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In the matter of 

EMPIRE AIRLINES, INC 

DMS No. FAA-2009-0586 

= dJ 

FAA DOCKET NO 

CP09NM0009 

FAA Case No. 

2007NM700155 

Wednesday 

October 27, 2010 

U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the 

District of Oregon 

Portland Office 

1001 SW 5th Avenue 

Portland, Oregon 97204 

The above-entitled matter came on 

for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 9:03 p.m. 

BEFORE: 

THE HONORABLE RICHARD C. GOODWIN 

Administrative Law Judge 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Federal Aviation 

Administration; 

SCOTT R. MORRIS, ESQ. 

of: Office of Regional Counsel 

Federal Aviation Administration 

1601 Lind Avenue, S.W. 

Renton, Washington 98057 

(425) 227-1417 

fax -1007 

On Behalf of the Respondent 

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COURTNEY E. FELTS, ESQ. 

Senior Attorney 

of: Federal Express, Inc. 

3 620 Hacks Cross Road 

Building B, 3rd Floor 

Memphis, Tennessee 38125-

(901) 434-8632 

fax -8283 

•8800 

and 

LAWRENCE W. BIERLEIN, ESQ, 

1101 30th Street, N.W. 

Suite 500 

Washington, D.C. 20007 

(202) 625-8355 

fax -4363 

ALSO PRESENT: 

Kyle Lomazow, Esq., FAA 

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(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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f^ T-A-B-L-E 0-F C-0-N-T-E-N-T-S 

WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIR, 

Patrick N. Oppenheimer 128 151 

Richard Mills 166 184 198 

EXHIBITS MARKED RECEIVED 

C-16 Contract Between 

Empire and FEDEX 195 

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(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

(1:30 p.m.) 

JUDGE GOODWIN: They were done 

under an order of sequestration, so any 

potential witnesses who are not actually going 

to testify should wait out in the lobby. 

Ms. Felts, you want to call your 

first witness? 

MS. FELTS Call Patrick 

Oppenheimer. 

Whereupon, 

PATRICK OPPENHEIMER 

a witness, was called by Counsel for the 

Respondent and, having been first duly sworn, 

assumed the witness stand and was examined and 

testified as follows: 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Please be seated. 

And state your full name and spell your first 

and last names. 

THE WITNESS: My name is Patrick 

Neil Oppenheimer. That's spelled that 

P-A-T-R-I-C-K 0-P-P-E-N-H-E-I-M-E-R. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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JUDGE GOODWIN: Counsel? 

MS FELTS: One quick 

administrative matter before we do. Your 

Honor. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Sure. 

MS. FELTS: I wanted to make sure 

that the binder exhibit is up there on the 

stand with the witness. Yes. Thank you. 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. FELTS: 

Q Mr. Oppenheimer, can you please 

state your employer and the address? 

A I am employed by Federal Express. 

And the address is 3 67 0 Hacks Cross Road, 

Building G in Corporate Safety, Memphis, 

Tennessee 38125. 

Q 

title? 

A 

Programs 

position? 

(202) 234-4433 

Could you please state your job 

Senior Manager, Corporate Safety 

How long have you been in that 

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A I've been in Safety Management in 

Corporate Safety for about 15 years. In the 

current position about six years. 

Q How long have you been with the 

company on the whole? 

Thirty -- 3 6 years Over 3 6 

years. 

Q And in the course of your duties 

as the Senior Manager of Corporate Safety 

currently what are your responsibilities? 

A I'm responsible for safety 

programs which includes Dangerous Goods 

Administration and the Dangerous Goods 

Hotline. I have two managers that oversee 

those groups, and also a manager of Industrial 

Hygiene, Fire Prevention, Hearing Conservation 

and other miscellaneous safety programs. 

Q Okay. I'd like to turn your 

attention now, if I could, to the exhibit 

binder. The item at Tab C-1, which is the 

Complainant's Agent Statement. I'd 'like to 

direct your attention to the bottom of -- the 

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and Empire cannot speak to how FEDEX shipments 

got in the system. It's going to be relevant 

to Empire's defense to describe that 

JUDGE GOODWIN; Okay, Go ahead 

and ask it 

MS. FELTS: Okay. Thank you. 

BY MS. FELTS: 

Q Mr. Oppenheimer, if I could now 

turn your attention to Exhibit C-7, which is 

-- are you there? 

A Yes, I am. 7-1? 

Q Yes. What is that document? 

A It's a document that shows, 

basically, conveyance and scanning updates, if 

you will, every time a package changed 

conveyance or custody. 

Q The first entry mentions packaging 

and transmitted to FEDEX, and then, before the 

package is picked up, what does that mean or 

how is that possible? 

A That tells me that the shipment 

was processed on some type of FEDEX customer 

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proximity of that information in there, it --

it appears that, like for Portland, Oregon, 

it's a sort facility. I imagine that's the --

the station. But, depending upon operations, 

it could be the Portland station or a Portland 

ramp. Same with Medford, Oregon. They're a 

FEDEX facility, but I can't tell if it's a 

package terminal/station, or if it's just a 

ramp 

Okay. And then I want to have you 

flip back for just a moment. I'm sorry for 

the flipping back and forth. Back to the 

agents statement at C-1. 

A Okay. 

Q And it mentions -- well, in the 

first paragraph, it mentions the Medford, 

Oregon -- how the inspection started at the 

Medford, Oregon location and Empire Airlines 

Aircraft. How did an Empire Airlines Aircraft 

have FEDEX packages on it? 

A Well, Empire is one of a niimber of 

supplemental operators that we utilize 

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strictly for Lionhaul Services And by 

Lionhaul, we basically turn packages over to 

them to be flown from usually scheduled origin 

and destination ramps. We use then 

predominantly in the more rural areas where 

the package volume doesn't justify what we 

call a FEDEX trunk aircraft. 

In some locations, in -- for most 

of these situations, the supplemental 

operators are bulk loaded aircraft. But, in 

some instances, they're actually container 

loaded aircraft, in which we just basically 

transload containers from a FEDEX aircraft 

directly onto theirs. But, in this case, it 

was a bulk loaded aircraft. 

Q Okay. And I want to go back to 

something you mentioned before. You said we 

transload the items from FEDEX to the plane 

Empire's flying. Can you just talk more about 

that -- that process and how happens? 

A Well, at a FEDEX ramp, per se, 

inbound aircraft and -- and inbound meaning 

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the packages are coming in for that delivery 

area or region -- and, at that point, FEDEX 

employees will offload packages out of a FEDEX 

aircraft and/or FEDEX freight containers. And 

then they will load those onto the 

supplemental aircraft for a more download type 

destination. 

Again, usually a more rural type 

area. And on the other type situation, it's 

-- it's where packages are picked up in those 

rural areas, and then they're loaded by FEDEX 

employees -- handlers and ramp employees --

that then load those packages. And then, at 

the host ramp, they are then unloaded and then 

reloaded into FEDEX ULDs or freight 

containers, or bulk loaded on FEDEX aircraft. 

Q I want to back up a moment to 

something you mentioned now about when the 

package is picked up. When a package is 

picked up, what type of checks or inspection 

is done of the package? 

A Well, all --

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MR. MORRIS: Your Honor, again, 

objection. This is not dealing with the 

acceptance by FEDEX, The violations here are 

improper acceptance by Empire Air. We don't 

care about what happens in the east coast. 

But we care about what happens from Portland 

to Medford, 

Overruled. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: 

BY MS. FELTS: 

I understand. 

question? 

A 

Do you want me to repeat my 

No. 

Okay. 

The the process that a package 

goes through when it's picked up by a FEDEX 

employee -- first of all, all FEDEX employees 

go through awareness training. And when I say 

employees, whether it's a courier, whether 

it's a handler, whether it's a customer 

service agent, and the courier is an employee 

that's trained in courier practices to accept 

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1 packages and to process -- process them into 

2 the system as a -- and they're pick-up and 

3 delivery drivers. Handlers, on the other 

4 hand, have no responsibility for acceptance. 

5 And then CSA really is the same practice as a 

6 courier, except they do not pick up or deliver 

7 those packages. They do, in fact, all of 

8 those employees have annual handler dangerous 

9 codes awareness training. 

10 And that awareness training allows 

11 them to properly recognize, properly mark, 

12 label, and certify, when required, dangerous 

13 packages as well as information on being able 

14 to detect hidden dangerous goods or dangerous 

15 goods that may not have been offered as such. 

16 At the point the package is then 

17 processed, if it is a marked, labeled, and 

18 properly certified dangerous goods, at that 

19 point, hazard labels and/or markings dictate 

2 0 to the employee exactly how they have to be 

21 handled. For instance, some dangerous goods 

22 have to be segregated from others. But, as 

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far as a courier or CSA, their HAZMAT or 

dangerous goods training is limited to 

handling and recognition of dangerous goods. 

At that point, when the packages are collected 

and transported back to the station, any known 

marked, labeled, and certified dangerous goods 

packages are then segregated off to the side 

for another employee. And that employee may 

be a courier, it may be a CSA, it may be a 

handler or maybe a DG agent. 

But regardless of the title, if 

you will, those employees are trained as 

dangerous goods specialists and they undergo 

a significant amount of more training. 

Basically, it's a 40 hour initial with 

recurrent training. And that allows them to 

then look at the package; look the shipping 

papers; inspect it properly with the dangerous 

goods inspection checklist; and determine if 

the shippers made any errors on those -- on 

the package, on the -- whether it be marking, 

labeling, packaging, or shipping papers. 

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And, at that point, if it's 

acceptable, they then enter the information 

into the FEDEX Auto-DT manifest system, in 

order for that package then information to be 

assigned to a particular conveyance, whether 

it a unit load device, whether it be a feeder 

aircraft, or whether it be a trunk aircraft. 

And, at that point, every time that package 

changes conveyance, similar to the 

illustration that we looked at under seven, 

the tracking information, at that point, that 

information is then changes or relayed. Now, 

in the event that that package is rejected, at 

that point, the checklist is completed and the 

package is then returned to the shipper to 

make the necessary corrections before it's 

accepted. 

Q The packages that are not declared 

marked, labeled as DG, how are they processed? 

A Well, if they -- it's not marked 

or labeled as DG, at that point, they're 

processed as regular cargo at a station. They 

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would then be -- go down the -- basically, an 

input or sort belt, where handlers then load 

those packages into some type of conveyance, 

whether it be a baggage cart or whether it be 

a unit load device or freight container that's 

been transported to the ramp, if it's not a 

ramp location. And, at that point, those 

packages are then loaded onto the outbound 

aircraft 

Thank you. You mentioned a minute 

ago about Auto-DG. I want to come back to that 

because that's referenced in the agent's 

statement that we looked at in C-1-1. Could 

you please describe that system? 

A The Auto-DG system was one of the 

first, if not the first electronic automated 

dangerous goods manifesting system that I'm 

familiar with, at least. And I know that 

because we work very closely with both FAA and 

NTSB in -- in relation to that. And -- but 

what the system allows is -- it's a, first of 

all, relational database that is based on the 

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proper shipping name and UN niimber table from 

the Auto-regulations. Although we've also 

added some additional items in there that we 

accept, in addition to those dangerous goods 

that are in the Auto system, basically the RMD 

type materials. 

And, as such, when an employee --

a dangerous goods specialist -- when a package 

has completed the inspection process, the 

employee enters in into a computer terminal, 

basically. And it is a mainframe application. 

And when they enter the UN number, the system 

then populates and says, based on this UN 

number, select any of the appropriate proper 

shipping names associated with that UN number. 

Once that selection is made, they then confirm 

that the system tells them -- well, if it's, 

for instance, a UN-1203, it tells them that 

that's a class three, packing group two. They 

confirm that. They enter the quantity that's 

there in the package. The system would then 

also have an error check that would say if the 

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quantity was allowed for the shipment in 

question, whether it's authorized for 

passenger/cargo aircraft, shipper information, 

as well as any other specific information 

that's unique to that shipment. When that 

system was built, it was built to try to have 

as much error checking in it as possible. But 

everything can't be covered. 

So we try to cover that with a 

combination of training, as well as error 

checking in that application. But once that 

shipment is entered into that system, at that 

point, the ramp agent, dangerous goods 

specialist, will then assign that shipment to 

whatever conveyance they're loading it into. 

If it's being loaded into a unit load device 

or a freight container, they'll identify that. 

If it's being bulk loaded into an aircraft, 

they'll identify that it's being loaded into 

the aircraft and, at that point, what 

location. The weight and balance system 

actually interacts with the Auto-DG system to 

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actually identify specific load locations and 

so forth. It even has error checking for a 

certain materials, depending upon the type of 

aircraft and the acceptable loading locations. 

But every time that package then changes 

conveyance, the appropriate responsible 

personnel go in and then change the location 

or assign the package to that new conveyance, 

whether it be a new freight container, unit 

load device, or whether it be a new aircraft 

or vehicle. And so, once that system is 

there, in the event that there was an incident 

or accident and -- and there's query as to 

what's on board that aircraft, as well as a --

a ramp, when they're expecting their inbound 

aircraft, they are able to pull that manifest 

up and see exactly what's on board by UN 

number, by proper shipping name, and so forth. 

Now, the regulations -- that system goes 

beyond the regulations, in so far as we 

provide sub-totals of every hazard class, by 

location, that's loaded on board that 

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aircraft. 

And we've found that that was 

beneficial to emergency responders, even 

though the regulations didn't require it. So 

we sub-total those hazard classes by location. 

But most of the contents of Auto-DG is 

basically dictated by the regulations, as far 

as what we have to do to provide the 

notification to pilot. And we use that same 

system for driver manifests for over-the-road 

type routs, if you will. However, a pick-up 

and delivery driver may only have a shipping 

paper from the package for a driver manifest. 

Q Okay. And how is this Auto-DG 

system utilized in FEDEX feeder aircraft 

operations? 

A Well, the -- if it were a postramp that then launches feeder or supplemental 

aircraft, the host ramp, in fact, sees a 

listing of the inbound dangerous goods, and 

not only by UN number, but also by 

destination, 

(202) 234-4433 

And so tha t gives them. 

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1 basically, gives them the information they 

2 need to know what they're expecting off that 

3 inbound aircraft. Those packages then, once 

4 the aircraft comes in, they're then reloaded 

5 into the feeder aircraft -- the supplemental 

6 aircraft. And, at that point, the Auto-DG 

7 system is then accessed to an update, based on 

8 this tracking number therefore is on this 

9 aircraft and, therefore, the information 

10 associated with that tracking number, the 

11 dangerous goods related information, is then 

12 there. And that is then given to the pilot in 

13 command, who signs off on it that basically 

14 says this is your load of packages that are 

15 dangerous goods, as well as the system is 

16 updated. And that tells, basically anyone 

17 that has access to a FEDEX terminal, including 

18 myself at home on my laptop, if I've got 

19 connectivity to the FEDEX system. I could 

20 pull up any aircraft, as far as what's on 

21 board that aircraft, whether it be an arriving 

22 aircraft, a departing aircraft, or what have 

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Do any non-FEDEX employees have 

access to this system? 

A Not to my knowledge. 

Q Okay. 

A But, in the event that a non-FEDEX 

employee, like for instance an emergency 

responder, would say we've got a problem with 

this aircraft or we want that information, at 

that point, we can pull up the information and 

either fax it or provide that information to 

a non-employee. 

Q What about in the feeder aircraft 

context if there is an issue or discrepancy or 

change that needs to be made, how does that 

change -- who makes that change and how is 

that made? 

A Well, it would have to be made by 

a FEDEX personnel. They're — only FEDEX 

personnel that are trained in the use of AutoDG can update the system. And the FEDEX AutoDG system, if you were to sign on to it as an 

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information. But unless you had Auto-DG 

training, you could not update the 

information. 

Q Okay. And how many supplemental 

feeder -- or supplemental aircraft or often 

known as feeder operators -- does FEDEX 

utilize? 

A Approximately 350. And that's a 

good estimate. And they range from the Cesna 

aircraft, the ATR aircraft, which are all bulk 

loaded, to also 757s and 727s that some people 

might refer to them as wet lease, but they're 

still supplemental feeder aircraft. 

Q How many operators of those 

aircraft -- use those aircraft? 

A Primarily, six or seven. 

Q Okay. 

A I don't deal with them directly. 

Q And is the process you outlined, 

with regard to the package transfer and the 

Auto-DG information, is that processed the 

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Yes. 

Q The feeder? Okay. I wanted to 

come back briefly to something you mentioned. 

When I asked you about if a discrepancy or 

change needed to be made to the Auto-DG 

system, who would make that change. And you 

said FEDEX personnel. I want to direct you to 

some facts that are in this case. Looking at 

the agent's statement, back -- we're still on 

C-1-1. The second full paragraph which starts 

with the Auto-DG manifest carried by Empire 

flight 8678-22. Do you see where it says that 

the manifest listed an incorrect aircraft 

location, but the pilot carried with him a 

feeder aircraft load control sheet that had 

the correct location? Do you see that? 

A Yes. 

Q Do you -- can you explain how that 

possibly -- how that happened, or what was the 

issue there? 

MR, MORRIS: Objection, Your 

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Honor. That is speculation and he's not 

identified as an expert. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: I will sustain 

unless you can lay a foundation, 

MS. FELTS: Okay. 

Q 

BY MS. FELTS: 

Let me reformulate that question. 

I'll need a moment, please. You mentioned 

earlier that a change in Auto-DG would have to 

be made by a FEDEX employee. Correct? 

A Yes. 

Q If there was incorrect information 

-- if someone other than a FEDEX employee 

brought notice of incorrect information, would 

that employee be able to make -- would that 

non-employee be able to input the change? 

A No, they would not. 

Q Let's go back to the actual fleet 

the supplemental aircraft fleet. You 

mentioned approximately 350. Are those FEDEX 

aircraft -- FEDEX owned aircraft? 

A The majority of them are FEDEX 

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owned. 

Q Okay. 

A They're FEDEX owned. They have 

the FEDEX livery or signage on that. But they 

are not operated by FEDEX employees. They're 

not maintained by FEDEX employees. They're 

maintained by, basically, the -- the operators 

that we've basically awarded contracts to, to 

operate and maintain those aircraft. The 

majority of those are not owned -- I'm sorry, 

the majority are owned by FEDEX. There's some 

aircraft, though, that are -- are larger that 

-- the 727s and the 757 and so forth, that are 

wet leased, So that's that's the 

difference, if you will. But, when people 

refer to feeder aircraft that's utilized in 

the FEDEX system, for the most part, those are 

owned aircraft by FEDEX, 

Q Thank you. I have nothing further 

for this witness. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Cross? 

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training, to be able to recognize ORMDs. 

Q Okay. Now, did you review the 

transcript of Mr. Waddy, the person who 

accepted this shipment back on the east coast? 

A I did, at one time. Yes. 

Q Okay. 

A I've not recently reviewed it. 

Q Now, you talked about the 

training. But you recall Mr. Waddy's 

testimony during his deposition, that he 

didn't know what "NORD" marking was. 

A Yes. 

Q And he didn't know where the 

shipping papers were. So how does that match 

with your people who accept these shipments 

being familiar with the indicators of 

potential hazardous materials? 

A Well, the -- I -- I do recall also 

looking at the training records for that 

individual know that that employee had 

multiple years of awareness training. But, at 

the same time, if that's not their every day 

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function -- in other words, if they don't see 

frequent dangerous goods packages and so 

forth, it's a challenge for them to recall all 

the information that they received in that 

course, as well as many other training courses 

that we require them to learn. Now, why they 

didn't recognize the term ORMD, I can say if 

you probably -- if you talked to a dangerous 

goods specialist, they would say I recognize 

that. And many non-specialists would 

recognize that. But because it really isn't 

a common dangerous or HAZMAT term, even though 

we give them that type training every year, 

I'm really not that surprised that every once 

in a while you'll see someone that -- that 

doesn't immediately recognize it. 

Q I just want to make sure I heard 

and understand your testimony. Are you saying 

that the ORMD marking is not commonly seen in 

transportation? 

A I'm saying the ORMD marking has no 

pictorial hazard label that goes with it. So 

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therefore, in an employee's association, where 

their regular job is not dangerous goods 

handling, that may be a challenge. 

Q Okay. Now, for a person that's 

handling one of your packages, how do they 

know where a given shipment is going, given 

the speed at which FEDEX prides itself in 

processing these cases or processing these 

shipments? 

A Well, a lot of that is done 

electronically. They -- if a shipper has 

processed the shipment on a automated type 

system, the system will then put in what we 

call an URSA routing code on there. And to be 

brutally honest with you, the employee really 

doesn't care where it's going because the 

system is then going to route that package, 

based on package scans. 

Q And that's what I was getting at. 

the package scans. If you turn to Exhibit C8-2 

(202) 234-4433 

Yes, sir. 

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Q The photograph. Do you see the 

photograph> 

A Yes. 

Q Now, when this shipment came off 

of -- at Portland, and was being broken down, 

it had to have been scanned, correct? 

Yes. 

Okay, And, as part of that 

scanning, in the process in Portland, they had 

to put stuff in various areas or bins, because 

not all aircraft fly to the same location. 

A That's correct. 

Q So how would someone at Portland 

be able to identify that this box was going to 

the Medford airport? 

A By the URSA routing code. 

Q And is that that XHMMRA? 

A Yes, it is. 

Q Okay. What does XH represent? 

A Actually, I couldn't -- I believe 

it -- it has to do with the type product 

service, 

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Q Okay. Priority, overnight? 

A Yes. One of the services. 

Q Okay. And the MMRA is the 

indication for Medford Airport? 

A Right. 

Q So the person who is handling this 

box off-loading it, after it's being broken 

down, and scanning it, has to look at the MMRA 

to know okay, this is going to Medford, as 

opposed to going to Bend, Oregon, as an 

example. 

A The -- if the packages were being 

handled separately, yes. It's -- it's also --

sometimes they would have ULDs of packages, 

where the ULD is identified, or freight 

containers identified as needing to go to a 

particular destination. 

Q Okay. Do we have any indication 

that a 208 can handle a ULD? 

A Actually, we know it can't. 

Q We know it cannot, correct? 

A That is correct. This is not a 

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containerized loaded aircraft. 

Q So it has to -- even if something 

came from Memphis to Portland, any ULD, it has 

to be taken out of the ULD so it can be packed 

into a Cesna 208? 

A If, in fact, that route has a 208 

assigned to it, that's correct. 

Q And well we know it has a 2 08, in 

this case, don't we? 

A In this case it did, yes. 

Q Okay. So we know that someone had 

to physically move that package from either a 

ULD or a pallet, break it down, and then scan 

it to put it onto a shipment going on a Cesna 

2 08, that's bound for Medford? 

A That's correct. 

Q Okay. So we know that, at the 

time, someone had to look at that scan in 

Portland to scan it, to know that it's going 

to Medford? 

A That's correct. 

Q Okay. So how -- do you have any 

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explanation for how the person, not only on 

the east coast, but the person in Portland who 

has that scan bar, literally adjacent to the 

ORMD, would miss something like that, given 

the training you say that you give to your 

couriers and handlers? 

A Yes, sir. The handler that is 

handling a package that has already been in 

conveyance is -- is not doing any type of 

inspection for acceptance. They're basically 

handling the package, based on the routing 

and, as you indicated, the XH, at that point, 

they know it's just a normal general commodity 

type package. And when you look at a package, 

these -- these packages are brown and they 

seem to have -- only have that one marking 

near the tracking number, as well as a green 

label that I'm not familiar with. But many 

packages have got product marking, tracking, 

instructions to the end deliverer and so 

forth. And I'll be brutally honest with you, 

after the point of acceptance, at that point. 

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there's not a lot of detail looked at for 

other than hazard markings and labels and --

and so forth. Now, in the event -- this 

particular case, if their inbound manifest had 

told them there were ORMDs that were in that 

package, they would be looking for those 

packages and making sure that they were 

processed correctly and matched the Dangerous 

Goods Manifest, 

Q Okay, And I appreciate the 

challenge that FEDEX has. But FEDEX system 

seems to be designed in one of two ways. If 

it's identified as HAZMAT acceptance, it goes 

through one channel. If it's not identified 

as HAZMAT, it goes through another channel. 

But isn't the real challenge in the HAZMAT, as 

you alluded to, is when it's improperly marked 

or improperly identified and there's an issue 

of HAZMAT? Are you saying that FEDEX has no 

system in place or any responsibility to catch 

that or any of the subsequent air operators to 

catch that while it's in air transport? 

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A Safe transportation of dangerous 

goods is everybody's responsibility. And --

and we consider that a responsibility at the 

time of acceptance, as well as any time the 

packages that are -- that just happen to be 

identified as not being proper, once they go 

past the point of acceptance, that would be 

brought up to a -- a proper dangerous goods 

specialist 

Q So you acknowledge that an air 

operator cannot turn a blind eye to a readily 

apparent indication that there's hazardous 

material that's inconsistent with what's being 

described on papers or not being described on 

shipping papers? 

A Well, I -- I can't tell you about 

other carriers. But I can tell you that we do 

not turn a blind eye to other indications it 

might be a dangerous goods. But yes, I'll --

I'll agree with you on one thing, and that is, 

it is a challenge. And that's the reason that 

we invest in our employees and -- and train 

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our employees with a lot more frequency than 

the regulations require. 

Q Okay. Now, you talked about the 

DG system is used by six or seven separate 

operators, earlier. Correct? 

A Our feeder aircraft operators are 

a number of primary contractors, if you will. 

Q Okay. Yes. Okay. And you talked 

about how FEDEX owns all these aircraft. 

A Yes, sir 

Q Are you aware, in the aviation 

industry, it is common for companies will use 

like United or Delta or Frontier, not to own 

the aircraft, but to actually lease their 

aircraft? 

A Sure. 

Q So that fact that one owns an 

aircraft is not indicative that they are the 

operator of the aircraft, is it? 

A Absolutely not. 

Q Because, what drives the train on 

who the operator is, is what their air carrier 

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certificate says, correct' 

That, now I'm -- I don't think 

that I'm knowledgeable enough in that area to 

be able to comment on that 

Okay. Well, you alluded to. 

earlier, when the pilot on any given flight is 

ultimately responsible for his or her 

aircraft. You acknowledged that standard in 

the aviation industry? 

A I acknowledge the standard. Yes. 

Q Okay. And so, the pilot in the 

one case, in the first flight that arrived in 

Medford, Oregon, he made the decision to 

change the location of that HAZMAT cargo load 

location. And he has the authority to do 

that, doesn't he? 

A That's correct. 

Q Because it's his responsibility 

for that aircraft and everything aboard it, 

whether it be cargo or persons. They have the 

final say. Correct? 

Yes 

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JUDGE GOODWIN: Just say yes or 

no 

THE WITNESS: Yes 

BY MR. MORRIS: 

Q Okay. And, in this case, in that 

particular case, there was, in fact, a change 

in the location of the hazardous materials 

from the main cargo, as indicated by the DG 

program, to what was actually the actual 

location of the hazardous material when it 

arrived in Medford? 

A Yes. There was a change that was 

dictated by the captain. 

Q Okay. And that change was not 

reflected down line, because it was not input 

by somebody in the DG system? 

A It's my understanding that the 

pilot had an accurate version, but the online 

system was not updated. That's correct. 

Q Okay. Nothing further, sir. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Redirect? 

MS. FELTS: No, Your Honor. 

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JUDGE GOODWIN: Are you finished 

with this witness then? 

MS. FELTS: Yes, Your Honor. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. Again, 

you're instructed not to discuss your 

testimony or any other matter of the hearing. 

Is he going to be subject to recall? The safe 

thing to do is have him wait outside, 

MS, FELTS: We don't anticipate 

recalling him. Your Honor. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. Then you 

can remain in the hearing room. But, in doing 

so, he won't be subject to recall. 

MS. FELTS: Understood. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: All right. 

excused.) 

witness? 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Do you have a next 

MS. FELTS: Yes, Your Honor. We 

call Richard Mills. 

(202) 234-4433 

MR. MORRIS: And while he's coming 

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on board, I think I'm going to step out for a 

minute, 

(Whereupon, off the record 9:42 

a.m. until 9:44 a.m. for break and tape 

change.) 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Please be seated, state 

your full name for the record, and spell your 

first and last names. 

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. My name 

is Richard Mills. That's R-I-C-H-A-R-D 

M-I-L-L-S. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Thank you. Okay, 

Counsel. 

Whereupon, 

RICHARD MILLS 

a witness, was called by Counsel for the 

Respondent and, having first been duly sworn, 

assumed the witness stand and was examined and 

testified as follows: 

DIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. FELTS: 

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Q Mr. Mills, would you please state 

the name of your employer and your business 

address? 

A My employer is Empire Airlines. 

The address is 11559 North Atlas Road. That's 

located in Hayden, Idaho. That's H-A-Y-D-E-N. 

And the Zip is 83858. 

Q What is your job title at Empire 

Airlines? 

A Currently, my job title at Empire 

Airlines is the Director of Quality Assurance. 

For FAA purposes, I am the Chief Inspector. 

Q How long have you been in that 

position? 

A I've been in that position 

approximately one year 

Q Have you had previous positions 

with Empire Airlines? 

A Yes, I did. I was previously the 

Director of Safety and Compliance, a job that 

I held with Empire from the time of the 

initiation of my employment on October 1st of 

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2001, until about a year ago 

A 

Until about a year ago? 

Yes. 

Q Let's focus on your job duties and 

responsibilities in that title, since that 

kind of corresponds with the time of the 

issues raised in this matter. Please describe 

what your job duties and responsibilities were 

as the Director of Safety and Compliance. 

A As the Director of Safety and 

Compliance, I had a number of 

responsibilities, not the least of which was 

the development and the -- the fostering of a 

-- a safety culture at Empire Airlines, both 

for purposes of flight safety and for 

industrial safety for our mechanics. It was 

my responsibility to develop our safety 

program and we did that, basically, in 

accordance with the guidance that has been 

available with regard to safety management 

systems I was responsible for the 

development and the maintenance of an 

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emergency response program for the company. 

And, in addition, the compliance portion of my 

responsibilities had to do specifically with 

regard to interaction with the FAA, primarily 

in the area of flight standards, but -- but 

hazardous material, as well. 

Q What type of services does Empire 

Airlines provide? 

A Empire Airlines provides a 

regional cargo service. They do that for 

Federal Express. They essentially carry 

packages for FEDEX from hubs to more rural 

portions of America and return to the hubs 

with packages that are -- that are accepted by 

FEDEX at those remote stations 

Q Does Empire provide that service 

for any other company? 

A They do not. 

Q And, with regard to the service it 

provides for FEDEX, how is that arrangement 

set up? Is it documented or is it just on a 

nod and a hand shake? How? 

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A I'm quite sure it's documented. I 

-- I -- to be candid with you, with regard to 

the -- the mechanics off the -- of the 

agreement between FEDEX and Empire Airlines, 

I'm not necessarily privy to those. I do know 

that the aircraft that Empire Airlines 

operates are all owned by FEDEX. All of those 

aircraft are essentially provided to Empire 

Airlines by FEDEX and are on Empire Airlines 

FAA operating certificate, specifically in the 

operations specifications. 

Q And your answer preempted two of 

my next questions. So thank you for your 

efficiency. 

A Oh, I'm sorry. Sure. 

Q The next question I have is with 

regard to the crew members that fly these 

planes. Are they Empire employees? 

A They are Empire Airlines 

employees, yes. 

Q They wear Empire uniforms? 

A Yes, they do. 

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Q Empire pays them? 

A I'm sorry? 

Q Empire pays them? 

A Yes. 

Q Okay. Let's talk now about these 

crew members and the training they receive 

from Empire. You mentioned earlier that 

that's part of your purview as the Safety and 

Compliance Director. What type of training is 

provided to Empire Airlines employees -- crew 

members. 

assuming? 

Specifically , pilots . 

Crew members, yes, sir 

I 'm 

A Okay. Crew members. Empire 

Airlines provides a variety of training. 

Either -- either directly or by contract, as 

one might expect. In this day and age, a lot 

of the training is out-sourced to operations 

similar to, for example, flight -- Flight 

Safety International, who provides training, 

specifically flight training, simulator 

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training and some ground training. Empire 

Airlines directly provides its crew members 

with training that is specific to Empire 

Airlines policies and procedures, those that 

may differ from -- from manufacturers' 

recommendations with regard to the aircraft. 

And they also provide training, 

familiarization training with hazardous 

materials 

And let's talk more about that 

aspect of the training. That goes to the next 

question I have. Tell us more about the 

hazardous materials familiarization training 

you mentioned. 

A I -- in all candor, the -- I can 

tell you about the -- I can tell you about the 

duration of that training. Typically, it is 

about one days worth of training by -- by our 

training personnel. And again, that -- it's 

-- it's familiarization on -- on hazardous 

material requirements and -- and it's held in 

a -- in a classroom situation, as a -- as part 

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of ground school. 

Q Does that training cover crew 

members' responsibilities, expectations, and 

duties with regard to FEDEX packages? 

A I would say yes it does. 

Q And what does that cover? 

A Essentially, the -- the training 

has to do with the crew members -- the 

expectation that Empire has with regard to the 

crew members as -- during, for example, the 

loading process and, more specifically, the 

general loading process and the dangerous 

goods loading loading process The 

expectation is that, first of all, the -- the 

pilot -- his primary responsibility, as I'm 

sure you're -- you're aware, is to perform a 

pre-flight of the aircraft and to insure that 

the aircraft is air worthy. And part of that 

air worthiness is also that the crew is 

expected to monitor the loading of the 

aircraft, not specifically with regard to the 

individual packages, but more about the 

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loading from a weight and balance standpoint, 

which is also an -- an air worthiness issue. 

The -- the training specific to hazardous 

materials has to do with the paperwork that 

they may -- they may expect to see delivered 

to the aircraft, to them, specifically, by the 

dangerous goods specialist or the FEDEX 

dangerous good specialist, who presents them 

with a list of those items that are going to 

be carried aboard the aircraft. The captain 

or the -- the crew member is trained with 

regard to insuring that they -- first of all, 

that they have all the proper -- proper 

paperwork before departure. And they're also 

trained specifically with regard to insuring 

that the -- the packages that are -- that are 

presented as dangerous goods, hazardous 

materials, match what's on the -- what's on 

the Auto-DG. And I'm sure there's been enough 

discussion about Auto-DG that I don't need to 

go into that. 

Q Okay. Very good. With regard to 

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the DG paperwork that Empire would receive 

from FEDEX, as you mentioned, what is a crew 

member, an Empire crew member trained to do 

with respect to what he or she should do if 

they notice something out of sort on the 

paperwork or incorrect, or something needing 

change? 

A They are instructed that if they 

-- if they find something -- if they find a --

a disagreement, if you will, between the AutoDG paperwork and the -- and that material 

that's presented, let's say, for example, if 

there's -- if there's an additional package 

that does not -- is not shown on the --on the 

Auto-DG, they are instructed to get together 

with the DG specialist and do one of two 

things. Either to have -- have them insure 

that that -- that particular package is noted 

on -- on the Auto-DG, or to remove it from the 

shipment and not -- so that it will not be 

carried on board the aircraft. 

Q Okay. 

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A The -- if, for example, there is a 

-- there is a package shown on Auto-DG that 

isn't presented, then the crew member is 

expected to have the DG specialist correct the 

Auto-DG to reflect exactly what goes on the 

airplane 

Does the crew member have access 

to the Auto-DG system to make that correction 

him or herself? 

A They do not. They do not. It is 

a computerized -- a computerized system. I 

don't have any first hand familiarity with it. 

But, as a -- as a standard practice, we -- we, 

being Empire Airlines -- are aware that we 

have -- have no access to FEDEX computer 

mainframe, which is apparently where this --

that -- that particular material is kept. 

Q Okay. And you mentioned earlier 

about loading -- part of the pilot's preflight responsibilities, you mentioned 

loading. Do the pilots actually physically 

load the plane with packages? 

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A No, ma'am. They do not, 

Q Who does that? 

A The ramp agents for FEDEX, folks 

who are trained specifically to load the 

aircraft and to conduct the loading 

operations, 

Q Okay, And then let's kind of 

narrow our focus now and talk about this 

subject matter that's the subject of this 

little penalty action. How did you first 

become aware that the FAA had initiated an 

investigation into Empire regarding these 

matters? 

Considering it was a long time 

ago, I believe the first -- the first notice 

that I had was that we received a -- a letter 

of investigation from -- from Mr. Steiger. 

Q Had you ever been involved in a 

similar situation -- dealt with a similar 

situation before an FAA investigation 

regarding hazardous materials? 

Candidly, at this point, I don't 

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-- this was my first. 

Q Okay. Mr. Mills, let's talk about 

the letter of investigation you received. 

And, specifically, I want to talk about what 

you did in response to it. And could you 

please describe that? 

A When we received the letter of 

investigation, typically, part of my 

responsibilities as as the the 

compliance person with Empire Airlines is to 

consult with the particular department that 

may be involved in a -- in a letter of 

investigation. Typically, the ones that we 

see -- candidly, the ones that we see more --

more frequently are -- are letters of 

investigation from a flight standards aspect. 

And those are generally disposed of relatively 

quickly. But with regard to -- with regard to 

this particular situation, I consulted with my 

Director of Operations, who is immediately 

responsible for our crew members and their 

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activities with regard to hazardous materials. 

And so that's exactly what I did. My Director 

of Operations and I consulted on the issue. 

Being their immediate supervisor, he contacted 

the crew members that were involved. He 

gathered the information; did the interviews 

with the crew members to determine what they 

-- what, if anything, they -- they knew about 

these -- these particular situations; and, 

based on that, my Director of Operations and 

I crafted our response to that letter of 

investigation. 

Q And what type of follow-up or 

corrective action was done by Empire in 

response to or in connection with the matters 

raised in this issue with the letter of 

investigation? 

A Well, specifically, considering 

there were two -- there were two particular 

incidents kind of in one on this, let me --

let me address them separately. With regard 

to the positioning of HAZMAT materials from 

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the main deck of the aircraft to the -- to the 

pod, what we were -- what we were told and --

and what we believed to have happened was that 

the -- the captain requested of the DG 

specialist that that particular load be placed 

in the pod. The DG specialist had no -- had 

no reason why -- why that couldn't be done. 

He said that was acceptable And he 

appropriately did a pen and ink change -- or 

a pen and pencil -- a pen and paper change of 

the Auto-DG, which, in our -- in our manual at 

that time, it was an acceptable practice. The 

-- if the -- if the DG specialist made a 

change to the -- to the Auto-DG and if a 

package was moved, he could make that change 

in pen and ink. And the expectation was that, 

after that had been made, he would go back to 

-- go back to the computer and change the 

computer to reflect what had actually -- how 

the aircraft had actually been loaded. As --

as I'm sure it's already become abundantly 

clear, that change -- the electronic change 

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1 was not made. And, as a result, my Director 

2 of Operations and I consulted on this and 

3 determined that the appropriate thing to do 

4 was not put ourselves in jeopardy in the 

5 future and that any change that was made to 

6 the Auto-DG, prior to departure, the DG 

7 specialist would have to go back and initiate 

8 that change electronically, reprint the Auto9 DG, and present him with a printed copy of how 

10 exactly the aircraft was loaded. With regard 

11 to the -- the other situation, frankly, we --

12 there -- there was no apparent change to --

13 that -- that we could reasonably make that --

14 that might prevent that -- the ORMD boxes from 

15 being loaded aboard -- aboard the aircraft. 

16 The captain had, in that particular case, had 

17 no -- had not idea at all that those boxes had 

18 been presented because, first of all, there 

19 was no paperwork on those -- on those boxes. 

20 As -- as certainly we -- we responded in our 

21 -- in our letter in response to the -- in 

22 response to the letter of investigation, it's 

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typical and anyone -- anyone who -- who is 

familiar with ramp operations and has watched 

loading is aware that, if you have a box that 

is longer in one dimension than the others, 

typically, when the -- when those boxes are 

put on the belt loader and they are hand 

loaded onto the aircraft, they're typically 

put longitudinally on the -- on the belt 

loader, end to end. And I think the pictures 

even in the -- that were provided with the 

letter of investigation showed that what ORND 

marking were there were on the ends of the 

box. And reasonably, the -- the captain is 

not -- no crew member is expected to handle 

each and every box. And, for purposes of this 

particular incident, this was just another 

box, because there was no paperwork with it. 

They had nothing to -- no visual cue -- no cue 

at all that those particular boxes might 

contain anything but grandmother's cookies or 

-- or whatever else. So -- so we -- we 

consulted about it. We discussed it. And, 

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quite frankly, there was nothing -- there was 

nothing we felt that was practical for us to 

-- to put in place to -- to try to prevent a 

recurrence. 

Q And why is that? 

A Because Empire Airlines did not 

accept the -- did not accept those boxes for 

shipment. They -- and, like I said, there was 

no -- was no paperwork with them. Again --

and again, the captain -- the captain's 

responsibility is not to handle each and every 

box. The captain's responsibility lies with 

the aircraft, insuring the air worthiness and 

to make sure that in the -- when the aircraft 

is ultimately loaded, that it is loaded within 

the limitations of weight and balance. 

Q And I know we're talking about two 

flights. This letter of investigation 

referenced two flights. 

Yes. 

Q How many crew members were working 

each flight? 

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A One One crew member with each 

flight. The captain of -- of that aircraft. 

Q Okay. Thank you. Nothing further 

for this witness. Your Honor. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Cross? 

CROSS EXAMINATION 

BY MR. MORRIS: 

Q Mr. Mills, just to go over a 

couple of things. The pilot's wearing an 

Empire uniform? 

A Yes, sir. That's correct. 

Q They're trained by Empire? 

A They are. 

Q They're paid by Empire? 

A Yes, sir. They are, 

Q Each of the aircraft that Empire 

operates has an operated by Empire Air sticker 

on it, down by the cargo door, doesn't it? 

A I believe it does. Yes. 

Q That's because it's required under 

119-9B of the Federal Aviation Regulations to 

identify who the operator of the aircraft is, 

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right? 

Yes, sir 

Q So you. talked about flight 

standards. Let's talk about that for a little 

bit. I'm assuming you understand the air 

carrier certification concept? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q And Empire has an air carrier 

certificate? 

A Yes, sir. It does. 

Q It doesn't say FEDEX does it? 

A No, sir. It does not. 

Q It says Empire Airlines. 

A It does, indeed. 

Q Okay. And part of the air carrier 

certificates are its operation specifications? 

A That is affirmative. 

Q And the operations specifications 

are basically the contract with the FAA about 

the things that it can and cannot do with its 

maintenance, its operations, where it can fly, 

when it can fly, and what aircraft it can fly. 

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A Yes, sir. 

Q And D-85 of Empire Aircraft's 

operations specifications tells you which 

aircraft are on Empire Air's operations 

specifications, does it not? 

A That is correct. 

Q Okay. And that means Empire Air 

can only operate those given aircraft on its 

operations -- for its operations? 

A Yes, sir, under that particular 

certificate. That is correct. 

Q Okay. And there is a process by 

which, if Empire wants to add or delete an 

aircraft off its op-specs, that it has to do 

so in coordination with the FAA? 

A Yes, sir. That's correct. 

Q And the reason for that is there's 

an interest in identifying which air carrier 

is operating which aircraft in air commerce. 

A I can only presume that that' s 

correct. 

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Q Okay. Your aircraft are not on 

FEDEX'S operation specifications, are they? 

A No, sir. They are not. 

Q They are solely your own? 

A Yes, sir. That's correct. 

And Empire Aircraft has 

operational control over all of its aircraft. 

don't they? 

A Yes, sir, 

Q Because, if they don't have 

operational control, they don't have an air 

carrier certificate, do they? 

I'm sorry. Would you restate that 

question? 

Yes I f you don' t have 

operational control of the aircraft, you don't 

get to have an air carrier certificate. 

correct? 

That's correct. 

Q Okay. And one of the thing that 

is required in the air carrier certificate is 

to have various manuals that are either 

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accepted or acceptable to the administrator? 

A Yes, sir. 

Q Okay. And one of those is the 

general operations manual. 

Yes, sir. It is. 

And, within your general 

operations manual, since you were the Director 

of Safety, I'm assuming that you're aware of 

the extract dealing with Empire Air as a will 

carry air carrier of hazardous materials? 

A Yes, sir. I am. 

Q And in that excerpt from your 

general operations manual, the company is 

required to follow, as part of its contract 

for its air carrier certificate for the FAA, 

is it not? 

Q 

Yes, sir, 

Okay. Would you turn to C-11? On 

page 11-44. Excuse me, 11-41. 

A All right, sir. Got it. 

Q Do you see on the top where it 

talks about Appendix G, FEDEX procedures? 

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1 A I do. 

2 Q In loading? 

3 A Yes. 

4 Q What does A-2 say is the 

5 responsibility of the crew member is? 

6 A The -- a -- a crew member must 

7 supervise the loading of DG. 

8 Q Okay. 

9 A The requirements of compatibility, 

10 separation distances, accessibility, security, 

11 and package orientation must be checked, using 

12 Empire Airline's EA-DGL form. Dangerous Goods 

13 Loading. 

14 Q Okay. And A-1 says what? 

15 A Loading and unloading of DG is 

16 handled by FEDEX ramp personnel. During the 

17 loading, the DG is separated from other 

18 freight so the crew member may accomplish the 

19 pre-loading inspection. 

2 0 Q So the crew member is responsible 

21 for inspecting what goes on his or her own 

22 aircraft, as part of the pre-inspection? 

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A I'd say that was -- that was 

accurate. Yes. 

Q Okay. Now, if you would turn to 

photographs in C-8. Go to C-8-1, 

A Okay, 

Q And the number 940FRX, that's an 

Empire Air aircraft, right? 

A That is on our operating 

specifications, yes, 

Q Okay. And do you see how -- see 

how these packages are on the rollers? 

A Yes, sir. I do. 

Q Do you see how they're sideways 

like that? 

A I do. 

Q And that's how they're loaded and 

unloaded because it saves space and ease in 

the speeding of the loading and unloading of 

the packages, correct? 

A I don't know that this is a 

representative photograph of -- of the typical 

loading operations I personally 

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personally witnessed -- witnessed loading that 

did not -- didn't look like this. 

Q Okay. But I will represent to you 

that this photograph was taken on August 22, 

2007, during the off-loading operations at 

Medford, Oregon. 

A No, I don't have any doubt of 

that. 

Q Okay. Do you see where the -- see 

how the labels are all facing one direction? 

A Yes. Actually -- and may I ask a 

question? 

Q No. 

A All right. Then I won't. 

Q Okay. Now, going back to the 

incident where the pilot made the change in 

the location of the aircraft. The pilot has 

every authority to do that, doesn't he? 

A Yes, he does. 

Q Because he is ultimately 

responsible, or she is ultimately responsible 

for the safe operation of that aircraft. 

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A That is correct. 

Q And whether it be he or she is 

uncomfortable with the location of the HAZMAT 

in relations to them, or a weight and balance, 

or a loading issue, they can make that call 

because they are representing Empire Air in 

the operation of Empire Air's aircraft. 

correct? 

A Absolutely. 

Okay. And, in that case, you 

acknowledge that the pilot directed the change 

in the location of that DG from the main hold, 

down into the pod seat? 

A That's what I believe, yes. 

Q Okay. What didn't happen was his 

desire being communicated through some sort of 

system, saying hey, I've made this change, 

handle it. No change in the paperwork. 

A No, sir. I don't think that's a 

clear -- that's a clear characterization. My 

understanding is the crew member had a 

conversation specifically with the DG 

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specialist and requested that it be done. And 

the DG specialist agreed. And they -- and he 

made the change on the paper and he handed it 

to the -- to the crew member, and they moved 

the -- moved the box. 

Q Okay. So, in this case, he saw 

that he had HAZMAT -- he had class A corrosive 

material, okay. Bad things for airplanes. 

right? 

A Okay. 

Q Corrosives tend to eat aluminum. 

A Okay. 

Q So, is that correct? 

A That's correct. 

Q Okay. So he had the authority and 

made the direction to change the location from 

the fuselage, down into the pod? 

A That's correct. 

Q And he communicated that to 

someone else, with the expectation that that 

communication would be continued to Empire's 

end station, down range? 

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That's correct. That station 

would also, of course, be FEDEX'S end station. 

Q Right. Understood. Now, if I 

understand correctly, you talked about you 

were not quite familiar with the mechanics of 

the agreement between Empire Air and FEDEX? 

A That is correct. 

Q Are you aware of the pressures 

associated with the on time requirements from 

FEDEX to Empire Air? 

MS. FELTS: Objection. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Overruled. 

THE WITNESS: I'm aware that there 

is an expectation on the part of our customer 

-- our customer being FEDEX -- that we will 

provide service on time. That is correct. 

Q 

BY MR. MORRIS 

Are you aware that the contract 

provides a 98 percent rate of completion on 

all routes and a 98 percent on time at 

arrival/departure rate? 

A I'm not aware of that. And -- and 

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let me be more specific. I -- I'm not certain 

that that's an accurate representation. 

Q Oh. Okay, 

A Or, at least, I have no knowledge 

of that. 

(Whereupon, a brief, off the 

record discussion.) 

MS. FELTS: I have a copy. That's 

fine 

MR. MORRIS: I'd have this marked 

next in order --it would be what, C-15 or 11? 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Sixteen. 

MR. MORRIS: This would be C-16? 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Fifteen is a full 

picture of November 8, 2007. So this will be 

marked as Complainant's 16. 

(Whereupon, the document 

w a s marke d a s 

Complainant's 16 for the 

record.) 

Q 

(202) 234-4433 

BY MR. MORRIS: 

Now, I' d lik e you t o go - - jus t t o 

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WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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make it easier, I'm going to find it for you. 

Let me ask your indulgence for a moment, sir. 

It is twelve pages from the back. Doesn't the 

contract between Empire and FEDEX say lessee 

will maintain, during each scheduled month of 

the term, as determined by Federal -- meaning 

Federal Express -- a 98 percent rate of 

completion on all routes and a 98 percent on 

time arrival/departure rate, exclusive of 

cancellations or delays caused by weather or 

any other reason deemed sufficient by Federal, 

after consultation with the lessee. 

MS. FELTS: Your Honor, I'm going 

to object. Mr. Mills, by his own testimony, 

said he was uninvolved with these contract 

negotiations or has no knowledge of the 

contract. He is not privy to these details. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Overruled. 

tha t --

Ms. Felt s 

THE WITNESS: I t appears t o sa y 

JUDGE GOODWIN: I t goe s t o weight . 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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MS. FELTS: Thank you. Your Honor, 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Go ahead. 

THE WITNESS The document that 

you just handed me appears to say that. I 

have no knowledge of this document, if you 

will. Let's say that it's above my -- above 

my pay grade. I don't know the specifics of 

this particular this particular 

requirement. I'm aware that there is -- that 

there is a budgeted expectation of our -- of 

our ability to deliver. But I had no 

knowledge of the 98 -- of this 98 percent rate 

of completion or on time with regard to this 

document. In fact, I know -- I can -- I can 

only assume that this is -- this is the 

contract between -- between FEDEX and Empire 

Airlines 

BY MR. MORRIS: 

Q Would you at least concede that 

there is pressure, if not tremendous pressure 

for speed in the process of -- between the 

arrival of the aircraft and the loading of the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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aircraft and the unloading of the aircraft? 

MS. FELTS: Objection. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Sustained. Asked 

and answered, 

Q 

MR. MORRIS: Nothing further, sir. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Redirect? 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

BY MS. FELTS 

Mr. Mills, I wanted to turn your 

attention to the item that you were looking at 

with Mr. Morris before the agreement, the 

general operations manual. Specifically, 

Exhibit C-11, page 44. I'm sorry, page 41, 

excuse me, C-11-41. 

A Okay. Got it. 

Q Are you there? 

A Yes, I am. 

Q I want to go over again with you 

this A-1 language. Could you read that second 

-- or I'll read it. During loading, the DG is 

separated from other freight so the crew 

member may accomplish the pre-load inspection. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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Is that what that says? 

I'm sorry. I am on 41. This is A? 

A-1. 

A 

A 

A-2 

The second sentence. 

is correct 

Q 

Oh, okay. During loading -- that 

And what does that pre-load 

inspection entail? 

A The pre-load inspection is 

essentially as -- as I characterized before, 

the expectation that the crew member is going 

to -- the crew member is going to look at the 

materials that were presented -- presented for 

carriage and the Auto-DG and compare the two, 

to insure that they match one-another, and the 

other thing that they're looking for is 

they're looking for a sticker that is put on 

the package by the -- by the DG specialist, 

that indicates that it has been inspected by 

the DG specialist and is -- and is ready for 

shipment and is properly marked and so on and 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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so forth. 

What does that pre-load inspection 

not include? 

A What does it not include? 

Q Well maybe I should rephrase that. 

A Okay. 

Q That pre-load inspection isn't 

including acceptance -- inspecting the package 

for acceptance? 

A I wouldn't necessarily call it 

acceptance. I would characterize it as 

eligibility for carriage because it's got the 

proper -- got the proper markings on it and --

and is properly -- and it properly listed on 

the -- on the Auto-DG. I'm sorry. Have I 

answered your question? 

Q Thank you. That's fine. Thank 

you 

MS. FELTS: Nothing further for 

this witness, Your Honor. 

MR. MORRIS: Nothing, sir. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Anything further 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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of this witness? 

MS. FELTS: No, Your Honor. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Sir, you may step 

down. But you are instructed that you are not 

to discuss your testimony with anybody prior 

to the conclusion of the hearing. 

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 

excused.) 

(Whereupon, the witness was 

JUDGE GOODWIN: I assume he is 

subject to recall? 

MS. FELTS: No, Your Honor In 

fact, he's our final witness 

JUDGE GOODWIN: So you rest? 

MS. FELTS: Yes, Your Honor, 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Let's go off the 

record for a minute, 

(Whereupon, off the record from 

10:20 a.m. until 10:34 a.m.) 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Back on the 

record. The Exhibit C-6-16, which was marked 

consists of 44 pages. And, just to clear up 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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the record, the page that Counsel referred to 

in cross is actually 32 of 44, page 32 of 44, 

just so we have that in the record. Any 

rebuttal, Mr. Morris? 

MR. MORRIS: No sir. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Anything else in 

this case? 

MS. FELTS: No, Your Honor 

JUDGE GOODWIN; Do you want a 

brief? 

MS. FELTS: Yes, Your Honor, Mr, 

Morris and I were discussing. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Do you want to do 

the same schedule? 

MR. MORRIS: Exactly the same 

schedule, sir. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: That will seen 

fair. I almost typed the order up last night. 

But I figured if I typed it up, you'd want a 

different schedule. All right. I'll publish 

the order as much now. Is there any 

proprietary information in this that any one 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISUND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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of you is aware of? 

MR. MORRIS: I'm not, sir. Again, 

I didn't offer it for admission. 

JUDGE GOODWIN: But it's a part of 

the administrative record that goes into it? 

MR. MORRIS: Right. 

MS. FELTS: That contract might. 

Your Honor, 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Why don't you take 

a quick look? If there's any proprietary 

information, we can redact those pages or I 

can seal this particular contract. 

MR. MORRIS: I have no objection 

to that. 

MS . FELTS: 

contract? That would -• 

Could we seal the 

JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. So why 

don't I just -- what I'm starting to do when 

I seal is that I stick a piece of paper in 

there that says this document is sealed. So 

I'll seal the contract. And we're not aware 

of any other problems with any of the other 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
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exhibits? 

MS. FELTS: No, not from here. 

Your Honor. 

JUDGE GOODWIN; Okay, Then the 

hearing being concluded, the Court will 

publish your pre-hearing briefing order in due 

course. And we'll go off the record. 

(Whereupon, the hearing was 

concluded at 10:36 a.m.) 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
ability 196:11 

able 137:13 143:16 

147:1 149:15,16 

151:10,13 152:1 

155:14 162:4 

aboard 162:19 

173:10 180:15,15 

above-entitled 

124:19 

Absolutely 161:20 

191:9 

abundantly 179:21 

accept 136:22 

141:4 152:15 

182:7,7 

acceptable 139:2 

143:4 151:21 

179:8,12 187:1 

acceptance 136:3,4 

137:4 158:10,22 

159:13 160:4,7 

199:8,9,11 

accepted 139:17 

152:4 168:14 

187:1 

access 145:17 

146:3 175:7,15 

accessed 145:7 

accessibility 188:10 

accident 143:13 

accomplish 188:18 

197:22 

accurate 163:18 

189:2 194:2 

acknowledge 

160:10 162:10 

191:11 

acknowledged 

162:8 

action 176:10 

178:14 

activities 178:1 

actual 149:18 

163:9 

add 185:14 

added 141:3 

addition 141:4 

168:2 

additional 141:3 

174:13 

address 128:12,14 

166:3,5 178:21 

adjacent 158:3 

Administration 

125:2,5 129:13 

administrative 

124:22 128:3 

202:5 

administrator 

187:1 

admission 202:3 

affirmative 184:17 

age 170:18 

agent 129:21 

136:21 138:10 

142:13 

agents 133:13 

176:3 

agent's 140:12 

148:10 

ago 140:11 167:1,2 

176:15 

agree 160:20 

agreed 192:2 

agreement 169:4 

193:6 197:11 

ahead 131:4 196:2 

air 136:4 151:17,21 

159:21,22 160:10 

161:22 172:18,19 

173:2 182:13 

183:17 184:5,8,15 

185:8,19,20 

186:11,17,21 

187:9,10,15 189:7 

191:6 193:6,10 

aircraft 133:19,19 

134:7,10,12,13,15 

134:22 135:4,6,16 

139:7,7 140:9 

142:3,18,20 143:4 

143:10,14,16 

144:1,15,19 145:3 

145:4,5,6,9,20,21 

145:22,22 146:9 

146:13 147:6,11 

147:11,14,16,16 

148:14,16 149:19 

149:21,21 150:9 

150:12,16,18 

155:11 157:1 

161:6,9,14,15,18 

161:19 162:8,19 

169:6,8 171:6 

172:17,18,21 

173:6,10 174:21 

176:5 179:1,20 

180:10,15 181:7 

182:13,14 183:2 

183:16,22 184:22 

185:5,9,15,20 

186:1,6,7,16 

188:22 189:7 

190:17,22 191:7 

196:22 197:1,1 

Aircraft's 185:3 

Airlines 124:10 

133:18,19 166:4,9 

166:11,18 167:14 

168:8,9 169:4,6,9 

169:9,19 170:10 

170:16 171:2,4 

175:14 177:11 

182:6 184:13 

196:17 

Airline's 188:12 

airplane 175:6 

airplanes 192:8 

airport 155:15 

156:4 

Air's 185:5 191:7 

allowed 142:1 

allows 137:10 

138:16 140:21 

alluded 159:17 

162:5 

aluminum 192:11 

America 168:13 

amount 138:14 

and/or 135:4 

137:19 

annual 137:8 

answer 169:12 

answered 197:4 

199:16 

anticipate 164:9 

anybody 200:5 

apparent 160:12 

180:12 

apparently 175:16 

APPEARANCES 

125:1 

appears 133:2 

195:19 196:4 

Appendix 187:22 

application 132:1 

141:11 142:11 

appreciate 159:10 

appropriate 141:14 

143:6 180:3 

appropriately 

179:9 

approximately 

147:9 149:20 

166:16 

area 135:2,9 162:3 

168:5 

areas 134:5 135:11 

155:10 

arrangement 

168:20 

arrival 196:22 

arrival/departure 

193:21 195:9 

arrived 162:12 

163:11 

arriving 145:21 

asked 130:8 148:5 

197:3 

aspect 171:11 

177:17 

assign 142:14 

143:8 

assigned 139:5 

157:7 

associated 141:15 

145:10 193:9 

Pag e 2 04 

association 154:1 

assume 196:15 

200:10 

assumed 127:15 

165:19 

assuming 170:13 

184:5 187:8 

Assurance 166:11 

Atlas 166:5 

ATR 147:11 

attention 129:19,22 

131:9 197:10 

Attorney 125:10 

August 130:14 

190:4 

authority 162:15 

190:18 192:15 

authorized 142:2 

Auto 141:5 146:20 

146:21 174:10 

180:8 

automated 140:16 

154:12 

automation 132:1 

Auto-DG 140:11 

140:15 142:22 

144:6,14 145:6 

147:2,22 148:6,12 

149:9 173:19,20 

174:15,19 175:2,5 

175:8 179:11,14 

180:6 198:15 

199:15 

Auto-DT 139:3 

Auto-regulations 

141:2 

available 167:20 

Avenue 124:17 

125:5 

aviation 125:2,5 

161:11 162:9 

183:21 

awarded 150:8 

aware 161:11 

172:16 175:14 

176:11 181:3 

187:8 193:8,13,18 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
Page 2 05 

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193:22 196:9 

202:1,21 

awareness 136:18 

137:9,10 151:4,6 

151:7 152:21 

A-1 188:14 197:19 

198:3 

A-2 188:4 198:4 

a.m 165:5,5 200:19 

200:19 203:9 

B 

B 125:12 

back 133:11,12,12 

134:16 135:17 

138:5 140:11 

148:4,10 149:18 

152:4 179:17,18 

180:7 190:15 

195:3 200:20 

Bad 192:8 

baggage 140:4 

balance 142:21 

173:1 182:16 

191:4 

Bankruptcy 124:15 

bar 158:3 

based 132:22 

140:22 141:13 

145:7 154:18 

158:11 178:10 

basically 131:14 

134:2,12 138:15 

140:1 141:5,11 

144:7 145:1,13,16 

150:7,8 158:10 

167:18 184:19 

Behalf 125:2,9 

believe 155:20 

176:15 177:1,1 

183:19 191:14 

believed 179:3 

belt 140:2 181:6,8 

Bend 156:10 

beneficial 144:3 

beyond 143:20 

BIERLEIN 125:16 

binder 128:7 

129:20 

bins 155:10 

bit 184:5 

blind 160:11,18 

board 143:14,17,22 

145:21 165:1 

174:21 

bottom 129:22 

bound 157:15 

hoY 155-14 1 56-7 

181:3,13,15,17 

182:12 192:5 

boxes 180:14,17,19 

181:5,19 182:7 

break 157:13 165:5 

brief 194:6 201:10 

briefing 203:6 

briefly 148:4 

broken 155:5 156:7 

brought 149:14 

160:8 

brown 158:15 

brutally 154:15 

158:21 

budgeted 196:10 

Building 125:12 

128:15 

built 142:6,6 

bulk 134:10,15 

135:16 142:18 

147:11 

business 166:2 

C 

€124:22 154:20 

call 127:7,9 134:7 

154:14 164:21 

191:5 199:10 

called 127:13 

165:17 

cancellations 

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candid 169:2 

candidly 176:22 

177:15 

candor 171:15 

captain 163:13 

173:10 179:4 

180:16 181:13 

182:10 183:2 

captain's 182:10,12 

care 136:5,6 154:16 

cargo 139:22 

162:14,20 163:8 

168:10 183:18 

carriage 198:15 

199-12 

carried 148:12,15 

173:10 174:21 

carrier 161:22 

184:6,8,15 185:19 

186:12,17,21 

187:10,15 

carriers 160:17 

carry 168:11 

187:10 

cart 140:4 

case 124:11 134:14 

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159:4 162:12 

163:5,6 180:16 

191:10 192:6 

201:7 

cases 154:8 

catch 159:20,22 

caused 195:10 

certain 143:3 194:1 

certainly 180:20 

certificate 162:1 

16910 1849 

185:12 186:12,17 

186:21 187:15 

certificates 184:16 

certification 184:6 

certified 137:18 

138:6 151:11 

certify 137:12 

Cesna 147:10 

157:5,14 

challenge 153:3 

154:3 159:11,16 

160:21 

change 143:7 

146:15,16,16 

148:6,7 149:9,16 

162:14 163:6,12 

163:14 165:6 

174:7 179:9,10,14 

179:15,18,22,22 

180:5,8,12 190:16 

191:11,17,18 

192:3,16 

changed 131:15 

132:12 

changes 139:9,12 

143:5 

channel 159:14,15 

characterization 

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characterize 

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characterized 

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check 141:22 

checked 188:11 

checking 142:7,11 

143:2 

checklist 138:19 

139:14 

checks 135:20 

Chief 166:12 

class 141:19 143:21 

192:7 

classes 144:5 

classroom 171:22 

clear 179:22 

191:20,20 200:22 

closely 140:19 

coast 136:5 152:4 

158:2 

code 154:14 155:16 

codes 137:9 

collected 138:4 

combination 

142:10 

come 140:11 148:4 

comes 145:4 

coming 135:1 

164:22 

command 145:13 

comment 162:4 

commerce 185:20 

commodity 158:13 

common 153:12 

161:12 

commonly 153:19 

communicated 

191:16 192:19 

communication 

192:21 

companies 161:12 

company 129:5 

168:1,17 187:13 

compare 198:15 

compatibility 

188:9 

Complainant's 

129:21 194:16,19 

complete 132:2 

completed 139:14 

141:9 

completion 193:19 

195:8 196:13 

compliance 166:20 

167:9,11 168:2 

170:9 177:11 

computer 141:10 

175:15 179:18,19 

computerized 

175:11,11 

concede 196:19 

concept 184:6 

concluded 203:5,9 

conclusion 200"6 

conduct 176'5 

confirm 141:16,20 

connection 178:15 

connectivity 

145:19 

Conservation 

129:16 

consider 160:3 

considering 176:14 

178:18 

consists 200:22 

consult 177:12 

consultation 

Neal R. Gross & Co. 

202-234-4433 

Inc 
195:12 

consulted 177:20 

178:3 180:2 

181:22 

contacted 178:4 

contain 181:20 

container 134:11 

140:5 142:17 

143:9 

containerized 

157:1 

containers 134:13 

135:4,16 156:16 

contents 144:6 

context 146:14 

continued 192:21 

contract 126:21 

170:17 184:19 

187:14 193:18 

195:4,15,17 

196:16 202:7,12 

202:16,21 

contractors 161:7 

contracts 150:8 

control 148:16 

186:7,11,16 

conversation 

191:22 

conveyance 131:14 

131:16 139:5,9 

140:3 142:15 

143:6,8 158:9 

cookies 181:20 

coordination 

185:16 

copy 180:9 194:8 

Corporate 128:15 

128:19 129:2,9 

correct 148:17 

149:10 151:8,19 

155:6,12 156:21 

156:22 157:7,16 

157:21 161:5 

162:1,17,21 

163:19 175:4 

183:11 185:1,7,12 

185:17,22 186:5 

1^ L 

186:18,19 189:19 

191:1,8 192:13,14 

192:18 193:1,7,16 

198:7 

correction 175:8 

corrections 139:16 

corrective 178:14 

correctly 151:15 

159:8 193:4 

corresponds 167:6 

corrosive 192:7 

Corrosives 192:11 

Counsel 125:4 

127:13 128:1 

165:14,17201:1 

couple 183:9 

courier 136:19,21 

136:22 137:6 

138:1,9 

couriers 158:6 

course 129:8 153:5 

193:2 203:7 

courses 153:5 

Court 124:15 203:5 

COURTNEY 

125:10 

cover 142:9 172:2,6 

covered 142:8 

CP09NM0009 

124:10 

crafted 178:11 

crew 169:17 170:6 

170:10,14,15 

171:2 172:2,8,10 

172:19 173:11 

174:2,3 175:3,7 

177:22 178:5,7 

181:14 182:21 

183:1 188:5,6,18 

188:20 191:21 

192:4 197:21 

198:12,13 

cross 125:12 

126:13 128:14 

150:21,22 183:5,6 

201:2 

CSA 137:5 138:1,9 

cue 181:18,18 

culture 167:14 

current 129:3 

currently 129:10 

166:10 

custody 131:16 

132:12 

customer 131:22 

136:20 193:14,15 

C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S 

126:10 

C-1 129:20 130:1 

133:13 

C-1-1 130:4 140:13 

148:11 

C-11 187:18 197:13 

C-11-41 197:14 

C-15 194:11 

C-16 126:21 194:13 

C-6-16 200:21 

C-7 131:9 

C-8 189:4 

C-8-1189:4 

D 

dangerous 129:12 

129:13 132:5 

137:8,12,14,14,18 

137:21 138:2,3,6 

138:13,18 140:17 

141:4,8 142:13 

144:20 145:11,15 

151:14 153:2,8,12 

154:2 159:8 160:1 

160:8,19 172:12 

173:7,8,17 188:12 

database 140:22 

day 152:22 170:18 

days 171:18 

deal 147:19 

dealing 136:2 

187:9 

dealt 176:19 

decision 162:13 

deck 179:1 

declared 139:18 

deemed 195:11 

defense 131:3 

delays 195:10 

delete 185:14 

deliver 137:6 

196:11 

delivered 173:5 

deliverer 158:20 

delivery 135:1 

137:3 144:12 

Delta 161:13 

departing 145:22 

department 124:1 

177:12 

departure 173:14 

180:6 

depending 133:4 

143:3 

deposition 152:10 

describe 131:3 

140:14 167:7 

177:7 

described 160:14 

160:14 

designed 159:12 

desire 191:16 

destination 134:4 

135:7 144:22 

156:17 

detail 159:1 

details 195:17 

detect 137:14 

determine 138:19 

178:7 

determined 180:3 

195:6 

develop 167:17 

development 

167:13,22 

device 139:6 140:5 

142:16 143:10 

DG 138:10 139:19 

139:21 146:21,22 

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174:1,11,16 175:4 

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180:9 188:7,15,17 

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dictated 144:7 

163:13 

differ 171:5 

difference 150:15 

different 201:20 

difficult 132:13 

dimension 181:4 

direct 126:13 128:9 

129:22 148:8 

165:21 

directed 191:11 

direction 190:10 

192:16 

directly 134:14 

147:19 170:17 

171:2 

Director 166:11,20 

167:9,10 170:9 

177:21 178:2,10 

180:1 187:7 

disagreement 

174:10 

discrepancy 146:14 

148:5 

discuss 164:5 200:5 

discussed 181:22 

discussing 201:12 

discussion 173:20 

194:7 

disposed 177:18 

distances 188:10 

District 124:15 

DMS 124:12 

DOCKET 124:9 

document 131:12 

131:13 194:17 

196:3,5,14 202:20 

documented 

168:21 169:1 

doing 158:9 164:12 

door 183:18 

doubt 190:7 

download 135:6 

driver 144:10,12 

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Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
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drives 161:21 

due 203:6 

duly 127:14 165:18 

duration 171:17 

duties 129:8 167:4 

167:8 172:4 

D-85 185:3 

D.C 125:18 

E 

E 125:10 

earlier 149:9 161:5 

162:6 170:7 

175:18 

ease 189:17 

easier 195:1 

east 136:5 152:4 

158:2 

eat 192:11 

EA-DGL 188:12 

efficiency 169:14 

either 146:11 

157:12 170:17,17 

174:17 186:22 

electronic 132:14 

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electronically 

154:11 180:8 

eligibility 199:12 

emergency 144:3 

146:7 168:1 

Empire 124:10 

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136:4 148:12 

166:4,8,10,18,21 

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Empire's 131:3 

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employed 128:13 

employee 132:16 

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employees 135:3 

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employer 128:12 

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employment 

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entail 198:9 

enter 139:2 141:12 

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entered 142:12 

enters 141:10 

entries 132:7,10 

entry 131:17 

error 141:22 142:7 

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errors 138:20 

Esq 125:4,10,16,22 

essentially 168:11 

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estimate 147:10 

event 139:13 

143:12 146:6 

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everybody's 160:2 

exactly 137:20 

143:17 175:5 

178:2 180:10 

201:15 

EXAMINATION 

128:9 150:22 

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197:7 

examined 127:15 

165:19 

example 156:11 

17020 172-10 

174:12 175:1 

excerpt 187:12 

exclusive 195:9 

excuse 187:19 

197:14 

excused 164:17 

200:9 

exhibit 128:7 

129:19 130:1 

131:9 154:20 

197:13 200:21 

exhibits 126:19 

203:1 

expect 170:18 

173:5 

expectation 172:9 

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expectations 172:3 

expected 172:20 

175:4 181:14 

expecting 143:15 

145:2 

expert 149:2 

explain 148:19 

explanation 158:1 

Express 125:11 

128:13 168:11 

195:7 

extract 187:9 

eye 160:11,18 

F 

FAA 124:9,11 

125:22 140:19 

166:12 168:4 

169:10 176:11,20 

184:19 185:16 

187:15 

FAA-2009-0586 

124:12 

facilities 132:18,20 

facility 133:3,7 

facing 190:10 

fact 132-12 137-7 

144-19 157-6 X r r • 1. ^ i, (^ / • \ j 

161:17 163:6 

196:14 200:13 

facts 148:9 

fair 201:18 

familiar 140:18 

152:16 158:18 

181:2 193:5 

familiarity 175:12 

familiarization 

171:8,13,20 

far 138:1 143:20 

144:7 145:20 

fax 125:7,14,19 

146:11 

Federal 125:2,5,11 

128:13 168:11 

183:21 195:6,7,11 

FEDEX 126:22 

130:7,19,22 131:1 

131:18,22 132:20 

133:7,20 134:7,13 

134:18,21 135:2,3 

135:4,11,15,16 

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184:11 187:22 

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193:15 195:4 

196:16 

FEDEX'S 186:2 

193:2 

feeder 139:6 

144:15,18 145:5 

146:13 147:6,7,14 

148:3,16 150:16 

161:6 

felt 182:2 

Felts 125:10 127:7 

127:9 128:2,6,10 

130:11 131:6,7 

136:10 149:5,6 

163:22 164:3,9,14 

164:20 165:22 

193:11 194:8 

195:13,22 196:1 

197:2,8 199:19 

200:2,12,15 201:8 

201:11202:7,15 

203:2 

Fifteen 194:14 

figured 201:19 

final 162:21 200:13 

find 174:9,9 195:1 

fine 194:9 199:17 

finished 164:1 

Fire 129:16 

first 127:8,14,18 

130:2 131:17 

133:16 136:17 

140:16,16,21 

162:12 165:9,18 

172:14 173:12 

175:12 176:10,15 

176:15 177:2 

180:18 

fieet 149:18,19 

flight 148:13 162:6 

162:12 167:15 

168:5 170:20,20 

170-22 175-20 

\11:\1 182:22 

183:2 184:3 

flights 182:18,19 

Neal R. Gross & Co., 

202-234-4433 

Inc, 
flip 133:11 

flipping 133:12 

Floor 125:12 

flown 134:3 

fly 155:11 169:17 

184:21,22,22 

flying 134:19 

focus 167:4 176:8 

folks 176:3 

follow 187:14 

follows 127:16 

165:20 

follow-up 178:13 

form 188:12 

forth 133:12 143:2 

143:18 150:13 

153:3 158:21 

159:3 199:1 

fostering 167:13 

found 144:2 

foundation 149:4 

frankly 180:11 

182:1 

freight 135:4,15 

140:5 142:17 

143:9 156:15 

188:18 197:21 

frequency 161:1 

frequent 153:2 

frequently 177:16 

Frontier 161:13 

full 127:18 148:11 

165:8 194:14 

function 153:1 

further 150:19 

163:20 183:3 

197:5 199:19,22 

fuselage 192:17 

future 180:5 

G 128:15 187:22 

gathered 178:6 

general 158:13 

172:12 187:4,6,13 

197:12 

generally 177:18 

generate 132:3 

getting 154:19 

give 153:13 158:5 

given 145:12 154:6 

154:6 158:4 162:6 

185:9 

gives 144:22 145:1 

go 131:4 134:16 

136:18 140:1 

143:7 149:18 

151:3 156:16 

160:6 173:21 

179:17,18 180:7 

183:8 189:4 

194:22 196:2 

197:18 200:16 

203:7 

goes 136:16 143:19 

153:22 159:13,15 

171:11 175:5 

188:21 195:21 

202:5 

going 127:5 131:2 

154:6,16,17 

155:14 156:9,10 

157:14,19 164:7 

165:1 173:9 

190:15 195:1,13 

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good 147:10 173:8 

173:22 

goods 129:12,13 

132:6 137:14,15 

137:18,21 138:2,3 

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142:13 144:20 

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153:2,9 154:2 

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188:12 

GOODWIN 

124:22 127:3,17 

128:1,5 130:8 

131:4 136:8 149:3 

150:21 163:1,21 

164:1,4,11,15,18 

165:7,13 183:5 

193:12 194:12,14 

195:18,21 196:2 

197:3,6 199:22 

200:3,10,14,16,20 

201:6,9,13,17 

202:4,9,17 203:4 

grade 196:7 

grandmother's 

181:20 

green 158:17 

ground 171:1 

172:1 

group 141:19 

groups 129:15 

guess 130:5 

guidance 167:19 

H 

Hacks 125:12 

128:14 

hand 137:4 168:22 

175:12 181:6 

handed 192:3 

196:4 

handle 156:19 

181:14 182:11 

191:18 

handled 137:21 

156:13 188:16 

handler 136:20 

137:8 138:10 

158:7 

handlers 135:12 

137:3 140:2 158:6 

handling 138:3 

154:3,5 156:6 

158:8,11 

happen 160:5 

191:15 

happened 148:20 

179:3 

happens 134:20 

136:5,6 

Hayden 166:6 

hazard 137:19 

143:21 144:5 

153:22 159:2 

hazardous 152:17 

160:12 163:7,10 

168:6 171:8,13,20 

173:3,17 176:21 

178:1 187:10 

HAZMAT 138:1 

153:12 159:13,15 

159:16,19 162:14 

178:22 191:3 

192:7 

heard 153:17 

hearing 124:5,19 

129:16 164:6,12 

200:6 203:5,8 

HEARINGS 124:3 

held 166:21 171:21 

hey 191:17 

hidden 137:14 

hold 191:12 

home 145:18 

honest 154:15 

158:21 

Honor 128:4 130:5 

130:21 136:1 

149:1 163:22 

164:3,10,20 183:4 

195:13 196:1 

199:20 200:2,12 

200:15 201:8,11 

202:8 203:3 

HONORABLE 

124:22 

host 135:14 144:19 

Hotline 129:14 

hour 138:15 

hubs 168:12,13 

Hygiene 129:16 

H-A-Y-D-E-N 

166:6 

I 

Idaho 166:6 

idea 180:17 

identifled 149:2 

156:15,16 159:13 

Pag e 2 08 

159:14,18 160:6 

identify 132:4 

142:17,19 143:1 

151:13 155:14 

183:22 

identifying 185:19 

illustration 139:10 

imagine 133:3 

immediate 178:4 

immediately 

153:16 177:21 

improper 136:4 

improperly 159:17 

159:18 

inbound 134:22,22 

143:15 144:20 

145:3 159:4 

incident 143:12 

181:16 190:16 

incidents 178:20 

include 151:10 

199:3,4 

includes 129:12 

including 145:17 

199:8 

inconsistent 160:13 

incorrect 148:14 

149:12,14 174:6 

indicate 132:11 

indicated 158:12 

163:8 

indicates 198:20 

indication 151:17 

156:4,18 160:12 

indications 151:13 

160:18 

indicative 161:18 

indicators 152:16 

individual 152:20 

172:22 

indulgence 195:2 

industrial 129:15 

167:16 

industry 161:12 

162:9 

information 133:1 

137:13 139:2,4,11 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , 

202-234-443 3 

Inc . 
139:12 142:3,4 

145:1,9,11 146:9 

146:10,11 147:2,4 

147:22 149:12,14 

153:4 178:6 

201:22 202:11 

initial 138:15 

initiate 180:7 

initiated 176:11 

initiation 166:22 

ink 179:9,16 

input 140:2 149:16 

163:15 

inspect 138:18 

inspected 198:20 

inspecting 188:21 

199:8 

inspection 133:17 

135:20 138:19 

141:9 158:10 

188:19 197:22 

198:9,10 199:2,7 

Inspector 166:12 

instance 137:21 

141:18 146:7 

instances 134:11 

instructed 164:5 

174:8,15 200:4 

instructions 158:20 

insure 172:17 

174:17 198:16 

insuring 173:12,15 

182:13 

interaction 168:4 

interacts 142:22 

interest 185:19 

International 

170:21 

interviews 178:6 

invest 160:22 

investigation 

176:12,17,20 

177:4,9,14,17 

178:12,17 180:22 

181:11 182:18 

involved 176:18 

177:13 178:5 

issue 146:14 148:21 

159:18 173:2 

178:3,16 191:5 

issues 167:7 

item 129:20 197:10 

items 134:18 141:3 

173:9 

Jacksonville 132:9 

jeopardy 180:4 

job 128:17 154:2 

166:8,10,20 167:4 

167:8 

Judge 124:22 127:3 

127:17 128:1,5 

130:8 131:4 136:8 

149:3 150:21 

163:1,21 164:1,4 

164:11,15,18 

165:7,13 183:5 

193:12 194:12,14 

195:18,21 196:2 

197:3,6 199:22 

200:3,10,14,16,20 

201:6,9,13,17 

202:4,9,17 203:4 

justify 134:6 

" K 

kept 175:17 

kind 167:6 176:7 

178:20 

knew 178:8 

know 140:18 145:2 

152:11,13,20 

154:6 156:9,20,21 

157:8,11,17,19 

158:13 169:5 

182:17 189:20 

196:7,14 

knowledge 146:4 

194:4 195:16 

196:5,12 

knowledgeable 

162:3 

known 138:5 147:7 

Kyle 125:22 

label 137:12 153:22 

158:18 

labeled 137:17 

138:6 139:19,21 

151:11 

labeling 138:22 

labels 137:19 151:8 

159:2 190:10 

language 197:19 

laptop 145:18 

larger 150:12 

launches 144:18 

Law 124:22 

LAWRENCE 

125:16 

lay 149:4 

leads 130:14 

learn 153:6 

lease 147:13 161:14 

leased 150:14 

lessee 195:4,12 

letter 176:16 177:4 

177:8,13 178:11 

178:16 180:21,22 

181:11 182:18 

letters 177:16 

let's 149:18 167:4 

170:5 171:10 

174:12 176:7 

177:3 184:4 196:6 

200:16 

lies 182:12 

limitations 182:16 

limited 138:2 

Lind 125:5 

line 130:18 163:15 

Lionhaul 134:1,2 

list 173:9 

listed 148:14 

199:14 

listing 132:8 

144:20 

literally 158:3 

little 176:10 184:4 

livery 150:4 

load 135:5,13 139:6 

140:2,5 142:16 

143:1,10 145:14 

148:16 162:14 

175:22 176:4 

179:5 

loaded 134:10,12 

134:15 135:11,16 

140:8 142:16,18 

142:19 143:22 

147:12 157:1 

179:20 180:10,15 

181:7 182:15,15 

189:16 

loader 181:6,9 

loading 142:15 

143:4 172:11,12 

172:13,13,20 

173:1 175:19,21 

176:5 181:3 188:2 

188:7,13,15,17 

189:18,22 190:1 

191:5 196:22 

197:20 198:6 

lobby 127:6 

located 166:6 

location 133:18 

140:7 142:21 

143:7,22 144:5 

148:15,17 155:11 

162:14,15 163:7 

163:10 190:17 

191:3,12 192:16 

locations 134:8 

143:1,4 

Lomazow 125:22 

long 128:21 129:4 

166:13 176:14 

longer 181:4 

longitudinally 

181:8 

look 138:17,17 

156:8 157:18 

158:14 190:2 

198:13 202:10 

looked 139:10 

140:13 159:1 

looking 132:21 

Pag e 2 09 

L 

148:9 152:19 

159:6 197:10 

198:17,18 

lot 154:10 159:1 

161:1 170:18 

M 

main 163:8 179:1 

191:12 

mainframe 141:11 

175:16 

maintain 150:9 

195:5 

maintained 150:6,7 

maintenance 

167:22 184:21 

majority 149:22 

150:10,11 

making 159:7 

management 129:1 

167:20 

manager 128:19 

129:9,15 

managers 129:14 

manifest 139:3 

143:16 144:13 

148:12,14 159:4,9 

manifesting 140:17 

manifests 144:10 

manual 179:11 

187:4,7,13 197:12 

manuals 186:22 

manufacturers 

171:5 

mark 137:11 

marked 126:19 

130:1 137:17 

138:6 139:19,20 

151:11 159:17 

194:10,16,18 

198:22 200:21 

marking 138:21 

151:16,20,21 

152:11 153:19,21 

158:16,19 181:12 

markings 137:19 

151:8 159:2 

Neal R. Gross & Co., 

202-234-4433 

Inc, 
Page 210 

199:13 

match 152:14 

173:18 198:16 

matched 159:8 

material 160:13 

163:10 168:6 

171:21 174:11 

175:17 192:8 

materials 141:6 

143:3 152:17 

163:7 171:9,13 

173:4,18 176:21 

178:1,22 187:10 

198:14 

matter 124:9,19 

128:3 164:6 167:7 

176:9 

matters 176:13 

178:15 

ma'am 176:1 

mean 131:19 

meaning 134:22 

195:6 

means 185:8 

mechanics 167:16 

169:3 193:5 

Medford 132:8,19 

133:6,16,18 136:7 

155:15 156:4,9 

157:15,20 162:13 

163:11 190:6 

member 173:11 

174:3,3 175:3,7 

181-14 183-1 

188:5,6,18,20 

191:21 192:4 

197:22 198:12,13 

members 169:17 

170:6,11,14,15 

171:2 172:3,8,10 

177:22 178:5,7 

182:21 

Memphis 125:13 

128:15 132:8 

157:3 

mentioned 134:17 

135:18 140:10 

148:4 149:8,20 

170:7 171:14 

174:2 175:18,20 

mentions 131:17 

133:15,16 

Mills 126:17 

164:21 165:11,16 

166:1 177:3 183:8 

195:14 197:9 

minute 140:10 

165:2 200:17 

miscellaneous 

129:17 

MMRA 156:3,8 

moment 133:11 

135:17 149:8 

195:2 

monitor 172:20 

month 195:5 

Morris 125:4 130:5 

130:10 136:1 

148:22 151:1 

163:4 164:22 

183:7 193:17 

194:10,13,21 

196:18 197:5,11 

199:21 201:4,5,12 

201:15 202:2,6,13 

move 157:12 

moved 179:15 

192:4,5 

multiple 152:21 

M-I-L-L-S 165:12 

N 

N 126:16 

name 127:18,20 

141:1 143:18 

165:8,10 166:2 

names 127:19 

141:15 165:9 

narrow 176:8 

near 158:17 

necessarily 169:5 

199:10 

necessary 139:16 

need 145:2 149:8 

173:20 

needed 148:6 

needing 156:16 

174:6 

needs 146:15 

negotiations 

195:16 

Neil 127:21 

network 132:20 

new 143:8,9,10 

night 201:18 

nod 168:22 

non-employee 

146:12 149:16 

non-FEDEX 146:2 

146:6 

non-specialists 

153:10 

NORD 152:11 

normal 158:13 

North 166:5 

noted 174:18 

notice 124:19 

149:14 174:5 

176:15 

notification 144:9 

November 194:15 

NTSB 140:20 

number 132:17 

133:21 141:1,12 

141:14,15 143:18 

144:21 145:8,10 

158:17 161:7 

167-11 1896 

numbers 130-19 

N.W 125:17 

O 

object 195:14 

objection 136:2 

148:22 193:11 

197:2 202:13 

October 124:14 

166:22 

offer 202:3 

offered 137:15 

151:15,17,18 

Office 124:3,16 

125:4 

offload 135:3 

off-loading 156:7 

190:5 

Oh 169:15 194:3 

198:6 

okay 129:18 130:10 

130:17 131:4,6 

132:7 133:10,14 

134:16 136:14 

144:14 146:5 

147:5,18 148:3 

149:5 150:2 

151:16 152:2,6 

154:4 155:8,19 

156:1,3,9,18 

157:11,17,22 

159:10 161:3,8,8 

162:5,11 163:5,14 

163:20 164:4,11 

165:13 170:5,15 

173:22 174:22 

175:18 176:7 

177:3 183:3 

184:15 185:8,13 

186:1,20 187:3,18 

188:8,14 189:3,5 

189:10 190:3,9,15 

191:10,15 192:6,8 

192:10,12,15 

194:3 197:15 

198:6 199:6 

202-17 203-4 

once 141-16 142-11 Vl.ft V' ^ X ^T 1. • l.\J 1 ^T ^ * X X 

143:11 145:3 

153-14 160-6 

ones 177:14,15 

one-another 

198:16 

online 163:18 

operate 150:9 

185:9 

operated 150:5 

183:17 

operates 169:7 

183:17 

operating 169:10 

185:20 189:8 

operation 184:16 

186:2 190:22 

191:7 

operational 186:7 

186:11,16 

operations 133:4 

144:16 169:11 

170:19 176:6 

177:21 178:3,10 

180:2 181:2 

184:18,21 185:4,5 

185:10,10 187:4,7 

187:13 189:22 

190:5 197:12 

operator 160:11 

161:19,22 183:22 

operators 133:22 

134:10 147:7,15 

148:1 150:7 

159:21 161:5,6 

Oppenheimer 

126:16 127:10,12 

127:21 128:11 

130:12 131:8 

151:2 

opposed 156:10 

op-specs 185:15 

order 127:4 139:4 

194:11201:18,21 

203:6 

Oregon 124:15,17 

132:9 133:2,6,17 

133-18 156-10 

162:13 190:6 

nrientatinn 18R-11 

origin 134:3 

ORMD 151:16,20 

153:7,19,21 158:4 

180:14 

ORMDs 152:1 

159:5 

ORND 181:11 

outbound 140:8 

outlined 147:20 

outside 164:8 

Neal R. Gross & Co., 

202-234-4433 

Inc, 
r- out-sourced 170:19 

overnight 156:1 

Overruled 136:9 

193:12 195:18 

oversee 129:14 

over-the-road 

144:10 

owned 149:21 

150:1,3,10,11,18 

169:7 

owns 161:9,17 

O-F 126:10 

0-P-P-E-N-H-E-... 

127:22 

package 131:15,19 

132:4,5,11 133:8 

134:6 135:19,19 

135:21 136:15 

137:16 138:17,21 

139:4,8,13,15 

141:8,21 143:5,8 

144:13 147:21 

154:17,18,20 

157:12 158:8,11 

158:14,14 159:6 

174:13,18 175:2 

179:15 188:11 

198:19 199:8 

packages 133:20 

134:2 135:1,3,10 

135:13 137:1,7,13 

138:4,7 139:18 

140:3,8 145:3,14 

151:12,14 153:2 

154:5 156:12,14 

158:15,19 159:7 

160:5 168:12,14 

172:4,22 173:16 

175:22 189:11,19 

packaging 131:17 

138:22 

packed 157:4 

packing 141:19 

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paid 183:14 

pallet 157:13 

paper 144:13 

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part 150:17 151:6 

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particular 139:5 

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passenger/cargo 

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Patrick 126:16 

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pay 196:7 

pays 170:1,3 

pen 179:9,10,10,16 

penalty 176:10 

pencil 179:10 

people 147:12 

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percent 193:19,20 

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perform 172:16 

person 152:3 154:4 

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personally 189:22 

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personnel 143:7 

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persons 162:20 

photograph 155:1 

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photographs 189:4 

physical 132:15 

physically 157:12 

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pick 137:6 

picked 131:19 

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pick-up 137:2 

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pictorial 153:22 

picture 194:15 

pictures 181:9 

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pilot 144:9 145:12 

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pilots 170:12 

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pilot's 175:19 

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place 159:20 182:3 

placed 179:5 

plane 134:18 

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please 127:17 

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pod 179:2,6 191:13 

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point 135:2 137:16 

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portion 168:2 

portions 168:13 

Portland 124:16,17 

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position 128:22 

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possible 131:20 

142:7 

possibly 148:20 

post 144:17 

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152:17 

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pre 175:19 

predominantly 

134:5 

preempted 169:12 

present 125:20 

180:9 

presented 173:17 

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pressure 196:20,20 

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prevent 180:14 

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Prevention 129:16 

previous 166:17 

previously 166:19 

pre-flight 172:17 

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pre-inspection 

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pre-loading 188:19 

prides 154:7 

primarily 147:17 

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primary 161:7 

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printed 180:9 

prior 180:6 200:5 

Priority 156:1 

privy 169:5 195:17 

probably 153:8 

problem 146:8 

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procedures 171:4 

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process 134:20 

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processed 131:22 

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processing 154:8,8 

product 155:21 

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program 163:9 

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proper 141:1,14 

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properly 137:11,11 

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151:11,18 198:22 

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proprietary 201:22 

202:10 

Nea l R. Gross & Co . 

202-234-443 3 

Inc , 
provide 143:21 

144:8 146:11 

168:8,16 171:7 

193:16 

provided 169:8 

170:10 181:10 

provides 168:9,20 

170:16,21 171:2 

193:19 

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publish 201:20 

203:6 

pull 143:16 145:20 

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167:15 181:15 

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purview 170:8 

putl54:13 155:10 

157:14 180:4 

181:6,8 182:3 

198:18 

P-A-T-R-I-C-K 

127:22 

P-R-0-C-E-E-D-... 

127:1 

p.m 124:19 127:2 

Quality 166:11 

quantity 141:20 

142:1 

query 143:13 

question 130:6,9 

136:12 142:2 

149:7 169:16 

171:12 186:14 

190:12 199:16 

questions 169:13 

quick 128:2 202:10 

quickly 177:19 

quite 169:1 182:1 

193:5 

R 

R 125:4 

raised 167:7 

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ramp 133:6,9 

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195:7,9 196:12 

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153:14 154:15 

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reasonably 180:13 

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153:3 164:7,13 

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recalling 164:10 

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153:4 176:16 

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recognition 138:3 

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153:7,9,11,16 

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record 165:4,8 

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REDIR 126:13 

Redirect 163:21 

197:6,7 

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150:16 

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reflect 175:5 

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reformulate 149:7 

regard 147:21 

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region 135:2 

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131:2 

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145:4 

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155:19 190:3 

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192:1 

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153:6 161:2 

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183:20 186:21 

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requirement 196:9 

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193:9 

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127:14 165:18 

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177:6 178:11,15 

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responsibilities 

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responsibility 

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responsible 129:11 

143:6 162:7 

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rest 200:14 

restate 186:13 

result 180:1 

return 168:13 

returned 139:15 

review 152:2 

Pag e 212 

reviewed 152:7 

Richard 124:22 

126:17 164:21 

165:11,16 

right 156:5 164:15 

184:1 187:20 

189:7 190:14 

192:9 193:3 

201:20 202:6 

RMD 141:5 

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room 164:12 

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195:8 

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155:16 158:11 

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R-I-C-H-A-R-D 

165:11 

safe 160:1 164:7 

190:22 

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129:1,2,9,11,17 

166:20 167:9,10 

167:14,15,16,17 

167:20 170:8,21 

187:8 

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saw 192:6 

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159:19 191:17 

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148:13 162:1 

184:13 188:14 

198:1202:20 

scan 132:16 157:13 

157:18,19 158:3 

scanned 132:16 

155:6 

scanning 131:14 

Nea l R. Gross & Co. , Inc . 

202-234-443 3 
r- 155:9 156:8 

scans 154:18,20 

schedule 201:14,16 

201:20 

scheduled 134:3 

195:5 

school 172:1 

SCOTT 125:4 

se 134:21 

seal 202:12,15,19 

202:21 

sealed 202:20 

seat 191:13 

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165:7 

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197:19 198:5 

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148:13,17 153:1 

153:15 155:1 

173:5 177:15,15 

187:21 189:10,10 

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138:7 

select 141:14 

selection 141:16 

Senior 125:10 

128:19 129:9 

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197:21 

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178:21 

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sequestration 

127:4 

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155:22 168:10,16 

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142:1,5,12,14 

152:4 154:6,12 

155:4 157:14 

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shipments 130:22 

131:1 152:15 

154:9 

shipper 132:1 

139:15 142:3 

154:11 

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141:1,15 143:18 

144:12 152:14 

160:15 

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175:2 

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simulator 170:22 

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situation 135:9 

171:22 176:19,20 

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178:9 

six 129:3 147:17 

161:4 

Sixteen 194:12 

solely 186:4 

somebody 163:16 

sorry 133:11 

150:10 169:15 

170:2 186:13 

197:13 198:2 

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sort 133:3 140:2 

174:5 191:16 

space 189:17 

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specialist 141:8 

142:14 153:9 

160:9 173:7,8 

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179:5,6,13 180:7 

192:1,2 198:19,21 

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specific 142:4 

143:1 171:3 173:3 

194:1 

specifically 168:3 

169:10 170:12,22 

172:11,21 173:6 

173:15 176:4 

177:5 178:18 

191:22 197:12 

specifications 

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185:4,6 186:2 

189:9 

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165:19 

standard 162:8,10 

175:13 

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177:17 184:4 

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starting 202:18 

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state 127:18 128:12 

128:17 165:7 

166:1 

statement 129:21 

133:13 140:13 

148:10 

STATES 124:1 

station 133:4,5 

138:5 139:22 

192:22 193:1,2 

stations 168:15 

Steiger 176:17 

step 165:1 200:3 

stick 202:19 

sticker 183:17 

198:18 

stickers 132:3 

Street 125:17 

strictly 134:1 

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subject 164:7,13 

176:9,9 200:11 

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sufficient 195:11 

Suite 125:17 

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supervisor 178:4 

supplemental 

133:22 134:9 

135:6 144:18 

145:5 147:5,6,14 

149:19 

sure 128:5,6 153:17 

159:7 161:16 

169:1,15 172:16 

173:19 179:21 

182:14 

surprised 153:14 

Pag e 213 

sustain 149:3 

Sustained 197:3 

SW 124:17 

sworn 127:14 

165:18 

system 131:2 132:2 

137:2 139:3 

140:14,15,17,21 

141:5,12,17,21 

142:6,12,21,22 

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144:15 145:7,15 

145:19 146:3,21 

146:22 148:7 

150:17 154:13,13 

154:17 159:11,20 

161:4 163:16,19 

175:8,11 191:17 

systems 167:21 

S.W 125:5 

Tab 129:20 

table 141:1 

take 202:9 

taken 157:4 190:4 

talk 134:19 170:5 

171:10 176:8 

177:3,5 184:4 

talked 152:8 153:8 

161:3,8 184:3 

193:4 

talking 182:17 

talks 187:22 

tape 165:5 

teU 132:13,21 133:7 

160:16,17 171:12 

171:16,16 

tells 131:21 141:17 

141:18 145:16 

185:4 

tend 192:11 

Tennessee 125:13 

128:16 

term 153:7,12 

195:6 

terminal 141:10 

Neal R. Gross & Co., 

202-234-4433 

Inc 
145:17 

terminal/station 

133:8 

testified 127:16 

165:20 

testify 127:6 

testimony 152:10 

153:18 164:6 

195:14 200:5 

thank 128:8 131:6 

140:10 150:19 

165:13 169:13 

183:3 196:1 

199:17,17 

theirs 134:14 

thing 160:20 164:8 

180:3 186:20 

198:17 

things 174:17 

183:9 184:20 

192:8 

think 162:2 165:1 

181:9 191:19 

Thirty 129:6 

three 141:19 

time 131:15 139:8 

143:5 152:5,22 

157:18 160:4,4 

166:21 167:6 

176:14 179:12 

193:9,16,20 195:9 

196:13 

title 128:18 138:11 

166:8,10 167:5 

told 159:5 179:2 

top 187:21 

tracking 130:19 

132:3,12,16 

139:11 145:8,10 

158:17,19 

traffic 132:3 

train 160:22 

161:21 

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138:12 146:20 

173:11,15 174:3 

176:4 183:12 

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137:9,10 138:2,14 

138:16 142:10 

147:3 151:4,7,9 

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152:21 153:5,13 

158:5 170:6,9,16 

170:19,21,22 

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171:13,17,18,19 

172:2,7 173:3 

transcript 152:3 

transfer 147:21 

transload 134:13 

134:18 

transmitted 131:18 

transport 159:22 

transportation 

124:1 151:7,22 

153:20 160:1 

transported 138:5 

140:6 

tremendous 196:20 

trunk 134:7 139:7 

try 142:6,9 182:3 

turn 129:18 131:9 

134:2 154:20 

160:11,18 187:18 

189:3 197:9 

twelve 195:3 

two 129:14 130:19 

141:19 159:12 

169:12 174:16 

178:19,19 182:17 

182:19 198:15 

type 131:22 135:6,8 

135:9,20 140:3 

141:6 143:3 

144:11 153:13 

154:12 155:21 

158:9,14 168:7 

170:9 178:13 

typed 201:18,19 

typical 181:1 

189:21 

typically 171:17 

177:9,14 181:5,7 

T-A-B-L-E 126:10 

U 

ULD 156:15,19 

157:3,4,13 

ULDs 135:15 

156:14 

ultimately 162:7 

182:15 190:20,21 

UN 141:1,12,13,15 

143:17 144:21 

uncomfortable 

191:3 

undergo 138:13 

understand 136:8 

153:18 184:5 

193:4 

understanding 

163:17 191:21 

Understood 164:14 

193:3 

uniform 183:10 

uniforms 169:21 

uninvolved 195:15 

unique 142:5 151:7 

unit 139:6 140:5 

142:16 143:9 

United 124:1 

161:13 

unloaded 135:14 

189:17 

unloading 188:15 

189:18 197:1 

UN-1203 141:18 

update 132:15 

145:7 146:21 

147:3 

updated 145:16 

163:19 

updates 131:14 

132:12 

URSA 154:14 

155:16 

use 132:2 134:4 

144:9 146:20 

147:16 161:12 

usually 134:3 135:8 

utilize 133:22 

147:8 

utilized 144:15 

150:16 

U.S 124:15 

variety 170:16 

various 155:10 

186:22 

vehicle 143:11 

version 163:18 

view 147:1 

violations 136:3 

visual 181:18 

volume 134:6 

W 

W 125:16 

Waddy 152:3 

Waddy's 152:9 

wait 127:6 164:8 

want 127:7 133:10 

134:16 135:17 

136:11 140:11 

146:9 148:8 

153:17 177:5 

197:18 201:9,13 

201:19 

wanted 128:6 148:3 

197:9 

wants 185:14 

Washington 125:6 

125:18 

watched 181:2 

ways 159:12 

wear 169:21 

wearing 183:9 

weather 195:10 

Wednesday 124:13 

weight 142:21 

173:1 182:16 

191:4 195:21 

wet 147:13 150:14 

we'll 203:7 

we're 130:4 148:10 

182:17 202:21 

we've 141:2 144:2 

Pag e 214 

146:8 150:8 

witness 127:8,13,15 

127:20 128:8 

150:20 163:3 

164:2,16,19 

165:10,17,19 

183:4 193:13 

195:19 196:3 

199:20 200:1,7,8 

200:13 

witnessed 190:1,1 

witnesses 126:13 

127:5 

words 153:1 

work 140:19 

working 130:6 

182:21 

worth 171:18 

worthiness 172:19 

173:2 182:13 

worthy 172:18 

wouldn't 199:10 

XH 155:19 158:12 

XHMMRA 155:17 

year 153:13 166:16 

167:1,2 

years 129:2,3,6,7 

152:21 

Zip 166:7 

1)124:8,12 

1 

1st 166:22 

1-1 130:1 

1:30 127:2 

10:20200:19 

10:34 200:19 

10:36203:9 

1001124:17 

1007 125:7 

Nea l R. Gross & Co . 

202-234-443 3 

I n c 
11194:11 

11-41187:19 

11-44 187:19 

1101125:17 

11559166:5 

119-9B 183:21 

128126:16 

15129:2 

151126:16 

16194:16,19 

1601 125:5 

166126:17 

184 126:17 

195 126:22 

198126:17 

20007125:18 

2001 167:1 

2007130:15 190:5 

194:15 

2007NM700155 

124:12 

2010124:14 

202125:18 

208156:19 157:5,6 

157:8,15 

22130:14 190:4 

227-1417 125:6 

27124:14 

3rd 125:12 

30th 125:17 

32 201:2,2 

350 147:9 149:20 

36 129:6,6 

3620125:12 

3670128:14 

38125128:16 

38125-8800125:13 

40138:15 

41197:13 198:2 

425 125:6 

434-8632 125:13 

4363 125:19 

44197:13 200:22 

201:2,2 

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L 

7-1 131:11 

727s 147:12 150:13 

757150:13 

757s147:12 

8 

8194:15 

8-2 154:21 

8283 125:14 

83858 166:7 

8678-22 148:13 

9:03 124:19 

9:42 165:4 

9:44 165:5 

901 125:13 

940FRX 189:6 

97204124:17 

98193:19,20 195:7 

195:8 196:12,12 

98057 125:6 

Neal R. Gross & Co. , 

202-234-4433 

Inc 
r^ 216 

CERTIFICAT E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Empire Airlines, Inc. 

Before: uS Department of Transportation 

Date: 10-27-10 

Place: Portland, Oregon 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

Court Reporter 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N,W, 

WASHINGTON, DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com