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Nard, 27. 1968 

NENORANDUH FOR RECORD 

SUBJECT: Congress ional Conta.ct with Chairman 11ahon, Representative 

Frank T. BO'(J and 'Glenard P. Lipscomb ef the House Committee 

en Apprepriatiens 

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In folleeJ-up to' the 11arch 21, 1968 appeaL"nnco before the. "lbove I 

members ef the Heuse Cemmittee en Appropriatiens~vhe·.?Gre considering j 

NRO pt"ograms, a second meeting W;lS held at 1000 hourG on Harch 25 1 1968. ! 

This meeting was also conducted in a Bl'E1I.4 . .N environn10nt with the following " 

persennel frem the Executive Branch present. 

l2ill2 

Dr. Focter 

Dt". 17 1m, 

Co enel David Carter 

CIA 

Hr. - Carl Dltckett: 

:Va'. Jehn Clerk 

Hr. Harner 

The follm·ling is a s:uml';lati.on of Colenel David C£trter's recoV'ectiens, 

as told to me. of thane portions ef the meeting vli1ich related to' HOL. 

Hr. Hichaels, Chief Staff l\ssist.mt to the Cor,11,1ittoc read a number of 

prepared questions to which the t'Jit;1C'CCC:,~ ('01:'2 anked to respend. One 

of the early questiens by Hr. Eich221s ,,7:,"; [;~.1b8tanti:llly as follows. 

It has been noted by the COTr..mitt0c th(.:t all of the NOl pl.-ogram I!lppea'l"s 

in the RDT&E area. Hould £e]1eone li.kc to cor:;:;,...:nt on the operatienal 

control Dnd mnn,lzetnent of all these r:.;sourc,;;s \!l.th :-cspect to the National 

Recennaissance P:COg!."3n1 (NIt?)? Dr • .::'L::): ;,:r(;~';}c:r:2d t:!is questien by saying 

that the Co:umittce recognizes that ';:ho 1-10:1.. is net ,mae;: the NRP J hor'lever, 

the eperational micsions ,\1i11 be £10':-,:1. under NIli' control. 

The next question \J11ich Hr. Hichaels asked,1ith respect to :t;.lOL'Y8S 

to the effect as to t;,hether or not the intelligence cor:m:unity had 

indicated a requil."ement: for the HOL system. Dr. Flax recponded to this 

qU2stion by indicating that in the boginning the intelligence co;-,:;:::tmity 

h:-!d :Lnc.orzed the HOL program; however, sincG that time the per~ona]iti0.s 

::':c-v:)ivcd changed. (e.g. the DCI and the SecDcf). Should he, Dr. l~l.::n(. 

,~..;,;: the snme questien today the anmJer might be different. Dr. Flait 

c:::plo.ined that the principal question vUJS not that of the value of high 

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rcsolutj.on but of the cost incl1r"-'ed in obtaining thi.s v0.ry high 

rosolution. Dr. Flax 3tl1tca that ~vhen Hr. r.fcNCll:1.:11;3 left offi.ce 

one month [lSO, Hr. I'lcNm:12r,'l vJ[i.s convinced that thel:(j pas a vital 

rcqu:1.rcrc;cmt for the rIOL system <ind the rcsolut ion thtl.t it will 

provide and, therefore. Mr. McNamara strongly supported the program. 

Dr. Foster added to these comments by saying that if the HOL program 

ycre cancelled it would not be poosible to recoup $600 million. 

Un£o:::tunatcly, much undue attention is dr8.1;;tn to the program due to 

the large amount of money associated with this single project. 

Ih,,'cver) it should be pointed out thnt this is the only program 

in which a high. rcoolutibn reconnaissance system is being devalopcd. 

He further pointed out that it is just at thin point that we nro 

bGginning to get tbe kinds of r0:solutions frorn our satellite systems 

thst <'il~e required for really useful intelligence Hork. As an example, 

Dr. Foster pointad out that the oresant resolution obtained tram the 

Gl:.lnnT3 sys tem is not sufficient' to do the complete analys is of the 

Tallinn His6iJ.e System. Hr. Hicba€ls painted out that ,,78 ",ill not 

have the HOL system for SO~i1e time to come. Dr. Flax countered by 

saying thnt ,qe \'.!i11 hnve other Tnl1irms in the future. Chairman Mahon 

then flsked Dr. Foster t;.nci Dr. Flex if they ,;;cre in f,,:vor of the HOL 

system. Col Carter reports t~ct both Dr. Flax and Dr. Foster responded 

in the strong affirmative. 

Dr. Flax thon r.1{ld8 th(~ follcMing points i,;;1 ~;;j!)sti:.1ncc to the 

Committee. lIe e}:,?lC!iT.'i.(:~d tI1at '\J!1cn the Dcpartrtlc:,::: ,')2 Def211SG buys 

weapons there nre s~~y doubts Rnd unccrt2intics ccncornin; the threat 

that the DOD is :',ctc;-npting to C~lUntC!r nod therefore, it is n2cessa;:y 

to HSSume the -:!,_-,';;:: C8:JO. ,:,;'}:cn iJ SystC:-;l is developed <U1d put into the 

inventory, tho system is bougl.lt on the prenise of meeting the;; 'Jorst 

threat. D..:. FL:m then used the Tallir:~:. System as an cX<:'<.'llplc, explzining 

th2.t the DJ) ,;'''''s not sure ns to \!hotbc:.: or not the Tallinn S:/"ccm had 

an ABN capi',bility so it tJ8.S neccs8cxy to t:1r;::;2t both Polaris .::.ttd 

!,lii1ui:e:n'::D. l·:iso iles ::tgninst the Talli.l1i1 ~y:;te!'.:l.. ::fhcrefore, it Las been 

necessary to buy the missile Dnd suppo~tin; Sy3tc~3 necess~ry to nQutralize 

this th:rc;.:;t ,')11 the assumption tha.t the system dC<~J hove an ABa cap(,bility. 

Ch:::i::;::,t;;·, ~·:ichon then us:ced Mr. C~:::::. D:1Ci-(Ctt, CIA~ about the vic;]:'.> 

of his o::~,;-:,:::,"tion ui.th re::;:':.:rJ to ths ;;)'c, syatC'in. ::r. Duckett expl.:-:ined 

that i~ rcs7o~~o to Dr. Fost~ 's query O~ t~e subject, Mr. Helma has 

c):prccccd his reservations ,'--:.1) :recp0c;'::,C tIl::: value of the high rcoolution 

In \l:,tC" .. ! of tlie cost of t11B 8:y:~te'~'(1. IiI":.:.. ·~c:<:::tt e~~pl.ninecl t11at :{:: II 11:clms 

~~~ no'~': ,~):~,posed to the Dyst2:'~~ ".'~,-;<: tll.~1t. ..._.:;1.D~J felt: tll8.t nO't"7 is the 

the .~: 

unde:.: 

: ..:udy the sys ten} <1'::' 

::.f acquisition. l'::'~ . 

_ . It ia understood 

:ORIl .. :: / G!13 IT 

":~2 value of its product ~ ~~us 

~kctt _~ined these studies ere ~( 

_.at: Hr. ,"_:,:;~ett had a copy of Mr. neL,:~ 

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The Chsirmnn then 8sked Dr. Flax hOt] much moncy ,("ill have been 

expended on the HOL proZr en by the end of FY 68. Dr. Flax gave him 

tho nppropri.:ltc figure. Dr. Fosi;:or explained to the;) group that the 

HOL progrr..:ll had just uncicl."gone a very thorough revi81.'l at high level 

and exprcGscd confidence in the results of this "1:8vio\1. Dr. Foster 

iu:cther stated \,rord8 to the effect that 1101 is not the softest spot 

in the DOD Budget. 

Cys to: 

SAFSL - Chrpn File 

SAFSLP ~ Official File 

SCG - Read 

Col Ford/SAFSLP/50945/shw/27 Mar 68 

Rt\I:P:I J.. ]?O~':~D 

ColQD.21, lTSL~? 

C•· n;Le~ • N Pro:::;ro:n and Policies Div t 

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