UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC. Respondent

Tuesday, FDMS No. FAA-2013-0848

March 18, 2014 The conference call took place via telephone, pursuant to notice, at 11:00 a.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J.E. SULLIVAN, Administrative Law Judge 

# RECEIVED APR -

## 22014 

### HEARING DOCKET

NEAL R. GROSS 1

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comAPPEARANCES: On Behalf of the Complainant: ZACHARY M. BERMAN, ESQ. of: Office of the Regional Counsel Eastern Region Federal Aviation Administration 1 Aviation Plaza Jamaica, New York 11434 (718) 553-3258 (718) 995-5699 (fax) On Behalf of the Respondent: WILLIAM J. DOBITSCH, JR. of: Endless Mountains Air, Inc. Seamans Airport 727 Windsock Lane Factoryville, PA 18419 (570) 945-5939 (fax) Also Present: CODY L. SMITH, DOT Staff Attorney

NEAL R. GROSS 2

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1 

### P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 11:05 a.m. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, we're on 4 the record in the matter of Endless Mountain 5 

### Air, Inc. This is docket number FAA-2013- 6 0848. 7 Today is Tuesday, March 18, 2014. 8 And the parties have convened for a Rule 16 9 litigation scheduling conference. 10 The Federal Aviation 11 Administrationwhich I'll hereinafterreferto 12 by its initials, the FAA, is represented by 13 Zachary M. Berman, the attorney of record. 14 The Respondent Endless Mounts Air, 15 

### Inc. Is represented by Mr. William J. 16 

### Dobitsch, Jr. Mr. Dobitsch are you an 17 attorney, are you an owner of the company? 18 Can you give me a little bit better idea of 19 who you are in relationship to the named 20 litigant. 21 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes Your Honor. I 22 am the owner of the company. Unfortunately,

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### 1 I cannot afford an attorney at this time. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 3 So you are the owner and lay representative, 4 thank you. 5 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, all parties 7 

### are present by telephone today. In essence s for the general history of the case, this 9 matter -- complaint was filed on or about 10 December 17, 2013. 11 

### The matter was referred to the 12 Office of Hearings, where an assigned of this 13 case was issued to me on December 26, 2013. 14 On January 28, 2014, I issued an order setting 15 the Rule 16 litigation scheduling conference 16 for today's date and time. 17 

### It appears that on January 30, 18 2014 the FAA filed a Motion for Decision. And 19 then the parties jointed filed on March 11, 20 2014 a joint proposed procedural schedule. 21 What I'm going to do is I'll 22 address my questions first to Mr. Berman who

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### 1 is the prosecuting attorney. And then I will 2 look to Mr. Dobitsch second for any responses 3 or additional comments. 4 

### And you'll see me doing that 5 

### throughout the litigation proceeding. I 

### 6 generally always go to the prosecuting agent 7 first and then to the Respondent second. 8 

### It's not in any way showing 9 

### particular bias. It simply is the legal 10 procedure that one typically uses that 11 everybodyknows when it's their time to speak. 12 So Mr. Berman, let's start with 13 

### you. And let me ask you a couple questions 14 

### about the January 30, 2014 Motion for 15 Decision. 16 

### This particular motion asserts 17 that no answer was filed in a timely fashion 18 to the complaint. And my question to you is 19 did you receive an answer filing this motion? 20 

### MR. BERMAN: No, I did not. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Has there 22 been any kind of agreement by the parties

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### 1 regarding this motion or is it still pending 2 in its entirety? 3 

### MR. BERMAN: Still pending as far 4 as I know. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Then Mr. 6 

### Dobitsch, let me turn to you next. This 7 particularmotion, which was filed by the FAA 8 asserts, that you and your company have not 9 filed a formal answer since the complaint was 10 

### filed. Did you have a chance to read this 11 motion? 12 MR. DOBITSCH: I actually

-- Mr. 13 Berman, I spoke to him earlier last week just 14 to confirm that he had gotten my signed 15 proposed procedural schedule, brought this to 16 my attention. He asked me if I'd seen it and 17 I did not see it. He was kind enough to send 18 me an email with it. 19 

### And I did search through my 20 records and the package, I think it was a 21 FedEx package, was signed for a friend over 22 here for my business and unfortunatelyI never

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1 did see it. So I am aware of this now. But 2 I was not aware of this earlier. I think it 3 had been last Tuesday or Wednesday. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You need 5 to respond to it in writing. And the reason 6 I say that is because the FAA is asking in 7 this motion for me to find based on your 8 silence, that all of the violations are 9 admitted. And that the only thing left for 10 hearing is the issue of a proposed civil 11 penalty. 12 So I think what we need to do 13 first and foremost, is set up a time for you 14 to file a Response to this motion. And then 15 reset the litigation scheduling conference 16 after that. 17 You may, as a representative for 18 your company, believe that all violations 19 should be litigated. Or you may believe that 20 some of them they should be litigated. Or you 21 may believe that none of them need to be 22 litigated.

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### 1 But in this particularmotion that 2 

### the FAA filed, there asserting that none of 3 them shouldbe litigatedbecause you failed to 4 respond in a timely way. 5 So what you need to do is number 6 one, respond to the motion and explain just 7 like you did very briefly today, why you did 8 not respond promptly. Because what you want 9 to demonstrate if you can, is whether there 10 was a good reason for your failure to not 11 respond. 12 MR. DOBITSCH: Right. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### If I find that 14 

### there is a that you have shown a good 15 reason for not responding in a timely way, 16 then I can rule for you and against the FAA. 17 If I find that there isn't a good 18 reason for your failure to respond timely, 19 then I would likely rule for the FAA and 20 against you. It just depends on what you say 21 in your response. 22 In any event, in filing a response

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9 1 to this, it forces you to look at what the 2 violations are and whether or not you are 3 challenging the actual violations or whether 4 you are challengingthis proposedpenalty. Or 5 a combination of the two. And you might want 6 to address that a little bit in your response. 7 As part of your response, what 8 most people do is they also file an answer. 9 But that's up to you to decide whether or not 10 you're going to do that contemporaneously. 11 If I grant the motion on your 12 behalf, I'll direct you to file an answer if 13 you haven't already. If I deny the motion, 14 and grant it on the FAA's behalf, I'll simply 15 direct you to file an answer for the civil 16 penalty provisions as opposed to the 17 violations. 18 Does that make sense so far? 19 MR. DOBITSCH: Essentially, Your 20 Honor. I think I need to file a response now 21 to you why

-- to let you know why I did not 22 respond to this Motion for Decision.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. If you 2 read the Motion to Dismiss, do you have it in 3 front of you by any chance? 4 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes I do. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. If you 6 read the Motion to Dismiss, you'll see that 7 the FAA is asserting that it served you on s December 17, 2013 with its complaint. 9 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that the 11 complaint was received by you no later than 12 December 19, 2013. This is all on page one on 13 the Motion. 14 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then as you 16 go to page two of the motion, it says in 17 paragraph seven that you had a deadline of 18 January 21, 2014 to file an answer or a motion 19 to the complaint. And you did neither. 20 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Under the Rules 22 of Practice in this agency, this is the United

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1 States Department of Transportation, and the 2 FAA is the prosecuting agent. 3 Under the Rules of Practice and 4 FAA proceedings, if a responding party fails 5 to answer or reply in any way within the 6 period required, the FAA has the ability to 7 bring a motion like this one to dismiss, which 8 they've done. 9 And then as you see on page two 10 running into page three and page four, the FAA 11 is saying that you haven't demonstrateda good 12 cause reason for failing to answer by January 13 21, 2014. 14 As a result, the FAA wants me to 15 find that all of the allegations regardingthe 16 violationthat are containedin its complaint, 17 should be deemed true and uncontested. 18 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then you see 20 at the very last page, I'm sorry, the last two 21 pages, pages four and five, that the FAA wants 22 to have a civil penalty imposed in the amount

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### 12 1 of $46,200 or, in the alternative, to limit 2 the hearing to only the issue of whether that 3 amount of money is appropriate. 4 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you want 6 you want to respond to this motion, because if 7 you don't 8 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Absolutely. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: it's 10 uncontested. So there are, as I understand it 11 from the complaint, and we'll check in with 12 Mr. Berman about this, there looks to be two 13 violations that are asserted, maybe more. It 14 could be as many as five or more. But we'll 15 chat with him about that in a moment. 16 And there is obviously a request 17 by the FAA for a substantial amount of money 18 to be imposed as a fine against your company. 19 So if you go back to this page two 20 of the motion, in paragraph nine, there's an 21 assertionthat says, quote, Respondenthas not 22 demonstrated good cause for its failure to

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1 

### file an answer, end quote. When you respond 2 to this Motion, part of your response might be 3 stating whether you had a good reason or 4 number of reasons for not responding on or 5 before**Januar~** 

### 21, 2014. 6 And I know you said a few things 7 to us today, and you'd probablywant to repeat 8 those things in your motion in writing. 9 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 10 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then you can 11 

### identify in your response to this motion, if 12 you are challenging all of the violations, 13 some of the violations or none of the 14 violations. 15 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So that I have a 17 better idea of where you want to spend your 18 time. 19 

### And that's your decision, it's 20 

### none of my business what you choose to do. 21 But you should at least let me know what you 22 want.

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1 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, so 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So what I'm going 3 to suggest is I'm going to set a due date for 4 

### you to file a writtenresponse to this motion. 5 And then we will reset the Rule 16 6 conference after that deadline. 7 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So that I have 9 time to receive your motion. I will give Mr. 10 Berman a chance to reply to your motion. And 11 then I will rule on the motion before we meet 12 

### again. And it may be that I strike the 13 conference and say there's no basis for meet 14 again at all based on what I received. 15 But that's speculative right now. 16 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'd rather set a 18 new conference so that we have it on the 19 calendar just in case. 20 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 21 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 22 

### MR. DOBITSCH: So Judge-- oh, I'm

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com15 1 sorry -- 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me turn to 3 Mr. Berman for a moment. Mr. Berman in 4 looking at your complaint, it's unclear to me 5 how many violations your alleging. Can you 6 help us out with that. 7 MR. BERMAN: Our position would be 8 that the violation

-- there was essentially 9 one violation for six different flights, so 10 that there were six flights. There were 11 well, actually, excuse me, there were two 12 violations per flight. There was the failure 13 to pass the 190

-- the pilot not having passed 14 the 135.293 check and the 135.299(a) check. 15 There were two violations and for 16 each of six flights, that would be 12 17 violations. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So would 19 it be

-- okay, so you want to count those each 20 as a violation as opposed to counts within the 21 violation? 22 MR. BERMAN: Yes.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So you're 2 saying that there's a total of 12 violations? 3 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And six of the 5 violations are under subsection (a), which is 6 found on page two of the complaint under 7 paragraph three. And six of the violations 8 are found under subsection (b) as in boy, on 9 page three in the middle of the page. Is that 10 right? 11 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And then 13 in terms of your complaint, you don't have the 14 specific dates of each flight, but they appear 15 to be between the period of September 23, 2011 16 through the date of October 9, 2011. 17 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. All right. 19 Now in terms of the $46,200, do you have any 20 idea at this time how that money is 21 arranged is not the correct word, but divided 22 between these violations?

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1 MR. BERMAN: I believe we came up 2 with a number per flight, and divided it 3 equally. And each flight was assigned an 4 equal number. So the

-- I mean I could just 5 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well if we 7 divided the number of $46,200 by 12, or s that would equal, excuse me, about $3,850 9 assessed for each flight. Is that 10 MR. BERMAN: Well it's actually 11 the six $46,200 from the 740

-- $7,700 per 12 flight. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 14 MR. BERMAN: And yes. The number 15 you can up with is per regulation, per flight. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. 17 MR. BERMAN: The 38

-- 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're telling me 19 that there 12 violations. 20 MR. BERMAN: Right, right, right. 21 So it's-- right, so each one would be-- each 22 of the 12 violations would be half of $7,700,

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### 1 which would be the number you came up with, 2 which was I believe, the $3,850. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### Okay. That's 4 

### helpful, thank you. 5 

### Okay, Mr. Dobitsch, so essentially 6 

### you have you're looking at in this 7 

### complaint-, a total of 12 

### violations based on 8 

### the two regulations that are cited in the 9 

### complaint on pages two and three. And you're 10 

### looking at a total penalty of $46,200, 

### which 11 

### is divided between the 12 

### violations fairly 12 

### equitably. So that each violation carries a 13 

### proposed civil penalty of $3,850. 14 

### When do you think you can 15 reasonably file a written response to the 16 Motion for Decision at this point? 17 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Can I have a few

-- 18 

### four weeks, a few weeks? 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### Well two weeks 2

### o would probably be ample. Because it's been a 21 

### long time. 22 MR. DOBITSCH: Would that

--

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### 19

1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So let's take a 2 look at my calendar and your calendar and Mr. 3 Berman's calendar. And so today is March 18. 4 

### Mr. Berman, I'm going to suggest some dates 5 and I want you to look at your calendar. 6 

### If we set the response to the 7 Motion for Decision to be due on or before 8 April 4, 

### which is a Friday, what date after 9 that would filing a reply be reasonable for 10 you? 11 MR. BERMAN: I would-- normally I 12 would ask for a week, but I'm taking a few 13 days off for the holiday. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 15 

### MR. BERMAN: Passover, so I would 16 ask for two weeks. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and which 18 day are you looking at for filing a replay? 19 You can just tell me. 20 

### MR. BERMAN: The one -- it would 21 be due on what, April 4h? 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If the response

NEALR. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nea!rgross.com20 1 is due April 4, 2014, what 2 MR. BERMAN: I would ask until 3 April 18th. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay, Mr. 5 Dobitsch does that sound reasonable to you? 6 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's 8 talk about resetting the remainder of the 9 litigation schedule to a point after that. 10 And I have a trial that's going to last a full 11 week immediatelythereafter, so let me look at 12 my time. 13 Why don't we set this Mr. 14 Berman do you have time available on either 15 May 12, or May 13 for a second Rule 16 16 conference? 17 MR. BERMAN: Yes, my schedule 18 my calendar is open for both days. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. 20 Dobitsch, how about you? Does either date 21 work for you? 22 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, either date

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### 21 1 would work for me. 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't 3 

### we plan then for Tuesday, May 13, 2014 and I 4 

### have a 1:00 o'clock time open. And so we'll 5 set that for 1:00 to 2:00p.m. That will give 6 me enough time, with my trial calendar, to 7 receive the response, the reply, read it, s write a decision and get it out to both of you 9 before Tuesday, May 13, 2014. 10 

### Now a couple of housekeeping 11 

### matters. Mr. Berman, starting with you. 12 One of your staff keeps putting 13 

### the Federal Aviation Administration in the 14 jurisdictionalcaptionof your materials. And 15 that is incorrect. 16 

### If you look at, for example, the 17 Joint Proposed Procedural Schedule that was 18 

### filed most recently, on March 11, 2014. It 

### 19 shows the Federal Aviation Administration as 20 part of the jurisdictional caption. 21 MR. BERMAN: Yes, I apologize for 22 that. I had sent out an email to my office

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### 22 1 asking that not be done. But I will send out 2 an e-mail and I will talk to management in my 3 office and go over it. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please do. And I 5 will go ahead

-- you're not the only person in 6 the Eastern Division who's been doing this. 7 And so I'm going to add that to orders that I 8 issue. 9 

### It is very misleading to the 10 litigantswho are here before me to think that 11 I am working as part of an FAA administration. 12 I don't. 13 This office is the Office of the 14 

### Secretary as you know. The Federal Aviation 15 Administrationis not a -- is not my employer. 16 

### So the FAA heading should be 17 removed from the jurisdictional caption. 18 

### MR. BERMAN: Absolutely. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, I know that 20 

### it's used internally for your other 21 administrativethings, and I suspect that it's 22 simply a carryover from that. But I want to

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### 23 1 make sure that the headings are correctly 2 

### listing my department as the Office of 3 

### Hearings in Washington, D.C. 4 

### And Mr. Dobitsch, you'll want to 5 

### do that as well. If you'll

-- you'll get a 6 

### hearingnotice from this office and you' 11 

### see 7 

### that it says 

### u.s. Department of 8 

### Transportation, Office of Hearings, 9 

### Washington, D.C. And that is the proper 10 heading for this office. 11 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, so I'll

-- 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch let 13 me turn to you next on service. We have 14 certain rules regarding service. And if you 15 look at the Joint Procedural Schedule on the 16 very last page, you'll see a Certificate of 17 Service that one of Mr. Berman's legal 18 assistants filled out. 19 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. If you 21 look at the Rule 16 Order that I sent out 22 earlier this year, you'll also see that the

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### 24 1 last page has a service list. 2 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Whenever you file 4 your response to the Motion for Decision, you 5 need to have a service list like these 6 attached as the last page to your response. 7 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And not only 9 

### should it be attached, it's basically a 10 statement by you that you have sent a copy of 11 your response to each individual or entity 12 listed on the service list. So you keep a 13 copy for yourself, you send one to the Federal 14 

### Aviation Administrations Hearing Docket 15 because they keep the public electronic copy 16 of all materials that are filed in this case. 17 

### You send one to Mr. Berman. And 18 then you send one to me. 19 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Right. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Now just so that 21 you know, since 2001, 

### there has been a radical 22 change in how government offices receive

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### 25 1 United States mail, as you are probably no 2 doubt aware. All mail now becomes

-- now goes 3 

### through an irradiation process. So it can 4 

### delay the receipt of this mail sometimes up to 5 

### three weeks. 6 

### So the practice now is that you 7 

### mail a copy to me and you fax a copy to my 8 

### office. 9 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 10 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Typically you 11 want to fax a copy to your friend across the 12 aisle, Mr. Berman, as well because he's in a 13 government office and they have the same types 14 of irradiation requirements that my office 15 does. 16 

### If the two of you reach an 17 agreement that you want to email each other, 18 that's fine. That's none of my business. But 19 for purposes of proving service, you want to 20 mail a copy and the mailing date has to be 21 before the deadline. 22 And you definitely want to fax a

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### 1 copy on or before the deadline given. 2 Because the deadline I give you is 3 the deadline I want to have it in my hand. 4 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: That's the only 6 way I'm going to know that you have served it. 7 Because I won't

-- I can't rely on the U.S. 8 mail for my deadline compliance review. 9 Sometimes I don't get it for weeks. 10 

### So you need to be sure to have 11 your materials properly served. And you can 12 use either Mr. Berman's service example. And 13 you make sure that Mr. Berman's name and 14 address is added to that. Or you can use the 15 Court's service example. I think mine has 16 everybody's name, so it might be a little 17 easier, but it's up to you. 18 

### And then my order, there is an 19 attorney who works on my cases with me. And 20 he is available to answer questions that are 21 procedural in nature by anyone. And his name 22 is Mr. Smith. And I will put in my order his

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com27 1 phone number in case you need to reach him. 2 Mr. Berman has had a chance to 3 utilize his services. And Mr. Berman I've not 4 asked you this before, but have you had any -- 5 have you had a good experience so far with Mr. 6 Smith? 7 MR. BERMAN: Oh yes. He's always 8 very prompt and always he's always very 9 helpful. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay good. So 11 Mr. Smith is available for proceduralmatters. 12 He cannot give legal advice. He can't help 13 advocate for anyone. But he can certainly 14 tell you how to file. He can help you with 15 setting up conferences on my docket, those 16 kinds of things. 17 So as it stands now, we just-- we 18 have April 4, 2014 for the Respondent to file 19 its response to the Motion for Decision. 20 April 18, 2014 for the FAA to file a reply, if 21 any. And then we have a second Rule 16 22 litigation scheduling conference set up for

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### 28 1 March 13, 2014 from 1:00 to 2:00 p.m. 2 

### And folks you' 11 

### need to simply 3 

### call in on the same conferencenumber that you 4 

### called in on this morning. Assuming that that 5 

### conference is confirmed after I receive the 6 

### materials on the Motion to Dismiss and issue 7 

### a ruling. 8 

### With that, Mr. Berman is there 9 

### anything else that we need to address on 10 

### behalf of your client today? 11 MR. BERMAN: No, Judge. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. 13 Dobitsch, on behalf of your client Endless 14 Mountain Air, Inc., is there anything else 15 that we can address for you or any questions 16 that I can answer on your behalf? 17 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I just, if you 18 don't mind, I just wanted to make sure that I 19 have it right in my head, what I'm going to 20 file. 21 By April 4th 

### I'm going to write a 22 letter to you responding why I didn't

-- well

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### 29 1 actually stating why I did not respond to the 2 FAA's Motion of Decision. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, it's 4 

### twofold. And I will be issuing a written 5 

### order outlining what you need to do. If you 6 look at the Motion for Decision, on page one 7 of the Motion for Decision, it says that you 8 received the FAA's complaint on December 19, 9 

### 2013. 10 

### And then on page two of the 11 Motion, it says that you failed to file an 12 Answer on or before January 21, 2014. 13 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you are going 15 to file a Response to the Motion for Decision. 16 And in your response to the Motion 17 for Decision, you are going to agree or 18 disagree with 19 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, I will also 20 do that. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN:

-- with the facts. 22 You know if you filed the Response to the

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### 1 complaintbefore January 21, 2014, you want to 2 

### say so. 3 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Got it. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you didn't 5 

### file a Response to the complaint on or before 6 January 21, 2014, you want to say that and 7 

### then explainwhy you didn't. And then as part 

### s of that explanation, you can either include an 9 

### answer or you can basically give a summary 10 

### response and I will then direct you to file an 11 answer if I find your response to the Motion 12 for Decision an adequate statement for good 13 

### cause. 14 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. So in this 15 

### letter I'm not -- oh, I'm sorry. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, does that 17 

### make sense? 18 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes it does. In 19 this particular letter I will be writing, I 20 will not address each one of the items the FAA 21 has

-- or charges the FAA against me. 22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. If you file

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### 31

1 

### an answer which is addressing each paragraph 2 

### of each

-- each paragraph in the complaint, 3 

### the answer has to be separate from your 4 

### Response to the Motion for Decision. Those 5 

### are two separate documents. 6 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Got it. 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you can file 8 

### both of them at the same time. But they 9 

### shouldbe two separate documents. One is your 10 

### Response to the Motion for Decision 11 

### explaining, if you can, why you didn't file an 12 Answer timely on or before January 21, 2014. 

### 13 The second document is the Answer 14 

### itself, which is where you admit, deny or say 15 

### you don't know because of certain 16 circumstances, each and everyone of the 17 paragraphs in the complaint, which shouldhave 18 been done or before January 21, 2014. 19 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Understood. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay. All 21 right, any other questions? 22 MR. BERMAN: No, not from the

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### 1 agency. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And Mr. 3 Dobitsch? 4 

### MR. DOBITSCH: I'm good. Thank 5 you very much Your Honor. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Excellent. So I 7 will send out a written order. You'll get it 8 hopefully tomorrow. Mr. Dobitsch do you have 9 a fax number that I can use to send things to 10 you? It looks like I have 570-945-7222. 11 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, my fax machine 12 has been inoperative for a while. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 14 

### MR. DOBITSCH: You don't use email 15 then I guess? 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: We do not have 17 any system for email filing in this office. 18 

### So if you do not have a fax 19 machine, you'll simply be getting it in the 20 U.S. mail. 21 MR. DOBITSGJ:: Okay. Well I do 22 work with a-- I do work at another business.

NEAL R. GROSS (202) 234·4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com33 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do they have a 2 fax machine? 3 MR. DOBITSCH: They do have a fax 4 machine. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, what's that 6 number? 7 MR. DOBITSCH: That number would 8 be 570-945 I have to remember the number. 9 I think it's 5939. But now I have to -- 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there a way 11 for you to find out right now? 12 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I could. Can 13 you hold on just a second. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. 15 MR. DOBITSCH: Let me call them 16 from another number and get on it. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 18 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you, be right 19 back. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll note that 21 Mr. Dobitsch has left the hearing for a 22 moment. And we'll wait for him to return.

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### 1 (Whereupon, theabove-entitledmatterwentoff 2 the record at 11:41 a.m. and went back on the 3 record at 11:42 a.m.) 4 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Sorry about that 5 Your Honor. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I'll note 7 that Mr. Dobitsch has returned to the hearing 8 telephone conference. 9 Mr. Dobitsch, do you have a fax 10 number? 11 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes I do. It's 12 570-945-5953. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'll repeat that
. 14 570-945-5953. 

### Is that correct? 15 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Right. Correct, 16 yes. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We'll be

- 18 - I •ll be issuing an Order either today or 19 

### tomorrow. And I'll have it faxed to both 20 parties so that you get it right away. 21 

### With that it looks like our 22 business is complete for now. I •ll thank you

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### 1 both very much for your time and attention. 2 We can go off the record and I wish you both 3 

### a good day. Thank you. 4 

### MR. BERMAN: Okay. 5 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, thank you for 6 your help and your patience in explaining 7 everything to me. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: You're very 9 welcome, bye, bye. 10 

### (Whereupon, the above-entitled 11 proceeding was concluded at 11:43 a.m.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 

### 22

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_, ' ' " '"'''"'""" •"""""**~""-=''~" ·c~,~-** 41 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Endless Mountains Air. INC.

Before: DOT Office of Hearings

Date: 03-18-2014

Place: Conference Call

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202) 234-4433 Court Reporter

NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com