• 

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

+ + + + + 

: I j 

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTA~IO¥ ; .... ;~ ~.''',' . 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS it 'i ",,' 

+ + + + + 

HEARING 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

FAA Docket No. 

CP10NM0011 

FEDERAL EXPRESS 

CORPORATION 

DMS Docket No. 

FAA-2010-0977 

VOLUME IV 

Thursday, 

August 25, 2011 

The above-entitled matter came on for 

further hearing, pursuant to recess, at 9:02 

a.m. 

BEFORE: 

(202) 234-4433 

THE HONORABLE RICHARD C. GOODWIN 

Administrative Law Judge 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 2000"i-1701 

951 

" -: I ,~: i I 
• 

• 

APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

KYLE LOMAZOW, ESQ. 

of: FAA Office of Regional Counsel 

1601 Lind Avenue SW, ANM-7 

Renton, Washington 98057 

(425) 227-1847 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

CYNTHIA CHANDLER-SNELL, ESQ. 

of: FedEx Express 

3620 Hacks Cross Road 

Building B, 3rd Floor 

Memphis, Tennessee 38125 

(901) 434-8361 

(202) 234-4433 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 

952 

www.nealrgross.com 
WITNESSES: 

Donald Stiger 

EXHIBITS: 

(None. ) 

(202) 234-4433 

953 

RE- REDIRECT CROSS DIRECT CROSS 

954 975 

MARKED RECEIVED 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

954 

1 PRO C E E DIN G S 

2 9:02 a.m. 

3 JUDGE GOODWIN: Remember we're 

4 going to take a break between 11:30 and 11:45 

5 to allow the audio system to be worked on, and 

6 the audio system will be down. 

7 You can be seated. 

8 So, Agent Stiger, you want to 

9 return to the stand? I remind you that you're 

10 still under oath. 

11 Counsel. 

12 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Thank you, 

13 Your Honor. 

14 DONALD STIGER, COMPLAINANT'S WITNESS, 

15 PREVIOUSLY SWORN 

16 CROSS EXAMINATION (RESUMED) 

17 BY MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: 

18 Q Agent Stiger, you agree that 

19 173 .199 does not apply to a shipment that 

20 contains no regulated material; right? 

21 A By definition, it's not a 

22 hazardous material. Therefore, the HMRs do 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

• 12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

955 

not apply. 

Q Okay. And based on the testimony 

that you've heard and the materials provided 

to you, you agree that in this particular case 

regarding UN 3373 shipments, there was no 

regulated material? 

A The results of the investigation 

finally determined that the materials in the 

two shipments in question were determined not 

to be -- meet the requirement or meet the 

Category B biological substance. 

Q So in this case, regarding the 

UN 3373 shipments, no regulated material was 

improperly transported? 

A At the time it was tendered, it 

was marked, but the subsequent investigation 

after it was discovered determined that the 

material did not meet the definition of a 

Category B infectious substance. 

Q So there was no regulated material 

transported at all here? 

A Ultimately, it was discovered as 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealraross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

• 22 

956 

such. 

Q Okay. Now, I want to clarify 

something. There are two different types 

of -- actually three different types of 

inspections that we talked about. Do you 

agree that there is a general inspection of 

packages, of all packages, when an air carrier 

loads them onto an aircraft? 

A picks 'em up when there's--

there's a general inspection when the material 

lS tendered from a shipper to a carrier. 

Q And we refer to that often as 

acceptance; right? 

A That is the acceptance. 

Q Okay. For dangerous goods, those 

shipments require what's really a second 

inspection, an inspection for the markings, 

the labeling, to make sure they're properly 

marked and labeled; right? 

A The inspection is conducted at the 

time that the material's offered and picked up 

by a carrier. So the item becomes regulated 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

957 

1 in transportation when a carrier picks up a 

2 hazardous material. 

3 Q You understand that there are no 

4 air carriers who have dangerous goods 

5 specialists picking up packages at someone's 

6 front doori right? 

7 A In regards to what carriers say is 

8 a dangerous goods specialist? No. In the 

9 case of FedEx Express, you have air carrier 

10 employees who are named courlers that will 

11 pick up a hazardous material on that, and 

12 there's a preliminary - - based on your manual, 

13 you do a preliminary inspection of that. If 

14 it's -- there's markings and indicators on 

15 there, there is a preliminary inspection that 

16 is done. There then is a secondary inspection 

17 based on procedures established by carriers 

18 where they'll have a specif ically trained 

19 specialist look at that. If at that time the 

20 material or the shipment for some reason or 

21 another is not in compliance with that, that 

22 is why both FedEx Express and UPS Airlines 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 WVNJ nA;::alrnrnc::.c::. r-nm 
• 

• 

958 

1 have that special permit I believe it's 

2 14680 -- that allows them to transport that 

3 material by road back - - no more than I 

4 believe it's 150 miles from the orlgln 

5 station back to the shipper. In other 

6 words, if a regulated party, an air carrier, 

7 or any carrier, determines that the material's 

8 not in compliance with the Hazardous Material 

9 Regulations, they are not authorized to 

10 transport the material back. That's hence the 

11 special provisions of special permits that 

12 were applied for and I believe granted both --

13 I -- I've seen both utilized by FedEx Express 

14 as well as UPS Airlines that allows the 

15 transport of the material back when it has 

16 been recognized at that origin station that 

17 it's not in compliance with the HMRs. 

18 Q For a regular package --

19 A Correct. 

20 Q that lS not a declared 

21 dangerous good, 

22 A Yes . 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

959 

1 Q air carriers are required to 

2 inspect those 

3 A Correct. 

4 Q -- which just involves looking --

5 I think you had called it the six-side check, 

6 looking at the box, 

7 A Yes. 

8 Q -- making sure there's no leakage, 

9 no damage, no integrity problem, or any 

10 indications that it's a suspicious package. 

11 A Correct . 

12 Q And you agree that there's another 

13 kind of inspection that's required for 

14 dangerous goods shipments that goes well 

15 beyond the looking at the six sides of the 

16 box, looking for suspicious markings or 

17 labelings. It involves the acceptance process 

18 for dangerous goods, making sure that 

19 everything for this type of material has been 

20 done by the carrier -- I mean, by the shipper 

21 In preparation for transport . 

22 A There is, and that's - - that lS 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

• 12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

960 

wholly dependent on the material that's being 

offered for transportation. 

Q Right. So there have been times, 

I think, in your testimony where we've said 

"inspection," and in your testimony, you've 

been referencing for UN 3373 inspection at 

acceptance; is that right? 

A There's an inspection at 

acceptance, yes. 

Q And for UN 3373 shipments, your 

testimony has been that there's also an 

inspection at offload; correct? 

A That if the package 1S in 

compliance with 173.199, there's the 

additional offload inspection that's required 

that, my understanding, is not required of 

other hazardous material packages. This is an 

additional requirement if the shipment is 

shipped and transported under the exception in 

173.199. 

Q You'll agree, in relation to the 

UN 3373 shipments in these cases, that no 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealraross.com 
• 

• 

• 

961 

1 dangerous goods were actually accepted from 

2 the shippers? 

3 A It was ultimately determined that 

4 the material inside was found not to meet the 

5 definition of a Category B biological 

6 substance. 

7 Q Okay. So the acceptance of 

8 something that doesn't meet the definition of 

9 a Category B infectious substance doesn't 

10 require any special handling under the CFR, 

11 does it? 

12 A The CFRs do not cover a material 

13 by definition, there's a hazardous -- it 

14 has to meet the def ini t ion of a hazardous 

15 material, though there are provisions for 

16 transporting items marked or labeled or 

17 described as a hazardous material when it is 

18 not. 

19 Q I don't want to put you on the 

20 spot, but do you know that provision? 

21 A The one that I am familiar with 

22 the majority of the time 1S 173- -- or excuse 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealraross.com 
• 

• 

• 

962 

1 me -- 172.301, I believe, prohibited marking 

2 lS one that I've had experience with, as well 

3 as I believe it's 172(k). If I could look at 

4 the regulations, I can refresh myself. 

5 Q Let me have just a second, and 

6 we'll see if we need to 

7 A Okay. 

8 Q -- get into that. 

9 (Pause. ) 

10 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: May I 

11 approach, Your Honor? 

12 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yes. 

13 BY MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: 

14 Q And for reference, I think we'll 

15 be looking at 49 CFR 172.303. 

16 A 303. Okay. 

17 Q I think that's the one. 

18 A Yes, 172.303 is prohibited 

19 marking. 

20 Q Okay. And can you read that for 

21 the Court, please? 

22 A On (a): 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www_nA::Ilrnrnc:c:: ("'ArYl 
• 

• 

963 

1 "No person may offer for trans2 portation or transport a package 

3 which is marked with the proper 

4 shipping name l the identification 

5 number of a hazardous material l or 

6 any other marking indicating that 

7 the material is hazardous unless 

8 the package contains the identi9 fied hazardous material or its 

10 residue." 

11 Q Okay. 

12 (Pause. ) 

13 Are you familiar with the 

14 provisions under which FedEx l Corporate Air 

15 and Empire Air were cited in these cases? 

16 A My understanding l it was the 

17 general citationsl as well as -- general 

18 citations under the general requirements I as 

19 well as 175.3. But rId have to take a look at 

20 the ... 

21 (Pause. ) 

22 Q So according to your testimony I in 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

• 12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

964 

these cases, the violations you believe to 

have occurred on the UN 3373 shipments is that 

they were transported when they had an 

identification number of a hazardous material, 

but they didn't contain that hazardous 

material? 

A Part of the -- I believe also 

there was the failure to inspect on that. 

There was - - at the time that the material was 

offered, at the time the material was 

accepted, and at the time that the material 

was transported, there was all indications 

that the material was regulated based on the 

marking, based on the time that the material 

was transported. And it wasn't until the 

subsequent investigation, after it was 

discovered by Agent Luscher, that they were 

able to, with hind- with 20/20 hindsight, 

go back and look at the material and see if it 

was actually to determine if it was 

regulated as a Category B biological 

substance. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

965 

1 Q And the determination was that 

2 there were no hazardous materials transported. 

3 A They finally determined, based on 

4 subsequent conversation -- my understanding, 

5 subsequent conversations between Agent Luscher 

6 and the shipper in question, that it did not 

7 meet the definition of a Category B infectious 

8 substance. But it was only after it had been 

9 gotten to that point, and it was after it was 

10 discovered that that determination was made. 

11 Q And that applies to, for clarifi12 cation of the record, the two UN 3373 

13 shipments in the case involving FedEx and 

14 Corporate Air, and the UN 3373 shipments in 

15 the case involving FedEx and Empire? 

16 MR. LOMAZOW: Objection, Your 

17 Honor. Asked and answered. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: Overruled. 

19 THE WITNESS: That was - - yes, 

20 both cases, it was ultimately determined for 

21 the two shipments, FedEx and Corporate, and 

22 the one shipment between FedEx and Empire, was 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

• 12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

966 

ultimately determined that the material was 

not regulated. 

(Pause. ) 

MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Your Honor, 

if I may have just a moment? I'm almost done. 

(Pause. ) 

BY MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: 

Q Okay. Agent Stiger, are you 

familiar with the field manual? 

A I'm sorry. Which field manual? 

Q The one for FAA agents. 

A Oh. 

Q There may be another name. 

A That's our national inspection and 

investigation manual. Yes. I helped - - I was 

on the committee that developed, wrote, and 

then recommended to our management to adopt in 

regards to the inspection procedures, 

techniques, on how to conduct inspections of 

shippers, air carriers. And then there's a 

subsequent investigation manual that was 

developed alongside by another committee of 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

• 22 

967 

agents and management that, when combined, is 

the National Inspection and Investigation 

Manual. They call it the NI2M. 

Q Now, 1S that the same as the 2150? 

A That 1S not the same as the 21-

the 2150 is a order. The inspection manual is 

a guidance document that is utilized by field 

agents in helping to conduct inspections and 

investigations. It basically lays out 

provides scenarios, provides guidance on 

what's to be looked at, how much 1S to be 

looked at, where do you look at it? It's a 

guidance document that, if a new agent came 

in, that they would be trained to do that. A 

lot of it contains inspection techniques and 

procedures. 

Q Are you familiar with both of 

those manuals? 

A I'm familiar in the regards I did 

not help write the investigations manual, but 

then I did go through the course to help teach 

the investigations manual. So I've gone 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

968 

1 through -- more familiar with the inspection 

2 manual, but at the same time, familiar with 

3 the investigation manual, as it's the 

4 provides a national guideline on how to 

5 conduct investigations and prepare enforcement 

6 cases. 

7 Q Are you familiar with the 

8 provision in the field manual regarding 

9 fairness? 

10 A I'd 

11 MR. LOMAZOW: Objection, Your 

12 Honor. What's the relevancy of this? 

13 JUDGE GOODWIN: Overruled. 

14 THE WITNESS: I have - - I - - you 

15 know, in looking at the field manual, I'd have 

16 to -- I believe there's a provision ln there 

17 that talks about, you know, you have to be 

18 obj ecti ve as possible. But I can't - - I don't 

19 know if there's a specific section that 

20 references fairness. I know there's the 

21 objective nature that you must have in regards 

22 to conducting the inspections and investigaNEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

969 

1 tions. In other words, it's gathering all the 

2 facts. 

3 Q Okay. Let me -- I'm going to read 

4 something to you and see if you recognize it 

5 generally. 

6 A Okay. 

7 Q This is for the record, I'm 

8 looking at 2150, the manual that was provided 

9 in response to --

10 A That would be the FAA order. 

11 Q Okay. 

12 A Yeah. 

13 Q I'm sorry. It was provided to 

14 FedEx and Corporate Air in response to 

15 interrogatories and discovery in this case. 

16 On page 2-3, provision (g) , 

17 fairness: 

18 "To be effective, the Agency's 

19 compliance and enforcement program 

20 must be fair and reasonable, and 

21 should be perceived as fair by 

22 those subject to the regulation . 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

970 

1 This does not and should not imply 

2 an unwillingness to apply the full 

3 force of statutory sanctions where 

4 warranted. It does encompass the 

5 right of an apparent violator to 

6 be given objective, evenhanded 

7 consideration of all circumstances 

8 surrounding the allegations before 

9 final action is taken. It also 

10 requires good faith efforts to 

11 understand the apparent violator's 

12 position and take it into account, 

13 as well as to apprise the apparent 

14 violator of the Agency's position 

15 in a timely manner." 

16 Does that sound generally your 

17 recollection of 2150, the order you've 

18 referenced? 

19 A Yes. 

20 Q Okay. Are you aware of any 

21 provisions in 2150 regarding timeliness? 

22 A There are I know there are 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

971 

1 provisions in there -- I know the timeliness 

2 that would apply -- apply to us as agents in 

3 regards to preparation of the enforcement 

4 investigative report, and then the submission 

5 to our management, and then the submission to 

6 legal. I am not familiar with the timeliness 

7 once it is received by our Legal Department. 

8 I know there's timeliness issues on that, but 

9 I'm not familiar with that, no. 

10 Q Okay. Agent Stiger, I'd ask you 

11 to look at an exhibit marked R4. It's no in 

12 the manual - - I mean, it's not in the notebook 

13 you have. It should be in the stack near you. 

14 A Yes. 

15 Q Are you familiar with the document 

16 marked R4? 

17 A Not until we went over this case. 

18 I'd never seen this until I was brought in to 

19 help with this hearing. So the first time I 

20 did it was when we reviewed, I believe, the 

21 material that was submi t ted by you folks 

22 during the discovery process . 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

972 

1 Q So you were not aware that the 

2 letter that's marked as Exhibit R4 was sent? 

3 A I had never seen this until I was 

4 brought in to be the technical expert with 

5 this case. 

6 Q Did you know a let ter had been 

7 sent by FedEx to the FAA regarding UN 3373? 

8 A No, I had not. 

9 Q Okay. 

10 (Pause. ) 

11 Did you participate in any way in 

12 the sanction recommendations that were given 

13 in this case? 

14 A No, I did not. 

15 (Long pause.) 

16 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: No further 

17 questions, Your Honor. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: Agent Stiger, just 

19 so the Court is clear --

20 MR. LOMAZOW: Your Honor, if I can 

21 ask a few follow-up questions? 

22 JUDGE GOODWIN: No. Hold on. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

973 

1 There were - - in your review of 

2 the facts of the case, there were two 

3 shipments in question here? 

4 THE WITNESS: The shipment for the 

5 FedEx/Corporate Air, my understanding was, if 

6 I can go back there, would be --

7 JUDGE GOODWIN: Go to Complain8 ant's 7. 

9 THE WITNESS: The shipment 

10 there's a shipment identified by page 13 of 

11 16 --

12 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

13 THE WITNESS: -- with the 

14 JUDGE GOODWIN: So that's the one 

15 that's --

16 THE WITNESS: There's one 

17 shipment. That's one. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. 

19 THE WITNESS: And then the second 

20 shipment that was also discovered on that --

21 because that has a tracking number 8647 4191 

22 6094. And then if you go to --

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

974 

1 JUDGE GOODWIN: The other one is 

2 6503. 

3 THE WITNESS: 6503 lS the last 

4 four on the tracking number. 

5 JUDGE GOODWIN: So those are the 

6 two shipments that FedEx apparently handled; 

7 right? 

8 THE WITNESS: Correct. 

9 JUDGE GOODWIN: Forget the 

10 specifics of packaging and all that. 

11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 

12 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. Is - - in 

13 Complainant's -- same exhibit, page 1 of 16, 

14 is that the other case, or is that just a 

15 different shipment? 

16 THE WITNESS: It's a different 

17 shipment. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: But did FedEx 

19 handle 1 of 16? 

20 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 

21 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. So how 

22 many -- now, FedEx handled all three of the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

975 

1 shipments we've just talked about, 1 of 16, 13 

2 of 16, and 16 of 16? 

3 THE WITNESS: Yes. 

4 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. And did 

5 Corporate Air handle the same shipments? 

6 THE WITNESS: Yes. 

7 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. All right. 

8 Counsel. 

9 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 

10 BY MR. LOMAZOW: 

11 Q Agent Stiger, at the time of 

12 acceptance of a package marked to indicate 

13 that it contains a hazardous material, does an 

14 air carrier know at that time - - actually, let 

15 me rephrase. At the time of acceptance of a 

16 package marked to indicate it contains a 

17 hazardous material, does an air carrier know 

18 at that time whether it does or does not? 

19 A The indication would be, if it is 

20 marked on there -- there's an indication 

21 if -- if it's fully marked in accordance with 

22 the regulations, then there's an indication 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

• 22 

976 

that it is a hazardous material, as well as if 

there's partial markings or labelings. At 

that point, there's an indication that it may 

contain a hazardous material. 

Q So when an air carrier receives a 

package that's marked with a hazmat, like 

let's say identification number, UN 3373, does 

the air carrier have to assume at that point 

that it contains a hazardous material? 

A At that point, there's strong 

indicators that the material may contain a 

hazardous material, especially something 

unique as a UN 3373 marking on there. That 

raises suspicion that it may contain a 

hazardous material, yes. 

Q And in your opinion, if a hazmat 

package 1S improperly marked, 1S that also an 

indication that there might be something wrong 

with the contents of the package? 

MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Your Honor I I 

would object as it calls for speculation. I 

think the question is, if it's improperly 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

977 

1 marked on the outside, what do you think the 

2 inside has wrong with it? 

3 MR. LOMAZOW: That's asking based 

4 on his opinion, based on his experience. He's 

5 an expert. What does an improper marking 

6 indicate? Could it indicate the presence --

7 or could it indicate a problem wi th the 

8 package itself? 

9 JUDGE GOODWIN: Well, I think 

10 we've been over this now extensively. 

11 Rephrase the question and re-ask it. But we 

12 plowed this ground quite a bit the last two 

13 days. 

14 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay. I understand, 

15 Judge. I'll just withdraw it, then. 

16 Actually, no further questions for 

17 Agent Stiger. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: All right. Agent 

19 Stiger, you can step down. I'm going to 

20 instruct you that your instruction from 

21 yesterday continues. You're still under oath. 

22 You're not to discuss your testimony with 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

978 

1 anybody prior to the conclusion of all the 

2 hearings. 

3 THE WITNESS: Yes, slr. 

4 (The witness was excused.) 

5 JUDGE GOODWIN: Any additional 

6 witnesses from either side in this case? - - or 

7 in these cases? These are the 

8 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: I don't think 

9 we have any additional witnesses, Your Honor. 

10 JUDGE GOODWIN: You want to take 

11 just a couple minutes to confer? 

12 MR. LOMAZOW: Can we take a couple 

13 minutes to confer? 

14 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yeah. Let's 

15 reconvene at 25 minutes of. Let's go off the 

16 record for the moment. 

17 (Whereupon, at 9:32 a.m. off the 

18 record until 9: 44 a. m. ) 

19 JUDGE GOODWIN: Back on the 

20 record. 

21 Okay. Where are we, counsel? 

22 MR . LOMAZOW : Judge, just to 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

979 

1 and I know I've talked to Mike about this, and 

2 I've talked to Cynthia, so I certainly don't 

3 want to confuse the record. In terms of Agent 

4 Stiger's testimony, obviously, they just 

5 discussed -- counsel, myself and Agent Stiger 

6 have discussed UN 3373 ad nauseam. 

7 JUDGE GOODWIN: Right. 

8 MR. LOMAZOW: So the thought 

9 process that I had, and I discussed with 

10 Cynthia, lS that we should count Agent 

11 Stiger's testimony regarding UN 3373 for both 

12 cases, since it's going to basically be the 

13 same issue. 

14 JUDGE GOODWIN: I don't have a 

15 problem with that. 

16 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay. 

17 JUDGE GOODWIN: I'll be honest. 

18 My philosophy on these is, if counsel agree on 

19 something, unless it's an egregious violation 

20 of the rules, I'll go with it, because it's 

21 not my case, it's your case. I make the 

22 decision, but ultimately it's your case. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

980 

1 SO 1S there any further evidence 

2 or testimony in the two cases of Federal 

3 Express Corporation, DMS-2010-0977, and 

4 Corporate Air, DMS-2010-0975, which were 

5 consolidated for purposes of trial? 

6 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Nothing 

7 further, Your Honor. 

8 MR. LOMAZOW: Nothing further. 

9 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. What I'm 

10 going to ask you to do I'll do this 

11 closing, and then we'll go off the record and 

12 we can start the other case. What I'm going 

13 to ask you to do is - - Mike, what's your 

14 turnaround on the transcript? 

15 THE REPORTER: Your Honor, I'm not 

16 really sure what Neal Gross's turnaround time 

17 is. I'm supposed to have the transcripts done 

18 in two weeks from the end of the trial. 

19 JUDGE GOODWIN: Wha t' 11 happen, 

20 the transcript is prepared, sent to the FAA 

21 Headquarters on the other side of the world as 

22 far as you're concerned, counsel. It'll 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

981 

1 eventually trickle back here. What I'm gOlng 

2 to ask FAA counsel to do is, when you get the 

3 transcript, call Ms. Snell. The two of you 

4 work out a briefing schedule. I'm going to be 

5 busy quite a bit this fall. So don't feel a 

6 compulsion to get it to me, you know, the end 

7 of September, the middle of October. You work 

8 out a schedule that'll work for you. 

9 What I normally do is have the FAA 

10 brief two weeks after receipt of the 

11 transcript, two weeks to the Respondent, and 

12 then a week for rebuttal. You work out your 

13 own schedule. You want to do it four weeks, 

14 four weeks, two weeks, you want to have the 

15 first brief done the 1st of November, whatever 

16 works for you two. 

17 Then, obviously, what I want you 

18 to brief is whether I have to accept the 

19 regulation on their face, or whether I have 

20 the right to interpret the regulation. And if 

21 so, what can I take into consideration? 

22 My instinct lS that, to some 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

982 

1 extent, this is a case of first impression. 

2 So I think we should take our time, brief it 

3 properly. Whatever decision -- I'm gOlng to 

4 encourage you to brief it with the idea that 

5 it might go to the Circuit Court. Okay? I'm 

6 not going to limit you on the brief, but I 

7 want the brief well done. Remember, our cases 

8 get reviewed by either the DC Circuit or the 

9 Federal Circuit. 

10 Justice Ginsburg likes to take our 

11 cases. I've read a few of his. The guy's a 

12 fountain of knowledge. I think that's Justice 

13 Ginsburg's husband. I could be wrong. 

14 Somebody told me that. I've never taken the 

15 time to check it out. 

16 But Judge Ginsburg on the Circuit 

17 Court takes a lot of DOT stuff. That's why I 

18 want you to take your time on the briefing 

19 schedule. If one of you runs into a conflict, 

20 consult with each other. If you two mutually 

21 agree to modify the schedule, send me an 

22 order . I'll sign it. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

983 

1 Anything else ln these two cases? 

2 MR. LOMAZOW: No, Your Honor. 

3 JUDGE GOODWIN: Are you sure you 

4 don't have another question, Ms. Snell? 

5 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: I can think 

6 of a few? 

7 JUDGE GOODWIN: I'm sure you can. 

8 MS. CHANDLER - SNELL: Are we on the 

9 record? 

10 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yeah. 

11 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: I guess I 

12 would renew my motion to dismiss, which Your 

13 Honor has already indicated that you'll 

14 consider. 

15 JUDGE GOODWIN: Yeah, I'll take 

16 that under consideration. 

17 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Thank you. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: And I think for 

19 the purposes of the record, what you may want 

20 to do, if -- you two think about this. Do you 

21 want Respondent to file the motion, have the 

22 FAA respond, and address that as a preliminary 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

984 

1 issue before you brief I or do you just want to 

2 wrap it all into the brief? Your call. You 

3 two talk. Do it however you want to. 

4 Anything else in these two cases? 

5 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Nothing from 

6 uS I Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay. What I I m 

8 going to do is 11m going to go off the record l 

9 and 11m going to take the exhibits from this 

10 easel and we/re going to move them over here 

11 and get them out of the way so we can start 

12 afresh -- those exhibits that we/re not gOlng 

13 to use again. 

14 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Okay. 

15 JUDGE GOODWIN: Okay? 

16 MS. CHANDLER-SNELL: Yes I Your 

17 Honor. 

18 JUDGE GOODWIN: So we/re gOlng to 

19 go off the record for a few minutes. When we 

20 come back on the record l it/ll be a new case. 

21 (Whereupon l the above-entitled 

22 matter adjourned at 9:50 a.m.) 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
• 

• 

A - -- - - -- - -- --- -- -------

able 964:18 

above-entitled 

951:17984:21 

accept 981 : 18 

acceptance 956: 13 

956: 14959: 17 

960:7,9961:7 

975:12,15 

accepted 961 : 1 

964: 11 

account 970: 12 

action 970:9 

ad 979:6 

additional 960: 15 

960:18978:5,9 

address 983:22 

adjourned 984:22 

Administrative 

951:22 

adopt 966: 17 

afresh 984:12 

Agency's 969: 18 

970:14 

agent 954:8,18 

964:17965:5 

966:8967: 13 

971:10 972:18 

97 5: 11 977: 17,18 

979:3,5,10 

agents 966: 11 

967:1,8971:2 

agree 954: 18 955:4 

956:6959:12 

960:21 979:18 

982:21 

air 956:7957:4,9 

958:6959:1 

963:14,15965:14 

966:20 969: 14 

973:5975:5,14,17 

976:5,8 980:4 

aircraft 956:8 

Airlines 957:22 

958:14 

allegations 970:8 

allow 954:5 

allows 958:2,14 

alongside 966:22 

AMERICA 951 : 1 

ANM-7952:10 

answered 965: 17 

ant's 973:8 

anybody 978: 1 

apparent970:5,11 

970:13 

apparently 974:6 

APPEARANCES 

952:3 

applied 958: 12 

applies 965: 11 

apply 954: 19 955:1 

970:2971 :2,2 

apprise 970: 13 

approach 962: 11 

Asked 965: 17 

asking 977: 3 

assume 976:8 

audio 954:5,6 

August 951: 14 

authorized 958:9 

Avenue 952:10 

aware 970:20972: 1 

a.m 951 :19954:2 

978:17,18984:22 

B952:20 955:11,19 

961 :5,9964:21 

965:7 

back 958:3,5,10,15 

964:19973:6 

978:19981:1 

984:20 

based 955:2957: 12 

957: 17964: 13,14 

965:3 977:3,4 

basically 967:9 

979:12 

Behalf952:5,14 

believe 958:1,4,12 

962:1,3964:1,7 

968:16971:20 

beyond 959: 15 

biological 955: 11 

961:5964:21 

bit 977:12 981:5 

box 959:6,16 

break 954:4 

brief981: 1 0,15, 18 

982:2,4,6,7 984: 1 

984:2 

briefing 981:4 

982:18 

brought 971 : 18 

972:4 

Building 952:20 

busy 981:5 

CHANDLER-SN ... 

952:17954:12,17 

962:10,13 966:4,7 

972:16976:20 

978:8980:6983:5 

983:8,11,17984:5 

984:14,16 

check 959:5982: 15 

Circuit 982:5,8,9 

982:16 

circumstances 

970:7 

citations 963: 17,18 

cited 963:15 

c1arifi 965: 11 _______ C____ __ clarify 956:2 

C951:22954:1 clear 972:19 

call 967:3 981:3 closing 980: 11 

984:2 combined 967: 1 

called 959:5 come 984:20 

calls 976:21 committee 966: 16 

carrier 956:7,11,22 

957:1,9958:6,7 

959:20975:14,17 

976:5,8 

carriers 957:4,7,17 

959: 1 966:20 

case 955:4,12957:9 

965:13,15969:15 

971:17972:5,13 

973:2974:14 

978:6979:21,21 

979:22980:12 

982:1 984:10,20 

cases 960:22 

963:15964:1 

965:20 968:6 

978:7979:12 

980:2982:7,11 

983:1 984:4 

Category 955: 11 

955:19961:5,9 

964:21 965:7 

cation 965: 12 

certainly 979:2 

CFR961:10 962:15 

CFRs 961:12 

966:22 

Complain 973:7 

Complainant 952:5 

Complainant's 

954:14974:13 

compliance 957:21 

958:8,17960:14 

969:19 

compulsion 981:6 

concerned 980:22 

conclusion 978: 1 

conduct 966: 19 

967:8968:5 

conducted 956:20 

conducting 968:22 

confer 978: 11 , 13 

conflict 982: 19 

confuse 979:3 

consider 983: 14 

consideration 

970:7981:21 

983:16 

consolidated 980:5 

consult 982:20 

contain 964:5 

976:4,11,14 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 985 

contains 954:20 

963:8967:15 

975:13,16976:9 

contents 976: 19 

continues 977:21 

conversation 965:4 

conversations 

965:5 

Corporate 963: 14 

965:14,21969:14 g 

975:5980:4 

Corporation 

951:10980:3 

correct 958: 19 

959:3,11960:12 

974:8 

counsel 952:9 

954: 11 975:8 

978:21 979:5,18 

980:22 981:2 

count 979: 10 

couple 978:11,12 

couriers 957: 10 

course 967:21 

Court 962:21 

972:19982:5,17 

cover 961: 12 

CPIONMOOll 

951:8 

Cross 952: 19 

953:12,12954:16 

Cynthia 952: 17 

979:2,10 

D 

D953:8954:1 

damage 959:9 

dangerous 956: 15 

957:4,8958:21 

959:14,18961:1 

days 977:13 

DC982:8 

decision 979:22 

982:3 

declared 958:20 

definition 954:21 

955:18961:5,8,13 
961: 14 965: 7 

Department 951:3 

971 :7 

dependent 960: 1 

described 961 : 1 7 

determination 

965: 1,10 

determine 964:20 

determined 955:8 

955:9,17961:3 

965:3,20966:1 

determines 958:7 

developed 966: 16 

966:22 

different 956:3,4 

974:15,16 

DIRECT 953:12,12 

discovered 955: 17 

955:22964: 17 

965:10973:20 

discovery 969: 15 

971:22 

discuss 977:22 

• 

discussed 979:5,6,9 

dismiss 983:12 

DMS951:9 

DMS-2010-0975 

980:4 

DMS-2010-0977 

980:3 

Docket 951 : 8,9 

document 967:7,13 

971: 15 

Donald953:15 

954:14 

door 957:6 

DOT982:17 

-----,----,,---

~--,--~--"'--

E 953:8954:1,1 

effective 969: 18 

efforts 970: 10 

egregious 979: 19 

either 978:6 982:8 

em 956:9 

Empire 963: 15 

965:15,22 

• 'A' 

employees 957: 10 968:7971 :6,9,15 go 964: 19 967:21 

encompass 970:4 far 980:22 973:6,7,22978:15 

encourage 982:4 Federal 951 :9 979:20 980: 11 

enforcement 968:5 980:2982:9 982:5984:8,19 

969: 19971:3 FedEx 952: 18 goes 959:14 

especially 976: 12 957:9,22 958: 13 going 954:4 969:3 

ESQ952:7,17 963:14965:13,15 977: 19979: 12 

established 957: 17 965:21,22969: 14 980:10,12981:1,4 

evenhanded 970:6 972:7974:6,18,22 982:3,6 984:8,8,9 

eventually 981: 1 FedExiCorporate 984:10,12,18 

evidence 980: 1 973:5 good 958:21 970:10 

EXAMINATION fee1981:5 goods 956:15957:4 

954:16975:9 fied 963:9 957:8959: 14,18 

exception 960:19 field 966:9,10 961:1 

excuse 961 :22 967:7968:8,15 GOODWIN 

excused 978:4 file 983:21 951:22954:3 

exhibit 971 : 11 final 970:9 962:12965:18 

972:2974: 13 finally 955:8965:3 968:13 972:18,22 

exhibits 953:19 first 971:19 981:15 973:7,12,14,18 

984:9,12 982:1 974: 1 ,5,9,12,18 

experience 962:2 Floor 952:20 974:21 975:4,7 

977:4 folks 971 :21 977:9,18978:5,10 

expert 972:4977:5 follow-up 972:21 978:14,19979:7 

Express 951:9 force 970:3 979: 14,17980:9 

952:18957:9,22 Forget 974:9 980:19983:3,7,10 

958: 13 980:3 found 961:4 983:15,18984:7 

extensively 977: 10 fountain 982: 12 984:15,18 

extent 982: 1 four 974:4 981:13 gotten 965:9 

--------. - 981 :14 granted 958:12 

-,----". F --- front 957:6 Gross's 980: 16 

FAA 951:8 952:9 full 970:2 ground 977:12 

966:11969:10 fully 975:21 guess 983:11 

972:7 980:20 further 951 : 18 guidance 967:7,10 

981 :2,9 983 :22 972:16977:16 967:13 

F AA-2010-0977 980:1,7,8 guideline 968:4 

951: 10 --,,-~-------~ guy's 982: 11 

face981:19 G -~--,,------"-- - -------- ----

facts 969:2973:2 g954:1969:16 H --------------"--

failure 964:8 gathering 969: 1 Hacks 952: 19 

fair 969:20,21 general 956:6, 10 handle 974: 19 

fairness 968:9,20 963:17,17,18 975:5 

969:17 generally 969:5 handled 974:6,22 

faith 970: 10 970:16 handling 961 : 1 0 

fall 981 :5 Ginsburg 982: 10 happen 980: 19 

familiar 961 :21 982:16 hazardous 954:22 

963:13 966:9 Ginsburg's 982: 13 957:2,11 958:8 

967:17,19968:1,2 given 970:6972: 12 960: 17961: 13,14 

" ,-

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 986 

961:17963:5,7,9 

964:4,5 965:2 

975:13,17976:1,4 

976:9,12,15 

hazmat 976:6,16 

Headquarters 

980:21 

heard 955:3 

hearing 951 :6,18 

971: 19 

hearings 951:4 

978:2 

help 967:20,21 

971: 19 

helped 966: 15 

helping 967:8 , 

hind 964:18 

hindsight 964: 18 

HMRs954:22 

958:17 

Hold 972:22 

honest 979: 17 

Honor 954: 13 

962:11 965:17 

966:4968:12 

972: 17,20 976:20 

978:9980:7,15 

983:2,13 984:6,17 

HONORABLE 

951 :22 

husband 982: 13 , ~--,,--~ -- , I -------~-----

idea 982:4 , 

identi 963:8 

identification 

963:4964:4976:7 

identified 973: 10 

imply 970:1 

impression 982: 1 

improper 977:5 

improperly 955:14 

976:17,22 

indicate 975:12,16 

977:6,6,7 

indicated 983: 13 

indicating 963:6 
• 

indication 975: 19 

975:20,22 976:3 

976:18 

indications 959: 10 

964: 12 

indicators 957: 14 

976: 11 

infectious 955: 19 

961:9965:7 

inside 961:4 977:2 

inspect 959:2 964:8 

inspection 956:6,10 

956:17,17,20 

957:13,15,16 

959:13 960:5,6,8 

960:12,15966:14 

966:18967:2,6,15 

968:1 

inspections 956:5 

966: 19967:8 

968:22 

instinct 981 :22 

instruct 977:20 

instruction 977:20 

integrity 959:9 

interpret 981 :20 

interrogatories 

969:15 

investiga 968:22 

investigation 955:7 

955:16964:16 

966:15,21 967:2 

968:3 

investigations 

967:9,20,22968:5 

investigative 971:4 

involves 959:4,17 

involving 965: 13 

965:15 

issue 979: 13 984: 1 

issues 971:8 

item 956:22 

items 961:16 

it'll 980:22 984:20 

IV951:11 

Judge 951:22 954:3 

962:12965:18 

968:13 972:18,22 

973:7,12,14,18 

974:1,5,9,12,18 

974:21 975:4,7 

977:9,15,18978:5 

978:10,14,19,22 

979:7,14,17980:9 

980:19982:16 

983:3,7,10,15,18 

984:7,15,18 

Justice 982: 10,12 

K 

kind 959:13 

know 961:20 

968: 15,17, 19,20 

970:22 971: 1,8 

972:6975:14,17 

979:1 981:6 

knowledge 982: 12 

KYLE 952:7 

L 

labeled 956: 19 

961: 16 

labeling 956: 18 

labelings 959: 17 

976:2 

Law951:22 

lays 967:9 

leakage 959:8 

legal 971:6,7 

letter 972:2,6 

let's 976:7 978: 14 

978:15 

likes 982:10 

limit 982:6 

Lind 952:10 

loads 956:8 

LOMAZOW 952:7 

965:16968:11 

972:20975:10 

977:3,14978:12 

978:22979:8,16 

980:8983:2 

Long972:15 

look 957: 19962:3 

963:19964:19 

967:12971:11 

looked 967:11,12 

looking 959:4,6,15 

959:16962:15 

968:15969:8 

lot967:15982:17 

Luscher 964: 17 

965:5 

majority 961 :22 

making 959:8,18 

management 

966: 17967: 1 

971:5 

manner 970: 15 

manual 957:12 

966:9,10,15,21 

967:3,6,20,22 

968:2,3,8,15 

969:8971:12 

manuals 967: 18 

marked 953:19 

955:16956:19 

961:16963:3 

971:11,16972:2 

975: 12,16,20,21 

976:6,17977:1 

marking 962: 1,19 

963:6964:14 

976:13977:5 

markings 956: 17 

957:14959:16 

976:2 

material 954:20,22 

955:6,13,18,20 

956:10957:2,11 

957:20958:3,8,10 

958:15959:19 

960:1,17961:4,12 

961:15,17963:5,7 

963:9964:4,6,9 

964:10,11,13,14 

964:19966:1 

971:21975:13,17 

976:1,4,9,11,12 

976:15 

materials 955:3,8 

965:2 

material's 956:21 

958:7 

matter 951 :8,17 

984:22 

mean 959:20 

971: 12 

meet 955: 10,10,18 

961:4,8,14965:7 

Memphis 952:21 

middle 981:7 

Mike 979: 1 980: 13 

miles 958:4 

minutes 978: 11 ,13 

978:15984:19 

modify 982:21 

moment 966:5 

978:16 

motion 983:12,21 

move984:10 

mutually 982:20 

N 

N 953:8954:1 

name 963:4 966: 13 

named 957:10 

national 966:14 

967:2968:4 

nature 968:21 

nauseam 979:6 

Nea1980:16 

near971:13 

need 962:6 

never971:18972:3 

982:14 

new 967: 13 984:20 

NI2M967:3 

normally 981:9 

notebook 971 : 12 

November 981: 15 

number 963:5 

964:4973:21 

974:4 976:7 

Page 987 

0954:1 

oath 954:10 977:21 

object 976:21 

Objection 965:16 

968: 11 

objective 968: 18,21 

970:6 

obviously 979:4 

981: 17 

occurred 964:2 

October 981:7 

offer 963:1 

offered 956:21 

960:2964:10 

Office 951:4 952:9 

offload 960:12,15 

Oh966:12 

Okay 955:2956:2 

956:15961:7 

962:7,16,20 

963:11 966:8 

969:3,6,11 970:20 

971 :10972:9 

973:12,18974:12 

974:21 975:4,7 

977:14978:21 

979:16980:9 

982:5984:7,14,15 

once 971:7 

opinion 976:16 

977:4 

order 967:6969:10 

970: 17 982:22 

origin 958:4,16 

outside 977: 1 

Overruled 965:18 

968:13 

~--~p---

P 954:1 

package 958: 18 

959: 10 960: 13 

963:2,8975:12,16 

976:6,17,19977:8 

packages 956:7,7 

957:5 960: 17 

packaging 974: 1 0 

.~ ______ V" __ ~.----------------~ Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 
Page 988 

page 969:16 973:10 982:3 969:7978:16,18 requires 970: 10 973:17,20974:15 

974:13 provided 955:3 978:20 979:3 residue 963: 1 0 974: 17 

Part 964:7 969:8,13 980:11 983:9,19 respond 983 :22 shipments 955:5,9 

partial 976:2 provides 967: 1 0, 1 0 984:8,19,20 Respondent 952: 14 955:13956:16 

participate 972: 11 968:4 REDIRECT 975:9 981:11 983:21 959: 14 960: 10,22 

particular 955:4 provision 961 :20 refer 956: 12 response 969:9,14 964:2965: 13,14 

party 958:6 968:8,16969:16 reference 962:14 results 955:7 965:21 973:3 

pause 962:9963: 12 provisions 958: 11 referenced 970: 18 RESUMED 954: 16 974:6975:1,5 

963:21 966:3,6 961:15963:14 references 968:20 return 954:9 shipped 960: 19 

972:10,15 970:21 971:1 referencing 960:6 review 973: 1 shipper 956: 11 

perceived 969:21 purposes 980:5 refresh 962:4 reviewed 971 :20 958:5 959:20 

permit 958: 1 983:19 regarding 955:5,12 982:8 965:6 

permits 958: 11 pursuant 951: 18 968:8 970:21 re-ask 977: 11 shippers 961 :2 

person 963: 1 put 961: 19 972:7 979: 11 RICHARD 951 :22 966:20 

philosophy 979: 18 --~'''--~ regards 957:7 right 954:20 shipping 963:4 

pick 957:11 --... ~ 966:18967:19 956:13,19957:6 side 978:6 980:21 

picked 956:21 question 955:9 968:21 971:3 960:3,7970:5 sides 959: 15 

picking 957:5 965:6973:3 Regional 952:9 974:7975:7 sign 982:22 

picks 956:9957: 1 976:22977: 11 regular 958: 18 977:18979:7 sir 974:20978:3 

please 962:21 983:4 regulated 954:20 981 :20 six 959:15 

plowed 977:12 questions 972: 17 955:6,13,20 road 952:19958:3 six-side 959:5 

point 965:9976:3,8 972:21 977:16 956:22 958:6 rules 979:20 Snell 981 :3 983:4 

976:10 quite 977:12 981:5 964:13,21 966:2 runs 982:19 Somebody 982:14 

• 

portation 963:2 --.-~---- regulation 969:22 R4971:11,16972:2 someone's 957:5 

R position 970:12,14 ~,,--~---- 981 :19,20 sorry 966: 10 

possible 968: 18 R954:1 regulations 958:9 S 969:13 

preliminary 957:12 raises 976: 14 962:4975:22 S 954:1 sound 970: 16 

957:13,15983:22 read 962:20969:3 relation 960:21 sanction 972: 12 speciaI958:1,11,11 

preparation 959:21 982: 11 relevancy 968: 12 sanctions 970:3 961:10 

971:3 really 956: 16 Remember 954:3 scenarios 967: 10 specialist 957:8,19 

prepare 968:5 980:16 982:7 schedule 981 :4,8 specialists 957:5 

prepared 980:20 reason 957:20 remind 954:9 981:13 982:19,21 specific 968:19 

presence 977:6 reasonable 969:20 renew 983: 12 seated 954:7 specifically 957: 18 

PREVIOUSLY rebuttal 981 : 12 Renton 952: 11 second 956: 16 specifics 974: 10 

954:15 receipt 981 : 10 rephrase 975: 15 962:5973:19 speculation 976:21 

prior 978:1 received 953:19 977:11 secondary 957: 16 spot 961 :20 

problem 959:9 971:7 report 971:4 section 968: 19 stack 971 : 13 

977:7979:15 receives 976:5 REPORTER see 962:6 964: 19 stand 954:9 

procedures 957:17 recess 951: 18 980:15 969:4 start 980: 12 984: 11 

966:18967:16 recognize 969:4 require 956: 16 seen 958:13 971:18 STATES 951:1 

process 959: 17 recognized 958: 16 961 :10 972:3 station 958:5,16 

971:22979:9 recollection 970: 17 required 959:1,13 send 982:21 statutory 970:3 

program 969: 19 recommendations 960:15,16 sent 972:2,7 980:20 step 977:19 

prohibited 962: 1 972:12 requirement September 981:7 Stiger 953:15 954:8 

962:18 recommended 955:10960:18 shipment 954: 19 954:14,18966:8 

proper 963:3 966:17 requirements 957:20 960: 18 971:10972:18 

properly 956:18 reconvene 978: 15 963:18 965:22973:4,9,10 975:11977:17,19 

record 965: 12 

• Neal R. Gross & Co. I Inc. 

202-234-4433 
• 

• 

• 

979:5 

Stiger's 979:4,11 

strong 976: 10 

stuff 982: 17 

subject 969:22 

submission 971 :4,5 

submitted 971 :21 

subsequent 955: 16 

964:16965:4,5 

966:21 

substance 955: 11 

955:19961:6,9 

964:22 965:8 

supposed 980: 17 

sure 956:18959:8 

959:18980:16 

983:3,7 

surrounding 970:8 

suspicion 976: 14 

suspicious 959: 10 

959:16 

SW952:10 

SWORN 954: 15 

system 954:5,6 

take 954:4963:19 

970:12978:10,12 

981 :21 982:2,10 

982:18983:15 

984:9 

taken 970:9982: 14 

takes 982:17 

talk 984:3 

talked 956:5 975: 1 

979: 1,2 

talks 968: 1 7 

teach 967:21 

technical 972:4 

techniques 966: 19 

967:15 

tendered 955: 15 

956: 11 

Tennessee 952:21 

terms 979:3 

testimony 955:2 

960:4,5,11 963:22 

977:22979:4,11 

980:2 

Thank 954: 12 

983:17 

think 959:5 960:4 

962:14,17976:22 

977:1,9978:8 

982:2,12983:5,18 

983:20 

thought 979:8 

three 956:4 974:22 

Thursday 951 : 13 

time955:15956:21 

957:19961:22 

964:9,10,11,14 

968:2971:19 

975:11,14,15,18 

980:16982:2,15 

982:18 

timeliness 970:21 

971:1,6,8 

timely 970: 15 

times 960:3 

tions 969:1 

told982:14 

tracking 973:21 

974:4 

trained 957:18 

967:14 

trans 963:1 

transcript 980: 14 

980:20981 :3,11 

transcripts 980: 17 

transport 958:2,10 

958: 15 959:21 

963:2 

transportation 

951:3957:1 960:2 

two 955:9 956:3 

965:12,21 973:2 

974:6977:12 

980:2,18981 :3,10 

981: 11,14,16 

982:20983: 1 ,20 

984:3,4 

type 959:19 

types 956:3,4 

______ U ___ _ 

ultimately 955:22 

961:3 965 :20 

966: 1 979:22 

UN 955:5,13 960:6 

960: 10,22 964:2 

965:12,14972:7 

976:7,13 979:6,11 

understand 957:3 

970:11 977:14 

understanding 

960:16963:16 

965:4973:5 

unique 976:13 

UNITED 951: 1 

unwillingness 

970:2 

UPS 957:22958: 14 

use 984:13 

utilized 958: 13 

967:7 

violation 979: 19 

violations 964: 1 

violator 970:5,14 

violator's 970: 11 

VOLUME951:11 

transported 955:14 ------W----

955:21 960:19 w~~-t-95-4:8-95-6-:2--

964:3,12,15965:2 961:19978:10 

transporting 961:16 979:3981:13,14 

trial 980:5,18 981 :17982:7,18 

trickle 981:1 983:19,21984:1,3 

turnaround 980:14 warranted 970:4 

980:16 Washington 

952:11 

wasn't 964: 15 

way 972: 11 984: 11 

week981:12 

weeks 980: 18 

981 :10,11,13,14 

981: 14 

went971:17 

we'll 962:6,14 

980: 11 

we're 954:3 984: 10 

984:12,18 

we've 960:4 975:1 

977:10 

wholly 960: 1 

withdraw 977: 15 

witness 954: 14 

965:19968:14 

973:4,9,13,16,19 

974:3,8,11,16,20 

975:3,6 978:3,4 

witnesses 953: 12 

978:6,9 

words 958:6 969: 1 

work 981 :4,7,8,12 

worked 954:5 

works 981: 16 

world 980:21 

wrap 984:2 

write 967:20 

wrong976:18 

977:2 982: 13 

wrote 966: 16 

x -------... ~---

X953:8 

-----y 

Yeah969:12 

978:14983:10,15 

yesterday 977:21 

____ 1 __ 

1974:13,19975:1 

Ist981:15 

11:30954:4 

11:45954:4 

13 973: 10975: 1 

14680958:2 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 989 

150958:4 I 

16973:11974:13 

974:19975:1,2,2 

975:2 

1601952:10 

172(k) 962:3 

172.301962: 1 

172.303962:15,18 

173961 :22 

173.199954: 19 

960:14,20 

175.3963:19 

2-3969:16 

20/20964: 18 

2011951:14 

21967:5 

2150967:4,6969:8 ' 

970:17,21 

227-1847952:12 

25951:14978:15 

3 --------_._----

3rd 952:20 

303962:16 

3373955:5,13 

960:6,10,22964:2 

965:12,14972:7 

976:7,13 979:6,11 

3620952:19 

38125952:21 

-------~----

___ -'4 ______ _ 

4191973:21 

425952:12 

434-8361 952:22 

49962:15 

6 

6094973:22 

6503974:2,3 

____ 7 __ _ 

7973:8 

---------------

8 --------=-----

8647973:21 
• 

• 

__ 9 ____ _ 

9:02951: 18 954:2 

9:32978:17 

9:44978:18 

9:50984:22 

901952:22 

954953:15 

975953:15 

98057952: 11 

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 

202-234-4433 

Page 990 
• 

• 

991 

C E R T I F I CAT E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Federal Express 

Before: US DOT 

Date: 08-25-11 

Place: Seattle, Washington 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

(202) 234-4433 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.w. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com