UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, 

INC. 

Respondent 

Tuesday, 

FDMS No. 

FAA-2013-0848 

March 18, 2014 

The conference call took place via 

telephone, pursuant to notice, at 11:00 a.m. 

BEFORE: 

THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, 

Administrative Law Judge 

RECEIVED 

APR - 2 2014 

HEARING DOCKET 

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APPEARANCES: 

On Behalf of the Complainant: 

ZACHARY M. BERMAN, ESQ. 

of: Office of the Regional Counsel 

Eastern Region 

Federal Aviation Administration 

1 Aviation Plaza 

Jamaica, New York 11434 

(718) 553-3258 

(718) 995-5699 (fax) 

On Behalf of the Respondent: 

WILLIAM J. DOBITSCH, JR. 

of: Endless Mountains Air, Inc. 

Seamans Airport 

727 Windsock Lane 

Factoryville, PA 18419 

(570) 945-5939 (fax) 

Also Present: 

CODY L. SMITH, DOT Staff Attorney 

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1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 

2 11:05 a.m. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, we're on 

4 the record in the matter of Endless Mountain 

5 Air, Inc. This is docket number FAA-2013-

6 0848. 

7 Today is Tuesday, March 18, 2014. 

8 And the parties have convened for a Rule 16 

9 litigation scheduling conference. 

10 The Federal Aviation 

11 Administration which I'll hereinafter refer to 

12 by its initials, the FAA, is represented by 

13 Zachary M. Berman, the attorney of record. 

14 The Respondent Endless Mounts Air, 

15 Inc. Is represented by Mr. William J. 

16 Dobi tsch, Jr. Mr. Dobi tsch are you an 

17 attorney, are you an owner of the company? 

18 Can you give me a little bit better idea of 

19 who you are in relationship to the named 

20 litigant. 

21 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes Your Honor. I 

22 am the owner of the company. Unfortunately, 

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1 I cannot afford an attorney at this time. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 

3 So you are the owner and lay representative, 

4 thank you. 

5 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, all parties 

7 are present by telephone today. In essence 

s for the general history of the case, this 

9 matter -- complaint was filed on or about 

10 December 17, 2013. 

11 The matter was referred to the 

12 Office of Hearings, where an assigned of this 

13 case was issued to me on December 26, 2013. 

14 On January 28, 2014, I issued an order setting 

15 the Rule 16 litigation scheduling conference 

16 for today's date and time. 

17 It appears that on January 3 0, 

18 2014 the FAA filed a Motion for Decision. And 

19 then the parties jointed filed on March 11, 

20 2014 a joint proposed procedural schedule. 

21 What I'm going to do is I'll 

22 address my questions first to Mr. Berman who 

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1 is the prosecuting attorney. And then I will 

2 look to Mr. Dobi tsch second for any responses 

3 or additional comments. 

4 And you'll see me doing that 

5 throughout the litigation proceeding. I 

6 generally always go to the prosecuting agent 

7 first and then to the Respondent second. 

8 It's not in any way showing 

9 particular bias. It simply is the legal 

10 procedure that one typically uses that 

11 everybody knows when it's their time to speak. 

12 So Mr. Berman, let's start with 

13 you. And let me ask you a couple questions 

14 about the January 30, 2014 Motion for 

15 Decision. 

16 This particular motion asserts 

17 that no answer was filed in a timely fashion 

18 to the complaint. And my question to you is 

19 did you receive an answer filing this motion? 

20 MR. BERMAN: No, I did not. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Has there 

22 been any kind of agreement by the parties 

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1 regarding this motion or is it still pending 

2 in its entirety? 

3 MR. BERMAN: Still pending as far 

4 as I know. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then Mr. 

6 Dobitsch, let me turn to you next. This 

7 particular motion, which was filed by the FAA 

8 asserts, that you and your company have not 

9 filed a formal answer since the complaint was 

10 filed. Did you have a chance to read this 

11 motion? 

12 MR. DOBITSCH: I actually -- Mr. 

13 Berman, I spoke to him earlier last week just 

14 to confirm that he had gotten my signed 

15 proposed procedural schedule, brought this to 

16 my attention. He asked me if I'd seen it and 

17 I did not see it. He was kind enough to send 

18 me an email with it. 

19 And I did search through my 

20 records and the package, I think it was a 

21 FedEx package, was signed for a friend over 

22 here for my business and unfortunately I never 

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1 did see it. So I am aware of this now. But 

2 I was not aware of this earlier. I think it 

3 had been last Tuesday or Wednesday. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You need 

5 to respond to it in writing. And the reason 

6 I say that is because the FAA is asking in 

7 this motion for me to find based on your 

8 silence, that all of the violations are 

9 admitted. And that the only thing left for 

10 hearing is the issue of a proposed civil 

11 penalty. 

12 So I think what we need to do 

13 first and foremost, is set up a time for you 

14 to file a Response to this motion. And then 

15 reset the litigation scheduling conference 

16 after that. 

17 You may, as a representative for 

18 your company, believe that all violations 

19 should be litigated. Or you may believe that 

20 some of them they should be litigated. Or you 

21 may believe that none of them need to be 

22 litigated. 

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1 But in this particular motion that 

2 the FAA filed, there asserting that none of 

3 them should be litigated because you failed to 

4 respond in a timely way. 

5 So what you need to do is number 

6 one, respond to the motion and explain just 

7 like you did very briefly today, why you did 

8 not respond promptly. Because what you want 

9 to demonstrate if you can, is whether there 

10 was a good reason for your failure to not 

11 respond. 

12 MR. DOBITSCH: Right. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If I find that 

14 there is a that you have shown a good 

15 reason for not responding in a timely way, 

16 then I can rule for you and against the FAA. 

17 If I find that there isn't a good 

18 reason for your failure to respond timely, 

19 then I would likely rule for the FAA and 

20 against you. It just depends on what you say 

21 in your response. 

22 In any event, in filing a response 

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1 to this, it forces you to look at what the 

2 violations are and whether or not you are 

3 challenging the actual violations or whether 

4 you are challenging this proposed penalty. Or 

5 a combination of the two. And you might want 

6 to address that a little bit in your response. 

7 As part of your response, what 

8 most people do is they also file an answer. 

9 But that's up to you to decide whether or not 

10 you're going to do that contemporaneously. 

11 If I grant the motion on your 

12 behalf, I'll direct you to file an answer if 

13 you haven't already. If I deny the motion, 

14 and grant it on the FAA's behalf, I'll simply 

15 direct you to file an answer for the civil 

16 penalty provisions as opposed to the 

17 violations. 

18 Does that make sense so far? 

19 MR. DOBITSCH: Essentially, Your 

20 Honor. I think I need to file a response now 

21 to you why -- to let you know why I did not 

22 respond to this Motion for Decision. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. If you 

2 read the Motion to Dismiss, do you have it in 

3 front of you by any chance? 

4 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes I do. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. If you 

6 read the Motion to Dismiss, you'll see that 

7 the FAA is asserting that it served you on 

s December 17, 2013 with its complaint. 

9 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that the 

11 complaint was received by you no later than 

12 December 19, 2013. This is all on page one on 

13 the Motion. 

14 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then as you 

16 go to page two of the motion, it says in 

17 paragraph seven that you had a deadline of 

18 January 21, 2014 to file an answer or a motion 

19 to the complaint. And you did neither. 

20 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Under the Rules 

22 of Practice in this agency, this is the United 

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1 States Department of Transportation, and the 

2 FAA is the prosecuting agent. 

3 Under the Rules of Practice and 

4 FAA proceedings, if a responding party fails 

5 to answer or reply in any way within the 

6 period required, the FAA has the ability to 

7 bring a motion like this one to dismiss, which 

8 they've done. 

9 And then as you see on page two 

10 running into page three and page four, the FAA 

11 is saying that you haven't demonstrated a good 

12 cause reason for failing to answer by January 

13 21, 2014. 

14 As a result, the FAA wants me to 

15 find that all of the allegations regarding the 

16 violation that are contained in its complaint, 

17 should be deemed true and uncontested. 

18 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then you see 

20 at the very last page, I'm sorry, the last two 

21 pages, pages four and five, that the FAA wants 

22 to have a civil penalty imposed in the amount 

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1 of $46,200 or, in the alternative, to limit 

2 the hearing to only the issue of whether that 

3 amount of money is appropriate. 

4 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you want 

6 you want to respond to this motion, because if 

7 you don't 

8 MR. DOBITSCH: Absolutely. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: it's 

10 uncontested. So there are, as I understand it 

11 from the complaint, and we'll check in with 

12 Mr. Berman about this, there looks to be two 

13 violations that are asserted, maybe more. It 

14 could be as many as five or more. But we'll 

15 chat with him about that in a moment. 

16 And there is obviously a request 

17 by the FAA for a substantial amount of money 

18 to be imposed as a fine against your company. 

19 So if you go back to this page two 

20 of the motion, in paragraph nine, there's an 

21 assertion that says, quote, Respondent has not 

22 demonstrated good cause for its failure to 

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1 file an answer, end quote. When you respond 

2 to this Motion, part of your response might be 

3 stating whether you had a good reason or 

4 number of reasons for not responding on or 

5 before Januar~ 21, 2014. 

6 And I know you said a few things 

7 to us today, and you'd probably want to repeat 

8 those things in your motion in writing. 

9 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then you can 

11 identify in your response to this motion, if 

12 you are challenging all of the violations, 

13 some of the violations or none of the 

14 violations. 

15 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So that I have a 

17 better idea of where you want to spend your 

18 time. 

19 And that's your decision, it's 

20 none of my business what you choose to do. 

21 But you should at least let me know what you 

22 want. 

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1 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, so 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So what I'm going 

3 to suggest is I'm going to set a due date for 

4 you to file a written response to this motion. 

5 And then we will reset the Rule 16 

6 conference after that deadline. 

7 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So that I have 

9 time to receive your motion. I will give Mr. 

10 Berman a chance to reply to your motion. And 

11 then I will rule on the motion before we meet 

12 again. And it may be that I strike the 

13 conference and say there's no basis for meet 

14 again at all based on what I received. 

15 But that's speculative right now. 

16 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'd rather set a 

18 new conference so that we have it on the 

19 calendar just in case. 

20 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

22 MR. DOBITSCH: So Judge-- oh, I'm 

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1 sorry --

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me turn to 

3 Mr. Berman for a moment. Mr. Berman in 

4 looking at your complaint, it's unclear to me 

5 how many violations your alleging. Can you 

6 help us out with that. 

7 MR. BERMAN: Our position would be 

8 that the violation -- there was essentially 

9 one violation for six different flights, so 

10 that there were six flights. There were 

11 well, actually, excuse me, there were two 

12 violations per flight. There was the failure 

13 to pass the 190 -- the pilot not having passed 

14 the 135.293 check and the 135.299(a) check. 

15 There were two violations and for 

16 each of six flights, that would be 12 

17 violations. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So would 

19 it be -- okay, so you want to count those each 

20 as a violation as opposed to counts within the 

21 violation? 

22 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So you're 

2 saying that there's a total of 12 violations? 

3 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And six of the 

5 violations are under subsection (a), which is 

6 found on page two of the complaint under 

7 paragraph three. And six of the violations 

8 are found under subsection (b) as in boy, on 

9 page three in the middle of the page. Is that 

10 right? 

11 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And then 

13 in terms of your complaint, you don't have the 

14 specific dates of each flight, but they appear 

15 to be between the period of September 23, 2011 

16 through the date of October 9, 2011. 

17 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. All right. 

19 Now in terms of the $46,200, do you have any 

20 idea at this time how that money is 

21 arranged is not the correct word, but divided 

22 between these violations? 

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1 MR. BERMAN: I believe we came up 

2 with a number per flight, and divided it 

3 equally. And each flight was assigned an 

4 equal number. So the -- I mean I could just 

5 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well if we 

7 divided the number of $46,200 by 12, or 

s that would equal, excuse me, about $3,850 

9 assessed for each flight. Is that 

10 MR. BERMAN: Well it's actually 

11 the six $46,200 from the 740 -- $7,700 per 

12 flight. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

14 MR. BERMAN: And yes. The number 

15 you can up with is per regulation, per flight. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. 

17 MR. BERMAN: The 38 --

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're telling me 

19 that there 12 violations. 

20 MR. BERMAN: Right, right, right. 

21 So it's-- right, so each one would be-- each 

22 of the 12 violations would be half of $7,700, 

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1 which would be the number you came up with, 

2 which was I believe, the $3,850. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. That's 

4 helpful, thank you. 

5 Okay, Mr. Dobitsch, so essentially 

6 you have you're looking at in this 

7 complaint-, a total of 12 violations based on 

8 the two regulations that are cited in the 

9 complaint on pages two and three. And you're 

10 looking at a total penalty of $46,200, which 

11 is divided between the 12 violations fairly 

12 equitably. So that each violation carries a 

13 proposed civil penalty of $3,850. 

14 When do you think you can 

15 reasonably file a written response to the 

16 Motion for Decision at this point? 

17 MR. DOBITSCH: Can I have a few --

18 four weeks, a few weeks? 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well two weeks 

2 o would probably be ample. Because it's been a 

21 long time. 

22 MR. DOBITSCH: Would that --

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So let's take a 

2 look at my calendar and your calendar and Mr. 

3 Berman's calendar. And so today is March 18. 

4 Mr. Berman, I'm going to suggest some dates 

5 and I want you to look at your calendar. 

6 If we set the response to the 

7 Motion for Decision to be due on or before 

8 April 4, which is a Friday, what date after 

9 that would filing a reply be reasonable for 

10 you? 

11 MR. BERMAN: I would-- normally I 

12 would ask for a week, but I'm taking a few 

13 days off for the holiday. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

15 MR. BERMAN: Passover, so I would 

16 ask for two weeks. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and which 

18 day are you looking at for filing a replay? 

19 You can just tell me. 

20 MR. BERMAN: The one -- it would 

21 be due on what, April 4h? 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If the response 

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1 is due April 4, 2014, what 

2 MR. BERMAN: I would ask until 

3 April 18th. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay, Mr. 

5 Dobitsch does that sound reasonable to you? 

6 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 

8 talk about resetting the remainder of the 

9 litigation schedule to a point after that. 

10 And I have a trial that's going to last a full 

11 week immediately thereafter, so let me look at 

12 my time. 

13 Why don't we set this Mr. 

14 Berman do you have time available on either 

15 May 12, or May 13 for a second Rule 16 

16 conference? 

17 MR. BERMAN: Yes, my schedule 

18 my calendar is open for both days. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. 

20 Dobitsch, how about you? Does either date 

21 work for you? 

22 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, either date 

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1 would work for me. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't 

3 we plan then for Tuesday, May 13, 2014 and I 

4 have a 1:00 o'clock time open. And so we'll 

5 set that for 1:00 to 2:00p.m. That will give 

6 me enough time, with my trial calendar, to 

7 receive the response, the reply, read it, 

s write a decision and get it out to both of you 

9 before Tuesday, May 13, 2014. 

10 Now a couple of housekeeping 

11 matters. Mr. Berman, starting with you. 

12 One of your staff keeps putting 

13 the Federal Aviation Administration in the 

14 jurisdictional caption of your materials. And 

15 that is incorrect. 

16 If you look at, for example, the 

17 Joint Proposed Procedural Schedule that was 

18 filed most recently, on March 11, 2014. It 

19 shows the Federal Aviation Administration as 

20 part of the jurisdictional caption. 

21 MR. BERMAN: Yes, I apologize for 

22 that. I had sent out an email to my office 

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1 asking that not be done. But I will send out 

2 an e-mail and I will talk to management in my 

3 office and go over it. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please do. And I 

5 will go ahead -- you're not the only person in 

6 the Eastern Division who's been doing this. 

7 And so I'm going to add that to orders that I 

8 issue. 

9 It is very misleading to the 

10 litigants who are here before me to think that 

11 I am working as part of an FAA administration. 

12 I don't. 

13 This office is the Office of the 

14 Secretary as you know. The Federal Aviation 

15 Administration is not a -- is not my employer. 

16 So the FAA heading should be 

17 removed from the jurisdictional caption. 

18 MR. BERMAN: Absolutely. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I know that 

20 it's used internally for your other 

21 administrative things, and I suspect that it's 

22 simply a carryover from that. But I want to 

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1 make sure that the headings are correctly 

2 listing my department as the Office of 

3 Hearings in Washington, D.C. 

4 And Mr. Dobitsch, you'll want to 

5 do that as well. If you'll -- you'll get a 

6 hearing notice from this office and you' 11 see 

7 that it says u.s. Department of 

8 Transportation, Office of Hearings, 

9 Washington, D.C. And that is the proper 

10 heading for this office. 

11 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, so I'll --

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch let 

13 me turn to you next on service. We have 

14 certain rules regarding service. And if you 

15 look at the Joint Procedural Schedule on the 

16 very last page, you'll see a Certificate of 

17 Service that one of Mr. Berman's legal 

18 assistants filled out. 

19 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. If you 

21 look at the Rule 16 Order that I sent out 

22 earlier this year, you'll also see that the 

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1 last page has a service list. 

2 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Whenever you file 

4 your response to the Motion for Decision, you 

5 need to have a service list like these 

6 attached as the last page to your response. 

7 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And not only 

9 should it be attached, it's basically a 

10 statement by you that you have sent a copy of 

11 your response to each individual or entity 

12 listed on the service list. So you keep a 

13 copy for yourself, you send one to the Federal 

14 Aviation Administrations Hearing Docket 

15 because they keep the public electronic copy 

16 of all materials that are filed in this case. 

17 You send one to Mr. Berman. And 

18 then you send one to me. 

19 MR. DOBITSCH: Right. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Now just so that 

21 you know, since 2001, there has been a radical 

22 change in how government offices receive 

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1 United States mail, as you are probably no 

2 doubt aware. All mail now becomes -- now goes 

3 through an irradiation process. So it can 

4 delay the receipt of this mail sometimes up to 

5 three weeks. 

6 So the practice now is that you 

7 mail a copy to me and you fax a copy to my 

8 office. 

9 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Typically you 

11 want to fax a copy to your friend across the 

12 aisle, Mr. Berman, as well because he's in a 

13 government office and they have the same types 

14 of irradiation requirements that my office 

15 does. 

16 If the two of you reach an 

17 agreement that you want to email each other, 

18 that's fine. That's none of my business. But 

19 for purposes of proving service, you want to 

20 mail a copy and the mailing date has to be 

21 before the deadline. 

22 And you definitely want to fax a 

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1 copy on or before the deadline given. 

2 Because the deadline I give you is 

3 the deadline I want to have it in my hand. 

4 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That's the only 

6 way I'm going to know that you have served it. 

7 Because I won't -- I can't rely on the U.S. 

8 mail for my deadline compliance review. 

9 Sometimes I don't get it for weeks. 

10 So you need to be sure to have 

11 your materials properly served. And you can 

12 use either Mr. Berman's service example. And 

13 you make sure that Mr. Berman' s name and 

14 address is added to that. Or you can use the 

15 Court's service example. I think mine has 

16 everybody's name, so it might be a little 

17 easier, but it's up to you. 

18 And then my order, there is an 

19 attorney who works on my cases with me. And 

20 he is available to answer questions that are 

21 procedural in nature by anyone. And his name 

22 is Mr. Smith. And I will put in my order his 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
27 

1 phone number in case you need to reach him. 

2 Mr. Berman has had a chance to 

3 utilize his services. And Mr. Berman I've not 

4 asked you this before, but have you had any --

5 have you had a good experience so far with Mr. 

6 Smith? 

7 MR. BERMAN: Oh yes. He's always 

8 very prompt and always he's always very 

9 helpful. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay good. So 

11 Mr. Smith is available for procedural matters. 

12 He cannot give legal advice. He can't help 

13 advocate for anyone. But he can certainly 

14 tell you how to file. He can help you with 

15 setting up conferences on my docket, those 

16 kinds of things. 

17 So as it stands now, we just-- we 

18 have April 4, 2014 for the Respondent to file 

19 its response to the Motion for Decision. 

20 April 18, 2014 for the FAA to file a reply, if 

21 any. And then we have a second Rule 16 

22 litigation scheduling conference set up for 

NEAL R. GROSS 

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COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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1 March 13, 2014 from 1:00 to 2:00 p.m. 

2 And folks you' 11 need to simply 

3 call in on the same conference number that you 

4 called in on this morning. Assuming that that 

5 conference is confirmed after I receive the 

6 materials on the Motion to Dismiss and issue 

7 a ruling. 

8 With that, Mr. Berman is there 

9 anything else that we need to address on 

10 behalf of your client today? 

11 MR. BERMAN: No, Judge. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 

13 Dobitsch, on behalf of your client Endless 

14 Mountain Air, Inc., is there anything else 

15 that we can address for you or any questions 

16 that I can answer on your behalf? 

17 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I just, if you 

18 don't mind, I just wanted to make sure that I 

19 have it right in my head, what I'm going to 

20 file. 

21 By April 4th I'm going to write a 

22 letter to you responding why I didn't -- well 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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29 

1 actually stating why I did not respond to the 

2 FAA's Motion of Decision. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, it's 

4 twofold. And I will be issuing a written 

5 order outlining what you need to do. If you 

6 look at the Motion for Decision, on page one 

7 of the Motion for Decision, it says that you 

8 received the FAA's complaint on December 19, 

9 2013. 

10 And then on page two of the 

11 Motion, it says that you failed to file an 

12 Answer on or before January 21, 2014. 

13 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you are going 

15 to file a Response to the Motion for Decision. 

16 And in your response to the Motion 

17 for Decision, you are going to agree or 

18 disagree with 

19 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, I will also 

20 do that. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- with the facts. 

22 You know if you filed the Response to the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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30 

1 complaint before January 21, 2014, you want to 

2 say so. 

3 MR. DOBITSCH: Got it. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you didn't 

5 file a Response to the complaint on or before 

6 January 21, 2014, you want to say that and 

7 then explain why you didn't. And then as part 

s of that explanation, you can either include an 

9 answer or you can basically give a summary 

10 response and I will then direct you to file an 

11 answer if I find your response to the Motion 

12 for Decision an adequate statement for good 

13 cause. 

14 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. So in this 

15 letter I'm not -- oh, I'm sorry. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, does that 

17 make sense? 

18 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes it does. In 

19 this particular letter I will be writing, I 

20 will not address each one of the items the FAA 

21 has -- or charges the FAA against me. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. If you file 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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31 

1 an answer which is addressing each paragraph 

2 of each -- each paragraph in the complaint, 

3 the answer has to be separate from your 

4 Response to the Motion for Decision. Those 

5 are two separate documents. 

6 MR. DOBITSCH: Got it. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you can file 

8 both of them at the same time. But they 

9 should be two separate documents. One is your 

10 Response to the Motion for Decision 

11 explaining, if you can, why you didn't file an 

12 Answer timely on or before January 21, 2014. 

13 The second document is the Answer 

14 itself, which is where you admit, deny or say 

15 you don't know because of certain 

16 circumstances, each and everyone of the 

17 paragraphs in the complaint, which should have 

18 been done or before January 21, 2014. 

19 MR. DOBITSCH: Understood. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. All 

21 right, any other questions? 

22 MR. BERMAN: No, not from the 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

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32 

1 agency. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. 

3 Dobitsch? 

4 MR. DOBITSCH: I'm good. Thank 

5 you very much Your Honor. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Excellent. So I 

7 will send out a written order. You'll get it 

8 hopefully tomorrow. Mr. Dobitsch do you have 

9 a fax number that I can use to send things to 

10 you? It looks like I have 570-945-7222. 

11 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, my fax machine 

12 has been inoperative for a while. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

14 MR. DOBITSCH: You don't use email 

15 then I guess? 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We do not have 

17 any system for email filing in this office. 

18 So if you do not have a fax 

19 machine, you'll simply be getting it in the 

20 U.S. mail. 

21 MR. DOBITSGJ:: Okay. Well I do 

22 work with a-- I do work at another business. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234·4433 

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33 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do they have a 

2 fax machine? 

3 MR. DOBITSCH: They do have a fax 

4 machine. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, what's that 

6 number? 

7 MR. DOBITSCH: That number would 

8 be 570-945 I have to remember the number. 

9 I think it's 5939. But now I have to --

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there a way 

11 for you to find out right now? 

12 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I could. Can 

13 you hold on just a second. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. 

15 MR. DOBITSCH: Let me call them 

16 from another number and get on it. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

18 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you, be right 

19 back. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll note that 

21 Mr. Dobitsch has left the hearing for a 

22 moment. And we'll wait for him to return. 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

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34 

1 (Whereupon, theabove-entitledmatterwentoff 

2 the record at 11:41 a.m. and went back on the 

3 record at 11:42 a.m.) 

4 MR. DOBITSCH: Sorry about that 

5 Your Honor. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I'll note 

7 that Mr. Dobitsch has returned to the hearing 

8 telephone conference. 

9 Mr. Dobitsch, do you have a fax 

10 number? 

11 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes I do. It's 

12 570-945-5953. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I' ll repeat that . 

14 570-945-5953. Is that correct? 

15 MR. DOBITSCH: Right. Correct, 

16 yes. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We'll be -

18 - I • ll be issuing an Order either today or 

19 tomorrow. And I'll have it faxed to both 

20 parties so that you get it right away. 

21 With that it looks like our 

22 business is complete for now. I • ll thank you 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
35 

1 both very much for your time and attention. 

2 We can go off the record and I wish you both 

3 a good day. Thank you. 

4 MR. BERMAN: Okay. 

5 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, thank you for 

6 your help and your patience in explaining 

7 everything to me. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're very 

9 welcome, bye, bye. 

10 (Whereupon, the above-entitled 

11 proceeding was concluded at 11:43 a.m.) 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

NEAL R. GROSS 

(202) 234-4433 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 
A 

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(202) 234-4433 

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41 

C E R T I F I C A T E 

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: Endless Mountains Air. INC. 

Before: DOT Office of Hearings 

Date: 03-18-2014 

Place: Conference Call 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

(202) 234-4433 

Court Reporter 

NEAL R. GROSS 

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com