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REF ID:A58785 

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GOVERliMElft COlllltJ]IIOATIOIS HEADQUAft'l'IRS 

OC/J.'jl/51 

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!OP SISY! 

- U. S. L1&1aon Oftioe 

19 June 1951 . • .. 

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PL 86-36/50 USC 3605 

JIBll<mill>lDl FOR TH! DIRECTOR, AFSA 

Subjects French Modit1eat1on of the M2091\ Converter 

R-eferencea1 (a) UC o82024Z June 1951 

(b} USLO Memorandum OC/149/51, 

• 18 Jl.m.e 1951 

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(d) USLO Kemorandum GC/1J3/51, 25 May 1951 

All 

TOP SECRET 

1. Herein 1a submitted a deta1lec1 account of my meet~ with French cryptographic personnel in Paris on 

14 aal. 15 June 1951 tor the fu~oae or obta1n1Dg 1nt'ornat1Glf. requeated 1n reference a) and rorward.e4 in reference 

(b). The report may be SUJ11D11.ri1•d aa f'ollovaa 

a.. The patent intormat1on vaa furnished readi.ly, 

except that the patent apeoifioationa and drawings were 

releaaed. only after prolon1ed hea1tat1on1 

b. Monsieur Joaeph Auguste Ra:t'talli is identified 

as an engineer clo1el7 connected v1th the development of 

French cipher equi:pinentJ - c;. lt appears that the United Statea c&t'l obtain 

the licenae under the patents for a nominal amount; 

41. 'l'he French probably will complete the manufacture ot the number ot modit'ied ~r1n.tvheela required bJ 

th .. b7 the end of 19511 and it was indicated that the~ 

migh\ aco•pt orders tor as ma.n.7 as 50,000 units per year thereaf\erJ 

e. Con.t1naat1.on is lent to the asaoo1at1on or 

Ccnmnand&nt Arnau4 with French commun1cat1on intelligence by the fact that he has translated foreign book• on 

oryptanal7si•J 

t. Colonel LaCrou is anxious to receive any news 

or the U.S. decision with respect to the ~od1f1ed M209B. 

• 

Declassified and approved for release by NSA on 07-11-2014 pursuant to E .0. 1352a 

0COP SEGRE) 
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• REF IO: A58 7 85 A EQ 3_3(h)(2) 

0COP SEGRE) •• PL 86--36/50 USC 3605 

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2. Hot havillg been able to make an advance appoint•nt, I oalled at the office ot Colonel Veyrou LaCroi.X, 51 Boulevant de I&tour-kubours, Paris (ITAT-JIAJOR COllBDm DBS FORCES 

ARUKB) about ten o'clock morniD.g of 14 June and luekil7 

fo'U12d hill there. Because h1a Kngl1sh 1& about on a par with 

ranch I reaented to him an unclassJ£1e4 memorand'\llll ..._,_ _____ _......,,..........------------1 trOll 117 dratt based 

on reference- a • vbioh explained. what was vanted • He 

1Ja1Ml41.ately telephoned Co.mmandan~ Arnaud at ll1n.1ster• de la 

Guerre, 231 Boulevard S&1nt-Ger-.1n, and provided transportation for me to Ar~u4 a office. 

3. Commandant Arnaud's English 1s rudimentar7, but va.a 

sufficient tor our bua:Ulese to be earried. on without an 

interpreter. Be said he 1las glad to see JU aga1Jl, and I 

presented to him ti. writtau request •ntio.nad in the pre- eed.ing _par&fraph. His fir·st question was "Who b.aa translated thi•t (I) Gd I :replied that one ot our oft1o•ra 1.Q 

Lc..ndon had clone his best. The &ugli.•h am French veraiQna 

ot thi.11 •mo.randum. are rorvard .. •• beloau.re (a). 

4 • It bee&• apparent at onoe that Al"ll&ud vaa doubtful abou~ the propriety or furnishing a copy ot the patent docUMnta. He sa14 he d1d not have ua.7 of the 1ntorm.t1on 

in his orr1ce, but prom1oed to do what he oould to obtain 

it. 'He aa1d he would ••• th• -.n to whoa the patent• were 

1ssued (RAl'PALLI) and aaked me to call aa•in at 1730. . AlthoU&h reference (a) did. not request the 1nt'ormat1on, 

I ask .. Arnaud also to giY• ms aome 14•• ot the probable 

ooat or a license under the patanta .. 1! •• ahould want 1t. 

5. I returned at Arnaud'& office at the ap:point•d time" 

where he gave me th& pt.per enclosed herewith •• ( b) • He 

bacl no' brought the pe:tent documents,. u.d explained that 

sinoe the patent h'4 ilaplicationa &ftectina 1;he national 

securit7 it was "AIOURD", 1.e .,, 4epoa1te4 to be Y1t.hhel4 

from publication tor f1Y• year•. I preaaed him to o'bta1n 

th• documents for us &D4 he in•i•t•d it was impoaaible und.er the law. He said .f'ur•her that he felt we had beea 

giYen all the dett.11• that ahoul4 be n•ded in order to 

reach a decision. I then asked hi• perm1sa1on to appeal 

the matter ot the patent papers to Colonel L&Croi.Z,, or 

an7one else vho coul4 authorise their ~lease,, vh.ereupon 

he offered_ to go •1th me to sea Colonel L&CroiX. 

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5. Ve called on the colonel immd1a•el7. A third 

Prench oft1c•r (I think an armr oapta1l\) acted aa in.Mrpreter. ColCAel LaCrolx agreed. with .A.l'Mu4 that the7 eou14 not 

possibly release the l'&P•r•. fhe .. vaa much diacu••ion 

11'1 :tdah-•pe•d. Pren.ch. While 4eb&t1ng the queation. with 

'J.rnaui in hi• office, I had asked h1a ( .. rel7 aa an a.rgumnt) 

it h• ~•lu 'he Prenoh goYernmeat woul• withhold the patent 4eta11• or th1a ••Y1oe rrOll eYen Otm.eral Biaenhover, t.ln4 

wa• somewhat e--.rtled later to hear th• General's naae 

-.ntioned by Arnaud to L&CroiX. Colonel LaCrou was 411-

appoiil.ted that I had eome tor ao:t•e intorll&t!on and had 

brought none; he asked Yert.pointedl'J about our evaluatlon 

ot the machine's secur1t7 and whether we had any aounterro oaa.ls to make. He then wanted. to know when "tho e~pert, 

....._ _________ ..;;;.v-=ou-==::;l4 r.e\arn. I replied I bad no 1Df"ormat1on 11.1.:tout or what he haCL 4o.ae subsequent to our 

~63~(11)(;) l:!f~~v! !e1i ~~Mi .. :m:h;t: :·:.:: : .. :·v:u:Croa -1 

Pt 86-36/50 USCff:elltuallJ get it delivered. He ilmled!a.tely scribbled off 

a note and passed 1t out to be tJPtMl - or va1oh matter more 

Will be aaid later. I told Coloml La.Croix that I had. no 

con:neeticm. with th• seourity stud7 but was onl7 th• .. asenger who brought the queatlona and would take back his an•era 

with. of course, any 'lord. ·he might van.t to aend. 'fhere vae a 

11ttle mo~e conversation on the subJeat or experts azKl I 

t1.nally told Colonel LaCroiX that I doubted very much that 

our 11eXperts 11 , whoever they vere, ever 1fould discuas details 

ot the sub Jee t vi th the French upe~'t• • At no point did 

this conversation became other than "o to ra h1c in naturen. 

I v-.a, extremel7 e>aretul to aa7 nothing 

6. We then returned to the aubJeot or the patent documents. Arter further talk, they said that p•rbaps the 

-.n to whom th• patente had been issued (Monsieur Rafta.111} 

would be ill position to release th•m to u. and offered to 

elloY me to talk vith b1m 1n the presence ot Colonel LaCroiX. 

I r•pl1•4 that I would have to obtain permission betor• 

41ecuas1:ng this -sub3ect v1th this thircJ. part7 &n.d Yould 

l•t \hem know. 

7. On thinkiD& it out,, there 1eemad to be no reason 

tfl17 I should not talk v1th Raftalli. On Frida7 morning, 15 JG&, I asked Colonel LaOroiX to arrange the meeting, W'hioh be set for 1700,, in hia of"f'ice. There were preeent 

Oo-lQllel. Le.C:::•ou, Co••ndant Arnaud, Monsieur Ra.:r:te.111, the _ 1Aterpreter mentioned ill paragraph 5, an u.nidentif"i•d suboi'inat• of Colon•l Lacroix who remained at his dealc 1.n 

the colonel's oft1oe but took no part 1n the d1ac~sa1on. 

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WOP SECRElJ 
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0COP SECRElJ • 

ead myself. llonaieur Raftall1,, who•• addreaa 11 given ill 

reterence (b), obYio111l7 oooup1ed a position of olose oollaborat1oa with L&Crou and. Arnaud, so that an7 doubts I had 

about talking with h1111 were 1mmed.iatel7 disperaed. Rattalli 

is about 50, bald with fringe, greT mustache, short, atookJ' 

llld Yell-fed, affable an4 aelt~aasured, and wore a Legion of 

Honour rosette 1n his lapel. He speak• an adequate amount 

ot Bng11sh f'or conversation. I said that ve needed the patent 4•ta1l• 1n order to make a thorough investigation or pertinent t.T.S. patents,, because 1f' our use of the invention infringed 

ao• u.s. patent we might become involved in an expensive lawsuit. Monsieur Ratfe.111 was immediately SJDJP&thetic to 

this approach (which vas only a aurmiss) and produced from 

hia brietease a cop7 of the patent papers for exam1nation. 

P1nally, arter much discussion; Rat~alli said he thought he 

oould g1~e me a cop7 or the patent papers; Le.Cro:U: and Arnaud 

surrendered. '?hey then said this vas the onl1 o opy and that 

they would have a COPJ' made tor ua, vhich wou14 require two 

days. I urged them to lend me the papers overnight. say~ 

that I vould cop7 them m7eelf and return them the tolloving morn1ng. Raf't'alli then telephoned soaeone, I think the patent attorne7, &n.d 1n about fifteen m111utes a measenger arr1Yed 

Yi'th anoth•r cop7 which Raf'fall~ g&Y• me, declinjng 1117 ofter 

ot a:ci ottic1al receipt. This vas the p&tant document forwarded vi th ref'erenee (b). . 8. Mons1eur Raf'fa.111 pointed out the.t he had drawn the pa~ent papers carefully, appl7ing the id.ea to pr1llt1ng devices 1n general, such as communication equipment, numbering 

•tamps, etc. Without an7 mention or 01ph•r :ma.chill••· I 

gathered he has been in this business a long time, as he 

spoke of " ••• twenty 7ears ago ••• " I am alta.o&t oertain he 

identitied himself' on the telephone aa "Colonel P.af1'alli". 

It va1 said that he "owns the machine toole", which I took 

to mean the machine shop of the French licensee (M. Rene 

lrea1eq de Ob&un7), 1th1ch is a small eatabl1shment. Rai'falli 

said he bad shown the device to "the people who make our, teletJ'P9 equipment" who aaid theJ could •nuta.cture 1tJ this and 

his remarks about the small capaoi tr of the licensee fiz•m. 

1apl7 that it there 1• a large 4ell&D.d a subcontract Will be 

let. It seemed best not to ask too many questions about 

Raffalli and bis maeh1ne shop. 

9. It vaa stated that the 'United SU.tee aipt ob,ain 

a 11cenae under the patents for a nominal •mount. Mon.a1eur 

Rattall1 volunteered the statement that after December (by which time French naede will have been applied) they would ~· able to manufacture$ 1n a year, 50,000 wheels each vith 

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tvo complete outfits ot t7pe. I told him I vould like to - know, as 1ne1dental 1nt'ormat1on since I had not been 1na'bructed to ditscuss that phase of the matter,, whether he 

Yould be interested 1n·filling RJl order !~om the United 

Stat.ea and if so what the pr1c• would be. They could fill 

an order, he said; and the price mentiOlled in rererence (o)-. 8,ooo francs or about $23.00 per.machine - includes cutting oft and elotti.na the orig.1.tlal M209B eo~~onent aa described 

in paragraph 3.a and .b of reference (d). He went on to say. "This 1s the cost novJ" &nd. that as 1t depends upon labor 

and mate1..,1a.1 costs., _"Who ci.n say what it will be next rear?" 

10. While we were waiting for the messenger to bring the additional cop7 of the patent paper•, the group discussed 

in Prench other items of their bua1nes11. There was a general chuckle and the interpreter sa1c to me_, "It has been sug- gestad that perhaps f.OU vould tell us hov a U.S. Arm.7 a1gnal 

center• is organized. ' I replied that in the fi 1 st place I 

va.s in the Navy (I was in uniform) and knew little or the A~m~, that my only knovledse or these subJoots dealt Vith 

pur•lf mechanical details of the insides of cipher machines 

and th&t even if I was familiar with Arm7 signal centers I 

probably could not answer the question. 

11. , At the end o.t' the d.1scussion I thanked them f'or· the 

eooper&tion and help, and e.aked Col~l :Croix i'or the 

~=~~=~dlt~~uu~~ u:::1;!~ts~:~~::lr1. \J .:~d ~f ~a~9 r:erning to 'Washington. After all 'the t&lki.ng I had done about 

good faith 1n order to obtain the patent papero, it seemed 

inadvisable to allo'i his misconceptiOll that I ll8d come from 

Waah1Dgi..on to pe:::·sist_, so I replied that I was going to 

London and expected to be in the naval Attache 's office there fol~ about three months, but that the 1nfo:rmat1on they had 

given me would be despatched to Washington imnediately. Colonel IAOrois asked whether I vould return to Pa~is or, 

if not, tr.irough what clu4"'1.D.cl he vould £ece1ve the U.S. decision •bout the machine, which he is an.xious to les.rn at 

the earliest moment. I a.nswer·ed t.ha.t I supposed he would 

learn of it through the se111e channel that arranged rq 

original appointment with him and that I probabl~ would not 

return unle3a more information vae needed. My impressions of· L&Cr·oixJ Raff'alli, and Arnaud a.re tintirely' :ravorable. I 

believe they are sincere in their de~lings with us. I then 

left_, and returned to London by air the f'olloving da1, 17 J'Ulle. 

12u.mml I report (reference ( c) in Pa.rt II J 

paragraphs 11 a.nd lf) descr·lbes Commandant Arnnud' s plsns 

for a.n electric, keyboaz·d model of the Fl&.gelin using M209B 

parts. Arnaud to!d u~ ~e expects tc use the che.nseebl~ 

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PL 86-36/50 USC 3605 

egun to wo er • oou b• •o• •• ... h 

e • or »ria,-Wheel ••tuence would requl1'9 • eor?'91~ 

ch&rlge in th• lc•Jboar4. I took uvu'ac• or iih• oppor\l.ID1'7 af torded 1.17 •••!Dc J.rn&Kd &ga1D to ••Jr: Whether he did in.ten& 

to u•• the a.• wheel OJl a latiboa1" u.eh1ne. H• repli .. attil"ll&tiYel1. I ••IPtd abott' the k•tltoart. ••ta11. Be aait 

there would be a au1'Mbl• •ehaniea, and that •h• prepoa .. uehin• diafftl only on :paper. I• vaa obt1oua \ha' he 1• 

not a "aeoh&n1o", and I tlo not beli•Y• the d1t1'1eult7 alto•._ 

the ket~oard had oecurret to him. It Will be a nice tri•k 

it he can do it. 

13. Kore 1nfoI'll&t1on turned up about Collllt&ll.d&nt Ara&ut. 

I aav 1n tlle Window ot • Paria boek store a book which P•l"l'ia 

aa4 I had noted 1n Arnaud' s bookcaea, "Kanuel •• Crn>togr&Jhi•" . b7 General L. S&ooo. It is a. 1951 French tranalation ot the 

third edit~on ot the Italian origiDal and contains a creat 

deal ot material not previoualyl lmThiamubook~ 

tor vhieh I would like to be p&14 1200 franca or $3.40 1t 

Ai'SA van.ti ~o keep 1t for the librar7, 1s torwart•d ae ~oloaliil'9 (o). It will be noted near ~he ~ottoa ot page 6 

tb&\ an aekao1rledgaent is made to Comaat.lant Arn.awl., 

"Kb.tlll., 11 taut aaToir gr• •u Commandant z. Aru.ud 

d'aYo1r bie.n youlu se charger de reYoir &Yee le 

plus graa« ao1n la traducticm e\ lea epreu•••·" 

Ke 1• also -.A'1oaet 1l'l th• b1bl1ogr&phJ" on page 370 aa tla* 

translator or Item 21• B, "H1atoire de la 0rJPtograph1e" b7 

J'l•-•h•r 1ra~t. I belieYe th:11 ia the book publ11hed 1n 

the Vnited s•atea unCer the title "Secret and Vrgent". 

14. J'iaall7, to ake the record Gomplete, &oM Parle 

t•l•phan• n.taitlers are: 

Ooleul V•:rron LaCro!a - IIV&lU•• 8500., Eat. 529 

.Ce 2 !lath' Arnaud - IJ1Val1'es 6870, kt. 33J3 

3 Jaelot111"9a (1 eop7 ea.oh) G. CHILSS 

(a) Oclr Chiles• •11oran4ua :Pl'Hea~M 'to rrench_, ill 

Prench • English versions 

(b) I.nf'e!'Mtion tul'lli•het u 

NlpOUe 'o (a) ( c) ''llanuel 4e Crntogr&ph1e" b7 

Oen. suoo, 3d M1t1on (lPrenoh translation 1951) 

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