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1 Environmental Protection Agency 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 Public Hearing on the Proposed Federal Plan 

7 and Model Rules for the Clean Power Plan 

8 For Existing Power Plants 

9 

10 Day 1 

11 

12 8:59 a.m. to 7:38 p.m. 

13 Thursday, November 19, 2015 

14 

15 

16 Sam Nunn Atlanta Federal Center 

17 Main Tower Bridge Conference Center 

18 61 Forsyth Street, SW 

19 Atlanta, GA 30303 

20 

21 

22 
2 

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1 EPA Panel: 

2 Morning Session: 

3 ANNE HEARD, Deputy Regional Administrator, EPA 

4 JEANANNE GETTLE, Deputy Director of Air 

5 Pesticides and Toxics Management Division, EPA 

6 COLIN BOSWELL, Office of Air Quality Planning 

7 and Standards, EPA 

8 

9 Afternoon Session: 

10 CAROL KEMPER, Deputy Director, Region 4 Air, 

11 Pesticides, and Toxics Management Division, EPA 

12 COLIN BOSWELL, Office of Air Quality Planning 

13 and Standards, EPA 

14 DR. KEN MITCHELL, Region 4 Clean Power Plan, EPA 

15 

16 Evening Session: 

17 JEANANNE GETTLE, Deputy Director of Air 

18 Pesticides and Toxics Management Division, EPA 

19 CAROL KEMPER, Deputy Director, Region 4 Air, 

20 Pesticides, and Toxics Management Division, EPA 

21 JAN CORDALOU [ph], Office of Air Quality Planning 

22 and Standards, EPA 
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1 C O N T E N T S 

2 PAGE 

3 Morning Session 

4 MARK WOODALL, Sierra Club 18 

5 ANGELINE GARDNER 25 

6 ERICA DAVIS, Sierra Club 28 

7 CHRIS LUNGHINO, Sierra Club Beyond Coal 

8 Campaign 32 

9 DANIEL JORANKO, United Methodist Nashville 

10 District, Creation Care Ministries 36 

11 SCOTT DANBURY, Sierra Club 38 

12 KEMMER ANDERSON, Cherokee Sierra Club 42 

13 CYNTHIA HERNANDEZ 43 

14 DR. MARY HEADRICK 45 

15 DR. MARILYN BROWN, Georgia Institute of 

16 Technology 50 

17 KATE ANTHONY, Sierra Club 54 

18 SANDRA KURTZ 56 

19 JOSH DOBIE [ph] 62 

20 ANNE BLAIR, Southern Alliance For 

21 Clean Energy 66 

22 MARILYN EVANS, National People's Action 72 
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1 C O N T E N T S (continued) 

2 PAGE 

3 Morning Session (continued) 

4 ROY DAVIS, Committees United for Action 74 

5 BRAXTON BRADLEY 81 

6 LINDSEY PACE, Moms Clean Air Force 85 

7 COLLEEN KIERNAN, Sierra Club, Georgia Chapter 89 

8 GINNY KINCER, Tennessee Solar Solutions 95 

9 SUZANNE SMITHERMAN 100 

10 AARON PARDIEU, Kentuckians For The 

11 Commonwealth 103 

12 LANCE BROWN, PACE 109 

13 KATHERINE MULLER, Inviro Design and 

14 Consulting 112 

15 LISA RAYNOR, Mothers and Others for 

16 Clean Air 116 

17 ROGER BUERKI 120 

18 JAMES RUST, Heartland Institute 123 

19 ANNE MELLINGER-BIRDSONG, Mothers and Others 

20 For Clean Air 128 

21 HILARY MERLIN, Mothers and Others For 

22 Clean Air 132 
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1 C O N T E N T S (continued) 

2 PAGE 

3 Morning Session (continued) 

4 GERALD DURLEY, Interfaith Power and Light 135 

5 DANIEL BLACKMAN 139 

6 PATRICK CAGLE, JobKeeper Alliance 144 

7 

8 Afternoon Session 

9 DR. ROBY GREENWALD, School of Public Health, 

10 Georgia State University 158 

11 LAURA SEYDEL, Mothers and Others for 

12 Clean Air 162 

13 KATY CYWILKO, Student 166 

14 HARPER DODSON, Student 167 

15 WOODY BARTLETT, Georgia Interfaith Power 

16 and Light 168 

17 JENNETTE GAYER, Environment Georgia 172 

18 BENITA DODD, Georgia Public Policy Foundation 177 

19 ELEANOR HAND, Georgia Sierra Club 182 

20 TAYLOR PRINCE, Chemical engineer, Statewide 

21 Organizing for Community Empowerment 187 

22 AMY KELLY, Appalachian Voices 190 
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1 C O N T E N T S (continued) 

2 PAGE 

3 Afternoon Session (continued) 

4 BRUCE BLOHM, GreenSpace.org, St. Paul's 

5 Episcopal Church, South Chickamauga 

6 Creek Greenway Alliance 193 

7 JACQUELIN CARTER, Student 196 

8 DOUG LEGO, MEAG Power 197 

9 COLLEEN McLOUGHLIN, Environment Georgia 202 

10 LAUREN REEF, Student 206 

11 KATE McGREGOR MOSLEY, Georgia Interfaith 

12 Power and Light 208 

13 DOUG MIELL, Georgia Chamber of Commerce 213 

14 MARIN ANGELES GUTIERREZ, presenting for 

15 Karen Graimey, Georgia Sierra Club 218 

16 REV. WILLIAM EDWARD FLIPPIN, JR., Emmanuel 

17 Lutheran Church, NAACP 222 

18 PAUL GALETTI, Student 225 

19 RODNEY J. RUSSELL, American Association of 

20 Blacks in Energy, Lambda Chapter 227 

21 LEANNE TOWNSEND 231 

22 DJUAN COLEON, Project Renewable Energy 232 
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1 C O N T E N T S (continued) 

2 PAGE 

3 Afternoon Session (continued) 

4 MARK BERRY, Southern Company 236 

5 SAM COLLIER, Investor, Parent, and 

6 Georgia Power Shareholder 242 

7 JOSHUA HANTHORN 245 

8 NINA DUTTON, Georgia Sierra Club 249 

9 

10 Evening Session 

11 BOB JAMES, Citizens Climate Lobby 262 

12 DEREK JAWORSKI 267 

13 FLANNERY KECK, Citizens Climate Lobby 272 

14 RICHARD HERTZBERG, Emory University 277 

15 KEVIN KELLY, Southface Energy Institute 282 

16 DAREL PREBLE 289 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S 

2 MS. HEARD: Good morning. 

3 [Chorus of good mornings.] 

4 MS. HEARD: Thank you for coming to 

5 today's hearing. I am Anne Heard, the Deputy 

6 Regional Administrator for EPA Region 4, which 

7 covers eight states and six tribal nations. I 

8 want to welcome you to today's hearing and to 

9 thank you for your comments on the EPA's proposed 

10 federal plan and model rules to reduce carbon 

11 pollution from existing power plants, our 

12 nation's largest source of carbon pollution. 

13 The proposed federal plan and model rules 

14 will help the EPA and states to implement the 

15 Clean Power Plan. Today's hearing reflects 

16 another step in our commitment to collect and 

17 evaluate meaningful input as we develop 

18 practical, flexible, and effective measures to 

19 address climate impact. These impacts are 

20 already being felt and posing risks to our 

21 environment, our economy, and our community here 

22 in Region 4. 
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1 The EPA collected and evaluated more than 

2 4 million comments in finalizing the Clean Power 

3 Plan. This outreach included two public events 

4 here in our Atlanta office, one listening session 

5 prior to the development of the Clean Power Plan, 

6 and one public hearing held during the public 

7 comment period for the proposed Clean Power Plan. 

8 The final Clean Power Plan for Existing 

9 Power Plants was published in the Federal 

10 Register on October 23, 2015, and becomes 

11 effective on December 22, 2015. The final 

12 rulemaking was enriched by all the public 

13 comments that EPA received. 

14 We are here today to listen to your 

15 comments on the Proposed federal plan and model 

16 trading rules that states can use to implement 

17 the Clean Power Plan. Specifically, today's 

18 hearing provide an opportunity to provide the 

19 agency with input as we develop a path forward to 

20 implementing the Clean Power Plan, through a 

21 framework and set of model rules intended for 

22 states that choose to not develop their own plan. 
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1 As such, we welcome your interests and your 

2 comments and will evaluate them carefully as we 

3 finalize the federal plan and the model trading 

4 rules, and we expect great feedback, not just 

5 here, but at the three other hearings we are 

6 holding across the country, and also through the 

7 public comment period that is open through 

8 January 21, 2016. These hearings offer an 

9 opportunity for people to speak to the EPA and 

10 their government directly. The chair, Jeananne 

11 Gettle, for this session of the public hearing, 

12 will provide some more information on the 

13 proposal and how the hearing will be conducted. 

14 Again, thank you for being here and for 

15 taking your time to come and comment. And now 

16 I'll turn it over to Jeananne. 

17 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Anne. Good 

18 morning. My name is Jeananne Gettle, and I am 

19 the chair of today's public hearing. Thank you 

20 for coming today. Joining me on the panel is 

21 Anne Heard, who you've already met, our Deputy 

22 Regional Administrator here in Region 4, and 
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1 Colin Boswell from the Office of Air Quality 

2 Planning and Standards. We also have a court 

3 reporter in the room today and she will be 

4 transcribing the hearing as we proceed. 

5 Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 

6 largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 

7 or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 

8 greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing carbon 

9 pollution from power plants is an essential step 

10 in lessening the impacts of climate change and 

11 providing a more certain future for our 

12 environment, our health, and future generations. 

13 We are here today to listen to your 

14 comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 

15 model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 

16 Existing Power Plants. 

17 On October 23, 2015, the Environmental 

18 Protection Agency published, in the Federal 

19 Register, its proposed federal plan to implement 

20 emission guidelines for power plants under 

21 Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 

22 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 
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1 effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 

2 affected power plants that began construction on 

3 or before January 8, 2014. 

4 The federal plan and model trading rules 

5 demonstrate a readily available path forward for 

6 Clean Power Plan implementation, and presents 

7 flexible, affordable implementation options for 

8 states. The model rules provide a cost-effective 

9 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

10 the EPA and make it easy for states and power 

11 plants to use emissions trading. It does the 

12 heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 

13 model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 

14 implement the federal plan in any state that does 

15 not submit an approvable plan. 

16 This proposal includes four discrete 

17 proposed actions: (1) a rate-based federal plan 

18 for each state with affected EGUs; (2) a mass19 based federal plan for each state with affected 

20 EGUs; (3) a rate-based model trading rule for 

21 potential use by any state; and (4) a mass-based 

22 model trading rule for potential use by any 
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1 state. 

2 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

3 the same levels of emissions performance as 

4 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

5 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

6 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

7 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

8 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

9 in the emission guidelines. 

10 In those states where a federal plan may 

11 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

12 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

13 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 

14 would not require additional control requirements 

15 or impose additional costs. Even where a federal 

16 plan is put in place for a particular state, that 

17 state will still be able to submit a plan which, 

18 if approved, will allow the state and its sources 

19 to exit the federal plan. 

20 States may take delegation of 

21 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

22 order to become the primary implementers, or 
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1 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

2 the implementation of a portion of the federal 

3 plan. States operating under a federal plan may 

4 adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 

5 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 

6 benefit of power generators and consumers. 

7 The proposal also includes a model rule 

8 for those states that are developing their own 

9 state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 

10 the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 

11 in the summer of 2016. A state program that 

12 adheres to the model trading rule provisions 

13 specified in this rulemaking, when final, would 

14 be presumptively approvable. 

15 There are stand-alone portions of the 

16 model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 

17 measurement, and verification procedures for 

18 emission rate credits that would be approvable 

19 even if a state adopted an approach that differs 

20 in other respects from the model rule. 

21 In addition, the proposal contains a 

22 finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 
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1 implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 

2 affected EGUs located in Indian country. CO2 

3 emission performance rates for these facilities 

4 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. Also in 

5 the proposal is information on how the EPA will 

6 reach out to communities throughout the comment 

7 period and an overview of the actions that EPA is 

8 taking to ensure that vulnerable communities are 

9 not being disproportionately impacted by this 

10 rulemaking. 

11 If you would like more details on the 

12 proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 

13 the registration desk. 

14 Before we get started, I'd like to go 

15 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

16 that will help to make today's hearing run 

17 smoothly. First, please be sure you've checked 

18 in at the registration desk, even if you are not 

19 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

20 speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 

21 you are here, please stop at the registration 

22 desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 
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1 arrived. 

2 I will call speakers up in pairs. When 

3 your name is called, please come to the speakers' 

4 table, right here at the front of the room. When 

5 I call on you to speak, please start with your 

6 name, and spell it for the court reporter. 

7 Please spell your first and last names. Your 

8 comments will be transcribed and included in the 

9 record of comments on the proposed rule. If you 

10 have written testimony, please hand it to the 

11 court reporter as you exit the table. 

12 Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 

13 comments. We have a timer light to help you know 

14 how much time you have left to speak. When the 

15 light turns from green to yellow, that means you 

16 have 1 minute remaining. When it turns red, 

17 that's a signal that your 5 minutes have expired, 

18 and it is time to stop. When you are finished 

19 speaking, please remain at the table until the 

20 person next to you has completed his or her 

21 testimony. 

22 We are here to listen to you today. 
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1 However, a panel member may ask questions to 

2 clarify your comments. 

3 I will then call up the next set of 

4 speakers, and so on, throughout the morning. 

5 I've already said this, but if you've brought a 

6 copy of your written testimony, please provide it 

7 to the court reporter. 

8 We also have comment cards available at 

9 the registration desk. If you would like to 

10 submit additional written comments today, please 

11 ask for one of the comment cards. If you want to 

12 comment in writing later, stop by the materials 

13 table near the registration desk and pick up a 

14 copy of the instructions for submitting written 

15 comments. Comments must be received by January 

16 21, 2016. That's January 21, 2016. 

17 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 

18 much consideration to comments we receive in 

19 writing as we do to comments we receive at public 

20 hearings like this one. So if you have more 

21 comments that you would like to provided the EPA, 

22 please submit them by the comment period 
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1 deadline. Your comments will be reviewed. 

2 If you have any questions during the day, 

3 please see the staff at the registration desk, 

4 and someone will assist you. 

5 Thank you again for taking the time today 

6 to share your comments on EPA's proposal. Let's 

7 get started. 

8 Our first speaker is Mark Woodall. 

9 MR. WOODALL: Is this on, or do I need to 

10 -- 

11 MS. GETTLE: If you'll push the button 

12 and you'll see a little red light. 

13 MR. WOODALL: I think I'm good. Good 

14 morning. My name is Mark Woodall. That's 

15 M-a-r-k W-o-o-d-a-l-l. I'm the Legislative 

16 Chairman of the Sierra Club here in Georgia, and 

17 on behalf of our 50,000 members and supporters 

18 I'd like to welcome the EPA back to Atlanta. We 

19 think Atlanta is a very appropriate place to have 

20 these hearings on the Clean Power Plan. Just 

21 down the road here is Georgia Power's Plant 

22 Scherer, which is the largest source of carbon 
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1 pollution in the United States, and it was here 

2 in Atlanta, 151 years ago, that the issue of 

3 state sovereignty and state's rights was settled 

4 at the Battle of Atlanta. It was the federal 

5 side that won. 

6 We certainly want to thank the EPA for 

7 taking action to stop catastrophic climate 

8 change. As Senator Shaheen said during the 

9 Senate debates this week, this is a reality that 

10 must be addressed. I apologize for those Georgia 

11 elected officials that want to deny reality. I 

12 take it as a very good sign that I do not see any 

13 elected officials here to protest this plan, so 

14 maybe we're making progress with the recent king 

15 tides that flooded the only road to Tybee Island 

16 recently. That's the first time that's happened 

17 without a hurricane. It's becoming clear that 

18 things are changing here in Georgia. 

19 I apologize for two United States 

20 Senators who voted in favor of the resolution of 

21 disapproval for the Clean Power Plan, but there 

22 might be climate justice on the way. Senator 
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1 David Perdue lives in the gated community of Sea 

2 Island, so his house is likely going to be one of 

3 the first ones under water unless the U.S. Senate 

4 also disapproves of the laws of physics and the 

5 laws of chemistry. 

6 I apologize for Attorney General Sam 

7 Olens for suing the EPA over this plan. This 

8 constitutes maybe the height of the ingratitude. 

9 As you probably know, the draft approval called 

10 for a reduction in Georgia of 44.4 percent by 

11 2030. After the Georgia EPD and Southern Company 

12 and everybody else commented on that, the EPA 

13 basically gave Georgia everything they wanted in 

14 the way of new units under construction, Global 3 

15 and 4. So for Georgia to sue after they got 

16 everything they wanted is particularly 

17 disgraceful. 

18 As a shareholder in the Southern Company, 

19 I apologize for the notice of intent to sue from 

20 Gulf Power, Mississippi Power, Alabama Power, and 

21 Georgia Power. Hopefully, at some point, 

22 Southern Company will just see how wrong they 
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1 are. 

2 I apologize for the $180,000 that Gulf 

3 Power sent to Florida to kill solar freedom 

4 ballot initiative in Florida. 

5 But things do change quickly around here. 

6 It was just 5 years ago, down the street here, 

7 down Martin Luther King, that Georgia Power told 

8 folks at the Georgia Capitol that solar power 

9 would not work in Georgia because it was too 

10 humid. Yet, by the end of next year, by the end 

11 of 2016, the state of Georgia will have over 

12 1,000 megawatts of solar power installed, so we 

13 thank the Georgia PSC, Southern Company, and even 

14 the EMCs for their work on that. 

15 One of the installations going up right 

16 now is the 131-megawatt solar project, which is 

17 going to be purchased by Cobb EMC, Sawnee EMC, 

18 and Flint Energy. So we no longer have to be 

19 ashamed in Georgia that Franklin D. Roosevelt 

20 created the REA and the co-ops right here. 

21 As far as the federal rule in Georgia and 

22 the rest of the south, I don't think you're going 
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1 to have to go to the trouble of doing anything 

2 about that, because in Georgia the policy has 

3 been -- and I think will be in other states 

4 surrounding -- to get delegation on the federal 

5 environmental programs just as quickly as we can, 

6 and to make sure we hold on to them. While we 

7 understand how delegation works, whenever we go 

8 to any meeting where the EPA is present we have 

9 to point out that after 60 years we have enough 

10 of the stench and discoloration of the Altamaha 

11 River by Rayonier. We can't understand how 

12 that's possible under the Clean Water Act, so 

13 you'll be hearing more about that. 

14 We were pleased to see that Region 4 

15 wrote a letter dated October 30th to the state of 

16 North Carolina, threatening loss of delegation 

17 for the lack of standing for citizens' group. So 

18 I will just say, in regards to Clean Power Plan 

19 and all the other delegated programs, that it's 

20 going to be important that you stay alert. 

21 As far as where we're going here, we 

22 submitted a letter back in October of -- let's 
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1 see -- October 7, 2014, to the EPD, the PSD, and 

2 pointed out that we could get to the stiff [ph] 

3 goal of 44 percent. We could get there 100 

4 percent by retiring old coal units, inefficient 

5 coal units, and adding energy efficiency, solar 

6 power, and wind power. So the current rule is 

7 not much of a lift for Georgia. We'd like to see 

8 more progress faster, but we are happy that the 

9 EPA has moved forward and we look forward to 

10 progress, and we would just urge you to stay the 

11 course and address climate change. 

12 The Sierra Club will be submitting more 

13 detailed comments about trading and all those 

14 other things by the end of the comment period. 

15 MS. HEARD: Thank you, Mr. Woodall. Do 

16 you have any questions to the panel? 

17 MR. WOODALL: I do. 

18 MS. HEARD: Thank you. 

19 We are going to pause right now because 

20 we don't have any additional speakers at this 

21 time. We have been made aware that MARTA was 

22 shut down for a period of time this morning, and 
24 

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1 we believe that may have delayed some of the 

2 participants in arriving, so as soon as we have 

3 additional speakers we will call the session back 

4 into -- we will come back into session and 

5 continue with speakers. 

6 [Audio break.] 

7 MS. GETTLE: [In progress.] -- to start 

8 again, to proceed with the hearing. I just 

9 wanted to review, just quickly, a couple of 

10 procedures that we're using since we have so many 

11 people who have joined us. When it is your turn 

12 to speak I will call two speakers to the front of 

13 the room, ask you to have a seat at this table 

14 here. Each speaker will have 5 minutes to make 

15 their presentation. When you start, please state 

16 your name and then spell both your first and last 

17 name for the court reporter. 

18 We also have a timer. When the timer 

19 goes from green to yellow you have 1 minute 

20 remaining. When the timer goes to red, your time 

21 is up and we would ask you to conclude your 

22 remarks at that point in time. 
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1 So we are ready to proceed. Yes, and 

2 please stay seated until both speakers have 

3 completed their presentation, and then you can 

4 leave the table after that. Also, if you have a 

5 written presentation, please provide that to the 

6 court reporter as you exit the table. 

7 The next two speakers are Angeline 

8 Gardner and Erica Davis. 

9 Are you Angeline or Erica? 

10 MS. GARDNER: I'm Angeline. 

11 MS. GETTLE: Okay. Do you want to keep 

12 this until -- 

13 MS. GARDNER: Oh, I thought you wanted 

14 it. 

15 MS. GETTLE: Okay. We can give it to the 

16 court reporter. 

17 Ms. Gardner, if you will -- you can sit 

18 down, and if you look in front of you, if you 

19 will punch the green button, the red light should 

20 come on, on your microphone. And you can proceed 

21 when you are ready. 

22 MS. GARDNER: Hello. I'm Angeline 
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1 Gardner. A-n-g-e-l-i-n-e, Gardner, 

2 G-a-r-d-n-e-r, from Chattanooga, Tennessee. In 

3 the early '60s, my parents bought land on a ridge 

4 in Chattanooga, Tennessee, specifically because 

5 of the clear, lovely view of both Signal and 

6 Lookout Mountains. By 1969, eating dinner out on 

7 the deck, we could only see the mountain on 

8 Sundays, when the foundries and plants were 

9 closed. All of you probably know it was in early 

10 1969 when Chattanooga was named the most polluted 

11 city in the country, one year before the 

12 formation of the EPA. Now Chattanooga is widely 

13 recognized for its environmental progress. 

14 The father of solar energy, Dr. Erich 

15 Farber, told me during an interview for Florida 

16 Trend magazine in the '70s he first saw solar as 

17 a viable source of energy in the '30s, when he 

18 was still a high school student. When he joined 

19 the staff of University of Florida, Dr. Farber 

20 developed the Solar Energy Lab, where he showed 

21 me a solar-powered water heater, stove, 

22 refrigerator, air conditioner, sewer treatment 
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1 plant, even a solar-powered car. Dr. Farber 

2 explained that almost any place on Earth where 

3 people live, odds are there is enough sunshine to 

4 run these same solar-powered equipment. 

5 Forty-five years later, we are seeing the 

6 first partially solar-powered auto coming out on 

7 the market, and more, though not nearly enough 

8 buildings with solar panels. What impressed me 

9 most was an equation Dr. Farber thought of when 

10 he was in high school. He made it sound simple. 

11 The countries which control the most energy, and 

12 use it, are that progress the fastest. He also 

13 explained that the power providing this dominance 

14 came mostly from fossil fuels -- gas, coal, and 

15 oil -- which, without a doubt, to Dr. Farber, at 

16 least, would one day be gone. 

17 Here I am, seven decades later, asking 

18 you to make solar energy the priority for the 

19 Clean Power Plan. 

20 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. 

21 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Ms. Gardner. 

22 Panel, do you have any questions for Ms. Gardner? 
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1 [No audible response.] 

2 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Ms. Davis? 

3 MS. DAVIS: First of all, thank you so 

4 much for the opportunity to testify in favor of 

5 the strong Clean Power Plan. My name is Erica 

6 Davis, E-r-i-c-a D-a-v-i-s, and I'm here as a 

7 member of the Sierra Club. 

8 I grew up in a Nashville suburb and now 

9 live in Knoxville as a student at the University 

10 of Tennessee, and while I was in Nashville I 

11 experienced the worst flood the city had ever 

12 seen, shattering rainfall records and killing 11 

13 of my neighbors, most of them in four 

14 neighborhoods in the area. In the aftermath, we 

15 had to band together to clean up, recover, and 

16 heal the wounds, and what's really devastating to 

17 me is to think that an extreme weather like the 

18 flood of 2010, in Nashville and the surrounding 

19 areas, those events will only become more 

20 frequent in the face of global climate change, a 

21 leading cause of which is emissions from fossil 

22 fuel-fired power plants. 
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1 I moved to Knoxville for college and fell 

2 in love with the Appalachian Mountains. I don't 

3 know if you've been to the Smoky Mountain Park -- 

4 it's beautiful, especially this time of year. 

5 Unfortunately, those mountains are knocked down 

6 like dominoes by drag lines and dynamite, and 

7 it's all for the purpose of providing a dirty 

8 source of fuel. It's like a power plant. And 

9 the plant, they constantly release harmful toxins 

10 and pollutants into the air that we all breathe. 

11 I've spent time with some of the people 

12 in those communities and they're the most hard13 working, humbling, and beautiful people that I've 

14 ever had an opportunity to meet. Unfortunately, 

15 the consequences of extraction and combustion 

16 don't have any discretion. One woman I met 

17 showed me around her home, that she built 

18 herself, which was really inspiring. A couple 

19 hundred yards away, though, was a new mining 

20 site, and I listened to her story about explosive 

21 blasts she could hear throughout the night. She 

22 is sick and suffering from severe respiratory 
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1 issues and had trouble even telling me her story. 

2 She wished for nothing more than to support 

3 herself with food from a garden that she planted, 

4 but the problem was she was unable to trust the 

5 groundwater because of the mining operations next 

6 door and their toxic runoff. 

7 So this is what the current power next to 

8 it causes, unapologetically, and it's what it 

9 looks like on the ground to the people in the 

10 community, and it's wrong, but the EPA finally 

11 has a chance to make that right. So that's 

12 something that we're really excited about. 

13 By 2030, the Clean Power Plan would cut 

14 carbon pollution from the power sector by nearly 

15 a third, including additional reductions from 

16 other pollutants, which would mean significant 

17 health benefits for the American people as a 

18 whole, and better lives for the people in our 

19 resource extraction frontiers. 

20 A recent Harvard University study 

21 recently found that Tennessee, in particular, 

22 would experience significant public health gains 
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1 from implementing the Clean Power Plan through 

2 avoided premature death, hospitalization, and 

3 non-fatal heart attack. And it should come as no 

4 surprise, then, that the vast majority of 

5 Tennesseans support the plan. 

6 I was also encourage the provision to 

7 incentivize early action on renewable power and 

8 to bring energy efficiency to the low-income 

9 neighborhoods, like the ones in Appalachia. We 

10 can't wait any longer. Especially as a college 

11 student, I feel anxious about the energy future 

12 my generation will be faced with if proper 

13 measures aren't taken immediately to ensure a 

14 just and sustainable tomorrow for us all. 

15 Thank you. 

16 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Panel, do you 

17 have any questions? 

18 MS. HEARD: Do you happen to have a copy 

19 of the Harvard University study you referred to? 

20 MS. DAVIS: I have a link to it. Do you 

21 want me to get that to you? 

22 MS. HEARD: Yes. To the court reporter. 
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1 MS. DAVIS: Yes, ma'am. 

2 MS. HEARD: Thank you. 

3 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Ms. Davis. 

4 Our next two speakers are Chris Lunghino 

5 and Dan Joranko. 

6 MS. LUNGHINO: Good morning. My name is 

7 Chris Ann Lunghino, spelled C-h-r-i-s -- 

8 MS. GETTLE: I don't think your mic is 

9 on. If you push the green button there should be 

10 a red light. 

11 MS. LUNGHINO: All right. Now I've got 

12 it. My name is Chris Lunghino, C-h-r-i-s 

13 L-u-n like Nancy - g-h-i-n like Nancy - o. 

14 Good morning. I'm the organizing 

15 representative for the Sierra Club Beyond Coal 

16 Campaign, and I live in Nashville, Tennessee. 

17 Thank you so much for this opportunity to comment 

18 this morning. 

19 I have three wonderful sons. Two of them 

20 suffer from asthma. When my oldest son, Brent, 

21 was 3 years old he suffered his first really 

22 serious asthma episode. He almost died. He 
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1 spent 5 days in the hospital in an oxygen tent. 

2 I suffered with him every single minute. That 

3 was 1992. Since then, the incidence of childhood 

4 asthma has increased greatly. 

5 My mission in life, both professionally 

6 and personally, is to create a culture that is 

7 committed to sustainability, so that other 

8 children don't have to suffer like my children 

9 did, and other parents don't have to suffer like 

10 I did. Climate action is about love. 

11 That is why I'm here today, to speak in 

12 support of EPA's Clean Power Plan and comment on 

13 the recently proposed federal plan and the Clean 

14 Energy Incentive Plan. I am extremely grateful 

15 for the leadership that EPA and President Obama 

16 are providing on climate action through the Clean 

17 Power Plan. 

18 I'm going to focus my comments this 

19 morning on the opportunities the Clean Power Plan 

20 can provide for low-income communities and 

21 communities of color, which are 

22 disproportionately impacted by pollution and 
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1 climate change. African American children have 

2 the highest rate of asthma in America. In 

3 Tennessee, they are twice as likely to suffer 

4 from asthma as white, non-Hispanic kids. For 

5 adults, asthma is one of the leading causes of 

6 work absenteeism and loss of productivity. Poor 

7 health, with its hospital costs and medical 

8 bills, get expensive. And African Americans are 

9 significantly more likely to die from asthma than 

10 the majority of the U.S. population. 

11 The federal plan and the Clean Energy 

12 Incentive Plan present an unprecedented 

13 opportunity to address the environmental 

14 inequities in the most impacted communities. 

15 These plans can also help alleviate long-standing 

16 economic and social problems, including 

17 unemployment, dis-investment, violence, and 

18 blight. In 2015, clean energy businesses in 

19 Tennessee support over 44,000 workers at over 

20 2,500 businesses. The Clean Power Plan can help 

21 grow those numbers and ensure that impacted 

22 communities in our state are benefitting. 
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1 The federal plan should take full 

2 advantage of this opportunity to address 

3 environmental injustice by adopting policies that 

4 make long-term investments in communities 

5 disproportionately burdened by pollution and 

6 economic stress. The federal plan should act not 

7 only as a backstop for non-compliant states but 

8 should provide a model for all states on how this 

9 plan can minimize the pain and maximize the gain 

10 for impacted communities. 

11 I am pleased that EPA has included the 

12 full Clean Energy Incentive Plan in the proposed 

13 federal plan. I recommend, however, that the EPA 

14 require non-compliant federal plan states to 

15 participate in the Clean Energy Incentive Plan 

16 rather than allowing states to opt out. Equity 

17 must be at the center of policies addressing 

18 climate change. The federal plan should include 

19 policy choices and implementation approaches that 

20 specifically take equity into account. This is 

21 especially important in the allocation of limited 

22 resources such as pollution allowance. No more 
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1 than 15 percent of allowances should be 

2 giveaways, and please resist giving weight of 

3 allowances to the most polluting sources. 

4 Communities of color and communities of low 

5 incomes must receive net environmental and 

6 economic benefits from pollution allowances. 

7 The allowances created, and any revenues 

8 generated by the implementation of the Clean 

9 Power Plan should be used to ensure 

10 disproportionately impacted communities receive 

11 net economic and environmental benefits. 

12 Policies or programs within the federal plan, in 

13 addition to any revenues committed to our general 

14 programs should maximize environmental, social, 

15 and economic benefits in impacted communities. 

16 Thank you again for offering this 

17 opportunity to comment. 

18 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

19 MR. JORANKO: My name is Dan Joranko, 

20 D-a-n-i-e-l, Daniel, J-o-r-a-n-k-o, and I'm staff 

21 coordinator of the United Methodist Nashville 

22 District Creation Care Ministries. I'm also 
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1 steering committee member of Tennessee Interfaith 

2 Power and Light, a statewide network of faith 

3 groups that spiritually responds to the moral 

4 challenges of climate change. I teach at 

5 Vanderbilt Divinity School. 

6 Climate change is a defining challenge of 

7 our generation. If we do not act to mitigate the 

8 impact of carbon in our atmosphere, our children 

9 and the children around the world will suffer 

10 greatly. We will see famine, refugees, and the 

11 breakdown of ecosystems on which we all depend. 

12 The good news for today is that you at 

13 the EPA are now regulating carbon as a pollutant. 

14 We now have a mechanism to mitigate our impact. 

15 We also have mechanisms to positively impact low16 income communities and all these communities 

17 should be included in the plan. 

18 United Methodist social principles teach 

19 that it is our duty to care for and protect 

20 creation. We have the duty to respect the 

21 natural systems on which we all depend and to 

22 steward our impacts so that we do not cause 
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1 damage and destruction but instead repair and 

2 restore. We also believe that government has an 

3 appropriate role to play in this stewardship. 

4 Good and thoughtful governance is essentially to 

5 protecting the common good. 

6 We live in a time where public servants 

7 are too often maligned, so my word for today is 

8 keep up the good work, stay the course, and be 

9 open to what science, strong ethical principles, 

10 and good policy would take us. 

11 Thank you. 

12 MS. HEARD: Thank you. 

13 MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. The next 

14 two speakers are Scott Danbury and Kemmer 

15 Anderson. 

16 MR. DANBURY: Thank you for having me. 

17 Scott Danbury. The last name is spelled 

18 D-a-n-b-u-r-y, from Memphis, Tennessee. I work 

19 with the Sierra Club in Tennessee as a 

20 conservation program coordinator. 

21 I first became aware of the problem of 

22 climate change in 1988, while working as a forest 
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1 protection activist while in school in 

2 California, and we went to see Dr. James Hansen 

3 give a lecture on climate change. We were 

4 interested in him from the point of view of the 

5 impacts of deforestation around the world and 

6 what impact that would have on climate change and 

7 what impact it would have relative to removing 

8 the biomass sink that we have for carbon found in 

9 forests. 

10 Since then I've worked with many 

11 organizations to address the problem and I really 

12 applaud the EPA for now finally bringing this 

13 full circle, recognizing the direness of the 

14 problem that we face and taking action it. 

15 That said, I do have a couple of 

16 suggestions about how we can make this plan a 

17 little bit better. One is do not recognize 

18 biomass fuel stocks as being clean energy. It's 

19 been a mistake that's been made in Europe that's 

20 led to deforestation across vast areas of our 

21 south Gulf forests in the United States. In 

22 South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida we're seeing 
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1 moves of industry come up into the Tennessee 

2 Valley. We kept them out of our valley when they 

3 came with chip mills for pulp and paper 

4 production and we don't want to have to have that 

5 fight again over biomass energy stocks. 

6 We do recognize that in some cases 

7 communities have made investments in power 

8 generation using gasification systems, but we 

9 also question those because to keep them 

10 sustainable, oftentimes the refuse or garbage 

11 source that they would be relying on runs out and 

12 then they turn to virgin forests and cutting and 

13 chipping to feed themselves. 

14 I really applaud -- and this is grand 

15 surprise, almost like a birthday present to all 

16 of us -- when you announced the incentives that 

17 you were going to put in place for the Clean 

18 Energy Incentives Program. I'm from Memphis, 

19 from a community where we have a 27 percent 

20 poverty rate right now. We luckily made a 

21 decision to, in 2018, shut down the coal-burning 

22 power plant we had there that was contributing to 
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1 our title as "the asthma capital of the United 

2 States," and we'd like to get rid of that title. 

3 That's not the number one that we want. And 

4 we're replacing it with a natural gas plant. 

5 We're very concerned that that is going 

6 to leave our most economically vulnerable 

7 communities most vulnerable whenever we see price 

8 spikes in natural gas pricing. We're going to 

9 now be getting our electricity and our hot water 

10 and our home heating all from the same fuel 

11 source. So the investments that we can make in 

12 energy efficiency and distributed power 

13 generation within our lower-income communities is 

14 going to help buffer them from the impacts of 

15 those potential price spikes, or easily foreseen 

16 price spikes, and we really appreciate you 

17 putting that plan in. 

18 Again, just to kind of impart, don't have 

19 biomass be clean and put as much money as you can 

20 into our lower-income communities. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MS. HEARD: Thank you. Any questions? 
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1 [No audible response.] 

2 MS. HEARD: Mr. Anderson. 

3 MR. ANDERSON: I'm Kemmer Anderson from 

4 Chattanooga, Tennessee. I'm with the Cherokee 

5 Sierra Club. I still teach, and have been for 38 

6 years, at McCallie School teaching English in 

7 Chattanooga. 

8 Actually, I first learned about energy 

9 conservation while serving in the United States 

10 Army in Korea in 1969. In 1971, in the old city 

11 of Jerusalem, the Palestinians taught me a 

12 parable. There's two kinds of pilgrims -- one 

13 who comes searching for God, the other who comes 

14 searching for oil. Which are you? 

15 From a sonnet sequence entitled "In Time 

16 of War," W. H. Auden writes, "And like a 

17 conscience the sun ruled his days." 

18 We have a conscience not to worship wind 

19 and sun as mythological beings in the Homeric 

20 epics I teach, but to harness the gifts, as 

21 Jefferson reminds us, the gifts of Nature's God. 

22 We need a declaration of natural energy that 
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1 potentially uses wind, sun, and water, 

2 hydropower, geothermal, to power our 

3 neighborhoods. The Clean Air Act is an act of 

4 conscience. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MS. HEARD: Thank you, Mr. Anderson. 

7 MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. Our next 

8 speakers are Cynthia Hernandez and Dr. Mary 

9 Headrick. 

10 Push the green button and you should see 

11 a red light. Thank you. 

12 MS. HERNANDEZ: Hi. My name is Cynthia 

13 Hernandez. That's spelled C-y-n-t-h-i-a, 

14 Hernandez, H-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z. 

15 I've traveled today 275 miles from Nashville, 

16 Tennessee to share my support for the Clean Power 

17 Plan, and I want to thank you for holding this 

18 hearing and allowing me and the public to weigh 

19 in on this historic proposal. I also want to 

20 thank the government for creating the EPA, who 

21 does a good job providing significant efforts to 

22 protect the health of all Americans. 
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1 In our capitalistic society, we need this 

2 organization to set regulations on big polluters. 

3 Policies should be made, taking into account what 

4 is best for the people and the public health 

5 before profit and big corporations. 

6 I felt the need to make this trip on 

7 behalf of my three children. It is my 

8 responsibility to be a voice for them and do 

9 whatever I can to protect their future, as well 

10 as the voiceless children all over the world, and 

11 the people. I have recently discovered what is 

12 most important. I love life, I love clean air, I 

13 love clean water, I love my children, and like 

14 most other moms, that's what's most important, is 

15 to take care of my children, providing a better 

16 future. 

17 This is why I decided to go back to 

18 school and study environmental science. I've 

19 learned a lot in my studies. Coal technology is 

20 over 300 years old, and in the last 50 years or 

21 so we've come up with plenty of other different 

22 options that are better, and I feel like the 
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1 reason we go to school is so that we can progress 

2 and do out with the old and in with the new. 

3 Basically we are going to be better, more 

4 healthy. 

5 So there's this denial we have going on 

6 in politics right now. I do believe CO2, in 

7 excess, is toxic and anything that's toxic is 

8 harmful to humans and also other life forms, so I 

9 am in support of the Clean Power Plan to reduce 

10 emissions and I hope that the United States can 

11 be a leader in this effort because the rest of 

12 the world is watching us. I thank President 

13 Obama and his administration for taking the first 

14 step in creating a cleaner, brighter future. 

15 MS. HEARD: Thank you. Dr. Headrick. 

16 DR. HEADRICK: Good morning. Thank you 

17 for holding this public hearing to hear our 

18 remarks. I'm Dr. Mary, M-a-r-y, Headrick, 

19 H-e-a-d-r-i-c-k. I'm a physician of internal 

20 medicine, which is viewed as a physician of 

21 adults. However, I've worked in the emergency 

22 room for 30 years along with primary care 
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1 practice so I've seen many children. 

2 Let me describe to you, as an emergency 

3 room physician told by the nurse that there is an 

4 infant or toddler in respiratory distress. 

5 First, before I even walk into the room, I listen 

6 to hear if the child is crying. That's a 

7 wonderful, wonderful sign if that child can still 

8 cry. Then when I enter the room I say, well, has 

9 your child been able to take his or her bottle? 

10 Have they been able to -- have they had enough 

11 wind to be able to suck in between breaths? Have 

12 they been able to consume enough fluids in this 

13 respiratory environment that they're able to pee 

14 and wet their diaper? 

15 So those are the early questions, unless 

16 the child has already stopped breathing. And 

17 then if the child isn't unclothed, I lift that 

18 blanket, or I lift that shirt, and I look at the 

19 lungs. You see the ribs, and for a child who is 

20 in great digress you see the traction, where the 

21 skin pulls back between those ribs because 

22 they're working so hard trying to generate 
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1 pressure to breathe. 

2 Now we all know, from scientific 

3 evidence, that ozone and other irritants related 

4 to sulfur, nitrogen, and the black carbon with 

5 the 2.5 ppm, small particles, are causes of 

6 asthma and COPD. Since 1980, the incidence of 

7 asthma in pediatric patients has more than 

8 doubled, and the mortality rate has increased. I 

9 believe the current, according to CDC, is 1.7 per 

10 100,000 of the infants and children under 18 are 

11 asthma-related deaths, so we have a higher 

12 mortality. We have asthma and COPD at a higher 

13 incidence in adults. However, the mortality has 

14 decreased in that population. So our most frail, 

15 our youngest, are really being hit by the quality 

16 of air, and that's in the face of declining 

17 cigarette consumption and use at home. 

18 So this is something that we care about 

19 for our children and their future, and when I 

20 hear complaints about the cost of increased per21 kilowatt-hour with changing energy sources and 

22 electric generation, I want to say, "But what is 
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1 the cost if we do not do this? How many lives, 

2 how much suffering?" 

3 Now those are just the pediatric 

4 patients. I also have the geriatric and the 

5 adult patients, primarily the adult males who 

6 live alone and do not have air conditioning, who 

7 come into the emergency room because they have 

8 collapsed. I see if their skin is still wet. 

9 Can they still sweat? Are they in such distress 

10 that they are now dehydrated and their skin is 

11 dry, their mouth is dry, their conjunctiva in 

12 their eyes. I've treated those patients. 

13 Primarily they are adult males who live alone and 

14 don't have air conditioning, and don't have a 

15 wife to nag them to drink their water and to get 

16 in out of the sun. However, we also have the 

17 impaired, mentally ill patients, whether it's 

18 Alzheimer's, and they're struck by these very hot 

19 days. And I personally sheltered a single man 

20 who was in distress during one of our hot days 2 

21 years ago, and kept him for the weekend. So we 

22 have those extreme heat events. 
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1 Now, I know that the Clean Power Plan is 

2 to be implemented in part because of the health 

3 risks for not addressing these pollutants. We 

4 also have the pollutants, the smog, and we see 

5 the pictures of the Chinese mothers saying keep 

6 their children indoors because the smog is so 

7 bad, and all of the risks that we have for that. 

8 Additionally, to frail populations we have heart 

9 conditions or lung conditions or kidney 

10 conditions that make those extreme heat days or 

11 extreme weather events very difficult, and I've 

12 treated patients after a severe tornado, with all 

13 the broken bones, having to cancel all the 

14 elective bone surgeries so that we can put in 

15 these emergencies following the fallen tree, the 

16 fallen house, the fallen barn. 

17 So thank you for championing this. I 

18 hope you will be strong champions for a most 

19 powerful act you can, and I hope that we can 

20 respond by pressuring our elected officials to 

21 also support this and also to fund this in times 

22 to come. 
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1 Thank you very much for this opportunity 

2 to speak. 

3 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Thank you both. 

4 Our next speakers will be Dr. Marilyn Brown and 

5 Kate Anthony. 

6 DR. BROWN: Good morning. Thank you for 

7 this opportunity to speak about the EPA proposed 

8 federal plan and model rule. I am a professor, 

9 Brook Byers Professor of Sustainable Systems in 

10 the School of Public Policy at the Georgia 

11 Institute of Technology, where I lead the Climate 

12 Energy Policy Laboratory. 

13 And I'd like to start with some general 

14 remarks. The United States fossil fuel plants is 

15 our nation's single largest source of carbon 

16 pollution and one of the largest sources in the 

17 world. Climate change presents a clear and 

18 present danger to human health and the 

19 environment. As we just heard, all Americans 

20 need to be protected and it should be regardless 

21 of what state they live in. 

22 The Clean Power Plan will save thousands 
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1 of lives each year, tens of thousands of asthma 

2 attacks annually, and will help secure hundreds 

3 of thousands of Americans don't miss days of work 

4 due to harmful air pollution. The monetary value 

5 of the benefits from the Clean Power Plan are in 

6 the billions. 

7 So thank you, EPA, for finalizing the 

8 carbon pollution limits that give states a great 

9 deal of flexibility in how they will address 

10 these requirements. 

11 I want to speak to, now, the model rule. 

12 EPA has provided extensive support to states to 

13 help facilitate the development of their plans, 

14 and it now needs to finalize the model rule 

15 framework swiftly, to provide yet another tool in 

16 the toolbox, that states can use to plan a 

17 thoughtful reduction of their carbon pollution. 

18 Standardized models are needed to provide 

19 important guidance to states, to help them 

20 develop strong rules that ensure environmental 

21 integrity. Model rule frameworks can help reduce 

22 the burden that states have, the administrative 
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1 requirements necessary for states to provide the 

2 nuts and bolts of their regulatory programs and 

3 allowing them, instead, to spend their time 

4 addressing the desires of their stakeholders, to 

5 formulate plans that meet their stakeholders' 

6 requirements, such as the tradeoff between 

7 different clean electric power options. That's 

8 where they need to spend their time, not on the 

9 details. 

10 These finalized model rule frameworks 

11 will help facilitate interstate trading as well, 

12 by doing the heavy lifting on the detailed 

13 underpinnings of emissions trading programs, that 

14 can ease the paths to achieving pollution 

15 reductions by driving down costs and driving up 

16 innovation. So the trading-ready feature of the 

17 model rule is very important, a very important 

18 opportunity for states to be compatible with 

19 others, ensuring that companies and individuals 

20 have more flexibility and compliance. 

21 So I strongly encourage EPA to consider 

22 whether some component of the model rule might be 
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1 issued quite quickly following the closing of 

2 these comment periods. 

3 If states decline to carry out their 

4 responsibilities to protect human health and the 

5 environment from carbon pollution, it is EPA's 

6 responsibility to do so. That's why these model 

7 frameworks are so important. Protection of our 

8 communities and families from harmful air 

9 pollution is safeguarded under our nation's clean 

10 air laws, regardless of where one lives. It's a 

11 compelling bipartisan vision of the Clean Air Act 

12 formulated decades ago, that all Americans are 

13 entitled to the protection of clean air under 

14 law. 

15 But to realize this vision, to ensure 

16 that clean air for all Americans occurs, EPA must 

17 act in a timely and effective fashion to secure 

18 these reductions, even in states that decline to 

19 act themselves. 

20 We are in a race against time to address 

21 climate pollution. As Pope Francis said, climate 

22 change is a problem that can no longer left to 
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1 future generations. I endorse EPA's proposal to 

2 issue a federal plan for any state that does not 

3 meet one of the interim state planning 

4 milestones, and I urge EPA to do so within at 

5 least 1 year or less after finding that a state 

6 is not on track to submit a final state plan. 

7 And finally, it is EPA's responsibility 

8 to ensure that emission reductions occur, are in 

9 fact realized, so they need to move swiftly on 

10 accountability mechanisms to ensure that we can 

11 measure and appropriately monitor emission 

12 reduction. 

13 Thank you very much. 

14 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 

15 follow-up questions? 

16 [No audible response.] 

17 MS. ANTHONY: Hi. My name is Kate 

18 Anthony. K-a-t-e A-n-t-h-o-n-y. I here with 

19 the Sierra Club and I thank you for holding these 

20 hearings and giving me this opportunity. 

21 I wanted to speak to the issue of nuclear 

22 power. Many people, including some 
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1 environmentalists, are thinking of nuclear power 

2 as an acceptable alternative to oil and coal. 

3 This is a mistake. Uranium is not a renewable 

4 resource, and nuclear power is not clean power. 

5 We are aware of the issue of radioactive waste, 

6 tons of spent fuel rods and other radioactive 

7 materials that are left behind in the process of 

8 generating nuclear power. 

9 These materials must be guarded and kept 

10 safe for the next 10,000 years. Ten thousand 

11 years, if we look back, is to the Stone Age, when 

12 early humans hunted mastodons. It makes no sense 

13 to think that we can keep radioactive materials 

14 safe over eons of time like this. We have 

15 already failed to do so. We have already found 

16 radioactive waste leaking. 

17 But that's only one of the problems with 

18 nuclear power. Uranium is mined as pitchblende 

19 ore. Tons of pitchblende must be processed to 

20 obtain a few ounces of usable uranium. Yes, you 

21 heard that right. Tons of ore have to be chewed 

22 through to get ounces of usable uranium. All the 
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1 remainder of the tons of material are left behind 

2 as mine tailings. These materials still contain 

3 some low-level radioactivity, and these are in 

4 the form of a fine power, so it readily becomes 

5 airborne and waterborne, and is an ongoing 

6 environmental hazard. 

7 Nuclear power is a very expensive, very 

8 high tech, very dirty form of fuel. We don't 

9 need it. We have many forms of easily 

10 obtainable, renewable, solar, wind, tidal, and 

11 other clean power forms. 

12 So I ask you please to promote a strong 

13 and clean power plan that does not include 

14 nuclear power. 

15 Thank you. 

16 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 

17 questions? 

18 [No audible response.] 

19 MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. Our next 

20 speakers are Sandy Kurtz and Joshua Dobie. 

21 MS. KURTZ: My name is Sandra Kurtz. 

22 It's S-a-n-d-r-a K-u-r-t-z. You can call me 
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1 Sandy. 

2 Thank you for the opportunity here and 

3 thank you for your attentiveness. Taking notes, 

4 and it looks like you're going to listen and 

5 carry back our information and our opinions to 

6 your fellow EPA people. We appreciate that. 

7 I have a few notes here but I had not 

8 expected to speak, so this could be a little 

9 crazy. 

10 [Laughter.] 

11 MS. KURTZ: I noticed that in the EPA 

12 statement, when you were talking about the Clean 

13 Power Plan, says on August 3, 2015, President 

14 Obama and EPA announced the Clean Power Plan, a 

15 historic and important step in reducing carbon 

16 pollution from power plants, that takes real 

17 action on climate change, and that is the goal of 

18 these carbon emissions reductions, is the climate 

19 change effort. 

20 I want to follow up on Ms. Anthony's 

21 statements here to say that I don't think that 

22 nuclear power is the way to go if you are 
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1 addressing climate change, and it is not clean, 

2 it is not zero carbon if you count the nuclear 

3 fuel chain itself. While it is less than coal, 

4 admittedly, it has all the waste issues. Kind of 

5 the Clean Power Plan to reduce carbon and include 

6 nuclear is like setting out for unintended 

7 consequences, because with nuclear power there 

8 are so many other pollutants that are put out 

9 with nuclear power that they seem to be 

10 overlooked, if you're just looking at carbon 

11 alone. 

12 I just want to echo the words of Arjun 

13 Makhijani, who is the famous nuclear physicist 

14 who wrote the book, "Carbon-Free Nuclear-Free by 

15 2050." I think he said it better than I can, and 

16 understands it, no doubt, in great complexity. 

17 These are his words: 

18 "It is too costly" -- speaking of nuclear 

19 power -- "it takes too long, and hence, does not 

20 address the problem of drastically reducing 

21 carbon emissions in time. Using nuclear as a 

22 main element for low-carbon energy system would 
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1 create vast amounts of plutonium each year, 

2 enough to make tens of thousands of nuclear 

3 weapons. We already have too many of those. 

4 "Enrichment plants of significant size 

5 would have to be built somewhere each year to 

6 feed these plants, creating terribly difficult, 

7 possibly unmanageable materials accounting 

8 problems and proliferation risks. Severe 

9 accident consequences are unacceptable. For one 

10 thing, they are intergenerational. Future 

11 generations can dismantle wind turbines and 

12 recycle the materials, but nuclear waste is 

13 essentially forever. Transmutation is not a 

14 solution. 

15 "Nuclear energy is incompatible with 

16 openness and democracy in certain fundamental 

17 ways. Nuclear energy is incompatible with 

18 variable sources of energy, notably solar and 

19 wind. It uses too much water, which is an 

20 increasingly precious resource. 

21 "Nuclear energy is 24/7 until it is 

22 0/365. As we have seen time and again, 
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1 especially in recent years, you can loss all 

2 suddenly, for prolonged periods, for a variety of 

3 reasons," and of course we all remember 

4 Fukushima. And, in fact, nuclear plants have to 

5 refuel every 18 months, so they're bound for that 

6 time. So base-load nuclear is not a forward7 thinking solution. 

8 Number 10 in Dr. Makhijani's list: "No 

9 reasonable workable solution to protect future 

10 generations from nuclear waste, including the 

11 fissile materials in it, exists. Several 

12 radionuclides of spent fuel pose threats for 

13 unimaginably long periods for unimaginably long 

14 periods. This includes plutonium 239, and there 

15 are others. Uranium mining and milling has had 

16 devastating impacts on communities" -- here's the 

17 justice part -- "notably native communities and 

18 in developing countries, including when they were 

19 colonies. These impacts continue. 

20 "We know how to address the problem of 

21 CO2 emissions better, faster, and cheaper with 

22 efficiency, solar and wind as the main energy 
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1 sources, without any other risks associated with 

2 coal or nuclear. And along the way, we can build 

3 a more democratized, resilient energy system than 

4 the one we have. We don't need nuclear power to 

5 address climate change, and should prepare to 

6 phase out existing reactors instead of keeping 

7 uneconomic lemons online." 

8 MS. GETTLE: Your time is up. 

9 MS. KURTZ: I'm sorry. Let me say one 

10 more thing. I live in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 

11 We are surrounded, depending on which way the 

12 wind is blowing, by now, soon to be seven nuclear 

13 reactors. The wind blows our way. There is 

14 tritium in the water. There are radionuclides in 

15 the air daily. It's really scary. 

16 So I'm hoping that the allowances for 

17 nuclear power that got changed from the original 

18 draft, I'm hoping that these will be tightened up 

19 and nuclear Watts Bar 2, the nuclear power 

20 reactor that's coming online here, probably by 

21 the end of the year, they're calling it the first 

22 key nuclear of this generation, and let's hope 
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1 it's the last. 

2 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Ms. Kurtz. Mr. 

3 Dobie. 

4 MR. DOBIE: Hi. My name is Josh Dobie 

5 [ph]. I'm originally from New Orleans but I'm 

6 here from Chattanooga, Tennessee. This Clean 

7 Power Plan is a great first step. It's something 

8 that's critically needed, an effort to prevent 

9 climate conducing events, a lot of things really. 

10 The biggest concern I have is my 

11 generation has pretty much lost interest in the 

12 debate. There's not very many climate change 

13 deniers in my generation, but, at the same time, 

14 they don't want to get involved because they feel 

15 like they can't do anything. They have no power 

16 compared to anybody in the generation above them. 

17 For one, they have no voice, two, they have no 

18 power, and three, we have no money, so that's the 

19 biggest concern. But this plan could be a step 

20 in the right direction, so that way we can see 

21 that it's not the companies that are in charge. 

22 It could be the voice of the people. 
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1 So that being said, if we can keep 

2 pursuing the Clean Power Plan and plans like it, 

3 if we can keep the states from protesting, if we 

4 can actually have -- if it feels like we have a 

5 voice, even my generation maybe will do something 

6 in the future. 

7 My background is in paleontology and 

8 biology, so I agree that the human aspects of all 

9 this is incredibly critical, but it's not my 

10 expertise. I'm here to talk about the natural 

11 losses we'll suffer if we don't do something. 

12 I'm going to speak on a much more -- on a more 

13 tangible scale than what we do in paleontology or 

14 what people talk about when they think about 

15 climate change. 

16 In reality, there's ecosystems all over 

17 the South, which problematically, most of the 

18 states in the South -- actually, all the states 

19 in the South, other than Virginia and Kentucky, 

20 which are staying silent, and they might 

21 eventually follow suit as well -- are where most 

22 of the biodiversity in the northern hemisphere 
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1 is, and there were almost -- and it's a very high 

2 percentage in North America, primarily in the 

3 southern Appalachians. From my research in 

4 paleontology, looking at both the Miocene and the 

5 Pliocene, so 10,000 years ago and 5 million years 

6 ago, the southern Appalachian Mountains are the 

7 last-ditch effort for animals to survive. As 

8 they get eastward, as climate changes, then they 

9 end up in these high elevations that mirrored the 

10 climate that they're used to being in, and once 

11 they're gone from the southern Appalachians, 

12 they're extinct. 

13 I'm not going to give you a laundry list 

14 of animals, but a salamander is a really good 

15 example. We have 55 species' of salamanders in 

16 the southern Appalachians, within maybe 100 

17 miles, and there are only -- I think it's 850, or 

18 680 species of salamanders in the entire world. 

19 Twenty-one species are now endemic to the 

20 southern Appalachians, which means they live 

21 nowhere else, and these only live in small, 

22 isolated communities. The southern Appalachians, 
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1 and there are areas in Georgia, North Carolina, 

2 South Carolina, that are the last tiny, tiny 

3 remnants of broad-leaf deciduous forests, so once 

4 these are gone, then all the species that have 

5 been evolving for millions of years in these 

6 localities, that were across the entirety of 

7 North America, are going to be extinct. 

8 The reason I bring up salamanders in the 

9 southern Appalachians is because it's in between 

10 two states, which have, in the last few years, 

11 and especially in the last couple of decades, 

12 have taken a very conservative swing, and that's 

13 North Carolina and Tennessee. So most of our 

14 most important and critically endangered 

15 resources are between these two states that don't 

16 want anything to have to do with Federal 

17 Government regulations, and the EPA cannot let 

18 them slip through. They can't let them take them 

19 -- they can't let them say, well, we have less 

20 money than everybody else, or we have this, that, 

21 or the other, and therefore we should be subject 

22 to such strict regulations. 
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1 In reality, they have the most to lose. 

2 If they lose these ecosystems, they lose tourism, 

3 they lose resources, and eventually it will cause 

4 the loss of people, at least in certain areas 

5 when they become uninhabitable. So they have the 

6 greatest loss, and so by saying that they don't 

7 have the money to prevent it, that's a copout, 

8 and they need to be forced into these 

9 regulations. 

10 Thank you. 

11 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Thank you both. 

12 Our next two speakers are Anne Blair and Marilyn 

13 Evans. 

14 MS. BLAIR: Thank you. Good morning. My 

15 name is Anne Blair, A-n-n-e B-l-a-i-r. 

16 Thank you for the opportunity today to 

17 speak to you regarding the federal implementation 

18 plan of the historic Clean Power Plan. I am a 

19 native North Carolinian, a 15-year resident of 

20 Georgia, and Program Director for the Southern 

21 Alliance for Clean Energy, a regional nonprofit 

22 organization in the Southeast. 
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1 Air quality remains a serious public 

2 health issue in many of our major cities in the 

3 Southeast. Atlanta is currently in nonattainment 

4 for both ozone and fine particular pollution, two 

5 pollutants that will also be reduced thanks to 

6 the Clean Power Plan limits on CO2. 

7 As you well know, the Southeast is 

8 currently home to 73 utility-owned coal plants. 

9 We have the dirtiest coal plant in the country, 

10 Georgia Power's Plant Scherer. According to the 

11 NAACP Coal Blooded Report, nearly 6 million 

12 Americans live within 3 miles of a coal power 

13 plant. These communities have an average per 

14 capita income of just $18,000 per year. Thirty15 nine percent of people living within 3 miles of 

16 the coal plant are people of color. Low-income 

17 communities and communities of color are 

18 disproportionately affected by our reliance on 

19 coal for energy. But not only are these 

20 communities vulnerable to air quality problems 

21 but also to climate change. 

22 Even more, it's often harder for these 
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1 families that are on low income or a fixed income 

2 to recover from emergency weather events due to 

3 lack of financial resources. We have a poverty 

4 crisis in our country, and in the South in 

5 particular. Our region includes four out of the 

6 top five states with the highest percentage of 

7 people below the federal poverty guideline. In 

8 Georgia alone, 1.8 million people live below that 

9 line, and they could use all the help they could 

10 get. 

11 The Clean Power Plan represents a 

12 critical crossroads for low-income families. The 

13 compliance pathways adopted by states could 

14 either lead to more affordable bills focusing on 

15 low-income energy efficiency programs, or result 

16 in higher bills that could lead to financial 

17 breaking points for millions of people. For low18 income families, utility bills represent a very 

19 large part of their monthly budgets, and the 

20 inability to keep up with the high utility bills 

21 is the second-leading cause of homelessness. 

22 While many low-income families in the 
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1 Southeast pay electric rates that are below the 

2 national average, we have some of the highest 

3 bills in the country. In fact, seven of the ten 

4 states with the highest average residential 

5 electric bills are located in the South. 

6 However, for decades now, utilities across the 

7 country have developed best practices for 

8 utilizing energy efficiency programs to help 

9 customers lower their bills. In addition, it has 

10 been proven time and again that it's more 

11 effective to reduce usage through energy 

12 efficiency than build new generating capacity. 

13 As a result, some states have adopted 

14 regulations that require utilities to look at 

15 energy efficiency first in their resource 

16 planning. Unfortunately, none of those states 

17 are in the Southeast, and our utilities continue 

18 to waste ratepayer dollars by failing to fully 

19 invest in cost-effective solutions. Without 

20 sufficient incentives and mandates in the Clean 

21 Power Plan, there is no assurance that 

22 Southeastern utilities will change course and 
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1 embrace energy efficiency as the centerpiece of 

2 their resource planning decisions. 

3 Our organization, Southern Alliance for 

4 Clean Energy, applauds EPA for taking 

5 environmental justice into account in the Clean 

6 Power Plan, and for providing the opportunity to 

7 earn extra credit for low-income energy 

8 efficiency and renewable energy like wind and 

9 solar. However, in any revisions to the rule, 

10 the Clean Energy Incentive Program, the Federal 

11 Compliance Plans, and technical support 

12 documents, we encourage the EPA to continue to 

13 seek ways to drive investment in cost-effective 

14 energy efficiency with particular focus for low15 income programs. 

16 States will provide specific 

17 recommendations when we fill our comments in late 

18 January. With the exception of Tennessee, most 

19 Southeast states are currently part of lawsuits 

20 challenging the Clean Power Plan. This makes a 

21 federal plan even more important. In the event 

22 that our states do not submit acceptable plans, 
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1 it's vital that there's a strong federal plan 

2 that affords the benefits to our vulnerable 

3 communities and helps foster clean energy jobs. 

4 The Federal Implementation Plan should 

5 include equitable policies that make long-term 

6 investments into our communities. Finally, we 

7 strongly encourage the EPA to continue and expand 

8 in engagement with Southeast regulators, 

9 stressing the importance for states to use the 

10 environmental justice screening tool to determine 

11 how best to identify and engage with vulnerable 

12 communities, who have long suffered the negative 

13 health effects of coal-powered power plans. 

14 Thank you for your time. 

15 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any comments or 

16 questions? 

17 [No audible response.] 

18 MS. GETTLE: Are you going to submit your 

19 statement? 

20 MS. BLAIR: Yes. I can drop them off. 

21 MS. GETTLE: Okay. Thank you. All 

22 right. Ms. Evans. 
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1 MS. EVANS: Good morning. My name is 

2 Marilyn Evans. You spell that M-a-r-i-l-y-n 

3 E-v-a-n-s, and I'm one of the leaders of National 

4 People's Action, and Communities United for 

5 Action, of Cincinnati, Ohio. I am here today to 

6 ask you, not only some business but to react, to 

7 put some strong writers, I would say some strong 

8 chiefs in the art of fablon [ph]. 

9 [Laughter.] 

10 MS. EVANS: We need some strong chiefs in 

11 the Clean Power Plan and the federal 

12 implementation pan. I have worked for clear air 

13 for the last 30 years. I have worked hard to get 

14 Cincinnati Environmental Justice Department to 

15 pass. But when we got it passed, there wasn't 

16 any money for it, so it's just sitting there. 

17 And taking a look back, we need protection from 

18 the dirty air, a lot of protection from dirty 

19 air, and we need a way to create clean, 

20 affordable power. 

21 I have raised 20 children. Some I had on 

22 my own and the others I adopted. I am a proud 
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1 grandmother of 19, and a great-grandmother of 10. 

2 I have worked so hard because of them. I want 

3 them to be able to play outside and breathe clean 

4 air. 

5 I wake up every night about four o'clock, 

6 coughing and gasping for air. So do many of my 

7 neighbors; they do the same thing. I always 

8 think of my friend and my neighbor, Frankie 

9 Ferguson. She was a tireless woman who started 

10 youth programs and micro-businesses in our 

11 neighborhood. She believed that our youth just 

12 needed opportunities to succeed, and she worked 

13 hard as a volunteer for the youth, putting these 

14 programs in place for the youth. 

15 Frankie thought she had 5 years to go, 

16 from COPD. She went from the environment woman 

17 to someone who couldn't leave her apartment when 

18 all of her options were gone. I watched her 

19 breathe and decline, and I watched her deal with 

20 pain. We lost a treasure in our community. And 

21 the part that makes me most angry is that Frankie 

22 didn't have to die. The polluters who filled our 
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1 air with toxic substance, and the trucks that 

2 spewed unsafe chemicals should be accountable. 

3 Low-income neighborhoods shouldn't have to 

4 shoulder the burden by ourselves. We need 

5 regulations that consider the accumulative of 

6 things, of all the power plants and factories, 

7 and their smokestacks. We need to punish the 

8 industries that are killing us. Power companies 

9 have polluted; they need to pay for the 

10 restoration program of low-income people and for 

11 the creation of clean power. We want low-income 

12 communities to be able to afford clean power. We 

13 need the information and the opportunity to 

14 create green, affordable power. 

15 We also want to ensure jobs in our 

16 communities through the green power generation. 

17 I'd like to think you for having me here 

18 today, and I hope you heard. Thank you. 

19 MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. The next 

20 speaker will be Roy Davis and Simieon Evans. 

21 Mr. Davis, are you ready? 

22 MR. DAVIS: Yes. My name is Roy Davis. 
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1 Thank you all for being here today. 

2 My name is Roy Davis. I'm a board member 

3 with CUFA, executive board member of CUFA, 

4 Communities United for Action. I'm also involved 

5 in NPA, which is the National People's 

6 organization. I traveled here from Cincinnati in 

7 order to let people know about the issues that we 

8 have, not only in Cincinnati but in other 

9 contingent state also, about the environment. 

10 We know we have big problems with the 

11 environment. I'm concerned more about our 

12 children, the ones who are going to grow up and 

13 run this country one day. We'd like for them to 

14 be healthy enough to make decisions with a clear 

15 mind and brain, and the environment does have a 

16 way of destroying a person's body, mind, and 

17 soul. What we need today is some type of 

18 implement to make this happen, that the key is to 

19 grow up without all the toxins and stuff in the 

20 air. 

21 Myself, I've been diagnosed with COPD, 

22 and that's definitely a breathing problem. It's 
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1 chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has a 

2 lot to do with your breathing, of course, and 

3 being that I'm a veteran, whereas that I survived 

4 where many did not come home. And now I'm here 

5 dying of this environmental thing, a slow death. 

6 I go off to war and the whole idea is to survive 

7 and I get here and I'm dying from this breathing. 

8 Either way, it's a challenge, and I find this 

9 challenge here ridiculous that we have to come 

10 all the way home and then die, for breathing. I 

11 feel strongly against that. 

12 I am survivor and I'm sure we all are 

13 survivors. At this particular time, I 

14 [inaudible] in Cincinnati. I live about 100 

15 yards from a trucking company. Every morning, I 

16 get up in the morning, the trucks start up. When 

17 trucks start up, what happens? The gas and fuel 

18 go in the air, and with my COPD I have to put a 

19 mask on to breathe. No oxygen. People say, 

20 "Move from there. Move." When you've got 20 

21 years, you cannot be moving. That takes a little 

22 something, too. It's not the moving -- let's 
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1 make things better in the neighborhood. Let's 

2 not make everybody have to move out of the 

3 neighborhood. Let's do something to cause 

4 businesses to create a better environment for the 

5 neighborhood. 

6 So I hope someone is listening to me 

7 about that, and I feel strongly about the 

8 elderly. Believe it or not, I'm a senior. I'll 

9 be 70 years old soon, and my health is very 

10 important to me. I try to stay healthy, and 

11 being a military person also, but what I'm 

12 concerned about now is life itself, to expand our 

13 lives, not to make a short life for ourselves and 

14 our children. 

15 So implementing certain things to make 

16 this better. I'm asking for four things, to make 

17 sure that people who are polluting our air have 

18 to pay to support renewable energy and 

19 weatherization in low-income communities; to make 

20 renewable energy affordable and available to low21 income people; and doesn't promote fracking, 

22 natural gas or nuclear energy, which causes other 
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1 environmental problems. 

2 I'm going to close this with something -- 

3 it's military again. Is there anyone here from 

4 the military? When you've been in the service, 

5 you think it over. I defend my country from 

6 hostile environments, and also -- I'm sorry. I'm 

7 still talking about the military. I'm getting 

8 kind of messed up here. I defended my country 

9 from foreign and domestic entities. Domestic 

10 entities are the enemies around you. I consider 

11 this problem as an enemy. It's an enemy to all 

12 of us, and we have to fight it also, for our 

13 neighbors, for our communities. It goes on and 

14 on. 

15 So if you can fight for your own life, 

16 and we are, we are -- you may not think so but we 

17 are -- let's all get together and do something 

18 about making our lives a lot better. Okay? 

19 I want to thank you guys for giving me 

20 the time and opportunity to speak. 

21 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Mr. Davis. Mr. 

22 Evans? 
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1 MR. EVANS: Hello. My name is Simieon 

2 Evans. I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm with 

3 Working With Neighborhoods [ph] and Communities 

4 United for Action. I grew up in low-income 

5 housing all my life and even as a child I could 

6 see smokestacks going 7 days a week, 365 days, 

7 and never stopping. And as I got older, the 

8 smokestacks have not stopped but they have gained 

9 and increased in size and numbers in our 

10 communities. It's kind of sad that in our 

11 community it's a 20-year life expectancy, then 10 

12 miles away, in other communities that doesn't 

13 have industrial pollution, smokestacks, and 

14 landfills right outside the doors. 

15 I have children of my own, which we 

16 really can't let them play outside in over 90-

17 degree weather because of the smog alerts in 

18 Cincinnati, and the air is of poor quality any 

19 other time of the summer. 

20 I come from a state where they are 

21 actually suing the Federal Government over the 

22 Clean Power Plan act. So we're pretty sure they 
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1 don't have a plan to implement. So we're hoping 

2 that the federal plan is strong, punishes the 

3 culprits who are polluting the air instead of 

4 just slapping them on the wrist, and letting them 

5 get away with what they've been doing for all the 

6 years. 

7 We would like to limit the number of 

8 factories that goes in one area, because it seems 

9 like they're all being put in low-income areas, 

10 and they're getting permits to keep spewing 

11 pollution into our air, right outside our doors, 

12 and we really can't do nothing about it. It 

13 seems like we don't have anybody to protect us 

14 from them. 

15 And we took some action and all to 

16 helping improve our air. We planted trees, did 

17 gardens, the city cleaned up, but no one seemed 

18 to hear. I mean, it really helped because more 

19 factories are moving in our communities at 

20 alarming rates. 

21 So I just wanted to give you something to 

22 think about, and thank you for listening. 
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1 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Mr. Evans. Our 

2 next speakers are Braxton Bradley and Lindsay 

3 Pace. And I want to remind you that when you 

4 start to speak to please spell both your first 

5 and last names. 

6 MR. BRADLEY: Hi. I'm Braxton Bradley. 

7 It's spelled B-r-a-x-t-o-n B-r-a-d-l-e-y. 

8 Air is sacred. We all share it with 

9 living things. It doesn't matter the color of 

10 your skin, your income, your religion. Carbon 

11 emissions are at an all-time high. The records 

12 show that emissions are equivalent to mass 

13 extinctions on the planet, is what they're saying 

14 in science. By mass extinction I mean the rate 

15 that it's going at is a lot quicker, and it's a 

16 lot more prevalent. 

17 The Clean Power Plan is a moral 

18 imperative for life and humanity because of this, 

19 so I want to thank you, EPA, for protecting our 

20 sacred right, going in the direction of clean 

21 air. 

22 I have a child and I'm very concerned 
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1 about his future, not because of environmental 

2 implications but all the other madness that's 

3 kind of going on in the world, and it seems like 

4 the planet is just some sort of hospice right 

5 now. 

6 America is a great country, and we don't 

7 necessarily sometimes take it away but we do 

8 watch and see what works and we stand on it, and 

9 can make things good because we try to align with 

10 that self-interest. I don't know. I believe 

11 America wants to be a leader in the global 

12 energy, probably going to have to restructure the 

13 management. It's not going to be just throwing a 

14 bunch of coal, taxing to make it cheap, as a 

15 dirty fuel that's polluting our air, causing all 

16 these problems. I believe part of that plan is 

17 energy dissent. I know some of that is already 

18 happening. That's a good direction. Energy 

19 efficient buildings, too, so then we don't need 

20 as much energy on a mass scale, such as one 

21 switch kind of deal. 

22 And renewable energy is an appropriate 
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1 technology in this energy dissent. We get to 

2 that, to stay, because if it's out, what will 

3 work? Well, when it's on a mass scale like that, 

4 it can't, so part of the restructuring, as well 

5 as that management system, I believe part of that 

6 can be restructuring it for community power 

7 plants, especially in these areas where, because 

8 of income, they get the brunt of fossil fuel 

9 plants. 

10 If you go in these communities and start 

11 community clean air co-ops, this will be the 

12 well-being of the community. It will create 

13 jobs, high-value jobs. You don't have to be a -- 

14 you don't have to -- it will be a high-value job 

15 because we're working for a better cause. We're 

16 trying to do something better for the planet, for 

17 all, which is this sacred air that we breathe, 

18 that we need. 

19 America can renew the deal, and by doing 

20 this, you're going to bring well-being to the 

21 communities, the global community, and you're 

22 also going to -- you're also going to be able to 
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1 bring more equality to the people, rather than 

2 the liberties of a few, who just seem to be 

3 wanting to make a profit of all the subsidies in 

4 the coal plants and all this stuff that I don't 

5 really want to get into. That's for another 

6 meeting. 

7 But I just believe that's a very good 

8 thing that could happen, maybe in the future, and 

9 it's just one step at a time. [Inaudible, 

10 coughing], in a way. I mean, I could talk about 

11 Syria and how they cut all the trees down, okay? 

12 Climate change happened really quick where they 

13 couldn't feed themselves, the prices of food went 

14 up, and things collapsed. We can look at that. 

15 It's what not to do. 

16 I feel like I had one other thing to say. 

17 Oh yeah. So, okay. Another thing. The sun and 

18 wind are free, okay, so these low-income places, 

19 that's where you start, so then we don't have to 

20 take from the liberties of these rich people and 

21 tax them and throw money at them. It's free. 

22 That's all I've got. 
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1 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Ms. Pace. Is 

2 the red light on? You're good. If you just get 

3 close to the mic, so that the court reporter can 

4 hear you. 

5 MS. PACE: My name is Lindsey Pace and 

6 I'm the Tennessee Field Manager for Moms Clean 

7 Air Force. We're a community of parents, 

8 grandparents, aunts, and uncles that are unified 

9 in the knowledge that air pollution is not only 

10 affecting our children's health but also their 

11 futures. I stand here today as a mom, a former 

12 teacher, and a long-time advocate for our 

13 youngest citizens. I am speaking on behalf of 

14 their collective voice, for our children 

15 disproportionately bear the harshest impact of 

16 our changing climate. 

17 Children are at higher risk for the 

18 negative health effects of our changing climate, 

19 including respiratory illness and asthma attacks. 

20 As I'm sure we all know, air pollution is a huge 

21 trigger for an asthma attack and in Tennessee we 

22 have almost 11.5 percent of our kids living with 
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1 asthma, which is higher than the national average 

2 of 10 percent. In Chattanooga, where I live, our 

3 rate of asthma is closer to 12.5 percent. 

4 Chattanooga, Memphis, and Knoxville are all in 

5 the top ten cities of hardest places to live with 

6 asthma, and growing up with a younger brother who 

7 suffered severely from asthma, there is nothing 

8 scarier than watching somebody not be able to 

9 perform the most basic function, which is 

10 breathing. 

11 According to the American Lung 

12 Association, approximately 55 million children 

13 are living in 191 counties nationwide where the 

14 air quality places them at risk for premature 

15 death, aggravated asthma, difficulty breathing, 

16 cardiovascular harm, and lower birth weight. 

17 America's Clean Power Plan will reduce greenhouse 

18 gas emissions from power plants by 30 percent, 

19 below 2005 levels, by the year 2030. So far this 

20 has been the single biggest action to fight 

21 climate change that our country has ever seen. 

22 The Clean Power Plan will also provide 
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1 immediate health benefits for everyone by 

2 reducing soot and smog causing pollution. Cuts 

3 of smog and soot that come along with reducing 

4 carbon pollution will bring major health benefits 

5 for American families. In 2030, this would mean 

6 up to 3,000 fewer premature deaths, 90,000 fewer 

7 asthma attacks in children, and 1,700 fewer 

8 hospital admissions, and avoiding 300,000 missed 

9 days of school and work. And as a teacher I know 

10 that so many of the kids I used to teach were 

11 absent from school a lot of times because of 

12 asthma attacks, or my brother, weeks at a time he 

13 was out, and that had a really big health impact 

14 but it also has a really big economic impact on 

15 family. 

16 Additionally, in a recent Harvard study, 

17 Tennessee was ranked as one of the top states in 

18 the nation for public health gains through 

19 implementation of the Clean Power Plan. As a 

20 mom, I do everything I can to protect my 

21 daughter. When we go in the car, I make sure 

22 she's in the car seat, I take her to her doctor 
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1 for checkups, and I buy her healthy food to eat. 

2 But what I can't do is ensure that the air she is 

3 breathing when she's playing outside is safe for 

4 her tiny developing lungs. I can't buy her clean 

5 air to breathe, and I can't guarantee that her 

6 health, her future, and her safety won't be 

7 impacted by climate change, because it already 

8 is. 

9 Climate change isn't some far off, in the 

10 future time. It's happening now, and we're 

11 already seeing the impacts of climate change, and 

12 if we continue down the path of unchecked 

13 greenhouse gases, we can expect to see an even 

14 larger increase in asthma attacks, heat- and 

15 bacteria-related illnesses, disruptions to our 

16 food and water supply, and more extreme weather 

17 disasters. 

18 The Clean Power Plan is the most 

19 impactful step in limiting the health impacts of 

20 climate change. I support the common sense 

21 solutions in the Clean Power Plan, starting with 

22 the EPA to limit the carbon pollution from our 
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1 power plants. While we have set limits for 

2 arsenic, mercury, and lead, we have, to this 

3 time, let power plants release as much carbon 

4 pollution as they want. It's time to set a limit 

5 on pollution that affects our kids' health. The 

6 Clean Power Plan is a historic step forward to 

7 give our kids and grandkids the cleaner, safer 

8 future they deserve. 

9 And thank you so much for this 

10 opportunity to testify. 

11 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. 

12 [Applause.] 

13 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Our next two 

14 speakers are Colleen Kiernan and Ginny Kincer. 

15 MS. KIERNAN: Good morning. My name is 

16 Colleen Kiernan. I'm the Director of the Georgia 

17 Chapter of the Sierra Club. We have over 55,000 

18 members and supports in Georgia, and stabilizing 

19 our climate is top priority. We recently saw 

20 tidal flooding on our coast which stranded 

21 residents of Tybee Island for 2 days, and we know 

22 that the frequency of floods, drought, severe 
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1 weather, and disease will only increase unless we 

2 take immediate and serious action to reduce the 

3 pollution that causes climate change. And for 

4 this first step I'd like to thank EPA, though I 

5 am a bit disappointed on the less stringent 

6 targets for Georgia in the final rule. 

7 We're here today to talk about the new 

8 parts of the rule, the Federal Implementation 

9 Plan, which Georgia officials have assured us we 

10 will not resort to, but I'm here to say that it 

11 should not be weakened in any way, as that part 

12 of the rule is finalized. And we're also here to 

13 talk about the Clean Energy Incentive Program, 

14 which we think has great potential to spread the 

15 benefits of clean energy more equitably. 

16 So, yeah, those two things are great. 

17 What I would like to spend a couple of minutes 

18 talking about is my profound disappointment with 

19 Georgia Power's position on this issue. On 

20 October 23rd, they joined with the Utility Air 

21 Regulatory Group to challenge the rule. They 

22 submitted a filing in support of the lawsuit, and 
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1 in that filing John Pemberton, who is the chief 

2 of their transmission, or their generation unit, 

3 filed a declaration, and he talked a big game 

4 about how costly the rule was going to be and how 

5 they might not be able to keep the lights on as 

6 early as next year as a result, which will cost 

7 their customers untold millions -- $580 million 

8 was the number thrown out there. 

9 These claims are a bold disregard for the 

10 facts, and even if any of them are true, Georgia 

11 Power has already started on the path of reducing 

12 their carbon emissions, and the changes they've 

13 made so far, retiring coal units and buying cheap 

14 wind and solar, were not done to comply with the 

15 rule. These changes were made because they make 

16 economic sense, for shareholders and for rate 

17 payers. 

18 So one of the arguments they make in this 

19 filing is that they're going to need to retire 

20 4,800 megawatts of fossil fuel-fired units, 

21 constituting more than 20 percent of Georgia 

22 Power's generating capacity in 2016 alone. So 
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1 the whole point of the Clean Power Plan is that 

2 states get to choose. They're referencing EPA's 

3 Integrated Planning Model Analysis and saying 

4 that they are going to have to do these things, 

5 but of course we know that's not true. The 

6 compliance deadline, the first milestone, doesn't 

7 end until 2022, and so this entire argument that 

8 they've built after that is simply not true. You 

9 know, Georgia is in a fine position to get to 

10 2022 without even really have to do anything 

11 else. 

12 The other argument -- we get to decide. 

13 We get to decide, Georgia regulators, whether we 

14 go with our rate-based or a mass-based compliance 

15 regime. We get to decide whether we're going to 

16 trade with other states. We get to decide 

17 whether we allocate all of our pollution credits 

18 to existing plans or if we want to make room for 

19 new natural gas generation. 

20 They also spend quite a bit of time 

21 talking about the reserve margins. So this is 

22 the guideline that NERC gives, that we'd have 15 
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1 percent over the amount of capacity that we might 

2 need on the day that we reach the peak power. So 

3 we are, right now, today -- so they talk about 

4 after they shut down these 4,800 megawatts of 

5 coal plants that they're going to be dangerously 

6 -- they're going to, you know, be almost to zero 

7 in terms of the reserve margin capacity. 

8 This is an insane statement to make. We 

9 are currently at 37 percent reserve margin, so 

10 even if all 4,800, or across the Southern Company 

11 system, all 8,000 that they're talking about, 

12 megawatts of coal, have to be shut down, we will 

13 still be well above the 15 percent reserve 

14 margin. There is no danger that our lights are 

15 going to go off. We have more than enough coal16 fired power plants and other generation to be 

17 fine. 

18 So, yeah, I printed out -- this is a 

19 Summary Reliability Assessment from 2014 that 

20 shows -- and I did the math. So I took the 

21 current demand, which is 46,000 megawatts on the 

22 peak point, and the amount of megawatts that we 
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1 have, 63,000. So even if you shut down 8,000 

2 megawatts, we're still at 19.8 percent reserve 

3 margin. 

4 So Georgia is adding nuclear, solar, and 

5 wind, and even if they did do all of the 

6 retirements right away, which they're not 

7 required to do, these are wildly exaggerated cost 

8 figures and Georgia is already on the path to 

9 compliance. We have created over 20,000 jobs 

10 just in Georgia in the clean energy industry, 

11 which is more than the people who are employed in 

12 coal plants, nuclear plants, and natural gas 

13 plants combined. We have the ability to be a 

14 leader on the path to a clean energy future and 

15 EPA, I hope that you continue to hold our feet to 

16 the fire. 

17 Thank you. 

18 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 

19 questions? 

20 MS. HEARD: What Georgia Power filing 

21 were you referring to? 

22 MS. KIERNAN: It was a declaration by 
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1 John Pemberton. I printed it out. It's part of 

2 the Utility Air Regulatory Group filing that was 

3 made on October 23rd. 

4 MS. GETTLE: Anything else? 

5 [No audible response.] 

6 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Ms. Kincer. 

7 MS. KINCER: Thank you. My name is Ginny 

8 Kincer. That's G-i-n-n-y K-i-n-c-e-r. I want 

9 to thank all of you here in the audience, as well 

10 as listening. It really means a lot that there 

11 are so many people here, taking the time out of 

12 their day to be at this hearing. 

13 I am the Chief Operations Officer for 

14 Tennessee Solar Solutions in Chattanooga, 

15 Tennessee, a solar energy company that, in 2015, 

16 was ranked one of America's top solar companies, 

17 and the proud owner of 7.2 kilowatt solar energy 

18 system on my home. Tennessee Solar Solutions 

19 designs, installs, and maintains solar energy 

20 systems for residential, commercial, and 

21 agricultural energy needs. I'm here today to 

22 speak in support of the EPA's Clean Power Plan 
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1 and comment on the recently proposed Federal 

2 Implementation Plan from the viewpoint of the 

3 solar industry. 

4 As many of you know in this room, the 

5 solar industry is the fastest growing source of 

6 renewable energy in America, that I cued applause 

7 back there, I think. 

8 [Laughter.] 

9 MS. KINCER: There is now enough solar 

10 energy in the United States to power more than 

11 4.3 million homes, reducing carbon emissions by 

12 23.5 metric tons each year. The Clean Power Plan 

13 was spurs thousands of megawatts of additional 

14 solar deployment, in addition to 50,000 megawatts 

15 of projected, to come online before 2020. The 

16 Clean Power Plan is the key to making sure that 

17 those numbers continue to rise. 

18 Based on what I've said, you might think 

19 I'm using this opportunity as a self-serving 

20 purpose, but let me break this down a little 

21 further. Yes, the Clean Power Plan provides 

22 great opportunities. These opportunities are not 
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1 just for solar or renewable energy companies, but 

2 they're for economic growth and sustainable 

3 development, because investing in clean energy 

4 will create jobs and fuel economic growth in our 

5 country. In fact, the EPA estimates that the 

6 Clean Power Plan will deliver annual benefits of 

7 up to $93 billion by 2030. That is a direct net 

8 job gain of roughly 96,000. 

9 The solar energy industry has added more 

10 than 100,000 jobs in the last decade and now 

11 employs over 175,000 Americans. The Clean Power 

12 Plan will fuel more solar deployment and allow 

13 this unprecedented growth to continue. Solar is 

14 currently on track to achieve it's goal of 

15 becoming the most diverse sector in the United 

16 States energy industry, with already more than 

17 37,500 female solar workers across America, 

18 including myself. 

19 The most recent census found that the 

20 solar industry employed over 100,000 people in 

21 August of 2011, and that solar jobs were growing 

22 over ten times the rate of the overall U.S. 
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1 economy. When states choose to comply with their 

2 solar, they are choosing to invest in an industry 

3 committed to promoting diversity in the workforce 

4 as well, one that provides economic opportunity 

5 to everyone, regardless of gender, race, or 

6 sexual orientation. Clean energy workers 

7 comprise 1.6 percent of Tennessee's labor market. 

8 Most workers support installation and generation, 

9 but manufacturing sector has nearly grown by 10 

10 percent, adding about 1,249 new jobs. 

11 In 2015, clean energy firms in Tennessee 

12 supported 44,296 workers at 2,611 businesses. 

13 That's nearly half, 46 percent, of businesses 

14 respondent derived from the majority of their 

15 revenue from clean energy activities. This was 

16 an increase in 2,600 workers over 2014, which is 

17 6.3 percent, and businesses say they expect to 

18 create 2,500 more jobs by 2016. 

19 Energy efficiency and renewable energy 

20 comprise the bulk of Tennessee's clean energy 

21 industry, though alternative transportation does 

22 account for roughly 5,500 jobs, and about 70 
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1 percent of renewable technology firms indicate 

2 that solar is a primary technology. Bioenergy 

3 and geothermal are close in seconds, to represent 

4 a sizeable chunk of the business. 

5 While nearly 80 percent of the clean 

6 energy customers are within the state, 

7 Tennessee's strong manufacturing center supports 

8 the industry that is more export-driven than all 

9 the other states when similar studies have been 

10 conducted. Many clean energy businesses in 

11 Tennessee, about 44 percent, support in-state 

12 suppliers and vendors, while 49 percent source 

13 their equipment outside the state. Clean energy 

14 business demands public support to stimulate 

15 consumption. Nearly one-third, about 32 percent, 

16 of employer indicate that financial incentives 

17 would best accelerate the adoption of clean 

18 energy goods and services, and 26 percent of the 

19 employer suggested regulations and standards. 

20 A recent poll by Harvard says that the 

21 vast majority of Tennessee voters support the 

22 Clean Power Plan. 
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1 The Clean Power Plan will clean up our 

2 air and address climate disruption. It will also 

3 modernize how we power our country and economy, 

4 spurring innovation, and creating thousands of 

5 jobs and billions of dollars in new investment. 

6 I thank you, and as we say in Tennessee, 

7 we sure do appreciate ya. 

8 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Are there any 

9 follow-up questions? 

10 [No audible response.] 

11 MS. GETTLE: I want to remind you that if 

12 you have an extra copy and you want to leave a 

13 copy of your presentation with the court 

14 reporter, she would appreciate that. 

15 The next two speakers are Suzanne 

16 Smitherman and Aaron Pardieu. 

17 MS. SMITHERMAN: Hello. My name is 

18 Suzanne Smitherman, S-u-z-a-n-n-e 

19 S-m-i-t-h-e-r-m-a-n. And thank you for the work 

20 that you do. Thank you for being here. 

21 I was born in Chattanooga in 1952. The 

22 industrial city, as it does today, sat between 
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1 the mountains. Growing up, we had air you could 

2 see, smog you could smell. In the 1960s, in that 

3 city, local leaders of vision and courage made 

4 changes ahead of national requirements, and in 

5 1970, the year I graduated from high school, 

6 Richard Nixon signed the first Clean Air Act, and 

7 everybody's air began to look better, and smell 

8 better. 

9 By the time I was an adult, my children 

10 had better air to breathe than I had begun with. 

11 Smog or visible pollution continues to decline, 

12 but as many have said, we have a long way to go 

13 and low-income neighborhoods suffer the most. We 

14 are increasingly aware that greenhouse gasses 

15 continue to increase and we need new regulations 

16 for a new time. Our environmental laws are a 

17 generation out of date. The Clean Air Act has 

18 not been revised since 1990, a quarter of a 

19 century. The decisions we make this year will 

20 affect the air our children breathe, and those 

21 who come after them. 

22 Some environmental changes can be seen; 
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1 others can be measured. If we have the courage 

2 to look we can watch the ice melt; that can be 

3 measured. Alaska and Greenland and Arctic ice 

4 are melting away. God help us when they are 

5 gone. 

6 When I graduated from high school in 

7 1970, the measured carbon dioxide was close to 

8 300 parts per million; that can be measured. 

9 This month, the atmospheric carbon dioxide reach 

10 an ominous 400 parts per million, and the levels 

11 will increase and continue to rise exponentially 

12 unless we act now. 

13 So where are we going with this and why 

14 do we care? On some days I'm glad that I won't 

15 live to see the worst of it, as oxygen lowers and 

16 ice melts and oceans warm and storms increase, 

17 but this is not about me. I fear for my 

18 grandchildren. I have watched one of them 

19 struggle to breathe through her asthma attack and 

20 I worry even more about my grandchildren's 

21 grandchildren. What world will we leave for 

22 them? As carbon gasses increase, will next 
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1 generations have decent air to breathe? As the 

2 ice melts, will they have a beach to walk on? 

3 Will they ever see sand crabs or sea turtle 

4 nests? As more species are lost, will they see 

5 salamanders or Carolina bluebird? 

6 Today we have options. We can do things 

7 to give the next generations a better life. We 

8 can make the hard decisions and courageous 

9 actions that will leave them better air to 

10 breathe. We can make changes in the Clean Air 

11 Act now, and leave the world a better place, or 

12 we can sit back and watch the world change until 

13 it is too late -- to late to bring it back. 

14 Thank you. 

15 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Mr. Pardieu. 

16 MR. PARDIEU: Hello, and thank you for 

17 this opportunity to speak before you. My name is 

18 Aaron Pardieu. That's A-a-r-o-n P-a-r-d-i-e-u. 

19 I'm a volunteer member of the grassroots 

20 organization, Kentuckians For The Commonwealth, 

21 also known as KFTC. I'm a resident of 

22 Louisville, Kentucky, and I've studied the issues 
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1 faced by rural communities of the state 

2 pertaining to the transition away from a coal3 based economy, especially in eastern Kentucky and 

4 other parts of central Appalachia. 

5 KFTC applauds the EPA and the Obama 

6 administration for making a national step towards 

7 acknowledging and addressing climate change and 

8 the effects of carbon pollution. As seen 

9 throughout the United States and other regions of 

10 the globe, human-made climate change has the 

11 largest and most adverse impacts on low-income 

12 communities and communities of color. Flooding, 

13 severe heat waves, exposure to air pollutants and 

14 allergens, extreme weather events, and food 

15 scarcity will all increase without bold 

16 interventions, and these events will be felt 

17 first by people that are the most marginalized by 

18 our current economic and political systems. 

19 As Kentucky is likely to fall under a 

20 Federal Implementation Plan, KFTC has grave 

21 concerns about how possible model rules of cap 

22 and trade, whether rate-based or mass-based, will 
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1 impact front-line communities in both urban and 

2 rural Kentucky. Meaningful efforts to address 

3 climate change should prioritize principles of 

4 environmental justice. It is our fear the 

5 proposed cap and trade systems will allow big 

6 polluters to continue endangering the health of 

7 nearby communities. They are vulnerable to 

8 corruption, fraud, and leakage. They can 

9 incentivize deeply problematic approaches by 

10 awarding credits or allowances for types of 

11 energy generation or pollution offsets that are 

12 neither safe nor clean. At worst, they are a way 

13 of transferring wealth from rate-payers in 

14 heavily polluted places to investors in utilities 

15 who are creating new, clean energy jobs and 

16 better health conditions outside of Kentucky. 

17 We also believe the EPA did not do an 

18 adequate environmental justice analysis to 

19 understand the impact of the proposed Federal 

20 Implementation Plan and model pollution trading 

21 plans on low-income and people of color 

22 communities. Currently low-income and African 
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1 American residents of west Louisville are 

2 struggling to prevent the construction of 

3 biomass-digesting methane plants in their 

4 communities. These are communities where there's 

5 already a lot of industrial pollution. In rural 

6 regions of Kentucky, communities fear the 

7 inevitable detriment of their safety and natural 

8 water resources caused by natural gas drilling 

9 and liquid gas pipelines as coal jobs continue to 

10 climb. 

11 I urge the EPA to address these types of 

12 scenarios as the Clean Power Plan is implemented 

13 in the coming years, and prevent the FIP from 

14 incentivizing such false solutions. Furthermore, 

15 KFTC believes that FIP and model trading rules 

16 are shockingly weak on energy efficiency and 

17 should be strengthened. The proposed rate-based 

18 Federal Implementation Plan should, but does not, 

19 allow energy efficiency to generate emissions 

20 reduction credits, with the narrow exception of 

21 the Clean Energy Incentive Program. This is 

22 troubling, especially since the very states 
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1 requiring an FIP are also likely to have weak 

2 energy efficiency policies of their own. By 

3 disqualifying energy efficiency as a compliance 

4 option under a rate-based FIP, the EPA is greatly 

5 increasing the harm to rate-payers in non6 compliant states. 

7 I urge the agency to significantly 

8 increase the size of the renewable energy set 

9 aside within the mass-based plans, and allow 

10 energy efficiency projects to also qualify for 

11 these allowance. Under no circumstances should 

12 renewable energy allowances be restricted to 

13 projects whose owners or operators are affected 

14 fossil fuel generators. 

15 Any unused allowances from the renewable 

16 energy set aside under an FIP should be auctioned 

17 rather than given back to fossil fuel generators 

18 for free. The revenue should be used to support 

19 investments in a just transition for affected 

20 workers and communities, as well as for energy 

21 efficiency or renewable energy projects in low22 income communities. The EPA should strengthen 
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1 worker protections and do more to support a just 

2 transition for affected workers, especially in 

3 communities of color and hard-hit coal 

4 communities in eastern Kentucky. 

5 Thank you for the opportunity to testify. 

6 Being from Kentucky, we are very aware that our 

7 state is one of the places most likely to fall 

8 under a federal plan. I'm proud that the 

9 grassroots organization, Kentuckians For The 

10 Commonwealth, is working to engage people from 

11 all walks of life to come up with a model state 

12 plan. We believe it is possible to improve 

13 health, create jobs, expand access to affordable 

14 energy, and do our part to address climate 

15 change. We hope that our process can help inform 

16 the EPA's actions as well as decisions made 

17 within our own state, and shape a transition to 

18 brighter energy future in Kentucky. Although our 

19 state government is likely to sue the EPA, 

20 Kentuckians are not silent on this issue. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 
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1 [No audible response.] 

2 MS. GETTLE: Thank you both. Our next 

3 speaker is Lance Brown. It's just you, Mr. 

4 Brown. 

5 MR. BROWN: I get it all to myself. 

6 MS. GETTLE: You do. 

7 MR. BROWN: All right. My name is Lance 

8 Brown. I'm with PACE. I live in Montgomery, 

9 Alabama. Thank you for having these hearings. 

10 In July of last year, I rose to represent the 

11 concerns of more than 20 partners across the 

12 Southeast. These included energy users, large 

13 and small, who want to keep their lights on and 

14 factory machines running at an affordable price. 

15 We delivered the clear message that customers 

16 nationwide will be affected negatively by the new 

17 carbon regulations proposed by EPA. We have no 

18 doubt that the rule will raise the price of 

19 electricity, contrary to EPA's assertion. 

20 We argue, then, that the rule will make 

21 the price of electricity more volatile by forcing 

22 utilities to use more natural gas, and that the 
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1 rule will establish winners and losers in the 

2 energy marketplace. We asserted these points in 

3 July of last year and we assert them again today. 

4 We also pointed out things that the rule 

5 would not do, and this is important. We included 

6 in our remarks the testimony to Congress by EPA 

7 Chief Gina McCarthy in September of 2013, that 

8 the agency's regulation of carbon dioxide would 

9 not cause any measureable change in the agency's 

10 26 indicators of climate change. Administrator 

11 McCarthy, nor anyone else at EPA, has ever 

12 produced any data for the American public that 

13 shows what positive effect this new rule will 

14 have on the agency's 26 climate indicators. 

15 Isn't the core of any good piece of public policy 

16 the prediction that it will have positive 

17 empirical results? 

18 We asserted in July of last year that if 

19 Americans truly realized that their government 

20 was trading affordable power prices and a strong 

21 and stable electricity portfolio only for 

22 political leverage they would not support the 
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1 rule. We predicted they would be angry and 

2 disappointed and wondering why the Executive 

3 Branch had made such a bad bargain. We've spent 

4 the past year talking to energy users, and I can 

5 tell you first-hand that all those feelings are 

6 real. We said last year that the agency's carbon 

7 rule would speed the closure of coal-fired plants 

8 in the U.S., forcing another 114 gigawatts of 

9 generation off the grid. 

10 That's exactly what's happening. Look no 

11 further than coal-fired power plants in Walker 

12 and Mobile Counties in Alabama. Look no further 

13 than coal miners laid off in Tuscaloosa County. 

14 Meanwhile, the rest of the world will use U.S. 

15 coal to produce more than six additional tons of 

16 carbon for every one ton we reduce under this 

17 rule. 

18 We said it in July and we'll say it again 

19 today -- the Earth's temperature is not going to 

20 change because of this rule. The power bills 

21 will. The EPA still has a chance to take a 

22 sensible approach to climate policy and focus on 
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1 more reasonable measures that deliver real 

2 results. We implore you to do so. 

3 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, Mr. Brown. The 

4 next speakers are Katherine Muller and Lisa 

5 Raynor. 

6 MS. MULLER: Good morning. My name is 

7 Katherine Muller, M-u-l-l-e-r, and I fought 

8 traffic through six lanes to get down here this 

9 morning from Greenville, South Carolina. I 

10 represent a small solar business called Inviro 

11 Design and Consulting. We install residential 

12 solar. We have energy- and water-efficiency 

13 monitoring systems for commercial buildings. 

14 Basically, we're out to reduce your energy use, 

15 save you money, help the environment, help your 

16 bottom line. It is all good. 

17 And guess what? I wear a lot of hats, 

18 because unlike that lady who represents a big 

19 association, I represent the backbone of America 

20 -- small business. I am social media -- I might 

21 take your picture -- I am sales and marketing, 

22 and I am HR. Our company started off the year 
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1 with about 5 people on the solar side. Solar is 

2 booming in South Carolina. I don't really need 

3 to look at any notes because I'm living this. In 

4 the last 2 weeks we have hired 4 people. We will 

5 hire another 3 to 8, and we're just a teeny-tiny 

6 little company. We would have more except for 

7 two things. We have to train people properly -- 

8 we don't want to sacrifice quality -- and working 

9 capital. Like any other business, we need money 

10 to grow. 

11 So I guess I'm just trying to say please 

12 -- you know, when I think about health of people 

13 living around the power plants, asthma -- my dad 

14 was a cardiologist and I have a preexisting 

15 health condition myself. When I think about the 

16 health of our planet and our future world and 

17 climate change, which is at crisis level. Right 

18 this very minute we're past 400 parts per 

19 million. Coal is the dirtiest, most carbon20 intensive, polluting energy source. Why in the 

21 world would we do anything to roll back progress? 

22 Why would we do that when there is another way? 
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1 And let me just tell you something. The 

2 clean energy economy, it is not coming. It is 

3 here, because our little company is experiencing 

4 this. And when you give people an alternative, a 

5 different way, people are clamoring for solar. 

6 Our company is booked into the new year. We have 

7 twice the business we can handle -- what an 

8 awesome problem. There's not enough hours in the 

9 day. My hair is white. 

10 So I guess I'm just trying to say please 

11 be stringent with these regulations. Don't roll 

12 back progress, because there's no need. It's 

13 interesting. Almost 40 years ago your former 

14 governor here in the great state of Georgia, 

15 former President, Jimmy Carter, humanitarian, 

16 visionary, put solar panels on the White House, 

17 the people's house in Washington. Now our 

18 little, teeny-tiny company is putting solar 

19 panels on our people's houses. So that is due to 

20 a change in the law last year in South Carolina 

21 which incentivized solar, made it more 

22 affordable. Duke Energy in South Carolina is 
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1 giving incentives. They're federal and state 

2 incentives. 

3 So people want clean, renewable energy. 

4 Please do not do anything that would, in any way, 

5 you know, reduce the stringency of these 

6 regulations which are looking to the future, not 

7 to a dirty, fossil fuel economy of the past. 

8 Let's look to the future. 

9 Now, in my fantasy world -- complete 

10 fantasy world -- Jimmy Carter would be here 

11 today, or somebody in his family to say, "Hey, 40 

12 years ago I put those panels on the White House. 

13 Now let's keep looking to the future. Let's go 

14 with a clean energy economy." 

15 Let me see if there's anything else I 

16 want to tell you. I guess that's about as far as 

17 I got in my notes. But really, I'm just asking 

18 you to please think about the future, because, 

19 again, the clean energy economy is here. We 

20 don't need any new breakthrough in technology. 

21 We just need the social, the political, and the 

22 regulatory will to move forward. And there will 
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1 be losers and winners in this new economy, just 

2 like we went from horse and buggy to cars, and 

3 people who made horse and buggies had to learn 

4 how to make cars. Now, going forward, people 

5 from coal-producing states are going to have to 

6 come up with another way to make a living for the 

7 benefit of everyone, because our world, we need 

8 to regulate this dirty energy. 

9 So, anyway, I think that's all I had to 

10 say, and thank you very much. 

11 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

12 MS. RAYNOR: Hi. I'm Lisa Raynor and I'm 

13 from Atlanta, Georgia, and being a native 

14 Atlantan I knew to camp out here last night so I 

15 wouldn't have to fight traffic to get down here. 

16 We feel your pain. 

17 I'm here today on behalf of Mothers and 

18 Others For Clean Air to testify in support of a 

19 strong federal plan upon which to model plans, in 

20 hopes of driving a shift to cleaner energy 

21 sources that will, in turn, reduce as much 

22 pollution as possible to protect our health. I 
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1 am not an expert on climate change but I am a 

2 mother of a child with asthma, and I've done my 

3 homework. I know that climate change can harm 

4 the health of us all through degraded air quality 

5 and that the power plant pollution is a leading 

6 cause of this problem. 

7 I'd like to briefly share my story. It 

8 begins in 2010, when my daughter Caroline and I 

9 found ourselves in intensive care unit at 

10 Children's Health Care of Atlanta for a week 

11 while she received pure oxygen in hopes of 

12 bringing her level up after she suffered a near13 fatal asthma attack. I remember feeling so 

14 powerless as I sat in the hospital room wondering 

15 if I was going to be able to take her home. 

16 It was an accumulation of many days of 

17 missed work for me and school for her, because 

18 she didn't have the lung capacity to breathe. 

19 She couldn't walk, much less run, and because of 

20 this she has spent many days at home, in bed, 

21 because Atlanta's air quality is so bad that it 

22 was dangerous for her to be outside. Even with 
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1 her multitude of prescriptions it is not enough 

2 to ensure her safety, and we still monitor the 

3 days in order to be sure that she will not end up 

4 in intensive care, needing oxygen, with her 

5 oxygen level at 73. 

6 This is why I support the Clean Power 

7 Plan to reduce carbon and other pollutants that 

8 cause asthma attacks, heart attacks, and 

9 premature deaths. After almost losing my 

10 daughter, I want to make sure we achieve the 

11 EPA's health benefits of the Clean Power Plan in 

12 order to prevent the over 3,500 premature deaths, 

13 90,000 asthma attacks, and avoiding 300,000 days 

14 missed from work and school each year. 

15 The health benefits will only come as 

16 states develop effective plans to meet the 

17 requirements set out by the EPA and the Clean 

18 Power Plan. Unfortunately, there will be some 

19 states who refuse to comply. Therefore, it is 

20 critical for the EPA to have a way to ensure 

21 emissions reductions by taking action at the 

22 federal level. It's important for you to know 
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1 that we support the EPA's efforts to help states 

2 develop and adopt effective plans that will 

3 reduce carbon emissions using the emissions 

4 standards set in the Clean Power Plan. In 

5 addition, we support the EPA's commitment to 

6 ensure that the reductions in carbon emissions 

7 are real and not just apparent. This includes 

8 providing the strongest possible tools for states 

9 to use in the model plan. 

10 I was asked to also mention the 

11 importance of alternative energy sources, the 

12 CEIP's early adoption of renewable energy, and 

13 its energy efficiency for low-income communities. 

14 But I'm going to leave these topics to those with 

15 more experience in these areas. 

16 Today I come here as a mother, and behalf 

17 of Mothers and Others For Clean Air, and on 

18 behalf of my daughter Caroline, I appreciate your 

19 time and the efforts you are taking to ensure 

20 that the air we breathe is safe for us all. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 
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1 I'll just remind you if you have a copy of your 

2 presentation you can leave it with the court 

3 reporter. 

4 MS. RAYNOR: Thank you. 

5 MS. GETTLE: The next speakers are Roger 

6 Buerki and James Rust. Mr. Buerki? 

7 MR. BUERKI: Yes. 

8 MS. GETTLE: You can begin. 

9 MR. BUERKI: That's Roger Buerki, 

10 B-u-e-r-k-i, and I'm not representing anyone 

11 except myself, or maybe former river rats. The 

12 subject today is both pollution, what's prudent, 

13 what's practical, and what's political. And I 

14 hope we all keep in mind that the bottom of all 

15 of this is the political part. 

16 It's sort of analogous to insurance, what 

17 we're doing here, and usually when you buy 

18 insurance you're looking at the worst event you 

19 can imagine, like death, and you look at the cost 

20 to ensure against that, and you have to imagine 

21 the cost if you don't. And I would volunteer 

22 that the cost, if we don't take appropriate 
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1 action, could be almost beyond imagination. 

2 Now we have set some targets for Georgia 

3 under this plan. I'm rather sad to see that the 

4 target apparently was eased a bit. I think there 

5 was a 32 percent reduction mentioned somewhere. 

6 I wish it was more. I think we can easily do 

7 more. But the solution is going to come from 

8 actions by citizens, not by government. And in 

9 that regard, citizens are going to have to rely 

10 on media, not necessarily an agency, to solve 

11 their problem, because the agencies respond to 

12 the political process. The media generates 

13 political interest. That's where action is going 

14 to come from. 

15 Agencies generally -- how to describe 

16 this? I don't necessarily want to insult the 

17 agency but generally staff has a pretty good idea 

18 of what needs to be done, and then the plan goes 

19 to their administrators, and the administrators 

20 live in the political realm, and generally the 

21 ideal plan gets watered-down to something that's 

22 possible, let's say, politically possible. 
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1 Now I started out here at age 29, in 

2 1970, discovering the Chattahoochee River and the 

3 threat posed by a proposed sewer line that would 

4 destroy the palisades on the Chattahoochee, and 

5 rather than spending too much time considering 

6 what was politically possible, I just decided we 

7 needed to solve the problem, and we did. And the 

8 end result was about $100 million in federal 

9 investment in our clean water and recreation 

10 resource on the river, and I would encourage the 

11 agency and especially the citizenry to think less 

12 about what's politically possible and more about 

13 what really needs to be done. 

14 Now I've seen many reactions to the plan 

15 from industry. The Chamber of Commerce, I would 

16 have to remind everyone, is looking out for a 

17 number. That number is number one. I suggest we 

18 need to look out for our future, and we need to 

19 hope that the media presents a balanced reaction 

20 to this. I've noticed a recent editorial in the 

21 paper that, frankly, had some statements that 

22 were quite false, and I regret that there's this 
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1 need to present balance when, in effect, one part 

2 of this balance might be just totally false. 

3 So once again I would hope that you're 

4 looking at what needs to be done, and keep in 

5 mind that it's your job, basically, to let us 

6 know what needs to be done. You're the experts, 

7 and hopefully you can get past fewer 

8 administrators and let the public know what the 

9 reality is. 

10 Thank you. 

11 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Mr. Rust. 

12 MR. RUST: My name is James Rust. It's 

13 R-u-s-t. I'm a retired engineering professor 

14 from Georgia Tech. I have over 50 years' 

15 experience in energy production and energy 

16 production and energy policy. I am a 

17 representative for the Heartland Institute, of 

18 which I am a volunteer worker. 

19 The events of the last week sort of 

20 inspired me to come up with a way of presenting 

21 this talk. On the 15th of November, France went 

22 through a terror during the bombings that took 
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1 place in Paris. If you go back in history to 

2 1898, France also had a moment of bad news then, 

3 and Emile Zola, which I recall quite well, but 

4 you people may not have heard of -- but he came 

5 out with a newspaper editorial from the front 

6 page of the largest newspaper in Paris called 

7 "J'accuse." It was accusing the government of 

8 France of railroading Alfred Dreyfus into prison 

9 for espionage when he didn't do it. He did it 

10 because he was Jewish. 

11 So I am coming up with this "J'accuse" 

12 the Environmental Protection Agency of using 

13 false scientific data to hobble our fossil fuel 

14 industry. 

15 Let's look at the history. In 2008, 

16 President Obama said the use of coal power plants 

17 will bankrupt the companies. In 2009, in March, 

18 a memo was sent to Richard Windsor, who you don't 

19 know, but that's also known as Lisa Jackson, the 

20 head of the EPA, and this is the most transparent 

21 government in history, according to President 

22 Obama. They had to fabricate a name so if 
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1 somebody subpoenaed e-mails to Lisa Jackson this 

2 would not come up. The memorandum said we're not 

3 getting ahead on climate science by telling the 

4 public about polar bears drowning, because they 

5 don't have polar bears as pets. So we're going 

6 to use asthma as a thing, that that's the 

7 policies of eliminating fossil fuel use. 

8 In 2010, President Obama had nothing 

9 accomplished as far as restricting the use of 

10 fossil fuels by legislative action, so he thought 

11 of another way to skin the cat, and the skinning 

12 the cat is being accomplished by EPA or so. In 

13 2011, the Mercury in Air Toxic Standards and 

14 Cross-State Air Pollution Rules were implemented. 

15 In 2012, Carbon Pollution Standards for Future 

16 Power Plants was admitted. In 2014, the Clean 

17 Power Plan we are talking about today was first 

18 put forth. It was then amended last summer to 

19 change the rule from 30 percent reduction in CO2 

20 to 32 percent. 

21 EPA Administrator McCarthy said that the 

22 Clean Power Plan will avoid 100,000 asthma 
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1 attacks and 2,100 heart attacks annually. Now 

2 what's look at what we know, then. U.S. 

3 population from 1980 to 2014 increased 41 

4 percent. Air quality -- and this is the EPA's 

5 data -- air quality from a handful of pollutants 

6 dropped 63 percent during that period. The 

7 incidence of child asthma increased 131 percent. 

8 So while our air is getting cleaner, asthma is 

9 going up. Now what kind of sense does this make? 

10 We have a lot of data about asthma. Eighty 

11 percent of people having asthma also have 

12 allergies -- dust mites, roaches, all kinds of 

13 things like this. 

14 For the United States, 10.9 percent of 

15 adults allegedly have asthma. In China, 2.1 

16 percent have asthma. In Russia, 2.2 percent. 

17 These are countries where the air is vastly 

18 inferior to what we have here in the U.S. and 

19 their asthma rates are way lower than ours. 

20 Global temperatures have not risen since 

21 1998, based on satellite data, and yet global 

22 warming is being accused of causing all these 
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1 problems that we have. NOAA and NASA have 

2 fabricated, fudged data to say that this lack of 

3 rise of temperature from satellite data did not 

4 occur, that we have a rise. Congress is 

5 investigating NOAA and asking them for their data 

6 and their communications, and this organization 

7 has denied. They say they're not going to 

8 cooperate, while Congress -- you pay these 

9 people's salaries. 

10 Let's look at the economic consequences 

11 of implementing the Clean Power Plan. The Black 

12 Chamber of Commerce says the plan will increase 

13 utility rates on average of $1,000 to $1,200 per 

14 year by 2030. They think minority poverty rates 

15 will be up 26 percent by 2030. The National 

16 Economic Research Associates believes household 

17 costs will be up $530 to $660 per year. This you 

18 don't care about but the mineworkers also did a 

19 study on this and came up with -- 

20 MS. GETTLE: Mr. Rust, your time has 

21 expired. If you could wrap it up please. 

22 MR. RUST: Okay. 
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1 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any questions? 

2 [No audible response.] 

3 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Thank you both. 

4 I want to remind you that you can submit your 

5 comments to the court reporter. 

6 The next speakers are Dr. Anne Mellinger7 Birdsong and Hilary Merlin. 

8 DR. MELLINGER-BIRDSONG: Hi. My name is 

9 Anne Mellinger-Birdsong, M-e-l-l-i-n-g-e-r, dash, 

10 B-i-r-d-s-o-n-g. I'm a pediatrician and 

11 epidemiologist and a parent and I'm on the 

12 leadership board of Mothers and Others for Clean 

13 Air. I and my family live here in Atlanta. I'm 

14 here today to testify in support of strong 

15 federal plans that will help drive a shift to 

16 cleaner energy sources, address climate change, 

17 and reduce air pollution as much as possible to 

18 protect public health, and especially the health 

19 of children. 

20 I support the Clean Power Plan to reduce 

21 carbon and other air pollutants that cause asthma 

22 attacks, heart attacks, and premature death. I 
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1 want to make sure we achieve the EPA's estimated 

2 health benefits of the Clean Power Plan, which 

3 include preventing up to 3,600 premature deaths, 

4 90,000 asthma attacks, and avoiding 300,000 days 

5 missed from work and school each year. 

6 The American Academy of Pediatrics has 

7 stated "the Clean Power Plan is a welcome and 

8 needed step to help make the air we breathe safer 

9 and cleaner for children and for the 

10 environment." As a public health professional, I 

11 know that climate change can harm the health of 

12 adults and children because it will cause more 

13 air pollution, more wildfires, more drought, and 

14 extreme weather events. I also know that these 

15 impacts worsen the burden that many in Georgia 

16 already suffer. 

17 The American Academy of Pediatrics also 

18 noted that "according to the World Health 

19 Organization, more than 80 percent of the current 

20 health burden due to the changing climate occurs 

21 in children younger than 5 years old." Children 

22 suffer from allergic and asthmatic diseases, the 
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1 devastating effect of natural disasters, food and 

2 water insecurity, and increased heat-related 

3 deaths. Children also breathe faster than 

4 adults, spend more time outside, and have lungs 

5 that are still developing, making them 

6 increasingly vulnerable to the environmental 

7 effects of global climate change. 

8 These health benefits will happen only if 

9 states develop effective plans to meet the 

10 requirements set out by EPA in the Clean Power 

11 Plan. It is critical that EPA have a way to 

12 ensure emissions reductions by taking action at 

13 the federal level for states that refuse to 

14 comply. Analyses by EPA, Harvard, and others 

15 show that reducing carbon emissions will also 

16 reduce other air pollution coming from power 

17 plants. This will especially benefit children 

18 whose lungs are still growing and whose lung 

19 development can be damaged by air pollution, and 

20 it will particularly help children with asthma 

21 and other respiratory diseases. 

22 The Clean Power Plan will also benefit 
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1 people who live in low-income communities who 

2 have disproportionately suffered the burdens of 

3 pollution from coal-fired power plants. People 

4 who live near these plants have breathed more 

5 concentrated pollution, including toxins such as 

6 arsenic, lead, and mercury, and carcinogens like 

7 benzene. Low-income communities will also suffer 

8 more from climate change. Research documents 

9 that air pollution harms poorer people more than 

10 those with higher incomes, in part because people 

11 who are poor are more likely to have diseases 

12 like asthma that increase risk from air 

13 pollution. 

14 In summary, the Clean Power Plan is a 

15 really brilliant public policy that will benefit 

16 public health, especially for children and people 

17 who live in low-income communities. It is 

18 crucial that EPA have the tools and resources it 

19 needs to ensure that it is implemented well. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 

22 [No audible response.] 
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1 MS. GETTLE: All right. Ms. Merlin. 

2 MS. MERLIN: Hi. I'm Hilary Merlin, 

3 H-i-l-a-r-y M-e-r-l-i-n. My name is Hilary 

4 Merline and I'm from Decatur, Georgia. I'm a 

5 public health professional, and the Georgia field 

6 organizer for Mothers and Others for Clean Air, 

7 and I'm also the mother of two young children, 

8 and I'm also here today to testify in support of 

9 strong federal and model Clean Power Plan rules 

10 that will help drive a shift to cleaner energy 

11 sources, reduce air pollution, and mitigate 

12 climate change. 

13 Because both my 7-year-old daughter and 

14 my 70-year-old mother have asthma, this issue is 

15 personal to me. When I read that the estimated 

16 health benefits of the Clean Power Plan include 

17 90,000 fewer asthma exacerbations and 300,000 

18 fewer missed days of work and school each year, I 

19 think of my daughter who has spent many nights 

20 awake, coughing instead of sleeping. 

21 I think of the mornings that we've had to 

22 decide between keeping her home or sending her to 
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1 school without a good night's sleep. And I think 

2 of how different our lives would be if the air 

3 were always healthy for my children, for all 

4 children to breathe. 

5 I believe that the Clean Power Plan is a 

6 critical part of solving the interwoven public 

7 health problems of air pollution and climate 

8 change. I believe that the quality of my 

9 children's lives is dependent on the transition 

10 from fossil fuels to renewable sources of energy. 

11 I am hopeful that Georgia will do its 

12 part and develop an effective state plan, with 

13 the guidance of a strong model plan, but I'm also 

14 concerned that some of our state's leaders won't 

15 put our children's health first. If that should 

16 be the case, the Federal Implementation Plan 

17 becomes extremely relevant to me and my family. 

18 It's critical that both plans maximize 

19 the potential of renewable energy, specifically 

20 solar and wind. The Clean Energy Incentive 

21 Program should be a standard rather than option, 

22 element in the final model plan. It's critical 
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1 that both plans have measure to ensure that 

2 reductions in carbon emissions are real and not 

3 due to leakage. It's critical that the plans 

4 avoid encouraging the sue of biomass and nuclear 

5 energy sources, as they both pose threats to 

6 human health. 

7 The Clean Power Plan holds great 

8 potential to meaningfully protect public health. 

9 I urge the EPA to communicate to states, through 

10 both the Federal Implementation Plan and the 

11 model rule, the best practices for reducing 

12 carbon emissions in order to maximize the health 

13 benefits. 

14 When it comes to the air we breathe and 

15 the climate we live in, the stakes are too high 

16 to do anything other than our best. So on behalf 

17 of my mother and my daughter, and all the other 

18 children and older adults who really need clean 

19 air and clean power, thank you. 

20 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any follow-up? 

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MS. GETTLE: Thank you both, and I'll 
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1 remind you that if you want to leave a copy. Our 

2 next speakers are Gerald Durley and Daniel 

3 Blackman. 

4 DR. DURLEY: Good morning. My name and 

5 title is Reverend Doctor Gerald Durley, Pastor 

6 Emeritus of Providence Missionary Baptist Church 

7 in the city of Atlanta, Georgia. I'm also a 

8 national board member of Interfaith Power and 

9 Light and a 2015 White House recipient of the 

10 Champion of Change Award, challenging the efforts 

11 of climate change. I'm grateful for the 

12 opportunity afforded me to share my thoughts, 

13 feelings, and concerns in support of the Clean 

14 Power Plan. 

15 I have been fighting for the civil and 

16 human rights for all Americans for 55 years, and 

17 I'm thoroughly convinced that climate change and 

18 global warming are the civil, human, and moral 

19 issues of our time. Climate change is an equal 

20 opportunity destroyer, regardless of race, creed, 

21 color, nationality. Climate change and global 

22 warming are real in the specific communities 
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1 which I serve, which are experiencing and feeding 

2 the devastating disproportionate and negative 

3 impact more than affluent communities. Rising 

4 temperatures and the increased levels of carbon 

5 in the environment have caused asthmatic rates to 

6 soar among our children, while the elderly are 

7 suffering from deadly heat waves. 

8 It is regrettable that climate and 

9 weather disasters have cost the American economy 

10 more than $100 billion. Science has concluded 

11 that the high levels of carbon emitted into the 

12 environment is caused by various sources. 

13 However, the largest polluters are power plants, 

14 which account for roughly one-third of all 

15 domestic greenhouse gas emissions. The world and 

16 America are at a critical tipping, no-return 

17 point, to prevent the destruction of human, 

18 animal, and plant life caused by climate 

19 upheavals. The Clean Power Plan is by far the 

20 most comprehensive and visible and viable option 

21 proposed to cut carbon pollution by 25 percent in 

22 2030. 
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1 I'm strongly encouraged that the Clean 

2 Power Plan must review closely other health and 

3 environmental conditions around nuclear plants in 

4 low-income and minority communities, even though 

5 their carbon emission levels are minimal when 

6 online. I understand that those opposed to the 

7 Clean Power Plan are concerned about the return 

8 on their investment. I'm not opposed to anybody 

9 making a dollar or two. I realize that's the way 

10 the American way is, but not at the expense of 

11 human life and environmental instability. 

12 The Clean Power Plan, when implemented, 

13 will produce climate and health benefits 

14 estimated between $55 billion and $93 billion in 

15 2013 [sic], and avoiding close to 6,000 premature 

16 deaths, and 140,000 to 150,000 asthmatic attacks 

17 among children. The Clean Power Plan will not 

18 create economic burdens or financial hardships on 

19 low-income or minority communities as some of our 

20 opponents have articulated. Our health -- black 

21 folks' health, minority, low-income folks' health 

22 -- is more important than the cost of what it 
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1 would take to curb carbon emissions. 

2 The world is currently under attack by 

3 terrorists. Can America afford to be quietly 

4 guilty of being called terrorists against the 

5 environment, by denying that climate change and 

6 global warming are not killing us at an alarming 

7 rate? Our inactions by not speaking up and out 

8 are terroristic threats for a healthy 

9 environment. 

10 The interfaith community today joins 

11 forces with scientists, educators, business 

12 persons, and politicians to support and endorse 

13 the Clean Power Plan. The 190 nations at the 

14 COP21 conference needs to witness the United 

15 States of America united and taking a bold stance 

16 for life by supporting the Clean Power Plan. 

17 Why am I here? I believe that all life 

18 matters. Thank you. 

19 MS. GETTLE: Thank you, sir. Any follow20 up? 

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MS. GETTLE: Okay. Mr. Blackman. 
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1 MR. BLACKMAN: Do I have to follow 

2 Reverend Durley? And I'm probably standing 

3 between lunch for some people. I'll try and keep 

4 my comments as brief as possible. 

5 I want to first thank you all for being 

6 here. The last time I had a chance to testify -- 

7 and it's Daniel Blackman; Blackman is 

8 B-l-a-c-k-m-a-n -- and the last time that I had a 

9 chance to testify was the Democratic nominee for 

10 the Public Service Commission of the state of 

11 Georgia. But I am a business owner in Georgia. 

12 I own a company that's a human rights and civil 

13 rights organization that focuses specifically on 

14 global issues such as human trafficking and 

15 climate change, and it's a pleasure to be here 

16 today, to be able to speak to you. 

17 One of the privilege I had running for 

18 the Public Service Commission was the fact that 

19 Georgia uniquely has 159 counties, so I was able 

20 to at least campaign and/or travel in about 90 of 

21 those counties and to really travel throughout 

22 the state gave me more of a perspective, though I 
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1 already was in support of the plan. It gave me 

2 more of a perspective in how it affects our rural 

3 communities. Today I'll talk specifically about 

4 that. We've heard a lot of numbers, we've heard 

5 arguments on both sides, and I'll limit by 

6 comments kind of to follow up off of what 

7 Reverend Durley said, but from the moral or 

8 personal perspective on how it impacts 

9 communities, especially low-income and 

10 communities of color. 

11 We recently had one of our Public Service 

12 commissioners make a comment that I found 

13 disheartening, which was the President made a 

14 statement in regards to the Clean Power Plan that 

15 says that taking a stand against climate change 

16 is a moral obligation, and I whole-heartedly 

17 agree. The commissioner, which I won't name, but 

18 the commissioner said that he thought it was 

19 laughable that the President would say that moral 

20 obligation to Clean Power Plan had anything to 

21 do. And I had to go to Rome, Italy, this past 

22 year, to attend a climate march and hear the 
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1 Pope's remarks on climate. And to be with over 

2 65 other nations and to really see the impact, 

3 globally, of what it had, made me take more of a 

4 perspective and have more ownership right here in 

5 my state of Georgia. 

6 So what I want to talk about today, and 

7 I'll try and sum this up in 2 minutes, is first 

8 and foremost applauding the EPA for the step 

9 forward in integrating environmental justice and 

10 rulemaking by opening the door to community 

11 through participation throughout the process. 

12 There are almost 2 million people in the state of 

13 Georgia that are living at or below the poverty 

14 line, so for those men and women that live in 

15 rural areas throughout the state, that are not 

16 given the opportunity because of their 

17 obligations to work or to their family to be here 

18 and to speak on their behalf, is very important 

19 to me that their concerns and their ability, 

20 through this plan, to have an opportunity to work 

21 and for new industries to be created, that's very 

22 important for me. 
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1 And I want to also say that environmental 

2 justice is grounded on the core principle that 

3 all people, regardless of ethnic background and 

4 class, deserve to live and work in environments 

5 free of toxic contamination. But unfortunately, 

6 many working class communities of color continue 

7 to be sickened and denied by the right to 

8 environmental justice, due to failed policies. I 

9 believe a young lady just came up and said that 

10 we're decades overdue with creating a new plan, 

11 and I agree with what she's saying, but also the 

12 inability of local, regional, and national 

13 leaders to stand up for our health and the well14 being of future generations, as the country moves 

15 forward on reducing coal emissions. 

16 This is important to me because my 

17 grandfather was a diplomat to the United Nations 

18 around the time that they gave their definition 

19 of sustainable development, which was the ability 

20 to meet the needs of the present without 

21 compromising future generations to meet their own 

22 needs. And for me it's very important that the 
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1 decisions we make today have a profound impact on 

2 generations to come. 

3 In closing, I want to re-emphasize that 

4 the Clean Power Plan is an important step in 

5 reducing carbon emissions and avoiding the worst 

6 impacts of climate change. I believe this plan 

7 is in the best interest of my state and it can 

8 secure, quality, family-sustained jobs, it can 

9 provide opportunities for disproportionately 

10 affected communities, and encourage investments 

11 and economic growth. 

12 We already heard about the 20,000 jobs 

13 created so I won't go back over those numbers. 

14 But Georgia is well in position to take the lead 

15 on many of these efforts, and with my support 

16 today I'll end my comments there because I want 

17 to respectful of time and the other speakers. 

18 But I strongly am in support and would hope that 

19 we take into consideration those who are not able 

20 to come before you today and speak. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MR. DURSEY: That's called passing the 
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1 torch. My former student. I like it. 

2 MS. GETTLE: Do you have any follow-up? 

3 [No audible response.] 

4 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. We 

5 have two more speakers before we break, Ann Blair 

6 and Patrick Cagle. 

7 [Pause.] 

8 MS. GETTLE: Is Ann Blair in the room? 

9 ATTENDEE: [Inaudible comment.] 

10 MS. GETTLE: Okay. Thank you. Mr. 

11 Cagle. 

12 MR. CAGLE: Thank you. My name is 

13 Patrick Cagle. The last name is C-a-g-l-e. I'm 

14 Executive Director of a group called JobKeeper 

15 Alliance, which is a nonprofit partnership 

16 created between the business and labor community. 

17 Our mission is to create and protect quality jobs 

18 throughout the Southeast. These are high-paying, 

19 middle-class jobs. A lot of them are in the coal 

20 industry and the energy industry. These are jobs 

21 that can't easily be replaced. 

22 Today's hearing is intended to gather 
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1 public input on the proposed federal plan for 

2 compliance with the Clean Power Plan. When 

3 discussing this federal plan, it's important to 

4 keep in mind what it is and how it will be used. 

5 States that choose not to adopt a state 

6 implementation plan will be forced to follow this 

7 federal plan. 

8 The majority of elected officials and 

9 regulators in the states that my organization 

10 works in are strongly opposed to EPA's costly and 

11 job-killing carbon regulations. These are the 

12 states that are most likely not to develop a 

13 state implementation plan and as a result will be 

14 required to comply with this federal plan. 

15 Elected officials in states that do not 

16 embrace the Clean Power Plan are sure to be 

17 chastised by environmental groups like Sierra 

18 Club, the Southern Environmental Law Center, and 

19 the Southern Alliance For Clean Energy, and their 

20 vast network of regional and local partners, many 

21 of whom are present at today's hearing. Unknown 

22 to the citizens that these groups seek to 
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1 influence, these environmental groups are part of 

2 a highly organized network that receives millions 

3 of dollars annually from the San Francisco-based 

4 Energy Foundation, to help advance their energy 

5 agenda. 

6 By giving grants to hundreds of 

7 environmental groups across the country that work 

8 on the same issue and use the same talking 

9 points, the Energy Foundation has created an echo 

10 chamber that magnifies their message. In fact, 

11 the majority of the groups scheduled to testify 

12 at today's hearing received funding from the 

13 Energy Foundation, and as we've heard over and 

14 over, many seem to be speaking -- using the same 

15 talking points, basically speaking from the same 

16 script. 

17 In spite of the talking points you may 

18 hear, elected officials and state regulators who 

19 oppose the Clean Power Plan are not fighting 

20 against clean air or carrying the water for 

21 corporate interests. They're supporting the 

22 well-being of their constituents. They're 
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1 standing up for the men and women whose jobs are 

2 in jeopardy and the families that can't afford to 

3 pay higher utility bills. Rather than focusing 

4 solely on the details of the federal plan, EPA 

5 needs to address the unanswered concerns voiced 

6 by the states that are not embracing the 

7 regulation of carbon. 

8 EPA can start by addressing the following 

9 questions and concerns. First is, what is the 

10 true cost of regulating carbon, when you add up 

11 the high-paying jobs that will be lost as a 

12 result of jobs lost in the coal industry and 

13 shuttered power plants, as well as the 

14 manufacturing jobs that will be lost and 

15 outsourced as a result of higher energy costs. 

16 The gain in renewable energy jobs created by the 

17 Clean Power Plan cannot come close to offsetting 

18 the substantial job losses it will cost. The 

19 costs must fully be considered before the cost 

20 and benefits can accurately be measured against 

21 each other. 

22 The next question that needs to be 
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1 answered is, how can EPA reasonably claim that 

2 the average family's power bill will actually be 

3 7 percent lower by 2030 when numerous studies 

4 predict double-digit increases in residential 

5 electricity cost as a result of the Clean Power 

6 Plan? While energy efficiency programs are a 

7 useful tool to allow customers to control their 

8 own energy usage, it's not a magic solution, it's 

9 not free, and no cost-effective program can ever 

10 provide energy efficiency upgrades for all 

11 households. 

12 EPA needs to acknowledge the reality that 

13 no energy efficiency program will reach every 

14 household, and therefore should provide a range 

15 of different realistic scenarios based on 

16 different housing situations and income levels. 

17 EPA knows that the majority of middle-income 

18 households will not benefit from most energy 

19 efficiency programs and will see their energy 

20 bills go up, not down, as a result of the Clean 

21 Power Plan. 

22 Finally, EPA needs to accurately address 
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1 the concerns of states that are worried about the 

2 future reliability of the power grid in their 

3 state. Many states will face reliability issues 

4 and EPA should not ignore this fact. 

5 EPA's proposed federal plan is not a 

6 solution to the underlying problem but rather a 

7 way to mask it. No state will be subjected to 

8 the federal plan by choice but rather as a result 

9 of lack of choice. States don't have flexibility 

10 when there are no reasonable options on the 

11 table. Many states see their only option to 

12 avoiding harming their citizens is to do nothing 

13 and hope for a legal victory. If EPA wants to 

14 convince skeptical state leaders to develop their 

15 own implementation plan, they can start by 

16 responding to their concerns and answering their 

17 questions, and then offering then reasonable 

18 options to comply with the Clean Power Plan. 

19 Thank you. 

20 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Is there any 

21 follow-up? 

22 [No audible response.] 
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1 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. 

2 At this time we will take a short break 

3 in the hearing for lunch and we will start back 

4 at 1:15 in this room. Thank you all very much. 

5 [Lunch break taken from 12:25 to 1:36 

6 p.m.] 

7 Afternoon Session 

8 MS. KEMPER: Good afternoon. My name is 

9 Carol Kemper and I'm Deputy Director here at EPA 

10 Region 4 for the Air, Pesticides, and Toxics 

11 Management Division, and I am the chair of 

12 today's public hearing, this afternoon's session. 

13 Thank you all for coming. 

14 Joining me on the panel today are Colin 

15 Boswell -- he is with our Energy Strategies out 

16 of our Office of Air Quality Planning and 

17 Standards, one of our headquarters offices -- and 

18 Dr. Ken Mitchell, who is our Region 4 Clean Power 

19 Plan team lead. We're also joined by Ashleigh 

20 Simmons, our court reporter, who will be taking 

21 down all of the public comments today. 

22 Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 
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1 largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 

2 or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 

3 the U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. 

4 Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 

5 essential step in lessening the impacts of 

6 climate change and providing a more certain 

7 future for our environment, our health, and 

8 future generations. 

9 We are here today to listen to your 

10 comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 

11 model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 

12 Existing Power Plants. 

13 On October 23, 2015, the Environmental 

14 Protection Agency published, in the Federal 

15 Register, its proposed federal plan to implement 

16 emission guidelines for power plants under 

17 Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 

18 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 

19 effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 

20 affected power plants that began construction on 

21 or before January 8, 2014. 

22 The federal plan and model trading rules 
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1 demonstrate a readily available path forward for 

2 Clean Power Plan implementation, and presents 

3 flexible, affordable implementation options for 

4 states. The model rules provide a cost-effective 

5 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

6 the EPA and make it easy for states and power 

7 plants to use emissions trading. It does the 

8 heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 

9 model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 

10 implement the federal plan in any state that does 

11 not submit an approvable plan. 

12 This proposal includes four discrete 

13 proposed actions: (1) a rate-based federal plan 

14 for each state with affected EGUs, or electric 

15 generating units; (2) a mass-based federal plan 

16 for each state with affected EGUs; (3) a rate17 based model trading rule for potential use by any 

18 state; and (4) a mass-based model trading rule 

19 for potential use by any state. 

20 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

21 the same levels of emissions performance as 

22 required of state plans under the Clean Power 
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1 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

2 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

3 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

4 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

5 in the emission guidelines. 

6 In those states where a federal plan may 

7 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

8 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

9 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 

10 would not require additional control requirements 

11 or impose additional costs. Even where a federal 

12 plan is put in place for a particular state, that 

13 state will still be able to submit a plan which, 

14 if approved, will allow the state and its sources 

15 to exit the federal plan. 

16 States may take delegation of 

17 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

18 order to become the primary implementers, or 

19 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

20 the implementation of a portion of the federal 

21 plan. States operating under a federal plan may 

22 adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 
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1 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 

2 benefit of power generators and consumers. 

3 The proposal also includes a model rule 

4 for those states that are developing their own 

5 state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 

6 the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 

7 in the summer of 2016. A state program that 

8 adheres to the model trading rule provisions 

9 specified in this rulemaking, when final, would 

10 be presumptively approvable. 

11 There are stand-alone portions of the 

12 model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 

13 measurement, and verification procedures for 

14 emission rate credits, or ERCs, that would be 

15 approvable even if a state adopted an approach 

16 that differs in other respects from the model 

17 rule. 

18 In addition, the proposal contains a 

19 finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 

20 implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 

21 affected EGUs located in Indian country. CO2 

22 emission performance rates for these facilities 
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1 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. Also in 

2 the proposal is information on how the EPA will 

3 reach out to communities throughout the comment 

4 period and an overview of the actions that EPA is 

5 taking to ensure that vulnerable communities are 

6 not being disproportionately impacted by this 

7 rulemaking. 

8 If you would like more details on the 

9 proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 

10 the registration desk, just outside this room. 

11 Before we get started, I'd like to go 

12 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

13 that will help to make today's hearing run 

14 smoothly. First, please be sure you've checked 

15 in at the registration desk, even if you are not 

16 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

17 speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 

18 you are here, please step out to the registration 

19 desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 

20 arrived. 

21 I will call speakers up in pairs. When 

22 your name is called, please come to the speakers' 
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1 table at the front of the room. When I call on 

2 you to speak, please state your name, and spell 

3 both your first name and your last name for the 

4 court reporter. Your comments will be 

5 transcribed and included in the record of 

6 comments on the proposed rule. 

7 Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 

8 comments. We have a timer light to help you know 

9 how much time you have left to speak. When the 

10 light turns from green to yellow, that means you 

11 have 1 minute remaining. When it turns red, 

12 that's a signal that your 5 minutes are up, and 

13 it is time to stop. When you are finished 

14 speaking, please remain at the table until the 

15 person next to you has also completed his or her 

16 testimony. 

17 We are here to listen to you today. 

18 However, a panel member may ask questions to 

19 clarify your comments. 

20 I will then call up the next pair of 

21 speakers, and so on, until we've completed this 

22 time period. If you've brought a copy of your 
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1 written testimony, please give that to the court 

2 reporter or the staff at the registration desk 

3 before you leave today. We will put any written 

4 comments submitted today in the official docket 

5 for the proposed rule. 

6 We also have comment cards available at 

7 the registration desk. If you would like to 

8 submit additional written comments today, please 

9 see the folks at the registration desk. If you 

10 want to comment in writing later, stop by the 

11 materials table near the registration desk and 

12 pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 

13 written comments. Comments must be received by 

14 January 21, 2016. 

15 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 

16 much consideration to comments we receive in 

17 writing as we do to comments we receive at public 

18 hearings like this one. So if you have more 

19 comments that you would like to provided the EPA, 

20 please submit them by the comment period 

21 deadline. All comments will be reviewed. 

22 If you have any questions during the day, 
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1 please see the staff at the registration desk, 

2 and someone will assist you. 

3 Thank you again for taking the time today 

4 to share your comments on EPA's proposal. Let's 

5 get started. 

6 Our first two speakers are Dr. Roby 

7 Greenwald and Laura Seydel. 

8 DR. GREENWALD: Thank you. My name is 

9 Roby Greenwald. That's R-o-b-y 

10 G-r-e-e-n-w-a-l-d. I am an assistant professor 

11 at the School of Public Health at Georgia State 

12 University here in Atlanta, and I'd like to thank 

13 you for having me here to make these brief 

14 comments. 

15 I would start by explaining why I think 

16 that the issue of climate change is such an 

17 important issue for us to address in any ways 

18 that we possibly can, and I will say this from 

19 the perspective of someone who has spent a career 

20 studying, either directly or indirectly, issues 

21 related to climate change. 

22 There are a number of reasons why I 
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1 think, and in my opinion, that there's a very 

2 high probability that issues related to climate 

3 change are going to be the number one public 

4 health issue of the 21st century. This is 

5 related to changes in not just the temperature 

6 but changes in sea level worldwide, as well as 

7 changes in things related to food security. 

8 Changes related to temperature, of 

9 course, result in heat stress and current model 

10 predictions suggest that changes in heat stress 

11 by mid-century will increase the number of 

12 mortalities and the amount of morbidity related 

13 to heat stress worldwide, including specifically 

14 in places in the tropics, but as well as areas 

15 such as the Southeast United States, where we 

16 happen to live. That directly concerns me for 

17 the sake of my children, who will be reaching 

18 adulthood and reaching their senior years about 

19 the time that the maximum amounts of changes in 

20 temperature will be occurring. 

21 In addition, these changes in temperature 

22 will affect food security and that will result in 
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1 additional hardship to millions of people 

2 worldwide, and this is going to result in a great 

3 deal of unpredictable events that we just have no 

4 way of even speculating about now. The changes 

5 in human behavior related to things like changes 

6 in their ability to sustain life are, by their 

7 very nature, difficult to predict but they will 

8 almost certainly be negative. 

9 In addition, there will be changes in the 

10 amount of inhabitable land around the world, due 

11 to changes in sea level, and this is going to 

12 result, almost certainly, in mass migrations, and 

13 as the events of the last couple of weeks have 

14 shown us, this is very, very difficult to predict 

15 exactly how mass migrations will play out in real 

16 time, and this is, again, almost certain to be a 

17 very negative event for future human populations. 

18 For this reason I believe it is very, 

19 very important for us to address, in every 

20 possible way, any steps we can take to reduce the 

21 maximum amount of temperature change that will 

22 occur in the future decades and centuries. 
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1 I want to make a couple of comments 

2 specifically about the proposed rule, since that 

3 is what this hearing is actually about. My first 

4 comment would be I applaud the EPA for taking 

5 whatever steps they have available to them now 

6 under existing legislation, and the Executive 

7 Branch has limited authority to actually 

8 implement changes right now but under the 

9 existing Clean Air Act you're making the maximum 

10 amount of effort that you actually can to reduce 

11 carbon emissions that will directly lead to 

12 changes in the temperature. 

13 At the same time, however, I recognize 

14 the fact that to truly address this issue we need 

15 to take additional steps that would require 

16 additional legislation to give authority to not 

17 just the EPA but to the Executive Branch in 

18 general, to implement changes to reduce emissions 

19 for us as a nation. I believe it's very 

20 important that the United States be very 

21 proactive about this, as the world's largest 

22 economy, and one of the steps that we take will 
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1 be reflected by changes that other countries will 

2 make, and this will lead to a global effort to 

3 actually reduce emissions that will have a 

4 maximum reduction in the amount of temperature 

5 that will take place. 

6 I specifically applaud EPA's plan that we 

7 have here to address the issue of some states 

8 being more reluctant than others to comply with 

9 this plan. I will keep my comments brief to that 

10 point and say that I fully support this plan and 

11 I hope we have additional action in the future to 

12 reduce carbon emissions for the United States. 

13 Thank you. 

14 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. One thing that I 

15 would encourage. I believe you referenced some 

16 studies, and to the extent that you can submit to 

17 us links or references to those studies in print 

18 and comments would be helpful. 

19 DR. GREENWALD: Absolutely. No problem. 

20 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Any questions? 

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MS. SEYDEL: Hi. I'm Laura Seydel. 
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1 That's L-a-u-r-a S-e-y-d-e-l, and on behalf of 

2 Mothers and Others For Clean Air, an official 

3 program of the American Lung Association of the 

4 Southeast, I'm delighted to be here today to 

5 comment on the Clean Power Plan. 

6 We support strong federal and model plans 

7 that will protect public health by reducing 

8 carbon pollution from power plants. I co-founded 

9 Mothers and Others For Clean Air over 10 years 

10 ago. Our mission is to advocate for policies 

11 that protect children from breathing contaminated 

12 air. We are especially concerned about carbon 

13 pollution and the threats that it poses to 

14 children's well-being, threats such as extreme 

15 weather events, increased ground-level ozone, 

16 spread of infections diseases, and food and water 

17 insecurity. 

18 The American Academy of Pediatrics just 

19 issued a new policy statement on climate change, 

20 asserting that children are particularly 

21 vulnerable to the effects of climate change and 

22 that "failure to take prompt, substantive action 
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1 would be an act of injustice to all children." 

2 We support EPA's effort to help states 

3 develop and adopt effective plans to reduce their 

4 carbon emissions and strongly support the 

5 inclusion of the Clean Energy Incentive Program, 

6 and this should be a standard element in the 

7 final model plan. The early adoption of energy 

8 efficiency and renewable energy should be the 

9 gold standard for states. All states should be 

10 encouraged to start investing now in the clean 

11 renewable energy sources of wind and solar. Both 

12 wind and solar are fully capable of adding great 

13 capacity to our energy supply without adding 

14 additional pollution to the air that we breathe. 

15 Low-income communities have been 

16 disproportionately impacted by pollution from 

17 coal-fired power plants. Also, low-income 

18 households spend a much larger percentage of 

19 their household income on energy compared to 

20 moderate- and higher-income households. We 

21 strongly support the Clean Energy Incentive 

22 Program's focus on energy efficiency improvements 
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1 in low-income communities. 

2 We also want to express opposition to the 

3 burning of biomass or waste to produce 

4 electricity, and I do not believe they have a 

5 place in the model rule. Burning biomass 

6 releases harmful pollutants such as particulate 

7 matter and air toxins. We appreciate the Federal 

8 Implementation Plan would not allow these fuel 

9 options and we encourage EPA to strengthen the 

10 model rule to eliminate them as well. 

11 On behalf of Mothers and Others For Clean 

12 Air, I urge EPA to communicate to states, through 

13 both the Federal Implementation Plan and the 

14 model rule, that they should rely on the cleanest 

15 alternative energy sources available to fulfill 

16 the mission of the Clean Power Plan. 

17 Thank you. 

18 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Questions from 

19 the panel? 

20 [No audible response.] 

21 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

22 We will pause for a moment until we have 
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1 additional names. 

2 [Pause.] 

3 MS. KEMPER: I'd like to see if some of 

4 our registered speakers have arrived. Taylor 

5 Prince and Amy Kelly? 

6 We have two more speakers, Harper Dodson 

7 and Katy Cywilko. If you'll please come and 

8 state both your first name and your last name 

9 before you speak, and spell those for the court 

10 reporter. Thank you. 

11 MS. CYWILKO: My name is Katy, K-a-t-y, 

12 C-y-w-i-l-k-o. 

13 MS. DODSON: My name is Harper, 

14 H-a-r-p-e-r D-o-d-s-o-n. 

15 MS. KEMPER: And you may proceed. We 

16 have lights here. Green means that your time is 

17 started and you have 5 minutes. 

18 MS. CYWILKO: My name is Katy and I go to 

19 Arbor Montessori School. I know I'm just a kid 

20 but even I understand that we can't continue 

21 hurting the environment. The Earth is our home. 

22 Imagine the homes you live in. If you had a hole 
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1 in your roof, would you just sit down and wait 

2 for someone else to fix it or would you get up 

3 and do anything you can to fix it yourself? I 

4 believe that pollution is hurting our Earth. I'm 

5 here to tell you that this is very important to 

6 kids like me and ask you to please do whatever 

7 you can do to fix this. 

8 Thank you. 

9 MS. DODSON: My name is Harper and I also 

10 go to Arbor Montessori School. I know pollution 

11 is bad for the environment and I would like us to 

12 have less in the future. I'm a kid but I'm in 

13 this too. I think teamwork will help all of see 

14 a cleaner Earth. I'm asking you to help us do 

15 what you can. 

16 Thank you. 

17 MS. KEMPER: I have a couple of questions 

18 for you. What grade are you in? 

19 MS. DODSON: We are in third grade. 

20 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Do you all have 

21 questions? 

22 MR. BOSWELL: Thank you for coming today. 
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1 We appreciate it. 

2 MS. KEMPER: We really do. Thanks for 

3 taking your time. And if you have written 

4 comments we would like to submit them as a part 

5 of the docket. If you'll hand them to the court 

6 reporter that would be excellent. 

7 We're going to take another short pause. 

8 If anybody would like to speak, just see the 

9 folks at the registration desk, and if you're 

10 registered for a later time slot today and would 

11 like to speak sooner, then let us know. If 

12 you'll let Jason -- Jason, if you'll raise your 

13 hand -- if you'll let Jason know then we'll work 

14 something out. 

15 [Pause.] 

16 MS. KEMPER: We have a speaker ready to 

17 speaker. I am calling Woody Bartlett to the 

18 panel. 

19 If you'll spell your name, both first and 

20 last, for the court reporter and then begin. 

21 MR. BARTLETT: I'm Woody Bartlett, 

22 W-o-o-d-y, Bartlett, B-a-r-t-l-e-t-t. I'm a 
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1 retired Episcopal clergyman and the co-founder, 

2 with my wife Carol, of Georgia Interfaith Power 

3 and Light. We are an interfaith group that cares 

4 about the planet we live on. We care not only 

5 because we want to leave a livable plant for our 

6 children and grandchildren, we care because our 

7 faith pointedly asks us to care. All major 

8 faiths, maybe even all faiths have love as their 

9 core belief. We are mandated to love ourselves, 

10 to love our fellow human beings, to love our God, 

11 and to love God's creation. And, by extension, 

12 we are mandated to not abuse ourselves, not abuse 

13 our fellow human beings, not abuse our God -- we 

14 call that blasphemy -- and not abuse God's 

15 creation. 

16 We in the faith community have generally 

17 worked on the first three of these laws pretty 

18 well -- love of self, neighbor, and God -- but we 

19 have, by and large, fallen short on our love for 

20 the creation. Now we are trying to catch up on 

21 that creation part of our mandate. 

22 Four or five years ago, GIPL -- that's 
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1 Georgia Interfaith Power and Light -- started 

2 doing energy audits on the buildings of our 

3 congregations. The audit reports came back with 

4 attached recommendations for energy-saving 

5 improvements that would cut the consumption of 

6 electricity in those facilities, and, therefore, 

7 cut the emissions of carbon dioxide into the 

8 atmosphere, and, not coincidentally, cut the size 

9 of the utility bills for the congregation. As we 

10 tell them, they can now use that money for 

11 missions. 

12 Since 2010, aided by a federal stimulus 

13 grant, we have employed a professional engineer 

14 to do these audits. It is hard to give exact 

15 results of the audits since it is an active 

16 program with audits and improvements in various 

17 stages of completion. Since 2010, however, our 

18 professional engineer has completed 179 audits up 

19 and down the whole state of Georgia. We 

20 estimated we had saved congregations annual over 

21 three-quarters of a million dollars in utility 

22 bills. We have cut annual electrical power usage 
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1 by 3-3/4 billion kilowatt hours, and we have 

2 saved the annual emission of over 7 million 

3 pounds of carbon dioxide. We are serious about 

4 keeping as much greenhouse gas out of the 

5 atmosphere as we can. 

6 So we in the faith community are starting 

7 to do our part of this massive shift that must be 

8 taken. Now we are asking our government to do 

9 its part through the adoption of reasonable 

10 regulations that will help our utilities do their 

11 part. We ask that EPA adopt the Clean Power Plan 

12 as proposed. 

13 By the way, we strongly oppose the action 

14 of Georgia's attorney general, in bringing suit 

15 against the EPA over this plan. Because this 

16 suit supports keeping our environment polluted, 

17 we declare it immoral and we oppose it. 

18 Thank you for your attention. 

19 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Jennette Gayer. 

20 I just remind folks if you have written 

21 comments please share them with the court 

22 reporter, and before you begin your comments to 
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1 spell your first and last name. 

2 MS. GAYER: Five minutes or 3 minutes? 

3 MS. KEMPER: Five minutes. 

4 MS. GAYER: And we have a life? Oh, 

5 good. 

6 MS. KEMPER: Yellow is the warning and 

7 red is the stop. 

8 MS. GAYER: Thank you so much for the 

9 opportunity to speak today. My name is Jennette 

10 Gayer. It's J-e-n-n-e-t-t-e, last name 

11 G-a-y-e-r. I'm the Director of Environment 

12 Georgia, which is a statewide, nonprofit, 

13 citizen-funded organization that works on air, 

14 water, and green space issues. 

15 Well, I'll just comment first. It's been 

16 a busy day. I don't know if you all are aware 

17 but the Director of the Bureau of Ocean and 

18 Energy Management is in town today for an 

19 offshore drilling hearing later this afternoon. 

20 I'm hosting a panel on Solarize, which is a way 

21 to obviously lock purchase solar in Georgia, 

22 which we have a program on Tybee Island and a 
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1 program in Athens and hope to have other programs 

2 too. So it's been a busy day. 

3 I wanted, with my time, to actually read 

4 a letter from Councilmember Paul Wolff, who is a 

5 councilman on Tybee Island. In full disclosure, 

6 he's also a board member of Environment Georgia, 

7 but I think he makes a really good points that I 

8 wanted to make sure that they were entered into 

9 the public record. I practiced reading this 

10 aloud and it took me under 5 minutes so hopefully 

11 that will be the case again. 

12 "Dear Administrator McCarthy, thank you 

13 for the opportunity to comment on the EPA's 

14 proposed Clean Power Plan, especially the makeup 

15 of a Federal Implementation Plan. As a resident 

16 and fifth-term city councilman on Tybee Island I 

17 have a strong interest in the impacts of climate 

18 change and applaud EPA for moving forward with 

19 rules that will limit carbon pollution from power 

20 plants. 

21 "Tybee is a barrier island off the coast 

22 of Savannah. The population of our island is 
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1 around 3,000 people but it swells to more than 

2 30,000 four months a year when visitors come to 

3 enjoy our beautiful beaches. Global warming 

4 threatens our island in a number of ways. Most 

5 recently, our island made headlines when a king 

6 tide swamped the causeway connecting Savannah and 

7 Tybee and our only access to the mainland was cut 

8 off for 4 hours, 3 days in a row. This high tide 

9 was the third-highest on record. The only two 

10 that were higher were in 1940 and 1947, during 

11 hurricane storm surges. 

12 "Our entire economy is based on tourism 

13 and accessibility. We spent 3 years developing a 

14 climate change adaptation plan to deal with sea 

15 level rise and our scientific projections 

16 indicate that with no action the Highway 80 

17 causeway will be under water 50 times a year, 

18 causing major disruptions to our economy and 

19 quality of life. 

20 "Because Tybee is so vulnerable, I also 

21 think it is critical that we take a lead role in 

22 the transition away from fossil fuels and toward 
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1 renewable energy generation. In 2014, I launched 

2 Georgia's Solarize program on Tybee Island, which 

3 was so successful that it was expanded to 

4 Savannah and the rest of Chatham County, and in 

5 less than half a year the program installed 335 

6 kilowatts of solar power capacity on rooftops 

7 around Tybee and the rest of the county. Athens8 Clarke County and Atlanta are already moving 

9 forward on their own Solarize program. 

10 "In order to address the climate crisis 

11 we need to accelerate our progress toward 100 

12 percent clean energy, and EPA finalizes the model 

13 rule and the Federal Implementation Plan which we 

14 strongly encourage you to ensure that these 

15 programs incentivize investment in clean energy 

16 resources such as wind, solar, and energy 

17 efficiency as much as possible. 

18 "As you know, the Georgia attorney 

19 general has sued the EPA over the Clean Power 

20 Plan, but Georgia's Environmental Protection 

21 Division has also signaled its intention to move 

22 forward with drafting a compliance plan, likely 
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1 asking for an extension in 2016. As a decision2 maker on the coast, I argue we don't have time 

3 for protected legal battles and delays, and to 

4 this point I have a few specific recommendations 

5 on the proposed model rule and the federal plan. 

6 "The faster EPA can finalize the model 

7 rule the more certainty states will have as they 

8 develop their compliance plans and the quicker 

9 they can move forward. We urge EPA to consider 

10 whether some components can be finalized shortly 

11 after the comment period closes. 

12 "EPA should apply the federal plan 

13 provisions swiftly, should a state decline to 

14 adequately carry our its responsibilities, and we 

15 support EPA's proposal to issue a federal plan 

16 for any state that does not meet one of the 

17 interim state planning milestones, and urge EPA 

18 to do so within less than 1 year after finding 

19 that the state is not on track to submit a final 

20 state plan. EPA must ensure that effective power 

21 plants abide by enforceable limits on their 

22 emissions of global warming pollution by applying 
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1 effective accountability mechanisms." 

2 And that's all he has. He says thank you 

3 again. 

4 So I'll make sure he submits this in 

5 writing and we really appreciate the opportunity. 

6 He couldn't make it, obviously, from the coast 

7 today but we appreciate the opportunity to share 

8 this with you and look forward to moving forward. 

9 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Questions? 

10 [No audible response.] 

11 MS. KEMPER: Thank you very much. 

12 Our next commenters are Benita Dodd and 

13 Eleanor Hand. 

14 You may begin when you're ready, stating 

15 your name and spelling both your first name and 

16 your last name. 

17 MS. DODD: Good afternoon. My name is 

18 Benita, B-e-n-i-t-a, D-o-d-d, Dodd, and I'm Vice 

19 President of the Georgia Public Policy 

20 Foundation, which is the state-based free-market 

21 public policy research organization in Georgia. 

22 Thank you for the opportunity to address you on 
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1 the proposed federal plan and model rules for the 

2 Clean Power Plan. 

3 The Foundation opposes the Obama 

4 administration's Clean Power Plan to reduce 

5 carbon emissions, which the Administration has 

6 tried to relabel as carbon pollution. No 

7 reasonable American wants to return to smoggy 

8 days in America, and most would be willing to 

9 sacrifice if it would help the environment. But 

10 whether you're a climate skeptic or a climate 

11 believer, this has no effect on the climate. EPA 

12 Administrator Gina McCarthy admitted to Congress 

13 that this plan, which is intended to mitigate 

14 climate change, will barely move the needle on 

15 global temperatures, and she defended it, saying 

16 "the value of this rule is not measured in that 

17 way. It's measured in showing strong domestic 

18 action which can actually trigger global action 

19 to address towards a necessary action." 

20 In August, President Obama said the only 

21 reason that China is getting serious about their 

22 emissions is because of us. The New York Times 
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1 reported, in November, on November 4th, that 

2 China is actually burning up to 17 percent more 

3 coal per year than it previously reported, and 

4 the increase in carbon dioxide emissions alone is 

5 greater than the whole German economy emits 

6 annually from fossil fuels, and I'm quoting the 

7 New York Times on that. 

8 This example that America expects to set 

9 is expected to reduce global temperatures by 0.01 

10 degrees Celsius. The average American is 

11 expected to see a drop of about $85 in annual 

12 power bills. The EPA Fact Sheet says the plan 

13 will shrink electricity both by about 8 percent 

14 in 2030, or as EPA puts it, $7 a month. This a 

15 credit to increased efficiency -- that means 

16 using less electricity. That's akin to telling 

17 people your grocery bill will be lower without 

18 telling them they'll have to make do with fewer 

19 groceries. 

20 EPA estimates the combined climate 

21 benefits and health co-benefits of $32 billion to 

22 $48 billion in 2030. Well, it's really hard to 
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1 understand where the climate benefits will come 

2 from when there's already an admission that 

3 there's essentially no climate benefit. It's 

4 hard, too, to believe the EPA estimates on health 

5 benefits. When the Foundation testified before 

6 the EPA in Atlanta in 2014, we pointed out the 

7 plan's claimed reduction in children's asthma 

8 goes against the evidence. Worse, it's going to 

9 hurt upward mobility for low-income families 

10 where asthma is more prevalent, meaning fewer job 

11 opportunities and less money available to improve 

12 their quality of life and health. 

13 Meanwhile, the American Action Forum 

14 warns that it's going to cost the U.S. economy 

15 $2.5 trillion to close at least 77 coal-fired 

16 plants and eliminate 125,000-plus jobs. 

17 There's a greater problem -- coal will 

18 still be used, just not in this country where 

19 environmental responsibility is expected and 

20 demanded. As our sister think tank, the Texas 

21 Public Policy Foundation, points out, the total 

22 amount of carbon dioxide emissions the EPA hopes 
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1 to reduce across the country by 2030 will be 

2 emitted by China in less than 2 weeks. But 

3 that's not all. Consumer prices will increase, 

4 the cost of doing business will increase, causing 

5 more job losses or shrinking job creation. More 

6 businesses will move offshore and Americans will 

7 deal with a price volatility of natural gas to 

8 replace the plentiful, reliable source of coal. 

9 Our energy intensity -- that's our 

10 consumption based on GDP -- is continuing to 

11 decline. We're getting so much more bang for our 

12 buck. Our air quality continues to improve, even 

13 as our energy use increases. 

14 Now, as you may notice from my accent, 

15 I'm from South Africa originally, and I get 

16 almost daily notifications from my family about 

17 load-shedding. That's scheduled blackouts. The 

18 New York Times reported this week on the energy 

19 shortages in sub-Saharan Africa. It reported 

20 that while South Africa has seen an increase from 

21 34 percent of houses electrified to 85 percent 

22 now, it doesn't really matter if you don't have 
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1 the electricity coming to your house. My family 

2 calls all the time, telling me how they had to 

3 spend the night doing their homework by 

4 candlelight. I think that America deserves 

5 better than that and I think that we deserve a 

6 reliable source of energy. 

7 Thank you. 

8 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Do we have any 

9 questions from the panel? 

10 [No audible response.] 

11 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

12 MS. HAND: Hello. I'm Eleanor Hand, 

13 E-l-e-a-n-o-r H-a-n-d. I'm co-chair of the 

14 Georgia Sierra Club Energy Committee. 

15 I support the Clean Power Plan. This 

16 plan will protect the health of millions of 

17 Americans, preserve property, provide jobs, and 

18 contribute to the survival of many species of 

19 lives. It sends a strong message to other 

20 countries that the U.S. is making the commitment 

21 to slow the impending devastation of climate 

22 change to building new energy future based on 
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1 renewable resources and to use that energy 

2 efficiently. 

3 It is costly not to comply with this 

4 plan. You, the EPA, estimate that the Clean 

5 Power Plan will result in a net climate and 

6 health benefit of $25 to $45 billion by 2030. 

7 The Risky Business Project studied the economic 

8 risk of climate change. This study projects that 

9 on our current path, by 2050, between $66 and 

10 $106 billion worth of coastal property in the 

11 U.S. is likely to be below sea level. Much of 

12 that is in the Southeast. 

13 Two weeks ago, the only highway access to 

14 Tybee Island on the coast of Georgia was flooded 

15 by high tide. This is the third time in history. 

16 The other two times were in the 1940s, during 

17 hurricanes. It's here. 

18 Also projected in this study, by the end 

19 of the century extreme heat will cause a 50 to 70 

20 percent loss in average annual crop yields in the 

21 Southeast, and a 3 percent reduction in labor 

22 productivity for construction, utility 
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1 maintenance, landscaping, and agriculture 

2 workers. This could cost the economy of Georgia 

3 up to $2 billion a year. These are serious 

4 losses. 

5 We can reduce these risks if policy6 makers and business leaders act now to reduce 

7 emissions. The Clean Power Plan would reduce 

8 Georgia emission 25 percent below 2005 levels by 

9 2030. Governor Deal of Georgia has directed the 

10 state Environmental Protection Division to begin 

11 planning for the state compliance. Thank you, 

12 Governor Deal, for protecting the health and 

13 wealth of our citizens. 

14 Georgia is well on its way to meeting 

15 this goal. The Georgia EPD made a presentation 

16 to Georgia stakeholders on October 8, 2015. The 

17 presentation was titled "State Components and 

18 Timeline." The presentation accounted for the 

19 planned retirement of 14 coal-fired units, the 

20 start-up of 2 nuclear units at Plant Vogtle, and 

21 the start-up of a number of renewable energy 

22 projects. All these retirements and additions of 
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1 nuclear and renewable energy would be considered 

2 business as usual because they're currently 

3 planned. Doing business as usual, Georgia 

4 achieves a 2020 goal of approximately 1,200 

5 pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour. This is only 65 

6 pounds above the 2020 EPA goal for Georgia. 

7 Georgia comes very close to meeting its 2020 goal 

8 by conducting business as usual, or following 

9 steps already planned. 

10 In addition, the Clean Power Plan 

11 provides credits if Georgia establishes, by 2020, 

12 energy efficiency programs focused on low-income 

13 residents. This is a low-cost route to reducing 

14 Georgia's demand. Many utilities have already 

15 established energy efficiency programs as part of 

16 their business model. Georgia Power needs to 

17 establish an aggressive and creative energy 

18 efficiency program rather than sue the EPA. 

19 Georgia's clean energy industry provided 

20 more than 19,000 full-time clean energy jobs in 

21 2014, more than Georgia Power's entire workforce 

22 during the same period. 
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1 There are sustainable opportunities to 

2 further reduce carbon emissions between 2020 and 

3 2030. The National Renewable Energy Lab reports 

4 Georgia has the potential to produce more than 40 

5 times as much electricity from solar power as the 

6 state consumes each year. Georgia is the 

7 fastest-growing solar market in the nation. 

8 There are opportunities to buy wind from 

9 the Midwest, cheap wind from the Midwest. The 

10 new NREL wind maps show with greater hub heights 

11 and better blade technology Georgia has good wind 

12 potential onshore and that wind turbines offshore 

13 could produce enough energy to meet one-third of 

14 Georgia's demand. 

15 So no thank you to Georgia Power and no 

16 thank you to the attorney general of the state of 

17 Georgia. Georgia has no need to sue the EPA. 

18 Georgians need to take this timely opportunity to 

19 reduce carbon emissions and step forward with 

20 enthusiasm and creativity. Georgia, let's be a 

21 leader in building a sustainable, efficient, and 

22 renewable energy future. The Clean Power Plan is 
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1 a good road map to that future. 

2 Thank you. 

3 MR. BOSWELL: Just to remind the 

4 commenters, if you have hard copies that you can 

5 leave with the court reporter we would appreciate 

6 it. 

7 MS. KEMPER: Taylor Prince and Amy Kelly, 

8 please come to the speaker's table. And as Mr. 

9 Prince and Ms. Kelly come to the speaker's table, 

10 just a reminder for everyone, begin your time 

11 with stating your name and spelling both your 

12 first name and your last name, and submit any 

13 written comments to the court reporter that you 

14 have available. 

15 With that, Mr. Prince. 

16 MR. PRINCE: Good afternoon. My name is 

17 Taylor Prince. That's T-a-y-l-o-r P-r-i-n-c-e. 

18 I'm a chemical engineer from Oak Ridge, 

19 Tennessee, and a volunteer for SOCM. That's 

20 Statewide Organizing for Community Empowerment. 

21 I also represent the views of my family, over 

22 half of which work for Allergy, Asthma, and Sinus 
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1 Center, one of the country's largest allergy and 

2 immunology practices. I want to thank you for 

3 holding this hearing and especially for 

4 highlighting the public health risks associated 

5 with climate change. 

6 Here in the South, too many people deny 

7 the well-documented science that our carbon 

8 pollution will raise the Earth's temperature to 

9 unsafe levels in the next 50 to 100 years. What 

10 they can't deny, however, is the already present 

11 public health risk associated with our industrial 

12 pollutants. The Clean Power Plan could prevent 

13 up to 90,000 asthma attacks annually, which I 

14 suspect this policy, in full implementation, 

15 could prevent even more than that. 

16 USDA and NIH scientific studies confirmed 

17 a 200 percent increase in CO2 concentrations 

18 cause a 400 percent increase in pollen 

19 production. Furthermore, the potency and 

20 allergenicity of that pollen increases. By 

21 reining in this carbon pollution, we can curb 

22 pollen pollution which causes asthmatic triggers. 
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1 I appreciate that you all include the 

2 indirect benefits of limiting carbon pollution, 

3 particularly concerning pollutants from coal4 fired power plants. NOx emissions, mixed with 

5 isoprene from trees to create unhealthy levels of 

6 ground-level ozone. The ozone, smog, and 

7 particulate matter from coal plants cause asthma 

8 attacks. Numerous studies prove that heavy metal 

9 pollutants and known neurotoxins from coal, such 

10 as lead, cadmium, mercury, arsenic -- the list 

11 goes on -- lead to increased stress and anxiety. 

12 This again leads to increased asthma triggers. 

13 Perhaps most admirable is your commitment 

14 to environmental justice with this plan. As 

15 we've heard today, air can be very racist. On 

16 average, non-white demographic groups breathe air 

17 that is 38 percent higher in NO2. Black and 

18 Hispanic groups are more likely to live near 

19 industrial pollution. Black Americans have a 330 

20 percent higher rate of asthma-related emergency 

21 department visits, with a death rate of 180 

22 percent higher. When I was a teenager, I had a 
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1 friend that was having an asthma attacks, 

2 struggling to find his inhaler. I never felt so 

3 fearful and helpless. Now I know there's a 

4 chance we can prevent further attacks like this 

5 happening. That's why I'm here today. 

6 With Knoxville, Nashville, Memphis, and 

7 Chattanooga consistently ranking in the top 10 of 

8 worst cities to live with asthma, my family and 

9 the allergy practice would have a vested 

10 financial interest to allow this pollution to 

11 continue. However, we are dedicated to saving 

12 lives and improving quality of life. 

13 We'd like you to know that despite our 

14 very political backgrounds, you have our full 

15 support in mitigating climate change and 

16 improving public health in this country. 

17 Thank you. 

18 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

19 MS. KELLY: Amy Kelly with Appalachian 

20 Voices. A-m-y K-e-l-l-y. I work on the Energy 

21 Savings for Appalachia program, and I just wanted 

22 to say that I appreciate all the moms and 
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1 grandmothers speaking on behalf of their children 

2 and grandchildren earlier today, and what they've 

3 seen happen as far as asthma attacks go. 

4 I grew up with asthma and I didn't have a 

5 childhood because of that. Speaking with 

6 industry representatives later, I learned from a 

7 retired environmental engineer at the largest 

8 polluting plant in my hometown, that regulations 

9 caused them to change what they were emitting 

10 into the air. My asthma slowly improved. Today, 

11 many years later, I, like so many others, are 

12 here to support EPA's Clean Power Plan. 

13 I want to focus my comments at this time 

14 on energy efficiency and the Clean Energy 

15 Incentive Program. The Southeast has 29 percent 

16 of the nation's energy efficiency potential. 

17 Energy efficiency is the least-cost way for 

18 states to meet their pollution reduction targets, 

19 and according to reports, energy efficiency 

20 produces more good-paying jobs compared to 

21 investment in other industry sectors. Much of 

22 the energy waste in the South is plaguing lower-
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1 income and marginalized communities. The rule 

2 should target energy efficiency investments for 

3 these communities. We need to ensure that an 

4 allowance value goes to consumers through energy 

5 efficiency, bill rebates, workforce training, and 

6 other low-income community investments. 

7 EPA's model rule sets, as a default, an 

8 assumption that the public will transfer the 

9 entire value of all the allocated CEIP allowances 

10 to the owners of coal power plants in exchange 

11 for methane. It's like the game Monopoly, where 

12 all the energy players start out with a certain 

13 amount of free money or credits. EPA is not 

14 being clear about this in webinars or 

15 presentations, which is alarming. We need to 

16 have an auction versus allowance system so that 

17 the public doesn't give a free pass to polluters. 

18 I would be remiss if I didn't ask that 

19 the Power Plus Plan, which is different than the 

20 Clean Power Plan but it relates to it, it needs 

21 to be funded alongside the Clean Power Plan. 

22 This basically provides funding so that 
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1 Appalachian communities can retool and retrain 

2 and diversify their economy. Appalachian 

3 communities have been the sacrifice them [ph] for 

4 powering the country for centuries and the Power 

5 Plus Plan shows that they can be the clean energy 

6 leaders of the future. 

7 Thank you for helping keep coal in the 

8 ground, where it needs to stay, but let's make 

9 sure that our families which have been indentured 

10 by this industry have opportunities in the 

11 future. 

12 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Thank you both. 

13 Bruce Blohm and Jacquelin Carter. 

14 MR. BLOHM: Thank you. My name is Bruce 

15 Blohm, B-l-o-h-m, and I'm representing 

16 GreenSpace.org and St. Paul's Episcopal Church in 

17 Chattanooga, as well as the South Chickamauga 

18 Creek Greenway Alliance, and I really appreciate 

19 an opportunity to talk about the two issues that 

20 are nearest and dearest to my heart with this 

21 plan. 

22 First of all, as we probably heard 
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1 extensively, is that the dirty power that's 

2 affecting our world, our region, our communities, 

3 is not just affecting us individually, equally, 

4 but obviously more impactful to those of lower 

5 incomes and people of color, and from a moral 

6 issue I think this particular bill will help us 

7 as a nation move in the direction of being 

8 citizens having a right to some of the clean air 

9 and the healthful benefits of living in our 

10 communities across the country, and I want to 

11 thank you for putting forth this bill. 

12 We talked about dirty carbon, polluted 

13 air causing asthma attacks, hospital visits, 

14 medical conditions, and premature deaths, and 

15 there's a society consequence to that that we are 

16 feeling right now, particularly in the 

17 Chattanooga area, that I'm well-aware of, and 

18 economically, we're paying this price for these 

19 citizens who are getting undeserved losses and 

20 impacts. African-American children are twice as 

21 likely to be hospitalized from their asthma and 

22 four times likely to die. So those are some 
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1 things that stand out in my mind. 

2 So from a faith community perspective, 

3 that's where we want to focus our support for 

4 this bill, is that it does reach into our society 

5 as a whole, and I think we have a moral reason to 

6 do that. 

7 Secondly, from a South Chickamauga Creek 

8 Greenway Alliance perspective, the residual of 

9 dirty power, things like coal ash blowing into 

10 our streams and our creeks, is not something that 

11 a lot of people are aware of, but if we can move 

12 forward on this we're going to be preventing 

13 needless to our most treasured asset, in the form 

14 of water. One thing that we may or may not 

15 realize is that you can go 3 weeks without food 

16 but you can only go 3 days without water. 

17 So from a large perspective, the impact 

18 of dirty power on our clean water, not only here 

19 in this area where we have plentiful amounts but 

20 across the country. So I want to thank you for 

21 supporting this and on behalf of our faith 

22 communities and the water protection forum say 
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1 please put forth every bit of it. 

2 Thank you. 

3 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

4 MS. CARTER: I'm Jacquelin Carter, spelled 

5 J-a-c-q-u-e-l-i-n C-a-r-t-e-r. I go by Jackie. 

6 I'm a student at the University of Tennessee at 

7 Chattanooga and I'd like to t hank you all for 

8 doing your job and holding these public hearing 

9 today for the fourth branch of government, my 

10 personal favorite branch, active citizenship. 

11 And I felt inclined to hop onto a bus today from 

12 Chattanooga, Tennessee, and thus miss world 

13 politics because I am going to Paris soon, and I 

14 -- well, I came here because I'm tired of being 

15 misrepresented, on all government -- levels of 

16 government, in all fields, and those people with 

17 power and they're not representing my generation. 

18 I assume I'm left to stand up for myself and my 

19 generation. 

20 So the policies that you put in place, 

21 though I don't know the ins and outs of policy 

22 yet, or if I ever do, whatnot, please make sure 
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1 that -- pardon my French -- that you do a damn 

2 good job, because, I mean, it'll be affecting, I 

3 assume I'm one of the youngest in the room, so my 

4 generation the most. 

5 And, yeah, I'm ready to be represented so 

6 thank you for giving me a voice today. 

7 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. Doug Lego 

8 and Colleen McLoughlin. 

9 MR. LEGO: Good afternoon. My name is 

10 Doug Lego. It's D-o-u-g L-e-g-o. I'm the Vice 

11 President and Chief Administrative Officer for 

12 the Municipal Electric Authority of Georgia, 

13 commonly known as MEAG Power. 

14 MEAG Power was solely created for one 

15 purpose -- to serve our 49 members, public power 

16 communities in Georgia with reliable and 

17 affordable wholesale electricity. We operate 

18 without profit and have no shareholders. Our 

19 costs incurred for the supply of power directly 

20 reflected in the electric bills of the retail 

21 electricity consumers in our 49 communities. 

22 It's on behalf of the citizens of the 49 
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1 communities that I provide these comments today. 

2 They're the ones that will bear the impact of 

3 these rules. 

4 The regulatory approach for the Clean 

5 Power Plan and the proposed federal plan go well 

6 beyond the limits of Section 111(d) of the Clean 

7 Air Act. The final Clean Power Plan and the 

8 proposed federal plan infringe on state and local 

9 authority to regulate electric utility business 

10 and on the utility's ability to plan and operate 

11 the electricity supply in a manner that considers 

12 costs and reliability. 

13 Specific issues include the Clean Power 

14 Plan and proposed federal plan are designed to 

15 achieve a 32 percent national reduction in tons 

16 of carbon dioxide versus 2005 for the power 

17 sector as a whole. This is not what Section 

18 111(d) requires. Section 111(d) only authorizes 

19 standards of performance on individual affected 

20 sources. 

21 The Clean Power Plan and the proposed 

22 federal plan mandate emission performance rates 
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1 and state goals that go far beyond setting 

2 standards on the affected sources, extending its 

3 reach beyond the fence line of affected sources 

4 and requiring generating unit performance that is 

5 not achievable within the fence line. 

6 MEAG Power believes that the Clean Power 

7 Plan and the proposed federal plan for regulatory 

8 overreaches by the EPA and the regulations should 

9 address electric generating unit affected sources 

10 only. Moreover, MEAG Power believes that due to 

11 multiple power plant closures that would occur in 

12 Georgia, and the many renewable generation 

13 sources that are likely to be constructed under 

14 the Clean Power Plan, reliability of the power 

15 grid will be compromised. 

16 Because of these significant concerns, we 

17 support the state motions, filed in the D.C. 

18 Circuit Court of Appeals by over half of the U.S. 

19 states, and other petitioners, to stop further 

20 implementation of the final Clean Power Plan 

21 until the court decides whether or not the rule 

22 satisfies 111(d). 
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1 The current supplied to our 49 member 

2 communities consists of over 1,200 megawatts and 

3 nuclear and hydroelectric power. As a result of 

4 that, over 50 percent of the electricity supplied 

5 to the communities is produced while creating no 

6 emissions. This final rule provides little 

7 credit for these carbon-free resources and, 

8 instead, may require our communities to fund new, 

9 unneeded renewable energy resources which raise 

10 the cost to electric consumers. 

11 Looking to invest in the future of their 

12 communities, our members have not only committed 

13 to the construction of new, non-emitting 

14 resources in Vogtle Units 3 and 4 but have also 

15 funded half-billion dollars in state-of-the-art 

16 emission control improvements for our coal17 generating resources, based on recent federal and 

18 state rules. 

19 The Clean Power Plan and proposed federal 

20 plan penalize the communities for these 

21 investments by asking for even more emission 

22 reductions from the state of Georgia, which has 
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1 seen substantial reduction in emissions since 

2 2005. The final Clean Power Plan and proposed 

3 federal plan would likely require significantly 

4 reduced coal unit operations, potentially even 

5 requiring shut-down of the units, which strands 

6 the cost of the recent environmental investments 

7 and again raises the cost of electricity to 

8 consumers in our communities. 

9 Each hour of the day, MEAG manages the 

10 use of our diverse mix of generation resources in 

11 other to provide the lowest-cost wholesale power 

12 for our 49 communities, which is essential to 

13 their growth and prosperity. This principle of 

14 economic dispatch is the foundation of power 

15 industry operations and allows for use of a 

16 diverse set of fuels and resources in manner that 

17 ensures that citizens receive the benefit of 

18 their investment. Preventing economic dispatch 

19 of the system would unnecessarily raise the cost 

20 to electric consumers. 

21 In summary, the Clean Power Plan and the 

22 proposed federal plan go well beyond the 
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1 requirements of Section 111(d) of the Clean Air 

2 Act and will create additional costs that will 

3 flow directly to the citizens in the communities 

4 we serve. Many of these citizens are low- and 

5 fixed-income and can least afford an increase in 

6 their electricity costs. 

7 Thank you very much for this opportunity 

8 to make comments. 

9 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

10 MS. McLOUGHLIN: Hello. My name is 

11 Colleen McLoughlin. I am a campaign organizer 

12 with Environment Georgia, a statewide, citizen13 funded advocacy group. We work to protect our 

14 air, our water, and our open spaces. 

15 MS. KEMPER: Would you please spell both 

16 your first and last names? 

17 MS. McLOUGHLIN: Sorry. Yes. Colleen, 

18 C-o-l-l-e-e-n, McLoughlin, M-c-L-o-u-g-h-l-i-n, 

19 and again, I'm with Environment Georgia. We have 

20 thousands of members across Georgia who support 

21 our work to protect the environment. 

22 The Clean Air Act directs the EPA to set 
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1 national clean air standards. This includes 

2 carbon pollution from burning fossil fuels. The 

3 Clean Power Plan is a pragmatic, flexible 

4 approach to mitigate the risks of climate change, 

5 allowing states to tailor the plan specific to 

6 the needs of families and businesses in their 

7 state. 

8 Opponents of the Clean Power Plan claim 

9 consumers will see their electricity bills rise. 

10 That would only happen if we choose a compliance 

11 strategy heavily reliant on nuclear power, the 

12 most expensive and complicated way to generate 

13 electricity. We should not be relying on natural 

14 gas either, which is cheap now but volatile, and 

15 at continuing cost. Solar and wind are the 

16 cheapest sources of energy over the long term. 

17 Yes, there is an initial cost, but essentially it 

18 is free energy. Over the long term, it is our 

19 cheapest source of energy. 

20 The clean energy industry generates 

21 almost $3 billion in gross revenue and provided 

22 over 19,000 full-time jobs in Georgia in 2014. 
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1 That is more than Georgia Power's entire 

2 workforce during the same period. 

3 By investing in clean energy now, we will 

4 contribute to economic growth, produce more jobs, 

5 and ensure a cleaner, healthier planet for future 

6 generations. 

7 I will now list some added benefits of 

8 solar energy, in particular, in Georgia. Georgia 

9 is the fastest-growing solar market in the U.S. 

10 We are well-positioned to make renewable energy a 

11 pillar of our state economy. There are already 

12 over 170 solar companies at work in Georgia, 

13 giving jobs to over 3,000 Georgians, and powering 

14 thousands of homes and businesses. Yet we still 

15 only get 1 percent of our energy from solar. Our 

16 potential to boost solar in the state of Georgia 

17 and the Clean Power Plan go hand in hand. 

18 Rather than sue the EPA over the Clean 

19 Power Plan, Georgia should be focusing its 

20 efforts on becoming the solar leader of the 

21 Southeast, if not the nation. And if Georgia 

22 fails to holds its polluters accountable and 
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1 comply with the Clean Power Plan, the EPA should 

2 absolutely implement the Federal Implementation 

3 Plan, and we ask that the EPA put special 

4 priority on talking to low-income communities, 

5 under-served communities, those who are hit 

6 hardest by the impacts of climate change when 

7 implementing the plan. 

8 Either way, we can no longer let the 

9 fossil fuel industry pollute our air, water, and 

10 open spaces without limitation. For this reason, 

11 I am in full support of the Clean Power Plan. 

12 Thank you for your time. 

13 DR. MITCHELL: Could you just elaborate a 

14 little on your comment that we should talk to EJ 

15 communities, or environmental justice 

16 communities? 

17 MS. McLOUGHLIN: Yes. Absolutely. In 

18 Clean Power Plan it states that the EPA will do 

19 all it can to reach out to those communities in 

20 particular, and we just want to make sure that is 

21 actually implemented and that low-income 

22 communities, those within 30 miles of an existing 
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1 fossil fuel power plant are spoken to and their 

2 needs are realized. 

3 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

4 Lauren Reef and Reverend Kate McGregor5 Mosley. 

6 If you'll begin by stating your name and 

7 then spelling both your first and last names. 

8 Thank you. 

9 MS. REEF: Thank you. My name is Lauren 

10 Reef, L-a-u-r-e-n R-e-e-f. I am a student at 

11 Emory University, as well as an organizer for the 

12 People's Climate March on November 29th. I am 

13 here as a young person, as a university student, 

14 to show the support of us in this effort. I, 

15 myself, grew up in a coal-mining town. I saw the 

16 effects of how coal has declined in recent years. 

17 Coal is dead. There is no reason why we should 

18 be continuing to support coal power generation in 

19 this country or in this state. 

20 The Clean Air Act directs the 

21 Environmental Protection Agency to set these 

22 national clean air standards and with these 
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1 standards for carbon pollutions for these 

2 existing fossil fuel plants. The Clean Power 

3 Plan gives states a lot of flexibility to decide 

4 the appropriate emission reduction measures to 

5 meet the standard, but if the state cannot or 

6 will not, like Georgia may actually not do, the 

7 law guarantees that communities can rely on the 

8 EPA to protect their health, and I think it's 

9 just incredibly important to remember the health 

10 effects of coal and of dirty power on our 

11 communities, especially low-income communities. 

12 It's critical that the EPA would issue 

13 this Federal Implementation Plan for states who 

14 refuse to comply, and those protections that will 

15 save the lives and protect the planet from the 

16 most dangerous effects of climate change that 

17 need to come as early as possible. 

18 Climate change is indeed a human rights 

19 issue. Communities across the globe are dealing 

20 with these devastating impacts from families 

21 displaced from their homes to industry [ph] to 

22 children suffering from health impacts of poor 
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1 air quality. I am not an activist, although I am 

2 organizing a protest march. I believe this is 

3 something that everyone should care about, and 

4 I'm just very glad that I got to come here today 

5 and talk about that. 

6 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

7 MS. McGREGOR MOSLEY: I'm Kate McGregor 

8 Mosley. K-a-t-e M-c-G-r-e-g-o-r M-o-s-l-e-y. 

9 I came today to register my support of the Clean 

10 Power Plan. I'm Executive Director and a 

11 Presbyterian minister of Georgia Interfaith Power 

12 and Light, a faith-based environmental 

13 organization mobilizing the faith communities 

14 across Georgia, engaging them in sustainable 

15 practices and environmental stewardship as a 

16 witness to faith. 

17 We are actively involved with over 1,000 

18 houses of worship across the state -- churches, 

19 synagogues, temples, religious schools even. 

20 There are 15,000, at last count, congregations 

21 and faith communities in Georgia, so we have our 

22 work cut out for us but we engage them in 
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1 practical ways they can reduce their carbon 

2 footprint and understand their energy needs while 

3 also increasing their awareness and shaping an 

4 environmental ethic as part of their moral 

5 responsibility to practice stewardship. We 

6 connect those themes with sustainability, 

7 ecological sustainability and spiritual 

8 sustainability. 

9 At GIPL we believe we have a moral 

10 imperative to address the environmental 

11 challenges of our time, and this is not something 

12 that the faith community does lightly nor does 

13 because it is trend-setting. This is a part of 

14 generations' thousands of years of faith stories 

15 woven together in the work of stewardship. So 

16 care for the Earth is an integral part of the 

17 life of faith. 

18 The practical work we do is what I think 

19 has the most bearing in this setting here. We 

20 have the tools to help congregational facilities 

21 reduce their energy needs by incorporating energy 

22 efficiencies, and the benefit, the carbon 
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1 pollution savings from these energy efficiency 

2 practices we've implemented in close to 300 

3 congregations on the ground has the benefit of 

4 like planting 100,000 trees every year. We 

5 provide grants that help congregations pay for 

6 these energy efficient upgrades and we've been 

7 able to share close to $750,000 to help the faith 

8 community implement energy efficiencies. This is 

9 an important part of reducing carbon pollution 

10 and it's an important part of the Clean Power 

11 Plan, as I understand it. 

12 So we stand in support of the Clean Power 

13 Plan because it encourages the energy efficiency 

14 implementation. We believe that the cleanest 

15 kilowatt burned is the one not burned at all. We 

16 also have seen the benefit of this work as faith 

17 communities are spending less money on energy 

18 through the energy efficiencies. That is money 

19 freed up to serve the wider community through 

20 ministries that they are called to form and that 

21 serve the community. 

22 So that's one point I want to raise. I 
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1 also want to acknowledge that it is the faith 

2 community that is on the front lines of our 

3 cities, neighborhoods, other communities that are 

4 hit hardest when the increased frequency of 

5 natural disasters as caused by climate chaos. 

6 Faith communities show up to provide direct aid 

7 as funding, but also in people power, to help 

8 people in need during critical times. So faith 

9 communities want to be engaged in addressing the 

10 challenges of climate change and environmental 

11 degradation in the communities, locally and 

12 abroad, so they're beginning to make the 

13 connections in these actions. 

14 Also, faith communities understand the 

15 moral obligation we have to care for our 

16 neighbor, so we're deeply invested in the 

17 environmental justice aspect of the Clean Power 

18 Plan, and want to see that addressed as well. 

19 Honoring the needs of our neighbors who live 

20 closest to the current coal-fired power plants as 

21 well as future energy production sites, we want 

22 the needs of those communities to be addressed, 
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1 and I do think EPA regulation is one way to 

2 address that. 

3 Thank you. 

4 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

5 [Pause.] 

6 DR. MITCHELL: While we're waiting for 

7 our next speaker name let me just remind everyone 

8 that there are multiple ways to comment today. 

9 While you're here you can write comments on 

10 comment cards that we have out in the lobby and 

11 hand them in to our staff at the registration 

12 desk. If you've brought copies, hard copies of 

13 comments you would like to submit to the docket, 

14 you can also provide them, hand them in here to 

15 our court reporter or to our folks at the 

16 registration desk. We also have fact sheets out 

17 in the lobby that provide instructions on 

18 submitting comments to the docket as well. 

19 And just to remind everyone, if you do 

20 want to submit written comments to the docket, 

21 the comment period closes January 21st, and so we 

22 encourage you to make sure you keep that in mind 
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1 so that you get your comments in in time. 

2 MS. KEMPER: Our next speaker is Doug 

3 Miell. 

4 MR. Miell: Good afternoon. My name is 

5 Doug Miell. That's D-o-u-g M-i-e-l-l, and I'm 

6 representing the Georgia Chamber of Commerce, and 

7 I thank you for the opportunity to present brief 

8 comments today on the Federal Implementation Plan 

9 option as outlined in the Clean Power Plan. 

10 At the outside I must state that the 

11 Chamber did not and does not support the Clean 

12 Power Plan in its current form, and we 

13 articulated our concerns during the comment 

14 period early on this year. Of the implementation 

15 options available, should the plan survive legal 

16 challenge, the Chamber's preference, arrived 

17 after discussion with our energy generation 

18 members, is for a state implementation plan and 

19 not a federally imposed implementation plan to be 

20 applied here in Georgia. The Chamber will work 

21 proactively with Georgia's Environmental 

22 Protection Division and our energy members to 
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1 make this outcome a reality. 

2 The Chamber is the largest voice of 

3 Georgia's business community. We understand that 

4 our members share one important requirement -- 

5 the need for reliable and affordable energy. It 

6 is a major key to Georgia's competitiveness and 

7 success and underpins our business investment, 

8 employment growth, and enviable living standards. 

9 I'd also like to take this opportunity to 

10 comment the numerous businesses in Georgia that 

11 have effectively introduced market-driven 

12 efficiencies into their operations, that have 

13 resulted in significant CO2 emissions reductions 

14 and that, in their business process, is an 

15 ongoing challenge for them. While acknowledging 

16 the finalization of the Clean Power Plan, the 

17 Chamber continues to support market-based 

18 development of energy generation capabilities of 

19 which coal-fuel generation is now, and will 

20 continue to be, an important component. 

21 We also believe that Georgia is setting 

22 the standard for the nation in advancing solar 
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1 energy, seeing our state rank as the top leader 

2 in solar development. According to the Georgia 

3 Solar Energy Industry Association, and without 

4 the Clean Power Plan, there are more than 186 

5 solar companies at work here in Georgia now, 

6 investing in excess of $79 million to install 

7 solar on homes and businesses. 

8 Georgia has already achieved significant 

9 emissions reductions through the combined actions 

10 of utilities, regulators, and consumers. Data in 

11 the 2014 Georgia Energy Report reveals that in 

12 recent year Georgia has significantly changed its 

13 energy generation needs and reduced its carbon 

14 emissions by fuel-switching, utility investments, 

15 and consumption efficiencies. This can be 

16 attributed to a combination of market forces, 

17 regulatory stimulation, and consumer behavior. 

18 The multi-billion-dollar investment in nuclear 

19 generation, with the construction of Plant 

20 Vogtle's Units 3 and 4, will make an important 

21 contribution to this generation diversity for 

22 many years to come. 
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1 The Chamber support's Georgia's attorney 

2 general Sam Olens' challenge to EPA's Clean Power 

3 Plan. We note that Georgia is but one of 24 

4 states and a number of individual groups and 

5 individual companies to challenge the plan. It 

6 is the Chamber's view that all implementation 

7 activities associated with the Clean Power Plan 

8 should be suspended pending the conclusion of the 

9 numerous legal challenges to its validity. 

10 The Chamber acknowledges and supports the 

11 commitments of its energy members and Georgia's 

12 Environmental Protection Division to commence 

13 development of a state implementation plan. It 

14 is the considered opinion of all concerned that 

15 the successful implementation of the state 

16 implementation plan is the preferred outcome for 

17 Georgia. 

18 The Chamber does not support the 

19 application of the inflexible, poorly designed 

20 Federal Implementation Plan option in Georgia. 

21 That would be a flawed, costly solution that 

22 would provide limited benefits to the state. 
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1 More specifically, we think provisions in the 

2 Clean Power Plan that rate the benefits of 

3 biomass differently than other renewable sources 

4 is of prime concern, particularly for a state 

5 that has such a large abundance of timber 

6 resources. Such inequities should be rectified 

7 should EPA advance with a Federal Implementation 

8 Plan here in Georgia. 

9 As I stated earlier, should the Clean 

10 Power Plan survive the numerous legal challenges, 

11 the Chamber will work proactively with the 

12 Georgia Environmental Protection Division and 

13 their energy members to ensure that a state 

14 implementation plan that is in the best interest 

15 of Georgians becomes a reality here in Georgia. 

16 Thank you. 

17 MS. KEMPER: Thank you very much. We 

18 will now take a 10-minute break and come back for 

19 more speakers. Thank you. 

20 [Break taken from 3:01 to 3:18 p.m.] 

21 MS. KEMPER: We are back in session, and 

22 we are calling Marin Angeles Gutierrez and the 
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1 Reverend William Flippin, Jr. 

2 And while our speakers get ready we have 

3 a public service announcement. 

4 DR. MITCHELL: Kindly take a look and see 

5 if you have your cell phone. A cell phone was 

6 found and has been taken down to the guard's 

7 desk, just as you enter the building, if you've 

8 lost your phone. 

9 MS. KEMPER: So once again, the Reverend 

10 William Flippin, Jr. If you'll begin by stating 

11 your name and spelling your name. 

12 MS. GUTIERREZ: Actually, my name is 

13 Marin Angeles Gutierrez, but I'm going to be 

14 speaking for Karen Graimey, K-a-r-e-n 

15 G-r-a-i-m-e-y. 

16 MS. KEMPER: We'll also need yours as 

17 well. 

18 MS. GUTIERREZ: My name is Marin Angeles, 

19 M-a-r-i-n A-n-g-e-l-e-s, last name Gutierrez, 

20 G-u-t-i-e-r-r-e-z. 

21 MS. KEMPER: Thanks. 

22 MS. GUTIERREZ: Hello. My name is Karen 
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1 Graimey. I am a member of the Georgia Sierra 

2 Club, living in Savannah, Georgia. I'm sorry I 

3 cannot be there to testify in person but I 

4 appreciate the opportunity to have my testimony 

5 read. 

6 A little over 3 weeks ago, the Georgia 

7 coast experienced dramatically high king tides 

8 which flooded roads and property for 3 days. The 

9 causeway to Tybee Island near Savannah was 

10 completely submerged. While it is true that 

11 tidal flooding events are nothing new, they are 

12 becoming much more severe and more frequent as 

13 the sea level rises. 

14 The Union of Concerned Scientists 

15 published a study last year which examines the 

16 problem, with Tybee being one of the locations 

17 looked at. According to the study, tidal 

18 flooding occurred on Tybee 5 or fewer times per 

19 year, 40 years ago. Today it occurs around 10 

20 times a year. They project that by 2030 it will 

21 happen 30 times a year, and by 2045, Tybee can 

22 expect to endure floods 100 times a year. 
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1 It is hard to imagine anyone wanting to 

2 live in Tybee under those conditions. 

3 Recognizing that all the low-lying areas along 

4 her coast will be experiencing a similar increase 

5 in flooding, one can only conclude that Georgia's 

6 coastal communities are headed for serious 

7 trouble. 

8 If this isn't bad enough, consider the 

9 likelihood that sea level will submerge large 

10 portions of that ecological and valuable salt 

11 marshes of the Georgia coast, a prospect I find 

12 painful to contemplate. Sadly, the coastal flood 

13 land project projected by scientists is 

14 unavoidable. If greenhouse gas emissions were 

15 miraculously stopped today it would not prevent 

16 the 100-flood-per-year scenario from occurring on 

17 Tybee Island 30 years from now. But if we do 

18 everything we can to eliminate greenhouse gas 

19 emissions we might be able to prevent an even 

20 worse situation. 

21 I am testifying today to let you know 

22 that the political leaders in Georgia, who are 
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1 fighting the implementation of the Clean Power 

2 Plan are failing to represent vital interests of 

3 their own citizens. All of us on the coast who 

4 are aware of the problem are counting on the EPA 

5 to issue and enforce a strong Federal 

6 Implementation Plan which will achieve the 

7 maximum possible reductions under the framework 

8 of the Clean Power Plan. 

9 Thank you. 

10 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. I just have one 

11 clarifying. You referenced a study on tide 

12 frequency increase. You may not have it with 

13 you, and I understand you're speaking on somebody 

14 else's behalf, but to the extent that that can be 

15 sent to -- the actual reference for the study can 

16 be sent to us, that's helpful. 

17 MS. GUTIERREZ: Okay. Yes, I'll let her 

18 know. 

19 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Any other 

20 questions? 

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MS. KEMPER: Reverend Flippin. 
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1 REV. FLIPPIN: Yes. Thank you so much 

2 for this opportunity. My name is Reverend 

3 William Edward Flippin, Jr. I represent the 

4 pastor of the Emmanuel Lutheran Church here in 

5 southwest Atlanta, but also the Georgia NAACP, 

6 where I serve as third vice president. Thank you 

7 so much for this opportunity to offer this 

8 comment as a stakeholder for the Sierra Club. 

9 I am here today to speak in support of 

10 EPA's Clean Power Plan and comment on the 

11 recently proposed Federal Implementation Plan, 

12 particularly as we know that the Clean Power Plan 

13 would prevent approximately 100- to 200,000 

14 asthmatic attacks and up to 6- to 10,000 

15 premature deaths. 

16 But more on a practical note, I come to 

17 you with a quote by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. 

18 He says that "when machines and computers, profit 

19 motives and property rights are considered more 

20 important than people, the giant triplets of 

21 racism, militarism, and economic exploitation are 

22 incapable of being conquered." The Apostle Paul 
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1 even says that "we wrestle not against flesh and 

2 blood but principalities in high places." So we 

3 can have many, many hearings, we can have many, 

4 many discussions, but I believe that many of the 

5 realities of the things are systemic and 

6 sometimes beyond our control. 

7 But one thing that I do know is that it's 

8 important that we value people, because we are 

9 all caught up in the same mutuality, in the human 

10 condition of self-respect in our cities, even the 

11 city of Atlanta, the city that says it's too busy 

12 to hate. We children that are the products of 

13 our inner-city that are dying for lack of health 

14 care, the environment, that within the African 

15 American and minority communities you see waste 

16 and dumps and pollutants in our previous waters. 

17 And I come to you that I believe that 

18 these are worth saving, both restoring and worth 

19 the price of redemption and even the cost of 

20 crucifixion. 

21 These are the growing passionate moments 

22 on the battlefield. These are the still waters 
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1 that we were talking about. And in listening, as 

2 you are, we are called to justice and restore the 

3 communities that are affected by so many systemic 

4 realities. 

5 I believe that Dr. Martin Luther King, 

6 Jr., and many others would be crying out against 

7 any coal-fired plants which produces dangerous 

8 pollutants into the air and drain our waters. 

9 Even before the first official Earth Day in 1970, 

10 King believed in environmental justice, the 

11 shaping of the beloved community, that we believe 

12 that God created a perfect community to a point 

13 that he said that it was -- God said it was good, 

14 but that we have a responsibility as humans to 

15 cry out for the strength of the journey, to be 

16 cognizant of the single mom trying to survive on 

17 welfare with three kids and getting an education, 

18 a spouse who's been working long hours and trying 

19 to hold the family together. And I believe that 

20 we can and will be, based on the human condition, 

21 sustainers of God's perfect and just creation and 

22 this reality of environmental justice. 
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1 Thank you. 

2 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. I wanted to ask 

3 you, before you move, to spell your first and 

4 last name for the court reporter. 

5 REV. FIPPIN: Sure. Sure. Sure. First 

6 name, William, W-i-l-l-i-a-m, E., Flippin, 

7 F-l-i-p-p-i-n. I definitely want you to 

8 distinguish between me and my dad, who is a known 

9 person in the city -- Junior. 

10 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

11 REV. FLIPPIN: Thank you. Thank you so 

12 much. 

13 MS. KEMPER: Rodney Russell and Paul 

14 Galetti. 

15 Yes, just a reminder. Any written copies 

16 you have, the court reporter will take. 

17 And then just begin when you're ready. 

18 MR. GALETTI: My name is Paul Galetti, 

19 P-a-u-l G-a-l-e-t-t-i. I'm a student at 

20 Appalachian State University in Boone, North 

21 Carolina. 

22 North Carolina has been one of the many 
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1 vocal opponents against the Clean Power Plan. 

2 They have created a plan that would not cut 

3 emissions to accepted levels until 2030. This 

4 would force the EPA to step in, and at the rate 

5 climate change is occurring, we don't have the 15 

6 years to wait for that plan to work. This type 

7 of plan would also discourage renewable energy 

8 from being adopted as quickly as with the Clean 

9 Power Act. A business argument exists for this 

10 plan as well. 

11 North Carolina is on the rebound after an 

12 evolving economy and taking a lead in creating 

13 new green jobs that offer an opportunity for 

14 growth. Taking advantage of advanced energy 

15 technologies and services would be the low-cost, 

16 high-growth route to the Clean Power Plan working 

17 for North Carolina. Continually allowing plants 

18 to spew endless emissions into the air does not 

19 show America to be the leader in reducing 

20 emissions and preserving our planet, which is the 

21 leader we need to be. 

22 That's all. 
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1 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

2 MR. RUSSELL: Thank you for the 

3 opportunity to speak today. My name is Rodney J. 

4 Russell and I am the President with the Lambda 

5 Chapter for the American Association of Blacks in 

6 Energy. Today I am here representing our 

7 chapter. 

8 AABE is a national association of energy 

9 professionals bounded and dedicated to ensure 

10 African Americans and other minorities have a 

11 voice in the development of energy policy and 

12 related environmental issues. Our chapter 

13 provided comments last year in regards to the 

14 proposed ruling. We still have significant 

15 concerns about EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 

16 We want clean air for all of our communities. 

17 However, we believe any approach must be 

18 balanced, fair, and take into consideration the 

19 impacts to communities, economic development, 

20 health, jobs, and the price of electricity. The 

21 rule, as proposed, will significantly increase 

22 electric costs across the country, and 
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1 particularly in Georgia. Those who cannot afford 

2 these increases will be impacted the most. We 

3 must find a fair and balanced way to achieve the 

4 objective of the proposed ruling in a manner that 

5 is consistent and cost-effective. 

6 Currently, generating units are 

7 dispatched based primarily on the economics to 

8 ensure the most cost-effective generating units 

9 are dispatched first. This rule appears to 

10 largely eliminate economic dispatch in favor of 

11 environmental dispatch, without regard to cost. 

12 For example, to develop the state13 specific goal, EPA assumes the utility will shift 

14 generation from coal units to natural gas units, 

15 and EPA assumes natural gas units across the 

16 country will run at a 75 percent capacity factor 

17 or more. EPA must understand that if those 

18 natural gas units are the most cost-effective 

19 way, they would already be running at higher 

20 levels. 

21 EPA also assumes that generation will be 

22 shifted to renewable energy -- wind, solar, and 
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1 possibly biomass. While AABE supports renewable 

2 energy, it must be cost-effective. By 

3 eliminating the focus of the cost of energy 

4 resources, this plan will likely increase natural 

5 gas prices. I am no economist but basic 

6 principles of supply and demand dictates the 

7 increased demand for natural gas will increase 

8 natural gas prices. Additionally, the cost of 

9 goods and services will drive more industry and 

10 manufacturing jobs overseas. We have to be 

11 careful to avoid unintended consequences by the 

12 well-intended. 

13 The bottom line? Higher electricity 

14 bills, higher heating bills, and more expensive 

15 goods and services and fewer jobs. All of these 

16 have a disproportionate impact on those who are 

17 least able to manage these impacts, that is, our 

18 small business owners, and families and 

19 individuals who are on fixed or low income. 

20 We need to make progress on climate 

21 change goals and commitments, but we must find 

22 solutions that minimizes the risk of cost 
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1 increases and do not eat the cost for those least 

2 able to beat the barrel. 

3 Again, we support a holistic approach to 

4 leading the rising demand of electricity. While 

5 it is not a silver bullet, broad deployment of 

6 energy efficiency measures will be important to 

7 reducing impact of rising utility bills. AABE 

8 strongly supports energy efficiency and serves as 

9 a resource on this issue for energy consumers, 

10 especially in underserved communities. But we 

11 cannot do it alone. Energy efficiency measures 

12 and education must be made available to small 

13 businesses and low- and fixed-income families and 

14 individuals because these are the ones that will 

15 benefit the most from the energy savings. 

16 We believe the best strategy will strike 

17 a balance between cost-effective emission 

18 reductions and economic growth and prosperity for 

19 everyone. The proposed ruling does not achieve 

20 this objective. 

21 Thank you very much for the opportunity 

22 to provide my comments. 
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1 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Could you spell 

2 both your first and last names? 

3 MR. RUSSELL: My first name is 

4 R-o-d-n-e-y, middle initial J, last name is 

5 R-u-s-s-e-l-l. 

6 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

7 Leanne Townsend and Djuan Coleon, and I 

8 apologize to anybody for mispronouncing their 

9 names. I'm doing the best I can. 

10 If you'll begin by stating your first and 

11 last name and spelling it for the court reporter. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MS. TOWNSEND: My name is Leanne 

14 Townsend. It's L-e-a-n-n-e T-o-w-n-s-e-n-d. And 

15 I'm here as a mother and a resident of the state 

16 of Alabama to represent my great state. I have 

17 two children and a nephew that I raise most of 

18 the time who suffers from asthma, and I feel 

19 like, as a mom, it's incumbent on me to teach my 

20 kids to stay involved, and to stay active, and to 

21 stay aware of what's happening in the world 

22 around them. And so that's why I came here 
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1 today, to be sure that I was a part of the 

2 process of the hearing, and stating my support 

3 for the Clean Energy Act. 

4 Having worked around politics in Alabama 

5 for a long time there's one thing I know, and 

6 that is the power of the energy companies in 

7 Alabama, in the political sphere, and I know that 

8 left to their own devices with no federal 

9 protections in place, they may not work as hard 

10 as they could to protect the clean air and water 

11 that we need in Alabama. I appreciate the plan 

12 proposed by the FEC and I'm here to support it. 

13 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

14 MR. COLEON: Good afternoon. My name is 

15 Djuan Coleon. That's D-j-u-a-n, last name 

16 C-o-l-e-o-n, and I'm with Project Urban Renewable 

17 Energy. And also, I just wanted to say that, 

18 first of all, I wanted to quote Dr. King, because 

19 I used to work at the Martin Luther King Center 

20 here in Atlanta before I started my nonprofit, 

21 Project Urban Renewable Energy, and the whole 

22 point or purpose of my organization was to try to 
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1 help further the beloved community. 

2 Dr. King said, "We must passionately and 

3 conceivably raise the gulf between our scientific 

4 progress and our moral progress. One of the 

5 great problems of mankind is that we suffer from 

6 a poverty of spirit which stands in glaring 

7 contrast to our scientific and technological 

8 abundance. The richer we have become materially, 

9 the poorer we have become morally and 

10 spiritually." 

11 And I think that's where we are now, as I 

12 come in and applaud the President for making this 

13 first step with the Clean Power Plan, to try to 

14 address the technological advances that we have 

15 as a society. We also are in the midst with how 

16 do we deal with the least of these in the 

17 vulnerable communities. My mother-in-law, she 

18 was able to get her house completely retrofitted 

19 in 2011, under President Obama's plan, to help 

20 senior citizens who have issues with their home. 

21 She was able to get her windows more energy 

22 efficient, her heating system repaired. She's on 
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1 a fixed income. 

2 And so when we look at advances with 

3 technology as far as with solar, wind, geotherm, 

4 my concern is, yes, we should further put the 

5 press on so that we can deal with the 

6 disproportionate amount of toxic and hazardous 

7 wastes that are in vulnerable communities. EPA 

8 studies have shown that that 9 out of 10 of the 

9 EPA regions have shown disproportionate amount of 

10 toxic and hazardous waste located in black and 

11 brown communities. 

12 But for someone like my mother-in-law, 

13 she's on a fixed income. My thing would be I'm 

14 out in the community, I see what people are 

15 actually dealing with. I don't know if she would 

16 be able to deal with the transition unless there 

17 is a significant amount of government help. 

18 I also recently went to Africatown in 

19 Mobile, which is a historic site where the last 

20 known slave ship came to America, and they are 

21 facing a lot of previous pollution issues with 

22 the paper industry, they're dealing with Canadian 
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1 tar sands being shipped from Canada to the port. 

2 But the main issue that you're seeing is that the 

3 people don't have the income and the ability to 

4 be able to deal with the situations they have. A 

5 lot of people down there don't have home 

6 insurance on their house. It may only cost $400 

7 to put home insurance on a house, and so they 

8 can't even quality for the government subsidies 

9 to help build and retrofit their house because 

10 they can't afford the insurance. 

11 So as we think about the Clean Power 

12 Plan, and we think about how we need to make this 

13 advance to created a beloved community, we also 

14 have to think about, realistically, how that's 

15 going to affect all stakeholders, because we 

16 can't make the assumption that everybody will 

17 just figure it out and they'll just be able to 

18 get on board and make the changes. 

19 I'm out in the streets and I'm seeing the 

20 people that are dealing with the issues that they 

21 already have. It's not that they don't want to 

22 have access to new technology. It's just that 
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1 they're struggling to keep up with what we have 

2 now. So we have to make sure that exchanges are 

3 affordable and be able to affect and help all 

4 people, from the top to the bottom, as Dr. King 

5 would have us do so. 

6 MS. KEMPER: Questions? 

7 [No audible response.] 

8 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

9 Mark Berry. Whenever you're ready you 

10 may state your first and last name and spell it 

11 for the court reporter. 

12 MR. BERRY: Okay. My name is Mark Berry. 

13 M-a-r-k B-e-r-r-y. And I am the Vice President 

14 of Environmental Affairs at Georgia Power, a 

15 subsidiary of Southern Company and Georgia's 

16 largest electricity supplier. Southern Company's 

17 subsidiaries include three other vertically 

18 integrated, regulated electric utilities -- 

19 Alabama Power, Gulf Power, and Mississippi Power 

20 -- as well as Southern Power, which owns 

21 generation assets and sells electricity in the 

22 wholesale market. 
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1 As a company, we are committed to 

2 providing clean, safe, reliable, and affordable 

3 electricity to 4.5 million customers by 

4 maintaining a diverse generation fleet. My 

5 comments today are on behalf of Southern Company 

6 and its subsidiaries. 

7 Southern Company and the nation's 

8 generation fleets are already changing due to 

9 numerous environmental rules and economic 

10 considerations. Amid these changes, maintaining 

11 reliable and affordable energy service is a 

12 critical ingredient to our states' growth and 

13 economic well-being. 

14 The Clean Power Plan, however, 

15 jeopardizes future reliable and affordable energy 

16 service. EPA's own analysis of the Clean Power 

17 Plan predicts severe consequences to the 

18 Southeast, including the premature closing of 

19 more than 9,000 megawatts of fossil fuel-fired 

20 units, representing 20 percent of Southern 

21 Company's generating capacity. These premature 

22 retirements would result in significant impacts 
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1 to both our customers and our employees. EPA 

2 must get the federal plan and model trading rules 

3 correct. Today we offer comments regarding four 

4 concerns. 

5 First, EPA should provide the public an 

6 opportunity to comment on state-specific federal 

7 plan proposals. EPA must evaluate numerous 

8 state-specific considerations prior to finalizing 

9 a state's federal plan, including the remaining 

10 useful lives of the sources; the unreasonable 

11 cost or physical impossibility of controlling CO2 

12 emissions; and reliability implications that may 

13 make a less stringent standard or a longer 

14 compliance schedule reasonable. 

15 An accurate evaluation can only be 

16 completed by affording stakeholders the 

17 opportunity to provide input to EPA on their 

18 unique knowledge of the state's electric 

19 generation fleet and transmission grid. We 

20 strongly urge EPA to allow for stakeholder input 

21 on state-specific federal plan proposals. 

22 Second, EPA and states should develop 
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1 plans best suited for the citizens in each state. 

2 However, EPA plans to finalize only one federal 

3 plan pathway, either rate-based or mass-based, 

4 with limited compliance options. EPA is ignoring 

5 the negative impacts certain federal plan 

6 pathways may have on a state. We urge EPA to 

7 retain both rate- and mass-based pathways for 

8 federal plans that may be issued to individual 

9 states and to broaden the available compliance 

10 options to resemble the options available to 

11 states in the Clean Power Plan. 

12 Third, EPA must adequately address 

13 reliability concerns in the proposed federal plan 

14 and model trade rules. EPA's decision not to 

15 include a reliability assessment and a 

16 reliability safety mechanism is irresponsible. 

17 In fact, EPA's proposed federal plan does not 

18 meet the same standards for addressing 

19 reliability that EPA requires in the Clean Power 

20 Plan. In the proposal, EPA states that "the very 

21 nature of the federal plan, in which affected 

22 EGUs can obtain allowances or credits if needs, 
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1 supports reliability." This reasoning is based 

2 on an allowance or credit market that may or may 

3 not materialize. This is an unacceptable and 

4 unproven mechanism to address reliability 

5 concerns. 

6 Finally, EPA should not attempt to 

7 double-regulate new, unaffected sources through 

8 Section 111(d). Suggesting that a federal plan 

9 or model trading rule would double-regulate new 

10 sources in order to achieve EPA's best system of 

11 emission reduction for existing sources is 

12 unprecedented and not allowed under the Clean Air 

13 Act. 

14 Southern Company appreciates EPA's 

15 consideration of these concerns, and we look 

16 forward to EPA addressing them to ensure reliable 

17 and affordable energy service remains throughout 

18 the Southeast. 

19 Thank you. 

20 MS. KEMPER: Any questions? 

21 DR. MITCHELL: Yeah. I had a clarifying 

22 question. On the first point, did I understand 
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1 you to mean that if a FIP were to be imposed in a 

2 state that the public should have an ability to 

3 review and comment? 

4 MR. BERRY: That is correct. 

5 DR. MITCHELL: Okay. Thank you. 

6 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. I appreciate 

7 your comments. 

8 MR. BERRY: Thank you so much. 

9 MS. KEMPER: And if you have written 

10 comments and you're able to leave them with the 

11 court reporter that would be very helpful. 

12 MR. BERRY: We will do that. Thank you. 

13 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

14 We will take another short break and 

15 reconvene around four o'clock. 

16 [Break taken from 3:47 to 4:29 p.m.] 

17 MS. KEMPER: So I'd like to call up Sam 

18 Collier and Joshua Hanthorn as our next speakers. 

19 Just a few helpful hints on speaking. If 

20 you'll both be seated at the speakers' table, and 

21 when it's your turn to speak state your name and 

22 then spell both your first and last names, and if 
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1 you have any written comments that you're 

2 prepared to share, the court reporter is here to 

3 take them. You have 5 minutes and there is a 

4 timer here that Colin is operating. So you'll 

5 get a green light, a yellow light -- that's your 

6 1 minutes warning -- and then the red light means 

7 what it normally means, which is to stop. 

8 So with that, please. We can begin with 

9 him. 

10 MR. COLLIER: Okay. My name is Sam 

11 Collier. That's S-a-m, last name is 

12 C-o-l-l-i-e-r, and I live in Atlanta, Georgia. 

13 I'm here basically in four roles. First 

14 of all I'm a real estate investor and have 

15 investments throughout the metro Atlanta area and 

16 beyond, and secondly I'm here as a rate-payer of 

17 Georgia power. Thirdly, I’m here as a 

18 shareholder of Georgia Power, or Southern 

19 Company, which is a holding company for Georgia 

20 Power, and fourth, I'm here as a parent. 

21 I want to applaud the EPA for the Clean 

22 Power Plan, and in every one of my four roles I'm 
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1 very happy that this action is being taken. As a 

2 real estate investor, it is very important that 

3 we have a stable climate, that people don't start 

4 moving from our areas, based on strange weather 

5 patterns, overall climatic considerations, and we 

6 do not want the instability in the real estate 

7 community for that cause. 

8 As a rate-payer, I certain want low 

9 rates, but I don't want low rates at the risk of 

10 people's health and the stability of the climate. 

11 So I want rates that embody the cost of 

12 electricity. I prefer to have clean electricity. 

13 I'm tired of the double standard of posing 

14 regulations to protect our health and clean the 

15 energy supply and then saying that cleaner forms 

16 are too expensive. It's just a false dichotomy 

17 and I'm really tired of hearing that. 

18 Third, as a shareholder I have made 

19 specific requests of Southern Company, that they 

20 report their carbon through the Carbon Disclosure 

21 Project, which they stopped doing in 2013 because 

22 the Carbon Disclosure Project went to letter 
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1 grade and they got a bad grade. Basically, 

2 Carbon Disclosure Project is a global system to 

3 account on how industries across the globe are 

4 not only dealing with carbon but their management 

5 structure, and how it's able to give them 

6 transparency and enough sense so that the rest of 

7 us know which companies to invest in, based on 

8 how well their management structure can deal with 

9 a carbon-constrained world. 

10 So I'm very concerned that the Southern 

11 Company, which talks a very good game about clean 

12 energy -- and also it's doing many good things. 

13 I've been very happy with some of the things, 

14 particularly the Southern Power subsidiary has 

15 been doing to bring clean energy online, but it's 

16 not fast enough and it's really distressing that 

17 after talking a big game not only do they not 

18 report the carbon but they oppose this plan or 

19 try to weaken it or try to delay it, and I'm very 

20 upset with Southern Company for talking out of 

21 both sides of their mouth, essentially, and 

22 delaying -- making a delay tactic and failing to 
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1 report includable protocol, while at the same 

2 time saying that they're doing everything right. 

3 I think this Clean Power Plan is a good 

4 start. I think we will need to listen to the 

5 scientists and do exactly what it takes to reduce 

6 carbon. And so I think that we will need to do 

7 things beyond this, and I'm sure that a stronger 

8 plan was attempted, as best one could, given the 

9 backlash from the industry. But the industry, in 

10 my mind, really needs to understand that -- and 

11 this is where my fourth role comes in, as a 

12 parent. I do not care for anyone who disregards 

13 my children's future, in terms of having a stable 

14 climate that I've enjoyed through my 60 years. 

15 And I am ready to call out anyone who tries to, 

16 for short-term profit, delay the inevitable low17 carbon world that we are seeking. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

20 MR. HANTHORN: Hello. My name is Joshua 

21 Hanthorn, J-o-s-h-u-a H-a-n-t-h-o-r-n, and I 

22 live in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm here today to 
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1 speak in support of EPA's Clean Power Plan and 

2 comment on recent proposed Federal Implementation 

3 Plan as a war veteran. 

4 A civil war rages on in Syria. We must 

5 come to grips with that fact, the fact that 

6 climate change was a major factor in the buildup 

7 of the conflict. Reference the study proceedings 

8 of the National Academy of Sciences compiled 

9 statistics. Researchers in that study 

10 determined, after examining meteorological data, 

11 natural bearability alone was unlikely to account 

12 for the trends in wind, rain, and heat that led 

13 to the massive drought. This severe drought, 

14 worsened by warming climate, drove Syrian farmers 

15 to abandon their crops and flock to cities, 

16 helping trigger a civil war that killed hundreds 

17 of thousands of people. 

18 We are also finally coming to terms with 

19 the effect war has on military personnel. If the 

20 next President decides that the military will 

21 intervene in such conflicts in the future, our 

22 battle with PTSD, war-related injuries, and death 
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1 will continue. 

2 Syria is a warning sign that the world 

3 needs to take climate change seriously. The 

4 Clean Power Plan is a step in the right direction 

5 as it is the most significant action taken by a 

6 President on climate change. 

7 Mitigating climate change should be this 

8 country's number one priority because we are not 

9 ready to take on the adaptation strategies needed 

10 when climate change takes full effect. We need 

11 strong control mechanisms to mitigate climate 

12 change, ensure the carbon pollution standards in 

13 the model federal plan achieve at least the 

14 pollution reduction promised in the final Clean 

15 Power Plan and keep a watchful eye on state 

16 agencies, particularly in your region. 

17 I'm predicting that there will be a time 

18 that a state or power company will find loopholes 

19 in the plan. I have seen the suits Georgia 

20 Department of National Resources wears and they 

21 aren't buying them from Target, so something 

22 tells me public interest is not their top 
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1 priority. Particularly in the South, the South 

2 has become the largest exporter of wood pellets, 

3 painted as green energy. These wood pellets come 

4 from clear-cutting our national forest and power 

5 companies can claim burning them as a form of 

6 clean energy. EPA should prepare for such 

7 loopholes now, and make sure that the purpose of 

8 the Clean Power Plan is still carried forward 

9 through 2030, because let's face it -- it's 

10 states and corporations that ignore or deny 

11 climate change that are the biggest national 

12 security threats. 

13 That is all I have to say. Thank you for 

14 your time. 

15 MS. KEMPER: I have a clarifying 

16 question. You referenced a National Academy of 

17 Science study. 

18 MR. HANTHORN: Yes. 

19 MS. KEMPER: Would you make sure that we 

20 get the reference to the study, as a part of our 

21 public comments? 

22 MR. HANTHORN: Yes. No problem. 
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1 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. Any further 

2 clarification? 

3 [No audible response.] 

4 MS. KEMPER: Thank you both. 

5 Seeing that we have no more commenters at 

6 this time, we will be taking another short break. 

7 Just to let folks know that we will take 

8 a longer break at five o'clock that will go from 

9 five until six. If we have speakers between now 

10 and five we will have them speak. 

11 ATTENDEE: There is one coming. 

12 MS. KEMPER: We do have a speaker coming, 

13 so we're now off break. 

14 [Laughter.] 

15 MS. KEMPER: We're reconvening. 

16 [Pause.] 

17 MS. KEMPER: Green means go, yellow means 

18 you have a minute left, and red means stop. When 

19 you're ready to begin, just state your name and 

20 spell it for the court reporter. Thank you. 

21 MS. DUTTON: Hi. My name is Nina Dutton, 

22 N-i-n-a D-u-t-t-o-n. I am from Washington, D.C., 
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1 but I have been living in Atlanta pretty much for 

2 the last 8 years, and I am a member of the 

3 Georgia Sierra Club. Professionally I work in 

4 public health research. I got a master's degree 

5 in environmental health. But I'm here today to 

6 speak in support of EPA's Clean Power Plan and to 

7 comment on the recently proposed Federal 

8 Implementation Plan. 

9 I guess you will have it on record but I 

10 also made testimony in a report of the draft 

11 overall Clean Power Plan in 2014. Before that I 

12 prepared a lot more and I wrote a whole little 

13 speech. This year I am improvising and at least 

14 you will be able to know that it is from the 

15 heart. 

16 Okay. So, as you all know, the Clean 

17 Power Plan is meant to reduce greenhouse gas 

18 emissions from existing fossil fuel-fired power 

19 plants, and not only would the Clean Power Plan 

20 set goals for each state to do that but, in doing 

21 so, these states would also be cutting down on 

22 other pollutants coming from the energy sector. 
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1 This is really important from a public health 

2 perspective, as I'm sure you've heard today. 

3 By regulating these plants, the Clean 

4 Power Plan will lead to significant climate and 

5 public health benefits for everyone. EPA has 

6 estimated that by 2030 the Clean Power Plan will 

7 prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and up to 6,600 

8 premature deaths annually. That is a lot, and as 

9 far as side benefits go, that's really 

10 impressive. And if those are just the side 

11 benefits, the main intention, which would be to 

12 curb the effects of the energy sector on climate 

13 change, that's also really important. 

14 As other people today have also spoken 

15 about, climate change is a human rights issue. 

16 It's a health issue. It's an equity issue. 

17 Communities across the globe are dealing with the 

18 devastating impacts of climate disruption, 

19 including families displaced from their homes due 

20 to extreme weather events, and that's especially 

21 in the news these days because of the Syrian 

22 refugee situation, but there are refugees all the 
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1 time and that number of displaced people is only 

2 expected to increase. And not only does that 

3 take a toll on those individuals but also our 

4 societies as a whole, to have to deal with a 

5 peoples of that nature. 

6 The Clean Power Plan does provide great 

7 opportunities for economic growth and sustainable 

8 development. Investing in clean energy will 

9 create jobs and fuel economic growth in our 

10 country. Considering that a lot of health issues 

11 and health disparities in our country and in the 

12 world are very, very closely tied with economic 

13 disparities, I think that if we can develop 

14 equitable energy solutions that are not only 

15 equitable in terms of the effects 

16 environmentally, in terms of pollution that can 

17 affect health, if these solutions can also be 

18 equitable in terms of healthy forms of economic 

19 development and improvement of living conditions 

20 for everyone, that would be ideal. 

21 It is -- so, does that yellow light mean 

22 I have a minute left? 
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1 MS. KEMPER: Yes. 

2 MS. DUTTON: So I'm mainly here to say 

3 that because the Federal Implementation -- sorry, 

4 because the Clean Power Plan does set goals for 

5 each state, these goals are doable for each 

6 state, and I want to let you know that I don't 

7 want the states to derail your work. I don't 

8 want the fossil fuel industries or the nuclear 

9 energy industries to derail your work. This is 

10 all important and it is doable and it can be 

11 done. 

12 If the states do not have -- if the 

13 states fail to adopt and implement adequate plans 

14 for themselves, EPA is required to issue and 

15 enforce a Federal Implementation Plan and to make 

16 sure that the federal plan is strong and just. 

17 EPA should and must (1) ensure the carbon 

18 pollution standards and model federal plan 

19 achieve the pollution reductions promised in the 

20 final Clean Power Plan, or even further 

21 reductions; (2) ensure that states address 

22 potential carbon pollution for new power plants 
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1 to achieve overall electric sector reductions in 

2 carbon pollution; (3) protect low-income 

3 consumers by maximizing utilities incentives to 

4 invest in energy efficiency, which lowers 

5 household energy bills; (4) ensure that the model 

6 federal plan protects and benefits minority, low7 income, and indigenous communities who have long 

8 borne the brunt of fossil fuel production and may 

9 be most likely to experience the impacts of 

10 climate change; and (5) resist giveaways of 

11 allowances to the most polluting sources. 

12 The Clean Power Plan, if allowed to be 

13 implemented in the way that it is intended, will 

14 clean up our air and address climate disruption 

15 while also modernizing how we power our country 

16 and our economy, starting innovation and creating 

17 thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in new 

18 investments. This is a great opportunity for 

19 positive change and I hope that can be realized. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. KEMPER: Thank you very much. 

22 We are at another break. The hearing is 
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1 officially recessed until six o'clock when we 

2 will reconvene. 

3 [Recess taken from 4:51 to 6:08 p.m.] 

4 Evening Session 

5 MS. GETTLE: Good evening. My name is 

6 Jeananne Gettle and I'm chair of this evening's 

7 session of the public hearing. Thank you for 

8 coming today. 

9 Joining me on the panel are Carol Kemper, 

10 also from EPA here in Region 4, and Jan Cortalou 

11 from our headquarters Office of Air Quality 

12 Planning and Standards. We also have the court 

13 reporter in the room who will be recording this 

14 set of sessions. 

15 MS. KEMPER: Fossil fuel-fired power 

16 plants are the largest source of U.S. carbon 

17 dioxide emissions, or carbon pollution, 

18 accounting for 31 percent of U.S. total 

19 greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing carbon 

20 pollution from power plants is an essential step 

21 in lessening the impacts of climate change and 

22 providing a more certain future for our 
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1 environment, our health, and future generations. 

2 We are here today to listen to your 

3 comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 

4 model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 

5 Existing Power Plants. 

6 On October 23, 2015, the Environmental 

7 Protection Agency published, in the Federal 

8 Register, its proposed federal plan to implement 

9 emission guidelines for power plants under 

10 Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 

11 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 

12 effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 

13 affected power plants that began construction on 

14 or before January 8, 2014. 

15 The federal plan and model trading rules 

16 demonstrate a readily available path forward for 

17 Clean Power Plan implementation, and presents 

18 flexible, affordable implementation options for 

19 states. The model rules provide a cost-effective 

20 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

21 the EPA and make it easy for states and power 

22 plants to use emissions trading. It does the 
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1 heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 

2 model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 

3 implement the federal plan in any state that does 

4 not submit an approvable plan. 

5 This proposal includes four discrete 

6 proposed actions: (1) a rate-based federal plan 

7 for each state with affected EGUs; (2) a mass8 based federal plan for each state with affected 

9 EGUs; (3) a rate-based model trading rule for 

10 potential use by any state; and (4) a mass-based 

11 model trading rule for potential use by any 

12 state. 

13 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

14 the same levels of emissions performance as 

15 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

16 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

17 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

18 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

19 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

20 in the emission guidelines. 

21 In those states where a federal plan may 

22 be required, a final federal plan will implement 
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1 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

2 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 

3 would not require additional control requirements 

4 or impose additional costs. Even where a federal 

5 plan is put in place for a particular state, that 

6 state will still be able to submit a plan which, 

7 if approved, will allow the state and its sources 

8 to exit the federal plan. 

9 States may take delegation of 

10 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

11 order to become the primary implementers, or 

12 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

13 the implementation of a portion of the federal 

14 plan. States operating under a federal plan may 

15 adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 

16 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 

17 benefit of power generators and consumers. 

18 The proposal also includes a model rule 

19 for those states that are developing their own 

20 state plans. The EPA intends to finalize both 

21 the rate-based and mass-based model trading rules 

22 in the summer of 2016. A state program that 
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1 adheres to the model trading rule provisions 

2 specified in this rulemaking, when final, would 

3 be presumptively approvable. 

4 There are stand-alone portions of the 

5 model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 

6 measurement, and verification procedures for 

7 emission rate credits that would be approvable 

8 even if a state adopted an approach that differs 

9 in other respects from the model rule. 

10 In addition, the proposal contains a 

11 finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 

12 implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 

13 affected EGUs located in Indian country. CO2 

14 emission performance rates for these facilities 

15 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. Also in 

16 the proposal is information on how the EPA will 

17 reach out to communities throughout the comment 

18 period and an overview of the actions that EPA is 

19 taking to ensure that vulnerable communities are 

20 not being disproportionately impacted by this 

21 rulemaking. 

22 If you would like more details on the 
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1 proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 

2 the registration desk. 

3 Before we get started, I'd like to go 

4 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

5 that will help to make today's hearing run 

6 smoothly. First, please be sure you've checked 

7 in at the registration desk, even if you are not 

8 planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 

9 speak online or by phone but haven't told us that 

10 you are here, please step out to the registration 

11 desk and let the EPA staff know that you've 

12 arrived. 

13 I will call speakers up in pairs. When 

14 your name is called, please come to the speakers' 

15 table at the front of the room. When I call on 

16 you to speak, please state your name, and spell 

17 it for the court reporter. Please spell both 

18 your first and last names. Your comments will be 

19 transcribed and included in the record of 

20 comments on the proposed rule. 

21 Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 

22 comments. We have a timer light to help you know 
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1 how much time you have left to speak. When the 

2 light turns from green to yellow, that means you 

3 have 1 minute remaining. When it turns red, 

4 that's a signal that you are at 5 minutes and it 

5 is time to stop. When you are finished speaking, 

6 please remain at the table until the person next 

7 to you has completed his or her testimony. 

8 We are here to listen to you today. 

9 However, a panel member may ask questions to 

10 clarify your comments. 

11 I will then call up the next pair of 

12 speakers, and so on. If you've brought a copy of 

13 your written testimony, please give that to the 

14 court reporter before you leave this room. We 

15 will put any written comments submitted today in 

16 the official docket for the proposed rule. 

17 We also have comment cards available at 

18 the registration desk, if you would like to 

19 submit additional written comments today. If you 

20 want to comment in writing later, stop by the 

21 materials table near the registration desk and 

22 pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 
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1 written comments. Comments must be received by 

2 January 21, 2016. 

3 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 

4 much consideration to comments we receive in 

5 writing as we do to comments we receive at public 

6 hearings like this one. So if you have more 

7 comments that you would like to provided the EPA, 

8 please submit them by the comment period 

9 deadline. Your comments will be reviewed. 

10 If you have any questions during this 

11 evening, please see the staff at the registration 

12 desk, and someone will assist you. 

13 Thank you again for taking the time today 

14 to share your comments on EPA's proposal, and 

15 we'll get started now. 

16 MS. GETTLE: Bob James. You can begin 

17 any time. 

18 MR. JAMES: Okay. My name is Bob James 

19 and I am here on behalf of myself as a citizen 

20 but I'm also affiliated as a volunteer with the 

21 Citizens Climate Lobby, and I am here to express 

22 my appreciation for the fact that the EPA has 
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1 done something very important, I think, for the 

2 nation and the world, to show leadership in 

3 reducing greenhouse emissions. 

4 I am also here to express concern about 

5 what is the most effective way to accomplish 

6 that, and I have specific policy that the 

7 Citizens Climate Lobby does endorse, that I think 

8 does a very good job of doing. It's called the 

9 Carbon Fee and Dividend Policy. It is a policy 

10 that will not only reduce the greenhouse 

11 emissions but it will also increase economic 

12 activity. 

13 It is similar to the Pigovian taxation 

14 method in that it's assessing a fee or a tax -- 

15 we prefer to call it a fee since it's revenue16 neutral -- on the social costs of greenhouse 

17 emissions, which, of course, as you laid out as 

18 the reasons for the EPA Clean Power Plan, having 

19 to do with all of the health reasons as well as 

20 environmental hazards. 

21 The plan itself is assessing a fee at the 

22 point of production and at the border for those 
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1 countries that do not have a similar type policy. 

2 For that reason, since it's two-sided, it 

3 provides a very good economic balanced approach. 

4 It grows the economy because the fee will be 

5 collected and monthly distributed back to each 

6 household in the nation, and there's a particular 

7 ratio that the particular policy lays out. It 

8 would not exceed something like 2.8 members per 

9 household. 

10 But the idea is it would offset the cost 

11 of the rising fees that would result from the 

12 increased fee of the production of the fossil 

13 fuel. The fee itself is assessed on the amount 

14 of tonnage, per unit of tonnage that is resulting 

15 from the extraction of the fossil fuel. Figure 

16 that the accountants have some actuarial studies 

17 that, they know just about how much carbon 

18 emissions, and certainly there's a higher fee for 

19 methane, because methane has a little bit more 

20 hazards to it. 

21 So, fundamentally, that is the program. 

22 Fifteen dollars has been the proposed fee at the 
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1 beginning of the year, and then increasing each 

2 year until the stated percentages of reduced 

3 greenhouse emissions are accomplished, which they 

4 state out to be 50 percent of the 1990 standard 

5 of emissions. 

6 We think that this is a good approach 

7 because it will encourage cleaner alternative 

8 energy activity and investment through the pre9 market system, and not impose -- and the cost 

10 itself, going back to each household, as a 

11 dividend, so to speak, would provide, for many 

12 people, actually enough income to spur the 

13 economy, making purchases that they normally 

14 wouldn't, and for others it would help them 

15 offset the rising cost. 

16 So I think that the program is something 

17 worth considering. I'm understanding that within 

18 the Clean Power Plan there is a lot diversity in 

19 terms of how the reduction is accomplished in 

20 each states. I think that the carbon fee and 

21 dividend would probably be best accomplished if 

22 it was a national policy because it could become 
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1 very complicated if it was done in individual 

2 states. But as a national policy, we would have 

3 a uniform implementation. 

4 In a nutshell, that's about what it is. 

5 Essentially, I think that the participation of 

6 each individual -- oh, there's another aspect to 

7 it that I think is good, and that is the fact 

8 that it's more transparent. Since there's a lot 

9 of aspects of trading, it gets lost on the 

10 general public, and when they receive back this 

11 dividend in their SNAP payment or in their Social 

12 Security or in an automated deposit into their 

13 account, or if by a check, if they want it, they 

14 will realize, okay, we're doing something that 

15 this nation and the world needs. 

16 In a nutshell, that's it. Do you have 

17 any questions? 

18 MS. KEMPER: Do you all have any 

19 questions? 

20 [No audible response.] 

21 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. But before you 

22 leave the table could you please spell your first 
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1 and last name for the court reporter? 

2 MR. JAMES: Sure. It's B-o-b and 

3 J-a-m-e-s. 

4 MS. KEMPER: Thank you. 

5 MS. GETTLE: The next speaker is Derek 

6 Jaworski. 

7 Before you make your statement if you 

8 could spell your name, first and last, for the 

9 court reporter please. 

10 MR. JAWORSKI: Yeah. My name is Derek 

11 Jaworski, D-e-r-e-k, last name J-a-w-o-r-s-k-i. 

12 Hello, and as I said, my name is Derek 

13 Jaworski. I live here in Atlanta, Georgia, and I 

14 appreciate the opportunity to comment on this, I 

15 think, potentially historic plan. 

16 I'm here today to mostly speak in support 

17 of it and comment on the Federal Implementation 

18 Plan. I believe that Obama and EPA have 

19 finalized this historic plan that I believe helps 

20 provide essential safeguards to our air and 

21 water. It also creates a critical tool for 

22 helping to combat climate change by states and 
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1 provides them the ability to develop and 

2 implement these standards at local jurisdictions, 

3 by providing and writing state-specific controls. 

4 I think this gives the states the ability 

5 to be flexible and can decide the appropriate 

6 emissions reductions that work for them. It will 

7 allow states, like here in Georgia, to come up 

8 with innovative ways of meeting the requirements 

9 that will take advantage of their unique 

10 economic, political, and geographic 

11 circumstances. 

12 I believe that implementing the Clean 

13 Power Plan at this time is essential for a few 

14 reasons. First, simply, fossil fuel-fired power 

15 plants are the largest source of greenhouse gases 

16 and are the major contributor to climate change. 

17 Also, fossil fuel plants contribute immensely to 

18 respiratory and heart disease for those who live 

19 nearby them. However, if we implement this plan, 

20 it is predicted that 150,000 asthma attacks and 

21 up to 6,600 premature deaths annual will be 

22 avoided. These health impacts caused by fossil 
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1 fuel plants have a major economic consequence as 

2 well. Coal pollution in the United States 

3 results in more than $10 billion annually in 

4 health costs and more than 12,000 emergency 

5 visits per year. 

6 Here in Georgia we stand specifically to 

7 lose a lot if climate change projections become a 

8 reality. Losses to climate change-related storms 

9 along the Georgia shoreline are likely to 

10 increase by as much as $118 million per year, 

11 according to a report by the Risky Business 

12 Project. 

13 Many here in Georgia, especially, have 

14 made arguments that there will be heavy economic 

15 costs caused by this plan. I think this is 

16 incorrect for a few reasons. Firstly, 

17 significant carbon pollution reductions are 

18 already underway as a result of coal plant 

19 retirements and our beginnings of renewable 

20 energy investments. In fact, here in Georgia 

21 we've already started reaping the economic 

22 benefits of renewable energy. 
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1 According to the Solar Energy Industries 

2 Association, there are already more than 173 

3 companies at work in Georgia, investing $189 

4 million to install solar on homes. Georgia's 

5 clean energy also provides 19,000 full-time jobs, 

6 which is more than Georgia Power's entire 

7 workforce. 

8 With all this in mind, in order to ensure 

9 that the draft is strong, I urge the EPA to 

10 ensure that carbon pollution standards in the 

11 model federal plan achieve the pollution 

12 reductions promised in the final Clean Power Plan 

13 or even further their reductions. Secondly, I 

14 would like to ensure that states address 

15 potential carbon pollution from new power plants 

16 to achieve their overall electric sector 

17 reductions in carbon pollution. 

18 Thirdly, I would like EPA to ensure that 

19 low-income consumers are protected by maximizing 

20 utilities' incentives to invest in energy 

21 efficiency, which lowers household energy bills. 

22 I would also like EPA to ensure that the plan 
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1 protects and benefits minorities, low-income, and 

2 indigenous communities. And finally, I would 

3 like EPA to resist any giveaways or allowances to 

4 the most polluting sources. 

5 So I would just, again, like to reiterate 

6 that I think this is a really good plan and could 

7 lead to spurring great economic innovation and 

8 also be a first in many steps of combating 

9 climate change. 

10 Thank you. 

11 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Any questions? 

12 [No audible response.] 

13 MS. GETTLE: No, we don't have any 

14 questions. If you would like to you can leave a 

15 copy of your statement with the court reporter. 

16 MR. JAWORSKI: Sure. I'll do that. 

17 Yeah. 

18 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

19 Our next speaker is Flannery Keck. 

20 Ms. Keck, before you begin your 

21 statement, if you would please spell your first 

22 and last name for the court reporter. 
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1 MS. KECK: Sure. Flannery, 

2 F-l-a-n-n-e-r-y, Keck, K-e-c-k. 

3 Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 

4 I am a member of the Atlanta Chapter of the 

5 Citizens Climate Lobby, and I am here to speak in 

6 support of the Clean Power Plan. 

7 The Clean Power Plan puts in place 

8 historic safeguards to protect our air, our 

9 water, our climate, and the health of our 

10 communities, specifically by addressing emissions 

11 from fossil fuel-fired power plants. These 

12 plants are the largest source of greenhouse gas 

13 emissions and are thus a major contributor to 

14 climate change. Carbon emissions from power 

15 plants represent 40 percent of the total CO2 

16 emissions in the United States. Power plants 

17 also emit convention and toxic air pollutants 

18 that contribute to respiratory and heart 

19 diseases, as well as premature death. 

20 Clean air is a human rights issue. 

21 Without it, communities experience devastating 

22 impacts. For example, just this month in China, 
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1 as their coal-fired plants kicked into gear for 

2 winter, air pollution levels in the Shenyang 

3 province reached almost 50 times the World Health 

4 Organization's recommended level. Schools had to 

5 stop outdoor activities and residents were told 

6 to stay indoors. One resident was quoted as 

7 saying, "When you go out, you feel the air burns 

8 your eyes, your throat hurts, so you go buy a 

9 mask, but it's not really clear what we should 

10 specifically be doing." 

11 And that's devastating. People are 

12 trying to fill the gap their governments have 

13 left with flimsy paper masks. But still, they're 

14 trying. And here, individual people are also 

15 doing as much we can to protect ourselves from 

16 pollution, from high emissions, and climate 

17 change. We're biking instead of driving, when we 

18 can. We're powering our homes with solar, when 

19 we can. But it's going to take more than that, 

20 because there's only so much individuals can do 

21 on our own. 

22 We must have strong institutional 
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1 leadership to protect clean air. EPA has 

2 estimated that by 2030, the Clean Power Plan will 

3 prevent 150,000 asthma attacks and up to 6,600 

4 premature deaths annually. In addition, the 

5 Clean Power Plan provides great opportunities for 

6 economic growth and sustainable development. 

7 Investing in clean energy will create jobs and 

8 fuel economic growth in our country. The EPA 

9 estimates that the Clean Power Plan will deliver 

10 annual benefits of up to $93 by 2030. No matter 

11 how well-intentioned, we as individuals simply 

12 can't effect positive that huge, so we need the 

13 Clean Power Plan to be strongly, effectively 

14 implemented. 

15 I hope that Georgia takes steps to fully 

16 comply with the Clean Power Plan. If it doesn't, 

17 though, EPA is required to issue and enforce a 

18 Federal Implementation Plan. In order to ensure 

19 the draft model federal plan is strong and just, 

20 EPA must ensure the carbon pollution standards in 

21 the model federal plan achieve the pollution 

22 reductions promised in the final Clean Power 
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1 Plan, or even further reductions. It must ensure 

2 that states address potential carbon pollution 

3 from new power plants to achieve overall electric 

4 sector reductions in carbon pollution. 

5 It must protect low-income consumers by 

6 maximizing utilities' incentives to invest in 

7 energy efficiency, which lowers household energy 

8 bills. It must ensure that the model federal 

9 plan protects and benefits minority, low-income, 

10 and indigenous communities that have long borne 

11 the brunt of fossil fuel pollution, and may be 

12 most likely to experience the impacts of climate 

13 change. It must also resist giveaways of 

14 allowance to the most polluting sources. 

15 The Clean Power Plan will clean up our 

16 air and address climate disruption, while also 

17 modernizing how we power our country and our 

18 economy, spurring innovation and creating 

19 thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in new 

20 investments. 

21 And one final note. In January of this 

22 year, the New York Times, Stanford University, 
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1 and the nonpartisan environmental research group, 

2 Resources for the Future, conducted a poll. The 

3 poll found that 83 percent of Americans, 

4 including 61 percent of Republicans, say that if 

5 nothing is done to reduce emissions, global 

6 warming will be a serious problem. Seventy-four 

7 percent of Americans also said that the Federal 

8 Government should be doing a substantial amount 

9 to combat climate change. It is only common 

10 sense to take care of our home, and clearly, most 

11 Americans agree -- we need the Clean Power Plan. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. Do you have any 

14 questions? 

15 [No audible response.] 

16 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. If you 

17 have an extra copy and you can leave a copy a 

18 copy with the court reporter, that would be 

19 helpful. 

20 MS. KECK: Okay. Great. 

21 MS. GETTLE: Our next speaker is Richard 

22 Hertzberg. Mr. Hertzberg, if you would spell 
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1 your first and last name for the court reporter 

2 before you get started, we'd appreciate that. 

3 Thank you. 

4 MR. HERTZBERG: Okay. Richard, 

5 R-i-c-h-a-r-d, Hertzberg, H-e-r-t-z-b-e-r-g. 

6 Okay? 

7 MS. GETTLE: You can begin. 

8 MR. HERTZBERG: All right. Thank you for 

9 this opportunity to speak. 

10 The EPA's Clean Power Plan is important 

11 for its goal of reducing carbon pollution, but 

12 its benefits go far beyond that. My focus 

13 tonight is first on what some call a side 

14 benefit, namely the reductions in multiple air 

15 pollutants that affect our children's health, and 

16 second, on the significant advantage in Georgia 

17 developing its own strategy for meeting the state 

18 goals for cutting carbon pollution. 

19 I am a private consultant in 

20 biomathematics and an adjunct professor in 

21 environmental health at Emory University. My 

22 focus over the past 35 years has been on the 
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1 combined risks from simultaneous exposure to 

2 multiple pollutants and environmental conditions. 

3 Why is that important to the support of the Clean 

4 Power Plan? In a recent U.S. National Climate 

5 Assessment report, it says, "Climate change is 

6 increasing the risks of heat stress and 

7 respiratory stress from poor air quality." Here 

8 in Georgia, our children are exposed to these 

9 stresses all at the same time. 

10 EPA has posted estimates of how many 

11 asthma attacks and premature deaths would be 

12 avoided by the required cuts in several air 

13 pollutants. Where EPA could go further when 

14 discussing the health benefits is to consider not 

15 just the separate risk but the cumulative impact 

16 of all the stressors together. EPA has set 

17 national exposure limits for many air pollutants 

18 related to children's health, notably its 

19 standards for ozone and particulate matter. 

20 But the agency does not have standards 

21 for the combination of such exposures, partly 

22 because there is no single combination -- 
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1 pollution levels change over time and certainly 

2 with location. That is why the Clean Power Plan 

3 option for states to determine their own 

4 strategies is so important. In Atlanta, we hare 

5 notorious for not having national average air 

6 pollution levels. Also, Georgia is culturally 

7 quite diverse. Our communities are not composed 

8 of national average people. Consequently, our 

9 carbon strategy should use Georgia data. 

10 In Georgia, children are exposed to all 

11 of the air pollutants at the same time, and when 

12 exercising in the summer also exposed to the heat 

13 and the humidity. That combination of air 

14 pollutants and heat ha been scientifically shown 

15 to be much worse than expected from the single 

16 stressors in isolation. We call that combination 

17 effect toxicological synergy. 

18 We also know that people of color are 

19 more likely to live in areas of higher air 

20 pollution and people in many inner-city 

21 neighborhoods are also exposed to stress from 

22 high traffic and high crime. Those latter 
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1 psychological stresses have also been shown to be 

2 synergistic with airborne chemicals, that is, to 

3 enhance the toxicity of air pollution. We thus 

4 have defined some highly vulnerable populations 

5 of considerable size. Because of those 

6 identified synergistic interactions and 

7 vulnerable populations, it is even more important 

8 to work hard to reduce our air pollution levels. 

9 Now I realize that heat stress over the 

10 next few years is not gong to go away just 

11 because Georgia meets its carbon pollution goals. 

12 Our city will still be called Hotlanta for many 

13 years to come. However, if we can reduce the 

14 pollution levels in our air, that can have a 

15 dramatic improvement upon children's health and 

16 upon the health of the other sensitive 

17 populations in Georgia. 

18 Among the more common sources of 

19 uncertainty in community health risk assessment 

20 is having to use national pollutant standards and 

21 national population characteristics and then 

22 extrapolate to get risk estimates for a state or 
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1 a region. The best way to develop a strategy 

2 that includes the potential improvements in 

3 public health in our state is to use air 

4 pollution estimates in Georgia, and to match them 

5 with characteristics of the populations in 

6 Georgia. Having that kind of regional and 

7 community focus is where environmental risk 

8 management is the most successful. 

9 So I strongly encourage Georgia lawmakers 

10 to take advantage of this states option and begin 

11 immediately to develop the Georgia strategy for 

12 meeting the carbon pollution limits of our state. 

13 I applaud EPA for making that option available. 

14 State-level risk management is one of the best 

15 ways to improve our air quality and improve the 

16 respiratory health of our Georgia residents, our 

17 environmental justice communities, and especially 

18 our children. 

19 Thank you for your attention. 

20 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. Are 

21 there any questions? 

22 [No audible response.] 
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1 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

2 MR. HERTZBERG: And if you want, I have 

3 references you can look up too. 

4 MS. GETTLE: That would be helpful, and 

5 if you have an extra copy you could give to the 

6 court reporter, we would appreciate that. 

7 MR. HERTZBERG: All right. 

8 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

9 At this time we have no other speakers so 

10 we will be in recess until we have more speakers. 

11 [Break taken from 6:38 to 7:11 p.m.] 

12 MS. GETTLE: We will go back into session 

13 and our next speaker will be Kevin Kelly. 

14 Mr. Kelly, if you could spell your first 

15 and last name for the court reporter before you 

16 begin your remarks. 

17 MR. KELLY: Kevin Kelly, K-e-v-i-n 

18 K-e-l-l-y. Go ahead? 

19 MS. GETTLE: Yes, go ahead. 

20 MR. KELLY: Well, good evening. My name 

21 is Kevin Kelly. I'm a policy advisor with 

22 Southface Energy Institute, an Atlanta-based 
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1 nonprofit organization that provides education, 

2 research, and technical assistance on clean 

3 energy across the Southeast. For more than three 

4 decades, Southface has been on the ground, 

5 training buildings, working with energy code 

6 officials, assisting local governments and 

7 utilities and supporting clean energy companies. 

8 We bring a practitioner's perspective to the 

9 conversation about growing the clean energy 

10 economy in the Southeast. 

11 Since 2013, Southface had partnered with 

12 government and industry to document the growth of 

13 Georgia's clean energy industry through our Clean 

14 Energy Industry Census. The 2014 census documents 

15 an industry that employs almost 20,000 people and 

16 generates close to $3 billion in annual revenues 

17 in the state. This sector of our economy is 

18 growing and is poised to continue growing. A 

19 thoughtful approach to Clean Power Plan 

20 implementation in the state will further that 

21 growth. 

22 I come today to offer comments on the 
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1 Clean Energy Incentive Program and the 

2 Evaluation, Measurement, and Verification 

3 Guidance for Demand-Side Energy Efficiency. 

4 So first I want to talk about the Clean 

5 Energy Incentive Program. Southface was very 

6 supportive of the CEIP -- I'll shorten it. We 

7 believe that the framework proposed in the 

8 federal plan is appropriate and workable. 

9 Specifically, we are very supportive of the 

10 inclusion of low-income EE in the program. 

11 Southface has partnered with a number of other 

12 organizations to promote an expansion of low13 income EE programming in Georgia. 

14 In particular, we have proposed the 

15 adoption of a multifamily affordable housing 

16 retrofit program in Georgia Power's 2016 

17 Integrated Resource Plan. We believe that the 

18 multifamily affordable housing market continues 

19 to suffer from chronic underinvestment from 

20 state- and utility-sponsored EE programs. The 

21 CEIP will address this disparity and ensure that 

22 the benefits of energy efficiency are available 
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1 for all Georgia citizens. 

2 In our proposed Multi-family Affordable 

3 Housing Program, we use an eligibility framework 

4 that is built both on affordability criteria and 

5 geographical criteria. We include publicly owned 

6 housing; privately owned housing developments 

7 that qualify for one or more of the federal tax 

8 credits, like the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit; 

9 and any other multifamily housing development in 

10 a census tract that qualifies for the New markets 

11 Tax Credit, units we refer to as "unsubsidized 

12 affordable." 

13 We encourage EPA to adopt a broad 

14 definition of low-income that incorporates both 

15 affordability and place-based criteria. 

16 Additionally, Southface would be supportive of 

17 CEIP eligibility for non-residential EE projects 

18 that operate in qualified low-income areas 

19 because we believe that these benefits would 

20 accrue to these communities. 

21 There are two elements of the CEIP on 

22 which we seek clarification. The first is the 
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1 eligibility cutoff date for EE programs, which 

2 says that only EE projects that are implemented 

3 after plan submission will receive credit under 

4 the program. 

5 We expect this means that EE measures 

6 installed through an existing low-income EE 

7 program, such as Weatherization Assistance 

8 Programs in the states, can qualify if those 

9 measures were installed after the eligibility 

10 cutoff date. I think there may be a little bit 

11 of confusion in terms here, because EE practice 

12 can encompass programs, projects, and measures 

13 whereas the guidance uses just the term 

14 "projects." 

15 The second issue on which we seek 

16 clarification is whether cumulative or first-year 

17 energy savings will be credited. We expected 

18 that cumulative savings should qualify for CEIP 

19 credit with the accumulation beginning after the 

20 eligibility cutoff date. 

21 Clarifying both of these points would be 

22 helpful. 
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1 Now I want to turn my attention to the 

2 EM&V Guidance for Demand-Side Energy Efficiency. 

3 EPA's draft EM&V guidance employs a standard term 

4 of art in the industry, which is net savings. 

5 The guidance goes on to say that "this change in 

6 energy use and/or demand may include, implicitly 

7 or explicitly, consideration of factors such as 

8 free ridership, participant and non-participant 

9 spillover, and induced market effects." 

10 Southface believes that adjusting EE 

11 savings for free ridership is not relevant to the 

12 Clean Power Plan, and not relevant to compliance 

13 under the plan. In accounting for free 

14 ridership, an evaluator excludes the savings from 

15 any measure installation that a participating 

16 customer says he or she would have done even in 

17 the absence of the program incentive. Southface 

18 recognizes that this is an important EM&V 

19 procedure for establishing net savings for 

20 regulated demand-side management programs, but a 

21 successfully installed measure will reduce energy 

22 demand and result in environmental benefit 
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1 nonetheless. 

2 This fact is of paramount importance for 

3 environmental compliance while the reason why a 

4 customer installed a measure is less significant. 

5 If the technology was installed, a state should 

6 be able to claim credit for these savings. 

7 Southface strongly encourages the U.S. EPA to 

8 more fully explore the specific steps involved in 

9 translating gross EE to net EE savings and the 

10 relevance of each one of those steps to the goals 

11 of emission reduction and environmental 

12 compliance. 

13 In closing, I want to underscore that 

14 Southface supports the Clean Power Plan and looks 

15 forward to working with the State of Georgia in 

16 developing a cost-effective Clean Power Plan 

17 compliance approach. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. Are 

20 there any questions? 

21 [No audible response.] 

22 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. If you 
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1 have an extra copy of your presentation that you 

2 can give to the court reporter that would be 

3 helpful. Thank you. 

4 MR. KELLY: Okay. Thank you. 

5 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

6 We will recess the hearing until we have 

7 additional speakers. 

8 [Break taken from 7:18 to 7:31 p.m.] 

9 MS. GETTLE: All right. Thank you. 

10 We're going to reconvene the hearing, and our 

11 next speaker will be Darel Preble. If you would 

12 have a seat, and if you would, before you begin 

13 your presentation, spell your first and last name 

14 for the court reporter. We will have 5 minutes 

15 on the timer, and you can begin whenever you're 

16 ready. 

17 MR. PREBLE: My name is Darel Preble. I 

18 am spelled D-a-r-e-l, first name, and last name 

19 is spelled P as in Paul-r-e-b like in Bob-l-e. 

20 The energy picture in the world right now 

21 is focused on attempting to get CO2 under 

22 control, and as I will read in my prepared 
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1 statement, the technologies which exist to do 

2 this, which are available to the generating 

3 companies, basically don't permit -- well, here's 

4 the prepared statement. 

5 Effective control of rising CO2 is not 

6 financially feasible for even large electric 

7 power generation companies, using currently 

8 available technologies and RPS constraints. 

9 These companies and customer are not capable of 

10 shouldering the heavy substances and procedural 

11 burdens, is EPA's wording. 

12 As their visceral connections to global 

13 economies prohibits deploying grossly non14 economic and reliability-reducing power 

15 generation technologies, space-solar power is 

16 necessary to do this. 

17 There was awarded a contract -- not a 

18 contract but a semifinalist at the D of E who is 

19 [inaudible]. It's not a contract. 

20 The average U.S. citizen has seen their 

21 wealth decline around 42 percent during the last 

22 6 years, and we have seen the average cost of 
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1 food this century rise over 60 percent -- these 

2 are USDA figures -- while the cost of 

3 electricity, for example, has increased over 42 

4 percent, while, I might add, the price of natural 

5 gas, for example, which is becoming the go-to 

6 technology for major power companies, has 

7 actually dropped during that time about the same 

8 amount. 

9 The electric power companies are 

10 extremely concerned about the reliability issues 

11 which they're face with, both from the standpoint 

12 of ground or terrestrial solar and windmills, and 

13 also the fact that natural gas, which was about 

14 $2.70 per million BTU in 1997 and 1998, went to 

15 $14.00 per million BTU around 2005. So if enough 

16 crap like this happens with natural gas, you can 

17 expect to see further massive problems with the 

18 electric power companies. 

19 How much time have I got left? 

20 MS. GETTLE: Two minutes. 

21 MR. PREBLE: The technology of space22 solar power is being vigorously pursued, 
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1 internally, especially in Japan and China. I was 

2 reviewing papers from China, in Istanbul, earlier 

3 this summer, and we'll be having a conference in 

4 the U.S. The next one is in Orlando. It bears 

5 interest from EPA, for example. There are no 

6 equivalents between terrestrial solar and space 

7 solar. You can get 10 times more energy out of 

8 space solar while it is 24 hours a day, 7 days a 

9 week, not pseudo-random intermittent. 

10 If you attempt use storage using the 

11 lowest cost, high-value storage such as 

12 compressed air energy storage, then even if you 

13 store for just one day, which is not anywhere 

14 near adequate, you get 71 times more energy 

15 return on energy investment from space solar 

16 power, which means if you attempt to use massive 

17 storage -- and I'm not talking about, you know, 

18 your [inaudible] and control storage -- then 

19 you're going to see much greater cost and 

20 reliability issues with the electric power 

21 generation in this country and elsewhere. 

22 Because Europe, by the way, it also is not 
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1 aggressively pursuing space solar power at this 

2 point. 

3 How much time have I got left? 

4 MS. GETTLE: Seven seconds. 

5 MR. PREBLE: I thank you for your 

6 attention and opportunity to speak. 

7 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. Are 

8 there any questions? 

9 [No audible response.] 

10 MS. GETTLE: Thank you very much. We 

11 appreciate your time. 

12 MR. PREBLE: Thank you. I have my few 

13 slides if you wanted those. 

14 MS. GETTLE: Do you have them in a hard 

15 copy or do you only have them -- 

16 MR. PREBLE: I have this or I can send 

17 you a hard copy, or whatever you would like. 

18 MS. GETTLE: What I would suggest is that 

19 you, out at the registration desk we have the 

20 place where you can send in written comments, and 

21 I think that if we can give you that you could 

22 just send the comments to that location. We 
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1 consider those comments the same as we consider 

2 the comments provided here today. 

3 MR. PREBLE: Thank you. 

4 MS. GETTLE: Thank you. 

5 The hearing is recessed for the day. 

6 [Whereupon, at 7:38 p.m., the Public 

7 Hearing is recessed until November 20, 2015, at 

8 9:00 a.m.] 

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