# Date: May 4, 2015

**Case:** ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. Phone: 202-347-3700 Fax: 202-737-3638 Email: info@acefederal.com Internet: www.acefederal.comASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PUBLIC MEETING ASRAC MISCELLANEOUS REFRIGERATION WORKING GROUP MEETING

U.S. Department of Energy Forrestal Building, Room 8E-089 1000 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20585

9:00 a.m. Monday, May 4, 2015ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Appearances for Department of Energy Meeting 2 3 

## Javier Ramirez, Facilator, Federal Mediation & 4 

## Conciliation Service 5 

## David W. Huang, Federal Mediation & Conciliation 6 

## Service 7 

## Sarah Butler, DOE 8 

## Joseph Hagerman, DOE 9 

## Brenda Edwards, DOE 10 

## Timothy Ballo, Earthjustice 11 

## Bill A. Brown, GE Home & Business Solutions 12 

## Jennifer Cleary, Association of Home Appliance 13 

## Manufacturers (AHAM) 14 

## Mary Dane, Traulsen 15 

## Charles Hon, True Manufacturing 16 

## Joanna Mauer, Appliance Standards Awareness Project 17 

## (ASAP) 18 

## Nate Mouw, Whirlpool 19 

## Steven J. Rosenstock, Edison Electric Institute 20 

## Stephen Schaefer, Hoshizai America, Inc. 21 

## Richard F. Topping, Sub-Zero Group, Inc. 22 

## Roland Marciniak, U-Line CorpASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## P R O C E E D I N G S 2 

## (9:00 a.m.) 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Welcome everybody. I'm Joe 4 

## Hagerman, Department of Energy. This is obviously a 5 

## very important rule to us and a very important set of 6 

## activities that we have planned for today as we get 7 

## ready to go through first official start of the ASRAC 8 

## Working Group for the Miscellaneous Refrigeration 9 

## Products. 10 

## I'm sorry I'm a little late. We're trying 11 

## to get the Ethics lawyer down here so he can give 12 

## everybody a quick little ethics briefing as it 13 

## relates to this working group, so he should be here 14 

## any second, and he's also going to be joined by 15 

## another General Counsel employee as well. So, thank 16 

## you for being here. Appreciate your time. 17 

## Appreciate you know all of our hard work that we have 18 

## to do to get the rule out within four meetings. 19 

## The ASRAC gave us four official meetings 20 

## to do this, with a potential extension of two more, 21 

## so six total, but I think we can all agree that we'll 22 

## get it done well before that, right, so we can enjoyASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## the summer. So thank you for coming out here and 2 

## let's have a good, constructive discussion today. 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Good morning. Can you hear 4 

## me? I'm Eileen Baras Hoffman, one of your 5 

## facilitators. And somebody said how come we have 6 

## three? Well, you won't have three all the time. I 7 

## said it's because it's a difficult group, but that's 8 

## not true. 9 

## We're here from the Federal Mediation and 10 

## Conciliation Service, and I'm co-facilitating with my 11 

## colleague Javier Ramirez from Chicago, and we'll 12 

## explain our role; but we also bring new people in to 13 

## sort of see this process and that's Isael from 14 

## California. So, he's going to be learning on this 15 

## group, so we're hoping you're going to be an 16 

## important model on that score. 17 

## Here's our agenda. And what we're going 18 

## to try to do is we've got a lot to do in two days. 19 

## We're going to have an introduction, go around the 20 

## room and hear -- does everyone know everyone? Good. 21 

## Then we'll have an introduction, okay, and a little 22 

## bit of background on what the reg negs process is.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Have any of you been in reg negs before, negotiated 2 

## rulemaking? 3 

## (Show of hands.) 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, some of you have and 5 

## some of you haven't, so we'll be looking at that. We 6 

## can cherry pick what worked and learn from what 7 

## didn't. 8 

## Ground rules, that's a critical thing for 9 

## this morning. We're going to talk about how we 10 

## behave and how we work with each other. The ground 11 

## rules are going to be very important. Schedule 12 

## setting, we're all very busy people, right? You 13 

## wouldn't be on this negotiated rulemaking if you 14 

## weren't busy and very fierce and professional 15 

## advocates for your organizations and cause. 16 

## What we're going to try to do, and this is 17 

## something one of -- we have to really have to 18 

## mediating is getting the right dates so that we can 19 

## all meet and be productive and reach our deadline by 20 

## the end of August, so we've got an accelerate 21 

## timetable. 22 

## Then we'll have a discussion of the scopeASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## of definitions critical to any negotiated rulemaking, 2 

## discussion of test procedures, standard settings, 3 

## other items, and wrap up. We'll also have a role for 4 

## the public. This is a public meeting. We have some 5 

## public in the back who will introduce themselves when 6 

## we go around the room so you'll know who's there. 7 

## We also have people on GoTo Meeting, and 8 

## we'll be having time for them to weigh in as well, 9 

## and we have Navigant and other staff here as well. 10 

## So, you'll know who's in the room. 11 

## Before I go to the purpose, though, I 12 

## think it would be good if we went around and saw who 13 

## is here. So, if we could start with you, Dan, if you 14 

## could say your name and where you're from. 15 

## MR. ORMAN: I'm Dan Orman. 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Just real quick. I hate to 17 

## interrupt here. Why don't everybody introduce 18 

## themselves and also make opening statements as well 19 

## in case you want to say anything about the rule and 20 

## how important it is or any opening statement you'd 21 

## like to make. 22 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Can we have a timer on that?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HAGERMAN: You won't need one. 2 

## MS. HOFFMAN: No, but that's helpful. 3 

## Really, let us know where you're coming from. Thank 4 

## you. 5 

## MR. ORMAN: I'm Dan Orman with Haier 6 

## American. I've been there since October, over 25 7 

## years with Whirlpool prior to that in refrigeration. 8 

## So, this is my first go around in the negotiated 9 

## regulations process. 10 

## So, Haier American is selling wine cellar 11 

## products and some icemaker products that are produced 12 

## in China. That's the extent of our involvement and 13 

## our interest in it. 14 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I have one question for 15 

## you, Dan; do you make any thermoelectric type of wine 16 

## cellar units? 17 

## MR. ORMAN: We're not making any in China. 18 

## They're ROMs that we're getting those from. 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: All right, but you sell 20 

## some units under the hybrid. Okay. 21 

## MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo with Earth Justice. 22 

## I'm an attorney. And I think like most of the energyASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## efficiency advocates in the room I'm here because I 2 

## want to save the maximum amount of energy that I can. 3 

## I think my particular focus coming from a 4 

## Clean Air Act enforcement background is ensuring that 5 

## we have a level playing field, that whatever 6 

## standards we establish, whatever definitions we set 7 

## are sufficient clear that they can be readily 8 

## enforced by the Department and ensuring that we get 9 

## that part of it right. 10 

## MR. MOUW: Nathan Mouw from Whirlpool 11 

## Corporation. Whirlpool sells and distributes 12 

## icemakers, wine chillers, and beverage centers, so 13 

## that's our interest in coming to a fair rule on 14 

## those, amongst the other products. Thanks. 15 

## MR. MARCINIAK: my name is Roland 16 

## Marciniak from U-Line Corporation, fairly new product 17 

## for myself. I worked 25 plus years in transient 18 

## voltage surge suppressions, so last year in 19 

## refrigeration became a bit of a new area for me 20 

## working with compliance, so things are pretty similar 21 

## no matter where you're working in compliance trying 22 

## to satisfy ULCSA global products. So, we makeASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## under-counter refrigerators at U-Line and I'm here to 2 

## learn more than anything else. 3 

## MS. DANE: Hi. My name is Mary Dane. 4 

## This is my second neg regs. I'm with Traulsen out of 5 

## Forth Worth, Texas. We are interested in a fair 6 

## rulemaking and we are very hopeful that some good 7 

## definitions. Like Tim, we would like to see some 8 

## things defined and defined in ways that average 9 

## people can understand what rules are being applied 10 

## to. Thank you. 11 

## MR. SCHAEFER: Good morning. This is 12 

## Stephen Schaefer with Hoshizaki America. I've been 13 

## with the company for 18 years. We deal with 14 

## commercial-size icemaker and we also deal with 15 

## refrigerators and freezers commercial-size. We also 16 

## have a couple under counter ice machine around 40 17 

## pounds. 18 

## We're interesting in seeing that we have a 19 

## fair standard. We've been Energy Start Partner of 20 

## the Year three years running, so we'd like to make 21 

## sure that energy efficiency is on the forefront, but 22 

## we want to make sure that it's all fair for all theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## manufacturers and for all the jobs are at stake. 2 

## Thank you. 3 

## MR. HON: I'm Charlie Hon with True 4 

## Manufacturing. We have quite a few products in the 5 

## same categories being discussed here. I am a member 6 

## of the ASRAC parent committee as well as Jennifer 7 

## setting next to me. We are the representatives in 8 

## the committee who report back to the principal 9 

## committee. And I've been with True Manufacturing for 10 

## 18 years and in refrigeration for 27. 11 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with the 12 

## Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers, and we 13 

## represent manufacturers of compressor-based products 14 

## in this rulemaking, so I do just want to be clear 15 

## about that distinction. Our members really don't 16 

## produce the non-compressor products, so our comments 17 

## will be limited there. And really we want to ensure 18 

## that the rule is clear and that the test procedure is 19 

## consistent. 20 

## MR. KUCH: Hi everybody. My name is Chris 21 

## Kuch with Southern California Edison with the Codes 22 

## and Standards team, statewide team. We advocate forASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## cost-effective energy efficiency at the California 2 

## level as well as DOE, obviously. So, we definitely 3 

## want to see a clear standard that is cost-effective 4 

## and saves energy. So, thank you. 5 

## MS. MAUER: I'm Joanna Mauer with the 6 

## Appliance Standards Awareness Project. We do 7 

## advocacy work on energy efficiency standards for 8 

## appliances, commercial and industrial equipment and 9 

## lighting, and we're interested in strong, 10 

## cost-effective efficiency standards. 11 

## MR. BROWN: Hi. My name is Bill Brown. 12 

## I'm with GE Appliances. I'm the technical director 13 

## of Energy Systems. I've had 28 years with GE and 14 

## have been in the standards side since 2001. I've 15 

## been involved in many ANARF1 publications on the 16 

## Technical Subcommittee for the Canadian C300 17 

## standards. I'm also the U.S. technical advisor for 18 

## the IUC Committee on Energy Performance -- 19 

## refrigerator performance and energy. 20 

## And I've been involved in global 21 

## harmonization of the test procedures, so looking to 22 

## get one test procedure. You could test the productASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## and then sell it anywhere in the world, so looking to 2 

## see how we can harmonize both the IEC standards that 3 

## we have and what we have for DOE and things that are 4 

## coming out of this rulemaking as well. 5 

## MR. TOPPING: Good morning. I'm Dick 6 

## Topping. This company here is a reflection of an 7 

## employment arrangement I have, but I do represent in 8 

## the major appliance area the Sub-Zero Group Company 9 

## in Madison, Wisconsin. Sub-Zero manufacturers you 10 

## know premium built-in refrigeration and cooking 11 

## equipment, one of the first companies actually to 12 

## develop and build wine storage products. 13 

## And I have been part of the last two 14 

## informal negotiations, which lead to the refrigerator 15 

## standards in 2001 and 2014. 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Again, I'm Joe Hagerman, 17 

## DOE. I'm a senior advisor within the Billings Group, 18 

## and I'm responsible for this Miscellaneous 19 

## Refrigeration Product rule. Let's move back to 20 

## consultants back there. 21 

## MR. WATSON: I'm Troy Watson. I'm with 22 

## Navigant Consulting. We support on the analysis sideASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## of things some of the engineering analysis and market 2 

## analysis. 3 

## MS. RICH: Judith Rich from Navigant 4 

## Consulting. Troy summarized it pretty well why we're 5 

## here. 6 

## MR. YOUNG: Hello. My name is Scott 7 

## Young. I'm from Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, and 8 

## we work more on the economic side of the analysis. 9 

## MR. RAMERIZ: And let's go to the folks in 10 

## the back there. David can start. 11 

## MR. HUANG: David Huang, FMCS, here to 12 

## observe the process. 13 

## MS. PONTILLO: My name is Pam Pontillo, 14 

## and I'm with the Department of Energy, Office of 15 

## Conflict Prevention and Resolution. 16 

## MR. BOSWELL: Wade Boswell, DOE's Office 17 

## of Hearings and Appeals. 18 

## MR. ROSENSTOCK: Steve Rosenstock, Edison 19 

## Electric Institute, also here to observe and we're 20 

## kind of especially interested in the scope of the 21 

## rulemaking. When you say miscellaneous refrigeration 22 

## that could be a very big umbrella, everything fromASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## indoor to outdoor products like propane refrigerators 2 

## for camping and so there's a huge umbrella there. 3 

## So, I'm kind of curious in terms of what the eventual 4 

## scope is going to be. Thank you. 5 

## MR. STEM: Mike Stem with Intertech. I'm 6 

## just here for the test procedure side of things. 7 

## MR. ARMSTRONG: Hi. I'm Ashley Armstrong 8 

## with DOE. 9 

## MS. HOFFMAN: I think we have about nine 10 

## folks, is that right, from the public that are online 11 

## as well. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. And my name is Javier 13 

## Ramirez. I'm with Federal Mediation. And I want to 14 

## go over just a couple of logistical things while I 15 

## have the mike. One important thing is what I call 16 

## one functions or breaks, right. We'll call them 17 

## whenever -- I take that back. You'll call them 18 

## whenever you need them. So, whenever you need a 19 

## break, just give us a signal, right? Whatever that 20 

## signal is and we'll make sure that we give you enough 21 

## breaks, okay, so we'll take them as often as we need 22 

## them, but probably about 10 minutes each.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Lunch we don't know exactly what time 2 

## we're going to be breaking for lunch. We hope to get 3 

## through all this preliminary stuff and then take a 4 

## lunch break and then really get into the meat and 5 

## potatoes of it, so whenever we get through it then 6 

## that's when we'll break. 7 

## You all I'm sure will do far better with 8 

## the microphones than I do, but when you speak turn 9 

## them on so that way the court reporter can make sure 10 

## he captures everything and then done so that he 11 

## doesn't get any of the side chatter and turn off. 12 

## When you want to speak, one system that we see that 13 

## works pretty well, just put your table tent up on the 14 

## side like that until we get to you and we'll try to 15 

## keep track and we'll just try to get everybody in 16 

## order that they've up their table tent. We might get 17 

## a little mixed up, depending on everyone puts them up 18 

## at the same time. And when you're done, just go 19 

## ahead sit it back down. 20 

## Parking lot, we put a parking lot up on 21 

## the door over there so that way if there's an issue 22 

## that isn't quite on for what we're here for we'll goASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## ahead and throw it into the parking lot. There might 2 

## even be advisory recommendations that may go forward, 3 

## but whatever is not quite what we're here for we'll 4 

## throw up in the parking lot if we need to, or for 5 

## something that we need to get back to. All right. 6 

## MR. ISAEL: My name is Hermosillo Isael. 7 

## I work for Federal Mediation. I here kind of to 8 

## observe the process and eventually help you guys out 9 

## as the months proceed, and also to take notes as we 10 

## go along. 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman, DOE. Let me 12 

## jut remind everybody before you speak restate your 13 

## name and where you're from as well so that we can 14 

## have it on the transcript. And since this is a 15 

## pretty fast process, once we get a transcript back 16 

## I'm not going to edit it or anything. I'm just going 17 

## to send it out to everybody and post it as is, so if 18 

## there's misspellings or anything like that just 19 

## forgive me, but I'm going err on the side of getting 20 

## it published as soon as possible. 21 

## MS. HOFFMAN: It would help if everyone 22 

## gave a business card to our person here.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: You can take care of that 2 

## during one of the functions. 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: One of the breaks. 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: One of the functions, right. 5 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Right. We'll also try to 6 

## schedule a break so everyone can go at the same time, 7 

## and the restrooms are that way. And some of you have 8 

## already discovered Dunkin Donuts. I don't get paid 9 

## for that, but they do have coffee downstairs. Okay, 10 

## do you want to handle the overview ASRAC? 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I will. I'm going to give 12 

## a quick overview of the ASRAC process or what ASRAC 13 

## is, and then Eileen is going to go through the rules 14 

## of our consensus and everything. All right. Thank 15 

## you. 16 

## So, in 2012, DOE established a federal 17 

## advisory Committee called ASRAC, Appliance Standards 18 

## and Rulemaking Federal Advisory Committee. ASRAC, 19 

## obviously, was chartered by DOE. It's completely 20 

## advisory in nature and focus on appliance standards 21 

## and rulemaking. Next slide. 22 

## (Slide.)ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HAGERMAN: This is quite literally 2 

## going to be 20 second on ASRAC. As needed, ASRAC 3 

## will vote to form working groups. So, obviously, 4 

## they voted to form this MREF Working Group in which 5 

## case they tasked us to work together to develop test 6 

## procedures and a standard for the miscellaneous 7 

## refrigeration products. 8 

## DOE may withdraw from ASRAC at any time. 9 

## I don't think that we've ever had a working group 10 

## withdrawn nor have we ever had a working group that 11 

## didn't come up with a term sheet and we've never had 12 

## a case that if they did come up with a term sheet 13 

## that the term sheet didn't, one-for-one, become the 14 

## final rule. So, obviously, DOE is very interested, 15 

## invested, and working together in this forum to 16 

## resolve this rule as much as possible. 17 

## In the event a consensus recommendation is 18 

## not reached for a particular task within a given 19 

## timeframe, ASRAC will let DOE know that no 20 

## recommendation was generated. So, that is always the 21 

## recourse there. Again, that's never happened before. 22 

## ASRAC tasked us to come up with this test procedureASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## in the rule within four meetings, hopefully, over 2 

## four months. It did give us an extension of two 3 

## meetings after that, but we have to ask for them. 4 

## Let's not be in that category. Let's not ask. Let's 5 

## just get this done in three meetings, right? That's 6 

## it. 7 

## (Slide.) 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. This is the small 9 

## infomercial for our agency, the Federal Mediation and 10 

## Conciliation Service. We were established actually 11 

## when there were a lot of labor disputes because we 12 

## had some skills in dealing with conflict. And since 13 

## then, it's been expanded to deal with the government 14 

## and regulations and a lot of different things. And 15 

## so the Administrative Dispute Resolution Act of 1990 16 

## and 1996 basically named us to help other agencies 17 

## work on various missions that they have in terms of 18 

## an ADR alternative dispute resolution process and 19 

## that's why we're here. 20 

## We've facilitated over 50 of these 21 

## negotiated rulemakings. And we actually were the 22 

## very first one in the 1980s for flight and duty time.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Not all of them have been a success, but our work 2 

## with DOE has, and our most recent one was 3 

## manufactured housing, which was last summer. 4 

## (Slide.) 5 

## MS. HOFFMAN: and that just mentions some 6 

## of the things we've done. And what is negotiated 7 

## rulemaking? Well, for those of you who aren't as 8 

## familiar, it's basically a process where the 9 

## stakeholders, the key stakeholders here can reach an 10 

## agreement and work together for what might be a draft 11 

## rule. And the hope is that that draft rule, when it 12 

## goes out for notice and comment, won't have that many 13 

## because all the comments have been actually shared 14 

## with the agency and with each other. The hope is 15 

## that it's a more efficient, a clearer, a better rule 16 

## than through the normal process. 17 

## And basically, the rule, hopefully, is the 18 

## one that you've been thinking about. From each of 19 

## the comments that we've heard you're looking for a 20 

## clear, fair, energy efficient type of rule that 21 

## people can understand, that can be globally 22 

## translated, et cetera, and so we're going to workASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## with you on that. 2 

## (Slide.) 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then, basically, it 4 

## doesn't replace the agency, as you've heard from Joe. 5 

## The agency has to adopt it. I mean but since the 6 

## agency is a major player in this process. And 7 

## through the ASRAC mechanism it should be able to do 8 

## that, but no 100 percent guarantee on that. 9 

## (Slide.) 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: This just mentions why we're 11 

## here in terms of the Administrative Procedure Act and 12 

## others. And this just basically defines what's a 13 

## facilitator. Probably all of you are facilitators in 14 

## your organizations already or your middle children, 15 

## so you have to deal with conflict both ways. But 16 

## basically, we're here because of the Negotiated 17 

## Rulemaking Act does ask for a facilitator in a 18 

## negotiated rulemaking process, and we're here as 19 

## impartial. 20 

## We care about energy. Don't get us wrong, 21 

## but we have no stake in this particular rule and 22 

## we're here to use our good offices to try to help youASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## reach an agreement, but it's not an agreement at any 2 

## price. It's an agreement that you can understand and 3 

## feel you can support on that score. 4 

## So, I think I'm almost done. 5 

## (Slide.) 6 

## MS. HOFFMAN: This just goes on and on 7 

## about being the chair of it. And we're everything. 8 

## We're the coach. We try to work with you and 9 

## basically assist in generating options, but most of 10 

## the options are going to come from you since you're 11 

## the experts. And we have also data analysis coming 12 

## from Navigant and others, so the hope that through 13 

## this process you'll get the best data, the best 14 

## analysis, and the best rule. 15 

## (Slide.) 16 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then we're going to 17 

## facilitate the meeting and we're looking at your body 18 

## language. Right now we've got you all looking, or 19 

## maybe you're thinking about the break or lunch or 20 

## something, but we do know you're here and we're going 21 

## to look at signals to see how we can be most 22 

## effective. And that might mean -- this is a publicASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## meeting, but occasionally we might talk to somebody 2 

## outside the meeting or inside, whatever. And if 3 

## someone doesn't understand something, we'll make sure 4 

## -- we sometimes play the dummy and say could you 5 

## explain that a little differently. We do that. We 6 

## might not understand it, but we also do that because 7 

## we sense that someone in the room doesn't and our job 8 

## is to make sure everybody is on the same, even level 9 

## on that score. 10 

## (Slide.) 11 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then this is our 12 

## obligation, which is to make sure that the process is 13 

## perceived as fair, which is I think what we're 14 

## hearing here. So, the participants, now for you we 15 

## also say that by entering into this process, by 16 

## volunteering and by appearing you're basically also 17 

## agreeing to work together toward the best possible 18 

## rule, one that you can live with, one that can work 19 

## for your industry and your organizations and for the 20 

## public good. 21 

## (Slide.) 22 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And this just basically is aASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## schematic of where you are with all of us here, 2 

## technical help, public, but also stakeholders. You 3 

## know all of you represent something beyond yourself, 4 

## and we're aware of that, so we will work with you; in 5 

## other words, how to transmit what's happened here to 6 

## your constituents so they understand. You know you 7 

## say you have been in a meeting, but nothing's agreed 8 

## to until, of course, everything is. So, there may be 9 

## a point where we don't have an agreement yet and 10 

## you'll be able to tell your constituents we're 11 

## working on this, what the topics are. 12 

## (Slide.) 13 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then the first meeting 14 

## is setting the stage, which is right now. And 15 

## subsequent meetings and between meetings we'll be 16 

## available with Joe Hagerman, Navigant, et cetera. We 17 

## might have webinars if you need it, whatever, but we 18 

## may have when we set the dates fairly accelerated 19 

## time schedules so that we may not need that, but 20 

## we're available for that as well. 21 

## (Slide.) 22 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then, we may need aASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## smaller working group. This is a fairly small group, 2 

## but there may be a topic that we want to have a few 3 

## of you do and members of the group can suggest a 4 

## working group for that, a smaller one. And we'll go 5 

## into what that means. It's more advisory because 6 

## what you come up with would be presented back to the 7 

## larger group because this is the decision-making 8 

## body. 9 

## (Slide.) 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then that's just what 11 

## the meeting is which is what we're going to do today. 12 

## We did a little bit already. You can pat yourselves 13 

## on the back. The expectations of the meeting, by Joe 14 

## asking each of you what you hope to have happen, we 15 

## got a pretty good feel. Not everything, of course, 16 

## of what you're hoping to happening with this rule, 17 

## the introduction a little bit of the overview of the 18 

## process, which is to come up with a term sheet really 19 

## and a draft rule and language of the definitions and 20 

## scope, and then the ground rules and protocol. 21 

## And then our participation we went over 22 

## that already. If we need to add members -- I don'tASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## think we do ^^^^ I think we've got a representative 2 

## group that's here, that's been convened. And if 3 

## anyone feels that they can't participate let us know 4 

## also because we'll be discussing very shortly what a 5 

## quorum is and so we want to make sure that you're 6 

## counted on that. 7 

## (Slide.) 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then the purpose of the 9 

## rule and decision-making will be by consensus for the 10 

## most part, and we'll also define what consensus is. 11 

## In the Act, in the Negotiated Rulemaking Act, 12 

## consensus is unanimous unless the committee, the 13 

## working group decides on a slightly different 14 

## definition, and we'll be handing out some draft 15 

## ground rules where you'll see other committees have 16 

## done a little bit less than 100 percent consensus -- 17 

## one, two, three type of things with certain "no's," 18 

## but that's for you to decide. 19 

## (Slide.) 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And then when there's an 21 

## agreement, which we're hopeful will be happening in 22 

## August, we might talk about how that's going to beASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## portrayed. And good faith is what we're hoping for 2 

## and think you're all hearing that. And information 3 

## flow there will be -- and Joe will go into it by the 4 

## end of the meeting. There's a website where all the 5 

## material be on and Isael will be putting everything, 6 

## logging it in so you can find it. 7 

## We've learned now with the incredible 8 

## amount of material that comes in that having a 9 

## particular number in a log so you can find it would 10 

## be helpful. And between meetings, we'll touch base 11 

## with you and concluding, follow up. We'll also ask 12 

## you down the road for an evaluation. And that's 13 

## that. At least, that's part of what we hope to do. 14 

## Are there any questions? Yes. Tell us who you are, 15 

## please. 16 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 17 

## Just a point of clarification, maybe this 18 

## is for Joe. Is a possible outcome to have a 19 

## successful negotiation for some products in -- you 20 

## know in this grouping and perhaps remand other back 21 

## for a formal analysis of DOE? 22 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman, DOE.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Absolutely. So, that was contemplated at 2 

## the onset of this working group due to the larger 3 

## ASRAC Committee. 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. Thank you. Any other 5 

## questions? Yes. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Let me just say one 7 

## clarification, though. Joe Hagerman, DOE again. 8 

## Let's try not to do that. Okay. Thank 9 

## you. 10 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Clary with AHAM. 11 

## Can you tell us what would happen -- let's 12 

## say one group of products didn't go through this 13 

## process. What would happen to it? 14 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I think DOE would you know 15 

## take the recommendation of this committee obviously 16 

## very serious and then we'd probably continue to do a 17 

## little bit more analysis to see how the Department 18 

## felt on that recommendation. 19 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 20 

## Would it be, do you think, part of the 21 

## same rulemaking or would it need to move to a 22 

## separate rule, or is that something we shouldASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## investigate? 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I think it could be 3 

## either/or. 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. I think there's more 5 

## here. The negotiation process, which is I think 6 

## we've really talked about that, which is we'll be 7 

## talking about the agenda and basically trying to find 8 

## consensus on all of these points. 9 

## Now, Joe, I just want to mention this EPCA 10 

## requirements, do you want to go over that now? 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Sure. These are the seven 12 

## factors that we use for any rulemaking, that 13 

## different types of analysis that we do. So, after 14 

## this working group comes up with a term sheet or 15 

## multiple term sheets, we still perform all these 16 

## different analysis to compile the final rule. So, 17 

## there's economic impact on consumers. There's 18 

## lifetime operating cost savings, total projected 19 

## energy savings, impact on utility and performance, 20 

## impact on lessening competition, the National Energy 21 

## Conservation, and other factors the Secretary may 22 

## weigh.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## So, you see these seven analyses in the 2 

## final rule of everything that we do. And that work 3 

## is typically done by Navigant, so we'll continue to 4 

## do that to complete the final rule. 5 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Well, great. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: This would be a good point 7 

## to introduce our general counsel. 8 

## MS. BUTLER: Sarah Butler with the Office 9 

## of General Counsel. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We're ready for the Ethics 11 

## piece. 12 

## MR. HAGERMAN: No, no, hold on. That's 13 

## Dan Kelly. Dan Kelly is going to go down to get the 14 

## Ethics lawyer. 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Well, thank you for joining 16 

## us. So much for that. All right, moving right 17 

## along, we'll go to ground rules. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Joe's going to pass around 19 

## some hard copies of ground rules. 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Right. 21 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Right. So, I'm going to 22 

## pass around -- these are the standard, boilerplateASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## ground rules that we use before any negotiated 2 

## rulemaking. So, as a group, we're all going to read 3 

## this. So, I'll pass these out and give you 10 or 15 4 

## minutes to read them, and then we can start having 5 

## the discussion. Hopefully, by that time, Wayne will 6 

## have come up here and we can have the Ethics briefing 7 

## too. 8 

## And then, as a group, we typically post 9 

## these on the board and then Javier will go through 10 

## each paragraph and we'll vote consensus or not 11 

## consensus on the ground rules to make sure 12 

## everybody's comfortable with it. This will typically 13 

## take about two hours to get through this document, 14 

## it's four pages, and then we'll go from there. 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: May I say it might not take 16 

## two hours. It might not take quite so long really, 17 

## but when you're reading it take a look at it. We'll 18 

## be talking about what should be -- 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: It usually takes about two 20 

## hours. 21 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We'll have a facilitator 22 

## huddle here.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: See if we can get you 2 

## through it quicker. 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. We'll be also defining 4 

## quorum and consensus. 5 

## (Working Group participants read ground 6 

## rules.) 7 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, Dan just talked to the 8 

## Ethics lawyer. They're going to be here after lunch, 9 

## so we can all act unethical until lunch. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Don't let anybody buy lunch 11 

## for you, or unless it's got to be under $20. Okay. 12 

## We're going to be doing the ground rules 13 

## in a few minutes. You had a chance to read them. 14 

## We're looking at each paragraph, alternate working 15 

## group members, participation, quorum, and consensus. 16 

## But before we did that, we thought maybe just a 17 

## little discussion of what consensus is might be 18 

## helpful before we start. So, Javier is going to do 19 

## that for us. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so I'm going to 21 

## try to go through some of these consensus slides a 22 

## bit quick. For the most part, I think that folksASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## understand what is consensus, but we sometimes have a 2 

## little different understanding so that's why it's 3 

## beneficial to go through and make sure we have a 4 

## common understanding of what is consensus, but also, 5 

## more importantly, if there are some "no" votes how 6 

## many "no" votes are there until the group is 7 

## comfortable with saying that we've reached consensus. 8 

## So, basically, it's a process where 9 

## everyone's been heard. The decision may not be your 10 

## first choice, but that you could live with the 11 

## decision. And if you noticed on there, can live with 12 

## and support the decision, that's the lowest level of 13 

## consensus. You may not necessarily agree with it, 14 

## but you could still live with and support. 15 

## (Slide.) 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, when we're going through 17 

## consensus, you want to make sure that you raise valid 18 

## doubts and ask the questions. You want to get the 19 

## dialogue going, offer alternatives. If something 20 

## doesn't work for you, then what can? And we're going 21 

## to go into that a little bit more when we talk about 22 

## -- it sounds a little negative, but we call themASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## "Blockers." So, if you're thumb is down and you're 2 

## saying no, why is it down? Is there an alternative? 3 

## All right. 4 

## (Slide.) 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, here are the different 6 

## levels of consensus. You have the five levels. Now, 7 

## when we normally gauge consensus we could do it one 8 

## of two ways. We could either do it with the fingers, 9 

## right, where you start off with five fingers. And if 10 

## you agree completely, there they are, acceptable 11 

## would be four, can live with the decision would be 12 

## three, do not agree but won't block and will support 13 

## are two fingers, and do not agree and will block 14 

## where there's one finger remaining, right? You can 15 

## decide which finger, right, but one finger. 16 

## Now that's a little complicated, so what 17 

## we do is we prefer the thumbs. So, the first two 18 

## would be a thumbs up, agree completely or acceptable. 19 

## Sideways is the next two. And then if you do not 20 

## agree and you're going to block, then it's a thumbs 21 

## down. Okay. So, if everyone is sideways, is that 22 

## consensus? Technically, yes, according to what IASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## just said, yes, it is. 2 

## Now, I will tell you it's a weak 3 

## consensus. And if I see that what I'm going to do is 4 

## I'm going to take it and I'm going to put it in my 5 

## pocket and I'm going to say here's your consensus. 6 

## I'm going to hold onto that, but is there a way that 7 

## we could make it a little stronger? Is there 8 

## something that we could do to tweak it to make it a 9 

## little stronger? If not, I'm going to take it back 10 

## out and say here you go. You have your consensus. 11 

## Let's roll with it, right, because I did that one 12 

## time and I forgot to put it in my pocket and I 13 

## couldn't get them back to where everyone was sideways 14 

## again. So, I'm going to hold onto it just in case 15 

## and put it back on the table if we need to. Okay. 16 

## Now, if your thumb is down, it's the 17 

## responsibility of the person whose thumb is down to 18 

## state why. Okay. So, if your thumb is down -- you 19 

## know I spaced out. I wasn't paying attention. The 20 

## question wasn't clear. Javier, that was a very 21 

## confusing question. Can you restate it? I need a 22 

## little bit more time to think about that. If youASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## need a little bit more time that's fine. 2 

## There's times where folks may want to do a 3 

## quick little huddle before they come back and say 4 

## yes. And if so, we have a room in the back. If you 5 

## want to take a few minutes and do that, let us know 6 

## and we could allow for that. 7 

## Now again, if your thumb is down, though, 8 

## it's not just a matter of your thumb being down and 9 

## you don't agree with it. You have to help the group 10 

## understand why that is. Now, I had somebody tell me, 11 

## Javier, during one of the breaks why do you keep 12 

## picking on me? And I said, well, what do you mean? 13 

## Why do you say that? Because you keep calling on me. 14 

## Well, if the person's thumb is down, I'm 15 

## going to call on you to find out why is your thumb 16 

## down. Okay, so it's your responsibility to explain 17 

## that. Okay. 18 

## Now, there's two things that we may do as 19 

## far as checking the level of consensus. Sometimes I 20 

## may just ask for a temperature check and say well 21 

## where are we at on this? Let me see a show of 22 

## thumbs. And then that way if everyone's in agreementASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## there's no sense in continuing to discuss it. Let's 2 

## formally approve it and move on. 3 

## There may be times where I'll do that 4 

## because I know that the folks not in agreement, but 5 

## it's a way to generate certain dialogue, right, so I 6 

## may ask that question knowing that there's not full 7 

## consensus yet, but just to get you talking. And then 8 

## we'll make it clear that if we are going to be 9 

## looking for a final consensus vote that it's a vote 10 

## that will be recorded and that's going to be on the 11 

## docket. Is that clear to everyone? 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Also, I was going to mention 13 

## that when you're blocking not only say what your 14 

## concerns are, but if you have an alternative. So, 15 

## we're kind of asking people not just be a veto, but 16 

## to be a part of the group and how would you solve 17 

## this problem. So, we're trying to get as much 18 

## information and ideas as possible. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, when we talk about 20 

## consensus, the consensus is usually unanimous. Now, 21 

## when we do these regulatory negotiations, we normally 22 

## do allow for not a unanimous consensus in order forASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## it to be approved. We allow for some folks to 2 

## dissent, but still the group can say that they've 3 

## reached consensus. 4 

## Now, there's different levels of dissent, 5 

## and you all have to agree on which is appropriate for 6 

## you. One of the things that we threw out there for a 7 

## starting point of discussion is a super majority, a 8 

## two-thirds majority. And if you're looking at a 9 

## group of your size where you have 14 people, 10 

## two-thirds will be 10, meaning that 4 people could 11 

## dissent and you would still have consensus. 12 

## Now, that's one of the things that we're 13 

## going to have to agree upon, and so I would ask the 14 

## group here what do you think as far as -- I'm asking 15 

## for some discussion. Does two-thirds sound 16 

## appropriate to you all, that if four people dissent 17 

## that the group would still have consensus? 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Jennifer. 19 

## MS. CLEARY: I think I'd be a little 20 

## concerned about that because looking at -- 21 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Say your name. 22 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Looking at who's represented, there may be 2 

## certain kind of groupings of people who might not 3 

## have enough -- you know it could a whole like segment 4 

## that might disagree. I don't know. I'd be open to 5 

## hear other's thoughts. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 7 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Roland with U-Line. I 8 

## noticed on the rules for the working group that 9 

## they're talking about two as a reason or three 10 

## actually being a reason for non-consensus, so there 11 

## seems to already be some disparity between what we've 12 

## read here and what you're suggesting there. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. These ground rules 14 

## were cut and paste from another reg. 15 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Okay. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, it depends on the size 17 

## of the group, but yes, three is another number that 18 

## we could discuss. 19 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Well, it seems to be 20 

## actually going in the reverse direction that Jenny is 21 

## just sayings. She's saying she's questioning if four 22 

## is too little and this is stating three would beASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## cause for non-consensus, so I'm just trying to get a 2 

## feel for what some of the thoughts are for how many 3 

## it would take to have consensus. 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. And again, Joanna, I 5 

## think you wanted to speak. I'll just remind you to 6 

## put your table tents up so that way we can keep track 7 

## of who wants to speak. Joanna. 8 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer. 9 

## If I understood, Jen, I think what you're 10 

## saying four may be too many, and I would agree with 11 

## that. We have somewhat of a caucus of three, so I 12 

## don't think we'd want to see more than two "no" 13 

## votes. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, two? 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Two "no" votes. 16 

## MS. MAUER: I would defer to Tim, though, 17 

## also. 18 

## MR. BALLO: This is Tim at Earth Justice. 19 

## I think put this up to the manufacturers 20 

## to this question as well because I'm not sure how 21 

## many of the manufacturers around the room participate 22 

## in the market for each of the different products thatASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## are sort of within the sphere that we're discussing 2 

## here. So, I'm not sure if there's you know a couple 3 

## of people that make thermal electric products, for 4 

## example. But my thinking was that because this is a 5 

## smaller group than we've typically had for reg negs 6 

## that we would do more than one or maybe two "no" 7 

## votes; define that as consensus. 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so, yes, I'm 9 

## hearing a range from one to four. So, let me see a 10 

## show of thumbs of what you think of two as -- again, 11 

## looking at the levels of consensus with that fourth 12 

## one being the lowest level of consensus, right? Let 13 

## me see a show of thumbs if you're okay with two? 14 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Javier, this is not an 15 

## official vote. You're just taking people's 16 

## temperature? 17 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. It may be official, 18 

## depending on -- 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: That's the question. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: But let's see a show of 21 

## thumbs, though, if you're okay of two. And this is 22 

## more of a temperature check, at least to start offASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## with, right? We'll formalize it if we need to. If 2 

## you're okay with two as the maximum number of 3 

## dissenters and still allow for consensus. 4 

## (Vote taken.) 5 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I mean my vote is whatever 6 

## this means. 7 

## MS. HOFFMAN: You can live with it. 8 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Just because I think we 9 

## need a little bit more discussion here from 10 

## everybody. I mean I don't really know how to vote 11 

## yet without having discussion. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. So, I'm going to 13 

## switch your thumb to down, right, because you're 14 

## still getting a little comfortable with the process, 15 

## right? But a thumb down would be just you do want to 16 

## have more discussion and that's fine. And so, Joe, 17 

## is the concern that two may be a little to low, a 18 

## little too high. 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I don't know enough yet. 20 

## I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So, who else would 22 

## like to chime in?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: Charlie Hon, True Manufacturing. 2 

## I think we need to really first clarify 3 

## the group as a whole because we need to find out how 4 

## many representatives for each sector of the market 5 

## may be involved here. That can dictate a lot because 6 

## we have energy efficiency people here. We have 7 

## manufacturers here. The manufacturers may be making 8 

## one product, two products, three products, four 9 

## different categories within the scope of this 10 

## rulemaking. I think we need to be fair and let 11 

## everybody understand where the market sectors are. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Chris. 13 

## MR. KUCH: I agree. I think one of the 14 

## big questions is what's the scope? I mean 15 

## miscellaneous products I think it's already been 16 

## stated that that's really broad. So, I think a 17 

## better understanding of what that is would help. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Now, getting into scope I 19 

## know that that's one of the items that we need to 20 

## identify, and that's going to be quite a bit of 21 

## discussion. At least the way I understand that, I 22 

## believe that we would have to have an understandingASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## of what is consensus before we start getting into the 2 

## details of the meeting. That is one of your tasks, 3 

## right, is the scope. 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Jennifer? 5 

## MS. CLEARY: Can I make a suggestion maybe 6 

## --Jennifer Cleary. 7 

## You know it sounds like maybe we want to 8 

## understand which products certain manufacturers make. 9 

## I think that might be the biggest question. So, I 10 

## mean there are kind of four groupings, maybe we could 11 

## just ask for a show of hands in that. 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Excuse me. Eileen Hoffman. 13 

## Go around the room and ask each 14 

## representative what products they -- would that be 15 

## easier? 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, Joe Hagerman. 17 

## The four categories are cooled cabinets, 18 

## non-compressor refrigerators, hybrid products, and 19 

## icemakers. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so let's see a 21 

## show of hands for cooled cabinets? 22 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Hold on. You know thoseASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## four categories are the four categories that are in 2 

## the preliminary document. It's not -- you know it 3 

## may not be how this group you know in terms of those 4 

## people. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: We may have to go through 6 

## and do Eileen's initial one. 7 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Right. 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, Bill. 9 

## MR. BROWN: Yes, Bill Brown with GE. 10 

## You asked for manufacturers. Are you also 11 

## talking about those that brand the products and not 12 

## just the OEMs as well? 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I believe it has to be 14 

## whatever is on the market. 15 

## MR. BROWN: Well, I'm asking you know if 16 

## your company physically manufacturers a product or 17 

## you buy from another company and brand it with your 18 

## -- so you are you asking you know if we make the 19 

## product or if we sell the product? 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Both. 21 

## MR. MOUW: Nathan Mouw, Whirlpool. 22 

## If I could just maybe add to Jen Cleary'sASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## suggestion -- I mean we've got a whiteboard. Perhaps 2 

## could we and go through, not only just cooled 3 

## cabinets, but of course there's a separation between 4 

## thermal electric versus vapor compression just so we 5 

## all have a real good feel for what exactly is 6 

## represented, what products exactly are represented by 7 

## this group. 8 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Thanks for adding thermo 9 

## electrics. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, then let's go around and 11 

## we'll ask each manufacturer what they do and then 12 

## we'll categorize them. 13 

## MR. ORMAN: Dan Orman, Haier America. So, 14 

## we would have cooled cabinets compressorized. Now, 15 

## thermo electric wine cellars that's going to be 16 

## non-compressor cooled cabinets versus non-compressor 17 

## refrigerators. I'm not sure which term. 18 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I've nominated Troy to do 19 

## this for us. 20 

## MR. ORMAN: Joe, when you were reading 21 

## through the categories, you had non-compressor 22 

## refrigerators. What about non-compressor cooledASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## cabinets? So, Haier America has cooled cabinets, 2 

## both compressor and non-compressor. We have 3 

## icemakers. We don't have hybrids and we do not have 4 

## non-compressor refrigerators. 5 

## MR. WATSON: So, icemakers and vapor 6 

## compression and thermo electric cooled cabinets? 7 

## MR. ORMAN: Correct. I don't know whether 8 

## we're making a distinction here with manufacturer 9 

## versus branding or not. 10 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I would say if your company 11 

## sells them. 12 

## MR. ORMAN: Okay. 13 

## MR. HAGERMAN: This is kind of the white 14 

## elephant in the room or whatever. You know we're 15 

## having a hard time getting a hold of thermo electric 16 

## companies, so please help us to try to get to those 17 

## companies and get those companies to the table. 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Does that reflect all of the 19 

## categories? 20 

## MR. ORMAN: Yes. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, do we need to 22 

## distinguish them between branding and manufacturingASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## or just if they sell them or make them? 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I'm indifferent to that. 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So, just list 4 

## the products then. 5 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Notwithstanding, we still 6 

## have the problem that we need to get thermo electric 7 

## companies to the table, so please help us. you know 8 

## find out who these companies are because we've 9 

## reached out and they're just non-responsive. 10 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nate with Whirlpool. 11 

## Joe, I'd agree. I think the challenge, if 12 

## we sell those products, is we may not have the 13 

## technical expertise, right, to answer those questions 14 

## for those products even if we sell them. So, I agree 15 

## with your recommendation. Whirlpool has vapor 16 

## compression cooled cabinets and icemakers. That's 17 

## it. Thanks. 18 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Roland Marciniak with 19 

## U-Line. 20 

## We have compressor products, cooled 21 

## cabinets, and all products are under-counter 22 

## refrigeration/freezer type units. That's it.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. DANE: Mary Dane for Traulsen. 2 

## We have the cooled cabinets, all 3 

## compressor and we're still interested in the hybrid 4 

## category to get definition, but they would be 5 

## compressor controlled, so one in three. 6 

## MR. SCHAFER: Stephen Schaefer, Hoshizaki 7 

## America. Hoshizaki has the cooled cabinets, 8 

## compressor, and icemakers. 9 

## MR. MARCINIAK: This is Roland with 10 

## U-Line. 11 

## We also have icemakers that should be on 12 

## that also. 13 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon, True Manufacturing. 14 

## We have vapor compression cooled cabinets. 15 

## We have very serious interest in hybrids and also 16 

## icemakers we manufacturer. 17 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 18 

## We don't manufacturer anything, but 19 

## obviously, we're representing those who do, but the 20 

## categories would be vapor compression cooled 21 

## cabinets, hybrids, and icemakers. 22 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## We sell vapor compression cooled cabinets 2 

## and icemakers. 3 

## MR. TOPPING: Yes, Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 4 

## Manufacture is vapor compression, cooled 5 

## cabinets, although I will, just for the record, 6 

## mention that the whole concept of cooled -- calling 7 

## them cooled cabinets is something that we -- is a DOE 8 

## proposal and so they've been called wine coolers 9 

## prior to that. And we also manufacture vapor 10 

## compression hybrids. 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I know that George is not 12 

## here. Does anyone know? 13 

## MS. HOFFMAN: (Inaudible.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Is he on the line? 16 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nate. 17 

## I know that Mile High Equipment is 18 

## associated with Ice-o-Matic, which manufactures 19 

## icemakers, but I'm not speaking for that company. I 20 

## just have that knowledge. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: right. 22 

## MR. MOUW: If I could just ask for a bitASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## of clarification. I heard a couple of parties 2 

## mention interest in products versus manufacturing or 3 

## selling. So, I just want to make sure that it's 4 

## clear whether or not these companies are 5 

## manufacturing and/or selling or have just interest in 6 

## those products. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I believe that was Jennifer. 8 

## Was there anyone else that had that? 9 

## MR. MOUW: I thought Charlie mentioned 10 

## something and Mary Dane also mentioned something 11 

## similar. 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: On hybrids, yes. 13 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 14 

## Just because we don't manufacture it today 15 

## doesn't mean we won't manufacture in the very near 16 

## future. 17 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary Dane from 18 

## Traulsen. 19 

## We're interested from a scope perspective 20 

## of what the word "miscellaneous" means and what 21 

## "hybrid" means and along those lines. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Does that help?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## (No response.) 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any other questions or 3 

## clarification needed? 4 

## MR. WATSON: Should I add Mile High under 5 

## icemakers? 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Do that with a question mark 7 

## on there. We could confirm with them. 8 

## MR. BROWN: Joe, this is Bill Brown with 9 

## GE. 10 

## I mean you mentioned the thermo electrics. 11 

## Do we have any manufacturers that make the absorption 12 

## refrigerators that's also included in this 13 

## miscellaneous? 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I'm sorry. Could you repeat 15 

## that? 16 

## MR. BROWN: Do we have any manufacturers 17 

## that make or sell absorption refrigerators. They're 18 

## also non-compressor-based cabinets, so thermo 19 

## electric and also absorption. So, I was just 20 

## wondering if we have anybody that represents 21 

## absorption refrigerators. 22 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, this is Joe Hagerman,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## DOE. 2 

## We've had the absorption folks attend the 3 

## last public meeting and I believe we got some 4 

## comments from them, but I don't think anybody here at 5 

## the table. Maybe you all should speak for 6 

## yourselves, but I don't think anybody at the table 7 

## represents or manufactures those products. 8 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 9 

## We sell icemakers. I forgot to add that. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Any other questions 11 

## or clarification needed? 12 

## (No response.) 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, how does that 14 

## information help with your discussion and hopefully 15 

## ultimate agreement on consensus? 16 

## MR. MOUW: If I could -- Nat Mouw from 17 

## Whirlpool. 18 

## Obviously, looking at the whiteboard there 19 

## is four non-compression refrigerators as well as 20 

## thermo electric products. There's a very, very small 21 

## group of stakeholders here. Does that impact how we 22 

## view consensus in these areas or does that change theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## approach that this group takes for those products? 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: What do you all think? 3 

## MR. SCHAEFER: Stephen Schafer, Hoshizaki 4 

## America. 5 

## Is there a possibility of still trying to 6 

## get other people for those areas before the next 7 

## meeting, or is this the cap for the committee at this 8 

## point? 9 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman, DOE. 10 

## I think the rules stipulate that this 11 

## group can vote other members in. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Now, there are some items 13 

## that we are going to have to reach consensus on, and 14 

## they're fairly minor and we can amend them at any 15 

## point; but one of them is the level of consensus, but 16 

## also quorum. I'm not sure what other agreements we 17 

## may be getting to in the next day or so, but even so, 18 

## if the group changes in size we could always revisit 19 

## the numbers that we've agreed to and amend them if 20 

## need be. 21 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman, DOE. 22 

## One more thing -- and Jennifer alluded toASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## this in one of her earlier questions. Keep in mind 2 

## -- and this is just me thinking through this a little 3 

## bit. Keep in mind, this group could come up with 4 

## definition and coverages for all these products and 5 

## for thermo electrics, but then this group could turn 6 

## around and say there shouldn't be a standard for some 7 

## of those -- obviously, that's not our preference -- 8 

## or likewise, they could say, DOE should develop the 9 

## standard for this outside of this group, run the 10 

## traditional analysis that you do, or the third is 11 

## this group is going to come up with a standard. So, 12 

## keep that in mind too. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: This is an example of what I 14 

## would ask for a show of consensus to see if there's 15 

## any additional dialogue. So again, let me see a show 16 

## of thumbs for temperature check, not the final vote 17 

## as far as two "no" vote for a consensus. In other 18 

## words, more than two then there's no consensus. 19 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary from Traulsen. 20 

## Can we wait until Jennifer gets back? 21 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Would this be an appropriate 22 

## time for a break? That's what I think. How about aASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## 15-minute break and you can think about this, and 2 

## when we come back we'll deal with it, okay? So, come 3 

## back in 15 minutes. Okay, we'll see you all back 4 

## here at 10:30. 5 

## (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And so, while we were on 7 

## break, we did hear from Jennifer that she would not 8 

## be able to get back here before 10:30. She will be 9 

## joining us again, but not before 10:30. However, she 10 

## wanted to let us know that she'd be okay with two 11 

## negative votes, but nothing more than that. So, we 12 

## just wanted to make sure that that was in the record. 13 

## MS. HOFFMAN: She's sideways for two. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: She could live with the two. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, going back to that 17 

## though, one thing that I think the group has to 18 

## understand is that looking at the list here there may 19 

## be items that we're discussing that really don't 20 

## pertain to your interests. And if that's the case, 21 

## then you could abstain from a vote or you could go 22 

## sideways thumb with your vote. So, abstaining isASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## totally appropriate. 2 

## The sideways, you have to understand that 3 

## listening and maybe there's not enough expertise. 4 

## And the other thing we could do is we could also 5 

## where we break and if you want to pick the brains of 6 

## some other folks that may not be here or maybe 7 

## consults with some folks that are in the different 8 

## country if we can't find the appropriate people to 9 

## bring here. But again, if you all think that there 10 

## are people here that we can incorporate, then we'll 11 

## vote on that and bring them in if need be. 12 

## During the break, were there any points 13 

## that were brought up that you wanted to make sure 14 

## that the group hears, or anything further for 15 

## discussion on consensus? 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: This is Joe Hagerman. I 17 

## feel more comfortable now after hearing more 18 

## discussion and mapping out what everybody sells, all 19 

## right. I mean I'm comfortable if that's the baseline 20 

## that we're going to vote off of. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let's check it out after we 22 

## hear from Charlie.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: Charlie Hon, True Manufacturing. 2 

## The only question I have is two negative 3 

## votes a turn down of it, or is two negative votes 4 

## acceptable? 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Two negative votes it would 6 

## still go forward. More than that, then we don't 7 

## have. 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Three negative votes or more 9 

## it's dead in the water. Two negative votes maybe 10 

## somebody politically can't vote for something, 11 

## whatever, it can go. 12 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, we're saying consensus 13 

## is defined by 12 out of 14 members. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And I want to be careful 15 

## with that because the next thing we're going to talk 16 

## about is quorum, right? But I think it's clear that 17 

## if there's two voted down we're still good. Once you 18 

## see that third one, then we're not good. So, Roland. 19 

## MR. MARCINIAK: I'm a little confused. If 20 

## you have somebody in absence, you're saying that it 21 

## would still be acceptable if you had two dissenting 22 

## and one abstained. I think I heard two differentASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## views of that to where that was acceptable or not 2 

## acceptable. 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. That's why I wanted to 4 

## clarify that. If you have two votes down, you're 5 

## still good. 6 

## MR. MARCINIAK: If you have two votes 7 

## down, and somebody abstains from voting. 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: You're still good. 9 

## MR. MARCINIAK: You're good? Okay. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. And that's what we 11 

## were kind of talking about before that maybe it's 12 

## something that doesn't pertain to you. You don't 13 

## want to impact it. You would just abstain. 14 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer. 15 

## I think I may have misstated my 16 

## suggestion. I think I was thinking that with two 17 

## "no" votes it would not be a consensus. 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, you're restating that 19 

## one "no" vote it could be a consensus. Two "no" 20 

## votes it's not. 21 

## MS. MAUER: Right. 22 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Any other discussion 2 

## on that? 3 

## (No response.) 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right. And let me 5 

## explain -- I was supposed to explain afterwards, but 6 

## I'm still going to ask for a show of thumbs on the 7 

## two just to see where we're at on that. It's not jut 8 

## try to force anyone into anything. If that doesn't 9 

## work for you, again, looking at the levels of 10 

## consensus then we'll try another number. 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman. 12 

## Real quick just so we can be clear with 13 

## everybody. Let's vote on what the definition of 14 

## consensus is by you know 12 out of 14, right, or 10 15 

## out of 14 rather than saying the two "no" votes 16 

## because I think that's what's confusing everybody. 17 

## So, what you just suggested is consensus means we 18 

## have 12 out 14 members voting yes. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 20 

## MS. MAUER: I'm not sure that works 21 

## because if not everyone is attending the meeting or 22 

## if someone wants to abstain.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: That's my hesitating because 2 

## of abstaining or if folks are not present because I 3 

## think it's clear that if you see a certain amount of 4 

## "no" -- whatever you ultimately agree upon, right, 5 

## you see a certain amount of thumbs down then you know 6 

## that it's not going. I think it's a little clearer 7 

## that way. 8 

## Okay, so again, it's not to try to force a 9 

## situation, but let's see a show of thumbs if two "no" 10 

## votes we'll still good. Two thumbs down we're still 11 

## good. Anything more than it's no good. Vic? 12 

## MR. TOPPING: I mean just in the interest 13 

## of full disclosure. Up front, you know let's talk 14 

## about an issue I think that is of some concern and it 15 

## has to do with thermo electric and absorption 16 

## products. Nobody sitting around this table 17 

## manufactures those products nor can probably speak to 18 

## you know some of the details of the design and 19 

## whatever. At the same time, those products at some 20 

## level compete with products that a number of our 21 

## companies manufacture. It's an uncomfortable 22 

## position.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 2 

## MS. HOFFMAN: May I ask now, how would you 3 

## like to solve it? 4 

## MR. TOPPING: Well, obviously, to see some 5 

## representation around the table of companies that 6 

## both manufacture both thermo electric and absorption 7 

## products. 8 

## MR. COHEN: Hi. This is Dan Cohen, 9 

## General Counsel in DOE. 10 

## Just a couple of just legal issue around 11 

## that, so I'm not getting into the policy or what the 12 

## desirability may be on any particular issue, but just 13 

## as a pure legal matter a couple of things. So, you 14 

## know what we're talking about here is initially what 15 

## is covered, what is a covered product of 16 

## miscellaneous refrigeration equipment. 17 

## This group could define that in any number 18 

## of different ways, including thermo electric, not 19 

## including thermo electric. You could make a 20 

## determination that thermo electric is outside 21 

## miscellaneous refrigeration equipment, make that 22 

## recommendation to the Secretary and then recommend toASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## the Secretary that he consider thermo electric 2 

## separately -- as a separate covered product in a 3 

## different proceeding. 4 

## Alternatively, you could say well thermo 5 

## electric is part of miscellaneous refrigeration 6 

## equipment as a matter of coverage simply, but not 7 

## recommend any particular standards to the Secretary 8 

## and leave it for the Secretary to determine that in a 9 

## subsequent proceeding. 10 

## Third, you could sort of as an alternative 11 

## to two you could include thermo electric as part of 12 

## the covered product, and in fact, recommend standards 13 

## for thermo electric. Remember, the only thing this 14 

## group can do is recommend a proposed rule to the 15 

## Secretary. We obviously have to put that, whatever 16 

## it is, out for public comment. So, to the extent 17 

## that there was a standard that was on thermo electric 18 

## that you know even without representation around this 19 

## table, the Secretary still has to propose something. 20 

## In some ways that's no different than if 21 

## the Secretary did it on his own without the 22 

## recommendation of this group, so there would still beASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## the opportunity for comment and whatever. 2 

## All of that said, I would reiterate Joe's 3 

## request earlier, to the extent you can help us 4 

## identify someone who could actually represent that 5 

## group would be helpful. We could get some of our 6 

## folks who actually have some knowledge about it to at 7 

## least some presentations of data and information to 8 

## sort of inform a discussion, but that's less, 9 

## obviously, desirable than having an actual 10 

## representative. 11 

## MR. HON: A quick one. Charlie Hon, True 12 

## Manufacturing. 13 

## I would like a clarification from the DOE. 14 

## Traditionally, the DOE has made a stance of 15 

## technology neutral; am I correct with that 16 

## assumption? This is what we're looking at again 17 

## today? 18 

## MR. COHEN: This is Dan Cohen, General 19 

## Counsel. 20 

## I'm just giving you legal issues here. 21 

## I'm specifically not getting into the policy of that, 22 

## just legally what could be a recommended pathASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## forward. 2 

## MR. KUCH: So, FYI, to the group the 3 

## California standard for wine chillers, which would 4 

## fit under cooled cabinets make no distinction between 5 

## a vapor compression or thermo electric. It's just a 6 

## straight performance standard, which could be an 7 

## approach that this group might want to take. It's 8 

## just not distinguishing between the two technologies 9 

## there. 10 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon again. 11 

## That also includes the absorption units 12 

## the same way because they're really -- that's 13 

## separate technology within themselves. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. So again, those are 15 

## all things that you are going to have to reach 16 

## agreement on. And by you all agreeing on consensus 17 

## is not impacting your ultimate decisions, right, so I 18 

## just want to make that clear. And also, again, you 19 

## can abstain or sideways vote if you're just not sure 20 

## of that technology. 21 

## So, let me see a show of thumbs, and if we 22 

## need to do this twice, then we'll do it. Two "no"ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## votes you still have consensus, more than that you do 2 

## not. Let me see a show of thumbs where you stand on 3 

## that? 4 

## (Vote taken.) 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, so I see a few thumbs 6 

## down, so I'm going to try the other number, right? 7 

## One "no" vote you still have consensus, more than 8 

## that you do not. Let me see a show of thumbs if 9 

## you're okay with that. 10 

## (Vote taken.) 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Roland. 12 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Well, I'm concerned that 13 

## the group can be controlled by one dissenting vote. 14 

## And if you have a special interest or if in this case 15 

## we were to find someone that we wanted represented on 16 

## this committee or on this panel that was of a 17 

## non-compression type that their dissenting vote would 18 

## basically present us from reaching a good decision. 19 

## I don't like one when we have this many in the group 20 

## to make that determination. I think that's too few. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 22 

## MR. MARCINIAK: One person can decline andASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## basically stop it. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I'll get Bill the next time. 3 

## I want to clarify one thing, right? One "no" vote 4 

## does not stop it. Okay, Bill. 5 

## MR. BROWN: Bill from GE. 6 

## I've seen this type of issue before in my 7 

## IEC committees where our consensus was everybody 8 

## around the table had to agree and we've been 9 

## stalemated by one or two folks taking a different 10 

## position and just was not able to move forward with 11 

## the meeting. So, I don't want to see us get bogged 12 

## down by having too few of a number here. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Now, understand that 14 

## if we don't reach agreement, the default sticks. The 15 

## default is unanimous, okay. All right, so we had a 16 

## show of thumbs on that. So again, let me see a show 17 

## of thumbs for one and we'll go back onto two, but 18 

## trust me, there's -- 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Method to this madness. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, it is. But let's see a 21 

## show of thumbs for one "no" vote we're still good, 22 

## more than that we're no good. Let me a show ofASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## thumbs for one. 2 

## (Vote taken.) 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And let me see a show of 4 

## thumbs for two "no" votes? Two "no" votes then we're 5 

## still good, more than that we are not. 6 

## (Vote taken.) 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right. 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: I think it's passed then. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, because it's unanimous. 10 

## George is not here. So, it's two "no" votes we're 11 

## good, more than that we're not. And again, 12 

## understand I'll do my best -- we'll do our best that 13 

## if we see a lot of sideways thumbs we'll back it up 14 

## and see if we can't try to have some discussion to 15 

## see what we need to try strengthen it. 16 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We operate on the idea of 17 

## trying to get consensus as unanimous and really would 18 

## be exhausting you, but this is just when there's no 19 

## way and the highway is here, but this is important 20 

## that we all agree. 21 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, Joe Hagerman. 22 

## So, could we move to put this document upASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## on the screen? 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The ground rules? 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Yes. And start editing it 4 

## because I think we just voted on page 2, section 3B, 5 

## consensus. The working group will operate by 6 

## consensus. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Just give me a second to 8 

## pull that up. 9 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Sure. The working group 10 

## has defined consensus as an agreement with less than 11 

## two negative votes -- not less, not less than two. 12 

## However you want to word it. It's correct as stated, 13 

## or you can reword it and say not less than two, 14 

## whatever you want to do. And I think while you're on 15 

## that section, let's talk about quorum. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Now, of a group of 14 17 

## -- there's 13 today because George is not here, but 18 

## out of a group of 14, again, the super majority 19 

## number would be 10. Let's have some discussion 20 

## before we check it. What's your comfort level with a 21 

## quorum of 10? So, you would need at least 10 people 22 

## present in order to conduct business.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. HOFFMAN: And what we're thinking of, 2 

## before you do that, is being either face-to-face or 3 

## on the webinar you know which is GoTo Meeting, so 4 

## that some of you for travel, weather, or whatever 5 

## couldn't be here. The hope is you'd be here, though. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The other question we would 7 

## have is -- you know what, let's back it up a little 8 

## bit because how do you want to deal with alternates? 9 

## Because if you send an alternate and the alternate is 10 

## representing you and voting for you I would assume 11 

## that would be part of the quorum, but you all have to 12 

## agree that alternates are acceptable. So, let's 13 

## cover that alternate piece first and then we'll go 14 

## back to the quorum. So, what do you all think of 15 

## alternates. Anyone against it? 16 

## MR. BALLO: This is Tim with Earth 17 

## Justice. 18 

## I guess my only concern is the requirement 19 

## they be designated by May 1. Obviously, it's already 20 

## May 4, but I'd want to allow the flexibility if 21 

## someone can't come up with -- if someone's alternate 22 

## isn't available, they can appoint someone sort of onASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## the fly to be their alternate for a particular 2 

## meeting just so we can get to quorum and maybe it's 3 

## not an issue. 4 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE Appliances. 5 

## I agree with Tim. I mean by May 1 we did 6 

## not have an alternate, but certainly think we do have 7 

## one now and would like the ability to name one, 8 

## depending on when you have your next dates I may or 9 

## may not be available. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right. 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: The reason we wanted to 12 

## lock this by some date, obviously May 1 is not 13 

## reasonable, is we selected everybody here because of 14 

## their expertise, right? We don't want to have a 15 

## situation where we could consider alternates on a 16 

## rolling basis when we don't know what their expertise 17 

## was, right? So, this was sort of carefully designed, 18 

## this committee was carefully designed because you're 19 

## all experts in this field. I think it's fine to have 20 

## alternates, but let's just say by a certain date 21 

## we're going to list alternates and let's, as a group, 22 

## agree on those alternates.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Let me push you all a little 2 

## bit. What about by the end of tomorrow, before we 3 

## leave tomorrow you have your designated alternate? 4 

## Jennifer. 5 

## MS. CLEARY: I'm not sure that will be 6 

## possible for me. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. How much time will 8 

## you need? 9 

## MS. CLEARY: Just like one other day, I 10 

## think, would be enough for me. 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Let's say by the end of the 12 

## week, and then we can vote over email. We've taken 13 

## votes before over email. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So, let me see a show 15 

## of comfort if everyone's okay by the end of the week 16 

## to have a designated alternate. 17 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Because this group is going 18 

## to be voting on the alternates. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: By the close of business on 20 

## Friday. 21 

## (Vote taken.) 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, close of business onASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Friday will be the designated alternate. 2 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Send it to Javier. 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, after we get those, 4 

## you'll circulate that list to everybody and then this 5 

## group will have to vote yes or no to this. 6 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Right. Yes, but also the 7 

## alternates if we get their contact information the 8 

## alternates will get the materials. They'll be fully 9 

## briefed so that if you can't go, they're able to 10 

## serve in your stead. 11 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 12 

## I'm assuming you'll send over the ones of 13 

## us who already did appoint an alternate to Javier. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Could I suggest that you 15 

## resubmit. I'll give you all my card before we leave 16 

## today, but resubmit the name, that way we have a 17 

## fresh list. 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We'll give you a gold star, 19 

## though, too. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. Okay. And then we 21 

## will check for the level of consensus at that time as 22 

## well via email.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Quorum, how many folks for a quorum? 2 

## Again, the number I'm throwing out there as a 3 

## beginning point for discussion would be a super 4 

## majority again of 10. 5 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nathan from Whirlpool. 6 

## I was just wondering is this the complete 7 

## list of those currently in the committee? I mean 8 

## what is the total number of us if just count there's 9 

## 14 of us? 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Fourteen. 11 

## MR. MOUW: Okay. Thank you. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let me see a show of thumbs 13 

## then for 10 is your number for a quorum, and they 14 

## could be online as well. 15 

## (Vote taken.) 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 17 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 18 

## I have the same concern I had with the 19 

## voting, just I want to make sure that each kind of 20 

## group is representing at all of the meetings. So, I 21 

## don't know if we've resolved that through numbers or 22 

## through qualifying the numbers that you know at leastASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## one party from each of our different sectors is 2 

## present, but I would just be concerned, especially, 3 

## because we only have three meetings after this 4 

## there's just not a lot of time and I think all of us 5 

## our interests are served by having everyone informed 6 

## and in agreement. And I think 10 out 14 is -- that's 7 

## a lot of missing people at a meeting. 8 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Do you have a proposal for 9 

## a number? 10 

## MS. CLEARY: Eleven or twelve. 11 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary from Traulsen. 12 

## I agree with the point that you're making. 13 

## My concern is, is that not all of us live in the D.C. 14 

## area, and it's very expensive to get here and make 15 

## reservations to only arrive and find out we don't 16 

## have enough to conduct business. And so, my concern 17 

## would be since we're letting people call in you know 18 

## why we couldn't go with a smaller number of people 19 

## present to get the job done. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. And I want to clarify 21 

## that. We've have done it -- and Emily at the GoTo 22 

## Meeting where if we do have voting members on we openASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## up the mike. They can contribute. That's why we 2 

## also push on these things that they can hear all of 3 

## us. If there's a vote, we make sure that we get 4 

## their vote counted as well. We've asked them where's 5 

## your thumb and they just have to verbally tell us if 6 

## it's sideways or up. So, they do fully participate 7 

## through GoTo Meeting if they can't physically make it 8 

## here. 9 

## So, let me go back to Jennifer. 10 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. 11 

## My comment was assuming the remote 12 

## participation, but I didn't think about your point, 13 

## and that's a really good point. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Rick. 15 

## MR. TOPPING: Just clarification, how's 16 

## the voting work with a reduced number of people at a 17 

## meeting? Is it still the three? 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. That's why I was 19 

## trying to be clear that it had to be the "no" vote 20 

## because the numbers may fluctuate. 21 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay, we would need a quorum 22 

## for the vote.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: That's correct. 2 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And actually, you need a 3 

## quorum to hold a meeting to conduct business. 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, this is exactly why we 5 

## use this process that if there's a thumb's down, we 6 

## have the discussion. If there's any clarity, the 7 

## dialogue helps. We re-check that vote to see how you 8 

## all are. So, let's see again a show of thumbs if 9 

## you're okay with 10 for a quorum number? There has 10 

## to be 10 folks present, either physically or online. 11 

## MR. TOPPING: I'm sorry. Just to clarify, 12 

## the document talks about only voting. And then 13 

## Eileen, you talked about also conducting business. 14 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, you actually hold the 15 

## meeting. Yes. 16 

## MR. TOPPING: So, the document then is not 17 

## clear on that point. Okay, so to actually hold a 18 

## meeting a quorum needs to be established. 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Now, remember this document 21 

## is a draft for the committee to you know to finalize 22 

## today, right, so this is a straw man.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. TOPPING: I just wanted to clarify so 2 

## everybody's on the same page. 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Well, thank you. Yes. 4 

## MR. TOPPING: Thanks. 5 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. 6 

## I'm sorry. I feel like I have too many 7 

## questions, but so if we had -- let's say a quorum is 8 

## 10 and during the meeting we feel like, oh geez, you 9 

## know a whole sector is not here. You could just vote 10 

## down to say let's talk about it and vote at the next 11 

## meeting 'til everyone's represented. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, if there were enough 13 

## "no" votes, then, yes, it wouldn't go through. But 14 

## then even if you had "no" vote we would ask why. And 15 

## if that was the reason stated, then the group would 16 

## have to decide how to move forward. 17 

## The other thing too is that if we needed 18 

## to rearrange the agenda a little bit to help 19 

## accommodate for something like that that's something 20 

## that we could talk about and do as well. Understand 21 

## this is your process. We're just here to try to 22 

## facilitate it, so if you all need that flexibility,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Eileen and I are here to try to provide some the 2 

## structure, not the force or mandate anything on you. 3 

## Okay. 4 

## Rick, did you have anything else? 5 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 6 

## I was just wondering if there was the 7 

## possibility say to delay a vote until more people 8 

## could be involved if that appeared to be important. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Again, you all control that. 10 

## So, the only thing I would suggest on that is that if 11 

## you knew that we were going to be discussing that let 12 

## us know up front and we'll try to rearrange the 13 

## agenda. 14 

## MR. TOPPING: Thank you. 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, the sooner you know that 16 

## the better we could deal with it. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: This is not meant as 18 

## doctrine. It's an attempt to try to conduct business 19 

## and make sure all the people are here. So, don't 20 

## worry. You'll be getting emails from us "Are you 21 

## coming?" "We need you," et cetera. 22 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon, True Manufacturing.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## We don't know about George, whether he's 2 

## actually going to be on the committee or not, 3 

## obviously here, because he's not here. What would be 4 

## the super majority if we would add a member or we 5 

## would take one off? 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Again, I think that's 7 

## something that you all would have to address, if you 8 

## thought that the structure changed significantly then 9 

## we would raise that, but I'm just throwing out a 10 

## number of 10, just using that as a super majority as 11 

## a marker. So, if we get word that three people are 12 

## dropping out of the committee, we may have to revisit 13 

## some of what you previously agreed to. Okay. But I 14 

## would ask then somebody from your group would 15 

## probably have to call that to question, right? 16 

## Okay, Dick I'm assuming you just didn't 17 

## put it down? I don't want to ignore you. 18 

## MR. TOPPING: I'm sorry. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. That's okay. 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman again. 21 

## Let's keep in mind on page 4, item 7, says 22 

## that the working group members may proposeASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## modifications to this document at any given time, so 2 

## we can come back. If we add members -- I mean if we 3 

## add a member the member needs to read this document 4 

## and everything. And you know if he or she wants to 5 

## make changes then they need to bring that up to the 6 

## group. 7 

## But I agree with what Eileen says. This 8 

## whole process is not a process of gotcha, right? 9 

## We're trying to make this as fair and open for all 10 

## the members because you know we need your 11 

## professional opinions and expert advice to set these 12 

## test procedures and standards. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any other questions or 14 

## discussion? 15 

## (No response.) 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so let me see 17 

## some thumbs on 10, 10 for a quorum. 18 

## (Vote taken.) 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Now, let's look at 20 

## that section and see what do we need to modify under 21 

## quorum before any business may occur. Does that 22 

## language accurately reflect what we just agreed to?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. HOFFMAN: Ask Nate? Does that -- 2 

## thank you. 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Thank you. All right, so 4 

## then what we're going to do then is we're going to 5 

## back up and Eileen is going to walk you through the 6 

## rest of the ground rules. And again, these were just 7 

## a way to provide some structure for the conversation. 8 

## You could tweak anything that you see in here in 9 

## order to make it acceptable. Okay. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Right. So, you also have a 11 

## copy of it right in front of you. So, looking at 12 

## one, the goal of the working group, any comments as 13 

## to the goal of the working group? 14 

## (No response.) 15 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Javier, do you want to 16 

## start taking votes on each paragraph so everybody 17 

## comfortable with as written? There's a lot of these 18 

## that I don't think anybody can really have objection 19 

## to. 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: I just want to make sure 21 

## you've read it, though. No offense. I'm a fast 22 

## reader.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Dick, did you have a 2 

## question on it? 3 

## MR. TOPPING: No. 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Let's see a show of 5 

## thumbs for number one then if you're -- I'm sorry, 6 

## Jennifer. 7 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 8 

## I just noticed that this doesn't mention 9 

## test procedures and we will be talking about those. 10 

## So, like for example, the purpose of the working 11 

## group will be to discuss, and if possible, reach 12 

## consensus regarding the development of energy 13 

## conservation standards. I'm not sure how we include 14 

## test procedures there. 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And "test procedures"? 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Any other comments? 18 

## (No response.) 19 

## MS. CLEARY: And I think the next 20 

## paragraph has the same issue, the working group is 21 

## expected to negotiate a final term sheet regarding 22 

## energy conservation standards and test procedures,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## the first sentence of the next paragraph. There are 2 

## two, yes. 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Including test procedures. 4 

## Okay. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Is that okay, Jennifer? 6 

## Okay. Thank you. All right, let's see a show of 7 

## thumbs for number one. 8 

## (Vote taken.) 9 

## MS. HOFFMAN: All right, moving right 10 

## along, number two, participants. Take a look at all 11 

## of those and we'll discuss that. Do you want to do 12 

## it paragraph by paragraph or just the whole thing, 13 

## the first three bullets? 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. 15 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Take a look at the first 16 

## three. We look at the parties, the working group 17 

## members, and alternates. 18 

## (Working group reads the document.) 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, any questions or 20 

## comments on those first three bullets? 21 

## MS. MAUER: On alternates, I think it 22 

## makes sense to have designated alternates so thatASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## they can be hopefully well informed about the 2 

## discussions. I guess I'm wondering whether we might 3 

## want to include some language about kind of 4 

## extenuating circumstances and alternates in the 5 

## event ^^^^ 6 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Extenuating circumstances 7 

## the organization could send a different alternate. 8 

## MS. MAUER: Yes. I don't know what folks 9 

## think about that. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: That gets to Tim's concern. 11 

## MS. MAUER: Right. 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Discussion? 13 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I think as long as you just 14 

## want to add the line at the very end of the 15 

## alternates. And then as a group we know if that 16 

## happens we'll send that member's name out to 17 

## everybody and everybody will need to vote on it, 18 

## right, it seems fair enough. 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: In case of extenuating 20 

## circumstances, the organization will send a different 21 

## alternate. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: A working class member,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## right? 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: A working group. 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Designated alternate. 4 

## MR. MOUW: Is "nominate" the word we 5 

## should be using since it will be voted on? 6 

## MS. CLEARY: And I think that should be 7 

## expressly stated here that it needs to be voted on as 8 

## well because I totally agree with the concept, but as 9 

## long as they're voted on. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We'll make it specific then. 11 

## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 12 

## A question for you. Since the members 13 

## were voted on by ASRAC parent group, is it a 14 

## responsibility of the ASRAC parent group to also vote 15 

## on the alternates? 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I don't think so. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: It hasn't been in the past. 18 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, it's not been in the 19 

## past. 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Thank you, though, for 21 

## bringing that up. And as one of the ASRAC reps, but 22 

## it hasn't been in the past; but I think we've beenASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## able to do it. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so with that 3 

## amendment there, how do the three first bullets look 4 

## under number two? 5 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Yes, I just had one quick 6 

## question. So, you're saying that the alternates that 7 

## we have appointed and that we're sending to you that 8 

## we don't need this approval. And that if they're not 9 

## an alternate that was already submitted, then we need 10 

## to go through this process of nomination. I just 11 

## wanted to make sure that that's process we're using 12 

## here. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The alternates that you're 14 

## all going to designate by the end of the week we're 15 

## going to send those out and get everyone to approve 16 

## the list of alternates and then any changes to that 17 

## we'll get that out as well. 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Did that answer your -- 19 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Yes. 20 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 21 

## I think this last sentence it's a little 22 

## confusing in the context of the whole paragraphASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## because we're talking about alternates and then we're 2 

## talking about alternate alternates, so perhaps this 3 

## sentence should say "In case of an extenuating 4 

## circumstance a working group member may nominate a 5 

## substitute alternate for approval by the working 6 

## group." 7 

## MR. MOUW: In the second bullet point, the 8 

## last few words say "maintain the representation or 9 

## requirements," I may have missed it or is that the 10 

## bullet just above that that refers to? Does anybody 11 

## know or is there another section that talks about 12 

## representation requirements? 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I know that there's 14 

## something in the Federal Register that says what you 15 

## all are committed to do as working group members. I 16 

## believe that that's probably what it's referring to. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, I remember some of them 19 

## were just that you're here to contribute your 20 

## expertise, that you're here to explore alternatives, 21 

## try to reach agreement, things like that. I don't 22 

## think there's anything too onerous that's in yourASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## obligations. 2 

## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 3 

## There's also a requirement that we not 4 

## only represent our own company interest, but also the 5 

## industry of which we're representing. 6 

## MR. BALLO: Tim with Earth Justice. 7 

## This is a niggling point, but I think this 8 

## actually -- the sentence that we're working on, on 9 

## the extenuating circumstances really belongs on page 10 

## 2 under the alternates' bullet, just to clarify that 11 

## the May 1 or May 8 deadline doesn't apply to those 12 

## extenuating circumstance alternate alternates. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, is everyone okay with 14 

## moving that last sentence under the third bullet that 15 

## we just added into the bullet under alternates a 16 

## little further down, everyone okay with that? All 17 

## right, so go to move it over there and then we'll 18 

## look at the first three bullets. So, we'll formally 19 

## approve that when we get to that section and what 20 

## about the first three bullets now that we've 21 

## discussed those, those first three bullets? 22 

## All right, let's see a show of thumbs.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## (Vote taken.) 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, so we're good on 3 

## those. And then let's look at attendance and 4 

## participation at meetings, one, two, A, B, C, D. All 5 

## right, so any discussion on one, two, A, B, C, D? 6 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE. 7 

## 2A, just want clarity on the working group 8 

## member calling upon another individual to elaborate, 9 

## does that refer to someone outside of the working 10 

## group? 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The way that it's worked in 12 

## the past is that there've been some folks that have 13 

## maybe folks from the public. And normally, we don't 14 

## get comments from the public until the end where we 15 

## have the time for public comment. So, if there was 16 

## somebody that you wanted to call on, then you could 17 

## do that. 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Sometimes it's been used for 19 

## expertise, somebody from your organization who's done 20 

## a study and presents it. So, you introduce them, but 21 

## they're not a member of the working group. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so with thatASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## clarification, let's see a show of thumbs if you're 2 

## okay with one, two, and along with that A, B, C, D. 3 

## (Vote taken.) 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right. So, let's look 5 

## at the final three bullets of number two, and here's 6 

## where we move some of that language. 7 

## (Working group reads the bullet points.) 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, in addition to what you 9 

## have in front of you, you need to look at the screen 10 

## for the first bullet because there were some changes 11 

## on that one that are not on your sheet there. Take a 12 

## look at that before I ask for a show of thumbs. 13 

## (Pause.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so let's see a 15 

## show of hands for the three final bullets of number 16 

## of two. I'm sorry, Roland? 17 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Roland from U-Line. 18 

## Should that just be a side note there? 19 

## It said checked on Friday, or should there be a date 20 

## down there. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The date's up above, May 8. 22 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Okay. I'm sorry.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer. 2 

## This is so knit-picky, but I mean if we're 3 

## sending you the things by the end of the day on 4 

## Friday, I don't know if we can actually check the 5 

## consensus the same day or not, but I'll leave that 6 

## to everyone else's consideration. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: After? 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: After. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie, what do you want to 10 

## edit there? 11 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 12 

## I'm concerned because if we have a 13 

## substitute alternate coming in and there's not a 14 

## quorum, not including that substitute alternate we 15 

## could get in trouble because we're allowing for 16 

## another alternate to be nominated in case of 17 

## emergency situation, but without having a full quorum 18 

## to approve that nomination how do you operate? 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I think that the way that 20 

## that would work, though, is that hopefully we're 21 

## getting that name ahead of time, so we could do it by 22 

## email.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: Okay, that makes sense to me. 2 

## That'd be a good alternate possibility. 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, just keep in mind, you 4 

## can join by webinar. You can vote over the phone. 5 

## And in some situations, we send out an email question 6 

## to get people to vote on. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so then let's see 8 

## a show of thumbs for those three bullets then. I'm 9 

## sorry, Dick? 10 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 11 

## Just a point of clarification, you're 12 

## talking about special voting here. I assume that's 13 

## not participating by webinar and voting. I mean are 14 

## you anticipating being able to vote via webinar if 15 

## you cannot be here in person? 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, we do vote by webinar. 17 

## MR. TOPPING: Okay. 18 

## MR. HAGERMAN: We really prefer you to be 19 

## here. 20 

## MR. TOPPING: I understand. That issue 21 

## with special I wasn't sure what "special voting" 22 

## meant.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Tim, you had something? 2 

## MR. BALLO: This is Tim with Earth 3 

## Justice. 4 

## I'm still not quite clear on that. 5 

## Special voting? 6 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We can eliminate voting. 7 

## MR. BALLO: Because it seems if we're 8 

## going to allow voting via the webinar I guess it's 9 

## telephone or email voting is special voting? 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: How about striking 11 

## "special"? 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 13 

## MR. BALLO: Then my other question is do 14 

## we need the language at the end "As determined by the 15 

## working group and the facilitators" because if we're 16 

## going to allow it, then we just allow it and if we're 17 

## not then we're not? 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Well, then period after 19 

## weather? 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: This is two concepts. One 21 

## is proxy voting, which is we don't want somebody to 22 

## vote you. You know that concept. The other one ifASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## we eliminate the language. Yes. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: How does that look to 3 

## everyone? 4 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill at GE. 5 

## I would think you could eliminate 6 

## everything starting with the word "however" and be 7 

## okay. 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Could you repeat that, 9 

## please? 10 

## MR. BROWN: Eliminate that second 11 

## sentence, starting with the word "however." 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Because we're allowing 13 

## voting by email and telephone. Some other groups 14 

## have wanted people to really be here, and they put in 15 

## different you know caveats. Yes. 16 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 17 

## I truly understand that, but there's 18 

## nowhere in this document where we say we allow that, 19 

## so it seems like this is where we're saying it's 20 

## permitted. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: That was my hesitation. 22 

## That's why I didn't hit the delete button yet.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. CLEARY: And if we keep it, we should 2 

## also add webinar, specifically, if that's our intent. 3 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill at GE. 4 

## I would just put in a different bullet 5 

## then, specifically, this bullet is referring to proxy 6 

## voting. And another bullet that refers to voting, in 7 

## general, and say that we allow in person, via email, 8 

## telephone, carrier pigeon, telegram, whatever. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so we modified 10 

## there a little bit there, right? We separated the 11 

## proxy voting from alternate forms of voting. How 12 

## does that look to everybody? 13 

## MR. BROWN: Bill with GE. 14 

## It doesn't make sense with the parentheses 15 

## where they are. I mean I could take those out and 16 

## "voting may be allowed." 17 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. 18 

## I think it should just say "voting as 19 

## permitted by" and then "be in person". 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Voting is permitted in 21 

## person, webinar, telephone, email. 22 

## MS. CLEARY: And Jennifer Cleary.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## Maybe if we you know want to ensure that 2 

## people are here, I think the intent of having the 3 

## extenuating circumstances portion was to indicate the 4 

## preference is to be here, so we should say that here 5 

## that the preference is to be in person. 6 

## MS. HOFFMAN: The preference is in person. 7 

## It's a preference as opposed to requirement. 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, how do those four 9 

## bullets look now? Let's see a show of thumbs if 10 

## we're okay with those four bullets. 11 

## (Vote taken.) 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Then let's look at 13 

## number three. Let's take 3A and "B" and then we'll 14 

## do "C." 15 

## MR. HAGERMAN: And you should remind -- 16 

## Javier, you should remind everybody that what you 17 

## like to do here is to vote on each paragraph, and 18 

## then when we come to the whole document re-vote on 19 

## the whole document. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Right, just to make sure 21 

## that we're all good with everything. So, we have to 22 

## eat the elephant one bite at a time, so that's allASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## we're trying to do is to clarify. 2 

## All right, so then let's look at 3A and 3 

## "B." 4 

## (Working group review bullets.) 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any questions or comments on 6 

## "A" and "B"? 7 

## (No response.) 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let's see a show of thumbs 9 

## if you're okay with "A" and "B," 3A and "B." 10 

## (Vote taken.) 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. So, we're good there. 12 

## And then let's look at C1, 2, 3, and 4. 13 

## (Working group review bullets.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so what number to 15 

## we want to put in number one there, some number lower 16 

## than what was on the sheet there of 15 or if possible 17 

## a subgroup? 18 

## MR. MARCINIAK: Roland from U-Line. 19 

## I don't think that it -- if we're saying 20 

## that we can appoint somebody to these subgroups, and 21 

## maybe we have experts in this case that we're more 22 

## referring to that might have more value in theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## subgroups, I would think the more people the better. 2 

## I would see why we wouldn't go with as many as 14. 3 

## Each one of us could appoint a subcommittee panel 4 

## member to form this subcommittee and it might be 5 

## valid to have that many in a subcommittee because 6 

## they're not actually us, so I wouldn't see why we -- 7 

## why would we want to potentially limit ourselves ever 8 

## in that regard? 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, we'll throw 14 up there. 10 

## And you all determine, right, you all determine if a 11 

## subgroup is appropriate and who's on it. Any other 12 

## changes to 1, 2, 3, or 4? 13 

## (No response.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, let's see a show 15 

## of thumbs if you're okay with C1, 2, 3, and 4. 16 

## (Vote taken.) 17 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, we're good. Then 18 

## let's look at "D" and "E." 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: The deadline for "E" would 20 

## be August 31, August 30? 21 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman, DOE. 22 

## ASRAC gave us four meetings. I imagineASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## over four months, but we're going to do it in three. 2 

## (Laughter.) 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, on the last one, the 4 

## term sheet, go to ASRAC on August 30 as well? 5 

## MR. HAGERMAN: August 31. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any other changes to "D" or 7 

## "E." Charlie? 8 

## MR. HON: August 30 is a Sunday. The 28th 9 

## is a Friday. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: 31 is a Monday? Okay, so 11 

## let me see a show of thumbs then if we're okay with 12 

## "D" and "E." I'm sorry, Bill, you have something? 13 

## MR. BROWN: Yes. I have one question on 14 

## "D." Who determines if the negotiations do not 15 

## appear productive? 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: The default is DOE, I 17 

## guess, but we're not ever going to go there, all 18 

## right? 19 

## MR. BROWN: Well, I understand that, but 20 

## it's written in here. So, if it's going to be DOE, 21 

## I'd it like to say DOE will determine this, not you 22 

## know not Dick Topping or whoever else.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: I think the committee has a 2 

## right to determine it as well. 3 

## MR. BROWN: I mean can that be explicitly 4 

## written because right here it sounds like anybody can 5 

## come -- 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The working group or DOE? 7 

## MR. BROWN: You didn't say working group, 8 

## though, right? 9 

## MS. HOFFMAN: The committee is the working 10 

## group. ASRAC is the big one, but the working group 11 

## is this one. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: You, yes. 13 

## MS. HOFFMAN: You. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so we added DOE 15 

## in there as well. Any other modifications to "D" or 16 

## "E"? 17 

## (No response.) 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, let's see a show 19 

## of thumbs if you're okay with "D" and "E." 20 

## (Vote taken.) 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Let's look at number 22 

## four, and let's look at the first two bullets.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HAGERMAN: So, you need to amend these 2 

## -- everywhere where we say "standard" it should say 3 

## "standard and test procedure." 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. And where it says 5 

## "supplemental" just say "rulemaking." 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, so we've added test 7 

## procedures. And then where it says "supplemental" we 8 

## struck "supplemental" wherever we saw that. 9 

## MR. HAGERMAN: You need to say -- just 10 

## because the test procedure in NOPR is out, so when 11 

## the group comes to a consensus it will be a 12 

## supplemental, so it should say supplemental and/or -- 13 

## MS. BUTLER: This is Sarah Butler. 14 

## It should say "supplemental proposed rule" 15 

## and "proposed rule" because with the test procedures 16 

## it will be in the form of a supplemental proposed 17 

## rule. And for the standards it will be in the form 18 

## of a proposed rule. It should say "and." I mean if 19 

## we're planning on proposing both, then it should say 20 

## "and." 21 

## MS. CLEARY: Should "proposed rule" go 22 

## first because we are saying standards and testASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## procedures, so it would be parallel --. 2 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, proposed rule and 3 

## supplemental proposed rule. 4 

## MS. BUTLER: This is Sarah Butler again 5 

## from DOE. 6 

## So, then below it should reflect what's 7 

## above, notice of proposed rulemaking -- and 8 

## "rulemaking" is one word -- and supplemental notice 9 

## of proposed rulemaking. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And in this case, as well, 11 

## the same thing as this one, right? 12 

## MS. BUTLER: Yes. And the title of that 13 

## section should be "Statement as Basis for NOPR and as 14 

## NOPR." 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I'll give you all a minute 16 

## to look at that because that was an awful lot of 17 

## cutting and pasting going on. 18 

## (Pause.) 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And we're going to send this 20 

## to you as well so that you'll have it. 21 

## MR. MOUW: Nathan Mouw from Whirlpool. 22 

## And at the very end of both of theseASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## bullets we say the words "final rule." That is not a 2 

## possible outcome of this activity, right, so should 3 

## we scratch the "final rule" part of it. 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, or publication of final 5 

## rule, just end it at rulemaking. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, yes. However, I think 7 

## in the case of the test procedure I would like to 8 

## think that we're closer than we're farther. And so, 9 

## I think, as a group, we may want to final rule with 10 

## the test procedure stuff, but we can come back to 11 

## that after we've had the test procedure discussions. 12 

## So, let's just strike it here and we can come back to 13 

## it. 14 

## MS. BUTLER: This is Sarah Butler again. 15 

## If we did go to final rule with the test 16 

## procedure, we should probably be saying notice of 17 

## proposed rulemaking or supplemental notice of 18 

## proposed rulemaking if there's a possibility that we 19 

## wouldn't be publishing it as a NOPR. 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, we'll come back to it 21 

## after the test procedure. That's the one case that I 22 

## think this group may want to go to final rule, butASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## that's speculative, of course. 2 

## MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo with Earth Justice. 3 

## So there's a sentence there towards the 4 

## end of the long bullet, "DOE staff will be 5 

## responsible for translating this term sheet and 6 

## analysis into the language of a proposed supplemental 7 

## rule, its supporting preamble, regulatory impact 8 

## analysis, et cetera." I think it should probably say 9 

## will be responsible for translating this term sheet 10 

## and analysis into the language of proposed 11 

## regulations, their supporting preamble -- otherwise, 12 

## we have to go through proposed NOPR and proposed 13 

## SNOPR too. 14 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Charlie? 15 

## MR. HON: I don't think we could go 16 

## directly to proposed final rules because this has to 17 

## go to the general ASRAC Committee. It cannot go 18 

## straight out of here. 19 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary from Traulsen. 20 

## I also have a concern about on the test 21 

## procedure going straight to final rule without some 22 

## of the public that is not participating to beASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## weigh-in. We've had several final rules come out 2 

## with test procedures and we have some real concerns 3 

## with variances and we need to -- I think we need to 4 

## pay attention to that. So, I can't really see that I 5 

## would be able to vote for going to final rule. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Got it. I said 7 

## speculation. I should've said bad speculation. I 8 

## apologize. 9 

## MS. DANE: Well, I appreciate the 10 

## speculation, and my hope is that too, but unless we 11 

## can deal with some of those issues that you know keep 12 

## cropping their little heads up I can't say that I can 13 

## vote for a final rule on test procedures. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, let me be clear, do you 15 

## we need to reverse what we just did up here in that 16 

## first paragraph and keep it as a proposed 17 

## supplemental rule then? 18 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, I think we don't have 19 

## final rule up there, right? 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Everything up there is 21 

## correct. Everybody's just been commenting on my bad, 22 

## bad, bad speculation.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, Bill and Joanna. 2 

## MR. BROWN: Yes, this is Bill from GE. 3 

## Just kind of picky, you say "standards and 4 

## test procedure." I think it should be "procedures." 5 

## We are talking about at least two different types of 6 

## test procedures in this committee. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, what line is that? 8 

## MR. BROWN: Everywhere you mention "test 9 

## procedure" I think it should be "test procedures." 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, Joanna. 11 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer. 12 

## I was just going to say my understanding 13 

## is that this committee can make recommendations about 14 

## test procedures. We can make recommendations about 15 

## standard levels. I don't know that we can decide on 16 

## a DOE process. It seems like it's up to DOE to then 17 

## determine what's the appropriate process to implement 18 

## the recommendations that we're making on standards 19 

## and test procedures. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. And with that, this 21 

## language is okay then the way that we've modified it? 22 

## MS. MAUER: I think so.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 2 

## ASRAC, this working group, nor the parent 3 

## working group can make final rules. We just make 4 

## recommendations to the Department of Energy. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, I think we're all on 6 

## the same page there. All right, so again, I'm going 7 

## to give you a couple of minutes to look at that one 8 

## because we kept moving stuff around, so let's make 9 

## sure that we're okay with those first two bullets. 10 

## (Working group reviews the bullets.) 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Jennifer? 12 

## MS. CLEARY: This is so detailed, but I 13 

## think that when we just say "proposed rule and 14 

## supplemental propose rule" it's very vague. It 15 

## almost sounds like what we're anticipating is that 16 

## there could be both for one like the standards or the 17 

## test procedure. So, if we really want to be 18 

## specific, it probably ought to say "proposed rule for 19 

## standards and supplemental proposed rule for test 20 

## procedures" in each one of these cases just to 21 

## lengthen our editorial preference. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Could you repeat that? I'mASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## sorry. 2 

## MS. CLEARY: "Proposed rule for standards 3 

## and supplemental proposed rule for test procedures." 4 

## I don't know if others agree. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Anything else on those first 6 

## two bullets? 7 

## (No response.) 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, let's see a show 9 

## of thumbs then for the first two bullets. 10 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 11 

## I mean just to be maybe picky and maybe 12 

## somewhat factitious, but I mean the stakeholders have 13 

## been making the point to DOE for a long time that 14 

## test procedures should precede standards. And so, in 15 

## some respects, it would nice to word this whole thing 16 

## with the test procedures first and the standard 17 

## second. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, for my sanity, is 19 

## everyone okay with the way it is here? 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Sarah. 21 

## MS. BUTLER: This is Sarah Butler. 22 

## Not in the sentence that's highlightedASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## currently, but wherever we're referring to a Notice 2 

## of Proposed Rulemaking we should also refer to a 3 

## Supplemental Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. So, 4 

## you'll just have to have notice in there, yes, and in 5 

## the other paragraph as well. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And Dick, that editing 7 

## that's substitutive, right, what you're talking 8 

## about. That's more style than substance? I want to 9 

## make sure. 10 

## MR. TOPPING: Maybe I'll ask Jennifer to 11 

## answer that. 12 

## MR. CLEARY: I think it is substance. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, well let's get it 14 

## right then. So, can you repeat again, Dick, what you 15 

## wanted to do there? 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Why don't we do this, guys, 17 

## just real quick. Why don't we punt on this one 18 

## because I think we understand the intention is to 19 

## flip those, but it's going to take you time 20 

## mechanically flip them; but why don't you do that 21 

## over lunch, right, because we're getting close to a 22 

## lunch break? Why don't we see if we can't move on toASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## get some temperature votes or votes on the final 2 

## ones. And then after lunch, when you come back 3 

## you'll have mechanically flips all of those. 4 

## MR. WATSON: Fair enough. Do you mind 5 

## letting me know if the way that I have it now that is 6 

## how you want it "supplemental proposed rule for test 7 

## procedures and propose rule for standard." 8 

## MR. HAGERMAN: The intent there is the 9 

## test procedure gets written about first before you 10 

## talk about the standard. I don't know if there's 11 

## other places in the document where we need to re-look 12 

## at that. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: We'll do a search and see if 14 

## we could find it. So, then understanding that we'll 15 

## make that editing change are you okay then with first 16 

## two bullets of number four, show of thumbs? 17 

## (Vote taken.) 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, just so you know, 19 

## I was starting to put my hand on the ignition key. I 20 

## was about to spark up the steamroller and steamroll 21 

## Dick because if I don't see a thumbs down, we're 22 

## good.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## It's your responsibility -- and I want to 2 

## make it clear as the process goes on it's your 3 

## responsibility that if you're not in agreement to put 4 

## your thumb down and then state why so we can have the 5 

## discussion or offer an alternative, okay, because we 6 

## don't want anybody walking out of here saying well I 7 

## didn't agree to it. The only way you don't agree to 8 

## it is if your thumb is down, okay? All right, so 9 

## that's just a little procedure. 10 

## So, let's go at the next three bullets, no 11 

## negative comments, response to public comments, and 12 

## no adverse actions support. 13 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Well, if you add "the no 14 

## challenge," we're done with that. 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, there's one more 16 

## bullet, so let's hit the last four then. 17 

## (Working group reviews bullets.) 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so then let's 19 

## look at those last four bullets under number four. 20 

## Are there any modifications that you'd like to make 21 

## on those last four bullets? 22 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary from Traulsen.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## I would at least like to ask a question, 2 

## and that's about no negative comments and no 3 

## challenge and things like that. Will you be 4 

## recording the actual outcome of the vote because 5 

## somewhere -- 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. 7 

## MS. DANE: -- in between where we make a 8 

## recommendation and the DOE writes a rule it doesn't 9 

## always get to the final rule to the process that you 10 

## know we may or may not have a negative comment if 11 

## something we've suggested was overlooked. And I 12 

## don't see how you could take a person's right to you 13 

## know free speech away from saying that something 14 

## didn't work out at the end if you didn't record the 15 

## vote or who was the negative vote and who was. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: We will be recording all the 17 

## votes. 18 

## MS. DANE: Okay. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: But I do want to make clear 20 

## what we're recording is a yes or a no. So, if you're 21 

## sideways, that's a yes. So, we're recording that as 22 

## a yes.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. DANE: Okay. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: But if your thumb is down, 3 

## then we make sure that we mark that. Jennifer? 4 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 5 

## I think the comments we were just making 6 

## on the last section apply here as well, so when those 7 

## mechanical changes are happening over lunch you know 8 

## including test procedure and standards and all that 9 

## stuff should go in this section too. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right. We'll have eyes 11 

## on that as well to make sure we catch them all. 12 

## MR. BALLO: Tim Ballo with Earth Justice. 13 

## I guess this is clarification. I know the 14 

## way this has worked in the past in the reg negs I 15 

## participated in is as we go through the term sheet we 16 

## vote on sections of the term sheet and those votes 17 

## are recorded. So, participants may object to certain 18 

## provisions of the term sheet, but then there is a 19 

## vote on the term sheet as a whole. 20 

## And I think, as I read this, you would not 21 

## -- if you vote for the term sheet as a whole, you 22 

## don't then have the opportunity to renew yourASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## objections to those individual provisions of the term 2 

## sheet in your comments or in any litigation over the 3 

## final rule, and I'm okay with that. I just want to 4 

## make sure that's the understanding of everyone here. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Is everyone clear on that? 6 

## MR. TOPPING: Just a question, it's a 7 

## hypothetical, I guess, in terms of the no challenge 8 

## bullet. My understanding is we are to provide 9 

## recommendations to DOE. Those recommendations are 10 

## then vetted through public meeting, and then DOE goes 11 

## ahead and sets a final rule or ultimately. 12 

## I mean I know this isn't the intent, but 13 

## if DOE were to come up with a final rule that was 14 

## materially different than the recommendations of this 15 

## group would this prohibit us from objecting to that 16 

## or challenging it? 17 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I don't think so because 18 

## then it's not based on the term sheet. 19 

## MR. TOPPING: Okay. 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: What you're really talking 21 

## about here is everybody's negotiating on good faith 22 

## on this term sheet and we don't want you to negotiateASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## in good faith and when you leave the room you're like 2 

## those people are crazy, right? That's a bunch of 3 

## garbage, right? 4 

## MR. TOPPING: Right. 5 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, that the intent here. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, Mary, you good or 7 

## you have something? 8 

## MS. DANE: No, I'm fine. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Okay, I just wanted 10 

## to make sure. Okay. All right, so any other 11 

## questions or comments on those last four bullets on 12 

## number four? 13 

## (No response.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, then let's see a 15 

## show of thumbs then if we're okay with the last four 16 

## bullets? 17 

## (Vote taken.) 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, we're good. And 19 

## let's take a look at number five. 20 

## (Working group reviews bullets.) 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let's see a show of thumbs 22 

## then for number five if you're okay with number five.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## (Vote taken.) 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, then let's take a 3 

## few minutes and look at number six, all three 4 

## bullets. 5 

## (Working group reviews bullets.) 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Actually, I'm going to see 7 

## if we could strike the third sentence, "The summaries 8 

## of the working group meeting prepared by the 9 

## facilitator" because we all were kind of condensed 10 

## the timeline and Joe's going to be sending out the 11 

## full transcripts as soon as they're available. 12 

## Correct? 13 

## (No response.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any other changes? 15 

## MR. BALLO: This is Tim at Earth Justice. 16 

## You need to take out the next sentence as 17 

## well, "such meeting summaries." 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Thank you. 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, Joe, you'll be sending 20 

## out the transcripts? 21 

## MR. HAGERMAN: As soon as I get back a 22 

## good transcript from those dern (sic) transcriptASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## people, I will send it out to you guys. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: No pressure. 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, Joe, you'll be sending 4 

## out the transcripts? Correct -- Eileen Hoffman. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, any other -- Jennifer. 6 

## MS. CLEARY: I guess I just want to push 7 

## back a little bit on not getting summaries because I 8 

## guess I understand that that make take time for you 9 

## all to put together, but it strikes me that reading 10 

## the entire transcript on our end prior to the next 11 

## meeting will take more time. So, to me, it would be 12 

## helpful if we at least had some list of agreed to 13 

## action items or maybe we don't have meeting 14 

## summaries, but detailed agendas like today's agenda 15 

## was really not detailed. So, something with 16 

## descriptions of exactly what issues we will be 17 

## discussing to aid and ensure that we're all prepared. 18 

## We all understand what happened at the last meeting 19 

## and what we still need to decide going forward. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, how about a line of 21 

## detailed agendas will be sent in advance. 22 

## MS. CLEARY: That's fine with me. I lookASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## for input from others. 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Typically, what we do is 3 

## after these meetings we'll get assignments from the 4 

## working group to go do analysis or what not and 5 

## usually that's pretty clear at the very end of the 6 

## meeting what we are supposed to do. And then after 7 

## we do, those assignments, we usually send them Javier 8 

## and he sends them around to everybody before the next 9 

## meeting. 10 

## We're not trying to say we're going to 11 

## have one meeting and then everybody show up to the 12 

## next meeting without any kind of work being done, so 13 

## usually it takes us about 10 days to do the analysis 14 

## that's asked for and then end out stuff. 15 

## MS. CLEARY: Yes, that's sound perfect. 16 

## It just sounded like we were kind of taking that 17 

## away, so I wanted to make sure that that's still 18 

## contemplated. 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: What if you just said 20 

## detailed agendas and other supplemental materials 21 

## will be sent in advance of the meetings; is that all 22 

## right?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 2 

## Yes, that's fine with me, although I might 3 

## also ask that we have like a week or something to 4 

## review them before the next meeting. I don't know if 5 

## others would like more time. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: The only thing just in being 7 

## in some of these other ones is that depending on the 8 

## request we just may not be able to get that 9 

## turnaround where you'd have a week. I think the 10 

## intention is to get it as soon as possible, but we 11 

## just have seen tight timelines where they've gotten 12 

## it three days in advance or two days in advance, but 13 

## the whole idea is for you to have it and be able to 14 

## look at it and contribute to the next meeting. 15 

## MS. CLEARY: Yes. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And we would have to be 17 

## realistic of when those requests were made if they 18 

## can be done in advance. 19 

## MS. CLEARY: Yes, I certainly understand 20 

## that, and maybe this document isn't the place for 21 

## that; but my concern is that as a trade association 22 

## representative if I get something the day before IASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## can't be prepared because I can't contact my members 2 

## and you know and have their input on something like 3 

## that with a day turnaround time. So, I'm necessarily 4 

## need to see it in this document, but if we could all 5 

## have that mutual understanding. I think we all need 6 

## more than 24 hours at least to review something like 7 

## that. 8 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Absolutely. 9 

## MS. CLEARY: Especially, if it's detailed 10 

## analysis. 11 

## MR. HAGERMAN: We'll commit to that. As 12 

## soon as we can get the analysis, we will send it to 13 

## you and try to get it to you as quickly as possible 14 

## so you'll have that time. Lots of time in the past, 15 

## we'll send out the analysis and then you'll be 16 

## reviewing it. Somebody like you will be reviewing it 17 

## and they'll be like you know I need more analysis on 18 

## this one little detail, and so we quickly do that as 19 

## well. So, we're trying to be as responsible as 20 

## possible to keep up with the tight timeframe and to 21 

## make everybody as educated about these matters as 22 

## they need to be so when we come in here we can agreeASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## to things. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: We usually deal with that on 3 

## a request-by-request situation, so depending on what 4 

## it is you're looking for we'll have an idea before we 5 

## leave of when you'll get it. 6 

## MS. HOFFMAN: And also, when we set the 7 

## meeting schedule, we'll try to make sure that there's 8 

## time for all the data in advance. We'll be doing 9 

## that very shortly. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so anything else 11 

## on those bullets of number six? 12 

## MR. MOUW: Nathan Mouw from Whirlpool. 13 

## I agree with Jen on the value of having a 14 

## short summary of the meeting. I'm not sure that it 15 

## was capture in that change, things like Jen said, 16 

## decisions made, votes taken, even if it's a 17 

## one-pager, just something to communicate the actions 18 

## that were taken and the decisions that were made 19 

## within the meeting. 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Does that capture it? 21 

## MR. MOUW: Yes, just capture brief 22 

## summaries of the prior meetings. Yes. Thank you.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Any other modifications? 2 

## (No response.) 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, let's see a show 4 

## of thumbs then for those bullets at number six. 5 

## (Vote taken.) 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Now, number seven, 7 

## and this is something we've been talking about all 8 

## along that if we need to make changes we'll do them 9 

## at any time, right? So, let me see a show of thumbs 10 

## for bullet number seven. 11 

## (Vote taken.) 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, and number eight, 13 

## dates. 14 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Joe, you have some ideas 15 

## about dates? We want the maximum number of people 16 

## here. May 4 and 5 we are here. You voted with your 17 

## feet, which is great. Now, for June, what were we 18 

## talking, June 3 and 4? Is that good for you, Javier? 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Is June 3 and 4 possible for 21 

## everybody? Take a look at your calendars. 22 

## MS. CLEARY: June 3 is not possible forASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## me. 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: What about four and five? 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Four and five? 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Yes, that whole week may 5 

## not be good for me. 6 

## MS. CLEARY: Could I ask DOE or others who 7 

## have maybe participated in this type of process 8 

## before like could we expect that a lot of analysis 9 

## would be happening this meeting and the next, like 10 

## more than between other meetings or that you would 11 

## need more time? 12 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I mean that's a good 13 

## comment. At the beginning there's a lot less 14 

## analysis, right? So, I mean that's actually a good 15 

## observation. If we could it the week before, like 16 

## the end of May would probably be best, 27th, 28th. 17 

## The problem is that's Memorial Day weekend or the 18 

## week of Memorial Day. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let me make a suggestion. 20 

## What if we revisit the dates -- 21 

## MS. HOFFMAN: When we come back after 22 

## lunch?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Or maybe even at the end of 2 

## today or tomorrow let's see what we're dealing with 3 

## and then would schedule some dates. Is everyone okay 4 

## with that? 5 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Take your calendars with 6 

## you, yes, because I think we're looking at the end of 7 

## May, early June, then July sometime early and then 8 

## August, so two days in each of those months. 9 

## Correct? 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, then Joe, would you 11 

## mind explaining the lunch options. I know that we 12 

## have the Subway downstairs right next to the Dunkin 13 

## Donuts, but where's the cafeteria? 14 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I'm trying to think about 15 

## the easiest way to guide you to the cafeteria. So, 16 

## if you go to the ground floor of this building, I 17 

## believe there are signs that say the direction to the 18 

## cafeteria and you follow the signs to the cafeteria. 19 

## Basically, you go to the ground floor, walk around 20 

## the labyrinth maze and then you pop up in the 21 

## cafeteria. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: How much time do you need toASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## get lost and eat and get back? 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I'm sorry. That's the 3 

## easiest way to explain it. 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Would it make sense -- it's 5 

## 12:30 come back at 1:30. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I think 1:30 would be fine. 7 

## And so when you get back, I'm going to have the 8 

## pronounce of the technical PowerPoint that we're 9 

## going to give, and I'll pass those around and we'll 10 

## go through that with the discussion about coverage 11 

## and definitions. It's very similar to the public 12 

## presentations we've already made at the last two 13 

## meetings so that's what to expect. 14 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, 1:30 is good? 15 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I think 1:30 would be 16 

## excellent. 17 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Before you go though, let's 18 

## see one final show of thumbs for the ground rules as 19 

## a whole. We went through section-by-section, but 20 

## ground rules as a whole let's see a show of thumbs, 21 

## and we'll make those minor editing. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, see you at 1:30.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. HOFFMAN: Thank you very much. Enjoy 2 

## your lunch. 3 

## (Whereupon, a lunch recess was taken.) 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, one thing we 5 

## wanted to backtrack on really quick was on the ground 6 

## rules it wasn't quite clear that there may be two 7 

## tracks here, one of them for a proposed test 8 

## procedure and one of them for the proposed rule for 9 

## standards. And we just separate those so that way 10 

## it's clear that the rules apply to both and probably 11 

## even both individually. Is there any concern with 12 

## that? 13 

## (No response.) 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And right over here, if you 15 

## look at these three: No negative comments, response 16 

## to public comments, and no adverse action and 17 

## support. Those are the three areas where we -- I'm 18 

## sorry? 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, you just did this so we 20 

## wouldn't have like a real super long sentence; is 21 

## that right? 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, if we try to really getASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## exact verbiage it would probably be pretty long, but 2 

## the intent here is just to make that those two are 3 

## potentially separated. They can be separated. I 4 

## guess if the group has to really determine how you do 5 

## that, but realistically test procedures and the 6 

## proposed rule standards are probably going to be 7 

## handled separately. Any questions on that? 8 

## (No response.) 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Do you want to take a minute 10 

## and look at this and we could re-thumb it and make 11 

## sure that we're all okay with it? And we'll send 12 

## these out to you all as soon as we get the final 13 

## approval. 14 

## (Working group reviews bullets.) 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any questions on that? 16 

## Let's see a show of thumbs if you're okay with those 17 

## changes in the ground rules as a whole. 18 

## (Vote taken.) 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Then with that, the 20 

## next thing on the agenda is discussion of scope and 21 

## definitions. So, we're going to scope and 22 

## definitions.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman. 2 

## We'll start the scope and definitions. Do 3 

## you want to take a re-vote on the entire ground rules 4 

## or did we do that? 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: That's what we just did. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: All right, so I'm Joe 7 

## Hagerman, DOE again. 8 

## I've passed out a short little PowerPoint 9 

## on the rest of the materials today, the first part 10 

## being the scoping definitions. And I imagine that 11 

## this is just a quick refresher from the last public 12 

## meeting we had and of course all of the materials 13 

## that we've published from the Federal Register, the 14 

## preliminary TST and the NOPR as well. 15 

## So, I don't think in this short little 16 

## presentation here we're breaking new ground. It's 17 

## just a refresher course on sort of where we left it 18 

## last time, so I'm not going to spend too much time 19 

## going through this material, only to say as you know 20 

## I think that we're going to have a pretty thorough 21 

## discussion of this. We're looking for your feedback 22 

## on these definitions and of course this scope asASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## well. So, let's just get started. 2 

## All right, this is a good diagram of how 3 

## the miscellaneous products fall out in relationship 4 

## to the consumer refrigeration category and 5 

## traditional refrigerators, refrigerator/freezers and 6 

## freezers. 7 

## I've said this before. In my mind, the 8 

## miscellaneous refrigeration products all those 9 

## subcategories there are product types that have 10 

## common functions. And I think Charlie, at the last 11 

## public meeting, said they're all convenient devices 12 

## -- convenience devices for cooling, beverage 13 

## convenience devices. Is that what you called them? 14 

## MR. HON: Most of them are. Anything that 15 

## you have food storage -- perishable food storage 16 

## would not fall into that category. 17 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Okay. I can say that in my 18 

## mind they all have similar characteristics in terms 19 

## of they all have a heat pump, right, either 20 

## compressor-based heat pump or a solid state heat 21 

## pump, thermo electric device. They cool some medium, 22 

## whether that's air to make a cooled cabinet or waterASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## to make ice, and they all store the work product of 2 

## that heat pumping in some type of bin, whether it's 3 

## an ice storage bin or a cabinet, right? So, in my 4 

## mind, logically, they kind of all look and feel the 5 

## same. 6 

## No matter, under the miscellaneous 7 

## refrigeration products, we have these three big 8 

## product types: cooled cabinets, non-compressor 9 

## refrigerators, hybrid products, and then icemakers. 10 

## All right, just as a refresher, a consumer 11 

## refrigeration product is a refrigerated freezer, a 12 

## freezer, or miscellaneous refrigeration product. So, 13 

## this is how the previous definition existed. And so, 14 

## we propose amending the existing refrigerator, 15 

## refrigerated freezer, and freezer definition to have 16 

## a clearer structure and then we also proposed a 17 

## better definition for miscellaneous refrigeration, 18 

## which miscellaneous refrigeration is a consumer 19 

## refrigeration product, other than a refrigerator, 20 

## refrigerator freezer, or freezer, which includes 21 

## hybrid refrigeration products, cooled cabinets, 22 

## non-compressor refrigerators, and icemakers.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## So, a cooled cabinet is a cabinet it has a 2 

## source of refrigeration requiring electric energy 3 

## input and is capable of maintaining compartment 4 

## temperatures either no lower than 39 degrees or in a 5 

## range that extends no lower than 37 degrees, but at 6 

## least as high as 60 degrees, as determined according 7 

## to these provisions. 8 

## A hybrid refrigeration product and a 9 

## hybrid refrigeration freezer and a hybrid freezer or 10 

## a hybrid non-compressor refrigerator is generally for 11 

## all hybrid products at least half, but not all the 12 

## products refrigerated volume comprises one or more 13 

## cellular compartments. The remaining product 14 

## compartments would satisfy the definition for a 15 

## refrigerator, refrigerated freezer, freezer, or 16 

## non-compressor refrigerator. 17 

## And then a non-compressor refrigerator is 18 

## a cabinet that has a source of refrigeration that 19 

## does not include a mechanical compressor and 20 

## condenser unit, requires electric energy input only, 21 

## and is capable of maintaining compartment 22 

## temperatures above 32 and below 39. AndASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## non-compressor cooled cabinet is a cooled cabinet 2 

## that has a source of refrigeration that does not 3 

## include a compressor or a condenser unit. 4 

## I mean this should be pretty familiar to 5 

## everybody. An icemaker is a consumer product other 6 

## than a refrigerator, a refrigerated freezer, a 7 

## freezer, a hybrid refrigeration product, a 8 

## non-compressor refrigerator, or a cooled cabinet 9 

## designed to automatically produce and harvest ice, 10 

## but excluding any basic model that is certified under 11 

## that provision. Such a product may also include a 12 

## means for storing ice, dispensing ice, or storing and 13 

## dispensing ice. 14 

## So, some of the comments -- first, let's 15 

## just start. Any comments on that just to get 16 

## started? 17 

## (No response.) 18 

## MR. HAGERMAN: And I know that the 19 

## Navigant team, Troy in particular, has reviewed all 20 

## the comments that we got over these product 21 

## categories, and do you have anything else to say? 22 

## Did I leave out anything?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## MR. WATSON: No. 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Okay. And if there's a 3 

## technical question, I'm going to defer to my 4 

## technical team behind me. Is there any opening 5 

## comments that people would like to make? I just 6 

## going to read through here, let you see what other 7 

## stakeholders gave in terms of their feedback when we 8 

## released this notice. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie, do you have 10 

## something? 11 

## MR. HON: If you'd go back a couple 12 

## slides. 13 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Sure. 14 

## MR. HON: Slide Number 9. Charlie Hon, 15 

## True Manufacturing. Thirty-nine degrees could be 16 

## challenged because food code reads below 41 as a 17 

## refrigerant keeping fresh, perishable goods below 41 18 

## for safety and you're defining it as below 39. That 19 

## could easily be challenged. Even though my 20 

## engineering history tells me that 39 is better, we 21 

## have a legal question there. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any comments or questions.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## MR. HAGERMAN: And let's just keep this, 2 

## so I'm trying to think about what we're trying to do 3 

## here as a group. I mean I think everybody has read 4 

## this ad nausaem and I just read it to everybody 5 

## again, so that's not helping. It seems like this 6 

## group as a whole has to define these product 7 

## categories and come up with very clear definitions 8 

## for these product categories, right? So, by the end 9 

## of the next couple days, we need to, I think, as 10 

## group agree to this dividing up of the world or not 11 

## agree to this dividing up of the world and then what 12 

## the logic was or what the definitions around those 13 

## divisions are, right? Is that pretty fair? 14 

## So, Charlie just brought up that 15 

## everywhere we have -- I think, Charlie, what you're 16 

## saying is everywhere -- maybe you're not trying to 17 

## suggest that we change it 41, just let's start with 18 

## the conversation. Everywhere that we have 39 it 19 

## potentially may need to be modified to 41; is that 20 

## correct? 21 

## MR. HON: Yes, that's correct. 22 

## MR. HAGERMAN: And is that your proposalASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## is to change the 39 to 41 throughout? 2 

## MR. HON: I don't see any way to avoid 3 

## that without putting ourselves -- because the food 4 

## code says below 41 and that is federal information as 5 

## well. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie, you had mentioned 7 

## earlier that these products were items that were not 8 

## for perishable foods? 9 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Charlie, could you restate 10 

## that with the mike on? 11 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 12 

## The temperature ranges put it in a 13 

## category where it would sustain perishable foods, the 14 

## 39 below 37, 32 to 39, those are all perishable foods 15 

## temperatures, so there's also the question of -- then 16 

## we get into the non-perishable, such as wine cabinets 17 

## and things like that where you do not have to be 18 

## below 41 degrees Fahrenheit because there's a lot of 19 

## products, chocolates, lots of products do not 20 

## require, for food safety reasons, to be at below 41 21 

## degrees Fahrenheit. 22 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary with AHAM.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## I mean I hear what you're saying, Charlie, 2 

## but I think that that 39 degrees is well established 3 

## in the refrigerator test procedure, and my 4 

## understanding is that that's why this threshold is 5 

## being used here to differentiate these products from 6 

## refrigerators. And so, I would be very concerned 7 

## about changing the temperature here, which is going 8 

## to have implication in the refrigerator freezer 9 

## context that we're not discussing during this 10 

## rulemaking. 11 

## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 12 

## But on Slide 9, it says non-compressor 13 

## refrigerators. 14 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I'm sorry, Bill. 15 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill Brown with GE 16 

## Appliances. 17 

## This is the same definition as you'd have 18 

## for refrigerator that DOE has had in the past. The 19 

## same exact wording, so whether it's a 20 

## compressor-based refrigerator or a non-compressor 21 

## refrigerator this is just copying over the same 22 

## language we had for a compressor refrigerator.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 2 

## I have no objection to it as long as it's 3 

## consistent with previous DOE residential because in 4 

## commercial it's not quite like that. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so I'm seeing a 6 

## lot of bobbing heads, so are we okay, so far, with 7 

## what Joe has been reviewing? Any other questions? 8 

## Okay, Jennifer. 9 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. 10 

## What do you mean by okay? I mean I think 11 

## we have a lot to say about what he's gone through, 12 

## but I feel like you have a lot more to tell us about 13 

## what the comments were and personally I'd like to see 14 

## that before we dive in. 15 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Sure. No problem. So, now 16 

## I'm on page 11. So, the first big one is some 17 

## stakeholders commented that the proposed definition 18 

## required further clarification as to not allow the 19 

## use of the ANSI NSF and UL standards for food storage 20 

## equipment to be used as a loophole to avoid coverage. 21 

## And I believe this comment actually came from you, 22 

## Charlie, at one of the first public meetings.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. HON: It did. Charlie Hon, True 2 

## Manufacturing. 3 

## Because the NSF standards are actually 4 

## basically commercial in their nature and there was an 5 

## exemption in the original proposal which would allow 6 

## if it was NSF listed not to be under this standard, 7 

## which our company, as a whole, I think is 8 

## inappropriate. 9 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, I guess that would 10 

## relate to this previous slide here? You'd take issue 11 

## with "but excluding any basic model that is certified 12 

## under NSF"? Okay. 13 

## The second comment was one stakeholder 14 

## noted that the range of products covered by this rule 15 

## are not one type of consumer products. They're 16 

## designed and marketed for very different purposes. 17 

## So, I guess that's from the range of maintaining wine 18 

## temperature to the icemakers, right? The stakeholder 19 

## noted those are sort of different. 20 

## A stakeholder commented that 50 percent of 21 

## the seller compartment threshold to differentiate 22 

## hybrid products from other consumer refrigerationASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## products is an arbitrary cutoff. Feel free to 2 

## comment on these, people, you know if you so feel 3 

## compelled. All right. 4 

## Many stakeholders commented to oppose 5 

## DOE's grouping of the icemakers with the other MREF 6 

## products. They stated that icemakers serve a 7 

## different consumer need and are sufficiently 8 

## different in their operation from the other product 9 

## categories that grouping them is not appropriate. 10 

## One stakeholder pointed out that the 11 

## product definitions in the standard as proposed only 12 

## covers electric usage, whereas many of these 13 

## products, especially, icemakers also use a large 14 

## volume of water. 15 

## A commenter objected to using this 16 

## rulemaking to amend definitions for residential 17 

## refrigerators and freezers because those amendments 18 

## would effectively amend coverage and standards for 19 

## certain products. 20 

## Those were basically the big categories of 21 

## comments that we received. Troy, do you have 22 

## anything else to add?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## (No response.) 2 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So the key issues here do 3 

## the definitions of each product category need to be 4 

## amended in any way? How would the definitions for 5 

## these products be amended to best differentiate 6 

## between consumer products and commercial equipment? 7 

## Is the 72 degree Fahrenheit ambient temperature 8 

## appropriate for determining the compartment 9 

## temperatures when the products are used outside and 10 

## what not, inside? Are any clarifications needed to 11 

## better differentiate between a non-icemaker product 12 

## category? 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie? 14 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon, True Manufacturing. 15 

## There's also some items that have to be 16 

## discussed here because if it's a consumer product 17 

## it's under the Consumer Product Commission and if 18 

## it's commercial it is not, and as such, labeling 19 

## requirements may be different. 20 

## Quite often, the certifications under 21 

## standards may be different, especially, UL and NSF 22 

## types certification, so there's nuances of differenceASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## how you classify these products, but if they're 2 

## classified as residential there's additional 3 

## governmental regulation involved, not just the DOE. 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Charlie, that's an 5 

## excellent point. And it's one of the points that I 6 

## brought up with General Counsel's Office when the 7 

## thermo electric discussion came up. If this group 8 

## decided that thermo electrics would be covered by 9 

## this rule, but then not set a standard for it or 10 

## recommend to DOE that we don't set a standard for it, 11 

## it would still fall under the jurisdiction of the 12 

## FTC, who may require them to put labels on their 13 

## products to tell consumers how much energy those 14 

## products use, right, so there are some consumer 15 

## benefits in that. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, let me ask the group on 17 

## that first question, do the definition of each 18 

## product category need to be amended in any way? 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Could we do this, Javier? 20 

## Could I offer this up maybe as an ice breaker? That 21 

## we take a temperature check with this nice diagram up 22 

## on the screen with how comfortable people feel aboutASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## just the overall divisions, right, yes, no? We're 2 

## not taking a vote for anything. We're just trying to 3 

## take a temperature check, right? And then, too, 4 

## after we do that we go through and say, all right, 5 

## how comfortable with the definition with cool 6 

## cabinets are you, up/down temperature check, right? 7 

## There seems to be a lack of conversation 8 

## here and I think this is a big area to converse on. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: What do you all think as far 10 

## as the diagram goes? Does the diagram make sense to 11 

## you all? No? Bill, what doesn't make sense about 12 

## the diagram? 13 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE. 14 

## The inclusion of icemakers with the rest 15 

## of the miscellaneous refrigeration products that is a 16 

## distinctly different type of appliance than the other 17 

## three that are listed, the other three perform a 18 

## similar function as a refrigerator, refrigerator 19 

## freezer, or freezers. Icemaker is a completely 20 

## different function, has completely different test 21 

## procedure. When DOE refers to it in its NOPR it's 22 

## always you know refrigeration products and icemakers,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## so DOE even notes that it is a different type of 2 

## product in its own literature. 3 

## So, that's one statement I would have is 4 

## that icemakers are completely different and should 5 

## not be included in the miscellaneous refrigeration 6 

## products. They may go under their own rulemaking, 7 

## but to include them with those other three we do 8 

## agree with that. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Jennifer and then Dick. 10 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary with AHAM. 11 

## I agree with what Bill said. I mean you 12 

## know icemakers make something ice. The other 13 

## products store things. They're totally different 14 

## functions, so while cooling is involved you know I 15 

## mean they're different. And so, I think -- that's 16 

## why I agree with Bill. 17 

## Also, you know I don't know necessarily if 18 

## this is important to this rulemaking or not, but I'm 19 

## still considering in my own mind whether cooled 20 

## cabinets and hybrid products necessarily fall under 21 

## like a -- need to be under a different definition 22 

## than refrigerator, refrigerator freezers or freezersASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## because I thought I remembered that the reason they 2 

## were being considered you know for a new definition 3 

## was because there's a question about the threshold -- 4 

## the statutory threshold for setting standards and for 5 

## coverage and that you know those two types of 6 

## products could either be included under a new 7 

## definition or under the existing definition of 8 

## refrigerator in the statute, and so I just know if 9 

## that will have implications. 10 

## I don't think that's important to discuss 11 

## today, but the icemaker point I think is critical. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. Dick, Mary, Tim, and 13 

## then Stephen. 14 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 15 

## Joe, I guess I was under the impression 16 

## that you might go through this presentation first you 17 

## know as you've done and then we could go back and 18 

## focus on individual pages because I think discussion 19 

## on this is probably at least the rest of today and 20 

## maybe today and tomorrow, so maybe we could just kind 21 

## of go through it, tee it up, and then go back and 22 

## deal with each particular you know page and bring upASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## the issues that we all might have. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: How does that work as far as 3 

## flow for you, Joe? 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Generally, that works okay. 5 

## I mean I think that the next big area I was going to 6 

## get through is product classes, right, I was going to 7 

## defer to Troy to go through those because it's a 8 

## little bit more technical in nature. And then I was 9 

## going to stop at the test procedures. I was going to 10 

## do coverage and the definitions and scope before we 11 

## went to test procedures, so it's only four or five 12 

## more slides. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: For product classes? 14 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Yes. I don't think those 15 

## are going to be new to you. I think it's going to be 16 

## more of what you already know. 17 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so then do we 18 

## want to get through these other comments and then 19 

## we'll go onto product classes? All right, let me get 20 

## Mary, Tim, and Stephen. 21 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary from Traulsen. 22 

## Building on kind of what Jennifer said, weASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## question those products, the cooled cabinets and the 2 

## hybrid products being under the miscellaneous 3 

## refrigeration too. The other thing is we've had 4 

## longstanding questions about the definition of hybrid 5 

## refrigerators and you know hybrid products and how 6 

## test procedures work for those. 7 

## So, we're probably want to discuss further 8 

## how those things come up with because the assumption 9 

## of how a hybrid refrigerator is defined in here is 10 

## not really how the test procedure needs to be done, 11 

## so that was our comment right now. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay, let me get Tim and 13 

## Stephen. 14 

## MR. BALLO: This is Jim with Earth 15 

## Justice. 16 

## I guess my objection is a little bit 17 

## different. I think the non-compressor refrigerators 18 

## are essentially refrigerators, refrigerator freezers 19 

## or freezers. They operate with a different 20 

## technology, but provide no -- they're not really a 21 

## unique product in the eyes of I think most consumers, 22 

## so those I think would belong over in the leftASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## category there. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Stephen? 3 

## MR. SCHAEFER: Steve Schaefer, Hoshizaki 4 

## America. 5 

## I also agree with Jennifer in that 6 

## icemakers are -- you know they do make a product and 7 

## we're going to have to see exactly how repeatable the 8 

## test standard is going to be for that because once 9 

## you get -- the reason why commercial stops at around 10 

## 50 is because trying to get the repeatability of a 11 

## very small batch of ice. If you lose one cube, then 12 

## you might not be able to actually sustain three 13 

## cycles simultaneously like that. So, I'm really 14 

## interested to see the test procedure for that and it 15 

## probably should be in its own special category. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, no other comments, let's 17 

## go onto the product classes. 18 

## MR. WATSON: This is Troy Watson from 19 

## Navigant. 20 

## And like Joe said, a lot of this 21 

## information you all have probably seen before. It 22 

## kind of just recaps what we had in the preliminaryASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## analysis and the test procedure NOPR. And product 2 

## classes, specifically, are mostly from the 3 

## preliminary analysis. 4 

## (Slide.) 5 

## MR. WATSON: So, this slide shows the 6 

## product classes DOE considered for the preliminary 7 

## analysis. You could see for cooled cabinets 8 

## everything was lumped together in a single product 9 

## class, so that includes thermo electrics, vapor 10 

## compression units, all different sizes of products 11 

## too. 12 

## (Slide.) 13 

## MR. WATSON: For non-compressor 14 

## refrigerators, DOE also considered a single product 15 

## class there. For the hybrid products, DOE considered 16 

## product classes that were analogous to the existing 17 

## product classes for refrigerators, refrigerator 18 

## freezers, and freezers; however, DOE was only aware 19 

## of products in 4 of those 40 product classes. So, 20 

## the analysis looked at those four specifically. 21 

## And then for icemakers, DOE considered 22 

## uncooled storage, cooled storage, and portableASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## icemakers, and DOE also proposed different 2 

## definitions for those product classes which are right 3 

## here. 4 

## (Slide.) 5 

## MR. WATSON: So, portable wouldn't require 6 

## a connection to a household water supply and instead 7 

## would use onboard water reservoirs to supply the 8 

## water for ice making. Uncooled storage icemakers 9 

## they would not maintain bin temperatures below 32 10 

## degrees Fahrenheit. And then the cooled storage 11 

## icemakers they would have refrigerator bins below 32 12 

## degrees. 13 

## And just to go back to the hybrid 14 

## products, these are the four classes DOE identified. 15 

## So, these are built-in standard size hybrid auto 16 

## refrigerators with automatic defrost, built-in 17 

## standard hybrid freezers with automatic defrost, and 18 

## an automatic icemaker, and compact hybrid auto 19 

## refrigerators with manual defrost and compact hybrid 20 

## auto refrigerators with automatic defrost. 21 

## So, that's what DOE has done already. We 22 

## received comments on these product classes. So, theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## comments were pretty mixed. Some stakeholders 2 

## expressed agreement with DOE's definitions and 3 

## proposed product classes for these classes. Some 4 

## stakeholders commented that the cooled cabinets would 5 

## require multiple product classes. And some of the 6 

## suggestions were separating out thermo electric 7 

## cooled cabinets or separating cooled cabinets by 8 

## cabinet volume into standard and compact and also by 9 

## built-in or freestanding similar to the splits for 10 

## refrigerators and refrigerator freezers. 11 

## DOE also received comments that icemakers 12 

## should further be split into additional product 13 

## classes based on the type of ice generated, and one 14 

## of the specific concerns was for products that 15 

## generate clear ice. 16 

## There were also some concerns about DOE's 17 

## mapping of the hybrid product classes onto the 18 

## existing refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and 19 

## freezer product classes. And the stakeholders 20 

## commented that even though DOE defined the 40 product 21 

## classes there's very few of these products actually 22 

## available on the market.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## And stakeholders also noted that it might 2 

## be better to divide the hybrids into product classes 3 

## based on the type cellar compartment incorporated, 4 

## specifically, referring to the type of compartment 5 

## door, whether it's clear or solid and the percentage 6 

## of total volume that's dedicated to that cellar 7 

## compartment. 8 

## So, that's what been done already and the 9 

## general feedback. And we have a similar set of key 10 

## issues here. Mainly, is there any need for DOE to 11 

## adjust the product classes that have been considered 12 

## up to this point? If so, if there's a need to 13 

## establish new product classes, what is the basis for 14 

## that? What's the unique feature or consumer utility 15 

## associated with that product class that then effects 16 

## the energy consumption for those products? 17 

## DOE would then need to define these 18 

## product classes in a clear way to differentiate the 19 

## products. And one thing to note here is that any 20 

## major revisions to the product classes would then 21 

## affect DOE's analysis to date downstream. So, if the 22 

## products are split out, then the preliminary analysisASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## numbers would have to be adjusted to account for that 2 

## new split. 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Any questions? Bill? 4 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown, GE Appliances. 5 

## Slide 16 talking about the product 6 

## categories the product category of non-compressor 7 

## refrigerators it says "The single product class" is 8 

## this an existing product class or a new one? 9 

## MR. WATSON: Troy Watson from Navigant. 10 

## These products currently aren't covered, 11 

## so this isn't existing. This is just what DOE 12 

## considered in its preliminary analysis, so it's just 13 

## one product class for all of the products that would 14 

## fall under the proposed non-compressor refrigerator 15 

## definition. 16 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE again. 17 

## So, would anticipate this falling into an 18 

## existing category? 19 

## MR. WATSON: I'm not sure I understand. 20 

## MR. BROWN: Well, it's a refrigerator, so 21 

## would you put this in the refrigerator category or 22 

## would you put it into a new category that you createASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## called non-compressor refrigerator? 2 

## MR. WATSON: So, as proposed, it would be 3 

## a new category separate from the existing 4 

## refrigerators category. 5 

## MR. BROWN: It doesn't read like DOE's 6 

## comments are putting this in a brand new category. I 7 

## mean it seems to lump this non-compressor 8 

## refrigerator in with other types of products that 9 

## form the same function. 10 

## MR. WATSON: So, going back to the slide 11 

## that Joe spoke to, these are the non-compressor 12 

## refrigerators that would fall under the new 13 

## miscellaneous refrigeration products category. 14 

## MR. BROWN: Certainly, if you look at the 15 

## definition of the non-compressor refrigerator, it 16 

## performs the exact same function as a refrigerator. 17 

## So, we're just asking if it falls under the same 18 

## product class as a conventional refrigerator, a 19 

## compression refrigerator. 20 

## MR. WATSON: So, based on the preliminary 21 

## analysis, it wouldn't, but that's up for discussion 22 

## with the working group.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Any other questions or 2 

## comments for Troy? 3 

## MS. CLEARY: This is Jen Cleary with AHAM. 4 

## I wondered if it might be helpful, and I 5 

## don't mean to put you on the spot, but if DOE counsel 6 

## could maybe remind of why it's being done that way 7 

## because I think it has to do with the EPCA definition 8 

## of refrigerators, right, and that the non-compressor 9 

## refrigerators don't fit into that. So, it might just 10 

## be helpful for us to all have the background as to 11 

## why you're proposing to do this kind of split. 12 

## MS. BUTLER: You know I'm going to talk to 13 

## Dan Cohen about this for the break just to make sure 14 

## I get it clear for everyone why it's broken out that 15 

## way, and then I'll come back to you with an answer on 16 

## that. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: That's Sarah Butler. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: What other questions or 19 

## comments? Charlie? 20 

## MR. HON: On Slide 19, it says -- second 21 

## bullet point -- "others commented that cooled 22 

## cabinets should be separated into standard/compactASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## built-in/freestanding product classes." I do not 2 

## understand the need for separation between built-in 3 

## and freestanding. If they're remote or something 4 

## else that's a different piece, but they're still 5 

## self-contained refrigeration in most categories. 6 

## MS. CLEARY: This is Jennifer Cleary with 7 

## AHAM. 8 

## That was our comment, so I can hopefully, 9 

## with the assistance of some of my colleagues, explain 10 

## that a little bit better; but those mirror the 11 

## product classes for residential refrigeration. Not 12 

## all of them, but there are -- that division between 13 

## both freestanding and built-in and compact and 14 

## full-size exists in those 40 some odd product 15 

## classes. And in our view, the same reasoning for why 16 

## those were identified apply to these products as 17 

## well, and so it made sense to us to marry those. 18 

## Whether it's built-in or freestanding and 19 

## the standard or compact can impact the energy and 20 

## also provide consumer utility, and so that was why we 21 

## made this proposal. And I'm sure others can expand 22 

## with more technical details.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Well, let me ask the group 2 

## this as far as looking at what we're trying to do 3 

## her; is there any low-hanging fruit? Is there 4 

## anything that you're looking at this and saying, yes, 5 

## that makes sense, areas of agreement? Jennifer? 6 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. 7 

## I feel like the reason we're getting a lot 8 

## of silence is because this is really complicated and 9 

## we're kind of talking about all these products in one 10 

## bucket right now, which, by the way, is part of the 11 

## problem with the proposed rule. So, I think it might 12 

## be more helpful to like pick one. You know whether 13 

## it's hybrids or cooled cabinets or whatever and start 14 

## talking about that; otherwise, I'm finding myself at 15 

## a loss of where to start. There's just too much to 16 

## say. We could probably talk for a whole day about 17 

## just one. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Does that make sense? Yes? 19 

## All right, so of these, still the same question, 20 

## which one looks like we might be able to reach 21 

## agreement on some or most of the aspects of it 22 

## relatively easy between the four of cooled cabinets,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## non-compressor refrigerators, hybrids, or icemakers? 2 

## And I'll eliminate icemakers, at least initially, 3 

## right, because it sounds like we need some detailed 4 

## discussion on that one. Dick? 5 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 6 

## Well, if we're going to start in the 7 

## nitty-gritty, we probably should go back to page 5 8 

## because I think there's some comments on page 5, not 9 

## to take them in any particular order I think there's 10 

## some concern with some of the definitional changes 11 

## that DOE has proposed; particularly, the idea of 12 

## defining a product based on its capability of 13 

## maintaining a compartment temperature at 72 degrees 14 

## ambient. This is a totally new concept and something 15 

## that I know several of us here have reservations 16 

## about. 17 

## MR. HAGERMAN: And you just explain that a 18 

## little bit? 19 

## MR. TOPPING: Sure. Can I put you on the 20 

## spot? Really Bill Brown has been involved in this in 21 

## the IEC for years, has done an incredible job. He's 22 

## kind of the resource that many of us rely on in termsASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## of temperatures, the impact of harmonization across 2 

## the world in terms of refrigeration. There's been a 3 

## lot of progress made over the past you know many 4 

## years, and there's some concern that some of the 5 

## things here may be counterproductive to that process, 6 

## so with that introduction. 7 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown with GE. 8 

## So, let's talk about the 72-degree 9 

## ambient. For many years, I've been on the IEC 10 

## Committee that has harmonized or sought to harmonize 11 

## the global test procedure for refrigeration test 12 

## products. And I hate to go back too much, but the 13 

## IEC test procedure before was at a 77-degree ambient, 14 

## had loaded cabinets, and was completely different 15 

## than what we have in the U.S. and Australia and some 16 

## other places. 17 

## We were able to harmonize our test 18 

## procedure with IEC, so now the rest of the world now 19 

## will be testing at a 90-degree ambient. And also, 20 

## some places can choose to test at a 60-degree 21 

## ambient, and that's for places with very low ambient 22 

## in their country or with heaters that have to warm upASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## the product when it gets down too low. 2 

## What we're doing here is adding yet 3 

## another ambient, another feature that would make our 4 

## test unique from the rest of the world. What this 5 

## also does for test labs where they're not really sure 6 

## what type of product they have or what certain 7 

## compartments can get to they have to run an 8 

## additional test. They'd have to run a test at 72 9 

## degrees to see if a compartment or sub-compartment or 10 

## pan or whatever got to a certain temperature to be 11 

## able to call it a hybrid product and then run the 12 

## test at the 90-degree energy test. 13 

## So, this is adding unnecessary burden to 14 

## our product. You've got the situation where a 15 

## product could reach a temperature at 72 degrees, but 16 

## then not reach it at 90 degrees. So then, you would 17 

## not be able to test that product even though you're 18 

## saying it's a covered product. 19 

## And DOE had covered this situation 20 

## somewhat in the 2014 DOE rulemaking where it 21 

## addressed -- I guess the term was "near freezer" or 22 

## even "near refrigerators" where if you tested aASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## product at 90 degrees and it did not get to the zero 2 

## degree for a freezer then you could not rate that 3 

## product. And now you're giving an exception here of 4 

## testing it at 72 it meets the temperature, but at 90 5 

## it's a covered product, so it seems to be going 6 

## against what DOE had just ruled in the 2014 7 

## rulemaking. 8 

## MR. WATSON: If I could just jump in 9 

## there. This is Troy Watson from Navigant. 10 

## Under the proposed test procedure, DOE 11 

## would bring back the extrapolation approach, where if 12 

## a product doesn't meet compartment temperatures at 13 

## the 90-degree ambient you would extrapolate back to 14 

## the standardized compartment temperature to give that 15 

## product a rating if it can maintain the temperature 16 

## at 72, but not at the 90 degrees. 17 

## MR. BROWN: Yes, this is Bill Brown with 18 

## GE again. 19 

## I mean the problem I see with that 20 

## approach, even when it was in the Appendix A-1, was 21 

## you're going to be rating it at an energy that it can 22 

## never possibly use, so that's the issue that I haveASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## with extrapolating test data. And one of the reasons 2 

## that, as an industry, that we prefer the 90 degrees 3 

## as it does add some robustness to the product. 4 

## You could certainly have a product that 5 

## could keep temperature at 72 degrees with doors 6 

## closed, but once you actually started using the 7 

## product they could never maintain the ambient. So, 8 

## that is one thing that you're covering with a 9 

## 90-degree test being able to maintain temperatures at 10 

## 90 degrees that you lose if you just look at a 11 

## 72-degree ambient. 12 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary with AHAM. 13 

## I think you know another point here is 14 

## that it seems like the 72 and doing this test you 15 

## know to determine what type of product it is is aimed 16 

## at getting to some kind of consumer 17 

## representativeness, but it doesn't do that. Yes, 72 18 

## might be a representative temperature for a consumer 19 

## home, but testing a product with no load and no door 20 

## openings in a 72-ambient conditioned room does not 21 

## represent how that product would actually perform in 22 

## a consumer's home at 72 degrees.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## That's the whole reason why the 90-degree 2 

## ambient temperature exist, to try and replicate that 3 

## you know actual consumer use without adding the test 4 

## variability that comes with opening the doors and 5 

## adding a food load. And so, really this 72 degrees, 6 

## in our view, is meaningless. This isn't really 7 

## telling us anything about where the product should be 8 

## classified. All it's doing is adding test burden in 9 

## our view. 10 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman. 11 

## Just a quick question just to follow up on 12 

## that, so do you feel like the loads in these devices 13 

## and the door openings in these devices are identical 14 

## to the regular refrigerator? 15 

## MS. CLEARY: No. And I think that when we 16 

## get to usage factors I mean that's a whole -- several 17 

## hours probably discussion that we can have as well, 18 

## and I think that's a piece we need to focus on too. 19 

## MR. HAGERMAN: But there's two parts in 20 

## that. There's usage factors, and then you brought up 21 

## the ambient temperatures too, so there's two factors 22 

## in usage ambient factor.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. CLEARY: Right, but they're intimately 2 

## tied together. 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Okay. 4 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, it's my understanding 5 

## that we need to figure out a number between 72 and 6 

## 90; is that accurate? How do we get there? The only 7 

## reason I say that is because Bill you had mentioned 8 

## the IEC was at 77? 9 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill Brown at GE. 10 

## This was the old test, the ISO test before 11 

## IEC. The ISO test was at 77 with a full freezer load 12 

## of packages, quite a bit different test. You're not 13 

## looking at the same things. We've got brass wheats 14 

## in our tests that look at air temperatures and you're 15 

## looking at the average compartment temperature. This 16 

## 77-degree test has packages that simulate meat and 17 

## you're looking at the warmest possible packaging in 18 

## the freezer, so that 77-degree test that's gone. 19 

## That doesn't exist any more anywhere on the planet. 20 

## Everyone's going to be using the 90-degree test that 21 

## we've got for IEC. 22 

## So, we're not looking at a temperatureASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## between 72 and 90. We're saying it should be 90 2 

## degrees. 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: This is Joe Hagerman at 4 

## DOE. 5 

## Just real quick, we're just saying -- a 6 

## little perspective here. We're just saying that in 7 

## the definition we're saying that the product is 8 

## capable of maintaining a compartment temperature of 9 

## 72 degrees, right? And then the further definitions, 10 

## we give more specificity to the temperatures of the 11 

## compartments. 12 

## MR. BROWN: So, this is Bill with GE 13 

## again. 14 

## A third party that is testing this product 15 

## that's never seen it before would have to run a test 16 

## at 72 degrees first, then run an energy test later. 17 

## So, I mean that certainly would increase the test 18 

## burden. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Dick? 20 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 21 

## I mean maybe it's obvious. I think the 22 

## important thing to realize is that no one isASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## suggesting that the 90-degree test is based on the 2 

## fact that people keep their houses at 90 degrees. 3 

## The issue of the 90-degree test -- and this test has, 4 

## what, 50, 60, 70 years of background of continual 5 

## evaluating and vetting, but the issue is by testing 6 

## at 90 degrees you ensure that the product has 7 

## adequate capacity to perform well in all sorts of 8 

## situations that people might encounter in the field. 9 

## And so, it's a bit of an acid test, but 10 

## it's there for a reason and that's to ensure that the 11 

## consumers are satisfied with the product. Any time 12 

## you start to consider changes to that test, you know 13 

## there may be reasons as time goes on, but they just 14 

## need to be done carefully. 15 

## I mean one of the issues with this whole 16 

## miscellaneous refrigeration rulemaking is so much new 17 

## is being proposed -- you know new products, new test 18 

## procedures. And I think there is a concern to rashly 19 

## do some of these things without you know adequate 20 

## data, testing, analysis has the potential of causing 21 

## problems in the long term with consumer products and 22 

## the value to consumer products as they perform well,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## admirably for all users over a long period of time. 2 

## And so you know that, in general, is an 3 

## issue. The 90-degree test you know has been kind of 4 

## the bedrock or the bellwether of refrigeration 5 

## testing for a long time. I think there's a concern 6 

## about changing without adequate thought or 7 

## justification. 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Jennifer? 9 

## MS. CLEARY: Jennifer Cleary. 10 

## We're also talking about two different 11 

## things, right? There's one proposal we'll talk about 12 

## later in the test procedure section about you know 13 

## different products being tested at either 90 or 72, 14 

## and that's not what we're talking about here. Here 15 

## we're talking about you know changing the definition 16 

## for refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezer 17 

## to indicate that you know this added clarification 18 

## that products capable of maintaining compartment 19 

## temperatures in a 72-degree ambient, but they're not 20 

## -- even though they're two different issues, they're 21 

## still connected because the same reasoning applies. 22 

## And let's also not forget that thisASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## rulemaking isn't a rulemaking about refrigerators, 2 

## refrigerator freezers, and freezers. This is a 3 

## rulemaking about miscellaneous refrigeration 4 

## products. And what we're proposing to do here is 5 

## change a different definition, which could have 6 

## implications and likely will have implications if 7 

## this proceeds for products that already have a 8 

## standard and already have product class 9 

## determinations. This could change those because this 10 

## is not consistent with current practice. 11 

## You know it could add a test, and it's at 12 

## a temperature that is completely arbitrary. So, you 13 

## know I think we need to think very hard about whether 14 

## we -- why this would be done? What would it really 15 

## accomplish? And in our view, it should be done at 16 

## all. It wouldn't accomplish anything, except add 17 

## test burden and confusion. 18 

## MR. HAGERMAN: This is Joe Hagerman, DOE. 19 

## So, if this number goes up or down or just 20 

## up, let's say -- I'm just logically trying to think 21 

## through this -- this would cause some refrigerators 22 

## to be cooled cabinets, right?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. BROWN: No. This is Bill Brown with 2 

## GE. 3 

## MR. HAGERMAN: What's the affect of this 4 

## temperature going up or down? 5 

## MR. BROWN: Currently, today this number 6 

## is 90 degrees. 7 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, if tomorrow this number 8 

## is 72? 9 

## MR. BROWN: Then you'll have the -- one 10 

## product class at 72 degrees, but you have to test -- 11 

## it won't reach that product class at 90 degrees. 12 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, that means some 13 

## refrigerators become cooled cabinets? 14 

## MR. BROWN: That's correct. 15 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Okay. And you said 16 

## something -- this is Joe Hagerman. One more 17 

## question, pardon my ignorance here. So, you said 18 

## when you do tests for energy tests you don't also 19 

## measure the cabinet temperatures? You said a second 20 

## ago that we'd have to measure the cabinet -- we'd 21 

## have to do a test to measure the cabinet temperatures 22 

## to see if we were able to achieve 72 ambient and thenASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## we'd have to run an energy test. You treat it as two 2 

## different tests? I'm just wondering. 3 

## MR. BROWN: It's basically -- this is Bill 4 

## Brown with GE -- the same test at two different 5 

## ambient is what I was referring to. 6 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Okay. All right. 7 

## MR. BROWN: So yes, it would be measuring 8 

## the compartment temperatures at 72 degrees, 9 

## determining what I am or whether I'm covered or how 10 

## I'm covered and then do the same compartment 11 

## temperatures at 90 degrees. 12 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Because this extrapolation 13 

## is not valid? 14 

## MR. BROWN: I think that's a different 15 

## issue. 16 

## MR. HAGERMAN: It's a different issue. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: This is Eileen Hoffman. 18 

## Can you tell us how DOE came up with the 19 

## 72 figure? 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, that I'm not too sure 21 

## on. I heard Jennifer say it was arbitrary. And to 22 

## me, I guess, without knowing the history there IASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## would agree with her it's arbitrary, although it does 2 

## look and feel a lot like my temperature at my house. 3 

## I can get back to you on that. 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay. 5 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I'm sure Ashley Armstrong 6 

## has a reason. Troy, do you have a -- 7 

## MR. WATSON: Yes, this is Troy Watson from 8 

## Navigant. 9 

## It's intended to represent typical indoor 10 

## conditions. 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: In order to look at 12 

## miscellaneous refrigeration, why would the definition 13 

## for refrigerator and refrigerator freezer and freezer 14 

## have to change? 15 

## MR. WATSON: Yes, so with the proposed 16 

## definitions for cooled cabinets and the other product 17 

## types, as proposed, they include this clarification. 18 

## And currently, it's not included on the definitions 19 

## for refrigerators, refrigerator freezers, and 20 

## freezers. 21 

## So, they need to be consistent with each 22 

## other because there's going to be a cutoff pointASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## between all of those different product categories, so 2 

## we need to consider them all on the same basis so you 3 

## don't have any overlap. 4 

## MR. BALLO: This is Tim with Earth 5 

## Justice. 6 

## But then couldn't you accomplish the same 7 

## thing by using 90 as the ambient temperature for 8 

## cooled cabinets as well? 9 

## MR. WATSON: I believe so. I guess that's 10 

## open for discuss. If you all feel that's appropriate 11 

## it's something DOE would definitely consider. 12 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Joe Hagerman, DOE. 13 

## I think it ultimately comes back to some 14 

## of the previous discussion, right? I mean it's part 15 

## of the calculation in terms of the usage factor. 16 

## It's not a single variable equation, I guess, is the 17 

## one we're looking at. 18 

## MR. WATSON: This is Troy Watson again. 19 

## I guess one potential concern with going 20 

## to the 90 degrees for determining compartment 21 

## temperatures is that for certain products in DOE's 22 

## limited testing -- I think it was typically theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## thermo electric products -- those weren't able to 2 

## achieve typical compartment temperatures in the 3 

## 90-degree ambient. Those were I think pretty 4 

## elevated compared to where the typical set points 5 

## would fall in a 72-degree ambient. So, that's one 6 

## potential concern there. 7 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Tim? 8 

## MR. BALLO: Yes. It sounds like we're 9 

## talking about a product that does not actually meet 10 

## any reasonable definition of a refrigerator and 11 

## trying to build a definition in a way that would make 12 

## it meet a definition of a refrigerator, which maybe 13 

## is not the best way of getting at the problem of 14 

## products calling themselves refrigerators when they 15 

## don't meet a reasonable definition for what a 16 

## refrigerator is. So, is there a way, other than 17 

## manipulating the definitions, that we can address the 18 

## problem of products that don't provide the 19 

## performance of a refrigerator? 20 

## MS. CLEARY: This is Jen Cleary. 21 

## We totally agree with you. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, you're talking about aASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## different class? 2 

## MR. BALLO: It may be a different class. 3 

## It may be that this is an issue for FTC or another 4 

## agency that regulates in this sphere to pick up. I'm 5 

## just leery of creating definitions that don't reflect 6 

## what products actually do in the field just to solve 7 

## a problem that could maybe be solved another way. 8 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Jennifer. 9 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 10 

## Yes, I agree. I think that regardless of 11 

## technology these products should be tested the same 12 

## way, and we shouldn't be -- your words were perfect, 13 

## manipulating the test procedure to try and help some 14 

## out who can't meet the temperatures for safe storage 15 

## for food, for example. And particularly, when you 16 

## consider the fact that the 72 degrees when -- you 17 

## know when there's no food load or door openings does 18 

## not represent a temperature in a consumer's home. 19 

## Ninety does that. These products are not going to 20 

## perform for consumers the way that consumers are 21 

## expecting them to. So, I agree. 22 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## I think we are also concerned about the 2 

## proposal to test vapor compression in thermo electric 3 

## cooled cabinets under different ambient temperatures. 4 

## For cooled cabinets I think in particular -- you know 5 

## we had suggested 72 degrees in our comments partly 6 

## because -- you know I understand the rationale for 7 

## conventional refrigerators why the 90 degrees was 8 

## developed, but it does seem to do a fairly good job 9 

## of representing field energy use while having a test 10 

## procedure that doesn't involve door openings and food 11 

## loadings. 12 

## But it doesn't seem like that logic 13 

## translates very well to cooled cabinets, at least 14 

## DOE's preliminary analysis concluded that if you test 15 

## at 90 degrees actual field energy consumption may be 16 

## just over half and so you're kind of testing at 90 17 

## degrees, in effect, applying an adjustment factor, 18 

## but that's actually too high for these products. 19 

## So then, we're applying a subsequent 20 

## adjustment factor to back down to something that may 21 

## better represent you know the consumption in the 22 

## field. So, you know it seems like we know thatASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## products are actually operated at a 90-degree ambient 2 

## in the field. Why don't we test them at a 3 

## temperature that's closer to how they're operated and 4 

## then, if necessary, you know apply some adjustment 5 

## factor to account for the, you know, limited door 6 

## openings or their heat loads. 7 

## And I think another concern, and DOE had 8 

## presented some test data of cooled cabinets at both 9 

## 72 and 90. And I think there was one instance where 10 

## at 90 degrees one product consumed 30 percent more 11 

## energy than another, whereas testing at 72 they were 12 

## essentially identical. So, I think we'd like a test 13 

## procedure that gives us a good reflection of how 14 

## products will actually perform in the field. 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Correct me if I'm wrong 16 

## here, so what we're trying to do here is identify the 17 

## different products, identify which, I guess for lack 18 

## of a better word, class they belong in, the test 19 

## procedure, and the standard. Correct? 20 

## MR. HAGERMAN: If you'd just go back to 21 

## this diagram, we're trying to figure out the 22 

## divisions between the left- and right-hand columnASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## here and some type of narrative definition. 2 

## MS. BUTLER: I just wanted to jump in -- 3 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Sarah. 4 

## MS. BUTLER: This is Sarah Butler, DOE -- 5 

## and answer your question about why we're not defining 6 

## these under refrigerators, refrigerator freezers, and 7 

## freezers. And I apologize. I didn't have the 8 

## statutory provision in front of me, so I just wanted 9 

## to go back and look; but I guess the best way to 10 

## answer your question is that there was some ambiguity 11 

## as to whether some of these products would actually 12 

## fall under that definition because the definition of 13 

## refrigerator and refrigerator freezer includes some 14 

## kind of food storage. 15 

## And so, there's a question of is wine 16 

## food; is it not food? So, that's why we categorized 17 

## things as we have, but as it sounds like you guys are 18 

## discussing now that's something that you should 19 

## definitely discuss in this negotiated rulemaking. 20 

## Does that answer your question? Okay. Yes. 21 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let me suggest this, I want 22 

## to try to see if we could capture it a little bitASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## different, and let's take a break because I want to 2 

## see if I could pull something else up on here to help 3 

## us look at the same thing. So, give us about 15 4 

## minutes and then we'll come back and we'll see if we 5 

## can't try to structure this conversation a little 6 

## better. 7 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We look forward to hearing 8 

## from some of you folks who've been stepping back, and 9 

## with your perspective. So, we may call on a few 10 

## people too. 11 

## (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so Ashley has 13 

## joined us, and I think she's going to be able to help 14 

## with some of the discussion that we've been having, 15 

## so let's have at it. 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm Ashley Armstrong. I'm 17 

## from DOE. 18 

## So, I think I need to hear a little bit of 19 

## the discussion to hear what the hang up is, but I'll 20 

## say DOE's intention with this twofold. One is to 21 

## clarify scope of coverage with regards to the 22 

## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezerASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## definition so that there's no overlap between that 2 

## and cooled cabinets; but also I think we see it 3 

## separately. Scope of coverage is different than test 4 

## procedures. Test procedures and the ability to 5 

## maintain test procedure conditions don't necessarily 6 

## link to scope of coverage; in other words, inability 7 

## to test doesn't necessarily mean you're not covered. 8 

## It's not a one-to-one thing for the 9 

## Department, so I don't think that you necessarily 10 

## need to look at the language as being exclusive or 11 

## needing to be identical to the conditions that are 12 

## reflected in the test procedure because I think we 13 

## were trying to do -- I would say accomplish two 14 

## different goals there. 15 

## So, can somebody just summarize for me the 16 

## couple of issues with regards to the 72-degrees 17 

## ambient that we've proposed as the distinction? And 18 

## I think we were saying 72-degree ambient as reflected 19 

## of fuel conditions, acknowledging that 90 degrees is 20 

## the temperature for which the test procedure for at 21 

## least refrigerators, freezers, and refrigerator 22 

## freezers is run for a variety of different reasons,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## which, in my opinion, have been well documented over 2 

## the years and there's no intention of modifying that. 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so Bill could I 4 

## ask you to summarize again the points you had made 5 

## with regards to issue with 90? 6 

## MR. BROWN: Okay, Bill Brown, GE 7 

## Appliances. 8 

## Some of the issues we had is the test 9 

## burden issue of a 72-degree test that you would -- by 10 

## a third party lab not familiar with the product would 11 

## have to test at 72-degree ambient to determine the 12 

## product class and then test at 90 degrees in order to 13 

## get the energy test, so it's an additional test in 14 

## that regard. 15 

## And the other pieces are I think you just 16 

## acknowledged you know that why you're testing at 90 17 

## degrees to begin with. Some of the things you're 18 

## accounting is not just the ambient itself -- not just 19 

## the door openings as well, but the food load into the 20 

## product, being able to still act like a refrigerator 21 

## when you see door openings and when the unit sees 22 

## door openings and food loads. So, just at 72 degreesASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## with no door openings that really is not how a 2 

## refrigerator is used. 3 

## It does have food loads. It does have 4 

## door openings. And just testing at you know what 5 

## ambient you expect to see does not capture those 6 

## added features which make a refrigerator a 7 

## refrigerator. 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, so thank you for 9 

## that. I think you kind of summarized why we see this 10 

## as two different things, one is scope of coverage and 11 

## intended use of a product. And I think guys intend 12 

## your products to generally be used at ambient 13 

## conditions, recognizing people are going to put food 14 

## in them. People are going to store different things 15 

## in them, and obviously they may see, depending on 16 

## where they are installed, they may see a variety of 17 

## different actual ambient conditions; but roughly 18 

## speaking, I think we could all agree that 72 may be 19 

## representative of an ambient condition they would 20 

## like see in the field. 21 

## Test conditions are different. We are 22 

## trying to simulate other things, as you so greatlyASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## summarized for me, with minimizing burdens. So, the 2 

## 90 degrees is a different animal altogether. It's 3 

## representative of ambient door openings, food 4 

## storage, a variety of different things, so I don't 5 

## think they need to be one in the same. 6 

## So, I guess the question for you is we 7 

## stated in previous rules that the definition of 8 

## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezer is 9 

## meant to encompass products that are intended to be 10 

## use for food storage -- I don't have it right in 11 

## front of me -- that are capable of operating over 12 

## this range of temperatures as described in our regs 13 

## when installed in the field, so how would you 14 

## translate that "when installed in the field" to a 15 

## hard line where you could draw a distinction between 16 

## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezer and 17 

## cooled cabinet. Really, it's just refrigerator, but 18 

## do you see my differentiation? 19 

## Though, I don't think our intention was to 20 

## increase test burden or make you test twice. That's 21 

## not necessarily what we were going for, but I think 22 

## what we are looking for is to draw a clear line onASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## intended use. And your intended use is for food 2 

## storage at ambient conditions, and those ambient 3 

## conditions are probably more reflective of 70-ish 4 

## than they are of 90-ish. The 90 is meant to 5 

## encompass additional things as a test reducing 6 

## measure and to increase repeatability. So, how would 7 

## you do it differently? 8 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill at GE. 9 

## I mean I would do it at 90 degrees. That 10 

## does take into account, not just the ambient but how 11 

## the product is used. So, if I cannot maintain the 12 

## temperature at 90 degrees, I certainly would not be 13 

## able to expect to maintain it at 70 degrees with the 14 

## doors being opened and food being introduced into the 15 

## cabinet. 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Anybody else? 17 

## MS. CLEARY: Yes. I mean I think Ashley 18 

## what our view was is that if the 90 is meant to be 19 

## representative of actual consumer use then 90 is 20 

## representative of actual consumer use, 72 is not, 21 

## unless all of a sudden the product has a load and has 22 

## door openings. So, I kind of feel like we're tryingASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## to get to the same point, and it's just that in our 2 

## view the reasons for the 90 degrees are exactly the 3 

## reasons why that should remain the same. 4 

## In addition to that, I think there are 5 

## some test burden considerations other than 6 

## potentially having to do the test twice, which, 7 

## namely, is that at least our members have told us 8 

## that they don't have the capability to -- like they 9 

## don't have one room that could do 72 and 90, so this 10 

## is a consideration for later as well, but it's not as 11 

## simple as changing the thermostat maybe like you do 12 

## in your house and this could and likely would require 13 

## manufacturers and certainly third-party test labs, as 14 

## far as we understand, to have to build a whole other 15 

## room potentially to satisfy this. It could also 16 

## decrease the number of products that they're able to 17 

## test in their lab. So, that's just a practical 18 

## consideration as well. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Joanna? 20 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer. 21 

## If I could maybe ask a question, which is 22 

## I think the 72 degrees came from the observation thatASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## some of these products can't maintain the target 2 

## temperatures at 90 degrees. So, if the definition -- 3 

## or if we didn't have this 72-degree provision and a 4 

## product could not meet the target cabinet temperature 5 

## at a 90-degree ambient what would happen to that 6 

## product? 7 

## MR. WATSON: This is Troy Watson from 8 

## Navigant. 9 

## I think that's bringing test procedure 10 

## issues again into that coverage issue. So, if 90 was 11 

## in the definition and the product couldn't maintain 12 

## 39 or lower, it would be bumped to a cooled cabinet; 13 

## but the reason we're proposing testing there isn't 14 

## necessarily because it can or cannot maintain 15 

## compartment temperatures. It's because we thought 16 

## the test results at 90 weren't representative of 17 

## actual use compared to the test results at 72 for 18 

## those products, and this is the thermo electric 19 

## cooled cabinets, not the NCRs. Those would be tested 20 

## at 90 also. 21 

## MS. BUTLER: So, I think to answer your 22 

## question directly it would just be bumped fromASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## refrigerators, freezers, and refrigerator freezers, 2 

## right? So, we're including a test condition in scope 3 

## of coverage. And typically, the way DOE does this is 4 

## just because you can't test doesn't mean you're not 5 

## covered. Just because you can't test something and 6 

## you don't meet the definition doesn't get you out of 7 

## coverage or ultimately having to meet standards if 8 

## standards are set. 9 

## So, it really comes down to prior to 10 

## including this what did DOE intend to do in its 11 

## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezer regs 12 

## when it established test procedures and standard. 13 

## And it always has been how they were intended to be 14 

## installed in the field or marketed to be used in the 15 

## field, not necessarily whether they could run the 16 

## test. If you can't run the test, you're required to 17 

## get a waiver. You know it doesn't get rid of your 18 

## responsibility to ultimately -- your regulatory 19 

## responsibility. 20 

## MS. MAUER: This is Joanna again. 21 

## So, I guess I understand the same thing 22 

## would apply if a thermo electric cooled cabinet andASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## you can't maintain the 55 degrees at 90 degrees you 2 

## couldn't be rated at a cooled cabinet, but a 3 

## manufacturer can sell that product. 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: It all depends on how you 5 

## structure the definitions, right? If the definitions 6 

## are ultimately establishing scope of coverage and you 7 

## include a test condition as part of that, then that 8 

## test condition has become part of you determining 9 

## whether or not you're in or out. 10 

## MS. MAUER: So, in that case, there could 11 

## be a potential loophole? 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: There could be some issues 13 

## there. 14 

## MS. MAUER: Yes. 15 

## MR. WATSON: This is Troy Watson again. 16 

## I think the proposed definition for cooled 17 

## cabinets doesn't have a minimum temperature that 18 

## product must maintain, so those only require that 19 

## it's below ambient and above the 39. So, I don't 20 

## think those would ever not meet the definition. 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: But just to go back to 22 

## this -- this is Ashley from DOE.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## So, if we were to change this, what 2 

## products are out there right now conceivably that you 3 

## would see a difference between 72 and 90? There's a 4 

## lot of manufacturers around the table, so what are 5 

## the products that we're talking about here that you 6 

## would see the delta? 7 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nate from Whirlpool. 8 

## Can you restate that differently? 9 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. 10 

## MR. MOUW: Different between what and 11 

## what? You mean that would cross over from one 12 

## category to another? 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Mm-hmm. 14 

## MR. MOUW: Okay. 15 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, are there any products 16 

## out there that would be capable of maintaining the 17 

## compartment temperatures in a 72, but would not in a 18 

## 90, and that are currently characterized or currently 19 

## under DOE's are characterized as refrigerators, 20 

## refrigerator freezers? Freezers doesn't matter. 21 

## MR. MOUW: I mean the only ones that I can 22 

## acknowledge are the ones that you found in theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## proposed rule, right, the cooled cabinets and the 2 

## non-compressor refrigerators that were unable to 3 

## maintain temperatures at 90. 4 

## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 5 

## There's also the question because at that 6 

## point then we could start engineering more efficient 7 

## products by reducing the capability of the 8 

## compressors and other componentry (sic). In which 9 

## case, we could make products that are presently 10 

## listed either more cost effective or more energy 11 

## efficient, but at the cost of falling into this 12 

## category. Put a small enough compressor and you 13 

## can't meet the original test. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, I think from DOE's 15 

## perspective we weren't trying to include a specific 16 

## test condition as Bill was seeing it. We were 17 

## actually just trying to put a hard line qualifying 18 

## what intended for residential refrigerator meant, 19 

## consumer refrigerator meant. 20 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill from GE. 21 

## Again, a third party lab who would they 22 

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## the product at 72? 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: How does a third party lab 3 

## determine if your product means the definition today? 4 

## MR. BROWN: Well, they test it at 90 5 

## degrees. 6 

## MR. ARMSTRONG: Testing doesn't define 7 

## scope of coverage. 8 

## MR. BROWN: I'm not sure what you're 9 

## trying to get at. I mean there's only one thing that 10 

## we're asking a third-party lab to do, which is to 11 

## give us an energy number. I'm not asking a 12 

## third-party lab to determine scope of coverage. So, 13 

## when you send a product to a third-party lab, they're 14 

## testing at whatever the reference temperature is with 15 

## the correct test. So, you're adding this requirement 16 

## that says it has to be able to meet these 17 

## temperatures at 72 degrees. 18 

## Well, the third-party lab doesn't know, 19 

## given the product, what it can meet at 72 degrees. 20 

## It maybe able to meet refrigerator temperatures at 72 21 

## degrees, but it cannot meet them at 90 and you saw 22 

## thermo electric products that did that.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley for DOE. 2 

## I think you just made my point as to why 3 

## while we were trying to qualify what scope of 4 

## coverage was we didn't propose a test. There's no 5 

## test in here that you guys have to run to determine 6 

## that it fits into this bucket. Conceivably, you know 7 

## when you design your products if it's capable of 8 

## maintaining compartment temperatures at a given 9 

## ambient condition. We were trying to provide some 10 

## qualification around that, though. 11 

## MR. BROWN: You're right. I would know 12 

## that for my product. Intertech, ARCSA or UL would 13 

## have no idea. 14 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 15 

## Yes, but DOE, as part of this change in 16 

## definition, brought up an issue that you know designs 17 

## are maintained is not adequate. It has to maintain. 18 

## And how do you know if it's going to maintain it if 19 

## you don't test it? 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I mean that's fair, right? 21 

## And if there became an issue in terms of enforcement, 22 

## I think we would, in and of ourselves test. ThatASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## doesn't necessarily mean you have to all the time. 2 

## You would know when you're designing, but if a 3 

## question came up over capability this is a clear line 4 

## in the sand. We thought we were qualifying how scope 5 

## of coverage is determined today. And like Bill said, 6 

## that scope of coverage isn't determined by a lab. It 7 

## should be determined by a manufacturer that knows the 8 

## attributes of its product. 9 

## MR. TOPPING: Can I just follow up on 10 

## that? I mean but the reality is what this requires 11 

## is units to be tested tested at 72 and tested at 90. 12 

## Right now with refrigerators they need to be tested 13 

## at 90, so there are additional tests required because 14 

## you know again a design too isn't good enough any 15 

## more. It has to be verified. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Jennifer? 17 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 18 

## Yes. And I guess I'm a little confused, 19 

## Ashley. I'm not trying to be cute here, but you said 20 

## that DOE didn't define the test procedure for the 72, 21 

## but that if DOE had a question you would test. So, 22 

## how would you test because manufacturers are going toASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## want to know that because they're going to want to 2 

## make sure that if you test they're going to get the 3 

## same answer that you're going to get? So, I feel 4 

## like that doesn't really make sense. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: We can definitely do that 6 

## to the extent that's what you're asking for. 7 

## MS. CLEARY: No, I'm not -- Jen Cleary. 8 

## We're not asking for another test. We're 9 

## asking not to have another test and we're saying what 10 

## you're proposing would require another test. 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I mean I really think it 12 

## gets down to the delta, right, in our opinion. So, 13 

## you guys want to convince us to agree to the 90 for 14 

## test burden reasons, but what I think we're trying to 15 

## understand is what that delta would be because we've 16 

## been very clear in some of the preamble statements in 17 

## our previous refrigerator regs that prior to the 18 

## introduction of the 72 degrees that you know we 19 

## determine scope of coverage as they are capable of 20 

## operating in the field when you know they are 21 

## deployed in the field, how you are selling them, and 22 

## that's not necessarily always at 90. So, that'sASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## where we were with that one. 2 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 3 

## I mean it sounds to me like we have a 4 

## common goal here and we're just you know not sure how 5 

## to get there. And I'm not sure I have an answer, but 6 

## it sounds a little confusing to me. You know on one 7 

## hand it sounds like DOE's expectation is that it 8 

## actually is designed to maintain these temperatures 9 

## at the -- but then also DOE has said they don't want 10 

## to say that. So, I think maybe we need a little more 11 

## clarity from you guys as to why. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley from DOE. 13 

## I don't think we're opposed necessarily to 14 

## only using designed. I think we've been questioned 15 

## about -- we've gotten questions specifically about 16 

## what designed means. And if you get into a certain 17 

## situation, there was some desire to have some 18 

## concrete attributes about what that design intention 19 

## was at the point of manufacture. 20 

## I can believe someone designed it to be 21 

## capable of operating at 39 and someone else may 22 

## believe they did not design it to be capable,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## regardless it was capable of operating at 39. 2 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary with AHAM. 3 

## I understand that difficulty, but it just 4 

## seems like as soon as you introduce the bright line 5 

## approach with this temperature, especially, you know 6 

## in a climate of increased enforcement we then 7 

## introduce the need for another test, which I don't 8 

## think anyone would want to double the burden, right, 9 

## that's already on manufacturers with an already 10 

## pretty burdensome test. So, I think the 90 is the 11 

## test temperature that's already being used for the 12 

## actual test. And I guess I'm a little confused as to 13 

## why that's not sufficient for DOE? Why it doesn't 14 

## accomplish both goals? 15 

## MR. HAGERMAN: This is Joe Hagerman, DOE. 16 

## Can I ask just a quick question, so 17 

## presumably, you sell your products to the consumers, 18 

## right, and most consumers do keep their houses at 72 19 

## and not 90. I understand that you do the test for 20 

## the regulation at 90 and you're worried about doing a 21 

## similar test at 72 because you're worried that your 22 

## product may not make it, may not satisfy theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## requirement, but that's the temperature that you're 2 

## selling the products to the consumers at, right? 3 

## I mean the consumers have their houses at 4 

## 72, so it seems like you shouldn't be worried if 5 

## you're selling those products to consumers that you 6 

## have any doubts that they're going to be capable of 7 

## maintaining these compartment temperatures, right; 8 

## otherwise, you wouldn't be selling them to consumers. 9 

## I guess I don't follow quite your logic of the worry 10 

## of your products operating in the consumer 11 

## environment that you're trying to sell them to. 12 

## And in fact, I mean if you wanted to I 13 

## think if you just added the clarification that 14 

## products are sold to the public to maintain 15 

## compartment temperatures at 72 I think we'd be fine 16 

## with that too because that sort of defines the in 17 

## field use, right? Does that make sense? Was that 18 

## clear? I see Tim smiling. Did I confuse you? Okay. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let me get Bill, Charlie, 20 

## then Nathan. 21 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown, GE. 22 

## Certainly, we're not afraid of testing ourASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## products at 72 degrees. The products that are out 2 

## there today we can certainly meet at 90 degrees, so 3 

## testing at 72 is really not a concern for whether we 4 

## can make that or not. 5 

## The issue seems to be for these extra 6 

## products that you're looking at covering now, say the 7 

## non-compressor refrigerators that can meet something 8 

## at 72 degrees that cannot meet it at 90. And as far 9 

## as 72 being the ambient it's used at, I mean I'll go 10 

## back to the DOE's on regulations, 430.2310, that 11 

## states the principles of interpretation applied to 12 

## the test procedure simulate typical room conditions, 13 

## approximately 70 degrees with door opening by testing 14 

## at 90. So, the DOE's own procedures say that 90 15 

## degrees simulates typical field conditions, not 72. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie, then Nathan. 17 

## MR. HON: He covered it. 18 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nathan for Whirlpool. 19 

## I guess maybe just a suggestion. I think 20 

## a lot of our conversations would be different if 21 

## we're talking about cooled cabinets versus if we're 22 

## talking about non-compressor refrigerators, and IASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## think in a conversation that maybe causing some 2 

## confusion amongst us all, whether we know it or not. 3 

## So, a suggestion would be maybe let's talk about one 4 

## and then talk about the next to understand the 5 

## perspectives on both of those and then come back for 6 

## a conclusion. 7 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Can I make one slight 8 

## modification to see if we're actually closer than we 9 

## are far? Why don't we just copy, Bill, what you read 10 

## to us right after "capable of maintaining compartment 11 

## temperatures" and then what you said. You said 12 

## something about 70 degrees and testing at 90 degrees. 13 

## I don't know what you're reading from. 14 

## MR. BROWN: Yes, this is Bill Brown. 15 

## I'm looking at 430.23, Section 10, that's 16 

## the statement in the DOE precursor. 17 

## MS. BUTLER: It's the products rated. 18 

## MR. BROWN: No, no, it's not on the 19 

## products rated. 20 

## MS. BUTLER: Sure it is. 21 

## MR. BROWN: I mean, specifically, it says 22 

## "The principles of interpretation should be appliedASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## to the test procedure. The intent of the energy test 2 

## procedure is to simulate room conditions 3 

## (approximately 70 degrees) with door openings by 4 

## testing at 90 without door openings." 5 

## I mean so this is saying that DOE's field 6 

## conditions are representative by 90 degrees with no 7 

## door openings, but at 72 degrees -- it's not 8 

## mentioned here, but 72 degrees would not represent 9 

## how a product is used in the field. 10 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nathan from Whirlpool. 11 

## If I could add, I mean it is, I think, all 12 

## of our intent to call a product what they are as used 13 

## by a consumer. And Bill, to your point, I mean, 14 

## again, separating cooled cabinets from 15 

## non-compressor. Non-compressor refrigerators are 16 

## refrigerators and would have, we could assume, 17 

## similar door openings to a refrigerator with a 18 

## compressor. So, it seems like you know we'd want to 19 

## treat the same way we treat our existing 20 

## refrigerators with -- sorry, vapor compression 21 

## refrigerators. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Both of those?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. MOUW: I guess what I'm suggesting is 2 

## you know defining a refrigerator as being able to 3 

## maintain a temperature you know at 72 ambient is 4 

## ignoring one of the key factors that drives the 5 

## performance that needed and that's door openings. 6 

## So, it seems like we want to say -- I 7 

## don't know how to say it here, but we want to say 8 

## could maintain a temperature as used by a consumer in 9 

## a typical environment, which turns out it's around 70 10 

## or 72-degree ambient, but it's also being opened many 11 

## times during the day. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Is that what you want me to 13 

## just write. 14 

## MS. BUTLER: Not exactly, but kind of, 15 

## yes. 16 

## MR. BROWN: Bill at GE. 17 

## I mean what I just read was DOE's 18 

## statement that 90 degrees simulates 70 degrees with 19 

## door openings. 20 

## MS. BUTLER: I think here's the reality 21 

## from DOE's perspective. Right now we have a 22 

## definition for which we have been enforcing theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezer regs 2 

## in terms of defining scope of coverage. Whether a 3 

## product should be subjected to those test procedures 4 

## and standards it doesn't have a capable of operating 5 

## or any associated temperature. And DOE has stated in 6 

## numerous rules that you know for the purposes of 7 

## defining that scope of coverage it's going to do so 8 

## by looking at its design to or intended use in field 9 

## conditions. 10 

## I don't think opposed to moving to a 11 

## capability definition that's different, such that 12 

## people realize that when we change that it will 13 

## change the scope of certain products out in the 14 

## market. It will move their buckets. They will now 15 

## not be a refrigerator, a refrigerator freezer. They 16 

## will be a cooled cabinet. And I think we would be 17 

## amenable to something like that because obviously 18 

## form an enforceability standpoint clearer lines are 19 

## better if this definition change comes in when 20 

## standards for these products are set. Does that make 21 

## sense? 22 

## I think you're hearing from DOE we'd beASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## agreeable to something 90 if that definition kicks in 2 

## with amended standards for these products with the 3 

## acknowledgement that it may cause some equipment what 4 

## is now considered to be a refrigerator or a 5 

## refrigerator freezer to be a cooled cabinet, but 6 

## otherwise would be covered some way. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I see some heads bobbing. 8 

## Are we getting closer to an understanding? 9 

## MS. CLEARY: This is Jen Cleary. 10 

## I think that's exactly what we were 11 

## proposing. I mean our concern was that this change 12 

## in the definition would cause that to happen and that 13 

## it shouldn't happen, that a change in this rulemaking 14 

## shouldn't cause currently covered products that are 15 

## currently complying with the standard to no longer 16 

## comply with the standard. So, you know we can keep 17 

## considering that. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, Tim? 19 

## MR. BALLO: I hate asking this question, 20 

## but it sure sounds like you're asking us is it okay 21 

## for us to backslide here potentially, and I think 22 

## that is the result. I guess let me ask a follow up,ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## though. If I'm a manufacturer and I want to pursue 2 

## the much larger refrigerator market by selling my 3 

## product and certifying it as a refrigerator, DOE, 4 

## however, tests it and finds that it doesn't meet the 5 

## definition of a refrigerator. It only really 6 

## qualifies as a cooled cabinet is there a 7 

## certification violation there? 8 

## MS. BUTLER: I mean ultimately they'd need 9 

## to certify with what the product they meet the 10 

## definition. So, if they haven't certified with the 11 

## correct product, then I have a feeling Laura might be 12 

## calling them -- letters, sorry, but ultimately, yes, 13 

## that would be an issue. They need to certify with 14 

## the product definition that they meet. 15 

## So, I mean it might be something you guys 16 

## need to think about what I put on the table. 17 

## Obviously, Tim's counter of is this backsliding? We 18 

## need to talk to counsel about, but I think that's how 19 

## you ultimately may be able to get what you want. 20 

## MR. MOUW: Yes, this is Nate from 21 

## Whirlpool. 22 

## I'm just curious about a little moreASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## discussion on backsliding. I guess I don't see how 2 

## that happens in this case, but just maybe if we can 3 

## facilitate some more discussion here. 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I agree with that Nathan. 5 

## I see it as more like side-sliding rather than 6 

## backsliding, right? You go from bucket jumping, yes. 7 

## MS. BUTLER: They call it bucket jumping. 8 

## MR. HAGERMAN: You go from a refrigerator 9 

## to a cooled cabinet. So, your hotel rooms no longer 10 

## have refrigerators in them. They have cooled 11 

## cabinets, right? 12 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nate from Whirlpool. 13 

## I personally don't see that as 14 

## backsliding. But again, this sounds like sort of a 15 

## pivotal discussion, so let's continue and see if 16 

## we're all on the same page. 17 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Well, let me ask Tim, what 18 

## you do think of that interpretation of side versus 19 

## back? 20 

## MR. BALLO: I mean it's a kind of unique 21 

## situation that we don't have a standard for cooled 22 

## cabinets yet, so I think it's premature to say it'sASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## definitely backsliding or definitely not backsliding. 2 

## It's just an issue I think we need to keep in mind 3 

## through the course of this because for DOE to, after 4 

## the issuance of a refrigerator standard, go back and 5 

## say well we're changing the definition of what a 6 

## refrigerator is and now products that formally 7 

## would've met that definition actually will have to 8 

## meet this -- will now qualify as some other products 9 

## that meets potentially a weaker standard sounds that 10 

## would be backsliding, but that's not necessarily 11 

## where this will end up, so you know I just think it's 12 

## another piece of the negotiations that's still in 13 

## play. 14 

## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 15 

## You mentioned one thing in there that if 16 

## we jump buckets I think that's part of our purview 17 

## here to clarify those buckets, what they really mean 18 

## because part of our ability is to also require maybe 19 

## labeling and defining products quite clearly for the 20 

## consumer. 21 

## I'm very troubled by what I just heard 22 

## that if I would go to a hotel room and I brought myASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## leftover dinner home and put it in the refrigerator 2 

## in the room it may or may not be food safe. And 3 

## that's something -- because effectively to me the 4 

## hotel is giving me something there which isn't 5 

## necessarily just to keep my soft drink cold, cooler, 6 

## but is actually put there so that I have some ability 7 

## to refrigerate a product. 8 

## And if they're putting in products that 9 

## really do not meet food safety that's a second issue. 10 

## And if we put something in the cooler cabinet's 11 

## bucket and it has to be labeled as a cooler cabinet I 12 

## think that term I think a lot of hotel chains will be 13 

## very serious about their idea of possible litigation 14 

## because they're putting something in there that 15 

## wouldn't meet the minimum requirements of the product 16 

## that's being placed. So, I think that jumping 17 

## buckets may be a good thing for the nation. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Mary? 19 

## MS. DANE: This is Mary from Traulsen. 20 

## I just wanted to touch on the issue of 21 

## backsliding. Like Tim, I don't see this as 22 

## backsliding because we have some categories that seemASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## to be all inclusive maybe too much so. I believe 2 

## what we're trying to do is clarify and get the best 3 

## definitions and the best test methods for the best 4 

## products. 5 

## I think it's only when we understand 6 

## what's covered by those things and how to cover food 7 

## safety and energy efficiency together that we get a 8 

## good rule. So, I just wanted to put my two cents in 9 

## on backsliding and how ^^^^ you know I don't even 10 

## know if I'd call it side-sliding. I think this is 11 

## better clarification of a group of products that is 12 

## confusing, at best, for some folks. 13 

## MR. HAGERMAN: So, Javier, let's take a 14 

## vote on this to see how far off we are? I'm sorry, 15 

## Charlie. I didn't see you. 16 

## MR. HON: I think there's one other thing 17 

## that needs to be discussed here and that's an 18 

## additional portion of the regulations, which is the 19 

## waiver process. And there is an opportunity for 20 

## companies to do a waiver process. I think Ashley 21 

## would be much more adept at describing the waiver 22 

## process than myself, but there are processes whichASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## will allow certain things to happen. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, then as far as the 3 

## definition, Joe, I'm going to let you do the wording. 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: I was thinking that we'd 5 

## just -- we're voting on that second bullet there and 6 

## changing the 70 to 90. 7 

## MS. CLEARY: Are we voting voting or 8 

## taking a temperature? Not the temperature of 70 9 

## versus 90, but the temperature of the room. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Well, let me ask what would 11 

## be the hesitation with voting on that versus a 12 

## temperature check if it's at 90? 13 

## MS. CLEARY: I think there's been some 14 

## comments raised about is this backsliding and you 15 

## know bucket jumping that maybe some of us might need 16 

## to think through a little bit more. 17 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And I thought that, at least 18 

## from ^^^^ 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: You brought up the term. 20 

## MR. BALLO: I have backsliding concerns. 21 

## I'm not ready to say it's for sure backsliding 22 

## because it may not be.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. Because that would 2 

## be on ultimate standards that develop, right? So, 3 

## but at least for now we're just trying to capture the 4 

## definition and so again, what would be the concern 5 

## with a temperature check versus an actual -- is this 6 

## good enough? 7 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer. 8 

## I have to admit that I'm a little bit 9 

## confused, so I want to understand what we're talking 10 

## about exactly. This clarification that we're editing 11 

## now is to the definition of refrigerator, 12 

## refrigerator freezer, and freezer? 13 

## MS. BUTLER: Correct. 14 

## MS. MAUER: Okay. So, we're talking about 15 

## changes to a definition that applies to a lot of 16 

## products that are already covered and have standards. 17 

## Okay. 18 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: You're going to take some 19 

## types ^^^^ so right now the way DOE has been 20 

## enforcing scope of coverage as it relates to 21 

## refrigerator freezer you know the language in the 22 

## current definition, and I'm doing this looselyASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## because I don't have it right in front of me, but is 2 

## all around designed intent. It's designed to have 3 

## food storage. It's designed to be capable of 4 

## operating at certain temperatures, but there's 5 

## nothing with regards to ambient. So, we see that 6 

## design -- you design products for the consumer. You 7 

## design products for the use of consumer in their 8 

## houses. And we've acknowledged that that's around 9 

## the 70-ish with door openings and food storage, so 10 

## that's where we were going with this to maintain that 11 

## same intent. 12 

## If we were to change this at 90 you know 13 

## similar to tested conditions, we do believe there may 14 

## be a few products that would now be considered cooled 15 

## cabinets that could not maintain 90 test 16 

## temperatures. Right now, as Charlie mentioned, what 17 

## we would do with those is we would still call them 18 

## refrigerators, refrigerators freezers, and freezers, 19 

## but we'd tell if you can't maintain 90 you got to 20 

## give a waiver. You have to get a waiver for an 21 

## alternative temperature. You just don't not meet the 22 

## definition. I don't think that's the best way to sayASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## that. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Let me get Bill, then Dick. 3 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill. 4 

## I agree with the statement that they have 5 

## to go get a waiver. The energy regs state that if 6 

## you can't meet the temperature, then there's no 7 

## energy use rating. My question would have you 8 

## received any waivers from vapor compressor products 9 

## to test at a different ambient? 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley. 11 

## I'm not sure off the top of my head. I 12 

## know we haven't issued any, per say. I know we have 13 

## had some questions and some issues surrounding this 14 

## particular kind of touchy situation, let's put it 15 

## that way. 16 

## MR. BROWN: This is Bill again. 17 

## I recall one waiver that you denied. I 18 

## don't recall any of the -- 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: If it was capable at 20 

## operating at test conditions -- 21 

## MR. BROWN: Yes. I don't recall any that 22 

## the DOE granted.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Dick? 3 

## MR. TOPPING: Dick Topping, Sub-Zero. 4 

## Just a point of clarification, when we 5 

## talk about refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and 6 

## freezer are we talking about the products that exist 7 

## today that are regulated? Are we adding to that 8 

## non-compressor refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, 9 

## and freezer? 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Products that exist today. 11 

## MR. TOPPING: This is just for today? 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, let me ask the group are 14 

## you okay with taking a temperature -- not a 15 

## temperature vote -- an actual vote on this? 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, maybe I somewhat 17 

## misunderstood your question, but the 90 would kick in 18 

## later, right? 19 

## MR. TOPPING: No, no, the question I have 20 

## is that's -- ? 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. 22 

## MR. TOPPING: What about that?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: I think we're just talking 2 

## about refrigerators -- so this is specifically for 3 

## refrigerators, refrigerator freezers, and freezers. 4 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Just to go back, this is 5 

## the left bucket there, the one with the asterisk. 6 

## MS. CLEARY: This is Jennifer Cleary. 7 

## Is the reason we're wanting to make this 8 

## change now instead of doing what presumably will be a 9 

## test procedure revision in connection with 10 

## refrigerator standards because we want to make sure 11 

## it's clear for cooled cabinets? 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, that was yes. 13 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes. 14 

## MS. BUTLER: We want you guys to 15 

## understand what you're negotiating. 16 

## MS. MAUER: This is Joanna. 17 

## I guess I thought the route that maybe we 18 

## were heading down was looking at all of these 19 

## refrigeration products, including some that are 20 

## currently covered, some that are not and putting them 21 

## into two buckets, the buckets being refrigerators or 22 

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## that could maintain temperatures at 90 degrees would 2 

## be subject to the same standards as the current 3 

## standards for refrigerators, but I guess I'm unsure 4 

## of whether we're going down that path or not. 5 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Well, I think that would be 6 

## a next step is what do we do with the miscellaneous 7 

## refrigeration products. At least for right now, 8 

## we're just trying to define the refrigerator, 9 

## refrigerator freezers, and freezers. Is that the 10 

## understanding of everyone that we're dealing with 11 

## just that left side? 12 

## MR. MOUW: This is Nate from Whirlpool. 13 

## I sorry I guess maybe the question -- 14 

## Joanna, I don't want to put words in your mouth -- is 15 

## why is the non-compressor refrigerator -- I'll just 16 

## say these and not put words in your mouth. Why is a 17 

## non-compressor refrigerator separate than a 18 

## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, or freezer? 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Does that change the 20 

## definition, though, of what we're talking about? 21 

## Would that change this definition? 22 

## MS. HOFFMAN: No, not for refrigerator.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. And Jennifer, what 2 

## was that? 3 

## MS. CLEARY: What I think I hear Joanna 4 

## saying, if I can put words in your mouth too, is that 5 

## it may impact whether we're ready to vote right now. 6 

## It's part of understanding where we're headed. 7 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. Yes, Dick? 8 

## MR. TOPPING: Yes, Dick from Sub-Zero. 9 

## I mean Joanna makes an excellent point and 10 

## it may cause to kind of amplify the discussion at 11 

## this point, but we need to get to this point anyhow 12 

## and her question is a good one. Why would 13 

## non-compressor refrigerators be over on the right 14 

## side of this chart and not on the left side of this 15 

## chart? 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: I'm just giving Ashley and 17 

## Troy a little time to get you an answer on that 18 

## before we go back to that. 19 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Maybe I could just ask a 20 

## question. Is the definition on refrigerators, that 21 

## part, something that do -- that's what you're doing, 22 

## right, I mean isn't that the current definition.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. BUTLER: I'm sorry. It took me a 2 

## minute. So, at 6292.A1, "A refrigerators, 3 

## refrigerator freezers, and freezers which can be 4 

## operated by alternating current electricity, 5 

## excluding a type to be use with outdoors, any type 6 

## which does not include a compressor and a condenser 7 

## as an integral part of the cabinet." I think you 8 

## have to do it separately. 9 

## MR. BALLO: This is Tim. 10 

## And I disagree. That's not the definition 11 

## of a refrigerator for all purposes. That's the scope 12 

## of what is currently a covered product. If DOE adds 13 

## covered products to within its regulatory sphere, 14 

## you're not constrained to still obey that 15 

## identification of what EPCA of what NECA originally 16 

## determined was a refrigerator. It would be different 17 

## if it was in the definition section because it is 18 

## only identifying the covered product applicable at 19 

## that time. 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, we all agree that the 21 

## current test procedures and standards apply to 22 

## compressor-based refrigerators and refrigeratorASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## freezers. Correct? Tim's asking can we expand 2 

## coverage to that subset for non-compressor base 3 

## system, but still under the refrigerator freezer and 4 

## refrigerator freezer covered product category as well 5 

## as add coverage for miscellaneous refrigerator 6 

## products for which are non-compressor based and 7 

## cooled cabinets. Did I get that right? 8 

## MR. BALLO: I don't know if it really 9 

## matters how you slice that up provided that when the 10 

## standards get imposed on -- 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That's up to you guys. 12 

## That's what you're here for. So, I mean we opted to 13 

## do it as a separate covered product all in this realm 14 

## of miscellaneous refrigeration products. That was 15 

## what our proposed coverage determination and 16 

## subsequent preliminary analysis was, so that coverage 17 

## was meant to say that current coverage -- your point 18 

## is well taken and that's something if the committee 19 

## was really interested we could go back and talk to 20 

## our lawyers about, about whether we can expand 21 

## coverage and add coverage. But if you don't care, 22 

## it's probably cleaner for us to add a new coveredASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## product and then you can negotiate the product 2 

## classes and levels with separate definitions, but 3 

## that would mean that the current definition would 4 

## stand as compressor-based only so you could draw that 5 

## line. 6 

## MR. BALLO: Where I think it could be an 7 

## issue going forward is when you amend the 8 

## refrigerator standards because then you'd only be 9 

## amending the compressor-based refrigerator standards 10 

## and not the thermo electric and absorption 11 

## refrigerator standards. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I think you guys should 13 

## discuss this. We'd be happy to further investigate 14 

## whether that's a pathway if that's something that the 15 

## committee wanted us to do. 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Jennifer? 17 

## MS. CLEARY: I agree. I was going to say 18 

## the same thing, Tim, especially, if we -- I mean if 19 

## we all agree they should be treated the same that's 20 

## great for us to agree to that now, but then later the 21 

## standards change and they're different and is there 22 

## some way to -- I think because of the definition inASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## EPCA is there some way to define coverage for them, 2 

## but then have the same definition and wrap them into 3 

## the same regulation. And maybe we need DOE general 4 

## counsel to tell us that. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, we would need to take 6 

## that "ask" back and look into it. So, is it 7 

## generally speaking you would like refrigerators, 8 

## refrigerator freezers, and freezers, to the extent 9 

## they are compressor-based, which is existing regs, or 10 

## non-compressor based, which is potentially under the 11 

## purview of this committee is there a way we can 12 

## harmonize their regulatory, I will say, schedules? 13 

## If we can't do it under the same coverage, 14 

## but we can do it separate coverage and still align 15 

## their schedules to help with your concerns that one 16 

## would be amended versus end use. That one would be 17 

## amended and another one wouldn't would that be okay? 18 

## MS. CLEARY: Maybe. I guess what I was 19 

## really asking was could DOE define -- say, okay, we 20 

## want to cover this non-compressor products. Okay, 21 

## now we've identified that they're in our scope of 22 

## coverage. We're covering them, but now we're goingASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## to add them into our regulatory definition of 2 

## refrigerator, refrigerator freezer, and freezer and 3 

## therefore when the refrigerator rule is considered 4 

## then standards for non-compressor refrigerators would 5 

## also be set at the same time because they would then 6 

## be in the same product class as everything and they 7 

## would be included in the regulatory analysis as well. 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, I'll ask. 9 

## Typically, the General Counsel's Office frowns upon 10 

## regulatory definitions that are broader than our 11 

## statutory definitions, but I will ask them. I get 12 

## what you're asking. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: All right, so then what I'm 14 

## hearing then is that the best that we could do for 15 

## now is to take a temperature check on this one, 16 

## waiting to see what type of feedback you'll get back 17 

## from the General Counsel's Office. Is that what you 18 

## are thinking as well? 19 

## (No response.) 20 

## MR. RAMIREZ: So, let's just do a 21 

## temperature check on this and let's see a show of 22 

## thumbs if we're okay with this -- and this isn'tASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## something that's recorded. It's just for us to kind 2 

## of get an idea of where we're at and then we can come 3 

## back later. 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, can I make one other 5 

## -- I don't know if you -- sorry. I know I'm not 6 

## following the rules. 7 

## Does it matter if we haven't found any 8 

## non-compressor based refrigerators that can hold the 9 

## 90 and maintain temperatures? Does this discussion 10 

## matter any more? They go to cooled cabinets. 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie? 12 

## MR. HON: This is Charlie Hon. 13 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Excuse me. I think Charlie 14 

## has a response to that, unless do you have a response 15 

## to that? 16 

## MR. HON: I have one question. What's the 17 

## difference? If we know it's physically possible to 18 

## build them, why don't we just consider them now 19 

## because we know that there are -- those technologies 20 

## do exist, that theoretically we could build them, 21 

## especially vapor systems if we chose to build them? 22 

## It wouldn't mean that we could pass the test, but weASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## certainly know we could get the capacity there to run 2 

## at 90-degrees "F." 3 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Bill? 4 

## MR. BROWN: Bill Brown, GE. 5 

## I mean specifically on this slide the 6 

## bullet that says "Acknowledgement that it may cause 7 

## bucket jumping." If we're specifically talking about 8 

## the existing products today, vapor compression, I 9 

## don't agree with that bullet. There is no bucket 10 

## jumping for the existing products. They can all beat 11 

## this. What you're talking about there is the future 12 

## products that we're trying to regulate, the thermo 13 

## electrics possibly those would go, but it's not this 14 

## specific product that you're talking about. 15 

## So, if this is -- all we're talking about 16 

## is vapor compression, the existing products, I don't 17 

## agree with the acknowledgement that may cause bucket 18 

## jumping. If we're talking about the thermo 19 

## electrics, I totally agree with that, but again, 20 

## they're not in the bucket today so there is no bucket 21 

## jumping. They'll just be defined whatever they are 22 

## at 90 degrees.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MR. RAMIREZ: Nathan? 2 

## MR. MOUW: Javier, I was just going to ask 3 

## -- this is Nathan from Whirlpool. 4 

## I was just going to ask for clarification 5 

## on what the temperature check was on and was it on 6 

## the first main bullet, the second main bullet, or 7 

## both because I think, depending on the answer to that 8 

## question, we may have a different perspective. The 9 

## first bullet sort of separates refrigerator, 10 

## refrigerator freezer, and freezer from what has now 11 

## been termed a "miscellaneous refrigeration product," 12 

## and if we're unsure of what that bucket actually 13 

## includes, then it's hard to answer your question on 14 

## the second main bullet. 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Okay. 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Can I make a suggestion 17 

## perhaps? It seems like all this hinges upon what our 18 

## counsel's office may give us feedback upon what they 19 

## believe. At least DOE, at first quick glance, can do 20 

## and cannot do. Maybe we should take a 10-minute 21 

## break and let us try to get an answer to that. And 22 

## then depending on that, we can move forward.ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## MS. HOFFMAN: Sounds good. 2 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Back at 4:00. 3 

## (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 4 

## MS. BUTLER: This is Sarah Butler from 5 

## DOE. 6 

## So, we conferred on this issue, and we 7 

## believe that we have to create a separate product 8 

## class for non-condenser technology because it's 9 

## explicated excluded under the definition of coverage 10 

## under the statute. 11 

## We also think, just generally, it would be 12 

## cleaner to have all the requirements in the same 13 

## place. Ashley can probably explain that part better. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. So, I think the 15 

## answer to Jen's question, and perhaps Tim's, is while 16 

## I think legally we may be able to potentially modify 17 

## the regulatory definitions, although there's still 18 

## some uncertainty there for non-compressor based 19 

## technology, the other provisions in the statute, such 20 

## as the look backs and other flow down provisions are 21 

## going to be based on the covered product. 22 

## And since it has to be a separate coveredASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## product added through the new product coverage 2 

## provisions under 20, it's going to be much cleaner 3 

## from a practical standpoint to add a separate 4 

## regulatory definition for non-compressor based 5 

## refrigerators, freezers, and refrigerator freezers 6 

## because they wouldn't automatically be triggered 7 

## under the same schedule and everything else. With 8 

## that, I think people might want to think about this a 9 

## little bit. 10 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. So, let's do this, 11 

## let's continue with our discussion on the scheduling. 12 

## And then once we just get some dates out there, some 13 

## tentative dates then let's call it a day after that. 14 

## And then we'll come back tomorrow and pick up with 15 

## that and where we left off. Jennifer? 16 

## MS. CLEARY: Jen Cleary. 17 

## Can you just explain again why they 18 

## wouldn't trigger the same look back? I don't get it. 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, we believe we need to 20 

## add coverage under new product coverage at 20, right, 21 

## and so that in and of itself would set up a new 22 

## schedule for these products themselves based on theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## issuance of the final rule, et cetera, et cetera. 2 

## MS. CLEARY: So, the look back is based on 3 

## the coverage determination, not on the setting of 4 

## standards? Like you couldn't include it in the same 5 

## rulemaking? 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, it's going to 7 

## dependent upon how this committee ultimately -- the 8 

## look back is going to be kicked to the final rules, 9 

## right, that's how the look back works. 10 

## MS. CLEARY: Right. So, theoretically 11 

## then, if you did include in the regulatory definition 12 

## and address them in the same rulemaking then the look 13 

## back would be the same. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Except for I don't think 15 

## this is a -- you could find a way to harmonize the 16 

## schedules. You're not negotiating standards for 17 

## refrigerators, freezers, and refrigerator freezers 18 

## here today, at least compressor-based systems. I 19 

## think from our perspective, it's cleaner to do it 20 

## separately. And to the extent you want to align the 21 

## schedules, that's fine. There is some question about 22 

## whether we can have a regulatory definition that'sASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## broader than our statutory authority under our 2 

## definitions. So, there's concern there. I think 3 

## there's a strong preference that we do not go there. 4 

## MS. CLEARY: So, I guess what we were 5 

## proposing is that this committee wouldn't set the 6 

## standards for non-compressor refrigerators during 7 

## this negotiation. That it would leave -- we would 8 

## recommend that that be included in the next 9 

## rulemaking for refrigerators and then it would just 10 

## happen there however that process goes forward there, 11 

## whether it's the rulemaking or negotiation. 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Charlie? 13 

## MR. HON: Is it also possible that we 14 

## would put a future date on it for regulation so that 15 

## it was in parallel with the existing standard? 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, I think you can get to 17 

## -- so, the answer is yes. I think you could ask DOE 18 

## to consider ^^^^ I think DOE came to the table with 19 

## the intention of negotiating those standards here 20 

## period, so I don't know if that matters around the 21 

## table. 22 

## MS. CLEARY: This is Jen since I don't seeASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## anyone else talking. 2 

## I mean I guess this sort of addresses your 3 

## other question of, well, if now we're bucket jumping 4 

## and there might not be any products that fall here, 5 

## like what is there to negotiate now, but if we 6 

## include it in the other rulemaking then we can 7 

## address that in the technical analysis I would think. 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So, I don't think the 9 

## bucket jumping has anything to do with non-compressor 10 

## based systems because our current coverage is only 11 

## compressor-based systems. So, clearly, the bucket 12 

## jumping would only be compressor-based systems. But 13 

## I mean to the extent there is any, and Bill seems to 14 

## think there's not any, which he may be spot on there. 15 

## So, I think what we're really talking about is the 16 

## non-compressor based and how do they get lumped in. 17 

## And for DOE it's separate coverage determination and 18 

## then regulatory definitions that flow down from that 19 

## for which this committee can create to make sense and 20 

## to the extent you also set up a schedule that aligns 21 

## with other things or you end up discussing the 22 

## standards and come up with an approach that makesASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## sense within the committee that's for discussion, but 2 

## I think for the first purpose is establishing 3 

## definitions it's much cleaner to keep them 4 

## separately. And I'm not sure we're not required to 5 

## anyway. 6 

## MR. BALLO: So, this is Tim. 7 

## And let me propose, in lieu of having no 8 

## standards apply until the refrigerator standards are 9 

## completed, that we would adopt potentially a phased 10 

## approach to these products whereby we apply the 11 

## existing refrigerator standards to them immediately 12 

## and then designate them as being subject to the 13 

## refrigerator standards that are set in the next 14 

## refrigerator rulemaking. 15 

## Ashley just left the room, but maybe 16 

## that's one way of setting these up so that they can 17 

## be coordinated with the refrigerator standards. 18 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes. And I do think we 19 

## probably need a little bit more time to think about 20 

## that and chew on it a little bit before we try to 21 

## nail down any type of final agreement on it. 22 

## So, is everyone okay with the idea ofASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## continuing at least that portion of the discussion 2 

## first thing tomorrow? Everyone good with that? All 3 

## right, then as far as dates go -- 4 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Yes, we're going try because 5 

## we're looking for four meetings of two days each over 6 

## the next months -- several months through August. 7 

## So, a couple of dates I wanted to throw out June 10 8 

## or 11th -- June 10 and 11th? June 11 and 12th, 9 

## sorry. June 11 and 12th? So, think about June 11 10 

## and 12th, okay. I have others in June. 11 

## MR. RAMIREZ: And you know what, the other 12 

## thing to think about tonight is the possibility of 13 

## like say, for example, 11th and 12th if it would be a 14 

## little easier to have the first meeting start a 15 

## little later to allow some folks to just -- some 16 

## folks, not all, but some folks fly in early that 17 

## morning, do the meetings starting late morning, maybe 18 

## even go a little bit later into the evening, and then 19 

## finishing 3:00 o'clock or so the next day to allow 20 

## you to fly out the next day. So, for some folks it 21 

## could chop of one night's hotel stay. 22 

## MS. HOFFMAN: I have another one, June 15ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## and 16th. No good. 16th and 17th. Sorry, the 16th 2 

## and 17th. Yes? 3 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 4 

## ASRAC parent committee has a meeting on 5 

## the 17th, so 18th and 19th would be viable and the 6 

## 15th and the 16th would be viable. 7 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay, so let's just look at 8 

## the 18th and 19th. 9 

## MR. RAMIREZ: We're gone. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: That doesn't work for us. 11 

## Okay, July 9 and 10th or 8th and 9th? 12 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Before we jump to July, do 13 

## you all have a conference at the end of June? 14 

## MS. HOFFMAN: A trade association that 15 

## many of you would be at? 16 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Do you want to try to link 17 

## something up with that? I think it's in Atlanta. 18 

## MR. HON: Charlie Hon. 19 

## There's already three or four things 20 

## linked up to it, so I'm there three days before. 21 

## ASRAC goes from Saturday through Wednesday, and then 22 

## the Fourth of July weekend you're already at theASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## first of July. 2 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay, we tried. Okay, July 3 

## 8 and 9th that's the week after the holiday. Okay, 4 

## Charlie. 5 

## MR. HON: I'm in Europe on another set of 6 

## meetings. 7 

## MS. HOFFMAN: How about July 14 and 15th? 8 

## MR. HON: I can't make that. I could make 9 

## the ninth. 10 

## MS. HOFFMAN: How about 15th and 16th, 11 

## that's a Wednesday/Thursday? Can you do that, July 12 

## 15 and 16th? 13 

## MR. HON: If I arrive late on the 15th. 14 

## I've got something the 14th. 15 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, we could discuss that, 16 

## right? We could discuss about it a little bit later. 17 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay, but July 15 and 16th? 18 

## MR. HON: I could certainly do that 19 

## remotely 100 percent and start early. 20 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Okay, so July 15 and 16th. 21 

## August 10 and 11th or 11th and 12th? 11th and 12th 22 

## is better? Okay, August 11 and 12th. And then IASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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## threw in an August 18 and 19th if we needed it 2 

## because we've got the 31st as the deadline, August 18 3 

## and 19th. 4 

## So, we've given you, let's see, one, two, 5 

## three, four, five dates instead of four, but June 11 6 

## and 12th. 7 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Is there any reason why 8 

## we're waiting until June 11 for the next meeting? 9 

## MS. HOFFMAN: No. 10 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Could we do like 27th, 11 

## 28th, and 29th? 12 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Of May? 13 

## MR. HAGERMAN: Of May, to Jennifer's 14 

## earlier point there's usually less analysis and more 15 

## talking during this early stuff. And just keep in 16 

## mind too -- Dick just said he couldn't make the 28th 17 

## -- there's always an option to call in, right, so 18 

## just keep that in mind. 19 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Dick, would a call on the 20 

## 28th? 21 

## MR. TOPPING: Yes, I mean I could call in. 22 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Then the 27th and 28th?ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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### 1 

## MS. HOFFMAN: So, we're looking at the 2 

## 27th and 28th of May. We have June 11 and 12th. We 3 

## have July 8 and 9th, July 15 and 16th, August 11 and 4 

## 12th, and August 18 and 19th. We're not going to 5 

## pick all of them. 6 

## MR. RAMIREZ: Right. So, of those dates, 7 

## we'll lock three of those in. 8 

## MS. HOFFMAN: Jen. 9 

## MS. CLEARY: I don't need this on the 10 

## record. 11 

## MS. HOFFMAN: We can go off the record. 12 

## Thank you. 13 

## (Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 14 

## 4:23 p.m.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 235 **A A-1**  161:20 **a.m** 1:11 3:2 **ability** 71:7 179:4 205:18 206:6 **able** 21:7 24:10 56:8 67:10 73:9 87:1 93:14 106:5 120:8 120:13 148:12 157:20 159:17 160:11 ,17 162:9 169:22 173:1 178:13 180:20 183:13 184:16 190:16,20 200:2 203:19 224:16 **absence** 58:20 **Absolutely** 28:1 121:8 **absorption** 52:11 ,17 52:19,21 53:2 61:15 62:6 65:11 218:10 **abstain** 56:21 59:13 60:22 65:19 **abstained** 58:22 **abstaining** 56:22 61:2 **abstains** 59:7 **accelerate** 5:20 **accelerated** 24:18 **acceptable** 34:10,18 58:4,21 59:1 ,2 70:12 82:9 **accommodate** 78:19 **accomplish** 168:15 168:16 172:6 179:13 195:14 **account** 153:1 176:5 183:10 **accounting** 180:18 **accurate** 164:6 **accurately** 81:22 **achieve** 169:22 173:2 **acid** 166:9 **acknowledge** 188:22 **acknowledged** 180:16 210:8 **acknowledgement** 202:3 222:6,17 **acknowledging** 179:19 **act** 8:4 19:15 21:11 21:17 26:11 ,11 32:9 180:20

**action** 118:13 127:16 **actions** 112:12 122:17 **activities** 3:6 **activity** 104:2 **actual** 64:9 113:4 163:3 175:15 181:17 183:19,20 185:17 195:12 209:5 212:15 **ad** 135:4 **add** 25:22 45:22 52:4 53:9 80:4 81:2,3 85:14 96:2 112:13 140:22 162:3 168:11 ,16 199:11 217:5 ,21 217:22 220:1 225:3 ,20 **added** 89:15 101:14 102:6 167:17 181:6 196:13 225:1 **adding** 46:8 160:2 160:13 163:3 ,5 ,8 190:15 212:7 **addition** 91:8 184:4 **additional** 55:15 142:2 151:12 160:8 180:13 183:5 192:13 207:18 **address** 80:7 173:17 226:12 228:7 **addressed** 160:21 **addresses** 228:2 **adds** 216:12 **adept** 207:21 **adequate** 166:7 ,19 167:6 191:17 **adjourned** 234:13 **adjust** 152:11 **adjusted** 153:1 **adjustment** 175:17 175:20 176:4 **Administrative** 19:15 21:11 **admirably** 167:1 **admit** 209:8 **adopt** 21:5 229:9 **ADR** 19:18 **advance** 118:21 119:21 120:12,12 120:18 122:8 **adverse** 112:12

127:16 **advice** 81:11 **advisor** 11:17 12:17 **advisory** 16:2 17:17 17:18 ,20 25:5 **advocacy** 11:7 **advocate** 10:22 **advocates** 5:15 8:1 **affect** 152:21 169:3 **afraid** 196:22 **agencies** 19:16 **agency** 19:9 20:14 21:4,5 ,6 174:4 **agenda** 4:17 29:7 78:18 79:13 118:14 128:20 **agendas** 118:14,21 119:20 **ago** 169:20 **agree** 3:21 33:13 34:10,12,13 ,18,20 36:9 38:5 ,13 40:10 43:13 48:11 48:14 61:4 67:8 68:20 70:12 71:5 71:22 75:12 81:7 86:8 109:4 112:7 112:7 121:22 122:13 135:10,11 144:8 ,11 ,16 148:5 171:1 173:21 174:10,21 181:18 193:13 204:4 211:4 216:20 218:17 ,19,20 222:9,17 ,19 **agreeable** 202:1 **agreed** 24:7 54:19 80:13 81:22 118:12 **agreeing** 23:17 65:16 **agreement** 20:10 22:1 ,1 ,2 24:9 26:21 36:22 37:4 53:15 65:16 67:14 69:10 75:6 88:21 112:3 151:2 157:5 157:21 229:21 **agreements** 54:16 **AHAM** 2:13 28:10 28:19 49:17 136:22 144:10 155:3 156:7 162:12 194:2 195:2

**ahead** 15:19 16:1 92:21 115:11 **aid** 118:17 **aimed** 162:15 **air** 8:4 130:22 164:14 **align** 219:14 226:20 **aligns** 228:20 **allow** 36:6 37:22 38:1 42:3 70:20 94:8,16,16 95:18 96:7 138:18 139:5 208:1 230:15 ,19 **allowed** 96:16 **allowing** 92:15 95:12 **alluded** 54:22 **alternate** 32:14 70:9 70:9,13 ,21 71:1 ,6 72:3 ,16 73:1 ,13 85:7 ,21 86:3 87:9 88:2,5 89:12 92:13 ,14,16 93:2 96:11 **alternates** 70:8,12 70:15 71:15 ,20,21 71:22 72:18 73:7 73:8 84:17 ,21 ,22 85:4,15 86:15 87:6,13 ,16 88:1 ,2 89:12,15 **alternates'** 89:10 **alternating** 216:4 **alternative** 19:18 34:2 37:14 63:10 112:5 210:21 **Alternatively** 63:4 **alternatives** 33:19 88:20 **altogether** 182:2 **ambient** 141:7 158:14 159:9,13 159:19,21 ,21 160:3 161:13 162:7 ,11 163:2,21 163:22 167:19 169:22 170:5 172:7 173:3 ,5 175:3 176:1 179:17 ,18 180:11 180:18 181:5 ,12 181:17 ,19 182:3 183:2,2,10 185:5 187:19 191:9 197:9 200:3 ,10 210:5 211:9

**ambiguity** 177:10 **amenable** 201:17 **amend** 54:14,19 102:1 140:16,18 218:7 **amended** 141:4,5 142:18 202:2 219:16,17 **amending** 131:14 218:9 **amendment** 87:3 **amendments** 140:17 **America** 2:20 9:12 46:13 47:1 49:7 54:4 148:4 **American** 7:6,10 **amount** 8:2 27:8 61:3 ,5 **amplify** 215:10 **analogous** 149:16 **analyses** 30:1 **analysis** 12:22 13:1 13:2,8 22:11 ,14 27:21 28:17 29:13 29:16 55:10 105:6 105:8 ,10 119:4,13 121:10,12,15 ,17 124:8 ,14 149:1 ,3 149:7 ,20 152:21 152:22 153:12 154:21 166:20 175:14 217:16 220:7 228:7 233:14 **ANARF1** 11:15 **and/or** 51:5 102:12 **animal** 182:2 **ANSI** 138:19 **answer** 48:13 87:18 110:11 155:15 177:5 ,10,20 185:21 193:3 194:5 215:17 223:7 ,13 ,21 224:15 227:17 **anticipate** 153:17 **anticipating** 93:14 108:15 **anybody** 32:10 52:20 53:4,6 82:18 88:10 101:4 112:6 183:16 **anyway** 229:5 **apologize** 106:8ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 236 177:7 **Appeals** 13:17 **appear** 100:15 **Appearances** 2:1 **appeared** 79:8 **appearing** 23:16 **Appendix** 161:20 **appliance** 2:12,16 10:12 11:6 12:8 17:17 ,20 143:16 **appliances** 11:8,12 71:4 137:16 153:4 180:7 **applicable** 216:18 **applied** 9:9 197:11 198:22 **applies** 167:21 209:15 **apply** 89:11 114:6 127:10 156:16 176:4 186:22 216:21 229:8 ,10 **applying** 175:17 ,19 **appoint** 70:22 73:13 98:20 99:3 **appointed** 87:7 **appreciate** 3:16,17 106:9 **approach** 54:1 65:7 161:11 ,20 195:5 228:22 229:10 **appropriate** 38:5 ,16 55:21 57:1 ,8 99:11 107:17 140:9 141:8 172:10 **approval** 87:8 88:5 128:13 **approve** 37:2 87:15 89:19 92:18 **approved** 38:1 **approximately** 197:13 199:3 **arbitrary** 140:1 168:12 170:21 171:1 **ARCSA** 191:12 **area** 8:19 12:8 75:14 143:8 146:5 **areas** 53:22 54:6 127:17 157:5 **Armstrong** 14:7 ,7 171:5 178:16,16 181:8 183:16 187:4,12,21 188:9 188:13 ,15 189:14 190:2,6 191:1 ,20

193:5 ,11 194:12 209:18 211:10,19 212:1 ,10,12,16,21 216:20 217:11 218:12 219:5 220:8 221:4 223:16 224:14 225:19 226:6,14 227:16 228:8 **arrangement** 12:7 **arrive** 75:15 232:13 **ASAP** 2:17 **Ashley** 14:7 171:5 178:12,16 183:17 187:22 191:1 192:19 194:12 207:20 211:10 215:16 224:13 229:15 **asked** 45:10 76:4 119:14 **asking** 25:14 37:15 38:14 45:15 ,18 154:17 190:10,11 193:6,8,9 202:19 202:20 217:1 219:19 220:12 **aspects** 157:21 **ASRAC** 1:2 3:7 ,19 10:6 17:10,12,12 17:17 ,18 18:2,2,8 18:19,22 21:7 28:3 86:13 ,14,21 99:22 100:4 101:10 105:17 108:2 231:4,21 **assignments** 119:3 119:7 **assist** 22:9 **assistance** 156:9 **associated** 50:18 152:15 201:5 **association** 2:12 10:12 120:21 231:14 **assume** 70:10 93:12 199:16 **assuming** 73:12 76:11 80:16 **assumption** 64:16 147:8 **asterisk** 213:5 **Atlanta** 231:17 **attempt** 79:18 **attend** 53:2 **attendance** 90:3

**attending** 60:21 **attention** 35:19 106:4 **attorney** 7:22 **attributes** 192:8 194:18 **August** 5:20 26:22 99:20,20 100:4,5 100:8 125:8 230:6 232:21 ,22 233:1 ,2 234:3 ,4 **Australia** 159:15 **authority** 227:1 **auto** 150:15 ,18,20 **automatic** 150:16 150:17 ,18,20 **automatically** 133:9 225:6 **available** 24:16,20 70:22 71:9 117:11 151:22 **Avenue** 1:8 **average** 9:8 164:15 **avoid** 136:2 138:20 **aware** 24:4 149:18 **Awareness** 2:16 11:6 **awful** 103:16 **B B**  90:4,5 91:2 97:13 98:3 ,6,9,9 **back** 6:5 10:8 12:19 12:20 13:10 14:17 15:19 16:5 ,15 25:6,13 27:20 35:9,13 ,15 36:3 ,4 55:20 56:2,3 ,3 ,8 56:16 67:17 68:13 70:7 ,14 76:9 81:2 82:5 104:10,12,20 111:2 117:21 118:7 124:21 126:1 ,5 ,7 134:11 145:17 ,21 150:13 154:10 155:15 158:7 159:12 161:11 ,13 171:3 172:13 175:20 176:20 177:9 178:4,8 187:21 197:10 198:5 204:19 205:4 213:4 215:18 217:19 219:6 220:16 221:3

224:2 225:14,18 226:2,8,9,13 **background** 4:22 8:4 155:10 166:4 **backs** 224:20 **backslide** 202:21 **backsliding** 203:17 204:1 ,6,14 205:1 205:1 ,10 206:21 206:22 207:9 208:14,20,21 **backtrack** 127:5 **bad** 106:7 ,21 ,22,22 **Ballo** 2:10 7:21 ,21 40:18 70:16 89:6 94:2,7 ,13 105:2,2 114:12,12 117:15 147:14 172:4 173:8 174:2 202:19 204:20 208:20 216:9 217:8 218:6 229:6 **Baras** 4:4 **base** 27:10 217:2 **based** 115:18 151:13 152:3 154:20 158:12 166:1 217:6 219:10 221:8 224:18 ,21 225:4 225:22 226:2 228:10,16 **baseline** 57:19 **basic** 133:10 139:11 **basically** 19:16 20:8 20:17 21:3 ,12,16 22:9 23:16,22 29:7 33:8 66:18 67:1 125:19 139:4 140:20 170:3 **basis** 71:16 103:13 152:13 172:2 **batch** 148:11 **beat** 222:10 **bedrock** 167:4 **beginning** 74:3 124:13 **behave** 5:10 **believe** 43:22 45:13 51:7 53:3 88:16 125:17 138:21 172:9 194:20,22 207:1 210:13 223:19 224:7 225:19 **bellwether** 167:4

**belong** 147:22 176:18 **belongs** 89:9 **beneficial** 33:3 **benefits** 142:15 **Berkeley** 13:7 **best** 22:13 ,13 ,14 23:17 68:12,12 124:16 141:5 173:13 177:9 207:2,3 ,3 ,12 210:22 220:14 **better** 15:7 20:15 43:17 79:16 99:1 131:17 134:20 141:11 152:2 156:10 175:21 176:18 178:6 201:19 207:11 224:13 232:22 **beverage** 8:12 130:12 **beyond** 24:3 **big** 13:22 43:14 101:10 131:7 138:16 140:20 143:8 146:5 **biggest** 44:9 **Bill** 2:11 11:11 45:8 45:9 49:22 52:8 67:2,4,5 71:4 90:6 95:4 96:3 ,13 100:12 107:1 ,2 137:14,15 143:11 143:13 144:11 ,16 153:3 ,4,16 158:20 159:7 161:17 164:7 ,9 165:12 169:1 170:3 180:3 180:6 183:8 189:16,20 192:5 196:19,21 198:9 198:14 199:13 200:16 211:2,3 ,16 222:3 ,4 228:13 **Billings** 12:17 **bin** 131:2,3 150:9 **bins** 150:11 **bit** 4:22 8:19 25:12 25:17 26:16 28:17 32:22 33:21 35:22 36:1 42:9 43:20 50:22 55:3 70:8 72:2 78:18 96:10 118:7 146:8ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 237 147:16 156:10 158:18 164:12 166:9 177:22 178:18 208:16 209:8 225:9 229:19,20 230:18 232:16 **bite** 97:22 **block** 34:12,13 ,20 **Blockers** 34:1 **blocking** 37:13 **board** 31:9 **bobbing** 138:6 202:7 **body** 22:17 25:8 **bogged** 67:11 **boilerplate** 30:22 **Boswell** 13:16,16 **brains** 57:5 **brand** 45:11 ,17 154:6 **branding** 47:9,22 **brass** 164:13 **break** 14:19 15:4,6 17:6 22:19 55:22 56:1 ,7 57:5 ,12 110:22 155:13 178:1 223:21 **breaker** 142:20 **breaking** 15:2 129:16 **breaks** 14:16,21 17:3 36:11 **Brenda** 2:9 **brief** 122:21 **briefed** 73:9 **briefing** 3:12 31:6 **bright** 195:4 **bring** 4:12 57:9,11 81:5 145:22 161:11 **bringing** 86:21 185:9 **broad** 43:16 **broader** 220:10 227:1 **broken** 155:14 **brought** 57:13 135:14 142:6 163:20 191:16 205:22 208:19 **Brown** 2:11 11:11 11:11 45:9,9,15 49:22,22 52:8,8 52:16 67:5 71:4,4 90:6,6 95:4,10 96:3 ,13 100:13 ,19

101:3 ,7 107:2,8 137:15 ,15 143:13 143:13 153:4,4,16 153:16,20 154:5 154:14 158:20 159:7 ,7 161:17 ,17 164:9,9 165:12 169:1 ,1 ,5 ,9,14 170:3 ,4,7 ,14 180:6,6 183:8 189:20 190:4,8 191:11 196:21 ,21 198:14,14,18,21 200:16 211:3 ,16 211:21 222:4,4 **bucket** 157:10 191:6 204:6,7 206:11 208:15 213:5 222:7 ,9,17 222:20,20 223:12 228:3 ,9,11 **buckets** 201:14 205:16,17 206:17 213:21 ,21 **build** 12:12 173:11 184:14 221:18 ,20 221:21 **building** 1:7 125:16 146:22 **built-in** 12:10 150:15 ,16 151:9 156:2,13 ,18 **built-in/freestandi ...**  156:1 **bullet** 88:7 ,10 89:10 89:14,15 91:7 ,10 96:4,5 ,6 105:4 112:16 115:8 123:10 155:21 208:5 222:6,9 223:6,6,9,14 **bullets** 84:13 ,20 87:3 89:18 ,20,21 91:5 ,15 93:8 97:9 97:10 98:4,13 101:22 104:1 108:9,10 109:6,9 111:16 112:10,17 112:19,21 116:11 116:16,20 117:4,5 122:11 123:4 128:14 **bumped** 185:12,22 **bunch** 116:2 **burden** 160:13 163:8 165:18 168:17 180:9 182:20 184:5 193:14 195:8 **burdens** 182:1 **burdensome** 195:10 **business** 2:11 16:22 69:22 72:19,22 75:16 77:3 ,13 79:18 81:21 **busy** 5:12,14 **Butler** 2:7 30:8,8 102:13 ,13 103:4,4 103:12 104:14,14 109:21 ,21 155:12 155:17 177:2,4,4 185:21 198:17 ,20 200:14,20 203:8 204:7 209:13 213:14 216:1 224:4,4 **button** 95:22 **buy** 32:10 45:17 **C C**  3:1 90:4,5 91:2 97:14 **C1** 98:12 99:15 **C300** 11:16 **cabinet** 130:22 131:3 132:1 ,1 ,18 133:1 ,1 ,8 151:8 169:19,20,21 182:17 183:15 185:4,12 186:22 187:2 201:16 202:5 203:6 204:9 206:11 216:7 **cabinet's** 206:10 **cabinets** 44:17 ,21 46:3 ,14,16 47:1 ,1 47:6 48:16,21 49:2,7 ,14,21 50:1 50:5 ,7 52:18 65:4 131:8 ,21 136:16 143:6 144:20 147:1 149:7 151:4 151:7 ,7 155:22 157:13 ,22 159:14 168:22 169:13 171:16 172:8 175:3 ,4,13 176:8 179:2 185:19 187:17 189:1 197:21 199:14 204:11 ,22 210:15 213:11 ,22 217:7

221:10 **cafeteria** 125:13 ,15 125:18 ,18,21 **calculation** 172:15 **calendars** 123:21 125:5 **California** 4:14 10:21 11:1 65:3 **call** 14:15 ,16,17 33:22 36:15 75:17 80:15 90:16 160:11 178:9 199:12 204:7 207:10 210:17 225:13 233:17 ,19 233:21 **called** 17:17 50:8 130:13 154:1 **calling** 36:13 50:6 90:8 173:14 203:12 **camping** 14:2 **Canadian** 11:16 **cap** 54:7 **capability** 158:12 184:8 189:7 192:3 201:11 **capable** 132:3 ,21 165:8 167:18 182:11 188:16 191:7 193:19 194:21 ,22 195:1 196:6 198:10 201:4 210:3 211:19 **capacity** 166:7 222:1 **capture** 122:15 ,20 122:21 177:22 181:5 209:3 **captures** 15:10 **card** 16:22 73:15 **care** 17:1 21:20 217:21 **careful** 58:14 **carefully** 71:17 ,18 166:14 **carrier** 96:8 **case** 6:19 18:5 ,12 35:14 56:20 66:14 85:19 88:3 92:16 98:21 103:10 104:7 ,21 187:10 189:9 204:2 **cases** 108:20 **catch** 114:11

**categories** 10:5 43:9 44:17 45:1 ,1 46:21 47:19 49:20 133:21 135:7 ,8 140:9,20 153:6 156:5 172:1 206:22 **categorize** 46:12 **categorized** 177:16 **category** 19:4 49:4 130:4,16 136:13 141:3 ,12 142:18 148:1 ,15 153:6,18 153:21 ,22 154:3 ,4 154:6,13 188:12 189:12 217:4 **caucus** 40:11 **cause** 5:15 40:1 168:21 202:3 ,12 202:14 215:10 222:6,17 **causing** 166:20 198:1 **caveats** 95:15 **cellar** 7:10,16 152:3 152:6 **cellars** 46:15 **cellular** 132:13 **centers** 8:12 **cents** 207:8 **certain** 26:17 37:5 39:2 44:8 61:3 ,5 71:20 114:17 140:19 160:6,10 172:21 194:16 201:13 208:1 210:4 **certainly** 71:6 120:19 154:14 162:4 165:17 183:12 184:13 196:22 197:2 222:1 232:18 **certification** 141:22 203:7 **certifications** 141:20 **certified** 133:10 139:11 203:10 **certify** 203:9,13 **certifying** 203:3 **cetera** 20:22 24:16 79:21 105:8 226:1 226:1 **chains** 206:12ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 238 **chair** 22:7 **challenge** 48:11 112:14 113:3 115:7 **challenged** 134:16 134:19 **challenging** 115:16 **chance** 32:13 **change** 53:22 111:15 122:15 135:17 136:1 168:5 ,9 171:14 188:1 191:15 201:12,13 ,19 202:11 ,13 210:12 213:8 214:19,21 218:21 **changed** 80:8 **changes** 54:18 81:5 87:16 91:10 99:12 100:6 114:7 117:14 123:8 128:17 158:10 166:12 209:15 **changing** 137:7 167:6,15 184:11 205:5 208:6 **characteristics** 130:18 **characterized** 188:18 ,19 **Charles** 2:15 **Charlie** 10:3 43:1 49:13 51:9,13 57:22 58:1 64:11 65:10 73:11 79:22 86:11 89:2 92:9 92:11 100:7 105:14 108:1 130:10 134:9,14 135:14,15 136:6,9 136:11 137:1 ,11 138:1 ,22 139:1 141:13 ,14 142:4 155:19 189:4 196:19 197:16 205:14 207:15 210:16 221:11 ,12 221:13 227:12 231:3 ,18 232:4 **chart** 215:14,15 **chartered** 17:19 **chatter** 15:11 **check** 36:20 41:22 55:16 57:21 69:20 73:21 92:4 142:21 143:3 ,6 208:12

209:5 220:15 ,21 223:5 **checked** 91:19 **checking** 36:19 **cherry** 5:6 **chew** 229:20 **Chicago** 4:11 **children** 21:14 **chillers** 8:12 65:3 **chime** 42:22 **China** 7:12,17 **chocolates** 136:19 **choice** 33:10 **choose** 159:20 **chop** 230:21 **chose** 221:21 **Chris** 10:20 43:12 **circulate** 73:4 **circumstance** 88:4 89:12 **circumstances** 85:4 85:6,20 89:9 97:3 **clarification** 27:17 28:7 51:1 52:3 53:11 64:13 76:15 91:1 93:11 114:13 138:18 167:17 171:17 196:13 207:11 209:10 212:4 223:4 **clarifications** 141:10 **clarify** 43:2 59:4 67:3 75:20 77:11 78:1 89:10 98:1 178:21 205:17 207:2 **clarity** 77:6 90:7 194:11 **Clary** 28:10 **class** 85:22 149:9,15 152:15 153:7 ,8,13 154:18 168:8 169:10,11 174:1 ,2 176:18 180:12 220:6 224:8 **classes** 146:6,13 ,19 148:17 149:2,6,16 149:17 ,19 150:2 150:14,22 151:3 ,3 151:5 ,13 ,17 ,19,21 152:2,11 ,13 ,18,20 156:1 ,11 ,15 218:2 **classified** 142:2 163:8 **classify** 142:1

**Clean** 8:4 **cleaner** 217:22 224:12 225:2 226:19 229:3 **clear** 8:7 10:14,18 11:3 20:20 35:20 37:8,11 51:4 58:16 60:12 61:3 65:18 76:19 77:17 94:4 106:14 112:2 113:19 115:5 119:5 127:6,10 135:7 151:15 152:5 ,18 155:14 182:22 192:3 193:16 196:18 213:11 **clearer** 20:15 61:6 131:16 201:18 **clearly** 205:19 228:11 **Cleary** 2:12 10:11 10:11 28:10,19,19 38:19,22,22 44:5 44:6 49:17 ,17 72:5 ,9 74:17 ,17 75:10 76:10,10 78:5 ,5 83:7 ,7 ,19 86:6 87:20,20 92:1 95:16,16 96:1 ,17 ,17 ,22,22 102:21 108:12 109:2 110:12 114:4,4 118:6,22 119:15 120:1 ,1 ,15 120:19 121:9 123:22 124:6 136:22,22 138:9,9 144:10,10 155:3 ,3 156:6,6 157:6,6 162:12,12 163:15 164:1 167:9,9 173:20,20 174:9,9 183:17 192:17 ,17 193:7 ,7 194:2,2 195:2,2 202:9,9 208:7 ,13 213:6,6 215:3 218:17 219:18 225:16,16 226:2,10 227:4,22 234:9 **Cleary's** 45:22 **climate** 195:6 **close** 72:19,22 110:21 **closed** 162:6

**closer** 104:8 176:3 198:8 202:8 **co-facilitating** 4:10 **coach** 22:8 **code** 134:16 136:4 **Codes** 10:21 **coffee** 17:9 **Cohen** 62:8,8 64:18 64:18 155:13 **cold** 206:5 **colleague** 4:11 **colleagues** 156:9 **column** 176:22 **come** 4:5 18:11 ,12 18:22 22:10 25:6 25:18 31:6 36:3 55:3 ,11 56:2,2 70:21 81:2 97:18 101:5 104:10,12 104:20 106:1 111:2 115:13 121:22 124:21 126:5 135:7 147:8 155:15 178:4 198:5 221:2 225:14 228:22 **comes** 27:8 29:14 102:11 163:4 172:13 186:9 201:19 **comfort** 69:20 72:15 **comfortable** 31:12 33:7 42:14 57:17 57:19 82:17 142:22 143:5 **coming** 4:1 7:3 8:3 8:13 12:4 22:11 79:21 92:13 **comment** 20:12 63:16 64:1 76:11 90:15 113:10 124:13 138:21 139:13 140:2 147:11 156:8 **commented** 138:17 139:20 140:4 151:4,20 155:21 **commenter** 140:15 **commenting** 106:21 **comments** 10:16 20:13 ,19 53:4 82:12 83:17 84:20 90:14 98:5 112:11 112:11 113:2 114:5 115:2 116:11 127:15 ,16

133:14,15 ,20 134:5 ,22 138:13 140:21 146:18 148:16 150:22 151:1 ,11 154:6 155:2,19 158:8 175:5 208:14 **commercial** 11:8 138:4 139:4 141:6 141:18 148:9 **commercial-size** 9:14,15 **Commission** 141:17 **commit** 121:11 **committed** 88:15 **committee** 10:6,8,9 11:18 17:17 ,18 26:12 28:3 ,15 54:7 66:16 71:18 74:7 77:21 80:2 80:12 101:1 ,9 105:17 107:6,13 159:10 217:18 218:15 219:11 226:7 227:5 228:19 229:1 231:4 **committees** 26:15 67:7 **common** 33:4 130:10 194:4 **communicate** 122:17 **compact** 150:18 ,19 151:8 156:13 ,19 **companies** 12:11 47:16,17 ,17 48:7 48:8 51:4 61:21 62:5 207:20 **company** 9:13 12:6 12:8 45:16,17 47:10 50:19 89:4 139:7 **compared** 173:4 185:17 **compartment** 132:3 132:21 139:21 141:8 152:3 ,4,7 158:13 160:9 161:12,14 164:15 165:8 167:18 170:8 ,10 172:20 173:2 185:15 188:17 191:8 196:7 ,15 198:10ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 239 **compartments** 132:13 ,14 160:7 165:11 **compelled** 140:3 **compete** 61:20 **competition** 29:20 **compile** 29:16 **complete** 30:4 74:6 **completed** 229:9 **completely** 17:19 34:10,18 143:19 143:20 144:4 159:14 168:12 **compliance** 8:20,21 **complicated** 34:16 157:8 **comply** 202:16 **complying** 202:15 **componentry** 189:8 **compression** 46:4 47:6 48:16 49:14 49:20 50:1 ,4,10 65:5 149:10 154:19 175:2 199:20 222:8 ,16 **compressor** 47:2 48:20 49:3 ,5 ,8 132:19 133:3 137:22 189:12 199:18 211:8 216:6 **compressor-based** 10:13 130:20 137:20 216:22 218:4,9 219:9 226:18 228:11 ,12 **compressorized** 46:14 **compressors** 189:8 **comprises** 132:12 **conceivably** 188:2 191:6 **concept** 50:6 86:8 94:22 158:14 **concepts** 94:20 **concern** 42:17 61:14 70:18 74:18 75:13 ,16 85:10 105:20 120:21 127:11 158:10 159:4 166:18 167:5 172:19 173:6 176:7 197:3 202:11 209:4 227:2 **concerned** 38:20 66:12 75:2 92:12 137:6 175:1 **concerns** 37:14 106:2 151:14,16 208:20 219:15 **Conciliation** 2:4,5 4:10 19:10 **concluded** 175:14 **concluding** 27:11 **conclusion** 198:6 **concrete** 194:18 **condensed** 117:9 **condenser** 132:20 133:3 216:6 **condition** 181:19 186:2 187:7 ,8 189:16 191:9 **conditioned** 162:20 **conditions** 171:10 179:5 ,11 ,19 181:13 ,17 ,21 183:2,3 197:12,15 199:2,6 201:9 210:13 211:20 **conduct** 69:22 75:16 77:3 79:18 **conducting** 77:13 **conference** 231:13 **conferred** 224:6 **confirm** 52:7 **conflict** 13:15 19:12 21:15 **confuse** 196:18 **confused** 58:19 192:18 195:12 209:9 **confusing** 35:21 60:16 87:22 194:6 207:12 **confusion** 168:17 198:2 **connected** 167:21 **connection** 150:6 213:9 **consensus** 17:14 18:17 26:9,10,12 26:16 29:8 31:10 31:11 32:4,15 ,17 32:21 33:1 ,4,7 ,13 33:17 34:6,7 ,22 35:3 ,5 ,10 36:19 37:7 ,9,20,20,22 38:3 ,11 ,17 40:3 41:7 ,11 ,12 42:3 44:1 53:15 ,22 54:13 ,15 55:14,17 55:18 57:15 58:12

59:17 ,19 60:10,14 60:17 65:16 66:1 66:7 67:7 68:17 69:5 ,6,10 73:21 83:12 92:5 102:11 **conservation** 29:21 83:13 ,22 **consider** 63:1 71:15 166:12 172:2,11 174:16 221:18 227:18 **consideration** 92:6 184:10,18 **considerations** 184:5 **considered** 145:2 149:6,14,15 ,21 152:11 153:12 202:4 210:14 220:3 **considering** 144:19 202:17 **consistent** 10:19 138:3 168:10 171:21 **constituents** 24:6,10 **constrained** 216:14 **constructive** 4:2 **consultants** 12:20 **Consulting** 12:22 13:4 **consults** 57:7 **consumed** 176:10 **consumer** 130:4 131:10,18 133:5 139:15 ,22 140:7 141:6,16,17 142:14 152:14 156:20 162:16,18 163:3 166:21 ,22 183:19,20 189:19 196:10 199:13 200:8 205:20 210:6,7 **consumer's** 162:22 174:18 **consumers** 29:17 142:13 147:21 166:11 174:20,20 195:17 ,18 196:2,3 196:5 ,8 **consumption** 152:16 175:15 ,21 **contact** 73:7 121:1 **contemplated** 28:1 119:18

**context** 87:22 137:9 **continual** 166:4 **continue** 28:16 30:3 204:15 225:11 **continuing** 37:1 230:1 **contribute** 76:1 88:19 120:14 **control** 79:9 **controlled** 49:5 66:13 **convened** 26:2 **convenience** 130:12 130:13 **convenient** 130:11 **conventional** 154:18 175:7 **conversation** 82:7 135:18 143:7 178:5 198:1 **conversations** 197:20 **converse** 143:8 **convince** 193:13 **cooking** 12:10 **cool** 130:21 143:5 **cooled** 44:17 ,21 46:2,14,16,22 47:1 ,6 48:16,20 49:2,7 ,14,20 50:1 50:4,6,7 65:4 130:22 131:8 ,21 132:1 133:1 ,1 ,8 144:19 147:1 149:7 ,22 150:10 151:4,7 ,7 155:21 157:13 ,22 168:22 169:13 171:16 172:8 175:3 ,4,13 176:8 179:2 182:17 185:12,19 186:22 187:2,16 189:1 197:21 199:14 201:16 202:5 203:6 204:9 204:10,21 210:14 213:11 ,22 217:7 221:10 **cooler** 206:5 ,10,11 **coolers** 50:8 **cooling** 130:12 144:14 **coordinated** 229:17 **copies** 30:19 **copy** 82:11 198:9 **copying** 137:21

**Corp** 2:22 **Corporation** 8:11 8:16 **correct** 47:7 64:15 69:12 77:1 106:21 117:12 118:4 125:9 135:20,21 169:14 176:15 ,19 190:15 203:11 209:13 212:21 217:1 **cost** 29:18 189:10 189:11 **cost-effective** 11:1 ,3 11:10 **counsel** 3:15 30:7 ,9 62:9 64:19 155:5 203:18 219:4 **counsel's** 142:6 220:9,17 223:18 **count** 74:8 **counted** 26:6 76:4 **counter** 9:16 203:17 **counterproductive** 159:5 **country** 57:8 159:22 **couple** 9:16 14:14 41:2 51:1 62:10 62:13 108:7 134:11 135:9 179:16 230:7 **course** 24:8 25:15 46:3 105:1 129:12 129:17 ,22 205:3 **court** 15:9 **cover** 70:13 207:6 219:20 **coverage** 63:6 126:10 138:20 140:18 145:5 146:10 178:21 179:3 ,6 181:10 185:10 186:3 ,7 187:6 190:7 ,12 191:4 192:5 ,6 193:19 201:2,7 209:20 217:2,5 ,15 217:16,17 ,21 ,21 219:1 ,13 ,14,22 224:9 225:1 ,20,20 226:3 228:10,17 **coverages** 55:4 **covered** 62:15 ,15 63:2,12 139:14 142:8 153:10ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 240 160:18 ,19 161:5 170:9,10 179:7 186:5 197:17 202:6,14 207:6 209:16 213:20 216:12,13 ,18 217:4,13 ,22 224:21 ,22 **covering** 162:8 197:6 219:22 **covers** 140:12 **crazy** 116:2 **create** 153:22 224:7 228:19 **creating** 174:5 **critical** 5:8 6:1 145:11 **cropping** 106:12 **cross** 188:11 **cube** 148:11 **curious** 14:3 203:22 **current** 168:10 209:22 214:2 215:22 216:4,21 217:17 218:3 228:10 **currently** 74:7 110:1 153:10 169:5 171:18 188:18 ,18 202:14 202:15 213:20 216:12 **cut** 39:14 **cute** 192:19 **cutoff** 140:1 171:22 **cutting** 103:17 **cycles** 148:13 **D D**  3:1 90:4,5 91:2 99:18 100:6,12,14 101:15 ,19 **D.C** 75:13 **Dan** 6:13 ,15 7:5 ,15 30:13 ,13 32:7 46:13 62:8 64:18 155:13 **Dane** 2:14 9:3 ,3 49:1 ,1 51:10,17 51:17 55:19 75:11 105:19 106:9 112:22 113:7 ,18 114:1 116:8 146:21 206:19 **data** 22:11 ,13 64:7 122:8 162:1 166:20 176:8

**date** 71:12,20 91:19 152:21 227:14 **date's** 91:21 **dates** 5:18 24:18 71:8 123:13 ,15 124:20 125:3 225:12,13 230:3 ,7 233:5 234:6 **David** 2:5 13:10,11 **day** 54:17 72:9 92:3 92:5 120:22 121:3 124:17 ,18 157:16 200:11 225:13 230:19,20 **days** 4:18 119:13 120:12,12 125:8 135:9 230:5 231:20 **DC** 1:9 **dead** 58:9 **deadline** 5:19 89:11 99:19 233:2 **deal** 9:13 ,14 19:13 21:15 56:2 70:8 79:16 106:11 122:2 145:22 **dealing** 19:12 125:2 214:10 **decide** 26:18 34:15 78:16 107:15 118:19 **decided** 142:8 **decides** 26:13 **decision** 33:9,11 ,12 34:11 66:18 **decision-making** 25:7 26:9 **decisions** 65:17 122:16,18 **decline** 66:22 **decrease** 184:16 **dedicated** 152:6 **default** 67:14,15 100:16 **defer** 40:16 134:3 146:7 **define** 26:10 41:7 62:17 135:6 152:17 190:6 192:20 214:8 219:1 ,19 **defined** 9:8,8 58:13 69:10 147:9 151:20 222:21 **defines** 21:12 196:16

**defining** 32:3 134:18 158:12 177:5 200:2 201:2 201:7 205:19 **definitely** 11:2 172:11 177:19 193:5 205:1 ,1 **definition** 26:14 49:4 55:4 60:13 131:13 ,15 ,17 132:14 137:17 138:17 142:17 143:5 144:21 145:2,7 ,7 147:4 153:15 154:15 155:7 165:7 167:15 168:5 171:12 173:10,11 173:12,15 177:1 177:12,12 179:1 182:7 185:2,11 186:6 187:16,20 190:3 191:16 200:22 201:11 ,19 202:1 ,12 203:5 ,10 203:14 205:5 ,7 208:3 209:4,11 ,15 209:22 210:22 214:20,21 215:20 215:22 216:10,17 218:3 ,22 219:2 220:1 224:9 225:4 226:11 ,22 **definitional** 158:10 **definitions** 6:1 8:6 9:7 25:19 126:11 128:21 ,22 129:2 129:10,22 135:7 135:12 140:11 ,16 141:3 ,4 146:10 150:2 151:2 165:9 171:16,18 173:17 174:5 187:5 ,5 207:3 218:2 220:10,11 224:17 227:2 228:18 229:3 **defrost** 150:16,17 150:19,20 **degree** 141:7 161:2 **degrees** 132:4,5 ,6 134:15 136:18 ,21 137:2 150:10,12 158:13 160:9,15 160:16 161:1 ,16 162:2,5 ,10,22

163:5 165:2,9,16 166:2,6 169:6,10 169:11 170:8 ,11 172:20 174:16 175:5 ,7 ,15 ,17 176:10 179:19 180:12,17 ,22 182:2 183:9,12,13 184:2,22 185:2 187:1 ,1 190:5 ,17 190:19,21 193:18 197:1 ,2,8,13 ,15 198:12,12 199:3 ,6 199:7 ,8 200:18 ,18 214:1 222:22 **delay** 79:7 **delete** 95:22 **delta** 188:6 193:12 193:15 **denied** 211:17 **Department** 1:1 ,6 2:1 3:4 8:8 13:14 28:17 108:4 179:9 **dependent** 226:7 **depending** 15:17 41:18 71:8 120:7 122:3 181:15 223:7 ,22 **depends** 39:16 187:4 **deployed** 193:21 **dern** 117:22 **described** 182:12 **describing** 207:21 **descriptions** 118:16 **design** 61:18 191:7 192:14 194:18 ,22 201:8 210:6,6,7 **designate** 87:14 229:12 **designated** 70:19 72:3 ,16 73:1 84:22 86:3 **designed** 71:17 ,18 133:9 139:16 194:8 ,14,16,20 210:2,2,3 **designing** 192:2 **designs** 191:16 **desirability** 62:12 **desirable** 64:9 **desire** 194:17 **detail** 121:18 **detailed** 108:12 118:14,15 ,21 119:20 121:9

158:3 **details** 44:2 61:18 156:22 **determination** 62:20 66:20 217:15 226:3 228:17 **determinations** 168:9 **determine** 63:8 99:10,10 100:21 101:2 107:17 128:4 162:15 180:11 190:3 ,12 191:5 193:19 **determined** 94:14 132:6 192:5 ,6,7 216:16 **determines** 100:14 **determining** 141:8 170:9 172:20 187:8 **develop** 12:12 18:5 55:8 209:2 **developed** 175:8 **development** 83:12 **device** 130:21 **devices** 130:11 ,12 130:13 163:12,13 **diagram** 130:2 142:21 143:10,10 143:12 176:21 **dialogue** 33:19 37:5 55:15 77:7 **Dick** 12:5 27:16 50:3 53:8 79:5 80:16 83:1 93:9 93:10 100:22 109:10 110:6,14 111:21 144:9 145:12,14 158:4,5 165:19,20 191:14 211:2 212:2,3 215:7 ,8 233:16,19 **dictate** 43:5 **difference** 141:22 188:3 221:17 **different** 19:14 26:13 29:13 ,16 33:2 34:5 38:4 40:22 43:9 57:7 58:22 62:18 63:3 63:20 67:9 75:1 85:7 ,20 95:15 96:4 107:5 115:14ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 241 139:16,19 140:7 ,8 141:19,21 143:16 143:20,20 144:1 ,4 144:13 ,15 ,21 147:17 ,19 149:10 150:1 156:4 159:14 164:12 167:10,13 ,20 168:5 170:2,4,14 170:16 172:1 174:1 ,2 175:3 176:17 178:1 179:3 ,14,22 181:10,14,17 ,21 182:2,4 188:10 197:20 201:11 211:9 216:16 218:21 223:8 **differentiate** 137:5 139:21 141:5 ,11 152:18 **differentiation** 182:18 **differently** 23:5 183:7 188:8 **difficult** 4:7 **difficulty** 195:3 **dinner** 206:1 **direction** 39:20 125:17 **directly** 105:16 185:22 **director** 11:12 **disagree** 39:4 216:10 **disclosure** 61:13 **discovered** 17:8 **discuss** 37:1 39:18 83:11 84:11 145:10 147:7 172:10 177:19 218:13 232:15 ,16 **discussed** 10:5 89:21 141:16 207:17 **discussing** 26:4 41:1 56:19 79:11 118:17 137:9 177:18 228:21 **discussion** 4:2 5:22 6:2 31:5 32:17 38:7 ,15 42:9,11 42:16 43:21 53:14 57:15 ,18 60:1 64:8 68:14 69:19 74:3 77:6 81:14 85:12 90:5 112:5

126:10 128:20 129:21 142:7 145:18 154:21 158:4 163:17 172:14 178:14,19 204:1 ,3 ,15 215:10 221:9 225:11 229:1 230:1 **discussions** 85:2 104:11 **disparity** 39:11 **dispensing** 133:12 133:13 **dispute** 19:15 ,18 **disputes** 19:11 **dissent** 38:2,4,11 ,16 **dissenters** 42:3 **dissenting** 58:21 66:13 ,17 **distinction** 10:15 47:8 65:4 179:17 182:15 **distinctly** 143:16 **distinguish** 47:22 **distinguishing** 65:8 **distributes** 8:11 **dive** 138:14 **divide** 152:2 **dividing** 135:10,11 **division** 156:12 **divisions** 135:13 143:1 176:22 **docket** 37:11 **doctrine** 79:18 **document** 31:13 45:2 68:22 77:12 77:16,20 81:1 ,3 84:18 95:18 97:18 97:19 111:11 120:20 121:4 **documented** 180:1 **DOE** 2:7 ,8,9 11:2 12:3 ,17 14:8 16:11 17:16,19 18:8,14,19 20:2 27:21 ,22 28:7 ,14 50:7 53:1 54:9,21 55:8 62:9 64:13 64:14 99:21 100:16,20,21 101:6,14 103:5 105:4 107:16,16 109:13 113:8 115:9,10,13 124:6 129:7 137:18 138:3 142:3 ,10

143:21 144:1 149:6,14,15 ,18,21 150:1 ,14,21 151:11 ,20 152:10 152:17 153:11 155:5 158:11 160:19,20 161:6 161:10 165:4 168:18 170:18 172:11 ,12 176:7 177:4 178:17 186:3 ,10 187:22 191:1 ,15 192:20 192:21 194:9,12 195:13 ,15 198:16 201:5 ,22 203:3 205:3 209:19 211:22 216:12 219:3 ,19 223:19 224:5 227:17 ,18 228:17 **DOE's** 13:16 140:5 151:2,16 152:21 154:5 172:21 175:14 178:20 188:19 189:14 194:7 197:10,14 199:5 200:17 ,21 **doing** 32:12 122:8 160:2 162:14 163:8 195:20 209:22 213:8 215:21 **Donuts** 17:8 125:13 **door** 15:21 152:5 162:19 163:13 174:17 175:10 176:5 180:19,21 180:22 181:1 ,4 182:3 183:22 197:13 199:3 ,4,7 199:17 200:5 ,19 210:9 **doors** 162:5 163:4 183:14 **double** 195:8 **doubts** 33:18 196:6 **downstairs** 17:9 125:12 **downstream** 152:21 **draft** 20:10,11 25:19 26:14 77:21 **draw** 182:15 ,22 218:4 **drink** 206:5 **drives** 200:4

**dropping** 80:12 **due** 28:2 **dummy** 23:4 **Dunkin** 17:8 125:12 **duty** 19:22 **E E**  3:1 ,1 99:18 ,19 100:7 ,12 101:16 101:19 **earlier** 55:1 64:3 136:7 233:14 **early** 125:7 ,7 230:16 232:19 233:15 **Earth** 7:21 40:18 70:16 89:6 94:2 105:2 114:12 117:15 147:14 172:4 **Earthjustice** 2:10 **easier** 44:15 230:14 **easiest** 125:15 126:3 **easily** 134:19 **easy** 157:22 **eat** 97:22 126:1 **economic** 13:8 29:17 **Edison** 2:19 10:21 13:18 **edit** 16:16 92:10 **editing** 69:3 110:6 111:15 126:21 209:10 **editorial** 108:21 **educated** 121:21 **Edwards** 2:9 **effect** 175:17 **effective** 22:22 189:10 **effectively** 140:18 206:3 **effects** 152:15 **efficiency** 8:1 9:21 11:1 ,7 ,10 43:6 207:7 **efficient** 20:15 ,20 189:6,11 **eight** 123:12 **Eileen** 4:4 17:13 44:12 77:13 79:1 81:7 82:5 118:4 170:17 **Eileen's** 45:6 **either** 34:8 70:2 77:10 130:19 132:4 145:6 167:13 189:10 **either/or** 29:3 **elaborate** 90:8 **electric** 2:19 13:19 41:3 46:4,15 47:6 47:15 48:6 52:19 53:20 61:15 62:6 62:18 ,19,20 63:1 63:5 ,11 ,13 ,17 65:5 130:21 132:2 132:20 140:12 142:7 151:6 173:1 175:2 185:18 186:22 190:22 218:10 **electricity** 216:4 **electrics** 46:9 52:10 55:5 142:8 149:9 222:13 ,19 **elephant** 47:14 97:22 **elevated** 173:4 **Eleven** 75:10 **eliminate** 94:6 95:1 95:5 ,10 158:2 **else's** 92:6 **email** 72:12,13 73:22 92:22 93:5 94:9 95:13 96:7 96:21 **emails** 79:20 **emergency** 92:17 **Emily** 75:21 **employee** 3:15 **employment** 12:7 **encompass** 182:9 183:5 **encounter** 166:8 **energy** 1:1 ,6 2:1 3:4 7:22 8:2 9:19,21 11:1 ,4,7 ,13 ,18,19 13:14 20:20 21:20 29:19,20 43:6 83:12,22 108:4 132:2,20 142:13 152:16 156:19 160:12 161:21 165:16 169:18 170:1 175:9,15 176:11 180:13 189:10 190:11 199:1 207:7 211:5 211:7 **enforceability**ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 242 201:18 **enforced** 8:8 **enforcement** 8:4 191:21 195:6 **enforcing** 200:22 209:20 **engineering** 13:1 134:20 189:6 **enjoy** 3:22 127:1 **ensure** 10:17 97:1 118:17 166:6,10 **ensuring** 8:4,8 **entering** 23:15 **entire** 118:10 129:3 **environment** 196:11 200:9 **EPCA** 29:9 155:7 216:15 219:1 **equation** 172:16 **equipment** 11:8 12:11 50:17 62:16 62:21 63:6 138:20 141:6 202:3 **err** 16:19 **especially** 13:20 75:2 121:9 140:13 141:21 195:5 218:18 221:21 **essentially** 147:18 176:12 **establish** 8:6 152:13 **established** 17:16 19:10 77:18 137:2 186:12 **establishing** 187:6 229:2 **et** 20:22 24:16 79:21 105:8 226:1 ,1 **ethics** 3:11 ,12 30:10 30:14 31:6 32:8 **Europe** 232:5 **evaluating** 166:5 **evaluation** 27:12 **evening** 230:18 **event** 18:17 85:5 **eventual** 14:3 **eventually** 16:8 **everybody** 3:3 ,12 6:17 10:20 15:15 16:12,17 23:8 42:10 43:11 57:18 60:13 ,16 67:7 71:13 73:4 82:16 85:17 ,17 96:12 97:16 119:8 ,11 121:21 123:21 133:5 135:3 ,4

**everybody's** 31:12 78:2 106:21 115:21 **everyone's** 33:9 36:22 72:15 78:11 164:20 **exact** 128:1 137:19 154:16 **exactly** 15:1 46:5 ,6 77:4 118:16 148:7 184:2 200:14 202:10 209:10 **example** 41:4 55:13 83:10 174:15 230:13 **excellent** 126:16 142:5 215:9 **exception** 161:3 **excluded** 224:9 **excluding** 133:10 139:11 216:5 **exclusive** 179:10 **Excuse** 44:12 221:13 **exemption** 139:5 **exhausting** 68:18 **exist** 163:2 164:19 212:6,10 221:20 **existed** 131:13 **existing** 131:14 145:7 149:16 151:18 153:8 ,11 153:18 154:3 199:19 219:9 222:8 ,10,16 227:15 229:11 **exists** 156:14 **expand** 156:21 217:1 ,20 **expanded** 19:13 **expect** 124:8 126:13 181:5 183:13 **expectation** 194:7 **expectations** 25:13 **expected** 83:21 **expecting** 174:21 **expensive** 75:14 **expert** 81:11 **expertise** 48:13 57:3 71:14,16 88:20 90:19 **experts** 22:11 71:19 98:21 **explain** 4:12 23:5 36:16 60:5 ,5 126:3 156:9

158:17 224:13 225:17 **explaining** 125:11 **explicated** 224:9 **explicitly** 101:3 **explore** 88:20 **expressed** 151:2 **expressly** 86:7 **extends** 132:5 **extension** 3:20 19:2 **extent** 7:12 63:16 64:3 193:6 219:8 226:20 228:13 ,20 **extenuating** 85:4,6 85:19 88:3 89:9 89:12 97:3 **extra** 197:5 **extrapolate** 161:13 **extrapolating** 162:1 **extrapolation** 161:11 170:12 **eyes** 114:10 147:21 **F F**  2:21 222:2 **face-to-face** 70:2 **Facilator** 2:3 **facilitate** 22:17 78:22 204:3 **facilitated** 19:20 **facilitator** 21:13 ,17 31:21 117:9 **facilitators** 4:5 21:13 94:15 **fact** 63:12 166:2 174:16 196:12 **factitious** 109:12 **factor** 163:22 172:15 175:17 ,20 176:5 **factors** 29:12,21 163:16,20,21 200:4 **Fahrenheit** 136:18 136:21 141:7 150:10 **fair** 8:13 9:5 ,19,22 20:20 23:13 43:10 81:9 85:18 111:4 135:13 191:20 **fairly** 8:16 24:18 25:1 54:14 175:8 **faith** 27:1 115:21 116:1 **fall** 130:3 ,16 142:11 144:20 153:14 154:12 173:5 177:12 228:4 **falling** 153:17 189:11 **falls** 154:17 **familiar** 20:8 133:4 180:10 **far** 15:7 36:19 38:14 55:17 138:6 143:9 146:2 157:2 184:14 197:8 198:9 207:14 208:2 230:3 **farther** 104:8 **fast** 16:15 82:21 **feature** 152:14 160:3 **features** 181:6 **federal** 2:3 ,5 4:9 14:13 16:7 17:16 17:18 19:9 88:14 129:13 136:4 **feedback** 129:21 134:7 152:9 220:16 223:18 **feel** 22:3 25:15 40:2 46:5 57:17 78:6,8 131:4 138:12 140:1 ,2 142:22 157:7 163:12 171:2 172:10 183:22 193:3 **feeling** 203:11 **feels** 26:3 **feet** 123:17 **felt** 28:18 **field** 8:5 71:19 166:8 174:6 175:9 175:15 ,22 176:2 176:14 181:20 182:13 ,14 186:14 186:15 193:20,21 196:17 197:15 199:5 ,9 201:8 **fierce** 5:14 **figure** 164:5 170:19 176:21 **final** 18:14 29:16 30:2,4 37:9 55:16 83:21 91:5 ,15 104:1 ,3 ,4,9,15 ,22 105:16,21 106:1 ,5 106:13 ,19 108:3 111:1 113:9 115:3 115:11 ,13 126:18 128:12 226:1 ,8

229:21 **finalize** 77:21 **find** 27:6,9 29:7 36:15 43:3 48:8 57:8 66:15 75:15 111:14 226:15 **finding** 157:14 **finds** 203:4 **fine** 36:1 42:16 71:19 116:8 118:22 120:2 126:6 196:15 226:21 **finger** 34:14,15 ,15 **fingers** 34:8 ,9,13 **finishing** 230:19 **first** 3:7 7:8 12:11 19:22 24:13 33:10 34:17 43:2 70:13 84:1 ,13 ,15 ,20 87:3 89:18 ,20,21 91:10 101:22 102:22 106:16 108:9 109:5 ,9,16 111:9,15 129:9 133:14 138:16,22 142:17 145:16 165:16 223:6,9,19 229:2 230:2,14 232:1 **fit** 65:4 155:9 **fits** 191:6 **five** 34:6,9 116:19 116:22,22 124:2,3 146:11 233:5 **flexibility** 70:20 78:22 **flight** 19:22 **flip** 110:19,20 **flips** 111:3 **floor** 125:16,19 **flow** 27:3 146:3 224:20 228:18 **fluctuate** 76:20 **fly** 71:1 230:16,20 **FMCS** 13:11 **focus** 8:3 17:20 145:18 163:18 **folks** 13:9 14:10 32:22 36:2 37:4 38:1 53:2 57:6,7 61:2 64:6 67:9 74:1 77:10 85:8 90:12,13 178:8 207:12 230:15 ,16ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 243 230:16,20 **follow** 27:11 125:18 163:11 192:9 196:9 202:22 **following** 221:6 **food** 130:15 ,15 134:16 136:3 ,20 138:19 163:5 174:15 ,17 175:10 177:14,16,16 180:19,22 181:3 181:13 182:3 ,10 183:1 ,14 206:2,9 207:6 210:3 ,9 **foods** 136:8 ,13 ,14 **force** 60:8 61:8 79:2 **forefront** 9:21 **forget** 167:22 **forgive** 16:19 **forgot** 35:12 53:9 **form** 18:3 ,4 99:4 102:16,17 154:9 201:18 **formal** 27:21 **formalize** 42:1 **formally** 37:2 89:18 205:6 **forms** 96:11 **Forrestal** 1:7 **Forth** 9:5 **forum** 18:15 **forward** 16:2 58:6 65:1 67:10 78:16 118:19 178:7 218:7 223:22 227:10 **found** 188:22 221:7 **four** 3:18,19 19:1 ,2 31:14 34:11 38:16 39:21 40:10 41:9 43:8 44:10,17 45:1 ,1 53:19 97:8 97:10 99:22 100:1 101:22 111:16 112:16,19,19,21 116:11 ,12,15 124:2,3 146:11 149:20 150:14 157:22 230:5 231:19 233:5 ,5 **Fourteen** 74:10 **fourth** 41:11 231:22 **free** 113:13 140:1 **freestanding** 151:9 156:3 ,13 ,18 **freezer** 131:11 ,12 131:15 ,15 ,20,20 132:9,9,15 ,15 133:6,7 137:8 143:19 151:18 ,19 160:21 161:2 164:11 ,18 167:16 167:16 171:13 ,13 177:13 178:22,22 182:8 ,8,16,16 186:11 ,11 201:1 ,1 201:15 202:5 209:12,12,21 212:5 ,6,8,9 214:18 ,18 217:3 ,4 220:2,2 223:10,10 **freezers** 9:15 130:6 140:17 143:19 144:22,22 147:18 147:19 149:18 ,18 150:17 151:10 168:2,2 171:19,20 177:6,7 179:21 ,22 186:1 ,1 188:20,20 210:18 ,18 213:3 ,3 214:9,9 216:3 ,3 217:1 219:8 ,8 225:5 ,5 226:17 ,17 **fresh** 73:17 134:17 **Friday** 72:20 73:1 91:19 92:4 100:9 **front** 61:13 79:12 82:11 91:9 177:8 182:11 210:1 **frowns** 220:9 **fruit** 157:3 **FTC** 142:12 174:3 **fuel** 179:19 **full** 37:6 61:13 92:17 117:11 164:11 **full-size** 156:14 **fully** 73:8 76:6 **function** 143:18 ,20 154:9,16 **functions** 14:16 17:2,4 130:10 144:14 **further** 57:14 89:16 138:18 147:7 151:12 165:9 218:13 **future** 51:16 222:11 227:14 **FYI** 65:2 **G G**  3:1

**garbage** 116:3 **gauge** 34:7 **GE** 2:11 11:12,13 45:9 49:22 52:9 67:5 71:4 90:6 95:4 96:3 ,13 107:2 137:15 143:13 153:4,16 159:7 161:18 164:9 165:12 169:2 170:4 180:6 183:8 189:20 196:21 200:16 222:4 **geez** 78:8 **general** 3:15 30:7 ,9 62:9 64:18 96:7 105:17 142:6 152:9 167:2 219:3 220:9,17 **generally** 132:10 146:4 181:12 219:7 224:11 **generate** 37:5 151:15 **generated** 18:20 151:13 **generating** 22:9 **George** 50:11 68:10 69:17 80:1 **getting** 5:18 7:18 16:19 42:14 43:18 44:1 47:15 54:17 62:11 64:21 79:20 92:21 110:21 118:7 157:7 162:16 173:13 202:8 **give** 3:11 14:19,20 17:11 19:2 31:3 69:7 73:15 ,18 103:15 108:7 126:9 161:14 165:10 178:3 190:11 210:20 223:18 **given** 18:18 81:1 190:19 191:8 233:4 **gives** 176:13 **giving** 64:20 161:3 206:4 215:16 **glance** 223:19 **global** 8:22 11:20 159:11 **globally** 20:21

**go** 3:7 4:19 6:6,11 7:8 13:9 14:14 15:18 ,22 16:2,10 17:6,13 25:4 27:3 28:12 29:10 30:13 30:17 31:9,14 32:21 33:3 ,21 35:10 44:13 45:5 46:2,10 56:21 58:6,11 67:17 70:13 73:9 75:18 76:9 78:13 87:10 89:17 99:2 100:4 100:17 102:21 104:15 ,22 105:12 105:15 ,17 ,17 112:10 114:9,15 119:4 125:16,19 126:10,17 134:11 143:4 144:6 145:16,17 ,21 ,21 146:7 ,19 148:17 150:13 158:7 159:12 176:20 177:9 187:21 197:9 204:6,8 205:4,22 211:5 213:4 215:18 217:19 221:10 222:13 227:3 230:3 ,18 234:11 **goal** 82:12,13 194:4 **goals** 179:14 195:14 **goes** 20:12 22:6 112:2 115:10 143:10 166:13 168:19 227:10 231:21 **going** 3:14 4:14,15 4:17 ,19 5:9,11 ,16 14:4 15:2 16:16 16:16,19 17:11 ,13 18:2 20:22 22:10 22:16,20 25:11 26:22 30:13 ,18,21 31:2 32:8,12,18 32:20 33:16,19,20 34:20 35:3 ,4,4,5 ,6 35:9,14 36:15 37:8,10,12 38:13 39:20 42:12 43:20 46:15 54:13 55:11 56:16 57:20 58:15 60:6 61:6 65:15 66:6 71:21 72:17 79:11 80:2 82:4,4

82:5 87:14,15 94:8,16 100:1 ,17 100:20 103:17 ,19 105:21 106:5 107:12 108:6 110:19 117:6,10 118:19 119:10 126:7 ,9 128:6,21 129:18 ,19,20 134:3 ,6 137:7 146:5 ,6,9,9,15 ,15 148:7 ,8 154:10 155:12 158:6 161:5 ,21 164:20 169:4 171:22 172:19 174:19 178:13 181:13 ,14 182:21 191:18 192:22 193:1 ,2,3 196:6 201:7 208:3 209:18 210:10 214:4 218:7 ,17 219:22 223:2,4 224:21 225:2 226:6,8 230:4 234:4 **gold** 73:18 **good** 4:2,3 ,20 6:12 9:6,11 12:5 21:22 23:20 25:15 27:1 30:6 46:5 58:17 58:18 59:5 ,8,9 61:10,11 ,11 66:18 67:21 ,22 68:5 ,11 76:13 90:2 93:2 97:21 98:11 99:17 111:22 115:21 116:1 ,6,18 117:22 123:18 124:5 ,12 124:14 126:14 130:2 175:8 176:13 192:14 206:17 207:8 209:6 215:12 224:1 230:2 231:1 **goods** 134:17 **gotcha** 81:8 **GoTo** 6:7 70:3 75:21 76:7 **gotten** 120:11 194:15 **government** 19:13 **governmental** 142:3 **granted** 211:22 **great** 30:5 123:17ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 244 218:20 **greatly** 181:22 **ground** 5:8,10 25:20 26:15 30:17 30:19 31:1 ,11 32:5 ,12 39:13 69:2 82:6 125:16 125:19 126:18 ,20 127:5 128:17 129:3 ,16 **group** 1:3 2:21 3:8 3:13 4:7 ,15 12:8 12:17 18:4,9,10 25:1 ,1 ,3 ,4,7 26:2 26:13 28:2,12 29:14 31:2,8 32:5 32:15 33:6 36:9 37:16 38:2,9,14 38:17 39:8,17 41:5 43:3 45:3 46:7 53:21 54:1 54:11 ,18 55:3 ,5 ,9 55:11 56:17 57:14 62:17 63:14,22 64:5 65:2,7 66:13 66:19 69:5 ,9,16 69:18 71:21 72:17 73:5 74:20 78:15 80:14,22 81:6 82:12,13 83:11 ,20 84:16,18 85:15 86:2,13 ,14 88:4,6 88:15 90:7 ,10,21 91:7 94:15 98:4 98:13 101:6,7 ,10 101:10 102:11 104:9,22 108:2,3 108:10 112:17 115:15 116:20 117:5 ,8 119:4 128:4,14 135:3 ,6 135:10 142:7 ,16 154:22 157:1 207:11 212:13 **grouping** 27:20 140:5 ,9 **groupings** 39:2 44:10 **groups** 18:3 95:13 **guarantee** 21:8 **guess** 70:18 85:2 94:8 100:17 114:13 115:7 118:6,8 128:4 139:9,17 145:15 147:16 160:21 170:22 172:9,16

172:19 176:17 177:9 182:6 186:21 192:18 195:12 196:9 197:19 200:1 202:22 204:1 213:17 214:3 ,13 219:18 227:4 228:2 **guide** 125:15 **guys** 16:8 110:16 118:1 177:17 181:11 191:5 193:13 194:11 203:15 213:14 217:11 218:12 **H Hagerman**  2:8 3:3 ,4 6:16 7:1 ,14,19 12:16,16 16:11 ,11 17:11 18:1 24:16 27:22,22 28:6,7 28:14 29:2,11 30:6,12,21 32:7 41:14,19 42:5 ,8 42:19 44:4,16,16 44:22 45:7 46:8 46:18 47:10,13 48:2,5 52:22,22 54:9,9,21 ,21 57:16,16 58:12 60:11 ,11 68:21 ,21 69:3 ,9 71:11 72:11 ,17 73:3 75:8 77:20 80:20 80:20 82:15 85:13 86:2,16,18 93:3 93:18 97:15 99:21 99:21 100:5 ,16 102:1 ,9 104:6,20 106:6,20 110:16 111:8 115:17 ,20 116:5 117:21 119:2,19 121:8 ,11 124:2,4,12 125:14 126:2,6,15 127:19 129:1 ,1 ,6,7 130:17 133:18 134:2,13 135:1 ,22 136:9 138:15 139:9 141:2 142:4 142:19 146:4,14 158:17 163:10,10 163:19 164:3 165:3 ,3 168:18 ,18

169:3 ,7 ,12,15 ,16 170:6,12,16,20 171:5 172:12,12 176:20 195:15 ,15 198:7 204:4,8 207:13 208:4 213:4 233:7 ,10,13 **Haier** 7:5 ,10 46:13 47:1 **half** 132:11 175:16 **hand** 111:19 194:7 **handing** 26:14 **handle** 17:10 **handled** 128:7 **hands** 5:3 44:11 ,21 91:15 **hang** 178:19 **happen** 25:14 28:11 28:13 185:5 202:12,13 208:1 227:10 **happened** 18:21 24:5 118:18 **happening** 25:16 26:21 114:7 124:9 **happens** 85:16 204:2 **happy** 218:13 **hard** 3:17 30:19 47:15 168:13 182:15 189:17 223:13 **harmonization** 11:21 159:1 **harmonize** 12:2 159:10,17 219:12 226:15 **harmonized** 159:10 **harvest** 133:9 **hate** 6:16 159:12 202:19 **head** 211:11 **headed** 215:6 **heading** 213:18 **heads** 106:12 138:6 202:7 **hear** 4:3 ,20 39:5 42:20 56:7 57:22 76:2 137:1 178:18 178:19 215:3 **heard** 20:19 21:4 33:9 51:1 58:22 170:21 205:21 **hearing** 23:14 27:2 41:9 57:17 178:7 201:22 220:14

**Hearings** 13:17 **hears** 57:14 **heat** 130:19,20,20 131:2 176:6 **heaters** 159:22 **Hello** 13:6 **help** 16:8,21 19:16 21:22 24:2 36:9 43:17 47:16 48:7 51:22 53:14 64:3 78:18 174:13 178:2,13 219:15 **helpful** 7:2 27:10 32:18 64:5 118:12 155:4,10 157:12 **helping** 135:5 **helps** 77:7 **Hermosillo** 16:6 **hesitating** 61:1 **hesitation** 95:21 208:11 **Hi** 9:3 10:20 11:11 14:7 62:8 **high** 42:18 50:17 52:4 132:6 175:18 **highlighted** 109:22 **highway** 68:19 **hinges** 223:17 **history** 134:20 170:22 **hit** 95:22 112:16 **Hoffman** 4:3 ,4 5:4 6:22 7:2 14:9 16:21 17:3 ,5 19:8 20:5 21:3 ,10 22:6 22:16 23:11 ,22 24:13 ,22 25:10 26:8,20 28:4 29:4 30:5 ,10,15 ,20 31:15 ,21 32:3 ,10 37:12 38:18 ,21 40:15 42:7 44:12 44:12 47:18 50:13 50:15 51:12 55:21 56:13 ,15 58:8 59:18 ,22 62:2 67:19 68:8,16 70:1 73:2,6,18 76:21 77:2,14,19 78:3 79:17 82:1 82:10,20 83:15 ,17 84:3 ,9,15 85:6,10 85:12,19 86:10,17 86:20 87:18 88:17 90:18 92:8 94:6 94:12,20 95:12

96:20 97:6 99:19 101:9,13 102:4 103:2,19 104:4 105:14 106:18 109:20 112:13 117:19 118:3 ,4 122:6 123:14,20 124:3 ,21 125:5 126:4,14 127:1 155:17 167:8 170:17 ,17 171:4 173:7 177:3 178:7 208:19 213:13 214:22 215:19 224:1 230:4,22 231:7 ,10,14 232:2 232:7 ,10,17 ,20 233:9,12 234:1 ,8 234:11 **hold** 30:12 35:6,14 44:22 47:15 77:3 77:14,17 221:8 **holiday** 232:3 **home** 2:11 ,12 10:12 162:19,22 174:18 206:1 **Hon** 2:15 10:3 ,3 43:1 ,1 49:13 ,13 51:13 ,13 58:1 ,1 64:11 ,11 65:10,10 73:11 ,11 79:22,22 86:11 ,11 89:2,2 92:11 ,11 93:1 100:8 101:1 105:15 108:1 ,1 130:14 134:11 ,14 134:14 135:21 136:2,11 ,11 137:11 ,11 138:1 ,1 139:1 ,1 141:14,14 155:20 189:4,4 197:17 205:14,14 207:16 221:12,12 221:16 227:13 231:3 ,3 ,18,18 232:5 ,8,13 ,18 **hope** 15:2 20:11 ,14 22:12 25:14 27:13 70:5 106:10 **hopeful** 9:6 26:21 **hopefully** 19:1 20:17 31:5 53:14 85:1 92:20 156:8 **hoping** 4:15 25:16 27:1ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 245 **Hoshizai** 2:20 **Hoshizaki** 9:12 49:6 49:7 54:3 148:3 **hotel** 204:9 205:22 206:4,12 230:21 **hours** 31:13 ,16,20 121:6 163:17 **house** 171:2 184:12 **household** 150:6 **houses** 166:2 195:18 196:3 210:8 **housing** 20:3 **how's** 76:15 **Huang** 2:5 13:11 ,11 **huddle** 31:22 36:3 **huge** 14:2 **hybrid** 7:20 44:18 49:3 51:21 131:9 131:21 132:8 ,9,9 132:10,11 133:7 139:22 144:20 147:2,4,5 ,9 149:15 150:13 ,15 150:17 ,18,19 151:17 160:11 **hybrids** 47:3 49:15 49:21 50:10 51:12 152:2 157:13 158:1 **hypothetical** 115:7

**I ice**  9:16 131:1 ,3 133:9,12,12,13 142:20 144:12 148:11 150:8 151:13 ,15 **Ice-o-Matic** 50:18 **icemaker** 7:11 9:14 133:5 143:19 145:11 150:18 **icemakers** 8:12 44:19 47:3 ,5 48:16 49:8,11 ,16 49:21 50:2,19 52:5 53:9 131:9 131:22 139:18 140:5 ,6,13 143:14 143:22 144:4,12 148:6 149:21 150:1 ,8,11 151:11 158:1 ,2 **idea** 68:16 120:13 122:4 158:11 191:13 206:13 221:2 229:22 **ideas** 37:18 123:14

**identical** 163:13 176:12 179:11 **identification** 216:15 **identified** 150:14 156:16 219:21 **identify** 43:20 64:4 176:16,17 **identifying** 216:18 **IEC** 12:2 67:7 158:21 159:9,13 159:18 164:8 ,11 164:21 **ignition** 111:19 **ignorance** 169:17 **ignore** 80:17 **ignoring** 200:4 **imagine** 99:22 129:10 **immediately** 229:11 **impact** 29:17 ,19,20 53:21 59:13 105:7 156:19 159:1 215:5 **impacting** 65:17 **impartial** 21:19 **implement** 107:17 **implication** 137:8 **implications** 145:9 168:6,6 **important** 3:5 ,5 4:16 5:11 6:20 14:15 68:19 79:8 144:18 145:10 165:22 **importantly** 33:5 **imposed** 217:10 **impression** 145:15 **inability** 179:6 **inappropriate** 139:8 **Inaudible** 50:13 **include** 63:11 83:13 85:3 132:19 133:3 133:11 144:7 171:17 187:7 189:15 216:6 226:4,11 228:6 **included** 52:12 144:5 145:6 171:18 220:7 227:8 **includes** 65:11 131:20 149:9 177:13 223:13 **including** 62:18 ,19

84:3 92:14 114:8 186:2,10 213:19 **inclusion** 143:14 **inclusive** 207:1 **incorporate** 57:10 **incorporated** 152:3 **increase** 165:17 182:20 183:6 **increased** 195:6 **incredible** 27:7 158:21 **Independence** 1:8 **indicate** 97:3 167:17 **indifferent** 48:2 **individual** 90:8 115:1 145:18 **individually** 127:11 **indoor** 14:1 171:9 **industrial** 11:8 **industry** 23:19 89:5 162:2 **infomercial** 19:9 **inform** 64:8 **informal** 12:14 **information** 27:2 37:18 53:14 64:7 73:7 136:4 148:21 **informed** 75:5 85:1 **initial** 45:6 **initially** 62:14 158:2 **input** 119:1 121:2 132:3 ,20 **inside** 23:2 141:10 **installed** 181:16 182:13 ,14 186:14 **instance** 176:9 **Institute** 2:19 13:19 **integral** 216:7 **intend** 181:11 186:10 **intended** 171:9 181:11 182:9 183:1 ,1 186:13 189:18 201:8 **intent** 96:2 97:2 111:8 115:12 116:5 128:2 199:1 199:12 210:2,11 **intention** 110:18 120:10 178:20 180:2 182:19 194:18 227:19 **interest** 7:13 8:13 49:15 51:2,5 61:12 66:14 89:4

**interested** 9:5 11:9 13:20 18:14 49:3 51:19 148:14 217:19 **interesting** 9:18 **interests** 56:20 75:5 **interpretation** 197:11 198:22 204:18 **interrupt** 6:17 **Intertech** 14:5 191:12 **intimately** 164:1 **introduce** 6:5 ,17 30:7 90:20 195:4 195:7 **introduced** 183:14 **introduction** 4:19 4:21 25:17 159:6 193:18 **invested** 18:15 **investigate** 29:1 218:13 **involve** 175:10 **involved** 11:15 ,20 43:5 79:8 142:3 144:14 158:20 **involvement** 7:12 **Isael** 4:13 16:6,6 27:5 **ISO** 164:10,11 **issuance** 205:4 226:1 **issue** 15:21 61:14 62:10,12 67:6 71:3 83:20 93:20 139:10 161:22 166:3 ,5 167:3 170:15 ,16 174:3 180:5 ,9 185:10 191:16,21 197:5 203:13 205:2 206:9,20 218:7 224:6 **issued** 211:12 **issues** 64:20 106:11 118:16 141:2 146:1 152:10 166:15 167:20 179:16 180:8 185:10 187:12 211:13 **item** 80:21 **items** 6:3 43:19 54:12 56:19 118:13 136:7

141:15 **IUC** 11:18 **J J**  2:19 **Javier** 2:3 4:11 14:12 31:9 32:18 35:20 36:11 41:14 73:2,13 82:15 97:16 119:7 123:18 142:19 207:13 223:2 **Jen** 10:11 28:10,19 40:9 45:22 49:17 74:17 83:7 87:20 95:16 114:4 120:1 122:13 ,15 155:3 173:20 174:9 192:17 193:7 194:2 195:2 202:9 225:16 227:22 234:8 **Jen's** 224:15 **Jennifer** 2:12 10:6 38:18 ,22 44:4,6 51:7 54:22 55:20 56:7 72:4 76:9,10 78:5 83:6 84:5 92:1 96:17 ,22 108:11 110:10 114:3 118:5 136:22 138:8 ,9 144:9,10 146:22 148:5 156:6 157:5 157:6 162:12 167:8 ,9 170:21 174:8 192:16 213:6 215:1 218:16 225:15 **Jennifer's** 233:13 **Jenny** 39:20 **Jim** 147:14 **Joanna** 2:16 11:5 40:4,7 ,8 59:14 107:1 ,10,11 174:22 184:19,20 186:20 209:7 213:16 214:14 215:3 ,9 **job** 23:7 75:19 158:21 175:8 **jobs** 10:1 **Joe** 3:3 12:16 16:11 21:4 24:16 25:13 27:3 ,18,22 28:7ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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**key** 20:9 111:19 141:2 152:9 200:4 **kick** 212:17 **kicked** 226:8 **kicks** 202:1 **kind** 13:20 14:3 16:7 37:15 39:2 44:10 47:13 59:11 74:19 85:3 107:3 117:9 119:12,16 131:4 145:20 146:22 148:22 155:11 157:9 158:22 162:16 167:3 175:16 177:14 181:9 183:22 200:14 204:20 211:14 215:10 221:1 **knew** 79:11 **knit-picky** 92:2 **know** 3:17 4:20 6:6 6:10 7:3 12:10 15:1 18:19 22:20 24:3 ,6 26:3 27:20 28:14 35:19 36:5 37:4 39:3 ,4 41:2 42:10,19 43:19 44:7 ,22 45:2,3 ,15 45:18 47:7 ,14 48:7 50:11 ,12,17 56:10 60:14 61:5 61:13 ,18 62:14 63:18 70:3 ,7 71:16 74:21 ,22 75:17 77:21 78:9 79:12,15 80:1 81:4,10 85:8,15 88:11 ,13 92:4 94:22 95:15 97:1 100:22 106:11 107:15 109:4 111:5 ,10,18 113:10,13 114:7 114:13 115:12 120:4 121:2,17 125:11 129:19 133:18 140:2 143:22 144:12,14 144:17 ,17 145:2,5 145:8 ,17 ,22 146:16 147:5 148:6 155:12 157:12 158:15 159:3 162:13 ,15 163:3 166:12,17

166:19 167:2,3 ,12 167:15 ,17 168:11 168:13 174:17 175:4,6,21 ,22,22 176:4,5 180:16 181:4 186:17 189:22 190:18 191:6,11 ,16,18 192:2,14 193:1 ,18 193:20 194:4,6 195:5 198:2,13 199:18 200:2,3 ,7 201:6 202:16 205:11 207:9,10 208:15 209:21 210:12 211:12,12 217:8 221:5 ,5 ,17 221:19 222:1 227:20 230:11 **knowing** 37:6 170:22 **knowledge** 50:20 64:6 **knows** 192:7 **Kuch** 10:20,21 43:13 65:2 **L lab**  13:7 180:10 184:17 189:21 190:2,10,12,13 ,18 192:6 **labeled** 206:11 **labeling** 141:18 205:19 **labels** 142:12 **labor** 19:11 **labs** 160:5 184:13 **labyrinth** 125:20 **lack** 143:7 176:17 **language** 22:18 25:19 81:22 85:3 91:6 94:14 95:1 105:6,10 107:21 137:22 179:10 209:21 **large** 140:13 **larger** 25:7 28:2 203:2 **late** 3:10 230:17 232:13 **Laughter** 100:2 **Laura** 203:11 **Lawrence** 13:7 **lawyer** 3:11 30:14 32:8

**lawyers** 217:20 **lead** 12:14 **learn** 5:6 9:2 **learned** 27:7 **learning** 4:14 **leave** 63:8 72:3 73:15 92:5 116:1 122:5 133:22 227:7 **leery** 174:5 **left** 129:17 147:22 213:5 214:11 215:14 225:15 229:15 **left-** 176:22 **leftover** 206:1 **legal** 62:10,13 64:20 134:21 **legally** 64:22 224:16 **lengthen** 108:21 **lessening** 29:20 **let's** 4:2 12:19 13:9 19:4,4,4 28:8,11 35:11 37:1 41:20 44:20 46:10 57:21 60:13 61:9,13 67:20 69:15 ,19 70:7 ,12 71:20,21 72:11 77:8 78:7 78:10 80:21 81:19 83:4 84:6 89:22 90:3 91:1 ,4,14 93:7 97:9,12,13 98:2,8,12 99:14 99:18 101:18 ,21 101:22 104:12 108:8 109:8 110:13 112:10,16 112:18 116:14,19 116:21 117:2 123:3 125:2 126:17 ,20 128:16 130:1 133:14 135:1 ,17 148:16 159:8 167:22 168:20 178:1 ,15 198:3 204:15 207:13 211:14 220:20,21 225:10 225:11 ,13 231:7 233:4 **letters** 203:12 **letting** 75:17 111:5 **level** 8:5 11:2 23:8 33:12 36:19 41:12 54:15 61:20 69:20

73:21 **levels** 34:6,6 38:4 41:11 60:9 107:15 218:2 **lieu** 229:7 **lifetime** 29:18 **lighting** 11:9 **likewise** 55:8 **limit** 99:7 **limited** 10:17 172:22 176:5 **line** 50:15 85:14 107:7 118:20 182:15 ,22 189:17 192:3 195:4 218:5 **lines** 51:21 201:18 **link** 179:6 231:16 **linked** 231:20 **list** 48:3 56:18 71:21 73:4,17 74:7 87:16 118:12 **listed** 139:6 143:17 189:10 **listening** 57:3 **literally** 18:1 **literature** 144:2 **litigation** 115:2 206:13 **little** 3:10,12 4:21 15:17 23:5 25:12 25:17 26:16 28:17 32:17 33:2,21 ,22 34:16 35:7 ,9,22 36:1 ,3 38:19 39:22 42:9,14,17 42:18 55:2 58:19 61:6 70:7 72:1 78:18 87:21 89:16 96:10 106:12 112:9 118:7 121:18 129:8 ,15 146:8 147:16 156:10 158:18 165:6 177:22 178:5 ,18 192:18 194:6,10 195:12 203:22 208:16 209:8 215:17 225:9 229:19,20 230:14,15 ,18 232:16 **live** 23:18 33:10,11 33:14 34:11 42:7 56:15 75:13 **load** 162:19 163:5ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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**loosely** 209:22 **lose** 148:11 162:10 **loss** 157:15 **lost** 126:1 **lot** 4:18 15:20,20 16:1 ,4 19:11 ,14 43:5 68:13 75:4,7 82:17 103:16 124:8 ,13 136:18 138:6,11 ,12 148:20 157:7 159:3 171:2 188:4 197:20 206:12 209:15 **lots** 121:14 136:19 **low** 42:17 159:21 160:1 **low-hanging** 157:3 **lower** 98:15 132:4,5 185:12 **lowest** 33:12 41:12 **lump** 154:7 **lumped** 149:8 228:16 **lunch** 15:1 ,2,4 22:19 32:8,9,10 110:21 ,22 111:2 114:7 124:22 125:11 127:2,3 **M machine**  9:16 **Madison** 12:9 **madness** 67:19 **main** 223:6,6,14 **maintain** 88:8 150:9 161:15 162:7 ,9 179:5 183:11 ,13 185:1 ,11 ,14 187:1 187:18 189:3 191:17 ,18 194:8 196:14 200:3 ,8 210:10,15 ,19 214:1 221:9 **maintained** 191:17 **maintaining** 132:3 132:21 139:17 158:13 165:8 167:18 188:16 191:8 196:7 198:10 **major** 12:8 21:6 152:20 **majority** 38:7 ,8 69:18 74:4 80:4 80:10

**making** 7:17 43:7 47:8 75:12 107:18 109:13 114:5 150:8 **man** 77:22 **mandate** 79:2 **manipulating** 173:17 174:13 **manual** 150:19 **manufacture** 50:4,9 51:14,15 61:21 62:6 194:19 **manufactured** 20:3 **manufacturer** 46:11 47:8 49:16 49:18 187:3 192:7 203:1 **manufacturers** 2:13 10:1 ,12,13 12:9 40:19,21 43:7 ,7 44:8 45:10,16 52:11 ,16 184:13 188:4 192:22 195:9 **manufactures** 50:18 53:7 61:17 **manufacturing** 2:15 10:4,9 43:1 47:22 49:13 51:2,5 58:1 64:12 79:22 134:15 139:2 141:14 **mapping** 57:18 151:17 **Marciniak** 2:22 8:15 ,16 39:7 ,15 39:19 48:18 ,18 49:9 58:19 59:6,9 66:12,22 87:5 ,19 91:17 ,22 98:18 **mark** 52:6 114:3 **marker** 80:11 **market** 13:1 40:22 43:4,11 45:14 151:22 201:14 203:2 **marketed** 139:16 186:14 **marry** 156:17 **Mary** 2:14 9:3 49:1 51:10,17 55:19 75:11 105:19 112:22 116:6 145:12 146:20,21 206:18 ,19 **material** 27:5 ,8

129:19 **materially** 115:14 **materials** 73:8 119:20 129:9,12 **matter** 8:21 36:8 62:13 63:6 131:6 188:20 221:7 ,10 **matters** 121:21 217:9 227:20 **Mauer** 2:16 11:5 ,5 40:8,8,16 59:14 59:14,21 60:20 84:21 85:8,11 107:11 ,11 ,22 174:22,22 184:20 184:20 186:20 187:10,14 209:7 ,7 209:14 213:16 **maximum** 8:2 42:2 123:15 **maze** 125:20 **mean** 21:5 22:22 36:12 42:5 ,10 43:14 44:10 46:1 51:15 52:10 57:19 61:12 71:5 74:7 81:2 92:2 93:13 96:15 101:3 102:18 109:11 ,12 115:12 124:12,14 133:4 135:3 137:1 138:10,10 144:11 144:15 146:5 154:7 155:5 161:19 163:16 165:17 ,21 166:15 172:14 179:7 183:9,17 186:4 188:11 ,21 190:9 191:20 192:1 ,10 193:11 194:3 196:3 ,12 197:9 198:21 199:5 ,11 199:13 200:17 202:11 203:8 ,15 204:20 205:17 215:9,22 217:12 218:3 ,18 221:22 222:5 228:2,13 233:21 **meaning** 38:10 **meaningless** 163:6 **means** 25:5 42:6 51:20,21 60:17 133:12 169:12 190:3 194:16

**meant** 79:17 93:22 182:9 183:4,18 189:18 ,19 217:17 **measure** 169:19,20 169:21 183:6 **measuring** 170:7 **meat** 15:4 164:16 **mechanical** 114:7 132:19 **mechanically** 110:20 111:3 **mechanism** 21:7 **mediating** 5:18 **Mediation** 2:3 ,5 4:9 14:13 16:7 19:9 **medium** 130:21 **meet** 5:19 161:12 173:9,12,15 174:14 185:4 186:6,7 187:20 189:13 190:16,19 190:20,21 197:2,7 197:8 203:4,9,14 205:8 206:9,15 210:21 211:6 **meeting** 1:1 ,3 2:1 6:4,7 22:17 23:1 ,2 24:7 ,13 25:11 ,13 27:4 44:2 53:3 54:7 60:21 67:11 70:3 71:2 75:7 ,22 76:7 ,17 77:3 ,15 77:18 78:8 ,11 115:10 117:8 ,17 118:11 ,13 ,18 119:6,9,11 ,12 120:4,14 122:7 ,14 122:19 124:9 129:12 130:11 230:14 231:4 233:8 234:13 **meetings** 3:18 ,19 19:1 ,3 ,5 24:15 ,15 27:10 74:20 75:3 90:4 99:22 119:3 119:21 122:22 124:10 126:13 138:22 230:5 ,17 232:6 **meets** 161:4 205:9 **member** 10:5 80:4 81:3 ,3 85:22 88:4 90:8,21 99:4 **member's** 85:16 **members** 10:15ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 248 25:3 ,22 32:15 54:11 58:13 60:18 75:22 80:22 81:2 81:10 84:17 86:12 88:15 121:1 184:7 **Memorial** 124:17 124:18 **mention** 29:9 37:12 50:6 51:2 83:8 107:8 **mentioned** 51:9,10 52:10 136:6 164:7 199:8 205:15 210:16 **mentions** 20:5 21:10 **met** 205:7 **Method** 67:19 **methods** 207:3 **microphones** 15:8 **middle** 21:14 **mike** 14:5 ,15 76:1 136:10 **Mile** 50:17 52:4 **mind** 55:1 ,3 ,12 80:21 93:3 111:4 125:11 130:7 ,18 131:4 144:19 205:2 233:16,18 **minimizing** 182:1 **minimum** 187:17 206:15 **minor** 54:14 126:21 **minute** 103:15 128:9 216:2 **minutes** 14:22 31:4 32:13 36:5 56:3 108:7 117:3 178:4 **mirror** 156:10 **miscellaneous** 1:2 3:8 12:18 13:21 18:6 43:15 51:20 52:13 62:16,21 63:5 130:3 ,8 131:6,12,17 ,18 143:15 144:5 147:2 154:13 166:16 168:3 171:12 214:6 217:5 ,14 223:11 **missed** 88:9 **missing** 75:7 **missions** 19:17 **misspellings** 16:18 **misstated** 59:15 **misunderstood** 212:17

**mixed** 15:17 151:1 **Mm-hmm** 188:13 **model** 4:16 133:10 139:11 **modification** 198:8 **modifications** 81:1 101:15 112:20 123:1 **modified** 96:9 107:21 135:19 **modify** 81:20 224:16 **modifying** 180:2 **Monday** 1:12 100:10 **months** 16:9 19:2 100:1 125:8 230:6 230:6 **morning** 4:3 5:9 9:11 12:5 230:17 230:17 **mouth** 214:14,16 215:4 **Mouw** 2:18 8:10,10 45:21 ,21 48:10 50:16,22 51:9 53:16,16 74:5 ,11 86:4 88:7 103:21 103:21 122:12,12 122:21 188:7 ,10 188:14,21 197:18 199:10 200:1 203:20 204:12 214:12 223:2 **move** 12:19 28:21 37:2 67:10 68:22 78:16 89:17 91:6 110:22 201:14 223:22 **moving** 30:16 84:9 89:14 108:8 201:10 **MREF** 18:4 140:5 **multiple** 29:15 151:5 **mutual** 121:5 **N N**  3:1 **nail** 229:21 **name** 6:14 8:15 9:3 10:20 11:11 13:6 13:13 14:12 16:6 16:13 38:21 71:7 73:16 85:16 92:21 **named** 19:16

**narrative** 177:1 **Nat** 53:16 **Nate** 2:18 48:10 50:16 82:1 188:7 203:20 204:12 214:12 **Nathan** 8:10 45:21 74:5 103:21 122:12 196:20 197:16,18 199:10 204:4 223:1 ,3 **nation** 206:17 **National** 13:7 29:20 **nature** 17:20 139:4 146:8 **nausaem** 135:4 **Navigant** 6:9 12:22 13:3 22:12 24:16 30:3 133:19 148:19 153:9 161:9 171:8 185:8 **NCRs** 185:19 **near** 51:15 160:21 160:22 **NECA** 216:15 **necessarily** 33:13 121:3 144:17 ,20 179:5 ,7 ,9 182:21 185:14 186:15 192:1 193:22 194:13 205:10 206:5 **necessary** 176:4 **need** 7:1 14:18 ,18 14:21 16:4,5 24:17 ,19,22 25:22 28:21 35:15 ,21 36:1 42:1 ,9 43:2,3 43:10,19 47:21 48:6 54:20 57:11 65:22 68:15 69:21 72:8 76:21 77:2 78:22 79:21 81:5 81:10,20 85:17 87:8,9 91:9 94:14 102:1 ,9 106:3 ,3 106:15 111:11 117:16 118:19 121:4,5 ,17 ,22 123:8 124:11 125:22 135:9,19 140:7 141:3 142:18 144:21 152:10,12,17 156:2 158:3 163:18 164:5

166:14 168:13 171:21 172:2 178:18 179:10 182:5 192:12 194:10 195:7 203:8 ,13 ,16,18 205:2 208:15 215:11 219:3 ,5 225:19 229:19 234:9 **needed** 18:2 52:3 53:11 78:17 141:10 200:5 233:1 **needing** 179:11 **needs** 77:18 81:3 86:7 147:10 207:17 **neg** 9:4 **negative** 33:22 56:11 58:2,3 ,5 ,8,9 69:11 112:11 113:2,10,15 127:15 **negotiate** 83:21 115:22 218:1 228:5 **negotiated** 5:1 ,13 6:1 7:8 19:21 20:6 21:16,18 26:11 31:1 177:19 **negotiating** 115:21 213:15 226:16 227:19 **negotiation** 27:19 29:5 227:7 ,11 **negotiations** 12:14 37:21 100:14 205:12 **negs** 4:22 5:1 41:5 114:14 **neutral** 64:15 **never** 18:11 ,21 161:22 162:7 165:15 **new** 4:12 8:16,19 129:16 145:2,6 146:15 152:13 153:2,8,22 154:3 154:6,12 158:14 166:16,17 ,17 217:22 225:1 ,20 225:21 **nice** 109:15 142:21 **niggling** 89:7 **night's** 230:21

**nine** 14:9 **Ninety** 174:19 **ninth** 232:9 **nitty-gritty** 158:7 **no's** 26:17 **nominate** 86:4 88:4 **nominated** 46:18 92:16 **nomination** 87:10 92:18 **non-compression** 53:19 66:17 **non-compressor** 10:16 44:18 46:16 46:16,21 ,22 47:2 47:4 131:8 ,22 132:10,16,17 133:1 ,8 137:12,20 147:17 149:13 153:6,14 154:1 ,7 154:11 ,15 155:8 158:1 189:2 197:7 197:22 199:15 ,15 212:8 213:22 214:15 ,17 215:13 217:2,6 219:10,20 220:4 221:8 224:18 225:4 227:6 228:9,16 **non-compressor- ...**  52:18 **non-condenser** 224:8 **non-consensus** 39:10 40:1 **non-icemaker** 141:11 **non-perishable** 136:16 **non-responsive** 48:9 **NOPR** 102:10 103:13 ,14 104:19 105:12 129:14 143:21 149:1 **normal** 20:16 **normally** 34:7 37:21 90:13 **note** 91:18 152:19 **noted** 139:14,19 152:1 **notes** 16:9 144:1 **nothing's** 24:7 **notice** 20:12 103:7 ,8 104:16,17 110:1 ,3ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 249 110:4 134:8 **noticed** 33:11 39:8 83:8 **Notwithstanding** 48:5 **NSF** 138:19 139:3 ,6 139:12 141:21 **nuances** 141:22 **number** 27:9 39:17 42:2 60:10 61:20 62:17 66:6 67:12 69:19 74:2,8,13 75:9,18 76:16 77:9 80:10 83:5 84:7 ,10 87:4 91:5 91:15 97:13 98:14 98:15 ,15 101:21 111:16 112:19 116:12,19,22,22 117:3 122:11 123:4,6,10,12,15 134:14 164:5 168:19 169:5 ,7 184:16 190:11 **numbers** 54:19 74:21 ,22 76:20 153:1 **numerous** 201:6 **O O**  3:1 **o'clock** 230:19 **obey** 216:14 **object** 114:17 **objected** 140:15 **objecting** 115:15 **objection** 82:18 138:2 147:16 **objections** 115:1 **obligation** 23:12 **obligations** 89:1 **observation** 124:15 184:22 **observe** 13:12,19 16:8 **obvious** 165:21 **obviously** 3:4 11:2 17:19 18:3 ,14 28:15 49:19 53:18 55:7 62:4 63:15 64:9 70:19 71:12 80:3 181:15 201:17 203:17 **occasionally** 23:1 **occur** 81:21 **October** 7:6 **odd** 156:14

**OEMs** 45:12 **offense** 82:21 **offer** 33:19 112:5 142:20 **office** 13:14,16 30:8 142:6 220:9,17 223:18 **offices** 21:22 **official** 3:7 ,19 41:15 41:17 **oh** 78:8 **okay** 4:21 7:20 14:21 17:9 19:8 28:4,8 29:4 32:11 34:21 35:15 ,18 36:16,17 39:6,15 41:13 ,21 42:2,21 43:12 47:12 53:10 56:2,3 ,10 59:9,22 60:1 ,19 61:8 62:1 66:5 ,9,11 ,21 67:4 67:13 ,15 69:16 72:7 ,14,15 73:20 74:11 ,16 76:21 77:9,17 79:3 80:13 ,16,19,19 81:19 82:9 83:4 84:4,5 ,6 89:13 ,16 90:2 91:2,22 93:1 93:17 95:7 97:10 97:12 98:9,11 99:15 ,17 100:10 100:11 101:19,21 102:4,6 107:7 ,10 107:20,21 108:9 109:19 111:15 112:5 ,8 113:18 114:1 115:3 ,19 116:9,9,10,15 ,22 118:5 123:6 125:3 125:10 126:22 128:11 ,16,19 130:17 134:2 138:6,8,10 139:12 146:4 147:12 164:3 169:15 170:6 171:4 177:20 180:6 181:8 188:14 196:18 202:20 209:14,17 212:1 212:14 215:7 219:17 ,19,20 220:8 ,22 223:15 229:22 230:10 231:7 ,11 232:2,2

232:3 ,17 ,20,22 **old** 164:10 **onboard** 150:7 **once** 16:15 58:17 148:8 162:6 225:12 **one-for-one** 18:13 **one-pager** 122:17 **one-to-one** 179:8 **onerous** 88:22 **ones** 73:12 111:2 120:7 188:21 ,22 **online** 14:10 74:14 77:10 **onset** 28:2 **open** 39:4 75:22 81:9 172:10 **opened** 183:14 200:10 **opening** 6:18,20 134:4 163:4 197:13 **openings** 162:20 163:13 174:17 175:10 176:6 180:19,21 ,22 181:1 ,4 182:3 183:22 199:3 ,4,7 199:17 200:5 ,19 210:9 **operate** 68:16 69:5 92:18 147:19 **operated** 176:1 ,3 216:4 **operating** 29:18 182:11 193:20 194:21 195:1 196:10 201:4 210:4 211:20 **operation** 140:8 **opinion** 180:1 193:12 **opinions** 81:11 **opportunity** 64:1 114:22 207:19 **oppose** 140:4 **opposed** 97:7 194:13 201:10 **opted** 217:12 **option** 233:17 **options** 22:9,10 125:11 **order** 15:16 37:22 69:22 82:9 158:9 171:11 180:12 **organization** 85:7

85:20 90:19 **organizations** 5:15 21:14 23:19 **original** 139:5 189:13 **originally** 216:15 **Orman** 6:15 ,15 7:5 7:5 ,17 46:13 ,13 46:20 47:7 ,12,20 **other's** 39:5 **ought** 108:18 **outcome** 27:18 104:2 113:4 **outdoor** 14:1 **outdoors** 216:5 **outside** 23:2 55:9 62:20 90:9 141:9 **overall** 143:1 **overlap** 172:3 179:1 **overlooked** 113:11 **overview** 17:10,12 25:17 **P P**  3:1 **p.m** 234:14 **packages** 164:12,16 **packaging** 164:17 **page** 69:4 78:2 80:21 89:9 108:6 138:16 145:22 158:7 ,8 204:16 **pages** 31:14 145:18 **paid** 17:8 **Pam** 13:13 **pan** 160:10 **panel** 66:16 99:3 **paragraph** 31:10 32:14 82:16 83:20 84:1 ,12,12 87:22 97:17 106:16 110:5 **parallel** 103:1 227:15 **pardon** 169:17 **parent** 10:6 86:13 86:14 108:2 231:4 **parentheses** 96:14 **parking** 15:20,20 16:1 ,4 **part** 8:9 12:13 26:10 27:13 28:20 32:22 37:16 63:5 63:11 70:11 104:3 129:9 157:10 172:14 187:7 ,8

191:15 205:16,18 215:6,21 216:7 224:13 **participants** 23:14 32:5 84:10 114:17 **participate** 26:3 40:21 76:6 **participated** 114:15 124:7 **participating** 93:13 105:22 **participation** 25:21 32:15 76:12 90:4 **particular** 8:3 18:18 21:21 27:9 62:12 63:7 71:1 133:19 145:22 158:9 175:4 211:14 **particularly** 158:11 174:15 **parties** 51:1 84:16 **partly** 175:5 **Partner** 9:19 **parts** 163:19 **party** 75:1 165:14 180:10 189:21 190:2 **pass** 30:18 ,22 31:3 126:9 221:22 **passed** 68:8 129:8 **paste** 39:14 **pasting** 103:17 **pat** 25:12 **path** 64:22 214:4 **pathway** 218:14 **Pause** 91:13 103:18 **pay** 106:4 **paying** 35:19 **people** 4:12 5:12 6:7 9:9 20:21 37:15 38:9,10,16 39:2 41:3 43:6 45:4 54:6 57:8,10 69:21 75:7 ,17 ,18 76:16 79:7 ,19 80:11 93:6 95:14 97:2 99:1 116:2 118:1 123:15 134:5 140:2 142:22 166:2,8 178:10 181:13 ,14 201:12 225:8 **people's** 41:15 42:20 **perceived** 23:13ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 250 **percent** 21:8 26:16 139:20 176:10 232:19 **percentage** 152:5 **perfect** 119:15 174:12 **perform** 29:15 143:17 162:21 166:7 ,22 174:20 176:14 **performance** 11:18 11:19 29:19 65:6 173:19 200:5 **performs** 154:16 **period** 94:18 167:1 227:20 **perishable** 130:15 134:17 136:8 ,13 136:14 **permitted** 95:20 96:19,20 **person** 16:22 35:17 66:22 93:15 96:7 96:19,21 97:5 ,6 **person's** 36:14 113:12 **personally** 138:13 204:13 **perspective** 51:19 165:6 178:9 189:15 200:21 223:8 226:19 **perspectives** 198:5 **pertain** 56:20 59:12 **phased** 229:9 **phone** 93:4 **physically** 45:16 76:7 77:10 221:17 **pick** 5:6 57:5 157:12 174:4 225:14 234:5 **picking** 36:12 **picky** 107:3 109:11 **piece** 30:11 70:13 156:4 163:18 205:12 **pieces** 180:15 **pigeon** 96:8 **pivotal** 204:15 **place** 120:20 224:13 **placed** 206:16 **places** 111:11 159:16,20,21 **planet** 164:19 **planned** 3:6 **planning** 102:19 **play** 23:4 205:13

**player** 21:6 **playing** 8:5 **please** 27:15 47:16 48:7 95:9 **plus** 8:17 **pocket** 35:5 ,12 **point** 24:9 27:17 30:6 38:7 54:8,15 74:3 75:12 76:12 76:13 77:17 88:7 89:7 93:11 109:13 142:5 145:11 152:12 155:21 162:13 171:22 184:1 189:6 191:2 194:19 199:13 212:4 215:9,11 ,11 217:17 233:14 **pointed** 140:10 **points** 29:8 57:12 91:7 142:5 173:4 180:4 **policy** 62:11 64:21 **politically** 58:10 **Pontillo** 13:13 ,13 **pop** 125:20 **portable** 149:22 150:5 **portion** 97:3 207:18 230:1 **portrayed** 27:1 **position** 61:22 67:10 **possibility** 54:5 79:7 93:2 104:18 230:12 **possible** 16:20 18:16 23:17 27:18 37:18 72:6 83:11 98:16 104:2 120:10 121:13 ,20 123:20,22 164:17 206:13 221:17 227:13 **possibly** 161:22 222:13 **post** 16:17 31:8 **potatoes** 15:5 **potential** 3:20 166:20 172:19 173:6 187:11 **potentially** 99:7 128:3 135:19 184:6,15 202:21 205:9 219:10 224:16 229:9

**pounds** 9:17 **PowerPoint** 126:8 129:8 **practical** 184:17 225:3 **practice** 168:10 **preamble** 105:7 ,11 193:16 **precede** 109:14 **precursor** 198:16 **prefer** 34:17 93:18 162:2 **preference** 55:7 97:4,5 ,6,7 108:21 227:3 **preliminary** 15:3 45:2 129:14 148:22 149:3 ,6 152:22 153:12 154:20 175:14 217:16 **premature** 204:22 **premium** 12:10 **prepared** 117:8 118:17 121:1 **present** 61:2 66:18 69:22 75:2,19 77:10 **presentation** 129:16 145:16 **presentations** 64:7 126:12 **presented** 25:6 176:8 **presently** 189:9 **presents** 90:20 **pressure** 118:2 **presumably** 195:17 213:8 **pretty** 8:20 13:4 15:13 16:15 25:15 119:5 128:1 129:20 133:4 135:13 151:1 173:3 195:10 **Prevention** 13:15 **previous** 131:13 138:3 139:10 172:14 182:7 193:17 **previously** 80:13 **price** 22:2 **principal** 10:8 **principles** 197:11 198:22 **prior** 7:7 50:9

118:10 122:22 186:9 193:17 **probably** 14:22 21:13 28:16 61:17 80:15 88:16 104:16 105:8 108:18 124:16 127:10 128:1 ,6 145:19 147:7 148:15 ,21 157:16 158:7 163:17 183:3 217:22 224:13 229:19 **problem** 37:17 48:6 124:17 138:15 157:11 161:19 173:13 ,18 174:7 **problems** 166:21 **procedure** 10:18 11:22 14:6 18:22 21:11 102:3 ,10 104:7 ,10,11 ,16,21 105:21 107:4,9 108:17 111:9 112:9 114:8 127:8 137:3 143:21 147:10 148:14 149:1 159:11 ,13 159:18 161:10 167:12 174:13 175:10 176:13 ,19 179:5 ,12,20 185:9 192:20 197:12 199:1 ,2 213:9 **procedures** 6:2 11:21 18:6 81:12 83:9,14,15 ,22 84:3 102:7 ,15 103:1 106:2,13 107:4,6,9,14,19 108:20 109:3 ,14 109:16 111:7 128:5 146:9,11 147:6 166:18 179:4,4 186:12 197:14 201:3 216:21 **proceed** 16:9 **proceeding** 63:3 ,9 **proceeds** 168:7 **process** 4:13 ,22 7:9 13:12 16:8,15 17:12 19:18 20:8 20:16 21:6,18 22:13 23:12,15 25:18 28:13 29:5

33:8 42:14 77:5 78:21 81:8 ,8 87:10,11 107:16 107:17 112:2 113:9 124:7 159:5 207:19,20,22 227:10 **processes** 207:22 **produce** 10:16 133:9 **produced** 7:11 **product** 8:16 11:22 12:19 43:8 45:16 45:19,19 62:15 63:2,12 130:9 131:1 ,8,11 ,12,19 132:8 ,13 133:5 ,7 133:11 ,20 135:6,8 140:8 ,11 141:3 ,11 141:16,17 142:18 144:2 146:6,13 ,19 147:21 148:6,17 149:1 ,6,8,14,16 149:17 ,19 150:2 150:22 151:3 ,5 ,12 151:17 ,19,20 152:2,11 ,13 ,15 ,18 152:20 153:5 ,6,7 153:8 ,13 154:18 156:1 ,11 ,14 158:12 160:1 ,6,11 160:14,15 ,17 ,18 161:1 ,3 ,5 ,12,15 162:3 ,4,7 ,15 ,19 162:21 163:7 165:7 ,14 166:6,11 168:8 169:10,11 171:16 172:1 173:9 176:10 180:10,12,20 181:11 183:11 ,21 185:4,6,11 187:3 187:18 189:22 190:1 ,3 ,13 ,19 191:12 192:8 195:22 199:9,12 201:3 203:3 ,9,11 203:14 206:7 ,15 216:12,18 217:4 217:13 218:1 ,1 220:6 222:14 223:11 224:7 ,21 225:1 ,1 ,20 **productive** 5:19 100:15ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 251 **products** 3:9 7:11 7:11 8:14,22 10:4 10:13 ,16 12:12 14:1 18:7 27:19 28:12 40:22 41:3 43:8,8,15 44:8,14 44:18 45:11 46:6 48:4,12,14,20,21 51:2,6 53:7 ,20 54:1 55:4 61:16 61:17 ,19,20 62:7 130:3 ,8 131:7 ,9 131:21 132:11 ,12 136:7 ,19,19 137:5 139:14,15 ,22 140:1 ,6,13 ,19 141:5 ,6,9 142:1 142:13 ,14 143:15 143:22 144:6,13 144:20 145:6 147:1 ,2,5 149:10 149:15 ,19 150:14 151:14,21 152:16 152:19,22 153:10 153:13 154:8 ,13 156:16 157:9 159:12 166:17 ,21 166:22 167:13 ,18 168:4,7 172:21 173:1 ,14,18 174:6 174:11 ,19 175:18 176:1 ,14,17 177:11 181:12 182:9 184:16 185:1 ,18 188:2,5 188:15 189:7 ,9 190:22 191:7 195:17 196:2,5 ,10 196:14 197:1 ,1 ,6 198:17 ,19 201:13 201:20 202:2,14 205:6,8,19 206:8 207:4,11 209:16 210:6,7 ,14 211:8 212:6,10 213:19 214:7 216:13 217:6,14 219:20 222:8 ,10,12,16 225:22 228:4 229:10 **professional** 5:14 81:11 **progress** 159:3 **prohibit** 115:15 **Project** 2:16 11:6 **projected** 29:18 **pronounce** 126:8

**propane** 14:1 **proposal** 50:8 75:8 135:22 139:5 156:21 167:11 175:2 **propose** 63:19 80:22 108:14 111:7 131:14 191:4 229:7 **proposed** 63:14 102:14,15 ,16,18 102:21 103:2,3 ,7 103:9 104:17 ,18 105:6,10,12,12,16 106:16 108:13 ,18 108:19 109:2,3 110:2,3 111:6 127:7 ,8 128:6 131:16 138:17 140:11 150:1 151:3 153:14 154:2 157:11 158:11 161:10 166:17 171:15 ,17 179:17 187:16 189:1 217:15 **proposing** 102:19 155:11 168:4 185:13 193:10 202:11 227:5 **protocol** 25:20 **provide** 79:1 82:7 115:8 147:20 156:20 173:18 191:9 **provided** 217:9 **provision** 133:11 177:8 185:3 **provisions** 114:18 115:1 132:7 224:19,20 225:2 **proxy** 94:21 96:5 ,11 **public** 1:1 6:4,4,5 14:10 22:22 23:20 24:2 53:3 63:16 90:13 ,14,15 105:22 112:11 115:10 126:11 127:16 129:11 130:11 138:22 196:14 **publication** 104:4 **publications** 11:15 **published** 16:20 129:13 **publishing** 104:19

**pull** 69:8 178:2 **pump** 130:19,20,21 **pumping** 131:2 **punt** 110:17 **pure** 62:13 **purpose** 6:11 26:8 83:10 229:2 **purposes** 139:16 201:6 216:11 **pursue** 203:1 **purview** 205:16 219:11 **push** 72:1 76:2 118:6 **put** 15:13 ,20 35:4 35:12,15 40:6,19 63:15 68:22 80:17 95:14 96:4 98:15 111:19 112:3 118:9 136:12 142:12 153:21 ,22 155:5 158:19 181:13 189:12,17 203:16 206:1 ,6,10 207:8 211:14 214:14,16 215:4 227:14 **puts** 15:17 **putting** 27:5 136:3 154:6 206:8 ,14 213:20 **Q qualification**  191:10 **qualifies** 203:6 **qualify** 191:3 205:8 **qualifying** 74:22 189:17 192:4 **question** 7:14 35:20 35:21 37:6 40:20 41:19 44:9 52:6 58:2 70:6 80:15 83:2 86:12 87:6 93:5 94:13 100:13 113:1 115:6 134:3 134:21 136:15 142:17 145:3 147:1 157:19 163:11 169:17 177:5 ,10,15 ,20 182:6 184:21 185:22 189:5 192:3 ,21 195:16 202:19 211:7 212:17 ,19 214:13 215:12,20 221:16

223:8 ,13 224:15 226:21 228:3 **questioned** 194:14 **questioning** 39:21 **questions** 27:14 28:5 33:18 43:14 48:13 52:2 53:10 55:1 78:7 81:13 84:19 98:5 116:11 128:7 ,15 134:22 138:7 147:4 153:3 155:1 ,18 194:15 211:13 **quick** 3:12 6:16 17:12 32:22 36:3 60:12 64:11 87:5 110:17 127:5 129:11 163:11 165:5 195:16 223:19 **quicker** 32:2 **quickly** 121:13 ,18 **quite** 10:4 15:22 16:3 18:1 31:16 43:20 94:4 127:6 138:4 141:20 164:12 196:9 205:19 **quorum** 26:5 32:4 32:15 54:16 58:16 69:15 ,21 70:11 ,14 71:2 74:1 ,1 ,13 76:21 77:3 ,9,18 78:7 81:17 ,21 92:14,17 **R R**  3:1 **raise** 33:17 80:9 **raised** 208:14 **RAMERIZ** 13:9 **Ramirez** 2:3 4:11 14:12,13 17:1 ,4 30:18 31:19 32:1 32:20 33:16 34:5 37:19 39:6,13 ,16 40:4,14 41:8,17 41:20 42:12,21 43:12,18 44:20 45:5 ,8,13 ,20 46:10 47:21 48:3 50:11 ,14,21 51:7 51:22 52:2,6,14 53:10,13 54:2,12 55:13 56:6,14,16 57:21 58:5 ,14

59:3 ,8,10 60:1 ,4 60:19 61:1 62:1 65:14 66:5 ,11 ,21 67:2,13 ,20 68:3 ,7 68:9 69:2,7 ,16 70:6 71:10 72:1 ,7 72:14,19,22 73:14 73:20 74:10,12,16 75:20 76:14,18 77:1 ,4 78:12 79:9 79:15 80:6,19 81:13 ,16,19 82:3 83:1 ,4,16 84:5 ,14 84:19 85:22 86:3 87:2,13 88:13 ,18 89:13 90:2,11 ,22 91:4,8,14,21 92:7 92:9,19 93:7 ,16 94:1 ,10,18 95:2,8 95:21 96:9 97:8 97:12,20 98:5 ,8 98:11 ,14 99:9,14 99:17 100:3 ,6,10 101:6,12,14,18,21 102:6 103:10,15 106:14 107:1 ,7 ,10 107:20 108:5 ,11 108:22 109:5 ,8,18 110:6,13 111:13 111:18 112:15 ,18 113:6,16,19 114:2 114:10 115:5 116:6,9,14,18,21 117:2,6,14,18 118:2,5 ,20 120:6 120:16 122:2,10 122:20 123:1 ,3 ,6 123:12,19 124:19 125:1 ,10,22 126:17 ,22 127:4 127:14,22 128:9 128:15 ,19 129:5 134:9,22 136:6 137:14 138:5 141:13 142:16 143:9 144:9 145:12 146:2,13 146:17 147:12 148:2,16 153:3 155:1 ,18 157:1 ,18 164:4 165:19 171:11 173:22 174:8 176:15 177:21 178:12 180:3 184:19ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 252 192:16 196:19 197:16 199:22 200:12 202:7 ,18 204:17 206:18 208:2,10,17 209:1 211:2 212:2,13 213:1 ,12 214:5 ,19 215:1 ,7 ,16 218:16 220:13 ,20 221:11 221:13 222:3 223:1 ,15 224:2 225:10 227:12 229:18 230:11 231:9,12,16 232:15 233:19,22 234:6 **range** 41:9 132:5 139:14,17 182:12 **ranges** 136:12 **rashly** 166:18 **rate** 161:2 **rated** 187:2 198:17 198:19 **rating** 161:15 ,21 211:7 **rationale** 175:6 **re-check** 77:7 **re-look** 111:11 **re-thumb** 128:10 **re-vote** 97:18 129:3 **reach** 5:19 20:9 22:1 54:13 65:15 67:14 83:11 88:21 157:20 160:15 ,16 169:11 **reached** 18:18 33:7 38:3 48:9 **reaching** 66:18 **read** 31:2,4 32:5 ,13 39:12 81:3 82:21 114:20 134:6 135:3 ,4 154:5 198:9 200:17 **reader** 82:22 **readily** 8:7 **reading** 31:17 46:20 118:9 198:13 **reads** 84:18 91:7 134:16 **ready** 3:7 30:10 208:21 215:5 **real** 6:16 46:5 60:12 106:2 110:17 127:20 165:5 **realistic** 120:17 **realistically** 128:5 **reality** 192:10 200:20 **realize** 165:22 201:12 **really** 5:17 7:3 10:15 ,17 15:4 25:18 29:6 31:16 42:10 43:2,16 56:19 65:12 68:17 76:13 82:18 89:9 93:18 95:14 106:4 108:17 115:20 118:15 127:5 ,22 128:4 147:10,20 148:13 157:8 158:20 160:5 163:5 ,6 168:14 181:1 182:17 186:9 193:4,11 197:3 203:5 205:17 206:9 217:8 ,19 219:19 228:15 **realm** 217:13 **rearrange** 78:18 79:12 **reason** 39:9,10 71:11 78:15 145:1 148:9 157:7 163:1 164:7 166:10 171:6 185:13 213:7 233:7 **reasonable** 71:13 173:10,15 **reasoning** 156:15 167:21 **reasons** 136:20 162:1 166:13 179:22 184:2,3 193:14 **recall** 211:17 ,18,21 **recaps** 148:22 **received** 140:21 150:22 151:11 211:8 **recess** 56:5 127:3 178:11 224:3 **recognizing** 181:13 **recommend** 62:22 63:7 ,12,14 142:10 227:8 **recommendation** 18:17 ,20 28:15 ,18 48:15 62:22 63:22 113:8 **recommendations** 16:2 107:13 ,14,18 108:4 115:9,9,14 **recommended** 64:22 **record** 50:5 56:12 113:14 234:10,11 **recorded** 37:10 114:17 221:1 **recording** 113:4,16 113:20,21 **recourse** 18:21 **reduced** 76:16 **reducing** 183:5 189:7 **refer** 90:9 110:2 **reference** 190:14 **referring** 88:16 96:5 98:22 110:1 152:4 170:5 **refers** 88:10 96:6 143:21 **reflect** 47:18 81:22 103:6 174:5 **reflected** 179:12,18 **reflection** 12:6 176:13 **reflective** 183:3 **refresher** 129:11 ,17 131:10 **refrigerant** 134:17 **refrigerate** 206:7 **refrigerated** 131:11 131:15 132:12,15 133:6 **refrigeration** 1:2 3:8 7:7 8:19 10:10 12:10,19 13:21 18:7 62:16,21 63:5 130:4,8 131:7 ,11 ,12,17 ,18 131:19,21 132:2,8 132:9,18 133:2,7 139:22 143:15 ,22 144:5 147:3 154:13 156:5 ,11 159:2,11 166:16 167:4 168:3 171:12 213:19 214:7 217:14 223:11 **refrigeration/free ...**  48:22 **refrigerator** 11:19 12:14 131:14,19 131:20 132:10,15 132:16,17 133:6,8 137:3 ,8,18,20,21

137:22 143:18 ,18 144:22,22 145:8 147:9,18 149:17 150:11 151:10,18 151:18 153:14,20 153:21 154:1 ,8,15 154:16,18,19 163:14 167:16,16 168:2 171:13 ,13 171:19 173:10,12 173:16,19 177:6 177:13 ,13 178:22 178:22 179:21 180:20 181:2,6,7 182:8 ,8,16,16,17 186:1 ,11 ,11 188:20 189:18 ,19 190:20 193:17 199:17 200:2 201:1 ,1 ,15 ,15 202:4,5 203:2,3 ,5 204:8 205:4,6 206:1 209:11 ,12 209:21 212:5 ,5 ,8 212:8 213:3 ,10,22 214:8 ,9,15 ,17 ,18 214:18 ,22 216:3 216:11 ,16,22 217:3 ,4,5 218:8 ,9 218:11 219:8 220:2,2,3 223:9 223:10 225:5 226:17 229:8 ,11 229:13 ,14,17 **refrigerator/freez ...**  130:5 **refrigerators** 9:1 ,15 14:1 44:18 46:17 46:22 47:4 52:12 52:17 ,21 53:19 130:5 131:9,22 137:6,13 140:17 147:5 ,17 ,18 149:14,17 150:16 150:19,20 151:10 153:7 154:4,12 155:8 ,9 158:1 160:22 168:1 ,21 169:13 171:19 173:14 175:7 177:6 179:21 186:1 188:19 189:2 192:12 197:7 ,22 199:15 199:16,20,21 204:10 210:18 ,18

213:2,3 ,21 214:3 215:13 ,20 216:2 216:22 219:7 220:4 221:8 225:5 226:17 227:6,9 **reg** 4:22 5:1 39:14 41:5 114:14 **regard** 99:8 180:14 **regarding** 83:12,21 **regardless** 174:10 195:1 **regards** 178:21 179:16 180:5 210:5 **Register** 88:14 129:13 **regs** 9:4 182:12 186:11 193:17 201:1 211:5 219:9 **regular** 163:14 **regulate** 222:12 **regulated** 212:7 **regulates** 174:4 **regulation** 142:3 195:20 219:3 227:14 **regulations** 7:9 19:14 105:11 197:10 207:18 **regulatory** 37:21 105:7 186:18 216:13 219:12 220:1 ,7 ,10 224:17 225:4 226:11 ,22 228:18 **reiterate** 64:2 **relate** 139:10 **relates** 3:13 209:20 **relationship** 130:3 **relatively** 157:22 **released** 134:8 **rely** 158:22 **remain** 184:3 **remaining** 34:14 132:13 **remand** 27:20 **remember** 63:13 77:20 88:18 **remembered** 145:1 **remind** 16:12 40:5 97:15 ,16 155:6 **remote** 76:11 156:3 **remotely** 232:19 **renew** 114:22 **repeat** 52:14 95:8ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 253 108:22 110:14 **repeatability** 148:10 183:6 **repeatable** 148:7 **replace** 21:4 **replicate** 163:2 **report** 10:8 **reporter** 15:9 **represent** 10:13 12:7 24:3 64:4 89:4 162:21 171:9 174:18 175:21 199:8 **representation** 62:5 63:18 88:8,12 **representative** 26:1 44:14 64:10 120:22 162:18 181:19 182:3 183:19,20 185:16 199:6 **representativeness** 162:17 **representatives** 10:7 43:4 **represented** 39:1 46:6,6 66:15 78:11 **representing** 49:19 70:10 74:20 89:5 175:9 **represents** 52:20 53:7 **reps** 86:21 **request** 64:3 120:8 **request-by-request** 122:3 **requests** 120:17 **require** 136:20 142:12 150:5 151:5 184:12 187:18 193:10 205:18 **required** 138:18 186:16 192:13 229:4 **requirement** 70:18 89:3 97:7 190:15 196:1 **requirements** 29:10 88:9,12 141:19 206:15 224:12 **requires** 132:20 192:10 **requiring** 132:2 **reservations** 75:15 158:15

**reservoirs** 150:7 **residential** 138:3 140:16 142:2 156:11 189:18 **resolution** 13:15 19:15 ,18 **resolve** 18:16 **resolved** 74:21 **resource** 158:22 **respects** 109:15 **response** 52:1 53:12 60:3 81:15 82:14 83:18 98:7 99:13 101:17 109:7 112:11 116:13 117:13 123:2 127:13 ,15 128:8 133:17 141:1 220:19 221:14,14 **responsibility** 35:17 36:16 86:14 112:1 112:3 186:18 ,19 **responsible** 12:18 105:5 ,9 121:19 **rest** 82:6 129:9 143:14 145:19 159:18 160:4 **restate** 16:12 35:21 136:9 188:8 **restating** 59:18 **restrooms** 17:7 **resubmit** 73:15 ,16 **result** 202:22 **results** 185:16,17 **reverse** 39:20 106:15 **review** 98:4,13 120:4 121:6 **reviewed** 133:19 **reviewing** 121:16,16 138:7 **reviews** 108:10 112:17 116:20 117:5 128:14 **revision** 213:9 **revisions** 152:20 **revisit** 54:18 80:12 124:20 **reword** 69:13 **Rich** 13:3 ,3 **Richard** 2:21 **Rick** 76:14 79:4 **rid** 186:17 **right** 3:22 5:12,18 7:19 8:9 14:10,16 14:19 16:5 17:4,5

17:14 19:5 22:18 24:14 30:16,16,20 30:21 32:20 34:3 34:9,14,15 35:11 37:5 41:8,12 42:1 42:13 ,15 44:3 ,20 45:7 48:3 ,13 50:14,21 56:14 57:19 58:16 59:21 60:4,14 61:4 65:14,17 66:6 67:3 ,15 68:7 71:10,14,17 73:6 77:22 80:15 81:8 81:16 82:3 ,10,11 84:6,9,9,19 85:11 85:18 86:1 87:2 89:17 ,22 90:5 ,22 91:4,14 93:7 96:9 96:10 97:20 98:2 98:14 99:10,14 100:18 101:2,4,8 101:14,18 103:11 104:2 106:19 107:1 108:6 109:8 109:18 110:7 ,13 110:14,21 111:18 112:8 ,18 113:12 114:10 116:2,3 ,4 116:6,10,14,18 117:2 119:22 122:10 123:3 ,9,12 124:14 125:12 127:4,14,21 129:6 130:2,19 131:3 ,10 135:8 ,13 138:5 139:18 140:3 142:14 143:1 ,3 ,4 143:6 145:12 146:6,17 ,19 147:11 150:2 155:8 157:10,19 158:3 164:1 165:9 167:11 168:22 170:6 172:14 178:12 180:3 182:10 186:2 187:5 188:2 189:1 191:11 ,20 192:12 193:12 195:8 ,18 196:2,7 ,17 198:10 200:21 202:18 204:6,11 209:1 ,2 209:19 210:1 ,16 212:18 214:7 215:1 ,5 ,13 ,22

217:7 220:13 225:20 226:9,10 230:3 232:16 233:17 234:6 **right-hand** 176:22 **road** 27:12 **robustness** 162:3 **Roland** 2:22 8:15 39:7 48:18 49:9 58:18 66:11 91:16 91:17 98:18 **role** 4:12 6:3 **roll** 35:11 **rolling** 71:16 **ROMs** 7:18 **room** 1:7 4:20 6:6 6:10 8:1 23:7 36:4 40:21 44:13 47:14 116:1 162:20 184:9,15 197:12 199:2 205:22 206:2 208:9 229:15 **rooms** 204:9 **Rosenstock** 2:19 13:18 ,18 **roughly** 181:17 **route** 213:17 **rule** 3:5 ,18 6:19 8:13 10:18 12:19 18:14,16 19:1 20:11 ,11 ,15 ,17 ,20 21:21 22:14 23:18 25:16,19 26:9 28:22 29:16 30:2 30:4 63:14 102:14 102:15 ,17 ,18,21 103:2,3 104:1 ,3 ,5 104:9,15 ,22 105:7 105:21 106:5 ,13 106:17 ,19 108:13 108:14,18,19 109:2,3 111:6,7 113:8 ,9 115:3 ,11 115:13 127:8 128:6 139:14 142:9 157:11 189:1 207:8 220:3 226:1 **ruled** 161:6 **rulemaking** 5:2,13 6:1 9:6 10:14 12:4 13:21 17:18 ,21 20:7 21:17 ,18 26:11 28:21 29:12 31:2 43:10 102:5

103:7 ,8,9 104:5 104:17 ,18 110:2,3 137:10 140:16 144:6,18 160:20 161:7 166:16 168:1 ,1 ,3 177:19 202:13 226:5 ,12 227:9,11 228:6 229:14 **rulemakings** 19:21 **rules** 5:8,11 9:9 17:13 25:20 26:15 30:17 ,19 31:1 ,11 32:6,12 39:8 ,13 54:10 69:2 82:6 105:16 106:1 108:3 126:18 ,20 127:6,10 128:17 129:3 182:7 201:6 221:6 226:8 **run** 55:9 160:7 ,8,11 165:15 ,16 170:1 179:22 186:15 ,16 191:5 222:1 **running** 9:20 **S S**  3:1 **safe** 174:14 206:2 **safety** 134:18 136:20 206:9 207:7 **sand** 192:4 **sanity** 109:18 **Sarah** 2:7 30:8 102:13 103:4 104:14 109:20,21 155:17 177:3 ,4 224:4 **satisfied** 166:11 **satisfy** 8:22 132:14 184:15 195:22 **Saturday** 231:21 **save** 8:2 **saves** 11:4 **savings** 29:18 ,19 **saw** 6:12 102:8 190:21 **saying** 33:7 34:2 39:21 40:10 58:12 58:20 60:15 87:6 95:19 98:19 102:22 104:16 112:6 113:13 135:16 137:1ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 254 157:4 160:18 165:1 ,5 ,6,7 179:18 193:9 199:5 215:4 **sayings** 39:21 **says** 80:21 81:7 88:14 102:4,7 136:4 137:12 153:7 155:20 190:16 198:21 222:6 **Schaefer** 2:20 9:11 9:12 49:6 54:3 148:3 ,3 **Schafer** 49:6 54:3 **schedule** 5:11 17:6 122:7 125:3 225:7 225:22 228:20 **schedules** 24:19 219:12,15 226:16 226:21 **scheduling** 225:11 **schematic** 24:1 **scope** 5:22 13:20 14:4 25:20 43:9 43:14,18 44:3 51:19 128:20,21 129:2,22 146:10 178:21 179:3 ,6 181:10 186:2 187:6 190:7 ,12 191:3 192:4,6 193:19 201:2,7 ,13 209:20 216:11 219:21 **scoping** 129:10 **score** 4:16 22:3 23:9 **Scott** 13:6 **scratch** 104:3 **screen** 69:1 91:9 142:22 **search** 111:13 **second** 3:14 9:4 18:2 69:7 88:7 95:10 109:17 139:13 155:20 169:19 206:9 208:5 223:6,14 **Secretary** 29:21 62:22 63:1 ,7 ,8,15 63:19,21 **section** 69:4,15 81:20 88:11 89:19 103:13 114:6,9 167:12 198:15 216:17 **section-by-section**

126:19 **sections** 114:16 **sector** 43:4 78:9 **sectors** 43:11 75:1 **see** 4:13 9:7 11:3 12:2 15:12 22:21 26:15 28:17 30:1 32:1 35:3 36:21 40:12 41:9,13 ,20 44:20 55:14,15 56:3 58:18 60:7 61:3 ,5 ,9 62:4 65:21 66:2,5 ,8 67:11 ,16,20 68:3 68:13 ,14,15 72:14 74:12 77:7 ,8 81:16,20 82:8 83:4 84:6 89:22 91:1 ,14 93:7 97:9 98:8 99:2,6,14 100:11 101:18 106:4 109:8 110:22 111:13 ,21 113:12 116:14,21 117:6 121:4 123:3 123:9 125:2 126:18 ,20,22 128:16 134:6 136:2 138:13 148:7 ,14 149:7 160:9 161:19 169:22 177:22 178:2,4 179:2 180:21 181:5 ,9,15 181:16,20 182:18 188:3 ,6 196:18 198:8 202:7 204:1 204:5 ,13 ,15 206:21 207:14,15 210:5 220:16,21 227:22 233:4 **seeing** 9:18 138:5 189:16 **seen** 67:6 120:11 148:21 165:15 **sees** 180:21 **segment** 39:3 **selected** 71:13 **self-contained** 156:5 **sell** 7:19 12:1 45:19 48:1 ,12,14 50:1 52:17 53:9 187:3 195:17 196:11 **seller** 139:21 **selling** 7:10 51:3 ,5 193:21 196:2,5 ,8 203:2 **sells** 8:11 47:11 57:18 **send** 16:17 70:9 73:2,12 85:7 ,16 85:20 87:15 93:5 103:19 118:1 119:7 121:12,15 128:11 190:13 **sending** 87:7 92:3 117:10,19 118:3 **sends** 119:8 **senior** 12:17 **sense** 23:7 37:1 84:22 93:1 96:14 126:4 143:10,11 156:17 157:5 ,18 193:4 196:17 201:21 228:19 229:1 **sent** 118:21 119:21 **sentence** 84:1 87:21 88:3 89:8,14 95:11 105:3 109:22 117:7 ,16 127:20 **separate** 28:22 63:2 65:13 127:9 154:3 214:17 217:13 218:2 219:14 224:7 ,22 225:3 228:17 **separated** 96:10 128:3 ,3 155:22 **separately** 63:2 128:7 179:3 216:8 226:20 229:4 **separates** 223:9 **separating** 151:6,7 199:14 **separation** 46:3 156:2 **serious** 28:16 49:15 206:13 **serve** 73:10 140:6 **served** 75:5 **Service** 2:4,6 4:10 19:10 **set** 3:5 8:6 24:18 81:11 122:6 142:9 142:10 152:9 173:4 186:8 201:20 220:5 225:21 227:5 228:20 229:13

232:5 **sets** 115:11 **setting** 5:12 10:7 24:14 145:4 226:3 229:16 **settings** 6:2 **seven** 29:11 30:1 123:6,10 **shared** 20:13 **she'd** 56:10 **sheet** 18:11 ,12,13 25:18 29:14 83:21 91:11 98:16 100:4 105:5 ,9 114:15 ,16 114:18 ,19,21 115:2,18,22 **sheets** 29:15 **short** 56:5 122:14 129:8 ,15 178:11 224:3 **shortly** 26:4 122:9 **should've** 106:7 **show** 5:3 36:21 41:10,13 ,20 44:11 44:21 55:14,15 60:6 61:9 65:21 66:2,8 67:16,16 67:21 ,22 68:3 72:14 74:12 77:8 83:4 84:6 89:22 91:1 ,12,15 93:8 97:9 98:8 99:14 100:11 101:18 109:8 111:16 116:15 ,21 119:11 123:3 ,9 126:18 ,20 128:16 220:21 **shows** 149:5 **sic** 117:22 189:8 **side** 11:14 12:22 13:8 14:6 15:11 15:14 16:19 91:18 204:18 214:11 215:14,14 **side-sliding** 204:5 207:10 **sideways** 34:19,21 35:13 56:13 ,22 57:2 65:19 68:13 76:6 113:21 **signal** 14:19,20 **signals** 22:21 **significantly** 80:8 **signs** 125:17 ,18 **silence** 157:8 **similar** 8:20 51:11 126:11 130:18 143:18 151:9 152:9 195:21 199:17 210:13 **simple** 184:11 **simply** 63:6 **simulate** 164:16 181:22 197:12 199:2 **simulates** 197:15 200:18 **simultaneously** 148:13 **single** 149:8 ,14 153:7 172:16 **sit** 15:19 **sitting** 61:16 **situation** 61:9 71:15 92:17 122:3 160:14,19 194:17 204:21 211:14 **situations** 93:5 166:8 **six** 3:21 117:3 122:11 123:4 **size** 38:9 39:16 54:18 150:15 **sizes** 149:10 **skills** 19:12 **slice** 217:9 **slide** 17:21 ,22 19:7 20:4 21:2,9 22:5 22:15 23:10,21 24:12,21 25:9 26:7 ,19 33:15 34:4 134:14 137:12 139:10 149:4,5 ,12 150:4 153:5 154:10 155:20 222:5 **slides** 32:21 134:12 146:12 **slight** 198:7 **slightly** 26:13 **small** 19:8 25:1 53:20 148:11 189:12 **smaller** 25:1 ,4 41:5 75:18 **smiling** 196:18 **SNOPR** 105:13 **soft** 206:5 **sold** 196:14 **solid** 130:20 152:5 **Solutions** 2:11ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 255 **solve** 37:16 62:3 174:6 **solved** 174:7 **somebody** 4:5 23:1 36:10 58:10,20 59:7 80:14 90:16 90:19 94:21 98:20 121:16 179:15 **someone's** 70:21 **somewhat** 40:11 109:12 160:20 212:16 **soon** 16:20 117:11 117:21 120:10 121:12 128:12 195:4 **sooner** 79:15 **sorry** 3:10 52:14 77:11 78:6 80:18 83:5 91:16,22 93:9 100:12 109:1 126:2 127:18 137:14 199:20 203:12 207:14 214:13 216:1 221:5 230:9 231:1 **sort** 4:13 41:1 63:10 64:8 70:22 71:17 129:17 139:19 196:16 204:14 223:9 228:2 **sorts** 166:7 **sought** 159:10 **sound** 38:15 119:15 **sounded** 119:16 **sounds** 33:22 44:7 101:4 108:15 158:3 173:8 177:17 194:3 ,6,7 202:20 204:14 205:9 224:1 **source** 132:2,18 133:2 **Southern** 10:21 **spaced** 35:19 **spark** 111:20 **speak** 15:8,12 16:12 40:5 ,7 53:5 61:17 **speaking** 50:19 181:18 219:7 **special** 66:14 93:12 93:21 ,21 94:5 ,9 94:11 148:15 **specific** 86:10 108:18 151:14 189:15 222:14 **specifically** 64:21

96:2,5 149:2,20 152:4 194:15 198:21 213:2 222:5 ,7 **specificity** 165:10 **speculation** 106:7 ,7 106:10,22 **speculative** 105:1 **speech** 113:13 **spend** 129:18 **sphere** 41:1 174:4 216:13 **split** 151:12 152:22 153:2 155:11 **splits** 151:9 **spoke** 154:11 **spot** 155:5 158:20 228:14 **staff** 6:9 105:4 **stage** 24:14 **stake** 10:1 21:21 **stakeholder** 139:13 139:18 ,20 140:10 **stakeholders** 20:9,9 24:2 53:21 109:12 134:7 138:17 140:4 151:1 ,4,19 152:1 **stalemated** 67:9 **stance** 64:14 **stand** 66:2 218:4 **standard** 6:2 9:19 11:3 18:6 30:22 55:6,9,11 63:17 65:3 ,6 102:2,3 107:15 109:16 111:7 ,10 139:6 140:11 142:9,10 148:8 150:15 ,17 151:8 156:19 168:8 176:19 186:12 202:15 ,16 204:21 205:4,9 227:15 **standard/compact** 155:22 **standardized** 161:14 **standards** 2:16 8:6 10:22 11:6,7 ,10 11:14,17 12:2,15 17:17 ,20 63:7 ,12 81:12 83:13 ,22 102:17 ,22 107:3 107:18 108:16,19 109:2,14 114:8

127:9 128:6 138:19 139:3 140:18 141:21 145:4 186:7 ,8 201:4,20 202:2 209:2,16 213:10 214:2,3 216:21 217:10 218:8 ,9,11 218:21 220:4 226:4,16 227:6,19 228:22 229:8 ,8,11 229:13 ,17 **standpoint** 201:18 225:3 **star** 73:18 **start** 3:7 6:13 9:19 13:10 31:4 32:18 34:9 41:22 44:1 69:3 82:16 129:2 133:15 135:17 157:13 ,15 158:6 166:12 189:6 230:14 232:19 **started** 130:1 133:16 162:6 **starting** 38:7 95:6 95:11 111:19 230:17 **state** 35:18 112:4 130:20 211:5 **stated** 43:16 69:12 78:15 86:7 140:6 182:7 201:5 **statement** 6:20 103:13 144:3 198:16 200:18 211:4 **statements** 6:18 193:16 **states** 197:11 **statewide** 10:22 **stating** 39:22 **statute** 145:8 224:10,19 **statutory** 145:4 177:8 220:11 227:1 **stay** 230:21 **stead** 73:10 **steamroll** 111:20 **steamroller** 111:20 **Stem** 14:5 ,5 **step** 214:6 **Stephen** 2:20 9:12 49:6 54:3 145:13 146:20 147:13

148:2 **stepping** 178:8 **Steve** 13:18 148:3 **Steven** 2:19 **sticks** 67:14 **stipulate** 54:10 **stop** 67:1 ,4 146:9 **stops** 148:9 **storage** 12:12 130:15 ,15 131:3 138:19 149:22,22 150:8 ,10 174:14 177:14 182:4,10 183:2 210:3 ,9 **store** 131:1 144:13 181:14 **storing** 133:12,12 **straight** 65:6 105:18 ,21 **straw** 77:22 **strengthen** 68:15 **strike** 104:12 117:7 **strikes** 118:9 **striking** 94:10 **strong** 11:9 227:3 **stronger** 35:7 ,9 **struck** 102:8 **structure** 79:2 80:8 82:7 131:16 178:5 187:5 **study** 90:20 **stuff** 15:3 104:10 108:8 114:9 119:14 233:15 **style** 110:8 **sub-compartment** 160:9 **Sub-Zero** 2:21 12:8 12:9 27:16 50:3 53:8 79:5 93:10 109:10 145:14 158:5 165:20 191:14 212:3 215:8 **subcategories** 130:9 **subcommittee** 11:16 99:3 ,4,5 **subgroup** 98:17 99:11 **subgroups** 98:20 99:1 **subject** 214:2 229:12 **subjected** 201:3 **submitted** 87:9 **subsequent** 24:15 63:9 175:19 217:16 **subset** 217:2 **substance** 110:8 ,12 **substitute** 88:5 92:13 ,14 **substitutive** 110:7 **Subway** 125:12 **success** 20:1 **successful** 27:19 **sudden** 183:21 **sufficient** 8:7 195:13 **sufficiently** 140:7 **suggest** 25:3 73:14 79:10 135:17 177:21 **suggested** 60:17 113:11 175:5 **suggesting** 39:12 166:1 200:1 **suggestion** 44:5 46:1 59:16 124:19 197:19 198:3 223:16 **suggestions** 151:6 **summaries** 117:7 117:17 118:7 ,14 122:22 **summarize** 179:15 180:4 **summarized** 13:4 181:9 182:1 **summary** 122:14 **summer** 4:1 20:3 **Sunday** 100:8 **super** 38:7 69:18 74:3 80:4,10 127:20 **supplemental** 102:5 102:7 ,8,12,12,14 102:16 103:3 ,8 104:17 105:6 106:17 108:14,19 109:3 110:3 111:6 119:20 **supply** 150:6,7 **support** 12:22 22:3 33:12,14 34:12 112:12 127:17 **supporting** 105:7 105:11 **supposed** 60:5 119:6 **suppressions** 8:18ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

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**sure** 9:21 ,22 14:20 15:7 ,9 23:3 ,8,12 26:5 29:11 31:11 33:3 ,17 40:20 41:2 46:17 51:3 54:16 56:12 57:13 60:20 65:19 69:9 72:5 74:19 76:3 79:19 82:20 83:13 87:11 93:21 97:20 108:9 110:9 114:3 114:11 115:4 116:10 119:17 122:7 ,14 128:11 134:13 138:15 153:19 155:13 156:21 158:19 160:5 170:20 171:5 190:8 193:2 194:4,5 198:20 202:20 208:21 211:11 213:10 229:4 **surge** 8:18 **surrounding** 211:13 **sustain** 136:13 148:12 **SW** 1:8 **switch** 42:13 **system** 15:12 217:3 **systems** 11:13 221:21 226:18 228:10,11 ,12 **T table**  15:13 ,16 35:15 40:6 47:17 48:7 53:5 ,6 61:16 62:5 63:19 67:8 188:4 203:16 227:18 ,21 **take** 14:17 ,21 15:3 16:9 17:1 28:15 31:13 ,15 ,16,17 35:4,9 36:5 40:3 65:7 80:5 84:10 84:15 91:11 96:15 97:13 110:19 113:12 116:19 117:2,16 118:8 ,11 123:21 125:5 128:9 129:3 139:10 142:21 143:3 158:9 178:1 183:10 207:13 209:18 219:5 220:15 223:20

**taken** 42:4 56:5 66:4,10 68:2,6 72:12,21 74:15 81:18 84:8 90:1 91:3 97:11 98:10 99:16 101:20 111:17 116:17 117:1 122:16,18 123:5 ,11 127:3 128:18 178:11 217:18 224:3 **takes** 31:19 54:1 119:13 **talk** 5:9 23:1 26:22 33:21 37:19 58:15 61:13 69:15 78:10 78:20 111:10 155:12 157:16 159:8 167:11 198:3 ,4 203:18 212:5 217:19 **talked** 29:6 32:7 77:13 **talking** 29:7 31:18 37:7 39:9 45:11 59:11 62:14 83:9 88:1 ,2 93:12 107:5 110:7 115:20 123:7 ,18 153:5 157:9,14 167:10,14,15 173:9,22 188:5 197:21 ,22 209:9 209:14 212:6 213:1 214:20 222:7 ,11 ,14,15 ,18 228:1 ,15 233:15 **talks** 77:12 88:11 **target** 185:1 ,4 **task** 18:18 **tasked** 18:5 ,22 **tasks** 44:2 **team** 10:22,22 133:19 134:4 **technical** 11:12,16 11:17 24:2 48:13 126:8 134:3 ,4 146:8 156:22 228:7 **Technically** 34:22 **technologies** 65:8 221:19 **technology** 64:15 65:13 ,20 147:20 174:11 224:8 ,19 **tee** 145:21

**telegram** 96:8 **telephone** 94:9 95:13 96:8,21 **tell** 24:10 27:14 28:11 35:2 36:10 76:5 138:12 142:13 170:18 210:19 219:4 **telling** 163:7 **tells** 134:20 **temperature** 36:20 41:16,22 55:16 111:1 136:12 137:7 139:18 141:7 142:21 143:3 ,6 158:13 160:10,15 161:4 161:14,15 162:5 162:18 163:2 164:15 ,22 165:8 168:12 169:4 171:2 172:7 174:18 176:3 179:20 183:12 185:4 187:17 190:14 195:5 ,11 196:1 200:3 ,8 201:5 208:8 ,8,9 208:12 209:5 210:21 211:6 212:14,15 220:15 220:21 223:5 **temperatures** 132:4 132:22 136:15 141:9 150:9 159:1 161:12 162:9 163:21 164:14 165:10 167:19 169:19,21 170:8 170:11 172:21 173:2 174:14 175:3 182:12 185:2,15 188:17 189:3 190:17 ,20 191:8 194:8 196:7 196:15 198:11 210:4,16 214:1 221:9 **tent** 15:13 ,16 **tentative** 225:13 **tents** 40:6 **term** 18:11 ,12,13 25:18 29:14,15 46:17 83:21 100:4 105:5 ,9 114:15 ,16 114:18 ,19,21

115:1 ,18,22 160:21 166:21 206:12 208:19 **termed** 223:11 **terms** 14:3 19:17 21:11 45:3 115:7 130:18 134:7 158:22 159:2 172:15 191:21 201:2 **test** 6:2 10:18 11:21 11:22,22 14:6 18:5 ,22 81:12 83:9,14,15 ,22 84:3 102:3 ,6,10 102:15 ,22 104:7 104:10,11 ,15 ,21 105:20 106:2,13 107:4,6,8,9,14,19 108:17 ,19 109:3 109:14,16 111:6,9 114:8 127:7 128:5 137:3 143:20 146:9,11 147:6,10 148:8 ,14 149:1 159:11 ,11 ,13 ,17 159:20 160:4,5 ,8 160:8 ,12,12,17 161:10 162:1 ,9,14 163:3 ,8 164:10,10 164:11 ,12,16,18 164:20 165:15 ,16 165:17 166:1 ,3 ,3 166:9,12,17 167:3 167:12 168:11 ,17 169:10,21 170:1 ,4 174:13 175:2,9,14 176:2,8,12,18 179:3 ,4,5 ,7 ,12,20 180:8 ,9,11 ,12,13 180:13 181:21 182:20,20 183:5 184:5 ,6,13 ,17 185:9,16,17 186:2 186:4,5 ,12,16,16 187:7 ,8 189:13 ,16 190:4,15 191:4,5 191:19,22 192:20 192:21 ,22 193:2,8 193:9,10,14 195:7 195:10,11 ,12,19 195:21 197:12 199:1 ,1 201:3 207:3 210:15 211:9,20 213:9 216:21 221:22

**tested** 160:22 167:13 174:11 185:19 189:22 192:11 ,11 ,11 ,12 210:13 **testing** 159:19 161:4 162:19 165:14 166:5 ,20 167:5 172:22 175:16 176:11 180:16 181:4 185:13 190:6,14 196:22 197:3 ,13 198:12 199:4 **tests** 164:14 169:18 169:18 170:2 192:13 203:4 **Texas** 9:5 **thank** 3:15 4:1 7:3 9:10 10:2 11:4 14:4 17:14 28:4,8 30:15 74:11 78:3 79:14 82:2,3 84:6 86:20 117:18 122:22 127:1 181:8 234:12 **Thanks** 8:14 46:8 48:17 78:4 **That'd** 93:2 **theoretically** 221:20 226:10 **thermal** 41:3 46:4 **thermo** 46:8 ,15 47:6 47:15 48:6 52:10 52:18 53:20 55:5 61:15 62:6,18,19 62:20 63:1 ,4,11 63:13 ,17 65:5 130:21 142:7 ,8 149:9 151:6 173:1 175:2 185:18 186:22 190:22 218:10 222:12,18 **thermoelectric** 7:15 **thermostat** 184:11 **they'd** 160:8 203:8 **thing** 5:8 14:15 54:22 56:17 57:4 58:15 63:13 67:3 78:17 79:10 84:12 103:11 109:15 120:6 127:4 128:20 147:3 152:19 162:8 165:22 172:7ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 257 178:3 179:8 186:21 190:9 205:15 206:17 207:16 218:18 230:2,12 **things** 8:20 9:8 12:3 13:1 14:6,14 19:14 20:6 26:17 36:18 38:6,12 62:13 65:15 76:2 88:21 92:3 113:3 122:1 ,15 136:17 144:13 147:8 159:5 164:13 166:19 167:11 177:17 180:17 181:10,14,22 182:4 183:5 207:6 208:1 228:21 231:19 **think** 3:21 6:12 7:22 8:3 14:9 18:9 22:4 23:13 26:1 ,1 27:2 28:14,20 29:2,4,5 32:22 35:22 38:14 38:19 40:5 ,9,12 40:19 41:10 42:8 43:2,10,13 ,15 ,16 44:9 48:11 53:4,6 54:2,10 55:22 56:1 ,17 57:9 58:16,22 59:15 ,16 60:16 61:3 ,6,14 66:20 68:8 69:4 69:14 70:14 71:6 71:19 72:10 75:4 75:6 76:12 80:6 82:18 83:19 84:21 85:9,13 86:6,16 86:22 87:21 88:22 89:7 92:19 95:5 96:18 97:2 98:19 99:1 101:1 104:6 104:8 ,9,22 105:8 105:15 106:3 ,18 107:4,9,22 108:5 108:13 110:12,18 114:5 ,20 115:17 120:9 121:5 125:6 125:14 126:6,15 129:15 ,20 130:10 135:2,3 ,9,15 137:2 138:10 139:7 143:8 ,9 144:15 145:10,11 145:18 146:5 ,14 146:15 147:17 ,21

147:22 155:7 157:11 158:8 ,9 162:13 163:15 ,18 165:21 166:18 167:5 168:13 ,13 168:20 170:14 172:13 ,22 173:3 174:10 175:1 ,4 176:7 ,9,12 178:13 178:18 179:2,9,12 179:18 180:15 181:9,11 ,18 182:5 182:19,21 183:17 184:4,22 185:9,21 187:16,20 189:14 191:2,22 193:11 193:14 194:10,13 194:14 195:8 ,10 196:13 ,15 197:19 198:1 199:11 200:20 201:10,16 201:22 202:10,21 203:16,18 204:18 204:22 205:2,11 205:16 206:12,12 206:16 207:5 ,10 207:16,20 208:13 208:16 210:22 213:1 214:5 215:3 216:7 218:6,12,22 221:13 223:7 224:11 ,14,16 225:8 ,8 226:14,19 227:2,16,17 ,18 228:7 ,8,14,15 229:2,18,19 230:9 230:12 231:17 **thinking** 20:18 22:19 41:4 55:2 59:16 70:1 208:4 220:18 **third** 55:10 58:18 63:10 89:14 117:7 165:14 180:10 189:21 190:2 **third-party** 184:13 190:10,12,13 ,18 **Thirty-nine** 134:15 **thorough** 129:20 **thought** 32:16 51:9 80:8 145:1 167:6 185:15 192:4 208:17 213:17 **thoughts** 39:5 40:2 42:20 **three** 4:6,6 9:20

19:5 26:17 34:12 39:9,17 ,22 40:11 43:8 49:5 58:8 75:3 76:17 80:11 84:13 ,16,20 87:3 89:18 ,20,21 91:5 91:15 93:8 97:13 100:1 112:10 117:3 120:12 127:15 ,17 131:7 143:17 ,17 144:7 148:12 231:19,20 233:5 234:7 **threshold** 137:4 139:21 145:3 ,4 **threw** 38:6 233:1 **throw** 16:1 ,4 99:9 230:7 **throwing** 74:2 80:9 **thumb** 34:1 35:16 35:17 ,18 36:7 ,8 36:14,15 42:13 ,15 56:22 76:5 112:4 112:8 114:2 **thumb's** 77:5 **thumbs** 34:17 ,18,20 36:22 41:10,13 ,21 55:16 60:6 61:5 ,9 61:10 65:21 66:2 66:5 ,8 67:16,17 67:21 68:1 ,4,13 74:12 77:8 81:17 83:5 84:7 89:22 91:1 ,12 93:8 97:9 98:8 99:15 100:11 101:19 109:9 111:16,21 116:15 116:21 123:4,9 126:18 ,20 128:16 220:22 **tied** 164:2 **tight** 120:11 121:20 **Tim** 7:21 9:7 40:16 40:18 70:16 71:5 89:6 94:1 ,2 105:2 114:12 117:15 145:12 146:20 147:12 172:4 173:7 196:18 202:18 204:17 206:21 216:9 218:18 229:6 **Tim's** 85:10 203:17 217:1 224:15 **time** 3:16 4:6 6:8 15:1 ,18 17:6 18:8 19:22 24:19 31:5 35:12,22 36:1 47:15 55:22 61:19 67:2 72:7 73:21 75:4 81:1 90:15 92:21 97:22 109:13 110:19 118:8 ,11 120:5 121:3 ,14,14 122:8 123:9 124:11 125:22 129:18 ,18 166:11 ,13 167:1 ,5 192:1 215:17 216:19 220:5 229:19 **timeframe** 18:19 121:20 **timeline** 117:10 **timelines** 120:11 **timer** 6:22 **times** 36:2 37:3 200:11 **timetable** 5:21 **Timothy** 2:10 **title** 103:12 **today** 3:6 4:2 25:11 51:14 64:17 69:17 73:16 77:22 125:2 129:9 145:11 ,19 145:20 169:5 190:3 192:5 197:2 212:7 ,10,11 222:8 222:20 226:18 **today's** 118:14 **told** 184:7 **tomorrow** 72:2,3 125:2 145:20 169:7 225:14 230:2 **tonight** 230:12 **top** 211:11 **topic** 25:2 **topics** 24:11 **Topping** 2:21 12:5 ,6 27:16,16 50:3 ,3 53:8,8 61:12 62:4 76:15 77:11 ,16 78:1 ,4 79:5 ,5 ,14 80:18 83:3 93:10 93:10,17 ,20 100:22 109:10,10 110:10 115:6,19 116:4 145:14,14 158:5 ,5 ,19 165:20 165:20 191:14,14 192:9 212:3 ,3 ,11

212:19,22 215:8 233:21 **total** 3:21 29:18 74:8 152:6 **totally** 57:1 86:8 144:13 158:14 173:21 222:19 **touch** 27:10 206:20 **touchy** 211:14 **track** 15:15 40:6 **tracks** 127:7 **trade** 120:21 231:14 **traditional** 55:10 130:5 **Traditionally** 64:14 **transcript** 16:14,15 117:22,22 118:10 **transcripts** 117:11 117:20 118:4 **transient** 8:17 **translate** 182:14 **translated** 20:22 **translates** 175:13 **translating** 105:5 ,9 **transmit** 24:5 **Traulsen** 2:14 9:4 49:1 51:18 55:19 75:11 105:19 112:22 146:21 206:19 **travel** 70:4 **treat** 170:1 199:19 199:19 **treated** 218:19 **tried** 232:2 **trigger** 225:18 **triggered** 225:6 **trouble** 92:15 **troubled** 205:21 **Troy** 12:21 13:4 46:18 133:19 140:21 146:7 148:18 153:9 155:2 161:9 171:6 171:7 172:18 185:7 187:15 215:17 **true** 2:15 4:8 10:3 ,9 43:1 49:13 58:1 64:11 79:22 134:15 139:1 141:14 **truly** 95:17 **trust** 67:18 **try** 4:18 5:16 15:14ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 258 15:15 17:5 21:22 22:8 28:8 32:21 47:16 60:8,10 61:8 66:6 68:14 68:15 78:21 79:1 79:12,18 88:21 121:13 122:7 127:22 163:2 174:13 177:22 178:5 223:21 229:20 230:4 231:16 **trying** 3:10 8:21 29:7 37:17 40:1 54:5 68:17 76:19 81:9 98:1 119:10 121:19 125:14 135:2,2,16 143:2 148:10 157:2 168:20 173:11 176:16,21 179:13 181:22 183:22 189:15 ,17 190:9 191:3 ,9 192:19 193:14 196:11 207:2 209:3 214:8 222:12 **TST** 129:14 **turn** 15:8,11 55:5 58:3 **turnaround** 120:9 121:3 **turns** 200:9 **tweak** 35:8 82:8 **twelve** 75:10 **twice** 65:22 182:20 184:6 **two** 3:20 4:18 12:13 19:2 26:17 31:13 31:16,19 34:8,13 34:17 ,19 36:18 39:9 40:12,14,15 41:6,10,13 ,21 42:2,17 43:8 55:17 ,18 56:10,13 56:15 58:2,3 ,5 ,9 58:17 ,21 ,22 59:4 59:6,16,19 60:7 60:15 61:9,10 63:11 65:8,22 67:9,17 68:4,4,10 69:11 ,11 ,13 84:2 84:10 87:4 90:4,5 91:2,5 ,16 94:20 101:22 107:5 108:9 109:6,9 111:16 120:12

125:8 126:12 127:6 128:2 145:5 163:19,21 167:10 167:20 170:1 ,4 179:13 181:10 207:8 213:21 230:5 233:4 **two-thirds** 38:8,10 38:15 **twofold** 178:20 **type** 7:15 20:20 26:17 48:22 66:17 67:6 124:7 131:2 139:15 143:16 144:1 151:13 152:3 ,4 160:6 162:15 177:1 216:5 ,5 220:16 229:21 **types** 29:13 107:5 130:9 131:8 141:22 145:5 154:8 171:17 209:19 **typical** 171:9 173:2 173:4 197:12,15 200:9 **typically** 30:3 31:8 31:12 41:5 119:2 172:22 186:3 220:9 **U U-Line**  2:22 8:16 9:1 39:7 48:19 49:10 91:17 98:18 **U.S** 1:1 ,6 11:17 159:15 **UL** 138:19 141:21 191:12 **ULCSA** 8:22 **ultimate** 53:15 65:17 209:2 **ultimately** 61:4 115:11 172:13 186:7 ,18 187:6 203:8 ,12,19 226:7 **umbrella** 13:22 14:2 **unable** 189:2 **unanimous** 26:12 37:20,22 67:15 68:9,17 **uncertainty** 224:18 **uncomfortable** 61:21

**uncooled** 149:22 150:8 **under-counter** 9:1 48:21 **understand** 9:9 20:21 22:2 23:3 ,6 24:6 33:1 36:10 43:11 ,21 44:8 56:18 57:2 67:13 68:12 78:20 93:20 95:17 100:19 110:18 118:8 ,18 120:19 153:19 156:2 175:6 184:14 186:21 193:15 195:3 ,19 198:4 207:5 209:9 213:15 **understanding** 33:2 33:4 43:17 ,22 107:12 111:14 115:4,8 121:5 137:4 164:4 202:8 214:10 215:6 **understood** 40:9 **unethical** 32:9 **unique** 147:21 152:14 160:4 204:20 **unit** 132:20 133:3 180:21 **units** 7:16,20 48:22 65:11 149:10 192:11 **unnecessary** 160:13 **unsure** 214:3 223:12 **up/down** 143:6 **usage** 140:12 163:16,20,22 172:15 **use** 21:22 29:12 31:1 77:5 138:19 140:13 142:14 150:7 161:22 163:3 175:9 181:11 182:10 183:1 ,1 ,19,20 185:17 196:17 201:8 210:7 211:7 216:5 219:16 **users** 167:1 **usually** 31:19 37:20 119:5 ,7 ,13 122:2 233:14 **utility** 29:19 152:14

156:20 **V vague**  108:14 **valid** 33:17 99:5 170:13 **value** 98:22 122:13 166:22 **vapor** 46:4 47:5 48:15 49:14,20 50:1 ,4,9 65:5 149:9 175:2 199:20 211:8 221:21 222:8 ,16 **variability** 163:4 **variable** 172:16 **variances** 106:3 **variety** 179:22 181:16 182:4 **various** 19:17 **verbally** 76:5 **verbiage** 128:1 **verified** 192:15 **versus** 46:4,16 47:9 51:2 197:21 204:18 208:9,11 209:5 219:16 **veto** 37:15 **vetted** 115:10 **vetting** 166:5 **viable** 231:5 ,6 **Vic** 61:11 **view** 53:22 156:15 163:6,9 168:15 183:18 184:2 **views** 59:1 **violation** 203:7 **voltage** 8:18 **volume** 132:12 140:14 151:8 152:6 **volunteering** 23:16 **vote** 18:3 31:10 37:9 37:9 41:15 42:4,5 42:10 54:11 55:16 55:17 56:21 ,22 57:11 ,20 58:10 59:19 60:13 65:19 66:4,7 ,10,13 ,17 67:3 ,21 68:2,6 72:12,21 73:5 74:15 76:3 ,4,19 76:22 77:7 78:9 78:10,14 79:7 81:18 84:8 85:17 86:14 90:1 91:3

93:4,6,14,16 94:22 97:11 ,17 98:10 99:16 101:20 106:5 ,13 111:17 113:4,15 113:15 114:16,19 114:21 116:17 117:1 123:5 ,11 128:18 143:2 207:14 212:15 ,15 215:5 **voted** 18:4 58:17 69:4 86:5 ,7 ,9,13 123:16 **votes** 33:5 ,6 40:13 40:15 41:7 56:11 58:3 ,3 ,5 ,8,9 59:4 59:6,17 ,20 60:15 61:10 66:1 68:4,4 68:10 69:11 72:13 78:13 82:16 111:1 111:1 113:17 114:16 122:16 **voting** 59:7 60:18 70:10 72:18 74:19 75:22 76:16 77:12 93:12,13 ,21 94:5 94:6,8,9,9,21 95:13 96:6,6,11 96:11 ,16,18,20 208:5 ,7 ,7 ,11 **W W**  2:5 **Wade** 13:16 **wait** 55:20 **waiting** 220:16 233:8 **waiver** 186:17 207:19,20,21 210:20,20 211:5 211:17 **waivers** 211:8 **walk** 82:5 125:19 **walking** 112:6 **want** 6:19 8:2 9:22 10:14,17 11:3 14:13 15:12 17:10 25:2 26:5 29:9,10 33:17 ,18 36:2,5 40:12 42:15 44:7 51:3 57:5 58:14 59:13 65:7 ,18 67:3 ,11 69:12,14 70:8,20 71:14ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 259 74:19 75:20 80:17 82:15 ,20 84:11 85:3 ,14 90:7 92:9 94:21 97:1 98:15 99:7 104:9,22 108:17 110:8 111:6 112:1 ,6 113:19 115:3 ,22 118:6 123:15 128:9 129:3 146:18 147:7 177:21 178:1 193:1 ,1 ,13 194:9 195:8 199:18 200:6,7 ,12 203:1 203:19 209:9 213:10,14 214:14 219:20 225:8 226:20 231:16 **wanted** 40:5 56:10 56:12 57:13 59:3 66:15 71:11 78:1 87:11 90:16 95:14 110:15 116:9 119:17 127:5 177:2,8 196:12 206:20 207:8 218:15 230:7 **wanting** 213:7 **wants** 40:7 60:22 81:4 **warm** 159:22 **warmest** 164:17 **Washington** 1:9 **wasn't** 35:19,20 93:21 127:6 **water** 58:9 130:22 140:14 150:6,7 ,8 **Watson** 12:21 ,21 47:5 52:4 111:4 134:1 148:18 ,18 149:5 ,13 150:5 153:9,9,19 154:2 154:10,20 161:8 ,9 171:7 ,7 ,15 172:9 172:18 ,18 185:7 ,7 187:15 ,15 **way** 15:9,21 17:7 35:6 36:22 37:5 40:6 43:21 61:7 65:12 68:19 73:16 82:7 90:11 92:19 107:21 109:19 111:5 112:7 114:14 125:15 126:3 127:9 136:2 141:4 142:18

152:18 155:6,15 157:10 173:11 ,13 173:16 174:7 ,12 174:20 177:9 186:3 199:19 202:6 209:19 210:22 211:15 218:22 219:1 ,11 226:15 229:16 **Wayne** 31:5 **ways** 9:8 21:15 34:8 62:18 63:20 **we'll** 3:21 4:11 ,21 5:5 ,22 6:3 ,8 14:16 14:20,21 15:6,14 15:15 ,22 16:3 17:5 23:3 24:15 25:4 26:4,10,14 27:10,11 29:6 30:3 ,17 31:10,14 31:17 ,21 32:3 37:8 42:1 46:11 46:12 56:2,3 57:10 60:10 61:10 65:22 67:17 68:12 68:13 70:13 73:18 79:12 84:11 85:16 86:10 87:17 89:17 89:18 97:13 99:9 104:20 111:13 ,14 114:10 119:3 121:11 ,15 122:4,7 122:8 123:8 126:9 126:21 128:11 129:2 146:19 167:11 178:4,4 225:14 234:7 **we're** 3:10 4:9,15 ,17 4:19 5:9,12,16 7:17 ,18 9:18 11:9 13:4,19 15:2,22 16:3 19:19 20:22 21:10,16,18,22 22:7 ,8,16,17 ,20 23:13 24:4,10,20 25:11 26:21 27:1 30:10 31:2 32:12 32:14 33:16,20 37:15 ,17 38:12 41:1 47:8,14 49:3 49:19 51:19 56:19 57:20 58:12,15 ,17 58:18 60:7 61:10 62:14 64:16 67:21 67:22 68:4,10,11 70:1 71:21 75:17

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126:12 129:13 147:3 164:13 ,21 178:14 179:17 193:15 194:14,15 210:8 219:21 233:2,4 **weak** 35:2 **weaker** 205:9 **weather** 70:4 94:19 **webinar** 70:3 93:4 93:13 ,14,16 94:8 96:2,21 **webinars** 24:17 **website** 27:4 **Wednesday** 231:21 **Wednesday/Thur ...**  232:11 **week** 72:12,15 87:14 120:3 ,9 124:4,15 ,18 232:3 **weekend** 124:17 231:22 **weigh** 6:8 29:22 **weigh-in** 106:1 **Welcome** 3:3 **went** 6:12 25:21 126:19 146:11 **weren't** 5:14 173:1 185:16 189:15 **wheats** 164:13 **Whirlpool** 2:18 7:7 8:10,11 45:21 48:10,15 53:17 74:5 103:21 122:12 188:7 197:18 199:10 203:21 204:12 214:12 223:3 **white** 47:13 **whiteboard** 46:1 53:18 **who've** 178:8 **wine** 7:10,15 8:12 12:12 46:15 50:8 65:3 136:16 139:17 177:15 **Wisconsin** 12:9 **withdraw** 18:8 **withdrawn** 18:10 **wondered** 155:4 **wondering** 52:20 74:6 79:6 85:2 170:2 **word** 51:20 69:12 80:11 86:4 95:6 95:11 103:8

109:15 176:18 **wording** 137:19 208:3 **words** 24:5 55:18 88:8 104:1 174:12 179:6 214:14,16 215:4 **work** 3:17 5:10 11:7 13:8 16:7 18:5 19:17 20:1 ,10,22 22:8 23:17 ,18 24:4 30:2 33:20 60:9 76:16 92:20 113:14 119:12 131:1 146:2 147:6 231:10 **worked** 5:6 8:17 90:11 114:14 **working** 1:3 3:8,13 8:20,21 18:3 ,4,9 18:10,15 24:11 25:1 ,4 26:13 28:2 29:14 32:5 ,14 39:8 69:5 ,9 80:22 82:12,13 83:10,20 84:16,18 85:22 86:2 88:4,5 ,15 89:8 90:7 ,9,21 91:7 94:15 98:4 98:13 101:6,7 ,9 101:10 108:2,3 ,10 112:17 116:20 117:5 ,8 119:4 128:14 154:22 **works** 15:13 60:20 146:4 226:9 **world** 12:1 135:10 135:11 159:2,18 160:4 **worried** 195:20,21 196:4 **worry** 79:20 196:9 **Worth** 9:5 **would've** 205:7 **wouldn't** 5:13 78:13 99:2,6 104:19 127:20 150:5 154:21 168:16 196:8 206:15 219:17 221:22 225:6,18 227:5 **wrap** 6:3 219:2 **write** 200:13 **writes** 113:8 **written** 82:17ASRAC Miscellaneous Refrigeration Working Group Meeting May 4, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 260 100:20 101:4 111:9 **wrong** 21:20 176:15 **X Y**  **year** 8:18 9:20 **years** 7:7 8:17 9:13 9:20 10:10 11:13 158:21 159:4,9 166:4 180:2 **Young** 13:6,7 **Z zero**  161:1 **0 1**  **1** 70:19 71:5 ,12 89:11 99:12 **1:30** 126:5 ,6,14,15 126:22 **10** 14:22 31:3 38:10 60:14 69:19,21 ,21 74:4,13 75:6 77:9 77:10 78:8 80:10 81:17 ,17 119:13 198:15 230:7 ,8 232:21 **10-minute** 223:20 **10:30** 56:4,8,9 **100** 21:8 26:16 232:19 **1000** 1:8 **10th** 231:11 **11** 138:16 230:8 ,9,9 232:22 233:5 ,8 234:2,3 **11th** 230:8 ,8,13 232:21 ,21 ,21 **12** 58:13 60:14,18 **12:30** 126:5 **12th** 230:8 ,9,10,13 232:21 ,21 ,22 233:6 234:2,4 **13** 69:17 **14** 38:9 58:13 60:14 60:15 ,18 69:16,18 74:9 75:6 99:2,9 232:7 **14th** 232:14 **15** 31:3 56:3 98:16 178:3 230:22 232:12,17 ,20 234:3

**15-minute** 56:1 **15th** 231:6 232:7 ,10 232:13 **16** 153:5 **16th** 231:1 ,1 ,1 ,6 232:10,12,17 ,20 234:3 **17th** 231:1 ,2,5 **18** 9:13 10:10 233:1 233:2 234:4 **18th** 231:5 ,8 **19** 155:20 **1980s** 19:22 **1990** 19:15 **1996** 19:16 **19th** 231:5 ,8 233:1 233:3 234:4 **2 2**  69:4 89:10 98:12 99:12,15 **20** 18:2 32:11 225:2 225:20 **2001** 11:14 12:15 **2012** 17:16 **2014** 12:15 160:20 161:6 **2015** 1:12 **20585** 1:9 **24** 121:6 **25** 7:6 8:17 **27** 10:10 **27th** 124:16 233:10 233:22 234:2 **28** 11:13 **28th** 100:8 124:16 233:11 ,16,20,22 234:2 **29th** 233:11 **2A** 90:7 **3 3**  98:12 99:12,15 123:18 ,20,22 **3:00** 230:19 **30** 99:20 100:4,8 176:10 **31** 99:20 100:5 ,10 **31st** 233:2 **32** 132:22 136:14 150:9,11 **37** 132:5 136:14 **39** 132:4,22 134:18 134:20 135:18 136:1 ,14,14 137:2 185:12 187:19

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# TRANSCRIPTION CERTIFICATE



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