From: Bob Smith [mailto:bsmith@federalpacific.com] 

Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 9:30 AM 

To: 'Corkran, Jerry L'; 'Phil Hopkinson' 

Cc: rick.anderson@faypwc.com; john.caskey@nema.org; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; 

rgreeson@federalpacific.com; bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; wes.patterson@us.abb.com; 

robert.saint@nreca.coop; 'Rosenstock, Steven'; 'Jerry Hodge'; jrossetti@mlgw.org; 

Jim.creevy@nema.org; 'Meyers, Aaron'; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; kwinder@mleainc.com; 

chad.kennedy@us.schneider-electric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com; 

'Richard Parker'; Brian Coffey 

Subject: RE: Comparison of the total losses for M3 and Amorphous core 25 kVA Transformers 

Dear Jerry and Phil:

I like your paper and realize that it is oriented toward giving all of us more options for going to higher

efficiencies with our transformer products.  I am convinced that our transformer efficiencies are  quite

good under the present circumstances; and I hope that those who are pushing for even higher values

will understand why we shouldn’t rush into some unknown and expensive territory for such a small

benefit.  In your paper you reference IEEE C57.12.91 for a loading guide; I believe you meant to cite IEEE

C57.91 as the loading guide for liquids, and you may want to make a change in the reference.

I still stick by my statement:   

If the DOE raises the efficiencies of the transformer, so that the price goes up another 15‐20%,

you can be sure that the end users and consultants will take advantage of the thermal capability

of today’s transformers and will start selecting lower rated KVAs for their loads.  The result is

that they will experience (just as your paper indicates) higher watts of load losses at times when

KW‐HR costs are at their highest.  Ironically DOE’s good intentions will have just the opposite

behavioral effect that they intended, as your paper so eloquently has illustrated.    

Thanks for the nice paper on this important subject.

Regards,

Bob Smith, PE 

Product Manager 

Federal Pacific

601 Old Airport Road

Bristol, VA 24201 

  

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From: Corkran, Jerry L [mailto:Jerry.Corkran@CooperIndustries.com] 

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 6:07 PM 

To: Richard Parker 

Cc: Caitlin Johnson; rick.anderson@faypwc.com; tballo@earthjustice.org; ScottB@lvmetals.com; 

john.caskey@nema.org; john.cymbalsky@ee.doe.gov; adelaski@standardsasap.org; 

Teckman@nwcouncil.org; gbf1@pge.com; carlos.gaytan@ge.com; rgreeson@federalpacific.com; 

bruce.r.hirsch@bge.com; mhyland@appanet.org; dave.millure@metglas.com; Nadel, Steve; 

wes.patterson@us.abb.com; Eric.Petersen@aksteel.com; Raymond.Polinski@atimetals.com; 

rroy@nrdc.org; robert.saint@nreca.coop; chuck.simmons@pgnmail.com; mark.stoering@xcelenergy.com; 

cabolduc@lbl.gov; kcoughlin@lbl.gov; Brian Coffey; gjrosenquist@lbl.gov; Rosenstock, Steven; Michael 

Rivest; Jerry Hodge; jrossetti@mlgw.org; Jim.creevy@nema.org; Meyers, Aaron; 

Daniel.Cohen@hq.doe.gov; jmauer@standardsasap.org; greg.coulter405@gmail.com; 

bsmith@federalpacific.com; pkumar@publicpower.org; Trujillo, Antonio; Phil Hopkinson; 

ahofmann@publicpower.org; BermanEconomics@gmail.com; Paul.Ryan@hitmet.com; 

jerry.schoen@aksteel.com; mwaltner@nrdc.org; kwinder@mleainc.com; chad.kennedy@us.schneiderelectric.com; eduardorobles@eaton.com; vijay.tendulkar@onyxpower.com

Subject: Comparison of the total losses for M3 and Amorphous core 25 kVA Transformers 

Mr. Parker,

                                The attached memo is being sent to explain to you and the DOE working group why an

evaluation of the losses at 50% load of the efficiencies does not encompass the entire picture.  The

memo explains one of the reasons why we believe that amorphous core transformers are the wrong

choice for the national energy efficiency standards.

Jerry Corkran