### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 1 1 U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY 2 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 COMMENTS ON PROPOSED CLIMATE, AIR QUALITY, AND 5 PERMITTING RULES FOR THE OIL AND NATURAL GAS 6 INDUSTRY 7 8 WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 9 10 9:00 A.M. - 7:55 P.M. 11 12 U.S. EPA REGION 8 13 1595 Wynkoop Street 14 Denver, Colorado 15 16 17 18 19 20 21ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. 22 COURT REPORTERS (800) 288-3376 23 www.depo.com 24Reported by: Carla D. Capritta, RPR Registered Professional Reporter 25 File No.: A909468

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 2 1APPEARANCES: 2 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY PANEL: 3 GREG GREEN, HEARING CHAIR DAVE COZZIE, HEARING CHAIR 4 CHERYL VETTER AMY HAMBRICK 5 DIERDRE ROTHERY MONICA MORALES 6 CLAUDIA SMITH 7 8 SPEAKERS: 9 Tracee Bentley Joe Salazar Jon Goldstein Shakti 10 Kathleen Sgamma Paddy McClelland John Loewy Su Ryden 11Vincent Calvano Phillip Doe Wes Wilson Barbara Mills-Bria 12 Cindy Liverance Griselda Landa-Posan Kate Fay Meriam Johannes 13 Christine Berg Andre Gelfuso Goetz America Sherwood Kelsey Silver 14Robin Mann Rudolph "Rudy" Gonzales Dirk Richter Alex Renirie 15 Daniel Tso Dulce Saenz Ralph Motto Anne Harper 16 Cindy Borroway Eric Huber Stan Dempsey Josh Joswick 17 Elliot Jim Eric Waeckerlin Jim Armstrong Rhonda Peters 18 Kathy Plomer Milt Hetrick Jesse Ulibarri Karen Dike 19 John Jacus Karen Kalavity Alexa Ballenger R.J. Harrington 20 Camelia Feibelman Catherine Collentine Christina Aguilar Bryce Carter 21 Cynthia Martinez Douglas Henderson Bruce Baizel Sussy Valdez 22 Korby Bracken Audrey Mascarenhas Eva Henry Alissa Grutze 23 Pam Eaton Jonathan Beltran 24 25

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 3 1 SPEAKERS: 2 Jesse Prentice-Dunn Stephanie Hsiung 3 Roger Singer Peggy Tibbetts 4 Kristin Dickinson Hilda Nucete 5 Sophia Guerrero-Murphy Susan Kohut 6 Marilyn Ham Cherry Hall 7 Casey Quinn Chris Eaton 8 Andrew Casper Angela Miller 9 Catherine Sundvall Becky English 10 Kent Abernethy Jessica Abell 11 Joan Seeman Lauren Swain 12 Robert Alexander Field Scott Hatfield 13 Lewis Romero Jeff Neuman-Lee 14Rosemary Lytle Elizabeth Hudetz 15 Chris Applegate Brendan Blanchard 16 Sheila Davis Emma Bray 17 Peter Mueller Michael Saul 18 Matt Hardwick 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (Commencing at 9:00 a.m.) 3 MR. GREEN: Good morning, everyone. I'm going 4 to go ahead and open up the hearing. My name is Greg 5 Green, and I'm chair of today's public hearing. I'd 6 like to thank everybody for coming today. 7 Joining me on the panel are Cheryl Vetter from 8 our Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, on my 9 left; Amy Hambrick, also from AQPS, on my right; and Dee 10 Rothery from Region 8. 11 We're here today to hear your comments on 12 EPA's proposed rules relating to the oil and natural gas 13 sector. The specific rules are: 14 Oil and Natural Gas Sector: Emissions 15 Standards for New and Modified Sources; 16 Source Determination for Certain Emission 17Units in the Oil and Natural Gas Sector; and 18 Review of New Sources and Modifications in 19 Indian Country: Federal Implementation Plan for 20 Managing Air Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged 21 in Oil and Natural Gas Production from Indian Country. 22 EPA's Administrator signed the proposed rules 23 on August 18, 2015. 24 The proposed New Source Performance Standards 25will establish methane and VOC standards for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 5 1 hydraulically fractured wells and require owners and 2 operators to find and repairs leaks. The proposed rule 3 also would extend emission reduction requirements 4 further downstream, covering equipment in the natural 5 gas transmission and storage segments of the industry 6 that was not regulated in the Agency's 2012 rules. 7 The proposed Source Determination Rule 8 clarifies the EPA's air permitting rules as they apply 9 to the oil and natural gas industry. 10 We also are taking comment on the proposed 11 federal implementation plan to implement the Federal 12 Minor New Source Review Program in Indian Country for 13 oil and natural gas production. That plan, known as the 14 FIP, would be used instead of site-specific Minor New 15 Source Review preconstruction permits in Indian Country. 16 It would incorporate emission limits and other 17 requirements from six EPA emissions standards, including 18 the 2015 proposed updates to the New Source Performance 19 Standards on which we are taking comment today. 20 If you would like more details on the proposed 21 rules, there are fact sheets available through our 22 registration desk downstairs. 23 Before we get started, I'd like to go through 24 a few housekeeping items and ground rules that will make 25 today's hearing run smoothly.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 6 1 First, please be sure you have checked in at 2 the registration desk, even if you are not planning to 3 speak today. And if you signed up to speak online or by 4phone but haven't told us that you're here, please step 5 out to the registration desk and let the EPA staff know 6 that you've arrived. 7 I will call speakers up in pairs. When your 8 name is called, please come to the speakers' table at 9 the front of the room. 10 When I call you to speak, please state your 11 name and spell it for the court reporter. Your comments 12will be transcribed and included in the record of 13 comments on the proposed rule. 14 It is very important that you tell us which 15 rule or rules you are speaking about. 16 Each speaker will have five minutes to give 17 comments. We have a timer light to help you know how 18much time you have left to speak. 19 When the light turns from green to yellow, 20 that means you have one minute remaining; when it turns 21 red, that's the signal you are at five minutes and it is 22 time to stop. 23 When you are finished speaking, please remain 24 at the table until the person next to you has completed 25his or her testimony.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 7 1 We are here to listen to you today; however, a 2 panel member may ask questions to clarify your comments. 3 I will then call up the next pair of speakers 4 and so on. 5 If you have brought a written copy of your 6 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 7 registration desk before you leave today. We will put 8 any written comments submitted today in the official 9 docket for the proposed rules. 10 We also have comment cards available at the 11 registration desk if you would like to submit additional 12written comments today. 13 If you want to comment in writing later, 14 stop by the materials table near the registration desk 15 and pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 16written comments. Comments must be received by 17November 17, 2015. 18 Let me assure you that EPA gives as much 19 consideration to comments we receive in writing as we do 20 to comments we receive at public hearings like this one. 21 So if you have more comments that you 22would like to provide the EPA, please submit them by the 23 comment period deadline. Your comments will be 24 reviewed. 25 If you have any questions during the day,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 8 1 please see the staff at the registration desk, and 2 someone will assist you. 3 Thank you again for taking the time to share 4your comments on the EPA's role, and let's get started. 5 So our first two speakers are Tracee Bentley 6 and Jon Goldstein. You may have to speak up a little 7 bit in the microphone to project a little bit. And 8 Ms. Bentley will go first. 9 MS. BENTLEY: Good morning. My name is Tracee 10 Bentley; T-r-a-c-e-e, B-e-n-t-l-e-y. I believe I'll be 11 addressing all of the regulations that we're speaking 12 about today. 13 MR. GREEN: Thank you. 14 MS. BENTLEY: Okay. Good morning. My name is 15 Tracee Bentley, and I'm the executive director of the 16 Colorado Petroleum Council, a division of the American 17 Petroleum Institute. API is the national trade 18 association representing all facets of the oil and 19 natural gas industry, which supports 9.8 million U.S. 20 jobs and 8 percent of the U.S. economy. 21 API has more than 625 members that includes 22 large integrated companies as well as exploration and 23production, refining, marketing, pipeline, marine 24businesses, and service and supply firms. Collectively 25 they provide most of the nation's energy, and many will

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 9 1 be directly impacted by the proposed regulations we are 2 here to discuss today. In five minutes it's difficult 3 to speak substantively to the details of these reviews 4 and proposed actions; however, API intends to submit 5 detailed comments on each. 6 For my first point, our industry has 7 voluntarily led the way in its pursuit of improved 8 operations to safely maximize the recovery and capture 9 of these valuable oil and gas resources. We are 10 incentivized to do that, and many of these leading 11 technologies that have been broadly used by industry 12were subsequently incorporated by EPA in its Natural Gas 13 STAR Program. 14 My second point: Even as U.S. oil and natural 15 gas production has surged, methane emissions have 16 declined significantly. For example, methane emissions 17 from hydraulically fractured natural gas wells have 18 fallen nearly 79 percent since 2005, and total methane 19 emissions from natural gas systems are down 11 percent 20 over the same period. These reductions have occurred 21 during a time when total U.S. gas production has 22 increased 44 percent. 23 This industry has also played a significant 24 role in the 27-year lows in power sector CO2 emissions 25we see today.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 10 1 These trends are indicative of what our 2 industry, when given the freedom to innovate, can 3 achieve to improve the environment and our nation's 4 energy security. What our industry has and will 5 continue to achieve under the current regulatory system, 6 without directly regulating methane, dwarfs the emission 7 reductions EPA has estimated in these proposed rules. 8 My third point is that directly regulating 9 methane as proposed in the NSPS rule is unnecessary. 10 The 2012 final rule indirectly regulates methane by 11 regulating natural gas as a surrogate for VOCs. Since 12methane is the primary constituent of natural gas, there 13 are no additional emission reductions that will occur 14 from replacing the surrogate regulatory concept with 15 direct regulation of methane; therefore, EPA should 16 continue the practice of indirectly regulating methane 17 through the use of natural gas as a surrogate for VOCs. 18 My fourth point: We urge EPA not to get in 19 the way of the success story, by developing one-size20 fits-all regulatory solutions. Our industry is big, 21 it's complex, and our operations vary substantially 22 across the nation. As we learned in the development of 23 the 2012 NSPS rules, EPA should exercise caution in the 24development of these rules, to allow operational 25 flexibility as it seeks one-size-fits-all regulatory

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 11 1 solutions. Industry must be able to comply with the 2 requirement of these new rules. In the 2012 NSPS rule, 3 EPA allowed implementation for storage vessel 4 requirements to be phased in to accommodate the vast 5 number of affected facilities. EPA should consider 6 whether or not a similar compliance schedule is 7 warranted in the proposed NSPS rules. 8 We also urge EPA to accommodate operators that 9 are currently implementing leak monitoring and repair 10 requirements, whether due to existing air permits; state 11 regulations, for example Colorado's Regulation 7; or 12voluntary commitments, to satisfy the federal rules that 13 -- federal rule requirements and minimize regulatory 14burden for those operators. 15 Finally, we urge EPA to coordinate its efforts 16with other agencies to avoid implementing duplicative 17 requirements that could potentially hinder the continued 18production of the energy that our nation will continue 19 to demand. The rules we are discussing today are a 20 small slice of the pending regulations that our industry 21 is facing. EPA has also released proposed control 22 technique guidelines for implementation of the pending 23 revised ozone air quality standard and pending 24 regulatory requirements from the Department of 25 Interior's BLM on federal lands. These will also add to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 12 1 the cumulative impact to our industry in future 2 operations. 3 We urge EPA and the Administration to 4 coordinate their efforts and strongly encourage you to 5 extend the comment period by 60 days, to allow a minimum 6 of 30 days overlap with the proposed BLM rule. Without 7 this overlap, industry will not have the chance to 8 understand the cumulative impacts and provide meaningful 9 feedback to avoid conflicting requirements across 10 federal agencies. 11 To close, CPI and its members recognize the 12 importance of developing these valuable resources 13 responsibly; however, the last thing we need is more 14duplicative and costly regulations that would increase 15 the cost for energy for Americans and undermine our 16 competitiveness -- 17 MR. GREEN: Please wrap it up. 18 MS. BENTLEY: Thank you. -- and undermine our 19 competitiveness when the operations that will bear the 20 brunt of these regulatory impacts represent only 1.4 21percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. 22 CPI remains committed to working with the EPA 23 and the Administration to identify additional cost24 effective control opportunities when, which implemented, 25 do not hinder our ability to provide the energy our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 13 1 nation will continue to demand for many years to come. 2 Thank you. 3 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. 4 Mr. Goldstein. 5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Thank you. My name is Jon 6 Goldstein. I'm senior energy policy manager for 7 Environmental Defense Fund. J-o-n, G-o-l-d-s-t-e-i-n. 8 On behalf of our one million members nationwide, we 9 would thank you for the opportunity to testify today on 10 this important issue. 11 You'll hear today from many voices, 12 representing many different sides of this issue. There 13 are a few key facts that I wanted to share at the outset 14 that are beyond debate. 15 Number one, methane is a very potent climate 16pollutant. And, in fact, over the first 20 years after 17 it is emitted, pound for pound, methane has more than 18 80 times the carbon impact of carbon dioxide. If you 19 want, as I do, to address the issue of climate change in 20 our and our children's lifetimes, cutting methane 21pollution is critical. 22 Number two, the oil and natural gas sector is 23 the largest industrial source of methane in the United 24 States. EPA estimates oil- and gas-related methane 25 emissions exceed 7 million metric tons per year,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 14 1 equivalent to a 20-year climate warming effect of 2 160 coal-fired power plants. 3 And, number three, there are readily available 4 low-cost technologies that can substantially cut these 5 emissions. A study by ICF International concluded that 6 the industry can cut methane emissions by 40 percent or 7more for only one penny per thousand cubic feet of 8 natural gas produced. Because these measures capture 9 gas that would otherwise be wasted, while they reduce 10pollution, they also have an important -- save an 11 important domestic energy resource. And at the same 12 time, these same technologies also capture other ozone13 forming and cancer-causing pollutants. 14 For these indisputable reasons, we strongly 15 support EPA's proposed standards that will for the first 16 time create national requirements to reduce dangerous 17methane pollution and waste from the oil and gas 18 industry. However, the facts justify EPA going further 19 than its current proposal in its effort to cut methane 20 emission. 21 While inventory data provided by the oil and 22 gas industry itself indicates it is the largest 23 industrial source of methane in the U.S., the most 24 recent scientific studies suggest the amount may yet be 25 substantially higher; in fact, the most up-to-date study

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 15 1 on methane emissions from Barnett Shale area in Texas 2 concludes that emissions from the oil and gas sector are 3 actually 50 percent higher than estimates. 4 Why the discrepancy? Scientists from EDF and 5 Reading University researchers found that the 6 underreporting of methane pollution was due, in large 7 part, to a small number of sites with extremely large 8 leaks. These so-called super-emitter sites are 9 unpredictable. They may be old or new wells, marginal 10 or large producers, and they may have been fine 11yesterday but today show evidence of large methane leaks 12 that just cropped up. 13 Frequent leak detection and repair inspections 14 are the only way to catch and fix this problem, but the 15proposed EPA standards only call for monitoring twice a 16year, with opportunities for facilities to reduce the 17 frequency of monitoring even further. This is not good 18 enough. We urge EPA to finalize an LDAR program that 19 calls for at least quarterly monitoring and is not 20 subject to frequency adjustments. 21 States like Colorado and Wyoming are leading 22 -- and leading companies have recognized that more 23 frequent monitoring is necessary and cost effective. 24And they've employed these solutions in a commonsense 25way to help protect air quality and is consistent with

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 16 1 economic development. 2 No state has done more to lead on adjusting 3 methane emissions than Colorado. Governor Hickenlooper 4 and his administration deserve praise for making 5 Colorado the first state in the nation to directly 6 regulate methane from the oil and gas industry. EPA 7 should recognize the requirements these states have put 8 in place as it finalizes these standards. 9 And not only is the air benefiting, Colorado's 10 economy is stronger for these actions as well. In the 11year since Colorado enacted its rules directly 12 regulating methane, Weld County, the heart of the 13 state's drilling boom, had the country's highest job 14 growth rate. 15 These rules are also fostering a vibrant and 16 growing methane mitigation industry. According to a 17 recent report from Datu Research, Colorado ranks third 18 in the nation for clusters of the companies that make, 19 sell, and support methane-control technology, the 20majority of which are small businesses. 21 EPA's proposed standards are an important 22 step forward, but it can and should be improved by 23making leak detection and repair requirements at least 24 quarterly. 25 We also respectfully urge EPA to quickly take

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 17 1 action to address emissions from existing sources, with 2 thousands of wells already out there that can also be 3 cost-effectively controlled with these same measures. 4 Again, on behalf of Environmental Defense Fund 5 and our members, thank you for the opportunity to 6 testify at today's hearing. We appreciate your 7 consideration of our comments and recommendations as you 8 finalize these standards. 9 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Goldstein. One 10 question. Were you commenting on the NSPS or all the 11 rules? 12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: All the rules. 13 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Thank you. 15 MR. GREEN: Both of you. 16 Our next speaker is, if I pronounce this 17 right, will be Kathleen Sgamma. 18 MS. SGAMMA: Good morning. 19 MR. GREEN: Good morning. 20 MS. SGAMMA: Thank you. Kathleen Sgamma with 21Western Energy Alliance. We represent oil and natural 22 gas producers in the West, in Colorado and across the 23 West. We are the independents, the small producers with 24 an average of 15 employees. 25 I'm going to start, really, by putting some

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 18 1 things in perspective, because I'm going to deviate from 2my prepared comments. What we just heard from EDF is 3 what we've been hearing from EDF for quite some time. 4 It is trying to exaggerate the issue, and so I would 5 just like to address a few things, to put things in 6 perspective. And I know you know this. I mean, I'm 7 going to be quoting from your own inventories. 8 But, you know, first of all, the industry, the 9 oil and natural gas industry, is not the largest 10 industrial source of methane in the United States. 11According to EPA's inventory, it is agriculture, which, 12 of course, bears the question of: Why is the oil and 13 natural gas industry being singled out, as compared to 14 other industries, when we're the only industry that 15 significantly captures, and puts to beneficial use, 16methane? 17 So I think another thing that EDF is doing to 18 exaggerate the problem is talking about how methane is 19more potent than CO2, for example. Well, that is true, 20 but it persists in the atmosphere, of course, decades 21 less than CO2, perhaps even a hundred years less. 22 So taking that all into account, which is what 23 EPA's inventory does by converting everything into 24 carbon dioxide equivalents, of course, is that -- and 25 again, I know you know this, but we're continually

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 19 1 hearing this from EDF -- when you put those in carbon 2 dioxide equivalents, which takes into account the 3 potency of methane compared to CO2 and other greenhouse 4 gases, methane accounts for 9.5 percent of U.S. green5 house gas emissions. 6 When you look at what the contribution is of 7 the oil and natural gas industry to overall greenhouse 8 gas emissions, it's about 3.4 percent, so 10 times less 9 than the largest source, which is, of course, 10 electricity generation. 11 And that begs another point, which is that 12when we use more natural gas for electricity generation, 13 we achieve extremely high rates of carbon diox- -- or 14 carbon -- excuse me, climate change benefit. So by 15 using more natural gas for electricity generation, of 16 course, we have delivered more climate change benefit 17 than any other industry. Brookings Institute estimates 18 that the natural gas industry is 2.6 times more 19 effective at reducing greenhouse gas emissions than is 20 wind and 4 times more effective than solar. 21 So I think it helps to put the larger 22perspective on the issue. If we spend too much time 23making the production of oil and natural gas more 24difficult, more costly, with these rules, and I'm 25 speaking to the -- the full complement of rules before

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 20 1 EPA, then what we're doing is we're actually potentially 2 jeopardizing a much larger climate change benefit that 3 comes from the increased use of natural gas. So if we 4 focus on these very costly regulations that EPA's own 5 data show are not cost effective, buried in the rule, 6 we -- you know, we are losing sight of that larger 7 climate change benefit. 8 When EDF talks about estimates being 9 50 percent higher than previously thought, what they're 10 doing is looking at studies that are trying to get at 11measuring methane emissions effectively. They, EDF, 12University of Texas, and others, have done various 13 studies, and they all range from about 1.1 percent 14 leakage rates, which is EPA's current estimate, to 15 about, at the high end, 1.6. So that 50 percent higher 16 is a range of studies that are showing very low leakage 17 rates. 18 And, in fact, EDF mentions that, as long as 19 emissions are -- those leakage rates are below 20 3.2 percent, which 1.1 to 1.6 is well below 3.2, natural 21 gas still delivers a huge climate change benefit. 22 So I just wanted to put that EDF -- those 23 talking points into perspective. I see my time is up. 24 Thank you very much. 25 We do request 60 days' extra time for the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 21 1 comment period. 2 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 3 Our next speakers are John Loewy and Vincent 4 Calvano. Mr. Loewy, you will go first. 5 MR. LOEWY: Thank you very much, and thank you 6 for the opportunity to comment on EPA's proposed rules 7 governing methane emissions from oil and gas operations. 8 My name is John Loewy. I live in Denver, Colorado, and 9 formerly I served as chair of the Colorado Air Quality 10 Control Commission. 11 Listening to some of the comments, since I 12walked in, reminds me of many days I spent on the other 13 side of the table, listening to similar comments. It's 14very interesting. It's kind of like a flashback. 15 In my role as -- formerly, as chair of the Air 16 Quality Control Commission during the 2014 state rule17making, I helped enact strong rules that allowed 18 Colorado to become the first state in the nation to 19 tackle methane emissions in the oil and gas industry. 20 These sensible rules are helping eliminate more than a 21hundred thousands tons of methane as well as more than 22 90,000 tons of smog-forming pollution from our air 23 annually. That's the same amount as produced on an 24 annual basis by all the cars and trucks in Colorado. 25 This morning I would like to comment briefly

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 22 1 on the importance of regulating methane emissions and 2 Colorado's experience in doing so and to offer a couple 3 suggestions for strengthening the rules proposed here. 4 First, a couple points about methane, and 5 you've already heard a bit of this. Methane packs 6 84 times the warming power of carbon dioxide over a 7 20-year time frame. Cutting these emissions is among 8 the fastest and most cost-effective ways to reduce -- 9 excuse me -- human climate impact. 10 Cutting methane emissions, based on our 11 experience, is eminently feasible and highly cost 12 effective. A study by ICF International concluded that 13 the oil and gas industry could cut methane emissions 14 40 percent for about one penny per million cubic feet. 15 Methane emissions from the oil and gas 16 industry are a huge problem nationally and here in 17 Colorado; more than 7 million tons every year, according 18 to your figures, EPA's figures. And as you heard 19 before, this has the equivalent climate impact of 160 20 coal-fired power plants. 21 Cutting methane will have significant benefits 22 to public health. The same techniques proven effective 23 in cutting methane, also reduce the emissions of 24pollution that leads to ozone formation, which is a 25 serious public health threat.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 23 1 Getting these rules in place in Colorado was 2 not easy. It took leadership from our governor and a 3 willingness to work together from leading industry 4members, environmental and public health advocates, 5 along with the expertise and dedication of the staff at 6 the Department of Public Health and Environment. 7 It was also an unprecedented level of public 8 involvement which was solicited and received. 9 It's immensely gratifying that EPA has looked 10 toward Colorado's rules as a model upon which to base 11 this current proposal. As I've indicated, though, that 12 rulemaking process was extensive, involved all the key 13players of industry and other groups as well, and is in 14 the process of being fully implemented now, and, as I 15 understand from my former colleagues, implemented 16 smoothly. 17 While EPA's proposal is a good start, it falls 18 short of the Colorado rule in two key areas: 19 First, the EPA rule, proposed rule, does 20 nothing to regulate existing sources of many thousands 21 of oil and gas wells that have already been drilled and 22 are potential sources of harmful pollution across the 23 country; and, second, the proposed rule could be far 24 stronger on its leak detection and requirement -- and 25 repair requirements.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 24 1 In both these cases, EPA can look to what 2 Colorado has done to prove what's achievable. 3 Again, I thank you for the opportunity to 4 express my views today. 5 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Loewy. And I 6 assume, from your comments, that you are speaking 7 primarily towards the emissions standards for new and 8 modified sources. 9 MR. LOEWY: Yes, that's correct. 10 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 11Mr. Calvano. 12 MR. CALVANO: Good morning. Thank you for 13 allowing me to bring these comments before you. 14 My name is Vince Calvano. I'm from Boulder, 15 Colorado. And I'm a member of the Rocky Mountain Sierra 16 Club and also on the Policy Committee of the Colorado 17 Renewable Energy Society, but I'm here speaking today on 18my own behalf. And I'm also here in support of the 19methane pollution standards proposed by the EPA for the 20 oil and gas industry. 21 And I appreciate the efforts that the EPA's 22made to increase monitoring and curbing the emissions 23 standards from both new and modified sources. But as 24you heard, many times before me, this very real problem 25warrants doing more and having stronger standards.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 25 1 The oil and gas industry is responsible for a 2 large percentage of the methane emissions, and once 3 again, the impacts that it causes call for including all 4 sources and strengthening monitoring standards, 5 including, you know, existing sources. So I'd like to 6 see the EPA's proposed rules include those as well as. 7 And the oil and gas industry also claims that 8 the emissions are trending downwards; and, if true, they 9 should embrace proposed standards and work to accelerate 10 this trend. However, we can't rely on the industry, as 11we know, and we need the EPA to enforce strong standards 12 not just for the positive cost benefit analysis, but we 13 need strong standards because they're vitally important 14 to reduce the impact on human health and the 15 environment, in fairness to future generations. 16 Thanks. 17 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Calvano. 18 Our next speakers will be Wes Wilson and Cindy 19 Liverance. I'm sorry if I didn't say that right. 20 MS. LIVERANCE: You were close. 21 MR. GREEN: Our first speaker will be Wes 22 Wilson. Please don't forget to tell us which rule 23you're speaking on. Thank you. 24 MR. WILSON: Well, thank you. Can you hear 25me?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 26 1 MR. GREEN: Yes. 2 MR. WILSON: My name is Wes Wilson. I worked 3 for EPA, right here in this office, for 35 years as an 4 environmental engineer. I'm now retired and 5 representing Be the Change, a nonprofit organization 6 dedicated to better government here in Colorado. 7 I'm here today as a concerned citizen to 8 testify that these rules are inadequate as a remedy and 9 they're not in time to be effective. 10 You're going to use your Clean Air Act 11 authority to compel the industry to reduce methane and 12 toxic air emissions, and that should have some benefits 13 for climate stability and reducing ozone and health 14 threats. But these rules would only reduce methane and 15VOCs, by EPA's own estimate, by about 25 percent. In 16 other words, less than a fourth of the toxic gas that's 17 emitted from oil and gas production, mostly from 18 fracking oil wells, only 25 percent will be captured. 19 Is 25 percent enough to matter? 20 To a large extent, EPA is mimicking what's the 21 experiment here in Colorado under the Clean Air, Clean 22 Jobs Act of 2010, which cut coal-fired power plants, and 23 the utilities choose to replace that with natural gas 24plants. 25 That should, as the President and the industry

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 27 1 allege, that conversion should, give a climate benefit, 2 but that claim is conclusively false. Here in Colorado 3 the ambient air analysis by CU and NOAA show more than 4 4 percent of the methane produced by the industry 5 escapes. In Utah the same analysis shows 9 percent; 6 shale gas methane in Marcellus would have a 12 percent 7 leakage rate. At least 4 to 9 percent we're seeing in 8 the West is very comparable to what Professors Tony 9 Ingraffea and Robert Howarth of Cornell found in 2012 10 when they estimated the life cycle emission rates 11between 3.9 and 7.8 percent. In contrast the EPA's 12 bottom-up approach only alleges a 2.4 percent leak rate. 13 The critical question EPA has to answer: What 14 amount of methane leakage would assure that substituting 15 natural gas for coal aids climate stability and how do 16we achieve that? 17 EPA's fact sheet shows now-dated information 18 about methane's global warming potential being 25 times 19 that of CO2 over a century, but the IPCC's last, or 20 fifth, assessment updated that to 36 times. But since 21methane has a short atmospheric life of 12 years, the 22 IPCC specifically warned policymakers that there's no 23 scientific basis for comparing global warming potential 24 over a century. Over 20 years, methane is 86 times more 25heat-trapping than CO2. But critically, methane has a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 28 1 global warming potential of 125 times in 10 years, 2 considering feedback mechanisms. Fully a threatening 3 125 times more heat is -- solar heat is retained by a 4pound of methane, compared to a pound of CO2, in that 5 critical decade after methane escapes. 6 The EPA should adopt a 125 global warming 7 potential because that is, in fact, the amount of heat 8 retained on the globe. Therefore, unless the future 9 leak rate is less than 1 percent, then the claim that 10 natural gas is better for the climate than coal is 11 false. 12 We just heard, from Kathleen Sgamma, that the 13 EDF has published approximately 3.2 percent would still 14be natural gas better than coal. They lowered that to 15 2.7, 2.8. Well, even that number doesn't compare 16 favorably with the 4 to 9 percent leakage rate we're 17 getting in the West, as observed by NOAA. So if these 18 rules go in, a 25 percent reduction would get us back to 19 a 3 or 7 percent leak rate, clearly higher than EDF's or 20 this 1 percent number they're using for the 10-year 21 global warming potential. 22 Now, initial studies by EDF seem to be 23 comparable, but EDF reported last month that 24uncontrolled oil completions to be hundreds of times 25more than EPA's inventory. Just last month, the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 29 1 inventor of EPA's approved methane measuring device 2 reported that this field instrument may underestimate 3 methane releases by a factor of 10 over 100. Perhaps 4 that explains why EPA's ambient measurements show 5 consistently higher leak rates than EPA's or EDF's 6 bottom-up. 7 Let me -- I want to get to VOC reduction and 8 health benefits. 9 MR. GREEN: One minute, Mr. Wilson. 10 MR. WILSON: In Colorado, epidemiological 11 studies show a 30 percent increase in birth defects for 12 residents within 10 miles of an oil or gas well. NOAA's 13 ambient air studies show 55 percent of VOC emissions 14 along the Front Range originate from the oil and gas 15 industry. 16 Colorado's rules require a bit more; however, 17 the Colorado regulations only capture about one-third of 18 the methane and VOCs. The remaining two-thirds is not 19 captured due to exemptions for existing and stripper 20 wells and the key fact that even 95 percent effective 21 flares still release both VOCs and methane. Neither the 22 state's plan nor EPA would reduce the cumulative gas 23 emissions, given this industry's expected growth. 24 As the inventor of the Peter Principle 25 recognized: Bureaucracies defend the status quo long

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 30 1 past the time when the quo has lost its status. You're 2 defending this fossil fuel industry with these rules. 3 You can and must do better to achieve a 4 climate stability goal and the public health protection. 5 Allowing the industry to release these toxic gases is 6 harmful to children today and children of the future. 7 Thank you. 8 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Wilson. 9 Ms. Liverance. 10 MS. LIVERANCE: Hello and good morning. I am 11 Cindy Liverance, the deputy director of the American 12 Lung Association here in Colorado. And I want to thank 13you, first of all, for taking the time to hold this 14hearing for public comments to limit pollution and 15 improve air quality through action on methane and toxic 16 air. 17 I am not an expert on oil and gas drilling and 18 all of the pollution it creates. But ozone pollution is 19 a problem that the American Lung Association is deeply 20 concerned about, and these rules to clean up methane and 21 air toxics will help. Many of the same leaks and 22 outdated practices that lead to methane pollution also 23pollute our air with the emissions that lead to the 24 formation of harmful ozone. 25 When methane is released into the air, VOCs

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 31 1 are also emitted and include the carcinogen benzene, 2 which is a primary component of ozone. Ozone can cause 3 coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath, trigger asthma 4 attacks, and is linked to premature death. Children, 5 our seniors, and people with asthma, respiratory 6 disease, and heart disease are the most vulnerable to 7 this pollution. 8 Methane is also a potent heat-trapping gas; it 9 drives local climate change. Climate change is already 10 taking a toll on the lung health of millions of 11Americans, from worsened air quality, extreme heat 12 events, wildfires, and more. And once again, climate 13 control affects the lung health of everyone but 14 especially our young and our seniors. 15 Methane pollution is not a problem that will 16 go away on its own. These proposed new methane 17pollution standards are an important step in the right 18 direction and will begin to address the public health 19 implications of oil and gas air pollution while also 20 bringing the United States closer to its commitment to 21 reduce overall greenhouse gas emissions by 2025. 22 The great state of Colorado has already taken 23 steps to address pollution from oil and gas operations, 24but all communities across our nation need these 25pollution control measures. And that is why EPA

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 32 1 regulations are important for all and existing oil and 2 gas operations. 3 In a poll conducted this past August by the 4American Lung Association, 60 percent -- 67 percent of 5 the registered voters overwhelmingly supported the newly 6 proposed standards to cut emissions of methane and other 7 toxic chemicals from the oil and gas industry. 8 Additionally, this was with voters across 9 partisan lines, supporting these regulations. This 10 includes 86 percent of Democrats, 72 percent 11 Independents, and 47 percent Republicans. It's also 12 important to note that: 13 Voters with strong support across the nation, 14with at least 65 percent of the voters in every region 15 in the country in favor of stricter methane standards; 16 And voters strongly support -- sided with the 17 side of regulation on methane pollution, as opposed to 18voluntary action by oil and gas companies. 19 Statistics and polls are helpful to gauge 20 support for an issue, but we need to also remember, we 21 are talking about people and their health and the 22 benefits of breathing healthy air. 23 We urge the EPA to finalize a strong methane 24 and air toxic standard for new sources and to promptly 25 act to address the existing sources as well. The strong

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 33 1majority of Americans will support you. Anything less 2 shortchanges our futures, our health, and our children. 3 Thank you. 4 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 5 Our next speakers will be Kate Fay and 6 Christine Berg. And once again, please remember to tell 7 us which rules you're addressing. 8 Kate Fay, you're first. 9 MS. FAY: Thank you. Good morning. I am Kate 10 Fay, and I represent Noble Energy as manager of 11 environmental and regulatory policy. 12 As you know, Noble, along with others, was 13 involved in the development and implementation of 14 Colorado's methane rules. Excuse me. We believe it's 15 important for EPA to learn from that experience. Noble 16 Energy will provide more detailed written comments 17 later, but for now, we have a few comments to offer 18 regarding the air rules, Colorado air rules, and the EPA 19proposal. 20 At Noble Energy we believe that taking 21 necessary steps to keep methane in the pipe is the right 22 thing to do. Noble believes adopting methane 23 regulations in Colorado demonstrates that collaboration 24 can result in a strong and workable state-led regulatory 25 regime.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 34 1 The Colorado rules are tough and were designed 2 to achieve additional environmental benefits that are 3 technically and economically feasible. EPA should 4 follow Colorado's lead and support state-led regulatory 5 approaches. 6 Just as an example, additional requirements 7 contained in the EPA proposal that we were evaluating at 8 this time, would result in significantly higher 9 compliance costs for, among other things, personnel, 10 technology, inspections, recordkeeping and auditing, 11without apparent additional value or environmental 12 benefit. 13 Colorado's demonstrated that state government 14 and the oil and natural gas industry, nongovernmental 15 organizations, and the public can and do work together 16 to achieve results that protect human health and the 17 environment while enabling responsible energy 18 development. We believe that the EPA should follow the 19 state's lead. 20 Thank you very much. I look forward to 21working with you. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Ms. Fay. 23 MS. FAY: And I'm, excuse me, speaking about 24NSPS. 25 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. Berg.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 35 1 MS. BERG: Thank you for the opportunity to 2 speak today, and I'm also speaking to the methane 3 emissions standards. 4 I am the mother of a two-year-old and recently 5 discovered I have one on the way. I can't tell yet. 6 I'm also the mayor of the beautiful city of Lafayette. 7 My journey this morning began as I drove my 8 child to her grandparents' house just across the border 9 of Lafayette to Erie. Erie is part of Weld County, 10 which has the distinction of hosting half the well sites 11 in the state, over 20,000 in one county. We share the 12 same air regardless of boundaries, political mindset, 13 rules and legislation. I know, all too well, the impact 14 the oil and gas drilling can have on a community, in my 15work with families who have been impacted. The negative 16 effects of fossil fuels operations have on our land, our 17 air, and our climate are clear, and polluters need to be 18 held accountable. 19 Oil and natural gas producers in Colorado 20 wasted nearly 250,000 metric tons of methane in 2013, 21before the state's rules were put into place. The good 22 news is, Colorado is now leading the way on clean air. 23 The even better news is, the Environmental Protection 24Agency is beginning to move in that direction. While I 25 support the EPA taking action to preserve air quality

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 36 1 and protect public health, they can and should do more 2 to limit methane and other pollutants coming from oil 3 and gas wells. 4 Colorado is the case study on how strong 5methane protections can co-exist with a strong economy. 6 Our economy expanded faster than expected last year, one 7 year after increased protections were finalized. 8 Two years ago Colorado finalized the best-in9 the-nation methane protections for oil and gas 10 development. Colorado's air protection rules are the 11 equivalent to taking all the cars and trucks in Colorado 12 off the road. The Colorado rules cut more than 100,000 13 tons of methane from the atmosphere; that's the same as 14 8 million tons of carbon. 15 Innovation is the key. The new methane 16protections in Colorado have actually created new 17 industries in the state. A recent report from the Datu 18 Research ranks Colorado third in the nation for methane 19mitigation technology. 20 While these points are all great news for 21 Colorado, the fact of the matter is the EPA can and 22 should do more to cut methane from oil and gas 23 development. While the proposed rules are a step in the 24 right direction, Colorado's methane success story -- 25 success story should inform the EPA that they can go

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 37 1much further to reduce air pollution from oil and gas 2 wells nationwide. 3 First, we need to develop robust programs that 4proactively detect pollution leaks. Second, the EPA 5 needs to move forward with a significant process to 6 address methane pollution from existing wells, in the 7 final rule, for the sake of climate and public health. 8 Colorado's rules deal with both new and 9 existing wells. There's no reason EPA cannot at least 10match or perhaps even exceed what we have put forward in 11 Colorado. 12 We hope the White House, the EPA, and Colorado 13members of the Federal delegation take note of what 14we've done on methane here in Colorado and understand 15 that strong air quality protections and economic growth 16 can happen at the same time. And ask yourselves, 17 shouldn't all children, all people, regardless of where 18 they live, have equal access to clean air standards? 19 The path to cleaner air is here, it's 20 attainable, and Colorado is leading the way. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. 23 Our next speakers are America Sherwood and 24Robin Mann. 25 MS. SHERWOOD: I'm America Sherwood. Good

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 38 1morning. 2 Pope Francis has declared climate action a 3 moral obligation; he considers it our moral duty to 4 safeguard future generations, especially the world's 5most vulnerable people and creatures, from the great 6 dangers of climate change. 7 I agree and I am here on behalf of the 8 vulnerable. I'm not a paid lobbyist but an informed 9 ordinary citizen, not a special interest group. 10 The Lung Association's State of the Air report 11 grades the following Colorado counties an "F": Adams, 12Arapahoe, Boulder, Douglas, El Paso, Jefferson, Larimer 13 Rio Blanco, and Weld County. A "D" was given to Denver, 14 Garfield, and La Plata counties. 15 This report also contains the population by 16 counties as well as those people under 18 and over 65, 17which includes me, who have as asthma, COPD, CV disease, 18 diabetes, and the poverty estimates lists per county. 19 The numbers are nowhere close to zero, but in the 20 thousands and ten thousands. These are all related -- 21 lung-related illnesses that point to the gases we are 22 all breathing now and have been breathing. The deaths 23 were not reported. But there is a report that there is 24 2.1 million deaths worldwide in the IOP, I-O-P, studies. 25 I know that other states have decided to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 39 1 regulate methane as well. Our air in Colorado contains 2methane as recorded and observed by NOAA in their air 3 quality studies. We are sharing methane with the rest 4 of this planet and our immediate neighboring states. 5 NOAA measured the methane in our air from oil 6 and gas. It found that 20 tons of methane per hour were 7 exhausted into Colorado's and this planet's atmosphere. 8 Benzene and other volatile gases are spewed into the 9 atmosphere at much higher levels than government 10 estimates. These gases affect our nation's crops, 11 drinking water, along with sea life, plant and animal 12 life, as well as our health. 13 Leaks occur when fracking or chemical wastes 14 are attempted to be stored from sediments (inaudible). 15 Poor regulation, inattention, lack of law enforcement 16 contribute to delinquencies and continual violations. 17 This lawlessness has created a monumental cleanup 18project that will take generations to recover from. 19 If this generation does nothing, we are 20 causing our own extinction. No one will be spending 21money on anything except doctor bills and funeral costs. 22 The sick, the dying, and the dead cannot invest in any 23 future. 24 As decision-makers we, as a nation and 25 inhabitants of this precious planet, have to do what is

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 40 1 good and right for mankind. Our legacy and credibility 2 are in peril if we do nothing to change the wrong 3 direction we have taken until now. 4 As a 30-year-old retired teacher -- 30-year 5 retired teacher from having taught a yearly lecture on 6 ecology to my class, I owe it to my students, as well, 7 to testify here today. 8 Thank you. 9 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 10 Ms. Mann. 11 MS. MANN: My name is Robin Mann. I'm from 12 Rosemont, Pennsylvania. I'm here with fellow Sierra 13 Club members, but speaking today on my own behalf. 14 Thank you for the opportunity to comment. I'm 15 commenting on the NSPS standards. 16 By issuing these first-ever standards to 17 reduce methane pollution, EPA is recognizing methane as 18 the powerful contributor to climate change that it is 19 and the oil and gas sector as its largest industrial 20 source. EPA is also more fully responding to the major 21public health threat posed by methane and the VOCs, 22 soot, and hazardous air pollutants from the oil and gas 23 sector. 24 Thank you, EPA, for promulgating this very 25 important, if overdue, regulation. Though not as

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 41 1 comprehensive as it needs to be, especially in omitting 2 existing sources, the draft is a good start. 3 Between the summer's massive fires, some still 4 consuming Western forests and communities, and severe 5 drought there and every -- elsewhere, the climate crisis 6 is screaming for attention. It is clearer and clearer, 7 by the day, that we must shift our economy away from 8 fossil fuels altogether, as quickly as possible. And in 9 the meantime, aggressive action is imperative to limit 10 emissions from all greenhouse gas emission sources. 11 Oil production and the processing, production, 12 transmission, and distribution of natural gas accounts 13 for nearly 30 percent of U.S. methane emissions. It is 14past time for the oil and gas industry to enjoy this 15 unlicensed -- to enjoy this unlimited license to 16pollute. 17 Federal regulation of oil and gas emissions is 18 imperative. The states have resisted putting effective 19 limits on the industry's fugitive emissions, the threats 20 to their citizens' health notwithstanding. And 21 everyone, everywhere deserves to breathe air that is 22 free of toxics and safe to breathe. 23 Colorado is the exception that proves the 24 rule, responding to high smog pollution levels and 25 threats to public health from its burgeoning oil and gas

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 42 1 industry and last year becoming the first state to 2 directly regulate methane pollution from oil and gas 3 operations, including existing ones. 4 I know a lot of people here live under the 5methane cloud. I'm from Pennsylvania. Communities in 6 the Marcellus Shale region are suffering the effects of 7 unchecked methane pollution from drilling operations and 8 compressor stations. Many residents near well pads and 9 compressor stations have been sickened; many have had 10 their homes rendered unsafe and unfit to live. 11 The recent peer-reviewed studies in -- two 12 recent peer-reviewed studies in Pennsylvania have linked 13 the health impacts to concentrations of fracking 14 operations; one related to frequency of cardiological 15hospitalizations, and the other to incidence of low16 birth-weight babies. 17 So far the political will has been utterly 18 lacking to address this, but we're working on that. 19 Federal methane standards will begin to shift the cost 20 of methane pollution from the health of children and 21 communities to the oil and gas industry that largely 22 refuses to employ effective leak detections. 23 Only about 2 percent of Pennsylvania operators 24 of existing sources participate in EPA's voluntary 25Natural Gas STAR Program. The natural gas industry in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 43 1 Pennsylvania alone wastes enough methane to heat over 2 half the households in Pittsburgh for a year and emits 3 the equivalent of 700,000 cars. 4 The draft rule is a good start. It covers 5many of the emission sources of concern. But full and 6 comprehensive coverage is needed. The final rule should 7 include the additional sources of liquid unloading 8 events, intermittent pneumatic controllers, the well 9 site compressors, and also storage tanks. 10 EPA also needs to ensure that gas flaring is 11held to an absolute minimum by requiring zero-emission 12 equipment or gas capture wherever that's technologically 13possible; and where it's not technologically possible, 14 the combustion needs to be as efficient as possible, 15 95 percent or higher. 16 The approach to leak detection and repair 17monitoring is also a concern; it is an open invitation 18 to industry abuse. Owners and operators are 19 incentivized to lowball the leaks that they find, in the 20 way that the rule is structured, to avoid more frequent 21 inspections. EPA should replace this trust-based 22 approach with regular inspections, scheduled on at least 23 a quarterly basis. 24 Also, in the final rule, EPA should fully 25 represent and monetize the societal benefits in health

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 44 1 cost savings from reduced methane pollution. These 2 benefits are an important underpinning of the rule, and 3 they need to be represented. The industry savings as 4 well are a societal benefit, from conserved methane, and 5 they need to be quantified in the final rule. 6 It is critically important for the EPA to 7 follow up to develop strong and effective standards for 8 existing sources as soon as possible. The impacts to 9 people's health and the air quality in our communities 10 are occurring from current operations, and those won't 11be covered by the proposed rule. Those emissions must 12 be covered if the U.S. is to meet its international goal 13 of reducing overall greenhouse gas emissions 26 to 14 28 percent below 2005 levels. 15 MR. GREEN: Please wrap it up. 16 MS. MANN: I'm a grandmother of three tiny 17 grandchildren. I want to see them inherit a just and 18 stable and a good future. We're not on our way there 19yet, but this is a good start. We need to do better. 20 Thank you. 21 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 22 Our next speakers are Daniel Tso and Dirk 23 Richter. 24 MR. RICHTER: Good morning. My name is Dirk 25 Richter, and I live in Longmont, Colorado. And I'm the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 45 1 owner of a company. It's a small company that I started 2 last year. 3 Over the last 15 years, I've been a research 4 scientist and engineer working at the National Center 5 for Atmospheric Research in Boulder and the University 6 of Colorado. And during this time, I carried out 7 airborne air quality studies with NASA and NOAA and 8 National Science Foundation-sponsored projects. 9 Last year I started a company, which entered 10 the Methane Detector Challenge issued by the 11 Environmental Defense Fund, in partnership with eight 12major oil and gas companies, with the goal to 13 development smart, cost-effective sensors that can 14provide continuous unmanned leak protection for every 15well production site in the nation. 16 Natural gas has become an important piece of 17 the total U.S. energy mix today and foreseeable future, 18 and when done right represents the least carbon19polluting fossil fuel resource. 20 Emissions from gathering and distribution of 21 natural gas caused by unintended leaks, however, can 22have several significant impacts, including: 23 Air quality: Hitchhiking volatile organic 24 compounds contribute to high ozone levels and toxic 25 gases such as benzene, impact the safety of workers and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 46 1 residents that live in close proximity to production 2 sites; 3 Second, climate system: The warming potency 4 of methane released in the atmosphere is 80 times of 5 CO2; and with trillions of cubic feet of production each 6 month, leak rates as small as 1 percent have a 7 significant impact to the climate system; 8 And, third, lost revenue: Even at 1 percent 9 leak rate, that is currently the lowest estimated leak 10 rate, over $1 billion simply evaporates into the 11 atmosphere. 12 Innovative solutions to address this problem 13 are becoming available. These market-ready solutions go 14 above and beyond the currently successfully applied 15 technologies and lead to win-win situations for all 16 stakeholders. Specifically, the benefits of continuous, 17 autonomous, and on-site leak detection are complementary 18 to existing leak detection efforts but offer the 19 following additional benefits: 20 Operators know the leak size and location of 21well sites that have leaks and can instantly deploy 22 their LDAR team efficiently and thus reduce truck rolls 23 and associated overhead costs; 24 Leaks can be fixed in hours, not months. This 25 is of tremendous value, especially for larger leaks;

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 47 1 The amount of gas saved is much -- much more 2 than the capital cost of continuous autonomous monitors, 3 which have little to no associated labor costs for years 4 of dependable service; 5 Operators can prove that they are near zero 6 emissions and radically improve the safety of on-site 7 workers and ensure the safety of residential complexes 8 in cases of urban developments; 9 Operators gain insight to the frequency and 10 failure rate of components which are causing the leaks 11 and, hence -- and, hence, can continuously improve 12 infrastructure and reduce costs. 13 In the past year, our company, together with 14 the Environmental Defense Fund and eight major oil and 15 gas companies, including Anadarko, Noble, and Shell, we 16 have been innovating and testing real-world solutions, 17which will be entering a pilot phase with operators 18 early next year. 19 Our low-cost sensors are developed and made in 20 Colorado and use one of the world's most sensitive, 21 rugged, laser-based sensor technology that our team, 22with decades of experience of laser technology, has 23 tirelessly -- tirelessly been developing over the course 24 of this last year. 25 Two rounds of independent industrial testing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 48 1 at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, 2 Texas, have confirmed our breakthrough technology and 3 showed strong results. The sensing solution cost per 4 site is a fraction of the cost saved by reducing the 5 leak rate by just 1 percent. 6 It is of utmost importance that this 7 particular and other future innovative initiatives will 8 be embraced in any forthcoming regulation policy and 9 rules. 10 As regulations move forward, incentives for 11 technology innovations that result in win-win situations 12must be embraced and perhaps even rewarded; otherwise, 13progress towards -- progress towards leak-free natural 14 gas production can be slowed. And progress in making 15 natural gas the cleanest fossil fuel energy requires 16 innovation, cooperation, and cost-effective solutions, 17 especially in a downmarket environment. 18 We hope that such considerations will be 19 included in forthcoming regulation and policy that is 20 currently under review. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Richter. 23 MR. TSO: Good morning. Daniel Tso. 24 (Spoke in Navajo.) 25 MR. TSO: Good morning, and I appreciate the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 49 1 opportunity to come before you. I just expressed my 2 Clan's and therefore also expressed my relationship with 3 the Mother Earth. 4 As we grow up, Navajo people are taught that, 5 yes, your mom, she bore you; she's not going to be here 6 forever. Mother Earth will always be here for you; for 7 your water, food, and the clean air. And so that's how 8 we grow up to be -- do our best to be stewards of the 9 land. But with this new technology of hydraulic 10 fracturing, we are facing a tsunami of industrial 11 development. 12 Yes, we hear about the wells, and the 13 horizontal drills, but all that also comes with the 14pipelines that connect the wells, the tanks that hold 15 the produced water, the tanks that hold the crude oil, 16plus compressors that compress the well. And so we are 17 now seeing a devastated landscape. Where people thought 18 the land was worthless: Let the Navajos live there. 19And now for profit, for economic advancement, for the 20 almighty dollar now, we -- they find out the land has 21value. 22 We, as Navajo People, we've always known it 23 had value. That is our customary homeland, land between 24 the sacred mountains. We were told that: Occupy that 25 land, you hold the Earth together. And now we see this

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 50 1 impact, and it puts us in a -- in a different realm. 2 Now we have to start talking about air quality, the 3 effects of the methane releases, the compressors that 4 are pumping out and are being allowed to release more 5 than the EPA standards. 6 The energy companies go to the environment 7 department to ask for waivers on the air quality 8 standards; and left and right, they're being allowed the 9 waivers. So we are faced with hydrogen sulfide, other 10 volatile organic compounds, that -- that is way away 11 from the rules and regulations that are in place. 12 And now you are proposing some new regula13 tions, but I say to you, there has to be monitoring, 14 there has to be good reporting, there has to be 15 enforcement. Enforcement is the key, and the imposition 16 of penalties to those entities that do not meet those 17 new regulations and standards. 18 The other aspect that we are concerned with is 19 the impact of the health to our elderly, to our 20 relatives that are in marginal health status. We have a 21high prevalence of diabetes, and we have our folks being 22 driven to the dialysis units in Farmington, and so the 23 roads are the lifeline to good health. And right now we 24have 150 trucks on dirt roads, and those trucks raise 25 the dust. And so then the folks that have

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 51 1 breathing/lung problems, they are also affected. 2 So we -- 3 MR. GREEN: Please wrap it up. 4 MR. TSO: Okay. And so in that aspect, we are 5 asking, yes, we -- we applaud the fact that you are 6 wanting to do the more stringent regulations, but again, 7 I say there has to be monitoring and there has to be 8 enforcement and imposition of penalties. 9 I appreciate the time. 10 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Before you leave, I 11 just want to make sure I have your names right. First 12 speaker was Dirk Richter? 13 MR. RICHTER: That's right. 14 MR. GREEN: And second speaker's name is 15 Daniel Tso? 16 MR. TSO: Correct. 17 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 18 MR. TSO: Thank you. 19 MR. GREEN: Our next speakers will be Ralph 20 Motto and Cindy Borroway. Please remember to tell us 21which rules you're speaking on. Thank you. 22 MR. MOTTO: My name is Ralph Motto, and I'm 23 with Lasen Inc., and I'm speaking on all three rules 24 that you are making. 25 I would like to thank you, first, for allowing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 52 1me to speak, and thank you for addressing a very 2 important problem. I'm not a speaker and I'd rather 3 have a dental root canal than be up here talking, but 4 I'll try to do my best so you can understand. 5 I'm with a small company called Lasen. We 6 have developed a infrared LIDAR, a laser sensor system, 7 applied along the pipelines between 150 to 300 feet at 8 65 miles an hour. We record the full pipeline visually 9 and give accurate GPS markings of each leak we find. We 10 have a sensitivity of 5 parts per million. And it's 11been proven on several government tests. Our accuracy 12 is 98 percent. 13 Since 2004 we have flown over 200,000 miles 14 and found over 20,000 leaks. The DOT put out a report, 15 and I have it here in the packet for you, of between 16 2005 and 2011, we have saved 2.933 trillion BTUs of 17methane energy because we have detected those leaks; and 18we prevented 46,000 tons of carbon from escaping into 19 the atmosphere. 20 We give a report within 24 hours after we fly 21 the lines, with GPS location of the leaks. The oil 22 companies, we have several of them that are applying for 23 them and were very happy with our source. 24 Now, after saying all that, the reason why I'm 25here is we read through your regulations, and any oil

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 53 1 company reading through them will determine the only 2 system that you endorse is the IR camera or the OGI. 3 It's a good system. It really is -- and we have tested 4 it quite a few times -- when you can control your 5 environment, you have a -- and have the persons trained 6 to operate it. 7 But even in the best scenario, we say it's fit 8 only about for 10,000 parts per million -- 10,000 -- 9 yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not -- I'm a terrible speaker. We 10 have found that, in aerial surveys, it's only -- the 11best it can possibly do is just 30,000 parts per million 12 detection of methane. 13 We are very concerned because on Page -- on -- 14 in your report, on Page 117 and 166, you say it is the 15best system out there for detecting methane. Any oil 16 company reading your report will think that you endorse 17 the IR camera only, and all other systems out there are 18 null and void. And our experience is that the majority 19 of the leaks that we find are below the 10,000 parts per 20mill. 21 If your -- if you -- if you keep the verbiage 22 the way it is, then -- and there are other systems out 23 there that are different than ours, that work well, but 24we have found that we believe our system, of course, is 25 the best. But if you keep the verbiage the way it is,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 54 1 the oil companies are going to think that this is the 2 only system you endorse, and you are going to miss the 3 90 percent of the leaks that are out there. 4 That's -- I'm finished. 5 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you, Mr. Motto. 6 If you'd like to leave the package with you or include 7 it downstairs at the registration desk. 8 MR. MOTTO: Okay. 9 MR. GREEN: All right. Ms. Borroway. 10 MS. BORROWAY: Thank you. Good morning. My 11 name is Cindy Borroway. I'm a Lakewood city councilor 12 and a thirty-year-plus Colorado resident. I am not 13 going to be nearly as technical as the previous speaker. 14 I'll keep my comments brief, and they're about the EPA's 15methane emissions standards. 16 As a mom, I can tell you that I'm very 17 concerned about the impacts of methane and smog-forming 18pollution from oil and gas development, on my family's 19 health, and my health, and my future grandchildren. 20 As an elected official, I can tell you that 21 the people of the city of Lakewood share these same 22 concerns. We are seeing far too many ozone action days 23 on the Front Range, and we see now that the Denver area 24 is being bumped up from moderate to nonattainment for 25 ozone pollution, a sign that we need to do more in order

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 55 1 to try and stop the pollution. 2 I believe I mentioned, I'm a 30-year resident. 3 When I moved here in 1984, we had the big, brown cloud, 4 for those who have been here long enough, and you 5 actually were told don't go jogging in the morning 6 because it's so bad. After seeing it clear up, I hate 7 to see it go backwards. 8 EPA rules are a step in the right direction; 9 however, the EPA should know that Colorado has been 10 taking action to cut this pollution. As EPA moves 11 forward, it should look to Colorado as a shining example 12 for a template. Colorado's first-in-the-nation methane 13 rules are the equivalent, in pollution cuts, of taking 14 all the cars and trucks of Colorado off the roads. They 15 also eliminate more than a hundred thousand tons of 16methane from our air. And I believe a previous speaker 17mentioned this as well. 18 I'm happy to see the EPA moving ahead with 19 similar rules to try and develop the kinds of stronger 20 requirements to reduce methane and smog-forming 21pollution nationwide. Cutting methane emissions just 22makes good sense. Nationwide rules have been very cost 23 effective, since every ounce of methane captured is an 24 ounce the oil and gas -- oil and gas industry can sell. 25 Moving forward, EPA should take a hard look at

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 56 1 what Colorado has done to strengthen its proposal in 2 these key areas: 3 Colorado's rules apply to existing wells, and 4 the EPA's proposal only applies to new ones. This is a 5 huge loophole that needs to be closed. Our air is dirty 6 now, so we need to address thousands of wells out there, 7 without delay. 8 The EPA rule also needs stronger and more 9 frequent leak detection and repair inspections; four 10 times a year, as Colorado requires for most source leak 11 detection. Twice a year, with the possibility of even 12 less frequent inspections than the EPA has proposed, is 13 not good enough for our air. 14 Colorado has shown what is possible. I've 15 seen it happen here in the 30 years I've been a 16 resident. It's now time for EPA to level the playing 17 field for all the oil and gas industry across the U.S. 18with strong and sensible nationwide action. I believe 19 that this could continue to happen where we make changes 20 in our air quality, and my constituents will thank you 21 for doing that, as long as you make it a little bit 22 stronger than you have. 23 Thank you for your time. Good morning. 24 MR. GREEN: Thank you both. 25 MR. MOTTO: We're trying to marry both

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 57 1 technologies together, and we're looking for funding to 2 do that. 3 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speakers will 4 be Stan Dempsey and then Elliot Jim. 5 Are you Mr. Dempsey? 6 MR. DEMPSEY: I am, thank you. 7 MR. GREEN: Okay. If you could just do me a 8 favor, I think you heard, but she's asked you use your 9 microphone. That would be great. 10 MR. DEMPSEY: Use the microphone, okay. 11 Thank you very much. Good morning. My name 12 is Stan Dempsey. I'm president of the Colorado 13 Petroleum Association. The Colorado Petroleum 14Association, we call ourselves CPA, is a nonprofit trade 15 association that does business in Colorado, and we 16 represent all the segments of the oil and gas industry 17 in Colorado. 18 Colorado's oil and gas industry supports 19 213 jobs directly and indirectly in Colorado. It 20 contributes $25.8 billion to the economy. Yet our 21member companies have had to meet difficult changes to 22 their operations due to the steep decline in oil prices 23 since late last year. 24 EPA's proposal can significantly affect the 25 ability of operators to successfully develop oil and --

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 58 1 oil and natural gas operations, as the EPA proposed 2 regulations will impose significant new costs at a time 3 when energy companies are already suffering from a 4 difficult commodity market. 5 In Colorado, sustained low natural gas prices 6 since 2008 have had a long-term effect on production in 7 certain oil and gas phases. The number of oil -- of 8 drilling rigs operating in Colorado is half of what it 9 was a year ago. Western Colorado in particular has seen 10 a high unemployment rate and very few wells have been 11 drilled. 12 The rules will have significant impacts on 13 domestic energy development, which will also affect our 14 ability to supply affordable oil and natural gas, which 15will affect energy costs for struggling families in the 16 United States. 17 CPA and its members have been actively engaged 18 in the development of Colorado's air quality program for 19many years and have developed a strong working 20 relationship with the Air Pollution Control Division of 21 the Commission. We're thankful for the opportunity to 22provide Colorado operators the experience with respect 23 to the proposed federal rules in the past. We've taken 24 them seriously, and we appreciate that. 25 Thank you for holding this public hearing in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 59 1 Denver, particularly since Colorado has been at the 2 forefront of crafting and implementing air quality 3 programs and regulations, addressing air quality 4 challenges in various Colorado communities, including 5 those related to oil and gas. 6 As you know, on February 4, 2014, Colorado 7 adopted the first methane regulations, related to oil 8 and gas, in the country. CPA, on behalf of its members, 9 played an impactful role in making necessary and 10 important changes to that regulation. CPA challenged 11many of the facets of the proposed rules, as we did not 12 agree that the basis for adoption had been demonstrated, 13 and CPA had significant concerns about the costs, 14benefits, and technologies proposed as a part of that 15 rulemaking, and we have concerns about EPA's Subpart 16 Quad Oa proposal. 17 Specifically, CPA has long articulated its 18 continuing belief that regulating methane directly is 19 unnecessary and that the capture of methane can be 20 viewed as a co-method of -- of regulating volatile 21 organic compounds. EPA achieves this co-benefit by its 22 current practice of regulating natural gas as a 23 surrogate for VOC in the current Subpart Quad O rule. 24 Since methane is the primary constituent of natural gas, 25 no additional benefit can be gained by directly

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 60 1 regulating methane in the new proposed rules, as the EPA 2 admits on Page 1, dash, 1 of the RIA of the current 3 rule -- for the current rule. 4 The Colorado Petroleum Association has had an 5 ongoing and involved dialogue addressing issues and 6 concerns that have arisen, through its members, with the 7 Air Division in Colorado over the last 18 months 8 concerning Regulation 7. As a result of those efforts 9 undertaken in Colorado in 2014, implementation has not 10 been as significant, and there's been substantial steep 11 learning curve for all -- for all players. EPA must 12 learn from these hiccups and efforts in Colorado, or 13 else similar difficulties will arise on a national 14 scale. 15 As EPA evaluates the potential regulation, we 16 strongly urge the Agency to acknowledge those states, 17 like Colorado, have adopted robust and significant state 18 regulations related to oil and gas, and in Colorado's 19 case, methane, though implementation remains ongoing and 20 challenges continue. 21 Operators have devoted vast amounts of money, 22 resources and personnel to understanding and complying 23 with engaging on Regulation 7. Though CPA and its 24members remain in an -- in an evaluation mode, there are 25many components of this proposed regulation that either

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 61 1 conflict with, duplicate, or show themselves to be 2 inconsistent with the Colorado Regulation 7. 3 Because Colorado's program will achieve all 4 the necessary goals and requirements of EPA's proposal, 5 Colorado's program should be able to stand in lieu of 6 EPA's proposal. A long compliance with Regulation 7 in 7 Colorado will not hinder the efforts of achieving 8 improved air quality. In fact, CPA members have worked 9 throughout the world to improve their operations. 10 We're the beneficiaries of innovative 11 technology in Colorado resulting in increased production 12 of oil and gas, while at the same time achieving sizable 13 emission reductions. For example, in the Denver14 Julesburg Basin north of the Denver area, oil production 15has gone up since 2002 but emissions have gone down with 16 the development of state-of-the-art emission controls 17 employed to meet Colorado air quality standards. 18 We have a significant concern about the cost 19 benefits and technology proposed in your rulemaking. 20 For example, we urge -- 21 MR. GREEN: Please wrap it up. 22 MR. DEMPSEY: Certainly. We urge you to 23 compare the actual compliance costs with Regulation 7 as 24 compared to those that were proposed, and hopefully 25 they'll inform your decision.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 62 1 Thank you. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Is it 3 Mr. Elliot or Mr. Jim? 4 MR. JIM: It's Mr. Jim. 5 MR. GREEN: Okay. Thank you. 6 MR. JIM: Thanks for asking. Good morning. 7 To be honest with you, this is the first time I've ever 8 done anything like this on behalf of Sierra Club. I am 9 coming from the Four Corners area of the country, and I 10 wanted to thank you all in advance for offering us this 11 opportunity to speak before you. 12 I am close, pretty close, to the state line, 13 so I pretty much use Colorado as my playground, I guess. 14 I like to jump on my bike, do a lot of playing in and 15 around Durango. And the only reason I can do that is 16 because I have asthmatic problems, I guess, if I decided 17 to stay in my own state, which is Farmington. And I 18 can't do that because I start losing my breath and 19 stuff. So I usually bike in and around Durango. And it 20 just seems like something should be stressed about 21methane in my part of the world. 22 I -- to be honest with you, I don't have a lot 23 of facts and logistics before me, but I do stress 24 stronger EPA regulations and policy enforcement, just 25 like any other person that wants to breathe and has the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 63 1 right to clean air. 2 I -- oh, I also used to work for a big oil 3 field company in the Farmington area, and I used to 4 drive a chemical truck. And I have seen, firsthand, how 5 some of this -- some of this -- some of those guys work 6 in the field. And it's probably not the best thing to 7 see, you know, some of the practices they have. 8 As a matter of fact, I've even gotten released 9 from one company for having -- I guess, blowing the 10 whistle, more or less. But I was proud to do that, you 11 know, because I'm all for the environment, and I just -- 12 seems like something everybody should be concerned 13 about. 14 I understand that I live in a methane hotbed. 15And you can see satellite images projecting these -- 16 these views, and it's actually quite humbling and scary 17 at the same time. So I think, and I stress and implore, 18 any kind of regulations and enforcement that -- that 19make you put people in place. 20 Again, I do thank you for your time, and 21 that's all I have. 22 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much, 23 both of you. 24 Next speakers will be Jim Armstrong and Kathy 25 Plomer.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 64 1 MR. ARMSTRONG: Good morning. My name is Jim 2 Armstrong. I'm president of Apogee Scientific, a 3 Colorado company that was founded in 1993. And I built 4 the company to do three things: Protect the 5 environment; to protect the security of our nation; and 6 to provide quality services to the customers, in terms 7 of being cost-effective solutions to problems. 8 I'm excited to provide testimony today to the 9 EPA concerning the proposed rulemaking -- -making for 10 controlling methane and volatile organic compounds 11 through natural gas well sites, processing equipment, 12 and connecting pipelines. I have three points that I 13 wanted to stress, three main points. 14 Number one: I encourage the EPA to develop 15 effective regulations based on the sampling performance 16 standards and not be limited to any particular methods 17 for sampling, such as the proposed IR imaging cameras 18 and the possible use of the Method 21 technology. 19 Number two: While it -- while it is 20 definitely appropriate to find all methane and VOC 21 leaks, large leaks may occur at gas wells and operating 22 sites. These super-emitters, as some people call them, 23 release many times the quantity of future emissions 24 anticipated from more typical small leaks. 25 These larger leaks are most impactful to the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 65 1 environment, and they result in the loss of revenue for 2 the operators and the lessening of the resource of the 3 operators in terms of their longevity. 4 It is therefore recommended that more rapid -- 5more regular, rapid, and cost-effective monitoring is 6 carried out for at least the larger leaks to be 7 considered for the proposed regulations. 8 Gas companies -- Number three: Gas companies 9 should be given the choice to choose what appropriate 10 and improved monitoring levels can be used. For an 11 example, Apogee has been providing a fully vetted and 12 award-winning mobile leak monitoring system to the 13 natural gas and oil community for over a decade. The 14 LDS is a elegant solution that measures methane, total 15hydrocarbons, and CO2 simultaneously and individually at 16 .25 parts per million lower detection limits and at a 17 speed of 50 hertz. 18 That means that these detectors, they're 19mobile detectors, can be used on ground vehicles at 20 highway speeds, or be they trucks or ATVs in off-road 21 conditions, or from helicopters or used in airborne 22 sampling. 23 The example I'd like to give you is that a gas 24 company in West Virginia approached us to use the LDS 25 unit for some helicopter surveillances of their

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 66 1 operation where they had not only well operations in 2mountainous areas but also ran their connecting pipe3 lines across a piece of these mountains, making it very 4 difficult to get to them by either trucks or by walking 5 leak detection surveys. 6 The -- this part of the country is loaded with 7 deciduous trees, so you get a tree canopy that makes it 8 impossible, literally, to use things like LIDAR or the 9 IR camera systems to be able to spot the leaks. On the 10 other hand, the system we have, the leaks came to us. 11 So it worked very effectively for them. And again, it 12points out the fact that gas companies should be able to 13 use whatever works best for what their needs are. 14 And finally, to repeat the three main segments 15 that I want to leave you with, they are, to develop 16 regulations based on sample -- sampling performance 17 standards and quality methods and equipment to meet 18 those standards. Number two, conduct more frequent 19monitoring, especially for super-emitter leaks. 20 Certainly I would agree with other speakers today that 21 sampling more than twice a year is good policy in terms 22 of the regulations that you're going to propose. And to 23 allow gas companies to determine what monitoring methods 24work best for them. 25 Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 67 1 speak to you. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Armstrong. 3 Ms. Plomer. 4 MS. PLOMER: Thank you. My name is Kathy 5 Plomer. I'm here on methane standards. And I'm from 6 Broomfield, Colorado. I want to thank you for the 7 opportunity to offer comment on the proposed EPA methane 8 capture rule. 9 As a little background on myself, I've lived 10 in Colorado for the last 22 years. I have three 11 children; 14, 17, and 19; all born and raised here. I 12have 25 years of work experience in the field of public 13 health, and I currently serve on the board of education 14 for Adams 12 Five Star Schools. I'm a school board 15member, but I am speaking today on my own behalf. 16 I am testifying today to support and urge 17 strengthening of the EPA's recently prepared methane 18 standards for the oil and gas industry. Given the rapid 19 growth of oil and gas development in Colorado, these 20 rules are critical to protect air quality and public 21health. 22 The issue of air quality and safety around oil 23 and gas drilling sites strikes particularly close to 24home, as there is a large 19-well drilling operation 25being proposed 2500 feet from one of our middle schools

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 68 1 and within a mile of three other schools in the school 2 district where my children attend school and I serve on 3 the board of education. The proximity of this potential 4 drilling site to the neighborhood and schools makes harm 5mitigation, including methane capture, even more 6 critical. 7 When methane is released into the air, harmful 8 pollutants that have specific and public health 9 consequences are released; this includes toxic chemicals 10 like benzenes, which are linked to cancer, and other 11 smog-forming pollutants that can trigger asthma, a risk 12 to our kids and others alike. 13 I'm proud to live in the first state to 14 regulate methane pollution. I am relieved that 15 Colorado's standards and EPA's new proposed rules would 16 cover emissions from new wells proposed near schools and 17 residences where I live. What is concerning to me is 18 that the EPA's new proposed rules do not cover existing 19 wells, which are the major source of the methane 20problem. Currently millions of tons of gas and toxic 21 chemicals are leaking from drill sites and during 22 transport. 23 We all breathe common air, and I believe we 24 all deserve to breathe clean air, free from methane and 25 oil and gas production. National standards are critical

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 69 1 for the health of the public and for the reduction of 2 greenhouse gases. So I urge the final national 3 standards be that they include requirements for all 4methane leak sources in the gas and oil industry. This 5 includes covering storage vessels and compressors at 6 well sites. 7 I'd like the final national standards to 8 require source operators to use zero-emitting equipment 9 that capture gas for sale or beneficial use on site. 10 And finally, I'd like them to require more 11 frequent leak inspections, of at least four times a 12year, especially of compressor stations. 13 I believe we need to continue to study and 14 gather evidence of the safety of fracking and other 15 drilling practices in general; but in the meantime, as 16 drilling proliferates and gets closer to schools and 17 residences, sensible requirements to reduce methane 18 released into our environment are more critical than 19 ever for our public's health. 20 Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. 21 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. 22 All right. Our next speakers will be Jesse 23 Ulibarri and John Jacus. 24 Mr. Ulibarri, I hope I pronounced that 25 correctly.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 70 1 MR. ULIBARRI: Yes, you did. Thank you. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you. 3 MR. ULIBARRI: Good morning. My name is Jesse 4 Ulibarri. I'm a state senator representing southwestern 5 Adams County, specifically the cities of Commerce City, 6 Federal Heights, Westminster and Arvada, and the 7 unincorporated neighborhoods of southwestern Adams. 8 It's, fortunately, the area where I was born and raised, 9 where my grandparents raised my parents, where I'm 10 raising my two young kids. 11 It's my honor to be here today, to join you 12 for this public hearing, enjoy the perspective that I 13 have of being a life-long resident of southwestern Adams 14 County, and specifically as somebody who represents 15 150,000 residents here in the state of Colorado. 16 I'm here to talk specifically about the 17 impacts of methane on low-income communities of color. 18 The area I just described is predominantly low income 19 and predominantly folks of color. I represent 20 52 percent of my population which is Latino, 9 percent 21which is African American, 4 percent which is Asian 22 Pacific Islander. 23 My district is sandwiched between the greater 24Wattenberg Field on the north end, the DIA Airport to 25 the east, the Suncor refinery to the south, and the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 71 1 Cherokee Power Station also to the south. The coal 2 trains come into Denver; put a power plant right through 3 the center of my district. Our families are between 4multiple highways; I-25, I-70, 270, and US-36. 5 So when we talk specifically about the impact 6 of climate change and the release of methane, it's 7 something that my community knows personally because it 8 happens, literally, in our backyard, whether it's the 9 pipeline that's coming from the oil fields down into the 10 Suncor refinery, is the refinery itself, or the impact 11 that we've seen from climate-related disasters, 12 specifically the unusually strong wildfires and floods 13 that we witnessed here in the West and specifically here 14 in Colorado. 15 Just about two years ago, we had a incredibly 16 tough flood that impacted southwestern Adams County, 17 Weld County, Larimer County, and it was all communities 18 of color that disproportionally felt the impact. Entire 19 communities, trailer parks, were wiped away because of 20 the flooding. And we know that methane, in the near 21 term, is one of the most heavy pollutants for climate 22 change. 23 And so when we talk about the rules that we 24want to be implemented by the EPA, we want you to follow 25 the lead that Colorado has set, in setting a very high

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 72 1 standard, but we want you to go even further than we 2 have or even further than Wyoming or even further than 3 Idaho or other states that I've talked to on methane 4 capture and methane-limiting rules. 5 For us here in Colorado, we heard a call from 6 the Administration to limit methane in -- by the 7 Administration to see reduction by 40 to 45 percent, and 8 we want the Administration to actually follow through 9 with that commitment. This rule is a first step, but I 10 want to make sure that whatever comes forward is much 11 stronger so we can actually ensure that the impact that 12we're seeing developed in my community, in the senate 13 district I represent, and for the people that have 14 elected me to serve on their behalf that, in fact, we're 15 doing everything that we can to ensure their health and 16 safety. 17 I want to close with a final note, which is 18 that specifically Latinos in the state of Colorado are 19 at disproportionate risk of being diagnosed with asthma, 20 that Latinos living in Colorado specifically have a much 21higher rate of asthma and are much more likely to die 22 than nonwhite Latinos possessing an asthma diagnosis. 23 One of the aggravating factors is air quality, and so 24 this is something that is incredibly vital for my 25 community and for the people I represent.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 73 1 So again, thank you for taking the time to 2 hear the public on this, but we want to make sure that 3 the rule is as strong as possible. 4 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 5 Mr. Jacus. 6 MR. JACUS: Good morning. My name is John 7 Jacus, and I'm a partner with the Denver office of Davis 8 Graham & Stubbs, commenting here this morning for our 9 client Western Energy Alliance. The Alliance and its 10members appreciate the opportunity to comment at today's 11public hearing and urge EPA to carefully consider their 12 concerns and comments prior to final action on the 13proposed rules and guidelines. 14 The Alliance represents over 450 member 15 companies engaged in all aspects of environmentally 16 responsible exploration and production of oil and 17 natural gas across the West. The Alliance represents 18 independents, the majority of which are small businesses 19 with an average of 15 employees. The regulatory burdens 20 imposed by the recent onslaught of federal and state 21 regulations has had a particularly acute impact on the 22Alliance's members. Please consider these comments on 23 EPA's proposals for still more federal regulations, many 24duplicative of state requirements, in light of that 25 unique Western and small-business perspective.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 74 1 My first comment concerns the time made 2 available by EPA for written comment. While the 3 Alliance is willing and able to comment on the proposed 4 Source Determination Rule in 60 days, we need 5 significantly more time to comment on Quad Oa NSPS 6 rules, the draft CTGs, and the Indian Country Minor New 7 Source Review Program proposals. We'd ask for an 8 additional 60 days for making our comments on those 9 rules and proposals due in January; January 16, I 10 believe, of 2016. Thank you. 11 Also, these are high-level comments. More 12 detailed comments can only be prepared after careful 13 examination of the proposals, the regulatory impact 14 analyses, and other important sources of information for 15 these rulemakings as guidelines. 16 Turning to the draft Control Technique 17 Guidelines, the CTGs published last Friday are a 18 resource for states in their determination of reasonably 19 available control technology, or RACT, for existing oil 20 and gas sources in moderate to severe ozone 21 nonattainment areas. The Alliance appreciates that 22 these guidelines do not represent a hard floor or 23 otherwise significantly constrain states in their 24determination of RACT controls for existing oil and gas 25 sources of the type addressed by EPA in nonattainment

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 75 1 areas. And those controls would be specific to VOC 2 contents. 3 The Alliance's members generally prefer to 4 work with state and tribal permitting authorities to 5 establish RACT when necessary for specific oil and gas 6 source types and emissions of VOCs in their operations. 7 As a threshold matter, we note that the 8 proposed CTGs are based, in large measure, on controls 9 adopted by various states, some as state-only 10 requirements not intended for inclusion in an ozone SIP 11 at the time of adoption. EPA's proposed guidelines 12 recommend including such controls in SIPs, however, and 13 the same controls that are already on the books at the 14 state level, like here in Colorado, have not been fully 15 implemented or evaluated for their effectiveness. 16 Such a proposal at this time would appear to 17 unilaterally remove from further state consideration the 18 effectiveness and feasibility of those controls, which 19 we think is inappropriate, and premature at a minimum. 20 Additionally, for those states with many of 21 the proposed control techniques already in place or 22 being implemented, it does not seem appropriate to 23 require SIP revisions based on the proposed CTGs in just 24 two years' time, especially since those states are ahead 25 of many others. The deadline for SIP revisions should

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 76 1 be three years for all affected states or perhaps three 2 years for those states with many of these types of 3 controls already on the books, rather than just two 4years. 5 It's time EPA gave progressive states, and the 6 operators located there, some credit for early adoption 7 of improved control techniques. 8 More specific control technique comments 9 include: 10 That the use of methane data from the 11 Greenhouse Gas Reporting Program and back-calculating 12VOCs based on assumed gas composition is problematic. 13 This is nontoxic methane with low or no VOCs, in the 14 case of dry gas, and we think that the cost benefit 15 calculation suffered in those instances in particular as 16 a result of that approach. 17 There's a lot of misinformation about methane. 18 Methane, like carbon dioxide, is found naturally in the 19 atmosphere. It poses no direct health threat. It's not 20 toxic. There's no national standard for it, and, when 21 used in electricity generation, provides many clean air 22 benefits. 23 Turning very briefly to the Source 24 Determination Rule, the Alliance is concerned that EPA's 25proposed clarification of the definition of "stationary

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 77 1 source" for this sector is effectively a redefinition 2 that is inconsistent with binding case law and prior EPA 3 regulatory definitions remaining in effect for all other 4 sectors of our economy. 5 That said, and without waiving those concerns, 6 the Alliance strongly prefers the first preferred option 7 for clarifying the meaning of "adjacent" when 8 determining what comprises a stationary source for air 9 permitting purposes in the oil and gas sector. By 10 establishing a specific distance within which sources 11 under common control and in the same industrial grouping 12 are considered adjacent, Option 1 promotes certainty and 13 timeliness in the CAA, the Clean Air Act, permitting of 14 oil and gas in the facilities, which is a critical 15 concern of the oil and gas exploration and production 16 sector. 17 MR. GREEN: I think you have a half a minute. 18 MR. JACUS: Thanks very much. 19 Finally, concerning the effects of a 20 clarification like EPA's Preferred Option 1 -- excuse 21me. Regarding EPA's Preferred Option 2, allowing for 22 aggregation beyond a quarter mile if facilities exhibit 23 exclusive functional interdependence, this option is not 24 favored by the Alliance and is arguably illegal, in the 25 light of the 2012 ruling of the Sixth Circuit Court of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 78 1Appeals in the Summit Petroleum vs. the EPA case. 2 Thank you very much for the opportunity to 3 comment. 4 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. 5 MR. JACUS: Sure. 6 MR. GREEN: Our next speakers will be Alexa 7 Ballenger and Camelia Feibelman. 8 (Ms. Smith replaced Ms. Vetter on the panel.) 9 MS. BALLENGER: Hello. My name is Alex 10 Ballenger, and I'm an environmental sciences student 11 from CU Boulder. I would like to thank you for this 12 opportunity to offer comments. 13 I'm here to speak on behalf of myself and my 14 family and all others who have been impacted in some way 15by air pollution, in support of the EPA's recently 16proposed methane pollution standards for the oil and gas 17 industry. 18 As I'm sure you know, methane is an extremely 19potent greenhouse gas, with more than 80 times the 20 warming impact of carbon dioxide over a 20-year time 21period. This means it is one of the most powerful 22 greenhouse gas emissions contributing to climate change, 23 and this has far-reaching implications for not only 24 environmental health but public health as well. 25 As someone already suffering from asthma and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 79 1 upper respiratory disease, I know firsthand the impacts 2 that poor air qualities and smog and soot-forming 3 emissions and hazardous air pollution can have on human 4 health. I do not want this for my future children or 5 theirs, and I'm sure you feel the same way about your 6 own family. 7 The EPA's newly proposed standards will help 8 reduce these, alongside methane, generating immense 9 public health benefits as air quality improves, and 10 acting as an important step in addressing climate change 11 on a national scale. While I applaud these new rules to 12 new and modified sources of methane emissions, I hope 13 that the Agency will take the next step by developing 14 rules to reduce methane emissions from existing sources 15 as well. 16 The oil and gas industry must take 17 responsibility for their pollution, rather than asking 18 the public and our environment to bear the burden alone. 19 And again, thank you for this opportunity to 20 comment. 21 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 22 Just real quickly, we have a new panel member, 23 that's Claudia Smith. 24 All right. Go ahead, Ms. Feibelman. 25 MS. FEIBELMAN: Well, first, thank you all so

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 80 1much for giving us the opportunity to comment. My name 2 is Camilia Feibelman. I'm the director of the Rio 3 Grande Chapter of the Sierra Club, which represents 4 7,000 people throughout the state of New Mexico and West 5 Texas. Ten of us from New Mexico traveled, I think, a 6 collective 20 hours to get here from Farmington and 7 Albuquerque, in part because of the strong feeling that 8 there is a need for action now. 9 You've probably seen the satellite images of 10 the largest methane plume in the country hovering over 11 our Four Corners area, which many call a national 12 sacrifice zone, which supplies a lot of the fossil fuels 13 that power our homes. 14 So together we drove up. We're young people, 15middle-aged people, and seniors. We're urban people and 16 rural people and tribal people. We're kids and nurses 17 and citizens. 18 So all of you from New Mexico, can you wave, 19 wave to everybody and say, We've come a long way to have 20you hear us. We thank you for putting out these rules. 21We think they're incredibly important. 22 Our main hope is that you will apply them to 23 existing oil and gas operations. It's our understanding 24 that by 2018, 90 percent of the methane emitted will 25 come from existing sources, and this seems absolutely

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 81 1 essential. The technology exists, it's job creating, 2 and it's natural resources that can be sold on the 3 market. 4 A little bit about New Mexico. In 2013 New 5 Mexico emitted, through leaking, flaring and venting, 6 about 250,000 metric tons of methane. That's enough to 7 power the entire city of Albuquerque, about a half a 8 million people, for a year. Since 2009 New Mexico has 9 lost $42.7 million in royalties due to leaking, venting, 10 and flaring. 11 We're one of the poorest states in the 12 country. We have shocking levels of poverty, hunger, 13 throughout our state, that could be attended by this 14 lost revenue. In New Mexico we have 180,000 people who 15 suffer from asthma. As Elliot Jim mentioned, he can't 16 even go biking in his own hometown because of the impact 17 on his health. Two of our counties exceed ozone levels. 18 And interestingly enough, of the 475 oil and 19 gas producers in New Mexico, fewer than ten have joined 20 the EPA's voluntary methane reduction program. The 21voluntary program is not working. These need to be 22 required rules. And again, that rule ought to emphasize 23 existing wells so that we can capture that 90 percent or 24 so of methane release that will source from existing 25wells.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 82 1 We also think that inspections should occur 2monthly so that we can really keep on top of 3 implementation. 4 I guess I should just close by saying we're on 5 the road to Paris. Our nation and the President and our 6 citizens have to show, before the world community, that 7 we're pulling our part, that we're doing our part. 8 We're a fairly small portion of the world's population, 9 and yet we use so many of its resources, causing grave 10 consequences to the places that can least afford to 11handle it. 12 I spent ten years in Puerto Rico, where the 13 effects of global warming are on the forefront: Coral 14bleaching, erosion of our coastal areas. In New Mexico 15we're in a deep drought that, even with lots of summer 16 rain, we're not even close to emerging out of. 17 So at the end of the day, we've got to keep 18 fuels in the ground, especially the fuels on public 19 lands. It is just a shame to see a small few making 20 lots of money off fossil fuel extraction when the rest 21 of us are paying for it with our health. 22 So we hope you'll do everything to see these 23 rules implemented and applicable to existing sources. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 83 1 Before we go on, I just want you to know that 2 the light is working sometimes and sometimes it's not. 3 So I don't want to interrupt people to let you know that 4 there's only one minute left, so when we get to the 5 five-minute point, if the light's not working at that 6 time, I'll just let you know. 7 Our next speakers will be Christina Aguilar 8 and Cynthia Martinez. 9 (Ms. Vetter replaced Ms. Smith on the panel.) 10 MS. AGUILAR: Good morning. Thank you for the 11 opportunity to be here. My name is Christina Aguilar, 12 and I am from Denver, Colorado. I am the executive 13 director of the Colorado Organization for Latina 14 Opportunity and Reproductive Rights, otherwise known as 15 COLOR. 16 At COLOR we work to engage and empower the 17 Latino community to speak out about the policies that 18 impact our community. We are committed to ensuring that 19 Latinas and our families are able to access health care 20 and have the opportunities and protections to live with 21 safety and dignity. I am here today as a member of this 22 country's diverse Latino population and as one in five 23 Coloradans who are Latino, to support the EPA's proposed 24methane pollution standards for the oil and gas 25 industry.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 84 1 What we know is that when it comes to air 2 pollution, women of color and our families are often 3 disparately impacted. Increased exposure to pollution 4 has a dramatic and damaging impact on women's health. 5 Research shows that exposure to toxic chemicals in 6 polluted environments have resulted in women 7 experiencing early puberty, infertility, uterine 8 fibroids, and other reproductive health issues. 9 This is made worse when you consider the fact 10 that women of color and low-income women are less likely 11 to have access to health insurance or quality affordable 12 care to prevent and address the health problems that may 13 have environmental causes. 14 Methane, as you know, is the most significant 15 driver of climate change in the near term, with an 16 impact on climate change over 80 times as potent as 17 carbon dioxide in a 20-year period. Oil and gas 18 companies emit 7 million tons of methane from their 19 operations each year, the equivalent of 160 coal-fired 20power plants. These emissions are expected to increase 21 25 percent in the next decade if nothing is done. 22 Unfortunately, in the United States and 23 specifically here in Colorado, Latino communities are 24 among the first and worst impacted by the climate change 25 and unhealthy air quality that is worsened by methane

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 85 1 pollution. Many Latinos live in the country's most air2 polluted cities; and as methane pollution and climate 3 change make our air quality even worse, it is our 4 families' health that is suffering. 5 Already 14 percent of Latino children have 6 received an asthma diagnosis, and they are 40 percent 7more likely to die from this condition than are our 8 nonLatino white children. It is unconscionable for 9 Latino mothers to have to worry about letting our kids 10 out to play, outside, or to walk to school, for fear 11 that their health is being damaged by the air that they 12 are breathing, both in our neighborhoods and in our 13 communities. 14 Also problematic is the fact that Latinas will 15 face greater threats from methane pollution driven by 16 the warming of our climate, because of where many of our 17 families work. For example, climate-exacerbated extreme 18 heat increases the risk to Latinos, who make up one in 19 four workers in the outdoor industries of both 20 construction and agriculture. 21 Finally, the issues that we face with both 22 financial stability due to economic injustice also means 23 that Latinos in our families do not have the same 24 ability to bounce back after a climate-related disaster. 25 One in four Latinos is living under the poverty line.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 86 1 This is something that we have to consider as we turn on 2 the news and see that fires are burning in California 3 right now, as I speak. It is impossible to deny that 4 the unusually strong wildfires and floods that we have 5 seen across the Western U.S. in recent years are linked 6 to the change in our climate. 7 We expect more for our community. In fact, 8 85 percent of Latinos believe that reducing air 9 pollution is an important issue our leaders need to 10 address. Many Latinos don't have the resources to deal 11with these increased health costs. That's why 12 addressing methane pollution is so important to us. 13 The good news is that solutions for cutting 14methane emissions are not only readily available, but 15 they are cost effective and will help save a valuable 16American energy source. This is a win-win situation for 17 Latinos and for all Americans, protecting our health, 18 saving energy, and helping address climate change. When 19 we look at the impact global warming is having 20 throughout the country, it is clear that we simply must 21 do more. 22 We look forward to seeing the strongest 23possible methane standards finalized, alongside a rule 24 to limit methane pollution from existing sources, to 25 achieve the full reduction to methane emissions that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 87 1 were pledged. 2 Thank you again for this opportunity. 3 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. Martinez. 4 MS. MARTINEZ: Thank you for having me this 5morning. My name's Cynthia Martinez, and I'm a native 6 of Colorado, specifically Brighton, Colorado, and I am a 7 Brighton city councilwoman. I am also a member of the 8 Colorado Sierra Club and I love Colorado. I am here on 9 my own behalf. 10 We know that people from all over the country 11have discovered the beauty, uniqueness, and 12 opportunities we have to offer here in Colorado. Our 13mountains and rivers and unique quality of life are just 14 some of the reasons many people have chosen Colorado as 15 their home. 16 In the previous year, Colorado was the first 17 state to directly regulate methane pollution from the 18 oil and natural gas industry. Our rules included 19 stringent measures to detect and repair leaks, minimize 20 venting and flaring. Our economy is growing at a much 21 faster rate than we could have anticipated. And given 22 the rapid growth of all oil and gas development, it only 23makes sense we would continue to regulate methane 24pollution, and it -- it is very crucial to protecting 25 the health and welfare of Colorado.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 88 1 As a Brighton city councilwoman, I worked hard 2 at bringing up-to-date rules and regulations in 3 preparation of the oil and gas industry partaking in our 4 area. It was the intent of our council that working 5 with the oil and gas industry was crucial due to the 6 recent enactment of new regulations by the Colorado Oil 7 and Gas Conservation Commission governing such matters. 8 However, we had some very serious concerns regarding the 9 protection of our domestic water supply. 10 Through our city council staff and our 11planning commission, we were able to work with the 12 Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission in adopting 13 a new order, which set forth specific requirements of 14 oil and gas industry to protect groundwater in and 15 around Brighton. 16 This special rule recognized the unusual 17 circumstance that Brighton had in the majority of its 18 needs for water supply from shallow groundwater wells. 19 The order established buffer zones and best management 20practices and prevents the drilling of new oil and gas 21wells within 500 feet of existing city water wells and 22within 300 feet of any river, stream, lake or ditch 23 which is part of the water supply system for our city. 24 Additional groundwater sampling is required 25within a one-half mile radius from any existing city

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 89 1 well and within 500 feet of a river, stream, or a lake 2 related to the Brighton water supply. 3 The best management practice for any new wells 4 within these defined areas require additional measures 5 such as SNIPA (phonetic) drilling systems, containment 6 of fluids within tanks, berms and containment devices, 7 automated monitoring and shutoff capabilities, and 8 emergency spill define systems. 9 This order was the culmination of the 10 cooperative efforts by our City staff, representatives 11 from the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, 12 the Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment, 13 representatives from the oil and gas industry, and our 14 community. 15 Why is this experience so important? It is 16 important to understand how we arrived at our goal. We 17 collaborated with many different partnerships. We 18 educated each other as to our concerns and utilized our 19 expertise. We worked through difficult times to 20 understand each other's positions and issues. And we 21 accomplished so much more: A mutual victory for all of 22 us. 23 My point is, whether it is water supply from 24 shallow groundwater wells or methane pollution, it is 25 our responsibility to work together on solutions. I

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 90 1 believe my experience in working with the oil and gas 2 industry was crucial, and we must continue working 3 together to protect our citizens' environment and, most 4 importantly, our future, so that we all succeed. 5 Colorado ranks third in the nation for 6 companies that manufacture, sell, and support methane 7 control technologies. It is the home to 19 of these 8 companies, the majority of which are small businesses, 9 and four companies in the industry have manufacturing 10plants in our states. These companies equal jobs. 11 Our state regulations demonstrate that smart 12 environment policy can go hand in hand with economic 13 growth. But remember, when methane is released into the 14 air, so too are harmful pollutants that have significant 15public health consequences. This includes toxic 16 chemicals, like benzene, which are linked to cancer, and 17 other smog-forming pollutants. These industrial leaks 18 are like an invisible oil spill happening every day. 19 We all deserve to breathe clean air, free from 20 toxic ozone and lethal emissions from oil and gas 21production. We can protect our state by adopting strong 22 rules to protect our quality and public health and 23 welfare. These rules are a critical opportunity to 24much-needed commonsense protections in place. 25 It is our responsibility to protect our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 91 1 community. I love Colorado and believe that we are 2 leading the way in protecting our future. 3 Thank you for your time this morning. 4 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both very 5much. 6 Our next speakers are Bruce Baizel and Korby 7 Bracken. Mr. Baizel. 8 MR. BAIZEL: Good morning. Thank you for the 9 chance to make comments. My name is Bruce Baizel. I'm 10 the director of the Oil & Gas Accountability Project and 11 the Energy Program for Earthworks, a nonprofit 12 organization. I also serve on the STRONGER board, which 13 is the local stakeholder group that looks to state oil 14 and gas regulations across the country. I'm one of the 15 environmental stakeholders on that board. 16 Today I'm just speaking on the behalf of 17 Earthworks, and I'm speaking to the methane rule, not to 18 the aggregation or ozone. 19 Our organization has worked on oil and gas 20 issues for more than two decades, and we commented on 21 the NSPS for the oil and natural gas source category in 22 2012. We have thousands of members throughout the Rocky 23 Mountain states, in Texas, in California, and in the 24Marcellus Shale region. Many of our members are and 25will be affected by the climate change impacts of the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 92 1 largely unregulated emissions of methane from oil and 2 gas operations throughout those states. 3 Overall, we strongly support the rules of the 4NSPS as significant steps in addressing methane 5 emissions from upstream oil and gas operations. We are 6 seeing a reduction in leaks in Colorado due to 7 Colorado's recently adopted methane rule, so we are 8 confident that these amendments by EPA will also lead to 9 significant reduction in leaks and emissions of methane 10 in states that have not directly regulated methane. 11 We also believe that the rule will provide 12health co-benefits to those who live close to the 13 thousands of oil and gas facilities covered by this 14 rule, and we believe that the rule will provide an 15 economic benefit to this industry through the capture of 16 additional product that can be sold in the marketplace. 17 We are confident that an industry which has figured out 18 horizontal drilling techniques will also be able to find 19 a way to comply with this rule while remaining 20profitable. 21 We appreciate that the amendments will apply 22 to new, reconstructed, and modified equipment, 23processes, and activities across the oil and natural gas 24 source category. This represents the first step towards 25 the full regulatory coverage that is needed for this

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 93 1 significant range of methane emission sources. However, 2 here on the Front Range, in the San Juan Basin where I 3 live, and in other areas of the Rockies, emissions from 4 the thousands of existing wells and facilities already 5 constitute a significant source of emissions and 6 resulting impacts to workers and to people living, 7 working, or going to school nearby. 8 At Earthworks for the past year and a half, we 9 have been documenting the emissions from oil and gas 10 facilities in Colorado, New Mexico, North Dakota, 11 California, Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, with an 12 infrared camera. Generally we find that older existing 13 facilities seem to be leaking more methane emissions 14 than new facilities, as shown in videos. 15 And I'll be submitting these comments 16 electronically, so you'll have the links to them. 17 This certainly seems to be the case up here in 18 the Niobrara and in the San Juan and especially in the 19New Mexico portion of the San Juan Basin. 20 In addition, the Climate Action Plan for 21 Colorado, recently released, reinforces that more will 22 need to be done to rein in methane emissions, that that 23plan highlights the greenhouse gas emissions in the 24 state will increase by 77 percent from 1990 to 2030. 25 And if you look at the Figure 31 on Page 19,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 94 1 that's where I'm getting that from. And this is, in 2 part, due to increased emissions from the oil and gas 3 sector in the state. This illustrates why we need the 4 EPA rules and standards to cover existing as well as new 5 oil and gas facilities. 6 For these reasons, we urge the EPA to adopt 7 these proposed amendments without delay and to begin the 8 process of controlling emissions from existing oil and 9 gas facilities as soon as possible. 10 I thank you for traveling to Denver and 11holding these hearings and for your attention. 12 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 13 Mr. Bracken. 14 MR. BRACKEN: Good morning. My name is Korby 15 Bracken. I'm the director of Health Safety & 16 Environment at Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, Rockies 17 operations, both providing general comment and specific 18 comments on the four proposed rules that the EPA has 19 released. 20 Anadarko is one of the nation's leading 21producers of clean-burning natural gas. Anadarko is 22proud that our voluntary actions and collaborative 23 approach with regulators and other stakeholders are 24 resulting in cleaner air, fewer emissions, and more of 25 our product reaching our consumers.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 95 1 Our company has played a transformative role 2 in how energy resources are being produced, which 3 includes implementing emission-reduction technologies 4 and best practices across our operating areas. We also 5 focus on improving the science around methane emissions, 6 through studies with respected academic institutions and 7 the Environmental Defense Fund. Earlier this year we 8 demonstrated our support for a collaborative, 9 constructive, and state-led approach that resulted in 10 the modifications to Colorado's VOC rule, known as 11 Reg 7. 12 Primarily as a result of voluntary practices, 13 the natural gas industry has dramatically decreased 14methane emissions while increasing production to the 15point now that we are able to export natural gas to 16 other parts of the world. Technologies employed to date 17 by our industry have reduced methane emissions from 18 hydraulically fractured natural gas wells by almost 19 78 percent while natural gas production has increased by 20 38 percent. 21 Anadarko, alone, in the DJ Basin, has reduced 22volatile organic compound emissions by 98 percent from 23 2013 to 2014, while increasing our production by 24 10 million barrels over the year, all through voluntary 25 efforts.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 96 1 These constructive and collaborative efforts 2 are reducing emissions and ensuring natural gas remains 3 abundant and affordable and continues to be the most 4 reliable and salable option allowing for U.S. carbon 5 reduction targets. 6 Anadarko offers the following specific 7 comments to the proposed rules: 8 Regarding Quad O and the CTGs, we share the 9 concerns of our industry that EPA's one-size-fits-all 10 approach to methane reduction will significantly and 11 unnecessarily increase costs. Such an approach would 12 also carry the unintended consequences of curbing 13 further emissions reductions by discouraging voluntary 14 efforts by oil and gas producers and providing states 15 the opportunity to come up with state-specific rules 16 that fit operations in their region. 17 Detailed, prescriptive regulations restrict 18 innovation and can inadvertently set limits on actual 19 emission reductions. By contrast, a combination of 20 collaboration and voluntary actions often lead to more 21workable and constructive regulatory structures. We 22 urge the EPA to allow the development of these 23 strategies and provide flexibility. 24 If EPA continues to propose revisions to 25 Quad Oa, it needs to consider whether it is written in a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 97 1manner which industry is able to comply. In the 2012 2 NSPS rule, of the original implementation of Quad O, we 3 filled out a phased-in approach for compliance. We 4 believe EPA should consider whether or not a similar 5 phased approach for compliance schedules is warranted 6 for this proposed rule. 7 Operators are already implementing voluntary 8 leak detection repair -- detection measurements based on 9 regulatory and voluntary programs. EPA's in a position 10 to allow such existing leak detection and repair 11programs to satisfy federal requirements. This will 12 incentivize companies to continue to develop innovative 13 and cost-efficient strategies around leak detection and 14 repair. 15 Regarding source determination or source 16 aggregation: The proposed Source Determination Rule 17provides minimal to no environmental benefit while 18 significantly increasing the time burden and cost of the 19permitting process to states and permit applicants. 20 Controls for upstream oil and gas facilities are based 21 on the type of equipment installed already. The type of 22 equipment on-site will not change based on the 23 aggregation of locations. The proposal will simply 24 change the complexity of permitting, with no air quality 25 improvements. We strongly encourage the EPA not to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 98 1 finalize the proposed Source Determination Rule. 2 Finally, for the Federal New Source Review on 3 Indian Country: As written, this particular rule has no 4 utility, will not allow for a streamlined permitting 5mechanism for Utah, in which we operate, in the tribal 6 area shale, due to the inability to use the federal 7 implementation process for synthetic minors and in 8 nonattainment areas or areas that are anticipated to be 9 nonattainment. 10 Finally, we request the EPA and the 11Administration better coordinate its regulatory efforts 12with the Bureau of Land Management. We strongly 13 encourage the EPA to extend the comment period to allow 14 a minimum of 30 days to overlap the proposed -- the 15proposed BLM Venting and Flaring rule. Without this 16 extension, stakeholders will not have a chance to 17 understand the cumulative and overlapping impacts, in 18 order to provide meaningful feedback, to avoid 19 conflicting requirements across several agencies. 20 Again, thank you for allowing me to speak 21 today. 22 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. 23 Our next speakers are Eva Henry and Pam Eaton. 24Ms. Henry. 25 MS. HENRY: That'll be me. Good morning. I

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 99 1 am Adams County Commissioner Eva Henry. I represent 2 over 480,000 citizens north of Denver. 3 As an elected official, as a mom and 4 grandmother, I know firsthand how crucial clean air is 5 for our families and communities in Adams County. I 6 also know that steady, good-paying jobs are a 7 front-of-line issue for working people in Adams County. 8 That is why I am proud that the state of Colorado has 9 been a leader on strong rules to limit methane 10pollution. These rules clean -- clean our air and put 11 our businesses in a great position for growth as the 12 federal government follows suit. 13 In 2014 Colorado became the first state in the 14nation to tackle methane emissions from the oil and gas 15 industry. I am proud of the strength of our rules and 16 collaborative process that led to their enactment, with 17 industry leaders like Noble, Anandarko, Encana sitting 18 down with the environmental and community leaders to 19 come to an agreement on this. 20 These sensible rules are helping eliminate 21more than 90,000 tons of smog-forming pollution from our 22 air annually, the same amount produced by all the cars 23 and trucks in Colorado; and more than a hundred thousand 24 tons of methane, a highly potent greenhouse gas. 25 These rules do not kill jobs. They are

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 100 1 fostering a vibrant and growing methane mitigation 2 industry in Colorado. According to a recent report from 3 Datu Research, Colorado ranks third in the nation for 4 clusters of companies that make, sell, and support 5methane control technologies. The majority of these 6 companies are small businesses. This industry also 7 supports four Colorado manufacturing plants, providing 8 solid jobs across the state. 9 The Colorado methane gas rules did not kill 10 jobs. In the year after the State of Colorado enacted 11 our rules directly regulating methane, according to 12 Federal Bureau of Statistics, my county, Adams County, 13 businesses are second in the nation for job creation. 14 Seeing the success stories, other states have 15 started to follow Colorado's lead. Wyoming, California, 16 Ohio, and Pennsylvania have all adopted or are in the 17process of adopting rules that will significantly reduce 18methane and smog-forming pollution from the oil and gas 19 sector. And this year the Western Governor Association 20passed a resolution highlighting the importance of 21 regulation of methane emissions and a quantization of 22 natural gas that is currently lost to leaks, venting, 23 and flaring throughout the West. 24 Building on Colorado models, these rules will 25help create a level playing field for the Colorado oil

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 101 1 and gas companies, promote efficiency in the oil and gas 2 industry, and better protect the health of families from 3 oil- and gas-related air pollution. 4 National rules will also help Colorado's 5methane mitigation industry as other states and regions 6 play catch-up. The oil and gas industry itself has 7 noted that, due to Colorado's strongest-in-the-nation 8 methane rules, they will have to do little, if anything, 9 to demonstrate compliance with the new federal 10 regulations. 11 However, the EPA should go farther. Unlike 12 Colorado, the EPA -- EPA proposal only addresses new 13 wells. It would do nothing to reduce pollution from the 14hundreds of thousands of oil and gas wells that are 15 already out there. 16 Also the EPA should take a closer look at 17 Colorado's strong requirements for companies to 18 regularly check for and fix leaking equipment at 19 drilling and production sites. The EPA rule, as 20proposed, is leaving far too many tons of pollution on 21 the table, that could be sensibly and cost-effectively 22 controlled, as we have done here in Colorado. 23 This methane rule proposal is a good start, 24but it can and should go even farther to protect our air 25 and foster a vital Colorado economy success story.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 102 1 Thank you. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you. 3 MS. EATON: Hi. Excuse me. Hi. I'm Pam 4 Eaton, and I'm here today to speak about the NSPS rule. 5 So I'm the senior director of Climate 6 Emissions Reduction Campaign of the Wilderness Society. 7 The Wilderness Society is a not-for-profit organization 8 dedicated for more than 75 years to the protection and 9 management of our federal public lands. And I 10 appreciate the opportunity to speak today in support of 11 efforts to reduce methane emissions from the oil and gas 12 sector. 13 Methane emissions from oil and gas development 14 are a significant problem for health, the climate, and, 15when it comes to federal public lands, taxpayer 16 revenues. Currently more than 30 -- 36 million acres of 17 federal public lands and minerals are under a lease by 18 the oil and gas industry, and a total of 6 million acres 19 are in production. That production comes from more than 20 94,000 wells. And another 9 -- 5900 drilling permits 21have been approved and have not yet been drilled. 22 The venting, flaring, and fugitive leaks of 23methane associated with this potential development have 24 resulted in significant and costly waste of natural gas, 25 impairment of public health, and increased greenhouse

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 103 1 gas emissions. A recent report by ICF found that across 2 federal and tribal lands, oil and gas companies are 3 losing enough natural gas each year through leaks, 4 unintentional venting and flaring to equal nearly $330 5million at current market prices. That's enough natural 6 gas to meet the heating and cooking needs of 1.6 million 7 homes. And over a million tons of methane emitted from 8 oil and gas operations on federal and tribal lands in 9 2013. EPA has calculated that this much methane is 10 equal to the greenhouse gas pollution from 5.6 million 11 cars. 12 All told, between 2008 and 2013, venting and 13 flaring of methane from our nation's public lands and 14water increased by 51 percent. And without new rules to 15 address the problem, it will continue to increase. 16 Proper regulation and oversight is critical 17 for mitigating these impacts, and that's why we're glad 18 to see both EPA and the Bureau of Land Management moving 19 forward with rules to reduce methane emissions and 20 waste. And we hope that EPA and the BLM will continue 21 collaborating to ensure integrative, smart, thorough, 22 and effective regulations of methane emissions and 23 waste. 24 And we appreciate the Obama Administration's 25 focus on moving forward with guidelines on the oil and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 104 1 gas development, to stop the waste of the nation's 2 resources. 3 The regulations in front of us today are a 4 great start, but more needs to be done. So we hope to 5 see, one, EPA strengthen and finalize the rules of 6 methane emissions from the oil and gas sector; a new 7 rule from BLM to reduce natural gas waste on new and 8 existing sources; and the initiation of EPA guidelines 9 to reduce -- reduce methane emissions from existing 10 sources in the near future. 11 Thank you for having us here today and for 12 listening and for your hard work on moving forward with 13 these regulations. 14 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 15 Our next speaker will be Joe Salazar. 16 MR. SALAZAR: Good morning. 17 MR. GREEN: Good morning. 18 MR. SALAZAR: Shall I begin? 19 MR. GREEN: Yes, please. 20 MR. SALAZAR: Thank you very much. I'm State 21 Representative Joe Salazar. I represent Thornton and 22parts of Unincorporated Adams County. I want to thank 23you for being here today. I want to thank you just for 24being in your positions. I understand what it's like to 25be in tough positions, and sometimes praise as well as

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 105 1 disdain is heaped upon you, and I get that and I 2 appreciate you. 3 I heard some members of the industry come up 4 and talk about cost compliance and talk about the 5 fearful things that would happen here in the state of 6 Colorado and across the nation if the EPA enacts these 7 rules. And while I disagree with my friends on the side 8 of industry, one thing that happens here in the state of 9 Colorado is that if they're not trying to get you to 10 drink the fracking fluid to show how safe it is, they're 11 trying to get you to drink the Kool-Aid about tough 12 compliance. 13 And we heard that in 2014, when Colorado 14 adopted the most stringent rules on methane in the 15 nation. We heard them come up, talk about how the 16 apocalypse was going to happen, the sky was going to 17 fall, it's going to chase jobs away, the industry's 18 going to fold. And we've been hearing that for a number 19 of years now, and guess what? None of that is true. 20 And, in fact, the industry individuals who 21 came up here never told you that either today. They 22 didn't tell you that, after 2014, that Colorado's 23 economy continued to boom, that they're still making 24profits, and yet Colorado's air is a little bit easier 25 to breathe because of our rules.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 106 1 I could regale you with all sorts of data, and 2 I probably wouldn't do that because you know the data 3 better than I do. But I want to talk to you about what 4 we see happening here in Colorado, what we see which 5 precipitates such rules being enforced here in the state 6 of Colorado. 7 I went camping this weekend. I went to 8 Granby, beautiful place. I don't know if all of you are 9 from Colorado or not. But I went camping, woke up in 10 the morning and it was freezing cold, and walked outside 11my tent and saw the beautiful aspen trees. The leaves 12had just turned this beautiful vibrant gold. 13 And right behind these beautiful trees and 14 right behind these beautiful leaves was pine beetle 15 kill, all over the place, the same pine beetle kill that 16 I see when I drive to the Navajo Reservation once or 17 twice a month, going over Wolf Creek Pass, as a result 18 of climate change because of the warming of our 19 environment because of gases like methane. 20 And it made me sad because my family's been 21here a long time, both Spanish and indigenous sides. I 22 can trace my roots back to the late 1500s, early 1600s 23 on the Spanish side; about 25,000 years, the indigenous 24 side. And I've always taken great pains to be a good 25 caretaker of this state and fight for the environment,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 107 1 because fighting for the environment means that I'm 2 fighting for my constituents, I'm fighting for the 3 population, I'm fighting for my children. 4 I was fully in the support of the stringent 5methane, because that was a way that we could fight to 6 ensure that our kids would have good air to breathe. 7 Because, after all, isn't that what we're trying to do, 8 is we're trying to ensure that our children have good 9 air to breathe, clean water to drink, and to leave the 10 Earth a better place than what it was when we came here? 11 I was at a press conference a little while 12 ago, and one thing that I said, and I hold true to this, 13 is that you don't put profits over people and you don't 14put profits over the environment. We are better than 15 that, or we should be better than that. 16 I ask that the EPA adopt these rules. In 17 fact, I ask the EPA to adopt rules that are more 18 stringent than Colorado's. It's not going to result in 19 the apocalypse to the industry. They'll still make 20profits. But we'll know that we'll be protected. 21 Thank you very much. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. 23 Our next speakers will be Shakti and Paddy 24McClelland. Shakti will be first. 25 MS. SHAKTI: Does this work? My name is

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 108 1 Shakti. I am on the Lakewood City Council. I'm here 2 speaking on my own behalf, not on behalf of the City, 3 and speaking in support of these proposed regulations 4 and to encourage maybe strengthening them in certain 5 ways. 6 So I think the regulations are very important, 7 for a number of reasons. One has to do with the 8 frequency of extreme weather events. At the city level, 9 we are on the front lines when it comes to responding to 10 extreme weather events. In Lakewood we have recently 11 increased our funding for storm water and drainage and 12 emergency response, and that's in response to the -- the 13 weather patterns that we're seeing in Colorado. 14 The second reason has to do with air quality. 15And that has to do with our -- the fact that we're out 16 of compliance for ozone in this area, the -- just the 17 basics of we want to make sure we're preserving human 18 health. And also we want a pristine view of the 19mountains. That matters to us in Colorado. 20 So both of those -- these issues, can't 21 only -- we can't address them alone. And if we look at 22 the ozone, as an example, we already have methane rules 23 here; but on the high ozone days, more than half of the 24 ozone, models tell us, come in from other states. And 25 so it just reinforces the fact that we can't do this

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 109 1 alone and this is an area where it's appropriate to have 2 federal regulation. 3 The third reason is the protection of the 4 reputation of natural gas. To some extent natural gas 5 has a reputation of producing less greenhouse gases, and 6 it's important to maintain that reputation, to the 7 extent that it's true. And it's also important for 8 Colorado because it's an important industry in our 9 state. 10 And then the final one just has to do with a 11 sort of basic practicality. If we're going to be 12 drilling and getting methane, we should be using it to 13 heat homes and cook. 14 So I -- I support the regulations, and I think 15 that they should be strengthened, particularly in the 16ways that we see Colorado having already successfully 17 implemented regulations; and most importantly, to 18 include existing wells just because the impact of those 19 regulations will be so much greater. 20 So I thank you for your work and for the 21 opportunity to speak. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. McClelland. 23 MS. McCLELLAND: Hello. I'm Paddy McClelland. 24 I'm here with The Climate Reality Project but mostly 25 also with another group, called Wall of Women Colorado,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 110 1 and we're a group of mothers. I'm here as a mother 2 today, more than anything; a woman, a mother. I have 3 two young sons, who just headed off to college. 4 I'm a third-generation Coloradan. And so what 5 it was like in Colorado is, you know, the air was clean, 6 we didn't have to look at fracking wells and water 7 storage tanks. We could go in the mountains and go on 8 hikes and not worry about breathing. And that has 9 changed. What it was like is over. 10 I was here a year ago, at this same meeting, 11 and I think a lot has changed in a year. I think the 12 elephant in the living room is climate change, and we 13 all know it. 14 I started because my young son -- I'm going to 15 tell the polar bear thing. That makes a lot of people 16 annoyed, but I'm going to. When my boys were about 17 seven years old -- they're twins -- and we were watching 18 Planet Earth or something. And all of a sudden there 19 was a scene with a mother polar bear, and she hit their 20 little bottoms to run up the hill because the ice was 21 cracking behind her. 22 And I have twins too and so it kind of touched 23my heart in a way that other things don't. And, but my 24 son looked up at me, and he had tears just rolling down 25his face, and he said, "Mamma, what are we going to do

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 111 1 about it?" So that was my moment, that was my moment of 2 change. 3 Now I just want to say that, you know, it's 4 amazing to me because it's kind of insanity, another 5 study. And we all know it's happening. Always another 6 study, more information. We have a house burning down 7 now, and we all know it. Every scientific study, 8 everything that happens, we know our house is burning 9 down. And you know what? My children and your children 10 are in that house. 11 And I would just like to say, there's some 12 choices here. You're going to, you know, stand by and 13 just watch it burn? Are we going to sit there and just 14have a glass of wine or a cup of coffee and just pretend 15 it's not burning? Or are we going to try to stop it? 16 Or there's another thing: We could just throw a little 17more methane on it to make it happen quicker. So I just 18 contend, this is -- this is all wrong. Everybody in 19 this room knows it's wrong. 20 There's one more, beaver, story I want to tell 21you. When the beavers hear the water running in their 22home, they all rush out and try to find wood to fix the 23problem in the dam, because they know they're in 24 trouble. And I would contend, every person in this room 25hears the water running, and we need to decide.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 112 1 I'd like to just take the last ten seconds and 2 have everybody in this room think about, in 20 years, 3 what you're going to tell your children or grandchildren 4you did about this fire burning. Just a moment silence 5 for, like, ten seconds. 6 Thank you. 7 (Pause in the proceedings.) 8 MS. SHAKTI: Thank you all. 9 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you. 10 (Pause in the proceedings.) 11 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you. Our next 12 speakers are Su Ryden and Phillip Doe. 13 MS. RYDEN: Good morning. I'm Su Ryden. I'm 14 a state representative representing House District 36, 15which is east Aurora and east of Aurora. Most of my 16 constituents are in -- all of them are in Arapahoe 17 County at this point. 18 I've been working on issues in the legislature 19 on oil and gas issues for several years now. And I'm 20 sure it's already been said this morning, but I do want 21 to reemphasize that I feel we've done a lot of really 22 good work here in Colorado. In fact, in 2014, under 23 Governor Hickenlooper's leadership, we became the first 24 state in the nation to tackle methane emissions from the 25 oil and gas industry, and we're proud of the strength of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 113 1 our rules and the collaborative process that led to 2 their enactment. And I believe that it's actually given 3 the companies doing business in Colorado a competitive 4 edge in being able to adapt to any new regulations 5 nationwide. 6 So I would really encourage you to -- to at 7 least come to Colorado's level; and if you can, go as 8 far as beyond that as is practical and possible. 9 So that's mainly what I want to say, is I'm 10proud of what we've done here. Our -- our companies 11 that are operating here have told us that they feel that 12 they would be able to reach standards everywhere without 13 a lot of extra effort, since they've already done it 14here. 15 So thank you very much. 16 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Mr. Doe. 17 MR. DOE: Yes, my name is Phillip Doe. I'm 18 the environmental director for a grassroots organization 19 here in Colorado called Be the Change. Wes Wilson and 20my colleagues spoke earlier. He did all the heavy 21 lifting on the details of what we think some of the 22 limitations of this rulemaking is. 23 And let me say, before I go any further, that 24 I once was in charge of national rulemaking of the 25 federal lobby association of those rules and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 114 1 regulations, so while I have sympathy, I don't have a 2 lot. They're not throwing tomatoes at you. So that's 3 what they did to me. 4 First, I -- my hope had been that I could show 5 you some slides of FLIR camera work we did this spring 6 with Earthworks. Couldn't do that, but you can find 7 them on the Internet: May 2015 Front Range FLIR. Now, 8 keep in mind, they show you two views. They show you 9 the view you see without the flare camera, without the 10 infrared, and what you see afterwards. 11 Keep in mind that most -- all of those 12 operations, all of those fracking operations, are under 13 the state's air quality guidelines. They are shocking. 14 The amount of toxic gases we're introducing into the 15 atmosphere is simply shocking. So one of the things I 16would ask you to do is look at those. And think of it 17 as right that you also regulate existing oil and gas 18wells. 19 On to a larger subject, and that is the 20 leasing of public land to the oil and gas industry. 21 Several years ago, when we were very concerned about the 22 amount of land that was being leased, we did some 23 checking, and about 10 percent of the land in the state 24was already leased to the oil -- public land was leased 25 to the oil and gas industry.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 115 1 Estimates are out there that if President 2 Obama's rules, the Clean Air rules, are successful, 3 we'll reduce toxic emissions by about 5 gigatons by 4 2030. If we were to stop leasing the public -- public 5 lands in this country, offshore and on, we'd reduce the 6 toxic air emissions by 450 gigatons. 7 Now, that is something we can contend with. 8 And we think it should be done. And if it isn't done, I 9 think that the public will simply insist on it by 10 evermore forceful means. 11 I thank you for your attention. 12 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 13 All right. We seem to be out of scheduled 14 speakers, so is there anyone in the room that would like 15 to speak at this time? 16 All right. Well, we have three people 17 scheduled to speak that we're still waiting for, so I'll 18 keep the hearing open until we see if these folks show 19 up. If not, if somebody wants to speak in the meantime, 20please just let us know. 21 (Pause in the proceedings.) 22 MR. GREEN: All right. We do have a speaker, 23 so if you would introduce yourself, tell us who you are 24 and spell your name out for the court reporter, we'd 25 appreciate it. Thanks.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 116 1 MS. MILLS-BRIA: My name is Barbara 2 Mills-Bria. The last name is spelled M-i-l-l-s, dash, 3 B-r-i-a. And I just wanted to echo what my colleagues 4 from Be the Change have said about the oil and gas 5 industry and the methane emissions and what's going on 6 that we can't see, that we should be seeing, and how 7 harmful these gases are. 8 I feel like, if we could have trusted the oil 9 and gas industry a bit more, this would be easier for 10you. But they have not -- they've been disingenuous 11 through the years, either threatening to pull out or -- 12 or whatever. But, I mean, frankly, the Saudi Arabians 13 are affecting the bottom line more than any regulation. 14 The biggest industry in Colorado is the 15 recreational industry, so why are we not protecting that 16 as stringently as possible, instead of the boom-and-bust 17 oil and gas industry? 18 So thank you very much. 19 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Anyone else? Come on 20 up. 21 MS. LANDA-POSAN: Hello. So my name is 22 Griselda, and that's spelled G-r-i-s-e-l-d-a. My last 23 name is Landa-Posan; L-a-n-d-a, hyphen, P-o-s-a-n. So I 24 am a student at CSU. I'm currently studying wildlife 25 and conservation biology, and I'm actually here with --

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 117 1 to protect our future as well as representing ACSU, 2 which is the student government at CSU. 3 So, first of all, thank you very much for this 4 opportunity. I just want to let you know, I've got to 5 speak on behalf of all my students. At CSU we are all 6 very passionate about protecting our environment. And 7 we think that what you're doing, taking these steps to 8 help protect our environment from methane gas and things 9 like that, is very, very important. 10 But something that we feel is a big issue is 11 the fact that this will only cover new and modified 12 infrastructure, even while existing sources are, by far, 13 the major source of the problem. So some studies have 14 shown that by 2018, nearly 90 percent of all methane 15 emissions in the oil and gas sector will actually come 16 from sources that now exist, which aren't covered by 17 this proposal. So I just feel like that's something 18 that's really important to keep in mind and always 19 strive to do better. 20 Thank you so much for what you're doing, but 21we can always try harder for the coming generations. 22 I'm sure you all have people you love, that are younger, 23 so just do everything -- everything you do, just do with 24passion and love, and we can -- we can make a 25 difference.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 118 1 Thank you. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. 3 Come on up. If you would give us your name 4 and spell it out for us, we'd appreciate that. 5 MS. JOHANNES: Yeah, it's Meriam, M-e-r -- 6 MR. GREEN: Use the microphone, please. 7 MS. JOHANNES: Oh, sorry. M-e-r-i-a-m; and 8 it's Johannes, J-o-h-a-n-n-e-s. 9 And I guess my point of view is, I work in a 10pediatric office in Lakewood. We have a very large 11Medicaid population, and kind of looking at, you know, 12 there's always a cost; whether one way or the other, 13 someone pays. And we have a lot of patients who come in 14with asthma-related illnesses. I just kind of looked 15 up, real fast, the facts. Medicaid spends $60 on every 16person on Medicaid to pay for respiratory medicines and 17 care. The increase in asthma, I think, is not quite 18 10 percent, maybe 7 or 8 percent overall. 19 And every year we have kids that come into the 20 office, very low oxygen, very sick, and they go out in 21 ambulances. And a lot of it is because people with 22private health insurance, they're affected as well. If 23you have a child and you're very worried that you have a 24 $500 bill to go to the emergency room, you tend to go to 25 the doctor more. And so those kids go out very sick,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 119 1 and then we add on an ambulance cost. 2 So I just kind of wanted to point that out, 3 because it's very sad when you see that, you know, up 4 close. 5 Thanks. 6 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. And just so 7 you know, when we do our cost benefit analysis that we 8 do with every rule, we take this type of thing into 9 effect and we calculate the costs and the benefits of 10 that. So thank you for your comments. 11 MS. JOHANNES: Thank you. 12 MR. GREEN: Sure, come on up. Did one of you 13 want to speak as well? Do you want to speak? 14 MS. GELFUSO GOETZ: Yes. 15 MR. GREEN: Okay. Come up. 16 MS. GELFUSO GOETZ: Do I need a mike? 17 MR. GREEN: Pardon me? Yes, please, use the 18mic. 19 MS. GELFUSO GOETZ: That one? 20 MR. GREEN: Yep. All right. If you would, 21your name, and spell it out for us. 22 MS. GELFUSO GOETZ: My name is Andrea Gelfuso, 23 G-e-l-f-u-s-o, Goetz. I teach environmental law at the 24University of Denver. I taught the Clean Air Act last 25 night, and I'm sorry I didn't have my students come with

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 120 1me today. But you've heard from a lot of good public 2 speakers, because they're members of the public who are 3 concerned and we know the environmental and the health 4 impacts of uncontrolled methane. 5 I worked for the Department of Interior. I 6 studied BLM in oil and gas cases. I remember when 7 industry said that horizontal drilling would put them 8 out of business. So that's a common refrain from 9 industry. Colorado passed the toughest methane rules in 10 the country. That hasn't put the oil and gas industry 11 out of work. It's overproduction. So that isn't the 12problem. It's not the methane rules; we understand 13 that. Colorado has the toughest methane rules in the 14 country, but because of transboundary pollution, 15 Colorado already has a -- has an ozone issue. 16 Colorado took the lead in these methane rules. 17 EPA really needs to help out states that are working 18 hard to improve air quality, who are trying to comply 19 with the Clean Air Act and trying to protect public 20 health. Colorado was a leader. EPA can be a leader for 21 the nation and raise the bar, which will protect public 22health and the environment. 23 So I -- and I think we really do. 47,000 oil 24 and gas wells just in Colorado. Those are the existing 25 ones. We need to work on, you have to -- you have to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 121 1 regulate existing as well as the new wells. 2 Thank you very much for your time. 3 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Go ahead. 4 MS. SILVER: Hi. My name is Kelsey Silver. 5 That's K-e-l-s-e-y, S-i-l-v-e-r. And I'm a student at 6 Colorado State University, and I'm here to show the 7 effects -- the effects of methane to everyone. I'm here 8 to defend our future. And I'm concerned because I 9 consider this an invisible oil spill, and -- and 10 currently there are no existing source rules for current 11 oil and gas companies. 12 Colorado's extremely important to me, and I 13plan on living here for a very long time. And while I 14understand that there are many health benefits 15 associated with this rule -- or I understand that there 16 are, so I really appreciate your work. I do have 17 asthma, and I know very -- of a lot of people at my age 18 that do have it as well. 19 So I thank you for your work, and keep it up. 20 Thank you. 21 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 22 All right. We do have a speaker, Rudy 23 Gonzales. 24 Is there anyone else that would like to speak? 25We're going to break for lunch after Mr. Gonzales, so if

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 122 1 there's anyone else that would like to speak, this is 2 your chance. 3 All right. It's all yours. 4 MR. GONZALES: Hello, good morning. My name 5 is Rudy Gonzales, Rudolph Gonzales, G-o-n-z-a-l-e-s. 6 I'm the executive director for Servicio de la Raza, 7 Services for the People, which is a now 43-year-old 8 human service nonprofit serving metro Denver and, some 9 areas of our work, across Colorado. 10 And I'm here today as a member of the Latino 11population, and I prefer to be called Chicano. And, you 12 know, I was a native of Denver, an extreme native of 13 Colorado, born here in Colorado. And I want to talk 14 about, a little bit about, the issues that methane gas 15has caused in our community and with our children, our 16youth. 17 You know, I -- I have -- I have 15 nieces and 18 nephews, and that includes great-nieces and nephews. 19 Ten of those nieces and nephews suffer from asthma. I 20 remember, I have six sisters and a brother, and we were 21part of the great "baby boomer" generation, and none of 22 us have asthma. I have developed allergies in my late 23 40s; I'm now 57 years old. But born, we -- none of us 24had asthma. I had one cousin, out of about 200, that 25had asthma. And now it seems that, more and more, and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 123 1 very indicative of my nieces and nephews, 10 out of 15. 2 That's 20 percent right there, in that little sample 3 group, that have serious problems with asthma. 4 And so it really is affecting the health of 5 the Latino population in this country, these kind of 6 issues. And we think about where we work, most of us 7 work in outside industries. That is even more alarming, 8 the fact that, you know, we're seeing over 7 million 9 tons of methane, which is 80 percent more dangerous, 10 emitted into our atmosphere. 11 And in the next, what, decade, that should 12 increase by 25 percent? That's untenable. That's 13 unacceptable, especially in this country, especially 14with our population. Because we're -- you know, we 15 constitute most of the poverty in this country, along 16with the African American population. And when you look 17 at poverty, we don't have the support systems, we don't 18 have the high-level health insurance and health care. 19 In fact, we oftentimes cannot even access health care. 20 And so where does that leave us? To suffer in 21 silence, to suffer, and with degenerative health 22 conditions. That's unacceptable in our community. So I 23 urge the EPA to continue to do that work to ensure that 24 this country and this -- and our air is healthy for 25 our generations to come and for ourselves.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 124 1 You know, we talk about oil and gas and, as 2 every industry in this country and this country, 3 obviously capitalism is profit driven, unfortunately. 4And it's about profit, and it's always a cost 5 compliance: If we have to do this, it's going to cost 6 us more. Well, so what? Our people, each of you, each 7 of us, is just as important as any dollar. 8 So I would -- I would, you know, thank the EPA 9 for enforcing and continue to monitor and increase, you 10 know, regulations on this industry and help us to 11 decrease the emissions of methane in our environment, in 12 our air. 13 Thank you. 14 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Gonzales. 15 All right. We've got one more. All right. 16 We have Alex Renirie. I know I didn't say that right. 17 MS. RENIRIE: I was going to say, does the 18pronunciation help? Okay. 19 MR. GREEN: Okay. 20 MS. RENIRIE: Thank you so much for holding 21 this today. Is this working? Should I hold the other 22 one? 23 MR. GREEN: Try that one. 24 MS. RENIRIE: Okay. Hello. My name is Alex 25 Renirie, and I work for the Sierra Club in Santa Fe, New

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 125 1 Mexico, just a few hours south of the methane hot spots 2 in the Four Corners region that's recently drawn 3 national attention. 4 I've heard the stories of communities most 5 affected by rapidly expanding oil and gas operations in 6 our state, and I'm horrified by the damage this industry 7 is inflicting on our people and our climate. 8 New Mexico oil and gas produced over 250,000 9 metric tons of methane in 2013, triggering inescapable 10 damage to our health and our climate in New Mexico. One 11 in four of New Mexico high school students have asthma, 12which is much higher than the national rate. And in 13 2013 two counties had a combined 16 days that exceeded 14 the national ozone standards, further exacerbating these 15 kids' diseases. Our state has also experienced 16 record-breaking wildfires and droughts in recent years 17 as a result of our warming planet. 18 As a toxic pollutant and one of the most 19potent greenhouse gases, as we all know, there's no 20 excuse not to act aggressively to cut methane emissions 21 if we want to avoid the most devastating impacts of 22 climate change. 23 Occasionally, when I start to lose sight of 24what climate change actually means and the realities 25 that we're up against, I go back to this vivid

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 126 1 description that Arthur -- author Mark Lynas wrote about 2 what our world would actually look like at 4 degrees 3 Celcius of warming, a number that, climate scientists 4 agree, that we're already swiftly approaching. 5 "He pored over tens of thousands of scientific 6 papers that used advanced computer modeling . . . [and] 7 studies of geologic records," and paints the following 8 ominous picture: 9 Once upon a time by midcentury 10 Earth is becoming unrecognizable. With 11 seas 3 to 4 feet higher and rising 12 faster, parts of low-lying coastal 13 cities worldwide are periodically 14 underwater, including Boston, New York, 15 and the islands formerly known as the 16 United Kingdom. 17 The major project in the U.S. is 18 moving 150 million coastal city dwellers 19 inland, but interior cities are balking 20 at the unbearable strain of millions of 21 more climate refugees. 22 Savage temperatures dominate, 23 hotter than anything in our species' 24 evolutionary history. 25 Food production is crashing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 127 1 worldwide and water shortages are 2 chronic. The 60 percent of the world's 3 population whose crops depended on the 4 failing -- failing Asian summer monsoon 5 are starving and thirsting. 6 Climate chaos has put nuclear-armed 7 India, Pakistan, and China on a hair 8 trigger. 9 The world is truly unraveling. 10 Megadroughts. 11 New category 6 hurricanes called 12 "hypercanes." 13 Mass starvation. Cascading 14 economic crises. 15 Failed states. 16 Entire populations fleeing the 17 tropics toward northern climates. 18 Stretched beyond adaptation, it's a 19 civilization in fast-forward collapse, 20 [he writes]. 21 But really the deal was sealed when 22 the climate crossed the bright line of 23 2 degrees Celsius and self-reinforcing 24 positive feedback loops triggered 25 runaway change.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 128 1 By the time 3 degrees inexorably 2 triggered 4, then 5, then 6, Earth 3 resembles the "Mother of All Disasters" 4 that occurred 250 million years ago when 5 95 percent of all terrestrial and marine 6 species went extinct. Adaptation takes 7 time; but with climate change, speed 8 kills. 9 Now, this is not an exaggeration and this is 10 not the future. We already see it happening. And you 11hold one of the keys to preventing this crisis. You 12have the moral imperative to lessen the damage caused by 13 a too powerful oil and gas industry in this country, and 14 these rules don't go nearly far enough to mitigate 15 emissions and slow warming. 16 We demand that you take steps to 17 immediately -- immediately to extend these rules to 18 cover existing sources of methane, which account for 19 90 percent of current emissions. I'm counting on you to 20 be bold and use your power to do what unquestionably 21 needs to be done: Slash greenhouse gas emissions 22 aggressively and immediately. And as a young person, I 23 sincerely fear the alternative. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 129 1 All right. We have one more speaker. And I 2 know I can't pronounce this one correctly. It's Dulce 3 Saenz. 4 MS. SAENZ: Very nice. Nice job. 5 Good morning. My name is Dulce Saenz, and I 6 grew up in Hudson, Colorado, after immigrating from 7 Mexico at the age of two. 8 I'm the director of Protogete: Our Air, Our 9 Health, a program of Conservation Colorado aimed at 10 elevating the voices of Latinos in the climate fight. 11 I'm here today as a member of this country's diverse 12 Latino population and as one in five Coloradans who are 13 Latino, to support the EPA's proposed methane pollution 14 standards for the oil and gas industry. 15 The most vulnerable people in our society are 16 oftentimes the most impacted by environmental 17 injustices; our elderly, our children, our low-income 18 communities and communities of color. 19 Latinos specifically are disproportionately 20 affected by poor air quality, suffering higher rates of 21 chronic ailments like asthma. Latinos are three times 22more likely to die from asthma than any other ethnic 23 group in the U.S. 68 percent of Latinos in Colorado 24 live in counties that violate federal smog standards, 25 and 39 percent of Latinos live within 30 miles of a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 130 1 power plant. 2 Methane is the most significant driver of 3 climate change in the near term, with an impact on 4 climate change over 80 times as potent as carbon dioxide 5 in a 20-year period. Oil and gas companies emit 6 7 million tons of methane from their operations each 7 year, the equivalent of 160 coal-fired power plants. 8 These emissions are expected to increase 25 percent in 9 the next decade if nothing is done. 10 Unfortunately, in the U.S. and here in 11 Colorado, Latino communities are among the first and 12worst impacted by climate change and unhealthy air 13 quality that is worsened by methane pollution. Many 14 Latinos live in the country's most air-polluted cities 15 and as methane pollution and climate change make our air 16 quality worse, our families' health gets worse. 17 Already 14 percent of Latino children have 18 received an asthma diagnosis, and they are 40 percent 19more likely to die from their condition than are 20 nonLatino white children. 21 Also problematic, most of the global warming 22we see in our lifetimes is driven by methane pollution, 23 and Latino communities face greater threats from climate 24 change because of where we work. For example, 25 climate-exacerbated extreme heat increases the risk of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 131 1 Latinos, who make up one in four workers in the outdoor 2 industries of construction and agriculture. 3 Our communities also face serious challenges 4 to resilience, the ability to bounce back after a 5 climate-related disaster like the unusually strong 6 wildfires and floods we have seen across the Western 7 U.S. in recent years, because one in four Latinos live 8 under the poverty line. 9 That's why addressing methane pollution is so 10 important. And solutions for cutting methane emissions 11 are not only readily available, they are also highly 12 cost effective and will help save a valuable American 13 energy source. This is a win-win situation for Latinos 14 and for all Americans, protecting our health, saving 15 energy, and helping address climate change. 16 The Administration pledged to cut methane 17 emissions from the oil and gas sector 40 to 45 percent 18 over the next ten years. So while EPA's proposal is a 19 critical first step towards meeting this national goal, 20 it must include the best practices we know to help 21 achieve the needed reductions. 22 Looking forward, we encourage and expect EPA 23 to tackle the biggest problem of our -- the biggest part 24 of the problem: methane emissions from wells, pipelines 25 and facilities and operations that are currently in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 132 1 existence. Already Colorado is among a handful of 2 states blazing a trail to reduce methane emissions 3 quickly and effectively, and EPA'S proposals need to be 4 strengthened to be at least as protected as the policies 5 adopted by Colorado, Wyoming, and Ohio. 6 We look forward to seeing the strongest 7 possible methane standards finalized, alongside a rule 8 to limit methane pollution from existing sources, to 9 achieve the full reductions to methane emissions that 10 were pledged. 11 Thank you for the opportunity to comment. 12 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Before you 13 step down, will you spell your name for the court 14 reporter. 15 MS. SAENZ: Dulce, D-u-l-c-e; Saenz, 16 S-a-e-n-z. 17 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. 18 Okay. At this time I'm going to put the 19 hearing in recess. We'll resume at 1:00 o'clock sharp. 20 Thank you very much. 21 (The hearing was in recess from 12:00 p.m. to 22 1:01 p.m.) 23 MR. GREEN: I'm going to go ahead and open the 24public hearing back up. We're still waiting for one of 25 our panelists, so I'm going to open it up. If she shows

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 133 1 up, we'll start listening to testimony again. I'm going 2 to start by reading the same statement that I read this 3 morning, to open it back up again. 4 So good afternoon. My name is Greg Green, and 5 I'm the chair for today's public hearing, and I'd like 6 to thank everybody for coming today. Joining me on the 7 panel today are Cheryl Vetter from the Office of Air 8 Quality Planning and Standards; Amy Hambrick, also from 9 the Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards; and 10 Monica Morales from Region 8. 11 We're here today to hear your comments on the 12 EPA's proposed rules relating to the oil and natural gas 13 sector. The specific rules are: 14 Oil and Natural Gas Sector: Emission Standards 15 for New and Modified Sources; 16 Source Determination for Certain Emissions 17Units in the Oil and Natural Gas Sector; 18 Review of New Sources and Modifications in 19 Indian Country: Federal Implementation Plan for 20 Managing Air Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged 21 in Oil and Natural Gas Production in Indian Country. 22 The EPA Administrator signed the proposed 23 rules on August 18, 2015. 24 The proposed New Source Performance Standards 25would establish methane and VOC standards for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 134 1 hydraulically fractured wells and require owners and 2 operators to find and repair leaks. The proposed rule 3 would also extend emission reduction requirements 4 further downstream, covering the equipment in the 5 natural gas transmission and storage segments of the 6 industry that was not regulated in the Agency's 2012 7 rules. 8 The proposed Source Determination Rule 9 clarifies the EPA's air permitting rules as they apply 10 to the oil and natural gas industry. 11 We're also taking comment on the proposed 12 federal implementation plan to implement the Federal 13 Minor New Source Review Program in the Indian Country 14 for oil and natural gas production. That plan, known as 15 a FIP, would be used instead of site-specific Minor New 16 Source Review preconstruction permits in Indian Country. 17 It would incorporate emissions limits and 18 other requirements from six EPA emissions standards, 19 including the 2015 proposed updates to the New Source 20 Performance Standards on which we are taking comment 21 today. 22 If you would like more details on the proposed 23 rules, there are fact sheets available at the 24 registration desk. 25 Before we get started, I'd like to go through

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 135 1 a few housekeeping items and ground rules that will help 2make today's hearing run smoother. 3 First, please be sure that you have checked in 4 at the registration desk, even if you're not planning to 5 speak today. And if you signed up to speak online or by 6 phone but haven't told us that you're here, please step 7 up to the registration desk and let the EPA staff know 8 that you've arrived. 9 I will call speakers up in pairs. When your 10 name is called, please come to the speakers' table at 11 the front of the room. 12 When I call on you to speak, please state your 13 name and spell it for the court reporter. Your comments 14will be transcribed and included in the record of 15 comments on the proposed rule. 16 It is very important to us that you tell us 17which rule or rules you are speaking about. 18 Each speaker will have five minutes to give 19 comments. We have a timer light to help you know how 20much time you have left to speak. 21 When the light turns from green to yellow, 22 that means you have one minute remaining; when it turns 23 red, that's the signal that you are at five minutes and 24 it is time to stop. 25 When you are finished speaking, please remain

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 136 1 at the table until the person next to you has completed 2 his or her testimony. 3 We are here to listen to you today; however, a 4panel member may ask questions to clarify your comments. 5 I will then call up the next pair of speakers 6 and so on. 7 If you have brought a written copy of your 8 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 9 registration desk before you leave today. We will put 10 any written comments submitted today in the official 11 docket for the proposed rules. 12 We also have comment cards available at the 13 registration desk. If you would like to submit 14 additional written comments, please do so. 15 If you want to comment in writing later, 16 stop by the materials table near the registration desk 17 and pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 18written comments. Comments must be received by 19November 17, 2015. 20 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as much 21 consideration to comments we receive in writing as we do 22 to comments we receive at public hearings like this one. 23 So if you have more comments that you 24would like to provide the EPA, please submit them by the 25 comment period deadline. Your comments will be

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 137 1 reviewed. 2 If you have any questions during the day, 3 please see the staff at the registration desk, and 4 someone will assist you. 5 Thank you again for taking the time today to 6 share your comments on EPA's proposal. And with that, 7 we'll get started. 8 Our first two people from the afternoon are 9 Anne Harper and Eric Huber. And please don't forget to 10 tell us which rules you're commenting on. Thank you. 11 MS. HARPER: Do I have to do anything here? 12 MR. GREEN: It should be turned on. Hold 13your -- hold your speaker up to your -- 14 MS. HARPER: Can you hear? 15 MR. GREEN: There's a microphone at the end of 16 the cord. 17 MS. HARPER: Oh, it's at the end of the cord? 18 You can see how much I know about this. 19 MR. GREEN: There you go. 20 MS. HARPER: Okay. 21 MR. GREEN: So you if you give your name and 22 spell it out for the court reporter, that would be 23 great. 24 MS. HARPER: Okay. I'm Anne, Anne Harper; 25A-n-n-e, H-a-r-p-e-r. And I'm here today -- I am not

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 138 1 being paid to come here, and I think that's significant, 2 because I have been a resident of Colorado for 50 years, 3 more than 50 years. And I just want to thank you for 4 coming here. And it's a small sign that there's still 5 some democracy left in America that the public is 6 allowed to speak. 7 And I would like to just say, for some 8 perspective, that anybody who comes and sits in these 9 seats that is being paid, I think that's not what the 10point of this is. I think the point of this is to 11 listen to people who understand the threat of methane in 12 our environment, in Colorado, in America, and in the 13 world, and that we citizens of Colorado care. And I 14have noticed a humongous difference in the air quality 15 in this state since I was a little child. 16 And I know that the thing that compelled me to 17 come here today is because my home, which is on the 18 border of Boulder and Weld County -- I'm in the half -- 19 a half-mile into the Weld County side, which is a 20 free-for-all for the oil and gas industry. Even with 21 the COGCC rules in place, in 2006 the EPA, 22 unfortunately, allowed the oil and gas hydrofracturing 23 to be exempt, basically exempt, from the water quality 24 and air quality standards. 25 And what is happening to us is, we had a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 139 1 little bit of fracking around our house, with small 2 units. And during the inversions, we have a huge issue 3 of white air around our home and all the valley in Weld 4 County. I see it. It's a place that barely has 5 anything else going on in it, and it is polluted. And 6 the air during inversions, absolutely toxic. Sometimes 7 it's so bad, I can't believe it. 8 And last November I found out that two 12-well 9 sites are being planned within 1500 feet of our house, 10 and I have been in a battle with the COGCC since then. 11 I am not being protected by the COGCC. They are 12 completely embedded with the industry, the oil and gas 13 industry, who, I'm sure, you'll hear from many times 14 today, because they have just one goal, and that is to 15make money. They do not care about us, the people of 16 Colorado, the people of the United States. They do not 17 care. 18 I have seen it numerous times. I go to all 19 the COGCC hearings. I went to a neighborhood meeting. 20 I am educated about the subject, and I have not -- I am 21 dismayed. I am absolutely dismayed at the way the COGCC 22has treated us as a community. We're a small 23 agricultural community, and we do not want 24 new wells 24with the humongous facility sites. 25 The EPA standards are not strict enough, no

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 140 1matter what. No way. There should be two -- these are 2major petrochemical plants near our home. There is no 3 way. And there are numerous citizens all over the state 4 of Colorado who are very, very concerned about this 5 issue. I am one. There are 200 people outside right 6 now, fighting for -- for the rights for the citizens and 7 communities to not have methane in their house. 8 So much methane comes out when you're first 9 fracking those wells, and it's all going to be in our 10 house. We won't be able to open our doors for 11 14 months. And the fracking is 14 -- I mean, there's so 12many issues, and the industry likes to call them 13 nuisances, and that's -- that's just plain insane. It's 14more than a nuisance. It's a lifestyle change. 15 Not only that, the 117,000 truck trips that 16would be involved near our home, 50,000 of them would be 17made 25 feet from our house. We bought a house in the 18 country; bucolic, beautiful place. They are unwelcome. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Mr. Huber. 21 MR. HUBER: Can you hear me all right without 22 this? Use the mic? Hi. My name's Eric -- is this on? 23 MS. HAMBRICK: The other one. 24 MR. HUBER: Now you can hear me. Hi, my 25 name's Eric Huber. I'm the senior managing attorney for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 141 1 the Sierra Club in Boulder Colorado, and I also live in 2 Boulder, near Weld County, which you just heard about 3 from the previous speaker and have probably heard about 4 a lot this morning, because it's a real case study in 5 what's happening here and why EPA's action is important 6 to us. It exemplifies what's happening up and down the 7 Front Range. 8 And I realize this is a national rule and this 9 is a multistate hearing, but Weld County is sort of the 10poster child, if you will, for the fracking boom and 11what's happening. There are 18,000 wells or more in 12 Weld County, which includes -- Weld County's a rural 13 area just northeast of here, but has some small cities 14 like Greeley, Windsor, and Erie, and the state setbacks 15 are 500 feet from residential areas. 16 And that is a lot of the -- the conflict 17 that's coming, and between the state and the industry, 18 and that's why it's so important to everyone that the 19 federal government come in and put controls on the -- on 20 this industry and enforce them. 21 Industry likes to say, Well, let us self22police. The state says, We have the strongest methane 23 rules in the country, we'll take care of it. Well, 24 Longmont, Colorado, which is a small town that sits on 25 the border of Weld County and Boulder County, tried to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 142 1 put in rules to increase the setbacks just a little bit, 2 and they were sued by the State and by the industry 3 both. 4 And so that's what we're up against, is the 5 State and the industry acting in concert against the 6 local governments and against the citizens trying to 7 protect themselves from this pollution. 8 Now, I know that this is a very technical rule 9 on methane emissions. But according to EPA's website, 10 controlling the methane emissions also controls the VOC 11 emissions and the toxics and, hence, all of the impacts 12 that people are experiencing from that, you know, the -- 13 MR. GREEN: Mr. Huber, if could you use the 14microphone, then that would be great. Thanks. 15 MR. HUBER: Okay. So what does all this have 16 to do with EPA's methane rule? So the methane rule sets 17 limits on both methane and VOCs. Capturing methane 18 emissions also captures these VOC emissions and the 19 toxics that the people are objecting to. 20 And there's also a direct link between methane 21 and ozone and health impacts, and methane is a precursor 22 to ozone. And there was a study in 2013 by the 23 University of Colorado that the ozone levels in Erie and 24Weld County, and the VOC levels, the unhealthy ground 25 levels of ozone in Erie, was all due to oil and gas

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 143 1 operations. So regulating the methane is going to 2 address the everyday problems these people are facing. 3 So we appreciate what EPA is doing, and we ask 4 for the strongest possible methane rule from EPA, and to 5 strengthen them in these four ways: 6 We ask you to expand the scope of the 7 standards, because not all of these operations are 8 covered. So we want to cover unloading operations, 9 controllers, compressors, everything; 10 Strengthen the standards for leak repair so 11 that you get all fugitive emissions and don't skip any 12 surveys; 13 Ensure that the oil and gas companies capture 14 all possible gas to reduce flaring; and 15 At some point regulate the existing sources. 16 I believe this rule is all new and future sources, and 17 that's good. But we need to do something about the 18 existing sources too, because by 2018 nearly 90 percent 19 of all methane emissions will come from sources now in 20 existence. 21 So that's all I have to say today, and thank 22you for listening. 23 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Huber. 24 Our next speakers will be Josh Joswick and 25 Eric Waeckerlin. Please don't forget to tell us which

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 144 1 rules you're speaking regarding. And we ask that both 2 parties stay up there until both people have testified. 3 MR. JOSWICK: There is just one microphone 4 that's working? 5 MR. GREEN: Just one of them's working. 6 MR. JOSWICK: Is this it? 7 MR. GREEN: Yeah. 8 MR. JOSWICK: I guess it is. I'm Josh 9 Joswick. It's J-o-s-h, J-o-s-w-i-c-k. I'm here to 10 testify on NSPS Quad Oa. 11 Josh Joswick, I live in southwest Colorado, 12 and that means that I live under the largest methane 13 cloud in the U.S. And it also means that I drove more 14 than six hours to get here. And, six hours, you have 15 some time to think. And I was thinking about that I 16 honestly couldn't tell you how many times I've done 17 this, in terms of testifying before in a rulemaking 18 legislative hearing geared toward holding the oil and 19 gas industry accountable for the impacts its -- its 20 actions create. 21 As county commissioner, a mayor, a private 22 citizen, as a community organizer for over 25 years, 23 I've testified on how imperative it is to control this 24 arrogant juggernaut. Sometimes people who are holding 25 these hearings listen, and I hope you will.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 145 1 First, I want to thank you. I want to thank 2 the EPA for doing something that's long overdue. This 3 rulemaking is an acknowledgment that there's a problem 4 out there that needs to be addressed through -- and 5 here, I apologize for using some coarse language -- 6 regulation. What the industry is spewing into our air 7 should not be spewed into our air, and the proposals -- 8 and your proposals start to address that. But they need 9 to go farther. And the one thing that's standing in the 10 way of their going farther is, of course, the industry. 11 In those 25 years that I have been testifying, 12 I have come to count on one sure thing, and that's the 13 industry's mantra that any proposed regulations or rules 14will create too great a financial burden for the 15 industry to be viable; and if any proposed rules are 16 adopted, it will leave the state that is proposing those 17 rules. Simply put, those are lies, and the industry is 18very adept as saying them. Rules have been adopted. 19 The industry has never suffered from any of those rules, 20 regulations, or legislation here in Colorado, and it 21won't suffer if the EPA adopts meaningful rules. 22 I was in a meeting once where this industry 23 truth-teller actually came out with one of the more 24honest industry positions that I have ever heard on 25health matters. It was said, during a discussion of --

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 146 1 on populations that are susceptible to air-pollution2 caused asthma, and that's young children and the 3 elderly and the infirm -- this guy said, and I quote, 4 What's a little asthma? 5 As disappointing as it was to hear that, it 6 was good to hear it, because that confirmed what we knew 7 all along, that that was the true industry view of its 8 impacts and its responsibilities for them: What's a 9 little asthma? Perhaps the truest thing I've ever heard 10 the industry say, and the closest they have ever come to 11 owning their total disregard for the damage they bring 12 to our communities. 13 If you go into the dictionary, it's surprising 14how many definitions of "victim" you'll find, but 15 nowhere will you find the definition: Victim, the 16world's most powerful industry, upon being subjected to 17methane emission regulations. 18 Yet that's the claim that industry makes for 19 what the EPA is proposing: The industry, victim of an 20 out-of-control bureaucracy hellbent on regulating it out 21 of the country. 22 That claim is a perversion. There are victims 23 here, and it's not the industry. The victims are the 24people who have to breathe the air the industry fouls. 25 But what's a little asthma? The EPA can actually do

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 147 1 something about that, and that would be to strengthen 2 its draft rules. 3 There's another industry perversion being 4 offered here, and that is, wrapping the flag around 5 domestic production and claiming minimalist regulation 6 or even self-regulation are for the greater good because 7 that promotes energy independence. Everyone here knows 8 this is not about energy independence, it's about bottom 9 lines. Here in Colorado where we adopted methane 10 emission regulations, the industry is thriving. No 11matter how stringent the rules are that you adopt, 12 operators will continue to do just fine. They know 13 that, yet claim otherwise, and that is a falsehood. And 14 that's what you can call them on. 15 Please enact rules that mean something. What 16 the industry spews into our air harms us. There's no 17 contesting that. All the industry has is a false 18 economic argument, and that cannot be the basis for 19 rules that mean anything. These rules that you have 20proposed are a good start, but you can make them 21 stronger, and they need to apply to all facilities, 22 existing and prospective. 23 And if you are going to adopt rules, please 24 enforce them. Don't go through this whole thing and 25 then just let them lie.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 148 1 Thank you very much for being here today. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Joswick. 3 Mr. Waeckerlin. 4 MR. WAECKERLIN: My name is Eric Waeckerlin; 5 E-r-i-c, last name is W-a-e-c-k-e-r-l-i-n. I'm here as 6 a resident of Colorado, a Westerner, and a proud father 7 of a nine-year-old daughter. My comments today are made 8 on behalf of the Western Energy Alliance and its 9 members. 10 The Alliance appreciates EPA holding this 11hearing and providing stakeholders with the opportunity 12 to comment. We are confident that EPA will carefully 13 consider the concerns raised by some of the proposed 14 rulemaking package provisions, and we look forward to 15working constructively with the Agency prior to 16 finalization of the rule. My comments today will be 17 largely directed at the NSPS Quad O, Rule a. 18 The Alliance represents over 450 companies 19 engaged in all aspects of environmentally responsible 20 exploration and production of oil and natural gas across 21 the West. The majority of its members are independent 22producers, small business with an average of 23 15 employees. Because of the Alliance's demographic, 24 the regulatory burdens imposed by the recent onslaught 25 of federal and state regulations have had a particularly

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 149 1 acute impact. In this extremely challenging price 2 environment, the Alliance strongly encourages the EPA to 3 carefully consider not only the cost and burdens 4 associated with NSPS Quad O, Rule a, and the rest of 5 this rulemaking package, but also the cumulative impacts 6 from all the various rulemakings, either ongoing or 7 pending. This includes the 2012 NSPS, which is just now 8 being implemented, the BLM venting and flaring rule, the 9 upcoming new ozone standard, and the myriad non-air10 quality federal rulemakings such as the BLM hydraulic 11 fracturing rules and ongoing issues surrounding access 12 to public lands and overly stringent resource management 13plans. There's also significant regulatory activity 14 facing the Alliance's members at the state level, 15 including air quality rulemakings in Colorado and Utah. 16 In short, the current regulatory and price 17 environment is posing substantial concerns for the 18western oil and natural gas industry, and the Alliance 19 urges EPA to narrowly tailor this and future regulations 20 with this operating environment in mind. 21 With respect to the NSPS amendment, while the 22Alliance is still reviewing the voluminous materials 23 associated with this rule, we have identified several 24 initial concerns that I would like to focus on. First, 25 as a threshold matter, the Alliance will need more time

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 150 1 to review and comment on these rules and is asking for a 2 60-day extension to do so. 3 Second, the amendments are characterized as 4 setting standards for both VOC and methane emissions 5 across the source category; in many respects, however, 6 it appears that EPA has duplicated much of what was done 7 in the 2012 NSPS and subsequent reconsiderations. 8 For example, the new rules establish methane 9 standards for many pieces of equipment already regulated 10 for VOCs; yet at the same time, EPA has found that the 11best systems of -- best system of emissions reductions 12 for methane is the same as it is for VOCs. Thus we 13 question whether many of the methane benefits being 14 advertised have been and are already being captured 15 through existing VOC controls. In fact, in the 2015 GHG 16 inventory, EPA expressly states that the 2012 NSPS are 17 in part responsible for the consistent decline in green18 house gas emissions from the upstream oil and gas 19production segment. 20 This raises fundamental questions about 21whether these rules are needed; if they are, whether 22 such a sweeping approach is justified; and perhaps most 23 importantly, why EPA has not given the current NSPS 24 Quad O rules the full opportunity to realize the 25 significant VOC and methane benefits.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 151 1 Our members have also identified some initial 2 concerns with several aspects of the proposed rules 3 related to leak detection and repair. I'll refer to 4 that as LDAR. As others have commented or will comment 5 here today, the Colorado LDAR program is not a 6 translatable model, for many reasons, including the 7 nascency of the program and the fact that the DJ Basin 8 is very unique in terms of infrastructure and access. 9 We recognize that the proposal does not merely copy the 10 Colorado program, and we urge the EPA not to do so in 11 the final rule. 12 We also strongly support flexibility across 13 the entirety of these regulations. This would include 14 flexibility in how monitoring and repairs are 15 accomplished, and, perhaps most importantly, a codified 16 recognition that compliance with a stringent state LDAR 17program should be deemed compliance for federal rules. 18 The Alliance is encouraged by the semiannual monitoring 19 frequency and believes such frequency is supported by 20 the data. The recordkeeping requirements, however, are 21 unduly burdensome and not workable. And the definition 22 of "fugitive emissions components" needs fixing. 23 MR. GREEN: If you could wrap it up, 24Mr. Waeckerlin. 25 MR. WAECKERLIN: Yes. Thank you for the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 152 1 opportunity to comment, and we look forward to working 2 constructively with the Agency prior to final rule 3 promulgation. 4 MR. GREEN: Thank you. 5 MR. WAECKERLIN: Thank you. 6 MR. GREEN: Our next speakers will be Rhonda 7 Peters and Milt Hetrick. Ms. Peters. 8 MS. PETERS: My name is Rhonda Peters. It's 9 R-h-o-n-d-a, last name P-e-t-e-r-s. I'm here today as a 10 concerned mother and a member of the Moms Clean Air 11 Force. I care about children, and I believe that they 12 need to be protected from methane pollution, which is 13 linked to childhood asthma. 14 You've already heard testimony about the facts 15 on how methane relates to ozone, which is linked to 16 asthma. I am here today because I personally know far 17 too many children who have asthma, and I'm keenly aware 18 that it can take those children's lives at any time. 19 Therefore, I support the EPA's proposed rule to cut 20methane pollution, but I feel it falls short by only 21 applying to new wells and not existing ones. 22 Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas which 23 contributes to global warming, smog, and asthma, which 24 children are particularly vulnerable to. It also 25 contains carcinogens like benzenes and formaldehyde,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 153 1 which can lead to cancer. 2 The oil and gas industry has an extremely 3 heavy presence in Colorado, with over 40,000 fracking 4 wells. It is the largest industrial contributor of 5methane pollution. In addition to harming our 6 children's health and fueling extreme climate pollution 7 and extreme climate events, methane pollution annually 8 wastes billions of dollars of natural gas; however, this 9 waste and this pollution can be prevented. 10 Colorado was recently the first state to enact 11 guidelines that would require methane to be captured at 12 the 95 percent level. These guidelines were supported 13 by the majority of the oil and gas industry because they 14 are achievable. However, what we have learned in the 15 last couple years is that industry self-regulation 16 doesn't work, and these guidelines need to be enforced 17 and they need to be stronger. The EPA's proposed rule 18 to cut methane pollution, it makes good common sense for 19 our children and it must also be applied to existing 20 wells. 21 Reducing methane pollution is important to 22moms because childhood asthma and cancer are serious 23 issues. People in the Denver area have seen the freeway 24 signs frequently warning us of high ozone levels, but 25 not everybody here understands what they mean. They

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 154 1mean that people who have asthma are at high risk of 2 asthma attacks and that children, whose lungs are 3 developing and growing, they are at risk for developing 4 asthma and therefore they should remain inside. 5 Again, methane released from the oil and gas 6 industry can be prevented, and we know this. Colorado 7 already took the first steps to make that happen. The 8 rules need to be enforced through other than industry 9 self-regulation, and federal action is needed to apply 10 to both existing and future wells. 11 I'm thankful to come today and be able to 12 speak on behalf of the many children that I know who 13personally -- I know personally who have asthma. There 14 are many children who can be spared from developing 15 asthma, through the EPA's actions. Strong methane 16pollution standards are needed to protect children. The 17proposed federal standards are certainly a good first 18 step, but they are not sufficient. 19 And that is why I have taken time away from my 20 work and other responsibilities to be here today. I'm 21 calling on the EPA to protect our country's children by 22 ensuring that the final rule applies to both existing 23 and to new wells. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. GREEN: Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 155 1 MR. HETRICK: Good afternoon. My name is 2 Milt Hetrick; that's M-i-l-t, H-e-t-r-i-c-k; a retired 3 engineer and physicist, and I live in Centennial, 4 Colorado. Thank you for this opportunity to offer 5 comments related to methane pollution. 6 I'm a lifetime member of the Colorado Sierra 7 Club and a number of other organizations concerned about 8 sustainability, but I'm speaking today on my own behalf 9 as well as my two great-granddaughters', who were born 10 two years ago, in supporting the EPA's methane pollution 11 standards for the oil and gas industry. 12 I'm also here representing a growing number of 13people who have already transitioned away from burning 14 ancient hydrocarbons, also known as fossil fuels. Four 15years ago we capped off our natural gas line into our 16 home and installed a geothermal/geoexchange heat pump, 17 that exchanges thermal energy with the earth, for all 18 our heating and cooling needs. So we no longer buy 19 natural gas to burn. So I'm standing in a different 20 sandbox, so to speak, than some other people. 21 The 40 solar panels on our roof generate the 22 electrical power for all our electrical appliances and 23provide the power to operate the geothermal heat pump. 24 The PV system also generates enough electrical energy to 25 allow us to drive a plug-in hybrid car 10,000 miles a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 156 1 year without burning gasoline. So we really don't need 2 coal, oil, and natural gas to provide the energy to keep 3 our lights on, to cook our food, to operate our 4 appliances, to cool and heat our home, or even for local 5 transportation. Now, admittedly, cross-country travel 6 and food production are still problematic because fossil 7 fuels, and specifically natural gas, is used extensively 8 in these centers. 9 And we still need natural gas for sustainable 10 nonburning uses, such as plastics and feedstock for 11making carbon fibers that we need for lightweight 12materials in our transportation sector. 13 But we should leave the methane in the ground, 14 from a climate change perspective. We know that. But 15 if we do extract this resource for sustainable, 16 nonburning purposes, then the drilling, fracking, 17 collection, transportation processes involved should be 18 done in a manner that prevents the methane from escaping 19 into the atmosphere. This is where the role of the EPA 20 is so critical. 21 According to the IPCC, the climate change 22potential of methane is 86 times that of CO2 when 23 averaged over a 20-year period. Historically, EPA has 24used a factor of 20, averaging over a hundred-year time 25 frame. But since the methane molecule only stays in the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 157 1 atmosphere for between 10 and 15 years, it makes sense 2 to use the IPC factor of 86. 3 We all agree that burning natural gas is 4 cleaner than burning coal or oil; however, simple 5 calculation indicates that if this extraction process of 6 drilling, fracking, collecting, transporting the natural 7 gas to where it eventually gets burned, if more than 8 4 percent of that natural gas is lost as leaks or 9 escapes into the atmosphere, that factor of 86 makes 10 this methane more -- or worse for the climate than 11burning coal. Natural gas is only a clean fuel if it's 12produced at less than 4 percent leakage from well to 13 wheels, or to the burner. 14 For decades the oil and gas industry has been 15 self-reporting their leakage. They understand it's not 16 in their best interest to self-report no more than 17 3 percent leakage. Yet when independent investigators 18 go out with mobile or airborne sampling equipment, they 19 find the leakage range from 6 to 17 percent in certain 20 fields. The EPA must get directly involved in 21monitoring methane emissions. 22 The EPA has to set emission standards that 23 assure the extraction of gas, regardless of how it's 24used, is not going to result in further global warming, 25 climate change, and all the associated unsustainable

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 158 1 ramifications. 2 I'm not a big fan of regulations, but when 3 people behave irresponsibly, then the rest of us have no 4 recourse but to create laws and regulations that demand 5 the oil and gas industry respect our lives and the lives 6 of our children and the long-term habitability of this 7 planet. 8 I thank you, and Addison and Isabella, my 9 great-grandchildren, thank you for the great job you are 10 doing, despite all the obstacles that we've put in your 11path and despite our failure to fund your work properly. 12 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speakers will 13 be Karen Dike and Karen Kalavity. Whenever you're 14 ready. 15 MS. DIKE: Okay. My name is Karen Dike. I 16 live in Longmont, Colorado. I'm a representative of 17 Coloradans Against Fracking and also a member of Sierra 18 Club. 19 As I was preparing for this, I thought, What 20 should I tell the EPA? I could tell that you methane is 21 86 times more potent than CO2 as a greenhouse gas, but 22you already know that. I could tell you that everyone 23 touts the Colorado methane regulations, but the methane 24 and other toxins in our air here have increased, but you 25 already know that. I could tell you that methane and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 159 1 other VOCs from fracking are contributing to very high 2 ozone here, so high that the American Lung Association 3 gave us an "F" and you, the EPA, have labeled us as a 4 nonattainment area, but you already know that. 5 I could tell you that methane is leaking not 6 only from fracking extraction sites but in every point 7 along the way, but you already know that. I could tell 8 you that, along with methane spewing out of all these 9 wells, it brings with it VOCs that are dangerous to our 10 health, but you already know that. I could tell you 11 that the amount of methane leaking is known to be vastly 12 underestimated, and you already know that. 13 I could tell that you methane is going to 14drastically increase global warming, which will 15 adversely affect all parts of the world, with sea level 16 rise, droughts, wildfires, habitat destruction, and more 17 frequent severe weather, but you already know that. 18 But have you thought about the consequences of 19 that? And I decided what I would do is read you a poem 20 by Drew Dellinger: 21 It's 3:23 in the morning and I'm 22 awake because my great-great23 grandchildren won't let me sleep. My 24 great-great-grandchildren asked me in 25 dreams, "What did you do while the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 160 1 planet was plundered? What did you do 2 while the earth was unraveling? Surely 3 you did something when the seasons 4 started failing, as mammals, reptiles, 5 birds were all dying? Did you fill the 6 streets with protests when democracy was 7 stolen? What did you do once you knew?" 8 So I'm going to say to you, if you turn a 9 blind eye to the methane pollution, you are 10participating in the war against the future of our 11 children, which is being waged by the fossil fuel 12 industry. 13 Here's what I would tell you: There is no 14need for new regulations. The President has the power 15 and needs to have the courage to eliminate all new wells 16 and should do so immediately. The EPA needs to reclaim 17 their power to enforce all the regulations that were 18 ended with the Halliburton loophole. All current wells 19 that are noncompliant need to be closed if compliance 20 isn't met within a month. Enforcement of the Clean Air, 21 Clean Water, RCRA, and other regulations, and immediate 22 severe consequences must happen now. This would have an 23 immediate effect on our environmental degradation and on 24 the U.S. contribution to climate change. 25 Don't say it can't be done. It can. Put

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 161 1 people to work building an infrastructure for the 2 future, instead of export terminals for fossil fuels. 3 Tell President Obama and the head of the EPA: You know. 4Now what will you do? 5 Thank you. 6 MS. KALAVITY: I'm guessing it was me, Karen 7 Kalavity, K-a-l-a-v-i-t-y. Okay. 8 Fracking is seen as a way of unearthing 9 natural gas. Natural gas does burn cleaner than many 10 other fossil fuel types of resources. The problem is 11 that extracting natural gas is a very dirty process, 12 even though burning it is a relatively clean way of 13 unleashing energy. Let's understand that we as humans 14do not create energy, we just unleash it and provide it 15 in a different form. 16 Many people have said that we should leave our 17 fossil fuels in the ground because then we will not be 18 unleashing any new methane or greenhouse gases; rather, 19 we will leave it there in a sequestered state that does 20 not affect our atmosphere and ecology. With all the new 21 alternative and clean energy forms, this sounds like a 22very good idea. 23 It is now as cheap or cheaper to use solar and 24wind energy than -- than fossil fuels. The expensive 25part of the renewable solution is not the production of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 162 1 them but rather the retrofitting them into our old 2 fossil fuel infrastructure. This is where we need to 3 start making some decisions. Are we going to continue 4 to use dirty fossil fuels just because our -- our 5 infrastructure was set up for them decades ago? Or are 6 we going to start making clean energy a priority and set 7 up infrastructure to allow this? 8 Though I have not seen any real studies on the 9 matter, it is my impression that all of these wildfires 10 are part of the CO2 and methane problem. Even though I 11 listen to advertisements talking about how we have 12 safely fracked for over 60 years, there is no mention of 13 the cumulative effect of fracking more and more and 14more. Just because something does not cause harm in 15 small doses, does not mean that it can't cause extreme 16 harm in extreme and continued doses. And that is where 17we are at with fracking and fossil fuel extraction. 18 I have heard that the escaped natural gas 19 emissions from wells are about 10 percent. How in the 20 world can we expect not to have truly volatile -- 21volatile experiences when that is the allowable amount? 22 Supposedly Colorado has some of the strictest laws in 23 the nation with regard to fracking. Well, that is all 24pretty much relative when all the laws are really lax, 25 in the first place.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 163 1 And Colorado has a very low severance tax, 2much lower than Wyoming and other states. This means 3 there is a lot more extraction going on in Colorado 4 because oil and gas companies only pay a fraction in 5 taxes to the state, as compared to the amount received 6 in other states. Again, when 10 percent emissions from 7 the wells going into the surrounding atmosphere is 8 considered strict, I just have to wonder what the heck 9 you are so proud about in your advertising. 10 And those are volatile gases. I think the oil 11 and gas companies should have to start paying out when 12hundreds of homes start burning up in wildfires, because 13 I believe these wildfires are directly related to 14natural gas emissions and other fossil fuel extractions, 15 especially right at the well source. This wasn't 16 happening years ago, and now reports of wildfires are on 17 the news daily. 18 And I'm going to take an aside. I have some 19 time. I don't want to just pick on the oil and gas 20 industries when it comes to climate change and green21house gas production. As a vegetarian who cares about 22 animals first and a sustainable planet second, we must 23 stop eating meat and slaughtering animals to the degree 24we have gotten used to. Raising animals for food uses 25 30 percent of the world's land mass. In our own

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 164 1 country, the U.S., we have cleared more than 270 million 2 acres of forest to make room for grain- and pasture-fed 3 animals such as cattle, pigs, sheep -- sheep and 4 chickens. We like to complain about the rainforest 5 that's cut down in Brazil, but the USA has been tearing 6 down trees for generations before it ever happened 7 elsewhere, and to a huge degree. 8 We need to understand that carbon emissions 9 are a problem because we do not have enough trees and 10 other plants to absorb these excess greenhouse gases. 11 If there were more trees that could use carbon dioxide 12 and release oxygen, then we would not have a problem. 13 But we continue to cut down trees and convert forests to 14pasture and man-made deserts. We do it in Denver, we do 15 it as a nation, and we do this as a worldwide practice. 16 We cannot keep lording over nature and think that trees 17 are there to chop down and animals are there for us to 18 butcher and the Earth is there for us to destruct. 19 The meat and dairy and egg industries produce 20 65 percent of the worldwide nitrous oxide emissions. 21Nitrous oxide is 300 percent more powerful at trapping 22heat in the Earth's atmosphere than carbon dioxide. 23 This means that diets of meat eaters create seven times 24 the greenhouse emissions as the diets of vegans. 25 Turkeys, chickens, pigs, and cows collect --

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 165 1 and cows collectively are the largest producer of 2methane in the U.S. Methane is 20 times more powerful 3 at trapping heat in the Earth's atmosphere than carbon 4 dioxide. And this was a figure that we're relating to 5 what is said and, in fact, is probably 86 six times 6 more. 7 If one person exchanged eating meat for a 8 vegan diet, they would reduce carbon dioxide emissions 9 by 1.5 tons per year. That means that if every American 10 dropped one serving of chicken from their diet, it would 11 save the same amount of CO2 as taking 500,000 cars off 12 the roads. 13 Also, taking meat off the diet reduces water 14 consumption. Nearly half the water in the U.S. goes to 15 raising animals for food. It takes more than 2400 16 gallons -- 17 MR. GREEN: Can you wrap it up, please. 18 MS. KALAVITY: Okay. That's my spiel. But 19 it's more than the oil and gas industry, and so we need 20 to be more involved. 21 MR. GREEN: Thank you. The next speakers are 22 R.J. Harrington and Catherine Collentine. 23 Mr. Harrington. 24 MR. HARRINGTON: Thanks, Greg. 25 MR. GREEN: Find your testimony?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 166 1 MR. HARRINGTON: Got it. That's been 2 submitted electronically. 3 My name is R.J. Harrington. That's 4 H-a-r-r-i-n-g-t-o-n. Thanks, Amy, Greg, Cheryl, and 5 Monica. It's a pleasure to have you here today. 6 Appreciate you guys taking your time. I know you get 7 paid to do it, but we especially appreciate you having 8 this hearing again in Denver. 9 Josh mentioned earlier, he can't remember how 10many times he's been here, at various other testimonies. 11 This is my third time in the last couple of years. I 12was here in the fall for the new source carbon rules and 13 then last year for the existing source carbon rules, and 14now I'm back for methane. 15 I'm here as a business owner. I am a member 16 of Environmental Entrepreneurs, and that industry 17 association is made up of folks that care not only about 18 business but also about the bottom line and the 19 environment. So it's all about the economy, it's all 20 about energy, it's all about the environment. 21 I'm also here on behalf of my two children. 22 May Eve is 11 and Connell is 9, and they would much 23prefer to see us keep this ancient hydrocarbon under the 24 earth. As mentioned earlier, we could use these fuel 25 stocks for a lot better products than just burning them

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 167 1 up into the atmosphere, regardless of how ostensibly 2 better burning methane is than coal. 3 So my prepared statement is that the new 4methane standards are a great first step. Thank you. 5 But to really ramp up economic activity in Colorado and 6 address the problem, we need tougher standards to cut 7 pollution, not just from future oil and gas development 8 but existing oil and gas operations across this great 9 state of Colorado and the nation. These standards must 10 also be accompanied by a budget for enforcement and 11penalties for noncompliance. 12 By listing emissions from oil and gas 13 operations, you would send an even stronger, clearer 14market signal to the private sector that would stimulate 15 the nation, grow Colorado small businesses, and create 16more jobs by investing in clean energy sources. Wind 17 and solar energy efficiency, those are the industries 18 that will power us into the future, instead of 19 continuing to be dragged into the past. 20 A lot of folks say that regulations are bad 21 for business, regulations will cost the consumer money. 22Now, you'll get a lot of statistics from both sides of 23 this story, but I can tell you that, as a small-business 24 owner, there are millions, billions, if not trillions of 25 dollars waiting to be unleashed into the economy to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 168 1 transform our energy sector. Those that complain that 2 their small businesses are being drowned or put out of 3 business by regulations can retool, they can retrofit. 4 And we also believe, as environmental 5 entrepreneurs, that this industry as well as some 6 support from the government, both at the federal and 7 state level, should step up to the plate of retraining 8 and make sure that those that are displaced by this 9 coming economic revolution are supported. 10 We mean that sincerely, because the jobs in 11 efficiency wind and solar are local, they cannot be 12 outsourced, and there's already a huge economic engine 13 that is happening right now. Environmental 14 entrepreneurs have already invested hundreds of millions 15 of dollars in this sector and are poised to unleash 16 hundreds of millions of dollars more. 17 So thanks again for being here. I thank 18 everybody that's come in today, be they paid or not, to 19 sacrifice part of their day. And again, I am doing so 20 not only on the behalf of my business but also on the 21behalf of my children and their ability to breathe 22 cleaner air. 23 Thanks. 24 MS. COLLENTINE: Okay. Hopefully, that's 25 enough.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 169 1 I'm Cathy Collentine. That's 2 C-o-l-l-e-n-t-i-n-e. And I want to say thank you so 3 much for the opportunity to offer my comments today on 4 the proposed rules covering methane emissions from oil 5 and gas operations. 6 Like I said, my name is Cathy Collentine. I 7 work at the Sierra Club, but I'm also here to speak on 8 my own behalf as a resident of Colorado. Two years ago 9 I moved here and I saw, firsthand, traveling up the I-25 10 corridor, the expanse of the oil and gas operations here 11 along the Front Range. I'd never seen that before, and 12 the proximity of the operations to homes and schools and 13 hospitals, to businesses and to communities, as well as 14places of natural beauty was astounding to me. 15 I learned very quickly that Colorado has a 16 serious smog problem. Today in Denver, I loved looking 17 up the mountains. And I'm a little sad the days that I 18 can't see them, but realized very quickly that that was 19 due, in no small part, to vast expansion of oil and gas 20 development in this state. 21 I participated and testified in favor of 22 strong methane and volatile organic compound emissions 23 regulations before our state Air Quality Commission here 24 in Colorado early last year, and shortly thereafter 25 Colorado became the first state in the country to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 170 1 regulate methane emissions from oil and gas operations, 2 as you guys well know. I'm pleased that the EPA has 3 taken it upon themselves to protect the health of our 4 climate and communities, of the public health and 5 safety, by proposing rules that would similarly regulate 6 methane and smog-causing emissions from oil and gas 7 operations across the country. 8 The Sierra Club has membership in a number of 9 states, including North Dakota, places that don't have 10 rules like Colorado does, places that the stories are 11 even more lurid of the health impacts and other impacts 12 to the community, to families and to children than we 13 have here. 14 You've heard a lot about how methane is the 15primary component of natural gas and it's a contributor 16 in the climate change. In that same two-year time span 17 that I've been here in Colorado, I've seen what it means 18 for us and for many others across the country when we 19 talk about climate change. The flooding, the fires, the 20 unmanageable destruction of homes for people, homes for 21wildlife, caused by exacerbated climate change is a 22 reality for us here. 23 We have the technology to capture these 24 emissions. We've heard from small-business owners who 25 own those companies and who are proud of the work that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 171 1 they do and who believe that they can help to move us 2 towards cleaner air. We also have the technology to 3 pursue a transition to clean energy, and you just heard 4 from folks talking about the fact that that is feasible 5 and that's something that can happen now. Both of those 6 technologies are ways that we'll need to move forward 7 without delay. 8 And it's not only the climate, it's the health 9 and safety of the public and of those who work and live 10 in and around the oil and gas operations. We cannot 11 regulate fracking enough to make it safe. We do know 12 that. But these rules do provide a first step to 13protect public health across the country. 14 Methane is released with volatile organic 15 compounds that are known carcinogens, like benzene. 16 These cause asthma and these cause upper respiratory 17 ailments. This hurts people who work for the industry 18 and those who oppose its expansion alike. Studies here 19 in Colorado have shown higher cancer risk for people 20 living or working near wells, due to exposure to benzene 21 emitted with methane and other volatile organic 22 compounds. We need to reduce these exposures, these 23 risks, these toxic emissions, and strong rules with 24mandatory compliance is a step to do just that. 25 This rule should cover previous rulemakings on

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 172 1 volatile organic compounds and methane capture. Storage 2 vessels are heavy emitters, and they should be included. 3 Please add them to this rule, to ensure that that major 4 source of methane and VOC pollution is not left 5 unregulated. 6 This rule is the first step. It covers new 7 and modified sources, but it doesn't cover existing 8 ones. You've heard the statistics before, but I want to 9 make sure that it's one that you've written down; that 10 by 2018, which is three years from now, 90 percent of 11methane emissions will come from current operations. 12 Those existing sources need to be regulated, and delays 13 only exacerbate the impacts on the climate and public 14health. 15 Inspections for leaks must be uniformly 16 required at a higher frequency than they are under 17 current rules. They need to be required on at least a 18monthly basis. Leaks must be required to quickly be 19 fixed, once they're detected, and not allowed to persist 20 for six months or longer without action. This is health 21 and safety we're dealing with, not inconsequential 22matters. And it's been shown that while some operators 23 will do their best to go beyond compliance with the 24 rules, we've seen, time and time again, that many do 25 not. It must be required and it must be enforced with

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 173 1 proper inspection. 2 I'll wrap up by just saying thank you for the 3 opportunity to participate in the public comment session 4 today. I truly do hope that, a few months down the 5 road, I can applaud strengthened final rules; and that I 6 know you guys look forward to seeing me again, to talk 7 to you about existing source regulation. 8 Thank you. 9 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speakers are 10 Bryce Carter and Douglas Henderson. 11 MR. CARTER: Good afternoon. Thank you again 12 for having all of us here today to speak about the 13 rules. As you've heard, throughout today, there's been 14 a lot of support from not only technical experts but 15 also people out in the field that have experienced this 16 directly. And I want to talk a little bit about that 17piece of it. 18 MR. GREEN: Before you do that, Mr. Carter, 19 can you spell out your name. 20 MR. CARTER: Yeah, certainly. My name 21 is Bryce, B-r-y-c-e; and the last name's Carter, 22 C-a-r-t-e-r. And my profession, I'm actually a 23 organizer for the Sierra Club. 24 And I've been doing community organizing for 25 nearly a decade now. And I've been blessed to be able

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 174 1 to travel a lot, and I got to live in North Dakota for 2 four months. And I met a lot of people that have been 3 directly impacted by emissions from fracking and seeing 4 the impacts of methane emissions from climate change all 5 across the country, but especially seeing -- or hearing 6 the stories of those that have been impacted. 7 When I was in North Dakota, I urged a lot of 8 people that were scared to speak up about being -- 9 having had health impacts with their children and their 10 families, because of the culture out there. I talked to 11people who have lost livestock that were grazing near 12 fracked wells. And if you look at satellite images, you 13 see this green glow that is in North Dakota. And I -- 14 it terrifies me to think about how many rogue emissions 15have gone into the atmosphere over the last decade 16 especially, but many decades, that helped fuel climate 17 change. 18 Here in Colorado we're no stranger to seeing 19 what climate change brings. We've been in the front 20 lines of fires, where, here in downtown Denver, I 21 remember on certain days a few years ago, it was raining 22 ash; where I've seen an Apocalyptic plume coming from 23 Colorado Springs, when the fires were burning there, 24burning down homes there. 25 And I also, four years ago, testified when we

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 175 1 -- you all held a hearing on natural gas then, and I got 2 to meet some people that are on the front lines of a lot 3 of these neighborhoods where these fracked wells are 4 just a few meters away from property lines. And, 5 similarly, the same stories with their health impacts, 6 of having these fumes go right into their homes and 7 getting sick from it. 8 And, in fact, this one family who had to use 9 inhalers, I remember being told that they were so sick, 10 they were starting to have nerve damage from it. And 11 their whole bodies, everybody was sick all the time. 12And the doctors say that that's from long-term exposure. 13 So looking at the flooding that's happened, 14 that's been two years ago, we, Sierra Club and other 15 organizations, went out to homes in these impacted 16 communities, flooded-out basements, destroyed lives. 17And oftentimes we kind of forget those that don't have 18 the same resources as others. There's a little 19 community that were in trailer homes, that was washed 20 away. And I've heard from a lot of emergency personnel 21 from different cities that a lot of those folks were 22 lower income and no one knows where they went after 23 their homes were destroyed. 24 So when you talk about reining in methane 25 emissions, I think, first and foremost to me, that comes

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 176 1 to mind, is the fact that stray fuels are contributing 2 to climate change, especially when you look at the 3 equivalent in, up to 2013, 160 coal-fired power plants 4 worth of emissions for greenhouse gases. I think that's 5 unacceptable in this time when we have solutions to 6 this. 7 Colorado certainly has been a leader. And 8 certainly, when we look at the rule, it's great that we 9 see it implemented and we see this leadership from the 10 EPA. And as other speakers have talked about, it's 11 extremely important that we take it to the next step, 12 talking about making sure we regulate existing wells for 13 those that are currently being impacted and are downwind 14 of these wellheads that are emitting methane and other 15 toxins. 16 And certainly, by the end of the day, we would 17 all love to see it in the ground, where it should be, 18 and lean toward a clean fuel energy future. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. GREEN: Mr. Henderson. 21 MR. HENDERSON: Good afternoon. My name is 22 Douglas Henderson; D-o-u-g-l-a-s, H-e-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. I 23 live in Fort Collins in northern Colorado, a region of 24 the country that's heavily affected by oil and gas 25 development. I'm active with a number of civic and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 177 1 environmental networks, local groups like the Fort 2 Collins Sustainability Group and larger organizations 3 such as 350 and Food & Water Watch. And the values and 4 views that I express are shared by many others locally 5 and across Colorado and across the country. 6 The radical expansion of fracking in recent 7 years has generated substantial, ongoing, and increasing 8 controversy and conflict in northern Colorado, within 9 communities and between municipalities and state-level 10 authorities, over issues involving public health, the 11 environment, resource and property rights, and local 12 self-determination versus state-level authority. 13 Problems of oil and gas development, in 14particular fracking, in northern Colorado are recognized 15 and documented. And while we know more research is 16 needed, the mounting evidence is clear that oil and gas 17 development is causing: 18 Air pollution in emissions of methane, the 19 subject of this hearing; volatile organic chemicals; 20 ozone; and, of course, CO2; 21 Pollution of surface waters and groundwaters, 22 and destruction of water from a renewable resource to a 23 toxic slurry, which the industry likes to call "produced 24water"; 25 Health damage. Over 700 chemicals used in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 178 1 fracking, many are endocrine interruptors that disturb 2 hormone function; 3 Property damage to farms, suburban neighbor4 hoods within town limits like Greeley; 5 Political conflicts and legal battles; 6 And the cost of these are borne by 7 individuals, by families, by communities, and 8 governments. The fossil fuel industry denies 9 culpability and evades responsibility. 10 The scale of damage from oil and gas keeps 11 growing. We have exploding trains, pipeline leaks and 12 spills, outrageous damage to oceans and coasts, melting 13 glaciers and polar ice, rising sea levels; now the 14Arctic is being assaulted; and the mega-problem of 15 climate change, which is looming and accelerating and 16will affect everything on Earth. 17 The science community and a large portion of 18 the public are convinced that global warming is 19 occurring and caused or exacerbated primarily by fossil 20 fuels. In Colorado and elsewhere, evidence about damage 21 from oil and gas comes out in testimonies at hearings, 22videos posted online, protests, in panels and 23 conferences, in science and technical journals. 24 Public support for clean energy is at an all25 time high, but it falls on deaf ears in our contemporary

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 179 1 political environment. 2 As the leader of the Fort Collins 3 Sustainability Group put it recently, "We're confronted 4 with an existential threat to civilization, and it's 5 going to take a very big, concentrated effort to tackle 6 it, an effort comparable to what the U.S. put out to 7 beat the Axis powers in World War II. But what we're 8 seeing is a kind of business-as-usual response." 9 Indeed, the oil and gas industry goes forward 10 with full intention to mine, process, and sell all the 11 fossil fuels in the planet, just business as usual. The 12 industry treats the environment -- water, land, and 13 air -- as a dumping ground. 14 Under Vice President Cheney, fracking gained 15 exemption from our nation's hallmark laws protecting our 16 environment. The industry actively campaigns to deny 17 science when it does not suit their interests, and funds 18 antiscience campaigns just as the tobacco industry did 19 before it, acting egregiously against public interest 20 and public health and the environment. 21 Industry denies culpability for its damages. 22And when it cannot escape culpability, it binds those 23 who are compensated to nondisclosure, imposing threat of 24 financial ruin if anyone speaks out and tells the truth. 25 In northern Colorado, the fracking industry

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 180 1 brings a reign of pressure and fear to communities: 2 Teachers and school administrators afraid to speak out; 3 political leaders, businesses, and media who know the 4political price of industry's wrath; local government 5 employees who will face repercussions for speaking out. 6 This is not the America that most Americans want. 7 We all use and need fossil fuels in our lives 8 now, but we also understand the need to change direction 9 rapidly, away from fossil fuels to clean, renewable 10 energy. A lot of technology exists now. Economics of 11 renewables are rapidly improving and increasing. And 12 for as long as we continue to need fossil fuels, it's 13 imperative that its production and use proceed in a way 14 that does as little damage as possible, including the 15 strictest methane rules you can come up with. 16 We applaud the Obama Administration, the 17 EPA, and those who lead and support efforts to require 18 the highest standards to protect public health and the 19 environment from fossil fuels, including methane 20 emissions. 21 The other day, while listening to the radio, I 22heard an ad from the gas industry that said -- 23 MR. GREEN: You need you to wrap it up. 24 MR. HENDERSON: -- that said, "Gas provides 25 energy whenever you need it, even when the sun is not

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 181 1 shining," with the obvious, if inaccurate, implication 2 that gas is needed when solar panels aren't producing 3 energy. The ad ended with the industry's catchphrase, 4 "Think about it." 5 Well, I and millions of others are thinking 6 about it a lot. We know that -- that economic renewable 7 technologies exist that can meet a large portion of our 8 power needs. We think that humans are highly inventive, 9 and more so given -- and more and green -- and better 10 green energies will come faster, the more priority we 11 give to it. 12 We think that instead of investing hundreds of 13 billions of dollars and more years in the dirty climate14 crisis fossil fuels, we should be putting that 15 investment into clean and green energy. 16 We think the fossil fuel industry should be 17 stopped from stymieing green innovation, stopped from 18 treating our environment as a dumping ground for its 19pollution, stopped from evading responsibility for the 20 damages it causes, stopped from corrupting our political 21 environment. 22 We think it is time to recognize that if we're 23 going to have a habitable future, fossil fuel needs to 24 remain in the ground. 25 We think it is great news that commitments to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 182 1 divest from fossil fuel now totals over $2.6 trillion, 2 up from 50 billion just a year ago, a 50-fold increase 3 in just one year. 4 We think this gives hope and inspiration, 5 because there is no Plan B. 6 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speakers will 7 be Sussy Valdez and Audrey Mascarenhas. Ms. Valdez. 8 MS. VALDEZ: Hi. My name is Sussy, S-u-s-s-y; 9 Valdez, V-, as in Victor, a-l-d-e-z. I came to America 10 in 1997, having experience of doing my high school 11 thesis in South America about pollution. I was in 12 industry, and I saw how they dumped material in the 13 rivers, and also emissions of gas. So then I came to 14America and I got informed as to what is happening here. 15 And sorry for bringing it up, but you might 16 recall the movie, John Travolta in, "Civil Action," 17where there is the dumping of all those toxins in the 18water and they were having cancer. So I remember that 19 EPA stood up and brought all that cleanup of all that 20 town water that was really making those people get sick. 21 So I am here to only make this comment, 22 because I don't have experience and I don't want to name 23 industry, but they insist that the government go to no 24 regulations, and they're ready for it. They do 25 everything, like, perfect for passing the test. They

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 183 1 audit, inspections. But after the inspectors are gone, 2 they go back to their bad procedures. 3 So my personal comment, while you are 4 expressing that, if you can put some people or some way 5 to really make it that they follow the rules 6 99.9 percent of the time, because it's perfect. It is 7 like having somebody overlooking them. Maybe drones 8 flying, so they cannot shoot them down; cameras, men, 9 you know. That is wonderful. 10 So that's my only comment. So please 11 implement something that is going to be really in favor 12 of every single person, because whatever is happening 13 underground contaminate the water, and it leaks by many 14people who live many miles away. 15 I appreciate it. Thank you. 16 MS. MASCARENHAS: Good afternoon, ladies and 17 gentlemen. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. My 18 name is Audrey Mascarenhas. 19 So I represent a company -- 20 MR. GREEN: Would you spell that for her, 21please. 22 MS. MASCARENHAS: I was afraid you were going 23 to say that. So Audrey is A-u-d-r-e-y; and last the 24name, Mascarenhas, M-a-s-c-a-r-e-n-h-a-s. 25 MR. GREEN: Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 184 1 MS. MASCARENHAS: So we need fossil fuel, 2 especially in the short term. And I think the challenge 3 really is how do we do this. Well, and how do we do it 4 sustainably. And I think the rules that are being put 5 in place around methane, hazardous air pollutants, 6 volatile organic hydrocarbons, go a long way to 7 addressing the requirement for the oil and gas industry. 8 I represent a company, Questor Technology, 9 that provides clean waste gas combustion technology. 10 We're able to take methane, (inaudible), and volatile 11 organic hydrocarbons; combust them at 99.99 percent 12 combustion efficiency, which means we don't release any 13 hydrocarbons off this process and all we're putting into 14 the atmosphere is just water and CO2. 15 For example, when you look at the data in 16 White Paper in 2011, if we took all the uncontrolled 17 emissions and combusted it cleanly, we would reduce 18 greenhouse gas emissions by 87 percent, at a cost of 19 less than a dollar-fifty a ton. 20 But in addition, after combusting it cleanly, 21we've got an opportunity to utilize that heat, whether 22 that heat is used for process or heating a building at 23 site, generating power for that site, or using it to 24 treat water, all this technology is readily available. 25 Right now, we are providing this technology

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 185 1 throughout the United States, especially in key oil- and 2 gas-producing areas. So, for example, in Colorado, 3 we're providing solutions on closed-loop completions, so 4 ensuring that we don't have any emissions. And 5 companies are using it to create a social license for 6 the community, address community concerns on air 7 quality, but also get rid of one issue that is a big 8 issue in the (inaudible). 9 And we're working similarly in West Virginia 10 and Pennsylvania. We're working with industry to 11provide solutions to make sure that volatile organic 12hydrocarbons aren't produced in the atmosphere. In 13 Texas we're doing the same thing with CO2 and H2S and 14 (inaudible), for example. 15 What's important about all this is it's being 16 done in a very cost-effective way. So complying with 17 the rules aren't onerous. There's technology that's 18 readily available that allows companies to be able to 19meet this. 20 Probably the key out of all this is really 21 creating an opportunity to create the win-win community 22 or social license to operate. And as I walked into this 23 room today, I mean, I can see lots of people outside 24protesting. And I think, if we need the energy from 25 fossil fuel short term, we really need a path to find a

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 186 1 way to create the win-win, so between industry and 2 community. In this low-price environment, we really 3 need to find -- find ways that we can cost-effectively 4 create what you're trying to do, which is reduce 5 greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality for 6 communities. 7 And I really believe technology holds that -- 8 that key, so the ability not only to put in regulation 9 that can force companies to pay fines, but also 10 regulation that encourages the use of technology. I 11 guess, looking at flaring and some of these as the 12 low-hanging fruit, so the opportunity not only to deal 13 with it cost effectively, but to use that energy wisely. 14 So I thank you for the opportunity to speak to 15you. 16 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speakers are 17Alissa Grutze and Jonathan Beltran. And the court 18 reporter's asked us to remind you to use the microphone 19 so she can hear you. 20 MS. GRUTZE: Hello. I'm Ali Grutze, 21 G-r-u-t-z-e, and I'm here, in turn, for the Sierra Club 22here in Denver. I grew up in Illinois, and I am 23 speaking on my own behalf today, and in support of EPA's 24 recently proposed methane pollution standards for the 25 oil and gas industry. I just wanted to take this

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 187 1 opportunity to speak today. 2 Given the rapid growth of the oil and gas 3 development, I want to stress why we need to enforce 4methane regulations. 5 First of all, in order to reduce and prevent 6 further climate change, these rules will require a 7 willingness of the industry to clean up their act by 8 drastically cutting emissions from methane pollution. 9 As you probably already know, this gas traps more than 10 80 times as much heat as carbon dioxide over a 20-year 11 time period. And in 2012 it accounted for 10 percent of 12 greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S. And as long as the 13 extraction and production of natural gas continues, our 14 climate and health will continue to suffer. 15 However, these rules not only cut climate16warming methane emissions; they will also protect public 17health by curbing emissions of smog-forming toxic 18pollutions -- pollutants. These emissions are dangerous 19 for the health of communities and workers; have been 20 linked to cancer, respiratory disease, lung and 21 neurological damage, and asthma attacks. And if we are 22 to substantially reduce oil and gas pollution for future 23 generations, we need renewable energy to replace fossil 24 fuels. 25 I am personally extremely concerned for our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 188 1 planet's future and the oil and gas industry impacts on 2 it already. And I ask you please help protect the 3 public and the environment from further devastation. 4 So thank you. 5 MR. BELTRAN: Hello. My name is Jonathan 6 Beltran. Beltran is B-, as in boy, e-l-t-r-a-n. And I 7 appreciate the opportunity for commenting my side on 8 what I heard. Drove by and saw a petition going on, and 9 it looked interesting to me, so I figured, check it out. 10 And I've heard comment, it is a highly potent 11 greenhouse gas and 86 times as powerful as carbon 12 dioxide during the time that it remains in the 13 atmosphere. And from what I understood from that is 14 that, I have a little sister and a little brother who 15 grew up nice and healthy; and realized that, growing up, 16 now they're like 16 and 17 years old, now they got 17 asthma. 18 As a young child, I believe they would have 19 had opportunities that many of us can have. Sports. I 20 got a little sister, she loves sports. But she can't 21 join them, for the reasons that methane has the second 22most prevalence; that yearly, 30 percent of most 23 emissions come from oil production and natural gases. 24And I believe that it would help out if methane, somehow 25we can work around, you know, making it more greener for

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 189 1 us. 2 Oh, I believe a way for modifying this for 3 workers that can clean up after their own methane 4pollutions: I work with a construction company and we 5 work with a lot of chemicals. A way that we work around 6 it is getting rid of it correctly and in a way we can 7 reuse the -- everything, instead of having leaks and 8 letting it get out and polluting our world. 9 And I appreciate it. Thank you. And -- 10 thanks. 11 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Our next 12 speaker is Jesse Prentice-Dunn. 13 And we only have one more person on the list. 14 Is there anybody else in the audience that would like to 15 testify, that hasn't testified yet? 16 Okay. It's yours. 17 MR. PRENTICE-DUNN: All right, I get the last 18word. So my name is Jesse Prentice-Dunn. It's a long 19 one. P-r-e-n-t-i-c-e, hyphen, D-u-n-n. 20 Thank you for the opportunity to testify. As 21 I said, my name is Jesse Prentice-Dunn. I live in 22 Denver, Colorado. I'm a member of the Sierra Club here, 23 testifying as a private citizen. So I want to thank 24you, first and foremost, for holding this hearing today, 25 taking into account the public's views.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 190 1 I moved here about two years ago, expecting to 2move into a land of clean air, that Rocky Mountain high, 3 and was shocked to see the brutal air quality of the 4 Front Range. I'm a biker. Every day, I can feel that 5 sun burn on the inside of my lungs from the ozone. I 6 can't see the mountains. 7 And when I go on trips on the weekend, I can 8 see the gas industry and fracking everywhere, from the 9 giant rigs, the flaring, to the brown cloud that hangs 10 over Weld County north of here. It's very apparent: 11 The gas industry's impacting our environment; and in my 12 opinion, not for the better. 13 I want to applaud the EPA for proposing these 14 regulations. I'm sure you've worked long and hard on 15 these, and so thank you for your tireless work. With 16 that said, I don't think they go far enough. We know 17 that the problem, in addition to new sources, is the 18 ones that are already there. So I urge you to, once 19you're done with this, get to work on the next round; 20 regulate those existing sources. 21 Second, I understand that some of the leak 22 detection and repair systems, the frequency of 23 inspections is determined based on the percentage of 24 leaky parts and kind of determined by how much a company 25 reports that it's leaking. I urge you not to determine

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 191 1 the frequency of inspections based on these voluntary 2 reports, because that just leads companies to falsify 3 reports, to underreport their leaks, so that they don't 4 get inspected so much. So I would say increase the 5 frequency of inspections. 6 I've heard many people talk about the need to 7move to renewables. I would support that. I haven't 8 heard as much from folks in the industry saying it can't 9 be done. And I'd add to that, don't -- don't let folks 10 tell you that this can't be done and can't be done cost 11 effectively. As you're probably all aware, EPA's rules 12 from cleaning up sulphur in the stationary sector has 13 increased fuel economy in passenger cars. Every 14 industry has met these regulations without issue. And I 15would say that a bet against strong standards is a bet 16 against American ingenuity. 17 So I will close by saying thank you for your 18work, and finalize these things, and keep going. Thank 19you. 20 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Prentice-Dunn. 21 All right. That's all I have for right now. 22 Once again, is there anybody that hasn't testified, that 23 would like to? All right. We have a volunteer. 24 Please give us your full name and spell it out 25 for the court reporter.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 192 1 MS. HSIUNG: My name is Stephanie Hsiung, and 2my last name is H-s-i-u-n-g. Stephanie is 3 S-t-e-p-h-a-n-i-e. I work for the Sierra Club, but I am 4 here as a person speaking on my own behalf. 5 I do want to thank you, as many people have, 6 for holding these hearings and listening to us and our 7 concerns, and I really do applaud you guys for moving 8 forward on this rule. I do think it's a little bit 9 overdue, and I really would like to see EPA move quickly 10 on addressing existing sources of methane and VOCs in 11 the oil and gas industry. 12 As a resident of Boulder, I spend most of my 13 time outside when I'm not working, and it is a real 14 concern to me that the ozone levels have reached such an 15 unhealthy level along the Front Range. And I think most 16people who live here really do enjoy the outdoors, and 17 not only the health of people's kids and the elderly are 18 at risk, but the more time we spend outside, the more 19 air that we're breathing in that is containing high 20 levels of ozone is really not good for any of us. 21 And so I think this is a fairly easy and kind 22 of commonsense way to address one significant source of 23methane pollution and VOC pollution. The science is out 24 there. We all know the health impacts of ozone. And 25methane is obviously a huge climate forcer, more so than

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 193 1 carbon, and it's also a precursor to ozone. 2 So I'm sure the EPA knows this, but not only 3 do the methane -- does methane pollution contribute to 4 greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, but it also 5 increases the background level of ozone globally. And 6 so while VOCs -- excuse me -- while VOCs may have a 7 great impact on local air quality, the large amounts of 8 methane pollution going into our atmosphere is raising 9 the background level of ozone everywhere. So that 10 diminishes air quality everywhere, for everyone. 11 I guess I'll have to close and urge EPA to 12 really implement the strongest regulations that they see 13 fit and move forward to address existing sources in 14 the -- from oil and gas production. 15 So thank you. 16 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speaker will 17 be Roger Singer. 18 MR. SINGER: Good afternoon. My name's Roger 19 Singer. That's R-o-g-e-r, S-i-n-g-e-r. And I want to 20 start out by saying that I too am a representative for 21 the Sierra Club, as a staff person, but I am here today 22 representing myself as well. 23 As you have heard many times before, we do 24want to thank you; sincerely appreciate the time and 25 effort that EPA has put into a creating this proposed

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 194 1 rule. It is a significant step forward in trying to 2 address greenhouse gas emissions. 3 And I believe the EPA and soon the BLM are on 4 the right track in terms of creating controls to address 5 emissions from dangerous methane; on the right track, 6 but we can still do better. I agree with others that we 7 need to be able to actually reduce methane emissions 8 significantly. The rules as they are now will probably, 9 at best, leave them stagnant or flat. We are calling 10 and asking for a 40 to 45 percent reduction from the 11 2012 levels by 2025. 12 We are asking that you please address existing 13 sources as well. And my understanding is, the BLM 14version of methane rules coming out, that they will, we 15hope, address existing sources. We hope the EPA will as 16well. 17 I would like to say that we now recognize that 18 federal agencies have the authority, the backing, and 19 the public support to be able to afford those 20 significant reductions in methane emissions and other 21 greenhouse gas-causing sources. Thank you for the steps 22you've taken now. Please act aggressively, knowing that 23you have this huge amount of public support behind you. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Anyone else? All

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 195 1 right. We'll probably have people trickling in 2 throughout the afternoon, so we'll just keep it open 3 till the next speaker shows up. 4 (Pause in the proceedings.) 5 MR. GREEN: Do we have Peggy Tibbetts and 6 Kristin Dickinson in the room? 7 MS. TIBBETTS: I'm here. 8 MR. GREEN: Come on up. 9 MS. TIBBETTS: Right here? 10 MR. GREEN: Yeah. 11 MS. TIBBETTS: My name is -- 12 MR. GREEN: So I was going to ask you to state 13your name and then spell it for the court reporter. 14 And then the way this light works here is: 15 You have five minutes to give your testimony. The 16yellow light will come on when you have one minute left; 17 and when the red light comes on, your five minutes are 18 up. 19 So with that, it's all yours. 20 MS. TIBBETTS: My name is Peggy Tibbetts; 21 P-e-g-g-y, T-i-b-b-e-t-t-s. My husband, Tod, and I have 22 lived in the town of Silt since 1996. Silt is located 23 in western Colorado, in western Garfield County, where 24 in 2009 there were about 4,000 active oil and gas wells. 25As of September 1, 2015, there are over 11,000.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 196 1Along with those wells, there are compressor stations, 2 gas processing plants, tank farms, pipeline transfer 3 stations, and hundreds of miles of pipelines. 4 Silt is nestled in the basin of the Colorado 5 River. With well pads and facilities to the north, 6 south, east, and west of town, we are surrounded. We do 7 not have air quality monitoring in Silt, but we 8 definitely have an emissions problem. 9 Oil and gas facilities leak methane emissions 10 that include other hazardous air pollutants like 11benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, xylene, and styrene. 12 The common acronym is BTEX or, in this case, BTEXS. 13 Even I didn't fully understand the seriousness 14 of the human health risks caused by ambient BTEXS 15 emissions from oil and gas operations until I became 16 sick last year. In April 2014 blood and urine samples 17were collected from me, my daughter Emma, and my 18 granddaughter Haley, who was 12 years old at the time. 19 They also lived in Silt, eight blocks away. 20 Dr. Greg Dooley, at Colorado State University 21 lab, conducted the testing. The urine samples for all 22 three of us tested positive for the metabolites for 23 ethylbenzene, xylene, toluene, and styrene. Haley's 24blood also tested positive for those chemicals. 25 Emma moved Haley and her little brother out of

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 197 1 Silt this past spring. For more than a year my body has 2 been besieged by nine different bacterial infections. 3 This year I underwent DNA testing. The results were 4 analyzed by a DNA researcher and toxicologist. The two 5most significant things the analysis revealed are: 6 Number one, my body is unable to process 7 BTEXS; 8 Number two, my immune system is not 9 functioning because my body is contaminated by BTEXS 10 caused by cumulative, prolonged exposure. 11 Without a functioning immune system my body is 12 unable to fend off the normal bacteria that our bodies 13 are exposed to on a daily basis. 14 Tod travels regularly to New York City and 15 Boston for his job. After spending a week at a time in 16 these dense urban environments, he returns home to 17poorer air quality. As he heads east on the freeway 18 from Battlement Mesa to Silt, he complains the air 19 smells, his eyes become irritated, and he starts 20 coughing and sneezing. He doesn't get sick when he 21 travels to the East Coast. He gets sick when he comes 22home to Silt. 23 In February 2014 the Colorado Air Quality 24 Control Commission adopted stricter methane emission 25 standards, making our state the first in the nation to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 198 1 address fugitive methane emissions. Unfortunately, the 2 new regulations do not go far enough in addressing leaks 3 in existing oil and gas sites and facilities, and the 4 operators are essentially allowed to self-monitor and 5 self-report. 6 In March this year, Tod and I participated in 7 the Citizens Empowerment Project sponsored by 8 Earthworks. A small group of citizens took a trained 9 thermographer on a guided tour of more than a dozen oil 10 and gas sites and facilities in western Garfield County. 11 The thermographer used the FLIR Gasfindir 12 camera to expose otherwise invisible emissions from 13 these sites and facilities. The one- to three-minute 14videos show massive clouds of hazardous air pollution 15pumping out of these facilities. Something as innocuous 16 as a produced water tank is actually shrouded in a cloud 17 of toxic emissions. 18 The truth is, that level of fugitive emissions 19 is ongoing 24 hours day, 7 days a week, every -- at 20 every single oil and gas well pad and facility. And we 21 as residents have no other choice but to breathe that 22 contaminated air. 23 Stricter methane emissions standards mean less 24 BTEX emissions as well as other hazardous air 25pollutants. In order to save the lives of the residents

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 199 1 who live in the gas fields, as well the workers, I urge 2 the EPA to adopt the strictest rules possible. 3 We desperately need meaningful enforcement and 4 increased federal inspections of all oil and gas 5 facilities, new and existing. We must not allow -- we 6 must not continue to allow the operators to self7monitor and self-report. We must impose heavy fines on 8 violators and shut down the violators who fail to 9 comply. 10 Our ultimate goal must be zero emissions. 11 It's good for public health, good for the environment, 12 and good for the oil and gas industry's bottom line. 13Above all, it is most certainly attainable. 14 Thank you. 15 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Ms. Tibbetts. 16 MS. DICKINSON: Good afternoon. Can you hear 17me? Yeah? My name is Kristin Dickinson; K-r-i-s-t-i-n, 18 D-i-c-k-i-n-s-o-n. I am an environmental coordinator 19 with Enerplus Resources. 20 Enerplus is an oil and gas exploration and 21production company, and we operate on Fort Berthold 22 Indian Reservation in North Dakota. The majority of our 23 facilities are located on lands leased from the 24 three affiliated tribes or individual tribal members 25 themselves.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 200 1 My testimony today is specific to the Indian 2 Country Minor Source Review FIP rulemaking. I can 3 provide unique perspective on both the rule -- on the 4 rule both because Enerplus operates exclusively on Fort 5 Berthold Indian Reservation in North Dakota and because 6 I personally completed the existing postconstruction 7 registration requirements of the Indian Country Minor 8 Source Review for Enerplus. 9 Currently the Tribal Minor Source Review 10 requires operators to submit a registration within 11 90 days of initial production. Proposed -- the proposed 12 rulemaking requires True Minor Sources that elect to 13 comply with the proposed FIP, to register their sources 14 30 days prior to beginning construction. 15 Enerplus respectfully requests that EPA 16 consider changing the proposed language to allow for 17postconstruction registrations, as opposed to the 18proposed preconstruction registrations. 19 Preconstruction registrations present a number 20 of challenges to operators because: 21 It is difficult to predict oil and gas 22production and gas composition for an individual well or 23pad prior to startup. Factors such as completions 24 technology improvements, downhole failures, drilling 25 into different formations such as the Bakken or Three

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 201 1 Forks in our case, infill drilling, and even continued 2 uncertainty in reservoir characteristics such as the 3 extended sweet spots, can all influence the well's 4productivity and the well's specific gas composition; 5 This uncertainty leads operators to 6 essentially guess production and emissions rates if they 7 are required to do a registration prior to construction; 8 To be conservative we will likely overestimate 9 our production and PTE to ensure registration values 10 aren't exceeded upon startup. This will result in 11 registrations with emissions estimates nowhere near 12 actuals. 13 The oil and gas industry has seen instances in 14 the past where the PTE from permits and registrations 15 such as these were used to analyze oil and gas emissions 16 in scientific studies and, even more concerning, used 17 for emissions modeling for actual conditions and 18 impacts. 19 These unrealistically high emissions estimates 20 will then misrepresent impacts of oil and gas to the 21public and other agencies such as the Bureau of Land 22 Management, Forest Service, and the U.S. Fish and 23 Wildlife Service. 24 A possible solution to this issue would be to 25 allow operators to update their registration after

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 202 1 startup; but under the current proposed Indian Country 2 Minor Source Review FIP, a modification is limited to a 3 physical change or to an increase in emissions: 4 There are currently no provisions to revise 5 the FIP registration emissions downwards post6 construction using actual emissions; 7 If the EPA chooses -- chooses to stay with 8 provisions requiring preconstruction permitting, 9 Enerplus respectfully requests the EPA provide operators 10 the ability to adjust the FIP registrations downward, 11postconstruction. 12 In addition to the complications with 13preconstruction estimates: The EPA's proposed 14 requirement for preconstruction registrations in Indian 15 Country is inconsistent with oil and gas regulations in 16 surrounding states -- in a state surrounding tribal 17 lands: 18 For example, the North Dakota Industrial 19 Commission requires a facility register within 90 days 20 of initial production, an example of a postconstruction 21 registration; 22 Even federal regulations such as Quad O allow 23 operators the ability to determine PTE within 30 days of 24 first production, another example of using actual test 25 figure emissions;

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 203 1 Regulations like these acknowledge the need 2 for actual data in order for one to provide an accurate 3 emissions estimate; 4 The inconsistency between the proposed Indian 5 Country FIP and other federal and state oil and gas 6 permitting requirements poses a disadvantage to tribal 7members and tribal operators on a reservation where 8 mineral royalties are a crucial source of income for the 9 tribe and critical to their economic development and 10 self-sufficiency. 11 In summary, Enerplus requests the EPA to 12 revise the Indian Country Minor Source language to 13 either: 14 Provide for postconstruction registrations in 15 order to be consistent with the states in Quad O; or 16 Make it publicly clear that the provided 17preconstruction emissions are overestimates and not 18 representative of actual emissions and therefore should 19 not be used for modeling or scientific analysis; 20 If the EPA decides to stick with 21preconstruction registrations, please allow operators 22 the ability to update them after production without a 23physical change or increase in emissions, in order for 24 them to more accurately reflect emissions. 25 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 204 1 MS. VETTER: I was going to ask her to give 2 that to the court reporter. 3 MR. GREEN: Yeah, and I was going to ask the 4 last speaker to do the same. Could we get a copy of 5 your testimony? 6 MS. TIBBETTS: Sure. 7 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Our next speakers are 8 Hilda Nucete and Sophia Herrera Murphy. 9 All right. Ms. Nucete, it's all yours. 10 MS. NUCETE: Hi. My name is Hilda Nucete; 11 H-i-l-d-a, N-u-c-e-t-e. I am originally from Venezuela, 12 but I have been living in Adams County for the past 13 decade. I am here today as a member of the Latino 14 community, as one -- one out of five Coloradans here in 15 the United States. And I am here because I would like 16 to support proposed methane standards for the oil and 17 gas industry. 18 For me, this issue is quite personal. I am 19 originally from Venezuela, and I grew up in an area 20 where a lot of refineries were there. It was an oil 21 camp, in fact, in Marcaibo, Venezuela. And growing up, 22 I was affected by asthma. After my dad passed away, we 23 were able to move to the city, and, surprisingly enough, 24 in the inner city that was polluted, my asthma declined. 25 I was not having attacks anymore.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 205 1 And in 2007, due to the difficult political 2 situation in Venezuela, my family had to immigrate to 3 the United States. As I moved to Colorado, my asthma 4 came back, and the question to my family was: We moved 5 to the United States in order to search for a better 6 lifestyle, to search for a better air quality, better 7 dignity, you know. And we moved from a Third World 8 country to avoid those Third World standards, and I come 9 to Colorado and I have received the same standards that 10 I was receiving in Venezuela. So for that, this is very 11 important for me. 12 Methane is one of the most significant drivers 13 of climate change and of health of the Latino community. 14When 14 percent of Latino children have asthma and 15 Latino communities are 40 percent most likely of having 16 asthma as any other ethnic group, it becomes a very 17personal issue and an issue that is affecting, as I said 18 before, one out of five Coloradans. 19 So that is why we're looking forward to 20 seeing stronger possible methane standards to finalize, 21 along with a rule to limit methane pollution from 22 existing sources, to achieve the full reduction of 23methane emissions that you guys have. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. Guerrero-Murphy.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 206 1 MS. GUERRERO-MURPHY: Yes, hi. I'm Sophia 2 Guerrero-Murphy. It's S-o-p-h-i-a; G-u-e-r-r-e-r-o, 3 hyphen, M-u-r-p-h-y. So I am also here speaking as a 4member of the Latino community. I grew up in Alamosa, 5 Colorado, which is in the southern end of the state, but 6 I come today from Jefferson County, which is where I 7 currently live. 8 The San Luis Valley is a place -- it's really 9 rural, for people who don't know. There's not a whole 10 lot of, like, huge carbon/methane producing industry. 11 But our air quality there is still atrocious because of 12 the way the weather works, and there are mountains, so 13 the things that get carried over the smaller mountains 14 on one side of the valley get stuck. We also have the 15 Sand Dunes, are there. It leaves behind sand and it 16 also leaves behind pollution. 17 So our air quality there, instead of like 18 being in a beautiful rural valley, is actually much 19 worse than the air quality on the Front Range. We 20 therefore have higher rates of many health issues, but 21particularly bronchial/respiratory health issue rates 22 there are pretty stunning. 23 And then in general -- I mean, that is, you 24 know, a very Latino-heavy area, but in general, as Hilda 25mentioned, the Latinos in this country, and really any

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 207 1 nonwhite children, are so much more likely to suffer 2 from respiratory issues, that a methane rule, that is 3 going to be affecting our overall air quality and 4 therefore your overall health. 5 And the health of your family is particularly 6 important for populations of color, disenfranchised 7 populations, because in addition to all of that, there's 8 less resilience, right, when you're being attacked by 9 climate change, because methane is ultimately one of our 10 biggest contributors to climate issues, climate change, 11 and you are in a community that doesn't necessarily have 12 the funds to recover from a disaster, a climate-related 13 disaster. You know, that's -- that's another issue. 14 So it's not just your air quality every day, 15but it's also the way that you can be resilient to 16 those. It's also the way that you, if you don't have 17 the funds to be able to move, right, like you heard some 18 really tragic stories today of people that are living in 19places that are highly polluted because they don't have 20 an option to be somewhere else, you know, either because 21 of their homes or they don't have the money to be 22 elsewhere. The list goes on. But we need to be 23protecting our citizens from those things, in their jobs 24 and their homes. They need to be healthy. 25 And in general, too, like this kind of rule

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 208 1 works, right? It just -- it works. We've seen it 2 happen in Colorado here. We've reduced an amazing 3 amount of methane pollution and that's fantastic. And 4 so having it be a federal regulation will give us better 5 air quality. And I know that seems really simple, but 6 there seems to be a notion we can regulate all we want 7 and it's not actually going to improve anything. But it 8 does. 9 We used to have lead in our gasoline; and five 10years after we made unleaded gasoline the standard, we 11had 95 percent less lead in our air. And thinking about 12 that now, you can't have lead in the air, we know that's 13 a toxic metal. That's disgusting. Hopefully, that's 14how people will be feeling about these high levels of 15methane, in the future; that it's toxic, right? 16 And right now it seems perfectly normal, but 17 it shouldn't be, because it's not okay for you. It's 18 not healthy. And we need to be healthy, we need to 19protect our citizens. 20 We are so lucky to live in a country where we 21 can give, like, testimonials like this, that can make 22 that kind of thing possible. And just, I would 23 reiterate, I really look forward to watching these 24 strong methane rules go through on the national level. 25 And then one more tag note is the importance

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 209 1 of baseline data because there's kind of a loophole at 2 the moment, where it's difficult to really gauge how 3 much methane's being controlled and reduced unless you 4 have really great baseline data. And so that should be 5 appropriate in that ruling. 6 Thank you. 7 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both very 8 much. 9 MS. NUCETE: I also don't have a copy because 10 I just spoke, sorry. 11 MR. GREEN: Okay. 12 MS. NUCETE: I can e-mail you stuff, if you 13 like. 14 MR. GREEN: Okay. We have two more. Our next 15 speakers are Susan Kohut -- I don't know if I pronounced 16 that wrong -- and Marilyn Ham. 17 MS. KOHUT: Hi. I'm Susan Kohut; it's 18 S-u-s-a-n, K-o-h-u-t. And I'm from Denver; originally 19 from New Jersey, but I've been in Colorado for over ten 20years and, as many people, moved out here for all of the 21wonderful things in the outdoors. 22 And just here today, briefly, I want to thank 23you for the opportunity to offer comments and really 24 appreciate the EPA taking the important first step to 25 control methane emissions from oil and gas sources.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 210 1 As we know, the oil and gas industry is the 2 largest industrial source of methane pollution, and the 3 EPA's proposal represents the first-ever methane 4 controls for the oil and gas industry. 5 Under the standard, oil and gas operators will 6 install controls that will reduce not only methane but 7 also smog- and soot-forming pollutants and hazardous 8 emissions, which will generate significant public health 9 benefits, in addition to climate benefits. 10 However, the rule only covers new and modified 11 infrastructures, even while existing sources are, by 12 far, the major source of problems. By 2018, nearly 13 90 percent of all methane emissions from the oil and gas 14 sector will come from sources now in existence, which 15 aren't covered under the proposal. 16 The U.S. cannot meet its international green17house gas reduction commitments unless it cuts methane 18 from oil and gas sources by 40 to 45 percent, from 2012 19 levels, by 2025. At best the current proposals will 20 keep methane emissions flat. We cannot achieve the 21 reductions needed unless EPA regulates existing sources 22 from the oil and gas sector. 23 While I support the EPA's efforts to develop 24methane standards from new and modified sources, the 25Agency must begin work on an existing source rule as it

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 211 1moves forward with the New Source Rule. 2 Colorado's one of this country's leaders when 3 it comes to reducing methane pollution, and in 2014 4 Colorado became the first state to directly regulate 5methane pollution. To that end, I hope the EPA will 6 strengthen and finalize these rules and move swiftly to 7 issue standards covering both new and existing sources. 8 This is a state of people who love the 9 outdoors, and with optimal methane controls in place, 10 fracking is still dangerous and unnecessary. And I 11 support a swift transition to clean energy, clean and 12 renewable energy, and energy efficiency. 13 Thank you. 14 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. Ham. 15 MS. HAM: My name is Marilyn Ham; 16 M-a-r-i-l-y-n, H-a-m. I'm a longtime resident of 17 Cheyenne, Wyoming. Thank you for the opportunity to 18 comment on the proposal to reduce oil and gas and 19 drilling production and facilities emissions. I believe 20 the reduction is important for public health and in 21 reducing impacts to our climate. Rules need to be 22 implemented that strengthen the public's right to clean, 23 safe air. It is my hope EPA will act promptly. 24 I am a member of the Cheyenne Area Landowners 25 Coalition and live in an area north and east of current

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 212 1 activity in Laramie County, Cheyenne, Wyoming. At the 2 present, Laramie County is experiencing the state's 3 greatest demand for Applications for Permit to Drill. 4 The applications currently number well beyond 2,000; and 5 even now, with the slowing in drilling, we still have 6 activity. I see the oil and gas trucks going down I-25 7 and U.S. 85, so I know we are still impacted. It has 8 not been long ago when a well just east of us was being 9 drilled that, for days, we had the odor of natural gas. 10 My husband, who suffers from asthma, complained about 11 it. 12 It has also been the last couple of weeks that 13 a study by NYU was touted on the news broadcast, that 14 stated that breathing air with minute levels of foreign 15 chemicals could shorten life expectancy by 3 percent; 16 another study said up to 10 percent. 17 Rules need to be strengthened in: One, 18 requirements to all existing wells, not only new wells; 19 two, the EPA should increase the proposed 95 percent 20 control of wet seal emissions to 98 percent control, 21which is achievable through current technology; for 22pneumatic pumps, also increase from 95 percent to 23 98 percent control through available technology, and 24with the Best Available Control Technology available 25 standard in Wyoming; remove the technical feasibility

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 213 1 exception, which creates a loophole that allows for 2 designing away of regulatory applicability; five, 3 industry should be using best practices in unloading 4 liquids, to prevent blowdown or venting of VOCs and HAP 5 emissions, and EPA should include those facilities in 6 their regulations; six, EPA should lower volatile 7 organic compound thresholds for storage tanks from 4 -- 8 from 6 tons a year to 4 tons per year. 9 Thank you for the opportunity to comment. We 10 know industry can and does perform at a higher standard 11 in many states. Strengthening the EPA rules should mean 12 a greater standard of performance in every state. 13 Thank you. 14 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both very 15much. And if we could get copies of your testimony, 16 that would be great. 17 All right. Our next commenters are Cherry 18 Hall and Casey Quinn. 19 We're doing a battery check, just real 20 quickly, on the microphones. So if you will give us 21 about ten minutes, that will be great. Thanks. 22 (Pause in the proceedings.) 23 MR. GREEN: All right. Ms. Hall, if you would 24 go first, please. 25 MS. HALL: I'm Cherry Hall. My first name is

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 214 1 spelled like cherry, and it's pronounced Sherry -- 2 MR. GREEN: Cherry, use the microphone, 3 please. 4 MS. HALL: Oh, I'm sorry. 5 MR. GREEN: So the court reporter can hear 6 you. 7 MS. HALL: Okay. I'm Cherry Hall. First name 8 is spelled like cherry, C-h-e-r-r-y; middle initial is 9 L; last name's Hall, H-a-l-l. I live in Cheyenne, 10 Wyoming, and I have since 2000. Prior to that, I lived 11 in Sheridan, Wyoming. 12 I've lived in Wyoming since 1989. I'm a 13 landowner and a grandmother, and that's why I'm here 14 today. I do have some professional credentials, but I 15 am here, again, speaking to you today as a landowner and 16 as a grandmother. I am concerned about environmental 17 issues, and I appreciate being able to be here today and 18 express my thoughts and my concerns to you. 19 First of all, I would ask the EPA to act 20 quickly to implement new rules that will strengthen the 21 rules that we already have; and we know that several 22 states are requiring this, regarding limiting air 23pollution emissions from the oil and gas industry. I 24 live in a subdivision about 10 miles north of Cheyenne. 25 I'm surrounded by oil wells, and I'm not happy.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 215 1 I would also ask that you require the proposed 2 rules to apply to all existing oil and gas well sites 3 and facilities, not just a few wells or a few 4 facilities. We need to apply the new rules to all 5 existing facilities. 6 Regarding compressors at transmission 7 facilities, we recommend that the EPA increase the 8 proposed 95 percent control to 98 percent control, and 9 this is readily available and achievable, as I 10 understand it. I am a member of the Powder River Basin 11 Council and am also a member of the Cheyenne Area 12 Landowners Coalition. 13 Regarding pneumatic pumps at well sites and 14 transmission facilities, we recommend an increase from 15 the proposed 95 percent, again, to the 98 percent 16 control. As I understand it, this is achievable and you 17have capability to do that. 18 I also request that the EPA remove technical 19 feasibility exceptions. If the well cannot be completed 20 with reduced emissions, it shouldn't be drilled, in the 21 first place. 22 And I thank you for letting me come and speak 23 to you today. It's a long trip from Cheyenne, but we're 24 always happy to come to Denver. We wish the Rockies 25would win a few more games.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 216 1 Thank you. 2 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you. Mr. Quinn. 3 MR. QUINN: Can you hear me? Got me? Okay. 4 Thank you for giving me the opportunity to be 5 here today. My name is Casey Quinn. That's C-a-s-e-y, 6 Q-u-i-n-n. I represent the members of Powder River 7 Basin Resource Council. Our council represents roughly 8 1,000 members, 1000-plus members, and about half of 9 those live near oil and gas production facilities. 10 First and foremost, we commend the EPA for 11heading in the right direction by seeking to cut oil and 12 gas emissions, for the sake of public health and 13 reducing climate impact. That said, we do believe these 14proposed rules should be taken a bit further if the EPA 15 is serious about limiting emissions. 16 I'm going to reiterate much of what Ms. Hall 17 said and Ms. Ham said. 18 Specifically, concerning compressors at 19 transmission facilities, we recommend that the EPA 20 increase the proposed 95 percent control of wet seal 21 emissions to 98 percent control. This is available and 22 achievable through current combustion technology. 23 Regarding pneumatic pumps at well sites and 24 transmission facilities, we recommended an increase from 25 the proposed 95 percent control to 98 percent control.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 217 1Again, this is achievable through current combustion 2 technology and is the presumptive Best Available Control 3 Technology standard in Wyoming. 4 In terms of the green completions, we request 5 the EPA remove the technical feasibility exception. We 6 believe it invites poor design or even creates a 7 loophole that encourages a deliberate designing away of 8 the regulatory applicability. We believe that if the 9 well cannot be completed with the standards set forth, 10 it should not be drilled. 11 For liquids unloading facilities, we recommend 12 that EPA include those facilities in the regulation and 13 require that emissions during liquids unloading be 14minimized with current best practices. Wyoming requires 15 this statewide, addressing liquids unloading through 16minor source permit conditions. 17 These conditions include: VOC and HAP 18 emissions resulting from episodes of blowdown or venting 19must be minimized to the extent practicable; manual 20 blowdown and venting must be attended, to minimize the 21 duration of such events; and records must be kept 22 detailing the duration, process conditions, control 23measures taken, and estimated emissions from each event. 24 We also request that the EPA lower the 25proposed VOCs emission threshold for storage tanks from

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 218 1 6 tons per year to 4 tons per year. Wyoming already 2 enforces the 4-tons-per-year threshold for tank-flashing 3 emissions in Wyoming's Upper Green River Basin area, and 4 requires controls for all tanks, regardless of the 5 emission levels, in the Jonah-Pinedale area. 6 And then, most importantly, all these proposed 7 rules only apply to new wells. We feel that if the EPA 8 is serious about limiting oil and gas emissions, we need 9 to apply these rules to all existing facilities. 10 Industry is more than capable of performing to 11 a higher standard, which is shown in several states. We 12 request that the EPA strengthen the proposed rules, to 13 implement this higher standard of performance. 14 Thank you. 15 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. Could 16we get copies of your testimony? 17 All right. Our next presenters are Chris 18 Eaton and Andrew Casper. 19 MR. EATON: Hi. My name is Chris Eaton. I'm 20 an attorney with Earthjustice here in Denver. I want to 21 thank you all for the opportunity to comment here on 22 EPA's proposed methane pollution standards. 23 Eartjustice is a national public interest law 24 firm dedicated -- 25 MR. GREEN: I'm sorry, Mr. Eaton. Could I get

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 219 1 you to spell your name for the court reporter. 2 MR. EATON: Oh, sorry. E-a-t-o-n is the last 3 name. 4 Earthjustice is a national public interest law 5 firm dedicated to protecting the environment through 6 mitigation and advocacy. Our Rocky Mountain office, 7 here in Denver, previously was involved in Colorado's 8 rulemaking to limit methane emissions in the oil and gas 9 sector, and we're pleased to see the EPA following 10 Colorado's lead on the front lines. 11 Earthjustice supports EPA's proposal to cut 12methane pollution from new and modified oil and gas 13 sources. These standards are a commonsense step toward 14protecting our climate from a very potent greenhouse 15 gas. At the same time, these standards will have the 16 co-benefit of reducing harmful air pollution affecting 17 communities that are on the front lines of oil and gas 18 development. 19 We're particularly encouraged that EPA has 20proposed broadly applicable methane leak detection and 21 repair requirements for the oil and gas sector. We're 22 also pleased that EPA has included downstream sources in 23 the proposed standards; namely, the transmission and 24 storage segment. And we're happy to see that the Agency 25 is addressing the harmful practice of venting gas during

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 220 1 oil well completions. 2 Colorado's successful regulation of methane 3 emissions from the oil and gas sector demonstrates that 4 achieving meaningful emissions reductions from the 5 sector is entirely feasible and has very little 6 downside. In fact, since Colorado's rule was adopted 7 last year, oil -- oil field production and employment 8 have increased in the state. But while we so generously 9 support EPA's proposal, there are several ways that we 10 would like to see EPA strengthen its standards. 11 For one, EPA should expand the scope of the 12 standards to include several other key pieces of 13 equipment and practices, specifically liquids unloading 14 operations, storage vessels, and compressors at well 15 sites. These are significant sources of methane leaks. 16 Low-cost controls exist that can be applied to these 17practices and equipment to reduce these leaks and should 18 be included as a part of the standards. 19 Second, EPA should strengthen standards for 20 leak inspection. Performing inspections only 21 semiannually is much too infrequent and inadequate; 22monthly or even quarterly inspections would be -- are 23more appropriate to identify and repair leaks in a 24 timely manner. 25 In addition, allowing facilities to skip

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 221 1 inspections based on prior results has the potential to 2 increase harmful leaks. For one, past performance 3 doesn't accurately predict current or future 4performance; new leaks pop up all the time. And it sort 5 of creates an incentive to ignore leaks, in order to be 6 able to skip the next inspection. 7 Finally, the proposed rule allows oil and gas 8 companies too much leeway to flare off natural gas 9 instead of capturing it. Flaring wastes valuable 10 natural gas and increases pollution. So EPA should 11 allow flaring only in exceptional circumstances, when it 12 is genuinely not possible to capture the gas for sale or 13 on-site use. 14 With those suggested improvements, these 15 standards for new and modified sources represent a great 16 commonsense first step in a regulatory scheme that, we 17would hope, ultimately leads to methane emissions 18 standards for existing sources, just like we have here 19 in Colorado. 20 These existing sources will be responsible for 21 the vast majority of methane emissions from the oil and 22 gas sector for the foreseeable future; nearly 90 percent 23 of methane emissions in that sector will come from 24 existing sources in 2018. So it's imperative that the 25 EPA build on its initial efforts and expeditiously move

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 222 1 forward to limit these from existing sources. 2 So I thank you for your time. 3 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Mr. Casper. 4 MR. CASPER: Good afternoon. My name is -- my 5 name is Andrew Casper, and I serve as regulatory counsel 6 to the Colorado Oil and Gas Association, or COGA. COGA, 7 through its over 300-member companies, fosters and 8 promotes the beneficial, efficient, responsible, and 9 environmentally sound development, production, and use 10 of Colorado oil and natural gas. 11 COGA has a long history of working 12 cooperatively with -- with the state, in a number of air 13 quality-related matters. COGA was a key participant in 14 the 2014 Colorado rulemaking, often referred to as the 15 "Methane Rule," upon which many of these new NSPS 16 amendments are based. During this process, we worked 17 closely with the Division to craft the most workable 18 rules possible, sometimes challenging certain proposals, 19 and in the end we learned a tremendous amount. We are 20 encouraged that the EPA's willing to learn from our 21 experience, appreciate the opportunity to provide public 22 comment, and I now offer these comments in that spirit. 23 This industry has seen a surge in regulatory 24 activity over the past several years, both at the state 25 and federal levels. Nowhere has this -- that activity

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 223 1 been more pervasive than here in Colorado. Whether it 2 is the original Quad O NSPS, the impending BLM venting 3 and flaring rules, the ever-tightening ozone standards, 4 the 2014 Colorado Regulation No. 7 methane rules, or 5 this new rulemaking package at issue today, our members 6 are seemingly in perpetual rulemaking or rule 7 implementation mode. 8 Meanwhile, the facts tell a story undeserving 9 of such intense scrutiny. By EPA's own numbers, methane 10 and other air emissions from this sector have declined 11 substantially over the past 30 years, and despite a 12 significant uptick in production, this -- despite a 13 significant uptick in production. This is due to a 14variety of factors, including voluntary programs, the 15 2012 NSPS, and important advances in technology and air 16pollution control. 17 Here in Colorado air quality along the Front 18 Range has never been better, despite continued and 19 significant population and mobile -- mobile source 20 growth. Can improvements be made? Of course, and they 21have. Our members operate the most highly controlled 22 and environmentally responsible facilities in the 23 country, if not the world. This has yielded not only 24 invaluable economic benefits, but it's also a remarkable 25 environmental success story.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 224 1 As EPA embarks on yet another major rule2making, we urge the Agency to vigorously address the 3 fundamental questions, like: What is the public 4 benefit, health and otherwise, from these rules? Are 5 they necessary, and in what form, given that the 2012 6 rules have barely had time to take effect? And whether 7 the global climate change and other air quality benefits 8 being promised will actually be realized. 9 I would also like to provide you with some 10 brief comments on Colorado's experience with the 2014 11 regulations. It is critical to stress that Colorado 12 operators are in the early stages of implementing these 13 new Colorado rules. Needless to say, there have been 14bumps along the road during the implementation phase. 15We don't yet have a full understanding about what may be 16working and what may be not. We don't yet have data 17 regarding the regulatory burdens and costs imposed by 18 the Colorado -- the Colorado rules. Thus, it would be 19premature for the EPA to use Colorado estimates to 20 justify new federal rules; it would be inadequate rule21making to merely adopt the Colorado rules nationwide. 22 Moreover, there are several reasons to 23 approach the Colorado model with caution. First, they 24 are state-only rules and have not been EPA approved as 25part of the State Implementation Plan, meaning their air

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 225 1 quality benefits have not been proven, to any reasonable 2 degree of scientific certainty. 3 Second, the DJ, Denver-Jules (sic), Basin is 4 very unique. There is an unusual amount of 5 infrastructure, pipelines, and roads in place that make 6 implementation of the Colorado rules, and the LDAR 7 program in particular, unique compared with other, more 8 rural areas across the country. Because travel costs 9 and the presence of infrastructure tend to be 10 significant cost drivers for rules like those being 11 contemplated, what may be cost effective in Colorado may 12 not be elsewhere. 13 In closing, COGA appreciates the opportunity 14 to provide this public comment. We encourage the Agency 15 to remain cognizant of the significant regulatory 16 challenges facing our industry and to coordinate its 17 regulatory efforts across federal agencies, with the 18 states. In addition, we very much encourage the Agency 19 to formally recognize established, robust, and stringent 20programs like Colorado's and allow operators the 21 flexibility to comply with such state programs in place 22 under federal requirements. 23 Thank you. 24 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. Our 25 next speaker is Angela Miller.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 226 1 Mr. Casper, if you have a written testimony, 2 could you leave that with us, please. 3 This must be Abigail. 4 MS. MILLER: Yeah. 5 MR. GREEN: I don't think we can hear you. 6 MS. MILLER: Is this on? 7 MR. GREEN: Yeah, you can just hold it, if you 8 like. And if you would, would you state your name and 9 spell it for the court reporter as well. Thank you. 10 MS. MILLER: My name is Angela Miller; 11A-n-g-e-l-a, M-i-l-l-e-r. And this is Abigail Miller. 12 We live in Superior and want to thank you for allowing 13 us to speak today. 14 The gas and oil industry is expanding at a 15 rapid rate, and the rules that we're discussing here 16 today have a significant opportunity to greatly put -- 17 to put protections, that are greatly needed, in place 18 for air quality and public health. And the two in hand 19 -- the two go hand in hand, and they cannot be 20 separated. I personally have asthma, and I'm here to 21 tell you, from personal experience, that the days when 22 the smog is visible, a boatload of medication will not 23make me feel okay, and sometimes we have to alter our 24plans. 25 The rules that we are discussing here today

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 227 1 need to apply to everyone, every industry, and they need 2 to apply everywhere. No one should be allowed to be 3 exempt. We need to regulate airborne toxins, including 4 the ozone-inducing VOCs and the methane emissions. 5 Methane is the primary constituent of natural gas and is 6 a potent greenhouse gas. Methane is 80 -- 86 times more 7 potent than carbon dioxide over a 20-year time frame. 8 The gas and oil industry is the largest industrial 9 source of methane. The rules we discuss here today can 10 significantly reduce dangerous air pollution. 11 I'm asking the EPA to go even further and 12protect -- can you guys hear me? I feel like I'm 13 echoing. 14 MR. GREEN: Yes. 15 MS. MILLER: -- and protect what is really 16 important, and that's our children and grandchildren's 17 future. They need clean air to breathe. Although we 18 can leave them money in our wills and trusts, they 19 cannot breathe money. Some people who are cynical and 20 driven by money might laugh and say, yes, you can. I'm 21here to tell you, you cannot breathe money. 22 So the legislation we're talking about is 23 critical. It covers only new and modified 24 infrastructure. This is a wonderful step in the right 25 direction, but I have a concern about the existing

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 228 1 sources being a huge contributor to air pollution. So 2 it makes sense that the draft rules also monitor 3 emissions and require adequate reporting that deal with 4 existing methane emissions as well. 5 And on a sidebar, I know that representatives 6 from gas and oil companies are listening, and I want to 7 encourage you to expand your portfolios to include 8 renewable energy. Stockholders will get on board 9 because we all need clean air. And Colorado offers a 10 lot of sunshine and a lot of land. This is a perfect 11place to extend and expand the renewable energies. I 12 know that the change is difficult, but it's possible, 13 and we're long past due for some much-needed change in 14 the right direction, for our kids and grandkids. 15 We need to ensure that the final standards 16 include requirements for all methane-emitting sources in 17 the gas and oil industry. We need source operators to 18 use zero-emitting equipment or capture gas for sale or 19 beneficial use on-site, not flare captured gas, unless 20 it's entirely impossible to do so; not difficult or 21 expensive, but impossible. There is a difference. More 22 frequent leak inspections are also needed, at least four 23per year, and possibly more for compressor stations. We 24need to reduce our greenhouse gases, and the time to do 25 that is now. At best, this current proposal will keep

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 229 1 emissions flat, and that's good; however, to see a 2 reduction, we need a little bit more change. 3 Colorado has some methane regulations in 4place; however, in 2013 oil and natural gas operations, 5 unfortunately, wasted enough methane to meet the needs 6 of over 1 million cars, and I think that's significant. 7 Also, there was enough wasted that could have heated -- 8 it could have went to heating and cooking to a town the 9 size of Colorado Springs. More than 3 million of us 10 here in Colorado have to breathe in areas where the 11 ozone levels are not deemed healthy. And I can tell 12you, as I've mentioned with my asthma, on these days 13 when those levels are high, all of the medications, 14 trips to my doctor's office, still don't make me feel 15 good. 16 In 2012 a study found that emissions from 17 unconventional natural gas development caused health 18 risk for folks living and working near the well pads. 19 So I have to ask, Seriously, what are we doing? We need 20 clean air. So again I'm going to reference our children 21 and future generations and ask that we make some strong 22 changes. 23 I want to thank the EPA for proposing methane 24 standards for most of the same sources included in the 25 2012 standards for VOCs. It is promising that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 230 1 regulations have extended to sources that are the 2 transmission and storage segment. I am, however, asking 3 the EPA to quantify and monetize the public health 4 benefits that the rule will generate by also reducing 5 emissions of VOCs. I would like to encourage the EPA to 6 include, in its cost benefit analysis, the monetary 7 savings that would add up with the sale of conserved gas 8 in the transmission and storage segment. This is a 9 significant benefit for everyone. 10 I want to say -- 11 MR. GREEN: I'm sorry. I'm going to have to 12 ask you to wrap it up. 13 MS. MILLER: Okay. I want to say that we just 14 all need clean air to breathe, and our kids and future 15 generations are depending on us. This is the time to 16put the regulations in air -- in action so that we can 17have clean air now and in the future. 18 Thank you so much for your time today. 19 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Thank you very much. 20 Our next speakers will be Catherine Sundvall 21 and Becky English. 22 Just as a quick reminder, a couple of things: 23 When you start out, if you could state your name and 24 spell it for the court reporter, that would be helpful. 25 And then, secondly, you're limited to five

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 231 1minutes. So the way this clock works is that when the 2 yellow light comes on, that means you have a minute 3 left; and when the red light comes on, that means your 4 time is up. 5 So thank you very much. 6 MS. SUNDVALL: My name is Catherine Sundvall. 7 It's C-a-t-h-e-r-i-n-e, S-u-n-d-v-a-l-l. My background 8 is, I'm a Colorado state-trained master gardener. 9 And I have gone to sites in Weld County, and 10 especially the town of Erie, where we have found that 11 there's neighborhoods near places that are fracking, 12 that we see damage in the plants and the landscape, in 13 the lawns, and especially in any areas where they 14have -- they have landscape fabric that's put down 15 underneath the -- the rocks, rock mulch; in places 16 that's really common, like in between roads and -- and 17 the residential lawns or the residential landscaping. 18And what we're noticing is, especially with the 19 landscape fabric, that the -- there's something coming 20 up from the ground. 21 And it just started when the fracking began, 22 so logic says that it's caused by methane or other kinds 23 of gases that are coming up out of the fracking zones. 24 And we have noticed that one -- especially one 25 location where we had irises that had been planted there

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 232 1 and growing for 30 years and therefore the irises were a 2 very dense mat and created like a barrier between the 3 surface and the soil; that that would start to collect 4 whatever this is and kill the irises. And these irises 5 were growing for 30 years, so all of a sudden they died. 6 And the death -- we did some research with 7 CSU, and the death of these plants are very similar to 8 what happens when you have natural gas mains break and 9 it damages trees and it damages bushes and grasses and 10 surrounding the -- the main break. So, you know, using 11 deduction, we see that -- we're thinking that the 12 fracking is causing this landscape damage that we're 13 seeing. And it's concerning because this is surrounding 14people's homes, this is surrounding playgrounds, this is 15 surrounding parks. 16 And the fracking isn't necessarily right next 17 door. There's some distance between where the fracking 18 has happened, and the wells, and where we see this type 19 of damage emerging. 20 So I ask the EPA to investigate this, 21 especially in the town of Erie, where we have fracking 22pretty close to residences, to validate that the damage 23 we're seeing is caused by natural gas, and that the 24natural gas is coming out of the ground in places that 25we did not expect it to, and that the fracking isn't

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 233 1 necessarily contained to where the oil and gas industry 2 thinks that the emissions are occurring. 3 So thank you very much. 4 MR. GREEN: Thank you. 5 MS. ENGLISH: Good afternoon. Am I audible? 6 MR. GREEN: Yes. 7 MS. ENGLISH: I'm Becky English; B-e-c-k-y, 8 E-n-g-l-i-s-h. And I just want to thank you, EPA, for 9 holding these hearings and for promulgating these rules. 10 It's a beautiful day in Denver, thanks to EPA. 11And I say that because I grew up in these parts, and I 12 remember the horrible brown cloud of the late '60s, 13 early '70s. And then EPA came in and started, you know, 14making sure that our smog problem continued to decrease 15 over time, even as our population continues to increase. 16 So thank you, EPA. 17 I'm here today as one of many representatives 18 of the Sierra Club. I'm the vice chair of our executive 19 committee here in Colorado, of the Rocky Mountain 20 Chapter. I am a member of the Rocky Mountain Chapter's 21 legislative committee, and I'm the clean energy 22 emissions specialist. So I'm certainly not an expert in 23 oil and gas matters, but I wanted to come and speak 24 today because this is obviously such an important 25 development.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 234 1 First, I want to thank EPA for promulgating 2 these rules, which represent a very important step 3 forward in reducing the accumulation of methane in our 4 atmosphere, which is obviously such a dangerous gas, as 5 you know, causing horrible short- and medium-term 6 temperature rise for our atmosphere. So I recognize 7 it's not easy, in the current political climate, to make 8 a great rule like this happen, so I want to thank you 9 for all that you've endured in this process and -- and 10 for making this happen. 11 Second, I want to urge you to use the methane 12 rules as a mere point of departure and strengthen them 13 considerably, over time, quite aggressively. Even 14 Colorado's rules are stronger. And, believe me, it's 15 not easy to oppose the oil and gas industry in our 16 state, because this industry, as you may have observed, 17 is sometimes capable of being pretty reckless. And so I 18 just want to urge you to stay the course, make these 19 rules stronger as time goes by. 20 Third, I want to point out that state-of-the21 art technology is available right now to -- to really 22 clean up the methane in our environment. We have a 23 wonderful company down in -- west of Colorado Springs, 24 Colorado, in a town called Woodland Park. The company 25 is called Sturman Industries, S-t-u-r-m-a-n.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 235 1 And Eddie Sturman has come up with a wonderful 2 engine that can do a lot of different things, but one of 3 the applications is that it can be located along the 4 seams of a gas pipeline; it can find the -- I mean, it 5 can be located right there where the pipe junctures are; 6 it can detect any fugitive leaks, and it can capture 7 them. And it can even -- you know, with auxiliary 8 equipment, it can deliver it to a nearby pipeline or 9 waiting trucks or whatever, waiting tanks. 10 This technology is here now. There's other 11wonderful technology on the horizon and already 12 available. So I don't want you to ever fall for the 13 line that it's just too expensive or just too impossible 14 to create the technology that is necessary to do methane 15 capture. 16 By the way, this technology can be powered in 17 the field, without being hooked up to the grid, with 18 similar energy. 19 Fourth, I want to encourage you to enforce the 20methane rules and all the Clean Power Plans with great 21vigor. This Clean Power Plan and the methane recovery 22has the potential to greatly accelerate the necessary 23 transition to 100 percent renewable energy, along with 24 serious measures for energy efficiency and conservation 25 that we can all do on a local basis, including major

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 236 1 energy demand reduction that people and utilities can 2 all do and all sectors can participate in, including the 3 transportation sector, where I happen to be an 4 entrepreneur. 5 I'm delighted that you're doing this, and I 6 just want to urge you to keep going. Thank you so much. 7 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. English, if we 8 could get a copy of your testimony, that would be great. 9 MS. ENGLISH: I'm going to have to send that 10 to you later. My computer broke today, and so I'm going 11 to have to print that out for you later. 12 MR. GREEN: Sounds good. 13 MS. ENGLISH: I can do it electronically too, 14 right? 15 MR. GREEN: Yes, thank you. 16 All right. Our next speakers are Kent 17Abernethy and Reverend Jessica Abell. If you would 18 start out by stating and spelling your names, that 19 would be helpful. Thank you. 20 MR. ABERNETHY: My name is Kent Abernethy; 21 K-e-n-t, A-b-e-r-n-e-t-h-y. I'm a member of the Sierra 22 Club, Rocky Mountain Chapter. 23 I was born and raised in Denver, Colorado. 24 Excuse me. In the 1970s Denver had the worst air in the 25 country, second only to Los Angeles, California. My

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 237 1 lungs were weak and I was thought to have a minor case 2 of asthma. 3 Well, thanks to the EPA and emission controls, 4 Denver's air is cleaner now than it was in the '70s. 5 And my lungs are good. Doesn't sound right -- like they 6 are right now, but my lungs are good and they're free of 7 asthma. 8 The EPA must have the strongest rules 9 possible, in order to safeguard the health of our 10 citizens, for our health and the air that we breathe, 11 and the health of our planet's climate. 12 Note that today the Pope was visiting, and 13 both the Pope and the President, both, spoke out that 14 the time to act on climate change is now. And it's an 15 absurd waste of our resources to burn off methane energy 16 in the pursuit of oil and natural gas. 17 I realize that the EPA's job has been made 18more difficult when horizontal fracking was introduced 19 and was exempted from the Clean Water Act. Today the -- 20 today, enforce the strongest rules possible for our air 21 in Colorado, the nation, and as the Pope and President 22 emphasized, the world community. Tomorrow, address 23 irreversible contamination of our water due to fracking. 24 Thank you. 25 MR. GREEN: Thank you.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 238 1 MS. ABELL: Jessica Abell, A-b-e-l-l. Good 2 afternoon. On behalf of Colorado and New Mexico 3 Interfaith Power & Light, I wanted to offer a huge thank 4you to the EPA for these hearings. We applaud your 5 commitment to the public voice. My name is Jessica 6 Abell, and I serve as the project director for Colorado 7 Interfaith Power & Light. 8 The Interfaith Power & Light movement has a 9 presence in over 40 states and represents thousands of 10 congregations throughout America. These Muslim, Jewish, 11 Buddhist, B'hai, Unitarian, Pagan, Mormon, Christian, 12 and other various houses of worship are places where the 13 sacredness of Creation is a common part of separate 14 scripture and separate religious practice. 15 This morning Pope Francis was welcomed to our 16 nation's capital, and tomorrow he addresses Congress. 17 We know that a significant portion of what he will be 18 saying is a reflection of his recent encyclical, Laudato 19 Si: On Care of Our Common Home. Pope Francis provides 20 leadership for all people of faith in his call for us to 21 take seriously our role to care for Creation and to be 22 good stewards of the Earth. Now, I'm a Baptist 23preacher, not a Catholic, but my own faith nods along 24with this Pope more often than not. 25 There are many religious conservatives who

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 239 1 argue that Papal teachings are not the proper place for 2 environmentalism; they wouldn't ask a spiritual leader 3 for policy advice. But we in the Interfaith Power & 4 Light movement believe that no justice-oriented policy 5 change has ever happened in America without the faith 6 voice present. Not a one, ever. 7 The abolition of slavery, the suffrage of 8 women, the Civil Rights movement were provided passion, 9 preaching, and a moral voice by people of faith. And 10 now our moral compass as Americans must be oriented to 11 include the protection and stewardship of Creation. 12 I am bringing with me today a letter from New 13 Mexico Interfaith Power & Light that is signed by faith 14 leaders there. More signatures and similar letters will 15be generated throughout the region as we look toward the 16 upcoming climate talks in Paris. The regional IPL 17 communities here, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado 18 and western Texas, have special care and concerns for 19 the tribal peoples living at our center. Many of us are 20 nurturing and seeking relationships within the Four 21 Corners, Navajoland, and other places contained within 22what is called Indian Country. 23 In this letter from New Mexico faith leaders, 24 they commend the EPA for proposing increased oversight 25 and regulation of methane within Indian Country. These

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 240 1 are important steps. 2 The letter says, "The new proposed methane 3 rules are a moral step in the right direction to address 4 the health implications of methane leaks with toxic 5 chemicals such as cancer causing benzene and smog 6 forming pollutants that trigger asthma. Curbing methane 7 pollution is critical because it is over 80 times more 8 potent than carbon dioxide in the first 20 years after 9 release and is responsible for one-quarter of human made 10 climate warming. If federal action by the BLM and EPA 11 are not taken, methane pollution from the oil and 12 natural gas industry is projected to increase around 13 25 percent over the next 10 years." 14 I have copies of this letter to leave with you 15 today. 16 Pope Francis reminds us that "Human-induced 17 climate change is a scientific reality. And its 18 effective control is a moral imperative for humanity." 19 The recent Islamic Declaration on Global Climate Change 20 calls followers of all faiths to specific actions of 21protection and stewardship. This is the time to heal 22many of the wounds we have wrought on our land. 23 We know that pollution is not discrete, that 24 it is not belched from industry to stay in just one 25place. Whether it be an accidental spill into a river

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 241 1 that then flows through various states and jurisdictions 2 or the dispersion of methane that these proposed rules 3 would curb, toxicity spreads. 4 An ethic of regionalism and a spirit of 5 cooperation must be on your minds as you consider oil 6 and mineral policies on tribal lands. There is no place 7 for disrespect or colonialism when we are discussing our 8 common human roles as environmental protectors. 9 Federal agencies like yours can nurture 10 healthy and regional local solutions. Perhaps people of 11 faith and leaders in the Interfaith Power & Light 12movement can be of service to all parties as you engage 13 in the struggles of negotiating oil and mineral rights 14 and regulations with various voices, both sovereign and 15 corporate. However you move forward, know that we 16 support this action of curbing methane pollution. 17 Thank you for the opportunity to address you 18 today. You and yours will be in our prayers. 19 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. And 20 if we can get copies of your testimony, that would be 21helpful. 22 Okay. I don't have any more cards at this 23 time. Is there somebody in the audience that wants to 24 testify? 25 Come on up. If you would start out by stating

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 242 1 your name and spelling it out, I would appreciate it. 2 MS. SEEMAN: Tell me if I'm too loud. 3 MR. GREEN: No, you're okay. 4 MS. SEEMAN: All righty. My name is Joan 5 Seeman. And I am here to -- 6 MR. GREEN: Will you spell it out for us, 7 please. 8 MS. SEEMAN: It's J-o-a-n, Joan; and Seeman, 9 S-e-e-m-a-n. 10 MR. GREEN: Thanks. 11 MS. SEEMAN: I'm here today to thank EPA for 12 taking a very aggressive move in this country. I mean, 13 it's just -- it's thrilling. Thank you very much. That 14 is a very lengthy document that was produced. There 15were a lot of issues in the document. 16 But first let me say that you have absolutely 17 embarked on one of the most serious issues in the 18 country and the world. Climate change is undeniably a 19problem, with devastating impacts. Climate change has 20 harmful public health impacts. The Clean Power Plan is 21 an undeniable economic opportunity to move forward; 22 clean energy, creating jobs and economic growth. 23 And climate change is also a undeniable human 24 rights issue. I helped a community many years ago move 25 away from the Cherokee Power Plant in Denver, Colorado.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 243 1 They literally were under the emissions and the down2 draft emissions and upset conditions. And it was legal. 3 It was legal. And many people were impacted, and they 4 had to seek legal advice to get out of there. 5 And while at this point we are looking at 6 generating standards that are good for tall stacks, 7 disbursement, easy disbursement, et cetera, it is still 8 important that we have to look at the issue called 9 location. Most of the general public believes that the 10 EPA sets standards based on location. We here in 11 Colorado have learned, and I've certainly learned 12 throughout the years, location is not what these 13 standards are all about. So many that are impacted 14 locally, with generators and emission points that are in 15 their backyard, are concerned. 16 But generally speaking, as we look at what the 17 EPA has done with the Clean Power Plan, they definitely 18 have moved ahead to help us undo decades of dirty power 19plants. Air pollution from these power plants have 20 caused life-threatening illnesses, child asthma, and 21 it's cost billions of dollars. And we all pay the price 22 for this pollution. And now as the President has moved 23 forward and the EPA has moved on these proposals, the 24public is definitely grateful for curbing dangerous 25 carbon pollution for the first time. And so the Clean

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 244 1 Power Plan gives us that opportunity to move forward and 2 begin to address how dangerous these power plants are. 3 One issue, though, that has come to my 4 attention, and it's a local issue, and I really didn't 5 know how to begin to help the public understand, that 6 the EPA has an hierarchy of waste management. And in 7 this document that's been produced, there are folks that 8 were very concerned about EPA's -- that they don't call 9 it an exemption; it is an incentive that the public is 10 very concerned about. 11 I've been called about a zoo here in Denver 12 that has been funded by Western Energy Alliance, and 13 they wanted to partner and had partnered with the zoo to 14bring up a waste energy facility. There's a big debate. 15 This is gasification. This is pyrolysis. This is 16plasma gasification. This is not an incinerator. We 17have a war going on in Colorado locally, with the EPA 18 defining this system as an incinerator. And what we're 19 learning is, it is gasification incineration; it is the 20production of syngas, a manufacturing of syngas, in the 21 zoo, in City Park, in the neighborhood. 22 And it was difficult to help them understand, 23 because they were concerned about the EPA and concerned 24 that the location seemed to be a problem. And, you 25 know, again, they don't understand. Again, as I

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 245 1 emphasized at the beginning, EPA role is not to prevent 2 based on location. 3 And so -- 4 MR. GREEN: I'm sorry, I have to ask you to 5 close. 6 MS. SEEMAN: I will close. Sorry about that. 7 So dilution is not the solution to pollution, 8 and we have a problem here in Denver. And the hierarchy 9 of EPA's waste management is helping to at least move 10 that along, which is absolutely fabulous. 11 And in the end, I do hope that you'll look 12 closely at the document that incentivizes bulk garbage 13 burning, because we're seeing that we may be heading 14back to a point where we have incinerators in our 15backyard, and that's what appears here. 16 So thank you again. And the community really 17 does appreciate what the EPA's doing. And thank you. 18 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. And if 19you'll leave us a copy of your testimony, we would 20 appreciate it. 21 MS. SEEMAN: I can send it. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you. Is there anyone else 23 that would like to testify? 24 All right. We're going to keep the hearing 25 open. We've had folks trickling in all afternoon, so

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 246 1 we'll just stay in an open status until the next person 2 shows up. 3 Did you want to testify? 4 MS. SWAIN: I was scheduled at 4:15, so I 5 didn't want to -- 6 MR. GREEN: Come on up. 7 MS. SWAIN: -- jump the gun. 8 MR. GREEN: Nope, that's fine. 9 MS. SWAIN: Where do I go? 10 MR. GREEN: Have a seat. And if you can start 11 out by stating your name and spelling it out for us, 12 that would be great. 13 MS. SWAIN: I'm Lauren Swain. I live in north 14 Denver, just about five miles northwest of here, 15 something like that. And -- 16 MR. GREEN: Please, if you could, spell out 17your name for us. 18 MS. SWAIN: I'm sorry. Lauren Swain; Swain, 19 S-w-a-i-n. 20 THE REPORTER: Spell your first name. 21 MS. SWAIN: L-a-u-r-e-n; S-, as in Sam, 22w-a-i-n, as in Nancy. 23 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you. 24 MS. SWAIN: Pardon me. I'm here to say that 25while we're thankful for the attention that is being

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 247 1 given to methane pollution and the climate hazard that 2 it presents, we always have to acknowledge that new 3 regulations are not to be celebrated. When new 4 regulations are sought, it is automatically an admission 5 of the failure of the previous regulations to adequately 6 protect our environment, our climate, and/or human 7 health. And we've known about these problems for a long 8 time. 9 I'm here to say that Colorado's rules and 10 regulations are not adequate. We still have people's 11 neighborhoods threatened with toxic emissions; with 24/7 12 noise with truck traffic; with the threats to their 13 water supply from drilling, well bores, and spills; in 14 addition to potential for thermogenic contamination from 15 the frack zones. 16 That's the least of our worries because we 17have routine spills at sites across the state and 18 sometimes blowout with massive amounts of toxic water 19 spreading over the landscape. And we don't want these 20 in our neighborhoods. And these rules will not prevent 21people from being subject to these hazards in their 22 neighborhoods, and they are not enough. 23 So in addition, I'm concerned that the capture 24 of methane may demand the construction of more pipe25 lines. Pipelines leak. Pipelines lead to explosions.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 248 1 Pipelines are also a problem. They are not the answer 2 if we're going to capture methane. 3 The management of methane is not an easy 4 thing. And I appreciate you taking on the task with 5 these rules that are projected to reduce methane by 6 something like 25 to 30 percent over the next few years. 7 We're lucky, on a good day, if the enforcement is 8 adequate. If we're not relying on an industry 9 self-reporting, on a good day we'll get cuts like that, 10 25 or 30 percent. 11 But there are no plans to cut the number of 12wells being drilled, so there's nothing to prevent 13 25 and 30 percent more wells being drilled very quickly 14 and making up, essentially -- you know, not right on the 15money with the numbers, but essentially completely 16 erasing all the gains that these new rules present; you 17 know, would present ideally. 18 And, of course, even with our weak rules that 19 are not protecting people here in Colorado, at least 20 they were kind enough to apply them to existing wells. 21And we're asking the EPA for the same kindness. 22 And I don't think "kindness" is the right 23 word. It is not a favor to provide good rules, that 24protect people, to the American public. It is the 25 responsibility of our government to do that; not to

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 249 1 listen to industry, but to listen to us and protect our 2 health from the benzene, hydrogen sulfide, and 3 formaldehyde emissions that have been detected and 4measured, right under people's noses, at four to eight 5 times what is a safe level set by the EPA. 6 People are breathing in toxins that the EPA 7 says they should not breathe, and that's not acceptable. 8 And if you can't -- if our current laws are not 9 protecting us from that, how can we trust that this law 10 will protect our climate? We need trust. We need 11 aggressive laws. These are not problems that go away 12 because of our good intentions. These are not problems 13 that go away because our opponents are intimidating us 14 or that we have to win the election. These are problems 15 of real people on our only planet, our only home. 16 And I hope these rules make a difference, and 17 I hope they're applied across the board. And I'm quite 18 sure that it won't be enough difference until our 19 neighborhoods are protected from toxin emissions, ozone 20pollution, the threat of spills, and global warming 21 itself that is sure to result from weak rules and weak 22 enforcement. 23 And I know that you can do better, and I know 24 that we need to do better as soon as possible, meaning 25we don't wait. We need clean air, clean water, and we

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 250 1 need it now. 2 Thank you. 3 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. If we can 4 get a copy of your testimony, I would appreciate it. 5 Come on up. Do we have anybody else that 6 wants to testify at this time as well? Come on, if 7 you're ready. No? 8 All right. If you would start out by stating 9 your name and spelling it out for us, I'd appreciate it. 10 MR. FIELD: My name is Robert Alexander Field. 11 Field is spelled F-, Freddy, i-e-l-d. Sorry, ready? 12 MR. GREEN: What was the last name again? 13 MR. FIELD: Oh, Field. 14 MR. GREEN: Field? Okay. Thank you. Yep, go 15 ahead. 16 MR. FIELD: So my name is Dr. Robert Alexander 17 Field. I've been measuring ambient levels of methane 18 and VOCs since 1989 for the UK government, European 19 Commission, and a variety of U.S. state and federal 20 agencies. 21 MR. GREEN: Could I get you to use the 22microphone, so everyone can hear you. 23 MR. FIELD: Should I start again? Is that 24better? 25 MR. GREEN: No, that's okay.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 251 1 MR. FIELD: Take two. My name is Dr. Robert 2 Alexander Field. I've been measuring ambient levels of 3 methane and VOCs since 1989 for the UK government, 4 European Commission, and a variety of U.S. state and 5 federal agencies. I'm the author of a number of 6 publications, including most recently in the "Journal of 7 Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics." This paper directly 8 relates to oil and gas emissions with wintertime ozone 9 in Wyoming. 10 Since 2011 a combination of facts have led to 11 air quality improvements in the Upper Green River Basin 12 in Wyoming. These factors include application of LDAR 13program by developers, reduced activity, meteorology, 14 and state-driven regulation related to nonattainment 15 designation. Most recently my research is based upon 16 downwind plume quantification of methane and VOC using 17 EPA Method OTM 33A. It is evident that some well pads 18 have higher leakage rates than others. 19 Given my personal experience of breathing VOC 20 levels far above normal ambient concentrations, I 21 strongly support the proposed NSPS rules for methane and 22VOC. This is important for climate change, ground-level 23 ozone, and to human health. When oil and gas operations 24 are efficient, there are clear benefits to everyone; the 25public, industry, and government.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 252 1 Thank you. 2 MR. GREEN: I have one question for you before 3 you leave. You say some oil pads leak more than others. 4 Do you see any way to predict which ones will leak and 5 which ones won't? 6 MR. FIELD: We're still working on that, so I 7 wouldn't -- I would refer you to the academic papers 8 currently in the literature, where in the basins we see 9 leakage rates, in some basins, of 1 percent; in other 10 basins, maybe 6 percent. 11 In terms of the fine detail, that's the 12 research question of the moment: Is it related to 13production in one area at a different time for gas? Is 14 it related to maintenance programs? What are the 15 driving factors of OCS that's ongoing? 16 MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very much. 17 If we can get a copy of your document, that would be 18 helpful. 19 All right. Do we have anybody else that wants 20 to testify? All right. Come on up. 21 Five minutes? All right. 22 Anybody else? Well, we'll take a five-minute 23 break, then. Thanks very much. 24 (Recess taken from 4:17 p.m. to 4:22 p.m.) 25 MR. GREEN: All right. I think we're ready.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 253 1 Come on up. All right. Wherever you're ready. 2 MR. HATFIELD: This is on? 3 MR. GREEN: Yeah, state your name and spell it 4 out for us, please. 5 MR. HATFIELD: Can you hear me now? My name 6 is Scott Hatfield, H-a-t-f-i-e-l-d. 7 MR. GREEN: We're having trouble hearing. 8 MR. HATFIELD: Hi, my name's Scott Hatfield, 9 H-a-t-f-i-e-l-d, from Boulder, Colorado. 10 I think the time to look at methane releases 11 is long overdue. I certainly welcome steps in this 12 direction. The effects on climate, ozone, public 13 health, hazardous releases of carcinogens and VOCs is 14widely known and documented. Low estimates were, 15 23 times more potent a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide; 16 other studies have been coming up at 64 times. It's 17pretty critical. And I hear today 80, but at any rate 18 at least 23 times, 80 times as potent a greenhouse gas. 19 This is going to be a critical step in trying to reach 20 the goals of the Climate Action Plan. 21 Seems, though, that focusing on new sources is 22 just a small step in the right direction, and the time23 table proposed is way too far in the future to be able 24 to have significant impacts on trying to reach the 25 Climate Action Plan goals of limiting global temperature

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 254 1 increases to 1-1/2 to 2 degrees Celsius. Regs need to 2 be developed for all major methane releases. It's good 3 to see landfills addressed. Much can be done in 4 agriculture and concentrated animal feed lot operations, 5 that was done in terms of how cows are fed, to 6 drastically reduce a lot of methane releases in their 7 farts. 8 But what's especially needed is for different 9 to -- or for a possibly different set of regs to oversee 10 existing oil and gas operations, not just ones that are 11 in ozone nonattainment areas. This has a huge climate 12 impact, and it's also a huge public health threat. 13 People are getting sick and dying all over the state 14here and in Pennsylvania and other places where the 15 fracking movement is widespread. 16 Existing oil and gas operations outside of 17 limited nonattainment areas aren't addressed. This is 18 just a drop in the bucket. The fugitive emissions have 19 been vastly underestimated, and they need to adequately 20 represent greenhouse gas -- greenhouse gas contribution, 21beyond just the fuel that's exhausted. 22 It seems like, you know, just limiting these 23methane fugitive release regs to new sources in ten 24years, that are only existing in nonattainment, might be 25 in compliance with the oil and gas industry's climate

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 255 1 action plan of 6 to 8 degrees Celsius average, or more. 2 They don't seem bothered by it. And begs the question 3 if oil and gas influence is in the EPA public health 4 report on fracking water. 5 And here in Denver, much of those in 6 nonattainment comes from Weld County diesel generators, 7 not specifically fugitive methane releases are affecting 8 our ozone nonattainment. So the effects go beyond the 9 immediate area. 10 Also, quickly here, just to talk about these 11 federal regs being based on the Colorado regs. That's 12 not very good. Colorado does have some fugitive methane 13 regs, but they're irrelevant. At the time of the ballot 14 initiative which I worked on, we had 13 oil and gas 15 inspectors statewide. It takes four years for an 16 inspector to actually get to an oil and gas site. 17 We have a campaign called Operator Oversight 18 and it is drastically limited in scope. The regs called 19 into question Operator Oversight here as well as in the 20 EPA report on public health hazards of fracking. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Hatfield. 23 Do we have anyone else? Come on up. 24 MR. ROMERO: Hello. My name is Lewis Romero. 25 Lewis, L-e-w-i-s; Romero, R-o-m-e-r-o. I have testimony

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 256 1 today. I had not even planned on speaking today at all, 2 except I'm very happy that so many people are involved 3 in -- 4 MR. GREEN: Could you use the microphone, 5 please? 6 MR. ROMERO: I'm very glad that so many people 7 are involved in caring for our environment. I came up 8 here, actually, to talk a little bit about my life. 9 When I went to China, I went to Beijing, it was 10 dangerous to walk outside. That's how bad the air was. 11 It's dangerous to drink the water. That's how bad it 12 is. It's dangerous to go swimming. That's how bad it 13 is. It's dangerous to do anything, you know, that's 14 related to open sewage and situations that we would 15 consider, in this country, completely horrid. 16 But at the same time, I also recognize that 17 Colorado's the leading oil and gas producer in the 18 Western states, but it also has to be tempered with the 19 ability for us to control what's going on. I can't 20 imagine what the world -- what this country would look 21 like if we were taking the China model, which is 22 basically, the EPA is whatever you can get away with. 23 It's very disheartening to see great, 24beautiful landscapes being completely trashed by the 25 environment -- or the environment being trashed by

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 257 1 little to no regulations. So I'm really appreciative 2 that we are in a situation in this country where we have 3 a voice, we have the ability, we have the -- we have the 4 department that actually can make a difference. And I'm 5 real appreciative of that. 6 So again, it's very -- I'm honored to be here, 7 because it is such an important endeavor, and I think 8 that we are blazing the trail here in the oil and gas 9 industry for these states in moving forward. 10 The altitude here is a very important decision 11 in, you know, controlling oil and gas emissions, because 12 the altitude here has a tendency to exacerbate the 13problem. CO2; people with asthma, which is a health 14 issue for people in general; and the reduced oxygen 15 certainly doesn't promulgate well with reducing the 16 already thin oxygen that we have by all these other 17pollutants. 18 Things as simple as not allowing gas mopeds in 19 the major cities is a great way to reduce the problems 20 that I see in China or in Monjo or in the -- even in the 21 inner parts of the country in China that are completely 22 trashed because of the lack of regulations. 23 So I'm very happy that this is going on here 24 and in Washington and in Pennsylvania, and I hope that 25 good things come out of this.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 258 1 And thank you very much. 2 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Romero. 3 Do we have anyone else? All right. Well, 4 we're open until 8:00 o'clock, so we'll stand by in case 5 anyone else shows up. 6 (Pause in the proceedings.) 7 MR. GREEN: All right. I think we have 8 another speaker. Come on up. Do we have anyone else? 9 All right. Just a couple ground rules real 10 quickly. When you start your testimony, if you could 11 start out by stating your name and then spelling it out 12 for the court reporter, that would be helpful. 13 And then we limit testimony to five minutes, 14 so we use this timing light here. When a yellow light 15 comes on, that means you have one minute left; when the 16 red light comes on, that means your five minutes are up. 17 So the floor is yours. Thank you. 18 MR. NEUMAN-LEE: Hi. I'm Jeff Neuman-Lee. 19 That is N-e-u-m-a-n, hyphen, L-e-e. Capital L-e-e, 20 sorry. I'm from Denver. And I'm here to testify that 21 the rules should be as stringent as possible; that they 22 don't cover existing well sites is not helpful, however. 23 Going forward, they're nice, but we are way behind. 24 I think you can look at the West Coast; you 25 can look at the fact that we had a wet -- the wettest

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 259 1 May in the 48 states; heavy rain, terrible dryness; and 2 this is from climate change. And it's right here, right 3 now. 4 There's a great little movie about some guy 5 whose house was down the hill. He didn't hear the thing 6 to get heck out of town. So when he finally left town, 7 he was driving through his town on fire. And Governor 8 Brown from California says that's -- that's where we're 9 at now. You know, my kids, they're in their 20s, early 10 30s. Their world is different right now, it's different 11because of climate change. In 30 years it's going to be 12 that much more different. 13 Your problem is that you have to deal with an 14 applicable world. Our politics do not match our climate 15 situation. Our politics is -- is like a straightjacket, 16 and the house is burning down and we can't get out of 17 it. It takes courage to lead, and leadership means you 18 go first. So I hope that you have as stringent rules as 19you possibly can, to hang on to all of the methane that 20you possibly can. 21 Thank you. 22 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, 23 Mr. Neuman-Lee. 24 Do we have anybody else that wants to testify 25 at this time? All right. I think what I'm going to do

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 260 1 is put the hearing in recess for 15 minutes. We'll 2 resume with a new panel at 5:10. Thank you. 3 (Recess taken from 4:52 p.m. to 5:19 p.m.) 4 MR. COZZIE: Good evening. My name is David 5 Cozzie, and I am the chair of this evening's public 6 hearing. Thank you for coming this evening. 7 Joining me on the panel today are Chris 8 Stoneman from the EPA's Office of Air Quality Planning 9 and Standards, Alexis McKittrick from EPA's Office of 10Atmospheric Programs, and Carl Daly from the regional 11 office here in Region 8. 12 We are here today to hear your comments on 13 EPA's proposed rules relating to the oil and natural gas 14 sector. The specific rules are: 15 Oil and Natural Gas Emissions Sector: 16 Emissions Standards for New and Modified Sources; 17 Source Determination for Certain Emission 18 Units in the Oil and Natural Gas Sector; and 19 Review of New Sources and Modifications in 20 Indian Country: Federal Implementation Plan for 21Managing Air Emissions from True Minor Sources Engaged 22 in Oil and Natural Gas Production in Indian Country. 23 EPA's Administrator signed the proposed rules 24 on August 18th, 2015. 25 The proposed New Source Performance Standards

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 261 1 will establish methane and VOC standards for 2 hydraulically fractured wells and require owners and 3 operators to find and repair leaks. The proposed rule 4 also extends emission reduction requirements further 5 downstream, covering equipment in the natural gas 6 transmission and storage segments in the industry that 7 was not regulated in the Agency's 2012 rules. 8 The proposed Source Determination Rule will 9 clarify the EPA's air permitting rules as they apply to 10 the oil and natural gas industry. 11 We are also taking comment on the proposed 12 federal implementation plan to implement the Federal 13 Minor New Source Review Program in Indian Country for 14 oil and natural gas production. That plan, known as the 15 FIP, will be used instead of site-specific minor New 16 Source Review preconstruction permits in Indian Country. 17 It would incorporate emissions limits and other 18 requirements from six EPA emissions standards, including 19 the 2015 proposed updates to the New Performance -- New 20 Source Performance Standards on which we are taking 21 comment today. 22 If you would like more details on the proposed 23 rules, there are fact sheets available at the 24 registration desk. 25 Before we get started, I'd like to go through

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 262 1 a few housekeeping items and ground rules that will help 2make today's hearing run smoothly. 3 First, please be sure you've checked in at the 4 registration desk, even if you are not planning to speak 5 today. And if you've signed up to speak online or by 6 phone but haven't told us you're here, please step out 7 to the registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 8 you've arrived. 9 I will call speakers up in pairs. When your 10 name is called, please come to the speakers' table at 11 the front of the room. 12 When I call on you to speak, please state your 13 name and spell it for the court reporter. Your comments 14will be transcribed and included in the record of 15 comments on the proposed rule. 16 It is important that you tell us which rule or 17 rules you are speaking about. 18 Each speaker will have five minutes to give 19 comments. We have a timer light to help you know how 20much time you have left to speak. 21 When the light turns from green to yellow, 22 that means you have one minute remaining; when it turns 23 red, that's the signal that you're at five minutes and 24your time is up. 25 When you're finished speaking, please remain

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 263 1 at the table till the person next to you has completed 2 his or her testimony. 3 We are here to listen to you today; however, a 4panel member may ask questions to clarify your comments. 5 I will then call the next pair of speakers and 6 so on. 7 If you have brought a written copy of your 8 testimony, please give that to the staff at the 9 registration desk before you leave today. We will put 10 any written comments submitted today in the official 11 docket for the proposed rule. 12 We also have comment cards available at the 13 registration desk, if you would like to submit 14 additional written comments today. 15 If you want to comment in writing later, stop 16 by the materials table near the registration desk and 17pick up a copy of instructions for submitting written 18 comments. Comments must be received by November 17, 19 2015. 20 Let me assure you that the EPA gives just as 21much consideration to comments received in -- we receive 22 in writing as we do to comments we receive at public 23 hearings like this one. 24 So if you have more comments that you 25would like to provide the EPA, please submit them by the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 264 1 comment period deadline. Your comments will be 2 reviewed. 3 If you have any questions during the day, 4please see the staff at the registration desk, and 5 someone will assist you. 6 Thank you again for taking the time to share 7 your thoughts, comments on the EPA's proposal. Let's 8 get started. 9 At this time I'd like to call forward Rosemary 10 Lytle and Elizabeth Hudetz, Hudetz (pronouncing). 11 MS. HUDETZ: Hudetz. 12 MR. COZZIE: If you'd like to start. 13 MS. LYTLE: Yes, good afternoon. I'm Rosemary 14 Lytle. I'm the president of the NAACP Colorado, 15 Montana, Wyoming State Conference. Our state conference 16 speaks for our national organization and its 17 game-changer initiative and helps to coordinate the 18 activities of our 23 chartered units in these three 19 states. I'd like to thank the Environmental Protection 20Agency and the Obama Administration for the opportunity 21 to offer these comments today. 22 Coloradans have had a front-row seat to the 23 devastating impact of methane pollution and its impact 24 on public health in our communities. In over 3 million 25places where we live, 3 million of us live in places

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 265 1 where ozone levels exceed national clean air standards. 2 And the NAACP believes that this is entirely 3 unacceptable. 4 Methane is a highly potent greenhouse gas and 5 is a major contributor to climate change. Nationally 6 the oil and gas industry is the largest industrial 7 source of methane pollution, emitting over 7.3 million 8 metric tons of methane in 2013 alone, equivalent to CO2 9 emissions from over 160 coal-burning power plants. That 10means that not only are methane and other emissions from 11 oil and gas operations polluting our air, they are acute 12 contributors to the costly and harmful climate change 13 we're seeing today. 14 We know that, today in Washington, D.C., Pope 15 Francis talked about climate change and asked us not to 16 leave the duty of dealing with climate change to the 17 next generation. The NAACP asks the same of you. 18 Methane and carbon dioxide, the number-one and 19 the number-two drivers of climate change, are impacting 20 low-income communities of color and other 21 disenfranchised communities that are very often, even 22 right here in Colorado, closest to the industrial 23 sources of air pollution, at a far greater rate than any 24 other communities. 25 Not only this, our communities are hit the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 266 1 hardest by climate change and climate change-caused 2 disasters. We can't continue to afford to rebuild our 3 homes after disasters like fires and floods caused by 4 climate change, or pay for a heat bill spike during a 5 polar vortex. 6 It's not just climate that's being affected, 7 it's our very health and well-being. We know that 8 methane pollution specifically contributes to the 9 formation of smog, which causes asthma attacks, 10 respiratory problems, and permanent lung damage. 11 And we also know that African American 12 children specifically have an 80 percent higher rate of 13 asthma and nearly three times as likely a chance to die 14 from asthma complications as their peers who are white. 15And the NAACP believes that this is a disgrace. 16 These regulations proposed by EPA can only be 17 the beginning of the work that we must do to combat 18 climate change, protect our communities, and safeguard 19 true public health. Colorado has always been a leader 20 in the fight against climate change, and even when 21 industries like the oil and gas industries oppose 22 regulation, we know that we continue because we must. 23 We know that we must continue because of the 24health of our communities, and the NAACP encourages the 25 EPA to finalize strong rules that will be the first step

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 267 1 in fixing our climate and reducing the significant 2 impact of methane and other toxic pollutants on our 3 health. 4 Thank you so much for the chance for the NAACP 5 to offer these comments. 6 MR. COZZIE: Thank you, Rosemary. Any 7 clarification questions from the panel? All right. 8 If you want to go ahead, Ms. Hudetz. 9 MS. HUDETZ: Okay. It's going to take me five 10minutes just to put this thing on. Is that okay? Hi. 11 Can you hear me? 12 MR. COZZIE: Maybe if you could just hold the 13mic so the court reporter can hear. 14 MS. HUDETZ: Hi. I'm Elizabeth Hudetz. I'm a 15volunteer with the group Citizens for a Healthy Fort 16 Collins. And, yes, thank you for taking our comments 17 and listening to what the people living here have to 18 say. 19 Fort Collins was one of the first cities in 20 Colorado to pass a five-year moratorium on fracking, in 21 2013, to study its effects on human health, safety, and 22property values. We did this through the process of 23petition and vote and educated enough of our population 24 to win by a 60-40 margin. Oil and gas sued us. Our own 25 Governor Hickenlooper, a former oil and gas man,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 268 1 threatened to sue the People of Colorado, i.e., the 2 State of Colorado would sue the People of Colorado, to 3 protect the oil and gas industry. 4 I remember the city council meeting when the 5 spokesperson for oil and gas proudly presented a 6 document signed by numerous companies that backed 7 fracking. Our council checked into it and discovered 8 that most of the companies were unaware that that was 9 what they were signing and did not back fracking. 10 Oil and gas talks about the economy and how we 11 need their jobs, but theirs are the most dangerous jobs 12 on the planet. When we switch to a green energy source, 13 which we will have to eventually, there will be jobs, 14 and they won't be the most dangerous jobs on the planet. 15 In the documentary "Merchants of Doubt," Naomi 16 Oreskes, professor of history and science studies at 17 San Diego U, writes that the oil and gas industry used 18 the same ad agency R.J. Reynolds used in the late '80s 19 to cast doubt on the evidence showing that cigarettes 20 caused lung cancer. Apparently doubt is all it takes to 21 undo all the scientific evidence showing otherwise. 22 They don't even have to prove it, just plant that seed 23 of doubt. 24 The doubt created by these agencies has caused 25 us to delay doing anything to curb or halt global

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 269 1 warming, and now global warming is here. The tipping 2 point has occurred. All we can do now is slow it down. 3 Heat, plants dying, fires, torrential downpours causing 4 flooding. The fire season has increased 78 days a year 5 now, over what it was previously; 100-year floods are 6 occurring every year now. 7 Fracking is the most destructive business 8 practice in the world today. Numerous accidents, on the 9 part of oil and gas, from spills into our oceans, on our 10 land, to explosions, killing wildlife, compromises the 11health of every living creature on our plant, leaving 12 earthquakes and flammable water in its wake. Then 13 there's the venting of toxins that are just part of the 14process. And we let them do this. 15 In Greeley on April 16th of this year, a 16 number of fracking tanks exploded, shooting up to 17 90 feet in the air. The industry came and claimed to 18 have it under control. Almost immediately afterwards, 19 another tank of fracking chemicals exploded and blew up 20 into the air, proving their words to be false. And with 21 less than 15 inspectors in 2010, for 43,000-plus wells, 22 it's impossible to see if they are complying. 23 The cycle of drought; fires; torrential 24downpours of rain; hundred-year floods, yes, every year 25 now -- as I speak, in the Pacific Northwest one of the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 270 1 wettest places in our country, is battling an inferno; a 2 hell storm, as it's been called by those that are 3 fighting it. 4 In the Pope's encyclical, he reminds us: Our 5 lives are intimately connected with those of every other 6 species and we cannot live without them. The Earth's 7 wealth of biodiversity delivers priceless ecosystem 8 services. Birds, bees, and even beetles, flies, and 9 ants pollinate our crops. It's up to us and generations 10 to come to stop what is known as the sixth mass 11 extinction, which threatens to eliminate 20 to 12 50 percent of all living species on Earth within this 13 century. 14 The Pope reiterates the broad scientific 15 consensus that human actions are its primary cause. We 16 share this planet, our only home. We are organisms; the 17 Earth, our host. What kind of organism kills its host? 18 Because that's exactly what we are doing. And we seem 19 to shrug it off as just another bothersome irritation. 20 Until it's on our doorstep, it's easy to not take it too 21 seriously. 22 The EPA was created to protect us and the 23 environment from exactly the things oil and gas has done 24 and is doing. We have a right to clean air and water, a 25 safe home. No one should be allowed to come onto our

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 271 1 property and into our homes, denying these rights. Any 2 group of people from another country doing this would be 3 considered terrorists, but oil and gas can do this and 4 sue us if we try to stop them. 5 They say we're taking away their right to make 6 money. But what about our right to health and happiness 7 guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution? They have access 8 to our legal system, most of our large institutions, and 9 our government; rewriting laws, giving themselves a free 10pass on meeting the standards of clean air, clean water, 11 and drinking water. 12 The Halliburton Loophole was inserted inside 13 another bill -- 14 MR. COZZIE: Please wind up. 15 MS. HUDETZ: Okay, I'm almost done. -- to 16 sneak this through our legal system, and gaining any 17 environmental protection, and their practices are the 18most destructive to life on our planet. Oil and gas can 19pretend they're not responsible, but, unlike the 20 industry, the scientific facts don't lie. 21 Until regulatory agencies communicate to 22 industry that the risks don't outweigh the benefits of 23 this technology, alternatives won't be implemented with 24 the sense of urgency needed to effect the changes 25 necessary to drive a new clean air economy.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 272 1 The question now is whether or not we will let 2 a small group of people destroy our planet in the name 3 of monetary profit, their monetary profit at our 4 expense. It's time for the Environmental Protection 5 Agency to stop looking the other way and protect us. 6 Thank you. 7 MR. COZZIE: Thank you very much. Does anyone 8 have any clarifying questions? Thank you very much. 9 I don't have any speakers at the moment. Is 10 there anyone in the audience that would like to speak? 11 All right. I have no more speakers on the 12 list, so I think what I'll do is I'm going to leave the 13 hearing open and we'll adjourn the second hearing until, 14hopefully, the next speaker. 15 (Recess taken from 5:38 p.m. to 5:59 p.m.) 16 MR. COZZIE: Good evening. We're going to 17 reconvene the panel here. We have a speaker. I call 18 forward Chris Applegate. 19 MR. APPLEGATE: Just over here? 20 MR. COZZIE: Right over there. 21 MR. APPLEGATE: All right. 22 MR. COZZIE: You have five minutes on the 23 timer. 24 MR. APPLEGATE: Yes. 25 MR. COZZIE: If you'd just say your name and

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 273 1 spell your name for the court reporter. 2 MR. APPLEGATE: Okay, great. It's Chris 3 Applegate; C-h-r-i-s, A-p-p-l-e-g-a-t-e; Denver, 4 Colorado. 5 MR. COZZIE: Could you use your microphone as 6 well. 7 MR. APPLEGATE: Oh, yeah, I can do that. 8 Better? All right. 9 "Climate change is a problem that can no 10 longer be left to future generations," His Holiness Pope 11 Francis said earlier today at the White House, side by 12 side with President Obama. I stand with Pope Francis 13 today in tackling a problem facing not only the United 14 States but the world. The EPA's commonsense rule to 15 address methane and VOC emissions from new sources is a 16 critical step in combating climate disruption and in 17 reducing the air pollution that harms public health. 18 As an oil and gas employee here in Colorado, 19 the methane emission rules implemented here at the state 20 level was created together with industry, government, 21 and the public to make our communities safer and to 22 reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The industry I work 23 for did not leave the state, drilling has not stalled 24due to the new rules, nor have I been a witness to any 25 complaints from any colleagues I work with. I expect

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 274 1 that this rule, once implemented, will only have one 2 effect, and one effect only, and that is cleaner air for 3 the community in which we operate. 4 Last year when Colorado came out with its own 5 rules, Anadarko, Encana, and Noble Energy all were in 6 favor of the proposed rules. Curtis Reuter of Noble 7 Energy said, "We support the Air Division's proposed 8 rules because it's the right thing to do for the 9 environment, for public health and our company." 10 The new federal EPA methane and VOC emission 11 rules falls in line with our local rules to protect the 12 environment and public health, although it does not take 13 into account previously drilled wells that are leaking 14methane into our communities. The proposed rules should 15 extend to older wells. That may be a deviation away 16 from my colleagues, but I do believe that people I work 17with are genuine in their efforts to make sure where we 18 operate is safe for our workers and the communities we 19 are operating in. Extending the rule to include 20previously drilled wells would help reduce current 21pollution in our oil and gas drilling communities. 22 The industry I work for is not perfect and 23 never will be. That is why a clean energy economy is 24 growing, and fast, so that we can truly embrace energy 25 independence and a green-collar economy.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 275 1 Currently more than 3 million Coloradans live 2 in areas where ozone levels exceed national clean air 3 standards. There is no doubt that additional greenhouse 4 gas emissions from oil and gas operations contribute to 5 this, enormously, with tens of thousands of wells 6 existing. We have to be sure to extend this rule for 7 current active wells. 8 I love getting outdoors, and I visibly see 9 climate disruption right here in my own backyard here in 10 Colorado. I'm excited about the current energy 11 transition, and I look forward to the transition of jobs 12 into the new clean energy sector in the years to come, 13 but at this current time we need to ensure that current 14 energy sources we use are done in the safest way 15possible. 16 I look forward to seeing this rule implemented 17 and, hopefully, strengthened to include wells previously 18 drilled. 19 MR. COZZIE: Thank you. Could you pass your 20 document to the court reporter? 21 MR. APPLEGATE: Oh, yes. 22 MR. COZZIE: Thank you. Does anyone have any 23 questions from the panel? Thank you. 24 I have no more speakers on the list. Would 25 anyone like to speak from the audience? Well, we'll

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 276 1 stay open here for a little while longer, until we get 2 some more speakers. 3 (Pause in the proceedings.) 4 MR. COZZIE: We're going to reconvene the 5 panel at this point. At this time I'll call forward 6 Brendan Blanchard and Sheila Davis. If you'd both just 7 take a seat at the table right over here. 8 As we go through this, we have a timer here, 9 it's five minutes. You have five minutes to speak. 10 When it turns yellow, it means one minute is left; and 11 the red light means that your time is up. 12 When you start your -- if you speak into the 13microphone; if you'd also say your name and spell your 14name for the court reporter. 15 And I guess we'll start with Sheila, will 16 start first. 17 MS. DAVIS: My name is Sheila Davis; 18 S-h-e-i-l-a, D-a-v-i-s. Is this mic picking me up? I 19 don't think so, but -- 20 MR. STONEMAN: You may have to hold it closer 21 to your mouth. 22 MS. McKITTRICK: Some folks have needed to 23 hold it up right there. 24 MS. DAVIS: Okay. All right. Do I need to 25 spell my name again?

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 277 1 MR. COZZIE: No, you're good. 2 (Pause in the proceedings.) 3 MS. DAVIS: Does this work? 4 MR. COZZIE: No. 5 (Pause in the proceedings while EPA staff 6 replaced equipment.) 7 MS. McKITTRICK: Thank you for your patience. 8 MR. STONEMAN: Thanks for your patience. 9 MR. BLANCHARD: No worries. 10 MR. COZZIE: Just go ahead. 11 MS. DAVIS: All right. My name is Sheila 12 Davis. That's S-h-e-i-l-a, D-a-v-i-s. And I'm a 13physician. And I am the acting temporary director of 14 the University of Denver Healthcare Leadership program. 15 And I began my career in health care in -- as 16 a medical student in West Philadelphia, at the 17University of Pennsylvania, and I chose the area of 18pediatrics. And while I was in medical school, I 19 watched children cycle in and out of the ER, emergency 20 room, for asthma, essentially. And not only did they 21 cycle in and out of the emergency room, some of them 22wound up in the intensive care unit. 23 And what you probably know, but I will 24 explain, is that West Philadelphia sits right next to an 25 oil refinery, so the air is filled with pollutants;

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 278 1 among them, methane. And we all know that there are 2 several triggers for asthma, but air pollution is one of 3 them. And meta-analyses reveal the correlation between 4 increased concentration of air pollutants and emergency 5 room visits. And so I urge you to adopt tougher methane 6 pollution standards. 7 And I plan to submit a written comment with 8 data so that -- if you're not convinced of my anecdotal 9 information. But the incidence and prevalence of asthma 10 in communities where there is a lot of air pollution 11 is -- it's off -- off -- you know, I mean, it's -- it's 12 considerably greater than in communities where you don't 13 have these air pollutants. 14 Thank you. 15 MR. COZZIE: Thank you. Any clarifying 16 questions? 17 MR. STONEMAN: We appreciate your patience. 18 MS. DAVIS: Sure. 19 MS. McKITTRICK: Thank you very much. 20 MR. BLANCHARD: All right. Is it working? 21All right. So my name is Brendan Blanchard; 22 B-r-e-n-d-a-n, B-l-a-n-c-h-a-r-d. So I'd like to thank 23you for the opportunity you've given me here to speak 24 and give my opinion before the final decision's made. 25 I am in favor of tighter oil and natural gas

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 279 1 regulations, and my information and concern comes from 2 peer-review research that's been done while working at 3 the University of Colorado. The research from these 4 scientists has demonstrated that in the Denver-Julesburg 5 Basin of Colorado, an area with 25,000 oil and natural 6 gas wells just north of here, emissions of volatile 7 organic compounds from the leakage and venting of oil 8 and natural gas activities totals 8 to 19 times the 9 emissions of all 5 million cars registered in Colorado. 10 That's right, one oil and natural gas basin totals 8 to 11 19 times the total volatile organic emissions of all 12 5 million cars currently registered in Colorado. 13 So I'm a journalism student, and I work at the 14University of Colorado Boulder, at the Institute of 15Arctic and Alpine Research. As a student in Boulder, 16 I'm concerned that the surrounding county is already in 17 excess of the current air quality standards, due to oil 18 and natural gas emissions, and I'd like to see tighter 19 regulations that will help protect air quality and the 20 health of Colorado citizens. 21 In the past several years, scientists from 22multiple institutions, including the University of 23 Colorado and NOAA, have collaborated on half a dozen 24peer reviewed articles detailing the emissions of the 25 oil and natural gas development in Utah and Colorado.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 280 1 Their findings show that a person living in downtown 2 Denver, a city of one million people with industrial 3 production and hundreds of thousands of running cars, 4 will be exposed to less ozone, methane, and known 5 carcinogens such as benzene on a day-to-day basis 6 compared to someone living in rural Weld County, where 7 there is heavy oil and natural gas development. 8 So the largest cause of poor air quality is 9 currently the emission of total volatile organic 10 compounds, which leads to increased ozone production in 11 the atmosphere. Published literature across the United 12 States has also shown that 5 to 6,000 premature deaths 13 are due to elevated ozone levels each year, and upwards 14 of $500 million of crop damage are a result of these 15 elevated ozone levels. Published research has also 16 shown that 65 percent of high ozone days in Boulder are 17 attributed to air transport from the Denver-Julesburg 18 Basin, an area with heavy oil and gas development. 19 That's two-thirds of high ozone days in Boulder are 20 attributed to air transport from the Denver-Julesburg 21 Basin. 22 Similarly, this research has shown that in 23 2013 the Uintah Basin in Utah, which has just a 24population of 30,000 people and is very similar to the 25 Denver-Julesburg Basin of Colorado, has more exceedences

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 281 1 of the EPA current ozone standards than the city of Los 2 Angeles, which has 10 million residents. And Denver3 Julesburg Basin is just like this. 4 Colorado claims to have some of the strictest 5 oil and natural gas regulations in the country, going 6 above and beyond the current standards. But just in 7 Denver-Julesburg Basin, again, oil and natural gas 8 operations are still responsible for 8 to 19 times more 9 than the total emissions of all 5 million registered 10 vehicles in the state of Colorado. 11 So even though these new regulations will have 12 an economic cost, similar costs have already been taken 13 up by the American consumer in previous years. When the 14 Clean Air Act was updated in 1990, the estimated cost 15per car to meet the new regulations was close to a 16 thousand dollars. And American carmakers have been paid 17 since 1990. 18 So each year consumers are spending millions 19 of dollars to maintain these emission standards, which 20 seems rather unfair when the oil and natural gas 21 industry, in just one basin, is producing grossly more 22 emissions, especially from methane and total volatile 23 organic compounds. So these new regulations would force 24 oil and natural gas to play their part in protecting the 25 environment and lowering emissions.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 282 1 The new regulations proposed for eliminating 2methane and total volatile organic compound emissions 3 are crucial towards lowering ozone because they are 4 released in much larger amounts than any compounds that 5 are currently regulated. 6 My hope is that passing the new standards can 7 bring about better air quality across the country. 8 Businesses may not appreciate stricter regulations, but 9 in my opinion, they are necessary to help improve the 10 health and the quality for everyone. 11 Thank you. 12 MR. COZZIE: Thank you, Brendan. Any 13 questions from the panel? Thank you very much. 14 (Recess taken from 6:23 p.m. to 6:53 p.m.) 15 MR. COZZIE: This is David Cozzie. I'm the 16 chair for tonight's hearing on several oil and gas 17proposals. We're going to reconvene, as we have some 18 speakers. 19 Just for the speakers, when I call your name, 20 I'm going to call you up to the table in front. I'd ask 21 that you use the microphone. 22 You'll have five minutes to speak. We have a 23 timer. It'll show you green, you start when it's green. 24When it turns to yellow, you have a minute left; and 25 then red, your time's up.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 283 1 I'm going to call you up in pairs of two. I'd 2 ask that you both stay at the table until both speakers 3 are done. 4 And we're here to listen to you. If we do 5 have any clarification questions from the panel, we'll 6 ask those. 7 At this time, I'll call forward Peter Mueller 8 and Emma Bray. And when you introduce yourself, I'd ask 9 that you say your name and spell it for the court 10 reporter. 11 MS. BRAY: How should I attach this? 12 MR. COZZIE: You can just hold it behind. 13 MS. BRAY: Hi. My name's Emma Bray, and I'm 14 16 years old, and I go to East High School. It's Emma, 15 E-m-m-a; Bray, B-r-a-y. And so I founded the group Kids 16Against Fracking two and a half years ago, after 17witnessing terrible air and water pollution in the place 18where I was born, in Queensland, Australia; also after 19 seeing it increase here in Denver, where I've lived for 20 15 years. 21 I wanted to thank the EPA for coming here 22 today and asking for our feedback on the proposed new 23 federal regulations. I noticed that you are conducting 24hearings in Pennsylvania and in Texas as well. 25 Colorado, Pennsylvania, and Texas, three states that

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 284 1 have been harmed by the oil and gas industry; three 2 states where industry has been permitted to do what they 3 like, virtually with no regulations; three states where 4 the regulatory agencies are also the proponents of gas 5 and oil; three states that couldn't be more different in 6 geography and culture, except for one thing: The 7 presence of large reserves of methane gas and companies 8 who are eager to exploit that geology by digging out and 9 burning fossil fuels for their own profit, even next to 10 schools, hospitals, and homes. 11 Federal governments and even our President 12 sometimes called methane gas clean energy. It is not. 13 I'm sure that you all saw the photo of a little Syrian 14boy lying dead on the edge of the ocean after trying to 15 escape an intolerable situation with his family. 16 Thousands of people are trying to escape a country that 17has been devastated by a civil war. And why did that 18 civil war start? It started after a four-year drought, 19 where the government could not and did not help the 20 citizens. It was a farmers' revolt in a place where 21people are starving. 22 Climate change is contributing to drought, 23 fires, flooding, hurricanes, Arctic ice melting, 24 acidification of the oceans, and other events that cause 25 social and civil unrest. People become refugees when

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 285 1 their very survival is at stake. 2 If the U.S. does not quickly and seriously 3 reduce greenhouse gases, the consequences will be 4 catastrophic for everybody on the planet. We are liable 5 and we could do more, but some are profiting from an 6 industry that is doing terrible damage. Many people and 7 companies are making choices to slow down climate 8 change, and sustainable energy choices must be the place 9 where we go. 10 1. Should all emissions be captured or just 11 the large operations? This is one of those commonsense 12 questions -- requirements that you speak about. All 13 emissions should be captured. If we have the technology 14 to capture emissions, then they should all be captured. 15 I do not think that the EPA's regulations go far enough. 16All emissions should be captured, not just those coming 17 from new installations. 18 Our state came up with a rule, two years ago, 19 that all methane emissions must be captured. Is that 20 happening now? No, it's not. Voluntary reporting and 21voluntary upgrades do not make sense if we're trying to 22meet our commitments to reducing greenhouse gas 23 emissions. 24 How would the E -- how would the EPA or states 25 enforce these rules? Companies who do not comply with

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 286 1 requirements should incur serious fines and penalties. 2 3. Must companies fix leaks? Yes, they 3 should fix leaks. This is common sense. 4 4. Federal laws should be stronger than state 5 laws because states are influenced by too many special 6 interests and don't take everybody's welfare into 7 account. The first law should be, Do no harm. 8 Companies should have to monitor their emissions and 9 should be liable for environmental degradation, just 10 like they've been liable for toxic waste. CEOs who make 11 a hundred million dollars a year should be asked to pay 12 for their carbon and methane emissions. Right now they 13 are polluting without paying for their damage, and the 14most vulnerable are the first to suffer. 15 5. All companies must legally abide by strict 16 regulations, not regulations that don't do nearly 17 enough. In the case of methane gas, which is a huge 18 contributor to greenhouse gas, it must not be vented 19 into the atmosphere. Methane gas should be captured and 20 not fused off. 21 My suggestion is to limit severely or ban 22 fracking before we find ourselves unable to breathe the 23 air or drink the water. It seems unbelievable, but 24unbreathable air is actually occurring in other 25 countries and here as well. The air is compromised in

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 287 1many cities. People can't breathe. People in other 2 countries are banning fracking and coal-fired power 3 plants because they see it as an intolerable risk. For 4 those who flew into Denver, I'm sure you had a view of 5 the brown pollution that covers the northern part of the 6 city. The pollution was not here just a few years ago. 7 We had clean air here for 25 years, mainly because of 8 EPA's air regulations that were instituted in the early 9 1970s and 1980s. 10 Thanks so much for your interest in my 11 comments, and thanks for taking the measures you are 12 taking at this time. If you ask the question, "Is the 13 danger we are in something we can try to prevent?" if 14 the answer is, "Yes," I hope you will make new strong 15 regulations. 16 Thank you. 17 MR. COZZIE: Thank you, Emma. If you wouldn't 18mind handing a copy of your testimony to the court 19 reporter, that would be great. 20 Does the panel have any questions? 21 MR. STONEMAN: No, but thank you for coming 22 out. We really appreciate it. 23 MS. BRAY: Thank you as well. It means a lot. 24 MR. MUELLER: Okay. Thank you very much. 25Well said.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 288 1 Dear Panel: My name is Peter Mueller. I'm 2 the CEO of a small company called EcoVapor Recovery 3 Systems. My remarks tonight pertain around how to 4 further reduce emissions from oil and gas production 5 sites equipped with storage tanks and VOC incinerators. 6 I was a little concerned that you and I may not have 7 exactly the same interests or same goals, but actually 8 we do. It is to capture all the gas. 9 Over ten years ago, the CDPHE put in place 10 regulations to reduce VOC emissions from oil storage 11 tanks, in an effort to reduce the ground-level ozone in 12 Colorado's Front Range. I've been here since '72, and 13 we don't see the purple haze anymore. The CDPHE rules 14 allow producers to either capture or incinerate vapors. 15 However, no viable technologies existed to safely 16 capture the gas at that time, so producers, 17 understandably, chose to incinerate flash gas on-site. 18 Those incinerators, also known as combustors or flares, 19 now dot the landscape all over the Front Range and burn 20 off VOCs with destruction efficiency ratings of 21 95 percent or better. 22 However, it's turned out that the gas flashing 23 from the oil in the oil storage tanks is almost as 24 energy rich as the oil itself, and as much -- and much 25more so than the natural gas that's produced in the

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 289 1 well. For example, the natural gas used to heat this 2 building has about 900 cubic feet -- or, I'm sorry, 3 900 BTU per cubic foot energy content; whereas, the 4 flash gas coming off oil storage tanks has an energy 5 content up to four times higher. We've seen it as high 6 as 3600 BTU gas coming off those tanks. It is rich in 7 natural gas liquids, including propane and natural 8 gasolines. 9 The obstacle to recovering this gas has been 10 that it becomes contaminated with oxygen while it's in 11 the tanks; and the natural gas pipelines, 12 understandably, will not accept such a mixture into 13 their systems, leaving the producer, again, with little 14 choice but to incinerate this very rich and valuable gas 15 stream. 16 To put the situation in perspective, the 17 average home in Colorado uses approximately 9,000 cubic 18 feet of natural gas each year. Each combustor can 19 incinerate up to eight times that amount each day, 20 enough to heat up to 2800 homes. There are hundreds, if 21 not thousands, of combustors in use in Colorado today. 22 I believe this gas, currently considered a waste 23product, has a higher and better purpose. If we recover 24 it and put it to beneficial use, we are both reducing 25waste and emissions.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 290 1 Six years ago EcoVapor began developing 2 technology to capture this gas and remove the oxygen so 3 that it could be sold and used along with conventional 4 natural gas. We have worked with several producers here 5 in the Front Range, both large and small, testing the 6 process before putting it into commercial service five 7 years ago. Since that time, we've recovered enough gas 8 to heat over 100,000 homes while preventing thousands of 9 tons of pollutants from entering our atmosphere. 10 There's a chart attached to the testimony that 11 I handed out. Can you hand out those copies? 12 THE REPORTER: Yes, I will. 13 MR. MUELLER: This slide represents the -- on 14 the left side, the emissions, in tons per year, of a 15 flare -- or two flares, actually, that would be 16 combustion up to 160 MCFs a day of 2800 BTU gas. That's 17 a -- 2800 to 3000 BTU is a normal range. And you can 18 see that 77 tons per year. Using our system, that gets 19 it down to 7.5 tons, over 90 percent reduction. And 20 that -- and those emissions include the engine that 21powers that system. We're also looking at an electric 22model as well. 23 This technology now provides producers with a 24 real choice that didn't exist when these regulations 25were first put in place. To be clear, not every well

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 291 1 site is a candidate for our system, as many wells 2 produce either no oil or too little to make the 3 installation cost effective; nor are they a lifetime fit 4 for any well, as production eventually declines to the 5 point where, again, our systems are not justified. But 6 new and recent sites, which are producing the highest 7 rates of oil, also produce the bulk of the flash gas, 8 and that can be economically captured. 9 Governor Hickenlooper is aware and supportive 10 of our technology, as are officials with the CDPHE, 11 COGCC, and EPA Region 8. We look forward to working 12with more producers, to capture more gas and turn it 13 from waste into valuable products and simultaneously 14 reduce emissions. 15 Thank you. 16 MR. COZZIE: Thank you, Peter. Any questions 17 from the panel? 18 MR. STONEMAN: Thank you very much. 19 MR. COZZIE: Thank you very much. 20 At this time I'd like to call forward Michael 21 Saul. And please use the microphone and introduce 22yourself, spell out your name for the court reporter. 23 MR. SAUL: Good evening. My name is Michael 24 Saul, that's S-a-u-l, and I am an attorney here on 25behalf of the Center for Biological Diversity. Thank

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 292 1 you for the opportunity to comment on the proposed 2methane New Source Performance Standards. 3 As you know, methane is both an ozone 4precursor with serious public health implications and a 5 very potent greenhouse gas, with approximately 87 times 6 more warming potential than carbon dioxide over a 20- 7 year span. Methane, obviously, also has a much shorter 8 lifetime in the atmosphere, making short-term methane 9 mitigation a crucial step toward any progress on climate 10 stabilization. 11 The Administration has made clear it's aware 12 of the importance of limiting methane emissions, both in 13 international obligations and to mitigate catastrophic 14warming, as has been noted in the President's methane 15 strategy. 16 The oil and gas sector is the largest single 17 sector contributing to methane emissions. At 2013 the 18most recently available data show approximately 19 183 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent 20 versus approximately 165 million methane tons for 21 enteric fermentation from agriculture or from livestock. 22 It's -- it's our position that methane leakage 23 and venting from the sector is actually likely much 24higher than reported in EPA's inventory. Peer-reviewed 25 scientific literature suggests that methane emissions

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 293 1 leaking from various stages of oil and gas operations 2 are at least double the estimates in EPA's emission 3 factors. 4 Consequently, it is absolutely essential that 5methane from this sector be controlled, and be 6 controlled quickly, through strong standards for both 7 new and modified sources. 8 We know that multiple mitigation options exist 9 for methane emissions from the oil and gas industry and 10 that, in fact, most of them are very cost effective and 11 involve proven technologies and practices. 12 Therefore the Center strongly supports efforts 13 to directly limit methane emissions from new oil and gas 14 sources under Section 111(b) of the Clean Air Act. We 15 also support the most rapid possible implementation 16 schedule for such standards: 17 The proposed amendments to New Source 18 Performance Standards for oil and gas generally limit 19methane emissions from important sources, with the 20 significant exception of liquids unloading; 21 And we note that the proposed standard would 22 include, for the first time, green completions for 23 hydraulically fractured wells; pneumatic pumps, 24 compressor stations, and well sites; and requirements 25 extended to all pneumatic controllers, centrifugal

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 294 1 compressors, and reciprocating compressors. 2 We would request that the EPA act more 3 decisively and strengthen rules that control leaks from 4 this significant pollution -- pollutant from the oil and 5 gas industry, specifically: 6 Stronger methane reductions can be achieved 7 with proven technology; 8 We think the rule's proposed leakage of up to 9 5 percent from some units is greatly excessive, and a 10methane leakage rate of anything greater than 11 2.8 percent would make the life cycle burning of natural 12 gas in power plants more harmful, from a warming 13perspective, than coal; 14 Liquids unloading is also a significant source 15 of leaks and should be a source component under the 16 rule; 17 We believe that the proposed leak detection 18 and repair schedule is not sufficiently frequent. The 19proposed rule would allow decreased monitoring based on 20 a leakage rate of less than 1 percent. We are strongly 21 concerned that this creates a disincentive on industry 22 to monitor for and repair leaks. And -- and therefore a 23 fixed quarterly monitoring schedule is more appropriate, 24particularly given that the literature indicates that 25 the occurrence of leaks is neither systematic nor

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 295 1 necessarily predictable. 2 At the same time, we -- we recommend that EPA 3 should also take rapid steps to promulgate emission 4 guidelines under Section 111(d) of the Act to address 5 existing sources, which constitute nearly 90 percent of 6 all methane emissions from this sector out of expected 7 in 2018. Thus the vast majority of current emissions 8 will continue unabated until existing sources are 9 addressed under 111(d). 10 Thank you. 11 MR. COZZIE: Thank you, Michael. Any 12 clarifying questions from the panel? 13 And I think, if you have a copy of the 14document you can leave with the court reporter, that 15would be helpful. 16 MR. SAUL: Okay. 17 MR. STONEMAN: Thank you very much for coming 18 down. 19 MR. SAUL: Thank you. 20 MR. COZZIE: Especially this late. 21 At this time I have no more speakers. We will 22 take a short recess here. 23 (Recess taken from 7:11 p.m. to 7:47 p.m.) 24 MR. COZZIE: Since we have a speaker now, we 25 can reconvene the panel.

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 296 1 If you would spell your name for our court 2 reporter, that'd be great. You've heard about the 3 clock. 4 MR. HARDWICK: And I'm the last one here. 5 MR. COZZIE: All right. Okay, go ahead. 6 MR. HARDWICK: All right. My name's Matt 7 Hardwick. I currently speak for myself. I found out 8 about this hearing through the -- oh, sorry. So I found 9 out about this hearing through the Sierra Club. I was a 10 legislative volunteer for Colorado's House Majority 11 Office and worked on a research project on methane 12 emissions and the current state of the methane emission 13 detectors, such as they are. 14 I was also an intern for a state rep, 15 Representative Joann Ginal from Fort Collins. She 16 doesn't -- she currently isn't on any energy-related 17 committees for the general assembly, but she does have a 18 interest in health issues, which made me -- and to have 19me work on the recent oil and gas task force here in 20 Colorado, governor's task force, that listen to -- 21 listen to hearings regarding health issues. In any 22 case, it made the repeated mentions of asthma that I've 23 heard about throughout today very interesting. 24 I'd like to talk a little bit about what I see 25 is one of the larger issues here, which is that while

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 297 1 the amount of methane seems inexhaustible and the oil 2 and gas industry seems to treat it as inexhaustible, it 3 isn't. It will run out. It may run out in a hundred 4years, as the industry claims. It may run out in ten or 5 so years, which seems likely, given the energy demands 6 of this country, never mind India, China, and the rest 7 of the world. But it will run out. 8 In fact, but for George Mitchell's innovations 9 in fracking, which, you've probably heard, that's been 10 around since the late '40s, George Mitchell's energy 11 innovations back in the late '90s, we wouldn't have this 12 bonanza to deal with. We'd have a rude awakening, to 13 say the least. Who knows how long it'll last. So we 14have to act responsible from this gift given to us. 15 I don't have any real recommendations. I'm 16 still learning about the issue myself, and today has 17 been fairly informative. It sounds like what the EPA's 18 doing is a good job and, like many here, I encourage you 19 all to keep it up and to keep in mind the larger reasons 20 for developing your all's policies on methane and 21 other -- as well as other current fossil fuels. 22 And the only thing I would add is it seems 23 like -- it seems like a good transition fuel, although 24 if you -- and as long as the obvious challenges, like 25 from the VOCs and to this thing called, I want to say,

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 298 1 BTEX are kept in mind, and, I mean, then the transition 2 to cleaner fuels -- air, hydropower, and solar -- will 3 be that much easier. 4 And that's all I have to say, and I -- my 5 nerves are starting to give out a little. Thank you for 6 all you do, and I hope you have a good day. 7 Thank you. 8 MR. STONEMAN: Thank you very much. I 9 appreciate it, and for staying all day and listening. 10 MR. HARDWICK: Not a problem. 11 MR. STONEMAN: Thank you. 12 MR. STONEMAN: Not a problem. 13 (Pause in the proceedings.) 14 MR. COZZIE: At this time we are with no 15 additional speakers. It is 7:55. We're going to 16 adjourn the -- close the hearing for the day. I thank 17 all those that have participated. 18 (The hearing was adjourned at 7:56 p.m.) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

### www.depo.com Atkinson-Baker Court Reporters 299 1 REPORTER’S CERTIFICATE 2 I, CARLA D. CAPRITTA, Registered Professional 3 Reporter, certify; 4 That the foregoing proceedings were taken 5 before me at the time and place therein set forth. 6 That all foregoing proceedings were recorded 7 stenographically by me and were thereafter transcribed; 8 That the foregoing is a true and correct 9 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken; 10 I further certify that I am not a relative or 11 employee of any of the parties, nor financially 12 interested in the action; 13 I declare, under penalty of perjury under the 14 laws of Colorado, that the foregoing is true and 15 correct. 16 Dated this 28th day of October, 2015. 17 18 19

__________________________ Carla D. Capritta, RPR 20 21 22 23 24 25