### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 1

DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PUBLIC MEETING ON ENERGY CONSERVATION STANDARDS FRAMEWORK- GENERAL SERVICE LAMPS Department of Energy 1000 Independence Avenue, S.W. Washington, D.C. Tuesday, January 14, 2014 9:04 a.m. Reported by: Christine Allen, Capital Reporting Company

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S FACILITATOR 2 Doug Brookman, Public Solutions, Inc. 3 DOE AND ASRAC REPRESENTATIVES 4 John Cymbalsky, U.S. Department of Energy Lucy deButts, U.S. Department of Energy 5 Celia Sher, U.S. Department of Energy 6 INDUSTRY PARTICIPANTS 7 Alex Boesenberg, National Electronic Manufacturers Association 8 Susan Callahan, Osram Sylvania Keith Cook, Philips Electronics North America 9 David Gatto, Westinghouse John Green, Easton's Cooper Lighting Business 10 Noah Horowitz, National Resources Defense Council 11 Joe Howley, General Electric Taylor Jantz-Sell, U.S. Environmental Protection 12 Agency Andrew deLaski, Appliance Standards Awareness 13 Project Michael McGaraghan, California Investor Owned 14 Utilities Terry McGowan, American Lighting Association 15 Robert Nachtrieb, Lutron Electronics Kyle Pistor, National Electronic Manufacturers 16 Association Rebecca Ranier, Easton's Cooper Lighting 17 Business Ken Rider, California Energy Commission (via 18 phone) Charlie Stephens, Northwest Energy Efficiency 19 Alliance Jennifer Thorne Amann, American Council for an 20 Energy Efficient Economy 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S Cont'd CONSULTANTS 2 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory: 3 Colleen Kantner Brian Gerke 4 Navigant Consulting, Inc.: 5 Robert Cholnoky Aisha Husain 6 Maureen Kienle Ali McDonald 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 4 1 C O N T E N T S PAGE 2 Welcome John Cymbalsky, Department of Energy 5 3 Introductions 6 Agenda Review 8 4 Opening Statements Alex Boesenberg 13 5 Andrew deLaski 15 Noah Horowitz 25 6 Overview Lucy deButts, DOE Lighting Project Manager 27 7 Scope of Coverage Maureen Kienle, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 38 8 Test Procedure Maureen Kienle, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 73 9 Market and Technology Assessment Maureen Kienle, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 80 10 Screening Analysis Maureen Kienle, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 80 11 Break 102 Engineering Analysis 12 Aisha Husain, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 102 Product Price Determination 13 Aisha Husain, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 125 Energy Use Analysis 14 Colleen Kantner, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory 144 Life-Cycle Cost Analysis 15 Colleen Kantner, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory 148 Shipments Analysis 16 Brian Gerke, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory 156 National Impacts Analysis 17 Brian Gerke, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory 173 NOPR Analysis 18 Aisha Husain, Navigant Consulting, Inc. 173 Closing Remarks 19 Lucy deButts, DOE Lighting Project Manager 181 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (9:04 a.m.) 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Can I get started here? 4 Good morning, everyone, welcome. This is the U.S. 5 Department of Energy's Public Meeting on Energy 6 Conservation Standards and Framework, General 7 Service Lamps. 8 Today is Tuesday, January 14, 2014, here 9 in the Forrestal Building in Washington, D.C. 10 Welcome, everyone. I'm glad to see you here this 11 morning. We're going to start with welcoming 12 remarks from John Cymbalsky. 13 MR. CYMBALSKY: Thank you, Doug. I'm 14 John Cymbalsky. I'm the program manager for 15 Appliance Standards here at the Department of 16 Energy. I'd like to welcome everyone to today's 17 meeting on general service lamps. 18 I wish everyone a happy New Year. I 19 think this rule--just thinking of the scope and 20 the potential energy savings here, we think, is 21 obviously very significant. We understand that 22 the backstop could kick in on this rule, too, for

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 6 1 45 lumens per watt in 2020. So I can't stick 2 around too long here, but I want to wish everybody 3 a good meeting and a very productive meeting. 4 And I know there were some discussions 5 along the way between efficiency advocates and the 6 manufacturers regarding potential negotiated 7 rulemaking on this product class, so if that 8 opportunity still exists I'd just like to say the 9 Department welcomes that opportunity. And, of 10 course, we could use the ASRAC Federal Advisory 11 Committee to serve as the vehicle to do a 12 negotiated rulemaking. Thank you. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. And it is our 14 tradition to start with introductions. 15 REPORTER: Mr. Bookman, could you use 16 your other microphone? 17 MR. BOOKMAN: Okay, this thing is not 18 working well. It's our tradition to start with 19 introductions, so let's start to my immediate left 20 here. Name and organizational affiliation, 21 please? 22 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg,

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 7 1 manager of Regulatory Affairs for the National 2 Electrical Manufacturers Association. 3 MS. CALLAHAN: Sue Callahan, Osram 4 Sylvania. 5 MR. COOK: Keith Cook, Philips Lighting. 6 MR. GATTO: David Gatto, Westinghouse 7 Lighting. 8 MS. RANIER: Rebecca Ranier, Eaton's 9 Cooper Lighting. 10 MR. GREEN: John Green, Eaton's Cooper 11 Lighting. 12 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, National 13 Resources Defense Council, NRDC. 14 MS. JANTZ-SELL: Taylor Jantz-Sell, U.S. 15 Environmental Protection Agency, Energy Star 16 program. 17 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan, on 18 behalf of the California Investor Owned Utilities. 19 MR. HOWLEY: Joe Howley, manager of 20 Industry Relations at GE Lighting. 21 MR. McGOWAN: Terry McGowan, I'm a 22 director of engineering for the American Lighting

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 8 1 Association. 2 MS. SHER: Celia Sher, DoE general 3 counsel. 4 MS. KANTNER: Colleen Kantner, Lawrence 5 Berkeley National Laboratory. 6 MR. GERKE: Brian Gerke, Lawrence 7 Berkeley National Laboratory. 8 MS. McDONALD: Ali McDonald, Navigant 9 Consulting. 10 MS. KIENLE: Maureen Kienle, Navigant 11 Consulting. 12 MS. HUSAIN: Aisha Husain, Navigant 13 Consulting. 14 MS. DEBUTTS: Lucy deButts, Department 15 of Energy. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Did 17 everyone get a chance to introduce themselves? 18 Okay, that's fine. Lucy, do you wish to--well, 19 let me do a brief agenda review here. 20 As you can see from the packet of 21 information, as you received walking in the door 22 today, we have both an agenda and a colorful

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 9 1 packet of PowerPoint slides. Immediately 2 following this agenda review there will be some 3 overview slides and then following the overview 4 slides, an opportunity for anybody that wishes to 5 make opening remarks, brief summary comments about 6 issues that matter to you. 7 Following that, we will return to the 8 content in the presentation materials, scope of 9 coverage, and test procedures and then directly 10 moving on, market technology assessment screening 11 analysis. We'll take a break mid- morning, around 12 about 10:30. From there are returning to 13 engineering analysis and then directly to product 14 price determination and then energy use analysis, 15 life-cycle cost analysis. 16 We'll take lunch midday, around about 17 noon or so. And then, as we return from lunch, 18 shipments analysis, national impact analysis, then 19 NOPR analyses, and then closing remarks at the end 20 of the day, another opportunity for anybody that 21 wants to raise any additional issues that haven't 22 been covered sufficiently.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 10 1 Questions or comments about the agenda? 2 (No response.) 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Seeing none, if you would 4 please, on the first page of your packet, ground 5 rules. Please, if you would speak one at a time 6 and say your name for the record each time you 7 speak. There will be a complete transcript of 8 this meeting made available on the DoE website. 9 Be concise, please share the airtime. If 10 you could keep the focus here, turn your cell 11 phones on Silent mode, limit sidebar 12 conversations. You've already got used to turning 13 these microphones on and off, please turn them on 14 and off. 15 And then, webinar participants, welcome. 16 The Department of Energy's trying very hard to 17 make these meeting totally accessible to folks, 18 via the web. If you would turn your phones on 19 mute, raise your hand to be recognized to speak. 20 We've been mostly successful making that work and 21 we can typically hear you in the room, if you wish 22 to comment or ask a question.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 11 1 And I think that's most of what I had at 2 this point. Lucy? Lucy deButts, for a few 3 overview slides. 4 MS. DEBUTTS: Okay, so just to follow up 5 on what Doug said regarding the webinar. We 6 encourage comments from participants in the 7 meeting and, of course, over the webinar. Any 8 questions or comments made over the webinar would 9 be made part of the transcript for today's 10 meeting. However, we also encourage everyone to 11 submit written comments after the meeting. 12 All right, to the purpose of this public 13 meeting. So the purpose of today's meeting, of 14 course, is to present the procedural analytical 15 approaches to evaluate standards for general 16 service lamps. We are hoping to get comments from 17 everyone who has stated and we also would like to 18 discuss the next steps for this rulemaking. 19 So, if participants have their summary 20 of comments that they would like provide to us, 21 that's great. Any addition information you can 22 provide to us, any data, the department always

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 12 1 welcomes. The more information we have, the 2 easier it is for us to actually analyze the 3 rulemaking. 4 When we discuss the issues, you will see 5 throughout the presentation the comment boxes. 6 These comment boxes actually correspond with the 7 issues in the framework document. So if you see-- 8 I just want to mention again, if you see a comment 9 box that is numbered 3, that goes after 4, it's 10 not because we can't count. It's because it's 11 just easier to present that way. 12 They actually are numbered normally in 13 the framework document. If you'd like to access 14 the framework document itself, as you all know, 15 it's on regulations.gov. In the docket it's also 16 accessible via DoE website and if anyone has any 17 issues accessing any of those electronically, they 18 can also call me and we will try to see if we can 19 assist you in any way. But, hopefully, everybody 20 has access to the Internet by this point. 21 One thing I want to bring up is that the 22 deadline for submitting comments is on January

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 13 1 23rd of 2014, so, hopefully, everyone will have 2 time to review and will be mindful of the 3 deadline. 4 So at this point I want to give it back 5 to Doug. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. As we stated 7 at the outset, an opportunity for opening remarks, 8 issues that matter to you here at the outset? Alex 9 Boesenberg? 10 MR. BOESENBERG: I meant to print this 11 out, so I'll have to do it off my phone. Well, 12 I'm Alex Boesenberg of NEMA and speaking on behalf 13 of NEMA and my lamp manufacturer members, first, 14 of course, we thank the Department for hosting 15 today's meeting. As an administrative item, we've 16 had some discussions with the energy advocates and 17 we would like to request a two- week extension to 18 the comment period. 19 Comments are coming together, but the 20 gap in the holidays has put us a little behind and 21 to give the Department as thorough comments as 22 possible, two weeks would be a great help. I can

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 14 1 definitely pull it together in that time. I won't 2 request any more. I'll let Andrew speak to that 3 when it gets back around to him. I think they 4 feel the same way. 5 We wanted to comment with respect to the 6 scope of the rulemaking. John already alluded to 7 the legislative backstop and some other things 8 that are concerns for all of us and so I have a 9 little statement that our counsel gave me and I'll 10 read it and then I'll translate it. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MR. BOESENBERG: So with respect to the 13 scope of the rulemaking and DoE's apparent 14 position that the Consolidated Appropriations Act 15 of 2012 appears to restrict the use of 16 appropriated funds in connection with several 17 aspects of the Department's incandescent lamps 18 program. To us this is not the most obvious 19 reading of the Burgess Amendment that resulted in 20 that restriction. Because the scope of this 21 rulemaking is important to all stakeholders, NEMA 22 believes DoE owes stakeholders a more detailed

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 15 1 explanation of the conclusion that's provided on 2 page 11 of the framework document for general 3 service lamps. 4 So the translation is, we don't 5 necessarily read it the same way you do and rather 6 than offer our own interpretation, since we are 7 not the Department, it would be of great 8 assistance if the Department could provide some 9 more background information as to the mental steps 10 to where you arrived at that conclusion on page 11 11, and we would appreciate that. Obviously, the 12 sooner the better. If it could be delivered 13 within a week, then we could definitely turn that 14 around and provide, I think, more finely tuned 15 comments regarding that subject. Thank you. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you, Alex. 17 Other comments here at the outset? Andrew 18 deLaski? Here's the microphone. 19 MR. DELASKI: I'll just start just by 20 concurring with Alex on both of those points. A 21 two-week extension for the comment period would be 22 very helpful, given that the 23rd is just a week

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 16 1 from today and we want to have our comments based 2 not just on the framework document, but on what we 3 hear today in these discussions, so a little bit 4 more time would give us time to do that 5 effectively. 6 And keep in mind, please, as you 7 consider that, that both NEMA and those of us who 8 are in the energy advocacy community have 9 processes where we need to get approval for our 10 comments before they can go into you, so if the 11 deadline is the 23rd, they have to be done today 12 for us to be able to get them through our 13 processes. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Right. Okay. 15 MR. DELASKI: So we'd just ask for some 16 consideration for that. And I also want to concur 17 with Alex's comments with respect to your 18 interpretation of the Burgess Amendment. We think 19 we would like to understand better where you're 20 coming from on this. I guess I can-- maybe a line 21 or two in the framework document. So we need a 22 better understanding of the DoE's interpretation

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 17 1 so that--you know, we think again that you've 2 taken an awfully restrictive reading of it. 3 I want to make a couple of other 4 comments here at the outset on other issues that I 5 hope we'll get to today, but before I do that, I 6 want to just recognize that January 1st just 7 passed and we've just completed the phase-in 8 period for the initial standards that were enacted 9 as part of EISA. And I want to recognize and 10 congratulate the manufacturers, in particular, but 11 really the entire market for what's been a really 12 very successful implementation of Phase 1 of the 13 EISA standards. 14 Those of us who had been working on this 15 for many years now recognize that it was a big 16 effort by the part of the NEMA companies and other 17 companies as well as the entire distribution 18 chain. You walk into a Home Depot today or any 19 company that sells lighting and you see an 20 entirely different tableau than you saw a few 21 years ago. You know, the education that's gone to 22 help consumers understand the options that they

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 18 1 now have, the choices they now face, which have 2 increased, relative to a few years ago, is really 3 amazing. And a lot of that credit is due to the 4 efforts of the companies in this room. 5 And I think the thing that we've seen in 6 the market, and those of us who, you know, been 7 following this right closely, is that the light 8 bulbs have gotten better. The consumers are 9 saving a lot of money. They're more energy 10 efficient. We have--the halogen incandescents 11 look the same. They light up the same as the 12 light bulb that they've replaced, and the 13 consumers also have the options of the more 14 efficient CFLs and LEDs that save even more. So 15 it's been a really good news story, despite what 16 you see some of the press--but I think that's 17 turned. The storm has turned, I would say, and 18 we're seeing a lot more positive recognition of 19 this. 20 And I think the news story out the end 21 of last year from my colleague John's old shop of 22 the EIA put out a very fascinating result, which

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 19 1 is that U.S. energy consumption in the residential 2 sector is now down for the third year in a row. 3 And that result is, in a large measure, connected 4 back to the transition to more energy efficient 5 lighting. 6 The huge portion of residential energy 7 consumption was residential lighting, so we really 8 have to look at the EISA lighting standards as 9 having been a huge success so far and the work in 10 this docket will build on that success. 11 Now, if we think about this particular 12 docket--and I want to join Alex in thanking DoE 13 for starting this rulemaking. The idea behind 14 this docket was, when Congress enacted EISA, was 15 to give DoE the charge of designing an intelligent 16 approach to how light bulbs will evolve over time. 17 And, unfortunately, the rider now gets in the way 18 of doing that, in DoE's interpretation. So we're 19 disappointed, obviously, that Congress has 20 continued the rider. And, again, it's in the bill 21 that was released last night, the appropriations 22 bill, so to all apparent appearances it will

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 20 1 continue again for another year. 2 But it's harmful in the sense that it 3 puts consumer savings at risk that have been 4 accomplished by the standards and by the industry 5 and it threatens the investments of your 6 companies, of the manufacturers that have invested 7 to comply with the standards, and the U.S. jobs 8 that are entailed in making compliant products. 9 And the framework, as Alex noted, the 10 DoE interprets the rider as preventing it from 11 considering incandescent technology in this 12 rulemaking. Now, that's going to reduce DoE's 13 flexibility a lot if that interpretation stands. 14 Flexibility combined with solution that will be 15 best for consumers and solutions that will be best 16 for manufacturers, and solutions that will be best 17 for the environment. In this interpretation, the 18 rider--and to use the current interpretation of 19 it--are a real hindrance to the best outcomes. 20 So we hope to learn today more about how 21 DoE interprets the rider and what it will mean for 22 the rulemaking process.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 21 1 So I want to highlight here as I close a 2 few other concerns I hope will come up today, and 3 if they don't come up, then we'll bring them up 4 during the rest of the meeting. 5 First, DoE has proposed in the framework 6 to use an approach for this standard that will be 7 based on equations, smooth curves, for the 8 standards. I think that's a good idea. Equation9 based standards generally result in less 10 discontinuities, less gaming potential, and we 11 think it's a good idea to move towards standards 12 that are based on continuous functions. 13 Secondly, we're concerned about DoE's-- 14 what we think is a premature determination not to 15 thoroughly examine exempted lamps. We think 16 there's both legal error in DoE's decision, and 17 technical error. Technical error, we'll get into 18 the legal error probably in our written comments 19 or perhaps later today, if it comes up, but from a 20 technical perspective, there are several lamp 21 types out there that sell for an incremental cost 22 without delivering incremental energy savings.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 22 1 And although those lamp types meet a 2 particular market niche and a particular need, 3 which is why they're exempted, but three-way 4 lamps, rough service lamps, high-output lamps, 5 these all play an important role in the market, 6 but they also don't deliver energy efficiency 7 savings like the EISA standards do. 8 So there's a potential risk there both 9 for a loophole and, also, a potential opportunity 10 to improve efficiency with those lamps that we 11 think DoE should be evaluating in the rulemaking. 12 Indeed, we've determined in the framework that 13 based on current sales, that their sales have not 14 increased, therefore, they won't be considered. So 15 we think that's a premature determination. DoE 16 should be evaluating these lamp types. 17 Product classes, DoE's approach to 18 product classes seems to be based on CFLs for some 19 reason. And we're interested in how DoE envisions 20 other lamp types would fit into that lamp product 21 class structure. 22 The framework document does not address

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 23 1 modified spectrum lamps, which have a lower 2 standard than conventional lamps, so we're curious 3 how DoE intends to include these lamps as part of 4 the stock and what DoE's plans are for modified 5 spectrum lamps. We didn't see that addressed in 6 the framework. 7 The backstop, in the framework DoE has 8 not described how it will analyze the backstop. 9 We'd like to hear more about that today. And 10 we're sure that since the backstop is an important 11 element to this rulemaking, how are you going to 12 analyze that, since the standard has to deliver at 13 least saving equal to the backstop. 14 We're concerned and have questions about 15 DoE's approach for product price determination, 16 what we think is similar to other dockets, but in 17 this docket there may be some lamp types that are 18 not on the market today, such as improved lamps 19 for which that methodology might not work. So 20 we're curious as to how DoE will address product 21 price determination for technologies that aren't 22 currently available in the marketplace.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 24 1 And the last point I want to make, to 2 make sure it gets on the agenda for today, is the 3 standard for compact fluorescent lamps. We 4 believe the DoE intends to treat this as the six5 year review for the EPACT compact fluorescent lamp 6 standards. And that provision in EPACT 2005 7 authorizes DoE to consider revision to existing 8 quality components of the standard, such as the 9 rapid cycle test and also authorized DoE to 10 consider new quality elements, such as power 11 factor. So our question is, does DoE intend to 12 evaluate these other elements of the CFL standard 13 and, if so, why? And if so, how? And if not, why 14 is that not a part of the discussion? 15 So we hope we can discuss each of these 16 issues and others, I'm sure, that will come up 17 today as well, to start off. Thank you. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you, Andrew. 19 Other comments here at the outset? 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah? 21 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, with NRDC. 22 I concur with my colleague Andrew deLaski that the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 25 1 Phase 1 transition has gone very well. And I want 2 to point out that there is some lag time- -January 3 1, the 60s and 40s just went into effect. That's 4 roughly half of the market, so we haven't seen 5 what impact that will have on the market. 6 So, given that, we still can buy most 7 likely legal bulbs that are 75 watt equivalents 8 and some even 100s because there's been some 9 warehousing. There might be even additional 10 stockpiling by manufacturers or retailers, so the 11 60 watts will stay on the shelf for many months to 12 come and we need to be aware of that. And as such, 13 we need to be careful not to prematurely or 14 incorrectly lock down a baseline because we 15 haven't really seen the full impact of the Phase 1 16 part of the standards. 17 And we also need to be careful not to 18 make assumptions about the specialty or accepted 19 bulbs, again, because you can still buy the 60 20 watt inexpensive incandescent bulb, so there is 21 less motivation for manufacturers and/or consumers 22 to move to some of these other niche bulbs that

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 26 1 currently have low sales, but that could escalate. 2 Thank you. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Additional 4 comments before we launch into the content? Okay, 5 I see--yes, Terry? 6 MR. McGOWAN: Yeah, Terry McGowan, with 7 the American Lighting Association. I'd like to 8 call attention to the fact that our friends up in 9 Canada have moved very strongly to harmonize these 10 standards with theirs and they are, this year, 11 going to handle the whole thing. On behalf of our 12 Canadian members, we would like to thank them for 13 doing that, which was no small feat, and so that 14 we avoid cross-border problems, which can be very 15 important to manufacturers as well as retailers. 16 So I just call attention to that. We're not alone 17 in this and that we have implications in another 18 country and this industry crosses those borders 19 very freely, thankfully, but we welcome that 20 cooperation. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, that's a nice 22 note as well. Okay, final comments here? Then

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 27 1 back to Lucy. 2 MS. DEBUTTS: Okay. All right, so now 3 we're going into the overview and we'll start with 4 the regulatory history here. As already 5 mentioned, the amendments to EPCA that were 6 initiated by EISA directed DoE to conduct two 7 cycles of the rulemaking to evaluate GSLs was the 8 framework that was published on December the 9th. 9 DoE actually initiated the first cycle of review 10 and we are directed to publish the final rule for 11 this rulemaking by January 1st of 2017. 12 This also directs DoE to have a 13 compliance date of at least three years later, if 14 standards are to be established. So we are 15 evaluating existing exemptions for certain 16 incandescent lamps. We're not limited in scope to 17 incandescent lamp technologies. And also 18 considering a phase-in compliance date based on 19 the impact of amendment standards on 20 manufacturers. 21 Finally, as was stated earlier, DoE is 22 directed to consider a minimum standard of 45

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 28 1 lumens per watt and if we do not issue that 2 standard, EISA requires that if the final rule 3 does not provide savings greater than or equal to 4 the savings of a 45 lumens per watt standard. GSLs 5 that do not need 45 lumens per watt standard 6 cannot be sold, beginning January 1st of 2020. So, 7 with this rule, we are satisfying the requirements 8 to review existing standards for medium-based 9 compact fluorescent lamps as well. 10 This slide talks about the rulemaking 11 schedule as we're proposing it right now. So if 12 you look at it as we've stated, we published the 13 framework document on December 9th of 2013. That 14 implies that we're going to collect the comments 15 and review all of your comments, then do the 16 analyses, and we're hoping to publish the pre17 analysis with technical support documents by 18 November of 2014. After that, of course, there's 19 going to be another time to submit comments for 20 the manufacturers and the rest of the 21 stakeholders. 22 We will review those, an offer is

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 29 1 proposed to come up in December of 2015, with the 2 final rule in December of 2016. And again, as I 3 said, three-year compliance date, so that means 4 the compliance date is projected to be in December 5 of 2019. 6 When DoE is evaluating any standards, as 7 we are all well aware, we need to consider several 8 factors that EPCA directed and these are listed on 9 this slide. I'm not going to go through them, but 10 we will consider each and every one in order to 11 establish a standard. 12 So that, actually, concludes the 13 overview of the rulemaking and the history. So 14 now it's to the scope and now, Maureen, you will 15 be presenting them. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, please, Mike? 17 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan from 18 the California IOUs. This might be the best time 19 to reiterate one of the questions that Andrew 20 brought up, and that is, this rulemaking is 21 charged with delivering the equivalent savings to 22 the backstop, so the question is, does DoE intend

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 30 1 to do an analysis to establish what that savings 2 would be, what that baseline is? And if so, is 3 that going to be part of this rulemaking or is 4 somebody working on that concurrently? Is that 5 something that somebody can speak to today? 6 MR. GERKE: This is Brian Gerke from 7 LBNL. I suspect that that analysis will be part 8 of this rulemaking process. We'd consider that as 9 one of the possibilities, although we are still in 10 the framework stage, so no decisions have been 11 made on that. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex. 13 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 14 Since it's been brought up, I am curious, I would 15 ask the Department to confirm my interpretation of 16 the last point on Slide 9, Item 2, 'Consider a 17 minimum standard of 45 lumens per watt.? It's our 18 understanding, as the people who helped to craft 19 that legislative language, that it was a fleet 20 average. That is, all the product covered in 21 scope when you add their efficiencies together 22 across the market share, 45 lumens per watt or

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 31 1 better, is that the same interpretation that the 2 Department has or is it a minimum 45 for any 3 product as an individual entity? We don't think 4 that's it, but I want to just make sure everyone's 5 on the same page? 6 MS. McDONALD: This is Ali McDonald. 7 Just to clarify, you mean when you look at the 8 products that are available after the standard, on 9 average, their efficiency is 45 lumens per watt? 10 MR. BOESENBERG: Well, there's two ways 11 to interpret your question. 12 MS. McDONALD: I'm trying to understand 13 what your point of view was. 14 MR. BOESENBERG: You guys jump in if I 15 get this wrong. Our understanding of the minimum 16 standard in relation to the backstop is that it 17 means that for the scope of products, after the 18 rule takes effect, with the anticipated market 19 share, et cetera, that the average across all of 20 that is 45, and not each individual product, 45 or 21 better. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Keith, follow on?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 32 1 MR. COOK: Yeah, I think what Alex is 2 asking is, if you took the total wattage of all 3 lamps sold and divide it by the total number; you 4 end up with a fleet average. Is that the 45? Or 5 is it an average of 45 for CFLs and an average of 6 45 for LEDs and an average of 45 for halogen 7 incandescent, et cetera? That's what he's asking. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Celia? 9 MS. SHER: Yeah, excuse me, I think that 10 it would be useful to submit those comments in 11 writing and then we can provide some clarity on 12 those provisions and, you know, hopefully, answer 13 that question to your satisfaction in the next 14 rulemaking document. 15 MR. HOWLEY: This is Joe Howley. As 16 someone who is involved with that original 17 language, I can share with everyone that our 18 intent at the time was to achieve an average 45 19 lumens per watt. In other words, theoretically, 20 if every lamp that went into a medium-based socket 21 was at 45 lumens per watt, there'd be a certain 22 energy use to that and that would be fairly easy

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 33 1 to calculate: 45 lumens per watt times the number 2 of available sockets. 3 So this standard was supposed to achieve 4 a savings as if every lamp in every socket was at 5 45 lumens per watt, which would be considerable 6 given back when we were negotiating this, 7 incandescent probably averaged about 15 lumens per 8 watt, which was the dominant source. So the 9 concept was to get that average up to 45 lumens 10 per watt or get a standard that had the equivalent 11 of that type of energy use or savings, depending 12 on how you're looking at this. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe? Joe, you were 14 involved in those negotiations on that language? 15 MR. HOWLEY: Yes. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Noah. 17 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, NRDC. My 18 group and other advocates were also involved in 19 the negotiation. There was no consensus. It was 20 done through legislation-- 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. 22 MR. HOROWITZ: --so I think it's

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 34 1 incorrect to suggest that there was unanimous 2 positions on, is it 45 lumens per watt--a hard 3 number for every bulb--and/or a weighted average? 4 We believe there are two different 5 things going on here. The requirement that the 6 agency consider a minimum standard of 45 lumens 7 per watt, we interpret that as what if every bulb 8 that could be sold after the standard achieve 45 9 lumens per watt or better?. So we agree with the 10 way it's written there and that's a slightly 11 different interpretation than the industry is 12 taking. 13 A second thing that we might be 14 confounding together is the requirement that this 15 standard save as much energy, on average, as what 16 a 45 lumen per watt standard would deliver. And 17 that's where I think the ability to have some sort 18 of weighting could occur. But these are different 19 things and we don't agree that one should rule out 20 the option for a hard 45 lumen per watt that every 21 bulb must achieve. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Joe.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 35 1 MR. HOWLEY: Just a counter to that is 2 that the position that every lamp would have a 45 3 lumens per watt ended up being the backstop. So 4 there would be no reason to do an analysis that 5 said the fleet average would be 45 lumens per watt 6 if indeed--the backstop, if there is no 7 rulemaking, would be 45 lumens per watt. What 8 would be the point of doing the analysis if 9 everything was at 45? 10 The reason that was put in there and the 11 only reason industry agreed to it, from our point 12 of view, was that we did not want a hard 45 lumens 13 per watt standard. That's why, basically, saying 14 to us that we better come to the table and 15 participate in a rulemaking process during this 16 time or the alternative would simply be a flat 45 17 lumens per watt across all products. 18 To avoid that, we said we will agree to 19 a rulemaking process and actively engaged in it 20 and get savings equivalent to--as if there would 21 be a 45 lumens per watt standard across all types. 22 The only interpretation that makes sense was that

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 36 1 that analysis was designed to be a fleet average. 2 That is industry's view on this. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 4 MR. DELASKI: So, I'm misunderstanding, 5 Joe-- 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew, closer, please. 7 MR. DELASKI: So, Joe, I'm not sure if 8 you guys are agreeing or disagreeing? So, the 9 backstop says--the language isn't up there, I was 10 just looking for it and I didn't find it, but I 11 think you're agreeing that the backstop says 12 savings equivalent to 45-- 13 MR. HOWLEY: No, the backstop is a hard 14 45 lumens per watt number across all types. That's 15 what the backstop is. That's the alternative to 16 no rulemaking. The rulemaking is supposed to 17 produce savings equivalent to a-- 18 MR. DELASKI: Yeah, and one of the ways19 -and there are many ways one could get there, 20 right? 21 MR. HOWLEY: Right. 22 MR. DELASKI: And one of them would be

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 37 1 the backstop, right? And it would be right for 2 DoE to evaluate that, just so we know what it 3 means, right? I mean, that was probably my 4 question at the outset is that we want to know 5 what the impact of the backstop is, right? So I 6 think it makes sense for DoE to evaluate that as 7 an option because it is, indeed, one of the 8 options, right? 9 It may not be the best option, but it's 10 one of the options because Congress put it in the 11 statute. 12 MR. HOWLEY: Right, but it was put there 13 to assure a rulemaking process and not just a 14 blind 45 lumens per watt standard with no thought 15 to it whatsoever. 16 MR. DELASKI: And I guess what I would 17 suggest is that DoE also has to--it's like a 18 statutory requirement to evaluate Max Tech, so Max 19 Tech is going to be above 45 lumens per watt. 20 MR. HOWLEY: But it doesn't prevent 21 that, of course. 22 MR. DELASKI: Right.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 38 1 MR. HOWLEY: It's just a minimum of 45-- 2 MR. DELASKI: You're going have a spread 3 of options, like in every rulemaking, from the 4 baseline up to Max Tech. And since Max Tech is 5 above 45 LPW, I think we would all agree then, you 6 know, it seems to me it makes sense that you're 7 going to have to fill that space and 45 LPW is 8 certainly part of that space between that, it 9 seems to me, you want to fill. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: So I hope that exchange 11 was clear on the record. There's a lot of back 12 and forth between Andrew and Joe and we'll just 13 deal with the ambiguity, I guess. 14 Okay, so additional comments here? I'm 15 wanting to return to the content here, the 16 presentation content. 17 (No response.) 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, we're going to 19 return. 20 MS. KIENLE: Good morning. My name is 21 Maureen Kienle and I'm with Navigant. We will now 22 be discussing the scope of coverage for this

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 39 1 rulemaking. 2 General service lamp includes several 3 lamp types, by definition, including general 4 service incandescent lamps, or GSILs; compact 5 fluorescent lamps, or CFLs; general service light6 emitting diode, or LED lamps; organic light7 emitting diode, or OLED lamps; or any other lamps 8 that the Secretary determines are used to satisfy 9 lighting applications traditionally served by 10 general service incandescent lamps. 11 The definition also specifies lamp types 12 that are not covered, including any lighting 13 application or bulb shape that's exempt from the 14 general service incandescent lamp definition or 15 any general service fluorescent lamp or 16 incandescent reflector lamp. 17 As discussed, general service 18 incandescent lamps are included in the definition 19 of GSL. GSILs are standard incandescent or 20 halogen-type lamps that are used in general 21 service applications, have a medium screw base, a 22 lumen output within a specific range, and operate

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 40 1 at a common voltage. 2 Several incandescent lamps are also 3 excluded from the definition, including lamp types 4 as reflector, rough service, colored, three-way 5 incandescent lamps and lamps of certain shapes and 6 wattages. 7 As mentioned previously, the EISA 8 amendments direct DoE to determine whether 9 exemptions for certain incandescent lamps should 10 be maintained or discontinued based in part on 11 exempted lamp sales. In March 2013, DoE reviewed 12 the 2012 sales of the five exempt lamp types. DoE 13 published a notice of data availability, 14 concluding that the five exempt lamp types have 15 not experienced significant growth since their 16 exemption from standards. Because this assessment 17 indicated no further action was necessary, DoE is 18 not planning on including these lamps in the GSL 19 rulemaking. 20 Additionally, the Consolidated 21 Appropriations Act restricts the use of 22 appropriated funds in connection with several

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 41 1 aspects of DoE's incandescent lamps program, 2 specifically Section 315 curtails any further 3 activity to implement or enforce standards for 4 GSILs, therefore, DoE will not be including GSILs 5 in the general service lamp rulemaking at this 6 time. 7 Compact fluorescent lamps are also 8 included in the definition of GSL. However, 9 because this term is not currently defined, DoE 10 will propose a definition for compact fluorescent 11 lamps. CFLs can be self-ballasted, for example, 12 medium screw-base CFLs, or externally ballasted, 13 such as pin-base CFLs. DoE's existing standards 14 apply only to self-ballasted medium-based compact 15 fluorescent lamps. Pin-base CFLs are not 16 currently subject to standards. 17 All medium-base CFLs that meet the 18 definition of medium-base compact fluorescent lamp 19 are proposed to be included in the scope of this 20 rulemaking. However, certain lamps are exempted 21 from the definition of medium-base CFL, including 22 medium-base CFLs designed for a special

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 42 1 applications, medium-base CFLs unlikely to be used 2 in general purpose applications. The definition 3 of medium-base CFL specifically references the 4 GSIL definition for a list of several lamp types 5 that are not considered for use in general service 6 applications. 7 Thus, DoE is interpreting the same 8 exemptions to also apply to medium-base CFLs. The 9 term pin-based is currently defined, however, 10 there is not a definition for a pin-base CFL 11 unless a definition will also be proposed. For 12 this rulemaking, DoE is considering including all 13 pin-base CFLs that serve general lighting 14 applications, are not GSFLs, and are not the lamps 15 excluded from the GSIL definition. 16 In Issue 2, DoE welcomes comment on 17 definitions for compact fluorescent lamp and pin18 based compact fluorescent lamp. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Definitions? Noah. 20 MR. HOROWITZ: If it's appropriate, 21 there was an Item 1 in the document that spoke to 22 scope. If I could talk about the exempted bulbs

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 43 1 very quickly? Thank you. 2 As my colleague Andrew deLaski stated, 3 and I did as well, we think it's premature that 4 there will be no growth of the exempted bulbs and 5 we disagree with DoE's position to not include 6 them in the rulemaking. And, again, the 60 watt 7 bulb is still available. Once it is no longer 8 available, then one could easily imagine sales of 9 the other bulbs could really take off. And I have 10 an example for you. 11 This is a product I bought at Walgreen's 12 in San Francisco. When we had the original 13 rulemaking vibration service required additional 14 filaments. The expectation was that bulb will 15 cost a lot of money, it's going to be a niche 16 product. Even before the standard went into 17 effect--this is for a dozen bulbs--vibration 18 service lamps, 12 for $3.00. That's a quarter a 19 bulb. So this will be the lowest-cost bulb that 20 looks and is marketed exactly as the old 60 watt 21 bulb. And even worse, due to the additional 22 supports, this bulb is less efficient than the old

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 44 1 60 watt bulb, so we'd be going backwards as if 2 we'd never even had Tier 1. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: I'm confused. Is that an 4 incandescent bulb? 5 MR. HOROWITZ: Yes, it is. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 7 MR. HOROWITZ: With the only difference 8 being it has some additional support so it could 9 withstand vibrations. This lamp only gives off 10 600 lumens, where the incumbent bulb gives off 11 roughly 800. So this is exactly why we need to be 12 very careful not to prematurely rule out these 13 sort of products. Thank you, and I'll be sending 14 images of this in our written comment. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Joe. 16 MR. HOWLEY: Noah, I'll just make a 17 mention that there is a requirement now that 18 restricts the packaging sale size to, I believe, 19 two lamps per package. Perhaps it's--I don't know 20 if it's really clear when that went into effect 21 and I think there's different interpretations. 22 However, clearly it's into effect starting in

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 45 1 2014, regardless of previous interpretations. So 2 I think that pack size would be restricted to two 3 lamps going forward. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 5 MR. HOROWITZ: The only point here is, 6 this product is being sold for a quarter a bulb, 7 so even though the pack size might differ, there 8 was clearly profit being made. So even if it's 35 9 cents a bulb in a two-pack, this would be by far 10 and away the lowest cost option on the market. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 12 Additional comments here' Yes, Mike? 13 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan from 14 California IOUs. I just want to reiterate what 15 Noah said and state that from our perspective 16 we've seen a huge amount of shelf space start to 17 open up for all of these exempted lamp types, so 18 we really encourage DoE to consider standards for 19 these. And the conclusion that DoE came to that 20 there was not a sufficient sales spike as of the 21 last time DoE looked at this, that should not be 22 the only trigger. DoE should consider whether

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 46 1 these are appropriate standards, as I said, or 2 appropriate products to set standards for. And 3 for all the reasons that Noah stated, we believe 4 they are. 5 We've started to see a lot of products 6 just over 2600 lumens available for sale right 7 next to the EISA compliant lamps and the shatter 8 resistant, the three-way lamps, they're all 9 marketed right next to the other lamps. So, 10 particularly, as EISA Phase 1 really kicks in, the 11 pressure on that market is going to increase and 12 we're going to start to see more and more of those 13 lamps. 14 And it's just an anecdote, but in my 15 hotel room last night the table lamps had 16 vibration service incandescent lamps in them. So 17 they're starting to pick up. 18 MR. DELASKI: It's when you bump table, 19 Mike. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex. 21 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 22 NEMA will continue to honor our responsibility to

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 47 1 the federal government, tracking and reporting on 2 the sales figures of those lamps and if sales 3 change then, obviously, how much it has changed 4 and that trend will be of interest to everyone. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex, does-- 6 MS. DEBUTTS: Lucy deButts--sorry. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Go ahead, Lucy. 8 MS. DEBUTTS: Lucy deButts, DoE. As I 9 said, as was mentioned earlier, DoE tracks those 10 results; NEMA helps us with that. And it's 11 another cycle that is going to be due in March, so 12 we will definitely take that into consideration. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex, does NEMA have any 14 idea about inventories? Do you know how much is 15 on the shelves everywhere? 16 MR. BOESENBERG: This is Alex 17 Boesenberg. Typically, we're not able to answer 18 that question because my manufacturers tend to 19 sell to distributors and then, after that, we're 20 not sure where it goes. I mean, I have that 21 question in so many different flavors-- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 48 1 MR. BOESENBERG: --so I can tell you the 2 answer is we don't know. Just like I can't tell 3 you how many were sold in Massachusetts or in 4 Vermont or in any other state with mercury 5 concerns and things like that. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 7 MR. BOESENBERG: Just a--no, they're not 8 selling them anymore. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew, please get the 10 microphone close. 11 MR. DELASKI: Andrew deLaski, Appliance 12 Standards Awareness Project. Alex, is the NEMA 13 data--or do all NEMA manufacturers participate and 14 give you answers or respond to your surveys for 15 the lighting products? I'm trying to get a grasp 16 on how complete the NEMA data is that you submit 17 to the Department, so I guess there's two parts to 18 my question. I'll ask them both and you can 19 figure out what you can answer. 20 Do all NEMA manufacturers participate 21 and then do any non-NEMA manufacturers participate 22 in the NEMA data submittals?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 49 1 MR. BOESENBERG: This is Alex 2 Boesenberg. I need to defer to one of my members 3 who participates in that survey because I don't 4 manage it. Joe is the chair of our lamp section 5 and probably knows the answer better than me. 6 MR. HOWLEY: Yes, the immediate past 7 chair of lamp section. 8 (Laughter.) 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank heavens, right? 10 MR. HOWLEY: All NEMA manufacturers do 11 participate in that survey. I do not believe that 12 non-NEMA manufacturers are participating in that 13 survey. I would have to double check with the 14 NEMA statistical department, but I believe that to 15 be the answer right now. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Hey, Joe, could you 17 speculate NEMA manufacturers represent what 18 portion of the market? 19 MR. HOWLEY: Well, certainly the 20 majority. The exact percentage is difficult to 21 provide. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Noah.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 50 1 MR. HOROWITZ: Yeah, what I-- 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Pardon me, back to 3 Andrew. 4 MR. DELASKI: Andrew deLaski, Appliance 5 Standards Awareness Project. The concern is not 6 so much with NEMA manufacturers because we have 7 the data for that, but the concern is the low8 cost products being sold at the dollar store from 9 off-market brands that few of us have heard of 10 before. You know, it's the way that portion of 11 the market where we think there's the greatest 12 risk where you will see the exploitation of 13 potential loopholes. 14 You know, I don't think you're going to 15 see it, at least initially, at sort of the brand 16 name retailers. It tends to happen more on the 17 corners of the market and then the potential is 18 there for expansion where you see this kind of 19 exploitation of loopholes. And once one 20 manufacturer does it and starts getting a cost 21 advantage and getting market share, that creates a 22 lot of pressure for others to follow suit, so this

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 51 1 is the kind of thing that we have to be paying 2 attention to. 3 In addition, I want to just expand on 4 the point that standards for these products may 5 make sense on their own right. You know, lighting 6 is a huge portion, as I said at the outset, of 7 residential energy consumption. I would venture a 8 guess that standards for some of these classes, 9 some of these categories of exempted lamps, would 10 generate potentially savings on the order of other 11 dockets DoE pursues. So they make sense not just 12 from the send of loophole prevention, but because 13 of potentially--on their own merits, even if you 14 weren't concerned about the loophole, but because 15 a lot are sold and they're a significant portion 16 of residential energy consumption. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Noah? 18 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, NRDC. A 19 quick point on collection of sales data. 20 Hopefully, as the docket proceeds, we'd like some 21 clarity if the NEMA survey includes sales of 22 private label bulbs. If you go to Home Depot or

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 52 1 Wal-Mart a lot of the bulbs being sold there are 2 not Philips or GE, but it might be bulbs made by 3 those manufacturers, marketed, for example, under 4 Home Depot or a private label at Wal-Mart, so 5 we're hoping that that data is included. If it's 6 not, let's find a way to get that because that's a 7 significant part of the market share. 8 And the second part is, there are many 9 new manufacturers who were previously very small 10 and their sales are increasing, companies like 11 Cree that make LEDs. If they're not part of the 12 NEMA dataset, we need to find a way to include 13 them. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex. 15 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 16 If my manufacturers make it, regardless of who's 17 name is on it, it's in the survey. And Cree is a 18 NEMA member. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Yes, I didn't 20 get your name, please? 21 MR. NACHTRIEB: Good morning, Robert 22 Nachtrieb from Lutron Electronics. I'm lucky to

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 53 1 be sitting next to Noah, so I can see the 2 packaging of the example that he provided us from 3 Feit and Feit is also a NEMA manufacturer. Thank 4 you. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, thank you. Yes, 6 Mike? 7 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan, 8 California IOUs. Before referenced the EISA Phase 9 1 standards and their impact on exempted lamps, 10 and it probably goes without saying, but obviously 11 this rulemaking that we're talking about now is 12 going to take effect in 2020 and in that time 13 we're going to see a completely different scenario 14 out there and we're talking about EISA Phase 2. 15 And whether it's through this rulemaking 16 or through the backstop, there is going to be 17 twice as much pressure on all of these exempted 18 lamp types, or all of the covered lamp types, by 19 2020. So our comment would just be that the DoE 20 should model what the impacts are, what the future 21 lamp market is going to look like in this 45 22 lumens per watt or equivalent world and consider

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 54 1 what is likely to happen to sales of all of these 2 exempted lamp types, not just looking 3 retrospectively at lamp sales patterns. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe Howley. 5 MR. HOWLEY: Just a note that we are 6 required to continue to monitor five exempted lamp 7 types that are probably the most likely to be used 8 as potential alternatives. And I would just note 9 that if in this monitoring, if one of those types 10 crosses the threshold, that probably might be the 11 appropriate time for DoE to consider it, but it 12 would be after it crossed that threshold. But 13 we'll know that data within this rulemaking 14 process. Certainly there will be two or three 15 more surveys within the rulemaking process. So 16 it's probably the appropriate time to look at if 17 any of these exempted types are presenting a 18 problem. I think it will become clear with these 19 surveys if it is an issue or not. 20 MS. DEBUTTS: Lucy deButts. As stated 21 before, we will consider the survey. DoE has the 22 authority to initiate a rulemaking if one of those

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 55 1 exempted lamps go over the threshold, so we will 2 consider all comments and proceed with the 3 rulemaking accordingly. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew. 5 MR. DELASKI: So I wanted to bring it to 6 a different topic, if that's okay? 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah, that sounds good. 8 And, in fact, typically we try and stay fairly 9 close to the-- 10 MR. DELASKI: Well, I guess-- 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, go ahead, Andrew. 12 MR. DELASKI: --the slides before this 13 skidded through a few different issues and I don't 14 know whether it will come up later or whether-- 15 REPORTER: Can you come closer to the 16 microphone? 17 MR. DELASKI: The slides before this 18 went through a few different issues that did not 19 get comment boxes and I don't know whether it is 20 appropriate now to ask questions now about those 21 slides-- 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's do it now. Yeah,

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 56 1 since we're on this divergent tangent here. 2 MR. DELASKI: And so, let me start with 3 CFLs since that's the slide up there. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes. 5 MR. DELASKI: In my opening comment I 6 mentioned some questions about DoE's plans with 7 respect to the quality specifications for CFLs. 8 Will that come up later or is this an appropriate 9 time to talk about that? 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's talk about it now. 11 MR. DELASKI: So the question I asked 12 for the Department is, the Department has 13 described this as the review required under the 14 Look Back Provision that says that DoE must issue 15 a proposed rule or a determination of no revision 16 within six years of the last final rule for CFLs. 17 And the CFL standard is an unusual one because it 18 does include quality specifications, I think 3 or 19 4 and I'm forgetting precisely which they are, but 20 they are from--and they were copied from Energy 21 Star 2001 and they were enacted into law. 22 I think most CFLs on the market now are

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 57 1 Energy Star. It's gone through a couple 2 iterations since then, so it would make sense, in 3 our view, to update the quality specifications to 4 reflect the current Energy Start specification 5 since this will go into effect several years from 6 now in terms of those quality parameters instead 7 of what's now clearly outdated. 8 So question 1 is, is the Department 9 looking at updating the quality specifications as 10 authorized by EPACT? 11 MS. McDONALD: This is Ali McDonald. 12 We're looking at whether there's quality-- 13 REPORTER: Can you sit back? You're in 14 a dead zone with the wireless. 15 MS. McDONALD: We're looking at those 16 quality specifications that you mentioned and if 17 you have specific comments about updating them or 18 how they should be updated or, I think, earlier 19 you mentioned additional specifications, I think 20 in your-- 21 MR. DELASKI: Yeah, so the statute has 22 two parts. You know, one part says you have these

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 58 1 existing specifications and the DoE's authorized 2 to update the existing specifications for rapid 3 stress tests and a couple of different items. And 4 in addition, DoE is authorized to set new 5 specifications for additional parameters and those 6 parameters are spelled out, additional features, 7 and power factor is one of them. 8 So, the question is, is the DoE also 9 considering adding additional factors? And they 10 also are ones that are in Energy Star and have 11 been in Energy Star for a long time, so. 12 MS. McDONALD: It's something we're 13 considering, so we welcome any comments on it. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: I thought you had two 15 issues. 16 MR. DELASKI: Yeah, so the two issues 17 are updating existing quality specifications and 18 the second issue is adding new quality 19 specifications. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 21 MR. DELASKI: If you consider power 22 factor as a quality specification?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 59 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Let me bring everyone 2 back to Slide 16. And I'm not sure we've had 3 adequate comment yet on Issue Box 2, the CFL 4 definitions. Alex? 5 MR. BOESENBERG: This is Alex Boesenberg 6 from NEMA. I'll comment to 2, 3, and 4. I'll say 7 that NEMA is developing our written comments, our 8 proposals, and/or recommendations for definitions 9 for the various types of lamps. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Andrew. 11 MR. DELASKI: So then if we could step 12 back to the slide in which DoE mentions the rider? 13 I suspect this is the one time the rider's going 14 to come up in the presentation, is that right? 15 MS. SHER: Yeah, I can--this is Celia. 16 Sure, I can talk about that now. 17 MR. DELASKI: Okay. 18 MS. SHER: So we've interpreted this 19 rider to mean that DoE is precluded from engaging 20 in a rulemaking involving the covered lamps, which 21 include GSILs. This is obviously an important 22 issue to stakeholders, so we would encourage you

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 60 1 to submit your comments and we'll take those into 2 consideration and do our best to respond to them. 3 MR. DELASKI: This is Andrew deLaski 4 with ASAP. I'm not going to ask this as a 5 question, I'll pick it as a statement. I don't 6 think the Department can evaluate standards for 7 general service lamps without evaluating 8 incandescent lamps. So, in other words, if you're 9 going to set standards, even if you're not going 10 to modify the standard as they relate to general 11 service incandescent lamps, if you're going to set 12 standards for other lamps that are general service 13 lamps, that's going to affect general service 14 incandescent lamps because they are substitutes 15 one for the other. 16 So, for example, when DoE does a 17 rulemaking for incandescent reflector lamps, which 18 is a whole separate docket, DoE evaluates the 19 market share of LED reflector lamps, which are not 20 related products. You have to look at LEDs 21 because it's a growing market share. You know, 22 you walk into any major lighting retailer right

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 61 1 now and they're right there at eye level, right? 2 That's what they want to be selling because it's 3 an attractive new product that's got, I suspect, a 4 lot of appeal. 5 So DoE evaluates LED technology even 6 though it's not part of the rulemaking. 7 MS. SHER: Okay, so-- 8 MR. DELASKI: So DoE, in this instance, 9 I think has to evaluate it, even if it isn't part 10 of the rulemaking. 11 MS. SHER: So this is Celia again. So 12 you're saying that you would like us--even though 13 you're not saying that you want us to make it part 14 of the standard, but even that we should include 15 it in our evaluation. 16 MR. DELASKI: I do think you should make 17 it part of the standard. Don't get me wrong. 18 MS. SHER: Right. 19 MR. DELASKI: But at the very least-- 20 MS. SHER: Is it prohibited by the 21 right? 22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 62 1 2 3 MR. DELASKI: --from an analytical point 4 of view. 5 MS. SHER: Okay. 6 MR. DELASKI: You can't do a true and 7 accurate analysis on the question that you have to 8 answer statutorily. 9 MS. SHER: Okay. 10 MR. DELASKI: That Congress has said you 11 have to answer without, you know, considering the 12 entire marketplace, like you do in every docket. 13 DoE always looks at substitutes, whether they're 14 regulated or not, and that's true, I think, of 15 every single docket that I've seen. So not having 16 it subject to the standard doesn't mean you can't 17 evaluate it, although my going-in position is that 18 you should. 19 MS. SHER: Right. 20 MR. DELASKI: That you need to go and 21 look at the rider. 22 MS. SHER: Okay, this is Celia. That's

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 63 1 a useful comment and we'll certainly take that 2 into consideration. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Joe? 4 MR. HOWLEY: Just to add on to the 5 conversation, which, again, goes back to the 6 original concept that industry envisioned after 7 2020, certainly part of the market would be 8 products that were under 45 lumens per watt. And 9 so the analysis that if this new standard, 10 combined with what the existing market was for 11 products under 45 lumens per watt, averaged 45 12 lumens per watt, you could declare that the 13 rulemaking achieved its objective of hitting 45 14 lumens per watt, on average the savings equivalent 15 to a standard, as if every product had 45 lumens 16 per watt. So that analysis that Andrew is 17 suggesting, actually, makes some sense under that 18 context as well. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Mike. 20 MR. McGARAGHAN: Sure. Mike McGaraghan. 21 I just wanted to add a perspective on the 22 equivalent savings. I don't think it's a trivial

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 64 1 or easy number to calculate, multiplying sockets 2 by 45 lumens per watt. I think that's actually a 3 pretty challenging effort to model that scenario 4 because if you set a standard that was a flat 45 5 lumens per watt, you'd actually see a larger 6 market share for LEDs and CFLs as a result. So 7 you'd have to model that whole market. 8 So the comment earlier was that LBNL 9 suspects that DoE will do that during this 10 rulemaking. We think it's a really important part 11 of this rulemaking and part of the whole thing. So 12 whether it's DoE doing as in this docket or 13 separate, we'd like to track it and we encourage 14 you to make that a public process because it's 15 actually a fairly complicated question, I think. 16 Thanks. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Additional 18 comments on Issue Box Number 2 definitions before 19 we move on? Noah? 20 MR. HOROWITZ: I'm going to stay in the 21 present here, if I can, and address Issue 2. We 22 agree that both CFLs, whether they're screw- based

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 65 1 or pin-based, should be included. And one of the 2 challenges we'll get to when we discuss pin-bases 3 in more detail is what do you connect that pin4 based lamp to? What is the ballast? Is there an 5 assumed ballast because it's really a system? 6 Thank you. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Other 8 comments on CFL definitions? 9 (No response.) 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, we're going to move 11 on. 12 MS. KIENLE: Okay. General service LED 13 lamps are also included in the definition of GSL. 14 The term general service LED lamp is not currently 15 defined and thus DoE will also propose a 16 definition for this term in the rulemaking. DoE is 17 considering including all LED lamps that serve 18 general lighting applications and are not the 19 lamps excluded in the GSIL definition. 20 In Issue 3, DoE welcomes comment on a 21 definition for a general service LED lamp. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: And I would repeat for

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 66 1 the record what Alex Boesenberg already said. NEMA 2 is developing their definitions for Issues 2, 3, 3 and 4. 4 Other additional comments on Issue 3, 5 LED definitions? Nothing additional here? 6 (No response.) 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 8 MS. KIENLE: Okay. OLED lamps are also 9 included in the definition of GSL. However, DoE 10 is considering excluding OLED lamps from this 11 rulemaking for two main reasons. First, OLEDs are 12 diffuse light sources that are made of thin layers 13 of carbon-based semiconductor material. This 14 layer-based construction supports the development 15 of large flat surfaces, rather than the typical 16 lamp shapes. Because of this they are not 17 generally used in general lighting applications. 18 Second, OLEDs are an emerging technology 19 with limited commercial availability. Therefore, 20 it's also unclear whether the efficacy of existing 21 OLED lamps can be improved. 22 In Issue 4, DoE welcomes comment on the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 67 1 commercial availability of OLED lamps that can 2 serve in general lighting applications and DoEs 3 consideration to exclude these lamps from the 4 rulemaking. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Celia. 6 MS. SHER: This is Celia Sher. So, to 7 respond to the comments that we received earlier, 8 I think "exclusion" was not the appropriate word 9 to use here. We are considering not setting 10 standards for OLEDs, not excluding OLEDs. So, 11 under EPCA we can decline to set standards if we 12 find it is not economically justified. You can 13 certainly disagree with us and send us any 14 comments and data you have and we'll take that 15 into consideration. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Joe Howley. 17 MR. HOWLEY: NEMA generally agrees that 18 it is inappropriate to set OLED standards at this 19 time for this particular rulemaking. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Do you want to say a 21 little more about that, Joe? 22 MR. HOWLEY: No, I think that's--

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 68 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, I just thought I'd 2 give you a chance. DoE welcomes comment on the 3 commercial availability of OLED lamps that can 4 serve as general lighting applications. Other 5 comments related to Issue Box 4? Noah? 6 MR. HOROWITZ: This is a question--and 7 pardon my ignorance if it's already there--is 8 there an existing definition by DoE and/or the 9 statute for OLEDs. If not, then we need to have a 10 clear one to distinguish between LEDs and OLEDs, 11 especially if no standard will be set for OLEDs. 12 MS. KIENLE: There is a definition for 13 OLED already. 14 MR. HOROWITZ: In the statute? 15 MS. KIENLE: Yes, in 10 CFR 430.2. 16 MR. HOROWITZ: Okay. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 18 MS. KIENLE: Not a definition for OLED 19 lamp, but an organic light-emitting diode. 20 MR. HOROWITZ: Right, so we might need 21 to extend that to an OLED lamp. 22 MS. KIENLE: Okay. I see.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 69 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional thoughts or 2 comments here? 3 (No response.) 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 5 MS. KIENLE: Pursuant to the definition 6 of GSL, DoE also has the authority to consider 7 additional lamps that satisfy the lighting 8 applications traditionally served by GSILs. The 9 definition of GSIL states that these lamps are 10 typically intended for general service 11 applications, have a medium screw-base, a lumen 12 output within a certain range, and operate at a 13 common voltage. DoE is, therefore, proposing that 14 any lamps that meet these 4 GSIL criteria are 15 included in the scope of this rulemaking, 16 regardless of the technology used to produce the 17 light. 18 DoE surveyed the market and found 19 additional lamp types that it believes are 20 intended to serve general lighting applications. 21 The first type is a hybrid lamp. Hybrid lamps use 22 one lighting technology as the primary application

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 70 1 and another technology to provide supplemental 2 lighting. For example, DoE found CFLs with a 3 halogen capsule that provides instant illumination 4 during the CFL warm up period. After the CFL 5 warms up, the halogen capsule is turned off. 6 Another example is a CFL lamp that also 7 contains an LED mounted inside the CFL spiral to 8 provide night light functionality. The second 9 type, identified as a self-ballasted mercury vapor 10 lamp that's intended for general service 11 applications. DoE identified self-ballasted 12 mercury vapor lamps that meet the GSIL 13 specifications and are also marketed as GSIL 14 replacements. 15 In Issue 5, DoE welcomes comment on a 16 definition for a hybrid lamp. In Issue 6, DoE 17 welcomes comment on additional lamp types that 18 should be considered. And in Issue 7, DoE 19 welcomes comment on any lamps discussed that 20 should not be considered within the scope of this 21 rulemaking. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 71 1 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 2 I will reiterate my previous comment that we are 3 developing comments for the definition of a hybrid 4 lamp and there are some suggestions that I am 5 reviewing with my members regarding additional 6 lamp types. 7 Issue 7, we will also comment on my 8 manufacturers? knowledge of the market for those 9 lamps listed. I would back up and question the 10 sensibility of thinking that people are going to 11 race out to buy mercury vapor lamps with all of 12 the excitement regarding the 2 milligrams of 13 mercury in a CFL. But we're seeing if we even 14 make them and can comment on their market share, 15 since there are some lamps excluded due to market 16 share. We're pretty sure mercury vapor is even 17 less, but we're actually having trouble finding 18 those numbers, they are so small. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Noah. 20 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, NRDC, 21 regards Issue Number 7, reiterating comments made 22 earlier. We think there may well be a lot of

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 72 1 lamps that are sold that are just over 2600 2 lumens. We've seen some 2650 lumen lamps, for 3 example, that are marketed as 150 watt 4 incandescent, so we would hope that DoE could 5 consider extending the maximum lumen output range 6 beyond 2600, to cover those 150 and 200 watt 7 incandescents which could increase in sales, in 8 particular, as Tier 2 goes into effect. 9 Similarly, three-way lamps could be 10 another way and we'd like to see those included in 11 the scope. Thank you. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Final 13 comments on Issue 5, 6, and 7? Yes, Andrew 14 deLaski? 15 MR. DELASKI: I just want to concur 16 Noah's comment and I think make a general point 17 that it strikes me that in all likelihood we would 18 find that the sales of some of these lamps that 19 are "exempted" from the initial standards are 20 significantly larger than these additional 21 categories that are listed here. And these hybrid 22 products are mercury products, so I think, yeah,

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 73 1 the DoE should be focused on where the opportunity 2 lies in terms of evaluating standards. And the 3 opportunity is likely going to lie in some other 4 directions than the ones enumerated here. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Mike? No? Okay. 6 Yes, Joe. 7 MR. HOWLEY: Joe Howley. Just to not-- 8 again that three-way and the higher lumen lamps, 9 the 150 watt lamps, are included in our annual 10 surveys. And, therefore, DoE has the ability to 11 evaluate those to see if indeed it's an exempted 12 lamp type of concern or not. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, we're moving on. 14 MS. KIENLE: Okay. EPCA sets forth to 15 an early applicable criteria and procedures for 16 DoE's adoption and amendment for test procedures. 17 Manufacturers of covered products must use these 18 test procedures to certify compliance with 19 standards and to quantify the efficiency of their 20 products. 21 DoE is considering developing and 22 amending test procedures for products included in

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 74 1 the definition of GSL. Test procedures for GSILs 2 and medium-base CFL are existing and the LED lamps 3 test procedure rulemaking is currently underway as 4 well. 5 Test procedures for pin-base CFLs and 6 the additional lamp types identified would need to 7 be developed. And, as discussed, DoE did not 8 identify any OLED lamps that fall within the scope 9 of this rulemaking and, therefore, a test 10 procedure is not necessary at this time. 11 In Issue 1, DoE welcomes comment on the 12 adoption of test procedures for additional lamp 13 types covered in this rulemaking. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex Boesenberg. 15 MR. BOESENBERG: This is Alex with NEMA. 16 As always, we will provide more detail in our 17 written comments on this, but I wanted to, for the 18 record, state a couple of topics. One is just a 19 general comment. The more lamp types you add that 20 don't have a test procedure right now, the longer 21 it takes to accomplish the rulemaking, so a 22 concern for timing.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 75 1 And as Noah Horowitz already pointed out 2 and might elucidate further, given the topic right 3 now, pin-based CFLs, because they are externally 4 ballasted, can appear to have an efficiency 5 advantage over their self-ballasted peers because 6 the losses in the ballast are part of a standard 7 self-ballasted CFL efficiency calculation, whereas 8 the pin-based CFL is just a fluorescent tube 9 driven externally from something outside the pins. 10 And it would be important that both the test 11 procedure recognize how to best accommodate that. 12 We do not have a reference ballast at this time. 13 And furthermore, just on the subject of 14 pin-based CFLs, in general, my manufacturers 15 assure me that that technology has been maxed out 16 for its efficiency. Whether or not some savings 17 are possible or if you look at the average of the 18 fleet, there are some that perform better, so we 19 can identify those in this. It may end up being a 20 very minor increment. I understand that when the 21 DoE does it all nationally sometimes minor is 22 significant, but we will be very interested in

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 76 1 seeing what the technical support document reveals 2 regarding that. 3 It's a niche market. And it's really 4 not test procedures, but since I'm talking about 5 pin-based CFLs, we point out that they are not a 6 direct replacement for the 5 million incandescent 7 screw-based products, even though they are used in 8 some cases for general service lighting because to 9 retrofit my mother's table lamp with a pin-based 10 CFL, I have to trash it to put a pin-based socket 11 on it. Or may likely, the scenario is that you 12 have to buy new luminaries to take advantage of 13 pin-based products. 14 If there's a screw-based product already 15 out there that fits your existing fixture, well, 16 you are not going to buy a pin-based. So that 17 market is noticeable, but minor and its chance to 18 grow is only if people buy new fixtures. 19 Regarding the test procedures, one last 20 point. There are at least two rulemakings or I 21 would say pairs or, you know, related rulemakings 22 that the DoE is pursuing. One is in lighting, one

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 77 1 is not. Where the rulemaking for test procedures 2 have been run concurrently with the standards rule 3 and we've been on record, we've gone ex parte 4 about both of those, and the concerns of how do I 5 comment on what I'm being judged on in the 6 standard when I don't know exactly yet what the 7 test procedure is? We will continue to voice 8 those concerns. 9 And I would illustrate, it's no one's 10 fault here in this room, but we are now commenting 11 this next month to the electric motors standard, 12 NOPR, for the Energy Conservation Standard. And 13 part of my comment is a detailed correction or 14 suggestions for improvement to the definitions of 15 the product classes that came out in the test 16 standard procedure that was only released a month 17 before the standards NOPR and the Department--I 18 understand why they try to do what they do and I'm 19 glad that they tried--they did their best, but now 20 I've got to use the standards rule to fix the test 21 procedure definitions. And if we'd just done the 22 test procedure first, we wouldn't know how to do

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 78 1 that. 2 And, you know, we certainly don't want 3 to end up there in HID. So, choosing a list of 4 products for the advantage it provides in getting 5 the test procedures done quickly, there is a lot 6 of timing and complexity issues that that 7 provides. I'm not saying that's how you have to 8 do it, that's not necessarily our consensus 9 position yet regarding which types we suggest be 10 included. Just that the more you add, the more 11 temptation is to run them concurrently. 12 We've got some displayed challenges in 13 the other rules that have attempted that and we're 14 on record, we don't want it to be the habit. So I 15 am obliged to point that out again. Thank you. 16 MS. DEBUTTS: Lucy deButts. I will 17 respond--oh, sorry. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucy, please. 19 MS. DEBUTTS: I just want to respond to 20 the last point about the test procedures running 21 concurrently or after the standards have been 22 issued. If John Cymbalsky was here he would have

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 79 1 definitely told you that we've learned a lesson 2 and we're trying to make sure that the test 3 procedures are coming before the standard. That's 4 why when you look at the slide, we're trying to 5 issue the test procedures for those products prior 6 to the standards, so the industry will have the 7 ability to comment and look at a test procedure 8 before a standard gets into effect. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Lucy. Noah. 10 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, NRDC. 11 Comments on the test procedure in Issue 1. Two 12 points. 13 Hybrid lamps, we think those are 14 increasing in sale on the CFL side, in particular 15 products being marketed by GE. Those products are 16 brighter and use more power when the consumer 17 initially turns on the bulb, and then after a 18 certain amount of time--call it one or two 19 minutes, whatever that time is--it then goes down 20 to a lower light output level and consumes a lot 21 less power. So if hybrids are included, which we 22 think they should be, the question is how do you

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 80 1 set up the test and when do you make the 2 measurement? Is it after 10 seconds or after 2 3 minutes? I don't know what the right answer is, 4 but I think it's longer rather than shorter, when 5 the lamp is at a steady state. 6 Secondly, in terms of sample size, the 7 performance requirements for CFLs that were cut 8 and pasted from Energy Star 2 way back when. Many 9 of the tests are based on a sample size of five. 10 Right now Energy Star and the test method that's 11 in there, assume 10 samples. So it would be good 12 if we can update the sample size to be consistent 13 with current testing methods, so we can use that 14 data for future enforcement. Thank you. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Additional 16 comments here? 17 (No response.) 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 19 MS. KIENLE: Okay? Next we will discuss 20 the market and technology assessment and the 21 screening analysis. 22 The purpose of the market and technology

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 81 1 assessment is to determine product classes and to 2 identify technology options to improve lamp 3 efficacy. To do this DoE will characterize the 4 GSL market. For the screening analysis, DoE will 5 screen out technology options based on four 6 criteria. 7 DoE will look at technological 8 feasibility, that is whether the technology is 9 commercially available or in a working prototype; 10 practicability to manufacture, install, and 11 service, meaning it should be possible to achieve 12 mass production and reliable installation and 13 servicing of a technology in commercial products 14 on the scale necessary to serve the market, but it 15 does not have adverse impacts on utility to 16 consumers or availability and that it does not 17 have adverse impacts on health or safety. 18 In Issue 8, DoE welcomes information on 19 shipments, product future and efficiency trends, 20 distribution channels, and the estimates of market 21 shares for the lamps considered in this 22 rulemaking.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 82 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex Boesenberg. 2 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg with 3 NEMA. As always, I am working with the NEMA 4 business office and my members to provide as much 5 information as possible regarding market share and 6 trends. I recognize, of course, that we don't 7 represent 100 percent of the market, but we'll do 8 everything that we can. I'm always interested in 9 helping the DoE get as much data as soon as 10 possible. 11 And I think I'll put in my written 12 comments. I would have been better if I'd waited 13 until Item 8 to talk about the pin-based CFL 14 thing. The practicability to install, there's 15 where the pin-base runs into these 5 million 16 sockets we're trying to hit, if that's how many 17 there still is. 18 Pin-based are not a ready install, and 19 while that doesn't mean they should be excluded, 20 the fair way to perform the feasibility analysis 21 is if it's expected to retrofit a screw-based 22 socket, the cost of the new luminaire that accepts

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 83 1 those pin-based products is reasonable to include. 2 And so we'll be interested in seeing what that 3 analysis shows regarding feasibility of financial, 4 et cetera. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 6 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz with NRDC. 7 At the risk of stating the obvious, the lighting 8 market is not static, with or without the 9 standards. We're seeing LED sales escalate 10 dramatically and their price is coming down, so we 11 hope that DoE doesn't take a static approach, 12 taking a snapshot of the market today and using 13 that modeling to assume that's where we're going 14 to be in 2020. 15 So, LED sales, I think there is a 16 consensus that sales will increase dramatically. 17 The question is, will they be taking sales away 18 from CFLs and/or from the current filament-based 19 products? Nobody knows the answer, so we hope you 20 explore a various range of options for 21 stakeholders to comment on. Thank you. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Alex?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 84 1 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 2 I would amplify what Mr. Horowitz said. One 3 realization we had in discussions was for some of 4 the incandescent or even CFL technologies-- you 5 know, we're still gathering data making sure LEDs 6 last as long as everybody says they do. Assuming 7 they do--and I believe they will, at least for the 8 reasonable estimations. The people guaranteeing 9 50 years, they hope they're around when that thing 10 fails and they can give you a new one, but 11 probably they won't be. 12 But for the trend we're seeing with the 13 longer lifetimes of LEDs and the ever-increasing 14 popularity and reduction in price for the types 15 that, you know, the first timers will buy, one 16 interesting point is, if the other technologies at 17 play, particularly incandescent, are shorter 18 lived, when that socket then has to be filled 19 again, it's worth analyzing and estimating what 20 product is going to go in it. 21 The fact that incandescent will hold on 22 while people stay with what they know, I think

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 85 1 over time that will reduce. And so, the next time 2 that bulb burns out, they'll put an LED in. That's 3 certainly, as I see it, working in my own personal 4 life. So if that's an interesting dynamic to try 5 to figure that algorithm out. 6 Once a socket is an incandescent doesn't 7 mean it stays that way. And even so, after the 8 first or second lifetime--which is pretty short- - 9 then a long-life, high-efficiency product goes in 10 there. So I don't know how we're going to capture 11 that, but we look forward to attempting that in 12 the TSD. 13 MR. HOWLEY: Just to follow on to that, 14 the alternative is-- 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe Howley. 16 MR. HOWLEY: Yes, Joe Howley. Once an 17 LED bulb goes in, even LED bulbs going in today 18 most likely will still be there in 2020, and so 19 it's a cumulative building of LED products. As 20 they're going into sockets they're removing the 21 availability for that socket to get a halogen or a 22 CFL. Even if a CFL goes in today, now with the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 86 1 new Energy Star spec--I believe it's 10,000 hours2 - those will also most likely still be here by 3 2020. So as these technologies continue to be 4 bought and sold, they're reducing the market for 5 potential, say, halogen lamps or incandescent 6 lamps to be sold as well. So they have to be 7 analyzed sort of in a cumulative socket. LEDs are 8 a little different, and CFLs, because they're in 9 the sockets for so long once they're put in. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's hear from Brian. 11 MR. GERKE: This is Brian Gerke from 12 LBNL. I'm going to suggest that we delay further 13 discussion of this topic until we're talking about 14 the shipments analysis, which is where that will 15 be considered. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Robert. 17 MR. NACHTRIEB: I'll delay this topic 18 until we talk about shipments analysis. Thank 19 you. 20 (Laughter.) 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Final comments on 22 market assessment?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 87 1 (No response.) 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 3 MS. KIENLE: Okay. One of the main 4 results of the market and technology assessment is 5 the establishment of product classes, which are 6 fed into the engineering analysis. DoE divides 7 covered products into classes by the type of 8 energy used, capacity of the product, or any other 9 performance related features that require 10 different standard levels, such as features 11 affecting consumer utility. DoE then establishes 12 separate energy conservation standards for each 13 product class. DoE is considering establishing 14 separate product classes for GSLs based on three 15 factors. 16 The first is ballast location or if a 17 lamp is self-ballasted or externally ballasted. 18 The second factor being considered is cover or if 19 a lamp has a cover or if it's bare. And a cover 20 is typically an extra glass enclosure around the 21 light source, such as an A-line bulb shape that 22 you sometimes see that are used to cover a spiral

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 88 1 CFL. The final factor under consideration at this 2 point is its immobility. Because these three 3 factors are thought to affect both efficacy and 4 utility, DoE is considering eight separate product 5 classes based on these divisions. 6 In Issue 9, DoE welcomes comment on the 7 product class divisions under consideration, in 8 particular DoE welcomes comment on the impact that 9 ballast location and dimmability have on the 10 efficacy of CFLs and LEDs. DoE also welcomes 11 comment on the utility offered by self- ballasted, 12 covered, and dimmable lamps. 13 In Issue 10, DoE welcomes comment on any 14 other class setting factors that should be 15 considered. And in Issue 11, DoE welcomes comment 16 on a definition for the term "covered" which is 17 applicable across all technologies. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Mike. 19 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. 20 Reading through the product classes, it's hard to 21 understand where certain types of lamps would fit 22 into each class and I'm wondering if DoE can

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 89 1 provide that information before we issue--before 2 we submit our comments? 3 Specifically, questions like if 4 incandescent lamps were being evaluated here, 5 would they be self-ballasted? They don't have a 6 ballast, would they be covered or bare? And then 7 the same question for LED lamps. Most LED lamps 8 have some sort of covering, but it's actually in 9 some cases there's a remote phosphor, so it's not 10 just a cover, it's actually part of the emitter. 11 So it's hard to comment on these product classes 12 without understanding where different types of 13 lamps would fit. 14 And then the last comment is on the term 15 "dimmable" and wondering if DoE is going to define 16 that a little better. Dimmability isn't just a 17 yes or no type of situation. It's sort of a scale 18 of how dimmable something might be. Is it down to 19 2 percent? Is it 20 percent? If there's a step 20 dimming, does that count? So specificity on what 21 dimmable means would help in this, too. 22 MS. KIENLE: Sure, yeah. They can

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 90 1 comment just on the first part. We're looking at 2 the market right now and analyzing that. Kind of 3 what you've said is what we've seen as well. So 4 we've seen LED lamps that probably qualify as 5 having an external covering, but we'd welcome 6 comments on any suggestions on how you think the 7 products would align. And we'll, obviously, be 8 putting more information out there in the next 9 round on where they would fit in. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe. 11 MR. HOWLEY: So, just initial 12 observations on the product classes is, especially 13 the externally ballasted, dimmable/non-dimmable, 14 did not make a lot of sense to us. The pin-based 15 lamps themselves that have no ballast are not 16 necessarily designed to be dimmed or not dimmed. 17 There are manufacturers that make dimmable 18 ballasts that will dim these lamps, but the lamps 19 themselves are not necessarily made to be dimmed 20 or not dimmed. So that particular classification 21 split for externally ballasted is probably not a 22 very good one.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 91 1 In addition, most of those are bare 2 lamps. The pin-based lamps would be bare lamps. 3 So there are certain categories--well, I don't how 4 you would define dimmable versus non- dimmable, 5 what you'd put where. 6 And then bare versus covered, the 7 majority of those would go into bare. So, again, 8 I'm not sure that those product classes make sense 9 for the externally ballasted. They do seem to 10 make a lot more sense for the self- ballasted CFL 11 or LED, but not so much for the externally 12 ballasted. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 14 MR. STEPHENS: I'm Charlie Stephens, 15 Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. This is 16 sort of a general comment and I'm not sure how 17 many questions DoE will be able to answer with 18 this, but sometime in the next six months there 19 will be a database, downloadable from our website, 20 that will have all of our metering data from 21 socket by socket for 2200 sockets, by room, by 22 fixture type, by lamp type. And we'll have hours

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 92 1 of use by fixture type, by room, by lamp type, and 2 energy use, annual energy use. And we'll have 3 that statistically applied to the entire Northwest 4 based on 1400 houses that were surveyed for 5 fixture type, lamp type, lamp wattage, and all 6 those sorts of things. 7 So you'll be able to spread that over 8 the entire population and we'll have all the 9 demographics that go along with all of those 10 households, so you'll be able, hopefully, to parse 11 that out for where our demographics don't match 12 other places. But that will be downloadable from 13 the website, we think, in the next six months and 14 there will be a report that will come out here in 15 the next six months that will explain how all of 16 that was done and you can download that, too. 17 Anybody can. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Noah. 19 MR. HOROWITZ: A question for DoE and 20 their consultants. An LED bulb by itself doesn't 21 have a ballast. It is a driver. So are LEDs 22 self-ballasted? Externally ballasted? We think

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 93 1 neither, in which case, how would you intend to 2 handle them? 3 MS. KIENLE: Just as a comment as well, 4 we noted in the framework document that we're 5 using "ballast" and "drivers" somewhat 6 interchangeably in this rule, but that's something 7 that we'll have to consider, that an LED generally 8 has the driver. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe Howley. 10 MR. HOWLEY: Just on the other question 11 that you had about additional product classes, we 12 think there's other factors affecting lamp types 13 that would also affect efficiency, particularly in 14 the color area. And we'll comment more on, maybe, 15 classifications, more involving color than 16 involving whether they're externally ballasted or 17 have an external driver. As Noah points out, it's 18 more correct to say driver when you're referring 19 to LED technology. Thank you. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional comments here? 21 Did we cover all three of these, 9, 10, and 11? 22 Did you have anything that you want to queue?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 94 1 MS. KIENLE: I think if we?'ll just 2 expect to see some, hopefully, some written 3 comments addressing any of the definitions, as 4 Alex mentioned before. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 6 MR. DELASKI: This is Andrew deLaski 7 with ASAP. I think if I just make a general point 8 and close on this one. I think that as you think 9 about your product classes, you've got to design 10 them in a way that they're robust, that they can 11 accept new technologies as they come along, right? 12 I know the DoE has a method to give 13 guidance to manufacturers when questions come up. 14 Where does this thing fall into the structure may 15 come up a lot. Although, unfortunately, I guess 16 you guys can't get those questions answered these 17 days due to the rider. But it strikes me that one 18 of the things you want to do is, you know, to have 19 a product class structure where it's clear, as 20 clear as possible, you know, that it can 21 accommodate lots of different kind of products 22 that may not even be on the market today or

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 95 1 included in DoE's scope today. 2 And that when you use a term like 3 "ballast," which has a particular meaning in the 4 industry and in the world, to mean something other 5 than ballast, that creates a lot of tension. You 6 know, when ballast means driver, you know, that's 7 not a particularly robust structure and creates 8 ambiguities that I would hope that you would look 9 to address as you go through the next phase of the 10 rulemaking. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucy. 12 MS. DEBUTTS: As Maureen said, we 13 welcome all comments on that and any suggestions 14 you may have. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Ken Rider, who is joining 16 us via the web, has raised his hand. He wishes to 17 speak. Ken, unmute your phone and join us. 18 MR. RIDER: Hi. Yes, as you mentioned, 19 this is Ken Rider from the California Energy 20 Commission. I have a question and it may lead to 21 a comment here. So in earlier slides you 22 mentioned that you're really focused in this

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 96 1 rulemaking on medium screw-base lamps. And if I'm 2 incorrect on that, I think that if you do include 3 other base types, smaller base types, for example, 4 candelabras, maybe a type of product class that 5 you would want to differentiate because of space 6 constraints in certain products? 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. So I 8 guess we're ready to move on then? 9 MR. McGARAGHAN: Doug. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Oh, one more. Mike. 11 MR. McGARAGHAN: Can the DoE confirm 12 that you are--well, I guess that's not the right 13 way to put it. You're obviously not looking at 14 technology based standards or product classes at 15 this point. Is that something that you would 16 consider? 17 And one of the reasons I ask is-- 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Can you give an example, 19 Mike? 20 MR. McGARAGHAN: For example, an LED 21 product class or a CFL product class. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Yeah.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 97 1 MR. McGARAGHAN: CFLs already have 2 standards set for them and because of the 3 backsliding clause, DoE cannot end up with any 4 standard that's weaker for CFLs, so if there are 5 no technology distinctions in the product classes 6 that would suggest that the end result here for 7 all GSLs would have to be stronger than the 8 current medium-base CFL standards in EPCA. And 9 that may be DoE's intent, but I'm not sure that's 10 where you are aiming to go here, so I wanted to 11 flag that and see if DoE has a comment on it or if 12 anybody else in the room has a comment on that at 13 this time? 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucy? 15 MS. DEBUTTS: Maureen. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: No, Maureen? 17 MS. KIENLE: I would just say that, 18 right, so the way that the product classes are 19 structured right now, this is just, again, the 20 framework stage, so--or even before the 21 preliminary analysis here. They wouldn't be 22 technology specific, but we, of course, would have

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 98 1 to consider existing standards that are in place 2 already. If you have any other comments, though, 3 and you want to provide a written comment, that 4 would be great, too. 5 Yes, we are aware. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, anything additional 7 here? 8 (No response.) 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, we're moving on. 10 MS. KIENLE: Okay, so now we'll move on 11 to discussing the technology options that improve 12 efficacy of GSLs. Technology options are measures 13 that improve the energy efficiency of products. 14 This slide shows the options that DoE is planning 15 to examine currently. 16 The technology options listed here are 17 organized by lamp type as these are technology 18 specific. Also listed as a technology option is 19 the transition to higher efficiency technologies. 20 For GSILs this list includes technology options 21 that increase operating temperature and improve 22 the filament. For CFLs this list includes options

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 99 1 such as higher efficiency phosphors and fill gases 2 as well as improved ballast for self-ballasted 3 CFLs. For LEDs this list includes options 4 centered around improvements to package efficacy, 5 increased thermal management, improved optics, 6 improved driver design and other options, such as 7 reducing the current density. 8 Technology options that pass the 9 screening criteria are considered design options 10 and will be considered as ways to improve the 11 efficacy of products in the engineering analysis. 12 They will also help DoE to determine the Max Tech 13 design. 14 In Issue 12, DoE welcomes comments on 15 the preliminary technology options identified and 16 whether there are additional technology options 17 that should be considered. In Issue 13, DoE 18 welcomes comments on the applicability of the four 19 screening criteria to the technology options 20 listed. And in Issue 14, DoE welcomes comments on 21 how the four screening criteria would apply to any 22 additional technology options that are considered.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 100 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex Boesenberg. 2 MR. BOESENBERG: This is Alex 3 Boesenberg, NEMA. NEMA has commented in previous 4 rulemakings to general service incandescent lamp 5 and CFL technology options and so we are 6 revisiting our responses to those to ensure that 7 they are still current and I'll submit those with 8 our written comments. And we are developing 9 technical comments to the LED since we've not 10 necessarily had to comment on that before and so 11 that will be included in our written comments. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Mike. 13 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. 14 Halogen infrared is one of the best technology 15 options to improve incandescent filament 16 technology and I don't see it here and maybe it's 17 just here by a different name? 18 MS. KIENLE: That is something that we 19 could consider, too. I'm not sure if it's 20 explicitly listed. This is just a preliminary 21 list, but we'll definitely consider that. And if 22 you want to submit that in written comments as

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 101 1 well, that would be great. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Issue 12, 13, and 14, 3 additional comments? 4 (No response.) 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. So I think we're 6 due for a break. 7 MS. KIENLE: Yes. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: It's now 10:35. Let me 9 note that we're about halfway through these 10 slides, so if we get to 12:30 and we're almost 11 done, we're going to press on and finish and not 12 break for lunch. Okay, as a plan. 10:35, which 13 means we'll resume at 10:50 here in this room. 14 Please make sure you wear your badge. I would 15 note that my little plastic clip is not working 16 very well. It keeps falling off. Keep track of 17 it. They want you to wear this badge when you're 18 inside the Forrestal Building. 19 Most of you, I think, are aware there's 20 a coffee shop down on the ground floor and you 21 hang a left and just about right underneath us. 22 And go quickly if you're going for coffee. And

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 102 1 there's also a Coke machine as you turn that 2 corner there, if you want to get that. 3 So we'll resume at 10:50. Thanks, we've 4 made a good start on the day and we'll resume at 5 10:50. 6 (Break.) 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, let's resume. 8 Please take your seats. 9 Okay, we're going to pick up where we 10 left off, then we're going to hear from Aisha. 11 MS. HUSAIN: Hi, I'm Aisha Husain and 12 I'm with Navigant. We'll be moving on to 13 discussing the engineering analysis now. 14 So the engineering analysis and the 15 product price determination, which we'll discuss a 16 little bit later, together are used to determine 17 the relationship between efficacy and the end-user 18 price. The results of these analyses are also 19 used downstream in the life- cycle cost analysis, 20 the national impact, and the manufacturer impact 21 analysis. 22 So this slide shows step-by-step the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 103 1 general methodology DoE plans to use for 2 engineering analysis. The first step is choose 3 representative product classes. DoE then selects 4 baseline lamps for each representative product 5 class to use as reference points. And then for 6 each baseline lamp, DoE identifies more 7 efficacious substitutes based on design options 8 determined in the screening analysis. DoE then 9 develops efficacy levels that range from the 10 baseline to the maximum technologically feasible 11 efficacies. And finally, DoE scales these results 12 to the non-representative product classes, which 13 are product classes that are not directly 14 analyzed. 15 I will now go over each of these steps 16 in a bit more detail. 17 So for representative product classes, 18 as was mentioned, DoE will not analyze every 19 product class. Instead, it will choose a 20 representative product class on which to focus its 21 analytical efforts. And these are typically 22 chosen based on high shipment volume.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 104 1 Based on preliminary research, DoE has 2 found that self-ballasted products are more common 3 than externally ballasted. Dimmable products are 4 more common than non-dimmable and bare lamps are 5 more common than covered lamps. 6 So in Issue 16 we're welcoming comments 7 on what DoE should consider as representative 8 products and in particular request shipment 9 information for lamps included in this scope of 10 this rulemaking. It would be most helpful if this 11 information could be provided broken down by 12 ballast location, whether the lamp has a cover or 13 is bare, and dimmability. And I know we had 14 questions on the definition of dimmability. 15 And for Issue 17 DoE is looking for how 16 characteristics of lamps with high shipment volume 17 change depending on the lamp technology. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Alex Boesenberg. 19 MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA. 20 Can the Department elucidate on the item 2 under 21 the third bullet, dimmable products are more 22 common than non-dimmable?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 105 1 Obviously, we haven't done the detailed 2 market analysis yet, but if CFLs--of the products 3 listed, if CFLs are the bulk of the market since 4 LED is emerging and the standard CFL is non5 dimmable, whether there's a dimmer there or not--I 6 hear this every day, believe me- -so how--it's my 7 own personal--I don't have a NEMA survey on that, 8 but my own personal observation is that CFLs 9 probably are--of the products listed, is covered 10 by this rule or the majority, and the standard CFL 11 is not dimmable. So was there any analysis to that 12 or is that just an assumption? 13 MS. HUSAIN: So when we did this we were 14 looking at basically what the product offerings 15 were for CFLs and LEDs and based this analysis on 16 that, not necessarily market share. But we'd be 17 open to any information you can provide because 18 that would definitely be helpful. 19 MR. HOWLEY: This is Joe Howley from GE. 20 I can state that certainly the non-dimmable type 21 of CFL is much more common than dimmable by a huge 22 factor. When I looked at this I thought perhaps

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 106 1 you were talking about just lamps and sockets are 2 generally more dimmable because in a medium screw 3 base world a lot of those are still incandescent 4 or halogen and, of course, those are always 100 5 percent dimmable. But in CFL or LED today, most 6 of them are not dimmable. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's hear from Ali. 8 MS. McDONALD: This is Ali McDonald. We 9 realize that some of these characteristics vary 10 based on the technology that's use. So it's 11 helpful, you know, for comments to elaborate on 12 that or point out differences in popularity within 13 technology as well. We put dimmable products are 14 more common than non-dimmable for most products 15 thinking, as you are, acknowledging that non16 dimmable CFLs are probably more popular for that 17 technology type. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 19 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, NEEA. I 20 just wanted to make a note here that based on the 21 data that we got in the field, there were some 22 pretty not surprising observations we were able to

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 107 1 make here. I'm not sure shipment volume by itself 2 is enough of a criterion to be looking at 3 representative product classes because unlike so 4 many other products, like air-conditioners or 5 refrigerators or such, these different 6 technologies have different lifetimes, they have 7 different numbers of hours. 8 You know, for instance, we found that 9 about 25 percent of the sockets, literally 10 sockets, in our houses in the single-family 11 sector--we also do multi-family and manufactured 12 homes--but in the single-family sector were CFLs, 13 but they were way more than 25 percent of the 14 operating hours. And so the savings, the energy 15 savings, derived not from how many sockets there 16 were and, therefore, how many sales, but it 17 depended on the lifetime of the product, which 18 interacts with the number of hours that the 19 product is in it and, in some cases, how many 20 times it's switched on and off. 21 So there's a lot of factors here that 22 will impact the economics of all of this that

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 108 1 don't have to do with just shipment volume here. 2 And I also would point out that because 3 lifetimes are shifting and because they're so 4 different for the different products, the future, 5 as has been pointed out by others here today, what 6 will happen because of the standard and in the 7 future could be radically different from the way 8 it is today. So what I know today is pretty 9 perishable compared to what we will need to know 10 and forecast going forward. So I would just urge 11 DoE to look at more than shipment volume here as 12 you select what to analyze. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Andrew? 14 MR. DELASKI: Another issue with 15 shipments that's a little different for this 16 product compared to other consumer durables, 17 although I think an LED of becoming a consumer 18 durable, is inventory in people's homes. You 19 know, no one buys an air-conditioner and puts it 20 in a box in the basement, but you do buy light 21 bulbs and put them in a box in the basement. 22 So I think Tom Eckman from Power Council

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 109 1 sent me the data from the Northwest, and maybe 2 Charlie can corroborate this, but that in the 3 Northwest, in the data that they have, is that a 4 typical home has 25--well, about two-thirds of the 5 lamps in a typical home are covered by EISA 6 standards. And of those, about half are CFLs, 7 according to the data that Tom sent, but another 8 five CFLs are in storage. So if you look at the 9 data and the sales you would think that everybody 10 has--every socket should be CFLs by now based on 11 the data, but the fact is that's not true, in part 12 because there's an inventory that happens with 13 light bulbs in people's homes and that needs to be 14 reflected in the analysis. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. So, 16 we're still looking for the additional comment on 17 product classes here, I think. By ballast 18 location, covered or bare, other thoughts on 19 Comment Box 16. Mike. 20 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. I'm 21 going to try to rephrase a question that I didn't 22 quite get an answer to earlier. You say here that

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 110 1 bare lamps are more common than covered lamps, so 2 that means DoE has done some assessment of what 3 types of--you know, which category each products 4 falls into. So, for example, incandescent lamps, 5 are they bare or covered lamps? 6 MS. HUSAIN: So I think the way we 7 approach this for the framework was a covered lamp 8 would be something that's maybe where you would 9 consider like a frosted coating, so some 10 incandescents would fall under that and others 11 would fall under a bare. 12 MR. McGARAGHAN: Okay. 13 MS. HUSAIN: But we're open--I mean, as 14 we said earlier, like for those definitions and 15 how those are classified, we're open to any 16 comments and where you think technologies would 17 fall and the utility of that product class as 18 well. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Keith. 20 MR. COOK: Keith Cook with Philips. I 21 guess I'm still confused. What about LED lamps? 22 Most of those, are they covered or bare?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 111 1 MS. HUSAIN: So I think we consider most 2 of those covered. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Because they're in a 4 capsule? 5 MS. HUSAIN: Because they have an outer6 -yeah, the A-shapes, if you look at those we would 7 consider those as covered. 8 MR. COOK: Even though the lamp it's 9 replacing looks identical to it is bare? 10 MS. HUSAIN: Right, I mean, you would 11 have--that's why we're considering different 12 product classes for bare versus covered. 13 MR. McGARAGHAN: Keith, this is Mike. 14 And I think what I heard is that on incandescents 15 they would call a frosted incandescent, you're 16 basic-- 17 MR. COOK: Yeah--but-- 18 MR. McGARAGHAN: As a covered-- 19 MR. HOWLEY: This is Joe Howley. I 20 think really for incandescent and perhaps even LED 21 it's probably more logical to look at clear versus 22 diffuse coatings. For CFL it makes sense to look

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 112 1 at bare, which meaning the bare spiral versus a 2 covered spiral. But for the LED and incandescent 3 you're really looking at a clear glass or you're 4 looking at a diffuse glass. And I think there 5 does need to be further work on these 6 classifications and how you're looking at these 7 technologies. 8 MS. HUSAIN: Sure, and that's a good 9 point there. 10 MS. McDONALD: This is Ali McDonald. I 11 also wanted to mention, you know, we keep saying 12 we'll welcome comments on the definition of 13 covered, also welcome comments on whether a 14 covering should be a product class factor or not. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, Noah. 16 MR. HOROWITZ: Something I had assumed 17 differently. Did I understand it right that if 18 the bulb has a "cover" or "enclosure," but if 19 that's not frosted, if it's clear, that's 20 considered a bare bulb? 21 MS. HUSAIN: Right. In the framework 22 that's how we looked at it.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 113 1 MR. HOROWITZ: Okay. Thanks. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, so we're moving on. 3 MS. HUSAIN: Okay. So the next step is 4 selecting a baseline lamp for each representative 5 product class. A baseline lamp is what DoE 6 believes to be the most common, least efficacious 7 lamp within each representative product class. For 8 products that do not have existing standards, DoE 9 plans to select the most common, least efficacious 10 lamp. For products that do have standards, DoE 11 plans to select the most common, least efficacious 12 lamp that just meets those standards. 13 In Issue 18 DoE is requesting comments 14 on its approach to baseline lamps. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here. Yes, 16 Noah. 17 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz with NRDC. 18 I think we need to be careful here what's a 19 baseline lamp. It could be brighter lamps versus 20 less bright. So, for example, a 40 watt lamp and 21 its alternatives might be very different than the 22 100 watt ones in terms of pricing and

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 114 1 availability. So I don't know if light output is 2 one of the criteria or you could have multiple 3 baseline lamps is probably what might be needed. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Thank you. 5 MR. HOROWITZ: Thank you. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional on baselines? 7 MS. HUSAIN: So DoE will select a higher 8 efficacy replacement for each baseline lamp by 9 considering technologies not eliminated in the 10 screening analysis. When considering more 11 efficacious designs DoE plans to consider lamps 12 that emit lumens equal to the lumen output of the 13 baseline lamp or are greater than or below the 14 baseline lamp by no more than 10 percent. DoE also 15 plans to select commercially available lamps for 16 this analysis. 17 In Issue 19 DoE requests comments on 18 this methodology. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe. 20 MR. HOWLEY: Joe Howley. Just to bring 21 up one issue that occurred in another rulemaking 22 is that sometimes the highest volume lamp is the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 115 1 least efficacious, but sometimes it is not. And I 2 think in the terms of establishing an energy 3 efficiency regulation you probably want to look at 4 the least efficient technology as your baseline. 5 If it happens to be the highest volume, then that 6 certainly is the correct lamp to pick for your 7 baseline, but if it's not the highest volume I 8 think still the least efficacious lamp should be 9 your baseline. 10 I don't know if that occurs here or not. 11 I mean, we've had a lot of discussions on what the 12 classes should be and perhaps there'll be changes 13 to these classifications, but it's really hard for 14 us to determine right now in some cases what lamps 15 fit into what classes, given how the classes have 16 been proposed. I think we need to relook at what 17 the classifications are and then that might make 18 it clearer what the baseline lamps should be in 19 those classifications. Thank you. 20 MS. HUSAIN: Okay. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Final comments 22 here. Yes, Mike.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 116 1 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. We 2 agree with Joe's comment that the efficacy is the 3 more important metric to look at for establishing 4 the baseline. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, that's helpful. 6 Thank you. Okay. 7 MS. HUSAIN: All right. After 8 identifying the more efficacious substitutes for 9 each baseline lamp DoE develop efficacy levels 10 based on three factors. These are: the design 11 options associated with a specific lamp, the 12 ability of the lamp to comply with the efficacy 13 level of a given product across wattages, and the 14 Max Tech efficacy level. DoE's considering 15 developing continuous equations that represent 16 levels of efficacy issue across all wattages. And 17 for this analysis DoE will consider compliance 18 data submitted by manufacturers as well as data 19 from verification testing, such as what is 20 provided in the DoE Lighting Facts database. 21 In Issue 20 we're welcoming comments on 22 the methodology for developing efficacy levels,

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 117 1 particularly on the equation-based approach, and 2 in Issue 21 requesting comment on the use of 3 compliance and verification test data to establish 4 these levels. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Keith. 6 MR. COOK: Keith Cook from Philips. I 7 think one thing we need to start thinking about, 8 though, is instead of trying to group these things 9 by wattages, we need to do it by lumens, simply 10 because that's how they will essentially be bought 11 for the applications. But more importantly is 12 there's such large variations in the wattages for 13 the same application anymore that it no longer 14 makes any sense to do it that way. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Joe. 16 MR. HOWLEY: Joe Howley with GE. The 17 equation-based approach we've seen used in some 18 rulemakings in a tiered or stepped approach we've 19 seen used in other rulemakings. I think both 20 potentially could be considered. It depends on 21 what you're trying to achieve, but I think it was 22 very successful to use the step approach in the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 118 1 previous incandescent rulemaking and I don't think 2 we should immediately toss out that as a potential 3 approach to use here. The equation-based 4 sometimes is not the best approach. Certainly 5 it's something that can be analyzed, but I think 6 we could assume it's always the best approach for 7 each rulemaking. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Mike. 9 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. First, 10 just to echo Keith's comment, I wholeheartedly 11 agree that lumens is the driver there and that's 12 what identifies the product utility, so standards 13 and equations should be based on lumens, not 14 wattage. 15 And then on the curve versus a stepped 16 function, I felt like in EISA Phase 1 what ended 17 up happening is we ended up seeing a bunch of 18 products introduced right at the least efficacious 19 part of that step and ended up with products that 20 maybe weren't as bright as what the consumer 21 thought they might get. So it creates a--it's a 22 mis-incentive there in the design process if you

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 119 1 have a step. You no longer have--you give an 2 advantage to lesser products than the products 3 that the consumer may have been seeking out at a 4 certain lumen light output. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe. 6 MR. HOWLEY: I would just counter that 7 by saying, though, it did have an effect of having 8 all manufacturers end up at the same wattage 9 points and to avoid consumer confusion versus, for 10 instance, the 72 watt is now the replacement for 11 the 100 watt across all manufacturers. With a 12 linear function we could have been at seven 13 different wattage points and just produced massive 14 consumer confusion. So there's some marketing 15 benefits and other industry benefits and consumer 16 education benefits to perhaps focusing on a step 17 point, if you will. I thought that's the part 18 that worked well with the incandescent standard in 19 terms of educating the consumer to the new wattage 20 point levels. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah? Oh, Jen, please. 22 MS. AMANN: Jennifer Amann, ACEEE. Just

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 120 1 adding to that point, I think, you know, the 2 manufacturers and the advocacy community and 3 others have spent a lot of time and effort in the 4 recent years educating the consumer about the 5 importance of shopping based on lumens. Getting to 6 Keith's point, as we're seeing more and more 7 products enter the market with very different 8 wattages for delivering the same lumen package, I 9 think we'll be getting away from that. And so 10 while the step function may have served that 11 purpose in the past, I think, you know, hopefully, 12 we'll have made great strides toward getting the 13 shift to lumen-based purchases before the standard 14 takes effect. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Ken 16 Rider has raised his hand. Ken, you're next in 17 the queue. Please speak. 18 MR. RIDER: Yeah, hi. This is Ken Rider 19 from the California Energy Commission. I have a 20 question on Issue 20. When you talk about 21 considering different levels for all covered lamp 22 technologies, does that mean that in the baseline

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 121 1 and all the different levels you'll only be 2 looking at CFL and LED levels or will baseline 3 potentially include some incandescent technologies 4 even though they're not what you're looking to 5 (phone drop) in the scope of this (phone drop)? 6 MS. SHER: Hi, this is Celia Sher. Can 7 you rephrase your question again? 8 MR. RIDER: Yeah, so I'm wondering 9 you're going to develop a baseline and then a-- 10 (phone connection drops) market Max Tech level and 11 you say here for all covered lamp technologies 12 (phone drop). I'm wondering if (phone drop) you 13 will develop the baseline only for CFLs and LEDs 14 and look at CFL and LED replacement and one 15 another up from levels or if you'll also consider 16 that some baseline products will be incandescent 17 even though that is not covered, but is a covered 18 lamp technology and it's (phone drop). 19 MS. SHER: Okay, and this did come up 20 earlier and we--you know, that falls under our 21 constraints, under the rider, and we will consider 22 your comment. I can't answer that right now, but

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 122 1 we will--if you provide that as a written comment 2 we'll take into consideration. 3 MR. RIDER: Okay, thank you. 4 MS. SHER: Yeah. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 6 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz with NRDC. 7 I want to reiterate support for what Keith Cook 8 from Philips said that future standards should be 9 focused on the light output, the amount of lumens 10 the bulb gives out. And the way to do that is 11 setting minimum efficiency standards as a function 12 of light output. And we support the notion of a 13 smooth, continuous curve and we encourage DoE and 14 its consultants to look at what Europe has done. 15 Their standards are smooth, continuous curve since 16 it's a very large market. The levels probably 17 might be different than Europe because you have to 18 take into account the different voltages involved. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Final 21 comments here? Yes, Dave. 22 MR. GATTO: Dave Gatto, Westinghouse.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 123 1 Just a comment on the intention to use compliance 2 data. We agree with that. However, we would like 3 to point out that when we've had some ex parte 4 conversations with DoE and with industry and 5 otherwise, there's noise in the compliance 6 database due to confusion about how to enter 7 certain things, simple human error. Even in the 8 case of the GSIL, the template doesn't allow 9 certain products to be entered at this time. So 10 we would simply like DoE or Navigant, whoever's 11 doing that analysis, to keep in mind that there 12 are going to be outliers and we would recommend 13 that you ignore those in any baseline 14 establishment or you're going to potentially 15 create a disruption in the market because we've 16 used a number that's not real. 17 MR. BROOKMAN: As is always the case, 18 the Department would especially appreciate 19 detailed comments on this kind of stuff. Yeah, 20 okay. And we're moving on. 21 MS. HUSAIN: Okay, so finally DoE will 22 develop efficacy levels for their product classes

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 124 1 that are not analyzed by scaling from the levels 2 determined for the representative product classes. 3 To do so, DoE plans to determine scaling factors 4 by comparing efficacies of representative products 5 to non- representative products. 6 And in Issue 22 DoE requests comments on 7 its scaling methodology. 8 MR. BROOKMAN: Comments on scaling? 9 (No response.) 10 MR. BROOKMAN: No comments here. 11 MS. HUSAIN: Okay. So the next slide is 12 a bunch of requests for comments. Issue 15 is a 13 general request on the--on comment on engineering 14 methodology that has been presented. Issue 23 is 15 comments on proprietary designs that are relevant 16 to this rulemaking. Issue 24 requests comments on 17 regulatory burdens that we should be considering 18 in the engineering analysis. And 25 welcomes just 19 any other issues regarding engineering analysis. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Mike. 21 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan, 22 California IOUs. My understanding is that the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 125 1 engineering methodology is--or the engineering 2 assessment has generally developed a cost 3 efficiency relationship. And then later in the 4 price section you convert that into end-user 5 prices. And my read is that you're not doing that 6 here and that all price analysis is happening in 7 the price--in the product price determination 8 section. Is that accurate? 9 MS. HUSAIN: Right. So we're developing 10 the levels and the engineering analysis and then 11 I'll be discussing after this the product price 12 determination where we'd be determining end-user 13 prices associated with those levels. 14 MS. McDONALD: This is Ali McDonald. 15 This is consistent with the approach in general 16 service fluorescent lamps and incandescent 17 reflector lamps. 18 MR. McGARAGHAN: Okay. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Ali, would you repeat 20 that? I'm sorry. 21 MS. McDONALD: Oh, boy, here we go. It's 22 consistent with an approach that has been taken in

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 126 1 previous rulemakings, so the rulemaking for 2 general service fluorescent lamps and incandescent 3 reflector lamps took a similar approach where end4 user prices were determined directly. 5 MR. McGARAGHAN: Thank you. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew. 7 MR. DELASKI: Can we--I just infer from 8 your comments, so can we infer that you'll do what 9 we've done in that docket as the approach in this 10 one or there'll be some variation from what we've 11 done with the GSFL/IRL docket. I mean, are you 12 seeing a variation on that or you said "consistent 13 with," how consistent with? Is it the same thing 14 or is it-- 15 MS. McDONALD: Sure, well, I guess the 16 point that, you know, oftentimes DoE develops like 17 an MSP, a manufacturer's selling price, and then 18 applies mark-ups. And though that cost efficiency 19 is used in later analyses, here we're kind of 20 instead of going right to an MSP and applying 21 mark-ups, we're going right to an end- user retail 22 price. So that approach is what we're describing

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 127 1 here and that's consistent with previous 2 rulemakings, previous rulemakings for some other 3 lighting products, like the GFLs and IRLs. 4 MR. McGARAGHAN: So if we have 5 additional comments on your pricing approach at 6 this point, we should hold them until we get to 7 the pricing section. 8 MS. McDONALD: The next slide, yeah. I 9 was just going to talk about it. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, yes. Well, so what 11 about proprietary designs, regulatory burdens, and 12 other engineering issues? 13 (No response.) 14 MR. BROOKMAN: No additional comments 15 here? Okay. 16 MS. HUSAIN: Okay, so now we'll move on 17 to the product price determination. As mentioned, 18 the engineering analysis and product price 19 determination provide a relationship between the 20 efficacy level and the end-user price. The 21 product price determination will establish end22 user prices for representative lamp units

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 128 1 identified in the engineering. 2 DoE plans to apply discounts to Blue 3 Book values based on the relevant distribution 4 channels for these products. Specifically, DoE's 5 pulling together prices from state procurement 6 contracts, electrical supply distributors, home 7 improvement/hardware stores, and Internet 8 retailers. DoE then plans to develop a range of 9 discounts based on these various distribution 10 channels and come up with high, medium, and low 11 prices for each lamp. Where a Blue Book value is 12 not available for a lamp, the price will be 13 extrapolated from available lamp prices. 14 So on Issue 27 your comments are welcome 15 on the pricing methodology. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Robert. 17 MR. NACHTRIEB: Robert Nachtrieb, Lutron 18 Electronics. DoE has already published 19 exponentially decreasing prices, dollars per 20 kilolumen for LEDs. The methodology that you're 21 describing here seems to take a snapshot and hold 22 that constant. How do you intend to project the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 129 1 declining prices of LEDs with this methodology and 2 the increasing market adoption of LEDs that 3 result? 4 MR. GERKE: This is Brian Gerke from 5 LBNL. It is probably best for me to answer that 6 question. We will be looking at DoE's previous 7 analyses and currently we're considering taking a 8 similar approach to what was done there for LEDs. 9 For other technologies we will use 10 similar methods to what DoE's used in the past for 11 rulemakings: looking at historical shipments, 12 historical prices, and putting together a 13 projection of future prices from that. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 15 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah with NRDC. I think 16 as people are aware, the price for the exact same 17 bulb might vary very much depending which retail 18 outlet you went to purchase it and whether you 19 bought it as a onesie or in a multipack. Some of 20 the CFLs and the new halogen incandescents, if you 21 buy it in a multipack it could be $1.50 each or 22 you could buy a single bulb for $5 for the exact

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 130 1 same bulb. So we need to be careful to 2 distinguish between the retail cost of the bulb 3 and what it costs to make. There could be a very 4 big difference there. 5 Also, as you just mentioned LED, 6 tomorrow's LED might not only be more efficient, 7 but also cost less. The assumption in these 8 dockets often is the more efficient bulb costs 9 more than today's less efficient bulb, and I think 10 we have to be careful not to make that same 11 assumption. Thanks. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Mike. 13 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. Will 14 you be developing price efficiency curves then 15 based on all the data you collect? If you collect 16 product prices for a wide array of products, will 17 you then generate some sort of relationship 18 between efficacy and user price? 19 MS. McDONALD: Sure. This is Ali. 20 That's ultimately what's created here. You 21 combine the outputs of the engineering and product 22 price determination and you have a cost efficiency

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 131 1 curve. Sorry-- 2 MR. McGARAGHAN: Okay. You have a price 3 efficiency curve, yeah. 4 MS. McDONALD: Yes. 5 MR. McGARAGHAN: And then, the Blue 6 Books, can you expand on those? Are those 7 publicly available? Are you going to publish 8 what's in them? 9 MS. HUSAIN: So we usually obtain Blue 10 Books from manufacturers and they're usually not 11 publicly available. We request for them. And 12 that was one of the--Issue 29 was one of the 13 Requests for Comment we had on what--maybe the 14 manufacturers can speak on the availability of the 15 Blue Books or price schedules for the lamp 16 technologies that are covered in this rulemaking, 17 in particular LEDs. But, yeah, they're usually 18 something that we request from manufacturers. 19 MR. McGARAGHAN: And then would they 20 become part of the docket? Would they be public 21 in the rulemaking? 22 MS. HUSAIN: We request those under

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 132 1 NDAs. We don't publish the Blue Book prices. We 2 use them in our analysis. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Have we skipped 4 distribution channel? 5 MS. HUSAIN: Yeah, if there's any 6 comments on distribution channels. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Let's see if we can get 8 some comment on distribution channels. 9 MS. HUSAIN: So we mentioned a few that 10 we were considering--the state procurement, the 11 large electrical supply distributors, the home 12 improvement stores, and Internet retailers--if you 13 have any comments on those or additional ones. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Joe. 15 MR. HOWLEY: The distribution channels 16 you're mentioning are often also distribution 17 channels for more of the commercial products. The 18 consumer products we're talking about here, 19 though, often go into additional retail channels, 20 such as mass merchants and/or drugstores, grocery 21 stores. So I think that the distribution of these 22 general service lamps is a little bit broader than

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 133 1 the distribution that you might find in more of 2 the commercial products, which is electrical 3 distributors and direct state contracts and things 4 of that nature. This list looks like it was 5 developed for one of the other rulemakings for the 6 commercial products, so you may want to expand it 7 to a few more consumer channels for this 8 particular analysis. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. Oh, pardon me, 10 Terry. 11 MR. McGOWAN: I would also like to add 12 for the more efficient products, such as CFLs and 13 particularly LEDs, there are now new retailers 14 that are hoping to enlarge their share of the 15 market, and these would include retailers such as 16 battery stores. One just recently changed its 17 name from Batteries to Batteries and Bulbs. There 18 are also lighting showrooms, many of which are ALA 19 members, who because of the higher cost of LED 20 products now find these profitable to sell via 21 lighting showrooms. And by "lighting showrooms" I 22 do mean retail showrooms for consumers, generally

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 134 1 consumer- oriented, that do sell lighting 2 products-- lighting fixtures, controls, and bulbs3 -to the consumer as part of their product line. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 5 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz with NRDC. 6 As part of this pricing methodology we think it 7 would be good for DoE to not only collect 8 individual price per product data, but also 9 relative waiting of sales. So, for example, for 10 the mass merchants and the large retailers, 11 whether it's Home Depot or lighting which is more 12 in the hardware do-it-yourself category or 13 somebody like Wal-Mart like Target, if 80 percent 14 of the bulbs are being sold there at lower price 15 points, you want to weight that versus the bulb 16 that might be sold as a onesie at the Safeway 17 grocery store where volume might be much lower. So 18 it'd be good to get some data on volume 19 distribution. 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 21 MS. HUSAIN: And we would definitely 22 welcome comments on that. Specifics would be

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 135 1 great. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Final comments on these 3 three: pricing methodology, distribution 4 channels, and Blue Books. Yes. 5 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. A 6 comment, too, about experience curves, which you 7 mentioned you were going to utilize. We think 8 that's the right approach to use. One comment on 9 that is there's a number of different ways you 10 could implement experience curves for any product. 11 But specifically for this one experience curves 12 generally take a certain rate of industry 13 experience and apply that every time, total 14 shipments double. So if you look at total 15 shipments of general service lamps they're 16 doubling very, very slowly because they've been 17 around a long time. So we would recommend that 18 you look specifically at LEDs and specifically at 19 CFLs and specifically at incandescent because 20 they're entirely different technologies on totally 21 different parts of their experience curve. 22 And then lastly, I've got to come back

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 136 1 to the Blue Books thing. I am still not totally 2 clear on what DoE's proposing to do. You're going 3 to gather these Blue Book values and do your own 4 research into actual prices that you find in the 5 market and then throw those all together as equal 6 contributors to the analysis? Am I understanding 7 it? So you'll have some manufacturer Blue Book 8 prices and some that you gathered yourself and 9 then analyze them altogether? 10 MS. HUSAIN: So the Blue Book prices 11 would be used as sort of the starting point of the 12 price analysis and then we would look up, based on 13 distribution channels, retail prices and compare 14 those to the Blue Book prices that are provided 15 and come up with a discount analysis as was 16 indicated in the previous slide. And so in this 17 discount analysis we would basically, based on a 18 high, low, medium discount, come up with, you 19 know, low, medium, high prices. The discounts 20 would then be applied to, you know, Blue Book 21 values to get to an end-user price. 22 MR. McGARAGHAN: I see.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 137 1 MS. McDONALD: Yeah, so this is Ali 2 McDonald. One of the reasons we use the Blue 3 Books is to try and develop a consistent starting 4 point for prices and work off of those to get to 5 the retail prices. 6 MR. McGARAGHAN: So you'll just collect 7 enough retail prices to be able to make these 8 conversions, the discounts. 9 MS. McDONALD: Right, to feel confident 10 in developing a relationship between those Blue 11 Books and the retail prices. 12 MR. McGARAGHAN: Got it. Okay. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Robert. 14 MR. NACHTRIEB: Robert Nachtrieb, Lutron 15 Electronics. I'd like to support the point that 16 Mike just make. If the experience curves are 17 going to be part of the methodology for 18 determining the decline in prices of LEDs, then I 19 would ask that the methodology of those experience 20 curves also be made available so that they can be 21 scrutinized. Is it because of learning in the 22 manufacturing process? Is it because of

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 138 1 competitive pressures? What are the reasons why 2 the price is declining? At least let's have that 3 methodology be available for scrutiny. Thank you. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Mike. Andrew. 5 MR. DELASKI: Just a question for 6 clarification. This is Andrew deLaski. As we've 7 been talking this through it occurs to me that I 8 don't really understand what a Blue Book price is. 9 Can someone describe for me what a Blue Book--what 10 goes into a manufacturer's Blue Book price? 11 MR. HOWLEY: Suggested retail. 12 MR. DELASKI: Suggested retail. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Is that Ali? 14 MS. DEBUTTS: It's for manufacturers. 15 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, please. 16 MR. DELASKI: And is that a common--just 17 to follow up on my question. So, Joe, I thought I 18 was trying to interpret what you said, that that's 19 more commonly a tool for the commercial market. 20 Were you saying it's more commonly a tool for the 21 commercial market than for the consumer market? 22 MR. HOWLEY: No, I didn't comment at all

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 139 1 with regard to Blue Books, and that includes 2 everything. 3 MR. DELASKI: It includes everything, 4 okay. Okay, thank you. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Now Mike. 6 MR. McGARAGHAN: Mike McGaraghan. One 7 other comment on this methodology. If you don't 8 first develop a cost efficiency curve, then do you 9 have a method to estimate the price of future 10 products that aren't necessarily around yet, new 11 technologies that are in development now or, you 12 know, that are on a certain trend in terms of 13 their improvement? Will you be able to use this 14 methodology to forecast prices for those types of 15 products? 16 MS. HUSAIN: So are these products that 17 are commercially available? If we've considered 18 them--if we're able to consider them in the 19 engineering analysis and identify them as 20 representative lamp units, we would figure out the 21 prices for them as well. Is that your question or 22 are you talking about products that are not

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 140 1 considered in the engineering analysis? 2 MR. McGARAGHAN: Products that are not 3 necessarily commercially available yet, which 4 shouldn't be screened out of your analysis. 5 MS. HUSAIN: So-- 6 MR. McGARAGHAN: Your analysis doesn't 7 necessarily have to only look at products that are 8 on the shelves. So I'm wondering how you come up 9 with prices for those types of products. 10 MS. HUSAIN: I mean, we can look at 11 working prototypes that, as was mentioned in the 12 screening analysis, we can look at working 13 prototypes that meet all the screening criteria. 14 And if they don't have a price plan, I think we 15 would try to gather as much information as we can 16 as feedback we can get from the manufacturers or 17 any other resources. 18 Ali, did you want to-- 19 MS. McDONALD: Sure. Yeah, this is Ali. 20 We'd welcome any kind of information, not only 21 expected retail price, but also differences in 22 manufacturing costs associated to make those and

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 141 1 whatever especially incremental cost would be 2 expected to produce those products on a commercial 3 scale. 4 MR. McGARAGHAN: Okay. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 6 MR. HOROWITZ: I think I'm with Andrew 7 on this. I'm still struggling with the concept of 8 a Blue Book. A suggested manufacturer retail 9 price often is just a number and retailers could 10 sell something for a quarter of that price or more 11 than that. And isn't what's more relevant what 12 we're seeing in the market versus a manufacture 13 number that might not necessarily be used? 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Lucy. 15 MS. DEBUTTS: I think what we're trying 16 to say is that we're going to use the Blue Books 17 as a base, but then it's not going to be the only 18 consideration the DoE is making. We're going to 19 get the bigger set of data and welcome anything we 20 can get from the stakeholders to evaluate the 21 pricing. 22 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 142 1 MR. HOROWITZ: So to clarify then, will 2 part of DoE and consultants? task to go into 3 retail and do an actual survey of what the real 4 prices are? 5 MS. HUSAIN: Yes. 6 MR. HOROWITZ: Great. Thank you. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, 27, 28, 29, taking 8 one more peek. We're about to move on. 9 MR. DELASKI: Just one observation I 10 had. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew. 12 MR. DELASKI: I think in terms of 13 pricing on this one, it's tricky because, I mean, 14 just look at the historical pattern. You know, I 15 think the light bulbs that are being marketed 16 today, Joe or Keith can correct me if I'm wrong, 17 that are just compliant with the existing 18 standards were not on the market in 2007, so 19 they're not in their head. So there are places in 20 this market where we have to be able to look at 21 the potential for standards that would be at 22 levels that are not represented by products

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 143 1 currently being sold. A little different from a 2 lot of dockets and I think it's one-- 3 MS. DEBUTTS: And we welcome the data 4 that you can provide to us. 5 MR. DELASKI: Well, I'm not a 6 manufacturer, so. 7 MS. DEBUTTS: Or manufacturers for that 8 matter. 9 MR. DELASKI: But it's a challenge that 10 I think the Department has to wrestle with and 11 come up with methodologies for being able to 12 address. And I think some of the constraints that 13 have been applied in other dockets where you say, 14 well, if I can't put my hands on it, I can't model 15 it, need to be thought through in this docket and 16 consider modeling things that you can't 17 necessarily put your hands on physical products 18 today. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Anybody else? Then we're 20 moving on to energy use life-cycle cost analysis. 21 MS. HUSAIN: I'll pass it on to my 22 colleague, Colleen Kantner.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 144 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Oh, pardon me, Ken Rider. 2 I almost dropped you out of the queue. Ken, 3 please speak. 4 MR. RIDER: Oh, thank you very much. 5 This is Ken Rider from the California Energy 6 Commission. I just wanted to point out that when 7 you're doing this price analysis, you really need 8 to be careful (phone drop) for things, such as CRI 9 and other features outside of the product classes 10 that you're proposing that may have an impact on 11 price and then maybe compounding impacts on price 12 when you're trying to develop these price 13 efficiency curves; that you've really got to take 14 more into account than just the efficiency when 15 you're looking at these product prices. 16 MR. BROOKMAN: Ken, I think I know what 17 you're talking about, but I didn't get what you 18 were suggesting. Are you suggesting that-- 19 MR. RIDER: All right. So-- 20 MR. BROOKMAN: Keep going. 21 MR. RIDER: Go ahead. 22 Yeah, if you're looking at there's

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 145 1 multiple characteristics of these lamps, not just 2 efficiency, and so when you're trying to develop 3 the price of the (phone drop) market technology, 4 you need to try to keep things like lamp life and 5 color quality in mind so you're not comparing 6 something that provides not just (phone drop) 7 efficiency, but also improved other aspects that 8 are being included in your incremental (phone 9 drop). If you do do that you need to somehow go 10 backwards and figure out what proportion of the 11 incremental cost (phone drop) rather than other 12 improved qualities of the lamp. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Okay, thank you. 14 Now we're going to hear from Colleen. 15 MS. KANTNER: Thanks for the 16 introduction, Doug. Again, my name is Colleen 17 Kantner and I'm from Lawrence Berkeley National 18 Laboratory. 19 As Aisha just mentioned, up next is the 20 energy use analysis. The purpose of the energy 21 use analysis is to identify how GSLs are operated 22 and to determine the energy savings potential of

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 146 1 more efficient designs. This analysis will be 2 used as an input to both the life-cycle cost and 3 payback period analyses as well as the national 4 impact analysis. 5 The proposed methodology involves taking 6 the input power developed in the engineering 7 analysis and then multiplying that by the annual 8 operating hours to determine energy use. DoE pans 9 to develop a distribution of operating hours for 10 general service lamps. Data sources for this may 11 include DoE's Residential Lighting End-Use 12 Consumption Study, DoE's 2010 U.S. 13 Lighting Market Characterization as well 14 as the Energy Information Administration's 15 Commercial Building and Residential Energy 16 Consumption Surveys and any other source that may 17 come up as well. 18 So we just have one sort of broader item 19 for comment. DoE welcomes comments on the 20 methodology it is considering to determine energy 21 use. In particular, DoE requests comments on its 22 approach to calculating operating hours for the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 147 1 covered lamps. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Robert. 3 MR. NACHTRIEB: Do you plan to 4 accommodate in your methodology the likelihood 5 that people will use their lamps more as they 6 become more efficacious and, therefore, the 7 pressure of their utility bill is reduced? 8 MS. KANTNER: I think DoE typically 9 takes into consideration whether or not there will 10 be any--I think this is usually referred to as 11 rebound. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie Stephens. 13 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens. We 14 probably will also in our analysis have some 15 estimate of whether we think there is any based on 16 our own field data, so you may have other people's 17 opinions on the table as well, if you want to read 18 them. 19 MS. KANTNER: That would be great. 20 Thanks. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Brian, you wish to 22 comment?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 148 1 MR. GERKE: This is Brian Gerke from 2 LBNL. I was just going to agree. The rebound 3 analysis is a typical part of the national impacts 4 analysis. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: In this case we might 6 even have actual data. Keith. 7 MR. COOK: Keith Cook from Philips. One 8 question I've got, though, is since you're saying 9 that a fair percentage of these things are in 10 dimming circuits, are you going to compensate for 11 the amount of time that the light is actually 12 dimmed? 13 MS. KANTNER: Yes, we plan to do that. 14 MR. HOWLEY: Joe Howley. Another factor 15 to consider, and it sounds like it perhaps is 16 located within some of Charlie's data, is the fact 17 that people do tend to seek out these longer life 18 products, not so much for efficiency, but just for 19 the fact that they don't have to replace them so 20 often in sockets that are on for long periods of 21 time and this just has to be--it's a convenience 22 factor where if you have a lot of operating hours,

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 149 1 they get tired of replacing a halogen or 2 incandescent over and over again and they'll go to 3 a CFL or an LED. And I think you'll find, and it 4 sounds like some of these data is confirming this, 5 that a lot of these more efficient products are 6 put into sockets and in applications that have 7 much longer operating hours. So you should also 8 perhaps factor operating lifetime differently with 9 the three different technologies because of this 10 convenience element I'll call it. 11 MS. KANTNER: And DoE, again, would 12 welcome any data that gets to that point. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Keith. 14 MR. COOK: Yeah, following up on Joe's 15 comment, the other thing, though, that's also kind 16 of interesting is the fact that, as we said 17 earlier, CFLs do not dim, so you're going to have 18 to have a different amount of time allowing for 19 dimming on certain technologies versus others. And 20 so, again, it won't be a uniform factor. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. Noah. 22 MR. HOROWITZ: In terms of dimming there

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 150 1 seems to be--Noah Horowitz with NRDC--there seems 2 to be a lot of interest in dimming bulbs and 3 treating those sockets differently. It'd be good 4 for DoE to collect data on what percent of general 5 service lamp sockets are dimmable. I think the 6 number's quite low, and Energy Star might have 7 some of that data as well. Recessed cans are 8 typically on dimmers, but those are reflector 9 lamps that aren't part of this docket. So whatever 10 we decide on dimmers, let's make sure not to apply 11 it to the whole market because we think it's 12 pretty small. Thanks. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Robert. 14 MR. NACHTRIEB: Robert Nachtrieb Lutron 15 Electronics. I feel obliged to comment on the 16 topic of dimming. 17 (Laughter.) 18 MR. NACHTRIEB: I think NEMA has 19 provided DoE in the past with an estimate of the 20 total number of dimmers shipped, incandescent 21 lamps. And as some of you might be aware, NEMA 22 has worked recently on a standard for dimming LED

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 151 1 lamps. So that might be helpful to constrain some 2 of the analysis that we're talking about on 3 dimming. Thank you. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Final 5 comments here? 6 (No response.) 7 MS. KANTNER: So next is the life-cycle 8 cost and payback period analysis. The LCC 9 analysis determines the impact of energy 10 conservation standards on consumers under 11 different efficiency levels. It is from the 12 consumer's perspective and it reflects the total 13 cost of an appliance over its lifetime. 14 Specifically, the LCC is equal to the consumer 15 price plus the discounted sum of annual operating 16 costs. 17 As part of this analysis we also 18 calculate the payback period, which is the amount 19 of time required for energy cost savings to pay 20 back any increased costs of a higher efficiency 21 product. It's also worth noting that in the case 22 of GSLs, DoE is considering utilizing an

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 152 1 annualized LCC analysis to account for the very 2 significant differences in lamp lifetimes. 3 The LCC analysis takes a look at the 4 selection process for GSLs. It's based on the 5 distribution of product efficiencies expected for 6 the compliance year. So some customers may not be 7 affected by a standard and the LCC accounts for 8 that. It aggregates the annual energy consumption 9 over the product's lifetime and it uses 10 probability distributions to characterize a number 11 of parameters. Then a computational simulation is 12 run to determine the percent of customers 13 benefiting from, being burdened by, or not being 14 affected by the standard. 15 So we use the energy use analysis we 16 just discussed a moment ago to get the annual 17 energy consumption and then combine that with 18 other parameters, including lifetime, discount 19 rate, energy price, installation costs, among 20 others, to arrive at a final life-cycle cost. And 21 I'm going to briefly discuss a few of these 22 points.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 153 1 So first up is installation cost. For 2 GSLs, DoE expects that installation cost will be 3 zero for the residential setting and is 4 considering calculating commercial installation 5 costs based on the labor rate and the time to 6 install the lamp. As far as energy prices, DoE is 7 planning to use the latest version of EIA's Annual 8 Energy Outlook to estimate future energy prices. 9 At this point, DoE is assuming that 10 maintenance and repair costs for GSLs will be 11 zero, but many consider the different maintenance 12 costs associated with lighting systems with 13 certain lamp types--basically taking external 14 ballasts into consideration. 15 Another important component is the 16 product lifetime. Lifetime here is defined as the 17 age in hours of operation when a lamp? is retired 18 from service. DoE plans to determine lifetime 19 using published literature. DoE will take into 20 account any disposal costs associated with GSLs. 21 So when a GSL fails, some consumers may recycle 22 the lamp and the cost of recycling is the disposal

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 154 1 cost. DoE will estimate disposal cost based on 2 public sources. 3 Regarding the analysis period, as I 4 mentioned on the previous slide, DoE is 5 considering determining life-cycle cost over the 6 lifetime of the product and then annualizing 7 because of the very different lifetimes of the 8 lamps covered in this rulemaking. 9 DoE will also determine a discount rate 10 to calculate the present value of any cash flows 11 over the analysis period. DoE will derive a 12 discount rate for GSL users, which will be an 13 estimate of the financial cost to the consumer. 14 And this could include both the cost of any debt 15 incurred to purchase the product as well as the 16 opportunity cost, if any equity was used. 17 So now we have an issue for comment 18 slide. Issue 31, DoE welcomes comments on the 19 approach it is considering to conduct the LCC and 20 payback period analyses. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: So lots of inputs listed 22 there. Keith.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 155 1 MR. COOK: Keith Cook from Philips. One 2 quick comment, though, is I'm not sure that you 3 should allow for zero installation cost even 4 though it's not obvious. Personally, I've had two 5 installations where I put in LED lamps and it was 6 not compatible with the dimmer that was already in 7 there and I had to replace the dimmer and that's 8 not cheap. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 10 MR. COOK: Sorry, Rob. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Yeah. Dave. 12 MR. GATTO: A little bit similar. Dave 13 Gatto, Westinghouse. A little similar to Keith. I 14 think that using zero for the install cost on--if 15 pin-based CFLs are determined to be included in 16 the rulemaking, they're not a direct replacement, 17 as Alex said earlier, to incandescents. So it 18 would require the purchase of a fixture. Now, I 19 don't know if that would go in installation cost. 20 The consumer, you know, they might just plug it in 21 if it's a table lamp or have it hard--if it's a 22 hardwire fixture it would be the same install as a

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 156 1 standard incandescent fixture. However, I think 2 that using zero there would lead to some 3 miscalculation later on about what the lifetime 4 cost to the consumer would be for a pin-based 5 socketed fixture. 6 MR. BROOKMAN: Robert. 7 MR. NACHTRIEB: In general I'm in favor 8 of the approach that's taken here to consider the 9 life-cycle costs. The approach that you're taking 10 strikes me as being particularly appropriate for 11 facilities managers who do have to worry about 12 capital, budgets, and taking out a loan for 13 equipment. With the exception of the cost of some 14 LED bulbs, Keith, I don't think that residential 15 consumers have to take out a loan to buy a light 16 bulb. 17 (Laughter.) 18 MR. NACHTRIEB: But I think that it 19 might be useful to determine the relative weight 20 of the purchase price versus the remainder of the 21 life-cycle cost when characterizing the behavior 22 of consumers in this case. Thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 157 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 2 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah Horowitz, NRDC. In 3 terms of product lifetime, there are new flavors 4 of incandescents that have longer life. Some of 5 them are generically referred to as a 2X lamp, 6 which could have 1500 to 25 hours of life, and the 7 next generation is possible as well. I would 8 encourage you to include those in consideration of 9 lifetime and potential paybacks. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew. 11 MR. DELASKI: Go back to the previous 12 slide. I appreciate it. How do you--in assessing 13 disposal costs for a GSL that fails, some could 14 maybe start with the lamp, which I presume you 15 mean you're talking about CFL options. How would 16 you assess that cost for a residential consumer? 17 MS. KANTNER: Well, first you try to 18 determine what percentage of residential consumers 19 actually recycled the lamp and then you would try 20 to find some sort of public source of a typical 21 recycle cost to the consumer. 22 MR. DELASKI: So, I mean, right now Home

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 158 1 Depot, Ikea, other retailers just take them back. 2 You drop them in the bin and they're gone and they 3 recycle them. So is there a cost? 4 MS. KANTNER: So there would not be a 5 cost in that case to the consumer. 6 MR. DELASKI: Okay. And then if you 7 would go back to the prior slide, I think its 8 right what you describe here for installation 9 costs and I agree with the general point made by 10 others that it's appropriate to consider 11 installation costs. Joe commented earlier that, 12 you know, many consumers value the benefit of a 13 long-lived lamp. Noah made the point as well. You 14 know, there is a benefit to a consumer in a long15 lived lamp. It means fewer trips to the store to 16 buy additional lamps. It means, you know, fewer 17 household--particularly if it's hard to reach or 18 hard to replace, fewer replacements, and there's a 19 benefit there. 20 For the commercial sector--with the 21 actual price because you've got to pay someone to 22 do it. I'm not quite sure--I don't have a firm

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 159 1 recommendation right now, but there is a benefit 2 that should be captured somehow, at least 3 qualitatively, I mean, in the analysis. Keith's 4 pointing that in some instances there's a cost. 5 There's benefits and costs to long- lived--to 6 these new products and it needs to be captured 7 somehow or another, and I'm not sure what the--how 8 you would do it in terms of a financial number, 9 but it is a benefit. 10 MS. KANTNER: Right, your point is 11 definitely taken. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional comments here? 13 (No response.) 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 15 MS. KANTNER: Okay. Next I'd like to 16 introduce my colleague Brain Gerke, who's going to 17 be talking about shipments and the national impact 18 analysis for GSLs. 19 MR. GERKE: Thanks, Colleen. I'm Brian 20 Gerke from Lawrence Berkeley National Lab. I'll 21 be going over the details of the approach that 22 DoE's considering for the shipments and national

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 160 1 impact analyses. 2 So, the purpose of the shipments 3 analysis is to project future shipments of the 4 covered products by product class and also by 5 efficiency level as a prelude to computing the 6 national impacts of a potential energy efficiency 7 standard. We are proposing to use the typical 8 general methodology for this shipments analysis 9 that is used in other rulemakings. That is, 10 projecting shipments over a 30-year period, 11 beginning on the expected compliance date of the 12 standard, and to consider various price trend 13 analyses and investigate various methods for 14 forecasting the future price of the products based 15 on guidance that's been given for all DoE 16 rulemakings. 17 The more detailed approach for this 18 particular rulemaking is that we'll be using an 19 economic model to project the shipments in the 20 standards case compared to the base case. In 21 particular, for those who are familiar with the 22 approach we took in the preliminary analysis of

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 161 1 the GSFL/IRL rulemaking, it will be--what we are 2 considering at the moment is something similar to 3 that in which we look at the decisions that are 4 made by consumers who are choosing new and 5 replacement lamps. This is based on observed and 6 projected technology price trends and adoption 7 rates and will account for the shift to LED 8 technology that is expected to occur even in the 9 absence of standards as consumers naturally move 10 to that technology over time. 11 The inputs that go into the shipments 12 analysis are, as for the LCC, the energy price 13 forecasts from the Annual Energy Outlook. Also 14 the forecast of the growth of the building stock 15 from AEO. The lamp lifetimes coming from the 16 analyses upstream of this one, mainly the 17 engineering analysis. The lamp prices and 18 operating and maintenance costs also coming from 19 the LCC and upstream analyses from that. The 20 hours of use distribution coming from the LCC; 21 actually from the energy use analysis. 22 Historical shipments data and price

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 162 1 trends, those that are available from the Census 2 Bureau and anything that we get from stakeholder 3 input or published literature. 4 And, of course, we are very, very open 5 to whatever data is available from stakeholders on 6 that front. And will also include forecasts of 7 lighting controls adoption over the period of the 8 standard, in particular, to understand, for 9 example, what fraction of dimmers are going to be 10 out on the market. 11 So we have general issues for comment on 12 the various approaches being taken to the 13 shipments analysis. We welcome comment on the 14 approach we take to price forecasting. We've 15 already had some of those, but we'd be happy to 16 hear more. 17 We, of course, seek information on 18 historical shipments of GSLs for each of the 19 product classes and technology types covered under 20 this rulemaking as well as any industry trend data 21 on the relative growth in each of the different 22 areas.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 163 1 And we request general comments on the 2 impact of energy conservation standards on the 3 shipments of GSLs and any input on other federal 4 programs that currently exist in this area. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Robert. 6 MR. NACHTRIEB: Robert Nachtrieb, Lutron 7 Electronics. Your model forecasts shipments based 8 on forecast prices and characteristics of the 9 lamps. Do you calibrate your model against 10 historical data and do you plan to show the 11 agreement between historical data of shipments and 12 your model? 13 MR. GERKE: Yes, in answer to both 14 questions. 15 MR. NACHTRIEB: For the record, you plan 16 to show the agreement between your model and 17 historical shipment data. 18 MR. GERKE: Yes. 19 MR. NACHTRIEB: Excellent. And will you 20 share the calibration coefficients as well? 21 MR. GERKE: That is typically done in 22 the spreadsheet analysis that's made available

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 164 1 with this. 2 MR. NACHTRIEB: Excellent, thank you. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Yes, Joe? 4 MR. HOWLEY: Just a comment that it kind 5 of illustrates that Issue 33 illustrates the 6 difficulty with starting a rulemaking so soon 7 after the previous rule goes into effect. It 8 finally just went into effect January 1, 2014, and 9 here we're discussing a new rulemaking and we 10 really don't have good, accurate data on exactly 11 what the effects are of this past rulemaking and 12 probably won't for another year, so we're still in 13 the transitional phase. 14 And we have some information, but 15 clearly not what the full effects of this 16 rulemaking, and it's difficult to have two 17 rulemakings so close together. Separation of 18 rulemaking perhaps, in the future years, would 19 make this type of analysis a lot easier. Right 20 now all we can do is sort of estimate/guess and 21 it's difficult to do with rulemaking based on 22 estimates and guesses. Thank you.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 165 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Andrew. 2 MR. DELASKI: Well, in DoE's defense, as 3 Joe well knows-- 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Are you turned on? 5 MR. DELASKI: --DoE is doing this 6 rulemaking because the law says they have to right 7 now. And it's what was included in EISA and it 8 said they have to start it now, so the timing of 9 this rulemaking is not a discretionary decision 10 for DoE. 11 I also would point out that although the 12 60 watt, as Joe knows, the 60 watt standard took 13 effect as of January 1st, it's been phased in over 14 three years. And in California, which I think is, 15 I think, the sixth biggest economy in the world, 16 it took effect one year earlier, so we do have-- 17 it's incomplete, I will contend with that. I will 18 give you that, but we still do have a pretty good 19 sense --we have some sense of how the market's 20 reacting. 21 And, fortunately, California, they go a 22 year in advance and that was a good thing in terms

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 166 1 of helping us to do a transition. And the staging 2 is a good thing to do a transition that has 3 actually worked. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Keith. 5 MR. COOK: Keith Cook with Philips. The 6 other complicating factor, though, in this 7 particular rulemaking is the fact that the prices 8 are dropping so dramatically on the LEDs that the 9 market adoption is ramping up much faster than 10 what history would show it right now, too. And so 11 to be able to project that is going to be also 12 very difficult. 13 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 14 MR. STEPHENS: Yeah, I would concur with 15 what Keith just said. I think what we really may 16 be looking at here, more than in other 17 rulemakings, perhaps, is a scenario analysis where 18 were really just looking at alternative scenarios 19 and see how closely they align when it comes to 20 the ultimate impact of life-cycle costs and 21 rationality of the different ways this might play 22 out.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 167 1 One of the things we're going to try to 2 do to help, though it will be of limited help 3 because of what we just agreed on, that things are 4 shifting quickly, is that we are going to try to 5 develop a way to provide DoE quarterly data on 6 sales at SKU by SKU for all of the retail channels 7 where most of the lighting volume will likely go. 8 And if we can do it, well also provide pricing 9 for all of that in an aggregated way to DoE. 10 And we'll do that quarter by quarter 11 until DoE makes its decisions. I don't know 12 whether we'll see the trends there or not, but we 13 need the data anyway, so we'll provide it in 14 aggregated fashion, quarter by quarter, until DoE 15 tells us they don't need it anymore. 16 MR. GERKE: Thanks, that will be 17 helpful. We also, in following up to that 18 comment, we'd welcome any input on what issues we 19 should consider in the scenarios we look at in the 20 shipments analysis. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Additional comments on 22 these three? Yes, Taylor?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 168 1 MS. JANTZ-SELL: Taylor Jantz-Sell at 2 EPA. Just in terms of other federal programs for 3 efficiency, we've had three years of Energy Star 4 levels for LED lamps and-- 5 REPORTER: Can you pull closer to the 6 microphone, please? 7 MS. JANTZ-SELL: And--sorry--we've had 8 three years of voluntary standards for LED lamps 9 and many more years, over a decade of CFL 10 standards, and we've released a new specification 11 for those lamps that goes into effect September 12 30th of this year, which have raised the bar in 13 terms of efficiency for medium screw base CFLs. 14 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay, take a quick peek 15 at 54 again. Price forecasting, historical 16 shipments, and shipments, additional comments on 17 those three? 18 (No response.) 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Nothing additional. Okay. 20 MR. GERKE: Okay. Moving on to the 21 National Impacts Analysis. The purpose of the 22 National Impacts Analysis is to determine the

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 169 1 projected national energy savings and consumer 2 national net present value associated with 3 potential energy conservation standards over the 4 same 30-year period as considered in the shipments 5 analysis. The general methodology is to develop 6 an annual time series of national energy and 7 economic impacts. We do that by utilizing the 8 shipments models to estimate both the shipments 9 and the stock in each year of the analysis period, 10 use the outputs of the LCC to develop the total 11 installing cost and energies per unit in any year, 12 and then aggregate that across the shipments to 13 determine the total energy use in all years and 14 cost in all years of the analysis period, and then 15 report the national energy savings. 16 So you do that analysis for both the 17 base case and each of the proposed standard cases 18 and then report the national energy savings from 19 each of the candidate standards in terms of the 20 site energy savings, the primary energy savings, 21 and the full-fuel-cycle energy savings, where the 22 full-fuel-cycle energy savings include savings

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 170 1 from, for example, not extracting new fossil fuels 2 from the ground to produce the power that is 3 saved. We also report the change in the national 4 consumer net present value in constant year 5 dollars, using standardized 3 percent and 7 6 percent discount rates over the 30-year analysis 7 period. 8 The inputs in the National Impacts 9 Analysis are, of course, the lamp shipments from 10 the shipments analysis; again, the energy price 11 forecast from AEO; and, again, the outputs of the 12 life-cycle cost analysis and energy use analysis 13 for the lamp price and the O&M costs and for the 14 annual lamp energy use; the current rate of 15 lighting control adoptions and forecasts from 16 published literature and conversion factors for 17 site to source and site to full-fuel-cycle energy 18 consumption from NEMS. 19 So we welcome comments generally on the 20 analysis, the spreadsheet model we plan to use to 21 estimate the energy savings and on the inputs, and 22 also we generally welcome comments on this overall

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 171 1 methodology. 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Robert. 3 MR. NACHTRIEB: Robert Nachtrieb from 4 Lutron. Brian, I'm sorry. I think I missed it 5 earlier, but I wanted to confirm. You said that 6 one of the inputs that you're going to consider is 7 construction, which will increase the number of 8 sockets. Do you also intend to consider 9 demolition, which will decrease the number of 10 sockets, question number one. 11 Question number two, is your model 12 focused on the total number of sockets and, 13 therefore, shipments have to fill existing sockets 14 and, therefore, total shipments are constrained by 15 the rate which sockets become empty because of the 16 failure of existing lamps? Or is this a simple 17 projection of sales for each lamp type? 18 MR. GERKE: The approach we're 19 considering at the moment would involve filling 20 sockets, although based on some of the comments 21 today, looking at in-house inventory seems to be 22 worth considering as well within that analysis.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 172 1 Although if inventories in homes remain constant, 2 it's the same thing. 3 MR. BROOKMAN: Go ahead, Robert, follow 4 on. 5 MR. NACHTRIEB: As a follow-up, I would 6 encourage you not to agonize over inventory in 7 homes if it's an inventory of incandescents 8 because consumers are concerned about them not 9 becoming available. Once they go into service, 10 they don't last that long, so they'll practically 11 be gone in a very short time. And I would be 12 surprised if consumers stockpile an inventory of 13 very expensive new technology lamps. 14 So my suggestion is, first of all, 15 you're doing it the right way focusing on the 16 sockets. And second of all, don't agonize over 17 the inventory. Okay? 18 MR. GERKE: Thank you. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. Additional 20 comments on the NIA model? And any NES and NPV 21 calculations? 22 (No response.)

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 173 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 2 MR. GERKE: All right, I'm now handing 3 this over, moving on to the NOPR analyses, which-- 4 Aisha, are you reading that? Handing it back to 5 Aisha Husain. 6 MS. HUSAIN: Okay, this is Aisha from 7 Navigant. Now, I'll just briefly discuss--so the 8 other analyses that DoE plans to conduct in the 9 NOPR stage of the rulemaking. And we'll begin 10 with the Manufacturer Impact Analysis. 11 The purpose of the Manufacturer Impact 12 Analysis, or MIA, is to assess the impacts of 13 standards on manufacturers,; to identify and 14 estimate impacts on manufacturer subgroups that 15 may be more severely affected than the industry as 16 a whole,; and to examine the direct employment 17 impacts, manufacturing capacity, and regulatory 18 impact on the industry. 19 DoE plans to use the Government 20 Regulatory Impact Model, or GRIM, to analyze 21 industry cash flow and industry net present value. 22 DoE also plans to obtain feedback from

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 174 1 manufacturers through interviews. 2 So, just to lay it out a bit, DoE plans 3 to conduct the MIA in three phases. In Phase 1 4 DoE will create an industry profile to conduct 5 this first phase in the preliminary analysis and 6 it will be based on publicly available financial 7 information and preliminary manufacturer 8 interviews. In Phase 2, DoE plans to prepare an 9 industry cash flow model and an interview 10 questionnaire. In Phase 3, DoE plans to interview 11 manufacturers and assess the impacts of standards, 12 both quantitatively and qualitatively. 13 The second two phases of the MIA will be 14 conducted in the NOPR phase. So, Issue 37, DoE is 15 requesting comments on manufacturer sub-groups, 16 any that should be considered by DoE. And Issue 38 17 to request feedback on small businesses that could 18 be impacted by potential standards. 19 MR. BROOKMAN: No comment here. 20 MS. HUSAIN: All right. So I'll briefly 21 go through some of the other NOPR analyses that 22 will be conducted. In the Life-Cycle Subgroup

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 175 1 Analysis DoE analyzes life-cycle cost impacts on 2 various national consumer subgroups that might be 3 adversely impacted due to potential standards. 4 In the Utility Impact Analysis DoE 5 determines the impact on the general capacity of 6 utilities as a result of potential standards. 7 The Employment Impact Analysis covers 8 indirect employment impacts resulting from, say, 9 shifts in expenditures or changes in income due to 10 potential standards. So I'd note this is 11 different from the Employment Impact Analysis 12 conducted in the MIA, which assesses direct 13 employment. 14 In the Emissions Analysis DoE will 15 estimate reduction in power sector emissions for 16 carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, 17 and mercury due to potential standards. DoE also 18 assesses the monetary benefits of reduction of 19 carbon dioxide and nitrogen oxide due to potential 20 standards. 21 And in the Regulatory Impact Analysis 22 DoE looks at impacts of non-regulatory

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 176 1 alternatives that could improve the energy 2 efficiency or reduce energy consumption of 3 products covered in this rulemaking. 4 So the next few slides are basically 5 issues for comment on each of these analyses. I 6 can go one by one. 7 MR. BROOKMAN: I think just leaving them 8 up there will be sufficient. 9 MS. HUSAIN: Okay. 10 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 11 MR. STEPHENS: Charlie Stephens, NEEA. I 12 know I'm going to get this question from some of 13 my funders, but in the Utility Impact Analysis are 14 you able to take into account the impact on 15 generation capacity from moving from products that 16 have power factor of 1 to products that have a 17 power factor of something on the order of half 18 that? 19 MS. HUSAIN: I'm going to leave it to my 20 colleagues over there. 21 MR. GERKE: We can certainly look into 22 that possibility. This product certainly has that

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 177 1 strong impact, but I'm not sure I can answer your 2 question directly right now. 3 MR. STEPHENS: Okay, but-- 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you. 5 MR. STEPHENS: Yeah, my funders are 6 going to be concerned about that to some extent if 7 there's really a massive shift toward, you know, 8 low power factor. 9 MR. GERKE: Yeah. We'll take that under 10 consideration certainly. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Keith. 12 MR. COOK: Keith Cook, Philips. When 13 you do that analysis, though, you can't look at it 14 as just a power factor change because you have to 15 look at the effect of the actual usage of the 16 energy itself. And so if you're going, let's say, 17 from 100 watt lamp down to a 20 watt lamp, even 18 though the power factor may also go from 1 down to 19 .5, the imaginary power is still half of what the 20 original was, so. 21 MR. BROOKMAN: Charlie. 22 MR. STEPHENS: Yeah, Charlie. We agree

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 178 1 with that, but my folks are interested in 2 calculating the actual generation capacity saved, 3 not just the energy saved. 4 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry. 5 MR. STEPHENS: So we don't care what it 6 is exactly, but we want to be able to understand 7 what the real generation capacity impacts are, not 8 just, you know, generation. 9 MR. BROOKMAN: Terry. 10 MR. McGOWAN: Terry McGowan, ALA. This 11 is a confusing issue for luminaire manufacturers 12 who are concerned about meeting requirements for 13 power factor, but we don't understand in the 14 industry just what impact that has on residential 15 products. What effect does residential products 16 have upon system power factor and generation power 17 factor is very unclear to us and we would 18 appreciate some information on this, whether it be 19 reports or studies or whatever it is. Because it 20 isn't clear that that low power factor device 21 drawing 25 watts is really having much of an 22 impact at the generating plant.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 179 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Noah. 2 MR. HOROWITZ: This is a more broad 3 question. Noah with NRDC. The CFL standards that 4 exist via prior statute not only deal with the 5 efficiency of the product, but also some of the 6 performance characteristics. My question to DoE, 7 is there an openness to include other metrics 8 besides efficiency for the non-CFL bulbs or lamps 9 that might be covered? So consideration of power 10 factor or some stress test or other things where 11 there might be interest by a broad set of 12 stakeholders. 13 MS. DEBUTTS: Well, we definitely can 14 consider it. We're going to have to consult with 15 the legal counsel on the constraints that we have 16 in analyzing this. But we hear your comments and 17 we'll look into it. 18 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Lucy. So 19 additional comments here? You can see all of 20 these issues. Any additional comments on all of 21 these different analyses, which are considerably 22 downstream?

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 180 1 (No response.) 2 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. 3 MS. HUSAIN: The second slide is just on 4 the monetizing and the regulatory impact analyses. 5 MR. BROOKMAN: Okay. So then, as we 6 promised you this morning, first thing, now is 7 another opportunity for any additional comments, 8 any other issues that you wish to raise at this 9 point, things that have not been covered 10 sufficiently, anything you wish to bring to the 11 fore as we move towards closer. Yes, Noah. 12 MR. HOROWITZ: Noah with NRDC. I want 13 to go back to Alex's initial comment requesting a 14 potential extension of a couple of weeks from the 15 current deadline of January 23rd. I'm wondering 16 if DoE can provide that today or when might we be 17 expecting it? Thanks. 18 MS. DEBUTTS: We hear the request. I 19 will have to talk to my superiors to see what they 20 would like to do, but we definitely respond to 21 that. If we issue it, you're going to see the 22 notice soon.

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 181 1 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Lucy. Other 2 comments here at the end of the day? Nothing to-- 3 yes, Andrew. 4 MR. DELASKI: If you could--the 5 Department, I know, has the mechanisms for just 6 using it's e-mail distribution list, if you could 7 use that instead of waiting for a Federal Register 8 publication, that would help us. 9 MS. DEBUTTS: Definitely. We'll send 10 out the notice if it's signed--as it's signed into 11 effect. 12 MR. BROOKMAN: Thank you, Lucy. Okay. 13 Well, then for my part, I'll say thank you. A 14 very, very productive meeting, very efficient. 15 Lots of good content came forward in the framework 16 stage. And I'll turn it back to Lucy deButts for 17 closing remarks. 18 MS. DEBUTTS: So I'll address everyone 19 from here. Hopefully, it's okay. Thank you all 20 for coming. We appreciate the input. Thus far 21 it's been a pretty interesting conversation and, 22 hopefully, we can get the comments, written

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 182 1 comments, from the stakeholders, too, discussing 2 the issues that were raised. 3 And any additional information, any 4 additional data is welcome. We will assess the 5 data as it becomes available. If the six months 6 from now the date is going to be available, it's 7 going to be assessed again or evaluated again. 8 So thanks, everyone. And I'm glad to 9 see everyone here and, hopefully, hear from all of 10 you soon. 11 MR. BROOKMAN: Safe travels. 12 (Whereupon, at 12:22 p.m., the Public 13 Meeting on Energy Conservation 14 Standards Framework - General Service 15 Lamps was adjourned.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 1

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 $ $1.50 129:21 $3.00 43:18 $5 129:22 1 1 17:12 25:1,3,15 42:21 44:2 46:10 53:9 57:8 74:11 79:11 118:16 164:8 174:3 176:16 177:18 10 68:15 80:2,11 88:13 93:21 114:14 10,000 86:1 10:30 9:12 10:35 101:8,12 10:50 101:13 102:3,5 100 82:7 106:4 113:22 119:11 177:17 1000 1:9 100s 25:8 102 4:11,12 11 15:2,11 88:15 93:21 12 43:18 99:14 101:2 12:22 182:12 12:30 101:10 125 4:13 13 4:4 99:17 101:2 14 1:11 5:8 99:20 101:2 1400 92:4 144 4:14 148 4:15 15 4:5 33:7 124:12 150 72:3,6 73:9 1500 157:6 156 4:16 16 59:2 104:6 109:19 17104:15 173 4:17,18 18 113:13 181 4:19 19 114:17 1st17:6 27:11 28:6 165:13 2 2 30:16 42:16 53:14 59:3,6 64:18,21 66:2 71:12 72:8 80:2,8 89:19 104:20 174:8 20 89:19 116:21 120:20 177:17 200 72:6 2001 56:21 2005 24:6 2007 142:18 2010 146:12 2012 14:15 40:12 2013 28:13 40:11 2014 1:11 5:8 13:1 28:18 45:1 164:8 2015 29:1 2016 29:2

2017 27:11 2019 29:5 2020 6:1 28:6 53:12,19 63:7 83:14 85:18 86:3 21 117:2 22 124:6 2200 91:21 23 124:14 23rd 13:1 15:22 16:11 180:15 24 124:16 25 4:5 107:9,13 124:18 157:6 178:21 25--well109:4 2600 46:6 72:1,6 2650 72:2 274:6 128:14 142:7 28 142:7 29 131:12 142:7 2X157:5 3 3 12:9 56:18 59:6 65:20 66:2,4 170:5 174:10 30th 168:12 30-year160:10 169:4 170:6 31 154:18 315 41:2 33 164:5 35 45:8

37174:14 38 4:7 174:16 4 4 12:9 56:19 59:6 66:3,22 68:5 69:14 40 113:20 40s 25:3 430.2 68:15 45 6:1 27:22 28:4,5 30:17,22 31:2,9,20 32:4,5,6,18,21 33:1,5,9 34:2,6,8,16,20 35:2,5,7,9,12,16 ,21 36:12,14 37:14,19 38:1,5,7 53:21 63:8,11,13,15 64:2,4 5 5 4:2 70:15 72:13 76:6 82:15 177:19 50 84:9 54 168:15 6 6 4:3 70:16 72:13 60 25:11,19 43:6,20 44:1 165:12 600 44:10 60s 25:3 7

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 2

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 770:18 71:7,21 72:13 170:5 72 119:10 73 4:8 75 25:7 8 8 4:3 81:18 82:13 80 4:9,10 134:13 800 44:11 9 9 30:16 88:6 93:21 9:04 1:12 5:2 9th 27:8 28:13 A a.m 1:12 5:2 ability34:17 73:10 79:7 116:12 able 16:12 47:17 91:17 92:7,10 106:22 137:7 139:13,18 142:20 143:11 166:11 176:14 178:6 absence 161:9 accept94:11 accepted 25:18 accepts 82:22 access 12:13,20 accessible10:17 12:16 accessing 12:17 accommodate 75:11 94:21 147:4

accomplish 74:21 accomplished 20:4 according 109:7 accordingly 55:3 account122:18 144:14 152:1 153:20 161:7 176:14 accounts 152:7 accurate 62:7 125:8 164:10 183:7 ACEEE 119:22 achieve 32:18 33:3 34:8,21 81:11 117:21 achieved 63:13 acknowledging 106:15 across 30:22 31:19 35:17,21 36:14 88:17 116:13,16 119:11 169:12 Act14:14 40:21 action 40:17 actively 35:19 activity 41:3 actual136:4 142:3 148:6 158:21 177:15 178:2 actually12:2,6,12 27:9 29:12 63:17 64:2,5,15 71:17 89:8,10 148:11 157:19 161:21 166:3 add30:21 63:4,21

74:19 78:10 133:11 adding58:9,18 120:1 addition 11:21 51:3 58:4 91:1 additional9:21 25:9 26:3 38:14 43:13,21 44:8 45:12 57:19 58:5,6,9 64:17 66:4,5 69:1,7,19 70:17 71:5 72:20 74:6,12 80:15 93:11,20 98:6 99:16,22 101:3 109:16 114:6 127:5,14 132:13,19 158:16 159:12 167:21 168:16,19 172:19 179:19,20 180:7 182:3,4 Additionally 40:20 address 22:22 23:20 64:21 95:9 143:12 181:18 addressed 23:5 addressing 94:3 adequate 59:3 adjourned 182:15 Administration's 146:14 administrative 13:15 adoption 73:16 74:12 129:2 161:6 162:7 166:9 adoptions 170:15 advance 165:22 advantage 50:21 75:5 76:12 78:4 119:2 adverse 81:15,17 adversely175:3 Advisory6:10 advocacy16:8 120:2 advocates 6:5 13:16 33:18 AEO 161:15 170:11 Affairs 7:1 affect60:13 88:3 93:13 affected 152:7,14 173:15 affecting 87:11 93:12 affiliation 6:20 against163:9 age 153:17 agency2:12 7:15 34:6 agenda4:3 8:19,22 9:2 10:1 24:2 aggregate 169:12 aggregated 167:9,14 aggregates 152:8 ago 17:21 18:2

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 3

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 152:16 agonize172:6,16 agreed 35:11 167:3 agreeing 36:8,11 agreement 163:11,16 ahead 47:7 55:11 144:21 172:3 aiming 97:10 air-conditioner 108:19 air-conditioners 107:4 airtime 10:9 Aisha3:5 4:12,13,18 8:12 102:10,11 145:19 173:4,5,6 a--it's 118:21 ALA133:18 178:10 Alex2:7 4:4 6:22 13:8,12 15:16,20 19:12 20:9 30:12,13 32:1 46:20,21 47:5,13,16 48:12 49:1 52:14,15 59:4,5 66:1 70:22 71:1 74:14,15 82:1,2 83:22 84:1 94:4 100:1,2 104:18,19 155:17 Alex's 16:17 180:13 algorithm 85:5 Ali3:6 8:8 31:6 57:11 106:7,8 112:10 125:14,19 130:19 137:1 138:13 140:18,19 align 90:7 166:19 A-line 87:21 Allen 1:14 183:2,15 Alliance 2:19 91:15 allow123:8 155:3 allowing149:18 alluded 14:6 alone 26:16 already10:12 14:6 27:4 66:1 68:7,13 75:1 76:14 97:1 98:2 128:18 155:6 162:15 alternative 35:16 36:15 85:14 166:18 alternatives 54:8 113:21 176:1 altogether 136:9 am 30:14 71:4 78:15 82:3 136:1,6 183:8 Amann 2:19 119:22 amazing18:3 ambiguities 95:8 ambiguity38:13 amending 73:22 amendment14:19 16:18 27:19 73:16 amendments 27:5 40:8 America 2:8 American 2:14,19 7:22 26:7 among152:19 amount45:16 79:18 122:9 148:11 149:18 151:18 amplify84:2 analyses 9:19 28:16 102:18 126:19 129:7 146:3 154:20 160:1,13 161:16,19 173:3,8 174:21 176:5 179:21 180:4 analysis 4:10,11,13,14,1 5,16,17 9:11,13,14,15,1 8 28:17 30:1,7 35:4,8 36:1 62:7 63:9,16 80:21 81:4 82:20 83:3 86:14,18 87:6 97:21 99:11 102:13,14,19,21 103:2,8 105:2,11,15 109:14 114:10,16 116:17 123:11 124:18,19 125:6,10 127:18 132:2 133:8 136:6,12,15,17 139:19

140:1,4,6,12 143:20 144:7 145:20,21 146:1,4,7 147:14 148:3,4 151:2,8,9,17 152:1,3,15 154:3,11 159:3,18 160:3,8,22 161:12,17,21 162:13 163:22 164:19 166:17 167:20 168:21,22 169:5,9,14,16 170:6,9,10,12,2 0 171:22 173:10,12 174:5 175:1,4,7,11,14, 21 176:13 177:13 analytical 11:14 62:3 103:21 analyze12:2 23:8,12 103:18 108:12 136:9 173:20 analyzed86:7 103:14 118:5 124:1 analyzes 175:1 analyzing84:19 90:2 179:16 and/or25:21 59:8 68:8 83:18 132:20 Andrew2:12 4:5 14:2 15:17 24:18,22 29:19 36:6 38:12 43:2 48:9,11 50:3,4

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 4

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 55:4,11 59:10 60:3 63:16 72:13 94:6 108:13 126:6 138:4,6 141:6 142:11 157:10 165:1 181:3 And--sorry-- we've 168:7 anecdote 46:14 annual73:9 92:2 146:7 151:15 152:8,16 153:7 161:13 169:6 170:14 annualized 152:1 annualizing154:6 a--no 48:7 answer32:12 47:17 48:2,19 49:5,15 62:8,11 80:3 83:19 91:17 109:22 121:22 129:5 163:13 177:1 answered 94:16 answers 48:14 anticipated31:18 anybody9:4,20 92:17 97:12 143:19 any--I 147:10 anymore 48:8 117:13 167:15 anyone 12:16 anything 93:22 98:6 141:19 162:2 180:10 anyway167:13 apparent14:13 19:22 appeal61:4 appear75:4 appearances 19:22 appears 14:15 appliance 2:12 5:15 48:11 50:4 151:13 applicability 99:18 applicable 73:15 88:17 application 39:13 69:22 117:13 applications 39:9,21 42:1,2,6,14 65:18 66:17 67:2 68:4 69:8,11,20 70:11 117:11 149:6 applied 92:3 136:20 143:13 applies 126:18 apply41:14 42:8 99:21 128:2 135:13 150:10 applying 126:20 appreciate 15:11 123:18 157:12 178:18 181:20 approach 19:16 21:6 22:17 23:15 83:11 110:7 113:14 117:1,17,18,22 118:3,4,6 125:15,22

126:3,9,22 127:5 129:8 135:8 146:22 154:19 156:8,9 159:21 160:17,22 162:14 171:18 approaches 11:15 162:12 appropriate 42:20 46:1,2 54:11,16 55:20 56:8 67:8 156:10 158:10 appropriated 14:16 40:22 appropriations 14:14 19:21 40:21 approval16:9 area93:14 163:4 areas 162:22 aren't23:21 139:10 150:9 are--of 105:9 are--well96:12 array130:16 arrive 152:20 arrived 15:10 ASAP 60:4 94:7 A-shapes 111:6 aspects 14:17 41:1 145:7 ASRAC 2:3 6:10 assess 157:16 173:12 174:11 182:4 assessed 182:7 assesses 175:12,18

assessing 157:12 assessment 4:9 9:10 40:16 80:20 81:1 86:22 87:4 110:2 125:2 assist12:19 assistance 15:8 associated 116:11 125:13 140:22 153:12,20 169:2 Association 2:7,14,16 7:2 8:1 26:7 assume 80:11 83:13 118:6 assumed 65:5 112:16 assuming 84:6 153:9 assumption 105:12 130:7,11 assumptions 25:18 assure 37:13 75:15 attempted 78:13 attempting 85:11 attention 26:8,16 51:2 attractive 61:3 authority54:22 69:6 authorized 24:9 57:10 58:1,4 authorizes 24:7 availability40:13

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 5

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 66:19 67:1 68:3 81:16 85:21 114:1 131:14 available 10:8 23:22 31:8 33:2 43:7,8 46:6 81:9 114:15 128:12,13 131:7,11 137:20 138:3 139:17 140:3 162:1,5 163:22 172:9 174:6 182:5,6 Avenue 1:9 average 30:20 31:9,19 32:4,5,6,18 33:9 34:3,15 35:5 36:1 63:14 75:17 averaged 33:7 63:11 avoid 26:14 35:18 119:9 aware25:12 29:7 98:5 101:19 129:16 150:21 Awareness 2:12 48:12 50:5 away45:10 83:17 120:9 awfully17:2 B background 15:9 backsliding97:3 backstop 5:22 14:7 23:7,8,10,13 29:22 31:16 35:3,6 36:9,11,13,15 37:1,5 53:16 backwards 44:1 145:10 badge 101:14,17 ballast65:4,5 75:6,12 87:16 88:9 89:6 90:15 92:21 93:5 95:3,5,6 99:2 104:12 109:17 ballasted 41:12 75:4 87:17 88:11 90:13,21 91:9,10,12 92:22 93:16 104:3 ballasts 90:18 153:14 bar168:12 bare 87:19 89:6 91:1,2,6,7 104:4,13 109:18 110:1,5,11,22 111:9,12 112:1,20 base 39:21 96:3 106:3 141:17 160:20 168:13 169:17 based 16:1 21:7,9,12 22:13,18 27:18 40:10 42:18 64:22 65:4 80:9 81:5 87:14 88:5 92:4 96:14 103:7,22 104:1 105:15 106:10,20 109:10 116:10 118:13 120:5 128:3,9 130:15

136:12,17 147:15 152:4 153:5 154:1 160:14 161:5 163:7 164:21 171:20 174:6 baseline 25:14 30:2 38:4 103:4,6,10 113:4,5,14,19 114:3,8,13,14 115:4,7,9,18 116:4,9 120:22 121:2,9,13,16 123:13 baselines 114:6 basement 108:20,21 basic 111:16 basically 35:13 105:14 136:17 176:4 Batteries 133:17 battery133:16 become 54:18 131:20 147:6 171:15 becomes 182:5 becoming 108:17 172:9 begin 173:9 beginning 28:6 160:11 behalf 7:18 13:12 26:11 behavior156:21 behind 13:20 19:13 be--it's 148:21

believe 24:4 34:4 44:18 46:3 49:11,14 84:7 86:1 105:6 believes 14:22 69:19 113:6 benefit 158:12,14,19 159:1,9 benefiting 152:13 benefits 119:15,16 159:5 175:18 be--Noah 150:1 Berkeley3:2 4:14,15,16,17 8:5,7 145:17 159:20 besides 179:8 best20:15,16,19 29:18 37:9 60:2 75:11 77:19 100:14 118:4,6 129:5 better 15:12 16:19,22 18:8 31:1,21 34:9 35:14 49:5 75:18 82:12 89:16 be--what161:1 beyond 72:6 bigger141:19 biggest165:15 bill19:20,22 147:7 bin 158:2 bit16:3 102:16 103:16 132:22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 6

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 155:12 174:2 blind 37:14 Blue 128:2,11 131:5,9,15 132:1 135:4 136:1,3,7,10,14, 20 137:2,10 138:8,9,10 139:1 141:8,16 Boesenberg 2:7 4:4 6:22 13:9,10,12 14:12 30:13 31:10,14 46:21 47:16,17 48:1,7 49:1,2 52:15 59:5 66:1 71:1 74:14,15 82:1,2 84:1 100:1,2,3 104:18,19 Book 128:3,11 132:1 136:3,7,10,14,2 0 138:8,10 141:8 Bookman 6:15,17 Books 131:6,10,15 135:4 136:1 137:3,11 139:1 141:16 Book--what138:9 borders 26:18 bought43:11 86:4 117:10 129:19 box12:9 59:3 64:18 68:5 108:20,21 109:19 boxes 12:5,6 55:19 boy125:21 Brain 159:16 brand50:15 brands 50:9 break4:11 9:11 101:6,12 102:6 Brian 3:3 4:16,17 8:6 30:6 86:10,11 129:4 147:21 148:1 159:19 171:4 brief 8:19 9:5 briefly152:21 173:7 174:20 bright113:20 118:20 brighter 79:16 113:19 bring12:21 21:3 55:5 59:1 114:20 180:10 broad 179:2,11 broader132:22 146:18 broken 104:11 Brookman 2:2 5:3 6:13 8:16 10:3 13:6 15:16 16:14 24:18,20 26:3,21 29:16 30:12 31:22 32:8 33:13,16,21 34:22 36:3,6 38:10,18 42:19 44:3,6,15 45:4,11 46:20 47:5,7,13,22 48:6,9 49:9,16,22 50:2 51:17 52:14,19 53:5 54:4 55:4,7,11,22

56:4,10 58:14,20 59:1,10 63:3,19 64:17 65:7,10,22 66:7 67:5,16,20 68:1,17 69:1,4 70:22 71:19 72:12 73:5,13 74:14 78:18 79:9 80:15,18 82:1 83:5,22 85:15 86:10,16,21 87:2 88:18 90:10 91:13 92:18 93:9,20 94:5 95:11,15 96:7,10,18,22 97:14,16 98:6,9 100:1,12 101:2,5,8 102:7 104:18 106:7,18 108:13 109:15 110:19 111:3 112:15 113:2,15 114:4,6,19 115:21 116:5 117:5,15 118:8 119:5,21 120:15 122:5,20 123:17 124:8,10,20 125:19 126:6 127:10,14 128:16 129:14 130:12 132:3,7,14 133:9 134:4,20 135:2 137:13 138:4,13,15 139:5 141:5,14,22 142:7,11 143:19 144:1,16,20 145:13

147:2,12,21 148:5 149:13,21 150:13 151:4 154:21 155:9,11 156:6 157:1,10 159:12,14 163:5 164:3 165:1,4 166:4,13 167:21 168:14,19 171:2 172:3,19 173:1 174:19 176:7,10 177:4,11,21 178:4,9 179:1,18 180:2,5 181:1,12 182:11 brought29:20 30:14 budgets 156:12 build 19:10 building 5:9 85:19 101:18 146:15 161:14 bulb 18:12 25:20 34:7,21 39:13 43:7,14,19,21,2 2 44:1,4,10 45:6,9 79:17 85:2,17 87:21 92:20 112:18,20 122:10 129:17,22 130:1,2,8,9 134:15 156:16 bulb--and/or 34:3 bulbs 18:8 19:16 25:7,19,22 42:22 43:4,9 51:22 52:1,2 85:17 108:21 109:13 133:17 134:2,14 142:15

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 7

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 150:2 156:14 179:8 bulbs--vibration 43:17 bulk 105:3 bullet104:21 bump 46:18 bunch 118:17 124:12 burdened 152:13 burdens 124:17 127:11 Bureau 162:2 Burgess 14:19 16:18 burns 85:2 business 2:9,17 82:4 businesses 174:17 buy25:6,19 71:11 76:12,16,18 84:15 108:20 129:21,22 156:15 158:16 buys 108:19 C calculate 33:1 64:1 151:18 154:10 calculating 146:22 153:4 178:2 calculation 75:7 calculations 172:21 calibrate 163:9 calibration 163:20 California 2:13,17 7:18 29:18 45:14 53:8 95:19 120:19 124:22 144:5 165:14,21 Callahan 2:8 7:3 Canada26:9 Canadian 26:12 candelabras 96:4 candidate 169:19 cans 150:7 can--this 59:15 capacity87:8 173:17 175:5 176:15 178:2,7 capital1:15 156:12 capsule 70:3,5 111:4 capture 85:10 captured 159:2,6 carbon 175:16,19 carbon-based 66:13 care 178:5 careful25:13,17 44:12 113:18 130:1,10 144:8 case 93:1 123:8,17 148:5 151:21 156:22 158:5 160:20 169:17 cases 76:8 89:9 107:19 115:14 169:17 cash 154:10 173:21 174:9

categories 51:9 72:21 categories--well 91:3 category110:3 134:12 Celia 2:5 8:2 32:8 59:15 61:11 62:22 67:5,6 121:6 cell10:10 Census 162:1 centered 99:4 cents 45:9 certain 27:15 32:21 40:5,9 41:20 69:12 79:18 88:21 91:3 96:6 119:4 123:7,9 135:12 139:12 149:19 153:13 certainly 38:8 49:19 54:14 63:1,7 67:13 78:2 85:3 105:20 115:6 118:4 176:21,22 177:10 CERTIFICATE 183:1 certify 73:18 183:4 cetera 31:19 32:7 83:4 CFL 24:12 41:21 42:3,10 56:17 59:3 65:8 70:4,6,7 71:13 74:2 75:7,8

76:10 79:14 82:13 84:4 85:22 88:1 91:10 96:21 97:8 100:5 105:4,10,21 106:5 111:22 121:2,14 149:3 157:15 168:9 179:3 CFLs 18:14 22:18 32:5 39:5 41:11,12,13,15, 17,22 42:1,8,13 56:3,7,16,22 64:6,22 70:2 74:5 75:3,14 76:5 80:7 83:18 86:8 88:10 97:1,4 98:22 99:3 105:3,8,15 106:16 107:12 109:6,8,10 121:13 129:20 133:12 135:19 149:17 155:15 168:13 CFLs--of 105:2 CFR 68:15 chain 17:18 chair49:4,7 challenge 143:9 challenges 65:2 78:12 challenging 64:3 chance 8:17 68:2 76:17 change 47:3 104:17 170:3 177:14

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 8

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 changed 47:3 133:16 changes 115:12 175:9 channel132:4 channels 81:20 128:4,10 132:6,8,15,17,1 9 133:7 135:4 136:13 167:6 characteristics 104:16 106:9 145:1 163:8 179:6 Characterization 146:13 characterize81:3 152:10 characterizing 156:21 charge 19:15 charged 29:21 Charlie 2:18 91:13,14 106:18,19 109:2 147:12,13 166:13 176:10,11 177:21,22 Charlie's 148:16 cheap 155:8 check49:13 choices 18:1 Cholnoky3:5 choose 103:2,19 choosing 78:3 161:4 chosen 103:22 Christine 1:14 183:2,15 circuits 148:10 clarification 138:6 clarify31:7 142:1 clarity32:11 51:21 class 6:7 22:21 87:13 88:7,14,22 94:19 96:4,21 103:5,19,20 110:17 112:14 113:5,7 160:4 classes 22:17,18 51:8 77:15 81:1 87:5,7,14 88:5,20 89:11 90:12 91:8 93:11 94:9 96:14 97:5,18 103:3,12,13,17 107:3 109:17 111:12 115:12,15 123:22 124:2 144:9 162:19 classification 90:20 classifications 93:15 112:6 115:13,17,19 classified110:15 clause 97:3 clear 38:11 44:20 54:18 68:10 94:19,20 111:21 112:3,19 136:2 178:20 clearer 115:18 clearly44:22 45:8 57:7 164:15

clip 101:15 close 21:1 48:10 55:9 94:8 164:17 closely18:7 166:19 closer 36:6 55:15 168:5 180:11 closing 4:18 9:19 181:17 coating 110:9 coatings 111:22 coefficients 163:20 coffee 101:20,22 Coke 102:1 colleague 18:21 24:22 43:2 143:22 159:16 colleagues 176:20 collect 28:14 130:15 134:7 137:6 150:4 collection 51:19 Colleen 3:3 4:14,15 8:4 143:22 145:14,16 159:19 color93:14,15 145:5 colored 40:4 colorful8:22 combine 130:21 152:17 combined 20:14 63:10 comes 21:19

166:19 coming 13:19 16:20 79:3 83:10 161:15,18,20 181:20 comment10:22 12:5,6,8 13:18 14:5 15:21 42:16 44:14 53:19 55:19 56:5 59:3,6 63:1 64:8 65:20 66:22 68:2 70:15,17,19 71:2,7,14 72:16 74:11,19 77:5,13 79:7 83:21 88:6,8,11,13,15 89:11,14 90:1 91:16 93:3,14 95:21 97:11,12 98:3 100:10 109:16,19 116:2 117:2 118:10 121:22 122:1 123:1 124:13 131:13 132:8 135:6,8 138:22 139:7 146:19 147:22 149:15 150:15 154:17 155:2 162:11,13 164:4 167:18 174:19 176:5 180:13 commented 100:3 158:11 commenting 77:10 comments 9:5

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 9

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 10:1 11:6,8,11,16,20 12:22 13:19,21 15:15,17 16:1,10,17 17:4 21:18 24:19 26:4,22 28:14,15,19 32:10 38:14 45:12 55:2 57:17 58:13 59:7 60:1 64:18 65:8 66:4 67:7,14 68:5 69:2 71:3,21 72:13 74:17 79:11 80:16 82:12 86:21 89:2 90:6 93:20 94:3 95:13 98:2 99:14,18,20 100:8,9,11,22 101:3 104:6 106:11 110:16 112:12,13 113:13,15 114:17 115:21 116:21 122:21 123:19 124:6,8,10,12,1 5,16 126:8 127:5,14 128:14 132:6,13 134:22 135:2 146:19,21 151:5 154:18 159:12 163:1 167:21 168:16 170:19,22 171:20 172:20 174:15 179:16,19,20 180:7 181:2,22 182:1 commercial66:19 67:1 68:3 81:13 132:17 133:2,6 138:19,21 141:2 146:15 153:4 158:20 commercially 81:9 114:15 139:17 140:3 Commission 2:17 95:20 120:19 144:6 Committee 6:11 common 40:1 69:13 104:2,4,5,22 105:21 106:14 110:1 113:6,9,11 common--just 138:16 commonly 138:19,20 community 16:8 120:2 compact24:3,5 28:9 39:4 41:7,10,14,18 42:17,18 companies 17:16,17 18:4 20:6 52:10 company1:15 17:19 compare 136:13 compared 108:9,16 160:20 comparing 124:4 145:5 compatible 155:6 compensate 148:10 competitive 138:1

complete 10:7 48:16 completed 17:7 completely53:13 complexity78:6 compliance 27:13,18 29:3,4 73:18 116:17 117:3 123:1,5 152:6 160:11 compliant 20:8 46:7 142:17 complicated 64:15 complicating 166:6 comply20:7 116:12 component 153:15 components 24:8 compounding 144:11 computational 152:11 computing 160:5 concept33:9 63:6 141:7 concern 50:5,7 73:12 74:22 concerned 21:13 23:14 51:14 172:8 177:6 178:12 concerns 14:8 21:2 48:5 77:4,8 concise 10:9 concludes 29:12

concluding 40:14 conclusion 15:1,10 45:19 concur16:16 24:22 72:15 166:14 concurrently30:4 77:2 78:11,21 concurring 15:20 conduct27:6 154:19 173:8 174:3,4 conducted 174:14,22 175:12 confident137:9 confirm 30:15 96:11 171:5 confirming149:4 confounding 34:14 confused 44:3 110:21 confusing 178:11 confusion 119:9,14 123:6 congratulate 17:10 Congress 19:14,19 37:10 62:10 connect65:3 connected 19:3 connection 14:16 40:22 121:10 consensus 33:19 78:8 83:16

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 10

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 conservation 1:5 5:6 77:12 87:12 151:10 163:2 169:3 182:13 consider 16:7 24:7,10 27:22 29:7,10 30:8,16 34:6 45:18,22 53:22 54:11,21 55:2 58:21 69:6 72:5 93:7 96:16 98:1 100:19,21 104:7 110:9 111:1,7 114:11 116:17 121:15,21 139:18 143:16 148:15 153:11 156:8 158:10 160:12 167:19 171:6,8 179:14 considerable 33:5 considerably 179:21 consideration 16:16 47:12 60:2 63:2 67:3,15 88:1,7 122:2 141:18 147:9 153:14 157:8 177:10 179:9 considered 22:14 42:5 70:18,20 81:21 86:15 87:18 88:15 99:9,10,17,22 112:20 117:20 139:17 140:1 169:4 174:16 considering 20:11 27:18 42:12 58:9,13 62:11 65:17 66:10 67:9 73:21 87:13 88:4 111:11 114:9,10 116:14 120:21 124:17 129:7 146:20 151:22 153:4 154:5,19 159:22 161:2 171:19,22 considering--the 132:10 consistent 80:12 125:15,22 126:12,13 127:1 137:3 Consolidated 14:14 40:20 constant128:22 170:4 172:1 constrain 151:1 constrained 171:14 constraints 96:6 121:21 143:12 179:15 construction 66:14 171:7 consult179:14 consultants 3:1 92:20 122:14 142:2 Consulting 3:4 4:7,8,9,10,12,13 ,18 8:9,11,13 consumer 20:3 79:16 87:11 108:16,17 118:20 119:3,9,14,15,1 9 120:4 132:18 133:7 134:1,3

138:21 151:14 154:13 155:20 156:4 157:16,21 158:5,14 169:1 170:4 175:2 consumers 17:22 18:8,13 20:15 25:21 81:16 133:22 151:10 153:21 156:15,22 157:18 158:12 161:4,9 172:8,12 consumer's 151:12 consumes 79:20 consumption 19:1,7 51:7,16 146:12,16 152:8,17 170:18 176:2 contains 70:7 Cont'd 3:1 contend 165:17 content9:8 26:4 38:15,16 181:15 context63:18 continue 20:1 46:22 54:6 77:7 86:3 continued 19:20 continuous 21:12 116:15 122:13,15 contracts 128:6 133:3 contributors 136:6 control170:15

controls 134:2 162:7 convenience 148:21 149:10 conventional 23:2 conversation 63:5 181:21 conversations 10:12 123:4 conversion 170:16 conversions 137:8 convert125:4 Cook 2:8 7:5 32:1 110:20 111:8,17 117:6 122:7 148:7 149:14 155:1,10 166:5 177:12 Cooper2:9,16 7:9,10 cooperation 26:20 copied 56:20 corner102:2 corners 50:17 correct 93:18 115:6 142:16 correction 77:13 correspond 12:6 corroborate 109:2 cost4:14 9:15 21:21 43:15 45:10 50:8,20 82:22 102:19 125:2 126:18 130:2,7,22 133:19 139:8 141:1 143:20 145:11 146:2

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 11

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 151:8,13,19 152:20 153:1,2,22 154:1,5,13,14,1 6 155:3,14,19 156:4,13,21 157:16,21 158:3,5 159:4 169:11,14 170:12 175:1 costs 130:3,8 140:22 151:16,20 152:19 153:5,10,12,20 156:9 157:13 158:9,11 159:5 161:18 166:20 170:13 could--the 181:4 Council2:10,19 7:13 108:22 counsel8:3 14:9 179:15 count12:10 89:20 counter35:1 119:6 country26:18 couple 17:3 57:1 58:3 74:18 180:14 course 6:10 11:7,14 13:14 28:18 37:21 82:6 97:22 106:4 162:4,17 170:9 Court183:1,2,16 cover72:6 87:18,19,22 89:10 93:21 104:12 112:18

coverage 4:7 9:9 38:22 covered 9:22 30:20 39:12 53:18 59:20 73:17 74:13 87:7 88:12,16 89:6 91:6 104:5 105:9 109:5,18 110:1,5,7,22 111:2,7,12,18 112:2,13 120:21 121:11,17 131:16 147:1 154:8 160:4 162:19 176:3 179:9 180:9 covering 89:8 90:5 112:14 covers 175:7 craft30:18 create 123:15 174:4 created 130:20 creates 50:21 95:5,7 118:21 credit18:3 Cree 52:11,17 CRI144:8 criteria69:14 73:15 81:6 99:9,19,21 114:2 140:13 criterion 107:2 cross-border 26:14 crossed 54:12 crosses 26:18 54:10

cumulative 85:19 86:7 curious 23:2,20 30:14 current20:18 22:13 57:4 80:13 83:18 97:8 99:7 100:7 170:14 180:15 currently 23:22 26:1 41:9,16 42:9 65:14 74:3 98:15 129:7 143:1 163:4 curtails 41:2 curve 118:15 122:13,15 131:1,3 135:21 139:8 curves 21:7 130:14 135:6,10,11 137:16,20 144:13 customers 152:6,12 cut80:7 cycle 24:9 27:9 47:11 102:19 cycles 27:7 Cymbalsky2:4 4:2 5:12,13,14 78:22 D D.C 1:10 5:9 data11:22 40:13 48:16,22 50:7 51:19 52:5 54:13 67:14

80:14 82:9 84:5 91:20 106:21 109:1,3,7,9,11 116:18 117:3 123:2 130:15 134:8,18 141:19 143:3 146:10 147:16 148:6,16 149:4,12 150:4,7 161:22 162:5,20 163:10,11,17 164:10 167:5,13 182:4,5 database 91:19 116:20 123:6 data--or 48:13 dataset52:12 date 27:13,18 29:3,4 160:11 182:6 Dave 122:21,22 155:11,12 David 2:9 7:6 day9:20 102:4 105:6 181:2 days 94:17 dead57:14 deadline 12:22 13:3 16:11 180:15 deal38:13 179:4 debt154:14 deButts 2:4 4:6,19 8:14 11:2,4 27:2 47:6,8 54:20 78:16,19 95:12 97:15 138:14 141:15 143:3,7 179:13 180:18

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 12

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 181:9,16,18 deButts--sorry 47:6 decade 168:9 December 27:8 28:13 29:1,2,4 decide 150:10 decision 21:16 165:9 decisions 30:10 161:3 167:11 declare 63:12 decline 67:11 137:18 declining 129:1 138:2 decrease 171:9 decreasing 128:19 defense 2:10 7:13 165:2 defer49:2 define 89:15 91:4 defined 41:9 42:9 65:15 153:16 definitely14:1 15:13 47:12 79:1 100:21 105:18 134:21 159:11 179:13 180:20 181:9 definition 39:3,11,14,18 40:3 41:8,10,18,21 42:2,4,10,11,15 65:13,16,19,21 66:9 68:8,12,18 69:5,9 70:16 71:3 74:1 88:16 104:14 112:12

definitions 42:17,19 59:4,8 64:18 65:8 66:2,5 77:14,21 94:3 110:14 deLaski2:12 4:5 15:18,19 16:15 24:22 36:4,7,18,22 37:16,22 38:2 43:2 46:18 48:11 50:4 55:5,10,12,17 56:2,5,11 57:21 58:16,21 59:11,17 60:3 61:8,16,19 62:3,6,10,20 72:14,15 94:6 108:14 126:7 138:5,6,12,16 139:3 142:9,12 143:5,9 157:11,22 158:6 165:2,5 181:4 delay86:12,17 deliver 22:6 23:12 34:16 delivered 15:12 delivering21:22 29:21 120:8 demographics 92:9,11 demolition 171:9 density99:7 department 1:3,8 2:4,5 4:2 5:5,15 6:9 8:14 10:16 11:22 13:14,21 15:7,8 30:15 31:2 48:17 49:14 56:12

57:8 60:6 104:20 123:18 143:10 181:5 Department--I 77:17 Department's 14:17 depended 107:17 depending 33:11 104:17 129:17 depends 117:20 Depot17:18 51:22 52:4 134:11 158:1 derive 154:11 derived 107:15 describe 138:9 158:8 described 23:8 56:13 describing 126:22 128:21 design 94:9 99:6,9,13 103:7 116:10 118:22 designed 36:1 41:22 90:16 designing 19:15 designs 114:11 124:15 127:11 146:1 despite 18:15 detail65:3 74:16 103:16 detailed 14:22 77:13 105:1 123:19 160:17 details 159:21

determination 4:12 9:14 21:14 22:15 23:15,21 56:15 102:15 125:7,12 127:17,19,21 130:22 determine 40:8 81:1 99:12 102:16 115:14 124:3 145:22 146:8,20 152:12 153:18 154:9 156:19 157:18 168:22 169:13 determined22:12 103:8 124:2 126:4 155:15 determines 39:8 151:9 175:5 determining 125:12 137:18 154:5 develop 116:9 121:9,13 123:22 128:8 137:3 139:8 144:12 145:2 146:9 167:5 169:5,10 developed 74:7 125:2 133:5 146:6 developing 59:7 66:2 71:3 73:21 100:8 116:15,22 125:9 130:14 137:10 development 66:14 139:11 develops 103:9

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 13

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 126:16 device 178:20 differ 45:7 difference44:7 130:4 differences 106:12 140:21 152:2 different 17:20 34:4,11,18 44:21 47:21 53:13 55:6,13,18 58:3 86:8 87:10 89:12 94:21 100:17 107:5,6,7 108:4,7,15 111:11 113:21 119:13 120:7,21 121:1 122:17,18 135:9,20,21 143:1 149:9,18 151:11 153:11 154:7 162:21 166:21 175:11 179:21 differentiate 96:5 differently112:17 149:8 150:3 difficult 49:20 164:16,21 166:12 difficulty164:6 diffuse 66:12 111:22 112:4 dim 90:18 149:17 dimmability88:9 89:16 104:13,14 dimmable 88:12 89:15,18,21 90:17 91:4 104:3,21 105:5,11,21 106:2,5,6,13,16 150:5dimmable/nondimmable 90:13 dimmed 90:16,19,20 148:12 dimmer 105:5 155:6,7 dimmers 150:8,10,20 162:9 dimming 89:20 148:10 149:19,22 150:2,16,22 151:3 diode 39:6,7 68:19 dioxide 175:16,19 direct40:8 76:6 133:3 155:16 173:16 175:12 directed 27:6,10,22 29:8 direction 183:6 directions 73:4 directly 9:9,13 103:13 126:4 177:2 director 7:22 directs 27:12 disagree 43:5 67:13 disagreeing 36:8 disappointed 19:19

discontinued 40:10 discontinuities 21:10 discount 136:15,17,18 152:18 154:9,12 170:6 discounted 151:15 discounts 128:2,9 136:19 137:8 discretionary 165:9 discuss 11:18 12:4 24:15 65:2 80:19 102:15 152:21 discussed 39:17 70:19 74:7 152:16 discussing 38:22 98:11 102:13 125:11 164:9 182:1 discussion 24:14 86:13 discussions 6:4 13:16 16:3 84:3 115:11 discuss--so 173:7 displayed 78:12 disposal 153:20,22 154:1 157:13 disruption 123:15 distinctions 97:5 distinguish 68:10 130:2 distribution 17:17

81:20 128:3,9 132:4,6,8,15,16, 21 133:1 134:19 135:3 136:13 146:9 152:5 161:20 181:6 distributions 152:10 distributors 47:19 128:6 132:11 133:3 divergent56:1 divide 32:3 divides 87:6 divisions 88:5,7 do--and 84:7 docket12:15 19:10,14 23:17 51:20 60:18 62:12,15 64:12 126:9,11 131:20 143:15 150:9 docket--and19:12 dockets 23:16 51:11 130:8 143:2,13 document 12:7,13,14 15:2 16:2,21 22:22 28:13 32:14 42:21 76:1 93:4 documents 28:17 DoE 2:3 4:6,19 8:2 10:8 12:16 14:22 19:12,15 20:10,21 21:5 22:11,15,19 23:3,7,20 24:4,7,9,11 27:6,9,12,21

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 14

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 29:6,22 37:2,6,17 40:8,11,12,17 41:4,9 42:7,12,16 45:18,19,21,22 47:8,9 51:11 53:19 54:11,21 56:14 58:4,8 59:12,19 60:16,18 61:5,8 62:13 64:9,12 65:15,16,20 66:9,22 68:2,8 69:6,13,18 70:2,11,15,16,1 8 72:4 73:1,10,21 74:7,11 75:21 76:22 81:3,4,7,18 82:9 83:11 87:6,11,13 88:4,6,8,10,13,1 5,22 89:15 91:17 92:19 94:12 96:11 97:3,11 98:14 99:12,14,17,20 103:1,3,6,8,11,1 8 104:1,7,15 108:11 110:2 113:5,8,10,13 114:7,11,14,17 116:9,17,20 122:13 123:4,10,21 124:3,6 126:16 128:2,8,18 134:7 141:18 142:2 146:8,19,21 147:8 149:11 150:4,19 151:22 153:2,6,9,18,19 154:1,4,9,11,18 160:15 165:5,10 167:5,9,11,14 173:8,19,22 174:2,4,8,10,14, 16 175:1,4,14,17,2 2 179:6 180:16 DoE's 14:13 16:22 19:18 20:12 21:13,16 22:17 23:4,15 41:1,13 43:5 56:6 58:1 73:16 95:1 97:9 116:14 128:4 129:6,10 136:2 146:11,12 159:22 165:2 do-it-yourself 134:12 dollar50:8 dollars 128:19 170:5 dominant33:8 done 16:11 33:20 77:21 78:5 92:16 101:11 105:1 110:2 122:14 126:9,11 129:8 163:21 door8:21 double 49:13 135:14 doubling 135:16 Doug2:2 5:13 11:5 13:5 96:9 145:16 download92:16 downloadable 91:19 92:12 downstream 102:19 179:22

dozen43:17 dramatically 83:10,16 166:8 drawing178:21 driven 75:9 driver 92:21 93:8,17,18 95:6 99:6 118:11 drivers 93:5 drop 121:5,12,18 144:8 145:3,6,9,11 158:2 dropped 144:2 dropping166:8 drops 121:10 drugstores 132:20 due18:3 43:21 47:11 71:15 94:17 101:6 123:6 175:3,9,17,19 durable 108:18 durables 108:16 during21:4 35:15 64:9 70:4 dynamic 85:4 E earlier 27:21 47:9 57:18 64:8 67:7 71:22 95:21 109:22 110:14 121:20 149:17 155:17 158:11 165:16 171:5 early73:15 easier 12:2,11 164:19

easily43:8 Easton's 2:9,16 easy32:22 64:1 Eaton's 7:8,10 echo 118:10 Eckman 108:22 economic 160:19 169:7 economically 67:12 economics 107:22 economy2:20 165:15 educating 119:19 120:4 education 17:21 119:16 effect25:3 31:18 44:20,22 53:12 57:5 72:8 79:8 119:7 120:14 164:7,8 165:13,16 168:11 177:15 178:15 181:11 effectively16:5 effects 164:11,15 effect--this 43:17 efficacies 103:11 124:4 efficacious 103:7 113:6,9,11 114:11 115:1,8 116:8 118:18 147:6 efficacy 66:20 81:3 88:3,10 98:12 99:4,11

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 15

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 102:17 103:9 114:8 116:2,9,12,14,1 6,22 123:22 127:20 130:18 efficiencies 30:21 152:5 efficiency2:18 6:5 22:6,10 31:9 73:19 75:4,7,16 81:19 91:15 93:13 98:13,19 99:1 115:3 122:11 125:3 126:18 130:14,22 131:3 139:8 144:13,14 145:2,7 148:18 151:11,20 160:5,6 168:3,13 176:2 179:5,8 efficient2:20 18:10,14 19:4 43:22 115:4 130:6,8,9 133:12 146:1 149:5 181:14 effort17:16 64:3 120:3 efforts 18:4 103:21 EIA18:22 EIA's 153:7 eight88:4 EISA17:9,13 19:8,14 22:7 27:6 28:2 40:7 46:7,10 53:8,14 109:5 118:16 165:7 elaborate 106:11

electric2:11 77:11 electrical7:2 128:6 132:11 133:2 Electronic 2:7,15 electronically 12:17 Electronics 2:8,15 52:22 128:18 137:15 150:15 163:7 element 23:11 149:10 elements 24:10,12 eliminated114:9 else 97:12 143:19 elucidate 75:2 104:20 e-mail181:6 emerging 66:18 105:4 emissions 175:14,15 emit114:12 emitter 89:10 emitting 39:6,7 employed 183:9 employment 173:16 175:7,8,11,13 empty171:15 enacted 17:8 19:14 56:21 enclosure 87:20 112:18 encourage 11:6,10

45:18 59:22 64:13 122:13 157:8 172:6 End-Use 146:11 end-user 102:17 125:4,12 127:20 136:21 energies 169:11 energy1:3,5,8 2:4,5,17,18,20 4:2,13 5:5,16,20 7:15 8:15 9:14 13:16 16:8 18:9 19:1,4,6 21:22 22:6 32:22 33:11 34:15 51:7,16 56:20 57:1,4 58:10,11 77:12 80:8,10 86:1 87:8,12 91:15 92:2 95:19 98:13 107:14 115:2 120:19 143:20 144:5 145:20,22 146:8,14,15,20 150:6 151:9,19 152:8,15,17,19 153:6,8 160:6 161:12,13,21 163:2 168:3 169:1,3,6,13,15, 18,20,21,22 170:10,12,14,17 ,21 176:1,2 177:16 178:3 182:13 Energy's 5:5 10:16 enforce 41:3 enforcement 80:14

engaged 35:19 engaging 59:19 engineering 4:11 7:22 9:13 87:6 99:11 102:13,14 103:2 124:13,18,19 125:1,10 127:12,18 128:1 130:21 139:19 140:1 146:6 161:17 enlarge 133:14 ensure 100:6 entailed 20:8 enter120:7 123:6 entered 123:9 entire 17:11,17 62:12 92:3,8 entirely 17:20 135:20 entity31:3 enumerated 73:4 environment 20:17 Environmental 2:11 7:15 envisioned 63:6 envisions 22:19 EPA168:2 EPACT 24:5,6 57:10 EPCA27:5 29:8 67:11 73:14 97:8 equal23:13 28:3 114:12 136:5

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 16

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 151:14 Equation 21:8 equation-based 117:1,17 118:3 equations 21:7 116:15 118:13 equipment156:13 equity154:16 equivalent 29:21 33:10 35:20 36:12,17 53:22 63:14,22 equivalents 25:7 error21:16,17,18 123:7 escalate 26:1 83:9 especially68:11 90:12 123:18 141:1 essentially117:10 establish 29:11 30:1 117:3 127:21 established 27:14 establishes 87:11 establishing87:13 115:2 116:3 establishment 87:5 123:14 estimate 139:9 147:15 150:19 153:8 154:1,13 169:8 170:21 173:14 175:15 estimate/guess 164:20 estimates 81:20 164:22 estimating84:19

estimations 84:8 et31:19 32:7 83:4 Europe 122:14,17 evaluate 11:15 24:12 27:7 37:2,6,18 60:6 61:9 62:17 73:11 141:20 evaluated 89:4 182:7 evaluates 60:18 61:5 evaluating 22:11,16 27:15 29:6 60:7 73:2 evaluation 61:15 ever-increasing 84:13 everybody6:2 12:19 84:6 109:9 everyone 5:4,10,16,18 8:17 11:10,17 13:1 32:17 47:4 59:1 181:18 182:8,9 everyone's 31:4 everything 35:9 82:8 139:2,3 everywhere 47:15 evolve 19:16 ex77:3 123:3 exact49:20 129:16,22 exactly43:20 44:11 77:6 164:10 178:6 examine 21:15

98:15 173:16 example 41:11 43:10 52:3 53:2 60:16 70:2,6 72:3 96:3,18,20 110:4 113:20 134:9 162:9 170:1 Excellent 163:19 164:2 exception 156:13 exchange 38:10 excitement71:12 exclude 67:3 excluded 40:3 42:15 65:19 71:15 82:19 excluding 66:10 67:10 exclusion 67:8 excuse 32:9 exempt39:13 40:12,14 exempted 21:15 22:3 40:11 41:20 42:22 43:4 45:17 51:9 53:9,17 54:2,6,17 55:1 72:19 73:11 exemption 40:16 exemptions 27:15 40:9 42:8 exist163:4 179:4 existing 24:7 27:15 28:8 41:13 58:1,2,17 63:10 66:20 68:8 74:2 76:15 98:1 113:8

142:17 171:13,16 exists 6:8 expand 51:3 131:6 133:6 expansion 50:18 expect94:2 expectation 43:14 expected 82:21 140:21 141:2 152:5 160:11 161:8 expecting 180:17 expects 153:2 expenditures 175:9 expensive 172:13 experience 135:6,10,11,13, 21 137:16,19 experienced40:15 explain 92:15 explanation 15:1 explicitly100:20 exploitation 50:12,19 explore 83:20 exponentially 128:19 extend 68:21 extending 72:5 extension 13:17 15:21 180:14 extent177:6 external90:5 93:17 153:13

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 17

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 externally41:12 75:3,9 87:17 90:13,21 91:9,11 92:22 93:16 104:3 extra 87:20 extracting 170:1 extrapolated 128:13 eye 61:1 F face 18:1 FACILITATOR 2:1 facilities 156:11 fact26:8 55:8 84:21 109:11 148:16,19 149:16 166:7 factor 24:11 58:7,22 87:18 88:1 105:22 112:14 148:14,22 149:8,20 166:6 176:16,17 177:8,14,18 178:13,16,17,20 179:10 factors 29:8 58:9 87:15 88:3,14 93:12 107:21 116:10 124:3 170:16 Facts 116:20 fails 84:10 153:21 157:13 failure 171:16 fair82:20 148:9 fairly32:22 55:8 64:15 fall74:8 94:14 110:10,11,17 falling 101:16 falls 110:4 121:20 familiar 160:21 fascinating 18:22 fashion 167:14 faster 166:9 fault77:10 favor156:7 feasibility81:8 82:20 83:3 feasible 103:10 feat26:13 features 58:6 87:9,10 144:9 fed 87:6 federal6:10 47:1 163:3 168:2 181:7 feedback140:16 173:22 174:17 feel14:4 137:9 150:15 Feit53:3 felt118:16 fewer 158:15,16,18 field 106:21 147:16 figure 48:19 85:5 139:20 145:10 figures 47:2 filament 98:22 100:15

filament-based 83:18 filaments 43:14 fill38:7,9 99:1 171:13 filled 84:18 filling 171:19 final26:22 27:10 28:2 29:2 56:16 72:12 86:21 88:1 115:21 122:20 135:2 151:4 152:20 finally27:21 103:11 123:21 164:8 financial 83:3 154:13 159:8 174:6 183:10 finding 71:17 fine 8:18 finely15:14 finish 101:11 firm 158:22 first10:4 13:13 21:5 27:9 66:11 69:21 77:22 84:15 85:8 87:16 90:1 103:2 118:9 139:8 153:1 157:17 172:14 174:5 180:6 fit22:20 88:21 89:13 90:9 115:15 fits 76:15 five 40:12,14 54:6 80:9 109:8

fix77:20 fixture 76:15 91:22 92:1,5 155:18,22 156:1,5 fixtures 76:18 134:2 flag97:11 flat35:16 64:4 66:15 flavors 47:21 157:3 fleet30:19 32:4 35:5 36:1 75:18 flexibility 20:13,14 floor101:20 flow173:21 174:9 flows 154:10 fluorescent24:3,5 28:9 39:5,15 41:7,10,15,18 42:17,18 75:8 125:16 126:2 focus 10:10 103:20 focused 73:1 95:22 122:9 171:12 focusing 119:16 172:15 folks 10:17 178:1 follow-up 172:5 fore 180:11 forecast 108:10 139:14 161:14 163:8 170:11

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 18

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 forecasting 160:14 162:14 168:15 forecasts 161:13 162:6 163:7 170:15 foregoing 183:3 forgetting 56:19 Forrestal 5:9 101:18 forth 38:12 73:14 fortunately 165:21 forward45:3 85:11 108:10 181:15 fossil170:1 fraction 162:9 framework1:5 5:6 12:7,13,14 15:2 16:2,21 20:9 21:5 22:12,22 23:6,7 27:8 28:13 30:10 93:4 97:20 110:7 112:21 181:15 182:14 Francisco 43:12 freely26:19 friends 26:8 from--and 56:20 front162:6 frosted 110:9 111:15 112:19 fuels 170:1 full25:15 164:15 full-fuel-cycle 169:21,22 170:17

function 118:16 119:12 120:10 122:11 functionality70:8 functions 21:12 funders 176:13 177:5 funds 14:16 40:22 furthermore 75:13 future 53:20 80:14 81:19 108:4,7 122:8 129:13 139:9 153:8 160:3,14 164:18 G gaming 21:10 gap 13:20 gases 99:1 gather136:3 140:15 gathered 136:8 gathering 84:5 Gatto 2:9 7:6 122:22 155:12,13 GE 7:20 52:2 79:15 105:19 117:16 general1:6 2:11 5:6,17 8:2 11:15 15:2 39:2,3,5,10,14,1 5,17,20 41:5 42:2,5,13 60:7,10,12,13 65:12,14,18,21 66:17 67:2 68:4

69:10,20 70:10 72:16 74:19 75:14 76:8 91:16 94:7 100:4 103:1 124:13 125:15 126:2 132:22 135:15 146:10 150:4 156:7 158:9 160:8 162:11 163:1 169:5 175:5 182:14 generally 21:9 66:17 67:17 93:7 106:2 125:2 133:22 135:12 170:19,22 generate 51:10 130:17 generating 178:22 generation 157:7 176:15 178:2,7,8,16 generically157:5 Gerke 3:3 4:16,17 8:6 30:6 86:11 129:4 148:1 159:16,19,20 163:13,18,21 167:16 168:20 171:18 172:18 173:2 176:21 177:9 gets 14:3 19:17 24:2 79:8 149:12 getting 50:20,21 78:4 120:5,9,12 GFLs 127:3 given 15:22 25:6 33:6 75:2 115:15 116:13 160:15 gives 44:9,10 122:10 glad 5:10 77:19 182:8 glass 87:20 112:3,4 going-in 62:17 gone 17:21 25:1 57:1 77:3 158:2 172:11 gotten 18:8 government 47:1 173:19 grasp 48:15 great11:21 13:22 15:7 98:4 101:1 120:12 135:1 142:6 147:19 greater 28:3 114:13 greatest 50:11 Green 2:9 7:10 GRIM173:20 grocery132:20 134:17 ground 10:4 101:20 170:2 group 33:18 117:8 grow76:18 growing60:21 growth 40:15 43:4 161:14 162:21 GSFL/IRL 126:11 161:1

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 19

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 GSFLs 42:14 GSIL 42:4,15 65:19 69:9,14 70:12,13 123:8 GSILs 39:4,19 41:4 59:21 69:8 74:1 98:20 GSL 39:19 40:18 41:8 65:13 66:9 69:6 74:1 81:4 153:21 154:12 157:13 GSLs 27:7 28:4 87:14 97:7 98:12 145:21 151:22 152:4 153:2,10,20 159:18 162:18 163:3 guaranteeing 84:8 guess 16:20 37:16 38:13 48:17 51:8 55:10 94:15 96:8,12 110:21 126:15 guesses 164:22 guidance 94:13 160:15 guys 31:14 36:8 94:16 H habit78:14 half 25:4 109:6 176:17 177:19 halfway101:9 halogen 18:10 32:6 70:3,5 85:21 86:5 100:14 106:4 129:20 149:1

halogen-type 39:20 hand10:19 95:16 120:16 handing173:2,4 handle 26:11 93:2 hands 143:14,17 hang101:21 happen 50:16 54:1 108:6 happens 109:12 115:5 happy5:18 162:15 hard10:16 34:2,20 35:12 36:13 88:20 89:11 115:13 158:17,18 hard--if 155:21 hardware 134:12 hardwire 155:22 harmful20:2 harmonize 26:9 has--every 109:10 haven't9:21 25:4,15 105:1 have--that's 111:11 have--the 18:10 have--you 119:1 having19:9 62:15 71:17 90:5 119:7 178:21 head142:19 health 81:17 hear10:21 16:3 23:9 86:10 102:10 105:6 106:7 145:14 162:16 179:16 180:18 182:9 heard 50:9 111:14 heavens 49:9 help 13:22 17:22 89:21 99:12 167:2 181:8 helped 30:18 helpful15:22 104:10 105:18 106:11 116:5 151:1 167:17 helping 82:9 166:1 helps 47:10 hereby183:3 Here's 15:18 he's 32:7 Hey49:16 hi95:18 102:11 120:18 121:6 HID 78:3 high 103:22 104:16 128:10 136:18,19 high-efficiency 85:9 higher73:8 98:19 99:1 114:7 133:19 151:20 highest114:22 115:5,7 highlight21:1 high-output22:4 hindrance 20:19

historical 129:11,12 142:14 161:22 162:18 163:10,11,17 168:15 history27:4 29:13 166:10 hit82:16 hitting 63:13 hold84:21 127:6 128:21 holidays 13:20 home 17:18 51:22 52:4 109:4,5 128:6 132:11 134:11 157:22 homes 108:18 109:13 172:1,7 homes--but 107:12 honor46:22 hope 17:5 20:20 21:2 24:15 38:10 72:4 83:11,19 84:9 95:8 hopefully12:19 13:1 32:12 51:20 92:10 94:2 120:11 181:19,22 182:9 hoping11:16 28:16 52:5 133:14 Horowitz2:10 4:5 7:12 24:21 33:17,22 42:20 44:5,7 45:5 50:1

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 20

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 51:18 64:20 68:6,14,16,20 71:20 75:1 79:10 83:6 84:2 92:19 112:16 113:1,17 114:5 122:6 129:15 134:5 141:6 142:1,6 149:22 150:1 157:2 179:2 180:12 hosting 13:14 hotel46:15 hours 86:1 91:22 107:7,14,18 146:8,9,22 148:22 149:7 153:17 157:6 161:20 household-- particularly 158:17 households 92:10 houses 92:4 107:10 how--it's 105:6 Howley2:11 7:19 32:15 33:15 35:1 36:13,21 37:12,20 38:1 44:16 49:6,10,19 54:4,5 63:4 67:16,17,22 73:7 85:13,15,16 90:11 93:9,10 105:19 111:19 114:20 117:16 119:6 132:15 138:11,22 148:14 164:4 huge 19:6,9 45:16

51:6 105:21 human 123:7 Husain 3:5 4:12,13,18 8:12 102:11 105:13 110:6,13 111:1,5,10 112:8,21 113:3 114:7 115:20 116:7 123:21 124:11 125:9 127:16 131:9,22 132:5,9 134:21 136:10 139:16 140:5,10 142:5 143:21 173:5,6 174:20 176:9,19 180:3 hybrid 69:21 70:16 71:3 72:21 79:13 hybrids 79:21 I I'd 5:16 6:8 26:7 68:1 82:12 137:15 159:15 175:10 idea19:13 21:8,11 47:14 identical 111:9 identified70:9,11 74:6 99:15 128:1 identifies 103:6 118:12 identify74:8 75:19 81:2 139:19 145:21 173:13 identifying 116:8

ignorance 68:7 ignore 123:13 Ikea 158:1 I'll13:11 14:2,9,10 15:19 44:13,16 48:18 59:6 60:5 82:11 86:17 100:7 125:11 143:21 149:10 159:20 173:7 174:20 181:13,16,18 illumination 70:3 illustrate77:9 illustrates 164:5 I'm 5:10,13,14 7:21 13:12 24:16 29:9 31:12 36:4,7 38:14,21 44:3 48:15 52:22 56:19 59:2 60:4 64:20 76:4 77:5,18 78:7 82:8 86:12 88:22 91:8,14,16 96:1 97:9 100:19 102:11,12 107:1 109:20 110:21 121:8,12 125:20 140:8 141:6,7 142:16 143:5 145:17 152:21 155:2 156:7 158:22 159:7,19 171:4 173:2 176:12,19 177:1 180:15 182:8 images 44:14 imaginary177:19

imagine 43:8 immediate6:19 49:6 immediately9:1 118:2 immobility88:2 impact9:18 25:5,15 27:19 37:5 53:9 88:8 102:20 107:22 144:10 146:4 151:9 159:17 160:1 163:2 166:20 173:10,11,18,20 175:4,5,7,11,21 176:13,14 177:1 178:14,22 180:4 impacted 174:18 175:3 impacts 4:16 53:20 81:15,17 144:11 148:3 160:6 168:21,22 169:7 170:8 173:12,14,17 174:11 175:1,8,22 178:7 implement41:3 135:10 implementation 17:12 implications 26:17 implies 28:14 importance 120:5 important 14:21 22:5 23:10 26:15 59:21

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 21

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 64:10 75:10 116:3 153:15 importantly 117:11 improve 22:10 81:2 98:11,13,21 99:10 100:15 176:1 improved 23:18 66:21 99:2,5,6 145:7,12 improvement 77:14 132:12 139:13 improvement/ hardware 128:7 improvements 99:4 inappropriate 67:18 Inc2:2 3:4 4:7,8,9,10,12,13 ,18 incandescent 14:17 20:11 25:20 27:16,17 32:7 33:7 39:4,10,14,16,1 8,19 40:2,5,9 41:1 44:4 46:16 60:8,11,14,17 72:4 76:6 84:4,17,21 85:6 86:5 89:4 100:4,15 106:3 110:4 111:15,20 112:2 118:1 119:18 121:3,16 125:16 126:2 135:19 149:2 150:20 156:1 incandescents 18:10 72:7 110:10 111:14 129:20 155:17 157:4 172:7 include 23:3 43:5 52:12 56:18 59:21 61:14 83:1 96:2 121:3 133:15 146:11 154:14 157:8 162:6 169:22 179:7 included 39:18 41:8,19 52:5 65:1,13 66:9 69:15 72:10 73:9,22 78:10 79:21 95:1 100:11 104:9 145:8 155:15 165:7 includes 39:2 51:21 98:20,22 99:3 139:1,3 including 39:3,12 40:3,18 41:4,21 42:12 65:17 152:18 income 175:9 incomplete 165:17 incorrect 34:1 96:2 incorrectly25:14 increase 46:11 72:7 83:16 98:21 171:7 increased 18:2 22:14 99:5 151:20 increasing 52:10

79:14 129:2 increment 75:20 incremental 21:21,22 141:1 145:8,11 incumbent44:10 incurred 154:15 indeed 22:12 37:7 73:11 indeed--the 35:6 Independence 1:9 indicated 40:17 136:16 indirect 175:8 individual31:3,20 134:8 industry2:6 7:20 20:4 26:18 34:11 35:11 63:6 79:6 95:4 119:15 123:4 135:12 162:20 173:15,18,21 174:4,9 178:14 industry's 36:2 inexpensive 25:20 infer126:7,8 information 8:21 11:21 12:1 15:9 81:18 82:5 89:1 90:8 104:9,11 105:17 140:15,20 146:14 162:17 164:14 174:7 178:18 182:3 infrared 100:14 in-house 171:21 initial17:8 72:19 90:11 180:13 initially50:15 79:17 initiate 54:22 initiated 27:6,9 input146:2,6 162:3 163:3 167:18 181:20 inputs 154:21 161:11 170:8,21 171:6 inside 70:7 101:18 install81:10 82:14,18 153:6 155:14,22 installation 81:12 152:19 153:1,2,4 155:3,19 158:8,11 installations 155:5 installing 169:11 instance 61:8 107:8 119:10 instances 159:4 instant70:3 instead 57:6 103:19 117:8 126:20 181:7 intelligent19:15 intend 24:11 29:22 93:1 128:22 171:8 intended 69:10,20 70:10 intends 23:3 24:4

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 22

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 intent32:18 97:9 intention 123:1 interacts 107:18 interchangeably 93:6 interest 47:4 150:2 179:11 183:10 interested22:19 75:22 82:8 83:2 178:1 interesting84:16 85:4 149:16 181:21 Internet12:20 128:7 132:12 interpret 31:11 34:7 138:18 interpretation 15:6 16:18,22 19:18 20:13,17,18 30:15 31:1 34:11 35:22 interpretations 44:21 45:1 interpreted59:18 interpreting42:7 interprets 20:10,21 interview 174:9,10 interviews 174:1,8 introduce 8:17 159:16 introduced 118:18 introduction 145:16 introductions 4:3

6:14,19 inventories 47:14 172:1 inventory108:18 109:12 171:21 172:6,7,12,17 invested 20:6 investigate 160:13 investments 20:5 Investor 2:13 7:18 involve 171:19 involved 32:16 33:14,18 122:18 involves 146:5 involving 59:20 93:15,16 IOUs 29:18 45:14 53:8 124:22 IRLs 127:3 is--it79:19 isn't36:9 61:9 89:16 141:11 178:20 is--or 125:1 issue 28:1 42:16 54:19 56:14 58:18 59:3,22 64:18,21 65:20 66:4,22 68:5 70:15,16,18 71:7,21 72:13 74:11 79:5,11 81:18 88:6,13,15 99:14,17,20 101:2 104:6,15 108:14 113:13 114:17,21 116:16,21 117:2 120:20

124:6,12,14,16 128:14 154:17,18 164:5 174:14,16 178:11 180:21 issue--before 89:1 issued 78:22 issues 9:6,21 12:4,7,17 13:8 17:4 24:16 55:13,18 58:15,16 66:2 78:6 124:19 127:12 162:11 167:18 176:5 179:20 180:8 182:2 it--are 20:19 it'd 134:18 150:3 item 13:15 30:16 42:21 82:13 104:20 146:18 items 58:3 iterations 57:2 it's 6:18 12:9,10,15 18:15 19:20 20:2 21:11 29:14 30:14,17 33:22 34:10 37:9 38:1 42:20 43:3,15 44:20,22 45:8 46:14,18 47:10 50:10 52:5,17 53:15 54:16 57:1 58:12 60:21 61:2,6 63:22 64:10,12,14 65:5 66:20 68:7 73:11 76:3 77:9

80:4 82:21 84:19 85:19 86:1 87:19 88:20 89:8,9,10,11,17 93:17 94:19 100:16,19 101:8 106:10 107:20 111:8,21 112:19 115:7,13 118:5,6 121:18 122:16 125:21 134:11 138:14,20 141:17 142:13 143:2,9 150:11 151:21 152:4 155:4,21 158:10,17 164:16,21 165:7,13,17 172:2,7 181:6,10,19,21 182:6 it's--I 44:19 I've 62:15 77:20 135:22 148:8 155:4 J Jantz-Sell2:11 7:14 168:1,7 January1:11 5:8 12:22 17:6 25:2 27:11 28:6 164:8 165:13 180:15 Jen 119:21 Jennifer 2:19 119:22 jobs 20:7

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 23

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Joe 2:11 7:19 32:15 33:13 34:22 36:5,7 38:12 44:15 49:4,16 54:4 63:3 67:16,21 73:6,7 85:15,16 90:10 93:9 105:19 111:19 114:19,20 117:15,16 119:5 132:14 138:17 142:16 148:14 158:11 164:3 165:3,12 Joe's 116:2 149:14 John 2:4,9 4:2 5:12,14 7:10 14:6 78:22 John's 18:21 join 19:12 95:17 joining 95:15 judged 77:5 jump 31:14 justified 67:12 K Kantner 3:3 4:14,15 8:4 143:22 145:15,17 147:8,19 148:13 149:11 151:7 157:17 158:4 159:10,15 Keith 2:8 7:5 31:22 110:19,20 111:13 117:5,6 122:7 142:16 148:6,7 149:13 154:22 155:1,13 156:14 166:4,5,15 177:11,12 Keith's 118:10 120:6 159:3 Ken 2:17 95:15,17,19 120:15,16,18 144:1,2,5,16 kick5:22 kicks 46:10 Kienle 3:6 4:7,8,9,10 8:10 38:20,21 65:12 66:8 68:12,15,18,22 69:5 73:14 80:19 87:3 89:22 93:3 94:1 97:17 98:10 100:18 101:7 kilolumen 128:20 knowledge 71:8 Kyle 2:15 L Lab 159:20 label51:22 52:4 labor153:5 Laboratory3:2 4:14,15,16,17 8:5,7 145:18 lag25:2 lamp 13:13 21:20 22:1,16,20 23:17 24:5 27:17 32:20 33:4 35:2 39:2,3,11,14,15, 16 40:3,11,12,14 41:5,18

42:4,17,18 44:9 45:17 49:4,7 53:18,21 54:2,3,6 65:4,14,21 66:16 68:19,21 69:19,21 70:6,10,16,17 71:4,6 73:12 74:6,12,19 76:9 80:5 81:2 87:17,19 91:22 92:1,5 93:12 98:17 100:4 103:6 104:12,17 110:7 111:8 113:4,5,7,10,12, 19,20 114:8,13,14,22 115:6,8 116:9,11,12 120:21 121:11,18 127:22 128:11,12,13 131:15 139:20 145:4,12 150:5 152:2 153:6,13,17,22 155:21 157:5,14,19 158:13,15 161:15,17 170:9,13,14 171:17 177:17 lamps 1:6 5:7,17 11:16 14:17 15:3 21:15 22:4,10 23:1,2,3,5,18 24:3 27:16 28:9 32:3 39:4,5,6,7,10,18 ,20 40:2,5,9,18 41:1,7,11,15,20

42:14 43:18 44:19 45:3 46:7,8,9,13,15,1 6 47:2 51:9 53:9 55:1 59:9,20 60:7,8,11,12,13, 14,17,19 65:13,17,19 66:8,10,21 67:1,3 68:3 69:7,9,14,21 70:12,19 71:9,11,15 72:1,2,9,18 73:8,9 74:2,8 79:13 81:21 86:5,6 88:12,21 89:4,7,13 90:4,15,18 91:2 96:1 103:4 104:4,5,9,16 106:1 109:5 110:1,4,5,21 113:14,19 114:3,11,15 115:14,18 125:16,17 126:2,3 132:22 135:15 145:1 146:10 147:1,5 150:9,21 151:1 154:8 155:5 158:16 161:5 163:9 168:4,8,11 171:16 172:13 179:8 182:15 language 30:19 32:17 33:14 36:9 large 19:3 66:15 117:12 122:16 132:11 134:10

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 24

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 larger 64:5 72:20 last18:21 19:21 24:1 30:16 45:21 46:15 56:16 76:19 78:20 84:6 89:14 172:10 lastly135:22 later 21:19 27:13 55:14 56:8 102:16 125:3 126:19 156:3 latest153:7 Laughter14:11 49:8 86:20 150:17 156:17 launch 26:4 law56:21 165:6 Lawrence 3:2 4:14,15,16,17 8:4,6 145:17 159:20 lay174:2 layer-based 66:14 layers 66:12 LBNL 30:7 64:8 86:12 129:5 148:2 LCC 151:8,14 152:1,3,7 154:19 161:12,19,20 169:10 lead 95:20 156:2 learn 20:20 learned 79:1 learning 137:21 least23:13 27:13 50:15 61:19 76:20 84:7 113:6,9,11 115:1,4,8 118:18 138:2 159:2 leave 176:19 leaving 176:7 LED 39:6 60:19 61:5 65:12,14,17,21 66:5 70:7 74:2 83:9,15 85:2,17,19 89:7 90:4 91:11 92:20 93:7,19 96:20 100:9 105:4 106:5 108:17 110:21 111:20 112:2 121:2,14 130:5,6 133:19 149:3 150:22 155:5 156:14 161:7 168:4,8 LEDs 18:14 32:6 52:11 60:20 64:6 68:10 84:5,13 86:7 88:10 92:21 99:3 105:15 121:13 128:20 129:1,2,8 131:17 133:13 135:18 137:18 166:8 legal21:16,18 25:7 179:15 legislation 33:20 legislative 14:7 30:19 less 21:9,10 25:21 43:22 71:17 79:21 113:20

130:7,9 lesser 119:2 lesson 79:1 let's 6:19 52:6 55:22 56:10 86:10 102:7 106:7 132:7 138:2 150:10 177:16 level61:1 79:20 116:13,14 121:10 127:20 160:5 levels 87:10 103:9 116:9,16,22 117:4 119:20 120:21 121:1,2,15 122:16 123:22 124:1 125:10,13 142:22 151:11 168:4 lie 73:3 lies 73:2 life 85:4 102:19 145:4 148:17 157:4,6 life-cycle 4:14 9:15 143:20 146:2 151:7 152:20 154:5 156:9,21 166:20 170:12 174:22 175:1 lifetime107:17 149:8 151:13 152:9,18 153:16,18 154:6 156:3 157:3,9 lifetimes 84:13 107:6 108:3 152:2 154:7 161:15 lifetime--which 85:8 light18:7,11,12 19:16 39:5,6 66:12 69:17 70:8 79:20 87:21 108:20 109:13 114:1 119:4 122:9,12 142:15 148:11 156:15 light-emitting 68:19 lighting 2:9,14,16 4:6,19 7:5,7,9,11,20,22 17:19 19:5,7,8 26:7 39:9,12 42:13 48:15 51:5 60:22 65:18 66:17 67:2 68:4 69:7,20,22 70:2 76:8,22 83:7 116:20 127:3 133:18,21 134:1,2,11 146:11,13 153:12 162:7 167:7 170:15 likelihood72:17 147:4 likely 25:7 54:1,7 73:3 76:11 85:18 86:2 167:7 limit 10:11 limited 27:16 66:19 167:2

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 25

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 line 16:20 134:3 linear 119:12 list42:4 78:3 98:20,22 99:3 100:21 133:4 181:6 listed 29:8 71:9 72:21 98:16,18 99:20 100:20 105:3,9 154:21 literally107:9 literature153:19 162:3 170:16 little 13:20 14:9 16:3 67:21 86:8 89:16 101:15 102:16 108:15 132:22 143:1 155:12,13 lived 84:18 158:15 lived--to 159:5 loan 156:12,15 located 148:16 location 87:16 88:9 104:12 109:18 lock25:14 logical111:21 long6:2 58:11 84:6 86:9 135:17 148:20 158:14 159:5 172:10 longer43:7 74:20 80:4 84:13 117:13 119:1 148:17 149:7 157:4 long-life 85:9 long-lived 158:13 loophole 22:9 51:12,14 loopholes 50:13,19 losses 75:6 lot18:3,9,18 20:13 38:11 43:15 46:5 50:22 51:15 52:1 61:4 71:22 78:5 79:20 90:14 91:10 94:15 95:5 106:3 107:21 115:11 120:3 143:2 148:22 149:5 150:2 164:19 lots 94:21 154:21 181:15 low26:1 50:7 128:10 136:18,19 150:6 177:8 178:20 lower23:1 79:20 134:14,17 lowest45:10 lowest-cost 43:19 LPW38:5,7 lucky52:22 Lucy2:4 4:6,19 8:14,18 11:2 27:1 47:6,7,8 54:20 78:16,18 79:9 95:11 97:14 141:14 179:18 181:1,12,16 lumen 34:16,20 39:22 69:11 72:2,5 73:8 114:12 119:4

120:8 lumen-based 120:13 lumens 6:1 28:1,4,5 30:17,22 31:9 32:19,21 33:1,5,7,9 34:2,6,9 35:3,5,7,12,17,2 1 36:14 37:14,19 44:10 46:6 53:22 63:8,11,12,14,1 5 64:2,5 72:2 114:12 117:9 118:11,13 120:5 122:9 luminaire 82:22 178:11 luminaries 76:12 lunch 9:16,17 101:12 Lutron 2:15 52:22 128:17 137:14 150:14 163:6 171:4 M machine 102:1 main 66:11 87:3 mainly161:16 maintained 40:10 maintenance 153:10,11 161:18 major60:22 majority 49:20 91:7 105:10 manage 49:4

management 99:5 manager4:6,19 5:14 7:1,19 managers 156:11 manufacture 81:10 141:12 manufactured 107:11 manufacturer 13:13 50:20 53:3 102:20 136:7 141:8 143:6 173:10,11,14 174:7,15 manufacturers 6:6 17:10 20:6,16 25:10,21 26:15 27:20 28:20 47:18 48:13,20,21 49:10,12,17 50:6 52:3,9,16 71:8 75:14 90:17 94:13 116:18 119:8,11 120:2 131:10,14,18 138:14 140:16 143:7 173:13 174:1,11 178:11 manufacturer's 126:17 138:10 Manufacturers 2:7,15 7:2 73:17 manufacturing 137:22 140:22 173:17 March 40:11

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 26

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 47:11 market 4:9 9:10 17:11 18:6 22:2,5 23:18 25:4,5 30:22 31:18 45:10 46:11 49:18 50:11,17,21 52:7 53:21 56:22 60:19,21 63:7,10 64:6,7 69:18 71:8,14,15 76:3,17 80:20,22 81:4,14,20 82:5,7 83:8,12 86:4,22 87:4 90:2 94:22 105:2,3,16 120:7 121:10 122:16 123:15 129:2 133:15 136:5 138:19,21 141:12 142:18,20 145:3 146:13 150:11 162:10 166:9 marketed43:20 46:9 52:3 70:13 72:3 79:15 142:15 marketing119:14 marketplace 23:22 62:12 market's 165:19 mark-ups 126:18,21 mass 81:12 132:20 134:10 Massachusetts 48:3 massive 119:13 177:7 match 92:11 material 66:13 materials 9:8 matter 9:6 13:8 143:8 Maureen 3:6 4:7,8,9,10 8:10 29:14 38:21 95:12 97:15,16 Max37:18 38:4 99:12 116:14 121:10 maxed 75:15 maximum 72:5 103:10 may23:17 37:9 51:4 71:22 75:19 76:11 94:14,22 95:14,20 97:9 119:3 120:10 133:6 144:10 146:10,16 147:16 152:6 153:21 166:15 173:15 177:18 maybe 16:20 93:14 96:4 100:16 109:1 110:8 118:20 144:11 157:14 mcdonald 8:8 31:6,12 57:11,15 58:12 106:8 112:10 125:14,21 126:15 127:8 130:19 131:4 137:1,9 140:19 McDonald 3:6 8:8

31:6 57:11 106:8 112:10 125:14 137:2 mcgaraghan 7:17 29:17 45:13 53:7 63:20 88:19 96:9,11,20 97:1 100:13 109:20 110:12 111:13,18 116:1 118:9 124:21 125:18 126:5 127:4 130:13 131:2,5,19 135:5 136:22 137:6,12 139:6 140:2,6 141:4 McGaraghan 2:13 7:17 29:17 45:13 53:7 63:20 88:19 100:13 109:20 116:1 118:9 124:21 130:13 135:5 139:6 mcgowan 7:21 26:6 133:11 178:10 McGowan 2:14 7:21 26:6 178:10 mean 20:21 31:7 37:3 47:20 59:19 62:16 82:19 85:7 95:4 110:13 111:10 115:11 120:22 126:11 133:22 140:10 142:13 157:15,22 159:3 meaning 81:11 95:3 112:1

means 29:3 31:17 37:3 89:21 95:6 101:13 110:2 158:15,16 meant13:10 measure 19:3 measurement 80:2 measures 98:12 mechanisms 181:5 medium 39:21 41:12 69:11 96:1 106:2 128:10 136:18,19 168:13 medium-base 41:17,18,21,22 42:1,3,8 74:2 97:8 medium-based 28:8 32:20 41:14 meet22:1 41:17 69:14 70:12 140:13 meeting 1:4 5:5,17 6:3 10:8,17 11:7,10,11,13 13:15 21:4 178:12 181:14 182:13 meets 113:12 member 52:18 members 13:13 26:12 49:2 71:5 82:4 133:19

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 27

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 mental15:9 mention 12:8 44:17 112:11 mentioned 27:5 40:7 47:9 56:6 57:16,19 94:4 95:18,22 103:18 127:17 130:5 132:9 135:7 140:11 145:19 154:4 mentioning 132:16 mentions 59:12 merchants 132:20 134:10 mercury48:4 70:9,12 71:11,13,16 72:22 175:17 merits 51:13 metering 91:20 method 80:10 94:12 139:9 methodologies 143:11 methodology 23:19 103:1 114:18 116:22 124:7,14 125:1 128:15,20 129:1 134:6 135:3 137:17,19 138:3 139:7,14 146:5,20 147:4 160:8 169:5 171:1 methods 80:13 129:10 160:13 metric 116:3 metrics 179:7 MIA173:12 174:3,13 175:12 Michael2:13 microphone 6:16 15:18 48:10 55:16 168:6 microphones 10:13 mid 9:11 midday9:16 Mike 7:17 29:16,17 45:12,13 46:19 53:6,7 63:19,20 73:5 88:18,19 96:10,19 100:12,13 109:19,20 111:13 115:22 116:1 118:8,9 124:20,21 130:12,13 135:5 137:16 138:4 139:5,6 milligrams 71:12 million 76:6 82:15 mind 16:6 123:11 145:5 mindful13:2 minimum 27:22 30:17 31:2,15 34:6 38:1 122:11 minor75:20,21 76:17 minutes 79:19 80:3 miscalculation 156:3 mis-incentive

118:22 missed 171:4 misunderstandin g36:4 mode 10:11 model53:20 64:3,7 143:14 160:19 163:7,9,12,16 170:20 171:11 172:20 173:20 174:9 modeling 83:13 143:16 models 169:8 modified 23:1,4 modify60:10 moment152:16 161:2 171:19 monetary175:18 monetizing 180:4 money18:9 43:15 monitor 54:6 monitoring 54:9 month 77:11,16 months 25:11 91:18 92:13,15 182:5 morning 5:4,11 9:11 38:20 52:21 180:6 mostly10:20 mother's 76:9 motivation 25:21 motors 77:11 mounted 70:7 move 21:11 25:22 64:19 65:10 96:8 98:10 127:16 142:8 161:9 180:11 moved 26:9 moving 9:10 73:13 98:9 102:12 113:2 123:20 143:20 168:20 173:3 176:15 MSP 126:17,20 multi-family 107:11 multipack 129:19,21 multiple 114:2 145:1 multiplying64:1 146:7 mute 10:19 N Nachtrieb 2:15 52:21,22 86:17 128:17 137:14 147:3 150:14,18 156:7,18 163:6,15,19 164:2 171:3 172:5 national2:7,10,15 3:2 4:16 7:1,12 8:5,7 9:18 102:20 145:17 146:3 148:3 159:17,20,22 160:6 168:21,22 169:1,2,6,15,18 170:3,8 175:2

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 28

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 nationally75:21 naturally161:9 nature 133:4 Navigant3:4 4:7,8,9,10,12,13 ,18 8:8,10,12 38:21 102:12 123:10 173:7 NDAs 132:1 necessarily15:5 78:8 90:16,19 100:10 105:16 139:10 140:3,7 141:13 143:17 necessary40:17 74:10 81:14 NEEA106:19 176:11 negotiated 6:6,12 negotiating 33:6 negotiation 33:19 negotiations 33:14 neither 93:1 183:8 NEMA13:12,13 14:21 16:7 17:16 30:13 46:21,22 47:10,13 48:12,13,16,20, 22 49:10,14,17 50:6 51:21 52:12,15,18 53:3 59:6,7 66:1 67:17 71:1 74:15 82:3 84:1 100:3 104:19 105:7 150:18,21 NEMS 170:18 NES 172:20 net169:2 170:4 173:21 news 18:15,20 NIA172:20 nice 26:21 niche 22:2 25:22 43:15 76:3 night19:21 46:15 70:8 nitrogen 175:16,19 Noah 2:10 4:5 7:12 24:20,21 33:16,17 42:19 44:16 45:4,15 46:3 49:22 51:17,18 53:1 64:19 68:5 71:19,20 75:1 79:9,10 83:5,6 92:18 93:17 112:15 113:16,17 119:21 122:5,6 129:14,15 133:9 134:4,5 141:5,22 149:21 157:1,2 158:13 179:1,3 180:11,12 Noah's 72:16 Nobody83:19 noise 123:5 non 91:4 105:4 106:15 124:5 non-CFL 179:8 non-dimmable 104:4,22 105:20 106:14 none 10:3 non-NEMA48:21 49:12 non-regulatory 175:22nonrepresentative 103:12 noon 9:17 NOPR 4:17 9:19 77:12,17 173:3,9 174:14,21 nor183:8 normally12:12 North 2:8 Northwest2:18 91:15 92:3 109:1,3 note 26:22 54:5,8 101:9,15 106:20 175:10 noted 20:9 93:4 Nothing66:5 168:19 181:2 not--I 105:5 notice 40:13 180:22 181:10 noticeable 76:17 noting151:21 notion 122:12 November 28:18 NPV172:20 NRDC 7:13 24:21 33:17 51:18 71:20 79:10 83:6 113:17 122:6 129:15 134:5 157:2 179:3 180:12

NRDC--there 150:1 number's 150:6 O O&M 170:13 objective 63:13 obliged 78:15 150:15 observation 105:8 142:9 observations 90:12 106:22 obtain 131:9 173:22 obvious 14:18 83:7 155:4 obviously5:21 15:11 19:19 47:3 53:10 59:21 90:7 96:13 105:1 occur34:18 161:8 occurred 114:21 occurs 115:10 138:7 offer15:6 28:22 offered 88:11 offerings 105:14 office 82:4 off-market50:9 oftentimes 126:16 of--you 110:3 Oh 96:10 119:21 125:21 133:9 144:1,4

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 29

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 okay6:17 8:16,18 11:4 15:16 16:14 24:18 26:4,22 27:2 34:22 36:3 38:14,18 44:6,15 45:11 48:6 49:22 51:17 55:6 58:20 59:10,17 61:7 62:5,9,22 63:3 65:10,12 66:7,8 68:1,16,22 69:4 73:5,13,14 80:18,19 83:22 86:16,21 87:2,3 94:5 96:7,22 98:6,9,10 100:12 101:5,12 102:7,9 108:13 109:15 110:12 112:15 113:1,2,3 114:4 115:20,21 116:5,6 117:15 120:15 121:19 122:3 123:20,21 124:11 125:18 127:10,15,16 131:2 134:20 137:12 138:4,15 139:4,5 141:4 142:7 145:13 149:21 151:4 155:9 158:6 159:14,15 168:14,19,20 172:17 173:1,6 176:9 177:3 180:2,5 181:12,19 old18:21 43:20,22 OLED 39:7 66:8,10,21 67:1,18 68:3,13,18,21 74:8 OLEDs 66:11,18 67:10 68:9,10,11 ones 58:10 73:4 113:22 132:13 one's 77:9 onesie 129:19 134:16 on--if 155:14 open 45:17 105:17 110:15 162:4 open--I 110:13 opening4:4 9:5 13:7 56:5 openness 179:7 operate 39:22 69:12 operated 145:21 operating 98:21 107:14 146:8,9,22 148:22 149:7,8 151:15 161:18 operation 153:17 opinions 147:17 opportunity6:8,9 9:4,20 13:7 22:9 73:1,3 154:16 180:7 optics 99:5 option 34:20 37:7,9 45:10 98:18 options 17:22 18:13 37:8,10 38:3 81:2,5 83:20

98:11,12,14,16, 20,22 99:3,6,8,9,15,16 ,19,22 100:5,15 103:7 116:11 157:15 order29:10 51:10 176:17 organic 39:6 68:19 organizational 6:20 organized 98:17 oriented 134:1 original32:16 43:12 63:6 177:20 Osram 2:8 7:3 others 24:16 50:22 108:5 110:10 120:3 149:19 152:20 158:10 otherwise 123:5 outcomes 20:19 outdated 57:7 outer111:5 outlet129:18 outliers 123:12 Outlook153:8 161:13 output39:22 69:12 72:5 79:20 114:1,12 119:4 122:9,12 outputs 130:21 169:10 170:11 outset13:7,8 15:17 17:4 24:19 37:4 51:6 outside 75:9 144:9 overall170:22 overview4:6 9:3 11:3 27:3 29:13 owes 14:22 Owned2:13 7:18 oxide 175:16,19 P p.m 182:12 pack 45:2,7 package 44:19 99:4 120:8 packaging 44:18 53:2 packet8:20 9:1 10:4 page 4:1 10:4 15:2,10 31:5 pairs 76:21 pans 146:8 parameters 57:6 58:5,6 152:11,18 pardon 50:2 68:7 133:9 144:1 parse 92:10 parte 77:3 123:3 participants 2:6 10:15 11:6,19 participate35:15 48:13,20,21 49:11 participates 49:3 participating

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 30

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 49:12 particular 17:10 19:11 22:2 67:19 72:8 79:14 88:8 90:20 95:3 104:8 131:17 133:8 146:21 160:18,21 162:8 166:7 particularly46:10 84:17 93:13 95:7 117:1 133:13 156:10 parties 183:9 pass 99:8 143:21 passed 17:7 past49:6 120:11 129:10 150:19 164:11 pasted 80:8 pattern 142:14 patterns 54:3 pay151:19 158:21 payback146:3 151:8,18 154:20 paybacks 157:9 paying51:1 peek142:8 168:14 peers 75:5 people 30:18 71:10 76:18 84:8,22 129:16 147:5 148:17 people's 108:18 109:13 147:16 per6:1 28:1,4,5 30:17,22 31:9 32:19,21 33:1,5,7,10 34:2,7,9,16,20 35:3,5,7,13,17,2 1 36:14 37:14,19 44:19 53:22 63:8,11,12,14,1 6 64:2,5 128:19 134:8 169:11 percent82:7 89:19 106:5 107:9,13 114:14 134:13 150:4 152:12 170:5,6 percentage 49:20 148:9 157:18 perform 75:18 82:20 performance 80:7 87:9 179:6 perhaps 21:19 44:19 105:22 111:20 115:12 119:16 148:15 149:8 164:18 166:17 period 13:18 15:21 17:8 70:4 146:3 151:8,18 154:3,11,20 160:10 162:7 169:4,9,14 170:7 periods 148:20 perishable 108:9 personal85:3 105:8 personal--I 105:7 Personally 155:4 perspective21:20 45:15 63:21 151:12

phase 17:12 25:1,15 46:10 53:8,14 95:9 118:16 164:13 174:3,5,8,10,14 phased 165:13 phase-in 17:7 27:18 phases 174:3,13 Philips 2:8 7:5 52:2 110:20 117:6 122:8 148:7 155:1 166:5 177:12 phone 2:18 13:11 95:17 121:5,10,12,18 144:8 145:3,6,8,11 phones 10:11,18 phosphor89:9 phosphors 99:1 physical143:17 pick46:17 60:5 102:9 115:6 pin 42:17 65:3 pin-base 41:13,15 42:10,13 74:5 82:15 pin-based 42:9 65:1 75:3,8,14 76:5,9,10,13,16 82:13,18 83:1 90:14 91:2 155:15 156:4 pin-bases 65:2 pins 75:9 Pistor 2:15 places 92:12 142:19 plan 101:12 140:14 147:3 148:13 163:10,15 170:20 planning 40:18 98:14 153:7 plans 23:4 56:6 103:1 113:9,11 114:11,15 124:3 128:2,8 153:18 173:8,19,22 174:2,8,10 plant178:22 plastic 101:15 play22:5 84:17 166:21 please 6:21 10:4,5,9,13 16:6 29:16 36:6 48:9 52:20 78:18 101:14 102:8 119:21 120:17 138:15 144:3 168:6 plug155:20 plus 151:15 point11:2 12:20 13:4 24:1 25:2 30:16 31:13 35:8,11 45:5 51:4,19 62:3 72:16 76:5,20 78:15,20 84:16 88:2 94:7 96:15 106:12 108:2 112:9 119:17,20 120:1,6 123:3 126:16 127:6 136:11 137:4,15

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 31

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 144:6 149:12 153:9 158:9,13 159:10 165:11 180:9 pointed 75:1 108:5 pointing 159:4 points 15:20 79:12 93:17 103:5 119:9,13 134:15 152:22 popular106:16 popularity84:14 106:12 population 92:8 portion 19:6 49:18 50:10 51:6,15 position 14:14 35:2 43:5 62:17 78:9 positions 34:2 positive 18:18 possibilities 30:9 possibility176:22 possible 13:22 75:17 81:11 82:5,10 94:20 157:7 potential5:20 6:6 21:10 22:8,9 50:13,17 54:8 86:5 118:2 142:21 145:22 157:9 160:6 169:3 174:18 175:3,6,10,17,1 9 180:14 potentially51:10 117:20 121:3 123:14

potentially--on 51:13 power24:10 58:7,21 79:16,21 108:22 146:6 170:2 175:15 176:16,17 177:8,14,18,19 178:13,16,20 179:9 PowerPoint9:1 practicability 81:10 82:14 practically172:10 pre 28:16 precisely56:19 precluded 59:19 preliminary97:21 99:15 100:20 104:1 160:22 174:5,7 prelude 160:5 premature 21:14 22:15 43:3 prematurely 25:13 44:12 prepare 174:8 present11:14 12:11 64:21 154:10 169:2 170:4 173:21 presentation 9:8 12:5 38:16 59:14 presented 124:14 presenting 29:15 54:17 press 101:11

press--but 18:16 pressure 46:11 50:22 53:17 147:7 pressures 138:1 presume 157:14 pretty64:3 71:16 85:8 106:22 108:8 150:12 165:18 181:21 prevent37:20 preventing 20:10 prevention 51:12 previous 45:1 71:2 100:3 118:1 126:1 127:1,2 129:6 136:16 154:4 157:11 164:7 previously40:7 52:9 price 4:12 9:14 23:15,21 83:10 84:14 102:15,18 125:4,6,7,11 126:17,22 127:17,18,20,21 128:12 129:16 130:14,18,22 131:2,15 134:8,14 136:12,21 138:2,8,10 139:9 140:14,21 141:9,10 144:7,11,12 145:3 151:15 152:19 156:20 158:21 160:12,14 161:6,12,22

162:14 168:15 170:10,13 price--in 125:7 prices 125:5,13 126:4 127:22 128:5,11,13,19 129:1,12,13 130:16 132:1 136:4,8,10,13,1 4,19 137:4,5,7,11,18 139:14,21 140:9 142:4 144:15 153:6,8 161:17 163:8 166:7 pricing 113:22 127:5,7 128:15 134:6 135:3 141:21 142:13 167:8 primary69:22 169:20 print13:10 prior79:5 158:7 179:4 private 51:22 52:4 probability 152:10 probably21:18 33:7 37:3 49:5 53:10 54:7,10,16 84:11 90:4,21 105:9 106:16 111:21 114:3 115:3 122:16 129:5 147:14 164:12 problem 54:18 problems 26:14

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 32

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 procedural11:14 procedure 4:8 74:3,10,20 75:11 77:7,16,21,22 79:7,11 procedures 9:9 73:15,16,18,22 74:1,5,12 76:4,19 77:1 78:5,20 79:3,5 proceed 55:2 proceeding 183:3,4,5,8,9,11 proceeds 51:20 process 20:22 30:8 35:15,19 37:13 54:14,15 64:14 118:22 137:22 152:4 processes 16:9,13 procurement 128:5 132:10 produce 36:17 69:16 141:2 170:2 produced 119:13 product4:12 6:7 9:13 22:17,18,20 23:15,20 30:20 31:3,20 43:11,16 45:6 61:3 63:15 76:14 77:15 81:1,19 84:20 85:9 87:5,8,13,14 88:4,7,20 89:11 90:12 91:8 93:11 94:9,19 96:4,14,21 97:5,18 102:15 103:3,4,12,13,1 7,19,20 105:14 107:3,17,19 108:16 109:17 110:17 111:12 112:14 113:5,7 116:13 118:12 123:22 124:2 125:7,11 127:17,18,21 130:16,21 134:3,8 135:10 144:9,15 151:21 152:5 153:16 154:6,15 157:3 160:4 162:19 176:22 179:5 production 81:12 productive 6:3 181:14 products 20:8 31:8,17 35:17 44:13 46:2,5 48:15 50:8 51:4 60:20 63:8,11 72:22 73:17,20,22 76:7,13 78:4 79:5,15 81:13 83:1,19 85:19 87:7 90:7 94:21 96:6 98:13 99:11 104:2,3,8,21 105:2,9 106:13,14 107:4 108:4 110:3 113:8,10 118:18,19 119:2 120:7 121:16 123:9 124:4,5 127:3 128:4 130:16

132:17,18 133:2,6,12,20 134:2 139:10,15,16,22 140:7,9 141:2 142:22 143:17 148:18 149:5 159:6 160:4,14 176:3,15,16 178:15 product's 152:9 Products 140:2 profile 174:4 profit45:8 profitable 133:20 program 5:14 7:16 14:18 41:1 programs 163:4 168:2 prohibited 61:20 project2:13 4:6,19 48:12 50:5 128:22 160:3,19 166:11 projected 29:4 161:6 169:1 projecting 160:10 projection 129:13 171:17 promised 180:6 proportion 145:10 proposals 59:8 propose 41:10 65:15 proposed 21:5 29:1 41:19 42:11 56:15 115:16 146:5

169:17 proposing 28:11 69:13 136:2 144:10 160:7 proprietary 124:15 127:11 Protection 2:11 7:15 prototype 81:9 prototypes 140:11,13 provide 11:20,22 15:8,14 28:3 32:11 49:21 70:1,8 74:16 82:4 89:1 98:3 105:17 122:1 127:19 143:4 167:5,8,13 180:16 provided 15:1 53:2 104:11 116:20 136:14 150:19 provides 70:3 78:4,7 145:6 provision 24:6 56:14 provisions 32:12 public 1:4 2:2 5:5 11:12 64:14 131:20 154:2 157:20 182:12 publication 181:8 publicly131:7,11 174:6 publish 27:10 28:16 131:7 132:1

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 33

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 published 27:8 28:12 40:13 128:18 153:19 162:3 170:16 pull14:1 168:5 pulling 128:5 purchase 129:18 154:15 155:18 156:20 purchases 120:13 purpose 11:12,13 42:2 80:22 120:11 145:20 160:2 168:21 173:11 Pursuant69:5 pursues 51:11 pursuing 76:22 puts 20:3 108:19 putting 90:8 129:12 Q qualify90:4 qualitatively 159:3 174:12 qualities 145:12 quality24:8,10 56:7,18 57:3,6,9,12,16 58:17,18,22 145:5 quantify73:19 quantitatively 174:12 quarter43:18 45:6 141:10 167:10,14 quarterly167:5 question 10:22 24:11 29:22 31:11 32:13 37:4 47:18,21 48:18 56:11 57:8 58:8 60:5 62:7 64:15 71:9 79:22 83:17 89:7 92:19 93:10 95:20 109:21 120:20 121:7 129:6 138:5,17 139:21 148:8 171:10,11 176:12 177:2 179:3,6 question--and 68:6 questionnaire 174:10 questions 10:1 11:8 23:14 29:19 55:20 56:6 89:3 91:17 94:13,16 104:14 163:14 queue 93:22 120:17 144:2 quick51:19 155:2 168:14 quickly43:1 78:5 101:22 167:4 quite 109:22 150:6 158:22 R race 71:11 radically 108:7 raise 9:21 10:19 180:8 raised 95:16 120:16 168:12 182:2 ramping 166:9 range 39:22 69:12 72:5 83:20 103:9 128:8 Ranier2:16 7:8 rapid 24:9 58:2 rate 135:12 152:19 153:5 154:9,12 170:14 171:15 rates 161:7 170:6 rather15:5 66:15 80:4 145:11 rationality166:21 reach 158:17 reacting 165:20 reading 14:19 17:2 88:20 173:4 ready82:18 96:8 real20:19 123:16 142:3 178:7 realization 84:3 realize 106:9 really17:11 18:2,15 19:7 25:15 43:9 44:20 45:18 46:10 64:10 65:5 76:3 95:22 111:20 112:3 115:13 138:8 144:7,13 164:10 166:15,18 177:7 178:21 reason 22:19 35:4,10,11 reasonable 83:1

84:8 reasons 46:3 66:11 96:17 137:2 138:1 Rebecca 2:16 7:8 rebound 147:11 148:2 received 8:21 67:7 recent120:4 recently 133:16 150:22 Recessed 150:7 recognition 18:18 recognize 17:6,9,15 75:11 82:6 recognized 10:19 recommend 123:12 135:17 recommendation 159:1 recommendations 59:8 record 10:6 38:11 66:1 74:18 77:3 78:14 163:15 183:7 recorded 183:4 recycle 153:21 157:21 158:3 recycled 157:19 recycling 153:22 reduce 20:12 85:1 176:2 reduced 147:7 183:5 reducing 86:4

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 34

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 99:7 reduction 84:14 175:15,18 reference 75:12 103:5 referenced53:8 references 42:3 referred 147:10 157:5 referring93:18 reflect 57:4 reflected109:14 reflector39:16 40:4 60:17,19 125:17 126:3 150:8 reflects 151:12 refrigerators 107:5 regard 139:1 regarding 6:6 11:5 15:15 71:5,12 76:2,19 78:9 82:5 83:3 124:19 154:3 regardless 45:1 52:16 69:16 regards 71:21 Register 181:7 regulated 62:14 regulation 115:3 regulations.gov 12:15 regulatory 7:1 27:4 124:17 127:11 173:17,20 175:21 180:4 reiterate29:19

45:14 71:2 122:7 reiterating71:21 relate 60:10 related 60:20 68:5 76:21 87:9 183:8 relation 31:16 Relations 7:20 relationship 102:17 125:3 127:19 130:17 137:10 relative 18:2 134:9 156:19 162:21 released 19:21 77:16 168:10 relevant124:15 128:3 141:11 reliable 81:12 relook115:16 remain 172:1 remainder 156:20 remarks 4:18 5:12 9:5,19 13:7 181:17 remote 89:9 removing 85:20 repair 153:10 repeat65:22 125:19 rephrase 109:21 121:7 replace 148:19 155:7 158:18 replaced 18:12

replacement76:6 114:8 119:10 121:14 155:16 161:5 replacements 70:14 158:18 replacing 111:9 149:1 report92:14 169:15,18 170:3 Reported 1:14 Reporter 6:15 55:15 57:13 168:5 183:1,2,16 reporting 1:15 47:1 reports 178:19 represent 49:17 82:7 116:15 representative 103:3,4,17,20 104:7 107:3 113:4,7 124:2,4,5 127:22 139:20 REPRESENTAT IVES 2:3 represented 142:22 request13:17 14:2 104:8 124:13 131:11,18,22 163:1 174:17 180:18 requesting 113:13 117:2 174:15 180:13 requests 114:17

124:6,12,16 131:13 146:21 require 87:9 155:18 required 43:13 54:6 56:13 151:19 requirement 34:5,14 37:18 44:17 requirements 28:7 80:7 178:12 requires 28:2 research 104:1 136:4 residential 19:1,6,7 51:7,16 146:11,15 153:3 156:14 157:16,18 178:14,15 resistant 46:8 resources 2:10 7:13 140:17 respect14:5,12 16:17 56:7 respond 48:14 60:2 67:7 78:19 180:20 respond--oh 78:17 response 10:2 38:17 65:9 66:6 69:3 80:17 87:1 98:8 101:4 124:9 127:13 151:6 159:13 168:18 172:22

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 35

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 180:1 responses 100:6 responsibility 46:22 rest21:4 28:20 restrict 14:15 restricted45:2 restriction 14:20 restrictive 17:2 restricts 40:21 44:18 result18:22 19:3 21:9 64:6 97:6 129:3 175:6 resulted 14:19 resulting 175:8 results 47:10 87:4 102:18 103:11 resume 101:13 102:3,4,7 retail126:21 129:17 130:2 132:19 133:22 136:13 137:5,7,11 138:11,12 140:21 141:8 142:3 167:6 retailer 60:22 retailers 25:10 26:15 50:16 128:8 133:13,15 134:10 141:9 158:1 retailers--if 132:12 retired 153:17 retrofit 76:9 82:21 retrospectively 54:3 return 9:7,17 38:15,19 returning 9:12 reveals 76:1 review4:3 8:19 9:2 13:2 24:5 27:9 28:8,15,22 56:13 reviewed 40:11 reviewing 71:5 revision 24:7 56:15 revisiting100:6 rider2:17 19:17,20 20:10,21 59:12,19 62:21 94:17 95:15,18,19 120:16,18 121:8,21 122:3 144:1,4,5,19,21 rider--and 20:18 rider's 59:13 risk20:3 22:8 50:12 83:7 Rob 155:10 Robert2:15 3:5 52:21 86:16 128:16,17 137:13,14 147:2 150:13,14 156:6 163:5,6 171:2,3 172:3 robust94:10 95:7 role 22:5 room 10:21 18:4 46:15 77:10 91:21 92:1 97:12 101:13 rough 22:4 40:4 roughly25:4 44:11 round90:9 row19:2 rule 5:22 27:10 28:2,7 29:2 31:18 34:19 44:12 56:15,16 77:2,20 93:6 105:10 164:7 rule--just 5:19 rulemaking 6:7,12 11:18 12:3 14:6,13,21 19:13 20:12,22 22:11 23:11 27:7,11 28:10 29:13,20 30:3,8 32:14 35:7,15,19 36:16 37:13 38:3 39:1 40:19 41:5,20 42:12 43:6,13 53:11,15 54:13,15,22 55:3 59:20 60:17 61:6,10 63:13 64:10,11 65:16 66:11 67:4,19 69:15 70:21 74:3,9,13,21 77:1 81:22 95:10 96:1 104:10 114:21 118:1,7 124:16 126:1 131:16,21 154:8 155:16

160:18 161:1 162:20 164:6,9,11,16,1 8,21 165:6,9 166:7 173:9 176:3 rulemakings 76:20,21 100:4 117:18,19 126:1 127:2 129:11 133:5 160:9,16 164:17 166:17 rules 10:5 78:13 run 77:2 78:11 152:12 running78:20 runs 82:15 S S.W1:9 Safe 182:11 safety81:17 Safeway134:16 sale 44:18 46:6 79:14 sales 22:13 26:1 40:11,12 43:8 45:20 47:2 51:19,21 52:10 54:1,3 72:7,18 83:9,15,16,17 107:16 109:9 134:9 167:6 171:17 sample 80:6,9,12 samples 80:11 San 43:12 satisfaction 32:13

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 36

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 satisfy39:8 69:7 satisfying 28:7 save 18:14 34:15 saved 170:3 178:2,3 saving18:9 23:13 savings 5:20 20:3 21:22 22:7 28:3,4 29:21 30:1 33:4,11 35:20 36:12,17 51:10 63:14,22 75:16 107:14,15 145:22 151:19 169:1,15,18,20, 21,22 170:21 saw17:20 says--the 36:9 scale 81:14 89:17 141:3 scales 103:11 scaling 124:1,3,7,8 scenario 53:13 64:3 76:11 166:17 scenarios 166:18 167:19 schedule 28:11 schedules 131:15 scope 4:7 5:19 9:8 14:6,13,20 27:16 29:14 30:21 31:17 38:22 41:19 42:22 69:15 70:20 72:11 74:8 95:1 104:9 121:5 screen 81:5

screened 140:4 screening 4:10 9:10 80:21 81:4 99:9,19,21 103:8 114:10 140:12,13 screw39:21 64:22 106:2 168:13 screw-base 41:12 69:11 96:1 screw-based 76:7,14 82:21 scrutinized 137:21 scrutiny138:3 seats 102:8 second 34:13 52:8 58:18 66:18 70:8 85:8 87:18 172:16 174:13 180:3 Secondly21:13 80:6 seconds 80:2 Secretary 39:8 section 41:2 49:4,7 125:4,8 127:7 sector 19:2 107:12 175:15 sector--we 107:11 sector--with 158:20 seeing 10:3 18:18 71:13 76:1 83:2,9 84:12 118:17 120:6 126:12 141:12 seek148:17

162:17 seeking 119:3 seem 91:9 seems 22:18 38:6,9 128:21 150:1 171:21 seen 18:5 25:4,15 45:16 62:15 72:2 90:3,4 117:17,19 see--yes 26:5 select108:12 113:9,11 114:7,15 selecting113:4 selection 152:4 selects 103:3 self 88:11 91:10 self-ballasted 41:11,14 70:9,11 75:5,7 87:17 89:5 92:22 99:2 104:2 sell21:21 47:19 133:20 134:1 141:10 selling 48:8 61:2 126:17 sells 17:19 semiconductor 66:13 send51:12 67:13 181:9 sending 44:13 sense 20:2 35:22 37:6 38:6 51:5,11 57:2 63:17 90:14

91:8,10 111:22 117:14 165:19 sensibility71:10 sent109:1,7 separate 60:18 64:13 87:12,14 88:4 Separation 164:17 September 168:11 series 169:6 serve 6:11 42:13 65:17 67:2 68:4 69:20 81:14 served 39:9 69:8 120:10 service 1:6 5:7,17 11:16 15:3 22:4 39:2,4,5,10,14,1 5,17,21 40:4 41:5 42:5 43:13,18 46:16 60:7,11,12,13 65:12,14,21 69:10 70:10 76:8 81:11 100:4 125:16 126:2 132:22 135:15 146:10 150:5 153:18 172:9 182:14 servicing 81:13 sets 73:14 setting 67:9 88:14 122:11 153:3 seven 119:12 several14:16 21:20 29:7 39:2 40:2,22 42:4

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 37

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 57:5 severely 173:15 shape 39:13 87:21 shapes 40:5 66:16 share 10:9 30:22 31:19 32:17 50:21 52:7 60:19,21 64:6 71:14,16 82:5 105:16 133:14 163:20 shares 81:21 shatter 46:7 shelf 25:11 45:16 shelves 47:15 140:8 Sher2:5 8:2 32:9 59:15,18 61:7,11,18,20 62:5,9,19,22 67:6 121:6,19 122:4 shift120:13 161:7 177:7 shifting 108:3 167:4 shifts 175:9 shipment103:22 104:8,16 107:1 108:1,11 163:17 shipments 4:15 9:18 81:19 86:14,18 108:15 129:11 135:14,15 159:17,22 160:2,3,8,10,19 161:11,22 162:13,18 163:3,7,11 167:20 168:16 169:4,8,12 170:9,10 171:13,14 shipped 150:20 shop 18:21 101:20 shopping120:5 short85:8 172:11 shorter 80:4 84:17 showrooms 133:18,21,22 shows 83:3 98:14 102:22 sidebar10:11 signed 181:10 signed--as 181:10 significant 5:21 40:15 51:15 52:7 75:22 152:2 significantly 72:20 Silent10:11 similar 23:16 126:3 129:8,10 155:12,13 161:2 Similarly72:9 simple 123:7 171:16 simply35:16 117:9 123:10 simulation 152:11 single 62:15 129:22 single-family 107:10,12 sit57:13 site 169:20 170:17

sitting 53:1 situation 89:17 six24:4 56:16 91:18 92:13,15 182:5 sixth 165:15 size44:18 45:2,7 80:6,9,12 skidded 55:13 skipped 132:3 SKU167:6 slide 28:10 29:9 30:16 56:3 59:2,12 79:4 98:14 102:22 124:11 127:8 136:16 154:4,18 157:12 158:7 180:3 slides 9:1,3,4 11:3 55:12,17,21 95:21 101:10 176:4 slightly34:10 slowly135:16 small26:13 52:9 71:18 150:12 174:17 smaller 96:3 smooth 21:7 122:13,15 snapshot83:12 128:21 socket32:20 33:4 76:10 82:22 84:18 85:6,21 86:7 91:21 109:10 socketed 156:5

sockets 33:2 64:1 82:16 85:20 86:9 91:21 106:1 107:9,10,15 148:20 149:6 150:3,5 171:8,10,12,13, 15,20 172:16 sold 28:6 32:3 34:8 45:6 48:3 50:8 51:15 52:1 72:1 86:4,6 134:14,16 143:1 solution 20:14 solutions 2:2 20:15,16 somebody30:4,5 134:13 somehow145:9 159:2,7 someone 32:16 138:9 158:21 sometime 91:18 somewhat93:5 sooner15:12 so--or97:20 sorry78:17 125:20 131:1 155:10 171:4 sort34:17 44:13 50:15 86:7 89:8,17 91:16 130:17 136:11 146:18 157:20 164:20 sorts 92:6 sounds 55:7 148:15 149:4

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 38

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 source 33:8 87:21 146:16 157:20 170:17 sources 66:12 146:10 154:2 space 38:7,8 45:16 96:5 speak10:5,7,19 14:2 30:5 95:17 120:17 131:14 144:3 speaking 13:12 spec--I 86:1 special41:22 specialty 25:18 specific 39:22 57:17 97:22 98:18 116:11 specifically41:2 42:3 89:3 128:4 135:11,18,19 151:14 specification 57:4 58:22 168:10 specifications 56:7,18 57:3,9,16,19 58:1,2,5,17,19 70:13 specificity89:20 Specifics 134:22 specifies 39:11 spectrum 23:1,5 speculate 49:17 spelled 58:6 spent120:3 spike 45:20 spiral70:7 87:22 112:1,2 split90:21 spoke 42:21 spread 38:2 92:7 spreadsheet 163:22 170:20 stage 30:10 97:20 173:9 181:16 staging 166:1 stakeholder162:2 stakeholders 14:21,22 28:21 59:22 83:21 141:20 162:5 179:12 182:1 standard 21:6 23:2,12 24:3,8,12 27:22 28:2,4,5 29:11 30:17 31:8,16 33:3,10 34:6,8,15,16 35:13,21 37:14 39:19 43:16 56:17 60:10 61:14,17 62:16 63:9,15 64:4 68:11 75:6 77:6,11,12,16 79:3,8 87:10 97:4 105:4,10 108:6 119:18 120:13 150:22 152:7,14 156:1 160:7,12 162:8 165:12 169:17 standardized 170:5 standards 1:5 2:12 5:6,15 11:15 17:8,13 19:8 20:4,7

21:8,9,11 22:7 24:6 25:16 26:10 27:14,19 28:8 29:6 40:16 41:3,13,16 45:18 46:1,2 48:12 50:5 51:4,8 53:9 60:6,9,12 67:10,11,18 72:19 73:2,19 77:2,17,20 78:21 79:6 83:9 87:12 96:14 97:2,8 98:1 109:6 113:8,10,12 118:12 122:8,11,15 142:18,21 151:10 160:20 161:9 163:2 168:8,10 169:3,19 173:13 174:11,18 175:3,6,10,17,2 0 179:3 182:14 stands 20:13 Star7:15 56:21 57:1 58:10,11 80:8,10 86:1 150:6 168:3 start5:11 6:14,18,19 15:19 24:17 27:3 45:16 46:12 56:2 57:4 102:4 117:7 157:14 165:8 started 5:3 46:5 starting 19:13 44:22 46:17 136:11 137:3 164:6

starts 50:20 state 45:15 48:4 74:18 80:5 105:20 128:5 132:10 133:3 stated 11:17 13:6 27:21 28:12 43:2 46:3 54:20 statement 14:9 60:5 Statements 4:4 states 69:9 static 83:8,11 stating 83:7 statistical49:14 statistically92:3 statute 37:11 57:21 68:9,14 179:4 statutorily62:8 statutory37:18 stay25:11 55:8 64:20 84:22 stays 85:7 steady80:5 step 59:11 89:19 103:2 113:3 117:22 118:19 119:1,16 120:10 step-by-step 102:22 Stephens 2:18 91:13,14 106:19 147:12,13 166:14 176:11 177:3,5,22 178:5

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 39

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 stepped 117:18 118:15 steps 11:18 15:9 103:15 stick6:1 stock23:4 161:14 169:9 stockpile172:12 stockpiling25:10 storage 109:8 store 50:8 134:17 158:15 stores 128:7 132:12,21 133:16 storm 18:17 story18:15,20 stress 58:3 179:10 strides 120:12 strikes 72:17 94:17 156:10 strong 177:1 stronger 97:7 strongly26:9 structure 22:21 94:14,19 95:7 structured 97:19 struggling 141:7 studies 178:19 stuff 123:19 Subgroup 174:22 subgroups 173:14 175:2 sub-groups 174:15 subject15:15 41:16 62:16 75:13 submit11:11 28:19 32:10 48:16 60:1 89:2 100:7,22 submittals 48:22 submitted 116:18 submitting 12:22 substitutes 60:14 62:13 103:7 116:8 success 19:9,10 successful 10:20 17:12 117:22 Sue7:3 sufficient 45:20 176:8 sufficiently9:22 180:10 suggest34:1 37:17 78:9 86:12 97:6 suggested 138:11,12 141:8 suggesting 63:17 144:18 suggestion 172:14 suggestions 71:4 77:14 90:6 95:13 suit50:22 sulfur175:16 sum 151:15 summary9:5 11:19 superiors 180:19 supplemental 70:1

supply128:6 132:11 support28:17 44:8 76:1 122:7,12 137:15 supports 43:22 66:14 supposed 33:3 36:16 sure 23:10 24:2,16 31:4 36:7 47:20 59:2,16 63:20 71:16 79:2 84:5 89:22 91:8,16 97:9 100:19 101:14 107:1 112:8 126:15 130:19 140:19 150:10 155:2 159:7 177:1 sure--I 158:22 surfaces 66:15 surprised 172:12 surprising 106:22 survey49:3,11,13 51:21 52:17 54:21 105:7 142:3 surveyed 69:18 92:4 surveys 48:14 54:15,19 73:10 146:16 Susan 2:8 suspect30:7 59:13 61:3 suspects 64:9 switched 107:20 Sylvania 2:8 7:4

system 65:5 178:16 systems 153:12 T table 35:14 46:15,18 76:9 147:17 155:21 tableau 17:20 taking 34:12 83:12,17 129:7 142:7 146:5 153:13 156:9,12 talk42:22 56:9,10 59:16 82:13 86:18 120:20 127:9 180:19 talking 53:11,14 76:4 86:13 106:1 132:18 138:7 139:22 144:17 151:2 157:15 159:17 talks 28:10 tangent56:1 Target134:13 task142:2 Taylor2:11 7:14 167:22 168:1 Tech 37:18,19 38:4 99:12 116:14 121:10 technical 21:17,20 28:17 76:1 100:9 technological81:7 technologically 103:10

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 40

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 technologies 23:21 27:17 84:4,16 86:3 88:17 94:11 98:19 107:6 110:16 112:7 114:9 120:22 121:3,11 129:9 131:16 135:20 139:11 149:9,19 technology4:9 9:10 20:11 61:5 66:18 69:16,22 70:1 75:15 80:20,22 81:2,5,8,13 87:4 93:19 96:14 97:5,22 98:11,12,16,17, 18,20 99:8,15,16,19,2 2 100:5,14,16 104:17 106:10,13,17 115:4 121:18 145:3 161:6,8,10 162:19 172:13 temperature 98:21 template 123:8 temptation 78:11 tend 47:18 148:17 tends 50:16 tension 95:5 term 41:9 42:9 65:14,16 88:16 89:14 95:2 terms 57:6 73:2 80:6 113:22 115:2 119:19 139:12 142:12 149:22 157:3 159:8 165:22 168:2,13 169:19 Terry2:14 7:21 26:5,6 133:10 178:4,9,10 test4:8 9:9 24:9 73:16,18,22 74:1,3,5,9,12,20 75:10 76:4,19 77:1,7,15,20,22 78:5,20 79:2,5,7,11 80:1,10 117:3 179:10 testing 80:13 116:19 tests 58:3 80:9 thank 5:13 6:12,13 8:16 13:6,14 15:15,16 24:17,18 26:2,3,12,21 33:16 34:22 36:3 43:1 44:13,15 45:11 49:9,22 52:19 53:3,5 59:10 64:17 65:6,7 67:16 68:17 71:19 72:11,12 78:15 79:9 80:14,15 83:21 86:18 92:18 93:19 96:7 100:12 108:13 109:15 114:4,5 115:19 116:6 117:15 120:15 122:3,19,20 126:5 138:3 139:4 142:6 144:4 145:13 151:3,4 156:22

164:2,22 172:18,19 177:4 179:18 181:1,12,13,19 thankfully 26:19 thanking 19:12 thanks 64:16 102:3 113:1 130:11 145:15 147:20 150:12 159:19 167:16 180:17 182:8 that's 8:18 11:1,21 15:1 17:21 18:16 20:12 21:8 22:15 25:3 26:21 31:4 32:7 34:10,17 35:13 36:14,15 39:13 43:18 52:6 55:6 56:3 60:13 61:2,3 62:14,22 64:2 67:22 70:10 78:7,8 79:3 80:10 82:16 83:13 85:2,4 93:6 95:6 96:12 97:4,9 106:10 108:15 109:11 110:8 112:8,19,22 116:5 117:10 118:11 119:17 123:16 127:1 130:20 135:8 138:18 149:15 155:7 156:8 160:15 163:22 that--you 17:1 the--how159:7 theirs 26:10

the--Issue 131:12 them--if 139:18 themselves 8:17 90:15,19 the--on 124:13 theoretically 32:19 thereafter183:5 there'd 32:21 therefore 22:14 41:4 66:19 69:13 73:10 74:9 107:16 147:6 171:13,14 there--is 68:7 there'll 115:12 126:10 there's 21:16 22:8 25:8 28:18 31:10 38:11 44:21 48:17 50:11 57:12 76:14 82:14 89:9,19 93:12 101:19 102:1 105:5 107:21 109:12 117:12 119:14 123:5 132:5 135:9 144:22 158:18 159:4,5 177:7 thermal99:5 they'll85:2 149:2 172:10 they're 18:9 22:3 46:8,17 48:7 51:15 52:11 61:1 62:13 64:22 84:9

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 41

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 85:20 86:4,8,9 93:16 94:10 108:3 111:3 121:4 131:10,17 135:15,20 142:19 155:16 158:2 they've 18:12 135:16 thin 66:12 third 19:2 104:21 Thorne 2:19 thorough 13:21 thoroughly21:15 thoughts 69:1 109:18 threatens 20:5 three-way22:3 40:4 46:8 72:9 73:8 three-year 29:3 threshold 54:10,12 55:1 throughout12:5 throw136:5 thus 42:7 65:15 181:20 Tier44:2 72:8 tiered 117:18 time--call79:18 timers 84:15 tired 149:1 to--as 35:20 today5:8 8:22 16:1,3,11 17:5,18 20:20 21:2,19 23:9,18 24:2,17 30:5 83:12 85:17,22 94:22 95:1 106:5 108:5,8 142:16 143:18 171:21 180:16 today's 5:16 11:9,13 13:15 130:9 to--it's 37:17 Tom 108:22 109:7 tomorrow's 130:6 tool138:19,20 topic 55:6 75:2 86:13,17 150:16 topics 74:18 toss 118:2 total32:2,3 135:13,14 150:20 151:12 169:10,13 171:12,14 totally10:17 135:20 136:1 toward120:12 177:7 towards 21:11 180:11 to--well8:18 track64:13 101:16 tracking 47:1 tracks 47:9 tradition 6:14,18 traditionally39:9 69:8 transcript 10:7 11:9 183:7 transition 19:4 25:1 98:19 166:1,2 transitional 164:13 translate 14:10 translation 15:4 trash 76:10 travels 182:11 treat24:4 treating 150:3 trend 47:4 84:12 139:12 160:12 162:20 trends 81:19 82:6 161:6 162:1 167:12 tricky 142:13 tried--they77:19 trigger 45:22 trips 158:15 trivial 63:22 trouble 71:17 true 62:6,14 109:11 183:7 try12:18 55:8 77:18 85:4 109:21 137:3 140:15 145:4 157:17,19 167:1,4 trying 10:16 31:12 48:15 79:2,4 82:16 117:8,21 138:18 141:15 144:12 145:2 TSD 85:12 tube 75:8 Tuesday1:11 5:8

tuned 15:14 turn 10:10,13,18 15:13 102:1 181:16 turned 18:17 70:5 165:4 turning 10:12 turns 79:17 twice 53:17 two-pack45:9 two-thirds 109:4 two-week

15:21 type 33:11 69:21 70:9 73:12 87:7 89:17 91:22 92:1,5 96:4 98:17 105:20 106:17 164:19 171:17 types 21:21 22:1,16,20 23:17 35:21 36:14 39:3,11 40:3,12,14 42:4 45:17 53:18 54:2,7,9,17 59:9 69:19 70:17 71:6 74:6,13,19 78:9 84:14 88:21 89:12 93:12 96:3 110:3 139:14 140:9 162:19 types--basically 153:13 typewriting 183:6 typical66:15 109:4,5 148:3 157:20 160:7

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 42

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 typically 10:21 47:17 55:8 69:10 87:20 103:21 147:8 150:8 163:21 U U.S 2:4,5,11 5:4 7:14 19:1 20:7 146:12 ultimate 166:20 ultimately130:20 unanimous 34:1 unclear 66:20 178:17 underneath 101:21 understand 5:21 16:19 17:22 31:12 75:20 77:18 88:21 112:17 138:8 162:8 178:6,13 understanding 16:22 30:18 31:15 89:12 124:22 136:6 underway74:3 unfortunately 19:17 94:15 uniform 149:20 unit169:11 units 127:22 139:20 unless 42:11 unlike 107:3 unlikely 42:1 unmute 95:17 unusual56:17 update 57:3 58:2 80:12 updated 57:18 updating57:9,17 58:17 upon 178:16 upstream 161:16,19 urge 108:10 usage 177:15 useful32:10 63:1 156:19 user126:4,21 127:22 130:18 users 154:12 us--even 61:12 usually 131:9,10,17 147:10 utilities 2:14 7:18 175:6 utility81:15 87:11 88:4,11 110:17 118:12 147:7 175:4 176:13 utilize 135:7 utilizing 151:22 169:7 V value 128:11 154:10 158:12 169:2 170:4 173:21 values 128:3 136:3,21 vapor70:9,12 71:11,16 variation 126:10,12

variations 117:12 various 59:9 83:20 128:9 160:12,13 162:12 175:2 vary106:9 129:17 vehicle 6:11 venture 51:7 verification 116:19 117:3 Vermont48:4 version 153:7 versus 91:4,6 111:12,21 112:1 113:19 118:15 119:9 134:15 141:12 149:19 156:20 via2:17 10:18 12:16 95:16 133:20 179:4 vibration 43:13 46:16 vibrations 44:9 view31:13 35:12 36:2 57:3 62:4 voice 77:7 voltage 40:1 69:13 voltages 122:18 volume 103:22 104:16 107:1 108:1,11 114:22 115:5,7 134:17,18 167:7 voluntary168:8 W waited82:12

waiting134:9 181:7 Walgreen's 43:11 walk 17:18 60:22 walking8:21 Wal-Mart 52:1,4 134:13 warehousing25:9 warm 70:4 warms 70:5 Washington 1:10 5:9 watt6:1 25:7,20 28:1,4,5 30:17,22 31:9 32:19,21 33:1,5,8,10 34:7,9,16,20 35:3,5,7,13,17,2 1 36:14 37:14,19 43:6,20 44:1 53:22 63:8,11,12,14,1 6 64:2,5 72:3,6 73:9 113:20,22 119:10,11 165:12 177:17 watt--a34:2 wattage 32:2 92:5 118:14 119:8,13,19 wattages 40:6 116:13,16 117:9,12 120:8 watts 25:11 178:21 ways 31:10 36:18,19 99:10

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 43

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 135:9 166:21 we?'ll94:1 weaker97:4 wear101:14,17 web 10:18 95:16 webinar10:15 11:5,7,8 website 10:8 12:16 91:19 92:13 we'd16:15 23:9 30:8 44:1,2 51:20 64:13 72:10 77:21 90:5 105:16 125:12 140:20 162:15 167:18 week 13:17 15:13,22 weeks 13:22 180:14 we--I 126:7 weight134:15 156:19 weighted 34:3 weighting 34:18 welcome 4:2 5:4,10,16 10:15 26:19 58:13 90:5 95:13 112:12,13 128:14 134:22 140:20 141:19 143:3 149:12 162:13 167:18 170:19,22 182:4 welcomes 6:9 12:1 42:16 65:20 66:22 68:2 70:15,17,19 74:11 81:18 88:6,8,10,13,15 99:14,18,20 124:18 146:19 154:18 welcoming 5:11 104:6 116:21 we'll9:11,16 17:5 21:3,17 27:3 38:12 54:13 60:1 63:1 65:2 67:14 82:7 83:2 90:7 91:22 92:2,8 93:7,14 98:10 100:21 101:13 102:3,4,12,15 112:12 120:9,12 122:2 127:16 160:18 167:10,12,13 173:9 177:9 179:17 181:9 we're 5:11 18:18 19:18 21:13 22:19 23:2,10,14,20 26:16 27:3,16 28:11,14,16 38:18 46:12 47:17,19 52:5 53:11,13,14 56:1 57:12,15 58:12 65:10 71:13,16,17 73:13 78:13 79:2,4 82:16 83:9,13 84:5,12 85:10 86:13 90:1 93:4 96:8 98:9 101:5,9,10,11 102:9,10 104:6 109:16 110:13,15

111:11 113:2 116:21 120:6 123:20 125:9 126:19,21,22 129:7 132:18 139:18 141:12,15,16,18 142:8 143:19 145:14 151:2 164:9,12 167:1 171:18 179:14 Westinghouse 2:9 7:6 122:22 155:13 we've 10:20 13:15 17:7 18:5 22:12 28:12 45:16 46:5 59:2,18 72:2 77:3 78:12 79:1 90:3,4 100:9 102:3 115:11 117:17,18 123:3,15 126:9,10 138:6 139:17 162:14 168:3,10 we--you 121:20 whatever79:19 141:1 150:9 162:5 178:19 what--maybe 131:13 whatsoever37:15 whereas 75:7 Whereupon 182:12 whether40:8 45:22 53:15 55:14,19 57:12 62:13 64:12,22 66:20 75:16

81:8 93:16 99:16 104:12 105:5 112:13 129:18 134:11 147:9,15 167:12 178:18 whoever's 123:10 whole26:11 60:18 64:7,11 150:11 173:16 wholeheartedly 118:10 whom183:3 who's 52:16 159:16 wide130:16 will--if 122:1 wireless 57:14 wish 5:18 6:2 8:18 10:21 147:21 180:8,10 wishes 9:4 95:16 withstand 44:9 wondering88:22 89:15 121:8,12 140:8 180:15 work 10:20 19:9 23:19 112:5 137:4 worked 119:18 150:22 166:3 working6:18 17:14 30:4 81:9 82:3 85:3 101:15 140:11,12 world53:22 95:4 106:3 165:15

### Capital Reporting Company

DOE - Public Meeting on Energy Conservation Standards 01-14-2014 Page 44

(866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 worry156:11 worse43:21 worth 84:19 151:21 171:22 wrestle 143:10 writing32:11 written 11:11 21:18 34:10 44:14 59:7 74:17 82:11 94:2 98:3 100:8,11,22 122:1 181:22 wrong31:15 61:17 142:16 Y Yeah--but111:17 yet59:3 77:6 78:9 105:2 139:10 140:3 you--in 157:12 you'll92:7,10 121:1,15 126:8 136:7 137:6 149:3 yourself 136:8 you've 10:12 17:1 90:3 94:9 144:13 158:21 Z zero 153:3,11 155:3,14 156:2 zone57:14