EXHIBIT 1 

Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 1 of 26
In the Matter Of: 

NCS MULTISTAGE INC. vs 

NINE ENERGY SERVICE 

JOHN RODGERS, PH.D. P.E. 

November 09, 2020 

LEXITAS" 

Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 2 of 26
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1 

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 

WACO DIVISION 

NCS MULTISTAGE INC. 

Plaintiff, 

vs. 

NINE ENERGY SERVICE, 

INC. 

Defendant. 

CIVIL ACTION NO. 

6:20-cv-00277-ADA 

****************************************************** 

REMOTE ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 

JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E. 

NOVEMBER 9, 2020 

****************************************************** 

REMOTE ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JOHN P. 

RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E., produced as a witness at the 

instance of the Defendant, and duly sworn, was taken 

remotely in the above-styled and numbered cause on the 

9th day of November, 2020, from 9:55 a.m. to 3:57 p.m., 

via Zoom, before Julie C. Brandt, RMR, CRR, and CSR in 

and for the State of Texas, reported by machine 

shorthand, with the witness located in Ridgefield, 

Connecticut, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil 

Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or 

attached hereto. 

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REMOTE APPEARANCES 

FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 

Domingo Manuel Llagostera 

BLANK ROME 

717 Texas Avenue, Suite 1400 

Houston, Texas 77002 

713-632-8682 

DLLagostera@BlankRome.com 

FOR THE DEFENDANT: 

Parker Hancock 

Sean P. Belding 

Hilary Preston 

VINSON & ELKINS 

1001 Fannin Street, Suite 2500 

Houston, Texas 77002 

713-758-2153 

phancock@velaw.com 

sbelding@velaw.com 

hpreston@velaw.com 

VIDEOGRAPHER: 

Ryan LaFond - Lexitas Legal Solutions 

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Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 4 of 26
John Rodgers, Ph.D. P.E. - November 09, 2020 

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1 Q. The last sentence of the abstract reads, Full 

2 casing internal diameter may be restored in the region 

3 where the rupture disc formerly sealed the casing. 

4 Have I read the last sentence of the abstract 

5 accurately? 

6 A. Yes. 

7 Q. In this context, does the word "internal 

8 diameter" refer to a diameter or a sidewall? 

9 A. That would come off interpreted either way, 

10 and you get the same meaning out of the sentence which 

11 is you want full bore flow through the casing. I think 

12 in the oilfield industry, you want full casing ID, you 

13 want full flow through that full bore. I am not 

14 referring to a exact measurement. I just want it to be 

15 open. So it's closer to the surface definition. I want 

16 a uniform surface flow through that bore. 

17 Q Is it your opinion that the diameter 

18 understanding of internal diameter would still allow the 

19 sentence to make sense to a person of ordinary skill? 

20 A. Yes. 

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Q. To a certain of ordinary skill in the oil and 

gas industry, if presented with a text that could have 

both meanings, diameter and sidewall, is there a 

preference or an understanding that a POSA would have as 

between those two definitions? 

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Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 5 of 26
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A. Not with one sentence standing by itself like 

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that, I don't think there's a preference. And in this 

case, like we discussed, both work. 

4 Q. At this point, could you please turn to column 

5 1 of the '445 patent? It appears on page 10 of the 

6 document in front of you. 

7 A. Okay. 

8 Q. If you could, look to the lines 47 through 55 

9 which read, In many casing float techniques and devices 

10 it may not be possible to achieve full casing ID inside 

11 diameter following the opening of the air chamber. It 

12 is desirable to achieve full casing ID so that downhole 

13 tools can be conveyed to this region of the casing 

14 string and so operations, such as cementing, can be 

15 easily carried out using conventional ball drop 

16 techniques or other conventional techniques. Also, many 

17 float devices require the use of specialized float shoes 

18 and/or float collars. 

19 Have I read that accurately? 

20 A. Yes. 

21 Q. In the context of this paragraph, do you see 

22 where the term "ID" is used --

23 A. Yes, I do. 

24 Q. -- as an abbreviation? 

25 Do you see where the word "inside diameter" is 

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used? 

2 A. Oh, yes, in the parenthesis. 

3 Q. In this paragraph, does the term "ID" or 

4 "inside diameter" refer to a diameter or a sidewall? 

5 A. In my reading, it's sidewall, but I think both 

6 work in this full casing ID context. 

7 Q. What about this paragraph makes you think that 

8 the sidewall definition could be used? 

9 A. It's the same as the abstract sentence we just 

10 discussed. It just refers to one -- the motivation to 

11 achieve a full bore -- you know, bore is the same --

12 it's another synonym for ID. So in, you know, oilfield 

13 terminology and working with downhole tools, it's just 

14 very common to talk in terms of ID, meaning that inside 

15 surface or that inside bore flow path through the 

16 tubulars. 

17 Q. Thank you, Dr. Rodgers. 

18 If you could, look to column 2, which appears 

19 on the same page. Column 2, lines 40 through 44. Where 

20 the sentence begins, In addition, full casing ID, inside 

21 diameter, is restored after the rupture disc is broken 

22 so that there is no need to drill out any part of the 

23 device. This full casing ID is useful for use in ball 

24 drop systems. 

25 In these sentences, does the term "ID" or 

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1 "inside diameter" refer to a diameter or a sidewall? 

2 A. It's pretty much the same as the last couple 

3 of examples. I read it first as inside diameter being 

4 the surface, but it works with both. 

5 Q. Why do you read this first as being the inside 

6 surface? 

7 A. Because that's the most common usage in, you 

8 know, downhole tool oilfield discussion terminology 

9 among persons of ordinary skill, unless there's a 

10 specific measurement. You know, if I'm trying to 

11 measure the internal diameter, that's one thing. 

12 I don't read this as a measurement requirement 

13 in the sense I'm thinking more full flow through the 

14 internal -- you know, internal bore, internal diameter 

15 of that casing, and that doesn't require that I quantify 

16 it as a scaler. 

17 Q. If you would, please, turn to column 6, which 

18 appears on page 12 of the document. I would like to 

19 direct your attention to lines 62 through 66 where it 

20 says, Once the disc has been ruptured, the inside 

21 diameter of the casing string in the region of the 

22 rupture disc assembly 10 is substantially the same as 

23 that in the remainder of the casing string, e.g., casing 

24 ID, inner diameter, is restored following rupture of the 

25 disc. 

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1 In this paragraph, does the term "inner 

2 diameter" or "ID" refer to a diameter or a sidewall? 

3 A. This sounds more like a numerical diameter, 

4 because I'm actually saying it's the same as the casing 

5 string. That triggers me to think measurement of 

6 diameter. 

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Q. Is it your opinion that a comparison of inner 

diameters, or IDs, refers to the diameter understanding 

of internal diameter? 

MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection, form. 

A. That's going to depend on the sentence. I 

know in this case that's what comes to mind when I read 

this. 

Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Is it the word "same," 

"substantially the same as" that gives you that context 

in this sentence? 

A. Yes, I'd say that's right. 

Q. Would you understand the phrase "substantially 

the same" to be a comparison? 

A. Yes. 

Q. If you would, please turn to column 7, which 

appears on the top of page 13. 

A. Okay. 

Q. I direct your attention to column 7, lines 3 

and 4 where it says, In other words, the tubular string 

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well fluid, the casing string having an internal 

diameter that defines a fluid passageway between an 

upper portion of the casing string and a lower portion 

of the casing string, the float tool comprising. 

Have I read that accurately? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Do you understand here -- or, first, as used 

in the preamble, does the phrase "internal diameter" 

carry its diameter or sidewall definition? 

A. I read it as sidewall. 

Q. What from this context makes you believe that 

it refers to the sidewall rather than the diameter? 

A. I'm just talking in general terms about the 

fluid passage of the interior of a casing string, and to 

me that's the sidewall definition. 

16 Q. At this point, I would like to introduce what 

17 will be Deposition Exhibit 6, which is a table referring 

18 to casing diameters which will be dropped in the chat 

19 momentarily. 

20 (Exhibit 6 marked.) 

21 MR. LLAGOSTERA: Dr. Rodgers, do you need 

22 a break? We've been going more than an hour. I'm fine 

23 if you're fine. 

24 THE WITNESS: I'm fine. Happy to keep 

25 going. Thank you, though. 

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1 MR. LLAGOSTERA: Okay. 

2 Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) All right. Let me know when 

3 you have that downloaded and open. 

4 A. Okay. I have it. 

5 Q. Dr. Rodgers, do you recognize this document? 

6 A. I do. 

7 Q. What is this document? 

8 A. I referred to it as the World Oil casing 

9 tables. 

10 Q. Can you describe what the World Oil casing 

11 tables are? 

12 A. Yeah, World Oil is just an industry 

13 publication in the oil industry. And at some interval, 

14 they publish something known as casing tables, which are 

15 just a listing of many different products offered in the 

16 industry that relate to casing, different types of 

17 casing. 

18 Q. On page 2 of the document in front of you, do 

19 you see a section that's entitled "Dimension 

20 Nomenclature"? 

21 A. Yes. 

22 Q. Do you see on the third line of definitions 

23 the lower case d, which it says, "d = ID (drift) in."? 

24 A. Yes. 

25 Q. What does that refer to? 

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1 A. That refers to the measurement or the straight 

2 diameter definition that you've been describing of the 

3 interior diameter of that casing. 

4 Q. Is the feature that is described here with 

5 lower case d shown in any of the figures to the right of 

6 these definitions? 

7 A. Yes. Each one of them -- each one of the four 

8 figures has the little d pointed out. 

9 Q. Would you describe those -- excuse me. Strike 

10 that question. 

11 In each of the circumstances in the four 

12 figures shown to the right, does the letter d refer to a 

13 diameter or a sidewall of the casing strings depicted? 

14 A. They're referring to a diameter, the 

15 measurement. 

16 Q. And how are you -- how are you -- strike the 

17 I question. 

18 What leads you to the conclusion that here 

19 it's referring to the diameter and not the sidewall? 

20 A. We're talking about -- this document is 

21 talking about specific examples and specific sizes of 

22 available products on the market. So they're referring 

23 here, especially you can tell from the equals sign and 

24 the units of inches, I-N, that they're talking about a 

25 numerical value here. 

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1 Q. Here does the term "ID" depicted as lower case 

2 d refer to the diameter of a fluid passage through the 

3 devices depicted in the figures? 

4 A. Yes, it's the diameter of the casing which is 

5 also the diameter of the fluid passage. 

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Q. Returning to the '445 patent, in the preamble 

of claim 1 that begins on line 6 of column 14, is there 

something different about the phrase "internal diameter" 

that defines a fluid passageway that would provide to 

you a different understanding of internal diameter than 

the exhibit we just looked at? 

MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection, form. 

A. Yes. I mean, there's no -- there's no cue in 

that part of the sentence that indicates anything 

numerical or measurement oriented to me. 

Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Turning to the limitation 

that begins on line 17, do you see the phrase at the 

very end of that limitation "the internal diameter of 

the casing string"? 

A. As in parallel to the internal diameter of the 

casing string? 

Q. Yeah. Do you see the phrase "internal 

diameter of the casing string"? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Would you understand that as referring to the 

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Q. I would like to ask you some questions about 

the term "sealing engagement." Prior to reading the 

'445 patent, were you aware of the term "sealing 

engagement" in any context? 

A. No. It sounds like patent terminology to me 

again. 

Q. What does the term "engagement" mean? 

A. Some sort of interaction between two items, 

two components in a downhole tool context. 

Q. Can two elements or components be in 

engagement with one another if they are merely touching? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Would you refer to the binder sitting in front 

of you as an engagement with the table that it's sitting 

on? 

A. Yes. 

17 Q. Dr. Rodgers, at this point I would like to 

18 introduce what will be Deposition Exhibit 9, which is a 

19 listing of definitions from The Random House College 

20 Dictionary. 

21 (Exhibit 9 marked.) 

22 Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Please let me know when you 

23 have that document open in front of you. 

24 A. Okay. I have it. 

25 Q. Can you please turn to page 5 of that 

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1 document, which is a page from that dictionary with 

2 words that start with the letter E. 

3 A. I have it. 

4 Q. At the bottom left side of the page, the term 

5 "engage" appears. Dr. Rodgers, can you please read to 

6 yourself that definition for a moment? 

7 A. Okay. 

8 Q. Do any of the definitions listed here in this 

9 dictionary entry use the term or refer to the term 

10 "engage" in the same sense that it is used in the '445 

11 patent? 

12 A. Well, engage is used in multiple ways in the 

13 '445 patent or in multiple places. Sometimes it's 

14 sealing engagement. Sometimes there are other types of 

15 engagement. So we might have to be -- we would have to 

16 consider them independently. But, in general, there are 

17 a few terms here, you know, tubular member locked with, 

18 to attach, to secure obviously. We talked about that. 

19 And interlock 14 there in the context of gears. So all 

20 those are roughly related to the physics of things in 

21 contact. 

22 Q. And just for clarity in looking at that 

23 dictionary entry, am I correct in saying that you are 

24 referring to definitions number 8 and number 9 and 

25 number 14? 

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A. That's correct. 

Q. Is the binder sitting on your desk engaged 

with the table in the sense of any of those definitions? 

A. Yes. I see the binder as making contact with 

force. There is engagement between the binder and the 

table. 

Q. Where in the dictionary entry in front of you 

is in contact sufficient to be engaged? 

A. My read on those three definitions means I 

have some sort of contact or force between the items. 

So all three of the ones that I referenced before, 

clearly 8 and 14 are more specialized definitions 

perhaps going towards gear design, but in mechanical 

engineering in general, I would say that all three of 

them refer to the fact that there's a contact that 

occurs between the two objects, some sort of contact. 

Q. Is contact alone sufficient for two components 

to be engaged with one another? 

MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection, asked and 

answered. 

A. That's -- that's what I'm saying. 

Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Dr. Rodgers, in the sense of 

the '445 patent where the term "sealing engagement" is 

used, can two components be in sealing engagement with 

one another, move relative to one another, while 

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147 

Does the sidewall or diameter definition apply 

to the use of internal diameter in the claim amendment 

presented on page 2? 

A. Sidewall. 

Q. And with this amendment, what is the internal 

diameter of the casing string parallel to? 

MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection to form. 

A. The region of the tubular member where the 

rupture disc is attached. 

Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Is it your understanding 

from the claim that the region where the rupture disc is 

attached must have an internal diameter? 

A. It's a region of a tubular member. So it's 

going to have it's going to be cylindrical, and it's 

going to have an internal diameter. 

Q. Is it your understanding that internal 

diameter must be the diameter understanding of the term 

"internal diameter" in order to be compared as larger 

than the internal diameter of the casing string? 

MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection, form. 

Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Go ahead. Don't answer that 

question. I'll ask a better one. 

A. Okay. 

24 Q. In the version of claim 1 on page 2 where it 

25 reads "The region of the tubular member where the 

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1 rupture disc is attached has a larger internal diameter 

2 than the internal diameter of the casing string," you've 

3 now testified twice today that that refers to the 

4 diameter understanding of internal diameter. Is that 

5 correct? 

6 A. Yes, that's right. 

7 Q. Does that mean that the larger internal 

8 diameter of the region of the tubular member where the 

9 rupture disc is attached also refers to the diameter 

10 understanding of internal diameter? 

11 MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection, form. 

12 A. If you have a larger internal diameter than 

13 the internal diameter of the casing string, that is 

14 referring to the term -- the definition "diameter" 

15 meaning measurement. 

16 Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Is it possible to determine 

17 if an internal diameter under the diameter understanding 

18 of internal diameter is parallel to an internal diameter 

19 under the sidewall definition of internal diameter? 

20 MR. LLAGOSTERA: Objection, form. 

21 A. No, it doesn't make any sense to try to say 

22 it's parallel to an internal diameter if that internal 

23 diameter means diameter as in measurement. 

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Q. (BY MR. HANCOCK) Please turn to page 11 of 

this response. 

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column sorry, let me give you a moment to get it up. 

A. I've got it. 

3 Q. Can you please turn to column 8 of the Gano 

4 references lines 45 and 46? 

5 Do you see the sentence that reads, It also 

6 presents inwardly facing upper arcuate shoulders 126 

7 upon which the radial edges of plug 102 are seated? 

8 Have I read that accurately? 

9 A. Yes. 

10 Q. Do you see the use of the term "seated" to 

11 describe the rupture disc as seated on element 126 in 

12 that sentence of Gano? 

13 A. Yes. 

14 Q. Turning to figure 3 of Gano, can you identify 

15 the rupture disc 104 and the shoulder 126? And all I 

16 need is confirmation that you have identified where 

17 those are. 

18 A. Yes, I see it -- them. 

19 Q. Would a person of ordinary skill in the art 

20 presume from the sentence that I just read and the 

21 figure that you see in front of you that a substantially 

22 fluid tight seal would be formed between the rupture 

23 disc 104 and shoulder 126? 

24 A. No. 

25 Q. Why not? 

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1 A. I don't have enough information to know that 

2 the rupture disc is sealing to that shoulder 126. It's 

3 seated on it, but that doesn't mean it's sealed to it. 

4 Q. Is it your understanding that the float 

5 tool -- excuse me, let me strike that. 

6 Is it your understanding that the tool 

7 depicted in figure 3 of Gano is a rupture disc assembly 

8 for blocking a pipe of some kind? 

9 A. Yes. 

10 Q. To the extent that a seal is not formed 

11 between rupture disc 104 and shoulder 126, do you have 

12 any opinions as to where that seal might be formed? 

13 A. Yes. There's an 0 -ring or some sort of seal 

14 at 118 on the upper surface of the rupture disc. 

15 Q. Are you referring to element 118 or 116? 116 

16 appears in my version to be the 0-ring. 

17 A. 118. 116 is the 0 -ring for that upper piston. 

18 I forget exactly the terminology. But then there's a 

19 second seal that's got to occur between 114, which is 

20 that upper piston, and the rupture disc itself. It's a 

21 triangular region there. 

22 Q. Understood. 

23 So then your understanding of Gano is that the 

24 rupture disc 104 is sealed or creates a seal at element 

25 118 but is seated on surface 126? 

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1 A. Yes. 

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Q. Returning to Deposition Exhibit 12, the 

response to notice of noncompliant amendment, and 

referring to the last sentence of the first paragraph of 

page 12, would it be fair to say that this sentence is 

discussing the Gano reference and what the Gano 

reference discloses? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Does this sentence refer to or describe any 

feature of figure 2 of the '445 patent? 

A. I don't think so. 

Q. Can you please turn to figure 2 of the '445 

patent? 

A. Okay. 

Q. In the embodiment shown in figure 2, is the 

rupture disc seated on any feature of the embodiment 

shown in figure 2? 

A. Yes. 

Q. Where is the rupture disc seated? 

A. It's seated on the sheer tabs, which is part 

of the sheer ring. 

Q. Returning to claim 1 of the '445 patent, I 

would like to discuss the next limitation, which is that 

the attachment region is parallel to an internal 

diameter of the casing string. 

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179 

CHANGES AND SIGNATURE 

WITNESS NAME: JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E. 

DATE OF DEPOSITION: NOVEMBER 9, 2020 

PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 

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I, JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E., have read the 

foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature that 

same is true and correct, except as noted above. 

JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E. 

THE STATE OF ) 

COUNTY OF ) 

Before me, , on 

this day personally appeared JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., 

P.E., known to me (or proved to me under oath or through 

) (description of identity 

card or other document) to be the person whose name is 

subscribed to the foregoing instrument and acknowledged 

to me that they executed the same for the purposes and 

consideration therein expressed. 

Given under my hand and seal of office this 

day of 

NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 

THE STATE OF 

COMMISSION EXPIRES: 

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS 

WACO DIVISION 

NCS MULTISTAGE INC. 

Plaintiff, 

vs. 

NINE ENERGY SERVICE, 

INC. 

Defendant. 

CIVIL ACTION NO. 

6:20-cv-00277-ADA 

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 

REMOTE VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 

JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E. 

NOVEMBER 9, 2020 

I, Julie C. Brandt, Certified Shorthand Reporter in 

and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the 

following: 

That the witness, JOHN P. RODGERS, Ph.D., P.E., was 

duly sworn by the officer and that the transcript of the 

oral deposition is a true record of the testimony given 

by the witness; 

Before completion of the deposition, review of the 

transcript [X] was [ ] was not requested. If requested, 

any changes made by the deponent (and provided to the 

reporter) during the period allowed are appended hereto; 

That the amount of time used by each party at the 

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Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 24 of 26
John Rodgers, Ph.D. P.E. - November 09, 2020 

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deposition is as follows: 

Domingo Manuel Llagostera 00 HOUR(S):05 MINUTE(S) 

Parker Hancock 04 HOUR(S):27 MINUTE(S) 

That pursuant to information given to the 

deposition officer at the time said testimony was taken, 

the following includes counsel for all parties of 

record: 

FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 

Domingo Manuel Llagostera 

BLANK ROME 

717 Texas Avenue, Suite 1400 

Houston, Texas 77002 

713-632-8682 

DLLagostera@BlankRome.com 

FOR THE DEFENDANT: 

Parker Hancock 

Sean P. Belding 

Hilary Preston 

VINSON & ELKINS 

1001 Fannin Street, Suite 2500 

Houston, Texas 77002 

713-758-2153 

phancock@velaw.com 

sbelding@velaw.com 

hpreston@velaw.com 

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Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 25 of 26
John Rodgers, Ph.D. P.E. - November 09, 2020 

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I further certify that I am neither counsel for, 

related to, nor employed by any of the parties or 

attorneys in the action in which this proceeding was 

taken, and further that I am not financially or 

otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. 

Certified to by e , 2020. 

c. 

Julie C. Brandt, CSR, RMR, CRR 

Texas CSR No. 4018 

Expiration Date: 10/31/21 

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Case 6:20-cv-00277-ADA Document 49-1 Filed 12/11/20 Page 26 of 26