OFFICE OF HEARINGS 1 2 3 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

4 In the matter of: •.**~ ~** **~**

5 MACH ONE AIR CHARTERS, INC., No. FAA-2015-0643 6 ------------------------------) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 TELEPHONIC PRETRIAL CONFERENCE
Tuesday, August 23, 2016 1:00 p.m. The Honorable Douglas M. Rawald Administrative Law Judge

15 ON BEHALF OF THE FAA: 16 GLENN H. BROWN, ESQ. 17 18 ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT: 19 STEVEN L. GRAFF, ESQ. 20 21 22 23 24 Reported telephonically by: 25 Karen Guy, CER2 

### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016

1 2 3 4 P R0 CE E D I N GS
(1:30 p.m.) JUDGE RAWALD: This is the prehearing conference 5 in the case of Mach One Air Charters, Incorporated, 6 Docket Number FAA-2015-0643. Today's date August 22nd, 7 2016, and it's 1:00 p.m. eastern time. This is 8 Administrative Law Judge Doug Rawald. I'mjoined on the 9 call by Government counsel Glenn Brown and Respondent's 10 counsel Steven Graff. 11 In terms ofwhat you folks are -- yes, sir? 12 MR. GRAFF: Just I'll note for the record to 13 indicate this is Steven Graff, I am present here at the 14 conference. 15 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And let's go ahead and 16 we'll put on the-- we'll go ahead and turn toMr. Brown 17 first. Sir, we asked for discovery to be completed as 18 of August 9th. That's the day I ordered discovery 19 completed. Is discovery completed in your mind? 20 21 MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Graff, do you agree? 22 Mr. Graff, do you agree that discovery is completed? 23 MR. GRAFF: Yes. I'm sorry, Your Honor, can 24 you -- is it a bad connection? 25 JUDGE RAWALD: I just didn't hear you when you


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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc.
1 responded. Okay, so you do agree discovery is 2 completed. Wonderful. 3 

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3 And the parties both agree there are no pending 4 motions waiting for me to rule upon. That's right, Mr. 5 Brown? 6 7 8 9 MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: AndMr. Graff? MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Andbased upon discovery as it 10 was completed, does either partyhave a desire to file 11 any discoverymotions, or do you feel that there's no 12 reason to do that? Mr. Brown? 13 MR. BROWN: I have no reason to do that, Your 14 Honor. 15 16 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. AndMr. Graff? MR. GRAFF: I have no reason to do that either, 17 Your Honor. 18 JUDGE RAWALD: Great. Let's turn to the 19 question of venue, then. As I understand it, this case 20 was slated to be heard and where the Government has 21 requested it to be heard, in St. Louis

-- St. Paul, 22 excuse me. So, is that right, Mr. Brown? 23 24 MR. BROWN: That is correct, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And why do you folks want 25 to have the hearing in St. Paul?



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### TelephonicPreheoringConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 MR. BROWN: Well, Your Honor, I think it's 2 forme, for the agency, it is because that's where 3 basicallythe incident occurred, and our principal 4 witnesses are located, and so it would certainlybe a 5 very large inconvenience to these folks who are, of 6 course, working a business, a repair station, to have to 7 travel somewhere to testify about something that 8 happenedbasically at their facility. 9 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And how many witnesses are 10 there that you would think you wouldbring from St. Paul 11 to some place else ifwe were going to have to move the 12 hearing to some place else? 13 MR. BROWN: Well, from St. Paul, there are 14 three, and there's also a witness, at least one witness 15 from Houston, Texas. 16 JUDGE RAWALD: And any otherpeople we need to 17 be concerned about, or those are the four witnesses you 18 plan on calling at the moment? 19 MR. BROWN: Those are the

-- well, there's 20 actually the inspector, I also need to call him. He 21 actuallyresides in Riverside, California. In that 22 area, at least. 23 JUDGE RAWALD: So, no matter what, the 24 Government has to fly some people somewhere, it'sjust a 25 question of howmanypeople are going to be



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc.
1 inconveniencedby this hearing? MR. BROWN: Right. 5 

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2 3 JUDGE RAWALD: And your position is those three 4 witnesses will be the most inconveniencedbymoving it, 5 so that the Government requests to have it in St. Paul. 6 You wouldbe coming fromAlaska yourself, so that no 7 matter, no place is convenient, unless it's inAlaska, 8 to you, I imagine. 9 MR. BROWN: Traveling is no inconvenience tome, 10 Your Honor. 11 12 JUDGE RAWALD: Understood, Mr. Brown. Okay. So, Mr. Graff, I understand you folks want to 13 have the hearing in Los Angeles. Why is that? 14 MR. GRAFF: Well, Your Honor, let's start with 15 the fact that I probably have five witnesses here in the 16 Los Angeles area. This is where my client's business 17 is, number one. Number two, with respect to the three 18 witnesses referencedby Government counsel in St. Paul, 19 we've taken their deposition, andMr. Brown was present 20 at the deposition. There's no need to have them travel, 21 we can use their depositions at time of trial. They 22 were all under oath. 23 I don't want to get into the substance of it, 24 but as a result of those depositions, the companion 25 cases that were pending before the NTSB were dismissed.



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 I don't think that those witnesses will add anything to 2 this matter. So, there's reallyno need to have them 3 travel to LA in order for this case to be

-- if it were 4 to be tried

-- the venue were to be set in St. Paul, I 5 mean, my client would endure a phenomenal expense in 6 transporting all the witnesses there, as there's really 7 no need, because one of the witnesses that we're going 8 to call, who is one of the Government inspectors, in 9 fact, is here in Southern California. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And you yourself, Mr. 11 Graff, where are you located? 12 MR. GRAFF: I'm in Southern California, Your 13 Honor. 14 JUDGE RAWALD: And your clients themselves, they 15 also are there with you in Los Angeles, the Los Angeles 16 area? 17 MR. GRAFF: SouthernCalifornia, correct, Your 18 Honor. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: You keep saying Southern 20 California rather than Los Angeles. So, Southern 21 Californiabeingmuch more broad than Los Angeles, there 22 is a place you prefer to Los Angeles, or is Los Angeles 23 the place that you prefer in Southern California? 24 MR. GRAFF: Okay, let me give you -- obviously 25 you're aware of Southern California. My office is in



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 Temecula, which is southern Riverside County. My client 2 is in Chino, California, which is east of Los Angeles. 3 The Riverside Flight Standard District Office, where one 4 of the inspectors comes from, is in Riverside, 5 California. 6 JUDGE RAWALD: So, all these folks will be able 7 to commute from their home to the courthouse in Los 8 Angeles if the case is to be heard in Los Angeles, 9 however? 10 MR. GRAFF: There shouldn't be any problem with 11 anybody getting in a car. 12 JUDGE RAWALD: And they wouldn't have to incur 13 any hotel expenses, they would stay at horne at night 14 from the courthouse? 15 MR. GRAFF: Well, it all depends. If the 16 hearing is set for, let's say, you know, 8:00 or 9:00 in 17 downtown Los Angeles, to get to downtown LA is just, you 18 know, is going to take hours. I mean, I would 19 virtually, for my own benefit, get a hotel room down 20 there rather than commute in the morning. 21 22 23 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. MR. GRAFF: But that's really a non-issue. JUDGE RAWALD: And is there a federal courthouse 24 that's closer to the parties, then, are you aware of 25 that, or is Los Angeles the closest federal courthouse



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 that you're aware of? 2 MR. GRAFF: I know that there's a federal 3 courthouse

-- well, pardonme, a federal

-- well, 4 there's a federal courthouse, a federal bankruptcy 5 courthouse in Riverside, California. And that's close 6 to, you know, to the parties. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: All right. I'mlooking that up 8 on the Google here as we're talking so I can have an 9 understanding of what we're talking about. 10 MR. GRAFF: Also, letme suggest something. 11 you're looking for a location, Riverside Countyhas aIf

12 beautiful county courthouse, and, you know, I know that 13 some of the courtrooms are not used all the time. So, 14 there's a possibilitythat theywould cooperate with the 15 Federal Government in terms of the use of their 16 facility. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: Well, I do see here that there's 18 a district courthouse in Riverside. There's a district 19 court, there's a bankruptcy court, as well as the court 20 you talked about from the county there available as 21 well. So, it seems like Riverside wouldbe preferred 22 rather than LA. Is that correct, sir? 23 24 MR. GRAFF: Oh, absolutely, yes. JUDGE RAWALD: And for your client as well, that 25 wouldbe better for them?



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 2 MR. GRAFF: Absolutely. JUDGE RAWALD: And that would accommodate at 3 least one of those Government witnesses, it would 4 inconvenience the other three who are in St. Paul. 5 Okay, so I'll put in the report that you actually asked 6 for Riverside, California, rather than Los Angeles. 7 8 MR. GRAFF: That would be fine. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And I will compare this 9 further once I look at the issue more. I do want to 10 consider everyone's needs here, andmake sure I'vemade 11 the right choice. So, we will put this under advisement 12 for future purposes. 13 So, Mr. Brown, any other thoughts on Riverside, 14 California? 15 MR. BROWN: Well, I do want to comment on Mr. 16 Graff's statement. The rules don't allow us to use 17 depositions in-- 18 JUDGE RAWALD: No, and I'll add, Mr. Brown, I'm 19 not going to consider that point for making a decision. 20 Frankly, he can't dictate how you're going to try your 21 case, period. So, if you want to call witnesses, you're 22 going to call witnesses, and so I'm not going tomake my 23 venue choices on whether or not those people don't 24 necessarily need to be called to make your case. 25 MR. BROWN: And obviously if it's going to be in

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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 Southern California, Riverside certainly is better for 2 us than inLos Angeles. 3 JUDGE RAWALD: You know, LA seems to be like a 4 nonstarter. Once he said that would be a couple of hour 5 drive, I think if Riverside is convenient to all 6 parties, it's reallyRiverside versus St. Paul. And, 7 so, that's what I'll look at here. So, okay. Anything 8 else on the issue, Mr. Brown? 9 10 MR. BROWN: No, Your Honor. MR. GRAFF: No, Your Honor. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: And that's Mr. Brown andMr. 12 Graff both saying no, so let's turn to a litigation 13 schedule, then. The parties propose a schedule, which 14 we have passedby on the part ofmy actions. So, when 15 do folks want to be filingmotions by? Now that you 16 have your discovery, have had a chance to review it, if 17 you have anymotions you want to file, what's the 18 deadline for that? 19 Mr. Brown, what do you think wouldbe a deadline 20 for filing motions for you? 21 MR. BROWN: At this point, I'mnot seeing any, 22 so I guess it's --it doesn'tmatter tome. 23 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, Mr. Graff, how about 24 you? 25 MR. GRAFF: Your Honor, I maybe filing a motion

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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 for summaryjudgment. 2 3 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. MR. GRAFF: So, I unfortunately don't have the 4 rules right in front of me, but in terms of time for, 5 you know, obviously for me to prepare the motion and 6 then for the Government to respond, and then a reply, 7 you know, ifpermitted, you know, whatever that time 8 period is. 9 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Well, we'll go ahead and set up that schedule, then, today. I mean, we can I have my 11 rules here and can override what's in the book as far as 12 time goes. So, for the purposes of the motion, when do 13 you want to file that by? Is October 1st sufficient 14 time for you to get that motion in? 15 16 MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Brown, is that amenable 17 to you to have him file it by October 1st? 18 19 MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, and then, Mr. Brown, if I 20 give you 30 days, as I typically do to respond to 21 motions, is that sufficient time for you? 22 23 MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Brown, just for your 24 understanding, what I typically do is require 30 days 25 after the filing of those, and so if he files it early,



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1 Mr. Brown's clock will run from the day you file it, not 2 from the date of October 1st; understood? 3 MR. BROWN: Oh, understood and acceptable, no 

### 4 problem. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And then once we go ahead 6 and reserve a date for arguing that, the summary 7 judgmentmotion, that wouldbe something I would want to 8 hear argument on, if the parties wanted to have argument 9 on it. So, if you can pull out your November calendars, 10 because that wouldbe most convenient. 11 So, is November

-- Mr. Brown, I have a motion 12 hearing actually inWood ValleyNovember 15th. Is 13 November 17th amenable or is that too soon for you, Mr. 14 Brown, after the other motion argument? 15 MR. BROWN: I don't think it would be too soon, 16 Your Honor, so the 17th shouldbe fine. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Graff, would November 18 17thwork as a date for you for holding for the motion 19 argument if we had one? 20 MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor. I'mlooking at the 21 calendar, that's a Thursday, correct? 22 23 24 date. 25 JUDGE RAWALD: It is. MR. GRAFF: Yes, I have no problemwith that

JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, I will ask that both



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 parties reserve that day as the day we will have 2 telephonic arguments on the motion, only if the parties 3 request it. In other words, Mr. Graff, if you file your 4 motion and don't want argument, then Mr. Brown doesn't 5 want argument, then we won't have it; but if you do, I 6 will go ahead and order that argument be that day at a 7 particular time. Okay? 8 MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor, and what I'll do is 9 I'll coordinate with Mr. Brown. 10 11 12 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. MR. GRAFF: If there's any argument necessary. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. But keep that date 13 November 17th on your calendar and that will be a date 14 we're pulling aside for this. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 parties another hearing.MR. GRAFF: That's fine. MR. BROWN: That fine, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, I would ask that provide witness and evidence lists to that are complete for 30 days before Does that work for you, Mr. Brown? MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: And Mr. Graff? MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, Mr. Graff, both
one the

do you 25 have any subpoena requests you want for me to get people



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 to appear for the hearing? I usually want 30 days 2 before the hearing for those requests. Is that okay 3 with you? 4 MR. GRAFF: Yes. Certainly. Well, okay, the 5 witness list is 30 days before the hearing, and then the 6 subpoena request is also 30 days? 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Right, that gives me enough time 8 to actually act upon a subpoena request, because it 9 gives me time if it's hard to kind of make that happen. 10 MR. GRAFF: Oh, okay. Whatever period of time 11 Your Honor feels is necessary. 12 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, I mean, it sounds 13 like you won't need that, because your witnesses are 14 people you already work with, but in case you need one, 15 then I will be able to provide one. 16 Okay. And I ask that each partyprovide me with 17 a CD with all of the premarked versions of your exhibits 18 at least 30 days before the hearing as well. 19 20 21 you? 22 23 MR. BROWN: CD version of exhibits. JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Graff, is that okay with

MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Andjust so you know, Mr. Graff, 24 I will be putting out a report this evening or tomorrow 25 that will come to you listing all of these things that


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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 we agreed to as well. So, I know you're writing down as 2 we're talking, but I do want to assure you, you will get 3 a complete list of all these things we've agreed to. 4 MR. BROWN: Your Honor, in terms of the list 5 well, do you want the exhibits themselves, or just a 6 list of the exhibits? 7 JUDGE RAWALD: No, what I would like is the 8 actual exhibits on a CD so I can review thembefore the 9 hearing so I can be smart on the issues. And then at 10 the hearing if people are objecting to certain exhibits 11 or if there is a discussion of the exhibit, I can 12 actuallybe informed what the exhibits are and we can 13 discuss them intelligently. 14 MR. BROWN: Okay. Do you also want hard copies 15 orjust the CD version? 16 JUDGE RAWALD: No, I think it would be easier 17 and less expensive for all people, so I would prefer 18 that actually. 19 20 MR. BROWN: Fine. JUDGE RAWALD: Unless that proposes challenge 21 for you. If you can't do that, then I'll take the hard 22 copy, but I think that's usuallymuch less difficult to 23 mail me a CD than it is to mail me a package of papers. 24 MR. BROWN: I expect that converting them into a 25 CD, I'm going to hire some 14-year-old kid to do it.



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 They're less technologically challenged than I am. 2 JUDGE RAWALD: Well, I do want to save your 3 clients money if at all possible on certain things. So, 4 okay. 5 And then, Mr. Brown, you're heard this before, 6 but I'll let you know, Mr. Graff, as well, I'll leave 7 the ability for the parties to request any post-hearing 8 brief at the hearing. So, if an issue comes up and you 9 want to brief it after the hearing, we can discuss it at 10 the hearing. I don't have a druthers one way or the 11 other. I like to have argument by the parties at the 12 hearing so I would talk to the parties about the various 13 issues andwe can further explore it and I'll read the 14 law and the facts as we've heard them, but I do want to 15 give you the opportunity tobrief something if you think 16 it's really interesting and you're not prepared to talk 17 about it at the hearing. Okay, Mr. Brown? 18 19 MR. BROWN: Fine, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Let's talk about the hearing 20 date, then. Given that we'll have a summaryjudgment 21 argument probably in November at some point, if we have 22 one at all, then I will decide that by it looks like 23 hopefully December. So, we would be looking at the next 24 calendar year. I've alreadybooked several things into 25 the next calendar year, some of which include Mr. Brown,



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 so he is also busy those days. 2 So, actually, I'mtrying to look at when I would 3 be available in February. Mr. Brown, do you have 4 something in February, the first week of February? Was 5 there a reason why I didn't have that booked up? 6 7 Honor? 8 9 MR. BROWN: The first week of February, Your

JUDGE RAWALD: That's right. MR. BROWN: The first week of February, I have 10 nothing booked, Your Honor. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: I have another case that last 12 week of January which youmay be on, I'mnot sure. That 13 would be a littlebit difficult. What about March 14 the week ofMarch 13th? 15 16 17 18 MR. BROWN: That's still part ofmy son's

-- JUDGE RAWALD: Springbreak? MR. BROWN: spring break, so I guess it's JUDGE RAWALD: And the following week, Mr. 19 Brown, March 20th through 24th? 20 21 MR. BROWN: That would work. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, and, Mr. Graff, how does 22 that work for you? 23 MR. GRAFF: Yeah, I'm looking, that's good for 24 me, the week of the 20th. 25 JUDGE RAWALD: All right, March 20th through



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 24th. 2 3 MR. GRAFF: That's fine. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, let's holdback the 4 possible hearing date in this case, and I'll go ahead 5 and look at the courts andmake a decision on venue and 6 then let you know that that hearing date is solid once 7 we get all that linedup. 8 9 MR. BROWN: So, itwould be any day that week? JUDGE RAWALD: Well, I want to talk to you next, 10 how long do you think the hearing will last? Mr. Graff, 11 what's your opinion? 12 MR. GRAFF: I would assume -- well, just to be 13 on the safe side, I'm going to say a day and a half. 14 15 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And Mr. Brown? MR. BROWN: Well, givenmy most recent 16 experiences with hearings, I

-- this could go into three 17 days, I think. 18 JUDGE RAWALD: I mean, there's a lot of 19 witnesses we're talking about here, at least eight 20 witnesses, so it could run long. So, what I would 21 probably suspect is that I wouldput the case up needing 22 to be heard starting on Tuesday, March 21st, and tell 23 themto reserve the courtroomthrough the end of the 24 weekjust to be on the safe side so we wouldn't feel 25 rushed. That's how I would handle itmost likely. So,



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 keep the whole week open on your calendar, expecting 2 that I would probably order the hearing start that 3 Tuesday, March 21st. MR. GRAFF: Okay, that's fine, Your Honor. 4 5 6 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Is that okay with you, Mr. Brown? MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, good. Any other 8 calendaring or litigation scheduling issues that you 9 want to discuss, Mr. Brown? 10 11 12 13 MR. BROWN: No, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, Mr. Graff? MR. GRAFF: Nothing further, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Let's just talk about a 14 substantive issue. I noticed, Mr. Graff, I don't know 15 16 17 18 19 ifyou notice of the
are youhave your answer in front
on page 2 of your answer, page, it's allegation 3,

there? Do you have it? MR. GRAFF: Hold on just of you, but I did starting in the middle paragraph 1, it says --

a second. Letme get 20 my answer. 21 22 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes, sir. MR. GRAFF: Okay. Okay, I have my answer to the 23 complaint. 24 JUDGE RAWALD: On page 2 of your answer, it's in 25 the middle of the page, it has allegation 3 inbold type



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 and then it had a number 1 below it and the sentence 2 reads, "This answering respondent denies/admits the 3 allegation containedinparagraph 1." I assume youmean 4 denies, not admits. Is that right, sir? 5 MR. GRAFF: The statement admits

-- let's see. 6 What paragraph number, Your Honor, are you referring to? 7 JUDGE RAWALD: So, on page 2, there's a 8 paragraph 3, a paragraph 4, sentence allegation 3 in 9 bold type, and then there's a paragraph numbered 1. 10 That paragraph number 1, the first sentence reads, "This 11 answering respondent denies/admits the allegation 12 containedinparagraph 1.'' 13 14 MR. GRAFF: That is a typo. JUDGE RAWALD: Right, it shouldbe just denies. 15 Is that right, sir? 16 MR. GRAFF: I'll list it, let's put it right now 17 as a denial, and I'll cross-reference it and, you know, 18 file an as-amendedpleading in the event it's the other 19 way around. 20 JUDGE RAWALD: I appreciate that, okay, thank 21 you. Do you see what I'mtalking about there, Mr. 22 Brown? 23 MR. BROWN: I see where you're talking about, 24 yes, Your Honor. I assumed itwas a denial, Your Honor, 25 so that's fine.



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes, I just wanted to make sure 2 that everybody is clear about what's being said here. 3 Denymakes sense, I just want tomake sure that is 4 what's meant. 5 Okay. And then, Mr. Graff, you do raise a 6 number of affirmative defenses. Having had discovery, 7 have you pareddown the affirmative responses you're 8 going to be presenting, or do you wantme to be prepared 9 for possibly eight different affirmative defenses? 10 MR. GRAFF: Give me a moment, Your Honor, and 11 I'll tell you whether or not we are going to pursue any 12 of the other affirmative responses. 13 14 JUDGE RAWALD: That's okay. MR. GRAFF: Your Honor, we will not be pursuing 15 the fourth affirmative, fifth affirmative or the eighth 16 affirmative defense. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: So, I have fourth, fifth and 18 eighth. 19 MR. GRAFF: That is correct. And I may -- we 20 may delete

-- you know, as trial comes closer, we may 21 delete some of the other defenses as well and not pursue 22 them. 23 JUDGE RAWALD: That's fine. It's helpful to 24 know now as I'mpreparing for trial andMr. Brown's 25 preparing for trial which issues are still in play.



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 And, so, you're saying at least three of those 2 affirmative defenses are off the table, and so Mr. Brown 3 and I will not focus any attention in our own respective 4 work on those particular affirmative defenses, okay? 5 6 7 Mr. Brown, do you understand where we are there? MR. BROWN: Yes, I do. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, okay. Anything else 8 substantivelyto talk about, Mr. Graff? 9 10 MR. GRAFF: No, nothing further, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, anything substantively you 11 want to talk about, Mr. Brown? 12 13 MR. BROWN: Nothing further. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, and let's talk about one 14 last issue, then, which is settlement. Have the parties 15 had an opportunity to talk about settlement at all so 16 far? 17 MR. GRAFF: Your Honor, this is Steve Graff. We 18 just completed the deposition, by stipulation, of the 19 pilot of the aircraft. We do not have a transcript of 20 that yet. I will be contacting counsel for the 21 administrator and we'll be discussing settlement or I 22 probably should say a resolution of the case, even 23 before we get that, and I knowMr. Brown hasn't had the 24 opportunity to review the transcript either, but we will 25 be sitting down. We have a very good relationship. I

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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 think apparently, this is my first case with him and 2 he's a real gentleman. So, I think that settlement 3 negotiations will go well. Whether we reach a 4 settlement is something else. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Brown, do you share that 6 perspective, then? 7 8 MR. BROWN: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Then as I do in all cases, 9 I encourage the parties to continue to talk about 10 settlement, it's always better for the parties if we can 11 avoid having a hearing and the costs associatedwith the 12 hearing and all those things, but ifnecessary, we will 13 have the hearing, obviously. So, please keepme 14 apprised of your settlement negotiations. 15 What I will go ahead and do is issue a 16 prehearing conference report relating all the things 17 that I've discussed here today and it shouldbe to you 18 tomorrow. 19 Mr. Graff, we do have a fax number for you. I 20 have also been servingMr. Hill. Do youmind ifwe 21 remove him from the service list at this point? I don't 22 see a need to serve himif we're serving you as well. 23 MR. GRAFF: I'll be able to get him-- he is my 24 client, I'llbe able to get him copies of all documents. 25 JUDGE RAWALD: Yes, sir. So, the previousjudge



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 typically served the client as well. I don't see the 2 need for us to go through that if the attorney is on the 3 case legally and it's sufficient to serve you andjust 4 keep serving you rather than him in addition. 5 MR. GRAFF: I appreciate the courtesy, Your 6 Honor. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Well, it's up to you. If you 8 want me to keep serving Mr. Hill, I will, it's just 9 easier not to. 10 MR. GRAFF: Save everybody some money. We don't 11 need to serve him. I canjust scan and email him the 12 documents. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Wonderful. Okay, then 14 I'll be servingjust you and Mr. Brown in the future in 15 this case. 16 Okay, any other questions for me? I'll ask that 17 one last time. Mr. Graff, any questions for me? 18 MR. GRAFF: No. Well, yes, there is one. If 19 Mr. Brown and I have reached an almost settlement, but 20 there's a few stickingpoints, and again, I have not 21 discussed it with him yet. If there are a few sticking 22 points, would it be appropriate for your office to act 23 as a mediator in thatmatter and would you be willing to 24 do so? 25 JUDGE RAWALD: So, here's my position, and I

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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc. 8/23/2016
1 articulated this recently in another case that Mr. Brown 2 heard, is that I don't mind serving in that role in 3 helping the parties come to a conclusion, because I feel 4 pretty comfortable inbeing able to dispense of any 5 discussion of settlement in deciding the facts of the 6 case in the future. But all parties need to be 7 comfortable with that, and, so, Mr. Brown, you can 8 discuss whether you feel comfortable with that and want 9 me to serve in that role, I certainly don't mind 10 helping. 11 What I have found in the past dealing with the 12 Government andhavingmyself having been a Government 13 lawyer and also a private lawyer, is that the Government 14 has to decide the case independent of Mr. Brown, so he 15 may have to run that offerback to somebody else that's 16 higher than himto get approval. So, it wouldn't 17 necessarilybe a situation where we could sit in a room 18 together and I would be able to get to an answer, but I 19 wouldn't mind helping people iron out certain issues, 20 especially if it is a way that I can help avoid the 21 expensive litigation in the long termby doing that. 22 Does that answer your question, Mr. Graff? 23 24 MR. GRAFF: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, Mr. Brown, any other 25 thoughts on that?



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc.
MR. BROWN: Nothing further fromme. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. MR. BROWN: I understand. 26 

### 8/23/2016

1 2 3 4 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Understood. Great, 5 wonderful. At this time, I will go ahead and finish the 6 prehearing conference report and we will go off the 7 record. Thank you. 8 (Whereupon, at 1:30 p.m., the telephonic hearing 9 was adjourned.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25



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### TelephonicPrehearingConference MachOneAirCharters,Inc.
1 2 3 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

4 I, Karen Guy, do hereby certify that the 27 

### 8/23/2016

5 foregoing telephonic proceedings were recordedbyme via 6 digital audio recording and reduced to typewriting under 7 my supervision; that I am neither counsel for, related 8 to, nor employedby any of the parties to the action in 9 which these proceedings were transcribed; and further, 10 that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or 11 counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially 12 or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KAREN GUY, CER



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