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-F ID:A2435945 

. MINUTES OF ARMY -NAVY MEETING 

16 FEBRUARY 1948 

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12 .March 1948 

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-~ :~:~~>":i·;~:.··conterenc·e. of Army and Navy representatives on the subiect 

:$~:··. ot: CCM mod1t1ca.t1on vas held 1n Room 117 Hq.,. Arlington Hall .., -~i5~t1on a~ 1400 on 16 February 1948. The following-were present: 

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ARMY 

- Mr. William F. Friedman 

Mr. Mark Rhoads - AS-14 - AS-14 

!Major J. G. Moak 

! Im 5. Kull back 

·Mr. Leo Rosen 

Mr. H. C. Barlow 

Dr. A. Sinkov 

Mr. H. L.- Clark 

Mr. F. C. Austin 

Mr. K. Kuhn 

.NAVY 

' - AS-23 

- AS-70 

• ~ AS-70 

- AS-74 - AS..;80 

AS~8o 

AS-83 

AS-85 

, Captain M. R. Gerin - Op-20-Y ·. · Captain L. F. Safford Op-20-D 

·comdr. ·A. M. Patterson - Op-20-R 

Captain L. W. Parke - State 

Comdr. D. W. Seiler - NCSL 

Lt. Comdr. J. C. Hargreaves - Op-20-Y. 

Mr. R. H. Shav - Op-20-K ~- L. D. Whitelock - BuShips 

-" cr-, · The chairman opened the meeting by indicating tha. t 1 ts 

>-i.: •. U- purpose vas to discuss two papers: ll) the British document :_-:/·)~;.?:.-entitled- ''Services Cypher Policy Committee Paper No. 3,, 11 of 29 . ? ,· · ·October 1947, and (2) the letter dated 30 January 1948 from the , Chief of-Naval Communications to the Chief, Army Security Agency, · ~ ·~:.' · subject-: ·"Comments on A!'my Proposals Regal'ding the CCM." 

Talcing_up 'the first document, the chairman referred at once . to Paza. 11 thereof and opened the meeting for discussion of t~he 

·British nconclusions." In the absence of technical data concern- . 1ng the nature of the British Typex ~.ark 22, referred to in Pars. 

:5 and ll(a) of the British document, it was agreed that a satisfactory assessmen~ of the degree of security aimed at by the 

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Declassified and approved for release by NSA on 09-20-2013 pursuantto E .0. 1352a 
, 

All present agreed on the validity of the British conclusion 

stated in Para ll(c}~ 

Gapto Safford asked tha~~consideration of Par. ll(d) also be 

deferred ior a few minutes. 4 

As for Par. ll(e), the cb.a.irman stated that obviously that 

conclusion vas not a new idea-~it motivated the Combined discussions early in 19470 

The Navy representatives then introduced into the discussion 

certain ideas, both old and new, concerning possible COM modifications. Among the former v.as the idea, originally put forth in 1942 

and soon abandoned, of modifying the Typex machine itself to convert from mec2anical to electrical control or rotor stepping. 

Authority to ~eopen this line of investigation had been obtained 

and Comdr. Seiler, who thereupon produced dravings, some of which 

-were dated as early as 1942, stated that he was planll!ng to have 

one modiried Typex completed in July or August 1948. It was also 

stated by Comdr. Seiler that all reguired changes to Typex, such as 

an encipher-decipher switch, provision for the new stepping action, 

and reversed motion of tvo rotors could ce incorporated in the 

adapter unit~ The chairman raised the question as to whether the 

British would be willing to spend a considerable s'l!lD. of' money in 

modifying their Typex, in view or their reiterated statements that 

they we~e opposed to major changes in the present Typex and wanted 

a new macbineo Capt. Safrord stated that he had reason to believe 

that the British attitude on this point has changed recently and 

that they might be amenable to considering such a change as was 

now envisaged by Navy. The chairman thought it might be advisable 

to consult with the British before doing mucn ~ork on this line, 

but Capt. Safford indicated a pre:'e:rence for completing one model 

so as to be in a position to convince the British~ by means of the 

model, of the feasibility of the proposalc 

lt va.s also pointed out by ASA reprasenta.tives that if the 

Navy's nev idea for rotatable and interchangeable cam rings vere adopted~ serious changes 1n the Army's SIGROD ma.chines would have 

to be made, and there is doubt ~hether such changes could be 

ma.de. The same applies also to the SIGIVI components. 

Some discussion of. the proposal to incorporate reversed motion 

of rotors into the modi~ied Typex led to a general reviev of the 

reasons for the Navy having embarked on the CSP-2900 program. It 

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was pointed out by tl1e ch2.il'B9.n th2.. t one of tl1e r;rlncipd l r»;"'' 'JC!c:-' 

was a desirE: on the part of Navy to have a rr12ci2ine e!!i.sod-i::.n~~ :::c_,r,e 

principle or principles not known to the British and r8v:?1-~s~<~ -

stepping of rotors was one of these principles; if' rww that 

principle ver,e incorporated in the CCM_, one nf the prime motl 11e2 

f'or the CSP-2900 program was eliminated. 

The Navy representatives pointed cut, ho 11evc: r y tlc.s t tlv; 

principle of reversed s teppins bad a lread:r l::een. incorporro. ted b~f 

the British into RM 26 and RM 32_, and i,.ras therefore ic_ot unkrio-c,'1'-

to them. Furthermore, since 1-'eversed s teppin;; le:, onl~- c•ne ,;f 

several improvements incorporated ;!..Rto CSI'-2?00 its c:_1 :JC lo sure, 

by itself, vould not permit recon2tructior:i. of tlle machine. In 

any case, the Navy was alread;,r committed to the? GSP-2900 and 'C '.1c· 

change vould cost a relatively s2all ::tI!'.ount, :$lCl er :)15 '.~er ~.cbi,1r::, 

if done no...,. They had built special jig3 and tools to f2.c:'..:'..:'..t.::it,,-. 

the change, and they '.Jere z,r)ii',R 2,he2d ~.ritb 'tl"'ce ~::i.c:tlci_n.~ 1-·f tf-Lrc, 

CSP-2900. Comdr. Seile1~ indic2ted t[1at it- L·,::c'.{83 3iJ-rran bour:-J to 

recondition one machine and only 2i addition'-"' l :-:0111°s of 19. bol' 

and $10 worth of parts are needed ·Tor the C~?-2',?CO cLansc::·, 0 

At this point, the ch2i:c!:'lm1 s;;eal.:ing fo~ tl-1e -2.J:'l':y r2pr2:ceri '·?. ~ 

tives stated that he regpetted to hGve to sa:: that the A~:,:1 ro2:1..-

tion vi th regard to CSP-2900 remains unchari,r:::;ed. 

The Navy representatives then displayeG. tc:c srJ.:';'r;le~~ of 4=~K 

embodiment of a brand he-w idea for variable and inter~: ansesole n. .. ...cr~ • .• 

·;:.: , cani contours, an idea of very recent originc 1

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his consisted of s. 

7.t'.) c apli t ring of tool steel which could be mount0d on one l"irn o.f' ·~he 

~?.r. ,,.';sta.nda.rd rotor, the ring fitting into a narro"l groove cut into 

~~~~i...,th~M~1m. The outside periphery of' the ring is contoured fol' c::im-

~~.'1~mi,~,Purposes and the ring_, once mounted, cculd be f:'...xed into 0~,>~position by a spring clip. It vas pointed out thet the new ri~1gs, 

,}:-::...., \""'}vhil,~ mounted .only on one side of a rotor, did not iEterfere c•i t:1 

~f;itj~~r~1ng a rotor in the reverse position, since the roller ricinc 

~ .. '"~ % .r,~lte,~~m contour of the ring could be elongated so as to make t~e 

,J1:,,,~;y4'-cs.ms ef'fecti ve vhether the ring vas on the right or left rir;J o.:. 

~'(¥f";~;;.l..tb.e,.r~tor •. The Army representatives :c1tated their opinion th2.t 

, Fft since rings were to be in~tslled on one side of the rotor only~ 

tlie"'potentiali ties of variable and interchangeable cam contours 

rWI~~'. ·~ere therei"ore reduced. The Navy did not concur in this opinion. ,:,. ~·._, '1 

oF:'l<r'·,~-.: ;> </}> ' '~·'>oii -.:~~·~'.The cha_i1•.man l"equested the Navy representatives to provide 

.>~~A · ·~Jth"' some, ~of. these nev rings and grooved rotors, togethel' 

~-~ mo.cli.t;.ied SIGIVI,, so tbs t studies could be made at ASA as 

,· e _f_e_a_s~~b.il.~_ty of the nev idea. It was agreed t'b.B t the re pl ~r 

, :r.:,I?ff,t,1,t;i',H;:·;~o~ument 'would be held up until these studies 

Bl? Et 'beeri completed. 

fiil·ti_ .i:.t~"~'~ffi~~~i-'~\~~~, proposed next to discuss Admiral Stone 1 s letter -l~l.t->'1'· ·~ ' ' 

. , . , ~·read over pertinent parts thereof, adding comments. He 

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Referring to Par .. 4(a) o£ A·Oi!i±f>al Ston~:4.~~, the 

ch.airman asked whether Navy apprehensions as to CCM security were 

really warranted. Capt. Saf'ford replied that I~avy was contemplating 

being ready for any emergency requiring greater security, say by 

1953. In response to the chairman, who pointed out that all the 

studies of CCM showe.d the. t only highly specialized solutions were 

possible now and tb.a.t these special ca3es arose very infrequently, Capt. Safford stated that Navy reels that modif'ications should be 

ma.de to eliminate all possibility of these special solutions just 

to· be on the safe side. Capt. Safford further stated that 

numerous restrictions on CCM operation, such as limited message 

length, had created the impression throughout the serv1ee that 

the Navy Department _mistrusted the security of the CCM, and this 

mistrust was prevalent througnout the Pacif'1.c F.l41e_t. " . ~~~··~ic:-;c--::: -·~:t~~~- . . 

As for Par. 4{b) of Admiral S~one's letter, the c~irme.n 

stated that ASA will be yery glad to explore'tbe ~oss1bil1ties 

of t~e Navy's riew proposals for CCM mod1ficat1ori and will look 

f'orward to rece-ipt of' a model. . · ·> ''. ; ~- ~:~=~~·>=t/~-· £ •· . . . ~ •' I ~ ~' . . 1 -~ 

. The chair.man passed over Par. 4{c) with the statement that 

the Navy _pos~i t·1on was well understood and needed no further discuss:ton, ·altnough 4

?,,,SA did _not share the SB.me,.. _poi,.qt o~. vj.~v~_._.~ __ _ "·--==~--:- . ·-~- , . l "' ~ L ~t ; • '"'~ 

- As~_f'pr P.a.r •. :.4(d) the ASA agrees with Navy. As·-ror Pa:r·. 4(e) 

the Arm~-shar~s the N~vy view on the ina:dv1~~bility of adopting 

nev equipment J1e.fore fully· tested and pointed out in tb1 s connec - tion that this ,applies, so far as ASA is concerned, also to · CSP-2900. He .felt that the practicability o:f reversed stepping 

had not been adequately tested out and, moreover, the ~ryptographic 

securl ty of -the .Principle bad not been thoroughly 'tes-~ed ~ :bY 

long continued studies; it 18 really not known what ·weaknesses 

are introduced by reversed stepping, which may cUI'e one weakness 

but }?ring in another. However, the Navy, representatives stated 

tha_t they felt their tes.ts adequa.-te and that it ve:s inadvisable 

to a~ait_completion of atudies vhich might take 15 years; ~uCh 

~de1aye are unwarranted and would constitute a block to the intro-

. 'due t~pn of' an~ new ~g~~e _! ;{ l : . . .. l~ ~=--~:_ -:~ ;, ~~~ s -':,~ ~:~~(:-~- ._ ~ -~ ~~x. ; 

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1teferrt.ng to Pa.r .. -1 of' Admiral Stone •s letter, the chair~n 

f"e1t }le coulq only repe~t w:bat was stated before; much to his 

reg~Eit no chang~. in, Ji.~~ ~fA '~.os1~t~o~~'.ct'l~i::~~~ J~df;~~!e:dt!·,:~"-'-1'~:-_ r=·f~ :."'·~~-il 

· . · crteferring_ t:o Par~·6, .. the- cbair~n·-~"Uited the Army she.res the 

Navy _l:>oint· o.f view. Summarizing the discussion, he stated that the~ will a~a1t a_JD,o~e1 o£ the nev modification of the CCM 

pr'g_l;>o_sed by Navy and 1_n the mea.nt1me he vould try to obtain f'urther 

• ~~~~!~~ ~~~r:~'.~~~z~t1~:~:~ 2~eport1ng thereon~,~,-

Chairman 

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