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·3· · · · · · U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY

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·6· ·RECEIVING PUBLIC COMMENTS ON EPA'S PROPOSED PSD PERMIT

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·9· · · · · · · · ·FOR THE MCELMO CREEK FLARE

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12· · · · · · · · · · · ·PUBLIC HEARING

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15· · · · · · · · · · ·NOVEMBER 20, 2014

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18· · · · · · · · · · · · ANETH, UTAH

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·1· · THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE ENTERED IN THE RECORD:

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·3· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Well, good

·4· ·evening, everyone.· This hearing is now in session.

·5· · · · · · · · Before I get started with my opening

·6· ·statement, I want to introduce Ms. Joanna Austin-

·7· ·Manygoats, who is here to provide Dine` translation for

·8· ·the public hearing.· This is public hearing on EPA's

·9· ·proposed PSD Permit for the McElmo Creek Flare.

10· · · · · · · · What's going to wind up happening is Ms.

11· ·Manygoats is going to -- I'm going to give a portion of

12· ·my opening statement then she will do the translation,

13· ·and we'll kind of go back and forth.· She will also be

14· ·translating Shaheerah Kelly, who you see here to my

15· ·left, will be giving a short presentation.· She will be

16· ·translating the presentation.

17· · · · · · · · And then I asked anyone who would like to

18· ·give a public comment in Dine` to please let Ms.

19· ·Manygoats know so that she can be prepared to do so, to

20· ·do the translation.· Otherwise we will just proceed in

21· ·English.

22· · · · · · · · My name is Steven Jawgiel, I'm an attorney

23· ·from EPA Region 9 and I'm serving as the Public Hearing

24· ·Officer tonight in this hearing, it's a comment hearing.

25· · · · · · · · You will have the opportunity to submit
·1· ·comments either orally or in writing or both, actually.

·2· ·And I will go through the process of how you can submit

·3· ·a written comment.· And like I mentioned earlier, if you

·4· ·would like to submit an oral comment, please fill out a

·5· ·Speaker Card on the back table in the lobby and the

·6· ·cards will come to me and I will go ahead and call these

·7· ·off in the order that I receive them.

·8· · · · · · · · In case you don't know, probably most of

·9· ·you do, the bathrooms are in the lobby, so if you exit

10· ·the room here to right, and then on the left-hand side

11· ·are the restrooms.· And then there's an exit door to my

12· ·right here, and there's also an exit door in the back of

13· ·the room on the right-hand side.

14· · · · · · · · I would like to go ahead and introduce some

15· ·of the folks that are here with me.· We have Gerardo

16· ·Rios, who is the Chief of the Air Permits Office of EPA

17· ·Region 9.· I've already introduced Shaheerah Kelly,

18· ·who's also with the Air Permits Office at EPA Region 9.

19· ·Roberto Gutierrez, who's also in the back.· All these

20· ·people can help you with information.

21· · · · · · · · I know there was an information session

22· ·beforehand, but if you have a need to gain additional

23· ·information, please feel free to contact them.

24· · · · · · · · And I also have Nan here up front, who is

25· ·an EPA contractor and she's assisting us with the
·1· ·logistics of the hearing tonight.· I've already

·2· ·introduced Joanna Manygoats, who is our interpreter.

·3· ·And to my right is Keith, who is our Certified Court

·4· ·Reporter, he will be transcribing and recording

·5· ·everything that is said in this hearing tonight.

·6· · · · · · · · So with that, sometimes people are not used

·7· ·to working with a court reporter.· I ask that you speak

·8· ·clearly and slowly, which will assist Keith in

·9· ·transcribing whatever you say accurately for the

10· ·official record.

11· · · · · · · · The other thing I also ask people is if

12· ·we're in a situation, not to talk over each other. I

13· ·will try my best not to -- you know, when the time is up

14· ·to wait for a pause in your speaking to tell you that

15· ·the time is up.· And I'd just ask that people don't talk

16· ·over each other during the hearing because it becomes

17· ·very, very difficult for Keith to actually capture what

18· ·the people saying while two people are talking at one

19· ·time.

20· · · · · · · · And I guess before I continue on with the

21· ·opening statement and discuss more of the logistics of

22· ·the hearing tonight, we're going to just turn our

23· ·attention over to Shaheerah Kelly, who is going to give

24· ·a brief -- oh, I'm sorry.· I forgot.· Ms. Manygoats is

25· ·going to go ahead and translate what I've been saying.
·1· ·Then we will move over to Shaheerah and we'll continue

·2· ·on with the presentation.

·3· · · · · · · · · · · (Translation of remarks.)

·4· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you, Ms.

·5· ·Manygoats.

·6· · · · · · · · So we're going to go ahead and lower the

·7· ·screen and then Shaheerah will give her presentation.

·8· · · · · · · · · · · SHAHEERAH KELLY:· Hi, can everyone

·9· ·hear me?· Great.

10· · · · · · · · Good evening.· My name is Shaheerah Kelly,

11· ·as Steve mentioned, and I will be giving you an overview

12· ·of the Environmental Protection Agency's action for the

13· ·McElmo Creek Unit Main Flare.

14· · · · · · · · First I'll start with EPA's action, what

15· ·are we doing.· We are amending the Clean Air Act

16· ·Prevention of Significant Deterioration permit, or PSD

17· ·permit for the McElmo Creek Unit facility in two ways.

18· · · · · · · · First we are adding pollution limits and

19· ·other terms and conditions as required by a court order

20· ·federal Consent Decree for the existing Main Flare at

21· ·the site.

22· · · · · · · · Second, we are removing and updating other

23· ·requirements in the permit due to equipment that has

24· ·been shut down and removed from the site.

25· · · · · · · · Other than the replacement of a fixed speed
·1· ·fan with a variable speed fan to provide better

·2· ·pollution control at the Main Flare, this permit action

·3· ·does not authorize any new construction or changes to

·4· ·existing equipment at the site.

·5· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·6· · · · · · · · · · · SHAHEERAH KELLY:· Our action is

·7· ·focused primarily on the Main Flare.· The Main Flare is

·8· ·an existing large flaring device, it is used to use burn

·9· ·waste gases from various sources at the McElmo Creek

10· ·Unit oilfield.

11· · · · · · · · The McElmo Creek Unit oilfield is primarily

12· ·involved in crude petroleum oil production, and it is

13· ·one of four oilfield units in the greater Aneth oilfield

14· ·on the Navajo Nation Reservation located near here in

15· ·Aneth, here in Utah.

16· · · · · · · · I have a map here showing the four oilfield

17· ·units, and McElmo Creek is on the far right.

18· · · · · · · · The McElmo Creek Unit oilfield includes

19· ·field operations and a gas compression plant.

20· · · · · · · · The field operations consist of about 90

21· ·producing wells where crude oil is recovered, and the

22· ·gas compression plant is used to support recovery of

23· ·crude oil in the McElmo Creek Unit oilfield.· And this

24· ·is where the Main Flare is located, at the gas

25· ·compression plant.
·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·2· · · · · · · · · · · SHAHEERAH KELLY:· EPA's analysis of

·3· ·what a permit includes is our determination for the Best

·4· ·Available Control Technology, or BACT, for the Main

·5· ·Flare, which is used to minimize flaring.

·6· · · · · · · · BACT concludes for this action limitations

·7· ·for controlling emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen

·8· ·oxides, carbon monoxide and volatile organic compounds.

·9· ·The limit includes 60 tons per year of sulfur dioxide,

10· ·13.4 tons per year, about 13 tons per year of nitrogen

11· ·oxides, 73 tons per year of carbon monoxide and 95,

12· ·about 95 tons per year of volatile organic compounds.

13· · · · · · · · I do want to mention that the flare

14· ·previously had no emission limits, in this action,

15· ·through a Consent Decree, EPA is requiring flares stay

16· ·below these limits.

17· · · · · · · · It also includes operating a flare using

18· ·air-assist technology.· Operating the flare to ensure

19· ·that the net heating value for dilution is greater than

20· ·or equal to 24.4 BTU per feet squared, which is a

21· ·measure of complete combustion.· Operating and

22· ·maintaining the Main Flare in accordance with EPA's

23· ·federal flare standards at 40 CFR 60.18.· And lastly,

24· ·following other operations and maintenance, root cause,

25· ·and corrective action requirements for flaring events.
·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·2· · · · · · · · · · · SHAHEERAH KELLY:· The last slide is

·3· ·on air quality impacts.· Once again, I want to reiterate

·4· ·that our changes only update the permit of Concent

·5· ·Decree requirements and to remove from the permit

·6· ·equipment no longer at the facility.

·7· · · · · · · · These changes actually strengthen the

·8· ·requirements for the flare by adding conditions to

·9· ·assure that the facility meets emissions and operational

10· ·requirements.· Regarding air quality, EPA analyzed the

11· ·emission limitations, the impacts that the emission

12· ·limitations would have on existing air quality in the

13· ·area.· And we concluded that the emission limitations

14· ·will met EPA's national ambient air quality impacts,

15· ·which is· generally protective of public health and

16· ·welfare.

17· · · · · · · · And the emission limitations are not

18· ·expected to adversely impact the air quality in any

19· ·designated federal Class I areas within 200 kilometers

20· ·of the site.· Two hundred kilometers is about 124 miles,

21· ·which is according to EPA's regulations.

22· · · · · · · · Class I areas are national parks and

23· ·wilderness areas designated by EPA.· And for this site

24· ·they include the Mesa Verde, Mesa Verde National Park,

25· ·which is closest to the site, about 38 miles or 60
·1· ·kilometers; the Canyonlands National Park; the Arches

·2· ·National Park, as well as the Capitol Reef National

·3· ·Park.

·4· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·5· · · · · · · · · · · SHAHEERAH KELLY:· At this time this

·6· ·concludes the presentation for the McElmo Creek Unit

·7· ·Main Flare.

·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·9· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· We're just going

10· ·to go off the record for just a moment just to take this

11· ·equipment down, put a mike up here, and then we will

12· ·proceed with the comment section of the hearing after I

13· ·make a couple more comments.· So we're off the record

14· ·right now.

15· · · · · · · · · · · (Off the record from 6:28 p.m. until

16· ·6:30 p.m.)

17· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Okay, we're going

18· ·to go back on the record.

19· · · · · · · · I'm just going to finish up with a few

20· ·preliminary comments and then we're going to get going

21· ·with the actual submission of the comments.

22· · · · · · · · First of all, I want to also thank the

23· ·Aneth Chapter for hosting us tonight and assisting us

24· ·with the equipment.· We really appreciate the use of the

25· ·space and the hospitality that everyone has shown us, we
·1· ·greatly appreciate that.

·2· · · · · · · · For the purpose of tonight's hearing, it's

·3· ·for EPA to obtain oral and written comments on the PSD,

·4· ·the proposed PSD permit.· EPA will not be providing

·5· ·responses to the comments during this hearing.· EPA's

·6· ·responses to comments will be available at the time EPA

·7· ·issues the final decision on the PSD permit.

·8· · · · · · · · This hearing is a formal legal proceeding.

·9· ·Your oral and written comments will become part of EPA's

10· ·official record in this matter.· EPA will consider all

11· ·of your oral and written comments related to EPA's

12· ·current proposed action when making its final decision

13· ·on the permit for this project.· You may submit, as I

14· ·mentioned before, you may submit oral comments, written

15· ·comments or both.· If you would like to submit written

16· ·comments while you are here today, please feel free to

17· ·do so.· I believe there's a box in the back, in the back

18· ·of the room to your right, right before you exit where

19· ·you can actually deposit those written comments, and

20· ·those will be collected and considered by those making

21· ·the decision on the final permit.

22· · · · · · · · Written comments submitted by US Mail must

23· ·be postmarked on or before, November 20, 2014.· Written

24· ·comments submitted by email must be submitted by the end

25· ·of the business day, November 20, 2014.
·1· · · · · · · · Ms. Manygoats, if you would like to go

·2· ·ahead and translate that section.

·3· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·4· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Regarding my

·5· ·role, so everyone is very clear, as the Hearing Officer

·6· ·I will not be involved in assessing any of the comments

·7· ·or making any decisions on the permit.· My sole role is

·8· ·to make sure that everyone in the room who wants to give

·9· ·an oral comment tonight has an equal opportunity to do

10· ·so and to manage this hearing so that everyone does have

11· ·an opportunity to submit oral comments, if they so

12· ·choose.

13· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

14· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· There is a

15· ·registration table out in the back, again, toward the,

16· ·right outside the exit there.· You do not need to

17· ·register to give an oral comment in tonight's hearing,

18· ·however, if you would like to receive notice of EPA's

19· ·permit decision for this project, and to receive a

20· ·response on your comments, please complete a

21· ·registration form and Roberto or Gerardo can assist you

22· ·with that.

23· · · · · · · · If you wish to, I mentioned before, if you

24· ·wish to give an oral comment, please fill out a Speaker

25· ·Card and I'll start calling these off momentarily.
·1· ·Before you start giving your comment, I will ask you to

·2· ·just state your name for the record when you give your

·3· ·comments.· But please note that the comment, as well as

·4· ·your name, will appear in the official record.

·5· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

·6· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Initially the

·7· ·speakers, each of the speakers will be provided five

·8· ·minutes to submit their oral comments.· We have a

·9· ·speaker timer on the table, which you'll see when you

10· ·get up to the podium.· It has three different colors on

11· ·it.· It will turn green when you begin your comment, and

12· ·then it will turn yellow when there's one minute

13· ·remaining, and then it will turn red when the five

14· ·minutes are up.· At that time, if you continue going

15· ·forward, I'll probably try to find a good spot to kind

16· ·of nudge in and just ask you to complete your comment.

17· · · · · · · · And I understand we don't have a lot of

18· ·people here tonight, so what we will do is I will go

19· ·through the Speaker Cards in the order that I've

20· ·received them, and then I'll go through them again if

21· ·someone wants an additional five minutes, I will provide

22· ·them an additional five minutes to add additional oral

23· ·comments.· And then after that, I'll just ask you to

24· ·please submit, if you have any additional comments you

25· ·want to make, please submit those in writing.
·1· · · · · · · · So you will likely have an opportunity, if

·2· ·you wish, to have up to ten minutes to make oral

·3· ·comments tonight, in two five-minute slots.

·4· · · · · · · · And you would also see that Nan has cards,

·5· ·and she'll raise the cards in addition to the lights,

·6· ·just so you're very clear where you stand regard to the

·7· ·timing, when there's one minute remaining.· And I think

·8· ·she may even have a card that says "stop", and that just

·9· ·means that five minutes are up.

10· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Translation of remarks.)

11· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you, Ms.

12· ·Manygoats.

13· · · · · · · · So we will proceed with the actual oral

14· ·comments.· And I thank Ms. Manygoats.· Unless someone

15· ·requests Dine` translation, that will conclude the Dine`

16· ·translation for the evening.· But, like I said, if you

17· ·wish to have, if you like to speak in Dine , please let

18· ·us know and Ms. Manygoats will translate in English for

19· ·the Court Reporter.

20· · · · · · · · With that I'm going to call the first

21· ·speaker up to the microphone.· Melvin Capitan.· Thank

22· ·you for being here tonight, and thanks for your

23· ·patience.

24· · · · · · · · Also, folks, I'm sure everyone has seen, we

25· ·also have some light refreshments on the side of the
·1· ·room, feel free to help yourself.

·2· · · · · · · · · · · MELVIN CAPITAN:· Good evening.· My

·3· ·name is Melvin Capitan representing the Aneth Red Mesa

·4· ·Mexican Water Chapter community.

·5· · · · · · · · I'm happy to be part of this hearing.· I'm

·6· ·happy you're here.· We never realized or expected your

·7· ·organization to come out to this area in the lifetime

·8· ·I've been here.· It's good to see and hear from you.

·9· · · · · · · · As you know, Utah is ranked as the 11th

10· ·producing oilfield out here in production.· There's

11· ·11,000 wells in the State of Utah, and 2,000 of that is

12· ·here.

13· · · · · · · · The community is concerned about your

14· ·particulate matter from this Main Flare.· You know,

15· ·you're telling us that it's going to be modified, will

16· ·be under your rulings, and so forth, under the federal

17· ·flares standard that is in Class I.

18· · · · · · · · We in the community feel that it's about

19· ·time that this sort of commitment had been implemented.

20· ·It's been long overdue.· We've been suffering from this

21· ·ambient air you're talking about, the particulate

22· ·matter, for the past 50 years.· And now that the

23· ·government is taking action to reduce all of that,

24· ·that's a plus for the government and for the oil

25· ·companies.· They've been here so long that they are
·1· ·being regulated to do what needs to be done to help the

·2· ·community.· That's been -- that they have been haunted

·3· ·by them for the past 50 years.

·4· · · · · · · · You know, more of, more of that, we'd like

·5· ·to see more of your trainers or instructors to come out

·6· ·and teach the Navajo what this is all about.· I know

·7· ·it's hard to translate technical terms, but, you know,

·8· ·it's better for them to understand where all, where this

·9· ·is coming from and where's it going to, leading to.

10· · · · · · · · The question I have is that, yes, this is a

11· ·modification and, and new equipment that's going to

12· ·used.· Considering the, the constituents, the

13· ·constituents that you guys are going to be testing for,

14· ·how are we going to be regulated, or how, and who's

15· ·going to do it, who's going to oversee it.· Are we going

16· ·to have monitoring wells -- not monitoring wells, air

17· ·monitoring devices surrounding this equipment.

18· · · · · · · · Who's in charge of taking the samples?· Is

19· ·this going to be a 24/7 monitoring device that will keep

20· ·going and be ongoing so the filters can be changed

21· ·weekly and do a testing, a laboratory testing done

22· ·quarterly, yearly, biyearly, or what, you know.· We'd

23· ·like to hear that from the gas, gas and oil people.

24· · · · · · · · You know, we have over six tanks, six tank,

25· ·six tank batteries out here over 12 satellites, 20, 50
·1· ·headers, 13 flare stations and 2 CO2 plants.· I know

·2· ·this is part of the hearing, what the hearing's about,

·3· ·but that's what we're looking at around here.

·4· · · · · · · · We've been fed up with all this air quality

·5· ·issues for the last 50 years.· And we're happy that EPA

·6· ·is finally stepping in.· Navajo EPA, we contact Navajo

·7· ·EPA, they're not as stringent as U.S. EPA is. Their

·8· ·excuses are; we can't make it out here, we don't have

·9· ·the funding to come out here to investigate,

10· ·pre-investigate and see what is going on.· Spend a week

11· ·out here with us.

12· · · · · · · · So that's what we're asking the Navajo

13· ·Nation to help us with, but we've been ignored for the

14· ·last 50 years up here.· We're looking at, you know,

15· ·having other entities, like yourself and the state, to

16· ·come in and help the people, the community here to

17· ·address these issues.· Not only air quality, but for

18· ·drinking, Safe Drinking Water Act, Clear Water Act,

19· ·solid waste act, you know, underground injection act.

20· ·You know, those are the things that are really

21· ·deteriorating our community and our vegetation and our

22· ·land out here.

23· · · · · · · · And this is a start, a kick start for us, I

24· ·think.· We're going to start inviting more and more

25· ·people to, your entity, your Region 9 and the Navajo
·1· ·Nation to wake up and listen to us.

·2· · · · · · · · And then I'm happy that we're coming to the

·3· ·area, even these air quality.· Where are we sitting at?

·4· ·We'd like to know all of that.

·5· · · · · · · · I appreciate your time, and thank you.

·6· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you.

·7· ·Again, I'm going to rotate through the cards, Mr.

·8· ·Capitan, and then if you choose, if you want to come

·9· ·back up and give additional statements, you'll have an

10· ·opportunity to do so.

11· · · · · · · · The next speaker is Patricia Flynn.

12· · · · · · · · · · · PATRICK FLYNN:· That will be my

13· ·sister.

14· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Oh.· Oh, I'm

15· ·sorry, Patrick.· Mr. Flynn, I apologize, I misread the

16· ·card.

17· · · · · · · · · · · PATRICK FLYNN:· That's okay.· Poor

18· ·writing, I'm sure, on my part.

19· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· No, it's poor

20· ·eyesight on my part.· But thank you.· Thank you for

21· ·being here tonight.

22· · · · · · · · · · · PATRICK FLYNN:· My name is Patrick

23· ·Flynn, and I'm the Vice President of Governmental

24· ·Affairs with Resolute Natural Resources, who are the

25· ·operators responsible for three of four units comprising
·1· ·this greater Aneth oilfield.

·2· · · · · · · · I thank the EPA for being here.· I also

·3· ·thank the Chapter and the folks in the community who are

·4· ·here, we appreciate your, as well as the Navajo EPA for

·5· ·being here as part of this process.

·6· · · · · · · · My comments will be brief, I hope less than

·7· ·the cards will allow me.· We have provided written

·8· ·comments to EPA today, which go into much more detail.

·9· ·I just want to hit a few very high points in support of

10· ·this process.

11· · · · · · · · We do very much support and will work with

12· ·EPA to get, not only this amended PSD permit formalized

13· ·and finalized, but also to then move on with both U.S.

14· ·EPA and Navajo EPA to complete the part 71 permitting

15· ·process of this Consent Decree and finally to terminate

16· ·it.

17· · · · · · · · I think it's very important to know, as has

18· ·been had discussed in Shaheerah's presentation, that

19· ·this is not reflecting any change in process, any change

20· ·of equipment, or any change in air emissions at this

21· ·facility.· The amendment to the PSD is formalizing,

22· ·simply, the requirements, the emission limits and other

23· ·operating standards that have part of the Consent Decree

24· ·since we assumed operations in 2006.

25· · · · · · · · Briefly, I want to just reiterate that my
·1· ·company, Resolute, is committed not only to the greater

·2· ·Aneth field but to this community.· We're a member of

·3· ·this community, we employ nearly a hundred of its

·4· ·residents directly, and several hundred of the local

·5· ·residents as contractors.· We are the main employer in

·6· ·this part of the Navajo Nation.

·7· · · · · · · · Since we've assumed control of the McElmo

·8· ·Creek Unit, and the Aneth Unit about a year before,

·9· ·we've invested nearly three hundred and fifty million

10· ·dollars in capital upgrades to improve the operations,

11· ·to improve environmental performance and to increase

12· ·production.· And this Main Flare and the McElmo Creek

13· ·Unit, and the permit that we're talking about tonight,

14· ·are a key part of that capital upgrade and investment in

15· ·the facilities.

16· · · · · · · · We've increased our production out here

17· ·from 7500 barrels a day, when we took over, to over

18· ·12,000 barrels a day.· This is a 50-year old oilfield.

19· ·And because of the money and the effort and the

20· ·commitment to improvements we've made, we've been able

21· ·to turn a field that would have been abandoned within

22· ·the last couple of years into one that will continue to

23· ·be provide revenues to the Navajo people and employment

24· ·to the local Navajo work force for at least the next 30

25· ·years.
·1· · · · · · · · With regard to the McElmo Creek facility,

·2· ·one of our comments notes that we have actually added

·3· ·compression to the Main Flare facility at the McElmo

·4· ·Creek central facility, the purpose of which is to limit

·5· ·the volume of gas that's flared.· The flare only runs,

·6· ·typically, if the compressors don't.· We don't want to

·7· ·flare gas.· We have an economic incentive not to flare

·8· ·gas.· This is gas that we sell if we don't flare it.

·9· ·And CO2 that we have to purchase in order to run our

10· ·oilfields.· So we have no desire and no benefit from

11· ·flaring.

12· · · · · · · · So we have spent five million dollars early

13· ·on at the McElmo Creek facility adding new compression

14· ·and upgrading the facility to try to reduce the flaring

15· ·to the extent practicable.

16· · · · · · · · And, in fact, if you look at the volume of

17· ·gas that was flared at this Main Flare in 2006 when we

18· ·took over from the prior operator, and compare to today,

19· ·you will see that our volumes have gone down 37 percent.

20· ·So that's a significant milestone in environmental

21· ·improvement that is intrinsic to what we're talking

22· ·about in this PSD permit, and is a reflection of our

23· ·commitment to improving environmental performance.

24· · · · · · · · The other thing I would like to point out,

25· ·which is not in our comments but is relevant to this
·1· ·community, and to the EPA, is that the emissions that we

·2· ·are allowed within the Consent Decree, which are now

·3· ·becoming part of the PDS permit, and ultimately will

·4· ·become part of the operating permit, we're operating at

·5· ·a fraction of those allowable limits.· That is because

·6· ·we aren't flaring as much.

·7· · · · · · · · So the current emissions that we have on a

·8· ·rolling annual basis are 20 to 25 percent of what we

·9· ·would be allowed to do under both the Consent Decree and

10· ·the PDS permit, and in theory, ultimately the operating

11· ·permit.

12· · · · · · · · So we've made improvements.· We think this

13· ·permit is one part of the step towards continuing and to

14· ·codify that in a regulatory fashion and to improve our

15· ·operations further.· And we support your efforts and are

16· ·willing to help in any way we can.

17· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you,

18· ·Patrick.

19· · · · · · · · · · · PATRICK FLYNN:· Thank you.

20· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you for

21· ·being here tonight.· Thank you for your comments.

22· · · · · · · · And I have one more Speaker Card at this

23· ·moment.· Lambert Sandoval, Jr.· Please feel free to come

24· ·up to the mic.· Mr. Sandoval, thank you for being here

25· ·tonight.
·1· · · · · · · · · · · LAMBERT SANDOVAL, JR:· Thank you.

·2· · · · · · · · Hello, my name is Lambert Sandoval and I'm

·3· ·residing here within the Aneth Unit, living there next

·4· ·to the facility area.

·5· · · · · · · · And I got a comment, and my concern is

·6· ·talking about EPA.· Not just the flare that it is, but

·7· ·satellites, they're some satellites within the area and

·8· ·some tank batteries.· They release some of those

·9· ·pop-offs with some hydrogen sulfite fumes, things like

10· ·that.· It would be nice if that, if those are being

11· ·monitoring like annually or monthly or quarterly to

12· ·inform our community that lives within the area.

13· · · · · · · · And I was hoping to see more of this

14· ·community that live within the area, within the facility

15· ·area to be here.· But I sure appreciate for you guys

16· ·being here and what you're doing.· It will probably be,

17· ·if you give us more heads up, and heads up for the oil

18· ·company of what's going on and what people's concerns.

19· ·It would be nice to have more.· And I think we should

20· ·have more of this later on in the future for, to be

21· ·more, like hearing some more comments out of these

22· ·residential people.

23· · · · · · · · It would be nice, not just there, but

24· ·there's some flow lines or transfer lines that are

25· ·deemed pretty well corroded and pretty well worn out and
·1· ·some of those are broke loose, or break apart, and those

·2· ·fumes, they can come up just like that, unexpectedly.

·3· · · · · · · · And so living within this oilfield, being

·4· ·there day and night, now, it's kind of like it's

·5· ·hazardous and be more like aware oftenly.· Sometimes you

·6· ·don't get to sleep more nights because we're kind of

·7· ·like being more aware of the hazardous side of our

·8· ·areas.

·9· · · · · · · · So that's all I got for now.· I'm hoping to

10· ·see more of the local residents of the area.· And again,

11· ·thank you.

12· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you for

13· ·being here tonight, Mr. Sandoval, and thank you for your

14· ·comments.

15· · · · · · · · Right now I don't have any additional

16· ·Speaker Cards.· Do any of the previous speakers want to

17· ·give any additional comments at this moment?

18· · · · · · · · Mr. Capitan, please feel free.· We'll do

19· ·another five minutes.

20· · · · · · · · · · · MELVIN CAPITAN:· I'm back again.

21· ·Okay.· I just want to repeat myself on what the

22· ·emissions that they will be testing for.· The

23· ·communities are uncomfortable with who's going to be the

24· ·regulatory agency to watch over the new flaring system.

25· ·Even though it was manufacturally set, but how often
·1· ·it's going to be recalibrated, and so forth.

·2· · · · · · · · The same with the air monitoring station.

·3· ·We'd like to see that to make sure they're recalibrated

·4· ·and give us some information on what it's reading during

·5· ·the different seasonal of the year.· You know, most of

·6· ·the time, the summer and winter are the worse time, it's

·7· ·so calm and quiet that, you know, the air settles down

·8· ·into the valley and then into the rivers.

·9· · · · · · · · Combining that with what's coming down from

10· ·up the river, from the power plant, the sulfur dioxide,

11· ·you know, binding together, is that deadly, I don't

12· ·know.· We'd like to hear some more scientist talk about

13· ·that.· You know, this PM, particulate matter 10 versus

14· ·particulate matter 2.5, they're so small they can travel

15· ·so many miles, and we're saying 200 and some miles, or

16· ·200 kilometers, you know, some of these particulates can

17· ·travel hundreds, 500, a thousand miles before settling

18· ·down, air mist or particles, you know.

19· · · · · · · · The other thing that I bring up is, like I

20· ·said, we need more educational outreach, community

21· ·awareness.· Have we been affected the last 50 years?· Is

22· ·it acute, or is it a chronic thing that we're looking

23· ·at?· Will this reduce that?· I don't know, you know.

24· · · · · · · · The other thing is, like I said, combine

25· ·oil and gas and the coal firing plant up river, combine
·1· ·it together, we're living in a really delicate,

·2· ·low-lying area that the community is getting more

·3· ·worried and worried every day.

·4· · · · · · · · The older, elderly folks, kids with

·5· ·bronchitis, and so forth, you know, those are the least

·6· ·individuals that are going to be hurt by it.· Then us,

·7· ·us, young kids, young, young men that have the healthy

·8· ·body compared to the old body, the young body, you know.

·9· ·Those are things that the community is worrying about.

10· · · · · · · · Looking at the well head, like this

11· ·gentleman said, from the well head to the pipeline to

12· ·the satellite to the tanks to the headers to the main

13· ·flare, you know, how much of that emissions is

14· ·happening?· Not only are we talking about the sulfate

15· ·dioxide, nitrate, we'd like to see some detailed

16· ·readings.· Benzene, tholin, ethylbenzene, xylene, you

17· ·know, those are the things that's coming out of this oil

18· ·gas activity that the community is kind of, are afraid

19· ·for the past long, long period of time, that these need

20· ·to be addressed, how we're going to minimize all of

21· ·that?

22· · · · · · · · What plans are in place for us?· We don't

23· ·hear anything until some hearing like this.· We hear it

24· ·from the upper echelon that this is what's going to

25· ·happen.· They need to continue informing the community
·1· ·in this greater Aneth oilfield and surrounding area with

·2· ·all the information, all the studies, all the results so

·3· ·we understand here for the people to, to grasp that

·4· ·information and make it understandable for them, all the

·5· ·technical terms, you know.

·6· · · · · · · · Those are some of the things that I wanted

·7· ·just to bring up, you know.

·8· · · · · · · · It said using air quality index to

·9· ·determine and make a recommendation of air quality

10· ·control and enforcement.· Where are all the stations?

11· ·Who is going to control it?· No enforcement.· Navajo EPA

12· ·not going to enforce it.· And is the U.S. EPA Region 9

13· ·going to enforce that for us?· I don't know.· Nothing

14· ·has been set in place since 1960 here in the communities

15· ·of Aneth, Red Mesa and Mexican Water.· And we would like

16· ·to see some changes.

17· · · · · · · · And I'm happy again to come up for those

18· ·two, those three communities, and we appreciate your

19· ·time in coming down.· All of you that are here, we

20· ·appreciate you coming down to listen to us and the

21· ·community and the area.

22· · · · · · · · Thank you.

23· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Again, thank you,

24· ·we appreciate it.

25· · · · · · · · Anyone else?· Would anyone else like to
·1· ·make a comment at this time?· If not, we're going to go

·2· ·ahead and go off record probably for about 15 minutes

·3· ·and, or until I receive a -- Oh.· Thank you, thank you

·4· ·very much.· Bill Todachennie.

·5· · · · · · · · · · · BILL TODACHENNIE:· Close enough, good

·6· ·enough.

·7· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· If you could

·8· ·please state your name for the record.

·9· · · · · · · · · · · BILL TODACHENNIE:· Thank you.· My

10· ·name is Bill Todachennie, I'm the, one of the community,

11· ·what do I call, native.

12· · · · · · · · I appreciate your being here tonight.· The

13· ·only thing I'm wondering is are we going to have some

14· ·kind of a follow-up with this meeting tonight, or are we

15· ·just going to have one time and there's nothing going to

16· ·happen afterwards?· I just hope you're not migrating the

17· ·jet flume to New Mexico.· So.

18· · · · · · · · One thing that I wanted to say, that we, I

19· ·personally appreciate the Resolute that have been

20· ·employing the majority of the Navajos to work.· This is

21· ·a major income to the community.

22· · · · · · · · The thing that I'm beginning to worry about

23· ·is that, how much of the impact does it have on

24· ·vegetation on all this flare.· Unfortunately there was

25· ·no study that was done before these were, been fired up
·1· ·and this is biggest impact that I would think so in the

·2· ·community.

·3· · · · · · · · The other thing is the, we have more, not

·4· ·more, but occasionally there are gases that settle. I

·5· ·know this is what we're talking of gas, but your

·6· ·interpreter said, excess oil is burning.· And I'm

·7· ·getting a little bit of confusing myself.· Are we

·8· ·talking about gas or are we talking about oil that we're

·9· ·burning?· I don't think we're burning any oil in the

10· ·area.· So this is on her part a -- I know these

11· ·interpretations are not easy.

12· · · · · · · · The other only thing I want to bring out is

13· ·that the impact that it has on the community members.

14· ·The majority, hopefully not a majority, the younger

15· ·generation has a higher asthma problem.· Whether that

16· ·has any contribute from this, I have no idea.· They seem

17· ·to be having more problem, have problems.· So.

18· · · · · · · · Then again I just want to say thank you for

19· ·being here tonight.

20· · · · · · · · And as it's been expressed earlier, the

21· ·Navajo Nation EPA does nothing for us.· They will not

22· ·even come forward and sit down and talk to us.· So,

23· ·again, I just want to appreciate.

24· · · · · · · · I'm sorry I didn't have very much to say,

25· ·however, I underlined some things that is in one of
·1· ·your, your statement, it says, the "environmental

·2· ·requirements from other federal, tribal or local laws

·3· ·are not included in EPA's proposed PSD permit."· And

·4· ·just slightly concern that you're going to do this on

·5· ·the Navajo Nation, why isn't the tribal law is not

·6· ·included?· That's a concern that I have.

·7· · · · · · · · The other one, it says review the, EPA

·8· ·reviews the computer analyzing the prediction of the

·9· ·effects of the proposal on the PSD.· I'm not really sure

10· ·what it means, but I think this is talking, what it is

11· ·saying is that the damage that they may do, and that

12· ·it's been mentioned, who is going to be doing the

13· ·monitoring?· Who is going to enforce these things?

14· ·That's another thing that we, we are wondering who does

15· ·that enforcement.· And how is it going to be?

16· · · · · · · · And then again I ask you, are there going

17· ·to be any reports being submitted back to us, or is this

18· ·one-way street, that's it?

19· · · · · · · · And again I want to say thank you.

20· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you, Mr.

21· ·Todachennie.· And thank you for your patience tonight,

22· ·too, I know you've been here for quite some time.

23· · · · · · · · · · · JOANNA AUSTIN-MANYGOATS:· I just want

24· ·to make a correction, I've been misinterpreting the word

25· ·"Flare", (speaking Dinè ) is what I said.· And in the
·1· ·definition of what is the Main Flare.· The Main Flare is

·2· ·the existing device used to burn waste gases.

·3· · · · · · · · · · · BILL TODACHENNIE:· Your

·4· ·interpretation is still that that stuff is all burning.

·5· ·That's all it is.

·6· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Yeah, so, again,

·7· ·folks, for the Court Reporter's sake, because this is

·8· ·the point where I was -- again, it's fine if somebody

·9· ·wants to make a comment about that.· I ask that you just

10· ·go ahead and make a comment as a speaker.· Which, Mr.

11· ·Todachennie you did, and we appreciate that.

12· · · · · · · · I have one more Speaker Card.· Ryan Benn.

13· ·Mr. Benn, thank you for being here tonight.

14· · · · · · · · · · · RYAN BENN:· Thank you.· You can start

15· ·that thing now.· There you go.

16· · · · · · · · Now I'm standing up here.

17· · · · · · · · So my first question would be: Where did

18· ·you come in from?

19· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· We came in from

20· ·San Francisco.

21· · · · · · · · · · · RYAN BENN:· San Francisco, I've only

22· ·been there once.

23· · · · · · · · · · · NANISHKA ALBALADEJO:· North Carolina.

24· · · · · · · · · · · RYAN BENN:· North Carolina, been

25· ·there once.
·1· · · · · · · · Same place?

·2· · · · · · · · · · · SHAHEERAH KELLY:· Uh-huh.

·3· · · · · · · · · · · RYAN BENN:· North Carolina, San

·4· ·Franscico.

·5· · · · · · · · And you, sir?

·6· · · · · · · · · · · THE COURT REPORTER:· Montrose,

·7· ·Colorado.

·8· · · · · · · · · · · RYAN BENN:· See, you're closer.· I've

·9· ·never been there, though.

10· · · · · · · · So my question is:· If this goes into

11· ·effect and you go ahead and give them the permit, who's

12· ·going to monitor it?· The monitoring of the flare is

13· ·probably the main concern with people.

14· · · · · · · · As you can see, there's only three or four

15· ·members here from the community.· We did not get the

16· ·information saying, oh, there's going to be a meeting on

17· ·the 20th.· When you were going through the limitations

18· ·on when we can respond to certain things, through the

19· ·mail, through email, I think we passed that time by the

20· ·time you said that.

21· · · · · · · · So my question would be:· Why would we

22· ·trust you as a people when you come over and you tell

23· ·us, this is safe.· This is going to help with the

24· ·business.

25· · · · · · · · He brought, he said they employ a lot of
·1· ·people here.· Which, in actuality, is not true.· Forty

·2· ·percent of the people in this area are unemployed.

·3· ·That's another issue.

·4· · · · · · · · My issue here is:· Who is going to monitor

·5· ·this stuff?· Who's going to look after it?· Are you

·6· ·going to come from North Carolina every week?· A lot of

·7· ·driving, a lot of flying.· I can barely make it to work

·8· ·some days, and I'm nine miles down the road here.

·9· · · · · · · · So when my community members come up here

10· ·and they say they have a fear of what might happen, what

11· ·can happen, because we can't see it being measured.· We

12· ·have a monitoring system sitting out there, we don't

13· ·know· · how often it's checked, how often it's cleaned,

14· ·how often been updated, how often it's been

15· ·maintenanced.· We have no idea.

16· · · · · · · · If you had come, and anyone who knows about

17· ·this, had come to community and said, hey, we have a

18· ·meeting on this date a month ago, then I think this room

19· ·would be filled.· But with the conditions today,

20· ·everything was done really, really quick.· It's just on

21· ·the board, and I said, hey, let's go over there.· And we

22· ·only have four people here from the community.· So when

23· ·we talk, you're not hearing the full story from the

24· ·whole community.· You're hearing four people.

25· · · · · · · · And if you're going to base your decision
·1· ·on that, I really don't think that when the EPA comes

·2· ·out here, whether it's Navajo Nation, whether it's the

·3· ·state, whether it's the federal, whoever, when they come

·4· ·out here we have no trust in them because we don't see

·5· ·you guys.· I don't see none of you.· I've never seen you

·6· ·guys before.

·7· · · · · · · · So a little more information to the

·8· ·community is all that I'm asking for.

·9· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you, Mr.

10· ·Benn.

11· · · · · · · · · · · RYAN BENN:· All right.

12· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you for

13· ·being here tonight.

14· · · · · · · · Yes, sir.

15· · · · · · · · · · · CALVIN THOMAS:· I would just like to

16· ·make a short comment here.

17· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· ·Sure.· If I

18· ·could ask you, sir, if you could just state your name

19· ·for the record, please, we would appreciate it.

20· · · · · · · · · · · CALVIN THOMAS:· My name is Calvin

21· ·Thomas and I'm a resident here in the Aneth area, and I

22· ·do public community as a community member.

23· · · · · · · · So we're talking about air.· Which air are

24· ·we talking about?· To me, the way I listened, we're

25· ·talking about the air up here.· And we're talking about
·1· ·the flare, only the flare, as far as my understanding.

·2· ·So where does the air go?· The air goes everywhere.· On

·3· ·the top surface, or some of them, or even under the

·4· ·cave, or anywhere.

·5· · · · · · · · So a lot of these fumes come up with the

·6· ·air, that oil spill, salt water spill.· You can smell

·7· ·it.· So we're talking about only a flare.· Is that the

·8· ·only one you guys going to be monitor that?

·9· · · · · · · · We need to look deeper into it.· Every

10· ·living thing lives by air.· That's my understanding, the

11· ·way I see it.· Even there's air in the water.· There's

12· ·air in the rock right now.· So what we really need is go

13· ·deeper instead of just talking about flare.· Because we

14· ·have a problem, it's affecting the human life and plant

15· ·life and animal life.

16· · · · · · · · We have no fresh water here.· We can't even

17· ·grow anything out here.· So air is everywhere.· If you

18· ·have an oil spill during the summer, it seeps back out,

19· ·you can smell it.· It gets into the air.

20· · · · · · · · Not only that, also they're injecting the

21· ·CO2.· I've seen it, it's bleeding up in the air.· You

22· ·can smell it miles away when they do that.

23· · · · · · · · So, I mean, everybody can do something

24· ·about it.· You can monitor it, you know.· But my, that's

25· ·the way I understand it, because it's part of my job to
·1· ·help that community.· That everybody mentioned it.

·2· ·We're trying to work with the Navajo Nation, but nothing

·3· ·happens.· Who's going to help us?· Who's going to help

·4· ·out and straighten out this problem that we live in?

·5· ·That's what I have to make a comment on.

·6· · · · · · · · If you really try to help and get some of

·7· ·the Clean Air Act to affect in this area, I'd sure like

·8· ·to see it.· I just don't want this, what we said here,

·9· ·and that reporter over there, and nothing, no response

10· ·back to us.· No report back to us.

11· · · · · · · · So the people, a lot of this community, you

12· ·know, they don't really understand any of this, but they

13· ·really don't know what's written as a legal language.

14· ·They don't understand it.· Some of the hard words, they

15· ·don't understand it.

16· · · · · · · · We did -- good thing you have interpreter

17· ·here, but we like to see more community, how they

18· ·affected.· A lot of them, they're living right near it,

19· ·like Sandoval said, he lives right next to it.· He lives

20· ·in it.· But he stays there because there's nowhere else

21· ·to move to.· We're just in a corner of the reservation.

22· · · · · · · · Some people trying to get higher area so

23· ·they can breathe some fresh air.· But nothing's fresh

24· ·anymore.· Nothing's clean anymore.· It's affecting

25· ·everything.· I'm telling you, it's affecting everything.
·1· ·We have no vegetation.· Even when it starts to rain, you

·2· ·can see the cloud just around us.· There's an open hole

·3· ·right here, a chimney.· That's how it is.

·4· · · · · · · · You have to live here to know what's going

·5· ·on.· You have to sleep here to know what's going on.· In

·6· ·the morning it will affect your, your breathing and your

·7· ·stuffy nose, sometimes itchy eyes.· That's how it's

·8· ·affecting these people here.· So you're only talking

·9· ·about flare, I mean, you can do more than that.

10· · · · · · · · That's what I like to make a comment on.

11· ·Hopefully you guys can do something for us to help us

12· ·out, to protect the air and the environment here where

13· ·we live in.· That's what I like to make a comment on,

14· ·and I thank you.

15· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you, Mr.

16· ·Thomas.· Thank you for being here tonight.

17· · · · · · · · All right, is there anyone else that would

18· ·like to make an additional comment at this point?

19· ·Ma'am.

20· · · · · · · · Ma'am, if you could please state your name

21· ·for the record, we'd appreciate it.

22· · · · · · · · · · · DAISY TODACHEENE:· Good evening, my

23· ·name is Daisy Todacheene.

24· · · · · · · · I live a few hundred yards under the flare.

25· ·It's right next to the Resolute facility.· And my main
·1· ·concern is the odor and the fumes that comes from the

·2· ·flare.· And you can really smell it, and when there's a

·3· ·breeze or windy, the tower gives off some kind of

·4· ·grease-type of chemicals and we can see it on the

·5· ·vehicles that are parked in the residential area.· And

·6· ·we have lights up, too, so it affects that also.

·7· · · · · · · · So I am wondering if later on if there is

·8· ·going to be some kind of a health issue for people that

·9· ·live here.· And like some people that spoke here, no one

10· ·tells us anything like what the chemical really does to,

11· ·to the people and in the health area.· So we need more

12· ·information on that.

13· · · · · · · · That's it.

14· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Thank you for

15· ·being here, Ms. Todacheene, appreciate it.

16· · · · · · · · Anyone else at this point?

17· · · · · · · · There are no speakers at this point in time

18· ·so we're going to go off the record until I actually

19· ·receive another Speaker Card, and then we'll resume the

20· ·hearing.

21· · · · · · · · Thanks again for everyone who gave a

22· ·comment.· And we're off the record.

23· · · · · · · · · · · ·(Off the record from 7:18 p.m. until

24· ·8 o'clock p.m.)

25· · · · · · · · · · · STEVEN L. JAWGIEL:· Folks, we're
·1· ·going to go back on the record.· It's 8 o'clock at

·2· ·night.

·3· · · · · · · · I don't have any additional Speaker Cards,

·4· ·so we are going to conclude tonight's hearing.

·5· · · · · · · · Again, if you want a copy of the

·6· ·transcript, you can go ahead and fill out a

·7· ·registration, a registration form in the back.· And you

·8· ·can find out when the final decision will be made, and

·9· ·also find out how to access the comments, responses,

10· ·EPA's responses to the comments made tonight.

11· · · · · · · · I want to thank everyone for being here

12· ·tonight, and everyone's hospitality.

13· · · · · · · · And we are off on the record.· Thank you.

14· · · · · · · · · · · (Hearing adjourned at 8:01 p.m.)

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·1· · · · · · · · · · ·REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

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·3· · · · · · · · I, Keith Rusk, do hereby certify that

·4· ·the hearing was taken in shorthand by me at the time and

·5· ·place aforesaid and was reduced to typewritten form

·6· ·under my supervision; that the foregoing is a true

·7· ·transcript of the proceeding had.

·8· · · · · · · · My commission expires 3/3/17.

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14· · · · · · · · · · · · ·__________________________________

· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Keith W. Rusk

15· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Court Reporter

· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Notary Public

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