From: Mahesh P. Sampat [mailto:maheshsampat@bellsouth.net] 

Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:24 PM 

To: Richard Parker; Kenneth Winder; Bruce RHirsch 

Cc: phopkinson@hvolt.com; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com; adelaski@standardsasap.org; 

ahofmann@publicpower.org; Aris Marantan; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; august.esch@gmail.com; 

BermanEconomics@gmail.com; Brian Coffey; bsmith@federalpacific.com; Chris Boulduc; Caitlin Johnson; 

carlos.gaytan@ge.com; carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; 

charlied@uus.org; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; clark.silcox@nema.org; cstephens@neea.org; 

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; dave.millure@metglas.com; DYoung@energy-solution.com; 

eduardorobles@eaton.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; gbf1@pge.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; 

greg.coulter405@gmail.com; James.Lass@cleco.com; Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov; 

Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov; jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; 

jhodge@howard-ind.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov; jmauer@standardsasap.org; 

john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; jrossetti@mlgw.org; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; 

mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com; Matthew Nardotti; maxinesavitz@aol.com; mhyland@appanet.org; 

Michael Rivest; mwaltner@nrdc.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; phil@pjharter.com; 

pkumar@publicpower.org; Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com; 

richardparkerdc@gmail.com; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; robert.saint@nreca.coop; 

robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov; rroy@nrdc.org; ScottB@lvmetals.com; snadel@aceee.org; 

srosenstock@eei.org; tballo@earthjustice.org; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; thomas.patzner@us.schneiderelectric.com; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; Zhimei Luo; Ken Winder 

Subject: RE: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole 

Hello Bruce: 

 

 Thank you for your explanation... Sorry for little delay in response, I was traveling. 

 

 I can certainly understand issues dealing with changing transformers where access is limited 

such as "back lot" services... hopefully these situations are limited to "older" systems and 

perhaps are smaller part of your entire system. 

 

 Now coming to Pole change-out issue... As I understand, there are two major considerations 

that could lead to pole change-out... 

 

1. Height: If the height of the transformer increases then that could lead to changing to 

"Taller" poles if the additional height creates encroachment issue... 

2. Weight: If combined load imposed by "all" users exceeds pole strength. 

 

 As for 1st issue, as transformer's efficiency increases, generally unit's "foot print" increases 

(tank diameter may increase) and height decreases... The reason for this is that due to higher 

efficiency (lower Losses) "less cooling" surface is needed... 

 

 As for 2nd issue, higher efficiency does results in higher weight due to additional materials... 

but as Wes's analysis has shown that this increase in weight can be "minimized" if the 

manufacturer is willing to change the core material... per his analysis, weight increase can be 
limited to less than 15% for 30% reduction in losses... Hopefully, in most cases you will have 

that much margin... 

 

 Hope this "Transformer Designer's" perspective is helpful... 

 

 Thank you. 

 

Best Regards, 

 

Mahesh Sampat 

EMS Consulting 

706-549-8155 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 10/24/11, Hirsch, Bruce R <Bruce.R.Hirsch@bge.com> wrote: 

From: Hirsch, Bruce R <Bruce.R.Hirsch@bge.com> 

Subject: RE: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole 

To: "'Mahesh P. Sampat'" <maheshsampat@bellsouth.net>, "Richard Parker" 

<richardparkerdc@gmail.com>, "Kenneth Winder" <kwinder@mleainc.com> 

Cc: "phopkinson@hvolt.com" <phopkinson@hvolt.com>, 

"Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com" <Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com>, 

"adelaski@standardsasap.org" <adelaski@standardsasap.org>, "ahofmann@publicpower.org" 

<ahofmann@publicpower.org>, "amarantan@navigant.com" <amarantan@navigant.com>, 

"artrosenfeld@gmail.com" <artrosenfeld@gmail.com>, "august.esch@gmail.com" 

<august.esch@gmail.com>, "BermanEconomics@gmail.com" 

<BermanEconomics@gmail.com>, "brian.coffey@navigant.com" 

<brian.coffey@navigant.com>, "bsmith@federalpacific.com" <bsmith@federalpacific.com>, 

"Chris Boulduc" <cabolduc@lbl.gov>, "Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com" 

<Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com>, "carlos.gaytan@ge.com" <carlos.gaytan@ge.com>, 

"carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com" <carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com>, "chad.kennedy@us.schneiderelectric.com" <chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com>, "charlied@uus.org" 

<charlied@uus.org>, "chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com" <chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com>, 

"clark.silcox@nema.org" <clark.silcox@nema.org>, "cstephens@neea.org" 

<cstephens@neea.org>, "Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov" <Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov>, 

"dave.millure@metglas.com" <dave.millure@metglas.com>, "DYoung@energy-solution.com" 

<DYoung@energy-solution.com>, "eduardorobles@eaton.com" <eduardorobles@eaton.com>, 

"Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com" <Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com>, "gbf1@pge.com" 

<gbf1@pge.com>, "gjrosenquist@lbl.gov" <gjrosenquist@lbl.gov>, 

"greg.coulter405@gmail.com" <greg.coulter405@gmail.com>, "James.Lass@cleco.com" 

<James.Lass@cleco.com>, "Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov" 

<Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov>, "Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov" 

<Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov>, "jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com" 
<jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com>, "jerry.schoen@aksteel.com" 

<jerry.schoen@aksteel.com>, "jhodge@howard-ind.com" <jhodge@howard-ind.com>, 

"Jim.creevy@nema.org" <Jim.creevy@nema.org>, "Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov" 

<Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov>, "jmauer@standardsasap.org" <jmauer@standardsasap.org>, 

"john.caskey@nema.org" <john.caskey@nema.org>, "john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov" 

<john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov>, "jrossetti@mlgw.org" <jrossetti@mlgw.org>, 

"kcoughlin@lbl.gov" <kcoughlin@lbl.gov>, "mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com" 

<mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com>, "matthew.nardotti@navigant.com" 

<matthew.nardotti@navigant.com>, "maxinesavitz@aol.com" <maxinesavitz@aol.com>, 

"mhyland@appanet.org" <mhyland@appanet.org>, "mrivest@navigant.com" 

<mrivest@navigant.com>, "mwaltner@nrdc.org" <mwaltner@nrdc.org>, 

"Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com" <Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com>, "phil@pjharter.com" 

<phil@pjharter.com>, "pkumar@publicpower.org" <pkumar@publicpower.org>, 

"Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com" <Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com>, 

"rgreeson@federalpacific.com" <rgreeson@federalpacific.com>, "richardparkerdc@gmail.com" 

<richardparkerdc@gmail.com>, "rick.anderson@faypwc.com" <rick.anderson@faypwc.com>, 

"robert.saint@nreca.coop" <robert.saint@nreca.coop>, "robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov" 

<robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov>, "rroy@nrdc.org" <rroy@nrdc.org>, "ScottB@lvmetals.com" 

<ScottB@lvmetals.com>, "snadel@aceee.org" <snadel@aceee.org>, "srosenstock@eei.org" 

<srosenstock@eei.org>, "tballo@earthjustice.org" <tballo@earthjustice.org>, 

"Teckman@nwcouncil.org" <Teckman@nwcouncil.org>, "thomas.patzner@us.schneiderelectric.com" <thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com>, "vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com" 

<vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com>, "zhimei.luo@navigant.com" <zhimei.luo@navigant.com>, 

"Ken Winder" <kwinder@mleainc.com> 

Date: Monday, October 24, 2011, 10:20 AM 

Mahesh,

The answer to your question will probably be all over the map. In reality, utilities are governed 

by the pole loading standards as set forth in the NESC. WE build our system to meet wind or ice 

loading requirements. The area of the Country we are in determines how much loading we can 

put on a pole and still met the standards. Company practices including third part attachments 

and storm hardening requirements will also affect when a pole needs to be changed. Essentially 

anytime a change is made on the pole (either a change in equipment or an addition of 

equipment) the pole loading is checked to make sure it does not exceed the Code requirements. 

Thus, changing a transformer with a heavier transformer will trigger a review and possibly a pole 

change-out. 

Because we were purchasing transformers on a TOC basis (A/B factors), the 1-1-2010 DOE 

requirements had minimum effect on the size of our single ratio transformers. Our dual ration 

transformers (13kV/4kV primary), however, were greatly affected with respect to weight and 

size. The majority of cases where we need to replace a dual ratio transformer, require us to 

change the pole. The issue is compounded on “lot line” work where we cannot get a truck to the 

location. In these cases, men must manually pull the transformer up the pole to set it. This class 
of transformers is where we have started doing more refurbishment of used units to help resolve 

the replacement issues. 

We are also concerned of the increase in weight with respect to our truck capacities. Our 

Digger/Derricks which are used primarily for pole replacement but can also be used to lift a 

transformer are rated at 1,590 lbs. max. Our bucket trucks, which we buy equipped with a jib for 

lifting equipment, are our primary truck used for lifting transformers. They are rated from 660 lbs 

to 2,000 lbs. max depending on how far the jib is extended. As transformers get heavier, the 

ability to use of a truck to set transformers is lost thus driving up transformer replacement costs 

to “lot line” type levels as discussed in a previous email. 

Finally, I would like to restate my concern with transformer size. When we talk size problems 

most people think of the vault and network type transformers. While these are a concern, my 

main concern is the size of pole type transformers. We in Baltimore (and I assume most large 

cities throughout the US) constantly battle to maintain safety clearances from other utilities on 

our poles and also from public infringement on the safety separations set by Code. In a 

congested city like Baltimore, even minimal changes in the size of a transformer can lead to 

major work to ensure the safety clearances are maintained. I know the goals are to improve air 

quality, but the certain death from electrocution is an even more ominous affect that could result 

from the changes being proposed. 

 

 Bruce 

From: Mahesh P. Sampat [mailto:maheshsampat@bellsouth.net] 

Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:10 PM 

To: Richard Parker; Kenneth Winder 

Cc: phopkinson@hvolt.com; Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com; adelaski@standardsasap.org; 

ahofmann@publicpower.org; amarantan@navigant.com; artrosenfeld@gmail.com; 

august.esch@gmail.com; BermanEconomics@gmail.com; brian.coffey@navigant.com; Hirsch, Bruce R; 

bsmith@federalpacific.com; Chris Boulduc; Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; 

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; charlied@uus.org; 

chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; clark.silcox@nema.org; cstephens@neea.org; 

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; dave.millure@metglas.com; DYoung@energy-solution.com; 

eduardorobles@eaton.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; gbf1@pge.com; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; 

greg.coulter405@gmail.com; James.Lass@cleco.com; Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov; 

Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov; jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com; jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; 

jhodge@howard-ind.com; Jim.creevy@nema.org; Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov; jmauer@standardsasap.org; 

john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; jrossetti@mlgw.org; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; 

mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com; matthew.nardotti@navigant.com; maxinesavitz@aol.com; 

mhyland@appanet.org; mrivest@navigant.com; mwaltner@nrdc.org; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; 

phil@pjharter.com; pkumar@publicpower.org; Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; 

rgreeson@federalpacific.com; richardparkerdc@gmail.com; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; 

robert.saint@nreca.coop; robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov; rroy@nrdc.org; ScottB@lvmetals.com; 
snadel@aceee.org; srosenstock@eei.org; tballo@earthjustice.org; Teckman@nwcouncil.org; 

thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; zhimei.luo@navigant.com; 

Ken Winder 

Subject: Re: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole

 

Hello Ken: 

 

 Thank you for developing this info... It looks like DOE wasn't too far off in assuming cost of 

$2000/per pole change out... 

 

 The only other remaining question left that needs addressing is... 

 

 "When" does pole need to be changed? IE: What are "Engineering Rules/Limits" that 

result in pole change out...

 

 Once we know that, we/DOE can estimate change-out frequency... 

 

 Thank you. 

 

Best Regards, 

 

Mahesh 

 

--- On Wed, 10/19/11, Kenneth Winder <kwinder@mleainc.com> wrote: 

From: Kenneth Winder <kwinder@mleainc.com> 

Subject: Replacement Cost for Transformer Pole 

To: "Richard Parker" <richardparkerdc@gmail.com> 
Cc: phopkinson@hvolt.com, Aaron.Meyers@cooperindustries.com, 

adelaski@standardsasap.org, ahofmann@publicpower.org, amarantan@navigant.com, 

artrosenfeld@gmail.com, august.esch@gmail.com, BermanEconomics@gmail.com, 

brian.coffey@navigant.com, bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com, bsmith@federalpacific.com, 

cabolduc@lbl.gov, Caitlin.Johnson@navigant.com, carlos.gaytan@ge.com, 

carlosgsiqueiros@eaton.com, chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com, charlied@uus.org, 

chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com, clark.silcox@nema.org, cstephens@neea.org, 

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov, dave.millure@metglas.com, DYoung@energy-solution.com, 

eduardorobles@eaton.com, Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com, gbf1@pge.com, gjrosenquist@lbl.gov, 

greg.coulter405@gmail.com, James.Lass@cleco.com, Jennifer.Tiedeman@hq.doe.gov, 

Jeremiah.Freeman@ee.doe.gov, jerry.corkran@cooperindustries.com, 

jerry.schoen@aksteel.com, jhodge@howard-ind.com, Jim.creevy@nema.org, 

Jim.Raba@ee.doe.gov, jmauer@standardsasap.org, john.caskey@nema.org, 

john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov, jrossetti@mlgw.org, kcoughlin@lbl.gov, 

maheshsampat@bellsouth.net, mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com, 

matthew.nardotti@navigant.com, maxinesavitz@aol.com, mhyland@appanet.org, 

mrivest@navigant.com, mwaltner@nrdc.org, Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com, phil@pjharter.com, 

pkumar@publicpower.org, Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com, rgreeson@federalpacific.com, 

richardparkerdc@gmail.com, rick.anderson@faypwc.com, robert.saint@nreca.coop, 

robert.vanbuskirk@ee.doe.gov, rroy@nrdc.org, ScottB@lvmetals.com, snadel@aceee.org, 

srosenstock@eei.org, tballo@earthjustice.org, Teckman@nwcouncil.org, 

thomas.patzner@us.schneider-electric.com, vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com, 

zhimei.luo@navigant.com, "Chris Boulduc" <cabolduc@lbl.gov>, "Ken Winder" 

<kwinder@mleainc.com> 

Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 8:36 PM 

Richard and Committee: 

 Attached is a spreadsheet showing the cost to replace an existing pole in a three-phase 

distribution circuit with an existing single-phase distribution transformer mounted on it. This 

information was developed to estimate the cost to replace an existing pole with a new, higher 

strength pole required because of the increased weight of the distribution transformer. This 

estimate represents the cost to do this for my Cooperative. 

 Other Utilities will be furnishing this information for their systems. 

Kenneth A. Winder, PE 

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