OFFICE OF THE UNDER SECRETARY 

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DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE 

WASHINGTON 

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD 

SUBJECT: Meeting with General O'Neill 

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June 28, 1969 

On Ju~l8th I met with General O'Neill to 

discuss a number of subjects relating to SAMSO. 

Because we will lose the blue suit launch capability, 

we will have to arrange for contractor launches of 

the TITAN booster. I told General O'Neill of my 

conversation with the Chief on this subject. While 

he was in favor of keeping a blue suit launch, he 

was forced to conclude we can 1 t Pfford to keep it. 

I questioned the Chief about- the crew now on Johnsi5n 

Island in readiness to launch the THOR for the 437 

Program. The Chief feels this is a capability which 

is unique and feels strongly we should keep it. Seven 

hundred people are involved at an estimated cost of 

about $7M a year. The crew expenses are budgeted in 

the Air Defense Command O&M account, not R&D. 

General O'Neill reminded me that if we do 

shift we must do it in an orderly manner. We must 

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get a contract under way by July and allow about six 

months to phase down our present capability. General 

O'Neill stated we would need money to bring the contractor 

on board. There is a small corps of contractor support 

now. It must be enlarged and we must provide an overlap 

period while the new men are trained. I told General 

O'Neill that I did not have a strong view on the subject 

but the Chief definitely does mean to have the blue suit 

capability phased out. 

I raised questions about the satellite control 

facility. I I volunteered the information that 

he had been talking to Colonel Dave Lowe and to the Data 

Automation people. In his initial approvals he had deferred 

HEXAGON DORIAN/STUDY 10067 

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all items which were MOL associated. We would have 

terminated some items like the Advanced Data System. 

The first 6600 computer as well as the triplex 

computer has been stopped. Termination notices were 

sent immediately. 

The Philco Control and Display System is nearing 

completion and may be useable in the Satellite Test 

Center. Since it will cost $7.6 million in 1970 this 

should be reviewed, however it was the feeling ofL___~ 

L__ ___ ~ this is a most likely item to stay. We still 

have the problem of the big building at Sunnyvale and 

the enlarged capability at the remote stations. 

I questioned how we should allocate to our 

programs a proper share of the cost of running the 

Satellite Control Facility. I told them I was interested 

in getting an idea for how much each program really costs. 

General O'Neill stated that he had examined the total 

list of launches and, as might be expected, counted more 

NRO launches than all others. Yet portions of the system 

wouldn't be there if the only launches were NRO associated. 

It was determined that no really good method of evaluating 

support needed existed. Variations in the support required 

for each program are too great and dissimilar to apply 

simple accounting procedures. Also, industrial funding 

may not be a solution since it may cause a large billing 

to some programs. General O'Neill observed that we have 

a working system and I lis probably the best 

expert on it. I I informed us of a previous 

attempt at industrial funding. Every user outside of the 

Air Force begged out so that the allocations had to be 

changed. L__ _____ ~pointed out the NRP pays for costs 

associated with other programs and other programs sometimes pay for the costs associated with the NRP. 

General O'Neill stated that the new computers 

at the outlying stations, the UNIVAC 1230, are capable 

of overwhelming the central. We asked the question 11why 

should it"? If the central capacity is sufficient to 

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run the system there is no need to collect more data 

than necessary at the outlying stations. General 

O'Neill agreed with this, citing the Vela program, 

where we collect huge amounts of data when the stations 

are not busy. General O'Neill recormnended I hear the 

Kronauer report which points this out. I agreed. 

The next subject discussed was the cancellation 

of MOL. General Stewart has been pretty forthright in 

talking to the contractors and in terminating contracts. 

I mentioned that Mr. Abel of McDonnell Douglas visited 

me to state that he understood the reason for the cancellation and what we are doing. He asked for a chance to 

bid on the new spacecraft. I told him that I would 

consider this at the proper time. I remarked that we 

should remember to give them a chance. I stated that we 

ought to update the Lockheed study on HEXADOR. To me 

this still seemed like the most likely candidate, but 

nevertheless we should look at other ways of doing it. 

General O'Neill stated that in about six weeks 

we will have an idea of what is involved in flying that 

camera and spacecraft. I repeated that we are not trying 

to meet an IOC for the new system but will try to establish 

a reasonable date in a short time. There was no urgent 

requirement for flying a new cam.era, nor were there 

enthusiastic supporters of the new program. The name of 

the game is to save money and not shift funds from one 

program to a new program. General O'Neill assured me 

that we are really reducing commitments. If we want to 

continue an unmanned high resolution system it would have 

to be a new program. 

I informed the group that Mr. Packard wants us 

to get as much as we can out of MOL and work closely 

with NASA. NASA is looking at the spacesuit, the tracking 

optics and a number of other items. I felt we should 

try to have NASA do some of our experiments. For this we 

should assign a man full time on evaluating what we could 

do for NASA. I also explained that Dr. Fubini was not 

involved despite the press notices. 

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The last subject discussed was Aerospace manning. 

Aerospace had approximately 350 people on the MOL program. 

John Martin wants about 12. Later he may want perhaps 

as many as 30. He probably will not ask for any more 

than 30. In calculating how many Aerospace men are needed 

there is an optimistic and a pessimistic view. The most 

optimistic assumes a new program to start immediately. 

Aerospace would assign approximately 125 members of the 

technical staff to this program. This would result in a 

$6M cut in the Aerospace budget. A more pessimistic view 

is that no more than 50 people would be required, therefore the cut would amount to about $15M. Whether an 

optimistic or pessimistic view prevails there will 

obviously be a major reduction in force at Aerospace. A 

special meeting of the Executive Committee of Aerospace 

is taking place on June 20th to discuss the impact of the 

cuts. 

Whatever we do, General O'Neill stressed that 

rapid action is required. Two months notice mu~s_t_b_e ___ ~ 

given to each Aerospace Corporation employee. 

noted that General Martin has no more than 60 people on 

HEXAGON and said he doubts the new program would be any 

higher. ~-----~advised we should assume a very low 

rate in 1970 and probably start with FY 71 funds. On this 

basis the maximum number of Aerospace people needed would 

be of the order of thirty. General O'Neill observed we 

must allow Aerospace Corporation to hold good people. 

They have to examine their assets across the company. 

This reduction is the worst impact to Aerospace since 

they were formed. For planning purposes I thought we 

ought to assume 55 to 60 people should be retained and 

we should keep these people charged against the MOL termination in the interim. 

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TOP SEGRET 

John L. McLucas 

Under Secretary of the 

Air Force 

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