# rUNITE D STATE S O F AMERIC A DEPARTMEN T O F TRANSPORTATIO N OFFIC E O F HEARING S WASHINGTON , D.C .

I NTH E MATTE RO F PRECISIO NDISPLAY S AN D TOOL S FAADOCKE T NO . CP09AL000 8 (Civi l Penalt yAction ) DM S NO . FAA-2009-073 3 

# EIVE D SE P11201 0 

## HtAWN Q DOCKE T

Tuesday , Augus t 17 , 201 0 9:0 0 a.m . Philli p Burto nUnite dState s Courthous e an dFedera l Buildin g 45 0 Golde nGat e Avenu e Ta xCourtroo m

2-135 0 Sa nFrancisco , Californi a 9410 2

BEFOR E TH E HONORABL E RICHAR D C . GOODWIN , U.S . ADMINISTRATIV E LAWJUDG E Offic e o f Hearings , M-2 0 U.S . Departmen t o f Transportatio n 1 2 0 0 Ne wJerse yAvenue , S.E . Eas t Buildin g Groun dFloor , Roo mE12-32 0 Washington , D.C . 2059 0 202-366-2139 , Attorney-Adviso r 202-366-5121 , Lega l Assistan t 202-366-7536 , Fa x

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA L R . GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

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. 20005-370 1 www.nealrgross.co mAPPEARANCES : Fro mComplainan t Federa l Aviatio nAdministration : CRAI GBLACK , Attorne y Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n Regional Counsel , Offic e o f th e Regiona l Counsel , AAL- 7 Alaska nRegio n 22 2 Wes t Sevent hAvenue , Bo x1 4 Anchorage , Alask a 99513-758 7 Telephone : 907-271-526 9 Fax : 907-271-280 0

Fo r th e Respondent : ROBER T PERSEKIAN , Owner , i npr o pe r Precisio nDisplay s an dTool s 155 5 Alu mRoc k Avenue , Suit e 2 0 Sa nJose , Californi a 9511 6 Telephone : 408-504-251 5



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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G- S (9:0 3 a.m. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : Let' s g o o n th e record , Counsel , d o yo u wan t t o identif y yoursel f fo r th e record , please ?

MR . BLACK : Yes . M ynam e i s Crai g Blac k wit hth e Agency .

JUDG E GOODWIN : And , sir , jus t fo r th e record , woul dyo u identif yyourself . please ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Rober t Persekian ,

JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . I lov e workin g fo r th e Government , th e pen s neve r work . An d I'v e go t one . That' s wh ythe ypu t
a bunc ho f the mu p here .

MR . PERSEKIAN : I understand . JUDG E GOODWIN : Pleas e b e seated . MR . PERSEKIAN : Than k you . JUDG E GOODWIN : It' s als o wh yI brin g m yow n pens .

Robert , woul dyo u pleas e spel l



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### 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 you r las t name fo r me ? MR . PERSEKIAN : It' s P-e-r-s-e-k

i-a-n . JUDG E GOODWIN : No wrefres hm y recollection . I hav e a friend wh o doe s thi s al l th e time , -i-a- n- -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Armenian . JUDG E GOODWIN : Armenian . And th e

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### Armenian , there' s anothe r on e that' s no t

MR . PERSEKIAN : Sometime s there' s some Persia nname s

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN ; tha t ar e - - tha t ar e similar . Andthat' s on e o f th e issue s - - on e o f th e problem s w e hav e t o fac e whe nth e Iranianrevolutio n- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : —happened . And theyhav e lot s o f -i-a-n-s .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : And w e wer e mixe d

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 up . Bu t anybod ywh o i s Armenia nend s wit h-i

a-n . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay .

MR . PERSEKIAN : An di t mean s "the , " becaus e Armenia nname s cam e fro mtrade s lik e th e blacksmith , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Righ t Okay , gotch a MR . PERSEKIAN : - - th e goldsmith . th e baker , yo u know , smal l villages .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right , um-hum .

"the. " MR . PERSEKIAN : An d-i-a- nmean s

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . T-h-e . MR . PERSEKIAN : T-h-e . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Thi s i s no t relate dt o th e case , bu t I liv e i nFresno .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Oh , yo u do ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . S o - -

o f us ? MR . PERSEKIAN : S o yo u kno wa lo t

JUDG E GOODWIN : I kno wa lo t o f - -

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 an dwhe nI wa s i nhig hschoo l on e o f m ygoo d

friend s wa s Armenian .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Uh-huh . JUDG E GOODWIN : An di t wa s —hi s wife' s nam e wa s Patek .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t w e wer e clos e friend s fo r - - al l throug hhig hschool .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Al l right . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o I'v e bee n- - MR . PERSEKIAN : Al l right . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - quit e familiar . MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , i nth e - - MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . Tha t - - JUDG E GOODWIN : And , Mr . Black , thi s isn' t relate dt o th e - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : — case , bu t i n- - MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-huh . JUDG E GOODWIN : 

### i nFresno , they'l lpronouncin g thei r las t name , an d

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 they'l l sa yit' s i-a-n , o r it' s - - MR . PERSEKIAN : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN : An d— MR . PERSEKIAN : O r sometime s the y pu t - - pu t th e "y. "

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dth e reaso nwh y Fresn o i s - - afte r th e massacr e o f 191 5 - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN ; th e onl ythin g the ycoul dd o i s wor k i nagriculture .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . Well , no ,

MR . PERSEKIAN : An dthat' s wh y the ymove dt o Fresno .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An dth e histor yo f Fresn o i s tha t abou t th e sam e tim e th e Armenian s move dt o th e Centra l Valley , ther e wa s a hug e influ xo f Japanese , whic hsurprise d
me , bot ho f who mcam e ther e fo r th e farming .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN ; An dsom e o f th e

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 majo r farm s i nth e Centra l Valle yar e owne d

eithe r b yArmenian s o r b yth e Japanese .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum , um-hiom . Bu t w e hav e th e bi g celebratio nonc e a year , th e Blessin g o f th e Wine .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . MR . PERSEKIAN ; Tha t it' s a traditio nt o g o t o ever yyear . An da lo t o f

u s wil l no t ea t grape s unti l afte r th e blessing . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . See , Mr . Black , th e tri p wa s wort hit .

Okay . I ha dissue da norder , th e dat e o f whic hI'l l - - apparentl yi nearl y August , findin g tha t th e - - well , whic hi s self-explanatory . S o we'r e her e o nsanctions .

So , Mr . Black , d o yo u wan t t o procee dfirst ?

MR . BLACK : Sure , You r Honor . I f I ma yremai nseated , i f that' s al l righ t

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . MR . BLACK : —wit hyou ?

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Sure . MR . BLACK : Yes , you r orde r o f Augus t 4t hestablishe deac ho f th e 1 8 violation s tha t we'v e allege di nthi s case . S o I woul dlik e t o presen t t o yo u th e Agency' s positio no nwh ywe'v e gon e ou t fo r a civi l penalt yi nthi s cas e o f $20,000 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . BLACK : I di d- - i nou r offic e
w e typicall ycoordinat e thos e decision s wit h
ou r inspector s wh o hav e don e th e investigation . I nthi s cas e tha t wa s Specia l Agen t Jeffre yDeitz , i s hi s name .

An di f a t anypoin t durin g thi s hearin g yo u hav e question s tha t yo u thin k migh t b e bes t directe dt o him , h e i s availabl e b ytelephon e i nAnchorage . H e di dno t trave l fo r thi s hearing . Bu t I wante dt o mak e tha t offe r i f i t become s helpful .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Well , we'l l
se e wha t happens .

An dwha t we'r e goin g t o do , Mr .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Persekian , I'l l allo wMr . Blac k t o present .

Andthe nI'l l allo wyo u t o presen t an y evidenc e tha t yo u wan t to .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Thank you , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . G o ahead , Mr . Black . MR . BLACK : I hav e provide dMr . Persekia ntodaywit ha copyo f ou r Primary Guidanc e fo r determining sanctio namounts . Tha t i s Appendi xC o f FA AOrde r 2150.3B . Tha t i s ou r Sanctio nGuidanc e fo r hazardou s material s case s lik e this .

Ands o I'l l b e referrin g t o element s o f tha t appendi xa s w e g o - - a s I g o forward . I nthi s cas e th e Judg e ha s foun d tha t ther e wer e 1 8 violations . Fo r ou r purpose s todaytheyessentiall yfal l int o five violatio ncategories . Ther e wer e 1 2 violation s fo r failing t o properl yprepar e shipping papers . That' s i n Subpar t C o f th e Hazardou s Material s Regulations .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Ther e wer e two violation s fo r

marking , on e fo r labeling , on e fo r failur e t o provid e anemergenc yrespons e telephon e n\mber , andtwo fo r failur e t o properl ytrai n employee s i nHazardou s Material s Transportatio nRegulations . Bu t ultimatel y th e 1 8 violation s fal l int o thos e five categorie s I ncoming u p wit hth e $20,00 0 figure , the Agenc ydi da nanalysi s o f the natur e o f thi s particula r violation . Precisio n Displays ' degre e o f culpability , othe r factor s tha t playi nsuc ha s the natur e o f the shipmen t andth e quantit yo f material s tha t wer e shippe di nviolation , th e typ e o f busines s tha t Precisio nDisplay s is , and an attemp t b

yu s t o determin e Precisio nDisplays ' abilit yt o pay .

A s w e g o throughth e Appendi xC , on e thing w e - - tha t i s clea r i s tha t the Agenc yha s anobligatio nt o determin e wha t w e cal l th e weigh t o f the hazardou s material s

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 shipmen t And i nthi s case , w e decide d tha t

i t wasn' t a minima l case ; i t wasn' t a maximu m case . Thi s wa s a moderat e case . Andtha t i s base do nananalysi s o f th e natur e o f the shipmen t and the othe r factor s tha t I'v e jus t outlined . Her e w e hav e relativel ysmal l quantities , bu t significan t quantities . W e hav e thinner , pain t thinner , and stai ntha t wer e shipped . Thes e item s ar e easil yignite d b yheat , sparks , an

d flame and presen t obviou s andclea r dangers , whe n- - i f theyar e a ignite daboar d anaircraft .

Th e adhesiv e and th e spraypain t ar e bot haerosols . The yar e pron e t o exploding , exploding o r rupturing from hea t o r sudde ntemperatur e change . I na - - i na plane , eac ho f thos e thre e item s ca ncaus e a catastrophi c danger .

And the failur e o f Precisio n Display s t o aler t Alask a Airline s t o the

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 presenc e o f thos e material s pose d a

significan t har mt o tha t fligh t tha t da yi n Ma yo f '0 8 Furthermore , th e failur e o f Precisio nDisplay s t o identif ythes e material s t o Alask a Airline s increase s th e likelihoo do r probabilit yo f a nincident .

No wa s w e loo k a t th e ris k categorie s i nFigur e C 2 o f Appendi xC - - an d I shoul dad dtha t w e woul dhop e tha t th e - - tha t th e Judg e woul dtak e administrativ e notic e o f th e entir e order , 2150.3B .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Yeah , I'v e ha d thi s discussio nwit hMr . Morris . M ypositio n i s tha t upo nreques t I wil l tak e judicia l notic e o f thing s tha t ar e i nth e Regulations .

Th e standard , Mr . Persekian , fo r takin g judicia l notic e is , i f it' s informatio n that' s i nth e publi c realm , fo r instance , i f Mr . Blac k aske dm e t o tak e judicia l notic e o f th e fac t tha t Sa nFrancisc o wa s i nCaliforni a that' s a matte r that' s withi nth e genera l

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 knowledge , Withi nth e are a o f th e law .

regulations , laws , statutes , ar e al l publicl y available . An dth e othe r reaso nI d o i t i s a lo t o f th e thing s tha t th e FAAha s ar e quit e thick , severa l inches . S o rathe r tha nfillin g
m ydrawer s u p i nm yoffic e ful l o f regulations , whic hma yb e hundred s o f page s long , I tak e judicia l notice . An dI woul dd o th e sam e i nyou r case . I t simplifie s th e proceedings .

An dMr . Morris , inspit e o f th e fac t tha t we'v e ha ddiscussion s ove r tw o years , like s t o fil e th e motio naskin g m e t o tak e judicia l notice . An dI tol dhi mi f I
wer e hi mI' dfil e th e sam e motion , knowin g th e Judg e i s stil l goin g t o gran t it .

Bu t i nyou r cas e I wil l tak e judicia l notic e o f th e statute . An dwha t w e do , sir , i s I loo k a t th e statut e applicabl e a t th e tim e o f th e incident . Yo u know , th e Governmen t i s alway s changin g things . An dw e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 loo k a t the applicabl e statute . I ntha t way , Mr . Blac k doesn' t hav e t o b e concerne dabou t going t o th e plane , grabbing th e wron g versio no f th e statute . W e loo k i t u

p o nth e internet . So , Mr . Black ? MR . BLACK : Ver ygood . Thank you . You r Hono r Anothe r i ndeterminin g the civi l penalt yi nthi s case , w e als o looke d a t wha t ris k categorie s th e item s tha t wer e shippe dfal l into . Here , the thinner , the adhesive , and the spraypain t ar e al l ris k CategoryAitem s entitle d t o a maximio mweight . Thes e ar e item s tha t ca nhav e a catastrophi c effec t o nthe aircraft' s abilit yt o continu e saf e flight .

Th e fourt hitem , th e stain , i s no t categorize da s a maximum-ris k category . I t fall s int o th e moderate-ris k category . CategoryB , becaus e i t doe s no t pos e imminen t threa t o f fligh t - - a nimminen t threa t t o

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### 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 fligh t safety , bu t i t ca ncaus e deat ho r

injuryi f it' s released . And i t ca nals o damag e aircraf t ove r time causing ris k furthe r downthe road t o folk s o nthe plan e and peopl e o nthe ground beneat hth e plane .

S o thos e wer e th e ris k categorie s fo r the four items . Thre e o f them wer e i nthe Ris k CategoryA , and the nth e fourt hitem , the stain , i s i nRis k CategoryB .

No ww e looke d a t othe r factor s tha t hav e - - tha t impac t th e weigh t o f thes e offenses . A s I note da momen t ago , thes e wer e relativel ysmal l quantitie s o f hazardou s materials . W e ha da 32-ounc e ca no f the thinner , 16-ounc e ca no f th e stain , thre e 16-ounc e can s o f th e sprayadhesive , andtwo 12-ounc e can s o f spraypaint .

I suppose , pu t together , ther e migh t b e a hal f a gallo nor , yo u know , clos e t o a gallo nthere , somewher e i ntha t neighborhood . No t tremendou s quantities , bu t no t negligibl e either .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Th e Agenc yconsidere dtha t through

the cours e o f it s investigation , Mr . Persekian , o nbehal f o f th e compan yha s accepte dresponsibilit yfo r thes e violations . He' s indicated , and w e accept , tha t theywer e no t deliberat e violations , tha t theywer e contraryt o the compan ypolic yo f Precisio n Displays , whic hwa s no t t o shi p Hazmat . And
w e als o not e tha t Precisio nDisplay s ha s n o prio r historyo f violations .

S o onc e w e looke d a t al l o f thos e factors , w e ha d a nobligatio nunde r th e orde r t o determin e the overal l weigh t o f thi s violation . And w e determine d tha t i t wa s o f moderat e weight .

Althoughth e hazardou s material s themselve s ar e generall ymaximu m weigh t items , the othe r factor s tha t we'v e identifie d mitigate dtha t downsomewhat , and w e wen t - - decide dtha t thi s i s a moderat e violation .

Having determine dthat , w e the n looke da t Gate

- - - a t th e Matri xC I o f Orde r

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 21503b , Andi nthe versio nI provide d t o

you , Mr . Persekian , tha t w e spok e abou t earlier , it' s o npag e 1 2 o f th e orde r o f Appendi xC . Th e firs t thing w e di di nthi s - - i nanalyzing thi s matri xi s figuring ou t wha t sourc e o f offens e categorythi s was . Thi s i s a Category2 violatio no ntha t - - o ntha t matrix . Thi s wa s anundeclare d shipment . Th e item s themselve s wer e withi nquantit ylimits , whic hindicate s tha t thes e item s coul d hav e bee nsafel yshippe dha d Precisio nDisplay s don e it s jo bproperly . The ydi dno t d o so .

W e the nanalyze d wha t sor t o f violato r committe dthi s violation . Andfo r busines s ther e ar e thre e possibl e categories : Colum nB , Colum

nC , andColum

nD . Colum

nD i s reall yfo r manufacturer s o r peopl e tha t ar e - - o r companie s tha t ar e i nthe busines s o f transporting hazardou s materials , offering them , accepting them . That' s no t appropriat e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 fo r Precisio nDisplays . W e als o determine d tha t although Precisio nDisplay s likel ycome s int o contac t wit hthes e sort s o f hazardou s material s i nth e cours e o f thei r routin e business , w e weren' t abl e t o establis htha t conclusively .

And s o w e decide d t o trea t Precisio nDisplay s and Tool s a s th e - - a t the lowes t en

do f the busines s scale . Tha t woul d b e Colum

nB , a s simpl ya mer e busines s entity . S o i f yo u combine dth e ro wand colum ntha t w e identifie d fo r Figur e C I i nthe order , tha t provide s a rang e o f penaltie s fo r eac ho f the categorie s o f violation s betwee n $1,50 0 and$8,200 .

No wi nthi s case , sinc e ther e wer e five o f violatio ncategories , w e looke d a t tha t range . Andth e midpoin t o f tha t rang e i s abou t $4400 , I believe , somewher e i ntha t neighborhood .

W e reduce d i t agai ndown$4,000 , simpl ybecaus e w e di d no t fee l w e neede dt o g o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 al l th e wa yt o th e midpoin t o f th e rang e i n

thi s case , give nth e smal l quantitie s an d Precisio nDisplays ' attitud e i nacceptin g responsibility .

W e ultimatel ydetermine dtha t eac h
o f th e violatio ncategorie s merite da sanctio n o f $4,00 0 each . Fou r thousan ddollar s time s fiv e violatio ncategorie s equal s $20,000 . S o tha t i s th e fina l figur e tha t w e hav e requeste di nthi s matter .

I t reflect s th e natur e o f gravit y an dexten t o f th e violations . I t acknowledge s Precisio nDisplays ' degre e o f culpability , thei r lac k o f anyprio r violatio nhistory , an d
ou r attempt s t o acces s thei r abilit yt o pay .

I mus t not e tha t w e wer e a bi t frustrate di nthi s cas e tryin g t o asses s th e company' s abilit yt o pay . An dI' m sur e Mr . Persekia nwil l wan t t o spea k o ntha t point .

W e serve ddiscover yo nPrecisio n Display s i nMay . Thi s i s th e sam e discover y tha t resulte di nth e Court' s orde r o f Augus t

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### 2 1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 4th , I ntha t discoverywer e request s

abou t whethe r Precisio nDisplay s anticipate d presentin g abilit yt o pay . Concerns , w e requeste ddocument s relate d t o abilit yt o pay . W e di dno t receiv e much . W e di dreceiv e some material s o nJul y29th . Bu t nothin g wa s specifi c t o Precisio nDisplays .

W e receive d taxreturn s from Mr . Persekia nand hi s wif e fo r the pas t two years . W e receive da taxretur nfo r a compan ycalle d Mayolo , Inc . Andw e d o no t kno wwha t the relationshi p t o Mayolo , Inc . i s t o thi s case .

W e als o receive da numbe r o f demandletter s from creditor s o f Precisio n Display s relativel yrecent , demand letter s withi nthe pas t year , demanding tha t Precisio n Display s payvariou s debt s tha t theyha d accumulated .

Bu t o nbalanc e ther e wasn' t anything tha t actuall yinforme d u s abou t th e company' s actua l abilit yt o pay . And I' d

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### 2 2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 lik e t o reserv e the opportunit yt o addres s an y o f thos e issue s tha t Mr . Persekia nbring s up .

I' d lik e t o not e fo r th e recor d tha t i na t leas t two FA Aorders , th e Hampto n Ai r Service s orde r and i nth e orde r I nth e Matte r o f Guiffrida , an dI believ e that' s spelle dG-u-i-f-f-r-i-d-a , Matte r o f Guiffrida , whic hi s FA AOrde r 1992-72 . It' s the obligatio no f the responden t t o sho wtha t i t doe s no t hav e the abilit yt o payth e propose dviolation . I t i s no t th e Agency' s burden . And s o i nth e end , give nthe moderat e weigh t o f the shipment , finding o f th e natur e o f Precisio nDisplays ' business , tha t it' s a mer e - - tha t i t i s a business , bu t it' s no t necessaril yi nth e busines s o f handling , o r shipping , o r transporting hazardou s materials , give nth e five violatio n categorie s foun

d i nth e Court' s orde r o f Augus t 4th , and ou r assessmen t tha t a penalt y o f betwee n1,50 0 and 820 0 pe r violatio n

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 warrant s a penalt yo f $4,000-per-violatio n

category , th e Agenc ysubmit s tha t th e Cour t shoul dorde r a civi l penalt yi nth e amoun t o f $20,000 . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Wha t I' m goin g t o d o i s I' mgoin g t o allo wMr . Persekia nt o presen t som e evidence .

Mr . Persekian , it' s goin g t o tak e
m e a whil e t o generat e a decisio njus t becaus e o f m yschedule .

An di f afte r thi s hearing , Mr . Black , yo u an dMr . Persekia nwan t t o continu e t o tal k an dyo u reac ha settlement , don' t fee l tha t yo u nee dt o wai t fo r m e t o issu e a n opinion . You'r e no t goin g t o hur t m y feeling s i f sometim e betwee nno wan dI ge t
aroun dt o doin g a decisio ntha t I ge t a nemai l fro mon e o f yo u saying : We'v e settle dth e

case . Al l right ?

S o anythin g further , Mr . Black ,

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 fo r th e Agency ? MR . BLACK : Nothin g further . You r Honor , JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Mr . Persekian , i t woul db e helpfu l t o th e Cour t i f you' djus t giv e m e a - - an di f yo u hav e - - yo u hav e troubl e hearing , I ca nunderstan dthat . I'v e go t a hearin g disability . I nth e wron g courtroo mI can' t hea r anything . I can' t alway s hea r well .

Tel l m e somethin g abou t th e compan yan dyou r relationshi p t o th e company ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir , Precisio nDisplay s i s a compan yfo r buildin g fixtures . W e d o rat e the mcommercia l fixtures . Thi s i s ou r famil ybusines s tha t w e inherite dfro mou r parents . An dw e learne d- - I learne dtha t trad e bac k i nIsrael , wher e I
com e from , fro mm yfather .

I starte dthi s busines s i n199 0 whe nI move dt o th e U. S W e starte dth e operatio ni n1991 . A s a business , w e Starte d

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 small , an dw e starte dgrowin g a s w e need . Th e

natur e o f th e busines s require s constan t supervision .

An dm ywa yo f doin g busines s wa s hands-o nal l th e time . An dI wa s controllin g ever ydecisio nan dever ymovemen t i nth e company . Whateve r i t is , I wa s - - I ha dth e fina l sa yi nit .

Beginnin g 200 8 m ydaughte r wa s diagnose dwit hbrai ncancer . Tha t change dou r lif e completely . An dth e sam e yea r I ha da ga s explosio nan dburn t m ybody . An d I spen t
a lo t o f month s i nSa nDieg o Stat e Universit y Bur nCente r wher e I underwen t constructiv e surgerie s o nmybody .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u did ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I did . JUDG E GOODWIN : Wer e yo u th e on e wh o wa s burned , then ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Ye s JUDG E GOODWIN : Oh , okay . I' m sorry .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : An dI wa s — JUDG E GOODWIN : S o i t wa s - - thi s i s th e sam e tim e tha t you r daughter' s brai n cance r - - MR . PERSEKIAN : M ydaughte r wa s diagnose dwit hbrai nsurger y[sic ] th e beginnin g o f th e year . Late r i nth e yea r I go t burned . I wa s bedridde nfo r months . An d I hav e th e report s t o sho wo nthat . I ha d t o g o tw o majo r surgeries . An dI ha da ver ybi g chanc e o f losin g m ylegs .

No w durin g tha t period , I couldn' t d o m yjo bth e wa yI d o i t controllin g th e company . S o durin g tha t perio dw e ha da jo b comin g o ni nAlaska . An don e o f m yassociate s wen t t o Alask a t o brin g bac k ou r tools .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Righ t MR . PERSEKIAN : H e hire d someho wthe ypu t th e tool s together . An d thes e can s tha t Mr . Blac k i s talkin g abou t ha d
ver ysmal l amount s o f materia l i nthem . Henc e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - ou r polic yan d th e instruction s tha t wer e give nt o thi s perso nwh o went , anythin g tha t i s hazardous , anythin g tha t coul db e a problem , kee p i t there , giv e i t away , mak e sur e i t doesn' t g o o nth e plane .

I wa s i nm ybed , unabl e t o move . An dI mad e th e call . I tol dhim : Please , mak e sur e nothin g happens . W e don' t hav e any problems . We'v e bee ndoin g thi s thin g fo r s o

man yyear s An donc e I wa s supervisin g everything , nothin g eve r happened . An dth e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - recor dshow s tha t H e wen t ther e an dsaid : Okay , okay , okay . Everythin g wil l b e fine . H e cam e back : Everythin g okay ? Everythin g okay .

No wo nth e form s tha t w e fil l u p fo r th e airlines , w e alway s pu t th e phon e numbe r a s a contac t number . That' s a

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 standard . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : W e d o i t al l th e time . Whe nh e cam e back , everythin g i s okay , everythin g i s fine , nothing . M ydaughte r wa s doin g a CA T sca nfo r he r head .

An dI ge t a cal l fro mth e FAA saying : Yo u shippe dhazardou s material . An d al l tha t wa s th e firs t tim e I eve r kne w abou t it . I said ; I hav e n o ide a wha t you'r e talkin g about . S o thi s thin g develope d late r on . Th e FAAhav e bee nver ygraciou s t o understan dm ypositio nan dt o wor k wit hm e t o postpon e thi s thing .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Um-hum . MR , PERSEKIAN ; Becaus e m y daughter' s situatio nwa s deteriorating . An d th e tumo r o nhe r brai nwa s gettin g bigger . An dm ysituatio ni nth e hospita l wa s gettin g worse . I wa s ou t o f th e hospita l th e beginnin g o f th e year .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN ; Tha t —s o thi s

woul db e i n'09 ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : '09 . JUDG E GOODWIN : '09 , okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : Bu t th e tumo r tha t
m ydaughte r ha dwa s gettin g bigge r an dgrowin g unti l finall ythe ydecide dthe ywan t t o d o surger yo nher , Al l '0 9 I couldn' t concentrat e o ndoin g anything .

Firs t o f all , m ysituation , th e therapie s I' mgoin g through , m ydaughter' s situation . An dI ha da nexperienc e i nm y famil ya s I los t m yfathe r t o a surgery . S o tha t gav e m e - - botto mline , I wa s scare dfo r
m ydaughter .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : S o t o m e workin g wa s no t important . Wha t wa s importan t fo r m e i s m ydaughter , m yfamily , t o mak e sur e she' s safe . Sh e passe dsurger yOctobe r o f '09 . The ywer e abl e t o tak e ou t th e tumor . An d she' s stil l goin g throug hrevision s an d

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 therapies .

o f '09 ? JUDG E GOODWIN : S o i t wa s Octobe r

MR . PERSEKIAN : Octobe r o f '0 9 sh e passe d- - sh e mad e surger y- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Fin e MR . PERSEKIAN : —i nSa n Francisc o JUDG E GOODWIN : Right .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Bu t al l thi s tim e
w e wer e - - ever ycoupl e o f week s w e ha d anothe r doctor , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - anothe r visit , anothe r exam , anothe r thing , another . S o al l th e yea r I coul dno t work .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : No t tha t I coul d
no t work . Physically , m ybod ywoul dno t allo w
m e t o work . An dno wshe' s stil l goin g throug h i ntherapies . Myself , becaus e o f th e acciden t I had , an dm yburne dle g - - an dI ca nsho wyo u

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 m ylegs , i f yo u like ? JUDG E GOODWIN : I tak e you r wor d fo r i t MR . PERSEKIAN : --m yabilit yt o wor k wen t down .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : S o w e wer e hi t b y th e economy . I wa s hi t b ym yaccident . I wa s hi t b ym ydaughter . An ds o everythin g cam e a t th e sam e time . Incom e definitel ywen t dow nt o a trickle . Expense s ar e th e same . Everythin g wen t down , whic hmean s I go t behin do n payments . No wI' mtryin g t o ge t bac k o nm y feet , slowly , slowly . M yabilit yt o wor k i s gettin g bette r ever yday . An dI' mhopin g i n
n o tim e I ge t bac k t o wha t I use dt o b e like .

Sinc e I starte dth e compan ytil l '0 8 I ha dexcellen t credit . Ever yyea r I wa s increasin g sales . I wa s abl e t o affor da lo t
o f things . '0 8 wa s a ba dyear . W e go t hit . W e wen t down . I mean , al l I' mlookin g fo r i s

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 a chanc e t o ge t bac k o nm yfeet . JUDG E GOODWIN : Le t m e g o bac k t o th e - - no wyo u sa yyo u starte dth e compan yi n Armenia ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I nIsrael .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I n- - MR . PERSEKIAN : No . Th e compan y wa s starte db ym yparents .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : No t th e compan y— JUDG E GOODWIN : Tha t - - okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - tha t trades . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right , okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : I starte dm y compan yher e i nth e U.S . whe nI move dt o th e U. S

that ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Whe nwa s

MR . PERSEKIAN : 1990 . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , An dyo u sa y yo u d o fixtures . An dit' s a - - wha t d o yo u mea nb yfixtures ? I - -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Showcase s JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : Lik e w e buil d stores . Jewelr ystores , clothin g stores , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : —gif t stores , stuf f lik e that . I t s o happene d- - w e ha da goo dmarke t i nAlaska .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dever yyea r w e g o t o Alaska . An dw e d o th e work . W e tak e ou r tools . B yth e en do f th e season , w e pu t the mo nth e plane . W e sen dthe mback . W e d o i t ever yyear .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dever yyea r w e hav e zer o problems , becaus e I personall yg o there . An dI supervise , an dI chec k ever y singl e ite mbefor e i t goe s o nth e plane , becaus e I trus t nobody .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Righ t MR . PERSEKIAN : Whe nthi s

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 happened , I wa s i nth e hospita l - -

understand . JUDG E GOODWIN ;

MR . PERSEKIAN ; Right ,

- - i nbed . coul dno t d o anything .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . No wd o yo u hav e ta xreturn s tha t sho wwha t you r - - ha s happene dt o you r incom e sinc e - - fo r lik e '07 , '08 , '09 ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . An dI sen t a cop yt o Mr . Black .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Di dyo u ge t this , Mr . Black ?

MR . BLACK : Wha t I hav e - - yes . You r Honor , I hav e - - I hav e ta xreturn s fo r basicall ythre e - - well , I hav e a nindividua l retur nfo r Mr . Persekia nan dMari a Valenci a - -

I s thi s you r wife ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . MR . BLACK : Than k you .

- - fo r 200 9 an dfo r 2008 , I believe .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Whil e he' s doin g

that , Mr . Persekian , th e compan ytha t yo u operate , i s i t a corporation , a sol e proprietorship , a partnership ?

MR . PERSEKIAN ; No wit' s corporation . A t tha t tim e i t wa s - - i t wa s a corporation , I think , t o th e bes t o f m y- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN ; reall ydon' t handl e this . - - memory .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right , I understand . D o th e ta xreturn s indicat e whethe r it' s a corporation , o r a sol e proprietorship , o r som e variatio nthereof?

MR . BLACK : No t tha t I wa s abl e t o determine , You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . BLACK : Th e othe r ite mtha t w e hav e i s w e hav e a nS Corporatio nretur nfo r 200 9 fo r a nentit yknow na s Mayolo , Inc .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; What' s Mayolo , Inc. ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Mayolo , Inc . i s

th e corporation . An dPrecisio nwa s workin g unde r Mayolo , Inc . - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN ; a s th e corporation .

TH E REPORTER : Ca nyo u spel l that ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I' msorry ? TH E REPORTER : Ca nyo u spel l that . please ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Whic hone ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Mayolo . MR . PERSEKIAN : Mayolo ? TH E REPORTER : Yes . MR . PERSEKIAN : M-a-y-o-l-O-S . MS . SPEAKER : Than k you . MR . PERSEKIAN : Sure . MR . BLACK : I' msorry . I s i t - - o nth e docioment s I' mseeing , it' s M-a-y-o-l-o , withou t a ns .

TH E REPORTER : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : Mayolo .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . BLACK : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Than k you . S o that' s th e corporatio nunde r whic hPrecisio nDisplay s operates ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . An dt o th e bes t o f you r knowledge , ar e the ybot hSubchapte r S corporations ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : I hav e n o idea . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . BLACK : You r Honor , - - MR . PERSEKIAN : I' mjus t - - I' m- - MR . BLACK : You r Honor , — JUDG E GOODWIN : That' s wh yyo u hav e a lav^yer , right ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : I mea nI' mjus t a simpl e gu ywh o - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : I understand . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - goe s t o wor k
ever yda yan dgoe s hom e ever yday . That' s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : I unde r — MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s —

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : I understand , MR . PERSEKIAN : - - that' s al l I know . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah .

MR . BLACK : I d o sho wtha t i nth e ta xretur nfo r Mayolo , i t indicate s it' s a nS corporation . An dfo r 2009 , I believ e thi s is , i t ha dgros s receipt s o f - - aggregat e gros s receipt s o f $910,00 0 an d5 9 - - 9

- —910,059 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t that' s gross ? MR . BLACK : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . BLACK : I mea nw e ar e jus t tryin g t o asses s th e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Right , I understand .

busines s MR . BLACK : - - th e scop e o f th e

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , understand . Wha t doe s i t sho wfo r - - wha t d o yo u - - d o yo u hav e '09 , '08 , '07 ?

MR . BLACK : I onl yhav e '09 .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : I thin k yo u hav e

'08 , too , t o th e bes t o f m yknowledge .

(Paus e i nth e proceedings. ) MR . PERSEKIAN : It' s '09 . MR . BLACK : Bu t that ' s a n individua l retur n

MR . PERSEKIAN : Oh , okay . Yo u shoul dhav e th e boo k here .

MR . BLACK : It' s furthe r down . MR . PERSEKIAN : See , I don' t eve n kno wdurin g thes e things .

MR . BLACK : An djus t fo r th e Court' s benefit , wha t Mr . Persekia ni s doin g i s goin g throug hth e document s tha t h e sen t u s o n- - i nlat e July . W e receive dthe mo nJul y 29th . It' s ta xreturn s fo r bot hhimself , hi s wife , - - MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes .

MR . BLACK : - - an dth e company . MR . PERSEKIAN : Isn' t thi s '08 ? MR . BLACK : No , it' s - - that' s th e '09 .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 is . MR . PERSEKIAN : Again ? MR . BLACK : No , that' s al l ther e

(Paus e i nth e proceedings. ) MR . PERSEKIAN : No , I reall ydon' t understan dthes e things . I jus t kno who wt o mak e cabinet s

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right , - - MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s — JUDG E GOODWIN : — I understand . MR . PERSEKIAN ; that' s - - that' s al l I know .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t - - d o yo u hav e a naccountan t o r a lawyer , wh o - - wh o - -

MR, PERSEKITUST ; hav e a n accountant . Alawyer , I can' t affor done .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Bu t yo u hav e a naccountant ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : I do . JUDG EGOODWIN : Woul dh ehav e copie s o f

you r ta xreturn s fo r th elas t

- - MR
. PERSEKIAN : O f course , yes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Wha t I' d

lik e yo u t o d o i s giv e Mr . Blac k hi s nam e an d addres s Here' s th e proble mI have , Mr . Persekian . I t appear s obviousl ytha t you'v e bee nver yhones t an dforthrigh t wit hMr . Black , Th e proble mtha t th e Agenc yan dI bot hhav e i s tha t Congres s ha s a ver ynarro w vie wo f thes e cases . An dth e las t tim e the y ha dth e opportunit yt o loo k a t th e sanction s involve di nthes e case s the yincrease dth e fines . Alo t o f thi s goe s bac k - - d o yo u remembe r th e Ai r Florid a incident ? Th e plan e crashe dafte r takin g off .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Right . JUDG E GOODWIN : An dCongres s take s thes e thing s ver yseriously . Th e proble m I hav e is , unles s yo u ca nsho wtha t yo u don' t hav e th e abilit yt o pay , I ma yhav e t o mak e a decisio ntha t fro ma nequit ystandpoint , i s i t beneficia l t o you ? Bu t I can' t d o - - I can' t

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### 4 2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 d o equity . I d o regulatorylaw . Equit yi s

wher e yo u woul d g o t o a cour t andyou' d argue , andthe judg e would , yo u kno w- - coul d mak e a decisio nbase d o na lo t o f th e fact s tha t you'v e talke d t o m e about .

Wha t I' d lik e t o d o i s hav e Mr . Blac k revie wthe taxreturn s fo r ' 07 , '08 , and'09 . I' mgoing t o as k - - i na fewminute s I' mgoing t o as k yo u wha t kindo f income you'r e makin g now .

And I' mals o going t o ask , onc e yo u ge t the returns , t o forwar dthem t o me . AndI' mgoing t o procee di ndu e course . I f the two o f yo u canresolv e it , fine . I f yo u can't , I'l l mak e a decisio nbase d o nth e fact s andth e evidence .

MR . PERSEKIAN : t 

### Yeah . I mean . You r Honor , I understand wha t happened .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : And I understand th e gravit yo f wha t happened . And I fee l very ba dabou t wha t happened , becaus e i t shouldn' t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 hav e happened . Thi s perso nshoul dhav e bee n

mor e careful .

Well , I thin k you'v e bee nver y- - i t sound s t o m e lik e you'v e bee nver yhones t wit hMr . Black . An dyou'v e certainl ybee n ver yhones t an dforthrigh t wit hme . An dI appreciat e tha t an dI respec t that .

Bu t wha t you'v e go t t o understand , a s a regulator yjudge , I'v e go t a ver ynarro w avenu e o f remedy , s o t o speak , wha t I ca ndo .

An dit' s incumben t upo nyo u t o demonstrat e t o th e Cour t tha t yo u canno t affor dt o pa ywhateve r i t i s Mr . Blac k i s askin g for . No wle t m e as k yo u this : Yo u wer e

- - yo u wer e i nth e hospita l fro msometim e i n '08 . An di f I remembe r wha t yo u said , yo u wer e finall yrelease dfro mth e hospita l i n abou t '09 ? MR . PERSEKIAN : En do f '08 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , en do f '0 8 Whe nwer e yo u release dt o g o bac k t o work ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e docto r sai d

wheneve r yo u can .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o onc e yo u go t
ou t o f th e hospital , wer e yo u i ntherapy?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ho wlon g wer e yo u i ntherapy , o r ar e yo u stil l i ntherapy?

MR . PERSEKIAN : T o a certai npoin t I' mi ntherapy . Bu t m ykin do f therap yI don' t nee dt o g o t o a therapist .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : It' s thing s I ca n d o a t hom e b ymyself .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay , MR , PERSEKIAN ; Bu t hav e restrictions , lik e I' mno t suppose dt o stan d fo r to o long .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : I' mno t suppose d t o sit . I' mno t suppose dt o drive .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dal l kind s o f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 things . I nee dt o kee p massagin g m yfee t

ever ycoupl e hours .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wer e th e burn s belo wyou r knees ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e burn s wer e fro mth e ankl e down .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yo u mea nfro mth e kne e down ?

down . MR . PERSEKIAN ; Fro m th e kne e

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . An dwer e the yfirst , second , o r thir ddegree ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Third . That' s th e worst , right ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right , yeah . MR . PERSEKIAN : Well , the ydi d- - the ydi dsomethin g calle dgraftin g - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN ; - fro mth e knee s JUDG E GOODWIN : S o a s a resul t o f you r injuries , you'v e go t restriction s - - well , t o mak e a lon g stor yshort , yo u hav e t o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 kee p movin g t o keep you r circulatio ngoing ,

whic hmean s yo u can' t si t to o long , yo u can' t standto o long , yo u can' t driv e to o long ; i s tha t correct ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . No w- - MR . PERSEKIAN : Lik e i f I' m - - i f I' mo na long trip , everyhour , a nhou r and half , I hav e t o stop and g o ou t and wal k fo r te nminutes , and lif t m yleg s fo r some time . JUDG E GOODWIN : Anddependin g upo n traffic , i t coul db e a long tri p from her e t o Sa nJose , right ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly . JUDG E GOODWIN : No wtheydon' t hav e thos e traffi c jams , up i nAlaska , Mr . - -

MR , PERSEKIAN ; No , know . Alask a i s beautiful , though . I wis hI coul d g o andlive there .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . No who w hav e you r injurie s affecte d you r abilit yt o ear na living ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Ou r busines s i s w e

hav e t o g o t o th e clients , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Righ t MR . PERSEKIAN : - - t o mee t th e clien t an dfil l ou t th e jo bwit hth e clients .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : No wwhe nI canno t travel , I canno t reac ha lo t o f clients . That' s one . Th e othe r thin g i s whe nI' m sitting , talkin g t o a client , I'l l ge t tire d-

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - afte r a coupl e hours . S o - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : No wi n'0 7 ho w man yemployee s worke dfo r Precisio nDisplays ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : I n'0 7 w e ha da tota l o f lik e 35 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Ho wman yd o yo u hav e today ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Zero .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Jus t you ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Yeah . JUDG E GOODWIN : Di dyo u hav e t o la yof f thos e people ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Indicating , fo r th e record , yes .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . Th e reaso n I hav e t o d o tha t - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : I understand . I -

JUDG E GOODWIN : microphon e can' t se e yo u noddin g -- i s th e

MR . PERSEKIAN : Righ t - - JUDG E GOODWIN : —you r head . MR . PERSEKIAN : —right , yes . Yeah , Precisio nDisplay s ha s n o employee s now . Wha t I d o i s I - - i f I ge t jobs , I ca nsubcontrac t the mt o som e o f m y previou s employees . I nfact , I mak e a commissio no nthat .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : No wi n 0 9

apparentl yPrecisio nha dgros s revenu e o f abou t 910,000 .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : Wa s tha t base do n wor k tha t wa s - - tha t yo u go t i n'09 , o r wa s tha t wor k tha t ha d- - yo u ha dgotte nprio r years ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I woul dsa yit' s a combination . W e di dge t som e wor k i n'0 9 - - i n'09 . Bu t th e amoun t o f wor k tha t w e go t i n '0 9 wa s ver yminima l Becaus e bein g i n busines s fo r s o muc htim e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Righ t

business . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - yo u ge t repea t

JUDG E GOODWIN : Righ t MR . PERSEKIAN : An drepea t business , it' s - - it' s a no-brainer . Yo u jus t d o it . No wou r sale s i n'0 9 droppe dvastly , droppe dfro mbefore .

JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u remembe r

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 wha t you r gros s revenu e wa s i n'08 ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I —gros s revenue , lik e gros s sales , yo u mean ?

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Bu t yo u don' t remember ? I mea n- - yeah .

MR . PERSEKIAN : No t exactly . JUDG E GOODWIN : An dwha t doe s you r revenu e loo k lik e thi s year ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Thi s year ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , sir . MR . PERSEKIAN : Hopefull ybette r tha n'09 . Bu t - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t yo u don' t hav e anysens e righ t no wa s t o - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : W e hav e a littl e bit . I mea nw e hav e som e - - ho wmuc hsale s w e hav e s o far , mayb e hal f a million .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : S o far . Th e goo d thin g i s - - th e thin g tha t work s i nm yfavo r i s tha t ever yda yI' mgoin g t o ge t a littl e bi t better , - -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : —whic hgive s m e mor e abilit yt o mov e an dincreas e m yincome .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e proble mI hav e i s fo r th e pas t tw o year s I accumulate d a bi g deb t burden , becaus e o f wha t happened . An d it' s goin g t o tak e m e a whil e t o b e abl e t o ge t ri do f i t an dpa yfo r mor e tha nanythin g else . JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t kin do f debt s d o yo u have ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Credi t car ddebts , suppliers ' debts . I jus t mad e a narrangemen t wit hincom e ta xt o giv e the minstallmen t payment s

ow e IRS ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , ho wmuc h--

MR . PERSEKIAN : - - becaus e - • JUDG E GOODWIN : - - ho wmuc hd o yo u

MR . PERSEKIAN : Abou t 8,000 . I mad e a narrangemen t wit hthe mt o giv e the m

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 $50 0 ever ymont ht o pa yi t off . JUDG E GOODWIN : Ho wabou t you r credi t card s - - bu t no war e thes e busines s o r persona l credi t cards ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Well , see , jus t becaus e it' s har dt o ge t busines s finance , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - I wa s usin g m y persona l credi t card s t o financ e th e business .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . S o ho wmuc h
ar e you r credi t cards , roun dnumbers ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Nearl ya hundre d thousand . An djus t t o giv e yo u a nidea , lik e befor e thi s thin g happene dt o me , m yabilit y t o rais e credit , I coul drais e three , $400,00 0 i ncredit . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right .

MR . PERSEKIAN : No wI hav e a zer o credit . S o I hav e t o depen do nth e mone y comin g i nt o pay . An d- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : No wdi dyo u - - ho w ol di s you r daughter ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : She' s 25 . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . D o yo u hav e

- - talkin g abou t yo u an dyou r wif e - - d o yo u hav e insuranc e throug hth e company ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : No . JUDG E GOODWIN : Healt hinsurance? (N o audibl e reply. ) JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u hav e healt h insuranc e o f you r own ?

MR , PERSEKIAN : W e hav e catastrophi c healt hinsurance .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dtha t wa s th e on e goo dthin g tha t helpe dm e i nm yaccident .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o —bu t yo u mus t
ow e somebody , - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : I' msorry ? JUDG E GOODWIN : catastrophi c kick s i na t som elevel . becaus e

MR . PERSEKIAN : Onc e yo u g o t o th e hospital , the ypay .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : An dyo u onl yhav e

t o pa yth e deductible .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; MR . PERSEKIAN ; Al l right .

- - whic hi s lik e 5,00 0 JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , wha t I woul d lik e yo u t o d o i s - - d o yo u hav e credi t car d receipt s a t th e house ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Credi t car d receipt s JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , i nothe r words , yo u ge t a statemen t fro myou r credi t
car dcompany ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Ye s JUDG E GOODWIN ; Yeah . Wha t I ' d lik e yo u t o d o i s provid e thos e t o Mr , Black .

MR . PERSEKIAN : I sen t them . JUDG E GOODWIN : Oh , okay . Di d- - MR . BLACK : I --w e hav e som e - - w e hav e som e - - som e deman dletter s fro m creditors . Bu t I' mno t sur e i f thos e ar e th e credi t car dreceipt s you'r e jus t suggesting .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 You r Honor . MR . PERSEKIAN : On e o f the mis ,

lik e I ha dth e proble mwit hAmerica nExpress .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dthe ywen t ahead , an dthe ysue dm e and.. . judgment ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Di dthe yge t a

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Di dthe yge t a judgmen t agains t yo u o r agains t Precision ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Agains t me . JUDG E GOODWIN : You , personally . Ho wmuc hi s tha t judgment ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Lik e 50-some . JUDG E GOODWIN : Fift ythousand ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . See , I
use dt o d o wit hAmerica nExpres s a naverag e o f 50,

- t o 75,00 0 a mont h—

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - whe nI wa s abl e t o work . Bu t whe nI go t burned , that' s it .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I mea n- - s o it' s - - it' s lik e - - I ha dthing s

goin g right . I go t hit .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : No wI' mstartin g again . An dI jus t nee d--

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Well , bu t - - MR . PERSEKIAN : —a break . JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . Le t - - wha t woul dhappe ni f th e FAAget s a judgmen t agains t th e compan yfo r $20,000 ?

MR . PERSEKIAN ; Well , I don' t know . I mea n- - I mean , th e compan ya s a compan ydoesn' t hav e much .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . Wh o own s th e tools ?

tools . MR . PERSEKIAN ; There' s n o wor k

JUDG E GOODWIN : O r —bu t yo u - - well , yo u mentione dwhe nyo u use dt o buil d thes e fixtures , tha t - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Uh-huh . JUDG EGOODWIN : yo u- - yo u

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 know , yo u ha dtool s An dthere' s a n

indicatio nther e wer e ladder s an dstuff . Di d thos e belon g t o th e individua l craftsmen , o r d o thos e belon g t o yo u personally ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Som e o f the m- - mos t o f the mwer e stolen .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : Afte r I go t i nth e hospital , w e ha da - - a disaster . An d a lo t
o f stuf f wer e stole nthen .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , di dyo u hav e a traile r tha t yo u - - o r a workshe dtha t yo u kep t everythin g in ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : I ca nrelat e t o that , becaus e I wor k don e o nm yhouse . An d th e gentlema nshowe du p on e da ywit hn o trailer . MR . PERSEKIAN : Right .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Somebod ystol e hi s traile r ou t o f hi s - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : - - fron t yard , MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : Everythin g h e owned . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dlik e ever y tim e w e woul dg o somewher e else , w e woul d hav e tool s missing . W e woul dhav e saw s missing . We' dhav e t o g o ou t an dbu yi t agai n- -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - fo r ever yjob . Bu t thi s time , it' s lik e there' s nothing . S o lik e wha t I' mdoin g no wi s i f I ge t a jo bfro m You r Hono r - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN ; I kno wm y peopl e i nth e industry , I migh t g o tel l the m buil dm e this . I go t i t fro mhi mfo r 10 0 an d sel l i t t o You r Hono r fo r 120 , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : —an dI mak e 2 0 bucks . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Mr . Black ,

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ar e ther e an yquestion s tha t you' dlik e t o as k

o f Mr . Persekian ?

MR . BLACK : Well , ther e ar e som e question s fo r Mr . Persekian . An dI' dlik e t o jus t sor t o f clarify , perhaps , - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . BLACK : document s tha t w e have , som e o f th e

W e d o hav e a cop yo f th e judgmen t tha t wa s issue dagains t Mr . Persekia ni nfavo r o f America nExpress . It' s fo r - - almos t - - jus t shy$54,000 . I t wa s issue db yth e - - b y th e cour t - - th e Superio r Cour t i nWalnu t Creek , I believ e i t is , o nMa y11t ho f 2010 .

JUDG E GOODWIN : An dit' s agains t hi mpersonally ?

MR . BLACK : It' s agains t hi m personally . Bu t I d o no t hav e an yothe r credi t
car dstatements .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . BLACK : --o r anythin g o f tha t

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### 6 0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 nature . A s fa r a s the documentatio nabou t

Precisio nDisplays ' abilit yt o pay , I mus t not e fo r th e recor dtha t w e wer e quit e activ e i nattempting t o ge t tha t materia l fro m Precisio nDisplays .

I nfact , tha t wa s a matte r tha t wa s - - resulte di nthe orde r t o sho wcaus e tha t You r Hono r issued , yo u know , earl yJuly . Andw e receive dverylimite d informatio n directl yabou t Precisio nDisplay s i nrespons e t o tha t orde r t o sho wcause .

I - - certainl yth e Agenc yi s willin g t o loo k a t additiona l documentation , i f the Cour t feel s tha t tha t woul d b e helpfu l t o it s decisio ni nthi s case .

However , thi s i s th e time fo r th e

- - thos e subject s t o b e explored . And I hav e no t see n- - Mr . Persekia ncertainl yha s bee n o nadequat e notic e t o b e abl e t o explai nt o th e Cour t abou t hi s company' s financia l condition .

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### 6 1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Andh e ha s provide d nothin g othe r

thanhi s ora l testimon yabou t th e healt h concern s tha t h e an d hi s famil yhav e gon e through , busines s difficultie s tha t h e ha s experienced .

Bu t i t woul dseemquit e apparen t tha t thos e - - tha t the financia l matter s ar e verysusceptibl e t o reporting . H e ha s a n accountan t tha t h e work s wit hroutinely . And h e ha s no t provide d anything specifi c from tha t accountan t o nPrecisio nDisplays ' abilit y t o pay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I understand that . Andit' s certainl yRespondent' s burde n a t thi s point . Bu t I als o believ e that , a s a matte r o f du e proces s i na nadministrativ e proceedin g - - - - wha t I' m toying wit hdoing i s issuing a norde r wit ha fairl yshor t turnaround , And i f there' s n o respons e t o that , th e Cour t wil l procee d accordingly . I f there' s a response , I'l l giv e th e opportunit y

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 t o revie wit . I' mno t tellin g yo u t o d o o r

no t d o anythin g a t all . An dthe nwe'll , yo u know , se e wher e i t is .

Yes , sir ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Ma yI approach ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Sho wi t t o Mr . Black . MR . PERSEKIAN ; Mr . Blac k ha s a cop yo f al l these .

MR . BLACK : Well , I hav e neve r see nthis . I don' t kno wtha t I'v e - - I don' t believ e I'v e see nthis .

MR . PERSEKIAN : I t wa s par t o f th e packag e I sent .

MR . BLACK : Well , I don' t - - I believ e I'v e see nthi s docioment .

There' s a mix . You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Yo u don' t hav e a noffic e i nthi s building , d o you ?

MR . BLACK : W e d o not . JUDG E GOODWIN : I forge t wher e you r offic e is , o r i s i t - - or , yo u don' t hav e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 on e here ?

here . MR . BLACK : W e don' t hav e on e

JUDG E GOODWIN : That' s wh yyou'r e

MR . BLACK : Lo s Angele s JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , okay . An d Seattl e still .

MR . BLACK ; You r Honor , i nth e packag e o f document s tha t Mr . Persekia nha s jus t hande dt o me , I hav e - - I hav e reviewe d
som e an dperhap s eve nmos t o f thes e document s previously , bu t no t al l o f them .

JUDG E GOODWIN : A t thi s poin t i s ther e anythin g els e furthe r fro mth e Agency ?

MR . BLACK : No , You r Honor . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Okay , Mr . Persekian , a t thi s stag e I hav e issue da sho w cause , okay , t o presen t evidence .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Sorry ? JUDG E GOODWIN : It' s a due-proces s issu e wher e - - thi s i s a nadministrativ e

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### 6 4

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 proceeding . You'v e presente da nargumen t tha t

I think the Cour t shoul d consider . I' m no t sur e tha t I actuall yhav e th e abilit yt o d o so . Wha t I think I' mgoing t o d o i n thi s cas e i s I' mgoing t o generat e a norder , Mr . Persekian , instructing yo u t o provid e t o Mr . Blac k withi ntwo week s - - I'l l tak e a loo k a t m ycalendar . Andveryhonestly , Mr . Black , on e o f th e reason s I' mdoing thi s i s th e ol d adage : Yo u can' t squeez e bloo d ou t o f a turnip . Wha t I wan t yo u t o d o b y3 September , Mr . Persekian , - - and I wil l pu t thi s i nanorde r - - i s t o provid e t o Mr . Blac k taxreturn s fo r Precisio nDisplay s - - and I bette r writ e thi s dow n- - fo r 2007 , 2008 , and 2009 , realizing tha t some o f thi s ma yb e repetitious , copie s o f mos t recen t - - and the taxreturn s ar e fo r bot hPrecisio nDisplayand yo u individually .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN ; - copie s o f mos t
recen t credi t car dstatement s fo r th e sam e year s MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e las t —

JUDG E GOODWIN : thre e years . Okay ?

MR . PERSEKIAN ; credi t cards ? Jus t th e las t

Wha t ar e th e

JUDG E GOODWIN : Credi t card s I' d lik e - - I' dlov e yo u provid e th e mos t recen t credi t car dstatements .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e las t one ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Ye s MR . PERSEKIAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Unles s yo u thin k yo u nee dprio r ones , Mr . Black ?

MR . BLACK : No . Th e mos t recen t thre e year s woul db e sufficient . You r Honor ,

MR . PERSEKIAN : Thre e years ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , d o yo u wan t th e mos t recen t o r th e mos t recen t thre e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 years , becaus e tha t coul d b e a bundle ?

year s MR . BLACK : Th e mos t recen t thre e

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN ; Yo u wan t m e t o mak e copie s o f al l thre e years ?

MR . BLACK : I believ e that' s wha t the Judg e i s suggesting .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . Mos t credi t car dcompanie s wil l giv e yo u a nannua l statemen t MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o rathe r - - i f yo u hav e a nannua l statemen t from'08 , I'l l as k yo u t o provid e that . Otherwise , yo u know , fo r the months . Wha t we'r e trying t o d o i s se e wha t the busines s looke d like . You r argumen t is : I agre e tha t w e di dsomething w e shouldn' t hav e done , yo u know , and i t wa s a n anomaly , bu t I can' t pay .

Th e proble mi s you'v e go t the burde no f - -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Proo f JUDG E GOODWIN ; yo u can' t pay . S o - -

MR . PERSEKIAN ; interrupt , bu t - - showin g tha t

Sorr yt o

JUDG E GOODWIN : G o ahead . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - ho wabou t i f I cal l th e credi t car dcompanie s an dthe ynee d
mor e tim e tha ntha t t o sen dm e copies ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , le t m e ge t t o that . You r - - bu t you r accountan t shoul d hav e thi s stuff . Okay ?

S o wha t I' mgoin g t o as k yo u t o d o i s eithe r t o provid e annua l credi t car d statement s fo r '07 , '08 , an d'09 . An di f yo u don' t hav e that , the nth e monthl ystatement , -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - okay ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I'l l tr yt o ge t a s muc ha s I can .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . No wd o yo u

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 provid e you r accountan t wit hinformatio no na n

ongoin g basis , o r jus t whe nyo u ge t t o th e en d
o f th e year ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : No , ongoin g basis . JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t sor t o f record s hav e yo u give nyou r accountan t fo r thi s year ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Sales , purchases .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . I' dlik e th e accountan t t o provid e - - I don' t wan t hi m t o sen dyo u - - I mean , i f I as k hi mt o sen d everything , Mr . Black , yo u ma yge t boxe s o f stuff .

- - a t leas t a summar yo f you r 201 0

loss ? MR . PERSEKIAN : Lik e profi t an d

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . I f i t come s fro mth e accountant , Mr . Black , I' mles s concerne dabou t anomalie s

MR . PERSEKIAN : Lik e profi t an d loss , right ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , sir . MR . PERSEKIAN : Okay , JUDG E GOODWIN : Fo r 201 0 t o dat e MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , let' s sa y throug h1 July .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Okay . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , becaus e - - MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e en do f July . JUDG E GOODWIN : —that' s goin g t o b e a movin g target .

MR . BLACK : S o fo r th e firs t si x month s o f 2010 ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . No wca nyo u thin k o f a - - i f yo u ge t th e ta xreturns , i f yo u ge t th e credi t car dreceipts , i f yo u ge t th e P an dL fo r th e si x- - fo r si xmonths.. .

MR . BLACK : We'l l certainl y conside r anythin g tha t h e ca nprovide .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes , that' s - - MR . BLACK : Tha t woul db e superio r t o wha t w e hav e t o thi s point .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN ; That' s al l I' m

askin g yo u t o do . An dI' mno t tellin g yo u eithe r way . Yo u know , wha t I' mgoin g t o as k yo u - - onc e yo u ge t th e info

- - - onc e - - wha t I' dlik e yo u t o d o th e wee k afte r th e 3r d- -

Mr . Persekian , I' mgoin g t o - - I' m goin g t o ge t ou t a norder . Bu t I' mputtin g yo u o nnotic e no wa s t o wha t I wan t yo u t o do .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , si r JUDG E GOODWIN ; - - whic hi s th e ta xreturn s fo r th e Precisio nDispla yan dyo u individuall y- -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN ; fo r '07 , '08 , an d'09 . I wan t credi t car dstatements , th e annua l statement s fo r '07 , '08 , an d'09 . I f yo u don' t hav e those , the nth e monthl y statements . I wan t th e profi t an dlos s statemen t fo r th e firs t si xmonth s o f 2010 .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir . JUDG EGOODWIN : Istil lcan' t ge t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 use dt o whethe r it' s twent yan dte no r tw o

thousan dan dten .

An dI wan t thos e t o Mr . Blac k b y Septembe r 3rd .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : No wi f yo u can' t ge t information , the nI wan t yo u t o communicat e wit hMr . Black , al l right , understandin g tha t he' s i nAnchorag e an d you'r e here .

MR . PERSEKIAN : W e - - w e talk . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : I talke dt o hi mb y phon e a fe wtimes .

JUDG E GOODWIN : The nwha t I' dlik e yo u t o do , Mr . Black , i s le t m e kno wo no r abou t th e 10t hwhethe r yo u go t - - wha t informatio nyou'v e gotten . An dth e reaso nI' m doin g tha t is , i s there' s a generic-communicatio nissu e tha t ha s nothin g t o d o wit hthi s case .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-h\im .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : An dI ca nspea k

onl yfo r m yoffice .

Becaus e o f th e tim e differentia l I kno wfo r a fac t tha t w e wil l pu t somethin g i n th e mai l i nWashington , D.C . tha t Mr . Blac k
ma yno t se e fo r a nextende dperio do f time .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly . JUDG E GOODWIN : I woul dencourag e yo u --d o yo u hav e a compan yFedera l Express ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes , sir . JUDG E GOODWIN : I woul dencourag e yo u t o Federa l Expres s whateve r yo u hav e t o Mr . Black . MR . PERSEKIAN : Absolutely .

JUDG E GOODWIN : No wi f yo u —i f h e need s a reasonabl e extensio no f time , I'l l
as k yo u t o conside r it . I' mno t instructin g yo u t o d o anything .

MR . BLACK ; We'r e amenabl e t o that , a s lon g a s w e se e progress . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . An dno w- - an dbecaus e th e credi t car dma yhav e - - and .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 o f course , w e don' t kno wwha t stat e th e

accountant' s i n righ t now .

The nwha t we'r e going t o do , Mr . Persekian , i s I' mgoing t o assum e tha t everything i s going t o g o well . Mr . Blac k wil l hav e everything b yth e 3rd . He'l l le t m e kno wb yth e 10th . I wil l the npu t int o th e proces s m ydecision , whateve r I' mgoing t o do . No w I'l l b e hones t wit hyou . I' m goin g t o b e i n Japa nthe firs t wee k from th e 14t hthroughth e 23rdo f September . I'v e go t a n obligatio ni n Chicag o tha t weekend . I' mno t goin g t o ge t t o thi s cas e unti l o n o r abou t th e 1s t o f October . Andhaving sai d that , I'v e go t t o come u p wit hthe firs t wee k i n Octobe r - - th e secondwee k i n October . S o I'l l tel l yo u both , you'r e no t going t o ge t a decisio no n Septembe r 11th , jus t becaus e o f what' s going
on , 

### Bu

t th ecutof

f date , absen t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 agreemen t b yMr . Black , i s tha t you'r e goin g

t o ge t al l thi s stuf f t o hi mb yth e 3r do f September . He'l l le t m e kno wb yth e 10th . The nI'l l pu t thi s i nth e process .

An dI' mno t goin g t o giv e yo u a deadline , Mr . Black . I f yo u decid e yo u don' t
wan t t o d o something , that' s fine . I f yo u decid e yo u d o wan t t o d o something , that' s fine , u p unti l th e poin t tha t I pu t m y signatur e o na decision . An d3r dplu s 3 0 days , I' mwillin g t o d o anythin g tha t yo u an d th e Responden t ar e willin g t o do .

MR . BLACK : Al l right . JUDG E GOODWIN : I hav e - - onc e I hav e issu e a decision , Mr . Persekia n- - I kee p lookin g t o mak e sur e I pronounc e i t correctly , oka y- - I onl yhav e jurisdictio nove r th e cas e
u p t o 3 0 day s afte r I issu e a nopinion . I ca n d o anythin g I wan t to . Afte r 3 0 days , I los e jurisdiction .

S o onc e m ydecisio ni s issued , I hav e 3 0 day s t o reconside r i f I wan t t o d o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 somethin g o r i f I don' t wan t t o d o anything .

Afte r tha t it' s i nth e hand s o f th e appellat e bod ya t th e FAA , i f someon e appeals .

G o ahead . MR . PERSEKIAN : Okay . Acoupl e things . I kno wfo r a fact , i f I reques t any documentatio nfro mth e credi t car dcompanies , I wil l no t ge t i t b ySeptembe r 3rd .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I understan d that . Bu t wha t I' maskin g yo u t o d o - - an dI don' t kno wyou r accountant , an dI don' t kno w wha t you r book s ar e like , bu t there' s - - I suspec t there' s a possibilit ytha t you r accountan t ma yhav e som e o f thi s information .

MR . PERSEKIAN : I' msur e h e does . JUDG E GOODWIN : An da cal l toda y-

- an dI woul dencourag e yo u t o hav e you r accountan t cal l Mr . Black . Yo u know . obviousl yyou r accountan t work s fo r you . He' s no t goin g t o disclose .

Bu t i f h e doesn' t hav e ite mAtha t yo u need , Mr . Black , h e ma yhav e ite mB , whic h

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 give s yo u th e sam e information , MR . BLACK : Correct , You r Honor . W e ca nb e - - w e ca nwor k wit hth e accountant . i f nee dbe , JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah . An di f
s o wha t

I' msayin g i s let' s assum e tha t yo u canno t ge t th e annua l statements . I f you r accountan t talk s t o Mr . Black , an dyou r accountan t says : Well , I don' t hav e th e annua l statement s either , bu t I'v e go t som e othe r document , i t ma yb e a documen t tha t you r accountant s generate .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Al l right . JUDG E GOODWIN ; I f Mr . Blac k i s happ ywit hthat , I thin k I don' t car e wha t - - wha t th e tw o o f yo u rel yon . But , yo u know , th e proble mwit his , w e ge t bac k t o th e poin t tha t yo u hav e t o demonstrat e t o th e Cour t th e inabilit yt o pay .

An drigh t no wwe'v e go t fragmente d record s an d- - okay . And , frankly , i f I ha d t o mak e a decisio ntoda yo nth e record s tha t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I'v e got , yo u know , yo u haven' t presente da

compellin g - - yo u presente da nemotiona l argument , bu t yo u haven' t presente d necessaril ya lega l argumen t upo nwhic hI ca n mak e a decisio ntha t yo u migh t loo k upo n favorably . MR . PERSEKIAN : I - - I understand . You r Honor . An dI mea non e o f th e reason s i s

m yinexperienc e

JUDG E GOODWIN ; You'r e no t a lawyer . An d- - no r woul dyo u wan t m e wit ha hamme r an dsa wdoin g wha t you'r e doing . Okay ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly . JUDG E GOODWIN : S o I use dt o tel l

m yclients : I' ma lawyer . I g o int o cour t - - whe nI use dt o tr ycase s lik e Mr . Black . I' m i nth e courtroo mever yday . Tha t doesn' t mea n tha t yo u can' t com e i nan dpresen t th e cas e

Bu t it' s lik e I d o i t al l th e time . Yo u wor k wit ha hamme r an dsa wi n design s ever yday . I coul dprobabl ybuil da cabine t - - you' dprobabl ylaug hfo r days , bu t

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### 7 8

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 I ca nbuil done . And i t woul d probabl ytak e

m e month s t o d o something yo u coul d d o i na day . MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly . And , I mean , I considere d havin g a lawye r represen t me , bu t I jus t - •

JUDG E GOODWIN : Lawyer s ar e expensive . MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Mr . Blac k and I ca ntel l yo u that .

MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s that' s - that' s the primary- - that' s wh yI' m representing myself . AndI appreciat e al l th e hel p tha t I' mgetting fromMr . Blac k andfro m You r Hono r JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , i t - - I mean , le t m e jus t sayt o bot ho f you , obviousl yyou'r e communicating . You'r e getting along . And Mr . Black' s go t a jobt o do ; yo u hav e a jo bt o do .

MR . PERSEKIAN : I - - I understand .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 On e mor e poin t I' dlik e t o raise . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yes . MR . PERSEKIAN : I nth e five item s tha t Mr . Blac k mentioned , on e o f themwa s ther e wa s n o emergenc yphon e numbe r o nthe for mw e presente d t o Alask a Airlines . Anda s a standar dw e alway s pu t phon e number s o nthi s
one . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Yo u sai dtha t Bu t you'v e go t t o understandi nhazardou s materia l there' s a specia l form . See , th e proble mwit hhazardou s materia l informatio n- - andthi s al l goe s bac k t o th e Ai r Florid a case . Ther e wa s a - - Mr . Black , wha t wa s airline r tha t - - well , ther e wa s a UP S fligh t tha t burne du

p o nth e ground . Ther e wa s - - ther e wa s a landing i nSacrament o wher e - - i t wa s eithe r Airborn e o r on e o f thos e lande d o n fire . I t wa s a carg o plane . That' s the reaso ntha t yo u migh t loo k a t the requirements . It' s lik e wh ywoul d I hav e t o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 d o that ? Well , it' s becaus e th e gu yo r lad

y a t th e FedE xfacilit yi nIndianapolis , Indian a wh o see s you r bo xdoesn' t kno wanything abou t you , doesn' t kno wanything abou t Mr . Black .

I mea nthey'r e looking a t a box . Andi f th e bo xsay s anything o nthi s long lis t yo u ha dcertai nregulatorything s tha t yo u ha d t o pu t downther e o nth e for m i na forma t tha t theyca nread s o tha t theyca nmak e judgmenta l decisions . And yo u hav e sai d tha t ther e wa s a phon e numbe r o na for mwit hth e shipment . I' m assuming tha t that' s correct , bu t tha t doesn' t mea ntha t i t meet s th e regulatory requirements , - -

MR . BLACK : Right , I - - JUDG E GOODWIN : —yo u know . And that' s - - that' s mitigation .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yeah . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : I wasn' t there , s o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I understan d

that . An dI - - I ha da cas e i nHawai i wher e a gentlema ni s Filipin o an dlike dt o wor k wit h wood . An dhe , i nhi s carry-o nbag , ha dwoo d hardene r an dsomethin g else . An dh e wa s o n th e wa yt o hi s hom e i nth e Philippine s t o d o som e work . H e didn' t kno whazma t fro m anything , An dwhe nth e TS Apeopl e picke di t out , h e apologized , calle dhi s son . Hi s so n cam e an dpicke di t up . Bu t th e regulation s require dtha t I impos e a fine , whic hI did . No wa s i t turn s out , th e amoun t go t reduced .

Yo u know , again , I can' t d o equity . I hav e t o dea l wit hfacts . I hav e t o dea l wit hth e law . Tha t wa s a cas e wher e th e ma nwas , a t best , marginall yliterate . Yo u know , al l h e kne wwa s h e worke dwit hwoo d hardene r i nhi s woo dsho p i nhi s hous e i n Hawaii . An dh e wante dt o fl yt o hi s hom e i n th e Philippine s t o continu e working .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Th e proble mi s tha t 3 0 - - a s th e

fligh t crew s wil l tel l yo u a t 36,00 0 fee t the ga s fro

ma butan e lighter , i f cause dt o ignite , cause s a catastrophe . Andi t isn' t wha t you'r e shipping necessarily . It' s wha t yo u shi p i nconjunctio nwit hwha t Mr . Blac k - -

Andi f yo u nee d t o stand up , yo u know , standu

p and wal k around . I ca nse e - - MR . PERSEKIAN : Thank you . JUDG E GOODWIN ; you'r e beginnin g t o flinch ,

Ands o I'v

e ha d a numbe r o f agent s testify , i t isn' t tha t wha t yo u sai d i s necessaril yi nand o f itsel f tha t i t cause d a catastrophe . It' s tha t yo u shi p something , Mr . Blac k ship s something , andI shi p something . And th e thre e o f themleak a t 3 6,00 0 feet , yo u know , andthat' s - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : I — I understand everything , and I perceiv e everything . And I reall yfee l veryba d fo r wha t happened . And I thank Go dtha t thi s neve r go t o na plan e and

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 cause da catastrophe , yo u know . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , MR . PERSEKIAN : But , yo u know , it' s lik e on e o f thes e things , I wasn' t there . I can' t contro l - - I can' t d o anythin g abou t it . An dthere' s - - there' s on e othe r poin t I' dlik e t o discus s wit hyou , i f possible , JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , bu t le t m e as k you : I s - - d o yo u wan t m e t o tak e a brea k fo r a coupl e o f minute s s o yo u ca nwal k - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : No , I' mfine . JUDG E GOODWIN : You'r e sure ? MR . PERSEKIAN : t o wast e you r time . I' mfin e I don' t wan t

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , I ge t paid , an dMr . Blac k enjoy s Sa nFrancisco . It' s no t Alaska , bu t h e enjoy s Sa nFrancisco .

MR . BLACK : No , I' mfro mhere , s o

MR . PERSEKIAN : I jus t wan t - -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : Oh , that' s righ t

I ha dforgotte ntha t

MR . BLACK : Yeah , JUDG E GOODWIN : That' s righ t MR . PERSEKIAN ; He' s fro mSant a Clara , right ?

MR . BLACK : I wa s bor ni nSant a Clar a an dgre wu p i nMountai nVie wan d Danville . MR . PERSEKIAN : Th e - - th e othe r thin g i s Mr . Blac k wa s showin g m e th e schedul e tha t the yar e lookin g at . An dfo r thes e fines , i f yo u ar e considere da s a nindividual . o r a compan y--

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN ; rate s ar e muc hdifferen t - - th e th e An dI wa s mentionin g i t t o Mr . Black , th e onl yreaso n tha t w e shi p a s a company , i s tha t i f yo u ar e no t a recognize dshippe r a s a compan yb yth e airlin e the ywil l no t tak e you r freight . S o I wa s askin g - -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN ; Well , that' s - •

that' s somethin g fo r Mr . Blac k t o consider .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly . JUDG E GOODWIN : But , again , that' s on e o nth e context , yo u know , o f everything . Bu t th e proble mi s you'v e go t t o ge t bac k t o th e regs . Thi s i s wher e I' mstuck .

Congres s give s m e a se t o f regulations , a s modifie db yth e Departmen t an d b yth e Federa l Aviatio nAdministration . I can' t - - yo u know , i f ther e - - i f there' s a n ambiguity , I'v e go t som e flexibility . Bu t i f ther e isn' t anyambiguity, I' mstuc k wit hwha t th e re g say s versu s wha t th e fact s are .

An di f th e document s sho wtha t a compan yshippe dit , I mean , I appreciat e th e fac t tha t yo u hav e use dth e compan ynam e t o ge t i t o nth e aircraft , becaus e the ywouldn' t tak e a shipmen t fro mRober t Persekian .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Exactly . JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t that' s —th e la wsay s i f you'r e a compan yan dyo u d o this .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 yo u know , thi s i s th e result . MR . PERSEKIAN : Well , - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Bu t I thin k i f - - th e fai r thin g fo r yo u t o - - i f you'l l ge t thos e document s t o Mr . Blac k a s quickl ya s yo u can , - - MR . PERSEKIAN : I wil l d o m ybest .

JUDG E GOODWIN : - - yo u know , I'l l

- - I kno wMr . Blac k wil l tak e - - h e wil l loo k
a t them . H e wil l mak e a decisio nh e feel s i s appropriate . An d i f th e tw o - - i f yo u can' t
reac ha n accommodation , the nI'l l d o wha t the y pa ym e t o do .

MR . BLACK : You r Honor , o n - - wit h regar dt o th e informatio ntha t Mr . Persekia n ha s bee ndirecte dt o provid e t o us , I d o - - h e ha s provide du s a profi t an d los s statemen t fo r Mayolo , Inc. , whic hwa s actuall yfo r th e si x- - firs t si xmonth s o f thi s year .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . BLACK : An d s o m yquestio nis , i s i f yo u have , no wbein g directe db yth e

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Judg e t o prepar e on e fo r Precisio nDisplays ,

i s i t likel yt o b e an ydifferen t tha nthi s profi t an dlos s statement , o r i s i t goin g t o b e th e same ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Somethin g ver y clos e t o it , yeah .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Wha t othe r entitie s ar e unde r - •

now . MR . BLACK : Mayolo ?

JUDG E GOODWIN : - - Mayolo ? MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s it , fo r

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o Mayol o - - th e onl ycompanie s tha t ar e unde r tha t i s Precisio nDisplay ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Whe nthi s thin g happened , yes .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Ho wabou t i n2 010 ? MR . PERSEKIAN : I n2010 , yes . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . S o yo u don' t hav e anothe r entit ythat' s makin g million s o f dollar s - -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : No , JUDG E GOODWIN : tha t work s unde r Mayolo ?

we'r e - • MR . PERSEKIAN : I wish .

JUDG E GOODWIN : I' msur e yo u do . MR . PERSEKIAN : An dI —I wis h

JUDG E GOODWIN : I'l l leav e tha t - - MR . PERSEKIAN : —w e —we'r e - - JUDG E GOODWIN : - - t o you , Mr . Black . I f you'r e willin g t o accep t that , that' s fine .

MR . BLACK : Well , I - - I d o accep t it . It' s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : What' s i t show ? MR . BLACK : I nspeakin g t o Mr . Persekia nearlier , mayb e tw o week s ago , i t di d
soun dtha t h e ha s attempte dt o shif t busines s fro mPrecisio nDisplay s t o othe r businesse s i n hi s - - unde r hi s control . I stil l don' t quit e understan dwha t thi s Mayolo , Inc . is .

An ds o i f I receiv e a - - a profi t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 an dlos s statemen t that' s simila r t o it , I' m

goin g t o questio nwhethe r that' s reall yth e entit ytha t th e FAAi s bringin g it s cas e agains t here .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . Well , that' s a nissu e yo u nee dt o loo k at . Bu t I' m no t goin g t o - -

MR . BLACK : And , secondly , i f yo u d o a - - i f yo u d o som e simpl e interne t
researc hfo r Precisio nDisplay s an dTools , yo u wil l se e tha t compan yha s a website .

Bu t I believ e tha t Mr . Persekia n tol dm e tha t h e ha s a t leas t on e othe r compan y wit ha simila r name . Perhap s i t wa s Precisio n Displa y- - Precisio nTools , o r Precisio n Cabinets , o r - - I thin k h e use s tha t nam e Precisio ni nothe r capacities . I t woul db e helpfu l fo r m yperspectiv e t o b e abl e t o trac k al l o f this .

JUDG E GOODWIN : D o yo u ow nany othe r companies , Mr . Persekian ?

MR . PERSEKIAN ; I'l l explai nt o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 you , - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - You r Honor , Th e compan yuse dt o b e calle dt o Precisio n Jewelr yTool s an d Supply .

JUDG E GOODWIN ; That' s wha t i t
use dt o b e called ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : The nth e tha t compan ygo t closed , an d w e starte da differen t compan yunde r Precisio nDisplay s an d Tools .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN ; The nth e wor d "Tools, " starte dconfusin g peopl e an d starte d bein g ba d fo r busines s withi ntha t an d - - wit h Precisio nDisplay s an d Cabinet .

JUDG E GOODWIN : S o - - MR . PERSEKIAN : An d no ww e cal l i t Precisio nDisplays .

JUDG E GOODWIN : No w— MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s all . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - let' s g o bac k t o '0 8

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Um-hum . JUDG E GOODWIN : Whe nyo u wer e i n Alask a doin g wor k - - wer e yo u ther e --o r you r people ? I understan dtha t - - wa s i t Precisio n Display s tha t wa s doin g wor k i nAlaska ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . JUDG E GOODWIN ; Wa s i t th e Precisio nDisplay s tha t wa s tryin g t o shi p thing s bac k t o th e state s a t th e en do f th e
wor k -- MR . PERSEKIAN : Ye s

JUDG E GOODWIN : —whil e yo u wer e i nth e hospital ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Ye s JUDG E GOODWIN ; Wasn' t Precisio n Jewelr yyou r - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Well , Precisio n Jewelr yTool s an dSupplie s - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - i s th e for mw e hav e t o pu t - - wa s th e nam e w e hav e t o pu t o n th e form s wit hth e FAA , becaus e thi s i s ho w

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 the ykno wu s a s a recognize dshipper . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : I f w e pu t i t i n an ydifferen t - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : The ydon' t kno w wh o yo u are .

MR . PERSEKIAN ; the nthe ysay ; W e don' t kno wyou . W e don' t tak e you r load . S o al l along , eve nw e ha dth e problem , becaus e
w e move dlocatio nfro mJune . An don e tim e w e go t stuck , becaus e the ysa yw e hav e you r ol d addres s here . I f yo u hav e a - - th e ne w addres s w e wil l no t tak e i t fro myou .

I mean , the yar e s o particular , an dthe yar e s o stric t tha t an ywa yw e writ e it , w e hav e t o writ e Precisio nJewelr yTool s an dSupplies . W e can' t tel l the mth e nam e ha s change dt o Precisio nDisplays . The ysaid , no . i t i s -- JUDG

EGOODWIN : Hav eyo ueve r change dth earticle s o f incorporation ; d o yo u know ?

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : Yeah , JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . Wha t d o th e article s o f incorporatio nsa ynow ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Precisio nDisplay s an dCabinet s

JUDG E GOODWIN ; Okay . Bu t th e proble mi s tha t the ydon' t - - th e FAAdoesn' t kno wwh o the yare , o r - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : The y—the y- -

whoever ? JUDG E GOODWIN :

MR . PERSEKIAN ; TSA , o r

bu t th e FAA say s No , i f i t doesn' t rea dPrecisio n Jewelr yTool s an dSupplies , w e wil l no t d o busines s wit hyou . W e canno t tak e i t fro m you . JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , ther e i s a lega l mess . I'l l allo wyo u t o sor t throug h this . MR . BLACK : Well , i nthi s particula r case , however , di dno t - - di dno t th e compan y- - let' s se e

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### 9 4

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Th e waybil l o n- - th e Alask a

Airline s waybil l tha t th e Cour t wil l hav e i n it s recor dreads : Precisio nJewelry/T .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Tools . MR . BLACK : Okay . And the no nth e the shipping addres s i s Precisio n Displays/T . Tha t wa s i nSa nDiego .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Thi s mean s "an d Tools. " MR . BLACK : Okay . D o yo u think tha t wa s jus t ho wtheytype dit ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yes . MR . BLACK : And the n—bu t fo r th e accounting informatio nfo r Alask a Ai r cargo , it' s Precisio nJewelryToo l and Supply ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Thi s i s ho wthey hav e i t a s a know

nshippe r wit hth e TSA . JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . And i f yo u

MR . BLACK : Bu t i f yo u wer e t o continu e busines s today , wha t woul dyo u cal l you r company ?

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# r ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Display s

Displays ? MR . PERSEKIAN ;

MR . BLACK : Precisio n

Jus t Precisio n

MR . PERSEKIAN : Right . That' s ho w
w e cal l it , an dthat' s wha t we'v e bee ncallin g it . And , b yth e way , w e trie dt o chang e tha t nam e wit hth e TSA , bu t i t look s lik e it' s a whol e proces s b yitsel f tha t w e said , yo u know , w e don' t wan t t o touc hit , becaus e it' s okay . We'l l jus t - - yo u wan t m e t o cal l thi s red , I'l l cal l i t red .

Th e ide a i s t o ge t wha t I want . Becaus e t o me , i f yo u cal l i t Precisio n Display s o r Precisio nJewelr yTool s an d Supplies , al l I nee di s t o ge t thi s packag e fro mpoin t At o poin t B .

understand . JUDG E GOODWIN : Al l righ t

MR . BLACK : And , i f I —an di f I



### - Irealize dth eCour t ha s aske dwhethe r

I

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 hav e anyfurthe r questio no f Mr . Persekian , JUDG E GOODWIN : Sur e MR . BLACK ; I d o hav e on e othe r - • • - an dI sai dno . Bu t

JUDG E GOODWIN : Sure , g o ahead . MR . BLACK : Doe s - - i nlookin g a t
som e o f th e financia l informatio ntha t yo u hav e supplie dt o u s fo r Mayolo , i t indicate s tha t ther e i s a grocer ystor e o f som e sort ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Ther e use dt o be . MR . BLACK : Ther e use dt o be . Coul dyo u explai ntha t t o me ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : Well , Mayol o wa s th e nam e o f m ywife . An dbasicall ysh e use d t o ow na grocer ystor e tha t sh e sol dfiv e year s ago . MR . BLACK : Al l right . S o i f I — i f I se e informatio nfo r grocer ystores , tha t woul db e a t leas t fiv e year s ou t o f date ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s whe nsh e sol dth e store .

MR . BLACK : I s tha t a famil ynam e

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# f ^ 1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 fo r her , Mayolo ? MR . PERSEKIAN : That' s he r father' s name .

MR . BLACK : Okay . S o wa s tha t i n Englis hhe r maide nname ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : It' s he r father' s firs t name . MR . BLACK : He r father' s firs t
name . I see .

MR . PERSEKIAN : An dsh e - - ou t o f respec t fo r he r father , she' s usin g it . An d sh e wante dt o d o busines s unde r it , - -

MR . BLACK : Great . MR . PERSEKIAN : — an dI sai dI don' t care . MR . BLACK : Ver ygood . Than k you .

MR . PERSEKIAN : See , w e g o bac k t o th e sam e issue . I kno whe r t o mak e cabinets . That' s al l I know .

MR . BLACK : You r Honor , —that' s th e exten t o f m yquestions . You r Honor .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . That' s

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 fine . I s ther e anythin g els e yo u have ,

Mr . Persekian ?

MR . PERSEKIAN : I gues s - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Okay . MR . PERSEKIAN : No . I mea nI' m jus t lookin g forwar dt o pu t thi s behin dm e an d jus t - -

that' s - - JUDG E GOODWIN ; Okay , Well ,

MR . PERSEKIAN : - - procee dwit hm y life . JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . Okay . , I t migh t be , afte r w e g o of f th e record , yo u ma y wan t t o sho whi mth e pictur e tha t yo u gav e m e fro mMr . Deitz .

MR . BLACK : Yo u hav e th e onl y copy . S o i f w e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , no , - - MR . BLACK : --w e ca nb e sur e - - JUDG E GOODWIN : —yo u tak e i t back , an dthe nw e ca n- -

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . BLACK : Yeah . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - jus t - - i t ha s nothin g t o d o wit hthi s case . I ha da cas e i n Anchorag e a coupl e o f week s ago . An dth e investigato r wa s a Mr . Deit z - - I gues s th e sam e a s - - an dw e wer e talkin g abou t wha t ca n happen . An dwha t he' s don e i s there' s a pictur e - - I gues s thi s happene di nAnchorage ?

MR . BLACK : No , I thin k i t wa s i n Michigan . JUDG E GOODWIN : O f - - o f a - -

MR . BLACK : Th e wor dget s around . JUDG E GOODWIN : Yeah , bu t it' s - - i s thi s on e o f thos e lithiiimbatter ycases ?

MR . BLACK : Thi s wa s a ninducer . Someon e wa s tryin g t o chang e th e voltag e o na

- - I thin k the ywer e tryin g t o charg e thei r cellphon e of f o f a 12-vol t airplan e engin e - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Oh , fo r heaven' s sak e MR . BLACK : - - tha t go t warm , starte da fire . Th e gu ytake s th e ai r - - th e

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### 10 0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 gu

ydoesn' t hav e a fir e extinguishe r i nthe plan e because , according t o him , h e couldn' t imagin e the plan e eve r catching fire .

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . BLACK : And S O withou t tha t fir e extinguisher , h e probabl y- - th e insuranc e wa s probabl yvoid . Andh e ha s a brand-ne wplan e wit ha glas s cockpi t that' s wort hnothing . I t ha s nothing t o d o wit hthi s case , s o - - JUDG E GOODWIN : A s I judged , it' s mor e o f matte r o f info . There' s a narticl e i n USATodaytalking abou t lithiu mbatterie s and thei r propensit yt o self-combust .

MR . PERSEKIAN : Lithiu mbatteries ? JUDG E GOODWIN : Andth e • - I 

### didn' t kno wanything abou t it . And theysai d ther e wa s a flight , a nAmerica nAirline s fligh t o nth e wa yt o Brazi l tha t they- - th e fligh t attendant s confiscate d al l th e lithiu m batteries . And some gu yha d 5 0 o f themtha t -

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### 10 1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . PERSEKIAN : O nthe plane ? JUDG E GOODWIN : O nth e plan e The yfel t tha t wa s a littl e much . Bu t apparentl ythey'r e using cel l phones , and computers , and a numbe r o f othe r things . And fo r reason s n o on e ca nexplain , theywill , o n occasion , - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Explode . JUDG E GOODWIN : - - self-combust . MR . PERSEKIAN ; Mayb e th e altitudes , pressure .

MR . BLACK : AndS O i f yo u hav e - - lik e the Cour t wa s explaining earlier , i f yo u hav e on e perso nwh o ha s the lithiu mbatteryi n thei r bag , and the nth e nex t perso nhas , yo u know , the - - yo u know , the cam p stov e fuel , - - JUDG E GOODWIN : Butan e fuel . MR . BLACK : - - and the nth e nex t perso nhas , yo u know , thei r collectio no f - - thei r priz e collectio no f greas yrags , I mean , you'v e jus t go t terribl e situatio ntha t - - an y on e o f thos e migh t no t hav e bee nawful , bu t

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 the yca ncombin e MR . PERSEKIAN : I mea n- - M r Black , jus t fo r th e record , I understan d- -

tha t MR . BLACK :

MR . PERSEKIAN ; An dw e appreciat e

- - tha t the y th e validit yo f wha t you'r e comin g throug han d wha t you'r e tryin g t o do , I understan dan dI respec t that . An dbasicall yi f - - an dI kno w somethin g lik e tha t shoul dcarr ya penalty . I' mno t arguin g wit hthat .

Th e onl ythin g I' mtryin g t o sa y i s i f w e ca nd o i t i na wa ywher e I ca nb e abl e t o pay , that' s al l I' maskin g for . I' m-

JUDG E GOODWIN : Well , an dI thin k you'v e bee nver yclear . Ha dyo u bee nhere , thi s wouldn' t hav e happened . Jus t - - an dI thin k Mr . Blac k an dI se e mor e case s wher e yo u ge t th e campe r wh o i s of f o nvacation , who' s go t a butan e bottl e i nthei r carry-on , - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : Yeah .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E GOODWIN : - - s o it' s - - an d

yo u an dI kno wtha t - - I mea nyou , obviousl y you'r e sensitive , bu t it' s - -

MR . PERSEKIAN : An d- - an dth e fac t tha t we'v e bee ni nbusines s sinc e 199 1
an dnothin g happene dfro m199 1 - -

JUDG E GOODWIN : Right . MR . PERSEKIAN : - - t o 200 8 shoul d
sa ysomething .

JUDG E GOODWIN : No , i t does . I t doe s sa ysomething .

Okay . We'l l g o of f th e record . (Proceeding s wer e conclude da t 10:2 5 o'cloc k a.m. )

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40:1 4 40:16,1 8 61:9,1 1 67:1168:1,6,1 0 68:1 9 75:11,14,1 8 75:1 9 76:3,8, 9 accountant s 76:1 2 accountant' s 73: 2 accountin g 94:1 4 accumulate d21:1 9 51: 6 acknowledge s 20:1 2 Actio n1: 8 activ e60: 4 actua l21:2 2 adag e64:1 2 ad d13:1 0 additiona l60:1 4 addres s 22:141: 3 92:12,1 3 94: 6 adequat e60:2 0 adhesiv e12:1 5 15:1 3 16:1 6

Administratio n2: 2 2: 4 85:1 0 administrativ e 1:1 9 13:1 1 61:1 6 63:2 2 aerosol s 12:1 6 affor d31:2 040:1 6 43:1 3 Agency3: 8 11:1 0 11:2 1 17:123: 2 24:141: 7 60:1 3 63:1 5 Agency' s 9: 5 22:1 1 Agen t 9:1 3 agent s 82:1 2 aggregat e38: 8 ag o 16:1 288:1 7 96:1 6 99: 4 agre e66:1 8 agreemen t

74: 1 agricultur e7:1 1 ahea d10: 5 55: 6 67: 6 75: 4 96: 5 ai r 22: 5 41:1 4 79:1 3 94:1 4 99:2 2 Airborn e79:1 9 aircraft 12:1 4 16: 3 85:1 8 aircraft' s 15:1 6 airlin e84:2 1 airline r 79:1 6 airline s 12:2 213: 6 27:2 1 79: 6 94: 2 100:1 8 airplan e99:1 8 Alask a2: 9 12:2 2 13: 6 26:15,1 6 33:8,1146:16,1 8 79: 6 83:1 9 91:3, 5 94:1,1 4 Alaska n2: 7 aler t 12:2 2 allege d9: 4 allo w 10:1, 223: 6 30:1 9 93:1 8 altitude s 101:1 1 Alu m2:2 0

ambiguit y85:12,1 3 amenabl e72:1 9 AMERIC A1: 1 America n55:3,1 8 59:1 1 100:1 8 amoun t 23: 3 49:1 1 81:1 4 amount s 10: 9 26:2 1 analysi s 11:1 012: 5 analyze d18:1 5 analyzin g 18: 7 Anchorag e2: 9 9:1 7 71: 9 99:4, 8 Angele s 63: 6 ankl e45: 6 annua l66:10,1 4 67:1 4 70:1 7 76: 7 76:1 0 anomalie s 68:2 0 anomal y66:2 0 anticipate d21: 3 anybod y5: 1 apologize d81:1 1 apparen t 61: 6 apparentl y8:1 4 49: 2101: 4 appeal s 75: 3 APPEARANCE S 2: 1 appear s 41: 4 appellat e75: 2 appendi x10:10,1 4 11:1 9 13: 9 18: 5 applicabl e14:2 0 15: 1 appreciat e43: 7 78:1 4 85:1 6 102: 4 approac h62: 5 appropriat e18:2 2 86:1 1 are a14: 1 argu e42: 2 arguin g 102:1 1 argumen t

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brin g 3:2 1 26:1 6 bringin g 89: 3 bring s 22: 2 buck s 58:2 1 buil d33. 3 56:1 9 58:1 7 77:2178: 1 buildin g 1:14,2 1 24:1 4 62:1 9 bunc h3:1 6 bundl e66: 1 burde n22:1 251: 7 61:1 4 66:2 2 Bur n25:1 4 burne d25:1 9 26: 8 30:2 255:2 279:1 7 burn s 45:3, 5 burn t 25:1 2 Burto n1:1 3 busines s 11:1 6 18:17,2 019:5, 9 19:1 022:15,16,1 7 24:16,20,2 225: 2 25: 4 38:1 8 47: 1 49:13,16,1 9 52: 3 52:6, 9 61: 4 66:1 7 88:1 8 90:1 4 93:1 5 94:2197:1 2103: 5 businesse s 88:1 9 butan e82: 3 101:1 7 102:2 1 bu y58: 8 C C 1:1 8 10:10,2 1 11:1 9 13: 9 18: 5 18:1 8 cabine t 77:2 2 90:1 5 cabinet s 40: 7 89:1 6 93: 5 97:1 8 calenda r 64: 9 Californi a1:1 5 2:2 1 13:2 1 cal l11:2 227: 9 28: 7 67: 8 75:16,1 8 90:1 7 94:2 1 95: 6 95:13,13,1 5

calle d21:1145:1 7 81:1190:4, 7 callin g 95: 6 cam p 101:1 6 campe r 102:2 0 cance r 25:1 026: 4 can s 16:16,1 7 26:2 0 capacitie s 89:1 7 car d51:1 3 54:7, 9 54:13,2 259:2 0 65:3,1 266:1 0 67:8,1 4 69:1 6 70:1 6 72:2 275: 7 card s 52:3,4,9,1 1 65:9,1 0 car e76:1 5 97:1 5 carefu l43: 2 carg o 79:2 094:1 5 carr y102:1 0 carry-o n81: 5 102:2 1 case5:1 7 6:1 9 9:4, 7 9:1 210:1 6 12:2, 3 12:4, 4 14:10,1 8 15:1 019:1 6 20: 2 20:1 7 21:1 3 23:2 0 60:1 6 64: 6 71:2 1 73:1 4 74:1 7 77:1 8 79:1 4 81:3,1 7 89: 3 93:2 1 99:3, 3 100:1 0 case s 10:1 241:9,1 1 77:1 6 99:1 4 102:1 9 CA T28: 6 catastroph e82: 4 82:1 5 83: 1 catastrophi c 12:2 0 15:1 5 53:11,1 9 catchin g 100: 3 Cat e17:2 2 categorie s 10:1 9 11: 8 13: 9 15:1 1 16: 6 18:1 7 19:1 4 19:1 7 20:6, 8 22:2 0

categorize d15:1 9 categor y15:14,1 9 15:20,2 1 16:8, 9 18:8, 9 23: 2 caus e12:1 9 16: 1 60:8,1 263:1 9 cause d82:3,1 4 83: 1 cause s 82: 4 causin g 16: 3 celebratio n8: 4 cel l101: 4 cellphon e99:1 8 Cente r 25:1 4 Centra l7:1 8 8: 1 certai n44: 8 80: 8 certainl y43: 5 60:13,1 9 61:1 4 69:1 8 chanc e26:1 1 32: 1 chang e12:1 8 95: 9 99:1 6 change d25:1 0 92:18,2 1 changin g 14:2 2 charg e99:1 7 chec k 33:1 8 Chicag o 73:1 3 circulatio n46: 1 civill: 8 9: 6 15:1 0 23: 3 Clar a84:6, 8 clarif y59: 5 clea r 11:2 012:1 3 102:1 7 clien t 47:5,1 1 client s 47:2,5, 8 77:1 5 clos e6: 7 16:1 9 87: 6 close d90: 9 clothin g 33: 4 cockpi t 100: 8 collectio n101:1 9 101:2 0 colum n18:18,1 8 18:18,1 8 19:10,1 2 combinatio n49:1 0

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Nea l R . Gros s & Co. ,

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.11 6 CERTIFICAT E

Thi s i s t o certif ytha t th e foregoin g transcrip t i nth e matte r of : Precisio nDisplay s an dTool s
Before ; Hon . Richar dC . Goodwin , AL J

Dat e Augus t 17 , 201 0

Place : Sa nFrancisco , Californi a

represent s th e ful l an dcomplet e proceeding s o f th e aforementione dmatter , a s reporte dan dreduce dt o typewriting .

vJ)tU<t« C ftilMJA ^ Susa nPalme r

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

. GROS S COUR TREPORTER S AN D TRANSCRIBER S 132 3 RHOD E ISLAN D AVE. , N.W

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