TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

HERITAGE REPORTING CORPORATION

Official Reporters

1220 L Street, N.W., Suite 600

Washington, D.C. 20005-4018

(202) 628-4888

contracts@hrccourtreporters.com

IN THE MATTER OF: )

 ) FDMS No. FAA-2011-0069

DEAN INTERNATIONAL, INC. )

Pages: 1 through 30

Place: Washington, D.C.

Date: October 26, 2011 
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 FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION

IN THE MATTER OF: )

 ) FDMS No. FAA-2011-0069

DEAN INTERNATIONAL, INC. )

Suite 600

1220 L Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C.

Wednesday,

October 26, 2011

The parties met, pursuant to the notice, at 

1:31 p.m.

BEFORE: HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN

 Administrative Law Judge

APPEARANCES: (Via Telephone)

On behalf of Complainant:

CHRISTOPHER R. STEVENSON, Esquire

Office of Regional Counsel, ASO-7

Southern Region

Federal Aviation Administration

P.O. Box 20636

Atlanta, Georgia 30320

(404) 305-5200

On Behalf of Respondent:

STUART A. GOLDSTEIN, Esquire

Goldstein & Sordo

9350 South Dixie Highway, 10th Floor

Miami, Florida 33156

(305) 670-1222
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 (1:31 p.m.)

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're on the record in the 

4 matter of Dean International, Inc. This is FAA Docket 

5 No. FAA-2011-0069. Today is Wednesday, October 26, 

6 2011, and the parties have reconvened for a 

7 continuation of the motion conference that began 

8 earlier this week on Monday, October 24, 2011.

9 The Federal Aviation Administration is 

10 represented by its attorney, Christopher R. Stevenson. 

11 Dean International, Inc. is represented by its 

12 attorney, Stuart A. Goldstein. Also present in the 

13 Office of Hearings with this Administrative Court is 

14 Attorney Priya Krisha, who is sitting as an observer 

15 only today. Her first name is spelled P-R-I-Y-A, last 

16 name is spelled K-R-I-S-H-A.

17 Good afternoon, counsel.

18 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Good afternoon, Judge.

19 MR. STEVENSON: Good afternoon, Your Honor.

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you for reappearing 

21 today. We had last left off on October 24, 2011, with 

22 a question about the request for Production No. 9.

23 Mr. Stevenson, you were going to try and craft a more 

24 definitive statement of that particular request and 

25 share it with Mr. Goldstein before we reconvened 
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1 today. Did you have an opportunity to do that?

2 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, I did, Your Honor.

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And have the two of 

4 you reached an agreement about how that particular 

5 request could be further limited or made specific?

6 MR. STEVENSON: I think we mostly have, and 

7 Mr. Goldstein can correct me if I'm mistaken about 

8 this. There was one aspect of it that Mr. Goldstein 

9 thought was a bit confusing, but the suggestion that I 

10 had that might seem workable, what I'm trying to do is 

11 without knowing what exact sort of documents may have 

12 been created write this so we get anything that Dean 

13 International wrote or received about the potential 

14 violation aspects of these flights while not having 

15 them have to cough up every sort of random financial 

16 record that has something to do with the flight. I 

17 mean, I don't need to read those at this point. I 

18 don't want to make them produce them.

19 So, if Mr. Goldstein after he has a chance 

20 to consult with his client would just come to me and 

21 say, well, this is the sort of document that we have, 

22 is that the sort of thing that falls in here, and that 

23 way, then we can just say yes or no, and that way he 

24 doesn't have to produce it if it's not something we 

25 don't want. And then it's been clarified that, yes, 
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1 that is something we were asking for if it is. But 

2 I'm not sure, and again, Mr. Goldstein, please correct 

3 me if I'm misstating something.

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, before I turn to Mr. 

5 Goldstein, let me ask you this, Mr. Stevenson. Do you 

6 have any language that's different than the language I 

7 have before me in writing regarding Request for 

8 Production No. 9?

9 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor.

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What exactly is it that you 

11 want to have me consider for purposes of this motion 

12 to compel?

13 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. What I have, and I 

14 apologize, it's a bit wordy, except for privileged 

15 documents to or from your attorney, please produce any 

16 and all documents generated as a result of the 

17 allegedly improper aspects of the flights identified 

18 in the complaint, including but not limited to any 

19 disciplinary or employment action taken against an 

20 employee or independent contractor in whole or in part 

21 because of the flight, documents distributed to one or 

22 more Dean International students about the specific 

23 flights or about compliance with the applicable 

24 inspection requirements or documents submitted to Dean 

25 International by an employee, independent contractor 
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1 or student concerning the flights or compliance with 

2 the inspection requirements or any other communication 

3 to or from Dean International about the flight.

4 And then at the end I noted Dean 

5 International need not produce any such document that 

6 is a communication to or from the FAA.

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Stevenson, are you 

8 talking about this particular timeframe dating back to 

9 February 28, 2010, and being prospective up through 

10 today's date, or do you have a shorter time period in 

11 mind?

12 MR. STEVENSON: Well, I guess I did not have 

13 a specific shorter time period in mind. However, I 

14 guess my presumption had been that as a practical 

15 matter any such document would have been created 

16 either around the time of the flights or right after 

17 Dean International had been informed by the FAA of the 

18 potential violations. I mean, I imagine that anything 

19 that has been created more recently than that is 

20 probably going to fall into either the attorney-client 

21 or work product privileges.

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If we look at the other 

23 requests for production, we're looking at an outside 

24 date of May 21, 2010 through May 31, 2010 depending on 

25 which request for production we read.
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1 MR. STEVENSON: Yes.

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So do you have a position 

3 about whether one of those dates might be applicable 

4 or if another date close in time to the three 

5 violations pending would be preferable?

6 MR. STEVENSON: Well, I don't think that 

7 those dates would be appropriate because those dates 

8 are based on the time when the violations occurred 

9 whereas these documents that we're asking for in this 

10 request for production would all necessarily have been 

11 created at the tail-end of or after that timeframe.

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You had indicated on 

13 October 24, 2011, that you started to get involved in 

14 this particular case prior to it coming to this office 

15 around September 2010, is that correct?

16 MR. STEVENSON: I believe if I recall 

17 correctly, September 2010 was when we issued the 

18 original notice of proposed civil penalty.

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If we look at Request for 

20 Production No. 9 as you have crafted it today, if 

21 there was an end period of time of September 21, 2010, 

22 would that meet your needs?

23 MR. STEVENSON: I guess I don't think so 

24 because let's say, for example, that in September 2010 

25 we issued the notice and then in October 2010 that 
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1 resulted in Dean International turning around and at 

2 that point in time saying something to its instructors 

3 or its students or its dispatcher about this matter 

4 that was prompted by them receiving the notice. I 

5 would want that to be included in the scope of the 

6 request.

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thanks. I 

8 understand what your interest is.

9 Mr. Goldstein, turning to you, can you tell 

10 me if you recall about when your client started 

11 seeking some consultation about this case.

12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Probably not without going 

13 back and looking at the case file. But I know that I 

14 was not involved in it when Mr. Dean on his own 

15 responded in writing to the notice of proposed civil 

16 penalty that he sent to the original counsel. I'm not 

17 sure if his response was to the letter of 

18 investigation. I'm not even sure. I can find out, 

19 but if you'll give me a moment.

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I think you can 

21 answer the next question without taking a look at your 

22 file. In terms of this particular request for 

23 production, do you take any position about an end date 

24 for the request?

25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, I think going to 
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1 September is way too long. I mean, these are 

2 documents that the FAA is seeking with regard to this 

3 flight. I mean, I told Mr. Stevenson that basically 

4 what he described to you is what our conversation was, 

5 that I was okay and we'd see what we had and then he 

6 and I would discuss it. But I do think September is 

7 way beyond anything that's going to be relevant.

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In your opinion, what would 

9 be a preferred end date from your client's 

10 perspective?

11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, a date close to the 

12 three dates that are involved in the allegations which 

13 were in February and March, is that not correct, 

14 February and March. So I would say probably the end 

15 of March.

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The dates I have before me 

17 are February 28, 2010; March 1, 2010; and April 22, 

18 2010. I have three different violation dates.

19 MR. GOLDSTEIN: April 22 is the latest date. 

20 So I would say that I don't want to hurt my client's 

21 case because they did take some affirmative action to 

22 correct some concerns that the FAA had and those might 

23 fall within the scope of this request. I'm not trying 

24 to have it both ways either, but it's hard to answer 

25 your question.
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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, in terms of this 

2 particular request for production, it's possible as I 

3 hear from you that there could be some things coming 

4 in that you wouldn't necessarily want to have admitted 

5 at the hearing. Is that what I'm hearing from you?

6 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes, on the grounds of 

7 relevance. And there are some things that I would 

8 want to come in that show a compliant attitude that 

9 the company took in response to the concerns raised by 

10 the FAA that may have occurred after say the end of 

11 May. I just don't know at this moment.

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. The fact that you 

13 disclosed them under a request for production doesn't 

14 necessarily mean that they're admissible, so I want to 

15 make sure that that's understood by everybody.

16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I understand, but what I was 

17 concerned about, Your Honor, is the opposite of that. 

18 In other words, if we put an end date on it, say the 

19 end of May, and my client took some action to show 

20 compliance or to show the FAA it was in compliance 

21 that was after the end of May, I wouldn't want to be 

22 precluded from introducing those.

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I see.

24 MR. GOLDSTEIN: And of course we would 

25 produce those to the FAA because we'd have to do. 
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1 We'd say these are the exhibits. So that was my 

2 concern.

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, from your perspective,

4 Mr. Goldstein, it sounds like you don't have a strong 

5 objection to keeping this open-ended in the event that 

6 you and Mr. Stevenson can work collaboratively on it 

7 after this conference is over.

8 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think Mr. Stevenson 

9 described our conversation accurately. Let me take a 

10 look and see what we have and describe it to him, and 

11 then we'll be dealing with real documents and he and I 

12 can work it out. And if not, we'll have to resort to 

13 getting back with you, Your Honor.

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So essentially at 

15 this point it sounds like both parties would prefer to 

16 have no timeframe specifically established, but if 

17 there's problems in the future, then Mr. Stevenson 

18 and/or Mr. Goldstein can move for relief. Would that 

19 be a fair summary, Mr. Stevenson?

20 MR. STEVENSON: That sounds fair, Your 

21 Honor.

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Goldstein?

23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes, Your Honor.

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then I will direct 

25 the Respondent to answer the amended request for 
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1 production that the FAA has read into the record 

2 today. That basically concludes all of the disputed 

3 discovery issues according to my notes.

4 Mr. Stevenson, is there anything else out 

5 there that we haven't addressed in terms of 

6 interrogatories or requests for production?

7 MR. STEVENSON: I believe that we have 

8 addressed everything that was raised in the FAA's 

9 motion.

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And, Mr. Goldstein, 

11 is there anything else that you know of that has not 

12 yet been addressed in terms of interrogatories and/or 

13 requests for production?

14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, I believe we've covered 

15 it, Your Honor.

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then the next 

17 question, and this will be to you, Mr. Goldstein, is 

18 what timeframe does the Respondent need in terms of 

19 following the Court's directives for answering the 

20 interrogatories as ordered on October 24, 2011, and 

21 the requests for production which we've discussed both 

22 on October 24, 2011, and today?

23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I would ask for 45 days and 

24 hopefully wouldn't need anywhere near that time, but I 

25 don't like to box myself in. But may I ask, Your 
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1 Honor, are you going to issue a written order?

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I will.

3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay. All right.

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But just so you know, it 

5 won't be as detailed as what we went through. For 

6 example, I can tell you I have got something drafted. 

7 For example, I will say things like I'll identify 

8 each and every interrogatory, note that it was granted 

9 or granted with limitations and then generally 

10 identify what the order was.

11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: That's fine. That's fine.

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. But it won't say 

13 exactly the same thing that I said when I was speaking 

14 on the record. So the record will basically be a 

15 supplement for specifics.

16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: And will we get a copy of 

17 the transcript of the hearing from the other day as 

18 well?

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The transcript will be 

20 filed with this office, and if I recall correctly, it 

21 will be posted and available for review after a 

22 certain period of time. I can't remember if that's 

23 five days or a little longer than that.

24 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay. That would be great.

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In terms of 45 days, 
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1 today is the 26th of October, and I need to jump back 

2 into my computer calendar.

3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, today is the 299th day 

4 of the year, so that would be 344.

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say the 299th 

6 day, you're counting from January 1, 2011?

7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes, I'm just looking at my 

8 calendar, Your Honor, that says today is the 299th 

9 day.

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: So 299 and 45 is 344.

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're talking about 

13 December 12 I think.

14 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes. 344th is the 10th, 

15 which is a Saturday.

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Right. Mr. 

17 Stevenson, since the Court has canceled the trial date 

18 that was set for that week, do you have any objection 

19 to a 45-day period of time for the Respondent to 

20 complete its discovery?

21 MR. STEVENSON: We won't object.

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then, Mr. Goldstein, 

23 I will so direct you to tell your client to produce 

24 and provide all discovery that's been ordered on or 

25 before December 12, 2011.
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1 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay. Thank you.

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're welcome. Folks, if 

3 you have any problems with the Request for Production 

4 No. 9, to avoid the tight rush to the courthouse 

5 essentially on that, why don't I give you a due date 

6 for that as well. If there are any problems at all, 

7 what I'd like to have you do is jointly call Diane 

8 Mays, who is my administrative assistant, and get on 

9 my calendar for an expedited motion on that on or 

10 before November 18.

11 Now, Mr. Stevenson, I'm going to turn to you 

12 for this next question and then I'll turn to Mr. 

13 Goldstein after that. You will be getting all the 

14 discovery that you have requested that we've discussed 

15 and that I've ordered on or before December 12, 2011. 

16 That's right before the general holiday season, so 

17 keep that in mind.

18 How much time do you think you will need 

19 after December 12, 2011, to take depositions? And I 

20 should mention to both of you, I'm going to tell you 

21 what my calendar is in January. I've been calendaring 

22 cases, so I have some time in early February for a 

23 trial, and then I tend to have some early March dates 

24 and then some dates in April. So, with that in mind, 

25 how much time do you need to take these depositions?
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1 Do you need 30 days, for example, after 

2 December 12, 2011? Do you need 45 days? Do you need 

3 10 days? Can you give me a sense of how much time you 

4 think you would need to schedule and take those 

5 depositions? Because clearly you can start to 

6 schedule them before December 12, 2011, but they 

7 shouldn't be taken though until after that period of 

8 time.

9 MR. STEVENSON: Yes. Well, without having 

10 run this by all the parties involved, I'm going to 

11 presume that someone who is necessary for the 

12 depositions is not going to be available in those last 

13 couple of weeks of December. I mean, that's just the 

14 holidays generally, and as Your Honor is probably 

15 familiar dealing with, there's a couple of the 

16 inspectors involved in this who are relatively senior 

17 and probably have some sort of use-or-lose that often 

18 ends up getting stuck there at the end of the year.

19 So we'd probably have to look at January for 

20 when we would actually conduct the depositions. And I 

21 personally have a hearing, a multi-day hearing 

22 scheduled in the week of the 9th.

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say "the week of 

24 the 9th", are you talking about January 2012?

25 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor. I'm sorry. 
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1 So, if we said 30 days from that December 12 date, we 

2 may effectively be trying to put it into one 

3 particular week, which would be the week of January 2. 

4 If we're setting a hard deadline, we probably don't 

5 want to put all of our eggs in that basket, so it 

6 might be better to say we'll get them done by

7 January 27, which is the last day of the last full 

8 week in January 2012. That gives us three weeks to 

9 hopefully be able to work with everyone's calendars.

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. Goldstein, 

11 what's your position?

12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I guess I'm a bit confused, 

13 Your Honor. The only deposition that I understand 

14 that the FAA wants to take is of Mr. Dean.

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And as I understand it, you 

16 were planning to take a variety of depositions 

17 yourself.

18 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes.

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We're trying to talk about 

20 having all of those done because I think we still have 

21 an interest that's been expressed by Mr. Stevenson to 

22 come to Miami once and take care of all of the 

23 depositions at one time.

24 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay. And I've always said 

25 I don't have a problem with that. I think that you 
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1 said the week of January 27?

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I believe Mr. Stevenson was 

3 positing that that might give you enough time. My 

4 question is whether or not you agree with that.

5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think that's enough time, 

6 the week of the 23rd through the 27th probably 

7 depending, you know.

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay.

9 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I spoke to my client this 

10 morning thinking you'd probably ask about availability 

11 in the first three months of the year. He is

12 available that week.

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. What I will do, I 

14 will simply err on the side of caution for you both, 

15 and I'll set the deposition due date for January 31, 

16 which is the last day of the month, of 2012.

17 Mr. Goldstein, I'm going to turn to you 

18 next. You had originally expressed an interest in 

19 having a little bit of extra time after the 

20 depositions were complete for any final discovery 

21 matters. Can you tell me after January 31, 2012, how 

22 much time you think you would need in order to 

23 complete your exploratory phase?

24 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Your Honor just asked 

25 exactly the question I was going to raise, and I do 
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1 want to have the ability to do followup discovery. My 

2 suspicion is I will not need to take more depositions, 

3 although it's possible I will, but rather it will be a 

4 matter of document requests from the FAA. So I would 

5 say two weeks after I get the transcript to make 

6 document requests, further document requests, and if 

7 it appears that I'm going to want to take other 

8 depositions, then I will know that I think when the 

9 depositions are taken.

10 So I'd like to have the ability within that 

11 two-week period to say that I want to take additional 

12 depositions, to not necessarily have them done during 

13 that two-week period because availability is always a 

14 concern.

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So tell me in terms of an 

16 actual date.

17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Okay.

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're saying two weeks 

19 from the 31st to get more documentation.

20 MR. GOLDSTEIN: To ask for, yes.

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: To ask for. And then how

22 much time after that to be able to go home and sleep 

23 all night without thinking about the case being done 

24 before trial?

25 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I didn't understand that. 
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1 How much time?

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You have indicated that you 

3 need about two weeks after January 31, 2012, to obtain 

4 further discovery and you hope under the best 

5 circumstances that all you'll need is written 

6 material.

7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I thought I said two weeks 

8 after the transcript is done.

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. How long does it 

10 take to get a transcript for depositions from your 

11 experience?

12 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Probably two weeks.

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And then how long 

14 after that four-week period, because you're now 

15 talking about four weeks, do you think you need for 

16 any final discovery purposes?

17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, I could say what I 

18 need pretty quickly within two weeks easily and then 

19 scheduling it would simply be a matter of 

20 availability. And again, I don't think I will require 

21 additional depositions. It's just impossible to say.

22 Mainly, in my experience, it would be document 

23 requests.

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I understand that, and 

25 I don't want to guess on your behalf. I want you to 
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1 tell me in your opinion based on your experience how 

2 much total time you ideally want me to consider for 

3 your client.

4 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, in that light, I would 

5 say an extra 30 days.

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, for example, as 

7 of February 29, 2012, you would be comfortable with a 

8 complete discovery cutoff date?

9 (Pause.)

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm not hearing a response.

11 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, because I'm not sure. 

12 Do you mean February 29 would be the last day to make 

13 a discovery request or to have the discovery 

14 accomplished?

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Have the discovery 

16 accomplished. I want you tell me as best you can, and 

17 I know some of this is a bit of a guess, but you've 

18 had 40 years of litigation experience and I'm relying 

19 upon that.

20 MR. GOLDSTEIN: More.

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: On more. So tell me how 

22 much total time you're going to need after January 31, 

23 2012, to request additional written materials, to 

24 schedule any further depositions and to be comfortable 

25 that you've done what you need to do.
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1 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Again, I'm sorry if I'm 

2 appearing dense, Your Honor, but I can make the 

3 requests I think within a couple of weeks after I get 

4 the transcript. But if I make a request for a 

5 document production, if the FAA has 30 days, then 

6 obviously I need to make the request that they have 30 

7 days to respond.

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Tell me as best you can 

9 knowing all of those timeframes and due dates.

10 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I would say the end of March 

11 then to be safe. March 30.

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And in terms of to be safe, 

13 see, I'm looking at this and I'm thinking I can do a 

14 deposition. At the close of the deposition, I would 

15 have a very good idea of what kind of materials I 

16 would need from someone without having to wait for a 

17 transcript because I'm taking notes.

18 But I'm just saying. So once I get that 

19 material and I'll ask for it right away, then I can 

20 see who I need to call for a return deposition and I 

21 don't need necessarily to wait for a transcript to 

22 figure that out. So I understand what you're asking 

23 me in terms of an ideal period of time, but it seems 

24 to me given the length of time that this case has been 

25 pending that we could close that gap a little bit. 
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1 But I'm hearing from you that you're not comfortable 

2 or confident that that could occur.

3 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Well, I think comfortable is 

4 the term and I do take notes at depositions, but 

5 sometimes you can't write everything down exactly when 

6 I ask what document would this be in and so forth and 

7 sometimes you just don't get it right.

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. And I'm not 

9 suggesting that you don't or that you're not a zealous 

10 advocate. I'm just saying that from my own experience 

11 I have not felt the need to wait for the transcript in 

12 each and every case. So when I hear you say that 

13 you're going to need essentially 60 days after the 

14 last scheduled deposition, it raises some bells for 

15 me, but I will accept that as your ideal.

16 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm being cautious, no 

17 question about it.

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, that's true. So let 

19 me ask you this, and I'm staying with you, Mr. 

20 Goldstein, in terms of a trial date or hearing date, 

21 and we're just going to say for after 60 days, I take 

22 it that you would be ready to go shortly after that.

23 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes.

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Stevenson, let's 

25 turn to you. What is your sense of any further 
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1 discovery after January 31, 2012, and when you might 

2 be available for an actual hearing date in Miami, 

3 Florida?

4 MR. STEVENSON: Well, as far as my 

5 availability timing-wise, I mean, at that point we're 

6 at such a far enough time that I can honestly tell 

7 Your Honor I literally don't have anything on my 

8 calendar for those times. I mean, it hasn't even 

9 populated the holidays yet. So my availability, 

10 that's not an issue.

11 I would say I'm concerned that we're getting 

12 so far out in potential dates here. I mean, it's 

13 almost like we're redoing the entire discovery process 

14 at this point. I know I didn't object to the 45-day 

15 request for the timeframe, but that's something that's 

16 usually done 30 days for a full response to a full 

17 original discovery request.

18 And I would tend to agree with Your Honor 

19 that usually where there is a request for production 

20 following a deposition, that's something that you 

21 would do almost immediately after the deposition is 

22 concluded, although I understand that Mr. Goldstein 

23 needs to be conservative in order to protect his 

24 client's interests.

25 With that said, at the same time that I'm 
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1 saying I think we're stretching this out a little bit, 

2 I don't know that I'd want to go immediately from the 

3 close of the discovery period to a hearing date 

4 because I believe that in this case there may be many 

5 issues that are amenable potentially to stipulation 

6 for factual issues and I think then to a summary 

7 judgment or at least a partial summary judgment 

8 motion.

9 So I think it would be helpful to have that. 

10 For example, I mean, you've heard in this discussion 

11 I don't think that there is ultimately going to be any 

12 factual dispute that the aircraft flew past the 100-

13 hour mark after these inspections but did not fly past 

14 the 110-hour mark.

15 And it is going to end up being the Agency's 

16 position that that constitutes a violation and 

17 Respondent's position that that doesn't constitute a 

18 violation, and so that is the sort of issue that I 

19 think we could just deal with on motions without 

20 having to have a lengthy or more drawn out hearing.

21 So I'd like to get this done more quickly. 

22 At the same time, I also want to make sure that we 

23 have some time built in for working on stipulations 

24 and some judgment motions.

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let me take a look 
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1 at my calendar and I'm going to give you some dates 

2 and then ask you to respond.

3 (Pause.)

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. This is what I'm 

5 going to suggest. I want to take a look at your April 

6 calendars for a trial date. Starting with you, Mr. 

7 Stevenson, do you have time in the week of April 1-7 

8 for a trial in Miami, Florida?

9 MR. STEVENSON: There is no problem from my 

10 personal schedule, Your Honor, although let me add the 

11 obvious proviso that I have not checked with any of 

12 the potential witnesses. If for some reason they have 

13 nonrefundable travel scheduled then or something, I 

14 would have to do that.

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Goldstein, your 

16 calendar? Any impediments to the week of April 1-7?

17 MR. GOLDSTEIN: No, Your Honor. I would 

18 just note April 6 is Good Friday, Friday, the 6th is 

19 Good Friday, and the 8th is Easter Sunday just for 

20 travel issues.

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay.

22 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I don't have anything on my 

23 calendar at all for April.

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I've had the Easter 

25 issue come up with some other folks as well. Thank 
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1 you for pointing that out. Mr. Stevenson, turning to 

2 you, do you have time available for a trial the week 

3 of April 23?

4 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, Your Honor.

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Goldstein, do you have 

6 time for a trial the week of April 23?

7 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes, Your Honor.

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's plan on scheduling 

9 this for the week of April 23, and essentially we're 

10 going to replicate the same thing we had in December, 

11 which is the Monday day during that week, Monday, 

12 April 23, 2012, it will be a travel day. Tuesday, 

13 April 24, Wednesday, April 25, and Thursday, April 26 

14 will be the actual trial dates in Miami, Florida, with 

15 Friday, April 27 being the travel day for return for 

16 anyone who needs to travel out.

17 With that essentially, then I'm going to 

18 suggest, and I'll open this for comment, that we have 

19 a February 10, 2012, due date for any requests for 

20 material subsequent to the depositions that are taken 

21 in January 2012; all depositions taken between the 

22 date of February 1, 2012 to the date of March 16, 

23 2012, with discovery being completed as of March 16, 

24 2012.

25 In terms of evidentiary exchange due dates, 
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1 it seems to me that you could easily have -- I 

2 shouldn't say easily. Nothing is ever that easy in 

3 trial, but you could have your complete exchange of 

4 evidence, that being the list of witnesses that you're 

5 planning to call, a short statement of the testimony, 

6 documents, resumés and so forth, filed with each other 

7 on or before March 30, 2012.

8 Stipulations can come in at any time between 

9 now and the date of the trial. Motions for summary 

10 judgment, I'm going to ask the parties to have motions 

11 for summary judgment, any dispositive motions filed on 

12 or before March 21, 2012.

13 And then what I'd like to do is also direct 

14 you, if you are filing a motion for summary judgment, 

15 actually I can set that up. Excuse me. Let me just 

16 look at my calendar. What I'm going to do is ask both 

17 of you, if you have time available on Thursday,

18 April 12, 2012, I'm going to set up a motion 

19 conference for summary judgment or other dispositive 

20 motions by telephone on that day if I can. And then I 

21 will backtrack from that day for any answer and reply 

22 for motions.

23 Starting with you, Mr. Stevenson, do you 

24 have any time available on April 12, 2012, for a 

25 maximum one-hour telephone conference?
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1 MR. STEVENSON: Anytime of day is fine with 

2 me, Your Honor.

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Goldstein, do you have 

4 time available on that day?

5 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes, Your Honor, anytime.

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't we plan on 

7 1:30 Eastern Time on April 12, 2012, for a motion 

8 conference on any dispositive motions. With that in 

9 mind, I was looking at my calendar and kind of 

10 backtracking, I'm going to direct the answer to any 

11 dispositive motions filed by March 30, 2012, any reply 

12 will be filed no later than April 4, 2012. And then 

13 if there are no dispositive motions, I'll simply 

14 cancel the April 12, 2012. I'm sorry, I gave a little 

15 bit of a short end to the reply people. Excuse me. 

16 The reply should be April 10, excuse me.

17 And then April 12, if there is no 

18 dispositive motion filed, I'll unilaterally cancel 

19 that. So anything else I need to address for you? 

20 Mr. Stevenson, is there anything else that I need to 

21 address for you and your client today?

22 MR. STEVENSON: Well, the one thing I wanted 

23 to ask just to make sure whether these scheduling 

24 dates will also be in Your Honor's order?

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Absolutely.
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1 MR. STEVENSON: Okay. That was the only 

2 question I had, Your Honor.

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What I will do is I'll 

4 issue an order on the motions to compel and the

5 motions for sanction and then I'll issue another 

6 separate order that just has the litigation dates and 

7 procedures so that you have the two separate orders. 

8 I think that's a little easier in terms of 

9 calendaring.

10 Mr. Goldstein, is there anything else that 

11 we need to set up for a litigation date or anything 

12 else we need to address for your client?

13 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Your Honor, I can't think of 

14 anything now.

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you both very 

16 much for your presence today. It appears our business 

17 is complete. If you don't settle the case, I look 

18 forward to seeing you in April 2012. With that, we 

19 can go off the record, and I wish you all a good day.

20 MR. GOLDSTEIN: Thank you, Your Honor. Same 

21 to you.

22 MR. STEVENSON: Thank you, Your Honor.

23 (Whereupon, at 2:14 p.m., the hearing in the 

24 above-entitled matter was concluded.)

25 //
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

DOCKET NO.: FAA-2011-0069

CASE TITLE: Dean International, Inc.

HEARING DATE: October 26, 2011

LOCATION: Washington, D.C.

I hereby certify that the proceedings and 

evidence are contained fully and accurately on the 

tapes and notes reported by me at the hearing in the 

above case before the United States Department of 

Transportation.

Date: October 26, 2011

 

Peter J. Torres

Official Reporter

Heritage Reporting Corporation

Suite 600

1220 L Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005-4018