‘ 

EXHIBIT 9

Case 6:20-cv-00245-ADA Document 65-9 Filed 12/14/21 Page 1 of 20
In the Matter Of:

CADDO SYSTEMS vs

MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY

LUKE WROBLEWSKI

October 13, 2021

Case 6:20-cv-00245-ADA Document 65-9 Filed 12/14/21 Page 2 of 20
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· · · · · ·IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

· · · · · · FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

· · · · · · · · · · WACO DIVISION

CADDO SYSTEMS, INC., and· · · ·)

511 TECHNOLOGIES, INC.· · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· Case No.

· · · · · · · · ·Plaintiffs,· ·)· 6:20-cv-245-ADA

· · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY,· · · · · )

INCORPORATED,· · · · · · · · · )

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · ·Defendant.· · )

-------------------------------X

CADDO SYSTEMS, INC., and· · · ·)

511 TECHNOLOGIES, INC.· · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· Case No.

· · · · · · · · ·Plaintiffs,· ·)· 6:20-cv-244-ADA

· · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

NXP SEMICONDUCTORS N.V., et· · )

al.,· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · ·Defendants.· ·)

-------------------------------X

· · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF

· · · · · · · · · ·LUKE WROBLEWSKI

· · · · · · · · ·Conducted Remotely

· · · · · · · · Wednesday, October 13, 2021

· · · · · · · · · ·9:05 a.m. (PST)

Stenographically remotely reported by:

Mayleen Ahmed, RMR, CRR, CRC, CSR/CCR

Job No.: 814276

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Case 6:20-cv-00245-ADA Document 65-9 Filed 12/14/21 Page 3 of 20
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· · ·Remote Appearances Via Lexitas LegalView

Attorneys for Plaintiffs:

· · · · DEVLIN LAW FIRM LLC

· · · · BY: VERONICA M. (SCHAD) McCARTY, ESQ.

· · · · · · ALEX CHAN, ESQ.

· · · · 1526 Gilpin Avenue

· · · · Wilmington, Delaware 19806

· · · · 302.449.9010

· · · · Email:· vschad@devlinlawfirm.com

· · · · · · · ·achan@devlinlawfirm.com

Attorneys for Defendant

Microchip Technology, Inc.:

· · · · ORRICK, HERRINGTON & SUTCLIFFE LLP

· · · · BY: LILLIAN J. MAO, ESQ.

· · · · · · TRAVIS JENSEN, ESQ.

· · · · 1000 Marsh Road

· · · · Menlo Park, California 94025

· · · · 650.614.7400

· · · · lmao@orrick.om

· · · · tjensen@orrick.com

Attorneys for Defendant NXP USA:

· · · · SHELTON COBURN LLP

· · · · BY: BARRY K. SHELTON, ESQ.

· · · · · · BRADLEY COBURN, ESQ.

· · · · 311 Ranch Road 620 S - Suite 205

· · · · Austin, Texas 78734-4775

· · · · 512.263.2165

· · · · bshelton@sheltoncoburn.com

· · · · bcoburn@sheltoncoburn.com

Also Present:

CHRISTOPHER MIERZEJEWSKI, Sr. Corporate Counsel

Microchip Technology, Inc.

ADRIAN BELTRAN, Videographer/Doc Tech, Lexitas

· · · · · · · · · · ·---o0o---

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CADDO SYSTEMS vs

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Case 6:20-cv-00245-ADA Document 65-9 Filed 12/14/21 Page 4 of 20
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· · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X

APPEARANCES ................................· · 2

CHANGES AND SIGNATURE ......................· 236

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION ...................· 237

WITNESS:· LUKE WROBLEWSKI

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE

EXAMINATION

BY MS. MAO .................................· ·7

BY MR. SHELTON .............................· 98

BY MS. MCARTY ..............................· 105

BY MS. MAO .................................· 208

BY MR. SHELTON .............................· 216

BY MS. MCARTY ..............................· 223

BY MS. MAO .................................· 231

----------- DOCUMENT/INFORMATION REQUESTS ----------

DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE

Date the breadcrumb drop-down navigation· · · ·212

structure was live on lukew.com web page

-------------------- EXHIBITS ---------------------

DEFENDANT'S

EXHIBIT· · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE

Exhibit 1· · ·Metadata [Native Excel]· · · · · ·16

Exhibit 2· · ·LinkedIn profile· · · · · · · · · 19

Exhibit 3· · ·Copy of "Site-Seeing: A Visual· · 30

· · · · · · · Approach to Web Usability"

· · · · · · · (MCHP-CADDO_0010195 - 10556)

Exhibit 4· · ·Word files "Site-Seeing: A· · · · 32

· · · · · · · Visual Approach to Web

· · · · · · · Usability" excerpt (193pp)

· · · · · · · (LW_0003)

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Case 6:20-cv-00245-ADA Document 65-9 Filed 12/14/21 Page 5 of 20
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------------------ EXHIBITS (Cont'd) ---------------

DEFENDANTS'

EXHIBIT· · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE

Exhibit 5· · ·Draft print of "Site-Seeing: A· · 46

· · · · · · · Visual Approach to Web

· · · · · · · Usability," "Chapter 2 - You

· · · · · · · Need a Plan: Preparing for

· · · · · · · Content" [Native .doc file)

· · · · · · · (LW_0013)

Exhibit 6· · ·(Excerpt) Breadcrumb Drop-down· · 92

· · · · · · · figure from "Site-Seeing"

Exhibit 7· · ·(Excerpt) Breadcrumb Drop-down· · 96

· · · · · · · excerpt from "Site-Seeing"

· · · · · · · with "Active Link" add-on

-------------------- EXHIBITS ----------------------

PLAINTIFF'S

EXHIBIT· · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE

Exhibit P1· · Scan of "Site-Seeing" Chapter· ·110

· · · · · · · Two - "You Need a Plan:

· · · · · · · Preparing for Content," (24pp)

Exhibit P2· · Amazon.com "Site-Seeing" pdf· · 111

· · · · · · · book info (native txt. file.)

Exhibit P4· · 9/28/21 email chain to/from· · ·162

· · · · · · · LukeW and Travis Jensen re:

· · · · · · · "Site Seeing - Breadcrumb

· · · · · · · Drop Down Menu" (35pp)

Exhibit P9· · Breadcrumb Drop-down· · · · · · ·191

· · · · · · · demonstrative (original

· · · · · · · PNG file)

· · · · · · · · · · · ---o0o---

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· DEPOSITION OF LUKE WROBLEWSKI - October 13, 2021

· · · · · · · · · ·---------------

· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are on the record

on October 13, 2021 at approximately 9:05 a.m.

Pacific time for the remote video deposition of Luke

Wroblewski in the matter of Caddo Systems, Inc., and

511 Technologies, Inc., versus Microchip Technology,

Inc.

· · · · · · My name is Adrian Beltran, and I am the

videographer and document technician for today.

· · · · · · Now, will counsel please introduce

themselves for the record, beginning with the party

noticing this proceeding.

· · · · · · MS. MAO:· This is Lillian Mao of Orrick

Herrington & Sutcliffe on behalf of Microchip.

· · · · · · MS. McCARTY:· This is Veronica Schad on

behalf of plaintiff, Caddo Systems, from Devlin Law

Firm.

· · · · · · MR. SHELTON:· And Barry Shelton of

Shelton Colburn LLP, representing NXP USA, Inc.

· · · · · · MR. JENSEN:· We also have Travis Jensen

from Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe for Microchip, as

well as virtually, in-house counsel, Chris

Mierzejewski from Microchip.

· · · · · · MR. CHAN:· And also, Alex Chan on behalf

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of the plaintiffs, Devlin law firm.

· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.· Will the

court reporter please swear in the witness.

· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Good morning.· My name is

Mayleen Ahmed, with Lexitas.· The reporter is

currently sitting in the state of Texas; the witness

is currently sitting in California.· So in

proceeding today, the parties agree and stipulate

that the court reporter shall administer the oath

and take down the deposition stenographically from a

remote location; that the witness is testifying

under the penalty of perjury as if sworn in person;

and that the deposition will be admissible in court

as if it had been taken following the Federal Rules

of Civil Procedure, or the state's rules where this

case is pending, the State of Texas.

· · · · · · Before we proceed, I will ask counsel

present to state their agreement to the above

stipulation or state if there is any objection.

· · · · · · MS. MAO:· Yes, so stipulated.

· · · · · · MS. McCARTY:· So stipulated.

· · · · · · MR. SHELTON:· So stipulated for NXP USA.

· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Hearing no objection, if

you could please raise your right hand.

· · · · · · Do you solemnly swear under penalty of

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perjury that you are Luke Wroblewski, and the

testimony you are about to give in the matter now

pending shall be the truth, the whole truth, and

nothing but the truth?

· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I do.

· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· Thank you.

· · · · · · Counsel, we may begin.

· · · · · · MS. MAO:· Thank you.

· · · · · · · · · ----------------

· · · · · · · · · ·LUKE WROBLEWSKI

· ·having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

· · · · · · · · · ----------------

· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION

BY MS. MAO:

· · · Q.· · Good morning, Mr. Wroblewski.· My name

is Lillian Mao.· As I just said, I represent

Microchip, which is one of the defendants, and I'll

be asking you some questions today.

· · · · · · Just to begin, could you please state

your full name for the record.

· · · A.· · Sure.· My name is Luke Wroblewski.

· · · Q.· · And what current -- what city do you

reside in?

· · · A.· · Los Gatos, California.

· · · Q.· · And where are you currently employed?

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· · · Q.· · Exhibit 5 has been introduced in this

case with the Bates number LW_0013.

· · · · · · Are you able to see and open that file?

· · · A.· · I'm opening it now.

· · · · · · Yes, I have it open.

· · · Q.· · Is this a draft of Chapter 2 of your

"Site-Seeing" book?

· · · A.· · Yes, it is.

· · · Q.· · Do you know whether this is the final

draft?

· · · A.· · It would take me a little bit of time to

say whether it's the final draft or not.· But it

looks mostly complete, yes.

· · · Q.· · And maybe it's a little easier, I'm

going to actually flip back and share Exhibit 1,

which was that metadata.

· · · A.· · Uh-hmm.

· · · Q.· · If you look at the row 14, it has the

Bates number of Exhibit 5, which is LW_13.· And we

can see that -- as it was provided to us, it was in

folder called "Final Word File."

· · · · · · Does that help?

· · · A.· · Yeah.· That definitely helps.· That

would be, if it's in the final Word files folder and

it's labeled "Final," that is the final document

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that got shared with the both the publisher and also

the design team to do the layout.

· · · Q.· · The name of the file is

"Chapter2_020802_final.doc."

· · · · · · Can you explain your naming conversion

here?

· · · A.· · That would be the time at which we sort

of stamped it as final.· So the way the iterations

worked is, when it was, you know, sent over, I would

put the date on the file.· And when I say "sent

over," I mean, to both the publisher and graphic

design team.

· · · · · · And this is also how we would kind of

keep track of versioning.· 'Cause, again, you know,

step backwards 20 years, those were -- you would use

file names oftentimes back then to -- we didn't have

version control systems and things like this as part

of our workflow, so you would use the file name.

· · · · · · You can also see we had to, like,

underscore things 'cause back then you couldn't put

spaces within file names either.

· · · Q.· · Am I understanding the date format

correctly, that this would refer to February 8,

2002?

· · · A.· · Yes.· That would be February 2, 2002.

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· · · Q.· · If you look at the "Last Modified Date"

column, that has a date in April, early April 2002.

· · · A.· · Uh-hmm.

· · · Q.· · Do you know what that reflects?

· · · A.· · There may be like -- as with all

files -- right? -- there may be small things that

happened to the files as the process of transferring

them or editing them in like a minor way that would

update that last modified date.

· · · · · · So what I interpret that discrepancy as,

the file was finalized in terms of content on

February 8, 2002, and sent over as such.· And then,

over the course of the next two months, as perhaps

it moved from one drive to another or, you know, a

slight modification of formatting things or

something like that happened, the last modified date

may have been updated.

· · · Q.· · Is it fair to say you would consider

February 2002 the time that you finished writing the

chapter?

· · · A.· · Yes.· I will -- actually, let me take a

step back.· It was probably before then.· I would

consider February 8, 2002 at the time I developed

the final document version of it and sent it over

for the publisher and for graphic design work.· It

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may have been completed a few days before then and

it sat there until I actually packaged it up and

sent it over.

· · · Q.· · Thanks for clarifying.

· · · · · · Do you have -- do you have a copy of the

file on your computer with you?

· · · A.· · Yes, I can pull it up.· So this is

Chapter 2, 2008, 2002.· Let me take a look.

· · · · · · Okay.· I have a folder also here titled

"Final Word files," and I have a Chapter 2, 2008.

sorry.· February 2 -- February 8, 2002 final.doc.

Yes, I have it open.

· · · Q.· · And are you able to determine what the

creation date is in the metadata on your version of

this file?

· · · A.· · Well, again, full disclosure, I am

looking at the file that I have uploaded to Dropbox

for you all.· I'm not looking at the file that I

originally pulled this from off of the FireWire

drive.

· · · Q.· · Okay.

· · · A.· · I see here the date created is

February 8, 2002, 10:30 a.m. and the date modified

is April 4, 2002, 12:08 p.m.

· · · Q.· · Thank you.

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should these things actually work?· And which of the

patterns and conventions are the ones that will

stick around the most -- right? -- and get most

widely adopted, and which ones should I use on my

sites based off of that combination of usability and

familiarity and effectiveness.

· · · Q.· · When did you first come up with this

idea of combining the breadcrumb with the drop-down?

· · · A.· · You know, it's a good question.· And I

was flipping through my notes to the book, and I

actually found, back in the chapter outline here --

(demonstrating) -- when I was doing the outline for

the book prior to publishing it, there is a little

bullet here.· It says, "Dynamic breadcrumb:

generic/lukew.com," and then above it, "Cascading

Menu," "Dynamic Menu," "Breadcrumb," "NCSA."

· · · · · · So during the time of outlining the book

and thinking through what content would be in it, I

had called it a "Dynamic breadcrumb" and written it

down as -- as a kind of example that I would like to

include in the book.

· · · · · · So that would have been in the early

phases of putting together the outline of the book

prior to actually writing the chapter.

· · · Q.· · Did you come up with that idea yourself

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the -- after "Home," right?

· · · A.· · Yes.

· · · Q.· · So it shows "Folio," then "Web Sites,"

and then the "Silver Wrapper Productions."· Do you

see that -- those links?

· · · A.· · Yes.

· · · Q.· · So get to "Silver Wrapper Products,"

would the user have needed to click on "Folio" and

then "Web Sites" in the general menus to create this

path?

· · · A.· · They wouldn't have had to click on that,

no.· They could have tapped on a link that says

"Silver Wrapper Productions" on, for example, the

home page, and then dropped directly into this page.

· · · Q.· · Is that a net -- is it a web --

· · · · · · Could the user have gotten to this

breadcrumb by clicking on "Folio," and then "Web

Sites," and then "Silver Wrapper Productions"?

· · · A.· · Yes.

· · · Q.· · Okay.· And this example on page 59, you

said this is the only example of dynamic breadcrumbs

in your book, right?

· · · A.· · That was published, yes.

· · · · · · In the Images folder that I provided,

there was a number of, like, different renderings of

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Luke Wroblewski

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what the drop-down menus can be rendered as based

off of what, like, different browsers supported.

But in the published book, these were the images,

yes.

· · · Q.· · And there's no rolling over.· I think

you called it hover on.· Do you remember using that

term earlier?

· · · A.· · Uh-hmm.· Yes.· Hovering over.

· · · Q.· · Okay.· There is no hovering over

functionality for these images, though, on page 59,

right?

· · · A.· · Yeah, no, it is not depicted in these

images.· These are standard drop-down HTML elements

within an order set of links.

· · · Q.· · Could you see it being potentially

useful if you were able to hover over these links

and see the menu items on that level?

· · · A.· · Again, it comes back to me saying, it

depends.· Right?· In some cases, that would be

useful; in other cases, it could become an

annoyance.

· · · Q.· · Well, in the cases that's useful, why is

it useful?

· · · A.· · It would be useful for kind of -- I

don't want to use the word "forcing."· But making it

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MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY

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www.LexitasLegal.com/Premier Lexitas

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Luke Wroblewski

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the way it looks as the final image output.

· · · Q.· · Right.

· · · A.· · So this represents part of the process

of going from screenshot to production assay in the

book.

· · · Q.· · But how the image for the book was

created was through -- was through photo -- was

through Photoshop?

· · · A.· · I would say it's a combination of

Photoshop and screenshots of HTML code.· There was

no -- like, all these elements were not created from

scratch.

· · · · · · They were a screenshot of, like I said,

an existing web page design where I started to

introduce some additional HTML elements, and then

took a screenshot of that and then brought it into

Photoshop to clean it up, remove some of the

elements, and style it a bit differently.

· · · Q.· · Which website were you -- were you

implementing this on?

· · · A.· · lukew.com, my personal website.

· · · Q.· · And did you keep it as it's shown on

page -- as it's shown on page 59 of Exhibit P1, did

you keep it that way after you got your screenshot?

· · · A.· · There is a period of time that I kept it

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www.LexitasLegal.com/Premier Lexitas

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as the image of both, I believe.· I can find out

'cause I have renders of the website in a different

folder.

· · · Q.· · If you want to produce that information,

that would be great.

· · · A.· · Okay.

· · · Q.· · Off the top of your head, do you

remember if that was -- it was like this during --

after June 20, 2002?

· · · A.· · From what I remember is I took the

existing website, which is the screenshot you see

here.· Right?· I opened up that HTML file. I

started modifying it to adapt the breadcrumb to have

this navigational menu rendered as a drop-down.· And

then I took a screenshot of that, made some edits.

· · · · · · And what I believe was live in

production is the version that you see in the book

in the upper image, where the "Silver Wrapper

Productions" was illustrated as a --

what-you-ma-call-it?· It was rendered as a drop-down

menu.

· · · Q.· · And when was that live?

· · · A.· · I would have to look.· I don't know.

· · · Q.· · Okay.

· · · A.· · Somewhere around that time frame.· But

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MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY

Luke Wroblewski

www.LexitasLegal.com/Premier Lexitas

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· · · · · ·IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

· · · · · · FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

· · · · · · · · · · WACO DIVISION

CADDO SYSTEMS, INC., and· · · ·)

511 TECHNOLOGIES, INC.· · · · ·)· Case No.

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· 6:20-cv-245-ADA

· · · · · · · · ·Plaintiffs,· ·)

· · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY,· · · · · )

INCORPORATED,· · · · · · · · · )

· · · · · · · · ·Defendant.· · )

-------------------------------X

CADDO SYSTEMS, INC., and· · · ·)

511 TECHNOLOGIES, INC.· · · · ·)· Case No.

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· 6:20-cv-244-ADA

· · · · · · · · ·Plaintiffs,· ·)

· · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

NXP SEMICONDUCTORS N.V., et· · )

al.,· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)

· · · · · · · · ·Defendants.· ·)

_______________________________X

· · · · · · · REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION

· · VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF LUKE WROBLEWSKI

· · · · · · · · · OCTOBER 13, 2021

· · · · I, MAYLEEN AHMED, a Registered Merit

Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, and a Texas

and California Certified Shorthand Reporter, hereby

certify to the following:

· · · · That the witness, LUKE WROBLEWSKI, was

remotely duly sworn by me, and that the transcript

of the oral deposition is a true record of the

testimony given by the witness;

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Luke Wroblewski

www.LexitasLegal.com/Premier Lexitas

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CADDO SYSTEMS vs

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· · · · That said proceedings were taken remotely

before me on October 13, 2021, taken down

stenographically at the time therein set forth, and

thereafter transcribed by me;

· · · · That in accordance with FRCP 30(e), before

completion of the proceedings, review of the

transcript was not requested and signature was

waived by the witness.

· · · · I further certify that I am neither counsel

for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties

in the action in which this proceeding was taken,

and further that I am not financially or otherwise

interested in the outcome of this action.

· · · · Certified to by me on this 20th day of

October 2021.

· · · · · · __________________________________

· · · · · · /s/· MAYLEEN AHMED, RMR, CRR, CRC

· · · · · · Texas CSR No. 9428 - Exp 7/31/23

· · · · · · Washington CCR No. 3402 - Exp 12/29/21

· · · · · · Oregon CSR No. 17-0447 Exp 12/31/23

· · · · · · California CSR No. 14830 Exp 12/31/21

· · · · · · New York Notary Public

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MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY

Luke Wroblewski

www.LexitasLegal.com/Premier Lexitas

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CADDO SYSTEMS vs

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Luke Wroblewski

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