UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS 1

IN THE MATTER OF: KENNETH RAY RUMBERGER FDMS No. FAA-2015-0639 Respondent

Tuesday, January 17, 2017 

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The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 2:00 p.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS RAWALD, U.S. Administrative Law Judge

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Complainant: LISA TOSCANO, ESQ. Attorney of: Federal Aviation Administration Enforcement Division Western Team P.O. Box 92007 Los Angeles, CA 90009 (310) 725-7100 lisa.m.toscano®faa.gov
On Behalf of the Respondent: KENNETH RAY RUMBERGER, pro se 2451 Church Lane SPC 38 San Pablo, CA 94806 (510) 234-1750 kennethrumberger®gmail.com
Also Present: 2

JACKIE BOOKER, ESQ., Attorney Advisor ALEXI FONG, ESQ., Federal Aviation Administration

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1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 2:07 p.m. 3 JUDGE RAWALD: Judge Rawald. I 4 understand, Ms. Toscano, on your line? 5 MS. TOSCANO: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: And also, Mr. 7 Rumberger, are you there? 8 MR. RUMBERGER: Yes, sir. I am, Your 9 Honor. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: And Then we also have 11 a listener in from Seattle, is that right? 12 MS. FONG: Yes, sir. This is Alexi 13 Fong. 14 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, and do we have a 15 court reporter? 16 MS. TOSCANO: Yes, sir. We do. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. I'm also joined 18 by my legal advisor, Attorney Jackie Booker, B-0- 19 0-K-E-R. 20 We'll go ahead and go on the record. 21 This is a plea hearing conference in the case of 22 Kenneth Ray Rumberger, docket number FAA-2015-

(202)234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44334 1 0639. Today's date is January 17th, 2017. This 2 is Administrative Judge Rawald. I 'm joined on 3 the call by government counsel, Lisa Toscano, as 4 well as the respondent, Mr. Rumberger, who is 5 without an attorney. On the call for the FAA is 6 Alexi Fong, with me in my office is my attorney 7 advisor, Jackie Booker. 8 Okay, Mr. Rumberger, let's turn to 9 you. So, last filing I sent out was a denial of 10 your request to dismiss this case. You had sent 11 out a letter to me saying, Your Honor, this case 12 needs to be dismissed for a number of reasons. I 13 looked at those reasons, looked at the law and 14 denied your request to dismiss the case, and then 15 pointed out to you that you had failed, which 16 would require under the law to answer the 17 complaint in this case, setting a deadline for 18 that answer. You did not file an answer even 19 though you're required to do so. 20 So, sir, explain to me why you did not 21 file an answer as told to do so? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. RUMBERGER: I decided it was past

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44335 1 the date because I got the letter from

-- or 2 should I say stamped 11/21 and I didn't get the 3 letter because it was over Thanksgiving holiday. 4 I didn't get it until what was a Friday, so 5 that's kind of an inconvenience when they're 6 mailed to me over the holidays. I think it was, 7 things like this get done purposefully, so it 8 inconvenienced me as well as crippled the case. 9 JUDGE RAWALD: Sir, we are now in 10 January 17th, 2017, 45 days after you received 11 that letter. You have yet to file anything. So 12 why didn't you write me a letter? We discussed 13 previously when I had a phone conversation with 14 you folks in the summer that to not respond at 15 all would be the wrong course of action. You 16 have filed nothing, sir! So what have you done 17 in 45 days? 18 MR. RUMBERGER: Your Honor, as I 19 state, basically I leave next week for 20 proceedings and whatnot. I think I didn't 21 realize

-- you're saying that you said that no 22 response at all was --

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1 JUDGE RAWALD: No, I said it prior in 2 November. You said you received it on 3 Thanksgiving weekend and thought it was too late 4 to do anything, so you did nothing. 5 MR. RUMBERGER: It said to respond by 6 November 28th. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, and so you felt 8 well the day has passed so I will do nothing? 9 MR. RUMBERGER: It was the weekend. 10 JUDGE RAWALD : Sir, sir, sir, sir, 11 sir. It is January 17th, it has been 45 days 12 since you received that letter. You have 13 submitted nothing nor made any phone calls. Why 14 have you not done so? 15 MR. RUMBERGER: Because it said 16 respond by November 28th. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And you got the 18 letter when? 19 MR. RUMBERGER: Pardon me? 20 JUDGE RAWALD: And when did you 21 receive the letter, sir? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. RUMBERGER: I received the letter,

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44337 1 I believe it was on the 25th, which is on a 2 Friday. Because Monday, I believe, was the 28th. 3 Then there's no way for me to respond to your 4 letter when it would have been the 28th already 5 by the time I would have sent it out. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 7 MR. RUMBERGER: At the same time I 8 started to work on it and I go, there's no leeway 9 here. I can't get a courtesy or anything. Then 10 I get all these letters mailed to me at the very 11 last moment in order for me to respond. I don't 12 know what kind of games or tricks

-- I don't work 13 like this, I don't do things like this. 14 JUDGE RAWALD: Sir, are you accusing 15 me of playing games? 16 MR. RUMBERGER: I'm saying, you know 17 18 JUDGE RAWALD: Sir, are you accusing 19 me of playing games? 20 MR. RUMBERGER: No. 21 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Sir, when I sent 22 you the letter back, I explained to you what the

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44338 1 rules require; the rules require a response 2 within ten days. Now, if you had come to me and 3 written a letter saying, Your Honor, I only had 4 this letter over Thanksgiving. I need more time, 5 perhaps I could have done something, but you have 6 spent the last 45 days not doing anything. Sir, 7 I made it very clear and our conversation was the 8 last thing to do, the most incorrect thing to do 9 was to ignore me. When I issue something, it 10 needed to be responded to. And I explained to 11 both you and Ms. Toscano at the time at the fact 12 that you had both had previously not responded to 13 my orders for various reasons, was the wrong 14 thing to do. 15 All you had to do, sir, was pick up 16 the phone, there's a phone number on the back of 17 that letter, and say, hey, this is Kenneth Ray 18 Rumberger. I just received this letter, what do 19 I need to do? 20 MR. RUMBERGER: I didn't realize I had 21 to have a direct call with you. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE RAWALD: Sir, you wouldn't have

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44339 1 to call me, it's my staff assistant's number, I 2 had the number there. You could also call Ms. 3 Toscano, because frankly, as I made it very 4 clear, I consider you both to be adults and to be 5 able to discuss the technical matters while you 6 may not agree with what the FAA is pursuing here. 7 You can discuss with her, hey, I'm in a bind. 8 What should I do? Instead, you spent the last 45 9 days doing nothing. That is the point that I'm 10 having a difficult time with. If you submitted 11 an answer later and said, you know what, here's 12 my answer, but you did not do that. 13 MR. RUMBERGER: Your Honor 14 JUDGE RAWALD: Sir, please allow me to 15 finish what I'm saying. 16 MR. RUMBERGER: Go right ahead. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: The concern I have is 18 I am bound by the rules. I would like to allow 19 you to respond to this because I think it's 20 important that we get this, but at the end of the 21 day, on appeal, the administrator looks at it and 22 says, well, Mr. Rumberger just won't listen to

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443310 1 the rules, I won't be able to do anything about 2 that. So, what I want to hear from you, sir, is 3 what do you want to do next, Mr. Rumberger? What 4 do you want? 5 MR. RUMBERGER: First of all, I'm not 6 guilty of these allegations and therefore

-- I've 7 tried to do it, but I'm ignorant to these 8 proceedings. The thing about it is this has put 9 a hardship on my family. I was due to move two 10 years ago when this incident happened. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 12 MR. RUMBERGER: I explained that to 13 Lisa Toscano. This has crippled me, as well as 14 mentally for me and my family, because I'm 15 stressed on this, because I don't know how to 16 proceed because I did have an attorney at one 17 point in time on this case, which was basically a 18 waste of my money. I mean, all in all

-- like I 19 said, I'm ignorant to these proceedings. It's 20 just me, this is taking a hardship on me and my 21 family, as well as me mentally. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes, sir.

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(202) 234-443311 1 explain to you what the requirement is to answer 2 the complaint. Do you have that complaint in 3 front of you, do you have that document? 4 MR. RUMBERGER: Yes, I do. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. As you may know, 6 the complaint itself is a very short 3-page 7 document. What is required of you is to look at 8 each paragraph and either admit, deny or say you 9 had insufficient information to admit or deny. 10 So, you look at Paragraph 2 and it says: On or 11 about November 15th, 2014 at approximately 0800 12 local, the respondent points a laser at an 13 aircraft. All you have to do is write your 14 answer, admit or deny. 15 MR. RUMBERGER: Denied. 16 JUDGE RAWALD: Right. Then Paragraph 17 2, you point later, blah, blah, blah, blah. 18 You're saying you probably didn't do this, you 19 would write "deny". Paragraph 3, the beam of 20 light illuminated the cockpit, you sound like 21 you're saying deny. Paragraph 4, you sound like 22 you're saying deny. All you have to do is do

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443312 1 that, sir, on a piece of paper and mail that to 2 my office. I made that very clear and you failed 3 to do that, sir. 4 How long would it take you to draft 5 that letter, sir? 6 MR. RUMBERGER: A week. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: It would take you a 8 week to write a letter that says those four 9 words, deny, deny, deny? 

### • 10 MR. RUMBERGER: It would have taken 11 two days and then to mail it off to you and get 12 it to you. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. I 1m not asking 14 how long it will take for me to receive it, you 15 cannot control the mail. I 1m asking how long 16 would it take for you to write that letter? 17 MR. RUMBERGER: Two days. 18 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, Mr. 19 Rumberger, I 1m going to give you until January 20 20th to write the letter with your answer 21 admitting or denying the allegations in the 22 complaint.

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1 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 2 JUDGE RAWALD: It must be postmarked 3 January 20th. 4 MR. RUMBERGER: Certainly. 5 6 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Now, orally you 7 have given your reason for your good cause here, 8 which is your basis for not responding, which is: 9 I received the letter on the Thanksgiving weekend 10 and then didn't have enough time to do it. 11 That'll be there for the record, so it'll be in 12 Ms. Toscano's hands to decide what she wants to 13 do once we receive the letter, the answer was 14 untimely. But that will have an answer and we'll 15 get past that obstacle. 16 so you, sir, will draft your answer 17 and put it in the mail to me by this Friday, 18 January 20th. 19 MR. RUMBERGER: Of course. 20 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So Ms. Toscano, 21 so Mr. Rumberger will then have met his answer 22 obligation.

(202) 234-4433 From that point you will have to

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443314 1 decide how you want to proceed as far as whether 2 you want to file a motion on it regarding that 3 answer. What I want to put up, however, is some 4 deadlines for filing motions since we're here, 5 okay? 6 MS. TOSCANO: Yes, Your Honor. With 7 respect to a copy of the answer that Mr. 8 Rumberger's going to be filing, can you instruct 9 Mr. Rumberger to copy me the same answer and mail 10 it to me as well? 11 JUDGE RAWALD : Yes, Mr. Rumberger, 12 anything you mail, and I think this was the 13 letter before, should be mailed to me, to Ms. 14 Toscano, and also to the Federal Aviation 15 Administration their hearing docket, those are 16 the three people listed at the end of all these 17 pages. 18 MR. RUMBERGER: Right, at the end of 19 the pages. Yes, I believe so, and the Federal 20 Aviation Administration, right? 21 JUDGE RAWALD: Send one copy to each 22 of those three pages, the Federal Aviation

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1 Administration the hearing docket, Ms. Toscano in 2 Los Angeles, and then me here in Washington D.C., 3 okay? 4 MR. RUMBERGER: Certainly. 5 JUDGE RAWALD : Let's talk about the 6 venue. Now it sounds like when you folks had a 7 discussion in the summertime, there was some 8 general agreement that the hearing could be in a 9 different location, is that right, Ms. Toscano? 10 MS. TOSCANO: Yes, Your Honor. The 11 parties agreed that Oakland, California as the 12 venue would be the best. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Mr. Rumberger, 14 does Oakland, California still work for you as 15 the location for the hearing? 16 MR. RUMBERGER: Yes, it does. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Now, Mr. 18 Rumberger, one of the things that you complained 19 about in your motion to dismiss is that you had 20 not received all the discovery that you requested 21 or that you would want from the government, is 22 that right?

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1 MR. RUMBERGER: Well, that I would 2 receive from Ms. Toscano, right. I believe 3 there's still testimony of one or two that were 4 supposedly in the aerocopter and only one of them 5 took a laser exam, exposure exam. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: The way this process 7 works is you need to write a letter to Ms. 8 Toscano saying, these are the things I want, and 9 then she has the opportunity to respond to that 10 letter and provide that material that you're not 11 provided. Are there things that you think she's 12 not providing you because she doesn't think you 13 need them, whereas they do exist, you can then 14 come to me and say, Your Honor, I've asked for 15 guidance from Ms. Toscano that she has not 16 provided and I need your help. 17 MR. RUMBERGER: Well, I think there's 18 an issue about the police reports, also, from the 19 Richmond Police Department. I can go down and 20 get them. 21 JUDGE RAWALD: Mr. Rumberger, I'm 22 going to explain you through the process; the

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443317 1 process is to put together in the letter all the 2 things you want from Ms. Toscano and then mail 3 that letter off to her. Then she will have the 4 opportunity to respond to that letter and then if 5 she did not do these things that you think you 6 need to then turn to me and say, Your Honor, I 7 need some help. I've asked you to order her to 8 provide discovery. And I will look at that and 9 either order it or deny it depending on what the 10 item is and why you want it. 11 So let's talk about the timeline for 12 doing that. So, Ms. Toscano, do you have 13 discovery that you're prepared to give to Mr. 14 Rumberger or are you waiting for a discovery 15 request at this point? 16 MS. TOSCANO: I'm waiting for a 17 discovery request. 18 19 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, Mr. 20 Rumberger, I'm going to set a date by which you 21 must provide a discovery request to Ms. Toscano. 22 How long would it take you to write a letter to

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443318 1 her explaining all the things that you want? 2 MR. RUMBERGER: All the things that I 3 need? Probably by the end of the week. I mean, 4 because

-- 5 JUDGE RAWALD: I don't want to rush 6 you, Mr. Rumberger. Do you think that's enough 7 time or do you want to do it next week? 8 MR. RUMBERGER: Two weeks, please. 9 But anytime I send a letter off to Ms. Toscano, I 10 send a letter off to you as well as the docket? 11 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes, I want everything 12 to be accessible to me and Ms. Toscano. 13 MR. RUMBERGER: Right. 14 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, so I need 15 discovery request from the respondent to be filed 16 by I will say January 31st. 17 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 18 JUDGE RAWALD: I will send out a 19 letter tomorrow that will have a list with all 20 these deadlines. Ms. Toscano, do you have a 21 discovery request you want to serve to Mr. 22 Rumberger as well?

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1 MS. TOSCANO: Yes, Your Honor. 2 JUDGE RAWALD: You do? Okay. So, 3 either party should file their discovery request 4 with the other by January 31st, 2017. 5 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: A response to the 7 discovery request must be made within a month of 8 receiving those requests, okay? 9 MR. RUMBERGER: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Is that sufficient 11 time, Ms. Toscano, or do you need more time? 12 MS. TOSCANO: No, that's sufficient. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, so by February 14 28th I will require a response to the discovery 15 request. 16 MR. RUMBERGER: February 20

-- did you 17 say February 28th, Your Honor? 18 JUDGE RAWALD: The 28th, yes, the last 19 day of February. 20 MR. RUMBERGER: That's 21 response, to the request, right? 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes.

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1 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 2 JUDGE RAWALD: Then I'll give you the 3 initial 30 days and then file a letter with me 4 requesting that I act upon the discovery, so what 5 it will say in your report is that any request, 6 any discovery motion must be filed by March 31st. 7 And any response to the discovery 8 motion should be filed on April 30th. 9 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Meanwhile, the 11 plaintiff can file any other motion that they 12 desire. Any other pre-hearing motions that are 13 not discovery related, so asking for relief of 14 any other sort, so including evidence, to ask for 15 a decision on anything that you wish to have any 16 sort of relief on should be filed separately by 17 May 31st. 18 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: And in that case, any 20 other pre-hearing motions that are filed must be 21 responded to within 30 days. Mr. Rumberger, if 22 Ms. Toscano files a motion in mid-February, you

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443321 1 have 30 days from when she filed that to respond 2 to it, and vice versa, understand? 3 MR. RUMBERGER: I understand it well. 4 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Ms. Toscano, you 5 understand that? 6 MS. TOSCANO: Yes, Your Honor. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, good. But after 8 May 31st they'll be no more pre-hearing motion, 9 we'll be done with pre-hearing motion at that 10 point, okay? 11 MR. RUMBERGER: I understand. 12 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, let's talk about 13 a hearing date. We're going to have a hearing in 14 this case, my calendar is pretty full until 15 September at this point. Do the parties want to 16 discuss a time that works for them in September 17 or do you just want to tell me on your calendars 18 looking at September at this point? 19 Ms. Toscano? 20 MS. TOSCANO: Okay, Your Honor. I 21 don't have anything on schedule yet for September 22 of 2017.

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443322 1 JUDGE RAWALD: And Mr. Rumberger? 2 MR. RUMBERGER: Yes, I. have nothing 3 scheduled either. I was hoping this was going to 4 be taken care of by then, because me and my 5 family still wish to move. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: So, where would you be 7 moving to, Mr. Rumberger: 8 MR. RUMBERGER: Missouri. 9 JUDGE RAWALD: Missouri? 10 MR. RUMBERGER: Yes, we're moving to 11 Missouri. 12 JUDGE RAWALD : The only reason why 13 you're not moving at this point is because of the 14 pending hearing in this case? 15 MR. RUMBERGER: The only reason why, 16 I don't want to leave this behind me, you know? 17 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes. 18 MR. RUMBERGER: Because I don't want 19 to just go and then have it come follow me, I 20 have to come back. I figured I'd wait to take 21 care of this. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE RAWALD: All right. Well, I'll

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-443323 1 schedule this for as early as I can in September, 2 which looks like September 12th is when I would 3 plan on, so I want you to keep that week open 4 September 11th. The week of September 11th with 5 the plan to hearing on September 12th and 13th, 6 and I will coordinate with the local court and 7 try to get a hearing date. 8 Mr. Rumberger, if all that's holding 9 you back from possibly moving, you simply discuss 10 a settlement with Ms. Toscano, because that's the 11 easiest way to get past all these deadlines. I'm 12 not putting the pressure on you because I have 13 the schedule and we can go to it. But if you 14 have a feeling that you want to go ahead and get 15 this over with sooner than the schedule allows, 16 then what you need to do is discuss possibly 17 settling this case with Ms. Toscano. I'll allow 18 you folks to do that on your own. 19 I would encourage you to settle 20 because I think it's the way that everyone is the 21 most happy with the outcome rather than having 22 one imposed upon you by the administrator, but

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443324 1 that's up to you and Ms. Toscano. Do you 2 understand that, Mr. Rumberger? 3 MR. RUMBERGER: I understand. I don't 4 have what they want. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. If we're going 6 to have a hearing in this case, I'll require the 7 parties to exchange witness evidence 3 o days 8 before the hearing. What that means is 30 days 9 before the hearing, so in early August, you'll 10 have to provide Ms. Toscano with any witnesses 11 and also the evidence you want me to consider. 12 Understood, Mr. Rumberger? 13 MR. RUMBERGER: Certainly. That was 14 30 days before the hearing, right? 15 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes, right. Presuming 16 the hearing is in September, this will be in 17 August is when that will be due, but that fixed 18 date will be dictated by when the hearing date 19 ends. I need to go ahead and coordinate with the 20 court to make sure the hearing date works for the 21 courthouse so we can have a hearing. 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. RUMBERGER: Certainly.

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1 JUDGE RAWALD: Also, each party will 2 need to provide a copy of all their exhibits, 3 preferably on a CD containing digital copies. 4 But if you can only do written ones, Mr. 5 Rumberger, I understand. And anything you want 6 me to consider by that date 30 days before the 7 hearing, so all the things you want me to think 8 about in the hearing, you have to give me all 9 your exhibits 30 days before the hearing. 10 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. That's the 12 schedule there, we have a hourly schedule of 13 events, we have a venue that will be here in this 14 case. And do you understand what you need to be 15 doing is that by filing your written answer no 16 later than this Friday, which can be very simple 17 for you to be admitting or denying all the 18 paragraphs of the complaints that you have 19 drafted before you? 20 MR. RUMBERGER: Mm-hmm. 21 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 22 questions for me, Mr. Rumberger?

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(202) 234-443326

1 MR. RUMBERGER: No. 2 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Ms. Toscano, any 3 questions about what we talked about today? 4 MS. TOSCANO: No. Thank you, Your 5 Honor. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Well, at this 7 point, I think it's waiting to be discussed. 8 What I'11 be doing is putting together a pre9 hearing comps report which will include all these 10 dates and deadlines, it will be mailed to both 11 the parties and that way -- Mr. Rumberger, do you 12 have an email address? 13 MR. RUMBERGER: Do I have an email 14 address? Yes, it's kennethrumberger®gmail. It's 15 Google. 16 JUDGE RAWALD: So, is Kenneth 17 Rumberger all one word? 18 MR. RUMBERGER: Yes. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Mr. Rumberger, 20 what I will do is I will also have my attorney 21 advisor email both you and Ms. Toscano a copy of 22 the documents that we're mailing to you just to

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443327 1 make sure you're getting them as quickly as 2 possible, okay? 3 MR. RUMBERGER: Okay. 4 JUDGE RAWALD: So make sure you're 5 checking that kennethrumberger®gmail.com. 6 MR. RUMBERGER: Certainly. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. One last chance, 8 any questions for me? 9 MR. RUMBERGER: No. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And Ms. Toscano, 11 last chance? 12 MS. TOSCANO: No, thank you. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So I will go 14 ahead and issue this pre-hearing comp report and 15 we consider that matter closed today, so the 16 hearing is closed and we'll go off the record. 17 Thank you. 18 MR. RUMBERGER: Thank you. 19 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 20 went off the record at 2:29p.m.) 21 22

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433A able9:5 10:1 above-entitled27:19 accessible18:12 accusing7:14,18 act20:4 action5:15 address26:12,14 Administration2:4,20 14:15,20 15:1 Administrative1:194:2 administrator9:21

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Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Washington DC www.nealrgross.com32 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Kenneth Rumberger

Before: USDOT/OH

Date: 01-17-17

Place: teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

Court Reporter

(202)234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www,nealrgross.com