1

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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5 

### Public Hearing on the Proposed Federal Plan 6


### and Model Rules for the Clean Power Plan 7 

### For Existing Power Plants 8

9 

### Day 1 10

11 

### 8:59 a.m. to 7:38 p.m. 12 

### Thursday, November 19, 2015 13

14

15


### Sam Nunn Atlanta Federal Center 16 

### Main Tower Bridge Conference Center 17 

### 61 Forsyth Street, SW 18 

### Atlanta, GA 30303 19

20

21

222

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### EPA Panel: 1 

### Morning Session: 2 

### ANNE HEARD, Deputy Regional Administrator, EPA 3 

### JEANANNE GETTLE, Deputy Director of Air 4 

### Pesticides and Toxics Management Division, EPA 5 

### COLIN BOSWELL, Office of Air Quality Planning 6 

### and Standards, EPA 7

8 

### Afternoon Session: 9 

### CAROL KEMPER, Deputy Director, Region 4 Air, 10

### Pesticides, and Toxics Management Division, EPA 11 

### COLIN BOSWELL, Office of Air Quality Planning 12

### and Standards, EPA 13 

### DR. KEN MITCHELL, Region 4 Clean Power Plan, EPA 14

15 

### Evening Session: 16 

### JEANANNE GETTLE, Deputy Director of Air 17

### Pesticides and Toxics Management Division, EPA 18 

### CAROL KEMPER, Deputy Director, Region 4 Air, 19

### Pesticides, and Toxics Management Division, EPA 20 

### JAN CORDALOU [ph], Office of Air Quality Planning 21

### and Standards, EPA 223

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### Morning Session 3 

### MARK WOODALL, Sierra Club 18 4


### ANGELINE GARDNER 25 5 

### ERICA DAVIS, Sierra Club 28 6 

### CHRIS LUNGHINO, Sierra Club Beyond Coal 7 

### Campaign 32 8 

### DANIEL JORANKO, United Methodist Nashville 9 

### District, Creation Care Ministries 36 10 

### SCOTT DANBURY, Sierra Club 38 11 

### KEMMER ANDERSON, Cherokee Sierra Club 42 12


### CYNTHIA HERNANDEZ 43 13


### DR. MARY HEADRICK 45 14 

### DR. MARILYN BROWN, Georgia Institute of 15

### Technology 50 16 

### KATE ANTHONY, Sierra Club 54 17 

### SANDRA KURTZ 56 18 

### JOSH DOBIE [ph] 62 19 

### ANNE BLAIR, Southern Alliance For 20

### Clean Energy 66 21 

### MARILYN EVANS, National People's Action 72 224

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1


### PAGE 2 

### Morning Session (continued) 3 

### ROY DAVIS, Committees United for Action 74 4


### BRAXTON BRADLEY 81 5 

### LINDSEY PACE, Moms Clean Air Force 85 6 

### COLLEEN KIERNAN, Sierra Club, Georgia Chapter 89 7 

### GINNY KINCER, Tennessee Solar Solutions 95 8 

### SUZANNE SMITHERMAN 100 9 

### AARON PARDIEU, Kentuckians For The 10


### Commonwealth 103 11 

### LANCE BROWN, PACE 109 12 

### KATHERINE MULLER, Inviro Design and 13

### Consulting 112 14 

### LISA RAYNOR, Mothers and Others for 15

### Clean Air 116 16


### ROGER BUERKI 120 17 

### JAMES RUST, Heartland Institute 123 18 

### ANNE MELLINGER-BIRDSONG, Mothers and Others 19

### For Clean Air 128 20 

### HILARY MERLIN, Mothers and Others For 21

### Clean Air 132 225

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1


### PAGE 2 

### Morning Session (continued) 3 

### GERALD DURLEY, Interfaith Power and Light 135 4


### DANIEL BLACKMAN 139 5 

### PATRICK CAGLE, JobKeeper Alliance 144 6

7 

### Afternoon Session 8 

### DR. ROBY GREENWALD, School of Public Health, 9 

### Georgia State University 158 10 

### LAURA SEYDEL, Mothers and Others for 11

### Clean Air 162 12 

### KATY CYWILKO, Student 166 13 

### HARPER DODSON, Student 167 14 

### WOODY BARTLETT, Georgia Interfaith Power 15

### and Light 168 16 

### JENNETTE GAYER, Environment Georgia 172 17 

### BENITA DODD, Georgia Public Policy Foundation 177 18 

### ELEANOR HAND, Georgia Sierra Club 182 19 

### TAYLOR PRINCE, Chemical engineer, Statewide 20

### Organizing for Community Empowerment 187 21 

### AMY KELLY, Appalachian Voices 190 226

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1


### PAGE 2 

### Afternoon Session (continued) 3 

### BRUCE BLOHM, GreenSpace.org, St. Paul's 4 

### Episcopal Church, South Chickamauga 5 

### Creek Greenway Alliance 193 6 

### JACQUELIN CARTER, Student 196 7 

### DOUG LEGO, MEAG Power 197 8 

### COLLEEN McLOUGHLIN, Environment Georgia 202 9 

### LAUREN REEF, Student 206 10 

### KATE McGREGOR MOSLEY, Georgia Interfaith 11

### Power and Light 208 12 

### DOUG MIELL, Georgia Chamber of Commerce 213 13 

### MARIN ANGELES GUTIERREZ, presenting for 14

### Karen Graimey, Georgia Sierra Club 218 15 

### REV. WILLIAM EDWARD FLIPPIN, JR., Emmanuel 16

### Lutheran Church, NAACP 222 17 

### PAUL GALETTI, Student 225 18 

### RODNEY J. RUSSELL, American Association of 19

### Blacks in Energy, Lambda Chapter 227 20 

### LEANNE TOWNSEND 231 21 

### DJUAN COLEON, Project Renewable Energy 232 227

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1


### PAGE 2 

### Afternoon Session (continued) 3 

### MARK BERRY, Southern Company 236 4 

### SAM COLLIER, Investor, Parent, and 5 

### Georgia Power Shareholder 242 6


### JOSHUA HANTHORN 245 7 

### NINA DUTTON, Georgia Sierra Club 249 8

9 

### Evening Session 10 

### BOB JAMES, Citizens Climate Lobby 262 11 

### DEREK JAWORSKI 267 12 

### FLANNERY KECK, Citizens Climate Lobby 272 13 

### RICHARD HERTZBERG, Emory University 277 14 

### KEVIN KELLY, Southface Energy Institute 282 15


### DAREL PREBLE 289 16

17

18

19

20

21

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1 

### MS. HEARD: Good morning. 2 

### [Chorus of good mornings.] 3 

### MS. HEARD: Thank you for coming to 4 

### today's hearing. I am Anne Heard, the Deputy 5 

### Regional Administrator for EPA Region 4, which 6 

### covers eight states and six tribal nations. I 7 

### want to welcome you to today's hearing and to 8 

### thank you for your comments on the EPA's proposed 9 

### federal plan and model rules to reduce carbon 10 

### pollution from existing power plants, our 11 

### nation's largest source of carbon pollution. 12

### The proposed federal plan and model rules 13 

### will help the EPA and states to implement the 14 

### Clean Power Plan. Today's hearing reflects 15 

### another step in our commitment to collect and 16 

### evaluate meaningful input as we develop 17 

### practical, flexible, and effective measures to 18 

### address climate impact. These impacts are 19 

### already being felt and posing risks to our 20 

### environment, our economy, and our community here 21 

### in Region 4. 229

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### The EPA collected and evaluated more than 1 

### 4 million comments in finalizing the Clean Power 2 

### Plan. This outreach included two public events 3 

### here in our Atlanta office, one listening session 4 

### prior to the development of the Clean Power Plan, 5 

### and one public hearing held during the public 6 

### comment period for the proposed Clean Power Plan. 7 

### The final Clean Power Plan for Existing 8 

### Power Plants was published in the Federal 9 

### Register on October 23, 2015, and becomes 10 

### effective on December 22, 2015. The final 11 

### rulemaking was enriched by all the public 12 

### comments that EPA received. 13

### We are here today to listen to your 14 

### comments on the Proposed federal plan and model 15 

### trading rules that states can use to implement 16 

### the Clean Power Plan. Specifically, today's 17 

### hearing provide an opportunity to provide the 18 

### agency with input as we develop a path forward to 19 

### implementing the Clean Power Plan, through a 20 

### framework and set of model rules intended for 21 

### states that choose to not develop their own plan. 2210

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### As such, we welcome your interests and your 1 

### comments and will evaluate them carefully as we 2 

### finalize the federal plan and the model trading 3 

### rules, and we expect great feedback, not just 4 

### here, but at the three other hearings we are 5 

### holding across the country, and also through the 6 

### public comment period that is open through 7 

### January 21, 2016. These hearings offer an 8 

### opportunity for people to speak to the EPA and 9 

### their government directly. The chair, Jeananne 10 

### Gettle, for this session of the public hearing, 11 

### will provide some more information on the 12 

### proposal and how the hearing will be conducted. 13

### Again, thank you for being here and for 14 

### taking your time to come and comment. And now 15 

### I'll turn it over to Jeananne. 16

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Anne. Good 17 

### morning. My name is Jeananne Gettle, and I am 18 

### the chair of today's public hearing. Thank you 19 

### for coming today. Joining me on the panel is 20 

### Anne Heard, who you've already met, our Deputy 21 

### Regional Administrator here in Region 4, and 2211

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### Colin Boswell from the Office of Air Quality 1 

### Planning and Standards. We also have a court 2 

### reporter in the room today and she will be 3 

### transcribing the hearing as we proceed. 4 

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 5 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 6 

### or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 7 

### greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing carbon 8 

### pollution from power plants is an essential step 9 

### in lessening the impacts of climate change and 10 

### providing a more certain future for our 11 

### environment, our health, and future generations. 12

### We are here today to listen to your 13 

### comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 14 

### model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 15 

### Existing Power Plants. 16

### On October 23, 2015, the Environmental 17 

### Protection Agency published, in the Federal 18 

### Register, its proposed federal plan to implement 19 

### emission guidelines for power plants under 20 

### Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 21 

### 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 2212

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### effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 1 

### affected power plants that began construction on 2 

### or before January 8, 2014. 3 

### The federal plan and model trading rules 4 

### demonstrate a readily available path forward for 5 

### Clean Power Plan implementation, and presents 6 

### flexible, affordable implementation options for 7 

### states. The model rules provide a cost-effective 8 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 9 

### the EPA and make it easy for states and power 10 

### plants to use emissions trading. It does the 11 

### heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 12 

### model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 13 

### implement the federal plan in any state that does 14 

### not submit an approvable plan. 15

### This proposal includes four discrete 16 

### proposed actions: (1) a rate-based federal plan 17 

### for each state with affected EGUs; (2) a mass18 

### based federal plan for each state with affected 19 

### EGUs; (3) a rate-based model trading rule for 20 

### potential use by any state; and (4) a mass-based 21 

### model trading rule for potential use by any 2213

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### state. 1 

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 2 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 3 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 4 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 5 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 6 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 7 

### 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 8 

### in the emission guidelines. 9 

### In those states where a federal plan may 10 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 11 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 12 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 13 

### would not require additional control requirements 14 

### or impose additional costs. Even where a federal 15 

### plan is put in place for a particular state, that 16 

### state will still be able to submit a plan which, 17 

### if approved, will allow the state and its sources 18 

### to exit the federal plan. 19

### States may take delegation of 20 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 21 

### order to become the primary implementers, or 2214

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### submit partial state plans in order to take over 1 

### the implementation of a portion of the federal 2 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 3 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 4 

### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 5 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 6 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 7 

### for those states that are developing their own 8 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 9 

### the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 10 

### in the summer of 2016. A state program that 11 

### adheres to the model trading rule provisions 12 

### specified in this rulemaking, when final, would 13 

### be presumptively approvable. 14

### There are stand-alone portions of the 15 

### model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 16 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 17 

### emission rate credits that would be approvable 18 

### even if a state adopted an approach that differs 19 

### in other respects from the model rule. 20

### In addition, the proposal contains a 21 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 2215

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### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 1 

### affected EGUs located in Indian country. CO2 2 

### emission performance rates for these facilities 3 

### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. Also in 4 

### the proposal is information on how the EPA will 5 

### reach out to communities throughout the comment 6 

### period and an overview of the actions that EPA is 7 

### taking to ensure that vulnerable communities are 8 

### not being disproportionately impacted by this 9 

### rulemaking. 10

### If you would like more details on the 11 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 12 

### the registration desk. 13

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 14 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 15 

### that will help to make today's hearing run 16 

### smoothly. First, please be sure you've checked 17 

### in at the registration desk, even if you are not 18 

### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 19 

### speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 20 

### you are here, please stop at the registration 21 

### desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 2216

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### arrived. 1 

### I will call speakers up in pairs. When 2 

### your name is called, please come to the speakers' 3 

### table, right here at the front of the room. When 4 

### I call on you to speak, please start with your 5 

### name, and spell it for the court reporter. 6 

### Please spell your first and last names. Your 7 

### comments will be transcribed and included in the 8 

### record of comments on the proposed rule. If you 9 

### have written testimony, please hand it to the 10 

### court reporter as you exit the table. 11

### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 12 

### comments. We have a timer light to help you know 13 

### how much time you have left to speak. When the 14 

### light turns from green to yellow, that means you 15 

### have 1 minute remaining. When it turns red, 16 

### that's a signal that your 5 minutes have expired, 17 

### and it is time to stop. When you are finished 18 

### speaking, please remain at the table until the 19 

### person next to you has completed his or her 20 

### testimony. 21

### We are here to listen to you today. 2217

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### However, a panel member may ask questions to 1 

### clarify your comments. 2 

### I will then call up the next set of 3 

### speakers, and so on, throughout the morning. 4 

### I've already said this, but if you've brought a 5 

### copy of your written testimony, please provide it 6 

### to the court reporter. 7 

### We also have comment cards available at 8 

### the registration desk. If you would like to 9 

### submit additional written comments today, please 10 

### ask for one of the comment cards. If you want to 11 

### comment in writing later, stop by the materials 12 

### table near the registration desk and pick up a 13 

### copy of the instructions for submitting written 14 

### comments. Comments must be received by January 15 

### 21, 2016. That's January 21, 2016. 16

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 17 

### much consideration to comments we receive in 18 

### writing as we do to comments we receive at public 19 

### hearings like this one. So if you have more 20 

### comments that you would like to provided the EPA, 21 

### please submit them by the comment period 2218

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### deadline. Your comments will be reviewed. 1 

### If you have any questions during the day, 2 

### please see the staff at the registration desk, 3 

### and someone will assist you. 4 

### Thank you again for taking the time today 5 

### to share your comments on EPA's proposal. Let's 6 

### get started. 7 

### Our first speaker is Mark Woodall. 8 

### MR. WOODALL: Is this on, or do I need to 9



### -- 10

### MS. GETTLE: If you'll push the button 11 

### and you'll see a little red light. 12

### MR. WOODALL: I think I'm good. Good 13 

### morning. My name is Mark Woodall. That's 14 

### M-a-r-k W-o-o-d-a-l-l. I'm the Legislative 15 

### Chairman of the Sierra Club here in Georgia, and 16 

### on behalf of our 50,000 members and supporters 17 

### I'd like to welcome the EPA back to Atlanta. We 18 

### think Atlanta is a very appropriate place to have 19 

### these hearings on the Clean Power Plan. Just 20 

### down the road here is Georgia Power's Plant 21 

### Scherer, which is the largest source of carbon 2219

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### pollution in the United States, and it was here 1 

### in Atlanta, 151 years ago, that the issue of 2 

### state sovereignty and state's rights was settled 3


### at the Battle of Atlanta. It was the federal 4 

### side that won. 5 

### We certainly want to thank the EPA for 6 

### taking action to stop catastrophic climate 7 

### change. As Senator Shaheen said during the 8 

### Senate debates this week, this is a reality that 9 

### must be addressed. I apologize for those Georgia 10 

### elected officials that want to deny reality. I 11 

### take it as a very good sign that I do not see any 12 

### elected officials here to protest this plan, so 13 

### maybe we're making progress with the recent king 14 

### tides that flooded the only road to Tybee Island 15 

### recently. That's the first time that's happened 16 

### without a hurricane. It's becoming clear that 17 

### things are changing here in Georgia. 18

### I apologize for two United States 19 

### Senators who voted in favor of the resolution of 20 

### disapproval for the Clean Power Plan, but there 21 

### might be climate justice on the way. Senator 2220

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### David Perdue lives in the gated community of Sea 1 

### Island, so his house is likely going to be one of 2 

### the first ones under water unless the U.S. Senate 3 

### also disapproves of the laws of physics and the 4 

### laws of chemistry. 5 

### I apologize for Attorney General Sam 6 

### Olens for suing the EPA over this plan. This 7 

### constitutes maybe the height of the ingratitude. 8 

### As you probably know, the draft approval called 9 

### for a reduction in Georgia of 44.4 percent by 10 

### 2030. After the Georgia EPD and Southern Company 11 

### and everybody else commented on that, the EPA 12 

### basically gave Georgia everything they wanted in 13 

### the way of new units under construction, Global 3 14 

### and 4. So for Georgia to sue after they got 15 

### everything they wanted is particularly 16 

### disgraceful. 17

### As a shareholder in the Southern Company, 18 

### I apologize for the notice of intent to sue from 19 

### Gulf Power, Mississippi Power, Alabama Power, and 20 

### Georgia Power. Hopefully, at some point, 21 

### Southern Company will just see how wrong they 2221

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### are. 1 

### I apologize for the $180,000 that Gulf 2 

### Power sent to Florida to kill solar freedom 3 

### ballot initiative in Florida. 4 

### But things do change quickly around here. 5 

### It was just 5 years ago, down the street here, 6 

### down Martin Luther King, that Georgia Power told 7 

### folks at the Georgia Capitol that solar power 8 

### would not work in Georgia because it was too 9 

### humid. Yet, by the end of next year, by the end 10 

### of 2016, the state of Georgia will have over 11 

### 1,000 megawatts of solar power installed, so we 12 

### thank the Georgia PSC, Southern Company, and even 13 

### the EMCs for their work on that. 14

### One of the installations going up right 15 

### now is the 131-megawatt solar project, which is 16 

### going to be purchased by Cobb EMC, Sawnee EMC, 17 

### and Flint Energy. So we no longer have to be 18 

### ashamed in Georgia that Franklin D. Roosevelt 19 

### created the REA and the co-ops right here. 20

### As far as the federal rule in Georgia and 21 

### the rest of the south, I don't think you're going 2222

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### to have to go to the trouble of doing anything 1 

### about that, because in Georgia the policy has 2 

### been -- and I think will be in other states 3 

### surrounding -- to get delegation on the federal 4 

### environmental programs just as quickly as we can, 5 

### and to make sure we hold on to them. While we 6 

### understand how delegation works, whenever we go 7 

### to any meeting where the EPA is present we have 8 

### to point out that after 60 years we have enough 9 

### of the stench and discoloration of the Altamaha 10 

### River by Rayonier. We can't understand how 11 

### that's possible under the Clean Water Act, so 12 

### you'll be hearing more about that. 13

### We were pleased to see that Region 4 14 

### wrote a letter dated October 30th to the state of 15 

### North Carolina, threatening loss of delegation 16 

### for the lack of standing for citizens' group. So 17 

### I will just say, in regards to Clean Power Plan 18 

### and all the other delegated programs, that it's 19 

### going to be important that you stay alert. 20

### As far as where we're going here, we 21 

### submitted a letter back in October of -- let's 2223

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### see -- October 7, 2014, to the EPD, the PSD, and 1 

### pointed out that we could get to the stiff [ph] 2 

### goal of 44 percent. We could get there 100 3 

### percent by retiring old coal units, inefficient 4 

### coal units, and adding energy efficiency, solar 5 

### power, and wind power. So the current rule is 6 

### not much of a lift for Georgia. We'd like to see 7 

### more progress faster, but we are happy that the 8


### EPA has moved forward and we look forward to 9 

### progress, and we would just urge you to stay the 10 

### course and address climate change. 11

### The Sierra Club will be submitting more 12 

### detailed comments about trading and all those 13 

### other things by the end of the comment period. 14

### MS. HEARD: Thank you, Mr. Woodall. Do 15 

### you have any questions to the panel? 16


### MR. WOODALL: I do. 17

### MS. HEARD: Thank you. 18

### We are going to pause right now because 19 

### we don't have any additional speakers at this 20 

### time. We have been made aware that MARTA was 21 

### shut down for a period of time this morning, and 2224

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### we believe that may have delayed some of the 1 

### participants in arriving, so as soon as we have 2 

### additional speakers we will call the session back 3 

### into -- we will come back into session and 4 

### continue with speakers. 5 

### [Audio break.] 6 

### MS. GETTLE: [In progress.] -- to start 7 

### again, to proceed with the hearing. I just 8 

### wanted to review, just quickly, a couple of 9 

### procedures that we're using since we have so many 10 

### people who have joined us. When it is your turn 11 

### to speak I will call two speakers to the front of 12 

### the room, ask you to have a seat at this table 13 

### here. Each speaker will have 5 minutes to make 14 

### their presentation. When you start, please state 15 

### your name and then spell both your first and last 16 

### name for the court reporter. 17

### We also have a timer. When the timer 18 

### goes from green to yellow you have 1 minute 19 

### remaining. When the timer goes to red, your time 20 

### is up and we would ask you to conclude your 21 

### remarks at that point in time. 2225

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### So we are ready to proceed. Yes, and 1 

### please stay seated until both speakers have 2 

### completed their presentation, and then you can 3 

### leave the table after that. Also, if you have a 4 

### written presentation, please provide that to the 5 

### court reporter as you exit the table. 6 

### The next two speakers are Angeline 7 

### Gardner and Erica Davis. 8 

### Are you Angeline or Erica? 9 

### MS. GARDNER: I'm Angeline. 10

### MS. GETTLE: Okay. Do you want to keep 11 

### this until -- 12

### MS. GARDNER: Oh, I thought you wanted 13 

### it. 14

### MS. GETTLE: Okay. We can give it to the 15 

### court reporter. 16

### Ms. Gardner, if you will -- you can sit 17 

### down, and if you look in front of you, if you 18 

### will punch the green button, the red light should 19 

### come on, on your microphone. And you can proceed 20 

### when you are ready. 21

### MS. GARDNER: Hello. I'm Angeline 2226

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### Gardner. A-n-g-e-l-i-n-e, Gardner, 1 

### G-a-r-d-n-e-r, from Chattanooga, Tennessee. In 2 

### the early '60s, my parents bought land on a ridge 3 

### in Chattanooga, Tennessee, specifically because 4 

### of the clear, lovely view of both Signal and 5 

### Lookout Mountains. By 1969, eating dinner out on 6 

### the deck, we could only see the mountain on 7 

### Sundays, when the foundries and plants were 8 

### closed. All of you probably know it was in early 9 

### 1969 when Chattanooga was named the most polluted 10 

### city in the country, one year before the 11 

### formation of the EPA. Now Chattanooga is widely 12 

### recognized for its environmental progress. 13

### The father of solar energy, Dr. Erich 14 

### Farber, told me during an interview for Florida 15 

### Trend magazine in the '70s he first saw solar as 16 

### a viable source of energy in the '30s, when he 17 

### was still a high school student. When he joined 18 

### the staff of University of Florida, Dr. Farber 19 

### developed the Solar Energy Lab, where he showed 20 

### me a solar-powered water heater, stove, 21 

### refrigerator, air conditioner, sewer treatment 2227

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### plant, even a solar-powered car. Dr. Farber 1 

### explained that almost any place on Earth where 2 

### people live, odds are there is enough sunshine to 3 

### run these same solar-powered equipment. 4 

### Forty-five years later, we are seeing the 5 

### first partially solar-powered auto coming out on 6 

### the market, and more, though not nearly enough 7 

### buildings with solar panels. What impressed me 8 

### most was an equation Dr. Farber thought of when 9 

### he was in high school. He made it sound simple. 10 

### The countries which control the most energy, and 11 

### use it, are that progress the fastest. He also 12 

### explained that the power providing this dominance 13 

### came mostly from fossil fuels -- gas, coal, and 14 

### oil -- which, without a doubt, to Dr. Farber, at 15 

### least, would one day be gone. 16

### Here I am, seven decades later, asking 17 

### you to make solar energy the priority for the 18


### Clean Power Plan. 19

### Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. 20

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Ms. Gardner. 21 

### Panel, do you have any questions for Ms. Gardner? 2228

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### [No audible response.] 1 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Ms. Davis? 2 

### MS. DAVIS: First of all, thank you so 3 

### much for the opportunity to testify in favor of 4 

### the strong Clean Power Plan. My name is Erica 5 

### Davis, E-r-i-c-a D-a-v-i-s, and I'm here as a 6 

### member of the Sierra Club. 7 

### I grew up in a Nashville suburb and now 8 

### live in Knoxville as a student at the University 9 

### of Tennessee, and while I was in Nashville I 10 

### experienced the worst flood the city had ever 11 

### seen, shattering rainfall records and killing 11 12 

### of my neighbors, most of them in four 13 

### neighborhoods in the area. In the aftermath, we 14 

### had to band together to clean up, recover, and 15 

### heal the wounds, and what's really devastating to 16 

### me is to think that an extreme weather like the 17 

### flood of 2010, in Nashville and the surrounding 18 

### areas, those events will only become more 19 

### frequent in the face of global climate change, a 20 

### leading cause of which is emissions from fossil 21 

### fuel-fired power plants. 2229

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### I moved to Knoxville for college and fell 1 

### in love with the Appalachian Mountains. I don't 2 

### know if you've been to the Smoky Mountain Park -- 3 

### it's beautiful, especially this time of year. 4 

### Unfortunately, those mountains are knocked down 5 

### like dominoes by drag lines and dynamite, and 6 

### it's all for the purpose of providing a dirty 7 

### source of fuel. It's like a power plant. And 8 

### the plant, they constantly release harmful toxins 9 

### and pollutants into the air that we all breathe. 10

### I've spent time with some of the people 11 

### in those communities and they're the most hard12 

### working, humbling, and beautiful people that I've 13 

### ever had an opportunity to meet. Unfortunately, 14 

### the consequences of extraction and combustion 15 

### don't have any discretion. One woman I met 16 

### showed me around her home, that she built 17 

### herself, which was really inspiring. A couple 18 

### hundred yards away, though, was a new mining 19 

### site, and I listened to her story about explosive 20 

### blasts she could hear throughout the night. She 21 

### is sick and suffering from severe respiratory 2230

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### issues and had trouble even telling me her story. 1 

### She wished for nothing more than to support 2 

### herself with food from a garden that she planted, 3 

### but the problem was she was unable to trust the 4 

### groundwater because of the mining operations next 5 

### door and their toxic runoff. 6 

### So this is what the current power next to 7 

### it causes, unapologetically, and it's what it 8 

### looks like on the ground to the people in the 9 

### community, and it's wrong, but the EPA finally 10 

### has a chance to make that right. So that's 11 

### something that we're really excited about. 12

### By 2030, the Clean Power Plan would cut 13 

### carbon pollution from the power sector by nearly 14 

### a third, including additional reductions from 15 

### other pollutants, which would mean significant 16 

### health benefits for the American people as a 17 

### whole, and better lives for the people in our 18 

### resource extraction frontiers. 19

### A recent Harvard University study 20 

### recently found that Tennessee, in particular, 21 

### would experience significant public health gains 2231

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### from implementing the Clean Power Plan through 1 

### avoided premature death, hospitalization, and 2 

### non-fatal heart attack. And it should come as no 3 

### surprise, then, that the vast majority of 4 

### Tennesseans support the plan. 5 

### I was also encourage the provision to 6 

### incentivize early action on renewable power and 7 

### to bring energy efficiency to the low-income 8 

### neighborhoods, like the ones in Appalachia. We 9 

### can't wait any longer. Especially as a college 10 

### student, I feel anxious about the energy future 11 

### my generation will be faced with if proper 12 

### measures aren't taken immediately to ensure a 13 

### just and sustainable tomorrow for us all. 14

### Thank you. 15

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Panel, do you 16 

### have any questions? 17

### MS. HEARD: Do you happen to have a copy 18 

### of the Harvard University study you referred to? 19

### MS. DAVIS: I have a link to it. Do you 20 

### want me to get that to you? 21

### MS. HEARD: Yes. To the court reporter. 2232

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### MS. DAVIS: Yes, ma'am. 1 

### MS. HEARD: Thank you. 2 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Ms. Davis. 3 

### Our next two speakers are Chris Lunghino 4


### and Dan Joranko. 5 

### MS. LUNGHINO: Good morning. My name is 6 

### Chris Ann Lunghino, spelled C-h-r-i-s -- 7 

### MS. GETTLE: I don't think your mic is 8 

### on. If you push the green button there should be 9 

### a red light. 10

### MS. LUNGHINO: All right. Now I've got 11 

### it. My name is Chris Lunghino, C-h-r-i-s 12 

### L-u-n like Nancy - g-h-i-n like Nancy - o. 13

### Good morning. I'm the organizing 14 

### representative for the Sierra Club Beyond Coal 15 

### Campaign, and I live in Nashville, Tennessee. 16 

### Thank you so much for this opportunity to comment 17 

### this morning. 18


### I have three wonderful sons. Two of them 19 

### suffer from asthma. When my oldest son, Brent, 20 

### was 3 years old he suffered his first really 21 

### serious asthma episode. He almost died. He 2233

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### spent 5 days in the hospital in an oxygen tent. 1 

### I suffered with him every single minute. That 2 

### was 1992. Since then, the incidence of childhood 3 

### asthma has increased greatly. 4 

### My mission in life, both professionally 5 

### and personally, is to create a culture that is 6 

### committed to sustainability, so that other 7 

### children don't have to suffer like my children 8 

### did, and other parents don't have to suffer like 9 

### I did. Climate action is about love. 10

### That is why I'm here today, to speak in 11 

### support of EPA's Clean Power Plan and comment on 12 

### the recently proposed federal plan and the Clean 13 

### Energy Incentive Plan. I am extremely grateful 14 

### for the leadership that EPA and President Obama 15 

### are providing on climate action through the Clean 16


### Power Plan. 17

### I'm going to focus my comments this 18 

### morning on the opportunities the Clean Power Plan 19 

### can provide for low-income communities and 20 

### communities of color, which are 21 

### disproportionately impacted by pollution and 2234

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### climate change. African American children have 1 

### the highest rate of asthma in America. In 2 

### Tennessee, they are twice as likely to suffer 3 

### from asthma as white, non-Hispanic kids. For 4 

### adults, asthma is one of the leading causes of 5 

### work absenteeism and loss of productivity. Poor 6 

### health, with its hospital costs and medical 7 

### bills, get expensive. And African Americans are 8 

### significantly more likely to die from asthma than 9 

### the majority of the U.S. population. 10

### The federal plan and the Clean Energy 11 

### Incentive Plan present an unprecedented 12 

### opportunity to address the environmental 13 

### inequities in the most impacted communities. 14 

### These plans can also help alleviate long-standing 15 

### economic and social problems, including 16 

### unemployment, dis-investment, violence, and 17 

### blight. In 2015, clean energy businesses in 18 

### Tennessee support over 44,000 workers at over 19 

### 2,500 businesses. The Clean Power Plan can help 20 

### grow those numbers and ensure that impacted 21 

### communities in our state are benefitting. 2235

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### The federal plan should take full 1 

### advantage of this opportunity to address 2 

### environmental injustice by adopting policies that 3 

### make long-term investments in communities 4 

### disproportionately burdened by pollution and 5 

### economic stress. The federal plan should act not 6 

### only as a backstop for non-compliant states but 7 

### should provide a model for all states on how this 8 

### plan can minimize the pain and maximize the gain 9 

### for impacted communities. 10

### I am pleased that EPA has included the 11 

### full Clean Energy Incentive Plan in the proposed 12 

### federal plan. I recommend, however, that the EPA 13 

### require non-compliant federal plan states to 14 

### participate in the Clean Energy Incentive Plan 15 

### rather than allowing states to opt out. Equity 16 

### must be at the center of policies addressing 17 

### climate change. The federal plan should include 18 

### policy choices and implementation approaches that 19 

### specifically take equity into account. This is 20 

### especially important in the allocation of limited 21 

### resources such as pollution allowance. No more 2236

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### than 15 percent of allowances should be 1 

### giveaways, and please resist giving weight of 2 

### allowances to the most polluting sources. 3 

### Communities of color and communities of low 4 

### incomes must receive net environmental and 5 

### economic benefits from pollution allowances. 6 

### The allowances created, and any revenues 7 

### generated by the implementation of the Clean 8


### Power Plan should be used to ensure 9 

### disproportionately impacted communities receive 10 

### net economic and environmental benefits. 11 

### Policies or programs within the federal plan, in 12 

### addition to any revenues committed to our general 13 

### programs should maximize environmental, social, 14 

### and economic benefits in impacted communities. 15

### Thank you again for offering this 16 

### opportunity to comment. 17

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 18

### MR. JORANKO: My name is Dan Joranko, 19 

### D-a-n-i-e-l, Daniel, J-o-r-a-n-k-o, and I'm staff 20 

### coordinator of the United Methodist Nashville 21 

### District Creation Care Ministries. I'm also 2237

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### steering committee member of Tennessee Interfaith 1 

### Power and Light, a statewide network of faith 2 

### groups that spiritually responds to the moral 3 

### challenges of climate change. I teach at 4 

### Vanderbilt Divinity School. 5 

### Climate change is a defining challenge of 6 

### our generation. If we do not act to mitigate the 7 

### impact of carbon in our atmosphere, our children 8 

### and the children around the world will suffer 9 

### greatly. We will see famine, refugees, and the 10 

### breakdown of ecosystems on which we all depend. 11

### The good news for today is that you at 12 

### the EPA are now regulating carbon as a pollutant. 13 

### We now have a mechanism to mitigate our impact. 14 

### We also have mechanisms to positively impact low15 

### income communities and all these communities 16 

### should be included in the plan. 17

### United Methodist social principles teach 18 

### that it is our duty to care for and protect 19 

### creation. We have the duty to respect the 20 

### natural systems on which we all depend and to 21 

### steward our impacts so that we do not cause 2238

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### damage and destruction but instead repair and 1 

### restore. We also believe that government has an 2 

### appropriate role to play in this stewardship. 3 

### Good and thoughtful governance is essentially to 4 

### protecting the common good. 5 

### We live in a time where public servants 6 

### are too often maligned, so my word for today is 7 

### keep up the good work, stay the course, and be 8 

### open to what science, strong ethical principles, 9 

### and good policy would take us. 10

### Thank you. 11

### MS. HEARD: Thank you. 12

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. The next 13 

### two speakers are Scott Danbury and Kemmer 14


### Anderson. 15

### MR. DANBURY: Thank you for having me. 16 

### Scott Danbury. The last name is spelled 17 

### D-a-n-b-u-r-y, from Memphis, Tennessee. I work 18 

### with the Sierra Club in Tennessee as a 19 

### conservation program coordinator. 20

### I first became aware of the problem of 21 

### climate change in 1988, while working as a forest 2239

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### protection activist while in school in 1 

### California, and we went to see Dr. James Hansen 2 

### give a lecture on climate change. We were 3 

### interested in him from the point of view of the 4 

### impacts of deforestation around the world and 5 

### what impact that would have on climate change and 6 

### what impact it would have relative to removing 7 

### the biomass sink that we have for carbon found in 8


### forests. 9 

### Since then I've worked with many 10 

### organizations to address the problem and I really 11 

### applaud the EPA for now finally bringing this 12 

### full circle, recognizing the direness of the 13 

### problem that we face and taking action it. 14

### That said, I do have a couple of 15 

### suggestions about how we can make this plan a 16 

### little bit better. One is do not recognize 17 

### biomass fuel stocks as being clean energy. It's 18 

### been a mistake that's been made in Europe that's 19 

### led to deforestation across vast areas of our 20 

### south Gulf forests in the United States. In 21 

### South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida we're seeing 2240

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### moves of industry come up into the Tennessee 1 

### Valley. We kept them out of our valley when they 2 

### came with chip mills for pulp and paper 3 

### production and we don't want to have to have that 4 

### fight again over biomass energy stocks. 5 

### We do recognize that in some cases 6 

### communities have made investments in power 7 

### generation using gasification systems, but we 8 

### also question those because to keep them 9 

### sustainable, oftentimes the refuse or garbage 10 

### source that they would be relying on runs out and 11 

### then they turn to virgin forests and cutting and 12 

### chipping to feed themselves. 13

### I really applaud -- and this is grand 14 

### surprise, almost like a birthday present to all 15 

### of us -- when you announced the incentives that 16 

### you were going to put in place for the Clean 17 

### Energy Incentives Program. I'm from Memphis, 18 

### from a community where we have a 27 percent 19 

### poverty rate right now. We luckily made a 20 

### decision to, in 2018, shut down the coal-burning 21 

### power plant we had there that was contributing to 2241

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### our title as "the asthma capital of the United 1 

### States," and we'd like to get rid of that title. 2


### That's not the number one that we want. And 3 

### we're replacing it with a natural gas plant. 4 

### We're very concerned that that is going 5 

### to leave our most economically vulnerable 6 

### communities most vulnerable whenever we see price 7 

### spikes in natural gas pricing. We're going to 8 

### now be getting our electricity and our hot water 9 

### and our home heating all from the same fuel 10 

### source. So the investments that we can make in 11 

### energy efficiency and distributed power 12 

### generation within our lower-income communities is 13 

### going to help buffer them from the impacts of 14 

### those potential price spikes, or easily foreseen 15 

### price spikes, and we really appreciate you 16 

### putting that plan in. 17

### Again, just to kind of impart, don't have 18 

### biomass be clean and put as much money as you can 19 

### into our lower-income communities. 20

### Thank you. 21

### MS. HEARD: Thank you. Any questions? 2242

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### [No audible response.] 1


### MS. HEARD: Mr. Anderson. 2


### MR. ANDERSON: I'm Kemmer Anderson from 3 

### Chattanooga, Tennessee. I'm with the Cherokee 4 

### Sierra Club. I still teach, and have been for 38 5 

### years, at McCallie School teaching English in 6 

### Chattanooga. 7 

### Actually, I first learned about energy 8 

### conservation while serving in the United States 9 

### Army in Korea in 1969. In 1971, in the old city 10 

### of Jerusalem, the Palestinians taught me a 11 

### parable. There's two kinds of pilgrims -- one 12 

### who comes searching for God, the other who comes 13 

### searching for oil. Which are you? 14

### From a sonnet sequence entitled "In Time 15 

### of War," W. H. Auden writes, "And like a 16 

### conscience the sun ruled his days." 17

### We have a conscience not to worship wind 18 

### and sun as mythological beings in the Homeric 19 

### epics I teach, but to harness the gifts, as 20 

### Jefferson reminds us, the gifts of Nature's God. 21 

### We need a declaration of natural energy that 2243

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### potentially uses wind, sun, and water, 1 

### hydropower, geothermal, to power our 2 

### neighborhoods. The Clean Air Act is an act of 3 

### conscience. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MS. HEARD: Thank you, Mr. Anderson. 6 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. Our next 7 

### speakers are Cynthia Hernandez and Dr. Mary 8 

### Headrick. 9 

### Push the green button and you should see 10 

### a red light. Thank you. 11

### MS. HERNANDEZ: Hi. My name is Cynthia 12 

### Hernandez. That's spelled C-y-n-t-h-i-a, 13 

### Hernandez, H-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z. 14 

### I've traveled today 275 miles from Nashville, 15 

### Tennessee to share my support for the Clean Power 16 

### Plan, and I want to thank you for holding this 17 

### hearing and allowing me and the public to weigh 18 

### in on this historic proposal. I also want to 19 

### thank the government for creating the EPA, who 20 

### does a good job providing significant efforts to 21 

### protect the health of all Americans. 2244

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### In our capitalistic society, we need this 1 

### organization to set regulations on big polluters. 2 

### Policies should be made, taking into account what 3 

### is best for the people and the public health 4 

### before profit and big corporations. 5 

### I felt the need to make this trip on 6 

### behalf of my three children. It is my 7 

### responsibility to be a voice for them and do 8 

### whatever I can to protect their future, as well 9 

### as the voiceless children all over the world, and 10 

### the people. I have recently discovered what is 11 

### most important. I love life, I love clean air, I 12 

### love clean water, I love my children, and like 13 

### most other moms, that's what's most important, is 14 

### to take care of my children, providing a better 15


### future. 16

### This is why I decided to go back to 17 

### school and study environmental science. I've 18 

### learned a lot in my studies. Coal technology is 19 

### over 300 years old, and in the last 50 years or 20 

### so we've come up with plenty of other different 21 

### options that are better, and I feel like the 2245

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### reason we go to school is so that we can progress 1 

### and do out with the old and in with the new. 2 

### Basically we are going to be better, more 3 

### healthy. 4 

### So there's this denial we have going on 5 

### in politics right now. I do believe CO2, in 6 

### excess, is toxic and anything that's toxic is 7 

### harmful to humans and also other life forms, so I 8 

### am in support of the Clean Power Plan to reduce 9 

### emissions and I hope that the United States can 10 

### be a leader in this effort because the rest of 11 

### the world is watching us. I thank President 12 

### Obama and his administration for taking the first 13 

### step in creating a cleaner, brighter future. 14

### MS. HEARD: Thank you. Dr. Headrick. 15

### DR. HEADRICK: Good morning. Thank you 16 

### for holding this public hearing to hear our 17 

### remarks. I'm Dr. Mary, M-a-r-y, Headrick, 18 

### H-e-a-d-r-i-c-k. I'm a physician of internal 19 

### medicine, which is viewed as a physician of 20 

### adults. However, I've worked in the emergency 21 

### room for 30 years along with primary care 2246

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### practice so I've seen many children. 1 

### Let me describe to you, as an emergency 2 

### room physician told by the nurse that there is an 3 

### infant or toddler in respiratory distress. 4 

### First, before I even walk into the room, I listen 5 

### to hear if the child is crying. That's a 6 

### wonderful, wonderful sign if that child can still 7 

### cry. Then when I enter the room I say, well, has 8 

### your child been able to take his or her bottle? 9 

### Have they been able to -- have they had enough 10 

### wind to be able to suck in between breaths? Have 11 

### they been able to consume enough fluids in this 12 

### respiratory environment that they're able to pee 13 

### and wet their diaper? 14

### So those are the early questions, unless 15 

### the child has already stopped breathing. And 16 

### then if the child isn't unclothed, I lift that 17 

### blanket, or I lift that shirt, and I look at the 18 

### lungs. You see the ribs, and for a child who is 19 

### in great digress you see the traction, where the 20 

### skin pulls back between those ribs because 21 

### they're working so hard trying to generate 2247

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### pressure to breathe. 1 

### Now we all know, from scientific 2 

### evidence, that ozone and other irritants related 3 

### to sulfur, nitrogen, and the black carbon with 4 

### the 2.5 ppm, small particles, are causes of 5 

### asthma and COPD. Since 1980, the incidence of 6 

### asthma in pediatric patients has more than 7 

### doubled, and the mortality rate has increased. I 8 

### believe the current, according to CDC, is 1.7 per 9 

### 100,000 of the infants and children under 18 are 10 

### asthma-related deaths, so we have a higher 11 

### mortality. We have asthma and COPD at a higher 12 

### incidence in adults. However, the mortality has 13 

### decreased in that population. So our most frail, 14 

### our youngest, are really being hit by the quality 15 

### of air, and that's in the face of declining 16 

### cigarette consumption and use at home. 17

### So this is something that we care about 18 

### for our children and their future, and when I 19 

### hear complaints about the cost of increased per20 

### kilowatt-hour with changing energy sources and 21 

### electric generation, I want to say, "But what is 2248

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### the cost if we do not do this? How many lives, 1 

### how much suffering?" 2 

### Now those are just the pediatric 3 

### patients. I also have the geriatric and the 4 

### adult patients, primarily the adult males who 5 

### live alone and do not have air conditioning, who 6 

### come into the emergency room because they have 7 

### collapsed. I see if their skin is still wet. 8 

### Can they still sweat? Are they in such distress 9 

### that they are now dehydrated and their skin is 10 

### dry, their mouth is dry, their conjunctiva in 11 

### their eyes. I've treated those patients. 12 

### Primarily they are adult males who live alone and 13 

### don't have air conditioning, and don't have a 14 

### wife to nag them to drink their water and to get 15 

### in out of the sun. However, we also have the 16 

### impaired, mentally ill patients, whether it's 17 

### Alzheimer's, and they're struck by these very hot 18 

### days. And I personally sheltered a single man 19 

### who was in distress during one of our hot days 2 20 

### years ago, and kept him for the weekend. So we 21


### have those extreme heat events. 2249

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### Now, I know that the Clean Power Plan is 1 

### to be implemented in part because of the health 2 

### risks for not addressing these pollutants. We 3 

### also have the pollutants, the smog, and we see 4 

### the pictures of the Chinese mothers saying keep 5 

### their children indoors because the smog is so 6 

### bad, and all of the risks that we have for that. 7 

### Additionally, to frail populations we have heart 8 

### conditions or lung conditions or kidney 9 

### conditions that make those extreme heat days or 10 

### extreme weather events very difficult, and I've 11 

### treated patients after a severe tornado, with all 12 

### the broken bones, having to cancel all the 13 

### elective bone surgeries so that we can put in 14 

### these emergencies following the fallen tree, the 15 

### fallen house, the fallen barn. 16

### So thank you for championing this. I 17 

### hope you will be strong champions for a most 18 

### powerful act you can, and I hope that we can 19 

### respond by pressuring our elected officials to 20 

### also support this and also to fund this in times 21


### to come. 2250

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### Thank you very much for this opportunity 1 

### to speak. 2 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Thank you both. 3 

### Our next speakers will be Dr. Marilyn Brown and 4 

### Kate Anthony. 5 

### DR. BROWN: Good morning. Thank you for 6 

### this opportunity to speak about the EPA proposed 7 

### federal plan and model rule. I am a professor, 8 

### Brook Byers Professor of Sustainable Systems in 9 

### the School of Public Policy at the Georgia 10 

### Institute of Technology, where I lead the Climate 11 

### Energy Policy Laboratory. 12

### And I'd like to start with some general 13 

### remarks. The United States fossil fuel plants is 14 

### our nation's single largest source of carbon 15 

### pollution and one of the largest sources in the 16 

### world. Climate change presents a clear and 17 

### present danger to human health and the 18 

### environment. As we just heard, all Americans 19 

### need to be protected and it should be regardless 20 

### of what state they live in. 21

### The Clean Power Plan will save thousands 2251

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### of lives each year, tens of thousands of asthma 1 

### attacks annually, and will help secure hundreds 2 

### of thousands of Americans don't miss days of work 3 

### due to harmful air pollution. The monetary value 4 

### of the benefits from the Clean Power Plan are in 5 

### the billions. 6 

### So thank you, EPA, for finalizing the 7 

### carbon pollution limits that give states a great 8 

### deal of flexibility in how they will address 9 

### these requirements. 10

### I want to speak to, now, the model rule. 11 

### EPA has provided extensive support to states to 12 

### help facilitate the development of their plans, 13 

### and it now needs to finalize the model rule 14 

### framework swiftly, to provide yet another tool in 15 

### the toolbox, that states can use to plan a 16 

### thoughtful reduction of their carbon pollution. 17 

### Standardized models are needed to provide 18 

### important guidance to states, to help them 19 

### develop strong rules that ensure environmental 20 

### integrity. Model rule frameworks can help reduce 21 

### the burden that states have, the administrative 2252

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### requirements necessary for states to provide the 1 

### nuts and bolts of their regulatory programs and 2 

### allowing them, instead, to spend their time 3 

### addressing the desires of their stakeholders, to 4 

### formulate plans that meet their stakeholders' 5 

### requirements, such as the tradeoff between 6 

### different clean electric power options. That's 7 

### where they need to spend their time, not on the 8 

### details. 9 

### These finalized model rule frameworks 10 

### will help facilitate interstate trading as well, 11 

### by doing the heavy lifting on the detailed 12 

### underpinnings of emissions trading programs, that 13 

### can ease the paths to achieving pollution 14 

### reductions by driving down costs and driving up 15 

### innovation. So the trading-ready feature of the 16 

### model rule is very important, a very important 17 

### opportunity for states to be compatible with 18 

### others, ensuring that companies and individuals 19 

### have more flexibility and compliance. 20

### So I strongly encourage EPA to consider 21 

### whether some component of the model rule might be 2253

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### issued quite quickly following the closing of 1 

### these comment periods. 2 

### If states decline to carry out their 3 

### responsibilities to protect human health and the 4 

### environment from carbon pollution, it is EPA's 5 

### responsibility to do so. That's why these model 6 

### frameworks are so important. Protection of our 7 

### communities and families from harmful air 8 

### pollution is safeguarded under our nation's clean 9 

### air laws, regardless of where one lives. It's a 10 

### compelling bipartisan vision of the Clean Air Act 11 

### formulated decades ago, that all Americans are 12 

### entitled to the protection of clean air under 13


### law. 14

### But to realize this vision, to ensure 15 

### that clean air for all Americans occurs, EPA must 16 

### act in a timely and effective fashion to secure 17 

### these reductions, even in states that decline to 18


### act themselves. 19

### We are in a race against time to address 20 

### climate pollution. As Pope Francis said, climate 21 

### change is a problem that can no longer left to 2254

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### future generations. I endorse EPA's proposal to 1 

### issue a federal plan for any state that does not 2 

### meet one of the interim state planning 3 

### milestones, and I urge EPA to do so within at 4 

### least 1 year or less after finding that a state 5 

### is not on track to submit a final state plan. 6 

### And finally, it is EPA's responsibility 7 

### to ensure that emission reductions occur, are in 8 

### fact realized, so they need to move swiftly on 9 

### accountability mechanisms to ensure that we can 10 

### measure and appropriately monitor emission 11 

### reduction. 12

### Thank you very much. 13

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 14 

### follow-up questions? 15

### [No audible response.] 16

### MS. ANTHONY: Hi. My name is Kate 17 

### Anthony. K-a-t-e A-n-t-h-o-n-y. I here with 18 

### the Sierra Club and I thank you for holding these 19 

### hearings and giving me this opportunity. 20

### I wanted to speak to the issue of nuclear 21 

### power. Many people, including some 2255

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### environmentalists, are thinking of nuclear power 1 

### as an acceptable alternative to oil and coal. 2 

### This is a mistake. Uranium is not a renewable 3 

### resource, and nuclear power is not clean power. 4 

### We are aware of the issue of radioactive waste, 5 

### tons of spent fuel rods and other radioactive 6 

### materials that are left behind in the process of 7 

### generating nuclear power. 8 

### These materials must be guarded and kept 9 

### safe for the next 10,000 years. Ten thousand 10 

### years, if we look back, is to the Stone Age, when 11 

### early humans hunted mastodons. It makes no sense 12 

### to think that we can keep radioactive materials 13 

### safe over eons of time like this. We have 14 

### already failed to do so. We have already found 15 

### radioactive waste leaking. 16

### But that's only one of the problems with 17 

### nuclear power. Uranium is mined as pitchblende 18 

### ore. Tons of pitchblende must be processed to 19 

### obtain a few ounces of usable uranium. Yes, you 20 

### heard that right. Tons of ore have to be chewed 21 

### through to get ounces of usable uranium. All the 2256

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### remainder of the tons of material are left behind 1 

### as mine tailings. These materials still contain 2 

### some low-level radioactivity, and these are in 3 

### the form of a fine power, so it readily becomes 4 

### airborne and waterborne, and is an ongoing 5 

### environmental hazard. 6 

### Nuclear power is a very expensive, very 7 

### high tech, very dirty form of fuel. We don't 8 

### need it. We have many forms of easily 9 

### obtainable, renewable, solar, wind, tidal, and 10 

### other clean power forms. 11

### So I ask you please to promote a strong 12 

### and clean power plan that does not include 13 

### nuclear power. 14

### Thank you. 15

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 16 

### questions? 17

### [No audible response.] 18

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. Our next 19 

### speakers are Sandy Kurtz and Joshua Dobie. 20

### MS. KURTZ: My name is Sandra Kurtz. 21


### It's S-a-n-d-r-a K-u-r-t-z. You can call me 2257

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### Sandy. 1 

### Thank you for the opportunity here and 2 

### thank you for your attentiveness. Taking notes, 3 

### and it looks like you're going to listen and 4 

### carry back our information and our opinions to 5 

### your fellow EPA people. We appreciate that. 6


### I have a few notes here but I had not 7 

### expected to speak, so this could be a little 8


### crazy. 9 

### [Laughter.] 10

### MS. KURTZ: I noticed that in the EPA 11 

### statement, when you were talking about the Clean 12 

### Power Plan, says on August 3, 2015, President 13 

### Obama and EPA announced the Clean Power Plan, a 14 

### historic and important step in reducing carbon 15 

### pollution from power plants, that takes real 16 

### action on climate change, and that is the goal of 17 

### these carbon emissions reductions, is the climate 18 

### change effort. 19

### I want to follow up on Ms. Anthony's 20 

### statements here to say that I don't think that 21 

### nuclear power is the way to go if you are 2258

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### addressing climate change, and it is not clean, 1 

### it is not zero carbon if you count the nuclear 2 

### fuel chain itself. While it is less than coal, 3 

### admittedly, it has all the waste issues. Kind of 4 

### the Clean Power Plan to reduce carbon and include 5 

### nuclear is like setting out for unintended 6 

### consequences, because with nuclear power there 7 

### are so many other pollutants that are put out 8 

### with nuclear power that they seem to be 9 

### overlooked, if you're just looking at carbon 10


### alone. 11

### I just want to echo the words of Arjun 12 

### Makhijani, who is the famous nuclear physicist 13 

### who wrote the book, "Carbon-Free Nuclear-Free by 14 

### 2050." I think he said it better than I can, and 15 

### understands it, no doubt, in great complexity. 16 

### These are his words: 17

### "It is too costly" -- speaking of nuclear 18 

### power -- "it takes too long, and hence, does not 19 

### address the problem of drastically reducing 20 

### carbon emissions in time. Using nuclear as a 21 

### main element for low-carbon energy system would 2259

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### create vast amounts of plutonium each year, 1 

### enough to make tens of thousands of nuclear 2 

### weapons. We already have too many of those. 3 

### "Enrichment plants of significant size 4 

### would have to be built somewhere each year to 5 

### feed these plants, creating terribly difficult, 6 

### possibly unmanageable materials accounting 7 

### problems and proliferation risks. Severe 8 

### accident consequences are unacceptable. For one 9 

### thing, they are intergenerational. Future 10 

### generations can dismantle wind turbines and 11 

### recycle the materials, but nuclear waste is 12 

### essentially forever. Transmutation is not a 13 

### solution. 14

### "Nuclear energy is incompatible with 15 

### openness and democracy in certain fundamental 16 

### ways. Nuclear energy is incompatible with 17 

### variable sources of energy, notably solar and 18 

### wind. It uses too much water, which is an 19 

### increasingly precious resource. 20

### "Nuclear energy is 24/7 until it is 21 

### 0/365. As we have seen time and again, 2260

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### especially in recent years, you can loss all 1 

### suddenly, for prolonged periods, for a variety of 2 

### reasons," and of course we all remember 3 

### Fukushima. And, in fact, nuclear plants have to 4 

### refuel every 18 months, so they're bound for that 5 

### time. So base-load nuclear is not a forward6 

### thinking solution. 7 

### Number 10 in Dr. Makhijani's list: "No 8 

### reasonable workable solution to protect future 9 

### generations from nuclear waste, including the 10 

### fissile materials in it, exists. Several 11 

### radionuclides of spent fuel pose threats for 12 

### unimaginably long periods for unimaginably long 13 

### periods. This includes plutonium 239, and there 14 

### are others. Uranium mining and milling has had 15 

### devastating impacts on communities" -- here's the 16 

### justice part -- "notably native communities and 17 

### in developing countries, including when they were 18 

### colonies. These impacts continue. 19

### "We know how to address the problem of 20 

### CO2 emissions better, faster, and cheaper with 21 

### efficiency, solar and wind as the main energy 2261

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### sources, without any other risks associated with 1 

### coal or nuclear. And along the way, we can build 2 

### a more democratized, resilient energy system than 3 

### the one we have. We don't need nuclear power to 4 

### address climate change, and should prepare to 5 

### phase out existing reactors instead of keeping 6 

### uneconomic lemons online." 7 

### MS. GETTLE: Your time is up. 8 

### MS. KURTZ: I'm sorry. Let me say one 9 

### more thing. I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 10 

### We are surrounded, depending on which way the 11 

### wind is blowing, by now, soon to be seven nuclear 12 

### reactors. The wind blows our way. There is 13 

### tritium in the water. There are radionuclides in 14 

### the air daily. It's really scary. 15

### So I'm hoping that the allowances for 16 

### nuclear power that got changed from the original 17 

### draft, I'm hoping that these will be tightened up 18 

### and nuclear Watts Bar 2, the nuclear power 19 

### reactor that's coming online here, probably by 20 

### the end of the year, they're calling it the first 21 

### key nuclear of this generation, and let's hope 2262

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### it's the last. 1 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Ms. Kurtz. Mr. 2 

### Dobie. 3 

### MR. DOBIE: Hi. My name is Josh Dobie 4 

### [ph]. I'm originally from New Orleans but I'm 5 

### here from Chattanooga, Tennessee. This Clean 6 

### Power Plan is a great first step. It's something 7 

### that's critically needed, an effort to prevent 8 

### climate conducing events, a lot of things really. 9 

### The biggest concern I have is my 10 

### generation has pretty much lost interest in the 11 

### debate. There's not very many climate change 12 

### deniers in my generation, but, at the same time, 13 

### they don't want to get involved because they feel 14 

### like they can't do anything. They have no power 15 

### compared to anybody in the generation above them. 16 

### For one, they have no voice, two, they have no 17 

### power, and three, we have no money, so that's the 18 

### biggest concern. But this plan could be a step 19 

### in the right direction, so that way we can see 20 

### that it's not the companies that are in charge. 21 

### It could be the voice of the people. 2263

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### So that being said, if we can keep 1 

### pursuing the Clean Power Plan and plans like it, 2 

### if we can keep the states from protesting, if we 3 

### can actually have -- if it feels like we have a 4 

### voice, even my generation maybe will do something 5 

### in the future. 6 

### My background is in paleontology and 7 

### biology, so I agree that the human aspects of all 8 

### this is incredibly critical, but it's not my 9 

### expertise. I'm here to talk about the natural 10 

### losses we'll suffer if we don't do something. 11 

### I'm going to speak on a much more -- on a more 12 

### tangible scale than what we do in paleontology or 13 

### what people talk about when they think about 14 

### climate change. 15

### In reality, there's ecosystems all over 16 

### the South, which problematically, most of the 17 

### states in the South -- actually, all the states 18 

### in the South, other than Virginia and Kentucky, 19 

### which are staying silent, and they might 20 

### eventually follow suit as well -- are where most 21 

### of the biodiversity in the northern hemisphere 2264

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### is, and there were almost -- and it's a very high 1 

### percentage in North America, primarily in the 2 

### southern Appalachians. From my research in 3 

### paleontology, looking at both the Miocene and the 4 

### Pliocene, so 10,000 years ago and 5 million years 5 

### ago, the southern Appalachian Mountains are the 6 

### last-ditch effort for animals to survive. As 7 

### they get eastward, as climate changes, then they 8 

### end up in these high elevations that mirrored the 9 

### climate that they're used to being in, and once 10 

### they're gone from the southern Appalachians, 11 

### they're extinct. 12

### I'm not going to give you a laundry list 13 

### of animals, but a salamander is a really good 14 

### example. We have 55 species' of salamanders in 15 

### the southern Appalachians, within maybe 100 16 

### miles, and there are only -- I think it's 850, or 17 

### 680 species of salamanders in the entire world. 18 

### Twenty-one species are now endemic to the 19 

### southern Appalachians, which means they live 20 

### nowhere else, and these only live in small, 21 

### isolated communities. The southern Appalachians, 2265

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### and there are areas in Georgia, North Carolina, 1 

### South Carolina, that are the last tiny, tiny 2 

### remnants of broad-leaf deciduous forests, so once 3 

### these are gone, then all the species that have 4 

### been evolving for millions of years in these 5 

### localities, that were across the entirety of 6 

### North America, are going to be extinct. 7 

### The reason I bring up salamanders in the 8 

### southern Appalachians is because it's in between 9 

### two states, which have, in the last few years, 10 

### and especially in the last couple of decades, 11 

### have taken a very conservative swing, and that's 12 

### North Carolina and Tennessee. So most of our 13 

### most important and critically endangered 14


### resources are between these two states that don't 15 

### want anything to have to do with Federal 16 

### Government regulations, and the EPA cannot let 17 

### them slip through. They can't let them take them 18 

### -- they can't let them say, well, we have less 19 

### money than everybody else, or we have this, that, 20 

### or the other, and therefore we should be subject 21 

### to such strict regulations. 2266

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### In reality, they have the most to lose. 1 

### If they lose these ecosystems, they lose tourism, 2 

### they lose resources, and eventually it will cause 3 

### the loss of people, at least in certain areas 4 

### when they become uninhabitable. So they have the 5 

### greatest loss, and so by saying that they don't 6 

### have the money to prevent it, that's a copout, 7 

### and they need to be forced into these 8 

### regulations. 9 

### Thank you. 10

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Thank you both. 11 

### Our next two speakers are Anne Blair and Marilyn 12


### Evans. 13

### MS. BLAIR: Thank you. Good morning. My 14 

### name is Anne Blair, A-n-n-e B-l-a-i-r. 15

### Thank you for the opportunity today to 16 

### speak to you regarding the federal implementation 17 

### plan of the historic Clean Power Plan. I am a 18 

### native North Carolinian, a 15-year resident of 19 

### Georgia, and Program Director for the Southern 20 

### Alliance for Clean Energy, a regional nonprofit 21 

### organization in the Southeast. 2267

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### Air quality remains a serious public 1 

### health issue in many of our major cities in the 2 

### Southeast. Atlanta is currently in nonattainment 3 

### for both ozone and fine particular pollution, two 4 

### pollutants that will also be reduced thanks to 5 

### the Clean Power Plan limits on CO2. 6 

### As you well know, the Southeast is 7 

### currently home to 73 utility-owned coal plants. 8 

### We have the dirtiest coal plant in the country, 9 

### Georgia Power's Plant Scherer. According to the 10 

### NAACP Coal Blooded Report, nearly 6 million 11 

### Americans live within 3 miles of a coal power 12 

### plant. These communities have an average per 13 

### capita income of just $18,000 per year. Thirty14 

### nine percent of people living within 3 miles of 15 

### the coal plant are people of color. Low-income 16 

### communities and communities of color are 17 

### disproportionately affected by our reliance on 18 

### coal for energy. But not only are these 19 

### communities vulnerable to air quality problems 20 

### but also to climate change. 21

### Even more, it's often harder for these 2268

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### families that are on low income or a fixed income 1 

### to recover from emergency weather events due to 2 

### lack of financial resources. We have a poverty 3 

### crisis in our country, and in the South in 4 

### particular. Our region includes four out of the 5 

### top five states with the highest percentage of 6 

### people below the federal poverty guideline. In 7 

### Georgia alone, 1.8 million people live below that 8 

### line, and they could use all the help they could 9 

### get. 10

### The Clean Power Plan represents a 11 

### critical crossroads for low-income families. The 12 

### compliance pathways adopted by states could 13 

### either lead to more affordable bills focusing on 14 

### low-income energy efficiency programs, or result 15 

### in higher bills that could lead to financial 16 

### breaking points for millions of people. For low17 

### income families, utility bills represent a very 18 

### large part of their monthly budgets, and the 19 

### inability to keep up with the high utility bills 20 

### is the second-leading cause of homelessness. 21

### While many low-income families in the 2269

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### Southeast pay electric rates that are below the 1 

### national average, we have some of the highest 2 

### bills in the country. In fact, seven of the ten 3 

### states with the highest average residential 4 

### electric bills are located in the South. 5 

### However, for decades now, utilities across the 6 

### country have developed best practices for 7 

### utilizing energy efficiency programs to help 8 

### customers lower their bills. In addition, it has 9 

### been proven time and again that it's more 10 

### effective to reduce usage through energy 11 

### efficiency than build new generating capacity. 12

### As a result, some states have adopted 13 

### regulations that require utilities to look at 14 

### energy efficiency first in their resource 15 

### planning. Unfortunately, none of those states 16 

### are in the Southeast, and our utilities continue 17 

### to waste ratepayer dollars by failing to fully 18 

### invest in cost-effective solutions. Without 19 

### sufficient incentives and mandates in the Clean 20 

### Power Plan, there is no assurance that 21 

### Southeastern utilities will change course and 2270

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### embrace energy efficiency as the centerpiece of 1 

### their resource planning decisions. 2 

### Our organization, Southern Alliance for 3 

### Clean Energy, applauds EPA for taking 4 

### environmental justice into account in the Clean 5 

### Power Plan, and for providing the opportunity to 6 

### earn extra credit for low-income energy 7 

### efficiency and renewable energy like wind and 8 

### solar. However, in any revisions to the rule, 9 

### the Clean Energy Incentive Program, the Federal 10 

### Compliance Plans, and technical support 11 

### documents, we encourage the EPA to continue to 12 

### seek ways to drive investment in cost-effective 13 

### energy efficiency with particular focus for low14 

### income programs. 15

### States will provide specific 16 

### recommendations when we fill our comments in late 17 

### January. With the exception of Tennessee, most 18 

### Southeast states are currently part of lawsuits 19 

### challenging the Clean Power Plan. This makes a 20 

### federal plan even more important. In the event 21 

### that our states do not submit acceptable plans, 2271

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### it's vital that there's a strong federal plan 1 

### that affords the benefits to our vulnerable 2 

### communities and helps foster clean energy jobs. 3 

### The Federal Implementation Plan should 4 

### include equitable policies that make long-term 5 

### investments into our communities. Finally, we 6 

### strongly encourage the EPA to continue and expand 7 

### in engagement with Southeast regulators, 8 

### stressing the importance for states to use the 9 

### environmental justice screening tool to determine 10 

### how best to identify and engage with vulnerable 11 

### communities, who have long suffered the negative 12 

### health effects of coal-powered power plans. 13

### Thank you for your time. 14

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any comments or 15 

### questions? 16

### [No audible response.] 17

### MS. GETTLE: Are you going to submit your 18


### statement? 19

### MS. BLAIR: Yes. I can drop them off. 20

### MS. GETTLE: Okay. Thank you. All 21 

### right. Ms. Evans. 2272

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### MS. EVANS: Good morning. My name is 1 

### Marilyn Evans. You spell that M-a-r-i-l-y-n 2 

### E-v-a-n-s, and I'm one of the leaders of National 3 

### People's Action, and Communities United for 4 

### Action, of Cincinnati, Ohio. I am here today to 5 

### ask you, not only some business but to react, to 6 

### put some strong writers, I would say some strong 7 

### chiefs in the art of fablon [ph]. 8 

### [Laughter.] 9 

### MS. EVANS: We need some strong chiefs in 10


### the Clean Power Plan and the federal 11 

### implementation pan. I have worked for clear air 12 

### for the last 30 years. I have worked hard to get 13 

### Cincinnati Environmental Justice Department to 14 

### pass. But when we got it passed, there wasn't 15 

### any money for it, so it's just sitting there. 16 

### And taking a look back, we need protection from 17 

### the dirty air, a lot of protection from dirty 18 

### air, and we need a way to create clean, 19 

### affordable power. 20

### I have raised 20 children. Some I had on 21 

### my own and the others I adopted. I am a proud 2273

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### grandmother of 19, and a great-grandmother of 10. 1


### I have worked so hard because of them. I want 2 

### them to be able to play outside and breathe clean 3 

### air. 4 

### I wake up every night about four o'clock, 5 

### coughing and gasping for air. So do many of my 6 

### neighbors; they do the same thing. I always 7 

### think of my friend and my neighbor, Frankie 8 

### Ferguson. She was a tireless woman who started 9 

### youth programs and micro-businesses in our 10 

### neighborhood. She believed that our youth just 11 

### needed opportunities to succeed, and she worked 12 

### hard as a volunteer for the youth, putting these 13 

### programs in place for the youth. 14

### Frankie thought she had 5 years to go, 15 

### from COPD. She went from the environment woman 16 

### to someone who couldn't leave her apartment when 17 

### all of her options were gone. I watched her 18 

### breathe and decline, and I watched her deal with 19 

### pain. We lost a treasure in our community. And 20 

### the part that makes me most angry is that Frankie 21 

### didn't have to die. The polluters who filled our 2274

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### air with toxic substance, and the trucks that 1 

### spewed unsafe chemicals should be accountable. 2 

### Low-income neighborhoods shouldn't have to 3 

### shoulder the burden by ourselves. We need 4 

### regulations that consider the accumulative of 5 

### things, of all the power plants and factories, 6 

### and their smokestacks. We need to punish the 7 

### industries that are killing us. Power companies 8 

### have polluted; they need to pay for the 9 

### restoration program of low-income people and for 10 

### the creation of clean power. We want low-income 11 

### communities to be able to afford clean power. We 12 

### need the information and the opportunity to 13 

### create green, affordable power. 14

### We also want to ensure jobs in our 15 

### communities through the green power generation. 16

### I'd like to think you for having me here 17 

### today, and I hope you heard. Thank you. 18

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. The next 19 

### speaker will be Roy Davis and Simieon Evans. 20

### Mr. Davis, are you ready? 21

### MR. DAVIS: Yes. My name is Roy Davis. 2275

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### Thank you all for being here today. 1 

### My name is Roy Davis. I'm a board member 2 

### with CUFA, executive board member of CUFA, 3 

### Communities United for Action. I'm also involved 4 

### in NPA, which is the National People's 5 

### organization. I traveled here from Cincinnati in 6 

### order to let people know about the issues that we 7 

### have, not only in Cincinnati but in other 8 

### contingent state also, about the environment. 9 

### We know we have big problems with the 10 

### environment. I'm concerned more about our 11 

### children, the ones who are going to grow up and 12 

### run this country one day. We'd like for them to 13 

### be healthy enough to make decisions with a clear 14 

### mind and brain, and the environment does have a 15 

### way of destroying a person's body, mind, and 16 

### soul. What we need today is some type of 17 

### implement to make this happen, that the key is to 18 

### grow up without all the toxins and stuff in the 19 

### air. 20

### Myself, I've been diagnosed with COPD, 21 

### and that's definitely a breathing problem. It's 2276

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### chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has a 1 

### lot to do with your breathing, of course, and 2 

### being that I'm a veteran, whereas that I survived 3 

### where many did not come home. And now I'm here 4 

### dying of this environmental thing, a slow death. 5 

### I go off to war and the whole idea is to survive 6 

### and I get here and I'm dying from this breathing. 7 

### Either way, it's a challenge, and I find this 8 

### challenge here ridiculous that we have to come 9 

### all the way home and then die, for breathing. I 10 

### feel strongly against that. 11

### I am survivor and I'm sure we all are 12 

### survivors. At this particular time, I 13 

### [inaudible] in Cincinnati. I live about 100 14 

### yards from a trucking company. Every morning, I 15 

### get up in the morning, the trucks start up. When 16 

### trucks start up, what happens? The gas and fuel 17 

### go in the air, and with my COPD I have to put a 18 

### mask on to breathe. No oxygen. People say, 19 

### "Move from there. Move." When you've got 20 20 

### years, you cannot be moving. That takes a little 21 

### something, too. It's not the moving -- let's 2277

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### make things better in the neighborhood. Let's 1 

### not make everybody have to move out of the 2 

### neighborhood. Let's do something to cause 3 

### businesses to create a better environment for the 4 

### neighborhood. 5 

### So I hope someone is listening to me 6 

### about that, and I feel strongly about the 7 

### elderly. Believe it or not, I'm a senior. I'll 8 

### be 70 years old soon, and my health is very 9 

### important to me. I try to stay healthy, and 10 

### being a military person also, but what I'm 11 

### concerned about now is life itself, to expand our 12 

### lives, not to make a short life for ourselves and 13 

### our children. 14

### So implementing certain things to make 15 

### this better. I'm asking for four things, to make 16 

### sure that people who are polluting our air have 17 

### to pay to support renewable energy and 18 

### weatherization in low-income communities; to make 19 

### renewable energy affordable and available to low20 

### income people; and doesn't promote fracking, 21 

### natural gas or nuclear energy, which causes other 2278

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### environmental problems. 1 

### I'm going to close this with something -- 2 

### it's military again. Is there anyone here from 3 

### the military? When you've been in the service, 4 

### you think it over. I defend my country from 5 

### hostile environments, and also -- I'm sorry. I'm 6 

### still talking about the military. I'm getting 7 

### kind of messed up here. I defended my country 8 

### from foreign and domestic entities. Domestic 9 

### entities are the enemies around you. I consider 10 

### this problem as an enemy. It's an enemy to all 11 

### of us, and we have to fight it also, for our 12 

### neighbors, for our communities. It goes on and 13



### on. 14

### So if you can fight for your own life, 15 

### and we are, we are -- you may not think so but we 16 

### are -- let's all get together and do something 17 

### about making our lives a lot better. Okay? 18

### I want to thank you guys for giving me 19 

### the time and opportunity to speak. 20

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Mr. Davis. Mr. 21


### Evans? 2279

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### MR. EVANS: Hello. My name is Simieon 1 

### Evans. I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm with 2 

### Working With Neighborhoods [ph] and Communities 3 

### United for Action. I grew up in low-income 4 

### housing all my life and even as a child I could 5 

### see smokestacks going 7 days a week, 365 days, 6 

### and never stopping. And as I got older, the 7 

### smokestacks have not stopped but they have gained 8 

### and increased in size and numbers in our 9 

### communities. It's kind of sad that in our 10 

### community it's a 20-year life expectancy, then 10 11 

### miles away, in other communities that doesn't 12 

### have industrial pollution, smokestacks, and 13 

### landfills right outside the doors. 14

### I have children of my own, which we 15 

### really can't let them play outside in over 90- 16 

### degree weather because of the smog alerts in 17 

### Cincinnati, and the air is of poor quality any 18 

### other time of the summer. 19

### I come from a state where they are 20 

### actually suing the Federal Government over the 21 

### Clean Power Plan act. So we're pretty sure they 2280

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### don't have a plan to implement. So we're hoping 1 

### that the federal plan is strong, punishes the 2 

### culprits who are polluting the air instead of 3 

### just slapping them on the wrist, and letting them 4 

### get away with what they've been doing for all the 5


### years. 6 

### We would like to limit the number of 7 

### factories that goes in one area, because it seems 8 

### like they're all being put in low-income areas, 9 

### and they're getting permits to keep spewing 10 

### pollution into our air, right outside our doors, 11 

### and we really can't do nothing about it. It 12 

### seems like we don't have anybody to protect us 13


### from them. 14

### And we took some action and all to 15 

### helping improve our air. We planted trees, did 16 

### gardens, the city cleaned up, but no one seemed 17 

### to hear. I mean, it really helped because more 18 

### factories are moving in our communities at 19 

### alarming rates. 20

### So I just wanted to give you something to 21 

### think about, and thank you for listening. 2281

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### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Mr. Evans. Our 1 

### next speakers are Braxton Bradley and Lindsay 2 

### Pace. And I want to remind you that when you 3 

### start to speak to please spell both your first 4


### and last names. 5 

### MR. BRADLEY: Hi. I'm Braxton Bradley. 6 

### It's spelled B-r-a-x-t-o-n B-r-a-d-l-e-y. 7 

### Air is sacred. We all share it with 8 

### living things. It doesn't matter the color of 9 

### your skin, your income, your religion. Carbon 10 

### emissions are at an all-time high. The records 11 

### show that emissions are equivalent to mass 12 

### extinctions on the planet, is what they're saying 13 

### in science. By mass extinction I mean the rate 14 

### that it's going at is a lot quicker, and it's a 15 

### lot more prevalent. 16

### The Clean Power Plan is a moral 17 

### imperative for life and humanity because of this, 18 

### so I want to thank you, EPA, for protecting our 19 

### sacred right, going in the direction of clean 20 

### air. 21

### I have a child and I'm very concerned 2282

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### about his future, not because of environmental 1 

### implications but all the other madness that's 2 

### kind of going on in the world, and it seems like 3 

### the planet is just some sort of hospice right 4



### now. 5 

### America is a great country, and we don't 6 

### necessarily sometimes take it away but we do 7 

### watch and see what works and we stand on it, and 8 

### can make things good because we try to align with 9 

### that self-interest. I don't know. I believe 10 

### America wants to be a leader in the global 11 

### energy, probably going to have to restructure the 12 

### management. It's not going to be just throwing a 13 

### bunch of coal, taxing to make it cheap, as a 14 

### dirty fuel that's polluting our air, causing all 15 

### these problems. I believe part of that plan is 16 

### energy dissent. I know some of that is already 17 

### happening. That's a good direction. Energy 18 

### efficient buildings, too, so then we don't need 19 

### as much energy on a mass scale, such as one 20 

### switch kind of deal. 21

### And renewable energy is an appropriate 2283

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### technology in this energy dissent. We get to 1 

### that, to stay, because if it's out, what will 2 

### work? Well, when it's on a mass scale like that, 3 

### it can't, so part of the restructuring, as well 4 

### as that management system, I believe part of that 5 

### can be restructuring it for community power 6 

### plants, especially in these areas where, because 7 

### of income, they get the brunt of fossil fuel 8 

### plants. 9 

### If you go in these communities and start 10 

### community clean air co-ops, this will be the 11 

### well-being of the community. It will create 12 

### jobs, high-value jobs. You don't have to be a -- 13 

### you don't have to -- it will be a high-value job 14 

### because we're working for a better cause. We're 15 

### trying to do something better for the planet, for 16 

### all, which is this sacred air that we breathe, 17


### that we need. 18

### America can renew the deal, and by doing 19 

### this, you're going to bring well-being to the 20 

### communities, the global community, and you're 21 

### also going to -- you're also going to be able to 2284

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### bring more equality to the people, rather than 1 

### the liberties of a few, who just seem to be 2 

### wanting to make a profit of all the subsidies in 3 

### the coal plants and all this stuff that I don't 4 

### really want to get into. That's for another 5 

### meeting. 6 

### But I just believe that's a very good 7 

### thing that could happen, maybe in the future, and 8 

### it's just one step at a time. [Inaudible, 9 

### coughing], in a way. I mean, I could talk about 10 

### Syria and how they cut all the trees down, okay? 11 

### Climate change happened really quick where they 12 

### couldn't feed themselves, the prices of food went 13 

### up, and things collapsed. We can look at that. 14


### It's what not to do. 15

### I feel like I had one other thing to say. 16 

### Oh yeah. So, okay. Another thing. The sun and 17 

### wind are free, okay, so these low-income places, 18 

### that's where you start, so then we don't have to 19 

### take from the liberties of these rich people and 20 

### tax them and throw money at them. It's free. 21

### That's all I've got. 2285

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### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Ms. Pace. Is 1 

### the red light on? You're good. If you just get 2 

### close to the mic, so that the court reporter can 3 

### hear you. 4 

### MS. PACE: My name is Lindsey Pace and 5 

### I'm the Tennessee Field Manager for Moms Clean 6 

### Air Force. We're a community of parents, 7 

### grandparents, aunts, and uncles that are unified 8 

### in the knowledge that air pollution is not only 9 

### affecting our children's health but also their 10 

### futures. I stand here today as a mom, a former 11 

### teacher, and a long-time advocate for our 12 

### youngest citizens. I am speaking on behalf of 13 

### their collective voice, for our children 14 

### disproportionately bear the harshest impact of 15 

### our changing climate. 16

### Children are at higher risk for the 17 

### negative health effects of our changing climate, 18 

### including respiratory illness and asthma attacks. 19 

### As I'm sure we all know, air pollution is a huge 20 

### trigger for an asthma attack and in Tennessee we 21 

### have almost 11.5 percent of our kids living with 2286

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### asthma, which is higher than the national average 1 

### of 10 percent. In Chattanooga, where I live, our 2 

### rate of asthma is closer to 12.5 percent. 3 

### Chattanooga, Memphis, and Knoxville are all in 4 

### the top ten cities of hardest places to live with 5 

### asthma, and growing up with a younger brother who 6 

### suffered severely from asthma, there is nothing 7 

### scarier than watching somebody not be able to 8 

### perform the most basic function, which is 9 

### breathing. 10

### According to the American Lung 11 

### Association, approximately 55 million children 12 

### are living in 191 counties nationwide where the 13 

### air quality places them at risk for premature 14 

### death, aggravated asthma, difficulty breathing, 15 

### cardiovascular harm, and lower birth weight. 16 

### America's Clean Power Plan will reduce greenhouse 17 

### gas emissions from power plants by 30 percent, 18 

### below 2005 levels, by the year 2030. So far this 19 

### has been the single biggest action to fight 20 

### climate change that our country has ever seen. 21

### The Clean Power Plan will also provide 2287

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### immediate health benefits for everyone by 1 

### reducing soot and smog causing pollution. Cuts 2 

### of smog and soot that come along with reducing 3 

### carbon pollution will bring major health benefits 4 

### for American families. In 2030, this would mean 5 

### up to 3,000 fewer premature deaths, 90,000 fewer 6 

### asthma attacks in children, and 1,700 fewer 7 

### hospital admissions, and avoiding 300,000 missed 8 

### days of school and work. And as a teacher I know 9 

### that so many of the kids I used to teach were 10 

### absent from school a lot of times because of 11 

### asthma attacks, or my brother, weeks at a time he 12 

### was out, and that had a really big health impact 13 

### but it also has a really big economic impact on 14 

### family. 15

### Additionally, in a recent Harvard study, 16 

### Tennessee was ranked as one of the top states in 17 

### the nation for public health gains through 18 

### implementation of the Clean Power Plan. As a 19 

### mom, I do everything I can to protect my 20 

### daughter. When we go in the car, I make sure 21 

### she's in the car seat, I take her to her doctor 2288

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### for checkups, and I buy her healthy food to eat. 1 

### But what I can't do is ensure that the air she is 2 

### breathing when she's playing outside is safe for 3 

### her tiny developing lungs. I can't buy her clean 4 

### air to breathe, and I can't guarantee that her 5 

### health, her future, and her safety won't be 6 

### impacted by climate change, because it already 7 

### is. 8 

### Climate change isn't some far off, in the 9 

### future time. It's happening now, and we're 10 

### already seeing the impacts of climate change, and 11 

### if we continue down the path of unchecked 12 

### greenhouse gases, we can expect to see an even 13 

### larger increase in asthma attacks, heat- and 14 

### bacteria-related illnesses, disruptions to our 15 

### food and water supply, and more extreme weather 16 

### disasters. 17

### The Clean Power Plan is the most 18 

### impactful step in limiting the health impacts of 19 

### climate change. I support the common sense 20 

### solutions in the Clean Power Plan, starting with 21 

### the EPA to limit the carbon pollution from our 2289

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### power plants. While we have set limits for 1 

### arsenic, mercury, and lead, we have, to this 2 

### time, let power plants release as much carbon 3 

### pollution as they want. It's time to set a limit 4 

### on pollution that affects our kids' health. The 5 

### Clean Power Plan is a historic step forward to 6 

### give our kids and grandkids the cleaner, safer 7 

### future they deserve. 8 

### And thank you so much for this 9 

### opportunity to testify. 10

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. 11

### [Applause.] 12

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Our next two 13 

### speakers are Colleen Kiernan and Ginny Kincer. 14

### MS. KIERNAN: Good morning. My name is 15 

### Colleen Kiernan. I'm the Director of the Georgia 16 

### Chapter of the Sierra Club. We have over 55,000 17 

### members and supports in Georgia, and stabilizing 18 

### our climate is top priority. We recently saw 19 

### tidal flooding on our coast which stranded 20 

### residents of Tybee Island for 2 days, and we know 21 

### that the frequency of floods, drought, severe 2290

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### weather, and disease will only increase unless we 1 

### take immediate and serious action to reduce the 2 

### pollution that causes climate change. And for 3 

### this first step I'd like to thank EPA, though I 4 

### am a bit disappointed on the less stringent 5 

### targets for Georgia in the final rule. 6 

### We're here today to talk about the new 7 

### parts of the rule, the Federal Implementation 8 

### Plan, which Georgia officials have assured us we 9 

### will not resort to, but I'm here to say that it 10 

### should not be weakened in any way, as that part 11 

### of the rule is finalized. And we're also here to 12 

### talk about the Clean Energy Incentive Program, 13 

### which we think has great potential to spread the 14 

### benefits of clean energy more equitably. 15

### So, yeah, those two things are great. 16 

### What I would like to spend a couple of minutes 17 

### talking about is my profound disappointment with 18 

### Georgia Power's position on this issue. On 19 

### October 23rd, they joined with the Utility Air 20 

### Regulatory Group to challenge the rule. They 21 

### submitted a filing in support of the lawsuit, and 2291

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### in that filing John Pemberton, who is the chief 1 

### of their transmission, or their generation unit, 2 

### filed a declaration, and he talked a big game 3 

### about how costly the rule was going to be and how 4 

### they might not be able to keep the lights on as 5 

### early as next year as a result, which will cost 6 

### their customers untold millions -- $580 million 7


### was the number thrown out there. 8 

### These claims are a bold disregard for the 9 

### facts, and even if any of them are true, Georgia 10 

### Power has already started on the path of reducing 11 

### their carbon emissions, and the changes they've 12 

### made so far, retiring coal units and buying cheap 13 

### wind and solar, were not done to comply with the 14 

### rule. These changes were made because they make 15 

### economic sense, for shareholders and for rate 16



### payers. 17

### So one of the arguments they make in this 18 

### filing is that they're going to need to retire 19 

### 4,800 megawatts of fossil fuel-fired units, 20 

### constituting more than 20 percent of Georgia 21 

### Power's generating capacity in 2016 alone. So 2292

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### the whole point of the Clean Power Plan is that 1 

### states get to choose. They're referencing EPA's 2 

### Integrated Planning Model Analysis and saying 3 

### that they are going to have to do these things, 4


### but of course we know that's not true. The 5 

### compliance deadline, the first milestone, doesn't 6 

### end until 2022, and so this entire argument that 7 

### they've built after that is simply not true. You 8 

### know, Georgia is in a fine position to get to 9 

### 2022 without even really have to do anything 10


### else. 11

### The other argument -- we get to decide. 12 

### We get to decide, Georgia regulators, whether we 13 

### go with our rate-based or a mass-based compliance 14 

### regime. We get to decide whether we're going to 15 

### trade with other states. We get to decide 16 

### whether we allocate all of our pollution credits 17 

### to existing plans or if we want to make room for 18 

### new natural gas generation. 19

### They also spend quite a bit of time 20 

### talking about the reserve margins. So this is 21 

### the guideline that NERC gives, that we'd have 15 2293

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### percent over the amount of capacity that we might 1 

### need on the day that we reach the peak power. So 2 

### we are, right now, today -- so they talk about 3 

### after they shut down these 4,800 megawatts of 4 

### coal plants that they're going to be dangerously 5 

### -- they're going to, you know, be almost to zero 6 

### in terms of the reserve margin capacity. 7 

### This is an insane statement to make. We 8 

### are currently at 37 percent reserve margin, so 9 

### even if all 4,800, or across the Southern Company 10 

### system, all 8,000 that they're talking about, 11 

### megawatts of coal, have to be shut down, we will 12 

### still be well above the 15 percent reserve 13 

### margin. There is no danger that our lights are 14 

### going to go off. We have more than enough coal15 

### fired power plants and other generation to be 16 

### fine. 17

### So, yeah, I printed out -- this is a 18 

### Summary Reliability Assessment from 2014 that 19 

### shows -- and I did the math. So I took the 20 

### current demand, which is 46,000 megawatts on the 21 

### peak point, and the amount of megawatts that we 2294

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### have, 63,000. So even if you shut down 8,000 1 

### megawatts, we're still at 19.8 percent reserve 2 

### margin. 3 

### So Georgia is adding nuclear, solar, and 4 

### wind, and even if they did do all of the 5 

### retirements right away, which they're not 6 

### required to do, these are wildly exaggerated cost 7 

### figures and Georgia is already on the path to 8 

### compliance. We have created over 20,000 jobs 9 

### just in Georgia in the clean energy industry, 10 

### which is more than the people who are employed in 11 

### coal plants, nuclear plants, and natural gas 12 

### plants combined. We have the ability to be a 13 

### leader on the path to a clean energy future and 14 

### EPA, I hope that you continue to hold our feet to 15 

### the fire. 16

### Thank you. 17

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 18 

### questions? 19

### MS. HEARD: What Georgia Power filing 20 

### were you referring to? 21

### MS. KIERNAN: It was a declaration by 2295

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### John Pemberton. I printed it out. It's part of 1 

### the Utility Air Regulatory Group filing that was 2 

### made on October 23rd. 3 

### MS. GETTLE: Anything else? 4 

### [No audible response.] 5 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Ms. Kincer. 6 

### MS. KINCER: Thank you. My name is Ginny 7 

### Kincer. That's G-i-n-n-y K-i-n-c-e-r. I want 8 

### to thank all of you here in the audience, as well 9 

### as listening. It really means a lot that there 10 

### are so many people here, taking the time out of 11 

### their day to be at this hearing. 12

### I am the Chief Operations Officer for 13 

### Tennessee Solar Solutions in Chattanooga, 14 

### Tennessee, a solar energy company that, in 2015, 15 

### was ranked one of America's top solar companies, 16 

### and the proud owner of 7.2 kilowatt solar energy 17 

### system on my home. Tennessee Solar Solutions 18 

### designs, installs, and maintains solar energy 19 

### systems for residential, commercial, and 20 

### agricultural energy needs. I'm here today to 21 

### speak in support of the EPA's Clean Power Plan 2296

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### and comment on the recently proposed Federal 1 

### Implementation Plan from the viewpoint of the 2 

### solar industry. 3 

### As many of you know in this room, the 4 

### solar industry is the fastest growing source of 5 

### renewable energy in America, that I cued applause 6 

### back there, I think. 7 

### [Laughter.] 8 

### MS. KINCER: There is now enough solar 9 

### energy in the United States to power more than 10 

### 4.3 million homes, reducing carbon emissions by 11 

### 23.5 metric tons each year. The Clean Power Plan 12 

### was spurs thousands of megawatts of additional 13 

### solar deployment, in addition to 50,000 megawatts 14 

### of projected, to come online before 2020. The 15 

### Clean Power Plan is the key to making sure that 16 

### those numbers continue to rise. 17

### Based on what I've said, you might think 18 

### I'm using this opportunity as a self-serving 19 

### purpose, but let me break this down a little 20 

### further. Yes, the Clean Power Plan provides 21 

### great opportunities. These opportunities are not 2297

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### just for solar or renewable energy companies, but 1 

### they're for economic growth and sustainable 2 

### development, because investing in clean energy 3 

### will create jobs and fuel economic growth in our 4 

### country. In fact, the EPA estimates that the 5 

### Clean Power Plan will deliver annual benefits of 6 

### up to $93 billion by 2030. That is a direct net 7 

### job gain of roughly 96,000. 8 

### The solar energy industry has added more 9 

### than 100,000 jobs in the last decade and now 10 

### employs over 175,000 Americans. The Clean Power 11 

### Plan will fuel more solar deployment and allow 12 

### this unprecedented growth to continue. Solar is 13 

### currently on track to achieve it's goal of 14 

### becoming the most diverse sector in the United 15 

### States energy industry, with already more than 16 

### 37,500 female solar workers across America, 17 

### including myself. 18


### The most recent census found that the 19 

### solar industry employed over 100,000 people in 20 

### August of 2011, and that solar jobs were growing 21 

### over ten times the rate of the overall U.S. 2298

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### economy. When states choose to comply with their 1 

### solar, they are choosing to invest in an industry 2 

### committed to promoting diversity in the workforce 3 

### as well, one that provides economic opportunity 4 

### to everyone, regardless of gender, race, or 5 

### sexual orientation. Clean energy workers 6 

### comprise 1.6 percent of Tennessee's labor market. 7 

### Most workers support installation and generation, 8 

### but manufacturing sector has nearly grown by 10 9 

### percent, adding about 1,249 new jobs. 10

### In 2015, clean energy firms in Tennessee 11 

### supported 44,296 workers at 2,611 businesses. 12 

### That's nearly half, 46 percent, of businesses 13 

### respondent derived from the majority of their 14 

### revenue from clean energy activities. This was 15 

### an increase in 2,600 workers over 2014, which is 16 

### 6.3 percent, and businesses say they expect to 17 

### create 2,500 more jobs by 2016. 18

### Energy efficiency and renewable energy 19 

### comprise the bulk of Tennessee's clean energy 20 

### industry, though alternative transportation does 21 

### account for roughly 5,500 jobs, and about 70 2299

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### percent of renewable technology firms indicate 1 

### that solar is a primary technology. Bioenergy 2 

### and geothermal are close in seconds, to represent 3 

### a sizeable chunk of the business. 4 

### While nearly 80 percent of the clean 5 

### energy customers are within the state, 6 

### Tennessee's strong manufacturing center supports 7 

### the industry that is more export-driven than all 8 

### the other states when similar studies have been 9 

### conducted. Many clean energy businesses in 10 

### Tennessee, about 44 percent, support in-state 11 

### suppliers and vendors, while 49 percent source 12 

### their equipment outside the state. Clean energy 13 

### business demands public support to stimulate 14 

### consumption. Nearly one-third, about 32 percent, 15 

### of employer indicate that financial incentives 16 

### would best accelerate the adoption of clean 17 

### energy goods and services, and 26 percent of the 18 

### employer suggested regulations and standards. 19

### A recent poll by Harvard says that the 20 

### vast majority of Tennessee voters support the 21


### Clean Power Plan. 22100

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### The Clean Power Plan will clean up our 1 

### air and address climate disruption. It will also 2 

### modernize how we power our country and economy, 3 

### spurring innovation, and creating thousands of 4 

### jobs and billions of dollars in new investment. 5 

### I thank you, and as we say in Tennessee, 6 

### we sure do appreciate ya. 7 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 8 

### follow-up questions? 9 

### [No audible response.] 10

### MS. GETTLE: I want to remind you that if 11 

### you have an extra copy and you want to leave a 12 

### copy of your presentation with the court 13 

### reporter, she would appreciate that. 14

### The next two speakers are Suzanne 15 

### Smitherman and Aaron Pardieu. 16

### MS. SMITHERMAN: Hello. My name is 17 

### Suzanne Smitherman, S-u-z-a-n-n-e 18 

### S-m-i-t-h-e-r-m-a-n. And thank you for the work 19 

### that you do. Thank you for being here. 20

### I was born in Chattanooga in 1952. The 21 

### industrial city, as it does today, sat between 22101

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### the mountains. Growing up, we had air you could 1 

### see, smog you could smell. In the 1960s, in that 2 

### city, local leaders of vision and courage made 3 

### changes ahead of national requirements, and in 4 

### 1970, the year I graduated from high school, 5 

### Richard Nixon signed the first Clean Air Act, and 6 

### everybody's air began to look better, and smell 7


### better. 8 

### By the time I was an adult, my children 9 

### had better air to breathe than I had begun with. 10 

### Smog or visible pollution continues to decline, 11 

### but as many have said, we have a long way to go 12 

### and low-income neighborhoods suffer the most. We 13 

### are increasingly aware that greenhouse gasses 14 

### continue to increase and we need new regulations 15 

### for a new time. Our environmental laws are a 16 

### generation out of date. The Clean Air Act has 17 

### not been revised since 1990, a quarter of a 18 

### century. The decisions we make this year will 19 

### affect the air our children breathe, and those 20


### who come after them. 21

### Some environmental changes can be seen; 22102

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### others can be measured. If we have the courage 1 

### to look we can watch the ice melt; that can be 2 

### measured. Alaska and Greenland and Arctic ice 3 

### are melting away. God help us when they are 4



### gone. 5 

### When I graduated from high school in 6 

### 1970, the measured carbon dioxide was close to 7 

### 300 parts per million; that can be measured. 8 

### This month, the atmospheric carbon dioxide reach 9 

### an ominous 400 parts per million, and the levels 10 

### will increase and continue to rise exponentially 11


### unless we act now. 12

### So where are we going with this and why 13 

### do we care? On some days I'm glad that I won't 14 

### live to see the worst of it, as oxygen lowers and 15 

### ice melts and oceans warm and storms increase, 16 

### but this is not about me. I fear for my 17 

### grandchildren. I have watched one of them 18 

### struggle to breathe through her asthma attack and 19 

### I worry even more about my grandchildren's 20 

### grandchildren. What world will we leave for 21 

### them? As carbon gasses increase, will next 22103

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### generations have decent air to breathe? As the 1 

### ice melts, will they have a beach to walk on? 2 

### Will they ever see sand crabs or sea turtle 3 

### nests? As more species are lost, will they see 4 

### salamanders or Carolina bluebird? 5 

### Today we have options. We can do things 6 

### to give the next generations a better life. We 7 

### can make the hard decisions and courageous 8 

### actions that will leave them better air to 9 

### breathe. We can make changes in the Clean Air 10 

### Act now, and leave the world a better place, or 11 

### we can sit back and watch the world change until 12 

### it is too late -- to late to bring it back. 13

### Thank you. 14

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Mr. Pardieu. 15

### MR. PARDIEU: Hello, and thank you for 16 

### this opportunity to speak before you. My name is 17 

### Aaron Pardieu. That's A-a-r-o-n P-a-r-d-i-e-u. 18 

### I'm a volunteer member of the grassroots 19 

### organization, Kentuckians For The Commonwealth, 20 

### also known as KFTC. I'm a resident of 21 

### Louisville, Kentucky, and I've studied the issues 22104

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### faced by rural communities of the state 1 

### pertaining to the transition away from a coal2 

### based economy, especially in eastern Kentucky and 3 

### other parts of central Appalachia. 4 

### KFTC applauds the EPA and the Obama 5 

### administration for making a national step towards 6 

### acknowledging and addressing climate change and 7 

### the effects of carbon pollution. As seen 8 

### throughout the United States and other regions of 9 

### the globe, human-made climate change has the 10 

### largest and most adverse impacts on low-income 11 

### communities and communities of color. Flooding, 12 

### severe heat waves, exposure to air pollutants and 13 

### allergens, extreme weather events, and food 14 

### scarcity will all increase without bold 15 

### interventions, and these events will be felt 16 

### first by people that are the most marginalized by 17 

### our current economic and political systems. 18

### As Kentucky is likely to fall under a 19 

### Federal Implementation Plan, KFTC has grave 20 

### concerns about how possible model rules of cap 21 

### and trade, whether rate-based or mass-based, will 22105

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### impact front-line communities in both urban and 1 

### rural Kentucky. Meaningful efforts to address 2 

### climate change should prioritize principles of 3 

### environmental justice. It is our fear the 4 

### proposed cap and trade systems will allow big 5 

### polluters to continue endangering the health of 6 

### nearby communities. They are vulnerable to 7 

### corruption, fraud, and leakage. They can 8 

### incentivize deeply problematic approaches by 9 

### awarding credits or allowances for types of 10 

### energy generation or pollution offsets that are 11 

### neither safe nor clean. At worst, they are a way 12 

### of transferring wealth from rate-payers in 13 

### heavily polluted places to investors in utilities 14 

### who are creating new, clean energy jobs and 15 

### better health conditions outside of Kentucky. 16

### We also believe the EPA did not do an 17 

### adequate environmental justice analysis to 18 

### understand the impact of the proposed Federal 19 

### Implementation Plan and model pollution trading 20 

### plans on low-income and people of color 21 

### communities. Currently low-income and African 22106

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### American residents of west Louisville are 1 

### struggling to prevent the construction of 2 

### biomass-digesting methane plants in their 3 

### communities. These are communities where there's 4 

### already a lot of industrial pollution. In rural 5 

### regions of Kentucky, communities fear the 6 

### inevitable detriment of their safety and natural 7 

### water resources caused by natural gas drilling 8 

### and liquid gas pipelines as coal jobs continue to 9 

### climb. 10

### I urge the EPA to address these types of 11 

### scenarios as the Clean Power Plan is implemented 12 

### in the coming years, and prevent the FIP from 13 

### incentivizing such false solutions. Furthermore, 14 

### KFTC believes that FIP and model trading rules 15 

### are shockingly weak on energy efficiency and 16 

### should be strengthened. The proposed rate-based 17 

### Federal Implementation Plan should, but does not, 18 

### allow energy efficiency to generate emissions 19 

### reduction credits, with the narrow exception of 20 

### the Clean Energy Incentive Program. This is 21 

### troubling, especially since the very states 22107

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### requiring an FIP are also likely to have weak 1 

### energy efficiency policies of their own. By 2 

### disqualifying energy efficiency as a compliance 3 

### option under a rate-based FIP, the EPA is greatly 4 

### increasing the harm to rate-payers in non5 

### compliant states. 6 

### I urge the agency to significantly 7 

### increase the size of the renewable energy set 8 

### aside within the mass-based plans, and allow 9 

### energy efficiency projects to also qualify for 10 

### these allowance. Under no circumstances should 11 

### renewable energy allowances be restricted to 12 

### projects whose owners or operators are affected 13 

### fossil fuel generators. 14

### Any unused allowances from the renewable 15 

### energy set aside under an FIP should be auctioned 16 

### rather than given back to fossil fuel generators 17 

### for free. The revenue should be used to support 18 

### investments in a just transition for affected 19 

### workers and communities, as well as for energy 20 

### efficiency or renewable energy projects in low21 

### income communities. The EPA should strengthen 22108

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### worker protections and do more to support a just 1 

### transition for affected workers, especially in 2 

### communities of color and hard-hit coal 3 

### communities in eastern Kentucky. 4 

### Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 5 

### Being from Kentucky, we are very aware that our 6 

### state is one of the places most likely to fall 7 

### under a federal plan. I'm proud that the 8 

### grassroots organization, Kentuckians For The 9 

### Commonwealth, is working to engage people from 10 

### all walks of life to come up with a model state 11 

### plan. We believe it is possible to improve 12 

### health, create jobs, expand access to affordable 13 

### energy, and do our part to address climate 14 

### change. We hope that our process can help inform 15 

### the EPA's actions as well as decisions made 16 

### within our own state, and shape a transition to 17 

### brighter energy future in Kentucky. Although our 18 

### state government is likely to sue the EPA, 19 

### Kentuckians are not silent on this issue. 20

### Thank you. 21

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 22109

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### [No audible response.] 1 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. Our next 2 

### speaker is Lance Brown. It's just you, Mr. 3


### Brown. 4 

### MR. BROWN: I get it all to myself. 5


### MS. GETTLE: You do. 6 

### MR. BROWN: All right. My name is Lance 7 

### Brown. I'm with PACE. I live in Montgomery, 8 

### Alabama. Thank you for having these hearings. 9 

### In July of last year, I rose to represent the 10 

### concerns of more than 20 partners across the 11 

### Southeast. These included energy users, large 12 

### and small, who want to keep their lights on and 13 

### factory machines running at an affordable price. 14 

### We delivered the clear message that customers 15 

### nationwide will be affected negatively by the new 16 

### carbon regulations proposed by EPA. We have no 17 

### doubt that the rule will raise the price of 18 

### electricity, contrary to EPA's assertion. 19

### We argue, then, that the rule will make 20 

### the price of electricity more volatile by forcing 21 

### utilities to use more natural gas, and that the 22110

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### rule will establish winners and losers in the 1 

### energy marketplace. We asserted these points in 2 

### July of last year and we assert them again today. 3 

### We also pointed out things that the rule 4 

### would not do, and this is important. We included 5 

### in our remarks the testimony to Congress by EPA 6 

### Chief Gina McCarthy in September of 2013, that 7 

### the agency's regulation of carbon dioxide would 8 

### not cause any measureable change in the agency's 9 

### 26 indicators of climate change. Administrator 10 

### McCarthy, nor anyone else at EPA, has ever 11 

### produced any data for the American public that 12 

### shows what positive effect this new rule will 13 

### have on the agency's 26 climate indicators. 14 

### Isn't the core of any good piece of public policy 15 

### the prediction that it will have positive 16 

### empirical results? 17

### We asserted in July of last year that if 18 

### Americans truly realized that their government 19 

### was trading affordable power prices and a strong 20 

### and stable electricity portfolio only for 21 

### political leverage they would not support the 22111

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### rule. We predicted they would be angry and 1 

### disappointed and wondering why the Executive 2 

### Branch had made such a bad bargain. We've spent 3 

### the past year talking to energy users, and I can 4 

### tell you first-hand that all those feelings are 5 

### real. We said last year that the agency's carbon 6 

### rule would speed the closure of coal-fired plants 7 

### in the U.S., forcing another 114 gigawatts of 8 

### generation off the grid. 9 

### That's exactly what's happening. Look no 10 

### further than coal-fired power plants in Walker 11 

### and Mobile Counties in Alabama. Look no further 12 

### than coal miners laid off in Tuscaloosa County. 13 

### Meanwhile, the rest of the world will use U.S. 14 

### coal to produce more than six additional tons of 15 

### carbon for every one ton we reduce under this 16


### rule. 17

### We said it in July and we'll say it again 18 

### today -- the Earth's temperature is not going to 19 

### change because of this rule. The power bills 20 

### will. The EPA still has a chance to take a 21 

### sensible approach to climate policy and focus on 22112

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### more reasonable measures that deliver real 1 

### results. We implore you to do so. 2 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Mr. Brown. The 3 

### next speakers are Katherine Muller and Lisa 4 

### Raynor. 5 

### MS. MULLER: Good morning. My name is 6 

### Katherine Muller, M-u-l-l-e-r, and I fought 7 

### traffic through six lanes to get down here this 8 

### morning from Greenville, South Carolina. I 9 

### represent a small solar business called Inviro 10 

### Design and Consulting. We install residential 11 

### solar. We have energy- and water-efficiency 12 

### monitoring systems for commercial buildings. 13 

### Basically, we're out to reduce your energy use, 14 

### save you money, help the environment, help your 15 

### bottom line. It is all good. 16

### And guess what? I wear a lot of hats, 17 

### because unlike that lady who represents a big 18 

### association, I represent the backbone of America 19 

### -- small business. I am social media -- I might 20 

### take your picture -- I am sales and marketing, 21 

### and I am HR. Our company started off the year 22113

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### with about 5 people on the solar side. Solar is 1 

### booming in South Carolina. I don't really need 2 

### to look at any notes because I'm living this. In 3 

### the last 2 weeks we have hired 4 people. We will 4 

### hire another 3 to 8, and we're just a teeny-tiny 5 

### little company. We would have more except for 6 

### two things. We have to train people properly -- 7 

### we don't want to sacrifice quality -- and working 8 

### capital. Like any other business, we need money 9 

### to grow. 10

### So I guess I'm just trying to say please 11 

### -- you know, when I think about health of people 12 

### living around the power plants, asthma -- my dad 13 

### was a cardiologist and I have a preexisting 14 

### health condition myself. When I think about the 15 

### health of our planet and our future world and 16 

### climate change, which is at crisis level. Right 17 

### this very minute we're past 400 parts per 18 

### million. Coal is the dirtiest, most carbon19 

### intensive, polluting energy source. Why in the 20 

### world would we do anything to roll back progress? 21 

### Why would we do that when there is another way? 22114

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### And let me just tell you something. The 1 

### clean energy economy, it is not coming. It is 2 

### here, because our little company is experiencing 3 

### this. And when you give people an alternative, a 4 

### different way, people are clamoring for solar. 5 

### Our company is booked into the new year. We have 6 

### twice the business we can handle -- what an 7 

### awesome problem. There's not enough hours in the 8 

### day. My hair is white. 9 

### So I guess I'm just trying to say please 10 

### be stringent with these regulations. Don't roll 11 

### back progress, because there's no need. It's 12 

### interesting. Almost 40 years ago your former 13 

### governor here in the great state of Georgia, 14 

### former President, Jimmy Carter, humanitarian, 15 

### visionary, put solar panels on the White House, 16 

### the people's house in Washington. Now our 17 

### little, teeny-tiny company is putting solar 18 

### panels on our people's houses. So that is due to 19 

### a change in the law last year in South Carolina 20 

### which incentivized solar, made it more 21 

### affordable. Duke Energy in South Carolina is 22115

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### giving incentives. They're federal and state 1 

### incentives. 2 

### So people want clean, renewable energy. 3 

### Please do not do anything that would, in any way, 4 

### you know, reduce the stringency of these 5 

### regulations which are looking to the future, not 6 

### to a dirty, fossil fuel economy of the past. 7


### Let's look to the future. 8 

### Now, in my fantasy world -- complete 9 

### fantasy world -- Jimmy Carter would be here 10 

### today, or somebody in his family to say, "Hey, 40 11 

### years ago I put those panels on the White House. 12 

### Now let's keep looking to the future. Let's go 13 

### with a clean energy economy." 14

### Let me see if there's anything else I 15 

### want to tell you. I guess that's about as far as 16 

### I got in my notes. But really, I'm just asking 17 

### you to please think about the future, because, 18 

### again, the clean energy economy is here. We 19 

### don't need any new breakthrough in technology. 20 

### We just need the social, the political, and the 21 

### regulatory will to move forward. And there will 22116

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### be losers and winners in this new economy, just 1 

### like we went from horse and buggy to cars, and 2 

### people who made horse and buggies had to learn 3 

### how to make cars. Now, going forward, people 4 

### from coal-producing states are going to have to 5 

### come up with another way to make a living for the 6 

### benefit of everyone, because our world, we need 7 

### to regulate this dirty energy. 8 

### So, anyway, I think that's all I had to 9 

### say, and thank you very much. 10

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 11

### MS. RAYNOR: Hi. I'm Lisa Raynor and I'm 12 

### from Atlanta, Georgia, and being a native 13 

### Atlantan I knew to camp out here last night so I 14 

### wouldn't have to fight traffic to get down here. 15 

### We feel your pain. 16

### I'm here today on behalf of Mothers and 17 

### Others For Clean Air to testify in support of a 18 

### strong federal plan upon which to model plans, in 19 

### hopes of driving a shift to cleaner energy 20 

### sources that will, in turn, reduce as much 21 

### pollution as possible to protect our health. I 22117

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### am not an expert on climate change but I am a 1 

### mother of a child with asthma, and I've done my 2 

### homework. I know that climate change can harm 3 

### the health of us all through degraded air quality 4 

### and that the power plant pollution is a leading 5 

### cause of this problem. 6 

### I'd like to briefly share my story. It 7 

### begins in 2010, when my daughter Caroline and I 8 

### found ourselves in intensive care unit at 9 

### Children's Health Care of Atlanta for a week 10 

### while she received pure oxygen in hopes of 11 

### bringing her level up after she suffered a near12 

### fatal asthma attack. I remember feeling so 13 

### powerless as I sat in the hospital room wondering 14 

### if I was going to be able to take her home. 15

### It was an accumulation of many days of 16 

### missed work for me and school for her, because 17 

### she didn't have the lung capacity to breathe. 18 

### She couldn't walk, much less run, and because of 19 

### this she has spent many days at home, in bed, 20 

### because Atlanta's air quality is so bad that it 21 

### was dangerous for her to be outside. Even with 22118

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### her multitude of prescriptions it is not enough 1 

### to ensure her safety, and we still monitor the 2 

### days in order to be sure that she will not end up 3 

### in intensive care, needing oxygen, with her 4 

### oxygen level at 73. 5 

### This is why I support the Clean Power 6 

### Plan to reduce carbon and other pollutants that 7 

### cause asthma attacks, heart attacks, and 8 

### premature deaths. After almost losing my 9 

### daughter, I want to make sure we achieve the 10 

### EPA's health benefits of the Clean Power Plan in 11 

### order to prevent the over 3,500 premature deaths, 12 

### 90,000 asthma attacks, and avoiding 300,000 days 13 

### missed from work and school each year. 14

### The health benefits will only come as 15 

### states develop effective plans to meet the 16 

### requirements set out by the EPA and the Clean 17 

### Power Plan. Unfortunately, there will be some 18 

### states who refuse to comply. Therefore, it is 19 

### critical for the EPA to have a way to ensure 20 

### emissions reductions by taking action at the 21 

### federal level. It's important for you to know 22119

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### that we support the EPA's efforts to help states 1 

### develop and adopt effective plans that will 2 

### reduce carbon emissions using the emissions 3 

### standards set in the Clean Power Plan. In 4 

### addition, we support the EPA's commitment to 5 

### ensure that the reductions in carbon emissions 6 

### are real and not just apparent. This includes 7 

### providing the strongest possible tools for states 8 

### to use in the model plan. 9 

### I was asked to also mention the 10 

### importance of alternative energy sources, the 11 

### CEIP's early adoption of renewable energy, and 12 

### its energy efficiency for low-income communities. 13 

### But I'm going to leave these topics to those with 14 

### more experience in these areas. 15

### Today I come here as a mother, and behalf 16 

### of Mothers and Others For Clean Air, and on 17 

### behalf of my daughter Caroline, I appreciate your 18 

### time and the efforts you are taking to ensure 19 

### that the air we breathe is safe for us all. 20

### Thank you. 21

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 22120

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### I'll just remind you if you have a copy of your 1 

### presentation you can leave it with the court 2 

### reporter. 3 

### MS. RAYNOR: Thank you. 4 

### MS. GETTLE: The next speakers are Roger 5 

### Buerki and James Rust. Mr. Buerki? 6


### MR. BUERKI: Yes. 7 

### MS. GETTLE: You can begin. 8 

### MR. BUERKI: That's Roger Buerki, 9 

### B-u-e-r-k-i, and I'm not representing anyone 10 

### except myself, or maybe former river rats. The 11 

### subject today is both pollution, what's prudent, 12 

### what's practical, and what's political. And I 13 

### hope we all keep in mind that the bottom of all 14 

### of this is the political part. 15

### It's sort of analogous to insurance, what 16 

### we're doing here, and usually when you buy 17 

### insurance you're looking at the worst event you 18 

### can imagine, like death, and you look at the cost 19 

### to ensure against that, and you have to imagine 20 

### the cost if you don't. And I would volunteer 21 

### that the cost, if we don't take appropriate 22121

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### action, could be almost beyond imagination. 1 

### Now we have set some targets for Georgia 2 

### under this plan. I'm rather sad to see that the 3 

### target apparently was eased a bit. I think there 4 

### was a 32 percent reduction mentioned somewhere. 5 

### I wish it was more. I think we can easily do 6 

### more. But the solution is going to come from 7 

### actions by citizens, not by government. And in 8 

### that regard, citizens are going to have to rely 9 

### on media, not necessarily an agency, to solve 10 

### their problem, because the agencies respond to 11 

### the political process. The media generates 12 

### political interest. That's where action is going 13


### to come from. 14

### Agencies generally -- how to describe 15 

### this? I don't necessarily want to insult the 16 

### agency but generally staff has a pretty good idea 17 

### of what needs to be done, and then the plan goes 18 

### to their administrators, and the administrators 19 

### live in the political realm, and generally the 20 

### ideal plan gets watered-down to something that's 21 

### possible, let's say, politically possible. 22122

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### Now I started out here at age 29, in 1 

### 1970, discovering the Chattahoochee River and the 2 

### threat posed by a proposed sewer line that would 3 

### destroy the palisades on the Chattahoochee, and 4 

### rather than spending too much time considering 5 

### what was politically possible, I just decided we 6 

### needed to solve the problem, and we did. And the 7 

### end result was about $100 million in federal 8 

### investment in our clean water and recreation 9 

### resource on the river, and I would encourage the 10 

### agency and especially the citizenry to think less 11 

### about what's politically possible and more about 12 

### what really needs to be done. 13

### Now I've seen many reactions to the plan 14 

### from industry. The Chamber of Commerce, I would 15 

### have to remind everyone, is looking out for a 16 

### number. That number is number one. I suggest we 17 

### need to look out for our future, and we need to 18 

### hope that the media presents a balanced reaction 19 

### to this. I've noticed a recent editorial in the 20 

### paper that, frankly, had some statements that 21 

### were quite false, and I regret that there's this 22123

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### need to present balance when, in effect, one part 1 

### of this balance might be just totally false. 2 

### So once again I would hope that you're 3 

### looking at what needs to be done, and keep in 4 

### mind that it's your job, basically, to let us 5 

### know what needs to be done. You're the experts, 6 

### and hopefully you can get past fewer 7 

### administrators and let the public know what the 8 

### reality is. 9 

### Thank you. 10

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Mr. Rust. 11

### MR. RUST: My name is James Rust. It's 12 

### R-u-s-t. I'm a retired engineering professor 13 

### from Georgia Tech. I have over 50 years' 14 

### experience in energy production and energy 15 

### production and energy policy. I am a 16 

### representative for the Heartland Institute, of 17 

### which I am a volunteer worker. 18


### The events of the last week sort of 19 

### inspired me to come up with a way of presenting 20 

### this talk. On the 15th of November, France went 21 

### through a terror during the bombings that took 22124

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### place in Paris. If you go back in history to 1 

### 1898, France also had a moment of bad news then, 2 

### and Emile Zola, which I recall quite well, but 3 

### you people may not have heard of -- but he came 4 

### out with a newspaper editorial from the front 5 

### page of the largest newspaper in Paris called 6 

### "J'accuse." It was accusing the government of 7 

### France of railroading Alfred Dreyfus into prison 8 

### for espionage when he didn't do it. He did it 9 

### because he was Jewish. 10

### So I am coming up with this "J'accuse" 11 

### the Environmental Protection Agency of using 12 

### false scientific data to hobble our fossil fuel 13 

### industry. 14

### Let's look at the history. In 2008, 15 

### President Obama said the use of coal power plants 16 

### will bankrupt the companies. In 2009, in March, 17 

### a memo was sent to Richard Windsor, who you don't 18 

### know, but that's also known as Lisa Jackson, the 19 

### head of the EPA, and this is the most transparent 20 

### government in history, according to President 21 

### Obama. They had to fabricate a name so if 22125

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### somebody subpoenaed e-mails to Lisa Jackson this 1 

### would not come up. The memorandum said we're not 2 

### getting ahead on climate science by telling the 3 

### public about polar bears drowning, because they 4 

### don't have polar bears as pets. So we're going 5 

### to use asthma as a thing, that that's the 6 

### policies of eliminating fossil fuel use. 7 

### In 2010, President Obama had nothing 8 

### accomplished as far as restricting the use of 9 

### fossil fuels by legislative action, so he thought 10 

### of another way to skin the cat, and the skinning 11 

### the cat is being accomplished by EPA or so. In 12 

### 2011, the Mercury in Air Toxic Standards and 13 

### Cross-State Air Pollution Rules were implemented. 14 

### In 2012, Carbon Pollution Standards for Future 15 

### Power Plants was admitted. In 2014, the Clean 16 

### Power Plan we are talking about today was first 17 

### put forth. It was then amended last summer to 18 

### change the rule from 30 percent reduction in CO2 19 

### to 32 percent. 20

### EPA Administrator McCarthy said that the 21 

### Clean Power Plan will avoid 100,000 asthma 22126

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### attacks and 2,100 heart attacks annually. Now 1 

### what's look at what we know, then. U.S. 2 

### population from 1980 to 2014 increased 41 3 

### percent. Air quality -- and this is the EPA's 4 

### data -- air quality from a handful of pollutants 5 

### dropped 63 percent during that period. The 6 

### incidence of child asthma increased 131 percent. 7 

### So while our air is getting cleaner, asthma is 8 

### going up. Now what kind of sense does this make? 9 

### We have a lot of data about asthma. Eighty 10 

### percent of people having asthma also have 11 

### allergies -- dust mites, roaches, all kinds of 12 

### things like this. 13

### For the United States, 10.9 percent of 14 

### adults allegedly have asthma. In China, 2.1 15 

### percent have asthma. In Russia, 2.2 percent. 16 

### These are countries where the air is vastly 17 

### inferior to what we have here in the U.S. and 18 

### their asthma rates are way lower than ours. 19

### Global temperatures have not risen since 20 

### 1998, based on satellite data, and yet global 21 

### warming is being accused of causing all these 22127

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### problems that we have. NOAA and NASA have 1 

### fabricated, fudged data to say that this lack of 2 

### rise of temperature from satellite data did not 3 

### occur, that we have a rise. Congress is 4 

### investigating NOAA and asking them for their data 5 

### and their communications, and this organization 6 

### has denied. They say they're not going to 7 

### cooperate, while Congress -- you pay these 8 

### people's salaries. 9 

### Let's look at the economic consequences 10 

### of implementing the Clean Power Plan. The Black 11 

### Chamber of Commerce says the plan will increase 12 

### utility rates on average of $1,000 to $1,200 per 13 

### year by 2030. They think minority poverty rates 14 

### will be up 26 percent by 2030. The National 15 

### Economic Research Associates believes household 16 

### costs will be up $530 to $660 per year. This you 17 

### don't care about but the mineworkers also did a 18 

### study on this and came up with -- 19

### MS. GETTLE: Mr. Rust, your time has 20 

### expired. If you could wrap it up please. 21

### MR. RUST: Okay. 22128

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### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any questions? 1 

### [No audible response.] 2 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Thank you both. 3 

### I want to remind you that you can submit your 4 

### comments to the court reporter. 5 

### The next speakers are Dr. Anne Mellinger6 

### Birdsong and Hilary Merlin. 7 

### DR. MELLINGER-BIRDSONG: Hi. My name is 8 

### Anne Mellinger-Birdsong, M-e-l-l-i-n-g-e-r, dash, 9 

### B-i-r-d-s-o-n-g. I'm a pediatrician and 10 

### epidemiologist and a parent and I'm on the 11 

### leadership board of Mothers and Others for Clean 12 

### Air. I and my family live here in Atlanta. I'm 13 

### here today to testify in support of strong 14 

### federal plans that will help drive a shift to 15 

### cleaner energy sources, address climate change, 16 

### and reduce air pollution as much as possible to 17 

### protect public health, and especially the health 18 

### of children. 19

### I support the Clean Power Plan to reduce 20 

### carbon and other air pollutants that cause asthma 21 

### attacks, heart attacks, and premature death. I 22129

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### want to make sure we achieve the EPA's estimated 1 

### health benefits of the Clean Power Plan, which 2 

### include preventing up to 3,600 premature deaths, 3 

### 90,000 asthma attacks, and avoiding 300,000 days 4 

### missed from work and school each year. 5 

### The American Academy of Pediatrics has 6 

### stated "the Clean Power Plan is a welcome and 7 

### needed step to help make the air we breathe safer 8 

### and cleaner for children and for the 9 

### environment." As a public health professional, I 10 

### know that climate change can harm the health of 11 

### adults and children because it will cause more 12 

### air pollution, more wildfires, more drought, and 13


### extreme weather events. I also know that these 14 

### impacts worsen the burden that many in Georgia 15 

### already suffer. 16

### The American Academy of Pediatrics also 17 

### noted that "according to the World Health 18 

### Organization, more than 80 percent of the current 19 

### health burden due to the changing climate occurs 20 

### in children younger than 5 years old." Children 21 

### suffer from allergic and asthmatic diseases, the 22130

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### devastating effect of natural disasters, food and 1 

### water insecurity, and increased heat-related 2 

### deaths. Children also breathe faster than 3 

### adults, spend more time outside, and have lungs 4 

### that are still developing, making them 5 

### increasingly vulnerable to the environmental 6 

### effects of global climate change. 7 

### These health benefits will happen only if 8 

### states develop effective plans to meet the 9 

### requirements set out by EPA in the Clean Power 10 

### Plan. It is critical that EPA have a way to 11 

### ensure emissions reductions by taking action at 12


### the federal level for states that refuse to 13 

### comply. Analyses by EPA, Harvard, and others 14 

### show that reducing carbon emissions will also 15 

### reduce other air pollution coming from power 16 

### plants. This will especially benefit children 17 

### whose lungs are still growing and whose lung 18 

### development can be damaged by air pollution, and 19 

### it will particularly help children with asthma 20 

### and other respiratory diseases. 21

### The Clean Power Plan will also benefit 22131

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### people who live in low-income communities who 1 

### have disproportionately suffered the burdens of 2 

### pollution from coal-fired power plants. People 3 

### who live near these plants have breathed more 4 

### concentrated pollution, including toxins such as 5 

### arsenic, lead, and mercury, and carcinogens like 6 

### benzene. Low-income communities will also suffer 7 

### more from climate change. Research documents 8 

### that air pollution harms poorer people more than 9 

### those with higher incomes, in part because people 10 

### who are poor are more likely to have diseases 11 

### like asthma that increase risk from air 12 

### pollution. 13

### In summary, the Clean Power Plan is a 14 

### really brilliant public policy that will benefit 15 

### public health, especially for children and people 16 

### who live in low-income communities. It is 17 

### crucial that EPA have the tools and resources it 18 

### needs to ensure that it is implemented well. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 21

### [No audible response.] 22132

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### MS. GETTLE: All right. Ms. Merlin. 1 

### MS. MERLIN: Hi. I'm Hilary Merlin, 2 

### H-i-l-a-r-y M-e-r-l-i-n. My name is Hilary 3 

### Merline and I'm from Decatur, Georgia. I'm a 4 

### public health professional, and the Georgia field 5 

### organizer for Mothers and Others for Clean Air, 6 

### and I'm also the mother of two young children, 7 

### and I'm also here today to testify in support of 8 

### strong federal and model Clean Power Plan rules 9 

### that will help drive a shift to cleaner energy 10 

### sources, reduce air pollution, and mitigate 11 

### climate change. 12

### Because both my 7-year-old daughter and 13 

### my 70-year-old mother have asthma, this issue is 14 

### personal to me. When I read that the estimated 15 

### health benefits of the Clean Power Plan include 16 

### 90,000 fewer asthma exacerbations and 300,000 17 

### fewer missed days of work and school each year, I 18 

### think of my daughter who has spent many nights 19 

### awake, coughing instead of sleeping. 20

### I think of the mornings that we've had to 21 

### decide between keeping her home or sending her to 22133

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### school without a good night's sleep. And I think 1 

### of how different our lives would be if the air 2 

### were always healthy for my children, for all 3 

### children to breathe. 4 

### I believe that the Clean Power Plan is a 5 

### critical part of solving the interwoven public 6 

### health problems of air pollution and climate 7 

### change. I believe that the quality of my 8 

### children's lives is dependent on the transition 9 

### from fossil fuels to renewable sources of energy. 10

### I am hopeful that Georgia will do its 11 

### part and develop an effective state plan, with 12 

### the guidance of a strong model plan, but I'm also 13


### concerned that some of our state's leaders won't 14 

### put our children's health first. If that should 15 

### be the case, the Federal Implementation Plan 16 

### becomes extremely relevant to me and my family. 17

### It's critical that both plans maximize 18 

### the potential of renewable energy, specifically 19 

### solar and wind. The Clean Energy Incentive 20 

### Program should be a standard rather than option, 21 

### element in the final model plan. It's critical 22134

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### that both plans have measure to ensure that 1 

### reductions in carbon emissions are real and not 2 

### due to leakage. It's critical that the plans 3 

### avoid encouraging the sue of biomass and nuclear 4 

### energy sources, as they both pose threats to 5


### human health. 6 

### The Clean Power Plan holds great 7 

### potential to meaningfully protect public health. 8 

### I urge the EPA to communicate to states, through 9 

### both the Federal Implementation Plan and the 10 

### model rule, the best practices for reducing 11 

### carbon emissions in order to maximize the health 12 

### benefits. 13

### When it comes to the air we breathe and 14 

### the climate we live in, the stakes are too high 15 

### to do anything other than our best. So on behalf 16 

### of my mother and my daughter, and all the other 17 

### children and older adults who really need clean 18 

### air and clean power, thank you. 19

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 20

### [No audible response.] 21

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you both, and I'll 22135

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### remind you that if you want to leave a copy. Our 1 

### next speakers are Gerald Durley and Daniel 2


### Blackman. 3 

### DR. DURLEY: Good morning. My name and 4 

### title is Reverend Doctor Gerald Durley, Pastor 5 

### Emeritus of Providence Missionary Baptist Church 6 

### in the city of Atlanta, Georgia. I'm also a 7 

### national board member of Interfaith Power and 8 

### Light and a 2015 White House recipient of the 9 

### Champion of Change Award, challenging the efforts 10 

### of climate change. I'm grateful for the 11 

### opportunity afforded me to share my thoughts, 12 

### feelings, and concerns in support of the Clean 13


### Power Plan. 14

### I have been fighting for the civil and 15 

### human rights for all Americans for 55 years, and 16 

### I'm thoroughly convinced that climate change and 17 

### global warming are the civil, human, and moral 18 

### issues of our time. Climate change is an equal 19 

### opportunity destroyer, regardless of race, creed, 20 

### color, nationality. Climate change and global 21 

### warming are real in the specific communities 22136

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### which I serve, which are experiencing and feeding 1 

### the devastating disproportionate and negative 2 

### impact more than affluent communities. Rising 3 

### temperatures and the increased levels of carbon 4 

### in the environment have caused asthmatic rates to 5 

### soar among our children, while the elderly are 6 

### suffering from deadly heat waves. 7 

### It is regrettable that climate and 8 

### weather disasters have cost the American economy 9 

### more than $100 billion. Science has concluded 10 

### that the high levels of carbon emitted into the 11 

### environment is caused by various sources. 12 

### However, the largest polluters are power plants, 13 

### which account for roughly one-third of all 14 

### domestic greenhouse gas emissions. The world and 15 

### America are at a critical tipping, no-return 16 

### point, to prevent the destruction of human, 17 

### animal, and plant life caused by climate 18 

### upheavals. The Clean Power Plan is by far the 19 

### most comprehensive and visible and viable option 20 

### proposed to cut carbon pollution by 25 percent in 21


### 2030. 22137

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### I'm strongly encouraged that the Clean 1 

### Power Plan must review closely other health and 2 

### environmental conditions around nuclear plants in 3 

### low-income and minority communities, even though 4 

### their carbon emission levels are minimal when 5 

### online. I understand that those opposed to the 6


### Clean Power Plan are concerned about the return 7 

### on their investment. I'm not opposed to anybody 8 

### making a dollar or two. I realize that's the way 9 

### the American way is, but not at the expense of 10 

### human life and environmental instability. 11

### The Clean Power Plan, when implemented, 12 

### will produce climate and health benefits 13 

### estimated between $55 billion and $93 billion in 14 

### 2013 [sic], and avoiding close to 6,000 premature 15 

### deaths, and 140,000 to 150,000 asthmatic attacks 16 

### among children. The Clean Power Plan will not 17 

### create economic burdens or financial hardships on 18 

### low-income or minority communities as some of our 19 

### opponents have articulated. Our health -- black 20 

### folks' health, minority, low-income folks' health 21 

### -- is more important than the cost of what it 22138

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### would take to curb carbon emissions. 1 

### The world is currently under attack by 2 

### terrorists. Can America afford to be quietly 3 

### guilty of being called terrorists against the 4 

### environment, by denying that climate change and 5 

### global warming are not killing us at an alarming 6 

### rate? Our inactions by not speaking up and out 7 

### are terroristic threats for a healthy 8 

### environment. 9 

### The interfaith community today joins 10 

### forces with scientists, educators, business 11 

### persons, and politicians to support and endorse 12 

### the Clean Power Plan. The 190 nations at the 13 

### COP21 conference needs to witness the United 14 

### States of America united and taking a bold stance 15 

### for life by supporting the Clean Power Plan. 16

### Why am I here? I believe that all life 17 

### matters. Thank you. 18

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you, sir. Any follow19 

### up? 20

### [No audible response.] 21

### MS. GETTLE: Okay. Mr. Blackman. 22139

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### MR. BLACKMAN: Do I have to follow 1 

### Reverend Durley? And I'm probably standing 2 

### between lunch for some people. I'll try and keep 3 

### my comments as brief as possible. 4 

### I want to first thank you all for being 5 

### here. The last time I had a chance to testify -- 6 

### and it's Daniel Blackman; Blackman is 7 

### B-l-a-c-k-m-a-n -- and the last time that I had a 8 

### chance to testify was the Democratic nominee for 9 

### the Public Service Commission of the state of 10 

### Georgia. But I am a business owner in Georgia. 11 

### I own a company that's a human rights and civil 12 

### rights organization that focuses specifically on 13 

### global issues such as human trafficking and 14 

### climate change, and it's a pleasure to be here 15 

### today, to be able to speak to you. 16

### One of the privilege I had running for 17 

### the Public Service Commission was the fact that 18 

### Georgia uniquely has 159 counties, so I was able 19 

### to at least campaign and/or travel in about 90 of 20 

### those counties and to really travel throughout 21 

### the state gave me more of a perspective, though I 22140

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### already was in support of the plan. It gave me 1 

### more of a perspective in how it affects our rural 2 

### communities. Today I'll talk specifically about 3 

### that. We've heard a lot of numbers, we've heard 4 

### arguments on both sides, and I'll limit by 5 

### comments kind of to follow up off of what 6 

### Reverend Durley said, but from the moral or 7 

### personal perspective on how it impacts 8 

### communities, especially low-income and 9 

### communities of color. 10

### We recently had one of our Public Service 11 

### commissioners make a comment that I found 12 

### disheartening, which was the President made a 13 

### statement in regards to the Clean Power Plan that 14 

### says that taking a stand against climate change 15 

### is a moral obligation, and I whole-heartedly 16 

### agree. The commissioner, which I won't name, but 17 

### the commissioner said that he thought it was 18 

### laughable that the President would say that moral 19 

### obligation to Clean Power Plan had anything to 20 

### do. And I had to go to Rome, Italy, this past 21 

### year, to attend a climate march and hear the 22141

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### Pope's remarks on climate. And to be with over 1 

### 65 other nations and to really see the impact, 2 

### globally, of what it had, made me take more of a 3 

### perspective and have more ownership right here in 4 

### my state of Georgia. 5 

### So what I want to talk about today, and 6 

### I'll try and sum this up in 2 minutes, is first 7 

### and foremost applauding the EPA for the step 8 

### forward in integrating environmental justice and 9 

### rulemaking by opening the door to community 10 

### through participation throughout the process. 11 

### There are almost 2 million people in the state of 12 

### Georgia that are living at or below the poverty 13 

### line, so for those men and women that live in 14 

### rural areas throughout the state, that are not 15 

### given the opportunity because of their 16 

### obligations to work or to their family to be here 17 

### and to speak on their behalf, is very important 18 

### to me that their concerns and their ability, 19 

### through this plan, to have an opportunity to work 20 

### and for new industries to be created, that's very 21 

### important for me. 22142

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### And I want to also say that environmental 1 

### justice is grounded on the core principle that 2 

### all people, regardless of ethnic background and 3 

### class, deserve to live and work in environments 4 

### free of toxic contamination. But unfortunately, 5 

### many working class communities of color continue 6 

### to be sickened and denied by the right to 7 

### environmental justice, due to failed policies. I 8 

### believe a young lady just came up and said that 9 

### we're decades overdue with creating a new plan, 10 

### and I agree with what she's saying, but also the 11 

### inability of local, regional, and national 12 

### leaders to stand up for our health and the well13 

### being of future generations, as the country moves 14 

### forward on reducing coal emissions. 15

### This is important to me because my 16 

### grandfather was a diplomat to the United Nations 17 

### around the time that they gave their definition 18 

### of sustainable development, which was the ability 19 

### to meet the needs of the present without 20 

### compromising future generations to meet their own 21 

### needs. And for me it's very important that the 22143

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### decisions we make today have a profound impact on 1 

### generations to come. 2 

### In closing, I want to re-emphasize that 3 

### the Clean Power Plan is an important step in 4 

### reducing carbon emissions and avoiding the worst 5 

### impacts of climate change. I believe this plan 6 

### is in the best interest of my state and it can 7 

### secure, quality, family-sustained jobs, it can 8 

### provide opportunities for disproportionately 9 

### affected communities, and encourage investments 10 

### and economic growth. 11

### We already heard about the 20,000 jobs 12 

### created so I won't go back over those numbers. 13 

### But Georgia is well in position to take the lead 14 

### on many of these efforts, and with my support 15 

### today I'll end my comments there because I want 16 

### to respectful of time and the other speakers. 17 

### But I strongly am in support and would hope that 18 

### we take into consideration those who are not able 19 

### to come before you today and speak. 20

### Thank you. 21

### MR. DURSEY: That's called passing the 22144

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### torch. My former student. I like it. 1 

### MS. GETTLE: Do you have any follow-up? 2 

### [No audible response.] 3 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. We 4 

### have two more speakers before we break, Ann Blair 5 

### and Patrick Cagle. 6 

### [Pause.] 7 

### MS. GETTLE: Is Ann Blair in the room? 8 

### ATTENDEE: [Inaudible comment.] 9 

### MS. GETTLE: Okay. Thank you. Mr. 10 

### Cagle. 11

### MR. CAGLE: Thank you. My name is 12 

### Patrick Cagle. The last name is C-a-g-l-e. I'm 13 

### Executive Director of a group called JobKeeper 14 

### Alliance, which is a nonprofit partnership 15 

### created between the business and labor community. 16 

### Our mission is to create and protect quality jobs 17 

### throughout the Southeast. These are high-paying, 18 

### middle-class jobs. A lot of them are in the coal 19 

### industry and the energy industry. These are jobs 20 

### that can't easily be replaced. 21

### Today's hearing is intended to gather 22145

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### public input on the proposed federal plan for 1 

### compliance with the Clean Power Plan. When 2 

### discussing this federal plan, it's important to 3 

### keep in mind what it is and how it will be used. 4 

### States that choose not to adopt a state 5 

### implementation plan will be forced to follow this 6 

### federal plan. 7 

### The majority of elected officials and 8 

### regulators in the states that my organization 9 

### works in are strongly opposed to EPA's costly and 10 

### job-killing carbon regulations. These are the 11 

### states that are most likely not to develop a 12 

### state implementation plan and as a result will be 13 

### required to comply with this federal plan. 14

### Elected officials in states that do not 15


### embrace the Clean Power Plan are sure to be 16 

### chastised by environmental groups like Sierra 17 

### Club, the Southern Environmental Law Center, and 18 

### the Southern Alliance For Clean Energy, and their 19 

### vast network of regional and local partners, many 20 

### of whom are present at today's hearing. Unknown 21 

### to the citizens that these groups seek to 22146

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### influence, these environmental groups are part of 1 

### a highly organized network that receives millions 2 

### of dollars annually from the San Francisco-based 3 

### Energy Foundation, to help advance their energy 4 

### agenda. 5 

### By giving grants to hundreds of 6 

### environmental groups across the country that work 7 

### on the same issue and use the same talking 8 

### points, the Energy Foundation has created an echo 9 

### chamber that magnifies their message. In fact, 10 

### the majority of the groups scheduled to testify 11 

### at today's hearing received funding from the 12 

### Energy Foundation, and as we've heard over and 13 

### over, many seem to be speaking -- using the same 14 

### talking points, basically speaking from the same 15 

### script. 16

### In spite of the talking points you may 17 

### hear, elected officials and state regulators who 18 

### oppose the Clean Power Plan are not fighting 19 

### against clean air or carrying the water for 20 

### corporate interests. They're supporting the 21 

### well-being of their constituents. They're 22147

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### standing up for the men and women whose jobs are 1 

### in jeopardy and the families that can't afford to 2 

### pay higher utility bills. Rather than focusing 3 

### solely on the details of the federal plan, EPA 4 

### needs to address the unanswered concerns voiced 5 

### by the states that are not embracing the 6 

### regulation of carbon. 7 

### EPA can start by addressing the following 8 

### questions and concerns. First is, what is the 9 

### true cost of regulating carbon, when you add up 10 

### the high-paying jobs that will be lost as a 11 

### result of jobs lost in the coal industry and 12 

### shuttered power plants, as well as the 13 

### manufacturing jobs that will be lost and 14 

### outsourced as a result of higher energy costs. 15 

### The gain in renewable energy jobs created by the 16 

### Clean Power Plan cannot come close to offsetting 17 

### the substantial job losses it will cost. The 18 

### costs must fully be considered before the cost 19 

### and benefits can accurately be measured against 20


### each other. 21

### The next question that needs to be 22148

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### answered is, how can EPA reasonably claim that 1 

### the average family's power bill will actually be 2 

### 7 percent lower by 2030 when numerous studies 3 

### predict double-digit increases in residential 4 

### electricity cost as a result of the Clean Power 5 

### Plan? While energy efficiency programs are a 6 

### useful tool to allow customers to control their 7 

### own energy usage, it's not a magic solution, it's 8 

### not free, and no cost-effective program can ever 9 

### provide energy efficiency upgrades for all 10


### households. 11

### EPA needs to acknowledge the reality that 12 

### no energy efficiency program will reach every 13 

### household, and therefore should provide a range 14 

### of different realistic scenarios based on 15 

### different housing situations and income levels. 16 

### EPA knows that the majority of middle-income 17 

### households will not benefit from most energy 18 

### efficiency programs and will see their energy 19 

### bills go up, not down, as a result of the Clean 20


### Power Plan. 21

### Finally, EPA needs to accurately address 22149

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### the concerns of states that are worried about the 1 

### future reliability of the power grid in their 2 

### state. Many states will face reliability issues 3 

### and EPA should not ignore this fact. 4 

### EPA's proposed federal plan is not a 5 

### solution to the underlying problem but rather a 6 

### way to mask it. No state will be subjected to 7 

### the federal plan by choice but rather as a result 8 

### of lack of choice. States don't have flexibility 9 

### when there are no reasonable options on the 10 

### table. Many states see their only option to 11 

### avoiding harming their citizens is to do nothing 12 

### and hope for a legal victory. If EPA wants to 13 

### convince skeptical state leaders to develop their 14 

### own implementation plan, they can start by 15 

### responding to their concerns and answering their 16 

### questions, and then offering then reasonable 17 

### options to comply with the Clean Power Plan. 18

### Thank you. 19

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Is there any 20 

### follow-up? 21

### [No audible response.] 22150

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### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. 1 

### At this time we will take a short break 2 

### in the hearing for lunch and we will start back 3 

### at 1:15 in this room. Thank you all very much. 4 

### [Lunch break taken from 12:25 to 1:36 5 

### p.m.] 6 

### Afternoon Session 7 

### MS. KEMPER: Good afternoon. My name is 8 

### Carol Kemper and I'm Deputy Director here at EPA 9 

### Region 4 for the Air, Pesticides, and Toxics 10 

### Management Division, and I am the chair of 11 

### today's public hearing, this afternoon's session. 12 

### Thank you all for coming. 13

### Joining me on the panel today are Colin 14 

### Boswell -- he is with our Energy Strategies out 15 

### of our Office of Air Quality Planning and 16 

### Standards, one of our headquarters offices -- and 17 

### Dr. Ken Mitchell, who is our Region 4 Clean Power 18 

### Plan team lead. We're also joined by Ashleigh 19 

### Simmons, our court reporter, who will be taking 20 

### down all of the public comments today. 21

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 22151

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### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 1 

### or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 2 

### the U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. 3 

### Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 4 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 5 

### climate change and providing a more certain 6 

### future for our environment, our health, and 7 

### future generations. 8 

### We are here today to listen to your 9 

### comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 10 

### model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 11 

### Existing Power Plants. 12

### On October 23, 2015, the Environmental 13 

### Protection Agency published, in the Federal 14 

### Register, its proposed federal plan to implement 15 

### emission guidelines for power plants under 16 

### Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 17 

### 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 18 

### effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 19 

### affected power plants that began construction on 20 

### or before January 8, 2014. 21

### The federal plan and model trading rules 22152

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### demonstrate a readily available path forward for 1 

### Clean Power Plan implementation, and presents 2 

### flexible, affordable implementation options for 3 

### states. The model rules provide a cost-effective 4 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 5 

### the EPA and make it easy for states and power 6 

### plants to use emissions trading. It does the 7 

### heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 8 

### model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 9 

### implement the federal plan in any state that does 10 

### not submit an approvable plan. 11

### This proposal includes four discrete 12 

### proposed actions: (1) a rate-based federal plan 13 

### for each state with affected EGUs, or electric 14 

### generating units; (2) a mass-based federal plan 15 

### for each state with affected EGUs; (3) a rate16 

### based model trading rule for potential use by any 17 

### state; and (4) a mass-based model trading rule 18 

### for potential use by any state. 19

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 20 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 21 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 22153

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### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 1 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 2 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 3 

### 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 4 

### in the emission guidelines. 5 

### In those states where a federal plan may 6 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 7 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 8 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 9 

### would not require additional control requirements 10 

### or impose additional costs. Even where a federal 11 

### plan is put in place for a particular state, that 12 

### state will still be able to submit a plan which, 13 

### if approved, will allow the state and its sources 14 

### to exit the federal plan. 15

### States may take delegation of 16 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 17 

### order to become the primary implementers, or 18 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 19 

### the implementation of a portion of the federal 20 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 21 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 22154

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### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 1 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 2 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 3 

### for those states that are developing their own 4 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 5 

### the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 6 

### in the summer of 2016. A state program that 7 

### adheres to the model trading rule provisions 8 

### specified in this rulemaking, when final, would 9 

### be presumptively approvable. 10

### There are stand-alone portions of the 11 

### model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 12 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 13 

### emission rate credits, or ERCs, that would be 14 

### approvable even if a state adopted an approach 15 

### that differs in other respects from the model 16


### rule. 17

### In addition, the proposal contains a 18 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 19 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 20 

### affected EGUs located in Indian country. CO2 21 

### emission performance rates for these facilities 22155

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### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. Also in 1 

### the proposal is information on how the EPA will 2 

### reach out to communities throughout the comment 3 

### period and an overview of the actions that EPA is 4 

### taking to ensure that vulnerable communities are 5 

### not being disproportionately impacted by this 6 

### rulemaking. 7 

### If you would like more details on the 8 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 9 

### the registration desk, just outside this room. 10

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 11 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 12 

### that will help to make today's hearing run 13 

### smoothly. First, please be sure you've checked 14 

### in at the registration desk, even if you are not 15 

### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 16 

### speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 17 

### you are here, please step out to the registration 18 

### desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 19 

### arrived. 20

### I will call speakers up in pairs. When 21 

### your name is called, please come to the speakers' 22156

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### table at the front of the room. When I call on 1 

### you to speak, please state your name, and spell 2 

### both your first name and your last name for the 3 

### court reporter. Your comments will be 4 

### transcribed and included in the record of 5 

### comments on the proposed rule. 6 

### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 7 

### comments. We have a timer light to help you know 8 

### how much time you have left to speak. When the 9 

### light turns from green to yellow, that means you 10 

### have 1 minute remaining. When it turns red, 11 

### that's a signal that your 5 minutes are up, and 12 

### it is time to stop. When you are finished 13 

### speaking, please remain at the table until the 14 

### person next to you has also completed his or her 15 

### testimony. 16

### We are here to listen to you today. 17 

### However, a panel member may ask questions to 18 

### clarify your comments. 19

### I will then call up the next pair of 20 

### speakers, and so on, until we've completed this 21 

### time period. If you've brought a copy of your 22157

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### written testimony, please give that to the court 1 

### reporter or the staff at the registration desk 2 

### before you leave today. We will put any written 3 

### comments submitted today in the official docket 4 

### for the proposed rule. 5 

### We also have comment cards available at 6 

### the registration desk. If you would like to 7 

### submit additional written comments today, please 8 

### see the folks at the registration desk. If you 9 

### want to comment in writing later, stop by the 10 

### materials table near the registration desk and 11 

### pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 12 

### written comments. Comments must be received by 13 

### January 21, 2016. 14

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 15 

### much consideration to comments we receive in 16 

### writing as we do to comments we receive at public 17 

### hearings like this one. So if you have more 18 

### comments that you would like to provided the EPA, 19 

### please submit them by the comment period 20 

### deadline. All comments will be reviewed. 21

### If you have any questions during the day, 22158

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### please see the staff at the registration desk, 1 

### and someone will assist you. 2 

### Thank you again for taking the time today 3 

### to share your comments on EPA's proposal. Let's 4 

### get started. 5 

### Our first two speakers are Dr. Roby 6 

### Greenwald and Laura Seydel. 7 

### DR. GREENWALD: Thank you. My name is 8 

### Roby Greenwald. That's R-o-b-y 9 

### G-r-e-e-n-w-a-l-d. I am an assistant professor 10 

### at the School of Public Health at Georgia State 11 

### University here in Atlanta, and I'd like to thank 12 

### you for having me here to make these brief 13


### comments. 14

### I would start by explaining why I think 15 

### that the issue of climate change is such an 16 

### important issue for us to address in any ways 17 

### that we possibly can, and I will say this from 18 

### the perspective of someone who has spent a career 19 

### studying, either directly or indirectly, issues 20 

### related to climate change. 21

### There are a number of reasons why I 22159

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### think, and in my opinion, that there's a very 1 

### high probability that issues related to climate 2 

### change are going to be the number one public 3 

### health issue of the 21st century. This is 4 

### related to changes in not just the temperature 5 

### but changes in sea level worldwide, as well as 6 

### changes in things related to food security. 7 

### Changes related to temperature, of 8 

### course, result in heat stress and current model 9 

### predictions suggest that changes in heat stress 10 

### by mid-century will increase the number of 11 

### mortalities and the amount of morbidity related 12 

### to heat stress worldwide, including specifically 13 

### in places in the tropics, but as well as areas 14 

### such as the Southeast United States, where we 15 

### happen to live. That directly concerns me for 16 

### the sake of my children, who will be reaching 17 

### adulthood and reaching their senior years about 18 

### the time that the maximum amounts of changes in 19 

### temperature will be occurring. 20

### In addition, these changes in temperature 21 

### will affect food security and that will result in 22160

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### additional hardship to millions of people 1 

### worldwide, and this is going to result in a great 2 

### deal of unpredictable events that we just have no 3 

### way of even speculating about now. The changes 4 

### in human behavior related to things like changes 5 

### in their ability to sustain life are, by their 6 

### very nature, difficult to predict but they will 7 

### almost certainly be negative. 8 

### In addition, there will be changes in the 9 

### amount of inhabitable land around the world, due 10 

### to changes in sea level, and this is going to 11 

### result, almost certainly, in mass migrations, and 12 

### as the events of the last couple of weeks have 13 

### shown us, this is very, very difficult to predict 14 

### exactly how mass migrations will play out in real 15 

### time, and this is, again, almost certain to be a 16 

### very negative event for future human populations. 17

### For this reason I believe it is very, 18 

### very important for us to address, in every 19 

### possible way, any steps we can take to reduce the 20 

### maximum amount of temperature change that will 21 

### occur in the future decades and centuries. 22161

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### I want to make a couple of comments 1 

### specifically about the proposed rule, since that 2 

### is what this hearing is actually about. My first 3 

### comment would be I applaud the EPA for taking 4 

### whatever steps they have available to them now 5 

### under existing legislation, and the Executive 6 

### Branch has limited authority to actually 7 

### implement changes right now but under the 8 

### existing Clean Air Act you're making the maximum 9 

### amount of effort that you actually can to reduce 10 

### carbon emissions that will directly lead to 11 

### changes in the temperature. 12

### At the same time, however, I recognize 13 

### the fact that to truly address this issue we need 14 

### to take additional steps that would require 15 

### additional legislation to give authority to not 16 

### just the EPA but to the Executive Branch in 17 

### general, to implement changes to reduce emissions 18 

### for us as a nation. I believe it's very 19 

### important that the United States be very 20 

### proactive about this, as the world's largest 21 

### economy, and one of the steps that we take will 22162

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### be reflected by changes that other countries will 1 

### make, and this will lead to a global effort to 2 

### actually reduce emissions that will have a 3 

### maximum reduction in the amount of temperature 4 

### that will take place. 5 

### I specifically applaud EPA's plan that we 6 

### have here to address the issue of some states 7 

### being more reluctant than others to comply with 8 

### this plan. I will keep my comments brief to that 9 

### point and say that I fully support this plan and 10 

### I hope we have additional action in the future to 11 

### reduce carbon emissions for the United States. 12

### Thank you. 13

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. One thing that I 14 

### would encourage. I believe you referenced some 15 

### studies, and to the extent that you can submit to 16 

### us links or references to those studies in print 17 

### and comments would be helpful. 18

### DR. GREENWALD: Absolutely. No problem. 19

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Any questions? 20

### [No audible response.] 21

### MS. SEYDEL: Hi. I'm Laura Seydel. 22163

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### That's L-a-u-r-a S-e-y-d-e-l, and on behalf of 1 

### Mothers and Others For Clean Air, an official 2 

### program of the American Lung Association of the 3 

### Southeast, I'm delighted to be here today to 4


### comment on the Clean Power Plan. 5 

### We support strong federal and model plans 6 

### that will protect public health by reducing 7 

### carbon pollution from power plants. I co-founded 8 

### Mothers and Others For Clean Air over 10 years 9 

### ago. Our mission is to advocate for policies 10 

### that protect children from breathing contaminated 11 

### air. We are especially concerned about carbon 12 

### pollution and the threats that it poses to 13 

### children's well-being, threats such as extreme 14 

### weather events, increased ground-level ozone, 15 

### spread of infections diseases, and food and water 16 

### insecurity. 17

### The American Academy of Pediatrics just 18 

### issued a new policy statement on climate change, 19 

### asserting that children are particularly 20 

### vulnerable to the effects of climate change and 21 

### that "failure to take prompt, substantive action 22164

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### would be an act of injustice to all children." 1 

### We support EPA's effort to help states 2 

### develop and adopt effective plans to reduce their 3 

### carbon emissions and strongly support the 4 

### inclusion of the Clean Energy Incentive Program, 5 

### and this should be a standard element in the 6 

### final model plan. The early adoption of energy 7 

### efficiency and renewable energy should be the 8 

### gold standard for states. All states should be 9 

### encouraged to start investing now in the clean 10 

### renewable energy sources of wind and solar. Both 11 

### wind and solar are fully capable of adding great 12 

### capacity to our energy supply without adding 13 

### additional pollution to the air that we breathe. 14

### Low-income communities have been 15 

### disproportionately impacted by pollution from 16 

### coal-fired power plants. Also, low-income 17 

### households spend a much larger percentage of 18 

### their household income on energy compared to 19 

### moderate- and higher-income households. We 20 

### strongly support the Clean Energy Incentive 21 

### Program's focus on energy efficiency improvements 22165

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### in low-income communities. 1 

### We also want to express opposition to the 2 

### burning of biomass or waste to produce 3 

### electricity, and I do not believe they have a 4 

### place in the model rule. Burning biomass 5 

### releases harmful pollutants such as particulate 6 

### matter and air toxins. We appreciate the Federal 7 

### Implementation Plan would not allow these fuel 8 

### options and we encourage EPA to strengthen the 9 

### model rule to eliminate them as well. 10


### On behalf of Mothers and Others For Clean 11 

### Air, I urge EPA to communicate to states, through 12 

### both the Federal Implementation Plan and the 13 

### model rule, that they should rely on the cleanest 14 

### alternative energy sources available to fulfill 15 

### the mission of the Clean Power Plan. 16

### Thank you. 17

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Questions from 18 

### the panel? 19

### [No audible response.] 20

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 21

### We will pause for a moment until we have 22166

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### additional names. 1 

### [Pause.] 2 

### MS. KEMPER: I'd like to see if some of 3 

### our registered speakers have arrived. Taylor 4 

### Prince and Amy Kelly? 5 

### We have two more speakers, Harper Dodson 6 

### and Katy Cywilko. If you'll please come and 7 

### state both your first name and your last name 8 

### before you speak, and spell those for the court 9 

### reporter. Thank you. 10

### MS. CYWILKO: My name is Katy, K-a-t-y, 11 

### C-y-w-i-l-k-o. 12

### MS. DODSON: My name is Harper, 13 

### H-a-r-p-e-r D-o-d-s-o-n. 14

### MS. KEMPER: And you may proceed. We 15 

### have lights here. Green means that your time is 16 

### started and you have 5 minutes. 17

### MS. CYWILKO: My name is Katy and I go to 18 

### Arbor Montessori School. I know I'm just a kid 19 

### but even I understand that we can't continue 20 

### hurting the environment. The Earth is our home. 21 

### Imagine the homes you live in. If you had a hole 22167

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### in your roof, would you just sit down and wait 1 

### for someone else to fix it or would you get up 2 

### and do anything you can to fix it yourself? I 3 

### believe that pollution is hurting our Earth. I'm 4 

### here to tell you that this is very important to 5 

### kids like me and ask you to please do whatever 6 

### you can do to fix this. 7 

### Thank you. 8 

### MS. DODSON: My name is Harper and I also 9 

### go to Arbor Montessori School. I know pollution 10 

### is bad for the environment and I would like us to 11 

### have less in the future. I'm a kid but I'm in 12 

### this too. I think teamwork will help all of see 13 

### a cleaner Earth. I'm asking you to help us do 14 

### what you can. 15

### Thank you. 16

### MS. KEMPER: I have a couple of questions 17 

### for you. What grade are you in? 18

### MS. DODSON: We are in third grade. 19

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Do you all have 20 

### questions? 21

### MR. BOSWELL: Thank you for coming today. 22168

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### We appreciate it. 1 

### MS. KEMPER: We really do. Thanks for 2 

### taking your time. And if you have written 3 

### comments we would like to submit them as a part 4 

### of the docket. If you'll hand them to the court 5 

### reporter that would be excellent. 6 

### We're going to take another short pause. 7 

### If anybody would like to speak, just see the 8 

### folks at the registration desk, and if you're 9 

### registered for a later time slot today and would 10 

### like to speak sooner, then let us know. If 11 

### you'll let Jason -- Jason, if you'll raise your 12 

### hand -- if you'll let Jason know then we'll work 13 

### something out. 14

### [Pause.] 15

### MS. KEMPER: We have a speaker ready to 16 

### speaker. I am calling Woody Bartlett to the 17 

### panel. 18

### If you'll spell your name, both first and 19 

### last, for the court reporter and then begin. 20

### MR. BARTLETT: I'm Woody Bartlett, 21 

### W-o-o-d-y, Bartlett, B-a-r-t-l-e-t-t. I'm a 22169

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### retired Episcopal clergyman and the co-founder, 1 

### with my wife Carol, of Georgia Interfaith Power 2 

### and Light. We are an interfaith group that cares 3 

### about the planet we live on. We care not only 4 

### because we want to leave a livable plant for our 5 

### children and grandchildren, we care because our 6 

### faith pointedly asks us to care. All major 7 

### faiths, maybe even all faiths have love as their 8 

### core belief. We are mandated to love ourselves, 9 

### to love our fellow human beings, to love our God, 10 

### and to love God's creation. And, by extension, 11 

### we are mandated to not abuse ourselves, not abuse 12 

### our fellow human beings, not abuse our God -- we 13 

### call that blasphemy -- and not abuse God's 14 

### creation. 15

### We in the faith community have generally 16 

### worked on the first three of these laws pretty 17 

### well -- love of self, neighbor, and God -- but we 18 

### have, by and large, fallen short on our love for 19 

### the creation. Now we are trying to catch up on 20 

### that creation part of our mandate. 21

### Four or five years ago, GIPL -- that's 22170

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### Georgia Interfaith Power and Light -- started 1 

### doing energy audits on the buildings of our 2 

### congregations. The audit reports came back with 3 

### attached recommendations for energy-saving 4 

### improvements that would cut the consumption of 5 

### electricity in those facilities, and, therefore, 6 

### cut the emissions of carbon dioxide into the 7 

### atmosphere, and, not coincidentally, cut the size 8 

### of the utility bills for the congregation. As we 9 

### tell them, they can now use that money for 10 

### missions. 11

### Since 2010, aided by a federal stimulus 12 

### grant, we have employed a professional engineer 13 

### to do these audits. It is hard to give exact 14 

### results of the audits since it is an active 15 

### program with audits and improvements in various 16 

### stages of completion. Since 2010, however, our 17 

### professional engineer has completed 179 audits up 18 

### and down the whole state of Georgia. We 19 

### estimated we had saved congregations annual over 20 

### three-quarters of a million dollars in utility 21 

### bills. We have cut annual electrical power usage 22171

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### by 3-3/4 billion kilowatt hours, and we have 1 

### saved the annual emission of over 7 million 2 

### pounds of carbon dioxide. We are serious about 3 

### keeping as much greenhouse gas out of the 4 

### atmosphere as we can. 5 

### So we in the faith community are starting 6 

### to do our part of this massive shift that must be 7 

### taken. Now we are asking our government to do 8 

### its part through the adoption of reasonable 9 

### regulations that will help our utilities do their 10 

### part. We ask that EPA adopt the Clean Power Plan 11 

### as proposed. 12

### By the way, we strongly oppose the action 13 

### of Georgia's attorney general, in bringing suit 14 

### against the EPA over this plan. Because this 15 

### suit supports keeping our environment polluted, 16 

### we declare it immoral and we oppose it. 17

### Thank you for your attention. 18

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Jennette Gayer. 19

### I just remind folks if you have written 20 

### comments please share them with the court 21 

### reporter, and before you begin your comments to 22172

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### spell your first and last name. 1 

### MS. GAYER: Five minutes or 3 minutes? 2 

### MS. KEMPER: Five minutes. 3 

### MS. GAYER: And we have a life? Oh, 4 

### good. 5 

### MS. KEMPER: Yellow is the warning and 6 

### red is the stop. 7 

### MS. GAYER: Thank you so much for the 8 

### opportunity to speak today. My name is Jennette 9 

### Gayer. It's J-e-n-n-e-t-t-e, last name 10 

### G-a-y-e-r. I'm the Director of Environment 11 

### Georgia, which is a statewide, nonprofit, 12 

### citizen-funded organization that works on air, 13 

### water, and green space issues. 14

### Well, I'll just comment first. It's been 15 

### a busy day. I don't know if you all are aware 16 

### but the Director of the Bureau of Ocean and 17 

### Energy Management is in town today for an 18 

### offshore drilling hearing later this afternoon. 19 

### I'm hosting a panel on Solarize, which is a way 20 

### to obviously lock purchase solar in Georgia, 21 

### which we have a program on Tybee Island and a 22173

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### program in Athens and hope to have other programs 1 

### too. So it's been a busy day. 2 

### I wanted, with my time, to actually read 3 

### a letter from Councilmember Paul Wolff, who is a 4 

### councilman on Tybee Island. In full disclosure, 5 

### he's also a board member of Environment Georgia, 6 

### but I think he makes a really good points that I 7 

### wanted to make sure that they were entered into 8 

### the public record. I practiced reading this 9 

### aloud and it took me under 5 minutes so hopefully 10 

### that will be the case again. 11

### "Dear Administrator McCarthy, thank you 12 

### for the opportunity to comment on the EPA's 13 

### proposed Clean Power Plan, especially the makeup 14 

### of a Federal Implementation Plan. As a resident 15 

### and fifth-term city councilman on Tybee Island I 16 

### have a strong interest in the impacts of climate 17 

### change and applaud EPA for moving forward with 18 

### rules that will limit carbon pollution from power 19 

### plants. 20

### "Tybee is a barrier island off the coast 21 

### of Savannah. The population of our island is 22174

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### around 3,000 people but it swells to more than 1 

### 30,000 four months a year when visitors come to 2 

### enjoy our beautiful beaches. Global warming 3 

### threatens our island in a number of ways. Most 4 

### recently, our island made headlines when a king 5 

### tide swamped the causeway connecting Savannah and 6 

### Tybee and our only access to the mainland was cut 7 

### off for 4 hours, 3 days in a row. This high tide 8 

### was the third-highest on record. The only two 9 

### that were higher were in 1940 and 1947, during 10 

### hurricane storm surges. 11

### "Our entire economy is based on tourism 12 

### and accessibility. We spent 3 years developing a 13 

### climate change adaptation plan to deal with sea 14 

### level rise and our scientific projections 15 

### indicate that with no action the Highway 80 16 

### causeway will be under water 50 times a year, 17 

### causing major disruptions to our economy and 18 

### quality of life. 19

### "Because Tybee is so vulnerable, I also 20 

### think it is critical that we take a lead role in 21 

### the transition away from fossil fuels and toward 22175

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### renewable energy generation. In 2014, I launched 1 

### Georgia's Solarize program on Tybee Island, which 2 

### was so successful that it was expanded to 3 

### Savannah and the rest of Chatham County, and in 4 

### less than half a year the program installed 335 5 

### kilowatts of solar power capacity on rooftops 6 

### around Tybee and the rest of the county. Athens7 

### Clarke County and Atlanta are already moving 8 

### forward on their own Solarize program. 9 

### "In order to address the climate crisis 10 

### we need to accelerate our progress toward 100 11 

### percent clean energy, and EPA finalizes the model 12 

### rule and the Federal Implementation Plan which we 13 

### strongly encourage you to ensure that these 14 

### programs incentivize investment in clean energy 15 

### resources such as wind, solar, and energy 16 

### efficiency as much as possible. 17

### "As you know, the Georgia attorney 18 

### general has sued the EPA over the Clean Power 19 

### Plan, but Georgia's Environmental Protection 20 

### Division has also signaled its intention to move 21 

### forward with drafting a compliance plan, likely 22176

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### asking for an extension in 2016. As a decision1 

### maker on the coast, I argue we don't have time 2 

### for protected legal battles and delays, and to 3 

### this point I have a few specific recommendations 4 

### on the proposed model rule and the federal plan. 5 

### "The faster EPA can finalize the model 6 

### rule the more certainty states will have as they 7 

### develop their compliance plans and the quicker 8 

### they can move forward. We urge EPA to consider 9 

### whether some components can be finalized shortly 10 

### after the comment period closes. 11

### "EPA should apply the federal plan 12 

### provisions swiftly, should a state decline to 13 

### adequately carry our its responsibilities, and we 14 

### support EPA's proposal to issue a federal plan 15 

### for any state that does not meet one of the 16 

### interim state planning milestones, and urge EPA 17 

### to do so within less than 1 year after finding 18 

### that the state is not on track to submit a final 19 

### state plan. EPA must ensure that effective power 20 

### plants abide by enforceable limits on their 21 

### emissions of global warming pollution by applying 22177

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### effective accountability mechanisms." 1 

### And that's all he has. He says thank you 2 

### again. 3 

### So I'll make sure he submits this in 4 

### writing and we really appreciate the opportunity. 5 

### He couldn't make it, obviously, from the coast 6 

### today but we appreciate the opportunity to share 7 

### this with you and look forward to moving forward. 8 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Questions? 9 

### [No audible response.] 10

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you very much. 11

### Our next commenters are Benita Dodd and 12


### Eleanor Hand. 13

### You may begin when you're ready, stating 14 

### your name and spelling both your first name and 15 

### your last name. 16

### MS. DODD: Good afternoon. My name is 17 

### Benita, B-e-n-i-t-a, D-o-d-d, Dodd, and I'm Vice 18 

### President of the Georgia Public Policy 19 

### Foundation, which is the state-based free-market 20 

### public policy research organization in Georgia. 21 

### Thank you for the opportunity to address you on 22178

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### the proposed federal plan and model rules for the 1


### Clean Power Plan. 2 

### The Foundation opposes the Obama 3 

### administration's Clean Power Plan to reduce 4 

### carbon emissions, which the Administration has 5 

### tried to relabel as carbon pollution. No 6 

### reasonable American wants to return to smoggy 7 

### days in America, and most would be willing to 8 

### sacrifice if it would help the environment. But 9 

### whether you're a climate skeptic or a climate 10 

### believer, this has no effect on the climate. EPA 11 

### Administrator Gina McCarthy admitted to Congress 12 

### that this plan, which is intended to mitigate 13 

### climate change, will barely move the needle on 14 

### global temperatures, and she defended it, saying 15 

### "the value of this rule is not measured in that 16 

### way. It's measured in showing strong domestic 17 

### action which can actually trigger global action 18 

### to address towards a necessary action." 19

### In August, President Obama said the only 20 

### reason that China is getting serious about their 21 

### emissions is because of us. The New York Times 22179

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### reported, in November, on November 4th, that 1 

### China is actually burning up to 17 percent more 2 

### coal per year than it previously reported, and 3 

### the increase in carbon dioxide emissions alone is 4 

### greater than the whole German economy emits 5 

### annually from fossil fuels, and I'm quoting the 6 

### New York Times on that. 7 

### This example that America expects to set 8 

### is expected to reduce global temperatures by 0.01 9 

### degrees Celsius. The average American is 10 

### expected to see a drop of about $85 in annual 11 

### power bills. The EPA Fact Sheet says the plan 12 

### will shrink electricity both by about 8 percent 13 

### in 2030, or as EPA puts it, $7 a month. This a 14 

### credit to increased efficiency -- that means 15 

### using less electricity. That's akin to telling 16 

### people your grocery bill will be lower without 17 

### telling them they'll have to make do with fewer 18 

### groceries. 19

### EPA estimates the combined climate 20 

### benefits and health co-benefits of $32 billion to 21 

### $48 billion in 2030. Well, it's really hard to 22180

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### understand where the climate benefits will come 1 

### from when there's already an admission that 2 

### there's essentially no climate benefit. It's 3 

### hard, too, to believe the EPA estimates on health 4 

### benefits. When the Foundation testified before 5 

### the EPA in Atlanta in 2014, we pointed out the 6 

### plan's claimed reduction in children's asthma 7 

### goes against the evidence. Worse, it's going to 8 

### hurt upward mobility for low-income families 9 

### where asthma is more prevalent, meaning fewer job 10 

### opportunities and less money available to improve 11 

### their quality of life and health. 12

### Meanwhile, the American Action Forum 13 

### warns that it's going to cost the U.S. economy 14 

### $2.5 trillion to close at least 77 coal-fired 15 

### plants and eliminate 125,000-plus jobs. 16

### There's a greater problem -- coal will 17 

### still be used, just not in this country where 18 

### environmental responsibility is expected and 19 

### demanded. As our sister think tank, the Texas 20 

### Public Policy Foundation, points out, the total 21 

### amount of carbon dioxide emissions the EPA hopes 22181

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### to reduce across the country by 2030 will be 1 

### emitted by China in less than 2 weeks. But 2 

### that's not all. Consumer prices will increase, 3 

### the cost of doing business will increase, causing 4 

### more job losses or shrinking job creation. More 5 

### businesses will move offshore and Americans will 6 

### deal with a price volatility of natural gas to 7 

### replace the plentiful, reliable source of coal. 8 

### Our energy intensity -- that's our 9 

### consumption based on GDP -- is continuing to 10 

### decline. We're getting so much more bang for our 11 

### buck. Our air quality continues to improve, even 12 

### as our energy use increases. 13

### Now, as you may notice from my accent, 14 

### I'm from South Africa originally, and I get 15 

### almost daily notifications from my family about 16 

### load-shedding. That's scheduled blackouts. The 17 

### New York Times reported this week on the energy 18 

### shortages in sub-Saharan Africa. It reported 19 

### that while South Africa has seen an increase from 20 

### 34 percent of houses electrified to 85 percent 21 

### now, it doesn't really matter if you don't have 22182

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### the electricity coming to your house. My family 1 

### calls all the time, telling me how they had to 2 

### spend the night doing their homework by 3 

### candlelight. I think that America deserves 4 

### better than that and I think that we deserve a 5 

### reliable source of energy. 6 

### Thank you. 7 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Do we have any 8 

### questions from the panel? 9 

### [No audible response.] 10

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 11

### MS. HAND: Hello. I'm Eleanor Hand, 12 

### E-l-e-a-n-o-r H-a-n-d. I'm co-chair of the 13 

### Georgia Sierra Club Energy Committee. 14

### I support the Clean Power Plan. This 15 

### plan will protect the health of millions of 16 

### Americans, preserve property, provide jobs, and 17 

### contribute to the survival of many species of 18 

### lives. It sends a strong message to other 19 

### countries that the U.S. is making the commitment 20 

### to slow the impending devastation of climate 21 

### change to building new energy future based on 22183

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### renewable resources and to use that energy 1 

### efficiently. 2 

### It is costly not to comply with this 3 

### plan. You, the EPA, estimate that the Clean 4 

### Power Plan will result in a net climate and 5 

### health benefit of $25 to $45 billion by 2030. 6 

### The Risky Business Project studied the economic 7 

### risk of climate change. This study projects that 8 

### on our current path, by 2050, between $66 and 9 

### $106 billion worth of coastal property in the 10 

### U.S. is likely to be below sea level. Much of 11 

### that is in the Southeast. 12

### Two weeks ago, the only highway access to 13 

### Tybee Island on the coast of Georgia was flooded 14 

### by high tide. This is the third time in history. 15 

### The other two times were in the 1940s, during 16 

### hurricanes. It's here. 17

### Also projected in this study, by the end 18 

### of the century extreme heat will cause a 50 to 70 19 

### percent loss in average annual crop yields in the 20 

### Southeast, and a 3 percent reduction in labor 21 

### productivity for construction, utility 22184

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### maintenance, landscaping, and agriculture 1 

### workers. This could cost the economy of Georgia 2 

### up to $2 billion a year. These are serious 3


### losses. 4 

### We can reduce these risks if policy5 

### makers and business leaders act now to reduce 6 

### emissions. The Clean Power Plan would reduce 7 

### Georgia emission 25 percent below 2005 levels by 8 

### 2030. Governor Deal of Georgia has directed the 9 

### state Environmental Protection Division to begin 10 

### planning for the state compliance. Thank you, 11 

### Governor Deal, for protecting the health and 12 

### wealth of our citizens. 13

### Georgia is well on its way to meeting 14 

### this goal. The Georgia EPD made a presentation 15 

### to Georgia stakeholders on October 8, 2015. The 16 

### presentation was titled "State Components and 17 

### Timeline." The presentation accounted for the 18 

### planned retirement of 14 coal-fired units, the 19 

### start-up of 2 nuclear units at Plant Vogtle, and 20 

### the start-up of a number of renewable energy 21 

### projects. All these retirements and additions of 22185

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### nuclear and renewable energy would be considered 1 

### business as usual because they're currently 2 

### planned. Doing business as usual, Georgia 3 

### achieves a 2020 goal of approximately 1,200 4 

### pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour. This is only 65 5 

### pounds above the 2020 EPA goal for Georgia. 6 

### Georgia comes very close to meeting its 2020 goal 7 

### by conducting business as usual, or following 8 

### steps already planned. 9 

### In addition, the Clean Power Plan 10 

### provides credits if Georgia establishes, by 2020, 11 

### energy efficiency programs focused on low-income 12 

### residents. This is a low-cost route to reducing 13 

### Georgia's demand. Many utilities have already 14 

### established energy efficiency programs as part of 15 

### their business model. Georgia Power needs to 16 

### establish an aggressive and creative energy 17 

### efficiency program rather than sue the EPA. 18

### Georgia's clean energy industry provided 19 

### more than 19,000 full-time clean energy jobs in 20 

### 2014, more than Georgia Power's entire workforce 21 

### during the same period. 22186

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### There are sustainable opportunities to 1 

### further reduce carbon emissions between 2020 and 2 

### 2030. The National Renewable Energy Lab reports 3 

### Georgia has the potential to produce more than 40 4 

### times as much electricity from solar power as the 5 

### state consumes each year. Georgia is the 6 

### fastest-growing solar market in the nation. 7 

### There are opportunities to buy wind from 8 

### the Midwest, cheap wind from the Midwest. The 9 

### new NREL wind maps show with greater hub heights 10 

### and better blade technology Georgia has good wind 11 

### potential onshore and that wind turbines offshore 12 

### could produce enough energy to meet one-third of 13 

### Georgia's demand. 14

### So no thank you to Georgia Power and no 15 

### thank you to the attorney general of the state of 16 

### Georgia. Georgia has no need to sue the EPA. 17 

### Georgians need to take this timely opportunity to 18 

### reduce carbon emissions and step forward with 19 

### enthusiasm and creativity. Georgia, let's be a 20 

### leader in building a sustainable, efficient, and 21 

### renewable energy future. The Clean Power Plan is 22187

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### a good road map to that future. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### MR. BOSWELL: Just to remind the 3 

### commenters, if you have hard copies that you can 4 

### leave with the court reporter we would appreciate 5 

### it. 6 

### MS. KEMPER: Taylor Prince and Amy Kelly, 7 

### please come to the speaker's table. And as Mr. 8 

### Prince and Ms. Kelly come to the speaker's table, 9 

### just a reminder for everyone, begin your time 10 

### with stating your name and spelling both your 11 

### first name and your last name, and submit any 12 

### written comments to the court reporter that you 13 

### have available. 14

### With that, Mr. Prince. 15

### MR. PRINCE: Good afternoon. My name is 16 

### Taylor Prince. That's T-a-y-l-o-r P-r-i-n-c-e. 17 

### I'm a chemical engineer from Oak Ridge, 18 

### Tennessee, and a volunteer for SOCM. That's 19 

### Statewide Organizing for Community Empowerment. 20 

### I also represent the views of my family, over 21 

### half of which work for Allergy, Asthma, and Sinus 22188

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### Center, one of the country's largest allergy and 1 

### immunology practices. I want to thank you for 2 

### holding this hearing and especially for 3 

### highlighting the public health risks associated 4 

### with climate change. 5 

### Here in the South, too many people deny 6 

### the well-documented science that our carbon 7 

### pollution will raise the Earth's temperature to 8 

### unsafe levels in the next 50 to 100 years. What 9 

### they can't deny, however, is the already present 10 

### public health risk associated with our industrial 11 

### pollutants. The Clean Power Plan could prevent 12 

### up to 90,000 asthma attacks annually, which I 13 

### suspect this policy, in full implementation, 14 

### could prevent even more than that. 15

### USDA and NIH scientific studies confirmed 16 

### a 200 percent increase in CO2 concentrations 17 

### cause a 400 percent increase in pollen 18 

### production. Furthermore, the potency and 19 

### allergenicity of that pollen increases. By 20 

### reining in this carbon pollution, we can curb 21 

### pollen pollution which causes asthmatic triggers. 22189

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### I appreciate that you all include the 1 

### indirect benefits of limiting carbon pollution, 2 

### particularly concerning pollutants from coal3 

### fired power plants. NOx emissions, mixed with 4 

### isoprene from trees to create unhealthy levels of 5 

### ground-level ozone. The ozone, smog, and 6 

### particulate matter from coal plants cause asthma 7 

### attacks. Numerous studies prove that heavy metal 8 

### pollutants and known neurotoxins from coal, such 9 

### as lead, cadmium, mercury, arsenic -- the list 10 

### goes on -- lead to increased stress and anxiety. 11 

### This again leads to increased asthma triggers. 12

### Perhaps most admirable is your commitment 13 

### to environmental justice with this plan. As 14 

### we've heard today, air can be very racist. On 15 

### average, non-white demographic groups breathe air 16 

### that is 38 percent higher in NO2. Black and 17 

### Hispanic groups are more likely to live near 18 

### industrial pollution. Black Americans have a 330 19 

### percent higher rate of asthma-related emergency 20 

### department visits, with a death rate of 180 21 

### percent higher. When I was a teenager, I had a 22190

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### friend that was having an asthma attacks, 1 

### struggling to find his inhaler. I never felt so 2 

### fearful and helpless. Now I know there's a 3 

### chance we can prevent further attacks like this 4 

### happening. That's why I'm here today. 5 

### With Knoxville, Nashville, Memphis, and 6 

### Chattanooga consistently ranking in the top 10 of 7 

### worst cities to live with asthma, my family and 8 

### the allergy practice would have a vested 9 

### financial interest to allow this pollution to 10 

### continue. However, we are dedicated to saving 11 

### lives and improving quality of life. 12

### We'd like you to know that despite our 13 

### very political backgrounds, you have our full 14 

### support in mitigating climate change and 15 

### improving public health in this country. 16

### Thank you. 17

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 18

### MS. KELLY: Amy Kelly with Appalachian 19 

### Voices. A-m-y K-e-l-l-y. I work on the Energy 20 

### Savings for Appalachia program, and I just wanted 21 

### to say that I appreciate all the moms and 22191

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### grandmothers speaking on behalf of their children 1 

### and grandchildren earlier today, and what they've 2 

### seen happen as far as asthma attacks go. 3 

### I grew up with asthma and I didn't have a 4 

### childhood because of that. Speaking with 5 

### industry representatives later, I learned from a 6 

### retired environmental engineer at the largest 7 

### polluting plant in my hometown, that regulations 8 

### caused them to change what they were emitting 9 

### into the air. My asthma slowly improved. Today, 10 

### many years later, I, like so many others, are 11 

### here to support EPA's Clean Power Plan. 12

### I want to focus my comments at this time 13 

### on energy efficiency and the Clean Energy 14 

### Incentive Program. The Southeast has 29 percent 15 

### of the nation's energy efficiency potential. 16 

### Energy efficiency is the least-cost way for 17 

### states to meet their pollution reduction targets, 18 

### and according to reports, energy efficiency 19 

### produces more good-paying jobs compared to 20 

### investment in other industry sectors. Much of 21 

### the energy waste in the South is plaguing lower- 22192

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### income and marginalized communities. The rule 1 

### should target energy efficiency investments for 2 

### these communities. We need to ensure that an 3 

### allowance value goes to consumers through energy 4 

### efficiency, bill rebates, workforce training, and 5 

### other low-income community investments. 6 

### EPA's model rule sets, as a default, an 7 

### assumption that the public will transfer the 8 

### entire value of all the allocated CEIP allowances 9 

### to the owners of coal power plants in exchange 10 

### for methane. It's like the game Monopoly, where 11 

### all the energy players start out with a certain 12 

### amount of free money or credits. EPA is not 13 

### being clear about this in webinars or 14 

### presentations, which is alarming. We need to 15 

### have an auction versus allowance system so that 16 

### the public doesn't give a free pass to polluters. 17

### I would be remiss if I didn't ask that 18 

### the Power Plus Plan, which is different than the 19 

### Clean Power Plan but it relates to it, it needs 20 

### to be funded alongside the Clean Power Plan. 21 

### This basically provides funding so that 22193

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### Appalachian communities can retool and retrain 1 

### and diversify their economy. Appalachian 2 

### communities have been the sacrifice them [ph] for 3 

### powering the country for centuries and the Power 4 

### Plus Plan shows that they can be the clean energy 5


### leaders of the future. 6 

### Thank you for helping keep coal in the 7 

### ground, where it needs to stay, but let's make 8 

### sure that our families which have been indentured 9 

### by this industry have opportunities in the 10


### future. 11

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Thank you both. 12 

### Bruce Blohm and Jacquelin Carter. 13

### MR. BLOHM: Thank you. My name is Bruce 14 

### Blohm, B-l-o-h-m, and I'm representing 15 

### GreenSpace.org and St. Paul's Episcopal Church in 16 

### Chattanooga, as well as the South Chickamauga 17 

### Creek Greenway Alliance, and I really appreciate 18 

### an opportunity to talk about the two issues that 19 

### are nearest and dearest to my heart with this 20 

### plan. 21

### First of all, as we probably heard 22194

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### extensively, is that the dirty power that's 1 

### affecting our world, our region, our communities, 2 

### is not just affecting us individually, equally, 3 

### but obviously more impactful to those of lower 4 

### incomes and people of color, and from a moral 5 

### issue I think this particular bill will help us 6 

### as a nation move in the direction of being 7 

### citizens having a right to some of the clean air 8 

### and the healthful benefits of living in our 9 

### communities across the country, and I want to 10 

### thank you for putting forth this bill. 11

### We talked about dirty carbon, polluted 12 

### air causing asthma attacks, hospital visits, 13 

### medical conditions, and premature deaths, and 14 

### there's a society consequence to that that we are 15 

### feeling right now, particularly in the 16 

### Chattanooga area, that I'm well-aware of, and 17 

### economically, we're paying this price for these 18 

### citizens who are getting undeserved losses and 19 

### impacts. African-American children are twice as 20 

### likely to be hospitalized from their asthma and 21 

### four times likely to die. So those are some 22195

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### things that stand out in my mind. 1 

### So from a faith community perspective, 2 

### that's where we want to focus our support for 3 

### this bill, is that it does reach into our society 4 

### as a whole, and I think we have a moral reason to 5


### do that. 6 

### Secondly, from a South Chickamauga Creek 7 

### Greenway Alliance perspective, the residual of 8 

### dirty power, things like coal ash blowing into 9 

### our streams and our creeks, is not something that 10 

### a lot of people are aware of, but if we can move 11 

### forward on this we're going to be preventing 12 

### needless to our most treasured asset, in the form 13 

### of water. One thing that we may or may not 14 

### realize is that you can go 3 weeks without food 15 

### but you can only go 3 days without water. 16

### So from a large perspective, the impact 17 

### of dirty power on our clean water, not only here 18 

### in this area where we have plentiful amounts but 19 

### across the country. So I want to thank you for 20 

### supporting this and on behalf of our faith 21 

### communities and the water protection forum say 22196

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### please put forth every bit of it. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 3 

### MS. CARTER: I'm Jacquelin Carter, spelled 4 

### J-a-c-q-u-e-l-i-n C-a-r-t-e-r. I go by Jackie. 5 

### I'm a student at the University of Tennessee at 6 

### Chattanooga and I'd like to t hank you all for 7 

### doing your job and holding these public hearing 8 

### today for the fourth branch of government, my 9 

### personal favorite branch, active citizenship. 10 

### And I felt inclined to hop onto a bus today from 11 

### Chattanooga, Tennessee, and thus miss world 12 

### politics because I am going to Paris soon, and I 13 

### -- well, I came here because I'm tired of being 14 

### misrepresented, on all government -- levels of 15 

### government, in all fields, and those people with 16 

### power and they're not representing my generation. 17 

### I assume I'm left to stand up for myself and my 18 

### generation. 19

### So the policies that you put in place, 20 

### though I don't know the ins and outs of policy 21 

### yet, or if I ever do, whatnot, please make sure 22197

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### that -- pardon my French -- that you do a damn 1 

### good job, because, I mean, it'll be affecting, I 2 

### assume I'm one of the youngest in the room, so my 3 

### generation the most. 4 

### And, yeah, I'm ready to be represented so 5 

### thank you for giving me a voice today. 6 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. Doug Lego 7 

### and Colleen McLoughlin. 8 

### MR. LEGO: Good afternoon. My name is 9 

### Doug Lego. It's D-o-u-g L-e-g-o. I'm the Vice 10 

### President and Chief Administrative Officer for 11 

### the Municipal Electric Authority of Georgia, 12 

### commonly known as MEAG Power. 13

### MEAG Power was solely created for one 14 

### purpose -- to serve our 49 members, public power 15 

### communities in Georgia with reliable and 16 

### affordable wholesale electricity. We operate 17 

### without profit and have no shareholders. Our 18 

### costs incurred for the supply of power directly 19 

### reflected in the electric bills of the retail 20 

### electricity consumers in our 49 communities. 21 

### It's on behalf of the citizens of the 49 22198

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### communities that I provide these comments today. 1 

### They're the ones that will bear the impact of 2


### these rules. 3 

### The regulatory approach for the Clean 4 

### Power Plan and the proposed federal plan go well 5 

### beyond the limits of Section 111(d) of the Clean 6 

### Air Act. The final Clean Power Plan and the 7 

### proposed federal plan infringe on state and local 8 

### authority to regulate electric utility business 9 

### and on the utility's ability to plan and operate 10 

### the electricity supply in a manner that considers 11 

### costs and reliability. 12

### Specific issues include the Clean Power 13 

### Plan and proposed federal plan are designed to 14 

### achieve a 32 percent national reduction in tons 15 

### of carbon dioxide versus 2005 for the power 16 

### sector as a whole. This is not what Section 17 

### 111(d) requires. Section 111(d) only authorizes 18 

### standards of performance on individual affected 19



### sources. 20

### The Clean Power Plan and the proposed 21 

### federal plan mandate emission performance rates 22199

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### and state goals that go far beyond setting 1 

### standards on the affected sources, extending its 2 

### reach beyond the fence line of affected sources 3 

### and requiring generating unit performance that is 4 

### not achievable within the fence line. 5 

### MEAG Power believes that the Clean Power 6 

### Plan and the proposed federal plan for regulatory 7 

### overreaches by the EPA and the regulations should 8 

### address electric generating unit affected sources 9 

### only. Moreover, MEAG Power believes that due to 10 

### multiple power plant closures that would occur in 11 

### Georgia, and the many renewable generation 12 

### sources that are likely to be constructed under 13 

### the Clean Power Plan, reliability of the power 14 

### grid will be compromised. 15

### Because of these significant concerns, we 16 

### support the state motions, filed in the D.C. 17 

### Circuit Court of Appeals by over half of the U.S. 18 

### states, and other petitioners, to stop further 19 

### implementation of the final Clean Power Plan 20 

### until the court decides whether or not the rule 21 

### satisfies 111(d). 22200

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### The current supplied to our 49 member 1 

### communities consists of over 1,200 megawatts and 2 

### nuclear and hydroelectric power. As a result of 3 

### that, over 50 percent of the electricity supplied 4 

### to the communities is produced while creating no 5 

### emissions. This final rule provides little 6 

### credit for these carbon-free resources and, 7 

### instead, may require our communities to fund new, 8 

### unneeded renewable energy resources which raise 9 

### the cost to electric consumers. 10

### Looking to invest in the future of their 11 

### communities, our members have not only committed 12 

### to the construction of new, non-emitting 13 

### resources in Vogtle Units 3 and 4 but have also 14 

### funded half-billion dollars in state-of-the-art 15 

### emission control improvements for our coal16 

### generating resources, based on recent federal and 17


### state rules. 18

### The Clean Power Plan and proposed federal 19 

### plan penalize the communities for these 20 

### investments by asking for even more emission 21 

### reductions from the state of Georgia, which has 22201

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### seen substantial reduction in emissions since 1 

### 2005. The final Clean Power Plan and proposed 2 

### federal plan would likely require significantly 3 

### reduced coal unit operations, potentially even 4 

### requiring shut-down of the units, which strands 5 

### the cost of the recent environmental investments 6 

### and again raises the cost of electricity to 7 

### consumers in our communities. 8 

### Each hour of the day, MEAG manages the 9 

### use of our diverse mix of generation resources in 10 

### other to provide the lowest-cost wholesale power 11 

### for our 49 communities, which is essential to 12 

### their growth and prosperity. This principle of 13 

### economic dispatch is the foundation of power 14 

### industry operations and allows for use of a 15 

### diverse set of fuels and resources in manner that 16 

### ensures that citizens receive the benefit of 17 

### their investment. Preventing economic dispatch 18 

### of the system would unnecessarily raise the cost 19 

### to electric consumers. 20

### In summary, the Clean Power Plan and the 21 

### proposed federal plan go well beyond the 22202

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### requirements of Section 111(d) of the Clean Air 1 

### Act and will create additional costs that will 2 

### flow directly to the citizens in the communities 3 

### we serve. Many of these citizens are low- and 4 

### fixed-income and can least afford an increase in 5 

### their electricity costs. 6 

### Thank you very much for this opportunity 7


### to make comments. 8 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 9 

### MS. McLOUGHLIN: Hello. My name is 10 

### Colleen McLoughlin. I am a campaign organizer 11 

### with Environment Georgia, a statewide, citizen12 

### funded advocacy group. We work to protect our 13 

### air, our water, and our open spaces. 14

### MS. KEMPER: Would you please spell both 15 

### your first and last names? 16

### MS. McLOUGHLIN: Sorry. Yes. Colleen, 17 

### C-o-l-l-e-e-n, McLoughlin, M-c-L-o-u-g-h-l-i-n, 18 

### and again, I'm with Environment Georgia. We have 19 

### thousands of members across Georgia who support 20 

### our work to protect the environment. 21

### The Clean Air Act directs the EPA to set 22203

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### national clean air standards. This includes 1 

### carbon pollution from burning fossil fuels. The 2 

### Clean Power Plan is a pragmatic, flexible 3 

### approach to mitigate the risks of climate change, 4 

### allowing states to tailor the plan specific to 5 

### the needs of families and businesses in their 6


### state. 7 

### Opponents of the Clean Power Plan claim 8 

### consumers will see their electricity bills rise. 9 

### That would only happen if we choose a compliance 10 

### strategy heavily reliant on nuclear power, the 11 

### most expensive and complicated way to generate 12 

### electricity. We should not be relying on natural 13 

### gas either, which is cheap now but volatile, and 14 

### at continuing cost. Solar and wind are the 15 

### cheapest sources of energy over the long term. 16 

### Yes, there is an initial cost, but essentially it 17 

### is free energy. Over the long term, it is our 18 

### cheapest source of energy. 19

### The clean energy industry generates 20 

### almost $3 billion in gross revenue and provided 21 

### over 19,000 full-time jobs in Georgia in 2014. 22204

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### That is more than Georgia Power's entire 1 

### workforce during the same period. 2 

### By investing in clean energy now, we will 3 

### contribute to economic growth, produce more jobs, 4 

### and ensure a cleaner, healthier planet for future 5 

### generations. 6 

### I will now list some added benefits of 7 

### solar energy, in particular, in Georgia. Georgia 8 

### is the fastest-growing solar market in the U.S. 9 

### We are well-positioned to make renewable energy a 10 

### pillar of our state economy. There are already 11 

### over 170 solar companies at work in Georgia, 12 

### giving jobs to over 3,000 Georgians, and powering 13 

### thousands of homes and businesses. Yet we still 14 

### only get 1 percent of our energy from solar. Our 15 

### potential to boost solar in the state of Georgia 16 

### and the Clean Power Plan go hand in hand. 17


### Rather than sue the EPA over the Clean 18 

### Power Plan, Georgia should be focusing its 19 

### efforts on becoming the solar leader of the 20 

### Southeast, if not the nation. And if Georgia 21 

### fails to holds its polluters accountable and 22205

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### comply with the Clean Power Plan, the EPA should 1 

### absolutely implement the Federal Implementation 2 

### Plan, and we ask that the EPA put special 3 

### priority on talking to low-income communities, 4 

### under-served communities, those who are hit 5 

### hardest by the impacts of climate change when 6 

### implementing the plan. 7 

### Either way, we can no longer let the 8 

### fossil fuel industry pollute our air, water, and 9 

### open spaces without limitation. For this reason, 10 

### I am in full support of the Clean Power Plan. 11

### Thank you for your time. 12

### DR. MITCHELL: Could you just elaborate a 13 

### little on your comment that we should talk to EJ 14 

### communities, or environmental justice 15 

### communities? 16

### MS. McLOUGHLIN: Yes. Absolutely. In 17 

### Clean Power Plan it states that the EPA will do 18 

### all it can to reach out to those communities in 19 

### particular, and we just want to make sure that is 20 

### actually implemented and that low-income 21 

### communities, those within 30 miles of an existing 22206

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### fossil fuel power plant are spoken to and their 1 

### needs are realized. 2 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 3 

### Lauren Reef and Reverend Kate McGregor4 

### Mosley. 5 

### If you'll begin by stating your name and 6 

### then spelling both your first and last names. 7 

### Thank you. 8 

### MS. REEF: Thank you. My name is Lauren 9 

### Reef, L-a-u-r-e-n R-e-e-f. I am a student at 10 

### Emory University, as well as an organizer for the 11 

### People's Climate March on November 29th. I am 12 

### here as a young person, as a university student, 13 

### to show the support of us in this effort. I, 14 

### myself, grew up in a coal-mining town. I saw the 15 

### effects of how coal has declined in recent years. 16 

### Coal is dead. There is no reason why we should 17 

### be continuing to support coal power generation in 18 

### this country or in this state. 19

### The Clean Air Act directs the 20 

### Environmental Protection Agency to set these 21 

### national clean air standards and with these 22207

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### standards for carbon pollutions for these 1 

### existing fossil fuel plants. The Clean Power 2 

### Plan gives states a lot of flexibility to decide 3 

### the appropriate emission reduction measures to 4 

### meet the standard, but if the state cannot or 5 

### will not, like Georgia may actually not do, the 6 

### law guarantees that communities can rely on the 7 

### EPA to protect their health, and I think it's 8 

### just incredibly important to remember the health 9 

### effects of coal and of dirty power on our 10 

### communities, especially low-income communities. 11

### It's critical that the EPA would issue 12 

### this Federal Implementation Plan for states who 13 

### refuse to comply, and those protections that will 14 

### save the lives and protect the planet from the 15 

### most dangerous effects of climate change that 16 

### need to come as early as possible. 17

### Climate change is indeed a human rights 18 

### issue. Communities across the globe are dealing 19 

### with these devastating impacts from families 20 

### displaced from their homes to industry [ph] to 21 

### children suffering from health impacts of poor 22208

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### air quality. I am not an activist, although I am 1 

### organizing a protest march. I believe this is 2 

### something that everyone should care about, and 3 

### I'm just very glad that I got to come here today 4


### and talk about that. 5 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 6 

### MS. McGREGOR MOSLEY: I'm Kate McGregor 7 

### Mosley. K-a-t-e M-c-G-r-e-g-o-r M-o-s-l-e-y. 8 

### I came today to register my support of the Clean 9 

### Power Plan. I'm Executive Director and a 10 

### Presbyterian minister of Georgia Interfaith Power 11 

### and Light, a faith-based environmental 12 

### organization mobilizing the faith communities 13 

### across Georgia, engaging them in sustainable 14 

### practices and environmental stewardship as a 15 

### witness to faith. 16

### We are actively involved with over 1,000 17 

### houses of worship across the state -- churches, 18 

### synagogues, temples, religious schools even. 19 

### There are 15,000, at last count, congregations 20 

### and faith communities in Georgia, so we have our 21 

### work cut out for us but we engage them in 22209

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### practical ways they can reduce their carbon 1 

### footprint and understand their energy needs while 2 

### also increasing their awareness and shaping an 3 

### environmental ethic as part of their moral 4 

### responsibility to practice stewardship. We 5 

### connect those themes with sustainability, 6 

### ecological sustainability and spiritual 7 

### sustainability. 8 

### At GIPL we believe we have a moral 9 

### imperative to address the environmental 10 

### challenges of our time, and this is not something 11 

### that the faith community does lightly nor does 12 

### because it is trend-setting. This is a part of 13 

### generations' thousands of years of faith stories 14 

### woven together in the work of stewardship. So 15 

### care for the Earth is an integral part of the 16 

### life of faith. 17

### The practical work we do is what I think 18 

### has the most bearing in this setting here. We 19 

### have the tools to help congregational facilities 20 

### reduce their energy needs by incorporating energy 21 

### efficiencies, and the benefit, the carbon 22210

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### pollution savings from these energy efficiency 1 

### practices we've implemented in close to 300 2 

### congregations on the ground has the benefit of 3 

### like planting 100,000 trees every year. We 4 

### provide grants that help congregations pay for 5 

### these energy efficient upgrades and we've been 6 

### able to share close to $750,000 to help the faith 7 

### community implement energy efficiencies. This is 8 

### an important part of reducing carbon pollution 9 

### and it's an important part of the Clean Power 10 

### Plan, as I understand it. 11

### So we stand in support of the Clean Power 12 

### Plan because it encourages the energy efficiency 13 

### implementation. We believe that the cleanest 14 

### kilowatt burned is the one not burned at all. We 15 

### also have seen the benefit of this work as faith 16 

### communities are spending less money on energy 17 

### through the energy efficiencies. That is money 18 

### freed up to serve the wider community through 19 

### ministries that they are called to form and that 20 

### serve the community. 21

### So that's one point I want to raise. I 22211

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### also want to acknowledge that it is the faith 1 

### community that is on the front lines of our 2 

### cities, neighborhoods, other communities that are 3 

### hit hardest when the increased frequency of 4 

### natural disasters as caused by climate chaos. 5 

### Faith communities show up to provide direct aid 6 

### as funding, but also in people power, to help 7 

### people in need during critical times. So faith 8 

### communities want to be engaged in addressing the 9 

### challenges of climate change and environmental 10 

### degradation in the communities, locally and 11 

### abroad, so they're beginning to make the 12 

### connections in these actions. 13

### Also, faith communities understand the 14 

### moral obligation we have to care for our 15 

### neighbor, so we're deeply invested in the 16 

### environmental justice aspect of the Clean Power 17 

### Plan, and want to see that addressed as well. 18 

### Honoring the needs of our neighbors who live 19 

### closest to the current coal-fired power plants as 20 

### well as future energy production sites, we want 21 

### the needs of those communities to be addressed, 22212

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### and I do think EPA regulation is one way to 1


### address that. 2 

### Thank you. 3 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 4 

### [Pause.] 5 

### DR. MITCHELL: While we're waiting for 6 

### our next speaker name let me just remind everyone 7 

### that there are multiple ways to comment today. 8 

### While you're here you can write comments on 9 

### comment cards that we have out in the lobby and 10 

### hand them in to our staff at the registration 11 

### desk. If you've brought copies, hard copies of 12 

### comments you would like to submit to the docket, 13 

### you can also provide them, hand them in here to 14 

### our court reporter or to our folks at the 15 

### registration desk. We also have fact sheets out 16 

### in the lobby that provide instructions on 17 

### submitting comments to the docket as well. 18

### And just to remind everyone, if you do 19 

### want to submit written comments to the docket, 20 

### the comment period closes January 21st, and so we 21 

### encourage you to make sure you keep that in mind 22213

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### so that you get your comments in in time. 1 

### MS. KEMPER: Our next speaker is Doug 2 

### Miell. 3 

### MR. Miell: Good afternoon. My name is 4 

### Doug Miell. That's D-o-u-g M-i-e-l-l, and I'm 5 

### representing the Georgia Chamber of Commerce, and 6 

### I thank you for the opportunity to present brief 7 

### comments today on the Federal Implementation Plan 8 

### option as outlined in the Clean Power Plan. 9 

### At the outside I must state that the 10 

### Chamber did not and does not support the Clean 11 

### Power Plan in its current form, and we 12 

### articulated our concerns during the comment 13 

### period early on this year. Of the implementation 14 

### options available, should the plan survive legal 15 

### challenge, the Chamber's preference, arrived 16 

### after discussion with our energy generation 17 

### members, is for a state implementation plan and 18 

### not a federally imposed implementation plan to be 19 

### applied here in Georgia. The Chamber will work 20 

### proactively with Georgia's Environmental 21 

### Protection Division and our energy members to 22214

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### make this outcome a reality. 1 

### The Chamber is the largest voice of 2 

### Georgia's business community. We understand that 3 

### our members share one important requirement -- 4 

### the need for reliable and affordable energy. It 5 

### is a major key to Georgia's competitiveness and 6 

### success and underpins our business investment, 7 

### employment growth, and enviable living standards. 8 

### I'd also like to take this opportunity to 9 

### comment the numerous businesses in Georgia that 10 

### have effectively introduced market-driven 11 

### efficiencies into their operations, that have 12 

### resulted in significant CO2 emissions reductions 13 

### and that, in their business process, is an 14 

### ongoing challenge for them. While acknowledging 15 

### the finalization of the Clean Power Plan, the 16 

### Chamber continues to support market-based 17 

### development of energy generation capabilities of 18 

### which coal-fuel generation is now, and will 19 

### continue to be, an important component. 20

### We also believe that Georgia is setting 21 

### the standard for the nation in advancing solar 22215

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### energy, seeing our state rank as the top leader 1 

### in solar development. According to the Georgia 2 

### Solar Energy Industry Association, and without 3 

### the Clean Power Plan, there are more than 186 4 

### solar companies at work here in Georgia now, 5 

### investing in excess of $79 million to install 6 

### solar on homes and businesses. 7 

### Georgia has already achieved significant 8 

### emissions reductions through the combined actions 9 

### of utilities, regulators, and consumers. Data in 10 

### the 2014 Georgia Energy Report reveals that in 11 

### recent year Georgia has significantly changed its 12 

### energy generation needs and reduced its carbon 13 

### emissions by fuel-switching, utility investments, 14 

### and consumption efficiencies. This can be 15 

### attributed to a combination of market forces, 16 

### regulatory stimulation, and consumer behavior. 17 

### The multi-billion-dollar investment in nuclear 18 

### generation, with the construction of Plant 19 

### Vogtle's Units 3 and 4, will make an important 20 

### contribution to this generation diversity for 21 

### many years to come. 22216

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### The Chamber support's Georgia's attorney 1 

### general Sam Olens' challenge to EPA's Clean Power 2 

### Plan. We note that Georgia is but one of 24 3 

### states and a number of individual groups and 4 

### individual companies to challenge the plan. It 5 

### is the Chamber's view that all implementation 6 

### activities associated with the Clean Power Plan 7 

### should be suspended pending the conclusion of the 8 

### numerous legal challenges to its validity. 9 

### The Chamber acknowledges and supports the 10 

### commitments of its energy members and Georgia's 11 

### Environmental Protection Division to commence 12 

### development of a state implementation plan. It 13 

### is the considered opinion of all concerned that 14 

### the successful implementation of the state 15 

### implementation plan is the preferred outcome for 16 

### Georgia. 17

### The Chamber does not support the 18 

### application of the inflexible, poorly designed 19 

### Federal Implementation Plan option in Georgia. 20 

### That would be a flawed, costly solution that 21 

### would provide limited benefits to the state. 22217

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### More specifically, we think provisions in the 1 

### Clean Power Plan that rate the benefits of 2 

### biomass differently than other renewable sources 3 

### is of prime concern, particularly for a state 4 

### that has such a large abundance of timber 5 

### resources. Such inequities should be rectified 6 

### should EPA advance with a Federal Implementation 7 

### Plan here in Georgia. 8 

### As I stated earlier, should the Clean 9 

### Power Plan survive the numerous legal challenges, 10 

### the Chamber will work proactively with the 11 

### Georgia Environmental Protection Division and 12 

### their energy members to ensure that a state 13 

### implementation plan that is in the best interest 14 

### of Georgians becomes a reality here in Georgia. 15

### Thank you. 16

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you very much. We 17 

### will now take a 10-minute break and come back for 18 

### more speakers. Thank you. 19

### [Break taken from 3:01 to 3:18 p.m.] 20

### MS. KEMPER: We are back in session, and 21 

### we are calling Marin Angeles Gutierrez and the 22218

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### Reverend William Flippin, Jr. 1 

### And while our speakers get ready we have 2 

### a public service announcement. 3 

### DR. MITCHELL: Kindly take a look and see 4 

### if you have your cell phone. A cell phone was 5 

### found and has been taken down to the guard's 6 

### desk, just as you enter the building, if you've 7 

### lost your phone. 8 

### MS. KEMPER: So once again, the Reverend 9 

### William Flippin, Jr. If you'll begin by stating 10 

### your name and spelling your name. 11

### MS. GUTIERREZ: Actually, my name is 12 

### Marin Angeles Gutierrez, but I'm going to be 13 

### speaking for Karen Graimey, K-a-r-e-n 14 

### G-r-a-i-m-e-y. 15

### MS. KEMPER: We'll also need yours as 16


### well. 17

### MS. GUTIERREZ: My name is Marin Angeles, 18 

### M-a-r-i-n A-n-g-e-l-e-s, last name Gutierrez, 19 

### G-u-t-i-e-r-r-e-z. 20


### MS. KEMPER: Thanks. 21

### MS. GUTIERREZ: Hello. My name is Karen 22219

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### Graimey. I am a member of the Georgia Sierra 1 

### Club, living in Savannah, Georgia. I'm sorry I 2 

### cannot be there to testify in person but I 3 

### appreciate the opportunity to have my testimony 4


### read. 5 

### A little over 3 weeks ago, the Georgia 6 

### coast experienced dramatically high king tides 7 

### which flooded roads and property for 3 days. The 8 

### causeway to Tybee Island near Savannah was 9 

### completely submerged. While it is true that 10 

### tidal flooding events are nothing new, they are 11 

### becoming much more severe and more frequent as 12 

### the sea level rises. 13

### The Union of Concerned Scientists 14 

### published a study last year which examines the 15 

### problem, with Tybee being one of the locations 16 

### looked at. According to the study, tidal 17 

### flooding occurred on Tybee 5 or fewer times per 18 

### year, 40 years ago. Today it occurs around 10 19 

### times a year. They project that by 2030 it will 20 

### happen 30 times a year, and by 2045, Tybee can 21 

### expect to endure floods 100 times a year. 22220

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### It is hard to imagine anyone wanting to 1 

### live in Tybee under those conditions. 2 

### Recognizing that all the low-lying areas along 3 

### her coast will be experiencing a similar increase 4 

### in flooding, one can only conclude that Georgia's 5 

### coastal communities are headed for serious 6


### trouble. 7 

### If this isn't bad enough, consider the 8 

### likelihood that sea level will submerge large 9 

### portions of that ecological and valuable salt 10 

### marshes of the Georgia coast, a prospect I find 11 

### painful to contemplate. Sadly, the coastal flood 12 

### land project projected by scientists is 13 

### unavoidable. If greenhouse gas emissions were 14 

### miraculously stopped today it would not prevent 15 

### the 100-flood-per-year scenario from occurring on 16 

### Tybee Island 30 years from now. But if we do 17 

### everything we can to eliminate greenhouse gas 18 

### emissions we might be able to prevent an even 19 

### worse situation. 20

### I am testifying today to let you know 21 

### that the political leaders in Georgia, who are 22221

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### fighting the implementation of the Clean Power 1 

### Plan are failing to represent vital interests of 2 

### their own citizens. All of us on the coast who 3 

### are aware of the problem are counting on the EPA 4 

### to issue and enforce a strong Federal 5 

### Implementation Plan which will achieve the 6 

### maximum possible reductions under the framework 7


### of the Clean Power Plan. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. I just have one 10 

### clarifying. You referenced a study on tide 11 

### frequency increase. You may not have it with 12 

### you, and I understand you're speaking on somebody 13 

### else's behalf, but to the extent that that can be 14 

### sent to -- the actual reference for the study can 15 

### be sent to us, that's helpful. 16

### MS. GUTIERREZ: Okay. Yes, I'll let her 17


### know. 18

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Any other 19 

### questions? 20

### [No audible response.] 21

### MS. KEMPER: Reverend Flippin. 22222

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### REV. FLIPPIN: Yes. Thank you so much 1 

### for this opportunity. My name is Reverend 2 

### William Edward Flippin, Jr. I represent the 3 

### pastor of the Emmanuel Lutheran Church here in 4 

### southwest Atlanta, but also the Georgia NAACP, 5 

### where I serve as third vice president. Thank you 6 

### so much for this opportunity to offer this 7 

### comment as a stakeholder for the Sierra Club. 8 

### I am here today to speak in support of 9


### EPA's Clean Power Plan and comment on the 10 

### recently proposed Federal Implementation Plan, 11 

### particularly as we know that the Clean Power Plan 12 

### would prevent approximately 100- to 200,000 13 

### asthmatic attacks and up to 6- to 10,000 14 

### premature deaths. 15

### But more on a practical note, I come to 16 

### you with a quote by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 17 

### He says that "when machines and computers, profit 18 

### motives and property rights are considered more 19 

### important than people, the giant triplets of 20 

### racism, militarism, and economic exploitation are 21 

### incapable of being conquered." The Apostle Paul 22223

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### even says that "we wrestle not against flesh and 1 

### blood but principalities in high places." So we 2 

### can have many, many hearings, we can have many, 3 

### many discussions, but I believe that many of the 4 

### realities of the things are systemic and 5 

### sometimes beyond our control. 6 

### But one thing that I do know is that it's 7 

### important that we value people, because we are 8 

### all caught up in the same mutuality, in the human 9 

### condition of self-respect in our cities, even the 10 

### city of Atlanta, the city that says it's too busy 11 

### to hate. We children that are the products of 12 

### our inner-city that are dying for lack of health 13 

### care, the environment, that within the African 14 

### American and minority communities you see waste 15 

### and dumps and pollutants in our previous waters. 16

### And I come to you that I believe that 17 

### these are worth saving, both restoring and worth 18 

### the price of redemption and even the cost of 19 

### crucifixion. 20

### These are the growing passionate moments 21 

### on the battlefield. These are the still waters 22224

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### that we were talking about. And in listening, as 1 

### you are, we are called to justice and restore the 2 

### communities that are affected by so many systemic 3 

### realities. 4 

### I believe that Dr. Martin Luther King, 5 

### Jr., and many others would be crying out against 6 

### any coal-fired plants which produces dangerous 7 

### pollutants into the air and drain our waters. 8 

### Even before the first official Earth Day in 1970, 9 

### King believed in environmental justice, the 10 

### shaping of the beloved community, that we believe 11 

### that God created a perfect community to a point 12 

### that he said that it was -- God said it was good, 13 

### but that we have a responsibility as humans to 14 

### cry out for the strength of the journey, to be 15 

### cognizant of the single mom trying to survive on 16 

### welfare with three kids and getting an education, 17 

### a spouse who's been working long hours and trying 18 

### to hold the family together. And I believe that 19 

### we can and will be, based on the human condition, 20 

### sustainers of God's perfect and just creation and 21 

### this reality of environmental justice. 22225

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### Thank you. 1 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. I wanted to ask 2 

### you, before you move, to spell your first and 3 

### last name for the court reporter. 4 

### REV. FIPPIN: Sure. Sure. Sure. First 5 

### name, William, W-i-l-l-i-a-m, E., Flippin, 6 

### F-l-i-p-p-i-n. I definitely want you to 7 

### distinguish between me and my dad, who is a known 8 

### person in the city -- Junior. 9 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 10

### REV. FLIPPIN: Thank you. Thank you so 11


### much. 12

### MS. KEMPER: Rodney Russell and Paul 13 

### Galetti. 14

### Yes, just a reminder. Any written copies 15 

### you have, the court reporter will take. 16

### And then just begin when you're ready. 17

### MR. GALETTI: My name is Paul Galetti, 18 

### P-a-u-l G-a-l-e-t-t-i. I'm a student at 19 

### Appalachian State University in Boone, North 20 

### Carolina. 21

### North Carolina has been one of the many 22226

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### vocal opponents against the Clean Power Plan. 1 

### They have created a plan that would not cut 2 

### emissions to accepted levels until 2030. This 3 

### would force the EPA to step in, and at the rate 4 

### climate change is occurring, we don't have the 15 5 

### years to wait for that plan to work. This type 6 

### of plan would also discourage renewable energy 7 

### from being adopted as quickly as with the Clean 8 

### Power Act. A business argument exists for this 9 

### plan as well. 10

### North Carolina is on the rebound after an 11 

### evolving economy and taking a lead in creating 12 

### new green jobs that offer an opportunity for 13 

### growth. Taking advantage of advanced energy 14 

### technologies and services would be the low-cost, 15 

### high-growth route to the Clean Power Plan working 16 

### for North Carolina. Continually allowing plants 17 

### to spew endless emissions into the air does not 18 

### show America to be the leader in reducing 19 

### emissions and preserving our planet, which is the 20


### leader we need to be. 21


### That's all. 22227

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### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 1 

### MR. RUSSELL: Thank you for the 2 

### opportunity to speak today. My name is Rodney J. 3 

### Russell and I am the President with the Lambda 4 

### Chapter for the American Association of Blacks in 5 

### Energy. Today I am here representing our 6 

### chapter. 7 

### AABE is a national association of energy 8 

### professionals bounded and dedicated to ensure 9 

### African Americans and other minorities have a 10 

### voice in the development of energy policy and 11 

### related environmental issues. Our chapter 12 

### provided comments last year in regards to the 13 

### proposed ruling. We still have significant 14 

### concerns about EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 15 

### We want clean air for all of our communities. 16

### However, we believe any approach must be 17 

### balanced, fair, and take into consideration the 18 

### impacts to communities, economic development, 19 

### health, jobs, and the price of electricity. The 20 

### rule, as proposed, will significantly increase 21 

### electric costs across the country, and 22228

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### particularly in Georgia. Those who cannot afford 1 

### these increases will be impacted the most. We 2 

### must find a fair and balanced way to achieve the 3 

### objective of the proposed ruling in a manner that 4 

### is consistent and cost-effective. 5 

### Currently, generating units are 6 

### dispatched based primarily on the economics to 7 

### ensure the most cost-effective generating units 8 

### are dispatched first. This rule appears to 9 

### largely eliminate economic dispatch in favor of 10 

### environmental dispatch, without regard to cost. 11

### For example, to develop the state12 

### specific goal, EPA assumes the utility will shift 13 

### generation from coal units to natural gas units, 14 

### and EPA assumes natural gas units across the 15 

### country will run at a 75 percent capacity factor 16 

### or more. EPA must understand that if those 17 

### natural gas units are the most cost-effective 18 

### way, they would already be running at higher 19


### levels. 20

### EPA also assumes that generation will be 21 

### shifted to renewable energy -- wind, solar, and 22229

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### possibly biomass. While AABE supports renewable 1 

### energy, it must be cost-effective. By 2 

### eliminating the focus of the cost of energy 3 

### resources, this plan will likely increase natural 4 

### gas prices. I am no economist but basic 5 

### principles of supply and demand dictates the 6 

### increased demand for natural gas will increase 7 

### natural gas prices. Additionally, the cost of 8 

### goods and services will drive more industry and 9 

### manufacturing jobs overseas. We have to be 10 

### careful to avoid unintended consequences by the 11 

### well-intended. 12

### The bottom line? Higher electricity 13 

### bills, higher heating bills, and more expensive 14 

### goods and services and fewer jobs. All of these 15 

### have a disproportionate impact on those who are 16 

### least able to manage these impacts, that is, our 17 

### small business owners, and families and 18 

### individuals who are on fixed or low income. 19

### We need to make progress on climate 20 

### change goals and commitments, but we must find 21 

### solutions that minimizes the risk of cost 22230

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### increases and do not eat the cost for those least 1


### able to beat the barrel. 2 

### Again, we support a holistic approach to 3 

### leading the rising demand of electricity. While 4 

### it is not a silver bullet, broad deployment of 5 

### energy efficiency measures will be important to 6 

### reducing impact of rising utility bills. AABE 7 

### strongly supports energy efficiency and serves as 8 

### a resource on this issue for energy consumers, 9 

### especially in underserved communities. But we 10 

### cannot do it alone. Energy efficiency measures 11 

### and education must be made available to small 12 

### businesses and low- and fixed-income families and 13 

### individuals because these are the ones that will 14 

### benefit the most from the energy savings. 15

### We believe the best strategy will strike 16 

### a balance between cost-effective emission 17 

### reductions and economic growth and prosperity for 18 

### everyone. The proposed ruling does not achieve 19 

### this objective. 20

### Thank you very much for the opportunity 21 

### to provide my comments. 22231

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### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Could you spell 1 

### both your first and last names? 2 

### MR. RUSSELL: My first name is 3 

### R-o-d-n-e-y, middle initial J, last name is 4


### R-u-s-s-e-l-l. 5 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 6 

### Leanne Townsend and Djuan Coleon, and I 7 

### apologize to anybody for mispronouncing their 8 

### names. I'm doing the best I can. 9 

### If you'll begin by stating your first and 10 

### last name and spelling it for the court reporter. 11 

### Thank you. 12

### MS. TOWNSEND: My name is Leanne 13


### Townsend. It's L-e-a-n-n-e T-o-w-n-s-e-n-d. And 14 

### I'm here as a mother and a resident of the state 15 

### of Alabama to represent my great state. I have 16 

### two children and a nephew that I raise most of 17 

### the time who suffers from asthma, and I feel 18 

### like, as a mom, it's incumbent on me to teach my 19 

### kids to stay involved, and to stay active, and to 20 

### stay aware of what's happening in the world 21 

### around them. And so that's why I came here 22232

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### today, to be sure that I was a part of the 1 

### process of the hearing, and stating my support 2 

### for the Clean Energy Act. 3 

### Having worked around politics in Alabama 4 

### for a long time there's one thing I know, and 5 

### that is the power of the energy companies in 6 

### Alabama, in the political sphere, and I know that 7 

### left to their own devices with no federal 8 

### protections in place, they may not work as hard 9 

### as they could to protect the clean air and water 10 

### that we need in Alabama. I appreciate the plan 11 

### proposed by the FEC and I'm here to support it. 12

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 13

### MR. COLEON: Good afternoon. My name is 14 

### Djuan Coleon. That's D-j-u-a-n, last name 15 

### C-o-l-e-o-n, and I'm with Project Urban Renewable 16 

### Energy. And also, I just wanted to say that, 17 

### first of all, I wanted to quote Dr. King, because 18 

### I used to work at the Martin Luther King Center 19 

### here in Atlanta before I started my nonprofit, 20 

### Project Urban Renewable Energy, and the whole 21 

### point or purpose of my organization was to try to 22233

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### help further the beloved community. 1 

### Dr. King said, "We must passionately and 2 

### conceivably raise the gulf between our scientific 3 

### progress and our moral progress. One of the 4 

### great problems of mankind is that we suffer from 5 

### a poverty of spirit which stands in glaring 6 

### contrast to our scientific and technological 7 

### abundance. The richer we have become materially, 8 

### the poorer we have become morally and 9 

### spiritually." 10

### And I think that's where we are now, as I 11 

### come in and applaud the President for making this 12 

### first step with the Clean Power Plan, to try to 13 

### address the technological advances that we have 14 

### as a society. We also are in the midst with how 15 

### do we deal with the least of these in the 16 

### vulnerable communities. My mother-in-law, she 17 

### was able to get her house completely retrofitted 18 

### in 2011, under President Obama's plan, to help 19 

### senior citizens who have issues with their home. 20 

### She was able to get her windows more energy 21 

### efficient, her heating system repaired. She's on 22234

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### a fixed income. 1 

### And so when we look at advances with 2 

### technology as far as with solar, wind, geotherm, 3 

### my concern is, yes, we should further put the 4 

### press on so that we can deal with the 5 

### disproportionate amount of toxic and hazardous 6 

### wastes that are in vulnerable communities. EPA 7 

### studies have shown that that 9 out of 10 of the 8 

### EPA regions have shown disproportionate amount of 9 

### toxic and hazardous waste located in black and 10 

### brown communities. 11

### But for someone like my mother-in-law, 12 

### she's on a fixed income. My thing would be I'm 13 

### out in the community, I see what people are 14 

### actually dealing with. I don't know if she would 15 

### be able to deal with the transition unless there 16 

### is a significant amount of government help. 17

### I also recently went to Africatown in 18 

### Mobile, which is a historic site where the last 19 

### known slave ship came to America, and they are 20 

### facing a lot of previous pollution issues with 21 

### the paper industry, they're dealing with Canadian 22235

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### tar sands being shipped from Canada to the port. 1 

### But the main issue that you're seeing is that the 2 

### people don't have the income and the ability to 3 

### be able to deal with the situations they have. A 4 

### lot of people down there don't have home 5 

### insurance on their house. It may only cost $400 6 

### to put home insurance on a house, and so they 7 

### can't even quality for the government subsidies 8 

### to help build and retrofit their house because 9 

### they can't afford the insurance. 10

### So as we think about the Clean Power 11 

### Plan, and we think about how we need to make this 12 

### advance to created a beloved community, we also 13 

### have to think about, realistically, how that's 14 

### going to affect all stakeholders, because we 15 

### can't make the assumption that everybody will 16 

### just figure it out and they'll just be able to 17 

### get on board and make the changes. 18

### I'm out in the streets and I'm seeing the 19 

### people that are dealing with the issues that they 20 

### already have. It's not that they don't want to 21 

### have access to new technology. It's just that 22236

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### they're struggling to keep up with what we have 1 

### now. So we have to make sure that exchanges are 2 

### affordable and be able to affect and help all 3 

### people, from the top to the bottom, as Dr. King 4


### would have us do so. 5 

### MS. KEMPER: Questions? 6 

### [No audible response.] 7 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 8 

### Mark Berry. Whenever you're ready you 9 

### may state your first and last name and spell it 10 

### for the court reporter. 11

### MR. BERRY: Okay. My name is Mark Berry. 12 

### M-a-r-k B-e-r-r-y. And I am the Vice President 13 

### of Environmental Affairs at Georgia Power, a 14 

### subsidiary of Southern Company and Georgia's 15 

### largest electricity supplier. Southern Company's 16 

### subsidiaries include three other vertically 17 

### integrated, regulated electric utilities -- 18 

### Alabama Power, Gulf Power, and Mississippi Power 19 

### -- as well as Southern Power, which owns 20 

### generation assets and sells electricity in the 21


### wholesale market. 22237

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### As a company, we are committed to 1 

### providing clean, safe, reliable, and affordable 2 

### electricity to 4.5 million customers by 3 

### maintaining a diverse generation fleet. My 4 

### comments today are on behalf of Southern Company 5 

### and its subsidiaries. 6 

### Southern Company and the nation's 7 

### generation fleets are already changing due to 8 

### numerous environmental rules and economic 9 

### considerations. Amid these changes, maintaining 10 

### reliable and affordable energy service is a 11 

### critical ingredient to our states' growth and 12 

### economic well-being. 13

### The Clean Power Plan, however, 14 

### jeopardizes future reliable and affordable energy 15 

### service. EPA's own analysis of the Clean Power 16 

### Plan predicts severe consequences to the 17 

### Southeast, including the premature closing of 18 

### more than 9,000 megawatts of fossil fuel-fired 19 

### units, representing 20 percent of Southern 20 

### Company's generating capacity. These premature 21 

### retirements would result in significant impacts 22238

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### to both our customers and our employees. EPA 1 

### must get the federal plan and model trading rules 2 

### correct. Today we offer comments regarding four 3



### concerns. 4 

### First, EPA should provide the public an 5 

### opportunity to comment on state-specific federal 6 

### plan proposals. EPA must evaluate numerous 7 

### state-specific considerations prior to finalizing 8 

### a state's federal plan, including the remaining 9 

### useful lives of the sources; the unreasonable 10 

### cost or physical impossibility of controlling CO2 11 

### emissions; and reliability implications that may 12 

### make a less stringent standard or a longer 13 

### compliance schedule reasonable. 14

### An accurate evaluation can only be 15 

### completed by affording stakeholders the 16 

### opportunity to provide input to EPA on their 17 

### unique knowledge of the state's electric 18 

### generation fleet and transmission grid. We 19 

### strongly urge EPA to allow for stakeholder input 20 

### on state-specific federal plan proposals. 21

### Second, EPA and states should develop 22239

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### plans best suited for the citizens in each state. 1 

### However, EPA plans to finalize only one federal 2 

### plan pathway, either rate-based or mass-based, 3 

### with limited compliance options. EPA is ignoring 4 

### the negative impacts certain federal plan 5 

### pathways may have on a state. We urge EPA to 6 

### retain both rate- and mass-based pathways for 7 

### federal plans that may be issued to individual 8 

### states and to broaden the available compliance 9 

### options to resemble the options available to 10 

### states in the Clean Power Plan. 11

### Third, EPA must adequately address 12 

### reliability concerns in the proposed federal plan 13 

### and model trade rules. EPA's decision not to 14 

### include a reliability assessment and a 15 

### reliability safety mechanism is irresponsible. 16 

### In fact, EPA's proposed federal plan does not 17 

### meet the same standards for addressing 18 

### reliability that EPA requires in the Clean Power 19 

### Plan. In the proposal, EPA states that "the very 20 

### nature of the federal plan, in which affected 21 

### EGUs can obtain allowances or credits if needs, 22240

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### supports reliability." This reasoning is based 1 

### on an allowance or credit market that may or may 2 

### not materialize. This is an unacceptable and 3 

### unproven mechanism to address reliability 4



### concerns. 5 

### Finally, EPA should not attempt to 6 

### double-regulate new, unaffected sources through 7 

### Section 111(d). Suggesting that a federal plan 8 

### or model trading rule would double-regulate new 9 

### sources in order to achieve EPA's best system of 10 

### emission reduction for existing sources is 11 

### unprecedented and not allowed under the Clean Air 12


### Act. 13

### Southern Company appreciates EPA's 14 

### consideration of these concerns, and we look 15 

### forward to EPA addressing them to ensure reliable 16 

### and affordable energy service remains throughout 17


### the Southeast. 18

### Thank you. 19

### MS. KEMPER: Any questions? 20

### DR. MITCHELL: Yeah. I had a clarifying 21 

### question. On the first point, did I understand 22241

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### you to mean that if a FIP were to be imposed in a 1 

### state that the public should have an ability to 2 

### review and comment? 3 

### MR. BERRY: That is correct. 4 

### DR. MITCHELL: Okay. Thank you. 5 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. I appreciate 6 

### your comments. 7 

### MR. BERRY: Thank you so much. 8 

### MS. KEMPER: And if you have written 9 

### comments and you're able to leave them with the 10 

### court reporter that would be very helpful. 11

### MR. BERRY: We will do that. Thank you. 12

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 13

### We will take another short break and 14


### reconvene around four o'clock. 15

### [Break taken from 3:47 to 4:29 p.m.] 16

### MS. KEMPER: So I'd like to call up Sam 17 

### Collier and Joshua Hanthorn as our next speakers. 18

### Just a few helpful hints on speaking. If 19 

### you'll both be seated at the speakers' table, and 20 

### when it's your turn to speak state your name and 21 

### then spell both your first and last names, and if 22242

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### you have any written comments that you're 1 

### prepared to share, the court reporter is here to 2 

### take them. You have 5 minutes and there is a 3 

### timer here that Colin is operating. So you'll 4 

### get a green light, a yellow light -- that's your 5 

### 1 minutes warning -- and then the red light means 6 

### what it normally means, which is to stop. 7 

### So with that, please. We can begin with 8 

### him. 9 

### MR. COLLIER: Okay. My name is Sam 10 

### Collier. That's S-a-m, last name is 11 

### C-o-l-l-i-e-r, and I live in Atlanta, Georgia. 12

### I'm here basically in four roles. First 13 

### of all I'm a real estate investor and have 14 

### investments throughout the metro Atlanta area and 15 

### beyond, and secondly I'm here as a rate-payer of 16 

### Georgia power. Thirdly, I’m here as a 17 

### shareholder of Georgia Power, or Southern 18 

### Company, which is a holding company for Georgia 19 

### Power, and fourth, I'm here as a parent. 20

### I want to applaud the EPA for the Clean 21 

### Power Plan, and in every one of my four roles I'm 22243

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### very happy that this action is being taken. As a 1 

### real estate investor, it is very important that 2 

### we have a stable climate, that people don't start 3 

### moving from our areas, based on strange weather 4 

### patterns, overall climatic considerations, and we 5 

### do not want the instability in the real estate 6 

### community for that cause. 7 

### As a rate-payer, I certain want low 8 

### rates, but I don't want low rates at the risk of 9 

### people's health and the stability of the climate. 10 

### So I want rates that embody the cost of 11 

### electricity. I prefer to have clean electricity. 12 

### I'm tired of the double standard of posing 13 

### regulations to protect our health and clean the 14 

### energy supply and then saying that cleaner forms 15 

### are too expensive. It's just a false dichotomy 16 

### and I'm really tired of hearing that. 17

### Third, as a shareholder I have made 18 

### specific requests of Southern Company, that they 19 

### report their carbon through the Carbon Disclosure 20 

### Project, which they stopped doing in 2013 because 21 

### the Carbon Disclosure Project went to letter 22244

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### grade and they got a bad grade. Basically, 1 

### Carbon Disclosure Project is a global system to 2 

### account on how industries across the globe are 3 

### not only dealing with carbon but their management 4 

### structure, and how it's able to give them 5 

### transparency and enough sense so that the rest of 6 

### us know which companies to invest in, based on 7 

### how well their management structure can deal with 8 

### a carbon-constrained world. 9 

### So I'm very concerned that the Southern 10 

### Company, which talks a very good game about clean 11 

### energy -- and also it's doing many good things. 12 

### I've been very happy with some of the things, 13 

### particularly the Southern Power subsidiary has 14 

### been doing to bring clean energy online, but it's 15 

### not fast enough and it's really distressing that 16 

### after talking a big game not only do they not 17 

### report the carbon but they oppose this plan or 18 

### try to weaken it or try to delay it, and I'm very 19 

### upset with Southern Company for talking out of 20 

### both sides of their mouth, essentially, and 21 

### delaying -- making a delay tactic and failing to 22245

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### report includable protocol, while at the same 1 

### time saying that they're doing everything right. 2 

### I think this Clean Power Plan is a good 3 

### start. I think we will need to listen to the 4 

### scientists and do exactly what it takes to reduce 5 

### carbon. And so I think that we will need to do 6 

### things beyond this, and I'm sure that a stronger 7 

### plan was attempted, as best one could, given the 8 

### backlash from the industry. But the industry, in 9 

### my mind, really needs to understand that -- and 10 

### this is where my fourth role comes in, as a 11 

### parent. I do not care for anyone who disregards 12 

### my children's future, in terms of having a stable 13 

### climate that I've enjoyed through my 60 years. 14 

### And I am ready to call out anyone who tries to, 15 

### for short-term profit, delay the inevitable low16 

### carbon world that we are seeking. 17

### Thank you. 18

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 19

### MR. HANTHORN: Hello. My name is Joshua 20 

### Hanthorn, J-o-s-h-u-a H-a-n-t-h-o-r-n, and I 21 

### live in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm here today to 22246

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### speak in support of EPA's Clean Power Plan and 1 

### comment on recent proposed Federal Implementation 2


### Plan as a war veteran. 3 

### A civil war rages on in Syria. We must 4 

### come to grips with that fact, the fact that 5 

### climate change was a major factor in the buildup 6 

### of the conflict. Reference the study proceedings 7 

### of the National Academy of Sciences compiled 8 

### statistics. Researchers in that study 9 

### determined, after examining meteorological data, 10 

### natural bearability alone was unlikely to account 11 

### for the trends in wind, rain, and heat that led 12 

### to the massive drought. This severe drought, 13 

### worsened by warming climate, drove Syrian farmers 14 

### to abandon their crops and flock to cities, 15 

### helping trigger a civil war that killed hundreds 16 

### of thousands of people. 17

### We are also finally coming to terms with 18 

### the effect war has on military personnel. If the 19 

### next President decides that the military will 20 

### intervene in such conflicts in the future, our 21 

### battle with PTSD, war-related injuries, and death 22247

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### will continue. 1 

### Syria is a warning sign that the world 2 

### needs to take climate change seriously. The 3 

### Clean Power Plan is a step in the right direction 4 

### as it is the most significant action taken by a 5 

### President on climate change. 6 

### Mitigating climate change should be this 7 

### country's number one priority because we are not 8 

### ready to take on the adaptation strategies needed 9 

### when climate change takes full effect. We need 10 

### strong control mechanisms to mitigate climate 11 

### change, ensure the carbon pollution standards in 12 

### the model federal plan achieve at least the 13 

### pollution reduction promised in the final Clean 14 

### Power Plan and keep a watchful eye on state 15 

### agencies, particularly in your region. 16

### I'm predicting that there will be a time 17 

### that a state or power company will find loopholes 18 

### in the plan. I have seen the suits Georgia 19 

### Department of National Resources wears and they 20 

### aren't buying them from Target, so something 21 

### tells me public interest is not their top 22248

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### priority. Particularly in the South, the South 1 

### has become the largest exporter of wood pellets, 2 

### painted as green energy. These wood pellets come 3 

### from clear-cutting our national forest and power 4 

### companies can claim burning them as a form of 5 

### clean energy. EPA should prepare for such 6 

### loopholes now, and make sure that the purpose of 7 

### the Clean Power Plan is still carried forward 8 

### through 2030, because let's face it -- it's 9 

### states and corporations that ignore or deny 10 

### climate change that are the biggest national 11 

### security threats. 12

### That is all I have to say. Thank you for 13 

### your time. 14

### MS. KEMPER: I have a clarifying 15 

### question. You referenced a National Academy of 16 

### Science study. 17


### MR. HANTHORN: Yes. 18

### MS. KEMPER: Would you make sure that we 19 

### get the reference to the study, as a part of our 20 

### public comments? 21

### MR. HANTHORN: Yes. No problem. 22249

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### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Any further 1 

### clarification? 2 

### [No audible response.] 3 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 4 

### Seeing that we have no more commenters at 5 

### this time, we will be taking another short break. 6 

### Just to let folks know that we will take 7 

### a longer break at five o'clock that will go from 8 

### five until six. If we have speakers between now 9 

### and five we will have them speak. 10

### ATTENDEE: There is one coming. 11

### MS. KEMPER: We do have a speaker coming, 12


### so we're now off break. 13

### [Laughter.] 14

### MS. KEMPER: We're reconvening. 15

### [Pause.] 16

### MS. KEMPER: Green means go, yellow means 17 

### you have a minute left, and red means stop. When 18 

### you're ready to begin, just state your name and 19 

### spell it for the court reporter. Thank you. 20

### MS. DUTTON: Hi. My name is Nina Dutton, 21 

### N-i-n-a D-u-t-t-o-n. I am from Washington, D.C., 22250

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### but I have been living in Atlanta pretty much for 1 

### the last 8 years, and I am a member of the 2 

### Georgia Sierra Club. Professionally I work in 3 

### public health research. I got a master's degree 4 

### in environmental health. But I'm here today to 5 

### speak in support of EPA's Clean Power Plan and to 6 

### comment on the recently proposed Federal 7 

### Implementation Plan. 8 

### I guess you will have it on record but I 9 

### also made testimony in a report of the draft 10 

### overall Clean Power Plan in 2014. Before that I 11 

### prepared a lot more and I wrote a whole little 12 

### speech. This year I am improvising and at least 13 

### you will be able to know that it is from the 14


### heart. 15

### Okay. So, as you all know, the Clean 16 

### Power Plan is meant to reduce greenhouse gas 17 

### emissions from existing fossil fuel-fired power 18 

### plants, and not only would the Clean Power Plan 19 

### set goals for each state to do that but, in doing 20 

### so, these states would also be cutting down on 21 

### other pollutants coming from the energy sector. 22251

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### This is really important from a public health 1 

### perspective, as I'm sure you've heard today. 2 

### By regulating these plants, the Clean 3 

### Power Plan will lead to significant climate and 4 

### public health benefits for everyone. EPA has 5 

### estimated that by 2030 the Clean Power Plan will 6 

### prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and up to 6,600 7 

### premature deaths annually. That is a lot, and as 8 

### far as side benefits go, that's really 9 

### impressive. And if those are just the side 10 

### benefits, the main intention, which would be to 11 

### curb the effects of the energy sector on climate 12 

### change, that's also really important. 13

### As other people today have also spoken 14 

### about, climate change is a human rights issue. 15 

### It's a health issue. It's an equity issue. 16 

### Communities across the globe are dealing with the 17 

### devastating impacts of climate disruption, 18 

### including families displaced from their homes due 19 

### to extreme weather events, and that's especially 20 

### in the news these days because of the Syrian 21 

### refugee situation, but there are refugees all the 22252

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### time and that number of displaced people is only 1 

### expected to increase. And not only does that 2 

### take a toll on those individuals but also our 3 

### societies as a whole, to have to deal with a 4 

### peoples of that nature. 5 

### The Clean Power Plan does provide great 6 

### opportunities for economic growth and sustainable 7 

### development. Investing in clean energy will 8 

### create jobs and fuel economic growth in our 9 

### country. Considering that a lot of health issues 10 

### and health disparities in our country and in the 11 

### world are very, very closely tied with economic 12 

### disparities, I think that if we can develop 13 

### equitable energy solutions that are not only 14 

### equitable in terms of the effects 15 

### environmentally, in terms of pollution that can 16 

### affect health, if these solutions can also be 17 

### equitable in terms of healthy forms of economic 18 

### development and improvement of living conditions 19 

### for everyone, that would be ideal. 20

### It is -- so, does that yellow light mean 21 

### I have a minute left? 22253

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### MS. KEMPER: Yes. 1 

### MS. DUTTON: So I'm mainly here to say 2 

### that because the Federal Implementation -- sorry, 3 

### because the Clean Power Plan does set goals for 4 

### each state, these goals are doable for each 5 

### state, and I want to let you know that I don't 6 

### want the states to derail your work. I don't 7 

### want the fossil fuel industries or the nuclear 8 

### energy industries to derail your work. This is 9 

### all important and it is doable and it can be 10


### done. 11

### If the states do not have -- if the 12 

### states fail to adopt and implement adequate plans 13 

### for themselves, EPA is required to issue and 14 

### enforce a Federal Implementation Plan and to make 15 

### sure that the federal plan is strong and just. 16

### EPA should and must (1) ensure the carbon 17 

### pollution standards and model federal plan 18 

### achieve the pollution reductions promised in the 19 

### final Clean Power Plan, or even further 20 

### reductions; (2) ensure that states address 21 

### potential carbon pollution for new power plants 22254

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### to achieve overall electric sector reductions in 1 

### carbon pollution; (3) protect low-income 2 

### consumers by maximizing utilities incentives to 3 

### invest in energy efficiency, which lowers 4 

### household energy bills; (4) ensure that the model 5 

### federal plan protects and benefits minority, low6 

### income, and indigenous communities who have long 7 

### borne the brunt of fossil fuel production and may 8 

### be most likely to experience the impacts of 9 

### climate change; and (5) resist giveaways of 10 

### allowances to the most polluting sources. 11

### The Clean Power Plan, if allowed to be 12 

### implemented in the way that it is intended, will 13 

### clean up our air and address climate disruption 14 

### while also modernizing how we power our country 15 

### and our economy, starting innovation and creating 16 

### thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in new 17 

### investments. This is a great opportunity for 18 

### positive change and I hope that can be realized. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you very much. 21

### We are at another break. The hearing is 22255

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### officially recessed until six o'clock when we 1 

### will reconvene. 2 

### [Recess taken from 4:51 to 6:08 p.m.] 3 

### Evening Session 4 

### MS. GETTLE: Good evening. My name is 5 

### Jeananne Gettle and I'm chair of this evening's 6 

### session of the public hearing. Thank you for 7 

### coming today. 8 

### Joining me on the panel are Carol Kemper, 9 

### also from EPA here in Region 4, and Jan Cortalou 10 

### from our headquarters Office of Air Quality 11 

### Planning and Standards. We also have the court 12 

### reporter in the room who will be recording this 13 

### set of sessions. 14

### MS. KEMPER: Fossil fuel-fired power 15 

### plants are the largest source of U.S. carbon 16 

### dioxide emissions, or carbon pollution, 17 

### accounting for 31 percent of U.S. total 18 

### greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing carbon 19 

### pollution from power plants is an essential step 20 

### in lessening the impacts of climate change and 21 

### providing a more certain future for our 22256

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### environment, our health, and future generations. 1 

### We are here today to listen to your 2 

### comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 3 

### model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 4 

### Existing Power Plants. 5 

### On October 23, 2015, the Environmental 6 

### Protection Agency published, in the Federal 7 

### Register, its proposed federal plan to implement 8 

### emission guidelines for power plants under 9 

### Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 10 

### 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 11 

### effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 12 

### affected power plants that began construction on 13 

### or before January 8, 2014. 14

### The federal plan and model trading rules 15 

### demonstrate a readily available path forward for 16 

### Clean Power Plan implementation, and presents 17 

### flexible, affordable implementation options for 18 

### states. The model rules provide a cost-effective 19 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 20 

### the EPA and make it easy for states and power 21 

### plants to use emissions trading. It does the 22257

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### heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 1 

### model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 2 

### implement the federal plan in any state that does 3 

### not submit an approvable plan. 4 

### This proposal includes four discrete 5 

### proposed actions: (1) a rate-based federal plan 6 

### for each state with affected EGUs; (2) a mass7 

### based federal plan for each state with affected 8 

### EGUs; (3) a rate-based model trading rule for 9 

### potential use by any state; and (4) a mass-based 10 

### model trading rule for potential use by any 11


### state. 12

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 13 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 14 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 15 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 16 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 17 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 18 

### 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 19 

### in the emission guidelines. 20

### In those states where a federal plan may 21 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 22258

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### the same emission guidelines for affected power 1 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 2 

### would not require additional control requirements 3 

### or impose additional costs. Even where a federal 4 

### plan is put in place for a particular state, that 5 

### state will still be able to submit a plan which, 6 

### if approved, will allow the state and its sources 7 

### to exit the federal plan. 8 

### States may take delegation of 9 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 10 

### order to become the primary implementers, or 11 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 12 

### the implementation of a portion of the federal 13 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 14 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 15 

### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 16 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 17

### The proposal also includes a model rule 18 

### for those states that are developing their own 19 

### state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 20 

### the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 21 

### in the summer of 2016. A state program that 22259

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### adheres to the model trading rule provisions 1 

### specified in this rulemaking, when final, would 2 

### be presumptively approvable. 3 

### There are stand-alone portions of the 4 

### model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 5 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 6 

### emission rate credits that would be approvable 7 

### even if a state adopted an approach that differs 8 

### in other respects from the model rule. 9 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 10 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 11 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 12 

### affected EGUs located in Indian country. CO2 13 

### emission performance rates for these facilities 14 

### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. Also in 15 

### the proposal is information on how the EPA will 16 

### reach out to communities throughout the comment 17 

### period and an overview of the actions that EPA is 18 

### taking to ensure that vulnerable communities are 19 

### not being disproportionately impacted by this 20 

### rulemaking. 21

### If you would like more details on the 22260

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### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 1 

### the registration desk. 2 

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 3 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 4 

### that will help to make today's hearing run 5 

### smoothly. First, please be sure you've checked 6 

### in at the registration desk, even if you are not 7 

### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 8 

### speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 9 

### you are here, please step out to the registration 10 

### desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 11 

### arrived. 12

### I will call speakers up in pairs. When 13 

### your name is called, please come to the speakers' 14


### table at the front of the room. When I call on 15 

### you to speak, please state your name, and spell 16 

### it for the court reporter. Please spell both 17 

### your first and last names. Your comments will be 18 

### transcribed and included in the record of 19 

### comments on the proposed rule. 20

### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 21 

### comments. We have a timer light to help you know 22261

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### how much time you have left to speak. When the 1 

### light turns from green to yellow, that means you 2 

### have 1 minute remaining. When it turns red, 3 

### that's a signal that you are at 5 minutes and it 4 

### is time to stop. When you are finished speaking, 5 

### please remain at the table until the person next 6 

### to you has completed his or her testimony. 7 

### We are here to listen to you today. 8 

### However, a panel member may ask questions to 9 

### clarify your comments. 10

### I will then call up the next pair of 11 

### speakers, and so on. If you've brought a copy of 12 

### your written testimony, please give that to the 13 

### court reporter before you leave this room. We 14 

### will put any written comments submitted today in 15 

### the official docket for the proposed rule. 16

### We also have comment cards available at 17 

### the registration desk, if you would like to 18 

### submit additional written comments today. If you 19 

### want to comment in writing later, stop by the 20 

### materials table near the registration desk and 21 

### pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 22262

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### written comments. Comments must be received by 1 

### January 21, 2016. 2 

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 3 

### much consideration to comments we receive in 4 

### writing as we do to comments we receive at public 5 

### hearings like this one. So if you have more 6 

### comments that you would like to provided the EPA, 7 

### please submit them by the comment period 8 

### deadline. Your comments will be reviewed. 9 

### If you have any questions during this 10 

### evening, please see the staff at the registration 11 

### desk, and someone will assist you. 12

### Thank you again for taking the time today 13 

### to share your comments on EPA's proposal, and 14 

### we'll get started now. 15

### MS. GETTLE: Bob James. You can begin 16 

### any time. 17

### MR. JAMES: Okay. My name is Bob James 18 

### and I am here on behalf of myself as a citizen 19 

### but I'm also affiliated as a volunteer with the 20 

### Citizens Climate Lobby, and I am here to express 21 

### my appreciation for the fact that the EPA has 22263

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### done something very important, I think, for the 1 

### nation and the world, to show leadership in 2 

### reducing greenhouse emissions. 3 

### I am also here to express concern about 4 

### what is the most effective way to accomplish 5 

### that, and I have specific policy that the 6 

### Citizens Climate Lobby does endorse, that I think 7 

### does a very good job of doing. It's called the 8 

### Carbon Fee and Dividend Policy. It is a policy 9 

### that will not only reduce the greenhouse 10 

### emissions but it will also increase economic 11 

### activity. 12

### It is similar to the Pigovian taxation 13 

### method in that it's assessing a fee or a tax -- 14 

### we prefer to call it a fee since it's revenue15 

### neutral -- on the social costs of greenhouse 16 

### emissions, which, of course, as you laid out as 17 

### the reasons for the EPA Clean Power Plan, having 18 

### to do with all of the health reasons as well as 19 

### environmental hazards. 20

### The plan itself is assessing a fee at the 21 

### point of production and at the border for those 22264

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### countries that do not have a similar type policy. 1 

### For that reason, since it's two-sided, it 2 

### provides a very good economic balanced approach. 3 

### It grows the economy because the fee will be 4 

### collected and monthly distributed back to each 5 

### household in the nation, and there's a particular 6 

### ratio that the particular policy lays out. It 7 

### would not exceed something like 2.8 members per 8


### household. 9 

### But the idea is it would offset the cost 10 

### of the rising fees that would result from the 11 

### increased fee of the production of the fossil 12 

### fuel. The fee itself is assessed on the amount 13 

### of tonnage, per unit of tonnage that is resulting 14 

### from the extraction of the fossil fuel. Figure 15 

### that the accountants have some actuarial studies 16 

### that, they know just about how much carbon 17 

### emissions, and certainly there's a higher fee for 18 

### methane, because methane has a little bit more 19 

### hazards to it. 20

### So, fundamentally, that is the program. 21 

### Fifteen dollars has been the proposed fee at the 22265

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### beginning of the year, and then increasing each 1 

### year until the stated percentages of reduced 2 

### greenhouse emissions are accomplished, which they 3 

### state out to be 50 percent of the 1990 standard 4 

### of emissions. 5 

### We think that this is a good approach 6 

### because it will encourage cleaner alternative 7 

### energy activity and investment through the pre8 

### market system, and not impose -- and the cost 9 

### itself, going back to each household, as a 10 

### dividend, so to speak, would provide, for many 11 

### people, actually enough income to spur the 12 

### economy, making purchases that they normally 13 

### wouldn't, and for others it would help them 14 

### offset the rising cost. 15

### So I think that the program is something 16 

### worth considering. I'm understanding that within 17 

### the Clean Power Plan there is a lot diversity in 18 

### terms of how the reduction is accomplished in 19 

### each states. I think that the carbon fee and 20 

### dividend would probably be best accomplished if 21 

### it was a national policy because it could become 22266

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### very complicated if it was done in individual 1 

### states. But as a national policy, we would have 2 

### a uniform implementation. 3 

### In a nutshell, that's about what it is. 4 

### Essentially, I think that the participation of 5 

### each individual -- oh, there's another aspect to 6 

### it that I think is good, and that is the fact 7 

### that it's more transparent. Since there's a lot 8 

### of aspects of trading, it gets lost on the 9 

### general public, and when they receive back this 10 

### dividend in their SNAP payment or in their Social 11 

### Security or in an automated deposit into their 12 

### account, or if by a check, if they want it, they 13 

### will realize, okay, we're doing something that 14 

### this nation and the world needs. 15

### In a nutshell, that's it. Do you have 16 

### any questions? 17

### MS. KEMPER: Do you all have any 18 

### questions? 19

### [No audible response.] 20

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. But before you 21 

### leave the table could you please spell your first 22267

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### and last name for the court reporter? 1


### MR. JAMES: Sure. It's B-o-b and 2


### J-a-m-e-s. 3 

### MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 4 

### MS. GETTLE: The next speaker is Derek 5 

### Jaworski. 6 

### Before you make your statement if you 7 

### could spell your name, first and last, for the 8 

### court reporter please. 9 

### MR. JAWORSKI: Yeah. My name is Derek 10 

### Jaworski, D-e-r-e-k, last name J-a-w-o-r-s-k-i. 11

### Hello, and as I said, my name is Derek 12 

### Jaworski. I live here in Atlanta, Georgia, and I 13 

### appreciate the opportunity to comment on this, I 14 

### think, potentially historic plan. 15

### I'm here today to mostly speak in support 16 

### of it and comment on the Federal Implementation 17 

### Plan. I believe that Obama and EPA have 18 

### finalized this historic plan that I believe helps 19 

### provide essential safeguards to our air and 20 

### water. It also creates a critical tool for 21 

### helping to combat climate change by states and 22268

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### provides them the ability to develop and 1 

### implement these standards at local jurisdictions, 2 

### by providing and writing state-specific controls. 3 

### I think this gives the states the ability 4 

### to be flexible and can decide the appropriate 5 

### emissions reductions that work for them. It will 6 

### allow states, like here in Georgia, to come up 7 

### with innovative ways of meeting the requirements 8 

### that will take advantage of their unique 9 

### economic, political, and geographic 10 

### circumstances. 11

### I believe that implementing the Clean 12 

### Power Plan at this time is essential for a few 13 

### reasons. First, simply, fossil fuel-fired power 14 

### plants are the largest source of greenhouse gases 15 

### and are the major contributor to climate change. 16 

### Also, fossil fuel plants contribute immensely to 17 

### respiratory and heart disease for those who live 18 

### nearby them. However, if we implement this plan, 19 

### it is predicted that 150,000 asthma attacks and 20 

### up to 6,600 premature deaths annual will be 21 

### avoided. These health impacts caused by fossil 22269

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### fuel plants have a major economic consequence as 1 

### well. Coal pollution in the United States 2 

### results in more than $10 billion annually in 3 

### health costs and more than 12,000 emergency 4 

### visits per year. 5 

### Here in Georgia we stand specifically to 6 

### lose a lot if climate change projections become a 7 

### reality. Losses to climate change-related storms 8 

### along the Georgia shoreline are likely to 9 

### increase by as much as $118 million per year, 10 

### according to a report by the Risky Business 11 

### Project. 12

### Many here in Georgia, especially, have 13 

### made arguments that there will be heavy economic 14 

### costs caused by this plan. I think this is 15 

### incorrect for a few reasons. Firstly, 16 

### significant carbon pollution reductions are 17 

### already underway as a result of coal plant 18 

### retirements and our beginnings of renewable 19 

### energy investments. In fact, here in Georgia 20 

### we've already started reaping the economic 21 

### benefits of renewable energy. 22270

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### According to the Solar Energy Industries 1 

### Association, there are already more than 173 2 

### companies at work in Georgia, investing $189 3 

### million to install solar on homes. Georgia's 4 

### clean energy also provides 19,000 full-time jobs, 5 

### which is more than Georgia Power's entire 6


### workforce. 7 

### With all this in mind, in order to ensure 8 

### that the draft is strong, I urge the EPA to 9 

### ensure that carbon pollution standards in the 10 

### model federal plan achieve the pollution 11 

### reductions promised in the final Clean Power Plan 12 

### or even further their reductions. Secondly, I 13 

### would like to ensure that states address 14 

### potential carbon pollution from new power plants 15 

### to achieve their overall electric sector 16 

### reductions in carbon pollution. 17

### Thirdly, I would like EPA to ensure that 18 

### low-income consumers are protected by maximizing 19 

### utilities' incentives to invest in energy 20 

### efficiency, which lowers household energy bills. 21 

### I would also like EPA to ensure that the plan 22271

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### protects and benefits minorities, low-income, and 1 

### indigenous communities. And finally, I would 2 

### like EPA to resist any giveaways or allowances to 3 

### the most polluting sources. 4 

### So I would just, again, like to reiterate 5 

### that I think this is a really good plan and could 6 

### lead to spurring great economic innovation and 7 

### also be a first in many steps of combating 8 

### climate change. 9 

### Thank you. 10

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any questions? 11

### [No audible response.] 12

### MS. GETTLE: No, we don't have any 13 

### questions. If you would like to you can leave a 14 

### copy of your statement with the court reporter. 15


### MR. JAWORSKI: Sure. I'll do that. 16


### Yeah. 17

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 18

### Our next speaker is Flannery Keck. 19

### Ms. Keck, before you begin your 20 

### statement, if you would please spell your first 21 

### and last name for the court reporter. 22272

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### MS. KECK: Sure. Flannery, 1 

### F-l-a-n-n-e-r-y, Keck, K-e-c-k. 2 

### Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 3 

### I am a member of the Atlanta Chapter of the 4 

### Citizens Climate Lobby, and I am here to speak in 5 

### support of the Clean Power Plan. 6 

### The Clean Power Plan puts in place 7 

### historic safeguards to protect our air, our 8 

### water, our climate, and the health of our 9 

### communities, specifically by addressing emissions 10 

### from fossil fuel-fired power plants. These 11 

### plants are the largest source of greenhouse gas 12 

### emissions and are thus a major contributor to 13 

### climate change. Carbon emissions from power 14 

### plants represent 40 percent of the total CO2 15 

### emissions in the United States. Power plants 16 

### also emit convention and toxic air pollutants 17 

### that contribute to respiratory and heart 18 

### diseases, as well as premature death. 19

### Clean air is a human rights issue. 20 

### Without it, communities experience devastating 21 

### impacts. For example, just this month in China, 22273

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### as their coal-fired plants kicked into gear for 1 

### winter, air pollution levels in the Shenyang 2 

### province reached almost 50 times the World Health 3 

### Organization's recommended level. Schools had to 4 

### stop outdoor activities and residents were told 5 

### to stay indoors. One resident was quoted as 6 

### saying, "When you go out, you feel the air burns 7 

### your eyes, your throat hurts, so you go buy a 8 

### mask, but it's not really clear what we should 9 

### specifically be doing." 10

### And that's devastating. People are 11 

### trying to fill the gap their governments have 12 

### left with flimsy paper masks. But still, they're 13 

### trying. And here, individual people are also 14 

### doing as much we can to protect ourselves from 15 

### pollution, from high emissions, and climate 16 

### change. We're biking instead of driving, when we 17 

### can. We're powering our homes with solar, when 18 

### we can. But it's going to take more than that, 19 

### because there's only so much individuals can do 20



### on our own. 21

### We must have strong institutional 22274

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### leadership to protect clean air. EPA has 1 

### estimated that by 2030, the Clean Power Plan will 2 

### prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and up to 6,600 3 

### premature deaths annually. In addition, the 4 

### Clean Power Plan provides great opportunities for 5 

### economic growth and sustainable development. 6 

### Investing in clean energy will create jobs and 7 

### fuel economic growth in our country. The EPA 8 

### estimates that the Clean Power Plan will deliver 9 

### annual benefits of up to $93 by 2030. No matter 10 

### how well-intentioned, we as individuals simply 11 

### can't effect positive that huge, so we need the 12 

### Clean Power Plan to be strongly, effectively 13 

### implemented. 14

### I hope that Georgia takes steps to fully 15 

### comply with the Clean Power Plan. If it doesn't, 16 

### though, EPA is required to issue and enforce a 17 

### Federal Implementation Plan. In order to ensure 18 

### the draft model federal plan is strong and just, 19 

### EPA must ensure the carbon pollution standards in 20 

### the model federal plan achieve the pollution 21 

### reductions promised in the final Clean Power 22275

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### Plan, or even further reductions. It must ensure 1 

### that states address potential carbon pollution 2 

### from new power plants to achieve overall electric 3 

### sector reductions in carbon pollution. 4 

### It must protect low-income consumers by 5 

### maximizing utilities' incentives to invest in 6 

### energy efficiency, which lowers household energy 7 

### bills. It must ensure that the model federal 8 

### plan protects and benefits minority, low-income, 9 

### and indigenous communities that have long borne 10 

### the brunt of fossil fuel pollution, and may be 11 

### most likely to experience the impacts of climate 12 

### change. It must also resist giveaways of 13 

### allowance to the most polluting sources. 14

### The Clean Power Plan will clean up our 15 

### air and address climate disruption, while also 16 

### modernizing how we power our country and our 17 

### economy, spurring innovation and creating 18 

### thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in new 19 

### investments. 20

### And one final note. In January of this 21 

### year, the New York Times, Stanford University, 22276

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### and the nonpartisan environmental research group, 1 

### Resources for the Future, conducted a poll. The 2 

### poll found that 83 percent of Americans, 3 

### including 61 percent of Republicans, say that if 4 

### nothing is done to reduce emissions, global 5 

### warming will be a serious problem. Seventy-four 6 

### percent of Americans also said that the Federal 7 

### Government should be doing a substantial amount 8 

### to combat climate change. It is only common 9 

### sense to take care of our home, and clearly, most 10 

### Americans agree -- we need the Clean Power Plan. 11

### Thank you. 12

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Do you have any 13 

### questions? 14

### [No audible response.] 15

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. If you 16 

### have an extra copy and you can leave a copy a 17 

### copy with the court reporter, that would be 18 

### helpful. 19

### MS. KECK: Okay. Great. 20

### MS. GETTLE: Our next speaker is Richard 21 

### Hertzberg. Mr. Hertzberg, if you would spell 22277

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### your first and last name for the court reporter 1 

### before you get started, we'd appreciate that. 2 

### Thank you. 3 

### MR. HERTZBERG: Okay. Richard, 4 

### R-i-c-h-a-r-d, Hertzberg, H-e-r-t-z-b-e-r-g. 5 

### Okay? 6 

### MS. GETTLE: You can begin. 7 

### MR. HERTZBERG: All right. Thank you for 8 

### this opportunity to speak. 9 

### The EPA's Clean Power Plan is important 10 

### for its goal of reducing carbon pollution, but 11 

### its benefits go far beyond that. My focus 12 

### tonight is first on what some call a side 13 

### benefit, namely the reductions in multiple air 14 

### pollutants that affect our children's health, and 15 

### second, on the significant advantage in Georgia 16 

### developing its own strategy for meeting the state 17 

### goals for cutting carbon pollution. 18

### I am a private consultant in 19 

### biomathematics and an adjunct professor in 20 

### environmental health at Emory University. My 21 

### focus over the past 35 years has been on the 22278

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### combined risks from simultaneous exposure to 1 

### multiple pollutants and environmental conditions. 2 

### Why is that important to the support of the Clean 3 

### Power Plan? In a recent U.S. National Climate 4 

### Assessment report, it says, "Climate change is 5 

### increasing the risks of heat stress and 6 

### respiratory stress from poor air quality." Here 7 

### in Georgia, our children are exposed to these 8 

### stresses all at the same time. 9 

### EPA has posted estimates of how many 10 

### asthma attacks and premature deaths would be 11 

### avoided by the required cuts in several air 12 

### pollutants. Where EPA could go further when 13 

### discussing the health benefits is to consider not 14 

### just the separate risk but the cumulative impact 15 

### of all the stressors together. EPA has set 16 

### national exposure limits for many air pollutants 17 

### related to children's health, notably its 18 

### standards for ozone and particulate matter. 19

### But the agency does not have standards 20 

### for the combination of such exposures, partly 21 

### because there is no single combination -- 22279

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### pollution levels change over time and certainly 1 

### with location. That is why the Clean Power Plan 2 

### option for states to determine their own 3 

### strategies is so important. In Atlanta, we hare 4 

### notorious for not having national average air 5 

### pollution levels. Also, Georgia is culturally 6 

### quite diverse. Our communities are not composed 7 

### of national average people. Consequently, our 8 

### carbon strategy should use Georgia data. 9 

### In Georgia, children are exposed to all 10 

### of the air pollutants at the same time, and when 11 

### exercising in the summer also exposed to the heat 12 

### and the humidity. That combination of air 13 

### pollutants and heat ha been scientifically shown 14 

### to be much worse than expected from the single 15 

### stressors in isolation. We call that combination 16 

### effect toxicological synergy. 17

### We also know that people of color are 18 

### more likely to live in areas of higher air 19 

### pollution and people in many inner-city 20 

### neighborhoods are also exposed to stress from 21 

### high traffic and high crime. Those latter 22280

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### psychological stresses have also been shown to be 1 

### synergistic with airborne chemicals, that is, to 2 

### enhance the toxicity of air pollution. We thus 3 

### have defined some highly vulnerable populations 4 

### of considerable size. Because of those 5 

### identified synergistic interactions and 6 

### vulnerable populations, it is even more important 7 

### to work hard to reduce our air pollution levels. 8 

### Now I realize that heat stress over the 9 

### next few years is not gong to go away just 10 

### because Georgia meets its carbon pollution goals. 11 

### Our city will still be called Hotlanta for many 12 

### years to come. However, if we can reduce the 13 

### pollution levels in our air, that can have a 14 

### dramatic improvement upon children's health and 15 

### upon the health of the other sensitive 16 

### populations in Georgia. 17

### Among the more common sources of 18 

### uncertainty in community health risk assessment 19 

### is having to use national pollutant standards and 20 

### national population characteristics and then 21 

### extrapolate to get risk estimates for a state or 22281

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### a region. The best way to develop a strategy 1 

### that includes the potential improvements in 2 

### public health in our state is to use air 3 

### pollution estimates in Georgia, and to match them 4 

### with characteristics of the populations in 5 

### Georgia. Having that kind of regional and 6 

### community focus is where environmental risk 7 

### management is the most successful. 8 

### So I strongly encourage Georgia lawmakers 9 

### to take advantage of this states option and begin 10 

### immediately to develop the Georgia strategy for 11 

### meeting the carbon pollution limits of our state. 12 

### I applaud EPA for making that option available. 13 

### State-level risk management is one of the best 14 

### ways to improve our air quality and improve the 15 

### respiratory health of our Georgia residents, our 16 

### environmental justice communities, and especially 17 

### our children. 18

### Thank you for your attention. 19

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. Are 20 

### there any questions? 21

### [No audible response.] 22282

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### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 1 

### MR. HERTZBERG: And if you want, I have 2 

### references you can look up too. 3 

### MS. GETTLE: That would be helpful, and 4 

### if you have an extra copy you could give to the 5 

### court reporter, we would appreciate that. 6 

### MR. HERTZBERG: All right. 7 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 8 

### At this time we have no other speakers so 9 

### we will be in recess until we have more speakers. 10

### [Break taken from 6:38 to 7:11 p.m.] 11

### MS. GETTLE: We will go back into session 12 

### and our next speaker will be Kevin Kelly. 13

### Mr. Kelly, if you could spell your first 14 

### and last name for the court reporter before you 15 

### begin your remarks. 16

### MR. KELLY: Kevin Kelly, K-e-v-i-n 17 

### K-e-l-l-y. Go ahead? 18

### MS. GETTLE: Yes, go ahead. 19

### MR. KELLY: Well, good evening. My name 20 

### is Kevin Kelly. I'm a policy advisor with 21 

### Southface Energy Institute, an Atlanta-based 22283

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### nonprofit organization that provides education, 1 

### research, and technical assistance on clean 2 

### energy across the Southeast. For more than three 3 

### decades, Southface has been on the ground, 4 

### training buildings, working with energy code 5 

### officials, assisting local governments and 6 

### utilities and supporting clean energy companies. 7 

### We bring a practitioner's perspective to the 8 

### conversation about growing the clean energy 9 

### economy in the Southeast. 10

### Since 2013, Southface had partnered with 11 

### government and industry to document the growth of 12 

### Georgia's clean energy industry through our Clean 13 

### Energy Industry Census. The 2014 census documents 14 

### an industry that employs almost 20,000 people and 15 

### generates close to $3 billion in annual revenues 16 

### in the state. This sector of our economy is 17 

### growing and is poised to continue growing. A 18 

### thoughtful approach to Clean Power Plan 19 

### implementation in the state will further that 20 

### growth. 21

### I come today to offer comments on the 22284

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### Clean Energy Incentive Program and the 1 

### Evaluation, Measurement, and Verification 2 

### Guidance for Demand-Side Energy Efficiency. 3 

### So first I want to talk about the Clean 4 

### Energy Incentive Program. Southface was very 5 

### supportive of the CEIP -- I'll shorten it. We 6 

### believe that the framework proposed in the 7 

### federal plan is appropriate and workable. 8 

### Specifically, we are very supportive of the 9 

### inclusion of low-income EE in the program. 10 

### Southface has partnered with a number of other 11 

### organizations to promote an expansion of low12 

### income EE programming in Georgia. 13

### In particular, we have proposed the 14 

### adoption of a multifamily affordable housing 15 

### retrofit program in Georgia Power's 2016 16 

### Integrated Resource Plan. We believe that the 17 

### multifamily affordable housing market continues 18 

### to suffer from chronic underinvestment from 19 

### state- and utility-sponsored EE programs. The 20 

### CEIP will address this disparity and ensure that 21 

### the benefits of energy efficiency are available 22285

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### for all Georgia citizens. 1 

### In our proposed Multi-family Affordable 2 

### Housing Program, we use an eligibility framework 3 

### that is built both on affordability criteria and 4 

### geographical criteria. We include publicly owned 5 

### housing; privately owned housing developments 6 

### that qualify for one or more of the federal tax 7 

### credits, like the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit; 8 

### and any other multifamily housing development in 9 

### a census tract that qualifies for the New markets 10 

### Tax Credit, units we refer to as "unsubsidized 11


### affordable." 12

### We encourage EPA to adopt a broad 13 

### definition of low-income that incorporates both 14 

### affordability and place-based criteria. 15 

### Additionally, Southface would be supportive of 16 

### CEIP eligibility for non-residential EE projects 17 

### that operate in qualified low-income areas 18 

### because we believe that these benefits would 19 

### accrue to these communities. 20


### There are two elements of the CEIP on 21 

### which we seek clarification. The first is the 22286

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### eligibility cutoff date for EE programs, which 1 

### says that only EE projects that are implemented 2 

### after plan submission will receive credit under 3 

### the program. 4 

### We expect this means that EE measures 5 

### installed through an existing low-income EE 6 

### program, such as Weatherization Assistance 7 

### Programs in the states, can qualify if those 8 

### measures were installed after the eligibility 9 

### cutoff date. I think there may be a little bit 10 

### of confusion in terms here, because EE practice 11 

### can encompass programs, projects, and measures 12 

### whereas the guidance uses just the term 13 

### "projects." 14

### The second issue on which we seek 15 

### clarification is whether cumulative or first-year 16 

### energy savings will be credited. We expected 17 

### that cumulative savings should qualify for CEIP 18 

### credit with the accumulation beginning after the 19 

### eligibility cutoff date. 20

### Clarifying both of these points would be 21 

### helpful. 22287

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### Now I want to turn my attention to the 1 

### EM&V Guidance for Demand-Side Energy Efficiency. 2 

### EPA's draft EM&V guidance employs a standard term 3 

### of art in the industry, which is net savings. 4 

### The guidance goes on to say that "this change in 5 

### energy use and/or demand may include, implicitly 6 

### or explicitly, consideration of factors such as 7 

### free ridership, participant and non-participant 8 

### spillover, and induced market effects." 9 

### Southface believes that adjusting EE 10 

### savings for free ridership is not relevant to the 11 

### Clean Power Plan, and not relevant to compliance 12 

### under the plan. In accounting for free 13 

### ridership, an evaluator excludes the savings from 14 

### any measure installation that a participating 15 

### customer says he or she would have done even in 16 

### the absence of the program incentive. Southface 17 

### recognizes that this is an important EM&V 18 

### procedure for establishing net savings for 19 

### regulated demand-side management programs, but a 20 

### successfully installed measure will reduce energy 21 

### demand and result in environmental benefit 22288

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### nonetheless. 1 

### This fact is of paramount importance for 2 

### environmental compliance while the reason why a 3 

### customer installed a measure is less significant. 4 

### If the technology was installed, a state should 5 

### be able to claim credit for these savings. 6 

### Southface strongly encourages the U.S. EPA to 7 

### more fully explore the specific steps involved in 8 

### translating gross EE to net EE savings and the 9 

### relevance of each one of those steps to the goals 10 

### of emission reduction and environmental 11 

### compliance. 12

### In closing, I want to underscore that 13 

### Southface supports the Clean Power Plan and looks 14 

### forward to working with the State of Georgia in 15 

### developing a cost-effective Clean Power Plan 16 

### compliance approach. 17

### Thank you. 18

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. Are 19 

### there any questions? 20

### [No audible response.] 21

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. If you 22289

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### have an extra copy of your presentation that you 1 

### can give to the court reporter that would be 2 

### helpful. Thank you. 3 

### MR. KELLY: Okay. Thank you. 4 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 5 

### We will recess the hearing until we have 6 

### additional speakers. 7 

### [Break taken from 7:18 to 7:31 p.m.] 8 

### MS. GETTLE: All right. Thank you. 9 

### We're going to reconvene the hearing, and our 10 

### next speaker will be Darel Preble. If you would 11 

### have a seat, and if you would, before you begin 12 

### your presentation, spell your first and last name 13 

### for the court reporter. We will have 5 minutes 14 

### on the timer, and you can begin whenever you're 15 

### ready. 16

### MR. PREBLE: My name is Darel Preble. I 17 

### am spelled D-a-r-e-l, first name, and last name 18 

### is spelled P as in Paul-r-e-b like in Bob-l-e. 19

### The energy picture in the world right now 20 

### is focused on attempting to get CO2 under 21 

### control, and as I will read in my prepared 22290

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### statement, the technologies which exist to do 1 

### this, which are available to the generating 2 

### companies, basically don't permit -- well, here's 3 

### the prepared statement. 4 

### Effective control of rising CO2 is not 5 

### financially feasible for even large electric 6 

### power generation companies, using currently 7 

### available technologies and RPS constraints. 8 

### These companies and customer are not capable of 9 

### shouldering the heavy substances and procedural 10 

### burdens, is EPA's wording. 11

### As their visceral connections to global 12 

### economies prohibits deploying grossly non13 

### economic and reliability-reducing power 14 

### generation technologies, space-solar power is 15 

### necessary to do this. 16


### There was awarded a contract -- not a 17 

### contract but a semifinalist at the D of E who is 18 

### [inaudible]. It's not a contract. 19

### The average U.S. citizen has seen their 20 

### wealth decline around 42 percent during the last 21 

### 6 years, and we have seen the average cost of 22291

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### food this century rise over 60 percent -- these 1 

### are USDA figures -- while the cost of 2 

### electricity, for example, has increased over 42 3 

### percent, while, I might add, the price of natural 4 

### gas, for example, which is becoming the go-to 5 

### technology for major power companies, has 6 

### actually dropped during that time about the same 7


### amount. 8 

### The electric power companies are 9 

### extremely concerned about the reliability issues 10 

### which they're face with, both from the standpoint 11 

### of ground or terrestrial solar and windmills, and 12 

### also the fact that natural gas, which was about 13 

### $2.70 per million BTU in 1997 and 1998, went to 14 

### $14.00 per million BTU around 2005. So if enough 15 

### crap like this happens with natural gas, you can 16 

### expect to see further massive problems with the 17 

### electric power companies. 18

### How much time have I got left? 19

### MS. GETTLE: Two minutes. 20

### MR. PREBLE: The technology of space21 

### solar power is being vigorously pursued, 22292

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Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### internally, especially in Japan and China. I was 1 

### reviewing papers from China, in Istanbul, earlier 2 

### this summer, and we'll be having a conference in 3 

### the U.S. The next one is in Orlando. It bears 4 

### interest from EPA, for example. There are no 5 

### equivalents between terrestrial solar and space 6 

### solar. You can get 10 times more energy out of 7 

### space solar while it is 24 hours a day, 7 days a 8 

### week, not pseudo-random intermittent. 9 

### If you attempt use storage using the 10 

### lowest cost, high-value storage such as 11 

### compressed air energy storage, then even if you 12 

### store for just one day, which is not anywhere 13 

### near adequate, you get 71 times more energy 14 

### return on energy investment from space solar 15 

### power, which means if you attempt to use massive 16 

### storage -- and I'm not talking about, you know, 17 

### your [inaudible] and control storage -- then 18 

### you're going to see much greater cost and 19 

### reliability issues with the electric power 20 

### generation in this country and elsewhere. 21 

### Because Europe, by the way, it also is not 22293

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### aggressively pursuing space solar power at this 1 

### point. 2 

### How much time have I got left? 3


### MS. GETTLE: Seven seconds. 4 

### MR. PREBLE: I thank you for your 5 

### attention and opportunity to speak. 6 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. Are 7 

### there any questions? 8 

### [No audible response.] 9 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. We 10 

### appreciate your time. 11

### MR. PREBLE: Thank you. I have my few 12 

### slides if you wanted those. 13

### MS. GETTLE: Do you have them in a hard 14 

### copy or do you only have them -- 15

### MR. PREBLE: I have this or I can send 16 

### you a hard copy, or whatever you would like. 17

### MS. GETTLE: What I would suggest is that 18 

### you, out at the registration desk we have the 19 

### place where you can send in written comments, and 20 

### I think that if we can give you that you could 21 

### just send the comments to that location. We 22294

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Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### consider those comments the same as we consider 1 

### the comments provided here today. 2 

### MR. PREBLE: Thank you. 3 

### MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 4 

### The hearing is recessed for the day. 5 

### [Whereupon, at 7:38 p.m., the Public 6 

### Hearing is recessed until November 20, 2015, at 7 

### 9:00 a.m.] 8

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