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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 1

REPORTER'S RECORD

VOLUME 8 OF 21 VOLUME(S)

TRIAL COURT CAUSE NO. 1376698R

COURT OF APPEALS CASE NO. 02-14-00412-CR

THE STATE OF TEXAS

VS.

THOMAS OLIVAS

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IN THE 372ND JUDICIAL

DISTRICT COURT

TARRANT COUNTY, TEXAS

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TRIAL ON MERITS CONTINUES

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On the 11th day of September, 2014, the following

proceedings came on to be heard in the above-entitled

and numbered cause before the Honorable Scott Wisch,

Presiding Judge, held in Fort Worth, Tarrant County,

Texas;

Proceedings reported by computerized machine

shorthand with assisted realtime transcription.

KAREN B. MARTINEZ, CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER

Official Court Reporter

372nd Judicial District Court

Tarrant County, Texas

 FILED IN 2nd COURT OF APPEALS FORT WORTH, TEXAS 3/27/2015 12:36:05 PM DEBRA SPISAK Clerk

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 2

APPEARANCES:

ATTORNEYS FOR THE STATE:

HONORABLE R. KEVIN ROUSSEAU

SBOT NO: 17324950

HONORABLE TAMLA S. RAY

SBOT NO: 24046687

Assistant Criminal District Attorneys

Tim Curry Criminal Justice Center

Fort Worth Texas 76196

Phone: 817-884-1400

Fax: 817-884-3333

ATTORNEYS FOR THE DEFENDANT:

HONORABLE TIM MOORE

SBOT NO: 14378300

Attorney at Law

115 West 2nd Street, Suite 202

Fort Worth, Texas 76102

Phone: 817-332-3822

Fax: 817-332-2768

- AND -

HONORABLE JOETTA L. KEENE

SBOT NO: 11165800

Attorney at Law

204 South Mesquite Street

Arlington, Texas 76010

Phone: 817-275-6611

Fax: 817-275-6621

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 3

CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX

Volume 8 of 21

TRIAL ON MERITS CONTINUES

September 11, 2014 Page Vol.

Trial on Merits Continues..................... 11 8

STATE'S WITNESSES Voir

Direct Cross Dire Vol.

Johnson, Officer Craig 12,42 26,43 -- 8

Fallentine, Shannon 45,58, -- 57,140, 8

141,147, 144,153,

155,158, 156,160,

161,167, 166,168,

169,171 171,172

Recessed for the Day.......................... 175 8

Court Reporter's Certificate.................. 176 8

ALPHABETICAL LISTING OF WITNESSES

Voir

Direct Cross Dire Vol.

Fallentine, Shannon 45,58, -- 57,140, 8

141,147, 144,153,

155,158, 156,160,

161,167, 166,168,

169,171 171,172

Johnson, Officer Craig 12,42 26,43 -- 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 4

EXHIBITS

STATE'S

NO. DESCRIPTION OFFERED ADMITTED VOL.

4 Large Diagram 57 57 8

8 Photograph 26 26 8

10 Photograph 64 65 8

11 Photograph 64 65 8

12 Photograph 64 65 8

14 Photograph 64 65 8

15 Photograph 64 65 8

16 Photograph 64 65 8

17 Photograph 64 65 8

18 Photograph 64 65 8

19 Photograph 64 65 8

20 Photograph 64 65 8

21 Photograph 64 65 8

22 Photograph 64 65 8

23 Photograph 64 65 8

24 Photograph 64 65 8

25 Photograph 64 65 8

26 Photograph 64 65 8

27 Photograph 64 65 8

28 Photograph 64 65 8

29 Photograph 64 65 8

30 Photograph 64 65 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 5

31 Photograph 64 65 8

32 Photograph 64 65 8

33 Photograph 64 65 8

34 Photograph 64 65 8

35 Photograph 64 65 8

36 Photograph 64 65 8

37 Photograph 64 65 8

38 Photograph 64 65 8

39 Photograph 64 65 8

40 Photograph 64 65 8

41 Photograph 64 65 8

42 Photograph 64 65 8

43 Photograph 64 65 8

44 Photograph 64 65 8

45 Photograph 64 65 8

46 Photograph 64 65 8

47 Photograph 64 65 8

48 Photograph 64 65 8

49 Photograph 64 65 8

50 Photograph 64 65 8

51 Photograph 64 65 8

52 Photograph 64 65 8

53 Photograph 64 65 8

54 Photograph 64 65 8

55 Photograph 64 65 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 6

56 Photograph 64 65 8

57 Photograph 64 65 8

58 Photograph 64 65 8

59 Photograph 64 65 8

60 Photograph 64 65 8

61 Photograph 64 65 8

62 Photograph 64 65 8

63 Photograph 64 65 8

64 Photograph 64 65 8

65 Photograph 64 65 8

66 Photograph 64 65 8

67 Photograph 64 65 8

68 Photograph 64 65 8

69 Photograph 64 65 8

70 Photograph 64 65 8

71 Photograph 64 65 8

72 Photograph 64 65 8

73 Photograph 64 65 8

74 Photograph 64 65 8

75 Photograph 64 65 8

76 Photograph 64 65 8

77 Photograph 64 65 8

78 Photograph 64 65 8

79 Photograph 64 65 8

80 Photograph 64 65 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 7

81 Photograph 64 65 8

82 Photograph 64 65 8

83 Photograph 64 65 8

84 Photograph 64 65 8

85 Photograph 64 65 8

86 Photograph 64 65 8

87 Photograph 64 65 8

88 Photograph 64 65 8

89 Photograph 64 65 8

90 Photograph 64 65 8

91 Photograph 64 65 8

92 Photograph 64 65 8

93 Photograph 64 65 8

94 Photograph 64 65 8

95 Photograph 64 65 8

96 Photograph 64 65 8

97 Photograph 64 65 8

98 Photograph 64 65 8

99 Photograph 64 65 8

100 Photograph 64 65 8

101 Photograph 64 65 8

102 Photograph 64 65 8

103 Photograph 64 65 8

104 Photograph 64 65 8

105 Photograph 64 65 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 8

106 Photograph 64 65 8

107 Photograph 64 65 8

108 Photograph 64 65 8

109 Photograph 64 65 8

110 Photograph 64 65 8

111 Photograph 64 65 8

112 Photograph 64 65 8

113 Photograph 64 65 8

114 Photograph 136 136 8

115 Photograph 136 136 8

116 Photograph 136 136 8

117 Photograph 136 136 8

166 Swab of Beer Can in Package 140 141 8

*166A Evidence Box 140 141 8

*166B Evidence Sack 140 141 8

167 Swab of Lighter in Package 142 143 8

*167A Evidence Box 142 143 8

*167B Evidence Sack 142 143 8

*168 Swab of Lighter Fluid Cap

in Package 144 145 8

*168A Evidence Box 144 145 8

*168B Evidence Sack 144 145 8

169 Blood Swabs in Package 148 149 8

*169A Evidence Box 148 149 8

*169B Evidence Sack 148 149 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 9

170 Swab of Lighter in Package 150 150 8

*170A Evidence Box 150 150 8

*170B Evidence Sack 150 150 8

171 Control Swabs in Package 151 151 8

*171A Evidence Box 151 151 8

*171B Evidence Sack 151 151 8

172 Swab of Red Stain in

Package 152 152 8

*172A Evidence Box 152 152 8

*172B Evidence Sack 152 152 8

*173 Swab of Blood in Package 153 155 8

*173A Evidence Box 153 155 8

*173B Evidence Sack 153 155 8

174 Swab of Blood in Package 156 157 8

*174A Evidence Box 156 157 8

*174B Evidence Sack 156 157 8

175 Swab of Blood in Package 158 159 8

*175A Evidence Box 158 159 8

*175B Evidence Sack 158 159 8

*176 Swab of Lighter in Package 160 161 8

*176A Evidence Box 160 161 8

*176B Evidence Sack 160 161 8

177 Swab of Blood in Package 162 162 8

*177A Evidence Box 162 162 8

*177B Evidence Sack 162 162 8

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 10

178 Swab of Blood in Package 163 163 8

*178A Evidence Box 163 163 8

*178B Evidence Sack 163 163 8

179 Swab of Blood in Package 164 164 8

*179A Evidence Box 164 164 8

*179B Evidence Sack 164 164 8

180 Swab of Blood in Package 165 165 8

*180A Evidence Box 165 165 8

*180B Evidence Sack 165 165 8

181 Control Swabs in Package 166 167 8

*181A Evidence Box 166 167 8

*181B Evidence Sack 166 167 8

182 Swab of Lighter Fluid Cap

in Package 168 169 8

*182A Evidence Box 168 169 8

*182B Evidence Sack 168 169 8

183 Swab of Blood in Package 170 170 8

*183A Evidence Box 170 170 8

*183B Evidence Sack 170 170 8

184 Beer Can with Packaging

in Ziploc 172 174 8

*184A Evidence Sacks with Ruler 172 174 8

201 Chart on Easel Paper 26 26 8

 

(*) Denotes an exhibit designated for the record only.

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 11

P R O C E E D I N G S

Thursday, September 11, 2014 9:40 a.m.

(OPEN COURT, DEFENDANT AND JURY PRESENT)

(Witness on the stand)

THE COURT: Good morning, members of the

jury.

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Morning.

THE COURT: Does everyone recognize what I'm

holding up, the now infamous blue card.

Did you all follow these instructions since

you left last evening until you returned today?

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes.

THE COURT: Again, we thank you. Every day

it is more important that you do so.

Who will be the State's next witness?

MS. RAY: Mr. Craig Johnson, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. State your full,

legal name for the jury and the court reporter, please.

THE WITNESS: My name is Craig Johnson.

THE COURT: I need you to face me and raise

your right hand.

(One witness sworn)

THE COURT: Are you familiar with the rules

that apply to witnesses during the course of a criminal

trial?

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 12

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I am.

THE COURT: All right. So you understand

where you may and may not be, who you may and may not

talk to, et cetera?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I do.

THE COURT: Make sure you follow those rules

until you find out there has been a final decision by

the jury, even if you're released after your own

testimony.

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: All right.

Tamla.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Judge.

HONORABLE CRAIG JOHNSON,

having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Mr. Johnson, could you, please, introduce

yourself to the jury and tell them where you work.

A. My name is Craig Johnson. I'm a retired

Grapevine police officer and I am currently a justice of

the peace in Wise County.

Q. So it'd be appropriate for me to call you Judge

Johnson, correct?

A. Yes.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 13

Q. But I won't so that I won't get judge mixed up

with Judge Wisch.

A. Yes. Thank you.

Q. Okay. So you under -- I will call you

Mr. Johnson and you're fine with that?

A. Yes, ma'am.

THE COURT: I'm not.

MS. RAY: You're not?

THE COURT: No.

MS. RAY: You want me to call him Judge,

Judge?

THE COURT: I'll -- we'll work through this.

You may call him -- you may do what your instincts tell

you. You may refer to him as Judge Johnson. And if you

say Judge Wisch -- you can add my name while this

witness is on the stand.

MS. RAY: Okay.

THE COURT: All right. Carry on.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Judge Wisch.

THE COURT: Very good.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Okay. Judge Johnson, you stated

that you used to be with the Grapevine Police

Department?

A. Yes, ma'am.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 14

Q. What role did you play with Grapevine?

A. At what time specifically?

Q. Let's start -- let's work with most recent and

then work your way back. When you left the department,

what rank were you?

A. Senior officer.

Q. And what role did you play?

A. That was very wide-ranging. From patrol officer

to field training officer to mentor to other young

officers who are out of the training program. I was a

team leader, hostage negotiation team, and that's just a

few of the ones.

Q. How long were you with Grapevine Police

Department?

A. A little over 18 and a half years.

Q. And you stated when you left you were a senior

officer?

A. Yes.

Q. And prior to being a senior officer, what would

your rank have been?

A. The rank was senior officer for a number of

years. However, the title before I went back to

strictly senior officer was detective.

Q. And when you were a detective, what area did you

work?

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 15

A. Again, that was wide-ranging. It was everything

from simple misdemeanor thefts to murder investigations.

Q. And some of the larger agencies like in Arlington

or Fort Worth, they have a dedicated homicide division.

Was it the same way in Grapevine?

A. No, ma'am. At the time Grapevine Police

Department was not big to have -- big enough to have a

dedicated homicide investigation unit.

Q. So if you were a detective, you would work,

whichever, a wide range of cases that were assigned to

you?

A. Yes.

Q. Back in March 21st, 2011, were you a senior

officer, or were you a detective then?

A. Senior officer.

Q. And were you assigned to a particular

geographical unit, or how was your assignment -- where

were your assignments?

A. Yes. I was assigned to roughly the northwest

part of the city of Grapevine.

Q. On March 21st, 2011, at about 6:49 a.m. were you

dispatched to a particular location?

A. Yes, we were.

Q. And you say "we". Who were -- who encompasses

"we"?

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 16

A. That would include myself, Sergeant Mark

Shimmick, Officer -- and Officer Charles Day.

Q. Where were y'all dispatched to?

A. That would have been 214 Brookside.

Q. And what was the relation of that call?

A. We had been requested by the Arlington Police

Department to do a welfare check on a subject that lived

at Brookside.

Q. Do you recall the name of that subject?

A. Yes, ma'am. It was Rebeca Raudry.

Q. And what is a welfare check?

A. It is to check the general well-being, the

safety, the condition, basically in a very general sense

to make sure that everything is okay and everybody is

unharmed, uninjured and not in need of immediate

assistance.

Q. Now, you stated that this request had come from

Arlington Police Department?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you make contact with anyone from Arlington

while you were on your -- en route to the Brookside

address?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Who did you make contact with?

A. A Detective Stewart.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 17

Q. And why did you make contact with Detective

Stewart?

A. Detective Stewart had requested that we contact

him so he could provide additional details about why he

was requesting a welfare check at 214 Brookside.

Q. And why was he requesting the welfare check?

A. He was requesting a welfare check because he was

investigating a homicide in Arlington, which had

occurred the previous night, and the subject that lived

at 214 Brookside had been the girlfriend of a person of

interest in that case.

Q. And who was the person of interest?

A. He identified the subject by name only of a

Thomas Olivas.

Q. And the girlfriend's name, did you have it at

that time?

A. Which one?

Q. The ex-girlfriend, did you know -- the person you

were going to go check on, did you have her name?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was Rebeca Raudry?

A. Yes.

Q. At about what time did you arrive at the address,

the Brookside address?

A. At approximately 7:15.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 18

Q. And what happened when you got there?

A. I approached the residence and immediately I saw

a woman who identified herself as Ms. Raudry just crying

hysterically. She appeared to be talking to someone on

the phone. She later said that was -- I believe it was

Detective Stewart, someone from the Arlington Police

Department. And she was hysterical. I approached her

and began to talk to her. And she was visibly shaken,

visibly scared for herself and also for her two small

children.

Q. Once you encountered her in this state, what did

you do?

A. Talked to her briefly and then myself and

Sergeant Shimmick checked the inside of her residence,

214 Brookside, at her request. We didn't find anybody

else in there other than her two children. We didn't

see any signs of any forced entry into the house.

Everything appeared to be okay, as she described it and

as we saw.

Q. Did you talk to Rebeca about why she was

concerned or why she asked that you guys come out and

check on her?

A. Yes.

Q. And she gave you a little bit background about

her relationship with Thomas Olivas?

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 19

A. She did.

Q. What, if anything, did you do with that

information?

A. We had also been requested by Detective Stewart

to let him know, once we'd arrived at Brookside and

spoke to Ms. Raudry, what we had found out or what we

had seen there. I did that and advised him of what we

saw and found.

Q. Did Detective Stewart make any other request of

you?

A. He did.

Q. What did he request?

A. He asked that we perform a welfare check at 601

Park, Apartment 208.

Q. And what was your understanding of whose

residence address was 601 -- or 601 Park, Apartment 208?

A. That had been the location and the apartment

where Mr. Olivas and Raudry lived together until

recently when they ended their relationship and she

moved to the Brookside address. She indicated she was

still in the process of moving out, still had belongings

in the apartment and still had a key to the apartment

and name was still on the lease.

Q. At some point was the decision made to go to that

apartment to check and see -- check on Mr. Olivas'

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 20

welfare?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you go about doing that?

A. Are you asking about the discussion involved in

going there, or what was your question specifically?

Q. Did -- what -- whose consent did you have to go

to the apartment?

A. Ms. Raudry's.

Q. And how did she give you or convey consent?

A. She told us that we had her permission to go into

the residence, handed us her key to the apartment and

advised us we were -- could use that to enter the

apartment.

Q. And did you do that?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. Who did you -- when you say "we," who's the "we"

that went to the apartment?

A. Myself and Sergeant Mark Shimmick and Officer

Charles Day.

MR. MOORE: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that

last name.

THE COURT: The last name, Officer Charles

Day, is that what you said?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Officer Charles

Day. Yes, sir. My apologies.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 21

Q. (BY MS. RAY) At what time did you get to the

apartment?

A. Shortly after 7:53 a.m.

Q. Now, what was the distance between the Brookside

residence and the apartment complex that you were

dispatched to?

A. Approximately a quarter of a mile, if that.

Q. So very short driving distance?

A. Yes.

Q. When you got to the apartment, what, if any,

observations did you make?

A. We saw that there didn't appear to be any

evidence of any forced entry into the apartment.

Visible damage -- it was a second-floor apartment, no

visible damage to -- that we could see from the ground

of the second-floor balcony door or the front door to

the residence. Just appeared to be a normal apartment

building for that complex and nobody around.

Q. Did you ever make entrance into the apartment?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. Did you -- how did you go about that?

A. Myself and Sergeant Shimmick and Officer Day

approached the front door. We knocked several times.

And after we did not receive any response after the

repeated attempts, we used the key to -- or I then used

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 22

the key to open the door. Opened the door, called

Mr. Olivas' name, announced our presence and did not

receive any response.

Q. What did you do next?

A. We went into the apartment, made a sweep-through

there trying to find Mr. Olivas or anybody else in the

apartment that may have been injured or in need of

assistance.

Q. Did you find anyone in the apartment?

A. We did not.

Q. Did you make any observations about the condition

of the apartment?

A. Yes. The apartment appeared to be fairly an

orderly apartment, didn't have things just laying all

over, all over the place.

Q. Did you make any observations that led you to

believe whether or not a person had -- whether or not

the apartment had been recently occupied?

A. Yes. As we went through the area that I believed

to be the master bedroom, there were some black clothes

laying on a chair in the room. And as we passed through

the master bedroom into the bathroom, there was a shower

and I pushed back the shower curtain and saw that there

was water on the shower walls and inside the shower

curtain, appeared that it had been used in not too

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 23

distant past, in the last few hours.

Q. And what next did you do in the apartment?

A. We continued making our sweep through the

apartment. We went back to the front door. I called

Detective Stewart, let him know what we had found and

what our observations were as we passed through, that we

did not locate Mr. Olivas or anybody else. And he

requested that we secure the apartment while he obtained

a search warrant.

Q. And when you say "secure the apartment," what

does that mean?

A. That means, practical application, we're going

to -- or closed it up, locked the door and maintained

our presence there to ensure nobody came in and out.

Q. Do you recall what time it was that you left the

scene of the apartment, where you no longer had a

presence at the apartment?

A. It was after 12:00 to 12:30, somewhere in that

area. I believe 12:23.

Q. And, Judge Johnson, I know looking through your

report, we discussed earlier that you noticed some parts

where you had some discrepancies or typos?

A. Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

Q. In your report you have something -- you wrote

that "Thomas was concerned for Raudry's safety." Was

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 24

that a misprint?

A. That was. That have should read "Stewart".

Q. And I believe also there's another paragraph

where you wrote, "I also told Olivas about the clothing

seen in the master bedroom"?

A. Yes, ma'am. Again, that should read "Stewart".

Q. Do you recall when it was that you typed out this

narrative?

A. It was after we left the apartment, while I was

in my vehicle, you know, maintaining the police

presence, securing the apartment.

MS. RAY: May I approach the easel, Your

Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Judge Johnson, I wanted to just

make sure I had some of the timestamps correct for your

testimony today. Okay?

A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. So what time was it that you were dispatched to

the Brookside address?

A. That would have been -- the first notification of

it via dispatch over the radio was at 6:49.

Q. And at what time did you arrive at 214 Brookside?

A. 7:15.

Q. a.m., correct?

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A. Yes, ma'am.

Q. And what time were you dispatched to the

apartment?

A. We weren't dispatched there, per se. We checked

in en route to there ourselves.

Q. And --

A. And that would have been at 7:52 a.m.

Q. And what time did you arrive at the apartment?

A. 7:53 a.m.

Q. Did you log or note when you actually cleared the

apartment, where you physically left the inside of

Apartment 208?

A. Yes. At 8:09 I was out of the apartment, the

apartment was secured and I was back at my vehicle.

Q. And you stated earlier that you remained in your

vehicle parked outside of the apartment?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And what time was it that you left the

parking lot of the apartment?

A. 12:23.

Q. p.m.?

A. Yes.

Q. Judge Johnson, I have just marked the chart, as

you was testifying to times. Did you see I was writing

down the times and brief description of what happened at

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 26

those times?

A. Yes, ma'am, I did.

Q. And State's Exhibit No. 201, is this an accurate

recitation of the times that you gave?

A. Yes.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 201, after tendering to Defense Counsel.

MR. MOORE: No objection.

THE COURT: All right. State's 201 is

admitted as offered.

(State's Exhibit No. 201 admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Now, Judge Johnson, as you remained

on the scene, did anyone ever come or go from that

apartment complex -- or I'm sorry -- not the apartment

complex, from Apartment 208?

A. No.

MS. RAY: One moment, Your Honor.

(Pause in proceedings)

MS. RAY: I pass this witness, Your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. MOORE:

Q. Good morning, Judge Johnson.

A. Good morning, sir.

Q. My name is Tim Moore. I don't think we've ever

met, have we?

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A. No, sir.

Q. How long have you been a justice of the peace up

in Wise County?

A. Since May 15th.

Q. Of this year?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Elected?

A. I was appointed.

Q. Appointed, okay. Are you enjoying it?

A. I certainly am. Certainly am.

Q. Good. You were a police officer for 18 and a

half years and you have been a justice of the peace now,

so you are certainly familiar with the term "probable

cause," aren't you?

A. Yes.

Q. And probable cause is a standard that is in our

legal system that -- it kind of means what it says, that

there's probably a reason to arrest somebody, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. We also use it to -- in search -- you sign search

warrants, don't you?

A. Yes, I have the ability. No, I have not done

that yet.

Q. Okay. But as a justice of the peace, you have

the ability to sign a search warrant, correct?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 28

A. Yes.

Q. And a search warrant is also a legal instrument

based on probable cause, isn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. That probably there's something in wherever they

want to search that is of value to the investigation;

would that be correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And what happens is, to get a search warrant or

an arrest warrant, like Detective Stewart was going to

do, you have to -- a police officer, or detective, has

to write out an affidavit and swear to it. And in that

affidavit there has to be facts sufficient to establish

probable cause to do what the warrant says. Would that

be correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Whether it's to arrest somebody or search some

building or house or car. A judge has to read that and

go over it and decide in their judicial capacity that,

indeed, there's enough reason to do what the officer

wants and they sign off on it. Isn't that how it works?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And I assume, on March 21st of 2011, early

in the morning, you were just patrolling the streets of

Grapevine when this call came in; is that correct?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 29

A. We were still in briefing when the call came in.

Q. Okay. About to go out on patrol?

A. Yes.

Q. You hadn't heard anything about a fire or a

homicide that happened in Arlington, Texas, earlier that

evening, had you?

A. No.

Q. Okay. When you got the call to go over to 214

Brookside, that was the first that you had heard about

this incident. Would that be correct?

A. Generally, yes.

Q. Okay. And did you know Rebeca Raudry before this

encounter with her that morning?

A. No.

Q. Did you know Thomas Olivas before that morning?

A. No.

Q. Had never had any kind of dealings with either

one of them in the past in Grapevine?

A. I had not.

Q. Okay. So you didn't know anything about Rebeca

Raudry the person, correct?

A. No.

Q. Okay. What was the sum total of information that

you had at that point in time to do a welfare check?

A. At which point in time are you referring to?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 30

Q. When you were dispatched to go do the welfare

check.

A. At the specific time we were dispatched, we were

just advised to conduct a welfare check.

Q. Okay. No reason?

A. Not from our dispatchers, not until I talked to

Detective Stewart.

Q. Okay. You were dispatched, I believe you

testified, at 6:49 a.m., correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And when did you talk to Detective Stewart?

A. Between that time and the time we arrived on

scene.

Q. Okay. That was 7:15, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. So sometime in that 26 -- 25 minutes you had a

conversation with Detective Stewart about this incident,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And did the information that Detective Stewart

provide to you, did that establish in your mind the need

for a welfare check?

A. On Ms. Raudry, yes.

Q. Okay. But you learned that when you got to

Ms. Raudry's residence and encountered her and spoke

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 31

with her, she was hysterical, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And she was scared, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you went in and checked the house, did a

search, made sure that everything was just fine,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And everything was fine, wasn't it?

A. At her house, yes.

Q. Okay. And she had had no contact with Thomas

Olivas, had she?

A. That's correct.

Q. So as far as her being hysterical and scared and

afraid, as a police officer, there wasn't any reason

that you could see to put her in that condition, was

there?

A. No, I disagree with that.

Q. What condition existed to put her in a hysterical

situation?

A. She was just out of a relationship with a person

who may or may not have been involved in a homicide of a

girl -- of Mr. Olivas' current girlfriend and that small

child and she was scared because she had two small

children and she lived very close to Mr. Olivas, so as

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 32

an officer, yes, I would believe that she had grounds to

be scared.

Q. Just based on that?

A. Based on that, yes.

Q. There was no threat made by Thomas Olivas to her,

was there?

A. No.

Q. There was no contact by Thomas Olivas with her,

was there?

A. No.

Q. She was just scared to be scared, wasn't she?

A. She was just scared.

Q. And she even told you that she didn't even know

where he might be, didn't she?

A. That's correct.

Q. She didn't have any idea where he was?

A. That's correct, and that's part of the reason she

was scared.

Q. Okay. And you were also informed that the victim

had been stabbed, correct?

A. No.

Q. Well, okay, you were informed that the victim --

that there may have been a knife or some kind of cutting

instrument used, correct?

A. Yes, sir.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 33

Q. Those are your words in your report, correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And Detective Stewart is the one that informed

you of that, isn't he?

A. Yes.

Q. And he also told you that Olivas may have been at

the murder scene and may have been injured, didn't he?

A. He did.

Q. And did he give you a basis for that information?

A. That was his observations of the crime scene he

had worked the night before.

Q. Okay. Did -- but did he tell you the basis of

those observations?

A. No. I don't recall that at all.

Q. Okay.

A. We did not go into specifics about injuries,

other than it appeared a knife or some type of cutting

instrument had been used. As far as detailed

conversation about injuries, methodologies or anything

of that nature, no, we did not do that.

Q. But he specifically told you that Olivas may have

been at the scene and may have been injured, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. But gave you no factual basis for why he thought

he may have been injured, or even at the scene, correct?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 34

A. That was just his observations, so, yes, I

suppose that would be factual.

Q. Well, and I -- what I mean is he didn't tell you

somebody saw him running off bleeding or any of those

kind of facts, did he?

A. No. No, sir.

Q. Okay. But it was on the basis of that, that he

may have been injured, that you wanted to go over and do

a welfare check on him at his apartment, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And that -- his apartment was not very far from

where Ms. Raudry was living. She was living with her

father, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So y'all are concerned about Mr. Olivas,

his welfare, and you go and basically search his

apartment, correct?

A. No, we did not perform a search of his apartment.

Q. Okay. Let me rephrase that.

Ms. Raudry gave you consent, because you had

learned that she had been living there with Thomas

Olivas and some of her things may have still been in

that apartment, so she gave you consent to search,

correct?

A. She gave us to consent to go check his welfare

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 35

there.

Q. Okay. And you did that, you went to his

apartment, which was a second-floor apartment over in

Grapevine, and entered using a key and looked around the

apartment, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And in that apartment you found some black

clothes; is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you pick them up and look at them?

A. No.

Q. What kind of clothes were they?

A. Just black clothes.

Q. Well, was it pants, shirt, sweater? Do you

remember?

A. No, sir. Again, we didn't pick things up, search

the apartment. We just checked the apartment for

Mr. Olivas in the case or the event he would have been

injured and we were checking his welfare.

Q. Okay.

A. Which is drastically different than a search. We

didn't pick the clothes up. I didn't pick the clothes

up. They were just black clothing.

Q. Just noticed the black clothing?

A. Yes.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 36

Q. Okay. And then you went in and looked in the

shower, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And it appeared somebody had taken a shower

recently?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you see any blood in the shower?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you see any blood droppings in the bathroom

anywhere?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you see any knives or cutting instruments

laying around?

A. No, we did not.

Q. Did you see any footprints -- was there carpet in

the house?

A. Yes, there was.

Q. Was there any footprints that you noticed that

may have had blood on them?

A. There appeared to have been some evidence of foot

traffic through the apartment, on the carpet, but as far

as bloody footprints, if that's what you're asking, no,

sir.

Q. That's exactly what I'm asking. You didn't see

that indicated that?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 37

A. No, sir.

Q. Okay. Now, he -- as far as you knew, he lived in

No. 208; is that correct?

A. Are you referring to Mr. Olivas as "he"?

Q. I'm sorry. Yes.

A. Yes.

Q. And that was a second-floor apartment and y'all

spoke with a neighbor that lived in No. 207; is that

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And -- was that directly below No. 208?

A. I don't recall. It's been some time since I've

been there.

Q. Okay.

A. And I would have to see the layout of the complex

again, a map of the complex, to give you an accurate

answer to that.

Q. It -- but it was in close proximity. Number 207,

208, they got to be neighbors, don't they?

A. Yes, it was very close.

Q. Okay. And did you get the name of that neighbor?

A. I did not.

Q. Okay. Did you talk to the neighbor?

A. Yes.

Q. And was that a male or female?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 38

A. I don't recall specifically.

Q. But that person told y'all that they had heard

some loud noises coming from Apartment 208 between 2200

and 2300 hours the night before, didn't he?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And 2200 hours is 10:00 o'clock; is that

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Military time that would be between -- I mean

civilian time. That would be between 10:00 and 11:00

o'clock, last night, would have been March 20th,

correct?

A. That -- the time would have been 10:00 p.m. to

11:00 p.m.

Q. Right.

A. The previous night.

Q. Of March 20th, that would have been March 20th,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And he had heard loud noises coming from

Thomas Olivas' apartment?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ask him any -- did you ask him to write a

statement out or explain anything further about that

incident?

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 39

A. Explain to who?

Q. To you. I mean, you were a policeman and he said

I heard loud noises coming. Did you say, Well, was

there screaming, was there thumps on the wall, what kind

of loud noises were there?

A. Couldn't elaborate. Only loud noises. And we

let him know that detectives would likely want to talk

to him at some later time.

Q. Sure. That would be an important witness,

wouldn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. And as a police officer, you would want to get

the name of that witness and thoroughly interview that

witness, wouldn't you?

A. Yes.

Q. And so to conclude, you secured the apartment, as

per Detective Stewart's instructions, basically by

sitting in close proximity in your car and making sure

nobody came in and out, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you left at 12:23, did somebody take

over for you?

A. I believe Detective Easley had arrived on scene.

And that's been over three years ago.

Q. Okay.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 40

A. So I don't specifically remember who was there.

I would not have left it unattended if they were still

waiting to obtain a search warrant.

Q. Because Detective Stewart was going to some judge

and getting a search warrant to search Mr. Olivas'

apartment, correct?

A. I didn't have that specific conversation with

Detective Stewart. That would be the normal procedure

to obtain a search warrant. Now, exactly what he was

doing in preparation to obtain that, I don't know.

Q. Well, I'm just going by your testimony where you

said Detective Stewart told you to secure the apartment

while he went and got a search warrant. That was your

understanding is that Detective Stewart was going to get

a search warrant, correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you-all at the Grapevine Police Department

made sure that nobody entered that apartment of

Mr. Olivas to disturb anything inside there?

A. That's correct.

Q. And that was done, correct? That was done

until -- you weren't there when Detective Stewart

arrived with the actual search warrant, were you?

A. No.

Q. Okay. But you know it was secured until he

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 41

arrived with that search warrant?

A. I know I secured it until I was relieved.

Q. Okay.

A. Now, at what time he arrived with a search

warrant, if he did, I don't know.

Q. You -- but you just know that Grapevine police

secured it until it was searched?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. Couple more questions.

Judge Johnson, when you went and talked with

Rebeca Raudry at her father's home, did -- was she aware

that there had been a double homicide in Arlington?

A. Yes.

Q. You didn't tell her that?

A. No.

Q. How did -- do you know how she knew?

A. I believe she had already spoken with Detective

Stewart. I don't specifically under -- or recall how

she first became aware of it. I only knew that she was

aware of it.

Q. Okay. And did she talk to you any about having

discussions the night before or conversations or e-mails

with Mechelle Gandy?

A. No, I don't recall that.

Q. Okay. You brought your report with you here

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 42

today, didn't you?

A. Yes, sir.

MR. MOORE: Judge, may I approach --

THE COURT: Sure.

MR. MOORE: -- and take it look?

Q. (BY MR. MOORE) Can I see your report?

Have you reviewed the entire Grapevine

police report before you testified here?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Thank you, Judge.

MR. MOORE: I pass the witness.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. RAY:

Q. I have a few questions, Judge Johnson.

You stated earlier that you're a Grapevine

police detective -- or officer for a number of years,

investigated a number of offenses?

A. Yes.

Q. Would it be expected that if someone -- that

someone could sustain injuries to themselves if they

were -- if they had been stabbing or using some sort of

cutting or stabbing instrument?

A. Yes.

Q. Would it be expected that someone may have

injuries that would require a welfare check?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 43

A. Yes.

MS. RAY: I'll pass this witness, Your

Honor.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. MOORE:

Q. Just one quick question.

In the Grapevine Police Department report,

there's some phone numbers listed in there. Do you know

who acquired those phone numbers?

A. Which phone numbers are you speaking about?

Q. I'm talking about the phone numbers on page three

of the general report, the 940-600-0297, cell. Do you

know?

A. I don't know who obtained those.

Q. Or the 817-265-8970, home?

A. Don't know.

Q. You don't know if that -- or the 817-481-1214,

home, you don't know?

A. I don't know specifically.

Q. Or the 817-343-1808, cell, do you know who gave

the Grapevine Police Department those numbers to put in

this report?

A. I do not.

Q. Do you know who at the Grapevine Police

Department would have taken this information?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 44

A. It could have been any number of the officers --

any one of the officers involved in our portion of this

investigation. It could have been myself, it could have

been one of the other -- any of the detectives or other

officers involved. But specifically I don't remember.

Q. Okay. Thank you, sir.

MR. MOORE: I'll pass the witness.

MS. RAY: No further questions for this

witness, Your Honor.

THE COURT: May the witness be excused

permanently?

MS. RAY: No objection, Your Honor.

MR. MOORE: No objection.

THE COURT: All right. Judge Johnson, I

hope it rains all the way home.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, Judge. I certainly

hope it does, too.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you for coming

in.

THE WITNESS: Thank you. I appreciate it.

(Witness excused from courtroom)

THE COURT: Who will be your next witness?

MS. RAY: Shannon Reeves.

(Witness takes the stand)

THE COURT: State your full, legal name for

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 45

the court reporter and the jury, as well, please.

THE WITNESS: Shannon Tiffany Fallentine.

THE COURT: Thank you. And face me and

raise your right hand.

(One witness sworn)

THE COURT: All right. Have you testified

before in criminal district court?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I have.

THE COURT: Are you familiar with all the

rules that apply to all witnesses while a trial is in

progress?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I am.

THE COURT: Those rules apply in this case

as they do in most. The one the court reporter will ask

me to remind you of is speak slowly, speak clearly and

one at a time.

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: All right.

And with that, State may proceed.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Judge.

INVESTIGATOR SHANNON FALLENTINE,

having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Ms. Fallentine, could you, please, introduce

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 46

yourself to the jury and tell them where you work.

A. Yes, I am a crime scene investigator for the City

of Arlington Police Department.

Q. And as the jury probably sees, you have "Reeves"

on your uniform.

A. Yes.

Q. You used to be known as Shannon Reeves?

A. Formerly known as, yes.

Q. Formerly known as Shannon Reeves. So, please,

forgive me. I know you as Shannon Reeves and I might

forget and call you Ms. Reeves.

A. That is fine.

Q. How long have you been with Arlington,

Ms. Fallentine?

A. I have been there for six years.

Q. And what position do you hold for the Arlington

Police Department?

A. I am a crime scene investigator with the CSU,

crime scene unit.

Q. And is that the position you've held during the

six years you've been with Arlington?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Prior to being in Arlington, did you have any

other crime scene experience?

A. I did. I worked as a crime scene investigator

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 47

for the Gwinnett County Police Department, which is just

outside of Atlanta, Georgia.

Q. And how long were you there?

A. I was there for one year.

Q. Any other experience?

A. No.

Q. So you had a year in Gwinnett and then six years

here in Arlington?

A. That's correct.

Q. I know a lot of us think we know what it means to

be a crime scene investigator, but, if you could,

describe what your job entails.

A. The job of a crime scene investigator in

Arlington, Texas, is to respond to violent persons

crimes, document the scenes, search for evidence, take

measurements, take photographs, and basically just

prepare for court, to introduce scenes to a jury, and

then to try to preserve the integrity of any evidence

that we collect, as well as processing it for latent

print evidence when necessary.

Q. I didn't hear you mention going to scenes and

interviewing suspects. Is that not part of what you do?

A. No.

Q. Okay. You don't get to drive around in Hummers,

with cool -- like, having The Who playing in the

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 48

background?

A. Thankfully, no.

Q. Not a fan of The Who?

A. Not a fan of Hummers.

Q. And, Ms. Fallentine, what sort of training do you

have that enables you to do your job?

A. I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice

from Jacksonville State University, with a concentration

on forensic investigation and a minor in biology, as

well as over 500 classroom hours in the field of

forensic science.

Q. And are there certain certifications and

qualifications you have to maintain in order for you to

do your job?

A. We are proficiency tested at the City of

Arlington every year to ensure that we are living up to

the standard that's required for that department.

Q. And I assume, are you passing your proficiency

test?

A. I am.

Q. Back on March 20th, 2011, what was your

assignment back then in terms of what was your shift?

A. It was the same as it currently is. I work the

midnight shift. I show up for work at 2300 hours and I

get off work at 7:00 a.m.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 49

Q. And 2300 hours is 11:00 p.m.?

A. Yes, sorry.

Q. No need to apologize.

At some point that evening were you made

aware of a call at the Presidents Corner Apartments?

A. Yes, I was. I was made aware upon arriving to

work that evening.

Q. So shortly after 11:00 o'clock you were told that

there was a scene that you would be dispatched to?

A. That's correct.

Q. What sort of details were you given about the

scene?

A. I was told that there was a death investigation

at that location regarding a female victim who had not

survived her injuries, who was located in a burning

structure.

Q. And what did you do with that information?

A. I then proceeded to contact my sergeant, as well

as my coworker on scene -- or excuse me -- in the office

with me at that time, CSI Tricksey, and request that

they both respond to the scene with me to assist.

Q. And so what happened next?

THE WITNESS: May I ask for permission to

refer to my report as I testify?

THE COURT: You can refer to your report any

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 50

time you need to refresh your memory. You may not read

directly from your report unless specifically asked to

do so.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

I began collecting all of our equipment that

we would require to process the scene and then did

arrive on scene at 2342, or 11:42 p.m.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) So it took you about 40 minutes to

get to the location?

A. Correct.

Q. If you could, describe the scene as you saw it

when you first got to the Presidents apartment.

A. Arriving on scene, the building itself, No. 2216,

was cordoned off with multiple fire trucks, police

vehicles, crime scene barrier tape, and patrol officers.

It was evident from the exterior of the apartment that

it had been on fire. And it appeared that the bottom

unit in the corner of the apartment was the actual

source of the fire.

Q. Do you recall what that apartment number was?

A. I was dispatched to No. 605. Upon arrival, we

rely heavily on markings on the doors of the apartment

in these larger apartment complexes to determine the

number. It was destroyed, unfortunately, and so I

referred to it in my report as 605.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 51

Q. When you got to the location, what did you do?

A. I began by meeting with officers, who are first

responders on the scene, and then began documenting the

exterior of the building photographically.

Q. And you stated earlier that it was quite apparent

which apartment was going to be the place that you were

going to do the bulk of the work?

A. Yes. There was heavy charring and soot all along

the exterior of a large front window facing out into the

parking lot area, as well as a decedent underneath a

white sheet located just outside the door.

Q. Was the apartment still actively burning when you

arrived?

A. It was not.

Q. What other observations did you make?

A. I also noted that the general air in the vicinity

of the apartment was very hazy and there was a very

predominant smell of soot and char in the air.

Q. When you -- you stated that you saw a decedent

laying in the doorway when you first arrived?

A. No. She was actually in the parking lot area,

just outside the front door of the apartment.

Q. Did you make any observations about her?

A. I did note she was covered with a sheet. There

were multiple medical equipment surrounding her. I did

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 52

proceed to document her condition upon my arrival,

without manipulating the body in any way.

Q. And when you say that, why did you not manipulate

the body?

A. We never do so before the Tarrant County Medical

Examiner investigator arrives on scene. The body is

property of the Medical Examiner's Office and it is not

our place to modify or manipulate it in any way.

Q. So you just make observations as you can without

touching the body?

A. Correct.

Q. Did you have an idea of who it was, what the

decedent's name was?

A. Officer Eilrich, when I arrived on scene, had

briefed me and given me the name as Mechelle Gandy as a

tentative ID. However, those are only tentative until

verified by TCME.

Q. And at any point at your -- upon your initial,

did -- was the white sheet removed from her?

A. Yes, it was so I could take photographs of any

visible injuries, without manipulating the body at all.

Q. And what, if any, injuries did you note?

A. I did observe some, several, stab and/or incise

wounds mainly located on the torso. She was clothed in

a pair of white shorts and she had one sock on her left

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 53

foot. Her right foot being bare.

Q. You stated earlier that you noticed incise

wounds. What does that mean?

A. I steer away from calling things stab wounds

because I'm not a medical examiner. I'm not performing

the autopsy. It can be difficult to determine how deep

a wound is without actually doing an autopsy. So I will

refer to them as stab and/or incise wounds just to

alleviate any confusion that I'm trying to make a

determination of what caused them.

Q. So for you, "incise" just is cutting?

A. Correct.

Q. At that time were you made aware of another

potential victim that the authorities were looking for?

A. I was also advised by Officer Eilrich that a

minor child, an infant, belonging to Ms. Gandy was at

the time missing and had not been located inside the

apartment, as of that time.

Q. After your initial observations of Ms. Gandy,

what did you do next?

A. At approximately 1:00 a.m. I met with Detective

Byron Stewart and Arlington Fire Department

Investigator Lea. I briefed them, let them know what I

had been told upon my arrival and at this time we then

began documenting the interior of the apartment.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 54

Q. So from 11:42, when you first arrived, to

1:00 a.m., what would you have been doing during that

time?

A. Documenting all the exterior grounds and

documenting the decedent, Mechelle Gandy. I also did

document a white Honda that I was told belonged to the

decedent in this case.

Q. And after 1:00 a.m. you then made contact with

Detective Byron Stewart?

A. Correct.

Q. Now, when you're on a crime scene such as this,

what is the relationship between you and the detective?

A. I like to have an open line of communication

wherein I can relay information about the interior of

the scene to the detective, as well as receive

information that they may garner from talking to

witnesses or other people involved in these offenses.

It just makes it easier to collectively process the

scene appropriately.

(Pause in proceedings)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) So when it comes to documenting or

working on the interior of a scene, you prefer to have

your detective there to help you to point out different

items of interest to the detective in order to help you

do your job?

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 55

A. Yes, I do.

Q. What additional information, if any, did

Detective Stewart give you upon your meeting with him?

A. Detective Stewart advised that he was interested

in any electronic items, such as laptop computers, cell

phones, as well as any court paperwork that I might

recover from inside of the apartment that was not

damaged.

Q. Did Detective Stewart stay on the scene with you?

A. No, he did not. He focused his energy on

locating the minor child at this time.

Q. At that time there was an Amber Alert for the

baby, for Asher?

A. Correct.

Q. Did you work with Investigator Lea at all?

A. Yes, I did. On fire scenes, arson scenes, it's

very important to have a collaboration between fire

investigators and crime scene investigators. I am no

expert in what they do and they are no expert in what I

do; therefore, a joint effort is mandatory.

Q. After the detective left to go look into the

issue involving Asher, what did you do?

A. I began to do a walkthrough of the apartment,

notating anything of evidentiary interest that I might

have observed. I then began photographic documentation

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 56

of the interior.

Q. If you could, describe what the -- in a general

sense, what was the interior of that apartment like?

A. The interior was very dark, very charred,

evidence of extreme heat and fire damage. Just inside

the doorway to the apartment, there was a great deal of

apparent blood noted on the floor of the kitchen. The

intensity of the burn patterns, in my opinion, seemed to

increase as I worked my way from the front door into the

residence, into the two bedrooms of the apartment,

specifically the bedroom indicated to belong to the

infant child.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, may I approach the

witness?

THE COURT: Yes.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Investigator Fallentine, I'm

showing you what has been marked as State's Exhibit 4.

Are you familiar with State's Exhibit 4?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. And what is State's Exhibit 4?

A. It is a diagram that was created by CSI Tricksey

to demonstrate the overall layout and areas of evidence

within the apartment.

Q. And the areas of evidence within the apartment,

are these items of evidence that you collected?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 57

A. Yes, they are.

Q. And are you familiar with the layout and the

markings indicated on State's Exhibit 4?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Does State's Exhibit 4 fairly and accurately

depict the apartment, as you recall it, in terms of the

placing of the markers and items of evidence and the

furniture?

A. Yes, it does.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 4, after tendering to Defense Counsel

for inspection.

MS. KEENE: I would like to take the witness

on voir dire for just one question, Judge.

THE COURT: Yes.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. Is this the same diagram that was produced to us

prior to? Is this the same one that you've seen?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. With no additions or anything?

A. Not to my knowledge, no.

MS. KEENE: Then I have no objection, Judge.

THE COURT: All right. Four, State's 4, is

admitted.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 58

(State's Exhibit No. 4 admitted)

THE COURT: All right.

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Okay. Now, Investigator Fallentine, you were

giving us a description of some of your initial

observations once you entered inside the apartment?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, on State's Exhibit 4 we have the apartment

listed as 605?

A. Correct.

Q. And that was your understanding of what this

apartment number is?

A. Correct.

Q. So starting with, I guess, at the beginning, when

you first step into the apartment, describe the layout

of what we're looking at.

A. Upon first entering the entire area, our decedent

would have been located here next to a vehicle. This is

the white Honda belonging to the decedent. In this

area, these two circles, each of these circles is

indicating an evidence marker number. I use evidence

markers for demonstrative purposes to make it easier for

everyone to follow along with what the photographs are

depicting.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 59

These two items are two bottles of charcoal

lighter fluid, but I don't want to forget to mention

them because they are not inside the apartment. Moving

inside, just inside the door, we have a galley kitchen.

Q. And, Ms. Fallentine, let me slow down for a

second.

Earlier you were talking about two markers.

You're talking about the markers that are 40 and 39,

that those were -- can you see those?

A. Correct. Yes.

Q. And you say that those were charcoal lighter

fluid?

A. Correct.

Q. And before we go through each detail, let's just

get a general idea of the layout of the apartment. So

when you go through the front door of the apartment,

which is near where the marker reads 38?

A. Correct. This is the front door opening into a

small kitchen area and the living room of the unit.

There's a sliding glass door to a patio, a small hallway

which leads to both the master bedroom, master bath,

spare bathroom, and the spare bedroom. A small laundry

area located here off of that hallway.

Q. And you stated earlier that the spare bed -- or

let me ask you this. Between the spare bedroom and the

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 60

master bedroom, which area had the most apparent fire

damage?

A. The highest degree of fire damage would have been

located in this spare bedroom here.

Q. And I see on State's Exhibit 4 the room we're

calling the spare bedroom has, I guess, its wall listed

as G and F?

A. Correct.

Q. The -- how would you describe the progression of

the fire damage starting at the back of the apartment to

the front of the apartment?

A. The heaviest amount of fire damage was notated,

again, as we said in this room. This spare bathroom was

also heavily damaged. The wall separating these two had

a large hole in it. Damage was significant through this

hallway, and along the living room area, it began to

fade out in severity as you moved toward the kitchen

area and fade in severity in the master bedroom itself.

Q. And when you look into the -- I guess, when you

first get through the front door in the kitchen area,

would you characterize that you noticed a lot of fire

damage?

A. There were some protected areas. There was

significant fire damage on the bar separating the

kitchen and the living room, significant fire damage on

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 61

the countertops itself. The floor was somewhat

protected in this area by fluorescent light plastic,

the plastic sheeting that covers it, which had fallen

down onto the floor, had melted and fallen down onto the

floor, thereby protecting the floor in that area and

apparent blood that was located in that area.

Q. You mentioned apparent blood. Was -- how would

you quantify or how would you qualify the amount of

blood in the front of the apartment?

A. There was a very significant amount of blood on

the kitchen floor and in this small entryway. It

decreased as you moved into the living room area and was

nonexistent, as far as I could tell, in this half of the

apartment.

Q. Investigator Fallentine, after you first walk

through a scene and you make your observations, what's

the next step you take after making your observations?

A. The next step is to document the scene as it was

upon my arrival. I document it photographically so that

there is an accurate representation of the way that it

looked.

Q. Now, are there any special challenges that come

with documenting a scene of a fire?

A. It is very challenging based on the dark nature

of these scenes. The black soot absorbs light from a

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 62

flash very, very readily. It is difficult to get proper

exposure out of photographs like this, just as it's

difficult to actually know what you're looking at when

things are melted into the top of a bar. It can be

challenging to even discern what it is that you are

looking at. Photographing it makes it even more

difficult.

I was also not able to use a tripod in this

scene due to the standing water in a lot of areas along

the floor from the fire extinguishing efforts and, also,

because I did not want to put my tripod down on evidence

that I might discover after, you know, doing a more

thorough investigation. It was very challenging.

Q. Why would you prefer -- why would you even want

to use a tripod? Why is that your preferred method?

A. You learn really quick when you work at night

that no matter how still you think you can stand, there

is an inherent shutter that runs through every human

person. And you are unable to hold a camera steady for

the length of time it will take with an extended

exposure and extended shutter speed. Having a tripod

and a shutter release cable removes that shutter and

allows you to get a nice clean photograph without any

jittering.

In this case, I had to use a higher --

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 63

faster shutter speed just to be able to avoid that

shutter, but that does usually end up with a darker

photograph.

Q. And you stated something about the condition of

the floor. What was the ground like that you were

walking on?

A. Any carpet had been completely destroyed. It was

wet in some places. Standing water was evident. There

was soot, char, burned debris all over the floor. It

was a mess.

Q. Investigator Fallentine, I am showing you what

has previously been marked as State's Exhibit 8, State's

Exhibit 10, State's Exhibit 11, State's Exhibit 12, and

then State's Exhibits 14 through 113, inclusive. Could

you please look at these items.

THE COURT: You know what, why don't y'all

take a stretch break and she can take her time going

through the stack of pictures, so we don't stare at each

other and watch paint dry. While she does her job,

y'all can take a stretch.

(Break taken, 11:10 - 11:35 a.m.)

(OPEN COURT, DEFENDANT AND JURY PRESENT)

(Witness on the stand)

THE COURT: You may continue.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Investigator Fallentine, during a

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 64

break you had an opportunity to look at the exhibits, 8,

10, 11, 12, and then 14 through 113, inclusive?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And are these photographs you took at the scene,

at Presidents Corner, Apartment 605?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. And do they fairly and accurately depict the

scene as you documented it that evening?

A. Yes, they do.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I'd offer State's

Exhibit No. 8, 10, 11, 12, and 14 through 113,

inclusive, for all purposes, after tendering to Defense

Counsel for inspection.

THE COURT: Fourteen through a hundred and

what?

MS. RAY: Thirteen.

THE COURT: One hundred and thirteen. Thank

you.

MS. KEENE: And, Judge, during the break I

looked at each one of these and we do not have an

objection to the numbers.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. KEENE: Or exhibits.

THE COURT: And I thank everyone for going

through all this while the jury was on break so we

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 65

wouldn't have to pause two or three times to look at

each individual exhibit.

All right. State's 8, 10, 11, 12 are each

admitted. Y'all get comfortable. State's Exhibit 14,

15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 are each admitted. State's

21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, and 30 are each

admitted. State's 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39,

40 are each admitted. State's 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46,

47, 48, 49, and 50 are each admitted.

State's 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59,

60 are each admitted. State's 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66,

67, 68, 69, and 70 are each admitted. State's 71, 72,

73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, and 80 are each admitted.

State's 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, and 90 are

each admitted. State's 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98,

99, and 100 are each admitted. State's 101, 102, 103,

104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, and 113 are

each admitted.

(State's Exhibit No. 8, 10-12, 14-113

admitted)

MS. RAY: And, Your Honor, these exhibits

have all been downloaded into a PowerPoint presentation

and I ask permission to publish these exhibits via our

PowerPoint?

THE COURT: Is the exhibit number visible on

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 66

the face of the PowerPoint image?

MS. RAY: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Then you may do so.

And, Tamla, make sure each time you go to an

exhibit you make sure you put the number in the record

which one you're talking about. With that many,

sometimes it's easy to lose track.

MS. RAY: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Does Defense have any objection

to PowerPoint use for purposes of presentation?

MS. KEENE: We do not, Judge.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. RAY: And, Your Honor, may Investigator

Fallentine also step down to view the State's Exhibit 4

while we talk about the exhibits on PowerPoint?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Pause in proceedings)

THE COURT: All right. You may proceed.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Investigator Fallentine, we're now

looking at State's Exhibit No. 8. Seems pretty

self-explanatory. But if you could, explain what it is.

A. It is a picture of the front of the apartment

complex depicting the name of the apartment complex,

Presidents Corner.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 67

Q. Now, as we get through it, we'll notice that the

time of day changes throughout some of these photos?

A. Correct.

Q. Why is that?

A. This was taken as I was leaving the scene, which

was I believe around 1:45 that afternoon, that next

afternoon.

Q. So you worked this scene over 12 hours, I guess

close to 14?

A. Over 14 hours.

Q. Now, looking at State's Exhibit 9, which is --

was a prior admitted exhibit. But did you take State's

Exhibit 9?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And if you could, tell us what we're looking at

in State's Exhibit 9.

A. On the right side of the screen is the unit in

question. This is going to be the apartment that we are

discussing here today, 605, as I knew it, 601 as perhaps

everyone else seems to know it.

Q. Apparently we notice that the dispatch records

refer to it as 601?

A. Correct.

Q. But it was your understanding that it was

Apartment 605?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 68

A. I am dispatched telephonically through our

dispatch services. The person who dispatched me on the

phone said 605. I know that because it gets put in my

notes immediately as I'm dispatched. I believe it was

simply an error on that person's part.

Q. And despite the discrepancy about which apartment

number, it was pretty readily apparent which apartment

that you were being dispatched to?

A. Yes. It was very obvious that this was the

apartment that had been on fire.

Q. State's Exhibit 10, what are we looking at in

State's Exhibit 10?

A. This is a different view of that same apartment.

This is the master bedroom window off the master

bedroom. The front door is in this area, recessed here.

And the decedent, the female decedent, is here on the

ground.

Q. And on the right side of a white Honda?

A. Correct. If we're looking at our diagram, we're

now in this location here.

Q. And "the diagram" being State's Exhibit 4?

A. Correct.

Q. And you circled the area that reads "decedent

one"?

A. Correct.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 69

Q. And is this how Mechelle Gandy was when you got

on the scene?

A. Yes.

Q. State's Exhibit No. 11, what are we looking at?

A. This is another view of the master bedroom

window. Again, if we're looking at our diagram here, it

is this window.

Q. And on State's Exhibit 4 you pointed to the

window on the -- it's the southeast portion of the

apartment?

A. Correct.

Q. State's Exhibit No. 12, what are we looking at?

A. This is a view of Ms. Gandy as she appeared upon

my arrival. This picture was taken to depict all the

medical equipment and fire equipment that was

surrounding her when I arrived.

Q. And the apartment that we can see, which -- what

doors are we looking at?

A. This would be Apartment 603, and 605 is recessed

in behind this little wall here. It's a north-facing

door, as opposed to an east-facing door like this one.

Q. Did you -- the apartment, the second-floor

apartment, did you have reason to go up there and search

those?

A. I did not.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 70

Q. Was it your understanding that they did not

contain part of this crime scene?

A. That's correct.

Q. State's Exhibit 13 is one that was previously

admitted before you, but did you take State's Exhibit

13?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And what are we looking at in State's Exhibit 13?

A. This is the front door to Apartment 605. This is

603. Again, this is the front of the white Honda here.

And this is a little grill with two bottles of charcoal

lighter fluid, which are depicted in our State's Exhibit

4 as being against the eastern-facing wall outside

Apartment 603.

Q. And what markers were those?

A. Markers 39 and 40.

Q. State's Exhibit 14, are we looking at a closer

view of the -- is it 39 and 40?

A. Correct.

Q. And next to 39 and 40 there is a small, I guess,

barbecue grill?

A. Yes.

Q. Could you -- if you could, describe to the jury

what that barbecue grill looked like.

A. The barbecue grill itself wasn't -- didn't appear

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 71

hot. It had sand in it. Did not have the appearance of

having been cooked on anytime recently.

Q. Did it look like anyone was making fajitas on

that grill?

A. Not to me, no.

Q. State's Exhibit 15, what are we looking at?

A. Looking at the front door to Apartment 605.

Again, the damage is significant, the paint peeling off

from the extreme heat. I was unable to determine the

actual unit number. Had I seen 601, I would have then

made notation in my notes that I was given the incorrect

information.

Q. Any other observations about State's Exhibit 15?

A. It is somewhat difficult to see, but the

dead-bolt assembly, there is damage to the door frame in

that location right here, which I was told was done as

rescue efforts were made to gain entry into the

apartment.

Q. Did it appear to you that the damage was

consistent with that door having been kicked in or

forced in?

A. Yes, it did.

Q. Also, in State's Exhibit 15 there's something

right here in the doorjamb. What was that?

A. That is a plastic soup ladle from -- I'm assuming

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 72

from this kitchen, used to prop the door open, I'm

assuming in an attempt to aerate the unit.

Q. State's Exhibit 16, what are we looking at?

A. This is the view into the kitchen from standing

outside of the front door. You can better visualize now

the damage to that dead-bolt assembly. If we are in

State's Exhibit 4, we are now standing in this location

looking in at the kitchen.

Q. And if you could, give us a little -- some of the

markings by the door. Were -- what marking is that by

the front door?

A. We have -- are you wanting the evidence marker

number?

Q. Just something to help the record reflect where

the front door is.

A. The front door is a north-facing unit, so we are

on the northeast corner of the apartment now.

Q. State's Exhibit 17, what are we looking at?

A. We are still standing outside the front door of

the apartment taking photographs to depict the interior

landing. Just inside the front door, as you can see,

areas of apparent blood were visualized here on floor,

as well as on a small wall which separated the kitchen

from the living room. So we are looking in at the

kitchen again and this wall area here.

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 73

Q. And what's one of the markings on State's Exhibit

4, that wall?

A. Go with evidence marker 25.

Q. Now, earlier when you described Ms. Gandy, how

was she dressed?

A. She was clothed in a pair of white shorts and she

had one sock on her left foot.

Q. And what did -- do you recall what color that

sock was?

A. It was a black and white ankle sock.

Q. State's Exhibit 18, what are we looking at?

A. This is a view of the kitchen from the

perspective of the front door.

Q. On State's Exhibit 18, I believe you testified

earlier about some plastic sheeting that appeared to be

from the overhead lighting?

A. Yes. It's, again, a little bit difficult to see,

but you can make out the framework of the fluorescent

lighting panels at the top of the photograph. And where

you see what appears to be tread patterns from boots,

this is a tread pattern made in the soot deposit on top

of plastic sheeting, which I believe has melted and

fallen from the ceiling.

Q. And what was under that plastic sheeting?

A. The floor beneath it was very bloody and that

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 74

blood was protected to a certain extent from fire and

rescue efforts, like the water and things they use to

extinguish the fire, was protected by that plastic

sheeting.

Q. And State's Exhibit 19?

A. We are looking at the kitchen counter. This

would be the kitchen counter on the west side of the

kitchen, so our sink is here. So, again, we are looking

from the perspective of the front door into the unit.

Q. So the front door is still at your back?

A. Correct.

Q. Was this a particularly large area?

A. It is not. I have the exact measurements, but I

believe it's approximately three-and-a-half feet wide.

Q. State's Exhibit 20?

A. We've now switched our position. Our back is now

to the back of the kitchen looking out towards the front

door, which is depicted here. So now we're looking at

the east side of the kitchen which had our range and

stovetop areas. The pantry area would be to our back

now.

Q. How would you characterize the damage that you

noticed in the kitchen and in terms of fire versus

smoke?

A. It was heavily charred and sooted to the west

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 75

side. The bar and the kitchen counter near the sink was

definitely damaged. A lot of paint had bubbled up along

the -- what would be considered the southern wall of the

kitchen. However, there were items in the kitchen which

strangely appeared untouched, which is -- as this cereal

box. You can make it out quite clearly that it's a

cereal box. That's, once again, one of the interesting

facets of arson that -- it's not my expertise so I can't

explain that.

Q. State's Exhibit 21?

A. We are still in the kitchen with our back to the

pantry. We are now looking at the western side of the

kitchen, the sink. There were items, just your

miscellaneous normal household items, cell phone

charger, cutlery. You can see some infant -- a baby

sippy cup, for lack of a better term, here. You'll

notice how the paint has bubbled and peeled here on the

northern retaining wall of the kitchen. And for

perspective, this is going to be outside of the front

door, this fireman here.

Q. State's Exhibit No. 22, what are we looking at?

A. This is a knife block, which was obviously

located here next to the sink. The evidence marker

number given to this knife block would be 35, so --

forgive my shaking hand, but it's right here.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 76

Q. On State's Exhibit No. 34, where was it -- I'm

sorry -- on State's Exhibit 4?

A. State's Exhibit 4, it is right in the

southwestern corner of the kitchen.

Q. And what was the item marker for that?

A. Marker 35.

Q. Did you ultimately collect the knife block

depicted in State's Exhibit 22?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. State's Exhibit No. 23, what are we looking at?

A. This is the kitchen counter, just next to the

knife block. Again, if you're looking at an evidence

marker number, it's going to be 36 in the southwestern

corner of the kitchen. On this wet rag, all of this

entire area, again, saturated from rescue efforts. Two

brown handled paring-style knives. Again, they're a

little bit difficult to make out in the photograph, but

they are in this location here.

Q. Did you ultimately collect those?

A. I did.

Q. State's Exhibit No. 24, what are we looking at?

A. This was an item that was on the bar top. It's a

pair of infant shoes. It would have been located closer

to the middle section of the bar separating the kitchen

and the living room, in this area here.

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 77

Q. State's Exhibit 25, what are we looking at?

A. This photograph is to depict the plastic sheeting

we were talking about which was covering portions of the

kitchen floor, thereby somewhat protecting the areas

underneath. It is -- if we are trying to orient the

front door up here in the top of the photograph and the

oven and stovetop, it's going to be our right. If we're

in State's Exhibit 4, we're basically in the central

floor of the kitchen area here.

Q. Now, earlier you stated that the floor had a

combination of -- some parts of the floor were

particularly saturated, wet. Other parts of the floor

in the apartment were bloody and then others -- still

others were completely burned beyond recognition.

State's Exhibit 5 (sic), how would you character that

as -- was this the bloodiest area of the apartment?

A. State's Exhibit 25 is depicting what I would

consider to be the largest pool of apparent blood from

within the apartment.

Q. Did it appear consistent with a body having laid

there and bleeding for some time?

A. Depending on the wounds, it does indicate that

they -- the person would have been there for some period

of time, yes.

Q. State's Exhibit 25 -- or 26. What are we looking

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 78

at?

A. Just to orient ourselves, this is the front door

again. You can see a little bit of the damage we talked

about. This is a small closet that was directly behind

the front door. If we are in State's Exhibit 4, we are

now looking at this area right here. It is the

northeast quadrant of the kitchen. We can see apparent

blood transfer patterns on the closet door itself,

including some directional spatter over to the left of

the doorknob and midway down the door.

Q. Investigator, as part of your training in crime

scene, do you undergo any sort of training in blood

spatter analysis?

A. We do. There are different levels of blood

spatter analysis. Every crime scene investigator is

trained to recognize certain pattern types,

directionality, per se, high velocity blood spatter,

which looks like aerated blood. I am not trained to

reconstruct blood spatter, so the best that I can do is

to indicate the general type, meaning, a transfer

pattern where something what -- that was bleeding has

come in contact with a surface, versus directionality

castoff patterns, say, from a weapon or female's hair or

something to that extent. But definitely having

directionality to it, as opposed to simply making

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 79

contact with an actual surface.

Q. And you also stated something about aerated.

What do you mean by aerated blood?

A. High velocity blood spatter in the instance of,

say, a gunshot wound, high velocity blood spatter

appears almost like a mist, very small droplets, which

we don't see here. What you see here is more of

evidence of a large quantity of blood making contact

with a surface, enough quantity to then run down --

in -- in rivulets down the wall, so a significant

amount.

Q. And State's Exhibit 27?

A. This is a closer view of that same transfer

pattern.

Q. Now, you stated earlier that when you first got

to the scene and you made your observations of

Ms. Gandy, you did not manipulate her body because that

was something -- a job for the medical investigator,

correct?

A. Correct.

Q. But you did make observations of incise or knife

wounds on her chest, on the part of the body that you

could see?

A. Correct, on her torso, generally speaking. I do

believe she possibly had an injury below her midline,

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 80

but the majority of them appeared to be on the upper

body.

Q. At some point were you able to notice injuries on

the other -- on other parts of her body?

A. Yes. I would have to refer to my report for the

specific time, but I want to say approximately 2:15 the

Medical Examiner Investigator Greenwell arrived on scene

and he then began documenting Ms. Gandy, at which time

he did lift her so that we could photograph her back and

she did have additional injuries to her back that were

similar to the ones to her front.

Q. Now, using that information that you gleaned when

y'all looked at her back and side to the transfer

patterns we're seeing on State's Exhibit 27, did it

appear to you that State's Exhibit 27 was, you know,

consistent with, say, a bleeding wound from a back being

up against the door or wall?

A. That might be outside my expertise.

Q. Okay. State's Exhibit 28, what are we looking

at?

A. This is the precipice interior and exterior of

the front door to the apartment. You can see a good

deal of apparent blood which has begun to coagulate

even, which is a -- the quantity we're talking about is

fairly significant. This, at the top of your screen,

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 81

top of the photograph is a black and white sock similar

to the one that was on her left -- Ms. Gandy's left

foot. If we're orienting ourselves in our diagram, the

sock is number 38, just inside the door there.

Q. Would you say, if you recall, would the blood

pool on State's Exhibit 28 be more or less than the

blood pool you observed in the kitchen?

A. It is a lesser quantity than the one in the

kitchen.

Q. State's Exhibit 29, we're looking at a closer

view of the black and white sock?

A. Yes. That's, again, number 38, right here.

Q. State's Exhibit 30, what are we looking at?

A. This is a photograph of the wall separating the

kitchen from the living room areas, so this surface

here, for directionality in State's Exhibit 4, it would

be at the northeast corner of the kitchen area, just

south of the front door. In the picture it's evident

that -- it is apparent blood transfer pattern beginning

up -- probably up about midway on the wall. And again,

if we're discussing quantities of blood, significant

enough to cause runoff down the wall after it was

transferred.

Q. State's Exhibit 31, what are we looking at?

A. This is going to be, let's see, the wall opposite

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 82

the retaining wall in between the kitchen and the living

room. So we're talking about this wall area here.

State's Exhibit 4, it's going to be the wall just west

of the front door. It also depicts a pattern --

transfer pattern of some type, again, with runoff.

However, due to the heat -- and you can see what we call

a demarcation line, indicating extreme heat at the top,

and a lesser heat, less discoloration at the bottom.

But as we can see here, regardless, it was

enough to remove -- if this is, indeed, apparent blood,

which I am unsure of, but if it is, it has actually

transferred and discolored this blood to a grayish and

blackish color, instead of the oxygenated red blood as

we saw before.

Q. And State's Exhibit 32?

A. State's Exhibit 32 is going to be marker number

24. And let's see, right here, and is going to be at

the northwest corner of the door, front door here.

Q. When we look at State's Exhibit 31, the -- where

on State's Exhibit 31 is the --

A. We are right here, so front door, and we are,

again, northwest corner of the door.

Q. And there's our closer view of it.

A. And this, again, is an apparent blood transfer

pattern of some sort. Again, we can tell the difference

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 83

here with the red color, as opposed to that grayish

blackish color that we saw in the last photograph.

Q. Now, when we talk about the -- on State's Exhibit

4, we just saw quite a few pictures indicating blood

spatter and blood evidence in this corner -- in this

area, the foyer, if you will, of the apartment. How

would you -- would it be fair to say that the large --

the most blood found in that apartment was clustered in

this area?

A. Yes. In fact, most of the evidence collected, as

indicated by the evidence marker circles that you see

here, did come from the kitchen and small entryway area

of the residence.

Q. Now, in State's Exhibit 33, what are we looking

at?

A. State's Exhibit 33 is a photograph of the desk

that was located just west of the front door. It's this

desk here. This photograph was specifically taken to

demonstrate the use of fire department equipment. This

is a light that they utilize. It's very high-powered.

As you can see, it didn't light the area all that much.

But I like to take photographs to show -- if there is

any intervention to a crime scene, any equipment left, I

always take photographs to depict it for the jury to see

how it looked when I arrived. So that's what we're

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 84

looking at there.

Q. And State's Exhibit 34?

A. We are, again, the same equipment here, same

desk, looking into the living room. This is a good

demonstration of how dark the scene actually was. I

have a light source and my flash and this is the best

that -- exposure that I could achieve. But in State's

Exhibit 4 we are now standing just at the southeast

corner of the desk looking westward into the living room

area.

Q. And what's some of the damage you noted in

State's Exhibit 34?

A. If you can make it out, my angle is bad here, but

there is an overturned cocktail table. There is, again,

that demarcation line. It's very evident here that the

heat was incredibly extreme on the top half. This is a

fireplace. The mantel of the fireplace is almost

completely destroyed. Everything that was atop it was

almost melted beyond recognition. The patio doors,

which are located here, have that same demarcation line

and the glass is almost completely blackened. There is

standing water and other debris littering the entire

floor of the living room.

Q. State's Exhibit 35 looks a little brighter?

A. This, again, we are looking in the living room.

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 85

This is an overturned cocktail table. If we're in

State's Exhibit 4, this is our cocktail table here in

the central portion of the living room. As you can see,

there is extensive damage to the sofa and love seat.

The seams burst, stuffing exploded from it. There was

stuffing slightly melt -- partially melted into the

floor. The ceiling had begun to fall, leaving parts of

the ceiling on top of a lot of items in the area.

The plastic blinds, sliding curtain

arrangement that was hanging in front of the patio door,

has since melted and become almost unrecognizable on the

floor in front.

Q. State's Exhibit 36?

A. This is a photograph that's still in the same

perspective point of the love seat. The back of the

love seat, again, you can see the damage all the way

down to the frame from the fire. We are now standing in

this location. We are looking southward from the

northeast corner of the living south towards the hall.

The hallway is to the left of the photograph.

Q. State's Exhibit 37?

A. We're now fully facing the hallway which ran

north to south in the living room area. Again, our love

seat is to the right on the photograph and the kitchen

would then be to the left in our photograph. So we are

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 86

standing here and we're taking the photograph down this

way.

Q. So on State's Exhibit 4, you're -- if you could,

point again to where you --

A. Yes. We're standing in the northeast corner of

the living room photographing south down the hallway.

Q. State's Exhibit 38?

A. This is a photograph of the bar which separated

the kitchen area to the left from the living room area,

which is to the right in our photograph. You can see

miscellaneous personal effects and items atop the bar,

which most of which, as I said before, unrecognizable.

Q. Earlier you made some remarks about the line of

demarcation. Is State's Exhibit 38 also a pretty good

example of how the difference in the damage from -- I

guess from counter height on up versus counter height on

down?

A. It is. You can see the demarcation here very

clearly. It's bubbled on the southern end of the bar,

the wall on the southern end of the bar. However, this

also is a good photograph to demonstrate how surfaces

can be protected from heat by other surfaces. So the

retaining wall of the fire, underneath the countertop,

was in some ways protected from some of that heat by the

countertop itself.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 87

Q. Prior to this scene, had you worked any other

arson scene?

A. I had worked one or, I believe, possibly two in

Gwinnett County, one of which was a vehicle. So it is

actually quite different. But in working with the fire

department so closely on these scenes, you do pick up

and learn quite a bit.

Q. And what did you learn about -- just about the

way heat and fire works in terms of whether it rises or

falls?

A. Well, I think we're all pretty familiar with the

concept of heat rising. I mean, that's not a new

concept. One thing that is interesting to be told is

how it actually almost behaves like water in a lot of

ways. And I don't want to overspeak because, again, I'm

absolutely no expert in arson, but I have heard it

described that way, the way that it actually covers

surfaces.

Q. It kind of moves towards the path of least

resistance.

State's Exhibit 39 we've come full circle in

the living room.

A. Yes. So, again, we are now looking at -- to the

left at the front door and then the -- it would be

considered the northeast -- nope, my apologies,

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 88

northwest corner of the bar. There was a cell phone

charger in this area that had actually fused into the

bar top from the heat, but very evident demarcation

here.

Q. Now on State's Exhibit 40, what are we looking

at?

A. We are now standing in the living room at the

northwest corner. Fireplace is here to our left.

That's our mantel. So the front door is directly in

front of us and the hallway we were just looking to --

at would be to our right.

Q. And State's Exhibit 41?

A. We've now moved slightly south and taking a

photograph east towards the bar area from the western

side of the living room. And, again, you can see the

amount of debris, overturned furniture, sort of a

child's stroller here and then the saturated nature of

the flooring and just the destructibility of the fire in

this location.

Q. State's Exhibit 42?

A. This is a photograph of an entertainment center

located in the southwestern corner of the living room

and a television which is behind the entertainment

center, which assumably was on top of the entertainment

center at one point. Again, interestingly enough in

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 89

this photo you can see the child's toy almost appears

completely untouched.

Q. Right south -- or I guess if we're looking at

the -- on State's Exhibit No. 42 right below that, it

looks like it's Asher's drum. What is that object?

A. It's very hard to make out in this photograph,

but it is a laptop computer directly on the floor in

front of the entertainment center. It has a USB, like a

thumb drive in the USB slot. Again, just almost

completely destroyed and standing in a puddle of water.

Q. Did you eventually collect that?

A. I did.

Q. Now, State's Exhibit 43, what are we looking at?

A. We are now standing in the southwest corner of

the living room looking out towards the northern --

northwest corner of the fireplace. The mantel is full

of melted things. I'm not sure exactly what most of the

those things used to be.

Q. To say "things" is pretty much the closest we can

get with some of these objects?

A. I apologize. I was unable to determine what a

lot of things in that apartment were, actually, or had

been.

Q. And State's Exhibit 44?

A. This is a photograph of the sliding doors to the

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 90

patio. Again, you see that demarcation line very

evident on the glass, as it was still visibly able to

view through on the bottom half but almost completely

opaque at the top from the soot and the damage. This

area at the foot of the patio doors, those are the

plastic strips, the sliding strips, blinds, that you see

in apartment complexes routinely.

Q. What are we looking at in State's Exhibit 45?

A. State's Exhibit 45 is a photograph of the handle

to the patio doors. I did note some -- what appeared to

be pry marks on this door. Due to the nature of the

call, the damage from the fire, I wasn't able to

ascertain whether or not they were new or older pry

marks, but they were documented as possibly being

relevant.

Q. State's Exhibit 46, what are we looking at?

A. This is a closer view of that door handle. In

the subsequent photographs we'll see evidence of the pry

marks I'm speaking of.

Q. Okay. State's Exhibit 47?

A. Scratches are evident. Otherwise, no damage to

the actual locking mechanism of the door, other than the

pry marks.

Q. And State's Exhibit 48?

A. We're able to see them a little bit better here

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 91

and they are angular in shape and they are probably

about two -- possibly two inches, encompassing a space

of two inches just above the actual handle.

Q. State's Exhibit No. 49?

A. This is the photograph I was waiting to get to.

Q. Okay.

A. As you can see, they are rectangular, angular in

shape and there are at least three, if not possibly

additional, scratches and scuffs to the metal.

Q. And you said based on the -- I guess, the damage

that the fire did, you couldn't tell whether or not

these were recent or older pry marks?

A. That's correct. What you look for, things you

look for to determine that, would be flaking paint,

small residual pieces of metal that are still attached,

anything that would weather away over a short amount of

time. And in this case the efforts of the fire

department to blow water all through there and the fire

itself, any of that would have been destroyed simply by

those efforts. So it's impossible to say when those

were actually applied.

Q. Would it be fair to say this apartment complex

was not the best apartment complex?

A. Apartment complexes in general are habitually

known for burglaries and break-ins. It just comes with

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 92

the nature of it. So it's not uncommon to see any type

of damage, old damage to doors, apartment doors,

especially screen doors or sliding back doors. It's

actually fairly common.

Q. And State's Exhibit 50?

A. These are what I believe to be some sort of a pry

mark or some type of agitation mark to the plastic frame

of the screen door, which was just outside of that glass

door we were just looking at.

Q. Okay. State's Exhibit 51, what are we looking

at?

A. We've moved back inside the apartment now.

These, again, the plastic strips that form the blinds

that hang down in front of the patio door have melted,

fallen to the floor. We also see some children's toys

and a dishtowel which, again, I know it doesn't look

like a dishtowel, but it is, right here atop the blinds.

That is going to be evidence marker number 17 and kind

of glary area for me here, but right here, to clarify,

northwest corner of the living room.

Q. And the dishtowel, was there anything of note

about the dishtowel?

A. Yes. The dishtowel appeared to have singe marks,

as well as apparent blood on it, making it interesting

in an evidentiary way in multiple different ways. So

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 93

here we can see the apparent blood on the dishtowel in

State's Exhibit 52. We can also see that it is atop

blinds, however, below the rod. Normally in a crime

scene you are looking for things that would indicate

timeframes, like this fell on the floor before the

person started to bleed or bled on it.

In this case with the high pressure water

hoses that were used, I have a hard time stating where

anything was before FD intervention on this scene.

Q. But you can note that the vertical blinds have

melted and fallen to the ground and then somehow this

lands on top of it?

A. Or is blown on top of it by a water hose or

kicked on top of it by a fireman's boot. I really

couldn't say.

Q. Would it be fair to say when firefighters are

going through an apartment, they're not really looking

at crime scene preservation?

A. No. And that's fair, very fair. We don't get

mad about that because they're there to save people and

property, and I'm there to clean up after.

Q. State's Exhibit 53, what are we looking at?

A. We're now back looking at the western side of the

bar. We are at evidence markers -- well, it's going to

be ten, cigarette pack, ten here, and then 41, which is

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 94

just above it. Again, the northwest corner of the bar

is going to be an area of blood that's on the baseboard

and the wall. We're also looking at some -- I don't

know if you can make it out from this photograph, but

there is a protected piece of floor again, this

rectangular object, which is on the central living room

floor, in my opinion had been covering this area of

blood before it was kicked or moved by a hose or a boot.

And it did -- once it was moved, it exposed a slightly

protected area of red oxygenated blood on the floor.

Q. And State's Exhibit 54 is a closer view of what

you were just talking about?

A. Yes, it is. So we can see this rectangular item.

Again, it's burned beyond recognition. I don't know

what it actually was, but it has left what I believe to

be a demarcation area on the carpet here where I believe

it to have been atop this area here before it was moved.

Q. State's Exhibit 55 is a -- looks like you are

doing a measurement of the blood depicted in State's

Exhibits 53 and 54?

A. Correct. It's a poorly exposed photograph of the

area of blood that we just looked at.

Q. You seem very sensitive about the exposure in

this apartment?

A. Yes, as the camera is mirroring on the white

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 95

measuring device and everything in that apartment was

gray or black and so it was challenging to get these

photographs done.

Q. State's Exhibit 56, what are we looking at?

A. During the course of my investigation, I did

coordinate with Investigator Lea to get photographs that

might benefit him in his fire investigation. This is

one I took of the ceiling area above the bar. So we are

looking at a ceiling, which is above this area, facing

down southbound into the hallway of the apartment. As

you can see, it has burned away most of the ceiling.

The paint is in very poor, very charred condition. And

the items that were part of the ceiling, whether they

were lights or ventilation, may have started to melt and

then fall.

Q. State's Exhibit 57?

A. Okay. We're now standing at the precipice of the

living room and the hallway. So we are standing here,

photographing southward into the hall. In this

photograph, again, you can see we no longer have a very

specific demarcation line here. There's no white or

light gray wall. It -- you can tell, in my opinion, not

as an expert, but that the fire did burn much hotter in

this location as we're moving south into this portion of

the apartment, the southwest corner of the apartment.

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 96

Q. State's Exhibit 58, which direction have we

turned and what are we looking at?

A. We have now turned to face this direction, east,

from that same vantage point, looking at a hall closet.

That's depicted on the left side of the photograph and

the entryway to the master bedroom on the right side of

the photograph. So it would be this doorway right here.

Q. State's Exhibit 59?

A. Okay. We are looking -- sorry. We are now

standing with our back to the southern portion of the

hallway looking out into the living room area. This is

the desk near the front door along the northern wall.

So we are now here, looking this way.

Q. Now, could you tell the -- on State's Exhibit 59,

what was this material down here, the light green

material towards the -- I guess, the bottom left corner

of State's Exhibit 59?

A. That to me appears to be stuffing from either the

sofa or love seat, which during rescue efforts was blown

from that area down the hall, south down the hallway.

Q. State's Exhibit 60?

A. We are now standing in that same location. I'm

basically doing a 360-degree view from most of these

vantage points, so you'll see a lot of redundant vantage

points. But we are now looking in a southwestern

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 97

direction towards what you can see used to be a laundry

area in the central portion of this photograph.

At the top left of State's Exhibit 60 we see

some sort of ceiling-mounted ventilation or air

conditioning, some metal contraption. I did hit my head

on that more than one time. So it was very low-hanging,

as I'm only 5'5. So that just demonstrates, again, that

this area had burned far more significantly in this

location than any of the living room areas.

Q. State's Exhibit 61?

THE COURT: Tamla?

MS. RAY: Yes.

THE COURT: Five minutes and we'll send them

to lunch because you're -- we're going to be a while, I

assume; is that correct?

MS. RAY: Yes, Your Honor. I have 113.

THE COURT: There's no problem. No, I

understand. And having looked at it and see the pace

you're going -- I have no problem with how either side

does their job. I'm just going to give the jury a break

before we get through all these pictures just because

it's about 12:35.

Are y'all good for about another five

minutes before we eat?

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes.

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THE COURT: Does that sound about right for

y'all?

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. Then why don't

you -- I tell you what, when you get to 70, stop at 70.

MS. RAY: Okay. I might even stop before

then --

THE COURT: That's fine.

MS. RAY: -- just narratively.

THE COURT: Depending on how much detail.

MS. RAY: Okay.

THE COURT: That's fine.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) State's Exhibit 61?

A. State's Exhibit No. 61 is a photograph of the

interior of the laundry area. In our diagram here it's

going to be on the northern side of the west-running

hallway. You can see -- kind of see, a lot of plastic

and metal shelving that has melted and collapsed down on

top of what used to be a washer and a dryer.

Q. And would it be fair to say just that the fire

damage is getting more and more extreme the further back

we go?

A. Yes, that's a fair statement.

Q. State's Exhibit 62?

A. State's Exhibit 62 is standing with the washer

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and dryer to our left, facing into the master bedroom.

To the east we can see -- I don't know if you can make

it out -- but through the window of what is an Arlington

Police Department patrol car and more personnel, so this

would have been the window on the eastern wall of the

master bedroom, the one that we photographed from the

exterior and looked at several slides ago.

Q. And 63?

A. We're now in the master bedroom. We are in the

master bedroom. An interesting note about this

photograph is the ceiling fan is almost completely

melted away. The paint on the walls is, again,

incredibly damaged. But we do, again, have a

demarcation line on what is going to be the southern

wall of the bedroom. The mattress, you can see exposed

springs as a result of the fire.

Q. And, again, this window is the window that we see

in those much earlier photos as you're arriving on the

scene. This is the window that faces to the parking

lot?

A. Correct. It is the window on the eastern side of

the master.

Q. State's Exhibit 64, what are we looking at?

A. This is another wall inside of the master

bedroom. It's going to be the wall in this area, off of

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 100

the master bathroom, kind of separating. So it's on the

western wall of the bedroom in State's Exhibit 4.

Denoting that this photograph is just --

again, depicts a very, very evident demarcation line,

almost blackened paint where it still is visible. Yet

you have just a lighter, a much lighter gray color as

you move down.

Q. Sixty-five, what are we looking at?

A. Sixty-five is a photograph of the master bathroom

in the master bedroom. So this room here. We are

obviously standing in the master facing westward into

the bathroom. You can see in this photograph the damage

caused to the mirror. Again, I don't know the logistics

or chemistry behind it, but it was very evident that the

blackened and opaque quality of the glass surrounded

this central portion, which was much brighter. I'm sure

there's a reason. I don't know it, but...

Q. State's Exhibit 66, what are we looking at?

A. We now moved from our master bathroom into the

spare bathroom. So this is a photograph standing in

this hallway. In State's Exhibit 4 it is the hallway

which runs east to west. And we are now facing south

into the spare bathroom. You can see much, much hotter.

The actual countertop is beginning to melt and deform.

The porcelain of the sink is -- or ceramic of the sink

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is blackened. Whereas, it was white in the master

bathroom. So that indicates to me an incredible

increase in heat just between the master and spare

bathroom.

Q. State's Exhibit 67?

A. Another photograph standing now inside the spare

bathroom. So we are now standing in a vantage point

here photographing out the doorway, north, or into the

hall. This would be the -- sorry -- the washer and

dryer.

Q. State's Exhibit 68?

A. I mentioned earlier that there was a hole in the

wall between the spare bedroom and the spare bathroom.

It is on the western wall, the spare bathroom. And it

is what we are looking at through here. I'm not sure

how it was created, but it was large enough to

photograph through.

Q. Sixty-nine?

A. We are looking at the door to the spare bathroom.

It was off its hinges and falling down. It is going to

be at what we would say -- it's evidence marker four.

It's being held up by an assistant.

Q. And State's Exhibit 70.

A. This might be a good -- this is going to be the

spare bedroom. We are standing just inside the doorway

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 102

here, photographing in from the east to west hallway.

Q. Now, would it be fair to say that the -- the

spare bedroom had the bulk of -- the brunt of the fire

damage?

A. Yes. Even without being an expert in any type of

arson investigation, it was very evident. There were no

articles of furniture, no discernable items left, except

for a water heater that was located in the northeast

corner, which we'll see a picture of. Everything else

was completely decimated.

Q. Now, at the point when you were taking these

photographs, has Asher been found?

A. Not at this time.

Q. When you first started taking photographs, you're

still out there with -- Investigator Stephen Lea is

still there with you?

A. Yes.

Q. So what was he doing while you're taking

photographs?

A. The arson investigation was suspended pending my

initial documentation of the residence photographically,

for the reason that I need photographs of it untouched

before he began sifting through the debris and looking

for evidence of arson. So at this time he was pending

and waiting for me to finish taking my photographs, my

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 103

initial photographs.

Q. And once you finished taking your initial

photographs, what did he start doing?

A. He began in this room, because it was believed at

the time to be a room which the fire was actually

started, and he began sifting through the debris in the

room looking for any items of evidentiary value and

potentially looking for the infant child, Asher.

Q. And did he eventually find something in this

bedroom?

A. He did. Indicated in State's Exhibit 4, the

second decedent, a small infant, was located in the

southeast corner of the bedroom on top of a metal set of

springs around the same size of an infant bed. However,

all the mattress had burned away, and on the springs, he

was located, I believe, under eight to nine inches of

Sheetrock.

Q. And looking at State's Exhibit 70, are we looking

at the corner where Asher was eventually found?

A. Yes, ma'am, standing inside the doorway looking

at that direction.

Q. And at the time when you took State's Exhibit 70,

did you know that you were taking a picture of Asher?

A. No.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, we can go ahead and

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 104

take our break.

THE COURT: All right. Lights.

I'm going to give you an hour and 20 minutes

to eat so you don't get in a hurry. I know you maybe

could be a little quicker, but I don't want anyone

tripping or slipping or having to dodge cars that

haven't adjusted to the wet weather after so long

without it. So be at your pickup point -- just be at

your pickup point at 2:00 or by 2:00. The sheriff will

bring you back up here.

Everyone else, we'll start 2:05, 2:10,

whenever the jury is squared away. So be back in an

hour and 20 minutes.

Remember your instructions. We'll pick up

from there.

Everyone remain in the courtroom until the

jury has left the floor.

(Lunch break taken, 12:40 - 2:00 p.m.)

(OPEN COURT, DEFENDANT AND JURY PRESENT)

(Witness on the stand)

THE COURT: On the record.

Everybody eat that wanted to?

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes.

THE COURT: Everyone follow your blue card

instructions at lunch?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 105

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Thank you.

Still the State's witness. Still direct

examination.

State your name for the court reporter

again.

THE WITNESS: Shannon Fallentine.

THE COURT: All right. And you may resume.

And outside voice, you're away from the

microphone.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Okay. Investigator Fallentine,

right before the break, we were discussing the division

of labor between you and Investigator Lea, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. So if you could, explain again how you guys were

working together at the scene.

A. He was waiting until I finished my initial

documentation of the crime scene, after which he then

began his investigation of the arson aspect at the time

by starting in the spare bedroom.

Q. So it was -- it was abundantly clear that the

spare bedroom was where the brunt of the fire or where

the fire probably started?

A. Yes.

Q. So what was it that he was doing while you were

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 106

documenting?

A. He was sifting through the debris on the floor

looking for any items of evidentiary value or note in

his investigation. I had made it clear that I was

looking for also the same things he was looking for, as

well as any sharp objects, instruments that could have

been used to inflict the wounds that we saw on

Ms. Gandy.

Q. And I know you've had lunch, but remember we've

got it slow it down.

THE COURT: Yeah. I was -- you saw me

looking for the sign, didn't you, Tamla?

You may continue.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Judge.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) So we are -- in State's Exhibit 70

we are in Asher's bedroom?

A. Correct.

Q. And what part of the bedroom are we looking at in

State's Exhibit 70?

A. We are looking from the doorway of the bedroom in

the direction of the southeast corner of the room.

Q. And State's Exhibit 71, what are we looking at?

A. We have now moved on to the southwest corner of

the room, to include this window here on the western

wall.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 107

Q. State's Exhibit 72?

A. This is a photograph that was taken to assist

Investigator Lea. This is of a light fixture and the

beams of the room. This assists him in determining heat

and temperature the fire burned in this location.

Q. State's Exhibit 73, what are we looking at?

A. We have now moved on to the northwest corner of

the room. In this vicinity we see a large pile of

debris. I was able to make out a few items which

appeared to be melted diapers in this area. However,

any of the furniture or other items that have been in

the room were almost completely destroyed.

Q. Now when you were in this apartment, does the

apartment appear to be appropriately furnished?

A. As best as I could determine, yes.

Q. For example, in the master bedroom there was a

bed and a dresser and that sort of thing?

A. Correct.

Q. And in the living room there appeared to be toys

and highchair or stroller, appropriate items for a woman

who had a baby with her?

A. Yes.

Q. But in this bedroom did you see any such

appropriate -- those kinds of furnishings, like a

changing table or a crib?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 108

A. Not that I could readily identify at this point.

Q. State's Exhibit 74, what are we looking at?

A. We are looking at the northern wall of the

bedroom. Again, this wall, as you can see, it's white,

almost no paint remaining. Several areas of intense

burn and a demarcation line, which corresponds to the

pile of miscellaneous debris that is on the floor in

that northwest corner of the room.

Q. And State's Exhibit 75?

A. Here we are looking in the northeast quadrant of

the bedroom and we see that lone water heater, just

about the only remaining distinguishable item in that

location.

Q. And, Investigator Fallentine, I probably should

have been given you a heads-up. I'm going to ask you

some questions about times, so if you need to go get

your report...

A. May I?

Q. Yes.

THE COURT: Do you have enough light to read

over there?

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. You may proceed.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) You stated at some point that the

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 109

medical investigator came -- arrived at the location.

And what time was that?

A. 2:17 in the morning.

Q. And what part of the -- where did the medical

investigator go and what did he do?

A. He began his investigation with the female

decedent, Ms. Gandy, on the outside of the apartment. I

seized my documentation to proceed to assist him in his

efforts, as well as to get documentation of the back

side of Ms. Gandy and any injuries that she may have

sustained to her back. After completing that

documentation, I then returned indoors to continue

documentation.

Q. And while you were now outside -- now that you

were no longer in the back bedroom taking photos, does

that allow Investigator Lea to go in and continue his

investigation?

A. Yes, I did complete my photographs of the spare

bedroom before proceeding to Ms. Gandy. And

Investigator Lea then began his portion of the

investigation in that room as I was assisting MEI

Greenwell.

Q. And MI Greenwell will would be the name of the

medical investigator, right?

A. Medical Examiner Investigator Greenwell.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 110

Q. At some point did Investigator Lea indicate to

you that he had found something?

A. Yes. At 2:30 in the morning he approached me

outdoors and advised he had found the remains of a small

infant in the spare bedroom, in the southeast corner of

that room.

Q. And what did you do?

A. At that time we proceeded with MEI Greenwell into

that bedroom to document the infant child.

Q. Before you had gone -- when we said that

Investigator Lea was doing his investigation in that

bedroom, literally what was he doing?

A. Sifting through debris, trying to determine where

the actual point of origin for the fire was, to

determine whether accelerants had been used, things that

the fire department is charged of investigating.

Q. State's Exhibit 76 is a photo of the water heater

still in the bedroom?

A. Yes. This is showing the relationship of the

water heater to doorway, just setting up basically a

point of view shot of that.

Q. And 77, what are we looking at?

A. This is a photograph taken directly after

Investigator Lea determined he had remains in this

corner of the bedroom. You can see here some of his

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 111

tools that he was using to sift through the debris. I

did use my flashlight to light up the area in which he

was indicating for clarity in this photograph. So this

area is going to be where the infant child is located.

Q. What observations did you make about the

condition of the infant child?

A. From the perspective of looking down upon the

remains, when they were first located, it did not look

like a human person.

Q. Did -- at what point were you able to identify

some distinguishing characteristics?

A. Medical transport personnel arrived at

approximately 3:17. The deceased child was picked up

from metal framework on which he was lying. At that

time, as he was lying on his left side in the debris,

his left side was protected to a certain degree from the

fire and you could make out distinguishing

characteristics, human characteristics and clothing on

his left side.

Q. Before you -- before he was carried out, were you

able to identify anything, like clothing or anything,

diaper, or anything on the child?

A. The only thing that I could make out was a small

plastic tab around what appeared to be midway between

the top and bottom of the remains, which was similar in

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appearance to a diaper tab, but that is all.

Q. And once the investigator, or the medical

investigator picked him up, you were able to see his

other side?

A. Yes. You could make out facial features and

clothing?

Q. Could you tell what sort of -- could you describe

the clothing?

A. It appeared to be light blue in color. I

remember a portion of a sleeve, but it was certainly

burned and destroyed on his right side, making it

difficult to determine if it was a simple T-shirt or an

actual onesie.

Q. State's Exhibit 78, what are we looking at?

A. These are the remains as they were located by

Investigator Lea. This is the area in which we are

looking -- the charred black area and it's the gray

rubble. As you can see, it doesn't actually look like a

person.

Q. And State's Exhibit 79?

A. This is a photograph as he was removed from the

metal framework. As you can see, the light blue or

turquoise-colored top. Just to orient you, we're

looking at the head being on this side, the bottom and

then the legs and feet.

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Q. And --

A. And a small hand here.

Q. And this is Investigator Greenwell?

A. No. This is medical transport personnel,

Mitchell and Davis, from transport services arrived.

I'm not sure if this is Mitchell or Davis.

Q. State's Exhibit 80, what are we looking at?

A. We are going to start to seeing the evidence

markers that I talked about before, which I've used for

purposes of clarity. This evidence marker number one

was used to depict the metal framework, which was

located underneath the decedent in the southeast

quadrant of the spare bedroom.

Q. Now, in this photo, this is after Asher has been

removed?

A. Yes. Asher has been tentatively identified as

Asher Olivas and he has been removed at this point,

leaving just what was beneath him and metal framework

and debris.

Q. And State's Exhibit 81, what are we looking at?

A. After his removal, Investigator Lea continued to

remove debris on top of the metal framework, leaving it,

and only it, exposed so I could document it and take

decent measurements of its location.

Q. Did you have an indication of how much debris was

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 114

on top of Asher?

A. Investigator Lea had stated it was eight to

nine inches. However, I was not there to measure that

amount, so I cannot really state it for a fact.

Q. Earlier when -- before Asher had been discovered

and you were in that room taking photographs, how long

would you say you were in that room?

A. Approximately 15 minutes.

Q. And while you were in that room, did you have any

idea or reason to believe that Asher was still in there?

A. No.

Q. State's Exhibit 82, what are we looking at?

A. We are looking at the doorknob from the spare

bedroom door, located on the floor in front of the

window on the western wall of the spare bedroom. It's

indicated by evidence marker number two on State's

Exhibit No. 4.

Q. And when we talk about a doorknob, did you ever

see an actual door?

A. I did not see a door to this room.

Q. State's Exhibit 83, where have we gone? Are we

back in the living room?

A. We are in the living room. We are on the western

side of the bar, at evidence marker number ten, which is

right here. A pack of very damp, crushed Marlboro brand

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cigarettes.

Q. State's Exhibit 84, what are we looking at?

A. We are looking at evidence markers 13 and 14,

marker 13 being paperwork which appeared to be

court-related paperwork, which Detective Stewart had

requested we look for and collect, should we find any.

Evidence marker 14 is depicting a small area of apparent

blood on the face of a box underneath the desk. Again,

where we are looking here is going to be 13 and then 14.

Q. And all the item markers indicate items that you

collected?

A. Yes.

Q. So State's Exhibit 85 is a close-up view of the

apparent blood that you swabbed?

A. Correct.

Q. State's Exhibit 86?

A. We are looking at evidence marker 15 and depicted

here to the west of the desk of the living room area,

that is a disposable lighter. Due to the nature of the

scene, it being an arson, all lighters were also

collected on scene.

Q. State's Exhibit 87?

A. This is evidence marker 17 depicting the towel,

that we discussed earlier, as being just inside the

patio door. Again, State's Exhibit No. 4, we see it

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 116

indicated just east of the patio sliding door.

Q. State's Exhibit 88?

A. Evidence marker 18. Another disposable lighter

located on the patio table itself, on the corner of it,

patio table.

Q. State's Exhibit 89?

A. This is evidence marker 19. This is the laptop

that we discussed and could barely see in the other

photograph. You can see the debris. It was standing in

water, it is in very poor condition, but located in

front of entertainment center in the southwest corner of

the living room.

Q. And what are we looking at in State's Exhibit 90?

A. This is a close-up photograph of the thumb drive,

which was plugged in to the USB port of the laptop, to

demonstrate its poor condition. It was melted and

broken, as well, but still plugged in.

Q. State's Exhibit 91?

A. This is depicting evidence markers 20 and 21.

Twenty-one is somewhat hard to see due to the cover of

the sofa here. These were located underneath an end

table, which was here at the southeast corner of the

living room, just at the hallway. Evidence marker 20 is

indicating a cellular phone, again, waterlogged and

fairly damaged. Twenty-one is indicating a Bud Light

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beer can which is located underneath the table.

Q. State's Exhibit 92.

A. This is a better photograph to depict the same

beer can.

Q. State's Exhibit 93?

A. Evidence marker 22 is a female's button-up

blouse. It was located on the corner of the love seat,

which was in the southeast corner of the living room

area, just off the north/south hallway portion.

Q. State's Exhibit 94?

A. Evidence marker 23, depicting two sets of keys.

They were located just inside the front doorway to the

west, on the floor. They appear to have fallen off of a

key hook apparatus which had melted off the wall.

Q. Did you make any sort of attempt to see if you

could figure out where these keys belonged?

A. I did utilize the keys to test the dead-bolt lock

to the front door and they did disengage and reengage

that lock successfully.

Q. Which set of keys did that?

A. Unfortunately, I did not note that in my report

specifically.

Q. So --

A. But they were both collected.

Q. And on State's Exhibit 94, the set of keys right

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here, are you familiar with what an old-style Honda key

looks like?

A. I drove a very old-style Honda for many years and

I can tell you my key looked very much like this.

Q. And so would that be perhaps consistent with the

'94 Civic -- or -- '94, '95 Civic that Mechelle drove?

A. In my opinion, yes.

Q. State's Exhibit 95, what are we looking at?

A. This is a photograph taken of the front door and

the closet door behind that. Again, we are now getting

into the location in the residence where y'all see a

fair number of evidence markers specially placed for

clarity in this area. Thirty-eight is placed to

indicate the sock that was located just outside the

front door, 26 to indicate the damage to the dead-bolt

assembly and doorknob of the front door, 27 to indicate

an area of blood on the floor in this area, 28 to

indicate the doorknob to the closet, and 29 to indicate

the blood pattern here on the wall of the closet door.

Q. State's Exhibit 96 looks like a close-up of 29?

A. It is. It's -- a standing ruler was placed to

give an approximate height of that particular

bloodstain.

Q. And what is that approximate height?

A. Well, center mass appears to be approximately two

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

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feet, if I was to see that properly. Two feet.

Q. And State's Exhibit 97, what are we looking at?

A. This is the directional blood spatter which was

noted on that same closet door. So, again, we are here

behind the front door on this closet door. Again, we

were talking about the basic types of blood patterns

that you see routinely. This pattern does indicate a

directionality from -- if we were to look at the

photograph, top right to bottom left, as if blood was

cast off either an object or possibly a person.

Q. State's Exhibit 98?

A. Here we're looking at the range hood for the

stove. So we are in this area now. This was a very

dark stain. It did have a lot of similar appearances to

apparent blood just based on the way the runoff has

pooled here at the bottom. Due to the fact I could not

determine exactly what substance it was, it was

collected to be tested at a later date.

Q. State's Exhibit 99?

A. Here we see markers 31 and 32. Thirty-one placed

to demonstrate areas of blood on the fronts of the

cabinetry below the microwave. So we are now

currently -- let me double-check that first -- we're now

currently in this location here. Thirty-two was placed

on the area of large apparent blood, a pool of which was

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covered by the plastic from the lighting assembly.

Q. State's Exhibit 100?

A. This is -- our photographs are usually taken with

measuring devices in them as well to depict size. It's

a good practice, and you'll see several of these.

Q. State's Exhibit 101?

A. This is the blood patterns from evidence marker

31 that are on the front of cabinetry under the

microwave.

Q. If you could, could you -- because it's kind of

getting mixed up with the grain. Where was the apparent

blood spatter?

A. Here. We have some here. Here. And some in

this area.

Q. So on State's Exhibit 1, the blood -- the

apparent blood spatter appears to be, I guess, dead

center of State's Exhibit 101?

A. Yes. It's going to be framed by the measuring

device here.

Q. And I guess you note -- you noted four or five.

How many blood splatters did you note just now?

A. There were several. I was indicating the larger

ones that I felt the jury would be able to see from

their vantage point. There are several smaller apparent

stains, possible spatter, but the primary areas are

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 121

going to be right in here.

Q. State's Exhibit 102, what are we looking at?

A. This is a photograph of the bloodstain, a large

bloodstain on the kitchen floor at 32. We are now in

this area here. This was the stain which was covered by

the plastic sheeting. You can see in the coagulation of

the blood itself. The actual pattern of the grated

plastic has embedded itself into that coagulation.

Q. State's Exhibit 103?

A. This is another photograph of that same portion

of plastic which had fallen from the ceiling and it was

lifted up and documented to show the warpage and the

apparent blood transfer from the floor onto that side of

plastic.

Q. State's Exhibit 104?

A. Evidence marker 34 is being used to indicate a

lighter, another disposable lighter, tucked underneath

some mail on the kitchen counter in this area here.

Again, for clarity, southeast corner of the kitchen.

Q. State's Exhibit 105, what are we looking at?

A. We're now looking at the western side of the

kitchen. We are in the southwestern quadrant of the

countertop here. We are looking at the knife block,

that we discussed earlier, as evidence marker 35. The

marker you can see here is not facing us due to space

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constraint. Thirty-six is used to indicate the two

brown-handled paring knives that we noticed in an

earlier photograph. Thirty-seven is being used to

demonstrate the knives that were located inside of the

dishwasher itself.

Q. State's Exhibit 106?

A. This is a better photograph to demonstrate the

two brown-handled paring knives at evidence marker 36.

Q. So the two knives are directly above the marker?

A. There's one here and one here, slightly to the

right in the photograph.

Q. State's Exhibit 107, what are we looking at?

A. We are now on the living room side of the bar at

evidence markers 10 and 41. Forty-one is being used to

indicate areas of apparent blood near the baseboard and

on the wall in this area. Evidence marker 10, again,

the package of Marlboro cigarettes that were located on

the floor in that area.

Q. State's Exhibit 108?

A. These are close-up photographs of the apparent

blood that was on that western side of the bar, near the

baseboards.

Q. State's Exhibit 109?

A. Additional photograph of the actual blood on the

baseboard itself directly underneath what we just looked

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at.

Q. And 110, is that the same apparent blood drop?

A. It's a -- yes, it's an additional photograph

taken without the evidence marker in place.

Q. Now, what are we looking at in State's Exhibit

No. 111?

A. This is the exterior at the southwest corner of

the unit. The patio area, running along the west of the

apartment where there was a fence that ran along here, a

wooded area behind this fence. At the corner and along

the southwest corner there was a build-out which housed

the meters to this building. And this is a photograph

to document that property.

Q. Can you tell in State's Exhibit 111, what -- was

there some sort of damage done to the fence that seemed

to be somehow darkened or blackened?

A. The fence line that ran along the western edge of

the patio behind this unit did sustain some fire and/or

smoke damage as a result.

Q. And could you tell, did this fence, this portion

that we see that's opened, did it appear to be

functional? Was it supposed to be open or did it appear

to be broken to you?

A. It did not appear to be broken. I do not recall

whether or not it had a locking mechanism.

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Q. And a closer view of that area of the backyard?

A. Correct. This is just to depict the actual

condition of the fence door itself, to show that none of

the boards are broken and/or missing in this area.

Q. And, I guess, we can see some of this -- some

debris back there in the backyard?

A. Yes. There was debris both from the upstairs

unit above the decedent's apartment, as well as some

debris from the spare bedroom of that apartment, which

was cast out by Investigator Lea during his

investigation.

Q. State's Exhibit 113, what are we looking at?

A. The build-out that we just looked at that housed

the electrical meters that run through these conduits

here. Along the bottom of this build-out approximately,

probably four feet down on to the ground, there were

several items, miscellaneous garbage and trash. But

there was also a screwdriver in this location, flathead

screwdriver, which I decided I would note for many

different reasons; one, we had the pry marks on the back

door, and two, she did have incise, cutting, and/or

possibly stab wound injuries. So...

Q. So when did you collect that screwdriver?

A. That screwdriver was collected during my next

shift. I returned to the property to collect that

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screwdriver. When I initially noted it, it was covered

in debris. It looked like it had been there for some

time. I did clear the scene, had gone home. It was

bothering me and so the next shift I returned,

redocumented it, noted it was in the same condition and

collected it just to be cautious.

Q. Okay. Investigator Fallentine, I'll give you a

break to sit down and ask you some questions before we

get to some more photos.

Now, after you photographed the various

areas of the scene, what did you do after that?

A. After the initial documentation photographically

the next step is place the evidence markers and take

additional photographs. That's done for purposes of

clarity, especially important in this scene where it's

hard to even see what you're really looking at in a lot

of the instances. After placing the markers and

redocumenting photographically, we then began taking

measurements of these areas and items of evidence on

scene.

Q. And when you say "we," are you talking about

Investigator Tricksey and yourself?

A. Yes. She assisted me in collecting those

measurements.

Q. Generally speaking, on a scene of this size, is

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that usually how y'all work, some of you guys will help

each other out, someone will be primary and then there'd

be secondary?

A. Yes. On almost all homicides we require two

people to respond to a scene.

Q. After taking your measurements, what did y'all

do, or what did you do?

A. I then proceeded to collect the items of evidence

that we had already determined would be of importance.

This was done to preserve the integrity of these items,

as we were still operating within the apartment and it

was difficult to see. After collecting those items, I

then continued to search for areas that would be

conducive to latent print processing, of which there

were -- there was only one.

Q. And where was that area?

A. The exterior of the patio door. It was protected

from a bit of soot and though dirty, it was protected

from a lot of the water that was sprayed on the interior

of the apartment. And I did process that area.

Q. And, I guess, that goes along with the question

of what made the other surfaces unsuitable for latent

print search?

A. Fingerprints definitely don't like heat. They

also don't care for water. Both of which we had an

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 127

abundance of in this case, not to mention most surfaces

were covered with soot, ash and debris which renders

them impossible to be printed at the time of our

response, and possibly ever.

Q. And if you could, please, tell the jury, what

items did you collect from this apartment?

A. Would you like a list of them?

Q. Yes. Let's walk through what you collected.

A. Would you like item numbers, as well, or just a

general description?

Q. A general description.

A. I collected the metal framework that was

underneath the infant decedent, Asher. I collected all

doorknobs in the apartment. I collected any flammable

liquids that I located. There was a small can in the

spare bathroom which I was unable to determine exactly

what liquid it was. But it did have writing on the can

itself that described it as toxic and as flammable.

The two bottles of charcoal lighter fluid

from outside the apartment were also collected. I

collected a purse from the master bedroom. The pack of

Marlboro cigarettes that we saw on the floor in the

living room, as well as a package of Virginia Slims

cigarettes which were on the bar itself. I collected

several knives. We talked about the butcher-style block

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with the three knives in it, that was collected, as well

as a butcher-style knife that was in factory-sealed

packaging that was on top of the bar, and a long square

Tonto-type bladed knife, which was also sitting side by

side with the packaged butcher knife on the bar itself.

I selected the miscellaneous paperwork from

the desk, the court paperwork. The electronic devises,

I collected two cellular phones from inside the

apartment, the laptop computer that we saw, that was

melted. And an unknown electronic device from the

fireplace mantel. To this day I still don't exactly

know what it is, but Detective Stewart had requested all

electronic devices from the apartment that might have

some evidentiary value.

Q. Investigator Fallentine, the cell phones that you

collected, did they have any sort of identification in

terms of what carrier those phones belonged to?

A. Yes. There was a Verizon LG brand cellular

phone. That was the one that we saw at evidence marker

20, which was underneath the end table in the living

room area. And then there was another Verizon LG brand

cellular phone which was inside of a dresser drawer

inside the master bedroom, the top dresser drawer.

Q. And I interrupted you. What else did you

collect?

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A. I collected the Bud Light beer can that we saw

underneath the end table; the woman's shirt on the side

of the love seat; the two sets of keys that we saw near

the front door; the dishtowel that we saw in front of

the patio door; a dollar bill that was partially singed

and burnt, which was located on the kitchen floor; a

library card, which I located on the ground along the

south side of the building. It was quite a bit farther

past the area of debris that we saw outside the patio.

And there wasn't a real good explanation for why it

would have made it that far, in my opinion.

The sock, which was outside the front door;

eight knives from a plastic utensil tray that were in a

top drawer north of the refrigerator; a roll of duct

tape with an unknown red stain on it, which was on the

floor in front of the end table, near the Bud Light beer

can and a cellular phone; two cameras; control swabs

because of the apparent blood that was also collected;

and some miscellaneous papers that are located in the

bedroom closet, as well.

Q. Now, when you -- how do you collect samples of

apparent blood?

A. Apparent blood is collected using distilled water

and sterile cotton-tip applicators, Q-Tips, if you will.

They are then placed into breathable boxes and paper

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bags to promote drying and prevent mold.

Q. Now did you -- since you were also helping to

collect evidence for an arson investigation, did you

have to package certain items in different ways than you

normally would?

A. Yes. There are a lot of considerations in a case

like this. We had evidence that was both wet, possibly

covered in accelerant and bloody. Generally speaking,

when you collect bloody evidence, you want to dry that

evidence to prevent any mold formation, which will

degrade the DNA. However, drying items that have

possible accelerant on them will dissipate those fumes

and make it difficult for fire investigators to

determine whether or not accelerant was used. There was

a lot of discussion between Investigator Lea, Detective

Stewart and myself, as well as Tarrant County Medical

Examiner's Office, which is the lab that we use, to

determine what the best course of action with that

packaging was.

Q. And it sounds like you used sort of a hybrid of

the traditional crime scene method versus the method

that's best for preserving evidence in an arson

investigation?

A. Correct. Generally speaking, arson evidence will

be packaged in paint cans, clean paint cans. They are

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great at sealing in fumes. If anybody's ever painted,

you know they're great at sealing in fumes once you

close them up. But sealing something that is bloody or

wet in a paint can is a very dangerous thing to do

because it's dark and it's airtight and you will degrade

your DNA very quickly. That's why we don't package

things in plastic, normally.

Q. After you collected these various items from the

scene, what did you do next?

A. The next step was to do an additional search and

to collect the doorknobs from the actual doors. I did

require assistance with this, especially with the front

door, which is a metal frame door. The fire department

did come out with their sawzall and assisted me in

removing the doorknobs, but they were then collected, as

well as searching the ground around the apartment for

any additional evidence which might be of note. That

included Dumpsters in the area and the wooded area

behind the apartment.

Q. What did you do after that?

A. After that -- during the time that I was doing

these things, Detective Stewart had had the Honda

belonging to Mechelle Gandy towed from the scene to be

secured in the seizure lot. So as I was intending to go

process that at the scene, I did not have any need to do

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that at the end. And so we then cleared the scene at

approximately 1:45 in the afternoon.

Q. And I believe you testified earlier that you got

there at 11:42?

A. The evening before, yes.

Q. So right at 14 hours?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that usual for you?

A. In a scene like this, yes.

Q. Did you do anything else involving the

investigation of the scene?

A. The scene, no. The vehicle, I was involved with

processing that at a later time.

Q. Once you physically leave the scene, for example

when you physically left this scene, did that

necessarily stop your role and your job in terms of

preservation and documenting evidence?

A. No. Once we get back to the lab, our job is

really only just halfway done, at best. The second

portion of my job is to document every item I collect in

the lab under strict conditions, lighting conditions.

It's much easier to document any nuances, as opposed to

being in a scene especially one like this where it's

dark and lighting conditions are very challenging.

So all of the evidence that was collected

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 133

was, again, redocumented in the lab and items that were

conducive to latent print processing were then

processed.

Q. And were there any items that met that criteria,

that were conducive?

A. There were. Would you like a list of them?

Q. Yes, ma'am.

A. I should state that before processing for latent

prints, I did take some swabs, using the same method as

discussed before, for potential serological or DNA

evidence from the flint wheels of the lighters, the

ridged grip caps of charcoal lighter fluid and an

unknown red stain which I noted on the wooden knife

block from the bar area.

After taking those samples, I then proceeded

with the processing. I processed the charcoal lighter

fluid bottles, all of the disposable lighters that I

collected, the beer can. I was able to collect ten

latent print cards from both of the charcoal lighter

bottles.

Q. And at the time -- once you collect latent

fingerprints -- and back then, were you a certified

fingerprint examiner?

A. I was not doing any independent latent print

casework. I was in training at that time.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 134

Q. So any latent print examination in this case

would have fallen to a different agency?

A. We do it in-house. I was in training with three

of our latent print examiners in our unit. They -- it

would have been handled by my unit, just not by me

personally.

Q. You stated earlier that at some point you were --

at some later day you were called out to process

Mechelle's Honda?

A. Correct.

Q. When was that?

A. That was on April 6th of 2011, at half past

midnight. Detective Stewart had requested that I

respond to the seizure lot, which is located at our main

police station, at 620 West Division Street, to document

and process her Honda.

Q. And if you could, walk us through what you did in

the processing of the Honda.

A. Photographs are first taken to depict the

condition of the vehicle in the seizure lot. The goal

of this is to notate any difference between its current

condition and the condition of it on scene on the date

that we responded, on the 20th of March. The vehicle is

then documented, the interior is documented and searched

for any items that seem to have potential evidentiary

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 135

value in the case.

Q. And is that what you did?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you -- what specifically did you collect from

the Honda?

A. I collected a box cutter from the passenger door,

some partially smoked cigarettes and empty box of

Marlboro cigarettes, another purse, a female's purse

with miscellaneous contents, paperwork and receipts,

some currency from inside that purse, $5.46, and some

additional clothing, a gray colored zip-up jacket, black

colored short-sleeved shirt and gray colored knit cap.

Q. Did you any -- do any other sort of processing of

the vehicle?

A. Did I process the vehicle for presence of latent

print evidence, as it wasn't known whether the vehicle

was involved in the incident at all. I did collect one

latent print from the interior of the driver's window.

Q. Anything else that you did involving the

processing of that -- the vehicle or items taken from

the vehicle?

A. No.

MS. RAY: May I approach the witness, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Yes, you may.

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Q. (BY MS. RAY) Investigator Fallentine, I am

showing you what has been marked as State's Exhibit 114,

115, 116, and 117. Could you take a look at those?

Are you familiar with what's depicted in

State's Exhibits 114 through 117, inclusive?

A. Yes.

Q. And the -- State's Exhibit 114 through 117,

inclusive, does it appear to be photographs that you

took during your processing of the Honda Civic?

A. Yes.

Q. And do they fairly and accurately depict the

condition or observations that you made of the Honda?

A. Yes, they do.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 114 through 117, inclusive, after tendering to

Defense Counsel for objection.

THE COURT: Fourteen through what?

MS. RAY: Seventeen.

THE COURT: Seventeen.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection, Judge.

THE COURT: All right. State's 114 and 115,

116 and 117, each admitted.

(State's Exhibit No. 114 - 117 admitted)

MS. RAY: And, Your Honor, permission to

publish State's Exhibit No. 114, 115, 116, and 117 via

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 137

the PowerPoint presentation?

THE COURT: That will be fine.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) State's Exhibit 114, what are we

looking at?

A. This is the white Honda belonging to Mechelle

Gandy and its location in the seizure lot at the main

police station.

Q. Now are there -- what precautions, if any, are

taken to, I guess, maintain the integrity of the

evidence?

A. Seals are supposed to be placed on the doors, the

hood and the trunk of all vehicles before they are

towed. But as I was not notified it was being towed,

those seals were not placed.

Q. So they towed it, towed the vehicle without

talking to you first?

A. Correct.

Q. Not the way you like things done?

A. No, ma'am.

Q. State's Exhibit 115, what are we looking at?

A. This is a photograph that was tucked into the

dashboard of the vehicle of the infant child, Asher.

Q. State's Exhibit 116, what are we looking at?

A. These are some of the items noted in the vehicle.

This is going to be in the rear of the car on the driver

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 138

and passenger side floorboard areas. This is the center

console here.

Q. And State's Exhibit 117, what are we looking at?

A. This is a Best Buy receipt from the interior of

the vehicle. Appears to be dated March 15th, 2011.

Q. And can you see where that Best Buy is located?

A. It says Number 148, Grapevine, Texas 76051,

possibly.

Q. Now, were there any items in the Honda that you

noted or observed that you did not collect?

A. There was some green leafy material similar in

consistency to marijuana, which I did locate in the

glove box of the car.

Q. And did you collect it?

A. No. As a matter of Arlington Police Department

policy, only uniformed sworn officers are to collect any

type of drugs, and I am a civilian.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, may I approach?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Discussion at the bench, off the record)

THE COURT: Members of the jury, you get a

stretch break while we reset the stage for the next act,

if you will. I'm trying not to use sports analogies all

the time.

All right. Everyone else, we'll have at

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 139

least a five- to eight-minute recess, minimum.

(Break taken, 3:10 - 4:15 p.m.)

(OPEN COURT, DEFENDANT AND JURY PRESENT)

(Witness on the stand)

THE COURT: On the record.

State, still your witness.

MS. RAY: Thank you, Your Honor.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Okay. Investigator Fallentine, I'm

showing you what has been marked as State's Exhibit

166-B, 166-A and 166. Are you familiar with what

State's Exhibit No. 166, 166-A and 166-B are?

A. Yes.

Q. And what are they?

A. May I see the packaging?

Q. Absolutely.

A. Okay. It is a swab sample from the lip of the

beer can collected from the living room floor, so the

Bud Light beer can collected from the floor in the

living room.

Q. And you recognize that because of your markings

on 166-B?

A. Correct. It's my label, my initial and my seal

on the back.

Q. And on 166-B do there appear to be markings from

other individuals?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 140

A. Yes. There is a Tarrant County Medical

Examiner's seal at the bottom of the bag.

Q. And on State's Exhibit No. 166-A, if you can also

look at that, does it also have your markings and

markings of any other individuals?

A. Yes. It has my initial, seals and the seals of

TCME.

Q. Other than the markings from other people

indicating subsequent testing, does State's Exhibit

No. 166, 166-A and 166-B appear to be in substantially

the same condition they were when you collected them on

March 20th, 2011?

A. Yes, except this was collected the 27th of March.

It's the swab from the beer can. The beer can itself

was collected on the 20th.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit No. 166 for all the purposes, 166-A and 166-B

for the record only, after tendering to Defense Counsel.

MS. KEENE: All right. Can I take the

witness on voir dire real quick, Judge?

THE COURT: Yes.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. All right. On 166 there's a number of different

initials in the back. Are one of those your initials?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 141

A. Yes, ma'am, at the top, my "SFR-2562".

Q. So any time we're going to see in the

next whatever number, "SFR", that's you?

A. That is me.

Q. So it's -- because it's the "Reeves"?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And then any other initials would be the

lab's, I presume?

A. Correct.

MS. KEENE: Okay. Judge, I don't have any

objection to any of the evidence that's tendered, 166-B

and A for purposes of the record and 166 for all

purposes.

THE COURT: All right. The item marked 166

is admitted for all purposes and 166-A and 166-B are

admitted for the record only.

(State's Exhibit No. 166, 166-A, 166-B

admitted)

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Investigator, I'm now showing you what has been

marked as State's Exhibit 167, 167-A and 167-B?

A. Okay.

Q. Have you seen these items before?

A. Yes, I have.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 142

Q. And where did you see these items?

A. This is a swab sample from the flint wheel of the

lighter collected from the patio table outside. This

was also collected on the 27th in the lab.

Q. And how do you recognize that these are the same

items that you collected and then swabbed?

A. The outer packaging has my label, my initials, my

original seal. The box labeled 167-A has my seal and

initials. And the item itself has my initials, the case

number, date, and time collected.

Q. Do you also see on State's Exhibit No. 167-B,

167-A and 167 other people's initials or markings?

A. I do.

Q. Other than those additional markings, are State's

Exhibit No. 167, 167-A and 167-B in the same condition

they were when you collected them on March 26th?

A. 27th.

Q. 27th.

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit No. 166 -- I'm sorry -- 167, 167-A and 167-B;

167 for all purposes, 167-A and 167-B for record

purposes only.

MS. KEENE: Judge, do you want me to look at

them and give them to you, as I have no objections?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 143

THE COURT: No, I'll -- no, as long as I can

see what you're talking about. If I can't, I'll walk

over and look.

(Pause in proceedings)

MS. KEENE: I have no objection to A and B

for purposes of the record and for 167 for all purposes.

THE COURT: So it's 167-A, 167-B and 167.

167-A and B are admitted for the record and 167 admitted

for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 167, 167-A, 167-B

admitted)

THE COURT: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Investigator, I'm now showing you

what's been marked as State's Exhibit 168, 168-A and

168-B. If you can, take a look at those.

A. Okay.

Q. And what are State's Exhibit 168-A, 168-B and

168?

A. These are packaging and the items swab sample

collected from the ridged top of the charcoal fluid

bottle, item SFR-40. This was the one inside the

charcoal bag outside Presidents Corner. Collected again

in the lab on the 27th of March.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on those?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 144

A. I do.

Q. And in addition to your markings, do you see

markings from other individuals?

A. I do.

Q. Other than those markings, are State's Exhibit

No. 168, 168-A and 168-B in the same condition they were

when you collected them on March 27th, 2011?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit No. 168, 168-A and 168-B, after tendering to

Defense Counsel.

MS. KEENE: May I take the witness on voir

dire, Judge?

THE COURT: Yes.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. On 168 it has actually a rip in it. Do you know

that -- how that rip or when that rip would have been

made?

A. That rip was made when we moved the sterile tip

applicators from the packaging. I then swab whatever

sample it is I'm swabbing and stick them back into the

paper for protection, for cotton tips.

Q. And then you put it into the box so that it's

secured?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 145

A. Correct. I don't want any breakage or anything.

If it didn't have the supported box inside the bag, it

could snap.

Q. So all the other ones had that, I just didn't

notice it?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay.

MS. KEENE: Judge, I have no objection to

168 for all purposes and A and B for purposes of the

record.

THE COURT: All right. State's 168-A, 168-B

admitted for the record and State's 168 admitted for all

purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 168, 168-A, 168-B

admitted)

THE WITNESS: If I may, as an aside, when

the lab does the testing, they also may break through

the paper to remove those applicators from that

packaging. If you'll notice the edge on that had a red

piece of tape and a seal with my initials. That would

have been my initial tearing into that packaging and

resealing. That rip that we looked at there was made by

whoever tested that item.

MS. KEENE: Okay. Then, Judge, I do -- I

would object to that until someone explains the rip

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 146

and what it is. So it can be contingent on tying it up

to whoever would have caused that hole or that rip in

that swab.

MS. RAY: Your Honor --

MS. KEENE: If that makes sense.

THE COURT: I hear what you're saying.

So, for the record, you're talking about

where the tear -- where it looks like the stem has poked

a hole in the outside of the paper on 168; is that

the --

MS. KEENE: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: -- is what we're talking about?

MS. KEENE: Yes.

THE COURT: Is that what you were talking

about?

MS. KEENE: Yes.

THE WITNESS: Correct, Judge. This is where

I opened it and I resealed it after I had inserted it

back into the paper. This is most likely going to be

how they removed it at the lab for testing purposes, but

until you have someone to testify to that, I do not

recognize the rip.

THE COURT: When put your seal on it, there

was no hole in it?

THE WITNESS: Correct.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 147

THE COURT: All right. I see what you're

saying.

All right. What's your legal objection?

MS. KEENE: Chain of custody, Judge, that at

this point the proper chain of custody -- this evidence

is not in the same condition as she submitted it.

THE COURT: Do you have a witness you expect

to testify about that exhibit?

MS. RAY: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Then I will admit it

under 104. I'll conditionally admit it, subject to an

explanation of the tear or if it does or does not affect

the chain of custody --

MS. KEENE: Thank you, Judge.

THE COURT: -- based upon what the

subsequent witness says.

(State's Exhibit No. 168, 168-A, 168-B

admitted)

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. And, Investigator Fallentine, I'm showing you

what's been marked as State's Exhibit No. 169, 169-A and

169-B. If you'd take a look at those items.

And are you familiar with those items?

A. Yes, I am.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 148

Q. How are you familiar with those items?

A. This is an apparent blood swab sample taken from

the wall and baseboard near the western corner of the

front door, evidence marker 24, taken on the 21st at the

scene.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on State's

Exhibit No. 169, 169-A and 169-B?

A. Yes.

Q. Other -- do you notice markings from other

individuals?

A. Yes.

Q. Other than those markings from other individuals,

do State's Exhibits 169, 169-A and 169-B appear to be in

the same condition they were when you collected them on

March 27th, 2011?

A. March 21st. And, yes, they do.

Q. I'm not going to get this right.

They do seem to be in the same condition?

A. Yes, ma'am.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit No. 169, 169-A -- I'm sorry -- 169 for all

purposes, 169-A for the record and 169-B for the record.

MS. KEENE: No objection to 169-B and A for

purposes of the record and 169 for purposes, Judge.

THE COURT: All right. State's 169-A,

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 149

169-B, admitted for the record only; 169, admitted for

all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 169, 169-A, 169-B

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) I'm now showing you what has been

marked as State's Exhibit 170, and State's Exhibit 170-A

and State's Exhibit 170-B. Would you take a look at

these items?

A. Okay.

Q. And are you familiar with those items?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. And how is it you're familiar with them?

A. These are swab samples from the flint wheel of

the lighter collected from the living room floor. Item

SFR-16. These swabs were collected in the lab on the

27th of March.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. I do.

Q. And do you see markings of other individuals?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings of other individuals,

does State's Exhibit No. 170, 170-A and 170-B appear to

be in the same condition they were when you collected

them on March 27, 2011?

A. Yes, they do.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 150

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit No. 170 for all purposes, 170-A and 170-B for

purposes of the record.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection to State's

Exhibit 170 for all purposes and I have no objection to

170-A and B for purposes of the record.

THE COURT: All right. State's 170-A,

170-B, admitted for the record; State's 170, admitted

for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 170, 170-A, 170-B

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Now showing you what has been

marked as State's Exhibit No. 171, 171-A, and 171-B. If

you could, take a look at those items.

And what are items 171, 171-A and 171-B?

A. Packaging and the two sets of control swabs that

I collected on scene, March 21st, 2011.

Q. And what are control swabs?

A. Control swabs are used to -- by the lab to

determine whether or not there's any contamination on

the items I'm using to collect the evidence. So what I

will do is leave one set unopened in its factory seal

and go ahead and add distilled water to the other set,

but not swab any evidence with it, just leave it in its

pristine condition for the lab to make sure there's no

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 151

contamination.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on State's

Exhibit 171, 171-A and 171-B?

A. Yes.

Q. And does State's Exhibit 171, 171-A and 171-B

appear to be in the same condition they were when you

packaged them?

A. Yes.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer 171, 170 --

I'm sorry -- 171 for all purposes and 171-A and 171-B

for purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection to 171-A for

purposes of the record, 171-B for purposes of the record

and 171 for all purposes.

THE COURT: All right. State's 171-A and

171-B are admitted for the record. State's 171 is

admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 171, 171-A, 171-B

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) I'm now showing you what has been

marked as State's Exhibit 172, 172-A and 172-B. If you

can take a look at these items?

And what is State's Exhibit No. 172, 172-A

and 172-B?

A. Packaging and swabs of the unknown red stain from

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 152

the bottom front edge of the knife block, which was

SFR-36. This item was collected March 26th, 2011, in

the lab.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. I do.

Q. And do you see markings of other people?

A. I do.

Q. Other than the markings of other people, are

State's Exhibit No. 172, 172-A and 172-B in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 172 for all purposes and State's Exhibit

No. 172-A and 172-B for the record only.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection to 172-A or

B for purposes of the record and no objection to 172 for

all purposes.

THE COURT: State's 172-A, 172-B, admitted

for the record; State's 172, admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 172, 172-A, 172-B

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) I'm now showing you what's been

marked as State's Exhibit No. 173, 173-A and 173-B. If

you would take a look at these items?

A. Okay.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 153

Q. And what are State's Exhibits 173, 173-A and

173-B?

A. Packaging, as well as apparent blood swabs from

evidence marker 27, which would be the floor just inside

the entryway to the apartment, south of the front door,

collected March 21st, 2011, on scene.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on those

exhibits?

A. I do.

Q. Do you recognize -- or see markings from other

people?

A. I do.

Q. Other than the markings from other people, do

you -- are State's Exhibits 173, 173-A and 173-B in the

same condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Other than the box being torn, exterior box,

otherwise, yes.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I would offer State's

Exhibits 173 for all purposes and 173-A and 173-B for

the purposes of the record.

MS. KEENE: Judge, may I take the witness on

voir dire briefly?

THE COURT: Yes.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 154

Q. You said other than the box being torn. And we

can see in 173-A that the corner of the box is

compromised.

A. Yes. That does sometime happen when people are

opening it after it's been initially sealed.

Q. Would you have placed 173 in a box that was

compromised such as this?

A. No. If I had used that box, I would have taped

that broken corner and initialed it.

Q. Okay. So as far as whenever you put 173 into

173-A, it was a box that was not broken?

A. Correct.

Q. And it was broken after you basically sealed this

box?

A. Correct.

MS. KEENE: And, Judge, really, I have --

let me look at -- hang on. I have no objection to this

as long as they tie up any idea of who or when the boxes

could have been compromised, as far as for chain of

custody purposes, without a seal.

(Discussion off the record)

THE COURT: I will -- so you'd like it

conditionally admitted until the witness who opened it

testifies; is that what you're asking?

MS. KEENE: I wonder if someone from the lab

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 155

could give us an idea how that could have been broken.

THE COURT: I mean, if you have an objection

pending that explanation, I will only conditionally

admit it under Rule 104, pending an explanation of the

box.

MS. KEENE: Okay. We'll see. And after --

THE COURT: And that's one, that's a

conditionally admit, 173 and 173-A and B are admitted

for the record only. You have no objection to that?

MS. KEENE: No objection at all.

MS. RAY: Wait, just so I understand,

State's 173 does not have a rip, so that is being --

THE COURT: I'm conditionally admitting 173

pending it being connected, what happens next under Rule

104, but I'm admitting the packaging containers for the

record only.

MS. KEENE: Thank you, Judge.

(State's Exhibit No. 173, 173-A, 173-B

admitted)

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. I'm now showing you what has been marked as

State's Exhibit 174, 174-A and 174-B. If you could,

take a look at those items.

And what are State's Exhibits 174, 174-A and

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 156

174-B?

A. Packaging and apparent blood swabs taken from the

wall opposite the front door at evidence marker 25, on

March 21st, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on these

exhibits?

A. I do.

Q. And then do you notice markings from other

individuals?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings from other individuals,

are State's Exhibit 174, 174-A and 174-B in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 174 for all purposes, 174-A and 174-B for

purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: Can I take the witness on voir

dire, Judge?

THE COURT: Yes, you may.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. All right. In 174 itself it appears to be open

on the side, the packaging on the side?

A. Yes.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 157

Q. Is that the condition that would you have put it

in?

A. Yes. Because when I open these, they are

slightly open on one edge. So you peel the paper back,

remove the swabs, use them, stick them back in, seal

that flap.

Q. Okay. What about that -- it doesn't matter about

the side being open like that?

A. It does not because the box is also sealed, the

tape and my initials. The bag is also sealed and taped

and my initials and that means --

Q. So you have no concern about this being

compromised at all?

A. I do not, no.

Q. State's Exhibit 174.

MS. KEENE: Then I have no objection, Judge.

THE COURT: All right. To any of them --

MS. KEENE: As offered.

THE COURT: -- as offered?

MS. KEENE: Exactly, as offered.

THE COURT: All right. State's 174-A,

174-B, admitted for the record; 174, admitted for all

purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 174, 174-A, 174-B

admitted)

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 158

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. I am now showing you what has been marked as

State's Exhibit 175, 175-A and 175-B. Take a look at

these items?

And what are State's Exhibits 175, 175-A and

175-B?

A. Packaging and apparent blood swabs from evidence

marker number 30, which was the top of the cabinet door

and range hood part of the oven in the kitchen area,

collected March 21st, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. I do.

Q. Do you see markings from other people?

A. I do.

Q. Other than the markings from other people, do

State's Exhibit 175, 175-A and 175-B appear to be in the

same condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they do.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 175 for all purposes and 175-A and 175-B for

purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection, Judge,

to -- as offered.

THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 175-A,

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 159

175-B, admitted for record; 175, State's exhibits,

admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 175, 175-A, 175-B

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) I'm now showing you what's been

marked as State's Exhibit 176, 176-A and 176-B. Can you

take a look at those items?

What are State's Exhibits 176, 176-A and

176-B?

A. Packaging and swab sample, flint wheel of the

lighter, collected from the kitchen counter, item

SFR-35. These were collected in the lab on March 27th.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. I do.

Q. And do you see markings from other individuals?

A. I do.

Q. Other than the markings from other individuals,

are State's Exhibits 176, 176-A and 176-B in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Again, we have an issue with the box, but yes.

Q. The box, 176-A?

A. Yes.

Q. But other than that, same condition?

A. Yes.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 160

Exhibit No. 176 for all purposes, 176-A and 176-B for

purposes of the record.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. And as far as for the same box, we're just

talking about the -- where the box compromise is?

A. Yes.

Q. And would you not have -- you would have solved

the compromise if you had done this, if you would have

made it?

A. Correct. It has happened to me before. I can

show you how it happened, if you would like. We can...

Q. Right. So it's not uncommon for these boxes to

do that when you open them up and shut them?

A. Mostly when you shut them. If you place the one

on top flat, it prohibits that from happening. If you

come in at an angle, you're forcing that one side out.

And when you force it out, it will split on the seam.

Q. But -- okay. But as far as whenever you sealed

this, it was not that way?

A. Correct.

MS. KEENE: Judge, then I have the same --

I don't have an objection as long as it is tied up. So

it will be a conditional admission of 176, no objection

to 176-A and B.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 161

THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 176 is

conditionally admitted under Rule 104 and 176-A and B

are admitted for all purposes, all State's exhibits -- I

mean -- for the record only.

(State's Exhibit No. 176, 176-A, 176-B

admitted)

THE COURT: "All purposes" and "for the

record only," members of the jury, this sounds like

lawyer talk. For the record means it's for storage.

For all purposes means for the jury to consider as they

see fit in connection with all the other evidence. So

that's not some magic language. The law requires some

things to be stored and some things for the jury's use,

so don't get hung up with all that, especially having

heard it so many times.

Does everyone understand?

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. You may continue.

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Investigator Fallentine, I'm now showing you

what's been marked as State's Exhibit 177, 177-A and

177-B. What are State's Exhibits 177, 177-A and 177-B?

A. Packaging and apparent blood swabs taken from

evidence marker 32, which was the large pool of the

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 162

blood on the kitchen floor, taken March 21st, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Do you see markings belonging to other

individuals?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings made by other people, are

State's Exhibits 177, 177-A and 177-B in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 177 for all purposes and 177-A and 177-B for the

record only.

MS. KEENE: No objection as offered, Judge.

THE COURT: Exhibits 177-A, 177-B, State's

exhibits, admitted for the record; State's 177, admitted

for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 177, 177-A, 177-B

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) I'm now showing you what's been

marked as State's Exhibit 178, 178-A and 178-B. What

are State's Exhibits 178, 178-A and 178-B?

A. Packaging and apparent blood swabs from the

northeast side of the bar, the wall and the baseboard,

evidence marker 41, collected March 21st, 2011.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 163

Q. Do you recognize your markings?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do you see markings belonging to other

people?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the other markings belonging to other

people, are State's Exhibits 178, 178-A and 178-B in the

same condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 178 for all purposes and 178-A and 178-B for

purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: No objection to 178-B or A for

purposes of the record and no objection to 178 for all

purposes.

THE COURT: All right. State's 178-A and

State's 178-B admitted for the record. State's 178

admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 178, 178-A, 178-B

admitted)

THE COURT: Members of the jury, do me a

favor. Everyone just kind of stand up and stretch.

(Pause in proceedings)

THE COURT: Back on the record.

Ms. Ray, you may continue.

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 164

MS. RAY: Thank you, Judge.

Q. (BY MS. RAY) Investigator Fallentine, I'm now

showing you what has been marked as State's Exhibit 179,

179-A and 179-B. What are State's Exhibits 179, 179-A

and 179-B?

A. Packaging and apparent blood spots from evidence

marker 31, which is the lower tier cabinet drawer and

drawer face, which was north of the oven, collected

March, 21st, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do you see markings belonging to other

people?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings belonging to other

people, are State's Exhibits 179, 179-A and 179-B in the

same condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit No. 179 for all purposes, 179-A and 179-B for

the purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: No objection as offered, Judge.

THE COURT: State's 179-A, 179-B, admitted

for the record; State's 179, admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 179, 179-A, 179-B

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 165

admitted)

Q. (BY MS. RAY) And I'm now showing you what's been

marked as State's Exhibit 180, 180-A and 180-B.

What are these items?

A. Packaging and apparent blood swabs taken from

marker 29, closet door and the door frame that was east

of the front door, collected March 21st 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do you see markings belonging to other

people?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings from other people, are

State's Exhibits 180, 180-A and 180-B in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 180 for all purposes, 180-A and 180-B for

purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: No objection to 180-B or A for

purpose of the record and 180 for all purposes.

THE COURT: State's 180-A and B, admitted

for the record; State's 180, admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 180, 180-A, 180-B

admitted)

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 166

Q. (BY MS. RAY) I'm now showing you what has been

marked as State's Exhibits 181, 181-A and 181-B.

And what are State's Exhibits 181, 181-A and

181-B?

A. These are another set of control swabs. These

were collected in the CSU lab on March 27th, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do -- are State's Exhibit 181, 181-A and

181-B in the same condition they were when you packaged

them?

A. Yes, with the exception of the small tear in the

outer bag.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 181, 181-A and 181-B, after tendering to

Defense -- sorry -- 181 for all purposes, 181-A and

181-B for purposes of the record.

MS. KEENE: Can I take this witness on voir

dire, Judge?

THE COURT: Yes.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. You talked about the tear in 181-B. Does that

cause you any concern about 181-A and B being

compromised?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 167

A. No, because the box appears to have the original

seal and to not be compromised.

Q. Okay. So because of 181-A being sealed and no

problems with it, it doesn't cause you concern?

A. Correct. I used the bags so that the property

room can keep track of things easier. The boxes are

small.

MS. KEENE: All right. I have no objection

then, Judge.

THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 181-A,

181-B, admitted for the record; 181 -- all State's

Exhibits -- admitted for all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 181, 181-A, 181-B

admitted)

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Okay. I'm now showing you what's been marked as

State's Exhibit 182, 182-A and 182-B?

What are 182, 182-A and 182-B?

A. Packaging for a swab sample taken from the ridged

grip area of the top cap of charcoal lighter fluid

bottle, SFR-41. This is the one we saw on the ground

outside of the grill and charcoal bag. These swabs were

collected in the lab March 27th, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on them?

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 168

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do you see markings belonging to other

people?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings belonging to other

people, are State's Exhibits 182, 182-A and 182-B in the

same condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Again, we have a slight rip in the exterior bag,

but yes, otherwise they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 182 for all purposes and 182-A and 182-B for

purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: Judge, may I take her on voir

dire real quick?

THE COURT: Go ahead.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. All of these exhibits you and the prosecutor and

the court reporter opened prior to coming in today?

A. Correct.

Q. And that was actually today during the lunch

break, or during the break?

A. I was not present for all of that. I did eat

lunch.

Q. Okay. So would -- do you feel like they --

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 169

there's no compromise on any of these, though?

A. Not in my opinion, no.

Q. And that's the same question as in 182?

A. I'm sorry?

Q. I mean -- I'm sorry. Yeah, 182 had the --

THE COURT: 182 what?

MS. KEENE: 182-B. Correct, Judge.

Q. (BY MS. KEENE) State's 182-B had the hole in the

bag. You don't have any concern about the integrity of

182 because of the hole in the bag?

A. Correct, no.

MS. KEENE: I don't have any objection,

Judge, to them as offered.

THE COURT: All right. State's 182-A and B,

each admitted for the record; State's 182, admitted for

all purposes.

(State's Exhibit No. 182, 182-A, 182-B

admitted)

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. I'm now showing you what's been marked as State's

Exhibit 183, 183-A and 183-B.

And what are State's Exhibit 183, 183-A and

183-B?

A. It is packaging and apparent blood swabs from the

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STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 170

side of the cardboard box that was beneath the desk in

the living room, collected March 21st, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do you see markings of other people?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings of other people, are

State's Exhibits 183, 183-A and 183-B in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 183 for all purposes, 183-A and 183-B for

purposes of the record only.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection to 183-A or

B for purposes of the record and 183-A for all purposes.

THE COURT: You mean plain 183 for all

purposes?

MS. KEENE: Yes, sir. No objection.

THE COURT: All right. State's 183,

admitted for all purposes; State's 183-A and 183-B,

admitted for the record.

(State's Exhibit No. 183, 183-A, 183-B

admitted)

MR. MOORE: Judge, for the record, does that

have an evidence marking number or an SFR number?

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 171

THE WITNESS: The item itself SFR --

THE COURT: Time out. Do you want to ask

that question, Ms. Keene?

MS. KEENE: I can ask that question.

THE COURT: You can, since it's your

witness.

MS. KEENE: We do sit next to each other.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

Q. Does that -- can you tell us if that has an SFR

number, along with the evidence number?

A. Yes. It's item SFR-15 and it was taken at

evidence marker 14.

Q. And could you do that each time we talk about the

exhibits --

A. Yes.

Q. -- so we don't have to interrupt?

Thank you.

THE COURT: Off the record.

(Discussion off the record)

THE COURT: Back on the record.

Then still your witness.

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUES

BY MS. RAY:

Q. Okay. I'm showing you what has been marked as

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 172

State's Exhibit 184 and 184-A. If you can take a look

at these items?

And what are State's Exhibits 184 and 184-A?

A. It is item SFR-22, the Bud Light beer can, that

was located at evidence marker 21, on the living room

floor beneath the end table, and packaging. It was

collected March 21st, 2011.

Q. And do you recognize your markings on State's

Exhibit 184 and 184-A?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And do you see markings belonging to other

people?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Other than the markings belonging to other

people, are State's Exhibit 184 and 184-A in the same

condition they were when you packaged them?

A. Yes, they are.

MS. RAY: Your Honor, I offer State's

Exhibit 184 for all purposes and 184-A, after tendering

to Defense Counsel, 184-A for the record only.

MS. KEENE: Can I take the witness on voir

dire?

THE COURT: Yes, you may.

VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION

BY MS. KEENE:

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 173

Q. Did you find -- there's a white package that's

contained inside the 184 marker.

A. Yes.

Q. Was that found at the scene?

A. No. That's laboratory paper that I used to

package the can in case the exterior bag was to rip, as

we saw in some of the other cases. I like to try to put

a barrier.

Q. Okay. So you double-packaged it?

A. I do, yes.

Q. Is there any writing on the white packaging?

A. Yes, I can see it through the corner.

Q. Okay. But is there any writing other than your

initials?

A. Should be tape and my initials on it.

Q. None of other things like what's on 184-A?

A. No.

Q. And is this SFR-57?

A. It's SFR-22.

Q. Okay. SFR-22.

MS. KEENE: I have no objection to 184 for

all purposes and 184-A for purposes of the record.

THE COURT: State's 184 is actually a Ziploc

bag. It is -- the contents are what's being offered?

MS. RAY: Yes, Your Honor.

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 174

THE COURT: All right. And the bag it came

in is what's offered as 184-A for the record only?

MS. RAY: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. All right. Then

184, the Ziploc bag and specifically the contents, are

admitted. State's 184-A is admitted, the storage bag,

for the record only.

(State's Exhibit No. 184, 184-A admitted)

THE COURT: What the record -- lawyers refer

to as the storage bag. Jury, you decide what anything

is, not what I say. This is for her.

Everyone remember that?

SEVERAL JURY MEMBERS: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. Let's take a short

recess.

(Discussion off the record)

THE COURT: On the record.

We will take our recess for the evening.

And tomorrow morning same time, same channel, be at your

pickup point.

If you'll be back here about ten till 9:00,

unless either side needs you here earlier, as long as

you're here by ten till 9:00, you'll be good.

On and off the record, I hope we do get a

lot of rain, but if we do, y'all be careful coming in,

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OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 175

because the roads are used to it. If it rains long

enough tonight, it will be fine. If it starts raining

right when we get ready to come here, it will be slick.

So y'all be careful. Thank you for a long day. Get a

good night's sleep. Don't forget your blue card. See

you in the morning.

Sheriff, escort the jury to the jury room.

Everyone remain in the courtroom until the

jury's cleared the elevator.

(Recessed for the day at 5:20 p.m.)

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KAREN B. MARTINEZ

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

STATE v. THOMAS OLIVAS 176

COURT REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

THE STATE OF TEXAS )

COUNTY OF TARRANT )

I, Karen B. Martinez, Official Court Reporter in and

for the 372nd District Court of Tarrant County, State of

Texas, do hereby certify that the above and foregoing

contains a true and correct transcription of all

portions of evidence and other proceedings requested in

writing by counsel for the parties to be included in

this volume of the Reporter's Record, in the

above-styled and numbered cause, all of which occurred

in open court or in chambers and were reported by me.

I further certify that this Reporter's Record of the

proceedings truly and correctly reflects the exhibits,

if any, admitted by the respective parties.

I further certify that the total cost for the

preparation of this Reporter's Record is located at the

end of Volume 21.

WITNESS MY OFFICIAL HAND this the 30th day of March,

2015.

/s/ Karen B. Martinez 

Karen B. Martinez, Texas CSR 6735

Expiration Date: 12/31/2015

Official Court Reporter

372nd District Court

Tarrant County, Texas

(817)884-2996

kbmartinez@tarrantcounty.com

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