundhouse. The Board does not have available to it
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while we're here in this building or at the college in

Farmington a printer or a copier.

So I was encouraging Mr. Crawford, and I'll

encourage any of the rest of you, yes, we will accept

certainly E-mail comment. It's our protocol. However,

if you send it now, during the hearing, I don't have an

opportunity to print it off for the Board to look at. I

simply have an opportunity to forward it to them.

The best way if you want to offer written

comment during the -- during the hearing, the best way

to assure that it's in their hands before they

deliberate is to come with eight copies.

That's what I was trying to explain, and

that's -- that's for everyone.

So the order of testimony, which is what we

discussed last week, will be the Department here first.

And pursuant to the procedural order, their actual

narrative testimony came in in written form quite some

time ago. What they'll be doing here is just

summarizing it and then standing for questions on it.

We'll next hear from PNM.

And we will probably not hear from BHP

Billiton, San Juan Coal Company until we get to

Farmington. The plan is to hear from their witnesses in

Farmington.
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So, Mr. Grantham -- oh. Public comment,

before we begin with Mr. Grantham.

I'd like to have lots of opportunities for

public comment. We could make an opportunity right now,

before we hear any of the technical case, for those who

have come early, to make sure that they have an

opportunity to offer public comment.

We could also hear public comment after the

Department's case, when I would tend to invite it

anyway, and after the next party's case and after the

next party's case.

Does the Board have any input for the Hearing

Officer on that?

MS. PEACOCK: I'd like to hear some of the

testimony before we hear the public comment. I think it

would fit better for us --

MS. ORTH: All right.

MS. PEACOCK: -- and make more sense.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Mr. Grantham, if you would, please.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you, Madam Hearing

Officer. Good morning.

Good morning, Madam Chair, members of the

Board.

Again, my name is Bill Grantham. I'm an
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attorney with the Environment Department.

And as the Hearing Officer has indicated, the

testimony of our witnesses has been prefiled and who are

with me today, Rita Bates, the head of the planning

section for the Air Quality Bureau, and Mary Uhl, who is

now chief of the OSHA Bureau, but until recently was

chief of the Air Quality Bureau.

I will have just a few questions for them to

supplement their written testimony, and then we'll stand

for cross-examination as a panel.

First, I'd just like to provide a little bit

of context to the Board to help the Board understand how

the Department's testimony corresponds with the

regulatory scheme that's provided by the Regional Haze

Rule.

As you know from the pleadings, this State

Implementation Plan, or SIP, was developed to comply

with the requirements of so-called Section 309 of the

Regional Haze Rule. That's 40 CFR 51.309.

And Section 309 implements the recommendations

of the Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission.

It's an option that's available to certain Western

states and tribes as a means of complying with the

federal regional haze requirements.

And as Ms. Uhl describes in her written
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testimony, which is at NMED Exhibit 8a in some detail,

the provisions of Section 309 were developed by the

Western states themselves with extensive stakeholder

input, including industry, environmentalists, federal

land managers and others, to reflect unique Western

conditions.

This Board approved a SIP under Section 309 in

December of 2003; however, EPA has never acted upon that

SIP submittal.

So one set of SIP revisions at issue in this

proceeding are identified as revisions to the

Section 309 SIP. And that's to bring those -- that 2003

SIP submittal up to date to current conditions so that

EPA can approve it now in -- where we are in 2011.

And those revisions are discussed in

Ms. Bates' testimony at NMED Exhibit 9a.

That 2003 SIP addressed only one Class I area

in New Mexico, which is the San Pedro Parks, because

that was the only Class I area that was included in the

Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission's analyses.

However, Section 309 has a provision known as

Section 309(g) that provides that states may extend the

coverage of the 309 SIP to additional Class I areas by

making certain demonstrations.

So in the material before you is the so-called
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Section 309(g) SIP, which would utilize that mechanism

to extend the 309 SIP to the other eight Class I areas

in New Mexico.

And as you probably realize, one mandatory

element of all regional haze SIPs is the determination

of the Best Available Retrofit Technology for certain

facilities which were built between 1962 and 1977. The

2003 Section 309 SIP, as with the revisions before you,

will satisfy the Best Available Retrofit Technology or

BART requirements with respect to sulfur dioxide.

With regard to particulate matter and nitrogen

oxide, Section 309(g) requires that -- a determination

by New Mexico for the only source in New Mexico that's

subject to BART requirements, which is the San Juan

Generating Station.

And that determination is discussed in

Ms. Uhl's testimony at NMED Exhibit 8c.

And finally, there have been several revisions

to the Section 309(g) SIP since the February 28th

proposal, specifically in pleadings filed on May -- on

April 1st, May 2nd and May 20th. Some of those

revisions are to correct errors that the Department

discovered on its own, and some are in response to

comments from the USEPA and from federal land managers.

And all of the changes are in those three
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pleadings, but for your convenience, we provided you

with a consolidated version of that, which is marked as

NMED Exhibit 20, and it should be in your package before

you, so you don't have to flip between the different --

the different pleadings to review the 309 SIP.

And with that, I would like to move to

examination of the witnesses.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Swear them, please.

RITA BATES and MARY UHL

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, were

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. GRANTHAM:

MR. GRANTHAM: Ms. Bates, please state your

name for the record.

MS. BATES: Rita Bates.

MR. GRANTHAM: And where are you employed?

MS. BATES: I'm employed at the Air Quality

Bureau of the Environment Department.

MR. GRANTHAM: And what is your position

there?

MS. BATES: I'm the Planning and Policy

Section chief.

MR. GRANTHAM: And how long have you been in
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that position?

MS. BATES: For six years now.

MR. GRANTHAM: And what is your educational

background?

MS. BATES: I have a bachelor of science

degree in biology from Humboldt State University.

MR. GRANTHAM: And what role did you have in

the development of the regional haze SIP?

MS. BATES: I was the lead person for

developing most parts of the SIP, but it was a group

project. As you can see, it's a large document.

MR. GRANTHAM: And did you provide the written

testimony that was prefiled and for this notice of

intent?

MS. BATES: Yes. And those are Exhibits 9a

and 9b.

MR. GRANTHAM: And, Ms. Uhl, if you'll state

your name for the record.

MS. UHL: My name is Mary Uhl.

MR. GRANTHAM: And where are you employed?

MS. UHL: I'm employed with the New Mexico

Environment Department.

MR. GRANTHAM: And what is your position with

the Department?

MS. UHL: I am the Occupational Health and
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Safety Bureau chief.

MR. GRANTHAM: How long have you been in that

position?

MS. UHL: This is my 29th day in that

position.

MR. GRANTHAM: What was your previous

position, and how long were you in that position?

MS. UHL: I was the Air Quality Bureau chief

for the New Mexico Environment Department. I was in

that position for six years.

MR. GRANTHAM: And what role did you have in

the development of the regional haze SIP?

MS. UHL: Well, I -- I actually oversaw the

development of the regional haze SIP, including the 2003

SIP that was approved by this Board, but prior to that,

starting in the mid '90s, worked on modeling issues for

the Grand Canyon Visibility Transport Commission.

I was the Western Regional Air Partnership

Modeling Forum co-chair for a number of years, and that

modeling developed the basis for the SIPs that the

states have brought forward for regional haze for the

federal Regional Haze Rule.

MR. GRANTHAM: And did you provide written

testimony that was prefiled with the notice of intent?

MS. UHL: I did, and that is Exhibits 8a, 8b
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and 8c.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

Ms. Bates, can you briefly explain the

distinction between the -- what has been identified as

the 309 SIP revisions and the 309(g) SIP?

MS. BATES: Sure.

Since December, 2003, New Mexico's regional

haze plan and regulations approved by the EIB have been

enforced by the state, despite EPA's failure to act on

the SIP. Had EPA proposed disapproval of the SIP or

disapproved the SIP, New Mexico would have been required

to propose changes to regulations or face implementation

of a federal plan.

After the 2003 SIP was adopted and submitted

to EPA, the Washington, DC circuit case in 2005

invalidated that part of the rule governing the backstop

trading program. That's the SO2 backstop trading

program.

EPA finalized rules to address the court

decision in October of 2006. Arizona and Oregon then

dropped out of the 309 program, and they decided to

implement a SIP under Section 308.

40 CFR 51.309, or Section 309, applies to

Class I areas on the Colorado Plateau. New Mexico has

one Class I area on the Colorado Plateau, and that's San
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Pedro Parks Wilderness area.

The EPA indicated to states in the West that

the 309 SIPs that were submitted in 2003 were not

approvable due to several issues with the voluntary

sulfur dioxide emission milestones.

Western states and the City of Albuquerque

worked diligently with EPA to negotiate approvable

milestones for the program and arrived at an agreement

in August of 2010. At that time, Western states began

the process of revising regulations and SIPs through

individual state processes, as well as the City of

Albuquerque as process.

The proposed revisions to the 309 SIP -- now,

that's the original SIP that was first approved in

2003 -- are that we revise the SO2 milestones to levels

EPA will accept, we demonstrate that the revised

milestones satisfy the Best Available Retrofit

Technology requirements for sulfur dioxide, we revise

the projections of visibility impairment.

And the revisions explained in more detail --

are explained in more detail in my testimony in

Exhibit 9a. It also includes revisions that are shown

in Exhibit 10, submitted with the May 2nd notice of

intent.

There are also additional revisions to 28.2.81
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NMAC in response to EPA comments on May 13th. Those are

included in Exhibit 14 and were submitted in the

May 20th supplemental notice of intent.

The 309(g) SIP includes all remaining Class I

areas. There are eight additional Class I areas in New

Mexico. This section of the rule allows states to take

credit for improvements due to the Section 309

strategies.

In doing so, states must meet core

requirements, and that is to set reasonable progress

goals, have a calculation of baseline and natural

conditions, include long-term strategies to meet those

goals, and have a monitoring strategy and meet some

other requirements.

The Regional Haze Rule contains numerous

specific provisions governing contents of these four

core requirements. My testimony at Exhibit 9b provides

cross-references to the section of the 309(g) SIP where

each element of the rule is satisfied.

There is also a Best Available Retrofit

Technology requirement for nitrogen oxides and

particulate matter, and Mary Uhl will discuss this in

more detail.

In summary, all Class I areas are improving on

the 20 percent best days except for Carlsbad Caverns
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National Park. We've looked at that, and it appears as

if the growth and emissions from New Mexico that were

projected to occur by 2018 are causing us not to improve

and actually degrade slightly on the 20 best days.

All of the Class I areas in New Mexico are

improving on the 20 percent worst days in 2018.

Long-term strategies in the existing 309 SIP,

as revised, are sufficient for the other Class I areas.

And I wanted to let you know, as well, that

we'll be back before you, because there is another SIP

revision due in 2013. This is a program that continues

on. So we will be back to this Board many times between

now and 2064 to revise the SIP. And I don't think we'll

all be here then.

MR. GRANTHAM: Ms. Bates, did the Department

receive any comments from federal agencies on any of

these SIP revisions after the petition in this matter

was filed on February 28?

MS. BATES: Yes. We received comments from

the Forest Service, the EPA, the National Park Service

and the Fish and Wildlife Service. We also received

citizen comments from San Juan Citizens Alliance, and

these were submitted to the Board on May 27th by Western

Environmental Law Center, as well.

Comments were also posted on our web site.
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Our responses to the EPA and Forest Service

comments were submitted to the Board on May 20th in our

supplemental NOI. We received the National Park Service

and Fish and Wildlife Service comments on May 25th, and

we have prepared responses to those comments.

We also added the time to meet the natural

visibility goal. We already added that. That was one

of their comments.

One of their comments was also how did we pick

the sources that we looked at for New Mexico for the

four-factor analysis.

And the way we did that, we had done a lot of

work in the Four Corners region already on oil and gas

and power plant emissions. We felt we had a pretty good

handle on what those were, and we're continuing to work

on those through the Western Regional Air Partnership,

but we just were independent in what the three

refineries were looking like and how they were affecting

Class I areas.

And they also had a question about long-term

strategies. We think our long-term strategy does

include federal and state programs.

MR. GRANTHAM: And for the Board's

information, the responses the Department prepared to

the federal land manager's requirements -- excuse me --
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federal land manager's comments that we just received

last week are before you marked as Exhibit 21. And

that, along with Exhibit 20, have also been provided to

other counsel.

Ms. Uhl, are you familiar with the submissions

that Ms. Bates described?

MS. UHL: Yes.

MR. GRANTHAM: And did they include any

comments pertaining to the BART determinations for the

San Juan Generating Station?

MS. UHL: Yes. USEPA's comments point to

differences in cost effectiveness and control efficiency

between New Mexico Environment Department's proposed

determination and the USEPA proposed determination.

And the federal land managers believe that the

BART determination should be selective catalytic

reduction, or SCR, as proposed by USEPA, and not SNCR,

as proposed by the Department.

MR. GRANTHAM: And, Ms. Uhl, can you explain

why the Department changed its BART determination

between the June 20 -- June, 2010 petition and the

petition in this matter?

MS. UHL: In June of 2010, New Mexico

Environment Department proposed selective catalytic

reduction, SCR, as Best Available Retrofit Technology
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for all four units at the San Juan Generating Station.

Since that time, the Department, working

closely with the Public Service Company of New Mexico,

has determined that the cost increases to ratepayers in

New Mexico for the SCR installation would be overly

burdensome. The increase is particularly relevant

because 40 percent of PNM's customers in the state are

eligible for federal assistance in paying their utility

bills.

Federal regulations guiding the BART

determination provide discretion to the state to take

into consideration all costs of a control technology.

Because of overly burdensome costs to the

citizens of New Mexico, New Mexico Environment

Department determined that SCR was not actually

economically feasible in this state. SNCR is

economically and technically feasible. Therefore, it is

New Mexico Environment Department's determination that

SNCR is Best Available Retrofit Technology for the San

Juan Generating Station.

MR. GRANTHAM: And, Ms. Uhl, why are there

differences between NMED's and EPA's cost estimates for

the BART determination?

MS. UHL: There are some differences between

USEPA's cost estimates for SCR and NMED's accepted cost
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estimates for SCR. The cost discrepancies are the

direct result of both USEPA and PNM utilizing different

costing methodologies in their analysis, which is

allowed by USEPA guidelines.

The guidelines allow costs to be based on

USEPA's what's called OAQPS Control Cost Manual, as well

as on vendor-supplied data. As authorized in the

guidelines, PNM estimated costs using vendor data.

USEPA, on the other hand, estimated costs solely using

the Control Cost Manual.

In practice, however, the costs are likely to

be somewhat overestimated or conservative using the

vendor data and underestimating using the USEPA Control

Cost Manual. Therefore, the actual costs are likely

somewhere between the two estimates.

Although PNM's costs may be conservative, the

estimates do define the upper bounds of the cost ranges,

and the NMED has accepted PNM's cost analysis as a

reasonable estimate of the cost of SCR installation at

San Juan Generating Station.

Because New Mexico Environment Department

accepts PNM's estimate, New Mexico Environment

Department rejects USEPA's cost estimate calculations.

MR. GRANTHAM: And for both of you, is there

anything in addition you would like to add that I didn't
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ask about?

MS. UHL: I respectfully request that the

Board adopt these plan and rule revisions at the

conclusion of this hearing.

The Department also advises the Board that the

proposed revisions may be revised to correct any

typographical errors we may find and to reflect

formatting changes required by The Administrative Law

Division of the New Mexico Commission of Public Records

for compilation into the New Mexico Administrative Code.

Thank you for your attention.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

Madam Hearing Officer, that's all the

questions we have on direct.

I would like to move for admission of Exhibits

1 through 19 as provided in the notice of intent and

supplemental notice of intent and Exhibits 20 and 21 as

supplied here this morning.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Are there objections to the admissions of NMED

Exhibits 1 through 21?

Counsel?

MR. ALVIDREZ: No objection on behalf of PNM.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: No objection.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.
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They're admitted.

(Exhibits NMED 1 through 21 admitted into

evidence.)

MS. ORTH: Pursuant to our agreement in the

teleconference last Tuesday, cross-examination will be

conducted in the same order as presentation.

So, Mr. Alvidrez, do you have questions of the

Department panel?

MR. ALVIDREZ: We have no questions.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Mr. Roybal, do you have questions of the

Department panel?

MR. ROYBAL: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Okay.

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich, do you have questions?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Just a few questions,

please.

Should I sit up here?

MS. ORTH: That's great.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH:

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Good morning.

I'm Erik Schlenker-Goodrich with the Western

Environmental Law Center, representing NRDC, San Juan
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Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians.

I just had a couple quick questions about

your -- the cost estimates.

And you indicated that the reason for

switching from SCR technology in the 2010 proposal by

the Department to SNCR was based on what you viewed as

unacceptable ratepayer impacts?

MS. UHL: (Nods head.)

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: When you did that

cost analysis, did you quantify any of the benefits of

enhanced visibility protections that would have been

afforded by SCR technology?

MS. UHL: No, we did not.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Did you quantify any

of the enhanced public health benefits that would be

provided by SCR technology versus SNCR technology?

MS. UHL: No, we did not.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Would it be fair to

say that the focal point of the cost compliance analysis

was simply ratepayer impacts?

MS. UHL: That's correct, the overly

burdensome cost to ratepayers.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Was there any

balancing done in terms of economic impacts regarding

public health or enhanced visibility protections, even
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qualitative analysis?

MS. UHL: No.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: No further questions.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich.

Mr. Rose, I do see you've joined us since I

asked for appearances the first time.

Do you have questions of the Department panel?

MR. ROSE: No questions, Madam Hearing

Officer.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

Does anyone else have a question of the

Department panel based on their testimony?

Board members, do you have questions of the

Department panel?

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MR. CASCIANO: I have a question for

Ms. Bates.

You mentioned that all Class I areas in the

state had been improving in regard to visibility.

And I wondered if you could quantify that at

all or if you had any sort of summary information in

terms of some of the terms that are used, like deciviews

or -- you know, how would you -- do you have any

information beyond saying that the visibility is
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improving?

MS. BATES: We do have some tables that do

show how visibility has been improving. Now, if I can

find those.

In Section 9.2.1 and in 9 -- in Table 9-1,

which is in Section 9.2, there is information in here on

how visibility --

MR. CASCIANO: Which exhibit is that?

MS. BATES: That would be what you just

received today.

MR. CASCIANO: 20? Okay.

MS. BATES: Exhibit 20, I believe.

And it would be on pages 55 and 56. So it's

the 309(g) SIP.

MR. CASCIANO: 55 and --

MS. BATES: And 50 -- it goes on from 55 for

each Class I area through page 63, but the Table 9-1

summarizes.

MR. CASCIANO: On page 56?

MS. BATES: On 55.

That's projections. But the actual is shown

in the table -- or the figures, Figure 9-1, 9-2, 3, 4,

5 -- that should be 6 -- oh, 6, 7 and 8.

If you -- the little --

MR. CASCIANO: So are you comparing the 2004
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baseline to the 2018 projection or --

MS. BATES: That's --

MR. CASCIANO: I'm just looking for the basis

of your statement that the visibility had been improving

in the Class I areas in New Mexico.

MS. BATES: We project improvement, and we --

actually, we do show in these figures for the last --

from 2005 through 2009, the last four years, if you look

at the pollutants, they do show in most cases

improvement. It doesn't show here the actual deciview

values for these, but --

MR. CASCIANO: So those are the line graph --

MS. BATES: Yes.

MR. CASCIANO: -- tables?

MS. BATES: Yes.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

MS. BATES: And those points are actually

actual data, monitoring data from 2005 through 2009.

MR. CASCIANO: Where you see more variation in

the lines?

MS. UHL: If I may, if you look on the next

page, page 57, and you look at, for instance,

particulate organic mass, the green line, you do see

significant reductions at Bosque del Apache over the

last five years.
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MS. BATES: Yes.

MS. UHL: So some pollutants we are seeing

improvements, some pollutants we are seeing degradation.

It really depends on the pollutant. So --

But the program is rather young. This is a

program that extends through the year 2064. So the

state has a lot of time to show improvements in

visibility as the program proceeds.

MR. CASCIANO: Thank you.

MS. BATES: And Table 9-1 shows that we

project improvement on the worst days in all areas for

2018.

MR. CASCIANO: Based on these --

MS. UHL: That's based on -- no. That is

based on modeling of all controls that will take place

throughout the West, controls we expect to be enacted,

federal, state controls.

MR. CASCIANO: So it doesn't differentiate

between the future controls for the San Juan Generating

Station or --

MS. UHL: It doesn't go into that kind of

detail. No.

MS. BATES: This includes controls in other

states, as well. So it's the projection of all the

Western states and -- and also Eastern states, because
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they also impact visibility in Class I areas. This is a

regional program. So these projections include not just

the region, but also outside of the region, including

emissions from Mexico, Pacific offshore, things like

that.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

Thank you. That clarifies.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

MR. VOLKERDING: I've got a couple, and they

bounce around, so I apologize.

The first one kind of follows up on

Mr. Casciano's.

I had noticed in Exhibit 2 that the EPA -- is

that EPA is proposing to disapprove the New Mexico SIP,

da-da-da-da, because of the good neighbor requirements.

So I was just curious -- that's out of the

Federal Register. How -- what about the other states?

I mean, have all the surrounding states had their SIPs

approved by EPA, that you know of?

MS. UHL: No.

MR. VOLKERDING: No?

MS. UHL: In fact, that is not the case.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. UHL: Only some states are -- were named

in this litigation.
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MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. I see. All right.

And do you happen to know the status of the

Federal Implementation Plan for the Navajo tribe?

MS. UHL: On -- on regional haze?

MR. GRANTHAM: Four Corners.

MR. VOLKERDING: Yeah, for Four Corners.

MS. UHL: For Four Corners, the BART?

MR. VOLKERDING: Yeah.

MS. UHL: It's still in -- it's still in

proposal.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. UHL: There has not been a final yet.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. PEACOCK: With your question, there were

how many states, four or five states, in the consent

decree? Have any of those had SIPs approved?

MS. UHL: I know that Colorado has submitted

their SIP. I don't know that it's been approved yet.

MS. BATES: I don't know either. I -- EPA has

a longer timeline to approve than we have to submit, it

feels like sometimes.

MR. VOLKERDING: And this may be a better

question for PNM, but I'll start with you.

Looking through a lot of the technical

documents, there was a debate between EPA and NMED and
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PNM on the fuel at the San Juan Generating Station,

whether it was considered bituminous or subbituminous.

And I just -- was that ever resolved? I mean,

was there ever an agreement, or --

MS. UHL: The Department determined that it

was a subbituminous --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. UHL: -- classification, and that -- that

is how the BART determination has proceeded.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. That's what it looked

like, but I guess I never -- there was a lot to read, so

I apologize if that was --

MS. UHL: Right.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

And then in terms of accepting PNM's cost, is

there -- you know, it is to their advantage to propose

as high a cost as possible.

So is there any backstop or any follow-up once

all of the work is done to show that they were close, or

how does that work?

MS. UHL: There is no provision of the federal

rule that requires --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. UHL: -- a follow-up at the end to

determine the costs. All the -- all the cost estimates
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are done prior to installation.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. UHL: It could be useful information for

the future, of course, but once the controls are in

place, there wouldn't be some -- if you're -- if your

question is would at some point PNM have to take the

controls off and put on different controls --

MR. VOLKERDING: Yeah. I don't know what

exactly -- I don't know what the ramification would be.

I was just kind of curious.

MS. UHL: Yeah.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

And then there was a section -- Section 8.4 of

the SIP, and this is just a confusing statement. It

says that area emissions growth was based on EPA model

that was subsequently withdrawn by EPA.

MS. BATES: Yes.

MR. VOLKERDING: Why was it withdrawn, and

then -- but we're still relying on that -- the model.

So I just kind of wanted to hear a little bit about

that.

MS. BATES: Yes. Unfortunately, the timing

was such that by the time this was done -- and remember

this wasn't just done for New Mexico. This was done for

all Western states by the Western Regional Air
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Partnership through a contract with the contractor at

probably a very high cost.

By the time it was done, then EPA withdrew the

model. So it was kind of too late. And the EPA

determined that it really overpredicted. So we wanted

to make it clear that the area source growth is likely

overpredicted. And you will notice in some of the bar

charts, it really shows those area sources growing over

time.

Also, as you're all aware, you know, in the

last few years, we haven't had the kind of growth that

we might have expected six years ago. So models are

only good for, you know, the time that you're using

them, the data that you have. They change over time.

And that is one that did change.

MS. UHL: However, since we are projecting

improvement on the worst days with this conservative

estimate -- overestimate of area source growth --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. UHL: -- it only adds conservatism to our

analysis. So it isn't as if we are going to have to

redo this because of the area source modeling or

anything like that.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. That's all I had.

MR. BRYCE: I have one question.
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In your source analysis and your modeling, did

NMED use any baselines that were in excess of the

minimum EPA requirements, or what the SIP plan would be

requiring?

MS. UHL: I believe you're asking did the

Department make assumptions about rules that might not

be required by federal regulations? Is that where

you're -- in our baseline?

MR. BRYCE: In your baselines, yeah.

MS. UHL: Right.

MR. BRYCE: What were your baselines, and did

they result in any working SIP that is -- goes -- brings

New Mexico beyond what the federal standards would be?

MS. UHL: The simple answer is no. The

baselines simply took into account federal and state

rules that were already in place.

MR. BRYCE: Okay. Thank you.

MS. PEACOCK: I have a question back to the

consent decree.

Did the judge approve that extension to

August?

MR. GRANTHAM: He did, yes.

MS. UHL: (Nods head.)

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

MR. FULFER: Did the EPA cost analysis -- did
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it include costs associated with building the building

on an existing site versus like this going out and

building new? Did they base their cost on going and

retrofitting an existing site?

MS. UHL: We -- that's the USEPA cost

estimate, and we did not conduct a rigorous engineering

analysis of EPA's cost estimate. So we can't comment on

that.

MR. CASCIANO: Did your cost analysis contain

the operational cost? I know you had a capital cost,

but are there operational costs that are also --

MS. UHL: Yes. Those are included in the --

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

Or are you -- you're looking for the answer.

MS. UHL: Do you want me to tell you where

that is in the --

MR. CASCIANO: Sure.

MS. UHL: -- in the submittal?

Let me find it.

MR. BRYCE: We've got one copy of -- I'm not

sure if that's in Exhibit 7d.

MS. UHL: In Appendix D, Table 11 -- Tables 10

and 11, includes the -- it's the impact analysis and

cost effectiveness of additional NOx control technologies

and additional particulate matter control technologies
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in that table in the total annualized costs.

MR. CASCIANO: So it included both?

MS. UHL: Yes.

MR. CASCIANO: And does EPA have any guidance

for how you evaluate cost?

MS. UHL: Yes. USEPA has the Control Cost

Manual. But that manual also allows you to use vendor

data.

MR. CASCIANO: Yeah. I understood that it

allows you to consider cost, but I didn't understand the

criteria whether there were specific goals where -- you

know, above a certain dollar amount per ton of pollutant

was acceptable, and if it was less, then a certain

dollar amount per ton of control was not acceptable.

MS. UHL: Oh, I see, Board Member Casciano. I

understand your question, I believe, to be what is the

cutoff of what's a reasonable cost per ton of pollutant

removed, and --

MR. CASCIANO: Correct.

MS. UHL: -- and there is no bright line on

that.

MR. CASCIANO: This is what my

understanding --

MS. UHL: It's at the discretion of the state

or at the discretion of whoever is making the
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determination.

You can use historical data --

MR. CASCIANO: Right.

MS. UHL: -- to look at what's been accepted,

but there is no bright line.

MR. CASCIANO: Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

MR. FULFER: Do you feel that the -- I know

you looked at several technologies on this, but how do

you feel the technology is, how is it catching up with

coal, and how -- I guess the question is is technology

catching up and becoming feasible for implementation in

clean coal?

MS. UHL: Board Member Fulfer, there's

certainly a lot of research being done into improving

control technologies for coal-fired power plants, and

that is a continuous work.

Certainly what we have before us, the range of

options that were reviewed in this BART determination is

very robust. There is -- there is a lot to choose from

here. And I do believe that technology will continue to

evolve over time. But at this time, the technologies

are very good for improving -- or for reducing emissions

from coal-fired power plants.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?
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Mr. Grantham, do you have any follow-up?

MR. GRANTHAM: Just a couple, Madam Hearing

Officer.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

MR. GRANTHAM: And either of you can answer

this, if you can.

Does the guidelines for the BART

determination, Appendix Y of Part 51 -- does it require

consideration or quantification of benefits as part of

the BART determination?

MS. UHL: Can you clarify what kind of --

MR. GRANTHAM: Benefits such as the economic

value of visibility improving or health values of --

that are a side effect of the visibility improvement.

MS. UHL: No, it does not.

MR. GRANTHAM: It does not require that?

MS. UHL: It does not require that.

MR. GRANTHAM: Does it allow for that or

specifically mention that?

MS. UHL: I don't believe it mentions that.

No.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

And regarding the -- the question about cost

cutoffs or what is a reasonable cost, if you're able,

can you -- can you give a range of the costs that
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underlie the technologies that EPA was looking at as

presumptive standards for BART, presumptive emission

limits for BART?

MS. UHL: I think I can give a general range

on that.

As far as getting to presumptive limits,

plants in the US that have looked at meeting presumptive

limits, the costs might be anywhere from $800 per ton

removed to about $2,000, $3,000 ton -- per ton removed.

But that's certainly just a ballpark. It's not a hard

and fast number. But generally that's the range that

I've seen from the BART determinations I've looked at.

MR. GRANTHAM: Okay. Thank you.

No more questions.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you very much.

Is there any reason not to excuse the

Department panel?

Hearing none, thank you very much.

Let's turn now -- if the Board would like a

break, this is a good time, or we can turn to accepting

public comment.

MS. PEACOCK: Let's do -- does anybody need a

break?

Public is fine.

MS. ORTH: We're all right?
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All right. We're going to turn now from the

technical case to accept some public comment.

I have the first four sign-in sheets. I will

call you in the order in which you signed in if you

indicated that you'd like to give public comment.

Please sign in if you haven't done so. No

salesmen will call. We use the sign-in sheets as

evidence of public participation and for the correct

spelling of your name for the -- for the transcript.

You can change your mind. If you indicated

that you didn't want to make public comment and now you

do, that's fine. If you said that you did and now you

didn't, that's fine, as well.

And as I said, you are certainly welcome to

submit your public comment in writing.

Comment is taken under oath, and the Board may

have questions of you.

Because we have not hordes of people, I will

not pull out my stopwatch with the three-minute timer.

I will ask you to keep your comments under five minutes.

There are a couple dozen folks who want to speak.

So Carla Sonntag.

MS. SONNTAG: I have written comments, too.

Should I give them to you?

MS. ORTH: Yes, please.
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Thank you.

MS. SONNTAG: Thank you.

CARLA SONNTAG

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. SONNTAG: Yes. Carla Sonntag, C-A-R-L-A

S-O-N-N-T-A-G.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. SONNTAG: Good morning.

My name is Carla Sonntag. I'm the executive

director of the New Mexico Utility Shareholders

Alliance.

And I'm here to talk to you today about Case

Number EIB 11-01, the regional haze proposal at San

Juan.

The New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance

represents about 7,000 people, shareholders of gas and

electric utility companies operating in the state. The

vast majority of those are PNM shareholders. But

something that's important to keep in mind, they're also

ratepayers. And I am here today to urge you to please

adopt the State Implementation Plan as proposed by the
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New Mexico Environmental Department.

NMUSA supports clean air and good visibility,

but much has already been accomplished at this plant in

regards to both of those initiatives. PNM spent

$320 million in 2009 on environmental upgrades to reduce

pollutants and improve visibility in the region.

In combination with what's being proposed with

the SCNR, we believe that you're going to have -- I'm

sorry -- the SNCR technology at the plant, it will

address the cost effectiveness requirements of the

federal regulations with respect to haze reduction and

technology costs.

It's going to further improve visibility. It

will lower NOx emissions by 4,900 tons per year. This

would be a total of 54 percent reduction of NOx when

combined with the 2009 upgrade.

The state plan will also reduce the cost of

required upgrades significantly from the federal

proposal for the selective catalytic reduction

technology.

An internal survey of our members showed that

the vast majority are retirees on a fixed income. Over

72 percent are 65 years or older, and 47 percent of them

have an annual income of less than $50,000.

Our members support the state's plan because
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it provides balance between minimizing costs and

protecting the environment.

I want to thank you for your consideration,

and I hope you'll give serious consideration to all the

elements of the two proposals, and keep in mind the

impact on ratepayers in the third poorest state in the

nation.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Sonntag.

Board, I'm not going to invite questions every

time. If you would, if you have a question, please

speak up.

James and Donna Crawford.

JAMES CRAWFORD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name.

MR. CRAWFORD: James Crawford, J-A-M-E-S

C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. CRAWFORD: Madam Chairman and EIB Board

members, I'm willing to take the blame from Felicia, but

I wasn't the one -- I wasn't the one you wrote to, so --
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anyway, just to make that straight.

I'm James Crawford, I'm from Los Lunas, New

Mexico. And I'm just an interested citizen representing

myself.

I, in fact, read the hundreds of pages of

material in this case that contained enough charts,

tables, graphs and impressive mathematical formulas to

make one's head spin.

It really is a dazzling display of

pseudoscience, but when one cuts through all of the

mush, the question is is there any logical common sense

result? And I'd have to say I think not.

This hearing is about visibility. This is a

visibility rule, haze rule, in Class I federal

wilderness and national park areas.

So how is visibility measured? Visibility is

measured with a deciview, one deciview representing the

change in visibility that's perceptible to the human

eye. More deciviews mean more haze. There's probably a

hundred of them over Santa Fe this morning. Zero

deciviews mean no haze.

So if the deciviews change is less than 1, who

cares? No one can tell the difference.

Now, the only action item being considered in

this plan is which technology is going to be mandated
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for the San Juan Generating Station.

You know, the owners of San Juan have spent

millions, about $320 million on already cleaning up the

air. Now they're being asked to spend as much as a

billion dollars more. This additional obscene amount of

money is being spent to achieve no noticeable change in

visibility. The benefit/cost ratio for this project is

zero.

Other than paying my bill to PNM each month, I

have no allegiance to the owners of San Juan. However,

I do resent them spending millions of dollars that would

be passed on to us ratepayers for zero benefit.

Analysis of the economic effects of this

proposal are virtually nonexistent. Please remember

that this plan is about visibility only. EPA -- EIB is

being used as a pawn in an overt fight to close San Juan

Generating Station.

You're going to hear from a number of sources

throughout this hearing that openly advocate for closing

San Juan. You're going to hear rants about things from

disease epidemics to global warming as justifications

for ever increasing and ever more expensive restrictions

on San Juan just to bring it to its knees.

These arguments are unrelated to visibility.

You must stay focused on whether the massive investments
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yield any perceptible improvement in visibility.

Unfortunately, you're being presented with a

no win situation. NMED has proposed a plan costing over

$77 million to achieve less than one-fourth of one

perceptible unit of improvement in visibility. You're

being blackmailed to approve the proposed plan. If you

don't approve the NMED plan, a worse plan preferred by

USEPA is the only alternative, costing as much as a

billion dollars.

Choosing the least damaging of two

unreasonable and ineffective alternatives is insane. A

competent analysis should include all reasonable

alternatives, including not taking any action at all.

Will visibility change if the proposed action

is not implemented? The answer is a definite no. There

will be no perceptible change in visibility. But there

will be a perceptible change in everyone's electric

bills.

Thank you very much. That's kind of my

summary. I have more detail that I submitted in

writing, and I can give a written -- maybe you already

have mine.

MS. ORTH: (Shakes head.)

MR. CRAWFORD: No?

I don't have eight.
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MS. ORTH: Thank you so much.

Judith Williams.

MS. WILLIAMS: Madam Chair --

THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right

hand, please.

JUDY WILLIAMS

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you please state and

spell your full name.

MS. WILLIAMS: Judy Williams, J-U-D-Y

W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. WILLIAMS: I represent the League of Women

Voters of New Mexico.

Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you

today.

We already submitted a letter in writing. I

have, unfortunately, only two extra copies. But if any

of you are interested in having it passed around, I'd

love to have you read it, and I hope you will later.

The League of Women Voters of the United

States advocated for the Clean Air Act and has been

pressing for its full implementation ever since. This
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advocacy included strengthening air pollution controls

on government and industry, notwithstanding the higher

prices and taxes that might result.

The EIB is required by law to consider the

human and environmental health impacts, the public

interest, including social and economic factors, beyond

the narrow interests of the power company, and make a

thorough and objective analysis of the costs and

effectiveness of its proposals.

This has not been done.

The League of Women Voters of New Mexico

understands that the Department's recommendation in 2010

included the selective catalytic reduction, or SCR,

technology consistent with EPA's proposed Federal

Implementation Plan, but it is not -- the Department is

now reverse course and supports a technology which will

result in a significant increase in nitrous -- nitrogen

oxide emissions over the SCR.

The League is troubled by the Department's

about-face in this matter, raising significant concerns

about whether the Department is adequately considering

the public's interest in the promulgation of the revised

haze rule.

Without a compelling explanation of why the

SNCR technology is in the public interest, the League of
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Women Voters of New Mexico urges the EIB to reject the

Department's proposed revisions to the haze rule. The

League supports the SCR technology and urges the EIB and

the Department to disregard the self-serving cost

estimates provided by the industry.

New Mexicans deserve a complete explanation

from the Department about why its newfound support for

the SNCR is in the public's interest.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Williams.

Lisa Law.

LISA LAW

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name.

MS. LAW: Lisa, L-I-S-A, Law, L-A-W.

Board members and people in the audience, I

lived here 44 years, and I've watched what's happened to

our air and our -- a lot what's happened in Los Alamos,

and of the promises that we were made to keep our state

clean.

I'm looking for our state to be an example for

other states. At this point at Los Alamos, we are now
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about to have more triggers built for atomic bombs,

$400 million, I think, at the facility. This is after

we were promised to reduce nuclear triggers.

I think that we should take the money that is

spent at Los Alamos and develop proper solar and wind

generation for our energy and stop using coal, which is

dirty. This about cleaning up the air, visibility, it's

all a bunch of cover-up. I think we have to use our

money, the taxpayers' money, to properly develop solar

and wind energy.

I am -- I have a house in Embudo, which is

totally off the grid. I provide enough energy to

facilitate the ranch, and I have for the last 16 years.

So I think, as Mr. Crawford said, you're going

to hear from a lot of people. I liked what he had to

say, that we should use our money and stop using coal

altogether, which is dirty.

Also, you have to get coal through

strip-mining. We've watched what's happened to the

Indians when they strip-mined at Big Mountain. We

relocated over 10,000 Indians and wrecked their lives.

They became alcoholics. The elders died. The Indians

are not being thought about when it comes to coal.

So I think we should get rid of coal totally

and develop -- because we have a lot of sun, we have a
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lot of wind, as you noticed this month and last month

and the month before, that we can provide enough energy

for this state and be an example for other states of how

we can have clean energy from now on in the future.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Law.

Bruce Madden.

BRUCE MADDEN

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name.

MR. MADDEN: Bruce, B-R-U-C-E, Madden,

M-A-D-D-E-N.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. MADDEN: I first moved to this state in

1969, and one of the first things I did was go to the

Sandia Peak. And I was awestruck at the pristine

quality of the air, at the views from the Magdalenas up

to the San Juans. Fell in love, been here ever since.

That's not there anymore. I go there often.

That's long gone. So we're passed that. Maybe my

grandkids will have that view again some day, but not if

we continue to misunderstand costs.
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We're talking -- I heard reference to

visibility as being the issue. Well, the visibility

problem is created by particles that are made up of

various substances. And those particles are just

clearly not good for humans to breathe. So if you want

to discuss business climate, you might want to first

start by discussing the human climate.

I did hear that no health considerations were

made when estimating the costs involved in choosing the

various technologies. That's patently foolish. The

Four Corners Generating Station is, I believe, about the

12th worst in the country for mercury production.

Mercury is clearly a poison. We all know it.

When I hear costs, I also hear nothing about

jobs and revenue streams. Now, if there is cost to make

improvements, that's not throwing bagful of money into

the -- into the boiler and burning it up. That's

contractors, that's engineers, that's all kinds of

technicians.

And by the way, I'm a retired computer

engineer.

There are people building pumps and all kinds

of equipment across the country that can use those jobs.

Those people pay taxes. Those revenues will come into

the state. So I doubt that those benefits, the benefits
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of the jobs, have been considered either.

I've heard mention of technology and emerging

technologies and improvements in technology. Well, I am

all for developing technologies and have been involved

in all kinds of technology developments, but technology

is not useful unless it is implemented. And you folks

are the folks that make the decisions to implement

technologies that are available.

And those benefits flow to not only people in

this state, but people across the country, and people

across the country do need those jobs. And if we lead

in these areas, rather than race to the bottom with some

of the other states, we will reap those benefits in the

long run. And when I think of my daughters, that's what

I'm thinking, in the long run.

A few weeks ago, I drove my daughter back from

graduating from college, and we crossed the Mojave

Desert. There's an enormous facility that's built out

there, and it's almost done, and it's built in under

four years, and it will generate as much power as a very

large coal plant, except that the source of that energy

are photons from the sun, and it is also a

cost-effective plant.

Why aren't we starting to think in those

directions? Maybe keep what we have as long as we need
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it, and keep it as clean as we can, but think ahead, not

just to a year out, two years out.

I think that's pretty much what I have to say.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Madden.

Ellen Caldwell.

Marlene Perrotte.

MARLENE PERROTTE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. PERROTTE: Marlene, M-A-R-L-E-N-E,

Perrotte, P-as-in-Peter-E-R-R-O-T-T-E.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. PERROTTE: You're welcome.

Good morning.

These are ominous times. And our planet today

is speaking loud and clear to all of us about our air,

our water and our soil, the very existence of our

planet.

And I come here as a sister of mercy, living

and working in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I testify on

behalf of all the children who celebrate today and for
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all who will be born, for they are beloved children of

God and deserve clean air, clean water and a strong

healthy community that looks to the future, not to the

past, not to agreed, not to money for stockholders.

I'm here because burning coal is a moral

issue. The Four Corners Power Plant is one of the

nation's dirtiest. Coal is a dirty and dangerous fuel

source, and burning coal is in direct conflict with

religious values of stewardship, sustainability, justice

and respect for life.

The carbon emissions, the toxic mercury and

haze generated by burning coal all have far-reaching

health effects. At some moment, we must say no to dirty

coal-fired plants and the problems they are creating for

health, the environment and climate change, especially

for our brothers and sisters throughout the planet who

are suffering extreme droughts. And that is here in New

Mexico. People suffering from the floods and the

disruption of food production.

Coal-fired plants are a major part of the

endangerment of the life support systems for all that

God created for all people. It is the poor and often

indigenous people who have contributed least to this

problem, who will suffer the most.

Inaction cannot be an option. Money spent to
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extend the life of the remaining two units of this power

plant might be used better to move toward a clean energy

future. We must transition to clean energy sources that

support life. As we transition to clean energy, we must

work to remediate and restore the land and communities

that have been degraded and economically exploited from

coal mining.

We support programs to provide job training,

to displace coal workers and restoration of degraded

lands. Each of us needs to speak truth even though it

is not accepted within the current reality. Today our

world is in need of a radical change, and a transition

to clean energy is part of this change.

Now, I went to the hearing in Farmington, and

the EPA had a slide presentation, and there was a map

that showed the extension of the pollution. I could not

get that map, but I do refer you to this map. It was

the slide presentation that was given, the overview of

EPA proposals for Four Corners Power Plant.

And it was just the San Juan. And I think if

you could superimpose, the -- the radius goes all the

way through Albuquerque, et cetera, from Farmington -- I

mean from the Four Corners.

So please, do not compromise our future. We

look to you to protect us from the public sovereignty of
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our resources. We must stop and put -- and challenge us

to the highest level, not to the most compromising, base

level. Greed cannot be the element that drives this

decision. Hold us to the highest level of technology

that's possible.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Perrotte.

Joan Brown.

JOAN BROWN

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you please state and

spell your full name.

MS. BROWN: Sister Joan Brown, J-O-A-N

B-R-O-W-N.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. BROWN: Good morning.

And thank you for hearing our comments as

public concerned citizens.

My name is Sister Joan Brown. I'm a

Franciscan, and I'm the executive director of New Mexico

InterFaith Power and Light, an organization of faith

communities all across the state that work on creation

care, specifically concerned with climate change and how
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that affects us in New Mexico and our brothers and

sisters throughout the planet. We see this as a moral,

ethical and a spiritual concern.

The whole issue of haze we're addressing today

really, I think, is a superficial indicator of other

grave concerns of pollution and of emissions that are

causing many other things. So I think that we need to

address this on a deeper level.

Yesterday in Albuquerque Journal, in A Diary

on the Planet, there was a little piece I thought was

interesting, and it stated that the dramatic swings

between very wet, very dry and catastrophically stormy

weather are likely to be the norm from now on, according

to scientists who point to an overall warmer global

climate as the source of new meteorological reality.

And this is a quote. "It is a new normal, and

I really do think that global weirding is the best way

to describe what -- what we're seeing."

Now, you might think this is from somebody off

the charts, but it was not. It was a climate scientist,

Katherine Hayhoe, from Texas Tech University, not from

someplace in the East Coast or the West Coast. She was

meeting with business people who were quite concerned

about this issue, and they were trying to see how they

could address the implications of all of this pollution
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and what it was causing with the climate and weather

patterns.

So this is a localized issue, but it's also an

international issue. And as a member at -- and the

member and partner faith communities of New Mexico

InterFaith Power and Light believe that the current

technology of burning coal to produce electricity

carries huge societal costs around air and water

pollution and is one of the most significant drivers of

climate disruption. These external costs are not

captured in the price of coal power.

Every step of the current coal-fired process

is dangerous to human health, from mining and processing

to burning and storage of the waste ash. And those most

often impacted by these dangerous processes are the most

vulnerable members of our communities, the poor, the

elderly and the children.

And I think it's interesting to note that

Washington State, with the help of the InterFaith Power

Light businesses and other organizations, just closed a

coal-fired power plant through their legislative

process. We at NMIPL support strong standards to reduce

the emission from coal-fired power plants because it's a

matter of health, haze, health, and the long-term future

of the planet.
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The proposed 2010 EPA implementation of

safeguards to reduce pollution by 80 percent was

supported by New Mexico Environmental Department in

2010, and we at NMIPL are rather dismayed that NMED is

considering weakening these safeguards at the San Juan

Generating Station from that 80 percent reduction to a

20 percent reduction.

As faith leaders devoted to the common good,

we are opposed to this change and do not understand the

justification for it. Some might argue that

implementing the original goals would be too costly, but

pollution is already exacting an enormous cost from the

people of our state and our brothers and sisters

everywhere, in terms of health and quality of life.

Our faith communities provide support to the

economically poor through our food pantries, with energy

assistance, emergency assistance, and we will continue

to be those people out there aiding and walking with our

brothers and sisters.

But we have a moral responsibility to protect

the air that has been given to us by the creator and to

safeguard the present and the future health of infants

and children and the value which we cannot calculate in

dollars and cents.

The Pontifical Academy of Sciences, appointed
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by Pope Benedict of the Vatican, recently published a

report in which they said, "We appeal to all nations to

develop and implement, without delay, effective and fair

policies to reduce the causes and impacts of climate

change on communities and ecosystems, including mountain

glaciers and their watersheds, aware that we all live in

the same home."

The report further said, "We are committed to

ensuring that all inhabitants of this planet receive

their daily bread, fresh air to breathe and clean water

to drink as we are aware of that, we want justice and

peace, and we must protect the habitat that sustains

us." End of quote, from the Pontifical Academy of

Sciences of the Vatican.

So in conclusion, we are people of hope. We

believe in life, and we believe that we need to protect

life, from conception until death. And we recognize

that the transition to clean energy is complex and

requires financial investments, but we have great faith

in the ingenuity and leadership and moral integrity of

our government leaders and business executives and the

citizens of New Mexico.

If we spent funds on renewables, the costs

would decrease. In one way or another, we are going to

have to spend money to get ourselves out of the
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situation that we're in. We believe that we can come

together despite the challenges to move towards a clean

energy economy and a healthy future for our children and

our grandchildren, and it is a moral, ethical and a

justice imperative.

And I will submit to you all electronically a

letter that's being signed by faith leaders throughout

the state, which include Episcopal Bishop Vaughan,

Reverend Donna McNiel who is the director of New Mexico

Conference of Churches, the New Mexico InterFaith Power

and Light board and directors, Reverend Holly Beaumont

who is the organizing director for Interfaith Worker

Justice, and numerous pastors who are Catholic,

Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodists and others

throughout the state.

So I thank you for your attention this day.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Brown.

Juan Reynosa.

JUAN REYNOSA

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you please state and

spell your full name.

MR. REYNOSA: Juan Reynosa, J-U-A-N
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R-E-Y-N-O-S-A.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. REYNOSA: Hello, all.

Thank you all for giving me this chance to

come up here and give a comment today. I've been

working a lot on this issue, so I appreciate the time

today.

My name is Juan Reynosa, and I'm an organizer

with the Sierra Club here in New Mexico based out of

Albuquerque. I've been heavily involved within the EPA

regional haze process that's been going on for both San

Juan Generating Station, as well as Four Corners Power

Plant more recently.

During this time, being a part of these

hearings, I saw numerous people commenting on the

effects of haze in the region, many people who have

lived there for decades commenting about the thick,

yellow smoke that goes along the San Juan River and how

that has affected people for generations. Many people

have noticed impacts to this.

Many people talked about the impacts upon the

tourism department, which, as you know, New Mexico is a

very rural state, with a lot of beautiful, natural

landscape, so we definitely rely heavily on this as a

revenue stream within New Mexico. So that is definitely
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one thing to consider as we look at these Class I areas

that are affected by the haze from San Juan Generating

Station.

And to reference what Marlene was talking

about with the map of the regional haze areas that were

affected, that map showed 16 Class I areas. And I will

also note that one of my Navajo Coalition partners

noticed that there are also six Navajo-designated

environmental areas within that radius that are also

affected that hadn't been noted.

So yes, it does affect people through the

haze, but I also saw many testimonies from grandparents

talking about their grandchildren, waking up in the

middle of the night with asthma attacks, to also young

teenagers talking about growing up and seeing how many

of their friends in Farmington have contracted asthma.

So while many will say this is only about

regional haze, there have definitely been scientific

links between the ground level smog, which is caused by

NOx emissions, and the health impacts on that. So I

would definitely like to note that, that many people in

the area have noted that during the hearings, and you

could reference those notes to see many of those

testimonies.

As a Sierra Club representative, we would like
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to see the best available technology installed on the

San Juan Generating Station to decrease emissions of

nitrogen oxides. We feel this technology is selective

catalytic reduction and not the selective noncatalytic

reduction that the state and PNM are proposing.

We think that with this EPA proposal, that we

are starting to realize the true cost of coal. San Juan

Generating Station had one retrofit in 2009, but before

that, they had not had any in the past. Four Corners,

as well, is also lacking in that.

So I think when we talk about in terms of

cost, we are talking about realizing the true costs of

coal. They've been getting off easy, and now they're

having to pay and be accountable for the pollution that

they've emitted.

We also think the state should be taking into

account other viable data into the recommendation

instead of basing their proposal solely on data provided

by PNM. PNM is, obviously, a biased party in this,

since they are the majority owner of the plant, and thus

would have to pay the majority of the costs.

Yet we see that the EPA has proposed numbers

that are definitely significantly lower than what the

state has proposed. They put that in both their BART

proposal for the San Juan Generating Station, and as was
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noted during the presentation, they also sent a letter

to you all and the Environment Department again noting

those numbers and the big discrepancy between costs.

We still hold true that the cost of -- for SCR

is cost effective and necessary. And again, as someone

just noted, it will also be opportunity for jobs. We --

many people are looking at this as something that's

taking away from the community. We should also look at

this as an opportunity.

This is bringing jobs in not only through

retrofits, but it also brings an opportunity to start

transitioning over to renewables. Many people in that

area are also looking towards opportunities in that.

And I would guess if you could ask a PNM ratepayer if

they were able to get a job out of this, would they be

willing to also pay a little bit more, and many people

in this area are in need of jobs, and so there is an

opportunity that many people would not want to pass up.

So this proposal needs to take more into

account, as well as I referenced the health impacts,

from the tourism impacts, how much dollars we get from

that.

So while PNM also uses the -- and the state is

using the excuse that this is a big impact on

ratepayers, we are also seeing that there's a current
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rate case going on with PNM right now, and I don't

necessarily see them using that excuse when they're

using -- when they're asking for a rate increase from

their ratepayers.

So in conclusion, myself and the 6,000-plus

members of Sierra Club in New Mexico stand in opposition

of this state SIP proposal and instead still stand

behind the cost-effective and just proposal of the EPA

to install SCR controls on the San Juan Generating

Station.

Thank you for your time.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Reynosa.

Virginia Miller.

Is Ms. Miller here?

MS. NOEL: Are you saying Sue Noel?

MS. ORTH: Virginia Miller.

MS. MILLER: Yeah, right here.

VIRGINIA MILLER

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. MILLER: My name is Virginia J. Miller,

and I'm a resident of Santa Fe, New Mexico.
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Thank you for listening, members of the Board

and the community.

Please strengthen the New Mexico Environmental

Improvement Board plan to reduce nitrogen oxide and

other harmful pollutants at the San Juan coal plant in

Northwest New Mexico to at least match the current EPA

plan, which is much stronger. It is way past time to

take curbing global warming seriously and create

conditions for health of both our people and

environment.

Clean energy alternatives exist. Develop

them. The San Juan coal plant emissions are a big

contributor to the harsh realities of climate change and

health problems, asthma, emphysema and other respiratory

diseases, and even premature death.

People leave polluted areas, urban areas to

visit New Mexico's beautiful national parks, hoping to

find clean air to breathe. I moved to New Mexico to

find cleaner air to breathe.

So I'm asking you to please recommend

pollution reductions equal to the current EPA plan or

stronger.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Miller.

Those are the names of the folks who both
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signed in and put a check or X in the Yes column. There

will be -- thank you.

There will be other opportunities to offer

public comment. I'll invite public comment at the end

of every party's -- technical party's presentation.

Is there anyone else who must give comment

this morning before we take a break?

No?

Thank you.

Board, are we ready for a break?

MS. PEACOCK: Yes.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Let's take 15 minutes.

(Proceedings in recess from 11:08 a.m. to

11:27 a.m.)

MS. ORTH: All right, folks. Let's come back

from the break, please.

Before the break, we completed the

Department's presentation and also accepted several

public commenters.

We turn now to the presentation by the Public

Service Company of New Mexico.

Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes. Thank you, Madam Hearing

Examiner, Madam Chairman, members of the Board.
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My name is Rick Alvidrez, and I'm the attorney

for Public Service Company of New Mexico, PNM, in this

case.

And I have a very few brief opening remarks

that I hope will aid the Board in its consideration of

the matters before it today and for the next couple of

days.

As you know, we're here to consider a

regulation on regional haze. And I think it's important

to note that that really is the focus in terms of this

Board's assessment of the adequacy of the NMED proposal,

that is does this meet the federal requirements under

the federal Regional Haze Rule.

There certainly has been a lot of discussion

about other matters, health-related effects and what

have you, but those matters are really not before the

Board. The question before the Board is does this

regulation meet the requirements.

And, of course, PNM has submitted testimony in

this case to support the measures that the NMED is

proposing with respect to the San Juan Generating

Station, which is a generating station at issue in this

case, not the Four Corners Generating Station which has

been referred to by some commenters.

In our case, we will be supporting the NMED
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position and presenting testimony of Patrick Themig, who

is vice-president of generation. Mr. Themig will talk

about PNM a little bit, provide some overview about San

Juan, its importance to New Mexico as an electric

supplier, as well as its economic importance to the Four

Corners area.

Mr. Themig will also talk about the recent

environmental upgrades that PNM has undertaken at San

Juan at the cost of in excess of $300 million and the

positive benefits in terms of air emissions that have

resulted from those upgrades and that investment by the

San Juan owners.

And he will also talk about why PNM supports

the NMED proposal, BART proposal with respect to San

Juan.

We'll also be presenting Gerard Ortiz, who is

executive director of New Mexico retail services for

Public Service Company of New Mexico. And Mr. Ortiz is

going to address the rate impacts of the technology,

selective catalytic reduction, or SCR, and also SNCR,

selective noncatalytic reduction, which is embodied in

the NMED proposal.

So the Board will have that testimony to

consider in terms of assessing the economics and the

cost effectiveness of the various technologies that have
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been considered.

And we will also be presenting two witnesses

from Black & Veatch, which is the contractor that PNM

hired to undertake the BART analysis back in 2007 and

continued on working on that project to the present

time.

You will hear from Diane Fischer and Kyle

Lucas, both of whom have extensive experience with

respect to BART determinations and more specifically

pollution control technology, including SCR. And they

will be able to answer your questions about the cost

effectiveness and their analysis of the various

technologies that were considered, why some technologies

were considered as cost effective, why some were not.

And they will also be able to detail the

differences between the EPA proposal for SCR for San

Juan that's embodied in the FIP versus the differences

and the costs that PNM has submitted.

I would note that the issue before this Board,

the proposal before this Board really is the NMED

proposal. That is, there has been no -- no testimony,

no technical testimony submitted in this case that would

support a determination that SCR is appropriate for San

Juan.

No party has come forward with technical
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testimony to support that. While there have certainly

been comments, public comments, that urge the Board to

go in that direction, from a technical and evidentiary

standpoint, there simply isn't any evidence before this

Board to consider or to require implementation of SCR in

this case.

And I also, finally, do want to highlight a

significant development with respect to the choices

between the two technologies that occurred.

You heard, of course, the NMED talk about the

cost impact to ratepayers as being a very significant

consideration in their determination that SCR was too

expensive.

But from a technology and BART standard

standpoint, there was another significant difference

that occurred between PNM's initial submittal of its

BART determination and the present, and that had to do

with SNCR technology and the ability of that technology

to achieve what the EPA has classified as the

presumptive limit for NOx.

And with the developments that have taken

place in the past few years, it became apparent that

SNCR technology could, in fact, reach the EPA's own

presumptive limit for NOx. So by the adoption of SNCR

technology, the EPA's presumptive limit for NOx will be
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met. And we think that that is a critical element in

terms of this Board's consideration of the factors in

the BART determination process.

And we also note that in terms of the modeling

that has taken place, you've heard about the WRAP

modeling and the numbers that were used to calculate

whether reasonable progress could be made, that that

presumptive limit, the .23 limit, will beat the .27

limit that WRAP set as the goal to stay on track to --

to meet the reasonable progress goals for visibility.

So with that, what I would like to do now is

call our first witness, Patrick Themig, to testify in

this case.

If I may proceed.

MS. ORTH: All right.

If you would have all of your witnesses here

sworn in.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Okay. Let me have all -- all

of the witnesses who will be testifying on behalf of PNM

stand up now and go ahead and be sworn in.

(PATRICK THEMIG, GERARD T. ORTIZ, DIANE M.

FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS were duly sworn or

affirmed.)

MS. ORTH: Please go ahead.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you.
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PATRICK THEMIG

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ALVIDREZ:

Q. Mr. Themig, can you please state your name for

the record?

A. My name is Patrick Themig. That's

P-A-T-R-I-C-K T-as-in-Tom-H-E-M-I-G.

Q. And, Mr. Themig, can you tell us where you're

employed?

A. I'm employed with PNM as vice-president in

generation.

Q. And have you prepared and have filed on behalf

of Public Service Company of New Mexico prefiled written

testimony in this case, which has been marked as PNM

Exhibit A?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. And do you have any changes to that testimony?

A. No, I do not.

Q. And sitting under oath here, do you now adopt

that prefiled testimony as yours in this case?

A. I do.

Q. Mr. Themig, can you briefly provide the Board

with a summary of your experience and educational
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background relevant to the matters in this case?

A. Sure. I've been in the utility business going

on 35 years, holding a number of capacities from

engineering plant operations to construction in the

facilities. I have a degree in mechanical engineering

technology.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, we would move

the admission of PNM Exhibit A into evidence.

MS. ORTH: Objections?

Hearing none, it's admitted.

(Exhibit PNM A admitted into evidence.)

Q. (BY MR. ALVIDREZ) Mr. Themig, can you briefly

summarize for the Board the salient elements of your

testimony?

A. Sure. I'd be happy to.

San Juan generating facility is a critical

resource for PNM. It provides base load capacity. And

that base load capacity is different than what you might

see from, say, a renewable source or intermittent

source. It provides it low cost, reliable and safe,

providing energy to 500,000 PNM customers, another

500,000 New Mexico customers for other owners, and then

roughly a million customers from other states.

The plant is -- has got an interesting

ownership structure. PNM is the only party that owns an
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interest in four units. We own half of Units 1 and 2,

we own half of Unit 3, and we own 37 percent of Unit 4.

And then there are various owners, another owner in

Units 1 and 2, there's two other owners in Unit 3, and

there's five other owners in Unit 4. So it's kind of an

interesting makeup of the ownership structure.

And the reason that's kind of important is

that when you look at capital investments, it's not just

a PNM decision that's made by this ownership structure.

It's from a process that's developed under participation

agreements and other agreements that support the

project.

PNM has the San Juan coal -- the San Juan

Generating Station. We also own an interest in the Four

Corners Plant. And just for clarification, Four Corners

is roughly seven miles south of the -- the San Juan

River and San Juan Generating Station is roughly six

miles north of San Juan River.

We also own nuclear, which is base load

resource. We own wind, and we own solar, and we own

natural gas resources. And the natural gas resources

are really kind of designed to regulate the system

for -- for the intermittency of such things as

renewable.

Unfortunately, though, we don't always run
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natural gas units. There are times when the only thing

we have on to regulate with is San Juan, and San Juan

tends to act in that capacity to regulate on the

intermittence.

San Juan facility employs roughly 400

full-time equivalents. The San Juan Coal Company, which

is the exclusive provider of coal, employs over 500

full-time equivalents. And of those, San Juan, roughly

22 percent are Native American, at the San Juan

generating facility, roughly 44 percent from the San

Juan Coal Company are Native American.

So this provides a very reliable and stable

economic value to employees in the Four Corners area.

It's important to realize that the San Juan

facility has an annual payroll of roughly $56 million.

We pay coal royalties of roughly 55 million per year,

and these are annual -- annual payments, 6.4 million to

San Juan County in property taxes. 30 million goes to

material supplies that we need to run the facility, like

limestone and other -- other costs that are needed. And

then roughly 4 hundred million is spent on contract

services that -- that help support the maintenance

activities, the ongoing operational activities.

So you can see that the facility provides a

very, very strong economic stimulus to the Four Corners
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area and to the State of New Mexico in general.

In 2005, PNM embarked on environmental

upgrades, and three of which contributed to reduction in

haze. Total cost, as been referenced earlier, was

$320 million.

And the technologies that were deployed were

pulse-jet fabric filters, and that is to collect

particulate matter which directly impacts regional haze;

sulfur reduction, there was a 71 percent reduction in

sulfur, which is another contributor; and NOx, and the

NOx was a combustion modification that reduced our

nitrogen oxide emissions by roughly 44 percent.

So there's not a lot of discussion going on

around the first two, which are SO2 reduction and

particulate matter, because this plant is best available

control technology on those two. So the focus is on the

NOx.

And while our BART analysis that was

conducted -- and there will be members of -- that you

will hear from later that will talk about the analysis

and what went into the analysis. While that analysis

concludes that those control upgrades that PNM and the

owners invested in from 2005 to 2009 meet BART, pursuant

to the criteria, PNM is supporting the proposal by the

state.
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And the reason is it furthers the goal of

additional NOx and SO2 emission reductions, and it -- but

it does so with a balance on cost impact to our

customers. So we're supporting that.

And thank you for my time.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you, Madam Hearing

Examiner.

We'd tender this witness for questioning.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

Mr. Grantham, do you have questions?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Roybal?

MR. ROYBAL: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Rose?

MR. ROSE: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: No questions.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Thank you very much, Mr. Themig.

Oh. I'm sorry. The Board. Very sorry.

Does the Board have questions of Mr. Themig

based on his testimony?

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MR. BRYCE: I have one quick question.
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The multi-million -- $77 million, or whatever

the real number is, that is to be expensed under the

SNCR plan, how difficult is it to accept that if you

thought you may already meet the best available

technology criteria with the upgrades you've already

done?

MR. THEMIG: It's always difficult to accept

additional cost to a facility. But one has to look at

what the alternatives are with the federal EPA proposal

that's out there, which is -- which is, you know,

borderline billion dollar investment, and if we look at

what the state has proposed, which again furthers

this -- this goal of achieving a visibility by 2064,

that's 53 years out in the future, we believe this

actually takes that next step towards achieving that

2064 goal.

MR. BRYCE: When I look long-term, you know,

wise investment in the short-term seems to be the goal,

and if long-term, say 50 years from now, or much more

clean energy than we are today.

I guess my first question is how many years --

what's the useful life of the current plant? How many

more years? Is it 50 years, or how long do you think

the plant will be continuing to run?

MR. THEMIG: We currently have a depreciation
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schedule that takes us out to 2053 time frame.

MR. BRYCE: Likely to be an extension after

that, or --

MR. THEMIG: There could be. It all depends,

and it depends on what the total cost impact is of

either future regulations or other technologies that

might emerge.

If the country embarks on a nuclear program to

develop base load -- and that's what we really need, is

base load replacement for a facility like San Juan. You

know, if the country embarks on it and embraces nuclear

programs, that ultimately may be a more cost-effective

resource for us in -- sometime out in the future.

But that will be determined by -- you know, we

do this integrated resource planning process that looks

at all the variables, all the contributors that tie to a

resource that we have, and through that public process

there comes out a plan that's like a three-year or

five-year plan.

So hopefully we'll have solutions for the

future that make sense.

MR. BRYCE: We hear lots of comments from

people with renewable energy and solar and wind and

intermittent sources. And nuclear -- is there

anything -- I might be off topic here.
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Is there anything that the public should know

about the viability of nuclear for the future?

Because it seems to have been on hold for so

long that it seems to have dropped off the radar screen.

MR. THEMIG: As I said, PNM owns -- we own

400 megawatts of Palo Verde Nuclear Station's base load.

Two of the units are part of the jurisdictional load

serving New Mexico. The Unit 3 is a merchant --

merchant load, but very reliable, very safe.

Now, you may argue that looking at what's

taken place in Japan, but those were very, very unusual

circumstances with -- that contributed to the issues

that are there.

We are currently studying some of the new

nuclear technologies. There are some designs that are

on the drawing board that are for small nuclear modular

reactors, that are actually built underground, that are

in the 125- to 200-megawatt range, that could be

disbursed across various service areas, and we're

looking at that. It's some years off.

I think the first company that's committed to

one of those technologies was TVA, and they're looking

at 10 to 12 years before that first unit goes

commercial.

So through that time frame, between now and
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then, we'll continue to study nuclear.

MR. BRYCE: Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

MR. FULFER: I'm understanding that this

$320 million upgrade started back in 2005 and it was

completed in 2009; is that right?

MR. THEMIG: The consent decree was signed in

2005. Construction commenced, I think, late 2006, or

maybe early 2007.

MR. FULFER: What brought this 320 investment

on? What started it?

MR. THEMIG: It was an agreement under the

consent decree to install the new technologies, which

were baghouse -- poststrip baghouse, combustion

modifications for NOx and an elimination or bypass of flu

gas around the scrubber so we're scrubbing 100 percent

of the flu gas.

MR. FULFER: Do you normally see a time

period, say three, five, seven years, that you get to

recapture your investment?

MR. THEMIG: Investment recapture would be --

actually, it's kind of outside my realm. It's actually

our accounting group who would look at all the variables

on depreciation schedules and earnings and on and on.

So it just kind of depends.
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If you install a capital pump, which is a

small item, that has a life of five years, you recover

your investment in five years. If you install a large

investment, say, like an SCR, you'd have many more years

you'd have to do the recovery over.

MR. FULFER: As far as going to like the

ratepayers and trying to recapture your costs, what time

period do you normally look at on that?

MR. THEMIG: We look into -- and Gerard Ortiz

will provide more comment on rate impact and the

timeline for that, but essentially as soon as the

project is completed, we do a filing in a rate case for

the initial recovery of that investment.

MR. FULFER: So really if you look back at the

timeline that you started on this BART, the -- your

investment that you've already put forward -- will it

count -- will some of these count toward -- or can you

use some of your investment in this new technology --

will it -- will it come forward -- I guess what I'm

trying to say, come forward in the -- in your new

program, if you -- if it was --

MR. THEMIG: Yeah. If I could clarify.

Are you referring specifically to NOx, or are

you talking --

MR. FULFER: The NOx.
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MR. THEMIG: -- about the other technologies

that --

MR. FULFER: The NOx.

MR. THEMIG: The NOx. The NOx actually

takes -- reduces the total emission by another factor,

and -- and it -- the answer to the question, it all

depends. If we're able to utilize the ammonia --

ammonia injection for the SNCR, and that technology is

being developed now, then we could utilize the capital

that's invested for the tanks and the regulators that

take the ammonia to the boiler.

If we're required to use some other chemicals,

like urea, for the SNCR technology, then it would be

less likely to utilize that equipment.

MR. FULFER: So you feel like there's been a

significant improvement in the SNCR technology?

MR. THEMIG: There has, and that is one of the

reasons SNCR is now able to meet this presumptive limit

that's 0.23 pounds per million BTU, is because of the

technology enhancements and the way that the suppliers

are able to actually get mixing of the urea and the flue

gas stream and get more reactivity for the NOx reduction.

MR. FULFER: That's all I have.

MR. CASCIANO: I have one question.

You mentioned the improvement with the low NOx
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burners and the 44 percent on the -- on the NOx emissions

since 2005, I guess, that improvement.

MR. THEMIG: Well, it wasn't -- the

construction activities actually concluded in early --

or in 2007, '8 and '9, during outages, so that the total

NOx reduction was phased in over those times, as we had

unit outages to do the work.

MR. CASCIANO: And I guess my question is have

there been other environmental improvements to the

facility prior to 2005, in the recent set of

improvements?

MR. THEMIG: There have. And I don't know the

whole history. I've been with PNM for three years.

But there was a sulfur -- sulfuric acid

manufacturing plant that was added to the back of the

plant. It's been a number of years. And then that was

subsequently converted to -- parts of it were converted

to what -- flue gas scrubbers. And there were

electrostatic precipitators initially installed on the

facility.

There may have been upgrades. But those are

the two that I really recall.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

And can you give me a sense of the trend line

for NOx?
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I mean, maybe where we are now and where we

were five years ago and ten years ago from the facility.

MR. THEMIG: Sure. I'd be happy to.

What -- and there may have been low NOx burners

installed at some point. When the plant was originally

designed, it probably had just traditional combustors,

and they may have installed low NOx burners. But our

permit limit prior to the environmental upgrade was

.5 pounds per million BTU, and then we now are permitted

.3 pounds per million BTU, and we operate just slightly

under that. So we have some latitude for variability in

operations.

And then with SNCR, that would drop to .23, so

we'd operate actually below .23 pounds per million BTU.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay. Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

Mr. Alvidrez, do you have follow-up?

MR. ALVIDREZ: I have no follow-up.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Is there any reason not to exclude Mr. Themig?

No?

Thank you very much, Mr. Themig.

MR. THEMIG: Thank you.

MR. ALVIDREZ: We can proceed, or if this is
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the time you want to take a break and --

MS. ORTH: What's the Board's pleasure?

MS. PEACOCK: Let's proceed.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Please go ahead.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you.

With that, we'd like to call Gerard Ortiz.

GERARD T. ORTIZ

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ALVIDREZ:

MR. ALVIDREZ: If we may proceed.

MS. ORTH: Yes, please.

Q. (BY MR. ALVIDREZ) Mr. Ortiz, you've been

sworn, as you are aware, but can you please state your

name for the record?

A. My name is Gerard T. Ortiz.

Q. And can you please tell the Board where you're

employed and in what capacity?

A. Yes. I am the executive director of New

Mexico Retail Regulatory Services for PNM Resources in

Albuquerque. In my current role, I'm responsible for

the group that puts together the fuel forecasts, the

group that manages and makes all of our NMPRC regulatory
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filings, cost of service and pricing, as well as the

group that develops and proposes to the commission our

energy efficiency programs.

Q. And, Mr. Ortiz, have you prepared prefiled

testimony in this case that we have marked as PNM

Exhibit B?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. And do you have any changes or corrections to

your prefiled testimony?

A. I do not.

Q. And do you now adopt that testimony under oath

in this proceeding?

A. Yes, sir.

MR. ALVIDREZ: With that, Madam Hearing

Officer, we would move the admission of PNM Exhibit B

into evidence.

MS. ORTH: Are there objections?

Hearing none, it's admitted.

Thank you.

(Exhibit PNM B admitted into evidence.)

Q. (BY MR. ALVIDREZ) Mr. Ortiz, can you briefly

summarize the salient topics of your prefiled testimony

for the Board?

A. Yes, sir. I would like to begin by providing

a beef -- brief summary of my background and experience.
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I received a bachelor of science in electrical

engineering from New Mexico State University in 1981. I

completed a master of business administration with a

concentration in finance from the Anderson School of

Management at University of New Mexico.

And I've been employed by PNM for 30 years in

various engineering, business planning, marketing and

regulatory capacities.

The purpose of my testimony in this proceeding

was to provide the bill impact or the ratepayer bill

impact associated with installing either SCR or SNCR

technology at San Juan Generating Station.

Based on analysis, cost analysis that was

prepared by Black & Veatch, taking into account the

capital costs, the O&M and the depreciable life of the

two technologies, the estimated first year bill impact

for SNCR is $10.93, or slightly less than $1 a month.

That represents a 1.4 percent increase to a customer's

bill.

SCR technology, on the other hand, represents

a first year bill impact of $85.31, or slightly more

than $7 per month. This represents 11. -- an

11.3 percent bill impact to PNM's New Mexico retail

customers.

The point that I would note with re --
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relative to either of these is the SCR increase of

11.3 percent provides no additional capacity with which

to serve PNM's retail loads.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, that concludes

our presentation of Mr. Ortiz' testimony, and we would

tender him for questioning.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Mr. Grantham, do you have questions?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Roybal?

MR. ROYBAL: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Rose?

MR. ROSE: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: A few questions,

please.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Ortiz.

Erik --

A. Good morning.

Q. Erik Schlenker-Goodrich with NRDC, San Juan

Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians.

Just a few questions on your ratepayer impact

analysis.
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You took a look at solely ratepayer impacts;

is that correct? Or was there a broader -- any sort of

broader economic analysis done of costs?

A. No, sir. I looked at the projected first year

bill impact.

Q. Did you do any sort of quantitative analysis

of the economic costs that would be borne by potentially

the difference between increased health impacts between

SCR and SNCR technologies?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you do any sort of quantitative analysis

of potential visibility or environmental impacts to the

Class I wilderness or national park areas?

A. No, sir. The purpose of my testimony was

simply to quantify the ratepayer impact.

Q. And one moment, please.

No further questions.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich.

Anyone else?

Do Board members have questions?

Questions from the Board?

If there's no reason, then, not to -- oh, I'm

sorry.

Mr. Alvidrez, do you have follow-up?

MR. ALVIDREZ: I do have no redirect. Thank
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you.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Thank you very much, Mr. Ortiz.

MR. ORTIZ: You're welcome.

MS. ORTH: You have two more, I believe.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes. I have two more to

present as a panel.

MS. ORTH: All right.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, I'd ask

Mr. Lucas and Ms. Fischer to join me up here.

MS. ORTH: They're already sworn.

MR. ALVIDREZ: If I may proceed.

MS. ORTH: Please.

DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, were

examined and testified as follows:

MR. ALVIDREZ: Let me start with you,

Ms. Fischer.

Can you please state your name and place of

employment for the record?

MS. FISCHER: Yes. My name is Diane Fischer.

I work at Black & Veatch.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And, Ms. Fischer, did you, in

conjunction with Mr. Lucas, prepare prefiled testimony

that has been submitted as PNM Exhibit C in this case?
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MS. FISCHER: Yes, sir.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And do you have any corrections

to PNM Exhibit C?

MS. FISCHER: Yeah. We do have a few minor

typographical corrections that we'd like to make.

The first one is on page 9, at the end of line

14. We accidentally left off NOx Star Technology as a

technology we consider infeasible. It's in our BART

analysis, but it just got left off of the testimony.

On page 17, line 7, the sentence reads right

now, "Additionally, air quality relative values." It

should say "related values" instead of "relative." Just

a typo there.

And then on page 24, line 19, the sentence

should read, "PNM Exhibit B&V-4 summarizes the cost of

SNCR at San Juan." So I'd like to just rephrase that

sentence.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And, Ms. Fischer, with those

corrections that you've just made, do you adopt your

prefiled testimony here under oath?

MS. FISCHER: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Turning to you, Mr. Lucas,

please state your name for the record.

And you might get closer to the mike.

MR. LUCAS: Certainly.
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My name is Kyle Lucas.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And where are you employed,

Mr. Lucas.

MR. LUCAS: I've been employed at Black &

Veatch for 17 years.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And, Mr. Lucas, again, did you,

in conjunction with Ms. Fischer, prepare prefiled

testimony in this case that we have marked as PNM

Exhibit C.

MR. LUCAS: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And you heard the corrections

that Ms. Fischer made with respect to that testimony.

And let me ask, with those corrections, do you

adopt that testimony as your sworn testimony in this

case?

MR. LUCAS: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: At this time, I'd like to move

the admission of PNM Exhibit C into the evidentiary

record.

MS. ORTH: Are there objections?

Hearing none, it's admitted.

(Exhibit PNM C admitted into evidence.)

MR. ALVIDREZ: With that, I'd call on

Ms. Fischer to provide a brief description of her

relevant experience and educational background.
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MS. FISCHER: I've been now with Black &

Veatch for 19 years. I have a reg- -- I'm a registered

mechanical engineer in the State of Missouri. I am a

graduate of Iowa State University with a bachelor of

science in mechanical engineering.

I've spent 19 years with Black & Veatch, and

the entirety of that time on air quality control

projects. My specialty area is NOx control. I've spent

the last 11 years or so almost solely on NOx control

projects.

I also have been involved in three BART

analyses and more than I could count when I was trying

to add it up BACT analyses which are similar. So --

MR. ALVIDREZ: And there are certain portions

of the testimony, I think, that you perhaps had the

greater hand in, and if you can kind of summarize for

the Board, hit the high points of the areas of your

prefiled testimony that you concentrated on, please.

MS. FISCHER: Sure.

I was the project manager for the project,

and -- and Mr. Lucas was the assistant project manager.

Roughly 20 people at Black & Veatch contributed some

part to the work that we did for this BART analysis

since we started the work in February of 2007.

So for the testimony today, I'm going to focus
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more on the engineering and the cost estimate and work

that we did, and Mr. Lucas is going to talk more about

the modeling side of the work that we did.

I do want to kind of go through this -- should

I go through the steps so -- that we went through?

We followed the EPA guidelines for BART

analysis, and in that -- in that guideline, they ask

that you consider five factors in evaluating BART.

The first is to -- the first is the cost of

compliance.

The second is energy and non -- nonair quality

environmental impacts.

The third factor is the existing control

technologies that are installed.

The fourth is the remaining useful life of the

plant.

And the last is the degree of visibility

improvement.

So those are the five factors that the EPA

BART guidelines require us to look at.

And in doing that, they've developed a

five-step process that we followed.

The first step is to identify the available

retrofit control technologies that can be applied.

The second step is to eliminate those
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technologies that are considered infeasible.

The third is to take the ones that are

feasible and evaluate the amount of control that can be

done with those technologies.

The fourth is to determine the impacts. And

that's where you get into the factors that we talked

about before.

And then the last is to assess the visibility

impacts of each technology.

So those are the steps that we went through.

I also want to highlight -- on page 2 of our

testimony is a summary of the -- kind of the history of

our submittals to the NMED. It lists out all the

submittals that we made. We've made quite a number of

them. They typically had to -- fell into one of three

areas.

One, the -- the modeling continued to evolve

as we were going through this project. The -- there

continued to be new -- and Mr. Lucas can talk more about

this -- new additions to the modeling methodology. And

so we had several submittals related to that.

We also had several submittals related to

specific questions from the NMED. So we responded to

those questions.

And then there were a couple that were more
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generally informational that we made.

But the one I want to highlight, of course,

and the main reason we're here today, is the

February 11, 2011, submittal of a revised SNCR BART

analysis. And that has been the focus of this hearing.

We submitted that BART analysis in response to

updates in the -- in the SNCR technology from our

original BART that would allow it to meet the

presumptive limit. And so then we resubmitted the BART

analysis.

And if you look on page -- finding it -- 17, I

believe -- I'll get there -- 17 of our testimony is the

summary of the costs that we put together for the

revised BART analysis from February, 2011.

The end result of that was a reduction of

about 4,900 tons per year of NOx at a cost of roughly

$3,500 a ton.

So that -- that concludes what I wanted to say

about our testimony.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Mr. Lucas, if you could please

briefly summarize for the Board the portions of the

prefiled testimony that you focused on.

MR. LUCAS: Certainly.

First of all, I'd like to give you a little

background on myself.
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I have worked at Black & Veatch, again, for 17

years, initially started as an air quality scientist,

conducting modeling studies and working through various

calculations on air permit applications. I then moved

on to becoming an environmental permitting manager at

Black & Veatch, where I oversaw various strategy

analyses and other licensing projects.

For this project, I oversaw the modeling

analyses from 2007 until February, and I've also

assisted as the assistant manager to help facilitate the

engineering studies ongoing throughout this process.

As Diane had noted earlier, I will be focusing

on the modeling aspects of the analysis that are

presented here, specifically over the course of the

four-year period.

We initially began with the project by

developing a modeling protocol document, using a route

template as our guidance. Through that, we established

our modeling methodologies, the model itself, the

meteorological data, determining data, operational

characteristics of the units, pre- and postcontrol

scenarios, and also specific receptors in the Class I

areas.

All of those parameters and methodologies were

submitted to NMED as part of our overall methodology to
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perform the analyses for the required guidelines.

With that, we ended up submitting, as

Ms. Fischer had noted, our February, 2011 analysis.

Before then, and following our June of 2007 -- I'm

sorry -- yeah, June, 2007 analysis, we submitted six

additional modeling analyses that either updated the

modeling for various regions, looked at various air

quality control analyses, updates, or responded directly

to NMED questions or concerns that they had.

The submittals that we have made are

summarized on page 2 of our testimony.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that you

may have at this time.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, we tender these

witnesses for questions.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Mr. Grantham?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Roybal?

MR. ROYBAL: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Rose?

MR. ROSE: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Anyone else?
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Board members, do you have questions of the

Black & Veatch panel, Ms. Fischer and Mr. Lucas, based

on their testimony?

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MS. RYAN: I have some questions regarding the

maximum visibility improvements to each unit and then

that in comparison to your -- and in relation to your

cost effectiveness analysis and so forth.

I think it would be beneficial for our Board

if you would walk us through that a little bit and

the -- looking at the -- on page 22 of your Exhibit C,

and moving on to the next couple of pages.

Could you summarize how you came to those

opinions and how -- how effective is this SNCR and --

you know, there's some general statements here that it's

going to improve, but -- but I would like you to address

specifically.

MR. LUCAS: Certainly. The way we conducted

our engineering analysis and our modeling analysis was

first to develop a baseline of a facility, and as

earlier testified by others, the facility baseline was

the consent decree controls that began in 2005 and

finished in 2009.

From that, we addressed various feasible and
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infeasible technologies, eliminated the infeasible ones

and developed design parameters for those that we took

into the modeling analyses.

We looked at each of the feasible controls.

In this case, we'll talk specifically about SNCR. Okay.

And looked at it as compared to the visibility

improvement gained against the baseline scenario. We

looked at that also for all the 16 Class I areas that

are within the 300-kilometer radius and also governed by

the guidelines.

What we ended up doing, simplistically, is

after we developed the baseline model with all the

parameters that I spoke of earlier, site-specific

characteristics, meteorological data, three-dimensional

meteorological data, various other trained

considerations and so forth, we then modeled the

baseline scenario for the plant for all four units, both

on a facility-wide basis and an individual unit basis,

so that we could contrast and compare.

And then we took the SNCR scenario at its

.23 million NOx emission rate, per that instant model,

repeated the analysis, and came up with another set of

results on the visibility basis, a deciview basis.

And for reference, a deciview is the metric

that the guidelines use. It is comparable to a percent
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change in visibility. So roughly a 1 deciview

improvement would be comparable to 10 percent change of

visibility. Okay.

From that point, we went ahead and took our

facility baseline and subtracted from the visibility

improvement scene or visibility result scene from the

SNCR scenario, and on a facility-wide basis, the

deciview number is a .25 improvement at one of the 16

Class I areas.

On a unit-by-unit basis, the same analysis was

done, and those impacts range from -- on the bottom of

page 22, range up to a .18 deciview change on an

individual unit basis.

I should note, though, that it is not

appropriate to add individual units up in this manner,

because you have to look at it as a facility total.

Individual units and their characteristics within the

model act independently and not act as a whole.

And so when we looked at individual unit

impacts, it was not Unit 1 operation, Unit 2 operation

and so forth. When you look at total facility

improvements, you want to look at the combined facility

operating and being modeled at the same time.

MS. RYAN: So in the comparison you made, 1

deciview equals basically a 10 percent change in --
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MR. LUCAS: Visibility.

MS. RYAN: -- my human eyesight visibility of

what I'm looking at.

So could you do the math for me and how -- you

were saying a .25 deciview change?

MR. LUCAS: It's about a 2.5 percent

visibility change.

MS. RYAN: We're not talking about a lot here.

How is that compared to the SRC, what they

propose with the -- the visibility change?

MR. LUCAS: The SCR case that Black & Veatch

submitted had a maximum of about 1.3 visibility

improvement, so about a 1 -- about 13 percent visibility

improvement.

The EPA has a threshold of 1 deciview --

MS. RYAN: Um-hum.

MR. LUCAS: -- which they believe is a human

perceptible change, so 10 percent visibility change.

MS. RYAN: So EPA is shooting for a 13 -- if

I'm just hearing you correctly, a -- because I'm not a

scientist here -- a 13 percent, and would the

noncatalytic reduction technology -- would be at --

would you repeat that percentage again?

MR. LUCAS: The deciview is .25, so it's a

2.5 percent change.
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MS. RYAN: 2.5. Okay.

MR. LUCAS: Overall the 2.5 percent -- 2.5 --

a change of the .25 deciview by itself is less than the

1 deciview.

Overall, though, on a cumulative basis, when

you look at other BART sources and other state and

federal implementations for the Clean Air Act around,

how -- and we spoke earlier about how all those were

modeled together or will be modeled together in the 2013

and 2018 time frames. Those will all contribute to

overall visibility improvements throughout the area.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

So that in comparison to the -- to the costs

of each of the different technologies, the cost to

achieve a 13 percent change and the cost to achieve a

2.5 percent change -- can you discuss -- walk us through

that?

MR. LUCAS: Certainly. I'll turn this over to

Ms. Fischer to walk through some of the more specific

details.

MS. FISCHER: Yeah. The -- the costs for SCR

for the four units would be, adding them up real quick,

roughly $900 million, for that 13 percent visibility.

The costs for the SNCR is, you know, in the 70 million

range.
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So there's a pretty significant difference

in -- in the costs between the two.

MS. RYAN: And not being a scientist,

there's -- I'd just request you to explain the really

large gap between 2.5 percent and 13 percent.

MS. FISCHER: There is one in between. It's

called an SCR/SNCR hybrid, which we did analyze. And

the easiest way to -- to talk about that is kind of like

a baby SCR. Instead of building an entire SCR reactor

to go all the way down to the .07 pounds per two NOx, you

try and fit as much catalyst into the existing duct or

maybe just expand the duct a little bit and then apply

SNCR with that.

So it's a combination of a -- kind of a baby

SCR with a -- with an SNCR system.

And the problem with the -- and it did -- it

did kind of hit an intermediate spot. You'd have to

tell us what the deciview permit for that was. I don't

recall it off the top of my head.

I don't know if you remember it.

MR. LUCAS: I don't either.

MS. FISCHER: Okay. But it was between.

And -- but the challenge is that as soon as

you add that catalyst and you have to implement all the

changes to the ductwork, you end up having to do all the
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draft system convergence to make sure that the boiler

can handle the new pressures in it.

When you do all that, the end result is that

the cost is, unfortunately, very close to a full SCR,

but the -- but you can't get as much removal. And so

the deciview is not as -- the deciview improvement

compared to the cost is not as great.

The guidelines require you to draw a curve --

and I don't have a -- I'm using my hands now -- a curve

that shows kind of the least cost effective line. And

when you plot that SCR/SNCR hybrid on that curve, it's

above the cost effectiveness line, whereas the SNCR and

the SCR are more on that line.

In other words, you're going to get a better

improvement for the money you spent with either of those

two technologies, compared to the hybrid. So yes, there

is an in-between, but it tends to not be looked at a lot

because it isn't as cost effective a solution.

MS. RYAN: Thank you.

MS. FISCHER: Um-hum.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

MR. CASCIANO: I have a few questions.

For the industry standard, I mean, can you

characterize kind of the results of your experience with

either BACT determination or BART determination for NOx
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control and --

MS. FISCHER: Sure, yeah.

BACT is typically applied on new unit SCRs,

and they're going to be a lot more cost effective on

a -- on a capital and annual cost, mostly because you

are building the plant with the SCR in mind right from

the beginning.

And so those -- the costs for a new SCR are

relatively low. You know, it's been a while since I've

done one, but, you know, in the hundred dollars a

kilowatt kind of number, compared to where we are in

this project, which is more like $300 a kilowatt.

When you do a retrofit, you have to go and

modify the existing plant. You're working inside a

plant that already has a lot of stuff in your way. The

ductwork in the arrangement is not set up for the SCR,

so you have a lot of rework to do. And -- so that's

what jacks up the price.

The costs at PNM are higher than the industry

average, and the main reason for that is because PNM is

a forced draft unit. What that means is that it pushes

the flue gas through the unit, instead of balancing the

boiler. So the boiler is positive pressure.

In a balanced draft unit, the boiler is zero

pressure. So you got a fan coming in to push the flue
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gas into the boiler, and you have a fan at the outlet

pulling the flue gas, and so the pressure at the boiler

is zero. That's called a balanced draft unit.

PNM is a forced draft unit. And so when you

go to do something like an upgrade for SCR, you have to

meet National Fire Protection code NFPA 85, which

requires you to go and reassess the draft impacts to the

Unit.

You can't just put a fan downstream of the

boiler without stiffening the boiler, so that it can

handle that pressure, because if you lose the FD fan,

the pushing fan, it will suck in -- suck in the boiler

like a tin can.

And so the National Fire Protection code has

written a standard that requires you to go and stiffen

that boiler. And so in this particular situation, we

have to do that. And so that's causing the costs

specifically at San Juan Station to be higher than what

we're seeing in the general industry for SCR retrofit.

MR. CASCIANO: So would I be correct in saying

that BART has been determined in the industry to be

anything from low NOx burners to selective catalytic

conversion, to selective noncatalytic conversion? Is --

you know, is there a standard -- it doesn't seem like

there's a one size fits all, because every facility is
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different, and it drives wide variations in the costs

for the retrofitting.

MS. FISCHER: Yes, sir. The standard is

actually specifically stated that you have to do a

case-by-case analysis. One of the challenges that we're

seeing is a lot of these BARTs -- even though it's been

a bunch of years, very few BART determinations are

final. In fact, I think the only one I know of is the

port -- is Portland Generating.

MR. LUCAS: Boardman station in Oregon.

MS. FISCHER: Boardman station is the only

BART that I'm aware of that is final and approved by EPA

and official.

All the other BARTs that I'm aware of are

still out there in some stage of public comment or

evaluation. So --

MR. CASCIANO: Are you aware of any other

BARTs for -- that have been rejected for selective

catalytic reduction technology?

MS. FISCHER: The --

MR. CASCIANO: Any other facilities where

they've determined that -- similar to PNM's position,

that it's not cost effective for that technology as a

BART, and they've gone to their selective noncatalytic

or gone to just low NOx burners as the best available
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retrofit?

MS. FISCHER: The draft in Colorado for Craig

Station and -- is -- there are three units at Craig, and

they have been asked to put two -- one SCR on Unit 2 at

Craig and SNCR, which is the technology we're talking

about for here, on -- is it 1 and 3, I believe. So

that's -- that's -- but that's a draft.

That hasn't been finally approved by the EPA;

is that right?

MR. LUCAS: There are several other facilities

in Wyoming.

MS. FISCHER: Oh, yes.

MR. LUCAS: An initial determination by the

facility through the BART was that SCRs or SNCRs were

not feasible or not cost effective, but the state later

came back and determined that the SNCRs to be that

chosen technology.

A lot of those are being contested right now.

But I don't know what the current status is.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

MS. FISCHER: The four -- the other thing is

the Four Corners, which is governed by EPA Region 9 --

the EPA determination -- original determination was SCRs

on all five units there. I think the current proposal

out there is to shut down 1, 2 and 3 and just continue
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to run 4 and 5 with the SCRs.

But their NOx -- they're starting NOx compared

to PNM was significantly higher. They were at like .5

whereas, PNM is starting at like .3, so --

MR. LUCAS: What Diane is alluding to is the

dollar per ton that you're also kind of getting to as

the threshold, Four Corners had a higher initial NOx --

uncontrolled NOx rate of the middle 4s, I believe, .4,

whereas San Juan --

MS. FISCHER: 4.5.

MR. LUCAS: -- is down to .3.

And the cost to install SCR at San Juan again

is different than the cost to install at the San Juan

Station simply because of some of the more complex

features of -- site-specific features that San Juan has,

including the balanced draft version that Ms. Fischer

spoke of.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

MS. FISCHER: I apologize for not remembering

the exact thing in Craig. I know at least one has an

SCR and one has SNCR. I just can't remember if it's two

at Craig that have SCR or one. But that could be

verified.

But anyway, the only one that's final that I'm

aware of is Boardman. All the others are in some state
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of review or contesting.

MR. LUCAS: I have worked on five large BART

projects at eight different plants for 23 different coal

units, and I don't have a final determination yet from

the EPA on any of those. The states have submitted

their determination, and with their determination

submitted their various SIPs to the EPA in various

regions off the country, but we have yet to hear on any

of those what the final determination's been.

MS. RYAN: We have no precedent for this Board

to work off of on what the likelihood that EPA would

approve our SIP if this was implemented?

MS. FISCHER: Not much.

MR. LUCAS: I can't speak to that.

It has not been very successful in the other

projects I've worked on. Whether -- and I don't know

what the drivers are on those, whether or not the EPA

has yet to begin reviewing or whether or not the EPA is

opening it back up to starting a new review process.

But it has yet to be resolved and finalized in a SIP.

MR. CASCIANO: So back to your visibility

modeling, does the model take into effect other sources?

Is that --

MR. LUCAS: Not this modeling, no. The

modeling done for San Juan was specific to San Juan, San
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Juan's baseline and San Juan's future AQC technologies

that were being analyzed. It does not look at any other

sources in the area.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay. So you don't have any

information on what percentage of the total air shed or,

you know, sources in the area this source represents.

MR. LUCAS: No. It was not required as part

of the BART -- BART submittal.

MR. FULFER: What are the state -- what are

the surrounding states' presumptive levels? Are they

the same as what we're looking at here, or --

MS. FISCHER: The presumptive levels are a

function of the boiler type and the fuel. They're not

by state. They're by the fuel you burn and the type of

boiler you have. So they have the same list of

presumptive levels that San Juan has, it's just a matter

of looking at their boiler and fuel type to figure out

what line to go on on the table. That table is in the

EPA guidelines.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

Mr. Alvidrez, do you have follow-up?

MR. ALVIDREZ: I do, just a -- one question.

Mr. Lucas, Board Member Casciano asked you a

question about the modeling you did for San Juan

Generating Station, whether it took into account other
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sources, and I wanted to clarify on the record is there

other modeling, such as the WRAP modeling that was done,

that looks at a comprehensive -- comprehensive number of

sources and their impacts?

MR. LUCAS: Yes. There is other modeling that

has been done and will be done. NMED indicated earlier

that the 2013 and 2018 will be revisited, and at that

point, I believe, they will be including -- or a

contractor will be including all the various BART source

changes that will happen, along with any other state or

federal implementation proceedings or proposals going

in.

And from that, you will end up with a new

determination at each of the Class I areas as to whether

or not visibility is truly improving beyond what NMED

stated earlier.

MR. CASCIANO: And does EPA specify what

improvement needs to happen, or is it just that it needs

to be improving?

MR. LUCAS: There is -- they have established

a glide path for each of the Class I areas, and that

glide path is basically denoted to achieve a natural

visibility condition by 2064. So simplistically, you

would take the -- take where you're at today, and on an

access view quite high to where you're going to be in
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the future, and that line would draw a glide path.

So every few years various circulators would

go back and reevaluate where everybody's at, and you

will either be above the line or below the line at that

point with these implemented changes.

And technically, if you're above the line,

you're going to be looking at additional changes

throughout BART sources or possibly throughout other

non-BART sources and other air emission sources within

an area, in other words, to try to further the progress

towards that natural visibility condition.

MR. CASCIANO: So is that comprehended in the

analysis you did for this BART?

MR. LUCAS: No. We -- the analysis we did was

a single point. It was looking at what visibility

improvements you could achieve at the 16 Class I areas

by looking at those control technologies that are

feasible for San Juan. The analysis provided here in

the Exhibit C focuses on the SNCR technology and those

improvements that can be seen and achieved.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

MS. FISCHER: If it's okay, the one thing I'd

like to clarify on that is we did a BART analysis for

San Juan, and then the NMED takes that BART analysis and

that modeling that we did and plugs it into their
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broader model of the whole state. So that, you know,

we're feeding a piece to the bigger work that NMED does.

MS. ORTH: Is there anything else,

Mr. Alvidrez?

MR. ALVIDREZ: No.

Thank you very much.

MS. ORTH: Anything else?

MS. RYAN: I would like to make one comment,

and it's not necessarily specific to these two

witnesses, but just in general to all of the parties

involved.

I'm very interested, and I'm sure other Board

members are, too, in the -- the cost effectiveness of

each of these different types of technologies, and our

frustration in wanting to make a difference in our

environment and improve the regional haze, and, also,

torn with the huge economic impact to our state and our

citizens.

So I know the parties have briefed and

analyzed and -- if you could just keep that in the back

of your mind, that that is what -- that is what I

personally am wrestling with, is wanting to make a

visible change and do something meaningful and worth

everyone's time, and at the same time not wanting to

burden our state with additional economic burdens in a
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state that it currently is, which is under a lot of

burden.

So I guess I just want the parties to keep

that in mind as you continue to present testimony to our

Board over the next couple of days and that you would

try to address that in some more detail for us.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Anything else?

Any reason not to excuse the witnesses?

No?

Thank you very much, Ms. Fischer and

Mr. Lucas.

Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: That concludes our -- our

direct case.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

Let's talk about where we are in 11-01.

I see Mr. Rose's hand.

MR. ROSE: If you can see me over

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich. He's such a big guy, sort of.

MS. ORTH: Yes.

Just one second --

MR. ROSE: Sure.

MS. ORTH: -- Mr. Rose.

Board, the other witnesses for whom notice of
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intent to present technical testimony was submitted,

such that they will be in front of you, is -- as you've

seen this morning, is from San Juan Coal Company,

represented by Mr. Roybal back there.

He does have one of his witnesses with him,

that's Mr. Cline. The other two witnesses are in

Farmington area. He would like to present all three of

his witnesses at the same time. And so he'd like to put

on his whole presentation tomorrow when we're in

Farmington.

That leaves Mr. Rose and

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich who are offering more something

in the nature of public comment.

But let's hear them out.

MR. ROSE: Madam Hearing Officer, we have no

testimony. We submitted our written public comment

yesterday.

But what I was going to do was note that you

have a couple legislators here who want to speak and

have an interim committee meeting starting at 1:00. And

so they wanted to be able to speak before they go back

into session, in the next 25 minutes.

So I wanted to alert you to that fact.

MS. ORTH: Thank you for that.

MR. ROSE: So you can make accommodation for
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them.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you for that.

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich, would you describe

what your intention is?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Yeah. We'd like to

simply summarize our written public comments that we

submitted on Friday, May 27th. We think we could do

that in less than five minutes. And I decided not to do

public comment, but I apparently signed up on the wrong

form. So I can do that in the afternoon, which is fine

with me.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

Mr. Roybal.

MR. ROYBAL: Madam Hearing Officer, we just

have two witnesses, not three.

MS. ORTH: Oh, I'm sorry. Great.

So legislators -- I'm sorry. It's hard to see

out there.

Who would like to speak now, to make public

comment?

Testimony is taken under oath and is subject

to questions.

If you will please introduce yourself.

MR. NEVILLE: My name is --
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THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right

hand, please.

STEVE NEVILLE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: And would you please state and

spell your name, please.

MR. NEVILLE: My name is Steve Neville,

N-E-V-I-L-L-E. I'm state senator for District 2, which

surrounds the San Juan Generating Station in

Northwestern New Mexico.

I live in -- I'm a resident of Farmington, New

Mexico, and we're down here for a Water and Natural

Resources Committee meeting. And I appreciate your

taking the time to let me enter a few comments.

As you can imagine, the concerns of what

happens with the environmental issues in San Juan County

are very important to us. We have a large facility. I

think most of you are aware that San Juan Generating

Station is located up there.

San Juan Generating Station plus the coal

miners that fuel that facility constitute nearly 1,000

jobs in our community. That is a tremendous economic

driver for our local area. They also pay the state
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millions of dollars in taxes every year, as well as

contributing greatly to the local economy in terms of

material supplies, those kind of things.

That's all the selfish reasons why I'm here.

But let's look at it from the State of New

Mexico. And as a legislator, I certainly have to

consider those issues, as well.

The State of New Mexico derives fully one-half

of the generating capacity -- one-half the electricity

from San Juan Generating Station. The rest of it they

have to get from out of state or the nuclear plant at

Palo Verde and so forth. That's a tremendous economic

situation for the State of New Mexico.

Everyone knows that coal is the cheapest

method in which to generate electricity. And San Juan

Generating Station has made a gallant effort over the

past few years to be very friendly to the environment

and certainly to those of us who live here -- live

there. We believe that San Juan Generating Station has

done a tremendous job in protecting the environment, as

well as helping the citizens of New Mexico prosper

around the state.

I would urge that you adopt this plan that

you're considering. The one that's proposed by EPA will

greatly enhance -- increase the cost of electricity to
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all the citizens of New Mexico. And while you look at

it as a dollar per person amount, that amount when you

take it over the whole state has a tremendous economic

benefit.

With those comments, I'll stand for any

questions or conclude my remarks, and I appreciate the

opportunity to let me talk. Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Senator.

Questions?

No.

Thank you very much.

PAUL BANDY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. BANDY: I'm Paul Bandy, P-A-U-L B-A-N-D-Y.

I'm a state representative, District 3, which is Eastern

San Juan County.

I want to echo what Senator Neville said. I

think they've done a lot of -- made a lot of investments

to improve the emission -- to lower the emission rates

for the San Juan Generating Station, and I think that --

the plan the state proposes that's before you I think is
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a -- I think that the PNM thinks that they can live

within that and still keep the utility rates at a

reasonable rate -- level in New Mexico.

It's important for all the state to have a

reasonable utility -- electrical rate, because

everything that we do, everything we buy and all the

jobs that we produce is dependent in one way or another

on electrical supply, and that -- and supplying that at

a reasonable rate.

My personal concern is from our neighbors,

whose -- many of them work at the power plant or their

jobs are associated with that. We've already -- we have

two power plants in San Juan County. The San Juan

Generating is on the north side of the San Juan River.

The Four Corners Power Plant is on the south side and on

the Navajo Reservation.

And they've already decided that because of

the environmental regulations they're going to shut down

three of the five plants -- three units that produce

electricity there. So that's going to be a tremendous

hit for jobs in our area. And we certainly don't need

to threaten any more of the jobs.

The other is about the tax base in San Juan

County. 93 percent of San Juan County is government

land of one kind or another, either controlled by the
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BLM or the State of New Mexico or the Navajo

Reservation. And so there's not much of a tax base

there if it's not for the industrial segment. And the

San Juan Generating Station has a tremendous effect on

the county tax base.

That's would conclude my testimony. We'd urge

you to adopt the plan that's before you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Representative.

Questions?

No?

Thank you very much.

MR. BANDY: Thank you.

RAY BEGAY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. BEGAY: Thank you.

My name is Ray Begay. I'm in the state House

of Representatives, serving my 13 years. And I'm here

to testify on behalf of my constituency and also on

behalf of District 4 in San Juan County.

I am a permanent resident of San Juan County

and has been for many, many, many years. I live in
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Shiprock. Also lived in Red Valley, Arizona, on the New

Mexico side, near the border of Red Valley and Mitten

Rock area. And my families comprise of a ranch -- being

a rancher, farmer, and just -- just common people and

professional people, as well.

And having said that, I was looking at the

several indicators on this hearing being conducted today

and some of the recommendations that are being made.

And there's always a negative and always a positive in

such a hearing as this, and being able to look at all

the pictures and all the numbers and seeing what would

be the best practice here in the State of New Mexico as

it is.

And the Public Service Company of New

Mexico -- obviously, the Navajo Nation or -- is a

stakeholder in this whole process. And many Native

American, predominantly Navajo, live off the reservation

in Farmington, Aztec, Bloomfield, La Plata and Kirtland,

Waterflow and those areas, and some of them had

established permanent residence because of the jobs

nearby.

Four Corners is very unique, and its coal,

oil and gas, helium and other natural mineral product.

And I think for many, many years, the State of New

Mexico had benefitted from the revenues that are
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generated through time. And we have been very healthy

here in the State of New Mexico, were able to gain many

employment for people that otherwise would not have that

opportunity to.

Also, the Navajo Nation government itself had

also benefitted. And many of my relatives and friends

and people that I communicate with at a professional

level that are Navajos have really sustained themselves

through this economic endeavors. And some had retired,

working for the -- for PNM and BHP Billiton and other

public service company, and live in a very comfortable

lifestyle now and really appreciate the corporations

coming and doing what they had to do.

And I live also in Shiprock, I live along the

San Juan River, and I have a farm there. And so I see

the pollutions that goes on 24/7, and it's been there

for many, many years. And so there seem to be some

question now who would be the caretaker of the

environmental impact, would it be the federal

government, would it be the State of New Mexico.

And I have some information on the San Juan

Generating Station that employs 394 full-time workers,

and 20 percent of those are of Native American descent,

predominantly Navajos. The San Juan Mine also employ

526 people, of whom 46 percent are Native Americans.
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And the plants itself pays millions of dollars

a year in government taxes, which I alluded to earlier.

And to kind of give you an accurate figure is

$54.8 million in coal royalties and taxes paid to

governments and tribes, 6.4 million paid in property tax

to San Juan County.

And also, that San Juan also purchased about

30 million in materials and supplies every year and hold

approximately 122 million contracts for outside

services. The plant pays 280 million each year for coal

and ash removal.

So the productivity, the economy that's

generated in the Four Corners area is very beneficial to

the Navajo Nation, to tribes and to the City of

Farmington and to San Juan County in general.

I would urge this body to make that

determinations that the environment -- the Environmental

Improvement Board should adopt and draft a State

Implementation Plan as proposed by the New Mexico

Environmental Department. So I'm here to urge you as a

body to make that determination. I think it's -- I

think it's worthwhile that we keep all the

decision-making here in the State of New Mexico.

I appreciate your time and attention to my

request. Thank you.
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MS. ORTH: Thank you, Representative Begay.

Are there other legislators?

NATE GENTRY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. GENTRY: My name is Nate Gentry,

representative, House District 30, N-A-T-E G-E-N-T-R-Y.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. GENTRY: Thank you, Madam Chair, members

of the Board.

My name is Nate Gentry. I represent House

District 30, located in Albuquerque.

I'm here today to urge the Board to draft the

State Implementation Plan as proposed by the NMED.

As I'm sure the Board is aware, the federal

plan costs significantly more than does the state plan.

Not only is there concern certainly from my perspective,

the relative household impact that the proposed federal

plan would have, but there's also significant economic

concerns.

The federal -- proposed federal plan costs

roughly 10 times more than would the state plan, and
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this would burden particularly the portion of the state

that has been particularly -- particularly hard hit by

the recent economic downturn, specifically San Juan

County.

What is also of concern -- or from my

perspective, the state plan has -- strikes a much better

balance between both the environmental consequences as

well as the economic considerations.

So I would again urge that the Board to accept

the state's -- NMED's plan, State Implementation Plan.

With that, I'd stand for any questions.

MS. ORTH: Thank you very much.

Other legislators?

Other legislators?

No?

Board, are we ready for a lunch break now?

MS. PEACOCK: Yes.

MS. ORTH: Yes.

MS. PEACOCK: How much public comment is left,

or how -- how much time is left?

MS. ORTH: I can -- how many are here to make

public comment in EIB 11-01, that's the regional haze

State Implementation Plan revisions?

One, two, three, four -- all right.

Is there anyone here specifically to offer
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public comment in EIB 11-02, which is a related but not

identical matter?

Anyone at all?

Okay.

MS. PEACOCK: We should continue, then, and --

MS. ORTH: All right.

MS. PEACOCK: And then it's my understanding

we would go to Farmington.

MS. ORTH: That's correct. Then we're done --

MS. PEACOCK: We're done here and -- yeah.

Let's finish up here.

THE REPORTER: Can we take like five minutes,

though, please?

MS. PEACOCK: Cheryl, thank you. Absolutely.

MS. ORTH: Yes. Thank you.

Let's take five minutes.

(Proceedings in recess from 12:49 p.m. to

1:05 p.m.)

MS. ORTH: We are back after a break.

We have finished the technical testimony that

will be heard in Santa Fe. We have a little more

technical testimony to hear tomorrow in Farmington from

San Juan Coal Company, but that will be up at the

college in Farmington starting at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow.

So what we're going to do for the rest of our
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time together today is accept the last of the public

comment.

What I have is Norma McCallan, Paul Gessing,

Beverlee McClure, Elizabeth Slota and Erik

Schlenker-Goodrich.

Is there anyone else who is going to want to

make public comment?

I see no hands.

Let's begin with Ms. McCallan.

MS. MC CALLAN: Do I come up there?

MS. ORTH: Yeah. Come up here, please.

All comment is taken under oath and is subject

to questions from the Board.

And I'll ask you to keep your comments under

five minutes, if you can.

NORMA MC CALLAN

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. MC CALLAN: Norma McCallan,

M-C-capital-C-A-L-L-A-N.

I am a long-term resident of New Mexico. I

deeply love it, and I feel very privileged to live in
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this state, having grown up in another state, back east.

I cherish its land, its water, its people, its

magnificent blue skies.

I support not your plan, but the EPA's

proposed BART plan to reduce the NOx emissions which will

reduce them by 80 percent on the San Juan Generating

Statement -- Generating Station. It is a very positive

step, I think, in a very long history of pollution

emanating from the Four Corners area.

You can see that brown -- you can even see the

brown haze sometimes in Santa Fe. You can certainly --

it just gets deeper and deeper and thicker and thicker

as you head toward Farmington, as I did several weeks

ago.

And I think that your plan is woefully

inadequate to do the job.

I went to the Environment Department's public

hearing in May here in Santa Fe, and PNM was there, and

they really emphasized the -- what they considered the

extreme costs to their customers as being the reason

that they were a -- preaching this separate smaller

plan. And they pointed out that they have a lot of

low-income customers in their area, which I certainly

wouldn't deny at all.

New Mexico is a very low-income state. And so
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it's almost at the bottom in the per capita income in

the country. And I just saw recently a figure that it's

one of four states where 20 percent of the people have

to live on food -- exist on food stamps. So that's not

an issue.

But I think they have a -- grossly exaggerated

this 20 -- this $80 a year increase that it would --

that people would see on their bills. I'm not an

engineer, and I'm not a mathematician, but people who

are have pointed out that they think the figures are

really exaggerated and it would be more like a much more

reasonable $10 an actual year.

And we have to remember that the poor in New

Mexico are -- also suffer disproportionately from the

environmental effects of air and water pollution, and we

know that there's a huge amount of asthma and

lung-related diseases in the Four Corners area, far

greater than anywhere in the rest of the state.

In fact, local residents often consider

themselves to be a sacrifice zone, creating energy for

the rest of the country through the oil and gas and the

two large power plants.

Haze is smog, and smog is full of pollution.

So it's not just a visibility issue. It's clearly a

major health issue. And it seems to me that PNM is
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thinking much more about its corporate profits than it

is about the well-being of its customers.

But if you do want to look at the visibility,

which is important in its own right, tourism is the

second -- after the oil and gas industry, tourism is the

second highest economic driver in New Mexico. And

tourists don't like to see smoggy skies.

There are 16 what they call -- the EPA calls

Class I national parks, national monuments and

wilderness areas within a 100-mile radius of the Four

Corners plant, Bandelier, which is a hop, skip and a

jump from Santa Fe, being one of them. And if we want

to stay the land of enchantment, we had -- and keep our

clear -- clean, sparkling blue skies, that we have in --

still in a good part of the state, then we are to be

very seriously supporting EPA's BART plan.

The national parks bring in something like

18,000 jobs a year and thousands and thousands of

tourists. So visibility is important in that respect.

And I just want to urge you -- I appreciate

the Environment Department in New Mexico. They've done

a lot of good things over time. Last year they did

endorse the EPA plan, and now with new members, a new

administration, they're coming up with their own.

But I would strongly urge you to support the
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EPA's plan, which I think is very heavy thought out, it

uses technology which is readily available everywhere,

and it will be to long-term good of the state, not just

the short-term good of corporate profits.

So thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. McCallan.

Paul Gessing.

PAUL GESSING

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. GESSING: Paul, G-E-S-S-I-N-G, Gessing.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. GESSING: I come here today representing

New Mexico's only free market oriented think tank. We

have an interest in this particular issue because we

support energy policies that maximize personal

responsibility and individual choice. We're here in

support of the draft State Implementation Plan as

proposed by the New Mexico Environmental Department.

While we do have quibbles and have concerns

about the general process involving the Environmental

Improvement Board, and that is a consistent thing from
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the previous administration into the current

administration, our view is that state dictates are

better than federal dictates from Washington, DC. And

so we would rather have decision-making done here

locally rather than coming top-down from Washington.

New Mexico businesses have been hit hard by

economic downturn. Energy costs are something that they

have very little control over, and yet, as we've seen in

recent years, energy costs, electricity costs in

particular, have risen dramatically.

We have also studied the impact of New

Mexico's renewable portfolio standard, a state-passed

standard that we estimate will increase energy costs --

electricity costs to consumers by $2.3 billion over the

next 10 years.

So New Mexico is not sitting on its hands. We

have many different policies in place that are designed

to address very real environmental concerns. This

particular state initiative would have significant

salutary impacts on air quality and the quality of life

of people living in and around the area affected by the

Four Corners plant.

And so we do support this initiative and

strongly urge the Environmental Improvement Board to

adopt it.
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Thank you very much.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Gessing.

Beverlee McClure.

BEVERLEE MC CLURE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. MC CLURE: Beverlee McClure,

B-E-V-E-R-L-E-E, McClure, M-C-capital-C-L-U-R-E.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. MC CLURE: Thank you.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, as I

said, I'm Beverlee McClure. I'm the president of the

Association of Commerce and Industry, and we serve as a

statewide Chamber of Commerce.

In this capacity, we're the only association

that represents all business, large and small and all

geographic sectors in our state. And so I sit here

today in front of you on behalf of the employers. I

will tell you that PNM is a member of the Association of

Commerce and Industry, as are many other employers that

would be negatively impacted if we were to adopt the

federal plan.
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And I know the issue before you is hard, and

you've heard lots of testimony. I think the thing to

note is that PNM is not resisting addressing the

problem, but more importantly, but how to address the

problem, and how to do it in a way that helps the

environment at the same time without continuing to hurt

the economy and the employers in our state.

You probably know that the State of New Mexico

is at an all time high with unemployment. Even though

we saw a dip in that the last month, the explanation for

that is an unfortunate one. Not because people went

back to work, but because their benefits have expired

and their jobs are not there. So we stand in a time

when we have to look at the economic impact along with

the environmental impact, and that's what I sit here and

ask you to do today.

You know, because the state did not have an

implementation plan that was adopted, through no fault

of their own, PNM found that they were at the mercy of

the federal EPA. The EPA came in and has recommended a

technology that is pretty expensive, very expensive,

$750 million to $1 billion.

So what PNM basically is asked and what the

employers of the state is asked is is there a way to do

this, where we don't have to increase the costs, because
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the business is going to bear the brunt of that, because

of the usage that we have with our employers in the

state.

And so with that, the State Implementation

Plan took another look at this and said there is a way,

and there is a technology where we can address the issue

in the San Juan -- with the haze issue, but at the same

time be at a lower cost to PNM, which, in turn, will be

a lower cost for the employers in our state.

And so that's what we're asking for today, is

to look at that State Implementation Plan. The EPA

recommendation doesn't seem to be based on a study of

the costs, the impact, even though by their own rules,

part of the recommendations for any retrofit technology

has to be based on costs and on economic impact, and it

does not appear that happened.

So the State Implementation Plan is a chance

for us to take another look at this, to look at how to

work together to balance the environment with the

economy. So on behalf of the employers and the state, I

ask you to consider that and consider the ripple effect

of that, because this is a time in our state when it's

very important.

Thanks so much.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. McClure.
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Elizabeth Slota?

MS. SLOTA: My name --

THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right

hand, first.

ELIZABETH SLOTA

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: And now, please, your name.

MS. SLOTA: Elizabeth Slota, S-L-O-T-A.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. SLOTA: I'm addressing you today as a

member of the PNM Forerunners, a retirement group of

former employees. I am a member of that association by

association with my deceased husband. I am considered a

surviving spouse. But I also want to address you as a

citizen of New Mexico, about one month short of 43

years.

I also came to New Mexico not knowing what it

was, where it was even. My husband, Michael, was in the

service at the time, stationed at Kirtland. And fell in

love with New Mexico within 24 hours, and have stayed

since. And I've been asked by the Forerunners to do

this, but as I said, I also want to address you as a

citizen.
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The EPA is a federal government entity, and

the federal government tends to think in one size fits

all. So their plan is probably the same plan that

happens in Michigan, New Jersey, where I come from, and

anyplace else.

I think that the state now has the opportunity

to develop a plan that will be the best for New Mexico,

not only in emissions controls and effectiveness on

health issues, visibility impact, but the economic

impact of this plan.

The state proposal cost to the residential

customer is estimated at $11.50 per year. The EPA

program would be $82 a year. And we all know that

estimates tend to go up rather than down.

But more importantly, not only will the

resident -- residential customer be played -- be paying

more per year, but it will also affect the cost of

businesses, the supermarket, doctors' offices, public

buildings, and state parks for tourists.

And the way that the businesses will recoup

their increased energy cost will be by higher prices in

the supermarket, the doctors' office. The way the

government, state buildings, state parks, et cetera,

will recoup their increased cost is through increased

taxes. I don't want either one of those. I'm sure no
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one wants either one of those.

So I would like you to consider the proposed

state plan.

And also, the emissions controls are being met

at the standards or even at a higher level. And, you

know, it's kind of like a no-brainer. If you can do the

job at a lower cost, why do it at a higher one?

Thank you for your time and your

consideration.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Slota.

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich.

ERIK SCHLENKER-GOODRICH

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: As an initial matter,

I want to note for the record that I'm -- yesterday we

submitted an additional letter to the Board that

complements our Friday, May 27th letter, and I have

copies of that which I'll provide to the Board.

Basically there was an error in our citation, so we

corrected that with yesterday's filing.

But today in terms of public comment, I want

to make four basic points that summarizes our

perspective at the Western Environmental Law Center, as
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well as the perspective of several environmental groups.

And I'll just list them very quickly. That would be

Dine Care, the Navajo, the Natural Resources Defense

Council, New Energy Economy, New Mexico Sportsmen, the

Rio Grande Chapter of the Sierra Club, the Sierra Club,

San Juans Citizens Alliance and WildEarth Guardians.

And the first point I want to make is that

with visibility protections under the Clean Air Act

we're really talking about, in my view, two things.

Number one, protection of the iconic

landscapes, both in New Mexico and the broader Four

Corners region, my home area up in Northern New Mexico

and Taos. That means places like Wheeler Peak

Wilderness or the Cruces Basin Wilderness or the Latir

Peak Wilderness. And these iconic landscapes are very

essential to both our culture and also our economy.

The second component of visibility protection

is really the public health benefits. Now, these are

indirect, because the purpose of visibility protections

is really protection of visibility. But there are very

significant indirect public health benefits from

increased, intensified regional haze protections.

And these can be quantified. And when you're

talking about visibility protections, what we're really

talking about is trying to internalize the costs of
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pollution, and here specifically of nitrogen oxides.

Someone at some point is going to bear the costs,

whether that's a ratepayer in terms of increased

electricity costs or a child getting asthma. At some

point, someone has to pay.

Sometimes those costs aren't internalized.

Sometimes they're not even recognized. And so that's

what we're talking about here, is trying to internalize

the costs of haze causing pollution emitted from the San

Juan Generating Station.

And we can quantify those impacts. We can

also do qualitative analysis of those impacts.

From a quantitative perspective, EPA has

estimated that the benefits of regional haze protections

would amount to around $8.4 to $9.8 billion a year,

that's annual benefits, while the costs of regional haze

protections are far less, at around 1.4 to $1.5 billion.

Those are the capital costs of implementing, investing

in these pollution control technologies.

And, now, we also can't put aside the ethics

and morals. That -- those benefits also reflect the

fact that we're preventing 1,600 premature deaths each

year, and also preventing 1 million lost work and school

days. Those are things that have concrete economic

benefits, but also very personal, moral, ethical impacts
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to families here in New Mexico and the broader region.

Now, the real debate here in terms of

technological issues is between the Department's

proposal for SNCR technology, selective noncatalytic

reduction technology, versus selective catalytic

reduction technology, as proposed by the EPA in its

proposed Federal Implementation Plan.

Now, we believe very strongly that the SCR

technology is mandated and acquired under the Clean Air

Act and that ultimately EPA is going to make a

determination of whatever this Board decides whether the

State Implementation Plan is sufficient, or if this

Board decides not to approve the State Implementation

Plan, EPA will then put forth its own Federal

Implementation Plan.

Now, in terms of the concrete benefits of SCR

technology versus SNCR, EPA's determined that SCR is

more protective. It prevents about 77 to 90 percent of

nitrogen oxide emissions from San Juan Generating

Station, while SNCR only reduces around 23 to 25 percent

of the nitrogen oxides. This is pretty significant.

It's a difference of 17,500 tons of nitrogen oxides per

year under SCR versus 4,900 pounds of NOx per year under

SNCR.

From a cost perspective, SCR technology is
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also far more cost effective ton for ton. When you use

SCR technology, you're talking about less than $2,000

per ton of reduced nitrogen oxides. SNCR is far less

efficient and actually costs around $3,700 per ton of

reducing nitrogen oxide of pollution.

So from our perspective, the SCR technology is

far more protective and also far more cost effective

than SNCR technology. So it reflects good science, it

reflects good policy, and fundamentally it represents

the public interest.

Now, going into my final point here, the

Environment Department's proposal isn't good science,

and it isn't good policy, and it isn't in the public

interest, and there are three primary -- or four primary

problems with the SNCR proposal.

The first of those problems is that it fixates

on ratepayer impacts. Now, ratepayer impacts are

certainly important and a worthy consideration for

determining what kind of pollution control reduction

technology you want to consider. But you can't put

aside all of those indirect benefits to public health

that can be quantified and at least qualitatively

analyzed.

But under cross-examination, the Department

has admitted, as well as PNM has admitted that they
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didn't actually consider the cost of public health or,

frankly, the environment. Instead they made a decision

that was fixated again exclusively on ratepayer impacts.

And to emphasize, I'm not dismissing those

impacts. I'm simply saying those are one factor and

there are other factors in terms of costs and benefits

of one technology versus another technology.

So fundamentally we think that the SNCR

proposal as put forth by the Department and supported by

PNM Resources and others elevates the concerns of

ratepayer impacts over visibility protections, cost

effectiveness and public health. And we think one of

the reasons that they've done this is that there's far

too cozy a relationship between PNM Resources and the

Environment Department.

In our comments that we submitted on May 27th,

we noted that EPA and PNM Resources had met the pressure

of EPA to adopt a more reduced SNCR proposal or to at

least consider the state's proposal.

And in fact, they're apparently having

conversations with the Attorney General's Office, where

the Attorney General's Office has agreed to litigate

what they view as, quote, unquote, a flawed EPA

proposal, which suggests to us that they've made a

premature decision to challenge whatever it is that EPA
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decides to do.

And finally, we think that even if that was

not the case, that there was some sort of political

influence at play here -- we think that the State

Implementation Plan as proposed by the Environment

Department is on very shaky ground on a technical level

and conflicts with various findings that EPA has already

made in its proposed Federal Implementation Plan.

So I think in significant part we risk wasting

New Mexico resources to put forth a plan that ultimately

will be rejected by the Environmental Protection Agency.

And EPA here, as much as there has been comments that

they are trying to impose a federal mandate here on New

Mexico, are only doing so as a measure of last resort,

because the State of New Mexico, frankly, has failed in

its obligations to submit an acceptable State

Implementation Plan.

So the problem here isn't EPA. EPA is simply

doing its job and, quite frankly, is simply trying to

represent the broader public interests in terms of

visibility protections.

EPA is not alone in recommending SCR

technology. The State of Colorado has submitted

comments supporting SCR technology. The National Park

Service has, the Fish & Wildlife Service has, as well as
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an expert that we contracted to provide comments to EPA,

Dr. Sahu, which we provided in our May 27th comments.

So we would recommend that this Board reject

the Department's proposal and join in those other

federal entities in supporting either SCR technology

or -- I think what the easiest thing to do here would be

to support EPA's Federal Implementation Plan.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich.

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MS. RYAN: I have a question.

Yeah. I'm -- our role here is to evaluate the

scientific evidence put in front of us, whether that

makes the improvements to the environment that we're

supposed to, and also balance that against other

interests of the public, including the health, welfare

of this -- the citizens of New Mexico.

And you've stated several times that several

other factors can be quantified.

And I'm just wondering, playing devil's

advocate here, why haven't they been quantified? Why

does all of the number of environmental groups that you

represent, which is quite a number of them, gotten

together and -- and put forth some scientific evidence
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for us to consider?

Because right now, there is none in front of

us. We have an opinion from -- an opinion from you, a

public comment, and that's all that we have. And I

don't have -- I don't have witnesses, I don't have data,

exhibits to consider on anything that you're saying.

And -- and as much as I want to be able to consider

that, that is not in front of me.

All that I have from you is a public comment.

So I -- that will be going into my personal

decision-making, is that I don't -- we're here to -- I

want to look at -- sensically look at all the evidence

in front of me, and I don't have technical testimony or

anything like that from your organizations.

So, I guess, why?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: I actually would

respectfully disagree with you, Madam Board Member. I

think in terms of technical evidence, you don't have to

go very far. I think you can look at EPA's Federal

Register notice dated January 5th, 2011, which goes into

detail in support of the selective catalytic reduction

technology.

I'd also point to you in the direction of the

testimony of Dr. Sahu, and that's contained in Exhibit

A, which we attached to our May 27th comments. And it's
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a little confusing here, but it's Exhibit -- it's

Exhibit 3, which is attached -- is part of Exhibit A.

And that's a technical analysis done by

somebody who has, frankly, far more technical expertise

than I do, and I wouldn't wager to wade into that

technical debate. But Dr. Sahu provides a very

convincing case of why SCR technology is valuable in

this instance. In fact, he critiques EPA's proposal and

says that EPA's proposal is far too lenient.

So in terms of technical evidence, I don't

think you have to go any farther than the EPA Federal

Register notice, as well as Dr. Sahu's testimony.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Madam Hearing Examiner, I was

going to make a clarifying statement or -- in terms of a

discussion I had with Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich about the

status of the filings that have been made on behalf of

his clients.

And my understanding is they are purely public

comment, that they are not testimony upon which this

Board can rely from a technical and evidentiary

standpoint in order to make a determination. If they

are, in fact, being offered as evidence, which is --

technical evidence and expert evidence, then I'm going

to have to object and also request that they be stricken

on several grounds.
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Of course, the materials were submitted

untimely pursuant to both the prehearing order in this

case, as well as in accordance with the Board's own

regulations and rules with respect to rulemaking, which

says if you don't submit your testimony by the deadline,

it will not be admitted.

Of course, we have not had an opportunity to

cross-examine or -- anyone from EPA or Dr. Sahu or

anyone else, so it's difficult to respond to what's been

filed.

So I think it's entirely improper for -- at

this juncture to try and bootstrap this commentary into

some type of testimony this Board can rely on on a legal

basis to make a ruling.

So I request that either those comments be

stricken from the record or, alternatively, that it be

clear on the record that they are nothing more than

public comment and opinion and not -- not evidence in

this case.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Just to respond before I invite the other

counsel, it's true that the rules and the procedural

order state that technical testimony not coming in by

the deadline set there will not be admitted, but public

comment did not have that same deadline.
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Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich and everyone else who made public

comment today and will make it tomorrow is entitled to

offer that comment, which will be admitted.

So yes, I agree with you, it can't be

technical testimony, and yet I think you went a little

too far when you said it can't be evidence that the

Board can rely on, because -- correct me if I'm wrong,

Mr. Vigil -- I believe this Board relies on technical

testimony and public comment and the other evidence in

front of it. It's still evidence, but you're right that

it's not technical evidence in reaching its decision.

MR. VIGIL: Well, Madam Hearing Officer, I

agree that the Board does rely on both public comment

and technical testimony.

I think the distinction, though, is that what

Mr. Alvidrez is referring to is that the attachment of

Dr. Sahu, which may have been technical in nature and

was filed improperly, and I think that's what -- if I'm

understanding correctly, the objection, that is what

he's asking to be stricken -- you know, Mr. Goodrich is

allowed to make public comment here, as you correctly

note, but I think the real -- I guess the heart of

the -- the dispute here is the technical nature of

something that came in ostensibly under public comment.

MS. ORTH: All right. And I was getting to
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that.

MR. VIGIL: Okay.

MS. ORTH: Sorry. I was making my more basic

point first.

So now on the question of whether

Dr. Sahu's -- excuse me -- report should be included,

I'll ask all of the lawyers for their opinion.

First, you, Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Well, let me state

first in terms of the objection to the public comment

letter, you know, provisions are provided for exhibits.

On terms of Dr. Sahu's exhibit specifically, this was

provided to EPA.

And I would agree with counsel for PNM

Resources to the extent that with public comment,

because it is not subject to the same level of

cross-examination, you do have some discretion to give

it lesser weight than other technical evidence. That is

certainly within your purview.

I think with Dr. Sahu's testimony, which has

already been submitted to EPA, the Board may be on some

shaky ground to ignore evidence that EPA has that it may

rely on in rejecting the State Implementation Plan.

So I would suggest that you consider it and,

obviously, give it the weight that you think it
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deserves. I have absolutely no problem with that given

that we're providing public comment, which is of a less

technical nature than providing technical testimony

through a notice of intent. So I have no problem on

that.

But I do think it should be considered. I do

think it's part of the record. I simply think you

should give it the weight that you think it deserves.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Grantham, do you have anything

to add?

MR. GRANTHAM: Yeah.

Madam Hearing Officer, the Department shares

the concerns that counsel for PNM raised in particular

with regard to Dr. Sahu's testimony. Technical

testimony as defined under 20.1.1 means scientific,

engineering, economic or other specialized testimony,

but does not include legal argument, general comments or

statements of policy or position.

So to the extent that counsel -- the

conservation groups offer technical testimony, in a

submission that was submitted well after the deadline

for the notice of intent, I'm not sure how the Board can

give that more or less weight. It's either in or it's

out.

And our position would be that the -- of
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course, the public comments should be accepted into the

record and given the weight that the Board deems

appropriate, but that should not include the comments of

Dr. Sahu. And whether or not EPA views that as relevant

in assessing our BART determination isn't really a

factor, because we have to look to the procedural

guidelines for this -- to the governing laws for this

proceeding, not EPA's.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you,

Mr. Grantham.

Mr. Rose?

Oh.

MR. ROSE: I'm hiding.

Madam Hearing Officer, we would join in the

comments from NMED's counsel and from PNM's counsel, but

I would note that the reason why the Board has a

dichotomy between public and technical testimony is,

one, to alert those who are going to participate in the

hearings ahead of time that there will be technical

testimony that they could provide responsive testimony

to and that the purpose for providing those in a notice

of intent and providing live testimony is to allow for

cross-examination of that testimony.

And with Dr. Sahu's testimony, we're not

provide -- being given the ability to cross-examine and
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question any of the assertions that he raises in his

testimony.

And for that reason, I think that the Board's

rules don't allow for that kind of testimony to be

treated as public, because I don't believe the Board can

really differentiate between give -- just on the weight

to give it as to -- as to how much importance it's

given.

I think the Board's already made that decision

when it decided its rules, and that testimony should

have been provided in person and subject to

cross-examination. And although Dr. Sahu did testify in

front of this Board sometime last summer, if you will

recall, on the greenhouse gas rules, so it's not as

though the Board isn't familiar with him.

But I think that's the proper way to do this

and prevent -- or present his opinions and allow them to

be cross-examined and, therefore, the Board be given the

benefit of that.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Mr. Roybal, do you have anything to add?

MR. ROYBAL: No, Madam Hearing Officer. I

would support the comments made by Mr. Rose and

Mr. Alvidrez and Department counsel.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.
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MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Madam Hearing

Officer, if I could make one -- I think there's one

important distinction here that has not been considered,

and that is Dr. Sahu did not provide testimony

specifically regarding the State Implementation Plan,

rather these were comments submitted to the

Environmental Protection Agency.

So I don't think it's necessarily the type of

technical testimony that this Board prohibits via public

comment, rather this was something submitted already to

EPA, that is in front of EPA, and merits consideration

by this Board because it is going to be a factor at some

level, who knows what weight they will give it, but will

be a factor in EPA's consideration of both its Federal

Implementation Plan and the state's approval.

But it's not specific to the state

implementation process. So I'm not sure it falls under

the definition of technical testimony that will be

prohibited via public comment.

MS. ORTH: Our general standard for what

constitutes technical testimony is testimony that to be

competent would require something more than a high

school degree. And I -- my impression is that

Dr. Sahu's testimony would meet that criteria.

So, Board, if this were a hearing in which I
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

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were making a recommendation, for example, to my cabinet

secretary, I would recommend that the cabinet secretary

not rely on that testimony for the reasons that have

been given, it's surprising, it's contrary to your rules

and the procedural order that I entered back in March,

and Dr. Sahu is not here in this hearing to be

cross-examined.

For all of those reasons, my recommendation

would be for you not to rely on it.

Mr. Vigil may have more advice for you.

MR. VIGIL: Madam Hearing Officer, I believe

your recommendation is sound.

I would also point out that the hearing rules,

especially Section 304, which governs participation by

the general public, says that public comment is

nontechnical testimony, and from what we've learned

here, it looks that Dr. Sahu, who does have a PhD and,

as Mr. Rose noted, did provide some very high level,

technical testimony last year in some of the hearings,

would definitely qualify as technical testimony.

MS. ORTH: Okay.

So, Board, what I don't want to lose here,

then -- Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich, then the ruling will be

that the testimony is excluded.

I don't want to lose here, though, as part of
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

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that ruling all of what Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich has said

or everything that was submitted on behalf of the

conservation groups. You've heard his other points, and

that, as far as I'm concerned, remains part of what you

can base your decision on.

All right. Is there anything else,

Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich?

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: No. I'm done.

MS. ORTH: All right. I think --

MR. FULFER: I have one question.

MS. ORTH: I'm sorry.

Mr. Fulfer.

MR. FULFER: I have one question.

In talking about public health benefits,

electricity drives the economy, it drives our modern

life. It's the thing that's lifted us out of the

woodburning cooking era days and woodburning heating

days and kind of brought us into a pollution-free

environment, unlike our neighbor to the south, in

Mexico.

So looking at the state, and being a poor

state at that, and the economy being in bad shape, in

your opinion, is it in our benefit and balance to all to

have a plant that provides a positive economic impact

and improving environmental impacts?
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MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Well, I think, as I

mentioned, that at some point the costs are borne by

people, whether that's in terms of an increase in the

ratepayer, how much a ratepayer pays to PNM Resources or

whether a child ends up having asthma and then has

increased health costs.

I certainly have no problem with electricity.

I love electricity. I power computers, iPods, my home

with it.

I think what all my client groups would

suggest is that the best way forward in terms of energy

is towards a transition to energy efficiency and to

clean energy technology, and that is far better both

from an electricity-producing perspective, from an

economic perspective and from a public health

perspective.

MR. FULFER: Okay.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

No?

All right. Thank you very much.

MR. SCHLENKER-GOODRICH: Thank you, Madam

Chair, Board members, Madam Hearing Officer.

MS. ORTH: All right. If there's nothing

else, we will recess and reconvene tomorrow morning in

Farmington at 9:00 a.m. at the college.
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

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Anything else at all?

MS. PEACOCK: I'd like to thank everybody who

provided testimony today and public comment. We really

appreciate it. And this is very interesting for us.

MS. ORTH: Thank you very much.

MS. PEACOCK: And we appreciate the written

materials, very well prepared.

(Proceedings adjourned at 1:47 p.m.)
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KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

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STATE OF NEW MEXICO )

) ss.

COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

I, CHERYL ARREGUIN, the officer before whom the

foregoing proceeding was taken, do hereby certify that

the witnesses whose testimony appears in the foregoing

transcript were duly sworn or affirmed; that I

personally recorded the testimony by machine shorthand;

that said transcript is a true record of the testimony

given by said witnesses; that I am neither attorney nor

counsel for, nor related to or employed by any of the

parties to the action in which this proceeding is taken,

and that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially

interested in the action.

 

NOTARY PUBLIC

CCR License Number: 21

Expires: 12/31/2011

My Commission Expires: 12/12/11
$

$10 [1] - 143:12

$10.93 [1] - 98:17

$11.50 [1] - 151:12

$2,000 [2] - 46:9,

156:2

$3,000 [1] - 46:9

$3,500 [1] - 107:17

$3,700 [1] - 156:4

$300 [2] - 78:9,

117:12

$320 [4] - 49:5, 52:3,

86:5, 91:5

$400 [1] - 57:2

$50,000 [1] - 49:24

$56 [1] - 85:15

$750 [1] - 148:22

$77 [2] - 53:4, 88:1

$80 [1] - 143:7

$800 [1] - 46:8

$82 [1] - 151:13

$85.31 [1] - 98:21

$900 [1] - 114:23

'

'90s [1] - 20:16

0

0.23 [1] - 93:19

07 [1] - 115:10

1

1 [19] - 1:24, 7:4,

29:16, 29:21, 30:2,

51:22, 84:1, 84:4,

98:17, 112:1, 112:20,

112:24, 113:13,

113:15, 114:4, 120:6,

120:25, 148:22,

154:23

1,000 [1] - 130:23

1,600 [1] - 154:22

1.3 [1] - 113:12

1.4 [2] - 98:18,

154:17

1.5 [1] - 154:17

10 [9] - 7:17, 22:23,

42:22, 90:23, 112:2,

112:25, 113:18,

138:25, 146:15

10,000 [1] - 57:21

100 [1] - 91:16

100-mile [1] - 144:10

101 [1] - 5:14

103 [1] - 9:10

11 [6] - 7:19, 42:22,

42:23, 98:22, 104:9,

107:4

11-01 [4] - 10:4,

48:17, 127:17, 139:22

11-01(R [1] - 1:3

11-02 [1] - 140:1

11.3 [2] - 98:23, 99:2

110 [1] - 5:15

1100 [1] - 3:5

1190 [2] - 2:4, 2:19

11:08 [1] - 76:14

11:27 [1] - 76:15

12 [2] - 7:21, 90:23

12/12/11 [1] - 173:22

12/31/2011 [1] -

173:20

122 [1] - 137:9

125 [1] - 90:18

12:49 [1] - 140:17

12th [1] - 59:12

13 [10] - 7:22, 8:4,

8:7, 113:13, 113:19,

113:21, 114:15,

114:23, 115:5, 134:21

130 [1] - 5:17

132 [1] - 5:19

134 [1] - 5:21

138 [1] - 5:23

13th [1] - 23:1

14 [3] - 7:24, 23:2,

102:7

141 [1] - 6:4

145 [1] - 6:6

147 [1] - 6:8

15 [2] - 8:4, 76:13

150 [1] - 6:10

1508 [1] - 2:13

152 [1] - 6:12

159 [1] - 6:13

16 [7] - 8:6, 57:13,

71:6, 111:8, 112:8,

125:16, 144:8

169A [1] - 7:4

169B [1] - 7:5

17 [6] - 8:8, 102:10,

103:5, 107:11,

107:12, 108:1

17,500 [1] - 155:22

18 [3] - 4:5, 8:10,

112:12

18,000 [1] - 144:18

19 [5] - 8:12, 29:16,

102:14, 104:2, 104:6

1962 [1] - 17:7

1969 [1] - 58:18

1977 [1] - 17:7

1981 [1] - 98:2

1:00 [1] - 128:20

1:05 [1] - 140:18

1:47 [1] - 172:8

1st [2] - 1:16, 17:21

2

2 [10] - 7:5, 36:13,

84:1, 84:4, 106:11,

109:11, 112:20,

120:4, 120:25, 130:10

2.3 [1] - 146:14

2.5 [7] - 113:6,

113:25, 114:1, 114:2,

114:16, 115:5

20 [18] - 7:22, 7:24,

8:14, 8:16, 18:3,

23:25, 24:4, 24:6,

26:3, 26:21, 29:17,

33:11, 33:12, 67:7,

104:22, 136:23,

143:3, 143:7

20.1.1 [2] - 10:10,

165:15

20.2.81 [1] - 7:24

200 [1] - 3:11

200-megawatt [1] -

90:18

2003 [9] - 16:8,

16:12, 16:17, 17:8,

20:14, 21:7, 21:14,

22:3, 22:15

2004 [1] - 33:25

2005 [10] - 21:15,

34:8, 34:18, 86:2,

86:23, 91:5, 91:8,

94:2, 94:10, 110:23

2006 [2] - 21:20, 91:8

2007 [7] - 79:4, 91:9,

94:5, 104:24, 108:9,

109:4, 109:5

2009 [8] - 34:8,

34:18, 49:5, 49:16,

72:8, 86:23, 91:6,

110:24

2010 [7] - 22:9,

26:21, 26:23, 31:5,

55:12, 67:1, 67:4

2011 [14] - 1:16,

7:22, 7:24, 8:4, 8:7,

8:8, 8:11, 8:16, 8:21,

16:14, 107:4, 107:14,

109:3, 160:20

2013 [3] - 24:11,

114:9, 124:7

2018 [6] - 24:3, 24:6,

34:1, 35:12, 114:10,

124:7

2053 [1] - 89:1

2064 [5] - 24:13,

35:6, 88:13, 88:16,

124:23

208 [1] - 3:16

20th [3] - 17:21,

23:3, 25:2

21 [6] - 8:17, 26:2,

29:17, 29:21, 30:2,

173:20

22 [3] - 85:9, 110:12,

112:12

23 [6] - 81:8, 95:13,

95:14, 111:21, 122:3,

155:20

2307 [1] - 3:22

24 [2] - 102:14,

150:22

24/7 [1] - 136:16

25 [7] - 8:21, 112:8,

113:5, 113:24, 114:3,

128:22, 155:20

25th [1] - 25:4

27 [1] - 81:8

27th [6] - 24:23,

129:8, 152:19,

157:16, 159:2, 160:25

28 [1] - 24:18

28.2.81 [1] - 22:25

280 [1] - 137:10

28th [1] - 17:19

29th [1] - 20:4

2nd [2] - 17:21,

22:23

3

3 [12] - 7:6, 33:22,

84:2, 84:4, 90:8,

95:10, 120:6, 120:25,

121:4, 121:11,

132:19, 161:2

30 [28] - 4:7, 7:4, 7:5,

7:7, 7:9, 7:11, 7:13,

7:14, 7:15, 7:16, 7:18,

7:20, 7:21, 7:23, 7:25,

8:5, 8:7, 8:8, 8:9,

8:11, 8:13, 8:16, 8:21,

85:18, 98:6, 137:8,

138:10, 138:15

300 [1] - 3:10

300-kilometer [1] -

111:9

304 [1] - 169:14

307 [1] - 1:19

308 [2] - 7:7, 21:22

309 [19] - 7:9, 7:18,

15:18, 15:20, 16:2,

16:7, 16:12, 16:21,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

1

16:23, 17:2, 17:8,

18:5, 21:5, 21:21,

21:23, 22:3, 22:13,

23:7, 24:7

309(g [12] - 7:20,

7:22, 8:15, 8:20,

16:22, 17:1, 17:12,

17:19, 21:5, 23:4,

23:18, 33:14

32 [1] - 4:8

320 [1] - 91:10

325 [1] - 3:23

35 [1] - 83:3

37 [1] - 84:2

39104 [1] - 7:11

394 [1] - 136:22

4

4 [8] - 7:8, 33:22,

84:2, 84:5, 85:21,

121:1, 121:8, 134:23

4,900 [3] - 49:14,

107:16, 155:23

4.5 [1] - 121:10

40 [6] - 7:6, 7:8, 7:10,

15:19, 21:23, 27:7

400 [2] - 85:5, 90:6

43 [1] - 150:17

44 [4] - 56:20, 85:10,

86:12, 94:1

45 [1] - 4:9

46 [1] - 136:25

47 [1] - 49:23

48 [1] - 4:11

490 [1] - 1:19

4s [1] - 121:8

5

5 [5] - 7:10, 33:23,

95:9, 121:1, 121:3

5.2.11 [2] - 7:18, 7:20

50 [4] - 4:13, 33:16,

88:19, 88:23

500 [2] - 3:5, 85:7

500,000 [2] - 83:21,

83:22

505 [4] - 2:14, 3:6,

3:12, 3:24

51 [2] - 7:11, 45:8

51.308 [1] - 7:6

51.309 [3] - 7:8,

15:19, 21:23

526 [1] - 136:25

53 [1] - 88:14

54 [2] - 4:15, 49:15

54.8 [1] - 137:4
5469 [1] - 2:18

55 [5] - 33:13, 33:15,

33:16, 33:20, 85:16

56 [3] - 4:17, 33:13,

33:19

57 [1] - 34:22

575 [2] - 2:20, 3:18

58 [1] - 4:19

598-4358 [1] - 3:12

5th [1] - 160:20

6

6 [3] - 8:5, 33:23

6,000-plus [1] - 74:5

6.4 [2] - 85:17, 137:5

602 [1] - 3:17

61 [1] - 4:21

613-4197 [1] - 3:18

63 [1] - 33:17

64 [1] - 4:23

65 [1] - 49:23

69 [1] - 4:25

6a [1] - 7:12

6i [1] - 7:12

7

7 [3] - 33:23, 98:22,

102:10

7,000 [1] - 48:20

70 [2] - 7:11, 114:24

71 [1] - 86:9

72 [1] - 49:23

74 [1] - 5:4

77 [2] - 5:5, 155:18

779-1627 [1] - 2:20

7a [1] - 7:14

7d [1] - 42:21

7u [1] - 7:14

8

8 [2] - 33:23, 94:5

8.4 [2] - 39:13,

154:15

80 [3] - 67:2, 67:6,

142:6

82 [1] - 5:7

824-4737 [1] - 3:6

827-6040 [1] - 2:14

83 [1] - 8:25

85 [1] - 118:6

87 [1] - 5:8

87102 [1] - 3:6

87401 [1] - 3:11

87501 [1] - 2:5

87502-5469 [1] - 2:20

87504-1508 [1] - 2:13

87504-2307 [1] - 3:23

87571 [1] - 3:17

8a [3] - 7:15, 16:1,

20:25

8b [1] - 20:25

8c [3] - 7:15, 17:17,

21:1

9

9 [4] - 33:5, 94:5,

102:6, 120:22

9-1 [4] - 33:5, 33:17,

33:22, 35:10

9-2 [1] - 33:22

9.2 [1] - 33:6

9.2.1 [1] - 33:5

9.8 [1] - 154:15

90 [1] - 155:18

93 [1] - 133:24

96 [1] - 5:10

97 [1] - 9:6

982-3873 [1] - 3:24

99 [1] - 5:12

9:00 [2] - 140:24,

171:25

9:40 [1] - 1:20

9a [4] - 7:16, 16:16,

19:15, 22:22

9b [3] - 7:16, 19:16,

23:17

A

a.m [5] - 1:20, 76:14,

76:15, 140:24, 171:25

ability [2] - 80:18,

166:25

able [11] - 45:24,

73:15, 79:11, 79:15,

93:7, 93:18, 93:21,

128:21, 135:10,

136:2, 160:7

about-face [1] -

55:20

absolutely [2] -

140:14, 165:1

Academy [2] - 67:25,

68:13

accept [8] - 11:12,

13:4, 22:16, 47:2,

88:3, 88:7, 139:9,

141:1

acceptable [3] -

43:13, 43:14, 158:16

accepted [6] - 27:25,

28:18, 44:4, 63:11,

76:19, 166:1

accepting [2] -

38:15, 46:20

accepts [1] - 28:22

access [1] - 124:25

accidentally [1] -

102:7

accommodation [1]

- 128:25

accomplished [1] -

49:3

accordance [2] -

10:9, 162:3

according [1] - 65:13

account [5] - 41:15,

72:17, 73:20, 98:14,

123:25

accountable [1] -

72:14

accounting [1] -

91:23

accurate [1] - 137:3

achieve [7] - 52:6,

53:4, 80:19, 114:15,

124:22, 125:16

achieved [1] -

125:20

achieving [2] -

88:13, 88:15

acid [1] - 94:14

acquired [1] - 155:9

act [4] - 21:9, 85:3,

112:18

Act [6] - 7:4, 7:5,

54:24, 114:7, 153:8,

155:10

acted [1] - 16:8

action [5] - 51:24,

53:13, 53:14, 173:14,

173:17

activities [3] - 85:23,

94:4

actual [6] - 13:17,

28:14, 33:21, 34:10,

34:18, 143:12

add [6] - 28:25,

104:13, 112:15,

115:24, 165:10,

167:21

added [3] - 25:6,

25:7, 94:15

adding [1] - 114:22

addition [1] - 28:25

additional [15] -

7:17, 7:19, 16:23,

22:25, 23:5, 42:24,

42:25, 52:5, 87:2,

88:8, 99:2, 109:6,

125:7, 126:25, 152:18

Additionally [1] -

102:11

additions [1] -

106:20

address [12] - 21:19,

49:10, 65:8, 65:25,

78:19, 110:17, 127:6,

146:18, 148:4, 149:6,

150:16, 150:24

addressed [2] -

16:17, 110:25

addressing [3] -

65:4, 148:3, 150:12

adds [1] - 40:20

adequacy [1] - 77:11

adequately [1] -

55:21

adjourned [1] -

172:8

administration [4] -

98:3, 144:24, 146:1,

146:2

Administrative [2] -

29:8, 29:10

administrator[1] -

11:3

admission [4] -

29:15, 83:8, 97:15,

103:18

admissions [1] -

29:20

ADMITTED [3] - 7:2,

8:2, 9:2

admitted [13] - 30:1,

30:2, 83:10, 83:11,

97:18, 97:20, 103:21,

103:22, 156:25,

162:6, 162:24, 163:3

adopt [12] - 29:3,

48:25, 82:21, 97:11,

102:19, 103:14,

131:23, 134:7,

137:18, 146:25,

147:24, 157:18

adopted [2] - 21:14,

148:18

adoption [1] - 80:24

Adoption [1] - 8:13

advantage [1] -

38:16

advice [1] - 169:10

advises [1] - 29:5

advocacy [1] - 55:1

advocate [2] - 52:19,

159:22

advocated [1] -

54:24

affect [2] - 71:11,

151:17

affected [5] - 70:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

2

71:2, 71:6, 71:10,

146:21

affecting [1] - 25:18

affects [1] - 65:1

affirmed [24] - 18:11,

48:4, 50:15, 54:7,

56:13, 58:9, 61:9,

64:10, 69:20, 74:19,

81:23, 82:2, 96:9,

101:15, 130:4,

132:13, 134:14,

138:4, 141:17, 145:9,

147:5, 150:6, 152:13,

173:9

afforded [1] - 31:12

afternoon [1] -

129:11

agencies [1] - 24:16

Agency [3] - 3:20,

158:11, 168:7

ago [6] - 13:19,

40:12, 60:16, 95:2,

142:14

agree [3] - 163:4,

163:13, 164:14

agreed [2] - 62:4,

157:22

agreement [4] - 22:8,

30:4, 38:4, 91:12

agreements [2] -

84:11

ahead [6] - 61:1,

81:20, 81:24, 96:5,

112:4, 166:19

aid [1] - 77:5

aiding [1] - 67:18

Air [13] - 7:4, 7:5,

15:5, 15:7, 18:19,

20:8, 20:18, 25:16,

39:25, 54:24, 114:7,

153:8, 155:9

air [23] - 49:2, 52:4,

55:1, 56:21, 57:7,

58:20, 61:20, 62:2,

66:8, 67:21, 68:10,

75:18, 75:19, 78:10,

102:11, 104:7, 108:2,

108:4, 109:7, 123:5,

125:9, 143:15, 146:20

Alamos [3] - 56:21,

56:25, 57:5

Albuquerque [9] -

3:6, 22:6, 22:12,

61:24, 63:22, 65:9,

70:10, 96:23, 138:15

alcoholics [1] -

57:22

alert [2] - 128:23,

166:18

allegiance [1] -
52:10

Alliance [8] - 3:14,

12:9, 24:22, 31:1,

48:15, 48:19, 99:23,

153:6

allow [6] - 28:5,

45:18, 107:8, 166:22,

167:4, 167:17

allowed [2] - 28:4,

163:21

allows [3] - 23:6,

43:7, 43:10

alluded [1] - 137:2

alluding [1] - 121:5

almost [3] - 60:19,

104:9, 143:1

alone [1] - 158:22

alternative [1] - 53:8

alternatively [1] -

162:16

alternatives [4] -

53:11, 53:13, 75:11,

88:9

altogether[1] -

57:17

Alvidrez [16] - 5:5,

5:7, 5:10, 5:14, 11:23,

12:1, 30:7, 76:23,

77:1, 95:17, 100:24,

123:21, 126:4,

127:13, 163:16,

167:24

ALVIDREZ [41] - 3:3,

11:24, 29:23, 30:9,

76:24, 81:18, 81:25,

82:5, 83:7, 83:12,

87:6, 95:18, 95:25,

96:6, 96:12, 96:13,

96:15, 97:14, 97:21,

99:4, 100:25, 101:6,

101:9, 101:12,

101:17, 101:23,

102:2, 102:18,

102:22, 103:2, 103:6,

103:11, 103:17,

103:23, 104:14,

107:20, 109:14,

123:22, 126:5,

127:14, 161:13

American [4] - 85:9,

85:11, 135:17, 136:23

Americans [1] -

136:25

ammonia [3] - 93:7,

93:8, 93:11

amount [8] - 43:12,

43:14, 52:5, 106:3,

132:2, 143:16, 154:15

analyses [9] - 16:20,

104:12, 104:13,

108:7, 108:9, 109:1,

109:6, 109:8, 111:3

analysis [50] - 25:11,

28:3, 28:18, 31:10,

31:19, 32:1, 40:21,

41:1, 41:25, 42:7,

42:9, 42:23, 52:13,

53:12, 55:8, 79:4,

79:12, 86:18, 86:20,

86:21, 98:13, 99:25,

100:3, 100:6, 100:11,

102:9, 104:23, 105:7,

107:5, 107:6, 107:10,

107:14, 108:13,

109:3, 109:5, 110:9,

110:20, 111:22,

112:10, 119:5,

125:13, 125:14,

125:18, 125:23,

125:24, 154:12, 161:3

analyze [1] - 115:7

analyzed [3] - 123:2,

126:20, 156:23

Anderson [1] - 98:4

ANDREW [1] - 3:21

annual [6] - 49:24,

85:15, 85:17, 117:5,

154:16

annualized [1] - 43:1

answer [7] - 41:14,

42:14, 45:5, 53:15,

79:11, 93:6, 109:12

anyplace [1] - 151:5

anyway [3] - 14:10,

51:1, 121:24

Apache [1] - 34:24

apologize [3] -

36:10, 38:12, 121:19

apparent [1] - 80:22

appeal [1] - 68:2

appear [1] - 149:16

appearances [3] -

10:8, 11:14, 32:6

Appendix [3] - 7:10,

42:22, 45:8

applications [1] -

108:4

applied [2] - 105:24,

117:3

applies [1] - 21:23

apply [1] - 115:12

appointed [2] - 10:3,

67:25

appreciate [8] - 70:6,

130:15, 132:6,

136:12, 137:24,

144:20, 172:4, 172:6

appropriate [3] -

79:23, 112:15, 166:3

approvable [2] -

22:4, 22:7

approval [1] - 168:15

approve [7] - 16:14,

37:20, 41:20, 53:6,

53:7, 122:12, 155:13

approved [9] - 16:7,

20:15, 21:8, 22:14,

36:19, 37:16, 37:18,

119:12, 120:8

April [1] - 17:21

AQC [1] - 123:1

area [31] - 16:17,

16:19, 21:25, 22:1,

33:17, 39:15, 40:6,

40:8, 40:18, 40:22,

71:22, 73:13, 73:17,

78:6, 85:13, 86:1,

104:8, 114:11, 123:3,

123:6, 125:10, 128:7,

130:25, 133:21,

135:3, 137:13, 142:9,

142:23, 143:17,

146:21, 153:12

areas [33] - 16:23,

17:2, 21:24, 23:5,

23:24, 24:5, 24:8,

25:19, 32:19, 34:5,

35:11, 36:1, 51:15,

60:12, 71:1, 71:5,

71:6, 71:9, 75:16,

90:19, 100:13,

104:17, 106:16,

108:23, 111:8, 112:9,

124:14, 124:21,

125:16, 135:19,

144:10

argue [2] - 67:10,

90:10

argument [1] -

165:17

arguments [1] -

52:24

Arizona [2] - 21:20,

135:1

arrangement [1] -

117:16

Arreguin [1] - 10:25

ARREGUIN [1] -

173:6

Arrington [1] - 3:10

arrived [1] - 22:8

ash [2] - 66:14,

137:11

aside [2] - 154:20,

156:21

aspects [1] - 108:13

assertions [1] -

167:1

assess [1] - 106:8

assessing [2] -

78:24, 166:5

assessment [1] -

77:11

assistance [3] -

27:8, 67:17

Assistant [1] - 2:11

assistant [3] - 11:18,

104:21, 108:10

assisted [1] - 108:10

associated [3] -

42:1, 98:11, 133:12

Association [2] -

147:16, 147:22

association [3] -

147:18, 150:14,

150:15

assumptions [1] -

41:6

assure [1] - 13:11

asthma [6] - 71:14,

71:16, 75:14, 143:16,

154:4, 171:5

atomic [1] - 57:1

attached [2] -

160:25, 161:2

attachment [1] -

163:16

attacks [1] - 71:14

attention [3] - 29:11,

69:16, 137:24

attorney [4] - 15:1,

77:1, 173:12, 173:15

Attorney [4] - 2:11,

2:12, 157:21, 157:22

Attorneys [2] - 3:4,

3:22

audience [1] - 56:19

August [2] - 22:9,

41:21

authorized [1] - 28:7

Available [6] - 17:6,

17:9, 22:17, 23:20,

26:25, 27:19

available [9] - 12:25,

15:22, 60:8, 72:1,

86:15, 88:4, 105:23,

119:25, 145:2

average [1] - 117:20

aware [10] - 40:10,

68:6, 68:11, 96:16,

119:12, 119:14,

119:17, 121:25,

130:20, 138:18

awestruck [1] -

58:19

Aztec [1] - 135:18

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

3

B

B&V-4 [1] - 102:15

B-A-N-D-Y [1] -

132:18

B-R-O-W-N [1] -

64:16

baby [2] - 115:9,

115:14

bachelor[3] - 19:5,

98:1, 104:4

background [5] -

19:4, 83:1, 97:25,

103:25, 107:25

backstop [3] - 21:16,

21:17, 38:18

BACT [3] - 104:13,

116:25, 117:3

bad [1] - 170:22

bagful [1] - 59:16

baghouse [2] - 91:14

balance [6] - 50:1,

87:3, 139:7, 149:19,

159:16, 170:23

balanced [3] -

117:24, 118:3, 121:16

balancing [2] -

31:24, 117:22

ballpark [1] - 46:10

Bandelier [1] -

144:11

BANDY [4] - 5:18,

132:12, 132:18,

134:12

Bandy [1] - 132:18

bar [1] - 40:7

BART [57] - 7:10,

7:14, 17:10, 17:14,

26:9, 26:16, 26:20,

27:10, 27:23, 37:7,

38:9, 44:19, 45:7,

45:10, 46:2, 46:3,

46:12, 72:24, 78:14,

79:4, 79:9, 80:14,

80:17, 81:3, 86:18,

86:23, 92:15, 102:8,

104:11, 104:23,

105:6, 105:8, 105:20,

107:4, 107:6, 107:8,

107:9, 107:14, 114:6,

116:25, 118:21,

119:7, 119:12,

119:24, 120:14,

122:2, 123:8, 124:9,

125:8, 125:9, 125:13,

125:23, 125:24,

142:5, 144:16, 166:5

BARTs [3] - 119:6,

119:14, 119:18
base [12] - 42:3,

64:2, 83:17, 83:18,

84:19, 89:9, 89:10,

90:6, 133:23, 134:2,

134:5, 170:5

based [13] - 28:5,

31:6, 32:12, 35:13,

35:14, 35:15, 39:15,

70:9, 87:22, 98:13,

110:2, 149:12, 149:15

baseline [10] - 23:11,

34:1, 41:8, 110:21,

110:22, 111:7,

111:12, 111:17,

112:5, 123:1

baselines [4] - 41:2,

41:9, 41:11, 41:15

basic [2] - 152:24,

164:3

Basin [1] - 153:14

basing [1] - 72:18

basis [11] - 20:20,

34:3, 111:18, 111:23,

112:7, 112:10,

112:13, 114:5, 162:14

BATES [27] - 4:4,

18:10, 18:17, 18:19,

18:23, 19:2, 19:5,

19:9, 19:15, 21:6,

24:19, 33:2, 33:9,

33:12, 33:16, 33:20,

34:2, 34:6, 34:13,

34:15, 34:17, 35:1,

35:10, 35:23, 37:19,

39:17, 39:22

Bates [8] - 7:16,

15:4, 18:15, 18:17,

21:3, 24:15, 26:6,

32:18

Bates' [1] - 16:16

BE [1] - 1:16

bear [2] - 149:1,

154:2

beat [1] - 81:8

Beaumont [1] -

69:11

beautiful [2] - 70:23,

75:17

became [2] - 57:22,

80:22

becomes [1] - 11:2

becoming [2] -

44:12, 108:5

beef [1] - 97:25

BEFORE [1] - 1:1

began [3] - 22:9,

108:16, 110:23

BEGAY [3] - 5:20,

134:13, 134:19

Begay [2] - 134:20,

138:1

begin [5] - 11:20,

14:2, 97:24, 122:18,

141:9

beginning [1] - 117:7

Behalf [3] - 8:24, 9:5,

9:9

behalf [11] - 12:2,

29:23, 61:25, 81:19,

82:14, 134:22,

134:23, 147:21,

149:20, 161:16, 170:2

behind [1] - 74:8

beloved [1] - 62:1

below [2] - 95:14,

125:4

Benedict [1] - 68:1

beneficial [2] -

110:10, 137:13

benefit [4] - 52:12,

132:4, 167:19, 170:23

benefit/cost [1] -

52:7

benefits [20] - 31:10,

31:15, 45:9, 45:12,

59:25, 60:9, 60:13,

78:10, 148:12,

153:18, 153:21,

154:14, 154:16,

154:21, 154:25,

155:16, 156:21,

157:6, 170:14

benefitted [2] -

135:25, 136:6

BERNALILLO [1] -

173:3

best [12] - 13:9,

13:10, 23:25, 24:4,

65:17, 72:1, 86:15,

88:4, 119:25, 135:12,

151:7, 171:11

Best [6] - 17:6, 17:9,

22:17, 23:20, 26:25,

27:19

better [7] - 14:16,

37:22, 63:2, 116:14,

139:6, 146:3, 171:13

between [31] - 17:7,

18:4, 21:4, 24:12,

26:13, 26:21, 27:22,

27:24, 28:15, 35:19,

37:25, 50:1, 65:12,

71:19, 73:3, 79:16,

80:9, 80:16, 90:25,

100:8, 115:2, 115:5,

115:6, 115:22,

116:17, 139:7, 155:3,

157:14, 166:17, 167:6

Beverlee [4] - 141:4,

147:3, 147:10, 147:15

BEVERLEE [3] - 6:7,

147:4, 147:11

beyond [4] - 32:25,

41:13, 55:6, 124:15

BHP [3] - 3:10,

13:22, 136:10

biased [1] - 72:19

Big [1] - 57:20

big [4] - 73:3, 73:24,

75:12, 127:20

bigger [1] - 126:2

bill [8] - 52:9, 98:10,

98:16, 98:19, 98:21,

98:23, 100:5

BILL [1] - 2:17

Bill [2] - 11:18, 14:25

bill.grantham@

state.nm.us [1] - 2:21

billion [7] - 52:5,

53:9, 88:11, 146:14,

148:22, 154:15,

154:17

Billiton [3] - 3:10,

13:23, 136:10

bills [3] - 27:9, 53:18,

143:8

biology [1] - 19:6

Bishop [1] - 69:8

bit [6] - 15:11, 39:20,

73:16, 78:3, 110:11,

115:12

bituminous [1] -

38:2

Black [12] - 9:7, 79:3,

98:14, 101:22, 103:4,

104:1, 104:6, 104:22,

108:1, 108:6, 110:2,

113:11

blackmailed [1] -

53:6

blame [1] - 50:24

BLM [1] - 134:1

Bloomfield [1] -

135:18

blue [2] - 142:3,

144:14

BOARD [5] - 1:1,

32:16, 87:24, 110:5,

159:11

board [2] - 69:11,

90:16

Board [102] - 1:18,

2:6, 4:8, 5:8, 5:15,

6:13, 10:3, 11:6,

11:25, 12:25, 13:7,

14:12, 14:24, 15:12,

16:7, 20:15, 24:12,

24:23, 25:2, 29:3,

29:5, 32:13, 36:8,

41:24, 42:13, 43:15,

44:7, 44:14, 44:25,

46:19, 47:16, 50:10,

50:23, 56:19, 75:1,

75:4, 76:10, 76:25,

77:5, 77:17, 78:23,

79:19, 79:20, 80:2,

80:5, 82:24, 83:13,

87:20, 87:21, 91:3,

95:16, 96:19, 97:23,

100:20, 100:21,

104:17, 107:21,

110:1, 110:10,

116:21, 122:10,

123:20, 123:23,

126:12, 127:5,

127:25, 137:18,

138:13, 138:16,

138:18, 139:9,

139:16, 141:13,

145:25, 146:24,

152:18, 152:20,

155:11, 155:13,

159:3, 160:17,

161:20, 162:13,

163:7, 163:8, 163:13,

164:21, 165:22,

166:2, 166:16, 167:5,

167:13, 167:15,

167:18, 168:9,

168:12, 168:25,

169:22, 171:18,

171:22

Board's [8] - 10:10,

25:23, 77:11, 81:2,

96:2, 162:3, 167:3,

167:9

Boardman [3] -

119:10, 119:11,

121:25

body [2] - 137:16,

137:21

boiler [15] - 59:17,

93:11, 116:1, 117:23,

117:24, 118:1, 118:2,

118:10, 118:12,

118:16, 123:13,

123:15, 123:17

bombs [1] - 57:1

bootstrap [1] -

162:12

border [1] - 135:2

borderline [1] -

88:11

born [1] - 62:1

borne [2] - 100:7,

171:2

Bosque [1] - 34:24

bottom [3] - 60:12,

112:11, 143:1

bounce [1] - 36:10

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

4

bounds [1] - 28:17

Box [2] - 2:18, 3:22

brainer [1] - 152:6

bread [1] - 68:10

break [9] - 46:20,

46:23, 76:7, 76:10,

76:17, 76:18, 96:1,

139:16, 140:19

breathe [4] - 59:5,

68:10, 75:18, 75:19

brief [3] - 77:4,

97:25, 103:24

briefed [1] - 126:19

briefly [5] - 21:3,

82:24, 83:12, 97:21,

107:21

bright [2] - 43:20,

44:5

bring [4] - 11:12,

16:12, 52:23, 144:17

bringing [1] - 73:10

brings [2] - 41:12,

73:11

broader [6] - 100:2,

100:3, 126:1, 153:11,

155:1, 158:20

brothers [4] - 62:16,

65:1, 67:13, 67:19

brought [3] - 20:21,

91:10, 170:18

Brown [3] - 64:8,

64:15, 64:21

brown [3] - 69:17,

142:10, 142:11

BROWN [4] - 4:22,

64:9, 64:15, 64:18

Bruce [2] - 58:7,

58:14

BRUCE [3] - 4:18,

58:8, 58:14

brunt [1] - 149:1

BRYCE [11] - 2:9,

40:25, 41:9, 41:11,

41:17, 42:20, 87:25,

88:17, 89:2, 89:22,

91:2

BTU [4] - 93:19,

95:9, 95:10, 95:14

Building [2] - 1:18,

2:4

building [7] - 13:1,

42:1, 42:3, 59:22,

115:9, 117:6

buildings [2] -

151:19, 151:23

built [5] - 17:7, 57:1,

60:18, 60:19, 90:17

bunch [2] - 57:8,

119:7

burden [3] - 126:25,
127:2, 139:1

burdens [1] - 126:25

burdensome [3] -

27:6, 27:13, 31:22

Bureau [6] - 15:5,

15:6, 15:7, 18:20,

20:1, 20:8

burn [1] - 123:14

burners [5] - 94:1,

95:4, 95:7, 118:22,

119:25

burning [6] - 59:17,

62:5, 62:8, 62:12,

66:7, 66:14

business [8] - 59:6,

65:23, 68:21, 83:2,

98:3, 98:7, 147:19,

149:1

businesses [4] -

66:20, 146:6, 151:18,

151:20

buy [1] - 133:6

BY [12] - 18:14,

30:22, 32:16, 82:5,

83:12, 87:24, 96:12,

96:15, 97:21, 99:18,

110:5, 159:11

bypass [1] - 91:15

C

C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D

[1] - 50:21

cabinet [2] - 169:1,

169:2

calculate [2] - 67:23,

81:6

calculation [1] -

23:11

calculations [2] -

28:23, 108:4

Caldwell [1] - 61:6

CALLAN [4] - 6:3,

141:10, 141:16,

141:22

cannot [3] - 62:25,

64:3, 67:23

Canyon [3] - 15:21,

16:20, 20:17

capacities [2] - 83:3,

98:8

capacity [7] - 83:17,

83:18, 85:3, 96:20,

99:2, 131:9, 147:18

capita [1] - 143:1

capital [9] - 42:10,

84:8, 92:1, 93:9,

98:15, 117:5, 141:23,

147:11, 154:18

Capitol [1] - 1:18

captured [1] - 66:11

carbon [1] - 62:11

Care [1] - 153:3

care [1] - 64:25

cares [1] - 51:23

caretaker [1] -

136:18

Carla [3] - 47:22,

48:9, 48:13

CARLA [3] - 4:10,

48:3, 48:9

Carlsbad [1] - 23:25

carries [1] - 66:8

CASCIANO [40] -

2:8, 32:17, 33:8,

33:11, 33:15, 33:19,

33:25, 34:3, 34:12,

34:14, 34:16, 34:19,

35:9, 35:13, 35:18,

36:6, 42:9, 42:17,

43:2, 43:4, 43:9,

43:19, 43:22, 44:3,

44:6, 93:24, 94:8,

94:23, 95:15, 116:22,

118:20, 119:17,

119:21, 120:20,

121:18, 122:21,

123:4, 124:17,

125:12, 125:21

Casciano [2] - 43:15,

123:23

Casciano's [1] -

36:12

case [33] - 14:5,

14:9, 14:10, 14:11,

21:15, 36:22, 47:2,

51:6, 74:1, 77:3,

77:20, 77:23, 77:25,

79:22, 80:6, 81:13,

82:16, 82:22, 83:1,

92:12, 97:5, 101:25,

103:8, 103:15, 111:5,

113:11, 119:5,

127:15, 158:3, 161:7,

162:3, 162:19

Case [1] - 48:16

case-by-case [1] -

119:5

cases [1] - 34:9

catalyst [2] - 115:11,

115:24

catalytic [10] - 26:16,

26:24, 49:19, 55:13,

72:4, 78:20, 118:22,

119:19, 155:5, 160:21

catastrophically [1]

- 65:12

catching [2] - 44:10,

44:12

Catholic [1] - 69:13

caused [1] - 71:19

causes [1] - 68:4

causing [5] - 24:3,

65:7, 66:1, 118:17,

154:9

Caverns [1] - 23:25

CCR [1] - 173:20

celebrate [1] - 61:25

Center [5] - 3:16,

12:7, 24:24, 30:25,

152:25

cents [1] - 67:24

certain [6] - 15:22,

16:24, 17:6, 43:12,

43:13, 104:14

certainly [20] - 13:5,

44:15, 44:18, 46:10,

47:14, 77:14, 80:1,

102:25, 107:23,

110:19, 114:18,

131:6, 131:18,

133:21, 138:20,

142:11, 142:23,

156:18, 164:19, 171:7

certify [1] - 173:7

cetera [2] - 63:22,

151:23

CFR [5] - 7:6, 7:8,

7:10, 15:19, 21:23

chair [1] - 20:19

Chair [5] - 14:23,

54:3, 138:12, 147:14,

171:22

Chairman [2] -

50:23, 76:25

challenge [3] - 64:1,

115:23, 157:25

challenges [2] -

69:2, 119:5

Chamber [1] -

147:17

chance [2] - 70:4,

149:17

change [30] - 40:14,

40:15, 47:10, 51:18,

51:22, 52:6, 53:14,

53:16, 53:17, 62:15,

63:12, 63:13, 64:25,

67:9, 68:5, 75:13,

112:1, 112:2, 112:12,

112:25, 113:5, 113:7,

113:10, 113:18,

113:25, 114:3,

114:15, 114:16,

126:23

changed [1] - 26:20

changes [9] - 17:25,

21:12, 29:8, 82:19,

97:8, 115:25, 124:10,

125:5, 125:7

Chapter [1] - 153:5

characteristics [3] -

108:21, 111:14,

112:17

characterize [1] -

116:24

Charles [1] - 12:15

CHARLES [1] - 3:9

charles.ce.roybal@

bhpbilliton.com [1] -

3:12

charts [3] - 40:8,

51:6, 65:20

cheapest [1] -

131:14

check [1] - 76:1

chemicals [1] -

93:12

cherish [1] - 142:2

CHERYL [1] - 173:6

Cheryl [3] - 10:25,

11:1, 140:14

chief [5] - 15:6, 15:7,

18:24, 20:1, 20:8

child [2] - 154:4,

171:5

children [5] - 61:25,

62:1, 66:17, 67:23,

69:3

choice [1] - 145:20

choices [1] - 80:8

choose [2] - 11:7,

44:20

choosing [2] - 53:10,

59:9

chosen [1] - 120:17

Churches [1] - 69:10

circuit [1] - 21:15

circulators [1] -

125:2

circumstances [1] -

90:12

citation [1] - 152:21

citizen [4] - 24:22,

51:3, 150:17, 150:25

citizens [7] - 27:14,

64:20, 68:22, 126:18,

131:21, 132:1, 159:18

Citizens [6] - 3:14,

12:9, 24:22, 31:1,

99:23, 153:6

City [3] - 22:6, 22:11,

137:14

Civil [1] - 2:12

clarification [1] -

84:15

clarifies [1] - 36:7

clarify [4] - 45:11,

92:22, 124:1, 125:23

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

5

clarifying [1] -

161:14

Class [27] - 16:17,

16:19, 16:23, 17:2,

21:24, 21:25, 23:4,

23:5, 23:24, 24:5,

24:8, 25:19, 32:19,

33:17, 34:5, 36:1,

51:14, 71:1, 71:6,

100:13, 108:22,

111:8, 112:9, 124:14,

124:21, 125:16, 144:9

classification [1] -

38:8

classified [1] - 80:19

Clean [5] - 7:4,

54:24, 114:7, 153:8,

155:9

clean [20] - 7:5,

44:13, 49:2, 56:23,

58:4, 61:1, 62:2, 63:2,

63:3, 63:4, 63:13,

68:10, 68:18, 69:2,

75:11, 75:18, 88:20,

144:14, 171:13

cleaner [1] - 75:19

cleaning [2] - 52:3,

57:7

clear [4] - 40:6,

61:20, 144:14, 162:17

clearly [3] - 59:5,

59:13, 143:24

client [1] - 171:10

clients [1] - 161:17

climate [10] - 59:6,

59:7, 62:15, 64:25,

65:15, 65:20, 66:1,

66:10, 68:4, 75:13

Cline [1] - 128:6

close [3] - 38:19,

52:16, 116:4

closed [1] - 66:20

closely [1] - 27:3

closer [1] - 102:24

closing [1] - 52:19

closure [2] - 11:7,

11:13

Club [5] - 70:9,

71:25, 74:6, 153:5

CLURE [4] - 6:7,

147:4, 147:10, 147:13

co [1] - 20:19

co-chair [1] - 20:19

Coal [8] - 3:8, 3:9,

12:15, 13:23, 85:6,

85:11, 128:3, 140:23

coal [36] - 44:11,

44:13, 44:16, 44:24,

57:6, 57:16, 57:18,

57:23, 57:24, 60:21,
62:5, 62:7, 62:8,

62:12, 62:14, 62:20,

63:7, 63:9, 66:7,

66:11, 66:12, 66:21,

66:23, 72:7, 72:13,

75:5, 75:12, 84:13,

85:7, 85:16, 122:3,

130:22, 131:14,

135:22, 137:4, 137:10

coal-fired [7] - 44:16,

44:24, 62:14, 62:20,

66:12, 66:21, 66:23

Coalition [1] - 71:7

Coast [2] - 65:22

code [2] - 118:6,

118:14

Code [1] - 29:10

collect [1] - 86:7

college [4] - 13:1,

60:17, 140:24, 171:25

Colorado [5] - 21:24,

21:25, 37:17, 120:2,

158:23

column [1] - 76:1

combination [2] -

49:7, 115:14

combined [2] -

49:16, 112:22

combustion [2] -

86:11, 91:14

combustors [1] -

95:6

comfortable [1] -

136:11

coming [5] - 117:25,

136:13, 144:24,

146:5, 162:23

commenced [1] -

91:8

comment [55] -

10:21, 10:23, 11:10,

11:11, 12:20, 13:5,

13:10, 14:1, 14:4,

14:7, 14:8, 14:15,

42:7, 46:21, 47:2,

47:5, 47:11, 47:15,

47:16, 70:5, 76:4,

76:6, 92:10, 119:15,

126:8, 128:13,

128:16, 129:10,

129:21, 139:19,

139:22, 140:1, 141:2,

141:7, 141:12,

152:23, 160:4, 160:9,

161:19, 162:18,

162:25, 163:2, 163:3,

163:9, 163:13,

163:21, 163:24,

164:10, 164:15,

165:2, 168:10,

168:19, 169:15, 172:3

commentary [1] -

162:12

commenters [2] -

76:20, 77:24

commenting [2] -

70:15, 70:17

comments [43] -

7:23, 7:25, 8:4, 8:6,

8:9, 8:10, 17:24, 23:1,

24:16, 24:19, 24:22,

24:25, 25:2, 25:4,

25:5, 25:8, 25:9, 26:1,

26:9, 26:11, 47:20,

47:23, 64:19, 80:2,

89:22, 129:7, 130:16,

132:5, 141:14,

157:16, 158:12,

158:24, 159:1, 159:2,

160:25, 162:15,

165:17, 166:1, 166:3,

166:15, 167:23, 168:6

Comments [1] - 8:18

Commerce [3] -

147:16, 147:17,

147:23

commercial [1] -

90:24

Commission [4] -

15:21, 20:17, 29:9,

173:22

commission [1] -

97:2

Commission's [1] -

16:20

committed [2] - 68:8,

90:21

committee [2] -

128:20, 147:14

Committee [1] -

130:15

common [3] - 51:11,

67:8, 135:4

communicate [1] -

136:7

communities [6] -

63:5, 64:24, 66:5,

66:16, 67:15, 68:5

community [4] -

62:3, 73:8, 75:2,

130:24

companies [1] -

48:21

COMPANY [2] - 8:22,

9:3

company [3] - 55:7,

90:21, 136:11

Company [19] - 3:2,

3:2, 3:8, 8:25, 9:6,

9:10, 12:2, 12:15,

13:23, 27:3, 76:22,

77:2, 78:18, 82:15,

85:6, 85:11, 128:3,

135:14, 140:23

comparable [2] -

111:25, 112:2

compare [1] - 111:19

compared [6] -

111:6, 113:9, 116:7,

116:16, 117:11, 121:2

comparing [1] -

33:25

comparison [3] -

110:8, 112:24, 114:13

compelling [1] -

55:24

competent [2] -

53:12, 168:22

compilation [1] -

29:10

complements [1] -

152:19

complete [1] - 56:6

completed [4] -

76:18, 91:6, 92:12,

98:3

complex [2] - 68:18,

121:14

compliance [2] -

31:19, 105:10

comply [1] - 15:17

complying [1] -

15:23

component [1] -

153:17

comprehended [1] -

125:12

comprehensive [2] -

124:3

comprise [1] - 135:3

compromise [1] -

63:24

compromising [1] -

64:2

computer[1] - 59:20

computers [1] -

171:8

concentrated [1] -

104:18

concentration [1] -

98:4

conception [1] -

68:17

concern [4] - 65:3,

133:10, 138:20, 139:5

concerned [4] -

64:20, 64:25, 65:23,

170:4

concerns [9] - 55:20,

65:6, 109:9, 130:17,

138:23, 145:23,

146:18, 157:10,

165:13

conclude [2] - 132:6,

134:6

concluded [1] - 94:4

concludes [4] -

86:22, 99:4, 107:18,

127:14

conclusion [3] -

29:4, 68:15, 74:5

concrete [2] -

154:24, 155:16

condition [2] -

124:23, 125:11

conditions [4] - 16:6,

16:13, 23:12, 75:9

conduct [2] - 10:3,

42:6

conducted [5] - 10:9,

30:6, 86:19, 110:19,

135:7

conducting [1] -

108:3

Conference [1] -

69:10

conflict [1] - 62:8

conflicts [1] - 158:7

confusing [3] -

12:22, 39:14, 161:1

conjunction [2] -

101:24, 103:7

consent [5] - 37:15,

41:19, 91:7, 91:13,

110:23

consequences [1] -

139:7

conservation [2] -

165:20, 170:3

conservatism [1] -

40:20

conservative [3] -

28:12, 28:16, 40:17

consider[20] -

43:10, 55:4, 71:1,

77:8, 78:24, 80:5,

102:8, 105:8, 131:7,

143:19, 149:21,

152:2, 156:20, 157:1,

157:19, 160:1, 160:6,

160:7, 164:24

consideration [11] -

27:12, 45:9, 50:3,

50:4, 77:5, 80:12,

81:2, 152:9, 156:18,

168:11, 168:14

considerations [3] -

59:8, 111:16, 139:8

considered [11] -

38:2, 51:24, 60:1,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

6

79:1, 79:13, 79:14,

106:1, 142:19,

150:15, 165:6, 168:3

considering [3] -

55:21, 67:5, 131:24

consistent [2] -

55:14, 145:25

consolidated [1] -

18:2

constituency [1] -

134:22

constitute [1] -

130:23

constitutes [1] -

168:21

construction [3] -

83:4, 91:8, 94:4

consumers [1] -

146:14

contact [1] - 11:1

contain [1] - 42:9

contained [2] - 51:6,

160:24

contains [1] - 23:15

contents [1] - 23:16

contested [1] -

120:18

contesting [1] -

122:1

context [1] - 15:12

continue [7] - 44:21,

58:25, 67:17, 91:1,

120:25, 127:4, 140:5

continued [3] - 79:5,

106:17, 106:19

Continued [7] - 3:1,

5:1, 6:1, 8:1, 8:3, 9:1,

9:3

continues [1] - 24:11

continuing [3] -

25:15, 88:24, 148:6

continuous [1] -

44:17

contract [2] - 40:1,

85:21

contracted [2] -

71:16, 159:1

contractor [3] - 40:1,

79:3, 124:9

contractors [1] -

59:18

contracts [1] - 137:9

contrary [1] - 169:4

contrast [1] - 111:19

contribute [1] -

114:10

contributed [4] -

62:23, 86:3, 90:12,

104:22

contributing [1] -
131:2

contributor[2] -

75:13, 86:10

contributors [1] -

89:16

control [21] - 26:12,

27:12, 42:24, 42:25,

43:14, 44:16, 79:10,

86:16, 86:22, 104:7,

104:8, 104:9, 105:13,

105:24, 106:3, 109:8,

117:1, 125:17, 146:8,

154:19, 156:19

Control [4] - 28:6,

28:10, 28:13, 43:6

controlled [1] -

133:25

controls [14] - 35:15,

35:16, 35:17, 35:19,

35:23, 39:4, 39:7,

55:1, 74:9, 110:23,

111:4, 151:8, 152:4

convenience [1] -

18:1

convergence [1] -

116:1

conversations [1] -

157:21

conversion [2] -

118:23

converted [2] - 94:17

convincing [1] -

161:7

cooking [1] - 170:17

copier [2] - 12:24,

13:2

copies [3] - 13:12,

54:20, 152:20

copy [2] - 11:1,

42:20

core [2] - 23:9, 23:17

Corners [26] - 25:13,

37:5, 37:6, 37:7,

59:11, 62:6, 63:19,

63:23, 70:12, 72:9,

77:23, 78:6, 84:15,

85:13, 85:25, 120:22,

121:7, 133:15,

135:22, 137:13,

142:9, 143:17,

144:11, 146:22,

153:12

corporate [2] -

144:1, 145:4

Corporation [1] - 9:8

corporations [1] -

136:12

correct [9] - 17:22,

29:6, 31:21, 43:19,

47:8, 100:2, 118:20,

140:9, 163:7

corrected [1] -

152:22

corrections [6] -

97:8, 102:2, 102:5,

102:19, 103:11,

103:13

correctly [3] -

113:20, 163:19,

163:21

corresponds [1] -

15:13

cost [87] - 26:12,

27:4, 27:22, 27:25,

28:1, 28:17, 28:18,

28:19, 28:23, 31:3,

31:10, 31:19, 31:22,

38:15, 38:17, 38:25,

40:2, 41:25, 42:3,

42:5, 42:7, 42:9,

42:10, 42:24, 43:5,

43:10, 43:17, 45:23,

45:24, 49:10, 49:17,

56:4, 59:15, 60:23,

67:12, 72:7, 72:12,

73:4, 73:5, 74:8, 78:9,

78:25, 79:11, 79:14,

80:11, 83:20, 86:4,

87:3, 88:8, 89:5,

89:12, 97:1, 98:13,

102:15, 105:1, 105:9,

107:16, 110:9,

114:14, 114:15,

116:4, 116:7, 116:10,

116:12, 116:18,

117:4, 117:5, 119:23,

120:15, 121:12,

121:13, 126:13,

131:25, 149:8, 149:9,

151:11, 151:17,

151:21, 151:24,

152:7, 155:25, 156:1,

156:7, 157:1, 157:11

Cost [4] - 28:6,

28:10, 28:14, 43:6

cost-effective [3] -

60:23, 74:8, 89:12

costing [3] - 28:3,

53:3, 53:8

costly [1] - 67:11

costs [63] - 27:12,

27:13, 28:5, 28:8,

28:9, 28:11, 28:14,

28:16, 38:25, 42:1,

42:11, 43:1, 45:25,

46:8, 49:12, 50:1,

55:8, 58:25, 59:9,

59:14, 66:8, 66:10,

68:23, 72:12, 72:21,

73:3, 79:18, 85:20,

92:7, 98:15, 100:3,

100:7, 107:13,

114:13, 114:21,

114:24, 115:2, 117:8,

117:19, 118:17,

119:1, 138:19,

138:24, 142:20,

146:7, 146:9, 146:13,

146:14, 148:25,

149:13, 149:15,

153:25, 154:2, 154:4,

154:6, 154:9, 154:16,

154:18, 156:4, 157:6,

171:2, 171:6

Council [3] - 3:14,

12:8, 153:4

Counsel [1] - 2:17

counsel [15] - 10:8,

10:14, 11:14, 11:19,

26:4, 29:22, 162:22,

164:14, 165:13,

165:19, 166:15,

167:24, 173:13,

173:16

count [3] - 92:17,

104:12

country [9] - 59:12,

59:23, 60:10, 60:11,

89:8, 89:11, 122:8,

143:2, 143:21

COUNTY [1] - 173:3

County [11] - 85:18,

130:18, 132:20,

133:13, 133:24,

134:23, 134:24,

137:6, 137:15, 139:4

county [1] - 134:5

couple [9] - 31:2,

36:9, 45:2, 47:21,

77:6, 106:25, 110:13,

127:5, 128:19

course [9] - 39:4,

55:16, 77:19, 80:10,

107:2, 108:14, 162:1,

162:7, 166:1

court [1] - 21:19

Court [1] - 10:25

cover [1] - 57:8

cover-up [1] - 57:8

coverage [1] - 16:23

cozy [1] - 157:14

Craig [5] - 120:2,

120:3, 120:5, 121:20,

121:22

CRAWFORD [5] -

4:12, 50:14, 50:20,

50:23, 53:24

Crawford [7] - 12:21,

12:23, 13:3, 50:13,

50:20, 51:2, 57:14

create [1] - 75:8

created [2] - 59:3,

62:22

creating [2] - 62:14,

143:20

creation [1] - 64:24

creator [1] - 67:21

credit [1] - 23:7

criteria [4] - 43:11,

86:24, 88:5, 168:24

critical [2] - 81:1,

83:16

critiques [1] - 161:8

CROSS [2] - 30:21,

99:17

cross [13] - 4:6,

10:17, 15:10, 23:18,

30:5, 156:24, 162:8,

164:17, 166:23,

166:25, 167:12,

167:18, 169:7

Cross [1] - 5:11

cross-examination

[7] - 10:17, 15:10,

30:5, 156:24, 164:17,

166:23, 167:12

cross-examine [2] -

162:8, 166:25

cross-examined [2]

- 167:18, 169:7

cross-references [1]

- 23:18

crossed [1] - 60:17

Cruces [1] - 153:14

culture [1] - 153:16

cumulative [1] -

114:5

curbing [1] - 75:8

curious [2] - 36:16,

39:10

current [12] - 16:13,

63:11, 66:6, 66:12,

73:25, 75:6, 75:21,

88:22, 96:23, 120:19,

120:24, 146:1

curve [3] - 116:8,

116:9, 116:11

customer[2] -

151:12, 151:16

customer's [1] -

98:18

customers [9] - 27:7,

83:21, 83:22, 83:23,

87:4, 98:24, 142:20,

142:23, 144:2

cutoff [1] - 43:17

cutoffs [1] - 45:24

cuts [1] - 51:10

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

7

D

da-da-da-da [1] -

36:15

daily [1] - 68:10

damaging [1] - 53:10

dangerous [3] -

62:7, 66:13, 66:15

data [15] - 28:7, 28:8,

28:13, 34:18, 40:14,

43:8, 44:2, 72:17,

72:18, 108:20,

111:14, 111:15, 160:5

date [1] - 16:13

dated [1] - 160:20

daughter[1] - 60:16

daughters [1] -

60:14

days [10] - 23:25,

24:4, 24:6, 35:11,

40:17, 77:7, 127:5,

154:24, 170:17,

170:18

dazzling [1] - 51:9

DC [2] - 21:15, 146:3

de [1] - 3:23

deadline [4] - 162:5,

162:24, 162:25,

165:21

death [2] - 68:17,

75:15

deaths [1] - 154:22

debate [3] - 37:25,

155:2, 161:6

DEBORAH [1] - 2:7

decades [1] - 70:17

deceased [1] -

150:15

December [2] - 16:8,

21:7

decided [4] - 21:21,

129:9, 133:17, 167:10

decides [3] - 155:11,

155:13, 158:1

decision [12] - 11:7,

21:20, 64:4, 84:9,

137:23, 146:4, 157:2,

157:25, 160:11,

163:11, 167:9, 170:5

decision-making [3]

- 137:23, 146:4,

160:11

decisions [1] - 60:7

deciview [17] -

34:10, 51:17, 111:23,

111:24, 112:1, 112:8,

112:12, 112:25,

113:5, 113:15,

113:24, 114:3, 114:4,
115:18, 116:6

deciviews [4] -

32:23, 51:19, 51:21,

51:22

decrease [2] - 68:24,

72:2

decree [5] - 37:16,

41:19, 91:7, 91:13,

110:23

deems [1] - 166:2

deeper [3] - 65:8,

142:12

deeply [1] - 141:25

Defense [3] - 3:14,

12:8, 153:3

define [1] - 28:17

defined [1] - 165:15

definite [1] - 53:15

definitely [6] - 70:24,

70:25, 71:18, 71:21,

72:23, 169:20

definition [1] -

168:18

degradation [1] -

35:3

degrade [1] - 24:4

degraded [2] - 63:6,

63:9

degree [4] - 19:6,

83:5, 105:17, 168:23

del [2] - 3:16, 34:24

delay [1] - 68:3

deliberate [1] - 13:12

demonstrate [1] -

22:16

demonstrations [1] -

16:24

denoted [1] - 124:22

deny [1] - 142:24

department [1] -

70:22

Department [46] -

2:3, 2:16, 2:18, 11:19,

13:16, 15:1, 17:22,

18:20, 19:22, 19:24,

20:9, 24:15, 25:24,

26:18, 26:20, 26:24,

27:2, 27:15, 28:21,

28:23, 29:5, 30:8,

30:13, 31:6, 32:7,

32:12, 32:14, 38:5,

41:6, 46:17, 49:1,

55:15, 55:21, 56:4,

56:7, 67:3, 73:2,

137:20, 144:21,

145:22, 156:24,

157:9, 157:15, 158:6,

165:12, 167:24

DEPARTMENT [2] -

7:3, 8:3

Department's [12] -

14:9, 15:13, 26:13,

27:18, 55:12, 55:19,

56:2, 76:19, 142:17,

155:3, 156:12, 159:4

dependent [1] -

133:7

deployed [1] - 86:6

depreciable [1] -

98:15

depreciation [2] -

88:25, 91:24

derives [1] - 131:8

descent [1] - 136:23

describe [2] - 65:18,

129:4

described [1] - 26:6

describes [1] - 15:25

description [1] -

103:24

Desert [1] - 60:18

deserve [2] - 56:6,

62:2

deserves [2] - 165:1,

165:8

design [1] - 111:2

designated [1] - 71:8

designed [3] - 84:22,

95:6, 146:17

designs [1] - 90:15

desk [1] - 11:12

despite [2] - 21:9,

69:2

detail [9] - 16:1,

22:20, 22:21, 23:23,

35:22, 53:20, 79:15,

127:6, 160:21

details [1] - 114:20

determination [32] -

17:5, 17:12, 17:16,

26:14, 26:16, 26:20,

27:11, 27:18, 27:23,

38:9, 44:1, 44:19,

45:8, 45:10, 79:23,

80:12, 80:17, 81:3,

116:25, 120:13,

120:23, 122:4, 122:6,

124:14, 137:21,

155:11, 161:21, 166:5

determination's [1] -

122:9

determinations [5] -

26:9, 46:12, 79:9,

119:7, 137:17

determine [2] -

38:25, 106:5

determined [9] -

27:4, 27:15, 38:5,

40:5, 89:14, 118:21,

119:22, 120:16,

155:17

determining [2] -

108:20, 156:19

develop [8] - 57:5,

57:9, 57:25, 68:3,

75:11, 89:9, 110:21,

151:7

developed [8] -

15:17, 16:2, 20:20,

84:10, 93:9, 105:21,

111:2, 111:12

developing [3] -

19:10, 60:4, 108:17

development [4] -

19:8, 20:12, 20:14,

80:8

developments [2] -

60:5, 80:21

develops [1] - 97:2

devil's [1] - 159:21

devoted [1] - 67:8

Diane [5] - 9:8, 79:7,

101:21, 108:12, 121:5

DIANE [3] - 5:13,

81:21, 101:14

Diary [1] - 65:9

dichotomy [1] -

166:17

dictates [2] - 146:2,

146:3

died [1] - 57:22

difference [6] -

51:23, 80:15, 100:8,

115:1, 126:15, 155:22

differences [5] -

26:12, 27:22, 27:24,

79:16, 79:17

different [12] - 18:4,

18:5, 28:2, 39:7,

83:18, 114:14, 119:1,

121:13, 122:3,

126:14, 146:17

differentiate [2] -

35:18, 167:6

difficult [3] - 88:3,

88:7, 162:9

diligently [1] - 22:7

dimensional [1] -

111:14

Dine [1] - 153:3

dioxide [3] - 17:10,

22:5, 22:18

dip [1] - 148:10

DIRECT [21] - 18:13,

48:6, 50:17, 54:9,

56:15, 58:11, 61:11,

64:12, 69:22, 74:21,

82:4, 96:11, 130:6,

132:15, 134:16,

138:6, 141:19,

145:11, 147:7, 150:8,

152:15

direct [21] - 4:13,

4:15, 4:17, 4:19, 4:21,

4:23, 4:25, 5:4, 5:7,

5:10, 5:19, 5:21, 5:23,

6:4, 6:6, 6:10, 6:12,

28:2, 29:14, 62:8,

127:15

Direct [5] - 4:5, 4:11,

5:14, 5:17, 6:8

direction [2] - 80:3,

160:23

directions [1] - 60:25

directly [3] - 11:1,

86:8, 109:8

director[6] - 48:14,

64:22, 69:9, 69:12,

78:17, 96:21

directors [1] - 69:11

dirtiest [1] - 62:7

dirty [4] - 57:7,

57:17, 62:7, 62:13

disagree [1] - 160:17

disapproval [1] -

21:10

disapprove [1] -

36:14

disapproved [1] -

21:11

disbursed [1] - 90:19

discovered [1] -

17:23

discrepancies [1] -

28:1

discrepancy [1] -

73:3

discretion [4] -

27:11, 43:24, 43:25,

164:17

discuss [3] - 23:22,

59:6, 114:16

discussed [3] -

13:16, 16:15, 17:16

discussing [1] - 59:7

discussion [3] -

77:14, 86:13, 161:15

disease [1] - 52:21

diseases [2] - 75:15,

143:17

dismayed [1] - 67:4

dismissing [1] -

157:4

displace [1] - 63:9

display [1] - 51:9

disproportionately

[1] - 143:14

dispute [1] - 163:23

disregard [1] - 56:4

disruption [2] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

8

62:19, 66:10

distinction [3] - 21:4,

163:15, 168:3

District [5] - 130:10,

132:19, 134:23,

138:10, 138:15

Division [2] - 2:12,

29:9

doctors' [2] - 151:18,

151:22

document [2] -

19:11, 108:17

documents [1] -

37:25

dollar [5] - 43:12,

43:14, 88:11, 121:6,

132:2

dollars [8] - 52:5,

52:11, 53:9, 67:24,

73:21, 117:10, 131:1,

137:1

done [30] - 25:12,

31:24, 38:19, 39:1,

39:23, 39:24, 40:3,

44:15, 47:6, 55:10,

60:19, 88:6, 100:3,

106:4, 112:11,

117:10, 122:25,

124:2, 124:6, 131:20,

132:22, 140:9,

140:10, 144:21,

146:4, 157:13, 161:3,

170:8

Donna [2] - 50:13,

69:9

doubt [1] - 59:25

down [7] - 115:10,

120:25, 121:11,

130:14, 133:18,

146:5, 151:14

downstream [1] -

118:9

downturn [2] -

139:3, 146:7

dozen [1] - 47:21

Dr [17] - 159:2,

160:24, 161:6,

161:12, 162:8,

163:17, 164:6,

164:12, 164:20,

165:14, 166:4,

166:24, 167:12,

168:4, 168:24, 169:6,

169:17

draft [12] - 116:1,

117:21, 117:24,

118:3, 118:4, 118:7,

120:2, 120:7, 121:16,

137:18, 138:16,

145:21
dramatic [1] - 65:11

dramatically [1] -

146:10

draw [2] - 116:8,

125:1

Drawer [1] - 2:13

drawing [1] - 90:16

drink [1] - 68:11

Drive [2] - 2:4, 2:19

driver [2] - 130:25,

144:6

drivers [2] - 66:9,

122:17

drives [4] - 64:3,

119:1, 170:15

drop [1] - 95:13

dropped [2] - 21:21,

90:4

droughts [1] - 62:17

drove [1] - 60:16

dry [1] - 65:12

duct [2] - 115:11,

115:12

ductwork [2] -

115:25, 117:16

due [3] - 22:4, 23:7,

24:11

duly [24] - 18:11,

48:4, 50:15, 54:7,

56:13, 58:9, 61:9,

64:10, 69:20, 74:19,

81:22, 82:2, 96:9,

101:15, 130:4,

132:13, 134:14,

138:4, 141:17, 145:9,

147:5, 150:6, 152:13,

173:9

during [7] - 13:6,

13:10, 70:14, 71:22,

73:1, 94:5

E

E-mail [2] - 12:22,

13:5

early [3] - 14:6, 91:9,

94:4

earnings [1] - 91:24

easiest [2] - 115:8,

159:6

east [1] - 142:1

East [1] - 65:22

Eastern [2] - 35:25,

132:19

easy [1] - 72:13

echo [1] - 132:21

economic [27] -

31:24, 45:12, 52:13,

55:6, 78:5, 85:13,

85:25, 100:3, 100:7,

126:17, 126:25,

130:24, 131:12,

132:3, 136:9, 138:22,

139:3, 139:8, 144:6,

146:7, 148:14,

149:15, 151:9,

154:24, 165:16,

170:24, 171:15

economically [4] -

27:16, 27:17, 63:6,

67:16

economics [1] -

78:24

Economy [1] - 153:4

economy [8] - 69:3,

131:2, 137:12, 148:7,

149:20, 153:16,

170:15, 170:22

ecosystems [1] -

68:5

educational [3] -

19:3, 82:25, 103:25

effect [4] - 45:14,

122:22, 134:4, 149:21

effective [14] - 60:23,

68:3, 73:5, 74:8,

79:14, 89:12, 110:15,

116:10, 116:18,

117:4, 119:23,

120:15, 156:1, 156:7

effectiveness [11] -

26:12, 42:24, 49:10,

55:9, 78:25, 79:12,

110:9, 116:12,

126:13, 151:8, 157:12

effects [5] - 52:13,

62:13, 70:16, 77:15,

143:15

efficiency [3] -

26:12, 97:3, 171:12

efficient [1] - 156:4

effort [2] - 12:22,

131:16

EIB [11] - 1:3, 10:3,

21:8, 48:17, 50:23,

52:15, 55:4, 56:1,

56:3, 139:22, 140:1

eight [5] - 13:12,

17:2, 23:5, 53:25,

122:3

either [17] - 37:19,

45:5, 60:1, 89:6,

98:11, 99:1, 109:6,

115:21, 116:15,

116:25, 125:4,

133:25, 151:25,

152:1, 159:5, 162:15,

165:23

elderly [1] - 66:17

elders [1] - 57:22

electric [3] - 48:21,

53:17, 78:4

electrical [3] - 98:1,

133:5, 133:8

electricity [12] - 66:7,

131:9, 131:15,

131:25, 133:20,

146:9, 146:14, 154:4,

170:15, 171:7, 171:8,

171:14

electricityproducing [1] -

171:14

electronically [1] -

69:6

electrostatic [1] -

94:19

element [4] - 17:5,

23:19, 64:3, 81:1

elements [2] - 50:5,

83:13

elevates [1] - 157:10

eligible [1] - 27:8

eliminate [1] -

105:25

eliminated [1] -

111:1

elimination [1] -

91:15

Elizabeth [3] - 141:4,

150:1, 150:10

ELIZABETH [3] -

2:10, 6:9, 150:5

Ellen [1] - 61:6

emanating [1] -

142:9

embarked [1] - 86:2

embarks [2] - 89:8,

89:11

embodied [2] -

78:21, 79:17

embraces [1] - 89:11

Embudo [1] - 57:11

emerge [1] - 89:7

emergency [1] -

67:17

emerging [1] - 60:2

emission [9] - 22:5,

46:2, 66:23, 87:2,

93:5, 111:21, 125:9,

132:23

emissions [19] -

24:2, 25:14, 36:4,

39:15, 44:23, 49:14,

55:18, 62:11, 65:6,

71:20, 72:2, 75:12,

78:10, 86:12, 94:1,

142:5, 151:8, 152:4,

155:19

emitted [2] - 72:15,

154:9

emphasize [1] -

157:4

emphasized [1] -

142:19

emphysema [1] -

75:14

employ [1] - 136:24

employed [12] -

18:18, 18:19, 19:20,

19:21, 82:11, 82:12,

96:20, 98:6, 103:2,

103:4, 173:13, 173:16

employee [1] -

173:15

employees [2] -

85:13, 150:14

employers [7] -

147:21, 147:23,

148:7, 148:24, 149:2,

149:9, 149:20

employment [2] -

101:20, 136:3

employs [3] - 85:5,

85:7, 136:22

enacted [1] - 35:16

enchantment [1] -

144:13

encourage [1] - 13:4

encouraging [1] -

13:3

end [9] - 11:7, 38:24,

68:13, 76:4, 102:6,

107:15, 115:25,

116:3, 124:13

endangerment [1] -

62:21

endeavors [1] -

136:9

ended [2] - 109:2,

111:11

endorse [1] - 144:23

ends [1] - 171:5

energy [28] - 57:6,

57:10, 57:12, 58:2,

58:4, 60:21, 63:2,

63:3, 63:4, 63:13,

67:16, 68:18, 69:3,

75:11, 83:21, 88:20,

89:23, 97:3, 105:11,

143:20, 145:19,

146:7, 146:9, 146:13,

151:21, 171:11,

171:12, 171:13

Energy [2] - 3:9,

153:4

enforced [1] - 21:9

engineer[3] - 59:21,

104:3, 143:9

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

9

engineering [10] -

42:6, 83:4, 83:5, 98:2,

98:7, 104:5, 105:1,

108:11, 110:20,

165:16

engineers [1] - 59:18

enhance [1] - 131:25

enhanced [3] -

31:11, 31:15, 31:25

enhancements [1] -

93:20

enormous [2] -

60:18, 67:12

ensuring [1] - 68:9

enter [1] - 130:16

entered [2] - 10:12,

169:5

entire [1] - 115:9

entirely [1] - 162:11

entirety [1] - 104:7

entities [1] - 159:5

entitled [1] - 163:2

entity [1] - 151:1

Environment [20] -

2:3, 2:16, 2:18, 11:19,

15:1, 18:20, 19:22,

20:9, 26:13, 26:24,

27:14, 27:18, 28:21,

28:22, 73:2, 142:17,

144:21, 156:12,

157:15, 158:5

ENVIRONMENT [2] -

7:3, 8:3

environment [12] -

50:2, 62:15, 75:10,

126:16, 131:17,

131:20, 137:17,

148:6, 149:19, 157:2,

159:15, 170:19

ENVIRONMENTAL

[1] - 1:1

environmental [20] -

49:5, 55:5, 71:9, 78:8,

86:2, 94:9, 95:8,

100:12, 105:12,

108:5, 130:18,

133:18, 136:19,

139:7, 143:15,

146:18, 148:15,

153:1, 159:23, 170:25

Environmental [17] -

1:17, 2:6, 3:16, 12:7,

24:24, 30:25, 49:1,

67:3, 75:3, 137:17,

137:20, 145:22,

145:24, 146:24,

152:25, 158:11, 168:7

environmentalists

[1] - 16:4

EPA [85] - 7:23, 7:25,
8:6, 16:8, 16:14,

21:10, 21:15, 21:19,

22:2, 22:7, 22:16,

23:1, 24:20, 25:1,

36:13, 36:14, 36:19,

37:19, 37:25, 39:15,

39:16, 40:3, 40:4,

41:3, 41:25, 43:4,

46:1, 52:15, 63:15,

63:19, 67:1, 70:10,

72:6, 72:22, 74:8,

75:6, 75:21, 79:16,

80:19, 88:9, 105:6,

105:19, 113:15,

113:19, 119:12,

120:8, 120:22,

120:23, 122:5, 122:7,

122:11, 122:17,

122:18, 123:19,

124:17, 131:24,

144:8, 144:23,

148:20, 149:11,

151:1, 151:12,

154:13, 155:6,

155:10, 155:14,

157:17, 157:18,

157:23, 157:25,

158:7, 158:12,

158:18, 158:22,

159:1, 161:11, 162:8,

164:13, 164:21,

164:22, 166:4, 168:11

EPA's [16] - 21:9,

27:22, 42:7, 55:14,

80:23, 80:25, 142:4,

144:16, 145:1,

155:17, 159:7,

160:19, 161:8, 161:9,

166:8, 168:14

epidemics [1] -

52:21

Episcopal [1] - 69:8

equal [1] - 75:21

equals [1] - 112:25

equipment [2] -

59:23, 93:14

equivalents [2] -

85:6, 85:8

era [1] - 170:17

Erik [5] - 12:6, 30:24,

99:20, 99:22, 141:4

ERIK [3] - 3:15, 6:11,

152:12

eriksg@

westernlaw.org [1] -

3:18

error [1] - 152:21

errors [2] - 17:22,

29:7

especially [2] -

62:15, 169:14

essential [1] -

153:16

essentially [1] -

92:11

established [3] -

108:18, 124:20,

135:20

establishing [1] -

10:12

estimate [8] - 28:19,

28:22, 28:23, 40:18,

42:6, 42:7, 105:1,

146:13

estimated [5] - 28:8,

28:9, 98:16, 151:12,

154:14

estimates [9] -

27:22, 27:25, 28:1,

28:15, 28:17, 31:3,

38:25, 56:5, 151:14

estimating [1] - 59:9

et [2] - 63:22, 151:23

ethical [3] - 65:3,

69:4, 154:25

ethics [1] - 154:20

evaluate [3] - 43:5,

106:3, 159:13

evaluating [1] -

105:8

evaluation [1] -

119:16

eventually [1] - 11:2

everywhere [2] -

67:14, 145:2

evidence [23] - 30:3,

47:8, 80:4, 83:8,

83:11, 97:16, 97:20,

103:22, 159:14,

159:25, 160:12,

160:18, 161:10,

161:22, 161:23,

162:18, 163:6, 163:9,

163:10, 163:11,

164:18, 164:22

evidentiary [3] -

80:3, 103:18, 161:20

evolve [2] - 44:22,

106:17

exact [1] - 121:20

exacting [1] - 67:12

exactly [1] - 39:9

exaggerated [2] -

143:6, 143:11

Examination [8] -

4:5, 4:6, 4:9, 5:7,

5:10, 5:11, 5:14, 6:13

examination [11] -

4:8, 5:8, 5:15, 10:17,

15:10, 18:7, 30:5,

156:24, 164:17,

166:23, 167:12

EXAMINATION [10] -

18:13, 30:21, 32:15,

45:4, 82:4, 87:23,

96:11, 99:17, 110:4,

159:10

examine [2] - 162:8,

166:25

examined [24] -

18:12, 48:5, 50:16,

54:8, 56:14, 58:10,

61:10, 64:11, 69:21,

74:20, 82:3, 96:10,

101:16, 130:5,

132:14, 134:15,

138:5, 141:18,

145:10, 147:6, 150:7,

152:14, 167:18, 169:7

Examiner [3] - 76:25,

87:7, 161:13

example [3] - 56:24,

58:3, 169:1

except [2] - 23:25,

60:21

excess [2] - 41:2,

78:9

exclude [1] - 95:21

excluded [1] -

169:24

exclusive [1] - 85:7

exclusively [1] -

157:3

excuse [6] - 25:25,

46:16, 73:24, 74:2,

127:9, 164:6

executive [4] -

48:13, 64:22, 78:17,

96:21

executives [1] -

68:21

exhibit [2] - 33:8,

164:12

Exhibit [31] - 16:1,

16:16, 17:17, 18:3,

22:22, 22:23, 23:2,

23:17, 26:2, 26:3,

33:12, 36:13, 42:21,

82:17, 83:8, 83:11,

97:6, 97:15, 97:20,

101:25, 102:3,

102:15, 103:9,

103:18, 103:22,

110:12, 125:19,

160:24, 161:1, 161:2

Exhibits [6] - 19:15,

20:25, 29:15, 29:17,

29:21, 30:2

exhibits [2] - 160:6,

164:11

exist [2] - 75:11,

143:4

existence [1] - 61:21

existing [6] - 24:7,

42:2, 42:4, 105:13,

115:11, 117:14

expand [1] - 115:12

expect [2] - 11:5,

35:16

expected [1] - 40:12

expensed [1] - 88:2

expensive [4] -

52:22, 80:13, 148:21

experience [5] -

79:8, 82:25, 97:25,

103:25, 116:24

expert [2] - 159:1,

161:23

expertise [1] - 161:4

expired [1] - 148:12

Expires [2] - 173:20,

173:22

explain [4] - 13:13,

21:3, 26:19, 115:4

explained [2] -

22:20, 22:21

explaining [1] -

12:23

explanation [3] -

55:24, 56:6, 148:10

exploited [1] - 63:6

extend [3] - 16:22,

17:2, 63:1

extends [1] - 35:6

extension [3] -

41:20, 63:16, 89:2

extensive [2] - 16:3,

79:8

extent [2] - 164:15,

165:19

external [1] - 66:10

extra [1] - 54:20

extreme [2] - 62:17,

142:20

eye [1] - 51:19

eyesight [1] - 113:2

F

fabric [1] - 86:7

face [2] - 21:12,

55:20

facilitate [2] - 57:13,

108:10

facilities [4] - 17:7,

83:5, 119:21, 120:10

facility [25] - 57:2,

60:18, 83:16, 85:5,

85:10, 85:15, 85:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

10

85:24, 88:8, 89:10,

94:10, 94:20, 95:2,

110:21, 110:22,

111:18, 112:5, 112:7,

112:16, 112:21,

112:22, 118:25,

120:14, 130:19,

130:23

facility-wide [2] -

111:18, 112:7

fact [10] - 36:22,

51:5, 80:23, 119:8,

128:23, 143:19,

154:22, 157:20,

161:8, 161:22

factor [7] - 25:11,

93:5, 105:13, 157:5,

166:6, 168:12, 168:14

factors [7] - 55:6,

81:2, 105:8, 105:19,

106:6, 157:6, 159:20

failed [1] - 158:15

failure [1] - 21:9

fair [2] - 31:18, 68:3

faith [6] - 64:23,

66:5, 67:8, 67:15,

68:19, 69:7

falls [1] - 168:17

familiar [2] - 26:5,

167:15

families [2] - 135:3,

155:1

fan [5] - 117:25,

118:1, 118:9, 118:11,

118:12

far [16] - 46:6, 62:12,

92:6, 143:17, 154:17,

156:1, 156:3, 156:7,

157:13, 160:19,

161:4, 161:9, 163:6,

170:4, 171:13

far-reaching [1] -

62:12

farm [1] - 136:15

farmer [1] - 135:4

Farmington [19] -

3:11, 11:6, 11:9, 13:2,

13:24, 13:25, 63:14,

63:22, 71:16, 128:7,

128:10, 130:13,

135:18, 137:15,

140:8, 140:22,

140:24, 142:13,

171:25

fast [1] - 46:11

fault [1] - 148:18

FD [1] - 118:11

Fe [13] - 1:19, 2:5,

2:13, 2:20, 3:23, 11:6,

51:20, 74:25, 140:21,
142:11, 142:18,

144:12

feasible [8] - 27:16,

27:17, 44:12, 106:3,

110:25, 111:4,

120:15, 125:18

features [2] - 121:15

February [7] - 17:19,

24:18, 104:24, 107:4,

107:14, 108:9, 109:3

Fed [1] - 7:11

federal [37] - 15:24,

16:4, 17:24, 20:22,

21:13, 24:16, 25:22,

25:25, 26:1, 26:15,

27:8, 27:10, 35:17,

38:21, 41:7, 41:13,

41:15, 49:11, 49:18,

51:14, 77:12, 77:13,

88:9, 114:7, 124:11,

136:19, 138:18,

138:21, 138:24,

146:3, 147:25,

148:20, 151:1, 151:2,

158:13, 159:5

Federal [10] - 36:17,

37:3, 55:14, 155:7,

155:14, 158:8, 159:7,

160:19, 161:11,

168:14

feeding [1] - 126:2

Felicia [2] - 10:2,

50:24

FELICIA [1] - 2:3

fell [3] - 58:21,

106:15, 150:21

felt [1] - 25:14

few [15] - 10:15,

15:8, 30:17, 40:11,

60:16, 77:4, 80:22,

99:15, 99:24, 102:4,

116:22, 119:7, 125:2,

130:16, 131:17

fight [1] - 52:16

figure [3] - 123:17,

137:3, 143:2

Figure [1] - 33:22

figures [3] - 33:22,

34:7, 143:10

Filed [3] - 8:23, 9:4,

9:7

filed [5] - 17:20,

24:18, 82:14, 162:10,

163:18

filing [2] - 92:12,

152:22

filings [2] - 97:1,

161:16

filters [1] - 86:7

final [7] - 37:12,

119:8, 119:12,

121:24, 122:4, 122:9,

156:11

finalized [2] - 21:19,

122:20

finally [4] - 17:18,

80:7, 120:8, 158:2

finance [1] - 98:4

financial [1] - 68:19

financially [1] -

173:16

findings [1] - 158:7

fine [4] - 46:24,

47:12, 47:13, 129:11

finish [1] - 140:11

finished [2] - 110:24,

140:20

FIP [1] - 79:17

Fire [2] - 118:6,

118:14

fired [7] - 44:16,

44:24, 62:14, 62:20,

66:12, 66:21, 66:23

firm [1] - 12:2

first [51] - 13:16,

15:11, 18:11, 22:14,

32:6, 36:11, 47:3,

48:4, 50:15, 54:7,

56:13, 58:9, 58:17,

58:18, 59:6, 61:9,

64:10, 69:20, 74:19,

81:12, 82:2, 86:14,

88:21, 90:21, 90:23,

96:9, 98:16, 98:21,

100:4, 101:15, 102:6,

105:9, 105:23,

107:24, 110:21,

130:4, 132:13,

134:14, 138:4,

141:17, 145:9, 147:5,

150:4, 150:6, 152:13,

153:7, 156:16, 164:4,

164:8, 164:10

Fischer [15] - 9:8,

79:7, 101:10, 101:18,

101:21, 101:23,

102:18, 103:7,

103:12, 103:24,

109:3, 110:2, 114:19,

121:16, 127:11

FISCHER [25] - 5:13,

81:22, 101:14,

101:21, 102:1, 102:4,

102:21, 104:1,

104:19, 114:21,

115:6, 115:22,

116:20, 117:2, 119:3,

119:11, 119:20,

120:2, 120:12,

120:21, 121:10,

121:19, 122:13,

123:12, 125:22

Fish [4] - 8:17,

24:21, 25:4, 158:25

fit [2] - 14:16, 115:11

fits [2] - 118:25,

151:2

five [19] - 34:25,

37:15, 47:20, 84:5,

89:19, 91:19, 92:2,

92:3, 95:2, 105:8,

105:19, 105:22,

120:24, 122:2, 129:9,

133:19, 140:12,

140:16, 141:15

five-step [1] - 105:22

five-year [1] - 89:19

fixated [1] - 157:3

fixates [1] - 156:16

fixed [1] - 49:22

flawed [1] - 157:23

flip [1] - 18:4

floods [1] - 62:18

flow [1] - 60:9

flu [2] - 91:15, 91:17

flue [5] - 93:21,

94:18, 117:22,

117:25, 118:2

focal [1] - 31:19

focus [4] - 77:10,

86:16, 104:25, 107:5

focused [2] - 52:25,

107:22

focuses [1] - 125:19

focusing [1] - 108:12

folks [5] - 47:21,

60:6, 60:7, 75:25,

76:16

follow [7] - 38:18,

38:24, 45:1, 95:17,

95:18, 100:24, 123:21

follow-up [7] - 38:18,

38:24, 45:1, 95:17,

95:18, 100:24, 123:21

followed [2] - 105:6,

105:22

following [1] - 109:4

follows [23] - 18:12,

36:11, 48:5, 50:16,

54:8, 56:14, 58:10,

61:10, 64:11, 69:21,

74:20, 82:3, 96:10,

101:16, 130:5,

132:14, 134:15,

138:5, 141:18,

145:10, 147:6, 150:7,

152:14

food [4] - 62:19,

67:16, 143:4

foolish [1] - 59:10

FOR [1] - 1:5

forced [2] - 117:21,

118:4

forecasts [1] - 96:24

foregoing [2] -

173:7, 173:8

Forerunners [2] -

150:13, 150:23

Forest [2] - 24:20,

25:1

form [2] - 13:18,

129:11

formatting [1] - 29:8

former [1] - 150:14

formulas [1] - 51:7

forth [8] - 110:9,

111:16, 112:21,

131:12, 155:14,

157:9, 158:10, 159:25

forthcoming [1] -

12:22

Forum [1] - 20:19

forward [7] - 13:8,

20:21, 79:25, 92:16,

92:19, 92:20, 171:11

Four [26] - 25:13,

37:5, 37:6, 37:7,

59:11, 62:6, 63:19,

63:23, 70:12, 72:9,

77:23, 78:5, 84:14,

84:15, 85:13, 85:25,

120:22, 121:7,

133:15, 135:22,

137:13, 142:9,

143:17, 144:10,

146:22, 153:11

four [16] - 23:16,

25:11, 27:1, 34:8,

37:15, 47:3, 60:20,

84:1, 108:15, 111:17,

114:22, 120:21,

139:24, 143:3,

152:24, 156:14

four-factor [1] -

25:11

four-year [1] -

108:15

fourth [3] - 53:4,

105:15, 106:5

frame [2] - 89:1,

90:25

frames [1] - 114:10

Francis [2] - 2:4,

2:19

Franciscan [1] -

64:22

frankly [4] - 157:2,

158:15, 158:19, 161:4

free [2] - 145:17,

170:18

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

11

fresh [1] - 68:10

Friday [3] - 11:9,

129:8, 152:19

friendly [1] - 131:17

friends [2] - 71:16,

136:6

front [9] - 128:2,

147:21, 159:14,

160:2, 160:8, 160:13,

163:10, 167:13,

168:11

frustration [1] -

126:15

fuel [7] - 38:1, 62:7,

96:24, 123:13,

123:14, 123:17,

130:23

FULFER [16] - 2:7,

41:25, 44:8, 91:4,

91:10, 91:18, 92:6,

92:14, 92:25, 93:3,

93:15, 93:23, 123:9,

170:10, 170:13,

171:17

Fulfer[2] - 44:14,

170:12

full [21] - 48:8, 50:19,

54:11, 54:25, 56:17,

58:13, 61:13, 64:14,

69:24, 74:23, 85:6,

85:8, 116:4, 132:17,

134:18, 136:22,

138:8, 141:21,

143:23, 145:13, 147:9

full-time [3] - 85:6,

85:8, 136:22

fully [1] - 131:8

function [1] - 123:13

fundamentally [2] -

156:9, 157:8

funds [1] - 68:23

furthers [2] - 87:1,

88:12

future [16] - 35:19,

39:4, 58:4, 62:3, 63:3,

63:24, 66:24, 67:22,

69:3, 88:14, 89:6,

89:13, 89:21, 90:2,

123:1, 125:1

G

G-E-N-T-R-Y [1] -

138:10

gain [1] - 136:2

gained [1] - 111:7

gallant [1] - 131:16

gap [1] - 115:5

gas [16] - 25:13,
48:20, 84:21, 85:1,

91:16, 91:17, 93:22,

94:18, 117:22, 118:1,

118:2, 135:23,

143:21, 144:5, 167:14

general [11] - 11:19,

46:4, 86:1, 110:16,

118:19, 126:10,

137:15, 145:24,

165:17, 168:20,

169:15

General [3] - 2:11,

2:12, 2:17

General's [2] -

157:21, 157:22

generally [2] - 46:11,

107:1

generate [2] - 60:20,

131:15

generated [3] -

62:12, 136:1, 137:13

generating [4] -

77:22, 83:16, 85:10,

131:9

Generating [38] -

17:15, 26:10, 27:1,

27:20, 28:20, 35:19,

38:1, 52:1, 52:17,

59:11, 67:6, 70:12,

71:2, 72:2, 72:8,

72:25, 74:9, 77:21,

77:23, 84:14, 84:17,

98:12, 119:9, 123:25,

130:11, 130:20,

130:22, 131:10,

131:16, 131:19,

132:24, 133:14,

134:4, 136:22, 142:6,

142:7, 154:10, 155:19

generation [3] -

57:6, 78:2, 82:13

generations [1] -

70:19

GENTRY [4] - 5:22,

138:3, 138:9, 138:12

Gentry [2] - 138:9,

138:14

geographic [1] -

147:20

Gerard [5] - 9:4,

78:16, 92:9, 96:7,

96:18

GERARD [3] - 5:9,

81:21, 96:8

Gessing [4] - 141:3,

145:7, 145:14, 147:2

GESSING [5] - 6:5,

145:8, 145:14, 145:16

given [9] - 63:18,

67:21, 165:1, 166:2,

166:25, 167:8,

167:18, 169:4, 173:12

glaciers [1] - 68:6

glide [3] - 124:21,

124:22, 125:1

global [4] - 52:21,

65:14, 65:17, 75:8

goal [6] - 25:7, 81:9,

87:1, 88:13, 88:16,

88:18

goals [5] - 23:11,

23:13, 43:11, 67:11,

81:10

God [2] - 62:2, 62:22

GOODRICH [25] -

3:15, 6:11, 12:6,

29:24, 30:17, 30:22,

30:23, 31:9, 31:14,

31:18, 31:23, 32:3,

87:17, 99:15, 99:18,

109:24, 129:6,

152:12, 152:16,

160:16, 164:9, 168:1,

170:8, 171:1, 171:21

Goodrich [24] - 4:7,

5:12, 12:5, 12:7,

30:16, 30:24, 32:4,

87:16, 99:14, 99:22,

100:18, 109:23,

127:20, 128:12,

129:4, 141:5, 152:11,

159:9, 161:15, 163:1,

164:8, 169:23, 170:1,

170:7

goodrich [1] -

163:20

governed [2] - 111:9,

120:22

governing [3] -

21:16, 23:16, 166:7

government [9] -

55:2, 68:21, 133:24,

136:5, 136:20, 137:2,

151:1, 151:2, 151:23

governments [1] -

137:5

governs [1] - 169:14

graduate [1] - 104:4

graduating [1] -

60:17

Grand [3] - 15:21,

16:20, 20:17

grandchildren [2] -

69:4, 71:13

Grande [1] - 153:5

grandkids [1] - 58:24

grandparents [1] -

71:12

GRANTHAM [39] -

2:17, 11:16, 14:21,

18:14, 18:15, 18:18,

18:21, 18:25, 19:3,

19:7, 19:12, 19:17,

19:20, 19:23, 20:2,

20:6, 20:11, 20:23,

21:2, 24:15, 25:23,

26:8, 26:19, 27:21,

28:24, 29:12, 37:5,

41:22, 45:2, 45:5,

45:12, 45:16, 45:18,

45:22, 46:13, 87:11,

99:9, 109:18, 165:11

Grantham [14] - 4:5,

4:9, 11:15, 11:18,

14:1, 14:2, 14:20,

14:25, 45:1, 87:10,

99:8, 109:17, 165:9,

166:10

graph [1] - 34:12

graphs [1] - 51:7

grave [1] - 65:6

great [4] - 30:20,

68:19, 116:7, 129:17

greater [2] - 104:16,

143:18

greatly [2] - 131:2,

131:25

greed [1] - 64:3

green [1] - 34:23

greenhouse [1] -

167:14

GREGORY [1] - 2:7

grid [1] - 57:12

grossly [1] - 143:6

ground [3] - 71:19,

158:6, 164:22

grounds [1] - 161:25

group [6] - 19:10,

91:23, 96:24, 96:25,

97:2, 150:13

groups [5] - 153:1,

159:23, 165:20,

170:3, 171:10

growing [2] - 40:8,

71:15

grown [1] - 142:1

growth [5] - 24:2,

39:15, 40:6, 40:11,

40:18

Guardians [5] - 3:14,

12:9, 31:1, 99:23,

153:6

guess [10] - 38:11,

44:11, 73:14, 88:21,

92:19, 94:2, 94:8,

127:3, 160:15, 163:22

guidance [2] - 43:4,

108:18

guideline [1] - 105:7

Guidelines [1] - 7:10

guidelines [12] -

28:4, 28:5, 28:8, 45:7,

105:6, 105:20, 109:1,

111:10, 111:25,

116:8, 123:19, 166:7

guiding [1] - 27:10

guy [1] - 127:20

H

habitat [1] - 68:12

half [4] - 84:1, 84:2,

131:8, 131:9

hand [7] - 28:9, 54:5,

98:20, 104:16,

127:18, 130:2, 150:4

handle [3] - 25:15,

116:2, 118:11

hands [4] - 13:11,

116:9, 141:8, 146:16

happy [3] - 83:15,

95:3, 109:12

hard [5] - 46:10,

129:18, 139:2, 146:6,

148:1

harmful [1] - 75:5

Harold [1] - 2:4

harsh [1] - 75:13

Hayhoe [1] - 65:21

Haze [9] - 7:6, 7:8,

8:15, 8:19, 15:14,

15:19, 20:22, 23:15,

77:13

haze [37] - 10:6,

15:24, 17:5, 19:8,

20:12, 20:14, 20:21,

21:8, 37:4, 48:17,

49:11, 51:14, 51:19,

51:21, 55:23, 56:2,

62:12, 65:4, 66:24,

70:11, 70:16, 71:2,

71:5, 71:12, 71:18,

77:9, 86:4, 86:8,

126:16, 139:22,

142:11, 143:23,

149:7, 153:22, 154:9,

154:14, 154:16

HAZE [1] - 1:5

head [7] - 15:4, 31:8,

41:23, 51:8, 53:23,

115:19, 142:13

health [29] - 31:15,

31:25, 45:13, 55:5,

59:8, 62:13, 62:15,

66:13, 66:24, 67:14,

67:22, 71:20, 73:20,

75:9, 75:14, 77:15,

100:8, 143:25, 151:9,

153:18, 153:21,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

12

156:21, 157:1,

157:12, 159:17,

170:14, 171:6, 171:15

Health [1] - 19:25

health-related [1] -

77:15

healthy [3] - 62:3,

69:3, 136:1

hear [21] - 10:5,

13:21, 13:22, 13:24,

14:5, 14:8, 14:14,

14:15, 39:20, 52:18,

52:20, 57:15, 59:8,

59:14, 79:7, 86:20,

89:22, 122:8, 128:14,

140:22

heard [8] - 59:1,

60:2, 80:10, 81:5,

103:11, 140:21,

148:2, 170:3

hearing [24] - 1:17,

10:3, 10:9, 10:24,

11:5, 13:6, 13:10,

29:4, 46:18, 51:13,

52:19, 63:14, 64:19,

83:10, 97:18, 103:21,

107:5, 113:20, 135:7,

135:10, 142:18,

168:25, 169:6, 169:13

Hearing [25] - 2:2,

10:2, 10:14, 11:16,

11:24, 12:13, 14:12,

14:21, 15:2, 29:13,

32:8, 45:2, 76:24,

87:6, 97:14, 128:15,

129:15, 161:13,

163:12, 165:12,

166:14, 167:22,

168:1, 169:11, 171:22

hearings [4] - 70:15,

71:22, 166:19, 169:19

heart [1] - 163:22

heating [1] - 170:17

heavily [2] - 70:10,

70:24

heavy [1] - 145:1

helium [1] - 135:23

hello [1] - 70:3

help [4] - 15:12,

66:19, 85:22, 108:10

helping [1] - 131:21

helps [1] - 148:5

hereby [1] - 173:7

hereto [1] - 173:16

hiding [1] - 166:13

high [7] - 38:17,

40:2, 104:17, 124:25,

148:9, 168:22, 169:18

higher [8] - 55:2,

117:19, 118:18,
121:3, 121:7, 151:21,

152:5, 152:7

highest [3] - 64:2,

64:4, 144:6

highlight [3] - 80:7,

106:11, 107:2

hired [1] - 79:4

historical [1] - 44:2

history [3] - 94:13,

106:12, 142:8

hit [5] - 104:17,

115:17, 133:21,

139:2, 146:6

hold [4] - 64:4, 73:4,

90:3, 137:8

holding [1] - 83:3

Holly [1] - 69:11

home [3] - 68:7,

153:12, 171:8

hop [1] - 144:11

hope [4] - 50:4,

54:22, 68:15, 77:5

hopefully [1] - 89:20

hoping [1] - 75:17

hordes [1] - 47:18

hour [1] - 1:20

hours [1] - 150:22

House [3] - 134:20,

138:10, 138:14

house [1] - 57:11

household [1] -

138:21

huge [3] - 66:8,

126:17, 143:16

hum [2] - 113:16,

116:20

human [6] - 51:18,

55:5, 59:7, 66:13,

113:2, 113:17

humans [1] - 59:5

Humboldt [1] - 19:6

hundred [3] - 51:20,

85:21, 117:10

hundreds [1] - 51:5

hurt [1] - 148:6

husband [2] -

150:15, 150:20

hybrid [3] - 115:7,

116:11, 116:16

I

iconic [2] - 153:10,

153:15

identical [1] - 140:2

identified [2] - 16:11,

21:4

identify [1] - 105:23

ignore [1] - 164:22

imagine [1] - 130:17

impact [27] - 36:1,

42:23, 50:6, 73:24,

80:11, 87:3, 89:5,

92:10, 98:10, 98:11,

98:16, 98:21, 98:23,

99:24, 100:5, 100:15,

126:17, 136:19,

138:21, 146:11,

148:14, 148:15,

149:13, 149:15,

151:9, 151:10, 170:24

impacted [2] - 66:15,

147:24

impacts [32] - 31:7,

31:20, 31:24, 55:5,

68:4, 70:20, 70:21,

71:20, 73:20, 73:21,

78:19, 86:8, 100:1,

100:8, 100:12,

105:12, 106:5, 106:9,

112:11, 112:20,

118:7, 124:4, 146:20,

154:11, 154:12,

154:25, 156:17,

157:3, 157:5, 157:11,

170:25

impairment [1] -

22:19

imperative [1] - 69:5

implement [4] -

21:22, 60:7, 68:3,

115:24

IMPLEMENTATION

[1] - 1:4

implementation [8] -

21:12, 44:12, 54:25,

67:1, 80:5, 124:11,

148:18, 168:17

Implementation [26]

- 8:14, 8:20, 10:5,

15:17, 37:3, 48:25,

55:15, 137:19,

138:17, 139:10,

139:23, 145:21,

149:4, 149:11,

149:17, 155:7,

155:12, 155:13,

155:15, 158:5, 158:8,

158:17, 159:7,

164:23, 168:5, 168:15

implementations [1]

- 114:7

implemented [4] -

53:15, 60:6, 122:12,

125:5

implementing [2] -

67:11, 154:18

implements [1] -

15:20

implications [1] -

65:25

importance [3] -

78:4, 78:5, 167:7

important [11] -

48:23, 77:9, 84:7,

85:14, 130:19, 133:4,

144:4, 144:19,

149:23, 156:18, 168:3

importantly [2] -

148:4, 151:15

impose [1] - 158:13

impression [1] -

168:23

impressive [1] - 51:7

improper [1] -

162:11

improperly [1] -

163:18

improve [6] - 24:3,

49:6, 49:13, 110:17,

126:16, 132:23

IMPROVEMENT [1] -

1:1

improvement [20] -

34:6, 34:10, 35:11,

40:17, 45:14, 53:1,

53:5, 93:16, 93:25,

94:2, 105:18, 111:7,

112:2, 112:6, 112:8,

113:13, 113:14,

116:6, 116:15, 124:18

Improvement [6] -

1:18, 2:6, 75:4,

137:18, 145:25,

146:24

improvements [13] -

23:7, 35:3, 35:7,

59:16, 60:3, 94:9,

94:11, 110:7, 112:22,

114:11, 125:16,

125:20, 159:15

improving [12] -

23:24, 24:6, 32:20,

33:1, 33:3, 34:4,

44:15, 44:23, 45:13,

124:15, 124:19,

170:25

IN [1] - 1:4

in-between [1] -

116:17

inaction [1] - 62:25

inadequate [1] -

142:16

include [9] - 23:12,

25:22, 26:8, 36:2,

42:1, 53:12, 69:8,

165:17, 166:3

included [7] - 16:19,

23:2, 42:12, 43:2,

55:1, 55:13, 164:6

includes [4] - 22:22,

23:4, 35:23, 42:23

including [11] - 16:4,

20:14, 36:3, 53:13,

55:6, 68:5, 79:10,

121:16, 124:8, 124:9,

159:17

income [5] - 49:22,

49:24, 142:23,

142:25, 143:1

increase [10] - 27:6,

55:17, 74:3, 98:18,

99:1, 131:25, 143:7,

146:13, 148:25, 171:3

increased [7] -

100:8, 151:21,

151:24, 153:22,

154:3, 171:6

increases [1] - 27:4

increasing [1] -

52:22

independent [1] -

25:17

independently [1] -

112:18

Indians [3] - 57:20,

57:21, 57:22

indicated [6] - 15:2,

22:2, 31:4, 47:5,

47:10, 124:6

indicator[1] - 65:5

indicators [1] - 135:7

indigenous [1] -

62:23

indirect [3] - 153:19,

153:21, 156:21

individual [7] -

22:11, 111:18,

112:13, 112:15,

112:17, 112:19,

145:20

industrial [1] - 134:3

industry [8] - 16:4,

55:2, 56:5, 116:23,

117:19, 118:19,

118:21, 144:5

Industry [2] - 147:16,

147:23

ineffective [1] -

53:11

infants [1] - 67:22

infeasible [4] -

102:8, 106:1, 111:1

influence [1] - 158:4

information [8] -

7:12, 25:24, 32:22,

32:25, 33:6, 39:3,

123:5, 136:21

informational [1] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

13

107:1

ingenuity [1] - 68:20

inhabitants [1] - 68:9

initial [5] - 80:16,

92:13, 120:13, 121:7,

152:16

initiative [2] -

146:19, 146:23

initiatives [1] - 49:4

injection [1] - 93:8

input [2] - 14:12,

16:4

insane [1] - 53:11

inside [1] - 117:14

install [6] - 74:9,

91:13, 92:1, 92:3,

121:12, 121:13

installation [3] -

27:5, 28:19, 39:1

installed [5] - 72:1,

94:19, 95:5, 95:7,

105:14

installing [1] - 98:11

instance [2] - 34:22,

161:8

instant [1] - 111:21

instead [6] - 72:18,

74:7, 102:12, 115:9,

117:22, 157:2

integrated [1] -

89:15

integrity [1] - 68:20

intend [1] - 10:18

intending [1] - 12:20

intensified [1] -

153:22

intent [10] - 19:14,

20:24, 22:24, 23:3,

29:16, 29:17, 128:1,

165:4, 165:22, 166:22

intention [1] - 129:5

interest [9] - 55:6,

55:22, 55:25, 56:8,

84:1, 84:14, 145:18,

156:10, 156:14

interested [4] - 51:3,

54:21, 126:12, 173:17

interesting [5] -

65:11, 66:18, 83:24,

84:6, 172:4

interests [3] - 55:7,

158:20, 159:17

Interfaith [5] - 64:23,

66:6, 66:19, 69:10,

69:12

interim [1] - 128:20

intermediate [1] -

115:17

intermittence [1] -

85:4
intermittency [1] -

84:23

intermittent [2] -

83:19, 89:24

internal [1] - 49:21

internalize [2] -

153:25, 154:8

internalized [1] -

154:6

international [1] -

66:4

introduce [2] -

11:20, 129:24

invalidated [1] -

21:16

invested [2] - 86:23,

93:10

investing [1] -

154:18

investment [11] -

78:11, 88:11, 88:18,

91:10, 91:20, 91:21,

92:3, 92:4, 92:13,

92:16, 92:18

investments [4] -

52:25, 68:19, 84:8,

132:22

invite [5] - 11:11,

14:9, 50:10, 76:4,

162:21

involved [5] - 59:9,

60:4, 70:10, 104:11,

126:11

involving [1] -

145:24

Iowa [1] - 104:4

iPods [1] - 171:8

issue [17] - 16:10,

59:2, 62:6, 65:4,

65:24, 66:3, 66:4,

70:6, 77:22, 79:19,

143:5, 143:24,

143:25, 145:18,

148:1, 149:6, 149:7

issues [7] - 20:16,

22:4, 90:12, 130:18,

131:7, 151:9, 155:3

IT [1] - 1:16

item [2] - 51:24, 92:2

itself [4] - 108:19,

114:3, 136:5, 137:1

J

jacks [1] - 117:18

James [3] - 50:13,

50:20, 51:2

JAMES [4] - 2:8,

4:12, 50:14, 50:20

January [1] - 160:20

Japan [1] - 90:11

JEFFREY [1] - 2:9

Jersey [1] - 151:4

jet [1] - 86:7

JOAN [3] - 4:22,

64:9, 64:15

Joan [3] - 64:8,

64:15, 64:21

job [6] - 63:8, 73:15,

131:20, 142:16,

152:7, 158:19

jobs [15] - 59:15,

59:23, 60:1, 60:11,

73:6, 73:10, 73:17,

130:24, 133:7,

133:12, 133:21,

133:22, 135:20,

144:18, 148:13

JOHN [1] - 2:8

join [3] - 101:10,

159:4, 166:14

joined [1] - 32:5

Journal [1] - 65:9

Juan [102] - 3:8,

3:14, 12:9, 12:15,

13:23, 17:14, 24:22,

26:10, 27:1, 27:20,

28:20, 30:25, 35:19,

38:1, 48:18, 52:1,

52:2, 52:10, 52:16,

52:20, 52:23, 63:20,

67:5, 69:18, 69:25,

70:8, 70:12, 70:18,

71:2, 72:2, 72:7,

72:25, 74:9, 75:5,

75:12, 77:21, 78:4,

78:9, 78:12, 78:15,

79:17, 79:24, 83:16,

84:13, 84:16, 84:17,

84:18, 85:2, 85:5,

85:6, 85:8, 85:9,

85:11, 85:14, 85:18,

89:10, 98:12, 99:22,

102:16, 118:18,

121:9, 121:12,

121:13, 121:15,

122:25, 123:16,

123:24, 125:18,

125:24, 128:3,

130:11, 130:18,

130:20, 130:22,

131:10, 131:15,

131:19, 132:20,

132:24, 133:13,

133:14, 133:23,

133:24, 134:4,

134:23, 134:24,

136:15, 136:21,

136:24, 137:6, 137:7,

137:15, 139:3,

140:23, 142:6, 149:7,

154:10, 155:19

JUAN [3] - 4:24,

69:19, 69:25

Juan's [2] - 123:1

Juans [2] - 58:21,

153:6

judge [1] - 41:20

Judith [1] - 54:2

JUDY [3] - 4:14,

54:6, 54:12

Judy [1] - 54:12

jump [1] - 144:12

juncture [1] - 162:12

June [6] - 1:16,

26:21, 26:23, 109:4,

109:5

jurisdictional [1] -

90:7

Justice [1] - 69:13

justice [3] - 62:9,

68:11, 69:5

justification [1] -

67:10

justifications [1] -

52:21

K

Katherine [1] - 65:21

Kathy [1] - 10:25

keep [12] - 47:20,

48:23, 50:5, 56:22,

60:25, 61:1, 126:20,

127:3, 133:2, 137:22,

141:14, 144:13

kilowatt [2] - 117:11,

117:12

kind [30] - 35:21,

36:11, 39:10, 39:20,

40:4, 40:11, 45:11,

53:19, 84:5, 84:7,

84:22, 91:22, 91:25,

104:16, 105:4,

106:12, 115:8,

115:14, 115:17,

116:10, 116:24,

117:11, 121:6, 131:3,

133:25, 137:3, 152:6,

156:19, 167:4, 170:18

kinds [3] - 59:18,

59:22, 60:5

Kirtland [2] - 135:18,

150:21

knees [1] - 52:23

knowing [1] - 150:19

known [1] - 16:21

knows [2] - 131:14,

168:13

Kyle [3] - 9:8, 79:7,

103:1

KYLE [3] - 5:13,

81:22, 101:14

L

L-A-W [1] - 56:18

lacking [1] - 72:10

land [9] - 16:5,

17:24, 25:25, 26:1,

26:15, 63:5, 133:25,

142:2, 144:13

lands [1] - 63:10

landscape [1] -

70:24

landscapes [2] -

153:11, 153:15

large [8] - 19:11,

60:21, 92:3, 115:5,

122:2, 130:19,

143:22, 147:19

last [19] - 10:14,

13:16, 26:2, 30:5,

34:7, 34:8, 34:25,

40:11, 57:13, 58:1,

104:9, 105:17, 106:8,

141:1, 144:22,

148:10, 158:14,

167:13, 169:19

late [2] - 40:4, 91:8

Latir [1] - 153:14

latitude [1] - 95:11

law [3] - 12:2, 55:4,

58:6

Law [10] - 3:4, 3:16,

3:22, 12:7, 24:24,

29:8, 30:25, 56:11,

56:18, 152:25

LAW [3] - 4:16,

56:12, 56:18

laws [1] - 166:7

lawyers [1] - 164:7

lead [2] - 19:9, 60:11

leaders [3] - 67:8,

68:21, 69:7

leadership [1] -

68:20

League [6] - 54:15,

54:23, 55:11, 55:19,

55:25, 56:3

learned [1] - 169:16

least [8] - 10:17,

53:10, 62:23, 75:6,

116:10, 121:20,

156:22, 157:19

leave [1] - 75:16

leaves [1] - 128:11

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

14

left [4] - 102:7,

102:9, 139:19, 139:20

Legal [1] - 3:9

legal [2] - 162:13,

165:17

legislative [1] -

66:21

legislator[1] - 131:6

legislators [5] -

128:19, 129:18,

138:2, 139:13, 139:14

lenient [1] - 161:9

less [13] - 43:13,

49:24, 51:22, 53:4,

93:14, 98:17, 114:3,

129:9, 154:17, 156:2,

156:3, 165:2, 165:23

lesser [1] - 164:18

letter [7] - 8:8, 54:19,

69:7, 73:1, 152:18,

152:19, 164:11

level [12] - 64:2,

64:3, 64:4, 65:8,

71:19, 133:3, 136:8,

152:5, 158:6, 164:16,

168:13, 169:18

levels [4] - 22:15,

123:10, 123:12,

123:16

License [1] - 173:20

licensing [1] - 108:7

life [13] - 62:10,

62:21, 63:1, 63:4,

67:14, 68:16, 68:17,

88:22, 92:2, 98:15,

105:15, 146:20,

170:16

lifestyle [1] - 136:12

lifted [1] - 170:16

Light [4] - 64:23,

66:6, 66:20, 69:11

likelihood [1] -

122:11

likely [6] - 28:11,

28:14, 40:6, 65:13,

89:2, 93:14

limestone [1] - 85:20

limit [9] - 80:20,

80:24, 80:25, 81:8,

81:9, 93:18, 95:8,

107:9

limits [3] - 46:3,

46:6, 46:8

line [16] - 34:12,

34:23, 43:20, 44:5,

94:24, 102:6, 102:10,

102:14, 116:10,

116:12, 116:13,

123:18, 125:1, 125:4,

125:6
lines [1] - 34:20

links [1] - 71:19

Lisa [2] - 56:11,

56:18

LISA [3] - 4:16,

56:12, 56:18

list [2] - 123:15,

153:2

listening [1] - 75:1

lists [1] - 106:13

litigate [1] - 157:22

litigation [1] - 36:25

live [13] - 68:6,

130:13, 131:18,

133:1, 134:25,

135:17, 136:11,

136:14, 141:25,

143:4, 166:22

lived [3] - 56:20,

70:17, 135:1

lives [1] - 57:21

living [2] - 61:23,

146:21

load [8] - 83:17,

83:18, 84:19, 89:9,

89:10, 90:6, 90:7,

90:9

loads [1] - 99:3

local [3] - 130:25,

131:2, 143:19

localized [1] - 66:3

locally [1] - 146:5

located [2] - 130:21,

138:15

logical [1] - 51:11

long-term [9] -

23:12, 24:7, 25:20,

25:21, 66:24, 88:17,

88:19, 141:24, 145:3

look [37] - 13:7, 34:8,

34:21, 34:22, 44:4,

63:25, 71:1, 73:8,

84:8, 88:8, 88:11,

88:17, 91:23, 92:8,

92:9, 92:14, 100:1,

105:20, 107:11,

112:16, 112:21,

112:22, 114:6, 123:2,

131:5, 132:1, 135:10,

144:3, 148:14, 149:5,

149:11, 149:18,

160:12, 160:19, 166:6

looked [13] - 24:1,

25:10, 38:10, 44:9,

46:7, 46:12, 100:4,

109:7, 111:4, 111:6,

111:8, 112:19, 116:17

looking [20] - 25:18,

34:3, 37:24, 42:14,

46:1, 56:24, 73:7,

73:13, 90:10, 90:20,

90:22, 110:12, 113:3,

123:11, 123:17,

125:7, 125:15,

125:17, 135:6, 170:21

looks [4] - 62:3,

89:15, 124:3, 169:17

Los [4] - 51:2, 56:21,

56:25, 57:5

lose [3] - 118:11,

169:22, 169:25

lost [1] - 154:23

loud [1] - 61:20

LOUIS [1] - 3:21

love [5] - 54:22,

58:21, 141:25,

150:22, 171:8

low [9] - 83:20,

93:25, 95:4, 95:7,

117:9, 118:22,

119:25, 142:23,

142:25

low-income [2] -

142:23, 142:25

lower [6] - 49:14,

72:23, 132:23, 149:8,

149:9, 152:7

lrose@montand.

com [1] - 3:24

Lucas [15] - 9:9,

79:8, 101:10, 101:24,

102:22, 103:1, 103:3,

103:6, 104:21, 105:2,

106:19, 107:20,

110:2, 123:23, 127:12

LUCAS [29] - 5:13,

81:22, 101:14,

102:25, 103:4,

103:10, 103:16,

107:23, 110:19,

113:1, 113:6, 113:11,

113:17, 113:24,

114:2, 114:18,

115:21, 119:10,

120:10, 120:13,

121:5, 121:11, 122:2,

122:14, 122:24,

123:7, 124:5, 124:20,

125:14

Lunas [1] - 51:2

lunch [1] - 139:16

lung [1] - 143:17

lung-related [1] -

143:17

M

M-A-D-D-E-N [1] -

58:15

M-C-capital-C-A-LL-A-N [1] - 141:23

M-C-capital-C-L-UR-E [1] - 147:11

machine [1] - 173:10

madam [1] - 166:14

Madam [27] - 11:16,

11:24, 12:13, 14:21,

14:23, 29:13, 32:8,

45:2, 50:23, 54:3,

76:24, 76:25, 87:6,

97:14, 128:15,

129:15, 138:12,

147:14, 160:17,

161:13, 163:12,

165:12, 167:22,

168:1, 169:11,

171:21, 171:22

Madden [3] - 58:7,

58:14, 61:5

MADDEN [4] - 4:18,

58:8, 58:14, 58:17

Magdalenas [1] -

58:20

magnificent [1] -

142:3

mail [2] - 12:22, 13:5

main [2] - 107:3,

117:20

maintenance [1] -

85:22

major [2] - 62:20,

143:25

majority [4] - 48:22,

49:22, 72:20, 72:21

makeup [1] - 84:6

Management [1] -

98:5

manager [5] - 3:9,

104:20, 104:21,

108:5, 108:10

manager's [2] -

25:25, 26:1

managers [3] - 16:5,

17:24, 26:15

manages [1] - 96:25

mandate [1] - 158:13

mandated [2] -

51:25, 155:9

mandatory [1] - 17:4

manner [1] - 112:15

Manual [4] - 28:6,

28:10, 28:14, 43:7

manual [1] - 43:7

manufacturing [1] -

94:15

map [5] - 63:15,

63:17, 71:5, 71:6

March [4] - 8:8, 8:11,

10:12, 169:5

marked [5] - 18:2,

26:2, 82:16, 97:5,

103:8

market [1] - 145:17

marketing [1] - 98:7

Marlene [3] - 61:7,

61:14, 71:4

MARLENE [3] - 4:20,

61:8, 61:14

Marquette [1] - 3:5

Mary [4] - 7:15, 15:5,

19:19, 23:22

MARY [2] - 4:4,

18:10

mass [1] - 34:23

massive [1] - 52:25

master [1] - 98:3

match [1] - 75:6

material [4] - 16:25,

51:6, 85:19, 131:3

materials [3] - 137:8,

162:1, 172:7

math [1] - 113:4

mathematical [1] -

51:7

mathematician [1] -

143:9

MATTER [1] - 1:4

matter [14] - 1:17,

10:7, 17:11, 23:22,

24:17, 26:22, 42:25,

55:20, 66:24, 86:8,

86:15, 123:16, 140:2,

152:16

matters [4] - 77:6,

77:15, 77:16, 83:1

maximize [1] -

145:19

maximum [2] -

110:7, 113:12

MC [8] - 6:3, 6:7,

141:10, 141:16,

141:22, 147:4,

147:10, 147:13

McCallan [4] - 141:3,

141:9, 141:22, 145:6

McClure [6] - 141:4,

147:3, 147:10,

147:11, 147:15,

149:25

McNiel [1] - 69:9

mean [7] - 36:18,

38:3, 51:19, 51:21,

63:23, 95:1, 116:23

meaningful [1] -

126:23

means [4] - 15:23,

117:21, 153:13,

165:15

measure [1] - 158:14

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

15

measured [2] -

51:16, 51:17

measures [1] - 77:20

mechanical [3] -

83:5, 104:3, 104:5

mechanism [1] -

17:1

meet [13] - 23:9,

23:12, 23:13, 25:6,

77:12, 77:18, 81:10,

86:23, 88:4, 93:18,

107:8, 118:6, 168:24

meeting [4] - 46:7,

65:23, 128:20, 130:15

megawatts [1] - 90:6

member [5] - 66:4,

66:5, 147:22, 150:13,

150:14

Member [4] - 43:15,

44:14, 123:23, 160:17

members [19] -

11:25, 14:23, 32:13,

49:21, 49:25, 50:24,

56:19, 66:16, 74:6,

75:1, 76:25, 86:19,

100:20, 110:1,

126:13, 138:12,

144:23, 147:14,

171:22

Mennonite [1] -

69:14

mention [2] - 45:19,

60:2

mentioned [3] -

32:19, 93:25, 171:2

mentions [1] - 45:20

merchant [2] - 90:8,

90:9

mercury [3] - 59:12,

59:13, 62:11

mercy [2] - 61:23,

148:19

merits [1] - 168:11

met [3] - 81:1, 152:4,

157:17

meteorological [4] -

65:15, 108:20,

111:14, 111:15

method [1] - 131:15

Methodists [1] -

69:14

methodologies [3] -

28:3, 108:19, 108:24

methodology [2] -

106:20, 108:25

metric [1] - 111:24

Mexicans [1] - 56:6

MEXICO [6] - 1:1,

7:3, 8:3, 8:22, 9:3,

173:1
Mexico [123] - 1:19,

2:3, 2:5, 2:6, 2:13,

2:16, 2:18, 2:20, 3:2,

3:6, 3:11, 3:17, 3:23,

8:14, 8:19, 8:25, 9:6,

9:10, 12:3, 16:18,

17:3, 17:13, 19:21,

20:9, 21:11, 21:24,

23:6, 24:2, 24:5,

25:10, 26:13, 26:23,

27:3, 27:5, 27:14,

27:18, 28:21, 28:22,

29:9, 29:10, 34:5,

36:4, 36:14, 39:24,

41:13, 48:14, 48:19,

49:1, 51:3, 54:16,

55:11, 56:1, 61:24,

62:18, 64:22, 65:1,

66:5, 67:3, 68:22,

69:9, 69:10, 70:9,

70:22, 70:25, 74:6,

74:25, 75:3, 75:6,

75:18, 76:22, 77:2,

78:4, 78:17, 78:18,

82:15, 83:22, 86:1,

90:8, 96:22, 98:2,

98:5, 98:23, 130:12,

130:14, 131:6, 131:8,

131:13, 131:21,

132:1, 133:3, 134:1,

135:2, 135:12,

135:15, 135:25,

136:2, 136:20,

137:19, 137:23,

141:24, 142:25,

143:14, 144:6,

144:21, 145:22,

146:6, 146:16, 148:8,

150:17, 150:19,

150:22, 151:7, 153:4,

153:11, 153:12,

155:1, 158:10,

158:14, 158:15,

159:18, 170:20

Mexico's [4] - 21:7,

75:17, 145:17, 146:12

MICHAEL [1] - 2:8

Michael [1] - 150:20

Michigan [1] - 151:4

mid [1] - 20:16

middle [2] - 71:14,

121:8

might [12] - 40:12,

41:6, 46:8, 55:3, 59:6,

63:2, 65:19, 67:10,

83:18, 89:7, 89:25,

102:24

mike [1] - 102:24

miles [2] - 84:16,

84:18

milestones [4] -

22:5, 22:8, 22:15,

22:17

Miller [6] - 12:1,

74:13, 74:14, 74:16,

74:24, 75:24

MILLER [5] - 3:4,

5:3, 74:17, 74:18,

74:24

million [29] - 49:5,

52:3, 53:4, 57:2, 78:9,

83:23, 85:15, 85:16,

85:17, 85:18, 85:21,

86:5, 88:1, 91:5,

93:19, 95:9, 95:10,

95:14, 111:21,

114:23, 114:24,

137:4, 137:5, 137:8,

137:9, 137:10,

148:22, 154:23

millions [4] - 52:3,

52:11, 131:1, 137:1

mind [6] - 47:10,

48:23, 50:5, 117:6,

126:21, 127:4

mine [1] - 53:22

Mine [1] - 136:24

mined [1] - 57:20

mineral [1] - 135:23

miners [1] - 130:23

minimizing [1] - 50:1

minimum [1] - 41:3

mining [3] - 57:19,

63:7, 66:13

minor [1] - 102:4

minute [1] - 47:19

minutes [7] - 47:20,

76:13, 128:22, 129:9,

140:12, 140:16,

141:15

Missouri [1] - 104:3

misunderstand [1] -

58:25

Mitten [1] - 135:2

mixing [1] - 93:21

model [9] - 39:15,

39:19, 40:4, 108:19,

111:12, 111:21,

112:18, 122:22, 126:1

modeled [4] -

111:16, 112:23, 114:9

modeling [27] -

20:16, 20:20, 35:15,

40:22, 41:1, 81:4,

81:6, 105:3, 106:17,

106:20, 108:3, 108:8,

108:13, 108:17,

108:19, 109:6, 109:7,

110:20, 111:3,

122:22, 122:24,

122:25, 123:24,

124:2, 124:5, 125:25

Modeling [1] - 20:19

models [1] - 40:12

modern [1] - 170:15

modification [1] -

86:11

modifications [1] -

91:15

modified [2] - 10:11,

10:13

modify [1] - 117:14

modular[1] - 90:16

Mojave [1] - 60:17

moment [3] - 10:8,

62:13, 100:16

money [10] - 52:6,

57:4, 57:9, 57:16,

59:16, 62:4, 62:25,

68:25, 116:15

monitoring [2] -

23:13, 34:18

MONTGOMERY [1] -

3:21

month [8] - 52:9,

58:1, 58:2, 98:17,

98:22, 148:10, 150:17

monuments [1] -

144:9

moral [6] - 62:5,

65:2, 67:20, 68:20,

69:4, 154:25

morals [1] - 154:21

morning [16] - 10:1,

11:16, 12:13, 14:22,

14:23, 29:18, 30:23,

48:12, 51:20, 61:18,

64:18, 76:7, 99:19,

99:21, 128:3, 171:24

MORROW [1] - 2:9

most [8] - 19:10,

34:9, 62:24, 64:2,

66:9, 66:14, 66:15,

130:20

mostly [1] - 117:5

Mountain [1] - 57:20

mountain [1] - 68:5

move [7] - 18:6,

29:15, 63:2, 69:2,

83:7, 97:15, 103:17

moved [3] - 58:17,

75:18, 108:4

moving [1] - 110:13

MR [261] - 11:16,

11:24, 12:6, 12:13,

14:21, 18:14, 18:15,

18:18, 18:21, 18:25,

19:3, 19:7, 19:12,

19:17, 19:20, 19:23,

20:2, 20:6, 20:11,

20:23, 21:2, 24:15,

25:23, 26:8, 26:19,

27:21, 28:24, 29:12,

29:23, 29:24, 30:9,

30:14, 30:17, 30:22,

30:23, 31:9, 31:14,

31:18, 31:23, 32:3,

32:8, 32:17, 33:8,

33:11, 33:15, 33:19,

33:25, 34:3, 34:12,

34:14, 34:16, 34:19,

35:9, 35:13, 35:18,

36:6, 36:9, 36:21,

36:23, 37:1, 37:5,

37:6, 37:8, 37:11,

37:13, 37:22, 38:7,

38:10, 38:14, 38:23,

39:2, 39:8, 39:12,

39:18, 40:19, 40:24,

40:25, 41:9, 41:11,

41:17, 41:22, 41:25,

42:9, 42:17, 42:20,

43:2, 43:4, 43:9,

43:19, 43:22, 44:3,

44:6, 44:8, 45:2, 45:5,

45:12, 45:16, 45:18,

45:22, 46:13, 50:20,

50:23, 53:24, 58:14,

58:17, 69:25, 70:3,

76:24, 81:18, 81:25,

82:5, 83:7, 83:12,

87:6, 87:11, 87:13,

87:15, 87:17, 87:25,

88:7, 88:17, 88:25,

89:2, 89:4, 89:22,

90:5, 91:2, 91:4, 91:7,

91:10, 91:12, 91:18,

91:21, 92:6, 92:9,

92:14, 92:22, 92:25,

93:1, 93:3, 93:4,

93:15, 93:17, 93:23,

93:24, 94:3, 94:8,

94:12, 94:23, 95:3,

95:15, 95:18, 95:24,

95:25, 96:6, 96:12,

96:13, 96:15, 97:14,

97:21, 99:4, 99:9,

99:11, 99:13, 99:15,

99:18, 100:25, 101:4,

101:6, 101:9, 101:12,

101:17, 101:23,

102:2, 102:18,

102:22, 102:25,

103:2, 103:4, 103:6,

103:10, 103:11,

103:16, 103:17,

103:23, 104:14,

107:20, 107:23,

109:14, 109:18,

109:20, 109:22,

109:24, 110:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

16

113:1, 113:6, 113:11,

113:17, 113:24,

114:2, 114:18,

115:21, 116:22,

118:20, 119:10,

119:17, 119:21,

120:10, 120:13,

120:20, 121:5,

121:11, 121:18,

122:2, 122:14,

122:21, 122:24,

123:4, 123:7, 123:9,

123:22, 124:5,

124:17, 124:20,

125:12, 125:14,

125:21, 126:5,

127:14, 127:19,

127:23, 128:15,

128:25, 129:6,

129:15, 129:25,

130:9, 132:18,

134:12, 134:19,

138:9, 138:12,

145:14, 145:16,

152:16, 160:16,

161:13, 163:12,

164:2, 164:9, 165:11,

166:13, 167:22,

168:1, 169:11, 170:8,

170:10, 170:13,

171:1, 171:17, 171:21

MS [266] - 10:1,

11:22, 12:4, 12:10,

12:16, 14:14, 14:17,

14:18, 14:19, 18:8,

18:17, 18:19, 18:23,

19:2, 19:5, 19:9,

19:15, 19:19, 19:21,

19:25, 20:4, 20:8,

20:13, 20:25, 21:6,

24:19, 26:7, 26:11,

26:23, 27:24, 29:2,

29:19, 29:25, 30:4,

30:11, 30:15, 30:20,

31:8, 31:13, 31:17,

31:21, 32:2, 32:4,

32:10, 33:2, 33:9,

33:12, 33:16, 33:20,

34:2, 34:6, 34:13,

34:15, 34:17, 34:21,

35:1, 35:2, 35:10,

35:14, 35:21, 35:23,

36:8, 36:20, 36:22,

36:24, 37:4, 37:7,

37:9, 37:12, 37:14,

37:17, 37:19, 38:5,

38:8, 38:13, 38:21,

38:24, 39:3, 39:11,

39:17, 39:22, 40:16,

40:20, 41:5, 41:10,

41:14, 41:18, 41:23,
41:24, 42:5, 42:12,

42:13, 42:15, 42:18,

42:22, 43:3, 43:6,

43:15, 43:20, 43:24,

44:4, 44:7, 44:14,

44:25, 45:11, 45:15,

45:17, 45:20, 46:4,

46:15, 46:22, 46:25,

47:23, 47:25, 48:2,

48:9, 48:12, 50:9,

53:23, 54:1, 54:3,

54:12, 54:15, 56:10,

56:18, 58:6, 61:5,

61:14, 61:17, 64:7,

64:15, 64:18, 69:17,

74:12, 74:15, 74:16,

74:17, 74:24, 75:24,

76:11, 76:12, 76:16,

81:15, 81:24, 83:9,

87:9, 87:12, 87:14,

87:16, 87:18, 91:3,

95:16, 95:20, 96:2,

96:3, 96:4, 96:14,

97:17, 99:7, 99:10,

99:12, 99:14, 100:18,

101:2, 101:5, 101:8,

101:11, 101:13,

101:21, 102:1, 102:4,

102:21, 103:20,

104:1, 104:19,

109:16, 109:19,

109:21, 109:23,

109:25, 110:6,

112:24, 113:2, 113:8,

113:16, 113:19,

114:1, 114:12,

114:21, 115:3, 115:6,

115:22, 116:19,

116:20, 116:21,

117:2, 119:3, 119:11,

119:20, 120:2,

120:12, 120:21,

121:10, 121:19,

122:10, 122:13,

123:12, 123:20,

125:22, 126:3, 126:7,

126:8, 127:7, 127:16,

127:21, 127:24,

128:24, 129:3,

129:13, 129:17,

132:8, 134:8, 138:1,

139:12, 139:17,

139:18, 139:19,

139:21, 140:5, 140:6,

140:7, 140:9, 140:10,

140:14, 140:15,

140:19, 141:10,

141:11, 141:22,

145:6, 147:2, 147:10,

147:13, 149:25,

150:2, 150:10,

150:12, 152:10,

159:9, 159:12,

162:20, 163:25,

164:3, 165:9, 166:9,

167:20, 167:25,

168:20, 169:21,

170:9, 170:11,

171:18, 171:23,

172:2, 172:5, 172:6

MSR [1] - 3:20

multi [1] - 88:1

multi-million [1] -

88:1

mush [1] - 51:11

must [8] - 23:9,

52:25, 62:13, 63:3,

63:4, 64:1, 68:12,

76:6

N

N-4064 [1] - 2:19

N-E-V-I-L-L-E [1] -

130:10

name [44] - 10:2,

11:18, 12:1, 14:25,

18:16, 19:18, 19:19,

47:9, 48:8, 48:13,

50:19, 54:11, 56:17,

58:13, 61:13, 64:14,

64:21, 69:24, 70:8,

74:23, 74:24, 77:1,

82:6, 82:8, 96:17,

96:18, 101:19,

101:21, 102:23,

103:1, 129:25, 130:8,

130:9, 132:17,

134:18, 134:20,

138:8, 138:9, 138:14,

141:21, 145:13,

147:9, 150:2, 150:9

named [1] - 36:24

names [1] - 75:25

narrative [1] - 13:18

narrow [1] - 55:7

NATE [3] - 5:22,

138:3, 138:10

Nate [2] - 138:9,

138:14

nation [1] - 50:7

Nation [3] - 135:15,

136:5, 137:14

nation's [1] - 62:7

National [8] - 8:17,

12:8, 24:1, 24:20,

25:3, 118:6, 118:14,

158:24

national [6] - 51:15,

75:17, 100:13, 144:9,

144:17

nations [1] - 68:2

Native [5] - 85:9,

85:11, 135:16,

136:23, 136:25

natural [9] - 23:11,

25:6, 70:23, 84:21,

85:1, 124:22, 125:11,

135:23

Natural [3] - 3:14,

130:14, 153:3

nature [4] - 128:13,

163:17, 163:23, 165:3

Navajo [10] - 37:3,

71:7, 71:8, 133:16,

134:1, 135:15,

135:17, 136:5,

137:14, 153:3

Navajo-designated

[1] - 71:8

Navajos [2] - 136:8,

136:24

near [1] - 135:2

nearby [1] - 135:21

nearly [1] - 130:23

necessarily [3] -

74:2, 126:9, 168:8

necessary [1] - 73:5

need [10] - 46:22,

60:11, 60:25, 63:12,

65:7, 68:16, 73:17,

85:19, 89:9, 133:21

needed [1] - 85:20

needs [4] - 63:10,

73:19, 124:18

negative [1] - 135:9

negatively [1] -

147:24

negotiate [1] - 22:7

neighbor[2] - 36:15,

170:19

neighbors [1] -

133:10

never [2] - 16:8,

38:11

Neville [2] - 130:9,

132:21

NEVILLE [4] - 5:16,

129:25, 130:3, 130:9

new [16] - 42:3,

65:15, 65:16, 90:14,

91:13, 92:18, 92:20,

106:19, 106:20,

116:2, 117:3, 117:8,

122:19, 124:13,

144:23

NEW [6] - 1:1, 7:3,

8:3, 8:22, 9:3, 173:1

New [128] - 1:19, 2:3,

2:5, 2:6, 2:13, 2:16,

2:18, 2:20, 3:2, 3:6,

3:11, 3:17, 3:23, 8:14,

8:19, 8:25, 9:6, 9:10,

12:3, 16:18, 17:3,

17:13, 19:21, 20:9,

21:7, 21:11, 21:24,

23:5, 24:2, 24:5,

25:10, 26:13, 26:23,

27:3, 27:5, 27:14,

27:18, 28:21, 28:22,

29:9, 29:10, 34:5,

36:14, 39:24, 41:13,

48:14, 48:19, 49:1,

51:2, 54:16, 55:11,

56:1, 56:6, 61:24,

62:17, 64:22, 65:1,

66:5, 67:3, 68:22,

69:9, 69:10, 70:9,

70:22, 70:25, 74:6,

74:25, 75:3, 75:6,

75:17, 75:18, 76:22,

77:2, 78:4, 78:17,

78:18, 82:15, 83:22,

86:1, 90:8, 96:21,

98:2, 98:5, 98:23,

130:12, 130:13,

131:5, 131:8, 131:13,

131:21, 132:1, 133:3,

134:1, 135:1, 135:12,

135:14, 135:24,

136:2, 136:20,

137:19, 137:23,

141:24, 142:25,

143:13, 144:6,

144:21, 145:17,

145:22, 146:6,

146:11, 146:16,

148:8, 150:17,

150:19, 150:22,

151:4, 151:7, 153:4,

153:11, 153:12,

155:1, 158:10,

158:13, 158:15,

159:18

newfound [1] - 56:7

next [10] - 13:21,

14:10, 14:11, 34:21,

77:6, 88:15, 110:13,

127:5, 128:22, 146:15

NFPA [1] - 118:6

night [1] - 71:14

nitrogen [12] - 17:11,

23:21, 55:17, 72:3,

75:4, 86:12, 154:1,

155:19, 155:21,

155:22, 156:3, 156:5

nitrous [1] - 55:17

NMAC [2] - 7:24,

23:1

NMED [31] - 7:12,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

17

8:6, 8:10, 16:1, 16:16,

17:17, 18:3, 28:18,

29:20, 30:2, 37:25,

41:2, 53:3, 53:7, 67:4,

77:11, 77:20, 77:25,

78:14, 78:22, 79:20,

80:10, 106:13,

106:23, 108:25,

109:9, 124:6, 124:15,

125:24, 126:2, 138:17

NMED's [4] - 27:22,

27:25, 139:10, 166:15

NMIPL [2] - 66:22,

67:4

NMPRC [1] - 96:25

NMUSA [1] - 49:2

no-brainer [1] -

152:6

NOEL [1] - 74:15

Noel [1] - 74:15

NOI [1] - 25:3

non [2] - 105:11,

125:9

non-BART [1] -

125:9

nonair [1] - 105:11

noncatalytic [6] -

72:4, 78:21, 113:22,

118:23, 119:24, 155:4

none [5] - 46:18,

83:10, 97:18, 103:21,

160:2

nonexistent [1] -

52:14

nontechnical [3] -

10:21, 10:22, 169:16

norm [1] - 65:13

NORMA [2] - 6:3,

141:16

Norma [2] - 141:3,

141:22

normal [1] - 65:16

normally [2] - 91:18,

92:8

north [2] - 84:18,

133:14

Northern [1] - 153:12

Northwest [2] - 3:5,

75:6

Northwestern [1] -

130:12

NOTARY [1] - 173:19

note [13] - 66:18,

71:7, 71:21, 77:10,

79:19, 81:4, 98:25,

112:14, 128:18,

148:3, 152:17,

163:22, 166:16

noted [8] - 71:10,

71:22, 73:1, 73:6,
108:12, 109:3,

157:17, 169:18

notes [1] - 71:23

nothing [3] - 59:14,

162:17, 171:23

notice [13] - 19:13,

20:24, 22:23, 23:3,

29:16, 29:17, 40:7,

127:25, 160:20,

161:12, 165:4,

165:22, 166:21

noticeable [1] - 52:6

noticed [4] - 36:13,

58:1, 70:20, 71:8

notices [1] - 7:21

noting [1] - 73:2

notwithstanding [1]

- 55:2

NOx [39] - 42:24,

49:14, 49:15, 71:20,

80:20, 80:24, 80:25,

86:10, 86:11, 86:17,

87:2, 91:15, 92:23,

92:25, 93:3, 93:4,

93:22, 93:25, 94:1,

94:6, 94:25, 95:4,

95:7, 102:7, 104:8,

104:9, 107:16,

111:21, 115:10,

116:25, 118:22,

119:25, 121:2, 121:7,

121:8, 142:5, 155:23

NRDC [2] - 30:25,

99:22

nuclear [10] - 57:3,

84:19, 89:8, 89:11,

89:24, 90:2, 90:15,

90:16, 91:1, 131:11

Nuclear [1] - 90:6

Number [2] - 48:17,

173:20

number [14] - 10:7,

20:19, 46:11, 52:18,

83:3, 88:2, 94:16,

106:14, 112:8,

117:11, 124:3,

153:10, 159:23,

159:24

numbers [4] - 72:22,

73:3, 81:6, 135:11

numerous [3] -

23:15, 69:13, 70:15

O

O&M [1] - 98:15

OAQPS [1] - 28:6

oath [7] - 10:16,

47:16, 82:21, 97:11,

102:20, 129:22,

141:12

object [1] - 161:24

objection [4] - 29:23,

29:24, 163:19, 164:10

objections [4] -

29:20, 83:9, 97:17,

103:20

objective [1] - 55:8

obligations [1] -

158:16

obscene [1] - 52:5

obviously [3] -

72:19, 135:15, 164:25

Occupational [1] -

19:25

occur [1] - 24:3

occurred [2] - 80:9,

80:16

October [1] - 21:20

OF [7] - 1:1, 1:4,

1:14, 8:22, 9:3, 173:1,

173:3

offer [7] - 10:21,

13:9, 14:7, 76:3,

139:25, 163:3, 165:20

offered [1] - 161:22

offering [1] - 128:12

office [2] - 11:3,

151:22

Office [7] - 2:12,

2:13, 2:17, 2:18, 3:22,

157:21, 157:22

officer [1] - 173:6

Officer [22] - 2:2,

10:2, 10:14, 11:17,

11:24, 12:14, 14:13,

14:22, 15:2, 29:13,

32:9, 45:3, 97:15,

128:15, 129:15,

163:12, 165:12,

166:14, 167:22,

168:2, 169:11, 171:22

offices [2] - 11:4,

151:18

official [1] - 119:13

offshore [1] - 36:4

often [4] - 58:22,

62:22, 66:15, 143:19

oil [4] - 25:13,

135:23, 143:21, 144:5

Old [1] - 1:19

older [1] - 49:23

ominous [1] - 61:19

once [2] - 38:18,

39:4

one [74] - 16:10,

16:17, 17:4, 21:25,

25:7, 25:9, 36:11,

40:15, 40:25, 42:20,

50:25, 51:10, 51:17,

51:23, 53:4, 58:18,

62:6, 66:9, 68:24,

71:1, 71:7, 72:8,

87:25, 88:8, 90:22,

93:17, 93:24, 100:16,

102:6, 106:15,

106:17, 107:2, 112:8,

115:6, 117:10,

118:25, 119:5, 119:8,

120:4, 121:20,

121:21, 121:22,

121:24, 123:22,

125:22, 126:8,

127:22, 128:5, 131:8,

131:9, 131:24, 133:7,

133:25, 139:24,

143:3, 144:12,

148:11, 150:17,

151:2, 151:25, 152:1,

152:7, 153:10, 157:5,

157:7, 157:12,

166:18, 168:2,

170:10, 170:13

one's [1] - 51:8

one-fourth [1] - 53:4

one-half [2] - 131:8,

131:9

ones [2] - 106:2,

111:1

ongoing [2] - 85:23,

108:11

Open [1] - 5:5

opening [2] - 77:4,

122:19

openly [1] - 52:19

operate [2] - 95:10,

95:14

operating [2] -

48:21, 112:23

operation [2] -

112:20

operational [4] -

42:10, 42:11, 85:23,

108:20

operations [2] -

83:4, 95:12

opinion [5] - 160:3,

162:18, 164:7, 170:23

opinions [2] -

110:15, 167:17

opportunities [3] -

14:3, 73:13, 76:3

opportunity [13] -

13:7, 13:8, 14:4, 14:7,

54:17, 73:6, 73:9,

73:11, 73:18, 132:7,

136:4, 151:6, 162:7

opposed [1] - 67:9

opposition [1] - 74:6

option [2] - 15:22,

62:25

options [1] - 44:19

order [9] - 10:11,

13:15, 13:17, 30:6,

47:4, 161:21, 162:2,

162:23, 169:5

Order [1] - 8:13

Oregon [2] - 21:20,

119:10

organic [1] - 34:23

organization [1] -

64:23

organizations [2] -

66:20, 160:14

organizer[1] - 70:8

organizing [1] -

69:12

oriented [1] - 145:17

original [4] - 22:14,

67:11, 107:8, 120:23

originally [1] - 95:5

ORTH [111] - 2:3,

10:1, 11:22, 12:4,

12:10, 12:16, 14:17,

14:19, 18:8, 29:19,

29:25, 30:4, 30:11,

30:15, 30:20, 32:4,

32:10, 36:8, 41:24,

42:13, 44:7, 44:25,

46:15, 46:25, 47:25,

50:9, 53:23, 54:1,

56:10, 58:6, 61:5,

64:7, 69:17, 74:12,

74:16, 75:24, 76:12,

76:16, 81:15, 81:24,

83:9, 87:9, 87:12,

87:14, 87:16, 87:18,

91:3, 95:16, 95:20,

96:2, 96:4, 96:14,

97:17, 99:7, 99:10,

99:12, 99:14, 100:18,

101:2, 101:5, 101:8,

101:11, 101:13,

103:20, 109:16,

109:19, 109:21,

109:23, 109:25,

116:21, 123:20,

126:3, 126:7, 127:7,

127:16, 127:21,

127:24, 128:24,

129:3, 129:13,

129:17, 132:8, 134:8,

138:1, 139:12,

139:18, 139:21,

140:6, 140:9, 140:15,

140:19, 141:11,

145:6, 147:2, 149:25,

152:10, 159:9,

162:20, 163:25,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

18

164:3, 165:9, 166:9,

167:20, 167:25,

168:20, 169:21,

170:9, 170:11,

171:18, 171:23, 172:5

Orth [1] - 10:2

Ortiz [11] - 9:4,

78:16, 78:18, 92:9,

96:7, 96:15, 96:18,

97:4, 97:21, 99:19,

101:3

ORTIZ [4] - 5:9,

81:21, 96:8, 101:4

Ortiz' [1] - 99:5

OSHA [1] - 15:6

ostensibly [1] -

163:24

otherwise [1] - 136:3

ourselves [1] - 68:25

outages [2] - 94:5,

94:7

outlet [1] - 118:1

outside [3] - 36:3,

91:22, 137:9

overall [5] - 65:14,

108:25, 114:2, 114:5,

114:11

overestimate [1] -

40:18

overestimated [1] -

28:12

overly [3] - 27:5,

27:13, 31:21

overpredicted [2] -

40:5, 40:7

oversaw [3] - 20:13,

108:6, 108:8

overt [1] - 52:16

overview [2] - 63:18,

78:3

own [17] - 17:23,

80:23, 84:1, 84:2,

84:14, 84:19, 84:20,

90:5, 144:4, 144:24,

148:19, 149:13,

155:14, 162:3

owner [2] - 72:20,

84:3

owners [8] - 52:2,

52:10, 78:12, 83:22,

84:3, 84:4, 84:5,

86:23

ownership [3] -

83:25, 84:6, 84:9

owns [2] - 83:25,

90:5

oxide [6] - 17:12,

55:18, 75:4, 86:12,

155:19, 156:5

oxides [6] - 23:21,
72:3, 154:1, 155:21,

155:22, 156:3

P

P-as-in-Peter-E-RR-O-T-T-E [1] - 61:15

p.m [3] - 140:17,

140:18, 172:8

PA [2] - 3:4, 3:21

Pacific [1] - 36:4

package [1] - 18:3

PAGE [3] - 4:2, 5:2,

6:2

page [12] - 33:17,

33:19, 34:22, 102:6,

102:10, 102:14,

106:11, 107:11,

109:11, 110:12,

112:12

pages [3] - 33:13,

51:5, 110:13

paid [2] - 137:4,

137:5

Palo [2] - 90:6,

131:12

panel [10] - 10:19,

15:10, 30:8, 30:13,

32:7, 32:12, 32:14,

46:17, 101:7, 110:2

pantries [1] - 67:16

parameters [3] -

108:24, 111:2, 111:13

park [2] - 51:15,

100:13

Park [5] - 8:17, 24:1,

24:20, 25:3, 158:24

parks [5] - 75:17,

144:9, 144:17,

151:19, 151:23

Parks [2] - 16:18,

22:1

part [16] - 21:16,

45:9, 62:20, 63:13,

70:14, 90:7, 104:23,

108:25, 123:7,

144:15, 149:14,

158:9, 161:2, 165:7,

169:25, 170:4

Part [2] - 7:11, 45:8

participate [1] -

166:18

participation [3] -

47:8, 84:10, 169:14

particles [2] - 59:3,

59:4

particular[5] -

118:16, 145:18,

146:10, 146:19,

165:13

particularly [4] -

27:6, 139:1, 139:2

particulate [6] -

17:11, 23:22, 34:23,

42:25, 86:8, 86:15

parties [8] - 10:7,

10:17, 12:19, 126:10,

126:19, 127:3,

173:14, 173:16

partner [1] - 66:5

partners [1] - 71:7

Partnership [3] -

20:18, 25:16, 40:1

parts [2] - 19:10,

94:17

party [3] - 72:19,

79:25, 83:25

party's [4] - 14:10,

14:11, 76:5

Paseo [2] - 3:16,

3:23

pass [1] - 73:18

passed [4] - 52:12,

54:21, 58:23, 146:12

past [5] - 62:4, 72:9,

75:7, 80:22, 131:17

pastors [1] - 69:13

patently [1] - 59:10

path [3] - 124:21,

124:22, 125:1

Patrick [4] - 8:23,

78:1, 81:12, 82:8

PATRICK [4] - 5:6,

81:21, 82:1, 82:9

patterns [1] - 66:2

Paul [4] - 132:18,

141:3, 145:7, 145:14

PAUL [5] - 5:18, 6:5,

132:12, 132:18, 145:8

pawn [1] - 52:16

pay [7] - 59:24,

72:14, 72:21, 73:16,

85:16, 130:25, 154:5

paying [3] - 27:8,

52:9, 151:16

payments [1] - 85:17

payroll [1] - 85:15

pays [3] - 137:1,

137:10, 171:4

peace [1] - 68:12

PEACOCK [16] - 2:7,

14:14, 14:18, 37:14,

41:18, 46:22, 76:11,

96:3, 139:17, 139:19,

140:5, 140:7, 140:10,

140:14, 172:2, 172:6

Peak [3] - 58:19,

153:13, 153:15

Pedro [2] - 16:18,

22:1

people [43] - 47:18,

48:20, 56:19, 57:15,

59:22, 59:24, 60:9,

60:10, 62:18, 62:22,

62:23, 65:23, 67:13,

67:18, 68:15, 70:15,

70:16, 70:19, 70:21,

71:11, 71:21, 73:7,

73:12, 73:16, 73:18,

75:9, 75:16, 89:23,

104:22, 135:4, 135:5,

136:3, 136:7, 136:25,

142:2, 143:3, 143:8,

143:9, 146:21,

148:11, 171:3

per [24] - 43:12,

43:14, 43:17, 46:8,

46:9, 49:14, 85:16,

93:19, 95:9, 95:10,

95:14, 98:22, 107:16,

111:21, 115:10,

121:6, 132:2, 143:1,

151:12, 151:17,

155:22, 155:23,

156:3, 156:4

Peralta [1] - 3:23

percent [40] - 23:25,

24:6, 27:7, 49:15,

49:23, 67:2, 67:6,

67:7, 84:2, 85:9,

85:10, 86:9, 86:12,

91:16, 94:1, 98:18,

98:23, 99:2, 111:25,

112:2, 112:25, 113:6,

113:13, 113:18,

113:21, 113:25,

114:2, 114:15,

114:16, 114:23,

115:5, 133:24,

136:23, 136:25,

142:6, 143:3, 155:18,

155:20

percentage [2] -

113:23, 123:5

perceptible [6] -

51:18, 53:1, 53:5,

53:16, 53:17, 113:18

perform [1] - 109:1

perhaps [1] - 104:15

period [3] - 91:19,

92:8, 108:15

permanent [2] -

134:24, 135:20

permit [3] - 95:8,

108:4, 115:18

permitted [1] - 95:9

permitting [1] -

108:5

Perrotte [3] - 61:7,

61:15, 64:7

PERROTTE [4] -

4:20, 61:8, 61:14,

61:17

person [3] - 19:9,

132:2, 167:11

personal [4] -

133:10, 145:19,

154:25, 160:10

personally [2] -

126:22, 173:10

perspective [10] -

138:20, 139:6,

152:25, 153:1,

154:13, 155:25,

156:6, 171:14,

171:15, 171:16

pertaining [1] - 26:9

Peter [1] - 61:15

petition [3] - 24:17,

26:21, 26:22

phased [1] - 94:6

PhD [1] - 169:17

photons [1] - 60:22

pick [1] - 25:9

pictures [1] - 135:11

piece [2] - 65:10,

126:2

place [8] - 35:15,

39:5, 41:16, 80:22,

81:5, 90:11, 101:19,

146:17

places [1] - 153:13

PLAN [1] - 1:4

Plan [26] - 8:14, 8:20,

10:5, 15:17, 37:3,

48:25, 55:15, 137:19,

138:17, 139:10,

139:23, 145:21,

149:5, 149:11,

149:17, 155:7,

155:12, 155:14,

155:15, 158:5, 158:8,

158:17, 159:7,

164:23, 168:5, 168:15

plan [44] - 13:24,

21:8, 21:13, 29:3,

41:3, 49:17, 49:25,

51:25, 52:15, 53:3,

53:6, 53:7, 75:4, 75:7,

75:21, 88:3, 89:18,

89:19, 131:23,

132:25, 134:7,

138:19, 138:22,

138:24, 138:25,

139:6, 139:10, 142:4,

142:5, 142:15,

142:22, 144:16,

144:23, 145:1,

147:25, 148:18,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

19

151:3, 151:7, 151:10,

152:3, 158:10

Planet [1] - 65:10

planet [6] - 61:19,

61:22, 62:16, 65:2,

66:25, 68:9

planning [3] - 15:4,

89:15, 98:7

Planning [1] - 18:23

plant [29] - 25:14,

49:3, 49:9, 60:21,

60:23, 63:2, 66:21,

72:20, 75:5, 75:12,

83:4, 83:24, 86:15,

88:22, 88:24, 94:15,

94:16, 95:5, 105:16,

111:17, 117:6,

117:14, 117:15,

131:11, 133:11,

137:10, 144:11,

146:22, 170:24

Plant [5] - 62:6,

63:19, 70:13, 84:15,

133:15

plants [11] - 44:16,

44:24, 46:7, 62:14,

62:20, 66:23, 122:3,

133:13, 133:19,

137:1, 143:22

Plata [1] - 135:18

Plateau [2] - 21:24,

21:25

play [1] - 158:4

played [1] - 151:16

playing [1] - 159:21

pleadings [4] -

15:16, 17:20, 18:1,

18:5

pleasure [1] - 96:2

plot [1] - 116:11

plugs [1] - 125:25

plus [1] - 130:22

PNM [73] - 7:13,

7:14, 13:21, 28:2,

28:8, 29:23, 37:23,

38:1, 39:6, 48:22,

49:4, 52:9, 72:5,

72:19, 73:14, 73:23,

74:1, 77:2, 77:19,

78:3, 78:8, 78:13,

79:3, 79:18, 81:19,

82:12, 82:16, 83:8,

83:11, 83:17, 83:21,

83:25, 84:9, 84:13,

86:2, 86:22, 86:24,

90:5, 94:13, 96:22,

97:5, 97:15, 97:20,

98:6, 101:25, 102:3,

102:15, 103:8,

103:18, 103:22,
117:19, 117:20,

118:4, 121:3, 121:4,

133:1, 136:10,

142:18, 143:25,

147:22, 148:3,

148:19, 148:23,

149:8, 150:13,

156:25, 157:10,

157:14, 157:17,

164:14, 165:13, 171:4

PNM's [10] - 27:7,

28:16, 28:18, 28:22,

38:15, 80:16, 98:23,

99:3, 119:22, 166:15

point [19] - 26:11,

31:19, 39:6, 56:25,

65:14, 95:5, 98:25,

112:4, 124:8, 125:5,

125:15, 153:7, 154:2,

154:5, 156:11,

160:23, 164:4,

169:13, 171:2

pointed [2] - 142:22,

143:10

points [4] - 34:17,

104:17, 152:24, 170:3

poison [1] - 59:13

policies [3] - 68:4,

145:19, 146:17

Policy [1] - 18:23

policy [3] - 156:9,

156:13, 165:18

political [1] - 158:3

pollutant [3] - 35:4,

43:12, 43:17

pollutants [5] - 34:9,

35:2, 35:3, 49:6, 75:5

polluted [1] - 75:16

pollution [19] - 55:1,

63:16, 65:6, 65:25,

66:9, 67:2, 67:12,

72:14, 75:21, 79:10,

142:8, 143:15,

143:23, 154:1, 154:9,

154:19, 156:5,

156:19, 170:18

pollution-free [1] -

170:18

pollutions [1] -

136:16

Pontifical [2] - 67:25,

68:13

poor [5] - 62:22,

66:16, 67:16, 143:13,

170:21

poorest [1] - 50:6

Pope [1] - 68:1

port [1] - 119:9

portfolio [1] - 146:12

portion [1] - 139:1

portions [2] -

104:14, 107:21

Portland [1] - 119:9

position [12] - 18:21,

19:1, 19:23, 20:3,

20:5, 20:7, 20:10,

78:1, 119:22, 165:18,

165:25

positive [5] - 78:10,

117:23, 135:9, 142:7,

170:24

possible [2] - 38:17,

64:5

possibly [1] - 125:8

Post [3] - 2:13, 2:18,

3:22

postcontrol [1] -

108:21

posted [1] - 24:25

poststrip [1] - 91:14

potential [1] - 100:12

potentially [1] -

100:7

pounds [6] - 93:19,

95:9, 95:10, 95:14,

115:10, 155:23

Power [9] - 3:20,

62:6, 63:19, 64:23,

66:6, 66:19, 69:10,

70:12, 133:15

power [13] - 25:14,

44:16, 44:24, 55:7,

60:20, 63:1, 66:11,

66:21, 66:23, 133:11,

133:13, 143:22, 171:8

practice [2] - 28:11,

135:12

pre [2] - 9:7, 108:21

Pre [2] - 8:23, 9:4

Pre-Filed [2] - 8:23,

9:4

pre-Filed [1] - 9:7

preaching [1] -

142:21

precedent [1] -

122:10

precipitators [1] -

94:19

predominantly [2] -

135:17, 136:24

preferred [1] - 53:7

prefiled [14] - 10:20,

15:3, 19:13, 20:24,

82:15, 82:22, 97:4,

97:9, 97:22, 101:24,

102:20, 103:7,

104:18, 107:22

prehearing [1] -

162:2

premature [3] -

75:15, 154:22, 157:25

prepare [2] - 101:24,

103:7

prepared [6] - 25:5,

25:24, 82:14, 97:4,

98:14, 172:7

Presbyterian [1] -

69:14

present [10] - 10:18,

12:20, 67:22, 79:5,

80:17, 101:7, 127:4,

128:1, 128:7, 167:17

presentation [9] -

30:6, 63:15, 63:18,

73:1, 76:5, 76:19,

76:21, 99:5, 128:9

presented [2] - 53:2,

108:14

presenting [3] -

78:1, 78:16, 79:2

president [3] - 78:2,

82:12, 147:15

pressing [1] - 54:25

pressure [5] -

117:23, 117:25,

118:2, 118:11, 157:17

pressures [1] - 116:2

presumptive [13] -

46:2, 46:6, 46:7,

80:20, 80:24, 80:25,

81:8, 93:18, 107:9,

123:10, 123:12,

123:16

pretty [5] - 25:14,

61:3, 115:1, 148:21,

155:21

prevent [1] - 167:17

preventing [2] -

154:22, 154:23

prevents [1] - 155:18

previous [2] - 20:6,

146:1

price [2] - 66:11,

117:18

prices [2] - 55:3,

151:21

pricing [1] - 97:1

primary [2] - 156:14

print [1] - 13:7

printer[2] - 12:24,

13:2

pristine [1] - 58:19

privileged [1] -

141:25

problem [9] - 59:3,

62:24, 115:16, 148:4,

148:5, 158:18, 165:1,

165:4, 171:7

problems [4] - 62:14,

75:14, 156:15, 156:16

procedural [4] -

13:17, 162:22, 166:6,

169:5

procedures [2] -

10:11, 10:12

proceed [6] - 11:5,

81:14, 95:25, 96:3,

96:13, 101:12

proceeded [1] - 38:9

proceeding [6] -

16:11, 97:12, 98:9,

166:8, 173:7, 173:14

PROCEEDINGS [1] -

1:14

proceedings [1] -

124:11

Proceedings [3] -

76:14, 140:17, 172:8

proceeds [1] - 35:8

process [15] - 22:10,

22:12, 66:12, 66:22,

70:11, 81:3, 84:10,

89:15, 89:17, 105:22,

108:11, 122:19,

135:16, 145:24,

168:17

processes [2] -

22:11, 66:15

processing [1] -

66:13

produce [3] - 66:7,

133:7, 133:19

producing [1] -

171:14

product [1] - 135:23

production [2] -

59:12, 62:19

productivity [1] -

137:12

professional [2] -

135:5, 136:7

profits [2] - 144:1,

145:4

program [12] - 21:17,

21:18, 21:21, 22:8,

24:11, 35:5, 35:6,

35:8, 36:2, 89:8,

92:21, 151:13

programs [4] -

25:22, 63:8, 89:12,

97:3

progress [4] - 23:10,

81:7, 81:10, 125:10

prohibited [1] -

168:19

prohibits [1] - 168:9

project [14] - 19:11,

34:6, 35:11, 52:7,

79:5, 84:12, 92:12,

104:20, 104:21,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

20

106:18, 108:8,

108:16, 117:12

projected [2] - 24:3,

100:4

projecting [1] -

40:16

projection [2] - 34:1,

35:24

projections [3] -

22:19, 33:21, 36:2

projects [5] - 104:8,

104:10, 108:7, 122:3,

122:16

promised [1] - 57:3

promises [1] - 56:22

promulgation [1] -

55:22

proper [2] - 57:5,

167:16

properly [1] - 57:9

property [2] - 85:18,

137:5

proposal [33] -

17:20, 31:5, 37:10,

48:17, 49:19, 52:14,

72:6, 72:18, 72:25,

73:19, 74:7, 74:8,

77:11, 78:14, 78:22,

79:16, 79:20, 79:21,

86:24, 88:9, 120:24,

151:11, 155:4,

156:12, 156:15,

157:9, 157:18,

157:19, 157:24,

159:4, 161:8, 161:9

proposals [4] - 50:5,

55:9, 63:19, 124:11

propose [3] - 21:12,

38:16, 113:10

proposed [35] - 7:17,

7:19, 8:12, 10:4,

21:10, 22:13, 26:13,

26:14, 26:17, 26:18,

26:24, 29:6, 48:25,

49:7, 53:3, 53:6,

53:14, 55:14, 56:2,

67:1, 72:22, 72:24,

88:12, 131:24,

137:19, 138:17,

138:21, 138:24,

142:5, 145:22, 152:2,

155:6, 155:7, 158:5,

158:8

PROPOSED [1] - 1:4

proposes [2] - 97:2,

132:25

proposing [3] -

36:14, 72:5, 77:21

prosper [1] - 131:21

protect [4] - 63:25,
67:20, 68:12, 68:16

protecting [2] - 50:2,

131:20

Protection [4] -

118:6, 118:14,

158:11, 168:7

protection [3] -

153:10, 153:17,

153:20

protections [10] -

31:11, 31:25, 153:8,

153:19, 153:22,

153:24, 154:14,

154:17, 157:11,

158:21

protective [2] -

155:18, 156:7

protocol [2] - 13:5,

108:17

provide [19] - 15:11,

19:12, 20:23, 27:11,

57:12, 58:2, 63:8,

67:15, 78:3, 82:24,

92:10, 98:10, 103:24,

152:20, 159:1,

166:20, 166:25,

168:4, 169:18

provided [13] -

15:14, 18:1, 26:3,

29:16, 31:16, 56:5,

72:18, 125:18, 159:2,

164:11, 164:13,

167:11, 172:3

provider[1] - 85:7

provides [10] -

16:22, 23:17, 50:1,

83:17, 83:20, 85:12,

85:24, 99:2, 161:6,

170:24

providing [6] -

83:21, 97:24, 165:2,

165:3, 166:21, 166:22

provision [2] - 16:21,

38:21

provisions [3] - 16:2,

23:16, 164:11

pseudoscience [1] -

51:10

PUBLIC [3] - 8:22,

9:3, 173:19

public [77] - 10:21,

10:22, 11:2, 11:10,

11:11, 12:20, 14:1,

14:4, 14:7, 14:8,

14:15, 31:15, 31:25,

46:21, 46:24, 47:2,

47:5, 47:8, 47:11,

47:15, 55:5, 55:25,

63:25, 64:20, 76:4,

76:20, 80:2, 89:17,

90:1, 119:15, 128:13,

128:16, 129:7,

129:10, 129:20,

136:11, 139:19,

139:22, 140:1, 141:1,

141:7, 142:17,

151:18, 152:23,

153:18, 153:21,

156:10, 156:13,

156:21, 157:1,

157:12, 158:20,

159:17, 160:4, 160:9,

161:18, 162:18,

162:24, 163:1, 163:9,

163:13, 163:21,

163:24, 164:10,

164:15, 165:2, 166:1,

166:17, 167:5, 168:9,

168:19, 169:15,

170:14, 171:15, 172:3

Public [15] - 3:2, 3:2,

3:20, 7:21, 8:24, 9:5,

9:9, 12:2, 27:3, 29:9,

76:21, 77:2, 78:18,

82:15, 135:14

public's [2] - 55:22,

56:8

published [2] - 7:11,

68:1

Pueblo [1] - 3:16

pull [1] - 47:19

pulling [1] - 118:2

pulse [1] - 86:7

pulse-jet [1] - 86:7

pump [1] - 92:1

pumps [1] - 59:22

purchased [1] -

137:7

purely [1] - 161:18

purpose [4] - 98:9,

100:14, 153:19,

166:21

pursuant [5] - 10:13,

13:17, 30:4, 86:23,

162:2

purview [1] - 164:19

push [1] - 117:25

pushes [1] - 117:21

pushing [1] - 118:12

put [16] - 39:7, 64:1,

72:24, 76:1, 92:16,

107:13, 118:9, 120:4,

128:8, 154:20,

155:14, 156:20,

157:9, 158:10,

159:14, 159:25

puts [1] - 96:24

Q

qualify [1] - 169:20

qualitative [2] - 32:1,

154:12

qualitatively [1] -

156:22

Quality [4] - 15:5,

15:7, 18:19, 20:8

quality [9] - 58:20,

67:14, 102:11, 104:7,

105:11, 108:2, 109:8,

146:20

quantification [1] -

45:9

quantified [4] -

153:23, 156:22,

159:20, 159:22

quantify [5] - 31:10,

31:14, 32:21, 100:15,

154:11

quantitative [3] -

100:6, 100:11, 154:13

questioning [2] -

87:8, 99:6

questions [61] -

13:20, 15:8, 29:14,

30:7, 30:9, 30:12,

30:14, 30:16, 30:17,

31:2, 32:3, 32:7, 32:8,

32:13, 36:8, 41:24,

42:13, 44:7, 44:25,

46:14, 47:17, 50:10,

79:11, 87:10, 87:11,

87:13, 87:15, 87:17,

87:21, 91:3, 95:16,

99:8, 99:9, 99:11,

99:13, 99:15, 99:24,

100:17, 100:20,

100:21, 106:23,

106:24, 109:9,

109:12, 109:15,

109:18, 109:20,

109:22, 109:24,

110:1, 110:6, 116:21,

116:22, 123:20,

129:23, 132:6, 132:9,

134:9, 139:11,

141:13, 171:18

quibbles [1] - 145:23

quick [3] - 31:2,

87:25, 114:22

quickly [1] - 153:2

quite [6] - 13:18,

65:23, 106:14,

124:25, 158:19,

159:24

quote [3] - 65:16,

68:13, 157:23

R

R-E-Y-N-O-S-A [1] -

70:1

race [1] - 60:12

radar [1] - 90:4

radical [1] - 63:12

radius [4] - 63:21,

71:9, 111:9, 144:10

raise [3] - 54:4,

130:1, 150:3

raised [1] - 165:13

raises [1] - 167:1

raising [1] - 55:20

ralvidrez@mstlaw.

com [1] - 3:7

ramification [1] -

39:9

ranch [2] - 57:13,

135:3

rancher [1] - 135:4

range [8] - 44:18,

45:25, 46:4, 46:11,

90:18, 112:11,

112:12, 114:25

ranges [1] - 28:17

rants [1] - 52:20

rate [10] - 74:1, 74:3,

78:19, 92:10, 92:12,

111:21, 121:8, 133:3,

133:5, 133:9

ratepayer [14] - 31:7,

31:20, 73:14, 98:10,

99:24, 100:1, 100:15,

154:3, 156:17, 157:3,

157:11, 171:4

ratepayers [9] - 27:4,

31:22, 48:24, 50:6,

52:12, 73:25, 74:4,

80:11, 92:7

rates [2] - 132:23,

133:2

rather [8] - 35:5,

60:12, 67:4, 146:4,

146:5, 151:14, 168:6,

168:10

ratio [1] - 52:7

RAY [2] - 5:20,

134:13

Ray [1] - 134:20

re [1] - 98:25

reach [1] - 80:23

reaching [2] - 62:12,

163:11

reactivity [1] - 93:22

reactor [1] - 115:9

reactors [1] - 90:17

read [4] - 38:11,

51:5, 54:22, 102:15

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

21

readily [1] - 145:2

reads [1] - 102:10

ready [2] - 76:10,

139:16

real [5] - 88:2,

114:22, 146:18,

155:2, 163:22

realities [1] - 75:13

reality [2] - 63:11,

65:15

realize [3] - 17:4,

72:7, 85:14

realizing [1] - 72:12

really [25] - 35:4,

40:5, 40:8, 51:9, 65:5,

65:17, 77:10, 77:16,

79:20, 84:22, 89:9,

92:14, 94:22, 115:4,

136:8, 136:12,

142:19, 143:11,

153:9, 153:18,

153:20, 153:24,

166:5, 167:6, 172:3

realm [1] - 91:22

reap [1] - 60:13

reason [12] - 31:4,

46:16, 84:7, 87:1,

95:21, 100:22, 107:3,

117:20, 127:9,

142:20, 166:16, 167:3

reasonable [11] -

23:10, 28:19, 43:17,

45:24, 53:12, 81:7,

81:10, 133:3, 133:5,

133:9, 143:12

Reasons [1] - 8:12

reasons [5] - 93:18,

131:4, 157:13, 169:3,

169:8

reassess [1] - 118:7

recapture [3] -

91:20, 91:21, 92:7

receive [2] - 24:16,

68:9

received [7] - 11:3,

24:19, 24:21, 25:3,

26:1, 33:10, 98:1

recent [4] - 78:7,

94:10, 139:3, 146:9

recently [4] - 15:6,

68:1, 70:13, 143:2

receptors [1] -

108:22

recess [3] - 76:14,

140:17, 171:24

recognize [1] - 68:17

recognized [1] -

154:7

recommend [3] -

75:20, 159:3, 169:2
recommendation [6]

- 55:12, 72:17,

149:12, 169:1, 169:8,

169:12

recommendations

[3] - 15:20, 135:8,

149:14

recommended [1] -

148:20

recommending [1] -

158:22

reconvene [1] -

171:24

record [18] - 11:3,

11:8, 11:13, 12:21,

18:16, 19:18, 82:7,

96:17, 101:20,

102:23, 103:19,

124:1, 152:17,

162:16, 162:17,

165:7, 166:2, 173:11

recorded [2] - 10:24,

173:10

Records [1] - 29:9

recoup [2] - 151:20,

151:24

recover [1] - 92:2

recovery [2] - 92:5,

92:13

Red [2] - 135:1,

135:2

Redirect [1] - 4:9

redirect [1] - 100:25

REDIRECT [1] - 45:4

redo [1] - 40:22

reduce [9] - 49:5,

49:17, 57:3, 66:22,

67:2, 68:4, 75:4,

142:5, 142:6

reduced [3] - 86:11,

156:3, 157:18

reduces [2] - 93:5,

155:20

reducing [2] - 44:23,

156:5

reduction [25] -

26:17, 26:25, 49:11,

49:15, 49:19, 55:13,

67:6, 67:7, 72:4, 72:5,

78:20, 78:21, 86:3,

86:9, 86:14, 93:22,

94:6, 107:15, 113:22,

119:19, 155:5, 155:6,

156:19, 160:21

reductions [3] -

34:24, 75:21, 87:2

reevaluate [1] -

125:3

refer [1] - 63:17

reference [4] - 59:1,

71:4, 71:23, 111:24

referenced [2] -

73:20, 86:4

references [1] -

23:18

referred [2] - 10:5,

77:24

referring [2] - 92:23,

163:16

refineries [1] - 25:18

reflect [3] - 16:5,

29:7, 154:21

reflects [2] - 156:8,

156:9

Reg [1] - 7:11

reg [1] - 104:2

regard [3] - 17:11,

32:20, 165:14

regarding [4] -

31:24, 45:23, 110:6,

168:5

regards [1] - 49:4

Region [2] - 8:5,

120:22

region [7] - 25:13,

36:3, 49:6, 70:16,

153:12, 155:1

Regional [12] - 7:6,

7:8, 8:15, 8:19, 15:14,

15:19, 20:18, 20:22,

23:15, 25:16, 39:25,

77:13

regional [21] - 10:6,

15:24, 17:5, 19:8,

20:12, 20:14, 20:21,

21:7, 36:2, 37:4,

48:17, 70:11, 71:5,

71:18, 77:9, 86:8,

126:16, 139:22,

153:22, 154:14,

154:16

REGIONAL [1] - 1:5

regions [2] - 109:7,

122:8

Register [3] - 36:17,

160:20, 161:12

registered [1] -

104:2

regulate [3] - 84:22,

85:2, 85:3

regulation [2] - 77:9,

77:18

regulations [9] -

21:8, 21:12, 22:10,

27:10, 41:7, 49:11,

89:6, 133:18, 162:4

regulators [1] -

93:10

regulatory [3] -

15:14, 96:25, 98:8

Regulatory [1] -

96:22

reject [2] - 56:1,

159:3

rejected [2] - 119:18,

158:11

rejecting [1] - 164:23

rejects [1] - 28:23

related [8] - 7:14,

77:15, 102:12,

106:21, 106:22,

140:1, 143:17, 173:13

relation [1] - 110:8

relationship [1] -

157:14

relative [5] - 99:1,

102:11, 102:12,

138:21, 173:15

relatively [1] - 117:9

relatives [1] - 136:6

relevant [4] - 27:6,

83:1, 103:25, 166:4

reliable [3] - 83:20,

85:12, 90:9

relies [1] - 163:8

religious [1] - 62:9

relocated [1] - 57:21

rely [8] - 70:24,

161:20, 162:13,

163:7, 163:13,

164:23, 169:3, 169:9

relying [1] - 39:19

remaining [3] - 23:4,

63:1, 105:15

remains [1] - 170:4

Remarks [1] - 5:5

remarks [2] - 77:4,

132:6

remediate [1] - 63:5

remember [5] -

39:23, 52:14, 115:20,

121:21, 143:13

REMEMBERED [1] -

1:16

remembering [1] -

121:19

removal [2] - 116:5,

137:11

removed [3] - 43:18,

46:9

renewable [4] -

83:19, 84:24, 89:23,

146:12

renewables [2] -

68:23, 73:12

repeat [1] - 113:23

repeated [1] - 111:22

rephrase [1] - 102:16

replacement [1] -

89:10

report [3] - 68:2,

68:8, 164:6

REPORTER [32] -

48:7, 48:11, 50:18,

50:22, 54:4, 54:10,

54:14, 56:16, 58:12,

58:16, 61:12, 61:16,

64:13, 64:17, 69:23,

70:2, 74:22, 130:1,

130:7, 132:16,

134:17, 138:7,

138:11, 140:12,

141:20, 145:12,

145:15, 147:8,

147:12, 150:3, 150:9,

150:11

Reporters [1] - 10:25

represent [4] -

54:15, 138:14,

158:20, 159:24

representative [3] -

71:25, 132:19, 138:10

Representative [2] -

134:8, 138:1

Representatives [1]

- 134:21

represented [1] -

128:4

representing [5] -

12:8, 30:25, 51:3,

51:17, 145:16

represents [7] -

48:20, 98:18, 98:20,

98:22, 123:6, 147:19,

156:9

request [5] - 29:2,

115:4, 137:25,

161:24, 162:15

requests [1] - 7:12

require [7] - 45:8,

45:16, 45:17, 80:5,

105:20, 116:8, 168:22

required [8] - 21:11,

29:8, 41:7, 49:18,

55:4, 93:12, 109:1,

123:7

requirement [1] -

23:21

requirements [14] -

15:18, 15:24, 17:10,

17:14, 22:18, 23:10,

23:14, 23:17, 25:25,

36:15, 41:3, 49:10,

77:12, 77:18

requires [5] - 17:12,

38:22, 68:19, 118:7,

118:15

requiring [1] - 41:4

research [1] - 44:15

resent [1] - 52:11

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

22

Reservation [2] -

133:16, 134:2

reservation [1] -

135:17

residence [1] -

135:20

resident [5] - 74:25,

130:13, 134:24,

141:24, 151:16

residential [2] -

151:11, 151:16

residents [1] -

143:19

resisting [1] - 148:3

resolved [2] - 38:3,

122:20

resort [1] - 158:14

resource [5] - 83:17,

84:20, 89:13, 89:15,

89:17

resources [4] - 64:1,

84:21, 158:10

Resources [10] -

3:14, 12:8, 96:22,

130:15, 153:3,

157:10, 157:14,

157:17, 164:15, 171:4

respect [10] - 17:10,

49:11, 62:10, 77:21,

78:14, 79:9, 80:8,

103:12, 144:19, 162:4

respectfully [2] -

29:2, 160:17

respiratory [1] -

75:14

respond [2] - 162:9,

162:21

responded [2] -

106:23, 109:8

response [6] - 7:23,

7:25, 8:10, 17:23,

23:1, 107:6

responses [4] - 8:6,

25:1, 25:5, 25:24

responsibility [2] -

67:20, 145:20

responsible [1] -

96:23

responsive [1] -

166:20

rest [5] - 13:4,

131:10, 140:25,

143:18, 143:21

restoration [1] - 63:9

restore [1] - 63:5

restrictions [1] -

52:22

resubmitted [1] -

107:9

result [8] - 28:2,
41:12, 51:12, 55:3,

55:17, 107:15, 112:6,

116:3

resulted [1] - 78:11

results [2] - 111:23,

116:24

retail [3] - 78:17,

98:23, 99:3

Retail [1] - 96:22

retired [2] - 59:20,

136:9

retirees [1] - 49:22

retirement [1] -

150:13

retrofit [6] - 72:8,

105:24, 117:13,

118:19, 120:1, 149:14

Retrofit [6] - 17:6,

17:9, 22:17, 23:20,

26:25, 27:19

retrofits [1] - 73:11

retrofitting [2] - 42:4,

119:2

revenue [2] - 59:15,

70:25

revenues [2] - 59:24,

135:25

Reverend [2] - 69:9,

69:11

reverse [1] - 55:16

review [3] - 18:5,

122:1, 122:19

reviewed [2] - 11:4,

44:19

reviewing [1] -

122:18

revise [3] - 22:15,

22:18, 24:13

revised [7] - 8:16,

22:16, 24:8, 29:6,

55:22, 107:4, 107:14

Revised [1] - 8:19

revising [1] - 22:10

revision [1] - 24:11

REVISIONS [1] - 1:4

revisions [21] - 7:17,

7:19, 7:22, 7:24, 10:4,

16:10, 16:11, 16:15,

17:8, 17:18, 17:22,

21:5, 22:13, 22:20,

22:22, 22:25, 24:17,

29:3, 29:6, 56:2,

139:23

revisited [1] - 124:7

rework [1] - 117:17

Reynosa [4] - 69:18,

69:25, 70:8, 74:12

REYNOSA [4] - 4:24,

69:19, 69:25, 70:3

RICHARD [1] - 3:3

Rick [2] - 12:1, 77:1

rid [1] - 57:24

rigorous [1] - 42:6

Rio [1] - 153:5

ripple [1] - 149:21

risen [1] - 146:10

risk [1] - 158:9

RITA [2] - 4:4, 18:10

Rita [3] - 7:16, 15:4,

18:17

River [5] - 70:18,

84:17, 84:18, 133:14,

136:15

robust [1] - 44:20

Rock [1] - 135:3

role [4] - 19:7, 20:11,

96:23, 159:13

Room [1] - 1:19

Rose [2] - 87:14,

109:21

rose [7] - 32:5,

99:12, 127:24,

128:11, 166:11,

167:23, 169:18

ROSE [10] - 3:21,

32:8, 87:15, 99:13,

109:22, 127:19,

127:23, 128:15,

128:25, 166:13

rose's [1] - 127:18

roughly [15] - 83:23,

84:16, 84:17, 85:5,

85:8, 85:10, 85:15,

85:16, 85:21, 86:12,

104:22, 107:16,

112:1, 114:23, 138:25

roundhouse [1] -

12:25

route [1] - 108:17

royalties [2] - 85:16,

137:4

Roybal [8] - 12:15,

30:12, 87:12, 99:10,

109:19, 128:4,

129:14, 167:21

ROYBAL [8] - 3:9,

12:13, 30:14, 87:13,

99:11, 109:20,

129:15, 167:22

rule [9] - 21:16, 23:6,

23:19, 29:3, 38:22,

51:14, 55:23, 56:2

Rule [7] - 7:7, 7:9,

15:15, 15:19, 20:22,

23:15, 77:13

rulemaking [2] -

10:10, 162:4

rules [11] - 21:19,

41:6, 41:16, 149:13,

162:4, 162:22, 167:4,

167:10, 167:14,

169:4, 169:13

ruling [3] - 162:14,

169:23, 170:1

run [6] - 60:14,

60:15, 84:25, 85:19,

88:24, 121:1

Runnels [1] - 2:4

rural [1] - 70:23

RYAN [14] - 2:10,

110:6, 112:24, 113:2,

113:8, 113:16,

113:19, 114:1,

114:12, 115:3,

116:19, 122:10,

126:8, 159:12

S

S-L-O-T-A [1] -

150:10

S-O-N-N-T-A-G [1] -

48:10

sacrifice [1] - 143:20

safe [2] - 83:20, 90:9

safeguard [1] - 67:22

safeguards [2] -

67:2, 67:5

Safety [1] - 20:1

Sahu [10] - 159:2,

160:24, 161:6, 162:8,

163:17, 166:4,

167:12, 168:4, 169:6,

169:17

Sahu's [7] - 161:12,

164:6, 164:12,

164:20, 165:14,

166:24, 168:24

salesmen [1] - 47:7

salient [2] - 83:13,

97:22

salutary [1] - 146:20

San [105] - 3:8, 3:14,

12:8, 12:15, 13:23,

16:18, 17:14, 21:25,

24:22, 26:10, 27:1,

27:19, 28:20, 30:25,

35:19, 38:1, 48:17,

52:1, 52:2, 52:10,

52:16, 52:20, 52:23,

58:21, 63:20, 67:5,

70:11, 70:18, 71:2,

72:2, 72:7, 72:25,

74:9, 75:5, 75:12,

77:21, 78:3, 78:8,

78:12, 78:14, 79:16,

79:23, 83:16, 84:13,

84:16, 84:17, 84:18,

85:2, 85:5, 85:6, 85:8,

85:9, 85:10, 85:14,

85:18, 89:10, 98:12,

99:22, 102:16,

118:18, 121:9,

121:12, 121:13,

121:15, 122:25,

123:1, 123:16,

123:24, 125:18,

125:24, 128:3,

130:11, 130:18,

130:20, 130:22,

131:10, 131:15,

131:19, 132:20,

132:24, 133:13,

133:14, 133:23,

133:24, 134:4,

134:23, 134:24,

136:15, 136:21,

136:24, 137:6, 137:7,

137:15, 139:3,

140:23, 142:6, 149:7,

153:6, 154:9, 155:19

Sandia [1] - 58:19

Santa [13] - 1:19,

2:5, 2:13, 2:20, 3:23,

11:6, 51:20, 74:25,

140:21, 142:11,

142:18, 144:12

satisfied [1] - 23:19

satisfy [2] - 17:9,

22:17

saw [4] - 70:15,

71:12, 143:2, 148:10

scenario [4] - 111:7,

111:17, 111:20, 112:7

scenarios [1] -

108:22

scene [2] - 112:6

schedule [1] - 89:1

schedules [1] -

91:24

scheme [1] - 15:14

Schlenker [24] - 4:7,

5:12, 12:5, 12:7,

30:16, 30:24, 32:4,

87:16, 99:14, 99:22,

100:18, 109:23,

127:20, 128:12,

129:4, 141:5, 152:11,

159:9, 161:15, 163:1,

164:8, 169:23, 170:1,

170:7

SCHLENKER [25] -

3:15, 6:11, 12:6,

29:24, 30:17, 30:22,

30:23, 31:9, 31:14,

31:18, 31:23, 32:3,

87:17, 99:15, 99:18,

109:24, 129:6,

152:12, 152:16,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

23

160:16, 164:9, 168:1,

170:8, 171:1, 171:21

SchlenkerGoodrich [24] - 4:7,

5:12, 12:5, 12:7,

30:16, 30:24, 32:4,

87:16, 99:14, 99:22,

100:18, 109:23,

127:20, 128:12,

129:4, 141:5, 152:11,

159:9, 161:15, 163:1,

164:8, 169:23, 170:1,

170:7

SCHLENKERGOODRICH [25] -

3:15, 6:11, 12:6,

29:24, 30:17, 30:22,

30:23, 31:9, 31:14,

31:18, 31:23, 32:3,

87:17, 99:15, 99:18,

109:24, 129:6,

152:12, 152:16,

160:16, 164:9, 168:1,

170:8, 171:1, 171:21

school [2] - 154:23,

168:23

School [1] - 98:4

science [5] - 19:5,

98:1, 104:5, 156:8,

156:12

Sciences [2] - 67:25,

68:14

scientific [4] - 71:18,

159:14, 159:25,

165:15

scientist [4] - 65:20,

108:2, 113:21, 115:3

scientists [1] - 65:14

SCNR [1] - 49:8

SCR [53] - 26:17,

26:25, 27:5, 27:15,

27:25, 28:1, 28:19,

31:5, 31:12, 31:16,

55:13, 55:18, 56:3,

73:4, 74:9, 78:20,

79:10, 79:16, 79:23,

80:5, 80:12, 92:4,

98:11, 98:20, 99:1,

100:9, 113:11,

114:21, 115:9,

115:15, 116:4,

116:13, 117:6, 117:8,

117:16, 118:5,

118:19, 120:4,

121:12, 121:21,

121:22, 155:8,

155:16, 155:17,

155:23, 155:25,

156:2, 156:6, 158:22,

158:24, 159:5, 161:7
SCR/SNCR [2] -

115:7, 116:11

screen [1] - 90:4

SCRs [4] - 117:3,

120:14, 120:23, 121:1

scrubber [1] - 91:16

scrubbers [1] -

94:18

scrubbing [1] -

91:16

second [6] - 105:11,

105:25, 127:22,

144:5, 144:6, 153:17

secretary [2] - 169:2

section [4] - 15:5,

23:6, 23:18, 39:13

Section [30] - 7:4,

7:5, 7:6, 7:7, 7:8, 7:9,

7:17, 7:19, 7:22, 8:15,

8:19, 15:18, 15:20,

16:2, 16:7, 16:12,

16:21, 16:22, 17:1,

17:8, 17:12, 17:19,

18:24, 21:22, 21:23,

23:7, 33:5, 33:6,

39:13, 169:14

sectors [1] - 147:20

see [24] - 19:11,

32:5, 34:19, 34:23,

37:1, 43:15, 65:2,

65:24, 71:23, 72:1,

72:22, 74:2, 83:19,

85:24, 91:18, 127:18,

127:19, 129:18,

136:15, 141:8,

142:10, 143:8, 144:7

seeing [8] - 35:2,

35:3, 65:18, 71:15,

73:25, 118:19, 119:6,

135:11

seem [3] - 118:24,

136:17, 149:12

segment [1] - 134:3

selective [15] -

26:16, 26:24, 49:19,

55:13, 72:3, 72:4,

78:20, 78:21, 118:22,

118:23, 119:18,

119:24, 155:4, 155:5,

160:21

self [1] - 56:4

self-serving [1] -

56:4

selfish [1] - 131:4

Senator [2] - 132:8,

132:21

senator [1] - 130:10

send [1] - 13:6

sense [4] - 14:18,

51:11, 89:21, 94:24

sensically [1] -

160:12

sent [1] - 73:1

sentence [3] -

102:10, 102:14,

102:17

separate [1] - 142:21

serious [1] - 50:4

seriously [2] - 75:8,

144:16

serve [2] - 99:3,

147:16

service [4] - 90:19,

97:1, 136:11, 150:21

SERVICE [2] - 8:22,

9:3

Service [22] - 3:2,

3:2, 8:17, 8:18, 8:24,

9:5, 9:10, 12:2, 24:20,

24:21, 25:1, 25:3,

25:4, 27:3, 76:22,

77:2, 78:18, 82:15,

135:14, 158:25

Services [1] - 96:22

services [3] - 78:17,

85:22, 137:10

serving [3] - 56:4,

90:8, 134:21

session [1] - 128:22

set [7] - 16:10, 23:10,

81:9, 94:10, 111:22,

117:16, 162:24

seven [2] - 84:16,

91:19

several [13] - 17:18,

22:4, 44:9, 76:19,

106:21, 106:22,

120:10, 135:7,

142:13, 153:1,

159:19, 161:25

Shakes [1] - 53:23

shaky [2] - 158:6,

164:22

shape [1] - 170:22

Shareholders [2] -

48:14, 48:19

shareholders [2] -

48:20, 48:22

shares [1] - 165:12

shed [1] - 123:5

sheets [2] - 47:3,

47:7

Shiprock [2] - 135:1,

136:14

shooting [1] - 113:19

short [3] - 88:18,

145:4, 150:17

short-term [2] -

88:18, 145:4

shorthand [1] -

173:10

shortly [1] - 11:20

show [6] - 33:3, 34:7,

34:9, 34:10, 35:7,

38:19

showed [3] - 49:21,

63:16, 71:6

shown [2] - 22:22,

33:21

shows [3] - 35:10,

40:8, 116:10

shut [2] - 120:25,

133:18

side [5] - 45:14,

105:3, 133:14,

133:15, 135:2

Sierra [5] - 70:9,

71:25, 74:6, 153:5

sign [3] - 47:3, 47:6,

47:7

sign-in [2] - 47:3,

47:7

signed [5] - 47:4,

69:7, 76:1, 91:7,

129:10

significant [14] -

34:24, 55:17, 55:20,

66:9, 80:8, 80:11,

80:15, 93:16, 115:1,

138:22, 146:19,

153:21, 155:21, 158:9

significantly [4] -

49:18, 72:23, 121:3,

138:19

similar [2] - 104:13,

119:22

simple [1] - 41:14

simplistically [2] -

111:11, 124:23

simply [12] - 11:12,

13:8, 31:20, 41:15,

80:4, 100:15, 121:14,

129:7, 157:5, 158:18,

158:19, 165:7

single [1] - 125:15

SIP [46] - 7:18, 7:20,

7:23, 10:6, 15:17,

16:7, 16:9, 16:10,

16:12, 16:13, 16:17,

16:23, 17:1, 17:2,

17:8, 17:19, 18:5,

19:8, 19:10, 20:12,

20:14, 20:15, 21:5,

21:10, 21:11, 21:14,

21:22, 22:13, 22:14,

23:4, 23:18, 24:7,

24:10, 24:13, 24:17,

33:14, 36:14, 37:18,

39:14, 41:3, 41:12,

74:7, 122:12, 122:20

SIPs [7] - 17:5,

20:20, 22:3, 22:10,

36:18, 37:16, 122:7

sister [1] - 61:23

Sister [2] - 64:15,

64:21

sisters [4] - 62:16,

65:2, 67:13, 67:19

sit [3] - 30:19,

147:20, 148:15

site [5] - 24:25, 42:2,

42:4, 111:13, 121:15

site-specific [2] -

111:13, 121:15

sitting [2] - 82:21,

146:16

situation [4] - 53:3,

69:1, 118:16, 131:13

six [6] - 19:2, 20:10,

40:12, 71:8, 84:17,

109:5

size [2] - 118:25,

151:2

skies [3] - 142:3,

144:7, 144:14

skip [1] - 144:11

slide [2] - 63:15,

63:18

slightly [5] - 10:13,

24:4, 95:10, 98:17,

98:21

Slota [4] - 141:4,

150:1, 150:10, 152:10

SLOTA [5] - 6:9,

150:2, 150:5, 150:10,

150:12

small [3] - 90:16,

92:2, 147:19

smaller [1] - 142:21

smog [3] - 71:19,

143:23

smoggy [1] - 144:7

smoke [1] - 70:18

SNCR [44] - 26:17,

27:16, 27:19, 31:6,

31:16, 49:9, 55:25,

56:8, 78:20, 80:18,

80:23, 80:24, 88:3,

93:8, 93:13, 93:16,

93:18, 95:13, 98:11,

98:17, 100:9, 102:16,

107:4, 107:7, 110:15,

111:5, 111:20, 112:7,

114:24, 115:13,

115:15, 116:12,

120:5, 121:21,

125:19, 155:4,

155:17, 155:20,

155:24, 156:3, 156:8,

156:15, 157:8, 157:18

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

24

SNCRs [2] - 120:14,

120:16

so-called [2] - 15:18,

16:25

SO2 [4] - 21:17,

22:15, 86:14, 87:2

social [1] - 55:6

societal [1] - 66:8

soil [1] - 61:21

solar [4] - 57:5, 57:9,

84:20, 89:23

solely [4] - 28:9,

72:18, 100:1, 104:9

solution [1] - 116:18

solutions [1] - 89:20

someone [3] - 73:5,

154:2, 154:5

someplace [1] -

65:22

sometime [2] -

89:13, 167:13

sometimes [4] -

37:21, 142:11, 154:6,

154:7

somewhat [2] -

10:11, 28:12

somewhere [1] -

28:15

Sonntag [4] - 47:22,

48:9, 48:13, 50:9

SONNTAG [6] - 4:10,

47:23, 48:2, 48:3,

48:9, 48:12

soon [2] - 92:11,

115:23

sorry [9] - 49:9,

87:20, 100:23, 109:5,

129:17, 129:18,

164:3, 170:11

sort [6] - 32:22,

100:2, 100:6, 100:11,

127:20, 158:3

sound [1] - 169:12

source [12] - 17:13,

40:6, 40:18, 40:22,

41:1, 60:21, 62:8,

65:15, 83:19, 83:20,

123:6, 124:9

sources [14] - 25:10,

40:8, 52:18, 63:3,

89:24, 114:6, 122:22,

123:3, 123:6, 124:1,

124:4, 125:8, 125:9

south [3] - 84:16,

133:15, 170:19

Southwestern [1] -

3:2

sovereignty [1] -

63:25

sparkling [1] -
144:14

speaking [1] - 61:20

specialized [1] -

165:16

specialty [1] - 104:8

specific [10] - 23:16,

43:11, 106:23,

108:22, 111:13,

114:19, 121:15,

122:25, 126:9, 168:16

specifically [15] -

17:20, 45:19, 64:25,

79:9, 92:23, 108:14,

110:18, 111:5,

118:18, 119:4, 139:3,

139:25, 154:1,

164:12, 168:5

specify [1] - 124:17

spell [16] - 48:7,

50:18, 54:11, 56:16,

58:12, 61:12, 64:14,

69:24, 74:22, 130:8,

132:16, 134:17,

138:7, 141:20,

145:12, 147:8

spelling [1] - 47:9

spend [2] - 52:4,

68:25

spending [1] - 52:11

spent [10] - 49:4,

52:2, 52:6, 57:5,

62:25, 68:23, 85:21,

104:6, 104:8, 116:15

spin [1] - 51:8

spiritual [1] - 65:3

Sportsmen [1] -

153:4

spot [1] - 115:17

spouse [1] - 150:16

SRC [1] - 113:9

ss [1] - 173:2

St [2] - 2:4, 2:19

stable [1] - 85:12

stage [1] - 119:15

stakeholder[2] -

16:3, 135:16

stamps [1] - 143:4

stand [7] - 15:9,

74:6, 74:7, 81:20,

132:5, 139:11, 148:13

standard [8] - 80:14,

116:23, 118:15,

118:24, 119:3,

146:12, 146:13,

168:20

standards [4] -

41:13, 46:2, 66:22,

152:5

standing [1] - 13:20

standpoint [3] -

80:4, 80:15, 161:21

Star [1] - 102:7

start [5] - 11:15,

37:23, 59:7, 73:11,

101:17

started [5] - 91:5,

91:11, 92:15, 104:24,

108:2

starting [8] - 20:16,

60:24, 72:7, 121:2,

121:4, 122:19,

128:20, 140:24

STATE [3] - 1:1, 1:4,

173:1

state [105] - 18:15,

19:17, 21:9, 22:11,

25:22, 27:7, 27:11,

27:16, 32:20, 35:7,

35:17, 41:15, 43:24,

48:7, 48:21, 49:17,

50:6, 50:18, 54:10,

56:16, 56:22, 56:24,

58:3, 58:12, 58:17,

59:25, 60:10, 61:12,

64:13, 64:24, 67:13,

69:8, 69:15, 69:23,

70:23, 72:5, 72:16,

72:24, 73:23, 74:7,

74:22, 82:6, 86:25,

88:12, 96:16, 101:19,

102:23, 114:6,

120:15, 121:25,

123:9, 123:14,

124:10, 126:1,

126:17, 126:25,

127:1, 130:7, 130:10,

130:25, 131:11,

131:22, 132:3,

132:16, 132:19,

132:25, 133:4,

134:17, 134:20,

138:7, 138:19,

138:25, 139:1, 139:6,

141:20, 142:1,

142:25, 143:18,

144:15, 145:3,

145:12, 146:2,

146:12, 146:19,

147:8, 147:20, 148:7,

148:17, 148:24,

149:3, 149:9, 149:20,

149:22, 151:6,

151:11, 151:19,

151:23, 152:3,

162:23, 164:9,

168:16, 170:21,

170:22

State [38] - 1:18,

8:14, 8:20, 10:4,

15:16, 19:6, 48:25,

66:19, 86:1, 98:2,

104:3, 104:4, 131:5,

131:8, 131:13, 134:1,

135:12, 135:24,

136:2, 136:20,

137:18, 137:23,

138:17, 139:10,

139:23, 145:21,

148:8, 149:4, 149:11,

149:17, 155:12,

155:13, 158:4,

158:15, 158:16,

158:23, 164:23, 168:5

state's [4] - 49:25,

139:10, 157:19,

168:15

state-passed [1] -

146:12

Statement [2] - 8:12,

142:7

statement [3] - 34:4,

39:14, 161:14

statements [2] -

110:16, 165:18

States [1] - 54:24

states [24] - 15:23,

16:3, 16:22, 20:21,

22:2, 22:6, 22:9, 23:6,

23:9, 35:24, 35:25,

36:17, 36:18, 36:24,

37:15, 39:25, 56:25,

58:3, 60:13, 83:23,

122:5, 143:3

states' [1] - 123:10

statewide [1] -

147:17

Station [38] - 17:15,

26:10, 27:1, 27:20,

28:20, 35:20, 38:1,

52:1, 52:17, 59:11,

67:6, 70:12, 71:3,

72:2, 72:8, 72:25,

74:10, 77:22, 77:23,

84:14, 84:17, 98:12,

118:18, 120:3,

121:14, 123:25,

130:11, 130:21,

130:22, 131:10,

131:16, 131:19,

132:24, 134:4,

136:22, 142:7,

154:10, 155:20

station [3] - 77:22,

119:10, 119:11

Station's [1] - 90:6

stationed [1] -

150:21

status [3] - 37:2,

120:19, 161:16

stay [3] - 52:25, 81:9,

144:13

stayed [1] - 150:22

step [6] - 66:12,

88:15, 105:22,

105:23, 105:25, 142:8

STEPHEN [1] - 2:11

steps [2] - 105:5,

106:10

Steve [1] - 130:9

STEVE [2] - 5:16,

130:3

stewardship [1] -

62:9

stiffen [1] - 118:15

stiffening [1] -

118:10

still [9] - 37:9, 39:19,

73:4, 74:7, 119:15,

133:2, 144:15, 163:10

stimulus [1] - 85:25

stockholders [1] -

62:4

stop [3] - 57:6,

57:16, 64:1

stopwatch [1] -

47:19

storage [1] - 66:14

stormy [1] - 65:12

straight [1] - 51:1

strategies [4] - 23:8,

23:12, 24:7, 25:21

strategy [3] - 23:13,

25:21, 108:6

Stratvert [1] - 12:2

STRATVERT [1] -

3:4

stream [2] - 70:25,

93:22

streams [1] - 59:15

strengthen [1] - 75:3

strengthening [1] -

55:1

stricken [3] - 161:24,

162:16, 163:20

strikes [1] - 139:6

strip [2] - 57:19,

57:20

strip-mined [1] -

57:20

strip-mining [1] -

57:19

strong [3] - 62:2,

66:22, 85:25

stronger [2] - 75:7,

75:22

strongly [3] - 144:25,

146:24, 155:8

structure [3] - 83:25,

84:6, 84:9

studied [1] - 146:11

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

25

studies [2] - 108:3,

108:11

study [2] - 91:1,

149:12

studying [1] - 90:14

stuff [1] - 117:15

subbituminous [2] -

38:2, 38:6

subject [6] - 10:16,

17:14, 129:22,

141:12, 164:16,

167:11

submission [1] -

165:21

submissions [1] -

26:5

submit [5] - 37:20,

47:15, 69:6, 158:16,

162:5

submittal [6] - 16:9,

16:13, 42:18, 80:16,

107:4, 123:8

submittals [6] - 7:14,

106:13, 106:14,

106:21, 106:22,

109:10

submitted [32] -

10:20, 21:14, 22:3,

22:23, 23:2, 24:23,

25:2, 37:17, 53:20,

54:19, 77:19, 79:18,

79:22, 101:25, 107:6,

108:25, 109:5,

113:12, 122:5, 122:7,

128:1, 128:16, 129:8,

152:18, 157:16,

158:23, 162:1,

164:21, 165:21,

168:6, 168:10, 170:2

Submitted [3] - 8:24,

9:5, 9:9

submitting [1] -

109:2

subsequently [2] -

39:16, 94:17

substances [1] -

59:4

subtracted [1] -

112:5

successful [1] -

122:15

suck [2] - 118:12

Sue [1] - 74:15

suffer [2] - 62:24,

143:14

suffering [2] - 62:17,

62:18

sufficient [2] - 24:8,

155:12

suggest [2] - 164:24,
171:11

suggests [1] -

157:24

Suite [3] - 2:19, 3:5,

3:11

sulfur[6] - 17:10,

22:5, 22:18, 86:9,

86:10, 94:14

sulfuric [1] - 94:14

summarize [6] -

83:13, 97:22, 104:16,

107:21, 110:14, 129:7

summarized [1] -

109:11

summarizes [3] -

33:18, 102:15, 152:24

summarizing [1] -

13:20

summary [7] - 23:24,

32:22, 53:20, 82:25,

97:25, 106:12, 107:13

summer [1] - 167:13

sun [2] - 57:25,

60:22

superficial [1] - 65:5

superimpose [1] -

63:21

supermarket [2] -

151:18, 151:22

supplement [1] -

15:9

supplemental [3] -

23:3, 25:3, 29:17

supplied [2] - 28:7,

29:18

supplier[1] - 78:5

suppliers [1] - 93:20

supplies [3] - 85:19,

131:3, 137:8

supply [1] - 133:8

supplying [1] - 133:8

support [20] - 49:25,

56:7, 62:21, 63:4,

63:8, 66:22, 67:15,

77:20, 79:23, 80:1,

84:11, 85:22, 142:4,

144:25, 145:19,

145:21, 146:23,

159:7, 160:21, 167:23

supported [2] - 67:3,

157:9

supporting [6] -

77:25, 86:24, 87:4,

144:16, 158:24, 159:5

supports [4] - 49:2,

55:16, 56:3, 78:13

supposed [1] -

159:16

Sur [1] - 3:16

surprising [1] -

169:4

surrounding [2] -

36:18, 123:10

surrounds [1] -

130:11

survey [1] - 49:21

surviving [1] -

150:16

sustainability [1] -

62:9

sustained [1] - 136:8

sustains [1] - 68:12

svigil@nmag.gov

[1] - 2:14

swear [1] - 18:9

swings [1] - 65:11

switching [1] - 31:5

sworn [29] - 18:11,

48:4, 50:15, 54:7,

56:13, 58:9, 61:9,

64:10, 69:20, 74:19,

81:17, 81:20, 81:22,

82:2, 96:9, 96:16,

101:11, 101:15,

103:14, 130:4,

132:13, 134:14,

138:4, 141:17, 145:9,

147:5, 150:6, 152:13,

173:9

system [3] - 84:22,

115:15, 116:1

systems [1] - 62:21

T

T-as-in-Tom-H-E-MI-G [1] - 82:9

Table [4] - 33:5,

33:17, 35:10, 42:22

table [4] - 33:22,

43:1, 123:18

Tables [1] - 42:22

tables [3] - 33:2,

34:14, 51:7

tank [1] - 145:17

tanks [1] - 93:10

Taos [2] - 3:17,

153:13

tax [4] - 133:23,

134:2, 134:5, 137:5

taxes [7] - 55:3,

59:24, 85:18, 131:1,

137:2, 137:4, 151:25

taxpayers' [1] - 57:9

Tech [1] - 65:21

Technical [1] - 8:18

technical [40] -

10:18, 10:20, 14:5,

37:24, 47:2, 76:5,

79:22, 79:25, 80:3,

128:1, 140:20,

140:22, 158:6,

160:13, 160:18,

161:3, 161:4, 161:6,

161:10, 161:20,

161:23, 162:23,

163:5, 163:8, 163:11,

163:14, 163:17,

163:23, 164:18,

165:3, 165:14,

165:20, 166:17,

166:19, 168:9,

168:18, 168:21,

169:19, 169:20

technically [2] -

27:17, 125:6

technicians [1] -

59:19

technological [1] -

155:3

technologies [33] -

42:24, 42:25, 44:9,

44:16, 44:22, 46:1,

59:10, 60:3, 60:4,

60:8, 78:25, 79:13,

80:9, 86:6, 89:6,

90:15, 90:22, 91:13,

93:1, 98:16, 100:9,

105:14, 105:24,

106:1, 106:4, 111:1,

114:14, 116:16,

123:1, 125:17,

126:14, 154:19

technology [72] -

27:12, 31:5, 31:12,

31:16, 44:10, 44:11,

44:21, 49:9, 49:12,

49:20, 51:25, 55:14,

55:16, 55:25, 56:3,

60:2, 60:3, 60:5, 64:4,

66:7, 72:1, 72:3,

78:19, 79:10, 80:14,

80:18, 80:23, 80:25,

83:6, 86:16, 88:5,

92:18, 93:8, 93:13,

93:16, 93:20, 98:12,

98:20, 102:8, 106:9,

107:7, 113:22,

119:19, 119:23,

120:5, 120:17,

125:19, 145:2,

148:21, 149:6,

149:14, 155:4, 155:5,

155:6, 155:9, 155:17,

155:25, 156:2, 156:6,

156:8, 156:20, 157:7,

158:23, 158:24,

159:5, 160:22, 161:7,

171:13

Technology [7] -

17:6, 17:9, 22:18,

23:21, 26:25, 27:19,

102:7

teenagers [1] - 71:15

teleconference [2] -

10:13, 30:5

template [1] - 108:18

ten [1] - 95:2

tend [2] - 14:9,

151:14

tender [3] - 87:8,

99:6, 109:14

tends [3] - 85:3,

116:17, 151:2

term [11] - 23:12,

24:7, 25:20, 25:21,

66:24, 88:17, 88:18,

88:19, 141:24, 145:3,

145:4

terms [25] - 31:24,

32:23, 38:15, 67:14,

72:11, 77:10, 78:10,

78:24, 81:2, 81:4,

131:2, 152:23, 154:3,

155:2, 155:16, 157:6,

158:20, 160:18,

161:10, 161:14,

164:10, 164:12,

171:3, 171:11

testified [23] - 18:12,

48:5, 50:16, 54:8,

56:14, 58:10, 61:10,

64:11, 69:21, 74:20,

82:3, 96:10, 101:16,

110:22, 130:5,

132:14, 134:15,

138:5, 141:18,

145:10, 147:6, 150:7,

152:14

testify [4] - 61:24,

81:12, 134:22, 167:12

testifying [1] - 81:19

testimonies [2] -

71:12, 71:24

testimony [99] -

10:16, 10:21, 11:21,

13:15, 13:18, 14:15,

15:3, 15:9, 15:13,

16:1, 16:16, 17:17,

19:13, 20:24, 22:21,

23:17, 32:12, 77:19,

78:1, 78:23, 79:21,

79:22, 80:1, 82:16,

82:19, 82:22, 83:14,

87:22, 97:5, 97:9,

97:11, 97:22, 98:9,

99:5, 100:14, 101:24,

102:9, 102:20, 103:8,

103:12, 103:14,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

26

104:15, 104:18,

104:25, 106:12,

107:12, 107:19,

107:22, 109:11,

110:3, 127:4, 128:1,

128:16, 129:22,

134:6, 140:20,

140:22, 148:2,

160:13, 160:24,

161:12, 161:19,

162:5, 162:13,

162:23, 163:5, 163:9,

163:14, 164:20,

165:3, 165:14,

165:15, 165:16,

165:20, 166:17,

166:20, 166:22,

166:23, 166:24,

167:2, 167:4, 167:10,

168:4, 168:9, 168:18,

168:21, 168:24,

169:3, 169:16,

169:19, 169:20,

169:24, 172:3, 173:8,

173:10, 173:11

TESTIMONY [18] -

48:6, 50:17, 54:9,

56:15, 58:11, 61:11,

64:12, 69:22, 74:21,

130:6, 132:15,

134:16, 138:6,

141:19, 145:11,

147:7, 150:8, 152:15

Testimony [23] -

4:11, 4:13, 4:15, 4:17,

4:19, 4:21, 4:23, 4:25,

5:4, 5:17, 5:19, 5:21,

5:23, 6:4, 6:6, 6:8,

6:10, 6:12, 7:15, 7:16,

8:23, 9:4, 9:7

Texas [1] - 65:21

THE [40] - 1:1, 1:4,

1:4, 32:16, 48:7,

48:11, 50:18, 50:22,

54:4, 54:10, 54:14,

56:16, 58:12, 58:16,

61:12, 61:16, 64:13,

64:17, 69:23, 70:2,

74:22, 87:24, 110:5,

130:1, 130:7, 132:16,

134:17, 138:7,

138:11, 140:12,

141:20, 145:12,

145:15, 147:8,

147:12, 150:3, 150:9,

150:11, 159:11

THEMIG [19] - 5:6,

81:21, 82:1, 88:7,

88:25, 89:4, 90:5,

91:7, 91:12, 91:21,
92:9, 92:22, 93:1,

93:4, 93:17, 94:3,

94:12, 95:3, 95:24

Themig [14] - 8:23,

78:1, 78:2, 78:7,

81:12, 82:6, 82:8,

82:10, 82:24, 83:12,

87:19, 87:21, 95:21,

95:23

themselves [3] -

16:3, 136:8, 143:20

therefore [3] - 27:17,

28:14, 167:18

they've [10] - 72:13,

72:15, 105:21,

119:22, 119:24,

132:22, 133:17,

144:21, 157:13,

157:24

thick [1] - 70:17

thicker [2] - 142:12

thinking [2] - 60:15,

144:1

thinks [1] - 133:1

third [3] - 50:6,

105:13, 106:2

thorough [1] - 55:8

thousands [2] -

144:18

threaten [1] - 133:22

three [17] - 17:25,

25:17, 47:19, 86:3,

89:18, 91:19, 94:13,

104:11, 106:15,

111:14, 120:3, 128:7,

129:16, 133:19,

139:24, 156:14

three-dimensional

[1] - 111:14

three-minute [1] -

47:19

three-year [1] - 89:18

threshold [2] -

113:15, 121:7

throughout [10] -

35:16, 52:19, 62:16,

65:2, 69:7, 69:15,

108:11, 114:11, 125:8

throwing [1] - 59:16

tie [1] - 89:16

timeline [3] - 37:20,

92:11, 92:15

timer [1] - 47:19

timing [1] - 39:22

TIMOTHY [1] - 2:9

tin [1] - 118:13

TO [1] - 1:4

today [28] - 11:6,

15:4, 33:10, 48:16,

48:24, 54:18, 61:19,

61:25, 63:11, 65:4,

70:5, 70:7, 77:6,

88:20, 104:25, 107:3,

124:24, 135:7,

138:16, 141:1,

145:16, 147:21,

148:16, 149:10,

150:12, 152:23,

163:2, 172:3

together[8] - 69:2,

96:24, 107:13, 114:9,

141:1, 149:19, 159:25

Tom [1] - 82:9

tomorrow [7] - 11:6,

11:9, 128:9, 140:22,

140:24, 163:2, 171:24

ton [12] - 43:12,

43:14, 43:17, 46:8,

46:9, 107:17, 121:6,

156:1, 156:3, 156:4

tons [3] - 49:14,

107:16, 155:22

took [7] - 41:15,

100:1, 111:2, 111:20,

112:4, 123:25, 149:5

top [2] - 115:19,

146:5

top-down [1] - 146:5

topic [1] - 89:25

topics [1] - 97:22

torn [1] - 126:17

total [9] - 43:1,

49:15, 86:4, 89:5,

93:5, 94:5, 112:16,

112:21, 123:5

totally [2] - 57:12,

57:24

tourism [4] - 70:22,

73:21, 144:4, 144:5

tourists [3] - 144:7,

144:19, 151:19

toward [3] - 63:2,

92:17, 142:13

towards [5] - 69:2,

73:13, 88:15, 125:11,

171:12

Townsend [1] -

10:25

toxic [1] - 62:11

track [1] - 81:9

trading [2] - 21:17

traditional [1] - 95:6

Trail [1] - 1:19

trained [1] - 111:15

training [1] - 63:8

transcribed [1] -

10:24

transcript [4] - 11:2,

47:9, 173:9, 173:11

TRANSCRIPT [1] -

1:14

transition [5] - 63:3,

63:4, 63:12, 68:18,

171:12

transitioning [1] -

73:12

Transport [3] -

15:21, 16:20, 20:17

treated [1] - 167:5

tremendous [6] -

130:24, 131:12,

131:20, 132:3,

133:20, 134:4

trend [1] - 94:24

tribe [1] - 37:3

tribes [3] - 15:23,

137:5, 137:14

triggers [2] - 57:1,

57:3

troubled [1] - 55:19

true [5] - 72:7, 72:12,

73:4, 162:22, 173:11

truly [1] - 124:15

truth [1] - 63:10

try [4] - 115:11,

125:10, 127:6, 162:12

trying [9] - 13:13,

65:24, 92:7, 92:20,

104:12, 153:25,

154:8, 158:13, 158:19

Tuesday [1] - 30:5

turn [6] - 46:19,

46:20, 47:1, 76:21,

114:18, 149:8

turning [1] - 102:22

TVA [1] - 90:22

two [29] - 10:17,

28:15, 50:5, 53:10,

54:20, 61:2, 63:1,

79:2, 80:9, 84:4,

86:14, 86:16, 90:7,

94:22, 98:16, 101:5,

101:6, 115:2, 115:10,

116:16, 120:4,

121:21, 126:9, 128:6,

129:16, 133:13,

139:24, 143:22, 153:9

type [5] - 123:13,

123:14, 123:17,

162:13, 168:8

types [1] - 126:14

typically [2] - 106:15,

117:3

typo [1] - 102:13

typographical [2] -

29:7, 102:5

U

UHL [61] - 4:4, 18:10,

19:19, 19:21, 19:25,

20:4, 20:8, 20:13,

20:25, 26:7, 26:11,

26:23, 27:24, 29:2,

31:8, 31:13, 31:17,

31:21, 32:2, 34:21,

35:2, 35:14, 35:21,

36:20, 36:22, 36:24,

37:4, 37:7, 37:9,

37:12, 37:17, 38:5,

38:8, 38:13, 38:21,

38:24, 39:3, 39:11,

40:16, 40:20, 41:5,

41:10, 41:14, 41:23,

42:5, 42:12, 42:15,

42:18, 42:22, 43:3,

43:6, 43:15, 43:20,

43:24, 44:4, 44:14,

45:11, 45:15, 45:17,

45:20, 46:4

Uhl [9] - 7:15, 15:5,

15:25, 19:17, 19:19,

23:22, 26:5, 26:19,

27:21

Uhl's [1] - 17:17

ultimately [3] -

89:12, 155:10, 158:10

um-hum [2] - 113:16,

116:20

unacceptable [1] -

31:7

uncontrolled [1] -

121:8

under [26] - 10:16,

16:7, 21:22, 47:16,

47:20, 60:19, 77:12,

82:21, 84:10, 88:2,

91:12, 95:11, 97:11,

102:20, 127:1,

129:22, 141:12,

141:14, 153:8, 155:9,

155:23, 156:24,

163:24, 165:15,

168:17

underestimating [1]

- 28:13

underground [1] -

90:17

underlie [1] - 46:1

understood [1] -

43:9

undertake [1] - 79:4

undertaken [1] -

78:8

unemployment [1] -

148:9

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

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(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

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unfortunate [1] -

148:11

unfortunately [5] -

39:22, 53:2, 54:20,

84:25, 116:4

unique [2] - 16:5,

135:22

Unit [10] - 3:17, 84:2,

84:4, 84:5, 90:8,

112:20, 118:8, 120:4

unit [15] - 53:5,

90:23, 94:7, 110:7,

111:18, 112:10,

112:13, 112:19,

117:3, 117:21,

117:22, 117:24,

118:3, 118:4

unit-by-unit [1] -

112:10

United [1] - 54:23

units [14] - 27:1,

63:1, 84:1, 85:1, 90:7,

108:21, 111:17,

112:15, 112:17,

114:22, 120:3,

120:24, 122:4, 133:19

Units [2] - 84:1, 84:4

University [5] - 19:6,

65:21, 98:2, 98:5,

104:4

unless [1] - 60:6

unlike [1] - 170:19

unquote [1] - 157:23

unreasonable [1] -

53:11

unrelated [1] - 52:24

untimely [1] - 162:2

unusual [1] - 90:11

up [50] - 11:12,

11:13, 16:13, 30:19,

36:11, 38:18, 38:24,

44:10, 44:12, 45:1,

50:12, 52:3, 57:7,

57:8, 58:20, 59:3,

59:17, 70:5, 71:13,

71:15, 73:18, 81:20,

95:17, 95:18, 100:24,

101:10, 104:13,

109:2, 111:11,

111:22, 112:12,

112:15, 114:22,

115:25, 117:16,

117:18, 122:19,

123:21, 124:13,

129:10, 130:21,

140:11, 140:23,

141:10, 141:11,

142:1, 144:24,

151:14, 153:12, 171:5

updated [1] - 109:6
updates [2] - 107:7,

109:8

upgrade [4] - 49:16,

91:5, 95:8, 118:5

upgrades [8] - 49:5,

49:18, 78:8, 78:11,

86:3, 86:22, 88:5,

94:21

upper [1] - 28:17

urban [1] - 75:16

urea [2] - 93:13,

93:21

urge [11] - 48:24,

80:2, 131:23, 134:6,

137:16, 137:20,

138:16, 139:9,

144:20, 144:25,

146:24

urges [2] - 56:1, 56:3

US [2] - 8:17, 46:7

usage [1] - 149:2

useful [4] - 39:3,

60:6, 88:22, 105:15

USEPA [11] - 8:4,

17:24, 26:14, 26:17,

28:2, 28:4, 28:9,

28:13, 42:5, 43:6,

53:8

USEPA's [4] - 26:11,

27:25, 28:6, 28:23

uses [2] - 73:23,

145:2

USFS [2] - 8:8, 8:10

utility [5] - 27:8,

48:21, 83:2, 133:2,

133:5

Utility [2] - 48:14,

48:19

utilize [4] - 17:1,

93:7, 93:9, 93:14

utilizing [1] - 28:2

V

Valley [2] - 135:1,

135:2

valuable [1] - 161:7

value [3] - 45:13,

67:23, 85:13

values [5] - 34:11,

45:13, 62:9, 102:11,

102:12

variability [1] - 95:11

variables [2] - 89:16,

91:23

variation [1] - 34:19

variations [1] - 119:1

various [18] - 59:4,

59:10, 78:25, 79:12,

84:3, 90:19, 98:7,

108:3, 108:6, 109:7,

110:25, 111:15,

122:7, 124:9, 125:2,

158:7

vast [2] - 48:22,

49:22

Vatican [2] - 68:1,

68:14

Vaughan [1] - 69:8

Veatch [12] - 9:7,

79:3, 98:14, 101:22,

103:5, 104:2, 104:6,

104:22, 108:1, 108:6,

110:2, 113:11

vendor[4] - 28:7,

28:8, 28:13, 43:7

vendor-supplied [1]

- 28:7

verbal [1] - 11:10

Verde [2] - 90:6,

131:12

verified [1] - 121:23

version [2] - 18:2,

121:16

versus [7] - 31:16,

42:2, 79:17, 155:5,

155:17, 155:23, 157:7

via [2] - 168:9,

168:19

viability [1] - 90:2

viable [1] - 72:17

vice [2] - 78:2, 82:12

vice-president [2] -

78:2, 82:12

view [5] - 58:24,

124:25, 146:2, 153:9,

157:23

viewed [1] - 31:6

views [2] - 58:20,

166:4

Vigil [2] - 163:8,

169:10

VIGIL [4] - 2:11,

163:12, 164:2, 169:11

Virginia [3] - 74:13,

74:16, 74:24

VIRGINIA [2] - 5:3,

74:18

virtually [1] - 52:14

Visibility [3] - 15:21,

16:20, 20:17

visibility [68] - 22:19,

25:7, 31:11, 31:25,

32:20, 32:25, 33:3,

33:7, 34:4, 35:8, 36:1,

45:13, 45:14, 49:2,

49:6, 49:13, 51:13,

51:14, 51:16, 51:18,

52:7, 52:15, 52:24,

53:1, 53:5, 53:14,

53:16, 57:7, 59:2,

81:10, 88:13, 100:12,

105:17, 106:8, 110:7,

111:6, 111:23, 112:1,

112:3, 112:5, 112:6,

113:1, 113:2, 113:7,

113:10, 113:12,

113:13, 113:18,

114:11, 114:23,

122:21, 124:15,

124:23, 125:11,

125:15, 143:24,

144:3, 144:19, 151:9,

153:8, 153:17,

153:19, 153:20,

153:24, 157:11,

158:21

visible [1] - 126:23

visit [1] - 75:17

VOLKERDING [20] -

2:8, 36:9, 36:21,

36:23, 37:1, 37:6,

37:8, 37:11, 37:13,

37:22, 38:7, 38:10,

38:14, 38:23, 39:2,

39:8, 39:12, 39:18,

40:19, 40:24

VOLUME [1] - 1:24

voluntary [1] - 22:4

Voters [4] - 54:16,

54:23, 55:11, 56:1

vulnerable [1] -

66:16

W

W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S [1] -

54:13

wade [1] - 161:5

wager [1] - 161:5

waking [1] - 71:13

walk [3] - 110:11,

114:16, 114:19

walking [1] - 67:18

wants [1] - 152:1

warmer [1] - 65:14

warming [2] - 52:21,

75:8

Washington [4] -

21:15, 66:19, 146:3,

146:5

waste [1] - 66:14

wasting [1] - 158:9

watched [2] - 56:20,

57:19

water [6] - 61:21,

62:2, 66:8, 68:10,

142:2, 143:15

Water [1] - 130:14

Waterflow [1] -

135:19

watersheds [1] -

68:6

weakening [1] - 67:5

weather [2] - 65:13,

66:1

web [1] - 24:25

week [3] - 10:14,

13:16, 26:2

weeks [2] - 60:16,

142:13

weight [7] - 164:18,

164:25, 165:8,

165:23, 166:2, 167:6,

168:13

weirding [1] - 65:17

welcome [3] - 47:14,

61:17, 101:4

welfare [1] - 159:17

well-being [1] -

144:2

West [4] - 3:10, 22:2,

35:16, 65:22

Western [15] - 3:16,

12:7, 15:22, 16:3,

16:5, 20:18, 22:6,

22:9, 24:23, 25:16,

30:24, 35:25, 39:25,

152:25

wet [1] - 65:12

Wheeler [1] - 153:13

whereas [3] -

116:12, 121:4, 121:9

whole [7] - 65:4,

94:13, 112:18, 126:1,

128:9, 132:3, 135:16

wide [3] - 111:18,

112:7, 119:1

WildEarth [5] - 3:14,

12:9, 31:1, 99:23,

153:6

Wilderness [4] -

22:1, 153:14, 153:15

wilderness [3] -

51:15, 100:13, 144:10

Wildlife [4] - 8:18,

24:21, 25:4, 158:25

WILLIAMS [5] - 4:14,

54:3, 54:6, 54:12,

54:15

Williams [3] - 54:2,

54:12, 56:10

willing [2] - 50:24,

73:16

win [1] - 53:3

wind [5] - 57:5,

57:10, 58:1, 84:20,

89:23

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wise [1] - 88:18

withdrawn [2] -

39:16, 39:18

withdrew [1] - 40:3

witness [2] - 81:12,

87:8

WITNESSES [1] - 4:3

witnesses [19] -

10:18, 11:20, 13:24,

15:3, 18:7, 79:2,

81:16, 81:19, 109:15,

126:10, 127:9,

127:25, 128:5, 128:6,

128:8, 129:16, 160:5,

173:8, 173:12

woefully [1] - 142:15

Women [4] - 54:15,

54:23, 55:11, 56:1

wondered [1] - 32:21

wondering [1] -

159:21

woodburning [2] -

170:17

words [2] - 116:14,

125:10

Worker [1] - 69:12

workers [2] - 63:9,

136:22

world [1] - 63:12

worse [1] - 53:7

worst [4] - 24:6,

35:11, 40:17, 59:12

worth [1] - 126:23

worthwhile [1] -

137:22

worthy [1] - 156:18

WRAP [3] - 81:5,

81:9, 124:2

wrecked [1] - 57:21

wrestling [1] -

126:22

writing [3] - 47:15,

53:21, 54:19

written [14] - 11:11,

13:9, 13:18, 15:9,

15:25, 19:12, 20:23,

47:23, 53:21, 82:15,

118:15, 128:16,

129:7, 172:6

wrote [1] - 50:25

Wyoming [1] -

120:11

Y

year [27] - 35:6,

49:14, 61:2, 85:16,

89:18, 89:19, 98:16,

98:21, 100:4, 107:16,
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108:15, 131:1, 137:2,

137:8, 137:10, 143:7,

143:12, 144:18,

144:22, 151:12,

151:13, 151:17,

154:15, 154:23,

155:23, 169:19

years [45] - 19:2,

20:10, 20:19, 34:8,

34:25, 40:11, 40:12,

49:23, 56:20, 57:13,

60:20, 61:2, 80:22,

83:3, 88:14, 88:19,

88:21, 88:23, 90:20,

90:23, 91:19, 92:2,

92:3, 92:4, 94:13,

94:16, 95:2, 98:6,

103:5, 104:2, 104:6,

104:9, 108:2, 119:7,

125:2, 131:17,

134:21, 134:25,

135:24, 136:17,

146:9, 146:15, 150:18

yellow [1] - 70:18

yesterday [3] - 65:9,

128:17, 152:17

yesterday's [1] -

152:22

yield [1] - 53:1

young [2] - 35:5,

71:14

yourself [1] - 129:24

Z

zero [5] - 51:20,

52:8, 52:12, 117:24,

118:3

zone [1] - 143:20
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STATE OF NEW MEXICO

BEFORE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD

No. EIB 11-01(R)

IN THE MATTER OF THE PROPOSED REVISIONS

TO THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN

FOR REGIONAL HAZE

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BE IT REMEMBERED that on the 2nd day of June, 2011,

this matter came on for hearing before the Environmental

Improvement Board, taken at the San Juan College, Room

7103, 4601 College Boulevard, Farmington, New Mexico, at

the hour of 9:08 a.m.

VOLUME 2
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A P P E A R A N C E S

The Hearing Officer:

FELICIA ORTH

New Mexico Environment Department

1190 St. Francis Drive

Harold Runnels Building

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501

The New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board:

DEBORAH PEACOCK

GREGORY H. FULFER

JAMES R. CASCIANO

JOHN MICHAEL VOLKERDING

TIMOTHY L. MORROW

JEFFREY W. BRYCE

ELIZABETH RYAN

STEPHEN VIGIL

Assistant Attorney General

Civil Division

Office of the Attorney General

Post Office Drawer 1508

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-1508

(505) 827-6040

svigil@nmag.gov

For New Mexico Environment Department:

BILL GRANTHAM

Office of General Counsel

New Mexico Environment Department

Post Office Box 5469

1190 St. Francis Drive

Suite N-4064

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502-5469

(575) 779-1627

bill.grantham@state.nm.us
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A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)

For Public Service Company of New Mexico and

Southwestern Public Service Company:

RICHARD L. ALVIDREZ

MILLER STRATVERT PA

Attorneys at Law

500 Marquette, Northwest

Suite 1100

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 824-4737

ralvidrez@mstlaw.com

For San Juan Coal Company:

CHARLES E. ROYBAL

Manager of Energy Coal Legal

BHP Billiton

300 West Arrington

Suite 200

Farmington, New Mexico 87401

(505) 598-4358

charles.ce.roybal@bhpbilliton.com

For M-S-R Public Power Agency:

LOUIS W. ROSE

MONTGOMERY & ANDREW, PA

Attorneys at Law

Post Office Box 2307

325 Paseo de Peralta

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2307

(505) 982-3873

lrose@montand.com
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I N D E X

PAGE

WITNESSES:

WILLIAM SHARER

Direct Testimony 184

THOMAS C. TAYLOR

Direct Testimony 187

JOSEPH R. GONZALES

Direct Testimony 190

JAMES C. HENDERSON

Direct Testimony 193

ELOISE BROWN

Direct Testimony 197

GORDON GLASS

Direct Testimony 202

MIKE EISENFELD

Direct Testimony 205

DEANNA COLLINS

Direct Testimony 207

JAMES CRAWFORD

Further Direct Testimony 210

BILL HAGLER

Direct Testimony 212

DOYLE MEYER

Direct Testimony 214
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I N D E X (Continued)

PAGE

WITNESSES:

JOHN CLINE

Direct Examination by Mr. Roybal 217

Examination by the Board 227

Redirect Examination by Mr. Roybal 234

Cross Examination by Mr. Grantham 234

Further Examination by the Board 235

NORMAN BENALLY

Direct Examination by Mr. Roybal 239

MARGARET MC DANIEL

Direct Testimony 245

JOE ROGERS

Direct Testimony 247

JOSH ORTEGA

Direct Testimony 249

LUCINDA Y. BENNALLEY

Direct Testimony 251

CLAYTON BENALLY

Direct Testimony 255

EUGENIA QUINTANA

Direct Testimony 259

CONSTANCE LOUISE FALK

Direct Testimony 265
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I N D E X (Continued)

PAGE

WITNESSES:

RUDY MOYA

Direct Testimony 268

DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS

Further Examination by the Board 276

Further Direct Examination by

Mr. Alvidrez 286
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E X H I B I T S

ADMITTED

SAN JUAN COAL COMPANY:

A. Direct Testimony of Norman Dean Benally 240

B. Direct Testimony of John R. Cline 219

PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW MEXICO:

A. (In rebuttal) Public Health Analysis of

Air Emissions Impacts from the San Juan

Generating Station (SJGS), Farmington,

New Mexico, June 1, 2011 289
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MS. ORTH: All right. Good morning.

My name is Felicia Orth. I'm the Hearing

Officer appointed by the Environmental Improvement Board

to conduct a hearing in the matter of proposed revisions

to the State Implementation Plan for regional haze,

docketed by the Board administrator as EIB 11-01.

We're reconvening in this matter this morning.

We had most of the technical testimony yesterday in

Santa Fe and some public comment. We'll hear more

technical testimony today and accept additional public

comment. The Board may choose to deliberate on this

matter at the close of the record, which we expect to be

today.

Testimony and comment is taken under oath. It

is subject to cross-examination and questioning,

particularly by the Board.

The proceedings today are being recorded and

transcribed by Cheryl Arreguin of Kathy Townsend Court

Reporters. Please contact Ms. Arreguin directly if

you'd like a copy of the transcript. It also becomes a

public record available for review once it's been

received in the office of the administrator.

Counsel -- I see Mr. Alvidrez here. We're not

in our usual places.

But let me know that you're here,
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Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes. For the record, Rick

Alvidrez on behalf of Public Service Company of New

Mexico.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

Mr. Grantham?

MR. GRANTHAM: Bill Grantham with the New

Mexico Environment Department.

MS. ORTH: Okay.

We have Mr. Rose.

MR. ROSE: Yeah. Louis Rose with --

representing M-S-R Public Power Agency.

MS. ORTH: Okay.

And Mr. Roybal.

MR. ROYBAL: Good morning, Madam Hearing

Officer.

Charles Roybal for BHP Billiton and San Juan

Coal Company.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

And I don't believe Mr. Schlenker-Goodrich was

joining us today.

Am I wrong about that?

No. All right.

As I understand it, counsel, we're going to

begin with technical testimony from San Juan Coal
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Company.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Madam Hearing Officer, at the

pleasure of the Board, I do note that we have some

elected officials here this morning that are interested

in giving public comment. I don't know -- I understand

some of them have some time limitations. I don't know

if you'd like to consider hearing from them as an

initial matter as opposed to beginning the technical

testimony.

I just note that for your information.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Alvidrez.

Actually, we often do that. Board -- I'm

happy to do that. The Board is happy to do that.

So let's do that first. Let's take some

public comment, particularly from those with time

constraints.

Yes. Thank you, sir.

MR. SHARER: From here or down there?

MS. ORTH: You have a nice loud voice.

THE REPORTER: No. Down here.

MS. PEACOCK: I guess I'm going to state an

initial comment.

The Environmental Improvement Board -- we

wanted to travel here to Farmington so that we could get

comment from everyone here in Farmington. It's
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important that we show up at meetings in the location

that's affected.

And I have to tell you that your riverwalk is

really beautiful. I walked along that last night. I

feel like home.

So thank you for coming here for testimony and

comment.

WILLIAM SHARER

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. SHARER: All right. It's William Sharer,

S-H-A-R-E-R. I'm state senator from District 1, which

is Farmington and a little bit outside the city limits.

Not quite all of the city, but most of the city and a

little bit out of it.

I'm here today as Senator Sharer, but also as

a resident of Farmington who was -- I was born in

Albuquerque, but I essentially grew up here in

Farmington.

I can remember when you could not see

Shiprock, the actual rock, from Farmington High School

because of the haze. It was a frequent occurrence.
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Today if you cannot see Shiprock from the top

of 20th Street outside Farmington High School, it's

because of all of the dust that blew in from Arizona and

California and China. It has nothing to do with the

power plants. The power plants have cleaned up

dramatically over those 30-plus years.

Clearly some of the testimony that I've heard

and just the comments that I've heard in the past relate

to the poor quality of the air around here, but when you

compare 1976 with 2011, wow, what a difference. And I'm

one that actually saw it. I'm one that was disgusted by

what I saw in '76. But love living in San Juan County

today, because this is a great place with a great

environment.

We all want clean air and clean water,

everybody here, but there's a balance, because we also

want the lights to come on when we flip the switch.

Most of the people in San Juan County, in fact, want a

good job. They don't want government assistance. They

want a vibrant economy where they can work.

And the jobs that are produced by the power

plants and the associated coal mines are great jobs.

They're high-paying jobs with great benefits. They're a

great economic engine for not only San Juan County but

the entire State of New Mexico.
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So where's that balance? We could have

perfectly clean air and clean water and freeze to death

in the dark. I think that's bad planning. Of course,

we could have the most brilliant lights in the world and

not be able to breathe and just choke to death. That's

bad planning, too.

There is a balance, and I think that the state

plan achieves that balance. And so I'm here to support

that state plan, not only because it's right for

individual human beings, but it's right for the economy,

it's right for our nation. Energy is what makes modern

life liveable, and if we are willing to shut down

energy, then we're willing to shut down modern life.

Look at the machinery that you have right here

to record this. If we decide to turn off the power

plants across the nation, we're going to go back to

quills, which in some cases might be better, because we

produce less paper. But we also have no lights, we have

no electricity for our computers, we have no

communication.

In fact, we'll live in caves in very short

order if we continue down this path of clean air, clean

water versus -- it's the only goal and there is no

balance. So let's look for that balance, let's achieve

that balance, let's keep those good jobs, let's keep the
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economic engine, and still achieve clean air and clean

water. And that's what the current SIP, I think, does.

That's the end of mine. I also have a

statement here. Representative James Strickler was

going to come today. He can't. He sent this letter.

And I don't know who to give it to or what to do, but

there you go.

I'll give you one of my business cards.

And with that, if you have any questions of

me, I'd be glad to answer them.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

MS. PEACOCK: Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Board questions?

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

MS. RYAN: Thank you very much.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Senator Sharer.

Are there others with time constraints this

morning?

Sir.

THOMAS C. TAYLOR

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name

for me, please.
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MR. TAYLOR: My name is Thomas C. Taylor,

T-H-O-M-A-S T-A-Y-L-O-R.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. TAYLOR: I'm a state representative from

this area. I represent portions of the City of

Farmington north to the Colorado border.

I've been a resident of Farmington for 63

years. And I certainly have watched what's gone on. I

won't repeat anything that's been said earlier.

I think the one comment that I want to make is

that it seems like the process that we have in place for

environmental improvements oftentimes deal with

insignificant issues at all cost. And it's a problem in

an economy especially like we have today. I think it's

important that we concentrate on significant issues,

rather than minimize the amount of money that we have to

spend on those by spending them on insignificant issues.

And I say it's insignificant for this reason.

You know, PNM just three or four years ago had

$320 million worth of improvements to the San Juan

Generating Station. In the area of visibility, they

reduced the NOx emissions by 44 percent, SO2 emissions by

71 percent and particulate by 70-something, as well. A

huge improvement with those items that cause visibility

issues in the area.
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It's my understanding that the improvements

that are -- that we're facing with this issue today will

not be visible, when we're talking about a visible -- a

visibility requirement. I think that's why I call it

insignificant. If it's going to be significant, then

it's worth spending money on. Otherwise, it is not.

It's my contention that we should not do

anything, because PNM has already taken that action by

spending the money and improved the visibility

tremendously in the process that they did and, along

with that, achieved a mercury standard that I don't

think is matched by any other coal-fired plant in the

country.

So I think it's important we consider that in

the process of our environmental deeds in this country.

It's important that we make sure we have a clean

environment, but it's also important that we focus our

energies on those things that are the greatest of our

problems in the process of doing that.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Representative Taylor.

Are there others with time constraints this

morning?

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good morning, ma'am,

members of the Board.
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Commissioner Jim Henderson will be arriving.

We pulled him out of a meeting to get here. He will be

under a time constraint. He should be here within the

next few minutes, and I'm not sure if you can

accommodate him.

MS. ORTH: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay. Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Is there anyone else with a time

constraint or anyone else who is willing to make a

comment while -- before Commissioner Henderson comes?

Please, sir.

MR. GONZALES: Good morning.

THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right

hand, please.

JOSEPH R. GONZALES

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. GONZALES: Joseph R. Gonzales,

G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-S.

I'm a retiree from San Juan Generating

Station. I was the operations manager for several

years, and I'm familiar with the environmental upgrades
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that they've made.

What I wanted to talk to you about is totally

different from what you've heard so far. I'm going to

talk about the costs to the people in regard to their

monthly bills. People have said, hey, it's only $85 a

year if we make the big jump on this environmental

upgrade. What's $85 a year?

Well, since I retired, I've been able to work

with elderly people, hospice people. I'm a volunteer.

I spend a lot of time with folks. And I've had the

opportunity to stand in the state welfare office in line

to get lighting paid, food stamps, fill out papers, for

people that don't have $85 a year, because some people

think, wow.

Also, we could build the economy, we'll throw

10 million, 50 million, 100 million. Hey, 700 million,

let's talk about real money, you know. And then people

just have to pay this $85 a year, and it's okay, because

they can handle it.

Well, I'm only here to talk about those people

who don't and can't handle it, you know. It's really

them that are important to me. So I see the plan

presented by PNM as a great alternative.

Finally, there's a time and place where

there's choices, choices that can be good and actually
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make a difference and also solve the problem. Normally

it's not that way. Normally they're too difficult.

There's too many fights going on between the two sides.

But in this case, it's clear -- it's clearer

to me than maybe some -- that in regard to the bigger

picture, what our past mayor, Tom Taylor said, and Bill

Sharer, I agree, there's a lot of information,

technical, you'll hear all that stuff, but there's a lot

of people the difference between $11 a year and $85 a

year is big.

And it's not just $85 a year, because PNM has

asked for rate increases, and so if they ask for

21 percent and get 11, then next year they ask for some

more. It keeps adding up. And when you have your

parents in the 80s and 90s and you see some of these

folks, and you know how much of a struggle it is, but if

you go to that state welfare office and you line up with

all those other people -- people in this room don't have

to go there much, but in my case, I do.

So that's all I want to say, is wanted to talk

for the people that can't talk for themselves.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Gonzales.

MR. TAYLOR: Dr. Henderson just walked in.

He'll be here in -- well, I think a second or two.

MS. ORTH: All right.
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MR. HENDERSON: Good morning.

THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right hand

for me, please.

JAMES C. HENDERSON

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: And would you state and spell

your full name.

MR. HENDERSON: Yes. Dr. James C. Henderson.

Did you get that?

THE REPORTER: Would you spell the last name.

MR. HENDERSON: H-E-N-D-E-R-S-O-N.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Whenever you're ready --

MR. HENDERSON: Ready?

MS. ORTH: -- please make your statement.

MR. HENDERSON: Thank you.

Well, good morning, and thank you for allowing

me the time to speak.

And I identified myself, and I'm chairman pro

tem of the San Juan County Commission. And today I'm

here to voice my concern in regards to the issue of

regional haze as related to the state's implementation

plan of which we fully support.
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As you know, in New Mexico, coal- and natural

gas-fired power provides more than 70 percent of the

electricity needed by more than a million customers.

I would be remiss if I did not recognize the

efforts PNM has made in its implementation of renewable

energy to meet state requirements. However, even with

this implementation, coal and natural gas will continue

to provide most of the electricity to meet the demands

and needs for the customer.

I also believe that the efforts the plant has

made in emissions reductions, which outperforms the set

limits and health-based emission standards, is an

indicator to the reasons why adopting the state's plan

is reasonable.

I feel it is important that the EIB consider a

fair and balanced approach and look closely at the

overall impact that this decision has on the economic

status, quality of life of its residents and the future

welfare of jobs that accompanies such a decision.

I want to say, too, that I don't know if you

intend to do an impact -- economic impact study, but I

can tell you under the EPA side, and I've got a US

senator that wrote them, saying that anything that was

done, any study, BART whatever, should include the

economic impact on the community.
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And they replied and said yes, that should be

included. But I don't hear people talk a lot about the

impact.

The state's plan brings a balance and

fairness. For example, the state proposal would further

reduce the plant's emissions of NOx by 20 percent, and

SO2 limits would also be reduced by 20 percent. In

addition, the state's proposal would cost customers

seven times less than that of the EPA's proposal.

It is for that reason that the Environmental

Improvement Board should adopt the draft State

Implementation Plan as proposed by the New Mexico

Environment Department. We support this plan because it

strikes the appropriate balance between minimizing cost

to the customer and further protects the environment.

We do not support the federal plan as it would

increase the average PNM residential customer's

electricity bill seven times more than the state's plan.

And furthermore, the impact to local governments,

schools, et cetera, would also create even a greater

financial strain in already woeful budgets.

I think we've got to get this into a balance

and understand that if you're looking from the outside,

and we're looking at economic development, don't think

for a minute that a site locator -- they send the big
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companies on location out, they look very carefully at

what's happening in your state, and we can't be very

proud of what's happening in the State of New Mexico.

So I just mention that.

From an employment standpoint, the impact

would be even more catastrophic. We're just estimating.

I hope you folks will make that more certain. An

estimated 4,000 jobs has already been lost in this

county over the past three years.

Now, that's what I'm getting to. We can't

stand that. And we've got both of those fire --

coal-fired power plants out there under attack, and

we've got to get somewhat reasonable, or you're going to

have such an impact on this community that we won't be

able to recover.

The San Juan Generating Station and the San

Juan Coal Mine that supplies fuel to the generating

station are major employers in the Four Corners and

contribute to the economic health of both the state and

the region. The power plants in San Juan County are our

two largest taxpayers. The San Juan plant purchases an

estimated $30 million in materials and supplies each

year and operates approximately 122 million in contracts

for outside services.

Our concern for the federal plan is that it is
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only expected to perceivably improve visibility in one

of sixteen parks and wilderness areas, which given the

cost is not reasonable.

In conclusion, I ask the Environmental

Improvement Board strongly consider the state's plan.

As a local government, we are simply asking for balance,

fairness and consideration to all of the impacts this

decision will have.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Dr. Henderson.

Is there anyone else who would like to make a

public comment before we hear from San Juan Coal

Company?

Ma'am.

ELOISE BROWN

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. BROWN: Eloise, E-L-O-I-S-E, Brown.

THE REPORTER: And would you speak loudly.

Thank you.

MS. BROWN: Good morning, everybody.

Okay. Dooda Desert Rock is an ad hoc Navajo
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public interest -- Navajo public interest association

that has formed in December of 2006 in response to an

invasion of the residents of Chaco Rio and Ram Springs

area by agents of a large corporation that was engaged

in exploratory activities on the lands of the Navajo

members. Association members confronted the corporation

in court.

Can you guys hear me? Okay.

And since then, Dooda Desert Rock has

consistently advocated for the interests of the Navajo

against corporate interests, of their own government,

where action has been proposed or taken to injure the

public health and welfare of the people of the area.

The core problem. Dooda Desert Rock joins

others, notably those who want to return to the Four

Corners area to pristine air quality, as befits it, and

those who want to make the area attractive for visitors.

People do not want to see Shiprock, the Four Corners

Monument, Ute Mountain, Mesa Verde and other attractions

of the area.

There is a serious discussion of the

possibility of making the Shiprock and its surrounding

area a new state park, but there is general recognition

that existing air quality mars the attractiveness of the

area.
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There is a bigger problem than that. Air

pollution and regional haze are only symptom of larger

problems. I will return again and again until someone

listens and responds to the documentation that tells us

that the haze we are talking about is, in fact, part of

the public health hazard.

The fact that the Four Corners Power Plant and

the San Juan Generating Station endanger the health of

the Navajos was documented in July, 2006 report of the

United States Geological Survey, identified as an air

quality issue for the proposed Desert Rock Power Plant

by the San Francisco office of the Environmental

Protection Agency, with follow-up recommendations that

were ignored by the Bureau of Indian Affairs in handling

the air permit, the confirmed -- and confirmed by the --

by a professional paper of seven academics in a research

article in the Journal of Environmental and Public

Health, 2010.

Despite the USGS report, a warning by the

regional EPA office and confirmation of the public

health hazard, no agency of the United States or the

State of New Mexico has paid attention to the issue and

done follow-up queries to the Shiprock Indian Health

Service hospital to confirm the situation for action.

Dooda Desert Rock filed a discrimination
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action against Environmental Protection Agency for

failure to act on its knowledge of the health risk to

Navajos, and its response -- and not only Navajos, but

people live -- that live in the area -- and its response

was that it can discriminate against Navajo under Title

VI of the United States Civil Rights Act of 1964

because, although it requires the agency to deal with

the private persons who discriminate, the law does not

prohibit its acts of discrimination.

The agency's environmental justice programs

are only feel good publicity efforts, and they do

Navajos no good. The finding is that the two power

plants pollute the air around Shiprock and cause

respiratory illnesses for Shiprock residents under the

age of five and over the age of fifty-six, are more than

twice as likely to need treatment for respiratory

problems than the rest of the area residents.

However, Shiprock residents are more than five

times as likely to be seen at the Northern Navajo

Medical Center for respiratory complaints than residents

of other nearby communities.

Mother Earth and tradition. There is no

recognition in international law that Mother Earth has

standing to complain of environmental hazards, and Dooda

Desert Rock complains to you in her name that this is no
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joke, and there are initiatives and the United Nations

to declare the rights of Mother Earth.

Navajos know that our Changing Woman is a

manifestation of the Mother Earth and the fundamental

laws proclaimed a natural law -- the natural law rights

she has.

Regional haze degrades Mother Earth, and it

shames her. It must be prevented.

In my conclusion, we of Dooda Desert Rock,

speaking with Mother Earth and with residents of the

Shiprock area whose health is jeopardized, call upon the

Air Quality Bureau or the Environmental Improvement

Board -- Department to take all necessary action to

abate haze in our area.

Thank you very much.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Brown.

May I have your written statement?

Is there anyone else who would like to offer

public comment before we hear from San Juan Coal?

If I forgot to say it before, please do sign

in. The sign-in sheets are at the door back there. We

use the sign-in sheets as evidence of public

participation.

Sir.
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GORDON GLASS

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

name, please.

GORDON GLASS: Gordon Glass, G-L-A-S-S.

Thank you for having this hearing in

Farmington. I do wish that you would use a microphone.

Some of us older, less well-hearing people have a hard

time, and there's one right behind you, if they could

set it up, and it would be helpful, for future speakers.

I'm standing here today because I assume that

each of you is on this Board because some part of your

life you have decided to operate in an excellent and a

long-term fashion, that you did the work necessary to be

able to be who you are and what you do, you put in the

time, and you put in the effort, spent the money to

become excellent at something.

And I think that actually is the choice we're

talking about. As we talk about 40 more years of this

plant, do we want it to be marginal, or do we want it to

be excellent? Do we want to do the cheapest thing, or

do we want to do the best thing? Do we want to pay

ahead for the people coming? Because I know that I'm
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not going to be here in 2050. Do we want to pay ahead

for the people coming that we'll have the best possible

use?

We are dependent on coal and coal-fired

electricity right now. That's a reality that we have

created in this way. But change is coming, and it seems

to me like the choice before you is whether you want to

do something of excellence or whether we want to take

the marginal way out.

I don't minimize, like some people, the effect

of this, the health effects, visibility effects. Those

are real. And we're talking about 40 years of it. And

we can do better. And so the -- the least effective is

not the best for the long-term. We want to do the -- we

want to do the best, I know for my grandchildren and

children beyond. But also, we need to realize that

we're going to pay one way or the other on the

transition of energy.

I can say personally I've invested in rooftop

solar, and I'm a clean energy producer. I produce twice

what I use, and I'm willing to bear that cost. And I'm

able to bear that cost. I understand that. And many

other people can, and some other people can't.

But the reality is the difference in cost here

is something that the society can absorb. And the
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company should absorb part of that, as well.

And so what I would ask you to do is consider

that excellence and long-term thinking is a tremendous

issue for our country, and you're being faced with just

one of the many decisions that need to be done.

I'd like to say that the city of Farmington

for more than 20 years did not raise water rates,

because people don't like rates being raised. And then,

as the infrastructure began to crumble, they had to

raise water rights considerably. And people are paying

a lot for water right now. This week our golf course is

paying a lot for water use right now.

But part of that was because we didn't buy

into excellence over time. We fought for and we sought

cheap solutions.

And so I ask you to consider that these are

important factors here and that doing the best does

cost. And we are in a society like no other society in

the world in that we have -- we can afford to do the

best, like, for the most part, we've always done.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Glass.

Sir.
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MIKE EISENFELD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. EISENFELD: Mike Eisenfeld,

E-I-S-E-N-F-E-L-D.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. EISENFELD: EIB, thank you, and welcome to

Farmington. I appreciate your being here.

My name is Mike Eisenfeld. I live with my

family here in Farmington. I work for an organization

called the San Juan Citizens Alliance.

We're a -- here in Farmington, we're a dynamic

community with multi-jurisdictional issues. We, of

course, have the four states, three EPA regions, tribal

lands. We have a lot going on here. There's a lot of

us who are invested in our community.

Clean Air Act compliance and a regional haze

program, what we're talking about at today's hearing, is

an issue that first came up in 1999, a sufficient time

for PNM to comply with the regional haze program.

The most recent State Implementation Plan

doesn't meet the Best Available Retrofit Technology
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requirements. Selective noncatalytic reduction is not

Best Available Retrofit Technology. The 20 to

40 percent reduction in NOx, nitrogen oxides, is

insufficient.

PNM has recently filed their intentions to

keep San Juan Generating Station online until 2053.

With that should come a requirement to step up pollution

reduction. Again, the San Juan Generating Station is

18th in the nation in nitrogen oxide emissions, which

has a dramatic impact on regional haze and public

health.

Due to the fact that we're relied on for

50 percent of PNM's electricity with the San Juan

Generating Station for the state, we expect a commitment

from PNM to address some of the issues that have been

happening for decades.

Ozone attainment is very possible for San Juan

County. We need to address the NOx emissions from San

Juan Generating Station as part of the ozone issue that

could come into play as soon as July of 2011.

We request that the EIB take an honest

appraisal of ways to address equity issues of San Juan

Generating Station and the real costs to our community

in continued reliance on coal.

Thank you very much.
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MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Eisenfeld.

Ma'am.

MS. COLLINS: Here's a copy for each of the

commission.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

DEANNA COLLINS

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MS. COLLINS: Deanna Collins, C-O-L-L-I-N-S.

And I'm with the League of Women Voters of La Plata

County.

And I'll be reading a statement for the

league.

The League of Women Voters of La Plata County

in Colorado urges the Environmental Improvement Board to

reject the New Mexico Environment Department's revisions

to the Regional Haze Rule in the New Mexico State

Implementation Plan and to support the EPA's plan

requiring the San Juan Generating Station to install SCR

technology to reduce the plant's nitrogen oxide

emissions by 83 percent.

Installation of the SCR technology at the San
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Juan Generating Station would improve the health and

economic opportunities, provide cleaner air and address

environmental justice for people in the Four Corners,

many of whom are low income and live below the poverty

level.

La Plata County borders San Juan County, New

Mexico, in which the San Juan Generating Station is

located. Prevailing winds carry pollutants from the

coal-fired power plant to our county in Southwest

Colorado, as well as all counties of the Four Corners

region and four sovereign tribes.

The proposed revisions to New Mexico's good

neighbor provisions of the State Implementation Plan of

the Clean Air Act would reduce haze significantly less

than the EPA proposal. The SCR technology proposed by

the EPA would have almost a four fold NOx control

effectiveness over the SNCR technology proposed in the

revised State Implementation Plan.

Nitrogen oxide, a major cause of haze, is also

a precursor to ground level ozone, which is regulated by

the EPA. Should the EPA lower their ozone standard this

summer, La Plata County could be in nonattainment.

The San Juan Generating Station is one of the

major sources of nitrogen oxide in the area's air shed.

Our EPA region, state, nor county has any regulatory
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authority over the pollutants that are in our air from

New Mexico, including the power plant, and we could

potentially have difficulty coming into attainment

because of pollutants that are not in our jurisdiction.

A decision factor used for the proposed

revisions was economic information provided by PNM of

New Mexico. They estimated a rate increase of $82 per

year per residential ratepayer from the installation of

SCR technology.

A recent study, which is referred to in the

letter, on the health impacts from the San Juan

Generating Station estimated that in 2010 33 deaths, 50

heart attacks, 600 asthma attacks and 23 hospital

admissions resulted from pollution from the power plant.

The resulting health care costs were estimated at 255

million for that year.

This figure breaks down to over 600 per person

cost per capita in the 10 counties in the Four Corners

region, which is significantly larger than the estimated

rate increase, and is incurred by residents that receive

little or no benefit from the electricity produced at

the San Juan Generating Station.

National parks and monuments, wilderness areas

and forests bring tremendous economic benefit to the

Four Corners region. We rely on tourism and natural
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resources they provide for long-term economic growth and

sustainability. With increased oil and gas development,

overgrazing and prolonged drought, combined with

coal-fired power plant pollution, we have seen a

continual deterioration in our air quality.

The League of Women Voters of La Plata County

urges the New Mexico Environmental Board as a good

neighbor to require the most stringent of technologies

to be installed at the San Juan Generating Station. We

also urge you to promote cleaner forms of energy in New

Mexico that encourage environmental justice and overall

health of the region.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Collins.

Is there anyone else who would like to make

comment?

Sir.

JAMES CRAWFORD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified further as follows:

FURTHER DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. CRAWFORD: I'm James Crawford, J-A-M-E-S

C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D.
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Madam Chairman and Board members, I spoke to

you yesterday, and I just couldn't help myself, I had to

add one thing today. So what I'm going to talk about is

in my written comments, but I just need to bring this

up.

The main thrust of what we're being asked to

do is aimed at NOx emissions. And I -- if you look

closely in the record, you will find that NOx is a very

minor part of all the pollution at -- measured at the

monitoring sites.

You can look at NMED Exhibit 11, Figures 71

through 715. For instance, on the worst days, NOx only

makes up 8 percent of the pollutants at Bandelier and

only 7.1 at Wheeler Peak Wilderness. And it's the same

for almost all other Class I areas.

So I guess my question is why is the only

action proposed in this plan one of using a sledgehammer

to drive a thumb tack?

We're spending a huge amount of money on a

very insignificant part of the problem. The plan isn't

really addressing all of the major -- if you look at

those pie charts in the plan, you know, the major

pollutants are not NOx. And what PNM is being asked to

do is just further address the NOx problem.

So, you know, I think we're addressing the
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wrong problem.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Crawford.

Anyone else?

BILL HAGLER

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. HAGLER: Bill Hagler, H-A-G-L-E-R.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. HAGLER: Good morning.

I'm here to talk to you today about the EIB

Case 11-01(R), the haze proposal for San Juan Generating

Station.

I'm a small business owner in Farmington.

I've lived here for 42 years. I served 25 years on the

Farmington Public Utility Commission. I'm a former

member of New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board,

and currently serve as vice-president for the New Mexico

Utility Shareholders Alliance.

I share this information so you will

understand that I have both a vested interest and

knowledge of the decision before you.
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PNM fully upgraded the San Juan Station in

2009 and significantly lowered the plant's emission of

nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, mercury, particulate

matter. The fact that the EPA would be here less than

two years later to impose further regulation on this

recently upgraded plant is troubling, especially at a

time when so many of us are struggling.

However, if regional haze must be addressed, I

strongly urge you to adopt the state's plan. The

technology difference between this plan and the EPA's

plan, which is more -- less cost effective, will produce

a negligible difference in the haze situation being

addressed, but at staggering difference in costs.

The EPA Region 6 plan for San Juan has -- San

Juan Generating Station has an estimated cost of $750

million to $1 billion, or at least $85 a year for the

average customer, compared to $77 million, or $12, for

the state's plan.

In addition, the San Juan Generating Station

and San Juan Coal Mine who supplies the fuel are both

major employers, as have been pointed out in this

region, and they contribute to the economic health of

our area. The power plant and the mine employs nearly

1,000 people full-time, at good -- good wages.

The plant pays millions of dollars each year
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in government, tribal and property taxes, as well as

coal royalties. San Juan also purchases 30 million in

materials and supplies, 122 million in contracts for

outside services.

So this is a major economic engine in this

area, as Dr. Henderson pointed out.

I strongly urge you to adopt the State

Implementation Plan. It will help preserve the jobs and

the economy in this region. While being more sensitive

to the costs, it will ultimately be borne by the

ratepayers.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Hagler.

Anyone else like to make public comment?

There will be one more invitation after we've

heard from San Juan Coal Company.

Sir.

DOYLE MEYER

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. MEYER: Doyle Meyer, D-O-Y-L-E M-E-Y-E-R.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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MR. MEYER: Well, I'll be short.

Recently the Tennessee Valley Authority

announced that under pressure from the EPA they were

closing 18 units. And I don't know how they're planning

on replacing the electricity from those 18 units. If

they replace it with nuclear energy, it will cut the

rates to the end user about in half.

There are a couple of plants being built right

now in the south. If they go to natural gas plants,

their rates will be about two to three times what it

would be for coal. If they go to wind energy, it will

also be two to three times more expensive to produce

than coal energy. If they go to solar somehow or

another, it will be four to eight times more expensive

to produce electricity from a solar source than it would

be from a coal-fired plant.

I'm retired, and I would really hate to see my

rates double, triple, quadruple because of actions that

force a plant to close, like it looks like the APS plant

is going to be doing.

And I just recommend that we go with the state

plan, simply because it will probably allow the plants

to continue in operation for some time to come. If they

close -- if actions on the part of the Board requires

the plants to close some of the units, it will
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inevitably cause our rates to increase without, in my

mind at least, significantly improving the air quality

in this area.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Meyer.

Anyone else?

All right. Mr. Roybal, we'll turn to San Juan

Coal Company.

MR. ROYBAL: Good morning, Madam Hearing

Officer, members of the Board, and Madam Chairman.

Charles Roybal from BHP Billiton and San Juan

Coal Company.

Welcome to San Juan County and Farmington, New

Mexico. I really hope that you're enjoying your time

here and this wonderful facility, San Juan Community

College. We're very happy to host you and have you

here. The members of our community, our leaders and --

feel it's very important that you are able to do that.

San Juan Coal Company will have two witnesses,

and I'd like to have them presented one at a time.

Our first witness is Mr. John Cline.

THE REPORTER: I will ask you both to raise

your right hands.

(JOHN CLINE and NORMAN BENALLY were duly sworn

or affirmed.)
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THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. CLINE: My name is John Cline, J-O-H-N

C-L-I-N-E.

JOHN CLINE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ROYBAL:

Q. Mr. Cline, did you prepare written prefiled

testimony in this case?

A. I did.

Q. Have you had -- for whom did you provide that

testimony?

A. For the San Juan Coal Company.

Q. And have you had the opportunity to review

that testimony, and do you have any corrections or

addition to that testimony?

A. I have, and I have no revisions to offer.

Q. Do you adopt that written testimony as your

own?

A. I do.

Q. Could you give the Board a little bit of your

background and credentials?

A. Sure.

Madam Hearing Officer, Madam Chairman and
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other members of the Board, as I said, my name is John

Cline. I'm a lawyer, licensed in the commonwealth of

Virginia. I have a solo practice that focuses on energy

and environmental issues, with a particular emphasis on

Clean Air Act matters.

I have a JD degree from the University of

Richmond and a bachelor of science in chemical

engineering from the University of Virginia.

I've been involved in Clean Air Act matters

for over 30 years. You can see I've got the gray hair

and lack of hair to prove it. In that capacity, I

represent primarily mining, industrial, electrical and

transportation sectors of the economy.

With respect to regional haze, from 2004 to

2009, I represented a coalition of large industrial and

utility companies in the Southeast with operations

throughout that portion of the United States. I have

also represented individual clients on matters related

to visibility protection, including the determination of

BART and reasonable progress.

MR. ROYBAL: With that, Madam Hearing Officer,

we offer Mr. Cline's testimony as evidence in this

hearing.

MS. ORTH: All right.

And he's ready to stand for questions?
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MR. ROYBAL: Yes. Well, no. He will

summarize his testimony. We were just offering --

MS. ORTH: The exhibit.

MR. ROYBAL: -- the exhibit. Yes.

MS. ORTH: Yes, sir.

Are there objections?

Hearing none, it's admitted.

Thank you.

(Exhibit SJCC B admitted into evidence.)

Q. (BY MR. ROYBAL) Mr. Cline, would you please

summarize your written testimony.

A. The purpose of my testimony on behalf of San

Juan Coal Company is to strongly encourage the Board's

adoption of the state plan for BART for the San Juan

Generating Station.

And in doing so, we hope to help the Board

understand that Congress delegated broad discretion to

each state to account for local conditions in

circumstances when the state determined BART on a

source-specific basis by balancing several factors that

are designated in the statute.

Now, yesterday the Board heard public comments

such as the following:

The proposed SIP is on shaky grounds.

It conflicts with EPA's findings.
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The Department is not using good science, nor

is it using good policy.

The Department must have data that quantifies

a balance between the cost and the health impacts.

Well, each of those statements is simply

wrong, because they're based on a premise that really

isn't supported by the Clean Air Act.

However, instead of focusing so much on EPA's

BART determination and how that was made, we believe

that the Department focus has been correctly based on

what Congress intended it to do, and they determined it

appropriately.

I have to take an aside here and just address

best available control technology -- Best Available

Retrofit Technology.

And there is a rather broad misperception that

best in that terminology means maximum emission

reductions. That is not the case. Best available

control technology means the best technology selected on

a case-by-case basis for a specific source considering

five specific factors that Congress identified.

Now, Congress enacted the visability

protection program in 1977. And it's not well known,

however, that in 1980 EPA promulgated visibility

regulations. These were addressed toward what is called
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reasonably attributable visibility impairment, or RAVI.

But it's important to note that EPA promulgated these

regulations in keeping with the statute, and they even

had BART guidelines at that particular time.

Now, there's a fundamental principal of

statutory construction that most courts will give more

weight to an agency's interpretation of the statute when

that interpretation is made contemporaneously with the

statutory provisions that were enacted.

And that's particularly meaningful here,

because if you go back in history and look at how EPA

addressed this particular program in the early 1980s, it

provides some revealing illustrations of how BART should

be determined.

Unfortunately, in the current determinations

for BART and the BART guidelines, EPA has not continued

to emphasize the congressional preference for states to

make BART determinations. So that if you look back at

some of the statements that EPA made in 1980, and will

juxtapose those to what EPA's done in the future.

I believe you have copies of my direct

testimony, so I don't plan on reading all of it, but I

must read a couple statements that EPA made.

For example, "The visibility regulations give

the States a great deal of flexibility in determining
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the measures they choose to secure -- to assure

reasonable progress. As the Act requires, EPA has

provided measures for the States to consider, but left

the actual 'mix' of those measures adopted to the

States' discretion."

So there is no mandate under the Clean Air Act

that it must be done a certain way.

EPA further said that the state retains final

authority for the development of the SIP, BART

determinations and implementation of the visibility

regulations.

Now, as I mentioned, Congress, of course,

mandated that there be five specific factors that must

be considered when determining BART. To that end, I

want you to pay attention to what EPA said about those

factors.

"It is, of course, not possible to provide

more specific guidance on how a State should balance the

various BART factors while simultaneously giving the

State more flexibility to strike the balance it deems

appropriate in light of local and site-specific

considerations. A strictly quantitative approach,

however, is not necessarily a better alternative.

"The procedures outlined in the 1980 BART

Guidelines allow States to consider local conditions and
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circumstances in their BART decisionmaking. This

recognizes that States have the most complete knowledge

of local factors that would affect the BART decision."

So in other words, there is no single right

answer for BART, but it's clear that under the law

Congress very much wanted the states to make the

determination.

Now, that determination is supposed to be made

by a reasonable balance by the state. That's not to say

that EPA or some other third party could also come up

with their reasonable balance. But the prerogative is

that the state -- it is not up to EPA to second-guess,

nor other third parties to second-guess that

determination.

Yesterday, the Board also heard the following

public comment, "SCR is mandated and required by the

Clean Air Act."

Well, that statement is flatly wrong. There

is nothing within the Clean Air Act provisions 169A or

169B that would compel such a conclusion.

So let's briefly consider some of the basic

flaws of EPA's analysis of how it determined BART.

EPA's determination has not resulted from a

balancing of statutory factors in any meaningful way

that reflect New Mexico's particular circumstances and
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concerns.

EPA's determination has not been substantively

informed by any source-specific or site-specific

matters.

EPA's BART determination did not even consider

potential visibility improvement in all of the Class I

areas in New Mexico.

In short, EPA's BART determination consists of

a very narrow analytical methodology that seems designed

to produce a predetermined result.

In effect, it's no secret that EPA would like

to have SCR installed on every coal-fired power plant

that refuses to shut down.

EPA's so-called five-factor BART analysis

really degrades into an analysis of cost effectiveness.

And yesterday there was a lot of emphasis and discussion

about cost effectiveness in terms of dollars per ton.

Now, that is a number that EPA typically uses.

They require it in the BART guidelines. But stop and

think about it. Dollars per ton of pollutant reduced

says nothing about the effectiveness of visibility

improvement. I mean, for my money, I would like to see

dollars spent per deciview of visibility improvement.

But the BART guidelines very much emphasize

dollar per ton. In fact, that is not the sole, but the
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very utmost primary determinant in EPA's BART

determination. Now, the Department used that same

metric, but fortunately, they didn't put all their eggs

in one basket.

On the other hand, the Department's

methodology for determining BART is a measured

application of EPA's BART guidelines which reflects an

appropriate weighting of the statutory factors to

accommodate local conditions and circumstances just as

Congress intended.

EPA's BART determination, for example, has

been performed in a vacuum, whereas the state's

determination is just a part of a much broader regional

haze plan that integrates that BART determination into

the rest of their planning.

And make no mistake about it, this is not a

one-shot deal. As Ms. Uhl testified yesterday, this is

a very young program. There will be a series of

planning steps, and the Board will have other bites of

the apple for Public Service New Mexico as well as a

variety of other sources.

Contrary to EPA's one-size-fits-all approach

to determining BART, the Department's consideration of

statutory factors have been weighed according to

source-specific matters, in particular, the relative
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levels of adverse economic impacts on residents of New

Mexico and the specific challenges posed by this

particular BART retrofit for a forced draft boiler, such

as those at San Juan.

I believe that the Department should be

applauded for applying the statutory factors in the

manner in which Congress originally intended.

So in conclusion, Congress had a clear vision

of how BART should be determined. To that end, the

Department's BART determination fulfills that vision.

EPA's determination, on the other hand, does not. For

that reason, San Juan Coal Company strongly encourages

you to adopt the state's determination.

Thank you for letting me speak to you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Cline.

MR. ROYBAL: We offer the witness for

questions.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Mr. Grantham, do you have questions of

Mr. Cline?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Alvidrez?

MR. ALVIDREZ: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Rose?

MR. ROSE: No questions.
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MS. ORTH: Anyone else?

The Board.

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MS. ORTH: Member Ryan.

MS. RYAN: Mr. Cline, thank you for being

here. I appreciate the congressional and regulatory

history that you've outlined to us for the Board. I

think that is important when we're looking at

implementing regulations for our state and the -- you

know, the intent that went behind them many years ago.

I know that you have had involvement in these

SIPs with other states, and so I'm particularly wanting

to know -- you've termed EPA's one-size-fits-all

proposal, and I'd like you to discuss that as

specifically as you can on -- is the proposal that the

EPA has outlined for the San Juan Generating Station the

same that it has done -- I mean, is it pretty much the

same as it's tried to do in other states, or, you know,

is it -- is it different?

Is it putting New Mexico in the same box with

other states?

MR. CLINE: Yes, ma'am, it is. It very much

is.

One of the frustrating parts about this
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regulatory program is you have the regulations, and you

have a series of informal guidance memoranda issued by

EPA staff that purports to implement the regulations,

but in actuality goes far beyond what the regulations

and certainly what the statute requires.

Now, EPA will politely say, "The states have

discretion. They make the determination. But remember,

we have to approve your SIP."

So there's that thumb that they hold on the

states, and they make no bones about a strong preference

for SCR.

And they support that determination primarily

through their cost analyses that comes up with this

bogus dollar per ton figure that is reasonable in EPA's

eyes. It's -- there's no bright line test, and the

states have no idea what it might be until they make the

determination, then they hear from EPA.

But I would say that in every case that I'm

aware of any state that has made a BART determination

for a coal-fired power plant that has not proposed SCR

has received considerable push back from EPA.

MS. RYAN: So you're saying that the SIPs that

have been proposed to the EPA have not been approved or

in a delayed process of approval or --

MR. CLINE: That's correct. Yes.
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MS. RYAN: Okay.

MR. CLINE: The whole regulatory program for

regional haze and BART has this terrible history of

start and stop, start and stop. I mean, the statute was

enacted in '77, and here we're just getting around to

regional haze regulations in 1999 that were changed in

2005.

But there are no -- well, there may be a

couple BART determinations that EPA has approved to

date, but curiously, they're approving not the SIP, but

just the BART determination that selects SCR as the EPA

prefers.

That's not really logical to me. It's

supposed to be a regional haze SIP, and why you would

sever the BART from everything else -- I'm not even sure

if that's lawful. But again, I -- at the risk of

sounding paranoid, I know that EPA wants us to, and if

the state has offered that, they'll approve that.

MS. RYAN: So do you think the PNM and NMED's,

you know, SIP proposal is a bit pointless, or do you

think it's worth trying?

MR. CLINE: Oh, I think under the

circumstances it's worth trying. The gentleman that

offered the public comment earlier about this focus on

NOx really is kind of misleading, because nitrates are a
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very small part of the visibility problem in New Mexico.

But having said that, the state does have a

mandate to come up with a regional haze SIP for the

period from 2004 to 2018. And the one thing that's

clear they must do is make some BART determination for

NOx emissions. As we heard yesterday, the equivalent for

SO2 is already incorporated within the regional backstop

trading program.

So yes, the step for NOx BART for PNM is

probably appropriate. I think they should be given all

the credit in the world for the reasonable progress that

they achieved with the recent retrofits that were made.

That's a big step and, in many people's minds, could be

BART in and of itself. But as I understand, PNM has

agreed to take the next step and go with SNCR.

And keeping in mind that there will be another

regional haze plan, another regional haze plan, another

and another.

MS. RYAN: So is my understanding correct

that -- I know that there's like an August deadline for

EPA approval. If we were to implement the SIP, could

they approve it? And you're saying they could approve

it in part and not in part. And if so, would our state

be given time to amend or revise our SIP and resubmit

it?
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MR. CLINE: You know, that's -- I can't really

answer that question. That's going to be an EPA

determination. I mean, clearly the way the law reads,

the State of New Mexico and a whole bunch of other

states missed a deadline for submitting a regional haze

request.

And that started a two-year clock once the EPA

made that finding. If they didn't submit it by then,

then EPA says we could step in and propose a FIP,

presumably a regional haze FIP, and not just BART.

What latitude the State of New Mexico may have

vis-a-vis the court settlement that established the

state, I believe it's now August of this year, for the

SIP -- I don't know how much flexibility there is.

MS. RYAN: Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Member Bryce.

MR. BRYCE: Mr. Cline, in your opinion, is

the -- if the SIP were to be submitted, is there

anything that you think should be further evaluated or

changed in the SIP to less offend the EPA?

MR. CLINE: I really can't think of anything.

I mean, I know they read -- made -- EPA made some rather

substantive comments, and I've seen the Department's

step-by-step response to those. I thought those

responses were thorough and appropriate.
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MR. BRYCE: Okay. That's all I have.

Thanks.

MS. ORTH: Other --

MR. VOLKERDING: I just want to make a

comment, and then maybe you can follow up on a comment

on that. It kind of brings a little bit of this

together.

Is -- in the rule, EPA developed what they

call presumptive BART limits based on a source of --

what kind of source it is and what kind of fuel. And

under EPA's own presumptive BART, the limits that are

being set forth by the state SIP are less than EPA's

presumptive BART.

So I just throw that out there. If we're

concerned about what EPA might do, we are at least --

the state's plan is less than presumptive BART. And I

don't know if you want to follow up on that.

MR. CLINE: Well, that's a great point. And

I've seen the presumptive BART limits used for you and

against you dependent upon where you are on that line.

The BART guidelines are not the Holy Grail.

The statute says EPA must establish BART guidelines for

power plants greater than 750 megawatts. But those are

guidelines and don't really carry the weight of

regulations, in my mind. And so there should be some
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flexibility.

But the state would have reason to believe

that if it selected a limit that met the presumptive

limit, that should satisfy the agency.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thanks.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

MS. PEACOCK: Yes.

Mr. Cline, just to clarify, are you saying

that EPA has never adopted any SNCR BARTs or SIPs from

states?

MR. CLINE: I'm certainly not familiar with

any, not for a coal-fired power plant. No. EPA's SIP

approval for regional haze SIPs -- you could probably

count them on one hand, and those came up yesterday, and

I believe the Black & Veatch people mentioned Idaho, or

maybe it was Oregon. Yeah. And there's a handful of

others that EPA has proposed to approve the BART

determination.

In each case, I believe that is SCR.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

Other Board questions?

Mr. Roybal, do you have any redirect?

MR. ROYBAL: Just a couple of clarifications,

Madam Hearing Officer.
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REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ROYBAL:

Q. Mr. Cline, any reference in your testimony

to BACT, I think you were talking about BART in every

other instance?

A. That's correct. Yeah. If I said BACT -- as

was pointed out yesterday, that is a new source review

terminology. BART, with the R, stands for retrofit,

obviously, for existing sources.

Q. And finally, it is your conclusion that you

would support the adoption of the NMED proposal for

this --

A. Very much so.

MR. ROYBAL: Okay. Nothing further.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Is there any reason not to excuse Mr. Cline?

MR. GRANTHAM: Madam Hearing Officer.

MS. ORTH: Yes.

MR. GRANTHAM: I just had one follow-up

question.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. GRANTHAM:

Q. Mr. Cline, in your testimony, you referred to

there being SIP revisions down the road, every five

years, and I think you used the phrase "another bite at
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the apple."

And my question is is it your opinion that

this Board will have another chance to revisit the San

Juan Generating Station in particular with regard to

regional haze?

A. Oh, yeah, very much so. They won't be able to

make another BART determination for NOx, but the -- the

Board would have the obligation to adopt future regional

haze SIPs that achieve reasonable progress in the

future, and if the Department determines that reasonable

progress may be achieved through further reductions for

San Juan Generating Station, that certainly is the goal.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Anything else?

FURTHER EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MR. CASCIANO: I do have one more question.

Mr. Cline, we've heard allusion to health

effects from emissions, and I wondered if you could talk

about how that is supposed to be considered with the

BART determination and whether the Department has done

that properly in your opinion, per the Clean Air Act for

this application?

MR. CLINE: Sure. The regional haze program

is kind of different from most Clean Air Act programs.
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The Clean Air Act is focused on protection of public

health and welfare. But there is a visibility problem

that Congress wanted to address. And so the focus of

this proceeding is on meeting the statutory and

regulatory requirements for regional haze.

Now, to the extent that there are collateral

benefits, such as reduced health effects, you know,

that's just all the more reason to adopt that type of

plan.

But I think it's inappropriate to compare

regional haze plans on which has the alleged better

health improvement part. You need really to stick to

the act and five factors, and health effects weren't one

of them. Congress said there's five factors to

consider.

And then if your reduction program does

achieve health benefits, which is -- the Department's

does -- it just doesn't achieve as many as some people

would like. Okay. But that should not be viewed as a

black mark against the Department's plan.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay. Thank you.

MS. RYAN: In follow-up, so what you're saying

is our focus -- you're saying that our Board's focus

should be on visibility as to regional haze in

consideration of the five factors only.
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MR. CLINE: Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Very much so.

I mean, there are other Clean Air Act programs

like New Source Performance Standards and NESHAPs and

PSD where you do focus on health impacts. But here it's

visibility and the five factors that Congress said each

state should balance.

MR. CASCIANO: And is one of those factors --

five factors public health?

MR. CLINE: No, sir. No. There's the cost of

compliance, the nonair quality environmental benefits.

What else? The remaining useful life of the plant, the

air control technologies that are installed on the plant

currently, and the visibility improvements that would be

gained by any BART.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

MS. RYAN: Sorry. I have one more.

In your familiarity with up-and-coming

technologies, obviously, right now we're looking at SCR

and SNCR.

Is there -- do you expect that in five years,

when our Board is required to revisit SIP for regional

haze, that there would be more technology for us to look

at at that time? Or are you familiar -- are you

supposing?

I know that's a big guess.
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MR. CLINE: Yeah. I -- I would have to not

venture on that. I don't really get into a lot of the

technical control technologies as much, and it's more in

the legal aspects.

MS. ORTH: Member Fulfer.

MR. FULFER: I have one question on the EPA

calculations.

Do you feel like they're -- you were talking

about them being flawed in certain ways, but one of them

is -- I'm curious if they figured in the retrofit versus

new construction, which retrofit is usually a higher

cost? Do you feel like they based that just on new

construction?

MR. CLINE: No, sir, I don't. I think the

intent was to quantify cost for a retrofit. And as was

discussed the other day, they are heavily married to

EPA's OAQPS Cost Control Manual, and that's kind of

their Bible. And for the most part, if the cost

analysis in these factors aren't in that manual, they're

somehow deemed not relevant.

For my money, I would rather take the cost

estimate of an engineering design firm that does that

for a living, who has to stand behind that cost estimate

if they're selected to build a plant.

MS. ORTH: Anything else?
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Anything else at all before we excuse

Mr. Cline?

Thank you very much, Mr. Cline.

MR. ROYBAL: Madam Hearing Officer, we'd call

Norman Benally as our next witness.

NORMAN BENALLY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ROYBAL:

Q. Mr. Benally, you've been sworn in.

Did you prepare prefiled written testimony in

this case?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And have you had the opportunity to review

that testimony? Do you have any corrections or

additions?

A. I don't have any.

Q. Could you tell us a little bit about your

background and credentials?

A. Sure. I haven't been -- I've been employed

with BHP Billiton since 1972. I was originally hired on

as a janitor back in 1972. Some of the past positions

that I've held are the manager of human resources, the

superintendent of governmental affairs, labor relations
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advisor, front line supervision, and then was a

bargaining unit member for the 11 years with the

International Union of Operating Engineers Local 953.

I am currently the head of external affairs

for BHP Billiton New Mexico Coal.

MR. ROYBAL: We'd move the admission of

Mr. Benally's testimony in this case.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Thank you.

Objections?

Hearing none, admitted.

Thank you.

(Exhibit SJCC A admitted into evidence.)

Q. (BY MR. ROYBAL) Mr. Benally, could you

summarize your testimony for the Board?

A. Sure.

Mr. Roybal, before I do, though, I just want

to thank the Board for being here in New Mexico, and I

am Salt Clan. My mom was Salt Clan. My father was Red

Running Into Water Clan. So I introduce myself as being

Salt Clan first and Red Running Into Water Clan second.

And my maternal grandfathers are Folded Arms Clan, and

my paternal grandfathers are also Folded Arms Clan, as

well.

But I'm here to offer testimony on behalf of
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San Juan Coal Company, which is a subsidiary of New

Mexico Coal. In return, New Mexico Coal is wholly-owned

by BHP Billiton.

The company operates San Juan Mine, which is

an underground mine operating on federal land and state

land here in Northwest New Mexico. We also operate

Navajo Mine, which is a surface coal mine that's located

within the exterior boundaries of the Navajo Nation.

San Juan Mine sells coal to the San Juan

Generating Station that is operated by public service of

New Mexico. As a result, we are a very significant

stakeholder in the future and the sustainability of San

Juan Generating Station.

As a -- as a company, we support New Mexico

Environmental Department's proposal for San Juan

Generating Station to establish the Best Available

Retrofit Technology to regulate nitrogen oxide and

particulate matters.

We are concerned over a recent US

Environmental Protection Agency proposal that would

establish BART for San Juan Generating Station, and we

believe the State of New Mexico is in the best position

to establish BART for the San Juan Generating Station.

My testimony pertains to the socioeconomic

benefits and impacts of our operation on the State of
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New Mexico, San Juan County and the Navajo Nation.

In several ways, I'm really an example of what

the energy industry can bring to the Navajo Nation. As

I indicated, I started when I was 20 years old with BHP

Billiton, and have enjoyed an employment. I've been

able to obtain a bachelor's of science degree in

business administration from the University of Phoenix

for which the energy industry, BHP Billiton paid

75 percent of my continuing education.

In calendar year 2010, New Mexico Coal

employed 1,038 people at our San Juan and Navajo Mine

operations, with a total payroll of approximately

$93 million. Our workforce is 63 percent Native

American. We account for nearly 3 percent of employment

in San Juan County.

We are a significant contributor to the local

and state economy. Our bargaining unit miners are

represented by Local 953 of the International Union of

Operating Engineers. We are currently the largest

private employer in San Juan County and the Navajo

Nation. And as you know, the Navajo Nation -- the

unemployment rate exceeds 50 percent.

In calendar year 2010, our New Mexico Coal

operations paid state, local, tribal, federal taxes and

royalties of over $116 million, which equates to $8.62
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per ton, plus state and federal income taxes. In

addition, we spent over $150 million on equipment,

services and supplies for our two mines.

The San Juan Mine currently employs

approximately 529 employees with a total payroll of

$46 million. In calendar year 2010, San Juan Mine paid

state, local, tribal, federal taxes and royalties for

approximately $49 million, plus state and federal income

taxes. This includes approximately 24 million in New

Mexico taxes and nearly 11 million in royalties to New

Mexico.

As a company, we are committed to sustainable

development, and we strive to be a business that is

actively creating a positive legacy in our community.

We are a major contributor to both the San Juan United

Way and the Navajo Way campaigns.

We were the first $1 million donor to the San

Juan United Way's 50-year history. And this was

repeated again in 2011. In July of 2009, BHP Billiton

established a community investment fund program which

resulted in $383,000 being awarded to 34 deserving

nonprofit organizations.

And I thank you for once again for coming to

our neck of the woods.

MR. ROYBAL: We offer the witness for
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questions.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Mr. Grantham?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Alvidrez?

MR. ALVIDREZ: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Mr. Rose?

MR. ROSE: No questions.

MS. ORTH: Anyone else?

Board members, do you have questions of

Mr. Benally?

Any reason not to excuse him?

No?

Thank you very much, Mr. Benally.

MR. ROYBAL: Again, we thank the Board for

attending this hearing and coming to San Juan County.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Let me ask at this point if there's anyone

else who would like to make nontechnical public comment.

This is the last opportunity.

Ma'am.

We're asking commenters to come to the same

spot.
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MARGARET MC DANIEL

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MS. MD DANIEL: Margaret McDaniel,

M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T M-C-D-A-N-I-E-L.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. MC DANIEL: Members of the EIB Board, I

respectfully ask for your attention for a couple of

minutes.

I am the executive director of San Juan

Economic Development Service, a nonprofit economic

development group here in San Juan County, representing

the Cities of Aztec, Bloomfield, Farmington and the

remainder of San Juan County.

Our mission is to assist and lead the way in

retention, expansion, creation and recruitment of

economic-based companies into this area for purpose of

creating high-wage jobs. Our Board consists of all the

decision-makers, the mayors, the city managers, as well

as private sector folks from throughout San Juan County.

And before me, I have a packet of a letter

stating our request to support the state SIP plan. I
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also have a resolution signed by the members of the

board of directors in support of this plan.

While I have this letter with supporting

documentation, I would like to just speak freely for a

couple of minutes and tell you that as -- as a member of

this community, also serving as a county commissioner

for District 2, and as an executive director of SJEDS,

it is our understanding that there are so many issues in

this county that affect all of the people here.

And none of us, none of us in this county want

dirty water, dirty air or dirty environment. We're all

trying to work together to find balance between job

creation, job saving or -- and people's health and

well-being.

So at this point, we really respectfully ask

that you consider this, because we know that we have

lost over 5,000 jobs in this area in the last couple of

years, and while the loss of jobs and dollars seem --

seem kind of hard and cold in -- compared to people's

health or even the -- even the visibility, the haze

issue here, it's a matter of working together to find

some kind of balance, that we can all work together and

live together in this beautiful area and find a way to

enjoy our environment, as well as keep our people

employed.
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And so with that, I'd like to leave you with

this packet of information and respectfully ask that you

accept it and consider our -- our support of the SIP.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Please bring it up here.

Is there anyone else who would like to make

nontechnical public comment?

Sir.

MR. ROGERS: My name is Joe Rogers.

THE REPORTER: Would you raise your right

hand.

JOE ROGERS

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Now, please state and spell

your name.

MR. ROGERS: Joe Rogers, R-O-G-E-R-S.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. ROGERS: Definitely nontechnical.

I started working at the Four Corners Power

Plant in probably February of 1974 and worked there

until last year. And one thing I know for certain is,

you know, when you get up on top of the units, you can

see San Juan Station from the Four Corners plant, and
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you can see all around the area.

In '74, the visibility was a lot better than

it is now, but the only thing that's really changed in

that time was the power plants are probably -- between

the two power plants, they probably put in billions of

dollars worth of pollution control equipment. And so, I

mean, they made a major effort in what it takes to

control our visibility. And that's what this is about,

visibility.

And so I would say unequivocally that the

power plants aren't the main source of pollution that is

impacting visibility.

Second item was I appreciate the Board's

efforts in this. I think they're making the best of a

really bad situation, and I think it is a state's rights

issue. I think you guys need to have control of this,

and encourage you to stick with it and make sure that we

deal with this as a visibility issue, not a health

issue.

I guess my third comment would be I've been in

constant contact with our -- our two senators and

Congressman Lujan over this issue continually, and it

does not look like they have any intention of stepping

in and helping EPA make the decision to give this back

to the New Mexico Board.
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So I would encourage everybody to contact the

senators and Lujan in particular and make sure that they

step in and support New Mexico in taking this from --

back from the EPA.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Rogers.

Is there anyone else who would like to make

public comment?

Sir.

JOSH ORTEGA

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. ORTEGA: Josh Ortega, O-R-T-E-G-A.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MR. ORTEGA: Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen of the Board, I'm a

member of the International Union of Operating Engineers

Local 953, and I'm also an underground coal miner. I am

but one of the several hundred coal miners that are

employed with the responsibility of providing fuel to

San Juan Generating Station. We are productive members

of our community, and we contribute economically to this
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region.

The impact of these proposed regulations will

have profound effect upon the economy of this area. If

the power plant and coal mines are regulated out of

business, five or ten years from now, maybe sooner, this

community will look nothing like it does now. And as to

your comments earlier, the riverwalks and things of that

nature have been provided due to the economic impact of

the San Juan Generating Station and BHP.

According to the American Lung Association's

Annual State of the Air report, Farmington consistently

ranks as one of the cleanest clean air cities in the

United States.

As a resident of this area and working to rear

a family here, I am concerned about the environment, and

I strive to lessen my family's effect upon the local

environment. But as a responsible father, I have to

consider the economic impacts of these choices upon my

family.

The Federal Implementation Plan will place an

undue economic hardship upon the already struggling

citizens of this great state and threaten the very

livelihood of the local residents.

The New Mexico implementation plan balances

cost and economic impacts with significant environmental
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improvements. By utilizing our State Implementation

Plan, we will provide the residents of this community

and our state an opportunity to succeed in a struggling

economy.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your time.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Ortega.

Anyone else?

Is Lucinda Bennalley here or --

LUCINDA Y. BENNALLEY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MS. BENNALLEY: Lucinda, L-U-C-I-N-D-A, Y.

Bennalley, B-as-in-boy-E-N-N-A-L-L-E-Y.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

MS. BENNALLEY: Good morning, ladies and

gentlemen of the State of New Mexico's Board,

Environmental Board.

My name is Lucinda Yellowman Bennalley, and

I'm the president of the local chapter. I don't know

how many of you are familiar with the chapters of the

Navajo Nation. They're like small county governments.

And I've been a chapter president for over 20 years.
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And I'm also a retired educator, having last

worked as a guidance counselor in a public school, at

Kirtland Central. Yea, Broncos. And my primary job

there was to make sure that the students had a plan to

get a high school diploma and then go on beyond that.

And we and the other counselors -- it was our priority

to make sure that these students went on to get skilled,

to be able to have jobs.

And we are very fortunate where we live here

in Northwest New Mexico to have these companies close by

so our children can go on to school, get skilled and

come back and stay in the community and work in a

well-paying job.

And we're thankful we have a community college

at San Juan to provide these programs that are needed

for jobs here in the area. And we are also thankful to

the companies that have provided their funds for the

School of Energy to -- to provide programs that are

appropriate for -- for the local companies and the

positions that are available there.

And as a member of the Nenahnezad Chapter, we

always claim that we're closest to Hesperus Mountain,

which, of course, the Navajos consider as one of the

sacred mountains, and historically, all that land up to

Hesperus was Navajo Nation, before the US bought it out,
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or bought it back or took it back.

Because my dad used to say, "Well, we used to

herd our sheep all the way to the foothills, and there

was our summer camp."

And it was like, man, why didn't we keep it?

But anyway, because we didn't keep it, we have

thousands, probably, counting all the people that are

employed at PNM and BHP and the contractors, they're

able to have jobs, and which improves their quality of

life, and enabling our -- our Navajo Nation to have a

better quality of life than what's on the rest of the

nation.

And I am asking that on behalf of our

community, whatever needs to be done to -- to assist PNM

to continue operating, providing jobs, providing

scholarships, summer jobs, and, of course, most

important, the royalties and taxes that go to the whole

State of New Mexico, and to the Navajo Nation and other

tribes.

And we feel that as -- as indigenous people,

we are responsible stewards of the land. We feel that

the creator has blessed us with the type of land that

was given to us to live on, at some point a hundred or

so years ago. However, we were blessed that there's a

lot of natural resources, and we did not benefit only as
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a tribe by ourselves, but we were able to -- our

neighbors are able to benefit from it, too.

So -- and I always say, "When you were coming

in, you probably saw the beautiful mountains." And I

said that to the EPA folks about a month ago or so.

They said, "Yes, we did."

Okay. Where's the haze? There is no haze.

Yesterday there was. I don't know where that came from.

I think it's blowing from the coast or something. But

you couldn't hardly see, and it was awful. Now, that's

haze. And that's what our elders say. If you're

talking about pollution, you're talking about what you

see in LA. There's no pollution here.

So we are in support of that and whatever

needs to be done to assist PNM. And of course, if

anything should happen negatively to cause that plant to

shut down, it will affect all -- the whole county and

the whole state, probably the whole nation.

And again, I say we are fortunate that our

children and our people are able to stay close to home

to have good jobs, although there are a number of them

that have to travel to different contracts throughout

the United States to -- to have well-paying jobs.

So -- and another thing I wanted to say was --

I had mentioned to EPA people that maybe something
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should be done to collaborate with the United Nations,

maybe some global watchdog organization to address this

pollution.

I don't think that our plants, our pollution,

all this global warming pollution, because there's no

regulation. Nobody looks out for the power plants that

are unregulated in China, and all that drifts over to

us. Now we're experiencing all the weather changes

because of what happened in Japan.

So we are just trying to provide for our

community, for our United States of America, and our

people proudly served as veterans, calling the US our

mother. That was one of the words in the Code Talkers'

vocabulary.

So with that, I thank you for the time to be

able to make these comments.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Bennalley.

Anyone else?

CLAYTON BENALLY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. BENALLY: My name is Clayton Benally,
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C-L-A-Y-T-O-N, Benally, B-E-N-A-L-L-Y.

And I am no relations to Norman Benally or

Lucy Bennalley.

I'm here today to urge the Environment

Improvement Board to adopt the State Implementation

Plan.

I live in Shiprock. I'm a member of the

Navajo Nation. I get my utility bill through the Navajo

Tribal Utility Authority, the NTUA, if you will. NTUA

buys their electricity from Tucson Electric, which are

part owners in PNM. So any decisions made that affect

PNM also affects the Navajo Nation.

And as you know, Navajo Nation goes in New

Mexico, Arizona and Utah. So, you know, the decisions

affect a wide range of people, in a big geographical

area.

I worked at PNM, BHP and also on APS on the

construction side of things. Now my job directly -- now

directly affects people that I send out to these

construction jobs. I'm also a member of the

International Union of Operating Engineers Local 953.

And I have a lot of friends and a lot of

family -- some family and a lot of coworkers that are

directly affected by any decisions made toward PNM, BHP

or even APS. You know, the friends and family, they
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maintain a good living, maintain good benefits working

at these sites.

The latest concerning PNM is they've abided by

all the rules and restrictions made by the EPA, you

know, the latest being the 2009 baghouse projects in

which I had a lot of coworkers, associates working out

there. You know, we bent over backwards to abide by the

restrictions that seem to be ever changing concerning

these industries.

Every job at APS, PNM and BHP have an economic

multiplier which directly affects the community in

general, the local businesses, as well as our children

and our school districts and stuff. And so, you know,

any -- any decision that's made affects a wide range of

people.

In worst case scenario, if the restrictions

are too bad, the plants shut down, it's going to affect

a lot of people. A lot of people are going to be out of

jobs, and things aren't going to look good.

And there's a big push toward green energy,

but one question I want to pose to you is where are you

going to get your electricity if the wind's not blowing

and the sun's not shining?

I want to thank you for your time, and please

adopt the State Implementation Plan.
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Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Benally.

Is there anyone else who would like to make

nontechnical public comment at this time?

This is the last opportunity.

Yes.

MS. FALK: Hi.

MS. ORTH: I'm sorry. Wait for her first, but

I'll take you next.

MS. FALK: Oh, okay.

MS. ORTH: You can both be sworn in.

(EUGENIA QUINTANA and CONSTANCE LUIS FALK were

duly sworn or affirmed.)

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. QUINTANA: Eugenia Quintana, E-U-G-E-N-I-A

Q-U-I-N-T-A-N-A.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.

And your name, please.

MS. FALK: My name is Constance Louise Falk,

F-A-L-K.

THE REPORTER: Thank you.
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EUGENIA QUINTANA

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

MS. QUINTANA: My name is Eugenia Quintana.

I'm the environmental department manager for the Navajo

Nation Environmental Protection Agency. It's an office

within the executive branch of the Navajo Nation. And

I'm here on behalf of the Navajo Environmental

Protection Agency to offer some comments.

I wanted to say that the Navajo Nation is

supportive of New Mexico's proposed revisions to the

State Implementation Plan for regional haze. New Mexico

has their own authority to develop SIP for their

jurisdiction, and we support New Mexico doing that,

especially when New Mexico has a better understanding of

the regional context and how to weigh the complete

considerations in that regard.

Why is the Navajo Nation interested?

The Navajo Nation is -- is home to about

280,000 Navajo people. The Navajo Nation covers more

than 27,000 square miles within the exterior boundaries

of Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. It also occupies 13

counties in those states, and it is a place of great

scenic beauty.
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There is little economic development on the

Navajo Nation, and Navajo people who live there are the

poorest -- among the poorest in the US. 48 percent are

unemployed, and 40 percent are below the federal poverty

line.

Our living conditions are substandard compared

to the rest of the United States. 31 percent of Navajo

homes do not have complete plumbing. 28 percent do not

have operational kitchen facilities. 30 percent do not

have water services. 32 percent are without

electricity. 86 percent do not have natural gas

services. 60 percent of homes do not have telephone

services.

The Navajo Nation's most valuable and saleable

natural resource are its coal reserves. The Navajo

Nation is dependent on coal. They have been so for many

years, and we so are very much dependent on coal.

The two power -- there are two power plants on

the Navajo Nation, the Four Corners Power Plant and the

Navajo Generating Station. These two power plants were

specifically planned for and located exactly where they

are to provide for and sell coal and provide a market

for Navajo coal.

The income from Four Corners and Navajo

Generating Station provide many direct and indirect
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contributions to the Navajo Nation. These indirect and

direct contributions are substantial to the Navajo

Nation's economic viability, including the health and

welfare of the Navajo people and to the sustainability

of the Navajo Nation as an independent sovereign nation.

The San Juan Generating Station and the

supplying mine, the San Juan Mine, also contribute to

the regional economy and provide hundreds of jobs to

Navajo workers, contractors and subcontractors.

Approximately 22 percent of San Juan Generating Plant

workers are Navajo, and about 45 percent of the San Juan

Mine workforce are also Navajo -- Navajo tribal members.

The Navajo Nation is situated where three

power plants are located. And I just named those, the

Four Corners Power Plant and the Navajo Generating

Station, including the San Juan Generating Station. All

three power plants contribute to the Navajo Nation

economy, and all three power plants and their supplying

mines contribute to the tribal economy and the regional

economic dynamics.

I would also like to mention that there are

also additional emission sources, both major and minor

sources, within the region, that all contribute in

varying percentages to emissions, and these aren't just

emissions from the power plants.
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The Navajo Nation also recently expressed

concerns to USEPA Region 6 regarding USEPA's proposed

BART for San Juan Generating Station. The proposed EPA

BART determination has implications for the Navajo

Nation tribal trust interests.

Although the San Juan Generating Station is

located outside the jurisdiction of the Navajo Nation,

it is nevertheless a facility with significant impacts

on both the Navajo Nation and the regional economy.

Some of the positive impacts of the San Juan

Generating Station that we hear quite frequently are PNM

scholarships and the contributions to nonprofit

organizations that use the contributions to address

issues within their own specific communities.

The BART determination proposed for San Juan

Generating Station, including NGS and Four Corners --

I'm sure the Board members are aware that USEPA is also

proposing BART for two power plants on the Navajo

Nation, for Four Corners and for NGS. USEPA Region 9 is

planning to propose BART for NGS sometime this summer.

They have recently taken comments on BART for Four

Corners.

BART determinations for all these three power

plants within one to two years time frame could have

significant impacts to the Navajo Nation, particularly
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to the Navajo workforces at each of these plants. The

subsequent rippling effect has the potential to exact

exponential detrimental impacts if BART determinations

result in exorbitant costs for compliance and too

stringent compliance scheduling.

We have also been concerned over USEPA's

proposed compliance scheduling for San Juan Generating

Station. It requires installation of SCR on all units

within three years of promulgation of the EPA BART FIP

for San Juan Generating Station, while the Regional Haze

Rule actually allows for five years for compliance.

I also wanted to interject and highlight that

the closure of the Mohave Generating Station on the

western side of the Navajo Nation is directly

attributable to similar USEPA rulemaking. Closure of

Mohave, in turn, resulted in the closure of the Black

Mesa mine and the loss of significant royalty revenues

to the Navajo Nation.

While San Juan Generating Station is not

burning down with coal, there still are considerable

regional economic effects which cumulatively would

dramatically impact the Navajo Nation if the San Juan

Generating Station were forced to close because of the

proposed USEPA BART rulemaking.

A comment about health. The Navajo Nation is
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concerned about health, both on the Navajo Nation and

regionally. However, BART that is being proposed for

San Juan Generating Station is supposed to be about

visibility, not about health, and in the context of our

concern about health, we have specifically asked USEPA

Region 6 to consider pursuing health studies in

collaboration with the Navajo Nation, New Mexico and

other stakeholders, so we can get a better idea of the

baseline data that we can use to perhaps model and

further analyze and make some better assumptions about

the direct impacts of the major sources upon the health

of people in the region.

In conclusion, the Navajo Nation is supportive

of New Mexico's proposed revisions to the State

Implementation Plan for regional haze because the

existing and proposed SNCR controls on all the units

will achieve reasonable progress in order to meet the

visibility goals of the Regional Haze Rule by 2064.

That's it.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Quintana.

Ms. Falk.
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CONSTANCE LOUISE FALK

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

MS. FALK: Hi.

I'm planning to move to this community within

the next couple of years. I bought a home here. I'll

be retiring. I'm a professor of agriculture and

economics at New Mexico State University.

And of course, I'm very concerned about

potential to my own health to moving into a region

that -- as I understand it -- I'm not well informed,

but as I understand it, it's -- these power plants

produce some of the greatest amounts of air pollution

than any power plants in the country.

And if I'm not mistaken in that understanding,

then my perspective on that is that this community has

been then -- been allowed to be kind of a sacrifice zone

for whatever particular interests are behind that.

And I understand the Navajo Nation's concern

about jobs, and certainly we can quantify the loss of

those jobs, and maybe that's why we tend to make

decisions based on those jobs, and we don't quantify the

externalities associated with a lot of pollution. We

don't quantify. And even the person that came before me
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said that we should study the health effects.

But we do know that all of these -- this

particulate matter in the air has health effects on

children. And they can't come here and speak to you,

and they can't come here and make their case about their

lifelong problems with breathing and asthma.

And so I think that instead of just focusing

on the things that are easily quantified, which are

potential jobs lost, which, in my mind, hasn't been

established, because other power plants in the country

have very easily upgraded.

So instead of just concentrating on those

easily quantifiable impacts, we should think more about

the more difficult things to quantify, which are the

externalities associated with widespread health impacts

that this community has long suffered from and that I

fear will also impact me when I move here.

And another sort of unquantifiable economic

impact that probably is never really talked about is the

potential to draw many more retirees such as myself to

this community who would be drawn here if they knew that

this was a clean environment and that they could see the

beautiful natural wonders that exist here in this

region.

And so those are the kind of the main points
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that I would hope you consider, is some of those hard to

quantify externalities, and looking at those more

carefully, and not just basing your decision on the

easily quantified potentially loss of jobs.

And certainly we know there's lots of

information available about the green energy economy and

how more jobs can be created through that than the

number of jobs that would be lost in the old way.

They're going to go by the wayside anyway.

We know that the fossil fuel era has to come

to an end, it will come to an end, and so why not bring

it to an end in a way that's rational and makes a

transition to a clean energy economy and one that

provides jobs here at San Juan College. They have an

internationally known program in green energy, and

there's no reason why that program can't be extended to

the Navajo Nation to train lots of people in green

energy jobs.

Thank you very much.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Ms. Falk.

Is there anyone else?

I see a gentleman.
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RUDY MOYA

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. MOYA: My name is Rudy Moya. I've been in

this area since 1971.

I'm a business agent for the laborers union

hall in Farmington. I've worked in the power plant for

many years. You know, most of my members in this area

are hard-working laborers. I got over 400 or 500 people

working, not at work -- not working now. Maybe about

80 percent -- 80 people are working now.

When we got these turnarounds, they look

forward to their jobs. And they also like to go for

their pension. We got credits. And a lot of people are

coming from Arizona, Utah, Colorado, just to get these

jobs, and make a good living, and they have a good

pension. And I can see San Juan County going down. San

Juan Power Plant has always provided work for us, and

Four Corners, also.

All I can ask on behalf of my members and the

people in Farmington area in -- and the Navajo Nation,

if we can do something about working with the power
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plants, you know, if they have to fix something, more

work for the people. That's all I ask for San Juan and

the members in this area.

That's it.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Moya.

MR. MOYA: I have a little proposal here for

our area, they may want to look at it.

MS. ORTH: Bring it up here, please.

Is there anyone else who would like to make

nontechnical public comment?

This is the last opportunity before we close

the record.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Madam Hearing Examiner, PNM

does have some written public comment that we would like

to submit at this time. It is primarily directed to

some of the public comment with respect to health

effects.

I've got a number of copies here --

MS. ORTH: Great.

MR. ALVIDREZ: -- but it should be sufficient.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Anything else at all before we close the

record?

MR. ALVIDREZ: Madam Hearing Examiner, again,

I don't -- certainly don't want to prolong this. PNM is
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very anxious, of course, to have the Board take action

on this matter.

I know that we're dealing with some very

significant technical issues and that the Board has had

an opportunity to certainly review the testimony that's

been filed here, the public comments and also hear the

summary testimony.

We do have the representatives from Black &

Veatch here in the event that, you know, through the

course of the evening last night or reviewing the

testimony, any questions came up, we'd be glad to

present them, provide the Board with an opportunity of

some follow-up questions, if they have any.

Certainly completely at the discretion of the

Board, but we want to be helpful and provide the Board

with as much information as we possibly can to help them

deliberate and make a decision in this case.

I would also ask that the parties be provided

with at least a few minutes -- since we're not going to

have briefing or anything like that in this case, a few

minutes to make some closing comments, as well.

That's all I would ask. Thank you.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Anything -- do you have anything to add,

Mr. Grantham.
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MR. GRANTHAM: Madam Hearing Officer, the

Department also has our witnesses here today, and we

were of the assumption that there would be an

opportunity for additional questions either by the Board

or some of the public for the Department's technical

witnesses.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Board, do you have a record upon which you

would like to deliberate, or do you have additional

questions either of the Department panel or the PNM

panel?

MS. PEACOCK: I have a question for PNM.

MS. ORTH: You do. All right.

And would this be from the Black & Veatch

witnesses?

MS. PEACOCK: Maybe just Mr. Alvidrez.

MS. ORTH: Oh. All right.

Let's give it a shot.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Certainly.

MS. PEACOCK: As you've heard over the last

couple of days, it's likely that the EPA will probably

not adopt the SIP.

What is PNM -- well, what is the process that

PNM is going to follow with the -- waiting for the EPA

to say yes or no, and then what will happen?
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MR. ALVIDREZ: Well, you raised a very good

point, and I'm sure it's one that is heavy on the mind

of the Board members. And I think it's very important

to clarify where the EPA is with respect to this

process.

Now, what EPA has done is it has issued a

proposed SIP -- FIP. It is nothing more than a proposal

at this point. It is not final. It's not binding. EPA

is still deliberating on it. It has received over 4,500

comments, as I understand it, with respect to its

proposed BART determination.

And so I think that it really kind of

shortchanges the EPA to some extent to think that that's

a done deal. And I want to impress upon this Board that

this Board's action to adopt the NMED proposal will have

a profound effect in Region 6, in Dallas, with respect

to its proposal.

Now, the EPA has gone to federal court and

asked for an extension of time in August so that this

Board could act and adopt a State Implementation Plan on

regional haze and the other proceeding that's going to

follow shortly after this with respect to the interstate

transport, so that they can consider this matter and

take action.

I can also tell the Board that following the
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comment period that PNM made, where PNM submitted

comments, that two weeks ago the EPA came to the San

Juan Generating Station, for the first time, by the way,

with respect to the BART analysis, to actually look at

the station, see how it's configured and see whether or

not, you know, the numbers that PNM has submitted

through Black & Veatch make sense.

So I don't want the Board to think that this

is a futile effort, that there's, you know, no

significance to what they -- what the Board might do

with respect to the NMED proposal.

What I can tell you is that it will have an

impact, that the EPA is going to have to answer some

tough questions. They're going to have to answer why

their economic analysis is so different from the

analysis that the state has approved.

And I will tell you that one of the things

that we know of that EPA analysis, it's done by the

book, and that when EPA was looking at the San Juan

Generating Station, all they did was Google it. They

looked at it on a Google map and said, "Oh, yeah."

And it's a very different thing when you get

on the ground and actually look at the plant, see how

it's configured, see what the controls are that are on

there, where you have to work and what the costs are
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involved.

So I think that's a very significant issue.

The other thing about the EPA proposal is that

I think there's a lot of people that are

misunderstanding. It's a regional haze SIP or regional

haze FIP. It is not.

What it is is an interstate transport FIP

that, for whatever reason, EPA decided they wanted to go

ahead and make a BART determination in the context of

that rather than a full regional haze Federal

Implementation Plan. It falls far short and is very

different from what the NMED has proposed, which is a

comprehensive plan.

If you read the EPA Federal Implementation

Plan, they readily admit, "We're not even addressing SO2,

which is probably the largest contributor of regional

haze. We'll wait, and we'll address that sometime

later."

But the package that the NMED has submitted is

a full package. It addresses both the regional haze

requirements, and it also addresses the interstate

transport visibility component. It is the full package.

And by the way, as the EPA readily admits,

it's had the state interstate transport SIP pending

before it since 2003 and didn't take action.
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So there are a lot of tough questions the EPA

is going to have to answer if this Board adopts the NMED

proposal. It really is going to have to address why it

has come to a different conclusion, based on its very

extenuating study, why it shouldn't give deference, as

Mr. Cline suggested, with respect to the state's

determination about what is right for New Mexico and the

region.

And so I don't want this Board to go away with

the idea that, you know, this is a fool's errand. It

will be meaningful. It will have an impact that EPA

will have to consider.

MS. ORTH: Anything else before we -- yeah.

Member Ryan.

MS. RYAN: I do have a question for PNM's

technical witnesses.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Certainly.

They're -- for the court reporter, it might

be --

MS. ORTH: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: -- helpful so she can --

MS. ORTH: We're recalling for the moment

Ms. Fischer and Mr. Lucas, Black & Veatch panel. They

gave full testimony yesterday.

Ms. Fischer and Mr. Lucas, you're still under
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oath.

DIANE FISCHER and KYLE LUCAS

having been previously duly sworn or affirmed, were

examined and testified further as follows:

FURTHER EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MS. ORTH: Member Ryan.

MS. RYAN: Yes. Thank you for being available

today for follow-up questions.

And this came to me as I was driving to the

San Juan area yesterday from Santa Fe, and the wind was

blowing, seemingly 900 miles an hour. We had dust

blowing everywhere, clouds building. It looked -- rain

in some places. And I saw a haze.

And I started to think about what was in the

haze and all of the contributing factors, not only the

pollution, you know, NOx and CO2, that we've been talking

about, but I was seeing the dirt being blown up like

this, and I was thinking how much of that is dirt -- my

husband and I were discussing it -- how much of that is

dirt, how much of that is NOx, how much of that is CO2,

and how are we quantifying that and looking at

visibility.

And if we're supposed to be looking at

visibility, I'm just -- I am not a scientist, I'm a
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lawyer, so far cry from, but could you attempt at all --

and in the research that your company did in coming up

with its analysis to take in other variables in the haze

issue for this particular area?

Sorry, that's a long question.

MR. LUCAS: You asked some very intuitive

questions there.

While I can't speak about yesterday, and the

specifics of yesterday --

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. LUCAS: While I can't speak for

yesterday's specific conditions, I'm from Kansas, and

what it looked like to me was just a dusty, rainy event

on the drive up.

Specifically with yesterday, there was a lot

of moisture in the air. And as part of the visibility

analysis, it does take into account moisture variables

and relative humidity. That is one contributing factor

to the visibility component or the visibility equation.

The equation also takes into account sulfates

and nitrates. It takes into account various sizes of

particulate matter, organic aerosols and other -- other

pollutants that has gone through various rounds of

studies.

And so when we spoke yesterday of the analysis
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done to look at the baseline conditions at San Juan --

MS. RYAN: Right.

MR. LUCAS: -- as compared to the conditions

of the additional control technology evaluations, each

of that -- each of those analyses takes into account all

of those variables that are available through the

modeling methodology we proposed through the protocol

document, and looks at it equally through the same

meteorological data.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

So it all was considered in coming up with

your baseline.

MR. LUCAS: All is all inclusive. I'm going

to say --

MS. RYAN: Right.

MR. LUCAS: -- that within the guidelines

provided to us and the methodology proposed, it was

considered.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

MS. FISCHER: Kyle, can I ask you a question?

When she's talking about dust flying up in the

air, that's called fugitive dust. That's the technical

term for it.

Is fugitive dust in that number, or not?

MR. LUCAS: There is a value of particulate
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matter considered at each of the Class I areas, and the

guidelines have published certain values and attributes

various components to that equation that overall come

back into the model and are reviewed through the

baseline to AQC technology review.

MS. RYAN: So when we were talking yesterday

about a 2.5 basically visible change, that is only in

application to just the particular technology proposed

by the SIP, and just as to those particular pollutants,

not as to the other variables that contribute to

visibility in this community.

MR. LUCAS: The -- it is correct that the 2.5

deciviews was for the SNCR technology. The improvements

gained between baseline and that technology addition on

a facility basis, both between the baseline and the AQC

analysis, the same variables were looked at and used,

the sulfates and nitrates, moisture, particulate matter,

organic aerosols and so forth, to make it on an

equivalent basis, so that you can see the improvements

by looking at each technology option that was chosen to

be feasible.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

MS. FISCHER: So if I -- I think what you're

asking is does the model kind of throw all those things

that you're talking about into the model before, and
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then look at if we change something, are all those same

things in the model, and so that the only difference is

the control technology? Is that what you're asking?

MR. LUCAS: I should also include that --

MS. FISCHER: Is that true? Is the only

difference --

MR. LUCAS: Yes. It's --

MS. FISCHER: Okay.

MR. LUCAS: The only change between the two

are operational characteristics of the equipment and the

machinery and so forth.

Additionally, when we're building a database

to run in the model, we do take into account a

three-dimensional meteorological field, we take into

account precipitation data, we take into account ozone

data, ammonia data that's available. So there are other

pieces that go into the -- the base model that we look

at.

MS. RYAN: That answers my question.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Other questions of the Black &

Veatch panel?

Member Fulfer.

MR. FULFER: Only what is your baseline year

that you're using? Is it from 2005? 2009?
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MR. LUCAS: Since there was so much

complicated data that goes into the model, the database

was the years 2001, '2 and '3, and that is the

standardized data set that is typically used in this

area. And certain different areas of the country have

different data sets that they use. This is one that was

proposed within the methodology.

MR. FULFER: So are you able to take into

account some of the retrofit that they've done before?

MR. LUCAS: The meteorological was

standardized for both the baseline condition as well as

the AQC analyses. Within the baseline condition, the

operational characteristics of the plant included the

consent decree controls that were discussed earlier, the

$320 million of add-ons between 2005 and 2009. So it

takes into account those additional NOx combustion

controls and chose operational characteristics as part

of that baseline.

MS. FISCHER: So we took the '01 to '03 data,

which didn't have the consent decree stuff in, we

modeled that, and then we modeled it with the consent

decree stuff on it, and then we modeled it with the

additional items that we looked at for BART. So there

were kind of three steps because of that situation.

Is that what you're asking?
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MR. FULFER: Yeah.

MS. RYAN: Can you address the first baseline

model that you came up from 2001 to 2003 to the -- when

the new retrofit technology was implemented at the

plant?

MR. LUCAS: What was submitted as part of the

SIP was the consent decree controls, we call it the

2005, and the AQC technology, that's NCR. Previously,

we also looked at -- outside of that analysis the

preconsent decree controls to the consent decree and the

visibility gained from less NOx control, which was -- I'm

not -- I don't have the specific number. I think it was

about a .4 pound per million NOx -- I might be mistaken

on that -- down to that .3 from the consent decree.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

MR. LUCAS: So we looked at that emission

reduction, and that had some visibility improvement.

And then we looked for the purposes of BART, the

reduction that we would see from the consent decree at

the .3 level, down to the .23 level with SNCR. The .23

level is the presumptive level --

MS. RYAN: Right.

MR. LUCAS: -- for this type of boiler and

this type of fuel.

And so what you see at that .25 is just the
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period -- or the betterment of the consent decree or our

baseline to the SNCR technology. As we discussed

yesterday, it's a cumulative effect at each of the Class

I areas.

If you were to look at it that way, you could

say that between the uncontrolled San Juan Generating

Station before the consent decree --

MS. RYAN: Right.

MR. LUCAS: -- to the SNCR control, you would

have an additive at each Class I area --

MS. RYAN: Right.

MR. LUCAS: -- of San Juan's benefit of going

to that -- let's say .4 --

MS. RYAN: Okay.

MR. LUCAS: -- don't quote me on that

number -- but to the .23.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

MR. LUCAS: You'd have that additional which

is not part of the .25 --

MS. RYAN: Um-hum.

MR. LUCAS: -- to the consent decree.

MS. RYAN: Okay.

MR. LUCAS: To help you illustrate --

visibility is a hard -- hard concept when you're looking

at deciviews and how much you would actually achieve.
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As part of the hearing that happened a couple

of months ago, the -- some graphics were produced.

These are the wind haze program. It's available as a

freeware off the National Park Service web site. Within

that, you look at specific Class I areas. And each has

specific background conditions.

What was done was that the various control

technology scenarios, the precontrolled, controlled and

SNCR, SCR, were looked at and overlaid on a

representative Class I area.

These graphics that we have here are

representative -- we'll call it Mesa Verde. The

software doesn't have graphics for Mesa Verde as a Class

I area. The Colorado SIP used something very similar,

but they used Canyonlands as representative due to

similarities in topography.

So what we have done is overlaid those various

scenarios as far as what visibility would look like as a

change between one scenario and another scenario over

Canyonlands. And these might help illustrate or may

have -- bring up other questions you -- that you may

have but.

MS. RYAN: Yes. Thank you.

MR. LUCAS: This might be helpful.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And I would note these are in
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the record. They are attached as exhibits to

Mr. Themig's testimony. It's actually PNM's comments to

the EPA. It's EJT Exhibit 2, and this is Appendix 5.

But this is a very good illustration of --

this is what -- this is a depiction of the area before

any control, before the San Juan upgrades that we've

talked about.

This is a picture of after the upgrades have

been made, the $320 million have been spent.

And this is a picture of what you would get

after you spend a billion dollars. So what we're

talking about is a difference between this picture and

this picture for a billion dollars.

MR. BRYCE: Can you show those to the

audience, also?

MR. ALVIDREZ: Absolutely.

MS. FISCHER: I feel a little like Vanna.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And these pictures are screen

captures right off of the National Park Service web

site. You can go and look -- independently verify and

put in the deciview changes yourself and confirm.

You know, but our conclusion was there's not a

whole lot of difference for a billion dollars.

MR. VOLKERDING: And then do you have a

picture with the state BART?
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MR. ALVIDREZ: We don't have a picture --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MR. ALVIDREZ: -- of the SNCR.

MR. LUCAS: But it would be less --

MR. VOLKERDING: Right. It would be in

between. I just -- yeah.

MR. LUCAS: So yesterday when we were speaking

of that one deciview is about a 10 percent change and

trying to kind of understand that change, this is the --

probably the closest illustration we might be able to

provide.

MS. RYAN: That was helpful. Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Other Board questions?

No.

Is there any cross-examination based on that

testimony?

MR. GRANTHAM: No. No questions.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Anything else, Mr. Alvidrez?

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes. If I could, just a

follow-up question.

FURTHER DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ALVIDREZ:

MR. ALVIDREZ: With respect to the haze that

you -- I assume you drove up yesterday and saw the haze,
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as well --

MR. LUCAS: Yes, I did.

MR. ALVIDREZ: -- like Board Member Ryan has

referred to.

And in terms of that haze, is that what you

saw consistent with a NOx plume?

MR. LUCAS: No. As I mentioned, it was more

consistent with what I've seen with just a

meteorological event, a rainstorm.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And is there a color

characteristic associated with a NOx plume commonly

noted.

MR. LUCAS: Typically with NOx or nitrates,

you'll see a yellow or brown type of plume, if you were

looking at a power plant stack or downstream from that.

And on the drive up, I did not see stacks or plumes

specifically on the drive.

MR. ALVIDREZ: That's all my questions.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Is there any reason not to excuse the Black &

Veatch panel again?

No?

Thank you very much, Ms. Fischer and

Mr. Lucas.

A couple of us need a break. But let me ask
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before we do that if we can get to the closure of the

evidentiary record, parties, presumably you've had an

opportunity to look at the document Mr. Alvidrez handed

me titled Comments of Public Service Company in Response

to Public Comments Relating to Alleged Health Effects,

clearly technical testimony in the form of rebuttal.

Were there objections to the admission of this

packet?

MR. GRANTHAM: Madam Hearing Officer, I don't

believe I've seen that.

MS. ORTH: All right.

Mr. Rose, have you seen it?

No. Okay.

It's titled Public Health Analysis of Air

Emissions Impacts from the San Juan Generating Station.

It was prepared by Gradient Corporation.

MR. GRANTHAM: Madam Hearing Officer, we have

no objections.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

MR. CASCIANO: I have a question, Hearing

Officer.

So this is being offered as public comment

versus technical testimony?

MS. ORTH: No, sir. Member Casciano, this is

technical testimony which is allowed to come in
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notwithstanding the fact that it was not part of the

notice of intent because it's in the form of rebuttal.

And it appears to be proper rebuttal to my eyes. If

Mr. Rose or Mr. Roybal wants to argue otherwise, I'll

certainly hear their objection at this time.

MR. ROYBAL: San Juan has no objection.

MR. ROSE: I have no objection to it.

MS. ORTH: All right. Thank you.

In that case, it's admitted.

(Exhibit PNM A admitted into evidence.)

MS. ORTH: The Board may rely on -- on the

document.

Is there any reason, then, not to close the

evidentiary record?

No?

All right. Hearing -- hearing nothing, we

will close the evidentiary record at this moment.

We will take a 10- to 15-minute break. When

we return, we will have closing arguments from any party

who wishes to offer it. That would be Mr. Alvidrez,

Mr. Grantham, Mr. Rose or Mr. Roybal. And then the

Board can move into deliberations.

Thank you.

Let's take a break.

(Proceedings in recess from 11:38 a.m. to
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11:57 a.m.)

MS. ORTH: Let's come back from the break,

please.

All right. We're coming back from the break

in EIB 11-01. This is proposed revisions to the State

Implementation Plan for regional haze.

The evidentiary record is closed. We will now

have closing arguments from the parties.

Mr. Grantham, would you like to start?

And let me ask all counsel to come down here

so we can hear you.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you, Madam Hearing

Officer, members of the Board.

We've been in hearing for quite some time, so

I will be brief and allow you to get to your

deliberations. But I do have a few closing remarks.

First of all, I want to emphasize that the

visibility is a valid concern. It's an important public

welfare criterion. And it has been decided by Congress

that visibility is an issue that needs to be addressed

in Class I areas.

So the issue before you is not whether

visibility is -- we're considering a balance against

jobs or other considerations. This Board has to enact a

State Implementation Plan to address visibility, or EPA
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will do a federal plan.

However, visibility does require a balancing

as it would any type of environmental regulation, and

the criteria for that balancing are established by

Congress in the Clean Air Act.

As Mr. Cline testified to, I think very

accurately and eloquently, the criteria in particular

for the BART determination are in the act, and they are

the cost of compliance, the remaining useful life of the

source, the energy and nonair impacts, and the existing

pollution control technology, and the degree of

visibility improvement.

The act -- the Clean Air Act and case law

under the visibility provisions of the act establish

that the state has wide discretion in making a

determination for the BART determination. Mr. Cline

also testified to that.

And I would add that -- he talked about the

provisions, the BART guidelines that were established in

1980 and are reasonably -- considerable visibility

impairment provisions, as a more accurate reflection or

interpretation of the act, because it was more

contemporaneous with the 1977 amendments.

However, I would just add that even under the

2005 guidelines that we are operating under here today
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for making BART determinations, the guidelines provide a

methodology that the state has to follow, and they give

the state some guidance on how to weigh -- not -- on how

to consider the factors.

But ultimately, it comes down to a decision.

And the 2005 guidelines that we operate under don't

provide and they can't provide a quantitative way to

reach that ultimate decision.

I think the exchange between Member Ryan and

the technical witnesses really kind of brought that into

focus, that what we're looking at here as far as the

BART determination is -- really comes down to two

options. One would give but a quarter of a deciview

improvement for about $75 million, and the other a

larger deciview improvement for $700 million.

And the guidelines can't tell you how to

balance those two. There's no formula you can plug

those into.

It's the Department's position that either of

those would -- either SCR or SNCR is within the state's

discretion to determine. What the -- the tipping point

for our analysis was the ratepayer cost. The cost is a

consideration. That is one of the factors established

by the act.

Benefits -- the health benefits are not a
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factor in making a BART determination, presumably

because Congress feel that there are other provisions to

address health affects, such as the National Ambient Air

Quality Standards.

So in determining whether the state should

exercise its discretion and require more than the

presumptive standards, which SNCR meets, the ratepayer

cost was -- was the tipping point, and that is why the

state's BART determination ended up where it is.

I'd just also like to remind the Board that

there -- the BART determination is not the only

provision of this rulemaking. There are also revisions

to Section 309, the 2003 SIP and technical

demonstrations done to satisfy the requirements of

309(g) to extend the 309 program to other Class I areas,

and there is substantial evidence in the record

supporting that.

So I would respectfully request the Board to

approve NMED's proposed SIP for 309 and 309(g), and also

just point out that in the -- in our pleadings, there is

a proposed statement of reasons at Exhibit 19, which the

Board can use to document and memorialize its decision

should it reach that decision here today.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Grantham.
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Mr. Alvidrez?

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes, Madam Hearing Examiner,

Madam Chair, members of the Board.

I'd like to first open by thanking you very

much for your time and your consideration in this case.

We understand that you are a volunteer board, that

you're not paid to tend to this very important business,

and that it is very difficult, it is very

time-consuming. And I think it's very commendable to

have all of you here during this entire hearing to hear

this very important case.

And so please accept my thanks on behalf of

Public Service Company of New Mexico for your hard work

and your dedication.

I want to talk a little bit about, of course,

the BART determination for San Juan Generating Station,

and I hope that with the testimony that has been

provided and the comments that have been provided by a

number of people, that the Board has a solid

understanding of what we're dealing with and what the

issues are for consideration.

And we've provided information about

visibility impacts, about what the BART process is, and

have, you know, illustrated or attempted to illustrate

with these exhibits about what an investment of a
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billion dollars -- what the difference is.

And while we certainly don't want to minimize

the importance of visibility, say that it's not

something that needs to be considered by the Board -- it

absolutely does -- we do think that you do have to look

at the cost as factor.

And when you analyze the tremendous costs in

terms of impacts to ratepayers, in terms of potential

impacts to the Four Corners area, we think, as the New

Mexico Environment Department believes, that the balance

tips in favor of something less than SCR, that is that

SNCR is the correct answer for New Mexico.

And in making this determination, we are, of

course, filling a very important statutory duty, both

under the Clean Air Act and under our own New Mexico Air

Quality Control Act.

And, you know, there were a lot of questions

about, well, with SNCR, it costs $77 million, and we

only get an imperceptible improvement in visibility. So

why should we cause the ratepayers to even pay that

amount?

Well, there's a very important reason why, and

that is that that SNCR technology gets you to the

presumptive limit. The presumptive limit has legal

significance in terms of how the EPA has to judge the
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State Implementation Plan. The EPA set that standard

and said, "This is what we expect facilities to meet."

And with the SNCR, we can meet it, San Juan

will be able to meet it, And this Board will have

satisfied its legal requirements in terms of the types

of controls, NOx controls, that are required for San

Juan.

That's why it's worth the $77 million to spend

to get, even though it's a small improvement, an

improvement. We also note that it will also reduce NOx

emissions, which is a good thing. It's not an

insignificant amount. It's almost 5,000 tons per year.

There's been a lot of discussion about what's

happening around the country in terms of EPA and their

involvement in SCR technology, and we did provide the

Board, again attached to Mr. Themig's testimony in

PJT-2, Attachment A, a list that was current, at least

as of April 4th, of various power plants around the

country, and the proposed BART determinations for the

various plants.

So I hope you'll take a little bit of time to

look at it, because you will see that while there are a

number of plants for which SCR has been determined or

proposed is appropriate, there are many, many more

plants where other technologies, including SCR, SNCR,
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have been determined appropriate, and even many, many

more where the combustion controls as we've talked

about, the existing controls that are in effect at San

Juan, have been proposed as approved.

Now, in many cases, it still remains to be

seen what's going to happen, but I think it's important

that if you look at the EPA's own guidelines, their own

guidance in this area, here is what they say about SCR.

These guidelines were published in their 2005

preamble, and it says, "Although states may in specific

cases find that the use of SCR is appropriate, we have

not determined that SCR is generally cost effective for

BART across unit times."

So using the EPA's own criteria, SCR is not

something that they presume is going to be the

appropriate technology. In fact, if you read the EPA

BART guidelines, they believe that combustion controls

are appropriate. That is the low NOx burners over air

that's in effect at San Juan currently.

When we're talking about SCR and SNCR, we're

talking about postcombustion controls. That's, you

know, after the coal has been combusted and it's going

out the -- the exhaust, if you will.

So in closing, we believe that the proposal

that has been submitted by the New Mexico Environment
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Department is a very comprehensive, very thoughtful and

certainly very defensible proposal. It's appropriate

for the State of New Mexico, and it reaches the

appropriate balance of the various interests that this

Board is to consider in adopting a regional haze State

Implementation Plan.

And with that, we would urge the Board's

approval of the New Mexico Environment Department's SIP

as proposed.

Thank you.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Alvidrez.

Mr. Roybal, do you have closing comments?

MR. ROYBAL: Very briefly, Madam Hearing

Officer, members of the Board.

Again, thank you for your efforts in coming to

Farmington, San Juan County.

We hope that what we offered this morning

through Mr. Cline's testimony and his analysis of the

history and substance of the Clean Air Act and its

regulations addressing regional haze will give the Board

comfort that its proposed action, the adoption of the

NMED proposal, is not only appropriate and in keeping

with the provisions and requirements of the act, but is

the right decision to make.

The interchange with Mr. Cline and the Board,
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we thought, was a very positive demonstration of the

diligence and interest of the -- of the Board.

And I just report to you that Mr. Cline, as

someone who has been working in this area for many, many

years and who cares about the substance of the law, and

in this area specifically -- he commends the Board for

its questions and its engagement in this issue, and he

again has worked a long time in this area, and he's

always happy when he can participate in an effort like

this one, and see that the decision-making process where

the state bodies that have to work in this very

technical area is being implemented in this way.

So I think hopefully, again, that interchange

with Mr. Cline will give you some comfort that the Board

will be taking an appropriate action.

And the second -- our second witness hopefully

will give you some indication of the impact of the

Board's decision on the community here and on the

specific people. Mr. Benally worked for his whole

career with our company and in support of this power

plant.

Lucinda Bennalley, the representative of one

of the chapters that is most closely impacted by the

mine and power plant, should give you again an

indication of how your decision will impact our
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community.

And we thank you for your efforts.

Close with that.

MS. ORTH: Thank you, Mr. Roybal.

Mr. Rose, do you have anything to add?

MR. ROSE: Nothing to add, Madam Hearing

Officer.

MS. ORTH: Thank you.

Those are the closing arguments, then, Board.

And I will turn the imaginary gavel back to

the chair.

MS. PEACOCK: Thank you.

And thank you everyone for providing testimony

and comments today. We really appreciate it, and we've

learned a lot in the last couple of days.

So we're going to move into deliberations on

11-01, and does anyone want to start?

MS. RYAN: I'm getting several looks from the

Board, so -- I don't know whether that's because they

want to get -- they know I'm talkative and want me to

get it out of the way or because they legitimately want

to hear what I have to say.

So I'm going to go with the later -- with the

latter.

I would just like to state that for me
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personally, and I know probably for other members of our

Board, that there's been the rhetoric used the past

couple days of that this is a moral issue. And I happen

to completely agree with that. It is a moral issue. It

is a moral issue.

The public health of our state is a moral

issue. The economic impact, the loss of jobs are an

economic issue. Our environment -- the state of our

environment and needing to protect what I believe God

has given us is absolutely a moral issue. And that is

the reason that I agreed to be a member of this Board.

So I do appreciate those comments and take

them very personally. So thank you to those of you who

have raised those.

But as a member of the Board, I am -- I have

to make my decisions in accordance with the guidelines

set forth in the Air Quality Control Act more

specifically, and then also within the guidelines set

forth in BART.

And to just recap, our guidelines and

implementation of the SIP are under the Air Quality

Control Act and not the Environmental Improvement Act,

and those guidelines are separate, and they do put on

this Board factors that we have to take into

consideration when we're making a decision to implement
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regulations under the Air Quality Control Act.

And those are character and degree of injury

to or interference with health, welfare, visibility and

property; two, the public interest, including the social

and economic value of the sources and subjects of air

contaminants; and, three, technical practicability and

economic reasonableness of reducing or eliminating air

contaminants from the sources involved; and previous

experience with equipment and methods available to

control the air contaminants involved.

We have heard -- and that -- and taking that

into consideration of the five factors that we must

weigh under BART, public health is not one of them, and

we do not have, you know, any technical testimony --

because of that, we do not have any technical testimony

or evidence to consider with regard to the impact of

that.

However, I do anticipate that in other

hearings and in other things that our Environmental

Department does, that we will be taking those into very

careful consideration.

But today, we are particularly focused on

visibility and the regional haze and specifically in

this area of the state, and also the economic

reasonableness and impact to the community, as well as
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the value of the resources in this community.

So all of that considered, members of the

Board, and those present today, my vote would be to

support the NMED's and PNM's proposal for the State

Implementation Plan.

And I would like to recognize the efforts by

the New Mexico Environmental Department to do its best

to really focus on what is best for our state and not

just let the federal government come in and tell us what

to do.

And I really appreciate all of the hard work

that you have done to do what is best for us and to keep

local -- what affects us locally local.

And as well as PNM for its efforts previously

spending the 320 million to improve its -- its

facilities and its output and to determine your own

destiny on how you want to be a member of our society

and productive and also your steps to even further that

with the SIP.

So thank you to PNM and the coal plant for

continuing to take steps to move that forward.

So that will be my vote today.

MS. PEACOCK: Any others?

MR. BRYCE: I'll go ahead and give my

thoughts.
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We've heard from a lot of people in public

comment and a lot of good information from those who are

also affected through the business world, and we've had

some people suggest that we should do less than SNCR,

that even the $77 million is -- for a little bit of

visibility doesn't seem like a wise investment.

We've got others saying they'd like to do the

maximum because they just want the cleanest air, they'd

love to have natural visibility today.

The hybrid, which is right in the middle,

proved to be not cost effective to invest that kind of

money for not that much more significant results than

the SNCR, it didn't seem very wise.

So it really did boil down to SNCR versus SCR,

which is where we started, of course.

The whole SIP -- you know, typically the Board

will spend a lot of time going through every single word

of the SIP. Seeing that we had a foot stack of papers,

we didn't spend probably quite as much time as all the

verbiage of the plan.

But it's obvious that we have to submit a SIP.

You know, that's our obligation. It should have

happened prior to now. To not approve it, have the FIP

go into place, I think, is a little bit negligent on our

part, to not do what the state should be doing, and this
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should be in our own control.

It's my thought that based on the five factors

of BART -- you know, visibility is great. I would love

to see pristine, clear air every time I walked on top of

a mountain or looked around and see the vistas.

You know, the $1 billion investment to get us

slightly improved air -- you know, I wish -- I wish it

was crystal clear, and, you know, it was just the way we

imagined it on the best day that we've ever been

outdoors. But to spend a billion dollars to get that

kind of view, the improvement is not significant.

To me, it seems obvious that we need to meet

the EPA threshold, we have to make some investment. A

$77 million investment is a much wiser investment in my

view than spending 10 times that amount.

I also would support the SIP and the SNCR

technology.

MS. PEACOCK: Anyone else?

MR. FULFER: I think you have to have a --

probably meetings like this to bring technology and

compliance to the forefront, especially technology, that

brings out what's available out there and keeps the

search for better technology, and I think we're going to

see that more and more for coal over the next few years.

The EPA system, I feel like, lacks
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all-encompassing and state-specific items. I think it's

unreasonable. Some of the testimony that was talked

about today as being marginal or excellence, I think the

excellence it's not obtained in one slice or one silver

bullet. I think it's something that's grown over time.

And so I think you have to -- you have to have

something in place and being working toward that all the

time. And I think the state does that in their -- in

their attempt here.

I think with New Mexico being one of the

poorest states in the state overall economy that we're

in, I think this is really -- the EPA method is

economically burdensome.

I think -- I think the state's plan may be

somewhat even burdensome in the fact that this company

has invested over $320 million and not considering all

the facts of what they've put in it at this time as far

as getting their investment. They've only had that

investment in a couple of years.

And how do you keep adding this on every two

years or what's -- so I feel like it -- there should be

at least like a five-year time span in instituting

another burden. I think that will create time for the

ratepayers to -- to -- they don't feel that burden. It

will give technology a time to catch up.
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I think we're going to see coal technology --

like I said a while ago, it's coming along fast -- at a

faster clip than we've seen in many years. The

cost/benefit ratio of the EPA plan, I feel like, is out

of balance. The economic cost to the state, the cities

and the counties is a severe burden to the people.

The health benefits, I think you have to take

those somewhat into consideration in thinking about it,

but I think electricity brings a lot of health benefits

to our modern times. The economic stimulus that it

brings, I think, brings our health up to another level.

I think the poorer our nation is, the worse the health

benefits are.

And so our nation's dependent on coal. I

think without it it's -- it would create a poorer

nation. So I really feel like the benefits to health to

having coal is -- far outweighs the not having.

I do support the state's plan. I think the

plan needs to give some time for good planning and

engineering. And I think it should be required to maybe

give it some time to -- for that engineering planning to

get -- before they have to institute that. And I do

support the plan.

MS. PEACOCK: Anyone else?

MR. CASCIANO: Yeah. I have some comments.
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First, I wanted to thank the technical

witnesses that came forward. There was a tremendous

volume of information, both regulatory and

technology-wise, that I thought the technical witnesses

did a very good job of sorting through that and

presenting summaries to the Board and asking -- or

answering questions.

I will be voting in favor of the state's

implementation plan for -- for several reasons. I was

concerned with the EPA questions to the state's plan,

but I was very impressed with the responses that the

state provided to EPA and think they addressed the list

of 20 or so questions that EPA had. So that helped me

in coming to this conclusion.

I would note that most of the public comment

was in favor of the state's plan. A great majority

today, less of a majority yesterday, but even the

nontechnical comments yesterday were more in favor of

the state's plan.

And those who spoke against the plan or for

the EPA proposal, many of those were in favor of clean

technology and energy alternatives, and I think it's --

it's our job to balance, and if we put too much money

into end of pipe control for pollutants that have

marginal benefits when it comes to visibility or public
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health improvements, then we lose out with that money

that we could apply to other more productive uses.

I was moved today by the comments from the

Native American community. I think it's very important

for us to remember, as Board Member Fulfer said, that

health outcomes in the US are the primary predictor or

the biggest factor in predicting negative health

income -- or outcomes. It is income level and

socioeconomic status.

So if you are a poor person in the United

States, you -- you have about twice the chance of

getting across a multitude of common diseases and causes

of death -- of getting those than if you are in a poor

socioeconomic strata.

So I think it's important that we keep

businesses healthy and alive and -- and that we be

sensitive to workers in a community.

So with that, I'll conclude my remarks by also

kind of giving my opinion on EPA's best available

control technology, in this case retrofit technology. I

think it's important that we remember -- and Mr. Cline

talked about this a little bit. I think the best really

in the regulations means the best for the situation at

hand. It doesn't mean the theoretical best or the

absolute best.
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EPA and the environmental rules really want us

to consider a number of factors and what is best kind of

considering everything for the particular situation.

Thank you.

MS. PEACOCK: Anyone else?

MR. VOLKERDING: I'll go.

Being from the Farmington area, I was happy to

hear, you know, from the public this morning, and as

Mr. Casciano pointed out, overwhelmingly the people in

this area up here today are in support of the New

Mexico's plan.

And I think it's -- something that, you know,

the Board has to consider is that, you know, we're --

we've heard testimony and public comment in terms of

alternative energy and green, and we've had people talk

about global warming and those kinds of things. And

those are all very important issues, but that's not

actually what this hearing is about.

This hearing is about whether this Board

approves the State Implementation Plan as presented.

And so I think it's important that we stay focused in

terms of what is before us.

As has been pointed out, you know, Congress,

when it came up with these rules, outlined what a state

should do in developing a SIP, and the New Mexico's
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proposal has done that.

And in response to the people that are

concerned about public health, I think Mr. Alvidrez

brought up an excellent point, there are a whole bunch

of other rules that come into play, and this is -- this

decision and this SIP is not done in a vacuum. There

are the National Ambient Air Quality Standards, there's

New Mexico air quality standards, there's other

performance standards for different types of equipment.

And so whatever decision the Board makes does

not invalidate any of those aspects that are out there

to also help and protect public health.

And so staying on point in terms of what is

before this Board, the state's SIP plan has met all of

the criteria that Congress laid out in the Clean Air

Act, it does reduce emissions from the PNM plant, and so

I also would be in support of the New Mexico plan.

MR. MORROW: Oh, I -- they've said everything

that I was going to say, so no sense taking up anybody

else's time.

But I am in support of what we're doing. I

appreciate hearing from both sides, we do need to hear

from both sides. But I think the decision that we make

today and the guidance we've had has been very good.

And that's all I'll say.
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MS. PEACOCK: Again, and I'll wrap it up.

I'm very impressed with the Environment

Department's work on this, with PNM's work, and the

engineers and the modeling that went into this, and also

how you -- you've played with EPA and responding to them

and getting them involved, and it just seems to be a

very complete process to me, and it's a process that

does belong in the state.

And that's why, as well, I'm going to be

voting for the SIP.

So we've heard from everybody.

Can I -- will somebody make a motion?

MR. MORROW: I so move.

MS. RYAN: Second.

MS. PEACOCK: All in favor.

(Simultaneous responses.)

MS. PEACOCK: Okay. Unanimous to approve the

SIP.

And because of what -- upon approval of the

SIP, we now move -- need to move into 11-02 and have a

hearing on that.

MS. ORTH: Yes, Madam Chair.

MS. PEACOCK: So I'll turn it over to

Ms. Orth.

(Proceedings adjourned at 12:33 p.m.)
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STATE OF NEW MEXICO )

) ss.

COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

I, CHERYL ARREGUIN, the officer before whom the

foregoing proceeding was taken, do hereby certify that

the witnesses whose testimony appears in the foregoing

transcript were duly sworn or affirmed; that I

personally recorded the testimony by machine shorthand;

that said transcript is a true record of the testimony

given by said witnesses; that I am neither attorney nor

counsel for, nor related to or employed by any of the

parties to the action in which this proceeding is taken,

and that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially

interested in the action.

 

NOTARY PUBLIC

CCR License Number: 21

Expires: 12/31/2011

My Commission Expires: 12/12/11
$

$11 [1] - 192:9

$116 [1] - 242:25

$12 [1] - 213:17

$150 [1] - 243:2

$30 [1] - 196:22

$320 [4] - 188:20,

281:15, 285:9, 306:16

$383,000 [1] - 243:21

$46 [1] - 243:6

$49 [1] - 243:8

$700 [1] - 292:15

$75 [1] - 292:14

$750 [1] - 213:15

$77 [5] - 213:17,

295:18, 296:8, 304:5,

305:14

$8.62 [1] - 242:25

$82 [1] - 209:7

$85 [7] - 191:5,

191:7, 191:13,

191:18, 192:9,

192:11, 213:16

$93 [1] - 242:13

'

'01 [1] - 281:19

'03 [1] - 281:19

'74 [1] - 248:2

'76 [1] - 185:12

'77 [1] - 229:5

'mix' [1] - 222:4

1

1 [5] - 180:10,

184:15, 213:16,

243:17, 305:6

1,000 [1] - 213:24

1,038 [1] - 242:11

10 [5] - 191:16,

209:18, 286:8,

289:18, 305:15

100 [1] - 191:16

11 [4] - 192:13,

211:11, 240:2, 243:10

11-01 [3] - 181:6,

290:5, 300:17

11-01(R [2] - 174:3,

212:15

11-02 [1] - 312:20

1100 [1] - 176:5

1190 [2] - 175:4,

175:19

11:38 [1] - 289:25

11:57 [1] - 290:1

12/12/11 [1] - 313:22

12/31/2011 [1] -

313:20

122 [2] - 196:23,

214:3

12:33 [1] - 312:25

13 [1] - 259:23

15-minute [1] -

289:18

1508 [1] - 175:13

169A [1] - 223:19

169B [1] - 223:20

18 [2] - 215:4, 215:5

184 [1] - 177:5

187 [1] - 177:7

18th [1] - 206:9

19 [1] - 293:21

190 [1] - 177:9

193 [1] - 177:11

1964 [1] - 200:6

197 [1] - 177:13

1971 [1] - 268:8

1972 [2] - 239:22,

239:23

1974 [1] - 247:22

1976 [1] - 185:10

1977 [2] - 220:23,

291:23

1980 [4] - 220:24,

221:19, 222:24,

291:20

1980s [1] - 221:12

1999 [2] - 205:22,

229:6

2

2 [4] - 174:24, 246:7,

281:3, 285:3

2.5 [2] - 279:7,

279:12

20 [7] - 195:6, 195:7,

204:7, 206:2, 242:4,

251:25, 308:13

200 [1] - 176:11

2001 [2] - 281:3,

282:3

2003 [3] - 274:25,

282:3, 293:13

2004 [2] - 218:14,

230:4

2005 [7] - 229:7,

280:25, 281:15,

282:8, 291:25, 292:6,

297:9

2006 [2] - 198:2,

199:9

2009 [6] - 213:2,

218:15, 243:19,

257:5, 280:25, 281:15

2010 [5] - 199:18,

209:12, 242:10,

242:23, 243:6

2011 [5] - 174:16,

180:10, 185:10,

206:20, 243:19

2018 [1] - 230:4

202 [1] - 177:15

205 [1] - 177:17

2050 [1] - 203:1

2053 [1] - 206:6

2064 [1] - 264:18

207 [1] - 177:19

20th [1] - 185:2

21 [2] - 192:13,

313:20

210 [1] - 177:21

212 [1] - 177:23

214 [1] - 177:25

217 [1] - 178:5

219 [1] - 180:5

22 [1] - 261:10

227 [1] - 178:6

23 [4] - 209:13,

282:20, 283:16

2307 [1] - 176:16

234 [2] - 178:7, 178:8

235 [1] - 178:9

239 [1] - 178:11

24 [1] - 243:9

240 [1] - 180:4

245 [1] - 178:13

247 [1] - 178:15

249 [1] - 178:17

25 [3] - 212:18,

282:25, 283:19

251 [1] - 178:19

255 [2] - 178:21,

209:15

259 [1] - 178:23

265 [1] - 178:25

268 [1] - 179:5

27,000 [1] - 259:22

276 [1] - 179:7

28 [1] - 260:8

280,000 [1] - 259:21

286 [1] - 179:9

289 [1] - 180:10

2nd [1] - 174:16

3

3 [4] - 242:14, 281:3,

282:14, 282:20

30 [3] - 214:2,

218:10, 260:9

30-plus [1] - 185:6

300 [1] - 176:10

309 [3] - 293:13,

293:15, 293:19

309(g [2] - 293:15,

293:19

31 [1] - 260:7

32 [1] - 260:10

320 [1] - 303:15

325 [1] - 176:17

33 [1] - 209:12

34 [1] - 243:21

4

4 [2] - 282:13, 283:13

4,000 [1] - 196:8

4,500 [1] - 272:9

40 [4] - 202:21,

203:12, 206:3, 260:4

400 [1] - 268:12

42 [1] - 212:18

44 [1] - 188:22

45 [1] - 261:11

4601 [1] - 174:19

48 [1] - 260:3

4th [1] - 296:18

5

5 [1] - 285:3

5,000 [2] - 246:17,

296:12

50 [4] - 191:16,

206:13, 209:12,

242:22

50-year [1] - 243:18

500 [2] - 176:5,

268:12

505 [4] - 175:14,

176:6, 176:12, 176:18

529 [1] - 243:5

5469 [1] - 175:18

575 [1] - 175:20

598-4358 [1] - 176:12

6

6 [4] - 213:14, 262:2,

264:6, 272:16

60 [1] - 260:12

600 [2] - 209:13,

209:17

63 [2] - 188:7, 242:13

7

7.1 [1] - 211:14

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70 [1] - 194:2

70-something [1] -

188:23

700 [1] - 191:16

71 [2] - 188:23,

211:11

7103 [1] - 174:19

715 [1] - 211:12

75 [1] - 242:9

750 [1] - 232:23

779-1627 [1] - 175:20

8

8 [1] - 211:13

80 [2] - 268:14

80s [1] - 192:15

824-4737 [1] - 176:6

827-6040 [1] - 175:14

83 [1] - 207:24

86 [1] - 260:11

87102 [1] - 176:6

87401 [1] - 176:11

87501 [1] - 175:5

87502-5469 [1] -

175:20

87504-1508 [1] -

175:13

87504-2307 [1] -

176:17

9

9 [1] - 262:19

900 [1] - 276:12

90s [1] - 192:15

953 [4] - 240:3,

242:18, 249:21,

256:21

982-3873 [1] - 176:18

9:08 [1] - 174:20

A

a.m [3] - 174:20,

289:25, 290:1

abate [1] - 201:14

abide [1] - 257:7

abided [1] - 257:3

able [17] - 186:5,

191:8, 196:15,

202:17, 203:22,

216:18, 235:6, 242:6,

252:8, 253:9, 254:1,

254:2, 254:20,

255:16, 281:8,

286:10, 296:4

absolute [1] - 309:25
absolutely [3] -

285:16, 295:5, 301:10

absorb [2] - 203:25,

204:1

academics [1] -

199:16

accept [3] - 181:10,

247:3, 294:12

accommodate [2] -

190:5, 225:9

accompanies [1] -

194:19

accordance [1] -

301:16

according [2] -

225:24, 250:10

account [11] -

219:18, 242:14,

277:17, 277:20,

277:21, 278:5,

280:13, 280:15,

281:9, 281:16

accurate [1] - 291:21

accurately [1] -

291:7

achieve [7] - 186:24,

187:1, 235:9, 236:17,

236:18, 264:17,

283:25

achieved [3] -

189:11, 230:12,

235:11

achieves [1] - 186:8

act [9] - 200:2,

236:13, 272:20,

291:8, 291:13,

291:14, 291:22,

292:24, 298:23

Act [24] - 200:6,

205:20, 208:14,

218:5, 218:9, 220:7,

222:2, 222:6, 223:17,

223:19, 235:22,

235:25, 236:1, 237:2,

291:5, 291:13,

295:15, 295:16,

298:19, 301:17,

301:22, 302:1, 311:16

action [14] - 189:8,

198:12, 199:24,

200:1, 201:13,

211:17, 270:1,

272:15, 272:24,

274:25, 298:21,

299:15, 313:14,

313:17

actions [2] - 215:18,

215:24

actively [1] - 243:14

activities [1] - 198:5

acts [1] - 200:9

actual [2] - 184:24,

222:4

actuality [1] - 228:4

ad [1] - 197:25

add [7] - 211:3,

270:24, 281:15,

291:18, 291:24,

300:5, 300:6

add-ons [1] - 281:15

adding [2] - 192:14,

306:20

addition [5] - 195:8,

213:19, 217:17,

243:2, 279:14

additional [8] -

181:10, 261:22,

271:4, 271:9, 278:4,

281:16, 281:23,

283:18

additionally [1] -

280:12

additions [1] -

239:17

additive [1] - 283:10

address [14] -

206:15, 206:18,

206:22, 208:2,

211:24, 220:13,

236:3, 255:2, 262:13,

274:17, 275:3, 282:2,

290:25, 293:3

addressed [6] -

213:8, 213:13,

220:25, 221:12,

290:20, 308:12

addresses [2] -

274:20, 274:21

addressing [4] -

211:21, 211:25,

274:15, 298:20

adjourned [1] -

312:25

administration [1] -

242:7

administrator[2] -

181:6, 181:22

admission [2] -

240:6, 288:7

admissions [1] -

209:14

admit [1] - 274:15

admits [1] - 274:23

ADMITTED [1] -

180:2

admitted [6] - 219:7,

219:9, 240:11,

240:13, 289:9, 289:10

adopt [12] - 195:11,

213:9, 214:7, 217:19,

226:13, 235:8, 236:8,

256:5, 257:25,

271:22, 272:15,

272:20

adopted [2] - 222:4,

233:9

adopting [2] -

194:13, 298:5

adoption [3] -

219:14, 234:11,

298:21

adopts [1] - 275:2

adverse [1] - 226:1

advisor [1] - 240:1

advocated [1] -

198:10

aerosols [2] -

277:22, 279:18

Affairs [1] - 199:14

affairs [2] - 239:25,

240:4

affect [6] - 223:3,

246:9, 254:17,

256:11, 256:15,

257:17

affected [3] - 184:2,

256:24, 304:3

affects [6] - 256:12,

256:19, 257:11,

257:14, 293:3, 303:13

affirmed [25] - 184:9,

187:21, 190:16,

193:5, 197:16, 202:2,

205:2, 207:7, 210:19,

212:6, 214:19,

216:25, 217:5, 239:7,

245:2, 247:13,

249:11, 251:10,

255:20, 258:13,

259:2, 265:2, 268:2,

276:3, 313:9

afford [1] - 204:19

age [2] - 200:15

Agency [7] - 176:14,

182:12, 199:13,

200:1, 241:20, 259:7,

259:10

agency [3] - 199:21,

200:7, 233:4

agency's [2] -

200:10, 221:7

agent [1] - 268:9

agents [1] - 198:4

ago [7] - 188:19,

227:11, 253:24,

254:5, 273:2, 284:2,

307:2

agree [2] - 192:7,

301:4

agreed [2] - 230:15,

301:11

agriculture [1] -

265:8

ahead [4] - 202:25,

203:1, 274:9, 303:24

aimed [1] - 211:7

Air [27] - 180:8,

201:12, 205:20,

208:14, 218:5, 218:9,

220:7, 222:6, 223:17,

223:19, 235:22,

235:25, 236:1, 237:2,

250:11, 288:14,

291:5, 291:13, 293:3,

295:15, 298:19,

301:17, 301:21,

302:1, 311:7, 311:15

air [31] - 185:9,

185:15, 186:2,

186:22, 187:1,

198:16, 198:24,

199:1, 199:10,

199:15, 200:13,

208:2, 208:24, 209:1,

210:5, 216:2, 237:12,

246:11, 250:12,

265:14, 266:3,

277:16, 278:22,

297:18, 302:5, 302:7,

302:10, 304:8, 305:4,

305:7, 311:8

Albuquerque [2] -

176:6, 184:21

alive [1] - 309:16

all-encompassing

[1] - 306:1

Alleged [1] - 288:5

alleged [1] - 236:11

Alliance [2] - 205:14,

212:22

allow [3] - 215:22,

222:25, 290:15

allowed [2] - 265:18,

288:25

allowing [1] - 193:19

allows [1] - 263:11

allusion [1] - 235:18

almost [3] - 208:16,

211:15, 296:12

alternative [3] -

191:23, 222:23,

310:15

alternatives [1] -

308:22

Alvidrez [14] - 179:9,

181:23, 182:1, 182:3,

183:11, 226:22,

244:5, 271:16,

286:19, 288:3,

289:20, 294:1,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

2

298:11, 311:3

ALVIDREZ [24] -

176:3, 182:2, 183:2,

226:23, 244:6,

269:13, 269:20,

269:24, 271:19,

272:1, 275:17,

275:21, 284:25,

285:16, 285:18,

286:1, 286:3, 286:20,

286:23, 286:24,

287:3, 287:10,

287:18, 294:2

Ambient [2] - 293:3,

311:7

amend [1] - 230:24

amendments [1] -

291:23

America [1] - 255:11

American [3] -

242:14, 250:10, 309:4

ammonia [1] -

280:16

amount [5] - 188:16,

211:19, 295:21,

296:12, 305:15

amounts [1] - 265:14

analyses [3] -

228:13, 278:5, 281:12

analysis [15] -

223:22, 224:14,

224:15, 238:19,

273:4, 273:15,

273:16, 273:18,

277:3, 277:17,

277:25, 279:16,

282:9, 292:22, 298:18

Analysis [2] - 180:7,

288:14

analytical [1] - 224:9

analyze [2] - 264:10,

295:7

ANDREW [1] -

176:15

announced [1] -

215:3

Annual [1] - 250:11

answer [7] - 187:10,

223:5, 231:2, 273:13,

273:14, 275:2, 295:12

answering [1] -

308:7

answers [1] - 280:19

anticipate [1] -

302:18

anxious [1] - 270:1

anyway [2] - 253:6,

267:9

Appendix [1] - 285:3

applauded [1] -
226:6

apple [2] - 225:20,

235:1

application [3] -

225:7, 235:23, 279:8

apply [1] - 309:2

applying [1] - 226:6

appointed [1] - 181:3

appraisal [1] -

206:22

appreciate [7] -

205:11, 227:7,

248:13, 300:14,

301:12, 303:11,

311:22

approach [3] -

194:16, 222:22,

225:22

appropriate [15] -

195:14, 222:21,

225:8, 230:10,

231:25, 252:19,

296:24, 297:1,

297:11, 297:16,

297:18, 298:2, 298:4,

298:22, 299:15

appropriately [1] -

220:12

approval [5] -

228:24, 230:21,

233:13, 298:8, 312:19

approve [8] - 228:8,

229:18, 230:22,

233:17, 293:19,

304:23, 312:17

approved [4] -

228:23, 229:9,

273:16, 297:4

approves [1] -

310:20

approving [1] -

229:10

April [1] - 296:18

APS [4] - 215:19,

256:17, 256:25,

257:10

AQC [4] - 279:5,

279:15, 281:12, 282:8

area [46] - 188:5,

188:21, 188:25,

198:4, 198:13,

198:16, 198:17,

198:20, 198:23,

198:25, 200:4,

200:17, 201:11,

201:14, 213:23,

214:6, 216:3, 245:20,

246:17, 246:23,

248:1, 250:3, 250:14,

252:16, 256:16,

268:8, 268:11,

268:24, 269:3, 269:7,

276:11, 277:4, 281:5,

283:10, 284:10,

284:14, 285:5, 295:9,

297:8, 299:4, 299:6,

299:8, 299:12,

302:24, 310:7, 310:10

area's [1] - 208:24

areas [10] - 197:2,

209:23, 211:15,

224:7, 279:1, 281:5,

283:4, 284:5, 290:21,

293:15

argue [1] - 289:4

arguments [3] -

289:19, 290:8, 300:9

Arizona [4] - 185:3,

256:14, 259:23,

268:18

Arms [2] - 240:22,

240:23

ARREGUIN [1] -

313:6

Arreguin [2] -

181:18, 181:19

Arrington [1] -

176:10

arriving [1] - 190:1

article [1] - 199:17

aside [1] - 220:13

aspects [2] - 238:4,

311:11

assist [3] - 245:18,

253:14, 254:15

assistance [1] -

185:19

Assistant [1] -

175:11

associated [4] -

185:22, 265:24,

266:15, 287:11

associates [1] -

257:6

association [2] -

198:1, 198:6

Association's [1] -

250:10

assume [2] - 202:13,

286:25

assumption [1] -

271:3

assumptions [1] -

264:10

assure [1] - 222:1

asthma [2] - 209:13,

266:6

attached [2] - 285:1,

296:16

Attachment [1] -

296:17

attack [1] - 196:12

attacks [2] - 209:13

attainment [2] -

206:17, 209:3

attempt [2] - 277:1,

306:9

attempted [1] -

294:24

attending [1] -

244:16

attention [3] -

199:22, 222:15,

245:11

Attorney [2] -

175:11, 175:12

attorney [2] - 313:12,

313:15

Attorneys [2] -

176:4, 176:16

attractions [1] -

198:19

attractive [1] -

198:17

attractiveness [1] -

198:24

attributable [2] -

221:1, 263:15

attributes [1] - 279:2

audience [1] -

285:15

August [3] - 230:20,

231:13, 272:19

Authority [2] - 215:2,

256:9

authority [3] - 209:1,

222:9, 259:14

available [12] -

181:21, 220:14,

220:18, 252:20,

267:6, 276:8, 278:6,

280:16, 284:3, 302:9,

305:22, 309:19

Available [4] -

205:25, 206:2,

220:14, 241:16

average [2] - 195:17,

213:17

awarded [1] - 243:21

aware [2] - 228:19,

262:17

awful [1] - 254:10

Aztec [1] - 245:16

B

B-as-in-boy-E-N-NA-L-L-E-Y [1] - 251:16

B-E-N-A-L-L-Y [1] -

256:1

bachelor[1] - 218:7

bachelor's [1] -

242:6

background [3] -

217:23, 239:20, 284:6

backstop [1] - 230:7

backwards [1] -

257:7

BACT [2] - 234:4,

234:6

bad [4] - 186:3,

186:6, 248:15, 257:17

baghouse [1] - 257:5

balance [25] -

185:16, 186:1, 186:7,

186:8, 186:24,

186:25, 195:4,

195:14, 195:22,

197:6, 220:4, 222:18,

222:20, 223:9,

223:11, 237:6,

246:12, 246:22,

290:23, 292:17,

295:10, 298:4, 307:5,

308:23

balanced [1] -

194:16

balances [1] -

250:24

balancing [4] -

219:20, 223:24,

291:2, 291:4

Bandelier [1] -

211:13

bargaining [2] -

240:2, 242:17

BART [89] - 194:24,

218:20, 219:14,

219:19, 220:9, 221:4,

221:13, 221:16,

221:18, 222:9,

222:14, 222:19,

222:24, 223:1, 223:3,

223:5, 223:22, 224:5,

224:8, 224:14,

224:19, 224:24,

225:1, 225:6, 225:7,

225:11, 225:14,

225:23, 226:3, 226:9,

226:10, 228:19,

229:3, 229:9, 229:11,

229:15, 230:5, 230:9,

230:14, 231:10,

232:9, 232:11,

232:13, 232:16,

232:19, 232:21,

232:22, 233:17,

234:4, 234:8, 235:7,

235:21, 237:14,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

3

241:21, 241:23,

262:3, 262:4, 262:15,

262:18, 262:20,

262:21, 262:23,

263:3, 263:9, 263:24,

264:2, 272:11, 273:4,

274:9, 281:23,

282:18, 285:25,

291:8, 291:16,

291:19, 292:1,

292:12, 293:1, 293:9,

293:11, 294:16,

294:23, 296:19,

297:13, 297:17,

301:19, 302:13, 305:3

BARTs [1] - 233:9

base [1] - 280:17

based [10] - 194:12,

220:6, 220:10, 232:9,

238:12, 245:20,

265:23, 275:4,

286:15, 305:2

baseline [12] - 264:9,

278:1, 278:12, 279:5,

279:14, 279:15,

280:24, 281:11,

281:12, 281:18,

282:2, 283:2

basic [1] - 223:21

basing [1] - 267:3

basis [4] - 219:20,

220:20, 279:15,

279:19

basket [1] - 225:4

BE [1] - 174:16

bear [2] - 203:21,

203:22

beautiful [4] - 184:4,

246:23, 254:4, 266:23

beauty [1] - 259:25

become [1] - 202:19

becomes [1] -

181:20

befits [1] - 198:16

BEFORE [1] - 174:1

began [1] - 204:9

begin [1] - 182:25

beginning [1] - 183:8

behalf [7] - 182:3,

219:12, 240:25,

253:13, 259:9,

268:23, 294:12

behind [4] - 202:11,

227:11, 238:23,

265:19

beings [1] - 186:10

believes [1] - 295:10

belong [1] - 312:8

below [2] - 208:4,

260:4
BENALLY [6] -

178:10, 178:20,

216:24, 239:6,

255:19, 255:25

Benally [11] - 180:4,

239:5, 239:11,

240:14, 244:11,

244:14, 255:25,

256:1, 256:2, 258:2,

299:19

Benally's [1] - 240:7

benefit [5] - 209:21,

209:24, 253:25,

254:2, 283:12

benefits [13] -

185:23, 236:7,

236:17, 237:10,

241:25, 257:1,

292:25, 307:7, 307:9,

307:13, 307:16,

308:25

Bennalley [6] -

251:8, 251:16,

251:21, 255:17,

256:3, 299:22

BENNALLEY [4] -

178:18, 251:9,

251:15, 251:18

bent [1] - 257:7

BERNALILLO [1] -

313:3

best [22] - 202:24,

203:2, 203:14,

203:15, 204:17,

204:20, 220:14,

220:17, 220:18,

220:19, 241:22,

248:14, 303:7, 303:8,

303:12, 305:9,

309:19, 309:22,

309:23, 309:24,

309:25, 310:2

Best [4] - 205:25,

206:2, 220:14, 241:16

better [10] - 186:17,

203:13, 222:23,

236:11, 248:2,

253:11, 259:16,

264:8, 264:10, 305:23

betterment [1] -

283:1

between [16] - 192:3,

192:9, 195:14,

213:10, 220:4,

246:12, 248:4,

279:14, 279:15,

280:9, 281:15, 283:6,

284:19, 285:12,

286:6, 292:9

beyond [3] - 203:16,

228:4, 252:5

BHP [14] - 176:10,

182:17, 216:11,

239:22, 240:5, 241:3,

242:4, 242:8, 243:19,

250:9, 253:8, 256:17,

256:24, 257:10

Bible [1] - 238:18

big [7] - 191:6,

192:10, 195:25,

230:13, 237:25,

256:15, 257:20

bigger [2] - 192:5,

199:1

biggest [1] - 309:7

bill [2] - 195:18,

256:8

Bill [3] - 182:7,

192:6, 212:11

BILL [3] - 175:17,

177:22, 212:5

bill.grantham@

state.nm.us [1] -

175:21

billion [7] - 213:16,

285:11, 285:13,

285:23, 295:1, 305:6,

305:10

billions [1] - 248:5

Billiton [9] - 176:10,

182:17, 216:11,

239:22, 240:5, 241:3,

242:5, 242:8, 243:19

bills [1] - 191:5

binding [1] - 272:8

bit [11] - 184:16,

184:18, 217:22,

229:20, 232:6,

239:19, 294:15,

296:21, 304:5,

304:24, 309:22

bite [1] - 234:25

bites [1] - 225:19

Black [8] - 233:15,

263:16, 270:8,

271:14, 273:7,

275:23, 280:21,

287:20

black [1] - 236:20

blessed [2] - 253:22,

253:24

blew [1] - 185:3

Bloomfield [1] -

245:16

blowing [4] - 254:9,

257:22, 276:12,

276:13

blown [1] - 276:18

BOARD [4] - 174:1,

227:4, 235:16, 276:6

board [2] - 246:2,

294:6

Board [101] - 174:18,

175:6, 178:6, 178:9,

179:7, 181:3, 181:6,

181:11, 181:16,

183:3, 183:12,

183:13, 183:23,

187:13, 189:25,

195:11, 197:5,

201:13, 202:14,

207:18, 210:7, 211:1,

212:20, 215:24,

216:10, 217:22,

218:1, 219:16,

219:22, 223:15,

225:19, 227:2, 227:8,

233:6, 233:20,

233:21, 235:3, 235:8,

237:21, 240:15,

240:18, 244:10,

244:15, 245:10,

245:21, 248:25,

249:19, 251:19,

251:20, 256:5,

262:17, 270:1, 270:4,

270:12, 270:15,

271:4, 271:8, 272:3,

272:14, 272:20,

272:25, 273:8,

273:10, 275:2, 275:9,

286:13, 287:3,

289:11, 289:22,

290:13, 290:24,

293:10, 293:18,

293:22, 294:3,

294:19, 295:4, 296:4,

296:16, 298:5,

298:14, 298:20,

298:25, 299:2, 299:6,

299:14, 300:9,

300:19, 301:2,

301:11, 301:15,

301:24, 303:3,

304:16, 308:6, 309:5,

310:13, 310:19,

311:10, 311:14

Board's [6] - 219:13,

236:23, 248:13,

272:15, 298:7, 299:18

bodies [1] - 299:11

bogus [1] - 228:14

boil [1] - 304:14

boiler [2] - 226:3,

282:23

bones [1] - 228:10

book [1] - 273:19

border [1] - 188:6

borders [1] - 208:6

born [1] - 184:20

borne [1] - 214:10

bought [3] - 252:25,

253:1, 265:7

Boulevard [1] -

174:19

boundaries [2] -

241:8, 259:22

box [1] - 227:21

Box [2] - 175:18,

176:16

boy [1] - 251:16

branch [1] - 259:8

break [5] - 287:25,

289:18, 289:24,

290:2, 290:4

breaks [1] - 209:17

breathe [1] - 186:5

breathing [1] - 266:6

brief [1] - 290:15

briefing [1] - 270:20

briefly [2] - 223:21,

298:13

bright [1] - 228:15

brilliant [1] - 186:4

bring [8] - 209:24,

211:4, 242:3, 247:5,

267:11, 269:8,

284:21, 305:20

brings [6] - 195:4,

232:6, 305:22, 307:9,

307:11

broad [2] - 219:17,

220:16

broader [1] - 225:13

Broncos [1] - 252:3

brought [2] - 292:10,

311:4

BROWN [4] - 177:12,

197:15, 197:21,

197:24

brown [2] - 201:16,

287:14

Brown [1] - 197:21

Bryce [1] - 231:16

BRYCE [5] - 175:9,

231:17, 232:1,

285:14, 303:24

budgets [1] - 195:21

build [2] - 191:15,

238:24

Building [1] - 175:4

building [2] - 276:13,

280:12

built [1] - 215:8

bullet [1] - 306:5

bunch [2] - 231:4,

311:4

burden [3] - 306:23,

306:24, 307:6

burdensome [2] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

4

306:13, 306:15

Bureau [2] - 199:14,

201:12

burners [1] - 297:18

burning [1] - 263:20

business [8] - 187:8,

212:17, 242:7,

243:13, 250:5, 268:9,

294:7, 304:3

businesses [2] -

257:12, 309:16

buy [1] - 204:13

buys [1] - 256:10

BY [10] - 217:8,

219:10, 227:4, 234:2,

234:22, 235:16,

239:10, 240:14,

276:6, 286:23

C

C-L-I-N-E [1] - 217:3

C-O-L-L-I-N-S [1] -

207:12

C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D

[1] - 210:25

calculations [1] -

238:7

calendar[3] -

242:10, 242:23, 243:6

California [1] - 185:4

camp [1] - 253:4

campaigns [1] -

243:16

cannot [1] - 185:1

Canyonlands [2] -

284:15, 284:20

capacity [1] - 218:11

capita [1] - 209:18

captures [1] - 285:19

cards [1] - 187:8

care [1] - 209:15

career [1] - 299:20

careful [1] - 302:21

carefully [2] - 196:1,

267:3

cares [1] - 299:5

carry [2] - 208:8,

232:24

CASCIANO [7] -

175:8, 235:17,

236:21, 237:7,

237:15, 288:20,

307:25

Casciano [2] -

288:24, 310:9

case [19] - 192:4,

192:19, 217:10,

220:18, 220:20,
228:18, 233:19,

239:13, 240:7,

257:16, 266:5,

270:17, 270:20,

289:9, 291:13, 294:5,

294:11, 309:20

Case [1] - 212:15

case-by-case [1] -

220:20

cases [3] - 186:17,

297:5, 297:11

catastrophic [1] -

196:6

catch [1] - 306:25

causes [1] - 309:12

caves [1] - 186:21

CCR [1] - 313:20

Center [1] - 200:20

Central [1] - 252:3

certain [6] - 196:7,

222:7, 238:9, 247:23,

279:2, 281:5

certainly [14] - 188:8,

228:5, 233:11,

235:12, 265:21,

267:5, 269:25, 270:5,

270:14, 271:19,

275:17, 289:5, 295:2,

298:2

certify [1] - 313:7

cetera [1] - 195:20

Chaco [1] - 198:3

chair [1] - 300:11

Chair [2] - 294:3,

312:22

chairman [1] -

193:21

Chairman [3] -

211:1, 216:10, 217:25

challenges [1] -

226:2

chance [2] - 235:3,

309:11

change [7] - 203:6,

279:7, 280:1, 280:9,

284:19, 286:8, 286:9

changed [3] - 229:6,

231:20, 248:3

changes [2] - 255:8,

285:21

Changing [1] - 201:3

changing [1] - 257:8

chapter [2] - 251:22,

251:25

Chapter [1] - 252:21

chapters [2] -

251:23, 299:23

character [1] - 302:2

characteristic [1] -

287:11

characteristics [3] -

280:10, 281:13,

281:17

CHARLES [1] - 176:9

Charles [2] - 182:17,

216:11

charles.ce.roybal@

bhpbilliton.com [1] -

176:12

charts [1] - 211:22

cheap [1] - 204:15

cheapest [1] -

202:23

chemical [1] - 218:7

CHERYL [1] - 313:6

Cheryl [1] - 181:18

children [5] - 203:16,

252:11, 254:20,

257:12, 266:4

China [2] - 185:4,

255:7

choice [2] - 202:20,

203:7

choices [3] - 191:25,

250:18

choke [1] - 186:5

choose [2] - 181:11,

222:1

chose [1] - 281:17

chosen [1] - 279:20

circumstances [5] -

219:19, 223:1,

223:25, 225:9, 229:23

Cities [1] - 245:16

cities [2] - 250:12,

307:5

citizens [1] - 250:22

Citizens [1] - 205:14

city [5] - 184:16,

184:17, 204:6, 245:22

City [1] - 188:5

Civil [2] - 175:12,

200:6

claim [1] - 252:22

Clan [7] - 240:19,

240:20, 240:21,

240:22, 240:23

clarifications [1] -

233:23

clarify [2] - 233:8,

272:4

Class [10] - 211:15,

224:6, 279:1, 283:3,

283:10, 284:5,

284:10, 284:13,

290:21, 293:15

CLAYTON [3] -

178:20, 255:19, 256:1

Clayton [1] - 255:25

clean [14] - 185:15,

186:2, 186:22, 187:1,

189:16, 203:20,

250:12, 266:22,

267:13, 308:21

Clean [17] - 205:20,

208:14, 218:5, 218:9,

220:7, 222:6, 223:17,

223:19, 235:22,

235:25, 236:1, 237:2,

291:5, 291:13,

295:15, 298:19,

311:15

cleaned [1] - 185:5

cleaner [2] - 208:2,

210:10

cleanest [2] -

250:12, 304:8

clear [6] - 192:4,

223:5, 226:8, 230:5,

305:4, 305:8

clearer [1] - 192:4

clearly [3] - 185:7,

231:3, 288:6

clients [1] - 218:18

Cline [24] - 180:5,

216:21, 217:2, 217:9,

218:2, 219:10,

226:15, 226:20,

227:6, 231:17, 233:8,

234:3, 234:16,

234:23, 235:18,

239:2, 239:3, 275:6,

291:6, 291:16,

298:25, 299:3,

299:14, 309:21

CLINE [17] - 178:4,

216:24, 217:2, 217:4,

227:23, 228:25,

229:2, 229:22, 231:1,

231:21, 232:18,

233:11, 235:24,

237:1, 237:9, 238:1,

238:14

Cline's [2] - 218:22,

298:18

clip [1] - 307:3

clock [1] - 231:7

close [12] - 181:12,

215:19, 215:24,

215:25, 252:10,

254:20, 263:23,

269:11, 269:22,

289:13, 289:17, 300:3

closed [1] - 290:7

closely [3] - 194:16,

211:8, 299:23

closest [2] - 252:22,

286:10

closing [8] - 215:4,

270:21, 289:19,

290:8, 290:16,

297:24, 298:12, 300:9

closure [4] - 263:13,

263:15, 263:16, 288:1

clouds [1] - 276:13

CO2 [2] - 276:17,

276:21

COAL [1] - 180:3

Coal [21] - 176:8,

176:9, 182:18,

182:25, 196:17,

197:12, 201:19,

213:20, 214:16,

216:8, 216:12,

216:19, 217:14,

219:13, 226:12,

240:5, 241:1, 241:2,

242:10, 242:23

coal [34] - 185:22,

189:12, 194:1, 194:7,

196:12, 203:4,

206:24, 208:9, 210:4,

214:2, 215:11,

215:13, 215:16,

224:12, 228:20,

233:12, 241:7, 241:9,

249:21, 249:22,

250:4, 260:15,

260:16, 260:17,

260:22, 260:23,

263:20, 297:22,

303:20, 305:24,

307:1, 307:14, 307:17

coal-fired [9] -

189:12, 196:12,

203:4, 208:9, 210:4,

215:16, 224:12,

228:20, 233:12

coalition [1] - 218:15

coast [1] - 254:9

Code [1] - 255:13

cold [1] - 246:19

collaborate [1] -

255:1

collaboration [1] -

264:7

collateral [1] - 236:6

college [1] - 252:14

College [4] - 174:18,

174:19, 216:16,

267:14

COLLINS [4] -

177:18, 207:3, 207:6,

207:12

Collins [2] - 207:12,

210:14

color [1] - 287:10

Colorado [5] - 188:6,

207:18, 208:10,

268:18, 284:14

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

5

combined [1] - 210:3

combusted [1] -

297:22

combustion [3] -

281:16, 297:2, 297:17

comfort [2] - 298:21,

299:14

coming [16] - 184:6,

202:25, 203:2, 203:6,

209:3, 237:17,

243:23, 244:16,

254:3, 268:18, 277:2,

278:11, 290:4,

298:15, 307:2, 308:14

commendable [1] -

294:9

commends [1] -

299:6

comment [32] -

181:9, 181:11,

181:14, 183:5,

183:15, 183:22,

183:25, 184:7,

188:10, 190:10,

197:12, 201:19,

210:16, 214:14,

223:16, 229:24,

232:5, 244:19, 247:7,

248:20, 249:8, 258:4,

263:25, 269:10,

269:14, 269:16,

273:1, 288:22, 304:2,

308:15, 310:14

commenters [1] -

244:22

comments [20] -

185:8, 211:4, 219:22,

231:23, 250:7,

255:16, 259:10,

262:21, 270:6,

270:21, 272:10,

273:2, 285:2, 294:18,

298:12, 300:14,

301:12, 307:25,

308:18, 309:3

Comments [2] -

288:4, 288:5

commission [1] -

207:4

Commission [3] -

193:22, 212:19,

313:22

commissioner[2] -

190:1, 246:6

Commissioner[1] -

190:10

commitment [1] -

206:14

committed [1] -

243:12
common [1] - 309:12

commonly [1] -

287:11

commonwealth [1] -

218:2

communication [1] -

186:20

communities [2] -

200:21, 262:14

community [28] -

194:25, 196:14,

205:16, 205:19,

206:23, 216:17,

243:14, 243:20,

246:6, 249:25, 250:6,

251:2, 252:12,

252:14, 253:14,

255:11, 257:11,

265:6, 265:17,

266:16, 266:21,

279:11, 299:18,

300:1, 302:25, 303:1,

309:4, 309:17

Community [1] -

216:15

companies [6] -

196:1, 218:16,

245:20, 252:10,

252:17, 252:19

company [7] - 204:1,

241:4, 241:14,

243:12, 277:2,

299:20, 306:15

Company [17] -

176:2, 176:2, 176:8,

182:3, 182:18, 183:1,

197:13, 214:16,

216:8, 216:12,

216:19, 217:14,

219:13, 226:12,

241:1, 288:4, 294:13

COMPANY [2] -

180:3, 180:6

compare [2] -

185:10, 236:10

compared [4] -

213:17, 246:19,

260:6, 278:3

compel [1] - 223:20

complain [1] -

200:24

complains [1] -

200:25

complaints [1] -

200:20

complete [4] - 223:2,

259:17, 260:8, 312:7

completely [2] -

270:14, 301:4

compliance [8] -

205:20, 237:10,

263:4, 263:5, 263:7,

263:11, 291:9, 305:21

complicated [1] -

281:2

comply [1] - 205:23

component [2] -

274:22, 277:19

components [1] -

279:3

comprehensive [2] -

274:13, 298:1

computers [1] -

186:19

concentrate [1] -

188:15

concentrating [1] -

266:12

concept [1] - 283:24

concern [5] - 193:23,

196:25, 264:5,

265:20, 290:18

concerned [8] -

232:15, 241:19,

250:15, 263:6, 264:1,

265:10, 308:10, 311:3

concerning [2] -

257:3, 257:8

concerns [2] - 224:1,

262:2

conclude [1] -

309:18

conclusion [9] -

197:4, 201:9, 223:20,

226:8, 234:10,

264:13, 275:4,

285:22, 308:14

condition [2] -

281:11, 281:12

conditions [8] -

219:18, 222:25,

225:9, 260:6, 277:12,

278:1, 278:3, 284:6

conduct [1] - 181:4

configured [2] -

273:5, 273:24

confirm [2] - 199:24,

285:21

confirmation [1] -

199:20

confirmed [2] -

199:15

conflicts [1] - 219:25

confronted [1] -

198:6

Congress [17] -

219:17, 220:11,

220:21, 220:22,

222:12, 223:6,

225:10, 226:7, 226:8,

236:3, 236:14, 237:5,

290:19, 291:5, 293:2,

310:23, 311:15

congressional [2] -

221:17, 227:7

Congressman [1] -

248:22

consent [10] -

281:14, 281:20,

281:21, 282:7,

282:10, 282:14,

282:19, 283:1, 283:7,

283:21

consider[24] -

183:7, 189:14,

194:15, 197:5, 204:2,

204:16, 222:3,

222:25, 223:21,

224:5, 236:15,

246:16, 247:3,

250:18, 252:23,

264:6, 267:1, 272:23,

275:12, 292:4, 298:5,

302:16, 310:2, 310:13

considerable [3] -

228:21, 263:20,

291:20

considerably [1] -

204:10

consideration [10] -

197:7, 225:23,

236:25, 292:23,

294:5, 294:21,

301:25, 302:12,

302:21, 307:8

considerations [3] -

222:22, 259:18,

290:24

considered [7] -

222:14, 235:20,

278:11, 278:18,

279:1, 295:4, 303:2

considering [4] -

220:20, 290:23,

306:16, 310:3

consistent [2] -

287:6, 287:8

consistently [2] -

198:10, 250:11

consists [2] - 224:8,

245:21

Constance [1] -

258:20

CONSTANCE [3] -

178:24, 258:12, 265:1

constant [1] - 248:21

constraint [2] -

190:3, 190:9

constraints [3] -

183:16, 187:17,

189:22

construction [5] -

221:6, 238:11,

238:13, 256:18,

256:20

consuming [1] -

294:9

contact [3] - 181:19,

248:21, 249:1

contaminants [3] -

302:6, 302:8, 302:10

contemporaneous

[1] - 291:23

contemporaneousl

y [1] - 221:8

contention [1] -

189:7

context [3] - 259:17,

264:4, 274:9

continual [1] - 210:5

continually [1] -

248:22

continue [4] -

186:22, 194:7,

215:23, 253:15

continued [2] -

206:24, 221:16

Continued [3] -

176:1, 178:1, 179:1

continuing [2] -

242:9, 303:21

contractors [2] -

253:8, 261:9

contracts [3] -

196:23, 214:3, 254:22

contrary [1] - 225:22

contribute [8] -

196:19, 213:22,

249:25, 261:7,

261:17, 261:19,

261:23, 279:10

contributing [2] -

276:16, 277:18

contributions [4] -

261:1, 261:2, 262:12,

262:13

contributor[3] -

242:16, 243:15,

274:16

control [19] - 208:16,

220:14, 220:19,

237:12, 238:3, 248:6,

248:8, 248:16, 278:4,

280:3, 282:11, 283:9,

284:7, 285:6, 291:11,

302:10, 305:1,

308:24, 309:20

Control [5] - 238:17,

295:16, 301:17,

301:22, 302:1

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

6

controlled [1] -

284:8

controls [12] -

264:16, 273:24,

281:14, 281:17,

282:7, 282:10, 296:6,

297:2, 297:3, 297:17,

297:21

copies [2] - 221:21,

269:18

copy [2] - 181:20,

207:3

core [1] - 198:14

Corners [18] -

196:18, 198:16,

198:18, 199:7, 208:3,

208:10, 209:18,

209:25, 247:21,

247:25, 260:19,

260:24, 261:15,

262:16, 262:19,

262:22, 268:22, 295:9

corporate [1] -

198:11

Corporation [1] -

288:16

corporation [2] -

198:4, 198:6

correct [5] - 228:25,

230:19, 234:6,

279:12, 295:12

corrections [2] -

217:16, 239:16

correctly [1] - 220:10

cost [30] - 188:13,

195:8, 195:14, 197:3,

203:21, 203:22,

203:24, 204:18,

209:18, 213:11,

213:15, 220:4,

224:15, 224:17,

228:13, 237:9,

238:12, 238:15,

238:18, 238:21,

238:23, 250:25,

291:9, 292:22, 293:8,

295:6, 297:12,

304:11, 307:5

Cost [1] - 238:17

cost/benefit [1] -

307:4

costs [9] - 191:4,

206:23, 209:15,

213:13, 214:10,

263:4, 273:25, 295:7,

295:18

Counsel [1] - 175:17

counsel [5] - 181:23,

182:24, 290:10,

313:13, 313:16
counselor[1] - 252:2

counselors [1] -

252:6

count [1] - 233:14

counties [4] -

208:10, 209:18,

259:24, 307:6

counting [1] - 253:7

country [8] - 189:13,

189:15, 204:4,

265:15, 266:10,

281:5, 296:14, 296:19

COUNTY [1] - 313:3

county [8] - 196:9,

208:9, 208:25, 246:6,

246:9, 246:10,

251:24, 254:17

County [22] - 185:12,

185:18, 185:24,

193:22, 196:20,

206:18, 207:14,

207:17, 208:6,

208:22, 210:6,

216:13, 242:1,

242:15, 242:20,

244:16, 245:15,

245:17, 245:23,

268:20, 298:16

couple [14] - 215:8,

221:23, 229:9,

233:23, 245:11,

246:5, 246:17, 265:7,

271:21, 284:1,

287:25, 300:15,

301:3, 306:19

course [14] - 186:3,

204:11, 205:17,

222:12, 222:17,

252:23, 253:16,

254:15, 265:10,

270:1, 270:10,

294:15, 295:14,

304:15

court [4] - 198:7,

231:12, 272:18,

275:18

Court [1] - 181:18

courts [1] - 221:6

covers [1] - 259:21

coworkers [2] -

256:23, 257:6

CRAWFORD [3] -

177:20, 210:18,

210:24

Crawford [2] -

210:24, 212:3

create [3] - 195:20,

306:23, 307:15

created [2] - 203:6,

267:7

creating [2] - 243:14,

245:21

creation [2] - 245:19,

246:13

creator [1] - 253:22

credentials [2] -

217:23, 239:20

credit [1] - 230:11

credits [1] - 268:17

criteria [4] - 291:4,

291:7, 297:14, 311:15

criterion [1] - 290:19

CROSS [1] - 234:21

cross [3] - 178:8,

181:15, 286:15

cross-examination

[2] - 181:15, 286:15

crumble [1] - 204:9

cry [1] - 277:1

crystal [1] - 305:8

cumulative [1] -

283:3

cumulatively [1] -

263:21

curious [1] - 238:10

curiously [1] -

229:10

current [3] - 187:2,

221:15, 296:17

customer[3] - 194:9,

195:15, 213:17

customer's [1] -

195:17

customers [2] -

194:3, 195:8

cut [1] - 215:6

D

dad [1] - 253:2

Dallas [1] - 272:16

DANIEL [4] - 178:12,

245:1, 245:7, 245:10

dark [1] - 186:3

data [10] - 220:3,

264:9, 278:9, 280:15,

280:16, 281:2, 281:4,

281:6, 281:19

database [2] -

280:12, 281:2

date [1] - 229:10

days [4] - 211:12,

271:21, 300:15, 301:3

de [1] - 176:17

deadline [2] -

230:20, 231:5

deal [6] - 188:12,

200:7, 221:25,

225:17, 248:18,

272:14

dealing [2] - 270:3,

294:20

Dean [1] - 180:4

Deanna [1] - 207:12

DEANNA [2] -

177:18, 207:6

death [3] - 186:2,

186:5, 309:13

deaths [1] - 209:12

DEBORAH [1] -

175:7

decades [1] - 206:16

December [1] -

198:2

decide [1] - 186:15

decided [3] - 202:15,

274:8, 290:19

decision [23] -

194:17, 194:19,

197:8, 209:5, 212:25,

223:3, 245:22,

248:24, 257:14,

267:3, 270:17, 292:5,

292:8, 293:22,

293:23, 298:24,

299:10, 299:18,

299:25, 301:25,

311:6, 311:10, 311:23

decision-makers [1]

- 245:22

decision-making [1]

- 299:10

decisionmaking [1] -

223:1

decisions [6] -

204:5, 256:11,

256:14, 256:24,

265:23, 301:16

deciview [5] -

224:23, 285:21,

286:8, 292:13, 292:15

deciviews [2] -

279:13, 283:25

declare [1] - 201:2

decree [11] - 281:14,

281:20, 281:22,

282:7, 282:10,

282:14, 282:19,

283:1, 283:7, 283:21

dedication [1] -

294:14

deeds [1] - 189:15

deemed [1] - 238:20

deems [1] - 222:20

defensible [1] -

298:2

deference [1] - 275:5

definitely [1] -

247:20

degrades [2] - 201:7,

224:15

degree [4] - 218:6,

242:6, 291:11, 302:2

delayed [1] - 228:24

delegated [1] -

219:17

deliberate [3] -

181:11, 270:17, 271:9

deliberating [1] -

272:9

deliberations [3] -

289:22, 290:16,

300:16

demands [1] - 194:8

demonstration [1] -

299:1

demonstrations [1] -

293:14

department [1] -

259:6

Department [19] -

175:3, 175:16,

175:18, 182:8,

195:13, 201:13,

220:1, 220:3, 220:10,

225:2, 226:5, 235:10,

235:21, 271:2,

271:10, 295:10,

298:1, 302:20, 303:7

Department's [12] -

207:19, 225:5,

225:23, 226:10,

231:23, 236:17,

236:20, 241:15,

271:5, 292:19, 298:8,

312:3

dependent [5] -

203:4, 232:20,

260:16, 260:17,

307:14

depiction [1] - 285:5

Desert [7] - 197:25,

198:9, 198:14,

199:11, 199:25,

200:25, 201:9

deserving [1] -

243:21

design [1] - 238:22

designated [1] -

219:21

designed [1] - 224:9

despite [1] - 199:19

destiny [1] - 303:17

deterioration [1] -

210:5

determinant [1] -

225:1

determination [40] -

218:19, 220:9, 223:7,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

7

223:8, 223:14,

223:23, 224:2, 224:5,

224:8, 225:2, 225:11,

225:13, 225:14,

226:10, 226:11,

226:13, 228:7,

228:12, 228:17,

228:19, 229:11,

230:5, 231:3, 233:18,

235:7, 235:21, 262:4,

262:15, 272:11,

274:9, 275:7, 291:8,

291:16, 292:12,

293:1, 293:9, 293:11,

294:16, 295:13

determinations [8] -

221:15, 221:18,

222:10, 229:9,

262:23, 263:3, 292:1,

296:19

determine [2] -

292:21, 303:16

determined [8] -

219:19, 220:11,

221:14, 223:22,

226:9, 296:23, 297:1,

297:12

determines [1] -

235:10

determining [5] -

221:25, 222:14,

225:6, 225:23, 293:5

detrimental [1] -

263:3

develop [1] - 259:14

developed [1] -

232:8

developing [1] -

310:25

development [6] -

195:24, 210:2, 222:9,

243:13, 245:15, 260:1

Development [1] -

245:14

DIANE [2] - 179:6,

276:2

difference [12] -

185:10, 192:1, 192:9,

203:24, 213:10,

213:12, 213:13,

280:2, 280:6, 285:12,

285:23, 295:1

different [11] - 191:3,

227:20, 235:25,

254:22, 273:15,

273:22, 274:12,

275:4, 281:5, 281:6,

311:9

difficult [3] - 192:2,

266:14, 294:8
difficulty [1] - 209:3

diligence [1] - 299:2

dimensional [1] -

280:14

dioxide [1] - 213:3

diploma [1] - 252:5

DIRECT [22] -

184:11, 187:23,

190:18, 193:7,

197:18, 202:4, 205:4,

207:9, 210:21, 212:8,

214:21, 217:7, 239:9,

245:4, 247:15,

249:13, 251:12,

255:22, 259:4, 265:4,

268:4, 286:22

Direct [8] - 177:5,

177:7, 177:21, 178:5,

178:11, 179:8, 180:4,

180:5

direct [20] - 177:9,

177:11, 177:13,

177:15, 177:17,

177:19, 177:23,

177:25, 178:13,

178:15, 178:17,

178:19, 178:21,

178:23, 178:25,

179:5, 221:21,

260:25, 261:2, 264:11

directed [1] - 269:15

directly [6] - 181:19,

256:18, 256:19,

256:24, 257:11,

263:14

director[2] - 245:13,

246:7

directors [1] - 246:2

dirt [3] - 276:18,

276:19, 276:21

dirty [3] - 246:11

discretion [7] -

219:17, 222:5, 228:7,

270:14, 291:15,

292:21, 293:6

discriminate [2] -

200:5, 200:8

discrimination [2] -

199:25, 200:9

discuss [1] - 227:15

discussed [3] -

238:16, 281:14, 283:2

discussing [1] -

276:20

discussion [3] -

198:21, 224:16,

296:13

Discussion [1] -

277:10

diseases [1] - 309:12

disgusted [1] -

185:11

District [2] - 184:15,

246:7

districts [1] - 257:13

Division [1] - 175:12

docketed [1] - 181:6

document [4] -

278:8, 288:3, 289:12,

293:22

documentation [2] -

199:4, 246:4

documented [1] -

199:9

dollar [2] - 224:25,

228:14

dollars [11] - 213:25,

224:17, 224:20,

224:23, 246:18,

248:6, 285:11,

285:13, 285:23,

295:1, 305:10

done [22] - 194:24,

199:23, 204:5,

204:20, 221:20,

222:7, 227:18,

235:21, 253:14,

254:15, 255:1, 272:6,

272:14, 273:18,

278:1, 281:9, 284:7,

284:17, 293:14,

303:12, 311:1, 311:6

donor [1] - 243:17

Dooda [6] - 197:25,

198:9, 198:14,

199:25, 200:24, 201:9

door [1] - 201:21

double [1] - 215:18

down [18] - 183:18,

183:20, 186:12,

186:13, 186:22,

209:17, 224:13,

234:24, 254:17,

257:17, 263:20,

268:20, 282:14,

282:20, 290:10,

292:5, 292:12, 304:14

downstream [1] -

287:15

DOYLE [3] - 177:24,

214:18, 214:24

Doyle [1] - 214:24

Dr [4] - 192:23,

193:10, 197:10, 214:6

draft [2] - 195:11,

226:3

dramatic [1] - 206:10

dramatically [2] -

185:6, 263:22

draw [1] - 266:20

Drawer [1] - 175:13

drawn [1] - 266:21

drifts [1] - 255:7

drive [4] - 211:18,

277:14, 287:16,

287:17

Drive [2] - 175:4,

175:19

driving [1] - 276:10

drought [1] - 210:3

drove [1] - 286:25

due [3] - 206:12,

250:8, 284:15

duly [25] - 184:9,

187:21, 190:16,

193:5, 197:16, 202:2,

205:2, 207:7, 210:19,

212:6, 214:19,

216:24, 217:5, 239:7,

245:2, 247:13,

249:11, 251:10,

255:20, 258:13,

259:2, 265:2, 268:2,

276:3, 313:9

during [1] - 294:10

dust [5] - 185:3,

276:12, 278:21,

278:22, 278:24

dusty [1] - 277:13

duty [1] - 295:14

dynamic [1] - 205:15

dynamics [1] -

261:20

E

E-I-S-E-N-F-E-L-D

[1] - 205:8

early [1] - 221:12

Earth [6] - 200:22,

200:23, 201:2, 201:4,

201:7, 201:10

easily [4] - 266:8,

266:11, 266:13, 267:4

Economic [1] -

245:14

economic [34] -

185:24, 187:1,

194:17, 194:21,

194:25, 195:24,

196:19, 208:2, 209:6,

209:24, 210:1,

213:22, 214:5, 226:1,

245:14, 245:20,

250:8, 250:18,

250:21, 250:25,

257:10, 260:1, 261:3,

261:20, 263:21,

266:18, 273:15,

301:7, 301:8, 302:5,

302:7, 302:24, 307:5,

307:10

economic-based [1]

- 245:20

economically [2] -

249:25, 306:13

economics [1] -

265:9

economy [16] -

185:20, 186:10,

188:14, 191:15,

214:9, 218:13,

242:17, 250:3, 251:4,

261:8, 261:18,

261:19, 262:9, 267:6,

267:13, 306:11

education [1] - 242:9

educator [1] - 252:1

effect [9] - 203:10,

224:11, 250:3,

250:16, 263:2,

272:16, 283:3, 297:3,

297:19

effective [4] -

203:13, 213:11,

297:12, 304:11

effectiveness [4] -

208:17, 224:15,

224:17, 224:21

Effects [1] - 288:5

effects [9] - 203:11,

235:19, 236:7,

236:13, 263:21,

266:1, 266:3, 269:17

effort [4] - 202:18,

248:7, 273:9, 299:9

efforts [8] - 194:5,

194:10, 200:11,

248:14, 298:15,

300:2, 303:6, 303:14

eggs [1] - 225:3

EIB [8] - 174:3,

181:6, 194:15,

205:10, 206:21,

212:14, 245:10, 290:5

eight [1] - 215:14

Eisenfeld [3] - 205:7,

205:12, 207:1

EISENFELD [4] -

177:16, 205:1, 205:7,

205:10

either [4] - 271:4,

271:10, 292:19,

292:20

EJT [1] - 285:3

elderly [1] - 191:9

elders [1] - 254:11

elected [1] - 183:4

Electric [1] - 256:10

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

8

electrical [1] -

218:12

electricity [13] -

186:19, 194:3, 194:8,

195:18, 203:5,

206:13, 209:21,

215:5, 215:15,

256:10, 257:22,

260:11, 307:9

eliminating [1] -

302:7

ELIZABETH [1] -

175:10

Eloise [1] - 197:21

ELOISE [3] - 177:12,

197:15, 197:21

eloquently [1] -

291:7

emission [5] -

194:12, 213:2,

220:17, 261:22,

282:16

emissions [14] -

188:22, 194:11,

195:6, 206:9, 206:18,

207:24, 211:7, 230:6,

235:19, 261:24,

261:25, 296:11,

311:16

Emissions [2] -

180:8, 288:15

emphasis [2] -

218:4, 224:16

emphasize [3] -

221:17, 224:24,

290:17

employed [7] -

239:21, 242:11,

246:25, 249:23,

253:8, 313:13, 313:16

employee [1] -

313:15

employees [1] -

243:5

employer [1] -

242:20

employers [2] -

196:18, 213:21

employment [3] -

196:5, 242:5, 242:14

employs [2] -

213:23, 243:4

enabling [1] - 253:10

enact [1] - 290:24

enacted [3] - 220:22,

221:9, 229:5

encompassing [1] -

306:1

encourage [4] -

210:11, 219:13,
248:17, 249:1

encourages [1] -

226:12

end [8] - 187:3,

215:7, 222:14, 226:9,

267:11, 267:12,

308:24

endanger[1] - 199:8

ended [1] - 293:9

energies [1] - 189:18

Energy [2] - 176:9,

252:18

energy [20] - 186:11,

186:13, 194:6,

203:18, 203:20,

210:10, 215:6,

215:11, 215:13,

218:3, 242:3, 242:8,

257:20, 267:6,

267:13, 267:15,

267:18, 291:10,

308:22, 310:15

engaged [1] - 198:4

engagement [1] -

299:7

engine [3] - 185:24,

187:1, 214:5

engineering [4] -

218:8, 238:22,

307:20, 307:21

Engineers [4] -

240:3, 242:19,

249:20, 256:21

engineers [1] - 312:4

enjoy [1] - 246:24

enjoyed [1] - 242:5

enjoying [1] - 216:14

entire [2] - 185:25,

294:10

Environment [11] -

175:3, 175:16,

175:18, 182:8,

195:13, 207:19,

256:4, 295:10,

297:25, 298:8, 312:2

environment [10] -

185:14, 189:17,

195:15, 246:11,

246:24, 250:15,

250:17, 266:22,

301:8, 301:9

environmental [14] -

188:12, 189:15,

190:25, 191:6,

200:10, 200:24,

208:3, 210:11, 218:4,

237:10, 250:25,

259:6, 291:3, 310:1

ENVIRONMENTAL

[1] - 174:1

Environmental [21] -

174:17, 175:6, 181:3,

183:23, 195:10,

197:4, 199:12,

199:17, 200:1,

201:12, 207:18,

210:7, 212:20,

241:15, 241:20,

251:20, 259:7, 259:9,

301:22, 302:19, 303:7

EPA [85] - 194:22,

199:20, 205:17,

208:15, 208:16,

208:21, 208:25,

213:4, 213:14, 215:3,

220:24, 221:2,

221:11, 221:16,

221:19, 221:23,

222:2, 222:8, 222:15,

223:10, 223:12,

224:11, 224:18,

227:17, 228:3, 228:6,

228:17, 228:21,

228:23, 229:9,

229:11, 229:17,

230:21, 231:2, 231:7,

231:9, 231:20,

231:22, 232:8,

232:15, 232:22,

233:9, 233:17, 238:6,

248:24, 249:4, 254:5,

254:25, 257:4, 262:3,

263:9, 271:21,

271:24, 272:4, 272:6,

272:8, 272:13,

272:18, 273:2,

273:13, 273:18,

273:19, 274:3, 274:8,

274:14, 274:23,

275:1, 275:11, 285:3,

290:25, 295:25,

296:1, 296:14,

297:16, 305:13,

305:25, 306:12,

307:4, 308:10,

308:12, 308:13,

308:21, 310:1, 312:5

EPA's [26] - 195:9,

207:21, 213:10,

219:25, 220:8,

221:20, 223:22,

223:23, 224:2, 224:5,

224:8, 224:14, 225:1,

225:7, 225:11,

225:22, 226:11,

227:14, 228:14,

232:11, 232:12,

233:12, 238:17,

297:7, 297:14, 309:19

equally [1] - 278:8

equates [1] - 242:25

equation [3] -

277:19, 277:20, 279:3

equipment [5] -

243:2, 248:6, 280:10,

302:9, 311:9

equity [1] - 206:22

equivalent [2] -

230:6, 279:19

era [1] - 267:10

errand [1] - 275:10

especially [4] -

188:14, 213:6,

259:16, 305:21

essentially [1] -

184:21

establish [5] -

232:22, 241:16,

241:21, 241:23,

291:14

established [6] -

231:12, 243:20,

266:10, 291:4,

291:19, 292:23

estimate [2] -

238:22, 238:23

estimated [7] -

196:8, 196:22, 209:7,

209:12, 209:15,

209:19, 213:15

estimating [1] -

196:6

et [1] - 195:20

EUGENIA [4] -

178:22, 258:12,

258:16, 259:1

Eugenia [2] - 258:16,

259:5

evaluated [1] -

231:19

evaluations [1] -

278:4

evening [1] - 270:10

event [3] - 270:9,

277:13, 287:9

everywhere [1] -

276:13

evidence [7] -

201:22, 218:22,

219:9, 240:13,

289:10, 293:16,

302:16

evidentiary [4] -

288:2, 289:14,

289:17, 290:7

exact [1] - 263:2

exactly [1] - 260:21

Examination [7] -

178:5, 178:7, 178:8,

178:9, 178:11, 179:7,

179:8

EXAMINATION [8] -

217:7, 227:3, 234:1,

234:21, 235:15,

239:9, 276:5, 286:22

examination [3] -

178:6, 181:15, 286:15

examined [22] -

184:10, 187:22,

190:17, 193:6,

197:17, 202:3, 205:3,

207:8, 210:20, 212:7,

214:20, 217:6, 239:8,

245:3, 247:14,

249:12, 251:11,

255:21, 259:3, 265:3,

268:3, 276:4

Examiner [3] -

269:13, 269:24, 294:2

example [4] - 195:5,

221:24, 225:11, 242:2

exceeds [1] - 242:22

excellence [5] -

203:8, 204:3, 204:14,

306:3, 306:4

excellent [4] -

202:15, 202:19,

202:23, 311:4

exchange [1] - 292:9

excuse [4] - 234:16,

239:1, 244:12, 287:20

executive [3] -

245:13, 246:7, 259:8

exercise [1] - 293:6

exhaust [1] - 297:23

Exhibit [5] - 211:11,

219:9, 285:3, 289:10,

293:21

exhibit [3] - 219:3,

219:4, 240:13

exhibits [2] - 285:1,

294:25

exist [1] - 266:23

existing [5] - 198:24,

234:9, 264:16,

291:10, 297:3

exorbitant [1] -

263:4

expansion [1] -

245:19

expect [4] - 181:12,

206:14, 237:20, 296:2

expected [1] - 197:1

expensive [2] -

215:12, 215:14

experience [1] -

302:9

experiencing [1] -

255:8

Expires [2] - 313:20,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

9

313:22

exploratory [1] -

198:5

exponential [1] -

263:3

expressed [1] -

262:1

extend [1] - 293:15

extended [1] -

267:16

extension [1] -

272:19

extent [2] - 236:6,

272:13

extenuating [1] -

275:5

exterior [2] - 241:8,

259:22

external [1] - 240:4

externalities [3] -

265:24, 266:15, 267:2

eyes [2] - 228:15,

289:3

F

F-A-L-K [1] - 258:21

faced [1] - 204:4

facilities [3] - 260:9,

296:2, 303:16

facility [3] - 216:15,

262:8, 279:15

facing [1] - 189:2

fact [10] - 185:18,

186:21, 199:5, 199:7,

206:12, 213:4,

224:25, 289:1,

297:16, 306:15

factor [6] - 209:5,

224:14, 277:18,

293:1, 295:6, 309:7

factors [25] - 204:17,

219:20, 220:21,

222:13, 222:16,

222:19, 223:3,

223:24, 225:8,

225:24, 226:6,

236:13, 236:14,

236:25, 237:5, 237:7,

237:8, 238:19,

276:16, 292:4,

292:23, 301:24,

302:12, 305:2, 310:2

facts [1] - 306:17

failure [1] - 200:2

fair [1] - 194:16

fairness [2] - 195:5,

197:7

Falk [3] - 258:20,
264:21, 267:20

FALK [7] - 178:24,

258:7, 258:10,

258:12, 258:20,

265:1, 265:5

falls [1] - 274:11

familiar [4] - 190:25,

233:11, 237:23,

251:23

familiarity [1] -

237:17

family [6] - 205:13,

250:15, 250:19,

256:23, 256:25

family's [1] - 250:16

far [8] - 191:3, 228:4,

274:11, 277:1,

284:18, 292:11,

306:17, 307:17

Farmington [26] -

174:19, 176:11,

180:9, 183:24,

183:25, 184:16,

184:20, 184:22,

184:24, 185:2, 188:6,

188:7, 202:9, 204:6,

205:11, 205:13,

205:15, 212:17,

212:19, 216:13,

245:16, 250:11,

268:10, 268:24,

298:16, 310:7

fashion [1] - 202:16

fast [1] - 307:2

faster [1] - 307:3

father [2] - 240:19,

250:17

favor [6] - 295:11,

308:8, 308:16,

308:18, 308:21,

312:15

Fe [6] - 175:5,

175:13, 175:20,

176:17, 181:9, 276:11

fear [1] - 266:17

feasible [1] - 279:21

February [1] - 247:22

federal [11] - 195:16,

196:25, 241:5,

242:24, 243:1, 243:7,

243:8, 260:4, 272:18,

291:1, 303:9

Federal [3] - 250:20,

274:10, 274:14

Felicia [1] - 181:2

FELICIA [1] - 175:3

few [5] - 190:4,

270:19, 270:20,

290:16, 305:24

field [1] - 280:14

fifty [1] - 200:15

fifty-six [1] - 200:15

fights [1] - 192:3

figure [2] - 209:17,

228:14

figured [1] - 238:10

Figures [1] - 211:11

filed [3] - 199:25,

206:5, 270:6

fill [1] - 191:12

filling [1] - 295:14

final [2] - 222:8,

272:8

finally [2] - 191:24,

234:10

financial [1] - 195:21

financially [1] -

313:16

findings [1] - 219:25

FIP [7] - 231:9,

231:10, 263:9, 272:7,

274:6, 274:7, 304:23

fire [1] - 196:11

fired [10] - 189:12,

194:2, 196:12, 203:4,

208:9, 210:4, 215:16,

224:12, 228:20,

233:12

firm [1] - 238:22

first [32] - 183:14,

184:9, 187:21,

190:16, 193:5,

197:16, 202:2, 205:2,

205:22, 207:7,

210:19, 212:6,

214:19, 216:21,

217:5, 239:7, 240:21,

243:17, 245:2,

247:13, 249:11,

251:10, 255:20,

258:8, 259:2, 265:2,

268:2, 273:3, 282:2,

290:17, 294:4, 308:1

Fischer [3] - 275:23,

275:25, 287:23

FISCHER [8] - 179:6,

276:2, 278:20,

279:23, 280:5, 280:8,

281:19, 285:17

fits [2] - 225:22,

227:14

five [17] - 200:15,

200:18, 220:21,

222:13, 224:14,

234:24, 236:13,

236:14, 236:25,

237:5, 237:8, 237:20,

250:5, 263:11,

302:12, 305:2, 306:22

five-factor [1] -

224:14

five-year [1] - 306:22

fix [1] - 269:1

flatly [1] - 223:18

flawed [1] - 238:9

flaws [1] - 223:22

flexibility [4] -

221:25, 222:20,

231:14, 233:1

flip [1] - 185:17

flying [1] - 278:21

focus [9] - 189:17,

220:10, 229:24,

236:3, 236:23, 237:4,

292:11, 303:8

focused [3] - 236:1,

302:22, 310:21

focuses [1] - 218:3

focusing [2] - 220:8,

266:7

fold [1] - 208:16

Folded [2] - 240:22,

240:23

folks [5] - 191:10,

192:16, 196:7,

245:23, 254:5

follow [12] - 199:13,

199:23, 232:5,

232:17, 234:19,

236:22, 270:13,

271:24, 272:22,

276:9, 286:21, 292:2

follow-up [7] -

199:13, 199:23,

234:19, 236:22,

270:13, 276:9, 286:21

following [3] -

219:23, 223:15,

272:25

follows [22] - 184:10,

187:22, 190:17,

193:6, 197:17, 202:3,

205:3, 207:8, 210:20,

212:7, 214:20, 217:6,

239:8, 245:3, 247:14,

249:12, 251:11,

255:21, 259:3, 265:3,

268:3, 276:4

food [1] - 191:12

fool's [1] - 275:10

foot [1] - 304:18

foothills [1] - 253:3

FOR [1] - 174:5

force [1] - 215:19

forced [2] - 226:3,

263:23

forefront [1] - 305:21

foregoing [2] -

313:7, 313:8

forests [1] - 209:24

forgot [1] - 201:20

form [2] - 288:6,

289:2

formed [1] - 198:2

former [1] - 212:19

forms [1] - 210:10

formula [1] - 292:17

forth [5] - 232:12,

279:18, 280:11,

301:17, 301:19

fortunate [2] - 252:9,

254:19

fortunately [1] -

225:3

forward [3] - 268:16,

303:21, 308:2

fossil [1] - 267:10

fought [1] - 204:14

Four [18] - 196:18,

198:15, 198:18,

199:7, 208:3, 208:10,

209:18, 209:25,

247:21, 247:25,

260:19, 260:24,

261:15, 262:16,

262:19, 262:21,

268:22, 295:9

four [5] - 188:19,

205:17, 208:11,

208:16, 215:14

frame [1] - 262:24

Francis [2] - 175:4,

175:19

Francisco [1] -

199:12

freely [1] - 246:4

freeware [1] - 284:4

freeze [1] - 186:2

frequent [1] - 184:25

frequently [1] -

262:11

friends [2] - 256:22,

256:25

front [1] - 240:1

frustrating [1] -

227:25

fuel [6] - 196:17,

213:20, 232:10,

249:23, 267:10,

282:24

fugitive [2] - 278:22,

278:24

FULFER [6] - 175:7,

238:6, 280:24, 281:8,

282:1, 305:19

Fulfer[3] - 238:5,

280:23, 309:5

fulfills [1] - 226:10

full [21] - 184:13,

187:24, 190:20,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

10

193:9, 197:20, 205:5,

207:10, 210:22,

212:9, 213:24,

214:22, 245:5,

249:14, 251:13,

255:24, 258:15,

268:6, 274:10,

274:20, 274:22,

275:24

full-time [1] - 213:24

fully [2] - 193:25,

213:1

fund [1] - 243:20

fundamental [2] -

201:4, 221:5

funds [1] - 252:17

FURTHER [4] -

210:21, 235:15,

276:5, 286:22

furthermore [1] -

195:19

futile [1] - 273:9

future [6] - 194:18,

202:12, 221:20,

235:8, 235:10, 241:12

G

G-L-A-S-S [1] - 202:7

G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-S [1]

- 190:22

gained [3] - 237:14,

279:14, 282:11

gas [5] - 194:2,

194:7, 210:2, 215:9,

260:11

gas-fired [1] - 194:2

gavel [1] - 300:10

general [2] - 198:23,

257:12

General [3] - 175:11,

175:12, 175:17

generally [1] -

297:12

generating [1] -

196:17

Generating [52] -

180:9, 188:21,

190:23, 196:16,

199:8, 206:6, 206:8,

206:14, 206:19,

206:23, 207:22,

208:1, 208:7, 208:23,

209:12, 209:22,

210:9, 212:15,

213:15, 213:19,

219:15, 227:17,

235:4, 235:12,

241:10, 241:13,
241:16, 241:21,

241:23, 249:24,

250:9, 260:20,

260:25, 261:6,

261:10, 261:15,

261:16, 262:3, 262:6,

262:11, 262:16,

263:7, 263:10,

263:13, 263:19,

263:23, 264:3, 273:3,

273:20, 283:6,

288:15, 294:16

gentleman [2] -

229:23, 267:22

gentlemen [3] -

249:19, 251:5, 251:19

geographical [1] -

256:15

Geological [1] -

199:10

given [6] - 197:2,

230:10, 230:24,

253:23, 301:10,

313:12

glad [2] - 187:10,

270:11

Glass [2] - 202:7,

204:22

GLASS [3] - 177:14,

202:1, 202:7

global [3] - 255:2,

255:5, 310:16

goal [2] - 186:23,

235:12

goals [1] - 264:18

God [1] - 301:9

golf [1] - 204:11

GONZALES [4] -

177:8, 190:12,

190:15, 190:21

Gonzales [2] -

190:21, 192:22

Goodrich [1] -

182:20

Google [2] - 273:20,

273:21

GORDON [3] -

177:14, 202:1, 202:7

Gordon [1] - 202:7

government [5] -

185:19, 197:6,

198:11, 214:1, 303:9

governmental [1] -

239:25

governments [2] -

195:19, 251:24

Gradient [1] - 288:16

Grail [1] - 232:21

grandchildren [1] -

203:15

grandfathers [2] -

240:22, 240:23

Grantham [9] -

178:8, 182:6, 182:7,

226:19, 244:3,

270:25, 289:21,

290:9, 293:25

GRANTHAM [13] -

175:17, 182:7,

226:21, 234:17,

234:19, 234:22,

235:13, 244:4, 271:1,

286:17, 288:9,

288:17, 290:12

graphics [3] - 284:2,

284:11, 284:13

gray [1] - 218:10

great [13] - 185:13,

185:22, 185:23,

185:24, 191:23,

221:25, 232:18,

250:22, 259:24,

269:19, 305:3, 308:16

greater [2] - 195:20,

232:23

greatest [2] - 189:18,

265:14

green [5] - 257:20,

267:6, 267:15,

267:17, 310:15

GREGORY [1] -

175:7

grew [1] - 184:21

ground [2] - 208:20,

273:23

grounds [1] - 219:24

group [1] - 245:15

grown [1] - 306:5

growth [1] - 210:1

guess [6] - 183:21,

211:16, 223:12,

223:13, 237:25,

248:20

guidance [6] -

222:18, 228:2, 252:2,

292:3, 297:8, 311:24

Guidelines [1] -

222:25

guidelines [22] -

221:4, 221:16,

224:19, 224:24,

225:7, 232:21,

232:22, 232:24,

278:16, 279:2,

291:19, 291:25,

292:1, 292:6, 292:16,

297:7, 297:9, 297:17,

301:16, 301:18,

301:20, 301:23

guys [2] - 198:8,

248:16

H

H-A-G-L-E-R [1] -

212:11

H-E-N-D-E-R-S-O-N

[1] - 193:13

HAGLER [4] -

177:22, 212:5,

212:11, 212:13

Hagler [2] - 212:11,

214:13

hair [2] - 218:10,

218:11

half [1] - 215:7

hall [1] - 268:10

hand [7] - 190:14,

193:2, 225:5, 226:11,

233:14, 247:11,

309:24

handed [1] - 288:3

handful [1] - 233:16

handle [2] - 191:19,

191:21

handling [1] - 199:14

hands [1] - 216:23

happy [5] - 183:13,

216:16, 299:9, 310:7

hard [8] - 202:10,

246:19, 267:1,

268:12, 283:24,

294:13, 303:11

hard-working [1] -

268:12

hardly [1] - 254:10

hardship [1] - 250:21

Harold [1] - 175:4

hate [1] - 215:17

hazard [2] - 199:6,

199:21

hazards [1] - 200:24

HAZE [1] - 174:5

Haze [3] - 207:20,

263:10, 264:18

haze [56] - 181:5,

184:25, 193:24,

199:2, 199:5, 201:7,

201:14, 205:20,

205:23, 206:10,

208:14, 208:19,

212:15, 213:8,

213:12, 218:14,

225:14, 229:3, 229:6,

229:14, 230:3,

230:17, 231:5,

231:10, 233:13,

235:5, 235:9, 235:24,

236:5, 236:11,

236:24, 237:22,

246:20, 254:7,

254:11, 259:13,

264:15, 272:21,

274:5, 274:6, 274:10,

274:17, 274:20,

276:14, 276:16,

277:3, 284:3, 286:24,

286:25, 287:5, 290:6,

298:5, 298:20, 302:23

head [1] - 240:4

Health [5] - 180:7,

199:18, 199:23,

288:5, 288:14

health [54] - 194:12,

196:19, 198:13,

199:6, 199:8, 199:21,

200:2, 201:11,

203:11, 206:11,

208:1, 209:11,

209:15, 210:12,

213:22, 220:4,

235:18, 236:2, 236:7,

236:12, 236:13,

236:17, 237:4, 237:8,

246:13, 246:20,

248:18, 261:3,

263:25, 264:1, 264:4,

264:5, 264:6, 264:11,

265:11, 266:1, 266:3,

266:15, 269:16,

292:25, 293:3, 301:6,

302:3, 302:13, 307:7,

307:9, 307:11,

307:12, 307:16,

309:1, 309:6, 309:7,

311:3, 311:12

health-based [1] -

194:12

healthy [1] - 309:16

hear [15] - 181:9,

192:8, 195:2, 197:12,

198:8, 201:19,

228:17, 262:11,

270:6, 289:5, 290:11,

294:10, 300:22,

310:8, 311:22

heard [13] - 185:7,

185:8, 191:3, 214:16,

219:22, 223:15,

230:6, 235:18,

271:20, 302:11,

304:1, 310:14, 312:11

hearing [19] -

174:17, 181:4, 183:7,

202:8, 202:10,

205:21, 218:23,

219:7, 240:11,

244:16, 284:1,

289:16, 290:14,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

11

294:10, 310:18,

310:19, 311:22,

312:21

Hearing [20] - 175:2,

181:2, 182:15, 183:2,

216:9, 217:25,

218:21, 233:24,

234:17, 239:4,

269:13, 269:24,

271:1, 288:9, 288:17,

288:20, 290:12,

294:2, 298:13, 300:6

hearings [1] - 302:19

heart [1] - 209:13

heavily [1] - 238:16

heavy [1] - 272:2

held [1] - 239:24

help [7] - 211:2,

214:8, 219:16,

270:16, 283:23,

284:20, 311:12

helped [1] - 308:13

helpful [5] - 202:12,

270:15, 275:21,

284:24, 286:12

helping [1] - 248:24

Henderson [6] -

190:1, 190:10,

192:23, 193:10,

197:10, 214:6

HENDERSON [7] -

177:10, 193:1, 193:4,

193:10, 193:13,

193:16, 193:18

herd [1] - 253:3

hereby [1] - 313:7

hereto [1] - 313:16

Hesperus [2] -

252:22, 252:25

hi [2] - 258:7, 265:5

High [2] - 184:24,

185:2

high [3] - 185:23,

245:21, 252:5

high-paying [1] -

185:23

high-wage [1] -

245:21

higher [1] - 238:11

highlight [1] - 263:12

hired [1] - 239:22

historically [1] -

252:24

history [5] - 221:11,

227:8, 229:3, 243:18,

298:19

hoc [1] - 197:25

hold [1] - 228:9

Holy [1] - 232:21

home [4] - 184:5,
254:20, 259:20, 265:7

homes [2] - 260:8,

260:12

honest [1] - 206:21

hope [7] - 196:7,

216:14, 219:16,

267:1, 294:17,

296:21, 298:17

hopefully [2] -

299:13, 299:16

hospice [1] - 191:9

hospital [2] - 199:24,

209:13

host [1] - 216:16

hour [2] - 174:20,

276:12

huge [2] - 188:24,

211:19

hum [1] - 283:20

human [2] - 186:10,

239:24

humidity [1] - 277:18

hundred [2] -

249:22, 253:23

hundreds [1] - 261:8

husband [1] - 276:20

hybrid [1] - 304:10

I

Idaho [1] - 233:15

idea [3] - 228:16,

264:8, 275:10

identified [3] -

193:21, 199:10,

220:21

ignored [1] - 199:14

illnesses [1] - 200:14

illustrate [3] -

283:23, 284:20,

294:24

illustrated [1] -

294:24

illustration [2] -

285:4, 286:10

illustrations [1] -

221:13

imaginary [1] -

300:10

imagined [1] - 305:9

impact [21] - 194:17,

194:21, 194:25,

195:3, 195:19, 196:5,

196:14, 206:10,

250:2, 250:8, 263:22,

266:17, 266:19,

273:13, 275:11,

299:17, 299:25,

301:7, 302:16, 302:25

impacted [1] -

299:23

impacting [1] -

248:12

Impacts [2] - 180:8,

288:15

impacts [19] - 197:7,

209:11, 220:4, 226:1,

237:4, 241:25,

250:18, 250:25,

262:8, 262:10,

262:25, 263:3,

264:11, 266:13,

266:15, 291:10,

294:23, 295:8, 295:9

impairment [2] -

221:1, 291:21

imperceptible [1] -

295:19

implement [3] -

228:3, 230:21, 301:25

implementation [7] -

193:24, 194:5, 194:7,

222:10, 250:24,

301:21, 308:9

Implementation [22]

- 181:5, 195:12,

205:24, 207:21,

208:13, 208:18,

214:8, 250:20, 251:1,

256:5, 257:25,

259:13, 264:15,

272:20, 274:11,

274:14, 290:6,

290:25, 296:1, 298:6,

303:5, 310:20

IMPLEMENTATION

[1] - 174:4

implemented [2] -

282:4, 299:12

implementing [1] -

227:10

implications [1] -

262:4

importance [1] -

295:3

important [24] -

184:1, 188:15,

189:14, 189:16,

189:17, 191:22,

194:15, 204:17,

216:18, 221:2, 227:9,

253:17, 272:3,

290:18, 294:7,

294:11, 295:14,

295:22, 297:6, 309:4,

309:15, 309:21,

310:17, 310:21

impose [1] - 213:5

impress [1] - 272:14

impressed [2] -

308:11, 312:2

improve [3] - 197:1,

208:1, 303:15

improved [2] - 189:9,

305:7

IMPROVEMENT [1] -

174:1

improvement [13] -

188:24, 224:6,

224:22, 224:23,

236:12, 282:17,

291:12, 292:14,

292:15, 295:19,

296:9, 296:10, 305:11

Improvement [11] -

174:18, 175:6, 181:3,

183:23, 195:11,

197:5, 201:12,

207:18, 212:20,

256:5, 301:22

improvements [8] -

188:12, 188:20,

189:1, 237:13, 251:1,

279:13, 279:19, 309:1

improves [1] - 253:9

improving [1] -

216:2

IN [1] - 174:4

inappropriate [1] -

236:10

include [2] - 194:24,

280:4

included [2] - 195:2,

281:13

includes [1] - 243:9

including [7] - 209:2,

218:19, 261:3,

261:16, 262:16,

296:25, 302:4

inclusive [1] -

278:13

income [6] - 208:4,

243:1, 243:8, 260:24,

309:8

incorporated [1] -

230:7

increase [4] -

195:17, 209:7,

209:20, 216:1

increased [1] - 210:2

increases [1] -

192:12

incurred [1] - 209:20

independent [1] -

261:5

independently [1] -

285:20

Indian [2] - 199:14,

199:23

indicated [1] - 242:4

indication [2] -

299:17, 299:25

indicator[1] - 194:13

indigenous [1] -

253:20

indirect [2] - 260:25,

261:1

individual [2] -

186:10, 218:18

industrial [2] -

218:12, 218:15

industries [1] - 257:9

industry [2] - 242:3,

242:8

inevitably [1] - 216:1

informal [1] - 228:2

information [10] -

183:10, 192:7, 209:6,

212:23, 247:2, 267:6,

270:16, 294:22,

304:2, 308:3

informed [2] - 224:3,

265:12

infrastructure [1] -

204:9

initial [2] - 183:8,

183:22

initiatives [1] - 201:1

injure [1] - 198:12

injury [1] - 302:2

insignificant [6] -

188:13, 188:17,

188:18, 189:5,

211:20, 296:12

install [1] - 207:22

installation [3] -

207:25, 209:8, 263:8

installed [3] - 210:9,

224:12, 237:12

instance [2] -

211:12, 234:5

instead [3] - 220:8,

266:7, 266:12

institute [1] - 307:22

instituting [1] -

306:22

insufficient [1] -

206:4

integrates [1] -

225:14

intend [1] - 194:21

intended [3] -

220:11, 225:10, 226:7

intent [3] - 227:11,

238:15, 289:2

intention [1] - 248:23

intentions [1] - 206:5

interchange [2] -

298:25, 299:13

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

12

interest [5] - 198:1,

212:24, 299:2, 302:4

interested [3] -

183:4, 259:19, 313:17

interests [5] -

198:10, 198:11,

262:5, 265:19, 298:4

interference [1] -

302:3

interject [1] - 263:12

international [1] -

200:23

International [4] -

240:3, 242:18,

249:20, 256:21

internationally [1] -

267:15

interpretation [3] -

221:7, 221:8, 291:22

interstate [4] -

272:22, 274:7,

274:21, 274:24

introduce [1] -

240:20

intuitive [1] - 277:6

invalidate [1] -

311:11

invasion [1] - 198:3

invest [1] - 304:11

invested [3] -

203:19, 205:19,

306:16

investment [9] -

243:20, 294:25,

304:6, 305:6, 305:13,

305:14, 306:18,

306:19

invitation [1] -

214:15

involved [5] - 218:9,

274:1, 302:8, 302:10,

312:6

involvement [2] -

227:12, 296:15

issue [23] - 189:2,

193:23, 199:11,

199:22, 204:4,

205:22, 206:19,

246:21, 248:16,

248:18, 248:19,

248:22, 274:2, 277:4,

290:20, 290:22,

299:7, 301:3, 301:4,

301:5, 301:7, 301:8,

301:10

issued [2] - 228:2,

272:6

issues [13] - 188:13,

188:15, 188:17,

188:25, 205:16,
206:15, 206:22,

218:4, 246:8, 262:14,

270:4, 294:21, 310:17

IT [1] - 174:16

item [1] - 248:13

items [3] - 188:24,

281:23, 306:1

itself [1] - 230:14

J

James [3] - 187:4,

193:10, 210:24

JAMES [6] - 175:8,

177:10, 177:20,

193:4, 210:18, 210:24

janitor[1] - 239:23

Japan [1] - 255:9

JD [1] - 218:6

JEFFREY [1] - 175:9

jeopardized [1] -

201:11

Jim [1] - 190:1

job [9] - 185:19,

246:12, 246:13,

252:3, 252:13,

256:18, 257:10,

308:5, 308:23

jobs [33] - 185:21,

185:22, 185:23,

186:25, 194:19,

196:8, 214:8, 245:21,

246:17, 246:18,

252:8, 252:16, 253:9,

253:15, 253:16,

254:21, 254:23,

256:20, 257:19,

261:8, 265:21,

265:22, 265:23,

266:9, 267:4, 267:7,

267:8, 267:14,

267:18, 268:16,

268:19, 290:24, 301:7

Joe [2] - 247:9,

247:18

JOE [2] - 178:14,

247:12

JOHN [5] - 175:8,

178:4, 216:24, 217:2,

217:4

John [4] - 180:5,

216:21, 217:2, 218:1

joining [1] - 182:21

joins [1] - 198:14

joke [1] - 201:1

Joseph [1] - 190:21

JOSEPH [2] - 177:8,

190:15

JOSH [2] - 178:16,

249:10

Josh [1] - 249:16

Journal [1] - 199:17

Juan [111] - 174:18,

176:8, 180:8, 182:17,

182:25, 185:12,

185:18, 185:24,

188:20, 190:23,

193:22, 196:16,

196:17, 196:20,

196:21, 197:12,

199:8, 201:19,

205:14, 206:6, 206:8,

206:13, 206:17,

206:19, 206:22,

207:22, 208:1, 208:6,

208:7, 208:23,

209:11, 209:22,

210:9, 212:15, 213:1,

213:14, 213:15,

213:19, 213:20,

214:2, 214:16, 216:7,

216:11, 216:13,

216:15, 216:19,

217:14, 219:13,

219:14, 226:4,

226:12, 227:17,

235:4, 235:12, 241:1,

241:4, 241:9, 241:13,

241:15, 241:21,

241:23, 242:1,

242:11, 242:15,

242:20, 243:4, 243:6,

243:15, 243:18,

244:16, 245:13,

245:15, 245:17,

245:23, 247:25,

249:24, 250:9,

252:15, 261:6, 261:7,

261:10, 261:11,

261:16, 262:3, 262:6,

262:10, 262:15,

263:7, 263:10,

263:19, 263:22,

264:3, 267:14,

268:20, 268:21,

269:2, 273:3, 273:19,

276:11, 278:1, 283:6,

285:6, 288:15, 289:6,

294:16, 296:3, 296:7,

297:4, 297:19, 298:16

JUAN [1] - 180:3

Juan's [1] - 283:12

judge [1] - 295:25

July [3] - 199:9,

206:20, 243:19

jump [1] - 191:6

June [2] - 174:16,

180:10

jurisdiction [3] -

209:4, 259:15, 262:7

jurisdictional [1] -

205:16

justice [3] - 200:10,

208:3, 210:11

juxtapose [1] -

221:20

K

Kansas [1] - 277:12

Kathy [1] - 181:18

keep [9] - 186:25,

206:6, 246:24, 253:5,

253:6, 303:12,

306:20, 309:15

keeping [3] - 221:3,

230:16, 298:22

keeps [2] - 192:14,

305:22

kind [19] - 229:25,

232:6, 232:10,

235:25, 238:17,

246:19, 246:22,

265:18, 266:25,

272:12, 279:24,

281:24, 286:9,

292:10, 304:11,

305:11, 309:19, 310:2

kinds [1] - 310:16

Kirtland [1] - 252:3

kitchen [1] - 260:9

knowledge [3] -

200:2, 212:25, 223:2

known [2] - 220:23,

267:15

Kyle [1] - 278:20

KYLE [2] - 179:6,

276:2

L

LA [1] - 254:13

labor [1] - 239:25

laborers [2] - 268:9,

268:12

lack [1] - 218:11

lacks [1] - 305:25

ladies [3] - 249:19,

251:5, 251:18

laid [1] - 311:15

land [5] - 241:5,

241:6, 252:24,

253:21, 253:22

lands [2] - 198:5,

205:18

large [2] - 198:4,

218:15

larger [3] - 199:2,

209:19, 292:15

largest [3] - 196:21,

242:19, 274:16

last [11] - 184:4,

193:12, 244:20,

246:17, 247:23,

252:1, 258:5, 269:11,

270:10, 271:20,

300:15

latest [2] - 257:3,

257:5

latitude [1] - 231:11

latter [1] - 300:24

Law [2] - 176:4,

176:16

law [8] - 200:8,

200:23, 201:5, 223:5,

231:3, 291:13, 299:5

lawful [1] - 229:16

laws [1] - 201:5

lawyer [2] - 218:2,

277:1

lead [1] - 245:18

leaders [1] - 216:17

League [3] - 207:13,

207:17, 210:6

league [1] - 207:16

learned [1] - 300:15

least [7] - 203:13,

213:16, 216:2,

232:15, 270:19,

296:17, 306:22

leave [1] - 247:1

left [1] - 222:3

legacy [1] - 243:14

legal [3] - 238:4,

295:24, 296:5

Legal [1] - 176:9

legitimately [1] -

300:21

less [14] - 186:18,

195:9, 202:10,

208:14, 213:4,

213:11, 231:20,

232:12, 232:16,

282:11, 286:4,

295:11, 304:4, 308:17

lessen [1] - 250:16

letter [4] - 187:5,

209:11, 245:24, 246:3

letting [1] - 226:14

level [8] - 208:5,

208:20, 282:20,

282:21, 307:11, 309:8

levels [1] - 226:1

License [1] - 313:20

licensed [1] - 218:2

life [8] - 186:12,

186:13, 194:18,

202:15, 237:11,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

13

253:10, 253:11, 291:9

lifelong [1] - 266:6

light [1] - 222:21

lighting [1] - 191:12

lights [3] - 185:17,

186:4, 186:18

likely [3] - 200:16,

200:19, 271:21

limit [4] - 233:3,

233:4, 295:24

limitations [1] -

183:6

limits [6] - 184:16,

194:12, 195:7, 232:9,

232:11, 232:19

line [6] - 191:11,

192:17, 228:15,

232:20, 240:1, 260:5

list [2] - 296:17,

308:12

listens [1] - 199:4

live [10] - 186:21,

200:4, 205:12, 208:4,

246:23, 252:9,

253:23, 256:7, 260:2

liveable [1] - 186:12

lived [1] - 212:18

livelihood [1] -

250:23

living [5] - 185:12,

238:23, 257:1, 260:6,

268:19

local [17] - 195:19,

197:6, 219:18,

222:21, 222:25,

223:3, 225:9, 242:16,

242:24, 243:7,

250:16, 250:23,

251:22, 252:19,

257:12, 303:13

Local [4] - 240:3,

242:18, 249:21,

256:21

locally [1] - 303:13

located [5] - 208:8,

241:7, 260:21,

261:14, 262:7

location [2] - 184:1,

196:1

locator [1] - 195:25

logical [1] - 229:13

long-term [4] -

202:16, 203:14,

204:3, 210:1

look [28] - 186:14,

186:24, 194:16,

196:1, 211:7, 211:11,

211:21, 221:11,

221:18, 237:22,

248:23, 250:6,
257:19, 268:15,

269:7, 273:4, 273:23,

278:1, 280:1, 280:17,

283:5, 284:5, 284:18,

285:20, 288:3, 295:5,

296:22, 297:7

looked [10] - 273:21,

276:13, 277:13,

279:16, 281:23,

282:9, 282:16,

282:18, 284:9, 305:5

looking [12] -

195:23, 195:24,

227:9, 237:18, 267:2,

273:19, 276:22,

276:24, 279:20,

283:24, 287:15,

292:11

looks [4] - 215:19,

255:6, 278:8, 300:18

lose [1] - 309:1

loss [5] - 246:18,

263:17, 265:21,

267:4, 301:7

lost [4] - 196:8,

246:17, 266:9, 267:8

loud [1] - 183:19

loudly [1] - 197:22

LOUIS [1] - 176:15

Louis [1] - 182:11

LOUISE [2] - 178:24,

265:1

Louise [1] - 258:20

love [3] - 185:12,

304:9, 305:3

low [2] - 208:4,

297:18

lower [1] - 208:21

lowered [1] - 213:2

lrose@montand.

com [1] - 176:18

Lucas [3] - 275:23,

275:25, 287:24

LUCAS [29] - 179:6,

276:2, 277:6, 277:11,

278:3, 278:13,

278:16, 278:25,

279:12, 280:4, 280:7,

280:9, 281:1, 281:10,

282:6, 282:16,

282:23, 283:9,

283:12, 283:15,

283:18, 283:21,

283:23, 284:24,

286:4, 286:7, 287:2,

287:7, 287:13

Lucinda [4] - 251:8,

251:15, 251:21,

299:22

LUCINDA [3] -

178:18, 251:9, 251:15

Lucy [1] - 256:3

LUIS [1] - 258:12

Lujan [2] - 248:22,

249:2

Lung [1] - 250:10

M

M-C-D-A-N-I-E-L [1] -

245:8

M-E-Y-E-R [1] -

214:24

ma'am [6] - 189:24,

197:14, 207:2,

227:23, 237:1, 244:21

machine [1] - 313:10

machinery [2] -

186:14, 280:11

Madam [22] - 182:15,

183:2, 211:1, 216:9,

216:10, 217:25,

218:21, 233:24,

234:17, 239:4,

269:13, 269:24,

271:1, 288:9, 288:17,

290:12, 294:2, 294:3,

298:13, 300:6, 312:22

main [3] - 211:6,

248:11, 266:25

maintain [2] - 257:1

major [11] - 196:18,

208:19, 208:24,

211:21, 211:22,

213:21, 214:5,

243:15, 248:7,

261:22, 264:11

majority [2] - 308:16,

308:17

makers [1] - 245:22

man [1] - 253:5

manager [4] - 176:9,

190:24, 239:24, 259:6

managers [1] -

245:22

mandate [2] - 222:6,

230:3

mandated [2] -

222:13, 223:16

manifestation [1] -

201:4

manner [1] - 226:7

Manual [1] - 238:17

manual [1] - 238:19

map [1] - 273:21

Margaret [1] - 245:7

MARGARET [3] -

178:12, 245:1, 245:8

marginal [4] -

202:22, 203:9, 306:3,

308:25

mark [1] - 236:20

market [1] - 260:22

Marquette [1] - 176:5

married [1] - 238:16

mars [1] - 198:24

matched [1] - 189:12

materials [2] -

196:22, 214:3

maternal [1] - 240:22

MATTER [1] - 174:4

matter [13] - 174:17,

181:4, 181:7, 181:12,

183:8, 213:4, 246:21,

266:3, 270:2, 272:23,

277:22, 279:1, 279:17

matters [6] - 218:5,

218:9, 218:18, 224:4,

225:25, 241:18

maximum [2] -

220:17, 304:8

mayor [1] - 192:6

mayors [1] - 245:22

MC [3] - 178:12,

245:1, 245:10

McDaniel [1] - 245:7

MD [1] - 245:7

mean [8] - 224:22,

227:18, 229:4, 231:3,

231:22, 237:2, 248:7,

309:24

meaningful [3] -

221:10, 223:24,

275:11

means [3] - 220:17,

220:19, 309:23

measured [2] -

211:9, 225:6

measures [3] -

222:1, 222:3, 222:4

Medical [1] - 200:20

meet [8] - 194:6,

194:8, 205:25,

264:17, 296:2, 296:3,

296:4, 305:12

meeting [2] - 190:2,

236:4

meetings [2] - 184:1,

305:20

meets [1] - 293:7

megawatts [1] -

232:23

member [14] -

212:20, 231:16,

238:5, 240:2, 246:5,

249:20, 252:21,

256:7, 256:20,

280:23, 288:24,

301:11, 301:15,

303:17

Member [6] - 227:5,

275:14, 276:7, 287:3,

292:9, 309:5

members [22] -

189:25, 198:6, 211:1,

216:10, 216:17,

218:1, 244:10,

245:10, 246:1,

249:24, 261:12,

262:17, 268:11,

268:23, 269:3, 272:3,

290:13, 294:3,

298:14, 301:1, 303:2

memoranda [1] -

228:2

memorialize [1] -

293:22

mention [2] - 196:4,

261:21

mentioned [4] -

222:12, 233:15,

254:25, 287:7

mercury [2] - 189:11,

213:3

Mesa [4] - 198:19,

263:17, 284:12,

284:13

met [2] - 233:3,

311:14

meteorological [4] -

278:9, 280:14,

281:10, 287:9

method [1] - 306:12

methodology [6] -

224:9, 225:6, 278:7,

278:17, 281:7, 292:2

methods [1] - 302:9

metric [1] - 225:3

MEXICO [3] - 174:1,

180:6, 313:1

Mexico [74] - 174:19,

175:3, 175:5, 175:6,

175:13, 175:16,

175:18, 175:20,

176:2, 176:6, 176:11,

176:17, 180:10,

182:4, 182:8, 185:25,

194:1, 195:12, 196:3,

199:22, 207:19,

207:20, 208:7, 209:2,

209:7, 210:7, 210:11,

212:20, 212:21,

216:14, 224:7,

225:20, 226:2,

227:21, 230:1, 231:4,

231:11, 240:5,

240:18, 241:2, 241:6,

241:11, 241:14,

241:22, 242:1,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

14

242:10, 242:23,

243:10, 243:11,

248:25, 249:3,

250:24, 252:10,

253:18, 256:14,

259:13, 259:15,

259:16, 259:23,

264:7, 265:9, 275:7,

294:13, 295:10,

295:12, 295:15,

297:25, 298:3, 298:8,

303:7, 306:10, 311:8,

311:17

Mexico's [7] -

208:12, 223:25,

251:19, 259:12,

264:14, 310:11,

310:25

MEYER [4] - 177:24,

214:18, 214:24, 215:1

Meyer [2] - 214:24,

216:5

MICHAEL [1] - 175:8

microphone [1] -

202:9

middle [1] - 304:10

might [9] - 186:17,

228:16, 232:15,

273:10, 275:18,

282:13, 284:20,

284:24, 286:10

Mike [2] - 205:7,

205:12

MIKE [2] - 177:16,

205:1

miles [2] - 259:22,

276:12

MILLER [1] - 176:4

million [32] - 188:20,

191:16, 194:3,

196:22, 196:23,

209:16, 213:16,

213:17, 214:2, 214:3,

242:13, 242:25,

243:2, 243:6, 243:8,

243:9, 243:10,

243:17, 281:15,

282:13, 285:9,

292:14, 292:15,

295:18, 296:8,

303:15, 304:5,

305:14, 306:16

millions [1] - 213:25

mind [5] - 216:2,

230:16, 232:25,

266:9, 272:2

minds [1] - 230:13

Mine [10] - 196:17,

213:20, 241:4, 241:7,

241:9, 242:11, 243:4,
243:6, 261:7, 261:12

mine [7] - 187:3,

213:23, 241:5, 241:7,

261:7, 263:17, 299:24

miner [1] - 249:21

miners [2] - 242:17,

249:22

mines [4] - 185:22,

243:3, 250:4, 261:19

minimize [3] -

188:16, 203:10, 295:2

minimizing [1] -

195:14

mining [1] - 218:12

minor [2] - 211:9,

261:22

minute [1] - 195:25

minutes [5] - 190:4,

245:12, 246:5,

270:19, 270:21

misleading [1] -

229:25

misperception [1] -

220:16

missed [1] - 231:5

mission [1] - 245:18

mistake [1] - 225:16

mistaken [2] -

265:16, 282:13

misunderstanding

[1] - 274:5

model [9] - 264:9,

279:4, 279:24,

279:25, 280:2,

280:13, 280:17,

281:2, 282:3

modeled [3] -

281:21, 281:22

modeling [2] - 278:7,

312:4

modern [3] - 186:11,

186:13, 307:10

Mohave [2] - 263:13,

263:16

moisture [3] -

277:16, 277:17,

279:17

mom [1] - 240:19

moment [2] - 275:22,

289:17

money [11] - 188:16,

189:6, 189:9, 191:17,

202:18, 211:19,

224:22, 238:21,

304:12, 308:23, 309:1

monitoring [1] -

211:10

MONTGOMERY [1] -

176:15

month [1] - 254:5

monthly [1] - 191:5

months [1] - 284:2

Monument [1] -

198:19

monuments [1] -

209:23

moral [5] - 301:3,

301:4, 301:5, 301:6,

301:10

morning [16] - 181:1,

181:7, 182:15, 183:4,

187:18, 189:23,

189:24, 190:12,

193:1, 193:19,

197:24, 212:13,

216:9, 251:18,

298:17, 310:8

MORROW [3] -

175:9, 311:18, 312:13

most [17] - 181:8,

184:17, 185:18,

186:4, 194:8, 204:20,

205:24, 210:8, 221:6,

223:2, 235:25,

238:18, 253:16,

260:14, 268:11,

299:23, 308:15

mother [1] - 255:13

Mother [6] - 200:22,

200:23, 201:2, 201:4,

201:7, 201:10

motion [1] - 312:12

mountain [1] - 305:5

Mountain [2] -

198:19, 252:22

mountains [2] -

252:24, 254:4

move [9] - 240:6,

265:6, 266:17,

289:22, 300:16,

303:21, 312:13,

312:20

moved [1] - 309:3

moving [1] - 265:11

MOYA [4] - 179:4,

268:1, 268:7, 269:6

Moya [2] - 268:7,

269:5

MR [151] - 182:2,

182:7, 182:11,

182:15, 183:2,

183:18, 184:14,

187:14, 188:1, 188:4,

190:12, 190:21,

192:23, 193:1,

193:10, 193:13,

193:16, 193:18,

205:7, 205:10,

210:24, 212:11,

212:13, 214:24,

215:1, 216:9, 217:2,

217:8, 218:21, 219:1,

219:4, 219:10,

226:16, 226:21,

226:23, 226:25,

227:23, 228:25,

229:2, 229:22, 231:1,

231:17, 231:21,

232:1, 232:4, 232:18,

233:5, 233:11,

233:23, 234:2,

234:14, 234:17,

234:19, 234:22,

235:13, 235:17,

235:24, 236:21,

237:1, 237:7, 237:9,

237:15, 238:1, 238:6,

238:14, 239:4,

239:10, 240:6,

240:14, 243:25,

244:4, 244:6, 244:8,

244:15, 247:9,

247:18, 247:20,

249:16, 249:18,

255:25, 268:7, 269:6,

269:13, 269:20,

269:24, 271:1,

271:19, 272:1,

275:17, 275:21,

277:6, 277:11, 278:3,

278:13, 278:16,

278:25, 279:12,

280:4, 280:7, 280:9,

280:24, 281:1, 281:8,

281:10, 282:1, 282:6,

282:16, 282:23,

283:9, 283:12,

283:15, 283:18,

283:21, 283:23,

284:24, 284:25,

285:14, 285:16,

285:18, 285:24,

286:1, 286:2, 286:3,

286:4, 286:5, 286:7,

286:17, 286:20,

286:23, 286:24,

287:2, 287:3, 287:7,

287:10, 287:13,

287:18, 288:9,

288:17, 288:20,

289:6, 289:7, 290:12,

294:2, 298:13, 300:6,

303:24, 305:19,

307:25, 310:6,

311:18, 312:13

MS [152] - 181:1,

182:5, 182:9, 182:13,

182:19, 183:11,

183:19, 183:21,

187:11, 187:12,

187:13, 187:15,

187:16, 189:21,

190:6, 190:8, 192:22,

192:25, 193:15,

193:17, 197:10,

197:21, 197:24,

201:16, 204:22,

207:1, 207:3, 207:5,

207:12, 210:14,

212:3, 214:13, 216:5,

218:24, 219:3, 219:5,

226:15, 226:18,

226:22, 226:24,

227:1, 227:5, 227:6,

228:22, 229:1,

229:19, 230:19,

231:15, 231:16,

232:3, 233:6, 233:7,

233:20, 234:15,

234:18, 235:14,

236:22, 237:16,

238:5, 238:25, 240:8,

244:2, 244:5, 244:7,

244:9, 244:17, 245:7,

245:10, 247:4, 249:6,

251:6, 251:15,

251:18, 255:17,

258:2, 258:7, 258:8,

258:10, 258:11,

258:16, 258:20,

259:5, 264:20, 265:5,

267:20, 269:5, 269:8,

269:19, 269:21,

270:23, 271:7,

271:12, 271:13,

271:16, 271:17,

271:20, 275:13,

275:15, 275:20,

275:22, 276:7, 276:8,

278:2, 278:10,

278:15, 278:19,

278:20, 279:6,

279:22, 279:23,

280:5, 280:8, 280:19,

280:21, 281:19,

282:2, 282:15,

282:22, 283:8,

283:11, 283:14,

283:17, 283:20,

283:22, 284:23,

285:17, 286:12,

286:13, 286:18,

287:19, 288:11,

288:19, 288:24,

289:8, 289:11, 290:2,

293:25, 298:11,

300:4, 300:8, 300:12,

300:18, 303:23,

305:18, 307:24,

310:5, 312:1, 312:14,

312:15, 312:17,

312:22, 312:23

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

15

MSR [2] - 176:14,

182:12

multi [1] - 205:16

multi-jurisdictional

[1] - 205:16

multiplier[1] -

257:11

multitude [1] -

309:12

must [9] - 201:8,

213:8, 220:3, 221:23,

222:7, 222:13, 230:5,

232:22, 302:12

N

N-4064 [1] - 175:19

name [32] - 181:2,

184:13, 187:24,

188:1, 190:20, 193:9,

193:12, 197:20,

200:25, 202:6, 205:5,

205:12, 207:10,

210:22, 212:9,

214:22, 217:2, 218:1,

245:5, 247:9, 247:17,

249:14, 251:13,

251:21, 255:24,

255:25, 258:15,

258:19, 258:20,

259:5, 268:6, 268:7

named [1] - 261:14

narrow [1] - 224:9

Nation [40] - 241:8,

242:1, 242:3, 242:21,

251:24, 252:25,

253:10, 253:18,

256:8, 256:12,

256:13, 259:7, 259:8,

259:11, 259:19,

259:20, 259:21,

260:2, 260:16,

260:19, 261:1, 261:5,

261:13, 261:17,

262:1, 262:5, 262:7,

262:9, 262:19,

262:25, 263:14,

263:18, 263:22,

263:25, 264:1, 264:7,

264:13, 267:17,

268:24

nation [8] - 186:11,

186:16, 206:9,

253:12, 254:18,

261:5, 307:12, 307:16

nation's [1] - 307:14

Nation's [3] - 260:14,

261:3, 265:20

national [1] - 209:23

National [4] - 284:4,
285:19, 293:3, 311:7

Nations [2] - 201:1,

255:1

Native [2] - 242:13,

309:4

natural [11] - 194:1,

194:7, 201:5, 209:25,

215:9, 253:25,

260:11, 260:15,

266:23, 304:9

nature [1] - 250:8

Navajo [67] - 197:25,

198:1, 198:5, 198:10,

200:5, 200:19, 241:7,

241:8, 242:1, 242:3,

242:11, 242:20,

242:21, 243:16,

251:24, 252:25,

253:10, 253:18,

256:8, 256:12,

256:13, 259:6, 259:8,

259:9, 259:11,

259:19, 259:20,

259:21, 260:2, 260:7,

260:14, 260:15,

260:19, 260:20,

260:23, 260:24,

261:1, 261:2, 261:4,

261:5, 261:9, 261:11,

261:12, 261:13,

261:15, 261:17,

262:1, 262:4, 262:7,

262:9, 262:18,

262:25, 263:1,

263:14, 263:18,

263:22, 263:25,

264:1, 264:7, 264:13,

265:20, 267:17,

268:24

Navajos [6] - 199:9,

200:3, 200:12, 201:3,

252:23

NCR [1] - 282:8

nearby [1] - 200:21

nearly [3] - 213:23,

242:14, 243:10

necessarily [1] -

222:23

necessary [2] -

201:13, 202:16

neck [1] - 243:24

need [11] - 200:16,

203:16, 204:5,

206:18, 211:4,

236:12, 248:16,

287:25, 305:12,

311:22, 312:20

needed [2] - 194:3,

252:15

needing [1] - 301:9

needs [6] - 194:9,

253:14, 254:15,

290:20, 295:4, 307:19

negative [1] - 309:7

negatively [1] -

254:16

negligent [1] -

304:24

negligible [1] -

213:12

neighbor[2] -

208:13, 210:8

neighbors [1] -

254:2

Nenahnezad [1] -

252:21

NESHAPs [1] - 237:3

never [2] - 233:9,

266:19

nevertheless [1] -

262:8

NEW [3] - 174:1,

180:6, 313:1

new [5] - 198:23,

234:7, 238:11,

238:12, 282:4

New [82] - 174:19,

175:3, 175:5, 175:6,

175:13, 175:16,

175:18, 175:20,

176:2, 176:6, 176:11,

176:17, 180:10,

182:3, 182:7, 185:25,

194:1, 195:12, 196:3,

199:22, 207:19,

207:20, 208:6,

208:12, 209:2, 209:7,

210:7, 210:10,

212:20, 212:21,

216:13, 223:25,

224:7, 225:20, 226:1,

227:21, 230:1, 231:4,

231:11, 237:3, 240:5,

240:18, 241:1, 241:2,

241:6, 241:11,

241:14, 241:22,

242:1, 242:10,

242:23, 243:9,

243:10, 248:25,

249:3, 250:24,

251:19, 252:10,

253:18, 256:13,

259:12, 259:13,

259:15, 259:16,

259:23, 264:7,

264:14, 265:9, 275:7,

294:13, 295:9,

295:12, 295:15,

297:25, 298:3, 298:8,

303:7, 306:10,

310:10, 310:25,

311:8, 311:17

next [7] - 190:4,

192:13, 230:15,

239:5, 258:9, 265:7,

305:24

NGS [3] - 262:16,

262:19, 262:20

nice [1] - 183:19

night [2] - 184:4,

270:10

nitrates [4] - 229:25,

277:21, 279:17,

287:13

nitrogen [7] - 206:3,

206:9, 207:23,

208:19, 208:24,

213:3, 241:17

NMED [8] - 211:11,

234:11, 272:15,

273:11, 274:12,

274:19, 275:2, 298:22

NMED's [3] - 229:19,

293:19, 303:4

nobody [1] - 255:6

nonair [2] - 237:10,

291:10

nonattainment [1] -

208:22

noncatalytic [1] -

206:1

none [4] - 219:7,

240:11, 246:10

nonprofit [3] -

243:22, 245:14,

262:12

nontechnical [6] -

244:19, 247:7,

247:20, 258:4,

269:10, 308:18

normally [2] - 192:1,

192:2

NORMAN [3] -

178:10, 216:24, 239:6

Norman [3] - 180:4,

239:5, 256:2

north [1] - 188:6

Northern [1] - 200:19

Northwest [3] -

176:5, 241:6, 252:10

notably [1] - 198:15

NOTARY [1] - 313:19

note [6] - 183:3,

183:10, 221:2,

284:25, 296:10,

308:15

noted [1] - 287:12

nothing [8] - 185:4,

223:19, 224:21,

234:14, 250:6, 272:7,

289:16, 300:6

notice [1] - 289:2

notwithstanding [1]

- 289:1

NOx [25] - 188:22,

195:6, 206:3, 206:18,

208:16, 211:7, 211:8,

211:12, 211:23,

211:24, 229:25,

230:6, 230:9, 235:7,

276:17, 276:21,

281:16, 282:11,

282:13, 287:6,

287:11, 287:13,

296:6, 296:10, 297:18

NTUA [2] - 256:9

nuclear [1] - 215:6

number [10] -

224:18, 254:21,

267:8, 269:18,

278:24, 282:12,

283:16, 294:19,

296:23, 310:2

Number [1] - 313:20

numbers [1] - 273:6

O

O-R-T-E-G-A [1] -

249:16

OAQPS [1] - 238:17

oath [2] - 181:14,

276:1

objection [3] - 289:5,

289:6, 289:7

objections [4] -

219:6, 240:10, 288:7,

288:18

obligation [2] -

235:8, 304:22

obtain [1] - 242:6

obtained [1] - 306:4

obvious [2] - 304:21,

305:12

obviously [2] -

234:9, 237:18

occupies [1] -

259:23

occurrence [1] -

184:25

OF [6] - 174:1, 174:4,

174:14, 180:6, 313:1,

313:3

offend [1] - 231:20

offer [8] - 201:18,

217:18, 218:22,

226:16, 240:25,

243:25, 259:10,

289:20

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

16

offered [4] - 229:18,

229:24, 288:22,

298:17

offering [1] - 219:2

office [6] - 181:22,

191:11, 192:17,

199:12, 199:20, 259:7

Office [5] - 175:12,

175:13, 175:17,

175:18, 176:16

officer [1] - 313:6

Officer [17] - 175:2,

181:3, 182:16, 183:2,

216:10, 217:25,

218:21, 233:24,

234:17, 239:4, 271:1,

288:9, 288:17,

288:21, 290:13,

298:14, 300:7

officials [1] - 183:4

often [1] - 183:12

oftentimes [1] -

188:12

oil [1] - 210:2

old [2] - 242:4, 267:8

older [1] - 202:10

once [3] - 181:21,

231:7, 243:23

one [49] - 185:11,

187:8, 188:10, 197:1,

202:11, 203:17,

204:5, 208:23, 211:3,

211:17, 214:15,

216:20, 225:4,

225:17, 225:22,

227:14, 227:25,

230:4, 233:14,

234:19, 235:17,

236:13, 237:7,

237:16, 238:6, 238:9,

247:23, 249:22,

250:12, 252:23,

255:13, 257:21,

262:24, 267:13,

272:2, 273:17,

277:18, 281:6,

284:19, 286:8,

292:13, 292:23,

299:10, 299:22,

302:13, 306:4, 306:10

one-shot [1] - 225:17

one-size-fits-all [2] -

225:22, 227:14

online [1] - 206:6

ons [1] - 281:15

open [1] - 294:4

operate [3] - 202:15,

241:6, 292:6

operated [1] - 241:10

operates [2] -
196:23, 241:4

Operating [4] -

240:3, 242:19,

249:20, 256:21

operating [3] -

241:5, 253:15, 291:25

operation [2] -

215:23, 241:25

operational [4] -

260:9, 280:10,

281:13, 281:17

operations [4] -

190:24, 218:16,

242:12, 242:24

opinion [4] - 231:17,

235:2, 235:22, 309:19

opportunities [1] -

208:2

opportunity [11] -

191:11, 217:15,

239:15, 244:20,

251:3, 258:5, 269:11,

270:5, 270:12, 271:4,

288:3

opposed [1] - 183:8

option [1] - 279:20

options [1] - 292:13

order [2] - 186:22,

264:17

Oregon [1] - 233:16

organic [2] - 277:22,

279:18

organization [2] -

205:13, 255:2

organizations [2] -

243:22, 262:13

originally [2] - 226:7,

239:22

ORTEGA [4] -

178:16, 249:10,

249:16, 249:18

Ortega [2] - 249:16,

251:6

Orth [2] - 181:2,

312:24

ORTH [87] - 175:3,

181:1, 182:5, 182:9,

182:13, 182:19,

183:11, 183:19,

187:11, 187:13,

187:16, 189:21,

190:6, 190:8, 192:22,

192:25, 193:15,

193:17, 197:10,

201:16, 204:22,

207:1, 207:5, 210:14,

212:3, 214:13, 216:5,

218:24, 219:3, 219:5,

226:15, 226:18,

226:22, 226:24,

227:1, 227:5, 231:16,

232:3, 233:6, 233:20,

234:15, 234:18,

235:14, 238:5,

238:25, 240:8, 244:2,

244:5, 244:7, 244:9,

244:17, 247:4, 249:6,

251:6, 255:17, 258:2,

258:8, 258:11,

264:20, 267:20,

269:5, 269:8, 269:19,

269:21, 270:23,

271:7, 271:13,

271:17, 275:13,

275:20, 275:22,

276:7, 280:21,

286:13, 286:18,

287:19, 288:11,

288:19, 288:24,

289:8, 289:11, 290:2,

293:25, 298:11,

300:4, 300:8, 312:22

otherwise [2] -

189:6, 289:4

ourselves [1] - 254:1

outcomes [2] -

309:6, 309:8

outdoors [1] -

305:10

outlined [4] - 222:24,

227:8, 227:17, 310:24

outperforms [1] -

194:11

output [1] - 303:16

outside [7] - 184:16,

185:2, 195:23,

196:24, 214:4, 262:7,

282:9

outweighs [1] -

307:17

overall [4] - 194:17,

210:11, 279:3, 306:11

overgrazing [1] -

210:3

overlaid [2] - 284:9,

284:17

overwhelmingly [1] -

310:9

own [12] - 198:11,

217:20, 232:11,

259:14, 262:14,

265:11, 295:15,

297:7, 297:14,

303:16, 305:1

owned [1] - 241:2

owner [1] - 212:17

owners [1] - 256:11

oxide [6] - 206:9,

207:23, 208:19,

208:24, 213:3, 241:17

oxides [1] - 206:3

ozone [5] - 206:17,

206:19, 208:20,

208:21, 280:15

P

p.m [1] - 312:25

PA [2] - 176:4,

176:15

package [3] -

274:19, 274:20,

274:22

packet [3] - 245:24,

247:2, 288:8

PAGE [3] - 177:2,

178:2, 179:2

paid [6] - 191:12,

199:22, 242:8,

242:24, 243:6, 294:7

panel [5] - 271:10,

271:11, 275:23,

280:22, 287:21

paper [2] - 186:18,

199:16

papers [2] - 191:12,

304:18

paranoid [1] - 229:17

parents [1] - 192:15

Park [2] - 284:4,

285:19

park [1] - 198:23

parks [2] - 197:2,

209:23

part [23] - 199:5,

202:14, 204:1,

204:13, 204:20,

206:19, 211:9,

211:20, 215:24,

225:13, 230:1,

230:23, 236:12,

238:18, 256:11,

277:16, 281:17,

282:6, 283:19, 284:1,

289:1, 304:25

participate [1] -

299:9

participation [1] -

201:23

particular[14] -

218:4, 221:4, 221:12,

223:25, 225:25,

226:3, 235:4, 249:2,

265:19, 277:4, 279:8,

279:9, 291:7, 310:3

particularly [6] -

181:16, 183:15,

221:10, 227:13,

262:25, 302:22

particulate [7] -

188:23, 213:3,

241:18, 266:3,

277:22, 278:25,

279:17

parties [6] - 223:13,

270:18, 288:2, 290:8,

313:14, 313:16

parts [1] - 227:25

party [2] - 223:10,

289:19

Paseo [1] - 176:17

past [5] - 185:8,

192:6, 196:9, 239:23,

301:2

paternal [1] - 240:23

path [1] - 186:22

pay [6] - 191:18,

202:24, 203:1,

203:17, 222:15,

295:20

paying [5] - 185:23,

204:10, 204:12,

252:13, 254:23

payroll [2] - 242:12,

243:5

pays [1] - 213:25

PEACOCK [16] -

175:7, 183:21,

187:12, 233:7,

271:12, 271:16,

271:20, 300:12,

303:23, 305:18,

307:24, 310:5, 312:1,

312:15, 312:17,

312:23

Peak [1] - 211:14

pending [1] - 274:24

pension [2] - 268:17,

268:20

people [61] - 185:18,

191:4, 191:5, 191:9,

191:13, 191:17,

191:20, 192:9,

192:18, 192:21,

195:2, 198:13,

198:18, 200:4,

202:10, 202:25,

203:2, 203:10,

203:23, 204:8,

204:10, 208:3,

213:24, 233:15,

236:18, 242:11,

246:9, 246:24, 253:7,

253:20, 254:20,

254:25, 255:12,

256:15, 256:19,

257:15, 257:18,

259:21, 260:2, 261:4,

264:12, 267:17,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

17

268:12, 268:14,

268:17, 268:24,

269:2, 274:4, 294:19,

299:19, 304:1, 304:4,

307:6, 310:9, 310:15,

311:2

people's [3] -

230:13, 246:13,

246:19

per [13] - 209:7,

209:8, 209:17,

209:18, 224:17,

224:20, 224:23,

224:25, 228:14,

235:22, 243:1,

282:13, 296:12

Peralta [1] - 176:17

perceivably [1] -

197:1

percent [26] -

188:22, 188:23,

192:13, 194:2, 195:6,

195:7, 206:3, 206:13,

207:24, 211:13,

242:9, 242:13,

242:14, 242:22,

260:3, 260:4, 260:7,

260:8, 260:9, 260:10,

260:11, 260:12,

261:10, 261:11,

268:14, 286:8

percentages [1] -

261:24

perfectly [1] - 186:2

performance [1] -

311:9

Performance [1] -

237:3

performed [1] -

225:12

perhaps [1] - 264:9

period [3] - 230:4,

273:1, 283:1

permit [1] - 199:15

person [3] - 209:17,

265:25, 309:10

personally [4] -

203:19, 301:1,

301:13, 313:10

persons [1] - 200:8

perspective [1] -

265:17

pertains [1] - 241:24

Phoenix [1] - 242:7

phrase [1] - 234:25

picture [7] - 192:6,

285:8, 285:10,

285:12, 285:13,

285:25, 286:1

pictures [1] - 285:18
pie [1] - 211:22

pieces [1] - 280:17

pipe [1] - 308:24

PJT-2 [1] - 296:17

place [7] - 185:13,

188:11, 191:24,

250:20, 259:24,

304:24, 306:7

places [2] - 181:24,

276:14

plan [49] - 186:8,

186:9, 191:22,

193:25, 194:13,

195:4, 195:13,

195:16, 195:18,

196:25, 197:5,

207:21, 211:17,

211:20, 211:22,

213:9, 213:10,

213:11, 213:14,

213:18, 215:22,

219:14, 221:22,

225:14, 230:17,

232:16, 236:9,

236:20, 245:25,

246:2, 250:24, 252:4,

274:13, 291:1,

304:20, 306:14,

307:4, 307:18,

307:19, 307:23,

308:9, 308:10,

308:16, 308:19,

308:20, 310:11,

311:14, 311:17

Plan [22] - 181:5,

195:12, 205:24,

207:21, 208:13,

208:18, 214:8,

250:20, 251:2, 256:6,

257:25, 259:13,

264:15, 272:20,

274:11, 274:15,

290:6, 290:25, 296:1,

298:6, 303:5, 310:20

PLAN [1] - 174:4

planned [1] - 260:21

planning [9] - 186:3,

186:6, 215:4, 225:15,

225:19, 262:20,

265:6, 307:19, 307:21

plans [1] - 236:11

Plant [7] - 199:7,

199:11, 247:22,

260:19, 261:10,

261:15, 268:21

plant [32] - 189:12,

194:10, 196:21,

202:22, 208:9, 209:2,

209:14, 210:4, 213:6,

213:23, 213:25,

215:16, 215:19,

224:12, 228:20,

233:12, 237:11,

237:12, 238:24,

247:25, 250:4,

254:16, 268:10,

273:23, 281:13,

282:5, 287:15,

299:21, 299:24,

303:20, 311:16

plant's [3] - 195:6,

207:23, 213:2

plants [35] - 185:5,

185:22, 186:16,

196:12, 196:20,

200:13, 215:8, 215:9,

215:22, 215:25,

232:23, 248:4, 248:5,

248:11, 255:4, 255:6,

257:17, 260:18,

260:20, 261:14,

261:17, 261:18,

261:25, 262:18,

262:24, 263:1,

265:13, 265:15,

266:10, 269:1,

296:18, 296:20,

296:23, 296:25

Plata [5] - 207:13,

207:17, 208:6,

208:22, 210:6

play [2] - 206:20,

311:5

played [1] - 312:5

pleadings [1] -

293:20

pleasure [1] - 183:3

plug [1] - 292:17

plumbing [1] - 260:8

plume [3] - 287:6,

287:11, 287:14

plumes [1] - 287:16

plus [2] - 243:1,

243:8

PNM [38] - 188:19,

189:8, 191:23,

192:11, 194:5,

195:17, 205:23,

206:5, 206:15, 209:6,

211:23, 213:1,

229:19, 230:9,

230:14, 253:8,

253:14, 254:15,

256:11, 256:12,

256:17, 256:24,

257:3, 257:10,

262:11, 269:13,

269:25, 271:10,

271:12, 271:23,

271:24, 273:1, 273:6,

289:10, 303:14,

303:20, 311:16

PNM's [5] - 206:13,

275:15, 285:2, 303:4,

312:3

point [11] - 232:18,

244:18, 246:15,

253:23, 272:2, 272:8,

292:21, 293:8,

293:20, 311:4, 311:13

pointed [5] - 213:21,

214:6, 234:7, 310:9,

310:23

pointless [1] -

229:20

points [1] - 266:25

policy [1] - 220:2

politely [1] - 228:6

pollutant [1] - 224:20

pollutants [8] -

208:8, 209:1, 209:4,

211:13, 211:23,

277:23, 279:9, 308:24

pollute [1] - 200:13

pollution [16] -

199:2, 206:7, 209:14,

210:4, 211:9, 248:6,

248:11, 254:12,

254:13, 255:3, 255:4,

255:5, 265:14,

265:24, 276:17,

291:11

poor [3] - 185:9,

309:10, 309:13

poorer [2] - 307:12,

307:15

poorest [3] - 260:3,

306:11

portion [1] - 218:17

portions [1] - 188:5

pose [1] - 257:21

posed [1] - 226:2

position [2] - 241:22,

292:19

positions [2] -

239:23, 252:20

positive [3] - 243:14,

262:10, 299:1

possibility [1] -

198:22

possible [3] - 203:2,

206:17, 222:17

possibly [1] - 270:16

Post [3] - 175:13,

175:18, 176:16

postcombustion [1]

- 297:21

potential [6] - 224:6,

263:2, 265:11, 266:9,

266:20, 295:8

potentially [2] -

209:3, 267:4

pound [1] - 282:13

poverty [2] - 208:4,

260:4

power [40] - 185:5,

185:21, 186:15,

194:2, 196:12,

196:20, 200:12,

208:9, 209:2, 209:14,

210:4, 213:23,

224:12, 228:20,

232:23, 233:12,

248:4, 248:5, 248:11,

250:4, 255:6, 260:18,

260:20, 261:14,

261:17, 261:18,

261:25, 262:18,

262:23, 265:13,

265:15, 266:10,

268:10, 268:25,

287:15, 296:18,

299:20, 299:24

Power [8] - 176:14,

182:12, 199:7,

199:11, 247:21,

260:19, 261:15,

268:21

practicability [1] -

302:6

practice [1] - 218:3

preamble [1] -

297:10

precipitation [1] -

280:15

preconsent [1] -

282:10

precontrolled [1] -

284:8

precursor [1] -

208:20

predetermined [1] -

224:10

predicting [1] -

309:7

predictor[1] - 309:6

preference [2] -

221:17, 228:10

prefers [1] - 229:12

prefiled [2] - 217:9,

239:12

premise [1] - 220:6

prepare [2] - 217:9,

239:12

prepared [1] -

288:16

prerogative [1] -

223:11

present [2] - 270:12,

303:3

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

18

presented [3] -

191:23, 216:20,

310:20

presenting [1] -

308:6

preserve [1] - 214:8

president [3] -

212:21, 251:22,

251:25

pressure [1] - 215:3

presumably [3] -

231:10, 288:2, 293:1

presume [1] - 297:15

presumptive [10] -

232:9, 232:11,

232:13, 232:16,

232:19, 233:3,

282:21, 293:7, 295:24

pretty [1] - 227:18

prevailing [1] - 208:8

prevented [1] - 201:8

previous [1] - 302:8

previously [3] -

276:3, 282:8, 303:14

primarily [3] -

218:12, 228:12,

269:15

primary [3] - 225:1,

252:3, 309:6

principal [1] - 221:5

priority [1] - 252:6

pristine [2] - 198:16,

305:4

private [3] - 200:8,

242:20, 245:23

pro [1] - 193:21

problem [9] - 188:13,

192:1, 198:14, 199:1,

211:20, 211:24,

212:1, 230:1, 236:2

problems [4] -

189:19, 199:3,

200:17, 266:6

procedures [1] -

222:24

proceeding [4] -

236:4, 272:21, 313:7,

313:14

Proceedings [2] -

289:25, 312:25

PROCEEDINGS [1] -

174:14

proceedings [1] -

181:17

process [11] -

188:11, 189:10,

189:15, 189:19,

228:24, 271:23,

272:5, 294:23,

299:10, 312:7
proclaimed [1] -

201:5

produce [7] - 186:18,

203:20, 213:11,

215:12, 215:15,

224:10, 265:14

produced [3] -

185:21, 209:21, 284:2

producer [1] -

203:20

productive [3] -

249:24, 303:18, 309:2

professional [1] -

199:16

professor [1] - 265:8

profound [2] - 250:3,

272:16

program [15] -

205:21, 205:23,

220:23, 221:12,

225:18, 228:1, 229:2,

230:8, 235:24,

236:16, 243:20,

267:15, 267:16,

284:3, 293:15

programs [5] -

200:10, 235:25,

237:2, 252:15, 252:18

progress [6] -

218:20, 222:2,

230:11, 235:9,

235:11, 264:17

prohibit [1] - 200:9

projects [1] - 257:5

prolong [1] - 269:25

prolonged [1] -

210:3

promote [1] - 210:10

promulgated [2] -

220:24, 221:2

promulgation [1] -

263:9

proper [1] - 289:3

properly [1] - 235:22

property [2] - 214:1,

302:4

proposal [24] -

195:5, 195:8, 195:9,

208:15, 212:15,

227:15, 227:16,

229:20, 234:11,

241:15, 241:20,

269:6, 272:7, 272:15,

272:17, 273:11,

274:3, 275:3, 297:24,

298:2, 298:22, 303:4,

308:21, 311:1

propose [2] - 231:9,

262:20

proposed [38] -

181:4, 195:12,

198:12, 199:11,

208:12, 208:15,

208:17, 209:5,

211:17, 219:24,

228:20, 228:23,

233:17, 250:2,

259:12, 262:2, 262:3,

262:15, 263:7,

263:24, 264:2,

264:14, 264:16,

272:7, 272:11,

274:12, 278:7,

278:17, 279:8, 281:7,

290:5, 293:19,

293:21, 296:19,

296:24, 297:4, 298:9,

298:21

PROPOSED [1] -

174:4

proposing [1] -

262:18

protect [2] - 301:9,

311:12

protection [3] -

218:19, 220:23, 236:1

Protection [5] -

199:13, 200:1,

241:20, 259:7, 259:10

protects [1] - 195:15

protocol [1] - 278:7

proud [1] - 196:3

proudly [1] - 255:12

prove [1] - 218:11

proved [1] - 304:11

provide [20] - 194:8,

208:2, 210:1, 217:12,

222:17, 251:2,

252:15, 252:18,

255:10, 260:22,

260:25, 261:8,

270:12, 270:15,

286:11, 292:1, 292:7,

296:15

provided [11] -

209:6, 222:3, 250:8,

252:17, 268:21,

270:18, 278:17,

294:18, 294:22,

308:12

provides [3] - 194:2,

221:13, 267:14

providing [4] -

249:23, 253:15,

300:13

provision [1] -

293:12

provisions [8] -

208:13, 221:9,

223:19, 291:14,

291:19, 291:21,

293:2, 298:23

PSD [1] - 237:4

PUBLIC [2] - 180:6,

313:19

Public [13] - 176:2,

176:2, 176:14, 180:7,

182:3, 182:12,

199:17, 212:19,

225:20, 288:4, 288:5,

288:14, 294:13

public [43] - 181:9,

181:10, 181:21,

183:5, 183:15,

197:12, 198:1,

198:13, 199:6,

199:20, 201:19,

201:22, 206:10,

214:14, 219:22,

223:16, 229:24,

236:1, 237:8, 241:10,

244:19, 247:7, 249:8,

252:2, 258:4, 269:10,

269:14, 269:16,

270:6, 271:5, 288:22,

290:18, 301:6, 302:4,

302:13, 304:1,

308:15, 308:25,

310:8, 310:14, 311:3,

311:12

publicity [1] - 200:11

published [2] -

279:2, 297:9

pulled [1] - 190:2

purchases [2] -

196:21, 214:2

purports [1] - 228:3

purpose [2] - 219:12,

245:20

purposes [1] -

282:18

pursuing [1] - 264:6

push [2] - 228:21,

257:20

put [8] - 202:17,

202:18, 225:3, 248:5,

285:21, 301:23,

306:17, 308:23

putting [1] - 227:21

Q

Q-U-I-N-T-A-N-A [1] -

258:17

quadruple [1] -

215:18

Quality [7] - 201:12,

293:4, 295:16,

301:17, 301:21,

302:1, 311:7

quality [11] - 185:9,

194:18, 198:16,

198:24, 199:11,

210:5, 216:2, 237:10,

253:9, 253:11, 311:8

quantifiable [1] -

266:13

quantified [2] -

266:8, 267:4

quantifies [1] - 220:3

quantify [6] - 238:15,

265:21, 265:23,

265:25, 266:14, 267:2

quantifying [1] -

276:22

quantitative [2] -

222:22, 292:7

quarter [1] - 292:13

queries [1] - 199:23

questioning [1] -

181:15

questions [34] -

187:9, 187:13,

218:25, 226:17,

226:19, 226:21,

226:23, 226:25,

233:6, 233:20,

233:21, 244:1, 244:4,

244:6, 244:8, 244:10,

270:11, 270:13,

271:4, 271:10,

273:14, 275:1, 276:9,

277:7, 280:21,

284:21, 286:13,

286:17, 287:18,

295:17, 299:7, 308:7,

308:10, 308:13

quills [1] - 186:17

QUINTANA [5] -

178:22, 258:12,

258:16, 259:1, 259:5

Quintana [2] -

258:16, 259:5

quintana [1] - 264:20

quite [4] - 184:17,

262:11, 290:14,

304:19

quote [1] - 283:15

R

R-O-G-E-R-S [1] -

247:18

rain [1] - 276:13

rainstorm [1] - 287:9

rainy [1] - 277:13

raise [6] - 190:13,

193:2, 204:7, 204:10,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

19

216:22, 247:10

raised [3] - 204:8,

272:1, 301:14

ralvidrez@mstlaw.

com [1] - 176:7

Ram [1] - 198:3

range [2] - 256:15,

257:14

ranks [1] - 250:12

rate [4] - 192:12,

209:7, 209:20, 242:22

ratepayer [3] - 209:8,

292:22, 293:7

ratepayers [4] -

214:11, 295:8,

295:20, 306:24

rates [6] - 204:7,

204:8, 215:7, 215:10,

215:18, 216:1

rather [5] - 188:16,

220:16, 231:22,

238:21, 274:10

ratio [1] - 307:4

rational [1] - 267:12

RAVI [1] - 221:1

reach [2] - 292:8,

293:23

reaches [1] - 298:3

read [4] - 221:23,

231:22, 274:14,

297:16

readily [2] - 274:15,

274:23

reading [2] - 207:15,

221:22

reads [1] - 231:3

ready [3] - 193:15,

193:16, 218:25

real [3] - 191:17,

203:12, 206:23

reality [2] - 203:5,

203:24

realize [1] - 203:16

really [31] - 184:4,

191:21, 211:21,

215:17, 216:14,

220:6, 224:15,

229:13, 229:25,

231:1, 231:21,

232:24, 236:12,

238:2, 242:2, 246:15,

248:3, 248:15,

266:19, 272:12,

275:3, 292:10,

292:12, 300:14,

303:8, 303:11,

304:14, 306:12,

307:16, 309:22, 310:1

rear [1] - 250:14

reason [13] - 188:18,
195:10, 226:12,

233:2, 234:16, 236:8,

244:12, 267:16,

274:8, 287:20,

289:13, 295:22,

301:11

reasonable [12] -

194:14, 196:13,

197:3, 218:20, 222:2,

223:9, 223:11,

228:14, 230:11,

235:9, 235:10, 264:17

reasonableness [2] -

302:7, 302:25

reasonably [2] -

221:1, 291:20

reasons [3] - 194:13,

293:21, 308:9

rebuttal [4] - 180:7,

288:6, 289:2, 289:3

recalling [1] - 275:22

recap [1] - 301:20

receive [1] - 209:20

received [3] -

181:22, 228:21, 272:9

recent [4] - 205:24,

209:10, 230:12,

241:19

recently [5] - 206:5,

213:6, 215:2, 262:1,

262:21

recess [1] - 289:25

recognition [2] -

198:23, 200:23

recognize [2] -

194:4, 303:6

recognizes [1] -

223:2

recommend [1] -

215:21

recommendations

[1] - 199:13

reconvening [1] -

181:7

record [16] - 181:12,

181:21, 182:2,

186:15, 211:8,

269:12, 269:23,

271:8, 277:10, 285:1,

288:2, 289:14,

289:17, 290:7,

293:16, 313:11

recorded [2] -

181:17, 313:10

recover [1] - 196:15

recruitment [1] -

245:19

Red [2] - 240:19,

240:21

REDIRECT [1] -

234:1

redirect [2] - 178:7,

233:22

reduce [5] - 195:6,

207:23, 208:14,

296:10, 311:16

reduced [4] - 188:22,

195:7, 224:20, 236:7

reducing [1] - 302:7

reduction [6] -

206:1, 206:3, 206:8,

236:16, 282:17,

282:19

reductions [3] -

194:11, 220:18,

235:11

reference [1] - 234:3

referred [3] - 209:10,

234:23, 287:4

reflect [1] - 223:25

reflection [1] -

291:21

reflects [1] - 225:7

refuses [1] - 224:13

regard [5] - 191:4,

192:5, 235:4, 259:18,

302:16

regarding [1] - 262:2

regards [1] - 193:23

Region [5] - 213:14,

262:2, 262:19, 264:6,

272:16

region [14] - 196:20,

208:11, 208:25,

209:19, 209:25,

210:12, 213:22,

214:9, 250:1, 261:23,

264:12, 265:11,

266:24, 275:8

REGIONAL [1] -

174:5

Regional [3] -

207:20, 263:10,

264:18

regional [45] - 181:5,

193:24, 199:2,

199:20, 201:7,

205:20, 205:23,

206:10, 213:8,

218:14, 225:13,

229:3, 229:6, 229:14,

230:3, 230:7, 230:17,

231:5, 231:10,

233:13, 235:5, 235:8,

235:24, 236:5,

236:11, 236:24,

237:21, 259:13,

259:17, 261:8,

261:19, 262:9,

263:21, 264:15,

272:21, 274:5,

274:10, 274:16,

274:20, 290:6, 298:5,

298:20, 302:23

regionally [1] - 264:2

regions [1] - 205:17

regulate [1] - 241:17

regulated [2] -

208:20, 250:4

regulation [3] -

213:5, 255:6, 291:3

regulations [14] -

220:25, 221:3,

221:24, 222:11,

227:10, 228:1, 228:3,

228:4, 229:6, 232:25,

250:2, 298:20, 302:1,

309:23

regulatory [6] -

208:25, 227:7, 228:1,

229:2, 236:5, 308:3

reject [1] - 207:19

relate [1] - 185:8

related [3] - 193:24,

218:18, 313:13

Relating [1] - 288:5

relations [2] -

239:25, 256:2

relative [3] - 225:25,

277:18, 313:15

relevant [1] - 238:20

reliance [1] - 206:24

relied [1] - 206:12

rely [2] - 209:25,

289:11

remainder [1] -

245:17

remaining [2] -

237:11, 291:9

remains [1] - 297:5

remarks [2] - 290:16,

309:18

remember [4] -

184:23, 228:7, 309:5,

309:21

REMEMBERED [1] -

174:16

remind [1] - 293:10

remiss [1] - 194:4

renewable [1] -

194:5

repeat [1] - 188:9

repeated [1] - 243:19

replace [1] - 215:6

replacing [1] - 215:5

replied [1] - 195:1

report [4] - 199:9,

199:19, 250:11, 299:3

REPORTER [37] -

183:20, 184:12,

187:24, 188:3,

190:13, 190:19,

193:2, 193:8, 193:12,

193:14, 197:19,

197:22, 202:5, 205:5,

205:9, 207:10,

210:22, 212:9,

212:12, 214:22,

214:25, 216:22,

217:1, 245:5, 245:9,

247:10, 247:16,

247:19, 249:14,

249:17, 251:13,

251:17, 255:23,

258:14, 258:18,

258:22, 268:5

reporter [1] - 275:18

Reporters [1] -

181:19

represent [2] -

188:5, 218:12

Representative [1] -

189:21

representative [6] -

187:4, 188:4, 284:10,

284:12, 284:15,

299:22

representatives [1] -

270:8

represented [3] -

218:15, 218:18,

242:18

representing [2] -

182:12, 245:15

request [4] - 206:21,

231:6, 245:25, 293:18

require [4] - 210:8,

224:19, 291:2, 293:6

required [4] -

223:16, 237:21,

296:6, 307:20

requirement [2] -

189:4, 206:7

requirements [7] -

194:6, 206:1, 236:5,

274:21, 293:14,

296:5, 298:23

requires [5] - 200:7,

215:24, 222:2, 228:5,

263:8

requiring [1] -

207:22

research [2] -

199:16, 277:2

reserves [1] - 260:15

resident [3] - 184:20,

188:7, 250:14

residential [2] -

195:17, 209:8

residents [11] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

20

194:18, 198:3,

200:14, 200:17,

200:18, 200:20,

201:10, 209:20,

226:1, 250:23, 251:2

resolution [1] -

246:1

resource [1] - 260:15

resources [4] -

210:1, 239:24,

253:25, 303:1

respect [10] - 218:14,

269:16, 272:4,

272:10, 272:16,

272:22, 273:4,

273:11, 275:6, 286:24

respectfully [4] -

245:11, 246:15,

247:2, 293:18

respiratory [3] -

200:14, 200:16,

200:20

responding [1] -

312:5

responds [1] - 199:4

response [5] - 198:2,

200:3, 200:4, 231:24,

311:2

Response [1] - 288:4

responses [3] -

231:25, 308:11,

312:16

responsibility [1] -

249:23

responsible [2] -

250:17, 253:21

rest [4] - 200:17,

225:15, 253:11, 260:7

restrictions [3] -

257:4, 257:8, 257:16

resubmit [1] - 230:24

result [3] - 224:10,

241:11, 263:4

resulted [4] - 209:14,

223:23, 243:21,

263:16

resulting [1] - 209:15

results [1] - 304:12

retains [1] - 222:8

retention [1] -

245:19

retired [3] - 191:8,

215:17, 252:1

retiree [1] - 190:23

retirees [1] - 266:20

retiring [1] - 265:8

retrofit [8] - 226:3,

234:8, 238:10,

238:11, 238:15,

281:9, 282:4, 309:20
Retrofit [4] - 205:25,

206:2, 220:15, 241:17

retrofits [1] - 230:12

return [4] - 198:15,

199:3, 241:2, 289:19

revealing [1] -

221:13

revenues [1] -

263:17

review [6] - 181:21,

217:15, 234:7,

239:15, 270:5, 279:5

reviewed [1] - 279:4

reviewing [1] -

270:10

revise [1] - 230:24

revised [1] - 208:18

revisions [10] -

181:4, 207:19,

208:12, 209:6,

217:18, 234:24,

259:12, 264:14,

290:5, 293:12

REVISIONS [1] -

174:4

revisit [2] - 235:3,

237:21

rhetoric [1] - 301:2

RICHARD [1] - 176:3

Richmond [1] -

218:7

Rick [1] - 182:2

rights [4] - 201:2,

201:5, 204:10, 248:15

Rights [1] - 200:6

Rio [1] - 198:3

rippling [1] - 263:2

risk [2] - 200:2,

229:16

riverwalk [1] - 184:3

riverwalks [1] -

250:7

road [1] - 234:24

rock [1] - 184:24

Rock [7] - 197:25,

198:9, 198:14,

199:11, 199:25,

200:25, 201:9

ROGERS [5] -

178:14, 247:9,

247:12, 247:18,

247:20

Rogers [3] - 247:9,

247:18, 249:6

rooftop [1] - 203:19

Room [1] - 174:18

room [1] - 192:18

ROSE [6] - 176:15,

182:11, 226:25,

244:8, 289:7, 300:6

rose [6] - 182:10,

226:24, 244:7,

288:12, 289:4, 289:21

Rose [2] - 182:11,

300:5

rounds [1] - 277:23

royalties [5] - 214:2,

242:25, 243:7,

243:10, 253:17

royalty [1] - 263:17

Roybal [13] - 178:5,

178:7, 178:11,

182:14, 182:17,

216:7, 216:11,

233:22, 240:17,

289:4, 289:21,

298:12, 300:4

ROYBAL [20] -

176:9, 182:15, 216:9,

217:8, 218:21, 219:1,

219:4, 219:10,

226:16, 233:23,

234:2, 234:14, 239:4,

239:10, 240:6,

240:14, 243:25,

244:15, 289:6, 298:13

Rudy [1] - 268:7

RUDY [2] - 179:4,

268:1

rule [1] - 232:8

Rule [3] - 207:20,

263:11, 264:18

rulemaking [3] -

263:15, 263:24,

293:12

rules [4] - 257:4,

310:1, 310:24, 311:5

run [1] - 280:13

Runnels [1] - 175:4

Running [2] -

240:20, 240:21

Ryan [5] - 227:5,

275:14, 276:7, 287:3,

292:9

RYAN [32] - 175:10,

187:15, 227:6,

228:22, 229:1,

229:19, 230:19,

231:15, 236:22,

237:16, 275:15,

276:8, 278:2, 278:10,

278:15, 278:19,

279:6, 279:22,

280:19, 282:2,

282:15, 282:22,

283:8, 283:11,

283:14, 283:17,

283:20, 283:22,

284:23, 286:12,

300:18, 312:14

S

S-H-A-R-E-R [1] -

184:15

sacred [1] - 252:24

sacrifice [1] - 265:18

saleable [1] - 260:14

Salt [3] - 240:19,

240:21

San [113] - 174:18,

176:8, 180:8, 182:17,

182:25, 185:12,

185:18, 185:24,

188:20, 190:23,

193:22, 196:16,

196:20, 196:21,

197:12, 199:8,

199:12, 201:19,

205:14, 206:6, 206:8,

206:13, 206:17,

206:18, 206:22,

207:22, 207:25,

208:6, 208:7, 208:23,

209:11, 209:22,

210:9, 212:15, 213:1,

213:14, 213:19,

213:20, 214:2,

214:16, 216:7,

216:11, 216:13,

216:15, 216:19,

217:14, 219:12,

219:14, 226:4,

226:12, 227:17,

235:3, 235:12, 241:1,

241:4, 241:9, 241:12,

241:15, 241:21,

241:23, 242:1,

242:11, 242:15,

242:20, 243:4, 243:6,

243:15, 243:17,

244:16, 245:13,

245:15, 245:17,

245:23, 247:25,

249:24, 250:9,

252:15, 261:6, 261:7,

261:10, 261:11,

261:16, 262:3, 262:6,

262:10, 262:15,

263:7, 263:10,

263:19, 263:22,

264:3, 267:14,

268:20, 269:2, 273:2,

273:19, 276:11,

278:1, 283:6, 283:12,

285:6, 288:15, 289:6,

294:16, 296:3, 296:6,

297:3, 297:19, 298:16

SAN [1] - 180:3

Santa [6] - 175:5,

175:13, 175:20,

176:17, 181:9, 276:11

satisfied [1] - 296:5

satisfy [2] - 233:4,

293:14

saving [1] - 246:13

saw [6] - 185:11,

185:12, 254:4,

276:14, 286:25, 287:6

scenario [3] -

257:16, 284:19

scenarios [2] -

284:8, 284:18

scenic [1] - 259:25

scheduling [2] -

263:5, 263:7

Schlenker [1] -

182:20

SchlenkerGoodrich [1] - 182:20

scholarships [2] -

253:16, 262:12

School [3] - 184:24,

185:2, 252:18

school [4] - 252:2,

252:5, 252:11, 257:13

schools [1] - 195:20

science [3] - 218:7,

220:1, 242:6

scientist [1] - 276:25

SCR [24] - 207:22,

207:25, 208:15,

209:9, 223:16,

224:12, 228:11,

228:20, 229:11,

233:19, 237:18,

263:8, 284:9, 292:20,

295:11, 296:15,

296:23, 296:25,

297:8, 297:11,

297:12, 297:14,

297:20, 304:14

screen [1] - 285:18

search [1] - 305:23

second [8] - 192:24,

223:12, 223:13,

240:21, 248:13,

299:16, 312:14

second-guess [2] -

223:12, 223:13

secret [1] - 224:11

Section [1] - 293:13

sector [1] - 245:23

sectors [1] - 218:13

secure [1] - 222:1

see [31] - 181:23,

184:23, 185:1,

191:22, 192:15,

198:18, 215:17,

218:10, 224:22,

247:25, 248:1,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

21

254:10, 254:13,

266:22, 267:22,

268:20, 273:5,

273:23, 273:24,

279:19, 282:19,

282:25, 287:14,

287:16, 296:22,

299:10, 305:4, 305:5,

305:24, 307:1

seeing [2] - 276:18,

304:18

seem [5] - 246:18,

246:19, 257:8, 304:6,

304:13

seemingly [1] -

276:12

selected [3] -

220:19, 233:3, 238:24

selective [1] - 206:1

selects [1] - 229:11

sell [1] - 260:22

sells [1] - 241:9

senator [2] - 184:15,

194:23

Senator [2] - 184:19,

187:16

senators [2] -

248:21, 249:2

send [2] - 195:25,

256:19

sense [2] - 273:7,

311:19

sensitive [2] - 214:9,

309:17

sent [1] - 187:5

separate [1] - 301:23

series [2] - 225:18,

228:2

serious [1] - 198:21

serve [1] - 212:21

served [2] - 212:18,

255:12

service [1] - 241:10

SERVICE [1] - 180:6

Service [10] - 176:2,

176:2, 182:3, 199:24,

225:20, 245:14,

284:4, 285:19, 288:4,

294:13

services [6] - 196:24,

214:4, 243:3, 260:10,

260:12, 260:13

serving [1] - 246:6

set [7] - 194:11,

202:12, 232:12,

281:4, 296:1, 301:17,

301:18

sets [1] - 281:6

settlement [1] -

231:12
seven [3] - 195:9,

195:18, 199:16

sever [1] - 229:15

several [6] - 190:24,

219:20, 242:2,

249:22, 300:18, 308:9

severe [1] - 307:6

shaky [1] - 219:24

shames [1] - 201:8

share [1] - 212:23

Shareholders [1] -

212:22

SHARER [4] - 177:4,

183:18, 184:8, 184:14

Sharer [4] - 184:14,

184:19, 187:16, 192:7

shed [1] - 208:24

sheep [1] - 253:3

sheets [2] - 201:21,

201:22

shining [1] - 257:23

Shiprock [10] -

184:24, 185:1,

198:18, 198:22,

199:23, 200:13,

200:14, 200:18,

201:11, 256:7

short [4] - 186:21,

215:1, 224:8, 274:11

shortchanges [1] -

272:13

shorthand [1] -

313:10

shortly [1] - 272:22

shot [2] - 225:17,

271:18

show [2] - 184:1,

285:14

shut [5] - 186:12,

186:13, 224:13,

254:17, 257:17

side [3] - 194:22,

256:18, 263:14

sides [3] - 192:3,

311:22, 311:23

sign [3] - 201:20,

201:21, 201:22

sign-in [2] - 201:21,

201:22

signed [1] - 246:1

significance [2] -

273:10, 295:25

significant [12] -

188:15, 189:5,

241:11, 242:16,

250:25, 262:8,

262:25, 263:17,

270:4, 274:2, 304:12,

305:11

significantly [4] -

208:14, 209:19,

213:2, 216:2

silver [1] - 306:4

similar [2] - 263:15,

284:14

similarities [1] -

284:16

simply [3] - 197:6,

215:22, 220:5

simultaneous [1] -

312:16

simultaneously [1] -

222:19

single [2] - 223:4,

304:17

SIP [42] - 187:2,

219:24, 222:9, 228:8,

229:10, 229:14,

229:20, 230:3,

230:21, 230:24,

231:14, 231:18,

231:20, 232:12,

233:12, 234:24,

237:21, 245:25,

247:3, 259:14,

271:22, 272:7, 274:5,

274:24, 279:9, 282:7,

284:14, 293:13,

293:19, 298:8,

301:21, 303:19,

304:16, 304:18,

304:21, 305:16,

310:25, 311:6,

311:14, 312:10,

312:18, 312:20

SIPs [5] - 227:13,

228:22, 233:9,

233:13, 235:9

site [5] - 195:25,

222:21, 224:3, 284:4,

285:20

site-specific [2] -

222:21, 224:3

sites [2] - 211:10,

257:2

situated [1] - 261:13

situation [6] -

199:24, 213:12,

248:15, 281:24,

309:23, 310:3

six [1] - 200:15

sixteen [1] - 197:2

size [2] - 225:22,

227:14

sizes [1] - 277:21

SJCC [2] - 219:9,

240:13

SJEDS [1] - 246:7

SJGS [1] - 180:9

skilled [2] - 252:7,

252:11

sledgehammer[1] -

211:17

slice [1] - 306:4

slightly [1] - 305:7

small [4] - 212:17,

230:1, 251:24, 296:9

SNCR [23] - 208:17,

230:15, 233:9,

237:19, 264:16,

279:13, 282:20,

283:2, 283:9, 284:9,

286:3, 292:20, 293:7,

295:12, 295:18,

295:23, 296:3,

296:25, 297:20,

304:4, 304:13,

304:14, 305:16

so-called [1] -

224:14

SO2 [4] - 188:22,

195:7, 230:7, 274:15

social [1] - 302:4

society [4] - 203:25,

204:18, 303:17

socioeconomic [3] -

241:24, 309:9, 309:14

software [1] - 284:13

solar [3] - 203:20,

215:13, 215:15

sole [1] - 224:25

solid [1] - 294:19

solo [1] - 218:3

solutions [1] -

204:15

solve [1] - 192:1

someone [2] - 199:3,

299:4

sometime [2] -

262:20, 274:17

somewhat [3] -

196:13, 306:15, 307:8

soon [1] - 206:20

sooner [1] - 250:5

sorry [3] - 237:16,

258:8, 277:5

sort [1] - 266:18

sorting [1] - 308:5

sought [1] - 204:14

sounding [1] -

229:17

source [10] - 215:15,

219:20, 220:20,

224:3, 225:25, 232:9,

232:10, 234:7,

248:11, 291:10

Source [1] - 237:3

source-specific [3] -

219:20, 224:3, 225:25

sources [8] - 208:24,

225:21, 234:9,

261:22, 261:23,

264:11, 302:5, 302:8

south [1] - 215:9

Southeast [1] -

218:16

Southwest [1] -

208:9

Southwestern [1] -

176:2

sovereign [2] -

208:11, 261:5

span [1] - 306:22

SPEAKER [2] -

189:24, 190:7

speakers [1] -

202:12

speaking [2] -

201:10, 286:7

specific [18] -

219:20, 220:20,

220:21, 222:13,

222:18, 222:21,

224:3, 225:25, 226:2,

262:14, 277:12,

282:12, 284:5, 284:6,

297:10, 299:19, 306:1

specifically [8] -

227:16, 260:21,

264:5, 277:15,

287:17, 299:6,

301:18, 302:23

specifics [1] - 277:9

spell [19] - 184:12,

187:24, 190:19,

193:8, 193:12,

197:19, 202:5, 205:5,

207:10, 210:22,

212:9, 214:22, 245:5,

247:16, 249:14,

251:13, 255:23,

258:14, 268:5

spend [7] - 188:17,

191:10, 285:11,

296:8, 304:17,

304:19, 305:10

spending [6] -

188:17, 189:6, 189:9,

211:19, 303:15,

305:15

spent [4] - 202:18,

224:23, 243:2, 285:9

spot [1] - 244:23

Springs [1] - 198:3

square [1] - 259:22

ss [1] - 313:2

St [2] - 175:4, 175:19

stack [2] - 287:15,

304:18

stacks [1] - 287:16

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

22

staff [1] - 228:3

staggering [1] -

213:13

stakeholder[1] -

241:12

stakeholders [1] -

264:8

stamps [1] - 191:12

stand [4] - 191:11,

196:11, 218:25,

238:23

standard [3] -

189:11, 208:21, 296:1

standardized [2] -

281:4, 281:11

standards [4] -

194:12, 293:7, 311:8,

311:9

Standards [3] -

237:3, 293:4, 311:7

standing [2] -

200:24, 202:13

standpoint [1] -

196:5

stands [1] - 234:8

start [4] - 229:4,

290:9, 300:17

started [5] - 231:7,

242:4, 247:21,

276:15, 304:15

State [35] - 181:5,

185:25, 195:11,

196:3, 199:22,

205:24, 207:20,

208:13, 208:18,

214:7, 214:22,

222:18, 222:20,

231:4, 231:11,

241:22, 241:25,

250:11, 251:1,

251:13, 251:19,

253:18, 256:5,

257:25, 259:13,

264:14, 265:9,

272:20, 290:5,

290:25, 296:1, 298:3,

298:5, 303:4, 310:20

state [77] - 183:21,

184:12, 184:15,

186:7, 186:9, 187:24,

188:4, 190:19,

191:11, 192:17,

193:8, 194:6, 195:5,

196:2, 196:19,

197:19, 198:23,

202:5, 205:5, 206:14,

207:10, 208:25,

210:22, 212:9,

215:21, 219:14,

219:18, 219:19,
222:8, 223:9, 223:12,

227:10, 228:19,

229:18, 230:2,

230:23, 231:13,

232:12, 233:2, 237:6,

241:5, 242:17,

242:24, 243:1, 243:7,

243:8, 245:5, 245:25,

247:16, 249:14,

250:22, 251:3,

254:18, 255:23,

258:14, 268:5,

273:16, 274:24,

285:25, 291:15,

292:2, 292:3, 293:5,

299:11, 300:25,

301:6, 301:8, 302:24,

303:8, 304:25, 306:1,

306:8, 306:11, 307:5,

308:12, 310:24, 312:8

STATE [3] - 174:1,

174:4, 313:1

state's [22] - 193:24,

194:13, 195:4, 195:8,

195:18, 197:5, 213:9,

213:18, 225:12,

226:13, 232:16,

248:15, 275:6,

292:20, 293:9,

306:14, 307:18,

308:8, 308:10,

308:16, 308:19,

311:14

state-specific [1] -

306:1

statement [6] -

187:4, 193:17,

201:17, 207:15,

223:18, 293:21

statements [3] -

220:5, 221:19, 221:23

states [14] - 205:17,

221:17, 223:6,

227:13, 227:19,

227:22, 228:6,

228:10, 228:16,

231:5, 233:10,

259:24, 297:10,

306:11

States [13] - 199:10,

199:21, 200:6,

218:17, 221:25,

222:3, 222:25, 223:2,

250:13, 254:23,

255:11, 260:7, 309:11

States' [1] - 222:5

stating [1] - 245:25

Station [53] - 180:9,

188:21, 190:24,

196:16, 199:8, 206:6,

206:8, 206:14,

206:19, 206:23,

207:22, 208:1, 208:7,

208:23, 209:12,

209:22, 210:9,

212:16, 213:1,

213:15, 213:19,

219:15, 227:17,

235:4, 235:12,

241:10, 241:13,

241:16, 241:21,

241:23, 247:25,

249:24, 250:9,

260:20, 260:25,

261:6, 261:16, 262:3,

262:6, 262:11,

262:16, 263:8,

263:10, 263:13,

263:19, 263:23,

264:3, 273:3, 273:20,

283:7, 288:15, 294:16

station [2] - 196:18,

273:5

status [2] - 194:18,

309:9

statute [6] - 219:21,

221:3, 221:7, 228:5,

229:4, 232:22

statutory [8] - 221:6,

221:9, 223:24, 225:8,

225:24, 226:6, 236:4,

295:14

stay [3] - 252:12,

254:20, 310:21

staying [1] - 311:13

step [8] - 206:7,

230:9, 230:13,

230:15, 231:9,

231:24, 249:3

step-by-step [1] -

231:24

STEPHEN [1] -

175:11

stepping [1] - 248:23

steps [4] - 225:19,

281:24, 303:18,

303:21

stewards [1] -

253:21

stick [2] - 236:12,

248:17

still [5] - 187:1,

263:20, 272:9,

275:25, 297:5

stimulus [1] - 307:10

stop [3] - 224:19,

229:4

strain [1] - 195:21

strata [1] - 309:14

STRATVERT [1] -

176:4

Street [1] - 185:2

Strickler [1] - 187:4

strictly [1] - 222:22

strike [1] - 222:20

strikes [1] - 195:14

stringent [2] - 210:8,

263:5

strive [2] - 243:13,

250:16

strong [1] - 228:10

strongly [5] - 197:5,

213:9, 214:7, 219:13,

226:12

struggle [1] - 192:16

struggling [3] -

213:7, 250:21, 251:3

students [2] - 252:4,

252:7

studies [2] - 264:6,

277:24

study [5] - 194:21,

194:24, 209:10,

266:1, 275:5

stuff [4] - 192:8,

257:13, 281:20,

281:22

subcontractors [1] -

261:9

subject [1] - 181:15

subjects [1] - 302:5

submit [3] - 231:8,

269:15, 304:21

submitted [6] -

231:18, 273:1, 273:6,

274:19, 282:6, 297:25

submitting [1] -

231:5

subsequent [1] -

263:2

subsidiary [1] -

241:1

substance [2] -

298:19, 299:5

substandard [1] -

260:6

substantial [2] -

261:2, 293:16

substantive [1] -

231:23

substantively [1] -

224:2

succeed [1] - 251:3

suffered [1] - 266:16

sufficient [2] -

205:22, 269:20

suggest [1] - 304:4

suggested [1] -

275:6

Suite [3] - 175:19,

176:5, 176:11

sulfates [2] - 277:20,

279:17

sulfur[1] - 213:3

summaries [1] -

308:6

summarize [3] -

219:2, 219:11, 240:15

summary [1] - 270:7

summer [4] - 208:22,

253:4, 253:16, 262:20

sun's [1] - 257:23

superintendent [1] -

239:25

supervision [1] -

240:1

supplies [5] -

196:17, 196:22,

213:20, 214:3, 243:3

supplying [2] -

261:7, 261:18

support [22] - 186:8,

193:25, 195:13,

195:16, 207:21,

228:12, 234:11,

241:14, 245:25,

246:2, 247:3, 249:3,

254:14, 259:15,

299:20, 303:4,

305:16, 307:18,

307:23, 310:10,

311:17, 311:21

supported [1] -

220:7

supporting [2] -

246:3, 293:17

supportive [2] -

259:12, 264:13

supposed [5] -

223:8, 229:14,

235:20, 264:3, 276:24

supposing [1] -

237:24

surface [1] - 241:7

surrounding [1] -

198:22

Survey [1] - 199:10

sustainability [3] -

210:2, 241:12, 261:4

sustainable [1] -

243:12

svigil@nmag.gov

[1] - 175:14

switch [1] - 185:17

sworn [27] - 184:9,

187:21, 190:16,

193:5, 197:16, 202:2,

205:2, 207:7, 210:19,

212:6, 214:19,

216:24, 217:5, 239:7,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

23

239:11, 245:2,

247:13, 249:11,

251:10, 255:20,

258:11, 258:13,

259:2, 265:2, 268:2,

276:3, 313:9

symptom [1] - 199:2

system [1] - 305:25

T

T-A-Y-L-O-R [1] -

188:2

tack [1] - 211:18

talkative [1] - 300:20

Talkers' [1] - 255:13

taxes [7] - 214:1,

242:24, 243:1, 243:7,

243:9, 243:10, 253:17

taxpayers [1] -

196:21

TAYLOR [5] - 177:6,

187:20, 188:1, 188:4,

192:23

Taylor [3] - 188:1,

189:21, 192:6

technical [21] -

181:8, 181:10,

182:25, 183:8, 192:8,

238:3, 270:4, 271:5,

275:16, 278:22,

288:6, 288:23,

288:25, 292:10,

293:13, 299:12,

302:6, 302:14,

302:15, 308:1, 308:4

technologies [5] -

210:8, 237:12,

237:18, 238:3, 296:25

Technology [4] -

205:25, 206:2,

220:15, 241:17

technology [35] -

207:23, 207:25,

208:15, 208:17,

209:9, 213:10,

220:14, 220:19,

237:22, 278:4, 279:5,

279:8, 279:13,

279:14, 279:20,

280:3, 282:4, 282:8,

283:2, 284:8, 291:11,

295:23, 296:15,

297:16, 305:17,

305:20, 305:21,

305:23, 306:25,

307:1, 308:4, 308:22,

309:20

technology-wise [1]

- 308:4
telephone [1] -

260:12

tem [1] - 193:22

ten [1] - 250:5

tend [2] - 265:22,

294:7

Tennessee [1] -

215:2

term [5] - 202:16,

203:14, 204:3, 210:1,

278:23

termed [1] - 227:14

terminology [2] -

220:17, 234:8

terms [10] - 224:17,

287:5, 295:8, 295:25,

296:5, 296:14,

310:14, 310:22,

311:13

terrible [1] - 229:3

test [1] - 228:15

testified [25] -

184:10, 187:22,

190:17, 193:6,

197:17, 202:3, 205:3,

207:8, 210:20, 212:7,

214:20, 217:6,

225:17, 239:8, 245:3,

247:14, 249:12,

251:11, 255:21,

259:3, 265:3, 268:3,

276:4, 291:6, 291:17

testimony [45] -

181:8, 181:10,

181:14, 182:25,

183:9, 184:6, 185:7,

217:10, 217:13,

217:16, 217:17,

217:19, 218:22,

219:2, 219:11,

219:12, 221:22,

234:3, 234:23,

239:12, 239:16,

240:7, 240:15,

240:25, 241:24,

270:5, 270:7, 270:11,

275:24, 285:2,

286:16, 288:6,

288:23, 288:25,

294:17, 296:16,

298:18, 300:13,

302:14, 302:15,

306:2, 310:14, 313:8,

313:10, 313:11

TESTIMONY [19] -

184:11, 187:23,

190:18, 193:7,

197:18, 202:4, 205:4,

207:9, 210:21, 212:8,

214:21, 245:4,

247:15, 249:13,

251:12, 255:22,

259:4, 265:4, 268:4

Testimony [21] -

177:5, 177:7, 177:9,

177:11, 177:13,

177:15, 177:17,

177:19, 177:21,

177:23, 177:25,

178:13, 178:15,

178:17, 178:19,

178:21, 178:23,

178:25, 179:5, 180:4,

180:5

thankful [2] - 252:14,

252:16

thanking [1] - 294:4

THE [44] - 174:1,

174:4, 174:4, 183:20,

184:12, 187:24,

188:3, 190:13,

190:19, 193:2, 193:8,

193:12, 193:14,

197:19, 197:22,

202:5, 205:5, 205:9,

207:10, 210:22,

212:9, 212:12,

214:22, 214:25,

216:22, 217:1, 227:4,

235:16, 245:5, 245:9,

247:10, 247:16,

247:19, 249:14,

249:17, 251:13,

251:17, 255:23,

258:14, 258:18,

258:22, 268:5, 276:6

Themig's [2] - 285:2,

296:16

themselves [1] -

192:21

theoretical [1] -

309:24

they've [6] - 191:1,

257:3, 281:9, 306:17,

306:18, 311:18

thinking [3] - 204:3,

276:19, 307:8

third [3] - 223:10,

223:13, 248:20

Thomas [1] - 188:1

THOMAS [3] - 177:6,

187:20, 188:2

thorough [1] -

231:25

thoughtful [1] -

298:1

thoughts [1] -

303:25

thousands [1] -

253:7

threaten [1] - 250:22

three [13] - 188:19,

196:9, 205:17,

215:10, 215:12,

261:13, 261:17,

261:18, 262:23,

263:9, 280:14,

281:24, 302:6

three-dimensional

[1] - 280:14

threshold [1] -

305:13

throughout [3] -

218:17, 245:23,

254:22

throw [3] - 191:15,

232:14, 279:24

thrust [1] - 211:6

thumb [2] - 211:18,

228:9

time-consuming [1]

- 294:9

TIMOTHY [1] - 175:9

tipping [2] - 292:21,

293:8

tips [1] - 295:11

Title [1] - 200:5

titled [2] - 288:4,

288:14

TO [1] - 174:4

today [29] - 181:10,

181:13, 181:17,

182:21, 184:19,

185:1, 185:13, 187:5,

188:14, 189:2,

193:22, 202:13,

211:3, 212:14, 256:4,

271:2, 276:9, 291:25,

293:23, 300:14,

302:22, 303:3,

303:22, 304:9, 306:3,

308:17, 309:3,

310:10, 311:24

today's [1] - 205:21

together[5] - 232:7,

246:12, 246:21,

246:22, 246:23

Tom [1] - 192:6

ton [5] - 224:17,

224:20, 224:25,

228:14, 243:1

tons [1] - 296:12

took [2] - 253:1,

281:19

top [3] - 185:1,

247:24, 305:4

topography [1] -

284:16

total [2] - 242:12,

243:5

totally [1] - 191:2

tough [2] - 273:14,

275:1

tourism [1] - 209:25

toward [4] - 220:25,

256:24, 257:20, 306:7

Townsend [1] -

181:18

trading [1] - 230:8

tradition [1] - 200:22

train [1] - 267:17

transcribed [1] -

181:18

TRANSCRIPT [1] -

174:14

transcript [3] -

181:20, 313:9, 313:11

transition [2] -

203:18, 267:13

transport [4] -

272:23, 274:7,

274:22, 274:24

transportation [1] -

218:13

travel [2] - 183:24,

254:22

treatment [1] -

200:16

tremendous [4] -

204:3, 209:24, 295:7,

308:2

tremendously [1] -

189:10

Tribal [1] - 256:9

tribal [7] - 205:17,

214:1, 242:24, 243:7,

261:12, 261:19, 262:5

tribe [1] - 254:1

tribes [2] - 208:11,

253:19

tried [1] - 227:19

triple [1] - 215:18

troubling [1] - 213:6

true [2] - 280:5,

313:11

trust [1] - 262:5

trying [5] - 229:21,

229:23, 246:12,

255:10, 286:9

Tucson [1] - 256:10

turn [5] - 186:15,

216:7, 263:16,

300:10, 312:23

turnarounds [1] -

268:15

twice [3] - 200:16,

203:20, 309:11

two [23] - 192:3,

192:24, 196:21,

200:12, 213:5,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

24

215:10, 215:12,

216:19, 231:7, 243:3,

248:5, 248:21,

260:18, 260:20,

262:18, 262:24,

273:2, 280:9, 292:12,

292:17, 302:4, 306:20

two-year [1] - 231:7

type [6] - 236:8,

253:22, 282:23,

282:24, 287:14, 291:3

types [2] - 296:5,

311:9

typically [4] - 224:18,

281:4, 287:13, 304:16

U

Uhl [1] - 225:17

ultimate [1] - 292:8

ultimately [2] -

214:10, 292:5

um-hum [1] - 283:20

unanimous [1] -

312:17

uncontrolled [1] -

283:6

under [21] - 181:14,

190:3, 194:22,

196:12, 200:5,

200:14, 215:3, 222:6,

223:5, 229:22,

232:11, 275:25,

291:14, 291:24,

291:25, 292:6,

295:15, 301:21,

302:1, 302:13

underground [2] -

241:5, 249:21

undue [1] - 250:21

unemployed [1] -

260:4

unemployment [1] -

242:22

unequivocally [1] -

248:10

unfortunately [1] -

221:15

UNIDENTIFIED [2] -

189:24, 190:7

Union [4] - 240:3,

242:18, 249:20,

256:21

union [1] - 268:9

unit [3] - 240:2,

242:17, 297:13

United [13] - 199:10,

199:21, 200:6, 201:1,

218:17, 243:15,
243:18, 250:13,

254:23, 255:1,

255:11, 260:7, 309:10

units [6] - 215:4,

215:5, 215:25,

247:24, 263:8, 264:16

University [4] -

218:6, 218:8, 242:7,

265:9

unquantifiable [1] -

266:18

unreasonable [1] -

306:2

unregulated [1] -

255:7

up [47] - 184:1,

184:21, 185:5,

192:14, 192:17,

199:13, 199:23,

202:12, 205:22,

206:7, 211:5, 211:13,

223:10, 223:12,

228:13, 230:3, 232:5,

232:17, 233:14,

234:19, 236:22,

237:17, 247:5,

247:24, 252:24,

269:8, 270:11,

270:13, 276:9,

276:18, 277:2,

277:14, 278:11,

278:21, 282:3,

284:21, 286:21,

286:25, 287:16,

293:9, 306:25,

307:11, 310:10,

310:24, 311:4,

311:19, 312:1

up-and-coming [1] -

237:17

upgrade [1] - 191:7

upgraded [3] -

213:1, 213:6, 266:11

upgrades [3] -

190:25, 285:6, 285:8

urge [5] - 210:10,

213:9, 214:7, 256:4,

298:7

urges [2] - 207:18,

210:7

US [6] - 194:22,

241:19, 252:25,

255:12, 260:3, 309:6

useful [2] - 237:11,

291:9

USEPA [6] - 262:2,

262:17, 262:19,

263:15, 263:24, 264:5

USEPA's [2] - 262:2,

263:6

user [1] - 215:7

uses [2] - 224:18,

309:2

USGS [1] - 199:19

usual [1] - 181:24

Utah [3] - 256:14,

259:23, 268:18

Ute [1] - 198:19

Utility [3] - 212:19,

212:22, 256:9

utility [2] - 218:16,

256:8

utilizing [1] - 251:1

utmost [1] - 225:1

V

vacuum [2] - 225:12,

311:6

valid [1] - 290:18

Valley [1] - 215:2

valuable [1] - 260:14

value [3] - 278:25,

302:5, 303:1

values [1] - 279:2

Vanna [1] - 285:17

variables [5] - 277:3,

277:17, 278:6,

279:10, 279:16

variety [1] - 225:21

various [9] - 222:19,

277:21, 277:23,

279:3, 284:7, 284:17,

296:18, 296:20, 298:4

varying [1] - 261:24

Veatch [7] - 233:15,

270:9, 271:14, 273:7,

275:23, 280:22,

287:21

venture [1] - 238:2

verbiage [1] - 304:20

Verde [3] - 198:19,

284:12, 284:13

verify [1] - 285:20

versus [4] - 186:23,

238:10, 288:23,

304:14

vested [1] - 212:24

veterans [1] - 255:12

VI [1] - 200:6

viability [1] - 261:3

vibrant [1] - 185:20

vice [1] - 212:21

vice-president [1] -

212:21

view [2] - 305:11,

305:15

viewed [1] - 236:19

VIGIL [1] - 175:11

Virginia [2] - 218:3,

218:8

vis [2] - 231:12

vis-a-vis [1] - 231:12

visability [1] - 220:22

visibility [55] -

188:21, 188:24,

189:4, 189:9, 197:1,

203:11, 218:19,

220:24, 221:1,

221:24, 222:10,

224:6, 224:21,

224:23, 230:1, 236:2,

236:24, 237:5,

237:13, 246:20,

248:2, 248:8, 248:9,

248:12, 248:18,

264:4, 264:18,

274:22, 276:23,

276:25, 277:16,

277:19, 279:11,

282:11, 282:17,

283:24, 284:18,

290:18, 290:20,

290:23, 290:25,

291:2, 291:12,

291:14, 291:20,

294:23, 295:3,

295:19, 302:3,

302:23, 304:6, 304:9,

305:3, 308:25

visible [3] - 189:3,

279:7

vision [2] - 226:8,

226:10

visitors [1] - 198:17

vistas [1] - 305:5

vocabulary [1] -

255:14

voice [2] - 183:19,

193:23

VOLKERDING [8] -

175:8, 187:14, 232:4,

233:5, 285:24, 286:2,

286:5, 310:6

volume [1] - 308:3

VOLUME [1] -

174:24

volunteer [2] - 191:9,

294:6

vote [2] - 303:3,

303:22

Voters [3] - 207:13,

207:17, 210:6

voting [2] - 308:8,

312:10

W

wage [1] - 245:21

wages [1] - 213:24

wait [2] - 258:8,

274:17

waiting [1] - 271:24

walked [3] - 184:4,

192:23, 305:4

wants [2] - 229:17,

289:4

warming [2] - 255:5,

310:16

warning [1] - 199:19

watchdog [1] - 255:2

watched [1] - 188:8

Water [2] - 240:20,

240:21

water [10] - 185:15,

186:2, 186:23, 187:2,

204:7, 204:10,

204:11, 204:12,

246:11, 260:10

Way's [1] - 243:18

ways [3] - 206:22,

238:9, 242:2

wayside [1] - 267:9

weather [1] - 255:8

web [2] - 284:4,

285:19

week [1] - 204:11

weeks [1] - 273:2

weigh [3] - 259:17,

292:3, 302:13

weighed [1] - 225:24

weight [2] - 221:7,

232:24

weighting [1] - 225:8

welcome [1] - 205:10

Welcome [1] -

216:13

welfare [8] - 191:11,

192:17, 194:19,

198:13, 236:2, 261:4,

290:19, 302:3

well-being [1] -

246:14

well-hearing [1] -

202:10

well-paying [2] -

252:13, 254:23

West [1] - 176:10

western [1] - 263:14

Wheeler [1] - 211:14

whereas [1] - 225:12

whole [10] - 229:2,

231:4, 253:17,

254:17, 254:18,

285:23, 299:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

25

304:16, 311:4

wholly [1] - 241:2

wholly-owned [1] -

241:2

wide [3] - 256:15,

257:14, 291:15

widespread [1] -

266:15

Wilderness [1] -

211:14

wilderness [2] -

197:2, 209:23

WILLIAM [2] - 177:4,

184:8

William [1] - 184:14

willing [4] - 186:12,

186:13, 190:9, 203:21

wind [3] - 215:11,

276:11, 284:3

wind's [1] - 257:22

winds [1] - 208:8

wise [3] - 304:6,

304:13, 308:4

wiser [1] - 305:14

wish [3] - 202:9,

305:7

wishes [1] - 289:20

witness [5] - 216:21,

226:16, 239:5,

243:25, 299:16

WITNESSES [3] -

177:3, 178:3, 179:3

witnesses [10] -

216:19, 271:2, 271:6,

271:15, 275:16,

292:10, 308:2, 308:4,

313:8, 313:12

woeful [1] - 195:21

Woman [1] - 201:3

Women [3] - 207:13,

207:17, 210:6

wondered [1] -

235:19

wonderful [1] -

216:15

wonders [1] - 266:23

woods [1] - 243:24

word [1] - 304:17

words [2] - 223:4,

255:13

workers [3] - 261:9,

261:11, 309:17

workforce [2] -

242:13, 261:12

workforces [1] -

263:1

world [4] - 186:4,

204:19, 230:11, 304:3

worse [1] - 307:12

worst [2] - 211:12,
257:16

worth [6] - 188:20,

189:6, 229:21,

229:23, 248:6, 296:8

wow [2] - 185:10,

191:14

wrap [1] - 312:1

written [7] - 201:17,

211:4, 217:9, 217:19,

219:11, 239:12,

269:14

wrote [1] - 194:23

Y

year [22] - 191:6,

191:7, 191:13,

191:18, 192:9,

192:10, 192:11,

192:13, 196:23,

209:8, 209:16,

213:16, 213:25,

231:7, 231:13,

242:10, 242:23,

243:6, 247:23,

280:24, 296:12,

306:22

years [33] - 185:6,

188:8, 188:19,

190:25, 196:9,

202:21, 203:12,

204:7, 212:18, 213:5,

218:10, 227:11,

234:25, 237:20,

240:2, 242:4, 246:18,

250:5, 251:25,

253:24, 260:17,

262:24, 263:9,

263:11, 265:7,

268:11, 281:3, 299:5,

305:24, 306:19,

306:21, 307:3

yellow [1] - 287:14

Yellowman [1] -

251:21

yesterday [22] -

181:8, 211:2, 219:22,

223:15, 224:16,

225:17, 230:6,

233:14, 234:7, 254:8,

275:24, 276:11,

277:8, 277:9, 277:15,

277:25, 279:6, 283:3,

286:7, 286:25,

308:17, 308:18

yesterday's [1] -

277:12

young [1] - 225:18

yourself [1] - 285:21

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

26

Z

zone [1] - 265:18