•' 

C:::.C)\ I ~z 

28 March 1952 at 0935 

Meeting of Executive Group tor SCAG w.i th some members of SCAG 

Subjectr SCAG•s Report to General Canine 

Those presents 

Mr!' w. F. Friedman, Chaiman 

Adm. J • N. Wenger 

Mro E. Speakman 

Mr. D. Post 

Dr. H. T. Engstrom 

Dr. Ao Sinkov 

Dr. s. Kullback 

Dr. Ho P. Robertson 

Dr. H. c.ampa.igne 

Capt. J ."· s. Harpar 

l. The Chairman opened the meeting by stating that its purpose was 

to try to cl.arify~ for the benefit of AFSA personnel,, cert~ portions 

PL 86-36/50 USC 3605 

ot the subject Report 0 Eo 3. 31h1 121 

2o He began by asking if the statement in au.t>paragraph (1), under L.........- ------~~-=- - - ---

~eneral CGnclusicns, vizo_~ that there was a 

·was not too strong. There was an ei::tetJdeci discus- .__~~~~~~~~~ .. \ 

sion iii llhich it appeared that this statement had been aarerjuy thought 

- . 

out by SCAG.. Mr. Friedman was still afraid that the statement would be 

misunierstoad., .or might lead to futll'l"e embarrassment of AFSA; he proposed 

an alternative statement, mlich atter some minor changes was agreed. to 

.. by all present as reflecting the true Gituationo This st~t reads1 

. ' 

"There is sufficient promise of successful solution or the 

ALBATROSS problem to warrant continuation and cons.1.iierable 

expansion or the present effort on i ton i: . 

3. In connection with the SCAG recommeniation that mOie computing 

.. . I 

time be round for the matrix projection method or solution, the Chairman 

asked Dro Cainpaigne if AFSA is investigating the possibility ot finding 

Declassified and approved for release by NSA on 09-24-2014 pursuantto E.O. 1352a . ? 

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fiFOP ~E< DUI~r::J ~"fjl.ijifl~ 193, ~UEDI _ . 28 March 19$2 at 0935 

Meeting of Executive Group £or SCAG with some :members of SCAG 

Subject: SCAG's Report to General Canim 

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time on other machines,, such as SEAC~ ORDVAC. Dr. Campaign.a answered in 

EO 3. 3 I h I I 2 I 

the affirmative. PL 86-36/50 USC 3605 

4. When asked what was meant b$ an 11exparded madiirie prograJn.," Dr. 

Engstrom replied,, "more work en I ,_-

S,, There W'clS ext.elided discussifltabout what S"vAG had in mind in regard 

to a "Sam.I: Civilian Technical Director reporting directly to the Directoro" 

Dr. Robertson said he had been shocked to find that there were no super. 

grade civilian jobs in .AFSA, and state:l definit~ that there should ba 

sameo He stated that most researc~ activities that he knew of,, the Naval 

Ordnance Laboratory~ the Naval ordnli:e Testing Station (at Inyokern) 1 am 

at iniustrial laboratories too,, there is a career man as technical director 

as well as a directoro The u.ltilnate-responsibilit:.r must be on only one 

man,, in AFSA's case military. 

60 YJr. Friedman asked what SCAG had in mind by a "reYision ot person-. 

nel policyoce Dr. Robertson stated tnat ·- as an example of what was in mind,, 

some question had arisen as to whether the reservists wre being used 1n 

. a technical capacity tor which they were qualified~ or tor other dutieso 

[i.:t was brought out 'that the case which bad CQJD.e ·oo the attention o£ a SCAG 

,. . membat" involved that of a reservist who• on one quite exceptional and urgent 

circumstance~ was asked to deliver a classified paper} Dr. Engstrom added 

that he thought the Agency had been losing too many competent peoples 

ljdmiral. Wenger pointed out that .AFS.Af"s ~a.ttriti.on rate was lCl!rler than the 

average in Washingto~ Mr. Fr.iedman mentioned that contracts might be used 

2 

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Meeting ot Executive Group for SCAG with some members ot SCAG 

subject: SCAG•s Report to General Canine 

--------------------------·----------

to employ a small number of exceptional people; the SCAG manbers were unanimous that this would be bad for morale. Dr. Robertson said that separating 

basic research completely from operations, even within the Agency, would . ..-_ 

make the research work more attractive to scientists. By research he meant 

long...range ceypt.anal.y'""1c. ionosphEll'ic, arid ~l 1i'fpes of broad investigationsa 

7 o Mro Friedman asked about the recommendation far 11more use o£ outside contractors." I't appeared that it was meant that more control. should 

be delegated to the contractor" Report'- trom several con tractors ware 

that they had not been able to furnish solutions satisfactory to them 

because they had neither the authority nor the information necessary to 

do soo Mro Post questioned iJhether th{._ciearance stardards are proper• 

and whether there was a tendency on AFSA1s part to keep tight control 

beyond the need dictated by security. Dro Kullback denied that excessive 

control was sought by AFSA. Dr. Robezt""on stated that others think that 

jJ.r)J control is t.oo tight• ~ Dr. Engstrom state;! tllat in ERA's. ""P!!rience they 

were not given sufficient latitme anr quoted John Howard as saying · 

·~ -

11• ;..... ~'Ul"roughs tel t the same way o The consllri.sus of the SCAG :members was that 

,~~ ' ' -- ~,more information was needed by the contr~l.ors; AFSA should ask SCAG for 

~7 comment in greater detail on this pointa ~-

Bo Dr. SinkoV pointed out that the answer to question .3 near the 

bottom of page 2 o£ the Report is yes, and all agreed that ._.. what they 

) -~ had meant .. ~o [it developed that qlla6~on had origi.nall.y been "(3) 

Is ma.xiJmml use being made of resources outside o£ AFSA Wich might be 

l 

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'i'0P SEeREI! 28 March 1952 at 0935 

Meeting or Executive Group tor SCAG with some members ot SCAG 

Subject: SCAG•s Report to General Ca.nine 

-~-&-----------~-~~~-------~-~~------

brought to bear on the proble~0 Dr. Kullback stated that the security 

requirements for AFSA are much higher than for the AEC. Mr. Speakman 

pointed out that it is necessary to take risks to make progI"ess 9 Mr. Post 

repeated that AFSA's security policies need re .... examina.tion. Mr. Speakman 

suggested asking the opinion of contrac'U.lrs about this security question • 

. ~ 1 . 9o Dr. Engstrom stated(_ in regard to the f'uture of sc5 that SCAG 

was waiting for a call i"rom the Directnr} Mr. Friedman stated that 

General Canine intended to have an advisory group such as SCAG as a per.-

manent body. Dr. Robertson asked if-12.~ (Dr. Robertson) represented CIA:i .~ 

• & 

and it iJas stated that there are no SCAG membe1•s who are representatives 

ot organizations; each member speaks for himself'. Dr. Robertson pointed 

J. .-

out that the draft of the "Mission" trsts him as representing the Central 

Intelligence Agencyo It was decided that SCAG needs a charter .formalizing 

memb,ership, which should ba drawn up·bf SCAG and AFSA together.[Dro 

• •' · Robertson volunteered to prov:lde copias o!' the charters of other adVisory . ...,,.,. 

groups lmown to him to have such cha~~ 

10. Mre Friedman stated that AFSI. tdll eXpmld its effort on ALBATROSS,, 

!!: 

It can ge-t. all the rums it needs f'or ·this and get more space:1 but how 

can it. get more high-1.evel personnel:. particularly engineers? Dro Engstrom 

asked if w coul.d get ROTC grad.us. teso Mro Post asked~ "Can you tell them 

what they will do~ef'or~ hiri~g th~?11: Dr. Engstrom suggested that 

recruiting would be simpler i£ AFSA had an unclassified a.rm which could 

hire people and use them without clear~o.t an:i from which the better 

4 
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9f OP SECRE ·-~·lJEDE . '9P SEGRJ!7l 28 Ma..."'Ch 1952 at 093S -----

Meeting of Executive Group for SCAG t-r.l.th SOJile members of SCAG 

Subject: SCAG's Report to General Ca.nine 

- .. - ... - - ,... - - ~-- .., "ii .- - ~ - ,. .. ,... -. .- - -. - ._ ...., ._ ..., - ._ • - _. - - ,. M 

ones could be transferred tD the Test of the Agency. Mr. Speakman 

suggested that perhaps another ag~y could carry them for AFSA, as the 

Naval Research Laboratory once did. 

llo With an iteration of the need tor a charter for SCAG, the meeting 

adjourned.[ Upolf receipt of the sam\)le charters promised by Dr. Robertson,, 

the dratting of a SCAG charter will be initiated~ 

. 1-JJ~J.~,aJ'--., WILLIAM F. FRIEDMAN 

Chairman 

.: 

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