William G Ogilvie

2423 Beacon Dr.

Salt Lake City, UT 84108

(801)673-1382

September 25, 2013

Docket Management Facility US Department of Transportation 

1200 New Jersey Avenue, 

SE West Building Ground Floor Room W12-140 

Washington, DC 20590

Subject: Petition for Exemption or Substitution of Military Flight Experience for Experience 

Requirements of FAR 141.33(a) (4) (ii) 

William George Ogilvie 

ATP Certificate #3190540

Dear Sir,

The FAA Administrator has demonstrated willingness to consider military flying experience as 

equivalent experience to civil experience in other areas of Title 14. Military flight time is 

counted for flight experience required to meet all of the civilian pilot certificate levels including 

ATP. A military pilot operating equipment with a civilian type designation is granted that type 

rating on his Commercial Pilot or ATP certificate [FAR 61.73 (e)]. US military instructor pilots 

who hold a commercial pilot or airline transport pilot certificate are granted a civil flight 

instructor certificate upon completion of the knowledge testing of FAR 61.185. The precedent is 

set for awarding equivalency of experience. 

I present a brief history of my assignments and experience that you may compare it to an 

instructor with two years’ experience as a FAR part 121 first officer, a FAR part 135 captain, or 

FAR part 91 Subpart K captain as required by FAR 141.33(a)(4)(ii). You will find my

experience gives me the perspective necessary to relate each subject taught to its applicability to 

air carrier operations. I have operated in scheduled operations similar in scope to that of a 

supplemental air carrier operating under FAR part 121 and a FAR 135 or FAR part 91 subpart K 

captain. While I was not operating under company operating specifications created to comply

with these specific regulations, my actions as Pilot in Command of a military airplane were 

governed by documents of similar nature and scope. In most cases only the title of the regulation

was different. The basic rules of operation in my military flying were taken directly from 

FARs. Approach procedures, ATC operations, airspace rules were essentially the same as those 

in the civil regulations. Even crew duty and crew rest procedures were similarly 

governed. Flight deck procedures were outlined and we used the same checklists and error 

detection/mitigation systems used by large aircraft operators throughout the world. Finally, the 
aircraft flight characteristics, navigation, communication and flight systems were representative 

of those of a large transport category airplane used in air carrier and commercial operations. 

I served in the United States Air Force as a flight crew member for twenty-four years and five 

months between March 1978 and August 2002. For four years I served as a Test Program 

Navigator in DC-130E/H. Upon completion of that assignment I was selected to attend 

Undergraduate Pilot Training at Vance AFB, OK, graduating in August 1983. 

My pilot flight experience includes three years as first officer and captain operating weather 

reconnaissance C-130s out of Anderson AFB, Guam where I led my crews into the eye of 

tropical cyclones, Typhoons, and Hurricanes. We tracked these storms to provide forecast data 

to protect the US Pacific Fleet.

In January 1986 I moved to Omaha, Nebraska, assigned as a first officer, captain and instructor 

in the C-21A, a military variation of a Lear 35. Operations in Omaha were essentially the same 

as FAR 91 sub part K or FAR part 135 operations. I obtained my Civilian ATP certificate while 

flying the Lear 35. Missions were dispatched through a central dispatch facility located at Scott 

AFB, Illinois. A typical day of flight operation was three to five legs that often took the airplane 

from coast to coast. We moved high ranking military and civilians to and from both civil and 

military fields. In my six years and two assignments operating the Lear 35, I transited a variety 

of airports including: Andrews AFB, Denver Stapleton, Chicago Midway; Chicago O'Hare; Los 

Angeles International; San Francisco International; Napa Valley Regional; Cody, Wyoming; and 

Billings, Montana. We also operated medical evacuation flights and I made three trips to Howard 

Air Base, Panama while flying the Lear.

In October 1989 I was transferred to Scott AFB in Southwest Illinois. I continued to fly the Lear 

35 while serving as the Air Mobility Command Operational Support Aircraft Safety Program 

Director. My primary duties included assisting in the investigation of major aircraft accidents 

involving C-141, C-130, C-5, and C-135 aircraft world-wide. I had primary responsibility for 

the investigation of two major accidents involving a VC-137 (Boeing 707) and a C-9 (DC-9). I 

saw first-hand the influence of the then new concepts of CRM and championed the development 

of the concept within the Air Mobility Command.

In June 1993 I was rewarded with a chance to continue flying. I was reassigned to Tucson, 

Arizona and assigned to fly as captain of electronic warfare C-130s. The mission of this airplane 

was to place the radio jamming capability of the airplane in position to support friendly forces by 

denying the enemy the use of radio communications. Training was dispatched from the 

squadron. Operationally we were tasked for missions in the theater Air Tasking Order. In two 

combat assignments I was based in Avaino, Italy, flying over Bosnia and in Dhahran, Saudi 

Arabia, flying over Iraq. During the assignment to Saudi Arabia I also served on the battle staff 

in the Air Operations Center creating the Air Tasking Order. The mission of the EC-130 was 

such that we operated at altitudes above cruise ceiling at maximum endurance speeds. The 

airplane is one of only a few C-130s equipped for air to air refueling resulting in long crew duty 

periods and extended flight times. We operated the airplane on the edge of its capability and on 

the edge of human endurance.
April 1998, at the end of my 20th year of service I was selected to move to Travis AFB, 

California where I operated the C-5 Galaxy as first officer and captain. We operated similar to a 

FAR 121 supplemental air carrier operating the C-5 along scheduled routes and on special airlift 

missions moving outsized cargo world-wide. I moved the President’s motorcade vehicles, 

Marine 1 SH60 helicopters, and mundane things like light carts. On other missions I moved 

200,000 lbs. of assorted boxes. I committed to an additional four years to obtain the assignment 

flying the C-5 but ended up serving four years and five months due to the events of September 

11, 2001. During that time period the C-5 navigation systems were upgraded from a triple 

inertial reference unit system to a FMS system with GPS integrated with the existing inertial 

systems. I flew both configurations. 

During my last six years of service in the US Air Force I obtained a certified flight instructor 

certificate with single, multi-engine and instrument airplane ratings.

In September 2002 I retired and began teaching aviation at the collegiate level at Utah Valley

State College and moved to my present faculty position at Westminster College in Salt Lake 

City, Utah in 2006.

Since 2002, I have taught courses on: large airplane systems, flight theory, human factors, 

meteorology, aircraft certification, advanced aviation physiology, aircraft dispatch procedures 

and the FAR 141 certified pilot certification ground schools for private, instrument, commercial 

and multi-engine airplane. I have taken up the sport of soaring. In November 2011 I added 

glider to both my commercial pilot privileges and my flight instructor privileges.

I respectfully submit my experience as an appropriate substitute for the requirements set forth in 

FAR 141.33(a)(4)(ii). They give me the perspective necessary to relate each subject taught to its 

applicability to air carrier operations. I will provide a copy of my official military flight time 

record summary page and a copy of my DD214 as evidence of my experience upon your request. 

And I request a letter of exemption permitting me to act as an authorized instructor in an FAA 

Approved FAR 141 Airline Transport Pilot Certification Training Program.

Respectfully,

William G. Ogilvie, Maj. USAF (Ret.)

Aviation Instructor, ATP B737, L382, LR-Jet

Westminster College, Salt Lake City

bogilvie@westminstercollege.edu

(801)832-2626

(801)673-1382