. 

 - " ~ ... .. • 'I -

v o L 91 , No • i .s 1 

2') October 19!4 > 

10208 

REF ID:A39898 

CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-HOUSE OCTOBER 25 

Mr. SMITH of Ohio. Mr. Chairman, 

will the gentleman yield? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I yield to , the gentleman from Ohio. 

8APmVARDING MILITARY INFORMA'J'ION 

Kr. StJMNER8 of Texas. Mr. Speaker. I move that the Rowse resolve itself 

lnto the Commtttee of the Whole Bouse 

on the State of the Union for the consideration of the blll <S. 806> to insure 

further the mllltarJ' security of the 

United States by preventtns c:Uaclosures 

=~~atlon aeeured throUlh ·omclal 

The motion was apeed to. 

Accordi!llly the Rouse resolved itself 

Into the Committee of the Whole Bouse 

on the State of t'he Union for the considerat10n of the bW, S. 801, with llr. PoUllD 

In the chair. 

The Clerk read the title of the b11L 

By unanimous coment, the tint re&dins of the blll·waa dllpemed with •. 

Mr. SUlllQIR8 of Tena. Mr. Chair· 

man, I Jield myself 10 mtnut.es. - Mr. Chairman, the bill being conaid· 

ered, may I 187 for the beneftt of those 

who were not here when we were dlscuulns the rule reaolutlon,- la s. IOI. The 

tlUe of the bill la, to 1Dlure further the 

mllitary security of·the United States by. 

preventlna c:Uaclolurea on Information 

secured tbroUlh oflcl&l eources. 

That title la not ver:v clear. Aa a 

matter of fact: the purpose of the blll la 

to prevent thoae who have &CQ\dred lnformation with resard to the contents of 

code m'eualea by reason of and In connection with their employment by the 

Government, or who have acquired In· 

f Ol'Dlation with retard to the mechanical 

thlnl• which are uaed ID decocUnl these · measa1ea, from lmPartlnl that Information except as authorbled by ~bill. 

The Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy say that thiB 18 especially 

Important and Ul'lent now, because man:v 

people who have been connected with decodinl messages are belnl released from 

1 the employ of the Government, and we 

are advised that after their release there 

la no lelialation and nothlnl else that 

ca11 prevent them from giving away or 

sellln1 this Inf ormatlon which they acquired by reason of that employment. 

The bill has as Its ftnal proviso that 

the provlalons of the bill shall not operate against the committees of the Bouse 

and the Senate seeking to acquire in- . formation. 

If there are any questions that any 

Member would like to ask me In this 

rather Informal discussion of the matter, 

. I would be very glad to yield. 

Mr. SMITH of Ohio. Was it necessary 

after the other war to pass legislation 

of this kind, or was such legislation 

passed? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I cannot advise the gentleman about that. I do not 

know. 

Miss SUMNER of Dlinols. Mr. Cpatrman. will the gentleman y1eld? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I y1eld to 

the gentlewoman from Dlinols. 

Mi,ss SUMNER of Illinois. This matter dtsturbs me very much from the 

standpoint of the press and the Congress 

tr;ving to ftnd out about the mistakes that 

are being made abroad. Is lt not true 

that practically all the lnforDJ.&tlon we 

get about what our Government ls dolng 

with respect to RusSia, England, and 

other countries comes 1n <(Ode and comes 

throll&'h our Government, and la found 

out by reporters and others from bureaucrats? 

Kr. SUllNBRSof Tens. I am not advised as to how they get the Information. 

To be entirely candid, I assume that most 

of the important information or a great 

part of It acquired by the Government 

comes t.o the Government by eode. The · moat Vital aecreta deaun1 with the security of the Government and deallng with 

the operations aa to troopa and other important problems come by code. Reports, c:Uacuss1ons, and· so forth, from our diP- loma~c agents I assume come bJ· code. 

M1sa St1MNER of Illinois. You COUid 

pass a law that would cover that without taking th1a ·whole fteld Thia way, 

tt seems to me that we here In the Conareu and the press will have no way to 

ftnd out the terrible mlstates that are 

made by our bureaucrats In forelsn 

countries. 

Kr. 8UMNER8 of Tau. I appreciate 

the cUllculty of the problem. It la tremendoual;v dlftlcult In deallna with questions of national safety to separate 1n 

lesfalatton those things that can be given 

out by the people who are employed In 

the Government and those that may not 

be liven out by those employed In the 

Government. Kay I call the attention of 

the 1entlewoman to the tlpal section of 

the b1ll which is as follows: 

Nothing ln thlll act aball prohltJlt the ttarnlabtng upon lawtul demand of Information 

to ·any recutarly oomtltuted committee of 

ti. Senate or BOUM Of Bepreaentatlvea Of the 

United 8tatea Of America. . 

Mr. WALTER. Kr. Chairman, wW the 

gentleman y1eld? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Tezas. · I ;vield. 

Kr. WALTER. Does not the gentleman feel that In order to eliminate any 

qq,estion at all, an amendment should be 

1n1erted providing that the Jolnt committees be included? • 

Mr. SUMMERS of Texas. That is perfectly satisfactory. I say to my friend, 

the gentleman from Pennsylvania, that 

in the report on the bill it is stated that 

1t was intended by the Committee on the 

Judiciary that the joint committees be 

included. I think they are included anyhow in effect, but if anybody has any 

question about that we would be very 

alad to have that amendment. I would 
I REF ID:A39898 

£( c 

• 

1945 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 10209 

be very glad personally, as I have indicated to my di~inguished friend, the 

gentleman from Indiana, when he Indicated an amendment which he wanted 

to ofter, that I would be wtlllng In order 

to harmonize the two sides of the House, 

to accept that amendment. In other 

words, may I assure the gentlewoman 

that-there is no disP<>sition, certainly not 

on my part, and I do not believe there ts 

any disp0sition on the part of anybody · on the Democratic side, not to do this 

thing right. · Miss SUMNER of IDinots. I do not 

think there ls either. 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I think we 

are trying to do the Job right. 

Miss SUMNER of IDinots. I think It ls 

a dtmcult thing, but I want to call the 

attention of the gentleman to this point, 

that even tf ·YOU have that amendment 

you do not have your Investigations by 

your congressional committees, and some 

Member would have to ftnd out, perhaps 

from some bureaucrat, of some of these 

egregious mistakes that are made and 

expose them here on the 1loor of the 

House. I loot baclt at my speeches since 

I have been 1n Congress. Half of them 

have been obtained through some bureaucrat or somebody In the military. I 

think it ls extremely imPC>rtant. • 

Mr. SUMNERS of Tens. I appreciate 

the importance of it. 

Mr. SCRIVNER. Mr. Chairman, will 

the gentleman yield? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I Yield. 

Mr. SCRIVNER. One thing that disturbs me ls this posstbillty. There are 

many men now in the military or naval 

service who have personal knowledge of 

some things which were done ·that we 

know should not have been done. 

Mr.· 8UMNERs of Texas. If the gen- tleman will permit me to Interrupt him, 

that information woUld not be aftected 

by this legislation. 

Mr. SCRIVNER. 'l11e reason I say I' 

might Is because some of that material or 

something with reference to It might 

have been transmitted by cryptograph 

and, therefore, I am fearful that under 

subsection 3 on page 3 It mtght act as a 

gag upon those men to prevent them 

from telling me or giving me some Inf ormation that I think the public should 

have. They woUld be fearful of the posslblltty of a penitentiary offense for disclosing to me something that did not 

come to them through cryptograph but 

through the agencies of government was · transmitted In another way. If that ' 

were true, they would not feel free to 

permit the disclosure of that Information. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the 

gentleman from Texas has expired. 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself ftve additional 

minutes. 

That has to happen when a country 

ts protecting the secrets of the Govern- . ment. 

Mr. SCRIVNER. I agree With the 

gentleman, in time of war that Is true, 

but now the war is over. There are some 

mistakes which were made, wftich, 1f 

brought to light now, might not be repeated. 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. The war Is 

over in a sense, but the clean-up ls not 

over. I think the situation ls Just u 

black In the world today as It can possibly be. 'nlat ls my Judlment about 

It. I do not think this country ever faced 

a situation much more critical. I think 

we should be pretty careful right now. 

Mr. MICHENER. Mr. Chalrman, wlll 

the gentleman yield? · Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I Jteld. 

Mr. MICHENER. I J1.11t Wlnt to em- ~lze what my d1stlD1ulshed ehalrman has Just said, that we ought to be 

pretty careful now. My objective is exactly the same as that of my chairman, 

as he knows..... 

Mr. SUMlfERS of Texas. I tnow that. 

Mr. MICHENER. Does not the chairman really think, 1n view of the questions that have already been asked, and 

considering the uncertainty of the committee itself as·to what this lan1U&Ce 

means, that It would be well to take thla 

bW bact to the Committee on. the Judiciary, U Jt ls an emer1ency, assemble 

the committee at once, have the people 

wlto drafted the bW come betore the 

comwtttee and tell us what they, at least, 

had 1n mind? Does not the 1entleman 

th1nk that wOUld be sOOd leatalatlon? 

Then W4' could all get back of the thing 

that we understand, because we want to 

prevent leatases. which th18 bW attempta 

to preve~t. without brtnliDI ln. any extraneous ot political matten. 

Mr. SUMNBRS al Texas. I think It Is 

highly Important to prevent the thing which the· Army and Navy la tl'J'lDg to 

prevent. I think It is hl&bly important 

to do It now. I 1&)' this to IQ dlltlnIUiShed friend from Mlchlaan, and I 

make this statement publicly: If thla bU1 

Is enacted, and It deTelops that the danger grows out of the leelllatton, which 

seems to be the apprehenslon on the part of some, the Judiciary Committee would 

Immediately tate cognizance of that fact 

and bring In remedial lectslatJon. That 

ls what I believe. 

Mr. ROBSION of Kentucky. . Kr. 

Chairman, wtll the gentleman Jleld? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I Jfeld to , my friend from Ketttuct1. · Mr. ROBSION of Kentucty. I am In 

full accord with the provisions of the 

bill on page 1, as far as any Information 

concerning the nature and preparation 

or use of ~DY code, cipher, .and so forth 

ls concerned, the mechanics of It. That 

ought to be protected. But what I do 

object to Is on page 2, where lt precludes 

the use of any Information which has 

been or purports to have been derived 

from code messagea. · In other words, let 

the mechanics be protected, but the messages should be liven to the public. 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. What ls the 

use of protecting the machine 11 ycu do 

not protect the material that goes through the machine? 

Mr. ROBsION of Kentucky. But the 

messa1es. 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texu. The only Importance of the machine ls that it has to 

do with messages. 

Mr. ROBSION of Kentueky. No. 

They claimed In our committee that the 

purpose was to prevent the dlscloetns of 

how our code was made. 

Mr. SUMNERS oj.. Teu.s. Np. It was 

both. 

Mr. ROBSION of Kentuclq. But 

when a message has lteen translated Into 

Bnallsh, It ought to be available to the 

people. 

Mr. SOMNER8 of Texas. If you are 

101nl to permit people to peddle around 

what they got from the machine, Jet 

them have the machine. What is the 

use having the machine? · Mr. JONKMAN. Mr. Chairman, will 

the 1entleman yield? 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. I yield. 

Mr. JONKMAN. The gelltleman has 

said that, due to the fact that a great 

many employees had left the OoYemment, these codes will becom~ public 

property. Would It not be simpler to 

change the codes? When a trusted employee leaves a bant, theJ chance the 

combination. 

Kr. SOlllUR8 of Teua. No. What 

they are trytnc to do ta t.o prevent publicity on ma1111mportant codes. We are 

not through with this war. We are sitting on dynamite rlab! now. 

The CBAIRMAN. 'Ibe Ume of the 

1entleman from Texas bu again expired. · Mr. HANCOCK. Mr. Cbalrman. I 

yield myself 10 mlmltes. 

The CHAIRMAN. , Tbe sen"=an 

from New Yort 18 .recoplled fCJl" lt 

minutes. 1- . ____ _ 

· llr. HANCOCK. Kr. "D&ll'lll&D• I 

hape Ulla debate will not depnerate Jnto 

a party luue beC&use there abou1d not be 

any poUtlca In lt. Tbat la ·wbat lt_hu 

been t.hua far. Tb1a bill Involves the 

Army, the Navy the mate Depmtment, 

the Piii. varioua other departmmta of 

the Oovemment, and the national safet7; 

we are all JntereGecl allke. reaann .. Of 

party. It 1oes far bQond the Pearl Barbor controver&)'. . As the bill atanda DOW I ·C&DDCJt SO 

alODI 'filth It. There are certatn slarinl 

defects wblcb QUSbt to be corrected. and 

I thi!k :rou will wee that tbq -sboUld 

be If 1ou will follow the debate cloaeb . and put &DJ' partisan Ideas JOU may have 

out of your minds. -· · 

Mr. BOPPBrt'. Mr. Cbalrman, will 

the sentleman Jield? 

llr. BANCOCK. I.et me Ontsb, please. 

In '1111 Judpfent Udl 11111 was not m111-

clentl7 considered el\ber In U. lena*e 

or In the Roule 3udtelary Commmee. 

It passed the Senate without debate. I& 

was 1eported favorably to our fuJI committee by aubcommittee Ko. 2 after bearinl onlJ two witneues, one from the War 

Department and one from the Na~ Department. When it reached. the fuU 

committee It was considered vel'J brteft)'. 

Although opposition was expreseect the 

blD was reported out. Let us see what 

the bill does. 

It ls divided Into two aedlona. Section 1 applles to members of the armed 

forces of the United Btatea and employees of concerns and corporattcma, 

perfonnlDI semees for the United Statell. 

Section 2 appllea to members of *Ile 

atmed forces of a forelsn nation or employees of any f oretln nation. · Otherwise section 1 and section 2 are practically identical. 

I J:>eUeve that clauses l, 2, and C, of 

both section 1 and section 2 should be 

passed. They are highly lmportan& tn 

war and peace and are desisned to protect and preserve tbe aecrecJ of our 

codes and our methods of cryptoarapby: .. and it would be suicidal to do otherwise. 
REF ID:A39898 

10210 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE OCTOBER 25 

At the same time they are desianed to If that provlaion should be taken liter- Job than this bUl displays on the ftoor at 

protect the secrecy of our cryptanalysis, •lly a member of the inteW1ence branch this time. 

the methods we have of detecting and of the Army would be committing a sert- I want to correct some misapprehen- breaktng down and interpreting the oua crime if he transmitted to his own .ions arts1n1 from what occurred in the· 

codes of foreign nation& These two superior omcer the contents of an Inter- debate on the ftoor today. 

things are advisable at any time: in time cepted messa1e without the consent of As a member of the Pearl Harbor Com-. 

of· war they are vital. . I bellevE\ that our the Secretary of War. The story of the mttt,ee I want to say that I hope no Memcryptographers In the war with Japan recent World War can never be told if ber on this floor on either side. will atdid aa much to bring that war to a sue- that languve remains In the bill. Gen- tempt to inject politics Into thla debate 

·cessful and early conclusion aa any other eral MacArthur, General Marshall, Gen- on the Pearl Barbor l&sUe. I hope no 

croup of men. Their wort saved thou- eral 2isenhower, Admiral Nlmttz, and Member of this Bouse wtll besmirch the 

sands of precious lives. They are en- Admiral Halsey could never write their Investigation by speatiD1 politically blmtitled to alory and national 1rat1tude own bloaraphtes an4 memoirs because self, and then commendini others for 

which they will ne•er reeelve. We broke practically all of the communications, not having politics in it. I do not propose down the Japaneee code almost at the Intra and Inter the various W!partments, 't.o do that. The fact Is that the Army besfnntna of the war, and we Jmew it at are communicated by secret messages tn bas made available to out committee, in-: 

the ftnlab of the war. Because of that code. If one of our own 1enerals or sofar as we have beard. eveeythlnS retnowledse we were able to ID'9rcei>t and admirals or diplomata wanted to tell the quested, lncludlnc secret clocumeDts. 

·destroy practtcally'evel'J' supply ship and &to1'7 of bis participation In the war be The fact 18 that the Navy baa made ava11-

convo7 that tried to reach the PblllJt- would have t.o cet permilllon from the able to our committee evel'J' available 

p1nea or any Pacl1lc Island w, tnew, , Secretary of War or 1'•Y7 or Btate be- document and source of lnformatton. lnfor example, that aborU7 after l(ac- fore be could dlvuld &DJ information be clucUns secret documents. The fact la 

Arthur lencled on 1-tie a 1atse convoy save or recelftd UlrOulb tbe codel. We that the ·SecretarJ of State bu desla'-

wlth '8t008 Japane11 ........ Voep9 

_w ,,.. • 

di.I- do 

~ .. 

not 

~ want .--:.1A 

to 

~ 

do be u.t. publ~ Bo· complete ..._ anw n&llCU .__.. aev era1 persona In "-•-

um ~·~ ~ llMMl•H patched to reinforce W&C.•••1191HH &Ol'Cel --.,- '-"'UR.I ~-- _WIQ,I u,, -- .. _..--•-to mat __.."''-• 1n that there. TheJ were'met by our~ newspaper or 'mapstne about the ree- ""~ ....... _.._e ••~.Jw.NUa br our alrplaw at eea aDd were fd.enl'- orda ot tbla war un1111 a crime· was Department ava•

1

•ble to our eomm•tae. 

ArdblAMft 

dltlt!rect.·· .. er-. sm.U Kot 

eDliple: 

a Jap OUr reMbld 

ton:ea 

IAJte. 

knew ec-mtttedb.rmeonepuntmat>Je.bJlmJ)dlonment for 10 )'eal'I or .b7 a 1lne of 1ll• 

~==~=~:: of tbe. White· Boule. 1n Jbde Park 

th&& a certain btab-ranttna' .1apUeee •10,GOI or both. · . or ellewhere, will be made uallable to 

admlral w beaded for ·a cerialp spot When the CWnmlttee conalden tbla · our commlMee. I· aee no reuon for any at a cert&tli time. When be arrived bW under the 1-Dllllute rule I propoee to .__ do r ____...__ there our planes were on band to re- Ofter an ...,.,dmem to strike c1au111 3 Intimation or .1.1muen ° •-..~ on 

celn blln. I meot.iOD ~ two. ID- and. a of aectlona 1.and 2 so that the the floor of tbll Bouse or elsewhere that 

ctmce1. .,, ~ Jae multlPlled ~ ~· Janauaje can be conatderecl there has been any witbl>oldtq of lnforttm• to lboW boW tm»ortant lt la to in conference and IOID8tb1nl lntelllient mat1~n b7 &!U'One w~. 1mofar 

=

our ..uaodl and our ~ ot INt written. 1 hope we will not .,._ a u the ·tacts that I am acqnaJnted with, - wi& .m•aaes and of Inter.. wn 'ttlth _;cb druUc and ______ ,..,_ and l have attendecl eve17-meetilns of the 

·..::...-.L::::.: UA¥ •u · U&U~Uau&V cammittee tlfere has been &'*ti~ DO 

cepUns ad unei .. eUas the wret mes- . ianauase In tt u aPPJMS tn um bill. · wtthbolcttD. 1 do not propdee to ~e ..... of a forelln nation. . I WU amazed to eee· IOD1e of U1e IO• __ the Pearl Jiarbor ComJntttee eseeuUTe 

But when· we eolile to Clauw· I ~ S ~ed llberall of t'1la Bouse stand up 1e11lona and dlscUll them on Che aoor of 

of both ~ 1 and 2, I ~e the and defend U. bill ~ u ·report.eel. this Bou.e but I do not nnt aDJtb1ns 

i.m SOii ,,. beJmd ~ realm of rea- The AmerJcaD PIGfle do no& like t.o be that ocourie4 In tbOle committee meetIOD. tar 1-0IMI ~um ~Ileen Paed and tau• t.be _. tboroulh Job lnll t.c> be the subJect of any mlsUnderdO• tiefore; and If JOU re9d them care- ' . of pa.IDS I ~ft eft1" aeen attempted ataJltdtn11 or mlaquotatlona or &117 . lntalb'. r ..at·tt JOU lift roar &ppronL la the eon1111• , numdoa or aw 1ntsmat1on that evertlAtt me ret.cl U.. claUlel to JOU ID-con- llr. Cbalrman, I naerve the balance thlnl 1'&a not been going alonl the Wie 

deneect form: · of!:! !~~·....a ~- ,.... ... 1__ 1 ...... 1

d of • cdmplete, 'tborouch. hon.est 'd1aclo- Whoner • .., "f1rtue of hll 8mploJment- -.u-. wn.u~....,,. ...... .., ....... uu.w. ,,__ aure to tho American people. , 11&Yinl obtalucl or h&YIDS lmoW1edp of u1 -I minutes t.o the 1entleman from Penn- , There ls apparent17 an amendment to 

-~ ... -= ::.::n= :~:.:; ~~~~uarallrrl;.,._. ___ I t bl offered to MCUon I •Jina that Joint ... .,...., Cir~ Gr crntana- lllUo8aVDr.A&e •"AHN£UNN&, wall C'.olDmltf'.- &f9 •to be lncluded. There 

1f'IOal .,. ..... of u.. vntted ata• or •1 =:cT::zii:,.th~S:=:tW:C::: Sa a11o -a propoeecl amendment bF = :~= A:f :"'.:!cm:. J)OB&). 'lbe tblDI that troubles me about aenUeman from Iildlana =:ie Com 

flaill ·Ol"ft*nal,.S. Of m_. nmmttted the wbole matter la tbe fact, u the· aen- not precluMna tbe Pearl . - ._._ tJemaD pointed_.. tbat this bill neue41 mtttee from worklns, notwitb8tandlns ~~ :::-:=. ':~~;O:.:: the Senate wttboo'7deb.te and that there the fact that 1eetion ~ aeem• to be rather 

bf a. UMI at • _depart.lunt « aaenCJ br were on!)' two wttn ... before the aub- all-lncluatw. But it la a fact that aecfttoll aucb penoa wu m:iaplOJ9Cl, oommunt- commttt.ee 1n the lloQle. tlon I waa written 1n June of th1.a 79&1'. 

eat., tumtm, or -.,mn1t to aaotber or pub- The fact 18. that the. letter from the Iona before the Pearl Barbor Committee 

Ullb an1 such tnforme&ton or material abal1 8ecretar)' ot War t.o the d1at1nautahed waa ·created. ~en there II the sus-

'bl tlmcl not mare-tball •10.000 ar lmp&11oned Speaker In the report II dated Karch 10. teated amendment bJ the dl.it1Dplahed 

~ more tbaD 18. fWI or both. 1HS and ~ letter addressed to the di.I- genUeman from New Yort u to aect1on 

That meana that &nJQDe In the aov- ~ chairman of the JudlclarJ 1 <I>, which pertatm to the material. and. 

ernment lel'Ylce who, bJ reuon of bis em- Coumdttee bJ tbe 8ecretar)' of war and aa to eectton 1 <I>, wblch pertatna to the 

pJoJment. Obtalna an1 lmowlectse of any the SecretarJ ot the N&\'F 18 dated Sep- Information be1na mt.de available . . Jdnd derlved from • Code mes1&ge ot ~ tember 1'9 lMI. ~tty moit of tbe · I voted for tbe rule because I wanted 

or a-toretsn countrJ cannot communl- consideration of tlds bm ltself was atven the bW to be dlacUlled on the ftoor ltnd ~ate lt to atiJODe wh&Wver, for- &Q par- prior to ihe end of the war and prior I wanted to have an opportunity to dlapoee, or at &DJ' ttme from now ubt11 to the creation of the lo-called Pearl cua It. But for fear that any etttzen 

doomsday, without flrlt obtldnlnl the Barbor Committee. · ot the United States would have the 

express consent of bis department head. I have never In my abort experienCe In aUahtest auaptclon of any politics in Ulla 

SUch a provision can be Wied lt> conceal the Bouae seen more confusion about a Pearl Barbor inquiry or ln this contro1nelletenc1 and W1'0DI dome. to prevent b1ll than bu been- expreasect wttla ref- .ver11. I believe that the proper procedure 

a man being court-~ from prov- . erence t.o tb1I one and wblle I have the fa not to write a bill on the floor Of the 

ma in hla own detenae the orderl \IDder greatest respect and admtratlon for the Bouse but to have it recommitted to tlle 

which he acted. aad to put the aea1 of Cc>mmtttee on the ~'!~ I tbint t.he committ.ee and report b_act a good bill 

co11;1plete and pei8aaaeM .ecreq on facts members of that co ttee are capable 1n which there could be no suspicion of 

"the American people ousht to ~w. of dotoa a more tboroU1h and convtnclnl politics In th1a bod1 • 
. ' ~ 

. . . :;,; ~ . .. . ' - REF ID:A39898 

• 

• 

1945 , CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 

Mr. HANCOCK. Mr. Chairman, I 

yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from 

California f Mr. GJ:ARHARTl. 

Mr. GEARHART. Mr. Chairman.I am 

extremely hopeful that this bill will be 

recommitted to the committee whence 

1 t came for further study. · I am sure 

that if we are as careful as we ought to 

be in legislating on this day that that will 

be the result of our deliberations. 

I wonder if there ls any one here who 

does not realize that if the measure 

which ls now under consideration had 

been on the law books of Prance following World War I. that Clemenceau would 

not have been able to write his now celebrated memoirs: that if similar legislation had been on the statute boots of 

England that Lloyd George would nothave been permitted to write his informative memoirs: and if it bad been on 

the statute booki of the Unite(j States at 

that time Secreary of State L&natna 

would not have been able to write bla 

memoirs, all three of wbicb, with hundreds of others from the pens of rank1111 Government o1!lcials of that day have 

contributed so much to tbe wrltlnl ot 

the true hiatol'J of World War I. 

We have been told, also, ·that there ta 

some sort of aii emergenc1 wb.lch requtrea 

the immediate placing of this bill upon 

the statute boots, even thoqh, aa the 

record discloses, the measure has, been 

permitted to rest serenely in a committee-room pJae0Dhole, aatherlns dust, 

10 it would seeJJl, since away Jut June. 

Suddenly, somethina has bapatned, 

what, I do not mow, to rekindle the cty. 

log embers of-·this as1ns eJneNellcy into 

a ractn1 ftame reqUirinl our tnstant attention. Could it be the returning Tyler 

Kent or the ln~tion of the catastrophy of Pearl Barbor Ulat bas created the· 

net<f for emerseney action bJ the Con· 

gress. That question I will not attemp' 

to answer. . Let me point out to my coUeaaues that 

we have been fllhttna wan for almost 

170 years. We have been 1D about 10 

maJor and minor con111ctl worth7 Ill the 

name of war. They have all been concluded, and the historiana t.hen have 

taken up their pens to write down the 

true story of their causes an41 eftecta. We 

have never 1D all that 1'10 years felt the 

necessity for any such tonaue-tJ!Da, 

1ant111 leatslatlon aa thl8 which ~ pro- posed to UI today. 

Mr. WALTER. Mr. Chairman, w1l1 

the gentleman yield? . Mr. GEARHART. I yield to the dis· 

tingulshed gentleman from Pennayl· 

vania. 

Mr. WALTER. I should like to correct 

the gentleman's statement, becauae the 

language of this bW follows exacily the 

language of the bill tha! .relates to the 

State Department enacted by the Congress in 1933. • • 

Mr. GEARHART. Smee the leglslation to which the gentleman refers was 

enaeted long before I bec~e a Member 

of this legislative body, I need offer no 

apoloates for it. However, it cannot be 

said that the attention of that Congress 

was then called to the evils which are 

contained in the bill that Js before us 

today, and that they took the action they 

dld in the light of the conditions of this 

day. ~at would be attributing to them . 

oracular powers which, I am quite sure, 

they would not themselves Jay claim to. 

I say to you, I want a truthful, fearless, and untnftuenced histol'J written of 

this war Just so recently brought to a 

victorious conclusion. · It la because I 

feel the necessity so sincerely that I accepted membership on the Pearl Harbor 

Investigating Committee, this in the hope 

that I mt1ht contribute something to 

that end so devoutly to ·be desired. I 

could not have p~ued my committee responsibilities with such enthwtiasm uP to 

this date U I had thouaht that any fftters such as are contained in th1& blU 

were to be placed upon tis. 

If tbts bill bad -been enacted earlier, 

we would ilot have received to date all the 

reports which have been referred to by 

my distingulshed colleague from ·Pennsylvania. the top· 8ecret reports •which 

have come t.o.·a. from the War Department, because the omctala of that sovernmental ageney would have had to run 

and 1et pe~•1aiim from all 10rta of bia'h 

omc•ala before the)' eo~d b&Ye ~ealld 

tbe: tnforniatton to ua. If rou put this 

b11I on the Mtute boots tomorrow and 

there are still further rf9PUl'tis to come k> 

us, aWl further reports that we are leektng. UleJ will not be releuecl to U1 with 

such facWtJ and 10 free17 u, the ODM 

that have aJreaQ been placed in our 

hands, because. there w1l1 be a Procedure 

to be folJowed. there wU1 be reaulatlona 

that w1ll bave to be complied with, authorizations which wm have tA> be secured 

from the Wb1'e Rouse. Then would be 

no end to the ~ ~ U.t would bave 

to.be untanaled before all tile nsulatlona 

to be Pl"Olllulpted-by the 8ecreW7 Of 

state, the Secretal7 ol War, and the Sec· . ret&l7 ot the Ra"vy under tbla leslalaUon 

could be compUed wttb. 

I ut JOU to defeat tbJa lellalatton, or, 

better than that, eend It back to the 

committee on a motion to reeommit for 

fUrther conlkleratton. · Mr.~ of.a'eus. Kr. Chairman. I )'ield I minutes to Ule pntleman 

from Tennessee CMr. KDAuva1. 

llr. KBPAUVD. Mr. Chairman, It ls 

unfortunate that there la any mtaunderatandlns about th1a lellslatlon. I aa1 

frankl1 that I thtnlt It would. have been 

better If we could haft had a .bearlna 

and brouaht out theee potnta that have 

been raJaed here and had them settled In 

the eommtttee. Pull bearlns• would 

J>robabJt h_&Ve prevented tlm UD~tJ 

and mtsunderstandlDs on the 1loor. 

. I clld not WDk at tbe time the bill left 

the cOa>m•Uee there wu much qut!Btlon 

about It or opposition to it. I am sure 

eVel'JbodY la apeaktng with the best of 

motives, because, 1D tbe ftnt place, I am 

certain that everyone wanti to protect 

the codes on which we have. spent 10 

much money, on which we have worked 

ao hard and which are needed for our 

protection. I am also certain that no 

one here wants an omc1a1 of the Q9vernment who in a aecret capacity or 1D a 

conftdenttal capacity, 1ot Information 

which sWl might prejudice· or endan1er 

the lives of our· soldiers In the far-ftuns 

spaces of the world, to divulge that in· 

formation be secured in. a con1ldent1al 

capacity. On the other hand, I fully 

appreciate the concern that some Members may have about one section of this 

bill. No one la more -• tUD· J to 

protect our freedom of 111eecll aai Gf· 

the preaa. Wblcbever coune the mat&et 

takes, I thtnt it la onlJ fair -lo eaU Ul1I 

to the attentJon Of the lleaiben of U. 

Bouse. . on June 10.-1m. the IO-Called diplomatic code biD, which ls a Statatea ·122. 

WU· passed after & full heariDI and & 

great deal of debate both ID the Senate 

and the Boue of Representatives. Jf 

you will look.at the blD \lllder -~ 

tlon while I n=ad the sectloa-4 Uiai bJD - which perte1ned to dlplom.U. codet 10U 

will see that there Is not ftl7 ~ '. 

difference. I read: , _ 

Whoever by Tirtue ot i..18 ~t bf 

the United Stat. lbaD obtain from ....,... 

or aba1l baft cmtoclJ ol ar w• to or lball. 

ban' had emt.odJ ot WI• to DJ 0•11111 

dtplomatle eode Gr ADJ lllMW pl II 9" ill 

ADJ ncb ooM or ~ paljMil to .. .. been pnpared Ill ..., ......... ..... 

willfUllJ and dbcNt ~ ....... 

petem ......... ,..,. ... •='•: ..-

other aDJ .uala aodl ar matt.r. • .., t"1 I 

•blch VUlmdlllOll ... obtalDecl ...... ......... - . . ··~· . • 

mmt and •• dlplometle =: · .. 

Vnlt.ed ...... llMll .. ---... ... tlO.OOOar.....--Saa& ...... ..... GI' bot.II. , .• ... ,, . -< - .. ·· 

J think JOU wtD bd, ...... ..,... IUbltanee Of tldl 11111. fta _.,,.. z- . ence la ti. '1111 ~-.. ._ "Z':Z. ·u.i ·code mn111ea ID caaNtem · 

tbe armed .-vlcee. .. . 

~. WALTJZR. llr.ct.bma,.mtlle 1entle!nan Ji*lt, · · ·_. · .. · ~" -

_:f·DP~. I~ .... tbe.1d,_. . ' . ' . /. 

llr. WALTD. When wu -.& ..._ . ......... , . 

11r.wwwuva. ·Tb1111 .......... · 

acted ta J\me.11, Jiii. · D 1141 •1tai11 

122. D na meeted au.r, ..... d•iN 

and after all argumeB& 1N9.Sf Pde tba& & 

mtaht .u1le the _prell tW 'D. Efrl\e db 

the freedom o1 $b8 pr:i.=r------· m•sJ>t no& • able to ~·· •• um Wbteb lbouJd 1n u.e PIMle IJltinlt 

be published. Yet, J haft beard De .. 

complain durlna tbeee u ,_,. um til 

of 

act 

that 

of Jane 

IOl'L 

10, 1131, bu done ~ 

Ill'. aaTJI of Ob1o.. Mr. Cbatrmaa. 

wm the .-ueman Jteldt · Kr. KBPAUVD. I z1e14 to ~ IS· tJeman. . . . . . 

Kr. 8lllTB of Ohio. What would pnvem tbe lina7 or KaVJ' from pmt1p1 -. 

of tta eontn.Cta In codet Mr~ JmPAOVER. I IDmt ecmf- I am 

not enonsb of an mrpen· an oode • how 

the 'ArlQ'ud 1'•VJ handlM lU maUera to.,.. 

· Mr. StJllNBR8 of Taal. 11&1 I SUI• 

1eat to mJ friend tba' coanrtO!l leJlle 

would prenm ti probably. 

·Mr. lmPAaV'Bh. I would think IO. 

Mr. RALB. Mr. Cbalrman. wm the · ientieman yield? 

· 11r. Kl:PAUVER. I Jleld. 

Kr. RAT.Ji: Would the 1ent1eman enlilhten.-me u to the meantn1 of MCtloD 

:I? could he cit.e an esample or a cue 

to w~h section 2 would be applicable? 

I Just do not understand wbat it means. 

The CHAIRMAN. 'lbe time of the 

gentleman from Tennessee baa esplred. 
REF ID:A39898 

• 

10212 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 

~Ir. SUMNERS of Texas. ~ir. Chairman, I yield four additional minutes to 

the gentleman from Tennessee. 

Mr. KEFAUVER. I will say to the 

ge.ntleman I was not on the subcommittee which worked on the bill, but I suppose if someone who is employed or 

working on the code system of a foreign 

government gave out information concerning the nature of the preparation 

of the code or the crytographic system 

as provided in section 2, or the apparatus or transmitter or any information · which he received as a result of working 

with the code. he would be subject to this 

section. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Mr. Chairman, will 

the gentleman yield? 

Mr. KEFAUVER. I yield. 

Mr. SPRINGER. Is it not a fact that 

section 2 relates to those who are employed by or perform services for foreign 

governments, while section 1 relates to 

those who are employed by and perform services for the United States of 

America? 

Mr. KEFAUVER. Yes: that is correct. 

Mr. HALE. I think I understand that. 

My point is that, of course, we would not 

have any jurisdiction to punish anybody 

who is not within the jurisdiction of the 

United States. it would not do any good 

for us to legislate with reference to a 

person in the employ of a f orelgn government unless we could have some Jurisdiction over hlm. This simply relates to 

citizens of the United States. I do not 

scP- why section 2 is necessary if it relates 

to aliens. I would not expect an alien 

would be able to divulge the code of the 

United States, or that if he did we could 

catch him. 

Mr. KEFAUVER. I assume, Ill answer 

to the question of the gentleman, that 

we have a lot of citizens who are working 

with foreign nations in Washington, in 

their decoding section. 

Mr. HANCOCK. Mr. Chairman, will 

the gentleman yield? 

Mr. KEFAUVER. I yield. 

Mr. HANCOCK. We also have many 

Americans who are serving in foreign 

armies. 

Mr. KEFAUVER. That is correct. 

I do not see anything to be terribly 

concerned about in connection with this 

legislation, but I do think lt ts most important that the country understand it 

and that the Congress understand it. It 

is most important that we get something 

passed very quickly. In view of the fact 

that some Members seem to have many 

doubts about the matter, and that we 

have not had hearings, it seems to me it 

might be wise to give us a few days and 

have hearings on this legislation and 

then bring it back and submit lt to the 

Congress again when the committee can 

have mote unanimity. I think it would 

be disastrous if this measure were defeated, because we cannot allow all of 

these employees, who in the conftdence 

of the United States Government or the 

armed services received this information, 

to go out and endanger the lives of our 

people and our relations with f orelgn 

countries. · Mr. HINSHAW. Mr. Chairman, will 

the gentleman yield? 

Mr. KEFAUVER. I yield. 

Mr. HINSHAW. In reading the bill, it 

seems to me, of course, we must protect 

our method of handling the codes, but , does not the gentleman think it is rather 

naive to think if a man wanted to disclose some knowledge he had to some 

foreign government that he could not 

do it, without regard to the law? All he 

has to do is to go to Mexico and stay : 

there, or to some other foreign country.~ 

Mr. ~FAUVER. Well, of course, we l 

cannot prevent that. All we can do is 

to take care of the situation the best we · 

can. Something has to be done to pro-1 

tect the code we have and the apparatus 

we have spent· so much money on, and . the lives of our soldiers all over the coun- · try. It is difflcult to believe many people would be willful traitors to their 

country. 

Mr. HINSHAW. But a malicious person could do it anyway. 

Mr. KEFAUVER. Well, we can only 

do the best we can. 

In view of the confusion about the matter, I hope the chairman will agree to 

let the bill go back to the committee and 

let us have a hearing and have the 

hearings printed and bring it back for 

further consideration. 

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the 

gentleman from Tennessee lMr. KEFAtr- 1 

VER l has expired. 

Mr. SUMNERS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee do now 

rise. · 

The motion was agreed to. 

Accordingly the Committee rose: and 

the Speaker having resumed the chair, 

Mr. FoRAND, Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on the State of 

the Union, reported that that Committee, 

having had under consideration the bill 

<S. 805) to insure further the military 

security of the United States by preventing disclosures of information secured 

through omcial sources, had come to no 

resolution thereon. / 

EXTENSION OP REMARKS v 

Mr. HANCOCK asked and was given 

permission t9 extend the remarks he 

made in Committee of the Whole. 

Mr. MURPHY asked and was given 

permisSion to revise and extend his remarks made in the Committee of the 

Whole today. 

Mr. RANDOLPH asked and was given 

perpilssion to extend his remarks in the 

RECORD and include _an editorial. 

Mr. ROWAN asked and was given permission to extend his remarks and include a. letter from the University of 

Chicago. 1 

Mr. HINSHAW asked and was given 

permission to revise and extend the remarks he made today in the Committee 

of the Whole. 

OCTOBER 25