### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 1**  **U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY + + + + +**  **ENERGY CONSERVATION PROGRAM FOR CONSUMER PRODUCTS: TEST PROCEDURES FOR REFRIGERATORS,**  **REFRIGERATOR-FREEZERS, AND FREEZERS + + + + +**  **PUBLIC MEETING + + + + +**  **THURSDAY JULY 25, 2013** 

**+ + + + + The Public Meeting convened in**  **the Forrestal Building, Room 8E-089, 1000 Independence Avenue, SW, Washington, DC, at**  **9:00 a.m., Doug Brookman, Facilitator, presiding.**  **PRESENT: DOUG BROOKMAN, Facilitator, Public Solutions,**  **Inc. LUCAS ADIN, Department of Energy**  **MICHAEL KIDO, Department of Energy ANDREW JEAN-LOUIS, Navigant Consulting**  **DETLEF WESTPHALEN, Navigant Consulting EMILY MARCHETTI, Energetics** 

**ALSO PRESENT:**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 2**  **JENNIFER AMANN, American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE)**  **BILL BROWN, G.E. Appliances ANDREW KRAUSE, G.E. Appliances**  **STEVE LEYBOURN, Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM)**  **ROBERT McARVER, Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM)**  **NATHAN MOUW, Whirlpool Corporation AMANDA STEVENS, U.S. EPA, EnergyStar**  **SCOTT YOUNG, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory** 

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 3**  **A G E N D A**

**Welcome................................ 4 Opening Remarks, Introductions and**  **Agenda Review........................ 4 Introduction and Background............ 10**  **Regulatory History and Products Covered by the Test Procedure**  **Changes.............................. 21 Test Procedure Amendments: Icemaking... 24** 

**Test Procedure Amendments.............. 73**

**Other Issues Under Consideration....... 112 Compliance With Other EPCA**  **Requirements......................... 144 Conclusions and Closing Remarks........ 153** 

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 4**  **1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S**  

### 2 **9:23 a.m.** 

### 3 **Welcome** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: Good morning,** 

### 5 **everyone. Welcome. This is the U.S.** 

### 6 **Department of Energy's public meeting on** 

### 7 **Energy Conservation Program for Consumer** 

### 8 **Products, specifically test procedures for** 

### 9 **refrigerators, refrigerators-freezers and** 

### 10 **freezers.** 

### 11 **Today is Thursday, July 25th,** 

### 12 **2013 here in the Forrestal Building in** 

### 13 **Washington, D.C. My name is Doug Brookman** 

### 14 **from Public Solutions in Baltimore. Nice to** 

### 15 **see you here. We're going to start with** 

### 16 **welcoming remarks from Lucas Adin.** 

### 17 **Opening Remarks, Intros and Agenda Review** 

### 18 **MR. ADIN: Hello everyone. I'm** 

### 19 **Lucas Adin. I'm with Department of Energy's** 

### 20 **Appliance Equipment Standards Program, and** 

### 21 **I'm the product manager for Essential** 

### 22 **Refrigeration Products, and I just want to**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 5**  **1 welcome you all here today. We very much**  

### 2 **appreciate your participation and we expect** 

### 3 **we'll have a pretty good discussion today.** 

### 4 **Hopefully, we can provide some clarification** 

### 5 **on all the proposals that we've made in this** 

### 6 **notice, and to the extent you have questions** 

### 7 **about the proposal or specific comments on** 

### 8 **any of these items, we strongly encourage you** 

### 9 **to bring those up today.** 

### 10 **Hopefully you leave today with a** 

### 11 **better understanding of what we've proposed,** 

### 12 **and that we'll get some good written** 

### 13 **comments. Thanks to all the folks** 

### 14 **participating in the webinar as well. We** 

### 15 **certainly appreciate all the participation we** 

### 16 **can get.** 

### 17 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 18 **MR. ADIN: So we'll move on from** 

### 19 **there. Thank you.** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. So we** 

### 21 **typically start with introductions, and you** 

### 22 **can get used to turning these microphones on**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 6**  **1 and off. Please say your name and**  

### 2 **organizational affiliation, and we'll go** 

### 3 **around the room.** 

### 4 **MR. MOUW: Nathan Mouw from** 

### 5 **Whirlpool Corporation.** 

### 6 **MR. BROWN: Bill Brown, GE** 

### 7 **Appliances.** 

### 8 **MR. KRAUSE: Andrew Krause, GE** 

### 9 **Appliances.** 

### 10 **MR. McARVER: Rob McArver with** 

### 11 **the Association of Home Appliance** 

### 12 **Manufacturers.** 

### 13 **MR. LEYBOURN: Steve Leybourn,** 

### 14 **also from the Association of Home Appliance** 

### 15 **Manufacturers.** 

### 16 **MS. STEVENS: Amanda Stevens,** 

### 17 **EnergyStar.** 

### 18 **MS. AMANN: Jennifer Amann,** 

### 19 **American Council for an Energy Efficient** 

### 20 **Economy.** 

### 21 **MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE** 

### 22 **Office of the General Counsel.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 7**  **1 MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Please stand up.** 

### 3 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Detlef** 

### 4 **Westphalen, Navigant Consulting.** 

### 5 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Andrew Jean** 

### 6 **Louis, Navigant Consulting.** 

### 7 **MR. YOUNG: Steve Young, Lawrence** 

### 8 **Berkeley National Laboratory.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Again, thanks to** 

### 10 **all of you for being here. Our apologies for** 

### 11 **starting a few minutes late. All of you** 

### 12 **received a packet of information when you** 

### 13 **came in this morning and registered.** 

### 14 **I'm going to do a very brief** 

### 15 **agenda review immediately following these --** 

### 16 **this agenda review, and a very brief bit of** 

### 17 **content on the regulatory overview. There is** 

### 18 **an opportunity for anyone that wishes to do** 

### 19 **so to make brief summary comments here at the** 

### 20 **outset, issues that matter to you, issues you** 

### 21 **wish to bring to the fore.** 

### 22 **From there, we'll launch straight**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 8**  **1 into the content that's in this colorful**  

### 2 **PowerPoint packet presentation. We will hear** 

### 3 **regulatory history and products covered by** 

### 4 **the test procedure changes. From there, Test** 

### 5 **Procedure Amendments in Icemaking.** 

### 6 **We'll take a break mid-morning,** 

### 7 **around about 10:30 or so. Following that,** 

### 8 **Test Procedure Amendments Icemaking** 

### 9 **continued, and then continuing on from there,** 

### 10 **Test Procedure Amendments, continued. We'll** 

### 11 **take a break for lunch around about 12:30 or** 

### 12 **so, and then the Test Procedure Amendments** 

### 13 **discussion and content continue from there.** 

### 14 **So the agenda, we anticipate that** 

### 15 **probably, as listed in the agenda, we're** 

### 16 **going to finish today around about three** 

### 17 **o'clock or so, maybe a little bit earlier,** 

### 18 **we'll see how it turns out. Our job is to be** 

### 19 **as efficient and effective, and not diminish** 

### 20 **your ability to comment on things that are** 

### 21 **important to you.** 

### 22 **I would ask for your**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 9**  **1 consideration. Many of you are familiar with**  

### 2 **the meeting format here. If you would speak** 

### 3 **one at a time, please get used to turning** 

### 4 **this microphone on and off please.** 

### 5 **Say your name for the record.** 

### 6 **Each time you speak be concise, share the air** 

### 7 **time. If you can keep the focus here, turn** 

### 8 **your cell phones on silent mode. Limit** 

### 9 **sidebar conversations.** 

### 10 **For the web participants, we are** 

### 11 **very happy to have you join us. The** 

### 12 **Department of Energy is trying hard to make** 

### 13 **these meetings accessible to everyone.** 

### 14 **If you could keep your telephone** 

### 15 **on mute and you can raise your hand if you** 

### 16 **wish to comment, wish to speak. We ought to** 

### 17 **be able to hear you here in the room. How** 

### 18 **many, Emily, do we have joining us?** 

### 19 **Fourteen?** 

### 20 **MS. MARCHETTI: Do you want me to** 

### 21 **list their names for the record?** 

### 22 **MR. BROOKMAN: We can do that.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 10**  **1 Yeah, here. We're going to read the names of**  

### 2 **the individuals present into the record.** 

### 3 **MS. MARCHETTI: Steve Polinski,** 

### 4 **Eric Zehr, Fabian Cerrito, sorry; Mark Drake,** 

### 5 **Michael Woodford, Mizanur Chowdhury, Nestor** 

### 6 **Salazar, Patrick Powell, Paul Griffin, Ryan** 

### 7 **Fogle.** 

### 8 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, and of** 

### 9 **course the reason we do that, is because** 

### 10 **individuals here in the room would like to** 

### 11 **know who, friends and colleagues who might be** 

### 12 **listening in, who might be participating as** 

### 13 **well.** 

### 14 **So I think that's the preliminary** 

### 15 **stuff. Do you want to run through a content** 

### 16 **slides before we take opening remarks? Yes,** 

### 17 **yes. Typically, you -- yeah, yeah.** 

### 18 **Typically you do that.** 

### 19 **Introduction and Background** 

### 20 **MR. ADIN: So we'll just go over** 

### 21 **a few basic ground rule items. I think most** 

### 22 **of these are things that the folks in this**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 11**  **1 room are pretty well familiar with. But just**  

### 2 **basic meeting ground rules. It's generally** 

### 3 **--** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: I've done those.** 

### 5 **MR. ADIN: I'm sorry?** 

### 6 **MR. BROOKMAN: I've done those.** 

### 7 **MR. ADIN: Oh, you did those.** 

### 8 **I'm sorry.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yep.** 

### 10 **MR. ADIN: So there's the agenda** 

### 11 **generally. You all have a copy of that, so I** 

### 12 **don't know that we need to go through that in** 

### 13 **detail.** 

### 14 **So I'll proceed to introductions.** 

### 15 **We do have this meeting occurring via** 

### 16 **webinar, as folks on the webinar are** 

### 17 **certainly are well aware. So I don't know** 

### 18 **that we need to linger on this one.** 

### 19 **The purpose of this meeting is to** 

### 20 **present DOE's proposal for revisions to the** 

### 21 **test procedures for residential** 

### 22 **refrigerators, refrigerators and freezers,**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 12**  **1 which includes a number of amendments, as I**  

### 2 **know all of you are aware.** 

### 3 **We invite comments on a number of** 

### 4 **items, and there will be various points** 

### 5 **throughout the presentation, at which we'll** 

### 6 **be asking for specific comments on particular** 

### 7 **items. But certainly you're free to make** 

### 8 **comments or ask questions at any point during** 

### 9 **that presentation today, also discuss** 

### 10 **generally our next steps.** 

### 11 **The rulemaking progression for a** 

### 12 **test procedure is relatively simple. At the** 

### 13 **most basic level, there are just two steps.** 

### 14 **We do a proposal through a notice of proposed** 

### 15 **rulemaking, and then proceed to final rule.** 

### 16 **The proposal, which you've all** 

### 17 **seen, is in the notice that we published on** 

### 18 **July 10th, or the public meeting today, July** 

### 19 **25th.** 

### 20 **We'll receive comments through or** 

### 21 **up until September 23rd, and then after DOE** 

### 22 **has had an opportunity to review and consider**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 13**  **1 all comments that we've received, we'll**  

### 2 **proceed to a final rule.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. So now,** 

### 4 **thank you, and we will proceed to opening** 

### 5 **remarks, stakeholder comments here at the** 

### 6 **outset, for anybody that wishes to. Do you** 

### 7 **wish to? Rob, please.** 

### 8 **MR. McARVER: This is Rob McArver** 

### 9 **with AHAM. Good morning. So I'd like to** 

### 10 **thank the Department of Energy for the** 

### 11 **opportunity comment today on the proposed** 

### 12 **amendment to DOE's refrigerator-freezer test** 

### 13 **procedures.** 

### 14 **As always, AHAM supports DOE in** 

### 15 **its efforts to save energy, and we recognize** 

### 16 **that the representativeness and accuracy of** 

### 17 **these test procedures are an important part** 

### 18 **of those efforts.** 

### 19 **AHAM also appreciates DOE's** 

### 20 **willingness to review and respond to** 

### 21 **regulated parties' concerns regarding the** 

### 22 **need for clarity in certain sections of the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 14**  **1 test procedures.**  

### 2 **As a threshold matter, however,** 

### 3 **we firmly believe that now is not the time to** 

### 4 **propose or promulgate what we see as** 

### 5 **significant changes to test procedures that** 

### 6 **will become effective next year.** 

### 7 **Regarding today's discussion, the** 

### 8 **Department's timing with this proposed rule** 

### 9 **is extremely challenging for appliance** 

### 10 **manufacturers. DOE released the notice and** 

### 11 **scheduled this public meeting right when** 

### 12 **manufacturers are preparing their annual** 

### 13 **reports on energy efficiency performance to** 

### 14 **DOE and FTC.** 

### 15 **The deadline for these reports is** 

### 16 **August 1, next week. Because of the demand** 

### 17 **this places on company resources, it was** 

### 18 **virtually impossible for manufacturers to** 

### 19 **review the notice in detail and prepare** 

### 20 **adequately for the public meeting. More** 

### 21 **importantly, now is not an appropriate time** 

### 22 **to make significant changes to the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 15**  **1 refrigerator freezer test procedures, some of**  

### 2 **which in AHAM's view, will significantly** 

### 3 **impact calculations of measured energy use.** 

### 4 **Manufacturers have already** 

### 5 **designed their products for 2014, or are** 

### 6 **nearing completion of the design phase, and** 

### 7 **are nearly or currently ready to begin** 

### 8 **testing. There simply isn't time to** 

### 9 **reengineer these products if the new test** 

### 10 **procedures produce adverse results.** 

### 11 **Furthermore, the comment deadline** 

### 12 **on this notice is September 23rd, less a year** 

### 13 **before the 2014 standards become effective.** 

### 14 **Even under a best case scenario, it does not** 

### 15 **seem likely that a final rule could be issued** 

### 16 **in time, to allow manufacturers to launch** 

### 17 **products that comply with these additional** 

### 18 **changes to the test procedures by the 1st of** 

### 19 **January, which is the date FTC has permitted** 

### 20 **for early compliance labeling.** 

### 21 **Many manufacturers have long been** 

### 22 **planning to launch 2014 compliant products on**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 16**  **1 or soon after that date. To do so, however,**  

### 2 **product testing must begin immediately. It** 

### 3 **is simply too late for DOE to be proposing** 

### 4 **these significant changes.** 

### 5 **Finally, AHAM questions whether** 

### 6 **DOE has authority under the Energy Policy and** 

### 7 **Conservation Act to make de minimis** 

### 8 **determinations regarding the impact of test** 

### 9 **procedure changes on measured energy.** 

### 10 **DOE proposes to do so in several** 

### 11 **instances in this rulemaking. DOE's approach** 

### 12 **ignores situations in which there is a broad** 

### 13 **range of impacts across basic models, at the** 

### 14 **average near zero.** 

### 15 **For those manufacturers whose** 

### 16 **products show more significant impacts, the** 

### 17 **proposed change to the test procedures could** 

### 18 **be the difference between meeting and falling** 

### 19 **short of the requirements of the standard.** 

### 20 **We believe that DOE's approach in** 

### 21 **this rulemaking, when applied to an amended** 

### 22 **standard that has already been promulgated,**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 17**  **1 undercuts the three-year lead-in period**  

### 2 **required by law, especially because the** 

### 3 **grandfathering protections in EPCA often will** 

### 4 **not apply. This can put manufacturers at a** 

### 5 **severe disadvantage and have grave commercial** 

### 6 **implications.** 

### 7 **Thank you for the opportunity to** 

### 8 **provide input at today's public meeting.** 

### 9 **AHAM will provide more detail on these issues** 

### 10 **in its written comments, and will comment on** 

### 11 **some of the specific issues raised in the** 

### 12 **notice throughout the meeting today.** 

### 13 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Rob.** 

### 14 **Other comments here at the outset? Nathan.** 

### 15 **MR. MOUW: Yes, good morning.** 

### 16 **This is Nathan Mouw from Whirlpool.** 

### 17 **Whirlpool values the effort that DOE takes to** 

### 18 **continuously improve its energy test** 

### 19 **procedure.** 

### 20 **It's very important that we** 

### 21 **continue to do that, as far as accuracy,** 

### 22 **repeatability and reproducibility, and we**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 18**  **1 thank DOE for the opportunity to comment on**  

### 2 **this proposal that was released on the** 

### 3 **Federal Register on July 10th, and we also** 

### 4 **acknowledge that many of these changes that** 

### 5 **have been proposed are a result of our** 

### 6 **request from AHAM and its member companies.** 

### 7 **We agree with the merit of many** 

### 8 **of the proposed changes, and look forward to** 

### 9 **the benefits that they will provide our** 

### 10 **consumers' understanding of real energy** 

### 11 **consumption. However, we do echo the concern** 

### 12 **raised by AHAM in their opening statement** 

### 13 **regarding the timing of these changes.** 

### 14 **We have directed a large portion** 

### 15 **of our engineering resources for the last 15** 

### 16 **months away from innovation to focus on** 

### 17 **redesign of most of our refrigerator and** 

### 18 **freezer line to meet these energy** 

### 19 **requirements that are the new requirements** 

### 20 **that are effective next year.** 

### 21 **These engineers will continue** 

### 22 **this focus work up until launch of these new**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 19**  **1 products starting as early as January, less**  

### 2 **than six months from now. Introducing a** 

### 3 **significant number of changes right now is a** 

### 4 **real distraction from this work that we need** 

### 5 **to accomplish, to navigate this transition** 

### 6 **successfully.** 

### 7 **In the event that these changes,** 

### 8 **some or all of these changes to the test** 

### 9 **procedure are made effective during this** 

### 10 **time, we do ask that for clarity from DOE and** 

### 11 **how we plan to coordinate these changes with** 

### 12 **the early compliance exemption allowed by the** 

### 13 **FTC.** 

### 14 **We also echo the concern of AHAM** 

### 15 **that many of these proposed amendments may** 

### 16 **impact measured energy. Our engineers have** 

### 17 **been busy designing new platforms to meet a** 

### 18 **federal standard based on a DOE test** 

### 19 **procedure that we released last year. Any** 

### 20 **changes to this test procedure that do impact** 

### 21 **measured energy, even seemingly small, can** 

### 22 **put this work and possibly these new**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 20**  **1 redesigned platforms at risk from meeting the**  

### 2 **federal energy standard.** 

### 3 **In summary, we look forward to** 

### 4 **working with DOE to finalize these** 

### 5 **improvements, and will submit detailed** 

### 6 **written comments in support of this work.** 

### 7 **But we emphasize that now is not the time to** 

### 8 **make changes, especially those changes that** 

### 9 **may have any chance of impacting measured** 

### 10 **energy for any basic model. Thanks a lot.** 

### 11 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 12 **Jennifer.** 

### 13 **MS. AMANN: Hi. This is Jennifer** 

### 14 **Amann with ACEEE. Just a brief comment. We** 

### 15 **recognize that there have been some changes** 

### 16 **to the time line, and that DOE hasn't been** 

### 17 **able to maintain the time line that we have** 

### 18 **recommended in the consensus agreement, that** 

### 19 **the advocates and the manufacturers put** 

### 20 **forward on these products.** 

### 21 **But what we'd like to do is see** 

### 22 **that we can get as much of the spirit in that**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 21**  **1 consensus agreement incorporated into the**  

### 2 **test procedures now.** 

### 3 **So we're very interested today to** 

### 4 **learn from DOE kind of what the limitations** 

### 5 **are, what the possibilities are, and to** 

### 6 **understand from the manufacturers, you know,** 

### 7 **how much of the spirit of the agreement we** 

### 8 **can stick to, in getting some changes into** 

### 9 **the test procedures and what things would be** 

### 10 **delayed and how we can minimize the delay in** 

### 11 **terms of, you know, better using the test** 

### 12 **procedures to understand energy consumption** 

### 13 **of the products and to reflect that in the** 

### 14 **information that's provided to consumers on** 

### 15 **the energy use of these products. Thanks.** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 17 **Additional comments? Nothing additional** 

### 18 **here?** 

### 19 **Okay. Then let's proceed. We're** 

### 20 **going to start off with content from Lucas** 

### 21 **Adin.** 

### 22 **Regulatory History and Products Covered**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 22**  **1 MR. ADIN: So as I mentioned**  

### 2 **earlier, there are a number of places in the** 

### 3 **rule where, I'm sorry in the presentation,** 

### 4 **where we're requesting comment on specific** 

### 5 **items, and this is just what those issue** 

### 6 **boxes look like.** 

### 7 **So just as a reminder to** 

### 8 **everyone, we will be requesting comment on** 

### 9 **specific items as we go through. So we've** 

### 10 **done opening statements. So this slide lays** 

### 11 **out the general regulatory time line for** 

### 12 **these test procedures.** 

### 13 **The first DOE final rule that** 

### 14 **established a federal test procedure for** 

### 15 **these products was published in 1977, and** 

### 16 **then a second final rule in 1982 established** 

### 17 **the test procedure that essentially is the** 

### 18 **foundation of the procedure that is still** 

### 19 **used today, which is based on the AHAM HRF-1-** 

### 20 **1979 procedure.** 

### 21 **The rules that occurred after** 

### 22 **that were, in most respects, modifications to**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 23**  **1 add testing for various other features that**  

### 2 **had come along.** 

### 3 **But the basic foundation was** 

### 4 **established in that 1982 rule, and then in** 

### 5 **2012, DOE published a final rule that** 

### 6 **established a new Appendix A test procedure** 

### 7 **that's based on, in part on HRF-1-2008, and** 

### 8 **will be the procedure required for use to** 

### 9 **establish compliance with the new amended DOE** 

### 10 **energy conservation standards in 2014.** 

### 11 **There are also a few waivers that** 

### 12 **are still in effect for some of these** 

### 13 **products, as are shown on the bottom there.** 

### 14 **Generally speaking, DOE tries to address** 

### 15 **waivers in each test procedure rulemaking to** 

### 16 **eliminate the need for those waivers. So a** 

### 17 **few of those will be addressed today.** 

### 18 **For freezers, the timeline is** 

### 19 **essentially identical. We've dealt with** 

### 20 **freezers in parallel with refrigerators in** 

### 21 **each rule. I think the only one that's not** 

### 22 **there is that 2003 rule which dealt with a**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 24**  **1 feature that was not present in freezers at**  

### 2 **that time anyway.** 

### 3 **So I'll briefly mention the scope** 

### 4 **of products that are covered by the test** 

### 5 **procedure changes. I think this is probably** 

### 6 **clear to everyone here, but just in case,** 

### 7 **this rule affects three types of products** 

### 8 **defined by DOE, which are defined** 

### 9 **specifically in the regulations in Section** 

### 10 **430.2.** 

### 11 **That's electric refrigerators,** 

### 12 **electric refrigerator-freezers and freezers.** 

### 13 **So I don't think there are any questions** 

### 14 **about that one.** 

### 15 **So we'll move into the specific** 

### 16 **test procedure amendments, and this slide** 

### 17 **shows the overall list of items that we're** 

### 18 **going to be discussing today. There are** 

### 19 **quite a few. So I think we're ready to move** 

### 20 **into discussion about the icemaking test** 

### 21 **procedure. That's our first item for** 

### 22 **discussion today.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 25**  **1 So I'll turn over to Andrew Jean**  

### 2 **Louis, who is going to explain that part of** 

### 3 **the proposal. All right.** 

### 4 **Test Procedure Amendments: Icemaking** 

### 5 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Thank you.** 

### 6 **Thank you, Lucas. Again, I'm Andrew Jean** 

### 7 **Louis from Navigant, and I'll talk about the** 

### 8 **icemaking portion of the modifications that** 

### 9 **we're proposing today. This is just a** 

### 10 **summary of the modifications to -- how's** 

### 11 **that?** 

### 12 **MR. ADIN: Yeah. Speak loudly.** 

### 13 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Okay. All** 

### 14 **right. This is a list of the key** 

### 15 **modifications that DOE is proposing to the** 

### 16 **AHAM test procedure for icemaking that was** 

### 17 **submitted in 2012. I'm not going to go** 

### 18 **through it, but just an overall view of what** 

### 19 **we're looking at today.** 

### 20 **So DOE is proposing not to** 

### 21 **specifically address specifically** 

### 22 **refrigerators, or products with manual**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 26**  **1 defrost for the icemaking test procedure.**  

### 2 **DOE is requesting comment on that approach,** 

### 3 **and whether any refrigerators that are sold** 

### 4 **with -- any refrigerators are, mainly defrost** 

### 5 **freezers, are sold with automatic icemakers,** 

### 6 **and if so, DOE is requesting comment on** 

### 7 **whether the test procedures for automatic** 

### 8 **icemakers should cover those products.** 

### 9 **And I guess finally, DOE is also** 

### 10 **seeking comment on this issue, in part to** 

### 11 **ascertain whether today's proposal should** 

### 12 **apply to refrigerators or refrigerator** 

### 13 **freezers if those products do have icemakers.** 

### 14 **So I guess at this time, it would** 

### 15 **be great to hear if anyone has any feedback** 

### 16 **on whether those type of products have** 

### 17 **icemakers, and if so, should the icemaking** 

### 18 **test procedure be addressed for those** 

### 19 **products.** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew, can you go** 

### 21 **back to the preceding slide?** 

### 22 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Oh sure.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 27**  **1 MR. BROOKMAN: Just put this**  

### 2 **slide up there. Leave it up there for you to** 

### 3 **refer to as you're thinking about your** 

### 4 **comments.** 

### 5 **No comments here? Nothing come** 

### 6 **from online. Okay. Let's proceed.** 

### 7 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Okay. So DOE is** 

### 8 **also proposing to establish some definitions** 

### 9 **for the icemaking test procedure. Just to** 

### 10 **make things more familiar for those who are** 

### 11 **following the test procedure for icemakers.** 

### 12 **So specifically, definitions for** 

### 13 **the harvest, the operation of removing ice** 

### 14 **from the ice mold, the definition for ice** 

### 15 **storage bin which is pretty straightforward,** 

### 16 **and ice piece, I guess also known as like an** 

### 17 **ice cube, something that's more general, so** 

### 18 **that you don't reduce the scope to something** 

### 19 **that's a specific shape.** 

### 20 **Lastly, a definition for the** 

### 21 **through the door ice dispenser. So I guess** 

### 22 **at this point we're requesting comment on**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 28**  **1 these definitions.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here?** 

### 3 **All right.** 

### 4 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Okay. So in** 

### 5 **terms of test procedure for the icemaking** 

### 6 **portion, DOE is proposing to require that the** 

### 7 **anti-sweat heater switch be turned off during** 

### 8 **the icemaking portion of the test. So this** 

### 9 **strategy would prevent the random activation** 

### 10 **of a variable anti-sweat heater triggering** 

### 11 **during the test procedure.** 

### 12 **We'll also call for a strategy** 

### 13 **where, for variable anti-sweat heaters that** 

### 14 **don't have a switch, to require a test to** 

### 15 **have -- the test chamber to have a humidity** 

### 16 **level that's below the threshold that would** 

### 17 **trigger operation of that anti-sweat heater.** 

### 18 **So at this point, we're** 

### 19 **requesting comment on that strategy, and** 

### 20 **suggestions for other ways to deal with this** 

### 21 **type of heating operation in refrigerators.** 

### 22 **MR. BROOKMAN: Rob.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 29**  **1 MR. McARVER: If I could make a**  

### 2 **quick comment.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Rob, please turn** 

### 4 **the microphone on.** 

### 5 **MR. McARVER: Sorry. Rob McArver** 

### 6 **with AHAM. If I could make a quick comment** 

### 7 **about this. There were two flaws that we saw** 

### 8 **in this particular provision and we'll** 

### 9 **highlight in more detail in our comments,** 

### 10 **written comments.** 

### 11 **But one, I think the assumption** 

### 12 **is wrong. There are several basic models** 

### 13 **that do not use an anti-sweat heater switch,** 

### 14 **and we'll go in more detail on that again in** 

### 15 **the written comments.** 

### 16 **The second item is the data** 

### 17 **manufacturers is based on a 72 degree** 

### 18 **Fahrenheit ambient condition, and I don't** 

### 19 **think that's reflected in the proposal as** 

### 20 **drafted.** 

### 21 **MR. BROOKMAN: And that would** 

### 22 **apply in this section here?**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 30**  **1 MR. McARVER: Yeah. This is for**  

### 2 **2(d), the anti-sweat heater switches.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, okay.** 

### 4 **Thanks. Detlef.** 

### 5 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Detlef** 

### 6 **Westphalen, Navigant. If I recall correctly,** 

### 7 **you know, maybe the wording changed a little** 

### 8 **bit, but I think the proposal was that for** 

### 9 **products without a switch, that the test** 

### 10 **would be conducted in conditions where the** 

### 11 **anti-sweat heater would not be activated.** 

### 12 **It doesn't specify that that's** 

### 13 **the certification reported relative humidity** 

### 14 **would be the relative humidity that would be** 

### 15 **used as the threshold.** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Bill.** 

### 17 **MR. BROWN: Bill Brown, GE** 

### 18 **Appliances. In the DOE's comments, they did** 

### 19 **note that based on the manufacturers'** 

### 20 **submittals, that the threshold seemed to be** 

### 21 **around 30 to 35 percent relative humidity,** 

### 22 **where the heaters do not come on.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 31**  **1 That obviously is based on our**  

### 2 **submittals at 72 degrees. At 90 degrees,** 

### 3 **it's quite a bit different, and I would say** 

### 4 **even with one of our products, you know, the** 

### 5 **threshold is more like ten percent relative** 

### 6 **humidity for a 90 degree ambient.** 

### 7 **So a couple of things that are a** 

### 8 **flaw there, in that the DOE said in their** 

### 9 **research that they were not aware of any** 

### 10 **products with a variable anti-sweat heater** 

### 11 **system that did not have a switch, and I** 

### 12 **think many manufacturers have that.** 

### 13 **I know that the factory that I'm** 

### 14 **in makes nothing but that type of product.** 

### 15 **As far as the humidity levels go, the** 

### 16 **assumption of 30 to 35 percent was based on** 

### 17 **72 degree information from the manufacturers.** 

### 18 **The real information of 90** 

### 19 **degrees was quite a bit different, and I** 

### 20 **don't believe that it would be feasible** 

### 21 **economically to be able to pull rooms down to** 

### 22 **levels so low that at 90 degrees, anti-sweat**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 32**  **1 heaters would not come on.**  

### 2 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Okay. I guess,** 

### 3 **you know, in written comments DOE would** 

### 4 **request some discussion and consideration of** 

### 5 **potential alternative approaches that could** 

### 6 **be used, to assure that variations associated** 

### 7 **with random activation of the heaters could** 

### 8 **be afforded.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you,** 

### 10 **Detlef. Other comments in response to Issue** 

### 11 **2(d)? Okay.** 

### 12 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So DOE's next** 

### 13 **proposal is to modify the requirements for** 

### 14 **unit installation with the current -- in** 

### 15 **Appendix A, because the procedures require** 

### 16 **certain conditions that would not jibe well** 

### 17 **with the operation of the icemaking test.** 

### 18 **So DOE is proposing to allow the** 

### 19 **connection of water lines for the icemaking** 

### 20 **test, and also allowing for the ice storage** 

### 21 **bin to not be empty during the icemaking** 

### 22 **test. So it's just another area where we**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 33**  **1 request comment on these proposed**  

### 2 **modifications to the installation.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew.** 

### 4 **MR. KRAUSE: This is Andrew** 

### 5 **Krause from GE. The one question we had was** 

### 6 **in reference to why the water filter is being** 

### 7 **specified and concerns about interpretation** 

### 8 **of that, and potential changes in water** 

### 9 **filters.** 

### 10 **For instance, if we changed the** 

### 11 **water filter design in Year 2, would that** 

### 12 **require us to reevaluate energy when you do** 

### 13 **that. There are multiple water filters that** 

### 14 **fit some refrigerators. So which one do you** 

### 15 **select? So a lot of different questions** 

### 16 **about the interpretation of what that rule** 

### 17 **means we have.** 

### 18 **MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas.** 

### 19 **MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. It's** 

### 20 **a good question, and I guess I'd follow it up** 

### 21 **with a question in response, which is whether** 

### 22 **there's actually an extent to which a change**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 34**  **1 in the filter would be likely to affect the**  

### 2 **operation of the component or the icemaker or** 

### 3 **its energy use?** 

### 4 **I mean to the extent, you can be** 

### 5 **specific about what that impact might be.** 

### 6 **That would be useful for us in considering** 

### 7 **how we might address an aspect like that.** 

### 8 **MR. KRAUSE: Just some ideas on** 

### 9 **what that could be, location of the filter or** 

### 10 **the volume of water that's contained inside** 

### 11 **of it, and the temperature that's at it would** 

### 12 **affect the energy in some regards, depending** 

### 13 **on how much heat you have to remove from the** 

### 14 **water.** 

### 15 **So you know, if I was to put the** 

### 16 **water filter on the outside of the** 

### 17 **refrigerator versus the inside of the** 

### 18 **refrigerator, it affects the -- it would** 

### 19 **affect the energy in some regards.** 

### 20 **Likewise, again, the capacity of** 

### 21 **water inside that filter has to do with how** 

### 22 **much energy you have to remove from it when**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 35**  **1 you're putting it inside the refrigerator,**  

### 2 **and you put it in much cooler water, and the** 

### 3 **icemaker would affect the energy too.** 

### 4 **So the mass of water would change** 

### 5 **the results you would get. So there would be** 

### 6 **some things that would be affected there.** 

### 7 **Don't know entirely how much without doing** 

### 8 **some analysis on it, which we could do.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 10 **Other comments here? All right.** 

### 11 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So the next** 

### 12 **proposal is regarding the ambient temperature** 

### 13 **of the icemaking test. DOE is proposing a 90** 

### 14 **degree ambient temperature, which is** 

### 15 **consistent with the current requirement for** 

### 16 **the test in general, for the energy test.** 

### 17 **In addition, we're proposing, DOE** 

### 18 **is proposing that the inlet water have** 

### 19 **conditions of 90 degrees Fahrenheit, and 60** 

### 20 **psig, which would require no temperature** 

### 21 **control for the inlet water, and allow the** 

### 22 **water to equilibrate with the ambient test**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 36**  **1 chamber.**  

### 2 **Also, the pressure range falls** 

### 3 **within what we find, what we found in the** 

### 4 **product literature for most icemakers.** 

### 5 **Lastly, it's consistent with what AHAM** 

### 6 **proposed in its revised draft. So at this** 

### 7 **moment, we would like to request comment on** 

### 8 **the proposal, the ambient temperature and** 

### 9 **also the temperature of the inlet water and** 

### 10 **pressure of the inlet water.** 

### 11 **No comments here. Okay.** 

### 12 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So the next** 

### 13 **proposal is regarding the acquisition rate.** 

### 14 **DOE is proposing an acquisition rate that's** 

### 15 **at least once every minute, rather than** 

### 16 **what's in the current test procedure of every** 

### 17 **four minutes.** 

### 18 **Icemaking operation involves so** 

### 19 **many activities and increasing the frequency** 

### 20 **of acquisition would improve the resolution,** 

### 21 **and would also help ensure accuracy of the** 

### 22 **measurement.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 37**  **1 Also, DOE believes that most test**  

### 2 **facilities are already recording time resolve** 

### 3 **data of once per minute, and have the ability** 

### 4 **to do so, most likely won't add test burden** 

### 5 **here. So we're requesting comment on this** 

### 6 **acquisition rate of once per minute.** 

### 7 **MR. BROOKMAN: One of our webinar** 

### 8 **participants, Patrick Powell, has a comment,** 

### 9 **and Patrick, if you unmute your phone and** 

### 10 **speak clearly and loudly, we should be able** 

### 11 **to hear you.** 

### 12 **MR. POWELL: Yes. This is** 

### 13 **Patrick Powell with Underwriters Laboratory.** 

### 14 **I'd like to talk about the previous slide,** 

### 15 **about the water pressure.** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: Please do.** 

### 17 **MR. POWELL: I'd like** 

### 18 **clarification as to how you guys are going to** 

### 19 **measure, how a laboratory is going to measure** 

### 20 **this 60 psig plus or minus 15. Will that be** 

### 21 **as the unit is taking in water, or will it be** 

### 22 **we're to maintain that throughout the cycle**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 38**  **1 of the machine taking in water? Thank you.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 3 **Detlef.** 

### 4 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Detlef** 

### 5 **Westphalen, Navigant. That is not specified** 

### 6 **in the proposal. It's something that could** 

### 7 **be considered. Andrew mentioned the review** 

### 8 **of product literature, which mentions** 

### 9 **pressure ranges that are acceptable for the** 

### 10 **connection to the refrigerator water lines,** 

### 11 **and potentially a question for the** 

### 12 **manufacturers, is that intended to imply as** 

### 13 **the water is flowing, static without flow.** 

### 14 **MR. POWELL: Correct. Thank you.** 

### 15 **MR. BROOKMAN: Additional** 

### 16 **comments here?** 

### 17 **Nothing additional. Okay.** 

### 18 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Okay. I guess** 

### 19 **in regard quickly to the acquisition rate, is** 

### 20 **there anything else?** 

### 21 **Okay. I'll move on then. So the** 

### 22 **next proposal regards the icemaking cycle end**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 39**  **1 points, and this proposal, DOE's proposal**  

### 2 **identifying the icemaking cycles without** 

### 3 **harvest heaters, and to -- oh, speak up. Got** 

### 4 **it. So I guess DOE is aware of several** 

### 5 **icemaker assembly designs that don't utilize** 

### 6 **an ice mold heater.** 

### 7 **So strategies for measuring or** 

### 8 **identifying the icemaking cycle have been** 

### 9 **highlighted here, which would include making** 

### 10 **measurements to or placing temperature** 

### 11 **measurements on the ice mold itself,** 

### 12 **measuring the water supply temperature and** 

### 13 **also I guess looking at the water solenoid** 

### 14 **valve, to identify when the icemaker cycle** 

### 15 **starts and stuff.** 

### 16 **So in regards to that, DOE is** 

### 17 **requesting comment on its identification of** 

### 18 **when the icemaking cycle really is, and is** 

### 19 **requesting comment on three laid out methods** 

### 20 **for identifying icemaking cycles, and the** 

### 21 **requirement of using one of these three** 

### 22 **methods.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 40**  **1 I guess in addition, DOE is**  

### 2 **requesting comment on whether it should** 

### 3 **further clarify when an alternative test** 

### 4 **should be used, whether additional** 

### 5 **alternative methods should be allowed, and** 

### 6 **finally an icemaking cycle delineation based** 

### 7 **on water flow into the icemaker.** 

### 8 **So I guess at this time, it would** 

### 9 **be great to hear any comments on this issue.** 

### 10 **MR. BROOKMAN: I see some notes** 

### 11 **being taken. Are there any comments for the** 

### 12 **record here?** 

### 13 **Nothing at this time. Go ahead.** 

### 14 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So DOE's next** 

### 15 **proposal regards the temperature control** 

### 16 **setting. I guess we have a comment coming** 

### 17 **in.** 

### 18 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, here we go.** 

### 19 **So Patrick Powell, he writes "How will a lab** 

### 20 **know when to harvest and heater would be on** 

### 21 **or off. Or when to harvest, heater would be** 

### 22 **on or off."**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 41**  **1 MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So could you**  

### 2 **read that one more time?** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Patrick, why don't** 

### 4 **you just speak. You were effective. You** 

### 5 **came in loudly and clearly before. So unmute** 

### 6 **yourself and ask the question.** 

### 7 **MR. POWELL: Yes. I have a** 

### 8 **question concerning the statement in Slide** 

### 9 **26, concerning the harvest heater. How would** 

### 10 **we know, as a testing facility, when the** 

### 11 **harvest heater turns on and off?** 

### 12 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Right. Well** 

### 13 **from the data --** 

### 14 **MR. POWELL: Without having to go** 

### 15 **back and look at the energy usage after the** 

### 16 **test. How would we pick it up? Yeah.** 

### 17 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So if I** 

### 18 **understand your question correctly, you're** 

### 19 **asking how you would be able to identify --** 

### 20 **MR. POWELL: How would we know?** 

### 21 **How would a testing lab know when the harvest** 

### 22 **heater turns on or off?**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 42**  **1 MR. JEAN-LOUIS: I guess it would**  

### 2 **just be an analysis of the power trace of the** 

### 3 **unit operating. So looking at the power** 

### 4 **levels and identifying when the compressor is** 

### 5 **triggering, and when what looks like a heater** 

### 6 **on ice mold is triggering.** 

### 7 **I guess based on average and** 

### 8 **typical compressor power levels and typical** 

### 9 **heater power levels and durations, to be able** 

### 10 **to identify either one.** 

### 11 **MR. POWELL: Okay, all right.** 

### 12 **MR. BROOKMAN: Patrick, do you** 

### 13 **want to comment on whether you think that's** 

### 14 **workable or not?** 

### 15 **MR. POWELL: From our** 

### 16 **laboratory's point of view, when we conduct** 

### 17 **the test for monitoring or recording the data** 

### 18 **and the energy usage during the entire test,** 

### 19 **and what you're saying is, you know, we're to** 

### 20 **go back at the end of a test and try to pick** 

### 21 **off when this heater turns on and off, what** 

### 22 **kind of watts are we looking at, you know?**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 43**  **1 Is it 20, is it 50, is it 100?**  

### 2 **Will it be easy for us to pick this on and** 

### 3 **off, pick it when it turns on and off.** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks for** 

### 5 **the question. Here's Detlef.** 

### 6 **MR. WESTPHALEN: This is Detlef** 

### 7 **Westphalen from Navigant. Yeah, most of** 

### 8 **these harvest heaters have a wattage level of** 

### 9 **somewhere around 100 watts, and if you're** 

### 10 **looking at a wattage trace, it's very easy to** 

### 11 **identify when they energize. Does that** 

### 12 **answer the question?** 

### 13 **MR. POWELL: Yes, it does. Thank** 

### 14 **you.** 

### 15 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks.** 

### 16 **Additional comments here? We'll a little** 

### 17 **further ahead than that. We're now on what** 

### 18 **26 or something. If you'd go to Slide 27.** 

### 19 **So we're still seeking comments** 

### 20 **on Issue 2(h) and 2(i), and particularly the** 

### 21 **three proposed methods and the requirement to** 

### 22 **use one of these three proposed or identified**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 44**  **1 methods.**  

### 2 **So I guess from your perspective,** 

### 3 **it's okay? No comment here. Okay, all** 

### 4 **right.** 

### 5 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Well then I'll** 

### 6 **move on to the next proposal, which involves** 

### 7 **temperature control settings for both the** 

### 8 **baseline and icemaking parts of the test.** 

### 9 **DOE took a look at its research,** 

### 10 **to identify the variation of compartments’** 

### 11 **temperatures during the test, and how it** 

### 12 **drifted from standardized temperatures. As a** 

### 13 **result, DOE concluded that its proposal** 

### 14 **should require that compartment temperatures** 

### 15 **rise no more than one degree Fahrenheit in** 

### 16 **either compartment during the baseline test,** 

### 17 **and that same requirement holds true for the** 

### 18 **icemaking test.** 

### 19 **Those figures down below kind of** 

### 20 **show change in temperature on X axis, and** 

### 21 **percent impact on energy on the Y, and this** 

### 22 **is the data that DOE looked at to determine**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 45**  **1 that one degree Fahrenheit would be its**  

### 2 **proposal for a maximum temperature rise** 

### 3 **during the test.** 

### 4 **So as a result, DOE is requesting** 

### 5 **comment on its proposed variation limits on** 

### 6 **compartment temperatures during these parts** 

### 7 **of the test, which would require one, that** 

### 8 **compartment temperatures be set to the** 

### 9 **warmest setting that doesn't exceed one** 

### 10 **degree Fahrenheit from the baseline test.** 

### 11 **Two, that compartment** 

### 12 **temperatures increase through icemaking, that** 

### 13 **they be adjusted to their warmest setting for** 

### 14 **which the requirement are no more than one** 

### 15 **degree Fahrenheit warmer during the icemaking** 

### 16 **test than they were during the baseline test,** 

### 17 **for units that are controlled by mechanical** 

### 18 **knobs, that they be in line with the symbol** 

### 19 **on the dial.** 

### 20 **Lastly, that products that use** 

### 21 **the quick freeze control during icemaking be** 

### 22 **tested without disabling this feature during**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 46**  **1 a test.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill** 

### 3 **MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE** 

### 4 **Appliances. There's a couple of things I** 

### 5 **would comment regarding this. First, let's** 

### 6 **start off with the test burden of having to** 

### 7 **change the controls, in order to achieve this** 

### 8 **one degree equivalence with the baseline** 

### 9 **test.** 

### 10 **With the initial AHAM revised** 

### 11 **test procedure, you'll see that you've tested** 

### 12 **for stability. Then you enable icemaking and** 

### 13 **then collect the data and your test is** 

### 14 **complete at that point.** 

### 15 **This proposed test procedure here** 

### 16 **requires possible iteration, and that you** 

### 17 **would run the test first, get some** 

### 18 **temperatures for the fresh food and freezer** 

### 19 **compartments, then have to run the icemaking** 

### 20 **portion a number of times, depending on how** 

### 21 **good you are at changing the control setting** 

### 22 **to get within the one degree.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 47**  **1 So test burden-wise, this is not**  

### 2 **a favorable test procedure for manufacturers,** 

### 3 **for test labs to have to run. This greatly** 

### 4 **would increase the test time.** 

### 5 **Secondly, as far as some DOE** 

### 6 **comments regarding what the AHAM revised test** 

### 7 **procedure said, I think that there were some** 

### 8 **assumptions that DOE made about what AHAM** 

### 9 **said, that were not exactly accurate, in that** 

### 10 **the DOE stated in initial comments that AHAM** 

### 11 **believed that temperatures would vary in the** 

### 12 **field, like they do in the test, and that's** 

### 13 **not what the AHAM test procedure said.** 

### 14 **It said that customers would not** 

### 15 **be adjusting the temperatures in the field** 

### 16 **once you turn on the icemaking. It did not** 

### 17 **say that customers in the field should** 

### 18 **experience a wide range of temperatures once** 

### 19 **you start icemaking.** 

### 20 **The DOE did comment that in the** 

### 21 **field, you would have loaded freezers, and** 

### 22 **this test is an unloaded freezer. So I**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 48**  **1 believe that the comments that DOE was**  

### 2 **making, that you want to keep these** 

### 3 **temperatures within one degree, should change** 

### 4 **the control settings.** 

### 5 **Your arguments are really saying** 

### 6 **you should not change the controls, because** 

### 7 **in the field you would have a loaded freezer,** 

### 8 **and that thermal mass would not change** 

### 9 **temperature like an unloaded refrigerator or** 

### 10 **unloaded freezer.** 

### 11 **Therefore, we believe two reasons** 

### 12 **you should not change the temperature** 

### 13 **controls once you start the icemaking. One,** 

### 14 **test burden; two, in the field you would have** 

### 15 **a loaded freezer and the temperature would** 

### 16 **not change. The fact that it does in the** 

### 17 **unloaded test is not meant to be indicative** 

### 18 **of what happens in the field.** 

### 19 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 20 **Additional thoughts here?** 

### 21 **Nothing additional. Okay.** 

### 22 **MR. BROWN: Oh, sorry. One other**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 49**  **1 comment on Item No. 4. This is Bill Brown**  

### 2 **with GE again, the quick freeze control** 

### 3 **during the icemaking. We believe that this** 

### 4 **really should not be part of the test.** 

### 5 **Quick freeze control is a specific feature** 

### 6 **that many products have to make a large** 

### 7 **amount of ice in a small period of time.** 

### 8 **This would be for customers who** 

### 9 **want to have -- typically, we think of if you** 

### 10 **have a party or something like that, and you** 

### 11 **want a large amount of ice. For the most** 

### 12 **part, this is a seldomly used feature.** 

### 13 **Most of the time we expect** 

### 14 **customers would use just the regular settings** 

### 15 **and not use this quick freeze control.** 

### 16 **Therefore, by mandating that this quick** 

### 17 **freeze control is on all the time is really** 

### 18 **not indicative of what we think customers,** 

### 19 **how customers would be using the product by** 

### 20 **and large.** 

### 21 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Yes,** 

### 22 **Detlef.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 50**  **1 MR. WESTPHALEN: Detlef**  

### 2 **Westphalen, Navigant. The discussion of the** 

### 3 **quick freeze, maybe there was some** 

### 4 **misunderstanding. The intent was that quick** 

### 5 **freeze would not be activated during the** 

### 6 **icemaking test. DOE has observed at least** 

### 7 **one unit that automatically shifts into quick** 

### 8 **freeze when icemaking is active, and hence** 

### 9 **this part of the proposal.** 

### 10 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 11 **MR. BROWN: Okay. This is Bill** 

### 12 **again with GE. We read this to say that you** 

### 13 **would have to turn on quick freeze. So if** 

### 14 **your intent was not that, that if it went** 

### 15 **into quick freeze on its own, then I would** 

### 16 **agree. But we read this to say if you have a** 

### 17 **quick freeze option, you must turn on quick** 

### 18 **freeze when you run the icemaking test. So** 

### 19 **is that not correct?** 

### 20 **MR. WESTPHALEN: That is not** 

### 21 **correct, and I guess we need to review the** 

### 22 **language to make sure it's more clear.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 51**  **1 MR. BROWN: Okay.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: So state it again.** 

### 3 **What was your intention? What was you trying** 

### 4 **to convey?** 

### 5 **MR. WESTPHALEN: The intent is** 

### 6 **that if a product automatically goes into** 

### 7 **quick freeze when icemaking is active, that** 

### 8 **that feature not be deactivated for an** 

### 9 **icemaking test, because that is something** 

### 10 **that happens in the field when consumers are** 

### 11 **making ice, and it should be part of the test** 

### 12 **when you have, you know, trying to represent** 

### 13 **field action.** 

### 14 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Additional** 

### 15 **comments here? Okay.** 

### 16 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So the next** 

### 17 **topic of discussion is regarding the DOE** 

### 18 **production rate for icemaking that is typical** 

### 19 **in the field. DOE proposes to use 1.8 for** 

### 20 **the ice production rate, that was initially** 

### 21 **suggested by AHAM in its update to DOE back** 

### 22 **in 2009.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 52**  **1 So although higher than estimates**  

### 2 **based on NEEA data, this is consistent with** 

### 3 **the current placeholder for icemaking in** 

### 4 **energy use in Appendix A. DOE is also** 

### 5 **proposing for temperature control settings** 

### 6 **during icemaking tests, that are based on the** 

### 7 **assumption that there is a little bit of** 

### 8 **deviation of cabinet temperatures during the** 

### 9 **field icemaking operations.** 

### 10 **So I guess this is looking at an** 

### 11 **extended, consecutive cycle operation, and** 

### 12 **also the thermal mass of loaded refrigerator** 

### 13 **limits on temperature deviation.** 

### 14 **So two areas of comment here.** 

### 15 **DOE is requesting comment on the daily ice** 

### 16 **production rate, and is also seeking comment** 

### 17 **on whether 1.8 pounds per day should be** 

### 18 **retained, or whether a lower rate, as** 

### 19 **suggested by the Northwest Energy Efficiency** 

### 20 **Alliance, should be considered.** 

### 21 **Secondly, DOE is also assuming** 

### 22 **that in the field, icemaking typically occurs**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 53**  **1 only during initial filling of a bin, and**  

### 2 **excessive icemaking cycles after a portion of** 

### 3 **ice has been withdrawn from the bin.** 

### 4 **So DOE is requesting comment on** 

### 5 **DOE's assumptions, and if that assumption is** 

### 6 **incorrect, information that supports an** 

### 7 **alternative approach and description of** 

### 8 **icemaking operation in the field.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob.** 

### 10 **MR. McARVER: This is Rob McArver** 

### 11 **with AHAM. I'd like to address the first** 

### 12 **issue there, the ice production rate.** 

### 13 **AHAM, together with advocates in** 

### 14 **considering NIST research and** 

### 15 **recommendations, submitted to DOE a test** 

### 16 **procedure for measuring the incremental** 

### 17 **energy to make ice, that we believe to be** 

### 18 **accurate, repeatable, and reproducible, and** 

### 19 **to represent an appropriate and acceptable** 

### 20 **balance between accuracy and test burden.** 

### 21 **DOE's proposed changes will** 

### 22 **greatly increase the test burden. We note**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 54**  **1 that DOE indicated that 0.7 pounds per day**  

### 2 **may be a more realistic value for the ice** 

### 3 **production rate, but still proposes to rely** 

### 4 **on AHAM's initial data of 1.8 pounds per day.** 

### 5 **AHAM has consistently commented** 

### 6 **that DOE should do a national study to** 

### 7 **determine a representative value for the ice** 

### 8 **production rate, and that the 1.8 pounds per** 

### 9 **day AHAM submitted was simply an estimate** 

### 10 **based on limited data.** 

### 11 **If 0.7 is a more representative** 

### 12 **value, that should inform DOE's determination** 

### 13 **regarding acceptable test burden. DOE stated** 

### 14 **that the current proposal would increase** 

### 15 **testing time by 50 percent, as compared with** 

### 16 **the current test in order to measure** 

### 17 **icemaking energy use.** 

### 18 **DOE also stated that energy use** 

### 19 **associated with automatic icemaking** 

### 20 **represents 10 to 15 percent of the rated** 

### 21 **energy use of typical refrigeration products.** 

### 22 **The ice production rate impacts that**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 55**  **1 analysis.**  

### 2 **Accordingly, AHAM is carefully** 

### 3 **reviewing DOE's proposal, and will provide** 

### 4 **detailed thoughts in our written comments.** 

### 5 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 6 **Any comments on Issue 2.j? I think that's J** 

### 7 **or is it I? I, I guess it's I. I guess it** 

### 8 **is. I stand corrected. It is J.** 

### 9 **All right. Nothing additional.** 

### 10 **Okay.** 

### 11 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So DOE's** 

### 12 **proposal for the baseline on the icemaking** 

### 13 **tests are slight adjustments from AHAM's** 

### 14 **revised draft proposal. The baseline test** 

### 15 **would be consistent with Appendix A, Section** 

### 16 **4.1, which is the non-automatic defrost** 

### 17 **portion of the test, the first part of the** 

### 18 **test, which would be at least three hours' in** 

### 19 **duration and consisting of two, at least two** 

### 20 **compressor cycles, for systems that have** 

### 21 **cycling compressors.** 

### 22 **The icemaking test period would**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 56**  **1 be at least 24 hours of icemaking, unless**  

### 2 **interrupted by defrost or the bin filling up** 

### 3 **before that period. Icemaking would be** 

### 4 **initiated during compressor operations** 

### 5 **shortly after defrost, prior to the start of** 

### 6 **the icemaking test.** 

### 7 **For products whose compressors** 

### 8 **that do not cycle during icemaking, the test** 

### 9 **period would include the whole number of** 

### 10 **icemaking cycles. For products whose** 

### 11 **compressors do cycle during icemaking, the** 

### 12 **test would be based on compressor cycles and** 

### 13 **on icemaking cycles, which are used for an** 

### 14 **energy use calculation.** 

### 15 **Lastly stability, the** 

### 16 **temperatures for every one compressor cycle** 

### 17 **or icemaking cycle within, would have to be** 

### 18 **within three degrees Fahrenheit of the test** 

### 19 **period average. So here, DOE is** 

### 20 **proposing evaluation of the two icemaking** 

### 21 **test periods for products that cycle the** 

### 22 **compressors during icemaking. This figure**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 57**  **1 depicts a refrigerator-freezer that is**  

### 2 **cycling and is also producing ice.** 

### 3 **The red box is a test period** 

### 4 **dictated by icemaking cycles. The green box** 

### 5 **is a test period dictated by compressor** 

### 6 **cycles, and the calculation at the bottom** 

### 7 **determines the energy use per mass, using** 

### 8 **both test periods.** 

### 9 **So the compressor based test** 

### 10 **period really is what's driving the energy** 

### 11 **use here. So that's an important inclusion** 

### 12 **into the energy per mass equation here.** 

### 13 **So here is a depiction of using** 

### 14 **the single test period versus the dual test** 

### 15 **period. The green line is looking at the** 

### 16 **number of icemaking cycles and approaching** 

### 17 **stabilization energy per, icemaking energy** 

### 18 **per mass, and the yellow is looking at just** 

### 19 **the single test period, looking at a cycling** 

### 20 **compressor that is only using the icemaking** 

### 21 **cycles to determine the test period.** 

### 22 **So you can see that the dual test**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 58**  **1 period gets to a stabilizing after five-six**  

### 2 **cycles, where the single test period takes** 

### 3 **quite a long while to get there, and still** 

### 4 **isn't as good as the dual test period** 

### 5 **calculation.** 

### 6 **So here, DOE is requesting** 

### 7 **comment on its proposal to adopt the test** 

### 8 **period for the baseline part of the test** 

### 9 **that's equivalent to the existing period for** 

### 10 **products with manual defrost, in other words,** 

### 11 **consisting of a period of time of at least** 

### 12 **three hours, and also, it's requesting** 

### 13 **comment on the proposal to allow the overlap** 

### 14 **of the stabilization period with the baseline** 

### 15 **part of the test.** 

### 16 **Secondly, regarding the icemaking** 

### 17 **part of the test, with respect to** 

### 18 **refrigeration products that cycle the** 

### 19 **compressors during icemaking, DOE is** 

### 20 **requesting comment on its proposal to** 

### 21 **establish the periods for the icemaking part** 

### 22 **of the test.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 59**  **1 That's based on both icemaking**  

### 2 **cycles and compressor cycles. Also, that it** 

### 3 **would require that energies be calculated** 

### 4 **using both of these periods, and applying** 

### 5 **them to the same period of icemaking in order** 

### 6 **to provide a more accurate measure of** 

### 7 **icemaking energy.** 

### 8 **At this time, we'd like to hear** 

### 9 **any comments regarding these two issues.** 

### 10 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 11 **MR. BROWN: I'm Bill Brown with** 

### 12 **GE Appliances. One of the concepts we used** 

### 13 **with the AHAM revised test procedure was that** 

### 14 **you are calculating the stability of the** 

### 15 **product, and you have at least seven hours** 

### 16 **for the DOE method to do that.** 

### 17 **So you're showing that you're** 

### 18 **stable for that seven hours. So we didn't** 

### 19 **feel that it was necessary to go any extra** 

### 20 **time beyond that, to create the energy for** 

### 21 **this baseline period. We've already got the** 

### 22 **seven hours.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 60**  **1 So this is a, you know, kind of a**  

### 2 **shortcut in the test method that we** 

### 3 **envisioned, of using the stability to become** 

### 4 **your test period. That does reduce a little** 

### 5 **bit of a burden by least three hours that you** 

### 6 **don't have to keep running that.** 

### 7 **You've already collected the** 

### 8 **data. You show you're stable. You should be** 

### 9 **able to use that data for part one of the, or** 

### 10 **for the stable part of this test. So I think** 

### 11 **if you use that concept, you wouldn't need** 

### 12 **the -- wouldn't need to allow this overlap of** 

### 13 **baseline data and stabilization data.** 

### 14 **Secondly, you had also mentioned** 

### 15 **that for any of the icemaking cycles, you've** 

### 16 **got to be within three degrees of the test** 

### 17 **average for any compressor cycle.** 

### 18 **I feel that's an unnecessary** 

### 19 **requirement, in that when the product is** 

### 20 **making ice, the temperature really depends on** 

### 21 **when the icemaker comes on during a** 

### 22 **compressor cycle.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 61**  **1 At the beginning of a cycle, end**  

### 2 **of a cycle, could greatly affect that** 

### 3 **temperature. So there's really no need. We** 

### 4 **would believe to put a requirement on** 

### 5 **stability during icemaking itself.** 

### 6 **During the stability part, yes.** 

### 7 **We understand the baseline part. We do** 

### 8 **understand the need for that. But during the** 

### 9 **icemaking, you're got several events** 

### 10 **happening, and to put a stability criteria at** 

### 11 **that point we feel is unnecessary.** 

### 12 **MR. BROOKMAN: Additional** 

### 13 **comments here? Nothing additional. All** 

### 14 **right.** 

### 15 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: All right. So** 

### 16 **more comments regarding the test procedure,** 

### 17 **in particular the stability tolerance. It's** 

### 18 **requesting comment on -- DOE is requesting** 

### 19 **comment on the proposal to include a** 

### 20 **temperature stability requirement on** 

### 21 **icemaking test procedures that would require** 

### 22 **that the freezing compartment be measured for**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 62**  **1 any compressor cycle or any icemaking cycle**  

### 2 **within the test period be within three degree** 

### 3 **Fahrenheit of the compartment temperature** 

### 4 **average, as Bill has made comment on that** 

### 5 **already.** 

### 6 **And also the icemaking test** 

### 7 **period duration, DOE is requesting comment on** 

### 8 **adoption of a minimum test period of 24** 

### 9 **hours, assuming that the defrost cycle or bin** 

### 10 **doesn't fill up before then.** 

### 11 **So DOE is also seeking comment on** 

### 12 **its proposal to require that icemaking be** 

### 13 **initiated shortly after the start of a** 

### 14 **compressor after defrost.** 

### 15 **(No response.)** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here.** 

### 17 **Okay.** 

### 18 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So with respect** 

### 19 **to ice mass, DOE is proposing to provide** 

### 20 **clear instructions regarding the correlation** 

### 21 **of ice mass within the icemaking cycle test** 

### 22 **period.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 63**  **1 That would involve a method of**  

### 2 **measuring the total ice produced, determining** 

### 3 **the number of icemaking cycles, and** 

### 4 **calculating the ice per mass per cycle, ice** 

### 5 **mass per cycle, and determining that number** 

### 6 **of icemaking cycles within the icemaking test** 

### 7 **period to determine how much ice was produced** 

### 8 **in the test period that's dictated by** 

### 9 **icemaking cycles.** 

### 10 **So DOE is requesting comment on** 

### 11 **the strategy of measuring ice mass.** 

### 12 **(No response.)** 

### 13 **MR. BROOKMAN: All right. No** 

### 14 **comments here. Okay.** 

### 15 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So products with** 

### 16 **multiple icemakers, DOE is proposing that the** 

### 17 **measurement for icemaking energy be dictated** 

### 18 **by the through the door icemaker. So it's** 

### 19 **requesting comment on the strategy that's** 

### 20 **getting away from what AHAM suggested in its** 

### 21 **draft, and that requesting comment on whether** 

### 22 **products with multiple icemakers exist, other**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 64**  **1 than what was specified in the notice.**  

### 2 **So other configurations, and also** 

### 3 **whether or not DOE should consider modifying** 

### 4 **the proposed test procedure to address these** 

### 5 **products in a different way, and I guess now** 

### 6 **is a good time to hear any thoughts on that.** 

### 7 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Jennifer.** 

### 8 **MS. AMANN: Hi. Jennifer Amann,** 

### 9 **ACEEE. In light of the absence of data about** 

### 10 **the use of the through the door icemaker,** 

### 11 **versus the icemaker -- second icemaker in the** 

### 12 **freezer bin or the freezer compartment, we** 

### 13 **wanted to encourage DOE to obtain that data,** 

### 14 **get better data on usage, and also to** 

### 15 **consider other approaches.** 

### 16 **These approaches could include** 

### 17 **measuring the icemaker of each individually,** 

### 18 **and then doing some kind of a weighted** 

### 19 **average based on their use, you know, or** 

### 20 **there are other mechanisms as well.** 

### 21 **But I think we would like to see** 

### 22 **a test procedure where we can understand what**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 65**  **1 the differences in energy use for the two.**  

### 2 **If someone purchases a refrigerator with two** 

### 3 **icemakers, they're likely to use both of** 

### 4 **them, and we'd like to have that reflected in** 

### 5 **the test.** 

### 6 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 7 **Additional comments?** 

### 8 **(No response.)** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: All right.** 

### 10 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So DOE is** 

### 11 **requiring that the measurement of icemaking** 

### 12 **energy use would not be required until the** 

### 13 **compliance date of future efficiency** 

### 14 **standards.** 

### 15 **So this would allow careful** 

### 16 **evaluation of test procedure changes on the** 

### 17 **measurement of overall energy use for** 

### 18 **icemakers, and also I guess the next energy** 

### 19 **conservation standards would most likely be** 

### 20 **initiated by the six-year lookback rule.** 

### 21 **So the test procedure and energy** 

### 22 **conservation standards would continue to use**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 66**  **1 the 84 kilowatt hour per year placeholder**  

### 2 **until those standards take effect. So DOE's** 

### 3 **testing suggests that 84 kilowatt hours is an** 

### 4 **appropriate energy use contribution for** 

### 5 **icemaking, based on the data available, and** 

### 6 **that using test procedures would --** 

### 7 **Okay. So we're requesting** 

### 8 **comment here on icemaking energy use data, if** 

### 9 **any is available for products that are sold** 

### 10 **with icemakers, using the test procedure** 

### 11 **proposed in its notice. DOE is also seeking** 

### 12 **data on, in order to improve its** 

### 13 **understanding of icemaking energy use per** 

### 14 **pound of ice in typical refrigeration** 

### 15 **products.** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: Jennifer.** 

### 17 **MS. AMANN: Jennifer Amann,** 

### 18 **ACEEE. We'd like to better understand DOE's** 

### 19 **concerns with incorporating the icemaking** 

### 20 **procedures earlier, and potentially making an** 

### 21 **adjustment to the standard if necessary, or** 

### 22 **addressing this in another mechanism.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 67**  **1 We want to just make sure that**  

### 2 **we're clear why DOE wants to wait until the** 

### 3 **next standard. Given the six-year** 

### 4 **requirement for review, any new standard on** 

### 5 **refrigerators wouldn't take effect until** 

### 6 **after 2020. That's quite a long time frame.** 

### 7 **So I think we just want to make** 

### 8 **sure that we understand DOE's concerns, and** 

### 9 **have a chance to potentially address those** 

### 10 **concerns.** 

### 11 **MR. KIDO: Michael Kido, DOE.** 

### 12 **One of the concerns that we did have was that** 

### 13 **this particular procedure would, it's my** 

### 14 **understanding anyway, that it would actually** 

### 15 **impact the measured energy usage of -- it** 

### 16 **would change the measured energy usage of** 

### 17 **these products that would be affected.** 

### 18 **So given that and given the** 

### 19 **complexities involved with the procedure** 

### 20 **itself and integrating it, I think we also** 

### 21 **indicated that there would probably be some** 

### 22 **general familiarity issues that I think the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 68**  **1 manufacturers would need to develop over**  

### 2 **time.** 

### 3 **I think the agency's position is,** 

### 4 **at this point, is to make sure that all the** 

### 5 **different potential problems that might arise** 

### 6 **and taking into account the change in** 

### 7 **measured energy use that would be accompanied** 

### 8 **with the incorporation of this particular** 

### 9 **procedure.** 

### 10 **We want to make sure that** 

### 11 **everything was wrapped up within the context** 

### 12 **of a more comprehensive review of the** 

### 13 **standards themselves. So that's kind of why** 

### 14 **the agency has taken this sort of longer view** 

### 15 **approach with respect to this aspect of the** 

### 16 **test procedure.** 

### 17 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 18 **Additional questions or comments here?** 

### 19 **(No response.)** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, all right.** 

### 21 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So I guess along** 

### 22 **similar lines, DOE is requesting comment on**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 69**  **1 the impacts on energy use measurements of the**  

### 2 **proposed icemaking test procedure, and in** 

### 3 **addition, comments and data supporting any of** 

### 4 **the claimed changes in the measurement.** 

### 5 **DOE is also requesting comment on** 

### 6 **the proposed delay of adoption of the** 

### 7 **laboratory measurement until a future energy** 

### 8 **conservation standard takes effect.** 

### 9 **So I guess we already touched on** 

### 10 **the last, but it would be good to hear about** 

### 11 **the first two, effects on energy use and** 

### 12 **comments on data regarding what energy use** 

### 13 **might be, if it's any different.** 

### 14 **MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas Adin.** 

### 15 **MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. Just** 

### 16 **a quick follow-up to Michael's previous,** 

### 17 **which I suppose to some extent involves this** 

### 18 **question for comment as well.** 

### 19 **But the position that DOE took in** 

### 20 **the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking regarding** 

### 21 **the requirement to measure icemaking energy** 

### 22 **use and incorporation of that energy into the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 70**  **1 standard is really based in large part on the**  

### 2 **data that we had available at the time that** 

### 3 **we wrote the notice and our best** 

### 4 **understanding of the impacts it would likely** 

### 5 **have.** 

### 6 **So it's not to say that any of** 

### 7 **that completely precludes the possibility of** 

### 8 **doing it earlier. But we're limited by what** 

### 9 **we know.** 

### 10 **So the more information we have** 

### 11 **about how these products actually function** 

### 12 **and what the energy use actually looks like** 

### 13 **once it's measured using this test, the** 

### 14 **better we can really assess what the impacts** 

### 15 **are likely to be and what we could feasibly** 

### 16 **do.** 

### 17 **So we made the decision that we** 

### 18 **seemed, we decided seemed best, based on the** 

### 19 **information we had available at the time.** 

### 20 **Thanks.** 

### 21 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 22 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: So the next**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 71**  **1 section of the test procedure amendments will**  

### 2 **be covered by Detlef Westphalen, so I guess** 

### 3 **we'll turn it over to you.** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: Let's take a break** 

### 5 **right now.** 

### 6 **MR. JEAN-LOUIS: Yes.** 

### 7 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. It's 10:30.** 

### 8 **We've made good progress. Let's take a 15** 

### 9 **minute break. Here in the Forrestal** 

### 10 **Building, you must wear a badge, visible.** 

### 11 **There are restrooms on both ends of the hall.** 

### 12 **I think most of you are now aware** 

### 13 **of where the coffee shop is, and we will** 

### 14 **resume at 10:45 right here. We've got a good** 

### 15 **start on the day; more to cover. We'll you** 

### 16 **see you back here then.** 

### 17 **(Whereupon, the above-entitled** 

### 18 **matter went off the record at 10:30 a.m. and** 

### 19 **resumed at 10:49 a.m.)** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Let's start** 

### 21 **back up. Lucas, please.** 

### 22 **MR. ADIN: I think before we**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 72**  **1 launch back into the technical discussion,**  

### 2 **there were just a few general items that I** 

### 3 **wanted to address, and these are a couple of** 

### 4 **things that probably we should covered at the** 

### 5 **outset.** 

### 6 **But I just want to make sure it** 

### 7 **was clear for everyone here, just regarding** 

### 8 **the general intent of our proposal today, and** 

### 9 **what probably would be most helpful for us to** 

### 10 **learn from the folks at this table and on the** 

### 11 **webinar.** 

### 12 **Generally speaking, a lot of the** 

### 13 **proposed amendments in the Notice really are** 

### 14 **intended to provide clarification to a lot of** 

### 15 **parts of the test procedure. We really did** 

### 16 **not intend to significantly change the manner** 

### 17 **in which products are actually tested.** 

### 18 **In many cases, we assume that** 

### 19 **they're tested that way already, and we're** 

### 20 **simply specifying that in the language, or we** 

### 21 **just want to make sure that it's done** 

### 22 **consistently.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 73**  **1 So in many places, we've made an**  

### 2 **assumption that there will be no significant** 

### 3 **impact either on the measured energy use or** 

### 4 **on the burden associated with conducting the** 

### 5 **tests that way.** 

### 6 **So definitely to the extent that** 

### 7 **anyone here believes that there is in fact** 

### 8 **some kind of impact, either on the** 

### 9 **measurement or on the burden, we need to know** 

### 10 **that and the more specific you can be, the** 

### 11 **better. Those are all things that we need to** 

### 12 **consider in any final rule that we write.** 

### 13 **So you know, certainly to the** 

### 14 **extent our assumptions were incorrect or** 

### 15 **anything else, the more we know, the better.** 

### 16 **So I just wanted to make sure that that was** 

### 17 **clear for everyone here. Thanks.** 

### 18 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks.** 

### 19 **That's helpful. That's very helpful, I** 

### 20 **think, and then I'm not sure whether that** 

### 21 **means we want to back up any, or just** 

### 22 **proceed. But certainly that could influence**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 74**  **1 the flavor of comments, I would think.**  

### 2 **Okay. Bill, you want to --** 

### 3 **Lucas, keep going.** 

### 4 **MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE.** 

### 5 **Sorry, just very quickly. I think that in** 

### 6 **part the reason I mentioned that here is** 

### 7 **because of some of the comments that have** 

### 8 **come up already and some of the discussion we** 

### 9 **had during the break, but also because we've** 

### 10 **already covered the one item that we know has** 

### 11 **a significant potential impact on the** 

### 12 **measurements to the items going forward we** 

### 13 **expect either have a known impact that we've** 

### 14 **accounted for, or don't have a significant** 

### 15 **impact that we're aware of.** 

### 16 **So I think that's another reason** 

### 17 **that we thought this would be a good time to** 

### 18 **mention that.** 

### 19 **MR. BROOKMAN: Good. Thanks for** 

### 20 **that. So now the manufacturers, everyone** 

### 21 **here present and listening, they can respond** 

### 22 **in kind. Okay. So now we're going to hear**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 75**  **1 from Detlef Westphalen, and we're going to**  

### 2 **pick up where we left off.** 

### 3 **Test Procedure Amendments** 

### 4 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Okay. Thanks,** 

### 5 **Doug. I'm going to continue discussing the** 

### 6 **test procedure amendments that are proposed.** 

### 7 **The next one is the multiple compressor test** 

### 8 **procedure. Multiple compressor products was** 

### 9 **a topic raised in the last test procedure** 

### 10 **rulemaking.** 

### 11 **Nevertheless, there was some** 

### 12 **issues with the existing test procedure,** 

### 13 **which required separate metering of the two** 

### 14 **compressor systems, and this was a topic that** 

### 15 **was addressed with some waivers that were** 

### 16 **granted, that allowed single monitoring of** 

### 17 **all the energy use in the product.** 

### 18 **The proposal essentially adopts** 

### 19 **the waiver procedure with some changes that** 

### 20 **are not expected to alter the measured energy** 

### 21 **use, as compared with use of the waiver test** 

### 22 **procedure, and we'll get into the details as**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 76**  **1 we go through.**  

### 2 **This slide lists the various** 

### 3 **differences as compared with the waiver test** 

### 4 **procedures. I'm not going to read them off** 

### 5 **one by one. The remaining slides should** 

### 6 **touch on all of these. But if there's any** 

### 7 **that haven’t been touched on when we get** 

### 8 **through, certainly we can go back and take a** 

### 9 **look at the list again.** 

### 10 **First of all, DOE proposes to** 

### 11 **define a multiple compressor product as one** 

### 12 **having more than one compressor. DOE** 

### 13 **requests comments on that.** 

### 14 **(No response.)** 

### 15 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments.** 

### 16 **MR. WESTPHALEN: That one should** 

### 17 **have been cut and dry. I didn't expect many** 

### 18 **comments. DOE proposes to allow test periods** 

### 19 **to be defined by temperature cycles as an** 

### 20 **alternative to compressor cycles. The** 

### 21 **existing test procedure is based primarily on** 

### 22 **compressor cycles.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 77**  **1 However, with multiple compressor**  

### 2 **products, sometimes identifying the** 

### 3 **compressor cycles in reviewing a wattage** 

### 4 **trace is difficult, because of the multiple** 

### 5 **compressor starts and stops.** 

### 6 **And so DOE, through some of the** 

### 7 **discussions with participants associated with** 

### 8 **the waivers, the thought of defining the** 

### 9 **cycles based on temperature cycles was** 

### 10 **mentioned, and hence the proposal allows the** 

### 11 **temperature cycles to define the test** 

### 12 **periods.** 

### 13 **There is a definition or a** 

### 14 **description of how the temperature cycles** 

### 15 **would be defined, that talks about going from** 

### 16 **a temperature minimum to another temperature** 

### 17 **minimum that is within a half a degree of** 

### 18 **that previous temperature minimum.** 

### 19 **This is in order to avoid** 

### 20 **potential, you know, mini-dips in** 

### 21 **temperature, as you go from one minimum to** 

### 22 **the next. Alternatively, the temperature**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 78**  **1 cycles could go from a maximum to a maximum.**  

### 2 **So DOE requests comments on the proposal, to** 

### 3 **allow use of temperature cycles and on the** 

### 4 **details of how these temperature cycles are** 

### 5 **described in the proposal.** 

### 6 **(No response.)** 

### 7 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here.** 

### 8 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Data collection** 

### 9 **is proposed to be required at a rate at least** 

### 10 **once a minute, similar to the proposal for** 

### 11 **the icemaking test procedure. DOE requests** 

### 12 **comments on this proposal.** 

### 13 **(No response.)** 

### 14 **MR. BROOKMAN: Moving on.** 

### 15 **MR. WESTPHALEN: DOE proposes to** 

### 16 **require a stabilization period that is** 

### 17 **similar to the requirement in Appendix A, the** 

### 18 **two hours involving at least one cycle, three** 

### 19 **hours in between and then two hours involving** 

### 20 **at least one cycle, rather than the fixed 24-** 

### 21 **hour period that is in the current test** 

### 22 **procedure waivers. DOE requests comments on**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 79**  **1 this proposal.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 3 **MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE** 

### 4 **Appliances. You did note that the current** 

### 5 **DOE definition is kind of unworkable, in that** 

### 6 **it assumes that each system can be ran** 

### 7 **independently of the other. We recognized** 

### 8 **that and helped to write the waiver that's** 

### 9 **currently in place for many of the companies.** 

### 10 **One thing we see with the** 

### 11 **stability is you don't really have stability** 

### 12 **with multiple compressors, in that you've got** 

### 13 **each, the fresh food, the freezer compressor** 

### 14 **coming on as they need to come on; defrost** 

### 15 **happening when they need to defrost.** 

### 16 **So you don't have what the** 

### 17 **current DOE procedure really likes to** 

### 18 **reference, as far as, you know, a two hour** 

### 19 **period, a three hour period, a two hour** 

### 20 **period, and the test procedures today really** 

### 21 **assume that the compressor cycle you have,** 

### 22 **you'll have the entire year, and you'll just**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 80**  **1 interrupt it every once in a while with a**  

### 2 **defrost event.** 

### 3 **These multiple compressor** 

### 4 **refrigerator-freezers are not like that at** 

### 5 **all. You don't have any discernible pattern** 

### 6 **of compressor operation.** 

### 7 **So that's when we wrote the** 

### 8 **waiver. We put in the 24 hour period, and I** 

### 9 **would be interested to know if DOE has done** 

### 10 **any testing themselves, to see whether the** 

### 11 **stabilization period that they're proposing** 

### 12 **works better than just simply using 24 hours** 

### 13 **for the stability.** 

### 14 **MR. WESTPHALEN: DOE has** 

### 15 **conducted testing of the multiple compressor** 

### 16 **products, probably not as many tests as the** 

### 17 **manufacturers have conducted. It's possible** 

### 18 **we haven't seen quite as many variations on** 

### 19 **the design range that could be considered as** 

### 20 **the manufacturers.** 

### 21 **We certainly would request data** 

### 22 **to review, that would, you know, illustrate**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 81**  **1 some of these issues. In regards to whether**  

### 2 **the existing stabilization approach would** 

### 3 **work better than the 24 hours, it probably** 

### 4 **wouldn't work better.** 

### 5 **It's not clear, on the other** 

### 6 **hand, that it wouldn't work as well. But you** 

### 7 **know, the thought was also that there would** 

### 8 **be the potential for test burden reduction.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Additional** 

### 10 **comments here?** 

### 11 **(No response.)** 

### 12 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 13 **MR. WESTPHALEN: The proposal** 

### 14 **includes test period simplifications where** 

### 15 **appropriate. For instance, use of the one** 

### 16 **part test for products with a single** 

### 17 **automatic defrost that is neither long time** 

### 18 **nor variable.** 

### 19 **Based on the description Bill** 

### 20 **just provided, it is possible that such a** 

### 21 **product does not exist. However, the** 

### 22 **proposal does include that and DOE requests**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 82**  **1 comments on this proposal.**  

### 2 **(No response.)** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: I see no comments.** 

### 4 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Okay.** 

### 5 **Additional test period simplifications were** 

### 6 **appropriate for products where one or no** 

### 7 **cycling compressors exist during normal** 

### 8 **operation during the test. The use of a test** 

### 9 **period that is at least three hours long,** 

### 10 **comprising at least two cycles of the cycling** 

### 11 **compressor system would be allowed.** 

### 12 **This would be, for instance, for** 

### 13 **the first part of the test for a two-part** 

### 14 **test, and DOE requests comments on this** 

### 15 **proposal.** 

### 16 **(No response.)** 

### 17 **MR. BROOKMAN: Nothing here.** 

### 18 **MR. WESTPHALEN: So the duration** 

### 19 **of the test period for the first part of the** 

### 20 **test, DOE proposes a 24-hour first part of** 

### 21 **the test.** 

### 22 **This proposal would require that**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 83**  **1 this test period be defined based on the**  

### 2 **primary compressor system, and in cases in** 

### 3 **which the freezer compressor cycles, that the** 

### 4 **test period would be based on the freezer** 

### 5 **compressor that would defined to be the** 

### 6 **primary compressor.** 

### 7 **And the first part of the test** 

### 8 **would be comprised of whole primary** 

### 9 **compressor cycles. The proposal also would** 

### 10 **not permit multiple individual segments of** 

### 11 **stable operation to be combined to satisfy** 

### 12 **the 24-hour requirement, as detailed in some** 

### 13 **of the discussion in the notice, that there's** 

### 14 **really not any evidence that the so-called** 

### 15 **truncation error that is the reason for the** 

### 16 **24-hour test period duration would be** 

### 17 **resolved, if multiple segments of time were** 

### 18 **combined to add up the 24 hours.** 

### 19 **Alternatively, the proposal** 

### 20 **allows a shorter test duration of 18 hours if** 

### 21 **the defrosts come frequently enough so that** 

### 22 **the 24 hour requirement cannot be met.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 84**  **1 However, as also indicated in the Notice,**  

### 2 **test period durations less than 18 hours** 

### 3 **would then lead to potential variation and** 

### 4 **error in the results that DOE feels would** 

### 5 **start to become significant, and hence DOE** 

### 6 **proposes the 18 hour limitation.** 

### 7 **So this comment box requests** 

### 8 **comment on all of the various aspects of the** 

### 9 **proposal for the first part of the test, the** 

### 10 **24 hour duration allowing a reduction to 18** 

### 11 **hours, the basis of that test period on the** 

### 12 **primary compressor cycles, and also the** 

### 13 **proposal that the first part of the test** 

### 14 **needs to be a single, continuous period.** 

### 15 **(No response.)** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here.** 

### 17 **Okay.** 

### 18 **MR. WESTPHALEN: DOE proposes** 

### 19 **that stabilization for the first part of the** 

### 20 **test be evaluated, based on compartment** 

### 21 **temperature rate of change less than 0.042** 

### 22 **Fahrenheit per hour. As I read this, I am**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 85**  **1 wondering whether there's inconsistency with**  

### 2 **what we said previously.** 

### 3 **The first part of the test would** 

### 4 **need to consist of a period of stable** 

### 5 **operation, defined according to the .042** 

### 6 **Fahrenheit per hour. DOE requests comment on** 

### 7 **this proposal.** 

### 8 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 9 **MR. BROWN: Bill with GE** 

### 10 **Appliances. Again, I would reiterate that** 

### 11 **stability for multiple compressor product is** 

### 12 **not the same as stability for a single** 

### 13 **compressor product.** 

### 14 **If you did achieve this .042** 

### 15 **degrees per hour, it may be more due to luck** 

### 16 **than actually the product is what you'd** 

### 17 **consider to be stable. Again, with both** 

### 18 **compressors operating on their own schedule** 

### 19 **with their own controls, you may see that the** 

### 20 **fresh food is stable and the freezer's not.** 

### 21 **Then you'd keep going further and** 

### 22 **the freezer is stable and the fresh food is**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 86**  **1 not. So that's again why we chose just to**  

### 2 **use a longer period of time, instead of** 

### 3 **trying to invoke this .042 degrees per hour.** 

### 4 **Also, in some of the comments, as** 

### 5 **far as the stability criteria, the way that** 

### 6 **the DOE has worded the criteria today is, you** 

### 7 **know, a minimum of two hours, a minimum of** 

### 8 **three hours, a minimum of two hours for the** 

### 9 **three periods.** 

### 10 **So you could make those periods** 

### 11 **really long, or have a period of time really** 

### 12 **long between the two hour periods, and you** 

### 13 **could mathematically show stability to that** 

### 14 **calculation, but not necessarily have a** 

### 15 **stable product.** 

### 16 **So again, I would reiterate for** 

### 17 **multiple compressor products that probably** 

### 18 **looking at stability with a strict .042** 

### 19 **degrees per hour like you would on a single** 

### 20 **compressor product is -- I don't know. I** 

### 21 **would say it's just not applicable to the** 

### 22 **multiple compressor product.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 87**  **1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.**  

### 2 **Lucas.** 

### 3 **MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. Just** 

### 4 **a quick follow-up question for clarification.** 

### 5 **So it sounds like, based on your comment** 

### 6 **Bill, that a single stability criteria for** 

### 7 **multiple compressor products may not be** 

### 8 **appropriate because of how they operate.** 

### 9 **It's different from single compressor** 

### 10 **products.** 

### 11 **But is it reasonable to say that** 

### 12 **multiple compressor products do get to some** 

### 13 **form of stability that is, you know, unique** 

### 14 **to perhaps each individual product, but at** 

### 15 **least it's something that you know will** 

### 16 **repeat consistently over time, or is it** 

### 17 **something that you can actually identify?** 

### 18 **MR. BROWN: Yes. This is Bill** 

### 19 **with GE again. You may see a repeating** 

### 20 **operation in the freezer, and you may see it** 

### 21 **in the fresh food. But you'd see it on** 

### 22 **different time frames. So where a freezer**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 88**  **1 temperature may be high, the fresh food may**  

### 2 **be low, and you know, if you just picture a** 

### 3 **sine curve, these are sine curves that are** 

### 4 **out of phase with one another.** 

### 5 **So you would never get to a** 

### 6 **point, or you may never get a point where** 

### 7 **you've got both of these meeting this type of** 

### 8 **stability criteria at the same time. So** 

### 9 **instead of trying to search through the data,** 

### 10 **to find if there just happens to be place** 

### 11 **where this occurs, we just chose in our** 

### 12 **waiver to just use a long period of time.** 

### 13 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 14 **MR. WESTPHALEN: For the second** 

### 15 **part of the test of a two-part test, DOE's** 

### 16 **proposal does not require a 24 hour test** 

### 17 **period.** 

### 18 **The second part of the test would** 

### 19 **be conducted for each compressor system that** 

### 20 **undergoes defrost. The test period would** 

### 21 **extend from one period of stable operation** 

### 22 **before the target defrost, to another period**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 89**  **1 of stable operation after the defrost.**  

### 2 **The proposal calls for a half** 

### 3 **degree Fahrenheit compartment temperature** 

### 4 **tolerance for the start and end of the test** 

### 5 **period, consistent with the current Appendix** 

### 6 **A procedure for the second part of the test.** 

### 7 **The evaluation of the test data** 

### 8 **as described in the notice suggests that** 

### 9 **extending the test period using additional** 

### 10 **stable operation on either side of the** 

### 11 **defrost, up to 24 hours, does not reduce the** 

### 12 **truncation error associated with this part of** 

### 13 **the test.** 

### 14 **So a long comment box on the** 

### 15 **second part of the test, but basically this** 

### 16 **comment box is requesting comment on those** 

### 17 **key points associated with the second part of** 

### 18 **the test.** 

### 19 **MR. BROOKMAN: Comments on 3 dot** 

### 20 **I?** 

### 21 **(No response.)** 

### 22 **MR. BROOKMAN: I guess not.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 90**  **1 MR. WESTPHALEN: Then DOE expects**  

### 2 **no change in measured energy use for its** 

### 3 **proposal, as compared to the test procedure** 

### 4 **described in the waivers.** 

### 5 **DOE requests information on any** 

### 6 **products with multiple compressors, other** 

### 7 **than those already covered by the waivers,** 

### 8 **and DOE requests comment on whether the** 

### 9 **proposed test procedure would alter the** 

### 10 **measurements and what would be the magnitude** 

### 11 **of any such change.** 

### 12 **MR. BROWN: This is Bill Brown** 

### 13 **with GE Appliances. What I do have a** 

### 14 **question is your statement is that DOE** 

### 15 **expects no change.** 

### 16 **The question being have you ran,** 

### 17 **performed these tests with the waiver and** 

### 18 **with your method, and what has been your** 

### 19 **experience as far as the energy difference** 

### 20 **between the two tests?** 

### 21 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Well, we haven't** 

### 22 **conducted a methodical study of the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 91**  **1 differences. The differences are such that**  

### 2 **we would expect, in some cases, a slight** 

### 3 **increase in the measurement, in some cases a** 

### 4 **slight decrease in the measurement, and that** 

### 5 **those changes would depend on, you know, some** 

### 6 **of the decisions that say a lab technician** 

### 7 **might make regarding exactly when I start** 

### 8 **this test period, exactly when I end that** 

### 9 **test period.** 

### 10 **But that on overall, there would** 

### 11 **be no expectation of changes to the** 

### 12 **measurement.** 

### 13 **(No response.)** 

### 14 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Regarding** 

### 15 **possible products with multiple compressors,** 

### 16 **DOE is not aware of any such products with** 

### 17 **manual defrost and requests comment on** 

### 18 **whether any such products exist.** 

### 19 **(No response.)** 

### 20 **MR. WESTPHALEN: All right. Then** 

### 21 **we move on to the triangulation test** 

### 22 **procedure. This is proposed as an optional**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 92**  **1 test procedure.**  

### 2 **This method was discussed during** 

### 3 **the previous test procedure rulemaking, but** 

### 4 **was not adopted by DOE as part of that** 

### 5 **rulemaking. DOE proposes to adopt it with** 

### 6 **this rulemaking.** 

### 7 **The triangulation energy** 

### 8 **interpolation basically applies to products** 

### 9 **that have two compartments, a freezer** 

### 10 **compartment and a fresh food compartment.** 

### 11 **Currently, Appendix A calls for two tests for** 

### 12 **such products, and interpolation based on the** 

### 13 **measured temperatures in each of those** 

### 14 **compartments, and then selection of the** 

### 15 **energy calculation of those two** 

### 16 **interpolations that is higher. This is** 

### 17 **illustrated by the figure there.** 

### 18 **Essentially, there are two tests** 

### 19 **illustrated on the left chart on the plot of** 

### 20 **energy use, versus fresh food temperature on** 

### 21 **the right plot energy use, versus freezer** 

### 22 **temperature, and a straight line is drawn**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 93**  **1 between the two points, representing the**  

### 2 **expected energy use as a function of the** 

### 3 **temperatures, and at the standardized** 

### 4 **temperature for each of those types of** 

### 5 **compartments, the test energy is calculated.** 

### 6 **The higher value is used. That's the process** 

### 7 **for the current test procedure.** 

### 8 **Triangular interpretation is** 

### 9 **illustrated in this chart. It involves use** 

### 10 **of three tests, and for each of those three** 

### 11 **tests, there would be a measurement of the** 

### 12 **freezer compartment temperature, a** 

### 13 **measurement of a fresh food compartment** 

### 14 **temperature and an energy measurement, and** 

### 15 **the energy measurements are illustrated by** 

### 16 **the dots around the triangle up above the** 

### 17 **bottom plane.** 

### 18 **The triangular interpolation is** 

### 19 **based on the expectation that a plane** 

### 20 **connecting those three points there would** 

### 21 **describe the energy use for different** 

### 22 **combinations of compartment temperatures.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 94**  **1 Then the test result would be**  

### 2 **determined based on for what combination of** 

### 3 **standardized temperatures would intersect** 

### 4 **with that angled plane.** 

### 5 **DOE proposes to implement** 

### 6 **triangulation in its test procedures as an** 

### 7 **optional test. It would be implemented by** 

### 8 **incorporating by reference the Australian-New** 

### 9 **Zealand standard, that has the procedure very** 

### 10 **well defined in it.** 

### 11 **The standardized temperatures of** 

### 12 **the DOE test would be used as the target** 

### 13 **temperatures, t(XA) and t(XB) of the** 

### 14 **Australian-New Zealand standard, and then the** 

### 15 **energy use EX that is determined by that** 

### 16 **standard would then become the energy use** 

### 17 **calculated, as per Part 6 of the Appendix A** 

### 18 **test procedure.** 

### 19 **The DOE proposal calls for the** 

### 20 **first two of the three tests to be consistent** 

### 21 **with the current method, as described in** 

### 22 **Appendix A, and DOE has also proposed certain**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 95**  **1 amendments to address certification**  

### 2 **requirements, and also for enforcement and** 

### 3 **assessment purposes.** 

### 4 **First, manufacturers would be** 

### 5 **required to report if triangulation is used** 

### 6 **for certification of a particular product,** 

### 7 **and all units within the given model must be** 

### 8 **tested using the same method.** 

### 9 **For example, if you have three** 

### 10 **units that are tested for a certification** 

### 11 **report for a model, they would all be tested** 

### 12 **using triangulation rather than some with a** 

### 13 **two-part, two test and some with** 

### 14 **triangulation.** 

### 15 **Also, DOE proposes that in its** 

### 16 **testing for enforcement and assessment** 

### 17 **purposes, it would use triangulation if** 

### 18 **either triangulation was used for the** 

### 19 **certification initially, or if the results of** 

### 20 **the first two tests conducted differ by more** 

### 21 **than five percent.** 

### 22 **These are the first two tests the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 96**  **1 interpolations associated with the fresh food**  

### 2 **and freezer compartment temperature. If they** 

### 3 **differ by more than five percent, which would** 

### 4 **be an indication that the triangulation** 

### 5 **method may be a more accurate way to** 

### 6 **represent the energy use of that product.** 

### 7 **So DOE requests comments on its** 

### 8 **proposal, on its proposals and all aspects of** 

### 9 **its proposals, including, first of all, its** 

### 10 **intention to include triangulation, and then** 

### 11 **on all of the various details associated with** 

### 12 **its implementation, including the** 

### 13 **certification reporting and the third party** 

### 14 **testing.** 

### 15 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Bill.** 

### 16 **MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE.** 

### 17 **I've long been an advocate of the** 

### 18 **triangulation approach that's been used in** 

### 19 **the Australia-New Zealand standard. I would** 

### 20 **note on your Slide 56 you've got the** 

### 21 **reference incorrect. You've got too many** 

### 22 **fours in it. It should just be 4474, not**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 97**  **1 44474.**  

### 2 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Thank you.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks.** 

### 4 **MR. BROWN: And also thanks for** 

### 5 **calling it Australia-New Zealand instead of** 

### 6 **just Australia. The folks from New Zealand** 

### 7 **get very upset that they do not get mentioned** 

### 8 **in the same vein as Australia.** 

### 9 **(Laughter.)** 

### 10 **MR. BROWN: So a couple of things** 

### 11 **here. With the current, with the DOE** 

### 12 **procedure that's been in place for quite some** 

### 13 **time with just a linear interpolation, I mean** 

### 14 **it forces the manufacturer, if they want to** 

### 15 **use the, get the optimum amount of energy out** 

### 16 **of the test, to basically tune the** 

### 17 **refrigerator to the test.** 

### 18 **For example, today you have 45** 

### 19 **and 5 as your reference temperatures in a** 

### 20 **refrigerator-freezer. So you'd have to keep** 

### 21 **your temperatures between the compartment 40** 

### 22 **degrees apart, and then have it go right**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 98**  **1 through the 45 and 5 line.**  

### 2 **Otherwise, you're either testing** 

### 3 **it too cold for fresh food or too cold for** 

### 4 **freezer. Same thing at 39 and 0. Now you've** 

### 5 **got to keep it 39 degrees apart, and have it** 

### 6 **go right through the 39 and zero point.** 

### 7 **Otherwise, you're testing it too cold for** 

### 8 **fresh food or too cold for freezer.** 

### 9 **The triangulation approach allows** 

### 10 **you to get the energy, as if the** 

### 11 **refrigerator- freezer were acting exactly at** 

### 12 **39 and 0. So I do believe that this is the** 

### 13 **preferred approach. I've ran the Australia** 

### 14 **New Zealand test many times, and am satisfied** 

### 15 **with running that test.** 

### 16 **This test is also incorporated,** 

### 17 **will be incorporated in the new IEC standard,** 

### 18 **that's supposed to be the globally harmonized** 

### 19 **standard that Yashar from NIST and I have** 

### 20 **represented the U.S. on the committee for** 

### 21 **many years, and we've worked to incorporate** 

### 22 **this in their standard as well.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 99**  **1 One other thing that the**  

### 2 **Australia-New Zealand standard allows is when** 

### 3 **a manufacturer would run a test. They're** 

### 4 **also given one other option of running just a** 

### 5 **single point test. If you ran a test below** 

### 6 **the reference temperature, for example, below** 

### 7 **39 and below zero, they are allowed to just** 

### 8 **use that one single point.** 

### 9 **Or they can run two points and** 

### 10 **interpolate, or run three points and do the** 

### 11 **triangulation method. Just point that out** 

### 12 **what is different in their standard versus** 

### 13 **what you're allowing here as well.** 

### 14 **The other piece is you're asking** 

### 15 **for comment as far as the triangulation, that** 

### 16 **a manufacturer must do it for all the tests.** 

### 17 **I'm just wondering whether that's necessary.** 

### 18 **If I show with two points that I pass, on** 

### 19 **another test I run three, why does it matter** 

### 20 **if I ran two on one and three on another?** 

### 21 **Why do I have to run three on** 

### 22 **every single point if I show that I pass? So**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 100**  **1 the comment would be I'm not sure of the**  

### 2 **purpose for forcing a manufacturer who wants** 

### 3 **to use triangulation, to use it on every** 

### 4 **single unit under, that's being tested for** 

### 5 **certification. It seems like you should be** 

### 6 **able to use where you want. Thank you.** 

### 7 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 8 **Additional thoughts on this comment box? Did** 

### 9 **you actually set up the comment box yet?** 

### 10 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Yes.** 

### 11 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Okay, let's** 

### 12 **move on.** 

### 13 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Moving on to** 

### 14 **anti-circumvention language. DOE proposes to** 

### 15 **modify the anti-circumvention language based** 

### 16 **on stakeholder comments submitted during the** 

### 17 **previous test procedure rulemaking.** 

### 18 **The proposal is nearly identical** 

### 19 **to the anti-circumvention provisions of HRF-1** 

### 20 **2008. It's rearranged slightly for clarity** 

### 21 **and consistency with the CFR structure, and** 

### 22 **however, it also adds the clarification that**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 101**  **1 is in the current version of the anti**  

### 2 **circumvention language, that indicates the** 

### 3 **need for a waiver if the test procedure is** 

### 4 **non-representative.** 

### 5 **These revisions would be adopted** 

### 6 **in both the sections for refrigerators and** 

### 7 **refrigerator-freezers and the section for** 

### 8 **freezers within 430.23, and DOE requests** 

### 9 **stakeholder comment on the proposal on these** 

### 10 **modifications.** 

### 11 **(No response.)** 

### 12 **MR. WESTPHALEN: DOE may consider** 

### 13 **additional modifications to the anti** 

### 14 **circumvention language, to account for** 

### 15 **components that operate differently during** 

### 16 **testing.** 

### 17 **The adoption of the modified** 

### 18 **version of the anti-circumvention language** 

### 19 **aims to prevent manufacturers from sensing** 

### 20 **energy test conditions that might be used to** 

### 21 **determine that the product is in an energy** 

### 22 **test, and then adjust the control in order to**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 102**  **1 obtain a favorable result that is not**  

### 2 **representative of field energy use.** 

### 3 **Manufacturers have requested** 

### 4 **clarification on the need for waiver** 

### 5 **petitions as one example of a control type** 

### 6 **that it modifies in a range of conditions** 

### 7 **representative of testing, that is not** 

### 8 **typical for field operation. This is a** 

### 9 **control modification that runs the condenser** 

### 10 **fans at different speeds, depending on** 

### 11 **ambient temperature.** 

### 12 **DOE recognizes that some of these** 

### 13 **control features and control details may not** 

### 14 **lead to non-representative energy test** 

### 15 **measurements, and therefore DOE may consider** 

### 16 **some additional modifications to clarify when** 

### 17 **waivers would be needed.** 

### 18 **DOE seeks comment on the** 

### 19 **potential revisions that it could make to the** 

### 20 **anti-circumvention language, to provide some** 

### 21 **flexibility for such situations.** 

### 22 **(No response.)**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 103**  **1 MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here,**  

### 2 **nothing. Okay.** 

### 3 **MR. WESTPHALEN: We move on to** 

### 4 **incomplete cycling. DOE proposes the use of** 

### 5 **test periods that align with the compressor** 

### 6 **cycles for incomplete cycling products.** 

### 7 **The current test procedure calls** 

### 8 **for use of a 24 hour test period for** 

### 9 **incomplete cycling products. These are** 

### 10 **products that do not complete two compressor** 

### 11 **cycles within 24 hours.** 

### 12 **DOE was concerned about test** 

### 13 **burden associated with potentially growing to** 

### 14 **48 hour test periods, and included in its** 

### 15 **proposal an allowance that if the compressor** 

### 16 **cycles are more than 12 hours long, that a** 

### 17 **single compressor cycle test period could be** 

### 18 **used.** 

### 19 **DOE also, in its proposal** 

### 20 **associated with incomplete cycling products,** 

### 21 **proposes some changes that to some extent are** 

### 22 **corrections of some changes that were made**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 104**  **1 during the last test procedure rulemaking.**  

### 2 **Essentially, this is associated** 

### 3 **with products with automatic defrost that is** 

### 4 **not long-time or variable defrost, that** 

### 5 **require use of the same test periods for** 

### 6 **temperature and energy use measurement.** 

### 7 **The additional proposals here** 

### 8 **clarify that the temperature measurement for** 

### 9 **such products should be made during a period** 

### 10 **of stable operation. That does not include** 

### 11 **the temperature rise associated with the** 

### 12 **defrost.** 

### 13 **So DOE requests comments on its** 

### 14 **proposed amendments to the incomplete cycling** 

### 15 **definition, and also the associated** 

### 16 **modification of the test period for such** 

### 17 **products, from 24 hours to one complete** 

### 18 **compressor cycle, and also on its comments** 

### 19 **regarding altering the test period** 

### 20 **requirements for measurement of temperatures.** 

### 21 **MR. BROOKMAN: Comments on** 

### 22 **incomplete cycling. Bill?**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 105**  **1 MR. BROWN: Yes. This is Bill**  

### 2 **from GE. GE recognizes that this is an issue** 

### 3 **with the current test procedure, and we note** 

### 4 **the same issues that DOE does with how you** 

### 5 **test a product that has a longer than 12 hour** 

### 6 **compressor cycle.** 

### 7 **What we've seen all over the** 

### 8 **world with test labs is that even though the** 

### 9 **DOE's test procedure says to stop the test at** 

### 10 **24 hours, we have not seen a test lab** 

### 11 **actually do that. They would actually go and** 

### 12 **use a whole number of compressor cycles.** 

### 13 **We feel that DOE's definition** 

### 14 **here of using the single cycle for compressor** 

### 15 **cycles greater than 12 hours is acceptable,** 

### 16 **and we'd like to see that change.** 

### 17 **We'd like a couple of comments.** 

### 18 **One is, one comment I have is with the** 

### 19 **stability that you need first, if I had, for** 

### 20 **example, an 18 hour compressor cycle, before** 

### 21 **I even collect the data I'd have to have** 

### 22 **three 18 hour cycles, which would be the two**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 106**  **1 hour-three hour-two hour, and then I would**  

### 2 **run 18 hours after that.** 

### 3 **So in essence to run this, where** 

### 4 **you're looking at a test period that's really** 

### 5 **18 hours, it really takes me four days to run** 

### 6 **that test, just to show that I'm stable.** 

### 7 **Then I go and take an 18 hour compressor** 

### 8 **cycle, which should not be really any** 

### 9 **different than the previous three 18 hour** 

### 10 **cycles you just ran.** 

### 11 **So that just is to show over** 

### 12 **again, if you already showed stability, you** 

### 13 **don't need to test again to get the Part 1 of** 

### 14 **the test.** 

### 15 **Secondly is we feel that this is** 

### 16 **something that needs to be addressed now,** 

### 17 **instead of waiting, because there are** 

### 18 **products on the marketplace that do this.** 

### 19 **Labs seem to be testing a whole** 

### 20 **number of cycles, and I just want to know if** 

### 21 **DOE plans to issue a clarification on this,** 

### 22 **or do they expect manufacturers to ask for**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 107**  **1 waivers from testing this type of product.**  

### 2 **DOE also notes that given where** 

### 3 **you start the 24 hour test, if you start at a** 

### 4 **compressor on cycle or a compressor off** 

### 5 **cycle, you can have wildly different results.** 

### 6 **So in order to make this consistent, I agree** 

### 7 **with DOE's approach, but would like some** 

### 8 **clarification for today's products.** 

### 9 **MR. BROOKMAN: Lucas.** 

### 10 **MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. We** 

### 11 **appreciate that comment very much, and it's** 

### 12 **very useful for us to know what's going on** 

### 13 **out in the real testing world, and to the** 

### 14 **extent we can offer any kind of guidance, we** 

### 15 **certainly will. That's something we'll have** 

### 16 **to figure out on our end.** 

### 17 **But certainly to the extent we** 

### 18 **can try and deal with this sooner rather than** 

### 19 **later, we will. So thank you.** 

### 20 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Next we get to** 

### 21 **mechanical control settings. DOE proposes to** 

### 22 **specify the meaning of the warmest or coldest**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 108**  **1 temperature control settings for mechanical**  

### 2 **controls.** 

### 3 **These are controls that typically** 

### 4 **might have some type of indicator or** 

### 5 **triangle, an arrow and some symbols or some** 

### 6 **numbers, 1-2-3-4-5 or, in the case of Spinal** 

### 7 **Tap, up to 11.** 

### 8 **You know, in some cases you would** 

### 9 **say okay, align the arrow with the furthest** 

### 10 **symbol. But then you might ask okay, well if** 

### 11 **the dial actually moves past that symbol,** 

### 12 **like another ten degrees or 20 degrees or 30** 

### 13 **degrees, is that really the coldest or the** 

### 14 **warmest setting.** 

### 15 **DOE proposes to clarify its** 

### 16 **alignment with the symbols that is the** 

### 17 **appropriate setting for coldest or warmest.** 

### 18 **So DOE requests comment on that proposal.** 

### 19 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 20 **MR. BROWN: So is it DOE's** 

### 21 **opinion that today's test procedure specifies** 

### 22 **to set it at the symbol instead of the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 109**  **1 physical extremes?**  

### 2 **MR. ADIN: Lucas Adin, DOE. I** 

### 3 **think, at least in part, this proposal** 

### 4 **reflects that the test procedure is a bit** 

### 5 **ambiguous about that. So it's likely that** 

### 6 **it's been done either way, depending on the** 

### 7 **product.** 

### 8 **I don't know that I personally** 

### 9 **could characterize which way it's definitely** 

### 10 **supposed to be under the existing language.** 

### 11 **But we're aware that the language is somewhat** 

### 12 **ambiguous. It could be interpreted either** 

### 13 **way, and it probably has been done in either** 

### 14 **of those ways. So I don't know if that** 

### 15 **answers your question, but --** 

### 16 **MR. BROWN: I'm well aware that** 

### 17 **test labs do it both ways. In fact, I had** 

### 18 **one supplier that asked me, after having** 

### 19 **asked two separate task labs, one test lab** 

### 20 **giving the physical extreme answer, the other** 

### 21 **test lab giving the marks on the knob.** 

### 22 **So and it does make a difference.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 110**  **1 I mean the energy associated with temperature**  

### 2 **is not exactly linear. So if you can go** 

### 3 **beyond the extremes, you're in the non-linear** 

### 4 **portion. So the energy will be affected.** 

### 5 **So if you're saying today, then,** 

### 6 **that either way is correct, okay, I would** 

### 7 **understand that. If you say there is no** 

### 8 **correct way, but you intend to make one way** 

### 9 **correct, that's what I'd like to understand.** 

### 10 **MR. ADIN: I think it's probably** 

### 11 **the latter of those two, that it could be** 

### 12 **done either way, and we're trying to specify** 

### 13 **the appropriate way to do it, so that it's** 

### 14 **done consistently across the board.** 

### 15 **I don't know that honestly we'd** 

### 16 **really thought previously about which of** 

### 17 **those two was better, and frankly until these** 

### 18 **issues started coming up, whether we had** 

### 19 **thought about there even being a difference,** 

### 20 **that labs might be doing it one of two** 

### 21 **different ways. But now that we're** 

### 22 **pretty well aware of that, it seems**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 111**  **1 appropriate to specify that one should be**  

### 2 **done consistently, and this proposal reflects** 

### 3 **which one we think is the most appropriate.** 

### 4 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Moving on to** 

### 5 **ambient temperature conditions. The current** 

### 6 **test procedures, including the HRF-1 '79** 

### 7 **and/or 2008 standards that are incorporated** 

### 8 **by reference have various requirements for** 

### 9 **ambient temperature and ambient temperature** 

### 10 **gradients that are not fully consistent** 

### 11 **throughout all those documents.** 

### 12 **DOE proposes certain** 

### 13 **clarifications and requirements for measuring** 

### 14 **ambient temperature, and for demonstrating** 

### 15 **that the temperature gradient is maintained** 

### 16 **during the tests.** 

### 17 **First of all, the clarifications** 

### 18 **indicate that shielding is allowed, but that** 

### 19 **the relocation of sensors that is discussed** 

### 20 **in the test procedures is not allowed. The** 

### 21 **test procedure language that is proposed** 

### 22 **addresses heat from adjacent test units, not**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 112**  **1 just from the condensing unit of the unit**  

### 2 **under test.** 

### 3 **The proposal also requires that** 

### 4 **temperature gradients must be verified during** 

### 5 **testing, based on sensors on both sides of** 

### 6 **the test unit, at heights of two inches, 36** 

### 7 **inches above the floor and then 12 inches** 

### 8 **above the test unit.** 

### 9 **DOE requests comment on all of** 

### 10 **these proposals in regard to the ambient** 

### 11 **temperature and the temperature gradients.** 

### 12 **(No response.)** 

### 13 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here?** 

### 14 **No. Okay. No.** 

### 15 **MR. WESTPHALEN: DOE proposes** 

### 16 **certain definitions associated with defrost** 

### 17 **cycles. Many of these definitions are** 

### 18 **already in the existing test procedures. I** 

### 19 **should say that these terms are already in** 

### 20 **the existing test procedures, but they are** 

### 21 **just not defined formally.** 

### 22 **DOE proposes to adopt**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 113**  **1 definitions. Stable operation is defined to**  

### 2 **exclude any events associated with the** 

### 3 **defrost cycles, and otherwise to be** 

### 4 **consistent with the requirements for** 

### 5 **evaluating stability prior to testing the** 

### 6 **0.042 degree Fahrenheit per hour requirement** 

### 7 **that is in Appendix A, Section 29.** 

### 8 **A stable period of compressor** 

### 9 **operation means a period of stable operation** 

### 10 **of a refrigeration system that has a** 

### 11 **compressor, and there are also definitions** 

### 12 **for pre-cooling and recovery that are very** 

### 13 **consistent with the existing use of those** 

### 14 **terms currently in the test procedure. DOE** 

### 15 **requests comment on these definitions.** 

### 16 **(No response.)** 

### 17 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments.** 

### 18 **MR. WESTPHALEN: I think at this** 

### 19 **stage, we had planned to hand it back over to** 

### 20 **Lucas.** 

### 21 **Other Issues Under Consideration** 

### 22 **MR. ADIN: All right. So a few**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 114**  **1 more items to cover in this area. I'm**  

### 2 **jumping in here, not necessarily because this** 

### 3 **is particularly one of my favorite items, but** 

### 4 **I'm familiar with it.** 

### 5 **So this is a requirement that is** 

### 6 **in both AHAM, HRF-1 1979 procedure and by** 

### 7 **reference the DOE procedure. Freezers have** 

### 8 **to be loaded with spinach packages, frozen** 

### 9 **spinach packages for the testing, and there** 

### 10 **is a specific set of criteria in the AHAM** 

### 11 **procedure about how they're to be arranged,** 

### 12 **and how many are supposed to be in there.** 

### 13 **In many respects, it should seem** 

### 14 **relatively straightforward as to how you** 

### 15 **accomplish that. But believe it or not,** 

### 16 **we've received questions about how that was** 

### 17 **actually accomplished. So we thought it** 

### 18 **prudent at this point to provide a little bit** 

### 19 **more specificity as to how that should be** 

### 20 **done and to specifically require that those,** 

### 21 **the number of packages in the freezer for the** 

### 22 **test be recorded.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 115**  **1 So we do request comment on those**  

### 2 **clarifications, and whether those are** 

### 3 **consistent with the requirements of the AHAM** 

### 4 **procedure.** 

### 5 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 6 **MR. BROWN: I hate to be the only** 

### 7 **one making comments.** 

### 8 **MR. BROOKMAN: We love for you to** 

### 9 **have comments.** 

### 10 **MR. BROWN: GE Appliances agrees** 

### 11 **with the DOE clarifications. In fact, as** 

### 12 **Lucas said, we believe that it's clear that** 

### 13 **this is the way that it should be done to** 

### 14 **begin with, and yet we have seen test labs** 

### 15 **around the world do this differently.** 

### 16 **Some of them will calculate the** 

### 17 **volume of the compartment, calculate the** 

### 18 **volume of a package, and then determine okay,** 

### 19 **this is how many packages can be filled.** 

### 20 **That would only work if you to reduce those** 

### 21 **packages down to dust and try to pour them** 

### 22 **in.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 116**  **1 You may not be able to fit that**  

### 2 **many packages into a compartment. So yes,** 

### 3 **you fit -- this is a lengthy procedure, and I** 

### 4 **think the folks that make test procedures** 

### 5 **will realize this is not a fun thing to do.** 

### 6 **When you have a 25 cubic foot** 

### 7 **chest freezer, you may be putting a 1,000** 

### 8 **spinach packages in there. Then you take** 

### 9 **them all out and put back in 75 percent with** 

### 10 **the appropriate spacing, and to get them to** 

### 11 **the point where the thermocouples should be** 

### 12 **placed.** 

### 13 **So we agree that this should be** 

### 14 **clear, and your efforts here in making this** 

### 15 **explicitly clear we support.** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 17 **MR. BROWN: Thank you.** 

### 18 **MR. BROOKMAN: Additional** 

### 19 **comments here?** 

### 20 **(No response.)** 

### 21 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 22 **MR. ADIN: All right. So the**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 117**  **1 next item here is regarding the minimum**  

### 2 **compressor run time between defrosts.** 

### 3 **For products that have variable** 

### 4 **defrost, the test procedure has some** 

### 5 **specifications for the values that should be** 

### 6 **used to represent the minimum compressor time** 

### 7 **between defrosts and the maximum.** 

### 8 **For the shortest, it's supposed** 

### 9 **to be the shortest compressor run time** 

### 10 **between defrosts that is greater or equal to** 

### 11 **six hours, but less than or equal to 12** 

### 12 **hours.** 

### 13 **Products operating with shorter** 

### 14 **CT(L) values could be expected to have more** 

### 15 **frequent defrost than does consumer energy,** 

### 16 **and so the current procedure sets a minimum** 

### 17 **at six, and in some cases -- well actually, I** 

### 18 **should clarify.** 

### 19 **DOE currently requires in** 

### 20 **certification reports that manufacturers** 

### 21 **report what their CT(L) and CT(M) values** 

### 22 **actually are, and those values are then used**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 118**  **1 in the calculation to determine the product's**  

### 2 **energy use.** 

### 3 **In some cases, DOE has observed** 

### 4 **products where the actual CT(L) value** 

### 5 **observed during the test was less than what** 

### 6 **was certified.** 

### 7 **So this is, at least in part, to** 

### 8 **account for products where either that value** 

### 9 **may have been in error or the product, for** 

### 10 **whatever reason, is operating differently** 

### 11 **than the value that was certified to reflect** 

### 12 **how the unit actually operated during the** 

### 13 **test and what its true energy use is.** 

### 14 **Because if the CT(L) value is in** 

### 15 **actuality shorter than what was certified,** 

### 16 **the energy use might be more, and thus not** 

### 17 **necessarily representative of what the** 

### 18 **certified value might imply. So are there** 

### 19 **any comments on that item?** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob.** 

### 21 **MR. McARVER: I'm going to step** 

### 22 **in for Bill, since he's sorry that he has to**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 119**  **1 do all the commenting. But I'm not going to**  

### 2 **be terribly specific. I just want to mention** 

### 3 **a couple of things that have come up in our** 

### 4 **discussion with members.** 

### 5 **We have some concerns about this** 

### 6 **particular proposal, which we think might** 

### 7 **make it impossible to test products, that** 

### 8 **will have an impact on the repeatability of** 

### 9 **the tests of third party laboratories. So I** 

### 10 **will cryptically say we'll provide more** 

### 11 **detail in our written comments, but this is** 

### 12 **one I wanted to flag.** 

### 13 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks.** 

### 14 **Other comments here?** 

### 15 **(No response.)** 

### 16 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 17 **MR. ADIN: Thank you. Treatment** 

### 18 **of connected products. As I'm sure many or** 

### 19 **all of you are aware, there are new products** 

### 20 **coming online now or relatively soon that** 

### 21 **have the capability to provide connection to** 

### 22 **utilities and demand response capability, and**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 120**  **1 this was addressed fairly recently through**  

### 2 **some efforts through the EnergyStar program,** 

### 3 **to come up with a test procedure for those,** 

### 4 **and to encourage the adoption of features** 

### 5 **like that.** 

### 6 **During that process, it was** 

### 7 **recognized that the DOE test procedure does** 

### 8 **not specifically address how these products** 

### 9 **should be treated during the test. It** 

### 10 **requires that a baseline test be performed** 

### 11 **for the purposes of comparison with connected** 

### 12 **operation, which is just the DOE test.** 

### 13 **So there does need to be a** 

### 14 **provision in the DOE test that addresses how** 

### 15 **that connective component should be treated** 

### 16 **for the purpose of connecting that baseline** 

### 17 **test.** 

### 18 **So DOE proposes that for the** 

### 19 **purpose of the test, the connected component** 

### 20 **be installed, energized and connected to a** 

### 21 **communications network, but that no active** 

### 22 **communications be ongoing during the test.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 121**  **1 So we welcome any comments about**  

### 2 **that proposed provision.** 

### 3 **(No response.)** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments.** 

### 5 **Okay.** 

### 6 **MR. ADIN: All right. The next** 

### 7 **one is product clearances to the wall during** 

### 8 **testing.** 

### 9 **So this is an item that was** 

### 10 **addressed in part in the last test procedure** 

### 11 **rulemaking. There was a little bit more** 

### 12 **specificity added in Appendix A to address** 

### 13 **this. But DOE has since recognized that a** 

### 14 **little bit more specificity might be** 

### 15 **appropriate.** 

### 16 **This proposal is based at least** 

### 17 **in part on some language that was used in the** 

### 18 **IEC procedure, and it's intended to address a** 

### 19 **wider range of potential configurations and** 

### 20 **product characteristics where there might be** 

### 21 **components on the rear of the cabinet that** 

### 22 **extend beyond that rear plane.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 122**  **1 So we wanted to more specifically**  

### 2 **define what constitutes that rear plane, and** 

### 3 **then how you address some of those things** 

### 4 **that might extend behind it. So these points** 

### 5 **summarize what DOE is proposing to use to** 

### 6 **specify those items, and we welcome any** 

### 7 **comments you have on that particular** 

### 8 **proposal.** 

### 9 **(No response.)** 

### 10 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments.** 

### 11 **MR. ADIN: Okay. Relocation of** 

### 12 **shelving. So this item addresses the** 

### 13 **relationship between the placement of the** 

### 14 **thermocouples within the cabinet and** 

### 15 **components such as shelves. It's not** 

### 16 **necessarily just shelves, but really any** 

### 17 **component inside the refrigerated space that** 

### 18 **can be adjusted in position.** 

### 19 **It's to essentially specify that** 

### 20 **where there's a conflict between adjustable** 

### 21 **components and the location of the** 

### 22 **thermocouple, the thermocouple essentially**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 123**  **1 takes precedence. So shelves should be**  

### 2 **adjusted as necessary to achieve the** 

### 3 **thermocouple locations that are specified in** 

### 4 **the test procedure.** 

### 5 **Then we also specified,** 

### 6 **essentially for consistency of placement** 

### 7 **between different tests or test facilities,** 

### 8 **that where those components are relocated,** 

### 9 **that they adhere as closely as possible to** 

### 10 **the other requirements of the AHAM test that** 

### 11 **addresses that, which is even spacing of** 

### 12 **shelves.** 

### 13 **So shelves should be repositioned** 

### 14 **if necessary, but they should be still as** 

### 15 **evenly spaced as possible. Any comments on** 

### 16 **that one?** 

### 17 **(No response.)** 

### 18 **MR. ADIN: Relatively** 

### 19 **straightforward. So this slide addresses a** 

### 20 **few corrections that we identified in the** 

### 21 **language of the test procedure that might be** 

### 22 **appropriate. One is the temperature-setting**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 124**  **1 logic tables in Appendix A. This is**  

### 2 **essentially just correcting some aesthetic** 

### 3 **elements, to make sure that it's clear which** 

### 4 **items correspond to which.** 

### 5 **So it's really not a change in** 

### 6 **the language at all, just correcting the** 

### 7 **appearance of the table. We made some** 

### 8 **proposed corrections to references to the** 

### 9 **Value E in the equations. Again, that's** 

### 10 **another clarifying item.** 

### 11 **For the 7.75 cubic feet cutoff** 

### 12 **for compact refrigeration products, this is** 

### 13 **actually in the product definition in Section** 

### 14 **430.2. Just making a clarification that that** 

### 15 **refers to total refrigerated volume and not** 

### 16 **adjusted volume.** 

### 17 **The definition of defrost cycle** 

### 18 **type, that's actually in the Appendix A test** 

### 19 **procedure, that definition, and we're just** 

### 20 **clarifying that off cycle defrost is in fact** 

### 21 **a form of automatic defrost for the purposes** 

### 22 **of the test procedure and for product**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 125**  **1 classification under DOE's product classes.**  

### 2 **Any questions about those or comments?** 

### 3 **(No response.)** 

### 4 **MR. ADIN: No. Another item** 

### 5 **regarding product certification. DOE is** 

### 6 **proposing to eliminate the requirement to** 

### 7 **report product height in certification** 

### 8 **reports that is currently found in the** 

### 9 **refrigerator and freezer reporting** 

### 10 **requirements in Section 429.14.** 

### 11 **This is to reflect that DOE, in** 

### 12 **its last test procedure rule, eliminated the** 

### 13 **product height cutoff for classification of a** 

### 14 **product as compact, as it would apply to** 

### 15 **products that are designed to comply with the** 

### 16 **September 15, 2014 energy conservation** 

### 17 **standards.** 

### 18 **So essentially the height would** 

### 19 **have nothing to do with its classification as** 

### 20 **compact, for products that are designed to** 

### 21 **comply with those standards. So there's no** 

### 22 **need to report the height. Any questions or**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 126**  **1 comments on that one?**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 3 **MR. BROWN: This is Bill. I did** 

### 4 **have one question. I can't find any place** 

### 5 **where I've had to report the product height.** 

### 6 **If I look at the CCMS template, that's not** 

### 7 **one of the -- that's not one of the items it** 

### 8 **asks for, and even prior to that, I don't** 

### 9 **recall seeing the product type.** 

### 10 **So I was kind of confused then to** 

### 11 **see that you had to stop reporting it, when I** 

### 12 **haven't seen where I've had to on any of the** 

### 13 **DOE templates.** 

### 14 **MR. ADIN: It's technically a** 

### 15 **requirement. I do understand it's not in the** 

### 16 **template. But so I don't know if I can** 

### 17 **necessarily get into why it is or isn't in** 

### 18 **the template itself. But it is in the regs,** 

### 19 **so we're just reflecting that it doesn't need** 

### 20 **to be, essentially.** 

### 21 **So I don't know if that helps** 

### 22 **answer your question at all, but there's no**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 127**  **1 need for it to be in the regulations at all.**  

### 2 **We're going to go ahead and remove it, and** 

### 3 **that's essentially all that this was really** 

### 4 **meant to address.** 

### 5 **MR. BROOKMAN: We have a comment** 

### 6 **online. Paul Griffin has a comment. Paul,** 

### 7 **take yourself off mute.** 

### 8 **MR. GRIFFIN: Hi, this is Paul** 

### 9 **Griffin. Sorry, I have no way of typing in** 

### 10 **the comment box. It just was regarding the** 

### 11 **item on the rear wall clearance.** 

### 12 **I was just going to note that** 

### 13 **although I think we appreciate the need for** 

### 14 **guidance and clarity in how to make that** 

### 15 **determination, I think that we had made, we** 

### 16 **believed that when there are externally** 

### 17 **mounted condensers, that that might** 

### 18 **reasonably be interpreted as the rear wall of** 

### 19 **the unit for determining the clearance.** 

### 20 **We may issue further written** 

### 21 **comments. Obviously, if you measure it from** 

### 22 **the externally-mounted condenser, to the wall**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 128**  **1 versus, you know, to the back frame, there's**  

### 2 **some difference in measured energy.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you.** 

### 4 **MR. ADIN: All right. So the** 

### 5 **next, if there wasn't anything further on the** 

### 6 **previous item, the next one is measurement of** 

### 7 **product volume, and this is another item that** 

### 8 **has come up since the test procedure** 

### 9 **rulemaking. DOE has learned a little bit** 

### 10 **more about how manufacturers actually measure** 

### 11 **volume and what certifications are often** 

### 12 **based upon.** 

### 13 **This is in part an effort to** 

### 14 **allow an approach that DOE deems technically** 

### 15 **acceptable, and in many cases more** 

### 16 **appropriate than physical measurement. This** 

### 17 **is in part due to the physical, or I should** 

### 18 **say the practical difficulties in measuring** 

### 19 **some products.** 

### 20 **Obviously, some products have** 

### 21 **very complicated interior dimensions and** 

### 22 **features and things that are just inherently**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 129**  **1 difficult to measure.**  

### 2 **So other than something onerous** 

### 3 **and difficult like filling it with water,** 

### 4 **there has to be a method that can properly** 

### 5 **account for all of those unusual volumes** 

### 6 **accurately.** 

### 7 **DOE recognizes that this is a** 

### 8 **common practice. It's something that could** 

### 9 **work perfectly well for DOE's purposes, but** 

### 10 **there are certain considerations that have to** 

### 11 **be made to reflect that independent** 

### 12 **verification of that volume may be difficult** 

### 13 **or impossible, depending on the information** 

### 14 **that's available to whomever is doing that** 

### 15 **verification.** 

### 16 **So DOE proposed some verification** 

### 17 **requirements, and these were intended to be** 

### 18 **consistent with the verification process for** 

### 19 **volume that was included in the AHAM** 

### 20 **verification program.** 

### 21 **DOE did some analysis of volume** 

### 22 **measurements and deemed that threshold**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 130**  **1 tolerance to be appropriate. So that's what**  

### 2 **was included. It's essentially a two percent** 

### 3 **tolerance between the volume that is** 

### 4 **certified to DOE using CAD and an independent** 

### 5 **measurement.** 

### 6 **So there are some specific** 

### 7 **verification procedures that are included in** 

### 8 **the proposal in Part 429, and an** 

### 9 **accommodation in the test procedures for the** 

### 10 **use of CAD for certification purposes. Any** 

### 11 **questions or comments on this item at this** 

### 12 **time?** 

### 13 **(No response.)** 

### 14 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here.** 

### 15 **Nope.** 

### 16 **MR. ADIN: This slide actually** 

### 17 **just covers a few more of the details** 

### 18 **regarding the product volume item. Actually,** 

### 19 **I should clarify. This is product volume,** 

### 20 **but a few items beyond just the CAD item.** 

### 21 **DOE has received some questions** 

### 22 **regarding how certain components should be**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 131**  **1 treated for the purpose of the volume**  

### 2 **measurement, and this is in part because the** 

### 3 **HRF-1 2008 language is a little bit broader,** 

### 4 **actually quite a bit broader than the** 

### 5 **previous HRF-1 1979 language that went almost** 

### 6 **component by component, had a lot of diagrams** 

### 7 **and things like that.** 

### 8 **So the new language is somewhat** 

### 9 **more categorical, and so there were some** 

### 10 **questions that arose as to which categories** 

### 11 **or exceptions within that language certain** 

### 12 **components fell, and how they should be** 

### 13 **treated.** 

### 14 **So DOE has issued some guidance** 

### 15 **on how to treat those components. One of** 

### 16 **them is air ducts. That's the first one** 

### 17 **that's mentioned. Another was water tanks** 

### 18 **that are used for chilling of water, for the** 

### 19 **water dispenser.** 

### 20 **So DOE proposed to add some** 

### 21 **language to Appendices A and B that would** 

### 22 **more specifically, ideally more specifically**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 132**  **1 address things like that, so that it's clear**  

### 2 **which categories within the HRF-1 language** 

### 3 **those would fall.** 

### 4 **That included the incorporation** 

### 5 **of a definition for a through the door ice** 

### 6 **water dispenser, which DOE didn't previously** 

### 7 **have. So that might provide a little bit** 

### 8 **more clarification in this area and others** 

### 9 **potentially.** 

### 10 **So we welcome any comments on** 

### 11 **these specific clarifications.** 

### 12 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Nathan.** 

### 13 **MR. MOUW: Yes. Nathan Mouw from** 

### 14 **Whirlpool. I guess more of a clarifying** 

### 15 **question to ask. You just mentioned the idea** 

### 16 **of air ducts and water assemblies, and I** 

### 17 **recognize that water assembly or water** 

### 18 **reservoirs are treated differently, whether** 

### 19 **they're integral to the dispenser or not.** 

### 20 **My question is are those the only** 

### 21 **two clarifications that are being made in** 

### 22 **this proposal?**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 133**  **1 MR. ADIN: So I don't know that I**  

### 2 **want to say that it's limited specifically to** 

### 3 **those two types of components. I think the** 

### 4 **intent really was to provide some more** 

### 5 **clarification about the general categories of** 

### 6 **components that would be excluded or included** 

### 7 **in the volume, and when I say that, I mean as** 

### 8 **far as which components are technically part** 

### 9 **of the ice water dispenser or within the** 

### 10 **refrigerated space, and thus must be** 

### 11 **included. So it's more of a** 

### 12 **clarification about what those exemptions are** 

### 13 **supposed to apply to. These are just two** 

### 14 **examples that happened to come up, and that** 

### 15 **prompted the DOE to propose some specifying** 

### 16 **language.** 

### 17 **But I don't know that it's** 

### 18 **necessarily limited to those two. I don't** 

### 19 **know of any other components offhand that** 

### 20 **might be affected by this. But those are the** 

### 21 **two that prompted DOE to propose some** 

### 22 **amendment.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 134**  **1 MR. BROOKMAN: Nathan, do others**  

### 2 **come to mind?** 

### 3 **MR. MOUW: So I'll just read a** 

### 4 **comment in the NOPR. I'm looking at the pre** 

### 5 **release. It's on page 163.** 

### 6 **The comment is "However, since** 

### 7 **the volume measurement method generally** 

### 8 **excludes volumes occupied by components that** 

### 9 **are not intended to be removed by the user,** 

### 10 **and that occupy space that cannot be used for** 

### 11 **storage," and then it goes on to talk about** 

### 12 **air ducts.** 

### 13 **This is a specific commentary in** 

### 14 **the discussion about air ducts. But that** 

### 15 **comment is perhaps different than an** 

### 16 **interpretation that we've had in the AHAM** 

### 17 **HRF-1. So I was just hoping to get some** 

### 18 **feedback on what is meant by that. So** 

### 19 **hopefully you can help us with that.** 

### 20 **MR. ADIN: I don't know that I** 

### 21 **could comment specifically on that, without** 

### 22 **knowing how the interpretations on AHAM's**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 135**  **1 side or its member side differ from DOE's.**  

### 2 **Maybe I just misunderstood what you meant by** 

### 3 **the last question.** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: Nathan.** 

### 5 **MR. MOUW: Sure. This is Nathan** 

### 6 **from Whirlpool again. As I read that** 

### 7 **statement, it seems maybe a bit contrasting** 

### 8 **to the third bullet point on the slide, which** 

### 9 **says the measured volume -- it's pretty clear** 

### 10 **on the slide that it says "The measured** 

### 11 **volume shall include all spaces within the** 

### 12 **insulated volume of each compartment, except** 

### 13 **for the volumes that must be deducted in** 

### 14 **accordance with Section 4.2 of HRF-1."** 

### 15 **And of course then if you review** 

### 16 **HRF-1, it's pretty specific. So reading that** 

### 17 **bullet point it seems clear, but then reading** 

### 18 **this commentary in the NOPR, it just puts** 

### 19 **some uncertainty into what would be included** 

### 20 **and excluded from the volume calculation.** 

### 21 **MR. ADIN: I mean I think in** 

### 22 **general what we were trying to do is really**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 136**  **1 to try and simplify the way that people think**  

### 2 **about what's supposed to be included and what** 

### 3 **isn't, and this was an effort to try and do** 

### 4 **that.** 

### 5 **So it's everything within that** 

### 6 **insulated boundary, where you treat the** 

### 7 **insulating hump of the through the door ice** 

### 8 **dispenser as part of that, and so everything** 

### 9 **inside that is not removable and it is part** 

### 10 **of the refrigerated space that's included,** 

### 11 **unless HRF-1, Section 4.2.2 says specifically** 

### 12 **to exclude it.** 

### 13 **So I think we were hoping that it** 

### 14 **would be simpler to think about it that way,** 

### 15 **you know. To the extent we were wrong about** 

### 16 **that and there's still ambiguity or any kind** 

### 17 **of conflict between the HRF-1 language or** 

### 18 **people's general understanding of what that** 

### 19 **means, I mean we'd like to know that.** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: Or if they need** 

### 21 **more specificity.** 

### 22 **MR. ADIN: Right, yes. It seemed**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 137**  **1 relatively clear to us at the time, but I**  

### 2 **understand that potentially there's some** 

### 3 **nuances in the language that made this a** 

### 4 **little bit more confusing than we intended it** 

### 5 **to be. So to the extent that's the case, we** 

### 6 **want to be able to correct it.** 

### 7 **MR. BROWN: This is Bill from GE.** 

### 8 **Specifically, then, I want to address this** 

### 9 **question of the water tank. Let's say there** 

### 10 **is a water tank within the refrigerated** 

### 11 **space. It does feed the dispenser, but** 

### 12 **they're not integrally tied to one another.** 

### 13 **MR. ADIN: Right.** 

### 14 **MR. BROWN: Would this say to** 

### 15 **include that space or to not? I'm having** 

### 16 **difficulty, even with your last sentence** 

### 17 **here. I kind of read it one way. Again, I** 

### 18 **would say that the way that the HRF-1** 

### 19 **Committee looked at this is like you said,** 

### 20 **it's inside the refrigerated space.** 

### 21 **It's not one of the three** 

### 22 **bulleted items that you're talking about.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 138**  **1 Therefore, it should be included. So I just**  

### 2 **wanted to just clarify from DOE's standpoint** 

### 3 **whether that type of device would be** 

### 4 **included.** 

### 5 **MR. ADIN: So our interpretation** 

### 6 **is that the water tank that is not integral** 

### 7 **to the icemaker or through the door ice water** 

### 8 **dispenser and within the refrigerated space** 

### 9 **should be included. Is that what you're** 

### 10 **asking? Okay.** 

### 11 **MR. BROOKMAN: So all this** 

### 12 **discussion is a precursor to the comment box** 

### 13 **of Issue 16, and maybe we've covered it now.** 

### 14 **Just push that up there and ask additional** 

### 15 **comments, because the preceding discussion** 

### 16 **was useful.** 

### 17 **(No response.)** 

### 18 **MR. BROOKMAN: No additional** 

### 19 **comments here? Okay.** 

### 20 **MR. ADIN: All right. This slide** 

### 21 **addresses another item regarding** 

### 22 **certification data in Section 429.14(b),**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 139**  **1 which is the part of the sampling and**  

### 2 **certification requirements for refrigerators,** 

### 3 **that specifies the data that manufacturers** 

### 4 **have to report to DOE.** 

### 5 **There are two separate** 

### 6 **paragraphs. One is data that is explicitly** 

### 7 **made publicly available and the other that is** 

### 8 **not.** 

### 9 **So DOE is making some amendments** 

### 10 **or proposing to make some amendments to that** 

### 11 **section, to specify that certain items are in** 

### 12 **fact to be treated as public, and that is** 

### 13 **whether a product has variable defrost,** 

### 14 **whether it has an anti -- actually, it should** 

### 15 **be whether it has variable anti-sweat heater** 

### 16 **control, and whether alternate temperature** 

### 17 **sensor locations were used during testing.** 

### 18 **So the specific values associated** 

### 19 **with variable defrost control the CT(L) and** 

### 20 **CT(M) values, and the variable anti-sweat** 

### 21 **heater control wattages would still remain in** 

### 22 **the non-public section. This would just be**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 140**  **1 whether the product has those features. Any**  

### 2 **questions or comments about that item before** 

### 3 **we move on?** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: Bill.** 

### 5 **MR. BROWN: So same thing then** 

### 6 **with the variable defrost. The CT(L)s and** 

### 7 **CT(M) would still be confidential; is that** 

### 8 **correct?** 

### 9 **MR. ADIN: Correct. DOE would** 

### 10 **not be making those values public, or the** 

### 11 **variable anti-sweat heater control wattages.** 

### 12 **MR. BROOKMAN: Additional** 

### 13 **questions or comments?** 

### 14 **(No response.)** 

### 15 **MR. ADIN: All right. So the** 

### 16 **next several items are some additional issues** 

### 17 **that DOE is raising for consideration.** 

### 18 **I don't necessarily have test** 

### 19 **procedure amendments proposed for them, but** 

### 20 **DOE is raising these issues at least while** 

### 21 **either in part because of questions that** 

### 22 **DOE's received, or because of observations**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 141**  **1 about certain product performance.**  

### 2 **The first deals with products** 

### 3 **that are designed to be built in. There are** 

### 4 **a number of product classes that the DOE** 

### 5 **standards address that are for products** 

### 6 **specifically designed for use in a built-in** 

### 7 **condition, where they're integral to** 

### 8 **cabinetry, fastened to the walls or floor.** 

### 9 **Obviously, products like that are** 

### 10 **configured differently than a conventional** 

### 11 **free-standing refrigerator or freezer. Their** 

### 12 **heat dissipation characteristics may very** 

### 13 **likely be quite a bit different, and in fact** 

### 14 **the energy conservation standards do reflect** 

### 15 **that they are likely to be different.** 

### 16 **But that does potentially raise** 

### 17 **some questions about testing, and so DOE is** 

### 18 **interested in comments or data regarding the** 

### 19 **potential difference in how products like** 

### 20 **this might perform if they were to be tested** 

### 21 **in a built-in configuration, where they** 

### 22 **actually have a physical enclosure around**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 142**  **1 them for the test.**  

### 2 **DOE did do a small amount of** 

### 3 **investigation of this issue with a few** 

### 4 **different products, which as we pointed out** 

### 5 **have slightly different configurations as far** 

### 6 **as how the heat is rejected from the** 

### 7 **condenser, and the impact that that may have** 

### 8 **had on their measured energy use.** 

### 9 **So and as we've pointed out, the** 

### 10 **enclosures that were used for these tests** 

### 11 **were consistent with the UL Standard 250** 

### 12 **provisions, that specify how to do that. So** 

### 13 **conceivably there is a consistent way that** 

### 14 **you could apply these provisions and build an** 

### 15 **enclosure like that.** 

### 16 **So as I mentioned, there isn't a** 

### 17 **specific proposal to require this. This is** 

### 18 **just an issue that DOE is investigating and** 

### 19 **is interested in receiving any comments or** 

### 20 **data on, both the extent to which this may** 

### 21 **affect the energy use of particular products** 

### 22 **just generally or based on their design, and**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 143**  **1 the test burden that may be associated with**  

### 2 **doing tests like this.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: Jennifer.** 

### 4 **MS. AMANN: Jennifer Amann,** 

### 5 **ACEEE. We would be supportive of DOE** 

### 6 **incorporating testing in a built-in** 

### 7 **condition, particularly for built-in products** 

### 8 **that are only going to be used in that built** 

### 9 **in configuration in the field by their** 

### 10 **design, given that there is a specific design** 

### 11 **element that leads to differences in the** 

### 12 **product's performance.** 

### 13 **We think that should be reflected** 

### 14 **in the product's ability to meet the** 

### 15 **standard, as well as in the information** 

### 16 **that's provided to consumers on energy** 

### 17 **consumption. I believe that this is** 

### 18 **something that has also been looked at in** 

### 19 **testing done by Consumers Union, and that** 

### 20 **they have found similar findings, and they** 

### 21 **may have additional data that would be useful** 

### 22 **for you.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 144**  **1 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.**  

### 2 **MR. ADIN: Thank you.** 

### 3 **MR. BROOKMAN: So there you see** 

### 4 **the comment box. Additional thoughts at this** 

### 5 **time, and noting that the Department would** 

### 6 **also like to receive your comments in writing** 

### 7 **on this one. Yes, Nathan.** 

### 8 **MR. MOUW: This is Nathan from** 

### 9 **Whirlpool. So as I look at the information** 

### 10 **that's been presented on Slide 77, we do** 

### 11 **recognize that the heat rejection technology** 

### 12 **can have an impact on measured energy, if** 

### 13 **measured in a built-in condition.** 

### 14 **So perhaps we could have some** 

### 15 **insight on if a decision is made to move** 

### 16 **forward with this testing technique, what** 

### 17 **would be the process in moving forward for** 

### 18 **that, and perhaps some idea of schedules** 

### 19 **associated with that.** 

### 20 **MR. ADIN: So I think** 

### 21 **realistically it's probably too early for us** 

### 22 **to make any kind of specific statements about**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 145**  **1 how we would address this if we were to**  

### 2 **address it. It's something that we've** 

### 3 **observed in a few tests.** 

### 4 **Admittedly, our sample is** 

### 5 **relatively small. We're really only at an** 

### 6 **initial stage of evaluating the potential** 

### 7 **impacts of a change to the test like this.** 

### 8 **So the most I can probably say at this point** 

### 9 **is that it's too early for us to say.** 

### 10 **But how we decide to proceed will** 

### 11 **be based in large part on the comments that** 

### 12 **we receive on this item, and the burden that** 

### 13 **it is likely to impose as a result of the** 

### 14 **differences in testing, the extent to which** 

### 15 **it's likely to affect the measurement of** 

### 16 **energy use for a lot of these products.** 

### 17 **As you can see, for a couple** 

### 18 **anyway, in the sample that we tested, there** 

### 19 **probably is very little or no impact on that,** 

### 20 **on the measurement, at least as far as we** 

### 21 **understand, because of the way that they're** 

### 22 **configured.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 146**  **1 But for others it might, and so**  

### 2 **we're interested in knowing the proportion of** 

### 3 **the market that might likely be affected, and** 

### 4 **the extent to which those products might** 

### 5 **likely be affected, because that will help us** 

### 6 **determine how appropriate it might be to** 

### 7 **pursue a change to the test procedure that** 

### 8 **addresses this item, and the burden is** 

### 9 **obviously also a big part of that** 

### 10 **consideration. So it's not something that we** 

### 11 **can say right now, but --** 

### 12 **MR. BROOKMAN: Additional** 

### 13 **thoughts or comments before I move on?** 

### 14 **(No response.)** 

### 15 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 16 **MR. ADIN: All right. So the** 

### 17 **next issues deal with compliance with some of** 

### 18 **the other EPCA requirements associated with** 

### 19 **test procedure amendments, and for that, I'm** 

### 20 **going to turn back over to Detlef Westphalen.** 

### 21 **Thanks.** 

### 22 **Compliance With Other EPCA Requirements**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 147**  **1 MR. WESTPHALEN: Doug, I was**  

### 2 **going to ask, I would assume at this point we** 

### 3 **might just push on and try to get through** 

### 4 **before lunch?** 

### 5 **MR. BROOKMAN: Correct, yes.** 

### 6 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Yes. So** 

### 7 **compliance and other EPCA requirements. Some** 

### 8 **of these issues, if you've read a certain** 

### 9 **number of test procedure notices, some of the** 

### 10 **issues involved are familiar. Test burden,** 

### 11 **changes in measured energy use and stand-by** 

### 12 **and off mode energy use.** 

### 13 **First of all, test burden. DOE** 

### 14 **tentatively concludes that other than the** 

### 15 **icemaking test, none of the proposed changes** 

### 16 **have a significant impact on test burden.** 

### 17 **Many of the proposed test** 

### 18 **procedure amendments are clarifications,** 

### 19 **small changes, different view of test** 

### 20 **periods, things of that nature that DOE feels** 

### 21 **would not alter the amount of effort required** 

### 22 **to conduct the test.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 148**  **1 The new icemaking test procedure**  

### 2 **would increase the test burden. First of** 

### 3 **all, some upgrade of the facilities, not** 

### 4 **major upgrade providing a water supply, and** 

### 5 **DOE has provided an initial estimate of an** 

### 6 **additional $800 per testing facility.** 

### 7 **Stakeholders are welcome to comment on that.** 

### 8 **Additional instrumentation, for** 

### 9 **instance, a scale to measure the ice mass.** 

### 10 **Again, a modest cost, and also additional** 

### 11 **test time. DOE feels that the additional** 

### 12 **test time is really the major test burden** 

### 13 **impact of the proposal.** 

### 14 **DOE estimates that that would** 

### 15 **represent perhaps a 50 percent increase in** 

### 16 **the test time and, as provided, a cost** 

### 17 **estimate per test and per certified product,** 

### 18 **assuming three units tested per product.** 

### 19 **So DOE seeks comment on its** 

### 20 **preliminary assessment of the test burden,** 

### 21 **and welcomes any information regarding** 

### 22 **potential variations that manufacturers might**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 149**  **1 expect from the initial estimates.**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Comments here?** 

### 3 **(No response.)** 

### 4 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 5 **MR. WESTPHALEN: The regulatory** 

### 6 **flexibility review. DOE must determine** 

### 7 **whether a modification to the proposed test** 

### 8 **procedures would result in a significant** 

### 9 **impact on a substantial number of small** 

### 10 **entities.** 

### 11 **We just talked about the test** 

### 12 **burden associated primarily with the testing** 

### 13 **for certification for the icemaking test.** 

### 14 **The cutoff for small entities for** 

### 15 **refrigeration products has increased to 1,000** 

### 16 **employees.** 

### 17 **DOE identified a few small** 

### 18 **businesses, but only one that manufactures** 

### 19 **products that are sold with automatic** 

### 20 **icemakers, and hence that would be subject to** 

### 21 **the additional testing requirements or the** 

### 22 **additional requirements that would impose**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 150**  **1 additional test burden.**  

### 2 **DOE determined that the proposed** 

### 3 **test procedure would not have a significant** 

### 4 **economic impact on a substantial number of** 

### 5 **small entities.** 

### 6 **DOE reviewed industry average** 

### 7 **figures for research and development** 

### 8 **expenditures, provided some calculations that** 

### 9 **are detailed in the Notice of the impact,** 

### 10 **which was then approximated to be five** 

### 11 **percent of the annual research and** 

### 12 **development budget, a one-time cost for** 

### 13 **certification for that one small business** 

### 14 **manufacturer.** 

### 15 **These conclusion are based on** 

### 16 **available data, and DOE welcomes additional** 

### 17 **data that it might use to refine its** 

### 18 **estimates. So DOE requests comment on these** 

### 19 **preliminary findings regarding the impacts on** 

### 20 **small businesses.** 

### 21 **(No response.)** 

### 22 **MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 151**  **1 Okay.**  

### 2 **MR. WESTPHALEN: Changes in** 

### 3 **measured energy use. This has been** 

### 4 **discussed, as we have been discussing the** 

### 5 **individual items. DOE concludes that changes** 

### 6 **in the energy use measurement associated with** 

### 7 **the proposed test procedure are associated** 

### 8 **primarily with the icemaking test procedure,** 

### 9 **and otherwise are minimal.** 

### 10 **DOE is proposing to require use** 

### 11 **of the icemaking test procedure when the next** 

### 12 **round of energy conservation standards after** 

### 13 **2014 take effect, and DOE requests comments** 

### 14 **on its preliminary assessment, that aside** 

### 15 **from the icemaking test procedure that the** 

### 16 **changes in the measured energy would be** 

### 17 **minimal.** 

### 18 **MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob.** 

### 19 **MR. McARVER: This is Rob McArver** 

### 20 **with AHAM. I'll just reiterate a point we** 

### 21 **made earlier. But AHAM believes that some of** 

### 22 **the proposal, the changes in the proposal**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 152**  **1 could impact measured energy, and we're**  

### 2 **investigating this, discussing it with** 

### 3 **members and we'll propose, we'll provide DOE** 

### 4 **with data and comments as appropriate.** 

### 5 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, okay.** 

### 6 **Yes, Nathan.** 

### 7 **MR. MOUW: This is Nathan from** 

### 8 **Whirlpool. To just add to what Rob said, as** 

### 9 **discussed we're -- I think some of these test** 

### 10 **procedure amendments are trying to do one of** 

### 11 **three things.** 

### 12 **Those three things are improve** 

### 13 **accuracy, improve repeatability or improve** 

### 14 **reproducibility. One could argue that if two** 

### 15 **of those three are trying to be done, that** 

### 16 **there is a real impact on measured energy.** 

### 17 **As an example, when I think of** 

### 18 **accuracy, I think of it as trying to better** 

### 19 **represent use in the home. That's kind of** 

### 20 **our gauge for accuracy for these test** 

### 21 **procedures. That would mean that on average,** 

### 22 **let's say the test procedure increases**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 153**  **1 measured energy by two percent, just as an**  

### 2 **example.** 

### 3 **An example of reproducibility I** 

### 4 **think is the example that was brought up by** 

### 5 **the gentleman regarding fixed condensers and** 

### 6 **its placement to the wall.** 

### 7 **You know, that is an example** 

### 8 **where if a laboratory, whether it be an** 

### 9 **enforcement laboratory or a manufacturer, is** 

### 10 **interpreting it as that condenser is not** 

### 11 **essentially placed up against the wall.** 

### 12 **Although we can call it a** 

### 13 **clarification, really for that lab, for that** 

### 14 **manufacturer, that enforcement lab, that is a** 

### 15 **real change is how energy is being measured.** 

### 16 **So a little clarity and clarification is** 

### 17 **good. In the context of** 

### 18 **reproducibility, that is a change in measured** 

### 19 **energy for those products in that** 

### 20 **manufacturer, that enforcement lab. Thanks.** 

### 21 **MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you.** 

### 22 **Additional comments?**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 154**  **1 (No response.)**  

### 2 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay.** 

### 3 **MR. WESTPHALEN: The last topic** 

### 4 **is standby and offload energy use. As a lot** 

### 5 **of you are aware, EPCA requires DOE to** 

### 6 **consider whether its test procedures for** 

### 7 **residential products include measurement of** 

### 8 **standby off mode energy use and, if not, to** 

### 9 **make modifications so that these energy use** 

### 10 **modes are addressed.** 

### 11 **The existing test procedures and** 

### 12 **the test procedures amended as proposed do** 

### 13 **already consider the energy use associated** 

### 14 **with standby and off modes, and hence DOE** 

### 15 **concludes that it's consistent with the EPCA** 

### 16 **requirement for the standby and off modes.** 

### 17 **MR. BROOKMAN: Comments on** 

### 18 **standby and energy off mode?** 

### 19 **(No response.)** 

### 20 **MR. BROOKMAN: No, no comments.** 

### 21 **Okay. So then now is an opportunity for** 

### 22 **anybody that wishes to make concluding**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 155**  **1 remarks, summary statements of other issues**  

### 2 **you wish to raise that haven't been covered** 

### 3 **sufficiently in the course of today's** 

### 4 **meeting?** 

### 5 **(No response.)** 

### 6 **MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Then for my** 

### 7 **part, I'll thank you. We covered a lot of** 

### 8 **ground today, and I'll turn it back to Lucas** 

### 9 **Adin for closing remarks.** 

### 10 **Oh and finally, each of you** 

### 11 **received a copy of an evaluation form. It's** 

### 12 **the last page in your packet. If you'll take** 

### 13 **just a few seconds or a minute and fill it** 

### 14 **out, that would be helpful.** 

### 15 **Conclusions and Closing Remarks** 

### 16 **MR. ADIN: All right, thanks** 

### 17 **Doug. Just a few last closing items. These** 

### 18 **are just some of the standard things that we** 

### 19 **cover at the end of each meeting.** 

### 20 **This public meeting was recorded,** 

### 21 **and there will be a transcript available** 

### 22 **relatively shortly, that we'll make available**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 156**  **1 on DOE's website, and will become part of the**  

### 2 **docket for this rulemaking, part of the** 

### 3 **public record.** 

### 4 **For written comments, the comment** 

### 5 **period closes September 23rd. Comments may** 

### 6 **be submitted as shown below. There is a** 

### 7 **rulemaking email inbox. That's probably the** 

### 8 **most expeditious way to get comments to us.** 

### 9 **You can submit them by mail, although keep in** 

### 10 **mind that they go through a very rigorous** 

### 11 **physical screening process.** 

### 12 **So they may get here quite a bit** 

### 13 **later and not necessarily completely** 

### 14 **physically intact, and interestingly enough,** 

### 15 **we still offer the opportunity for a courier** 

### 16 **delivery.** 

### 17 **If you have any questions about** 

### 18 **the issues raised in this rulemaking or** 

### 19 **really anything else related to DOE test** 

### 20 **procedures for these products, the standards,** 

### 21 **certification and compliance, anything to** 

### 22 **that effect, you can email the address shown**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 157**  **1 on the screen.**  

### 2 **They all come to me, so I'll deal** 

### 3 **with them, and we offered a couple of other** 

### 4 **links for information on DOE's standards and** 

### 5 **test procedures for these products, this** 

### 6 **rulemaking. So those are good places for** 

### 7 **more information if you need it.** 

### 8 **I'll just close by thanking you** 

### 9 **again for coming today, for those on the** 

### 10 **webinar, for your participation. We do** 

### 11 **understand that this is a busy month for a** 

### 12 **lot of you. So we very much appreciate your** 

### 13 **willingness to participate today, and we also** 

### 14 **appreciate that it's been a relatively short** 

### 15 **time since the publication of the Notice.** 

### 16 **So you may need more time to** 

### 17 **fully digest all the things that we've** 

### 18 **proposed. So certainly to the extent you** 

### 19 **need additional clarification on any of the** 

### 20 **items we've discussed today, please let us** 

### 21 **know. I think that's about it. Thanks very** 

### 22 **much.**

### 202-234-4433 **Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 158**  **1 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Safe**  

### 2 **travels.** 

### 3 **(Whereupon, at 12:23 p.m., the** 

### 4 **meeting was adjourned.)** 

### 5 **6 7**  **8 9**  **10 11**  **12 13**  **14 15**  **16 17**  **18 19**  **20 21**  **22**202-234-4433 Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. Page 159 A ability 8:20 37:3 143:14 able9:17 20:17

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23:10 125:16 151:13 2020 67:6 21 3:7 23rd 12:21 15:12 156:5 24 3:8 56:1 62:8

78:20 80:8,12 81:3 83:18,22 84:10 88:16 89:11 103:8,11 104:17 105:10 107:3 24-hour 82:20

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35:13,19NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of:

Before:

Date:

Place:

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

----------------------- Court Reporter 180

Test Procedures for Refrigerators, Refrigerator Freezers and Freezers

US DOE

07-25-13

Washington, DC