# Date: April 29, 2015

**Case:** Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. Phone: 202-347-3700 Fax: 202-737-3638 Email: info@acefederal.com Internet: www.acefederal.comCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PUBLIC MEETING COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PUMPS STANDARDS MEETING

U.S. Department of Energy Forrestal Building, Room 6E-066 1000 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20585

2:24 p.m. Wednesday, April 29, 2015Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Appearances for Department of Energy Meeting 2 3 

## Doug Brookman, Chair 4 

## John Cymbalsky, DOE 5 

## Ashley Armstrong, DOE 6 

## Sarah Widder, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory 7 

## Albert F. Huber, Patterson Pumps 8 

## Jiangang Hu, Rockwell Automation 9 

## Joanna Mauer, Appliance Standards Awareness Project 10 

## Mark Menzer, Danfoss 11 

## Brent Ross, Armstrong Fluid Technology 12 

## Aniruddh Roy, Goodman Manufacturing Company, L.P. 13 

## Paul Ruzicka, Xylem 14 

## Mark W. Handzel, Xylem 15 

## Meg Waltner, NRDC 16 

## Prem Vuppuluri, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory 17 

## Mary Anderson, Pacific Gas and Electric Company 18 

## Robert R. Barbour, TACO, INC. 19 

## Mark J. Chaffee, TACO, INC. 20 

## Alex Boesenberg, NEMA 21 

## Rob Boteler, Nidec Motor Corporation 22 

## Daniel E. Delaney, Regal Beloit America, Inc.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic Institute 2 

## Daniel Weintraub, Navigant 3 

## Jason Lai, Navigant 4 

## Chris Lau, Navigant 5 

## Alison Williams, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory 6 

## Gary Fernstrom, CA IOU's 7 

## Glenn Harrison, USDOJ - ATR 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## P R O C E E D I N G S 2 

## (2:24 p.m.) 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So apologies for the 4 

## delay. We're about to resume, and you can tell your 5 

## -- anybody that's joining us, that you have contact 6 

## with via the web. They should be able to sign back 7 

## on to the new web address and access the slide. It's 8 

## up here no the screen now, and they should be able to 9 

## join the conversation. So we're going to start. 10 

## We're going to commence. Ready? Lets do this. 11 

## Good afternoon everyone. Good to see you 12 

## still here. This is the Notice of Proposed 13 

## Rulemakings for Pumps, the energy conservative 14 

## standards portion of this meeting. We had the test 15 

## procedures portion of the NOPR this morning. Glad to 16 

## see so many of you still here. We're going to launch 17 

## right straight into this content, since virtually all 18 

## of the individuals that were here this morning. Do 19 

## you want to do introductions? 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: We have a new transcript. 21 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: A different transcript. 22 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Different transcript.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: This is a different 2 

## transcript. Yes, thank you for clarifying that. 3 

## This will be a different transcript and different 4 

## entire record of this meeting commencing now, and one 5 

## or two individuals did not get a chance to introduce 6 

## themselves this morning. Louis and 7 

## Tom Eckman. You want to say hello? 8 

## MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr with 9 

## Northwest Energy Efficiency Alliance. 10 

## MR. ECKMAN: Tom Eckman, Northwest Power 11 

## and Conservation Council. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Chris, I don't think you 13 

## were here this morning, were you? 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That's Chris Lau from 15 

## Navigant. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So thanks all of 17 

## you for hanging in here. Apologies again for the 18 

## delay caused by our -- 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm going to actually ask 20 

## everyone, because he's going to create a whole new 21 

## record, and so he doesn't have to pull. We do need 22 

## it for --Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Let's do this. 2 

## Let's do introductions as we did first thing this 3 

## morning. Name and organization affiliation 4 

## immediately to my left. 5 

## MR. DELANEY: Okay. Dan Delaney from 6 

## Regal Beloit, also MG-1 section chair. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 8 

## MR. FERSTROM: Gary Ferstrom, representing 9 

## the California Investor-Owned Utilities, PG&E, 10 

## Southern California Edison, San Diego Gas and 11 

## Electric and the Southern California Gas Company. 12 

## MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler, Nidec Motor 13 

## Company and chairman of the NEMA Energy Committee. 14 

## MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour representing 15 

## TACO. Actually, from TACO representing HI. 16 

## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem, 17 

## representing HI as well. 18 

## MR. HUBER: Al Huber from Patterson Pump, 19 

## representing HI. 20 

## MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka from Xylem, 21 

## representing HI. 22 

## MR. GAYDON: Peter Gaydon, HydraulicCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## Institute. 2 

## MR. ROSS: Brent Ross, Armstrong Fluid 3 

## Technology. 4 

## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer, Appliances 5 

## Standards Awareness Project. 6 

## MS. WALTNER: Meg Waltner, Natural 7 

## Resources Defense Council. 8 

## MS. KOHL: Betsy Kohl, DOE General 9 

## Counsel's Office. 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Ashley Armstrong, DOE. 11 

## MR. CYMBALSKY: John Cymbalsky, DOE. 12 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Alison Williams, Lawrence 13 

## Berkeley National Labs. 14 

## MR. WEINTRAUB: Daniel Weintraub, 15 

## Navigant. 16 

## MR. LAI: Jason Lai, Navigant. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: Sarah Widder, Pacific 18 

## Northwest National Laboratory. 19 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Just as a matter of 20 

## courtesy as -- 21 

## (Off mic comments.) 22 

## MR. BOESENBERG: Alex Boesenberg, NEMA.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. CHAFFEE: Mark Chaffee, TACO. 2 

## (Off mic introductions.) 3 

## MR. HARRISON: Ron Harrison, DOJ. 4 

## MS. ANDERSON: Mary Anderson, PG&E. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Great. Thanks to all of 6 

## you. We're going to pick up where we left off, and I 7 

## believe that was Slide No. 95. You can see the 8 

## agenda for the rest of the afternoon. 9 

## We'll do a few overview slides, and then 10 

## moving from there, Market Technology, Screening, 11 

## Engineering, Markets Analysis and Energy Use, and 12 

## then following on, Life Cycle Cost and Payback Period 13 

## Analysis, Shipments, Historical Analysis, 14 

## Manufacturer Impact Analysis, NOPR Analyses, plural 15 

## and closing remarks, closing out with a description 16 

## of the proposed status certification, and an 17 

## additional opportunity for anybody that wishes too to 18 

## make a closing statement, closing remarks, as we move 19 

## toward the end of the day today. 20 

## It's now about 2:30. We'll probably take 21 

## a break around about 3:30-3:45, or as needed when we 22 

## get there. So we're going turn it back to AshleyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Armstrong. 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So hi everyone. Good 3 

## afternoon. I'm going to go through some of the 4 

## slides pretty quickly here, to talk about reference 5 

## to the working group, which we discussed this 6 

## morning. 7 

## One of the things that's not in this 8 

## afternoon's presentation, for those of you that are 9 

## just joining us, either via the web are in person, 10 

## are the definitions, and how those definitions 11 

## establish both scope of coverage, as well as the 12 

## applicability of the test procedures and the 13 

## standards. 14 

## Since we're not re-reviewing those this 15 

## afternoon, we got a lot of great feedback and some 16 

## clarifications that were requested from this morning, 17 

## I encourage anyone who's just joining us to go back 18 

## and look at that section from this morning's 19 

## presentation, if they are interested, as well as the 20 

## NOPR on that. 21 

## Those definitions and that discussion is 22 

## what's also impacting and reflected here, as part ofCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## the actual applicability of the standards discussion. 2 

## So just to go through the overview of how we got 3 

## here, as we discussed this morning, a working group 4 

## was commenced and they did a lot of the heavy lifting 5 

## and hard work to come up with some negotiated levels, 6 

## that were then passed on to the ASRAC Committee and 7 

## voted out favorably and sent to the Department for 8 

## consideration and ultimately inclusion in this NOPR. 9 

## DOE believes that the standards that you 10 

## see in the proposed rule reflect wholeheartedly 11 

## those levels that were negotiated by the working 12 

## group, and then we conducted the analysis there. 13 

## We're going to give you a high level overview of that 14 

## analysis that reflected those levels and ultimately 15 

## what you saw in the energy conservation standards 16 

## proposal. 17 

## So this is just an overview of our 18 

## statutory requirements. These are the seven factors 19 

## that DOE is required to consider when promulgating 20 

## and considering rules, and on the right is the 21 

## corresponding DOE analysis that we conduct, in order 22 

## to assess those seven criteria. I'm not going to goCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## into detail, but throughout the presentation today, 2 

## we are going to highlight each one. 3 

## So next we're going to talk about the 4 

## detailed analysis, and first we're going to talk 5 

## about a minimally compliant pump. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Daniel Weintraub. 7 

## MR. WEINTRAUB: So Daniel Weintraub with 8 

## Navigant. Thank you Ashley for getting us set up 9 

## here. So the first slide we have here is just a 10 

## reminder of what we're looking at here with the 11 

## standards. So we've gone through this in detail. 12 

## PEI is the metric. PEI is made up of PER and PER 13 

## standard, and a compliant pump is less than or equal 14 

## to one. 15 

## What we have down here with the equations, 16 

## they're highlighting the fact that when it all comes 17 

## down to it, it's the C value that you vary to see -- 18 

## to change the level of efficiency that we were 19 

## looking at in this analysis, which is consistent with 20 

## what we went through with the working group. 21 

## So now I'm going to take you through the 22 

## Market and Tech and Screening Analysis. So again, asCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Ashley mentioned, we're going to keep this very high 2 

## level, because everything here reflects what was 3 

## discussed in detail with the working group. So we'll 4 

## go through the methods and then briefly through 5 

## results and move forward. 6 

## So the purpose here for the market and 7 

## tech was to develop scope of coverage for the 8 

## rulemaking. Ashley discussed the scope and the 9 

## definitions identical to what was discussed this 10 

## morning. Beyond that, we define equipment classes. 11 

## I'll go through those in detail in the next slide. 12 

## We have a table to show them. 13 

## We characterize the manufacturing 14 

## industry. So that means identifying manufacturers 15 

## and industry groups and associations. That's all 16 

## presented in the TSD. We got our historical 17 

## shipments and other relevant market data. We 18 

## discussed that at the working group, and that's also 19 

## in the TSD. We characterize efficiency distributions 20 

## of the current market. We also went through that. 21 

## We identify existing regulatory and 22 

## voluntary efficiency programs. So obviously the keyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## one here was what was done in the European Union, and 2 

## there's a lot of parallels there between this 3 

## regulation and that one. We've discussed that also. 4 

## Finally, we identify technology options for improving 5 

## efficiency. So we'll move on and go through some of 6 

## these. 7 

## So first up here, these were the final 8 

## equipment classes that DOE is proposing. So it comes 9 

## out to 20 of them, and as kind of discussed earlier 10 

## in the definition stage, we broke it up. You first 11 

## look at -- what we have up here is category on the 12 

## left, the type of pumps. So whether it be end 13 

## suction close couple, end suction frame-mounted, 14 

## inline, RSV or VTS. Then the sale-configured. Oh 15 

## sorry. 16 

## MR. GAYDON: Peter Gaydon with the 17 

## Hydraulic Institute. On the last slide, you 18 

## mentioned the technical support document? 19 

## MR. WEINTRAUB: Yes. 20 

## MR. GAYDON: Is that different than the 21 

## preamble and where is it and how is it available to 22 

## us?Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. WEINTRAUB: You want to take this? 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Sure. It is different. 3 

## The preamble is just the writing in the beginning of 4 

## the notice. What we call Reg Text is the bottom of 5 

## the notice that implements the regulations in the 6 

## Code of Federal Regulations in our CFR. The TSD is a 7 

## separate stand-alone document. It's about 1,000 8 

## pages or so, and it has all the analytical data and 9 

## analysis, assumptions, results. 10 

## It's also in the docket and on our web 11 

## page, and I can send you a link directly, if you just 12 

## tell me your email address offline. 13 

## MR. GAYDON: Okay. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yep. 15 

## MR. WEINTRAUB: Thank you, Ashley. All 16 

## right. So we'll go forward. So again, we're talking 17 

## about equipment classes. So you're broken out by 18 

## what we have up there as category, and then your sale 19 

## configuration is an excess. Whether it's bare pump 20 

## or pump with motor without controls, or a pump with 21 

## motor and with controls. So that creates whether 22 

## you're going to be a constant load pump or a variableCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## load pump, and then we had design speed, which we've 2 

## discussed, 1,800 or 3,600. 3 

## That brings you over to the right side, 4 

## which ends up being the designation, the final 5 

## designation for all 20, and you see three terms. 6 

## You're going to have that category, you're going to 7 

## have the speed and you're going to have whether 8 

## you're constant load or variable load. 9 

## So the next topic to discuss would be the 10 

## technology assessment. So here DOE identified 11 

## technology options for improved energy efficiency 12 

## from publicly available literature, comments, input 13 

## from stakeholders and manufacturer interviews. So 14 

## here we've listed out what was originally identified. 15 

## So this is -- this started back with the 16 

## framework. We worked through all of these within the 17 

## working group meetings. So what we presented at the 18 

## working groups, to the working group and within the 19 

## TSD and the NOPR were improved -- improved 20 

## components, reduced running clearances, reduced 21 

## mechanical friction, reduction of other volumetric 22 

## losses, improved hydraulic design, addition ofCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## variable speed drive, improvement of VSD efficiency 2 

## and reduced VSD standby power. 3 

## So again, these were just explored before. 4 

## The next step is the screening analysis. So these 5 

## were the initial exploration, and the TSD goes 6 

## through all this in detail. We quantify that the 7 

## gains that we found or the lack of gains that we 8 

## found. 9 

## So that brings us on to the screening 10 

## analysis. So here, as it kind of sounds, the purpose 11 

## here to screen out technologies that do not save 12 

## energy, or do not meet all of the following four 13 

## criteria which we have listed there: technological 14 

## feasibility, practicability to manufacture, impacts 15 

## on product utility or availability to customers or 16 

## impacts on health and safety. 17 

## So TSD goes through the detailed reasons 18 

## why each one was screened out, and that mirrors what 19 

## was discussed at the working group. We worked 20 

## through all of these, and you'll see up there that 21 

## after the screening analysis, the only technology 22 

## option that was passed on to the next phase, which isCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## the engineering analysis, was hydraulic redesign. 2 

## So there are some caveats that are out 3 

## there in the TSD, but overall, the only design that 4 

## was considered in the engineering was hydraulic 5 

## redesign. 6 

## So that takes us to engineering. So the 7 

## purpose of the engineering analysis to establish 8 

## efficiency levels and determine the incremental 9 

## changes in manufacturer selling prices, which we term 10 

## -- we use MSP commonly, at each efficiency level 11 

## which is analyzed. 12 

## So to do this, a brief overview of the 13 

## methods. The efficiency levels were established 14 

## using a market distribution approach. So this means 15 

## that the levels were based on current market 16 

## available ranges of efficiency. So the baseline 17 

## represents the bottom of the market, max type 18 

## represented the top of the market, and our efficiency 19 

## levels were scattered in between, based on input from 20 

## the working group. We established all those levels 21 

## based on what the working group was interested in 22 

## analyzing.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## So base case and incremental MSPs were 2 

## determined using confidential market-wide revenues, 3 

## shipments, markup data as well as manufacturer input, 4 

## again all -- we go through it all in detail in the 5 

## TSD, Chapter 5 for this section. 6 

## So here, here we have our final efficiency 7 

## levels and corresponding C values. As we discussed, 8 

## the C values determine or define the efficiency 9 

## level. We have from Efficiency Level 0, which is 10 

## baseline up to Efficiency Level 5, which is max tech, 11 

## and Efficiency Level 2 was the 25th efficiency 12 

## percentile, commonly known as PR-25 to the working 13 

## group, and that represents the 25th -- the lower 25th 14 

## percentile of efficiency. 15 

## So next we have the base case MSP 16 

## efficiency relationship. So this kind of represents 17 

## today's market, so price versus efficiency 18 

## relationship in today's market is what I call it. 19 

## It's a bit complex, but there are four steps to get 20 

## to this relationship. We went through all this again 21 

## in detail with the working group, but at a high 22 

## level. DOE found a relationship between manufacturerCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## markup and efficiency. 2 

## DOE also determined that improved 3 

## efficiency does not increase manufacturer production 4 

## costs. DOE modeled the average manufacturer 5 

## production cost for pumps within the scope. So it is 6 

## basically cost versus pump size. 7 

## We established a model for costs all 8 

## across, from the lowest horsepower to the highest 9 

## horsepower, and then to get to this final 10 

## relationship, the base case MSP for a pump of a given 11 

## size and efficiency, it's found using the average MPC 12 

## models, and we have a graphic of that on the left, 13 

## and the markup versus efficiency model on the right. 14 

## You can work those two together for any given pump 15 

## and you can find out what any given pump's MSP was, 16 

## given its size and its efficiency. 17 

## So next we're going to briefly talk about 18 

## conversion costs. So typically conversion costs are 19 

## covered in detail in the manufacturer impact 20 

## analysis. But here, we've moved them up in the 21 

## analysis for a few specific reasons. Namely that 22 

## hydraulic redesigns are known to result inCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## significant conversion costs, and it's possible that 2 

## those conversion costs can lead to increased markups 3 

## to recover those conversion costs. So manufacturers 4 

## may increase the markups to try and get back some of 5 

## those investments. 6 

## Those markups affect pricing. So that's 7 

## why we're looking at them up front. We want to make 8 

## sure we have an accurate understanding of pricing. 9 

## So to find the conversion costs, we determine 10 

## basically a very high level three-step approach. We 11 

## went through this with the working group also. 12 

## We determined the industry average cost 13 

## per model to redesign a pump of varying sizes, to 14 

## meet each of the proposed efficiency levels. This 15 

## data was in part based on what HI provided in their 16 

## redesign survey, as well as confidential interviews. 17 

## We then modeled the distribution of unique 18 

## pumps that would require a redesign at each 19 

## efficiency level, and then for each efficiency level 20 

## you multiply the number of unique failing models by 21 

## the associated cost to redesign each of those pumps, 22 

## and you come out with a total conversion cost for theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## industry at each one of your levels. 2 

## Down here we have the results presented 3 

## for the groupings that we looked at. You can see we 4 

## combined end suction close couple and frame-mounted, 5 

## and we looked at inline and VTS and we've summed up 6 

## the industry down there. These are the same numbers 7 

## that were presented to the working group. 8 

## All right. Finally, we have the standards 9 

## case MSP efficiency relationship. So we've already 10 

## shown the base case, which was kind of business as 11 

## usual, and now this is -- this is what we're looking 12 

## at to evaluate the standards case, if we were to 13 

## implement the standard. 14 

## So here DOE evaluated two standards case 15 

## MSP efficiency scenarios, and this is to represent 16 

## the uncertainty of -- the uncertainty of the 17 

## potential impact of standards on pricing in the 18 

## market. So we looked into the first one is flat 19 

## pricing. The pricing structure here would not be 20 

## modified to recover conversion costs. 21 

## So basically this is the same markup 22 

## structure as in the base case, same as today'sCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## industry. This scenario is considered the lower 2 

## bound for revenues, no new additional markups. The 3 

## second is cost recovery pricing. So this pricing 4 

## structure is modified to recover the conversion cost 5 

## over the analysis period. 6 

## So that means markups are increased, even 7 

## if the MPC, the manufacturer's cost to produce the 8 

## product stays the same. They're going to charge a 9 

## higher markup to try and make back some of their 10 

## investments on their conversion costs. So this 11 

## scenario is considered an upper bound for revenues. 12 

## This scenario provided the highest cost to the 13 

## consumer, so it was used in the LCC analysis as a -- 14 

## for conservative, to be conservative. 15 

## The results of these pricing scenarios are 16 

## incorporated into the LCC and MIA analysis, and is 17 

## all documented in the TSD. So with that, I'll move 18 

## on. 19 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. You guys have never 20 

## been so silent before. It's weird. 21 

## (Off mic comment.) 22 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Okay, I'm ready. So I'mCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## going to go through the markups and energy use. As 2 

## with Dan, this is high level, so stop me if you have 3 

## any questions. This is basically the same as what 4 

## was presented during the working group, with a few 5 

## minor changes that I'll point out. 6 

## So the markups is basically to 7 

## characterize the pump distribution channels and 8 

## determine how those affect the consumer prices, based 9 

## on the markups in each section of those channels. So 10 

## we analyzed company direct cost, expenses and 11 

## profits, and the sources for those are listed here. 12 

## It's basically some Census Bureau data, some 13 

## information from RS Means, and we also include sales 14 

## taxes from the Sales Tax Clearinghouse. 15 

## So we calculate both baseline and 16 

## incremental markups. The baseline markups are 17 

## applied to the manufacturer's selling price in the 18 

## base case, and the incremental markups apply just to 19 

## the incremental difference in MSP between the base 20 

## case and the standards case, and that's just covering 21 

## the expenses that vary with MSP. 22 

## So this is the summary. Across the top,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## those are the five different distribution channels we 2 

## used along with other category and their market 3 

## shares, and then the baseline and incremental markups 4 

## for each of those entities in the channel and the 5 

## overall markups. These are applied to the MSPs that 6 

## Dan just talked about. 7 

## Okay. So for energy use analysis, 8 

## basically what we're doing is trying to determine the 9 

## unit energy consumption of pumps at each of the 10 

## considered efficiency levels, to put into the life 11 

## cycle cost analysis. This is the general equation 12 

## for this. It's power times operating hours, and here 13 

## we're characterizing the power as the hydraulic 14 

## output power divided by the pump and motor 15 

## efficiencies. This is a variable load profile that 16 

## I'll talk about in a moment. 17 

## So these are the main inputs to the energy 18 

## use analysis. The duty points -- for this, as we've 19 

## discussed in the working group, there's not a lot of 20 

## data out there for duty points. So we relied 21 

## primarily on the shipments data that we collected. 22 

## This just notes that we binned those data, and soCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## we're analyzing some representative units in these 2 

## nine power bins, nine by nine power and flow bins. 3 

## So then in order to account for the 4 

## difference between, you know, the BEP of a pump 5 

## that's actually shipped and what is used in the 6 

## field, we use this BEP offset to account for pump 7 

## sizing, which basically assumes that people are 8 

## generally choosing a pump between --for a duty point 9 

## between 75 percent and 110 percent of BEP flow. 10 

## We discussed the annual hours of operation 11 

## in the working group, those distributions based on 12 

## application that we went through, and we're using 13 

## four generalized load profiles that represent a 14 

## variety of conditions, like a flat load that's mostly 15 

## at BEP, an oversize load and some variable over- and 16 

## under-sized loads. So those are distributed 17 

## according to the percentages here. 18 

## So in addition to those, which basically 19 

## determines how much power the pump is actually 20 

## producing, we need to calculate its input power. So 21 

## we need pump losses, which we get using the 22 

## efficiency curves for the representative units, whichCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## were basically determined from the data we received 2 

## from all the manufacturers. The motor losses, 3 

## basically in this analysis we assume that all pumps 4 

## are bare pumps to some extent, and we're just 5 

## assigning motor losses based on the default values in 6 

## the test procedures. 7 

## So though it's not taking into account 8 

## anything to do with motors. And in this analysis, we 9 

## did not account for control losses. We basically 10 

## assumed that everyone was throttling their pump, and 11 

## then we did a separate LCC subgroup analysis for VFD 12 

## users, because it's -- although not intuitive, but 13 

## because they use less energy to start with, they 14 

## actually save less with the standard. So they, to 15 

## some extent, could be disproportionately impacted. 16 

## So we looked at them there. 17 

## Okay. So those all go into the life cycle 18 

## cost analysis, just basically looking at the 19 

## economics from the consumer's perspective. Life 20 

## cycle cost is just summing the consumer cost over the 21 

## life of the equipment, whereas payback period is how 22 

## long it takes to recover the increased purchase priceCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of the more energy efficient equipment. 2 

## So for each pump equipment cost, we do 3 

## 10,000 pump installations, which is basically the 4 

## combination of a pump user and a pump, and then 5 

## there's many variables associated with the user and 6 

## the pump, and a lot of these are characterized by 7 

## distributions, so that we can evaluate the full 8 

## extent of the population. So that things like 9 

## discount rate, operating hours, lifetime, load 10 

## profiles is all distributions. 11 

## The user characteristics are the same for 12 

## all efficiency levels, and then what happens as we go 13 

## up in efficiency level is that basically in the base 14 

## case, we have the distribution of efficiency that 15 

## came from the manufacturer data, that has all the 16 

## different pump performance data. 17 

## If then as we step through each efficiency 18 

## level, if the pump assigned to a customer in each 19 

## standards case does not pass the efficiency criteria, 20 

## then that user is assigned a redesigned pump that 21 

## just meets the standard level in question. So 22 

## nothing changes, unless the pump doesn't meet theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## proposed level. 2 

## This is just a diagram of the LCC inputs 3 

## and calculations. So on the left you see the MSPs 4 

## and the markups that we've been talking about, and 5 

## the energy use, and then there's a few other 6 

## variables, lifetime, discount rate, electricity price 7 

## trends that go into the calculations. So this is a 8 

## summary of those inputs. Basically we -- for the 9 

## 10,000 installations, it's a weighted sample of pump 10 

## -- of speed, power, flow, sector and application. 11 

## So we had several different databases that 12 

## we sort of merged together to get these sample 13 

## weights, to try to reflect the population as best we 14 

## could. The equipment price in the base case is 15 

## determined, as Dan discussed, with the MSP and 16 

## distribution channel markups. In each standards 17 

## case, because of these conversion costs that Dan was 18 

## discussing, we have to allocate those conversion 19 

## costs to the pumps that fail and get redesigned at 20 

## each standard level. 21 

## So every time we look at a different 22 

## efficiency level, we're increasing the prices ofCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## those pumps that have to get redesigned. So we're 2 

## basically assuming all the cost gets passed on to the 3 

## customer, because that's the most conservative 4 

## approach for the customer. This is all consistent 5 

## with what we did during the working group. 6 

## There's a couple of things we're not using 7 

## in here, basically installation, maintenance and 8 

## repair costs are not expected to change with 9 

## efficiency levels, so they're not included in this 10 

## analysis. So it basically doesn't impact the change 11 

## in LCC between base case and standards case. So 12 

## those are ignored. The energy, as I just discussed, 13 

## from the energy use analysis, and that's paired with 14 

## the electricity prices that we're using from AEO 15 

## 2014, along with trends into the future. 16 

## The lifetime we discussed in pretty good 17 

## detail with the working group. We started with 18 

## service lifetime in years, and then we related the 19 

## mechanical lifetime to operating hours, so that pumps 20 

## that are used more have a shorter lifetime, and 21 

## similarly pumps that are -- run faster have a shorter 22 

## lifetime. The average lifetime across all the pumpCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## equipment classes is approximately 15 years, but it 2 

## does vary by equipment class, depending on where it's 3 

## used and design and that kind of thing. 4 

## Discount rates are basically used to 5 

## convert annual operating expenses to the year of 6 

## purchase. For all the sectors except for municipal 7 

## we used weighted average cost of capital from equity 8 

## and debt financing. So the equity is determined 9 

## using the capital asset pricing model, and debt 10 

## financing is using data from Damodaran online. 11 

## For municipal, it's done a little 12 

## differently. It's based on state and local bonds 13 

## issued by the Federal Reserve. And then as I 14 

## mentioned previously, we do start with an efficiency 15 

## distribution in the base case, and that was all based 16 

## on the shipments data provided by the manufacturers 17 

## and HI. 18 

## So this is just an example of the LCC 19 

## results for one of the equipment classes. So you can 20 

## see on the right the average savings for each 21 

## customer, and the percent of customers who actually 22 

## end up paying more under standards than in the baseCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## case. So you can see for the chosen, the proposed 2 

## efficiency level, there's positive average savings 3 

## and a very low percent net cost. 4 

## So all the other results for the other 5 

## equipment classes are available in the NOPR and the 6 

## TSD. Okay. So shipments has basically -- this is an 7 

## input for the National Impact Analysis and the 8 

## Manufacturer Impact Analysis, estimating shipments 9 

## over a 30-year analysis period. 10 

## So for this rulemaking, this is all 11 

## exactly as we discussed during the working group. 12 

## It's a fairly simple shipments model. We started 13 

## with the 2012 shipments from the Hydraulic Institute 14 

## and manufacturers. We distributed those in the four 15 

## sectors based on our weighting estimates from the 16 

## LCC, and then we projected shipments by sector using 17 

## these indicator variables in the Annual Energy 18 

## Outlook, which are commercial floor space, which we 19 

## used for the commercial sector; value of 20 

## manufacturing shipments, which we used for the 21 

## industrial sector; value of agriculture, mining and 22 

## construction, used for agriculture; and population,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## which we used for the municipal. 2 

## So we project shipments across those four 3 

## sectors, total them together and then disaggregate 4 

## them into equipment classes based on the 2012 market 5 

## shares. So this is just a graph on the left of the 6 

## projection by sector. This is basically tying the 7 

## 2012 shipments to the AEO forecast, and on the right 8 

## is the final shipments projections. 9 

## There's a reference, low and high case. 10 

## The reference case is what we talk about mostly, but 11 

## we do run some scenarios in the TSD with the high and 12 

## low cases, in case you're interested. 13 

## Okay. The National Impact Analysis is 14 

## used to determine the projected National Energy 15 

## Savings and National Net Present Value. So it's 16 

## taking into account an annual series of energy and 17 

## economic impacts, and it's using the shipments model 18 

## to calculate the stock of pumps in service each year 19 

## that are affected. 20 

## So the NES is basically the difference 21 

## between standards case energy use and base case 22 

## energy use over this 30-year period, and the NationalCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Net Present Value compares the cumulative operating 2 

## cost savings, which in this case is really energy 3 

## cost, to the cumulative installed cost increases, and 4 

## it also uses a discount rate. 5 

## So that's used to determine whether 6 

## there's national savings or cost from each proposed 7 

## -- each potential standard level. Yes. 8 

## MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler with Nidec. So 9 

## what -- at the end of the day, what was the terawatt 10 

## hours that we estimate will be? 11 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Well, I'm not quite there. 12 

## MR. BOTELER: Oh, I'm sorry. 13 

## MS. WILLIAMS: So it's a surprise. So the 14 

## inputs to the National Impact Analysis, most of them 15 

## are weighted average values that come out of the 16 

## LCCs. So they take into account the whole 17 

## population. So there's the installed cost, which in 18 

## this case is really just the equipment cost, because 19 

## again, installation costs were assumed not to vary 20 

## with efficiency level. 21 

## Same thing with repair and maintenance 22 

## costs. They're not taken into account here, becauseCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## we'll assume they're the same. Annual Energy Use is 2 

## again taken from the LCC. One thing that is 3 

## different here that we talked in the working group 4 

## about us needing to do, but hadn't actually 5 

## implemented it yet, was to make these adjustments for 6 

## trimmed impellers and for pumps using VFDs. 7 

## So we basically made some assumption about 8 

## impellers being trimmed on average to 85 percent, and 9 

## that some percentage of pumps without trimmed 10 

## impellers are run off VFDs, and there's a penetration 11 

## rate that increases over time with the VFDs. So 12 

## these things basically serve to reduce the potential 13 

## energy savings from this rule, because they're 14 

## already using less power than just looking at all 15 

## pumps as full impeller and throttling. 16 

## So those details of how we made those 17 

## adjustments are available in both the NOPR and the 18 

## TSD if you guys want to take a look, and we did 19 

## request comment on those. There's certainly some -- 20 

## potentially some refinements we can make to that if 21 

## anybody has inputs on those factors that affect the 22 

## energy use. Again, the base case efficiencies are theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## same. 2 

## MR. ROY: I'm Aniruddh Roy with Goodman. 3 

## Just one question on the repair and maintenance 4 

## costs. Was there any evaluation done on if there 5 

## would be any variation in repair and maintenance 6 

## costs on applied products, if these were installed in 7 

## other equipment, and how that could vary for pumps in 8 

## those applications? 9 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. So we did not 10 

## actually look at that. We are focusing just on the 11 

## pump itself, and whether or not the characteristics 12 

## of the pump that would have to change as a result of 13 

## the standard would impact those repair and 14 

## maintenance. We understand them to be -- essentially 15 

## if you looked at them, they would almost always look 16 

## pretty much the same, and would just have a 17 

## redesigned impeller and volute. We screened out 18 

## changes that might affect the reliability and 19 

## performance. 20 

## So there's specific reasons that we 21 

## believe maintenance and repair wouldn't change, and 22 

## it doesn't -- again, we didn't analyze thatCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## specifically. It doesn't seem to me that it would 2 

## impact what you're talking about. But we would 3 

## certainly welcome comment if you have anything to 4 

## suggest differently. 5 

## MR. ROY: Okay. 6 

## MS. WILLIAMS: So the base case and 7 

## standards case efficiencies, again base case is the 8 

## same as we used in the LCC. We did not project any 9 

## growth. Sometimes in other rulemakings, we assume 10 

## that even without a standard, the efficiency will 11 

## change over time. We discussed with the working 12 

## group, but no one was really sure about this. So we 13 

## just maintained constant efficiency distribution in 14 

## the base case. 15 

## In the standards case, what happens is a 16 

## roll up scenario, which means that pumps that don't 17 

## meet the standard don't -- rolled up just to the 18 

## standard. So the minimum they have to. There was 19 

## some discussion over whether, you know, would assume 20 

## that some actually go up higher. But what the 21 

## working group basically settled on was that this was 22 

## sufficient for this analysis. So that's what weCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## carried forward here. 2 

## Again, the energy prices are used based on 3 

## the AEO 2014 forecast. We do incorporate full fuel 4 

## cycle energy savings. So there's a multiplier to 5 

## convert the site energy to the full fuel cycle 6 

## energy. The discount rate for the NIA is seven 7 

## percent and three percent, and this is based on 8 

## guidance from OMB, and we're discounting all expenses 9 

## to year 2015. 10 

## MR. FERSTROM: Alison, this is Gary. Do 11 

## you know what the site full cycle multiplier is? 12 

## MS. WILLIAMS: I don't know off the top of 13 

## my head. It would be in Chapter 10 of the TSD. It's 14 

## based on the sector in use here, and it doesn't 15 

## differ significantly from other rules that we're 16 

## using. 17 

## MR. FERSTROM: Okay, thank you. 18 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Paul. 19 

## MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka. Alison, in 20 

## the quest of getting these higher efficiencies, you 21 

## mentioned that the repair and maintenance cost would 22 

## not be impacted. However, in many frequentCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## instances, the drive to get higher efficiencies 2 

## impacts suction performance, and we're trying to 3 

## retrofit into existing applications and other 4 

## industrial sites. 5 

## Those products will wear our prematurely 6 

## as a result of cavitation damage and erosion, because 7 

## of the quest for higher efficiency, and there's 8 

## several markets that are going to be directly 9 

## impacted, especially condensate type return products, 10 

## which would also tend to slide into this product mix. 11 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So if you have data 12 

## or information on sort of at what efficiency level 13 

## those changes might happen, where we could implement 14 

## them or some estimates of what the increased repair 15 

## cost or frequency would be. You don't need to know 16 

## them now, but that would be helpful. 17 

## MR. RUZICKA: I can just make a general 18 

## statement, that as you increase in efficiency, you 19 

## decrease your suction performance. So in other 20 

## words, you're going to need a more -- you need to 21 

## increase your NPSH required by the system. That can 22 

## also cause the customers themselves to incorporateCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## systems that are going to offset more than the energy 2 

## savings they would reap. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Can you quantify those 4 

## changes, because that would be sort of a proxy? 5 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah. So it's very 6 

## difficult for us -- so I mean I guess I should say, I 7 

## can't remember which on either repair or 8 

## maintenance costs, we did hear from the working group 9 

## that it's possible at some higher efficiency level, 10 

## that the cost increases, but no one was able to 11 

## quantify when that might occur or how much it might 12 

## be, and I think in the most part, people felt it was 13 

## probably above the level at which you negotiated. 14 

## But so I think what Doug's basically 15 

## asking is, short of actual data and information, it's 16 

## really hard for us to implement that. So feel free 17 

## to, you know, think about it and see what you can 18 

## come up with. 19 

## MR. RUZICKA: What I'll try to do is we'll 20 

## try to come up with the correlation between increased 21 

## efficiency versus decreased suction performance. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. Yeah, thatCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## would be good, yeah. 2 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So basically when we 3 

## do the -- 4 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I have a 5 

## quick comment on that. Admittedly, the suction 6 

## performance probably decreases as efficiency 7 

## increases. However, I would think specifiers and 8 

## engineers would be aware of that relationship, and 9 

## would not use a pump in a situation where the suction 10 

## pressure wasn't adequate to assure operation without 11 

## damage and significant deterioration. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 13 

## MR. HUBER: Al Huber, HI. It's highly 14 

## possible that in future installations where they have 15 

## an opportunity to do so, that may be possible. But 16 

## it may not be possible for retrofits or replacements, 17 

## and it may not be possible that you can get away from 18 

## it. I mean if -- there just may be no product 19 

## available with that higher NPSH. It's possible. 20 

## MR. FERSTROM: Okay, I understand. I 21 

## wasn't thinking about the retrofit application so 22 

## much. But being that we're not really increasing theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## efficiency very much, you know, I wouldn't think 2 

## there'd be a very significant impact on suction 3 

## pressure operation. But it would be good to get a 4 

## data. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark, Mark. 6 

## MR. HANDZEL: So Gary, just to give you, 7 

## and I think we've talked about the point in the 8 

## working group that, you know, if we're redesigning a 9 

## pump, we're not just going for a little bit of 10 

## efficiency improvement. We're going for as much as 11 

## we can get. So just don't forget that please, okay? 12 

## We're not going to try to do this again in five 13 

## years. We're doing it once and we're going to get 14 

## everything we can. 15 

## MS. WILLIAMS: So I will comment on that 16 

## though, is that when we do the analysis, it will be 17 

## tied to the minimum level. So even if you're 18 

## overshooting that, we're not necessarily capturing 19 

## that. Okay. 20 

## MR. FERSTROM: Okay. So thank you so much 21 

## for reminding me Mark, and good for you all. 22 

## (Laughter.)Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HANDZEL: Good for you too. 2 

## MR. STARR: So this flows from that. 3 

## I do have a question about it. Just intuitively, it 4 

## seems like you have more power being transmitted to 5 

## the working fluid, right? You'd have more 6 

## efficiency. It's not being burned up. It's 7 

## transmitting to the working core. So there you have 8 

## more available head and flow, right? 9 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: No. 10 

## (Off mic comment.) 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 12 

## MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka. That's 13 

## absolutely true, but that's on the output side. The 14 

## problem we're experiencing is at the entrance of the 15 

## impeller, the suction. What happens when you drive 16 

## for higher efficiencies, you're using smaller 17 

## impeller inlet areas, smaller watering clearances to 18 

## reduce those volumetric clearance losses, slightly 19 

## tighter tolerances as not to affect reliability. 20 

## But when you make all those changes, these 21 

## velocity increases manifest themselves into poor 22 

## suction performance, requiring higher NPSH available,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## and it may or may not be available in a retrofitted 2 

## situation. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Paul. Well 4 

## said. 5 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So we'll -- 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: That's a good summary. 7 

## MS. WILLIAMS: We'll certainly review 8 

## those comments when we get them for this, and 9 

## implement something if we can. So when we look at 10 

## the results of the National Impact Analysis, we 11 

## typically look at these things called trial standard 12 

## levels, which is basically a combination of potential 13 

## efficiency levels for each equipment class. 14 

## In this case, these are the same as we 15 

## looked at in the working group, and we've made them 16 

## consistent across all equipment classes. So at 17 

## TSL-1, every equipment class moves up one efficiency 18 

## level. At TSL-2, they each move up two. The 19 

## exception for this is RSV, which as you all know from 20 

## the working group, we didn't actually analyze, we 21 

## used the -- because they are global, sorry, a 22 

## product with a global platform.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## We're using the baseline as the EU minimum 2 

## standard for these pumps, and that's the proposed 3 

## standard for them, and we didn't actually conduct 4 

## analysis for them. So those remain at baseline for 5 

## each of the TSLs. 6 

## And I'll just finish this thought. So 7 

## this is just a summary of the TSLs. I know this 8 

## chart's really hard to read, but for your reference 9 

## later it has the efficiency level and the 10 

## corresponding C value for each equipment class by 11 

## TSL. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Wayne Spritz, who is 13 

## joining us online, has a question, and the question 14 

## is: has there been any analysis of how many end users 15 

## actually operate at the BEP? There is more waste in 16 

## this area, because pumps are often ordered oversized, 17 

## and when the system curve changes, how do you take 18 

## into account of the actual change in energy 19 

## consumption? 20 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. So going back to 21 

## Slide 116, which is the energy use analysis input 22 

## slides, we have a pump sizing variable and a loadCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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### profile variable. So the pump sizing corresponds to 2 

### pumps being operated away from BEP, generally 3 

### somewhere between 75 percent and 110 percent, and 4 

### this is a uniform distribution. So we're taking in 5 

### account variability of people generally sizing their 6 

### pumps away from BEP. 7 

### And then a load profile takes into account 8 

### 8 -- I don't actually have a slide on this, but 9 

### there's four -- there's generally I think four load 10 

### points, 50 percent, 75 percent, 100 percent, 110 11 

### percent, and each of these load profiles has a 12 

### different time spent at each of those loads relative 13 

### to the main duty point. So we are taking into 14 

### account -- and then we have pump curves and 15 

### efficiency curves. 16 

### So we're taking into account the 17 

### performance based on sizing away from BEP and based 18 

### on operating away from BEP. So I think we have 19 

### captured that in the analysis. Okay. 20 

### So these trial standard levels, and then 21 

### these are the results by trial standard level. These 22 

### are slightly different from what you saw in theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## working group. As I said, we implemented those 2 

## adjustments for impeller trim and VFD performance. 3 

## So these might not be exactly the same as you have 4 

## before. 5 

## For TSL-2, we're looking at .28 quads, and 6 

## then these are the consumer National Net Present 7 

## Values by TSL and equipment class. So you can see 8 

## that it's positive at TSL-2, the proposed level, at 9 

## both three percent and seven percent. 10 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: Is that annual? 11 

## MS. WILLIAMS: This is -- no. This is 12 

## cost over a 30-year period. Okay. So I'm going to 13 

## turn it over to Chris to do the MIA, unless anyone 14 

## has any final questions. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Chris Lau. 16 

## MR. LAU: Hello. My name's Christopher 17 

## Lau. I'll be presenting the Manufacturer Impact 18 

## Analysis. So the purpose of the MIA is to assess the 19 

## impacts of the standard on pump manufacturers 20 

## evaluated as an industry. The second purpose is to 21 

## identify a qualified impact on the manufacturers 22 

## subgroups, such as small business manufacturers, andCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## the final portion of MIA involves discussion of 2 

## direct employment, potential capacity constraints and 3 

## other federal regulations that go into effect around 4 

## the compliance at this standard. 5 

## Our slides don't cover all this content 6 

## today, but all these issues are reviewed and analyzed 7 

## in the notice, as well as in the TSD. The primary 8 

## tool used in the MIA is the Government Regulatory 9 

## Impact model, also known as the GRIM. It is a cash 10 

## flow model used to represent the industry as a whole. 11 

## The major output of the model is the 12 

## Industry Net Present Value or INPV. It's a metric 13 

## used to succinctly quantify the impacts of the 14 

## standard on the industry. We also conduct interviews 15 

## to validate inputs and refine assumptions using the 16 

## GRIM, and to better understand qualitative issues. 17 

## Here we present the GRIM and INPV results. 18 

## The second row shows the INPV for the base case or 19 

## the no standards case and the five trial standard 20 

## levels that were considered. We see a range of 21 

## results, because of two different manufacturer 22 

## markups. As Dan had described earlier, there's theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## flat pricing scenario as well as the cost recovery 2 

## scenario. 3 

## In general, the lower bound is the flat 4 

## pricing scenario and the higher number in that range 5 

## is the cost recovery scenario, because manufacturers 6 

## raise their prices and that results in more revenue, 7 

## and their attempt to recover their conversion 8 

## investments. 9 

## The bottom row of this is the change in -- 10 

## percent change in INPV. It's the same numbers show 11 

## as percent change from the base case. TSL-2 is 12 

## highlighted, today's proposed standard as you can 13 

## see. The range of potential results is a negative 30 14 

## percent to a 7 percent, positive 7 percent increase 15 

## in industry value. 16 

## DOE identified 25 domestic small 17 

## manufacturers that produced covered equipment. Most 18 

## of these companies produced covered pumps as well as 19 

## pumps that fall outside the scope of coverage. On 20 

## average, DOE found that roughly 24 percent of product 21 

## offerings from small manufacturers were covered 22 

## equipment.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## DOE did identify at least one small 2 

## manufacturer that produced, exclusively produced 3 

## pumps covered by today's proposed rule. We located 4 

## the portions of business that were -- that produced 5 

## covered pumps. DOE found that impacts were 6 

## comparable for small versus large manufacturers. 7 

## This conclusion was based on available public data, 8 

## which in many cases was a little bit limited. 9 

## In the notice, we request comment on the 10 

## number of small manufacturers producing covered 11 

## equipment on the market share and product offerings 12 

## from these manufacturers, on the cost of their 13 

## hydraulic redesign and their cost of the capital, to 14 

## help us refine the analysis further. 15 

## In addition to MIA, there were several 16 

## other downstream analyses done at the NOPR stage. 17 

## They're listed here and they include the LCC subgroup 18 

## analysis, the emissions impact analysis, the emissions 19 

## monetization analysis, utility impact, employment 20 

## analysis - which is indirect employment, as well as 21 

## the regulatory impact analysis that looks at 22 

## alternatives to today's regulation, proposedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## regulation. 2 

## I think at this point, I hand the baton 3 

## off to Ms. Armstrong. 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Ashley Armstrong. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. We're on the home 6 

## stretch, what everyone's been waiting for. Here are 7 

## the proposed standard levels for the various 8 

## equipment classes of pumps. We'll show them on the 9 

## slide. These are the standard levels specifically 10 

## that were negotiated by the committee without change. 11 

## As you can see, the index is the one value and 12 

## obviously that's dependent upon the C values in the 13 

## table. 14 

## So I will ask for comments on the actual 15 

## proposed standard, fully supportive comments or any 16 

## concerns you might want to raise at this time. 17 

## MR. HANDZEL: See, you're kind of going at 18 

## this a little bit differently Ashley. We were 19 

## expecting all the questions like we did this morning, 20 

## and we had answers prepared on the questions, and 21 

## we're not really reviewing the questions so -- 22 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, we can get there.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## You can chime in if you have answers. But don't you 2 

## want to first state at the outset that you may 3 

## support these levels as they're shown on the slide? 4 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary for the 5 

## California IOUs. Being that what you recommended 6 

## aligns with what the working group recommended, we 7 

## support it. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. Mark Handzel. 9 

## MR. HANDZEL: And I think you heard from 10 

## Al's statement this morning, his opening comments, 11 

## that we do as well. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Great, thank you. 13 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 14 

## MR. ECKMAN: Tom Eckman. To echo Gary's 15 

## endorsement from the advocate's position, we think 16 

## you wrote down the same numbers we agreed to. So 17 

## that's a good thing. 18 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That isn't always going to 19 

## happen. 20 

## (Simultaneous speaking.) 21 

## MR. ECKMAN: It doesn't always happen that 22 

## way, so great follow through.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Thank you. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: I think it's worth noting 4 

## that Tom and Al were kind of leaders of caucus groups 5 

## that represented the majority of the negotiators. So 6 

## their specific comments today are relevant, even in 7 

## this proceeding. Ashley. 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. So just moving 9 

## forward to the next one, which is the labeling 10 

## requirements. So this is a recommendation that came 11 

## out of the working group, which is a request for DOE 12 

## to actually propose a label for equipment. So these 13 

## are the labeling requirements, and are proposed to be 14 

## applied to marketing materials, as well as the name 15 

## plates on the actual pump itself. 16 

## They include different things for whether 17 

## it's a bare pump, a bare pump plus motor, I guess 18 

## it's more or less the same thing, or a bare pump, 19 

## motor and controls, depending on what is shipped. 20 

## All essentially start from a pump. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel. 22 

## MR. HANDZEL: So Ashley, I'm not sure ifCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## you were in the working group when this was 2 

## discussed, but we just want to just reconfirm that we 3 

## sell pumps to our distributors, and typically it's 4 

## common for them to rebuild, rework that pump and trim 5 

## the impeller. So we just want to make it known that 6 

## we have occasions when we sell pumps without an 7 

## impeller diameter noted, because when it's, you know, 8 

## officially prepared to be sold, the distributor notes 9 

## the impeller diameter that he's actually providing. 10 

## So it's just a small exception. It's one 11 

## that's covered, and we discussed the fact that some 12 

## of our distributors, you know, manufacture as well. 13 

## So it's just a point of clarification, that we aren't 14 

## always the one putting that impeller diameter on the 15 

## name plate. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Are they going to put the 17 

## impeller diameter -- 18 

## MR. HANDZEL: Absolutely, absolutely. 19 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: --on the name plate? 20 

## MR. HANDZEL: Absolutely, yes. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 22 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. I think that's anCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## important clarification. My mind's kind of working 2 

## on how that might be implemented. 3 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, and just to give you, 4 

## you know, end suction close coupled for examples. We 5 

## sell kits, Ashley, so we don't, you know, we put all 6 

## the pump parts in a box, and our distributor would 7 

## buy a motor locally and put it together, to maybe 8 

## satisfy a quick lead time request. So in that case, 9 

## you know, they would be stamping the name plate to 10 

## put the actual impeller diameter that they -- they 11 

## will trim the impeller, you know. So they would put 12 

## the actual impeller diameter on it. 13 

## You know, so we would supply them a name 14 

## plate in there that would have, for example, the full 15 

## diameter PEI/CL on it, and then they would indicate 16 

## the actual impeller diameter that they supply. 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: As they are your 18 

## distributors and you have this relationship with 19 

## them, you can expect them to be consistent and 20 

## uniform in the application? 21 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yeah. We give them our name 22 

## plates, you know, with the blank spot on it for theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## impeller diameter. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: That's everything in DOE 3 

## rules, right? 4 

## MR. HANDZEL: Uh-huh. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 6 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I think 7 

## this all revolves around the term "sold." So sold by 8 

## whom, and I'm sure that all the necessary information 9 

## will be there when the product is sold to the 10 

## ultimate consumer or user. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. Louis. 12 

## MR. STARR: So this is less about the 13 

## technical aspects of it, but one of the things I 14 

## would like to say that in terms in the standards that 15 

## we came up with, also combined with this labeling 16 

## requirements is, I think, an opportunity for utility 17 

## programs and standards to work together, to get a lot 18 

## more energy savings. 19 

## So I think it -- and also I would also say 20 

## Hydraulics Institute, without their support, in kind 21 

## of how a pump is defined is very important. So I 22 

## think in this particular rulemaking, this is a prettyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## good example of where all the parties came together 2 

## in the interest of saving energy, but also that works 3 

## with industry in terms of the outcome. I think it's 4 

## a good precedent for other rulemakings as well. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you Louis. 6 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I second 7 

## that. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks to both of you. 9 

## Okay. So additional comments on the labeling 10 

## requirements? That was a useful comment, Mark. 11 

## Additional thoughts on this? 12 

## MR. HANDZEL: We found the labeling 13 

## requirements to be consistent to the agreement in the 14 

## working, you know, from the working groups to the 15 

## term sheet. So we're good. 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, thank you. Okay. 17 

## Lastly, we're going to talk about certification 18 

## requirements, and what this includes, and it's a 19 

## topic that Louis brought up earlier, and we haven't 20 

## -- I haven't put all the data specifically on the 21 

## screen. But there is a substantial number of 22 

## paragraphs in Part 429. But what this includes isCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## the data that you will actually report to the 2 

## Department once you have to comply with standards. 3 

## So as you know, we used an Excel-based 4 

## template. You have to submit electronically through 5 

## CCMS, and these certification requirements would be 6 

## applicable to all the models that you're distributing 7 

## in commerce in the U.S., and you would have to submit 8 

## them before distribution in commerce in this case, 9 

## with compliance date with standards, and then 10 

## annually thereafter. 11 

## So here are some of the elements of the 12 

## certification report. Like I said, they're not all 13 

## on there. You can look at the red text. But this is 14 

## generally the type of information that you would be 15 

## submitting to the Department. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark. 17 

## MR. HANDZEL: Ashley, I mean this is like 18 

## you said. It's all per the term sheet. So I mean 19 

## there's no issue. Obviously, none of us work with 20 

## this database now, have no experience with it. So 21 

## certainly we would expect some training or something 22 

## in the future as to what --Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. ARMSTRONG: We're going to become good 2 

## friends. 3 

## MR. HANDZEL: Right, good. I'm afraid of 4 

## that. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Louis. 6 

## MR. STARR: So this is Louis Starr. 7 

## MR. HANDZEL: And let's just ask one 8 

## question, and we've kind of heard this a little bit 9 

## from Louis this morning. When we were talking about 10 

## the calculator, you know, do we put the data in and 11 

## your system calculates the PEI/CL? Or are we 12 

## supposed to calculate it and we manually input it? 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. 14 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay, so you can understand 15 

## why we want the calculator then, okay? 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. So we might as well 17 

## just jump right to that issue. 18 

## MR. HANDZEL: We need to get there, so -- 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So let's discuss the 20 

## calculator. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Louis had a question. 22 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Oh, you wanted to talkCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## about certain -- 2 

## MR. STARR: Yeah. Well, just a little 3 

## bit. But we can get into calculator right after 4 

## that. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That's going to be a hot 6 

## topic. 7 

## MR. STARR: Yeah, the one thing is the 8 

## inputs that -- so it sounds like basically just a 9 

## blank sheet that they're putting their information 10 

## in. It really would be helpful for the driver input, 11 

## HP at each load point, that that to show up in the 12 

## certification database, so when Gary or someone else 13 

## runs their program, they can look at those load 14 

## points. 15 

## Because they may be how they rebate. It 16 

## depends upon the values at each one of those load 17 

## points. So they need to know that information, and 18 

## we need to have 500 pumps. You don't want to go out 19 

## and manually do that. So if you can just point them 20 

## out of the DOE manual or to the DOE certification 21 

## database, and then the program manager can also go 22 

## and get that same information, pull it down, run itCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## through his utility program. So that was one thing 2 

## I saw. But we'll look -- 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Joanna, you had a comment 4 

## earlier that's consistent, and going in this 5 

## direction I believe. 6 

## MS. MAUER: And I would just add, I think 7 

## that was certainly our intent. I don't remember the 8 

## exact language that we put in the term sheet. But of 9 

## course it doesn't do utilities any good to just have 10 

## it in the certification reports if it's not also 11 

## publicly available. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I will clarify that on 13 

## Part 429, the information that we propose to collect 14 

## for certification would be public. So if there's 15 

## elements of that should or shouldn't be, if there are 16 

## any issues with that information that we would 17 

## collect broadly, at least the product-specific 18 

## information would be public. There are certain, I 19 

## think, across the board information that does not get 20 

## passed through. 21 

## MS. MAUER: Okay, thank you. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HANDZEL: Well I just, you know, 2 

## coming back to the calculator, you know obviously 3 

## this group of manufacturers and our HI members that 4 

## participated worked with previous versions of the 5 

## calculator. As we were working through the working 6 

## group, we found it very useful. We found it 7 

## eliminated a lot of, you know, questions, 8 

## interpretations. 9 

## It was very straightforward. So we have 10 

## been working under the assumption that we were going 11 

## to get those calculators since last July and, you 12 

## know, so we're saying, we still expect them. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm going to come sit at 14 

## the table for this discussion, take the jacket off a 15 

## little. So calculator. So DOE's general approach to 16 

## calculators -- well, let's talk about DOE's general 17 

## approach to development of ratings is the accuracy of 18 

## those ratings is on the onus of the manufacturer, you 19 

## know. 20 

## When you send in that cert report, you are 21 

## signing a statement, a legally binding statement at 22 

## that, saying you know, this information is accurate.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## I have tested in accordance with the test procedure, 2 

## etcetera, etcetera. 3 

## Now DOE does not provide DOE-approved 4 

## simulation models, calculation models, calculators or 5 

## anything like that, that it's willing to say, you 6 

## know, all manufacturers use this specific tool to 7 

## calculate your ratings, and then send it back to us. 8 

## That's not -- that's something we've 9 

## declined to do. We've been asked to provide, in 10 

## other contexts what we call AEDMs, which are actual 11 

## simulations of our test procedure rather than actual 12 

## testing, and we decline to do that as well. 13 

## That onus is -- the regs allow their use, 14 

## but that onus is on the manufacturer. They can 15 

## develop them as they want. They must be done in 16 

## accordance with the regs, etcetera, etcetera. That 17 

## being said, I think DOE is willing to entertain 18 

## providing a public version of the calculator in this 19 

## instance. However, if you are to use that 20 

## calculator, there will be some caveats on it that 21 

## says, you know, its accuracy in determining your 22 

## ratings is on you, you know.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## It's not going to be a DOE kind of 2 

## calculator that you're thinking of, in terms of you 3 

## put in your test data, it outputs something and it's 4 

## DOE approved as a rating. DOE does not approve certs 5 

## per say or the accuracy of ratings. You submit the 6 

## ratings, you submit the certification report and we 7 

## go from there. 8 

## I think DOE understands the value of the 9 

## calculator. Obviously we, the collective we, worked 10 

## hard on developing the calculator. We would like to 11 

## work with you, to make sure that the calculator is 12 

## QC'd from our perspective and your perspective. We 13 

## are willing to provide a version for use, just like 14 

## we do -- so I don't know if you're familiar with our 15 

## test data templates. 16 

## If we test a product for verification or 17 

## enforcement at a third party lab, we make them use 18 

## our test data templates, which has some execution of 19 

## our procedures in it, and those are publicly 20 

## available online. So it would be similar. If you go 21 

## ahead and use those though, the accuracy of those 22 

## ratings is still going to be on you.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark. 2 

## MR. HANDZEL: Thank you. Ashley, I mean 3 

## we worked closely with the DOE and your consultants 4 

## to develop those calculators, and this group around 5 

## the table, we're not the ones we're worried about, 6 

## okay. We want to make this simple and easy for 7 

## everyone in this business to understand, and we just 8 

## feel that that's a very straightforward way to 9 

## communicate. 10 

## So I mean understand we're not trying to 11 

## be difficult. We're just saying help us communicate 12 

## this. There are many, many pump manufacturers 13 

## outside of our membership that we have tried to get 14 

## involved and to communicate with on what was going on 15 

## here, and they aren't paying attention. So we think 16 

## it will help you communicate with them as well, and 17 

## get them to pay attention. So thank you. 18 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I think we'll work 19 

## through that with you guys, specifically offline and 20 

## then once we do make it available, you will see some 21 

## language crafted by my dear friend sitting next to 22 

## me, with some caveats around it, in terms of it'sCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## commercial use types of things. Okay. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We have a few questions 3 

## from those joining us online. Rob Mulaney asks when 4 

## is the revised PEI calculator Excel going to be made 5 

## available to pump manufacturers? We didn't establish 6 

## a time frame, I don't think. 7 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I mean I think we are 8 

## doing our due diligence in terms of some QC first. I 9 

## think what we will also do before we make it publicly 10 

## available is maybe share a version with HI, to ask 11 

## them to do the same, go back and forth I guarantee 12 

## about an issue or two probably before we make it 13 

## public. 14 

## But it will be in the near term. I don't 15 

## know that you necessarily -- well, I guess the 16 

## question for you, do you really need it to comment on 17 

## the standards, since you in theory negotiated it? 18 

## MR. HUBER: If by saying yes we'll get it 19 

## sooner, yes. But -- 20 

## (Laughter.) 21 

## MR. HUBER: But we want to be clear. What 22 

## we're looking for is a CL calculator and a VLCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## calculator. So there will be two separate ones. 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Needy. Okay. I mean fair 3 

## enough. We'll work through it. I understand that 4 

## there's -- it's not going to be tomorrow, it's not 5 

## going to be next year either. So we'll work through 6 

## those issues. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Now we have 8 

## another question from online. Thomas Haan asks is 9 

## there a payback analysis for the end user, who will 10 

## pay a higher price for the increased pump efficiency? 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: The answer is yes. The 12 

## specific results to that payback analysis are in the 13 

## NOPR and in the TSD. 14 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Yes, Peter. 15 

## MR. GAYDON: Just a comment from the 16 

## Hydraulic Institute, that we would be, you know, 17 

## willing to convene a committee to work on the 18 

## calculator with the Department of Energy, to aid in 19 

## that process. 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. How fast does your 21 

## committee work? 22 

## MR. GAYDON: That -- it depends.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## (Laughter.) 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I know the feeling. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I did want to note one 5 

## thing, and this has to do with some language, some 6 

## general language that well, it is not necessarily 7 

## directly applicable to this particular proceeding; 8 

## is part of the working group kind of recommendations 9 

## and scope. 10 

## So DOE did just, you know, issue a request 11 

## for information, starting the process for dedicated 12 

## purpose pool pumps. We specifically asked for 13 

## comments about voluntary programs, regulatory 14 

## programs, scope, test procedures, ratings, metrics 15 

## and data need. So this would be the first you're 16 

## seeing, the kickoff for that process starting, and we 17 

## plan to move forward with that. 18 

## So we just wanted to bring it to your 19 

## attention, and just acknowledge that we held up our 20 

## end of the bargain here. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. 22 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. As weCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## discussed earlier, the presence or absence of the 2 

## integrated basket strainer may not be the key 3 

## differentiating feature here. 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. So we look 5 

## forward to getting those comments and, like I said 6 

## earlier, I fully expect that definition to be revised 7 

## in this process, as we learn more about all the 8 

## different aspects of pool pumps. Really the purpose 9 

## of or the need for some type of definition now is to 10 

## establish that kind of carve-out. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob. 12 

## MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler, NEMA. In 13 

## looking at your definitions, it's going to be the 14 

## suction pump that you're going to be regulating. Are 15 

## you planning to also include the motor and the 16 

## control? 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I think generally 18 

## speaking, that was the intent of the working group. 19 

## MR. BOTELER: So it really becomes -- 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Because the pump as a 21 

## whole is defined as the pump, motor and controls for 22 

## purposes of coverage. So any definitions falling outCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## from that would also -- would fall back to that 2 

## coverage definition, which include all three. 3 

## MR. BOTELER: So NEMA could -- should 4 

## probably treat this really as a motor regulation, as 5 

## much as I -- 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: NEMA can treat this 7 

## however they'd like to characterize it. It is a pool 8 

## pumps rulemaking. 9 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. We're 10 

## probably getting ahead of ourselves here, but some 11 

## products will be just pumps and motors, and some 12 

## products will be pumps, motor and integral drives or 13 

## controls. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Just like they were today. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Paul. 16 

## MR. RUZICKA: I just wanted to mention the 17 

## fact that the testing at 40.6 doesn't care whether 18 

## it's a pool pump or any other pump. 19 

## So depending on how the regulation is 20 

## written and what are the output metrics, and I would 21 

## assume they're similar or going to be quite similar 22 

## to what was worked with on the industrial clean waterCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## pumps, that we would have no problem with using 40.6. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Mark. 3 

## MR. HANDZEL: But just to follow on, that 4 

## just much like we found with the circulator product 5 

## description, you know, the Hydraulic Institute has no 6 

## definition for pool pumps. We have no product 7 

## classification, we do not collect data on pool pumps. 8 

## So you know, this is going into another 9 

## one of those new frontiers that will require, you 10 

## know, a committee, and you don't necessarily have the 11 

## right people at the table, you know, to be having 12 

## that discussion. We tried to get them interested in 13 

## HI membership, but wasn't fully successful. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I will say one thing. 15 

## Sorry Gary, let me chime in here. So this shows you 16 

## our intent to initiate a rule and to go forth with 17 

## our analysis independent of a working group. That 18 

## being said, we're always open to working group 19 

## formations, but we would need the parties, if they 20 

## were interested, to come together and formally 21 

## request that. 22 

## But this shows you that our, you know,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## two-three year process has started. That time clock 2 

## has started. 3 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. 4 

## California, EnergyStar and other states have already 5 

## adopted some pool pump efficiency regulations that 6 

## really aren't very consistent with what's been 7 

## adopted for commercial-industrial pumps in general. 8 

## So I wouldn't want to preclude considering 9 

## the approach that has already been taken by others, 10 

## in addition to alternative approaches that DOE might 11 

## consider. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: Gary, just a question on 14 

## that. I thought you clarified for us in the working 15 

## group that they weren't pump efficiency-related. 16 

## They were pool pump motor-related. Is that my 17 

## misunderstanding? 18 

## MR. FERSTROM: No. It's the whole thing. 19 

## It's gallons per watt hour. So you've got a metric 20 

## that includes both the pump performance and the motor 21 

## performance in a prescribed system. So the system 22 

## curve on which those measurements are taken isCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## specified. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob, did you want to 3 

## comment here? 4 

## MR. BOTELER: Yeah. I would just say as 5 

## someone who worked with the working group, it's nice 6 

## to see the Department of Energy crosses their T's and 7 

## dotting their I's, and really following through on 8 

## some important issues for the working group. That's 9 

## excellent. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So then moving to, I 11 

## believe, closing remarks. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I'm going to put this 13 

## up, but I know you have a list of questions and 14 

## potentially clarifications that you may want to do 15 

## it. This would be a good time to walk through those 16 

## if you'd like to now. 17 

## MR. HANDZEL: So Ashley, we've reviewed 18 

## our list. Mark Handzel, Xylem, and you know, we've 19 

## covered the key ones that we felt were important to 20 

## cover today. 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. 22 

## MR. HANDZEL: So certainly we will coverCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## all of them in our written comments. But I think the 2 

## key items have been addressed. 3 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, great. Well, I'm 4 

## going to open the floor for any closing remarks for 5 

## anyone that would like to make them, and then 6 

## obviously we would like to thank you all for coming. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And then just to clarify 8 

## Mark, those -- all those items, you're going to 9 

## include those in your written comments? 10 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yes. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So let's take 12 

## closing remarks at this time. Tom Eckman. 13 

## MR. ECKMAN: Yeah. I'd like to thank the 14 

## Department for moving forward on pool pumps. That 15 

## certainly was another element that we had hoped that 16 

## we could address through this rulemaking process, and 17 

## we have pretty much concluded, touched base on every 18 

## one of the elements of the term sheet, save for one. 19 

## We're still working on circulators. 20 

## I'd like to make sure that we and the 21 

## manufacturers continue to pursue that with haste. I 22 

## understand from both our side of the table and yourCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## side of the table, we have great empathy for the 2 

## bandwidth limitations you have. You see here before 3 

## you more than half of the advocates, and we are 4 

## called in every one of these rulemakings. So we 5 

## understand the problem. 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: If it makes you feel 7 

## better, I'm involved in every one of these 8 

## rulemakings. 9 

## MR. ECKMAN: Yes, but this turned out to 10 

## be your full-time job. We have many others. 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That could be argued. 12 

## MR. ECKMAN: So I want to make sure that, 13 

## you know, we move with haste on that one. We would 14 

## recommend that the manufacturers, you know, take 15 

## advantage of the contractor assistance that DOE's 16 

## made available, to help move things as quickly as 17 

## possible, and we had hoped that we could be in better 18 

## and closer communication with you on where things 19 

## stand on a more regular basis. 20 

## I know you have multiple meetings and 21 

## things like that, and this clearly, for the ones in 22 

## the -- for the folks in the room dominate yourCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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### agenda, and we have sympathy for that. But we'd like 2 

### to see, you know, we were hoping that we'd have 3 

### something by early this year to start talking about 4 

### in detail. It's getting to be a year from the time 5 

### we agreed on the last one, and that to us is -- it's 6 

### not that we're thinking you're laggards. 7 

### It's just we'd like to move on this and 8 

### get it done, so that we can get as close as possible 9 

### synchronization between this rulemaking and what 10 

### might come out of circulators. So that's sort of our 11 

### hope, that we move forthwith on this agenda and not 12 

### to impugn your integrity. I think it's where we 13 

### understand the depth of discussion they'd have to go 14 

### through to make this happen. 15 

### But we'd like to be -- have engagement 16 

### move as fast as possible on it and be done with it. 17 

### I'm sure you would too. 18 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al. 19 

### MR. HUBER: Well on behalf of the 20 

### Hydraulic Institute, I would like to thank the EE 21 

### NGOs and the Department of Energy for their 22 

### cooperation, and I think this is a very good effort forCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## our industry, and I think it is for the country as a 2 

## whole. I think we'll all benefit from it in the end. 3 

## It hasn't been easy, but I think it's been 4 

## profitable. 5 

## I would like to say Tom that we certainly 6 

## are pursuing this. It's not that we're not pursuing 7 

## this on the circulators, and actually we're meeting 8 

## no less than twice a month and sometimes more than 9 

## that. We're starting with a product that we had no 10 

## data on, a product that we had no definition on, and 11 

## now we find out our definition that we finally after 12 

## months of work is not satisfactory to DOE. 13 

## So I, you know, we're working on it, and 14 

## we'll continue to do that, and we will commit to try 15 

## to give you at least monthly updates, at a minimum 16 

## exactly where we are and what we're doing. Right 17 

## now, we're in a data acquisition mode, to try to get 18 

## some additional data that we think would be 19 

## beneficial to be able to come up with a rulemaking. 20 

## So we're after that. So I mean we do have 21 

## the key players in the industry. Some of them are at 22 

## the table today. So we'll get there, but it doesCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## take time. When we were faced with two NOPRs that 2 

## are over 400 pages apiece, and we had to concentrate 3 

## on trying to get ready for this and we'll have to 4 

## concentrate now on writing our letters and doing our 5 

## thing. 6 

## So we should have a little extra time 7 

## maybe, after we get through this. Thank you. 8 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I'd like 9 

## to thank DOE and everybody involved in the process 10 

## coming at this conclusion for commercial-industrial 11 

## pumps. I second Tom's point. I'm delighted that 12 

## DOE's moving forward with swimming pool pumps. We 13 

## need to get going on circulators, and I think the 14 

## whole collective effort will be more efficient and 15 

## productive if we have DOE and its consultants' 16 

## assistance with it. 17 

## So we'll work with HI, to see if we can't 18 

## collectively request of ASRAC a working group to 19 

## address this. I fear that if we proceed on our own, 20 

## there will be a little miscommunication and a little 21 

## wasted effort, and when we all get together 22 

## collectively, we'll have to redo some things. SoCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## best to get together as a group sooner rather than 2 

## later. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Louis Starr. 4 

## MR. STARR: This is Louis Starr of NEEA. 5 

## Actually that was kind of one of my concerns, what 6 

## Gary brought up. I'm concerned that if we come up 7 

## with a regulatory frame that doesn't really meet what 8 

## it needs, we get into collecting a lot of data that 9 

## you just have to go back out and recollect. 10 

## So I'm kind of wondering if some more 11 

## structure inside of what we're trying to do, similar 12 

## to when we're setting levels for the other ones. It 13 

## was -- there was problems with the calculator right, 14 

## and then we went back and forth. But without that 15 

## interaction on what could be done, it's sort of 16 

## there's so many what-ifs that if you proceed down the 17 

## road too far, you're pretty easy to get astray. 18 

## So I'm wondering if the context of the 19 

## negotiations around the circulators might make sense 20 

## to be inside of more of a feedback loop with DOE. 21 

## But I think we can discuss that. But also, I don't 22 

## really know what DOE's, what's the word, bandwidth onCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## doing anything more, or what their capabilities are 2 

## or are not around this, and would be interested in 3 

## knowing that. 4 

## MR. FERSTROM: Well just to add to your 5 

## point, I think we identified in the working group the 6 

## enormous, relatively speaking, savings potential 7 

## associated with circulators. So we should not let 8 

## that opportunity go unrecognized. 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Rob Boteler. 10 

## MR. BOTELER: Yeah. I would just comment. 11 

## We are -- we have started down the path of what we 12 

## finally refer to as Small Motor II, and Small Motor 13 

## II is a regulation that we wanted -- well we think; 14 

## these guys don't know this yet -- the discussion, 15 

## right, one-sixth through three horsepower and it's -- 16 

## we haven't really locked in on the technology. 17 

## So I think there's going to be an awful 18 

## lot of overlap if we start to look at PFCs and SCs 19 

## and ECMs and some of these other products that are 20 

## used in pool pumps and in circulators. John has had 21 

## some comments with us, some conversations about 22 

## double regulation, and we at Nidec are notCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## necessarily opposed to double regulation. 2 

## But I think we need to be really paying 3 

## attention to what's going on in both rulemakings, to 4 

## make sure that when we regulate the product in the 5 

## small motors, the second round of small motors, that 6 

## we're consistent with what we want to see in the pool 7 

## pumps and the circulators. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 9 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary, and the 10 

## work on motors is good and we're delighted to see it. 11 

## But when motors are applied with pumps and fans, I 12 

## think especially in those small horsepower ranges, we 13 

## see system effects that are important, and the 14 

## circulator pump work and the pool pump work I think 15 

## is better able to capture those system effects than a 16 

## motor regulation alone. 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Final remarks 18 

## then. 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, I'm going to answer 20 

## your question. 21 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: Oh no. 22 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I was going to let Doug goCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## with it. So it's your question about bandwidth. I 2 

## mean I think that we've initiated it for pool pumps. 3 

## So you know that with that RFI, you see DOE's 4 

## commitment to start that process. 5 

## So to the extent that becomes a request 6 

## for a negotiated rule, obviously we fully support 7 

## that effort. If you are going to request that, we 8 

## would provide the associated stuff that goes along 9 

## with that, assuming that ASRAC also agrees and 10 

## there's a general support from both sides. 11 

## In the cases where ASRAC hasn't agreed, 12 

## typically it's been because there's not a general 13 

## support from multiple sides from multiple angles at 14 

## the table. Do you want to say something, because 15 

## it's really your program? 16 

## MR. CYMBALSKY: Not really -- 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm just speaking for you. 18 

## MR. CYMBALSKY: This is John from DOE. 19 

## But what I will say regarding the circulators, my 20 

## recollection was that that effort was going to be 21 

## held outside the bounds of negotiated rulemaking, but 22 

## more of a consensus among the manufacturers and theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## stakeholders. That was my recollection. 2 

## However, if you want to take a different 3 

## path through ASRAC in the formal negotiation, of 4 

## course DOE supports that sort of behavior. 5 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I concur 6 

## with your recollection. However, I think we're 7 

## finding that pursuing this without DOE's assistance 8 

## could lead to inefficiencies and be more difficult 9 

## than maybe we originally thought. So it would again 10 

## probably be better and more efficient if we could get 11 

## DOE's assistance. 12 

## MR. CYMBALSKY: I mean, and so by 13 

## assistance, there's, you know, we can have our 14 

## consultants help out on technical expertise outside 15 

## of the formal negotiation, where FACA rules come into 16 

## play and DOE is at the table. So either way, but 17 

## that's up to you guys to decide. We support either 18 

## path. 19 

## MR. FERSTROM: Thank you. 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. So I'm just going 21 

## to -- does anybody else want to say anything in 22 

## closing?Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. GAYDON: Yeah. Peter Gaydon with the 2 

## Hydraulic Institute. You know, I echo the sentiments 3 

## from everyone. Thank you. I think it was a good 4 

## meeting and a good process. One final request is 5 

## that we can have access to the slide deck from today. 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: It will be in the docket, 7 

## that same docket where you can find the TSD. So 8 

## we'll connect after, and I'll show you. 9 

## (Off mic comments.) 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: We usually put it in there 11 

## tonight or tomorrow. 12 

## FEMALE PARTICIPANT: It's already up. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Oh, it's already up. 14 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: It's already in there. 15 

## MR. GAYDON: Thank you. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, good. 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I just want to close by 18 

## saying thank you all for participating today. I know 19 

## there were a couple of sticky issues in the morning, 20 

## especially with regards to the test procedure and 21 

## definitions, that you guys are going to take back and 22 

## look in. As you discuss some of those, if you wantCommercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## to have more discussions with the Department about 2 

## that, let me know. We'd welcome such opportunity. 3 

## You know, we have procedures in place for 4 

## doing that stuff. So I just wanted to close with 5 

## this, is how to submit written comments. We look 6 

## forward to getting all of your written comments and 7 

## any other suggestions you may have. So safe travels 8 

## home. 9 

## (Whereupon, at 3:46 p.m., the afternoon 10 

## meeting was adjourned.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 85 **A able**  4:6,8 39:10 76:19 80:15 **absence** 68:1 **absolutely** 42:13 53:18,18,20 **access** 4:7 83:5 **account** 25:3 ,6 26:7 26:9 32:16 33:16 33:22 44:18 45:5 45:7,14,16 **accuracy** 61:17 62:21 63:5 ,21 **accurate** 20:8 61:22 **acknowledge** 67:19 **acquisition** 76:17 **actual** 10:1 39:15 44:18 50:14 52:15 54:10,12,16 62:10 62:11 **add** 60:6 79:4 **addition** 15:22 25:18 49:15 71:10 **additional** 8:17 22:2 56:9,11 76:18 **address** 4:7 14:12 73:16 77:19 **addressed** 73:2 **adequate** 40:10 **adjourned** 84:10 **adjustments** 34:5 34:17 46:2 **Admittedly** 40:5 **adopted** 71:5 ,7 **advantage** 74:15 **advocate's** 51:15 **advocates** 74:3 **AEDMs** 62:10 **AEO** 29:14 32:7 37:3 **affect** 20:6 23:8 34:21 35:18 42:19 **affiliation** 6:3 **afraid** 58:3 **afternoon** 4:11 8:8 9:3 ,15 84:9 **afternoon's** 9:8 **agenda** 8:8 75:1 ,11 **agreed** 51:16 75:5 81:11 **agreement** 56:13 **agrees** 81:9 **agriculture** 31:21 31:22 **ahead** 63:21 69:10 **aid** 66:18 **Al** 6:18 40:12,13 52:4 75:18 **Al's** 51:10 **Albert** 2:7 **Alex** 2:20 7:22 **aligns** 51:6 **Alison** 3:5 7:12 37:10,19 **Alliance** 5:9 **allocate** 28:18 **allow** 62:13 **alternative** 71:10 **alternatives** 49:22 **America** 2:22 **analyses** 8:14 49:16 **analysis** 8:11 ,13 ,13 8:14 10:12,14,21 11:4,19,22 14:9 16:4,10,21 17:1 ,7 19:20,21 22:5 ,13 22:16 24:7,11 ,18 26:3 ,8,11 ,18 29:10,13 31:7,8,9 32:13 33:14 36:22 41:16 43:10 44:4 44:14,21 45:19 46:18 49:14,18,18 49:19,20,21 66:9 66:12 70:17 **analytical** 14:8 **analyze** 35:22 43:20 **analyzed** 17:11 23:10 47:6 **analyzing** 17:22 25:1 **Anderson** 2:17 8:4 8:4 **angles** 81:13 **Aniruddh** 2:12 35:2 **annual** 25:10 30:5 31:17 32:16 34:1 46:10 **annually** 57:10 **answer** 66:11 80:19 **answers** 50:20 51:1 **anybody** 4:5 8:17 34:21 82:21 **apiece** 77:2 **apologies** 4:3 5:17 **Appearances** 2:1 **Appliance** 2:9 **Appliances** 7:4 **applicability** 9:12 10:1 **applicable** 57:6 67:7 **application** 25:12

28:10 40:21 54:20 **applications** 35:8 38:3 **applied** 23:17 24:5 35:6 52:14 80:11 **apply** 23:18 **approach** 17:14 20:10 29:4 61:15 61:17 71:9 **approaches** 71:10 **approve** 63:4 **approved** 63:4 **approximately** 30:1 **April** 1:12 **area** 44:16 **areas** 42:17 **argued** 74:11 **Armstrong** 2:5 ,11 4:20,22 5:14,19 7:2,10,10 9:1 ,2 14:2,14 50:3 ,4,5 50:22 51:12,18 52:2,8 53:22 56:16 58:1 ,13 ,16 58:19,22 59:5 60:12 61:13 64:18 65:7 66:2,11 ,20 67:2,4 68:4,17,20 69:6,14 70:14 72:12,21 73:3 74:6,11 80:19,22 81:17 82:20 83:6 83:10,13 ,17 **Ashley** 2:5 7:10 8:22 11:8 12:1 ,8 14:15 50:4,18 52:7,22 54:5 57:17 64:2 72:17 **asked** 62:9 67:12 **asking** 39:15 **asks** 65:3 66:8 **aspects** 55:13 68:8 **ASRAC** 10:6 77:18 81:9,11 82:3 **assess** 10:22 46:18 **assessment** 15:10 **asset** 30:9 **assigned** 27:18,20 **assigning** 26:5 **assistance** 74:15 77:16 82:7,11 ,13 **associated** 20:21 27:5 79:7 81:8 **associations** 12:15 **assume** 26:3 34:1 36:9,19 69:21

**assumed** 26:10 33:19 **assumes** 25:7 **assuming** 29:2 81:9 **assumption** 34:7 61:10 **assumptions** 14:9 47:15 **assure** 40:10 **astray** 78:17 **ATR** 3:7 **attempt** 48:7 **attention** 64:15 ,17 67:19 80:3 **Automation** 2:8 **availability** 16:15 **available** 13:21 15:12 17:16 31:5 34:17 40:19 42:8 42:22 43:1 49:7 60:11 63:20 64:20 65:5 ,10 74:16 **Avenue** 1:8 **average** 19:4,11 20:12 29:22 30:7 30:20 31:2 33:15 34:8 48:20 **aware** 40:8 **Awareness** 2:9 7:5 **awful** 79:17 **B back**  4:6 8:22 9:17 15:15 20:4 22:9 44:20 61:2 62:7 65:11 69:1 78:9 78:14 83:21 **bandwidth** 74:2 78:22 81:1 **Barbour** 2:18 6:14 6:14 **bare** 14:19 26:4 52:17,17,18 **bargain** 67:20 **base** 18:1 ,15 19:10 21:10,22 23:18,19 27:13 28:14 29:11 30:15 ,22 32:21 34:22 36:6,7,14 47:18 48:11 73:17 **based** 17:15 ,19,21 20:15 23:8 25:11 26:5 30:12,15 31:15 32:4 37:2,7 37:14 45:17,17 49:7

**baseline** 17:16 18:10 23:15 ,16 24:3 44:1 ,4 **basically** 19:6 20:10 21:21 23:3 ,6,12 24:8 25:7,18 26:1 26:3 ,9,18 27:3 ,13 28:8 29:2,7,10 30:4 31:6 32:6,20 34:7,12 36:21 39:14 40:2 43:12 59:8 **basis** 74:19 **basket** 68:2 **baton** 50:2 **beginning** 14:3 **behalf** 75:19 **behavior** 82:4 **believe** 8:7 35:21 60:5 72:11 **believes** 10:9 **Beloit** 2:22 6:6 **beneficial** 76:19 **benefit** 76:2 **BEP** 25:4,6,9,15 44:15 45:2,6,17 45:18 **Berkeley** 3:5 7:13 **best** 28:13 78:1 **Betsy** 7:8 **better** 47:16 74:7,17 80:15 82:10 **Beyond** 12:10 **binding** 61:21 **binned** 24:22 **bins** 25:2,2 **bit** 18:19 41:9 49:8 50:18 58:8 59:3 **blank** 54:22 59:9 **board** 60:19 **Bob** 6:14 **Boesenberg** 2:20 7:22,22 **bonds** 30:12 **Boteler** 2:21 6:12,12 33:8,8,12 68:12 68:12,19 69:3 72:4 79:9,10 **bottom** 14:4 17:17 48:9 **bound** 22:2,11 48:3 **bounds** 81:21 **box** 54:6 **break** 8:21 **Brent** 2:11 7:2Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 86 **brief** 17:12 **briefly** 12:4 19:17 **bring** 67:18 **brings** 15:3 16:9 **broadly** 60:17 **broke** 13:10 **broken** 14:17 **Brookman** 2:3 4:3 5:1 ,12,16 6:1 ,7 7:19 8:5 11:6 37:18 39:3 ,22 40:12 41:5 42:11 43:3 ,6 44:12 46:15 50:4 51:8 51:13 52:1 ,3 ,21 53:16,19,21 54:17 55:2,5 ,11 56:5 ,8 57:16 58:5 ,21 60:3 ,22 64:1 65:2 66:7,14 67:3 ,21 68:11 69:15 70:2 71:12 72:2,10 73:7,11 75:18 78:3 79:9 80:8,17 83:14,16 **brought** 56:19 78:6 **Building** 1:7 **Bureau** 23:12 **burned** 42:6 **business** 21:10 46:22 49:4 64:7 **buy** 54:7 **C C**  4:1 11:17 18:7,8 44:10 50:12 **CA** 3:6 **calculate** 23:15 25:20 32:18 58:12 62:7 **calculates** 58:11 **calculation** 62:4 **calculations** 28:3 ,7 **calculator** 58:10,15 58:20 59:3 61:2,5 61:15 62:18,20 63:2,9,10,11 65:4 65:22 66:1 ,18 78:13 **calculators** 61:11 61:16 62:4 64:4 **California** 6:9,10,11 51:5 71:4 **call** 14:4 18:18 62:10 **called** 43:11 74:4 **capabilities** 79:1

**capacity** 47:2 **capital** 30:7,9 49:13 **capture** 80:15 **captured** 45:19 **capturing** 41:18 **care** 69:17 **carried** 37:1 **carve-out** 68:10 **case** 18:1 ,15 19:10 21:9,10,12,14,22 23:18,20,20 27:14 27:19 28:14,17 29:11 ,11 30:15 31:1 32:9,10,12 32:21 ,21 33:2,18 34:22 36:6,7,7,14 36:15 43:14 47:18 47:19 48:11 54:8 57:8 **cases** 32:12 49:8 81:11 **cash** 47:9 **category** 13:11 14:18 15:6 24:2 **caucus** 52:4 **cause** 38:22 **caused** 5:18 **caveats** 17:2 62:20 64:22 **cavitation** 38:6 **CCMS** 57:5 **Census** 23:12 **cert** 61:20 **certain** 59:1 60:18 **certainly** 34:19 36:3 43:7 57:21 60:7 72:22 73:15 76:5 **certification** 8:16 56:17 57:5 ,12 59:12,20 60:10,14 63:6 **certs** 63:4 **CFR** 14:6 **Chaffee** 2:19 8:1 ,1 **chair** 2:3 4:3 5:1 ,12 5:16 6:1 ,6,7 7:19 8:5 11:6 37:18 39:3 ,22 40:12 41:5 42:11 43:3 ,6 44:12 46:15 50:4 51:8,13 52:1 ,3 ,21 53:16,19,21 54:17 55:2,5 ,11 56:5 ,8 57:16 58:5 ,21 60:3 ,22 64:1 65:2 66:7,14 67:3 ,21

68:11 69:15 70:2 71:12 72:2,10 73:7,11 75:18 78:3 79:9 80:8,17 83:14,16 **chairman** 6:13 **chance** 5:5 **change** 11:18 29:8 29:10 35:12,21 36:11 44:18 48:9 48:10,11 50:10 **changes** 17:9 23:5 27:22 35:18 38:13 39:4 42:20 44:17 **channel** 24:4 28:16 **channels** 23:7,9 24:1 **Chapter** 18:5 37:13 **characteristics** 27:11 35:11 **characterize** 12:13 12:19 23:7 69:7 **characterized** 27:6 **characterizing** 24:13 **charge** 22:8 **chart's** 44:8 **chime** 51:1 70:15 **choosing** 25:8 **chosen** 31:1 **Chris** 3:4 5:12,14 46:13 ,15 **Christopher** 46:16 **circulator** 70:4 80:14 **circulators** 73:19 75:10 76:7 77:13 78:19 79:7,20 80:7 81:19 **CL** 65:22 **clarification** 53:13 54:1 **clarifications** 9:16 72:14 **clarified** 71:14 **clarify** 60:12 73:7 **clarifying** 5:2 **class** 30:2 43:13 ,17 44:10 46:7 **classes** 12:10 13:8 14:17 30:1 ,19 31:5 32:4 43:16 50:8 **classification** 70:7 **clean** 69:22 **clear** 65:21

**clearance** 42:18 **clearances** 15:20 42:17 **Clearinghouse** 23:14 **clearly** 74:21 **clock** 71:1 **close** 13:13 21:4 54:4 75:8 83:17 84:4 **closely** 64:3 **closer** 74:18 **closing** 8:15 ,15 ,18 8:18 72:11 73:4 73:12 82:22 **Code** 14:6 **collect** 60:13 ,17 70:7 **collected** 24:21 **collecting** 78:8 **collective** 63:9 77:14 **collectively** 77:18 77:22 **combination** 27:4 43:12 **combined** 21:4 55:15 **come** 10:5 20:22 33:15 39:18,20 61:13 70:20 75:10 76:19 78:6 82:15 **comes** 11:16 13:8 **coming** 61:2 73:6 77:10 **commence** 4:10 **commenced** 10:4 **commencing** 5:4 **comment** 22:21 34:19 36:3 40:5 41:15 42:10 49:9 56:10 60:3 65:16 66:15 72:3 79:10 **comments** 7:21 15:12 43:8 50:14 50:15 51:10 52:6 56:9 67:13 68:5 73:1 ,9 79:21 83:9 84:5 ,6 **commerce** 57:7,8 **commercial** 1:2 31:18,19 65:1 **commercial-indus ...**  71:7 77:10 **commit** 76:14 **commitment** 81:4

**committee** 6:13 10:6 50:10 66:17 66:21 70:10 **common** 53:4 **commonly** 17:10 18:12 **communicate** 64:9 64:11 ,14,16 **communication** 74:18 **companies** 48:18 **company** 2:12,17 6:11 ,13 23:10 **comparable** 49:6 **compares** 33:1 **complex** 18:19 **compliance** 47:4 57:9 **compliant** 11:5 ,13 **comply** 57:2 **components** 15:20 **concentrate** 77:2,4 **concerned** 78:6 **concerns** 50:16 78:5 **concluded** 73:17 **conclusion** 49:7 77:10 **concur** 82:5 **condensate** 38:9 **conditions** 25:14 **conduct** 10:21 44:3 47:14 **conducted** 10:12 **confidential** 18:2 20:16 **configuration** 14:19 **connect** 83:8 **consensus** 81:22 **conservation** 5:11 10:15 **conservative** 4:13 22:14,14 29:3 **consider** 10:19 71:11 **consideration** 10:8 **considered** 17:4 22:1 ,11 24:10 47:20 **considering** 10:20 71:8 **consistent** 11:19 29:4 43:16 54:19 56:13 60:4 71:6 80:6 **constant** 14:22 15:8Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 87 36:13 **constraints** 47:2 **construction** 31:22 **consultants** 64:3 82:14 **consultants'** 77:15 **consumer** 22:13 23:8 26:20 46:6 55:10 **consumer's** 26:19 **consumption** 24:9 44:19 **contact** 4:5 **content** 4:17 47:5 **context** 78:18 **contexts** 62:10 **continue** 73:21 76:14 **contractor** 74:15 **control** 26:9 68:16 **controls** 14:20,21 52:19 68:21 69:13 **convene** 66:17 **conversation** 4:9 **conversations** 79:21 **conversion** 19:18,18 20:1 ,2,3 ,9,22 21:20 22:4,10 28:17 ,18 48:7 **convert** 30:5 37:5 **cooperation** 75:22 **core** 42:7 **Corporation** 2:21 **Correct** 68:4 **correlation** 39:20 **corresponding** 10:21 18:7 44:10 **corresponds** 45:1 **cost** 8:12 19:5 ,6 20:12,21 ,22 22:3 22:4,7,12 23:10 24:11 26:18,20,20 27:2 29:2 30:7 31:3 33:2,3 ,3 ,6,17 33:18 37:21 38:15 39:10 46:12 48:1 48:5 49:12,13 **costs** 19:4,7,18,18 20:1 ,2,3 ,9 21:20 22:10 28:17 ,19 29:8 33:19,22 35:4,6 39:8 **Council** 5:11 7:7 **Counsel's** 7:9 **country** 76:1 **couple** 13:13 21:4 29:6 83:19

**coupled** 54:4 **course** 60:9 82:4 **courtesy** 7:20 **cover** 47:5 72:20,22 **coverage** 9:11 12:7 48:19 68:22 69:2 **covered** 19:19 48:17 48:18,21 49:3 ,5 49:10 53:11 72:19 **covering** 23:20 **crafted** 64:21 **create** 5:20 **creates** 14:21 **criteria** 10:22 16:13 27:19 **crosses** 72:6 **cumulative** 33:1 ,3 **current** 12:20 17:15 **curve** 44:17 71:22 **curves** 25:22 45:14 45:15 **customer** 27:18 29:3 ,4 30:21 **customers** 16:15 30:21 38:22 **cycle** 8:12 24:11 26:17 ,20 37:4,5 37:11 **Cymbalsky** 2:4 7:11 7:11 81:16,18 82:12 **D D**  4:1 **damage** 38:6 40:11 **Damodaran** 30:10 **Dan** 6:5 23:2 24:6 28:15 ,17 47:22 **Danfoss** 2:10 **Daniel** 2:22 3:2 7:14 11:6,7 **data** 12:17 14:8 18:3 20:15 23:12 24:20,21 ,22 26:1 27:15 ,16 30:10,16 38:11 39:15 41:4 49:7 56:20 57:1 58:10 63:3 ,15 ,18 67:15 70:7 76:10 76:17 ,18 78:8 **database** 57:20 59:12,21 **databases** 28:11 **date** 57:9 **day** 8:19 33:9 **DC** 1:9

**dear** 64:21 **debt** 30:8,9 **decide** 82:17 **deck** 83:5 **decline** 62:12 **declined** 62:9 **decrease** 38:19 **decreased** 39:21 **decreases** 40:6 **dedicated** 67:11 **default** 26:5 **Defense** 7:7 **define** 12:10 18:8 **defined** 55:21 68:21 **definition** 13:10 68:6,9 69:2 70:6 76:10,11 **definitions** 9:10,10 9:21 12:9 68:13 68:22 83:21 **Delaney** 2:22 6:5 ,5 **delay** 4:4 5:18 **delighted** 77:11 80:10 **Department** 1:1 ,6 2:1 10:7 57:2,15 66:18 72:6 73:14 75:21 84:1 **dependent** 50:12 **depending** 30:2 52:19 69:19 **depends** 59:16 66:22 **depth** 75:13 **described** 47:22 **description** 8:15 70:5 **design** 15:1 ,22 17:3 30:3 **designation** 15:4,5 **detail** 11:1 ,11 12:3 12:11 16:6 18:4 18:21 19:19 29:17 75:4 **detailed** 11:4 16:17 **details** 34:16 **deterioration** 40:11 **determine** 17:8 18:8 20:9 23:8 24:8 32:14 33:5 **determined** 18:2 19:2 20:12 26:1 28:15 30:8 **determines** 25:19 **determining** 62:21 **develop** 12:7 62:15 64:4 **developing** 63:10 **development** 61:17 **diagram** 28:2 **diameter** 53:7,9,14 53:17 54:10,12,15 54:16 55:1 **Diego** 6:10 **differ** 37:15 **difference** 23:19 25:4 32:20 **different** 4:21 ,22 5:1 ,3 ,3 13:20 14:2 24:1 27:16 28:11 28:21 34:3 45:12 45:22 47:21 52:16 68:8 82:2 **differentiating** 68:3 **differently** 30:12 36:4 50:18 **difficult** 39:6 64:11 82:8 **diligence** 65:8 **direct** 23:10 47:2 **direction** 60:5 **directly** 14:11 38:8 67:7 **disaggregate** 32:3 **discount** 27:9 28:6 30:4 33:4 37:6 **discounting** 37:8 **discuss** 15:9 58:19 78:21 83:22 **discussed** 9:5 10:3 12:3 ,8,9,18 13:3 ,9 15:2 16:19 18:7 24:19 25:10 28:15 29:12,16 31:11 36:11 53:2,11 68:1 **discussing** 28:18 **discussion** 9:21 10:1 36:19 47:1 61:14 70:12 75:13 79:14 **discussions** 84:1 **disproportionately** 26:15 **distributed** 25:16 31:14 **distributing** 57:6 **distribution** 17:14 20:17 23:7 24:1 27:14 28:16 30:15 36:13 45:4 57:8 **distributions** 12:19 25:11 27:7,10

**distributor** 53:8 54:6 **distributors** 53:3 ,12 54:18 **divided** 24:14 **docket** 14:10 83:6,7 **document** 13:18 14:7 **documented** 22:17 **DOE** 2:4,5 7:8,10 7:11 10:9,19,21 13:8 15:10 18:22 19:2,4 21:14 48:16,20 49:1 ,5 52:11 55:2 59:20 59:20 62:3 ,17 63:1 ,4,4,8 64:3 67:10 71:10 76:12 77:9,15 78:20 81:18 82:4,16 **DOE's** 61:15 ,16 74:15 77:12 78:22 81:3 82:7,11 **DOE-approved** 62:3 **doing** 24:8 41:13 65:8 76:16 77:4 79:1 84:4 **DOJ** 8:3 **domestic** 48:16 **dominate** 74:22 **dotting** 72:7 **double** 79:22 80:1 **Doug** 2:3 80:22 **Doug's** 39:14 **downstream** 49:16 **drive** 16:1 38:1 42:15 **driver** 59:10 **drives** 69:12 **due** 65:8 **duty** 24:18,20 25:8 45:13 **E E**  2:22 4:1 ,1 **earlier** 13:9 47:22 56:19 60:4 68:1 ,6 **early** 75:3 **easy** 64:6 76:3 78:17 **echo** 51:14 83:2 **Eckman** 5:7,10,10 51:14,14,21 73:12 73:13 74:9,12Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 88 **ECMs** 79:19 **economic** 32:17 **economics** 26:19 **Edison** 6:10 **EE** 75:20 **effect** 47:3 **effects** 80:13 ,15 **efficiencies** 24:15 34:22 36:7 37:20 38:1 42:16 **efficiency** 5:9 11:18 12:19,22 13:5 15:11 16:1 17:8 17:10,13 ,16,18 18:6,8,9,10,11 ,11 18:14,16,17 19:1 19:3 ,11 ,13 ,16 20:14,19,19 21:9 21:15 24:10 25:22 27:12,13 ,14,17,19 28:22 29:9 30:14 31:2 33:20 36:10 36:13 38:7,12,18 39:9,21 40:6 41:1 41:10 42:6 43:13 43:17 44:9 45:15 66:10 71:5 **efficiency-related** 71:15 **efficient** 27:1 77:14 82:10 **effort** 75:22 77:14 77:21 81:7,20 **either** 9:9 39:7 66:5 82:16,17 **Electric** 2:17 6:11 **electricity** 28:6 29:14 **electronically** 57:4 **element** 73:15 **elements** 57:11 60:15 73:18 **eliminated** 61:7 **email** 14:12 **emissions** 49:18,18 **empathy** 74:1 **employment** 47:2 49:19,20 **encourage** 9:17 **endorsement** 51:15 **ends** 15:4 **energy** 1:1 ,6 2:1 4:13 5:9 6:13 8:11 10:15 15:11 16:12 23:1 24:7,9,17 26:13 27:1 28:5 29:12,13 31:17

32:14,16,21 ,22 33:2 34:1 ,13 ,22 37:2,4,5 ,6 39:1 44:18,21 55:18 56:2 66:18 72:6 75:21 **EnergyStar** 71:4 **enforcement** 63:17 **engagement** 75:15 **engineering** 8:11 17:1 ,4,6,7 **engineers** 40:8 **enormous** 79:6 **entertain** 62:17 **entire** 5:4 **entities** 24:4 **entrance** 42:14 **equal** 11:13 **equation** 24:11 **equations** 11:15 **equipment** 12:10 13:8 14:17 26:21 27:1 ,2 28:14 30:1 30:2,19 31:5 32:4 33:18 35:7 43:13 43:16,17 44:10 46:7 48:17 ,22 49:11 50:8 52:12 **equity** 30:7,8 **erosion** 38:6 **especially** 38:9 80:12 83:20 **essentially** 35:14 52:20 **establish** 9:11 17:7 65:5 68:10 **established** 17:13 17:20 19:7 **estimate** 33:10 **estimates** 31:15 38:14 **estimating** 31:8 **etcetera** 62:2,2,16 62:16 **EU** 44:1 **European** 13:1 **evaluate** 21:12 27:7 **evaluated** 21:14 46:20 **evaluation** 35:4 **everybody** 77:9 **everyone's** 50:6 **exact** 60:8 **exactly** 31:11 46:3 76:16 **example** 30:18

54:14 56:1 **examples** 54:4 **Excel** 65:4 **Excel-based** 57:3 **excellent** 72:9 **exception** 43:19 53:10 **excess** 14:19 **exclusively** 49:2 **execution** 63:18 **existing** 12:21 38:3 **expect** 54:19 57:21 61:12 68:6 **expected** 29:8 **expecting** 50:19 **expenses** 23:10,21 30:5 37:8 **experience** 57:20 **experiencing** 42:14 **expertise** 82:14 **exploration** 16:5 **explored** 16:3 **extent** 26:4,15 27:8 81:5 **extra** 77:6 **F F**  2:7 **FACA** 82:15 **faced** 77:1 **fact** 11:16 53:11 69:17 **factors** 10:18 34:21 **fail** 28:19 **failing** 20:20 **fair** 66:2 **fairly** 31:12 **fall** 48:19 69:1 **falling** 68:22 **familiar** 63:14 **fans** 80:11 **far** 78:17 **fast** 66:20 75:16 **faster** 29:21 **favorably** 10:7 **fear** 77:19 **feasibility** 16:14 **feature** 68:3 **federal** 14:6 30:13 47:3 **feedback** 9:15 78:20 **feel** 39:16 64:8 74:6 **feeling** 67:2 **felt** 39:12 72:19 **FEMALE** 83:12 **Fernstrom** 3:6

**Ferstrom** 6:8,8 37:10,17 40:4,20 41:20 51:4 55:5 ,6 56:6 67:22 69:9 71:3 ,18 77:8 79:4 80:9 82:5 ,19 **field** 25:6 **final** 13:7 15:4 18:6 19:9 32:8 46:14 47:1 80:17 83:4 **finally** 13:4 21:8 76:11 79:12 **financing** 30:8,10 **find** 19:15 20:9 76:11 83:7 **finding** 82:7 **finish** 44:6 **first** 6:2 11:4,9 13:7 13:10 21:18 51:2 65:8 67:15 **five** 24:1 41:12 47:19 **flat** 21:18 25:14 48:1 ,3 **floor** 31:18 73:4 **flow** 25:2,9 28:10 42:8 47:10 **flows** 42:2 **fluid** 2:11 7:2 42:5 **focusing** 35:10 **folks** 74:22 **follow** 51:22 70:3 **following** 8:12 16:12 72:7 **forecast** 32:7 37:3 **forget** 41:11 **formal** 82:3 ,15 **formally** 70:20 **formations** 70:19 **Forrestal** 1:7 **forth** 65:11 70:16 78:14 **forthwith** 75:11 **forward** 12:5 14:16 37:1 52:9 67:17 68:5 73:14 77:12 84:6 **found** 16:7,8 18:22 19:11 48:20 49:5 56:12 61:6,6 70:4 **four** 16:12 18:19 25:13 31:14 32:2 45:9,9 **frame** 65:6 78:7 **frame-mounted** 13:13 21:4

**framework** 15:16 **free** 39:16 **frequency** 38:15 **frequent** 37:22 **friction** 15:21 **friend** 64:21 **friends** 58:2 **front** 20:7 **frontiers** 70:9 **fuel** 37:3 ,5 **full** 27:7 34:15 37:3 37:5 ,11 54:14 **full-time** 74:10 **fully** 50:15 68:6 70:13 81:6 **further** 49:14 **future** 29:15 40:14 57:22 **G G**  4:1 **gains** 16:7,7 **gallons** 71:19 **Gary** 3:6 6:8 37:10 40:4 41:6 51:4 55:5 ,6 56:6 59:12 67:22 69:9 70:15 71:3 ,13 77:8 78:6 80:9 82:5 **Gary's** 51:14 **Gas** 2:17 6:10,11 **Gaydon** 3:1 6:22,22 13:16,16,20 14:13 66:15 ,22 83:1 ,1 83:15 **general** 7:8 24:11 38:17 48:3 61:15 61:16 67:6 71:7 81:10,12 **generalized** 25:13 **generally** 25:8 45:2 45:5 ,9 57:14 68:17 **getting** 11:8 37:20 68:5 69:10 75:4 84:6 **give** 10:13 41:6 54:3 54:21 76:15 **given** 19:10,14,15 19:16 **Glad** 4:15 **Glenn** 3:7 **global** 43:21 ,22 **go** 9:3 ,17 10:2,22 12:4,11 13:5Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 89 14:16 18:4 23:1 26:17 27:12 28:7 36:20 47:3 59:18 59:21 63:7,20 65:11 70:16 75:13 78:9 79:8 80:22 **goes** 16:5 ,17 81:8 **going** 4:9,10,16 5:19 5:20 8:6,22 9:3 10:13 ,22 11:2,3 ,4 11:21 12:1 14:22 15:6,6,7 19:17 22:8 23:1 38:8,20 39:1 41:9,10,12 41:13 44:20 46:12 50:17 51:18 53:16 56:17 58:1 59:5 60:4 61:10,13 63:1 ,22 64:14 65:4 66:4,5 68:13 68:14 69:21 70:8 72:12 73:4,8 77:13 79:17 80:3 80:19,22 81:7,20 82:20 83:21 **good** 4:11 ,11 9:2 29:16 40:1 41:3 41:21 42:1 43:6 51:17 56:1 ,4,15 58:1 ,3 60:9 72:15 75:22 80:10 83:3 83:4,16 **Goodman** 2:12 35:2 **Government** 47:8 **graph** 32:5 **graphic** 19:12 **great** 8:5 9:15 51:12 51:22 66:20 73:3 74:1 **GRIM** 47:9,16,17 **group** 9:5 10:3 ,12 11:20 12:3 ,18 15:17 ,18 16:19 17:20,21 18:13 ,21 20:11 21:7 23:4 24:19 25:11 29:5 29:17 31:11 34:3 36:12,21 39:8 41:8 43:15 ,20 46:1 51:6 52:11 53:1 61:3 ,6 64:4 67:8 68:18 70:17 70:18 71:15 72:5 72:8 77:18 78:1 79:5 **groupings** 21:3 **groups** 12:15 15:18 52:4 56:14 **growth** 36:9 **guarantee** 65:11 **guess** 39:6 52:17 65:15 **guidance** 37:8 **guys** 22:19 34:18 64:19 79:14 82:17 83:21 **H Haan**  66:8 **half** 74:3 **hand** 50:2 **Handzel** 2:14 6:16 6:16 41:6 42:1 50:17 51:8,9 52:21 ,22 53:18,20 54:3 ,21 55:4 56:12 57:17 58:3 58:7,14,18 60:22 61:1 64:2 70:3 71:13 72:17 ,18,22 73:10 **hanging** 5:17 **happen** 38:13 51:19 51:21 75:14 **happens** 27:12 36:15 42:15 **hard** 10:5 39:16 44:8 63:10 **Harrison** 3:7 8:3 ,3 **haste** 73:21 74:13 **head** 37:13 42:8 **health** 16:16 **hear** 39:8 **heard** 51:9 58:8 **heavy** 10:4 **held** 67:19 81:21 **hello** 5:7 46:16 **help** 49:14 64:11 ,16 74:16 82:14 **helpful** 38:16 59:10 **hi** 6:15 ,17,19,21 9:2 20:15 30:17 40:13 61:3 65:10 70:13 77:17 **high** 10:13 12:1 18:21 20:10 23:2 32:9,11 **higher** 22:9 36:20 37:20 38:1 ,7 39:9 40:19 42:16,22 48:4 66:10 **highest** 19:8 22:12 **highlight** 11:2

**highlighted** 48:12 **highlighting** 11:16 **highly** 40:13 **historical** 8:13 12:16 **home** 50:5 84:8 **hope** 75:11 **hoped** 73:15 74:17 **hoping** 75:2 **horsepower** 19:8,9 79:15 80:12 **hot** 59:5 **hour** 71:19 **hours** 24:12 25:10 27:9 29:19 33:10 **HP** 59:11 **Hu** 2:8 **Huber** 2:7 6:18,18 40:12,13 ,13 65:18 65:21 75:19 **hydraulic** 3:1 6:22 13:17 15:22 17:1 17:4 19:22 24:13 31:13 49:13 66:16 70:5 75:20 83:2 **Hydraulics** 55:20

**I I's**  72:7 **identical** 12:9 **identified** 15:10,14 48:16 79:5 **identify** 12:21 13:4 46:21 49:1 **identifying** 12:14 **ignored** 29:12 **II** 79:12,13 **immediately** 6:4 **impact** 8:14 19:19 21:17 29:10 31:7 31:8 32:13 33:14 35:13 36:2 41:2 43:10 46:17,21 47:9 49:18,19,21 **impacted** 26:15 37:22 38:9 **impacting** 9:22 **impacts** 16:14,16 32:17 38:2 46:19 47:13 49:5 **impeller** 34:15 35:17 42:15 ,17 46:2 53:5 ,7,9,14 53:17 54:10,11 ,12 54:16 55:1 **impellers** 34:6,8,10

**implement** 21:13 38:13 39:16 43:9 **implemented** 34:5 46:1 54:2 **implements** 14:5 **important** 54:1 55:21 72:8,19 80:13 **improved** 15:11 ,19 15:19,22 19:2 **improvement** 16:1 41:10 **improving** 13:4 **impugn** 75:12 **include** 23:13 49:17 52:16 68:15 69:2 73:9 **included** 29:9 **includes** 56:18,22 71:20 **inclusion** 10:8 **incorporate** 37:3 38:22 **incorporated** 22:16 **increase** 19:3 20:4 38:18,21 48:14 **increased** 20:2 22:6 26:22 38:14 39:20 66:10 **increases** 33:3 34:11 39:10 40:7 42:21 **increasing** 28:22 40:22 **incremental** 17:8 18:1 23:16,18,19 24:3 **Independence** 1:8 **independent** 70:17 **index** 50:11 **indicate** 54:15 **indicator** 31:17 **indirect** 49:20 **individuals** 4:18 5:5 **industrial** 1:2 31:21 38:4 69:22 **industry** 12:14,15 20:12 21:1 ,6 22:1 46:20 47:10,12,14 48:15 56:3 76:1 76:21 **inefficiencies** 82:8 **information** 23:13 38:12 39:15 55:8 57:14 59:9,17,22 60:13 ,16,18,19

61:22 67:11 **initial** 16:5 **initiate** 70:16 **initiated** 81:2 **inlet** 42:17 **inline** 13:14 21:5 **input** 15:12 17:19 18:3 25:20 31:7 44:21 58:12 59:10 **inputs** 24:17 28:2,8 33:14 34:21 47:15 59:8 **INPV** 47:12,17,18 48:10 **inside** 78:11 ,20 **installation** 29:7 33:19 **installations** 27:3 28:9 40:14 **installed** 33:3 ,17 35:6 **instance** 62:19 **instances** 38:1 **Institute** 3:1 7:1 13:17 31:13 55:20 66:16 70:5 75:20 83:2 **integral** 69:12 **integrated** 68:2 **integrity** 75:12 **intent** 60:7 68:18 70:16 **interaction** 78:15 **interest** 56:2 **interested** 9:19 17:21 32:12 70:12 70:20 79:2 **interpretations** 61:8 **interviews** 15:13 20:16 47:14 **introduce** 5:5 **introductions** 4:19 6:2 8:2 **intuitive** 26:12 **intuitively** 42:3 **investments** 20:5 22:10 48:8 **Investor-Owned** 6:9 **involved** 64:14 74:7 77:9 **involves** 47:1 **IOU's** 3:6 **IOUs** 51:5 **issue** 57:19 58:17 65:12 67:10Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 90 **issued** 30:13 **issues** 47:6,16 60:16 66:6 72:8 83:19 **items** 73:2,8 **J J**  2:19 **jacket** 61:14 **Jason** 3:3 7:16 **Jiangang** 2:8 **Joanna** 2:9 7:4 60:3 **job** 74:10 **John** 2:4 7:11 79:20 81:18 **join** 4:9 **joining** 4:5 9:9,17 44:13 65:3 **July** 61:11 **jump** 58:17 **K keep**  12:1 **key** 12:22 68:2 72:19 73:2 76:21 **kickoff** 67:16 **kind** 13:9 16:10 18:16 21:10 30:3 50:17 52:4 54:1 55:20 58:8 63:1 67:8 68:10 78:5 78:10 **kits** 54:5 **know** 25:4 36:19 37:11 ,12 38:15 39:17 41:1 ,8 43:19 44:7 53:7 53:12 54:4,5 ,9,11 54:13 ,22 56:14 57:3 58:10 59:17 61:1 ,2,7,12,19,22 62:6,21 ,22 63:14 65:15 66:16 67:2 67:10 70:5 ,8,10 70:11 ,22 72:13 ,18 74:13 ,14,20 75:2 76:13 78:22 79:14 81:3 82:13 83:2 83:18 84:2,3 **knowing** 79:3 **known** 18:12 19:22 47:9 53:5 **Kohl** 7:8,8 **L L.P**  2:12 **lab** 63:17 **label** 52:12

**labeling** 52:9,13 55:15 56:9,12 **Laboratory** 2:6,16 3:5 7:18 **Labs** 7:13 **lack** 16:7 **laggards** 75:6 **Lai** 3:3 7:16,16 **language** 60:8 64:21 67:5 ,6 **large** 49:6 **Lastly** 56:17 **Lau** 3:4 5:14 46:15 46:16,17 **Laughter** 41:22 65:20 67:1 **launch** 4:16 **Lawrence** 3:5 7:12 **LCC** 22:13 ,16 26:11 28:2 29:11 30:18 31:16 34:2 36:8 49:17 **LCCs** 33:16 **lead** 20:2 54:8 82:8 **leaders** 52:4 **learn** 68:7 **left** 6:4 8:6 13:12 19:12 28:3 32:5 **legally** 61:21 **let's** 6:1 ,2 58:7,19 61:16 73:11 **letters** 77:4 **level** 10:13 11:18 12:2 17:10 18:9,9 18:10,11 ,22 20:10 20:19,19 23:2 27:13 ,18,21 28:1 28:20,22 31:2 33:7,20 38:12 39:9,13 41:17 43:18 44:9 45:21 46:8 **levels** 10:5 ,11 ,14 17:8,13 ,15 ,19,20 18:7 20:14 21:1 24:10 27:12 29:9 43:12,13 45:20 47:20 50:7,9 51:3 78:12 **life** 8:12 24:10 26:17 26:19,21 **lifetime** 27:9 28:6 29:16,18,19,20,22 29:22 **lifting** 10:4 **limitations** 74:2

**limited** 49:8 **link** 14:11 **list** 72:13 ,18 **listed** 15:14 16:13 23:11 49:17 **literature** 15:12 **little** 30:11 41:9 49:8 50:18 58:8 59:2 61:15 77:6 77:20,20 **load** 14:22 15:1 ,8,8 24:15 25:13 ,14,15 27:9 44:22 45:7,9 45:11 59:11 ,13 ,16 **loads** 25:16 45:12 **local** 30:12 **locally** 54:7 **located** 49:3 **locked** 79:16 **long** 26:22 **look** 9:18 13:11 28:21 34:18 35:10 35:15 43:9,11 57:13 59:13 60:2 68:4 79:18 83:22 84:5 **looked** 21:3 ,5 ,18 26:16 35:15 43:15 **looking** 11:10,19 20:7 21:11 26:18 34:14 46:5 65:22 68:13 **looks** 49:21 **loop** 78:20 **losses** 15:22 25:21 26:2,5 ,9 42:18 **lot** 9:15 10:4 13:2 24:19 27:6 55:17 61:7 78:8 79:18 **Louis** 5:6,8 55:11 56:5 ,19 58:5 ,6,9 58:21 78:3 ,4 **low** 31:3 32:9,12 **lower** 18:13 22:1 48:3 **lowest** 19:8 **M main**  24:17 45:13 **maintained** 36:13 **maintenance** 29:7 33:21 35:3 ,5 ,14 35:21 37:21 39:8 **major** 47:11 **majority** 52:5 **MALE** 4:21 42:9 46:10 80:21 **manager** 59:21 **manifest** 42:21 **manual** 59:20 **manually** 58:12 59:19 **manufacture** 16:14 53:12 **manufacturer** 8:14 15:13 17:9 18:3 18:22 19:3 ,4,19 27:15 31:8 46:17 47:21 49:2 61:18 62:14 **manufacturer's** 22:7 23:17 **manufacturers** 12:14 20:3 26:2 30:16 31:14 46:19 46:21 ,22 48:5 ,17 48:21 49:6,10,12 61:3 62:6 64:12 65:5 73:21 74:14 81:22 **manufacturing** 2:12 12:13 31:20 **Mark** 2:10,14,19 6:16 8:1 41:5 ,5 ,21 51:8 52:21 56:10 57:16 60:22 64:1 70:2 72:18 73:8 **market** 8:10 11:22 12:6,17,20 17:14 17:15 ,17,18 18:17 18:18 21:18 24:2 32:4 49:11 **market-wide** 18:2 **marketing** 52:14 **markets** 8:11 38:8 **markup** 18:3 19:1 19:13 21:21 22:9 **markups** 20:2,4,6 22:2,6 23:1 ,6,9,16 23:16,18 24:3 ,5 28:4,16 47:22 **Mary** 2:17 8:4 **materials** 52:14 **matter** 7:19 **Mauer** 2:9 7:4,4 60:6,21 **max** 17:17 18:10 **mean** 39:6 40:18 57:17,18 64:2,10 65:7 66:2 76:20 81:2 82:12 **means** 12:14 17:14

22:6 23:13 36:16 **measurements** 71:22 **mechanical** 15:21 29:19 **meet** 16:12 20:14 27:22 36:17 78:7 **meeting** 1:1 ,3 2:1 4:14 5:4 76:7 83:4 84:10 **meetings** 15:17 74:20 **meets** 27:21 **Meg** 2:15 7:6 **members** 61:3 **membership** 64:13 70:13 **mention** 69:16 **mentioned** 12:1 13:18 30:14 37:21 **Menzer** 2:10 **merged** 28:12 **methods** 12:4 17:13 **metric** 11:12 47:12 71:19 **metrics** 67:14 69:20 **MG-1** 6:6 **MIA** 22:16 46:13 46:18 47:1 ,8 49:15 **mic** 7:21 8:2 22:21 42:10 83:9 **mind's** 54:1 **minimally** 11:5 **minimum** 36:18 41:17 44:1 76:15 **mining** 31:21 **minor** 23:5 **mirrors** 16:18 **miscommunication** 77:20 **misunderstanding** 71:17 **mix** 38:10 **mode** 76:17 **model** 19:7,13 20:13 30:9 31:12 32:17 47:9,10,11 **modeled** 19:4 20:17 **models** 19:12 20:20 57:6 62:4,4 **modified** 21:20 22:4 **moment** 24:16 **monetization** 49:19 **month** 76:8Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 91 **monthly** 76:15 **months** 76:12 **morning** 4:15 ,18 5:6,13 6:3 9:6,16 10:3 12:10 50:19 51:10 58:9 83:19 **morning's** 9:18 **motor** 2:21 6:12 14:20,21 24:14 26:2,5 52:17 ,19 54:7 68:15 ,21 69:4,12 71:20 79:12,12 80:16 **motor-related** 71:16 **motors** 26:8 69:11 80:5 ,5 ,10,11 **move** 8:18 12:5 13:5 22:17 43:18 67:17 74:13 ,16 75:7,11 75:16 **moved** 19:20 **moves** 43:17 **moving** 8:10 52:8 72:10 73:14 77:12 **MPC** 19:11 22:7 **MSP** 17:10 18:15 19:10,15 21:9,15 23:19,21 28:15 **MSPs** 18:1 24:5 28:3 **Mulaney** 65:3 **multiple** 74:20 81:13 ,13 **multiplier** 37:4,11 **multiply** 20:20 **municipal** 30:6,11 32:1 **N N**  4:1 **name** 6:3 52:14 53:15 ,19 54:9,13 54:21 **name's** 46:16 **national** 2:6,16 3:5 7:13 ,18 31:7 32:13 ,14,15 ,22 33:6,14 43:10 46:6 **Natural** 7:6 **Navigant** 3:2,3 ,4 5:15 7:15 ,16 11:8 **near** 65:14 **necessarily** 41:18 65:15 67:6 70:10 80:1

**necessary** 55:8 **NEEA** 78:4 **need** 5:21 25:20,21 38:15 ,20,20 58:18 59:17 ,18 65:16 67:15 68:9 70:19 77:13 80:2 **needed** 8:21 **needing** 34:4 **needs** 78:8 **Needy** 66:2 **negative** 48:13 **negotiated** 10:5 ,11 39:13 50:10 65:17 81:6,21 **negotiation** 82:3 ,15 **negotiations** 78:19 **negotiators** 52:5 **NEMA** 2:20 6:13 7:22 68:12 69:3 ,6 **NES** 32:20 **net** 31:3 32:15 33:1 46:6 47:12 **never** 22:19 **new** 4:7,20 5:20 22:2 70:9 **NGOs** 75:21 **NIA** 37:6 **nice** 72:5 **Nidec** 2:21 6:12 33:8 79:22 **nine** 25:2,2,2 **NOPR** 4:15 8:14 9:20 10:8 15:19 31:5 34:17 49:16 66:13 **NOPRs** 77:1 **Northwest** 2:6,16 5:9,10 7:18 **note** 67:4 **noted** 53:7 **notes** 24:22 53:8 **notice** 4:12 14:4,5 47:7 49:9 **noting** 52:3 **NPSH** 38:21 40:19 42:22 **NRDC** 2:15 **number** 20:20 48:4 49:10 56:21 **numbers** 21:6 48:10 51:16 **O O**  4:1 **obviously** 12:22 50:12 57:19 61:2 63:9 73:6 81:6 **occasions** 53:6 **occur** 39:11 **offerings** 48:21 49:11 **Office** 7:9 **officially** 53:8 **offline** 14:12 64:19 **offset** 25:6 39:1 **Oh** 13:14 33:12 58:22 80:21 83:13 **okay** 5:16 6:1 ,5 14:13 22:19,22 24:7 26:17 31:6 32:13 36:5 37:17 38:11 40:2,20 41:11 ,19,20 43:5 44:20 45:19 46:12 50:5 ,22 52:1 ,8 53:21 ,22 55:11 ,11 56:9,16,16 58:14 58:15 ,16 60:21 64:6 65:1 66:2,7 66:14 67:3 71:12 72:21 73:3 ,11 79:9 80:8,17 83:16 **OMB** 37:8 **once** 41:13 57:2 64:20 **one-sixth** 79:15 **ones** 64:5 66:1 72:19 74:21 78:12 **online** 30:10 44:13 63:20 65:3 66:8 **onus** 61:18 62:13 ,14 **open** 70:18 73:4 **opening** 51:10 **operate** 44:15 **operated** 45:2 **operating** 24:12 27:9 29:19 30:5 33:1 45:18 **operation** 25:10 40:10 41:3 **opportunity** 8:17 40:15 55:16 79:8 84:2 **opposed** 80:1 **option** 16:22 **options** 13:4 15:11 **order** 10:21 25:3 **ordered** 44:16 **organization** 6:3 **originally** 15:14 82:9 **outcome** 56:3 **Outlook** 31:18 **output** 24:14 42:13 47:11 69:20 **outputs** 63:3 **outset** 51:2 **outside** 48:19 64:13 81:21 82:14 **over-** 25:15 **overall** 17:3 24:5 **overlap** 79:18 **overshooting** 41:18 **oversize** 25:15 **oversized** 44:16 **overview** 8:9 10:2 10:13 ,17 17:12 **P P**  4:1 **p.m** 1:11 4:2 84:9 **Pacific** 2:6,16,17 7:17 **page** 14:11 **pages** 14:8 77:2 **paired** 29:13 **paragraphs** 56:22 **parallels** 13:2 **part** 9:22 20:15 39:12 56:22 60:13 67:8 **PARTICIPANT** 4:21 42:9 46:10 80:21 83:12 **participated** 61:4 **participating** 83:18 **particular** 55:22 67:7 **parties** 56:1 70:19 **parts** 54:6 **party** 63:17 **pass** 27:19 **passed** 10:6 16:22 29:2 60:20 **path** 79:11 82:3 ,18 **Patterson** 2:7 6:18 **Paul** 2:13 6:20 37:18,19 42:11 ,12 43:3 69:15 **pay** 64:17 66:10 **payback** 8:12 26:21 66:9,12 **paying** 30:22 64:15 80:2 **PEI** 11:12,12 65:4 **PEI/CL** 54:15 58:11

**penetration** 34:10 **people** 25:7 39:12 45:5 70:11 **percent** 25:9,9 30:21 31:3 34:8 37:7,7 45:3 ,3 ,10 45:10,10,11 46:9 46:9 48:10,11 ,14 48:14,14,20 **percentage** 34:9 **percentages** 25:17 **percentile** 18:12,14 **performance** 27:16 35:19 38:2,19 39:21 40:6 42:22 45:17 46:2 71:20 71:21 **period** 8:12 22:5 26:21 31:9 32:22 46:12 **person** 9:9 **perspective** 26:19 63:12,12 **Peter** 3:1 6:22 13:16 66:14 83:1 **PFCs** 79:18 **PG&E** 6:9 8:4 **phase** 16:22 **pick** 8:6 **place** 84:3 **plan** 67:17 **planning** 68:15 **plate** 53:15 ,19 54:9 54:14 **plates** 52:15 54:22 **platform** 43:22 **play** 82:16 **players** 76:21 **please** 41:11 **plural** 8:14 **plus** 52:17 **point** 23:5 25:8 41:7 45:13 50:2 53:13 59:11 ,19 77:11 79:5 **points** 24:18,20 45:10 59:14,17 **pool** 67:12 68:8 69:7 69:18 70:6,7 71:5 71:16 73:14 77:12 79:20 80:6,14 81:2 **poor** 42:21 **population** 27:8 28:13 31:22 33:17Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 92 **portion** 4:14,15 47:1 **portions** 49:4 **position** 51:15 **positive** 31:2 46:8 48:14 **possible** 20:1 39:9 40:14,15 ,16,17,19 74:17 75:8,16 **potential** 21:17 33:7 34:12 43:12 47:2 48:13 79:6 **potentially** 34:20 72:14 **power** 5:10 16:2 24:12,13 ,14 25:2 25:2,19,20 28:10 34:14 42:4 **PR-25** 18:12 **practicability** 16:14 **preamble** 13:21 14:3 **precedent** 56:4 **preclude** 71:8 **Prem** 2:16 **prematurely** 38:5 **prepared** 50:20 53:8 **prescribed** 71:21 **presence** 68:1 **present** 32:15 33:1 46:6 47:12,17 **presentation** 9:8,19 11:1 **presented** 12:16 15:17 21:2,7 23:4 **presenting** 46:17 **pressure** 40:10 41:3 **pretty** 9:4 29:16 35:16 55:22 73:17 78:17 **previous** 61:4 **previously** 30:14 **price** 18:17 23:17 26:22 28:6,14 66:10 **prices** 17:9 23:8 28:22 29:14 37:2 48:6 **pricing** 20:6,8 21:17 21:19,19 22:3 ,3 22:15 30:9 48:1 ,4 **primarily** 24:21 **primary** 47:7 **probably** 8:20 39:13 40:6 65:12 69:4,10 82:10

**problem** 42:14 70:1 74:5 **problems** 78:13 **procedure** 62:1 ,11 83:20 **procedures** 4:15 9:12 26:6 63:19 67:14 84:3 **proceed** 77:19 78:16 **proceeding** 52:7 67:7 **process** 66:19 67:11 67:16 68:7 71:1 73:16 77:9 81:4 83:4 **produce** 22:7 **produced** 48:17 ,18 49:2,2,4 **producing** 25:20 49:10 **product** 16:15 22:8 38:10 40:18 43:22 48:20 49:11 55:9 63:16 70:4,6 76:9 76:10 80:4 **product-specific** 60:17 **production** 19:3 ,5 **productive** 77:15 **products** 35:6 38:5 38:9 69:11 ,12 79:19 **profile** 24:15 45:1 ,7 **profiles** 25:13 27:10 45:11 **profitable** 76:4 **profits** 23:11 **program** 59:13 ,21 60:1 81:15 **programs** 12:22 55:17 67:13 ,14 **project** 2:9 7:5 32:2 36:8 **projected** 31:16 32:14 **projection** 32:6 **projections** 32:8 **promulgating** 10:19 **proposal** 10:16 **propose** 52:12 60:13 **proposed** 4:12 8:16 10:10 20:14 28:1 31:1 33:6 44:2 46:8 48:12 49:3

49:22 50:7,15 52:13 **proposing** 13:8 **provide** 62:3 ,9 63:13 81:8 **provided** 20:15 22:12 30:16 **providing** 53:9 62:18 **proxy** 39:4 **public** 1:1 49:7 60:14,18 62:18 65:13 **publicly** 15:12 60:11 63:19 65:9 **pull** 5:21 59:22 **pump** 6:18 11:5 ,13 14:19,20,20,22 15:1 19:6,10,14 20:13 23:7 24:14 25:4,6,8,19,21 26:10 27:2,3 ,4,4,6 27:16,18,20,22 28:9 29:22 35:11 35:12 40:9 41:9 44:22 45:1 ,14 46:19 52:15 ,17,17 52:18,20 53:4 54:6 55:21 64:12 65:5 66:10 68:14 68:20,21 69:18,18 71:5 ,15 ,16,20 80:14,14 **pump's** 19:15 **pumps** 1:2 2:7 4:13 13:12 19:5 20:18 20:21 24:9 26:3 ,4 28:19 29:1 ,19,21 32:18 34:6,9,15 35:7 36:16 44:2 44:16 45:2,6 48:18,19 49:3 ,5 50:8 53:3 ,6 59:18 67:12 68:8 69:8 69:11 ,12 70:1 ,6,7 71:7 73:14 77:11 77:12 79:20 80:7 80:11 81:2 **purchase** 26:22 30:6 **purpose** 12:6 16:10 17:7 46:18,20 67:12 68:8 **purposes** 68:22 **pursue** 73:21 **pursuing** 76:6,6 82:7 **put** 24:10 53:16 54:5 ,7,10,11 56:20 58:10 60:8 63:3 72:12 83:10 **putting** 53:14 59:9 **Q QC**  65:8 **QC'd** 63:12 **quads** 46:5 **qualified** 46:21 **qualitative** 47:16 **quantify** 16:6 39:3 39:11 47:13 **quest** 37:20 38:7 **question** 27:21 35:3 42:3 44:13 ,13 58:8,21 65:16 66:8 71:13 80:20 81:1 **questions** 23:3 46:14 50:19,20,21 61:7 65:2 72:13 **quick** 40:5 54:8 **quickly** 9:4 74:16 **quite** 33:11 69:21 **R R**  2:18 4:1 **raise** 48:6 50:16 **range** 47:20 48:4,13 **ranges** 17:16 80:12 **rate** 27:9 28:6 33:4 34:11 37:6 **rates** 30:4 **rating** 63:4 **ratings** 61:17,18 62:7,22 63:5 ,6,22 67:14 **re-reviewing** 9:14 **read** 44:8 **ready** 4:10 22:22 77:3 **really** 33:2,18 36:12 39:16 40:22 44:8 50:21 59:10 65:16 68:8,19 69:4 71:6 72:7 78:7,22 79:16 80:2 81:15 81:16 **reap** 39:2 **reasons** 16:17 19:21 35:20 **rebate** 59:15 **rebuild** 53:4

**received** 26:1 **recollect** 78:9 **recollection** 81:20 82:1 ,6 **recommend** 74:14 **recommendation** 52:10 **recommendations** 67:8 **recommended** 51:5 51:6 **reconfirm** 53:2 **record** 5:4,21 **recover** 20:3 21:20 22:4 26:22 48:7 **recovery** 22:3 48:1 48:5 **red** 57:13 **redesign** 17:1 ,5 20:13 ,16,18,21 49:13 **redesigned** 27:20 28:19 29:1 35:17 **redesigning** 41:8 **redesigns** 19:22 **redo** 77:22 **reduce** 34:12 42:18 **reduced** 15:20,20 16:2 **reduction** 15:21 **refer** 79:12 **reference** 9:4 32:9 32:10 44:8 **refine** 47:15 49:14 **refinements** 34:20 **reflect** 10:10 28:13 **reflected** 9:22 10:14 **reflects** 12:2 **Reg** 14:4 **Regal** 2:22 6:6 **regarding** 81:19 **regards** 83:20 **regs** 62:13 ,16 **regular** 74:19 **regulate** 80:4 **regulating** 68:14 **regulation** 13:3 49:22 50:1 69:4 69:19 79:13 ,22 80:1 ,16 **regulations** 14:5 ,6 47:3 71:5 **regulatory** 12:21 47:8 49:21 67:13 78:7Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 93 **related** 29:18 **relationship** 18:16 18:18,20,22 19:10 21:9 40:8 54:18 **relative** 45:12 **relatively** 79:6 **relevant** 12:17 52:6 **reliability** 35:18 42:19 **relied** 24:20 **remain** 44:4 **remarks** 8:15 ,18 72:11 73:4,12 80:17 **remember** 39:7 60:7 **reminder** 11:10 **reminding** 41:21 **repair** 29:8 33:21 35:3 ,5 ,13 ,21 37:21 38:14 39:7 **replacements** 40:16 **report** 57:1 ,12 61:20 63:6 **reports** 60:10 **represent** 21:15 25:13 47:10 **representative** 25:1 25:22 **represented** 17:18 52:5 **representing** 6:8,14 6:15 ,17,19,21 **represents** 17:17 18:13 ,16 **request** 34:19 49:9 52:11 54:8 67:10 70:21 77:18 81:5 81:7 83:4 **requested** 9:16 **require** 20:18 70:9 **required** 10:19 38:21 **requirements** 10:18 52:10,13 55:16 56:10,13 ,18 57:5 **requiring** 42:22 **Reserve** 30:13 **Resources** 7:7 **rest** 8:8 **result** 19:22 35:12 38:6 **results** 12:5 14:9 21:2 22:15 30:19 31:4 43:10 45:21 47:17 ,21 48:6,13 66:12

**resume** 4:4 **retrofit** 38:3 40:21 **retrofits** 40:16 **retrofitted** 43:1 **return** 38:9 **revenue** 48:6 **revenues** 18:2 22:2 22:11 **review** 43:7 **reviewed** 47:6 72:17 **reviewing** 50:21 **revised** 65:4 68:6 **revolves** 55:7 **rework** 53:4 **RFI** 81:3 **right** 4:17 10:20 14:16 15:3 19:13 21:8 30:20 32:7 42:5 ,8 55:3 58:3 58:17 59:3 70:11 76:16 78:13 79:15 **road** 78:17 **Rob** 2:21 6:12 33:8 65:3 68:11 ,12 72:2 79:9 **Robert** 2:18 **Rockwell** 2:8 **roll** 36:16 **rolled** 36:17 **Ron** 8:3 **room** 1:7 74:22 **Ross** 2:11 7:2,2 **roughly** 48:20 **round** 80:5 **row** 47:18 48:9 **Roy** 2:12 35:2,2 36:5 **RS** 23:13 **RSV** 13:14 43:19 **rule** 10:10 34:13 49:3 70:16 81:6 **rulemaking** 12:8 31:10 55:22 69:8 73:16 75:9 76:19 81:21 **rulemakings** 4:13 36:9 56:4 74:4,8 80:3 **rules** 10:20 37:15 55:3 82:15 **run** 29:21 32:11 34:10 59:22 **running** 15:20 **runs** 59:13 **Ruzicka** 2:13 6:20 6:20 37:19,19 38:17 39:19 42:12 42:12 69:16 **S S**  4:1 **safe** 84:7 **safety** 16:16 **sale** 14:18 **sale-configured** 13:14 **sales** 23:13 ,14 **sample** 28:9,12 **San** 6:10 **Sarah** 2:6 7:17 **satisfactory** 76:12 **satisfy** 54:8 **save** 16:11 26:14 73:18 **saving** 56:2 **savings** 30:20 31:2 32:15 33:2,6 34:13 37:4 39:2 55:18 79:6 **saw** 10:15 45:22 60:2 **saying** 61:12,22 64:11 65:18 83:18 **says** 62:21 **scattered** 17:19 **scenario** 22:1 ,11 ,12 36:16 48:1 ,2,4,5 **scenarios** 21:15 22:15 32:11 **scope** 9:11 12:7,8 19:5 48:19 67:9 67:14 **screen** 4:8 16:11 56:21 **screened** 16:18 35:17 **screening** 8:10 11:22 16:4,9,21 **SCs** 79:18 **second** 22:3 46:20 47:18 56:6 77:11 80:5 **section** 6:6 9:18 18:5 23:9 **sector** 28:10 31:16 31:19,21 32:6 37:14 **sectors** 30:6 31:15 32:3 **see** 4:11 ,16 8:7 10:10 11:17 15:5 16:20 21:3 28:3

30:20 31:1 39:17 46:7 47:20 48:13 50:11 ,17 64:20 72:6 74:2 75:2 77:17 80:6,10,13 81:3 **seeing** 67:16 **sell** 53:3 ,6 54:5 **selling** 17:9 23:17 **send** 14:11 61:20 62:7 **sense** 78:19 **sent** 10:7 **sentiments** 83:2 **separate** 14:7 26:11 66:1 **series** 32:16 **serve** 34:12 **service** 29:18 32:18 **set** 11:8 **setting** 78:12 **settled** 36:21 **seven** 10:18,22 37:6 46:9 **share** 49:11 65:10 **shares** 24:3 32:5 **sheet** 56:15 57:18 59:9 60:8 73:18 **shipments** 8:13 12:17 18:3 24:21 30:16 31:6,8,12 31:13 ,16,20 32:2 32:7,8,17 **shipped** 25:5 52:19 **short** 39:15 **shorter** 29:20,21 **show** 12:12 48:10 50:8 59:11 83:8 **shown** 21:10 51:3 **shows** 47:18 70:15 70:22 **side** 15:3 42:13 73:22 74:1 **sides** 81:10,13 **sign** 4:6 **significant** 20:1 40:11 41:2 **significantly** 37:15 **signing** 61:21 **silent** 22:20 **similar** 63:20 69:21 69:21 78:11 **similarly** 29:21 **simple** 31:12 64:6 **simulation** 62:4 **simulations** 62:11

**Simultaneous** 51:20 **sit** 61:13 **site** 37:5 ,11 **sites** 38:4 **sitting** 64:21 **situation** 40:9 43:2 **size** 19:6,11 ,16 **sizes** 20:13 **sizing** 25:7 44:22 45:1 ,5 ,17 **slide** 4:7 8:7 11:9 12:11 13:17 38:10 44:21 45:8 50:9 51:3 83:5 **slides** 8:9 9:4 44:22 47:5 **slightly** 42:18 45:22 **small** 46:22 48:16 48:21 49:1 ,6,10 53:10 79:12,12 80:5 ,5 ,12 **smaller** 42:16,17 **sold** 53:8 55:7,7,9 **sooner** 65:19 78:1 **sorry** 13:15 33:12 43:21 70:15 **sort** 28:12 38:12 39:4 75:10 78:15 82:4 **sounds** 16:10 59:8 **sources** 23:11 **Southern** 6:10,11 **space** 31:18 **speaking** 51:20 68:18 79:6 81:17 **specific** 19:21 35:20 52:6 62:6 66:12 **specifically** 36:1 50:9 56:20 64:19 67:12 **specified** 72:1 **specifiers** 40:7 **speed** 15:1 ,7 16:1 28:10 **spent** 45:12 **spot** 54:22 **Spritz** 44:12 **stage** 13:10 49:16 **stakeholders** 15:13 82:1 **stamping** 54:9 **stand** 74:19 **stand-alone** 14:7 **standard** 11:13 21:13 26:14 27:21Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 94 28:20 33:7 35:13 36:10,17,18 43:11 44:2,3 45:20,21 46:19 47:4,14,19 48:12 50:7,9,15 **standards** 1:3 2:9 4:14 7:5 9:13 10:1 10:9,15 11:11 21:8,12,14,17 23:20 27:19 28:16 29:11 30:22 32:21 36:7,15 47:19 55:14,17 57:2,9 65:17 **standby** 16:2 **Starr** 5:8,8 42:2 55:12 58:6,6 59:2 59:7 78:3 ,4,4 **start** 4:9 26:13 30:14 52:20 75:3 79:18 81:4 **started** 15:15 29:17 31:12 71:1 ,2 79:11 **starting** 67:11 ,16 76:9 **state** 30:12 51:2 **statement** 8:18 38:18 51:10 61:21 61:21 **states** 71:4 **status** 8:16 **statutory** 10:18 **stays** 22:8 **step** 16:4 27:17 **steps** 18:19 **sticky** 83:19 **stock** 32:18 **stop** 23:2 **straight** 4:17 **straightforward** 61:9 64:8 **strainer** 68:2 **stretch** 50:6 **structure** 21:19,22 22:4 78:11 **stuff** 81:8 84:4 **subgroup** 26:11 49:17 **subgroups** 46:22 **submit** 57:4,7 63:5 63:6 84:5 **submitting** 57:15 **substantial** 56:21 **successful** 70:13 **succinctly** 47:13 **suction** 13:13 ,13 21:4 38:2,19 39:21 40:5 ,9 41:2 42:15 ,22 54:4 68:14 **sufficient** 36:22 **suggest** 36:4 **suggestions** 84:7 **summary** 23:22 28:8 43:6 44:7 **summed** 21:5 **summing** 26:20 **supply** 54:13 ,16 **support** 13:18 51:3 51:7 55:20 81:6 81:10,13 82:17 **supportive** 50:15 **supports** 82:4 **supposed** 58:12 **sure** 14:2 20:8 36:12 52:22 55:8 63:11 73:20 74:12 75:17 80:4 **surprise** 33:13 **survey** 20:16 **SW** 1:8 **swimming** 77:12 **sympathy** 75:1 **synchronization** 75:9 **system** 38:21 44:17 58:11 71:21 ,21 80:13 ,15 **systems** 39:1 **T T's**  72:6 **table** 12:12 50:13 61:14 64:5 70:11 73:22 74:1 76:22 81:14 82:16 **TACO** 2:18,19 6:15 6:15 8:1 **take** 8:20 11:21 14:1 33:16 34:18 44:17 61:14 73:11 74:14 77:1 82:2 83:21 **taken** 33:22 34:2 71:9,22 **takes** 17:6 26:22 45:7 **talk** 9:4 11:3 ,4 19:17 24:16 32:10 56:17 58:22 61:16 **talked** 24:6 34:3 41:7

**talking** 14:16 28:4 36:2 58:9 75:3 **Tax** 23:14 **taxes** 23:14 **tech** 11:22 12:7 18:10 **technical** 13:18 55:13 82:14 **technological** 16:13 **technologies** 16:11 **technology** 2:11 7:3 8:10 13:4 15:10 15:11 16:21 79:16 **tell** 4:4 14:12 **template** 57:4 **templates** 63:15 ,18 **tend** 38:10 **terawatt** 33:9 **term** 17:9 55:7 56:15 57:18 60:8 65:14 73:18 **terms** 15:5 55:14 56:3 63:2 64:22 65:8 **test** 4:14 9:12 26:6 62:1 ,11 63:3 ,15 63:16,18 67:14 83:20 **tested** 62:1 **testing** 62:12 69:17 **text** 14:4 57:13 **thank** 5:2 6:7 11:8 14:15 37:17 39:22 41:20 43:3 51:8 51:12,13 52:1 ,2 56:5 ,16 60:21 64:2,17 67:21 73:6,13 75:20 77:7,9 82:19 83:3 83:15 ,18 **thanks** 5:16 8:5 56:8 **theory** 65:17 **they'd** 69:7 75:13 **thing** 6:2 30:3 33:21 34:2 51:17 52:18 59:7 60:1 67:5 70:14 71:18 77:5 **things** 9:7 27:8 29:6 34:12 43:11 52:16 55:13 65:1 74:16 74:18,21 77:22 **think** 5:12 39:12,14 39:17 40:7 41:1 ,7 45:9,18 50:2 51:9 51:15 52:3 53:22

55:6,16,19,22 56:3 60:6,19 62:17 63:8 64:15 64:18 65:6,7,9 68:17 73:1 75:12 75:22 76:1 ,2,3 ,18 77:13 78:21 79:5 79:13 ,17 80:2,12 80:14 81:2 82:6 83:3 **thinking** 40:21 63:2 75:6 **third** 63:17 **Thomas** 66:8 **thought** 44:6 71:14 82:9 **thoughts** 56:11 **three** 15:5 37:7 46:9 69:2 79:15 **three-step** 20:10 **throttling** 26:10 34:15 **tied** 41:17 **tighter** 42:19 **time** 28:21 34:11 36:11 45:12 50:16 54:8 65:6 71:1 72:15 73:12 75:4 77:1 ,6 **times** 24:12 **today** 8:19 11:1 47:6 52:6 69:14 72:20 76:22 83:5 83:18 **today's** 18:17,18 21:22 48:12 49:3 49:22 **tolerances** 42:19 **Tom** 5:7,10 51:14 52:4 73:12 76:5 **Tom's** 77:11 **tomorrow** 66:4 83:11 **tonight** 83:11 **tool** 47:8 62:6 **top** 17:18 23:22 37:12 **topic** 15:9 56:19 59:6 **total** 20:22 32:3 **touched** 73:17 **training** 57:21 **transcript** 4:20,21 4:22 5:2,3 **transmitted** 42:4 **transmitting** 42:7

**travels** 84:7 **treat** 69:4,6 **trends** 28:7 29:15 **trial** 43:11 45:20,21 47:19 **tried** 64:13 70:12 **trim** 46:2 53:4 54:11 **trimmed** 34:6,8,9 **true** 42:13 **try** 20:4 22:9 28:13 39:19,20 41:12 76:14,17 **trying** 24:8 38:2 64:10 77:3 78:11 **TSD** 12:16,19 14:6 15:19 16:5 ,17 17:3 18:5 22:17 31:6 32:11 34:18 37:13 47:7 66:13 83:7 **TSL** 44:11 46:7 **TSL-1** 43:17 **TSL-2** 43:18 46:5 ,8 48:11 **TSLs** 44:5 ,7 **turn** 8:22 46:13 **turned** 74:9 **twice** 76:8 **two** 5:5 19:14 21:14 43:18 47:21 65:12 66:1 77:1 **two-three** 71:1 **tying** 32:6 **type** 13:12 17:17 38:9 57:14 68:9 **types** 65:1 **typically** 19:18 43:11 53:3 81:12 **U U.S**  1:1 ,6 57:7 **Uh-huh** 55:4 **ultimate** 55:10 **ultimately** 10:8,14 **uncertainty** 21:16 21:16 **under-sized** 25:16 **understand** 35:14 40:20 47:16 58:14 64:7,10 66:3 73:22 74:5 75:13 **understanding** 20:8 **understands** 63:8 **uniform** 45:4 54:20Commercial and Industrial Pumps Standard Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 95 **Union** 13:1 **unique** 20:17 ,20 **unit** 24:9 **units** 25:1 ,22 **unrecognized** 79:8 **updates** 76:15 **upper** 22:11 **USDOJ** 3:7 **use** 8:11 17:10 23:1 24:7,18 25:6 26:13 28:5 29:13 32:21 ,22 34:1 ,22 37:14 40:9 44:21 62:6,13 ,19 63:13 63:17 ,21 65:1 **useful** 56:10 61:6 **user** 27:4,5 ,11 ,20 55:10 66:9 **users** 26:12 44:14 **uses** 33:4 **usual** 21:11 **usually** 83:10 **utilities** 6:9 60:9 **utility** 16:15 49:19 55:16 60:1 **V validate**  47:15 **value** 11:17 31:19 31:21 32:15 33:1 44:10 47:12 48:15 50:11 63:8 **values** 18:7,8 26:5 33:15 46:7 50:12 59:16 **variability** 45:5 **variable** 14:22 15:8 16:1 24:15 25:15 44:22 45:1 **variables** 27:5 28:6 31:17 **variation** 35:5 **variety** 25:14 **various** 50:7 **vary** 11:17 23:21 30:2 33:19 35:7 **varying** 20:13 **velocity** 42:21 **verification** 63:16 **version** 62:18 63:13 65:10 **versions** 61:4 **versus** 18:17 19:6 19:13 39:21 49:6 **VFD** 26:11 46:2 **VFDs** 34:6,10,11 **virtually** 4:17

**VL** 65:22 **volumetric** 15:21 42:18 **voluntary** 12:22 67:13 **volute** 35:17 **voted** 10:7 **VSD** 16:1 ,2 **VTS** 13:14 21:5 **Vuppuluri** 2:16 **W W**  2:14 **waiting** 50:6 **walk** 72:15 **Waltner** 2:15 7:6,6 **want** 4:19 5:7 14:1 20:7 34:18 50:16 51:2 53:2,5 58:15 59:18 62:15 64:6 65:21 67:4 71:8 72:2,14 74:12 80:6 81:14 82:2 82:21 83:17 ,22 **wanted** 58:22 67:18 69:16 79:13 84:4 **Washington** 1:9 **wasn't** 40:10,21 70:13 **waste** 44:15 **wasted** 77:21 **water** 69:22 **watering** 42:17 **watt** 71:19 **way** 51:22 64:8 82:16 **Wayne** 44:12 **we'll** 8:9,20 12:3 13:5 14:16 34:1 39:19 43:5 ,7 50:8 60:2 64:18 65:18 66:3 ,5 76:2,14,22 77:3 ,17,22 83:8 **we're** 4:4,9,10,16 8:6,22 9:14 10:13 11:3 ,4,10 12:1 14:16 19:17 20:7 21:11 24:8,13 25:1 ,12 26:4 28:22 29:1 ,6,14 37:8,15 38:2 40:22 41:8,9,10 41:12,13 ,13 ,18 42:14 44:1 45:4 45:16 46:5 50:5 50:21 56:15 ,17

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**2** 18:11 **2:24** 1:11 4:2 **2:30** 8:20 **20** 13:9 15:5 **2012** 31:13 32:4,7 **2014** 29:15 37:3 **2015** 1:12 37:9 **20585** 1:9 **24** 48:20 **25** 48:16 **25th** 18:11 ,13 ,13 **28** 46:5 **29** 1:12 **3 3,600**  15:2 **3:30-3:45** 8:21 **3:46** 84:9 **30** 48:13 **30-year** 31:9 32:22 46:12 **4 40.6**  69:17 70:1 **400** 77:2 **429** 56:22 60:13 **5 5**  18:5 ,10 **50** 45:10 **500** 59:18 **6 6E-066**  1:7 **7 7**  48:14,14 **75** 25:9 45:3 ,10 **8 8**  45:8 **85** 34:8 **9 95**  8:7

### 96 

# TRANSCRIPTION CERTIFICATE



# As a professional transcriber, I certify that the attached document(s) are, to the best of my abilities, an accurate transcription of audio recordings provided to the company, given the quality of the provided audio recording(s), and that I have no financial or other interest in the proceedings to which they pertain.

TRANSCRIBER