UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH REVIEW COMMISSION

SECRETARY OF LABOR, )

)

Complainant )

)

v. ) Docket No. 08-1104

)

IMPERIAL SUGAR COMPANY; )

IMPERIAL-SAVANNAH, L.P. )

)

Respondents. )

____________________________________)

RESPONDENTS’ OPPOSITION TO COMPLAINANTS MOTION FOR LEAVE TO

TAKE THE DEPOSITIONS OF WITNESSES WHO WERE INTERVIEWED UNDER

OATH BY OSHA DURING THE INVESTIGATION

Respondents Imperial Sugar Company and Imperial-Savannah, L.P. (collectively

“Imperial”) respectfully oppose Complainant’s motion for leave to re-depose several Imperial

managers and corporate officers who were deposed during the six-month OSHA investigation

into the February 7, 2008 accident at Imperial’s sugar refinery in Port Wentworth, Georgia.

Complainant has articulated no good and just reason for re-deposing these individuals, which

include Imperial’s President and Chief Executive Officer. Imperial respectfully submits that

another deposition of these individuals, especially if any of the numerous matters covered in the

lengthy first depositions were again addressed in the second depositions, would be duplicative

and would serve only to burden these witnesses as well as Imperial.

Unlike the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which allow litigants in federal court to

depose individuals by simply giving notice to other parties, the Review Commission’s Rules of

Procedure require either agreement of all parties or permission from the Commission or Judge to

depose someone. Compare Fed.R.Civ.P. 30(a)-(b) with 29 C.F.R. § 2200.56(a). The party

seeking permission must state “good and just reasons” for the deposition. 29 C.F.R. §
- 2 -

LEGAL02/31467150v2

2200.56(a). Here, Imperial respectfully submits that Complainant has not carried her burden to

establish good and just reasons to re-depose twelve (12) of Imperial’s officers and managers.

1. All Twelve Witnesses Have Previously Been Deposed by Complainant, Including

Being Questioned by Complainant’s Attorneys.

During the course of its investigation of Imperial, Complainant opted to take sworn

administrative depositions of the twelve (12) witnesses who Complainant now seeks to redepose. Those witnesses included Imperial’s most senior officers and managers, including

Imperial’s President and Chief Executive Officer, Senior Vice President of Human Resources,

former Vice President of Operations, current Vice President of Operations, current Corporate

Safety Director, and former Corporate Safety Director. These depositions lasted anywhere from

three to four hours up to eight hours. In eleven of the twelve previous depositions, Complainant

had at least one, and often two, of her legal counsel in this case present at the depositions, and

those lawyers asked numerous questions of the witnesses, in addition to questioning by multiple

OSHA investigators. Also, Imperial is a party to a number of civil actions relating to the

February 7, 2008 event. All but two of the twelve witnesses at issue have been deposed in those

civil cases, and pursuant to Complainant’s request, Imperial has provided a copy of these civil

deposition transcripts to Complainant.1

2. Imperial Submits that Duplicative Questions are Inevitable.

Given that these witnesses have already been deposed, in some instances rather

exhaustively, by Complainant and her counsel, Imperial believes a re-deposition of these

witnesses will inevitably duplicate what Complainant has already done. For example,

depositions taken by Complainant since this administrative litigation commenced suggest that

the repeat depositions Complainant seeks by her motion will repeat the same topics upon which

1

Similarly, Complainant has provided the administrative deposition transcripts to certain

attorneys for the plaintiffs in these civil cases.
- 3 -

LEGAL02/31467150v2

the witnesses were extensively questioned at their first depositions. To date, Complainant has

deposed two Imperial employees whom OSHA interviewed during its investigation in an

informal, non-sworn setting. Although Complainant’s counsel was present at only one of these

previous OSHA interviews, many of the same topics about which OSHA asked these individuals

in Spring 2008 (prior to issuance of any citations) were again covered in the depositions of these

individuals taken in Summer 2009, as evidenced by a simple comparison of the interview

statements prepared by OSHA and the transcripts of the recent depositions.2For example,

Imperial employee Edward Jaudon was asked questions at both his OSHA interview and his

deposition by Complainant’s counsel regarding the following topics: his membership on and the

role of the plant’s safety steering committee (Ex. A, Jaudon OSHA Stmt. at 1-2; Ex. B, Jaudon

Depo. at 36-38, 48-49); the plant’s job safety analysis project (Jaudon OSHA Stmt. at 2; Jaudon

Depo. at 49-51); the plant’s specific methods of performing workplace safety audits and

inspections and changes in those methods over time (Jaudon OSHA Stmt. at 2-4; Jaudon Depo.

at 39-42, 51-53, 90-100); training and knowledge regarding the combustibility of sugar dust

(Jaudon OSHA Stmt. at 3; Jaudon Depo. at 73-80); prior incidents / accidents at the plant,

including fires and employee injuries (Jaudon OSHA Stmt. at 7; Jaudon Depo. at 87-89, 146-49,

151-58, 266-72); electrical classification and electrical equipment used at the plant (Jaudon

OSHA Stmt. at 8; Jaudon Depo. at 123-30, 136-37, 216-18); and his personal observations of

sugar and sugar dust in various areas of the plant (Jaudon OSHA Stmt. at 4-7; Jaudon Depo. at

80-83, 166-80, 187-92, 197-201). Mr. Jaudon’s deposition, excluding breaks, lasted the full

seven hours allowed by Fed. R. Civ. P. 30(d)(1), with much of that time consisting of

questioning that mirrored that of his OSHA interview conducted over one year earlier. The other

2 Copies of the OSHA interview statements are attached as Exhibits A and C to this brief, while

those portions of the deposition transcripts cited in the brief are attached as Exhibits B and D.
- 4 -

LEGAL02/31467150v2

Imperial employee who has been interviewed by OSHA and deposed by Complainant – Jerome

Stokes – was similarly questioned at his deposition on most of the topics covered in his OSHA

interview a year earlier. (See Ex. C, Stokes OSHA Stmt. at 1-3; Ex D, Stokes Depo. at 60-65,

111-15, 119-22, 127-48, 155-66, 218-19.)

3. Complainant has not Established Good and Just Reasons for the Depositions

because the Discovery Sought is Duplicative and Unreasonably Cumulative.

As noted above, Complainant has not carried her burden to establish good and just

reasons for re-deposing these individuals pursuant to 29 C.F.R. § 2200.56(a). For example, Fed.

R. Civ. P. 26(b)(2)(C)(i) provides that the frequency or extent of discovery “must” be limited if

“the discovery sought is unreasonably cumulative or duplicative.” Further, Fed. R. Civ. P.

30(a)(2)(A)(ii) requires leave of court for a deposition “if the deponent has already been deposed

in the case.”

Here, Complainant has offered no middle ground to attempt to address the cumulative

and duplicative nature of these depositions. Although Complainant indicates she will

“endeavor” not to duplicate previous questions, she apparently takes the position that she has the

right to duplicate previous questions. Further, while Complainant indicates that at present, she

only plans to re-depose one individual, she takes the position that she is entitled to re-depose

each of the twelve (12) witnesses, including Imperial’s President and Chief Executive Officer,

without providing any reason whatsoever. The Complainant’s newly-discovered desire for free

flowing discovery should be contrasted with her objections to Imperial’s desire to depose (for the

first time) her compliance officers and her demands that Respondents explain exactly what they

wanted to accomplish out of those depositions and why they needed the depositions. (See

Complainant’s Response to Respondents’ Motion to Depose OSHA Compliance Officers). As

previously stated to Complainant, Imperial is willing to attempt to work out a compromise if
- 5 -

LEGAL02/31467150v2

Complainant will provide Imperial with a proposal for which witnesses she wishes to re-depose

and on what new grounds. Instead, Complainant has taken the position that she will depose all

twelve (12) witnesses on any, as yet unstated, subject matter she chooses. It would be

unreasonably cumulative and duplicative to re-depose these twelve (12) witnesses, and Imperial

seeks an order from the Commission limiting such an attempt. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 26(b)(2)(C)

(providing that the frequency or extent of discovery “must” be limited if “the discovery sought . .

. can be obtained from some other source that is more convenient, less burdensome, or less

expensive”).

For the foregoing reasons, Imperial requests that the Commission deny the Complainant’s

motion to re-depose Imperial’s managers and officers.

Respectfully submitted this 25

th day of August 2009.

/s/ Jeremy D. Tucker

Charles H. Morgan

charlie.morgan@alston.com

Matthew J. Gilligan

matt.gilligan@alston.com

Ashley D. Brightwell

ashley.brightwell@alston.com

Jeremy D. Tucker

jeremy.tucker@alston.com

ALSTON & BIRD LLP

1201 West Peachtree Street

Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3424

(404) 881-7000

FAX: (404) 253-8757

Attorneys for Respondents
- 6 -

LEGAL02/31467150v2

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH REVIEW COMMISSION

SECRETARY OF LABOR, )

)

Complainant )

)

v. ) Docket No. 08-1104

)

IMPERIAL SUGAR COMPANY; )

IMPERIAL-SAVANNAH, L.P. )

)

Respondents. )

____________________________________)

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I certify that all parties have consented that all papers required to be served in this action

may be served and filed electronically. I further certify that a copy of RESPONDENTS’

OPPOSITION TO COMPLAINANT’S MOTION FOR LEAVE TO TAKE THE

DEPOSITIONS OF WITNESSES WHO WERE INTERVIEWED UNDER OATH BY OSHA

DURING THE INVESTIGATION was electronically served on August 25, 2009 on the

following counsel for Complainant:

Karen E. Mock

Mock.Karen@dol.gov

Angela F. Donaldson

Donaldson.Angela@dol.gov

Office of the Solicitor

U.S. Department of Labor

61 Forsyth Street S.W.

Room 7T10

Atlanta, Georgia 30303

/s/ Jeremy D. Tucker

Jeremy D. Tucker

Alston & Bird LLP

1201 West Peachtree Street

Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3424

jeremy.tucker@alston.com
Secretary ofLabor v. Imperial Sugar Company and Imperial-Savannah, L. P.
 

OSHRC Docket No. 08-1104
 

Respondents' Opposition to Complainant's Motion for Leave to Take the Depositions
 

of Witnesses Who Were Interviewed under Oath by OSHA During the Investigation
 

Administrative Law Judge Covette Rooney
 

Exhibit A
 

OSHA Interview Statement of Edward Jaudon
 

Filed Electronically on August 25,2009
 
Date Form Revised 4/9/08 

u.s. Department ofLabor 

Oecupational Safety and Health Administration 

Statement 

I, Eddie Jaudon, reside at P.O. Box 114 in the City & State ofTillman, SC 29943. My telephone 

number is I am employed by Imperial Sugar Company located at 201 Oxnard 

Street, in the City & State ofPort,Wentworth, GA. The office telephone number is 912-964-1361. 

I have 27 years working in company 1. My job classification is Safety Coordinantor, for 4 

years. E&1 Shop Printer Technician for 11 years WS Sugar Whse previous to Printer 

Technician. 

This statement is being taken as part ofan official federal investigation by the United States 

Department ofLabor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration. 1understand that this 

statement may be used in courtlhearings, or made available to other agencies if it will assist them 

in the performance oftheir statutory function. Upon closing ofthis case, this statement may be 

subject to disclosure only in accordance with applicable statues and agency policy. 

I have been iinterviewed by CSB attorneys. 

This interview is being conducted in the presence ofKurt Petermeyer, Savannah OSHA, Brenda Sherrod, 

Savannah OSHA, and Charlie, Alston and Bird, LLC and I have no objections to hislher presence. 

I work for Darren Pevey. 

Kurt explained whistleblower act. 

Graduated high school 1976, started working a meat cutter, construction (framer), then 

went to work for Dixie Crystal, Managers Course at GSU, OSHA 30 hour under Doug 

Sikes (2006) on site. I have no certifications. 

My responsibilities are keeping up with behavior based safety, safety audits, steering 

committee (1 month for different projects, action plans), Steering was key people that 

helped with observations (Savh SAFE). The steering committee was formed by Doug 

Sikes and I started it in 2004. I think it started in 2002. I was a steering committee 

member. Doug Sikes was the chair ofthe steering committee. Doug and Philip Rowland 

may the decision to hire me between 3 applicants. We had meetings 2/month for the last 

8 months piror to incident. John Sheptor wanted us start doing JSA and we knew the 8 

hours/month would not be enough time so we went to 16 hours/month. 

My first action plant was LOTO. We did a lot of research and started an action plan 

where we needed to put disconnects and did JSA's on machines. Steering committee 

members would help in writing the JSAs. JSAs were done on throughout the entire plant. 

The project was not ompleted at the time ofthe incident. We were 95% on South 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000720 
packaging, 3d floor, and 90% on packaging 2 on North and South, 1st and 2d floor 

including conveyor to WS Whse. The 10% missing was conveyors going to WS Whse 

Packaging 2. All the machines were done on JSA. Packaging 3 was probably 100% but 

we probably missed a few disconnects. 600 v or higher needer larger and usually turned 

offmany things. The smaller ones turned off on machines. I cannot remember brand of 

disconnects. They are not all the same. We started with one set ofuser friendly and felt 

that it was not recognizable enough then went to the bigger size. Square D is name ofbig 

disconnect LOTO on refmery had big disconnect and we had changed out on F side all 

the cnetrifugals. I can't remember what we hadn't gotten done. To mount a big 

disconnect it took about 2 days and the smaller a day. The had LOTO capability but we 

wanted to make it user friendly. The written procedures we were in the process ofdoing 

the process from East to West. We were around 20 - 25% with procedures for each 

machine but we do have a general LOTO for all machines throughout the bldg. We had 

moved all the way up to somewhere around the centrifugals, F side. Some ofthe 

procedures were already written for some machines in packaging but we wanted them 

more specific. Braddy was helping with this task by actually installing the disconnect. 

Mike Lastie's group came in and worked for D. Sikes. LOTO was question on 

observation sheets. We averaged 200 per month ofobservations. It was put into 

Bapptrac (Bav SafTng program) system. There sheets are a checklist (tearout sheet in a 

book). The observer would come by and check off ifthe employee was working safe and 

X ifnot. The documents were given to me and I placed them in the computer system. 

We saved them and had many documents ofobservation. I do not know the OSHA 

requirements for doing audits. (Kurt told him annually). I tracked the observation and 

audits for LOTO. I have some ofthe tearout sheets in my office. I did two walk throughs 

per day 6:00 am and 1:OOpm. I work from 6:00 am to 4:00 - 5:00 pm (whatever). I 

inspected 6:00 am 2 & 3 Packaging (North & South), Bulk Station (we would talk to 

supv or opr). 6:00 am walkthrough - We would go to the supervisors on duty (me or 

Darren but most ofthe time both wiAamir, possible Chris Gordon) and we would meet 

with supervisor on duty. We would then go to the Processing side and meet with Mitch 

Kerby. How did everything go last night safety wise, quality, production. These are not 

detailed mahine by machine walkthroughs. We left the area after talking to supv. The 

1:00 pm we did the bucket brigade - We would actually take white buckets and actually 

do walkthrough inspections to pick up debris and trash in the path. Our goal was to have 

nothing in the bucket (quality). We would do specific area inspections. I had a team (2-6 

people) which was decided at the 9:00 am meeting. Ifwe were going to Bulk Station, BS 

station would go. Team, H Bader, Tom Wilson, Cyn Hamilton, Aarnir, D. Sikes, Mgr or 

Supv ofDept, ifavailable mechanic and elec assigned to areas. On the initial 

walkthrough, we would have a followup two weeks later. This program was started 

about 3 months prior to the incident. Aamir put the program together. In the course of 

the 3 months we did not ~et to all areas in the plant. Completed was 90% ofprocess; 

99% ofpackaging (1- 4 floors North and South sides) and, Raw Sugar (1 st floor), WS 

Warehouse. I know we did some in the boiler house but I don't know how far we got. 

We did some in Areado but I'm not sure how far we got. I don't remember doing R&D. 

Most of the time, I do the following inspection. I have been on top ofB&C bins since the 

new catwalks has been installed. I think the new catwalk was finished late 2006 or early 

2007. This was a daily walkthru for me. We looked for safety things such as pinch points, 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000721
 
covers missing. Hannah, Cynthia and Tom were looking for housekeeping issues. I was 

not specifically looking for housekeeping issues. Ifsugar accumulation stuck out, I would 

address it, but I am specifically looking at the things assigns to me such as disconnects. 

These inspections were documented through our network with a daily log. Darren Pevey 

kept all the logs. One person in each group kept notes and provided it to me and Darren 

Pevey put it in the computer. We start generating WO,ifneeded, depending on caliber of 

work. The report also went back to the manager ofthat dept. Majority oftime, either 

Darren or me will document fmdings, possibly Hannah. We discuss in the end to makes 

sure everything is covered. IfDarren is here he inspectsto computer, ifnot here I put it 

in. He sends reports to managers and supervisors. I maintain a list of items as well as 

work order. We take original sheet back in 2weeks. Ifnot completed, we go back to the 

manager again. Darren would set a target completion date for managers. 

We also do safety self audits (bubble sheets) (observing yourself as an employee) with 

manager sheets (they do audits), supervisors would do PPE and would given to employee 

so they could evaluate themselves 1- 2 times/week. I would collect the data and look at 

things putting people at risk. One issue was LOTO and that is why we put so much 

emphasis on LOTO. Steering committee and observers did CCls. I was an observer then 

was on steering committee and then I moved into my job. Majority ofmy time is spent is 

spent inputting data into the computer in BappTrac system. I did approx 10-15 

observations per month depending on spare time I had. I had something called red alert 

(line of fire (anytime you put a body part in danger zone) at risk) which clued to go to 

those at risk areas. Housekeeping is part ofour CCls where I looked for sugar 

accumulation. Accumulation is looked at as tripping or housekeeping. We have had to 

address accumulation as housekeeping on sheets. When the observation is complete you 

give the employee to come up with a solution for the at risk issues. 

I was told by Stewart Exley (x-safety manager) in birthday safety that sugar dust was 

combustible when I was hired. It was also discussed every year They did not go in great 

I did not realize the magnitude ofwhat sugar dust could do ifit combusted. No one ever 

told me an acceptable amount ofdust or how much it would take to explode or combust. 

The only other inspectors are new hits, first aid, OSHA reportable, any incident area. We 

investigate near hits (manager or supervisor whoever is available). Pevey or myself 

would do the near hits but mostly Pevey. 

Training that I have had to identify safey issues is Behavior Based 3 days in 2006 

(BST, OJha, CA), Observer training through D. Sikes (2 days); and root cause analysis 

through D,. Sikes (2 day training); I provided the observer training up to selfaudit 

change. I started working on developing a faster way ofinputting data which is when we 

went to bubble sheets. Philip Rowland came up with doing new way of audits where 

observations became limited and then employees were auditing themselves. When Aamir 

and G. Graham came in they wanted to change the scenery and they wanted to do walk 

through inspections. 

Outside audits were Mike Lastie's team (ICU) (around 2006) who did confmed space and 

other things but I am not sure what all he was doing. I think LOTO was also done 

3 DOL-IMP-ATL 0000722 
sometime by M. Lastie but I do not know ifthey were together. I did not see copy of 

audits. I am not aware of an audit that M. Lastie did before he was a consultant. I do not 

remember emails referring to M. Lastie audit but I'm sure there are but I don't remember. 

I do not remember any emails addressing sugar accumulation. We had an all day steering, 

committee meeting on Monday before incident. On Tuesday, I went to road silo manlift 

with Aamir, Tony Thomas and Bruce went with me and we found some sugar 

accumulation and we had it cleaned up immediately. It was on the floor on the East end 

ofthe 9th floor accumulated at about 10 - 12". There was nothing leaking when I got to 

9th flow. It must have backed up and fell ofscroll. I was thinking about housekeeping 

and tripping coming off ofmanlift. Tony called Bruce, Bruce put his men on it and they 

started cleaning it. Bruce called me on Wed and told me everything was clean but I did 

not inspect it but Bruce is straight up. The 9

th floor was on the schedule to be inspected 

and we stopped at every landing along the way. On each landing we saw little build up 

of sugar and we knew it was coming from the 9

th floor. Each landing was cleaned 

according to Bruce. Sugar was falling down 9 landings. Aamir told Bruce to clean from 

top to bottom. He had a whole crew up there and I saw the crew up there (about 5-6 

employees came to clean). I did not see any other accumulation on the on the 9th floor. I 

do not receive AlB audits. I have not seen the full report but Philip would paraphrase in 

emails what the report addressed. I do not recall him addressing sugar dust accumulation 

in these reports. I go to the tunnel area ofthe silo about lImonth. I rode the elevator at 

the tunnel once and a while but most ofthe time I took the stairs. I went to the hummer 

rooms (one or the other) every now and then after Bruce called me to inspect for 

cleaning. Bruce's crew was the cleaners and there is a daily checkoff sheet that has to be 

checked off. I'm sure I have seen a master cleanup list but I cannot recall seeing it. 

Everybody had a sheet to clean and they had a responsibility to clean. My area to clean 

was 5lb consolidated palletizer area. We cleaned that area lImonth. It's almost like a 

safety observation but it is a quality check. I had to inspect areas to make sure the 

cleaning was done. I'm not sure who cleaned the 4th floor. This is a list ofnames and 

assigned areas for cleaning and I think it is a Quality Inspection document given by 

Hannah Baderschneider. I am pretty sure that Bruce and his crew kept clean (week to 

week, day to day). Hog (SE corner ofpacking house) remelt area was a day to day area 

that Bruce's cleaners cleaned. Brooms or vacuum cleaners (air vacs) were used to clean 

the packing house. I know they have used air to blow down in the past but I don't think 

they blow down now they wash. Cleaning is done on Mondays but I have usually gone 

through before they start cleaning. Since we have been doing walkthroughs, we see less 

sugar and it is the cleanest I have ever seen it. This is one ofJohn Sheptor, Aamir, and G. 

Graham's big issues, keeping it clean. I do not know what caused the explosion. 

Areas that had the greatest problem with accumulation ofsugar or sugar dust was 4th 

floor powder side and hummer rooms, steel belts would run over and there would be a 

trail under the belt but I don't think that was a big issue. Someone addressed sugar dust 

or sugar spills about a year ago on 4th floor about accumulation of sugar or sugar dust, 

raw sugar between motor room in front ofcontainers they would have wet sugar spills, 1st 

floor around remelt (white or brown) it would spill out into alley which I made my Pet 

Peeve area. I got contractors to come in and clean it up. We confined that area to only 

allow a set amount ofsugar so it would not spill over to forklift passage way. My 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000723
 
suggestions to remedy these accumulation issues were to clean up more and better. Areas 

where the sugar would accumulate would be hummer rrom (bucket out and put down 

tube, tube would plug up); tunnel (bucket out). They can't clean every area every day. 

Sometimes they would say we can't get to it today so we'll get it tomorrow. I do not 

know how they get the sugar down on the 9th floor. Kurt told him that it is carried by a 

tote. Sometimes there would be spills on the Bemis machine when bags are not there or 

bags burst. For spillage on production side would be spilling bags 5 lbs to tOO lbs. The 

robot was the big runner ofthe production area. You would have to ask Tim Strozzo that. 

I have seen suspended dust in the air when they were cleaning up (sweeping) and the 

worse place would be 4th floor. On 4th floor there would be suspended dust and a haze in 

the room sometimes. The last time I have seen suspended dust on the 4th floor was 6-7 

months before the incident. In the past 6 months since Pevey has concentrated more on 

cleaning, I can see it is not as dusty. On the manlift, it would be granulated sugar. I know 

that a lot ofpeople do not like to wear safety equipment and they complain dust gets on 

their glasses, but I have never had sugar dust on my glasses. I have had to take them off 

because they steam up. I stay in the plant about and hour/day. 

Kurt showed the photos ofdust accumulation. 

Dust 8 - Eddie says it is near tunnel but he doesn't know exactly were it is. Kurt tells him 

it is in half moon area. I have seen accumulation in this are about a year ago as shown in 

photo. In the tunnel, 7 - 8 months ago I saw them bucketing the sugar out. 6 or 7 months 

ago, I saw saw accumulation in the tunnel because I was called about the lights (bulbs 

blown out) and there was sugar on the floor. The tunnel height is about 7 feet and the 

lights are either globe type oftype mounted on the walls. I don't know what type oflights 

are in there but I cannot believe we have fluorescent because ofthe glass issue. Jimmy Z 

ran new lights in the tunnel fairly recently. Jimmy Z went all the way up with new lights 

up the manlift silo area at each landing. I went in the tunnel because Wille or Bernard 

called me about the lights. I told them they needed to get sugar out when I was in there. I 

have seen sugar inside half moon structures. We were doing LOTO in 2006 and we were 

assessing these areas. 

Dust 16 - Eddie says that in the tunnel area. The pile has to be offofthe steel belt. I 

have never seen rodding taking place. I have seen sugar piles about 6 - 7 months ago. I 

have not been in halfmoon areas within 2 years but I did see build up on the motors. 

Larry Williams sefthis up. I do not remember ifI had anyone clean it up. Motor in 

picture- I'm sure I have seen motors with sugar dust on them as seen on the photo. We 

used to come injust to clean motors but we now we are replacing motors with explosion 

proof. I don't think I have seen motors in the tunnel areas. I have never been under the 

tunnel area to inspect for dust accumulation on motors. I was not specifically looking for 

sugar accumulation when I went in the tunnel area 6 - 7 months ago and this was the last 

time I remember being in the tunnel. Jimmy Z actually installed the lights mentioned 

above. A document where Jimmy installed the lights could verify the time I actually 

entered the tunnel area. 

5 DOL-IMP-ATL 0000724 
Dust - Accessing the tunnel 1st floor enclosure for bucket an manlift - I went to this area 

to ride manlift to top on Tuesday before the incident. At times there have been times 

where the sugar looked like the photo. I do not remember the walls having dust on them. 

I recall seeing sugar on the floor. Whatever the 8 floors below didn't catch it was on 1

st 

floor about Y2 inch. The higher we rode to the 9th floor, the deeper it got. Once we got to 

the 3rd floor we realized there was a problem (sugar pile 12 -14 inches high), so we went 

down to address the problem with Tony Thomas and B. Long. If anyone picked up on it, 

it should have been the siloman, but I did not discuss it with him. 

Dust - 18 The last time I was in that area was 1 to 1-1/2 years ago. It did not have 

accumulation like the picture because they were replacing the buckets. I have 

I have seen the bucket elevator look like the picture shown but I don't remember when. 

Bottom picture - The last time I climbed up to the top was Aamir, Pevey, and myself 

walked the stairs to do an assessment ofthe new stairs and went all the way to the top. I 

can not remember see any accumulation on the motor. 

Dust 1 - I have seen accumulation on motors but I don't remember when. I do not 

remember sugar being on the motors as shown in the photo. 

Dust 33 - Picture is scroll on one side and one ofother side. We looked down the galley 

the Tues visit before the incident and there was accumulation on the floor. There is 

generally dust on the floor. When they clean it, there is sugar suspended in the air. On 

9th floor was a pile 24" or 28" as we got offthe manlift. The galley did not look like the 

photo the Tues I was up there before the incident. The times I went up in the past doing 

inspections, we would have been looking for accumulation like in the photo. 

Dust 34 - 9th floor Aero Belt (Closeup oflast picute) - I have seen accumulation like this 

in the past within a couple of years ago. It used to be common to see this accumulation 

but now it is uncommon to see sugar accumulation like this photo. I see it on scrolls and 

equipment. This kind ofaccumulation would cause me to initiate action. 

Stufflike this photo is why we try to get more cleaning people. I do not know how many 

cleaners Bruce has to clean packaging area but I think it is 6. We always tell 

management that we need more cleaning people. It was told by Doug and Darren which 

is told to Philip that we needed more cleaning people. I was agreeing with Doug and 

Darren when he told Philip. I do not know exactly where the issue was brought up at. 

Bruce did end up getting more help. They were working to put a cleaning gang back 

together because it helps evaluate employees and it gets cleaning done. This was only to 

evaluate the employees to see ifthey were good workers. Ginger in Administration was 

trying to bring this back. Everyone that is brought in has a 3 month evaluation period. 

The last time they ask for more people a couple of months before the incident. 

Dust 19 - 4th floor - Production Steel Belt. Last time I have been up to the steel 

production belt where mixer is was about 3 weeks ago. We had an issue with a drain. 

This area looked real good the last time I was up there. The last time I have seen 

accwnulation on the motor was 8 months before the incident. No one has ever brought a 

complaint to me about this are. I complemented Bruce on how well he has cleaned up the 

6 DOL-IMP-ATL 0000725 
area. The steel belt tears periodically and it will drip sugar down. They have to stop it 

and fix the tear. This accumulation in the picture did not happen over night, this 

accumulation was probably over a week or two. I do not remember motors burning out 

because of accumulation. 

Dust - 21 - No. 10 Production Scroll, 5th floor, Hwnmer Room It has been about 6 

months prior to the explosion, I went up there and it looked good. Bruce called me to go 

look at the area after they had cleaned. He and I have a good working relationship. It is 

not common to see the accumulation in this area like the photo. I do not specifically 

remember anyone complaining about sugar dust. 

Dust 14 - No. I Bulk Scroll, 1

st Floor House - We were probably trying the keep water 

leaks out. They were working on trying seals some holes because when they wash down 

it leaks through the holes. I have seen the motor look like this before. I know this area in 

the last 6 months has been in very good shape. I have seen accumulation on the scroll 

within the last 6 - 8 months. 

I have never recommended anyone be written up and I do not get involved with the 

administration ofdisciplinary action. Years ago when I started the company had a 

cleaning crew. It was to cull out where employees would best fit. Stokes was in place 

during this time when there was a cleaning crew. We had Kirby contractor but I think 

they were for production no cleaning. I do not know ifStokes number of employees have 

changed in the past year. 

I left at 4:30 pm the day ofthe incident. We was preparing and a little extra cleaning was 

going on but I don't think there had to be that much more cleaning. I think we were 

ready for AlB inspection. Everything to me is fuzzy that day. I think we walked through 

that morning but I don't think we did the I:00 pm walkthrough. I was not here during the 

explosion but I came back. I did not step foot inside the building. I do not know what 

buckets elevators were working that day. 

Fires: A bolt went through the dust collector and I went and looked at it and Pevey took 

the investigation from there. I remember a powder mill motor once which was no more 

than a couple years ago. There was on in raw sugar whse elevator where fire dept 

responded. I don't know where it was and I don't know the reason. I remember years ago 

forklift caught on house behind the WS warehouse. I would have knowledge offires of 

forklifts. Part ofthe forklift responsibility is to wash forklifts to wash radiators and keep 

dust from forklift. 

Dust Collectors: Dust collectors are used to keep dust out ofthe air because it could get a 

spark and catch fire. I do not know ifit is because ofquality. I do not know when they 

are installed. They are maintained by the GO Shop. I do not know how they are 

maintained. I know they have stockings filters. I do not know anything about the 

maintenance ofthe ductwork or ifanyone is using meters to check velocity. I have had 

no inadequacies raised to me about the dust collection system by employee or managers. 

This wasn't my responsibility so I let whoever's job it was take care ofit. I know that we 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000726 
had a dust collector that was being completely rebuilt. The one that blew. Eddie told 

Charlie" You told me not to use blew." Charlie says "No I didn't." Kurt says, you mean 

vented. 

I know a little about classification. We know about NEMA cabinets because they had 

seals in them because we did not want water in them. I have heard about explosion proof 

motors and we were suppose to be replacing them but I don't know how far they have 

gotten with this. NEMA 12 - fail proofwater proof/dust tight. I have never receive any 

formal training on NEMA but salemen would come in a taught to us about the electrical 

products. I do not know ifthis facility has ever been evaluated. I know we did an 

assessment on electrical panels. I have never been involved in ordering or purchasing 

electrical components. I do not know the classification in the areas for electrical 

equipment. I have never been told any area was classified. As far as I know, there are no 

areas that are classified. The newer equipment that we were putting in was explosion 

proof but I am sure there is older equipment that is still non explosion proof. 

There are a lot of fans used in the plant. The packing house had a chiller and fan to keep 

the area clean but I do not know ifthere were using fans. I do remember pedestal fans in 

Bosch room on each side which was about 10 feet from the machine. The southside of 

the packing house 2d floor there was one on the 20 - 2 bundler 2 lb consolidated 5- 6 ft 

from the machine. Behn and Bates I do not remember seeing a fan. I have seen a fan on 

3d floor powder but they also have air controlled chillers. They had fans to cool 

themselves. 

Vacuum system was located towards the manlift elevator at silo towards the hog but it 

did not do what we wanted so they quit using it. I don't think it has ran in the last few 

years. They had purchased air (pneumatic) vacuum cleaners throughout the packing 

house. A couple ofthem was brand new but I don't know when any ofthem was 

purchased. These are the only vacuums I know about. 

There are battery charging stations near Behn & Bates which is near powder packing 

operation. There has been no issue brought up about charging station being near the 

powder are. 

I had never been in the cornstarch bin until last week. 

Capital expenditure dealing with safety - catwalks, new forklift, disconnects. I cannot 

remember any upgrades or safety plans that did not come to fruition in the last 3 years. 

Last year was the first year that I had an opportunity to sit in on plans for the upcoming 

year. 

Production demand is higher in the last few years and I'd hope we are selling more sugar 

now than we did. Within the last 10 years, the production has increased because ofnew 

machines. 

I have been on top ofB& C bins where they replaced the new catwalks. 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000727 
I have read the foregoing statement of__pages, and each page has been numbered. I have 

initialed each correction and initialed or signed each page. I declare under penalty ofperjury 

under the laws ofthe United States ofAmerica that this statement istrue and correct to the best of 

my knowledge. I understand it is a felony under 18 U.S.C. 1001 to knowingly make a false 

statement or omit facts in relation to a federal investigation. I request that my statement be held 

confidential to the extent allowed by law -oR- initial here __to waive confidentiality. 

Signature Date 

Witness: 

Signature Date 

Page _ of_Pages Initials 

9 DOL-IMP-ATL 0000728 
Secretary ofLabor v. Imperial Sugar Company and Imperial-Savannah, L. P. 

OSHRC Docket No. 08-1104 

Respondents' Opposition to Complainant's Motion for Leave to Take the Depositions
 

of Witnesses Who Were Interviewed under Oath by OSHA During the Investigation
 

Administrative Law Judge Covette Rooney
 

Exhibit B
 

Relevant Portions ofTranscript ofDeposition of Edward Jaudon
 

Filed Electronically on August 25,2009
 
Capital Reporting Company 

E. Jaudon 

Page 1 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
 

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND
 

HEALTH REVIEW COMMISSION
 

SECRETARY OF LABOR, 

Complainant, 

vs. DOCKET NO. 

08-1104 

IMPERIAL SUGAR COMPANY, 

IMPERIAL-SAVANNAH LP, 

Respondents. 

Tuesday, July 21, 2009 

Savannah, Georgia 

Deposition of 

EDWARD JAUDON 

called for examination by counsel for the 

Complainant, pursuant to notice, held at the 

Hilton Garden Inn Airport, 80 Clyde E. Martin 

Drive, Savannah, Georgia, at 9:26 a.m., before 

Bonnie Marcus Olachea, a notary public in and 

for the State of South Carolina, when were 

present on behalf of the respective parties: 

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Capital Reporting Company 

E. Jaudon 

Page 34 

1 A. Electrical and instrumentation.
 

2 Q. That answers the riddle because I was
 

3 trying to figure out why the printing fell under
 

4 the electrical shop.
 

5 So you were in the E&I shop for 11
 

6 years and then -- is that right?
 

7 A. In 2004 I went to the safety
 

8 department.
 

9 Q. Okay. Just for clarification what
 

10 position -- what's, what's Larry Cobb's title? 

11 A. He was the -- we called him the chief 

12 electrician. The appropriate title is probably 

13 the supervisor. 

14 Q. Was there anyone between Larry and you 

15 in terms ofsupervision? 

16 A. No, ma'am. 

17 Q. All right. And so then in 2004 you 

18 went over to the safety department. And what 

19 position did you -­

20 A. I was the behavior based safety 

21 facilitator. 

22 Q. And do you remember what month in 2004 

23 you went over? 

24 A. I think I actually got the position in 

25 April. Because the printer technician was very 

Page 35 

1 precise in training people how to use it and my 

2 transition was kind of back and forth a little 

3 bit. I want to say it was April. 

4 Q. Oh, did you have to kind of train a 

5 replacement? 

6 A. Yes, ma'am. I kind of had to go back 

7 here and there for a couple months. 

8 Q. Why did you -- did you see this 

9 opening over in the safety department? Or did 

10 someone tap you and say, hey, do you want to -­

11 are you interested in this position? 

12 How did you -- how did you end up over 

13 in safety? 

14 A. I was a part of the steering 

15 committee. And I think there were three 

16 selections, two or three people selected to move 

17 in that position when Doug was fixing to move. 

18 Doug was the facilitator and Doug was fixing to 

19 move up to a new position. 

20 And that position had come open, and I 

21 remember we had -- I was given a test. And I'm 

22 sure it had something to do with the test for 

23 the position and my involvement in the process 

24 while Doug was a facilitator. 

25 So to answer your question I was 

10 (Pages 34 to 37) 

Page 36 

1 offered the position. 

2 Q. Okay. Who offered you the position? 

3 A. Doug offered it to me. 

4 Q. You said you were you part of the 

5 steering committee. Were you part of that 

6 steering committee while you were in the E&I 

7 shop? 

8 A. Yes, ma'am. 

9 Q. And what steering committee was that? 

10 A. That was behavior based safety. 

11 Q. Is there a -- is there a -­

12 A. BBS. 

13 Q. BBS? 

14 A. BBS. 

15 Q. When did you -- when did you join the 

16 steering committee, do you remember? 

17 A. Say in mid 2002 maybe. 

18 Q. Were you asked to do that or did 

19 you -­

20 A. It was -- yes, ma'am. I'm sorry to 

21 interrupt. 

22 Q. That's okay. 

23 A. It was a, a voluntary basis to be a 

24 part of the steering committee or an observer, 

25 and I volunteered. 

Page 37 

1 Q. What was the difference between being, 

2 being on the steering committee versus being an 

3 observer? 

4 A. An observer you would actually go out 

5 and do observations. It was an peer to peer 

6 safety observation and you'd go watch the 

7 behaviors of personnel on the floor performing a 

8 job. And you would take like a check sheet and 

9 you would look for their safe behaviors and 

10 you'd look for there at-risk behaviors. 

11 Q. Did you ever do that? Were you ever 

12 an observer? 

13 A. Yes, ma'am. 

14 Q. When were you an observer? 

15 A. Right from -­

16 Q. I mean was that part of being on the 

17 steering committee -­

18 A. Yes. 

19 Q. -- or was that separate? 

20 A. It was -- you could be an observer but 

21 not on the steering committee. I'm just 

22 throwing a number out. I think there was like 

23 over a hundred observers, but there was only 

24 like 12 people on the steering committee. 

25 The selection process of who wanted to 

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E. Jaudon 

Page 38 

1 be an observer would be -- they'll come and ask 

2 me, you know, if! would be interested, sat down 

3 and talked to me and tell me what -- basically 

4 what safety was all about and ask me if I'd be 

5 interested in becoming an observer. 

6 Q. Did you do that first and then -­

7 A. Yes, ma'am, I did that. And then it 

8 worked it's way into -- I became part ofthe 

9 steering committee. 

10 Q. Okay, I understand. Do you recall 

11 when you did your, your Ojai, California 

12 training? 

13 Was that -- do you remember when that 

14 was? 

15 A. It was pretty quick and, you know, 

16 right after I got my job. 

17 Q. In safety? 

18 A. Yes, ma'am. Yes, that was a part of 

19 that. 

20 Q. SO do you think that probably happened 

21 sometime in 2004? 

22 A. I'd say 2004. Early -- late or early 

23 2005. I don't remember exactly. 

24 Q. And have you been with the safety 

25 department in 2004 all the way to current? 

Page 39 

1 A. Yes,ma'am.
 

2 Q. Have you held any other positions in
 

3 addition to the behavior based safety
 

4 facilitator?
 

5 A. That has been my primary position.
 

6 Q. Is that your official title still?
 

7 A. I was the behavior based safety
 

8 facilitator up to -­

9 Can I explain, explain something?
 

10 Q. Sure. 

11 A. Behavior based facilitator is 

12 something that behavior science technology, BBS, 

13 puts out -- or BST puts out. And they request 

14 each, each participant of each group, each 

15 company, to have what they call a facilitator. 

16 Facilitator is more or less a data 

17 collecting. You collect all this data, all the 

18 observations that the associates do. 

19 THE WITNESS: Can I run to the 

20 restroom? 

21 MS. MOCK: Sure. We'll take a break.
 

22 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
 

23 BY MR. MOCK:
 

24 Q. All right. We're back on the record.
 

25 Okay, Eddie, you were -- you were
 

11 (Pages 38 to 41) 

Page 40 

1 getting ready to explain I guess kind ofwhat 

2 the behavior based facilitator does. 

3 Do you want to go ahead and finish 

4 that? 

5 A. Yes, ma'am. My primary function was 

6 to track the data. 

7 Q. What data? 

8 A. Observations. When the associates 

9 would perform the observations they would tum 

10 them in and all this had to be put into the 

11 BAPP-Trac system. It's a computer based system 

12 that BST puts out. 

13 Q. And that's B-A-P-P? 

14 A. Yes, ma'am. 

15 Q. T-R-A-C? 

16 A. Yes. 

17 Q. All right. We won't worry about the 

18 acronym there. 

19 A. No. I don't want to. 

20 Q. SO you would be entering the data 

21 collected? 

22 A. Right. That was a very, very time 

23 consuming process. It was -- everything had to 

24 be hand-typed in into the computer. 

25 Q. SO, so how long or I mean are you 

Page 41 

1 still the facilitator or do you have -­

2 What's your official title now? 

3 A. Coordinator. 

4 Q. Safety coordinator? 

5 A. Safety coordinator. 

6 Q. And when did you become the safety 

7 coordinator? 

8 A. It was in 2007. Part of being the 

9 facilitator -- that's why I'm trying to explain 

10 it -- is BST recommended when they first started 

11 out -- I'm not even sure when BST first started. 

12 But they used to recommend that the facilitator 

13 would be someone from the steering committee, be 

14 selected from the steering committee. And they 

15 would do the data input from anywhere from one 

16 to two years. 

17 So going into it I kind of understood 

18 that it was going to be just a temporary 

19 position according to what BST recommended. 

20 Later on I'm not sure of the dates or when but 

21 BST actually recognized that changing 

22 facilitators sometimes actually hurt the 

23 process. 

24 So, instead of me changing out in the 

25 year, two years, you know, whatever the time 

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E. Jaudon 

12 (Pages 42 to 45) 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

1 5 

1 6 

1 7 

1 8 

19 

2 0 

2 1 

2 2 

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2 4 

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Page 42 

limit was, I remained -- I continued to be the 

facilitator. And I guess with my work ethics, 

and I was coming up with new ways of collecting 

data that made things just a little bit easier, 

they decided to keep me on, continuing to do 

that job with some things that I had personally 

developed with some ofthe teams there at the 

~~

I developed a little easier way to 

input the data and it kind offreed a little bit 

ofmy time up and that's when -- right at that 

time -- I can't remember exact dates but they 

decided to keep me on and just changed my title 

from facilitator to coordinator. I did go on 

salary at that time. 

And it was about the time that -- I 

think Mr. Sheptor was coo. He started 

requesting that -- we started looking at doing 

JSA's. So that was a new branch of, ofmy job 

to start performing JSA's. 

Q. When, when you -- you mentioned that 

when you became the safety coordinator you were 

on salary. Were you hourly when you were the 

facilitator? 

A. Yes, ma'am. That's hourly. 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

1 5 

1 6 

17 

18 

19 

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2 2 

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24 

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Page 44 

When John came aboard he -­ we was 

having steering committee meetings once a month. 

And that's when we would -- you know, would take 

all the data that we had learned. We started 

writing the JSA's and stuff like that. And John 

had challenged us to do 300 JSA's in the period 

ofayear. 

And I remember that we requested that 

it was hard to do with just having the steering 

committee once a month. And he okayed to have 

two steering committee meetings a month or 

16 hours a month with the steering committee in 

order to get a lot of that done. 

Q. All right. Well, we'll, we'll circle 

back to the JSA's probably at some point but 

let's -- I want to just so I can kind of -­

Oh, well, you mentioned him. So when 

you joined the safety department as the 

facilitator, who was your supervisor? 

A. Darin Pevey. 

Q. Darin Pevey? 

A. Yes. 

Q. That's P-E-V-E-Y. 

Was there a supervisor up above Darin? 

A. I don't want to speak for Darin but 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

1 0 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

1 7 

1 8 

1 9 

20 

2 1 

22 

2 3 

2 4 

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Page 43 

Q. To your knowledge did your employer 

change when you went from hourly to salary in 

any way? I mean who was your -- who did you 

understand your employer to be? 

A. Darin Pevey. 

Q. Oh, no, no, not your supervisor -­

A. Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry. 

Q. -- your employer. You know, like my 

employer -­

A. Oh, Imperial Sugar? As far as I know 

everything stayed the same. 

Q. Okay, okay. And what was your 

understanding ofwho your employer was, Imperial 

Sugar? 

A. Imperial Sugar. 

Q. Have you heard of a company called 

Imperial Savannah, LP? 

A. No, ma'am. I have been asked that 

question but I haven't heard of it. 

Q. All right. 

A. So that's when we started developing 

the -- still continuing doing the observations, 

still having to put the information in the -­

into the computer system database, but we 

started using the steering committee. 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

1 7 

1 8 

1 9 

20 

2 1 

22 

23 

2 4 

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Page 45 

Darin's position changed a little bit there, 

too. 

Q. Well, I guess my question is that, you 

know, did you understand that you had a 

supervisor that you had to answer to up above 

Darin? 

A. Philip Rowland I guess would have been 

the next. 

Q. That's R-O-W-L-A-N-D. 

A. I'd say that's right about the time 

moved into his positions. 

Q. What was your understanding what 

position Darin held when he was your supervisor? 

A. Darin was not the actual safety 

manager. He had a -- he had a different title 

and I'm not sure what it was. 

Q. And is Darin still your supervisor? 

A. Yes. 

Q. And do you -- has your -- has the 

second level supervisor changed at all since -­

I mean Philip Rowland's no longer with the 

company, so is there somebody else that you 

considered -­

A. Aamir Mausoof had stepped in, you 

know, there in the temporary until they hired 

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E. Jaudon 

Page 46 

1 Thomas.
 

2 Q. Until they hired who?
 

3 A. Thomas Rathka.
 

4 Q. How do you spell Thomas' last name?
 

5 A. R-A-T-H-K-A.
 

6 Q. Okay. And Aamir Mausoof, it's
 

7 A-A-M-I-R, M-A-U-S-O-O-F.
 

8 Has Doug Sikes ever been in your
 

9 supervisory chain?
 

10 A. I think Doug went to corporate, right.
 

11 Q. Who does your -- do you have a
 

12 perfonnance evaluation?
 

13 A. Eval? Yes.
 

14 Q. And how often is your perfonnance?
 

15 A. Each year.
 

16 Q. Okay. Do they do that -- do they do
 

17 that -- is it the same time for everybody or is
 

18 it like-­

19 When is your evaluation done?
 

20 A. At the same time as everybody else's.
 

21 I'm not sure exactly what month it's done. And
 

22 when you just said that it just brought
 

23 something to my attention. Mike Kelly actually
 

24 done my 2004 and '05 maybe.
 

25 Q. And who is Mike Kelly?
 

Page 47 

1 A. Mike Kelly -- I think his title at
 

2 that time -- don't hold me to it. I think he
 

3 was the agent, environmental health.
 

4 Q. He was what?
 

5 A. Environmental and health and safety
 

6 manager.
 

7 Q. Is he still with the company?
 

8 A. Yes, ma'am.
 

9 Q. Do you have -- do you sign off on your
 

10 evaluation, you know, like after they give it to
 

11 you?
 

12 A. Yes.
 

13 Q. Who did your evaluation this year?
 

14 I'm sorry if I asked you that.
 

15 A. Darin.
 

16 Q. Darin did. Does somebody else in
 

17 addition to Darin Pevey sign off on it?
 

18 A. I'm not sure.
 

19 Q. SO as the -- when you were the
 

20 behavior safety facilitator, what were your
 

21 responsibilities in addition to -- if any, in
 

22 addition to collecting the data on the -- from
 

23 the observations?
 

24 A. I was over the -- lining up the
 

25 steering committee.
 

13 (Pages 46 to 49) 

Page 48 

1 Q. Okay. So you were -- were you like -­

2 A. Kind of over -­

3 Q. -- you were the chair ofthe steering 

4 committee? 

5 A. Yes, ma'am. I was chair. That's what 

6 I was trying to say. 

7 Q. All right. And so what, what 

8 responsibilities did that entail? What did you 

9 have to do there? 

10 A. We, we would come up with action plans 

11 ofthe observations that had been perfonned. We 

12 would take the data that had been collected and, 

13 and work on an action plan and project. 

14 Q. What kind of action plans? 

15 A. Our biggest one was we took all the 

16 data and compiled it in our first -- what's 

17 still foregoing is lockoutltagout. 

18 Q. Any other big ones that come to mind? 

19 A. No, ma'am. That's the one. 

20 Q. Okay. So while you were a facilitator 

21 you were the chair ofthe steering committee, 

22 you were collecting the data. 

23 Any, any other responsibilities? 

24 A. That was a full day I promise. 

25 Q. And when, when you became the safety 

.Page 49 

1 coordinator in 2007, is it accurate to say you 

2 still were -­

3 Were you still the chair of the 

4 steering committee? 

5 A. Yes, ma'am. 

6 Q. Okay. And you mentioned that, that 

7 you all started doing the JSA. 

8 Job safety analysis -­

9 A. Right. 

10 Q. -- or is it job safety assessment? 

11 A. Analysis. 

12 Q. And any other duties that got added on 

13 while you -- when you became the safety 

14 coordinator? 

15 A. Yes, ma'am. We worked with 

16 lockoutltagout procedures. 

17 Q. What do you mean by that? You worked 

18 with lockoutltagout procedures? 

19 A. Writing specific. Like a JSA is the 

20 specific. Job safety analysis, lockoutltagout 

21 for specific equipment. 

22 Q. Okay. 

23 A. Part of our -­

24 Q. SO the actual instructions on how to 

25 lock out a particular -­

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14 (Pages 50 to 53) 

Page 50 Page 52 

1 A. Right. Part of our action plan, too, 1 with my guys that helped me, developed the 

2 like I said earlier, the steering committee was 2 bubble sheet, which made the input a little 

3 -- you take the -­ 3 easier and freed up some of our time because now 

4 Behavior based safety is watching the 4 we've got to start putting in JSA's and al1 this 

5 behaviors of people, okay, and their reactions. 5 stuff has to be put into the computer. 

6 You know, what can we do to make their jobs 6 Q. What were you using before the bubble 

7 easier? You know, whatever. That's why 7 sheets? How were you tracking the observations? 

8 lockoutltagout came about. A lot of people had 8 What were you using before, and then 

9 remarked that they didn't have ways of locking 9 how did the bubble sheets make it easier? 

1 a out their equipment without having to go a long lOA. Before, you took a sheet, same sheet. 

11 way away from their piece of equipment to do it. 11 The bubble sheet kind of mirrored it. But the 

12 So we were going to make it user friendly, easy 12 first sheet, you just took it, you went out. 

1 3 for them to do, and they would be more apt to do 13 You had to write in al1 your information. 

14 it. 1 4 And then when al1 that was brought 

1 5 So we had disconnects, you know, 15 back, you had to type in al1 that information. 

1 6 mounted. The company had given us some 16 Q. And, and try to figure out people's 

17 contractors to actual1y do the work. We would 1 7 handwriting? 

1 8 come up with the areas as a steering committee 18 A. And try to figure out people's 

1 9 ofwhere we wanted to start having them instal1, 1 9 handwriting and different things like that. But 

2 a and the electricians would go out and actual1y 2 0 the program we developed with the bubble sheet, 

2 1 instal1 them in those areas. As they instal1ed 21 of course, you know, you just fil1 in the 

22 them we would try to keep up with the 22 bubbles. And instead of putting checkmarks or 

2 3 procedures. 23 writing something, at risk or whatever, it would 

2 4 With the steering committee we had 24 have the question. We'd just bubble it in and 

2 5 like tried to get different people from 2 5 we would put it into a scanner. 

Page 51 Page 53 

1 different groups throughout the plan. It wasn't 1 And the scanner would scan it in, kind 

2 al1 from one location. It's from different, 2 of like the lottery works, and it would input 

3 different areas ofthe plan. So we utilized 3 that data for you. 

4 their know-how and ability to, you know, work 4 Q. How much time were you -- were you 

5 with people in their department even while we're 5 able to -- once you became the facilitator but 

6 not having a steering committee meeting. 6 before you became the coordinator, so in that 

7 They could work with them outside to 7 time frame of 2004 to 2007, how much time -- you 

8 see where the best locations and stuff like that 8 were saying that -- you were saying that 

9 was. 9 col1ecting this data took a lot of time. 

10 Q. SO -- okay. So I'm getting a sense of 10 How much time were you each week able 

11 a lot oftime focused on, on the lockoutltagout 11 to go out into the facility and, and look at -­

12 procedures and getting the disconnects 12 and do some of that observing? Did you do some 

13 instal1ed. 13 ofthat observing still? 

1 4 Any, any other additional duties once 14 A. Yes, ma'am. I tried my best to go at 

1 5 you became safety coordinator? 15 least an hour a day out into the plant. That 

1 6 A. Still again, you know, tracking the 1 6 did not always happen. 

1 7 data on the -- developing new and different ways 17 Q. What was your shift, eight-hour shift? 

18 of -- I know you've heard of machine bubble 1 8 A. No, ma'am. It was just from -- I 

19 sheets. I know you've heard us say, the bubble 19 usually came in at 6:30, and I left sometimes 

2 a sheets. That's what we call them. 20 4:30,5:00. Sometimes I would work eight. 

21 Q. And so the bubble sheets are what, are 21 Q. What's -- I just want to -- I want to 

22 these observations -­ 22 backtrack just a little bit before we get -- go 

23 A. We took what we had to put in the 23 too -- a little more heavily into, into -­

24 BAPP-trac system that -- I tel1 you it's just so 2 4 When you came on board with Imperial 

2 5 time consuming. It was very hard. And I, along 2 5 -- in what, 1980? 

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1 6 

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1 8 

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2 0 

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Page 70 

exactly how they were updated. 1 

Q. Well, was that the intent? That if! 2 

wanted to go -- if! wanted to go and look for a 3 

-- I guess my question is this, Eddie. If! 4 

wanted to go and say, okay, I want to look at 5 

all ofthe MSDS that are covering Imperial at 6 

Port Wentworth, could I go to any ofthose 7 

locations and expect to find all ofthem? 8 

Or was there just one location that 9 

was like the master? This is the complete set. 10 

A. Again, it was just my understanding -­ 11 

I got this in training, that you could go to -­ 12 

when a new MSDS came in, it's my understanding 13 

all the books were updated and a copy was 1 4 

scanned in on the N-drive. 15 

Q. Prior to the explosion did you ever 1 6 

look at the MSDS? 1 7 

A. Yes, ma'am. 18 

Q. When did you do that? 1 9 

A. I would say it was -- are you asking 20 

if! looked at one specifically for a reason, or 21 

just looked at the MSDS issues? 22 

Q. Let's break it down. Did you go to 23 

look at one for a particular reason? 24 

A. Yes. 25 

Page 71 

Q. Okay. What one was that? 1 

A. It was one on sophoric acid. 2 

Q. And why did you look at that one? 3 

A. I was in the plant with Doug Sikes. I 4 

don't remember our reason for been there. We'd 5 

seen some. Looked like it had just been brought 6 

in, and where they had them stored, whether it 7 

was temporary or they was going to move them. 8 

Doug questioned the guy if he knew how 9 

to handle that product. And, you know, it was 10 

Mexicans and -­ 11 

Q. The workers were Mexican? 12 

A. He said he didn't know the MSD issues 13 

so don't, don't stop them or whatever. We went 14 

and pulled the MSD issue, come back, got his 15 

supervisor, and went over the MSD issues with 16 

them. 17 

Q. Where in the plant were you guys 18 

located? 1 9 

A. We were standing in Hackett Valley 20 

adjacent to Donald Snipes' office. 21 

Q. Who's Donald Snipes? 22 

A. He is the supervisor of the 23 

maintenance. 2 4 

Q. Prior to February 7 did you have any 25 

Page 72 

role in maintaining the material safety data 

sheets? 

A. No. 

Q. And did you have an occasion at any 

other time to look at the MSDS on file? 

A. No. 

Q. Did you ever see a material safety 

data sheet for sugar? 

A. No. 

Q. SO in your entire -- in your entire 

time, never saw one for -­

A. I cannot recall any time. 

Q. Were MSDS ever shown as part of the -­

as part ofthe -- as part ofthe safety 

training, the annual safety training? 

A. Yes, ma'am. 

Q. I mean specific, specific examples of 

one? 

A. How to -- what I remember about it is 

they asked us -- you take different groups and 

whoever was leading it would say, you know, to 

look up -- show you how to look it up. And they 

would like put one out. And they had different 

teams that would show you how to look up 

different MSD issues and they showed you how to 

Page 73 

look them up in the book. 

You had to write down like 1-800 

number that you had to call. The PPE that you 

had to wear, that was part of birthday safety 

training. 

Q. All right. On sugar and sugar dust, 

did you understand that sugar -- that sugar dust 

was combustible? 

A. I had been told that. Yes, ma'am. 

Q. Okay. When were you told that? 

A. In a class. The first time I remember 

being told about that was when Stuart Ecksley 

was safety director. 

Q. Okay. Explain to me what you were 

told, what you -- not, not words for word, but 

what was your take-away from what Mr. Ecksley 

told you? 

A. Sugar dust was combustible. I don't 

know -- I don't remember to what extent he went 

into -- I just -- I remember him saying it was 

combustible. 

Q. Okay. What did that mean to you? 

What did he explain? I mean combustible's, you 

know. What did that mean to you or what did he 

tell you that meant? 

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Page 74 

1 A. That it could blow up.
 

2 Q. It could blow up, okay. What else did
 

3 he tell you?
 

4 A. I don't remember in grand detail.
 

5 Q. Was this part of a -- was this part of
 

6 an annual safety, you know, a birthday training?
 

7 A. Yes.
 

8 Q. Do you remember where you were working
 

9 at the time that he gave that annual training?
 

10 Were you still in E&I? 

11 A. I'm wanting to say I was still in the 

12 warehouse in one ofthe positions that was 

13 there. I don't even know why I recall Stuart 

14 teaching the class that I was first told. I 

15 just remember that's who I first heard it from. 

16 Q. Was there -- did Stuart explain how it 

17 was combustible or -- I mean that's, that's kind 

18 of a big thing to just kind of put out there. 

19 A. Right. 

20 Q. SO I guess I'm trying to get a better 

21 sense of what he talked about or how he 

22 explained it. 

23 A. I think that Stuart had explained it 

24 in a way evidently that it stuck in my head and 

25 that's why I recall. And how much time he spent 

Page 75 

1 on it, no, or the detail that he went in.
 

2 Q. SO what did it mean to you when he -­

3 when he said, it could explode?
 

4 A. That the dust part of it with the
 

5 right ignition source I guess, it could catch
 

6 fire.
 

7 Q. Okay. Was this that sugar dust was
 

8 combustible? Did you hear that at any other
 

9 safety, birthday safety trainings after the one
 

10 from Mr. Ecksley? 

11 A. Pretty sure it was taught in each, 

12 each year. I don't remember in grand detail 

13 again what parts were talked about but -­

14 Q. SO it wasn't -- I mean it wasn't just 

15 a one-time -- I mean -­

16 A. Oh, no, no. I'm sorry, yeah. 

17 Q. SO, was it -- was it -- you know, I 

18 mean was it reiterated each year to people? Was 

19 it reinforced each year? 

20 A. It would have been a part of -­

21 Pevey's part that heat's all in it. I know it 

22 was covered. I don't remember the extent, how 

23 much time they spent on it. 

24 Q. But I mean do you have a specific 

25 recollection of Darin Pevey talking about it? 

20 (Pages 74 to 77) 

Page 76 

1 A. Yeah. He had on his slides and all. 

2 I remember that. 

3 Q. Well, okay, let me rephrase that. We 

4 talked about sugar dust. Was there ever any 

5 discussion that sugar was combustible? 

6 A. The granulated? 

7 Q. Yes. 

8 A. I'm not sure. 

9 Q. And what about powdered sugar, was 

10 there any discussion that powdered sugar was 

11 combustible? 

12 A. I don't recall them specifically 

13 saying which sugar. 

14 Q. What did you -- when, when they said 

15 sugar dust was combustible, what did you -- was 

16 it explained to you what they were talking 

17 about, what kind of sugar dust? 

18 A. Particles in the air, whether it came 

19 from the granulator or it came from the powder. 

20 Q. What's a granulator? 

21 A. Granulated? 

22 Q. No. I thought you said whether it 

23 came from the granulator. 

24 A. Granulated sugar. 

25 Q. How would it come from granulated 

Page 77 

1 sugar? 

2 A. I guess by sweeping or -­

3 Q. Well, and what was your understanding 

4 of how sugar dust could be -- could be generated 

5 by granulated sugar? 

6 A. The -- to what extent are you talking 

7 dust? 

8 Q. Well, I guess what I'm trying to 

9 understand is they -- in safety training they're 

10 telling you sugar dust is combustible, right? 

11 A. Um-hmm. 

12 Q. SO that, you know, that leads me to 

13 the question of, okay, well, what kind of sugar 

14 dust? And you said granulated. 

15 And so I guess what I'm trying to 

16 understand is how does sugar dust -- how do you 

17 have sugar dust with granulated sugar? 

18 A. Okay. I'm not sure ofthe particles 

19 it might put out. I would say that, you know, 

20 there wouldn't be a lot of dust with granulated 

21 sugar. 

22 Q. But did you understand based on your 

23 experience in the facility that you would have 

24 sugar dust with granulated sugar? 

25 A. Yes. 

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Page 78
 

1 Q. What was your understanding of how the
 1 

2 sugar dust would be created in conjunction with 2

3 granulated sugar? 3

4 A. I don't -- I don't know how to answer 4

5 that. 5

6 Q. Well, would it be -- would it be-­ 6

7 would the sugar dust we kind of a byproduct of 7

8 when the granulated sugar's moved through the 8

9 product line? 9

lOA. Talking about already in the package 1 0 

11 or before? 11

12 Q. No, before. When it's on it's way to 12

1 3 being packaged. 13

1 4 A. I don't -- I don't recall the 14

1 5 granulated sugar dust ever being a -- me 15

1 6 personally, I don't -- I don't recall it being a 1 6 

1 7 big factor. 1 7 

18 Q. Well, what do you mean by that? 18

19 A. Well, I mean I've seen spills. But as 1 9 

2 0 far as putting out a dust form I don't know how 20

2 1 to explain that. 2 1 

22 Q. What do you mean a dust form? Do you 22

2 3 mean like a dust cloud? 23

24 A. You're asking me if the granulated 2 4 

25 sugar puts out -- how, how does it put out a 2 5 

Page 80 

you did see sugar dust that was -- I'm still not 

sure I fully understood the question of, you 

know,just because we make sugar we make dust. 

Q. No. And that's not what I'm -- that's 

not what I'm saying. What I'm trying to 

understand is that they're, they're telling you 

-- you know, they're telling you that we've -­

that sugar dust is combustible. 

A. Um-hrnrn. 

Q. SO I guess I'm asking you, why are 

they telling you that? Why did they tell you 

that? 

MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 

THE WITNESS: I guess data has proven 

somewhere down the line that sugar dust is 

explosive, and telling the people for your 

warnings I guess. 

BY MS. MOCK: 

Q. And based on your experience at the 

facility did you -- did you have occasions where 

you saw sugar dust in the air? 

A. Yes, I have. 

Q. Have you ever heard of before -­

keeping in mind before the accident, have you 

ever heard of a fire triangle? 

Page 79 Page 81 

1 dust? 1 A. Not to my recollection. We might have 

2 Q. Yes. How does it create dust? 2 had. 

3 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Okay. Had you ever heard of -- or, 

4 Q. I mean I guess I'm trying to 4 well, had you ever heard ofwhat -- you know, 

5 understand that, you know, they're -- in the 5 what's necessary to have a fire? I mean was 

6 birthday training they're telling you that, that 6 that ever explained as part of, part of safety 

7 we've got sugar dust. That's part of our 7 training? 

8 operation, right? 8 A. I'm sure it was, but I don't recall 

9 MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 9 that. 

10 THE WITNESS: Right. 10 Q. Before, before the accident did -­

11 BY MS. MOCK: 11 what was your understanding of what needed to 

12 Q. And is it accurate to say that sugar 12 exist in order to have, have a fire? 

13 dust is a byproduct ofmaking sugar products? 13 A. In order to have a fire? 

14 A. I don't know how to answer that. I 14 Q. Um-hmm. 

15 mean just -- I won't say anything. 15 A. Of course you've got to have an 

16 Q. Well, I guess I'm just trying to 16 ignition source and oxygen. 

17 understand that how -­ 1 7 Q. I'm sorry? 

18 Did you understand that, that sugar 18 A. Oxygen. 

19 dust would be generated in the process ofmaking 1 9 Q. Ignition source, oxygen and -­

20 powdered sugar? 2 0 anything else? 

21 A. Not necessarily. 21 A. The source ofwhatever's going to 

22 Q. Well, then why would -- why would they 22 bum. 

23 tell you about sugar dust being a concern, being 23 Q. Something that can burn? 

24 an explosion concern at all then? 24 A. Right. 

25 A. For when the -- when the times that 25 Q. What about had you ever -- had you 

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Page 82 Page 84 

1 ever -- prior to the accident did you lmow what 1 on their -- on themselves. 

2 you needed in order to have an explosion occur? 2 Q. Okay. And so when -- and is that the 

3 A. No, ma'am. 3 same data, the data that you -­

4 Q. You had mentioned that you had, had 4 A. Yes, ma'am. All the same data. 

5 seen sugar dust in the air. Where did -- where 5 Q. Okay. 

6 do you recall seeing sugar dust in the air? 6 A. I'm sorry. 

7 A. Fourth floor powder room. 7 MR. TUCKER: Let her fmish. 

8 Q. Is that the powder mill room? 8 BY MS. MOCK: 

9 A. Yes, ma'am. 9 Q. I just want to make sure we were 

10 Q. What goes on in the fourth floor 1 0 talking about the same thing. So you had 

11 powder mill room? 11 self-audits. And were the self-audits pretty 

12 A. My better understanding of that 12 much when you fIrst started doing the behavior 

13 because my job really never took me there much 13 -- the behavior-focused training? 

14 would be -­ 14 Is that what you started with, 

15 Q. Well, what was your understanding of 15 self-audits? 

16 what was being done in the powder mill room? 16 A. In 2004? 

17 A. Took granulated sugar and beat it down 17 Q. Yes. 

18 to about -- I mean enough. 18 A. No, ma'am. 

19 Q. Okay. 19 Q. What did you start with? Walk me 

2 0 A. That's kind of all I lmow about it. 2 0 through -- walk me through any changes that 

21 Q. That's a nice concise explanation. So 21 you've had in the audit process? 

22 that's -- I mean basically that's where you make 22 A. Okay. We fIrst started and BST 

2 3 powdered sugar? 23 recommends to change things up periodically. 

2 4 A. Yes, ma'am. 2 4 Everything just -- oh, it was a peer to peer. 

25 Q. Anywhere else that you had seen sugar 2 5 In other words I would go to you, do the 

Page 83 Page 85 

1 dust in the air? 1 observation on you. And I would actually look 

2 A. Not to my recollection. 2 for safer at-risk behaviors. It was all based 

3 Q. What do they do -- have you heard of 3 on behaviors of a person and -­

4 the hummer room, H-U-M-M-E-R? 4 Q. Can I interject a question? Was it 

5 A. I've heard of it, yes. 5 done by someone who was within that same work 

6 Q. Do you know what -- do you know what 6 group? 

7 goes on in the hummer room? 7 A. No, ma'am. It could be done anywhere. 

8 A. No, ma'am, sure don't. 8 Q. Okay. So how if, if-- so is it 

9 Q. Did you -- you mentioned the, the 9 conceivable that you would have had somebody 

10 bubble sheets and I wanted to get a 10 from the E&I shop doing a peer-to-peer 

11 clarification on that. Did the bubble sheet 11 observation ofsomebody -- ofan operator, of 

12 system -- or actually did the observation system 12 the -- you know, the palletizer? 

13 did that change at all between when Philip 13 A. Sure. 

1 4 Rowland was the plant manager and Aamir Mausoof 1 4 Q. How would the E&I person know what 

15 became the interim plant manager? 15 constituted or, you lmow, what made for good 

1 6 A. Did the process change any? 1 6 safe behavior on another piece of equipment? 

17 Q. Yes. 17 A. Okay. And again it was the behavior 

18 A. No. 18 ofthe person. You had CBl's. They're critical 

19 Q. No. 19 behavior inventory. It's the fIrst line of 

2 0 Did, did the number of observations 2 0 fire, pinch points. And you actually go down 

2 1 conducted change from Philip to Aamir? 2 1 this check sheet. And you're looking for 

22 A. At this time we was doing it just a 22 anything you might see from the CBl's that this 

23 little bit different. We were doing 23 associate may be doing or performing. And it 

24 self-audits. Everybody, everybody in the plant 24 had to be the stuff like fans, different things 

25 was responsible to fill out safety observation 25 like that. 

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23 (Pages 86 to 89) 

Page 86 Page 88 

1 You're more or less specifically 1 A. I want to say one of the guys stuck 

2 focusing on the data you want to collect. 2 his hand in the machine and it wasn't locked 

3 Q. Have you ever observed -- have you 3 out, cut some fingers off. 

4 ever observed an operator of a machine where, 4 Q. Do you have any understanding what 

5 where the machine -- where the box or the bag 5 your recollection was of -­

6 gets jammed up and they have to try to grab it 6 Do you remember what machine it was? 

7 out to get it, you know, before it gets -- jams 7 A. I want to say it was one of the 

8 up the machine anymore? 8 one-pound powders. 

9 A. I can't recall a time that I've 9 Q. What floor would that have been? 

1 0 actually been performing an observation and lOA. Third floor. I know when the 

11 somebody do that. 11 investigation was going on we were looking to 

12 Q. But have you heard of that? 12 make sure the disconnect was there. I don't 

13 A. Yes. 1 3 remember a grand bit of detail about it. 

14 Q. Have you -- are you familiar with the 14 Q. What, what cut his fmger, the tips of 

15 idea that, you know, if you can grab it real 15 his fmgers off? 

1 6 quick it's -- and get the -- get the unjammed 1 6 A. I'm not sure about that. 

1 7 package out, you know, you're okay. But if it 1 7 Q. Is it some device that cuts the bag 

1 8 gets too far in you might be really getting 18 or-­

1 9 yourself in the zone of danger in terms of like 19 A. I'm, I'm trying to do this from 

2 0 a pinch or getting your hand caught in the 20 memory. I think I heard it was the gearbox or 

21 machine? 21 chain or something. I don't want to say I know 

2 2 MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 22 that's right. 

23 mE WITNESS: No, ma'am. That's, 23 Q. Would that be an example where, where 

2 4 that's not -- that would be considered as a, 24 there may have been that, that he -- he could 

25 like you said, pinch point or line of fire. The 2 5 have -- that he could try to pull the -- you 

Page 87 Page 89 

1 machine should be locked out, shut down and 1 know, like unjam the machine up to a point 

2 locked out. 2 before he gets to a danger point? 

3 BY MS. MOCK: 3 A. I can't speculate that about it. I 

4 Q. And I'm not trying to put words in 4 don't, I don't know. You should never stick 

5 your mouth, Eddie. I'm just trying to 5 your hand in a machine while it's -- while it's 

6 understand that is there -- have you ever heard 6 running. 

7 of or, you know, heard reports basically of 7 Q. Oh, I agree with that. 

8 someone, you know, going, going too far and 8 A. It should always be turned off. It 

9 basically putting themselves in the zone of 9 should always be locked out. 

10 danger instead of locking the machine out to 10 Q. No, I mean I agree that if it -- I 

11 retrieve a stuck package? 11 apologize, Eddie. This is -- you know, this is 

12 MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 12 just more for my, my education in terms oflike 

13 THE WITNESS: I don't recall a 13 a peer to peer. Going back to kind of the peer 

14 specific time. 14 to peer. Because really my question is, is that 

15 BY MS. MOCK: 15 how -- you know, if you've got somebody from, 

16 Q. But have you ever heard of that, that 16 you know, a -- you know, operating a machine 

1 7 happening or a discussion of a -- of a near miss 1 7 that is coming over and doing a peer-to-peer 

18 or an injury because of that kind of behavior ? 18 observation on somebody else on a piece of 

19 MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 19 equipment that they're not that familiar with, 

20 THE WITNESS: I'm thinking of an 20 how, how do you insure that that person, who's 

21 injury in my mind right now but I didn't 21 the observer, really understands what all the, 

2 2 investigate it. 22 the possible dangerous behaviors are? 

23 BY MS. MOCK: 23 A. Right. They actually go through an 

24 Q. Can you explain to me the one you're 24 observation training, a class. 

25 thinking of? 25 Q. Okay. 

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Page 90 

1 A. We train them on each ofthe CBI's,
 

2 critical behavior inventory, and, you know,
 

3 what to look for.
 

4 Q. Okay.
 

5 A. Now on the reality it was hard for an
 

6 operator to leave his station and go to another
 

7 station say. In reality, most observations were
 

8 more or less peer-to-peer within your department
 

9 because it was easier to do.
 

10 Q. Why would it be hard?
 

11 A. Well, if you're -- mentioned awhile
 

12 ago about being an operator. Ifyou're an
 

13 operator you can't leave your area and just go
 

14 do that. So we tried to make this as user
 

15 friendly as possible.
 

16 Q. Okay. So, so going back to the
 

17 self-audits initially you said that, you know,
 

18 you guys started with peer to peer.
 

19 Did it change at some point?
 

20 A. Yes, ma'am.
 

21 Q. Okay. When did it change?
 

22 A. January of'07. We did a trial run in
 

23 November.
 

24 Q. Of'06?
 

25 A. Of'06.
 

24 (Pages 90 to 93) 

Page 92 

1 A. Yes.
 

2 Q. They weren't doing them?
 

3 A. No.
 

4 Q. Okay. All right. And then did it -­

5 did it change again at some point between late
 

6 '06, early '07 and, and the explosion?
 

7 A. No, ma'am. The sheets did not change.
 

8 They stayed the same data.
 

9 Is that what you're asking?
 

10 Q. Yes. So, so the, the behavior 

11 analysis didn't shift at all after Philip 

12 Rowland left, is that what you're saying? 

13 A. We had done -- you're saying -- you're 

14 saying shifted. Just explain that. I'm not 

15 sure where you're going with it. 

16 Q. You know, you mentioned that you 

17 shifted from peer-to-peer to self-audit. 

18 A. Right. 

19 Q. And then I guess I'm just wondering 

20 after Philip Rowland left and Aamir became the 

21 plant manager, was there any other adjustment to 

22 this self-audit program? Or did you guys 

23 continue on with your self-audits as you had 

24 been doing them until February n 

25 A. No, ma'am. It was -- it was stopped. 

Page 91 Page 93 

1 Q. SO peer to peer was '04 to '06, late
 

2 '06, November '06?
 

3 A. Yes.
 

4 Q. Okay. And then what did you go to?
 

5 A. We went to the self.
 

6 Q. Self-audit?
 

7 A. Self-audit.
 

8 Q. Okay. And why was it changed to
 

9 self-audit?
 

10 A. Trying to get a hundred percent
 

11 involvement of each, each associate.
 

12 Q. But this was still voluntary?
 

13 A. It was more pushed from Philip's side
 

14 as mandatory. But you still had some associates
 

15 that didn't do as many as were requested.
 

16 Q. How many were requested?
 

17 A. Once a week.
 

18 Q. And was this plant-wide?
 

19 A. Yes. Are you talking about Imperial
 

20 employees?
 

21 Q. The audit. Yes. Um-hmm, yes.
 

22 A. Yes, ma'am.
 

23 Q. Since you mentioned that, were
 

24 contract employees excluded from the
 

25 self-audits?
 

1 It wasn't stopped by Aamir. The process was 

2 stopped and Graham Graham stopped it. Now I 

3 don't remember exact dates or -­

4 Q. All right. How did you leam that it 

5 was going to be stopped? 

6 A. I was sitting with him in a meeting. 

7 Told us to stop it. 

8 Q. Okay. Do you remember around about -­

9 was this in '06 or early 'on Do you remember? 

10 A. No, this was -- I think it's late '07 

11 when that mill was stopping it. 

12 Q. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I 

13 was using the wrong word -- I mean the wrong 

14 year. 

15 A. I know exactly wha!you're doing 

16 because I, I get those years mixed up. 

17 Q. SO you think it was that, that you 

18 stopped the self-audits in late '07? 

19 A. If! had to take a wild guess on the 

20 month I'd say October, November. I don't 

21 remember when Graham first started coming. 

22 Q. But not -- I mean it wasn't stopped in 

23 '08. Your recollection was that you guys 

24 stopped doing it in '077 

25 A. Oh, yes, ma'am. It stopped in '07. 

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Page 94 

1 Q. Okay. So what were you guys -- since
 

2 you were doing -- so the self-audit stopped.
 

3 So you didn't have any data to enter,
 

4 right?
 

5 A. Not on observations.
 

6 Q. SO what were you doing instead?
 

7 A. We soon met back up with the steering
 

8 committee. By this time we was doing bimonthly.
 

9 And we focused real hard on performing JSA's.
 

10 And we just threw our full focus on JSA's and 

11 forming some lockoutltagout procedures as they 

12 put them in. 

13 But my focus went from entering the 

14 observation data to full focus on data say on 

15 lockoutltagout. 

16 Q. Did you get involved in doing more -­

17 well, actually, once you -- once you took 

18 over -- when did you stop or did you ever 

19 stop -­

20 Did you ever stop doing observations? 

21 At what point did you stop? 

22 A. In -- when we started the self-audits? 

23 Q. Um-hrnm. 

24 A. Is when we stopped doing the 

25 peer-to-peer. 

Page 95 

1 Q. Right, okay.
 

2 A. But I missed something in there, too.
 

3 We still had that kind of in the -- in the
 

4 background.
 

5 Can I just explain something real
 

6 quick?
 

7 Q. Sure.
 

8 A. We had the, the safety self-audits,
 

9 okay.
 

10 Q. Okay. 

11 A. That's what the hourly associates 

12 would fill out once a week. Then-­

13 Q. Hopefully once a week, right? 

14 A. Hopefully once a week, okay. 

15 But then, also, you know, I never 

16 stopped trying to come up with new creative 

17 ideas. We had lockoutltagout on the sheets. 

18 That's where the supervisor would go do a 

19 peer-to-peer with his employees making sure they 

20 understood in -­

21 You had to do a proper lockoutltagout. 

22 Okay, we were -- as part of the steering 

23 committee we're installing all these 

24 disconnects, okay? 

25 Q. Making it easier for -­

25 (Pages 94 to 97) 

Page 96 

1 A. Making it easier for them to do it. 

2 Okay. The supervisors would go out and monitor. 

3 It was more or less we used it as a training. 

4 Okay, supervisor would go out and do a 

5 questionnaire. Do you know how to lockout and 

6 tagout? You go with a specific piece of 

7 equipment. And it was documented. It's in the 

8 database, too. 

9 We also did a PPE. 

10 Q. Okay. So a PPE audit similar to the 

11 lockoutltagout audit by the supervisor? 

12 A. Yes, ma'am. And it would be like, you 

13 know, do you know the proper way to like -­

14 where are your glasses, clean them. Questions 

15 were on there to make sure you knew. 

16 Then you had -- we still -- I don't 

17 remember. I want to say it was probably one of 

18 the last sheets that we had built was a manager, 

19 manager audit sheet. I can't remember the exact 

20 name I called it. 

21 Q. What was the purpose ofthe sheet? 

22 A. It kind ofwent back to the, the peer 

23 one-on-one, okay? And that's where the manager 

24 would go out and he would do a one on one. We 

25 called it a one-on-one safety meeting. It only 

Page 97 

1 took like two to three minutes. But it was 

2 again a series ofdifferent things that he 

3 looked for and asked for and he made sure. 

4 Q. With an operator? 

5 A. With an operator or anybody. 

6 Q. With an hourly employee? 

7 A. Right. So we had a lot more going on 

8 than just the, the self-audits. 

9 Q. Okay. Was there a requirement that 

10 the supervisors do the -- do these lotto or PPE 

11 sheets, audit sheets? 

12 A. Yes. We, we would change it up 

13 periodically. They would -- I think they had to 

14 do -- I don't remember whether it was one a week 

15 or one biweekly ofthe lockoutltagout. And then 

16 we would do that for like a month. Then we 

17 would do like the PPE. We'd do that for like a 

18 month. Then we'd go back to lockout and tagout. 

19 We just kind of keep it-. 

20 Q. One per week per shift? 

21 A. I'm not sure how many. I don't 

22 remember how many we did. Pretty good bit. 

23 Q. Who, who monitored how much the 

24 managers were doing the audits? 

25 A. Philip would ask for them. 

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Page 98 

1 Q. Okay. But who, who kept track of it?
 

2 A. I did.
 

3 Q. And did you have, did you have some
 

4 managers who were better about them than other
 

5 managers?
 

6 A. No. I want to say it was pretty fair
 

7 across the board.
 

8 Q. SO did you -- did you create some kind
 

9 of report showing what level of, of auditing was
 

10 being done? 

11 A. No, ma'am. I didn't create that 

12 report. Brian Rogers. 

13 Q. Brian or Ryan? 

14 A. Brian Rogers. He developed a database 

15 in Access, a computer program, and we would send 

16 the reports from that. And it accumulated 

17 everything. 

18 Maybe I -- maybe I answered your 

19 question wrong. Yeah, we track that data but 

20 the computer tracked it for us. Everything went 

21 into the scanner and the scanner kind of did it. 

22 Q. When you scanned it in, would it tell 

23 the computers so the computer could determine 

24 what department it was being done? 

25 A. Yes. 

Page 99 

1 Q. Okay.
 

2 A. Who done it. And it kept a track,
 

3 January, February, March, April, May of, of
 

4 each. We had a manager, supervisor, and
 

5 employees.
 

6 Q. SO what was done with the information
 

7 gathered from the lotto audit sheets?
 

8 A. Any ofthe those specific sheets was
 

9 -- ifthey found something it was corrected
 

10 right then and there. 

11 Q. What were they looking for? What 

12 would they find? 

13 A. Just to make that the operator knew 

14 how to lockout and tagout his piece of 

15 equipment. Ifhe didn't he would stop, explain 

16 the whole process, make sure he knew everything 

17 about it, and where the safety switched were, 

18 make sure he had locks. 

19 I think that was one ofthe questions 

20 on it. Did the associate even have a lock? And 

21 just make sure he knew exactly how to, to do 

22 that. And the PP the same way. 

23 Q. Did you ever participate in, in safety 

24 inspections in the facility? 

25 A. Which? Safety inspections as in? 

26 (Pages 98 to 101) 

Page 100 

1 Q. As in, you know, I mean you guys go 

2 around and identifY problems that need to be 

3 corrected, a guard that's not on a machine. You 

4 know, a tripping hazard, you know, or maybe a 

5 slip-fall situation. Did you ever -- did you 

6 ever -­

7 Was that part of your duties at any 

8 point in time in terms of going around and doing 

9 what I would call safety inspection? Maybe you 

10 have another term for it. 

11 A. Okay. In the steering committee we 

12 would go out and access -- not access, assess -­

13 Q. Um-hmm. 

14 A. -- the areas that we felt were the 

15 stronger needs for the lockoutltagout. That's 

16 what we were looking for. 

17 Q. Okay. So assessing lockoutltagout 

18 compliance use. 

19 A. Right. 

20 Q. I mean what were you looking for when 

21 you're -­

22 A. We were looking for the areas with 

23 probably mostly operators. Most ofthe 

24 equipment, where do we need to mount disconnects 

25 to make it easier for the associate to lock out 

Page 101 

1 his equipment? How many did we need on each 

2 machine. 

3 Q. How were you assessing that? 

4 A. We would get with the steering 

5 committee member of that department. And, you 

6 know, I'm not per se I was involved in every 

7 single one of them because whoever was on that 

8 department involved in that department, he would 

9 go up and assess the machine and look, say, 

10 okay, we need six different disconnects on this 

11 one machine. 

12 And then he would bring that data 

13 back, and we would, of course, look at it and 

14 write work orders. That's the kind of safety 

15 stuffwe did. 

16 Q. All right. Do you recall who was on 

17 your steering committee? 

18 A. Oh, gracious. 

19 Q. Like I mean let's go -- you know, 

20 let's say your steering committee six months 

21 before the explosion so, you know, August. 

22 A. Okay. It's going to be hard for me to 

23 remember all the names but, you know. 

24 Q. Give it a try. 

25 A. You may know some. I probably can't. 

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Page 122 Page 124 

1 1 (ph) a little about them before we put them in 

2 2 to make sure they was, number one, a good 

3 3 product to use and environmentally safe. 

4 4 Q. SO was there some -- was there some 

5 5 consideration given to -­

6 6 Now these disconnects you're referring 

7 7 to, disconnects that you guys recommended be 

8 8 installed on machines? 

9 9 A. Yes. On the lockout/tagout process. 

10 10 Q. Now, was there some consideration 

11 11 again to what kind of disconnect needed to be 

12 12 used on a particular piece of equipment based on 

13 13 where that equipment was situated in the plant? 

14 1 4 A. Once one was selected we went where 

15 15 that plant was. 

16 16 Q. Okay. Who was responsible for -­

17 17 okay, let me back up. Was the same kind of 

18 18 disconnect -- you said that one was selected. 

19 19 It was used plant-wide. 

20 2 0 So the same disconnect would be used 

21 2 1 on different pieces of equipment? 

22 22 A. Yes. 

23 23 Q. And who was responsible for selecting 

24 2 4 the disconnect? 

25 25 A. I don't -- I don't say he was 

Page 123 Page 125 

1 AFTERNOON PROCEEDINGS 1 responsible, but I did talk to Tim Straza. He's 

2 BY MS. MOCK: 2 the electrical engineer. 

3 Q. All right. We're back on the record 3 Q. What did you talk to Tim about? 

4 after a lunch break. Eddie, I wanted to talk to 4 A. We had started using one kind of 

5 you a little bit about electrical 5 disconnect. I don't remember the name of it. 

6 classification, okay? 6 But we changed a couple months into it and 

7 Have you had any, any training prior 7 started using a better NEMA rated disconnect. 

8 to the explosion about electrical 8 Q. And how did you know it was better 

9 classification? What kind of electrical 9 rated? What was different about it? 

1 0 equipment can be used in particular areas based lOA. There was an incident. I, I, I don't 

lIon the working conditions? 11 know what was better. But there was a way on 

12 A. No. 12 the -- the reason we changed because there was a 

13 Q. What, what do you know about 13 way that you could put the switch in upside 

14 electrical classification? Or I should say -­ 1 4 down. In other words, you're thinking you're 

I 5 let me rephrase that. What did you know about 1 5 turning it off and you're really turning it on. 

1 6 electrical classification prior to the accident? 1 6 And that was the problem that we had. 

1 7 A. I knew we had to have NEMA cabinets, 1 7 So when I went and talked to Tim 

1 8 what the ratings were. 1 8 Straza we came up with a better box that was 

19 Q. NEMA? 1 9 impossible to tum the switch upside down. It 

2 0 A. NEMA is a -­ 20 was I remember NEMA rated, sealed tight, 

21 Q. N-E-M-A? 21 waterproof! guess box over all. I don't know 

22 A. Yes. They put ratings on it according 2 2 about any kinds of ratings or anything. 

2 3 to whether it's leak resistant I guess. And the 23 Q. SO the improvement was just that it 

24 disconnects I told you about that we mounted we 2 4 was -- it was focused on ease of use and not 

25 actually -- I'd actually talked to Tim Straza 25 messing up whether you were shutting it off or 

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Page 126 Page 128 

1 turning it on? 1 A. I mean ifthere was an extension cord, 

2 A. Right. But with a NEMA-rated box as 2 you know, broke or the wires pulling out, I mean 

3 well. 3 basic knowledge, you know that that's not -­

4 Q. What can you tell me about NEMA 4 it's not acceptable. 

5 rating? What was your knowledge ofNEMA 5 Q. What about the use oftemporary wiring 

6 ratings? 6 instead of permanent wiring, was that something 

7 A. My knowledge ofNEMA rating is the, 7 that you -- that you could identify as a 

8 the seal on the box, whether it could get water 8 problem? 

9 or dust or stuff inside the disconnect. 9 A. Yes. 

10 Q. Anything else? 10 Q. Explain that to me what -- where, 

11 A. No. 11 where -- explain to me what you would see and 

12 Q. And how did you learn about that? 12 identify as a problem with respect to temporary 

13 A. Just by talking to Tim there and him 13 wiring. 

14 telling me about it. 1 4 A. Okay. I want to clarify one thing 

15 Q. Did you read anything on the NEMA 1 5 from what we talked about. I thought about it 

16 ratings? 1 6 awhile ago. When I tell you -- when we started 

17 A. No. 1 7 -- and I'm going there with them doing the 

18 Q. Prior to the explosion did you have 18 walk-around? 

1 9 any understanding of electrical classification 19 Q. Um-hmm, yes. 

2 a for hazardous locations? You know, Class 2, 2 a A. I think I told you that -- or you 

21 Division 1; Class 2 Division 2? 21 might have asked me if Aamir was the plant 

22 A. No. I didn't get into any of that. 2 2 manager at the time. 

23 Q. Okay. So would you -- would you have 23 Q. Yes. 

24 been able to tell by looking at a piece of 24 A. Well, Philip was still there. 

25 equipment whether or not the, the electrical 25 Q. When, when you guys started the 1 p.m. 

Page 127 Page 129 

1 component ofthe equipment was rated for a 1 walkthroughs? 

2 particular location based on -­ 2 A. Right, yes. Philip was still, still 

3 A. Just by the looks? 3 out there. I'm not sure what Aamir's -- I guess 

4 Q. Yes. 4 he was the assistant manager or whatever. But 

5 A. No, I wouldn't. 5 during, during those walks Aamir initiated that 

6 Q. Prior to the explosion did you have 6 while Philip was there. 

7 any familiarity with -- you mentioned, you know, 7 We would see temporary cords running 

8 like dust, you know, like leak resistant on the 8 into like lockers and stuff where people plugged 

9 boxes, on the disconnects. Did you have any 9 their radios -- we carried radios -- their 

1 a familiarity with different levels of protection, 10 chargers or having a receptacle inside their 

11 like whether something was dust -- you know, 11 box. 

12 dust-tight as opposed to dust-proof or 12 Q. Inside their box. Inside their? 

1 3 explosion-proof? 13 A. Inside their lockers. 

14 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. 

15 Q. Had you had any -- had you had any 15 A. Okay. And we identified that as a 

16 on-the-job training about, about electrical 1 6 hazard I think. OSHA has a standard on how far 

1 7 hazards in -- you know, in the workplace being 1 7 an extension cord can run before it needs to be 

18 able to identify electrical hazards? 1 8 a permanent fixture. And I remember once it was 

1 9 A. In some of my work because it was 19 identified, we ordered boxes specifically for 

2 a involved in the electric shop, I knew how to 2 a them to store their radios that would have 

21 identify. 2 1 electrical circuits in it. 

22 Q. Okay. Based on your work in the E&I 22 And they was actually in the electric 

2 3 department? 23 shop being worked on or installed the night of 

24 A. Based on my knowledge of electricity. 2 4 the explosion. I mean wiring and everything up. 

25 Q. Tell me about that. I mean -­ 25 Q. And then on the -- just to -- just to 

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34 (Pages 130 to 133) 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

1 3 

14 

15 

16 

1 7 

18 

1 9 

2 0 

2 1 

22 

23 

2 4 

25 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

1 4 

1 5 

1 6 

17 

18 

1 9 

2 0 

21 

22 

23 

2 4 

2 5 

Page 130 

close the loop on the walk-around or 1 

walkthrough, those -- you recall those starting 2 

when Philip was still the plant manager,just 3 

for clarification, but this was Aamir's idea? 4 

A. Yes. 5 

Q. Okay. And then on the, the temporary 6 

wiring, how did you -- how did you come to know 7 

that, that the -- that using an extension cord 8 

or a certain amount of length should be -- you 9 

know, should be permanently wired instead? 10 

A. Another thing I think I failed to tell 11 

you earlier today, I'd had my 30-hour OSHA as 12 

part of my training. 1 3 

Q. Oh, okay. Do you recall when you had 14 

that? 15 

A. Oh, goodness. I want to say 2005, 16 

maybe 2006. 1 7 

Q. And where did you take that? 1 8 

A. At our facility. 1 9 

Q. And who was the instructor? 2 0 

A. Doug Sikes. 2 1 

Q. Anybody else in the course? 22 

A. I think pretty much all ofthe 23 

managers and the supervisors. 24 

Q. Okay. It wasn't just you and -­ 25 

Page 131 

A. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. 

Q. -- Doug? 

A. After that I also went and took my 

training, 30 hours, too. 

Q. When did you do that? 

A. I did that after the explosion. And I 

took my 30-hour industrial -- construction as 

well after the explosion. 

Q. Didthe 30-hour cover electrical, 

electrical requirements? 

A. The first class that I took? 

Q. Yes. The 30-hour OSHA? 

A. We talked about a lot of different 

things. And I want to say Doug brought it up. 

They can't be but so long. They've got to have 

the male end. I don't remember everything about 

it but-­

Q. Did you ever -- where were -- you 

mentioned the radio's. Where were radio's used? 

A. On their persons. 

Q. Okay. I mean did every employee have 

a radio? 

A. No, ma'am. Not every employee. Most 

all your mechanics, supervisors, some front line 

employees. 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

1 7 

18 

19 

2 0 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

Page 132 

Q. What would determine whether a front 

line employee had it? 

A. I don't know what the determining 

factor would be why somebody -­

Q. Was it a particular area? 

A. Yeah. I think it was based on the 

area they worked. 

Q. What kind of areas? What areas would 

you see the front line employees have? 

A. I know the silo operators. 

Q. Saddle? 

A. Silo operators. 

Q. Silo operators, okay. 

A. They had them. I think specialty 

might have had one. It wasn't like everybody 

else there had one. It was like you might have 

one for the operator that closed. 

Q. Ofthat shift? 

A. Yes. They might share it. I don't 

remember specifically who all had radios. 

Q. What about anybody on the Bosch side, 

can you think of any? Non-supervisory. Just, 

you know, the front line employees I should say. 

A. No, ma'am. I don't think so. 

Q. What about on the -- in the Bemus room 

Page 133 

on the first floor? 

A. I don't think front line employees 

have them. 

Q. What about on the south side on the 

second or third or fourth floors? 

A. Well, I think, again, the supervisor 

and mechanics had them but -­

Q. Can't think of any front line? 

A. Not right off the top of my head. 

Q. Any idea why the silo operators would 

have them or why there would be one there for 

the silo operators? 

A. I don't know the reason. I guess so 

they can talk to each other. I don't know. 

Q. Were employees ever -- was there ever 

any indication that employees were using the, 

the extension cords in their lockers to charge 

cellphones? 

A. Was there an indication that they'd 

done that? 

Q. Yes. 

A. Yes. 

Q. I was thinking maybe but-­

A. Right. 

Q. Anything else that they -- any other 

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Page 134 Page 136 

1 personal items? 1 that to anyone -­

2 A. Personal? 2 A. No. 

3 Q. Yes. I mean anything besides, besides 3 Q. -- or did you flag him down? 

4 the cellphones. 4 A. I stopped -- well, he wasn't really 

5 A. Their radios. 5 driving. He was operating a forklift but he was 

6 Q. Okay. So just the radios. 6 just sitting on it, okay? 

7 A. The Walkie-Talkie radios. 7 Q. Oh. 

8 Q. And those were Imperial-issued? 8 A. I went up to him and told him that he 

9 A. Right. 9 wasn't supposed to be using it while working 

10 Q. And then some people were using -­ 10 hours. He could use it on break. It was more 

11 A. Omarsha (Ph). 11 of an observation thing than anything. 

12 Q. Did you ever see that? 12 Q. And did he put it away? 

13 A. I didn't actually see it. We didn't 13 A. Yes. 

14 go in the lockers. We could see the cords 14 Q. Did you ever see him engage in that, 

15 running to them. We did away with it and-­ 15 in that kind of behavior again? 

16 Q. But that was the suspicion? 16 A. No. 

1 7 A. (Nodding.) 1 7 Q. Do you recall who that was? 

18 Q. That's a yes? 18 A. Gosh, I'm trying to think. 

19 A. That's a yes. 19 Q. Pardon? 

20 Q. Where were the employee locker rooms 20 A. I'm trying to think who it was and I 

21 located? 21 can't think who that was. 

22 A. The ones that is we located and 22 Q. Going back to the electrical thing, 

2 3 ordered the new boxes for were in the 23 have you ever seen any kind ofjumper cables 

2 4 maintenance department in the old maintenance 2 4 used to -- or temporary wiring to keep, keep a 

25 shop. 2 5 machine operating? 

Page 135 Page 137 

1 Q. Was that the one that you said was on 1 A. No. Jumper cables? 

2 the Bosch side on the first floor? 2 Q. Yes. Just some kind oftemporary 

3 A. No, ma'am. 3 wiring that -­

4 Q. Where is this? 4 A. I have seen -- I really don't remember 

5 A. It's over by the admin building. 5 a specific. But like the wires might have 

6 Q. Okay. Were employees allowed to use 6 burned up in a pipe or shorted out or wire went 

7 their cellphones inside the packing house? 7 bad. They might run a jumper until they can run 

8 A. No. They were not supposed to. 8 the permanent back in. I can't think of an 

9 Q. Did you ever see employees using their 9 instance. 

10 cellphones? 10 Q. Can you think ofwhere, where you saw 

11 A. I did witness an employee using a 11 that or-­

12 cellphone on the first floor on a forklift. On 12 A. Uh-uh. 

13 top of the forklift. 13 Q. Did you see that more than once? 

14 Q. What's your understanding of why you 1 4 A. I don't recall when I seen it or where 

15 can't use a cellphone? 15 I seen it. 

1 6 A. You're supposed to be working. And 16 Q. Did you see that -- when do you recall 

17 not supposed to be using them while you're 1 7 seeing that? 

18 working or operating a motor vehicle in the 18 A. I want to say it was when I was doing 

1 9 plant, period. 1 9 an observation of an area. And it was a 

2 0 You can use them on breaks as far as I 20 temporary wire ran. Something went bad. And 

21 know. I don't know if there was a policy. I 21 during the observation we picked up on it and 

22 think it -- I think it was. I'm not a 22 actually had the electricians go fix it, but I 

23 hundred percent sure about cellphone usage. 2 3 can't say exactly. 

24 Q. The guy who was using his cellphone 2 4 I won't say it was in the palletized 

25 while he was driving a forklift, did you report 2 5 area. I'm not 100 percent. 

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Page 146 

1 A. Like when you buy your lOX (ph)
 

2 powdered sugar, it comes in a waxed real shiny
 

3 outside. Well, when you buy your five pound
 

4 it's just a paper.
 

5 Well, water base would not stick to
 

6 the -- to the -­

7 Q. To the wax?
 

8 A. To the same wax down.
 

9 Okay, so you had the ketone base that
 

10 would stick to the wax and you had the water
 

11 base. Usually the water base would give you
 

12 more problems, but it didn't matter where you
 

13 had it at.
 

14 Q. Okay. Do you know why one had more
 

15 trouble than the other?
 

16 A. No.
 

17 Q. You had mentioned near misses and you
 

18 described that. What other kinds of, you know,
 

19 actions or accidents or what else would you guys
 

20 record in safety?
 

21 A. They kept up with all ofthe
 

22 incidents. Of course you had your near hits.
 

23 Q. And the mere hit is what you described
 

24 previously?
 

25 A. Yes. Then you had a NAI.
 

Page 147 

1 Q. What's NAI?
 

2 A. No apparent injury.
 

3 Q. SO that's an incident without apparent
 

4 injury?
 

5 A. Right, right.
 

6 Q. Just give me an example of that.
 

7 A. Someone slips on a set of steps. Then
 

8 you have your first aid.
 

9 Q. Okay. What's the first aid?
 

10 A. First aid? Anything that requires a
 

11 Band-Aid or an aspirin or anything, anything in
 

12 that sort.
 

13 Q. Did you guys have a first aid station
 

14 or, you know, I mean -­

15 A. We had a nurse's station.
 

16 Q. Nurse's station. Where is the nurse's
 

17 station?
 

18 A. When you come to the front gate, when
 

19 you come into the main, it's on the left by the
 

20 store.
 

21 Q. Did the nurse do any stitches?
 

22 A. No.
 

23 Q. Did the -- did Imperial have a doctor
 

24 that would come onsite, too?
 

25 A. Yes, ma'am.
 

38 (Pages 146 to 149) 

Page 148 

1 Q. Okay. And do you recall the doctor's 

2 name? 

3 A. Dr. Carson I think is the same one. 

4 Q. And did you guys have a set nurse over 

5 a period of time prior to the explosion? 

6 A. Yes. 

7 Q. What was the nurse's name? 

8 A. At the time of the explosion was Kathy 

9 -- I know her name. I do know it. 

10 Q. It will come back to you. 

11 A. It will. 

12 Q. Okay. Was Dr. Carson actually located 

13 onsite? 

14 A. No, ma'am. I think he'd come in one 

15 or twice a week, once or twice a week for like 

16 an hour and a half or something. 

17 Q. Did you ever see him for any reason? 

18 A. Yes. Ithink I have. 

19 Q. What, what, what did you see him for? 

20 A. Probably a head cold or something like 

21 that. 

22 Q. SO you could see him for 

23 non-work-related ailments as well? 

24 A. Oh, yes. 

25 Q. Did you ever see him for any 

Page 149 

1 work-related ailments? 

2 A. No, ma'am, I didn't. 

3 Q. Okay. So we've got a near miss, we've 

4 got a no apparent injury, first aid. 

5 A. Then you've got your OSHA recordables. 

6 Q. All right. What's an OSHA recordable? 

7 A. OSHA recordable's anything that 

8 requires stitches, over the -- prescription 

9 drugs, or higher. 

10 Q. Or what? 

11 A. Or higher. Anything of that sort. 

12 Q. And then any other categories? 

13 A. You've got your lost time in accident, 

14 which of course is an OSHA recordable. 

15 Q. Right. Did you have any role in 

16 maintaining the records of any of these -­

17 A. No. 

18 Q. -- categories? 

19 A. No. 

20 Q. Just kind offor, for clean-up 

21 purposes, you know, you mentioned NEMA. Prior 

22 to the explosion did you have any knowledge of 

23 National Fire Protection Association codes? 

24 A. No. I wasn't involved in none of 

25 that. 

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Page 150 

1 Q. Did you have any exposure to them at 

2 all? I mean did you ever recall looking at any 

3 ofthem? 

4 A. I don't recall. 

5 Q. Did you know whether they, they had a 

6 database of them or whether they had them onsite 

7 as a resource? 

8 A. I'm not sure where they kept them at. 

9 Q. Well, let's break it down. Do you 

10 know whether or not they had any?
 

11 A. No.
 

12 Q. When was the first time that you heard
 

13 NFPA?
 

14 A. I want to say it was talked about in
 

15 our 3D-hour course. And I'm sure hit and miss
 

16 here and there, I might have heard a little
 

17 something about it, but I had no involvement in
 

18 it.
 

19 Q. That would have been the 3D-hour
 

20 course that you took in 2005?
 

21 A. Yes.
 

22 Q. Have you ever -- have you ever heard
 

23 of something called a spill control team?
 

24 A. Uh-uh.
 

25 Q. Have you ever heard of a -- the
 

Page 151 

1 acronym, the initials are C-A-R-E, CARE,
 

2 something to do with quality. It would have
 

3 been kind of ***/STPHAEUDers?
 

4 A. CARE? I don't remember anything
 

5 called that.
 

6 Q. Have you ever heard ofthe term -­

7 anybody referred to a problem with a machine as
 

8 a hiccup?
 

9 A. A hiccup?
 

10 Q. Yes.
 

11 A. No.
 

12 Q. Or a burp?
 

13 A. No.
 

14 Q. Okay. Have you heard of any -- have
 

15 you heard-­

16 Prior to the explosion in February '08
 

17 had you heard of any fires in equipment?
 

18 A. I had heard of some. Had hardly any
 

19 involvement in it.
 

20 Q. What had you heard?
 

21 A. I heard that they had a fire in one of
 

22 the mills.
 

23 Q. One of the powder mills?
 

24 A. Right.
 

25 Q. Do you remember approximately when
 

39 (Pages 150 to 153) 

Page 152 

1 that occurred? 

2 A. If I had to guess I would say -­

3 Q. Well, I don't want you to guess. 

4 A. No, I don't know exactly. 

5 Q. I want, you know, an estimate. You 

6 know, sometime in 2007, sometime-­

7 A. Oh, yeah. I'm going to say late. 

8 Q. Late 2007? 

9 A. Late 2007. 

10 Q. Do you remember or do you recall what 

11 the -- you know, what you heard in terms ofwhat 

12 the problem was? 

13 A. No. I don't recall anything about it. 

14 I heard about it. 

15 Q. You heard that there was a fire in a 

16 powder mill. And that was the extent ofwhat 

17 you heard? 

18 A. That was about all I knew about it. 

19 Q. What about any other -- any other, you 

20 know, any other fires? 

21 A. I don't know whether it was a fire or 

22 what but I know they had some trouble. We was 

23 doing a walk-around early one morning with one 

24 ofthe dust collectors. That was actually my 

25 first visit on a dust collector. 

Page 153 

1 Q. Your first visit on a dust collector? 

2 A. Right. To see actually how it -- what 

3 they look like. 

4 Q. When was your first visit? 

5 A. I think it was latter of'07. 

6 Q. And what was your understanding of-­

7 is there a fire with the dust collector? 

8 A. I was with -- we did a 6:00 

9 walk-around that morning. And then they told us 

10 about it. They walked out there, took a mirror 

11 and showed it to him. 

12 Q. What did you guys see? I'm a very 

13 visual person. 

14 A. It was kind of dark when we went out 

15 there the first thing that morning. 

16 Q. Where was the dust collector located? 

17 A. I think they're outside on the roof 

18 side ofthe -­

19 Q. Did you guys actually go out on the 

20 roof and look at it? 

21 A. Yes. 

22 Q. Where were you guys on the roof? 

23 A. We got off at the fifth floor I think. 

24 Q. And what was your understanding of 

25 what happened with the dust? 

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Page 154 

1 A. Nobody knew.
 

2 Q. How did it come to your attention?
 

3 A. They said -- wanted a door up last
 

4 night. And Aamir said, well, let's go look at
 

5 it. He went with them. I kind ofwalked out
 

6 there. I spent a few minutes with them. There
 

7 were some guys working on it. And I went on
 

8 back to work.
 

9 Q. Any further information about the
 

10 problem, what the nature ofthe problem was? 

11 A. I know somebody surely investigated 

12 it. 

13 Q. Oh, I know. I'm just talking about 

14 you -- about what your knowledge was. What you 

15 came to understand what the nature ofthe 

16 problem was. 

17 A. No, I don't recall. 

18 Q. All right. Any other fires on any 

19 other equipment or -­

20 You know, I mean not just packaging 

21 equipment. 

22 A. Nothing I could think about. 

23 Q. I mean ever, ever heard of any 

24 problems with -­

25 A. I know they had, had a forklift one 

Page 156 

1 equipment like -- I mean I've heard things like
 

2 jack stackers, scrubbers.
 

3 A. Yeah. Jack stacker's part ofthe -­

4 well, jack stacker's part of the forklift plan,
 

5 but, you know, jack stackers were -- had battery
 

6 operated jack stackers.
 

7 Q. Ever heard of any, any incident with
 

8 -- fire incidents with jack stackers?
 

9 A. No.
 

10 Q. What about floor scrubbers? 

11 A. Yeah. Floor scrubber, I know they had 

12 -- I think they had two of them. 

13 Q. Two floor scrubbers? 

1 4 A. Yes. One was a large tractor. 

15 Q. Where was that one in use? 

1 6 A. Out on the first floor. And then they 

1 7 had a little smaller one. And whether it was a 

18 drivable or a walk-behind -­

I 9 They might have had -­

20 Q. Where wasn't used? 

2 1 A. That's what they might have used in 

22 areas that they couldn't get the tractor to like 

23 on the second floor or third floor. 

24 Q. Okay. So the only -- in your 28 

25 years, leaving aside obviously the explosion and 

Page 155 Page 157

1 time. 1 fires on February 7 oflast year, you can only 

2 Q. Okay. Can you remember -- tell me 2 think of a fire in a powder mill, a forklift in 

3 about that. 3 the white sugar warehouse, and an issue with the 

4 A. Again I don't know a whole lot about 4 dust collector. 

5 it. I know we had a forklift that caught on 5 Did you hear whether there had been a 

6 fire. Put it out with a fire extinguisher. 6 fire as a result of whatever went on with the 

7 Q. Do you remember around about when that 7 dust collector? 

8 was? 8 A. I don't recall what they come up with 

9 A. No, ma'am, I sure don't. 9 or what happened. 

10 Q. Sometime in 2007 or further back than 10 Q. SO then just, just those two
 

11 that? 11 incidences with fires, one in the powder mill,
 

12 A. I want to say it was further back than 12 and one with the forklift?
 

13 that. 13 A. I'm thinking of one we had in the raw
 

14 Q. Do you remember where the forklift was 14 sugar warehouse.
 

15 used? 15 Q. Tell me about that one.
 

16 A. In the white sugar warehouse I 1 6 A. I remember they had to bring the fire
 

17 believe. 17 department. The fire department came out.
 

18 Q. What other kinds -- what other kinds 18 Q. When?
 

19 of movable equipment did they use in that 19 A. Gracious. I want to say it was in
 

20 facility? I mean you've got forklifts. 2 0 2002, 2003 maybe. I was in the E&I shop at that
 

21 A. Pay loaders. 21 time. And again I don't know a whole lot about
 

22 Q. Ever heard of any problems with pay 22 it. I know it was in the raw sugar warehouse.
 

23 loaders? Fires or -- 2 3 Q. And which fire department responded,
 

24 A. None that I recollect right now. 24 do you know?
 

25 Q. What about any other kind of moving 25 A. Oh, gracious, I don't know.
 

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Page 158 

1 Q. But a fIre department?
 

2 A. Right.
 

3 Q. Did you learn anything about how it
 

4 started?
 

5 A. No, I wouldn't.
 

6 Q. Any other ones that come to mind?
 

7 A. Not right now.
 

8 Q. Was there -- was there any discussion
 

9 with employees about any of these incidences
 

10 after they happened from a safety debriefmg
 

11 standpoint?
 

12 A. I don't -- I don't know.
 

13 Q. Have you -- we talked about it a
 

14 little bit but I want to kind of go back. We
 

15 talked a little bit about places or areas where
 

16 you would see -- you would see sugar dust.
 

17 Do you remember that when we were
 

18 talking about that earlier this morning?
 

19 A. Um-hrnm.
 

20 Q. And I apologize, I can't fme in my
 

21 notes. You mentioned one location.
 

22 Oh, okay. You said that you had seen
 

23 sugar dust in the air in the fourth floor powder
 

24 mill room.
 

25 A. Right.
 

Page 159 

1 Q. Anywhere else that you saw sugar dust
 

2 in the air?
 

3 A. No.
 

4 Q. But just the fourth floor.
 

5 And do you recall when that was that
 

6 you were up there that you saw that?
 

7 A. About six months before the incident.
 

8 Q. And do you recall why you were up
 

9 there?
 

10 A. I want to say someone -- I'll be 

11 speculating ifI do. I think I know. 

12 Q. Well, what do you -­

13 A. I think somebody called Darin. 

14 Q. Called Darin? 

15 A. Called Darin. And I just happened to 

16 be with him. We walked up there and assessed 

17 the area. And I'm not sure what he done from 

18 there. 

19 Q. Okay. Assessed the area how? 

20 A. Looked at it, see what -- said there 

21 was a bunch of dust in the air. We went up 

22 there and sure enough it was. And I don't know 

23 what actions were taken or how they got it 

24 cleaned up or stopped. 

25 I don't know what happened. 

41 (Pages 158 to 161) 

Page 160 

1 Q. Did you and Darin talk about why that 

2 -- why the dust was in the air? 

3 A. No, we didn't. I think he might have 

4 contacted somebody else and talked to him. 

5 Q. But the two ofyou, you guys didn't 

6 sit there and say, you know -­

7 A. Oh, no. 

8 Q. Any other -- any other occasions where 

9 you'd gone up to the fourth floor powder mill 

10 and seen dust in the air? 

11 A. No. 

12 Q. Was there someone in charge of -- are 

13 you familiar with the idea of a root cause 

14 analysis? 

15 A. Yes. 

16 Q. Were you familiar with that, with that 

17 concept before the explosion? 

18 A. I, I took that class but I never used 

19 it. 

20 Q. Okay. Tell me about that class 

21 because I don't think you mentioned that in your 

22 training. 

23 A. It was part of -­ it was part of -­

24 when I fIrst became a facilitator it was just 

25 part of Doug's training as a facilitator. 

Page 161 

1 Q. All right. And what's the basic -­

2 tell me about that training. What's root cause 

3 analysis mean to you? 

4 A. You break it all the way down to, I 

5 think -- I remember we did some scenarios, just 

6 break it all the way down to the leading cause 

7 of anything. 

8 Q. What do you consider when you're 

9 trying to determine what the root cause is? I 

10 mean is there more than one thing or I mean -­

11 A. I don't remember a whole lot. You 

12 know -­

13 Q. I mean just is it strictly behavior 

14 based? Is it environmentally? 

15 A. Oh, no. I think it could be used for 

16 multiple things. Is that what you're asking? 

17 Q. No. I guess my question is, is that 

18 when you're using it you're -- explain to me how 

19 you would use it. 

20 A. We would have used it for our action 

21 plans, getting root cause of an action plan. 

22 The one we done was on the lime system that had 

23 a leak, a wet leak. And we did a root cause. I 

24 mean we kind of knew what the outcome was going 

25 to be when we done it but it was just a work 

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Page 166 Page 168 

1 Q. Prior to the explosion did -- were you 1 A. Mainly because it was a traffic area 

2 ever notified of sugar or sugar dust 2 where forklifts were coming in and out. And it 

3 accumulations? 3 was -- stayed back down into the floor instead 

4 MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 4 of cleaning it up. It would sometimes block the 

5 THE WITNESS: No. 5 path of people trying to walk through some 

6 BY MS. MOCK: 6 areas. 

7 Q. I mean, you know, where you gave the 7 Q. SO was it creating a slip hazard for 

8 example ofyou thought, you know, on this fourth 8 people? 

9 floor sugar dust in the air, you gave the 9 A. Walking and working hazard, possibly. 

10 example. And you thought someone had called 10 At certain times. I mean it wasn't like it was 

11 Darin Pevey about that and that's how you guys 11 everyday. 

12 came to be involved. 12 Q. How would it get there? 

13 A. No. Nobody called me about it. 13 A. It's according with -- sometimes a 

14 Q. To your knowledge had anybody 14 truck would be recalled or a truck would be sent 

15 contacted the safety department? 15 back. 

16 A. Not to my knowledge I don't. 1 6 Q. Are we talking an IS-wheeler? 

17 Q. About -- just let me finish my 1 7 A. Oh, yeah. And they might unload the 

18 question even though I think you know where I'm 1 8 sugar and they'd stage it in these areas. It 

19 going. In terms of about excess sugar 1 9 could have been something as light as one bag 

20 accumulations anywhere in the facility. 20 got damaged, and they rejected the whole load 

21 No? 2 1 but they had to put it somewhere. The bag might 

22 A. Not to my knowledge. 22 sit there and just leak out on the floor. 

23 Q. When you were -- when you were in the 23 And it was to go to reclaim. That's 

24 facility did you ever observe sugar dust 2 4 where it needs to go. It didn't need to be 

25 accumulations that, that you thought needed to 25 sitting in the aisle. I would mostly do that 

Page 167 Page 169 

1 be addressed? 1 because of walking working services. 

2 A. Are you talking about sugar dust or 2 Q. What do you mean by that, walking 

3 granulated sugar? 3 working services? 

4 Q. Well, let's break it down. Let's 4 A. With that in the reclaim area we've 

5 start with granulated sugar. 5 had -- it's kind of hard to, hard to explain. 

6 A. Yes. 6 But this was actually picked up on one of our 

7 Q. Okay. Tell me about that. 7 1:00 walkthroughs. We seen it when the floor 

8 A. There might be a little spillage in 8 was real bumpy because of squished sugar all in 

9 different locations but -­ 9 the floor and -­

10 Q. Okay. Where are we talking about? 10 Q. SO why did it concern you? 1mean 

11 A. My main focus area was going around 11 what were yo.u -- what were you concerned -­

12 the remelt area. 12 A. Not only did forklifts have to travel 

13 Q. Remelt? 13 through there with loads of sugar if they bring 

14 A. Remelt. That's where they actually 14 it to reclaim and it could rock the lift and 

15 re-melted the sugar to go back out most of -­ 15 throw a bag off. People walking through there 

16 Q. Where they reclaim the sugar to run 1 6 it might have been a little damp or something, 

17 through the system again? 17 get slippery. 

18 A. Right, right. Reclaim area. We call 18 Didn't need to be that way. 

1 9 it re-mill. 19 Q. I guess I'm just trying to -- you 

20 Q. SO you saw sugar accumulation in the 20 know, hazard identification, what, you know I 

21 remelt area? 2 1 mean -- to me that doesn't -- you know, I'm 

22 A. Yes. 22 trying to understand. 

23 Q. Was it a concern to you? 23 A. Slips. 

24 A. Yes. 24 Q. Slips, okay. 

25 Q. Why? 25 A. Slips or falls. Either way we did 

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Page 170 Page 172 

1 have the area completely clean. They actually 1 Q. All right. Any other -- see you have 

2 took a -- air hose is what they call them -- and 2 spills on packing lines. 

3 cleaned the whole floor, scraped it up, cleaned 3 A. I've seen spills in the Bemus room. 

4 it up a little bit. 4 Same thing. Bag might miss and dump it out. 

5 Q. All right. Any other area of sugar 5 But I mean even with that I mean, you know, it's 

6 accumulation? 6 supposed to be immediately cleaned up. 

7 A. See spills. I mean whether it be on 7 Q. Pardon? 

8 one of the packing lines. Bosch lines would 8 A. Supposed to be immediately cleaned up 

9 sometimes get hung up and spill sugar on the 9 when they had those spills. 

10 floor. 10 Q. Was it always immediately cleaned up? 

11 Q. What would -- what would cause the 11 A. I can't answer that. I know it's 

12 Bosch line to hang up? 12 supposed to be. 

1 3 A. A paper flaw or something. I'm not 13 Q. Any other sources of sugar 

14 real familiar with the Bosch line. I'm just 1 4 accumulations? 

15 saying a paper flaw or something; the bag didn't 1 5 A. What time period are you talking 

1 6 make right. 16 about? 

17 Q. And the bag doesn't open and it goes 1 7 Q. Oh, let's say 2007 up to the -­

18 on the floor instead of in the bag? 18 A. Okay, yes. 

1 9 A. Right, right. 19 Q. What? 

20 Q. Would that -- would you have that kind 20 A. In the silo manlift. On, on that 

2 1 of -- could you have that kind of -- that kind 21 Tuesday. 

22 of spiller upset in other areas, too? Like, you 22 Q. The Tuesday before the accident? 

23 know, the Bosch line. The Bosch line is the 2 3 A. Accident. 

24 four-to-five-pound granulated? 2 4 Q. Oh, this is -- yeah. You had talked 

25 A. Yes. 25 about this I think with Kurt in your interview 

Page 171 Page 173 

1 Q. Would you also have that kind of 1 maybe? 

2 situation on the consolidated line? 2 A. Yes. I must have. 

3 A. Yes. 3 Q. SO, I'm sorry, taking it Tuesday 

4 Q. Okay. What about -- what about on the 4 before the accident? 

5 soft sugar? 5 A. Yes. For some reason or another we -­

6 A. The soft sugar and, and -­ 6 Aamir had selected the silo manlift for that day 

7 Q. I'm thinking ofthe third floor east 7 and-­

8 packing. 8 Q. For the 1:OO? 

9 A. Right. Soft sugar, but it had a pan, 9 A. Yes, ma'am. And because of it being 

lOa wet pan up under it. So if it spilled it 10 kind of a tight area only two of us went, Aamir 

11 actually fell into a trough. And it just bore a 11 and myself. We went into the -- to the area. I 

12 steady run. And it just ran it back in the 12 don't know ifyou're familiar with it. You just 

1 3 system somewhere so -­ 13 kind of walk in the door and manlift the dry 

14 Q. Okay. What about spills or upsets on 14 air. 

15 the powdered sugar lines? 15 Q. Near the east side packaging elevator? 

1 6 A. Same thing. It had a wet -­ 16 A. In between the elevator and the silos. 

17 Q. It had a wet pan? 1 7 And we rode it up to either the second or third 

18 A. Right. 18 floor. I can't remember which floor we got off 

19 Q. Did all ofthe powdered sugar lines 1 9 of. I don't think I could remember that. And 

2 0 have wet pans underneath them? 20 we had seen small buildups. 

2 1 A. Oh, my gracious. 21 Q. At each landing? 

22 Q. I guess I'm just trying to understand 22 A. At each landing. 

23 why, why they happened to have a wet pan under 23 Q. Okay. 

2 4 the soft sugar but not under granulated. 24 A. And we didn't understand it because 

25 A. Oh, I don't know. 25 scared we might step off and step on the sugar 

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Page 174 Page 176 

1 and it was a real confined area. So we got off 1 floor. 

2 ofthe manlift and-­ 2 A. Have you heard the term, I guess I'll 

3 Q. How far is the manlift up, how many 3 say it, penthouse? 

4 floors? 4 Q. I'm not sure if! have heard ofthe 

5 A. Nine floors. 5 ninth floor as penthouse. 

6 Q. SO all the way like to the top of the 6 A. All right. It's actually almost like 

7 silos? 7 a trailer on top ofthe three silos. 

8 A. Yes. I think -- I'm pretty sure it's 8 Q. Okay. So that's -­

9 nine floors. And we got off either the second 9 A. Like one, two, three, and then you had 

1 0 or the third landing. I don't remember which lOatop, and it had a very end. That's where the 

11 one. And we stopped our inspection right then 11 conveyors were that fed the sugar to whatever 

12 and there. And Aamir went to -­ 12 sileo I'm not sure how the silos were. 

1 3 Q. Why did you stop your inspection? 13 Moved sugar somehow though and -­

1 4 A. Because there was no use going 14 Q. SO potentially go inside that trailer 

1 5 further. Whatever was there had to be cleaned 1 5 where the -- where the belt was? 

16 up. 1 6 A. Yes. You're walking on top ofthe 

1 7 Q. And how much did you see? 17 silos. 

18 A. Want to say it gradually got up to a 18 Q. Okay. 

19 couple inches I guess ofwhatever landing we got 19 A. Okay. And we stopped on the top of 

2 0 off of. And we got off and went to the 2 0 the stairs. Tony called Bruce. Bruce said, you 

2 1 supervisor's office, whether it was the second 21 know, the reason that the sugar's down there is 

22 or third floor. Aamir paged Tony Thomas. I 22 we're cleaning it. We're coming down. We'll be 

2 3 think Tony was in his office. 23 through by the end ofthe day. 

2 4 Q. What floor was Tony's? 24 And I told Bruce to a make sure he 

2 5 A. Second floor. And I don't know 25 called and let us know when he got through. And 

Page 175 Page 177 

1 whether we went to Tony or Tony come to us. 1 we went back down. 

2 Somehow or another we all met up and we went to 2 Q. SO what were they actually out? Were 

3 the ninth floor. And I think -- I'm pretty sure 3 they cleaning out the penthouse? 

4 we went up the stairs. 4 A. Yes. Well, the penthouse all the 

5 Q. Up above the manlift? 5 way -- hard to describe. You had the penthouse. 

6 A. We went on the -­ 6 Okay, that's the top ofthe silo. That's where 

7 Q. I mean where -- what's the area you 7 the-­

8 were on? 8 Q. Is that only accessible by this 

9 A. The stairs are on the west side ofthe 9 staircase? 

10 silos. lOA. Or the manlift. 

11 Q. Oh, okay. So the other end of the 11 Q. SO why didn't you guys take the 

12 silos from the manlift? 12 manlift up to the penthouse? 

13 A. Manlift was on the east side, stairs 13 A. Because sugar dust or sugar -­

14 on the west side. I think we walked up the 1 4 granulated sugar was coming down, and we didn't 

15 steps to the top, Aamir, Tony, and myself. And 15 want to take a chance of getting off ofthe -­

1 6 once we got up there we found out why the sugar 16 Q. SO you got off at the ninth floor? 

1 7 was on the landing. They was actually cleaning 17 A. Ma'am? 

1 8 the ninth floor and it was coming down. They 1 8 Q. You got off at the ninth floor? 

1 9 was cleaning each landing. 19 A. No. We got off at the second or third 

20 Q. They were cleaning. They were 20 floor. 

2 1 cleaning the -­ 21 Q. And you walked all the way up? 

22 Is the ninth floor actually -- is it 22 A. We took the stairs up the, the 

23 -- is it adjacent to the silos? 2 3 backside. 

2 4 A. Have you heard the -­ 24 Q. Oh, that's when you crossed over to 

25 Q. When you say you're on the ninth 25 the west side. 

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Page 178 

1 A. Right. Well, we met Tony on the other 

2 side. I'm not sure exactly how we did it. 

3 Somehow or other we got back on the west side of 

4 the penthouse and that's where we seen Bruce. 

5 He told us they was cleaning that 

6 area. 

7 Q. Was that -- I mean was that normal 

8 cleaning for that area? I mean what -- or was 

9 there something that was triggering? 

10 A. You know, I don't know. I don't know 

11 whether a steel belt -- I think they got steel 

12 belts there. Might call them steel belts. 

13 Might be rubber belts. I don't know. A belt 

14 might have tom or -­

15 I don't know why sugar got on the 

16 floor. But I know that Aamir had them 

17 immediately clean it up right now. 

18 Q. I think you had also mentioned in your 

19 interview with OSHA that the hummer -- that the 

20 hummer rooms were an area where you would see 

21 sugar accumulations? 

22 A. Yes, yes. 

23 Q. Okay. What -- where would you see 

24 those? 

25 A. We did -- the hummer -­

Page 179 

1 You're asking me where they are? 

2 Q. No. I mean go ahead and tell me what, 

3 what, what you saw in the hummer rooms. 

4 A. Again, I don't know what the hummers 

5 do. But I know that we went up to the hummer 

6 floor. I'm not sure when. I'm not sure if it 

7 was on one of the walkarounds and there was some 

8 granulated sugar on that floor and -­

9 Q. What floor are the hummer rooms on? 

10 A. Fifth. I'm not sure about that.
 

11 Q. Are they up above the powder mill
 

12 rooms or are they below the powder mill rooms?
 

13 A. I think it was on the roof. And the
 

14 roof goes up on the old elevator to the fifth
 

15 floor. But it was another room above the roof
 

16 so I'm going to say fifth floor. I'm pretty
 

17 sure it was fifth floor.
 

18 Q. And so what was your understanding of
 

19 -- well, when you went in the hummer room, was
 

20 this in '07?
 

21 Oh, you said it was -- it was when you
 

22 were actually doing the walkthroughs.
 

23 A. I'm pretty sure it was.
 

24 Q. SO later '07?
 

25 A. Right.
 

46 (Pages 178 to 181) 

Page 180 

1 Q. When you went into the hummer room, 

2 could you see sugar in the air? 

3 A. No. I don't remember seeing sugar in 

4 the air because we went in it. But there's -­

5 somebody -- I remember somebody saying something 

6 about maybe a screen ripped or got tom or was 

7 leaking or something, and they had that hummer 

8 shut down. 

9 You know, again whoever's the manager 

10 of that department would make sure it got 

11 cleaned up. They got people to clean the sugar 

12 up. 

13 Q. Have you -- prior to the explosion 

14 when was the last time you were in the -- below 

15 the silos? 

16 A. I remember Kurt had asked me that as 

17 well. And I think I said six, six months. But 

18 I mean the silos, I mean to explain that, was a 

19 place you had to specifically say, I'm going 

20 there. 

21 Q. Why was that? 

22 A. Under the silos. 

23 Q. Who did you have to tell? 

24 A. Oh, you didn't have to tell nobody. I 

25 mean it was just like you didn't -- it wasn't a 

Page 181 

1 normal passageway we walked through ill a day. 

2 Q. I'm sorry. I thought you had to say 

3 that you were specifically going there. 

4 A. No. 

5 MR. TUCKER: It's a figure of speech I 

6 think. 

7 MS. MOCK: Oh, just -­

8 TIIE WITNESS: A figure of speech. I 

9 mean -­

10 MS. MOCK: Yes, I get what you mean. 

11 TIIE WITNESS: -- you almost had to 

12 know I'm going there. 

13 BY MS. MOCK: 

14 Q. Yes, it was a destination. 

15 A. It was a normal -­

16 Q. It wasn't a way to get from Point A to 

17 Point B? 

18 A. There you go. 

19 Q. Okay. So like the penthouse it was a 

20 destination location? 

21 A. Right. 

22 Q. SO why, why, why would you go to the 

23 penthouse? 

24 A. I'm pretty sure the reason I had went 

25 there was because Jimmy Vittrouer had been 

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1 Q. SO did you sometimes go on those 1 cleaned up. Was there any time that you saw a 

2 6 a.m. tours with him? 2 spill that you returned to that area and it 

3 A. I did, but I'm not sure I did it week. 3 wasn't, that it still was there, the same 

4 But if I did, we passed through the second and 4 condition? 

5 third into the process side. 5 I mean were there -- were there what 

6 Q. AlI right. What about the last 6 you consider to be areas where it took longer to 

7 time -- welI, and just for clarification, I 7 clean up or the -- whatever was causing the 

8 think when you were talking about the second 8 spill seemed to be a recurring problem? 

9 floor you mentioned granulated sugar. 9 A. I can't think of anything offthe top 

10 Was there also powdered sugar 10 of my head. Not in that last period oftime. 

11 processed on the second floor, like bulk 11 Q. Well, let's go back a little bit 

12 amounts? 12 further. You know, let's go back to when you 

13 A. Yes. 13 guys started the walkthroughs, kind ofthe -­

14 Q. In your mind what is bulk amounts? Is 14 you know, November '07. 

15 that the 50, 100? 15 A. Right. 

1 6 A. Big, yeah. That's what we looked at. 16 Q. Do you remember any, any areas that-­

1 7 25, 50, 100's are bulk. I 7 where you all said, you know, we saw it clean 

18 (Discussion off the record.) 1 8 and we thought -- and now here we are again and 

1 9 THE WITNESS: I'm pretty sure the 1 9 there's another -­

2 0 robot, what we calI the robot. 2 0 A. Recurrence. 

2 1 Do you know about that? 2 1 Q. -- there's another recurrence. 

22 Q. No. What's the robot? 2 2 A. It kind of -- I kind ofgot to go back 

2 3 A. That was the 50-pound, 100-pound 23 a little bit because I forgot to tell you 

2 4 powdered sugar. 2 4 something else. It was like a two or three-week 

25 Q. Okay. Did it ever have upsets where 2 5 thing -- I think it's 2 weeks out -- that you 

Page 187 Page 189 

1 it missed a -- where it -­ 1 did the initial walk. 

2 A. It was a very new piece of equipment. 2 Q. Oh, I know, okay. 

3 I want to say probably less than six or eight 3 A. And then two weeks later. 

4 months old. And it was nice. 4 Q. Reinspect? 

5 I've never witnessed it upset and 5 A. You re-inspected that same thing. And 

6 blowing sugar out. 6 you look from the first sheets to make sure it 

7 Q. SO can you think of the last time that 7 didn't, didn't match up. And I want to say 

8 --before the accident that you visited the 8 Aamir pretty much is the one that went on the 

9 second floor on the south side? 9 initial walkthrough, but periodically he would 

10 A. I can't -- I can't pinpoint a time 1 0 go on the second-area walk. 

11 frame. 11 Q. SO did you have any problem areas? 

12 Q. Do you recalI being there the week 12 A. I don't remember ifwe had any repeat. 

13 before the explosion? 13 Q. SO as you sit here you don't remember 

14 A. I remember seeing in the plant. I 1 4 any areas that you went where you guys saw sugar 

15 remember seeing it. But I don't recall exactly 1 5 accumulation, and you came back 2 weeks later 

1 6 how I've seen everything because I mean I was 1 6 and you saw a similar condition? 

17 just-­ 17 A. Right. 

I 8 I remember -- I'm not just saying it. 18 Q. That's -- you agree with that? 

1 9 I remember how clean everything was. And so I 1 9 A. I know exactly what you're asking and 

20 know I walked through different areas of the 20 I'm thinking my brains out right now. 

21 plant and the mill. I just don't remember 21 I know that the first floor, that I 

22 exactly what dates. 22 explained a whole lot earlier, was one ofthe 

23 Q. Well, you have -- you know, you have 2 3 areas that, that we continuously had that 

24 emphasized that things were very clean and that, 2 4 problem out of, but it -­

25 you know, whenever you saw a spill it got 25 Q. What was your understanding? 

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1 A. The remelt area. 1 Q. SO it was always cleaned up? 

2 Q. Okay, the remelt area. 2 A. I'm not going to say it was always 

3 A. All right. I mean you had to 3 cleaned up. I have never seen so much that they 

4 understand that was just what it was, the remelt 4 couldn't. 

5 area. That's where they dumped the sugar out. 5 Q. Whether it actually was? 

6 That's where they scooped it up and put it in 6 A. Whether they actually did it. I don't 

7 the bins and stuff. 7 think it was so much of a mountain they 

8 Q. SO anything they were toting down from 8 couldn't. 

9 other areas and had -- anything that had spilled 9 Q. What would -- well, strike that. 

1 0 from a machine -­ 10 MS. MOCK: Let's take a short break. 

II A. Right. 11 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 

12 Q. -- on another floor they're going to 12 BY MS. MOCK: 

13 bring it down to the remelt area? 13 Q. All right. Eddie, have you ever 

1 4 A. Right. And, and when they do -- I 1 4 visited -- prior to the explosion did you ever 

15 mean you can't hide it. When they did, the 15 visit any, any other sugar facilities, sugar 

1 6 sugar might be leaking out of a bag and it might 1 6 refining facilities? 

1 7 have spilled all the way down that, that walking 17 A. Yes. 

18 path. And the boilers run through it and then 18 Q. Where did you visit? 

19 packs it into the floor. That shouldn't happen. 1 9 A. Gramercy. 

20 So we did for -- you know, that was a 20 Q. And when was that visit? Were you in 

2 1 tough area to keep clean. But once we initially 2 1 safety at that point? 

2 2 put a lot of money and effort behind it to get 22 A. Yes, yes. 

2 3 it cleaned and done right -­ 23 Q. What, what part ofthe Gramercy 

24 Q. Any problem areas on the second floor, 24 facility did you go to? 

25 south side? 25 A. Which part? 

Page 191 Page 193 

1 A. I can't think of anything off the top 1 Q. Yes. 

2 of my head right now. 2 A. It was mainly the office. We had 

3 Q. What about any problem areas on the 3 went. Brian Roberts actually went with me. He 

4 third floor, south side? 4 was the guy I told you about at the other place. 

5 A. I don't remember anything that really 5 We were setting up the JSA program. We kind of 

6 created a problem that's really sticking out 6 built it in Savannah, tweaked it, got it working 

7 right now. 7 right. And we took it to Gramercy. 

8 Q. All right. What about the -- what 8 And a guy by the name of Joel -­

9 about the Bemus room, first floor? 9 Q. Veringue? 

1 0 A. It was -- I have to say that -- you lOA. Veringue. Spell that one. 

11 know, was a machine that did spill some bags 11 Q. V-E-R-I-N-G-U-E? 

12 periodically. I thought the guys did a -- I'm 12 MR. TUCKER: I think that's right. 

13 not saying they walked through every time and 13 (Discussion off the record.) 

14 everything was spotless. But they did do a 14 THE WITNESS: But we helped him set up 

15 pretty good job with keeping, keeping the area 15 his computer, set up a database program. Kind 

16 clean. 1 6 of showed him what we knew. Shared our 

1 7 But it did -- when it missed some bags 1 7 documentation with him where he could start 

1 8 it would put a hundred pounds of sugar on the 1 8 building JSA's because they were challenged as 

19 floor. I mean it wasn't a little. 19 we were by Mr. Sheptor to perform JSA's. 

20 Q. The Bemus, were those -- did you ever 2 0 So we got it going, took it to him and 

2 1 -- did you ever see where they weren't able to 2 1 trained him on the system. 

22 clean it up at -- you know, it was big enough 22 BY MS. MOCK: 

23 spill where they weren't able to clean it up on 23 Q. Okay. Did you go into the refinery? 

2 4 the -- at the end of the shift? 24 A. We did go in at one point to -- I want 

25 A. Oh, no. 25 to say they put in a, a new Bosch machine. And 

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Page 194 

they had had -- I want to somebody had reported 

the near hit or NAI or something. And Joel was 

going to walk up and look at it. And I went up 

with him to the new Bosch room I guess to look 

at the area that they had a near hit or NAI, 

whatever it was. 

We had maybe spent 30 minutes there 

and I think went back out. 

Q. Did you visit any other -- any other 

areas of their facility? 

A. We went to -­

Q. Production or packaging areas. 

A. I don't think. I think we walked down 

to the white -- to their warehouse. I'm not 

sure what it's called. White sugar warehouse is 

what we call it. 

We came back down and went through the 

warehouse because I had knew somebody that went 

from Savannah to there and I just wanted to 

speak to them. And I think that's where we met 

up with him or something. 

Q. And who was that? Was that a friend 

of yours? 

A. Yes. Charlie Rogers. I don't think 

he was there. Never got to see him. 

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Page 196 

got killed and -­

Q. The guy had gone away? 

A. Yeah. And they didn't have anybody to 

keep the printers going. I kind ofwent and 

helped them get some ofthat part going. 

Q. How long were you there? 

A. Just a couple ofdays. 

Q. Do you remember what year that was? 

A. I think it would be 2002, 2003. 

Q. And when you were there working on 

their printers, did you see any sugar or sugar 

dust accumulations? 

A. Again I didn't -- I don't recall any 

but we was more or less focused in their E&I 

shop. And I pretty much stayed right there 

working with some guys training them. I don't 

think we did tours ofthe plant. 

Q. Did you actually go out and work on 

any ofthe -­

A. Everything in the shop. Everything in 

the shop. 

I mean they had one broke and it was 

there. I had a couple ofthem sent back to 

Savannah. They needed some major repairs ofit. 

Didn't have time between that to fix there. 

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Page 195 

Q. When you were in the -- in the new 

Bosch room did you see any sugar accumulation, 

sugar or sugar dust? 

A. I think about it. And I figured that 

would be the question but I don't remember 

anything. Not nothing that stood out to me. 

Q. Okay. Have you been -­

Did you ever go to the Sugarland 

facility ofImperial, Imperial Sugarland 

facility? 

A. I've been to the city office. 

Q. Right. No, no, no. The actual -­

A. No, ma'am. 

Q. -- refinery. 

A. I wasn't at that. No, ma'am. 

Q. Any other sugar-refining facilities 

besides the Gramercy? 

A. No. 

Q. And just -- and just the one Gramercy 

visit? 

A. I've been there on occasions earlier 

when I was working on the -- on the printers. I 

went there to work with the person they had 

trained doing that work. I don't remember all 

the stuff behind it but something happened. He 

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Page 197 

Q. When you were going back to the 

Savannah facility, you know, when we were 

talking about sugar accumulations, what -- we 

talked about sugar accumulations. I don't know 

that we talked about sugar dust accumulations. 

Were there any areas that you saw 

sugar dust accumulation that, that you said, no, 

I need to error this to somebody? 

A. One that I spoke of earlier was the 

fourth floor. 

Q. Oh, the powder mill when you were with 

Darin? 

A. Powder mill. Right. 

Q. But any other areas? 

A. No. Nothing else sticks out. 

Q. Do you recall ever anywhere in the 

facility -- we'll start broadly and then we'll 

go and be more specific based on what your 

answer is. Where you saw sugar dust 

accumulations where you -- where discolored, the 

machine? For example -- I'll give you an 

example. 

You know what scrolls are, right? 

A. Um-hmm. 

Q. Okay. And scrolls have covers on 

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Page 198 Page 200 

1 them? 1 steel belt was leaking. 

2 A. Right. 2 Q. And this was the steel belt, where? 

3 Q. And what color are the scrolls? Kind 3 A. On the fourth floor. 

4 of a grayish metal color? 4 Q. What was it feeding? Where is it 

5 A. Yes, but I think some were white, too. 5 carrying the sugar? 

6 I'm not sure. If I had to say I would say 6 A. I don't have a clue. 

7 galvanized. 7 Q. Okay. 

8 Q. Okay, galvanized? 8 A. I know it took sugar from one area to 

9 A. Right. 9 the next. 

10 Q. Do you ever recall seeing equipment 10 Q. Granulated? 

11 that had a -- you know, had a fme layer of 11 A. Yes, um-hmrn. 

12 sugar or sugar dust on it anywhere in the 12 Q. And how much accumulation was 

1 3 facility? 13 underneath the belt? 

14 A. I'm, I'm completely drawing a blank. 14 A. It probably dropped -- I would say by 

15 I had seen in the past on those scrolls they had 1 5 the time that Donald got up there and I finally 

16 motors. And I've seen some sugar buildup on 1 6 got it shut down maybe three or four inches. 

17 some of the motors. And the area we're talking 1 7 Q. And you said you called Snipes. And 

18 about right adjacent to the powder mill room, 18 I'm sorry, what else did you say? 

1 9 we're still on the fourth floor when you're 1 9 A. I either called Donald Snipes or Russ 

20 talking about the scrolls and all. 20 Beasley. Might have been -- I remember calling 

21 Q. Fourth floor but just outside the 2 1 somebody in maintenance. It would have been 

22 powder room? 22 over that. Could have been Harman Jones. 

23 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. And did you go back up there to 

24 Q. SO are these motor that are generating 2 4 see whether the sugar had been cleaned up? 

2 5 power for the scrolls that are sending sugar 25 A. Yes. When I went back up, probably a 

Page 199 Page 201 

1 into the powder mill room? 1 few hours later, Donald had -- whoever came up 

2 A. I would say so, yes. 2 there shut it down. I don't know what -­

3 Q. And did you -- so you saw sugar dust 3 They shut it down. They called the 

4 on the motor. Did you see sugar dust on the 4 mechanics. I probably went up there maybe two 

5 scrolls? 5 or three hours later and they was making repairs 

6 MR. TUCKER: Object to form. 6 to the belt. And I don't remember who was 

7 TIffi WITNESS: I can't remember seeing 7 cleaning the sugar up. Somebody was scraping 

8 it on the scrolls. 8 the sugar up. 

9 BY MS. MOCK: 9 Q. At the same time that they were 

10 Q. At that point did you see sugar, any 1 0 repairing the belt? 

11 sugar on the floor? 11 A. Right. Making repairs, right. 

1 2 A. I remember one time that we had went 12 Q. Did you -- the motor, the accumulation 

1 3 up there and there was a steel belt. 13 on the motors on the fourth floor, what was your 

1 4 Q. Are we talking about your visit that 14 understanding of where the sugar dust was coming 

15 you and Darin went when you got called up to the 15 from that had -- was on the motors? 

1 6 powder mill or was this a different visit? 16 A. I don't know. Might have drifted out 

1 7 A. I'm sure this is probably a different 1 7 of that room or -­

18 visit. 18 Q. Actually out of the powder mill room? 

19 Q. Okay. 1 9 A. Right. Right. I don't know where it 

2 0 A. I remember the steel belt one time had 20 came from. 

2 1 a tear in it and it was leaking sugar. It made 21 Q. Who was the supervisor of the fourth 

22 a trail up under the steel belt, the whole 22 floor? Who was responsible for the fourth 

2 3 length of it. I called -- I want to say I 23 floor? 

24 called Donald Snipes, or Russ Beasley (ph), 2 4 A. Manager? 

2 5 somebody in the mechanics and told them the 25 Q. Yes. 

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Page 214 

1 that, doing away with any kind of blowing down.
 

2 Q. Well, more generally cleaning.
 

3 A. Who would be more involved in
 

4 cleaning?
 

5 Q. Yes. Who would be more -- who would
 

6 be knowledgeable about cleaning and cleaning
 

7 practices?
 

8 A. Are we still on the Monday morning
 

9 plan?
 

10 Q. Yes.
 

11 A. Okay. That would be the manager and
 

12 the supervisors.
 

13 Q. Of each area?
 

14 A. Of each department, right.
 

15 Q. In the -- in the six months before the
 

16 accident did you observe anyone using air to, to
 

17 clean an area?
 

18 A. Not to my recollection, no.
 

19 Q. Did you see -- did you see fans used
 

20 in areas to -- you know, to keep people cool?
 

21 A. Pedestal fans.
 

22 Q. Yes, yes. That would be one example.
 

23 A. Yes.
 

24 Q. Where did you see that?
 

25 A. They have one on each Bosch line.
 

Page 215 

1 They -- I think they had one on the Fawema.
 

2 Q. Remind we where the Fawema -- that's
 

3 the new-­

4 A. Beat west of the Bosch machines.
 

5 Q. Second floor?
 

6 A. Still on the second floor, yeah.
 

7 Q. Okay. What is the Fawema? What is
 

8 that package?
 

9 A. Four pound. Four and five pounds.
 

10 Q. Four or five granulated?
 

11 A. No, I'm -- four and 10 pound.
 

12 Q. Granulated?
 

13 A. Right. Yeah, granulated.
 

14 Q. Anyon the south side that you recall?
 

15 A. Yes.
 

16 Q. Where on the south side?
 

17 A. They had one on the -- they had two on
 

18 the two-pound.
 

19 Q. What floor are we talking?
 

20 A. Second floor still. I don't remember
 

21 one on the consolidated. Consolidated was
 

22 adjacent to the -- that was the five-pound
 

23 packer.
 

24 Q. What about in the Bemus room, any fans
 

25 there?
 

55 (Pages 214 to 217) 

Page 216 

1 A. I can't picture one sitting there 

2 right now, but I am more than positive, yes, 

3 they had one. 

4 Q. What would you say -- in the summer 

5 months what would you say was the hottest place? 

6 A. On the centrifugal floor. 

7 Q. Centrifugal floor. Where is that? 

8 A. That's in the mill process side. 

9 Q. SO where they were refining? 

10 A. Yes, yes. 

11 Q. In the packing house was there one 

12 area that was like, oh, geeze, I don't want to 

13 go there? 

14 I mean did it get hotter as it went up 

15 just because heat rises? 

16 A. It wasn't as comfortable as maybe this 

17 room right now, but I mean it was 

18 air-conditioned on the second, third Bosch side. 

19 The fourth floor but nobody really worked on the 

20 fourth floor. I don't think it was -- it didn't 

21 have air. 

22 Q. Did you see any fans on the fourth 

23 floor? 

24 A. No. I don't recall any on there. 

25 Q. And what about in the powder mill? I 

Page 217 

1 mean that would be part of the fourth floor. 

2 A. Right. I don't remember seeing one 

3 there. 

4 Q. Hummer rooms? 

5 A. Hummer room? 

6 Q. (Nodding). 

7 A. I don't recall seeing one there. 

8 Q. Did we touch on the third floor 

9 packing? Something? Do you recall seeing any 

10 fancy on the third floor? 

11 A. Let me think. There was one. I can't 

12 remember whether it was on the triple stack or 

13 to the left ofthe triple stack. 

14 You had the triple stack. Then you 

15 had the two-pound soft. I remember seeing a fan 

16 sitting in that area but I'm not sure who it was 

17 used for. 

18 Q. Whether it was for triple stack or the 

19 two-pound soft? 

20 A. Yes. 

21 Q. Did they ever have fans that were 

22 actually like mounted on the ceiling as opposed 

23 to pedestal fans? 

24 A. I want to say I remember seeing one 

25 somewhere but I don't know where at. I don't 

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remember them being in the packing house but I 

know they might have moved them a little bit. 

Q. I thought I saw a photo of that 

someplace. I may be wrong though. 

A. What I'm thinking was in the store 

rooms because we made them take it down and put 

an actual -­

We didn't like the way he had it 

mounted. We made them take it down and put an 

actual fan bracket. So I'm off on that one. 

Q. Now were these -- did they -- on any 

ofthese fans that they run, were they plugged 

directly into, into an electrical, electrical -­

A. Receptacle. 

Q. -- receptacle, or did any ofthem use 

extension cords so they could move them around? 

A. Right. I don't -- I can't answer 

that. I don't remember. 

Q. Okay. I think you had mentioned -­

did you ever have responsibility for, for 

cleaning the five-pound consolidated palletizers 

area? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Was that way back when? 

A. No, no. 

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Page 220 

quality. It's something they just -­

Q. SO you weren't actually doing the 

cleaning. 

A. Right. 

Q. You were inspecting to verifY that the 

cleaning was being done? 

A. Right. 

Q. All right. The, the Domino explosion. 

Prior to the accident at Fort Wentworth, were 

you aware that Domino had had an explosion at 

their facility in Baltimore? 

A. Yes. 

Q. How did you learn about that? 

A. I think Doug told me. 

Q. Via email, in person? 

A. No. I think he told me in person. 

Q. What did he tell you? 

A. He told me they had an explosion at 

the Domino plant. He didn't know a whole lot of 

what was going on about it and all that. We 

talked about it a minute or two. And I think he 

went to research it, see what he could find out 

about it. 

Q. Did he give you any update about what 

he had learned? 

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Q. When, when -­

A. I think I was on -- yeah. I was in 

the safety department at that time. It was -­

don't know what year. 

Q. Where was that located? 

A. That was in the white sugar warehouse. 

Q. Okay. 

A. We had the white sugar warehouse, the 

palletizer area. Then it started with packing 

area. It was in the palletizer area. 

Q. And that's where they actually put -­

you put all the bales onto wooden pallets. Is 

that -­

Am I understanding that process? 

A. Yes. 

Q. And what did the cleaning consist of 

there that you had to do? 

A. Well, all I had to do is go do a 

checkoff. The operator was actually responsible 

for the actual cleaning of that machine. I 

would just go an inspect it. 

Q. How often would you inspect it? 

A. Once a month. 

Q. SO is this using the bubble sheet -­

A. No. No, ma'am. This came from 

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A. Yes. He had -- I don't remember 

whether it was the same day or the next day. I 

don't remember exactly when it was but we had -­

I think they actually did a call-around on it. 

Actually let me sit in on it. 

Sat in on the first, first initial 

call I think, but after that I'm not sure what 

direction it went in. 

Q. Who was the call-around with? Was 

this a safety call around? Or was this people 

outside ofsafety? 

A. I'm not sure who all was -- who all 

was on it. I know it was people outside of our 

plant on it. I'm not sure who all was on it. 

Q. SO you participated in that 

call-around? 

A. In the first call-around, yeah. 

Q. You say the first call-around. Do you 

know that there was a second? 

A. No, I don't. 

Q. SO, so what did you learn about the 

Domino explosion? 

A. I remember they -- I knew that not 

much had come out yet. I don't remember if it 

was the same day or the next day that we 

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Page 266 

1 that. And then schedule a time, whether it be
 

2 an hour, hour and a half.
 

3 I don't remember any that they just
 

4 kept, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
 

5 Really wasn't talking about that much time.
 

6 (Jaudon Deposition Exhibit Number 9 was
 

7 marked for identification and retained by
 

8 counsel.)
 

9 BY MS. MOCK:
 

10 Q. I'm going show you Exhibit 9. And I
 

11 don't know if this document really has a title
 

12 per se. But it's a -- well actually why don't
 

13 you take a look at it and tell me ifyou can
 

14 identify that document for me.
 

15 A. Just in general what the document is?
 

16 Q. Yes.
 

17 A. This is an incident report.
 

18 Q. Okay. And so the incident report,
 

19 this is actually for an employee who, who you
 

20 were saying was injured as a result of something
 

21 in the workplace?
 

22 A. Right.
 

23 Q. Do you recognize the handwriting?
 

24 This one we're looking at, Jerry Butler is the
 

25 foreman?
 

Page 267 

1 A. Yes, right here.
 

2 Q. And you said you've never -- you never
 

3 filled out one of these incident reports?
 

4 A. I did the near hits.
 

5 Q. Okay. And would you tell -- is there
 

6 a way to tell on jhis first page whether
 

7 something is a near hit as opposed to -­

8 Oh, I see, the box.
 

9 A. Check marks.
 

10 Q. Okay. So since this one was the first
 

11 day you wouldn't have had any role in this one?
 

12 A. Well, I just -- putting this out it
 

13 looks like it started out as a first day. Do
 

14 you see where it's scratched through?
 

15 Q. Yes.
 

16 A. And then it looks like it may have
 

17 moved.
 

18 Q. To -­ 19 A. An OSHA court order, a later date.
 

20 Q. Okay, got it.
 

21 A. Looks like they scratched out that and
 

22 checked 2.
 

23 Q. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
 

24 Can you flip to the page that's the first page
 

25 after the -- there's a couple photos. It's
 

68 (Pages 266 to 269) 

Page 268 

1 Bates Number 9944 down on the lower right. 

2 A. Okay. 

3 Q. Do you recognize that handwriting? 

4 A. Pretty sure I do. 

5 Q. Whose handwriting is that? 

6 A. Looks like Darin Pevey's. 

7 Q. Okay, that's helpful. And then if you 

8 go to the next page? 

9 A. Um-hrnm. 

10 Q. Is that Darin's or no? Do you 

11 recognize that signature next to the 628? 

12 A. I am strictly guessing here. But it 

13 looks to me like an N with an E kind of making 

14 it part of the A. I think it's Norman Eubanks 

15 saying he agreed with what Darin wrote here. 

16 Q. Oh, is that how the system worked? 

17 A. Yeah. 

18 Q. Meaning that Darin would do this kind 

19 of write-up and then it would be run by you? 

20 A. Yes. Oh, yes, Darin's system. 

21 Norman's sitting right there with him. 

22 Q. Okay. And so they, they get his 

23 concurrence on it. 

24 And then do you know who -- go to the 

25 third page then where you see it's typed up. Do 

Page 269 

1 you see that? 

2 A. Um-hmm. 

3 Q. Do you know who would type this in? 

4 Create this type of equipment sheet? 

5 A. Again, I'm speculating. If Darin did 

6 the investigation I'm sure he typed it up, but 

7 it don't say it on there. 

8 Q. That's fair. We're done with that 

9 one. Let's take a look at quality on this one. 

10 Can you take a look at Exhibit 10 and 

11 tell me if you recognize, recognize that one? 

12 A. Yes. 

13 Q. Does this form -­

14 A. I told you about this one a little bit 

15 earlier. A guy got his hand caught in the 

16 chain. 

17 Q. Is this where he lost the fingertip? 

18 A. Yes. 

19 Q. Yes, he got caught in the chain. 

20 So is this another -- just before we 

21 get into the nitty gritty ofthis, is this 

22 another version of an incident report or is it 

23 just a bad copy? Because it doesn't seem to 

24 have -­ 25 A. Can I look back at this one? 

(866) 448.DEPO 

www.CapitaIReportingCompany.com ©2009 
Capital Reporting Company 

E. Jaudon 

69 (Pages 270 to 273) 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

1 0 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

1 6 

1 7 

18 

1 9 

2 0 

21 

2 2 

23 

2 4 

2 5 

Page 270 

Q. Um-hmm. Doesn't seem have the 

Imperial Sugar logo up above. 

A. I think it's just a -- see, what I 

think, it looks like it almost had something 

right here. It might just not have Imperial 

Sugar logo. 

I don't know that. Well, maybe so. 

They typed this in. It's still an incident 

- report. 

Q. It's an incident report, okay. 

A. Yes, ma'am. 

Q. All right. Do you -- and this was -­

what's GP3, the department? 

A. Packing, Packing House 3, third floor. 

Q. What's the G stand for? 

A. General packaging 3. 

Q. And then it's on the, what, third 

floor, one-pound powder line? Am I reading that 

correctly? 

A. Yes. I think that's what it was. 

Q. Yes, and you said you were familiar 

with this incident. How much of his -- how much 

of his fingers did he lose? 

A. I think it might have been up to the 

first knuckles. 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

1 6 

1 7 

18 

1 9 

2 0 

21 

22 

23 

24 

2 5 

Page 272 

A. Yes. 

Q. To your knowledge do you recall 

whether he was disciplined in any way? 

A. I'm not in on any ofthat. I don't 

recall whether he was or not. 

Q. Okay. Now, does the -- are you 

familiar with safety inspection score cards? 

A. Is that something -­

Q. Doesn't ring a bell? 

A. No. 

Q. Don't want to bog us down. All right. 

Two last exhibits, two more exhibits. 

(Jaudon Deposition Exhibit Number 11 was 

marked for identification and retained by 

counsel.) 

BY MS. MOCK: 

Q. I'm going to show you what's been 

marked as Exhibit 11, Eddie. Says, Safety 

Inspection Open Mechanical. Is that the title 

ofthe one you're looking at up at the top? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Can you take a look at that Exhibit 

and let me know if you recognize it? 

A. Right off! don't. 

Q. Does that document look at all 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

1 6 

1 7 

1 8 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

Page 271 

Q. Directing your attention to the Bates 

number down on the right, that's probably the 

easiest way, 9969? 

A. Okay. 

Q. Is this Darin's handwriting? 

A. Yes, ma'am. 

Q. And you see the star. It says, Guard 

was off of machine and had been off for 

approximately three to four weeks? Do you see 

that? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Was there any -- after this incident 

was there any discussion ofwhy the guard had 

been off for so long? 

A. I'm sure it was but again Darin did 

this one. And I think what this is down here is 

just footnotes of what's not up here. And that 

might have been a statement that the associate 

that was injured actually made. 

Q. Well, I can ask Darin about that. 

A. Yes. 

Q. To your knowledge do you recall 

whether the employee -- and who was -­

The employee who was involved was, 

what, Mr. Hopkins? 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

1 5 

1 6 

1 7 

18 

1 9 

20 

21 

2 2 

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2 4 

25 

Page 273 

familiar to you? 

A. Looks familiar. I think that might 

have been -- this could have been attached it. 

Q. Well that's okay. If it doesn't ring 

any bells for you then I don't want to belabor 

it for you. That's okay. 

(Jaudon Deposition Exhibit Number 9 was 

marked for identification and retained by 

counsel.) 

BY MS. MOCK: 

Q. All right. Eddie, I'm going to show 

you Exhibit 12. If you could take a look at 

that and let me know whether you recognize that 

document? 

A. (Reading.) 

Q. Do you recognize that document? 

A. Somewhat. Yes, ma'am. 

Q. Somewhat? 

A. Somewhat. 

Q. Actually we're looking at a Safety 

Continuous Improvement Plan dated 8/24/2007. Is 

that what you've got? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Do you recognize the handwriting on 

the first page? 

(866) 448.DEPO 

www.CapitaIReportingCompany.com ©2009 
Secretary ofLabor v. Imperial Sugar Company and Imperial-Savannah, L. P.
 

OSHRC Docket No. 08-1104
 

Respondents' Opposition to Complainant's Motion for Leave to Take the Depositions
 

of Witnesses Who Were Interviewed under Oath by OSHA During the Investigation
 

Administrative Law Judge Covette Rooney
 

Exhibit C
 

OSHA Interview Statement of Jerome Stokes
 

Filed Electronically on August 25,2009
 
Occupational Safety and Health Administration 

Statement 

I, Jerome Stokes, reside at 

I am employed by Imperial Sugar Company located at Oxnard St in the 

City & State ofPort Wentworth, GA. The office telephone number is 912-964-1361. I have 30 Years 

working in company. My job classification is Bulk Sugar Supervisor. I have been a Bulk Sugar 

Supervisor for 12-14 years. 

This statement is being taken as part ofan official federal investigation by the United States Department 

ofLabor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration. I understand that this statement may be used in 

courtfhearings, or made available to other agencies ifit will assist them in the performance oftheir 

statutory function. Upon closing ofthis case, this statement may be subject to disclosure only in 

accordance with applicable statues and agency policy. 

This interview is being conducted in the presence ofGordon Bower, Savannah OSHA, Brenda Sherrod, Savannah 

OSHA and Jeremy Tucker, Alston and Bird, LLP and I have no objections to hislher presence. 

I have only been interview by Alston and Bird Attorneys. 

I was not here the night ofthe incident. 

They work 3 shifts. I have operators under me but no supervisors. David Smart, Hilton Smith, and Alvin 

Carter are swing operators. Dwayne Frazier, David Mayes, and Greg Wilson are swing inspectorS. Sweco 

attendant Elliot Gibbs (day shift). Contractors are used for cleaning (Stokes). We clean on Monday for 4 

hours and Stokes help us. 

Cleaning on Monday is sugar spills. Ifwe have a heavy load on Monday we skip that Monday until the 

next Monday or maybe thru the week. Stokes only work day shift. Lumps get and the system and we 

have to open the scrolls for unclogging and sugar spills out. If it is a small spill we clean it then but large 

spills wait until we catch up. May be a few days later. 1sa floor is cleaned by ISC BS employees. 

The inspectors check for pest and foreign materials and clean the magnets. Inspectors work inside and 

outside. Operators get info from inspector, set scale and ensure the sugar is flowing properly. 

Gordon showed 1st Floor, Photo DSC001S thru DSC0236. Gordon showed Photo 6 and ask where the 

sugar came from. Stokes said he did not know where the sugar came from. Photo 6 & 8 motor had 

buildup according to Stokes. Photo 9 top ofscroll-. Stokes says it is granulated sugar on top. Photo 10 

& 11 pile ofgranulated sugar - Stokes said that this could have happened from the incident. This would 

be like the type ofsugar cleaned on Monday. Photo 13 top ofscroll bas sugar on it per Stokes. A small 

pile ofsugar may be from mechanic loosening top ofscroll. Photo 29 thru 32 manlift. All my operators 

and inspectors ride the manlift. There is a class and certification given before riding the manlift. The 

company managers/supervisors would take disciplirnuy action for riding and they were not certified. The 

contractors have to take the stairs, we do not allow them to use the manlift. The manlift at the bulk 

station was recently reworked. Photo 31. The operators and inspectors usually ride to and from their 

floors. The office is on the 2d floor with the controls. 4th floor bulk where top ofbins are where the 

swecos are located. Elliot Gibbs works on 4th floor monitoring the sweco. Elliott takes care of floor 

including cleaning sugar. They sweep the sugar. It is not dusty on the 4th floor because the dust 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000729 
collectors are pulling it from the bins. We inventory the sugar in the bins once per month by measuring 

with a measuring tape. We do visual inspection daily by looking and estimating sugar content. Bins hold 

300,000 lbs sugar except C which is 250,000 lbs. 

Photo 3d floor DSC 0038 - 0042 and 0044. Gordon showed Stokes 38 and he said it looked like an exit 

light Photo 0041 - Stokes said he did not know what is was. Photo 0044 - Stokes said he did not 

recognize the picture. 

Stokes said they have to keep the dust collectors working well. He said Ray Holliday's employees kept 

the dust collectors running. When my employees open the bins the dust collectors are still running. In 

order for BS to run, the dust collectors must run. Ifbins run, the dust collectors automatically run. The 

BS will not start up or run ifthe dust collectors are no on. 

The sugar that is cleaned is dropped into the hopper. Gordon showed DSC 0103 and 0105. 

The Kathabar is on the 2d and 4th floors. Photo DSC 0113 and 114 showed filters for Kathabar. Stokes 

saysthat GO shop takes care ofthe Kathabarsystem. 

We only load on weekends. If a spill happens on the weekend, we clean it on Monday. 

4th Floor West side chain hoist used for mechanical work to move heavy equipment (e.g. motor). 

J Bin is also my area and we load trucks there. This is warehouse 6. We have to remove lumps from the 

hummer. GO, Russ Beasley's shop, takes care ofmaintenance. My employees clean the J Bin area. 

Sometimes we clean and do not have Stokes to help us. There is scaffolding set up to install scrolls. GO 

shop is doing the work to install the scrolls. 

There is a hummer at the #6 warehouse and my inspector checks the magnet under the hummer and cleans 

the hummer. We would clean on top ofthe hummer by air and then sweep it up from the floor. No Stokes 

personnel clean in that area. 

Most ofmy employees come in and out from the 2d floor. We seldom go out the 1

st floor because ofthe 

rail cars. Generally they all go out the 2

nd floor exit. 

We have had no fll"es at the Bulk Station since I have been supervising there (12-14 yrs). 

We use two way radios and PA system for communication. We have never had to evacuate since I have 

been at the company. When the power goes out it is dark. There is no emergency lighting. We always 

carry flashlights with us. 

4th floor where tops ofA-H bins are located: There is only sugar on ledges and overhead pipes ifthere is a 

spill on 5

th floor it falls on pipes and scrolls. We blow down with air hoses with reducing air nozzles. We 

do not tum power off. We continue to run the sugar process while we are blowing down. Motors are on 

the scrolls on the 4th floor. We do not have a lot ofdust when blowing down because it is lumped. Only a 

little dust is generated. We do not blow on the floor. 

I have the capability to tum in a work order. Sometimes a mechanical ee comes over and ifbe finds out it 

is an electrical problem then the electrician is called. 

We walk across the top offthe J bins from Bulk station to get to whse #6. 

DOL-IMP-ATL 0000730 
We only process granulated sugar. 

We have companies (Hershey, McKee Baking) and AlB inspections. Dept ofAg comes by to check our 

scales. More than likely they generate reports. They do not have a set time to come. 

We have not had fire drills in years. We do not have a fire alarm as far as I know. I have never heard it. 

We have a PA system that they would announce evacuation ifneed be. The PA system is constantly 

being use.. They give us this information during the safety training each year. 

I have been trained during birthmonth and other special supervisor meetings that sugar dust is 

combustible. The hamrd ofsugar dust is explosion. I knew that sugar was combustible before 21712007. 

The company puts a lot ofemphasis about smoking in the smoking area. No smoking in bulk station. 

None ofmy employees are on the EMT. 

Braddy installs or replaces lighting in the Bulk Station. 

My track mobile operators (Sam Brown) goes in air slides which are smaller rail cars and have confined 

spaces. Markland Davis and Sylvester Wilson are Switch Attendants. Isaac Scott Jr. is Rail Car Attendant 

Our procedure for confined space entry: Snifffor gases; oxygen is not a problem in the hopper because 

ofthe openings on top, hook up safety lines and harness with man up top, fill out confined space permit 

and turn into safety dept. There are 6 lids on hopper car (no entry), 12 port holes on hop on air slides, 4 

swing gates that open on bottom. We go in when it is full and rake towards the swing gate (2 employees 

go in at a time). We have a ventilator that we put on top. Our sniffers are maintained by a contractor. 

Pevey would be able to tell you the contractor. We have never had a mock rescue. The sniffer is used by 

the attendant and trained to use it during birth month training. They have been trained in confmed space. 

The last time they had to enter one was first part of2008. They weartyvek (paper) suits, steel toe shoes, 

safety glasses, and dust mask. We are going away from the air slides and using mostly hoppers. We have 

a database which Tony Boyd maintains that tells how many cars we get in each year. 

I am on safety committee and responsible for writing JSA. 

We have CPI unit that introduces spinning hot water and then released in the bottom. No one enters for 

cleaning. 

I have read the foregoing statement of__pages, and each page has been numbered. I have initialed 

each correction and initialed orsigned each page. I declare under penalty ofperjwy under the laws ofthe 

United States ofAmerica that this statement is true and correct to the best ofmy knowledge. I understand 

it is a felony under 18 U.S.C. 1001 to knowingly make a false statement or omit facts in relation to a 

federal investigation. I request that my statement be held confidential to the extent allowed by law -ORinitial here __to waive confidentiality. 

Signature Date 

Witness: 

Signature Date 

3 DOL-IMP-ATL 0000731 
Secretary ofLabor v. Imperial Sugar Company and Imperial-Savannah, L. P.
 

OSHRC Docket No. 08-1104
 

Respondents' Opposition to Complainant's Motion for Leave to Take the Depositions
 

of Witnesses Who Were Interviewed under Oath by OSHA During the Investigation
 

Administrative Law Judge Covette Rooney
 

Exhibit D
 

Relevant Portions of Transcript of Deposition of Jerome Stokes
 

Filed Electronically on August 25,2009
 
Capital Reporting Company 

J. Stokes 

Page 1 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
 

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH REVIEW COMMISSION
 

SECRETARY OF LABOR, 

Complainant, 

vs. ) CASE NO.: 08-1104 

IMPERIAL SUGAR COMPANY and 

IMPERIAL-SAVANNAH, L.P., 

Respondents. 

Deposition of: 

JEROME STOKES 

called for oral examination by counsel for 

Complainant, at the Hilton Garden Inn Airport, 80 

Clyde E. Martin Drive, Savannah, Georgia, before 

Mynjuan P. Jones, CCR, of Capital Reporting Company, 

beginning at 8:36 a.m., when were present on behalf 

of the respective parties: 

(866) 448-DEPO 

www.CapitaIReportingCompany.com ©2009 
Capital Reporting Company 

J. Stokes 

16 (Pages 58 to 61) 

Page 581 Page 60 

Ion. Whether you're there or not, you'll get I 1 kind of training to be a forklift driver? 

2 information on what the meeting was about. ! 2 A. Yes. You have to get a license. 

3 Q. And who did you get your information from? 1 3 Q. Where did you get your license? 

4 A. It's not no particular person. I just I 4 A. Through the safety department. 

5 talk to people. Julius is a two time shop on I 5 Q. Is that when you were in the pallet shop? 

6 everything. II 6 A. No. This was after I got with the 

7 Q. He's what? 7 company. When I was at the pallet shop, it wasn't 

8 A. Two time shop. He's always ahead of I 8 required. I never heard of a forklift license until 

9 everything going on. He's going to let you know what I 9 I got in the plant. 

10 you need to know. 110 Q. Before the accident what did you learn 

11 Q. I mean, I know like in my workplace if! i11 about sugar dust and any dangers associated with 

12 miss a meeting, you know, I've got a particular 112 sugar dust? 

13 person I can always say, hey, what went on. i 13 A. Honestly I don't remember anything, any 

14 

15 

I was wondering ifyou had somebody that 

you really felt like if you went to that you could 

!14 

i15 

particular training about sugar dust. As a matter of 

fact, we didn't even talk about explosions or 

16 get the lowdown? 116 nothing, even the people that you work around every 

17 A. He's going to make me -- I'm going to get 11 7 day. 

18 the lowdown. That ain't no problem. He's going to I 18 It wasn't never on nobody's mind about no 

19 make sure I know. 119 explosion. Nobody never heard of none as far as I 

20 Q. Ifthere was something crucial covered in ! 20 know. No film or anything about sugar dust 

21 a meeting, he's going to make sure you have it? [21 explosion. We go to work and talk about everything 

22 A. Yes. !122 but explosions. That's the way it was. 

23 MS. MOCK: Want to take a quick break? !23 Q. SO to your recollection, the best of your 

24 THE WITNESS: Sure. i 24 recollection, you don't recall, you know, anyone 

25 (Recess from 9:48 a.m. to 9:57 a.m.) 125 .............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................j..... talking about, you know, that sugar dust could be 

Page 59 Page 61 

1 BY MS. MOCK: 1 explosive? What about sugar dust being able to bum? 

2 Q. Mr. Stokes, we're back on the record after 2 A. Not to my knowledge. Honestly I really 

3 a short break, not the 30 minutes that you requested 3 didn't work with sugar dust. I've been always in 

4 but I think you'll be thankful we didn't take 30 4 package goods or either at the bulk station. So I 

5 minutes. 5 wasn't really where sugar dust actually occurred. 

6 When you first went over and started 6 My thing, you always had bag products on 

7 working, for example, at the white sugar warehouse, 7 pallets. You pick them up and put in the truck. 

8 how did you learn about what kinds of hazards were 8 That's pretty much it. But being in a sugar dust 

9 present in that particular area? 9 area, I wasn't really never in an area with sugar 

10 A. Regular conversation and the regular 10 dust. 

11 safety meetings. That pretty much was it. 11 Q. And I understand and that's helpful as far 

12 Q. SO when you became a forklift driver in 12 as an explanation. I guess what I'm trying to get at 

13 the white sugar warehouse roughly in '81, did you 13 before we talk about whether you were in any areas 

14 have any particular on-the-job training to kind of 14 where you saw sugar or sugar dust is just what you 

15 orient you to that particular location? 15 had learned from Imperial about, you know, whether 

16 A. They actually had films that they show 16 there were any dangers that you needed to look out 

17 you, you sit down with. 1 7 for based on sugar dust. 

18 Q. A film? 18 A. None that I know of. 

19 A. Right. 19 Q. Did you ever see a material -- do you know 

20 Q. Like a video? 20 what a material safety data sheet is? 

21 A. Right, forklift driver, and also give you 21 A. Yes. 

22 literature to go along with it. 22 Q. Did you ever see a material safety data 

23 Q. Was this really specific to forklift? 23 sheet for sugar? 

24 A. To forklift driver. 24 A. No. 

25 Q. Do you have to be certified or have some 25 Q. Did you -­

(866) 448-DEPO 

www.CapitaIReportingCompany.com ©2009 
Capital Reporting Company 

J. Stokes 

17 (Pages 62 to 65) 

1 

2 

3 

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5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

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12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

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19 

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Page 62 

A. For chemicals. 1 

Q. How did you learn about ones for 2 

chemicals? 3 

A. In safety meetings. We're required to 4 

tell you where you need to go at in case you need to 5 

find one, to get one. 6 

Q. Say that last part again. 7 

A. In case you may need one, they tell you 8 

where to go get one. As a matter of fact, they give 9 

us a little wallet size to carry out around with us. 10 

Q. Did they do that before the accident? 11 

A. That was before the accident. 12 

Q. Can you give me an example of one you were 13 

given in a wallet size? 14 

A. I'm trying to remember. As a matter of 15 

fact, I ain't too long took mine out my wallet. I 16 

don't remember exactly what was on it. It was just 17 

like the bigger version. It had just about the same 18 

thing on it. 19 

Q. Had you ever heard of a material safety 2 0 

data sheet for sugar dust or for sugar? 2 1 

A. Mostly just chemical and fires. Tell you 22 

about the type fire extinguisher you would need to 2 3 

put out certain fires. 24 

Q. Did they tell you what kind of fire 2 5 

Page 63 

extinguisher should be used for sugar fires? 1 

A. I can't recall -­ 2 

Q. Before the accident. 3 

A. I can remember paper, electrical. It was 4 

four types, but remembering the four types out of my 5 

head, I can't remember off the top of my head, but 6 

there were four types of different fire extinguishers 7 

we would use to fight fires with, but offthe top of 8 

my head I can't remember. 9 

Q. SO did you talk about -- as the bulk sugar 10 

supervisor did you ever talk about any kind of 11 

dangers of sugar dust with any ofyour employees? 12 

A. Well, we never discussed it because we 13 

actually was really -- we just work in granulated. 14 

In granulated you don't have a bunch of sugar dust. 15 

You know, everything is granulated. 16 

Even if you got a leak, you don't leak 17 

dust. It leaked granulated sugar. We wouldn't be 18 

involved in dust in any kind of way. Most of ours 19 

would be granulated sugar. That's practically it. 2 0 

Q. IfI'm understanding you correctly, is it 21 

fair to say that you didn't discuss with your 22 

employees any kind of dangers presented by granulated 23 

sugar? 24 

A. Well, I don't know the danger that 25 

Page 64 

granulated sugar -- would come from the dangers of it 

because if you got a leak any kind of way with 

granulated sugar, you still don't have dust. You 

just have granulated sugar leaking but you don't have 

dust. 

Q. Do you understand now that sugar can bum? 

A. Well, I know sugar can explode and dust 

can explode but I ain't never seen sugar bum. I 

know after the explosion was I think there was a 

sugar fire they had in the silo, trying to put that 

out, but until that time I never seen it and never 

thought it could. 

Q. Tell me about the fire in the silo you're 

talking about. 

A. I'm talking about after the explosion and 

the fire was burning all these many days -­

Q. Oh, that the sugar burned in the silos for 

a long-­

A. That's what I'm talking about. 

Q. And so would you agree with me then that 

sugar can bum? 

A. Oh, yeah, I have to now. 

Q. Is it fair to say that before the accident 

you didn't think you had any reason to discuss any 

kind of fire hazard associated with sugar? 

Page 65 

A. No. 

Q. SO you would agree with that statement? 

A. Right. 

Q. Since you're a longer-time employee, I 

want to ask you about a couple of incidents. Do you 

recall hearing about a fire in the powder mill back 

in the fall or around August of 200 I? 

A. No. 

Q. Do you recall hearing about a fire in the 

powder mill in October of '07, so the fall just 

before the explosion? 

A. I didn't hear about a fire. I was told 

that they had a minor explosion up there but I never 

heard about a fire. 

Q. SO what did you hear about -- did you hear 

about what you're calling an explosion in the powder 

mill, you heard about that before the accident? 

A. Right. 

Q. What did you hear about? 

A. Nothing but they had a little small 

explosion down there. That's all. It couldn't have 

been nothing major because to me it was like a whole 

bunch people wasn't talking about it -­

Q. They weren't talking about it or were 

talking about it? 

(866) 448-DEPO 

www.CapitaIReportingCompany.com ©2009 
Capital Reporting Company 

J. Stokes 

29 (Pages 110 to 113) 

Page 110 

lout or whatever they need to clean out and then once 1 

2 you start up it will be back doing what it's supposed 2 

3 to do. 3 

4 Q. Where do the lines run that are connected 4 

5 to the dust collector, where do they run from? 5 

6 A. Each line was connected to a bin. 6 

7 Q. SO it was connected to the storage bins? 7 

8 A. Right. 8 

9 Q. SO it was designed to pull the dust -­ 9 

lOA. Out of the bins. 10 

11 Q. -- out ofthe bins? 11 

12 A. Right. 12 

13 Q. And so where would the dust come from that 13 

14 was going into the dust collector? 14 

15 A. I guess from the sugar moving about. 15 

16 Dropping the sugar into the bins create dust, from 16 

1 7 the fall they have to make to fill up the bins. 1 7 

18 Q. Did you or anyone under your supervision 18 

19 have any responsibility for maintenance ofthe dust 19 

20 collectors? 20 

21 A. We don't get into no maintenance. 21 

22 Q. Did you have any responsibility for any 22 

2 3 kind of preventative maintenance on the dust 2 3 

24 collectors? 24 

25 A. The only thing we do is call -- ifwe have 25 

Page 111 

1 a problem, just call the GO shop. I mean, there's 1 

2 nothing we could really do because all of that really 2 

3 applies to taking loose stuff and putting stuff back 3 

4 together, and that was mechanical. We didn't do any 4 

5 mechanical work. 5 

6 MS. MOCK: Let's go off the record for a 6 

7 second. 7 

8 (Discussion offthe record.) 8 

9 BY MS. MOCK: 9 

10 Q. SO prior to the accident what was your 10 

11 understanding ofthe purpose ofthe dust collector? 11 

12 Anything else beyond that it was supposed to just 12 

13 draw dust out your bins? 13 

14 A. That's the only thing I know it was used 14 

15 for. 15 

16 Q. Do you know why they needed to draw the 16 

17 dust out ofthe bin? 17 

18 A. I think to keep from building up pressure 18 

19 inside the bins. Why I say that is because we do 19 

2 0 stock count about once a month. 20 

21 Q. Stock count? 21 

22 A. Right. And we actually have to drop a 22 

23 measurement inside of each bin to come up with the 23 

24 amount of sugar in a bin. Ifyou open that bin and 24 

25 it's pressure on that bin, you know the dust 25 

Page 112 

collector is not doing what it's supposed to do. 

Because every time if you open the cap and 

you get like a little poofwhen you let the bin up, 

because it's done build up that dust inside, so if 

the dust collector is not doing its job, then that's 

what happens inside the bin. 

Q. And the poof is a poof of air or is it a 

poof of dust and you're like -­

A. It's air and dust. And believe me, it 

comes up pretty good once it come out there. 

Q. Do you have any way of knowing whether 

it's going to poof on you or not when you do that 

test? 

A. Well, most all your bins, you know, I 

don't know whether they have another system to help, 

you know, airflow or dust flow out of it. 

But the majority of the time when you open 

it up you can tell what's working and what's not 

working. And the majority of the time you open it 

it's no problem. 

But if the dust collector is stopped up or 

something like that, you can tell which one is which 

because it usually does that. 

So then when that happens, we'll call and 

say, well, the G bin need the dust collector pipe 

Page 113 

cleaned or whatever, and they'll come over and send 

somebody to clean the line up. 

Q. SO would that be a way -- that little poof 

of air and dust when you open up the bin, was that a 

way to know that the dust collector wasn't working -­

A. Wasn't working properly. 

Q. That's what I was going to say. It wasn't 

working maybe as efficiently or properly. I mean, 

it's still working because if it wasn't then your 

system -­

A. Would be shut down. 

Q. Did you guys have any -- how often would 

you do this stock check? 

A. Once a month. 

Q. Was there any other check, you know, for 

this puff by anyone else other than the once a month 

stock check? 

A. Well, we got the Sweco man. The fourth 

floor is his. He keeps it clean. He runs the Sweco 

and he checks the stockings and stuff on the bins to 

make sure everything is straight. 

A lot of times -- Elliott, he's pretty 

good. If you got a problem, he'll let you know 

pretty much. 

Q. Did you say he was checking the stockings? 

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Page 114 

1 A. Yes.
 

2 Q. What is a stocking?
 

3 A. A boot you put over the bin cover itself
 

4 so the bin can breathe.
 

5 Q. Is the stocking designed so it won't let
 

6 the dust out?
 

7 A. Right. Nothing don't come through it at
 

8 all.
 

9 Q. Do those stockings have to be changed?
 

10 A. Yes.
 

11 Q. How often?
 

12 A. Well, we don't change it unless you see
 

13 some kind oftear or something in them. Then we
 

14 change them out.
 

15 Q. How would you know that there's a tear in
 

16 it?
 

17 A. Eventually. He checks them every day. He
 

18 blows them off and he physically checks them.
 

19 Q. He blows them off. What's he blowing off?
 

20 A. Stockings.
 

21 Q. I know. But what is he blowing offthe
 

22 stocking?
 

23 A. Accumulated dust I guess.
 

24 Q. Does he check to see whether there's dust
 

25 on the area where the stocking is connected to the
 

Page 115 

1 bin?
 

2 A. Right. He cleans Swecos, the bins.
 

3 Anything in that area that will cover the operation
 

4 ofthe filling system, he take control of all that.
 

5 Q. And remind me what the Sweco, what that
 

6 is?
 

7 A. Sweco?
 

8 Q. Yes.
 

9 A. That's where you get your different grain
 

10 sizes ofyour sugar. One time they called them 

11 shakers. 

12 They just shake and vibrate and got 

13 different screens and each grain of sugar would fall 

14 in that particular screen and you'll know which 

15 screen is what. 

16 You got A bin which is what we call medium 

17 grain sugar. Then you got your fine grain. Then you 

18 got your baker's special grain. That's the fiber 

19 grain. Them the three types that we actually get 

20 through our system. 

21 (Discussion offthe record.) 

22 BY MS. MOCK: 

23 Q. SO is the Sweco a separate system from the 

24 hummers? 

25 A. Yes. 

30 (Pages 114 to 117) 

Page 116 

1 Q. Is it another -­

2 A. Sweco is on the top floor of the bulk 

3 station, the fourth floor, and we got -- I think it's 

4 14 ofthem. 

5 Q. Fourteen Sweco machines? 

6 A. Right. 

7 Q. Do the Sweco machines give off any dust in 

8 their process? 

9 A. No. 

10 Q. Is it a completely enclosed system? 

11 A. Right. 

12 Q. Except where you said the bag that -­

13 A. It's like a -- it's a boot that connects 

14 the Sweco where the sugar pass through and some of 

15 them is -- it's like a vinyl, a rubber that closes 

16 together and we don't get no -- it's no dust or 

17 anything that pass. It's just the sugar itself, 

18 nothing outside Sweco at all. 

19 Q. Have you ever heard of a system or 

20 something called CARE, C-A-R-E, that's kind of 

21 quality related? Does that ring any bells? 

22 A. No. 

23 Q. Would have been something related to 

24 Hannah Badenschneider? 

25 A. I don't know: 

Page 117 

1 Q. Are you familiar with the term bubble 

2 sheets? 

3 A. Yes. 

4 Q. What's a bubble sheet? 

5 A. It's something that the safety department 

6 had put out and it's like an inspection sheet of your 

7 area of what you do and fill it out on a daily basis, 

8 whatever findings you find in the department, what's 

9 right and what's wrong with it. You tum it in once 

10 a week to the safety department. 

11 Q. Did you have a bubble sheet before the 

12 accident? Did you have a bubble sheet for your area? 

13 A. Well, Graham Granahan had shipped the 

14 bubble sheets off before the explosion started. 

15 Q. That wasn't my question. You had bubble 

16 sheets before -­

17 A. Before the explosion, yes. 

18 Q. What was a bubble sheet -- what was on a 

19 bubble sheet for -- did you have a bubble sheet for 

20 bulk sugar station? 

21 A. Yes. 

22 Q. And what was on a bubble sheet for bulk 

23 sugar to the best of your recollection? 

24 A. I don't remember. It was such a long 

25 list. It was a bunch of stuff on there but I 

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Page 118 

1 couldn't tell you point blank.
 

2 Q. And you mentioned that Graham had stopped
 

3 the bubble sheet, had you guys stop the bubble sheet
 

4 fill out?
 

5 A. Right.
 

6 Q. How did you learn you were going to stop
 

7 using the bubble sheet?
 

8 A. We didn't learn it. It was just told to
 

9 us.
 

10 Q. By whom?
 

11 A. By the department head after we went to a
 

12 meeting.
 

13 Q. SO you learned this from Julius Scott?
 

14 A. Right, that the bubble sheets were
 

15 finished, that we were through with those.
 

16 Q. What was your last comment?
 

17 A. That we were through with the bubble
 

18 sheets.
 

19 Q. Did those start up at any time -­

20 A. Afterwards?
 

21 Q. No, no, no. You stopped them some time
 

22 before the explosion and they never resumed before
 

23 the explosion?
 

24 A. No.
 

25 Q. Have you ever heard ofthe term, in
 

Page 119 

1 reference to like something going on with a piece of
 

2 equipment, of a hiccup?
 

3 A. No.
 

4 Q. Never used that term?
 

5 A. No.
 

6 Q. Or a burp?
 

7 A. No.
 

8 Q. Some people have particular ways that they
 

9 refer to it.
 

10 Did you have any special terms like when
 

11 you had an elevator bucket come loose?
 

12 A. It just tore up. That's it.
 

13 Q. On your north elevator were there spare
 

14 buckets that were kept near the elevator?
 

15 A. No. They had to bring some over when we
 

16 need it. Ifwe needed to replace any, they always
 

17 brought them over when they came.
 

18 Q. Was that true for the south side elevator
 

19 too?
 

20 A. Right.
 

21 Q. Before the explosion do you recall having
 

22 a fire drill at the facility?
 

23 A. Not as I can remember.
 

24 Q. Do you recall having any kind of
 

25 evacuation drill, not necessarily a fire drill?
 

31 (Pages 118 to 121) 

Page 120 

1 A. Not as I know. 

2 Q. Was there an evacuation plan for the bulk 

3 station? 

4 A. None. 

5 Q. Was there any kind of little map on the 

6 wall, posted on the wall in the bulk station ofthis 

7 is how you get out of the bulk station? 

8 A. No. 

9 Q. Before the accident did you know how to 

10 get out of the bulk station in the event of an 

11 emergency? 

12 A. Well, the bulk station is so wide open 

13 till you can get in and out ofthe bulk station from 

14 anywhere. 

15 I mean, once you come out on the steps, 

16 you can go straight across. You can come down and go 

17 out the west side, the backside. 

18 You weren't blocked in where you 

19 couldn't -­ it wasn't surrounded where you couldn't 

20 get out. 

21 The bulk station is real open. It wasn't 

22 closed in. The only thing is we had a roof over our 

23 head, but other than that, everything else is wide 

24 open in the bulk station. 

25 Q. Your Sweco man, was he physically located 

Page 121 

1 up on the fourth floor? 

2 A. The majority of the time, yes. 

3 Q. Before the explosion how would he exit? 

4 How would he evacuate from the fourth floor? 

5 A. Well, he could either come down go to-­

6 go through J bin and come out. He can either go back 

7 through the -- from the Sweco room he can actually go 

8 out through the packing house. He can actually come 

9 downstairs to the office. There were three different 

10 routes from where he was up there. 

11 Q. Did anyone work on the third floor? 

12 A. The third floor, just if something was to 

13 go wrong, we just have to go up there and see what 

14 the problem is. 

15 But other than the Sweco floor which was 

16 the fourth floor and the office, that's where most of 

17 your occupants spend most all the time. 

18 Q. And the office is on the first floor? 

19 A. It's really the second floor but it's not 

20 connected to the second floor. 

21 Q. SO from the office, how would you evacuate 

22 the office? 

23 A. Well, you had a ramp that you could come 

24 out the door. You could go down to the bottom floor, 

25 take the ramp and go back through the packing house 

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Page 122 

side or you could go cross the track toward the 

warehouse. 

Once you got on the ground, you were wide 

open to go any direction you want to go in. If you 

were up top and you had to go out and go toward the 

packing house or either go across the tracks and come 

out by the Number 4 warehouse. 

Q. To your knowledge were any employees who 

were working in the bulk station the day of the 

accident, were any of them injured? 

A. No. 

Q. Now, I apologize but I just want to 

clarify one thing. As bulk station supervisor did 

you have any responsibility over the white sugar 

warehouse? 

A. None. 

Q. As bulk station supervisor did you have 

any occasion to go into the white sugar warehouse? 

A. Yes. A lot of times all of the 

supervisors that work under Julius Scott, we have 

meetings upstairs in the office. And the majority of 

time the only reason I needed to go up there is if we 

have a meeting or something like that. 

Q. Who's that individual? 

A. Julius Scott. 

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Page 124 

You call a golf cart a bucket? 

A. A buggy. 

Q. It's still a particular term. 

You had fire extinguishers in the bulk 

sugar station? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Do you recall how many you had before the 

accident? 

A. I probably can. We had one on each 

loading ramp and we had three on the bottom floor, 

the very bottom floor. You had two on the catwalks 

that lead to the second floor. 

You had one on the third floor alongside 

the manlift. You had one on the fourth floor 

alongside the manlift. You had two inside the halls 

leading out into the fourth floor on the back of the 

house. 

Q. Who was responsible for inspecting the 

fire extinguishers in the bulk station? 

A. I was. That's how I knew how many we had 

up there. 

Q. Pardon? 

A. I was. 

Q. How often did you inspect them? 

A. Once a month. 

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Page 123 

Q. Oh, I know, but you were saying you would 

go to have a meeting with Julius Scott but there was 

another supervisor -­

A. No, supervisor meetings for his 

supervisors that work under him, he would call 

occasional meetings and we would go up there, have 

meetings up there. 

Q. And -­

A. Also -- well, I worked as the warehouse 

attendant one time. And when Tony Boyd, the guy who 

actually does all the trains, rails, and brings the 

trains in and out, I relieve him at times. I've had 

to go up there when he go on vacation or take a day 

off and do his job. But other than that, that's it. 

Q. Now, when you went to Julius Scott's 

office for a meeting, would you have to walk through 

the white sugar warehouse? 

A. Not actually because I got a buggy that I 

ride around in. I could just drive around and come 

out the front door and come upstairs. 

Q. What did you ride around in? 

A. A golf cart. I call it a buggy but it's a 

golf cart. 

Q. Well, that's that kind of term that I'm 

talking about when I mentioned burps and hiccups. 

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Page 125 

Q. Did you ever recall coming across fire 

extinguishers that were empty? 

A. No. 

Q. And did you record the inspections? 

A. Yes. We tum in an inspection sheet once 

a month to the safety department. 

Q. SO the bubble sheets that we were talking 

about just a few moments ago, were those -- can you 

explain to me a little bit more what kinds of things 

you were recording on the bubble sheet. 

A. I have a vague memory of everything on 

that sheet. I couldn't tell you off my head without 

having one. 

Q. That's fair. 

Had you ever heard of a powder mill dust 

project? 

A. No. 

Q. Or a powder mill action plan? 

A. No. 

Q. Did you ever have occasion to go to the 

hummer rooms? 

A. The only time I would go up is if Elliott 

Gibbs wanted me to come up there with him and see 

something. Other than that, I wouldn't have a need 

to go up there for anything. 

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Page 126 

1 Q. Do you remember the last time you were in 

2 the hummer rooms before the accident? 

3 A. To be honest with you, I don't think I've 

4 been up there twice in a year. 

5 Q. SO you can't think of -­

6 A. No. 

7 Q. Do you recall what the hummer room looked 

8 like the last time you were up there or why you were 

9 ~ilicr~

lOA. It got to be five or six different hummers 

11 in there and I know two of them actually sent sugar 

12 to the bulk station and the rest ofthem supplied the 

13 packing area. 

14 One thing when I went up there, we were 

15 looking at the screens, checked to make sure the 

16 screens are clean and clear, but that's practically 

17 it. 

18 Q. Were the two hummers that served the bulk 

19 sugar, were they located in the same room as the 

2 0 other four? 

21 A. Yes. 

22 Q. Were they at one end versus the other? 

23 Were your two hummers separate from the other four? 

2 4 A. Everything was in line together. They had 

25 them one, two, three, four, numbered across and 

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Page 128 

up that glaze on it. 

Q. When you went to the hummer room and saw 

sugar accumulation on the floor, can you give me a 

sense ofhow much you saw? 

A. Maybe about fifteen or twenty thousand 

pounds. 

Q. Can you quantifY that in inches or feet or 

how much -- you know, keeping in mind for me fifteen 

to twenty thousand pounds, that's hard for me to -­

A. Maybe about a dump truck load. 

Q. And how big is this room, the hummer room? 

A. It might be a little bigger than this room 

here. 

MS. MOCK: I will have to get the specs on 

this room, Jeremy. 

MR. TUCKER: Did you bring the measuring 

tape? 

MS. MOCK: No. 

THE WITNESS: Not much bigger. 

BY MS. MOCK: 

Q. Fifteen to twenty thousand pounds of 

sugar? 

A. (Nodded head affirmatively). 

Q. Were you walking on top of the sugar? 

A. You have to get to the hummer to clean 

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Page 127 

everything was in line together. 

Q. Where were your two in that line? 

A. I think could be the third and fourth I 

believe. I can't say that's permanent or definite. 

Q. The last time you went to the hummer room 

do you recall seeing sugar dust on the floor? 

A. No, not the last time, no. 

Q. Do you ever recall going up to the hummer 

room and seeing sugar dust on the floor? 

A. Not dust. 

Q. Just sugar on the floor? 

A. Just granulated sugar, right. 

Q. Do you have any idea what was causing the 

sugar on the floor? 

A. A lot of times if your screens glaze up 

and the sugar won't flow, it's going to back up 

because it can't flow across the hummer screen and go 

through like it's supposed to. So if those screens 

glaze up, the sugar will back up and come out of the 

hummer. 

Q. What causes the glaze on the screen? 

A. You know,just what I would say, if the 

sugar is not properly dried, you know, sometimes and 

it cause -- the dampness of the sugar will cause the 

buildup and the hardness, cause the screen to build 

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Page 129 

them off. Yes. 

Q. SO were you going in there to clean off 

the hummers? 

A. Elliott came and got me and asked me 

because he thought he had to go in there and clean up 

that sugar, which like I'm saying that's the silo man 

responsibility. And he wanted to make sure I seen 

that up there and nobody would come get him to go up 

there to do it. That's when I went up there and saw 

it. 

Q. What did you do? 

A. Well, then I called the silo man. The 

silo man called his supervisor and he came up there 

and the big deal was who was going to clean it up. 

Q. Did they have to figure out which hummer 

was causing the problem? 

A. Well, honestly it had to be more than one 

to put that much sugar out, right. 

Q. And so did it get cleaned up? 

A. Yeah. 

Q. Do you know how long it took to clean up 

that much sugar? 

A. I didn't go back up there. But we had a 

cleaning crew. Bruce Long, he take care of most of 

our cleaning out there and he got his crew and they 

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Page 130 Page 132 

1 went up there. I'm quite sure they were up there 1 Q. Well, I guess I'm trying to understand. 

2 quite a while. 2 When he saw that sugar up there, why did you guys -­

3 Q. Do you remember when that was? Was that 3 I had the impression that you guys were like, okay, 

4 in '07 or '06? 4 whose responsibility is it going to be to clean it 

5 A. I think it was in '07. 5 up. Why would you guys have thought that it may be 

6 Q. Do you remember whether it was earlier in 6 your responsibility to clean it up? 

7 the year or later in the year? 7 A. Because he don't maintain those but he 

8 A. I'm thinking it was during the summer 8 actually make sure they're running, that we're 

9 months. It was piping hot. 9 getting sugar. 

10 Q. SO June, July, August? 10 He go up there and check and make sure 

11 A. Somewhere around there. 11 they're running. Especially if we slow down and we 

12 Q. Did you ever learn what the problem was 12 stop getting sugar, a lot of times it could be 

13 that caused that amount of sugar buildup? 13 because we don't have but so much sugar coming to us 

14 A. No. It wasn't my responsibility honestly. 14 and then it could be because the screens are all 

15 I went up there because one of my guys that actually 15 caked up so -- and that's practically what he done. 

16 works up there, he wanted to know whether he had to 16 Q. And it's kind of like, well, if you're not 

17 go up there and try to get all that sugar up, but I 1 7 checking your screens and making sure your hummer is 

18 never knew what caused it. 18 running correctly and it starts to spew sugar, then 

19 Q. Had you ever seen that much sugar up there 19 it may be considered your responsibility to clean it 

20 before like that? 20 up? 

21 A. No. Like I said, I don't hardly go up 21 A. Well, he had that in his mind, to tell you 

22 there. If I'm not called to come up there and see 22 the truth. And being that the hummers are up there 

23 anything, I don't go up there. 2 3 and he had to check them, I really felt like he 

24 Q. When you saw that amount of sugar in the 24 should have been part of the crew to clean it up. 

25 hummer room, did you consider that to be a safety 25 Q. Did you tell Elliott that? 

Page 131 Page 133 

1 hazard in any way? 1 A. I had to. 

2 A. Not really. I wouldn't say it was a 2 Q. But he got a pass that time? 

3 safety hazard because at the time everything shut 3 A. Elliott is the type guy, if you work with 

4 off. It wasn't nothing running. 4 him, he'll work with you. He's just that type. 

5 Q. How was it that nothing was running? 5 Q. That's good. 

6 A. Because by the time I got up there they 6 Before the accident had you heard of 

7 already cut everything off. I guess whoever saw the 7 something called a housekeeping and sanitation 

8 sugar up there must have told somebody and they had 8 program? 

9 the system shut down. 9 A. Well, we did have a housekeeping program 

10 Q. SO someone besides Elliott was aware that 10 but it's not nothing that -- we had a small group of 

11 there was an issue? 11 guys that had to go around and clean certain areas. 

12 A. Right. He just came and got me after he 12 That's all I know about it. 

13 saw it to make sure what he had to do concerning it, 13 Q. I guess what I'm talking about is some 

14 but that's it. 14 kind of formal written housekeeping and sanitation 

15 Q. Was it part of his responsibilities if 15 program. 

16 there was -- to kind of deglaze the hummers that fed 16 A. I think every area had a responsibility of 

1 7 the bulk station? 1 7 keeping their areas clean, and then, like I say, they 

18 A. He would actually let the silo man know 18 had the quality people would actually come and 

19 what's wrong with the hummers. The silos and the 19 inspect your station and you get a write-up if your 

20 hummers belong to the silo attendant and the packing 2 0 station isn't clean. Whether it was set up as a 

21 house. His thing was just to make sure ours was 2 1 program, I won't definitely say, but you did have 

22 running. That's all. 22 responsibility for your areas. 

23 Q. SO ifhe saw that yours weren't running -­ 23 Q. SO you hadn't seen something written that 

24 A. Then he'll notifY the silo man or either 24 was called a-­

25 the packing house supervisor. 25 A. No. 

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Page 134 Page 136 

1 Q. Okay. Since you mentioned the 1 Q. A what?
 

2 housekeeping responsibility, prior to the accident 2 A. A Subaki door. That's what they call it,
 

3 when someone used the term housekeeping, what did 3 a little square door.
 

4 that mean to you? 4 Q. How do you spell Subaki?
 

5 A. The place having to be kept clean. 5 A. You're talking to the wrong person.
 

6 Q. What did that mean -- in the bulk sugar 6 Q. Is that also known as an observation door?
 

7 station what did that mean? 7 A. Yes.
 

8 A. Well, being where the bulk station is, 8 Q. And those are on the bins?
 

9 cleaning spiderwebs, keeping the floor swept, clean . 9 A. Right. And in order to actually clean to
 

10 up any spillage. 1 1 0 get the lumps out the bin because you don't want to 

11 And every Monday we would actually have a III
 run them through the system. So if we have to get a 

12 cleaning activity that we had every Monday. The i 12 bin that we have a problem with lumps, we actually 

13 first four hours ofthe day on Monday we would shut 113 open that Subaki box door and drain that bin. So 

14 down the station to actually clean the station on 114 then that following Monday that's your job, to get 

15 Mondays. !15 whatever sugar you have to drain out that bin, then 

16 Q. SO you mentioned spiderwebs, floor swept, 1 16 you go ahead Monday to try to get them cleaned up. 

17 and what was the third thing? 1 1 7 Q. How would you drain it out through that 

18 A. Spills. 11 8 observation door? 

19 Q. And cleaning up spills? 119 A. At the bottom ofthe bin. Once you open 

20 A. Uh-huh. 12 0 the bin, it will flow out. And then the lumps, 

21 Q. And then the Monday cleaning? 121 you've got to just knock the lumps out with your 

22 A. R'Ight. !i 22 hands so we can get everything out. Once we get 

23 Q. What would be done on the Monday cleaning? 123 through cleaning the lumps, then we fill the bin 

24 A. Monday cleaning we'll clean from top to !24 again. 

25 bottom. And any major spills, that's when we take 125 Like I'm saying, you didn't have but two I .. 

Page 1351 Page 137 

I 1 our time. If it's too much we can't get through the people per shift on a station so you can't really 

2 week as we're working, when we come in on Monday, we I take a man away to clean that much sugar so we 

3 designate a Monday to get everything up and out the 3 designate a Monday as a cleaning day to get 

4 station. 4 everything out of there. 

5 Q. What do you kind of consider -- you know, 5 Q. Did you ever have the situation where you 

6 you say m1\ior spill. Give me a sense of what you 6 got sugar clumps, you know, middle of the week in a 

7 mean by a major spill. 7 bin? 

8 A. Well, if a bin --like I say, you're 8 A. Well, it's according to how much sugar is 

9 talking about a scroll, a scroll back up and we drop 9 in the bin, you know, it determines how much sugar 

10 more sugar than we can actually pick up during the 110 you have to take out the bin. A lot of times, just 

11 run ofthat day. Then on Monday we're going to make ill like in that silo, when you get to your lowest point 

12 it our business to come in on Monday and get 112 in your bin, that's where most of your lumps are. 

13 everything up on Monday so we can have a clean slate 1 13 So a lot oftimes there's not a whole lot. ! 

14 to start the week out with. 1 14 You may average maybe fifteen or twenty thousand 

15 Q. I think you mentioned before like if you 15 pounds. The bin hold 300,000 pounds. So when you 

16 have to take the scroll cover off to -- i16 get down to that low point, that's where your 1
 

17 A. And then sometimes -- ,

!

i17 accumulation oflumps normally build up at.
 

18 Q. -- cup it out, what size bucket are you 118 Q. SO your Monday cleaning is top to bottom
 

19 dumping it into? 119 and possibly doing some draining of bins as
 

20 A. Five gallon. 120 necessary. Anything else?
 

21 Q. Okay. 121 A. We would come out maybe once a month and
 

22 A. And then sometimes you might have a bin 122 actually do a total wash down.
 

23 that's clogged up and the only way to actually clean !23 Q. Once a month total wash down. And that
 

24 that bin out, if you got some lumps in the bin, you 124 would be on a Monday?
 

25 got a Subaki door -- [25 A. No, weekend.
 

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36 (Pages 138 to 141) 

Page 1381 Page 140 

1 Q. Okay. 

2 A. Why we can clean on the weekend is because 

3 we load trucks through the week and a truck takes up 

4 a lot of our business. 

5 We average something like 20 trucks a day 

6 and you don't get a chance to do that type cleaning. 

7 So on the weekend we usually just load railcars. So 

8 all the bays are open. The warehouse is open. We 

9 can get in and do a thorough wash down. 

1 0 So once a month we go in there with fire 

1 Q. Have you ever been up to the fourth floor 

2 where you actually could see kind of like a film of 

3 sugar on the wall? 

4 A. Well, really the wall part of it is -- we 

5 didn't have -- the walls were practically away from 

6 the bins itself. 

7 Most of your accumulation would be over 

I 8 

i 9 I

! 1 0 

your bins and each bin surrounding got a gap between 

each bin. It won't flush together. 

So a lot of sugar, when he's blowing it 

11 hoses and wash everything down, squeegee it down and !11 down, is dropping between those bins. That's how it 

12 clean it out. 

13 Q. The once a month cleanings, was there a 

14 record kept ofthose? 

15 A. I guess it should have been. I ain't 

16 going to say it was. 

17 Q. Like ifI was looking for a paper trail on 

18 those -­

19 A. I never kept records. We just go in there 

20 and clean. That's it. 

21 Q. The top to bottom cleaning, how would -­

112 get to the next floor. 

I 13 It get to the bins, and when you're on 

114 let's say the second floor, we actually have a pipe 

115 on the floor, that once we get so much buildup we can 

I 16 drop it in that pipe until it shoot into the floor. 

117 Q. My question is before Elliott starts his 

! 18 cleaning on Monday, when he goes up to the fourth 

119 floor, you know, you said there could be some sugar 

!20 on some beams and, what, sugar on top of the scroll? 

!

i 21 A. Right. 

22 the Monday top to bottom cleaning, how would that be j 22 Q. Sugar on the floor? 

23 done?
 

24 A. Elliott, like I say, he handle the fourth
 

25 floor, and ifhe got like any kind of buildup of
 .................................................... ······.···m.·.··.•...·..· ·.·..· · ·
 

Page 

1 sugar anywhere, he just blows it down to the next 

2 level until we get everything down to the bottom 

3 floor. 

4 Q. I thought there was a solid floor on 

5 

6 A. But you still can blow -- you got a 

7 stairway that we go down, so we just blow it to the 

8 stairway until we get everything down to the bottom. 

9 Q. Did he clean elevator surfaces too? 

10 A. Elevators? 

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A. Right. 

Q. Would you ever see sugar kind oflike 

attached to the wall at all or not really? 

Page 141 

A. Not sugar. You might have a little dust 

but not sugar itself. Most ofyour sugar is 

granulated and falling. 

Q. And so would he blow down -- ifhe went up 

there and he saw like some fine dust on the wall, 

would he blow down the wall too? 

A. Elliott will blow you away. He's just 

that type fellow with cleaning. Two things he love, 

a water hose and an air hose. Ifyou give him one of 

them, you just leave him alone and he'll be good to 

11 Q. You know, like on the fourth floor -- have go the rest ofthe day. But it will be clean. 

12 you ever been up to the fourth floor where you saw 112 Q. Is he also -- on his Mondays is he also 

13 any kind of sugar on the wall? 13 trying to get out any spiderwebs too? 

14 A. He blows everything down. As he comes i14 A. We cleaning whatever that we can clean, 

15 down, he blows everything down as he comes down. You 115 we'll clean. 

16 got sugar buildup on beams because you got beams
 

17 running in all different angles to hold them bins up.
 

18 And the only way to get to them is by blowing.
 

19 You have the long nozzles on the hoses and
 

20 you blow everything down to each floor until you get
 

21 to the bottom.
 

22 Q. Was his responsibility on Monday to clean
 

23 offthe beams as well?
 

24 A. Right. As he comes down, he blows
 

25 everything as he come down.
 

j 1 6 Q. Third floor, you said that's a scroll.
 

11 7 Would someone clean the third floor?
 

11 8 A. Right.
 11 9 Q. Who got third floor?
 

12 0 A. Elliott.
 

2 1 Q. Did Elliott just work his way down?
 

i 22 A. He work his way down. Everybody take
 

123 everything below him and when he get through with
 

I2 4 it -- he's through once he gets things blown down.
 

1 2 5 Then everybody else, we take care of everything else
 

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that needs to be done. 1 

Q. Did he use water on the fourth floor? 2 

A. Only when we wash down the fourth floor. 3 

We got a drain that will drain down. Normally we 4 

don't wash -- when we wash you have to wash 5 

everything at the same time so we get up there and 6 

clean together. 7 

Q. When would you do that? When would you do 8 

a wash? 9 

A. On the weekend. I ain't saying every 1 0 

weekend but we have weekends we do that. We have 11 

shutdown time. We got extra time. Because ifyou're 12 

loading through the week, you got two people loading 13 

railcars and doing trucks. The biggest time is when 14 

the weekend roll around because if we have to do 15 

anything, we just load railcars, so that free up some 16 

time to do some things. 1 7 

Q. Am I understanding you correctly that 18 

Monday cleaning did not include water cleaning? 19 

A. Ifwe couldn't get the sugar up and with 20 

the normal time where we can get to the water, yes, 21 

we would, but if not -- it's according to how much 22 

sugar you got on the floor to pick up. 23 

If you got enough sugar to sustain the 24 

whole four hours, then that's what you spend the time 25 

Page 143 

in. Ifwe can get it all up, then we'll go ahead and 1 

wash the bottom floors down and everything once we 2 

got people over there to do it. 3 

Q. Whether you wash down, did that depend on 4 

how much time you had to let it dry before you had to 5 

start back up? 6 

A. Well, we don't put water inside the 7 

scrolls. We just blow down the scrolls. All the 8 

washing that's done is getting the floors clean. 9 

Q. Okay. So washing is strictly floors only? 10 

A. Right. Because if you ever wet them 11 

scrolls, you're going to have to give them scrolls 12 

practically eight hours time drying time to dry. 13 

Q. On the observation doors, are they -- how 14 

are those designed in terms of -- how are they 15 

designed in terms of being sealed so you wouldn't 16 

have any sugar coming out? 1 7 

A. They got gaskets, got a big gasket around 18 

the door. You got a pull lock. The lock handle 19 

flips over on the latch and put it back down and 20 

tighten it down. It don't leak. 21 

Q. What was the gasket made of? 22 

A. I think it's rubber. 23 

Q. Who was responsible for any kind of 24 

maintenance on the -­ 2 5 

Page 144 

A. The GO shop take care of all our 

maintenance other than electrical. 

Q. Right. Okay. Did you have any kind of 

vacuum system for cleaning in the bulk sugar -­

A. Well, we were always told that we were 

going to get a vacuum but they got to test one for 

dust proof and all that other kind of stuff and we 

never got it. 

Q. Tell me about what do you mean test for 

dust proof? 

A. That you'll be able to use in certain 

environment. You got to have a certain -- some kind 

of ratings. Ifyou're going to use a vacuum in 

certain areas, it's got to be some kind of special 

rated vacuum cleaner and they never got us one. 

Q. In the liquid sugar, did you supervise 

cleaning in the liquid sugar? 

A. Liquid sugar is mostly just washed down. 

Everything is washed down. You don't have no open 

floor or no kind of powder dust or anything. 

Q. Any kind of granulated sugar over there? 

A. No kind of granulated. Everything is 

melted and produced and sent to us. The only thing 

we do is just house it in the tanks until the time to 

load it and load it out. The only thing you're doing 

Page 145 

over there is just water hose and washing down 

everything. 

Q. Do you recall any kind of inspections by 

outside parties like, you know, AlB? 

A. Yes. 

Q. That's what, American-­

A. Institution of Bakers. 

Q. Can you recall any other outside 

inspections? 

A. We have different companies that buy from 

us that come by and give us inspections periodically. 

Q. Who was that before the accident? 

A. H.C. Brill, McKee Baking, Hershey. 

Q. Hershey like the chocolate? 

A. Yes. That's all I can think of. 

Q. Do you have any idea how often they came 

in before -- AlB was, what, once a year? 

A. Yes. 

Q. What about H.C. Brill? 

A. They just wanted to come and look at the 

facility, but we didn't have a specific time frame 

for any ofthe companies to come in. 

Q. Do you recall H.C. Brill, McKee, or 

Hershey coming for an inspection any time in '07? 

A. The only one I believe was out there was 

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38 (Pages 146 to 149) 

Page 146 Page 148 

1 Hershey. That's the only one I believe. 1 Q. SO you know it's going to be Tuesday next 

2 Q. Do you recal1 any of those companies 2 week? 

3 coming to inspect in '08 before the accident? 3 A. Right. 

4 A. No. 4 Q. And if AlB is not coming, then it's the 

5 Q. Did you clean before the AlB inspection? 5 Monday morning cleaning? 

6 A. Everybody does. 6 A. Right. 

7 Q. What kind of cleaning did you do for AlB? 7 MS. MOCK: It's noon by my clock. Let's 

8 A. Wash it down, clean spiderwebs, mopping, 8 take a little lunch break. 

9 whatever it take to get your station clean. It's 9 MR. TUCKER: Okay. 

10 nothing specific, just general cleaning. 10 (Lunch recess from 11 :59 a.m. to 12:50 

11 Q. Was there any difference between the 11 p.m.) 

12 cleaning that you did, you know, the Monday cleaning 12 BY MS. MOCK: 

13 or the weekend cleaning? 13 Q. Back on the record after a lunch break. 

14 A. It would actual1y be the same type 14 Mr. Stokes, one housekeeping item. Could 

15 cleaning. 15 you provide your address and a contact telephone 

16 Q. No extra effort, no different focus? 16 number, please. 

17 A. No. The only thing they do, they give you 17 A. 1430 Eleanor Street, E-l-e-a-n-o-r, 

18 more time to clean. 18 Street, 31405, (912) 232-7697. 

19 Q. About how much time? 19 Q. Is that Eleanor Street in Savannah? 

20 A. We usual1y start cleaning about a week in 20 A. Right. 

21 advance for AlB. 21 Q. One fol1ow-up question. We were talking 

22 Q. SO what would you be doing over that week? 22 about -- before the break talking about vacuums and 

23 A. Clean spiderwebs, making sure your white 23 you said that you-al1 didn't use vacuums in the bulk 

24 lines are clean like it's supposed to be around the 24 station because they needed to get one that was 

25 station and stuff like that. 25 rated? 

Page 147 Page 149 

1 Q. What are the white lines for? 1 A. Special rated. I think we can't use, you 

2 A. I think it's a spot, you know. It's sort 2 know, any kind ofvacuum cleaner. It has to be some 

3 of like a pest control, you know, and pest usual1y 3 special type. I don't know what it is. 

4 travel alongside the wal1s, and it's this light they 4 I was going to volunteer and buy a vacuum 

5 shine around, dark light or black light or blue light 5 cleaner but they had to be some kind ofspecial1y 

6 or whatever they cal1 it, to just check pest traffic 6 rated vacuum cleaner. 

7 I believe that's what you might want to cal1 it. But 7 Q. Whose idea was it to have a vacuum? 

8 that. Just general cleaning. I mean, you're doing 8 A. The guys who be shoveling up al1 that 

9 the exact same thing, just a little bit more of it. 9 sugar. 

10 Q. Are you doing some of it each day during 10 Q. Which guy is that? 

11 that week? 11 A. The same guys that 1 list right there. 

12 A. Right. As a matter of fact, you know, 12 Q. Elliott Gibbs? 

13 being, like I'm saying, we ain't got but so many guys 13 A. Everybody that works in the bulk station 

14 on the shift, they'll let these guys, if they want to 14 thought it would be a good idea to have a vacuum in 

15 stay over a couple hours for cleanup, they'l1 al10w 15 there. 

16 them to stay over and get the station clean. 16 Q. Did you take that idea up your chain? 

17 Q. Is it fair to say that you're doing that 17 A. Wel1, I talked with Tom Wilson, the 

18 cleaning in that approximate week before the AlB 18 quality -- head ofthe quality out there and he was 

19 inspection, that you're doing that cleaning each day 19 tel1ing us about it had to be kind of special rated 

20 to kind of maintain that high level of cleanliness? 20 for certain things ifyou're going to use one in the 

21 A. Right. 21 facility so... 

22 Q. Do you know exactly what day AlB is 22 Q. Did he say why it needed to be special1y 

23 coming? 23 rated? 

24 A. They give us an announcement and let us 24 A. I guess because ofthe environment. I'm 

25 know when they're coming. 25 guessing. 

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A. 2 feet wide, 3 feet high. 

Q. And then once you take that off, then will 

the sugar kind of cascade out? 

A. Right. 

Q. And you mentioned about, you know, 

sometimes it could be there for a couple days, 

depending on how long it takes you to clean it out. 

What's the longest you can recall the 

sugar accumulation at the bottom ofthe bucket 

elevator ifyou had kind of an upset situation before 

it was cleaned up? 

A. Well, it depends because even if we can't 

clean it up then, sometimes we would actually get the 

trackmobile guys to come over and clean it because if 

they're not doing anything, they're caught up with 

their track, cleaning up over there, then we'll get 

them to come over and give them guys a hand and clean 

it up. We try to get it up as soon as possible. 

Q. Is it fair to say that sometimes that 

spill wouldn't get cleaned up until the following 

Monday ifyou had a busy week? 

A. Sometimes. 

Q. In November of 2007 do you recall that 

being a period where you were having some upsets with 

the elevator such that you would have sugar at the 

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Page 156 

south side hummer that feeds the -- that the sugar go 

through. 

Q. Is that like where we were talking about 

before -­

A. That's Sweco. We're talking hummers now. 

Q. Right. 

A. We got two hummers up there too on the 

fifth floor, not on the roof. 

Q. SO these are different hummers than the 

ones we were talking about earlier? 

A. Right. These are a lot smaller. Them 

other hummers are huge. These are just two small 

hummers that the sugar goes through before it 

actually go into the system. 

Q. SO they go through the hummers in the 

other room that we were talking about earlier and 

then they come to these hummers? 

A. Right. 

Q. What are these hummers called to 

distinguish them from the other hummers? 

A. The only thing I know is one is bigger 

than the other. They do the same job, send sugar 

through them. 

Q. And the manlift -­ so in order to access 

those two hummers, are they in their own separate 

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base ofthe manlift? 

A. I couldn't give you an exact time frame as 

far as the date go because, I mean, sometimes you 

might run that elevator six, seven, eight, nine, ten 

months with no problem but then, you know, you come 

~~a~~~

Just to label a date and time, I really 

couldn't tell you off the top ofmy head. 

Q. Am I correct in thinking that the manlift 

would get off at each floor, second, third, fourth 

floor? 

A. Right. 

Q. Did it end at the fourth floor? 

A. Fourth floor. 

Q. Would there ever be an occasion where 

there would be sugar accumulated when you would get 

out ofthe manlift on the fourth floor? 

A. It's not the fourth floor where we would 

have the sugar accumulated. It would actually be the 

fifth floor, but the manlift don't take you to the 

fifth floor. You have to get off at the fourth floor 

and walk up to the fifth floor. 

Q. How would you have sugar accumulated up on 

the fifth floor? 

A. You got the north side hummer and the 

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room? 

A. It's not a room. It's just in an area. 

It's not a room itself. It's just an area up there, 

a manlift, got one on one side and one on the other 

side. 

Q. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm confused. I thought 

you said the manlift ended at the fourth floor and 

you had to take the steps up. 

A. The manlift, it goes up to the fifth floor 

but you can't ride it to the fifth floor. That's 

your cutoff. 

When it turns and come over, you can't 

ride it that far so you have to get off at the fourth 

floor and walk up to the fifth floor. 

Q. Would sugar from the hummers ever cause 

problems in the manlift up on the fifth floor? 

A. The sugar from the hummers don't cause a 

problem. You asked me how do sugar get on the floor. 

I mean, that's how the sugar get on the floor, is 

from the hummer. 

What it is, how sugar get on the floor 

from the hummer, you got lumps that go through the 

hummer just like it does on the other side. 

In order to get that sugar down from the 

hummer, you have to put it in buckets and sometimes 

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Page 158 Page 160 

1 you get more sugar -- more lumps than you can full up 1 you get them in the next spot. It's better to catch 

2 buckets. 2 them at the hummer if you can catch them at the 

3 So several times we have several buckets 3 hummer than to let them go through the scrolls 

4 that fill up and run over trying to get all those 4 because once they go through the scrolls you have a 

5 lumps out so we can start it back up and keep it 5 big problem. 

6 ru~~ 6 Ifyou get them at the hummer, get the 

7 Q. SO if you've got to clean up the sugar up 7 hummer clean, then you don't have to worry about it 

8 on the fifth floor at the hummers, then do you bring 8 going through the system. 

9 it down in the manlift? 9 Q. Who was responsible for keeping an eye on 

lOA. Bring it down in buckets, down the steps. 10 those hummers? 

11 Q. Down to the fourth floor? 11 A. The operator and inspector, bulk operator 

12 A. Right. 12 and inspector. 

13 Q. Then would you ride it down in the 13 Q. Was Elliott Gibbs the one who would check 

14 manlift? 14 the hummers over with the other -­

15 A. No. You don't ride nothing on the 15 A. No, that wasn't his responsibility. He 

16 manlift, only you. Nothing can ride on the manlift. 16 took care of the Swecos and, like I say, he look at 

1 7 As a matter of fact, you have to have a certified 1 7 the hummer on the roof, but the hummer inside the 

18 card to ride the manlift. Anybody can't ride the 18 bulk station belong to the bulk operator and the bulk 

19 manlift. 19 inspector. 

20 Q. Are all your employees certified? 20 Q. And the bulk operator, when he's looking 

21 A. Yes. 21 at his computer screen, does he have an indicator on 

22 . Q. I'm sorry. I guess I'm not completely 22 those two hummers? 

23 understanding. So do you tote the -- how do you get 23 A. Not for that. 

24 the sugar down off the fifth floor in the hummers if 24 Q. How does he know he has got a problem? 

25 it's too much to bring down in a bucket? 25 A. You have to troubleshoot. If it go to 

Page 159 Page 161 

1 A. You kept shoveling it in buckets, in 1 backing up and start getting lumps, I mean, if you 

2 5-gallon buckets. Every time we full up and we go on 2 work there for a while, I mean, that comes from 

3 the fourth floor, you got another one of them port 3 experience. 

4 holes on the fourth floor. You take it down there 4 If you work there for a while, then you 

5 and we dump it in there and we go back up the steps, 5 pretty much know where to go check first because the 

6 keep filling up that bucket until we get it all up. 6 hummers is going to be one ofthe first. 

7 Q. Is there anything else in this area 7 Even if you don't worry about checking the 

8 besides the two hummers? 8 scroll, you're going to check the hummer because 

9 A. That's practically it. 9 everything got to come through the hummer to get to 

10 Q. And the top part of the motor -­ 1 0 the scroll. 

11 A. That scroll on top of the hummer that feed 11 Q. If you've got a problem in the scrolls, 

12 the sugar down to the hummer. 12 you've got a problem in the hummers? 

13 Q. Do you have any kind of upset conditions 13 A. Right. 

14 up in that hummer that are different than the other 14 Q. SO how often would that -- those two 

15 ones where you said like the screen will get glazed? 15 hummers in that area, how often would you clean up 

16 A. It's about the same condition in all of 16 the sugar up there or clean out that area? 

17 iliem. 17 A. Only if you got problems is the only 

18 Q. When was the last time before the accident 18 reason you have to clean it out. I mean, it's on a 

19 that you were up in -- looking at those fifth floor 19 daily cleanup schedule, but, I mean, as far as having 

20 hummers? 20 problems where you have lumps and stuff in sugar like 

21 A. Well, we do it occasionally because if you 21 that, it's only coming when you start having lumps 

22 get the lumps in one area, you're going to get lumps 22 coming from the silo coming to us. 

23 there too. They got to travel through the same 23 But, like I say, as long as you got good 

24 system. 24 sugar coming, you probably would have no problem with 

25 So if you don't catch them in one spot, 25 the hummers at all. They do their job. 

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Q. Was that part of the Monday cleaning? 1 

A. The hummers? 2 

Q. Yes, those two hummers. 3 

A. No. 4 

Q. Why not? 5 

A. Because you clean the hummers as you need 6 

to. It might be every day you might have to do 7 

something to it but it is not set on a schedule that 8 

you go and clean the hummers on Monday. 9 

Because if you're going to be checking 10 

your hummers and you find out you have a problem with 11 

your hummers, you clean them then. 12 

Q. Staying with those two hummers for a 13 

second, what's the most accumulation you've ever seen 14 

at those two hummers? 15 

A. Well, it all depends on the silo and what 16 

the silo sending us. I mean, like I'm saying, if you 17 

are in -- the silo send you good sugar, you got no 18 

problem, but if you got the silo getting down to its 19 

lowest points and they're sending sugar to you, you 2 0 

might have a lump problem all that day and you're 2 1 

going to accumulate more sugar because you got to 2 2 

pull it out. 23 

In order to keep it running you got to 2 4 

steady go over there pulling sugar out. You ain't 25 

Page 163 

got time to clean up every time you drop a piece of 1 

sugar out of there, to clean it up. So you might 2 

have to come back on a later date and clean it up. 3 

But you got to keep it running, and you got two of 4 

them going the same way. 5 

As long as the silo is low, running your 6 

sugar, you're going to have lump problems. 7 

Q. SO how does the operator keep the hummer 8 

operating? What does he do with the sugar? 9 

A. What he does with the sugar? 1 0 

Q. Yes. 11 

A. How do you mean? 12 

Q. You're saying that you've got to clean out 13 

the lumps in order to keep the hummer operating, 14 

right? 15 

A. Uh-huh. 16 

Q. Is that right? 17 

A. Right. 18 

Q. What's he putting the sugar into? 19 

A. Buckets. 20 

Q. SO have you ever gone up there to that 21 

or --let me back up this way. Has an operator ever 22 

come to you and said, Mr. Stokes, we've got a problem 23 

with the hummers, we got sugar on the floor? 24 

A. Uh-huh. 25 

Page 164 

Q. He has? 

A. Right. 

Q. Have you ever gone up there to inspect 

that? 

A. As a matter of fact, I've went up there 

and helped clean the hummers out, as a matter of 

fact, to keep them running, to keep the inspector 

doing what he was doing. 

I had to get me a pair of gloves and stand 

up to the hummer and take the lumps out the hummers 

while he's doing his job and he's doing his job in 

order to kept it running. 

Q. Do those hummers experience that glazing 

problem? 

A. Yes. Any time you got sugar coming off a 

screen and, you know, like you got a curing time, and 

if the sugar hasn't cured for its full time, the 

sugar will be kind of damp. 

That's why you got a curing time at the 

bulk station. Before we even use any sugar, sugar 

has to cure in that bin for at least six hours. 

Q. Do the bins have some system where they-­

what's the curing process in the bin? 

A. We run Kathabar air through the sugar. 

Q. I was just wondering if there was a 

Page 165 

similar situation. 

A. Right. 

Q. Have you ever gone up to the hummer room 

where these two hummers are located and seen sugar on 

the floor? 

A. Yes. 

Q. How much sugar on the floor? 

A. Quite a bit. I mean, if you're running 24 

hours and you're steady getting lumps the whole time 

and you're trying to keep it running, you full up all 

the buckets you're going to full up. Once you done 

moved the buckets and you come up and the hummer 

steady running, you just have to keep shoveling out 

and keep it running. And then when everything level 

off, then you get a chance to go back and clean the 

sugar up. 

Q. SO if the buckets are full, then you're 

just going to put the sugar on the floor? 

A. You don't have much of a choice. 

Q. You've got to keep it running? 

A. Right. 

Q. Can you think of the last time you were up 

there before the accident where you were having a 

problem with the hummers, with those two hummers? 

A. I couldn't give you an exact date. To be 

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43 (Pages 166 to 169) 

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Page 166 

truthful about it, I couldn't give you an exact date. 

Q. Sometime in '07? 

A. Oh, yeah, sometime definitely. 

Q. More than once in 2007? 

A. Yeah, more than once. 

Q. Once a month? 

A. I ain't going to say once a month. You 

might have the same problem three or four times that 

week until you get that system clean of that sugar 

that you're running. 

Q. To your knowledge would there be any 

record of -- you know, would you be reporting that 

problem to anybody? Would there be any way of me 

understanding how often that happened? 

A. I don't think it's -- I mean, we didn't 

kept paper record on how much time we had to go in 

there and dig the hummer out. You know, we didn't 

keep record on that. 

Like I'm saying, it's a cycle. As long as 

you got good sugar coming, you don't have no problem 

with the hummers, only when you start getting lumps. 

Then that's what back the hummers up. 

As long as you got good sugar, no lumps in 

the sugar, you don't have a problem. Like I'm 

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Page 168 

Anderson. Those were the four silo men. 

Q. Willie Brown, Bernard Anderson, and 

Mr. Quarterman. Would you-all contact one of the 

silo men when you were having a problem with the 

lumpy sugar? 

A. The silo man was under the direction of 

the packing house operator. We would talk to the 

packing house operator and he would contact the silo 

man. 

Q. Who would that be? Who was that? 

A. One ofthe supervisors were Isaac Green, 

Alphonso Fields. I don't know the other two but I do 

know those two. 

Q. Alphonso Fields, is he one of the people 

that died? 

A. Right. 

Q. SO how long would it take to clean up that 

hummer room when you run out of buckets? 

A. Well, it's according to how much time you 

want to spend in there. I mean, we can go up there 

actually and as long as we're just concentrating on 

getting the sugar out, within an hour or two you can 

get all the sugar out. That's no problem. It's 

according to what time you got dedicated toward 

cleaning it. 

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Page 167 

months and never experience anything as long as the 

sugar flowing good but... 

Q. SO if I'm understanding you correctly, as 

the sugar in the silos get lower, it gets more 

dampness in it? 

A. I don't know whether it dries better from 

the top to the bottom. I'm not a silo man. But I do 

know the lower it get, that's when you start having 

problems. 

Q. With the lumps? 

A. Right. 

Q. To your knowledge are there any other 

situations other than the amount in the silo getting 

lower that causes lumpy sugar for you-all? 

A. That's the only problem I can think of. 

Q. You know, you mentioned a silo man. Can 

you recall the names of any of the silo men that you 

dealt with? 

A. I think one ofthem was Charles Johnson. 

Q. Tom Johnson? 

A. Charles. 

Q. Charles Johnson. Okay. 

A. Two of them I think -- one of them got 

killed in the explosion. I'm trying to remember his 

name. Earl Quarterman. Willie Brown and Bernard 

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Page 169 

Q. Can you think of a time where it took you 

more than a day to get it cleaned out? 

A. Only ifyou kept getting lumps off, all 

through the night and all through the next day, which 

that has happened on occasion, all day long and all 

the next day. 

Q. SO at that point are you into the third 

day to get it cleaned out if it's been running bad 

for two days? 

A. Right. 

Q. Can you ever think of a situation where 

it's lasted more than three days? 

A. Well, it has lasted all the way up to a 

week. We had accumulated quite a bit of sugar. But 

as soon as we can get everything back running smooth, 

then we go up there and we get it out. You have to 

because you ain't got but so much room to walk around 

up there so -­

Q. How big is that area where those two 

hummers were located? 

A. It's a very small walk area. It's not no 

big area. Because you got your elevators there. You 

got your hummers there. And the walkway space ain't 

but so big up there. 

So actually in order to keep room you have 

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Page 218 

1 A. In cabinet drawers. 

2 Q. Is that communicated to employees? 

3 A. Everybody knew because everybody use the 

4 same drawer. 

5 Q. Who was responsible for restocking the -­

6 A. Mainly all our restocking is really done 

7 by the day shift personnel. The man on the day 

8 shift, whoever was on day shift, they supposed to get 

9 whatever we need to help out through the rest of the 

10 day and the rest of the night.
 

11 Q. Would they let you know that, hey, we're
 

12 running low on batteries?
 

13 A. They know they needed batteries. They
 

14 don't have to ask me to go get batteries. They just
 

15 go up there and get batteries and come back.
 

16 Q. Where do they go to get the batteries?
 

17 A. To the storeroom.
 

18 Q. Am I correct in understanding that other
 

19 than the exit signs over doors, there was no other
 

20 lighting -­

21 A. No. Not once the power go out, no.
 

22 Q. Was there any kind of natural light in the
 

23 bulk station when the power went out?
 

24 A. If you're working day shift, you got
 

25 sunlight.
 

Page 219 

1 Q. That's my question. Where would the 

2 sunlight be coming in from? 

3 A. Well, like I said, the bulk station is not 

4 closed in. The only thing you got is a roof over 

5 there so you got all the daylight outside still 

6 flowing into the office part ofthe bulk station. 

7 But inside the bulk station itself past 

8 beyond the office then there's no light because that 

9 building is closed in so you don't have no light once 

10 you pass the bulk station office.
 

11 Q. SO like if Elliott Gibbs is up on the
 

12 fourth floor -­

13 A. He'd be in the dark.
 

14 Q. But he has a flashlight?
 

15 A. He has a flashlight.
 

16 Q. Did any ofyour employees evacuate after,
 

17 you know, that evening when the explosion happened?
 

18 A. Evacuate? What you mean?
 

19 Q. You know, that they got out.
 

20 A. Had to get out?
 

21 Q. Yes.
 

22 A. Yes.
 

23 Q. Do you recall who was working?
 

24 A. Hilton Smith and David Mayes.
 

25 Q. Did you talk with them about their
 

56 (Pages 218 to 221) 

Page 220 

1 evacuation from the building? 

2 A. Well, David Mayes never came back after 

3 the explosion. He went and joined the service and 

4 the brief telephone call I had with him he was just 

5 mostly telling me about what had happened. 

6 And Hilton, he came back -- I think Hilton 

7 was affected emotionally than actually being hurt. 

8 He came back to work. 

9 But as far as them two, that's only the 

10 two that actually been involved in it. Everybody 

11 else was off that day. 

12 Q. What did David Mayes tell you about 

13 getting out? 

14 A. Well, he told me he just ran through the 

15 Number 6 warehouse where J bin is and just ran out 

16 the door. 

17 Hilton ran down the stairs and went out 

18 the railroad tracks down toward the river. And 

19 that's practically it. 

20 Q. No physical injury to either one? 

21 A. Not as far as I know. 

22 Q. The manlift that y'all used in the bulk 

23 station, did it have any kind of self-closing gate or 

24 maze system on it? 

25 A. No. 

Page 221 

1 Q. Did it have any kind ofgate on any of the 

2 floors? 

3 A. No. 

4 Q. And you were aware it didn't have a gate? 

5 A. Right. 

6 Q. Did you flag that to anyone as any kind of 

7 problem or safety concern? 

8 A. Well, we had safety over there and safety 

9 would come over there and inspect to make sure it's 

10 running and everything. Nobody specified that we had 

11 to have a gate. 

12 Q. Did you consider it to be at all dangerous 

13 not having a gate on the manlift? 

14 A. No. I figured if you followed procedures 

15 on how to ride it, you know, wasn't no problem. 

16 Q. Now, was there also some kind of emergency 

17 ladder that ran alongside the manlift? 

18 A. Well, you had the steps to take you up to 

19 the same floors that the -­

20 Q. Was there also some kind ofladder? 

21 A. No. 

22 Q. SO your recollection, there was no kind of 

23 emergency ladder in the vicinity of the manlift? 

24 A. It's some railings that's fixed up like a 

25 ladder but you couldn't climb down that. That's why 

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